# I have been sentenced to death by my sister



## Zodd (Mar 26, 2007)

> I have been sentenced to death by my sister
> By LAURA ROBERTS
> 
> A cancer victim has accused his sister of condemning him to death by refusing to donate her bone marrow for a life-saving operation.
> ...





On one hand, it's pretty sickening if true. On the other hand, the guy took it public, thus probably burning any bridges he might have had. 

What do you all think of the sister? Is this the whole story?


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## Kira Yamato (Mar 26, 2007)

I don't understand how the sister could be so cold towards her own brother. I read the article and waited for a reason for her behavior and got "she was putting her family first"..but if their no risks involve (other than the usual minimal risk any human being takes when undergoing surgery), then why not help out your brother? 

I seriously thought it was a sister who hated her brother and did it out of spite. Even that horrible excuse would have been better than the reason she gave...

I'm just stunned..a little speechless even. It's her decision in the end but I think it's a bit low class. *ends my rant*


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## Lord Yu (Mar 26, 2007)

He seems Pretty fucked.


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## sikvod00 (Mar 26, 2007)

So the guy not only has to go through the physical and mental anguish of dying, but also the torment of knowing his own blood relative is not willing to save his life? Real nice, sis.


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## sharingan_clan213 (Mar 26, 2007)

what a bit*h
she had a smirk? that means she is glad to see her brother die.


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## kidjutsu (Mar 26, 2007)

That is really cold-blooded.  Seeing that there is relatively few risks I do not see I she would not donate her bone marrow.  Its plain evil, she has literally sentenced her brother to death.  

Worst of all she got a restraining order.  My guess is that the man does not have enough energy to even try to get near his sister.  

That mans sister deserves to burn (smirk)


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## Giovanni Rild (Mar 26, 2007)

Disgusting evil bitch. I would take her disgusting ass with me. He needs a hitman


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## Sky is Over (Mar 26, 2007)

hopoe that woman burns in hell (I definetly know how it feels to have a sibling do some really fucked up shit like that; reminds me of the time I beat the shit out've one of my brother's friends for breaking my 360; and my bother had the odacity to call the police behind my back, smile about it in my face when the cops showed, and still he hasn't apologized for it; and now this summer he plans to move down to texas to try and avoid me and get the last word.)


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## Taleran (Mar 26, 2007)

sharingan_clan213 said:


> what a bit*h
> she had a smirk? that means she is glad to see her brother die.





I agree except the word is spelt


bitch



and its not bad to say.


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## Rangamaru (Mar 26, 2007)

As many of you guys like to write, "we don't know the whole story." For all we know, he raped her when she was young. I hate my brother and I wouldn't let him die--perhaps there is a reason...


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 26, 2007)

It's beyond words to describe how heartless it is to condemn someone to very slow, very painful death when you can change it. 

Fuck her. Seriously.


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## Sakura (Mar 26, 2007)

Hahaha. Hahaha. That's messed up.


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 26, 2007)

Rangamaru said:


> As many of you guys like to write, "we don't know the whole story." For all we know, he raped her when she was young. I hate my brother and I wouldn't let him die--perhaps there is a reason...



Or she could just be that spiteful. Do you have any evidence that says he did, no? Shut the fuck up. We don't know the whole story, that doesn't mean we assume that she isn't a total failure at life when all thinking and rationality points towards that.


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## Casyle (Mar 26, 2007)

*A reason?*

HAH!  There doesn't need to be a reason for a human to be hateful towards another. 

I think I'll thank God tonight that I didn't get that bitch as my sister.


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## Rangamaru (Mar 26, 2007)

That NOS Guy said:


> Or she could just be that spiteful. Do you have any evidence that says he did, no? Shut the fuck up. We don't know the whole story, that doesn't mean we assume that she isn't a total failure at life when all thinking and rationality points towards that.



Do you have any evidence? No, then you shut the fuck up. I don't remember saying anything rude to you, and no, there is no rationality because she never said anything because she obviously doesn't want to get involved.


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## competitionbros (Mar 26, 2007)

Rangamaru said:


> As many of you guys like to write, "we don't know the whole story." For all we know, he raped her when she was young. I hate my brother and I wouldn't let him die--perhaps there is a reason...





yea, same thing i was thinking, short of him raping her, threatening her or her family, beating her or her kids, etc............then there's no reason for this, the guy seemed like he's nice but of course it could just be an act, though i doubt if he was like that his wife/kids would be hell-bent on not letting him die


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## Rangamaru (Mar 26, 2007)

competitionbros said:


> yea, same thing i was thinking, short of him raping her, threatening her or her family, beating her or her kids, etc............then there's no reason for this, the guy seemed like he's nice but of course it could just be an act, though i doubt if he was like that his wife/kids would be hell-bent on not letting him die



Yeah, I wasn't insisting that it had to be rape or some vicious crime, but I'm sure there is alot of us who don't get along with our families for various reasons. There are many of us who don't even know our parents. If some bastard father that hadn't bothered to call me all my life showed up at my door asking for something this serious, I would probably reconsider as well.

also, if he were a nice guy, he wouldn't have brought this into the media. This woman could be seriously hassled--this is not something a normal person would do.


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## EvilMoogle (Mar 26, 2007)

In the sister's defense, donating bone marrow is one of the most painful processes out there (or so I have been told).  There are also some significant infections that can happen (albeit rarely so).

That being said, I can't imagine how anyone could refuse it for a sibling.  I feel there has to be more to her reasonings than she's said.

(Of course, in my defense, I can't imagine how anyone could refuse it for anyone.)

/Registered donor, common-as-spit blood type though.


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## competitionbros (Mar 26, 2007)

well, she agreed to it at first so something must've happened within the year and half- 2 years that would cause her to change her mind


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 26, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> In the sister's defense, donating bone marrow is one of the most painful processes out there (or so I have been told).  There are also some significant infections that can happen (albeit rarely so).
> 
> That being said, I can't imagine how anyone could refuse it for a sibling.  I feel there has to be more to her reasonings than she's said.
> 
> ...



Actually from what I gather the gathering isn't so bad with current tech, a guy on another board I frequent is a med tech and he had this to say:

_Done a few bone marrow aspirations. Can't say I am good at it, however the risk to the patient is minimal. You basically sedate them. As with all sedation it carries the risk of respiratory depression, but we usually monitor their oxygen saturations as a precaution. Then you give local anaesthetic to the site, and then stick a big needle in and take out parts of the marrow. _



			
				Rangamaru said:
			
		

> Do you have any evidence? No, then you shut the fuck up.



_My side doesn't require evidence *asshole*. I can't prove a negative! You're making the claim, *you back it the fuck up*. _



			
				Rangamaru said:
			
		

> I don't remember saying anything rude to you, and no, there is no rationality because she never said anything because she obviously doesn't want to get involved.



Fucking bullshit. She lets her kids play with his kids, she agreed intially to do it, etc. She's a tool, plain and simple. No use defending this cunt when all signs point to her being a waste of resources.


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## Bishop (Mar 26, 2007)

I don't think she is wrong at all, it is her choice and if she doesn't feel comfortable doing it then forget it. You guys talk about him, what about her? Why should she give her marrow up just because they are tied by blood? She simply made a choice and shouldn't be criticized for it.


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## Rangamaru (Mar 26, 2007)

That NOS Guy said:


> _My side doesn't require evidence *asshole*. I can't prove a negative! You're making the claim, *you back it the fuck up*. _


What!? Are you seriously that dumb? Your side does require evidence. Who told you it didn't? You made an assumption just as I did, except I didn't claim mine was true and you did. If you can't prove yours true either you are just as much of an asshole as me. You made the first assumption, so the burden of proof weighs just as heavy on your shoulders.



That NOS Guy said:


> Fucking bullshit. She lets her kids play with his kids, she agreed intially to do it, etc. She's a tool, plain and simple. No use defending this cunt when all signs point to her being a waste of resources.


Fucking bullshit? You speak as if you know them? I played wiht plenty of kids when I was young, does that mean my parents should give them a freaking kidney or something?

all signs point to to what? We only know one side. His side, and it was his side that brought it to the media. Think about it...


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## kidjutsu (Mar 26, 2007)

Rangamaru said:


> As many of you guys like to write, "we don't know the whole story." For all we know, he raped her when she was young. I hate my brother and I wouldn't let him die--perhaps there is a reason...



In other words she is reducing herself to her brothers level.  That is still scum. 

++I think that giving him the bone marrow would be the greater revenge anyways.  If the man has done something to his sister, then the fact that his sister saved his life would just be a chip on his shoulder.  (I know that would make me feel low).


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## Kira Yamato (Mar 26, 2007)

Bishop said:


> I don't think she is wrong at all, it is her choice and if she doesn't feel comfortable doing it then forget it. You guys talk about him, what about her? Why should she give her marrow up just because they are tied by blood? She simply made a choice and shouldn't be criticized for it.



It's a case of public opinion. I can say she's cold or cruel for doing such a thing and it doesn't mean jack at the end of the day, because she made her decision. 

Yes, she made a decision that ultimately will lead to the death of her brother. She has every right to refuse to donate her marrow just like everyone has the right to criticize (or defend) her actions. 

And the replies have been made based on the information we've been given. Do I know what he's done to her in the past? No...it could have been something horrible, and she doesn't feel she owe anything to her brother because of that. But my opinion was based on the limited information given and if she indeed decided not to give the marrow for no apparent reason then that's just sad.


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## Rangamaru (Mar 26, 2007)

kidjutsu said:


> In other words she is reducing herself to her brothers level.  That is still scum.
> 
> ++I think that giving him the bone marrow would be the greater revenge anyways.  If the man has done something to his sister, then the fact that his sister saved his life would just be a chip on his shoulder.  (I know that would make me feel low).



Thanks for replying in a more reasonable way. I agree it is very petty; however, the only argument that I was making was that we don't know any of the circumstances. I guess we can assume no matter the circumstances that she's being a very disgusting person, but still we are all human. As I said, I hate my brother, but I would never let him die if I had anything to say or do about it.


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 26, 2007)

Rangamaru said:


> What!? Are you seriously that dumb? Your side does require evidence.



I'm not making a claim that doesn't already fit the evidence on hand, now am I champ?



Rangamaru said:


> Who told you it didn't?



Basic logic?



Rangamaru said:


> You made an assumption just as I did, except I didn't claim mine was true and you did.



No, I pointed out that even suggesting such things is useless without evidence. I make the assertion that she's a cunt, and given she's condemning someone to death, this is not unfounded.



Rangamaru said:


> If you can't prove yours true either you are just as much of an asshole as me.



What do I have to prove, that she's deplorable? That's a tall order there son. I may have problems proving a woman whose going to be directly responsible for someone withering away is a douchebag. 



Rangamaru said:


> You made the first assumption, so the burden of proof weighs just as heavy on your shoulders.



What is my assumption anyway? That's she's being a douchebag? That's not an assumption given the *evidence* on hand that supports my assertion that she's killing someone for no reason. My assertion fits the evidence, your scenario has no backing. 

Fuck you.





Rangamaru said:


> Fucking bullshit? You speak as if you know them? I played wiht plenty of kids when I was young, does that mean my parents should give them a freaking kidney or something?



Way to strawman asshole. Would a person who was raped let her children play with the rapists children? I don't fucking think so. 

The difference here of course is they're family and there's in all probablity little chance for a match from another donar. There is quite simply no other way. She's killing someone for pettyness. If you're no willing to help a family member of all things (at virtually no risk), why the fuck are you in society? You're a sociopath then.


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## amaya_black_wings (Mar 26, 2007)

that is absolutely sick. what is wrong with her. Family first? how? by making them hate you?


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## Rangamaru (Mar 26, 2007)

That NOS Guy said:


> I'm not making a claim that doesn't already fit the evidence on hand, now am I champ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just go read my posts over again. I've added you to my ignore list. Goodbye and enjoy arguing with someone who gives a damn.


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## Giovanni Rild (Mar 26, 2007)

Bishop said:


> I don't think she is wrong at all, it is her choice and if she doesn't feel comfortable doing it then forget it. You guys talk about him, what about her? Why should she give her marrow up just because they are tied by blood? She simply made a choice and shouldn't be criticized for it.



Her choice doomed someone. She should be criticized for it.


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## Fancy (Mar 26, 2007)

> What!? Are you seriously that dumb? Your side does require evidence. Who told you it didn't? You made an assumption just as I did, except I didn't claim mine was true and you did. If you can't prove yours true either you are just as much of an asshole as me. You made the first assumption, so the burden of proof weighs just as heavy on your shoulders.


I'll give you an example:

A wife says "Have you been cheating on me? And if not, prove it", this is what is going on right now, he's arguing from that rational perspective. He can't prove something that did not happen, assuming that he did not cheat on her.


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 26, 2007)

Rangamaru said:


> Just go read my posts over again. I've added you to my ignore list. Goodbye and enjoy arguing with someone who gives a damn.



Morons have a way of underlining their primary fault in life at the drop a hat.


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## competitionbros (Mar 26, 2007)

That NOS Guy said:


> Morons have a way of underlining their primary fault in life at the drop a hat.





how can you call the guy a moron for looking at the whole picture, if you don't agree with him that's fun but do it in a respectable way not just like "shut the fuck up you stupid as hell what are you talking about"


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## Rangamaru (Mar 26, 2007)

angrywife said:


> I'll give you an example:
> 
> A wife says "Have you been cheating on me? And if not, prove it", this is what is going on right now, he's arguing from that rational perspective. He can't prove something that did not happen, assuming that did not cheat on her.



The only point I was trying to make was that we don't very much about this story; he got pissy and began calling names. I ended it because I realized there was no purpose in arguing with him. In truth, neither of us can prove anything.

Besides, I have thick skin, if he wants to continue fuming about it let him. I rather move on to someone who introduces an argument without insults.


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## Rhaella (Mar 26, 2007)

How horrific. 

It's a pity she's declined to give her side of the story.  I can imagine that something might have happened in the last 3 years to make her change her mind like that.

I really don't trust what the wife said about her, though.  If the woman was deranged enough at that point to attack her and get arrested, a smirk like that could have as easily been a projection of her own feelings about the matter. :S


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 26, 2007)

competitionbros said:


> how can you call the guy a moron for looking at the whole picture, if you don't agree with him that's fun but do it in a respectable way not just like "shut the fuck up you stupid as hell what are you talking about"



Because he _is_ a moron, and I refuse to suffer people knowingly introducing _slander of a dying man_. I don't care what's respectable, I do however care about basic decency, and those who show none of it shall receive none of it as far as I'm concerned. 

What makes you think I'm not looking "at the whole picture" boy? Are you honestly that convinced of the righteousness of your cause that you can't go with the evidence on hand? If you can prove this *isn't* for a petty reason or she's being a total cunt I invite you to prove it. Until then, the survey says she's a failure at life who were it not for my anti-death penalty stance I'd seriously suggest be dragged into the streets and shot like the dog she is.


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## K' (Mar 26, 2007)

Hopefully he gets better.

Cruel sister.


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## competitionbros (Mar 26, 2007)

That NOS Guy said:


> What makes you think I'm not looking "at the whole picture" boy? Are you honestly that convinced of the righteousness of your cause that you can't go with the evidence on hand? If you can prove this *isn't* for a petty reason or she's being a total cunt I invite you to prove it. Until then, the survey says she's a failure at life who were it not for my anti-death penalty stance I'd seriously suggest be dragged into the streets and shot like the dog she is.




did i or Rang say anything along the lines of "I totally sympathize with the sister because the man is obviously a bad guy", no we didn't, we simply said what could be a POSSIBILITY, anything could've happened that makes her say " i don't want to save my brother's life". I'm not saying that something DID happen i'm just saying something MAY have happened


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## Kisame. (Mar 26, 2007)

Pfft its her bone marrow she can do what she wants with it.

and you're not obligated to experience pain for anyone ever


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## Giovanni Rild (Mar 26, 2007)

Kisame said:


> Pfft its her bone marrow she can do what she wants with it.



And we can hate on the evil bitch for doing so.


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## Dionysus (Mar 26, 2007)

That NOS Guy said:


> Until then, the survey says she's a failure at life who were it not for my anti-death penalty stance I'd seriously suggest be dragged into the streets and shot like the dog she is.


What an excellent way to get at her marrow.


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## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

> And we can hate on the evil bitch for doing so.



im going to die because i dont blew all my money at a casino then I found out i need it for surgery

is it my sister's responsiblity to pay for it for me?

And it doesnt matter that they are sister and brother it doesnt mean you have to risk your life to save theirs and undergo immense pain


Say she undergoes the surgery and dies

What then? The guy visits her grave and says thanks pfft


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## Thanos (Mar 27, 2007)

This is horrible. I hope that this man will get better or find a donor, or, his sister will come around and do what is needed of her. It sickens me just thinking of how someone could do such a thing. The fact that donating bone marrow _poses little to no risk at all for the donor_ makes this all the more disgusting.


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## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

> The fact that donating bone marrow _poses little to no risk at all for the donor_



all operations have risks and you think taking something out ur bones has little risk?

hell u can die getting a shot no way surgery has "little risk" thats just something to make people sympathize


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 27, 2007)

competitionbros said:


> did i or Rang say anything along the lines of "I totally sympathize with the sister because the man is obviously a bad guy", no we didn't, we simply said what could be a POSSIBILITY, anything could've happened that makes her say " i don't want to save my brother's life". I'm not saying that something DID happen i'm just saying something MAY have happened



Him faking it is a possibility, does that warrant inculsion? Of course not. You have to have evidence to suggest anything worthy of note into a discussion, and if you have none then _it's slander_. 

She could just be, well, as I've said before a cunt. She could be a religious whackaloon, someone who thinks the surgery will kill her, etc. However, there's nothing to back these claims _so we don't make them_.

A valid possibility must fit the evidence, and suggesting that rape is a viable possibility when _their children play together_ is patently absurd. Once again, do you have any evidence to suggest this is a decent possibility and worthy of note?



			
				Dionysus said:
			
		

> What an excellent way to get at her marrow.



Now that I think about it, if I wanted to be a bastard I could argue she's a terminal headcase of no use to society and thus would be better liquadated for her parts so that other more useful members may go on. Tempting, but nah


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> all operations have risks and you think taking something out ur bones has little risk?



Taking out bones? LOL WHAT.



Kisame said:


> hell u can die getting a shot no way surgery has "little risk" thats just something to make people sympathize



The chance however is very, very small and the amount of good it can do is rather volumous, unless of course you don't consider human life valuable. By this logic no one should ever get surgery. Ever.


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## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

the guy needs to just die in peace.

If god wanted him to live he would make him spontaneously regenerate his bone marrow.




> Taking out bones? LOL WHAT.


read plz there is a preposition in there for a reason



> he chance however is very, very small


doesnt matter how small it still can happen. and its not small at all compared to ur life.

I bet If somene said hey take a random pill out of this 100 pill bottle only one of them can kill you  you wouldnt be so eager to do it



and ppl get surgery when their chances for death is way higher than the chances of living without it.

She doesnt need to worry about death so she doesnt need surgery. He isnt her child.  He isnt young he  lived his life.  THere is no reason for her to help him at all if she doesnt want to.


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## Thanos (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> im going to die because i dont blew all my money at a casino then I found out i need it for surgery
> 
> is it my sister's responsiblity to pay for it for me?
> 
> ...



Do you even know what happens when you donate bone marrow? I dont think you do. Immense pain? Hardly. Visit a doctors office and ask sometime. If you think a few days of mild discomfort at most is worth watching your brother who has several young children, deteriorate and die, then well it says something of your character. For God sakes, its not even surgery. Its closer to getting a blood test or donating blood than surgery.

I have lost several close immediate family members to cancer. If I had the chance to aid them I would have done it without a second thought, regardless of the risk. For this woman, there is no risk save minor discomfort for a day or 2.

"*Marrow donors can expect to feel some soreness in their lower back for a few days or longer. Donors also have reported feeling tired and having some difficulty walking. Most donors are back to their usual routine in a few days. Some may take two to three weeks before they feel completely recovered.

"donors report varying symptoms including headache, bone or muscle pain, nausea, insomnia and fatigue while receiving injections of filgrastim. These effects disappear shortly after collection. During the collection, donors may experience a tingling feeling or chills. These effects go away shortly after donating. When asked about their discomfort, most donors are quick to point out that it was worth it to help save a life, and they would be willing to do it again.*"- From  , The National Marrow Donor program.


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## competitionbros (Mar 27, 2007)

how can you even say we're saying slanderous things when you're talking about having the woman shot?


we need evidence that he's bad? do you have evidence that he's good? do you have evidence the wife really went to the sister? there's no way to know some things so we can only assume and i'm looking at one point of view, there's several, but don't come at my head because i'm thinking differently


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## Fancy (Mar 27, 2007)

Moral arguments. Individuals have different moral standards, and fiber changes as you switch discussions from person to person, it is difficult to reach judgment and conclude that this particular case is naturally supportive in regards to this man.


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## Yamato (Inactive) (Mar 27, 2007)

That NOS Guy said:
			
		

> The chance however is very, very small and the amount of good it can do is rather volumous


Stop posting and go to Bosnia or Iraq to help poor citizens of those countries. Don't worry chances that anything happens to you are very slim, as says the millitary.

It's easy to criticize others. To bad that's her life and her choices. Like it or no, curse her or no. She decided no shall force her to change her decision.

Everyone will die someday, you can't live forever. That's nothing you can change about it. Believe it or no, that's how I think.


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## Thanos (Mar 27, 2007)

angrywife said:


> Moral arguments. Individuals have different moral standards, and fiber changes as you switch discussions from person to person, it is difficult to reach judgment and conclude that this particular case is naturally supportive in regards to this man.



In regards to the evidence posed by this article, there is no grey area. According to the article, these people were on good terms, and then suddenly the sister changed her mind. This makes her a bad person, I don't care what someones views on morality are. However, this is from the information based on the _article_. We have no idea what actually happened in their past, but the article says they were on pretty good terms.


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## Giovanni Rild (Mar 27, 2007)

Yamato said:


> Stop posting and go to Bosnia or Iraq to help poor citizens of those countries. Don't worry chances that anything happens to you are very slim, as says the millitary.
> 
> It's easy to criticize others. To bad that's her life and her choices. Like it or no, curse her or no. She decided no shall force her to change her decision.
> 
> Everyone will die someday, you can't live forever. That's nothing you can change about it. Believe it or no, that's how I think.



And this woman shall deal with the consequences of her inaction.


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## Thanos (Mar 27, 2007)

Yamato said:


> Stop posting and go to Bosnia or Iraq to help poor citizens of those countries. Don't worry chances that anything happens to you are very slim, as says the millitary.
> 
> It's easy to criticize others. To bad that's her life and her choices. Like it or no, curse her or no. She decided no shall force her to change her decision.
> 
> Everyone will die someday, you can't live forever. That's nothing you can change about it. Believe it or no, that's how I think.




If you read the post, he was refuting someone who claimed that she would suffer "immense pain" if she underwent the donation procedure. This is not true. He is right, he doesn't have to stop posting at all.  This is not an opinion, this is medical fact. *NO ONE DIES FROM DONATING BONE MARROW.* I can't stress this enough, where the hell do people get this idea? You have the same chance to die from donating bone marrow as you do from getting vaccinated, or getting a blood test. Which is ZERO since needles used by doctors are sterile. You are tested extensively to see if you are healthy for the procedure. This woman was tested. Save for MINOR DISCOMFORT there is NO RISK AT ALL for this woman.


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## Red (Mar 27, 2007)

She is not obligated to do anything at all.


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 27, 2007)

competitionbros said:


> how can you even say we're saying slanderous things when you're talking about having the woman shot?



I'm being sarcastic. Duh. 



competitionbros said:


> we need evidence that he's bad?



That's the fundamental basis for every decent legal system in existance. Yes.



competitionbros said:


> do you have evidence that he's good?



Well, he's not a hardened criminial or a convicted rapist so....



competitionbros said:


> do you have evidence the wife really went to the sister?



They nearly went to fistacuffs?



competitionbros said:


> there's no way to know some things so we can only assume and i'm looking at one point of view, there's several, but don't come at my head because i'm thinking differently



You're not thinking differently, you're making assumptions without basis. Thinking differently would be arguing a relativist standpoint, you're trying to absolve her of guilt by insinuating that past crimes against her were committed all under the guise of mastabatory exclaimations that "it's a possibility!" without any eveidence in support.



			
				Yamato said:
			
		

> Stop posting and go to Bosnia or Iraq to help poor citizens of those countries. Don't worry chances that anything happens to you are very slim, as says the millitary.



What does this have to do with things? Oh wait, it's a complete depature from the point you halfwit. 



			
				Yamato said:
			
		

> It's easy to criticize others. To bad that's her life and her choices. Like it or no, curse her or no. She decided no shall force her to change her decision.



It's her choice, and I make no move to dispute this, but as others have candidly pointed out it's also our right to point out what a ruthless douchebag she is. 

But what's done is done and we shouldn't try and point out the flaws of someone's behavior even though it kills someone else, right?


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## Giovanni Rild (Mar 27, 2007)

Red said:


> She is not obligated to do anything at all.



There is a such thing as right or wrong. It's dead wrong to let someone die when you can save them.


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## Yamato (Inactive) (Mar 27, 2007)

Magister Rild said:
			
		

> And this woman shall deal with the consequences of her inaction.


Action causes reaction. As easy as that. As far as she got nothing to regret from her personal point of view it was a good decision for her.



			
				Thanos said:
			
		

> NO ONE DIES FROM DONATING BONE MARROW


NO ONE DIES FROM GOING TO BOSNIA OR IRAQ. They just get deadly bullet poisoning. 

Operation was a total success as was claimed by hospital PR. The patient died after it.



			
				That NOS Guy said:
			
		

> It's her choice, and I make no move to dispute this, but as others have candidly pointed out it's also our right to point out what a ruthless douchebag she is.


You've got no right to call her like that. If she would sue you, you would be find guilty.




			
				Thanos said:
			
		

> You have the same chance to die from donating bone marrow as you do from getting vaccinated, or getting a blood test. Which is ZERO since needles used by doctors are sterile.


There are milion of people around the world who were infected with HIV during such simple tasks. HIV is equal to death as far as you don't have millions of USD to perform state of the art therapy. Still so sure about your points? Risk is never equal to zero.


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## Thanos (Mar 27, 2007)

The argument is not whether she is obligated. No one is forcing her, she can do whatever the hell she wants. The argument is whether her decision to not donate has an impact on her character. And from the information we can gather from the article, it is easy to see that since there is no risk to her at all in doing this, and she still refuses to do it and watch her brother die, I can deduce that she is not the greatest person around. Call me old fashioned, but I still believe there are clear distinctions, at least in some situations, between right and wrong.


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## Red (Mar 27, 2007)

Magister Rild said:


> There is a such thing as right or wrong. It's dead wrong to let someone die when you can save them.


I agree. even though the woman is morally wrong no one can force her. The guy is gonna die regardless.




> Moral arguments. Individuals have different moral standards, and fiber changes as you switch discussions from person to person, it is difficult to reach judgment and conclude that this particular case is naturally supportive in regards to this man.


 In other situations not this one. Dont just recite this anytime some brings up morals. Letting someone die is wrong, detestable and despicable.


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## Fancy (Mar 27, 2007)

Thanos said:


> In regards to the evidence posed by this article, there is no grey area. According to the article, these people were on good terms, and then suddenly the sister changed her mind. This makes her a bad person, I don't care what someones views on morality are. However, this is from the information based on the _article_. We have no idea what actually happened in their past, but the article says they were on pretty good terms.


The article also states that they had a "mild" relationship, probably resulting from previous family encounters or just simply not caring of each other. Of course, this could be used to mention that her decision to refuse donations had hardly anything to do with sexual intercourse without her consent, or in shorter terms, rape. I, for one, see this as immoral and unethical, but at the same time someone else might not see as such and point out that this was her decision as a peeve of one "free" citizen.


> In other situations not this one. Dont just recite this anytime some brings up morals. Letting someone die is wrong, detestable and despicable.


I agree, don't get me wrong. She's vile and cruel to do what she has done. But then again, my own morality tells me that.


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## Thanos (Mar 27, 2007)

Yamato said:


> There are milion of people around the world who were infected with HIV during such simple tasks. HIV is equal to death as far as you don't have millions of USD to perform state of the art therapy. Still so sure about your points? Risk is never equal to zero.



According to the article, this woman has already been tested and is a match for her brother. This means that a needle was already stuck inside her, and she already took the effort to risk the oh what, .0001% chance of getting blood disease to see if she was a match. Why can't she do it one more time? Oh, please post a link or example where someone died directly from donating bone marrow, I'm curious. Many of the examples you state of getting HIV from hospital procedures are through blood transfusions, not needles. Since every needle that is used, especially at major hospitals like one where a man who is getting heavy chemotherapy stays at, is STERILE. Can I say zero? Of course not, there is always the .0000000001% chance. The same chance that you or anyone else may get struck by lightning, or hit by a meteor from space.


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## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

> Letting someone die is wrong, detestable and despicable.


your letting millions of kids die all over the world from starvation from not selling the computer you are on and donating everything but ur bare essentials to feed them


> The same chance that you or anyone else may get struck by lightning, or hit by a meteor from space.



ppl get struck by lightning all the time and most get struck more than once O.o


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## Thanos (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> your letting millions of kids die all over the world from starvation from not selling the computer you are on and donating everything but ur bare essentials to feed them



Ah yes, but see he would be risking his life, to a much greater extent than this woman would, if he were to give all his possessions away and live homeless for the rest of his life. The sister risks virtually NOTHING. It is the same risk that you take each day when you step outside the door of your house, seriously. You know, from lightning and meteors.


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## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

*Risks* 
  The risks for any anesthesia are:

Reactions to medications
Problems breathing
 Chemotherapy given prior to bone marrow transplant (conditioning) may cause significant toxicity, such as mouth sores, diarrhea, liver damage, or lung damage. While waiting for bone marrow to grow, the patient is at high risk for infection.
 The major problem with bone marrow transplants -- when the marrow comes from a donor, not the patient -- is . The transplanted healthy bone marrow cells may attack the patient's cells as though they were foreign organisms. In this case, drugs to suppress the immune system must be taken, but this also decreases the body's ability to fight infections.






it just like having aids or cancer  sure the process is low risk after it is not


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 27, 2007)

Yamato said:


> You've got no right to call her like that. If she would sue you, you would be find guilty.



I'm not letting someone _die_ while I can prevent it. If she were to sue me I think you'd be rather hardpressed to find a judge or jury that would convict me for calling someone whose letting another human die worthless. 

Plus, I'm protected by US speech laws


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## Thanos (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> your letting millions of kids die all over the world from starvation from not selling the computer you are on and donating everything but ur bare essentials to feed them
> 
> 
> ppl get struck by lightning all the time and most get struck more than once O.o



Exactly, and please can you name or give me an article where someone died from donating bone marrow? Then count all the examples which detail someone getting killed by lightning. Care to guess which one is easier to find?


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> it just like having aids or cancer  sure the process is low risk after it is not



So, what's the rate of death for donors due to complications? I can assure you, it's quite fucking low.


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## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

freedom of speech doesnt protect libel


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## Thanos (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> *Risks*
> The risks for any anesthesia are:
> 
> Reactions to medications
> ...



Buddy, the risks you posted are for the brother, not the sister. The brother is the one getting chemotherapy. All these risks are potential risks for the PERSON RECEIVING THE BONE MARROW not the one giving it.


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## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

> 2. Depending on the experience of the transplantation team, there is 5-20% death rate associated with the bone marrow transplantation, either from infection, graft rejection (the patient rejects the donor's cells) or acute graft versus host disease (the donor's cells attack the patient's bodily organs/systems).


1/5 chance of dying

thats a fucking lot Link removed



> Buddy, the risks you posted are for the brother, not the sister. The brother is the one getting chemotherapy. All these risks are potential risks for the PERSON RECEIVING THE BONE MARROW not the one giving it.



lol then he got a good chance of dying anyway no need to cry about it


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## Red (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> your letting millions of kids die all over the world from starvation from not selling the computer you are on and donating everything but ur bare essentials to feed them


You assume a lot.

My great grand parents built two schools in the Uba region east of lagos.

I have two uncles, one  owns a volunteer clinic in Lagos while the other owns one in port Harcourt.

My grandfather buys books with his own money to stock libraries all over Imo state.

I have assisted both uncles in working in both clinics.

You fail.


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## Thanos (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> 1/5 chance of dying
> 
> thats a fucking lot Link removed



Yes, and guess who thats for? The BROTHER, the guy getting all that bone marrow, not the one who gets it drawn out.


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> freedom of speech doesnt protect libel



You're not fimiliar with US laws, are you? 

Slander and libel laws are notriously loose over here, and once again I smugly point out that if I were to be sued on these grounds I really, highly, very much doubt that it would be successful. Otherwise I should be enduring dozens of lawsuits. Daily.


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## Giovanni Rild (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> your letting millions of kids die all over the world from starvation from not selling the computer you are on and donating everything but ur bare essentials to feed them
> 
> 
> ppl get struck by lightning all the time and most get struck more than once O.o



Fallacy: Red Herring


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> 1/5 chance of dying
> 
> thats a fucking lot Link removed
> 
> lol then he got a good chance of dying anyway no need to cry about it



80% chance of living even with your stats and he has a near perfect match lol

If you're telling me 80% odds is bad when you have no other option elft you're quite simply lacking a functional brain.


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## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

> Fallacy: Red Herring



failure: rilds nonaborted fetus


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## Red (Mar 27, 2007)

And for the very fact that they are siblings adds an air of cruelty to it.


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## Giovanni Rild (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> failure: rilds nonaborted fetus



Fallacy: Personal Attack


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 27, 2007)

Red said:


> And for the very fact that they are siblings adds an air of cruelty to it.



I think that's the worst thing of it. God help me, me and my brothers don't get along at all. In fact, we border on mutual hatred. I, however have no doubt were a similiar situation to come up for either of us we'd give to each other marrow we needed to survive.


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## X (Mar 27, 2007)

Her brother has 3 kids! All young! She actually expects her sister-in-law to manage it all by her own? What a fucked up sister, I think i would murder her if it was me.


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## Payapaya (Mar 27, 2007)

Well this is a downer. Sad to read some thing like this. I pity that family.


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## FinalDragon13 (Mar 27, 2007)

putting family first?!!? isn't her brother family??  

man all i know is if my sister did something like this to me, i would never forgive her and find a way to haunt her forever after i die.


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## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

> I think i would murder her if it was me.


which is why i wouldnt do it.

if you cant accept them not wanting to do it then they have a good reason not 2.


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## Fenix (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> your letting millions of kids die all over the world from starvation from not selling the computer you are on and donating everything but ur bare essentials to feed them



Who's "you"? If you are gonna sit here and assume everyone is as lazy and apathetic as you think, you are making a huge mistake. 




> ppl get struck by lightning all the time and most get struck more than once O.o



Oh? The thing here is that most of the risks associated with the transplant is on the receiver's side, not the donor's. She has already agreed to be a donor then changed her mind for petty reasons given the information we have in this thread.

I love how you jumped at the "5-20%" quote in a later post and proclaimed it your victory. When you didn't even read it carefully enough

Until some amazing new revelation gets out that gives a perfect explanation on why she would refuse to save her own sibling, this sister is simply one cruel bitch who has, like the article suggested, put a father of 3 on the death row.


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## Casyle (Mar 27, 2007)

*Poor guy...*

I would love to know why his sister is condemning him to death.  Right now it simply seems she's doing it out of spite.  

He doesn't need a lung, liver, or something that, once taken, is gone forever.  Unless you have a particular disease, or I'm missing something, bone marrow replaces itself, it grows back.  

My father and I have a bad relationship; we fight all of the time.  However, I would give him  a lung if he needed it, let alone bone marrow!  Regardless of pain.  Of course, it helps that I'm used to pain. 

All we can do is pray for this guy and hope that either his sister has a change of heart or they find someone else willing to help.
	
	



```

```


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## Death-T (Mar 27, 2007)

*My *sister literally sent me to   death.
___________________________  

I thought you were actually talking about yourself.  



> _your letting millions of kids die all over the world from starvation from not selling the computer you are on and donating everything but ur bare essentials to feed them_


 
The same goes for you,but besides,you can't blame someone for not donating to  every group of people accross the globe in need,the average person has no where near enough money and or items to donate.And these are people we don't even know,we're talking about a sister who won't even bother to save her  brother's life,even one with three kids. :/


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## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

> Who's "you"? If you are gonna sit here and assume everyone is as lazy and apathetic as you think, you are making a huge mistake.



even if they are helping some they could be helping all. if they are spending time on the forum then they arent donating all they can to saving people from dying.


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## Yamato (Inactive) (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:
			
		

> if they are spending time on the forum then they arent donating all they can to saving people from dying.


In fact their "arguments" destroyed my brain cells. 

They sentenced me to death


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## Death-T (Mar 27, 2007)

@ Kisame : Says the one who has over 15,000 post on this forum. :/ Read my last post. Really though,must we live our lives doing nothing but help others ? And it's impossible to help all,and some people need money to take care of themselves and families.


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## Rangamaru (Mar 27, 2007)

Death-T said:


> Says the one who has over 15,000 post on this forum. :/ Read my last post.



but he isn't making the same argument, so that doesn't really matter.


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## Zodd (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> your letting millions of kids die all over the world from starvation from not selling the computer you are on and donating everything but ur bare essentials to feed them



This was a noteworthy comment. For the price of this man's bone marrow transplant, more than one life could be saved. Yet when a tragedy is delivered with an interesting story, it excites more people into indignation. 

We know nothing about either person's past, so anything is pure speculation. This man has had his life, has had children, and lives to a reasonably old age. It makes me wonder if I would have even gotten 10 replies if this article were about how cheap immunizations can save hundreds of thousands. 

Makes you think about humanity.


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## Vicious-chan (Mar 27, 2007)

tranq the sister, do what is needed to save the guy, and then shun the bitch. I hope she rots in the deepest pits of Hell. more proof to me that women lack honor, though sorry if this insults other women, I have my reasons for what I said

Though, I guess it can't be changed if she refuses to change and no one will donate.. survival of the fittest still is a factor for us humans.


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## Miyata Prime (Mar 27, 2007)

Magister Rild said:


> Disgusting evil bitch. I would take her disgusting ass with me. He needs a hitman



Ha, sadly I agree.  Stupid slut.


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## Red (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> even if they are helping some they could be helping all. if they are spending time on the forum then they arent donating all they can to saving people from dying.


you are Foolishness


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## X (Mar 27, 2007)

Hmm, if it wasn't a rare blood type, it would be a little okay, since it was easy to find a donor, but its said its rare, and the sister is being a bitch. Sigh. Not helping your brother knowing that he has 3 kids is quite a sad thing to do. :/


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## sj2k (Mar 27, 2007)

> did i or Rang say anything along the lines of "I totally sympathize with the sister because the man is obviously a bad guy", no we didn't, we simply said what could be a POSSIBILITY, anything could've happened that makes her say " i don't want to save my brother's life". I'm not saying that something DID happen i'm just saying something MAY have happened



Its also possible that they are members of an advanced alien race who are reading the forums right now and will judge humanity based on our replies, and then decide whether or not to give us advanced technology and share the galaxy with us, or kill us all right now.  I am not saying it IS happening, just that its possible.

In fact it is possible that you are a member of that alien species.

Or that I am 



> hell u can die getting a shot no way surgery has "little risk" thats just something to make people sympathize



you can die by going outside your house.  Or you could stay in your house and it could burn down.  By living you are undertaking risk.  Surgery, in terms of activities, has little risk involved.



> we need evidence that he's bad? do you have evidence that he's good? do you have evidence the wife really went to the sister? there's no way to know some things so we can only assume and i'm looking at one point of view, there's several, but don't come at my head because i'm thinking differently



do we have evidence that anybody on this forum outside of you is actually real?  Or are we all part of the matrix...



> Chemotherapy given prior to bone marrow transplant (conditioning) may cause significant toxicity, such as mouth sores, diarrhea, liver damage, or lung damage. While waiting for bone marrow to grow, the patient is at high risk for infection.
> The major problem with bone marrow transplants -- when the marrow comes from a donor, not the patient -- is graft-versus-host disease. The transplanted healthy bone marrow cells may attack the patient's cells as though they were foreign organisms. In this case, drugs to suppress the immune system must be taken, but this also decreases the body's ability to fight infections.



you do realize that is the risk for the person RECIEVING the bone marrow, right?



> 1/5 chance of dying



if he doesn't get it, then its pretty cloes to a 5/5 chance...

My personall oppinion is that while it is her choice, I would do it for anyone on this forum, which is why I am a donor, let alone someone I actually konw.

And its not because I love people on the forum (though I love you) it is becaues I am pointing out I Would do it for a random person.

Gai save me, but I would do it for BI.


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## Zhongda (Mar 27, 2007)

She shouldn't be forced, personally, if i were her i'de tell him to keep on looking all over, and IF at the very end he can't find a doner, i'de do it.


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## GrimaH (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> ppl get struck by lightning all the time and most get struck more than once O.o



Oh sure, but that doesn't stop people from going outdoors.


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## Turnip Girl (Mar 27, 2007)

Wow, a certain auntie is going to end up being hated by her nephews and niece - and rightly so.


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## Amaretti (Mar 27, 2007)

Wow... Cheshire? I live there. Want a should go round and forcefully extract this bone marrow from her? (Fuck, I'll just take the whole bone.)


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## mystictrunks (Mar 27, 2007)

Her body her choice. She could spend the money it costs for the transplant on some kids in a 3rd world country and save like 50 lives.


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## @lk3mizt (Mar 27, 2007)

is it really true?! poor guy.. i can imagine what's going through his mind now...

not pretty i suppose.


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## GrimaH (Mar 27, 2007)

mystictrunks said:


> Her body her choice. She could spend the money it costs for the transplant on some kids in a 3rd world country and save like 50 lives.



I don't think she did. 
But then there's no evidence either way.


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## troublesum-chan (Mar 27, 2007)

even if i hated my sister, if she betrayed me, i dont think i could ever turn my back on her if she needed me like this. 

even if this was my aunt who basically turned her back on us, her family, even though this is a pretty painful procedure, i couldn't just let her die. 

her brother is her family too, whether she likes it or not. i don't know what happened between them to cause her to condemn her brother to death, but this is an extremely petty thing to do. 

I don't know if that smirk was real or imagined, theres a lot i dont know about their circumstances. All i know is that he is going to die, and if its specifically because she could not find it in her heart to help her flesh and blood, then i just don't know what to think about this lady...


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## Turnip Girl (Mar 27, 2007)

mystictrunks said:


> Her body her choice. She could spend the money it costs for the transplant on some kids in a 3rd world country and save like 50 lives.



They'd do the transplant on the NHS, wouldn't they? (I'm not sure about operation costs and grown-up things like that - I still get NHS stuff free, huzzah for full-time education.)

This time I wish the NHS wasn't going to end up saving money.


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## Kimi Sama (Mar 27, 2007)

Hah. At first glance I thought the thread title was about you, Zodd.

Anyway I'm slightly skeptical since the artical doesn't include any quotes from the sister, nor any explanation of her point of view or reasons for refusing the transfer. It's also pretty shady on the details of him 'losing his temper' so I think there is more to this than we are being told.

If it is all true though, that is pretty fucked up. To refuse a transfer even when there is no risk to her own health is amazingly selfish, especialy when she knows for certain he will die and that he's leaving behind a wife and 3 kids. And thats before you even get to the fact it's her own brother.

I hope she eventualy realises what she's doing and changes her mind. If not I figure she deserves cancer herself, so she can find out what she's done.


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## X (Mar 27, 2007)

> is it really true?! poor guy.. i can imagine what's going through his mind now...
> 
> not pretty i suppose.



I bet he's finding a way to kill his sister >


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## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

Zodd said:


> This was a noteworthy comment. For the price of this man's bone marrow transplant, more than one life could be saved. Yet when a tragedy is delivered with an interesting story, it excites more people into indignation.
> 
> We know nothing about either person's past, so anything is pure speculation. This man has had his life, has had children, and lives to a reasonably old age. It makes me wonder if I would have even gotten 10 replies if this article were about how cheap immunizations can save hundreds of thousands.
> 
> Makes you think about humanity.



yeah exactly people cant even see how loaded his story is and forget people's right to choose.

the man is even more selfish than his sister by his demands that she give him his marrow.

instead of crying about it and trying to get people to sympathize with him he should just live out the last of his days with his family and if he gets another donor thats great. But you can't wish for the woman to die because of her choice she has all the right in the world to refuse. Brother or no brother


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## GrimaH (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame if you were the brother you wouldn't feel that way.


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## Gunners (Mar 27, 2007)

Stupid bitch, that is the sameway my grandfather died, well step Grandfather but the first person I had to call grandad so grandpa. Bitch of a sister wanted money to donate bone marrow so he died before shit got sorted out.

People like that disgust me a great deal, if your siblin needs help regardless of past shit you should help them, especially when their life is on the line.


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## @lk3mizt (Mar 27, 2007)

kisame has a point there. Also does GrimaH. The brother was wrong for publicizing the story (maybe he did it so that he could reach out to potential donors) or maybe he did it out of spite. I think the latter is the case. But whatever the issue is, i believe she was in the wrong for refusing to help her brother especially when she knew he had kids.


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> yeah exactly people cant even see how loaded his story is and forget people's right to choose.



I've yet to see anyone seriously demand she be tied to a table and forcibly used as a donar.



Kisame said:


> the man is even more selfish than his sister by his demands that she give him his marrow.



_That's because he's going to fucking die._ This isn't a lung or a heart you moron. Furthermore, the surgery isn't complex, and doesn't take something that isn't replaced rather rapidly.



Kisame said:


> instead of crying about it and trying to get people to sympathize with him he should just live out the last of his days with his family and if he gets another donor thats great. But you can't wish for the woman to die because of her choice she has all the right in the world to refuse. Brother or no brother



I don't know if you're a gigantic dumbass or just a psychopath. I'm honestly awe struck how you can sit here and say she's guilt free for refusing to help someone whose in all likelyhood, going to die. 

It's like people not getting invovled in a public rape. They see it, they can avert the crime, but they do nothing. Do we say that they're criminal for doing so? No. We do however point out their utter cowardice and lack of compassion.


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## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

> Kisame if you were the brother you wouldn't feel that way.


i am a brother and I have a little sister 

And yes im constantly the one helping her out and she is harsh towards me but if I make it to 40 years and have kids and she doesnt want to donate anything towards me Im big enough not to hire a hitman to kill her


ITs the brother's responsibility to be the bigger man



> I don't know if you're a gigantic dumbass or just a psychopath. I'm honestly awe struck how you can sit here and say she's guilt free for refusing to help someone whose in all likelyhood, going to die.
> 
> It's like people not getting invovled in a public rape. They see it, they can avert the crime, but they do nothing. Do we say that they're criminal for doing so? No. We do however point out their utter cowardice and lack of compassion.




i never said she was guilt free im arguing its stupid to say she deserves death for not helping  anyone who says that isnt any better than she is  and the brother cant blame her for not wanting to help people have something called free will and you have to respect their choices


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## ez (Mar 27, 2007)

*"i'm putting my family first "*

honestly I just can't believe she would just let him die...what type of a grudge would she have to hold against him for this to happen? :amazed

I wonder if she'll decide to change her mind


----------



## Shinobikitty (Mar 27, 2007)

All I have to say is I watched 2 people I love die from cancer and my mother almost die and then recover only to still have pain to this day... 

It is the most horrible thing to watch and if I had to travel through hell and back for them I would have... I can't believe someone that would have the power to save someones life would chose not too.

I understand there maybe underlying conflict between the brother and sister but she needs to think of his children who are innocent and will have NO father if he dies. Why would she let children that young go through the loss of their father? Terrible....


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## sj2k (Mar 27, 2007)

> Anyway I'm slightly skeptical since the artical doesn't include any quotes from the sister, nor any explanation of her point of view or reasons for refusing the transfer. It's also pretty shady on the details of him 'losing his temper' so I think there is more to this than we are being told.



Yet, if this story was true, that is what woudl happen as well.  If you were refusing to donate bone marrow to your brother, would you want to be interviewed?  No, because you are doing a horrible thing.


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## Fenix (Mar 27, 2007)

Zodd said:


> This was a noteworthy comment. For the price of this man's bone marrow transplant, more than one life could be saved. Yet when a tragedy is delivered with an interesting story, it excites more people into indignation.
> 
> We know nothing about either person's past, so anything is pure speculation. This man has had his life, has had children, and lives to a reasonably old age. It makes me wonder if I would have even gotten 10 replies if this article were about how cheap immunizations can save hundreds of thousands.
> 
> Makes you think about humanity.



This is a valid argument. However, that is the problem of human beings. It's harder to feel for things we are not familiar or close to. 

If a politician said, "I don't donate to charity because I don't know these kids". He would be trashed to hell by the public. Yet if a friend of your said the same thing at a party, everyone would most likely call him a retard and then forget about it the next day.

Why this story has aroused such interest and response is the simple fact that the people involved are siblings after all. Most people have the ideal that, whether close or not, you should put your family first, because family is the foundation of most people's lives, it's something everyone can relate to. This woman is not doing a simple operation to save her brother's life.


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## Red Viking (Mar 27, 2007)

While the situation is pretty messed up, it's still his sister's right of choice.  Besides, this whole thing makes me wonder just what happened between the two to cause this situation.

On the other hand, the guy taking the story public and trying to guilt trip his sister into forcing a donation...I dunno...it seems like a dick thing to do when you try and force someone to do something, but he is dying so I can't say I'm surprised that he's doing so.


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## sel (Mar 27, 2007)

Condemning her blood relative to death and emotional trauma for months? I dont wanna see how the kids react to Aunty if/when they find out

though ther whole taking it public gives teh impression that we dont know everything...


----------



## Sub-Zero (Mar 27, 2007)

WHAT A BITCH! Think of the children! Geez.. Don't condemn the children for some bad relations that may exist between her and her brother may have.


----------



## sj2k (Mar 27, 2007)

Yes taking it to the public is a low and desperate move.

Wait, why a man who has been given MONTHS to live doing something desperate?

Gee, I wonder


----------



## EvilMoogle (Mar 27, 2007)

sj2k said:


> Yes taking it to the public is a low and desperate move.
> 
> Wait, why a man who has been given MONTHS to live doing something desperate?
> 
> Gee, I wonder



The curious thing is it's likely to have the opposite reaction.  The question is, is he doing it to try to force her to swap positions out of desperation, or just to smear her?

Either way I feel we're missing something here.  Too bad we'll likely never know.


----------



## kimidoll (Mar 27, 2007)

This is fucked up. What a bitch, she won't even save her own brother's life for reasons we'll never know. I take it he did something to her she could never forget, but that still doesn't mean that she shouldn't donate her bone marrow.


----------



## Red Viking (Mar 27, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> Either way I feel we're missing something here.  Too bad we'll likely never know.



Agreed.  There's more to this story.


----------



## Detsu (Mar 27, 2007)

What a sick person


----------



## Disquiet (Mar 27, 2007)

Even speaking as someone who is scared to death of hospitals, surgeries and anything vaguely needle-like (the thought of bone marrow makes me cringe) I can honestly say that if a family member, friend, whatever - no matter how distant, no matter how much they'd pissed me off lately - needed a donation from me to save their life, I'd give it to them.

If she had something resembling a good reason, she'd have said it by now; at the very least, if she had any semblance of a soul, she'd at least let the guy's kids know why she was condemning their father to die needlessly.  What a huge cow.


----------



## Aman (Mar 27, 2007)

Man, that's evil.


----------



## Ryo_nyanko (Mar 27, 2007)

Wow, I hope this isn't fully true...

Eh...


----------



## GrimaH (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> i am a brother and I have a little sister
> 
> And yes im constantly the one helping her out and she is harsh towards me but if I make it to 40 years and have kids and she doesnt want to donate anything towards me Im big enough not to hire a hitman to kill her
> 
> ...



And die? I don't know how noble you are or how trivial life is to you, but I'd do anything to be able to live. I believe many other people are like me, and they aren't cowards either. It's not wrong to treasure your own life over having an ego.



Kisame said:


> i never said she was guilt free im arguing its stupid to say she deserves death for not helping  anyone who says that isnt any better than she is  and the brother cant blame her for not wanting to help people have something called free will and you have to respect their choices



It IS stupid to say she deserves death. But it's also stupid to say she hasn't done anything wrong either (I know, you haven't said she was guilt free). She has made an extremely selfish decision that cost a life.
Let's just picture you having leukaemia and you're gonna die in a few months. I'm the only one compatible donor and I agree to it. Then when it comes to the crunch I suddenly do an about-turn and say, "no I don't wanna do it, your life isn't worth the few weeks of discomfort I might have", in the process completely destroying that bright flame of hope that you'll stay alive. Let's see you respect that decision.
I haven't even gotten to how it must pain the man even more so because she's his goddamn blood-related sister.


----------



## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

> And die? I don't know how noble you are or how trivial life is to you, but I'd do anything to be able to live. I believe many other people are like me, and they aren't cowards either. It's not wrong to treasure your own life over having an ego.



i wouldnt kill her. thats just idiotic. I dont see how someone not wanting to help you warrants their death O.o



> It IS stupid to say she deserves death. But it's also stupid to say she hasn't done anything wrong either (I know, you haven't said she was guilt free). She has made an extremely selfish decision that cost a life.



and thats her choice she is completely free to make.



> Let's just picture you having leukaemia and you're gonna die in a few months. I'm the only one compatible donor and I agree to it. Then when it comes to the crunch I suddenly do an about-turn and say, "no I don't wanna do it, your life isn't worth the few weeks of discomfort I might have", in the process completely destroying that bright flame of hope that you'll stay alive. Let's see you respect that decision.



I would be angry thats the normal reaction but I can clearly respect someone's decision to make it when im not under severe stress like imminent death


> haven't even gotten to how it must pain the man even more so because she's his goddamn blood-related sister.


as bad as the woman for him putting her out like that. He should respect her answer and search for a new donor without trying publicizing her decision like that. Thats the respectful thing to do. IF he did sttuff like that all the time no wonder she isn't helping him.


----------



## Byakuya (Mar 27, 2007)

What the hell is wrong with that woman -.-


----------



## That NOS Guy (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> i never said she was guilt free im arguing its stupid to say she deserves death for not helping  anyone who says that isnt any better than she is  and the brother cant blame her for not wanting to help people have something called free will and you have to respect their choices



It's fortunate that no one has seriously sugested she die, so who are you arguing exactly? 

This isn't even funny anymore. Should I respect the afroementioned person who shys away from helping a man being beaten, just because he made the choice of his own free will? Should I respect the people who are inflicting the beating because they made the choice of their own free will?

Free will is not a pass from judgement, rather it means criticism becomes more important since we must determine how actions affect others around us. In this case, it's costing someone the ultimate penalty because no legtimate concern. The fact that we're not calling for her serious dismemberment and use is proof enough we are respecting her choice, vile as it may be. 

Why should he be "a big man" and accept death when there's a chance he can go on living? There's nothing after this mate. Nothing.


----------



## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

> Why should he be "a big man" and accept death when there's a chance he can go on living? There's nothing after this mate. Nothing.




There is no use in crying for something that isnt yours. It's obvious she doesnt want to help and she has no need to so he him complaining isn't helping his situation at all. It twould be more useful to try and find anotther donor or respect his sister's decision and hope she came around rather than go put her out like that then still expect her to help


----------



## Kimi Sama (Mar 27, 2007)

Kisame said:


> There is no use in crying for something that isnt yours. It's obvious she doesnt want to help and she has no need to so he him complaining isn't helping his situation at all. It twould be more useful to try and find anotther donor or respect his sister's decision and hope she came around rather than go put her out like that then still expect her to help



Were you not paying attention to the part where he has an extremely rare tissue type and almost no chance to find another donor, and mere months, at best, to live?

If she doesn't help him, he _will_ die.

But you're right. Real men face certain death without complaining! No need to be such a wimp about it.


----------



## Robotkiller (Mar 27, 2007)

That's one cold hearted bitch.


----------



## Ifurita's Fan (Mar 27, 2007)

Would I do it for my brother(donate marrow)? Yeah...absolutely!

We have a pretty okay relationship... and I don't have kids.

No problem. 

However, the only side that was apparently given voice in this article is the voice of the dying man, his wife, and some side comments from their children. 

You don't hear anything about the woman who would have to actually give the marrow, do you?

That's just bad and sensationalistic journalism. 

It's basically saying that it's her "obligation" to do it... that her wants, risks, and past have no baring on her choice... that she should just shut up and pump out the marrow and be happy about it. No say in what happens with her own body. 

And while I've read a bunch of people saying there's little to no risk... there is a risk, minimal yes, but a risk... and if you read the actual article, she appears to be unmarried, and has a child. 

I'm not advocating her choice, just saying, the article doesn't tell a full story, nor does it talk about her health, or whether or not she has any preexisting conditions that raise her risk. 

She could well have a weak immune system already... and the removal of marrow could place her in a high risk bracket. 

We just don't know... there are too many gaps. 

But, as the sole source of income for her child, she has to make a choice.

The thing to remember is this... if you were made to choose, to risk potential death for your brother (A low likelyhood but still a risk), possibly leaving your child parentless and alone in the world, or let your brother die but be there for your child... which would you choose?

minimal risk != no risk.

There is risk in any major surgical operation.

Would I do it for my brother? Yeah... and like I said, I don't have kids

If I had kids and was single... Ummmm... that's a toughy.


----------



## GrimaH (Mar 27, 2007)

As aforementioned, the risk is as big as getting in an accident while outdoors. That doesn't mean we all stay at home forever, and not only because we are also prone to the risk of electrocution, a fall leading to a fractured skull, or a freak accident with knives.
It's stupid to be talking about immune systems because donating a marrow doesn't harm the immune system.
There are too many gaps however, but until some more info pops up that is very much in favour of the woman, she's a bitch to me.
edit: Oh, and he's got a wife AND three kids. And he's DEFINITELY gonna die if he doesn't get her to change her mind after some more weeks.


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## Kisame. (Mar 27, 2007)

> It's stupid to be talking about immune systems because donating a marrow doesn't harm the immune system.




it takes weeks for the marrow to recover leaving the donor with siginicantly lower t-cell counts


----------



## Ifurita's Fan (Mar 27, 2007)

GrimaH said:


> As aforementioned, the risk is as big as getting in an accident while outdoors. That doesn't mean we all stay at home forever, and not only because we are also prone to the risk of electrocution, a fall leading to a fractured skull, or a freak accident with knives.
> It's stupid to be talking about immune systems because donating a marrow doesn't harm the immune system.


Actually... no, it isn't. As was mentioned earlier, the removal of bone marrow from a donor puts that donor (for a time) at greater risk for infections and disease.

You do know that bone marrow does produce white blood cells too... not just red blood cells...right?

You know... those things that fight off foreign matter in your body.



> There are too many gaps however, but until some more info pops up that is very much in favour of the woman, she's a bitch to me.
> edit: Oh, and he's got a wife AND three kids. And he's DEFINITELY gonna die if he doesn't get her to change her mind after some more weeks.



And she's got a child as well... they live at a home and with her business partner where they run a private education business (a private tutor or home school type thing it sounds like).


----------



## Denimjo (Mar 27, 2007)

That NOS Guy said:


> Or she could just be that spiteful. Do you have any evidence that says he did, no? Shut the fuck up. We don't know the whole story, that doesn't mean we assume that she isn't a total failure at life when all thinking and rationality points towards that.



Or she could have a _very valid reason_ for not choosing to go through with the procedure. Why don't *you *shut the fuck up? No one (not even _your own family_) is obligated to donate anything; that's why it's called a *donation*. His sister didn't give him leukemia, so she's "sentencing him" to absolutely nothing.

I am appalled not at the sister's actions, but her brother and his family. Do they honestly think that harassing the woman and attempting to use emotional blackmail is going to convince her to change her mind? That's _sickening_. The brother and his family have this disgusting sense of self-entitlement to them that almost makes me hope he dies sooner rather than later. You treat your own sister with such disrespect and condemnation? Why the hell should she help you _now_, you cowardly little shit? Why are your children's father more important than your niece/nephew's mother? Lord...I just can't believe that some people feel entitled to harvest their families's bodies for their own benefit.


----------



## thedisturbedone (Mar 27, 2007)

I understand what you're saying, but would you want to die leaving your wife to take care of three very young children?


----------



## Denimjo (Mar 27, 2007)

thedisturbedone said:


> I understand what you're saying, but would you want to die leaving your wife to take care of three very young children?



No; however, there comes a point where trying to *force *someone to do something they don't want to becomes extremely immoral. Perhaps his sister doesn't want to risk complications ensuing from the surgery that would put her children in a position where their mother may die (it may not be likely, but it is possible). Why exactly is *his *life and his children more important than *hers*? Reasoning be damned;_ no one_ should be allowed to demand that someone put their own health at risk for their benefit, not even family.

To use an example (that's not perfect, so bear with me): it's like trying to force a woman to bear a child that she doesn't want. If she gets an abortion like she wants, the fetus will die. But if the boyfriend gets what he wants, the child will live, but it's mother will resent it's very existence because his mom was forced to have him/her. 

I don't think forcing someone to put their body at risk is very moral, no matter _what _the reason. It's sad that he's got leukemia, but his sister didn't give it to him, so he shouldn't be blaming her for 'killing him.' I agree with the previous poster that said that this sort of incident will prevent some people from registering to be a donor. It would imply that by putting yourself on the register you are obligating yourself to donate your marrow and you cannot change your mind later (regardless of any reason such as you now have a family or whatnot).


----------



## That NOS Guy (Mar 27, 2007)

Denimjo said:


> Or she could have a _very valid reason_ for not choosing to go through with the procedure. Why don't *you *shut the fuck up? No one (not even _your own family_) is obligated to donate anything; that's why it's called a *donation*. His sister didn't give him leukemia, so she's "sentencing him" to absolutely nothing.



She has such an incredibly valid reason she won't tell anyone. 

You're a stupid twat, you know that? Don't like the word "sentencing" then? Alright, how about "sealed", "doomed", etc? If you don't think there's a moral obligation to try and save someone's life, especially that of a family member you're insane.



Denimjo said:


> I am appalled not at the sister's actions, but her brother and his family. Do they honestly think that harassing the woman and attempting to use emotional blackmail is going to convince her to change her mind? That's _sickening_. The brother and his family have this disgusting sense of self-entitlement to them that almost makes me hope he dies sooner rather than later. You treat your own sister with such disrespect and condemnation? Why the hell should she help you _now_, you cowardly little shit? Why are your children's father more important than your niece/nephew's mother? Lord...I just can't believe that some people feel entitled to harvest their families's bodies for their own benefit.



How dare they want the father to live. _How dare they._ She deserves it quite frankly. Really, it's not like she's giving a lung or a kidney.


----------



## EXhack (Mar 27, 2007)

You can't force anyone to donate organs or tissues... on the other hand her apathy is unbelievable.


----------



## Thanos (Mar 27, 2007)

Yamato said:


> In fact their "arguments" destroyed my brain cells.
> 
> They sentenced me to death



Arguments? You said: 

*"Stop posting and go to Bosnia or Iraq to help poor citizens of those countries. Don't worry chances that anything happens to you are very slim, as says the millitary.

It's easy to criticize others. To bad that's her life and her choices. Like it or no, curse her or no. She decided no shall force her to change her decision.

Everyone will die someday, you can't live forever. That's nothing you can change about it. Believe it or no, that's how I think."*

You also said: 

"*There are milion of people around the world who were infected with HIV during such simple tasks. HIV is equal to death as far as you don't have millions of USD to perform state of the art therapy. Still so sure about your points? Risk is never equal to zero.*"

You made the rather stupid assumption that the chance of dying from *donating bone marrow*, a subject by the way, which several people in this thread have no knowledge on at all, was equal in risk to going and helping out in third world countries which are experiencing civil wars (Iraq). There is no argument here, you are wrong in this statement. I can't stress this enough. _All of the risk is on the person receiving the bone marrow._ The brother has a FAR higher chance of dying from the procedure, due to his body reacting unfavorably to his sister's marrow. His sister on the other hand, if she donates, will have mild discomfort anywhere from a few days to a week at most. Oh and heres the big part. _His sister was already tested to see if she was healthy for the procedure, since they already know she is a match, and she initially agreed to donate._ I'd take mild discomfort over someone dying any day of the week, thanks.

Its so bloody easy to find info on this subject, I'm not even going to bother posting a million sources. People should make the effort to read about it if they want to form opinions of it. 







buy viagra

I agree that this woman has a choice, everyone has choices. That NOS guy was right in saying that what this woman is doing, is essentially watching someone die when she has a chance to help, with minimal to no risk on herself. Bottom line is, she has a choice. Does her choice of not donating make her a bad person? From the info we could get from the article, yes, yes it does.


----------



## Ifurita's Fan (Mar 27, 2007)

Just to point out the risks the woman might have to take. 

During the lead up to extraction, she would be taking Fligrastim or Sargramostim. Which are colony stimulating drugs (they increase the body's growth of marrow. 

other than alergies to them (which can induce allergic shock)
for Pregnancy
 _Filgrastim-_ In studies in rabbits,  filgrastim did not cause birth defects but did cause internal defects, a decrease  in average weight, and death of the fetus at high doses.
 _Sargramostim-_ Studies on birth defects  have not been done in animals.
And they both create Immune system problems, inflammation, increase risk of heart rhythm problems, retention of water around the heart, it can also do organ and tissue damage if you have Kidney disease, liver disease, or lung disease. If you are predisposed toward leukemia or have leukemia it may worsen the condition or increase your risk. 

That's the thing... just like blood donation, they never tell you all the risks because if they did you'd be less likely to help. 

Only by looking up the drugs used yourself do you actually learn the whole risk. 

Just like Steroids... a doctor will tell you... this steroid injection will help you heal faster or help with this problem or that... they don't frequently tell you that that same shot can trigger diabetes if you are predisposed to it. Sure it might be transitory... but there's a chance it won't be. You could end up taking insulin for the rest of your life because the doctor wanted you to heal quicker. 

And Thanos... like I said... I disagree with her stance... a little risk is what you do for a close sibling. But it's still HER risk.. and she has to also weigh the fate of her child if she dies. 

Even you said it.. little to no risk... LITTLE does not equal none. 

If she dies, should her brother take responsibility for her child? If he dies too, should the wife.. because the sister risked her life to save her husband?


----------



## sikvod00 (Mar 27, 2007)

I really hope that smirk she gave is code for "It's very sad, but I can't undergo surgery for someone who anally raped me since I was seven. Oh, and by the way, we aren't actually blood-related, my folks just found him on the street kicking homeless people."

Maybe the statement "I am putting my family first" is actually a euphemism for "Stop beating my kids when they come to visit you".


----------



## GrimaH (Mar 27, 2007)

Not if he dies, 'cause he will die, without his sister's marrow.



Thanos said:


> _All of the risk is on the person receiving the bone marrow._ The brother has a FAR higher chance of dying from the procedure, due to his body reacting unfavorably to his sister's marrow. His sister on the other hand, if she donates, will have mild discomfort anywhere from a few days to a week at most. Oh and heres the big part. _His sister was already tested to see if she was healthy for the procedure, since they already know she is a match, and she initially agreed to donate._ I'd take mild discomfort over someone dying any day of the week, thanks.



Read this, Ifurita's Fan. Eat this.
And please show proof that a donor has died from donating a marrow.
And fuck those risks. Hamburger increases your risk of heart attack, and people eat that shit all the time.

@sikvod00: You hope.


----------



## Ifurita's Fan (Mar 27, 2007)

GrimaH said:


> Read this, Ifurita's Fan. Eat this.



Eat what? 



> And please show proof that a donor has died from donating a marrow.


Look... if noone died during any of the trials, or there was no risk from the drug, they would say (because they could) that NO RISK existed. But since they don't say that.. that implies historically that risks exist. Hell, are you aware that just being put under anesthesia can kill you? Your body can have an adverse reaction and go into depression and die. 

But, the fact that they know that it increases the risk of an infection and those other diseases is proof that risks exist...that's called a medical proceedure history, it's where doctors document all the various complications that develop after a proceedure it done and submit them to the AMA or whatever counterpart exists in your nation. They tabulate the results and note trends, like increased susceptibility to infection. Then there's the description of what the drug I mentioned does. That's why the FDA has drug tests... to determine what the side effects are of drugs. If there are none... it says none... if there are some... they have to list them. Which I did. Go google the drug name.



> And fuck those risks. Hamburger increases your risk of heart attack, and people eat that shit all the time.


Hey... maybe *you* will volunteer to adopt her children from her and raise them as your own if she gets an infection and dies from donating, giving your written word in contract form that you'll provide for all their needs, including college and private schools before then.

I mean it's only a small risk... right?


----------



## JeffStudios (Mar 27, 2007)

What a bitch.


----------



## Thanos (Mar 27, 2007)

Ifurita's Fan said:


> Just to point out the risks the woman might have to take.
> 
> During the lead up to extraction, she would be taking Fligrastim or Sargramostim. Which are colony stimulating drugs (they increase the body's growth of marrow.
> 
> ...



There is risk with everything a person does. Heres the situation. The risk of dying from donating bone marrow is _so small_, that this woman takes a much larger risk of dying each day she steps out of her house or drives her car.

There is probably some underlying issue she has with her brother that the article isn't telling us about. I don't buy that she is "doing it for her family". Regardless of her hate for her brother, she should think of the 3 young kids that he would be leaving behind should he not get a donor for a transplant.


----------



## Ifurita's Fan (Mar 27, 2007)

Look, I know I'm not sounding all that sympathetic here... and that's not my intention. I'll prolly get neg repped for pointing out the risks I'm pointing out... Because they're inconvienient and detract from the rightous pulpit bashing that's going on. 

But all I'm doing is pointing out some sad truths... that life isn't fair, and that sometimes people that do good deeds can die doing them. But risks exist. 
She could donate, get an infection, have it go crazy on her (there's a lot of superbugs showing up in hospitals world wide that are nearly completely resistant to antibiotics) and lose a limb or even her life. It's unlikely, but possible.

But regardless of all the risks...I agree... she's not a good person if she isn't willing to accept a little risk to do a good deed for her own brother.

You can bet your life that if I was going to give it, that I'd want to learn everything I could about the process, but I'd still do it.

But like has been said... we don't know much about her side of the story. Maybe she's got a damn good reason for not doing it. Then again she might NOT have a reason at all.


----------



## Ifurita's Fan (Mar 27, 2007)

Thanos said:


> There is risk with everything a person does. Heres the situation. The risk of dying from donating bone marrow is _so small_, that this woman takes a much larger risk of dying each day she steps out of her house or drives her car.


Right... but it's an additional risk that you otherwise would not take. 

If you buy two lottery tickets, your chances of winning have gone up infintisimally, but they do increase. 

I'm simply pointing out that there IS a risk. It's not riskless. 

Is it an excuse for her. No... but pretending a risk is non existant is not being honest.


> There is probably some underlying issue she has with her brother that the article isn't telling us about. I don't buy that she is "doing it for her family". Regardless of her hate for her brother, she should think of the 3 young kids that he would be leaving behind should he not get a donor for a transplant.




Agreed, about the underlaying issue.
Who knows what evil may lurk on either side. She could be a total bitch... or he might be a manipulative and horrific bastard that made her life hell. 
We just don't know. And until she either explains her stance, we'll never know... because if he is a bad person... he's certainly not gonna come clean on it and admit it.


----------



## Zodd (Mar 27, 2007)

Something that isn't quite clear in my excerpt is that she declined to comment. It sounds like the paper tried to talk with her and she declined. We can't say whether there is or is not an underlying issue. All we know is that she wants to be left alone. 

My question is this: *To be matched as a donor, didn't she have to give a blood sample for that purpose? So, why did she give the blood sample and then refuse to donate? * Very curious.


----------



## Zeroleonx (Mar 27, 2007)

That's messed up.


----------



## Gamabunta (Mar 27, 2007)

chop her arm off an drink the marrow!


----------



## Shinobi Mugen (Mar 27, 2007)

Sounds like the perfect murder...


----------



## Thanos (Mar 27, 2007)

Zodd said:


> Something that isn't quite clear in my excerpt is that she declined to comment. It sounds like the paper tried to talk with her and she declined. We can't say whether there is or is not an underlying issue. All we know is that she wants to be left alone.
> 
> My question is this: *To be matched as a donor, didn't she have to give a blood sample for that purpose? So, why did she give the blood sample and then refuse to donate? * Very curious.



She not only had to give a blood sample, but she had to be checked if she was healthy enough to donate. Which, since apparently she agreed to donate initially, she is. This is what both perplexes and angers me.


----------



## sj2k (Mar 28, 2007)

> To be matched as a donor, didn't she have to give a blood sample for that purpose? So, why did she give the blood sample and then refuse to donate?



QFT

she not only underwent a test, she was approved, and she had agreed.

Then she suddenly changes her mind

This kind of makes me think the whole something when they were younger happend thing isn't true, she would have just said no then.

And yes, there is a risk you could die doing this.

My guess, odds of getting killed walking in NYC after dark are ALOT higher though.


----------



## Dionysus (Mar 28, 2007)

This reminds me of season 5 of _Curb Your Enthusiasm_, but not so funny.


----------



## dummy plug (Mar 28, 2007)

i would have donated my bone marrow toa stranger who needs it, knowing that it could save his/her life...now why cant she do it to her own brother?


----------



## Denimjo (Mar 28, 2007)

That NOS Guy said:


> She has such an incredibly valid reason she won't tell anyone.


She said she did not want to donate. Her reasons are _no one else's business_. She doesn't have to *justify *anything to anyone else. She may not be a saint of familial love, but it's _her _decision. 



> You're a stupid twat, you know that? Don't like the word "sentencing" then? Alright, how about "sealed", "doomed", etc? If you don't think there's a moral obligation to try and save someone's life, especially that of a family member you're insane.


None of those words apply. She didn't give him leukemia, and it's not her obligation to save anyone, even her own family. If donating one's marrow was a requirement, people would be forced to register for it as soon as they were medically able. She is under no obligation, moral or otherwise, to undergo a procedure that she doesn't wish to.  



> How dare they want the father to live. _How dare they._ She deserves it quite frankly. Really, it's not like she's giving a lung or a kidney.


You're right. On that same tack, how *dare *she not want to risk her health in order to ensure that _her _children's mother stays healthy for their sake. How *dare *she think of herself and _her own children!_ That evil, evil bitch! God knows *her *children aren't nearly as worthy of having a healthy parent as her brother's are. She should just fry in hell! [/sarcasm]

Look, could we try to keep the name-calling out of this? It is possible to strongly disagree with someone without resorting to petty name-calling. I apologise for responding to your immature cursing in kind and hope that you will follow suit.


dummy plug said:


> i would have donated my bone marrow toa stranger who needs it, knowing that it could save his/her life...now why cant she do it to her own brother?



There could be many reasons: medical complications as a result; perhaps her brother and her have a nasty past and she doesn't really want to put her own life on the line for him; maybe she talked it over with her children and they asked her not to; maybe she just got the last minute jitters and would have changed her mind again later on (which is totally not going to happen now that he's decided to try to make her out to look like this horrible monster in the public eye).

After seeing how this man and his family are acting towards her in public, I'm very glad she chose not to do the transplant. In my view, one person's desire to live should not come at the expense of someone who doesn't want to risk their health and body. This man is trying to force his sister into this, and that's just disgusting to me.


sj2k said:


> QFT
> she not only underwent a test, she was approved, and she had agreed.
> 
> Then she suddenly changes her mind
> ...



This actually makes me think that she wasn't told the whole truth about what sort of risks this kind of thing can entail and that she learned all that information (that Ifurita's Fan illustrated so nicely) on her own and decided against it. Also, I'm wondering if she talked this over with her children, they asked her not to do it because they were afraid she would get sick from it, asked her not to do it, and she won't tell anyone this because she doesn't want her kids to be the heavy. But that's just my thought. *shrugs*


----------



## Goom (Mar 28, 2007)

Did you die yet (didnt read anything in this thread except title)???


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## TreeofSephri (Mar 28, 2007)

Its her bone marrow.


----------



## That NOS Guy (Mar 28, 2007)

Denimjo said:


> She said she did not want to donate. Her reasons are _no one else's business_. She doesn't have to *justify *anything to anyone else. She may not be a saint of familial love, but it's _her _decision.



It's called good form lad. You should have to justify any choice you do, especially when it functionally means someone is going to die. Of course, her lack of justification strikes against it being something legitimate.



Denimjo said:


> None of those words apply. She didn't give him leukemia, and it's not her obligation to save anyone, even her own family.



I'm honestly aghast at your ethics. If you were any sort of humanist and/or decent person you wouldn't be arguing that _there's no obligation to save someone else when they're fuctionally no risk involved_. I wonder what it's like to be 14 and a complete tard.

But let's have fun with definations!

-

_To condemn to ruination or *death*_

 -

_To establish or determine irrevocably:_



Denimjo said:


> If donating one's marrow was a requirement, people would be forced to register for it as soon as they were medically able. She is under no obligation, moral or otherwise, to undergo a procedure that she doesn't wish to.



Basic compasion and ethics is different then legal obligation. There's still the funny tidbit that she changed her mind. She agreed to it first, then changed her mind. If that doesn't put you under an ethical obligation I don't know what does.



Denimjo said:


> You're right. On that same tack, how *dare *she not want to risk her health in order to ensure that _her _children's mother stays healthy for their sake. How *dare *she think of herself and _her own children!_ That evil, evil bitch! God knows *her *children aren't nearly as worthy of having a healthy parent as her brother's are. She should just fry in hell! [/sarcasm]



As people have been fearmongering over absolutely nothing all throughout this thread, I'm still somewhat curious as to where her dramatic risk of health comes from. Going by the same logic, she shouldn't leave the house since that dramatically increases her risks of death. Why don't you fucktards come out with it and just acknowledge that the surgery isn't as risky as you say it is, or is lying to ingrained in your lifestyle?



Denimjo said:


> Look, could we try to keep the name-calling out of this? It is possible to strongly disagree with someone without resorting to petty name-calling. I apologise for responding to your immature cursing in kind and hope that you will follow suit.



Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. 



Denimjo said:


> There could be many reasons: medical complications as a result; perhaps her brother and her have a nasty past and she doesn't really want to put her own life on the line for him;



Why hasn't this become publically announced, furthermore, if there were a legitimate medical reason why wasn't it mentioned? Even more to the fact, with knowledge of these alleged complications did she agree to be a donor? 



Denimjo said:


> maybe she talked it over with her children and they asked her not to;



Her kids are around the same age, if not younger then the donors. If you're going off the medical opinion of a nine year-old you have more then a few problems.



Denimjo said:


> maybe she just got the last minute jitters and would have changed her mind again later on (which is totally not going to happen now that he's decided to try to make her out to look like this horrible monster in the public eye).



He doesn't have to try, the facts speak for themselves. Last minute jittters over what, being stuck with a needle? Has she ever gone to the doctors before? 

Even then, why hasn't this been said? 



Denimjo said:


> After seeing how this man and his family are acting towards her in public, I'm very glad she chose not to do the transplant. In my view, one person's desire to live should not come at the expense of someone who doesn't want to risk their health and body. This man is trying to force his sister into this, and that's just disgusting to me.



You are either ignorant or lying if you missed the part where she intially agreed. You're making it out like it's some sort of smeer campaign against someone who had a legitimate reason when it's precisely the opposite. She agreed to do it in the first place, usually when someone damns you to dying a slow and tortourous death you don't let that go and you do anything you can do to let the story be known. They're desperate for a very good reason. This isn't a petty dispute, this is literally life and death on the line. Your utter lack of empathy is disturbing.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Mar 28, 2007)

Denimjo said:


> She said she did not want to donate. Her reasons are _no one else's business_. She doesn't have to *justify *anything to anyone else. She may not be a saint of familial love, but it's _her _decision.



When your decision kills someone, especially a family member you DO owe justification to someone, at the very least the rest of your family as to why you're letting them die.

Let me ask you, if my brother is drowning in a car and I can save him, but I choose not to.  Are you saying that I don't have to justify not saving him?


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## Bishop (Mar 28, 2007)

I can't see how someone could have a serious argument here- moral has nothing to do with anything. Moral is your personal dogma, putting it on some one else saying they are (inset insult) for not donating because or their moral is a weak argument. She doesn't need a reason  to donate because, ultamitly, she is not killing him directly or indirectly. She isn't the only person in the world that can donate, she is just the closet and most accessible. 

I speechless , or rather _typeless_, that some one is trying to accumulate an argument saying she is wrong , in any way, for not donating her personal property to another person. Yes, she may be criticized by the general public but an argument is not really logical. Though she did agree to it at first, she might of gotten scred of the small risks oe just didn't want to do it.

What he did is a bad move by making this public, unless of course he knew she wouln't change her mind and only did it so the public would look down on her.



> Let me ask you, if my brother is drowning in a car and I can save him, but I choose not to. Are you saying that I don't have to justify not saving him?


You don't in anyway. Sure your family may look at it another way but that is your personal matter on if you feel you should owe an explaination. It's your life and you don't have to put your life in any danger to save anyone, and you don't need to say anything unless the government steps in and asks for a report.


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## Fancy (Mar 28, 2007)

> I can't see how someone could have a serious argument here- moral has nothing to do with anything. Moral is your personal dogma, putting it on some one else saying they are (inset insult) for not donating because or their moral is a weak argument. *She doesn't need a reason not to donate because, ultamitly, she is not killing him directly or indirectly.* *She isn't the only person in the world that can donate, she is just the closet and most accessible.*


When words are your worst enemies, it's highly advised not to be outspoken.


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## Bishop (Mar 28, 2007)

I don't see that, you must of edited something because it's not there in my post >.>.....<.<


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## Giovanni Rild (Mar 28, 2007)

Bishop said:


> I can't see how someone could have a serious argument here- moral has nothing to do with anything. Moral is your personal dogma, putting it on some one else saying they are (inset insult) for not donating because or their moral is a weak argument. She doesn't need a reason  to donate because, ultamitly, she is not killing him directly or indirectly. She isn't the only person in the world that can donate, she is just the closet and most accessible.
> 
> I speechless , or rather _typeless_, that some one is trying to accumulate an argument saying she is wrong , in any way, for not donating her personal property to another person. Yes, she may be criticized by the general public but an argument is not really logical. Though she did agree to it at first, she might of gotten scred of the small risks oe just didn't want to do it.
> 
> ...



Are you a damn robot? You lack emotion in every way.


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## Bishop (Mar 28, 2007)

Magister Rild said:


> Are you a damn robot? You lack emotion in every way.



What? 

It is her choice and maybe she has more emotion for herself and her children then her brother. Maybe she just doesn't like him to begin with; we don't know their past.


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 28, 2007)

Bishop said:


> What?
> 
> It is her choice and maybe she has more emotion for herself and her children then her brother. Maybe she just doesn't like him to begin with; we don't know their past.



It would be something if she were giving her life for his, but she's not. Are you that fucking stupid to think that the risk is really significant of her dying? 

You know what? I don't like you. Actually, I think you're a complete moron. I would still donate bone marrow to you if you needed mine. Why? Because condemning someone to die just because you may not like them is abhorrent. 

We don't know their past, that doesn't mean it justifies her refusal as legitimate tard. Apparently they were on such horrid terms that their children played together. Go wank off somewhere else where proto-anarchy is still seen as trendy.


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## Bishop (Mar 28, 2007)

That NOS Guy said:


> It would be something if she were giving her life for his, but she's not. Are you that fucking stupid to think that the risk is really significant of her dying?
> 
> You know what? I don't like you. Actually, I think you're a complete moron. I would still donate bone marrow to you if you needed mine. Why? Because condemning someone to die just because you may not like them is abhorrent.
> 
> We don't know their past, that doesn't mean it justifies her refusal as legitimate tard. Apparently they were on such horrid terms that their children played together. Go wank off somewhere else where proto-anarchy is still seen as trendy.



Who said there was a risk of dying? I'm a moron because we don't agree, wow, you are an extreme person. 

 I would donate marrow also, but we are not her are we? It's her choice not a requirment; she has to power to say no for whatever reason and she took that power and said no.

 What do you mean justify her refusal? She has to be justified for saying no, for displaying her human rights? You, good sir, are the moron, hooked on moral and the law of "common good". I don't agree what she choose but I will fight for her right to choose it( Yeah I stole and editied that line, sue me)


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## Tsukiyomi (Mar 28, 2007)

Bishop said:


> You don't in anyway. Sure your family may look at it another way but that is your personal matter on if you feel you should owe an explaination. It's your life and you don't have to put your life in any danger to save anyone, and you don't need to say anything unless the government steps in and asks for a report.



Lets say you're dying, you're in a machine thats about to kill you.  I can lean over slightly and flip it off, and decide not to.

You don't think you would feel like you're owed _at the very least_ a reason why I won't?

All she has to do is sign a piece of paper and lie in a hospital bed and it saves his life.  She is in essence murdering him.


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## Bishop (Mar 28, 2007)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Lets say you're dying, you're in a machine thats about to kill you.  I can lean over slightly and flip it off, and decide not to.
> 
> You don't think you would feel like you're owed _at the very least_ a reason why I won't?
> 
> All she has to do is sign a piece of paper and lie in a hospital bed and it saves his life.  She is in essence murdering him.



Yes, I would feel like I need an explaination, but that doesn't mean you have to give it to me. Because I want you to tell me why doesn't me you have to tell me. I know what she has to do, pretty easy in fact, but she doesn't want or have to do that. Though it may seem wrong in peoples' moral to just turn and not help, it is their choice to do that just as it is their choice to help.

You guys are not understanding _it is HER choice_, not ours; she, for what ever reason it may be, doesn't have to do this. Even if all of us would help the man, she is not us and it is her choice no matter what your moral belief is, please understand it is her right to refuse, as it is yuor right to criticize.


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## Giovanni Rild (Mar 28, 2007)

Bishop said:


> Yes, I would feel like I need an explaination, but that doesn't mean you have to give it to me. Because I want you to tell me why doesn't me you have to tell me. I know what she has to do, pretty easy in fact, but she doesn't want or have to do that. Though it may seem wrong in peoples' moral to just turn and not help, it is their choice to do that just as it is their choice to help.
> 
> You guys are not understanding _it is HER choice_, not ours; she, for what ever reason it may be, doesn't have to do this. Even if all of us would help the man, she is not us and it is her choice no matter what your moral belief is, please understand it is her right to refuse, as it is yuor right to criticize.



Lack of morals fucking the earth up.


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## Bishop (Mar 28, 2007)

Magister Rild said:


> Lack of morals fucking the earth up.



Care to elaborate on that? In a PM if youthink it is too of-topic.


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## Thanos (Mar 28, 2007)

Bishop said:


> Yes, I would feel like I need an explaination, but that doesn't mean you have to give it to me. Because I want you to tell me why doesn't me you have to tell me. I know what she has to do, pretty easy in fact, but she doesn't want or have to do that. Though it may seem wrong in peoples' moral to just turn and not help, it is their choice to do that just as it is their choice to help.
> 
> You guys are not understanding _it is HER choice_, not ours; she, for what ever reason it may be, doesn't have to do this. Even if all of us would help the man, she is not us and it is her choice no matter what your moral belief is, please understand it is her right to refuse, as it is yuor right to criticize.



Everyone knows she has a choice. Everyone has choices. You have a choice to kill your neighbor's pet dog, but do you do it? No, because that would make you a pretty shitty person, wouldn't it? The argument is whether or not her actions of not donating have an impact on her character. And guess what, I think she's a bad person.

Heres the lowdown:

- *The risk of getting any sort of serious ailment from donating bone marrow is so fucking small, that you run more of a risk of dying each time you step out of the house, drive your car, or eat some food. *

*- She was already tested to see if she was a match, which she is. She already initially agreed to donate, which means she has been certified by doctors to be healthy enough for the procedure. (You can't agree to donate if this doesn't happen.)

- His brother has 3 young kids. I don't care how much she hates the brother, all she has to do is lie in a hospital bed for a little while, and her brother has a chance at living and raising his children. 

- Her only risk is minor discomfort, at most from a few days to a week. *


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## That NOS Guy (Mar 28, 2007)

Bishop said:


> Who said there was a risk of dying? I'm a moron because we don't agree, wow, you are an extreme person.



Sometimes when both sides are diametrically opposed one side is right, and the other is very, very wrong.



Bishop said:


> I would donate marrow also, but we are not her are we? It's her choice not a requirment; she has to power to say no for whatever reason and she took that power and said no.



But _why?_ Responisibility demands that there be at least a valid reason, especially seeing there was prior agreement and she went back on it without excuse. 



Bishop said:


> What do you mean justify her refusal? She has to be justified for saying no,



Yes, as that's common fucking decency and the basis for any rational soceity. It's my "human right" to go sleep with other women besides my girlfriend, but if she ever found me doing such a thing I'd owe her an explanation, not just stonewalling her. 



Bishop said:


> for displaying her human rights? You, good sir, are the moron, hooked on moral and the law of "common good". I don't agree what she choose but I will fight for her right to choose it( Yeah I stole and editied that line, sue me)



We're not attacking her right, we're attacking her lack of justification for exercising of said right dumbass.


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## Giovanni Rild (Mar 28, 2007)

Bishop said:


> Care to elaborate on that? In a PM if youthink it is too of-topic.



I'll say this. When letting a person waste away that you can save becomes acceptable just because you have the choice to, it's a fucking disgrace!!

What has this world come to? That is her damn brother she is letting die like that!!


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## Zodd (Mar 28, 2007)

Magister Rild said:


> I'll say this. When letting a person waste away that you can save becomes acceptable just because you have the choice to, it's a fucking disgrace!!
> 
> What has this world come to? That is her damn brother she is letting die like that!!



I can't defend either one of them because I don't know them personally. I don't see blood relations being any more significant than other relations. You don't choose your brother, and you don't owe them anything because you occupied the same womb and house. I would donate to save my sister, but I feel very little emotion toward her since we are different people and really don't get along. In fact, if not for my parents we would probably never see each other again. 

In my opinion, it says something about his character that he would publicize this. That she would volunteer for a blood analysis and then refuse says (to me) we know less than we should to render judgment here. What bothered me about the article is that it seems to be trying to get you to think a certain way.


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## Ifurita's Fan (Mar 28, 2007)

Thanos said:


> *
> 
> - Her only risk is minor discomfort, at most from a few days to a week. *



Please, let's be factually accurate here. 

I did a specific search on the drug used on donors as I mentioned earlier and it detailed out some very specific risks from the drug itself. 

*Her only risk is NOT just minor discomfort. *

I think you meant... most likely, she'll only have some minor discomfort for a few days. 

As with all surgery... there are some very real risks. Your body can go into shock, you can die from the anesthetic depressing your body's autonomic systems. 

Hell, the drug itself that she HAS to take increases risks of heart, lung, liver and kidney disease. She also risks infection, alergic reaction, and other post operative complications. Are they low risk items? Yes... but her chances of encountering them DO EXIST.

So please, stop ignoring the fact. This is not like taking your car in for an oil change. 

Maybe it is a lesser chance of dying from it than getting killed while walking in NYC  central park at night... but that doesn't mean you should just go walking in NYC at midnight to test the odds.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Mar 28, 2007)

Zodd said:


> I can't defend either one of them because I don't know them personally. I don't see blood relations being any more significant than other relations. You don't choose your brother, and you don't owe them anything because you occupied the same womb and house. I would donate to save my sister, but I feel very little emotion toward her since we are different people and really don't get along. In fact, if not for my parents we would probably never see each other again.
> 
> In my opinion, it says something about his character that he would publicize this. That she would volunteer for a blood analysis and then refuse says (to me) we know less than we should to render judgment here. What bothered me about the article is that it seems to be trying to get you to think a certain way.




I know that. Both are probably slimeballs. I hate most of my relatives, but I would give my marrow to them.


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## Thanos (Mar 28, 2007)

Ifurita's Fan said:


> I think you meant... most likely, she'll only have some minor discomfort for a few days.



You're right, I should have been more clear. Was just thinking that, since people dying or being seriously injured from donating bone marrow is almost unheard of, she should not be using it as a reason for not donating. Since she agreed to donate initially, she has already been tested to see if she would be healthy enough to receive the drugs/steroids/anesthetic.While there is always the chance that a doctor/nurse/whoever would mess up and harm the woman, isn't human error present in well, anything involving other people?  I would think that allowing her brothers' children to have a father is worth the very small risk of getting a serious illness from donating.


----------



## mislead (Mar 28, 2007)

I see that article as an attempt to manipulate the public into ostracizing the woman. And it serves it's purpose pretty well, judging from this thread. While I'm not sure if that was the man's intention, or simply some creative journalism kicked in, but he had already lost my sympathy by making the whole issue public. Now I simply don't care for either of them.

That being said, there's an interesting comment at the bottom by another transplantee. I advise reading it; puts the whole thing in a good perspective.


----------



## Thanos (Mar 28, 2007)

mislead said:


> I see that article as an attempt to manipulate the public into ostracizing the woman. And it serves it's purpose pretty well, judging from this thread. While I'm not sure if that was the man's intention, or simply some creative journalism kicked in, but he had already lost my sympathy by making the whole issue public. Now I simply don't care for either of them.
> 
> That being said, there's an interesting comment at the bottom by another transplantee. I advise reading it; puts the whole thing in a good perspective.



I agree that it should have been kept private. And we have no way at all in knowing their true situations. The only judgments we can make are from the information given by this reporter, which may or may not be factually true. From the articles information (such as describing how the woman said "thats very sad", with a smirk), I can deduce that she, as she is presented in the article, is not the nicest person around. But, there is probably allot more information involved here that wasn't written about, or told by the subjects of the article.


----------



## Fancy (Mar 28, 2007)

Sometimes it's just better to be human beings, which is what we are. Not shamelessly hide behind the horrid walls of laws and regulations, that us as "compassionate" individuals have made to better suit our selfish needs. As we can see, society works against us, as we have created it. Of course, with policy makers and corrupt left-winged politicians dictating our liberal democracy, and making all the vital decisions.. you would expect to find people who forget about basic moral standards and pretend to live in a "just" society as John Rawls would say. I'm taking the humane stance, because constructive and rigorous argumentations are big round circles that end up going nowhere.


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## Zodd (Mar 28, 2007)

angrywife said:


> Of course, with policy makers and corrupt left-winged politicians dictating our liberal democracy, and making all the vital decisions.. you would expect to find people who forget about basic moral standards and pretend to live in a "just" society as John Rawls would say.



I have never seen any evidence suggesting left wingers are inherently less moral than right wingers. In fact, the ratio of RW politicians being prosecuted for illegal behavior compared to LW politicians is around 10:1.


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## Tsukiyomi (Mar 28, 2007)

Bishop said:


> Yes, I would feel like I need an explaination, but that doesn't mean you have to give it to me. Because I want you to tell me why doesn't me you have to tell me. I know what she has to do, pretty easy in fact, but she doesn't want or have to do that. Though it may seem wrong in peoples' moral to just turn and not help, it is their choice to do that just as it is their choice to help.
> 
> You guys are not understanding _it is HER choice_, not ours; she, for what ever reason it may be, doesn't have to do this. Even if all of us would help the man, she is not us and it is her choice no matter what your moral belief is, please understand it is her right to refuse, as it is yuor right to criticize.



She promised him she would help, then revoked that promise.  She DOES owe him an explanation.

By your logic I can do whatever the fuck I want and not justify it to anyone.  I can walk into a preschool with an ak-47 and mow down all the kids then walk out.  I may be caught, but I never have to justify my actions to anyone.


----------



## Gunners (Mar 28, 2007)

Meh, to me the woman is worse than trash. In a situation like that you should be glad that you could help in anyway. Yeah it is her choice to do so but it doesn't make it the right decission.

As the parents I would be heart broken, two of my children would have died. In someways in the death the woman is worse of as her humanity dies with his death.


----------



## Bishop (Mar 28, 2007)

That NOS Guy said:


> Sometimes when both sides are diametrically opposed one side is right, and the other is very, very wrong.


But I'm not wrong and niether are you. You are in the pool of common good and I am in real life.





> But _why?_ Responisibility demands that there be at least a valid reason, especially seeing there was prior agreement and she went back on it without excuse.


Responsibility is a choice also, she doesn't have to do a damn thing. Just because you think there is no reason to not help this man doesn't mean you are right.



> Yes, as that's common fucking decency and the basis for any rational soceity. It's my "human right" to go sleep with other women besides my girlfriend, but if she ever found me doing such a thing I'd owe her an explanation, not just stonewalling her.


Key word is decency, she doesn't have any in this case. It is your right to cheat (unless you live in Michigan) but you owe her nothing at all, it is just common good to do so.



> We're not attacking her right, we're attacking her lack of justification for exercising of said right dumbass.


And I'm saying she doesn't need to justify anything to the least extent.



> She promised him she would help, then revoked that promise. She DOES owe him an explanation.


No, she owes him nothing at all. You may say it isn't fair, but when has life really always been fair? 



> By your logic I can do whatever the fuck I want and not justify it to anyone. I can walk into a preschool with an ak-47 and mow down all the kids then walk out. I may be caught, but I never have to justify my actions to anyone.


You don't have to at all, many criminals neglect to give explainations also. It's not my logic, it is your right. 

You may FEEL obligated to give a reason but you don't have to and you should know you don't. There is no law that forces you to tell the reason you did something unless you are told to in court. I don't agree with her choice but it is HER choice and her perception of this situation may be different then ours.


----------



## mislead (Mar 28, 2007)

Thanos said:


> I agree that it should have been kept private. And we have no way at all in knowing their true situations. The only judgments we can make are from the information given by this reporter, which may or may not be factually true. From the articles information (such as describing how the woman said "thats very sad", with a smirk), I can deduce that she, as she is presented in the article, is not the nicest person around. But, there is probably allot more information involved here that wasn't written about, or told by the subjects of the article.



I don't exactly doubt the information given in the article, even though some of it could probably be disputed. It just screams primitive manipulation though, and I really hate when somebody tries to manipulate me.


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## EvilMoogle (Mar 28, 2007)

Tsukiyomi said:


> She promised him she would help, then revoked that promise.  She DOES owe him an explanation.



This is true...

But in all fairness she owes *him* an explanation.  Not the media (and thus not us).  In the article all we have to go on is his wife's statements (which came _after_ she had been arrested for "losing her temper" with the sister, so you'll excuse me if I take her story with a grain of salt).

You would have to be pretty cold-hearted to stand there and watch your brother die, but at the end of the day that's between him and her (and perhaps her maker).


----------



## Fancy (Mar 28, 2007)

Zodd said:


> I have never seen any evidence suggesting left wingers are inherently less moral than right wingers. In fact, the ratio of RW politicians being prosecuted for illegal behavior compared to LW politicians is around 10:1.


It begs the question. Although, as a peeve of one single person, I couldn't care any less about ratios and any of that sort. My point was not to to show a relative comparison between two political ideologies. But rather (for sake of simplicity) to show that from bad, comes bad.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Mar 28, 2007)

Bishop said:


> But I'm not wrong and niether are you. You are in the pool or common good and I am in real life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Morals, go get some.​


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## Ifurita's Fan (Mar 28, 2007)

Thanos said:


> I would think that allowing her brothers' children to have a father is worth the very small risk of getting a serious illness from donating.




And I'd agree with you. You should be willing to place yourself at risk if doing so will save a worthwhile life. It's the brave thing to do.

She's being cowardly and I really wonder about her morals. 

But, at the same time... what this guy is doing reeks of a sense of "entitlement"... that he feels that he's "entitled" to her bone marrow. 

Then again... look at what they each do for a living. 

She's 43, a single mother (daughter 8, son 3) and working as a private educator.

He's a human resource manager with two masters degrees and is working on a PhD in industrial relations. 3 Children and a wife.

Hmmm... I seem to remember reading that bone marrow donors should be younger then 42 years old. Does age matter? Anyone know if her age puts her at risk somehow? More than someone younger?

Oh... and here's links to pics of each of them
Just to give them each a human face


\(simon "Gimme ur Marrow biatch" Pretty)


\(Helen "Last names DO lie" Pretty)
Damn it... I can't resist... 
Must... say... bitchy.. line.

I had no idea that* bovine *marrow could be used in place of* human *marrow for a transplant*.*


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## mislead (Mar 28, 2007)

Magister Rild said:


> Morals, go get some.​



Obviously, morals are now practiced by judging and condemning other people.


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## Giovanni Rild (Mar 28, 2007)

mislead said:


> Obviously, morals are now practiced by judging and condemning other people.



Sadly yes. But his answers are so robotic, it's disturbing.


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## Zodd (Mar 28, 2007)

Ifurita's Fan said:


> I had no idea that* bovine *marrow could be used in place of* human *marrow for a transplant*.*



Thank you so much. I wasn't going to post her pic because it could contaminate the response, but you went right ahead and did it.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Mar 28, 2007)

Bishop said:


> No, she owes him nothing at all. You may say it isn't fair, but when has life really always been fair?
> 
> You don't have to at all, many criminals neglect to give explainations also. It's not my logic, it is your right.
> 
> You may FEEL obligated to give a reason but you don't have to and you should know you don't. There is no law that forces you to tell the reason you did something unless you are told to in court. I don't agree with her choice but it is HER choice and her perception of this situation may be different then ours.



You seem to be under the impression that everyone gets what they're owed.  Not true.  She owes him an explanation even though she can't be forced to give him one.


----------



## Kanae-chan (Mar 28, 2007)

Zodd said:


> On one hand, it's pretty sickening if true. On the other hand, the guy took it public, thus probably burning any bridges he might have had.
> 
> What do you all think of the sister? Is this the whole story?


This. Is. Sickening.

How could some woman do this to her brother? This floors me. And, OH MY GOSH. SHE'S SMILING BECAUSE HE"LL DIE. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS WOMAN!?!

She is one who should be officially ostracised for life. Everyone just SHUN THIS LADY. She deserves to die a slow, painful death.


----------



## Bishop (Mar 28, 2007)

Tsukiyomi said:


> You seem to be under the impression that everyone gets what they're owed.


No I'm not, if I was then I would also be saying she owes him a reason.



> She owes him an explanation even though she can't be forced to give him one.


Under what lines does she owe him an explanation?


----------



## Kanae-chan (Mar 28, 2007)

Ifurita's Fan said:


> Please, let's be factually accurate here.
> 
> I did a specific search on the drug used on donors as I mentioned earlier and it detailed out some very specific risks from the drug itself.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't you rather give up your own life to save another?

That's what makes her a scumbag.


----------



## Ifurita's Fan (Mar 28, 2007)

Zodd said:


> Thank you so much. I wasn't going to post her pic because it could contaminate the response, but you went right ahead and did it.



I'm sorry Zodd... 

Honest.. I am. 

But I couldn't help it... she just looks like she needs a cow bell around her neck. 

And him... cripes... what about his pic... he's looking out at us like a handsomer and younger Palpatin in the first SW movie.

There's just something soul dead in his pic. She looks like a black haired version of Mrs Weasley from the Harry potter books. Only with a bad need for clearasil, and a psychopathic light in her eyes. Mad Cow disease... I blame it on Mad cow disease.


----------



## Ifurita's Fan (Mar 28, 2007)

No Ai's Sakura said:


> Wouldn't you rather give up your own life to save another?
> 
> That's what makes her a scumbag.



She's a single mum, with two kids... 8 and 3. 
Who'll take care of them if she dies?
Think about it.


----------



## mislead (Mar 28, 2007)

No Ai's Sakura said:


> Wouldn't you rather give up your own life to save another?
> 
> That's what makes her a scumbag.



No. *is a scumbag*


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Mar 28, 2007)

Bishop said:


> Under what lines does she owe him an explanation?



She owes him a reason for taking actions she consciously knows will cause him to die and take their father away from his kids.  She owes him a reason why she is ruining his family.

He won't get that reason, but that doesn't mean it isn't owed to him.


----------



## Zodd (Mar 28, 2007)

Ifurita's Fan said:


> I'm sorry Zodd...
> 
> Honest.. I am.
> 
> ...



You're right.  He looks like the milkman's baby, there's no way they're related. She must have thought the hillbilly suspenders and the caveman hairdo complimented her "my lobotomy feels reel good yessir" smile. And the last name must be the biggest joke in town. 


Her real brother???

I got that out of my system.


----------



## Bishop (Mar 28, 2007)

Tsukiyomi said:


> She owes him a reason for taking actions she consciously knows will cause him to die and take their father away from his kids.  She owes him a reason why she is ruining his family.
> 
> He won't get that reason, but that doesn't mean it isn't owed to him.



I know what you are saying "She owes him and his family a reason for why she is willingly letting him die" but she isn't killing him. She isn't the only person with a match to him so she isn't at direct fault, and if you say she is then everyone else who matches his marrow and doesn't donate is at fault. 
I don't see how she owe's him the reason. Is it because he may die? If so, that still doesn't mean she owes him anything, just that if she has the feelings or guilt she should explain why. But that's if she cares enough, and that's if she believes she owes him something.


----------



## Gunners (Mar 28, 2007)

> I know what you are saying "She owes him and his family a reason for why she is willingly letting him die" but she isn't killing him. She isn't the only person with a match to him so she isn't at direct fault, and if you say she is then everyone else who matches his marrow and doesn't donate is at fault.


No as other people don't know they are compatible. If I found out I was compatible and  I said no I would feel responsible. I don't really know and I can't really help that. Besides it is somewhat worse as they are siblins who most likely grew up together and shit.

It's like if you let someone die, it is bad but if you let a relative die it is somewhat worse.



> I don't see how she owe's him the reason. Is it because he may die? If so, that still doesn't mean she owes him anything, just that if she has the feelings or guilt she should explain why. But that's if she cares enough, and that's if she believes she owes him something.


No she does owe him an explanation. If you allow someone who should be close to you to die you should at least give them a reason she owes that much to him a reason for her filthy low down digusting act.

Personally I think she is worse than trash, trash at the very least is useful to some and can be recycled and used again. If her brother dies her humanity dies she would become less than a human being which is quite sad.


----------



## Bishop (Mar 28, 2007)

Jio said:


> No as other people don't know they are compatible. If I found out I was compatible and  I said no I would feel responsible. I don't really know and I can't really help that. Besides it is somewhat worse as they are siblins who most likely grew up together and shit.


I know that  but, I was assuming that they knew at least one other person compatible with him and he/she resued. Just assumption.




> No she does owe him an explanation. If you allow someone who should be close to you to die you should at least give them a reason she owes that much to him a reason for her filthy low down digusting act.


See, that is certasy, she owes him nothing but out of some bit of kindness she, from what many people are saying, should give him an explanation.
Only out of certasy, which is just common kindness, like openning a door for some one.




> Personally I think she is worse than trash, trash at the very least is useful to some and can be recycled and used again. If her brother dies her humanity dies she would become less than a human being which is quite sad.


Alot of people feel this way also.


----------



## Yakuza (Mar 28, 2007)

Wow....
this is disturbing..
guess you can't trust anyone nowdays!


----------



## Darth Payne (Mar 28, 2007)

I don't understand what exactly obligates her to donate her marrow or what makes her an "evil bitch" for refusing to do so.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Mar 28, 2007)

Bishop said:


> I know that  but, I was assuming that they knew at least one other person compatible with him and he/she resued. Just assumption.



Did you miss this part of the article?



			
				Article said:
			
		

> He has already exhausted the UK bone marrow register and doctors are looking for a match from strangers on international databases.



She is pretty much the only hope he has.



Bishop said:


> I know what you are saying "She owes him and his family a reason for why she is willingly letting him die" but she isn't killing him. She isn't the only person with a match to him so she isn't at direct fault, and if you say she is then everyone else who matches his marrow and doesn't donate is at fault.
> I don't see how she owe's him the reason. Is it because he may die? If so, that still doesn't mean she owes him anything, just that if she has the feelings or guilt she should explain why. But that's if she cares enough, and that's if she believes she owes him something.



Obviously she isn't the only person in the world that is a match, but the odds of them finding one in time are slim to nothing.  When he dies, she will have killed him.



Darth Payne said:


> I don't understand what exactly obligates her to donate her marrow or what makes her an "evil bitch" for refusing to do so.



You mean aside from the fact that she already agreed to do it?  She said she would, and now she won't.  If agreeing to save someones like doesn't obligate you to do it, what does?


----------



## Bishop (Mar 28, 2007)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Did you miss this part of the article?


I was making a generalization.





> She is pretty much the only hope he has.


True





> Obviously she isn't the only person in the world that is a match, but the odds of them finding one in time are slim to nothing.  When he dies, she will have killed him.


She will not have killed him....Directly that is.


> You mean aside from the fact that she already agreed to do it?  She said she would, and now she won't.  If agreeing to save someones like doesn't obligate you to do it, what does?


This doesn't answer his/her question. The answer is she doesn't owe him anything but the public thread thinks she does for common good.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Mar 28, 2007)

Let me ask you bishop, what exactly would she have to do to owe him something in your eyes?  She already made an agreement with him to save him, then went back on that agreement, sounds to me like she owes him what she promised.

Tell me, what would have to happen for her to owe him something?


----------



## Kisame. (Mar 28, 2007)

> She already made an agreement with him to save him, then went back on that agreement, sounds to me like she owes him what she promised.



pfft thats like saying a girl says she will give you sex on prom , changes her mind now she owes you oral


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Mar 28, 2007)

Kisame said:


> pfft thats like saying a girl says she will give you sex on prom , changes her mind now she owes you oral



Hardly the same as promising someone their life.


----------



## Kisame. (Mar 28, 2007)

> Hardly the same as promising someone their life.


 yes its the same as someone doing YOU a favor with no benefit of their own then deciding they don't want.


----------



## Mukuro (Mar 28, 2007)

Who knows the real reason behind what is going on? I'm not going to try and judge this. The man is unlucky, that's for sure.


----------



## Bishop (Mar 28, 2007)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Let me ask you bishop, what exactly would she have to do to owe him something in your eyes?  She already made an agreement with him to save him, then went back on that agreement, sounds to me like she owes him what she promised.
> 
> Tell me, what would have to happen for her to owe him something?



No one owes anybody anything unless it is under a contract. You can do a favor and think they owe you back, but they, in fact, don't owe you anything.

Listen tsukiyomi, she made an agreement and went back on it, so what? Many people do it, in this case it involved his life, it sucks for him but she made the choice. Promises are broken daily, this is just another broken one and the consequence may be death for one.


----------



## TreeofSephri (Mar 28, 2007)

You know guys no matter how much you all bitch and moan about morals and obligation nothing is going to change.  The guy needs bone marrow and she is not going to give it to him.  Its obvious that this guy is meant to die.  That is the problem with people today, always unwilling to accept God's will.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Mar 28, 2007)

Kisame said:


> yes its the same as someone doing YOU a favor with no benefit of their own then deciding they don't want.



So...you're saying if I promise I will save your life, then I decide not to lift a finger to help you....I haven't wrong you in any way and owe you nothing?


----------



## TreeofSephri (Mar 28, 2007)

I want to respond to the person who neg repped me. Death is only temporary because you get the join God in heaven.  God is a merciful good God and everything that happens is because he thought it was best.  You need to stop focusing on the present and look at the future.  Yes that little girl may be raped but because of it she could become a major voice for rape victims.


----------



## That NOS Guy (Mar 28, 2007)

TreeofSephri said:


> I want to respond to the person who neg repped me. Death is only temporary because you get the join God in heaven.  God is a merciful good God and everything that happens is because he thought it was best.  You need to stop focusing on the present and look at the future.  Yes that little girl may be raped but because of it she could become a major voice for rape victims.





God is so incredibly mericful he gives people long and suffering deaths.



			
				bishop said:
			
		

> But I'm not wrong and niether are you. You are in the pool of common good and I am in real life.



No, I'm in the pool of justifying actions which cause other people to die. This isn't blowing off a date. 



			
				bishop said:
			
		

> Responsibility is a choice also, she doesn't have to do a damn thing. Just because you think there is no reason to not help this man doesn't mean you are right



There are such things as criminal neglict(which would constitute that society recognizes that certain responsibilites are in fact, not a choice. Please do give some sort of valid pressing reason as to why she can't help. I'm not thinking there is no reason, it's quite simply that no reason has been presented by the accused thus indicating she's condemning someone to death over pettyness. 



			
				bishop said:
			
		

> Key word is decency, she doesn't have any in this case. It is your right to cheat (unless you live in Michigan) but you owe her nothing at all, it is just common good to do so.



So we recognize that the common good is decent, and that she lacks any decency. Where is it wrong to criticize her again? 



			
				bishop said:
			
		

> And I'm saying she doesn't need to justify anything to the least extent.



We all need to justify our actions, espeically in cases of sealing the fate of terminal patients. That attitude is stupid, unless you expect your parents/landlord to toss you out onto the street at the drop of a hat.


----------



## Ifurita's Fan (Mar 28, 2007)

Bishop said:


> No one owes anybody anything unless it is under a contract. You can do a favor and think they owe you back, but they, in fact, don't owe you anything.


Actually Bishop, I have to disagree with you on that. 
If you live in a society or civilization... you owe everyone else that lives in that civilization with you, obedience to the general social order. 

If there is a code of law, you owe it to everyone else (including yourself) to adhere to it so as not to destroy the fabric of society. 

If there are social concerns that affect everyone in that society (legal war, famine, pandemic diseases,  et al) you owe the society your loyalty to properly addressing these issues. 

You can call it a social contract if you like... but it's the cost of living in a civilized nation. 

Now, that said... if you don't like the way that that civilization is run, you're more than welcome to leave and join another that is more in line with your philosophies (provided your own civilization believe in that freedom). 

In some civilization, that woman's right to refuse to provide marrow might not exist at all. 

All I can say is thank GOD we don't live in such a society... Imagine what that would be like if we did. People would have their bodies harvested like crops. 

Pretty much like the world that your V for Vendetta sig references... A utterly totalitarian regime.


----------



## Casyle (Mar 28, 2007)

*Hrm....*

While I don't have a deep understanding of their particular beliefs, I seem to be more like Zionists.  I believe that God is certainly watching over us, but he has set everything in motion and, for the most part, is a non-interventionist.  I do see some things everynow and then that make you wonder HOW did he/she survive without help?  I remember when I was a kid, some guy fell off of a mountain and LIVED.  It was very popular in my circle and church.  I guess he recited Psalms 23 as he fell.

Anyhow...  While I agree with Treeofsephri about God being good and merciful, I disagree with the rest.  He sounds a lot like my father...

I cannot and do-not believe that if something happens to you it's always God's will.  

My body is broken, and I'm in horrible pain everyday.  I'm fully disabled, can't work, and am very much suicidal.  That's God's plan for me?  It's his will that I developed these diseases and destroyed my right leg playing football?

The problem with your explanation with a rape victim, in my opinion, is that it happens all the time.  It's not some...  rare thing that will shock the nation.  It happens everyday. It's too much like Fate.  As if God would pick out a particular soul and say, "Ok, you'll live to be 13 then a child molster is going to do horrible, unspeakable things to you before finally killing you.  And your death will be duly noted by a small obituary, like most others, and quickly forgotten by everyone but your family." 

A good, merciful God would not do such things to someone, in my opinion.  Worse things than I described happen everyday.  

I dunno....


----------



## Kvothe Kingkiller (Mar 29, 2007)

She agreed to it and then she decided not to do it? Hm, interesting. Within those years, I wonder what changed her mind. She say her family is put first, so...something did happen. *shrugs*


----------



## Denimjo (Mar 29, 2007)

Why is everyone assuming she hasn't given him a reason for refusing to go through with it? It's very possible that she did give him a reason and he rejected it so he's pulling this disgusting public stunt to try to get the public to force her to change her mind.

Tell me this: if, by some miracle, she is prodded, hounded, harassed and bullied into doing this procedure that everyone knows is fundamentally against her will, will everyone _then _be *happy*? Will they then declare her a 'saint' and praise her to the ends of the earth? I sincerely doubt it. Does the phrase 'My body, my choice' ring any bells for people?

Here's a news flash for a lot of you out there: people are not legally _or _morally required to be good people, just as it's not illegal to be a jerk (which is very good news for a number of people on this forum  ). It seems to me that, unfortunately, since there's been a preponderance of loving, kind-hearted and genuinely admirable good deeds done for other people (family, friends or strangers), people generally seem to take for granted that _everyone _is or will be that 'noble.' Just because one person would give their life for a stranger doesn't mean everyone would. Just because one person would risk their health for their brother doesn't mean everyone would.

I think this brings up the issue of free will. I was under the impression that we were living in a society where people could _choose _how to live their life, not one where we're being forced to act in a way we don't want to due to peer pressure. And hell, it's not like this woman is trying to gouge a shitload of money out of her brother in order to cooperate; now _that _would be immoral to me.

Everyone has a right to decide what will or won't be done with their own body and no one else should force them to do anything otherwise.


----------



## Iria (Mar 29, 2007)

As many others have said, I want to know the whole story


----------



## sj2k (Mar 29, 2007)

Denimjo, I don't think anyone is saying legally she should have to do it.  Just that it is pretty low to refuse a very low risk procedure to save the life of you brother...


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Mar 29, 2007)

Denimjo said:


> Why is everyone assuming she hasn't given him a reason for refusing to go through with it? It's very possible that she did give him a reason and he rejected it so he's pulling this disgusting public stunt to try to get the public to force her to change her mind.



Hey, I've got news for you.  We can't EVER know that unless he states it publicly.  Since he hasn't, don't try to use that as an argument.  You can't use that as an argument because it has no basis in ANYTHING.



Denimjo said:


> Tell me this: if, by some miracle, she is prodded, hounded, harassed and bullied into doing this procedure that everyone knows is fundamentally against her will, will everyone _then _be *happy*? Will they then declare her a 'saint' and praise her to the ends of the earth? I sincerely doubt it. Does the phrase 'My body, my choice' ring any bells for people?



My body...my choice?  No one is forcing her to get this done, she would still have to consent.  What we're talking about is wether or not she owes it to him.  She promised it to him, so she owes it to him.  If I promise to save your live and I can do it easily, I owe it to you to _atleast_ TRY.



Denimjo said:


> Here's a news flash for a lot of you out there: people are not legally _or _morally required to be good people, just as it's not illegal to be a jerk (which is very good news for a number of people on this forum  ). It seems to me that, unfortunately, since there's been a preponderance of loving, kind-hearted and genuinely admirable good deeds done for other people (family, friends or strangers), people generally seem to take for granted that _everyone _is or will be that 'noble.' Just because one person would give their life for a stranger doesn't mean everyone would. Just because one person would risk their health for their brother doesn't mean everyone would.
> 
> I think this brings up the issue of free will. I was under the impression that we were living in a society where people could _choose _how to live their life, not one where we're being forced to act in a way we don't want to due to peer pressure. And hell, it's not like this woman is trying to gouge a shitload of money out of her brother in order to cooperate; now _that _would be immoral to me.
> 
> Everyone has a right to decide what will or won't be done with their own body and no one else should force them to do anything otherwise.




Yup, you're 100% right.  No one is required to be a good person, but there are limits to how bad of a person we will allow you to be.

Here is a scenario for you, your mother lives with you.  She is too weak to get out of bed herself, so she relies on you to bring her food, water and any medication she needs.

Now, you cannot be forced to go in there and give her those things.  You can do it easily if you wanted to.  If you choose to let her die you would be arrested, its called criminal neglect.  There are limits to what we let you choose to do when it effects other people.

Unless of course you think you're well within your rights to sit there and let your mother die?


----------



## Goodfellow (Mar 29, 2007)

Yes, the sister is being enourmusly egoistic. As many ahs pointed out, donating bone marrow doesn't seem to be all that dangerous, especially compared to a cancer.


----------



## ~Kaio-Cam~ (Mar 29, 2007)

if i were the brother, i would kill her before I die. Seriously i would. If I go down, I'm taking her and her bone marrow with me.


----------



## Anarchy (Mar 29, 2007)

I would think there is something that we don not know about their realtionship. But I can't think of anything that would my her turn her back on family. What a selfish bitch


----------



## Shiron (Mar 29, 2007)

Hmm, I can't help but feel that we aren't getting the full story. Obviously, there was something that made her change her mind, since at first she seemed willing to do it but only now changes her mind... And until I know what that is, I can't really comment on how I feel about this; depending on what exactly it was that made her change her mind, how I feel about this could be entirely different.


----------



## Fulcata (Mar 29, 2007)

Bone Marrow transplants hurt like hell.
LIKE HELL I SAY!
Maybe she's just allergic to pain.


----------



## Booster Beetle (Mar 29, 2007)

Ifurita's Fan said:


> However, the only side that was apparently given voice in this article is the voice of the dying man, his wife, and some side comments from their children.
> 
> You don't hear anything about the woman who would have to actually give the marrow, do you?
> 
> That's just bad and sensationalistic journalism.



I'm willing to bet she declined being interviewed and did not give a statement. Frankly it would make a more sensational story if she DID give her reasons, either because they're something frivolous (Mommy always loved him best, the bastard!) or there's some sort of scandal there that would make for an interesting story. 

As for those people who say we should ‘respect’ her choice, PLEASE. I don’t know about you, but I don’t hand out respect like it's Halloween candy, it's something that is generally earned.  I cannot imagine any reasoning that would make this a respectable choice. I respect the law enough that I don't think anyone should knock her out and steal her marrow, but that's the limit of my respect as far as this woman is concerned.


----------



## Vicious ♥ (Mar 29, 2007)

Rangamaru said:


> As many of you guys like to write, "we don't know the whole story." For all we know, he raped her when she was young. I hate my brother and I wouldn't let him die--perhaps there is a reason...



True true, but if there isn't she's one disgusting bitch and I hope she changes her mind eventually.


----------



## DragonHeart52 (Mar 29, 2007)

Zodd said:


> On one hand, it's pretty sickening if true. On the other hand, the guy took it public, thus probably burning any bridges he might have had.
> 
> What do you all think of the sister? Is this the whole story?



I doubt that it is.  First off, the story only covers the situation from the viewpoint of Mr. Pretty's family and what they say his sister said.  There might be health issues involved on her side.  One can never say that any medical procedure is without risk and there are risks of complications and disqualifying factors for marrow donation.

I don't think they did their cause any good by pressuring her.  It can be that her husband is against her taking such a risk or that she herself is dealing with medical issues or other problems and doesn't wish to make it a matter of public discussion.

Like it or not, he may be her brother but he isn't _entitled_ to her body parts for his own needs, whether it poses a significant risk to her or not.  It's a nasty precedent to set to force her to donate (which is what is being attempted here in a round about way through public shaming when private manipulation didn't work).  Open that can of worms and where will it stop?  A second donation if this one fails?  Complications and organ damage due to treatment preps and medications?  Sis is always there.  You only _need _one lung or one kidney.

I can sympathize with his situation, but anyone has the right to refuse to be a donor...even family.

For those of you who find her so heartless, there are a lot of people out there waiting for marrow and blood donations.  How many of _you_ are signed up on the donor registries and have had your tissue typed for matches?  Are you willing to give the same chance at life to a total stranger?


----------



## Bro Tai Jr. (Mar 30, 2007)

That's horrible.
That bitch is insane.


----------



## Ichiban-nin (Mar 30, 2007)

In terms of Utilitarianism, that's just plain wrong.


----------



## CurvingEdge (Mar 30, 2007)

i hope she develops the same thing and is put in the same position


----------



## GrimaH (Mar 30, 2007)

~Kaio-Cam~ said:


> if i were the brother, i would kill her before I die. Seriously i would. If I go down, I'm taking her and her bone marrow with me.



Do you realise what you just said?
Seriously, those who are pro-auntwhorefusestodonatetobro please ignore this idiot. His views are in no way a representation of the opinion of the anti-aunt side.

EDIT: Did I just see another word in there?


----------



## Bya Bya (Mar 30, 2007)

Maybe she hates him for something he did. Maybe their relationship was always bad. I dunno.


----------



## Kisame. (Mar 30, 2007)

DragonHeart52 said:


> I doubt that it is.  First off, the story only covers the situation from the viewpoint of Mr. Pretty's family and what they say his sister said.  There might be health issues involved on her side.  One can never say that any medical procedure is without risk and there are risks of complications and disqualifying factors for marrow donation.
> 
> I don't think they did their cause any good by pressuring her.  It can be that her husband is against her taking such a risk or that she herself is dealing with medical issues or other problems and doesn't wish to make it a matter of public discussion.
> 
> ...



so im not the only sane person the forum. phew


----------



## Tatsuki (Mar 30, 2007)

now THAT is what i call cold.


----------



## Kenji310 (Mar 31, 2007)

I agree on that part, the sister is kind of cold, but we don't know what kind of past they had. For all we know he could have brutally abused her when they were kids, adventuring into the woods and then ditching her somewhere in there for a couple a days or something. Even though I think that sister should at least give that man a chance, but what's done is done. I bet that brother is regretting whatever he did to make his sister hate him so much.


----------



## CurvingEdge (Mar 31, 2007)

Kenji310 said:


> I agree on that part, the sister is kind of cold, but we don't know what kind of past they had. For all we know he could have brutally abused her when they were kids, adventuring into the woods and then ditching her somewhere in there for a couple a days or something. Even though I think that sister should at least give that man a chance, but what's done is done. I bet that brother is regretting whatever he did to make his sister hate him so much.



ok i take back my opinion...maybe the dude derserves it...i need more details


----------



## DragonBlade7 (Mar 31, 2007)

~Kira Yamato~ said:


> I don't understand how the sister could be so cold towards her own brother. I read the article and waited for a reason for her behavior and got "she was putting her family first"..but if their no risks involve (other than the usual minimal risk any human being takes when undergoing surgery), then why not help out your brother?
> 
> I seriously thought it was a sister who hated her brother and did it out of spite. Even that horrible excuse would have been better than the reason she gave...
> 
> I'm just stunned..a little speechless even. It's her decision in the end but I think it's a bit low class. *ends my rant*



That is horrible.  I was stunned too.
*I'll see you in hell, bitch. *smirk**


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## Sammy-Jo (Mar 31, 2007)

Whatever. 

It's her choice to decide whether or not to donate the bone marrow, and she's made her decision. Ranting about it here won't make her change her mind.

I have two younger brothers, one of whom I've never gotten along with or liked, and likely never will, but if he had cancer and if I were a perfect match for whatever he needed, I'd do it as long as there were minimal risks involved.


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## mister_manji (Mar 31, 2007)

Although I cant say i approve of her behavior,  it is not the brothers choice to make, nor should he expect anything from her. he had a life to live. maybe he shouldnt of had kids if he had cancer. taking things for granted always screws you in the long run.


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## Lord of Mikawa (Mar 31, 2007)

The man's sister seems pretty fucked up. I don't understand why she would do such a thing to her own brother.


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## Tsukiyomi (Apr 2, 2007)

I still have yet to hear a good answer to my question.

I agree she can't be forced to do it, nor should she.  But I have yet to hear a good reason why she doesn't owe him some form of explanation.  She's letting him die when she can very easily save his life, after telling him she _would_.

I would say that at least entitles him to a reason why she is refusing.

And don't give me that crap that this article is from one point of view.  If she wanted to I'm sure the media would have been more than happy to publish every word she had to say because it would add drama to the situation.

Hell, she doesn't even have to tell us the reason, just tell the news "I gave him a reason".


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## EvilMoogle (Apr 2, 2007)

Tsukiyomi said:


> And don't give me that crap that this article is from one point of view.  If she wanted to I'm sure the media would have been more than happy to publish every word she had to say because it would add drama to the situation.
> 
> Hell, she doesn't even have to tell us the reason, just tell the news "I gave him a reason".



Part of the problem is anything she tells the media will just drag it on and generate more publicity.  Regardless of her reason she doesnt' reant any particular attention out of this.

Three different entirely-made-up options:
A) Her reason is "My brother beat our pet cat to death and raped me with it's corpse.  He's a cruel sub-human and deserves to die a slow and painful death."  If she brings it up to the media she gets the fun speculation as to if she's telling the truth plus gets to rehash old painful memories over and over again in countless interview requests.

B)  Her reason is "I just don't like my brother very much."  Or "I just don't want to suffer some pain to save my brother's life."  The popular reaction will generally be "how selfish, she's an evil woman who should die" like the majority of the thread is.  Hardly the sort of thing she wants to advertise.

C)  Her reason is "I found out that I have a rare condition that means I will die if I donate bone marrow."  Again she's opening herself up to more publicity and the inevitable speculation as to if she's telling the truth.  There are also some people out there that will still say "So she's choosing her life over his, how selfish!" even if they accept it as true.

All three options cover just about the entire gambit of possibilities, and (moral reasons, non-reason reasons, and medical reasons) and all three will just cause her more pain if she brings it up *to the media* (I freely admit that she owes her brother an explanation assuming she hasn't given him one).

(Note before people object to the utterly made-up reasons I provided above, they're simply examples of the various possible objections.  I'm not making any contention whatsoever as to what her objection is or the validity of it.  "A" represents a "moral judgement" excuse, "B" a "I just don't feel like it" excuse, and "C" a legitimate medical excuse).


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## Tsukiyomi (Apr 2, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> Part of the problem is anything she tells the media will just drag it on and generate more publicity.  Regardless of her reason she doesnt' reant any particular attention out of this.
> 
> Three different entirely-made-up options:
> A) Her reason is "My brother beat our pet cat to death and raped me with it's corpse.  He's a cruel sub-human and deserves to die a slow and painful death."  If she brings it up to the media she gets the fun speculation as to if she's telling the truth plus gets to rehash old painful memories over and over again in countless interview requests.
> ...



I see you missed at least part of my post.  The very last part of the part you quoted.

She brings _more_ attention to herself by refusing to give a reason than if she simply said "I gave him a reason, its a personal family matter that the news has no business in".  Thats _all_ she has to do, just acknowledge that she gave a reason, she doesn't have to tell us what it is.


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## EvilMoogle (Apr 2, 2007)

Tsukiyomi said:


> I see you missed at least part of my post.  The very last part of the part you quoted.
> 
> She brings _more_ attention to herself by refusing to give a reason than if she simply said "I gave him a reason, its a personal family matter that the news has no business in".  Thats _all_ she has to do, just acknowledge that she gave a reason, she doesn't have to tell us what it is.



But would the media really run such a boring story?  If she agreed to an interview likely it would just be them harassing her until she says something they can use in the story.  Sensationalism sells.

Even if she stuck to the statement you gave, likely if they decided to run a story at all the story would say something like "When asked about her side of the story Ms. Soandso said to mind our own business and refused to answer any of our questions."

Hardly a flattering position and wouldn't change any of the comments presented in the thread so-far.


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## GrimaH (Apr 2, 2007)

mister_manji said:


> maybe he shouldnt of had kids if he had *known he had* cancer.



Fixed. It's not like he DID know he would get cancer when he was born.


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## ANBUBooBoo (Apr 2, 2007)

Well, I guess ~somebody~ is getting written out of the will.


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## Jazz (Apr 2, 2007)

I don't get it. They're related. THAT should mean she would accept it no matter what


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## Tsukiyomi (Apr 3, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> But would the media really run such a boring story?  If she agreed to an interview likely it would just be them harassing her until she says something they can use in the story.  Sensationalism sells.
> 
> Even if she stuck to the statement you gave, likely if they decided to run a story at all the story would say something like "When asked about her side of the story Ms. Soandso said to mind our own business and refused to answer any of our questions."
> 
> Hardly a flattering position and wouldn't change any of the comments presented in the thread so-far.



Harassing her until they get something they can use in a story?  I seriously doubt that, know what they're more likely to do?  They're more likely to go find another story that they think will sell.  Even if she were to come out and say "I refused because I hate him, he raped me in my wagon as a child as a monkey he trained to work a camera taped it all", this story is still just a flavor of the month.  The news media doesn't give a shit about it and they'll move on to something else soon.

If anything they're more likely to harass her for saying nothing than for saying...well just about anything else.

Also I seriously doubt the news media would say she refused to give a statement, they would probably print whatever she said because it gives them more to print and talk about.


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## Beo (Apr 3, 2007)

That women is a bitch...

I'm pretty sure my sister would do the same thing...


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## k-k-Kyle (Apr 4, 2007)

Wow, that bitch should honestly die.

The fuckhead of society, people.


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## Kitty (Apr 4, 2007)

Haha, If I were her I sure wouldn't give him shit after he ran to the media with it.

She gave him a reason; She's putting her family first, which could mean a number of things but we don't know considering we haven't gotten a statement from her. Beyond that, she doesn't owe him shit. She obviously doesn't like him to some degree based on something that occured in their 40+ year long relationship. He needs to accept that and just die.

I also take everything this couple has stated with a grain of salt. They went and harrassed her before going to the media with it so they must be pretty bitter.


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## Draffut (Apr 4, 2007)

The sister should be put on trial for murder as far as I am concerned.

Or atleast take her kids away fro mthe psycho.


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## Kitty (Apr 4, 2007)

Why? She's behaving in a perfectly legal matter. Her brother isn't entitled to shit.


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## Archon zekrish (Apr 4, 2007)

Well life sucks and then you die.


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## The Pink Ninja (Apr 5, 2007)

So you only have the word of the pissed of wife that she smirked and you all assume she must have done it?

I assume their must be something in their history or a worry about the procedure or of what the brother might do if he lives...


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## Kyuubi1234 (Apr 5, 2007)

I think its wrong that she would be a donar for her own brother. As she said ''I am putting my family first'' Isnt her brother family. Personally i would donate anything that i could to keep my brother/family alive. I just dont see how someone could do something like this.


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## .:)REIRA(:. (Apr 6, 2007)

I'm not close to my own sibling, but if it meant saving her life, I wouldn't even have to think about it.


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## JayG (Apr 14, 2007)

That NOS Guy said:


> Because he _is_ a moron, and I refuse to suffer people knowingly introducing _slander of a dying man_. I don't care what's respectable, I do however care about basic decency, and those who show none of it shall receive none of it as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> What makes you think I'm not looking "at the whole picture" boy? Are you honestly that convinced of the righteousness of your cause that you can't go with the evidence on hand? If you can prove this *isn't* for a petty reason or she's being a total cunt I invite you to prove it. Until then, the survey says she's a failure at life who were it not for my anti-death penalty stance I'd seriously suggest be dragged into the streets and shot like the dog she is.



You're not looking at the whole picture because you only look at one side and refuse to even admit the possibility of anything else. You say you use basic logic? How about ignorant logic? Or perhaps, no logic at all.

You say that her refusing to help means that all the evidence points to one thing, and one thing only, and that this woman is "being a total cunt" is stupid. You say that that is the only logical reason for her refusal. Actually, that couldn't be further from the truth.

Let's break this down using REAL logic.

One person is dying, and you're the only person who can save them. LOGIC dictates that you do everything in your power to save them. LOGIC dictates, that, especially if this is your relative or someone close to you, you do everything you can to save them.

But what she did DEFIED logic. Thus, you have to look at WHY she did, and no her "being a total cunt" isn't the only logical reason, because, well, it's not logical at all, especially since she originally AGREED to it. Therefore, the more logical thing to believe is that there is another reason why she refuses to help aside from her being "ATC".  

The more logical reason is that something, from the time she agreed to be the donor, happened that made her drastically change her mind.

Is it possible she's just plain evil? Oh yeah, definitely. But it's also possible that her brother had raped her when she was young and somehow, her memories got repressed and only now is she remembering all the bad things her brother did back then. What if she recently found out that her brother is abusing his kids (or other children, i.e. he's a p*d*p****)? What if she recently found out some other dirty secret he has? Just because they were not presented in the article doesn't mean they aren't a possibility. That kind of thinking is foolish and idiotic.

Without knowing anything but one thing (what you read in this article), you have already condemned this woman of being a sinner, and, according to you, worthy of death (if not for your "anti-death penalty"). 

You preach about "basic decency" yet you "seriously suggest [she] be dragged into the streets and shot like the dog she is", despite not knowing this person personally. Not to mention, you've called a poster (again, someone you know NOTHING about) "asshole" simply for not agreeing with your opinion, then told him "fuck you" and then called him "asshole" again, and then "moron".

Hey call me crazy, but something about that doesn't scream "decent" to me.



Meng De said:


> She shouldn't be forced, personally, if i were her i'de tell him to keep on looking all over, and IF at the very end he can't find a doner, i'de do it.



Where's the logic in that? To me, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You're not willing to be the "first" donor for your brother, but you expect someone else will?



Shinobikitty said:


> All I have to say is I watched 2 people I love die from cancer and my mother almost die and then recover only to still have pain to this day...
> 
> It is the most horrible thing to watch and if I had to travel through hell and back for them I would have... I can't believe someone that would have the power to save someones life would chose not too.
> 
> I understand there maybe underlying conflict between the brother and sister but she needs to think of his children who are innocent and will have NO father if he dies. Why would she let children that young go through the loss of their father? Terrible....



I don't know what kind of father Adolf Hitler was (if he even had a family), but let's assume he did have a family. You know what he was about to do (WW2), and yet, he was about to die and you're the only one who can save him, would you?

I'm obviously exaggerating here with the comparison, but it still stands. What if a criminal (murderer, rapist, etc..obviously a true criminal, not just some petty theft) is at your door step about to die and you're the only one who can save him/her, would you do it? There's a real moral gray area, and I really don't think we can just say either way without really knowing all the facts.


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## Prince Leon (Apr 14, 2007)

What a great sister. Almost makes me wish that my sisters were like her.


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## Nisukeita (Apr 14, 2007)

Ok, his wife was so worked up that she almost got in a fight with his sister, I'm only going to assume that she cares deeply for him, telling me that he obviously isn't a bad husband. I'm also going to act upon the assumption that he is a great father stemming from the fact that he has 3 fully healthy children, and we have yet to see anything surface telling us otherwise.

Now acting on this assumption, I feel comfortable saying that I sympathize for this man, and I completely disagree at his sisters actions.

I'm willing to bet, this whole issue stems from the sisters ignorance as what actually happens during a transplant and that she is acting in what she thinks is her own safety, and her family....I'm guessing she learned something during the three years that changed her mind...most likely a friend or family member strongly advising her to NOT go through with it, most likely acting upon there own misunderstanding at how dangerous the surgery actually is.

I for feel there is more risk walking outside your house and driving to work, then there is in a modern operating room....but as sad as this story may be, to each there own....


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## Kraze (Apr 15, 2007)

Kitty said:


> Haha, If I were her I sure wouldn't give him shit after he ran to the media with it.
> 
> She gave him a reason; She's putting her family first, which could mean a number of things but we don't know considering we haven't gotten a statement from her. Beyond that, she doesn't owe him shit. She obviously doesn't like him to some degree based on something that occured in their 40+ year long relationship. He needs to accept that and just die.
> 
> I also take everything this couple has stated with a grain of salt. They went and harrassed her before going to the media with it so they must be pretty bitter.






Kitty said:


> Why? She's behaving in a perfectly legal matter. Her brother isn't entitled to shit.



You belong in the cesspool with this guys sister. I can only guess a couple things..

1) You're an only child.

2) You're a craptacular sibling

3) You're too young to understand.


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## milkbar (Apr 15, 2007)

i bet there isn't much worse than knowing there's a cure out there, and not being able access to it.

except of course, dying from the disease first.


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## Red Viking (Apr 15, 2007)

JayG said:


> You're not looking at the whole picture because you only look at one side and refuse to even admit the possibility of anything else. You say you use basic logic? How about ignorant logic? Or perhaps, no logic at all.
> 
> You say that her refusing to help means that all the evidence points to one thing, and one thing only, and that this woman is "being a total cunt" is stupid. You say that that is the only logical reason for her refusal. Actually, that couldn't be further from the truth.
> 
> ...



Quoted for truth.

I've always found it insanely mind-boggling how people, as a whole, preach tolerance and goodness, then turn around and wish for death and ill-will towards those who don't conform to expected imagery.  Ostracizing those who do only creates more problems.

The fact that they took a private matter public, the fact that the message was so _overwhelmingly_ one-sided makes me know that there's more to this story.


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## Dagoth Ur (May 1, 2007)

Well she really could have been sorry for not donating his blood but when that guy took this to the media then she has a good reason to not give him her blood people r gonig to be herassing her alot. I wouldn't give him any blood if he took it to the media either.


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## Marl (May 1, 2007)

Making this public was the worst possible decision that guy could have made.


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## impersonal (May 1, 2007)

Rangamaru said:


> As many of you guys like to write, "we don't know the whole story." For all we know, he raped her when she was young. I hate my brother and I wouldn't let him die--perhaps there is a reason...



Agreed. People do not act whithout a reason. Perhaps that guy's sister doesn't have _a good reason_ to do it; but she surely has _a reason_. Until we know about it, I don't want to judge her.


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## Naruto_Sama (May 1, 2007)

I can only imagine my brother's face if I turned him down.
It is cold.
Your parents created two of you so you could look out for each other bitch.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 1, 2007)

I don't think that someone's sister should do that kind of thing, if it was someone you didn't know then I could understand. But to have your own flesh and blood family suffering like that and to not try to do anything. That's fucked up.


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## Lain (May 1, 2007)

I'd laugh so hard if the guy had been really mean to his sister in the past.


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## RPG_Fan04 (May 1, 2007)

Read the title of the thread....first thought "That...sucks." 

Then, read the article....well, kinda have that thought still  Though, as someone has said, for all we know, she may have had a bad childhood that her brother did something to do her (thus, have the large grudge and amused that he was going to die).

...If she didn't have a bad childhood.....she's just a cold-hearted bitch then.


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## Swimfan908 (May 2, 2007)

That women is one sick mother fucking bitch. This is the most disgusting piece of shit I've heard in a long time. What a fucking whore.


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## Arachnia (May 2, 2007)

even if he behaved badly to her, she should think of his kids...stupid cunt


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## Draffut (May 2, 2007)

Kitty said:


> Why? She's behaving in a perfectly legal matter. Her brother isn't entitled to shit.



Becuase she effectivly killed her brother.

Negligence maybe?


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## Saria19 (May 2, 2007)

If there is no reason for her to refuse, then she seems like an evil, disgusting woman. She probably believes that there will be something for her to gain from his death and that is why she already has a lawyer. If that is the case, then maybe she is sick with something as well and refuses to donate to try to insure her own life. I have seen that happen, a family member falls ill, someone else has what they need to survive, but that person needs the liver or lungs of the other so they let them die so they can have an easy collection.


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## GrimaH (May 2, 2007)

Can anyone update the situation?


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