# Supernatural vs Charmed(No omnipotents)



## DarkBladex96 (Feb 28, 2011)

Death and God (supernatural) arent in this For obvious reasons.

All characters have all powers they've ever possessed.

The fight is on earth. Supernatural can have the reapers.


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## Darth Nihilus (Feb 28, 2011)

How powerful is Charmed again?


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## zenieth (Feb 28, 2011)

Terrible level.


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## Devil Kings (Feb 28, 2011)

Darth Nihilus said:


> How powerful is Charmed again?



Pretty powerful. They have reality warpers in the form of Wyatt, sad thing is, he was more powerful as a child. Then there Cole after he came back from the waste land, there the Avatars.

Charmed also has a parallel world, where everything is parallel.

With out the Angel's Supernatural's not winning.


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## Toriko (Feb 28, 2011)

Depends on if the fight is in heaven or not, becuase Supernatural angels average on the size of skyscrapers there. In the human world, angels are still really powerful, Cas is at least low relativistic in travel speed, and has Superhuman physical stats in others like strength,durability ect. Recently he's obtaine an assload of holy weapons, like the lazarus stone, which can one shot angels stronger than him.

Then of course you have the Archangels and Lucifer, who are all above even him, Lucifer solo'd a dozen other religion's gods who could all one shot Cas.

Now I'm not too familiar with charmed, but this looks good for supernatural


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## Darth Nihilus (Feb 28, 2011)

Gabriel
Lucifer
Michael
Raphael
The Mother (not really much to say since we haven't seen any of her feats)
The other members of the Four Horseman
Zachariah

etc

Lucky Rabbit's Foot


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## Devil Kings (Feb 28, 2011)

Excalibur
The Avatars
Waste Land Powered Cole
The Demon of Fear
Angel of Death
Parallel World


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## Toriko (Feb 28, 2011)

are the thousands of reapers from Supernatural in?


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## Darth Nihilus (Feb 28, 2011)

I don't see them banned from the thread, so I guess they are


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## Devil Kings (Feb 28, 2011)

The reapers are fodders, they can even be taken over, or kill bu demons.


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## Shiorin (Feb 28, 2011)

How many Avatars did Charmed have?


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## DarkBladex96 (Feb 28, 2011)

Darth Nihilus said:


> How powerful is Charmed again?



They have beings like Shakti whom created the universe, and shiva who will end the universe. Angels of Fate whom control the destiny of the universe and maintian the grand design , similar to the cleaners. The greek gods, and titans whom are as powerful as in mythology.
etc.....
stuff like that


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## DarkBladex96 (Feb 28, 2011)

Shiorin said:


> How many Avatars did Charmed have?



10 with beta

12 with Cole and leo.


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## Darth Nihilus (Feb 28, 2011)

DarkBladex96 said:


> They have beings like Shakti whom created the universe, and shiva who will end the universe. Angels of Fate whom control the destiny of the universe and maintian the grand design , similar to the cleaners. The greek gods, and titans whom are as powerful as in mythology.
> etc.....
> stuff like that



Sounds like a huge nerfing for Supernatural if you're going to allow these characters in the fight, and not God, or at least Death.


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## DarkBladex96 (Feb 28, 2011)

Oh shakti and shiva are banned, i see i forgot to add that.

Angels of destiny might be to0 powerful ass well..


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## Shiorin (Feb 28, 2011)

Avatars IIRC are conceptual beings and had ridiculous amounts of reality warping power. They and the Elders should be around Supernatural's archangel level, but Charmed has more Avatars than Supernatural has archangels. Even the average magical creatures of Charmed are on the level of a high demon in Supernatural.


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## Toriko (Feb 28, 2011)

Cas is now above any arch angle with those artifacts he go this episode, he can literally one shot them with the lazarus stone, and by feats has low relativistic speed. Not sayin supernatural wil win tho.


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## DarkBladex96 (Feb 28, 2011)

Shiorin said:


> Avatars IIRC are conceptual beings and had ridiculous amounts of reality warping power. They and the Elders should be around Supernatural's archangel level, but Charmed has more Avatars than Supernatural has archangels. Even the average magical creatures of Charmed are on the level of a high demon in Supernatural.



the elders have alot of lore that says they should be powerful, but in the show they die pretty easily. Dispite the fact that they granted the zeus his powers.

Avatars are conceptual beings they are completely immune to the powers of those lower then them. Any single avatar can create alternate timelines with whatever history they want (cole did this), they can remove people from existance, but they need to be together and have help to pull a world wide reality warp plus, memory, and moral warp with total removal of a certain species.

Cas has low relativistic travel speeds if im not mistaken. doesnt really help unless hes going to.

Also all angel being able to travel through time is pretty hax.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 28, 2011)

Darth Nihilus said:


> How powerful is Charmed again?



several groups capable of global reality warping..one baby capable of low level reality altering..soul swiping..and power jacking...

and some various immortal demons capable of transmutation power stealing and what have you...cole being so powerful you needed to alter history to actually kill him and even then it does not seem to have stuck

The Elders where eluded to being very powerful indeed but their feats suck the olympian gods they created where powerful though...Angels of destiny have shown some serious mojo

and then there was a poor mans version of the council of god heads that seemed ubber..the problem is when ever every one was hyped up to be strong they jobbed like mother fuckers to the sisters



zenieth said:


> Terrible level.



being a man or a non new age numbnut concept meant you instantly sucked and where made of fail

good series 



Devil Kings said:


> Excalibur



featless



Devil Kings said:


> The Avatars



currently weakened and on the run



Devil Kings said:


> Waste Land Powered Cole



no longer exists



Devil Kings said:


> The Demon of Fear



hard to kill but other wise useless



Devil Kings said:


> Angel of Death



the other side has these too your forgot the janitor was that oblivion more then death 



Devil Kings said:


> Parallel World



...a really crappy one but true a force multiplier 



Shiorin said:


> How many Avatars did Charmed have?



not many left..and their powers directly depended on who was in the collective currently their nerfed as all hell unless the OP'er specifies both verses their nastiest 





DarkBladex96 said:


> They have beings like Shakti whom created the universe, and shiva who will end the universe. Angels of Fate whom control the destiny of the universe and maintian the grand design , similar to the cleaners. The greek gods, and titans whom are as powerful as in mythology.
> etc.....
> stuff like that



okay first of all the titans in charmed didn't even remotely approach the power of their mythological counter parts nor did the greek gods if piper phoebe and page faced the actual Titans with their powers they'd of likely been massacred 

the cleaners being essentially a cosmic absolute will not get involved in this fight..unless the battle spills over to the mortal world and starts drawing attention then its MAD..as standard cleaner procedure to erase the offending persons from existence regardless of what side your on




Shiorin said:


> Avatars IIRC are conceptual beings and had ridiculous amounts of reality warping power. They and the Elders should be around Supernatural's archangel level, but Charmed has more Avatars than Supernatural has archangels. Even the average magical creatures of Charmed are on the level of a high demon in Supernatural.



The avatars have a very fragile hold on their power...and they're numbers aren't very high now and the elder sucked balls Gideon was really the only one that impressed me and he had access to the resources of a hogwarts rip off


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## Enclave (Feb 28, 2011)

Brohan said:


> Then of course you have the Archangels and Lucifer, who are all above even him, Lucifer solo'd a dozen other religion's gods who could all one shot Cas.



They could one shot Season 5 Cas.  Not the case with Season 6 Cas.  Remember, when God revived Castiel at the end of Season 5 he upgraded him as well.  It's very likely that Cas is now an Archangel.  Remember, there's 2 factions of angels in heaven fighting right now and Castiel is the leader of one of them.  This is also ignoring the weapons he recently received.


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## Toriko (Feb 28, 2011)

@Enclave

Remember that being an arch angel doesn't put you on Lucifer/Micheal level, as Lucifer godstomped a dozen gods that were all at least arch angel level. IMHO Cas with his upgrades still dies the same way he would against Lucifer the last time, by getting blown to chunks lol.


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## Toriko (Feb 28, 2011)

Also Enclave, off topic, but word is you think KH top tiers are FTL.


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## DarkBladex96 (Feb 28, 2011)

> okay first of all the titans in charmed didn't even remotely approach the power of their mythological counter parts nor did the greek gods if piper phoebe and page faced the actual Titans with their powers they'd of likely been massacred



well you are aware that the charmed one only beat the titans because they had the power of Gaea, Athena, Aphrodite? whom are also planetary beings in charmed lore. IE the eldaers released the greek gods powers to get rid of them or they feared the titans would destroy earth and themselves.

BTW, this is total full out universe on universe combat with everyone alive.




> featless



not true. Excalibur can 1 shot high lvl demons, such as mordant and the source, it is immune to potions, the wielder of Excalibur is considered an ultimate power, and the sword can return to its owner at a thought.



> the cleaners being essentially a cosmic absolute will not get involved in this fight..unless the battle spills over to the mortal world and starts drawing attention then its MAD..as standard cleaner procedure to erase the offending persons from existence regardless of what side your on.



1. The neutral stance only counts for thier universe because their alliance is to the grand design. Extra-universal forces should warrant intervention.
2. Angels spamming powers and across the globe and time travelling with the intention of killing of every magical being in the universe is definitely messing the the grand design and should warrant intervention.
3. Beings in supernatural dont really give a damn if anyone sees there powers.....this warrants intervention.
4. OBD rules say theyre all bloodlusted anyway so.........................


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## Enclave (Feb 28, 2011)

Brohan said:


> @Enclave
> 
> Remember that being an arch angel doesn't put you on Lucifer/Micheal level, as Lucifer godstomped a dozen gods that were all at least arch angel level. IMHO Cas with his upgrades still dies the same way he would against Lucifer the last time, by getting blown to chunks lol.



If Cas is now an Archangel he would definitely last longer than he did against Lucifer last time.  He'd likely still lose but he wouldn't be instantly destroyed.  His performance would likely be more akin to that of Gabriels.



Brohan said:


> Also Enclave, off topic, but word is you think KH top tiers are FTL.



Completely unrelated to the current topic and additionally you should have edited your post rather than double posting.  That said, I don't think they are FTL, they ARE FTL.  It's hard not being FTL when you can actually deflect lasers.

That said if in Kingdom Hearts: Dream Drop Distance has them clearly not that fast then I would easily accept that retcon.  However the most recent feats for Sora and Riku is them being FTL and thus they remain that until that gets retconned.  See, unlike SOME people on this forum I am not biased, I simply take feats at face value.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Mar 1, 2011)

DarkBladex96 said:


> well you are aware that the charmed one only beat the titans because they had the power of Gaea, Athena, Aphrodite? whom are also planetary beings in charmed lore. IE the eldaers released the greek gods powers to get rid of them or they feared the titans would destroy earth and themselves.



so? how does this change the fact that they didn't show their mythological counter parts better feats


DarkBladex96 said:


> BTW, this is total full out universe on universe combat with everyone alive.



so your stipulating this as the OP'er?




DarkBladex96 said:


> not true. Excalibur can 1 shot high lvl demons, such as mordant and the source, it is immune to potions, the wielder of Excalibur is considered an ultimate power, and the sword can return to its owner at a thought.



your acting like one shotting high level demons was impressive at that point in the series it stopped being impressive around season 2 or 3 when they became essentially fodder



DarkBladex96 said:


> 1. The neutral stance only counts for thier universe because their alliance is to the grand design. Extra-universal forces should warrant intervention.
> 2. Angels spamming powers and across the globe and time travelling with the intention of killing of every magical being in the universe is definitely messing the the grand design and should warrant intervention.
> 3. Beings in supernatural dont really give a damn if anyone sees there powers.....this warrants intervention.
> 4. OBD rules say theyre all bloodlusted anyway so.........................



blood lusted does not take away CIS only mitigates it..so unless your stipulating they're gonna get involved unless CIS is completely off they'd still invade


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## Vault (Mar 1, 2011)

Avatars
The Source
The triad 

Besides Wyatt could reality warp, he pulls out all the powerful characters in fiction, GG


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## DarkBladex96 (Mar 1, 2011)

> so? how does this change the fact that they didn't show their mythological counter parts better feats



dude, piper could have effortlessly destroyed the city and she the split the earth to the core effortlessly. Besides thats lore it doesnt need feats thats what happened thats why it happened.



> your acting like one shotting high level demons was impressive at that point in the series it stopped being impressive around season 2 or 3 when they became essentially fodder



the source fodder? the only reason high lvl demons in charmed became fodder was because cole was there,  leo had become an elder, and everytime a demon attacked LAWL plot came in and didnt let them finish the demon off giving them hours or days of prep. The source would still be a legit threat if the higher powers hadnt been revealed.

blood lusted does not take away CIS only mitigates it..so unless your stipulating they're gonna get involved unless CIS is completely off they'd still invade



> so your stipulating this as the OP'er?



yes

i may have misinterpreted bloodlust, but the other three reasons for them to get involved still stand.


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## DarkBladex96 (Mar 1, 2011)

Vault said:


> Avatars
> The Source
> The triad
> 
> Besides Wyatt could reality warp, he pulls out all the powerful characters in fiction, GG



Cant gabriel make imaginary things real as well? 
also charmed would have that kid who can make his drawings and his interpretation of the drawing real.


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## Enclave (Mar 1, 2011)

Don't forget that Supernatural also has Jesse Turner the super reality warping boy who can do pretty much whatever he wants thanks to his Antichrist powers.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Mar 1, 2011)

The Hollow--------


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Mar 1, 2011)

DarkBladex96 said:


> dude, piper could have effortlessly destroyed the city and she the split the earth to the core effortlessly. Besides thats lore it doesnt need feats thats what happened thats why it happened.



global level earth quakes and volcanic eruptions and what have you literally being the sun..an entire ocean the concept of time and the primordial abyss that was outside creation *that's* what titans are capable of in greek mythology

piper was fuck all compared to that or to my knowledge the feats of the real gaia who among other things popped out typhon for christs takes



DarkBladex96 said:


> the source fodder?



he went from being all powerful enigmatic force of darkness to being a political figure who came to power after murdering the last one then getting blasted to pieces after jobbing out to coles hollow power up

then later on we find that guys like kurzon who got one shotted by the power of three was far beyond the sources ability to put down and Zanku who while certainly dangerous crafty and cunning..was beyond his ability to permanently kill

the guy went from a shadowy scary conceptual being to a politician/warlord who had to exile and banish enemies




DarkBladex96 said:


> the only reason high lvl demons in charmed became fodder was because cole was there,  leo had become an elder, and everytime a demon attacked LAWL plot came in and didnt let them finish the demon off giving them hours or days of prep.



your also forgetting piper casually soloing entire rooms of them with a finger flick despite them prior to that being able to resist their powers and them being lul stomped and treated like jokes by piper to the extent that they had to come crawling to her at the end of the series and openly admitted piper killed so many of their number that they where effectively a paper tiger and needed two generations to recover and thus openly agreed to a peace treaty

going from being an entire season long villian...or major episode arc baddy to being fodderized to the point where only the scrubs remain and say "we're effectively an endangered species thanks to you"

is the definition of fodder




DarkBladex96 said:


> The source would still be a legit threat if the higher powers hadnt been revealed.



with this you only validate my point




DarkBladex96 said:


> yes



very well then



DarkBladex96 said:


> i may have misinterpreted bloodlust, but the other three reasons for them to get involved still stand.



charmed should win this then though by the looks of it with mad casualties



Cthulhu-versailles said:


> The Hollow--------



you'd think that fall under no omnipotents rule on account of how broken it is though


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## Enclave (Mar 1, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> charmed should win this then though by the looks of it with mad casualties



Does Charmed have an answer to Jesse Turner?  It's hinted that he's the reason why when Dean was sent to the future that all the angels no longer existed save for Lucifer.

We're talking about a kid who could probably wipe Lucifer from existence if he put his mind to it, but he's NOT omnipotent.  But for the purposes of this topic he probably is close enough to omnipotent that he's disallowed.


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## Toriko (Mar 1, 2011)

@ Enclave

lol no need to get defensive, i said i was going off topic to ask you a personal question. i didn't edit because 9/10 im typing on a psp lol.(I agree with you on that matter)

On topic, Cas' speed may be combat speed based on a statement he made last season. Dean says "Your fast, those angels wont give you much trouble", in which Cas says something like, "No they're faster".


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## The Death Bringer (Mar 2, 2011)

I was gonna say Death and God pwns all until i read the no Death or God rule 

Supernatural still has crap load though
Micheal
Raphael
Gabriel
Lucifer
Castiel
Zacariah
Uriel
the legions of angels
The Antichrist
War
Pestilence
Famine

Supernatural also has some pretty powerful weapons here
The Colt
*Death's Scythe*
the keys to the cage


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## Jon Snow (Mar 2, 2011)

Balthazar vs. Dean w/ Rabbit's foot.


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## CrazyMoronX (Mar 2, 2011)

Charmed has better high-level characters.

The level of casual time manipulation, reality warping, and instant kills is much higher than Supernatural where angels (even powerful ones like Anna) struggle to travel through time. Avatar Cole solos.


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## Sylar (Mar 2, 2011)

Anna was not an archangel.

Archangels like Lucifer and Gabriel >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regular angels like Anna and Uriel.

And Jesse Turner > Lucifer.


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## Alucardemi (Mar 2, 2011)

Sylar said:


> Anna was not an archangel.
> 
> Archangels like Lucifer and Gabriel >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regular angels like Anna and Uriel.
> 
> And Jesse Turner > Lucifer.



Not really. Currently the Anti-Christ's powers are unknown and probably untapped, until his next showing all he has demonstrated is low-level reality warping.

Something Gabriel does as easily as breathing or blinking.


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## Enclave (Mar 3, 2011)

Alucardemi said:


> Not really. Currently the Anti-Christ's powers are unknown and probably untapped, until his next showing all he has demonstrated is low-level reality warping.
> 
> Something Gabriel does as easily as breathing or blinking.



It was heavily implied that Jessie Turner was the one responsible for all the angels save Lucifer no longer existing in the future.

Jessie most definitely is stronger than Lucifer.  It's why the angels considered him such a threat and why Lucifer wanted Jessie.  He's the ultimate weapon in the Supernatural verse.


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## Vault (Mar 3, 2011)

Implied were exactly? I dont remember seeing or hearing that part


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## Enclave (Mar 3, 2011)

Vault said:


> Implied were exactly? I dont reading seeing or hearing that part



I'd have to watch the episode where Dean went to the future and the episode where Jesse was introduced to remember exactly.  Been a while since I watched those.  But I'm fairly certain it was implied in the same episode he was introduced.

Also note, even if you ignore that capability of his he still turned Castiel (who was fully an Angel at the time) into a doll, completely stripping him of all his power and did so effortlessly.


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## Vault (Mar 3, 2011)

Im not arguing with that, but charmed has reality warpers as well you know.


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## Alucardemi (Mar 3, 2011)

Enclave said:


> I'd have to watch the episode where Dean went to the future and the episode where Jesse was introduced to remember exactly.  Been a while since I watched those.  But I'm fairly certain it was implied in the same episode he was introduced.
> 
> Also note, even if you ignore that capability of his he still turned Castiel (who was fully an Angel at the time) into a doll, completely stripping him of all his power and did so effortlessly.



I don't recall it ever being implied that the death of the heavenly host was Jesse's doing.

It was implied that he could potentially do it however.


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## Enclave (Mar 3, 2011)

Here's the quote



> CASTIEL
> With Lucifer risen, this child grows strong. Soon, he will do more than just make a few toys come to life—something that will draw the demons to him. The demons will find this child. Lucifer will twist this boy to his purpose. And then, with a word, this child will destroy the Host of Heaven.
> 
> DEAN
> ...



Also the implication comes from the fact that Dean was sent to the future where all the angels no longer existed.  How can you not see the blatant implication?  The only one who's been stated to have that kind of power is Jesse.  It's NOT a power that Lucifer has.


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## Shiorin (Mar 3, 2011)

They sent an archangel to protect Chuck from Lilith just being in the same room, but they were so afraid of Jesse that they sent little old Castiel?


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## Enclave (Mar 3, 2011)

Shiorin said:


> They sent an archangel to protect Chuck from Lilith just being in the same room, but they were so afraid of Jesse that they sent little old Castiel?



Jesse was unlocatable by demons or angels.  Castiel was the first angel to find him thanks to Sam and Dean finding Jesse and calling Castiel.

Chuck on the other hand was never unknown to the angels.

Here's a quote:



> SAM and DEAN enter the motel room. They both look up: CASTIEL is waiting for them.
> 
> SAM
> I take it you got our message.
> ...


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## Final Giku Tenshou (Mar 3, 2011)

I haven't seen or watched of all of Supernatural, but I have seen enough of the episode with Jesse Turner to know that everything Enclave has said thus far is true. Neither of the two (Angels or Demons) were able to locate him until Dean and Sam did at which point Castiel knew of his location, and despite the lack of true control over his power he *was *still able to effortlessly turn Castiel, an angel, into a doll.

Since he is the only one implied to have such a huge power (and not even Lucifer is implied capable of being able to do so) it's very likely (but not confirmed) that he is the most powerful person in the series next to God and Death.


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## Alucardemi (Mar 3, 2011)

Isn't Chuck actually God in disguise? Or is that just a rumor?


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## Enclave (Mar 3, 2011)

Alucardemi said:


> Isn't Chuck actually God in disguise? Or is that just a rumor?



We never received 100% confirmation on it but the implication was so strong that you'd be a fool to believe otherwise.


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## Shiorin (Mar 3, 2011)

It doesn't matter. Jesse can be dealt with by the combined power of the Avatars, or the Hollow, or maybe even Wyatt. With the entire population of Reapers, Supernatural can come close, but Charmed simply has more heavy hitters.


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## Tsukiyomi (Mar 4, 2011)

Enclave said:


> *It was heavily implied that Jessie Turner was the one responsible for all the angels save Lucifer no longer existing in the future.*
> 
> Jessie most definitely is stronger than Lucifer.  It's why the angels considered him such a threat and why Lucifer wanted Jessie.  He's the ultimate weapon in the Supernatural verse.



No it wasn't, the angels were implied to have willingly left the universe since they couldn't get Dean to agree to be Michael's vessel.

And Jessie is not more powerful than Lucifer.  Remember Jesse was supposed to be on Lucifer's side but Lucifer's side was still going to lose to Michael.  That would indicate that as powerful as he was he was still below the archangels.

That said it _was_ said he could lay waste to most of the heavenly host simply with a word.  Imagine the full extent of his power being used in battle, he could wipe out the vast majority of the Charmed creatures and characters in an instant.

If all of the angels are tapped into heaven I give this to them.  That would essentially create thousands upon thousands of reality warpers and time travelers.

Even lower angels like Zachariah seemed to have almost unlimited levels of reality warping ability and the ability to casually send people through time.

That's not even factoring in all the divine weaponry of heaven.

And if you take the currently Supernatural story into consideration you have to factor in purgatory.  Any monsters from the Supernatural world that were killed would simply go to purgatory where they could just be released like Mother was.

Add to that weapons like Death's Scythe and the Colt which can kill anything and I'd say things stack up pretty nicely in favor of the Supernatural universe.


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## DarkBladex96 (Mar 4, 2011)

> Add to that weapons like Death's Scythe and the Colt which can kill anything and I'd say things stack up pretty nicely in favor of the Supernatural universe.



the colt killing anything was proven to be false.



> If all of the angels are tapped into heaven I give this to them. That would essentially create thousands upon thousands of reality warpers and time travelers.



id love to keep it to only named characters, but im unsure.....you guys decide.


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## Tsukiyomi (Mar 5, 2011)

DarkBladex96 said:


> the colt killing anything was proven to be false.



They said there were only 5 things it couldn't kill.  In an entire universe of beings it can only not kill 5 things.  I think that's still enough to make it a factor in this battle.  It would be able to kill most if not all of the characters of Charmed.



DarkBladex96 said:


> id love to keep it to only named characters, but im unsure.....you guys decide.



If you want to leave it to named characters ok, I was mainly bringing that up to point out that if it were universe to universe we have a potentially extremely high number of angels wielding vast levels of power.  If its just named characters that leaves us with the archangels, Zacariah and beings like the anti-christ with vast levels of reality warping power.

I think though giving Supernatural access to all the reapers might be enough by itself to sway the fight.  The reapers cannot be perceived by any normal beings and since they are agents of death itself you cannot run from them and they're nigh impossible to kill.

Not to mention their ability to move about instantaneously anywhere they wish.  And there is enough of them to keep up with every person in the world dying at any given moment, possibly hundreds from what we've seen.


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## Banhammer (Mar 5, 2011)

Castiel's natural form is a divine intent being of wrath of the size of the chrisler's building. Without whiping out Heaven's weapons.
Yeah. It's a rape.


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## Banhammer (Mar 5, 2011)

Shiorin said:


> They sent an archangel to protect Chuck


Chuck was God. Didn't really need protection.


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