# Aoda vs Manda



## Troyse22 (Aug 28, 2016)

Location: Sannin vs Hanzo


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## t0xeus (Aug 28, 2016)

Tough one, imo they are even.

Considering Aoda is younger I'll go with her.


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## Troyse22 (Aug 28, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Manda is more of a douche , evil , and aggressive, sadistic



Fixed for you haha

Bloodlusted 24/7...ikr? Wtf is he so angry about.

I don't think Aoda is a "cream puff" he's just more respectful and loyal than Manda, 

That's like saying Enma is a cream puff because he holds Hiruzen in high regard 

And yeah, while I think Manda would be slightly stronger than Aoda, Aoda is also a great deal faster, that's why I thought it would be a good matchup.


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## Bonly (Aug 28, 2016)

Hard to say since we haven't seen much from either one but I'd go with Manda since he impressed me more

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## wooly Eullerex (Aug 28, 2016)

bunta solos


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## Android (Aug 28, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Fixed for you haha


Thank you 


Troyse22 said:


> Bloodlusted 24/7...ikr? Wtf is he so angry about.


He hates being an Orochimaru's (or anybody's for that matter) slave , remember , he would've turned against Oro if he knew about his sickness .


Troyse22 said:


> I don't think Aoda is a "cream puff" he's just more respectful and loyal than Manda,


Hmmm , i agree , but he kinda acts more like a " slug " instead of a " snake " 
Maybe he has a personality confusion 
Maybe he thinks he's a Slug .
Like that girl Mammoth in " Ice Age " that she used to think she's a " squirrel 


Troyse22 said:


> That's like saying Enma is a cream puff because he holds Hiruzen in high regard


True true 


Troyse22 said:


> And yeah, while I think Manda would be slightly stronger than Aoda, Aoda is also a great deal faster, that's why I thought it would be a good matchup.


He's far faster and mobile abviously , and maybe slightly bigger , that's why i'm going with him more times than not

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Isaiah13000 (Aug 29, 2016)

Manda is still bigger than Aoda, compare Manda to Gamabunta and Katsuyu, and then compare Aoda to Gamakichi (who is slightly smaller than his father) and Katsuyu, and you can see the size difference. Manda also completely dominated Tsunade, Katsuyu, Jiraiya, and Gamabunta all back-to-back on his own and only lost cause they double teamed him. He was fast enough to move his entire enormous body away from Katsuyu's acid (which is actually pretty big when scaled with her body) after she fired it at close range and blitz her, and later do the same Gamabunta. I also believe, according to Seelentau's translation of the fourth databook that Aoda's strength was stated to be close to Manda's own, so Manda is still the strongest and largest of all the snakes in the world. Well he was, before Manda II came into existence, who is the largest and strongest there is now.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sapherosth (Aug 29, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Manda is more badass , evil , and aggressive, sadistic , and bloodlusted 24/7 . While Aoda seemed to be a cream puff compared to him . But Aoda is faster and *he seemed to be slightly bigger than Manda 2.0 who's slightly bigger than Manda *.
> Tough one , but i'll go with Aoda since Kishi's intent is always to be " the new generations always surpasses the old once "  .
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Fixed






Are you even aware of how big Manda 2 is ?


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## Android (Aug 29, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> Are you even aware of how big Manda 2 is ?


Not exactly , can you show me ?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Godaime Tsunade (Aug 29, 2016)

Manda II is big enough to coil itself around the Island Turtle, which is compared to the Forest of Death in size, iirc. He's much, much larger than Manda.


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## Android (Aug 29, 2016)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Manda II is big enough to coil itself around the Island Turtle,


What the fuck ???!!!!

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## uchihakil (Aug 29, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Manda is still bigger than Aoda, compare Manda to Gamabunta and Katsuyu, and then compare Aoda to Gamakichi (who is slightly smaller than his father) and Katsuyu, and you can see the size difference. Manda also completely dominated Tsunade, Katsuyu, Jiraiya, and Gamabunta all back-to-back on his own and only lost cause they double teamed him. He was fast enough to move his entire enormous body away from Katsuyu's acid (which is actually pretty big when scaled with her body) after she fired it at close range and blitz her, and later do the same Gamabunta. I also believe, according to Seelentau's translation of the fourth databook that Aoda's strength was stated to be close to Manda's own, so Manda is still the strongest and largest of all the snakes in the world. Well he was, before Manda II came into existence, who is the largest and strongest there is now.



Could'nt have said it better, Manda was the most badass summon IMO


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## Troyse22 (Aug 29, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Manda also completely dominated Tsunade, Katsuyu, Jiraiya, and Gamabunta all back-to-back on his own and only lost cause they double teamed him



What? Katsuyu alone would stomp Manda, neg-low diff.


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## Android (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> What? Katsuyu alone would stomp Manda, neg-low diff.

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## Troyse22 (Aug 29, 2016)

Doubting you read the manga if you believe Katsuyu can't low diff Manda. Acid if he tries to swallow her whole, she breaks apart when he tries to constrict her etc. There's no summon by non legendary/god tier shinobi that can put Katsuyu down.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Troyse22 (Aug 29, 2016)

I'd go as far to say that Katsuyu could low diff Manda II, she's simply in a class of her own in terms of summons.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 29, 2016)

Aoda hasn't done much. Manda has a bigger head and he can shed his skin and shit. Not sure if it helps in a battle against another snake though. 

Its impossible to call this because AODA lacks feats.


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## Sapherosth (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> I'd go as far to say that Katsuyu could low diff Manda II, she's simply in a class of her own in terms of summons.




She's just a bad counter to snakes in general. 

Gamabunta would beat her.


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## Troyse22 (Aug 29, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> She's just a bad counter to snakes in general.
> 
> Gamabunta would beat her.



How does he kill her?


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## t0xeus (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> How does he kill her?


He probably means fire+oil combo.


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## Isaiah13000 (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> What? Katsuyu alone would stomp Manda, neg-low diff.


 I know Katsuyu can beat Manda, that doesn't change the fact though that Manda is physically stronger and faster.


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## Troyse22 (Aug 29, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> I know Katsuyu can beat Manda, that doesn't change the fact though that Manda is physically stronger and faster.



Did I say Katsuyu was stronger and faster? Tsunade is stronger and more reflexive than Orochimaru, but he'd still stomp her.

Katsuyu is one of the most Op summons in manga, manda and manda II don't even brush the bar. Everything Katsuyu does counters Manda.


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## Isaiah13000 (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Did I say Katsuyu was stronger and faster? Tsunade is stronger and more reflexive than Orochimaru, but he'd still stomp her.
> 
> Katsuyu is one of the most Op summons in manga, manda and manda II don't even brush the bar. Everything Katsuyu does counters Manda.


I'm well aware of how powerful Katsuyu is dude, I'm one of her main advocates. All I'm saying is that he still overwhelmed and blitzed her in combat, as well as the others which is impressive but yes she could easily kill him.

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## Troyse22 (Aug 29, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> I'm well aware of how powerful Katsuyu is dude, I'm one of her main advocates. All I'm saying is that he still overwhelmed and blitzed her in combat, as well as the others which is impressive but yes she could easily kill him.



Shee didn't get overwhelmed or blitzed, she had Tsunade right on top of her, she couldn't do anything at the risk of hurting Tsunade. If she was alone with Manda she would have bathed his ass in acid.

Your post makes 2 points it's confusing on one hand you agree that Katsuyu is very powerful and can beat Manda, on the other you say she got blitzed by him


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## HandfullofNaruto (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Shee didn't get overwhelmed or blitzed, she had Tsunade right on top of her, she couldn't do anything at the risk of hurting Tsunade. If she was alone with Manda she would have bathed his ass in acid. Your post makes 2 points it's confusing on one hand you agree that Katsuyu is very powerful and can beat Manda, on the other you say she got blitzed by him


Manda speed blitzed Katsuyu. He wrapped around her entire body instantly while dodging Zesshi Nensan. Katsuyu is God and yadda yadda but it doesn't change Mandas feats.
OT: Manda has better feats than Aoda and is said to be the most powerful Python. He should take this fight Mid-Difficulty.


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## Isaiah13000 (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Shee didn't get overwhelmed or blitzed, she had Tsunade right on top of her, she couldn't do anything at the risk of hurting Tsunade. If she was alone with Manda she would have bathed his ass in acid.
> 
> Your post makes 2 points it's confusing on one hand you agree that Katsuyu is very powerful and can beat Manda, on the other you say she got blitzed by him


 She did though, he easily dodged her acid and coiled around her entire body in the next panel with her only reaction being "!". It's pretty clear she got blitzed, Tsunade has nothing to do with it. She already tried acid and he dodged it, now if he swallowed her whole then yes she would split up and flood his insides with acid and kill him. I already agree she can beat him, but that's because Manda cannot harm her and he can't bite or swallow her without dying. That, however, doesn't change that his overall physical prowess is better alright?

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## Troyse22 (Aug 29, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Manda speed blitzed Katsuyu. He wrapped around her entire body instantly while dodging Zesshi Nensan



See, she got wrapped around while Tsunade was on top of her, that's technically a restriction, and based on Katsuyu's personality, it's a VERY heavy restriction. Manda knew Katsuyu wouldn't do anything drastic with Tsunade there, that's why he was able to, relatively carlessly, speed straight at her and coil around her.



Isaiah13000 said:


> Tsunade has nothing to do with it





Katsuyu was begging Tsunade to gtfo so she could react to Manda, saying Tsunade had nothing to do with it is like saying Itachi is just as powerful without genjutsu, it's just unfounded silliness.



Isaiah13000 said:


> She already tried acid and he dodged it



You mean that tiny little bit of acid that's not even 1/100th of what Katsuyu can do, because she was afraid of hurting everyone around? Alright then, solid point.ck





Isaiah13000 said:


> That, however, doesn't change that his overall physical prowess is better alright?



Already agreed that Manda is faster and stronger than Katusyu, that doesn't change the fact that Katsuyu is overall a more threatening opponent. I already dressed it and compared it to Oro and Tsuna

Yes Manda is faster and stronger, but all that is absolutely MEANINGLESS in a fight with Katsuyu.



HandfullofNaruto said:


> Manda has better feats than Aoda and is said to be the most powerful Python.



What feats does Manda have that make it a mid diff fight for him? 

Yes he coiled around Katsuyu, I already addressed why that was possible.

Aoda effortlessly dodged 10 tails clones.

Manda has showed greater strength than Aoda, but, deny it all you want, Aoda has proved himself MUCH faster than Manda.


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## Lord Aizen (Aug 29, 2016)

Manda seems bigger, fiercer, and is far more experienced he wins


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## Troyse22 (Aug 29, 2016)

Lord Aizen said:


> more experienced




Great point, glad someone took that into consideration, he's surely been in more fights than Aoda.



Lord Aizen said:


> bigger,





It's specifically stated that they're about the same size.



Lord Aizen said:


> fiercer



not sure how that applies to his actual battle capabilities.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> See, she got wrapped around while Tsunade was on top of her, that's technically a restriction, and based on Katsuyu's personality, it's a VERY heavy restriction. Manda knew Katsuyu wouldn't do anything drastic with Tsunade there, that's why he was able to, relatively carlessly, speed straight at her and coil around her.


Manda did this with Kabuto & Orochimaru on his head so he had double of this ridiculous restriction. Where is it stated that Katsuyu was holding back significantly? 





> Katsuyu was begging Tsunade to gtfo so she could react to Manda, saying Tsunade had nothing to do with it is like saying Itachi is just as powerful without genjutsu, it's just unfounded silliness.


Katsuyu begged Tsunade?? What are you talking about?





> You mean that tiny little bit of acid that's not even 1/100th of what Katsuyu can do, because she was afraid of hurting everyone around? Alright then, solid point.


Uhm what? It was just a regular Zesshi Nensan. How does Tsunadws presence limit her ability?





> Already agreed that Manda is faster and stronger than Katusyu, that doesn't change the fact that Katsuyu is overall a more threatening opponent. I already dressed it and compared it to Oro and Tsuna


Katsuyu being a more threatening opponent doesn't change Mandas feats in the slightest. 





> Yes Manda is faster and stronger, but all that is absolutely MEANINGLESS in a fight with Katsuyu.


Yea because if he tries to bite her she can acid blast the living shit out of his mouth. We know this.





> What feats does Manda have that make it a mid diff fight for him?


He tangled with Gamabunta + Katsuyu + Jiraiya + Tsunade and survived. Not to mention Orochimaru didn't even help him in the slightest. He also survived being stabbed through the head. Better feats. Better portrayal. Mid-Dif fight.





> Yes he coiled around Katsuyu, I already addressed why that was possible.


Not exactly. 





> Aoda effortlessly dodged 10 tails clones.


Thats regular snake sensing that Manda already possess. 





> Manda has showed greater strength than Aoda, but, deny it all you want, Aoda has proved himself MUCH faster than Manda.


No he has not. He lacks the feats and the portrayal to say he surpassed Manda in any way is dead-wrong.


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## Troyse22 (Aug 29, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Manda did this with Kabuto & Orochimaru on his head so he had double of this ridiculous restriction. Where is it stated that Katsuyu was holding back significantly?



And Manda doesn't give a single solitary shit for the safety and well being of friend or foe.

Idk if I can address the rest of your post, cause all of it is pure trolling, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not trolling.

"Tsunade, please, I need to do it now" sounds like begging to me, (i'm not sure if those were her exact words but if it wasn't, it was something very similar)

It wasn't only Tsunade's presence Katsuyu is worried about, knowing Katsuyu, she was also worried about Naruto, Jiraiya and Gamabunta.

And also, Manda got stabbed through the mouth, that's not like stabbing him right through his head/brain. It's the equivalent of getting stabbed through the cheek as a human being. While painful, is not life threatening.




HandfullofNaruto said:


> Not exactly.





Troyse22 said:


> she got wrapped around while Tsunade was on top of her, that's technically a restriction, and based on Katsuyu's personality, it's a VERY heavy restriction



Do not troll on my threads please, I addressed it.

The reason I didn't quote other parts of your post is because I believe you're trolling, therefore, i'm not putting in the extra effort.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> And Manda doesn't give a single solitary shit for the safety and well being of friend or foe.


If you read the manga you'd know they made an agreement to fight together in that battle.





> Idk if I can address the rest of your post, cause all of it is pure trolling, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not trolling.


Did @Troyse22 the man who said Yondaime Hokage would be no-diffed by Itachi just say I'm a troll? Oh my goodness.





> "Tsunade, please, I need to do it now" sounds like begging to me, (i'm not sure if those were her exact words but if it wasn't, it was something very similar)


Bring the manga scan dude.





> It wasn't only Tsunade's presence Katsuyu is worried about, knowing Katsuyu, she was also worried about Naruto, Jiraiya and Gamabunta.


Worrying about her teammates isn't a restriction considering she didn't do anything to save them other than get out of the way. Manda having to worry about four opponents... Katsuyu having to worry about her three team mates... not the same thing. 





> And also, Manda got stabbed through the mouth, that's not like stabbing him right through his head/brain. It's the equivalent of getting stabbed through the cheek as a human being. While painful, is not life threatening.


Youre right that durability feat isn't that impressive and not that applicable... though Manda did tank C0 and retain his form. He didnt completely turn to ash which is more than Aoda can do when it comes to durability feats. 





> Do not troll on my threads please, I addressed it.


It wasn't "addressed" you just said that Tsunade was in the way of Katsuyu. You told us that the summoner got in the way of the summons power..





> The reason I didn't quote other parts of your post is because I believe you're trolling, therefore, i'm not putting in the extra effort.


You got to swim in the kiddie pool before you swim in the deep end. @cctr9

Reactions: Useful 1 | Dislike 1


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## Troyse22 (Aug 29, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Did @Troyse22 the man who said Yondaime Hokage would be no-diffed by Itachi just say I'm a troll? Oh my goodness.



Tsukoyomi gg? Tsukoyomi gg.



HandfullofNaruto said:


> Bring the manga scan dude.



My apologies, I guess she only says that in the Anime, just looked for the scan and she doesn't say it in the manga, guess its been a while since i've read/seen either one and I just kinda put em together. I concede that point.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Tsukoyomi gg? Tsukoyomi gg.


"GG" is a trolling signature imo.





> My apologies, I guess she only says that in the Anime, just looked for the scan and she doesn't say it in the manga, guess its been a while since i've read/seen either one and I just kinda put em together. I concede that point.


Alright then.
So if you concede to that point you know that Katsuyu was not shown to be significantly holding back. Aside from the fact that she wasn't shown to be significantly holding back we also know she had little concern when it came to her team-mates. She didn't go out of her way to protect Naruto, Jiraiya or Gamabunta. 

It's safe to say Manda speed-blitzed her and she wasn't holding back to protect Tsunade. You also never addressed anything I said about Manda & Aoda but whatever.


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## Troyse22 (Aug 29, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> "GG" is a trolling signature imo.Alright then.
> So if you concede to that point you know that Katsuyu was not shown to be significantly holding back. Aside from the fact that she wasn't shown to be significantly holding back we also know she had little concern when it came to her team-mates. She didn't go out of her way to protect Naruto, Jiraiya or Gamabunta.
> 
> It's safe to say Manda speed-blitzed her and she wasn't holding back to protect Tsunade. You also never addressed anything I said about Manda & Aoda but whatever.



I've addressed everything, some points i've addressed twice, saying I didn't address them when I did is not an argument...


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## HandfullofNaruto (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> I've addressed everything, some points i've addressed twice, saying I didn't address them when I did is not an argument...


Im not using it as an argument. I just figured you forgot to address it. No you didn't address _my _points once. You said Aoda is faster. I told you why he isn't. You never addressed it. I told how Manda has better durability feats & you ignored it. You haven't addressed my points. I usually read the entire thread before I make a comment because I don't like to bring up points that have been addressed multiple times.

Now address my points or concede to the fact that Manda > Aoda. Feats + Portrayal. The only Portrayal that Aoda has going for it is the fact that EMS Sasuke summoned it. Other than that Aoda is literally less than Manda in every aspect.


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## Troyse22 (Aug 29, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Im not using it as an argument. I just figured you forgot to address it. No you didn't address _my _points once. You said Aoda is faster. I told you why he isn't. You never addressed it. I told how Manda has better durability feats & you ignored it. You haven't addressed my points. I usually read the entire thread before I make a comment because I don't like to bring up points that have been addressed multiple times.
> 
> Now address my points or concede to the fact that Manda > Aoda. Feats + Portrayal. The only Portrayal that Aoda has going for it is the fact that EMS Sasuke summoned it. Other than that Aoda is literally less than Manda in every aspect.



Last time, if you ignore it, i'm reporting you, I will address your points, if I missed something, inform me.

Aoda is faster because he was able to react to 10 tails clones without even looking at them, Manda has never, not ONCE shown the ability to do anything like that. He has no notable speed feats that put him anywhere near Aoda.

Manda died from C0. That's like saying welp, P1 Naruto tanked 500 TBBS, I mean, he's dust now, but he still tanked them. Dying from something doesn't mean you tanked it, that's such crap logic.

Manda got stabbed through the mouth, I already addressed that.

Aoda has speed feats over Manda, Manda has strength feats over Aoda.


In terms of portrayal, don't be ridiculous. It was Kishi's sole intent with the new three way summoning to show how all of them have surpassed their masters (or in Sakura's case, become equal). Implying that Aoda>Manda, or at the very least, equality.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Android (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Tsukoyomi gg? Tsukoyomi gg.


Lol no ? Lol no .
Seriously man , One doesn't need the sharingan to see through your trolling on this one .
OMG ! thank you .

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## HandfullofNaruto (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Last time, if you ignore it, i'm reporting you, I will address your points, if I missed something, inform me.


lol report me I have done nothing wrong. You're (as usual) getting the wrong vibe from me. 





> Aoda is faster because he was able to react to 10 tails clones without even looking at them, Manda has never, not ONCE shown the ability to do anything like that. He has no notable speed feats that put him anywhere near Aoda.


I told you, Aoda doing that is nothing less than snake sensing. I put my money on Manda being able to replicate the feat. Neither of them capitalize on speed, it's just a natural part of their arsenal. 
*Spoiler*: _Databook 2 - Manda_ 




Manda pg 156
A python that lives with an aggressive nature and evil wildness

(Pic of Oro standing on Snake)
There is no such thing as trust b/w the summoned and the summoner.
"Oi, Orochimaru...Did you have to summon me to this annoying situation?!"

You bastard...I'll eat you up!(Pic of snake head)

A summon that is hard to control because of its aggressive nature. With its hideous eyes and great power of destruction, there is no emotion of 'terror' for this violent entity that wants to take over everything (he and oro should get married !!!). It is an evil that is partners with Oro who also symbolizes evil.

"Its skin...Did it shed?"
The jutsus that utilize 100% of all the characteristics of a snake are also formidable!!



*Spoiler*: _Databook 4 - Aoda_ 



Aoda (アオダ)

Kana: アオダ
Databook romanisation: AODA

Village: —
Rank: —

Ninja registration number: —
Birthday: 1st October (? years old, Libra)
Height: ? cm Weight: ? kg Blood type: ?
Personality: Simple

↑ By weavingly making progress through the gaps between waiting enemies, it easily broke through the center of the enemy's lines!!

How [can I serve you? or so], Sasuke-sama

Boldly pushing forward without shaking, serving its master with loyalty, a calm and level-headed great python snake!

A big snake that lives in the Dragon Earth Cave and was summoned by Sasuke. It's endowed with a body and strength that comes close to Manda and Second Manda, as well as an infrared-ray sensing organ. It once saved Sasuke's life and has been loyal to him ever since. [TN: Not sure about this last sentence]
Translated by Seelentau





> Manda died from C0. That's like saying welp, P1 Naruto tanked 500 TBBS, I mean, he's dust now, but he still tanked them. Dying from something doesn't mean you tanked it, that's such crap logic.


Youre missing the point. He retained his physical form and didn't just disintegrate in the explosion. Mandas body survived the blast of C0 and that's durability.





> Manda got stabbed through the mouth, I already addressed that.


I already dismissed it.





> Aoda has speed feats over Manda, Manda has strength feats over Aoda.


Says you. Dodging Zesshi Nensan. An attack that is said to be terribly quick and unpredictable while going on the offensive and binding around Katsuyu in a moment. That's a speed feat not a strength feat. Reacting to Gamabuntas stab and then grabbing the sword and throwing it at him (while not even being phased by Katsuyu breaking into hundreds of pieces). That's a speed feats. Reacting to Gama Yudan, shedding his skin, burrowing underground, using his tail to distract Gamabunta, almost eating Gamabunta. That's a speed feat. Not a strength feat. What are Mandas strength feats?? 





> In terms of portrayal, don't be ridiculous. It was Kishi's sole intent with the new three way summoning to show how all of them have surpassed their masters (or in Sakura's case, become equal). Implying that Aoda>Manda, or at the very least, equality.


No, its specifically stated that his strength "comes close" to Mandas. Not rivals. Not exceeds. Not is equivalent. But comes close. Manda is superior. He's said to be the most powerful Python in the world. Gamakichi is stated to be less than Gamabunta. Katsuyu is Katsuyu so... you know lol.


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## Troyse22 (Aug 29, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> I put my money on Manda being able to replicate the feat.



Betting does not equate to fact, sorry, Manda wouldn't be able to replicate.



HandfullofNaruto said:


> Youre missing the point. He retained his physical form and didn't just disintegrate in the explosion. Mandas body survived the blast of C0 and that's durability.



YOU'RE the one who's missing the point. Dying from something does not equate to durability. Oh wow, I cut my own throat and ripped out my jugular, but I still retained my physical form, guess I tanked it right?



HandfullofNaruto said:


> An attack that is said to be terribly quick and unpredictable



As much as I love Katsuyu, as shown when Oro showed up to help Tsunade, a large amount of acid wouldn't be quick or unpredictable, as Oro was able to say "OI!!! Katsuyu, chill tf out fam, i'm chill!"




HandfullofNaruto said:


> No, its specifically stated that his strength "comes close" to Mandas. Not rivals. Not exceeds. Not is equivalent. But comes close.



I said Manda is superior in strength MULTIPLE times...

It also took Manda a bit to cross the field to Katsuyu and coil around her, guarantee Aoda could go it in half the time.



HandfullofNaruto said:


> What are Mandas strength feats??



Like you said, he's stronger than other snakes, he'd be able to break out of Jiraiya's mud swamp if need be.

He was able to take a sword through his mouth, showing annoyance, but little pain.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Betting does not equate to fact, sorry, Manda wouldn't be able to replicate.


Sorry, I'll change my terminology. Manda could replicate the feats. I've already explained why yet you chose not to even address its you just ignored it.





> YOU'RE the one who's missing the point. Dying from something does not equate to durability. Oh wow, I cut my own throat and ripped out my jugular, but I still retained my physical form, guess I tanked it right?


Deidara didn't rip out Mandas throat. Manda tanked an explosion and his physical body remained. An explosion, his entire body was enveloped in an explosion. I don't see why you're so confused. 





> As much as I love Katsuyu, as shown when Oro showed up to help Tsunade, a large amount of acid wouldn't be quick or unpredictable, as Oro was able to say "OI!!! Katsuyu, chill tf out fam, i'm chill!"


You don't get to agree or disagree. 
*Spoiler*: _ Databook 2 - Zesshi Nensan_ 



NINJUTSU; Zesshi Nensan (Tongue and Teeth Acidic Paste)
User: Katsuyu
Offensive; Close, Medium, Long Ranges; Rank: none

Main text

A highly concentrated acidic paste is suddenly released from the mouth! The acid boasts such high density and concentration it dilutes even stone, vaporizing it! There are no setup moves to do before this jutsu's activation. Thanks to this one can easily strike, catching the enemy unawares, which has the advantage of denying them any opportunity to dodge.

Caption

-Thawing, dissolving and melting* into nothingness, the rain of strong acid causes everything to fade away.

Picture comment

-The acidic rain is spilled out all of a sudden, with a timing that won't even allow for anticipation! All things it touches will melt away, losing their shapes once and for all (tn: confusing sentence: I don't know if I got it 100% right).


Your example doesn't really work in the sense that Katsuyu was threatening him.





> I said Manda is superior in strength MULTIPLE times...


Yea, being superior in strength and also said to be the most powerful Python in the world.





> It also took Manda a bit to cross the field to Katsuyu and coil around her, guarantee Aoda could go it in half the time.


No you can't guarantee that at all. Aodas speed feats are nothing less than Mandas. If anything Mandas should superior. 





> Like you said, he's stronger than other snakes, he'd be able to break out of Jiraiya's mud swamp if need be.


Thats not feats that's portrayal and speculation.





> He was able to take a sword through his mouth, showing annoyance, but little pain.


Thats durability not strength. 

You didn't address Mandas speed feats. In fact you ignored them completely. You can't just cherry pick my posts and expect to get some sort of concession. Mandas better than Aoda in every aspect.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Android (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Betting does not equate to fact, sorry, Manda wouldn't be able to replicate.


 
Even those SA fodders were reacting and stomping the Jubbi's clones 
But you think Manda can't react to them ???

Reactions: Agree 2 | Dislike 1


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## Troyse22 (Aug 29, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Sorry, I'll change my terminology. Manda could replicate the feats. I've already explained why yet you chose not to even address its you just ignored it.Deidara didn't rip out Mandas throat. Manda tanked an explosion and his physical body remained. An explosion, his entire body was enveloped in an explosion. I don't see why you're so confused. You don't get to agree or disagree.
> *Spoiler*: _ Databook 2 - Zesshi Nensan_
> 
> 
> ...



I never expect concessions on the BD, people are far too stubborn. Aoda is portrayed above Manda, as with the new three way summoning, it was clearly intended to show how the students surpassed their masters, and I personally believe Gamakichi to be above Gamabunta, as Gamakichi can use SM.

I'll address you more tomorrow, but this debate has gotten stale, will continue it tomorrow, but i'm burnt out on it tonight, no i'm not conceding, i'll address the points you said I didn't tomorrow, but rn i'm too tired of this back and forth with a person who won't change their mind despite facts.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Aug 29, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> I never expect concessions on the BD, people are far too stubborn. Aoda is portrayed above Manda, as with the new three way summoning, it was clearly intended to show how the students surpassed their masters, and I personally believe Gamakichi to be above Gamabunta, as Gamakichi can use SM.


Gamakichi using SM is part of him being a toad from Myoboku. It's not even discussed in the Databook. If him using SM put him above Gamabunta in any way I promise you they'd discuss it. 
*Spoiler*: _Databook 4 - Gamakichi_ 



Ninja Registration Number: -
Birthday: April 1st (? years old; Aries)
Height: estimate 1690 cm; Weight: ? kg; Blood Type: ?
Personality: Rough / Violent, Brave / Fearless / Daring

(Quote - in Kansai-ben)
Hurry up and connect those seals of tha? jutsu
Honestly!!

An astonishing growth spurt
The New Star of Mount Myouboku!!

Strongly inheriting the blood of his father Gamabunta, a toad of chivalry. Keeping up with pace of Naruto?s maturation, his body grew to an enormous size in a single spurt. He is foul-mouthed but his friendship and honour runs deep. As for his past self that had saved Naruto, he never forgot that obligation!
(Picture)
Huge-bodied but, movements are agile and nimble. Using the daggers by his sides, he knocks away any attack.


Gamabunta & Manda are both said to be bigger, stronger & more powerful than Aoda/Kichi.



> I'll address you more tomorrow, but this debate has gotten stale, will continue it tomorrow, but i'm burnt out on it tonight, no i'm not conceding, i'll address the points you said I didn't tomorrow, but rn i'm too tired of this back and forth


Alright I look forward to it. 





> a person who won't change their mind despite facts.


Youve brought zero facts to the table. What is wrong with you? Your arguments have relied on:
-Katsuyu needed to protect Tsunade so she significantly held back in that battle. Because she needed to protect everyone....
-Manda is stronger while Aoda is faster therefore Aoda > Manda. You never gave evidence as to why Manda is a stronger snake while Aoda is faster. It's all baseless speculation. Especially considering Manda capitalized on speed a lot more than Aoda who was just reflexive like any decent snake summon would be.

There is zero fact or substance in your posts on this thread whereas I've provided irrefutable evidence of Mandas superiority and yet you just deny it all. I expect your next post to be undebatable.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Godaime Tsunade (Aug 30, 2016)

Manda's speed is under-rated. " Oh he just dodged a featless acid blast " - yeah, but Katsuyu's Zesshi Nensan is credited in the databook as a technique that is unpredictable and quick to fire, but yet he both dodges every single drop of acid that it produces at what was essentially point blank range, and manages to bind Katsuyu before she has a clue wtf has happened. 

Then, when Jiraiya fires his Gamayu Endan, Manda manages to completely shed his skin and fully burrow his huge body beneath the ground before the flames can so much as graze him. Not only that, but he moves so quickly beneath the ground that he can get behind Jiraiya and Gamabunta before they're able to launch an effective retaliation.

In short: he's very fast.

That being said, Aoda probably moves just as quickly, or at least he wouldn't be far off. However, Manda is larger, and has more battle experience, so I would wager that he's more likely to win.

Reactions: Like 2


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## HandfullofNaruto (Aug 30, 2016)

@Troyse22 any chance your going to counter my post or should I add this to my concession list?.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Troyse22 (Aug 30, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> -Manda is stronger while Aoda is faster therefore Aoda > Manda.



What? I never said one is superior to the other, I said Aoda is portrayed as superior because of the new three way summoning being Kishi's way of showing how they have surprassed their masters.

Obviously, being stronger in some scenarios will help more than speed, and being fast in some scenarios will help more than strength, both have their merits.



HandfullofNaruto said:


> -Katsuyu needed to protect Tsunade so she significantly held back in that battle. Because she needed to protect everyone....



Well, she needed to protect everyone from her acid...are you really denying that?



HandfullofNaruto said:


> Especially considering Manda capitalized on speed a lot more than Aoda who was just reflexive like any decent snake summon would be.



If Manda was so fast, he wouldn't have died 




Manda also only crossed a small field that quick, he was maybe 100-200 feet from Katsuyu, outside of that, Manda doesn't have speed feats, I believe Aoda could cross that distance in half the time based on HIS speed feats.


I'm not saying Manda or Aoda wins, but you guys underrating Aoda very badly and overrating Manda too much.

Idk why people keep bringing size into this, Aoda is roughly the same size as Manda.

And the reason I say Manda is stronger than Aoda is because Aoda has no strength feats, where Manda has the strength feat of popping Katsuyu.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Aug 30, 2016)

Manda also has the strength feat of hitting the ground with his tail and leaving a large crater in the ground in its wake

make clones of himself

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Android (Aug 30, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> If Manda was so fast, he wouldn't have died



Manda got killed because Sasuke couldn't reverse-summon him at time , not because he himself was slow .

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Troyse22 (Aug 30, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Manda got killed because Sasuke couldn't reverse-summon him at time , not because he himself was slow .



If he was so fast and reflexive he would've dug deep underground or outran the explosion. Guarantee Aoda would


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## Android (Aug 30, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> If he was so fast and reflexive he would've dug deep underground or outran the explosion. Guarantee Aoda would


Sasuke genjutsu'ed him , he wasn't at control of his actions .

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Troyse22 (Aug 30, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Sasuke genjutsu'ed him , he wasn't at control of his actions .



So? Sasuke could've directed him to run, but Sasuke knew he was too slow

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Android (Aug 30, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> but Sasuke knew he was too slow


Say there's an atomic bomb about to blow up 10 metres away from you , would you rather jump to a different dimension , or dig in deep ??? abviously Sasuke made the wiser choice , it had nothing to do with Manda being slow .
Not even sure how did you came up with that conclusion that Sauce knew he was " lol too slow " .

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Troyse22 (Aug 30, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Say there's an atomic bomb about to blow up 10 metres away from you , would you rather jump to a different dimension , or dig in deep ??? abviously Sasuke made the wiser choice , it had nothing to do with Manda being slow .
> Not even sure how did you came up with that conclusion that Sauce knew he was " lol too slow " .



Say there's an atomic bomb about to blow up 10 meters away from you, would you rather jump to a different dimension and die simultaneously or live and make a run for it/dig deep

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Android (Aug 30, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Say there's an atomic bomb about to blow up 10 meters away from you, would you rather jump to a different dimension and die simultaneously or live and make a run for it/dig deep


No , i would rather get as far as possible outta there , so i'll take the first choice since it canonically worked .


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## Troyse22 (Aug 30, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> No , i would rather get as far as possible outta there , so i'll take the first choice since it canonically worked .



it worked but he died....k then

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Android (Aug 30, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> it worked but he died....k then


Because the Sauce couldn't un-summon him in time , he has nothing to do with his death .

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## HandfullofNaruto (Aug 30, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> What? I never said one is superior to the other, I said Aoda is portrayed as superior because of the new three way summoning being Kishi's way of showing how they have surprassed their masters.


So you're saying Aoda isn't superior to Manda overall but in speed alone? You say this because Aodas speed feats are "superior" to that of Mandas. It's absolutely baseless though.. Charging through the battlefield was nothing impressive, it's never hinted that Aoda surpasses Manda in anyway in fact it's the opposite, Manda is still portrayed as superior to Aoda not in strength alone but general power. 





> Obviously, being stronger in some scenarios will help more than speed, and being fast in some scenarios will help more than strength, both have their merits.


Manda has more speed feats than strength feats therefore Manda should be faster than Aoda right? Your logic is Aoda has a speed feats that Manda lacks therefore Manda capitalizes on Strength while Aoda does so on speed.





> Well, she needed to protect everyone from her acid...are you really denying that?


I agree that she isn't going to fire Zesshi Nensan directly at Gamabunta & Jiraiya or Tsunade for that matter but I don't think she went out of her way to make sure they don't get hit. It was a regular Zesshi Nensan. Katsuyu wasn't holding back. So yes I'm denying that Katsuyu was trying to protect everyone from her acid.





> If Manda was so fast, he wouldn't have died


Terrible logic. He was summoned & placed under Genjutsu not to mention both Aoda & Manda lack the speed feats to out-run Deidaras C0.





> Manda also only crossed a small field that quick, he was maybe 100-200 feet from Katsuyu, outside of that, Manda doesn't have speed feats, I believe Aoda could cross that distance in half the time based on HIS speed feats.


You think he can do what Manda did in half the time because you belive he's superior in speed because he completed a feat that any decent snake could replicate. You don't think he just slightly superior but an entire tier above Manda in speed. (Assuming that due to the fact you just said Aoda replicates the feat in half the time) Nobody capitalized on Aodas speed.. ever. It's just regular snake speed + snake sensing. Manda could not only replicate the feat but through portrayal should actually surpass Aodas speed. Not to mention you're not even considering all of Mandas other speed feats. Just one of them.





> I'm not saying Manda or Aoda wins, but you guys are underrating Aoda very badly and overrating Manda too much.


No you're just confused about their feats.





> Idk why people keep bringing size into this, Aoda is roughly the same size as Manda.


Size is relevant in the sense that Manda is superior to Aoda in literally everything. Feats/Hype/Portrayal... size.





> And the reason I say Manda is stronger than Aoda is because Aoda has no strength feats, where Manda has the strength feat of popping Katsuyu.


You ignored Mandas many speed feats and claimed he capitalizes on strength where he's actually lacking feats. You claimed Aoda is an entire tier above Manda in speed even though nothing suggests that rather everything related disproves it. With the Manga show me why/how Manda is inferior to Aoda in any way. Aoda being part of a new Three-Way-Deadlock doesn't put him on Mandas level same with Gamakichi & Gamabunta. They're all still inferior. You're also sticking to the argument of Katsuyu significantly held back in that battle. Even though there is no way to prove that. You also have an annoying tendency to cherrypick my posts trying to find one part that may be debatable for you. 

Manda > Aoda. In all scenarios ever.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Godaime Tsunade (Aug 30, 2016)

Sasuke summoned Manda as soon as the explosion went off, and Sasuke put him under a genjutsu instantly. He couldn't have burrowed underground even if he'd wanted to


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## HandfullofNaruto (Aug 30, 2016)

@Troyse22 do you care to substantiate your arguments?


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## mangaraw (Aug 30, 2016)

Sasuke often summoned Aoda, not Manda. Also I think there's more than one Manda


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## HandfullofNaruto (Aug 30, 2016)

mangaraw said:


> Sasuke often summoned Aoda, not Manda.


Aoda is summoned once. Manda is summoned twice. (Once by Orochimaru & Once by Sasuke) 





> Also I think there's more than one Manda


Yea you're thinking of Manda 2


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## mangaraw (Aug 31, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Aoda is summoned once. Manda is summoned twice. (Once by Orochimaru & Once by Sasuke) Yea you're thinking of 2


Maybe...


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## Android (Aug 31, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> it worked but he died....k then


Aren't you gonna answer my post ?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Reznor (Aug 31, 2016)

Manda is fast enough that hypnotizing him in that split second of that explosion meant sometime. It implies that he could have avoided that plan otherwise.
Thousandsth of seconds was the scale of time being operated off of there.


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## Arles Celes (Aug 31, 2016)

Aoda is younger and more wise(not so arrogant).

Manda is older and more experienced but also more reckless.

I'd say Aoda should be somewhat better simply due to him being the next gen of the summons like Gamakichi may potentially be better than Gamabunta.

Though I dunno if both Aoda and Gamakichi surpassed their predecessors during the war or at an unspecified time afterwards.

Still, Aoda faced Juubi and the Juubling army(even if with the other summons backing it up) while Manda never faced such threat.

In terms of abilities I do not recall anything Manda did that Aoda did not aside from perhaps shedding skin. They are both very fast.


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## Mithos (Aug 31, 2016)

Until his death Manda was considered the largest and strongest snake, I believe. He should win.


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## Lord Aizen (Sep 1, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Great point, glad someone took that into consideration, he's surely been in more fights than Aoda.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What I mean by fiercer is Manda is more aggressive and has more rage. Hes more likely to give it everything hes got and more, while Aoda seems not as serious


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