# General Marvel Comics Discussion: "It's Coming" Avengers vs X-Men  - Part 2



## Tazmo (Jul 3, 2012)

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is *Here*


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## Tazmo (Jul 3, 2012)

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is *Here*


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## Petes12 (Jul 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> that's what I got out of the  bit



yeahhhh or maybe theyre talking about their whole species getting wiped out


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## Guy Gardner (Jul 3, 2012)

Taleran said:


> X-Men Story
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Allow me to repeat this:



That is a horrible, horrible idea and Bendis is not a writer I would trust to pull that off.



> Avengers
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



That's... a _lot_ of Avengers. It is bi-weekly, which means he'll get a chance to tell those stories... and kill my budget. I think Hickman is actually a pretty good fit for the Avengers, so I'll try this when it starts.



> Uncanny Avengers
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


[/quote]

I'm really torn on this. One of the _best_ things about the X-Men/Avengers relationship is that they don't get involved much with each other. X-Men can support a lot of books because they are essentially their own world and you can get everything you need in the X-Men family. I'm leery of connecting it to the outside world even more, let alone the Avengers (Who have almost as many, maybe more. I haven't counted recently).

That said, I'm kind of interested in seeing how well they _do_ bring the X-Men world into Avengers. Plus Remender has a good pedigree. I'll give it a shot, though I think I'll drop this before I drop Hickman's Avengers.


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## Banhammer (Jul 3, 2012)

Not to mention X-Men have teleporters, and having a teleporter in MU is like having a car in high school


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 3, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> That's... a _lot_ of Avengers.



Haha you don't say.


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## tari101190 (Jul 3, 2012)

> Never say Bleeding Cool doesn’t own up to its errors… We ran the rumour that Rick Remender and Jerome Opena were launching the comic Uncanny Avengers for the Marvel NOW! Relaunch.
> 
> Well, according to MTV’s report, it seems that John Cassaday is returning full time to comics to draw the book. And Jerome Opena is, in fact, drawing Jonathan Hickman‘s biweekly Avengers book, not Essad Ribic. Not initially, at least…
> 
> We did get Stuart Immonen on Bendis’ X-Men book correct though… even that the book existed!


I will read anything drawn by Opena, but I was already intrested in Avengers by Hickman anyway. From what I remeber from John Cassaday and Whedons x-Men, the art was good there too so that's ok.

Really wanted Remender/Opena together though.


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## Banhammer (Jul 3, 2012)

These are the most fabulous drag queen sun glasses I have EVER SEEN


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 3, 2012)

Will she pierce the heavens after the waterworks are off?


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## Banhammer (Jul 3, 2012)




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## Bushido Style (Jul 3, 2012)

So The Avengers is using the JLU formula huh 

Uncanny Avengers kinda makes sense. Might be a nice way to clean up the public image between the two teams.


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## Banhammer (Jul 3, 2012)

The Bite of the She-Wolf said:


> Will she pierce the heavens after the waterworks are off?



That sonuds like something phoenixy to do

Kaw, kaw, fight da powah


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## Parallax (Jul 3, 2012)

ffffffffffff Cassaday is back to drawing interiors

fuck I'll buy whatever shitty title he's on just for that art.


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## Banhammer (Jul 3, 2012)

Wise advice.


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## creative (Jul 3, 2012)

*subscribing post*


>dat feel when you never knew X-men legacy focused mostly on rouge leading for  two years

awkward.


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## Kanali (Jul 3, 2012)

Is the guy to the far left of the promo art work white Nick Fury? At first I thought it was Cable but the eye patch doesn't fit.


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## Petes12 (Jul 3, 2012)

it says cable right on the page


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## tari101190 (Jul 3, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Is the guy to the far left of the promo art work white Nick Fury? At first I thought it was Cable but the eye patch doesn't fit.


Cable's right eye is scarred, his left eye glows. It's correct.

But he usually doesn't wear a patch I guess. So that is odd.


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## Kanali (Jul 3, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> it says cable right on the page



Now I feel enormously stupid  

What does Cable need a gun for now anyways when he has his powers back?


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## Barioth (Jul 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> These are the most fabulous drag queen sun glasses I have EVER SEEN



 Those are some strong Tears.


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## tari101190 (Jul 3, 2012)

Better quality & more info (click for bigger image)







> "Uncanny Avengers" by Rick Remender and John Cassaday starring a team composed of Captain America, Wolverine and others from the company's two powerhouse franchises battling the mutant-hating Red Skull.
> 
> 
> "All New X-Men" by Brian Michael Bendis and Stuart Immonen realigning the mutant team in the wake of "AvX" as the original five X-Men are mysteriously brought to the present day. This title will launch in November.
> ...


 


> "It's a bridge book...something that can delve into both worlds," Remender told the magazine of how "Uncanny Avengers" bridges the pre and post-AvX Marvel U.
> 
> Of "All-New X-Men," Bendis explained, "It's not a time-travel story like 'Back To The Future.' It's a time-travel story like 'Pleasantville,'" adding "Here's the big question that they original X-Men are gonna be faced with: 'We're gonna grow up, and this is what we're going to get? That is not acceptable.'"


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 3, 2012)

oh please the original X-Men were already almost adults when the comic first started. the "I don't Wanna grow up" cliche won't work for any of them except bobby maybe...god knows Scott and Hank aren't going to care about reaching adulthood...

also dear lord why in god's name would they go with that redesign for Cyclops, it's fucking awful...in fact it looks like something from the early 90's or really early Image

also fucking Rocket Raccoon


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## Banhammer (Jul 3, 2012)

shouldn't tears float in the moon. What with the gravity and the air being heavier than water


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## Banhammer (Jul 3, 2012)

also EJ you forgot the part where scott abides by such a thing as an X shaped barrel for something as dangerous as an energy beam


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## Bluebeard (Jul 3, 2012)

Actually kind of excited for Uncanny Avengers now. The premise sounds pretty sweet.


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## Banhammer (Jul 3, 2012)

I like Thor's T belt buckle

It goes really well with the sweed leather porn actor vibe he's got going on there


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> also EJ you forgot the part where scott abides by such a thing as an X shaped barrel for something as dangerous as an energy beam



This, are all his blasts going to be X shaped now? How does that work for wide range blasts, is he going to be launching a giant X? Sounds kinda easy to dodge.

But yeah it looks ridiculous, and I'd say that if there is anything iconic about cyclops' look in all his various incarnations it's the basic horizontal visor.


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## Petes12 (Jul 3, 2012)

im suddenly noticing marvel does not like capes. like with thor. i like the fur/leather though


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## Banhammer (Jul 3, 2012)

the studs, the swords, the leather, the dildo helmet, the hammer, the fucking belt buckle

You making me horny


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## Kanali (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm not feeling as bitter as I should about some of these changes because of AvX. I just want it to end, I don't care what comes next.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 3, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> oh please the original X-Men were already almost adults when the comic first started. the "I don't Wanna grow up" cliche won't work for any of them except bobby maybe...god knows Scott and Hank aren't going to care about reaching adulthood...
> 
> also dear lord why in god's name would they go with that redesign for Cyclops, it's fucking awful...in fact it looks like something from the early 90's or really early Image



As fun as those hippie 60s X-comics were, I think the magic of sliding timescale is gonna make them 90s teens now, d00d.


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 3, 2012)

The Bite of the She-Wolf said:


> As fun as those hippie 60s X-comics were, I think the magic of sliding timescale is gonna make them 90s teens now, d00d.



I'm aware but even still Bobby seems like the only one that would react that way. what with Scott being a wallflower and Hank generally being more mature.

Why would Scott, as shy as he was not want to grow up to be the leader of his people who has saved the planet dozens of time.

why would Hank as michivious as he was sometimes not want to grow up after knowing what he would accomplish

Warren could as well depending on how much he finds out about what he does later on in life.

I don't see Jean freaking out that much unless, we concentrate only on the Dark Phoenix


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I like Thor's T belt buckle
> 
> It goes really well with the sweed leather porn actor vibe he's got going on there



Can't be worse than his armpit showing (all the way to the hip) classic outfit.

Also, Bachalo draws Mjolnir's handle like ten dudes could grab the thing at once.


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## Kanali (Jul 3, 2012)

Yeah, I don't think teenage Scott would mind so much that he grows up to become the charismatic and badass leader of the X-Men who bangs a super hot blonde in his spare time. He might be shocked over the tough decisions he has to make in the future but as a socially awkward wallflower, I don't see him doing much.

Beast might be freaked out about how he looks but all in all, I don't think he'd be so shocked over how he turned out in other regards (a brilliant scientist and hero who sticks to his values), other than his feud with Scott. 

What does Bobby have to be mad about, he's basically the same only more powerful, more mature and less of a dick.

Since teenage Warren doesn't know anything about Apocalypse, telling him that he becomes his horseman and later replaces him might not hold as much weight as you'd expect, although telling him what he does as Archangel, the New Apocalypse and in X-Force might shock him. 

Jean's thing would probably be focused on Phoenix and Dark Phoenix and they will DEFINITELY ignore the fact that she died with full control over the Phoenix Force the last time she died and only focus on what happened to her during the Dark Phoenix Saga.

That is unless they retcon everyone into being depressed, grunge era 90's teens.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 3, 2012)

Kanali said:


> I'm not feeling as bitter as I should about some of these changes because of AvX. I just want it to end, I don't care what comes next.



ARE YOU DARING MARVEL TO BE EVEN DUMBER? HAVE YOU LEARNT NOTHING?


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## Castiel (Jul 3, 2012)

AHAHAHAHAHA oh god that new Cyclops costume

MY SIDES

THEY ARE ACHING


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## Banhammer (Jul 3, 2012)

He looks like a bad grongi

Also, I can see teenage scott having a fit over the idea of him having a healthy relationship with Emma Frost

She is a super villain to them after all


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## Kanali (Jul 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> He looks like a bad grongi
> 
> Also, I can see teenage scott having a fit over the idea of him having a healthy relationship with Emma Frost
> 
> She is a super villain to them after all



This is Scott from the 60's Stan Lee series though, Emma Frost didn't show up until 1980 so he doesn't know who she is.

As for Scotts costume, I don't mind the colour but replacing his iconic visor with a freaking X is just dumb. They should have at least tried to work in the visor with the X design if they loved it so much.


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## Parallax (Jul 3, 2012)

I was looking at the poster and I really decided to look at who was in that team

it's like the most arbitrary team ever assembled it's like they just chose the names out of a bag and decided to go wit it.


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## Bluebeard (Jul 3, 2012)

^

Most of them make sense to me... Except for Nick Fury Jr.


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## Narutossss (Jul 3, 2012)

throughout the day I kept looking at that image and wondered were cyclops was because everyone kept posting about his new design but only just now when I look at it again I found him  dear god is that actually him... even jim lee could have done a better job designing cykes. god


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## Petes12 (Jul 3, 2012)

I mostly dislike that its all red


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## Narutossss (Jul 3, 2012)

I mostly dislike all of it... even cyclops doesn't deserved such an awful rendition. it's new 52 harley quinn all over again...


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## Stringer (Jul 3, 2012)

I like Thor's new design, wasn't too fond of the previous one. Some changes on the other hand are pretty bad.

That aside, I just started Spider-men and I'm enjoying it. Pinchelli's art is always delight for the eyes. While reading it I realized just how much I would love for Peter to acquire Miles' spider-sting at some point in his future tales. That ability is quite cool and handy.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 3, 2012)

Lex Luthor said:


> ^
> 
> Most of them make sense to me... Except for Nick Fury Jr.



You obviously mean 'Marvel's make sense', not 'Actual real life logical make sense'


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## Bluebeard (Jul 3, 2012)

Well, from a marketing viewpoint, yeah it does kind of make sense.


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## Id (Jul 4, 2012)

Cable is back to his 90's self + Eye Patch. And Thor now added a pair of swords to his arsenal?


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## Bergelmir (Jul 4, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> Cable is back to his 90's self + *Eye Patch*. And Thor now added a pair of swords to his arsenal?



And its on the wrong eye, to boot. So he's running around blind.


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## Petes12 (Jul 4, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I was looking at the poster and I really decided to look at who was in that team
> 
> it's like the most arbitrary team ever assembled it's like they just chose the names out of a bag and decided to go wit it.



its not necessarily a team, may just be a promo for the marvel now thing as a whole


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## Parallax (Jul 4, 2012)

Well this is true

but if that is the team it's super random and just tacked together.


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## Bergelmir (Jul 4, 2012)

Do any of you recognize the bodyless floating head next to Jean Grey? Or is that just a massive nipple tumour on the Hulk...


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## Slice (Jul 4, 2012)

No idea, maybe Martha got herself a superhero "suit"?

All in all it is a very strange selection of characters even if it is just a promo pic.


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## Bergelmir (Jul 4, 2012)

As a promo for the upcoming Marvel comics, it does sorta fit.

Jean, Cyclops, Logan: the X-Books
Iron man, Thor, Cap: Avengers
Spider-man: the Spider book
Hulk: Hulk books
Sue Storm: the FF books
Nova: I've heard McGuinness is drawing a Nova book
Rocket Raccoon: Bendis' cosmic book, probably
Black Nick: movie tie in
Cap: the Cap books

And I guess Cable is being used by Remender or Hickman or in the X-Books.


EDIT: Hold on, Bendis' book is called All New X-Men. Does that mean Gillen will be left on Uncanny? Because that would be lovely.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 4, 2012)

Lex Luthor said:


> Well, from a marketing viewpoint, yeah it does kind of make sense.



To Marvel marketing, ANYTHING makes sense

"Hey yo Nick Fury in the movies is black! So we better introduce him into the comics to make it more popular!"


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## Bergelmir (Jul 4, 2012)

The only way AvX should end.

]

Poor Emma.


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## Kanali (Jul 4, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I was looking at the poster and I really decided to look at who was in that team
> 
> it's like the most arbitrary team ever assembled it's like they just chose the names out of a bag and decided to go wit it.



Yeah its not a team, its just a promo of the characters that will be most prominently featured in this revamp. 



Bergelmir said:


> Do any of you recognize the bodyless floating head next to Jean Grey? Or is that just a massive nipple tumour on the Hulk...



Thats some kind of robot that they seem to be pairing the Hulk up with.


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## Nightblade (Jul 4, 2012)

Thor looks less of a god in his new costume. though it's just one picture for now, so whatevs. and it's not like I can do anything about it.


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

The one thing that makes me think this roster might be genuine is the fact that HERBIE is standing right over there and no one mentioned him yet


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

> Thats some kind of robot that they seem to be pairing the Hulk up with.


Or maybe you did
I think it's HERBIE


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## tari101190 (Jul 4, 2012)

Well they probably are all Avengers now, but I think that is just a promo image of Marvel characters.

Avengers roster may change up alot in the issues though depending on what happens.


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## Kanali (Jul 4, 2012)

I don't see Cyclops joining the Avengers right after fighting a war with them. The premise of Uncanny Avengers is that Cap realizes he hasn't been doing enough for mutants though, so I could see them working together down the line, but right after AvX just seems forced.


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

He'll probably feel "real bad you guys" and they'll let him join to "redeem himself"


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## Michael Lucky (Jul 4, 2012)

This whole Marvel NOW! does not please me as an X-Men fan, I just hope they pull a good one

Did it say anything about Fantastic Four?


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## Michael Lucky (Jul 4, 2012)

Inb4 past thanos with infinity gauntlet gets ported to present day

that might actually be interesting tho


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

wasn't that the plot of avengers assemble?


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## Michael Lucky (Jul 4, 2012)

failry new to comics so I wasnt aware of that, was it good?


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## Kanali (Jul 4, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> wasn't that the plot of avengers assemble?



Good god I hope not, that comic is stupid enough as it is.


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

Michael Lucky said:


> failry new to comics so I wasnt aware of that, was it good?



I'll tell you if I ever give enough of a shit about it to pick it up


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## Michael Lucky (Jul 4, 2012)

lol ok then

well how about this then

inb4 beyonder gets venom symbiote and then pretends to be spiderman to feel more like him, but then rogue touches him which gives her crazy hax and his memories


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

For a moment I thought rogue could absorb electricity now


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

ha

They've pissed namor off

AvsX 7 didn't let me down after all


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

The Wanda wank is almost enough to make me forgo the fact that illyana didn't activate her goat legs to defend herself


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## Petes12 (Jul 4, 2012)

2 issues in a row of AvX that I've enjoyed. weird. can't imagine what the difference is


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

damn me if I may say so myself, but uncanny is everything I imagined it would be


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## Comic Book Guy (Jul 4, 2012)

Why is Wanda still powerful?


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

She's still got lots of chaos juju but her reality warping is mostly gone


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## shit (Jul 4, 2012)

I never did really understand wanda's powers

since I only started keeping up since Disassembled


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

I thought I got the gist of it

Just can't over think it though

She has magical chaos energy 
Sometimes that translates into bad luck
Other times in spontaneous enthropy bursts


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 4, 2012)

Al Capone said:


> Why is Wanda still powerful?



Someone try to walk up behind her and whack her over the head with a wooden plank.

And see what happens.


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

Still can't believe they went ahead with the Harry Potter defense, (not that I minded) and they're still pushing away at Tony Ex Machina (which I did)


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

remind me again why no one is shooting wanda into space


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## Parallax (Jul 4, 2012)

cuz she's an Avenger


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## Kanali (Jul 4, 2012)

She'll get angry, work out, get a lot of muscle and invade Earth in a big stone spaceship and smash everyone one.


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

wanda would make a great granny goodness


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## Zen-aku (Jul 4, 2012)

Matt fraction sucks


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## Kanali (Jul 4, 2012)

I wonder if Wolverine will try to bang Teenage Jean. There's always been a 100 year age difference between them so I think he'll go for it.


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## Bergelmir (Jul 4, 2012)

Man, I was hoping all the forshadowing of the Phoenix 5 losing control was just a sleight of hand. But it looks like we're just getting another Phoenix drives people bonkers story.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 4, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> wanda would make a great granny goodness



Would she rock the bald Goodness look?





Zen-aku said:


> Matt fraction sucks


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

Remember Nun wanda? That was hot

Anyway, I like the chastising tony is giving himself for fucking up on the phoenix issue, but I'm really hoping we don't get a fear itself repeat

It wasn't a bad twist mind you, it's just that I'm not looking forward for a repeat performance, and there's a lot more you can do with tony stark other than self doubt- new suit.


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## shit (Jul 4, 2012)

wish he'd go back to unremorseful drinking


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## creative (Jul 4, 2012)

As much as I enjoy xmen legacy, seeing Ms.marvel getting raped by rogue makes me remember 
That Ms.marvel has no rogues gallery worth it's salt. Its pretty sad really.


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## shit (Jul 4, 2012)

didn't they snub her in marvel vs capcom?


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## creative (Jul 4, 2012)

That's capcom for ya. They can't balance there own breakfast.  Let alone a character roster.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 5, 2012)

Kanali said:


> I don't see Cyclops joining the Avengers right after fighting a war with them. The premise of Uncanny Avengers is that Cap realizes he hasn't been doing enough for mutants though, so I could see them working together down the line, but right after AvX just seems forced.



Like what part of avx isn't forced enough?


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 5, 2012)

so  Hickman's going to be writing New Avengers as well as Adjectiveless Avengers apparently

I was seriously hoping New Avengers would go away with this, but oh well


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## Banhammer (Jul 5, 2012)

Shouldn't they be called the "Not so new Avengers" by now?


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## Michael Lucky (Jul 5, 2012)

How about "The Relatively New Avengers" since a much older Avengers team are still there and all


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## creative (Jul 5, 2012)

if we drop new avengers, can we add the young avengers? i haven't heard from those cats in a while.


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 5, 2012)

a creative color said:


> if we drop new avengers, can we add the young avengers? i haven't heard from those cats in a while.



After the Children's Crusade I want the Young Avengers to go away for a long while to be perfectly honest with you


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## Phantom Roxas (Jul 5, 2012)

I don't get why people want to see New Avengers end. As for the fact that they're not exactly new anymore, that's a good point considering Secret Avengers. Maybe it would have been better to rename New Avengers.


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## shit (Jul 5, 2012)

cuz 4 avengers titles a month is ridiculous


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## Kanali (Jul 5, 2012)

If any Avengers title needs to go away, its Avengers Assemble. Its just a blatant attempt to cash in on the movies popularity, a lot of it makes no sense at all. Like Hulk joining the Avengers while he's busy dealing with his inner psychopath or Thanos suddenly being back after being trapped in a collapsing Universe and practically erased from existence.


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## Banhammer (Jul 5, 2012)

which is ironic because nowhere in the movie does anyone say "avengers assemble"


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## Zen-aku (Jul 5, 2012)

Kanali said:


> If any Avengers title needs to go away, its Avengers Assemble. Its just a blatant attempt to cash in on the movies popularity, a lot of it makes no sense at all. Like Hulk joining the Avengers while he's busy dealing with his inner psychopath or Thanos suddenly being back after being trapped in a collapsing Universe and practically erased from existence.



the latter was gonna happen sooner or later an explanation wold be nice though


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## Petes12 (Jul 5, 2012)

well like he said its pretty blatantly for the movie audience. so its not gonna be continuity heavy. i think they started that book because they didnt want to interrupt the other avengers books when the movie was coming out


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## Banhammer (Jul 5, 2012)

it is in continuity though, which is weird


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## tari101190 (Jul 5, 2012)

Uncanny Avengers Cover


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 5, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> Uncanny Avengers Cover



Oh good Thor's keeping his cape after all...I hate that Rogue's gone back to the hood though...and is it wierd that I prefer Havok with the giant head ornament?


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## Zen-aku (Jul 5, 2012)

thor has a beard hell yes


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## Kanali (Jul 5, 2012)

Thor needs to grow a full on badass beard rather than stubble.. Something like this


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## Zen-aku (Jul 5, 2012)

its so manly,it.... its too powerful


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## ~Gesy~ (Jul 5, 2012)

Don't know why the beard isn't more iconic.

he looks like more of a viking.


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## shit (Jul 5, 2012)

great art, great writer

somehow I think that will be the best avengers book


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## Kanali (Jul 5, 2012)

I don't get why Havok is the leader as opposed to Cap though. I guess it would make sense if he took the charge on mutant related missions but still.


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## shit (Jul 5, 2012)

cap doesn't need to be such a bossy bitchass all the time


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## Kanali (Jul 5, 2012)

I don't like Cap at all but still, he seems a more obvious leader than Havok. Especially of an Avengers team.


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## shit (Jul 5, 2012)

remender says the team's all about improving mutant/human relations, so it's probably a token gesture

in the spirit of obama


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## Phantom Roxas (Jul 5, 2012)

If Havok is supposed to be the leader, why is he in the far back?

As far as I'm concerned, Uncanny Avengers is the main book of this relaunch.


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## Kanali (Jul 5, 2012)

Well yeah, they said it was the flagship title.


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## Bergelmir (Jul 5, 2012)

Aw, I really liked Havok's tron suit. Also, I hope they don't take him off X-Factor for this.



Phantom Roxas said:


> If Havok is supposed to be the leader, why is he in the far back?
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, Uncanny Avengers is the main book of this *relaunch*.


I must've missed something. Whats this about a relaunch?


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 5, 2012)

Phantom Roxas said:


> If Havok is supposed to be the leader, why is he in the far back?



Because he's not marketable enough and he looks ridiculous? Wolverine's at the front as well.


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## Narutossss (Jul 5, 2012)

wolverine is always at the front


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## Zen-aku (Jul 5, 2012)

wait havoks the leader? WHHHY!? Pretty much every one on the team other then wanda is a better leader then him


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## shit (Jul 5, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I must've missed something. Whats this about a relaunch?



conjecture


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## Bergelmir (Jul 5, 2012)

shit said:


> conjecture


Ah, okay then.


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## Petes12 (Jul 5, 2012)

its not really conjecture. look up marvel now! thats basically their relaunch. its not a full relaunch the way DC's was, and there's no continuity changes. but its a ton of relaunched books


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## Bergelmir (Jul 5, 2012)

Mmm, I just read the article on Bleeding Cool. 21 new books, eh? Thats pretty nuts.

Also, apparently Hickman's Avengers is going to be twice a month as well. I really hope double shipping is not going to be the standard for this relaunch.


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## Petes12 (Jul 5, 2012)

hickman's also doing a new avengers book with epting. for some reason.


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## Zen-aku (Jul 5, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> hickman's also doing a new avengers book with epting. for some reason.



The new avengers are awesome.


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## Bergelmir (Jul 5, 2012)

Yeah, thats what the article said. I guess the model is still a bajillion Avengers and X-books, with a sprinkling of other stuff.

Still, I can't really complain about Hickman writing Avengers and New Avengers. Maybe he'll tie them together like he did for Fantastic Four and FF. And its Epting. At least it will look magnificent while he's on.

EDIT: Also, whats the current line up of New Avengers? I haven't read that since... Iron Fist's costume turned white, I think.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 5, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Yeah, thats what the article said. I guess the model is still a bajillion Avengers and X-books, with a sprinkling of other stuff.
> 
> Still, I can't really complain about Hickman writing Avengers and New Avengers. Maybe he'll tie them together like he did for Fantastic Four and FF. And its Epting. At least it will look magnificent while he's on.
> 
> EDIT: Also, whats the current line up of New Avengers? I haven't read that since... Iron Fist's costume turned white, I think.



Cage, fist, spidey, Wolverine, Jessica Jones, Ms. Marvel, Strange, the new and improved Mockingbird with squirrel girl as the nanny


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 5, 2012)

So same old, same old then.

If he leaves the line up as it is, I am curious to see what Hickman does with the team. Hopefully, some mind bending magicky stuff with Strange.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 5, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> So same old, same old then.
> 
> If he leaves the line up as it is, I am curious to see what Hickman does with the team. Hopefully, some mind bending magicky stuff with Strange.



sure to be better then Defenders.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 6, 2012)

Definitely.

Although, I heard Defenders got better after the 3rd issue or something.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 6, 2012)

i like defenders, certainly more than any nonsecret avengers book


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 6, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> i like defenders, certainly more than any nonsecret avengers book



well just  continues the trend on us not agreeing on any thing. as defenders dosent even have good art imo


----------



## shit (Jul 6, 2012)

I like defenders as well

though the actual story direction is suspect


----------



## shit (Jul 6, 2012)

but new avengers has no story direction so


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Jul 6, 2012)

Read up some more on Bendis' All Shit X-Men book and I feel like stabbing things now(apparently, the original 5 are supposed to stick around long term which makes no fucking sense, continuity-wise). I almost can't believe they're cancelling the best-selling book of their entire line for this garbage.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 6, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> well just  continues the trend on us not agreeing on any thing. as defenders dosent even have good art imo



dodson was only a few issues and even his was better than avengers' art


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 6, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> dodson was only a few issues and even his was better than avengers' art



dodson better the Deodato ? no, Hell no, FUCK NO.


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 6, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> dodson better the Deodato ? no, Hell no, FUCK NO.



:rofl:rofl:rofl lol I like neither, but I'd take dodson over deodato any day, heck I might even take liefeld over deodato


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 6, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> dodson better the Deodato ? no, Hell no, FUCK NO.



deadato is shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit


----------



## shit (Jul 6, 2012)

I like deodato

but only in small doses


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 6, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> :rofl:rofl:rofl lol I like neither, but I'd take dodson over deodato any day, *heck I might even take liefeld over deodato*



Officially trying too hard.

Even 90s Deodato was more palatable than Liefeld while being part of the same crowd.


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 6, 2012)

The Bite of the She-Wolf said:


> Officially trying too hard.
> 
> Even 90s Deodato was more palatable than Liefeld while being part of the same crowd.



I guess some people don't understand the meaning of might


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 6, 2012)

thor vs emma, daredevil vs psilock
More melodrama
avsx you a dumb hoe


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 6, 2012)

new avengers preview

God, Luke Cage, you such a dumb hoe


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 6, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> :rofl:rofl:rofl lol I like neither, but I'd take dodson over deodato any day, heck *I might even take liefeld over deodato*



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV1LzXf1TKQ[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 7, 2012)

Just pointing out that avx continues to fail and be nothing but a huge mess


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2012)

but plenty of namorporn

whats your problem with the recent issues though?


----------



## Kanali (Jul 7, 2012)

The Avengers stupidity is still pissing me off. We all know the Avengers are going to end up right in the end but there's NOTHING that would suggest that they are right now. That means that the Avengers only motives right now are jealousy or general dickishness which makes them look like ENORMOUS assholes.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 7, 2012)

I've spent all of my avengers hatin'.
I mean, they've made such a consistent and effective way of mocking themselves that there is little to no point at being appaled at their actions

Now I'm just laughing at scenes like new avengers, where Jessica drew tries to play the dalai lamma prisoner of war game on a stepford cuckoo, and luke cage acts like an imebecile, attacking warpath and then crying about his daughter to the guy he just tried to kill

I'm particularly fond of the part where the guy who could punch namor underwater  three issues ago is now a poor mewling kitty behind iron bars

They couldn't make their case through reason or might, so now they're going for blatant self victimization and moral high straw.
So at this point I'm ready to let the avengers have their token victory through mutant villanization.
Maybe  even a couple of poorly veiled Israel and a disney moment with le inocent enfant Summers who now is suddenly mysteriously eight years old instead of sixteen
I mean you can't hate on something that is just so beneath you.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2012)

you guys act like there's no precedent for phoenix hosts to suddenly turn evil


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 7, 2012)

specially since they have the guy who calls rachel grey a revulsion on her mother's grave for searching out for a girl back to her family when two days ago he was doing the same thing to kill her

I mean, at some point you just feel sorry for the intelectual capacities of these people


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 7, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> you guys act like there's no precedent for phoenix hosts to suddenly turn evil



there's also precedence for wanda, thor, iron man, any hulk and dr strange to go evil, but I don't see any them being on a hit list


Not to mention, there's only a tiny list of superhero characters in the world whom wolverine is yet to attempt murder on.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2012)

thor? 

anyway uh huh nice try. but its totally reasonable for them to worry about what the phoenix is doing since what it likes to do is destroy planets


----------



## Es (Jul 7, 2012)

> They couldn't make their case through reason or might, so now they're going for blatant self victimization and moral high straw.
> So at this point I'm ready to let the avengers have their token victory through mutant villanization.
> Maybe even a couple of poorly veiled Israel and a disney moment with le inocent enfant Summers who now is suddenly mysteriously eight years old instead of sixteen
> I mean you can't hate on something that is just so beneath you.



Blame Bendis that's what I do, and yeah what is with the artist deaging Hope


> anyway uh huh nice try. but its totally reasonable for them to worry about what the phoenix is doing since what it likes to do is destroy planets


You got a point there, I didn't really see much vilification of Scott at least. He seemed like he was trying to hold it together and not go overboard and declare total war


----------



## shit (Jul 7, 2012)

remender's the only one who can have blob chump someone like kid gladiator with a straight face


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 7, 2012)

Remember how we all were during Civil War?

AvX is like, Civil War the sequel.


----------



## Kanali (Jul 7, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> thor?
> 
> anyway uh huh nice try. but its totally reasonable for them to worry about what the phoenix is doing since what it likes to do is destroy planets



The purpose of the Phoenix is to fix what's broken. In this case, Wanda fucking over the mutants is whats broken and what drew the Phoenix to Earth in the first place. If it wanted to destroy the Earth it wouldn't need a host. 

Hulk and Wanda are both Avengers, have a history of mental instability and enough juice to destroy the planet, yet they're okay for some reason.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2012)

well its become really unclear what the story on wanda was, children's crusade had explained away all her power and her craziness but now it seems like they're maybe not sticking with that, even so soon after children's crusade finished?

hulk can't destroy the planet. it's questionable whether he can even take thor. 

regardless of all of that, when jean was pheonix she turned 'evil' because the phoenix asserts itself. it's like a cosmic venom symbiote. the avengers have a plenty good reason to be worried


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 7, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> *thor*?
> 
> anyway uh huh nice try. but its totally reasonable for them to worry about what the phoenix is doing since what it likes to do is destroy planets



Somebody seems to be forgetting about that period where Thor went batshit insane.

Edit: Hulk can so destroy a planet...he did last year at the end of Pak's run during Heart of the Monster

and no she didn't go evil because of the Phoenix asserting itself, the phoenix went nuts because Mastermind went and fucked with it and jean's mind


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2012)

Yeah I don't remember that at all

also i didn't read heart of the monster, but that's what i would kindly refer to as 'fucking lame and dumb'


----------



## shit (Jul 7, 2012)

mastermind



goodnight sweet prince


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 7, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Somebody seems to be forgetting about that period where Thor went batshit insane.



Wouldn't hold it against him, since it's in the running for worst Thor story ever with 90s art and writer disappointment to match. Unless he's a vs. board fiend, he shouldn't even know what the hell happened then.

People sometimes don't realize how lucky they're right now, just complaining about Bendis and JRJr.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2012)

ah there you go. you all forgot, i don't read old shitty comics


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 7, 2012)

The Bite of the She-Wolf said:


> Wouldn't hold it against him, since it's in the running for worst Thor story ever with 90s art and writer disappointment to match. Unless he's a vs. board fiend, he shouldn't even know what the hell happened then.
> 
> People sometimes don't realize how lucky they're right now, just complaining about Bendis and JRJr.



Well of course it was god awful and retarded...I was just pointing out that Thor did have an episode of insanity in the past as well. 

and all things considered considering how big a pwerhouse Thor can be Banhammer did have a point there


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 7, 2012)

I don't even hate all 90s art. But it's got to have some moves to it.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2012)

Except it's never even referred to anymore, i had no idea what you're talking about. It's essentially not in continuity


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 7, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Well of course it was god awful and retarded...I was just pointing out that Thor did have an episode of insanity in the past as well.
> 
> and all things considered considering how big a pwerhouse Thor can be Banhammer did have a point there



Jurgens had Thor wanting to impose his rule on Earth when getting the throne of Asgard. That's better.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 7, 2012)

odin did move to wipe out the earth last year though, yet when someone moves on asgards, it's a big green goblin meanie


----------



## creative (Jul 7, 2012)

Al Capone said:


> Remember how we all were during Civil War?
> 
> AvX is like, Civil War the sequel.



I can agree to that. I just hope that the ending to avengers vs x-men has a good ending.
I still shit on civil war from time to time but I genuinely enjoyed it till the crap sack ending and dissasembled.


----------



## Es (Jul 7, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Yeah I don't remember that at all
> 
> also i didn't read heart of the monster, but that's what i would kindly refer to as 'fucking lame and dumb'



AKA complaining about stuff you don't read 

In fact Planet Hulk had him holding a planet together, and earlier books had the Gray Hulk even being capable of busting planetoids once


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2012)

Doesn't mean I like any of that. DBZ power 'creep' is satan


----------



## Es (Jul 7, 2012)

Comics are overpowered as shit Petes 

Mostly due to how long they've been running and alternating writers and stuff


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2012)

the stupid power level wankfests seem mostly limited to superman, hulk, wolverine, and a few others though.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 7, 2012)

wwh had him shattering tectonic plates by walking
That is about as planet busting as it is relevant to get


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 7, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> the stupid power level wankfests seem mostly limited to superman, hulk, wolverine, and a few others though.



But Superman always stabilizes back to some semblance of basics. No one sane (I hope) cares about Superman's T-Vo nonsense anymore. Hulk is so old a character I kinda agree with you, his Paks should be more beer drops in the deep bucket (also that planetoid crap is nonsensical when you actually look at it for more than 5 seconds), and Wolverine's case is funny, because while it's probably more comparable with Spider-Man or Luke Cage evening out as escalated superhumans as they became more popular and used, even Tom Brevoort complained about it.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 7, 2012)

difference is that hulk has a galactus clause to fall under


----------



## Es (Jul 7, 2012)

Really though powerlevel never bothered me in comics, or anything really


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 7, 2012)

power levels are irrelevant for the quality of the story telling as long as the "magic rules" remain constant

Sanderson law and everything


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 7, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> but plenty of namorporn
> 
> whats your problem with the recent issues though?



Same gripe as always with Marvel. Double-standards, ignoring their own continuity, lack of focus, erratic writing and lack of logic

Nothing Marvel can do will ever justify avx, the fake conflict is so forced I should file assault charges


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 7, 2012)

I too feel eye raped by the cyclo-thong


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 7, 2012)

maybe marvel should think about giving up this heroes vs heroes shit










I can only wish


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 7, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I too feel eye raped by the cyclo-thong



Thong?  What?  


edit:  Source

Oh wow, that's an actual thing that's happening.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2012)

im more disturbed that marvel seems to want to break him and emma up, so they can go back to him pining after jean i guess? except it'll be jean from the past so it'll be all icky like the good ol madelyne prior days?


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 7, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> im more disturbed that marvel seems to want to break him and emma up, so they can go back to him pining after jean i guess? except it'll be jean from the past so it'll be all icky like the good ol madelyne prior days?



Marvel? Breaking the status quo?

Say it isn't so!


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 8, 2012)

At least with Civil war, it wasn't moving a retarded breakneck pace and actually had time and books to explore the deeper implications of the whole ordeal from many different angles. It was still a bit silly but far more plausible than avx, which is nothing more than a poorly scripted and written action story that has no depth or complexity. It's a series of scenes taking place with loose connections all tied in to a central goal of "Whatever is cool"

This is a disturbing trend Marvel have been taking for years now, they are writing for a frat-boy comic book demographic. By appealing to what looks "Cool!", they have sacrificed their integrity to tell a good story for a 5 minute brain-off fest.

Marvel even realize the whole story is a farce, they lampshaded how idiotic everything is in an attempt to deal with it in #6. But the problem with lampshading is just acknowledging a problem, it doesn't actually do anything 

Marvel. All flash and no substance.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 8, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> Marvel? Breaking the status quo?
> 
> Say it isn't so!



*breaking the status quo to go back to an older status quo with a slight twist

still while i dont always like the writing on AvX especially the early stuff, i dont see how its especially bad the stuff that happens from issue to issue. other than captain america beating up wolverine out of nowhere


----------



## shit (Jul 8, 2012)

wolverine went in rogue under cap's command, so it's natural for him not to take such insubordination

also wolverine has metal bones and can heal from anything, so it's not like a tongue lashing is gonna phase him


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 8, 2012)

who needs talking WHEN WE CAN FIGHT

annoying trope among all superheroes even if it is sometimes cool its usually so unjustified and this is a prime example. but its especially bad with cap whos supposed to be such a reasonable guy


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 8, 2012)

Cap vs Wolverine was just a cheap attempt to pull in readers. It doesn't have any deeper meaning than to make more sales

Proof; it's never talked about again and the next issue they're perfectly fine with each other. More proof that Marvel has no integrity


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 8, 2012)

^I hate AvX as much as the next guy and the whole core quick cash-in while simultaneously derailing good on-goings mentality but it helps if you don't read it... any of it..... I'm not reading AvX, I'm not even gonna pirate that shit, it's not worth the time and it doesn't deserve any support. If it annoys you so much, just don't read it.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 8, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> difference is that hulk has a galactus clause to fall under



Funny, because to me the Galactus/Spectre clause is about how you're supposed to be invincible/infinite but your job still includes just showing off how dangerous another other guy is because Not Enough Planets/The Lord Works In Mysterious Ways.



Narutossss said:


> maybe marvel should think about giving up this heroes vs heroes shit
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Or send them a story that sells more than Civil War.

Just kidding, they don't accept unsolicited bpitches.



ghstwrld said:


> Thong?  What?
> 
> 
> edit:  Source
> ...



Anyone remember Marvel's eye candy calendars?



Petes12 said:


> im more disturbed that marvel seems to want to break him and emma up, so they can go back to him pining after jean i guess? except it'll be jean from the past so it'll be all icky like the good ol *madelyne prior days?*



Tramp was hot.



Narutossss said:


> ^I hate AvX as much as the next guy and the whole core quick cash-in while simultaneously derailing good on-goings mentality but it helps if you don't read it... any of it..... I'm not reading AvX, I'm not even gonna pirate that shit, it's not worth the time and it doesn't deserve any support. If it annoys you so much, just don't read it.



I haven't proper read a single issue of it, I'm just here to notice the reactions and the art.

It's like Chaos War. I don't know how that garbage really played out, only its outcome (Hercules depowered, with new ongoing, and then cancelled).


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 8, 2012)

The Bite of the She-Wolf said:


> Or send them a story that sells more than Civil War.
> 
> Just kidding, they don't accept unsolicited bpitches.
> I haven't proper read a single issue of it, I'm just here to notice the reactions and the art.
> ...



 marvel don't even look at pitches what so ever. 
Why don't they get mark millar to right civil war 2  when he stops being busy making money off movie deals and using marvel exclusive artists to do so . as for AvX art, I've heard coipels become an unsong hero but he's slow


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 8, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Hulk and Wanda are both Avengers, have a history of mental instability and enough juice to destroy the planet, yet they're okay for some reason.


wasn't wanda being mind controlled being mind controlled or something by doom in top of whatever issues she had?


Banhammer said:


> there's also precedence for wanda, thor, iron man, any hulk and dr strange to go evil, but I don't see any them being on a hit list





Banhammer said:


> specially since they have the guy who calls rachel grey a revulsion on her mother's grave for searching out for a girl back to her family when two days ago he was doing the same thing to kill her
> 
> I mean, at some point you just feel sorry for the intelectual capacities of these people


wait wait wait, A) that's not her family, she may have been raise by cable, she may have the last name and what not but she is no cable's daughter

B)Hope wanted to go with the avengers, and wanda (very explicitly with the avengers) , actually whenever given the choice she chooses avengers, except on issue one where she chose to run

C)no one wants to kill her, that wolverine, in a moment made the call because at a moment she looked like she was about to go DP, and because he _*and hope*_ already accorded to this, is something you can't really pin down on the avengers because he took that action by himself, and even then, we never knew if he actually was going to go through with it because he got burnt to crisp


----------



## shit (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm with petes, I don't hate this event

despite how stupid it is, heros fighting heros is a more interesting concept than some contrived villain appearing outta nowhere to cause another run-of-the-mill worldwide catastrophe/threat a la fear itself and secret invasion

I'll enjoy what I can and won't enjoy what I can't, and I'll know all that's going on

the scope of event books always makes them worth buying, or dling if that's your thing cuz you're poor


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 8, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> wasn't wanda being mind controlled being mind controlled or something by doom in top of whatever issues she had?


That really has nothing to do with the price of butter




> wait wait wait, A) that's not her family, she may have been raise by cable, she may have the last name and what not but she is no cable's daughter


I don't see where her blood relations have anything to do with whom daughter she was.


> B)Hope wanted to go with the avengers, and wanda (very explicitly with the avengers) , actually whenever given the choice she chooses avengers, except on issue one where she chose to run



Blatant wrongfulness, besides the pointness and wtfareyougoingonaboutness.
Zen-Aku dupe, is that you?


> C)no one wants to kill her, that wolverine, in a moment made the call because at a moment she looked like she was about to go DP, and because he _*and hope*_ already accorded to this, is something you can't really pin down on the avengers because he took that action by himself, and even then, we never knew if he actually was going to go through with it because he got burnt to crisp


Lol, wut?
Someone has been doodling in their diaries


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 8, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> That really has nothing to do with the price of butter


she wasn't in control of herself, else everyone who has being mind-controlled should be tried by the acts they committed while in that state





> I don't see where her blood relations have anything to do with whom daughter she was.


well, what I'm trying to say is that cyclops, who has barely lived with her



> Blatant wrongfulness, besides the pointness and wtfareyougoingonaboutness.
> Zen-Aku dupe, is that you?


oh come on now, do you want me to count how many times she went with either or, and is not besides the point cyclops told her she can go anywhere she wants, she chooses the avengers and for that we get the hunting (and incarceration) of people who were right up to before this event your allies and friends, not only that, but that because of those bad decisions cyclops made at the beginning (that is not attempting to work with the avengers) we got things like namor about to sink wakanda with countless of innocent people in it (which is made worse by the fact that when namor needed back when nerkkod was kicking his ass in FI it was the avengers who helped him) 


> Lol, wut?
> Someone has been doodling in their diaries


this was established in WatXM and in AVX


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 8, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> she wasn't in control of herself, else everyone who has being mind-controlled should be tried by the acts they committed while in that state


Hurray for you for infering the implied notions of how children crusade as solide fact
As it is your right
Now please extrapolate them onto hope, explain how that is any difrent from helfire club causing a dark phoenix, therefore exposing how your point is valid.



> well, what I'm trying to say is that cyclops, who has barely lived with her


Cable is a son to Scott. Hope was precious, well hope to him when she was a baby and a daughter to his son
To him, she is a grand daughter.
There are boundless indulgences he takes from hope, and no one else, that come from the fact that this is how he sees her, even if she doesn't see him as a grandfather
I don't know how these layers of subtlety and character have gone away from you over the years


> oh come on now, do you want me to count how many times she went with either or, and is not besides the point cyclops told her she can go anywhere she wants, she chooses the avengers and for that we get the hunting (and incarceration) of people who were right up to before this event your allies and friends, not only that, but that because of those bad decisions cyclops made at the beginning (that is not attempting to work with the avengers) we got things like namor about to sink wakanda with countless of innocent people in it (which is made worse by the fact that when namor needed back when nerkkod was kicking his ass in FI it was the avengers who helped him)
> this was established in WatXM and in AVX



I could go around archive hunting and showing why you are ten times more mistaken than you are comprehensible, but my emotional distance for the relevance of this self evident topic is so great, that I really have no incentive to devote a single minute to this discussion.
Please re-read these stories.
Please.
And then feel free to rethink your conclusions
Or not

You have a firm belief that this is where the story comes from, so there's really no way to further it without burning through precious exam season time.


----------



## Kanali (Jul 8, 2012)

shit said:


> I'm with petes, I don't hate this event
> 
> despite how stupid it is, heros fighting heros is a more interesting concept than some contrived villain appearing outta nowhere to cause another run-of-the-mill worldwide catastrophe/threat a la fear itself and secret invasion
> 
> ...



Still, this is the third event of heroes fighting heroes (Civil War, WWH and AvX) and it always ends up the same way, one side of the heroes are compromised big time and end up looking like enormous assholes or plain old villains (everyone but the Hulk in WWH, registration side in Civil War and Avengers in AvX) and its just getting old.

It was interesting to see in Civil War, it had a good enough twist to make it remain okay in WWH but now its just getting stupid. My main problem with these events is that they're rarely as entertaining as the stories they disrupt (which is definitely the case of AvX in my opinion) and Marvel throwing a new event that is supposedly "THE BIGGEST THING EVAR OMG UR MINDS ARE GONNA BLOW" every year or so makes it lose a lot of credibility.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 8, 2012)

>Restless under the influence of a wild force and the strict leadership of scott summers, host Frost and host namor plot against host summers knowledge and consent a military invasion of wakanda, for providing haven to their enemies and holding prisoners of their people with the power of their government, a consequence T'chala was well aware of, to the point where he vehemently refused to be seen with the avengers for knowledge his contribution came at a cost to his citizenry.

>It's scott's fault that wakanda is under attack


Ha

Maybe I am baited that easy



Kanali said:


> Still, this is the third event of heroes fighting heroes (Civil War, WWH and AvX) and it always ends up the same way, one side of the heroes are compromised big time and end up looking like enormous assholes or plain old villains (everyone but the Hulk in WWH, registration side in Civil War and Avengers in AvX) and its just getting old.
> 
> It was interesting to see in Civil War, it had a good enough twist to make it remain okay in WWH but now its just getting stupid. My main problem with these events is that they're rarely as entertaining as the stories they disrupt (which is definitely the case of AvX in my opinion) and Marvel throwing a new event that is supposedly "THE BIGGEST THING EVAR OMG UR MINDS ARE GONNA BLOW" every year or so makes it lose a lot of credibility.



I'm fatigued of event fatigue
It's been going on so long that HUGE SHAKES TO THE STATUS QUO is the status quo

Somewhere mid siege, just before loki died, it really just stopped being a bother to me


----------



## shit (Jul 8, 2012)

3 times in 10 years

yeah I can see how that would- wait no I don't


----------



## Kanali (Jul 8, 2012)

More like 3 times in 6 years but yeah. Maybe my perspective is fucked up since I started reading comics less than a year ago and thus I've read all three of them in the span of a couple of months.


----------



## shit (Jul 8, 2012)

more like 7 and 1/2 since disassembled kicked off the event cycle, and that was the end of 2004


----------



## Kanali (Jul 8, 2012)

I was talking about hero vs hero events.


----------



## shit (Jul 8, 2012)

I'll hero vs hero your face


----------



## Kanali (Jul 8, 2012)

Bring it my face is the biggest hero evar.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Jul 8, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> oh come on now, do you want me to count how many times she went with either or, and is not besides the point cyclops told her she can go anywhere she wants, she chooses the avengers and for that we get the hunting (and incarceration) of people who were right up to before this event your allies and friends, *not only that, but that because of those bad decisions cyclops made at the beginning (that is not attempting to work with the avengers)* we got things like namor about to sink wakanda with countless of innocent people in it (which is made worse by the fact that when namor needed back when nerkkod was kicking his ass in FI it was the avengers who helped him)
> this was established in WatXM and in AVX




That's all on Cap acting like a raging dumbshit. If Steve shows up with either a small delegation of Avengers or by himself to actually talk and/or offer assistance instead of popping up with a helicarrier full of Avengers to strong-arm Utopia into giving up Hope, this whole thing doesn't happen.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 9, 2012)

shit said:


> more like 7 and 1/2 since disassembled kicked off the event cycle, and that was the end of 2004



Secret War
Disssasembled
House of m
Civil war
WWH
Aftersmash
Messiah Complex
Secret Invasion
Second Coming
Fear Itself
Siege
Anihalation
war of kings
conquest
chaos war
shadowland
spider island
avengers vs x-men
schism

I don't know


----------



## Kanali (Jul 9, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Secret War
> Disssasembled
> House of m
> Civil war
> ...



There's also Realm of Kings and Thanos Imperative


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 9, 2012)

Right.


Some bigger, some smaller, some cosmic some street, the idea is ultimately the same, so it has lost the power of outrage.

At least for me, personally.


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 9, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Secret War
> Disssasembled
> House of m
> Civil war
> ...


get ready to add an punisher and ultron event to that list:rofl
btw marvel really seem to dig *WAR* events


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 9, 2012)

Hell, I'm even starting to enjoy bits and pieces again.
AvsX has lots of moments that range from the "wow nice" from the "at least this validates my opinion"


----------



## Es (Jul 9, 2012)

They should put Yost in charge of more shit. EMH gets it in

It even made SI more interesting


----------



## shit (Jul 9, 2012)

just read the last few issues of AvsX

this event is incredible, and I love 6 and 7, probably best two issues of any event

VS continues to be fucking terrible, and I'm going to drop it


----------



## Es (Jul 9, 2012)

VS's quality really depends on who's writing it
I might get the next one if it has someone I care about


----------



## shit (Jul 9, 2012)

loeb and yost were both terrible


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 9, 2012)

It isn't looking up
It's daredevil vs psilocke and Thor vs Emma


----------



## Kanali (Jul 10, 2012)

If the trend keeps up, the X-Men will be winning all the battles in Act 2.


----------



## creative (Jul 10, 2012)

so the only fan confirmed "good" events are:
seige
dark reign
spider-island
cosmic marvel
1602

everything else is either borders from bad to debatable maybe to ever expanding clusterfuck of why.jpeg?


----------



## shit (Jul 10, 2012)

dark reign isn't really an event

civil war was good
spider-island wasn't
1602 was basically a miniseries since it impacted nothing
house of m was awesome
avsx is looking up
annihilation was the only cosmic marvel event worth a crap


----------



## Kanali (Jul 10, 2012)

a creative color said:


> so the only fan confirmed "good" events are:
> seige
> dark reign
> spider-island
> ...



Cosmic Marvel is indeed awesome. World War Hulk was okay but the ending ruined it completely.


----------



## shit (Jul 10, 2012)

GoG and Nova were awesome as books

the events were lackluster


----------



## creative (Jul 10, 2012)

I didn't know people who liked WWH existed holy shit. I mean, I'm grateful I got a red hulk that isn't written by leob because of it but goddamn.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 10, 2012)

aren't you thinking of something separate? WWH- hulk comes back to earth and beats up superheroes. what you're thinking of, maybe it was called WWHulkS? where everyone turns into a hulk and loeb kills off doc sampson?


----------



## creative (Jul 10, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> aren't you thinking of something separate? WWH- hulk comes back to earth and beats up superheroes. what you're thinking of, maybe it was called WWHulkS? where everyone turns into a hulk and loeb kills off doc sampson?



I was under the impression that world war hulks started right after the ending of world war hulk and that the fall of the hulks mini-was shoehorned to seem as if these event happened during dark reign. but otherwise yeah, fuck plurals brah.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 10, 2012)

no it went, WWH, then loeb Hulk... then WWHs?


----------



## shit (Jul 10, 2012)

WWHs wasn't bad

the parts written by Parker and Pak I mean


----------



## creative (Jul 10, 2012)

shit said:


> WWHs wasn't bad
> 
> the parts written by Parker and Pak I mean



I got into WWH's because I heard Carlo Pagulayan was drawing it and he's pretty much my favorite artist right now next to Sara Parchelli and Jerome Opena. I glad I stayed read it though since it convinced me to read agents of atlas. .


----------



## Kanali (Jul 10, 2012)

a creative color said:


> I didn't know people who liked WWH existed holy shit. I mean, I'm grateful I got a red hulk that isn't written by leob because of it but goddamn.



Whats not to like about the Hulk making every hero on Earth his bitch and tearing up New York?  Except for the fact that despite "being more angry and powerful than ever" he doesn't kill anyone and basically says "well, I've done what I came here to do, i.e. the same thing I always do now I'm going home".


----------



## creative (Jul 10, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Whats not to like about the Hulk making every hero on Earth his bitch and tearing up New York?  Except for the fact that despite "being more angry and powerful than ever" he doesn't kill anyone and basically says "well, I've done what I came here to do, i.e. the same thing I always do now I'm going home".



that first sentence right there is what tore my insides up. I read bruce jones and pak and figured "well aside from ripping earths heroes a new asshole, he's just going to leave again on his 'forever alone' status quo". and that's essentially what ended up happening. oh and that hamfisted "holy than thour" speak when hulk was shitting on the illuminates was famfisted as hell.


----------



## shit (Jul 10, 2012)

well he was going to rule them forever and have the illuminate kill each other, but then he found out his bug bro blew everyone up

you shouldn't forget the bit that made it all make sense


----------



## Kanali (Jul 10, 2012)

shit said:


> well he was going to rule them forever and have the illuminate kill each other, but then he found out his bug bro blew everyone up
> 
> you shouldn't forget the bit that made it all make sense



Didn't he choose to not to kill them right before the Sentry jumped him? And after beating the Sentry he reverts to Banner and finds out Miek betrayed him? If what you say its true it makes a teeny bit better. Doesn't change the fact that the sum total of the event was zero


----------



## Es (Jul 10, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Didn't he choose to not to kill them right before the Sentry jumped him? And after beating the Sentry he reverts to Banner and finds out Miek betrayed him? If what you say its true it makes a teeny bit better. Doesn't change the fact that the sum total of the event was zero



It was better then most events, my only gripe was JRJ


----------



## shit (Jul 10, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Doesn't change the fact that the sum total of the event was zero



as opposed to every comic event ever?


----------



## Parallax (Jul 10, 2012)

Not every event ever

I do wanna say though that I have been frustrated with the constant events from both companies.  I have been for awhile but I don't really complain about it.  It's more so because it hurts a lot of single titles from really getting any traction as they have to put all their stories on hold or straight cancelled to feed the event beast.  I've accepted that WatXM is probably never gonna be the same again and any of the fun ideas are pretty much gone because of this event and setting up the next Marvel banner.  I always wonder if writers can opt out of it or if it's mandatory to participate in events.


----------



## Kanali (Jul 10, 2012)

shit said:


> as opposed to every comic event ever?



House of M : All but ca 198 mutants depowered, new direction for all X-Books

Civil War : Introducing the Registration Act and dividing the Avengers franchise into the Iron Man lead government team and the New Avengers. Death of Captain America and Goliath. 

Messiah Complex : Introduces Hope Summers, sets up the return of the Phoenix

Secret Invasion : Brings back Mockingbird, the real Hank Pym, dissolves the Skrull Empire and results in a new status quo for the entire Marvel Universe in the form of Dark Reign.

Siege : Ends Dark Reign and the Registration Act, brings back Steve Rogers and a new status quo, kills off Ares and Loki.

War of Kings : Inhumans become rulers of the Kree Empire, ends in death of Black Bolt and Vulcan. 

Schism : Results in new status quo in the X-Verse, return of the School.

Thanos Imperative : Kills off Thanos, Nova and Starlord.

WWH changed nothing in the rest of the Marvel U, all it did was set the stage for the next chapter of the Hulk's story which seems weak for an event involving pretty much every hero on Earth.


----------



## Es (Jul 10, 2012)

Incredible Herc says hello


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 10, 2012)

It brought hulk home. but yeah it was mostly event filler just like fear itself


----------



## shit (Jul 10, 2012)

well the making of red hulk and red she-hulk is pretty much as impacting as any of those others you listed, besides the decimation


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 10, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Whats not to like about the Hulk making every hero on Earth his bitch and tearing up New York?  Except for the fact that despite "being more angry and powerful than ever" he doesn't kill anyone and basically says "well, I've done what I came here to do, i.e. the same thing I always do now I'm going home".



WWH is entry level event pickings at best, only notable when reading all of Pak's Hulk run in succession, otherwise it doesn't warrant its number of issues, and multiple characters are utter disgraces in it.

Plus the whole Hulk vs. NYC had already been done before, by Mantlo. But apparently Pak is well aware of his senior's contributions, so I'll give him that.


----------



## shit (Jul 10, 2012)

Pak had something completely different and way more grandiose in mind, but editorial trimmed it down to what it ended up being


----------



## Kanali (Jul 10, 2012)

shit said:


> well the making of red hulk and red she-hulk is pretty much as impacting as any of those others you listed, besides the decimation



What did their creation have to do with WWH? They became Hulks after WWH.


----------



## shit (Jul 10, 2012)

they couldn't have been created if hulk didn't come back

the end issue of wwh teased the creation of red hulk


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 10, 2012)

So there's a new book coming out in the AvX aftermath called *Uncanny Avengers*. I've always liked the X-Men but, aside from Iron Man and BuckyCap, I've always found the Avengers to be boring. 

Not sure how I feel about an X-Men/Avengers team book yet.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 10, 2012)

Gillen is leaving J.I.M


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 10, 2012)

What will Gillen be writing after this shuffle btw


----------



## shit (Jul 10, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Gillen is leaving J.I.M



nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 10, 2012)

Well, Gillen did say that he had a definite ending to his run. That said, its sad to see him leave the title. And I was hoping for a proper "Surtur wrecks everything" arc.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 11, 2012)

shit said:


> Pak had something completely different and way more grandiose in mind, but editorial trimmed it down to what it ended up being



Yes, something about Hulk going around and making the world better place to live in. Also he starts off by punching Sentry and breaking every bone in his body.

Pak is such a fucking fanboy faget. So from a quasi avx HULK SAVES THE WORLD to WORLD WAR HULK IN NEW YORK 

fuck new york. I said it. Marvel has not only made me _hate_ steve rogers but also hate _new york_


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 11, 2012)

AvsX has been pleasantly not in NY

Sure, we had that Wundagore/TabulaRasa/Latveria/auhfausobf/The fortress of solitude thing a while back, but baby steps..


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 11, 2012)

I just thought of something:

The X-Men and the Avengers threw down on the moon. Where exactly are the Inhumans?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 11, 2012)

Last I checked, the Inhumans had left the moon and were ruling over the Kree (and some of the Shi'ar). Hadn't read anything cosmic since Thanos Imperative tho, so something could've changed.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 11, 2012)

Oh yeah...

Last time I saw the Kree though they were ruling themselves again though D:


----------



## Id (Jul 11, 2012)

The Inhumans are suppose to be back.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 11, 2012)

Was that from that Hickman FF crap? I saw Black Bolt on one of the covers. What'd he do, step through a portal and say "Hi, gaiz! Guess who's not dead. You can have your empire back Ronan. The Inhumans are going home. "


----------



## Parallax (Jul 11, 2012)

it is from Hickman's FF run iirc


----------



## shit (Jul 11, 2012)

LIL_M0 said:


> Was that from that Hickman FF crap? I saw Black Bolt on one of the covers. What'd he do, step through a portal and say "Hi, gaiz! Guess who's not dead. You can have your empire back Ronan. The Inhumans are going home. "



Saying that would blow whatever planet he was on to smithereens


----------



## Hellion (Jul 11, 2012)

Is The third Summers brother still alive, because I would have preferred him be the next phoenix


----------



## shit (Jul 11, 2012)

Haha what a shitstorm that would be


----------



## Hellion (Jul 11, 2012)

Lol. I really wish they would bring him back, SOmeone needs to but scott in his place


----------



## Id (Jul 11, 2012)

3rd Brother?
Vulcan?
And claim the Phoenix Force?

Did you not read, that what if? He will wreck shit.


The only qualified person to handle the enormity/instability of the Phoenix Force..is Jean.

Always Jean.


----------



## Kanali (Jul 11, 2012)

Hellion said:


> Is The third Summers brother still alive, because I would have preferred him be the next phoenix



As far as we know he's still dead. And there's a what if when that happens. He starts throwing tantrums and destroys like 8 galaxies. Vulcan was kind of cool as Majestor of the Shi'ar but when you get down to it he's a whiny, entitled child. Still I wouldn't mind having him back in Marvel Cosmic if thats coming back with Marvel Now.

On the topic of weird resurrections, it seems like Marvel has dropped all pretense and just started bringing characters back without an explanation.

First Black Bolt then Thanos and now Daken


----------



## Id (Jul 11, 2012)

That and there is more precedent for the Vulcan to return than Black Bolt, given that he can rebuild his body.


----------



## Hellion (Jul 11, 2012)

what happened to Wolvie lite-lite?


----------



## Kanali (Jul 11, 2012)

Hellion said:


> what happened to Wolvie lite-lite?



Daken? He became a junkie and the drugs made him lose his healing factor and gave him some disease. His healing factor wouldn't recover before the disease killed him so he decided to fuck with Wolverine one last time, gave him a hug and blew himself up in his face.

Then he showed up at Sabretooths party out of nowhere (Wolverine wasn't even surprised to see him, he just punched him in the face to get to Sabretooth) and now he leads the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants in Uncanny X-Force.


----------



## sanx021 (Jul 11, 2012)

Why have Marvel cancelled Uncanny X-men it was their best selling x book


----------



## Hellion (Jul 11, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Daken? He became a junkie and the drugs made him lose his healing factor and gave him some disease. His healing factor wouldn't recover before the disease killed him so he decided to fuck with Wolverine one last time, gave him a hug and blew himself up in his face.
> 
> Then he showed up at Sabretooths party out of nowhere (Wolverine wasn't even surprised to see him, he just punched him in the face to get to Sabretooth) and now he leads the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants in Uncanny X-Force.



Damn so young and yet so convoluted


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 11, 2012)

dark avengers was selling well but they shitcanned that one aswell


----------



## Kanali (Jul 11, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> dark avengers was selling well but they shitcanned that one aswell



The old one with Norman Osborn or the new one with Luke Cage?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 11, 2012)

sanx021 said:


> Why have Marvel cancelled Uncanny X-men it was their best selling x book



they're basically doing what they did with new x-men by morrison. the title's being replaced with a new one with a different title, the one by bendis


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 11, 2012)

Uncanny Avengers. 

*EDIT*





> Captain America & Wolverine will lead a powerhouse team of mutants and 'Mighties'--Spider-Man, Hulk, a time-displaced young Marvel Girl (a.k.a. Jean Grey)(!), the new Nova, Iron Man, Rocket Raccoon, Invisible Woman, Cyclops, Cable, Thor and *Nick Fury Jr*. For those unaware of what went down in the Battle Scars mini-series, *Fury's son Army Ranger Marcus Johnson* was contrived into becoming the new Nick Fury of the Marvel Universe, losing an eye in the process. Cable's also now wearing on eye patch, but it's on the other one, so they won't clash.


O_____________O ??


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jul 11, 2012)

sucks to be a Nick Fury

you're destined to lose an eye.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 11, 2012)

oh did you miss that m0 

it's pretty funny how they tried to shoehorn in Jacksonfury but I can't imagine a better way to do it either


----------



## Glued (Jul 11, 2012)

I've been out of the marvel loop for a while, but where is Franklin Richards right now during the phoenix takeover?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 11, 2012)

having fieldtrips with the FF or some shit


----------



## typhoon72 (Jul 11, 2012)

Cyclops evil uniform aside, that roster looks pretty damn amazing. Tho any roster with Nova automatically makes it amazing. Hopefully they don't write him off after the first arc again...


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 11, 2012)

its a new nova


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 11, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> AvsX has been pleasantly not in NY
> 
> Sure, we had that Wundagore/TabulaRasa/Latveria/auhfausobf/The fortress of solitude thing a while back, but baby steps..



And for every event that isn't, there is fifteen that is 

But like you said, baby-steps. Maybe new york will stop being the centre of all american fiction in a millenia or two


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 11, 2012)

if you're gonna set something in an american city it's almost gotta be ny because it's such a cool one. where as other cities in the US... just aren't. They're not imposing for example. Only cities I can think of with as much personality to them are Paris and Hong Kong


----------



## typhoon72 (Jul 11, 2012)

Nova is still Nova to me. Ultimate Spider-Man aside.

He's my favorite character. He'll probably be toned down now, won't be Nova Prime like before.

Anyways. AvsX#4 was quality shit. DD didn't get his shit wrecked and that Emma vs Thor art was gorgeous.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 11, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> if you're gonna set something in an american city it's almost gotta be ny because it's such a cool one. where as other cities in the US... just aren't. They're not imposing for example. Only cities I can think of with as much personality to them are Paris and Hong Kong



Typical american arrogance


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 12, 2012)

really?...

its just a pop culture reality, ny is the quintessential city


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 12, 2012)

Largely in american culture and fiction. It's like that for some others because american culture reflects a large amount of western cultures.

Though you missed my point, you don't need to be in NY to tell a good story. San Francisco, Wakanda and Latveria was a start but at the end of the day nearly everything is in NY

To every non-american, this is just ego-stroking. Another reason why most people that watched Avengers thought cap was just america's patriotism in human form and thus unlikeable


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 12, 2012)

So anybody read New Avengers? Ha realized how low my expectations of bendis avengers were when I was actually surprised by the twist ending.

And the Emma / Thor portion of AvX VS was good. DD vs. Psylocke was dumb as shit. No reason why she shouldn't have just dropped him with a thought.


----------



## shit (Jul 12, 2012)

Emma vs Thor was by remender and thus obvsly would be great


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 12, 2012)

You sure? I thought Emma / Thor was written by the artist, while psylocke / DD was done by remender.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 12, 2012)

new avengers was good.what the fuck kind of world am I living in?


----------



## shit (Jul 12, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> You sure? I thought Emma / Thor was written by the artist, while psylocke / DD was done by remender.



I haven't read it, I just heard remender and decided to stave off dropping it for one more ish


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 12, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> new avengers was good.what the fuck kind of world am I living in?



The weird thing is though, it was only so good because bendis was writing it. Any other writer I'd see Luke tackle Colossus and Hawkeye dodge Cyke's blast and call shenanigans. 

Since it's Bendis though I fell for it hook line and sinker.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 12, 2012)

he didnt really do those things though

edit ohhhh i see and so you fell for it and the twist was a surprise


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 12, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> he didnt really do those things though
> 
> edit ohhhh i see and so you fell for it and the twist was a surprise



Yeah, like it surprised me when Luke tackled colossus, but in a "Wow bendis I know you love cage but seriously?" way as opposed to a "something's not right here..." kind of way.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 12, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> dark avengers was selling well but they shitcanned that one aswell



That was more meant to have a definite end point. Like Aaron's Punisher MAX. And its cast being self-destructive helped things along.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 12, 2012)

I liked the part when Thor was whupped by the falling debris he sent sky high in the first place. It even looked like he glanced upwards at it for a moment.

We Looney Tunes now.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 12, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> The weird thing is though, it was only so good because bendis was writing it. Any other writer I'd see Luke tackle Colossus and Hawkeye dodge Cyke's blast and call shenanigans.
> 
> Since it's Bendis though I fell for it hook line and sinker.


Exactly.

I mean, it was filled with stupid bullcrap, like :
Mutants, specially esme of all people, being wardens
Bendis's Luke Cage being confounded by iron bars
Magma not instantly pit roasting hawkeye the second he grabs hold of her hand
Esme not brain frying jessica the second she grabs her
Luke Cage punching phoenix collosus

All things that made me groan before saying "Lol, Bendis, I'm going to throw such a fit on the internet when I'm done with this"

And then WHAM

Specially with that deodato art, and that "and I must scream" finale.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 12, 2012)

Just saw WatXM, I feel sorry for Gladiator


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 12, 2012)

It's kind of hard to feel bad for the gallactic overlord :/


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 12, 2012)

I liked Warbird's story though.
I only wish it was someone elses cause it's kind of hard to like her


----------



## Glued (Jul 12, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> And for every event that isn't, there is fifteen that is
> 
> But like you said, baby-steps. Maybe new york will stop being the centre of all american fiction in a millenia or two



In Young Justice, a monster attacked Shearon Harris nuclear power plant in North Carolina.


----------



## Es (Jul 12, 2012)

In Fearless Sin attacked Charleston in South Carolina


----------



## creative (Jul 12, 2012)

Holy sheep Shits and dynamite dicks, I was wondering where thor vs Emma looked so Fucking hawt and low a behold, kaare, CG-to the mutha fucking -I,Andrews wrote AND drew that fight. Dat was some straight Ren and stimpy shit right thur..


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 12, 2012)

shit said:


> Emma vs Thor was by remender and thus obvsly would be great



Hahahah you're wrong because it's fucking retarded like the rest of the avxs series



Ben Grimm said:


> In Young Justice, a monster attacked Shearon Harris nuclear power plant in North Carolina.



And Scarlet Spider-Man is set in Houston (iirc)! 

MAN I AM SUCH A IDIOT. LASERS EATS DICKS LOL


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 12, 2012)

Hey, has it been announced who any of the eighteen Avengers in Hickman's story will be?


----------



## creative (Jul 13, 2012)

Lex Luthor said:


> Hey, has it been announced who any of the eighteen Avengers in Hickman's story will be?



Reminder is writing uncanny avengers. As for characters I know rogue is joining.  And....rocket raccoon?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 13, 2012)

hickman's writing adjectiveless avengers though creative color.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 13, 2012)

^^

Was Uncanny Avengers the one where the X-Men and the Avengers team up to fight Red Skull or what?


----------



## creative (Jul 13, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> hickman's writing adjectiveless avengers though creative color.


Right. And reminder is on uncanny avengers,the book that has a ridiculouys huge cast to improve xmen relations 
?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 13, 2012)

a creative color said:


> Right. And reminder is on uncanny avengers,the book that has a ridiculous cast to improve xmen relations ...right
> ?



no. hickman's the one doing a big cast.


----------



## creative (Jul 13, 2012)

Aight then.


----------



## Glued (Jul 13, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> And Scarlet Spider-Man is set in Houston (iirc)!
> 
> MAN I AM SUCH A IDIOT. LASERS EATS DICKS LOL



Majority of DC takes place outside of New York. Hawkman and Static are the only two heroes in New York at the moment.

New York is mostly the center of the Marvel universe.

When you say that majority of American fiction takes place in New York. The only things that really pops into my mind is King Kong, Godzilla(1998) and Ghostbusters.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 13, 2012)

I'm having trouble of thinking of eighteen fucking Avengers.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 13, 2012)

Lex Luthor said:


> I'm having trouble of thinking of eighteen fucking Avengers.



Really? There've been more than 18 rotating Avengers since Bendis alone.



EDIT: I would love it if Hickman used the Eternals again. We've been Eternal-less for too long now.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 13, 2012)

Bendis had several people who I didn't think were worthy of even being Avengers. 

If you ask half of the people in this thread, they probably couldn't think of eighteen Avengers who defined the team and made sense, not like Daredevil...


----------



## Es (Jul 13, 2012)

Yes, more Eternals is welcome

Or those Avengers that appeared in the recent Red Hulk arc  

Or some of the other members of The Crew


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 13, 2012)

Who are the Crew? Google brings up the Wrecking Crew, but you can't mean them...



Lex Luthor said:


> Bendis had several people who I didn't think were worthy of even being Avengers.
> 
> If you ask half of the people in this thread, they probably couldn't think of eighteen Avengers who defined the team and made sense, not like Daredevil...



Ah, I see. In that sense, yeah, you're absolutely right.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 13, 2012)

similarly i can't think of 18 x-men that should be x-men, and yet...


----------



## Es (Jul 13, 2012)




----------



## Es (Jul 13, 2012)

So Hulk is being renamed Red She Hulk


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 13, 2012)

Es said:


> )


That link doesn't say much, but the art looks pretty amazing. And is that a White Panther?



Es said:


> So Hulk is being renamed Red She Hulk


Is Parker still writing it? 'Cause if he is, they could change the title to A-Bomb and His Pals, and it'd still be great.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 13, 2012)

white tiger, he got replaced by a girl who's in avengers academy now. its weird that i feel like im the only one who remembers the various white tigers. 

and still parker yeah


----------



## Es (Jul 13, 2012)

She's more of a replacement for the Original White Tiger while Kasper has nothing to do with him. He was also Black Panther for a while when he was believed dead. Last time I checked he was with the Initiative


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 13, 2012)

Wait, I thought White Tiger was currently the former-cop who was brainwashed by the Hand? Did they kill her off?

But whatever, I'm guessing the White Tiger in the Crew is the original then?

EDIT: Ah okay. Thanks Es.


----------



## Es (Jul 13, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Wait, I thought White Tiger was currently the former-cop who was brainwashed by the Hand? Did they kill her off?
> 
> But whatever, I'm guessing the White Tiger in the Crew is the original then?



No he's the one who was the Black Panther


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 13, 2012)

In any case, I'll be checking the book out.

Further Googling revealed that one of the members is Isiah Bradley's son, so I'm definitely interested.


----------



## Es (Jul 13, 2012)

It's good man, they need more Priest stuff in TPB's

And his interactions with his family are fucking hilarious, I need to post scans...


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 13, 2012)

reading avsx preview and it still looks strong

I loved the rogers t'chala dynamic

"This totally means scott summers is a douche for attacking innocent people! I knew it"
"I don't give a damn about scott summers you ponce, there are people of mine dying!"


----------



## shit (Jul 13, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> Hahahah you're wrong because it's fucking retarded like the rest of the avxs series



fucking retarded just like your FACE


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 13, 2012)

shit said:


> fucking retarded just like your FACE



Dude that was uncalled for


----------



## shit (Jul 13, 2012)

sorry


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 14, 2012)

This is apparently the cover to Amazing Spider-man 700. Its actually pretty neat.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 14, 2012)

shit said:


> sorry


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 14, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> oh did you miss that m0
> 
> it's pretty funny how they tried to shoehorn in Jacksonfury but I can't imagine a better way to do it either



Yeah. I missed that. Must've been during the Fear Itself aftermath. After the main FI concluded I didn't read any 616 books until AvX... 

Except for maybe X-Men Schism, that was post-FI right?


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Jul 14, 2012)

Yep.

10 char


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 15, 2012)

I find it hilarious that my favorite character in the marvel facebook game is the scarlet witch, and that scott summers costs 15 credits to recruit vs Jean Grey's 53 or wolverine's 90


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 15, 2012)

Even nightcrawler and storm cost at least fifty

Scott Summers is the cheapest mutant around


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 15, 2012)

but he's king of the mutants


----------



## Glued (Jul 15, 2012)

he shoots beams from his eyes, not much to work with.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 16, 2012)




----------



## Narutossss (Jul 16, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> he shoots beams from his eyes, not much to work with.


pretty much, I mean everyother mutant can do some crazy shit even wolvie, unbreakable metal bones, sensitive nose, regenaration, super slow ageing and that's just him and that's mid tier abilities compared to other mutants, and then you have cykes, the guy that shoots stuff outta his eyes. he should be cheaper.


----------



## sanx021 (Jul 16, 2012)

The extra dimensional supply of energy for Cyclops's eye-blast is practically infinite. Thus, so long as Cyclops's psionic field is active (which is constant), there is the potential to emit energy. The only limit to the eye-blast is the mental fatigue of focusing constantly. After about 15 minute of constant usage, the psionic field subsides and allows only a slight leakage of energy to pass through the aperture. Cyclops's metabolism will recover sufficiently for him to continue in about an additional 15 minutes

Marvel could do a lot with Cyclops's power fuck the only reason the phoenix likes him is because he has infinite energy in which it can feed off. If his psonic field could extend all over his body he could be much more powerful than he is. Read up on his powers before you criticise them.

Plus Scott holds back his powers due to being afraid of them


When Iron Man measured Cyclops's power while he was powering Bishop, he found the energy output was well over 2 gigawatts, larger than a large nuclear reactor and that's not even his full power

)


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 16, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> he shoots beams from his eyes, not much to work with.



The Hulk punches, but he costs 90 credits

Scott is a tactician class character, so he comes with suport buffs and debuffs, but they're pretty weak sauce compared with the scarlet witch's


Honnestly I'm waiting for a decent costumed version before I try to buy him


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 16, 2012)

So the Facebook game is actually good? Huh. What's it like? RPG or something?


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 16, 2012)

It's not good, but it is addicting to me

Essentially, it's turn based combat with campaigns across ny.
you recruit avengers with point you gain from completing missions, and go around beating up magneto, or dormamu

It has an annoying energy bar and money farming, but every once in a while a jewel comes around, like shooting Loki in the face with coulson's rifle (you actually can't do that any more, it was a limited time weapon)


You get a team of three vs 1 to 3 enemies, sometimes in waves.
Your team is comprised of you, and two aengers/x-men/fantastic four members, and get extra points for some combos

They also come in different classes depending on whether your guy is a brick, or a spy, and they have advantages on each other, pokemon style

My personal favorite is Thor / Scarlet Witch (Bruiser, Blaster), both rather expensive 90 credit characters (all main avengers, save for perhaps black widow and hawkeye are)


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 16, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> *It's not good, but it is addicting* to me
> 
> Essentially, it's turn based combat with campaigns across ny.
> you recruit avengers with point you gain from completing missions, and go around beating up magneto, or dormamu
> ...



Ah. Of course. Ye standard Facebook game.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 16, 2012)

Naturally you can also go around in pvp beating other people's avenger's up, so hurray for civil war!

Shoot people in the face with your very own iron man people in the face shooter


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 16, 2012)

On another note, have you guys seen the concept art for Guardians of the Galaxy? If the film has even a third of the awesomeness of that poster, it'll be great.


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 16, 2012)

sanx021 said:


> The extra dimensional supply of energy for Cyclops's eye-blast is practically infinite. Thus, so long as Cyclops's psionic field is active (which is constant), there is the potential to emit energy. The only limit to the eye-blast is the mental fatigue of focusing constantly. After about 15 minute of constant usage, the psionic field subsides and allows only a slight leakage of energy to pass through the aperture. Cyclops's metabolism will recover sufficiently for him to continue in about an additional 15 minutes
> 
> Marvel could do a lot with Cyclops's power fuck the only reason the phoenix likes him is because he has infinite energy in which it can feed off. If his psonic field could extend all over his body he could be much more powerful than he is. Read up on his powers before you criticise them.
> 
> ...



 Soooooooo he can shoot stuff out of his eye and is also a battery. OMG CYCLOPS IS SOOOOOOOOOOOO AWESOME!!!! 

EDIT: cykes visors should have an plus and minus symbol on each side


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 16, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> On another note, have you guys seen the concept art for Guardians of the Galaxy? If the film has even a third of the awesomeness of that poster, it'll be great.



I've seen it, but I'm not count eggs that are still up a chicken's ass.
It'll be good, when it's good


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 16, 2012)

surprised theres no nova in the lineup


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 16, 2012)

probably because of the green lantern movie


----------



## Slice (Jul 16, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> On another note, have you guys seen the concept art for Guardians of the Galaxy? If the film has even a third of the awesomeness of that poster, it'll be great.



I'm not sure if they will manage to sell Rocket Raccoon to the standard moviegoer. :amazed


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 16, 2012)

are you kidding? The puss in boots got its own fucking movie x) RR is going to be in the next avengers movie


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 16, 2012)

Slice said:


> I'm not sure if they will manage to sell Rocket Raccoon to the standard moviegoer. :amazed


I'd think Groot would be the hurdle for moviegoers. Its a sentient tree that shouts "I AM GROOT". That'll probably split viewers between  or "wtf is this shit".


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 16, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> pretty much, I mean everyother mutant can do some crazy shit even wolvie, unbreakable metal bones, sensitive nose, regenaration, super slow ageing and that's just him and that's mid tier abilities compared to other mutants, and then you have cykes, the guy that shoots stuff outta his eyes. he should be cheaper.



Editor Note: you don't get a job designing a comics fighting game with this attitude, true believers!


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 16, 2012)




----------



## Banhammer (Jul 16, 2012)

Wolverine is nothing but a poor man's black panther


Anyway JIM COMES OUT WEDNESDAY


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 16, 2012)

Yeah Cyke's power is a lot cooler when you consider that he doesn't really have many limits. And when you think about the range, speed, and accuracy of your eyes it's kind of ridiculous, or does he have to like really focus or something?


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 16, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Wolverine is nothing but a poor man's black panther
> 
> 
> Anyway JIM COMES OUT WEDNESDAY


is that so, must be why every team in the marvel universe wants him and why he has his own on-going and why his clone use to have her on-going too and why he is the only x-men people that don't read comics know. Yeahhhhhhhh a poor man's black panther, you just keep believing that ban.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 17, 2012)

Everyone wants Black Panther in their team. The reason they can't have him is because they're just too far beneath him
On another hand, all editors want wolverine in their book, because logan sells more beach towels, that's all

Besides, let's check in the game
Wolverine's abilities: Go retarded
Activate Regen

Striker Class (gets a basic attack in vs Infiltrator class (generally the weakest class) opponents which you can't control)

Black Panther

Base Buff: Woven Vibranium, has chace to cause damage to any melee attacker and cause dizzy
Attack One:
Bypasses forcefields, gives buff, bleeds
Attack Two:
Exploits Bleed
Gives Buff
Attack Three
Gives buff
Turns buffs into super buffs
Attack Four
Bypasses defense and energy inangibility
removes buffs
stuns
Tactician Class (gains a whole  other turn against Blasters, the strongest one hit class)


So yeah
Wolverine: Useless when compared to the black panther


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 17, 2012)

look at all that black panther wank and at the end of the day wolverine could still out live him.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 17, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> look at all that black panther wank and at the end of the day wolverine could still out live him.



I'm sorry to butt in, but thats seriously your comeback? "My character is so pathetic the only way he can beat your character is by failing until your character dies of old age."

Seriously?


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 17, 2012)

liked that scene alot so here's a bigger version


*Spoiler*: __ 









I'm guessing Whedon was playing Marvel vs Capcom when he wrote that Mega Optic Blast part


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 17, 2012)

god I hate you, I'm on my cellphone right now. Those photos costme money.
Anyway yes logan is a poor mans black panther, the only time they try to make him more than a useless worf is the time they force to act like him.
But if it matters tchala can just chop off his head with vibranium or the ebony blade.


----------



## Es (Jul 17, 2012)

(Wants to posts scans of Black Panther in the future by Priest)


----------



## Parallax (Jul 17, 2012)

Wolverine is nothing like Black Panther

we get you don't like him Ban and that's cool and all but come on now :|


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 17, 2012)

Buhaha, I did only mean in the game, but it suddenly became fun.

Waste not, want not.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 18, 2012)

New Cable book? 



I like the armored look.


EDIT: So Captain Marvel was pretty good. I thought I wouldn't like the art 'cause it feels murky and 'dirty' at a glance. But its quite awesome and kinetic.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 18, 2012)

All this black panther convo is making me wanna read some...

and what's Cable's new look?



Banhammer said:


> god I hate you, I'm on my cellphone right now. Those photos costme money.
> Anyway yes logan is a poor mans black panther, the only time they try to make him more than a useless worf is the time they force to act like him.
> But if it matters tchala can just chop off his head with vibranium or the ebony blade.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 18, 2012)




----------



## Id (Jul 18, 2012)

Namor is fucking


----------



## Id (Jul 18, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> New Cable book?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:33

They should return back to its roots, lift Cable of TK/TP and make him a full fledged cyborg. 

Expert combatant, and military training goes hand in hand with his T.O. since he can pretty much mold the T.O. into anything.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 18, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> Namor is fucking


----------



## Id (Jul 18, 2012)

Fucking Namor.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 18, 2012)

lol been checking out Namor stuff on Tumblr, the guy is just awesome


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 18, 2012)

*One of my fave Namor moments*


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 18, 2012)

read uncanny x-men

Tony Stark, eat your heart out


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 18, 2012)

reading AvsX

Bad news everyone

It's going back to patronizing and retarded :/

Didn't last long


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 18, 2012)

I mean, it's hard not to want to strangle captain america at the begining, but you soon forget about it when the "twist" comes along


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 18, 2012)

no idea what you're talking about ban


*Spoiler*: __ 



namor attacks, captain america is angry and torn because namor's his friend, namor is defeated other x-men get his power. the end


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 18, 2012)

What will Xavier do 

and UXM was pretty cool, im kinda hyped up for Sinister and Clones vs Magneto and friends :WOW


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 18, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> :33
> 
> They should return back to its roots, lift Cable of TK/TP and make him a full fledged cyborg.
> 
> Expert combatant, and military training goes hand in hand with his T.O. since he can pretty much mold the T.O. into anything.



I actually prefer Jesus Cable. Not Fabian's Jesus Cable, but the Jesus Cable towards the end of Cable's first series. For me, that was Cable at his best.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 18, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> read uncanny x-men
> 
> Tony Stark, eat your heart out



Sinister is ridiculous


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 18, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Well, Gillen did say that he had a definite ending to his run. That said, its sad to see him leave the title. *And I was hoping for a proper "Surtur wrecks everything" arc.*



Looks like we're getting it after all. Gillen, you magnificent bastiche. 

And bloody hell, this issue was ridiculously awesome. Religious terrorism in a Guy Fawkes mask.  Leah.  Doom. 

EDIT: Man, this is a week for sad comics. Poor Layla.


----------



## Id (Jul 18, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I actually prefer Jesus Cable. Not Fabian's Jesus Cable, but the Jesus Cable towards the end of Cable's first series. For me, that was Cable at his best.



Soldier X?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 18, 2012)

Yeah, that was it. Although, I think there were a few issues of Jesus Cable before his book was canceled and turned into Soldier X.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 19, 2012)

Really dug AVX this week, Good action , and Charles finally got to do some thing.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 19, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> no idea what you're talking about ban
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Captain America acts like a bumbling monkey, like, all a disapointed grandparent.
I seriously think "for shame" is the only sentence left in steve rogers vocabulary
Slowly but surely it's like he's being the Marge Simpson of the marvel universe. Nothing has merit until Captain America disaprooves of it
Namor is throwing a fucking tidal wave onto wakanda and is he runing to action to save innocent wakandans? No he's distracting T'Chala to say "see, we were right, scott summers really is a hypocritical holier than thou douche"
I cheered a little when T'Chala gave him an "are you fucking serious right now?" look

Except we know Namor is doing this behind scott's back so it just comes off as cap being a nagging turd.
Specially considering the way he talked to Rachel Grey last month.
Right now being a patronizing dick is like, as much of a super power as his shield.

I find myself wanting to re-read Civil War and root for Tony Stark

Namor was also lame. You really do _not_ touch namor, but his defining trait as a mutant is that it is as relevant to him as are his eyebrows.
He stands with summers out of respect for what the man does, and out of political allegiance with his kingdom
Him going on an I AM HOMO SUPERIOR rant made my stomach churn

Mostly because I felt that the past two issues were going so well


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 19, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Sinister is ridiculous



Fire the cannonballs!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 19, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Fire the cannonballs!



When I first read the line I was like "Wait, what would that even *turns page* OH MY GOD YES"


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 19, 2012)

Muuuu


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 19, 2012)

Weaponized cows were an especially brilliant touch.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 19, 2012)

the cover is pretty clever as well


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 19, 2012)

sinister cows are sinister


----------



## Es (Jul 19, 2012)

Cue banhammer loosing his shit


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 19, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> read uncanny x-men
> 
> Tony Stark, eat your heart out


were he does have the disadvantage of being a hero 



Es said:


> Cue banhammer loosing his shit



and I was gonna post this too , this book shall be


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 19, 2012)

Who is that far left?


----------



## tari101190 (Jul 19, 2012)

Who's on the far left and right? Only know Wiccan.

EDIT:
*Wiccan*, *Kid Loki* and *Miss America * (America Chavez).


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 19, 2012)

Definitely Loki on the right.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 19, 2012)

Es said:


> Cue banhammer loosing his shit


----------



## tari101190 (Jul 19, 2012)

So Miss America has flight and super strength. 

They're probably apart of a New Young Avengers team.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 19, 2012)

If Kieron Gillen is exiting JIM then YA Loki is the single best outcome after Runaways Loki


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 19, 2012)

YOUNG AVENGERS LOKI?!

FUCK. YES.

On a different note, Loki & V.

Fuck yeah.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 19, 2012)

It can't be just them right? Wonder who the other cast members are. Guessing Bishop's out.


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 19, 2012)

jesus christ there's a superhero named miss america... for real?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 19, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> jesus christ there's a superhero named miss america... for real?



there's been several I think actually. I think the one most people are familiar with is one from the 40's that had an appearence in the 90's Spider-Man cartoon


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 19, 2012)

really I thought wonder woman was miss america


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 19, 2012)

Oh man, I was worried that Loki was going to be adultified once Gillen left JIM. Awesome to see KidLoki is still hanging around.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 20, 2012)

I was going to post a very angry post about the newest avx and then I read UXM and JiM and I am now calm again

fuck you marvel. suck your dick Gillen


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 20, 2012)

She's from that  odd vengeance series that was out somme months ago.

I liked it because they tried to fuck with kid loki so he set Thor's God Goats on  them


----------



## creative (Jul 20, 2012)

Al Capone said:


> YOUNG AVENGERS LOKI?!
> 
> FUCK. YES.
> 
> ...



I see I'm going to have to start reading journey into mystery soon. great time too since Parker will be replacing red hulk with red she-hulk for the new book "Red She-Hulk".Fuck Marvel comics.

speaking of sexy superwoman, anyone checked out that new Ms.Marvel?


----------



## lucky (Jul 20, 2012)

wait, what? young avengers loki?


and (spoiler newest journey into mystery)


*Spoiler*: __ 




leah better be back!


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 20, 2012)

a creative color said:


> speaking of sexy superwoman, anyone checked out that new Ms.Marvel?



Yes, I'm impressed. Marvel made a 'strong independent female' without making her dress like a slut


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2012)

I didn't really like soy's art. also i wish the new costume had black instead of blue. but i liked it


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 20, 2012)

my heart is happy for a strong revamp of an old clunky character, but my penis is sad for the lack of blonde fat cow ass

I like carol on just about every medium save for comics so far, and I enjoy watching her get hurt a bit too much, so hopefully this series will change that


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 20, 2012)

I'm still not buying her character on the facebook game.

Specially not when Phoenix Cyclops skins are coming


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 20, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> my heart is happy for a strong revamp of an old clunky character, but my penis is sad for the lack of blonde fat cow ass
> 
> I like carol on just about every medium save for comics so far, and I enjoy watching her get hurt a bit too much, so hopefully this series will change that



As long as you don't wish on her something like giving birth to her rapist.

Now that would be weird.


----------



## Es (Jul 20, 2012)

The Bite of the She-Wolf said:


> As long as you don't wish on her something like giving birth to her rapist.
> 
> Now that would be weird.



Lol Marcus Immortus 

Is it wired that I felt sad when Kang killed his version of Marcus? Although he had backups...


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 20, 2012)

no, I just like watching her getting war effected


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 20, 2012)

I just read Siege!


----------



## noobthemusical (Jul 21, 2012)

Just read the latest Journey into Mystery. Poor Loki.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Jul 21, 2012)

Just read someone over at the CBR X-Books board compare Namor flipping out and attacking Wakanda with Xavier screaming at Scott to the Jerry Sandusky case. 

People over there sure are weird...


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 21, 2012)

One good thing can be told about this event, is that since act II started you have some of the most epic scenes in comic book history

Like Namor and the air carriers, Scott stopping thor with two fingers, New Utopia, or Collosus having dinner with kitty in the middle of a parted red sea.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 21, 2012)

where was that last one


----------



## Es (Jul 21, 2012)

Wolverine and the X Men


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 21, 2012)

uhhh what issue cus i sure dont remember that


----------



## Es (Jul 21, 2012)

It's not out yet I think

It has a preview however


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 21, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> One good thing can be told about this event, is that since act II started you have some of the most epic scenes in comic book history
> 
> Like Namor and the air carriers, Scott stopping thor with two fingers, New Utopia, or Collosus having dinner with kitty in the middle of a parted red sea.



Epic? Surely you jest, Hammer of Ban.

It is nothing more than the Rule of Cool, something that marvel have been using to direct all of their main stories lately


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 22, 2012)

Maybe.

They are very cool though. And very pretty.
And I like it how they're played down casually, like Namor was just a one panel, or Danger's absolute coldness towards the avengers "AM" moment

No one is wanking each other around for thirty minutes straight about "what does this all mean!!"

In fact, when one of them does try to do that (cap when Namor wipes the crap out of wakanda) T'Chala is seriously considering drop kicking his head off


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 22, 2012)

It sounds like you're actually enjoying some parts of avx

This is one of the few moments in my life where you are allowed to tell me I'm wrong


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 22, 2012)

I was just talking about Age of X with someone, I just remembered how I liked this scene alot


*Spoiler*: _Magneto vs New York City_ 







Magneto: 1
NYC: 0


----------



## shit (Jul 22, 2012)

what a waste of time that event was


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 22, 2012)

cant even remember much about it, but it does seem like so, but that scene was pretty cool


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 22, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> It sounds like you're actually enjoying some parts of avx
> 
> This is one of the few moments in my life where you are allowed to tell me I'm wrong



I am

it made me spit blood and bile for months so when it at least stopped eye raping my brain, I smiled

Uncanny X-Men is the main event, with the couple of good parts  in the tie ins being added.

That doesn't mean there isn't a pile of stuff full of piss and vinegar, and it sure looks like we're all going back to it, but a break is a break.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 22, 2012)

Welp, Starlord is coming back. With Thanos already back, I guess this means Rich Rider won't be far behind.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 23, 2012)

natural
The GG movie is coming in 2014 or something after all


----------



## Kanali (Jul 25, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Welp, Starlord is coming back. With Thanos already back, I guess this means Rich Rider won't be far behind.



Feels like Rider is kind of superflous if they're focusing on Sam Alexander unless they make Rider his mentor or something.

When it comes to that Point One I'm more curious as to why Cable is wearing a full metal body armor and using his gun when he has his powers back. I guess he'll probably feature in the last act of AvX.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 25, 2012)

> Bendis: Yeah, I love that comic. That's literally the only negative of coming on here, is that none of the X-Men books suck right now. For a creator, you want to jump on when the book is not good, not when everyone is doing great. That's what Frank Miller got on Daredevil ? when he came on Daredevil, they were going to cancel it, so he could do whatever the hell he wanted, and he saved it.
> 
> Nrama: Certainly Kieron Gillen has gotten a great deal of positive attention for what he's done on Uncanny X-Men as of late.
> 
> Bendis: Kieron is amazing. Everyone on that book is kicking ass, it's wonderful. I admire Kieron a great deal. Kieron also has some fabulous gigs that have not been announced ? truly fantastic gigs that he's born to do ? that you will be hearing about soon. *Particularly fans of Journey Into Mystery, they want their Gillen, and they're going to get it.*


**


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 25, 2012)

allright mr bendis, you sold yourself one more book

all these dark anti heroes are really fucking retarded if you ask me.
They all want to suck captain america's balls while at the same time patronizing him saying how "I'll do something somewhere he won't go" or "he brought me here so I could do the morally dubious shit"

Like Steve never killed a nazi.

It's either them retarded or steve a hypocrite
I don't know which one irks me the most


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 25, 2012)

I mean take a look at summers.
When he funds and assembles a private killer or more, he is then blackmailed as his darkest hour and most terrible of assets

When someone else does it, it's just edgy.
Ares, Logan, Ross, Osborn... Jeez

Like, one is meant to admire Steve, and I do, but it's really hard to remember that when you get one of these assholes going about the noble merits of being a cuntface

"reads watxm, reads legacy" well, the way they are treating the avengers, it seems clear they're finally starting to loose it

"reads hulk"



Nope, burn everything to the ground


----------



## Kanali (Jul 25, 2012)

Yeah its pretty inconsistent. Beast throws a fit when Cyclops as the leader of the last vestiges of mutants creates X-Force but he's totally cool with Wolverine running it on his spare time when he's supposed to be the Headmaster of a school for kids.

I don't get all the Captain America dick riding in the Marvel U. He's never been all that special to me, maybe because I'm not an American but still. Every other hero worshipping the ground he walks on when he makes just as bad (or worse) decisions as they do tends to get weird.

I haven't read much featuring Cap and I'm just going to ignore everything that happens in AvX since I know that these events tend to make characters into something they're not to create conflict where there was none before.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 25, 2012)

It's not the keeping of dubious characters on a team that I object
It's that they are in that team for the purpose of righteous terrorism

Seriously, I don't think Ross or logan are worth a pint of hawkeye's piss, or the scarlet witch's

And hawkeye is no star of bethlaham


----------



## Kanali (Jul 25, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> It's not the keeping of dubious characters on a team that I object
> It's that they are in that team for the purpose of righteous terrorism
> 
> Seriously, I don't think Ross or logan are worth a pint of hawkeye's piss, or the scarlet witch's
> ...



I agree, I don't like either Ross or Logan as Avengers. Cap keeping them around to do stuff the other Avengers wont do makes him as bad as they are (possibly worse).


----------



## shit (Jul 25, 2012)

oh man, narutosss has the worst posts

like I halfway disagree with you guys about logan and hulk and cap so I decide to see what nrdosss has to say since I know he's going to provide the counter argument, and then 

no more clicking "view post" for awhile


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2012)

Kanali said:


> I agree, I don't like either Ross or Logan as Avengers. Cap keeping them around to do stuff the other Avengers wont do makes him as bad as they are (possibly worse).



They were both offered Avengers Membership as redemption actually

Besides Thor, War machine, Valkyrie, Widow, Cap himself all already kill when the time calls for it


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 25, 2012)

shit said:


> oh man, narutosss has the worst posts
> 
> like I halfway disagree with you guys about logan and hulk and cap so I decide to see what nrdosss has to say since I know he's going to provide the counter argument, and then
> 
> no more clicking "view post" for awhile


and here I was holding out on expressing how much of an awful poster I thought you are. now you give me a reason to say it... btw you're sig is disgusting.

edit: now I'mma put u on ignore, so I don't have to look at that base soft porn you pass off as a sig.


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 25, 2012)

ck how do I ignore posters again, for real I forgot cause I only use that shit for special cases.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 25, 2012)

So is anyone else getting tired of Remender just killing characters right and left? He's doing it too often on X-Force, and its kinda ruining the book for me.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> So is anyone else getting tired of Remender just killing characters right and left? He's doing it too often on X-Force, and its kinda ruining the book for me.



I'm still bitter about Ant-man myself


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 25, 2012)

Ant-maaaaaaaaaaaaaan.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2012)

HE's spying on the Wasp's shower in heaven now


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 25, 2012)

FUCK. I keep forgetting he actually died. I keep thinking there was an issue before AvX that showed him alive. Eric O Grady was a boss.


----------



## Es (Jul 25, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> So is anyone else getting tired of Remender just killing characters right and left? He's doing it too often on X-Force, and its kinda ruining the book for me.



Yeah John Steele getting offed annoyed me in SA


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2012)

fathomex died too.


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 25, 2012)

ant-man dead?, so who the fuck is the ant-man running all over AVX, I've even seen him a couple of time in watxm  my brain hurts


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 25, 2012)

Yeah, Fantomex and Gateway is what ruined it for me.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 26, 2012)

RIP Gateway and Fantomex


----------



## Kanali (Jul 26, 2012)

I'm okay with him killing characters. I loved Fantomex but its worked out so far.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 26, 2012)

*Mag-fucking-neto out of nowhere!*

​


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

wut happened?


----------



## Kanali (Jul 26, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> wut happened?



In Uncanny X-Force?


*Spoiler*: __ 



The new Brotherhood of Evil Mutants kidnapped Psylocke, Fantomex got a super STD from banging Mystique which made him temporarily lose his powers yet he still rushed in and saved Psylocke but got himself killed in the process. Then Gateway got his neck snapped by Fantomex's pet robot nanny and the whole team got thrown into the future by Psylocke using gateway's powers. After seeing how much the future sucked and that it was kinda her fault Psylocke decided to kill herself (it probably won't stick though).


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

Buhaha, I just read it

The whole issue made me smile


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

no magneto tho


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Jul 26, 2012)

:::: reads spoilers for First X-Men ::::

Oh FUCK YOU, MARVEL.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

complete and utter garbage, but not unexpected complete and utter garbage


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Jul 26, 2012)

I know, I know... It's just that all this rewriting of X-Men history(especially with what's coming up in a couple of months) is incredibly frustrating because the X-franchise is what got me into Marvel to begin with.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 26, 2012)

wait where you guys get spoilers


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> I know, I know... It's just that all this rewriting of X-Men history(especially with what's coming up in a couple of months) is incredibly frustrating because the X-franchise is what got me into Marvel to begin with.



Well, what got you into it is still all pretty good and canon.
And the mutant franchise is doing pretty swanky right now, with UXM being one of the very best books out there right now.

So fret over it when it comes around


----------



## creative (Jul 27, 2012)

ah fuck my eyes. why did I talk myself into reading the avengers (Bendis run) from heroic age. jesus christ diarrhea of the mouth all over the fucking place.


----------



## Es (Jul 27, 2012)

a creative color said:


> ah fuck my eyes. why did I talk myself into reading the avengers (Bendis run) from heroic age. jesus christ diarrhea of the mouth all over the fucking place.



Yeah bro it's bad. Can't wait for marvel now despite how bad Caps redesign looks


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 27, 2012)

I don't think it's too bad, I mean they didn't really change all that much. The boots and gloves definitely needed an update. Not sure how I feel about the cowl/helmet though.

Speaking of Cap, anybody read Winter Soldier? Probably the best solo ongoing at marvel, and easily one of the best books they're putting out period. I love that Ed grabbed Jasper from Secret Warriors as his Ops guy.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Jul 27, 2012)

Just read Uncanny X-Force, interesting stuff they getting into


----------



## typhoon72 (Jul 27, 2012)

I dunno Whip. Winter Soldier better than Daredevil? Nooot likely. But ill check it out.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 27, 2012)

well DD isn't very good


----------



## typhoon72 (Jul 27, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Hopefully someone else takes up this debate. Imma just watch


----------



## Parallax (Jul 27, 2012)

It's not really much of a debate


----------



## typhoon72 (Jul 27, 2012)

It's quality stuff Para.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 27, 2012)

It's got some of the best art on the stands

coupled with the most pedestrian writing on the stands


----------



## typhoon72 (Jul 27, 2012)

Why do you say that?


----------



## Parallax (Jul 27, 2012)

because the writing is serviceable at best and that's really it.  The whole book is literally carried by the art team and it's such a shame that such talented artists are stuck on a creatively bankrupt book


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 27, 2012)

> Probably the best solo ongoing at marvel, and easily one of the best books they're putting out period.


in b4 journey into mystery


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 27, 2012)

Es said:


> Yeah bro it's bad. Can't wait for marvel now despite how bad Caps redesign looks



blasphemy. opena's design looks 1000x better. though cassaday half ruins it by bringing the chain mail back into it, so it only looks maybe 50x better

on daredevil, i dunno, it always stood out because of the art. the writing is very standard superhero/personal life stuff, but that's not so bad because you don't see much of that anymore outside spider-man it seems like. and its occasionally clever. 

but it doesn't match up to remender or gillen books imo


----------



## typhoon72 (Jul 27, 2012)

Parallax said:


> because the writing is serviceable at best and that's really it.  The whole book is literally carried by the art team and it's such a shame that such talented artists are stuck on a creatively bankrupt book



Meh, I can see your point, but (personally) I think the minimalist writing approach is working quite well for Daredevil right now. It captures the tone of the story and the feeling of the art perfectly.

Not every book needs to be such a heavy read. Which is why, I think, people are loving Waid's DD run so far. It's a nice change of pace from everything else on the stands. It's simple but not easy, light but not lame. It's got that One Piece dichotomy going on.



> *AVC: What’s the first thing you do when you take on a long-term superhero assignment like Flash or Fantastic Four or Daredevil, assuming Daredevil is long-term?*
> 
> *MW:* It is. They’re going to pry that out of my cold, dead fingers, man. What you do is, you take it back to center. You take whatever parts of it have been grafted on by well-meaning but poorly executed creators in the years since, and you pare the detritus away, is what you do. My job—it was true of Superman: Birthright, it was true of Fantastic Four, it was true of Daredevil—is to go off in a room and think about those characters and think about all the reasons I love them. I look at them as like tarnished gems. My job is to get out a cloth and shine them up and make them glisten again, and show you why I love those characters, and what it is about them that I respond to on an emotional level. A lot of times, that means either ignoring years of continuity, or stripping certain things away, but basically getting everything back to a primal level. I don’t want to say back to basics, but back to center is probably a better way of saying it. Once you’ve got a good foothold in the center, then moving away from there. I think modern superhero comics in particular traditionally do a very poor job of, on a routine basis, just reminding you of who these characters are, why they do what they do, and what they want. I challenge you to go into a comics store tomorrow and find me 10 comics that you can read and come away from them being able to answer those questions. I think that’s very important in serial fiction, to be able to remind people from time to time of those three things. I think that’s the first thing you do. You go back to those characters, and you make sure the reader comes away from that first issue knowing who they are and what they want, and most importantly, why they do what they do that is unique to them.



Edit: Somewhat ninja'd by Petes


----------



## Parallax (Jul 27, 2012)

I have nothing against it being light, if anything I'm all for it.  I just don't really like the way it's been handled.  Still that art sure is pretty.


----------



## shit (Jul 27, 2012)

the best I can say for DD is I never find myself disliking an issue


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 27, 2012)

Parallax said:


> It's got some of the best art on the stands
> 
> coupled with the most pedestrian writing on the stands



Pretty much. It's not bad, but honestly my first thought when reading it (after I gushed over the art) was how funny it was that DD was being written like Nightwing when 10 years ago Dixon was writing Nightwing like DD.



Banhammer said:


> in b4 journey into mystery



That I will give you. I like them equally, but I'll say that WS has better art while JiM has better writing.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 27, 2012)

for some reason i still havent read an issue of winter soldier


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 27, 2012)

Gillen makes the diffence between desgusting red hulk busting rushmore and hilarious loki wearing guy de fawkes mask blowing up stonehenge


----------



## Es (Jul 27, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> blasphemy. opena's design looks 1000x better. though cassaday half ruins it by bringing the chain mail back into it, so it only looks maybe 50x better



I was hoping for something more shiny


----------



## creative (Jul 28, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I don't think it's too bad, I mean they didn't really change all that much. The boots and gloves definitely needed an update. Not sure how I feel about the cowl/helmet though.
> 
> Speaking of Cap, anybody read Winter Soldier? Probably the best solo ongoing at marvel, and easily one of the best books they're putting out period. I love that Ed grabbed Jasper from Secret Warriors as his Ops guy.



I'm still back tracking captain america, vol 5. I'm loving bucky as the agitated, unbalanced but willing new captain america. sucks that his run in the ol' red white and blue ended so soon but I can't wait to sink into winter solider. I'm also saving up money to to buy criminal by Baubarker.


----------



## hitokugutsu (Jul 28, 2012)

shit said:


> the best I can say for DD is I never find myself disliking an issue



Yeah but its a shame Riveira is gone. New artist is doing a decent job, but still not on par with early 10+ issues Riveira did

Also Winter Soldier is still fucking bad-ass. Bucky & Doom need to team-up more often


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 29, 2012)

Isn't doom meant to be in the Bridge's wreckage?


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 29, 2012)

FF is making a strong case for being the second best Marvel book


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 29, 2012)

It sure is, wakandan malarky notwithstanding


----------



## Cromer (Jul 29, 2012)

As the winding down after massive climax, ending arc to a glorious run, the Wakandan thing is much better than almost anything I can remember.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 29, 2012)

I liked the part where they showed how Wakanda was so smart rather than having us take it at blackface value

I mean we've always been suposed to be ever so impressed by their abilities to make pits with spears on the bottom and generic anti air artillery


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 31, 2012)

Bloody hell, Esad Ribic and Jason Aaron are taking over Thor. Freaking. Fantastic. Finally, I can read that title again.


----------



## shit (Jul 31, 2012)

long time coming


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jul 31, 2012)

Can't see Aaron working on Thor. Ribic is fine though, he works on anything


----------



## shit (Jul 31, 2012)

thor seems right up aaron's alley

asgard and all that not so much

probably gonna be in the same vein as his hulk, just thor off getting into crazy shenanigans


----------



## Es (Jul 31, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pOwL89S734&list=PLBDAD9FE8227EE8A1&index=1&feature=plpp_video[/YOUTUBE]

Best pilot ever


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 1, 2012)

Was looking at an earlier issue of Avengers where Old Stark plots out the story line to Stark during that bad time-travel story.......and there's no mention of AvX

Take that how you will


----------



## Id (Aug 1, 2012)

Was he drunk?


----------



## Memos (Aug 1, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> Was he drunk?



Isn't he always?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 1, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> Was looking at an earlier issue of Avengers where Old Stark plots out the story line to Stark during that bad time-travel story.......and there's no mention of AvX
> 
> Take that how you will



it only went up to like fear itself or something


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 1, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> it only went up to like fear itself or something



Ultron War


----------



## shit (Aug 1, 2012)

I guess that means this event turns out to be largely forgettable and inconsequential

what a shock


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 1, 2012)

shit said:


> I guess that means this event turns out to be largely forgettable and inconsequential
> 
> what a shock


I honestly had forgotten all about AvX. 

That Invincible Iron Man 521 tho.


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 1, 2012)

The first arc of Winter Soldier was good and all...but Daredevil 16 just destroyed all the haters


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 2, 2012)

shit said:


> I guess that means this event turns out to be largely forgettable and inconsequential
> 
> what a shock



wat

it might be but there is no logical basis for that. 

i am wondering what the bold new direction will be allegedly for marvel, they say the event does change a lot. and there's a big creator shakeup that looks mostly good. but beyond the x-men of the past thing, we're not really seeing yet what's different story wise that will set this apart so much from pre-avx


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 2, 2012)

It finally  happened



The Sham Marriage to end all sham marriages is over.  Thank you Based Aron


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 2, 2012)

what a dick way to break it off


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 2, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> what a dick way to break it off



her "Family" and Technical Ex-Husband just reduced his country to rubble he is entitled to be a dick.....wait how did i end up taking BP's side...some thing has gone horribly horribly wrong


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Aug 2, 2012)

Too bad they both won't die. It'd probably make this awful event maybe worth 1/10th of the paper it's printed on.


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 2, 2012)

MEh i Have thoroughly Enjoyed this event so far. Good action interesting story, i'm disappointed with the X-men's actions but its consistent as they have been written like that since Messiah complex.

and the after math should make for some good stories


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 2, 2012)

It kinda cracks me up that they're breaking up T'challa and Ororo right after they married Jean-Paul and...his dude. The ensuing shitstorm of "Marvel hates minorities" should be entertaining.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Aug 2, 2012)

Knowing what's coming after it, I expect no good stories. Or at least no good stories featuring characters I actually care about.


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 2, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> It kinda cracks me up that they're breaking up T'challa and Ororo right after they married Jean-Paul and...his dude. The ensuing shitstorm of "Marvel hates minorities" should be entertaining.


 Jean-paul and Kyle were actually in a relation ship for more then 5 minutes before they tied the not, all and all it was handled a million times better


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 2, 2012)

Oh, I have no problem Jean-paul and Kyle. I just didn't remember Kyle's name. I don't read Astonishing anymore, but the little of what I've seen of that couple is decent.

I just meant that it tickles me that they're trading one minority marriage for another. As if they have a quota that doesn't allow for both to exist simultaneously.

But yeah, T'challa and Storm never should have been hooked together in the first place.


----------



## shit (Aug 2, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> It finally  happened
> 
> 
> 
> The Sham Marriage to end all sham marriages is over.  Thank you Based Aron



haw haw

they never had kids, they were never meant to last


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 2, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> *MEh i Have thoroughly Enjoyed this event so far. Good action interesting story*, i'm disappointed with the X-men's actions but its consistent as they have been written like that since Messiah complex.
> 
> and the after math should make for some good stories



Why am I not surprised?


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 2, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> Why am I not surprised?



god forbid some one have an opinion different from you right?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 2, 2012)

So is it all but confirmed that Emma's going to die in this? I really really hope not, but this issue really pointed in that direction.

Also, lol BP, and the spider-man scene was retarded.


----------



## Kanali (Aug 2, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So is it all but confirmed that Emma's going to die in this? I really really hope not, but this issue really pointed in that direction.
> 
> Also, lol BP, and the spider-man scene was retarded.



Anything could still happen. I think she's biting the dust though which sucks because she's my favorite female character.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 2, 2012)

The art from AvX went from crap, to amazing, to meh...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 2, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Anything could still happen. I think she's biting the dust though which sucks because she's my favorite female character.



She's definitely up there for me, but her and cyclops together are probably my favorite couple in marvel. They're one of few pairings where each character is made more interesting by being with the other.


----------



## shit (Aug 2, 2012)

yes m0, you said that already


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 2, 2012)

Yeah... My phone somehow re-posted that while it was in my pocket.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 2, 2012)

LIL_M0 said:


> The art from AvX went from crap, to amazing,* to meh*...



Is Coipel already off the book? He didn't even last 3 issues?


----------



## Michael Lucky (Aug 2, 2012)

*New Marvel Movie*


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 2, 2012)

Yeah. One of the Kubert's is penciling it now. It's not bad art but after Coipel(?) it's not an improvement.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Aug 2, 2012)

interesting stuff happening on recent AvX, looking forward to next issue now

and was Xavier using Psylocke's psychic knife?


----------



## Kanali (Aug 2, 2012)

I'm just anxious for it to end. Meanwhile I'm enjoying X-Factor, Age of Apocalypse and Uncanny X-Force.


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 2, 2012)

So how did Spider-Man not die again?


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 2, 2012)

typhoon72 said:


> So how did Spider-Man not die again?



by colossus pulling his punches and getting pulled out of the fire by Logan and Cap, he was in bad shape when it was all said and done.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Aug 2, 2012)

typhoon72 said:


> So how did Spider-Man not die again?


Avengers Plot Armor?. Only the ones with movies either out or coming up can afford it.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 2, 2012)

typhoon72 said:


> So how did Spider-Man not die again?



colossus wasn't trying to kill him?


----------



## shit (Aug 2, 2012)

so who's gonna make the "logan was right" t-shirts?

I vote banhammer


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 3, 2012)

I'm pretty sure avx tops the list for most character's ruined out of all Marvel stories


----------



## Kanali (Aug 3, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> I'm pretty sure avx tops the list for most character's ruined out of all Marvel stories



Definitely.


----------



## Narutossss (Aug 3, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> I'm pretty sure avx tops the list for most character's ruined out of all Marvel stories



I'm not actually reading AvX but is it as bad as ultimatum?


----------



## Kanali (Aug 3, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> I'm not actually reading AvX but is it as bad as ultimatum?



I haven't read Ultimatum but from what I know about it, no. Since this is 616, if anyone dies they'll be brought back and all the bullshit that happened here can be retconned as the years go by. All in all, it won't do too much damage in the end. Ultimatum on the other hand raped the Ultimate line and killed a shit load of characters (and since Ultimate Marvel is supposed to be a more realistic place, resurrections probably aren't going to happen for the forseeable future).


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 3, 2012)

ultimatum is better than avx, no question. Don't make me forum-bitch slap anyone that disagrees with me


----------



## Doom85 (Aug 3, 2012)

Ultimatum is a failure simply because of one moment: Blob eating Wasp*. That was just revolting and insulting to fans of her character, it's like a five-year old who thinks he's being all "cool and edgy" was writing this shit. But then add all the other lame deaths with no meaning to them whatsoever and just a meaningless story altogether and Ultimatum fails on every possible level. Seriously, Jeph Loeb, were you getting paid based on how many bullshit deaths you could squeeze into this event? 

*seriously writers, don't let superheroes get eaten (I'm okay with a few civilians getting eaten, but use it effectively to make the antagonist an intimidating threat and not as a cheap shock tactic) unless it's all "going through a large mouth of a giant and have to escape" sort of thing. They did the same shit with Teen Titans when Wonder Dog ate Marvin, which makes me really glad I only picked up the 2000's volumes that Geoff Johns wrote because geezus that book must have gone to shit fast after he left the title if stuff like that was going down. I expect comics to be mature where it matters, and yes some blood and carnage will occur occasionally but spare me the "giant-poop monster ripping out everyone's intestines and eating them" shit.

But yeah, aside from Ultimate Spider-man, I couldn't ever pick up any Ultimate stories that occured after that. Sure, I bet some of them are good, but the damage was done. It's like you went to your favorite restaurant when suddenly an employee walked up, slammed his food tray in your face and then began stabbing you with a fork. Of course the restaurant fires him and assures you it will never happen again but would you really want to go back to that restaurant? I admit, I don't read much current 616 Marvel (will pick up the good Deadpool stuff and I want to check out that Loki series) since I'm much more of a DC guy, but I can't imagine even the worst 616 (or DC) crossovers ever making me feel the way Ultimatum did.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 3, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> ultimatum is better than avx, no question. Don't make me forum-bitch slap anyone that disagrees with me



Time has made your hate for the low-ebb weak 

Up to issue 5 AvX was maybe runner-up to ultimatum. Now its middling quality for an event


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 3, 2012)

AVX does suck, but really issue 5 on it's own might be my favorite marvel event issue...ever? Probably not ever, but it was really really good. Basically, I'm saying that 5 alone makes AvX better than ultimatum.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 3, 2012)

surely you mean 6


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 3, 2012)

Ah, yeah, read your post wrong. The first (only?) Hickman/Coipel issue.


----------



## shit (Aug 3, 2012)

I can't agree with anything beIng worse than ultimatum olpp I'm sorry


----------



## shit (Aug 3, 2012)

Dormammu popping strange like a grape is worse than blob eating wasp


----------



## creative (Aug 3, 2012)

so I heard that the marvel now inititve is going to cancel several x-books (astonishing, adjectivless and legacy basically). now the question remains. how long do I have to wait for the x-men to be readable again?


----------



## Kanali (Aug 3, 2012)

Astonishing isn't being cancelled, the writer confirmed it.

Legacy is getting relaunched.

Don't know about adjectiveless.


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 3, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> I'm pretty sure avx tops the list for most character's ruined out of all Marvel stories



Not really anything questionable the characters have done are ether in character or can be explained as the Phoenix's fault.

To Imply this is worse than Ultimatum or The Crossing is foolish.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Not really anything questionable the characters have done are ether in character or can be explained as the Phoenix's fault.
> 
> To Imply this is worse than Ultimatum or The Crossing is foolish.



Like when Wakanda got massacred and Cap's first reaction is "See BP I told you so!"?


----------



## shit (Aug 3, 2012)

well, on the real, cap is useless on that level threat

so all he's gonna do is say something

or would you like him to throw his shield at the tsunami?


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 3, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Like when Wakanda got massacred and Cap's first reaction is "See BP I told you so!"?



So captain america is ruined for you because he felt the need to point out that BP's "Well i don't see the harm in them remaking the world..." approach was proven wrong? i mean it snot like cap just stood their he was going with to help


----------



## Es (Aug 3, 2012)

It does make him seem inconsiderate


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 4, 2012)

I wouldn't call it ruined but I'd say cap has, more than any other character, really come off as a dick this event when he probably shouldn't. More even than cyclops, since cyclops' later actions can be blamed on the phoenix. I also feel the comic is coming dangerously close to ruining emma frost coming up, but that's just based on where things seem to be going, not anything that's happened yet. 

Not nearly as destructive as ultimatum, and even ignoring all character defects in both, loeb's writing is so much worse than anyone on AvX even bendis.


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I wouldn't call it ruined but I'd say cap has, more than any other character, really come off as a dick this event when he probably shouldn't. More even than cyclops, since cyclops' later actions can be blamed on the phoenix. I also feel the comic is coming dangerously close to ruining emma frost coming up, but that's just based on where things seem to be going, not anything that's happened yet.
> 
> Not nearly as destructive as ultimatum, and even ignoring all character defects in both, loeb's writing is so much worse than anyone on AvX *even bendis.*



 Come on in an Event where Fraction is writing Bendis shouldn't be the one getting the Cheap shot


any way Yeah How much of a Dick cap is Varies from person to person

and Emma has always played fast and loose with the ethics of her power.

but i agree with you for the most part


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 4, 2012)

but if they break up emma and cyclops so he can be with the new young JG, or kill him so the new young cyclops can be with the new young JG, i'll be annoyed. 

And just because fraction wrote a bad event doesn't mean he deserves cheapshots any more than bendis.


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> but if they break up emma and cyclops so he can be with the new young JG, or kill him so the new young cyclops can be with the new young JG, i'll be annoyed.


 Cyclops isn't gonna Die, Bendis confirmed hes  in his Book, Plus he is getting that Atrocious new costume, as fro breaking him and Emma up, unlikely but its been a plot tumor for a long time so i won't be opposed to it personally.



> And just because fraction wrote a bad event doesn't mean he deserves cheapshots any more than bendis.


Fraction wrote a bad event and a Run on X-men that made people want Chuck Austen back Meanwhile Bendis  is Writing  one of easily the best books on the market in USM [even if you don't like it allot of  people  highly praise it and it was nominated for an Eisner ]


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Aug 4, 2012)

a creative color said:


> so I heard that the marvel now inititve is going to cancel several x-books (astonishing, adjectivless and legacy basically). now the question remains. how long do I have to wait for the x-men to be readable again?


With Bendis writing? Probably a few years.


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 4, 2012)

Nothing Bendis dose on his worse day will be half as bad as what fraction did


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 4, 2012)

his avengers

fraction's done good stuff too zen stop being so annoyingly hateful

and cyclops could just be the new cyclops from the past


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> his avengers


 is not that bad.



> fraction's done good stuff too zen stop being so annoyingly hateful


 why am i not allowed to be hateful  



> and cyclops could just be the new cyclops from the past


why would he go into that new abomination of a costume.


----------



## Kanali (Aug 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> his avengers
> 
> fraction's done good stuff too zen stop being so annoyingly hateful
> 
> and cyclops could just be the new cyclops from the past



No. They should kill off 40+ years of character development for a blank state. And Bendis pretty much confirmed modern day Cyclops is surviving AvX when he said that a big part of Jean's return is regular Cyclops and Wolverine's reactions.


----------



## shit (Aug 4, 2012)

I'm gonna say it

bendis is ripping off remender in bringing jean back

remender was probably going to keep AoA jean in 616, but bendis was all like "naw, I wanna do that, lemme do that instead in a much more completely retarded fashion"


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 4, 2012)

Bleargh, now I'm worried Remender is going to kill of Dum Dum Dugan...


----------



## Kanali (Aug 4, 2012)

shit said:


> I'm gonna say it
> 
> bendis is ripping off remender in bringing jean back
> 
> remender was probably going to keep AoA jean in 616, but bendis was all like "naw, I wanna do that, lemme do that instead in a much more completely retarded fashion"



I'm guessing the reason AoA Jean didn't stay in 616 is because they wanted her for the AoA series. AoA Jean is fucking awesome though so I wouldn't have minded seeing her in 616.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 4, 2012)

AoA Jean got fully depowered in the first issue of the AoA series, and all she's doing now is being trained by AoA Batman. I don't think she plays an integral role or anything there.

I'm thinking shit's scenario is more likely.


----------



## Kanali (Aug 4, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> AoA Jean got fully depowered in the first issue of the AoA series, and all she's doing now is being trained by AoA Batman. I don't think she plays an integral role or anything there.
> 
> I'm thinking shit's scenario is more likely.



Its still only been 6 issues, she'll probably do something useful eventually.


----------



## shit (Aug 4, 2012)

the whole AoA series is just a cash in on an otherwise completely missed opportunity to bring awesome characters to 616

I have it subscribed, and it reads like an actually well written ultimatum


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Its still only been 6 issues, she'll probably do something useful eventually.


Probably. But its clear that Lapham didn't need or want her. He's just worked her into his already existing story.



shit said:


> the whole AoA series is just a cash in on an otherwise completely missed opportunity to bring awesome characters to 616
> 
> I have it subscribed, and *it reads like an actually well written ultimatum*


Thats a bit harsh, imo. While you're right about it being a cash in by Marvel, the story itself is good. Good story, glorious art. Its way, way better than Ultimatum.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 4, 2012)

So after AvX wraps up, there will be a 5 issue mini dealing with the aftermath entitled *AvX: Consequences* 

I can't post it from my phone, but the cover is has a few Marvel heroes standing over a chalk outline of a male figure (presumably Cyclops). 

Idk about the rest of you guys, but I've grown tired of these post event Aftermath minis. I'm pretty sure they can wrap this up in one issue and let the happenings in the tie-in ongoings be told in the respective series.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 4, 2012)

Well, they wouldn't be Marvel if they didn't try to squeeze their readers of all their money.

Any bets on whether Marvel will pull a Fear Itself and put the actual conclusion of AvX in Consequences?


----------



## Kanali (Aug 4, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Thats a bit harsh, imo. While you're right about it being a cash in by Marvel, the story itself is good. Good story, glorious art. Its way, way better than Ultimatum.



This. Its an awesome book. 

And once again, the chalk outline can't be Cyclops'. Bendis already let slip that he survives.


----------



## shit (Aug 4, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Thats a bit harsh, imo. While you're right about it being a cash in by Marvel, the story itself is good. Good story, glorious art. Its way, way better than Ultimatum.



the big thing every issue is a notable character getting killed off
change for the sake of change, characters fed into the fodder grinder

tho I said it was well written


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 4, 2012)

LIL_M0 said:


> So after AvX wraps up, there will be a 5 issue mini dealing with the aftermath entitled *AvX: Consequences*
> 
> I can't post it from my phone, but the cover is has a few Marvel heroes standing over a chalk outline of a male figure (presumably Cyclops).
> 
> Idk about the rest of you guys, but I've grown tired of these post event Aftermath minis. I'm pretty sure they can wrap this up in one issue and let the happenings in the tie-in ongoings be told in the respective series.



by gillen tho


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 4, 2012)

LIL_M0 said:


> So after AvX wraps up, there will be a 5 issue mini dealing with the aftermath entitled *AvX: Consequences*
> 
> I can't post it from my phone, but the cover is has a few Marvel heroes standing over a chalk outline of a male figure (presumably Cyclops).
> 
> Idk about the rest of you guys, but I've grown tired of these post event Aftermath minis. I'm pretty sure they can wrap this up in one issue and let the happenings in the tie-in ongoings be told in the respective series.


 Fuck they are gonna kill off professor X again Aren't they 

any way i expect it to be good, after all this bull shit the hell fire club must be selling Sentinels like Crazy


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Fuck they are gonna kill off professor X again Aren't they
> 
> any way i expect it to be good, *after all this bull shit the hell fire club must be selling Sentinels like Crazy*




Here's that cover I was talking about and another one for... Avengers plus X-Men?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 4, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Well, they wouldn't be Marvel if they didn't try to squeeze their readers of all their money.
> 
> Any bets on whether Marvel will pull a Fear Itself and put the actual conclusion of AvX in Consequences?


What was the actual conclusion of FI? Last I read, Thor died and some dude named Tanarus showed up in his stead eating a big piece of chicken. 


Kanali said:


> And once again,the chalk outline can't be Cyclops'. Bendis already let slip that he survives.


Really? I wasn't aware of this. 



Petes12 said:


> by gillen tho


I liked his Thor and JiM.


----------



## Kanali (Aug 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Fuck they are gonna kill off professor X again Aren't they




*Spoiler*: __ 



Professor X survives too. Here are a few panels of post-AvX Wolverine and the X-Men


----------



## shit (Aug 4, 2012)

Probably an avenger died since the outline is surrounded by avengers


----------



## Kanali (Aug 4, 2012)

shit said:


> Probably an avenger died since the outline is surrounded by avengers



Exactly. 10char


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 4, 2012)

i doubt it. avx is barely an avengers story. could be wanda i guess, but she's barely been back. could be hope. or emma.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 4, 2012)

shit said:


> the big thing every issue is a notable character getting killed off
> change for the sake of change, characters fed into the fodder grinder
> 
> tho I said it was well written



Ah, okay, I see what you mean now. I guess AoA has the excuse of being AoA when it comes to killing characters. The Age of Apocalypse is going to have a high mortality rate. 

But yeah, I can see how that would annoy you.



LIL_M0 said:


> What was the actual conclusion of FI? Last I read, Thor died and some dude named Tanarus showed up in his stead eating a big piece of chicken.


I don't actually know. I gave up midway through Fear Itself. But I do remember hearing a podcast where people raged about the conclusion being in those three aftermath issues.


----------



## shit (Aug 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> i doubt it. avx is barely an avengers story. could be wanda i guess, but she's barely been back. could be hope. or emma.



Wanda is in remender's avengers durr

My guess is black panther


----------



## creative (Aug 4, 2012)

LIL_M0 said:


> So after AvX wraps up, there will be a 5 issue mini dealing with the aftermath entitled *AvX: Consequences*
> 
> I can't post it from my phone, but the cover is has a few Marvel heroes standing over a chalk outline of a male figure (presumably Cyclops).
> 
> Idk about the rest of you guys, but I've grown tired of these post event Aftermath minis. I'm pretty sure they can wrap this up in one issue and let the happenings in the tie-in ongoings be told in the respective series.



I'm tired of main comic events period. pointblank.org. they take forever to finish and insist on pitting readers to drop dollars like japanese tax-men out on a friday night splurge at a whorehouse in kyoto. not only that but the stall it takes for me to read my usual comic has to deal with tie-ins for an event I usually do not care for. did I mention this shit eats at my hunger for creativity? because it does.

/bitchfit.

so yeah. I just read #9 of AVX. lol at t'challa breaking up with storm. dis guy gonna lose it when she starts flirting with thor again.


----------



## Kanali (Aug 5, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> i doubt it. avx is barely an avengers story. could be wanda i guess, but she's barely been back. could be hope. or emma.



Wanda is in Remender's Avengers. And I don't think Emma and Hope could be described as "one of the greatest heroes in the Marvel Universe". 

If it is an Avenger we know it can't be :

Iron Man
Cap
Thor
Wolverine
Beast
Iron Fist

Since they've already shown up in post-AvX teasers.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 5, 2012)

so who read hawkeye?


----------



## Kanali (Aug 5, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> so who read hawkeye?



I did. It was okay. Nothing amazing but not bad either.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 5, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> so who read hawkeye?



I did...I liked it. It's not spectacular or anything but it's a good read. I'll give it a couple more issues before I decide I want if I want to keep it on my pull list


----------



## creative (Aug 5, 2012)

gonna download hawkeye tonight when I finish my final paper. I really enjoyed captain marvel though.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 5, 2012)

i liked it a lot honestly. aja is amazing


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 5, 2012)

The art was heaven tier but the story was pretty standard fair. Didn't like how Hawkeye took some hits from Bro Gangstas, but that's nitpicky.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 6, 2012)

typhoon72 said:


> The art was heaven tier but the story was pretty standard fair. Didn't like how Hawkeye took some hits from Bro Gangstas, but that's nitpicky.



Yeah, I get that it doesn't really fit the shtick their coming from (and I like said shtick), but I hope they don't make hawkeye too much of a scrub.

At the very least the minute his hand touches a bow he should wreck everyone.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 6, 2012)

I've been catching up on Invincible Iron Man. I thinks it's funny how Fraction and Larocca have ignored the Iron Man 2.0 series. Rhodey has never appeared in the IM2.0 armor, and he is still being called War Machine (until the new Tron suit anyways).


----------



## Es (Aug 6, 2012)

He was still called War Machine in Iron Man 2.0


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 6, 2012)

Es said:


> He was still called War Machine in Iron Man 2.0



Oh. I didn't know that.


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 7, 2012)

The everyman shtick in Hawkeye is so forced and affected and schmaltzy.  It's kind of cute and interesting at first, but it becomes totally strained and annoying by the middle.  Are we honestly supposed to believe a bunch of random dudes can take him out?  And what's up with the dialogue?  

Beyond all of the random swipes of homages to Miller and Mazzuchelli's work, this book is basic.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 7, 2012)

ghstwrld said:


> The everyman shtick in Hawkeye is so forced and affected and schmaltzy.  It's kind of cute and interesting at first, but it becomes totally strained and annoying by the middle.  *Are we honestly supposed to believe a bunch of random dudes can take him out?  And what's up with the dialogue?*
> 
> Beyond all of the random swipes of homages to Miller and Mazzuchelli's work, this book is basic.



Hey, bro, what was wrong with that dialogue, bro?

And given the Ronin stuff him running from a few dudes is kinda suspect, but for the whole 70's loose cannon cop shtick to work he can't be a kung fu master. Hope they find a bit more of a happy medium between giving him more dangerous threats so they don't have to play him down so much.

Overall though it was a good (not great) first issue. Fraction needs to pick it up though, Aja def carried him a bit here.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 7, 2012)

every Marvel issues is basic for ghst WW don't bother


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 7, 2012)

Eh, I was kind of interested because as far as Marvel/DC issues go Ghst seemed to think this wasn't bad, or that it had the potential to be unbasic. Basically, I expected he would dislike it far more than he did ha.


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 7, 2012)

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm getting at, WW.  I even wrote that the lifts from Batman: Year One and Born Again are good.  If Parallax wasn't so pressed and defensive, he wouldn't have stepped with such foolishness.  



Parallax said:


> every Marvel issues is basic for ghst WW don't bother



Most Marvel books are total dreck.


----------



## shit (Aug 7, 2012)

everyone thinks hipsters are kinda cool at first


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 7, 2012)

His stuff is still ridiculously overpraised, though.


----------



## shit (Aug 7, 2012)

Fraction?
Petes is his only big fan on this board
Everyone generally agrees his Thor and x-men and FI were flops


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 7, 2012)

I thinkI like his Iron Man


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 7, 2012)

The Most Wanted arc is still great


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 8, 2012)

His Iron Man in general is great, it's just the FI stuff was such a speedbump for the book. I think for a while Marvel was thinking Fraction could be their go to A List writer (Let's put him on X men! let's put him on Thor! let's get him to do our next event!), but the guy's got his strengths and weaknesses like any other writer.


----------



## shit (Aug 8, 2012)

I like defenders


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 8, 2012)

Defenders is a horrible team name


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 8, 2012)

shit said:


> I like defenders



Same, but every issue should be like the most recent issue. Limited overarching plot, insane scenarios/adventures.


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 8, 2012)

Spider-men Is Amazing


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 9, 2012)

Spider-Men and New Avengers were both good. Only marvel stuff I've read so far. Cap in NA is so different from Cap in AvX. Loved Xavier's semi-breakdown, the little "Doctor" argument, reed dropping some knowledge, and Namor's appearance.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 9, 2012)

Illuminaty meetings are always fun
I don't like Xavier's charicterization, I mean, it's half right and half rape, but Richards laying the cynical detached smackdown on tony's head is glorious


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 9, 2012)

See I liked how here Cap's argument was more "A super awesome benevolent dictator is still a dictator, and a benevolent master race is still a master race." as opposed to "But the phoenix!"


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 9, 2012)

It's still a goddamned high time to put his horse on that race, but if he would do that, in this situation, that is the horse he'd put

Which is, at least, better than the previous bullshit


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 9, 2012)

Did avx come out? 

Also what is marvel doing with the fantastic four my god. there goes all the enthusiasm hickman built


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 9, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Did avx come out?
> 
> Also what is marvel doing with the fantastic four my god. there goes all the enthusiasm hickman built



Only New Avengers this week. 

and yeah I don't like the new Marvel Now FF at all

also Defenders is getting canned with issue 12


----------



## Es (Aug 9, 2012)

I liked the commentary on AVX in Avengers Academy Final Exam


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 9, 2012)

Uhhh, Future Foundation as the FF B team? Not exactly something to get excited about. I thought the whole point of FF was that it was a bunch of eccentric geniuses getting into sciencey shenanigans.

And apparently Defenders is ending with issue 12, so that just makes this even worse.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 9, 2012)

AvsX 10 preview shows Iron Fist comparing Summers to mussolini



Wut?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 9, 2012)

ok i asked because you guys were talking about some speech cap gave and i was thinking, did i miss an issue?

and yeah, uh both really. fantastic four has bagley drawing so color me immediately uninterested, and fraction's plan so far seems to be one shot adventures. Which I'm sorry, is not that interesting even under hickman most of the time. 

And then FF, I dunno what the fuck that is.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 9, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Uhhh, Future Foundation as the FF B team? Not exactly something to get excited about. I thought the whole point of FF was that it was a bunch of eccentric geniuses getting into sciencey shenanigans.
> 
> And apparently Defenders is ending with issue 12, so that just makes this even worse.



Exactly...it completely ruins the appeal of the book to just shift the mad science appeal and the kids and replace them with three people who were essentially temps when they were on the team and some body cosplaying as Thing. never mind the fact that I hate Scott Lang's new redesign or that Medusa being there makes no sense. I mean I like She Hulk I really do, but there's a better use for her somewhere else. 

I'm going to give F4 a shot, but only one. if the first issue doesn't blow me away it's getting taken off my pull list just like Red She-Hulk will.

Yeah Defenders getting axed just annoys me


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 9, 2012)

Do you guys think Fraction went after FF or just got it handed to him because he's an "architect" and therefore has to be on a big franchise? 

Bendis got X-Men and Hickman got avengers. Fraction already did Thor (and did it poorly), and he obviously can't do Iron Man. 

If it got handed to him, or offered/strongly suggested to him, I kinda feel for the guy.

Looking at the above it almost seems like he went into it knowing it wouldn't be better/on par with Hickman and was like "Well, I gotta do something."


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 9, 2012)

I think maybe defenders got canceled and fraction wanted to do more weird shit and had the perfect artist available and so he did it with FF. And called it a homage to the wtf factor of kirby comics.

but I don't care about kirby pastiches, or the magic schoolbus fantastic four edition.


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 9, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Do you guys think Fraction went after FF or just got it handed to him because he's an "architect" and therefore has to be on a big franchise?



I think they decide by drawing lots.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Aug 10, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> AvsX 10 preview shows Iron Fist comparing Summers to mussolini
> 
> 
> 
> Wut?


Gotta make sure the Avengers always look good...


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 10, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> AvsX 10 preview shows Iron Fist comparing Summers to mussolini
> 
> 
> 
> Wut?



I read that Bendis has Cap compare the Phoenix 5/mutants to Hitler/Nazis in this week's New Avengers. So the Mussolini comparison is to be expected.


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 10, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I read that Bendis has Cap compare the Phoenix 5/mutants to Hitler/Nazis in this week's New Avengers. So the Mussolini comparison is to be expected.



well Wakanda, The hell prison, the Brainwashing ,and general all around douchy "were saving the world cause we can who are you to question us" tendencies tends to invite those comparisons.

Any Way I read Fractions Hawkeye...Where has This Fraction been for the last couple of years?


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 10, 2012)

So does Iraq, Guantanamo and the general all around douchy"were saving the world cause we can who are you to question us"


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 10, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I read that Bendis has Cap compare the Phoenix 5/mutants to Hitler/Nazis in this week's New Avengers. So the Mussolini comparison is to be expected.



Well there it's more like "a benevolent master race is still a master race" and that I can kinda get. At least it came across a lot better than Cap has in most of AvX proper.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 10, 2012)

...isn't calling the mutants the master race kind of... accurate? They _are_ the next step in evolution. Or well, they were.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 10, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> ...isn't calling the mutants the master race kind of... accurate? They _are_ the next step in evolution. Or well, they were.



True, which is how Reed seems to see it. Still though, I can't fault Cap for not wanting to just jump onboard with the idea.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 10, 2012)

I still don't see much mutant supremacy running around though
The only prisons out there are for well known dangerous enemy provocateurs, that yes, are pretty mentally fucked up, but are no difrent than what they did to Victoria Hand, and she was innocent all along


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 10, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> So does Iraq, Guantanamo and the general all around douchy"were saving the world cause we can who are you to question us"



the difference is a matter of  accountability.

Plus the Argument kinda breaks down when you see stupid  shit like "fixing" the tectonic plates and Crab legs on Whales


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 10, 2012)

Accountability
>Avengers


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 10, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Accountability
> >Avengers



The Avengers didn't Take over the world.

When the avengers Start Literally playing god then this will be an apt comparison.

cause the last 3 times an individual avengers went the route the p5 the avengers were the first to try and stop them.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 10, 2012)

I'd say Cap started to have a point when Scott and co. went to the UN or whatever and basically said "Stop squabbling and make peace or we'll make it for you". He's right, but it's still treating world governments like bratty children. You let them do what they want until they're doing it wrong.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 10, 2012)

Should I engage on another long winded conversation with Zen aku pointing out that the closest thing to taking over the world the p5 have done so far was ban war, the fact that Thor, Tony Stark, Franklin Richards, Red Hulk, Wolverine, Captain America, Dr Strange and the Scarlet Witch have been accountable to no one before, or that the continuing results of a phoenix mishosting that can lead to any number of problems are all the avengers fault anyway or


should I just point and laugh anyway?


I'm going with pointing and laughing


----------



## Blinky (Aug 10, 2012)

How about going with stopping these fucking arguements because they never go anywhere anyway?


----------



## Michael Lucky (Aug 10, 2012)

Blinky said:


> How about going with stopping these fucking arguements because they never go anywhere anyway?


----------



## Narutossss (Aug 10, 2012)




----------



## Banhammer (Aug 10, 2012)

Blinky said:


> How about going with stopping these fucking arguements because they never go anywhere anyway?


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 10, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Should I engage on another long winded conversation with Zen aku pointing out that the closest thing to taking over the world the p5 have done so far was ban war, the fact that Thor, Tony Stark, Franklin Richards, Red Hulk, Wolverine, Captain America, Dr Strange and the Scarlet Witch have been accountable to no one before, or that the continuing results of a phoenix mishosting that can lead to any number of problems are all the avengers fault anyway or



Thor and Tony stark where held accountable, Franklin is a kid, and the red hulk was in jail till he got a second chance cause cap is big on second chances, Scarlet Witch was Crazy, and Wolverine, Cap and Strange have never tired to take over the planet so there is no point in bringing them up

as for what the p5 have done?

Brainwashing people into being peaceful and Using their powers with no foresight or care for the natural order. 

They have done more then just ban war which they had no right to do any way.


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 10, 2012)

Gambit #1 was actually pretty decent

Im reading Days of Future Past and this shit makes no sense, but whatever. How the fuck do you go back in time using memories?


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 10, 2012)

typhoon72 said:


> Gambit #1 was actually pretty decent
> 
> Im reading Days of Future Past and this shit makes no sense, but whatever. How the fuck do you go back in time using memories?



look at when it was made.


----------



## creative (Aug 10, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Thor and Tony stark where held accountable, Franklin is a kid, and the red hulk was in jail till he got a second chance cause cap is big on second chances, Scarlet Witch was Crazy, and Wolverine, Cap and Strange have never tired to take over the planet so there is no point in bringing them up
> 
> as for what the p5 have done?
> 
> ...



speaking as one of the sole members on this board who reads red hulk and the avengers (not anymore though), Red attempted to assassinate Cyclops because he needed a killer on the team(Cap never said anything of the sort per-say, but the implication was there). usually that would be Wolverine but since, Wolverine has gone full aspie for a while now...


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 10, 2012)

Avengers Assemble is going to continue in Marvel Now with a creative team... wut? really? THAT book?

Even more surprising it looks like a good creative team, deconnick and caselli


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 10, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Avengers Assemble is going to continue in Marvel Now with a creative team... wut? really? THAT book?
> 
> Even more surprising it looks like a good creative team, deconnick and caselli



we can nver have enough Avengers books apparently. even if said book becomes unnecessary after a creator leaves 

also because of Bleeding Cool I can't unsee the Hulk's Gordon Ramsey face


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 10, 2012)

gordon is much angrier than the hulk anyway


----------



## the box (Aug 10, 2012)

how about that mr.sinister huh?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 10, 2012)

even with the new costume JRJR is drawing the stupid little helmet wings on cap WHICH HE HAS NEVER NOT EVER BEEN ABLE TO DRAW. they're always so out of perspective its incredible.


----------



## shit (Aug 10, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Avengers Assemble is going to continue in Marvel Now with a creative team... wut? really? THAT book?
> 
> Even more surprising it looks like a good creative team, deconnick and caselli



I thought waid was going to start writing it


----------



## Kanali (Aug 10, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Thor and Tony stark where held accountable, Franklin is a kid, and the red hulk was in jail till he got a second chance cause cap is big on second chances, Scarlet Witch was Crazy, and Wolverine, Cap and Strange have never tired to take over the planet so there is no point in bringing them up
> 
> as for what the p5 have done?
> 
> ...



And the P5 were possessed by a omniversal force of death and rebirth that has a reputation of corrupting its hosts. Only the Avengers get excuses?  And Wanda was the one that ruined the natural order by throwing a hissy fit and dooming a people, which was the reason that the Phoenix came to Earth in the first place. 

And it would have chosen Hope - the girl destined since birth and a perfect host - to host it if Tony and the Goonsquad hadn't had the bright idea of "Lets shoot a beam canon and destroy a vital universal force. That totally won't upset the natural order or anything" and led to it being split in five and picking five imperfect hosts, 3 of which have shady pasts, 1 of which has a bad track record with hosting great power, 2 of which have notoriously bad tempers and 1 of which is the Avatar of an evil demon bent on destruction and mayhem. 

And then when the P5 - against all odds - managed to control themselves and use their immense powers for the good of the world, the Avengers decided that it would be good idea to poke the dragon which led to the notoriously temperamental one to attack them. They kick his ass which results in his power going to the others which in turn gives them even more power to control (and its not like they were controlling what they had in the first place effortlessly) which in turn led to a highlander style "there can be only one". 

I wish it weren't so, but everything is the Avengers faults. In Marvel's "no one is wrong, everyone is right, there are no villains here" someone ALWAYS ends up being the villain/complete dumbass and the Avengers are the complete dumbasses, just like the Registration side and everyone but the Hulk before them. 

tl;dr Everything is the Avengers faults


----------



## Narutossss (Aug 10, 2012)

personally I blame the scarlet witch..... bitch should have been killed a long time ago


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 11, 2012)

Latest New Avengers is probably the best 616 book by Bendis I've read in ages. Unlike the dross that is coming out, it has everything that can make a comic great. Solid characterizations and conflicting interactions in moments of great turmoil, the Illuminati (truth be told, probably Bendis best 616 creation) and really exemplifying the bond between the characters. 

It's unfortunate that the rest of avx is the complete opposite and focuses purely on ruining characters for the Rule of COOL!


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Aug 11, 2012)

I wonder what Cap did with those mutant torture devices that he demanded to take from Cable in X-Sanction?


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 11, 2012)

Well, shit. The good JRJR might be back. I think I'll have to check out Remender's Cap.


----------



## creative (Aug 11, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> we can nver have enough Avengers books apparently. even if said book becomes unnecessary after a creator leaves
> 
> also because of Bleeding Cool I can't unsee the Hulk's Gordon Ramsey face



That's okay I guess since the past three issues of incredible hulk was actually good.

I really, really hate Jason Aaron but I'm starting to think some of his original ideas for wolverine and x-men are bleeding onto big green.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 11, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Well, shit. The good JRJR might be back. I think I'll have to check out Remender's Cap.



its not bad, and JRJR's work always looks nicer when you can't see a character's face. But the way he does the helmet wings drives me nuts. They aren't even supposed to be there anymore!


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 11, 2012)

Holding the shield like that just cannot be convenient.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 11, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> its not bad, and JRJR's work always looks nicer when you can't see a character's face. But the way he does the helmet wings drives me nuts. *They aren't even supposed to be there anymore!*



I like the head-wings, so I'm okay with them still being there. The only thing that bothers me about them is the angle on the left-wing. Thats just odd.

It could just be the terrible art JRJr has been putting out for a while now, but this cover looks pretty great to me. ...maybe its the colorist.


----------



## shit (Aug 11, 2012)

nice background


----------



## Michael Lucky (Aug 11, 2012)

​


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## Petes12 (Aug 11, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I like the head-wings, so I'm okay with them still being there. The only thing that bothers me about them is the angle on the left-wing. Thats just odd.
> 
> It could just be the terrible art JRJr has been putting out for a while now, but this cover looks pretty great to me. ...maybe its the colorist.



thats what i was complaining about on the last page, he always does that with those little wings and it drives me nuts. its like, jrjr, i try to give you credit where its due, but can you not even do basic perspective?


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 11, 2012)

Michael Lucky said:


> ​



that used to be on someone's set


----------



## Blinky (Aug 11, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> Latest New Avengers is probably the best 616 book by Bendis I've read in ages. Unlike the dross that is coming out, it has everything that can make a comic great. Solid characterizations and conflicting interactions in moments of great turmoil, the Illuminati (truth be told, probably Bendis best 616 creation) and really exemplifying the bond between the characters.
> 
> It's unfortunate that the rest of avx is the complete opposite and focuses purely on ruining characters for the Rule of COOL!



Uncanny X-Men is a good tie in. The best imo.


----------



## Narutossss (Aug 11, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> thats what i was complaining about on the last page, he always does that with those little wings and it drives me nuts. its like, jrjr, i try to give you credit where its due, but can you not even do basic perspective?


do you even know what basic perspective is?


----------



## Kanali (Aug 11, 2012)

I really dislike JrJr's art. I really dislike Captain America too so I won't be reading it anyways. The new Legion book looks promising though.


----------



## Narutossss (Aug 11, 2012)

personally cap works for me in a team book, the only captain america run I've ever read was  homeland only because chris bachalo was drawing it. alot of readers don't like his cap, fools  

as for Jrjr I really liked his artwork in the black panther cartoon


----------



## Kanali (Aug 11, 2012)

I only know him from WWH and art was pretty terrible for the most part.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 11, 2012)

I know him from one of my first damned comics, a hardcover which I read the fucking shit out of it, time, after time, after time until the pages fel off

It was daredevil, man without fear, and it was amazing

It kills me to read JrJr nowadays


----------



## Narutossss (Aug 11, 2012)

on the plus side he's one of the faster artists that gets his shit in on time, as good as coipel is, he only lasted 2 issues on AvX, while romita was on for 5 issues.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 11, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> personally cap works for me in a team book, the only captain america run I've ever read was  homeland only because chris bachalo was drawing it. alot of readers don't like his cap, fools
> 
> as for Jrjr I really liked his artwork in the black panther cartoon



Brubaker's Cap was pretty awesome. Lame now though.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 11, 2012)

Did they really relaunch Captain A 3 times in the last ten years, twice within 2?

I'm not a huge issue numbers ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) but that's a bit silly


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 11, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Uncanny X-Men is a good tie in. The best imo.



I'm the last person alive that you should tell to read a Gillen book. I have enough posters of him on my walls



Kanali said:


> I only know him from WWH and art was pretty terrible for the most part.



Wahhhhh....? WWH is one of the comics that really suited JrJr. He's best in a setting where things get really messy and visceral, which is why I really enjoyed the Hulk/Sentry fight


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 11, 2012)

telling omlpp to read  more gillen is like telling a white trash hooker to have more children


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## Kanali (Aug 11, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> Wahhhhh....? WWH is one of the comics that really suited JrJr. He's best in a setting where things get really messy and visceral, which is why I really enjoyed the Hulk/Sentry fight



He did do a good job with the rawness and mess of WWH but I still think that the art was too clunky and a bit too cartoonish. I don't really know much about artists but I think someone like Robert De La Torre would have done a better job. He draws messiness and destruction great in AOA but his art is also beautiful.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Aug 11, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> that used to be on someone's set



the humor there reminds me of PBF Comics


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> do you even know what basic perspective is?



yeah i do. i draw and do other artsy things sometimes.


----------



## shit (Aug 12, 2012)

Post ur drawerings


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## Banhammer (Aug 12, 2012)

DO EEEEEEEET


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## Narutossss (Aug 12, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> yeah i do. i draw and do other artsy things sometimes.


niceee, we're in luck, I major in art and recently started teaching myself sequential arts. btw I draw all the time... now lets see some of your work


----------



## Parallax (Aug 12, 2012)

I just found out about FF #1 (I'm super slow on comic news these days) and while I kinda dislike the need to renumber everything all the time I'm stupid excited just on the basis of Allred being involved


----------



## Kanali (Aug 12, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I just found out about FF #1 (I'm super slow on comic news these days) and while I kinda dislike the need to renumber everything all the time I'm stupid excited just on the basis of Allred being involved



I don't like the cast though. There's going to take something very retarded for Medusa to give up her job as Queen of the Inhumans and leave her husband in the arms of 4 ladies dying to please him in order to join the not quite Fantastic Four.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 12, 2012)

I don't care Allred is involved and I can forgive the casting because of that


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 12, 2012)

We have unilateraly brought everyone global peace, life to desolated envyroments, free clean energy to entire continents, protected earth from an evil master race, and done so without  taking a single life, or permanent injury, or taking away anyones freedoms despite having the power to easily do so.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 12, 2012)

dany rand iron fist of a heaven city's reaction? "even mousollini got the trains going on time"
What?


----------



## Narutossss (Aug 12, 2012)

I wonder how many issues after AvX before everyone is friends again


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 13, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> I wonder how many issues after AvX before everyone is friends again



3 minis and 2 spin-offs


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 13, 2012)

well there might still be issues between them, but remender's avengers series has them all working together and thats right after avx


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 13, 2012)

Presumably, Remender's book will have them working together, but the tension and distrust will be a theme.



Narutossss said:


> I wonder how many issues after AvX before everyone is friends again


That will happen in the follow up event called Hug It Out Bitches, where for 7 issues the X-Men and Avengers go to therapy, hold hands, and sing Kumbaya.


----------



## Kanali (Aug 13, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> That will happen in the follow up event called Hug It Out Bitches, where for 7 issues the X-Men and Avengers go to therapy, hold hands, and sing Kumbaya.



And it will be a better story than AvX


----------



## shit (Aug 13, 2012)

they should've given this whole event to hickman

or they should've let remender get a piece of it at least


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 13, 2012)

I can't even imagine how great this would be if it was just Hickman / Coipel.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 13, 2012)

Gillen.

Gillen and Hickman. It doesn't matter who's on art, even pages full of cocks would be a better story than it currently is with those two


----------



## creative (Aug 13, 2012)

shit said:


> they should've given this whole event to hickman
> 
> or they should've let remender get a piece of it at least



but if Reminder got this event, it would have lead back into Daken fucking with the X-men and Avengers. Actually, why hasn't mavel made Reminder write Daken yet. it seems legit.


----------



## shit (Aug 13, 2012)

just cuz remender pulled a daken once doesn't make daken his thing

aaron would also write a decent daken
williams was writing a pretty good daken before marvel shitcanned it


----------



## Kanali (Aug 13, 2012)

Way/Liu wrote the best Daken. 

Also here are the covers for All New X-Men #1, Iron Man #1 and Uncanny Avengers #2


----------



## Narutossss (Aug 13, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I can't even imagine how great this would be if it was just Hickman / Coipel.


it would be great if coipel lasted more that 2 issues and actually drew the share he was meant to


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 13, 2012)

Immonen is drawing X-Men? Im in.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 13, 2012)

I wish he wasn't cause with the premise and price point I'm definitely not


----------



## shit (Aug 13, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Way
> 
> best





nope


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 14, 2012)

Is that Eric O'Grady on the FF cover? He's not dead anymore? 


...Too bad he's being written by Fraction.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 14, 2012)

yes

but it's Fraction with Allred : D


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 14, 2012)

its scott lang


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 14, 2012)

Aw, damn. I forgot Scott Lang was back.



Parallax said:


> yes
> 
> but it's Fraction with Allred : D



Eh, thats not really much of a draw. Fraction's Thor had Ferry and Copiel and it was still shit.


----------



## creative (Aug 14, 2012)

shit said:


> nope



I know how you feel shit,but way is a fair writer when he's not blowing deadpool.
His ghost rider is still considered one of his better stories.


----------



## shit (Aug 14, 2012)

I think you compared him too much with loeb since they were basically partners in creating daken
That would make any writer look like shakespeare


----------



## Kanali (Aug 14, 2012)

shit said:


> nope



You can give the credit to Liu if you like but during their run Daken was a smart, sophisticated assassin that played mind games with people and only used sex to fuck with people (see what I did there? ). During William's run he was a drug addict who was in love with a psychopath and killed himself because of his daddy issues.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 14, 2012)

I hated Daken even when he was someone I loved.
Try as you might, there was always that loeb smell that made me sick.
He's the half asian, half white, edgy and dark tatoos bisexual, pretty and sophisticated despite being the long lost son of wolverine with swords that come out of his palms and his knuckles, who has "fuck me" pheromone powers ontop of his daddy's healing factor
Oh and his hair is a perfectly sculped tomahawk mullet

I mean, could you be any gayer?


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 14, 2012)

I mean, at some point in his stories, his dialogue was sharp, his plans were genuinely smart, the way he manipulated everyone around him, genuine and interesting, the way he undermined everyone's sexuality to the point where he could even plant subconscious homosexual desires on fucking Jhonny Storm, hilarious, and the art was pretty acceptable, despite being cheekbones man, but still

Egh


----------



## Kanali (Aug 14, 2012)

I read the Way/Liu Daken before the Loeb stuff so I was fine with it all


----------



## shit (Aug 14, 2012)

Kanali said:


> You can give the credit to Liu if you like but during their run Daken was a smart, sophisticated assassin that played mind games with people and only used sex to fuck with people (see what I did there? ). During William's run he was a drug addict who was in love with a psychopath and killed himself because of his daddy issues.



way/liu: gary stu

williams: not a gary stu

how much a "winner" daken happened to be at the time has little to nothing to do with how well the issues and arcs were written


----------



## Kanali (Aug 14, 2012)

shit said:


> way/liu: gary stu
> 
> williams: not a gary stu
> 
> how much a "winner" daken happened to be at the time has little to nothing to do with how well the issues and arcs were written



His descent into drug abuse wasn't well written it came out of no where. One issue he was supreme crime boss of Madripoor, the next he's doing Heat in L.A. Neither was him falling in love with the FBI agent when he was confirmed as being asexual.


----------



## shit (Aug 14, 2012)

it was well written

him becoming crime boss of madripoor was tripe b/c who gives a flying fuck about madripoor

it's way's fault that he wrote him into that situation with it leading to nothing

the heat stuff was interesting

the last few issues with him killing himself was mainly b/c marvel wanted to cancel the series


----------



## Kanali (Aug 14, 2012)

shit said:


> it was well written
> 
> him becoming crime boss of madripoor was tripe b/c who gives a flying fuck about madripoor
> 
> ...



Meh, I can't remember where Way's run ended and William's run began. William's might have done better if Marvel hadn't axed it so fast 

What confuses me the most about Daken is why he's saying stuff like "my old man and his geek friends" and "I got the straight dope learned the hard way" in Uncanny X-Force. Was he in 90's rapper hell?


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 14, 2012)

I felt like a drug trip was okay, because drugs do sneak up on you out of nowhere, and well, what else was going to happen to a washed up child star?


----------



## shit (Aug 14, 2012)

anyway, it's stupid arguing about this since daken only had two writers


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 15, 2012)

And the most recent AvsX iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis


Lazy shit!
Huzzah!


----------



## Cromer (Aug 15, 2012)

More talking about a washed up series that refuses to end...huzzah? (Not insulting you in particular, just wishing this shit would end...like yesterday)


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 15, 2012)

At least it sucks for a new reason now


CHAOS PUNCH


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 15, 2012)

just one more month


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 15, 2012)

So Looking at the november solicits...Journey Into Mystery is not being cancelled but it is switching creative teams and characters (Loki for Sif). also Avengers Academy is ending 

and in terms of something I really want to buy Avenging spider-Man is teaming up with Devil Dinosaur and Moon Boy


----------



## Es (Aug 15, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> So Looking at the november solicits...Journey Into Mystery is not being cancelled but it is switching creative teams and characters (Loki for Sif). also *Avengers Academy is ending*
> 
> and in terms of something I really want to buy Avenging spider-Man is teaming up with Devil Dinosaur and Moon Boy



FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFuck everything


----------



## Kanali (Aug 15, 2012)

My dream of another X-Book featuring Magneto and the Realist Squad is dying by inches. The November solicits aren't giving me much hope. I guess we're stuck with Saint Wolverine the Hypocritical and his gospel of "lets go back to the old status quo".


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 15, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> So Looking at the november solicits...*Journey Into Mystery is not being cancelled but it is switching creative teams and characters (Loki for Sif)*. also Avengers Academy is ending
> 
> and in terms of something I really want to buy Avenging spider-Man is teaming up with Devil Dinosaur and Moon Boy



  Kathryn Immonen writing Sif aught to be fantastic.

Actually, I wouldn't mind if they rotated the main character on Journey Into Mystery like they're doing for X-Men Legacy. We had Loki, now Sif. I really wouldn't mind a good 15-20 issues devoted to a Tyr story, or the Warriors Three.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 15, 2012)

Sif >>>>> Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Wolverine and Daredevil as a striker class in dat Facebook Avengers game.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 16, 2012)

So. Betsy and Logan bumping uglies, eh? Dystopian future indeed. Also, ew.


----------



## Kanali (Aug 16, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> So. Betsy and Logan bumping uglies, eh? Dystopian future indeed. Also, ew.



Aye, there are dark times ahead.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 16, 2012)

Oh god, the X-Men using the Bamfs for hookups is hilarious. 


Actually, hey, whats the deal with the Bamfs? I don't remember there being an explanation for where they popped up from. Are they AoA Nightcrawler's kids?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 16, 2012)

the only explanation is that they came from another dimension (the one nightcrawler bamfs through I'm sure) when beast was messing with science or something.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 16, 2012)

Ah, okay. Well, I'm okay with that. Whiskey drinking teleporter babies are fantastic in any case.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 16, 2012)

teleporting is just the best power in all fiction


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 16, 2012)

At least, it's the most fun


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 16, 2012)

Yep, yep, I've always loved teleporting. Probably one of the deadliest abilities when used properly. Alas, it rarely is.


----------



## the box (Aug 16, 2012)

AvX 10 is out does anyone have a place to read it


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 16, 2012)

no fuck off


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 16, 2012)

Come now Petes, there's no need to be rude.



the box said:


> AvX 10 is out does anyone have a place to read it



Here you go!


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 16, 2012)

read it in hell


----------



## Parallax (Aug 16, 2012)

go to a comic book store


----------



## Kanali (Aug 16, 2012)

Buy a boat and journey to the pirate bay. Bring lots of rum and wenches to trade for your issue. 

I'm glad the Thunderbolts are going away in November. They've just been dragging down the Dark Avengers so far. It should be either or, not trying to give them both adequate panel time in one book.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 16, 2012)

WHAT ABOUT TORTUGA?


----------



## Narutossss (Aug 16, 2012)

just read issue 14 of watxm, fuck what happened to this book, it was nearly painful reading it, fuck comic book events and they're ability to derail everything around it to oblivion.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 16, 2012)

The one where colossus goes all Jesus on their ass?

It's not that bad


----------



## shit (Aug 16, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Avengers Academy is ending



I can't even be mad
when the title became event bitch to FI and AvX, it lost all direction
I thought there was a path, an ending in mind, a climax
but the climax I guess was iron skull face and hazmat feeling sorry for themselves


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 16, 2012)

I wish they could get the guy who did the dialogue on academy into the childrens crusade

The human moments were pretty nice, it was the over arching plot that felt not so good to me

Not to mention the cast itself. Fuck you Reptile, I hate you


----------



## Kanali (Aug 16, 2012)

I hate Striker, that guy is such a douche. The only reason I read this title was for Quicksilver and he's barely around anyways so I'm not sad to see it go.


----------



## shit (Aug 16, 2012)

I still love finesse


----------



## Es (Aug 16, 2012)

shit said:


> I can't even be mad
> when the title became event bitch to FI and AvX, it lost all direction
> I thought there was a path, an ending in mind, a climax
> but the climax I guess was iron skull face and hazmat feeling sorry for themselves



Final Exam isn't even bad though 

The events have been fucking it over but those were likely to help the title itself. Too bad AVX is shitty


----------



## shit (Aug 16, 2012)

final exam?


----------



## Es (Aug 16, 2012)

The current arc

It has the Young Masters working for Briggs


----------



## shit (Aug 16, 2012)

sorry I get my comics mailed to me after long pauses

last arc I read was emma trying to destroy the sentinel


----------



## Es (Aug 16, 2012)

It has promise, granted I want to see more of Briggs motive but it's a nice start


> e human moments were pretty nice, it was the over arching plot that felt not so good to me


It had an antagonist from ROM show up. Your argument is invalid


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 16, 2012)

I'll casually admit Finesse is the best character out of the whole bunch

And her interactions with X-23 were nothing short of glorious


----------



## shit (Aug 16, 2012)

you know how to earn a rep, banhammer


----------



## Narutossss (Aug 17, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> The one where colossus goes all Jesus on their ass?
> 
> *It's not that bad*



yes it was. this comic is called wolverine and the x-men, even though this issue had no wolverine, completely new artist I didn't really like and the whole fucking issue was pretty much a date gone wrong, hardly any student interaction, not to mention nothing eventful happened, (pun unintended) this isn't the wolverine and x-men I loved reading, I don't know this shit is, it's not my Watxm.


----------



## creative (Aug 17, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> yes it was. this comic is called wolverine and the x-men, even though this issue had no wolverine, completely new artist I didn't really like and the whole fucking issue was pretty much a date gone wrong, hardly any student interaction, not to mention nothing eventful happened, (pun unintended) this isn't the wolverine and x-men I loved reading, I don't know this shit is, it's not my Watxm.



I can almost feel your rage pulsing from my computer monitor. it's honestly a pretty great feeling. so my mavel comics pull in review:

captain marvel: fuck yes time traveling, fuck yes fraction's wife for actually knowing how to write carol and fuck yes for X-23 fanmail

venom:happy it ended the way it did, going to enjoy the shit outta secret avengers because of it. Bunn needs to stop taking the things I enjoy though.

spider-men: goddammit Bendis. i-it's not like I'm crying or anything...

avx:lazy fuck-ups: the comic

uncanny x-forcelder betsy looks vaguely like an older version of Vicky Krieps. and yet this is ruined because wolverine can't help but stick his dick where it shouldn't belong. still very fucking fun though

incredible hulk: oh my freaking god I cannot wait for waid to end this miserable rump of a comic with indestructible hulk. the past two or three issues have actually been great since it lacked alot of hulk smashing, but ya see, that's exactly the problem with this run. despite that, watching wolverine and thing getting shitted on by gordan ramsey hulk is funny as hell.



hulkast two issues have become abit of a grinder, which sucks because it only that I'll soon be reading about red she-hulk. I'm just not sure how to cope with that yet.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 17, 2012)

So I remember when AvX first came out I was mildly interested that Iron Fist would be getting a bit of spotlight. I figured it it wouldn't be anything of real substance, but spotlight in a big event can't be a bad thing right?

What a fool I was....


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 17, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> yes it was. this comic is called wolverine and the x-men, even though this issue had no wolverine, completely new artist I didn't really like and the whole fucking issue was pretty much a date gone wrong, hardly any student interaction, not to mention nothing eventful happened, (pun unintended) this isn't the wolverine and x-men I loved reading, I don't know this shit is, it's not my Watxm.


----------



## Blitzomaru (Aug 17, 2012)

This event is still the stupidest thing I've read since Ultimatum and Ultimates 3....


----------



## Kanali (Aug 17, 2012)

Yup its dumb as fuck.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 17, 2012)

10 was fucking awful. sadly, we get glimpses of something so much more interesting in emma's struggle with the phoenix, but the whole issue is spent on that shitty 'fight' scene with cyclops floating around going 'cmon hope enough of this shit'


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 17, 2012)

I'm genuinely amused to see Emma go X-Force on people's asses.

Mostly because of the hypocrisy and frothy rage that makes it rise on the uncanny avengers hatedom's mouth


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 17, 2012)

And we got the single worse depiction of shao lao maybe ever. I'm not entirely versed in the history of iron fist, but has any artist ever actually drawn him as a medieval dragon?


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 17, 2012)

I though it was Shou Lao

And no, dragons have a seprentine feel to them in the marvel universe.
Case in point, the Agents of Atlas dragon and the respective rivals


----------



## Kanali (Aug 17, 2012)

Also having a european style dragon in Magical Kung-Fu China is extremely stupid. Smh AvX.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 17, 2012)

Nevermind.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Aug 17, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> yes it was. this comic is called wolverine and the x-men, even though this issue had no wolverine, completely new artist I didn't really like and the whole fucking issue was pretty much a date gone wrong, hardly any student interaction, not to mention nothing eventful happened, (pun unintended) this isn't the wolverine and x-men I loved reading, I don't know this shit is, it's not my Watxm.


my sentiments exactly 


Petes12 said:


> 10 was fucking awful. sadly, we get glimpses of something so much more interesting in emma's struggle with the phoenix, but the whole issue is spent on that shitty 'fight' scene with cyclops floating around going 'cmon hope enough of this shit'



should AVX VS be for this, I actually would've liked see more VS books and less fighting on the main book.


----------



## shit (Aug 17, 2012)

the VS books are trash


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 17, 2012)

Vs books are nothing but the awfull pieces of shredded trash paper people get to stuff their delivery boxes

Despite a few rare gems that made me smile


----------



## Blitzomaru (Aug 17, 2012)

This whole thing will end one of 3 different cliched ways.
1) Scott kills the professor.
2) Scott realizes that Emma is ?ber dark, kills her
3) someone compares him to Gyrich and the sentinels. 

Either of these will lead to a 'my god what have I done' moment and his self-exile...


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 17, 2012)

So he'll pull a captain america?


----------



## shit (Aug 17, 2012)

he's there on the avengers promo so I don't think so

this will end with a whimper


----------



## Kanali (Aug 17, 2012)

shit said:


> he's there on the avengers promo so I don't think so
> 
> this will end with a whimper



Which Avengers promo?


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 17, 2012)

I think that's the sixty's Scott Summers


----------



## shit (Aug 17, 2012)

in that outfit??

with that visor???


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 17, 2012)

I know

Someone call the fashion police cause I'm about to commit a hate crime


----------



## shit (Aug 17, 2012)

obvs that's current cyclops after being hopped up on phoenixuana


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 17, 2012)

I thought it was a gay daredevil


----------



## shit (Aug 17, 2012)

when daredevil turned down squirrel girl, he confirmed himself gay


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 17, 2012)

And now his spandex backs up his claim to rainbow throne


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 17, 2012)

shit said:


> when daredevil turned down squirrel girl, he confirmed himself gay



isnt he like 10 years older than her? and she has a tail. and he's basically the kyle rayner of marvel so you could say he was looking out for her?


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 17, 2012)

Wolverine is three centuries older than her, but that furry still got in her pants


----------



## Blitzomaru (Aug 18, 2012)

The tail is great for leverage when have doggyst- Er, I mean, she's such an innocent....


----------



## shit (Aug 18, 2012)

you can look out for a girl without turning down casual sex

unless ur a ghey


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 18, 2012)

If you're a homosexual, it will also help


----------



## Michael Lucky (Aug 18, 2012)

lol, reminds me of a meme


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 18, 2012)

Michael Lucky said:


> lol, reminds me of a meme



the Card Crusher meme? yeah I thought of that too when I read it


----------



## creative (Aug 19, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Wolverine is three centuries older than her, but that furry still got in her pants



Wolverine doesn't bathe. bitches love the scent of the Canadian wilderness. trutalk.org.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 19, 2012)

?au du frommage


----------



## creative (Aug 19, 2012)

pick slightly related.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Aug 19, 2012)

^ lol my childhood



Emperor Joker said:


> the Card Crusher meme? yeah I thought of that too when I read it



I bet that hat inspired it


----------



## Kanali (Aug 19, 2012)

Someone needs to make a card crusher meme with the Hulk pulverizing Thing's face.


----------



## shit (Aug 19, 2012)

aaron already had someone do it with professional art

why make a shitty mspaint version?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 20, 2012)

shit said:


> in that outfit??
> 
> with that visor???



I just imagined Jarvis standing on the front porch of avengers mansion like a bouncer.

"Now...you know you ain't gettin in with that visor"


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 20, 2012)

I can just imagine Northstar kicking Scott out of the X-Men for his wardrobe choices


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 20, 2012)

He doesn't need to kick him out, just you know, pull him aside.

"Look, the first step is admitting you have a problem..."


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 20, 2012)

so. bendis/larocca on guardians of the galaxy and loeb/mcguinness on nova. hmm


----------



## creative (Aug 20, 2012)

that's the shit that kills me about Leob. his writing is fucking awful, meanwhile some of the best artist always tag along with him. Simone, Mcguinness, godamn Frank Cho.


----------



## Kanali (Aug 20, 2012)

I would have liked Gillen on Guardians. I'm interested in seeing what Bendis does with it, I'm not really much of a Bendis hater, I like some of what he's done althout I prefer him on street level books like Ultimate Spider-Man as opposed to something like Avengers. 

I've never really read anything by Loeb but I hear nothing but bad things. Luckily I don't care about this new Nova at all. I just hope he doesn't butcher Rider if he decides to bring him back for this series.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 20, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> so. bendis/larocca on guardians of the galaxy and loeb/mcguinness on nova. hmm


That's awesome.
I've always wanted to see Drax the destroyer talking to groot for three pages about space hot dogs
And Nova? I wonder who's dead father/son are we gonna learn about this time? 



a creative color said:


> that's the shit that kills me about Leob. his writing is fucking awful, meanwhile some of the best artist always tag along with him. Simone, Mcguinness, godamn Frank Cho.



It's seriously giving me mad pavlov reflexes


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 20, 2012)

i guess the good news is they gave loeb his own little corner to play in where he cant bring in guest stars and fuck them over. at worst, he'll troll the fuck out of OLPP by writing Thanos


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 20, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> i guess the good news is they gave loeb his own little corner to play in where he cant bring in guest stars and fuck them over. at worst, he'll troll the fuck out of OLPP by writing Thanos



So you don't think he'll be on the title once Marvel/Disney starts up the marketing for GoTG?

I will be very surprised if we don't get an U. Avengers/ GoTG / Nova crossover in the next year and some change.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 20, 2012)

dont crush my optimism


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 20, 2012)

You mean, Avengers, Assemble?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 20, 2012)

Fuck, Way's being put on X-Force


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 20, 2012)

:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|


----------



## shit (Aug 20, 2012)




----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Aug 20, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> so. bendis/larocca on guardians of the galaxy and loeb/mcguinness on nova. hmm


----------



## shit (Aug 20, 2012)

this thread is nothing but terrible news today

I say we lock this and tomorrow start off with a new thread


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 20, 2012)

I say we lock it and don't open again until wednesday


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 21, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> so. bendis/larocca on guardians of the galaxy and loeb/mcguinness on nova. hmm





Emperor Joker said:


> Fuck, Way's being put on X-Force



Well, that just made a crap day worse. 

I guess X-Force is gonna be dropped as well...


----------



## Parallax (Aug 21, 2012)

welp

at least imma save money now that I wont need to pick up X Force

yay?


----------



## Blitzomaru (Aug 21, 2012)

I say we lock it till A vs X is over by 3 months....


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 21, 2012)

X-Force got me into buying comics. I need to reevaluate what I will read from Marvel once the relaunch hits. I will only stick to five books.

Possibly chosen from:
Uncanny Avengers
Captain America
Avengers
Thor
Hulk
Young Avengers
Venom
Secret Avengers


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 21, 2012)

Kanali said:


> I would have liked Gillen on Guardians. I'm interested in seeing what Bendis does with it, I'm not really much of a Bendis hater, I like some of what he's done althout I prefer him on street level books like Ultimate Spider-Man as opposed to something like Avengers.
> 
> I've never really read anything by Loeb but I hear nothing but bad things. Luckily I don't care about this new Nova at all. I just hope he doesn't butcher Rider if he decides to bring him back for this series.



Everyone wants Gillen on everything. I just needed to get my daily quota of Gillen verbal-blowjobs out of the way

Also I could basically write GotG word for word for Bendis.



tari101190 said:


> X-Force got me into buying comics. I need to reevaluate what I will read from Marvel once the relaunch hits. I will only stick to five books.
> 
> Possibly chosen from:
> Uncanny Avengers
> ...



Iron-Man. Gillen is writing that. 



> i guess the good news is they gave loeb his own little corner to play in where he cant bring in guest stars and fuck them over. at worst, he'll troll the fuck out of OLPP by writing Thanos



Step on a lego


----------



## shit (Aug 21, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> X-Force got me into buying comics. I need to reevaluate what I will read from Marvel once the relaunch hits. I will only stick to five books.
> 
> Possibly chosen from:
> Uncanny Avengers
> ...



secret avengers is getting canned iirc
venom is written by bunn now, so why bother?

who's writing thor now? I think I heard fraction is leaving but I forget who's taking over


----------



## Kanali (Aug 21, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> Everyone wants Gillen on everything. I just needed to get my daily quota of Gillen verbal-blowjobs out of the way



Everyone wants Gillen on everything because Gillen is awesome. Its like complaining that everyone wants ice cream 



shit said:


> secret avengers is getting canned iirc
> venom is written by bunn now, so why bother?
> 
> who's writing thor now? I think I heard fraction is leaving but I forget who's taking over



Aaron is taking over Thor.


----------



## shit (Aug 21, 2012)

that should be interesting


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 21, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> Everyone wants Gillen on everything. I just needed to get my daily quota of Gillen verbal-blowjobs out of the way
> *
> Also I could basically write GotG word for word for Bendis.*



Please, please do. At least the first issue once the solicit comes out.



> Step on a lego



That is such an awesomely cruel fate to wish on someone.



shit said:


> *secret avengers is getting canned iirc*
> venom is written by bunn now, so why bother?
> 
> who's writing thor now? I think I heard fraction is leaving but I forget who's taking over



Thought I saw a rumor that Spencer was taking over that? Or was that Ant-Man? I'd be okay with either. Mainly marvel needs to make use of Spencer. Sure he's not going to be a gillen or a remender, but I think if they put him in his niche (espionage being one of them) he'll do some good work.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 21, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> Step on a lego



I did that all the time as a kid :/


----------



## creative (Aug 21, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Aaron is taking over Thor.




FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-


----------



## Kanali (Aug 21, 2012)

Two incomplete pages from All New X-Men.


----------



## Es (Aug 21, 2012)

This is actually gonna turn out better then I thought


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2012)

Es said:


> This is actually gonna turn out better then I thought



So they're going to remedy their image by putting a former terrorist, a former terrorist who wiped out a race and _wolverine_?

Ha. I guess they need it the most


----------



## Es (Aug 21, 2012)

I was more worried about the explanation for the Red Skull returning. It all makes sense now


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2012)

Not gonna lie though, I'm excited to see reed skull manipulating modern bigotries


----------



## creative (Aug 21, 2012)

John Case gave captain america a functional helmet. this is going to be fantastic. sucks that everything I loved in marvel is getting it's shit flipped for the worse.


----------



## shit (Aug 21, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> So they're going to remedy their image by putting a former terrorist, a former terrorist who wiped out a race and _wolverine_?
> 
> Ha. I guess they need it the most



wanda destroying the mutant race probably made her the most loved superhero among regular humans

or is it still a secret?


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2012)

Touch? shit, touch?


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 22, 2012)

Gillen once again achieves the fucking impossible


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 22, 2012)

You know it's bad enough that Wolverine founded and led the first X-Men team...but it's even worse when he's the mastermind behind the Weapon X program too

why the fuck did I even pick up Wolverine this week


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 22, 2012)

I already disliked this new wolverine before he temporarily changed is name to Bob reynolds


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Aug 22, 2012)

I have good enough impressions from Ribic's Loki mini that I'll be willing to track Aaron's Thor since I'm not expecting it to last too long regardless of intent.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 22, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> You know it's bad enough that Wolverine founded and led the first X-Men team...but it's even worse when he's the mastermind behind the Weapon X program too
> 
> why the fuck did I even pick up Wolverine this week



wait what how does that fucking work


----------



## Parallax (Aug 22, 2012)

It seems like whoever wrote that set out to piss on everything every Wolverine writer has written


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Aug 22, 2012)

Stop namedropping Bob, punters.


----------



## shit (Aug 22, 2012)

are you guys reading loeb shit?

I warned you about loeb shit bro

I told you dog


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 22, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> You know it's bad enough that Wolverine founded and led the first X-Men team...but it's even worse when he's the mastermind behind the Weapon X program too
> 
> why the fuck did I even pick up Wolverine this week





So Logan masterminded Romulus who masterminded Sublime who masterminded Sinister who masterminded the Canadian government all to turn Logan into a weapon?


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Aug 22, 2012)

Captain America White or bust.


----------



## Es (Aug 22, 2012)

shit said:


> are you guys reading loeb shit?
> 
> I warned you about loeb shit bro
> 
> I told you dog



Loeb is writing this? Shit man it's where he brings back Sabertooth isn't it


----------



## shit (Aug 22, 2012)

he also brings back romulus

but no one gives a shit about romulus enough to even mention him


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Aug 22, 2012)

shit said:


> he also brings back romulus
> 
> but no one gives a shit about romulus enough to even mention him



Wolverine: Romuluuuuuus!

Bianchi sure gets the short stick goshdarn.


----------



## Es (Aug 23, 2012)

shit said:


> he also brings back romulus
> 
> but no one gives a shit about romulus enough to even mention him


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 23, 2012)

romulus? The other loeb expy ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) no one gives a shit about?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 23, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> wait what how does that fucking work



Next time, on Wolverine:


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 23, 2012)

Someone being their own father is right up Loeb's alley though

YOU WERENT THERE FOR ME DADDY
I WAS YOU
DUN DUN DUN
EXPLOSION


----------



## E (Aug 23, 2012)

welp it's time to get this wolverine shit over and done with and read it despite it all cause my ocd wont let me stop reading something mid arc no matter how shitty it is


----------



## Es (Aug 23, 2012)

You poor man


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 23, 2012)

E said:


> welp it's time to get this wolverine shit over and done with and read it despite it all cause my ocd wont let me stop reading something mid arc no matter how shitty it is



poor soul.


----------



## E (Aug 23, 2012)

the deed is done and yes, i intend to read the next one 

i think i might just drop the series altogether after that


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 23, 2012)

please do

What if I spoil you the story. Will you then stop punishing yourself?


----------



## E (Aug 23, 2012)

even if you do i'll still do it just because i'll feel compelled to see it for myself


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 23, 2012)

We all have our crosses I guess


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 23, 2012)

weapon x was all wolverine's idea
So was weapon I- IX
True story
Wolverine made captain America


----------



## Blitzomaru (Aug 23, 2012)

WTF is that shit? Someone actually wrote this?


It was Loeb, wasn't it?


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 23, 2012)

It was.

For once I am happy


----------



## Michael Lucky (Aug 23, 2012)

Now I dunno if I wanna keep reading it


----------



## creative (Aug 23, 2012)

People still read wolverine? People presumably over the age of 21? The fuck?


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Aug 23, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> weapon x was all wolverine's idea
> So was weapon I- IX
> True story
> Wolverine made captain America



is it bad that I actually found it funny?


----------



## creative (Aug 23, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> weapon x was all wolverine's idea
> So was weapon I- IX
> True story
> Wolverine made captain America



Lol, X23 was a mistake.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Aug 23, 2012)

No suprise there


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 24, 2012)

a creative color said:


> People still read wolverine? People presumably over the age of 21? The fuck?



i might download it just to check out the trainwreck now


----------



## Blitzomaru (Aug 24, 2012)

What issues does this cover? Im gonna read them. Just cause I havent had something of Low-ebb's to piss me off. Watched all of Season 2 Avengers: EMH 2 months ago and Ultimate spider-man is the furthest thing from my mind.... And hell, at least Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum gave us the 4thletter versions of those comics...


----------



## Narutossss (Aug 24, 2012)

can anyone please tell me why loeb's ass is licked up so much at marvel... I mean are the editors at marvel just retarded?


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 24, 2012)

Because he sells.


----------



## Kanali (Aug 24, 2012)

Loeb is the devil and the Marvel editors made a deal with him for success. The price is that he gets to butcher a few of their characters now and then.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 24, 2012)

Oh Gillen.  I now want Psylocke to say "I'm a bloody ninja" whenever she does something cool.

EDIT: Gillen brought back the suitcase armor!


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 24, 2012)

It reminded me of Kelly in misfits shouting "I'M A FOOKIN' ROCKET SCIENTIST"


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 24, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> EDIT: Gillen brought back the suitcase armor!




If only it didn't look like crap! 

Seriously, black and gold tracing of IM2 armor vs:


No contest.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 24, 2012)

I thought Land was suposed to only be good at drawing tech


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 24, 2012)

At least this prooves once and for all what I've always said

Tony Stark is a steelers fan


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Aug 24, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I thought Land was suposed to only be good at drawing tech



You mistaking Larroca for Land.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 24, 2012)

Ah- So lots and lots of movie iron man tracing then


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Aug 24, 2012)

You'll have to approach Land's work with a lot of tolerance for tracing AND a taste for slickness.

I'd be willing to take the chance for the writing and the character.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Aug 24, 2012)

so was I the only one playing black and yellow remix on my head while I saw the new armor for the first time?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 24, 2012)

Looks like Brubaker's leaving Winter Soldier...i'm sad now


----------



## Es (Aug 24, 2012)

A manly tear is shed


----------



## shit (Aug 25, 2012)

that didn't last long


----------



## Parallax (Aug 25, 2012)

was anyone expecting it to


----------



## Kanali (Aug 25, 2012)

Who the fuck is Morbius and why is he getting an ongoing?


----------



## Es (Aug 25, 2012)

>Obviously hasn't watched 90's Spider Man


----------



## Kanali (Aug 25, 2012)

Es said:


> >Obviously hasn't watched 90's Spider Man



Now that you mention it I remember a pale bat guy from the opening credits.


----------



## Narutossss (Aug 25, 2012)

wow I've hardly been reading comics for a year and I know who Morbius is.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 26, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Now that you mention it I remember a pale bat guy from the opening credits.



Marvel constantly tries to pawn him off, what with the whole vampire craze.

They don't get it, sex sells vampires now, not angst.


----------



## creative (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh my god, black dynamite is amazing. dat Elvis Presley episode.


----------



## Id (Aug 26, 2012)

Warren needs to finish his Newuniveral project. Its fucked up, its not even a canceled title. Just a dead one because his computer died with all goodies.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 27, 2012)

Sooo, I guess Piotr might be the dead X-man in AvX?



Meyer Lansky said:


> Warren needs to finish his Newuniveral project. Its fucked up, its not even a canceled title. Just a dead one because his computer died with all goodies.


One upon a time I had hope Ellis would continue newuniversal. Now, though...  I think he's explicitly said that he's never going back to the project.


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 27, 2012)

Why would he die? He's already been defeated and isn't really important. Plus he has juggernaut powers. Why and how would he die?


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 27, 2012)

I'm just guessing since A) presumably somebody on the X-Men side dies, B) apparently its not Emma, C)besides Gillen nothing has really been done with Piotr and now Gillen is off the X-books.

Also:


tari101190 said:


> He's already been defeated and isn't really important.


Exactly. He really isn't important. Thats like a massive neon sign with a host of banshee screaming "DEATH TIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIME"

But eh, its just a guess.


----------



## Whimsy (Aug 27, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> Warren needs to finish his Newuniveral project. Its fucked up, its not even a canceled title. Just a dead one because his computer died with all goodies.



That's dead as a dodo - don't think he's interested in going back over the stuff that got lost anymore.


----------



## DeathScream (Aug 27, 2012)

i knew it that Emma frost is a goddamn bitch, to magneto ask for charles help, she must be fucking everything


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 27, 2012)

Not a very nuanced reader, aren't ya?


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 27, 2012)

Piotr already died and came back by the way. It's really a waste of a story line


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Piotr already died and came back by the way. It's really a waste of a story line



That and aside from 1 issue of WATXM and 1 issue of UXM, he hasn't really had any spotlight here aside from being the big guy in fights.

I don't see him dying in any way that doesn't reek of "well we had to kill _somebody_"


----------



## Id (Aug 27, 2012)

Whimsy said:


> That's dead as a dodo - don't think he's interested in going back over the stuff that got lost anymore.



He's an idiot. That series where selling, like a brand new line of Iphones.


----------



## Kanali (Aug 27, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Piotr already died and came back by the way. It's really a waste of a story line



This. Killing him is pretty pointless at this point, it adds nothing to the story. I'm still guessing that it'll be an Avenger that bites the dust since the funeral seems to be an Avengers affair.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 27, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Sooo, I guess Piotr might be the dead X-man in AvX?



it's probably Hope


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2012)

Umm, who's that normal guy on the far right?

I did not notice him at all the first time I saw this cover haha.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 27, 2012)

I like frost's black eye brows and how they over impose her hair

This event is so fucking stupid

YOU'RE TAKING YOUR GRANDDAUGHTER BACK BY FORCE? HOW DARE YOU ENACT ON US THAT WHICH WE DID ON YOU ON THE VERY FIRST ISSUE OF THIS EVENT
AND ATTACKING HER, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE THE ONE'S PUTTING HER IN HARM'S WAY? YOU'VE LOST YOUR WAY SCOTT SUMMERS, UNLIKE THAT NOBLE ASSOCIATE OF OURS

SHAME ON ALL THE MUTANTS. SHAME


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Aug 27, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I like frost's black eye brows and how they over impose her hair
> 
> This event is so fucking stupid
> 
> ...



by shooting her with eye beams, you go cyclops


----------



## Kanali (Aug 27, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> by shooting her with eye beams, you go cyclops



Show me the panel when this happened. The only time the eye beams came out were to bat away the puny Avengers that kept throwing themselves at him like drunken strippers on a rockstar. If he wanted to kill or hurt any of the Avengers, they'd all be dead already. 

I've gotten sick of Hope during this event, I don't mind if she dies.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Aug 27, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Show me the panel when this happened. The only time the eye beams came out were to bat away the puny Avengers that kept throwing themselves at him like drunken strippers on a rockstar. If he wanted to kill or hurt any of the Avengers, they'd all be dead already.
> 
> I've gotten sick of Hope during this event, I don't mind if she dies.



in like the first page of issue ten, never mind the fact that hope wanted to be with the avengers, and lets not even get into the mess that it is his family tree we had a trope name summer's tangled family tree for a reason, and his relation hope, hint: not her actual grandfather.


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## Banhammer (Aug 27, 2012)

Raised as a daughter by his son
Ergo
Grandfather
Also, the "eye beams" comment is as lulzy as it is silly


----------



## Kanali (Aug 27, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> in like the first page of issue ten, never mind the fact that hope wanted to be with the avengers, and lets not even get into the mess that it is his family tree we had a trope name summer's tangled family tree for a reason, and his relation hope, hint: not her actual grandfather.



He's firing it at Iron Fist, notice how he never tries to shoot her after that despite various chances and provocation. 

By that logic Cable isn't her father. They're her adopted family, Cable and Cyclops are the only family she's ever known besides meeting her grandmother once.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Aug 27, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Raised as a daughter by his son
> Ergo
> Grandfather



does that mean if a kidnapper raises a kid as his own it would make his family related to the kid in question? you can see how that argument will never fly in any court anywhere (you free to prove me wrong however), at the very least they could've told her actual grandmother (you know that nice old lady in Alaska) and that's not really a point considering we have a even bigger elephant in the room:

Hope, an 18 years old U.S. citizen has decided to not live with cyclops anymore, even if we let the first argument fly for the sake the sake of it, how do you justify cyclops going and forcing her to come back, if had any concern about hope well being with the avengers, he could've taken it to the proper authorities in the U.S. (never mind the fact that she said she wanted to go with wanda and by proxy the avengers), but what am I saying cyclops is the authority in the U.S. and the rest of the world, and that's the problem with the phoenix five and anyone trying to remake the world at their image and taking the charge from whom it should lay with, the people.



Kanali said:


> He's firing it at Iron Fist, notice how he never tries to shoot her after that despite various chances and provocation.
> 
> By that logic Cable isn't her father. They're her adopted family, Cable and Cyclops are the only family she's ever known besides meeting her grandmother once.


 who was right next to hope and therefore endangering her, and anyways her grandmother, and this is the key point here, had the right, as well as hope, to live with her, and they were never even given the chances, to cable just came and took her away, no questions asked . 


I hereby rest my case.



> Also, the "eye beams" comment is as lulzy as it is silly


am glad you found that way, it was that one or "Behold, Optic blast"


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## Kanali (Aug 27, 2012)

What the fuck are the US authority going to do against the Avengers? They can barely get it together to get kids out of nasty situations as it is, they won't stand a chance against the Avengers. And like you yourself stated, Cyclops is the supreme authority and the only one with the power to take her back from the Avengers. 

At this point he's simply doing it so that the Avengers won't turn her into a weapon though. The Phoenix Force kind of makes him lose touch with personal relationships so he's not doing it for love or anything at this point. 

The thing is that when the power was in the hands of the people, the world was shit. The Phoenix Five had the power and the knowhow to turn the world into a paradise, if only it weren't for those pesky Avengers. And from what we've seen, the Phoenixes are universally beloved by the people of Earth with the exception of militias and generally evil people that are mad because the Phoenixes took away their toys.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2012)

It is kind of funny how the avengers are playing the "she doesn't want to go with you!" card when just recently Cap (with a helicarrier full of avengers at his back) demanded Hope come with them.

Didn't he literally say "I wasn't asking."?


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Aug 27, 2012)

Kanali said:


> What the fuck are the US authority going to do against the Avengers? They can barely get it together to get kids out of nasty situations as it is, they won't stand a chance against the Avengers. And like you yourself stated, Cyclops is the supreme authority and the only one with the power to take her back from the Avengers.
> .


not what it would do, but what it would show, that cyclops still holds himself accountable to some sort of law/or legal customs and that's the main problem and that is one of the many problems the avengers have with the phoenix five, who judges them?, who holds them accountable? apparently they themselves, and we see how that is turning out. 


> At this point he's simply doing it so that the Avengers won't turn her into a weapon though. The Phoenix Force kind of makes him lose touch with personal relationships so he's not doing it for love or anything at this point.


actually if you read the infinity version, we see that iron man (nor any other avengers present in that room), doesn't account her at all in his battle plans against cyclops.


> *The thing is that when the power was in the hands of the people, the world was shit.* The Phoenix Five had the power and the knowhow to turn the world into a paradise, if only it weren't for those pesky Avengers. And from what we've seen, the Phoenixes are universally beloved by the people of Earth with the exception of militias and generally evil people that are mad because the Phoenixes took away their toys


eh what give them the right to do this, where is this know-how-to? have any one of them ever lead a civilization? what would they do when are challenged? murder hundreds of innocent civilians like namor did? thrown them into hell like colossus and magik did? or force them to, ah, "correct" their thoughts like emma did? or force them to love them like cyclops prefers to do? honestly the worse is worse off with the P5


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## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2012)

I don't get the accountability argument.

For funsies, what do you think would happen if Scarlet Witch was powered by some other means (not x gene) and reduced the human population by that same percentage and made it impossible for humans to have children?

And in general, the avengers are only accountable when it's convenient for them. 

Really, I think it's silly to use accountability seriously in a story, since it's a trope of the genre that they generally aren't accountable for anything unless the story demands it.


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## Banhammer (Aug 27, 2012)

There's a lot of stupid arguments for something that has been discussed months ago
The only thing left to do now is enjoy the irony of Cap's weakness of both power and morals


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## Banhammer (Aug 27, 2012)

The accountability argument is stupid as fuck
"Who are they to fix the world?"

What, no more "with great power comes great responsibility" schtick? Who is spider-man to stop bank robbers? Who is Steve Rogers to pronounce himself Captain America?
How come none of them knock on Asgard or the Baxter Building's door and demand "Accountability"
Oh that's right, Tony did once, and we remember how that turned out


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## Kanali (Aug 27, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> not what it would do, but what it would show, that cyclops still holds himself accountable to some sort of law/or legal customs and that's the main problem and that is one of the many problems the avengers have with the phoenix five, who judges them?, who holds them accountable? apparently they themselves, and we see how that is turning out.



The law would still be powerless to stop the Avengers and they've already shown that they don't care what anyone else says anyways. I agree that the Phoenixes system of rulership isn't perfect but its a hell of a lot better than what they replaced which is why everyone is content and the Avengers are being considered terrorists. 



Blackfeather Dragon said:


> actually if you read the infinity version, we see that iron man (nor any other avengers present in that room), doesn't account her at all in his battle plans against cyclops.



Until he notices her and remembers that the perfect host of the Phoenix Force and one of the most powerful mutants on the planet might be useful in a fight. Cyclops was right to assume that they'd weaponize her, just because Tony was too stupid to think of it until the last minute doesn't mean much from Cyclops' point of view. 



Blackfeather Dragon said:


> eh what give them the right to do this, where is this know-how-to? have any one of them ever lead a civilization? what would they do when are challenged? murder hundreds of innocent civilians like namor did? thrown them into hell like colossus and magik did? or force them to, ah, "correct" their thoughts like emma did? or force them to love them like cyclops prefers to do? honestly the worse is worse off with the P5



Namor and Cyclops are both very experienced leaders. Namor has and continues to lead a world power/civilization and he's done a pretty good job of it historically, defending them against surface agression etc. The same can be said of Scott. He's not quite as competent as Namor but without him mutants would probably have gone extinct by now or at the very least be a lot fewer. As for what gives them the right, I'd say their might and competence. What gives regular world leaders the right? In many cases throughout the world there are no elections and its basically might makes right. I'll bet that most citizens of the Marvel U Earth would vote for the Phoenixes in an election. 

As for the Phoenixes loss of control, thats all on the Avengers, as much as I would like it not to be. In their fear of the Phoenixes losing control, they've become the ones that cause them to lose control. First by infuriating them when they had still done absolutely no wrong and then by destroying the delicate balance of control by defeating Namor and giving the other Phoenixes too much power to control. THe X-Men have never been the agressors during this entire event, its always been the Avengers. The Phoenixes were making the best of a bad situation created by the Avengers but the Avengers just couldn't leave well enough alone and had to keep poking the dragon. 

And Namor didn't kill thousands. Hell, there's no showing that he killed anyone. Notice how the massive tidal wave was carefully controlled to the level that it barely soaked any of the Avengers that were standing right on ground zero when it hit. Namor could summon tsunami's without the Phoenix, if he wanted to kill people he'd have wiped Wakanda off the map.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Aug 27, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Who the fuck is Morbius and why is he getting an ongoing?



Lots of kids saw him palm plasma suck people in a Spider-Man cartoon.



tari101190 said:


> Why would he die? He's already been defeated and isn't really important. Plus he has juggernaut powers. Why and how would he die?



His powers don't matter. The X-franchise is incestuous, they COULD kill him again.


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## Banhammer (Aug 27, 2012)

There's actually not even any real argument against Namor.
He lost his shit in a completly overblown manner but
1st) Wakanda declared war. Wakanda knew what it was up against, and the implications of their actions and they did it anyway. Namor was in his right to riposte, and thus he did.  The death of the wakandans is on none but the Black Panther's head.
2nd) Namor was high on Phoenix. And who put it in his imperfect host's brain in the first place? Without anything resembling his constent? That is right the avengers. It's his fault about as much as it was if I shot up a hobo full of crack straight in the heart and then dumped in a vat full of screeching babies and strobing lights

People also like to hark on Emma. Emma is a well intended professor who feels desperately protective of mutant children because of the murderous persecution they face
Because of the power, put inside of her against her will by the avengers, and growing stronger and stronger and further out of control because of the avenger's actions, she is begining to veer off into totalitarian madness.
Once again, who's to blame?
Does she need to be stopped? Sure, _now_ she does. The same way a runaway ambulance needs to be stopped after a bunch of rednecks have cut it's breaks and pushed it downhill into an orphanage


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## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2012)

I just don't think accountability should be made a central theme of an event that affects dozens of characters.

In the real world of "accountability", most superheroes would be sued for property damage, and then considered criminals when they fail to appear in court / give up their identities. I'm okay with this not happening, because it would make for terrible stories.

Or the Hulk, screw the "hulk does the math!" BS, there is no way that guy hasn't killed people through collateral damage. On the other hand, Hulk being an avenger is cool, so I don't care about that. Same with Magneto, it's interesting , so I don't care.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 27, 2012)

Or Civil Wars
I wonder what cap would think about a Civil War fought over accountability of power


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## Es (Aug 27, 2012)

> Or the Hulk, screw the "hulk does the math!" BS, there is no way that guy hasn't killed people through collateral damage. On the other hand, Hulk being an avenger is cool, so I don't care about that.


It's not far fetched at all with me primarily because Banner has been shown to influence the Hulk to a certain degree in previous works, and the fact that he's one of the greatest minds on earth and all that jazz


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## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2012)

Es said:


> It's not far fetched at all with me primarily because Banner has been shown to influence the Hulk to a certain degree in previous works, and the fact that he's one of the greatest minds on earth and all that jazz



I'm sorry but there is just no way for me to believe that hulk hasn't killed ANYBODY in all his rampages. 

Putting that aside, there's the property damage aspect. The Hulk should never be allowed to be a good guy because he needs to be held accountable for his actions. Unless we're to believe that Tony covered billions of dollars in property damage?

My point is that it's a stupid thing to focus on unless it benefits the story being told, and when you're using it as a cornerstone in a heroes vs. heroes conflict there's no way it isn't a little bit hypocritical due to how often the rules are bent.

I mean you can even go back to dark reign. Several currently acting avengers blatantly disobeyed the law and fought against the government, but everything was good after siege because Captain America said so. I have no issue with this, because "Yeah you saved us, but you still disobeyed the law just because you didn't agree with it" would suck story wise.

Or how bout Cap's speech to Spider-man in civil war? It was basically, "stand by what you think is right no matter what" and he specifically mentioned the government in that sentence. And now Cap and co are mad at the P5 because they're ignoring world governments based on what they believe is right?


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Aug 27, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I'm sorry but there is just no way for me to believe that hulk hasn't killed ANYBODY in all his rampages.



I never liked that concept either.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 27, 2012)

Not World Goverment by the way.
Just the american.
The world goverment was happy to take all that free energy and turn deserts into craddles of flourishing life, ending of draughts and sustaining agricultural fields.
Not so much when bloody murder of the masses in the name of political profit was ended. Not so much then..

So you know

Oh the Wakandan. Lulz


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## Kanali (Aug 27, 2012)

I thought the pinnacle of "Hulk never kills" stupidity was during WWH. He's supposed to be pissed off beyond limits. As far as he knows, humans destroyed his capital city, murdered millons and kill his wife and unborn child. 

So he invades Manhattan with a giant alien army, practically destroys it, defeats three of the most powerful beings on Earth and makes every other hero look like a bitch. Yet he still doesn't kill anyone? He just packs his bags and leaves because "they learned a lesson" from him kicking their asses?


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 27, 2012)

Red shirts don't count


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 27, 2012)

Invincible Iron Man is ending and you guys are still going on about AvX?


----------



## shit (Aug 27, 2012)

it's in gillen's hands

we should be celebrating the new beginning


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 27, 2012)

Ah can't

My journey into mystery


----------



## shit (Aug 27, 2012)

they've got to give him more than one title

maybe once bunn proves himself the colossal hack that he is, there will be room for lots of gillen again


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Aug 27, 2012)

Kanali said:


> I thought the pinnacle of "Hulk never kills" stupidity was during WWH. He's supposed to be pissed off beyond limits. As far as he knows, humans destroyed his capital city, murdered millons and kill his wife and unborn child.
> 
> So he invades Manhattan with a giant alien army, practically destroys it, defeats three of the most powerful beings on Earth and makes every other hero look like a bitch. Yet he still doesn't kill anyone? He just packs his bags and leaves because "they learned a lesson" from him kicking their asses?



He takes the fight to the figureheads, Sentry is conventionally unkillable, and there otherwise was an evacuation going.*

*If I'm forgetting storyline details, it's not robbing me of any sleep.


----------



## Es (Aug 27, 2012)

The Bite of the She-Wolf said:


> He takes the fight to the figureheads, Sentry is conventionally unkillable, and there otherwise was an evacuation going.*
> 
> *If I'm forgetting storyline details, it's not robbing me of any sleep.



There was already an evacuation before he arrived. Some people stayed behind though


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2012)

shit said:


> it's in gillen's hands
> 
> we should be celebrating the new beginning



I hate that Land is on this book. It's like getting a delicious fudge sundae, but then someone pours a half a teaspoon of piss into the edge of that sundae. Sure, the good far outweighs the bad, and technically I could eat around it, but fuck, there's still piss in my sundae.


----------



## shit (Aug 27, 2012)

it'll probably be like UXM

gillen will go way too fast for "why can't I hold all these traces" Land and they'll bring on really fucking awesome artists to compensate


----------



## creative (Aug 27, 2012)

LIL_M0 said:


> Invincible Iron Man is ending and you guys are still going on about AvX?



Fraction has been moving that book at a snail's pace. Ultimate spider man looks moves quicker than that shit.

My more concerned with Jeff Parker's direction with red she-hulk. Because fuck red she-hulk, I wanted to see red hulk fight the eternals and struggle with his mortality and get shitted on by machine man and punch uatu again.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2012)

shit said:


> it'll probably be like UXM
> 
> gillen will go way too fast for "why can't I hold all these traces" Land and they'll bring on really fucking awesome artists to compensate



Here's hoping. I'd certainly be okay with Gillen / Pacheco.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 27, 2012)

a creative color said:


> Fraction has been moving that book at a snail's pace. Ultimate spider man looks moves quicker than that shit.
> 
> My more concerned with Jeff Parker's direction with red she-hulk. Because fuck red she-hulk, *I wanted to see red hulk fight the eternals* and struggle with his mortality and get shitted on by machine man and punch uatu again.




This. I hate Betty with a fiery passion and the mere fact that she's getting the hulk book when Rulk still has storylines worth telling annoys me


----------



## shit (Aug 27, 2012)

rulk's been getting a bit stale lately tbh

if his book concludes interestingly and has a satisfactory transition to focusing on shrulk then I'll have no problem

parker can make anything work after all


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 27, 2012)

shit said:


> it'll probably be like UXM
> 
> gillen will go way too fast for "why can't I hold all these traces" Land and they'll bring on really fucking awesome artists to compensate



Oh my God, sinister London, that was the sex.


----------



## shit (Aug 27, 2012)

pretty sure gillen intentionally picked the most extravagant settings he could think of just to get land to throw his hands up and pass the buck to actually qualified artists


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## Banhammer (Aug 27, 2012)

pretty hard to trace an issue with thousands of diffrent people with the exact same face


----------



## creative (Aug 27, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> pretty hard to trace an issue with thousands of diffrent people with the exact same face




Land is a man of many insulting blunders. Ultimate fantastic four and ultimate power come to mind.


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## Banhammer (Aug 28, 2012)

Kind of hard to trace krakoa castle


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 29, 2012)




----------



## Banhammer (Aug 29, 2012)

journey into mystery is the only book worth talking about in the history of ever


----------



## creative (Aug 29, 2012)

in order to love anything you must suffer.

I have to stop reading with different voices


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 29, 2012)

Meh, anything but "meesa" kills it.

Nothing compares to Farnsworth "Good news everyone!" or anything attached to a picture of morgan freeman politely smiling.


----------



## creative (Aug 29, 2012)




----------



## Kanali (Aug 29, 2012)

Loved this weeks Uncanny X-Force. Daken and Sabretooth make a surprisingly kickass team.


----------



## vicious1 (Aug 29, 2012)

I'm really looking forward to the upcoming x force issues. Hope Genesis sticks around for a few years. 

I feel like half of Marvel's new books are going to be ruined. Either the artist sucks too much for the writer or a terrible writer is getting a cool corner of the universe.


----------



## shit (Aug 29, 2012)

funny you should mention that

way taking over x-force is the thing I'm least looking forward to in all of Marvel Now


----------



## vicious1 (Aug 29, 2012)

shit said:


> funny you should mention that
> 
> way taking over x-force is the thing I'm least looking forward to in all of Marvel Now



I missed that assignment. Now I'm more sad.


----------



## creative (Aug 29, 2012)

how come marvel villains only get mini's and not full on ongoings. it's the year 2012 and fucking gambit has a solo ongong. can a brotha get some taskmaster? some doom? plz?


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 30, 2012)

Only if they make a follow up to that taskmaster mini a few years ago. Otherwise why bother? It can't be topped.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2012)

That taskmaster mini was glorious.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 30, 2012)

The one with all the hitlers?


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## shit (Aug 30, 2012)

yep

although they did introduce a whole new gov't agency, so they probably don't wanna admit that can of worms has been opened


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 30, 2012)

They can just say SHIELD gobbled them up or something


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2012)

So anybody read winter soldier?

Awesome cliffhanger, really really depressing that Bru is leaving. Really wish I knew what went on behind the scenes with that.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Aug 30, 2012)

Jeez 4chan truly takes over absolutely everything.


----------



## creative (Aug 30, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So anybody read winter soldier?
> 
> Awesome cliffhanger, really really depressing that Bru is leaving. Really wish I knew what went on behind the scenes with that.



has it been confirmed who's taking over winter soldier? it's not gonna be Bunn right? I've been meaning to read it now that red is finished and I'm done with captain america reborn.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 5, 2012)

Please don't be Thunderbolts...please don't be Thunderbolts. I don't want Way shitting up another of my favorite books...it's bad enough he's going to be on X-Force


----------



## shit (Sep 5, 2012)

hahaha

and here I was two months ago hopeful that marvel was getting ready to drum him out of comics completely



I blame myself for not dropping deadpool years ago


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 5, 2012)

I left deadpool just in the right time

Which is to say few months after cable did


----------



## shit (Sep 5, 2012)

you're a savvier man that I


----------



## Bergelmir (Sep 5, 2012)

So the new Thor... dear god. Just... GILLEN!!!


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Sep 6, 2012)

Some interesting notes



> Marvel had several announcements, including the one I'm most excited about: a new ongoing Morbius The Living Vampire series from Joe Keatinge and Rich Elson, *the team that was meant to launch a Thanos mini-series before that got nixed for unknown reasons*. Created by Roy Thomas and Gil Kane, Dr. Michael Morbius is a living human with scientifically-created vampire abilities. He's recently appeared as a supporting character in Dan Slott's Amazing Spider-Man, and the ongoing series will launch out of events in that title.
> 
> Read More: Factory of faith



I'm also curious about this. Good because the last people to write Thanos (DnA) are deplorably horrific however Thanos is awesome and needed.

Really loving the following covers

*Spoiler*: __ 











Truth be told, no matter what happens Flash as Venom will always be weird to me. Because unlike you newfags, I've been following Spider-Man all my life. It's something like Commissioner Gordon gaining super powers

Also already hating what Fraction is doing to FF. HICKMAN, WHY ARE YOU LEAVING ONE OF THE BEST MARVEL BOOKS?!?!?!


----------



## Kanali (Sep 6, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Please don't be Thunderbolts...please don't be Thunderbolts. I don't want Way shitting up another of my favorite books...it's bad enough he's going to be on X-Force



Creating a new Thunderbolts book when Dark Avengers is around is extremely superflous, especially when some of the Bolts are apparently becoming Dark Avengers, so I don't think this is Thunderbolts.


----------



## Bergelmir (Sep 6, 2012)

It could just be a relaunched Dark Avengers, or Dark Avengers relaunched and renamed to Thunderbolts again. Not all of the one word Marvel Now teasers have referred to the title of the book.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 6, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Please don't be Thunderbolts...please don't be Thunderbolts. I don't want Way shitting up another of my favorite books...it's bad enough he's going to be on* X-Force*


wait...so are you saying remender is leaving x-force?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 6, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> wait...so are you saying remender is leaving x-force?



a couple sites reported last week that Remender was leaving and Way was taking over apparently


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 6, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> a couple sites reported last week that Remender was leaving and Way was taking over apparently



I hope it is not true because it would be seriously bad news, it kinda sours the interview I read about what gillen had planned for Iron Man, truly good stuff apparently.


----------



## creative (Sep 7, 2012)

oh man. I just cannot dig anything this marvel now is preparing for me at the moment. thank god the 1610 verse has picked it's shit together these past few months.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 7, 2012)

actually it's more likely that Remender is leaving Secret Avengers.  He's on that remember?

he's confirmed to leave SA at 37 and he's said on numerous occasions that he still has ideas for UXM


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 7, 2012)

Parallax said:


> actually it's more likely that Remender is leaving Secret Avengers.  He's on that remember?
> 
> he's confirmed to leave SA at 37 and he's said on numerous occasions that he still has ideas for UXM



I don't think that makes better for me , I really liked secret avengers, I hope we get someone good like we did in venom (although still too early to say, I like how it is shaping up), but hey as long as he still on X-force, Gillen delivers in IM, and as long as Aaron is in WatXM picks up his pace again and Bunn delivers my world is perfect


----------



## LIL_M0 (Sep 7, 2012)

Just read Shattered Heros/Battle Scars 6 in the bookstore. I think it's pretty lame how they're shoehorning Fury and the Son of Coul into the comics. <_<


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 9, 2012)

Spider-Man saying Alpha isn't worthy of Avengers made me giggle


----------



## Es (Sep 9, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Spider-Man saying Alpha isn't worthy of Avengers made me giggle



Who              ?


----------



## shit (Sep 9, 2012)

Parallax said:


> actually it's more likely that Remender is leaving Secret Avengers.  He's on that remember?
> 
> he's confirmed to leave SA at 37 and he's said on numerous occasions that he still has ideas for UXM



good

secret avengers is the red headed stepchild book of marvel now, so I have no problems with it hopping from one foster home to the next

uxf on the other hand was remender's dream baby, so it going to another writer, especially a fucking hack like way, is just detestable

I sincerely hope you're right


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 9, 2012)

Es said:


> Who              ?



Some teenager he accidentally gave super powers to in a lab accident


----------



## Es (Sep 9, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Some teenager he accidentally gave super powers to in a lab accident



It's be even better if it was Wolverine


----------



## Kanali (Sep 9, 2012)

Es said:


> It's be even better if it was Wolverine



Wolverine broke into the lab, knocked Spidey out, caused the lab accident and used his secret brainwashing powers to make everyone think Spidey did it. Wolverine is secretly behind everything that ever happened in the Marvel U.


----------



## Es (Sep 9, 2012)

Loeb logic


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 9, 2012)

The spider that gave peter his powers?

Wolverine under a magic spell


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 9, 2012)

The cosmic ray accident that gave the FF their powers?

Shot by wolverine when he was Gallactus's first herald


----------



## shit (Sep 9, 2012)

the terrorists that kidnapped stark and forced him to build his iron man armor?

put together by wolverine under the influence of weapon x that was originally founded by wolverine


----------



## shit (Sep 9, 2012)

wolverine didn't have anything to do with making captain america

but he was the one who originally came up with the concept of patriotism


----------



## Es (Sep 9, 2012)

This reminds me of Conspiracy by Abbet. But it all ends with Wolverine

Does this mean he was in control of the Control!?


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 9, 2012)

The dwarves that made Thor's hammer are secretly all Wolverine's cousins


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 9, 2012)

And the skrulls are actually all wolverine shapeshifters


----------



## Kanali (Sep 9, 2012)

Wolverine was the one that created Ultron, then he framed Pym. 

Wolverine was the one that beat Janet, then he framed Pym.

The Gamma Bomb that created the Hulk? It was Wolverine's idea.

Wolverine wasn't behind the Winter Soldier program. But he was the founder of the Soviet Union.

Wolverine was the one that gave Wanda the life force and caused House of M.

Wolverine was the one that created the Superhuman Registration Act.

Wolverine created the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. He only let Magneto run it out of pity.

Wolverine entrusted Apocalypse with the task of making sure mutantkind became the dominant species.

Wolverine is Hope's real father.

I think that about covers a few of Wolverine's accomplishments.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 9, 2012)

Not a lot of people know this, but the legacy virus was just a lot of tiny adamanitum claws


----------



## Kanali (Sep 9, 2012)

Wolverine was also the first host of the Phoenix but he had a falling out with it over a trivial matter and left it, creating the brand new Wolverine Force. He's still mad that the Phoenix which is why he tries to kill all of its hosts.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 9, 2012)

Es said:


> Who              ?



Not really keeping up with Slott's corner of the MU, are you?

There was even a Poochie joke in there.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Sep 9, 2012)

Wolverine faked the lunar landing...


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 10, 2012)

That horrible artist in Avenging Spider-Man needs to go away
He freaks me down the fuck out
It's like he goes out of his way to make everyone look like soulless rubber dolls with never blinking eyes


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 10, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> That horrible artist in Avenging Spider-Man needs to go away
> He freaks me down the fuck out
> It's like he goes out of his way to make everyone look like soulless rubber dolls with never blinking eyes


you talking bout the guy on issue 12? his stuff looks like it would take some time to get used too... issue 13 and 14 are by different artists tho.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 10, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> That horrible artist in Avenging Spider-Man needs to go away
> He freaks me down the fuck out
> It's like he goes out of his way to make everyone look like soulless rubber dolls with never blinking eyes



LOL you talking about Steve Dillon?


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 10, 2012)

Yes I am, fuck that guy


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 10, 2012)

I like Land better than I like him


I said it. There.

But then again land has gillen


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 10, 2012)

Dillon seems to be phoning it in nowadays and he's a better fit for gangsters, cowboys and hard cases in general.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 10, 2012)

Maybe

But it's all very horrible?

Did you see his hulk? Good god, kill me now


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 10, 2012)

so it is confirmed leaves X-force after this arc, and also he is leaving secret avengers, the good news is that there is going to be more apocalypse here and in uncanny avengers, and more apocalypse is always good


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 10, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Maybe
> 
> But it's all very horrible?
> 
> Did you see his hulk? Good god, kill me now



Back during his Preacher days, he knew how repetition could serve the story. It didn't hurt to be on board the Garth Ennis writing train.


----------



## shit (Sep 10, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> so it is confirmed leaves X-force after this arc, and also he is leaving secret avengers, the good news is that there is going to be more apocalypse here and in uncanny avengers, and more apocalypse is always good



terrible news


----------



## Es (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm so getting Uncanny Avengers though


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm waiting for the Omnibus etc. volumes.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 10, 2012)

shit said:


> terrible news



you think. 

well I'll be dropping x-force and depending who picks up secret then I may also drop it too, now I'm definitely going to be getting uncanny.


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 10, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Maybe
> 
> But it's all very horrible?
> 
> Did you see his hulk? Good god, kill me now



just googled some of his hulk work that's pretty bad... land is still worse. 
I remember when I first saw lands work and didn't know who he was and his reputation and I still hated the work.... I've always been an x-men fan and thought why not start reading the comics so of course I looked up uncanny x-men first.... unfortunately I ran into lands work first.... and since then I've never looked back... I don't care who gillen is, nobody is going to make me degrade myself to reading that bastards artwork looking at lands work almost makes me want to vomit, on top of having terrible work ethic... he's easily the most hated artist working in the comics...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 11, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> just googled some of his hulk work that's pretty bad... land is still worse.
> I remember when I first saw lands work and didn't know who he was and his reputation and I still hated the work.... I've always been an x-men fan and thought why not start reading the comics so of course I looked up uncanny x-men first.... unfortunately I ran into lands work first.... and since then I've never looked back... I don't care who gillen is, nobody is going to make me degrade myself to reading that bastards artwork looking at lands work almost makes me want to vomit, on top of having terrible work ethic... *he's easily the most hated artist working in the comics...*





Oh and Uncanny X men is awesome despite land, gillen is that good.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 11, 2012)

read the preview for AvsX this week

God I loathe everyone involved
OMGLPP can you ever forgive us?


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 11, 2012)

Yes Gillen, yes, smear your soul healing crap all over me.
Please


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 11, 2012)

*Spoiler*: _major spoilers of avx11_ 




*Spoiler*: _you sure you want to see this_ 



I use to be a phoenix host like you, then I took an arrow to the neck


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 11, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> *Spoiler*: _major spoilers of avx11_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm getting some Zero Hour Parallax vibes from this.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 11, 2012)

The Bite of the She-Wolf said:


> I'm getting some Zero Hour Parallax vibes from this.



I never read that event, was it this bad?


----------



## Es (Sep 11, 2012)

The fuck Magneto is dead now? Fuck you AVX


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 11, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> I never read that event, was it this bad?



Eh it was so-so to me but this was a good while ago.

I know some (many?) people hated it.

But I was mostly talking about the arrow development.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 11, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



 more spoilers]and yes I'm going to skip the fights in favor of the important stuff, so you've been warned


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 11, 2012)

The Bite of the She-Wolf said:


> Eh it was so-so to me but this was a good while ago.
> 
> I know some (many?) people hated it.
> 
> But I was mostly talking about the arrow development.



oh yeah, well when I saw it I couldn't resist to crack the joke


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 11, 2012)

is the issue out early or something?


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 11, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> is the issue out early or something?



nope a comic book store leaked the issue =/


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 11, 2012)

Es said:


> The fuck Magneto is dead now? Fuck you AVX




*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: _you sure you want this_ 




*Spoiler*: _you may not like the answer_ 




*Spoiler*: _this is your last chance_ 




*Spoiler*: __ 



nope............


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Sep 11, 2012)

Sooo... I've read all the relevant pages of AvX #11 on 4chan and I'm done. Done, done, done, DONE. Should've known that it was going to be bad because that asshole Bendis was writing it, but I wasn't expecting *that* bad. I'm not even going to bother with #12 especially with Jason "Character Assassin Extraordinaire" Aaron writing it. The Avengers cause every single bad thing that's happened in this fucking shitbag of an event and they're gonna be the ones that end up right in all of this just because they're the Avengers and not because they were actually right on this. About the only good thing I can say about this is that Copiel and Opena are amazing artists. 

I might bother with Consequences since Gillen's on it and maybe the new book with the former Extinction Team if it has a good line-up on it, but the X-Universe is dead to me now. Fuck you, Bendis. Fuck you, Aaron. Fuck you, Brevroot. You Avengers-loving hacks. 

I'ma go read some Invincible to cleanse my mind of this fail.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 11, 2012)

I'm actually looking forward to what Simon Williams has to say about all this.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 11, 2012)

His biggest fuck up his exploding on his face and captain america still finds the dongfuck extraordinaire to ARREST YOU FOR CRIMES AGAINST

For fuck's sake, just go away already bendis


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Sep 11, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> His biggest fuck up his exploding on his face and captain america still finds the dongfuck extraordinaire to ARREST YOU FOR CRIMES AGAINST
> 
> For fuck's sake, just go away already bendis


I'm trying to decide which was worse: That or "I don't."

Fucking Bendis....


----------



## Parallax (Sep 11, 2012)

lol Invincible


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 11, 2012)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> Fuck you, Aaron


but I like Aaron


----------



## Es (Sep 11, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> His biggest fuck up his exploding on his face and captain america still finds the dongfuck extraordinaire to ARREST YOU FOR CRIMES AGAINST
> 
> For fuck's sake, just go away already bendis



I liked the fucking Extinction team

Don't tell me the remaining New X men and generation Hope get folded in Wolverines book. I hate the art on it


Blackfeather Dragon said:


> but I like Aaron


i can't forgive him for this shitstain either but I blame Bendis for the most part because Bendis


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 11, 2012)

Can I get some full spoilers please? I wanna rage too


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Sep 11, 2012)

Check Blackfeather Dragon's posts on this page with the spoiler tags. It'll have all the relevant scans you need to see.


----------



## Es (Sep 11, 2012)

Really this event makes me want to punch a kitten


----------



## shit (Sep 11, 2012)

lol at you guys raging at change

literally nothing happened in those spoilers except build up to next issue


----------



## Es (Sep 11, 2012)

I already see where this is going already though. Fuck the Dark Phoenix stuff is retarded


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 11, 2012)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> Check Blackfeather Dragon's posts on this page with the spoiler tags. It'll have all the relevant scans you need to see.



Wow, just...wow. 

"You are under arrest for blah blah blah"

Fucking serious?


----------



## Blitzomaru (Sep 11, 2012)

How is all this the Avengers fault? They wanted to take Hope off planet in the off-chance she blew it up with the pheonix force. The X-men went all 'no pheonix force is good! All those times it almost killed us were flukes!' Cue heroes fighting heroes for no reason. If I was the hood (What ever happened to him) or some other organized bad guy club I'd be making a fortune right now.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 11, 2012)

Blitzomaru said:


> How is all this the Avengers fault? They wanted to take Hope off planet in the off-chance she blew it up with the pheonix force. The X-men went all 'no pheonix force is good! All those times it almost killed us were flukes!' Cue heroes fighting heroes for no reason. If I was the hood (What ever happened to him) or some other organized bad guy club I'd be making a fortune right now.



the Phoenix empowered x-men were perfectly in control of thier powerrs until Cap decided he was going to continue to poke and prod them. 

regardless of the early events of the comic, it is the avengers fault that the Phoenix Five/two are on a rampage now.

Hood's locked up now, after that incident where he jacked the Infinity Gauntlet.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 11, 2012)

Also, the phoenix five would not exist if not for the actions of the avengers.

But I'm sure the phoenix inhabiting its intended host would have been much much worse.


----------



## shit (Sep 11, 2012)

I like how scott is fighting everyone and cap still comes off as the asshat

certain writers should just not be allowed to touch certain characters


----------



## Es (Sep 11, 2012)

Why can't they do something more original and less overused for events? Like another War of the Supervillians? Or a just something that doesn't shit on characterizations so badly until all the heroes look like cunts


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 11, 2012)

shit said:


> I like how scott is fighting everyone and cap still comes off as the asshat
> 
> certain writers should just not be allowed to touch certain characters



This is the hilarious thing to me. You can tell the writers are doing everything they possibly can to make Cyke and co. seem like bad guys, and the Avengers seem like the good guys.

Yet no matter what Cyke and co. do, the avengers somehow do something that still makes them seem like the assholes.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Sep 11, 2012)

Blitzomaru said:


> How is all this the Avengers fault? They wanted to take Hope off planet in the off-chance she blew it up with the pheonix force. The X-men went all 'no pheonix force is good! All those times it almost killed us were flukes!' Cue heroes fighting heroes for no reason. If I was the hood (What ever happened to him) or some other organized bad guy club I'd be making a fortune right now.


The Avengers escalated everything from the beginning of this shithole of an event. None of this actually happens if Captain Dumbass actually thought things through and went to ask Cyclops what the Avengers could do to help.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 11, 2012)

I dunno why you're all raging over a throwaway line that really isn't that out of place from captain america.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 11, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I dunno why you're all raging over a throwaway line that really isn't that out of place from captain america.



It kind of bugs me that everyone seems to be treating scott summers like he's scott summers, as opposed to scott summers playing host to 25 - 100% of one of the most powerful forces in the universe. 

Cap isn't an idiot, and blatantly antagonizing the person who is incredibly powerful and incredibly unstable is pretty damn idiotic.


----------



## Bergelmir (Sep 11, 2012)

So apparently some insane shit went down in AvX 11. Is it true that Xavier is dead?


----------



## Blitzomaru (Sep 12, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> the Phoenix empowered x-men were perfectly in control of thier powerrs until Cap decided he was going to continue to poke and prod them.
> 
> regardless of the early events of the comic, it is the avengers fault that the Phoenix Five/two are on a rampage now.
> 
> Hood's locked up now, after that incident where he jacked the Infinity Gauntlet.



Yeah and didn't they go and remake the world in their own mutant image? I don't read tie-in books so if im wrong please correct me. So they imposed their will on an entire planet, where their race is the clear minority. So they are like Nazis, just with no gas chambers.

And They wanted to take hope off planet. Cyclops played the brutalized race card. The Avengers were perfectly reasonable to come there and say. 'yeah the Phoenix is here. Most likely for Hope. And we don't want her to be on planet cause that things track record is spotty at best.' His response is 'this is a mutant problem' Yeah, you and the 199 other mutants on the planet don't come before teh 8 billion other people. And since all they were gonna do was take her to space, he coulda went with her and monitored the whole thing. And if she had control, he could have brought her back.

Scott threw the first punch, err eye blast. So all this is his fault. He says they came there looking for a fight, but if the biggest threat to the planet just popped up, you'd be prepared for it too.


----------



## sanx021 (Sep 12, 2012)

How many times has the Phoenix been to earth and not once has it tried to destroy it things go wrong when people piss off the hosts which is what happened with cyke. funny thing now is the Avengers are now using Cyke's plan of training Hope to become the host of the phoenix so no matter what happens he was right


----------



## Kanali (Sep 12, 2012)

Blitzomaru said:


> How is all this the Avengers fault? They wanted to take Hope off planet in the off-chance she blew it up with the pheonix force. The X-men went all 'no pheonix force is good! All those times it almost killed us were flukes!' Cue heroes fighting heroes for no reason. If I was the hood (What ever happened to him) or some other organized bad guy club I'd be making a fortune right now.



1. What good would taking the Hope off world do? The Phoenix can traverse the Universe like nothing, and its not just coming to Earth for Hope. It'd pick up Hope and go straight back to Earth. Only now, Hope is alone on a deserted planet with no one she knows and no one who loves her with the most powerful force in the Universe in her head. Great idea Steve.

2. The Phoenix has come to Earth a shitload of times and claimed a ton of hosts with no problems. Yet now the Avengers need to get involved? 

3. Tony Stark should be kicked out from the list of top 10 smartest people. Reed needs to do an intricate ceremony where he takes away Tony's smart guy badge and kicks him down a muddy hill. Seriously Tony? The Phoenix Force is an OMNIVERSAL FORCE OF NATURE. It is ESSENTIAL for the existence of the Universe. And you thought it was a good idea to try and destroy it? With a big canon? I can't even wrap my head around this.

4. So the Iron Dumbass and the Goonsquad divide the Phoenix in five and it chooses five imperfect hosts, who actually manage to remain in full control and use their powers to improve the world. So whats the next step? Obviously we need to keep attacking them until they lose control, cause its totally going to happen eventually right? I mean its not like anyone actually controlled the Phoenix? Right?

5. And now its suddenly a great idea to make Hope the Phoenix and the Avengers are suddenly the saints that want to give Hope back her rightful powers. Not to mention the fact that the only reason the Phoenix is HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE is because of the Avengers piss poor management of the Wanda situation.

  Are you fucking kidding me? That is the most blatantly horrible writing I have EVER read in a comic. We're supposed to be cheering for these guys? These are the heroes of the story? If Secret Invasion was enough to get Tony fired from his job as top cop and get him declared as an international criminal, AvX should be enough to get Cap and Tony executed for extreme foolishness. 

But no, the Avengers are Marvel's golden babies because of the movie and now the X-Men need to go sit into the cellar and let the Avengers sodomize them like a good little franchise. This makes the characterizations in Civil War look spot on. This makes the heroes during WWH look like absolute saints. This makes Ultimatum look like a descent event. 

I could go on for days but I'm just going to stop before I have a massive heart attack from outrage.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 12, 2012)

> Yeah and didn't they go and remake the world in their own mutant image?


That's just projecting shit


----------



## sanx021 (Sep 12, 2012)

The funny thing about this event is they tried to make the Avengers more popular and all Marvel has done is make more people like Cyclops. Xavier had this coming next to go should be Cap


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 12, 2012)

Hope getting her powers?
YOU MAD ZEALOTS
Hope getting her powers from the X-Men?
WE MUST BELIEVE IN HOPE!


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 12, 2012)

sanx021 said:


> The funny thing about this event is they tried to make the Avengers more popular and *all Marvel has done is make more people like Cyclops*. Xavier had this coming next to go should be Cap




no.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 12, 2012)

Narutosss disapproves, thus making his point


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 12, 2012)

fuck cyclops... hope captain america "*arrests*" him bendis..


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 12, 2012)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> The Avengers escalated everything from the beginning of this shithole of an event. None of this actually happens if Captain Dumbass actually thought things through and went to ask Cyclops what the Avengers could do to help.


no, I still believe that if cyclops hadn't use his optic blast on cap, at the very least he would have a better leg to stand, and most likely things wouldn't have escalated the way they did, I mean up until the point of the attack it was all just angry chatter, things escalated from there, too.


----------



## shit (Sep 12, 2012)

I gained respect for cyclops when he used the phoenix power for the betterment of the world

everything else has just made me lose respect for both him and cap


----------



## Es (Sep 12, 2012)

Also why the fuck does Bendis keep writing the Hulk like he's still the Savage incarnation? It pisses me off to no end and it just shows to me he doesn't read the books.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 12, 2012)

Es said:


> Also why the fuck does Bendis keep writing the Hulk like he's still the Savage incarnation? It pisses me off to no end and it just shows to me he doesn't read the books.



I thought that was common knowledge


----------



## Es (Sep 12, 2012)

AVX 11 has reminded me


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 12, 2012)

Es said:


> AVX 11 has reminded me


didn't he admit not have read AvX 8 before writing 9, and causing the disappearance from the plot of laurie (you know the girl namor was suppose to rescue) and pretty much putting the nail in the coffin of namor's character for years to come?


----------



## Es (Sep 12, 2012)

Is he a fucking idiot? How do you not read the previous comic issues in your event? How do you fuck this up!!!


----------



## Parallax (Sep 12, 2012)

If I cared about The Hulk I guess I would be outraged too


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 12, 2012)

so I bought x-factor and a few other comics, in my lunch break, the reading was a fast one, I end up screaming "what the fuck" in my office because the goddamn twenty something pages ran out so quick for me.

it is so good you'll regret not having a time machine.

oh and the kilgore kid staring at cyclops while drinking juice, he has balls, I'll give him that (now if you could be just a tad bit older)


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 12, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> no, I still believe that if cyclops hadn't use his optic blast on cap, at the very least he would have a better leg to stand, and most likely things wouldn't have escalated the way they did, I mean up until the point of the attack it was all just angry chatter, things escalated from there, too.



Arguably the second most powerful telepath on the planet told him that Cap would not budge from his current position, and that he would not leave without Hope.

When one party is unwilling to compromise, what's the point in trying?

Also, LOL BENDIS:



			
				Newsarama interview with Bendis said:
			
		

> "There will be an argument that says, 'Well, he was under the influence of a terrible, terrible force that he could not control,'" Bendis said. *"But he did put himself under the influence."*



Also, anybody read Uncanny X men? Once again, Gillen gets handed crap and turns it to gold.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 12, 2012)

Gillen is also the reason Remender is leaving UXF

fuck that fool


----------



## Es (Sep 12, 2012)

> "There will be an argument that says, 'Well, he was under the influence of a terrible, terrible force that he could not control,'" Bendis said. "But he did put himself under the influence."


Autism incarnate 


Parallax said:


> Gillen is also the reason Remender is leaving UXF
> 
> fuck that fool



Blasphemer


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 12, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Arguably the second most powerful telepath on the planet told him that Cap would not budge from his current position, and that he would not leave without Hope.
> 
> When one party is unwilling to compromise, what's the point in trying?


I just feel like if scott was like ok but I want my team with her 24/7 cap would be hard pressed to escalate things without having a massive back draft from the avengers and looking like a straight up undeniable villain, as oppose to: stupid, misguided, trying to do best to protect earth or whatever floats your boat, it would've made make easier for people like me for example to align with cyclops, instead we got "it's mutant problem" which is not, and "behold optic blast"



> Also, anybody read Uncanny X men? Once again, Gillen gets handed crap and turns it to gold


I have it in my lap, but I'll probably leave until I get home so I can something to read there, that being said, I don't mind if your spoil my heart out



Parallax said:


> Gillen is also the reason Remender is leaving UXF
> 
> fuck that fool


as much as it pains my heart this is true, I just hope he makes up for it in iron man, and old time favorites of mine


----------



## Parallax (Sep 12, 2012)

I like Gillen's UX run, but I never buy it

so I guess I don't think it's that good.  Sorry guys I tried :'[


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 12, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I like Gillen's UX run, but I never buy it
> 
> so I guess I don't think it's that good.  Sorry guys I tried :'[



it is ok ok, we all allow to miss one good book, now back to WatXM

ok how many of you like genesis (evan)? and what you think of him?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2012)

Es said:


> Also why the fuck does Bendis keep writing the Hulk like he's still the Savage incarnation? It pisses me off to no end and it just shows to me he doesn't read the books.



in big events i notice a lot of characters default back to their best known incarnations to some extent, probably to make more sense to casual readers. 

He didn't seem particularly one way or the other though.

I gotta admit I liked this issue. It's just so fucking pretty. Coipel is unreal. And Bendis' dialogue didn't bother me, though apparently it bothered everyone else.


----------



## Kanali (Sep 12, 2012)

If it weren't for the art of AvX 11 it would have been enough for me so become to mad I turned into the Incredible Hulk and smashed Bendis and everyone else involved in this abortion of an event. 

Thank god Gillen is the one writing Consequences, he's the only writer thats been able to take this turd and polish it into excellent issues. I loved the Colossus/Magik interaction in the most recent one.

Also 

Looks like the new Thunderbolts is essentially X-Force minus the mutants.


----------



## Es (Sep 12, 2012)

No. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


----------



## hehey (Sep 12, 2012)

Ive never hated a comic book like i hate this one, this whole event has been nothing but pure character assasination on Cyclops... and i never even liked him.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 12, 2012)

Es said:


> No. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!



you know that fact that it had venom red hulk and electra actually made me want to post bison's yes reaction video, but then I saw it was way, and I'm force to ask how bad is he before I post that ten minutes no video that I save for really dire situations


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2012)

hehey said:


> Ive never hated a comic book like i hate this one, this whole event has been nothing but pure character assasination on Cyclops... and i never even liked him.



Really? Overreacting maybe? This isn't Cry for Justice.


----------



## sanx021 (Sep 12, 2012)

Uncanny X-men was great Emma and Scott's conversation while the Avengers attack their active bodies was great


----------



## hehey (Sep 12, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Really? Overreacting maybe? This isn't Cry for Justice.


Cry for Justice?, i dont give a shit about that pice of bullcrap, i just finished reading what amounts to Brian Micheal Bendis urinating on the X-Men.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2012)

lol ok. **


----------



## Es (Sep 12, 2012)

And now he's gonna write them after this shit is done


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 12, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> I just feel like if scott was like ok but I want my team with her 24/7 cap would be hard pressed to escalate things without having a massive back draft from the avengers and looking like a straight up undeniable villain, as oppose to: stupid, misguided, trying to do best to protect earth or whatever floats your boat, it would've made make easier for people like me for example to align with cyclops, instead we got "it's mutant problem" which is not, and "behold optic blast"



Its still Scott giving into captain americas demands just because hes captain america.

"My way or the highway" is not a form of diplomacy, especially when he's talking about the potential restoration of the other guy's entire race, so there's no reason for Scott to treat it like a negotiation. Cap certainly didn't, seeing as he brought a helicarrier packed with avengers.

Also, does anybody else love how the entire basis of the avengers side of this argument is that the phoenix is a malevolent force that can't be controlled, but now they're treating scott like he's in total control of said malevolent force that can't be controlled?

"Damn you Summers!"


----------



## Blitzomaru (Sep 12, 2012)

Back in 2009 Bill Clinton went to North Korea and brought back 3 hostages. He went with a compliment of 40 soldiers. Because when you are going into a negotiation that can get physical, you make sure you're not endangered either. All the Avengers stayed on the Helicarrier. Scott and Cap talked. Scott threw the first punch. And the only reason the Avengers thought Hope could control it was that the guys from Kun Lun said she could. Before that it was trying to keep the Phoenix from reaching earth.

The needs of the many outweigh he needs of the few. He is putting the lives of billions of people at risk on the off chance that a girl younger than Jean Grey can handle the possession of a being of near unlimited cosmic power and  influence. Sure, Iron man trying to blast the Phoenix was retarded, but the X-men are playing the persecuted minority card a bit too hard. And when they did get the power, it corrupted them. They played god with animal biology. Colossus gave whales legs and they started dying. Emma started killing people who had dark secrets. Scott became blindingly stubborn in his goal. Magik tried to kill Avengers. Namor, was just Namor. A giant douche, but a lot stronger.


----------



## sanx021 (Sep 12, 2012)

Hope can control the phoenix because some guy from KUN LUN said she can but when the X-men say she can they're wrong and putting the earth in danger the worst thing to happen to the Phoenix was to tie it in with the iron fist story


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 12, 2012)

Blitzomaru said:


> Back in 2009 Bill Clinton went to North Korea and brought back 3 hostages. He went with a compliment of 40 soldiers. Because when you are going into a negotiation that can get physical, you make sure you're not endangered either. All the Avengers stayed on the Helicarrier. Scott and Cap talked. Scott threw the first punch.



Utopia is not north korea. A US president going to an allied nation with a compliment of 40 soldiers would be considered an utter insult to said nation.

The simple fact that the X-Men continued to assist the avengers and act as a superhero team (even if they're a scary one) should earn them enough respect that they aren't treated as so potentially hostile.

Scott threw the first punch because Cap said he was not leaving without Hope, and one of the most gifted telepaths on the planet read his mind and confirmed that there was no room for debate.



> And the only reason the Avengers thought Hope could control it was that the guys from Kun Lun said she could. Before that it was trying to keep the Phoenix from reaching earth.



The guys from K'un L'un had a book. That's it. That and Danny saying "trust me guys!" is all it takes, but they won't even consider the idea when they hear it from cyclops?



> The needs of the many outweigh he needs of the few. He is putting the lives of billions of people at risk on the off chance that a girl younger than Jean Grey can handle the possession of a being of near unlimited cosmic power and  influence.


The avengers are putting the entire mutant race (and the entire human race) at risk on the off chance that they can destroy / contain a fundamental force of the universe. Keep in mind, Beast confirmed a while back that there wasn't enough genetic variance for mutants to continue on as a race, so its not like the Xmen are looking for a shortcut here.

Also, how are the avengers not doing the exact same thing? Is it because K'un L'un said so?



> Sure, Iron man trying to blast the Phoenix was retarded, but the X-men are playing the persecuted minority card a bit too hard. And when they did get the power, it corrupted them. They played god with animal biology. Colossus gave whales legs and they started dying. Emma started killing people who had dark secrets. Scott became blindingly stubborn in his goal. Magik tried to kill Avengers. Namor, was just Namor. A giant douche, but a lot stronger.



What evidence do the avengers have that they would be able to destroy/contain the phoenix?

At least there is proof that the phoenix can lie dormant within its intended hosts for long periods of time.

And of course it corrupted them, they aren't the intended hosts.


----------



## Kanali (Sep 12, 2012)

If Cap wanted to make sure he was safe he would have brought Thor and Iron Man. 

If he wanted to send a message he would have brought the main Avengers squad. 

But he brought EVERYONE. Every Avenger. Everyone affiliated with the Avengers at the time. He knew that shit was going down big time. Part of his plan involved shit going down big time. Telling Cyke that Hope was coming with him was a curtesy. He didn't negotiate, he was basically throwing Scott a bone saying "Hey, you can come with if you want but Hope is leaving Earth no matter what anyone says".

Negotiating would have been "Here's my plan for the situation, what have you got?". "You're the expert on the Phoenix, whats your take on this?". "I disagree with that, lets sit down and work out something that acceptable to the both of us". If this thing made sense it would have been over after 1 issue.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2012)

this debate again?


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 12, 2012)

sanx021 said:


> Hope can control the phoenix because some guy from KUN LUN said she can but when the X-men say she can they're wrong and putting the earth in danger the worst thing to happen to the Phoenix was to tie it in with the iron fist story


no hope* can't* control the phoenix unless she get the training from kun lun, because they did this exact same thing in this exact same scenario already



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Its still Scott giving into captain americas demands just because hes captain america.
> 
> "My way or the highway" is not a form of diplomacy, especially when he's talking about the potential restoration of the other guy's entire race, so there's no reason for Scott to treat it like a negotiation. Cap certainly didn't, seeing as he brought a helicarrier packed with avengers.
> 
> ...


he is not, captain america wouldn't purposely try to screw the x-men over the only reason he went there was because the phoenix was destroying was a risk to the planet at that moment, and has been before, and could easily be in the future, and a spotty track record is not something you want to bet the fate of the world.

when scott said this is a mutant problem, even tho the phoenix was destroying, well he showed he wasn't concerned for the humanity, humanity be damned, I mean after all he could at least have understood how the rest may actually like to object to something that can easily go wrong and kill them all, even after the fact.

He collaborating with cap, wouldn't have seem like him somehow becoming subservient to cap, but instead it would should that he had enough foresight to see how this would help mutant/human relationships, it would mean that he is smart enough to put any differences aside that dream still lived in someway.

But no, like I say him calling this global crisis a mutant problem, cost him a lot of sympathy, and to me that combined with all the isolation, and the scatter lines about homo superior being the next step in evolution, as if they were suppose to inherit the earth or something, made really not like the character, I mean he was getting into a high horse, as if his race was somehow better and what not and as if humans need not to get involved in this the fact that planets are being destroyed be damned, it was jarring (although somewhat expected) and I don't think I would like him as super-hero for a long time after this


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 12, 2012)

Kanali said:


> If it weren't for the art of AvX 11 it would have been enough for me so become to mad I turned into the Incredible Hulk and smashed Bendis and everyone else involved in this abortion of an event.
> 
> Thank god Gillen is the one writing Consequences, he's the only writer thats been able to take this turd and polish it into excellent issues. I loved the Colossus/Magik interaction in the most recent one.
> 
> ...



It's like Marvel looked at the cover and said "you know what this book needs? more red paint."

also yay another Marvel Now! book I won't be picking up. this relaunch is doing wonders for trimming down my pull list


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 12, 2012)

Petes is right, its pointless to argue about which side is better.

Both parties acted out of character, because had they acted in character we most definitely wouldn't seen any fighting in issue 1, and possibly wouldn't have seen any fighting at all. Marvel wanted to open their big hero vs. hero event with EPIC FIGHTS, and were willing to ignore characterization to do so.

Just like last time, I feel silly that I wasted time on discussing this because the obvious answer to all of this is simply that AvX is a poorly written storyline. They started with a handful of events that they wanted to take place and told their "architects" to write a story that would allow those events to take place, which clearly took priority over characterization and quality storytelling.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 12, 2012)

ok guys, is Way good or bad or terrible?

ten people online and no one can put me out of my misery?


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 12, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Petes is right, its pointless to argue about this.
> 
> Both parties acted out of character, because had they acted in character we most definitely wouldn't seen any fighting in issue 1, and possibly wouldn't have seen any fighting at all. Marvel wanted to open their big hero vs. hero event with EPIC FIGHTS, and were willing to ignore characterization to do so.
> 
> Just like last time, I feel silly that I wasted time on discussing this because the obvious answer to all of this is that AvX is a poorly written storyline. They started with a handful of events that they wanted to take place and told their "architects" to write a story around those events, which clearly took a priority over characterization and quality storytelling.


I agree with this down to the last comma


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2012)

basically. once the phoenix five came on the scene though the whole conflict became a lot more legitimate so I don't get why everyone's complaining about it now, with issue 11.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 12, 2012)

Xavier was so danm awesome, ill miss him for the 10 minutes he's gone, Danm AVX was great this week.



Blackfeather Dragon said:


> ok guys, is Way good or bad or terrible?
> 
> ten people online and no one can put me out of my misery?



Daniel Way?

Hes Hit or miss, His  wolverine run was shit, but his Astonishing X-men and Deadpool run was good


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 12, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> ok guys, is Way good or bad or terrible?
> 
> ten people online and no one can put me out of my misery?



he's awful, I can't think of any of his stuff that I actually liked...on occasion though his Deadpool will become decent enough to be enjoyable


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 12, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> basically. once the phoenix five came on the scene though the whole conflict became a lot more legitimate so I don't get why everyone's complaining about it now, with issue 11.



My issue is that the avengers wanted to destroy / capture the phoenix force because they saw it as a malevolent and uncontrollable force, but now they are treating scott like he is in total control of said malevolent uncontrollable force.

Also, outside of one line of dialogue in a tie in, nobody has mentioned the fact that the phoenix 5 would not exist if not for the actions of tony stark.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 12, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Xavier was so danm awesome, ill miss him for the 10 minutes he's gone, Danm AVX was great this week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Emperor Joker said:


> he's awful, I can't think of any of his stuff that I actually liked...on occasion though his Deadpool will become decent enough to be enjoyable



, I'm going to give his first a try then


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 12, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> My issue is that the avengers wanted to destroy / capture the phoenix force because they saw it as a malevolent and uncontrollable force, but now they are treating scott like he is in total control of said malevolent uncontrollable force.



sounds like they are treating him as a guy who needs help, because  while yes its the  phenoix causing the problem its still the path scott wanted form the start of the event, additionally scott is saying he is in control.


----------



## Kanali (Sep 12, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> sounds like they are treating him as a guy who needs help, because  while yes its the  phenoix causing the problem its still the path scott wanted form the start of the event, additionally scott is saying he is in control.



Unless Cap helps people by arresting them and his oldest friend telling him he's sick of him is helping, no not at all. Also they throw Emma in jail after this so she's obviously not being pardoned for being possessed. Only Wanda gets that privilege because every male Avenger has the hots for her.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 12, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Unless Cap helps people by arresting them and his oldest friend telling him he's sick of him is helping, no not at all. Also they throw Emma in jail after this so she's obviously not being pardoned for being possessed. Only Wanda gets that privilege because every male Avenger has the hots for her.



considering the shit she did  yes she dose have to set out  for the rest of the fight, especially since she doesn't seem to regret her actions, we know cyclops is gonna be in ANXM so i doubt he will be in prison.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2012)

so apparently 
*Spoiler*: __ 



xavier died? cus that wasnt clear at all but thats what the news is saying. i never understand why marvel goes to the news with comic book deaths no one cares about outside of comics, and will be undone in a few years


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 12, 2012)

form the context of the story being told Xavier dying was  great.


but outside of that Xavier has died  so many times its hard to get to worked up about it.


----------



## sanx021 (Sep 12, 2012)

Xavier has already died 5 times in the last 10 years his death has no Impact should have had Scott kill Havok Or Iceman that would prove a point


----------



## shit (Sep 12, 2012)

glad it's not emma


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 12, 2012)

To Die or to be the Big Bad of the Event


----------



## shit (Sep 12, 2012)

or to live in mockingbird-esque obscurity


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 12, 2012)

Well Emma kinda deserves to die at this point but it looks like shes safe. I don't think any of the p5 will be seriously held accountable for their crimes against humanity and nature.


----------



## shit (Sep 12, 2012)

nah I think cyclops is bound for the raft or some shit after this


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 12, 2012)

shit said:


> nah I think cyclops is bound for the raft or some shit after this



its  sounds like he is gonna be in All new  X-men


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 12, 2012)

shit said:


> nah I think cyclops is bound for the raft or some shit after this




*Spoiler*: __ 



he's going to be fucking lobotomized if the Uncanny Avengers preview is anything to go bye


----------



## shit (Sep 12, 2012)

cbr doesn't have that preview apparently

where is it?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 12, 2012)

shit said:


> cbr doesn't have that preview apparently
> 
> where is it?



I think Newsarama had it. Bleeding cool also had some of it


----------



## sanx021 (Sep 12, 2012)

it hasn't been confirmed it's Cyclops some say it's Avalanche and some say some one else


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2012)

uh yeah what are you talking about? what preview?


----------



## Bergelmir (Sep 12, 2012)

Here you go Petes: 

Unless Cyclops is becoming a supervillain(which would explain that horrid costume), I don't see how that can be Cyclops since the lobotomy is being done by the Red Skull's guys.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Sep 12, 2012)

sanx021 said:


> Xavier has already died 5 times in the last 10 years his death has no Impact should have had Scott kill Havok Or Iceman that would prove a point


Honestly, killing either Havok or Iceman would make Scott the best hero in Marvel. He should nuke Beast and Wolverbitch afterward to further cement it.


----------



## Kanali (Sep 13, 2012)

Also Cyclops doesn't have black fucking hair. Its not him.

I'm hoping that one of the previews we've been seeing lately is for a new Extinction Team or Blue Side book. I'd hate for Cyclops to be stuck as a background character in Bendis' crapfest.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 13, 2012)

If anything I'd honestly rather him come back in uncanny avengers, at least there it'd be remender.

Or he could come back in whatever second title gillen is writing. Or Iron Man. Fuck it, Gillen would make it awesome.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

AvsX was horrible offensive disgusting trash

New Avengers in a way was even worse


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 13, 2012)

this thunderbolt is looking to be all the right things minus the creative team, I'm scared


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

just twenty pages of ass holes flailing around trying to figure out how they're better than strawmen racial supremacists and failing


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

Uncanny 18 heals my soul though


----------



## Kanali (Sep 13, 2012)

New Thunderbolts is Uncanny X-Force minus mutants and Remender.


----------



## shit (Sep 13, 2012)

way's taking over uxf as well, rite?


----------



## Kanali (Sep 13, 2012)

Remender is quitting but they haven't announced a successor yet iirc.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

Thunderbolts, aka the red avengers was a Loeb idea.
Nuff said


----------



## shit (Sep 13, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Remender is quitting but they haven't announced a successor yet iirc.



then there's hope for this world yet

plz don't be bunn
plz don't be way


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 13, 2012)

bachalo's art on watxm 16 was crazy good... too bad he's leaving the book, guess I'm dropping it.


----------



## Es (Sep 13, 2012)

I may as well start it


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

I did not like WATXM :-/

The helfire brats were always one of the weaker points of this book, and I felt no conection to this kid at all.
He's an evil fucker. That's it. I don't need his sob story, he's like twelve.
Specially not if it's going to be sooooo thick and wordy


----------



## Parallax (Sep 13, 2012)

it's the best X book though 

:x


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

You spelled "Third or fourth best" wrong


----------



## Parallax (Sep 13, 2012)

No I don't think I did


----------



## Es (Sep 13, 2012)

I think you did


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2012)

yeah you did :/


----------



## Parallax (Sep 13, 2012)

I guess I'm just not infatuated with Gillen :\


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

Of course not.
That is what JiM is here for


----------



## Kanali (Sep 13, 2012)

It goes like this.

X-Factor
Uncanny X-Men
Uncanny X-Force
X-Treme X-Men
Wolverine and the X-Men
X-Men
X-Men Legacy


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I guess I'm just not infatuated with Gillen :\



or Remender? 
edit: is extreme really at all good?


@Banhammer: 

how much do you hate this?


----------



## shit (Sep 13, 2012)

or David

I don't think I've seen you with a more terrible opinion, parallax


----------



## Kanali (Sep 13, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> or Remender?
> edit: is extreme really at all good?
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, its amazing. The art is great and the story is a lot of fun. 

I can't believe they're ripping off Battle Royale. And how is this going to be an ongoing? Are the kids going to kill each other for 30+ issues?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2012)

to be fair aaron's pretty good and I like watxm, but I think it's suffered a lot more from this crossover shit than uncanny. which was kinda written with AvX in mind from the start.


----------



## Es (Sep 13, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> or Remender?
> edit: is extreme really at all good?
> 
> 
> ...


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVdefnWV5P4[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Es (Sep 13, 2012)

Seriously fuck you Marvel


----------



## shit (Sep 13, 2012)

hahaha

why do they always gruesomely murder the youngest heroes?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2012)

god that show looks really awful


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2012)

shit said:


> hahaha
> 
> why do they always gruesomely murder the youngest heroes?



spring cleaning **


----------



## Kanali (Sep 13, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> to be fair aaron's pretty good and I like watxm, but I think it's suffered a lot more from this crossover shit than uncanny. which was kinda written with AvX in mind from the start.



I loathe Aaron's writing on Hulk and WatXm. WatXm portrays Logan as some kind of saint while he's an asshole/killer in every other comic he appears in. The side characters are pretty much ignored unless they get to assist in developing Logan, with a few descent exceptions. I can't believe that Final Execution which ends in November is supposed to be telling the story of how Wolverine becomes a pacifist. So he was just faking it in WatXm up until then? Its like how they're releasing Sabretooths resurrection story now when he's already been a major villain in three titels for months. 

On Hulk Aaron decided to take a giant shit on the final Greg Pak arc and Banner goes from realizing he and the Hulk are the same person to being a psychopath and the Hulk goes from family man back to loner. Only for all of it to be hokus pokus reversed this issue in order to set up Waid's run. 

I don't think WatXm suffered from AvX more than Uncanny, Aaron just failed to capitalize on it as well. I don't see why people like Aaron but to each his own I suppose. I hope he does better with Thor than he did with Hulk.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2012)

I don't agree watxm has portrayed wolverine as a saint or pacifist. he's either barely running the school or chopping up aliens every issue.


----------



## shit (Sep 13, 2012)

I thought them going into outer space was really stupid


----------



## Es (Sep 13, 2012)




----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

I think he misexpressed himself.
*Spoiler*: _Banhammer Rant no one even likes to read any more. Spoilered for your convenience._ 




Yes logan is misrepresented because in that book, he is made out to be some sort of role model.
Even if there's some angst about it is true, he is to role models the same twilight is to abstinence porn.
He's this "edgy" moron who is pretty much safe to like, because he is harmless you and indestructible and he goes around being a giant bag of cocks after mean bullies, and thus this equates to authority of Xavier's dream
It's terrible because the nobody with the layered personality of a cardboard box and crushed my immortal fanfics  is now the champion of Xavier's dream, to protect a world of people who hates and fears mutants.
Meanwhile, there's the fact that the heart of the franchise is a struggle of dichotomy, not on just rising above the circumstances, but of _how_ you do it.
It is said that Magneto named his society the brotherhood of Evil to subtly force the man with the power of god over people's minds into taking a more roughly ethical path, because Xavier had decided to define himself against Erik
So the worse thing about the new dichotomy is not the position that Logan takes. That's whatever, your personal taste.
It's the position logan takes himself against that is horribly written.
Specially when you consider it is all a pack of projected lies.
And why does he get to do that? Because snikt, that's why.
Because popping claws and growling like an imbecile sells a shit ton of lunchboxes.
And out of that, we have to swallow the demeaning of these great stories that actually mean something to us
Because god forbid we don't acknowledge wolverine has  a pair of claws and a bad attitude for five fucking minutes, and thus deserving of every moral laureate the industry can give him
Hell, why don't we even make it so that he founded the X-Men in the first place

AvsX is just an extension of that. You have Xavier laying down the worse kind of words you could do to a man you love like a son, as if truth is, Scott is the one who kicked Xavier from the X-Men after he found out what he had done to Danger.
Not to mention Vulcan, Scott's brother.
And why we have that?
So that no one pays attention to how giant of a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) captain cashcow and the bubcaneers are acting, and stop buying lunchboxes

It's nothing but a pump up campaign, just in time for those Avengers movie dvd's, to really get the hulk smash fanbase going.




Which is why gillen is a soul healer. This storyline may all be just a bunch of terrible bitter rue that could ruin my enjoyment of comic books for a long time to come, but thanks to his miraculous work, I will be able to preserve fond memories of a better time with the X-Men, even through this whole mess


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> or Remender?
> edit: is extreme really at all good?
> 
> 
> ...



I don't actually.
Arcade has been a horrible joke of a villain, and I'm a fan of both hunger games and battle royal, which was also a successful manga
Who are the writers?
Dennis Hopeless and Kev Walker
I don't recognize these names
Who's the cast


> And last but certainly not least, direct from the pages of the dearly missed Runaways, we have Chase and Nico!"



Bitch, you are in danger


----------



## Es (Sep 13, 2012)

I am disappoint


> Who's the cast


Most of everyone I cared about in AA and some others 





> Hazmat, Mettle, Reptil, Juston and his Sentinel and X-23.


and Some of the Runways

You likely missed


> Not sure if we made it clear yet, but people die in this book."


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

Don't you "some of the runaways" me.

I am going to write a letter I say


----------



## Parallax (Sep 13, 2012)

rofl David

X-Factor is the epitome of a solid pretty good title and that's really it.

Yeah I like Remender but X-force has taken a step down


----------



## Es (Sep 13, 2012)

> we have Chase and Nico!"



You as mad as I am now?


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

I would understand why XFactor would rank billboard among it's dedicated fanbase.

I wouldn't put it above UXM myself, but I do support it being ranked above Watxm


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

Es said:


> You as mad as I am now?



No, I'm scared. And emotionally invested. 

If something happens to them, specially something really stupid, then I'll be mad


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

The evil Marvel HQ have taken my tributes, and now all I can do is watch


----------



## Parallax (Sep 13, 2012)

also UXF has gone down (a bit) for me because the constant art rotation and the massive loss of White on colors

which watxm has also fallen towards :\


----------



## Es (Sep 13, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> No, I'm scared. And emotionally invested.
> 
> If something happens to them, specially something really stupid, then I'll be mad



You have two characters. I have at at least 3 (4?) I have more to loose

All I feel for Marvel is hate


----------



## Kanali (Sep 13, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I think he misexpressed himself.
> *Spoiler*: _Banhammer Rant no one even likes to read any more. Spoilered for your convenience._
> 
> 
> ...



Exactly. Logan doesn't work as a Professor X figure. The appeal of his character has always been that he's the gruff guy with the bad attitude that will do the bad things no one else will do, yet he still has good in him which is shown through his interactions with younger girls like Jubilee and Kitty. This put him in stark contrast to Cyclops who played by the book and refused to deviate from what he considered the path of justice.

Then came Schism which attempted a paradigm shift where Logan is suddenly the moral one and Cyclops is an extremist. This failed miserably however because they didn't make Cyclops unsympathetic enough. He still wasn't nearly as bad as Magneto or classic Wolverine and he still did everything in his power to save mankind and promote mutant/human peace, which made Wolverine seem petty and hypocritical, especially since he was still being written as gruff, mean and extreme in every other book other than Wolverine and the X-Men. Combine this with the fact that the only one holding a grudge post-Schism is Wolverine and he suddenly looks like a massive asshole. 

AvX does the same thing. They set up Cyclops as the villain yet don't let him do anything the least bit villainous. Bad writing makes it so that AvX is in its entirety the Avengers faults yet asks us to root for them while making them extremely unsympathetic. Its Civil War all over again. After this is over, best case scenario is Cyclops will be pardoned, everything will be blamed on the Phoenix and this event will fade into obscurity. Worst case scenario, the absolutely godawful character depictions (not just of Cyclops but of everyone) actually effect Marvel Now.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

> do the bad things no one else will do


This is also a horrible wolverine that makes everyone around him a boldface liar and hypocrite

A proper wolverine is someone who won't hesitate to do a necessary thing, unlike most other people and thus lead to greater damage, someone who accepts pain into himself so that it doesn't hit others

It is not someone that keeps other asshole's hands clean, like he is with the avengers


That's why old man logan was so perfect. Logan was broken because ultimately it was his own rashness that got everyone he used for an excuse  for his way of life dead by his own hands.


Not mind control, not a lack of stabbing of a bigger dick, just him vs his own friends, and the fact that the reason why isn't shunned as a monster is merely the direction on which he is aimed at


----------



## Kanali (Sep 13, 2012)

Thats why Uncanny X-Force is so good. Remender actually knows and understands the characters. Too bad its ending in two issues and the only Wolverine around will be Saint Logan the Hypocritical.


----------



## shit (Sep 13, 2012)

Parallax said:


> rofl David
> 
> X-Factor is the epitome of a solid pretty good title and that's really it.
> 
> Yeah I like Remender but X-force has taken a step down



*solid pretty good title for longer than any other marvel book has been solid and/or pretty good and/or a title

except switch pretty with very

I like how you won't defend anything about watxm, just cheerlead for it as generally as possible


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

Well, the Arena is a very dark and brutal both physically and psychological experience, about kids being forced to kill each other, and even allying to enact murder.
I am not sure how a super hero comic book owned by disney is going to quite approach that...


----------



## Parallax (Sep 13, 2012)

X-Factor is the Antawn Jamison of comics.  It's been reliable and consistent for a long time but that's really it.

I just like watxm more although the crossover has derailed it


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 13, 2012)

Arena would actually work if it were say a mini instead of an ongoing...and not actually set in the primary marvel universe. the premise is not something you can make an extended ongoing out of...unless Arcade (and whoever hired him) decided to nab more people when the current batch runs out.

anybody read Legion of Monsters or Gearhead? as i've honesty never heard of Hopeless before I looked him up


----------



## shit (Sep 13, 2012)

xf has had moments of greatness all its own

which watxm hasn't had since issue one


----------



## Parallax (Sep 13, 2012)

It has its moments and I like that David has been left in his corner to do his thing

I just don't care for it very much.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Arena would actually work if it were say a mini instead of an ongoing...and not actually set in the primary marvel universe. the premise is not something you can make an extended ongoing out of...unless Arcade (and whoever hired him) decided to nab more people when the current batch runs out.
> 
> anybody read Legion of Monsters or Gearhead? as i've honesty never heard of Hopeless before I looked him up



I read Legion of Monsters for a little while

It was not too bad
I think.

I can't remember much detail


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

Also, both HG and BR were loaded with social comentary

How the hell are they gonna fit that in Arena?


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 13, 2012)

loool at all the wolverine hate in this thread just lool, now it's suddenly his fault cyclops is a bigger ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) than he was pre-avx?? lool don't blame wolverine for being vastly more popular..... vastly. blame the writers for taking a dumb on cycles already stained reputation/


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

A guy named Narutosss disapproves, thus validating my opinion


----------



## Es (Sep 13, 2012)

Wolverine is an afterthought to me seeing how some of my favorite young characters run the risk of being butchered for shock value. But yeah seeing marvel shit on Cyclops in favor of Logan and the Avengers while skewering their character is a tad annoying


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 13, 2012)

if you look at it this way... AVX makes up for fox shitting all over wolverine and deadpool in x-men origins wolverine... god that movie was bad.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2012)

Es said:


> Wolverine is an afterthought to me seeing how some of my favorite young characters run the risk of being butchered for shock value. But yeah seeing marvel shit on Cyclops in favor of Logan and the Avengers while skewering their character is a tad annoying



I'm genuinely interested but will drop it fast if it's lame

It's every comic book company wet dream though, I am appalled no one has ever thought of it before


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Sep 13, 2012)

Avengers Arena sounds like that one Teen Titans story with Ravager from the build-up to Final Crisis.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Also, both HG and BR were loaded with social comentary



can you spell out their names because I have no idea who you're talking about :| :|


----------



## Es (Sep 13, 2012)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> Avengers Arena sounds like that one Teen Titans story with Ravager from the build-up to Final Crisis.



It just sounds gay to me because several of the characters I like run the risk of getting axed for shock value and the prospect of resurrection looks slim for guys like Juston, Mettle or Hazmat. X-23 is definitely going to survive because female Wolverine


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 13, 2012)

Es said:


> But yeah seeing marvel shit on Cyclops in favor of Logan and the Avengers while skewering their character is a tad annoying



Cyclops hasn't done any ting that it wasn't with in him to do already except Xavier and clearly they aren't gonna present that as his fault.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Sep 13, 2012)

Es said:


> It just sounds gay to me because several of the characters I like run the risk of getting axed for shock value and the prospect of resurrection looks slim for guys like Juston, Mettle or Hazmat. X-23 is definitely going to survive because female Wolverine



Oh, I definitely agree. I'm still wondering what the fuck Darkhawk and Cammi are doing in this POS other than possibly being cannon fodder.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 13, 2012)

Huh Avengers arena?

I Swear i had more or less this Exact idea like a year ago.


----------



## Es (Sep 14, 2012)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> Oh, I definitely agree. I'm still wondering what the fuck Darkhawk and Cammi are doing in this POS other than possibly being cannon fodder.



I knew something in Marvel now would piss me off but not this much


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 14, 2012)

Considering who Cammi has been hanging out with i doubt she will just be cannon fodder.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> can you spell out their names because I have no idea who you're talking about :| :|



Hunger Games and Battle Royal


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 14, 2012)

So I'm rereading New X Men, and will go into astonishing once I'm done. I'd recommend it to anybody who hasn't read them in a while and is sick of AvX, definitely refreshing.

I miss logan being the guy who goes to help Angel, sees a bunch of U men about to harvest her organs and shit, slaughters them all, then is like "Sorry, saw red there for a sec. I'm wolverine, I'm here to help." while this girl is clearly losing her shit. So great.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)

now that sounds like a plan


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 14, 2012)

Es said:


> You have two characters. I have at at least 3 (4?) I have more to loose
> 
> All I feel for Marvel is hate



I like all the runaways plus all the academy ones, fuck you marvel.


----------



## Kanali (Sep 14, 2012)

Holy shit this looks awesome. This is the most excited I have been over a Marvel Now title.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 14, 2012)

I was going to post that, that being said new thunderbolts vs new force gogogo


----------



## Kanali (Sep 14, 2012)

Just the "Killers" teaser left. If thats not another X-Force team, I'm guessing its the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. Hopefully the same team thats going wild in Uncanny X-Force or at least one with Sabretooth and Mystique.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 14, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Just the "Killers" teaser left. If thats not another X-Force team, I'm guessing its the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. Hopefully the same team thats going wild in Uncanny X-Force or at least one with Sabretooth and Mystique.



I think there's also a chance that it could be where Scott ends up. If Marvel really wants to push the whole "SCOTT YOU SO CRAZY!" angle, might as well do it right.

Also, imagine a scott led x force team + a cable led x force team going up against the uncanny avengers (who are supposedly gunning for Cable). Awesome.

Also, Havok is confirmed for worst family member ever.


----------



## Kanali (Sep 14, 2012)

Only Rachel left now then he'll have tried to kill every member of his family


----------



## Hellion (Sep 14, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Holy shit this looks awesome. This is the most excited I have been over a Marvel Now title.



I honestly have gotten too adapted to the current X-Force to care for this team initially. 

Also here is a deadpool video:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo-tWlETq8w&hd=1[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 14, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Holy shit this looks awesome. This is the most excited I have been over a Marvel Now title.



I hope This Means Forge isn't Crazy any more


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 14, 2012)

Am I one of the few whose hating this storyline?


----------



## Amuro (Sep 14, 2012)

Eh 90's edgy X-Force plus Larroca don't really do anything for me. What the fuck have they done to the dapper Dr Nemesis.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 14, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Am I one of the few whose hating this storyline?



no there's  plenty of  people complaining about this that or the other  thing.

In related news


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 14, 2012)

Nifty wig. Makes me wonder what her natural hair colour is.


----------



## Kanali (Sep 14, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Am I one of the few whose hating this storyline?



AvX? No, everyone does.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 14, 2012)

Kanali said:


> AvX? No, *everyone *does.



I Don't.


----------



## Amuro (Sep 14, 2012)

I'm in the "it's so bad, it's good" camp. Should've been called Marvel Universe vs Scott Summers from the start.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 14, 2012)

Amuro said:


> I'm in the "it's so bad, it's good" camp. Should've been called Marvel Universe vs Scott Summers from the start.



no cause the Majority of X-men sided with scott in the beginning.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 14, 2012)

Or more like "The tragedy of Scott Summers trying to do the right thing for all these years"


----------



## Kanali (Sep 14, 2012)

The worst thing about it is they can't even commit to a coherent story. They promised this would be Avengers vs X-Men and that the two teams wouldn't team up to fight the Phoenix or some other threat in the end yet thats exactly what happened. Then there is the plethora of plot holes with writers not even reading the other issues in the event and of course the worst thing, making the Avengers idiots and assholes yet expecting us to cheer for them. They should have just given it to Hickman or Gillen, they're the only ones that've done something remotely compelling with this story.


----------



## Amuro (Sep 14, 2012)

That is pretty funny especially in #11, the Avengers are supposed to be the good guys yet they come across as anything but. Steve comes across as a twat with every single word that comes out of his mouth. The way Bendis writes Cap is cringe worthy to say the least.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)

"FOCUS ON EMMA AND SCOTT!"

You don't say!


----------



## Amuro (Sep 14, 2012)

"SCOTT SUMMERS YOU ARE UNDER ARREST FOR CRIMES AGAINST -"

really not the time Steve


----------



## Kanali (Sep 14, 2012)

"You're under arrest"

Seriously? Good luck arresting what is one of - if not the - most powerful creature in the universe Cap. Where are you gonna put him, Cosmic Jail? Good god that was awful. Not to mention this lovely exchange:

Chuck - "Hey Cap, see those mutant refugees coming toward us, what do you suppose they are?"

Cap - "Numbers? Soldiers in my war? Meatshields? Genefreaks?"

Chuck - "No man, people...."

Cap - "Oh yeah thats totally what I meant...."

Since when has Captain America been written as as cold hearted soldier? Is this Ultimate Marvel?


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)

Finally shows humility, acknowledges past mistakes and reasonably asks for help to solve his problems


Is talking about the Hulk

Scumbagcaptainamerica.jpg


----------



## Amuro (Sep 14, 2012)

"Hey Scott, dude i don't think it's a good idea for Hope to get the Phoenix she's not ready. It's okay though i've got Tony making an Anti-Phoenix gun we'll destroy that cockatoo. He assures me he knows what he's doing."

fast forward....

"Hey think it would be a good idea to give the Phoenix to Hope....."


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)

Sicks an assassin on the girl

Fast forward

YOU WOULD DARE HARM A GIRL? TRULY YOU HAVE NO HONOR


----------



## Kanali (Sep 14, 2012)

"Using a cosmic force to create your own perfect world is wrong. There's no telling how many lives you've ruined. You've gone insane and you must be stopped by any means necessary."

Is talking to Scott and not Wanda who's standing two feet away backing him up.


----------



## Kanali (Sep 14, 2012)

Shows up with an army of Avengers prepared to invade in a giant hellicarrier and demands that Scott gives him his granddaughter, team mate and only hope. 

Is outraged when he's attacked.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)

So would you say

He's a Scumbag Steve?


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 14, 2012)

Amuro said:


> "Hey Scott, dude i don't think it's a good idea for Hope to get the Phoenix she's not ready. It's okay though i've got Tony making an Anti-Phoenix gun we'll destroy that cockatoo. He assures me he knows what he's doing."
> 
> fast forward....
> 
> "Hey think it would be a good idea to give the Phoenix to Hope....."



after they got her the training and help she needed via kunlun




> "Using a cosmic force to create your own perfect world is wrong. There's no telling how many lives you've ruined. You've gone insane and you must be stopped by any means necessary."
> 
> Is talking to Scott and not Wanda who's standing two feet away backing him up.


 did the same thing when wanda did it, wanda even  acknowledged what she did was wrong and that she needs to atone, and no longer has that power.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)

Tells wanda to atone

Arrests Emma Frost


----------



## Kanali (Sep 14, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> after they got her the training and help she needed via kunlun
> 
> 
> did the same thing when wanda did it, wanda even  acknowledged what she did was wrong and that she needs to atone, and no longer has that power.



And they couldn't have told Scott about K'un-Lun to begin with because....?

He didn't lift a finger to track her down and make her pay after she vanished post-HoM and the first thing he did when she resurfaced was offer her a spot on the Avengers even though every mutant and at least 2/3 of the Avengers were gunning for her blood. If the first thing Cap does after Scott is beaten is give him a hug and offer him a spot on the Avengers, you'll be right.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 14, 2012)

Kanali said:


> And they couldn't have told Scott about K'un-Lun to begin with because....?


 they didn't know  it was an option till Iron Fist started having Visions.




> He didn't lift a finger to track her down and make her pay after she vanished post-HoM


they did try finding her, that was the point she had completely vanished.




> and the first thing he did when she resurfaced was offer her a spot on the Avengers even though every mutant and at least 2/3 of the Avengers were gunning for her blood.


 Cap is big on second chances, Every one she directly killed is now alive. She Expressed horror at what she had done and wants to atone.

i'll have to go back and read but i don't think he actually offerd her an avengers spot.

i don't like that shes walking around ether but that's how it is presented. She isn't gonna be the first or last super hero to get off Scott free with the Hal Jordan Defense.




> If the first thing Cap does after Scott is beaten is give him a hug and offer him a spot on the Avengers, you'll be right.


 we know cyclops gonna be in the All knew x-men book [and colossus is gonna be running with X-force] so i seriously doubt he or any of the p5  will be remaining in custody for long.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)

Kun Lun was stupid for reasons I hold to be self evident


----------



## Kanali (Sep 14, 2012)

Literally the first thing Cap said to Wanda after Doom lost the life force and ported away was "You always have a home with us, once an Avenger always an Avenger" and she turns him down out of guilt.  This is the first time he's met her since HoM. And there were Avengers/heroes that knew she was still alive and where she was after HoM.  

Colossus is never brought into custody, he's deposited in an unknown desert by Magik and turns into his demon form. Besides, he's wanted and has an Avengers squad trying to take him and X-Force down so he certainly isn't getting any second chances. We don't know in what capacity Cyclops will be appearing in ANXM either. All we know is that Emma is being hauled to jail. 

Cap is big on second chances for Avengers and friends, I doubt he'll be ready to forgive Scott for making the best out of a nasty situation Cap created.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)

Ironically Cap was pinning Scott medals of valor before this debacle came around.

Which is why we aren't making fun of cap as much as we are making fun of Michael "SHUT YOUR WHORE'S MOUTH" bendis


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)




----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 14, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Literally the first thing Cap said to Wanda after Doom lost the life force and ported away was "You always have a home with us, once an Avenger always an Avenger" and she turns him down out of guilt.  This is the first time he's met her since HoM.


Alright thats bull shit, but  So was all of CC which was basically "look every one wanda killed is alive and she was crazy so you cant blame her" its bs but  its unfortunately the truth




> And there were Avengers/heroes that knew she was still alive and where she was after HoM.


only 2 and one of them was an X-man. Hawkeye didn't say any thing cause he was so disillusioned with his life, Civil war Ect he felt it didn't matter

Beast [an X-man only at the time he found her] didn't say any thing cause he didn't want to shake the hornets nest.



> Colossus is never brought into custody, he's deposited in an unknown desert by Magik and turns into his demon form. Besides, he's wanted and has an Avengers squad trying to take him and X-Force down so he certainly isn't getting any second chances.


I wanna wait to see why X-force is on the run before i assume its because of  what the phoenix did



> We don't know in what capacity Cyclops will be appearing in ANXM either.


Considering he has a brand new xccostume i doubt he''ll be in a cell





> All we know is that Emma is being hauled to jail.


 for now, It's not to much to want them to sit out till all the bull shit is done



> Cap is big on second chances for Avengers and friends, I doubt he'll be ready to forgive Scott for making the best out of a nasty situation Cap created.


1. They both created it, and scott certainly didn't make shit better by claiming him self king of the world and doing stupid shit with the tectonic plates

2. Victoria hand, The Thunderbolts, X-23, Red hulk, and the  qooky Quartet weren't his friends and he gave them all a second chance.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)

It's cyclops from the past, not the actual scott summers


----------



## Kanali (Sep 14, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> I wanna wait to see why X-force is on the run before i assume its because of  what the phoenix did



Going by the interviews its because they don't agree with Captain Sunshine and Sniktverine on how the world needs to be saved. Also, some of them like Cable, Colossus and maybe Nemesis and Forge are already wanted for other things (Cable for trying to kill the Avengers, Colossus for the Phoenix business and maybe Nemesis for being a Cyclops sympathizer and maybe Forge for the ghost boxes and mutate army thing).



Zen-aku said:


> 1. They both created it, and scott certainly didn't make shit better by claiming him self king of the world and doing stupid shit with the tectonic plates
> 
> 2. Victoria hand, The Thunderbolts, X-23, Red hulk, and the  qooky Quartet weren't his friends and he gave them all a second chance.



1. Cap and the Avengers made Scott and the other four Phoenix hosts. If they hadn't interfered Hope would have become the host and would have controlled it with help from the lights. UNIT and a writer stated as much if I recall correctly. Scott had no part in what happened with the Phoenix Force other than being possessed by it.

2. Which Bolts are you referring to? The Kooky Quartet were brought in by the other Avengers as replacements. Cap didn't return until the others had joined and was essentially put in charge so he did no forgiving. Nor did any of them really do anything to harm him and his buddies (except maybe Hawkeye?). Correct me if I'm mistaken but didn't Rulk and X-23 prove themselves as heroes before being "forgiven"? I'll give you Hand though, even if she had some compelling arguments for why she deserved forgiveness (all she was doing was working for HAMMER and trying to keep Osbourne and the psycho Avengers on track and heroic).

Wanda did nothing to make her deserve forgiveness other than blame it on the life force when all it essentially did was drive her mad(der) with power. Cyclops has an even greater scapegoat in the Phoenix Force which not only is a lot more to handle than the life force but actively corrupts its host (in best case scenarios and Cyclops is far from its first choice of hosts). Cyclops also didn't do anything villainous prior to becoming Phoenix to make him deserve judgement or jail time.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 14, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Going by the interviews its because they don't agree with Captain Sunshine and Sniktverine on how the world needs to be saved. Also, some of them like Cable, Colossus and maybe Nemesis and Forge are already wanted for other things (Cable for trying to kill the Avengers, Colossus for the Phoenix business and maybe Nemesis for being a Cyclops sympathizer and maybe Forge for the ghost boxes and mutate army thing).


 I doubt that's the reason but well see , if  i'm wrong feel free to say you were right




> 1. Cap and the Avengers made Scott and the other four Phoenix hosts. If they hadn't interfered Hope would have become the host and would have controlled it with help from the lights. UNIT and a writer stated as much if I recall correctly. Scott had no part in what happened with the Phoenix Force other than being possessed by it.


 Did you miss the part where  Hope Got the Phoenix said " I can't Control it, Kill me?" If any thing Stark bought them time.





> 2. Which Bolts are you referring to?


Cap is the reason the thunderbolts program continue dafter siege, because he believes in what it represents and the good it can do.




> The Kooky Quartet were brought in by the other Avengers as replacements. Cap didn't return until the others had joined and was essentially put in charge so he did no forgiving. Nor did any of them really do anything to harm him and his buddies (except maybe Hawkeye?).


he pushed for there memberships because he believed they could be reddemd they were all brought in at the same time



> Correct me if I'm mistaken but didn't Rulk and X-23 prove themselves as heroes before being "forgiven"? I'll give you Hand though, even if she had some compelling arguments for why she deserved forgiveness (all she was doing was working for HAMMER and trying to keep Osbourne and the psycho Avengers on track and heroic).


 Nope Rulk had Just tried to Take over the country, and X-23 hadn't even truly begun her path of redemption yet



> Wanda did nothing to make her deserve forgiveness other than blame it on the life force when all it essentially did was drive her mad(der) with power.


 Actually, she tried to undo Mday and brought Scott lang  back.



> Cyclops has an even greater scapegoat in the Phoenix Force which not only is a lot more to handle than the life force but actively corrupts its host (in best case scenarios and Cyclops is far from its first choice of hosts). Cyclops also didn't do anything villainous prior to becoming Phoenix to make him deserve judgement or jail time.


I didn't argue this, i could  point  out that trying to create  peace by force is still wrong but its inconsequential at this point, as  i've already said i don't think cyclops will be i n jail


----------



## Kanali (Sep 14, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Did you miss the part where  Hope Got the Phoenix said " I can't Control it, Kill me?" If any thing Stark bought them time.



It hadn't even possessed her yet, she should have been able to get it under control. I can't argue with whats on the page though. Although I can speculate that she would have had a greater chance of controlling it if she had been allowed to continue her training.



Zen-aku said:


> Cap is the reason the thunderbolts program continue dafter siege, because he believes in what it represents and the good it can do.



Cap didn't create the Thunderbolts program, nor did he allow any of its members during Osbourne's regime to stay on (with the exception of Ghost). He did no forgiving or pardoning, he just kept an old program going. 



Zen-aku said:


> I didn't argue this, i could  point  out that trying to create  peace by force is still wrong but its inconsequential at this point, as  i've already said i don't think cyclops will be i n jail



Aye, I know you didn't. I'm just saying that if Wanda can get completely exonerated of Disassembled and HoM by blaming it on the life force, Cyclops should be able to by blaming it on the Phoenix. All of his actions post-possession can be explained by the Phoenix.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 14, 2012)

Kanali said:


> It hadn't even possessed her yet, she should have been able to get it under control. I can't argue with whats on the page though. Although I can speculate that she would have had a greater chance of controlling it if she had been allowed to continue her training.


 Except the Story Clearly States she need to go to Kunlun





> Cap didn't create the Thunderbolts program, nor did he allow any of its members during Osbourne's regime to stay on (with the exception of Ghost). He did no forgiving or pardoning, he just kept an old program going.


 because he believes in redemption and felt it was needed,  And umm Moonstone?





> Aye, I know you didn't. I'm just saying that if Wanda can get completely exonerated of Disassembled and HoM by blaming it on the life force, Cyclops should be able to by blaming it on the Phoenix. All of his actions post-possession can be explained by the Phoenix.


yes. But at the same time Gillien says they were fully aware, and Emma sure as hell shows no remorse for what she did.so well just have to wait and see.


----------



## Amuro (Sep 14, 2012)

Man i just finished Whedons Astonishing X-Men 



that's some good shit right there. I hope to an imaginary deity that Scott and Emma are still an item post AvX, i love them as a couple. Where's the best point to continue from here in relation to other X books, i assume whatever was out around Second Coming? Not sure where Whedons run works time wise.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 14, 2012)

Amuro said:


> Man i just finished Whedons Astonishing X-Men
> 
> 
> 
> that's some good shit right there. I hope to an imaginary deity that Scott and Emma are still an item post AvX, i love them as a couple. Where's the best point to continue from here in relation to other X books, i assume whatever was out around Second Coming? Not sure where Whedons run works time wise.



IT takes place some time before Messiah complex cause like the first issue of fractions run [right after that event] was Wolverine and Kurt Taking colossus to Russia to help him mourn kitty.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)

Kanali stop headbutting that wall of bricks


Amuro said:


> Man i just finished Whedons Astonishing X-Men


----------



## Amuro (Sep 14, 2012)

Cheers for the help, back down the rabbit hole we go.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)

very ironic in retrospect that the bullet arc was called "unstoppable"


----------



## Amuro (Sep 14, 2012)

yeah from what i understand all it takes to stop it is someone who can bend spoons


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 14, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Literally the first thing Cap said to Wanda after Doom lost the life force and ported away was "You always have a home with us, once an Avenger always an Avenger" and she turns him down out of guilt.  This is the first time he's met her since HoM. And there were Avengers/heroes that knew she was still alive and where she was after HoM.



the children's crusade got pretty retarded towards the end... I mean wanda just left scot free, no punishment, no repercussions no nothing, in fact she even got her kids back.... I mean all she did was fuck up the whole planet and cause mutant-genocide after going on an insane rampage killed her teammates because she thought it would be a good fucking idea to make babies out of souls instead of fucking adopting children like a fucking normal human being. 

Now she's back on the avengers like nothing happened...  I couldn't support the avengers after seeing that and never gave a fuck about the x-men to begin with cause they had derpty derp ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) cycles leading them. As far as I'm concerned both sides are retards and so are everyone who paid for AXV no exceptions.


----------



## Hellion (Sep 14, 2012)

I like AvX  it brought us Dark Phoenix Scott "Slim" "Cyclops" Summers.

Also why not put Havok in the forefront since he and Scott have the I'm your brother you can't hurt me with your Powers clause.


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 14, 2012)

I also hope emma starts a relationship with namor after this.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 14, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> the children's crusade got pretty retarded towards the end... I mean wanda just left scot free, no punishment, no repercussions no nothing, in fact she even got her kids back.... I mean all she did was fuck up the whole planet and cause mutant-genocide after going on an insane rampage killed her teammates because she thought it would be a good fucking idea to make babies out of souls instead of fucking adopting children like a fucking normal human being.



CC was Retarded start to finish  Wolverine wanting to kill a kid with out a valid reason? Wonder man hanging out like he hadn't tried to kill them a week ago? and they  capped it off with Killing Cassie and Kid Vision and not bring  back KV because "he would be sad" madmad

All So Wanda could be an avenger again with out her having to really work for redemption!


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 14, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> CC was Retarded start to finish  Wolverine wanting to kill a kid? Wonder man hanging out like he hadn't tried to kill them a week ago? and they  capped it off with Killing Cassie and Kid Vision and not bring  back KV because "he would be sad" madmad
> 
> All So Wanda could be an avenger again with out her having to really work for redemption!



don't get me started on the rest of that comic... I was just covering wanda, the rest was stupid as well.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 14, 2012)

Pretty much killed the Young avengers as a Thing.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)

Dat art


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 14, 2012)

There is one thing that you can definitely like about AVX and that is UXM, which mirrors very well the internet discussion about it

It's the battle between a side that has transcended against a bunch of petty crap shovelers who will only find justification in circumstance rather than merit, and will shovel as much inane pork shit as they can to convince themselves that they are something otherwise than fact.

A side pathetically deafened to irony that isn't even worth breaking dinner over

And that is in it's way, poetic.
Imaginary mutant conflict notwithstanding


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 14, 2012)

Can Marvel Have Greg Pak write a Dr. Strange Ongoing?

Please?


----------



## Stan Lee (Sep 14, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I just didn't give a darn when Xavier died.=/


----------



## Es (Sep 14, 2012)

Zero Requiem said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I just didn't give a darn when Xavier died.=/



Why should we when he's died fucking 20 times already


----------



## Stan Lee (Sep 14, 2012)

Es said:


> Why should we when he's died fucking 20 times already



Its more of the fact that he was an asshole is reason why I just didn't give a darn. Him getting killed was self-defense in my eyes.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Sep 14, 2012)

More people are hating on avx, I am pleased


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 14, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> CC was Retarded start to finish  Wolverine wanting to kill a kid with out a valid reason? Wonder man hanging out like he hadn't tried to kill them a week ago? and they  capped it off with Killing Cassie and Kid Vision and not bring  back KV because "he would be sad" madmad
> 
> All So Wanda could be an avenger again with out her having to really work for redemption!



well no, I think that's just what he wanted to do with the story. I bet the vision death was editorially mandated, but not so much the rest


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 14, 2012)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> More people are hating on avx, I am pleased


mmm that coipel art though

he can even make havok's awful new costume (course his current one is shit too) look pretty good


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 15, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> mmm that coipel art though
> 
> he can even make havok's awful new costume (course his current one is shit too) look pretty good



Sigh more Emo Rouge, Can she go back to being a flirty brick please?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2012)

the hood doesn't necessarily mean she's emo lol. it's just a callback to her original look


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 15, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> the hood doesn't necessarily mean she's emo lol. it's just a callback to her original look



its a reference to how shes been written for years changed to match the movies and that crappy Evolution Cartoon.

I know shes not actually Emo i was being Factious, because she used to be allot of fun now shes all somber and boring.


----------



## Kanali (Sep 15, 2012)

Hellion said:


> I like AvX  it brought us Dark Phoenix Scott "Slim" "Cyclops" Summers.
> 
> Also why not put Havok in the forefront since he and Scott have the I'm your brother you can't hurt me with your Powers clause.



That only applies to the optic blasts, not the Phoenix powers.



Petes12 said:


> mmm that coipel art though
> 
> he can even make havok's awful new costume (course his current one is shit too) look pretty good



I'm getting real sick of the supposed leader of the Uncanny Avengers being the smallest figure tucked away in a corner. Just come out and say it, Havok is completely useless and is only on the team so that they can have a token Summers. Also his costume is godawful. They should have just left him, Rachel and Polaris in space and made a Starjammers ongoing.


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 15, 2012)

Zero Requiem said:


> Its more of the fact that he was an asshole is reason why I just didn't give a darn. Him getting killed was self-defense in my eyes.


To be honest I think it was bendis being an awful writer there, just look at some of caps dialogue... It's a sucky time to be x-men fan for sure if bendis is really going to be writing them from now on.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 15, 2012)

Here's the thing though, Xavier is well known for being a real scumbag despite his genuinely good intentions


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 15, 2012)

A man whose made dire ethical mistakes, and in his defense tries hard to overcome them, but has real no moral ground for being the asshat he was depicted to be in AvsX, and he knows it.
But once again, Bendis


----------



## shit (Sep 15, 2012)

I've realized something about bendis and aaron

bendis has cool ideas but isn't a very good writer
aaron is a very good writer but has stupid as shit ideas


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 15, 2012)

alot of readers seem to really hate the whole hell fire brats idea aaron's got going on in watxm. personally bachalo made them bearable to be.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 15, 2012)

Sad day for you if you don't like bachalo

I liked the part where Matt Murdock, the guy who just had a demon shoved up his ass last Tuesday clubs a shackled defenseless woman in the head who just had a massive attempt on her life by terrorists while in his custody

Lolbendis


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 15, 2012)

Maybe the blind guy just doesn't like blondes.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Sad day for you if you don't like bachalo
> 
> I liked the part where Matt Murdock, the guy who just had a demon shoved up his ass last Tuesday clubs a shackled defenseless woman in the head who just had a massive attempt on her life by terrorists while in his custody
> 
> Lolbendis



citation needed


----------



## Amuro (Sep 15, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> A man whose made dire ethical mistakes, and in his defense tries hard to overcome them, but has real no moral ground for being the asshat he was depicted to be in AvsX, and he knows it.
> But once again, Bendis



This, so many times this.

It's shown in Legacy. Chuck is a raging asshole, he  acknowledges it and is trying to make amends. Yet here he is back with his holier than thou attitude forcing Scott into a corner. 

"I'm ashamed of you!"


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 15, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> citation needed


New Avengers, lolbendis


Amuro said:


> This, so many times this.
> 
> It's shown in Legacy. Chuck is a raging asshole, he  acknowledges it and is trying to make amends. Yet here he is back with his holier than thou attitude forcing Scott into a corner.
> 
> "I'm ashamed of you!"



"You would have me lead you because I am a mutant? Why not make me the Lord of the Eyebrows society, for I have two of those as well! Make no mistake plebes, Namor transcends your petty details"


Flash forward

"BOW BEFORE THE MIGHT OF HOMO SUPERIOR FOR I WILL REMAKE THIS WORLD INTO MY IMAGE"


Dat quality writing


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 15, 2012)

Hunts down an innocent girl so he can stab her

"I gotta do what I gotta do"

See's a woman searching for her niece so she can help her with the phoenix

"I'M GLAD YOUR MOTHER IS DEAD SO SHE CAN'T SEE THIS

SHAME ON YOU RACHEL, YOU COULD HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE GREATS"


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 15, 2012)

Next week, the Marvel facebook game is going to do a Avengers Vs X-Men story ark, which I am very excited for, since I get to splooge my hard earned fortune into Collosus Emma Frost And Cyclops alternate Phoenix costumes

But in the promotional image there's a sleuth of comments where everyone is just hilaiously asking, and I quote
"Why is wolverine on the wrong side?"


I also like that you get bonus team up points if you select both Emma Frost and Jean Grey
Why?
Because there are 50 points for two X-men members
50 points for two telepaths (by the way, they are the only two telepaths in the game)
And another 50 points for Girls of Summer

that's right, you get bonus point if get Scott Summer's girlfriends in the same sack


----------



## creative (Sep 15, 2012)

this just in, the latest incredible hulk comic came out. it did not, I repeat, did not suck. that is all.


----------



## creative (Sep 15, 2012)

P.S. why is cable and the x-force a thing?


----------



## Id (Sep 15, 2012)

Anyword of the Sentry making a return in AvX?


----------



## Amuro (Sep 15, 2012)

I doubt he'll show up in the last issue to be honest.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 15, 2012)

Oh X-Force

"Do we kill evan"

"Oh no, _he's_ good"

"He might hurt people"

"Alright, we kill him"

"How about Daken"

"Wait a minute, that is my son, that's different"


----------



## creative (Sep 15, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Oh X-Force
> 
> "Do we kill evan"
> 
> ...



I recall wolverine being surprisingly gun-ho about offing his son this time around. then again snkit bub hasn't been written this well since greg rucka and that was what? 2003? 2004?



why does being a fan of rulk hurt so much?


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 15, 2012)

It's a loeb idea, so it's tainted from the start


----------



## Es (Sep 15, 2012)

>No Parker
>No interest


----------



## Kanali (Sep 15, 2012)

a creative color said:


> this just in, the latest incredible hulk comic came out. it did not, I repeat, did not suck. that is all.



Aye, now that Aaron is forced to straighten his shit out in order to make the transition into Waid, Hulk might stop being awful for a while.



Id said:


> Anyword of the Sentry making a return in AvX?



Why would he, it would add absolutely nothing. He'll chill in the sun a while longer.


----------



## Id (Sep 15, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Why would he, it would add absolutely nothing. He'll chill in the sun a while longer.



Exactly. I am just curious of the source of the rumor.


----------



## Es (Sep 15, 2012)

> Dale Keown's pencils from his and *Jeph Loeb's *Hulk & Wolverine story in "A+X" #1


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Sep 15, 2012)

a creative color said:


> P.S. why is cable and the x-force a thing?



Hey guys remeber in x0sanction where Cable says he'll come and help the X-men in avx? I DO BECAUSE I AM NOT THE TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC FOR MARVEL COMICS AKA I HAVE A MEMORY



Id said:


> Anyword of the Sentry making a return in AvX?



Why would you even ask this? What on earth makes you think he'll come back? Marvel will never bring him back



Banhammer said:


> Oh X-Force
> 
> "Do we kill evan"
> 
> ...



Cut him some slack, he just found out that he was responsible for weapon-x!


----------



## Es (Sep 15, 2012)

Really why the fuck is Loeb writing Maestro?


----------



## Amuro (Sep 15, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Oh X-Force
> 
> "Do we kill evan"
> 
> ...



I liked Betsy calling him out on his bullshit. I hope she kills Daken in a "oh i thought _you _didn't want to kill him" moment


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 15, 2012)

I liked Sabertooth calling him on his bullshit, and I hate sabertooth


----------



## tari101190 (Sep 15, 2012)

Wow, ok so hopefully this will replace Uncanny X-Force as my main book.

But if this is the guy who writes Deadpool then I will be a little worried.

And the artist isn't one I like very match.

Damn.

The cover and team roster is great though.


----------



## creative (Sep 15, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I liked Sabertooth calling him on his bullshit, and I hate sabertooth



Oh ban, everyone likes it when snkitbub is called out on his bullshit.

I'm more surprised that there isn't an event where the plot consists of everyone shitting on wolverine.  Wish I could find a title, I have it on the tip of my tongue.


----------



## creative (Sep 15, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> Wow, ok so hopefully this will replace Uncanny X-Force as my main book.
> 
> But if this is the guy who writes Deadpool then I will be a little worried.
> 
> ...



I sure Dillon will be replaced by issue five. My concern is where Parker is in al this mess. He played a major part in making big red and the thunderbolts relevant.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 15, 2012)

The roster is great? It's a loebian wet dream


----------



## Kanali (Sep 15, 2012)

Parker will still be writing Dark Avengers. Don't know if he'll be doing anything else.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 15, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Parker will still be writing Dark Avengers. Don't know if he'll be doing anything else.



Red She Hulk...which I won't be bothering with as I can't stand Betty


----------



## Es (Sep 15, 2012)

Do you doubt Parker Joker?


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 15, 2012)

I still don't know why they didn't shoehorn Atrocitus and the crimson dynamo while they were at it


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 15, 2012)

Amuro said:


> I liked Betsy calling him out on his bullshit. I hope she kills Daken in a "oh i thought _you _didn't want to kill him" moment



Wolverine has faith that evan wont go dark, its pretty clear he was agreeing with he not killing him part.


Any Way Isn't Sabertooth supposed to be working for the Hellfire Club, Isn't  joining a brother hood of mutants Contradictory?




Es said:


> Do you doubt Parker Joker?


With how shit thunderbolts became you can't blame anyone for that.


----------



## Es (Sep 15, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> With how shit thunderbolts became you can't blame anyone for that.


I hear the time travel arc was dragged out but he's hardly irredeemable 
I'm intending to start Dark Avengers.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 15, 2012)

Es said:


> Do you doubt Parker Joker?





Es said:


> I hear the time travel arc was dragged out but he's hardly irredeemable
> I'm intending to start Dark Avengers.



not irredemable no, but he is human like every other writer.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 15, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Wolverine has faith that evan wont go dark, its pretty clear he was agreeing with he not killing him part.
> 
> 
> Any Way Isn't Sabertooth supposed to be working for the Hellfire Club, Isn't  joining a brother hood of mutants Contradictory?
> ...



hey now I still like his Bolts/Dark Avengers (Though I am a stickler for more Man-Thing and Ghost)...it's just i'm not a fan of Betty and Parker has written her before as she appeared in a couple arcs of his hulk book


----------



## Es (Sep 15, 2012)

If he can make Rulk less of a Gary Stu think of the wonders he could do with her


----------



## shit (Sep 15, 2012)

I like the time travel stuffs


----------



## Es (Sep 15, 2012)

That's just what I've heard from others. I need to get back on it I miss having a regular buy from Marvel


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 15, 2012)

The Time travel stuff really isn't good Imo. and the Dark Avengers stuff is worse.


----------



## Es (Sep 15, 2012)

I like it because Skaar


----------



## shit (Sep 15, 2012)

The time travel stuff ties in with millar's ff thus your opinion is invalidated


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 15, 2012)

I just want Parker writing the thunderbolts and whoever made the cover on the art, then I can buy this book with no worries. The team can be so so cash and the drama can be good, and if Parker were to take off with the ideas that way talked about in the interview then this books would be a must buy, but I only hear bad things about Way, and Dillion's art is just not something  would bear for long


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 15, 2012)

shit said:


> The time travel stuff ties in with millar's ff thus your opinion is invalidated



You mean the Doom being an apprentice bs?

i thought that was rendered non-cannon.


----------



## shit (Sep 15, 2012)

Nope

So canon they had to lobotomize doom afterward


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 15, 2012)

shit said:


> Nope
> 
> So canon they had to lobotomize doom afterward


 ughhh  i hated that shit.



Blackfeather Dragon said:


> I just want Parker writing the thunderbolts and whoever made the cover on the art, then I can buy this book with no worries. The team can be so so cash and the drama can be good, and if Parker were to take off with the ideas that way talked about in the interview then this books would be a must buy, but I only hear bad things about Way, and Dillion's art is just not something  would bear for long


Way Is hit or miss. Wolverine Orgins sucked [except the Deadpool issues] sucked, But his astonishing Run Was Really fun and down right Heartwarming, he is the only writer to Ever write a Armor i liked.

Some People give his Deadpool run some crap, But their have been Really good moments in that [Deadpool Vs Bullseye, Dead, the Secret Invasion Tie-in and The X-men Cross over specifically].

Way Has a really well thought out premise and i am verry excited to see if he can pull it off.

I agree completely about Dillion. He works really well on some stuff [Punisher max] But this book needs some one with more Energy in there art.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 15, 2012)

Yeah, right Apocalypse is the one you get to have faith in

Fucking logic


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 15, 2012)

LTTP



> Writer Brian Michael Bendis said Xavier's death "felt very Shakespearean". "I don't always write in a very Shakespearean way but as I was putting the final touches on the scene and then when I saw the pencils I was quite surprised how large the tragedy truly felt."



The shade writes itself.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 15, 2012)

ghstwrld said:


> LTTP
> 
> 
> 
> The shade writes itself.



it was a well done Scene, And He did  a really good Build up/Foreshadow Via  the Avengers that featured him and the Illuminati issues, It was just Lessened by the fact  Xavier has died like 20 times, hes died more then Jean Fn Grey. Hell bendis even killed him of [kinda] in House of M.


----------



## Es (Sep 15, 2012)

ghstwrld said:


> LTTP
> 
> 
> 
> The shade writes itself.



Shakespearean, keep telling yourself that Bendis


----------



## shit (Sep 16, 2012)

omfg

uncanny x-men 18 literally explained away every terrible thing in/about avx

I love this event again


----------



## Es (Sep 16, 2012)

Fuck I need to pick that up


----------



## Blitzomaru (Sep 16, 2012)

I read it. Was kinda funny. And now Im gonna sound stupid cause I havne't actually read an X-Men comic in a decade, save a few here and there as tie-ins.

Last I remembered, Illyana was Collosus's kid sister, with no powers. That died. WTF is up with her now? She's a psycho bitch that can teleport and has a fire sword?


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 16, 2012)

Blitzomaru said:


> I read it. Was kinda funny. And now Im gonna sound stupid cause I havne't actually read an X-Men comic in a decade, save a few here and there as tie-ins.
> 
> Last I remembered, Illyana was Collosus's kid sister, with no powers. That died. WTF is up with her now? She's a psycho bitch that can teleport and has a fire sword?



Wikipedia would explain it better then any of us could.


----------



## Blitzomaru (Sep 16, 2012)

Goddam. I gave up after Limbo Storm and Shadowcat. That's a very retarded character...


----------



## Amuro (Sep 16, 2012)

ghstwrld said:


> LTTP
> 
> 
> 
> The shade writes itself.



It would have been better if it was actually clear that Scott killed Chuck. I didn't know he had killed him until i went on CBR and that was the headline.


----------



## shit (Sep 16, 2012)

it was pretty clear to me from scott crying


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 16, 2012)

It was a comic book death so who cares


And there isn't much that needs to be known from illyana except for

She's blond
She's russian
She's colossus syster
She has the mutant power to teleport through limbo similar to nightcrawler
She has a soul sword that can fuck up magic
She died of the legacy virus
She came back to life without a soul because an evil demon and house of m shenanigns
She fucked shit up bad so now everyone is sort of mistrusting of her


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 17, 2012)

shit said:


> omfg
> 
> uncanny x-men 18 literally explained away every terrible thing in/about avx
> 
> I love this event again



So excited for consequences, let the repairs commence!


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 17, 2012)

I hate this event, but UXM heals the crusty pile of bile that became my soul after reading it


----------



## Bergelmir (Sep 17, 2012)

So on a whim, I read Dr. Strange - Season One. And its pretty awesome. Pak did a great job there. I wouldn't mind sequels, if Marvel goes the Earth One route with these.

Are the other Season Ones books also good?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 17, 2012)

so Sam Humphries will be relaunching Uncanny X-Force...I'm okay with this, as I'm liking Fanboys Vs. Zombies and Higher Earth of his from Boom!

Though Storm being on the team makes no goddamn sense...


----------



## Kanali (Sep 17, 2012)

Here's the article 

Not interested in any of the characters so I'll stick to Cable's X-Force.


----------



## shit (Sep 17, 2012)

Hahahaha puck

Wuuuuut


----------



## Scarecrow Red (Sep 17, 2012)

I haven't been following AvX but after reading about #11 I all have to say is 'that's gay'.

With all the backlash that Bendis receives and he continues to do shit like that, I wonder why he is still in Marvel as one of the core writers.


----------



## Es (Sep 17, 2012)

Because somehow he manages to sell for some god unknown reason

Same with Loeb sadly


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 17, 2012)

Backlash is relative, especially in the Internet. Never ever take that one as if word from above.

Or else comic book fans are as much zombies as people make them out to be and will buy (or just check out, I don't see how that's any less especially for those who pirate) anything.


----------



## shit (Sep 17, 2012)

if you didn't read avx 11 then you wouldn't be able to follow uxm 18
thus it's worth twice the cover price for that privilege


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 17, 2012)

Oh yeah, shared universe.

You suck it up and take your chances with that if you like it enough.


----------



## creative (Sep 17, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> so Sam Humphries will be relaunching Uncanny X-Force...I'm okay with this, as I'm liking Fanboys Vs. Zombies and Higher Earth of his from Boom!
> 
> Though Storm being on the team makes no goddamn sense...



I'm liking what he's doing in the ultimates right now and our love is real made me bust a gut. his take over on x-force is uncanny to me, but there's always worse greg rucka leaving punisher. oh shit, spiral is going to be reverent!
call the fucking cops!!


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 18, 2012)

> It sounded so cool. Way back in 2007, Marvel announced CAGE!, an out-of-continuity mini-series celebrating Luke Cage in all his '70s Power Man glory. The book was to be written and drawn by Genndy Tartakovsky, the creative mastermind behind Dexter's Laboratory, Samurai Jack and Star Wars: The Clone Wars (the good version). As explained at the time, the series wasn't just going to serve up pulpy "blaxploitation" fun but would also take a "super-satirical look at 1970s Marvel comics... packed with plenty of nostalgic Marvel characters and costumes [and] loads of deliciously-dated pop culture references to boot!"
> 
> And then... nothing. Tartakovsky's plate filled up pretty fast; while fans waited for an update, he launched a new series on Cartoon Network (Sym-Bionic Titan) and then prepped a move to the big-screen. His theatrical debut, Hotel Transylvania, will arrive in theaters on Friday, September 28. And before he has a moment to catch his breath, he's already returned to the drawing board with an upcoming 3D movie version of Popeye.
> 
> ...


----------



## Parallax (Sep 19, 2012)

It will never come out 

ever


----------



## sanx021 (Sep 19, 2012)

So cyclops was right from the start to have faith in hope so this event has all been for nothing


----------



## Es (Sep 19, 2012)

Then this makes everyone look fucking more idiotic


----------



## Es (Sep 19, 2012)

So this is what's Ban was taklking about. Legit


----------



## shit (Sep 19, 2012)

ever since hope went to kun lun it's been obvs that the avengers did a complete 180 on their stance

they were proven wrong that hiding hope would do anything when the phoenix rejected her anyhow
it's their fault the phoenix embodied the x-men in the first place
and they were told off pretty nicely by reed richards when he said all they've been doing since is poking the phoenix with a stick

if they punish any of the phoenix 5, stark should be right there on the defense stand with them at least

the only really thing I'm interested in anymore is how all this will shake out as far as cap and scott's relationship
that should be pretty interesting


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2012)

Scarecrow Red said:


> I haven't been following AvX but after reading about #11 I all have to say is 'that's gay'.
> 
> With all the backlash that Bendis receives and he continues to do shit like that, I wonder why he is still in Marvel as one of the core writers.



its not like he came up with it on his own. it wasn't some big surprise to everyone else involved. marvel editorial and writers came up with the plot, then assigned issues for scripting a plot already laid out.


----------



## shit (Sep 19, 2012)

bendis has been getting more than his share of issues to write

he did 9 and 11, not to mention all the avengers tie ins

they bring on this bendis fatigue themselves


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 19, 2012)

Parallax said:


> It will never come out
> 
> ever


----------



## Parallax (Sep 19, 2012)

for what it's worth I wish it would, I would pick it up in a heartbeat


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 19, 2012)

Everything burns is the only event anyone should ever talk about


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 19, 2012)

So Avengers was a thirty page hissy fit between Hawkeye and Spider-woman over punching mooks and making jokes over five shield agents dead bodies

Bendis


----------



## Es (Sep 19, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> So Avengers was a thirty page hissy fit between Hawkeye and Spider-woman over punching mooks and making jokes over five shield agents dead bodies
> 
> Bendis



Sounds like him

How many voice bubbles did it have?

We should have a Bendis drinking Game


----------



## Kanali (Sep 19, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> So Avengers was a thirty page hissy fit between Hawkeye and Spider-woman over punching mooks and making jokes over five shield agents dead bodies
> 
> Bendis



God that issue sucked. This was a disappointing week. Only X-Factor was enjoyable and even that wasn't as enjoyable as usual.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 19, 2012)

Awkward ending for what should be an exciting yet out of nowhere concept


----------



## creative (Sep 19, 2012)

Es said:


> Sounds like him
> 
> How many voice bubbles did it have?
> 
> We should have a Bendis drinking Game



most of use would die within 2 or so issues.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 19, 2012)

so according to the solicits Amazing Spider-Man, Wolverine, and Captain America and _insert other character_ are ending in december.

good riddance to Captain America Team Up


----------



## Parallax (Sep 19, 2012)

There was a Wolverine and Captain A team up series?


----------



## creative (Sep 19, 2012)

Parallax said:


> There was a Wolverine and Captain A team up series?



More of a "captain and blank" team up book.


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Sep 20, 2012)

IMO, DC is easily the better of the two companies in terms of the amount of great artists they have, but I think Jim Cheung may be my favourite overall guy in either company right now. While Olivier Coipel is pretty great too, I still think Cheung is the one guy in Marvel who I would take over Ivan Reis, Jim Lee, Phil Jimenez etc. Anyway, I was wondering what your views are on the guy?

Also, what do you guys think of Ed Brubaker as a writer?


----------



## Blitzomaru (Sep 20, 2012)

Spider-men ended pretty meh to me. Too much Ultimates, not enough of both Spider-men. And Miles seemed like a background character throughout the event. Wasnt till he took out Mysterio that I remember he was there...


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 20, 2012)

So AvX has made it's way into the facebook game

Here's the plot, the phoenix force is coming to earth, but after an encounter with the game's cosmic macguffin Meteor Rocks Unobutanium, it splintered and entered the bodies of Scott Summers, Magik, Collosus, Emma Frost and Jean Grey

It is possible that they want to use the power to improove their conditions, as a group that has faced extinction once or twice before, but Nick Fury and Maria Hill are afraid that they have no guarantees the power will be used wisely, and that magneto or the brotherhood could find a way to control the hosts


Tony Stark wants to negotiate, but is concerned that the phoenix cares for nothing but change, be it consuming planets or making people crazy

While Fury is staying out of it to remain neutral, he is however sending Us (agent) because by now we have a positive history with both teams, and they trust us with the on field responsibility of decisions that can't be made from a helicarrier center

Our mission is to keep things cool and pull everyone in the same direction




OH MY FUCKING GOD, KILL ME NOW


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 20, 2012)

Then you get to pick a side

Naturally I picked X-Men

Scott Summers tell me he does not wish to fight, but he finds  unaccpetable for the avengers to be calling all the shots

He considers the phoenix a chance to control their own destiny and survival

Frost believes that if they can handle all the power, they can actually control all of the global chaos generated by the cosmic macguffin

they are concerned of the threats the brotherhood has been raising, but even more so about the avengers, who want the force to be handed, as if they even could do so

Magik believes the avengers want the x-men to hand themselves over to goverment control, to which the mutants are terrified of

Meanwhile, while we are asked to help, Emma takes a glance on our brain and makes sure there is no intention for us to betray them


OH MY FUCKING GOD, THIS IS A FACEBOOK GAME AND IT'S BETTER THAN BENDIS


----------



## Es (Sep 20, 2012)

:hestonlaugh


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 20, 2012)

Anti Mutant riots begin to pop up all over the place

We deploy someone to control things, but to be careful because we are to be the good guys

A rogue test subject is setting on fire in San Francisco and we deploy someone to caputre him while the fire fighters try to wrangle some control

Juggernaut comes and demands unity, but Frost scoffs at him as a Magneto puppet who isn't even a proper mutant to be using that rallying cry


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 20, 2012)

Upon Juggernaut's defeat Scott states that he hopes that sends Magneto the message Mutants aren't rolling up for him any quicker than they will the Avengers

Still playing


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 20, 2012)

the avengers are on utopia's doorstep, so the x-men send Storm to make their case to professor Xavier

I don't have Storm, so I'll have to let you now how that is suposed to turn out later


----------



## sanx021 (Sep 20, 2012)

Sounds so much better than the comic


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 20, 2012)

At some point, Hawkeye and Black Widdow present themselves on Utopia, but Scott wants to defer visitors

He requests for us to kindly inform them of it.

Kindly, but firmly

Emma Frost tells them to leave their beach

Hawkeye says he's here to talk

Scott says they could talk anywhere, and calls them out on pretending it's not a show of force

Natasha tells them to stop using the Phoenix Force like a toy

Emma decides to prove her self control in her unique way

You battle them, and THEY ARE HARD, juiced on anti-phoenix unobutonium meteor rocks

Emma declares she has probably convinced them that the Phoenix isn't a toy, but is concerned about their super juice

Scott Emma and the Agent proceed to plan to go to the avengers mansion and learn more about it


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 20, 2012)

As a counter to the avengers statement of force, scott designates Collosus and Magik to go lead a delegation to the avengers mansion 
Scott thinks it is time mutants are no longer a S.H.I.E.L.D. asset, and wants them to convey the message that they will now act in their own interest

Once they arrive on the area, Scott tells Collosus to knock politely, and notes asgardian presence, by which he doesn't mean Thor



He believes that if they save new york from the jotun, thor and the like will be more open to friendly talks and tell them about the macguffin


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 20, 2012)

meanwhile there is an option to deploy kitty pride to gather information while the avengers are distracted, to see if the avengers really just want to fight

I do not have kitty pride


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 20, 2012)




----------



## Charl55es (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm kind of interested in seeing how well they do bring the X-Men world into Avengers.


----------



## shit (Sep 20, 2012)

ban are you trying to get to 50k posts or something?

I can't believe you'd honestly think anyone else gives a shit about that game


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 20, 2012)

It's not about the game

It's about the much better story line, of the same concept on a free lame ass facebook game.


----------



## shit (Sep 20, 2012)

it makes me think tho

reed richards should've tried to take the phoenix 5 under his wing and direct their actions more

they had a desire to do right, mostly, but they completely lost their way, and reed could've directed them to do other things than put crab legs on whales

he could've also tried to broker peace between the two sides, especially in the case of wakanda

yet again all of this is reed richards' fault


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 21, 2012)

double specially in the case of wakanda considering it was Namor who lost his shit


----------



## shit (Sep 21, 2012)

the ole duck and dodge the blame, classic richards move


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 21, 2012)

Well, he did tell everyone to cut the fuck out with the unprovoked attacks on utopia


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 21, 2012)

I took a peak over at the avengers side of the story line

On beginning of Act 1 the avengers discover that the macguffin has a dampening effect on the force and they come to SF where they see the test subjects runing amok, and decide to clean up a little.

On beginning of act II they note the arrival of the romanov brothers, but they are concerned Loki is behind the jotun excursion, be it for his own angle on the phoenix or just general mayhem
Rogers is wary of the romanov are here to do, and stark tells him he will follow the advice of T'Chala, and stay two steps ahead of his enemies, and three ahead of his friends

Meanwhile, in the X-Men side, while the X-Men are clearing up Jotun reporters are camping out on the mansion demanding to know why SHIELD isn't getting involved in the Phoenix issue, and telegenic x-men and avengers are being sent for sound bites

Between the battles they notice the Enchantress seems to be the one dragging the jotun around, and she is preparing some sort of massive spell at the mansion, which they want to intervene on

Before the fight, she implies she has been preparing some sort of love juju to fuck with Thor

Henry McCoy is dismayed at both his friends struggle and decides to thrust himself in the lab for research


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 21, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> double specially in the case of wakanda considering it was Namor who lost his shit



Actually, yeah.

The moment they saw that Namor got phoenix power Reed should have been expecting Namor to go nuts and fly off the handle.

Frankly, EVERYONE should have expected namor to go nuts like he did, its practically his shtick.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 21, 2012)

The worse thing is that the one person who knew something like would probably happen if you pissed off the Phoenix with your governmental power was

Drum roll

The Black Panther


----------



## shit (Sep 21, 2012)

I wonder if we'll ever find out if wakanda was really keeping that mutant chick prisoner or not


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 21, 2012)

So... Can anyone tell me what's disturbing about this cover?


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 21, 2012)

Hint, it's the irony


----------



## Parallax (Sep 21, 2012)

it's the price tag


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 21, 2012)

The Aryan ubermensh brotherhood rising for the Red Skull aren't doing anything for you?


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 21, 2012)

The Red Skull needs a blue and star-studded tie there.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 21, 2012)

I hear you banhammer and I did noticed that 

but that price point


----------



## Kanali (Sep 21, 2012)

Considering the Aryan ubermenchen on the Uncanny Avengers team, Red Skull ought to be applying for membership instead of fighting them. Maybe he's mad they declined his application.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 21, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Considering the Aryan ubermenchen on the Uncanny Avengers team, Red Skull ought to be applying for membership instead of fighting them. Maybe he's mad they declined his application.



I guess they figured the european red motifed genocidal maniac role was already filled by the scarlet witch


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 21, 2012)

In Brightest Day! said:


> IMO, DC is easily the better of the two companies in terms of the amount of great artists they have, but I think Jim Cheung may be my favourite overall guy in either company right now. While Olivier Coipel is pretty great too, I still think Cheung is the one guy in Marvel who I would take over Ivan Reis, Jim Lee, Phil Jimenez etc. Anyway, I was wondering what your views are on the guy?
> 
> Also, what do you guys think of Ed Brubaker as a writer?



cheung is pretty good for sure. but I like coipel more and disagree a bit that dc have better artists. let's see chris bachalo, coipel, cheung, lienil francis yu, scottie young, humberto ramos, steve micneven... all great marvel artists, my favorites are coipel, yu, sometimes chueng and bachalo is my favorite artist right now. 

dc's got greg capullo, dustin nguyen, frank quitely, jim lee, adam hughes, ivan reis, sean gordon murphy, Rafael Albuquerque, Amanda Conner, francis manapul. While admit these dc artists are great I personally only like greg capullo, rafael albuquerque, sean murphy, haven't been feeling jim lee lately though, he's gone kinda stale  

I'd buy anything drawn by bachalo... dc just doesn't have that.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 21, 2012)

Coipel and Cheung are masterful even if their faces don't completely appeal to me.

I agree with Narutossss about Marvel's artistic dominance. I love Jim Lee as much as other people dislike him on principle but his current work isn't as relevant as it used to be.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 21, 2012)

Marvel has whomever drew Sinister London

I'm still have eye-gasms


----------



## shit (Sep 21, 2012)

wait, does this mean gillen's continuing with loki?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 21, 2012)

I prefer DC when it comes to artists, mainly because they have a fair amount of artists who can actually do more than 4-5 issues in a row. Coipel, Cheung, and Mcniven are fantastic, but are any of them capable/willing to do ongoings at this point? 

Marvel's double shipping has pretty much killed the creative team over there, to the point where I take all of their announcements with a big grain of salt.

DC's big names do have the occasional fill ins though.

EDIT: Admittedly some marvel titles go from good artist to good artist to good artist, but I miss the days when we could get 20 issues of a series and have 80% of them done by the same writer and artist.


----------



## shit (Sep 21, 2012)

can't believe no one's mentioning acuna


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 21, 2012)

shit said:


> wait, does this mean gillen's continuing with loki?



Not just him but Wiccan and Captain Wonder Woman Girl


----------



## shit (Sep 21, 2012)

wait, gillen's writing that?

yay!


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 21, 2012)

LOL @Acu?a.

Sometimes he does absolutely nothing for me, something it's revelatory.


----------



## shit (Sep 21, 2012)

revelatory

my spellcheck says that's not a word


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 21, 2012)

shit said:


> revelatory
> 
> my spellcheck says that's not a word



 tells me it is, shit.

As an English language learner who sometimes helps his own mother about it, I sometimes try to be sure about it.


----------



## shit (Sep 21, 2012)

touche

I still don't know what you mean by his art being revelatory tho

what does it reveal to you?


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 21, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I prefer DC when it comes to artists, mainly because they have a fair amount of artists who can actually do more than 4-5 issues in a row. Coipel, Cheung, and Mcniven are fantastic, but are any of them capable/willing to do ongoings at this point?
> 
> Marvel's double shipping has pretty much killed the creative team over there, to the point where I take all of their announcements with a big grain of salt.
> 
> ...


I agree, most artists at marvel always have fill ins all the fucking time, it's impossible to find a bachalo book with out fill in artists, heck he's got fill ins inside the issues he draws, it's fucking frustrating. 

bite you've got good taste, the dude that draws Luther Strode is swag.


----------



## shit (Sep 21, 2012)

I've heard DC has trouble keeping artists, according to the owner of my lcs

maybe the fact marvel tries to not put as much pressure on one artist is a reason they don't have that stigma


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 21, 2012)

shit said:


> touche
> 
> I still don't know what you mean by his art being revelatory tho
> 
> what does it reveal to you?



That great storytelling paired with great art still exists in these hard event laden superhero comics days.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't elaborate as someone who more or less abandoned following the weekly grind of current comics, but I think Gillen is a writer on the rise.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 21, 2012)

shit said:


> wait, gillen's writing that?
> 
> yay!



It's the reason why I didn't say anything about it

It's a gillen. I'm going to pay for it. Period.


----------



## Kanali (Sep 21, 2012)

Final Point One teaser pictures


*Spoiler*: __ 









Looks like Forge in some kind of mechanical place for Cable and X-Force and a kid holding Starlord's gun for Guardians of the Galaxy.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 21, 2012)

Probably Tian

Or Cable's old city


----------



## shit (Sep 21, 2012)

delving into the background of character stories of the cast of cable's x-force would be pretty interesting since I know little about any of them

I never used to like cable as a kid so avoided everything with him in it


----------



## Es (Sep 21, 2012)

MVC and X-Men animated made him look cool to me


----------



## shit (Sep 21, 2012)

his backstory put me off actually

scott and jean's kid?

from the future?

here to stay?

with a metal arm and one glowing eye but no optic blast?

pffffffffffff











plus x-man was the lamest thing about age of apocalypse


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 21, 2012)




----------



## Petes12 (Sep 22, 2012)

i highly recommend doctor strange season one


----------



## Kanali (Sep 22, 2012)

shit said:


> his backstory put me off actually
> 
> scott and jean's kid?
> 
> ...



He's Scott and Madelyn's son who was infected with the techno-organic virus by Apocalypse so they had to send him to the future with a future version of Rachel. Scott and Jean went into the future to raise him, then eventually he came back as a middle aged man with a glowing eye (the eye is artificial and it glows when he uses his powers due to a vestigal off shot of his dads genes). His left side is infected with the virus so he has a metal arm. And he can't use his telepathy/telekinesis (usually) because he has to focus all his powers on keeping the virus from consuming him.

There are a hell of a lot worse back stories.

And yes, X-Man sucks.


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 22, 2012)

I hate how all these marvel characters end up being related to scott... facepalm.jpg


----------



## sanx021 (Sep 22, 2012)

Scott is awesome don't know what your problem with him is


----------



## Kanali (Sep 22, 2012)

sanx021 said:


> Scott is awesome don't know what your problem with him is



This. Scott and the Summers have game, they can't help it if the bitches keep throwing themselves at them.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 22, 2012)

Except for Vulcan


----------



## shit (Sep 22, 2012)

ESPECIALLY vulcan


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 22, 2012)

I can imagine AvsX going very diffrently if phoenix vulcan was around


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 22, 2012)

no!! scott is a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


----------



## Kanali (Sep 22, 2012)

shit said:


> ESPECIALLY vulcan



This. I love Vulcan. He's a childish asshole and I love him for it. 

And I don't think any Summers had as much game as the Emperor of an interstellar empire.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 22, 2012)

And his bird skank


----------



## sanx021 (Sep 22, 2012)

Alex summers is the only Summers I don't like and X-man  depending on the writer


----------



## Kanali (Sep 22, 2012)

I liked Alex during War of Kings. He's been awful in everything else I've read with him.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 22, 2012)




----------



## Banhammer (Sep 22, 2012)

Kanali said:


> I liked Alex during War of Kings. He's been awful in everything else I've read with him.



Girlfriend is on a catatonic traumatic state?
Whine about your own personal failures and thank Wanda for wiping out the mutant race


----------



## Kanali (Sep 22, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Girlfriend is on a catatonic traumatic state?
> Whine about your own personal failures and thank Wanda for wiping out the mutant race



Truly Cap is choosing well in making him the face of mutantkind.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 22, 2012)

You know, there's one thing you can admire as well done and written in this event.

Hope trains martial arts
Avengers declare themselves a global authority
Avengers invade city state with overwhelming force
The avengers try to murder and kidnap hope 
Scott believes with the power of faith, that hope is the one meant to save them from extinction
X-Men run and re-strategize
Conflicts ensure
Stark tries to meddle with a power he does not understand

X-Men declare themselves a global authority
X-Men invade a city state with over whelming force
X-Men demand a little girl
Avengers run and re-strategize
Stark believes with the power of faith, that hope is the one meant to save them from extinction
Hope trains some more martial arts.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 22, 2012)

Irony wise, it is the best event evah


----------



## Id (Sep 22, 2012)

shit said:


> plus x-man was the lamest thing about age of apocalypse



Nonsense!


----------



## Es (Sep 23, 2012)

So yeah....


----------



## shit (Sep 23, 2012)

I had almost forgotten about that...

another exercise in seeing a top tier artist completely wasted on loeb tripe


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 24, 2012)

mcguinness seems to really like working with loeb. 

so that's a guy made of diamonds with a diamond icon on his belt. ok.


----------



## Es (Sep 24, 2012)

Dimondhead's been one of Nova's villains


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 24, 2012)

Looks like a particularly fabulous crystal Gyle is going apeshit on chibi nova.

Loeb. I wonder what delightful tragedy about unresolved issues with Nova Senior this book will bring.

I mean could nu nova not be an impulsive rebelious teenager with an attitude? Shudder the thought


----------



## creative (Sep 24, 2012)

it's more likely that nu nova will act more like the animated ultimate spider-man. so yeah, brace yourselves for terrible shit.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 24, 2012)

or... i just won't read it


----------



## shit (Sep 24, 2012)

dropped so hard I can't even lift


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 25, 2012)

no worries emma, namor's gonna be popping over to visit you too from now on.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 27, 2012)

Journey into Mystery is more than a story, or an event or anything
It's a symphony of beauty


----------



## E (Sep 27, 2012)

i was drunk when i read JiM so i gotta read it again

and i did the deed, finished the current wolverine arc, oh man what a piece of shit, i hope the bunn guy does better stories

also glad the little piece of shit alpha lost his powers, i hope he never appears ever again


----------



## shit (Sep 27, 2012)

E said:


> and i did the deed, finished the current wolverine arc, oh man what a piece of shit, i hope the bunn guy does better stories



even if he doesn't, the series will end in a couple months anyway


----------



## Kanali (Sep 27, 2012)

There's no way they won't re-launch it. Marvel can't live without Wolverine in all of their titles.


----------



## E (Sep 27, 2012)

shit said:


> even if he doesn't, the series will end in a couple months anyway


i wouldnt mind, i have a shitload of stuff i read as it is

and speaking snikt bub, this week's wolverine academy was pretty good, and by pretty good i mean dat allred art, it's a shame it was just for this one issue


----------



## Kanali (Sep 27, 2012)

Aye the art was the best its ever been on this series. I even smiled at one point which is the opposite of what I usually do when reading Wolverine and the Useless Character Squad.  

I liked that someone finally referenced Sabretooth ruling East Asian crime. Feels like everyone forgot about it for months.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 29, 2012)

i wonder why no one mentions the delicious irony of Evan being kidnapped at the jean grey institute of mood rings and hydroponics


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 29, 2012)

Kanali said:


> *Aye the art was the best its ever been on this series*. I even smiled at one point which is the opposite of what I usually do when reading Wolverine and the Useless Character Squad.
> 
> I liked that someone finally referenced Sabretooth ruling East Asian crime. Feels like everyone forgot about it for months.



just to clarify you're talking about watxm right?  no, just no... negged.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 29, 2012)

It's no worse than Bachallo


----------



## Kanali (Sep 29, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> just to clarify you're talking about watxm right?  no, just no... negged.



I'd take a 5 year olds crayon drawings over Bachalo's garbage.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 29, 2012)

Now, now, bachallo has lots of fans which is respectable, it's just that it's not for everyone


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 29, 2012)

Kanali said:


> I'd take a 5 year olds crayon drawings over Bachalo's garbage.





Banhammer said:


> Now, now, bachallo has lots of fans which is respectable, it's just that it's not for everyone



of course bachalo has lots of fans, his excellent work on shade, death(sandman), genx/next, steampunk, x-men and spider-man is more than deserving of the fans he has and of course he's not for everyone but he's better than most


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 29, 2012)

how anyone can hate on chris I don't know, his work is so swag...


----------



## shit (Sep 29, 2012)

I like him on a random issue a lot

but when he's on a running series, I quickly get tired of him since his work tends to be really jumbled and chaotic, and it's not easy to figure out what's going on in every panel

maybe if he kept his paneling to a standard format, all square and all relatively uniform, it wouldn't be so bad

also he has a problem with same-face
most artists do, but him more than others
everyone looks like an asian

he does a great iceman though, I gotta say
everyone should copy his iceman


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 29, 2012)

what shit said


----------



## Kanali (Sep 29, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> how anyone can hate on chris I don't know, his work is so swag...



I'll admit he has some kickass stuff but I go crazy from staring at it for more than a few issues. I can see how he has fans but his style is not for me.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2012)

Kanali said:


> I'd take a 5 year olds crayon drawings over Bachalo's garbage.



get out


----------



## Es (Sep 29, 2012)

Ban let the hate flow trough you


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 29, 2012)

Wolverine: yes let us mourn the man who has died or has faked his death countless times before hand and will be sure to be back within only a matter of months


----------



## shit (Sep 29, 2012)

I remember this funeral


----------



## Kanali (Sep 29, 2012)

Wolvie's eulogy will be :

"See ya next event Chuck, say hi to my kids in hell".


----------



## Kanali (Sep 29, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> get out



I hate Aaron too. Come get me internet.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L397TWLwrUU[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 29, 2012)

It is only fitting that the first x-men delivers the eulogy of the MLK of mutants


----------



## Kanali (Sep 29, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> It is only fitting that the first x-men delivers the eulogy of the MLK of mutants



I thought the world collectively agreed to pretend that never happened.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Sep 29, 2012)

OH MY GALACTUS THIS IS AMAZING I THOUGHT SOME OTHER TALENTLESS HACK WAS GOING TO STEAL MARVEL'S BEST CHARACTER AT THE MOMENT AND RUIN HIM LIKE THEY ALWAYS DO BUT THEY'RE STILL LETTING GILLEN WRITE HIM *GIRLISH LAUGH*


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 29, 2012)

I KNOW RIGHT?


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 29, 2012)

theregoesallmymoneyever.jpg


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 30, 2012)

Bachalo can be really chaotic nowadays but he drew Bullseye stabbing Venom in the eye with a poodle dog so I'm cool with him.


----------



## creative (Sep 30, 2012)

Oh my lord. I know I jumping the boat abit late here but can I have a new representative for the blue team on the x-men since marvel is hell bent to make cyclops look more and more like an incompetent asshole?

some one more like...stay with me now. ultimate-verse kitty pryde?


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 30, 2012)

a creative color said:


> Oh my lord. I know I *jumping the boat abit late here* but can I have a new representative for the blue team on the x-men since marvel is hell bent to make cyclops look more and more like an *incompetent asshole?*



I don't know if I'm even later than you since I've been more of an Avengers than X-Men guy for a few years now (thank you trade waiting) but I wasn't aware this color X-system was still meaningful.

As for the Cyclops demonizing, that's something I'm even less willing to catch up on, because it sounds shrill and perhaps fleeting, petty and subject to editorial revisionism.


----------



## Kanali (Sep 30, 2012)

They refused to go all out on making Cyclops a villain so instead he ends up being entirely justified in everything he did and yet every Marvel character will still hate his guts which will make them seem like shallow assholes. It'll be Schism all over again when Cyclops ends up being completely right and yet we're still supposed to believe that fucking Wolverine is morally justified in leaving.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 30, 2012)

The worse part is how they keep trying to make a main course out of mustard with wolverine


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 30, 2012)

But I'll endure a million AvsX as long as Gillen is forever around


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 30, 2012)

Kanali said:


> They refused to go all out on making Cyclops a villain so instead he ends up being entirely justified in everything he did and yet every Marvel character will still hate his guts which will make them seem like shallow assholes. It'll be Schism all over again when Cyclops ends up being completely right and yet we're still supposed to believe that fucking Wolverine is morally justified in leaving.



you keep saying this but I just can't see it, cycles has been no more a prick that anyone on the avengers and I clearly can't see what's right in using cosmic level power to make the world a mutant paradise, especially since he *knows* what happened the last time a mutant tried to do that, which funny enough is the cause of all this. He's a twat, plain and simple


----------



## Kanali (Sep 30, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> you keep saying this but I just can't see it, cycles has been no more a prick that anyone on the avengers and I clearly can't see what's right in using cosmic level power to make the world a mutant paradise, especially since he *knows* what happened the last time a mutant tried to do that, which funny enough is the cause of all this. He's a twat, plain and simple



Except for the fact that Cyclops wanted to put the cosmic power in its destined host, not have it for himself.  Like you said, having the Phoenix makes you kinda crazy so everything post-possession can and will be explained away as him being corrupted by the Phoenix, thus exonerating him of all of his actions. Why do you think everyone totally loves Jean after she consumed an entire solar system populated by billions of intelligent lifeforms?

If the Avengers had their way the Phoenix would have barrelled through Earth and destroyed it on its way to Hope. Then Hope would be all alone off world with an omniversal entity.

And Wanda wasn't trying to create a utopia. She was trying to make her family and friends happy. Unless Apocalypse brutally ruling and enslaving the entirety of North Africa is Wanda's idea of a utopia.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 30, 2012)

That prick cyclops, saving and restoring the health of people who try to kill him five minutes later out of the moral righteousness of his heart. He's a total douchebag, the way he took the phoenix from emma just when she was about to unleash her true strength and wipe out the earth


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## Banhammer (Sep 30, 2012)

Nothing like good guy Murdock, who clubs a defenseless bound woman in the head during an assassination attempt on her life, after a whole bunch of issues where they all gather around in a wank circle wondering ARE THE AVENGERS WORTHY OF THE DAREDEVIL


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## Kanali (Sep 30, 2012)

Verily, Saint Logan the Child Stabber, Lord Stark the Life Obliterator and Professor America the Dragon Poker are the heroes of this story.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 30, 2012)

Don't forget the Hulk, like, he was a thing


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## Banhammer (Sep 30, 2012)

If only there was a villain they could all conveniently blame for manipulating them into this situation.
Or maybe even two. Or three


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## shit (Sep 30, 2012)

well, we should all keep in mind that every ignorant comment and action in this event was perpetrated by bendis


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## Banhammer (Sep 30, 2012)

And thus why you will probably see the x-men acting like total ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) this time next year, probably over the corpse of orphans and cheeseburgers


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## shit (Sep 30, 2012)

hickman, gillen, and remender writing avenger character books

bendis and aaron writing x-men character books

yeah I can't see the x-men coming out ahead in this deal


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## Banhammer (Sep 30, 2012)

I can barely wait for Bendis to do to Sinister what he did to Doom


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## Kanali (Sep 30, 2012)

That is the most in-character Doom I have ever seen.

Truly, the X-Men are in good hands.


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## shit (Sep 30, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I can barely wait for Bendis to do to Sinister what he did to Doom



finally the zen-aku's of the world will be satisfied


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## Banhammer (Sep 30, 2012)

I can see Sinister now

Damned yankees, I am going to pop a bloody cap up their ass


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## Banhammer (Sep 30, 2012)

after a whole issue of everyone wondering if the Illuminati are worthy enough of wolverine


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## creative (Sep 30, 2012)

jesus christ.


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## Narutossss (Sep 30, 2012)

question, if the x-men sales had a sudden bump from bendis writing them... how would you react?


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## Es (Sep 30, 2012)

I wouldn't give a shit becuse fuck Bendis


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## Banhammer (Sep 30, 2012)

Question, if Bibles suddenly got  a boost in sale because of witch hunters and gay burning evangelists how would you react?


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## Es (Sep 30, 2012)

Really I don't even get why he sells anymore. He reuses plot, ignores characterization, drags shit out ect. And I used to like him when I started on New Avengers, it's like as soon as we got done with Siege (Perhaps earlier) he stopped giving a fuck


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## Banhammer (Sep 30, 2012)

I don't think he sells, I think Quesada's model sells, and the fact that he got this whole event machine started right around the dawn of mainstreaming of the internet helped a million to keep the fandom engines going

People keep harping on how he just so well but truth is, we may never know the true extent of the damage he made to the buisness


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## Banhammer (Sep 30, 2012)

Because if there is one thing no one can ever take away from Quesada, is that he does great buisness


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## LIL_M0 (Sep 30, 2012)

Invincible Iron Man, that is all.


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## Narutossss (Oct 1, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Because if there is one thing no one can ever take away from Quesada, is that he does great buisness



nobody is gonna remember him for that though...


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## creative (Oct 1, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> nobody is gonna remember him for that though...



That's the joke.


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## Prinz Porno (Oct 2, 2012)

That's it ? So no more Phoenix?


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## shit (Oct 2, 2012)

current jean is back

past jean is coming

finally, a pair of jeans


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## Kanali (Oct 2, 2012)

So.... basically, Marvel was lying through their teeth.

They promised the X-Men and Avengers wouldn't team up to fight the Phoenix. Thats exactly what happened.

They promised Jean wouldn't come back. Thats exactly what happened.

Wow.


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## shit (Oct 2, 2012)

I don't remember them promising that stuff


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## Kanali (Oct 2, 2012)

They did both during and before AvX.


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## Narutossss (Oct 2, 2012)

you didn't actually believe marvel would uphold the promises they make do you...  lol


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## Thor (Oct 2, 2012)

I thought that was Hope.


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## Michael Lucky (Oct 2, 2012)

that wasnt hope?


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## Kanali (Oct 2, 2012)

Marvel raped my innocence. I can never trust a comic book company again.


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## Michael Lucky (Oct 2, 2012)

oh well, i kinda expected hope and jean as the same person when i read messiah war, like some reincarnation or something


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 2, 2012)

So... am I alone in thinking that the Avengers started this mess and Cyclops is going to take most of the blame?

Also, in Round 11 Captain America says that Cyclops is under arrest for Crimes against Humanity. When did he commit Crimes against Humanity?


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## Narutossss (Oct 2, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> So... am I alone in thinking that the Avengers started this mess and Cyclops is going to take most of the blame?
> 
> Also, in Round 11 Captain America says that Cyclops is under arrest for Crimes against Humanity. When did he commit Crimes against Humanity?



a few posters here agree with you. Cyclops *should* take most of the blame 
the captain america line is just bendis being bendis.....


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## Kanali (Oct 2, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> So... am I alone in thinking that the Avengers started this mess and Cyclops is going to take most of the blame?
> 
> Also, in Round 11 Captain America says that Cyclops is under arrest for Crimes against Humanity. When did he commit Crimes against Humanity?



Nope, its incredibly bad storytelling.

Never, it was just an awful line. How Cap was going to arrest an omniversal god is beyond me.


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 2, 2012)

^Yeah. Maybe he'll put him in Phoenix repressing handcuffs. And even more than that, Cyclops hasn't commit any Crimes against Humanity. Until they were repeatedly provoked by the X-Men the Phoenix Men were only doing good things. Even by Round 11 Cyclops is more sympathetic and heroic than the Avengers imo.


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## shit (Oct 2, 2012)

probably means the wakanda thing

cap doesn't want to blame his boy namor, so he's gonna try to shift it all on cyclops


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 2, 2012)

^Probably. But they provoked Namor by kidnapping his teenage student and hiding him in Wakanda. What Namor did was over the top, but the Avengers really caused this whole mess and are going to get off scott free while Cyclops is going to take most of the blame. It really doesn't seem right.


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## shit (Oct 2, 2012)

let's not jump to conclusions

I'm still betting they just handshake and walk their separate ways

cap starts taking orders from havok b/c of white guilt in uncanny avengers, after all


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## Michael Lucky (Oct 2, 2012)

Cyclops Was Right


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## Kanali (Oct 2, 2012)

I love that Quentin is wearing a Cyclops shirt in the up-coming WatXm issue. Only person at that school with some sense.


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## Banhammer (Oct 2, 2012)

the best part was that cyclops would be the first person to clob him in the ear


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Avengers vs X-Men 12 was terrible. They destroyed Cyclops in-Universe and imo they ruined Captain America out of universe... for me. Maybe some people like him like that.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 3, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Avengers vs X-Men 12 was terrible. They destroyed Cyclops in-Universe and imo they ruined Captain America out of universe... for me. Maybe some people like him like that.



Don't suppose you could give me a brief summary of the issue?


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## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Don't suppose you could give me a brief summary of the issue?




*Spoiler*: __ 



Cyclops starts going ballistic and causing natural disasters all around the world. The Avengers are under the impression that throwing themselves at him is a good idea and eventually they let Wanda and Hope have a go. We get a panel of Scott begging them to kill him before they take the Phoenix from him and Hope becomes the new host. Hope sets all the disasters right and Wanda convinces her to go "No more Phoenix" and the Phoenix Force dissipates and is used to re-ignite mutantkind. Cap and Scott have coffee in Scott's cell. Scott says he wishes he could have traded places with Chuck. Cap berates him for making a mess but tells him that it was Cap's fault too and that what Scott told him on Utopia was true (he should have done more for mutantkind) and he promises to change that (Uncanny Avengers). Scott says its going to be a new day for the Avengers and X-Men and Cap gets mad and says "NU-UH I WON". We also get a shot of the "rebel X-Men" as Cap calls them, more specifically Magneto in a cowl with wanted posters of him, Emma and Namor behind him. It ends with an epilogue by Cyclops saying "That's the thing about the Phoenix, there always has to be destruction before the rebirth"




They might as well have called this event Civil War 2. Their half-assed character assassination of Cyclops in order to make him the villain failed completely and made him look like a hero because HE WAS RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING. Hope WAS the key. Hope DID restart mutantkind. Cap even asks why he should send Avengers to their deaths to make Hope the Phoenix when thats what they were fighting about to begin with. And yet he did it anyway and it turned out fine. Just like in Civil War when they tried to make Cap the bad guy and Tony the good guy but failed completely by giving Tony an indefensible position (even more so in AvX because Cap was simply wrong no ifs and or buts about it) and trying to portray Cap sympathetically which ended up making him look like the sole hero of the story.

The definitive moment of AvX for me was in Uncanny X-Men. Gillen sold it big time this issue when at the end Cyclops is arrested and after finding out mutant kind is back says he wishes he'd have died instead of Xavier and that he hadn't done all the stuff he did but "I'd do it all again" and walks into the sunset with his shackled arms in an X for X-Men.


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## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2012)

VS this week, best of the AvX books?

also includes a science battle, and jarvis vs toad

and yes, its amazing how cyclops was right about everything, the avengers caused all these problems like giving cyclops the phoenix power that he couldn't control, and they're walking away totally blameless


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

Kanali said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Was that the issue where Beast told Cyclops about the new mutants? Hank seemed really reluctant to tell Scott about it.

I hate how Cyclops is being painted as the villain here. He was right about everything, but everyone was acting like he's Doctor Doom. And that's before he did anything wrong.

Did you notice that Cap blamed Scott for Black Panther and Storms annulment? That was priceless. Cap started the war by making threats and giving orders about something he didn't understand. The Avengers kept on screwing up and making things worse while Scott saved the World. Everything Scott did that was remotely bad in the event can be defended.

1. He tried to take Hope home. Hope is a minor left in his care and what the Avengers did was kidnapping.

2. Killing Professor X. Professor X was warned repeatedly and he tried to mindwipe Cyclops (Again). Self defense.

3. The natural disasters. The Avengers turned him into the Dark Phoenix.

Luckily Scotts a major character in the MU and his negative actions in this series will probably be retconned away.

Among P5 Scotts many good deeds he fed starving people in the third world. Now that he's gone, I'm sure that our 'heroes' will take care of those poor people. Right? Right!?


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## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

that's omnipotent socialism. Captain America will not stand for it


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## sanx021 (Oct 3, 2012)

this scene the only true mutant


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## sanx021 (Oct 3, 2012)

We know Cyclops is going to break out of jail . I wonder who is going to help him escape and isn't destroying the phoenix a bad idea since galactus tried and the universe started to die


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## shit (Oct 3, 2012)

why is magneto a criminal now? didn't he risk his life trying to talk down scott for the avengers?


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## Es (Oct 3, 2012)

I expected this not to make sense


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> that's omnipotent socialism. Captain *Fascism* will not stand for it



Fixed it for ya!



> why is magneto a criminal now? didn't he risk his life trying to talk down scott for the avengers?



I'm guessing that he freed Emma and Namor.


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## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

shit said:


> why is magneto a criminal now? didn't he risk his life trying to talk down scott for the avengers?



Another big plot hole. I presume its because he doesn't agree with how the Avengers plan to run things and we'll presumably get to see more in Consequences but he definitely shouldn't be wanted. Just goes to show you why the Avengers can't be trusted.


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## sanx021 (Oct 3, 2012)

too many plot holes in this event the Avengers and most of the X-men came out of this event looking like douchebags. I find it funny that know one is questioning why Cyclops is in jail and Scarlet Witch isn't


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

sanx021 said:


> too many plot holes in this event the Avengers and most of the X-men came out of this event looking like douchebags. I find it funny that know one is questioning why Cyclops is in jail and Scarlet Witch isn't



I've already thought about that. It takes me back to this scene in the Childrens Crusade...



Notice how he says that she'll be brought to justice and yet that hasn't happened in the months since the Children's Crusade ended. Why wasn't she imprisoned? Cyclops was imprisoned for killing one man? After everything she's done she gets off scott free.

Basically... she's an Avenger. And the Avengers take care of their own.

Cyclops? He's just a filthy X-Man. Lock him up and throw away the key for our mistakes.


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## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2012)

to be fair cyclops also caused worldwide destruction. volcanos and shit


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> to be fair cyclops also caused worldwide destruction. volcanos and shit



After their repeated attacks and mind wiping turned him into the Dark Phoenix. They don't hold Scarlet Witch or Wolverine accountable for killing many more people. Why should Cyclops be in jail.

And they only became hosts for the Phoenix because of Iron Man's brilliant idea to shoot at the cosmic space fire bird.


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## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

before I say anything else, my reaction to cyclops fate


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## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Mfw when Gillen makes Cyclops win.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> to be fair cyclops also caused worldwide destruction. volcanos and shit



So have tony stark's weather satelits


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## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Hulk destroyed New York and nearly separated the Eastern Seaboard from America. But he's an Avenger (kinda) so its cool.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I've already thought about that. It takes me back to this scene in the Childrens Crusade...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


children's crusade was a crap book, nuff said.

as much as I hate cyclops, I hate wanda more, bitch should have been killed or locked up by now. I feel pretty good right now though, I hate cyclops, he's locked up now, I hate the phoenix, it's been kinda destroyed, all that's left is for someone to put a bullet through wanda's head and I got no complaints at all


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## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2012)

where the hate for wanda comes from I don't know.

but she's starring in a remender book so there's a 40% chance she will die.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

I was excitd when I saw Hope finally calling Wanda on her bullshit, but then I remember "this is AvX" so it came as no shock to me when it was suddenly "yes, it's all her fault, but not really because she feels embarrassed about it"


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I was excitd when I saw Hope finally calling Wanda on her bullshit, but then I remember "this is AvX" so it came as no shock to me when it was suddenly "yes, it's all her fault, but not really because she feels embarrassed about it"



I had a glimmer of hope as well. AvX loves crushing my glimmers.


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## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> where the hate for wanda comes from I don't know.
> 
> but she's starring in a remender book so there's a 50/50 chance she will die.



I don't hate Wanda, hell she's my favorite Blaster on facebook, it's just that people hate the hypocrisy.

Mind you though, there's a whole lot of blame to be aimed at the debacle, be it on pietro's feet, whom they gave a school to, Wolverine, whom they gave a school to, or the avengers who were about to give her the Hope Summers treatment

Or Skrulls and Doctor Doom, because Marvel


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## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

It seems to be standard treatment on MU?

Are you a bumblefuck that has wrecked worse damage than any "villain" in the world?
Maybe even create an ultron or two?
Here, have a school


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

It's the whole reason why Reed brought in all those super villains in FF
Not to help him beat Evil Reeds
It was just Afirmative Action


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> where the hate for wanda comes from I don't know.
> 
> but she's starring in a remender book so there's a 40% chance she will die.



I don't know maybe it's the making babies out of dead souls instead on adopting one and then blaming and killing her teammates when her retarded idea of tampering with forces she shouldn't have came crashing down hard on her.

maybe it's the changing the world into some sick fanfiction, once again tampering with forces she shouldn't have and then instead of blaming and killing her friends this time, she does a one up and opts to blame the mutant race and then commits mutant genocide... 

maybe it's the fact that after putting herself into these situations she didn't have the dignity to except the blame but instead pushes them onto the people who have don't nothing but try to help her and then she hurts them...

maybe it's the fact that she's gotten out of every fucking mess she's caused scot free and sometime even stands to benefit from them...... *how the fuc*...


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

> children's crusade was a crap book, nuff said.
> 
> as much as I hate cyclops, I hate wanda more, bitch should have been killed or locked up by now. I feel pretty good right now though, I hate cyclops, he's locked up now, I hate the phoenix, it's been kinda destroyed, all that's left is for someone to put a bullet through wanda's head and I got no complaints at all



Whether you liked it or hated it doesn't matter. Because that's exactly what's happening. The Avengers take care of their own indeed.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 3, 2012)

That last page of UXM 

Viva La Revolucion!

But yeah, Scott getting put in jail and Wanda walking free is pretty ridiculous.

Personally, I don't think Wanda should be jailed, since I rule most of House of M under temporary insanity, but she should have been put in some kind of facility that kept watch over her mental state and powers until she was deemed to be in control of both. Then I guess she could join the avengers (or go around restoring mutants one by one) as work release or something.

But the difference between her and Scott is that Scott didn't choose to get the phoenix, and the phoenix is an actual living entity not just power that would cause one to go insane.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 3, 2012)

I don't know the fact that Wanda pretty much killed off a race and gets to walk cause she's an Avenger just seems pretty terrible


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

so is.... scott and emma still a thing  bet she's boning namor now.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

You get three telepaths giving an affadavis of how scott has gone mad with cosmic rage, and the captain is still there saying "NUH-UH, YOU TOTALLY DID NOT WIN, YOU CHEATER!"


----------



## Es (Oct 3, 2012)

AVX a shit


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

There has always to be a shit, before there can be Gillen and UXM


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

I'm going to laugh when gillen packs his bags and goes somewhere else...


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> You get three telepaths giving an affadavis of how scott has gone mad with cosmic rage, and the captain is still there saying "NUH-UH, YOU TOTALLY DID NOT WIN, YOU CHEATER!"



When Namor was attacking Wakanda Cap and BP ran out. BP's just worried about helping the innocent victims. At the same time Cap goes on about 'Summers showing his hand' and how he was right. He was a total Jerk Ass in this event and what's worse, at the end of it both Cap and Wolverine just give these smug smirks when Scott gets locked up.



> so is.... scott and emma still a thing  bet she's boning namor now.



Fish face? Nah. She's stuck on Cyclops.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

I like how they just went out after Magneto for good measure.
with wanted posters and everything
Even though Magneto was the one who snuck the avengers in to utopia
LOJIC


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 3, 2012)

So, I literally just finished reading the last issue... and had to stop myself from dropping my Kindle Fire on the floor. The sense of irritation I felt throughout this entire comic was overwhelming.

But at least I got a laugh out of Captain America's reaction to Scott. "DON'T YOU DARE TRY TO MAKE THIS A WIN!!!!!" What a narm moment.


----------



## Es (Oct 3, 2012)

I'm glad I stopped buying this earlier


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

> Tom, I have one question about X-Men comics the past couple years: When did Wolverine become the ultimate scholar on what Jean Grey would and wouldn't approve of? He keeps bringing up her memory against people who knew her much better.





> Doesn't matter how good a scholar he is. What matters is what he feels about Jean.



That's it

I'm too old for comic books


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 3, 2012)

Es said:


> I'm glad I stopped buying this earlier


You made the right decision.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

Es said:


> I'm glad I stopped buying this earlier



I'm glad I pirated most of this.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2012)

the rotating writers was as bad as we thought itd be. shit was so random in this event. like, nova, why are you here at all?


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

So he can destroy the chrisler building and then that not be mentioned at all since.

Why isn't nova being hauled into a rubi-quartz prison


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

He's riding the coattails of an Avenger (Richard Rider). Unfortunately none of Scotts relatives/mentors have bene Avengers so he doesn't get a break.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

I loved how wolvie was all behind cap in the prison cell, not doing or saying anything, just watching, maybe he didn't say anything because he didn't want to kick a dead horse.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

Jason Aarons is pretty ridiculous. It's obvious that he's pro-Wolvie and anti-Cyke. First Schism and now this. Not to mention Logan not wanting kids fighting doesn't even make sense. He's had teen sidekicks several times.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Oh yeah, the part where the judas terrorist rubs the in the victim's face that he's the one delivering the man that was like a father's euolgy, rather than say, Storm, Bobby Drake, Henry McCoy, Rogue or David Haller, that part was particularly endearing


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Jason Aarons pretty ridiculous. It's obvious that he's pro-Wolvie and anti-Cyke. First Schism and now this. Not to mention Logan not wanting kids fighting doesn't even make sense. He's had teen sidekicks several times.



He was willing to explode an island full of kids rather than letting them make their own choices

Result?

Kids get helplessly kidnapped and horribly abused physically and mentally from his school by people who want nothing but to get back at Logan.


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

The most ironic thing about Wolverine being there is Cap berating Cyclops about "the ends justifying the means" while the leader of X-Force stands there and twiddles his thumbs and whistles innocently.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

> the rotating writers was as bad as we thought itd be. shit was so random in this event. like, nova, why are you here at all?



That's a good question, but at least he served a purpose at the beginning of the event. A better question is why did they go and beg the Hulk to join them?

1) He didn't really do much.

2) Isn't it hypocritical for the Hulk to join the Avengers and the X-Men in hunting down and attacking Emma and Scott? What happened to "Leave Hulk Alone!"


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

^ well it was the end of world though...


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Oh yeah, the part where the judas terrorist rubs the in the victim's face that he's the one delivering the man that was like a father's euolgy, rather than say, Storm, Bobby Drake, Henry McCoy, Rogue or David Haller, that part was particularly endearing



There were much better options. Wolverine pisses me off. He's so smug and acts like he has the moral high ground. Wolverine is a worse person than Cyclops. Even when Cyclops was a Knight Templar.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Yeah, that was the most awesome part


"Hey, so
I know we haven't helped each other out much, specially on our side
But we're really concerned about this problem see
And like, I've always tried to respect your space and all
But I don't know what to do any more and I would really like it if we came together on this one
Help us, please?
*Hulk?*"


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Yeah, that was the most awesome part
> 
> 
> "Hey, so
> ...



Of course. Because the Hulk is the poster boy for self control.

I also found this little gem.



> Rachel Summers: "You've lost your way in this fight, Logan. You're letting your personal resentment of Cyclops cloud your judgment. The Phoenix is here to SAVE us. To make certain the future I came from never comes to be. Why would you want to stand in the way of true Utopia?"
> 
> Wolverine: "*The Phoenix ain't on our side, darlin'. It's on its own.* And you're the one who's lost their damned way. I'm just glad your mother ain't here to see this. *AVENGERS, ASSEMBLE*!!!



Except the Phoenix was on their side and it was their to save them.

Also, at this point Wolverine is more of an Avenger and less of an X-Man. But of course, that mass murderer will be excepted wherever her goes unlike monsters like Scott Summers and the Punisher.

In one comic Wolverine, Daredevil, and Spider-Man work together to try and stop the Punisher from killing criminals. Spider-Man and Daredevil are fine, but Wolverine? There was one comic where he wiped out 200 SHIELD agents in 2 hours.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

It was mind rape tuesday though.
Because yeah, that's okay when wolverine's the one going on a telepathic bender


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 3, 2012)

Let's not forget how Wolverine tried to kill Hope before she ever did anything.





Lee-Sensei said:


> the Punisher


----------



## Blitzomaru (Oct 3, 2012)

People saying Scarlet witch should be in jail... well if we go by that, shouldn't Emma? And Magneto? And Gambit? not for what they did before this, but for their pasts. Especially Emma and Magneto. I mean, Hawkeye started out as a bad guy, remember. And none of them have the excuse of mental insanity to justify their evil deeds.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 3, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I don't know the fact that Wanda pretty much killed off a race and gets to walk cause she's an Avenger just seems pretty terrible



Yeah, but at the same time its comics. I'm not one of them, but I'm sure Wanda has her fair share of fans that didn't take too kindly to the events of House of M, and its not fair for her to be forever defined as an insane plot device.

Just like yeah, its pretty ridiculous that Tony rebooted and everythings totally cool between him and the avengers, but he shouldn't be forever defined as the guy who built a prison in the negative zone with the intent of permanently locking up those who didn't register.



Petes12 said:


> the rotating writers was as bad as we thought itd be. shit was so random in this event. like, nova, why are you here at all?



I think we can all agree that this would be 1238947123894723% better if it was just Hickman / Coipel.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

Blitzomaru said:


> People saying Scarlet witch should be in jail... well if we go by that, shouldn't Emma? And Magneto? And Gambit? not for what they did before this, but for their pasts. Especially Emma and Magneto. I mean, Hawkeye started out as a bad guy, remember. And none of them have the excuse of mental insanity to justify their evil deeds.


I was never against emma getting jailed or killed but magneto lives!!!


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I think we can all agree that this would be 1238947123894723% better if it was just Hickman / Coipel.



assuming coipel can handle doing 12 issues of comics full to the brim with characters and it comes out bimonthly too.... yeah, good luck with that bro...


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Oct 3, 2012)

Oh man, #12 was even worse than I thought it would be. God, Jason "I suck Logan's dick for coke" Aaron is so fucking AWFUL.

So fucking glad that I saved reading Uncanny X-Men #19 for last to cleanse my soul of this AvsX horseshit. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Cyclops spitting in the face of Captain Facist and the Nazi-teers by throwing up the X as the big blue cowturd lead him out of the tent was GLORIOUS.




Also, I know Sanx already posted it once, but fuck it, it needs to go up again!



FUCK. YEAH.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 3, 2012)

What are you guys even complaining about?

This alone ensures the X-Men will continue their public distrust motif for at least 50 more years of IRL stories.

Except maybe Wolverine.





Kanali said:


> Nope, its incredibly bad storytelling.
> 
> Never, it was just an awful line. How Cap was going to arrest an *omniversal* god is beyond me.



Unless this was said in that issue I didn't actually read, anything with ~versal used to prop up something tends to elicit this response in me:



I'll probably buy the entirety of Blackest Night tomorrow, pray for me pundits.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Fucking Finally!

Mutants are back

The Phenoix may finally be gone

Utopia is closed, 

And Scott got Magnetto'd

Event worth it.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Blitzomaru said:


> People saying Scarlet witch should be in jail... well if we go by that, shouldn't Emma? And Magneto? And Gambit? not for what they did before this, but for their pasts. Especially Emma and Magneto. I mean, Hawkeye started out as a bad guy, remember. And none of them have the excuse of mental insanity to justify their evil deeds.



Actually, Emma has been arrested and clubed in the skull by Good Guy Murdock while in bonds during an attempted racial killing, and Magneto is wanted by the authorities despite providing crucial assistance during this clusterfuck.

Not that you're not completely besides the point or anything I just thought it merited pointing out


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Fucking Finally!
> 
> Mutants are back
> 
> ...



see zen knows what's what.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> see zen knows what's what.



Theres gonna be allot of hate on the  X-men though for this new mutant boom, they just shattered allot of lives for the sake of "not being alone"

Imagine waking up with a body made of slime and the the people responsible only  explanation is "lol Evolution sorry brah"

Id be pissed


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Fucking Finally!
> 
> Mutants are back
> 
> ...



Yes because a abstract being wiped from existence surely won't do anything at all to the Universe

Let's be honest in two years time we'll be getting an event, whose villain is some cosmic horror that's only out of it's can because Phoenix is dead


----------



## shit (Oct 3, 2012)

so

did jean come back or not?


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

The music that was playing in my mind as Cyclops walks into the sunset victorious.


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdqoNKCCt7A%E2%80%9C#t=0m54s[/YOUTUBE]




This works equally well.


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-WHW-QNswE#t=0m25s[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

No. She whispered something onto his brain that pretty much was the equivalent of telling the hulk a Knock Knock joke, which let the combined hax of Wanda and Hope to do that "one hit and you're out" rule onto Scott


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Theres gonna be allot of hate on the  X-men though for this new mutant boom, they just shattered allot of lives for the sake of "not being alone"
> 
> Imagine waking up with a body made of slime and the the people responsible only  explanation is "lol Evolution sorry brah"
> 
> Id be pissed



all these cyclops wankers who are yapping on about how he was right all along fail to factor in all the innocent people who just got their ass turned into mutants without a say in the matter but who gives a fuck cyclops-sama was *RIGHT* fucking banzai


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

shit said:


> so
> 
> did jean come back or not?



No. We see her ghost telling Scott to give up the Phoenix in AvX 12 and we we hear her voice when Scott is in the White Hot Room saying "You're an idiot" and "Tell Logan I love the school's name".


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Yes because a abstract being wiped from existence surely won't do anything at all to the Universe
> 
> Let's be honest in two years time we'll be getting an event, whose villain is some cosmic horror that's only out of it's can because Phoenix is dead



they'll kick his ass too,


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> all these cyclops wankers who are yapping on about how he was right all along fail to factor in all the innocent people who just got their ass turned into mutants without a say in the matter but who gives a fuck cyclops-sama was *RIGHT* fucking banzai



Cyclops wasn't right, Cyclops thoght A. The pheonix could be controled and B. Hope was all he needed to do it

When hope got the phoenix in part one she went Nuclear

It was only  after The Training the Avengers Gave her in Kun lun was hope ready, further more she needed Wanda's help and T*o Give up  the power when she had it* for mutants to come back

At beast you could say Scott was right in that 2 + 2 = 4 But he had no where near the right math to get that outcoume


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> all these cyclops wankers who are yapping on about how he was right all along fail to factor in all the innocent people who just got their ass turned into mutants without a say in the matter but who gives a fuck cyclops-sama was *RIGHT* fucking banzai



Read Lapham's Age of Apocalypse and see what happens when evolution doesn't follow its due course on Earth. The moment the Celestials saw that mutantkind was in danger of stagnating in AoA they gave Weapon X an ultimatum. Either we destroy Earth or you become the new Apocalypse and ensure that evolution follows its due course. 

Now we know that would never happen in 616 because Marvel doesn't have the stones, but story wise there's nothing stopping it.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Yes, the ol' kick a nuke till it disarms method.
Flawless


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Read Lapham's Age of Apocalypse and see what happens when evolution doesn't follow its due course on Earth. The moment the Celestials saw that mutantkind was in danger of stagnating in AoA they gave Weapon X an ultimatum. Either we destroy Earth or you become the new Apocalypse and ensure that evolution follows its due course.
> 
> Now we know that would never happen in 616 because Marvel doesn't have the stones, but story wise there's nothing stopping it.



Archangel tried that X-force stopped him and saved the world. its not an inveitblity


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

The Bite of the She-Wolf said:


> Unless this was said in that issue I didn't actually read, anything with ~versal used to prop up something tends to elicit this response in me:



The Phoenix exists in every reality, its home (the M'kran Crystal) is the nexus of all realities, it created the current Universe (by that I don't mean 616 I mean as in how 616 is set in the current universe and Galactus was born in the previous universe), it will create the next Universe, it is the sum of all future life, it is the omniversal force of destruction and rebirth.

I'd say that makes it omniversal.



Zen-aku said:


> Archangel tried that X-force stopped him and saved the world. its not an inveitblity



Archangel didn't try that. Archangel thought it would be a good idea to start over because he thought that what existed wasn't good enough to pass the Celestial judgement. The Celestials haven't shown up for a judgement like they did in AoA yet. The closest would be when all the Celestials showed up during Sinister's tampering with the Dreaming Celestial. And they probably would have destroyed Earth then if the Dreaming Celestial hadn't given Cyclops and his X-Men the thumbs up.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 3, 2012)

Kanali said:


> The Phoenix exists in every reality, its home (the M'kran Crystal) is the nexus of all realities, it created the current Universe (by that I don't mean 616 I mean as in how 616 is set in the current universe and Galactus was born in the previous universe), it will create the next Universe, it is the sum of all future life, it is the omniversal force of destruction and rebirth.
> 
> I'd say that makes it omniversal.



Dot dot dot.


----------



## shit (Oct 3, 2012)

I don't know who to take seriously here cuz everyone is obvs exaggerating to various extents

but it seems that Jean coming back wasn't real, so that's lame as fuck


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Actually, the fact that Gallactus is pretty much the counter part to the Phoenix Force, does handle the mythos of it as pretty retarded in this event, but even that falls short to abortion that was reading the characters and storyline

Like wether or not it's omniversal, multiversal or universal, or the fact that it runs on abortions is really irrelevant


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 3, 2012)

I never expected Jean to come back here.


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

shit said:


> I don't know who to take seriously here cuz everyone is obvs exaggerating to various extents
> 
> but it seems that Jean coming back wasn't real, so that's lame as fuck



Did anyone actually think she would? I know Marvel broke all of their promises for this event but given that Teen Jean was coming back and we were constantly told Real Jean was still and would remain dead, I don't see why people got their hopes up.



Banhammer said:


> Actually, the fact that Gallactus is pretty much the counter part to the Phoenix Force, does handle the mythos of it as pretty retarded in this event, but even that falls short to abortion that was reading the characters and storyline
> 
> Like wether or not it's omniversal, multiversal or universal, or the fact that it runs on abortions is really irrelevant



It does mean that it wasn't destroyed by Hope and Wanda scattering it into new mutants though since that would have meant the end of the Universe. The only Marvel Universe mythos in my head is the one in Earth X which makes amazing sense and is an excellent explanation and story. Is there even such an explanation for how things work in the 616 Universe?


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Read Lapham's Age of Apocalypse and see what happens when evolution doesn't follow its due course on Earth. The moment the Celestials saw that mutantkind was in danger of stagnating in AoA they gave Weapon X an ultimatum. Either we destroy Earth or you become the new Apocalypse and ensure that evolution follows its due course.
> 
> Now we know that would never happen in 616 because Marvel doesn't have the stones, but story wise there's nothing stopping it.



I'm all for evolution but instant mutation? that's al' ruin lives over night.


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> I'm all for evolution but instant mutation? that's al' ruin lives over night.



Its just fixing what Wanda broke.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

reading avengers acadamy, war bird is a whore... nuff said.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Its just fixing what Wanda broke.


 Kinda, it would be fixing if it repowerd and reseructed every one form m-day

when the High evolutionary tried this he was a Villain.

I'am happy mutants are back, but there are some  highly ethical ramifications that need to be addressed

There is a reason the Synthesis ending in mass effect 3 is so hated



Narutossss said:


> reading avengers acadamy, war bird is a whore... nuff said.



I only read the issue for Rockslide, I  was not disappointed .


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

should change that bitches name from war bird to hoe bird, she's on a different mutants dick in every other book...


----------



## Michael Lucky (Oct 3, 2012)

Im likin this alot, its like cyclops became a new magneto but he isnt

Looking forward to future creations :WOW


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Michael Lucky said:


> Im likin this alot, its like cyclops became a new magneto but he isnt
> 
> Looking forward to future creations :WOW



they even gave him a special cage like they did in X2


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Kind of difrent,

Xavier believed the ignorance of people should be helped
Magneto believed it should be punished
Wolverine believed it should be murdered the crap out of before it became a nuisance 
Summers simply believed it should be survived


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

so now that it's all over, where does avx place in shitfest events, somewhere between ultimatum and OMD??


----------



## Id (Oct 3, 2012)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> Oh man, #12 was even worse than I thought it would be. God, Jason "I suck Logan's dick for coke" Aaron is so fucking AWFUL.
> 
> So fucking glad that I saved reading Uncanny X-Men #19 for last to cleanse my soul of this AvsX horseshit.
> 
> ...


This
Yes
And oh fuck it, I am siggin it.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> so now that it's all over, where does avx place in shitfest events, somewhere between ultimatum and OMD??



Hell no even if you don't like AVX it is no where near the level of insulting retardation that is  OMD, or the Mean spirited Cluster fuck that was  Ultimatium, OR the Bland bore that was Fear Itself.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Fucking Finally!
> 
> Mutants are back
> 
> ...


High 5s 

*goes into hiding*


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> should change that bitches name from war bird to hoe bird, she's on a different mutants dick in every other book...



And yet she as a problem with homosexual marriage. I never understood that, she's not even human what the fuck does she care? Bitch is lucky she's so entertaining.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 3, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> so now that it's all over, where does avx place in shitfest events, somewhere between ultimatum and OMD??



Worse than Flashpoint and Fear Itself, but better than Ultimatum


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2012)

i think they just needed a token bigot for that stupid story and just made it someone who people wouldnt really care about


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Worse than Flashpoint and Fear Itself, but better than Ultimatum



i think it was better than all of those. thats extremely faint praise though


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> i think they just needed a token bigot for that stupid story and just made it someone who people wouldnt really care about



Pretty much. It came out of no where, was never referenced again and made no sense though. The alien from the extremely evolved and advanced inter-stellar empire who tries to either bang or kill every other male she meets has a problem with two male human monkeys poking each other?


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Dont be stupid

Warbird is against Canadian Marriage


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Dont be stupid
> 
> Warbird is against Canadian Marriage



If Canadians can marry each other whats next? Mexicans? Cubans? Bah!


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 3, 2012)




----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

The training she got from birth didn't work, scott got his way in part one and she couldn't control it, she was only able to restart mutant kind by doing the oppiste of what scott told her to do, By  letting the power go.


but you know facts...who needs em.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> The training she got from birth didn't work, scott got his way in part one and she couldn't control it, she was only able to restart mutant kind by doing the oppiste of what scott told her to do, By  letting the power go.
> 
> 
> but you know facts...who needs em.



You certainly don't.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> You certainly don't.



except what i said actually happened....

She got the power in part one And said her self she couldn't control it

even after the training  in kun lun, she still needed wanda and to let the power go.

how am i wrong  pray tell?


do you have a legit reason i'm wrong other then you don't like me and you love cyclops?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> all these cyclops wankers who are yapping on about how he was right all along fail to factor in all the innocent people who just got their ass turned into mutants without a say in the matter but who gives a fuck cyclops-sama was *RIGHT* fucking banzai


beats death by fiery cataclysm

btw zen you are desperate as fuck to ignore that cyclops was right all along. i mean, the avengers were understandably scared that the phoenix would obliterate earth like it did everyone else, but still.

speaking of, why is the phoenix so invested in mutants it makes no sense


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> beats death by fiery cataclysm
> 
> btw zen you are desperate as fuck to ignore that cyclops was right all along.



Bu he wasn't. All he thought the pheonix could be controlled, and harnessed to restart the mutant race, and that all he needed was hope to get to the phoenix

in the end it explicitly stated that that isn't true.

in the  ended Wanda was also needed, Hope giving  away the power was needed.

Scott was Wrong.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Oct 3, 2012)

Hope never had the Phoenix in #5 before Tony "Duuurrrrrrr" Stark broke it. Saying that she did is an out-n-out lie.

And yes, I'm right about it because I just went back and read the first 5 issues(UGH) less than an hour ago.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> except what i said actually happened....
> 
> She got the power in part one And said her self she couldn't control it



She was in the middle of two superpowered groups who were simultaneously declaring her a messiah and a destroyer. She panicked, something which wouldn't have happened if the Avengers didn't, you know, keep telling her she was trying to destroy the world and kidnap her from the people who actually knew what they were doing.



> even after the training  in kun lun, she still needed wanda and to let the power go.



Did you read the comic? None of that is impossible if you just ask Cyclops. Of course, Cap never _did_ ask Cyclops; Instead, he had the stupid plan of hauling the Phoenix off as far away as possible. Training Hope only became an option when Tony (And everyone here knows I'm a Tony fan) fucked up and split the Phoenix Force, creating the P5. He started training Hope as a backup when they created a worse situation, and then decided the best way to keep things going was to continually provoke the God-like beings instead of work with them.

But again, that would require you reading the comic. You obviously haven't.



> how am i wrong  pray tell?



Because you ignore the facts. The Avengers precipitated all the problems in this _entire_ thing. That's the point of the above comic. If Cap had acted in a non-stupid way, none of this needed to happen. Instead, he continually acted as a catalyst to make things work. If he had approached Scott and asked to work together and Scott was all dickish and all this stuff ended up happening, then Cyke _would_ be wrong.

As it stands, who started the fighting? The Avengers. Who created the Phoenix 5? The Avengers. Who provoked the Phoenix 5 into finally taking action against them? The Avengers. Who ended up being right about what Hope/Phoenix did? The X-Men.



> do you have a legit reason i'm wrong other then you don't like me and you love cyclops?



Yeah, the facts don't bear out what you say. It's not that I don't like you or that I love Cyke, it's that when it comes down to it Cyke ended up being completely right. All this could have been avoided if the Avengers _hadn't_ acted like Hope was the doom of all mankind and instead acted to work with the X-Men in the first place. The ending bears this out.



Petes12 said:


> btw zen you are desperate as fuck to ignore that cyclops was right all along. i mean, the avengers were understandably scared that the phoenix would obliterate earth like it did everyone else, but still.



Asking Zen to concede something is like telling a computer to divide by zero: does not compute.



> speaking of, why is the phoenix so invested in mutants it makes no sense



Why is Earth always the lynchpin in so many galactic events?


----------



## Thor (Oct 3, 2012)

Cyclops was right.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Oct 3, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Why is Earth always the lynchpin in so many galactic events?


Heh, it's almost like every major Marvel event ending in New York the last decade(or Metropolis for DC).


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> Hope never had the Phoenix in #5 before Tony "Duuurrrrrrr" Stark broke it. Saying that she did is an out-n-out lie.
> 
> And yes, I'm right about it because I just went back and read the first 5 issues(UGH) less than an hour ago.





So what she was joking?

Was it her hormones she was talking about?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 3, 2012)

Good thing the Avengers asked to train her first, so that she could do what she does at the end-

Oh, wait.


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> why is the phoenix so invested in mutants it makes no sense



Because Wanda's curse broke the fabric of the Universe and the Phoenix needs to fix that. Its apparently not the first time something like that happened.



Guy Gardner said:


> Why is Earth always the lynchpin in so many galactic events?



At least Annihilation Wave, Annihilation Wave: Conquest, War of Kings, Realm of Kings and Thanos Imperative had nothing to do with Earth (well except for some of the major players who were Earthlings).


----------



## Es (Oct 3, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> i think it was better than all of those. thats extremely faint praise though



Fear Itself at least didn't do another hero vs hero fight. And we got Fearless and it at least undid most of the stuff it did at the end

While AvX gives us Bendis on the X Books.


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Es said:


> Fear Itself at least had a interesting premise. And we got Fearless and at least undid most of the stuff it did at the end
> 
> While AvX gives us Bendis on the X Books.



Fear Itself was nothing bad. It was mindless action and nothing else. It wasn't good but it didn't actively suck either. It resulted in pretty much nothing. It had some cool moments and the rest was completely forgotten after the final issue ended. AvX was actively awful and it is the launching point of Marvel Now. Thank god Gillen is handling that.


----------



## shit (Oct 3, 2012)

the thing that kills the avenger position is they had no plan what to do with hope once they strongarmed her away from the x-men originally, aside from wolverine's plan to kill her

the iron fist shit came up in the middle of it all after the fact, and it was never explained to scott, in fact cap was never shown to try to instigate any sort of dialogue with the x-men

because they had to keep conflicting with each other, both sides suddenly acted like cliche villains, begging to be punched in the mouth

bad writing kills both sides of the argument, especially the avengers'


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> She was in the middle of two superpowered groups who were simultaneously declaring her a messiah and a destroyer. She panicked, something which wouldn't have happened if the Avengers didn't, you know, keep telling her she was trying to destroy the world and kidnap her from the people who actually knew what they were doing.


 accept that it was the phoenix, hence why cyclops said she had it and rejected it.




> Did you read the comic? None of that is impossible if you just ask Cyclops. Of course, Cap never _did_ ask Cyclops; Instead, he had the stupid plan of hauling the Phoenix off as far away as possible. Training Hope only became an option when Tony (And everyone here knows I'm a Tony fan) fucked up and split the Phoenix Force, creating the P5. He started training Hope as a backup when they created a worse situation, and then decided the best way to keep things going was to continually provoke the God-like beings instead of work with them.
> 
> 
> But again, that would require you reading the comic. You obviously haven't.


 I have read the comic, Tony saved the world by  making the  PF temporarily weaker, instead of getting a full powerd Dark phoenix right off the back, Scott had already tried to kill wanda, and even with the pf viewd her as a threat, and was keeping the power for him self. Further more Caps plan for gettign hope was retarded, but he was not wrong in not trusting the P5.

i mean seriously work with the  god like beings that  obviously don't know what the fuck they are doing? Collossus alone proved that they only thought they were in control.






> Because you ignore the facts. The Avengers precipitated all the problems in this _entire_ thing. That's the point of the above comic. If Cap had acted in a non-stupid way, none of this needed to happen. Instead, he continually acted as a catalyst to make things work. If he had approached Scott and asked to work together and Scott was all dickish and all this stuff ended up happening, then Cyke _would_ be wrong.


 He did approach scott asking tow work with him. But weve argued this point so i'm not gonna do it aagin,  you think one thing on this one i think another



> As it stands, who started the fighting?




Scott  when  he NEarly blew a hole in Captain americas chest



> Who provoked the Phoenix 5 into finally taking action against them?


 If it wasn't the avengers it would of been some thing else,  further more the shit the p5 were doing [Putting Crab legs on Whales, tryign to fuse the Tectonic plates]  were not ok



> Who ended up being right about what Hope/Phoenix did?


Accept they weren't Try actually reading issue 12,



> Yeah, the facts don't bear out what you say. It's not that I don't like you or that I love Cyke, it's that when it comes down to it Cyke ended up being completely right.


Accept he wasn't. All the event he thought the Phenoix could be used as a tool fix shit. issue 12 straight up says this is not the case, hope was only  able to do what she was "born to" by doing the opposite of what scott was saying she had to do. Let it go, Hope  didn't instinctively know she had to do this rather, it was only after  learning from Cap, Iron fist, Spider-man, And Wanda was she able do do what she was born to do, With out the Avengers she was about to do exactly what the P5 were doing.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Not even I indulge the inane stupidity that is Act I any more, but the fact that Zen-aku argues both that three days of "wax on/wax off" constitutes as legitimate training, and that the continued atempted murder of hope summers was a good idea, amuses me endlessly, despite being thoroughly unsurprising


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

shit said:


> the thing that kills the avenger position is they had no plan what to do with hope once they strongarmed her away from the x-men originally, aside from wolverine's plan to kill her
> 
> the iron fist shit came up in the middle of it all after the fact, and it was never explained to scott, in fact cap was never shown to try to instigate any sort of dialogue with the x-men
> '



Well at that part the X-men had already proclaimed them selves gods, Cap did try to reason with namor who he trusted, but even then namor was like "i could kill you know but ill have pitty" when dealing with the stakes you cant trust the other guy not to screw you over

Also  they had a plan, Beast had  created a machine that could contain the phoenix, and the priority was to get hope off planet so the Fire bird wouldn't charbroil earth like it did every other channel


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## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Yeah, give Hope the Hulk treatment

That's really gonna end well this time

I wonder if there is really a world inside spongebob's skull that only he lives in, where all this self validation doesn't come off as cheap.
And I wonder how often Narutosssssss comes  to visit
I bet there's cake. With sprinkles


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## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

I mean sure, in my to-do list, throwing Hope off planet always comes before asking if Iron Fist could train your grandaughter in martial arts for the weekend, the same way throwing my dirty laundry into the sun always comes before asking my brother  to do it

Doesn't yours do the same?


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## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Exiling people to other planets? Works every time. Just ask the Hulk! Wait what? He came back stronger than ever, destroyed New York, bitch slapped every hero into mudwrestling in his arena, made two of the strongest men in the galaxy his bitches, and managed to gain the love and support of people on the street who supported a giant green monster and his alien army instead of their "golden heroes"? Well whaddaya know.... Still this time its just one of the worlds most powerful mutants and the omniversal force of destruction and rebirth, what can go wrong?


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## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Exiling people to other planets?



The weren't going to exile her, they were just going to draw the phoenix away, they never treated hope like she had done some thing wrong.

you really think they were just gonna strap her to a rocket


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## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Or just instantly charcoal the whole planet because of arriving to attack Wanda's spell with no host to guide it


This is buried bs, go back to your hole Spongebob


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

It's really disgusting to see Cyclops painted as the villain. He should have taken Magik, Emma, and Namor's advice and just killed them all. Freaking traitors and screw ups screwed him over while Aaron sucked for Wolverine. Wolverine and Cap don't have the moral high ground and it's shameful to see them acting like smug pricks after they caused world wide devestation. I can't wait until Cap dies next.


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## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> It's really disgusting to see Cyclops painted as the villain. He should have taken Magik, Emma, and Namor's advice and just killed them all. Freaking traitors and screw ups screwed him over while Aaron sucked for Wolverine. Wolverine and Cap don't have the moral high ground and it's shameful to see them acting like smug pricks after they caused world wide devestation. I can't wait until Cap dies next.



They weren't smug, they were pissed.


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## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Ironically, even at his last grasp for sanity as he strugles to contain a god he was never meant to have, but was thrust upon by the incompetent fools that would have him stomped to the ground, harped on by incessant gnats, Scott Summers raises his hand at the woman she loves the most to stop her from wiping out the whole planet in a fit of reactionary whim


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## shit (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Well at that part the X-men had already proclaimed them selves gods, Cap did try to reason with namor who he trusted, but even then namor was like "i could kill you know but ill have pitty" when dealing with the stakes you cant trust the other guy not to screw you over
> 
> Also  they had a plan, Beast had  created a machine that could contain the phoenix, and the priority was to get hope off planet so the Fire bird wouldn't charbroil earth like it did every other channel



beast's plan was retarded and didn't work at all
they went out in space in secret avengers and didn't have anything to do with hope in all of part 1

rulk tried to kill scott and scott didn't even really retaliate, so I don't see why cap would trust namor more to be reasonable
cap was too hung up in his pissing contest to go to scott, end of story

let's not forget that the phoenix 5 had the avengers dead to rights when they first got their powers and just let them be, so don't try to say they were the ones who started escalating things


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## shit (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> The weren't going to exile her, they were just going to draw the phoenix away, they never treated hope like she had done some thing wrong.



except the couple times wolverine tried to gut her


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## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> The weren't going to exile her, they were just going to draw the phoenix away, they never treated hope like she had done some thing wrong.
> 
> you really think they were just gonna strap her to a rocket



The Avengers believed that the Phoenix claiming Hope would destroy the world. So if that happened to Hope off world it meant she'd be stranded in the middle of space #samething

Almost as smart as trying to destroy the omniversal force of the Universe necessary for the existence of life and the next universe.


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## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

shit said:


> except the couple times wolverine tried to gut her



Twice  both times she looked  like she was loosing control the second time she WAS loosing control;, stop making it sound like he was doing it for shits and giggles



> beast's plan was retarded and didn't work at all


 actually in avengers it was working then Protector fucked things up



> rulk tried to kill scott and scott didn't even really retaliate, so I don't see why cap would trust namor more to be reasonable


 he Tried to appeal to his brother hood with namor




> cap was too hung up in his pissing contest to go to scott,


 I love how i can say scott was wrong with out demonizing him, but no one on Scoots side can extend the same courtesy



> let's not forget that the phoenix 5 had the avengers dead to rights when they first got their powers and just let them be, so don't try to say they were the ones who started escalating things


 Cap did  start off round  2 i never said anything contradictory to that, But he shouldn't have just waited for some thing bad to happen ether.



> Kanali said:
> 
> 
> > The Avengers believed that the Phoenix claiming Hope would destroy the world. So if that happened to Hope off world it meant she'd be stranded in the middle of space #samething
> ...


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> They weren't smug, they were pissed.



Yes. They were smug.

Cyclops: It looks like it's a brand new day for both the Avengers and the X-Men.

Captain America: DON'T YOU DARE TURN THIS INTO A WIN!

From the beginning this has been about being right for Captain Fascism. Maybe that's why he tried to broke into his house and kidnapped a teenage girl. Because Cyke and his friends were loved by the world for bringing world peace. What monsters!

Not to mention they turned them into the P5 in the first place.



> Hell no even if you don't like AVX it is no where near the level of insulting retardation that is OMD, or the Mean spirited Cluster fuck that was Ultimatium, OR the Bland bore that was Fear Itself.



AVX was on OMD and Ultimatum level in my opinion. Fear Itself is no where near that.



> i think they just needed a token bigot for that stupid story and just made it someone who people wouldnt really care about



But people actually DO care about it so they really screwed up.


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## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Twice  both times she looked  like she was loosing control the second time she WAS loosing control;, stop making it sound like he was doing it for shits and giggles



The first time he decided to kill her BEFORE she even did anything. Before he'd even see her wield any Phoenix energy. Then she proceeded to calmly blast him. If she didn't have any control she'd have atomised him. 




Zen-aku said:


> I love how i can say scott was wrong with out demonizing him, but no one on Scoots side can extend the same courtesy



Cap was wrong but he was doing it for good reasons so he's not all bad. Happy now? 



Zen-aku said:


> Cap did  start off round  2 i never said anything contradictory to that, But he shouldn't have just waited for some thing bad to happen ether.



So making bad stuff happen was a better idea? He should have done jack shit but kept the Avengers ready just in case. Not actively fought the people ending world hunger, poverty, thirst and energy crisis until they finally lost their shit and burned him. Someone pointed a good example a while back (or maybe that was in another forum) of how Cap was acting.

Its like walking into a bear den, poking the bear in the eye, taking its cub and going back to slap it in the face and then getting outraged when it mauls you and saying "do you see how dangerous that creature is?". Maybe you shouldn't have provoked it dumbass.

Except in this case the bear was ending world hunger, poverty, thirst and the energy crisis and creating a global utopia where bears and humans are equal.


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## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Yes. They were smug.
> 
> Cyclops: It looks like it's a brand new day for both the Avengers and the X-Men.
> 
> Captain America: DON'T YOU DARE TURN THIS INTO A WIN!.


 Thats your idea of smug



> From the beginning this has been about being right for Captain Fascism. Maybe that's why he tried to broke into his house and kidnapped a teenage girl. Because Cyke and his friends were loved by the world for bringing world peace. What monsters!


 Really your going  full out fanboy?

They wen't to get hope because, 5 virtual gods took over,  started fucking with the world  on a grand scale, and were using a power shown to be untrustworthy.


It wasn't about being right, it was about saving the world.


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## Es (Oct 3, 2012)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

Zen Aku accusing other people of being fanboys :haaw


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## Guy Gardner (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> accept that it was the phoenix, hence why cyclops said she had it and rejected it.



She was in the middle of a battle between two sets of superheroes, trying to figure out her place in things. That's the last place you want her to be when she's trying to take on God-like power. Acting like it would be the same as her being under calm conditions with people supporting her is like saying as long as a painter is talented, it doesn't matter whether he's trying to paint under a hail of gunfire.




> I have read the comic, Tony saved the world by  making the  PF temporarily weaker, instead of getting a full powerd Dark phoenix right off the back, Scott had already tried to kill wanda, and even with the pf viewd her as a threat, and was keeping the power for him self. Further more Caps plan for gettign hope was retarded, but he was not wrong in not trusting the P5.





Tony _didn't_ save the world. Tony exacerbated the problem by giving the Phoenix Force to 5 people who were never meant to control it. The Avengers continually antagonized these people who attempting to do go for no other reason than they _had_ to be bad. .



> i mean seriously work with the  god like beings that  obviously don't know what the fuck they are doing? Collossus alone proved that they only thought they were in control.



After you forced them to start building a prison for the superheroes who was fighting for the Utopia they were trying to give them.

But hey, you're the one arguing that giving the Phoenix Force to a bunch of people who were never taught to control it. Tony saved the world by giving god-like power to people who couldn't handle it is a curious argument.



> He did approach scott asking tow work with him. But weve argued this point so i'm not gonna do it aagin,  you think one thing on this one i think another



No, he approached Scott to *take* Hope away. His entire plan is to fly her away from Earth while figuring out a way to kill the Phoenix. The plan that ended up working _could_ have been suggested from the onset instead of deciding to by John Wayne and completely blow off any idea by the X-Men.



> Scott  when  he NEarly blew a hole in Captain americas chest



Yeah, sure. He totally was trying to kill Cap, because we've never seen Cyke _not_ kill someone with an optic blast.



> If it wasn't the avengers it would of been some thing else,  further more the shit the p5 were doing [Putting Crab legs on Whales, tryign to fuse the Tectonic plates]  were not ok



Yes, because that's _all_ they were doing.

And again, _you_ are the one who is arguing that Tony saved the world by doing that, so this doesn't really make your argument look better.



> Accept they weren't Try actually reading issue 12,



Uh, you can't just say "ACCEPT IT!" and expect me to do so. I read issue #12, and Cyke ended up being vindicated: the Phoenix brought back the mutant race. All it would have taken was cooperation from the Avengers, to be on their side from the beginning.

Instead, Cap wanted to take Hope and run her off into space at full speed. By his own plan, he would have doomed Earth by preventing her from getting the training that you say she _needed_ in a futile attempt to delay the inevitable.



> Accept he wasn't. All the event he thought the Phenoix could be used as a tool fix shit. issue 12 straight up says this is not the case, hope was only  able to do what she was "born to" by doing the opposite of what scott was saying she had to do.



She brought back mutants! That's what he said she'd do! Just because she gave it up in the end does _not_ negate the fact that Cyclops was fucking _right._



> Let it go, Hope  didn't instinctively know she had to do this rather,



And that wasn't any of the plan before. That was spontaneous, and could have occurred if _the Avengers hadn't fucked up the whole situation in the first place._



> it was only after  learning from Cap, Iron fist, Spider-man, And Wanda was she able do do what she was born to do, With out the Avengers she was about to do exactly what the P5 were doing.



When did she learn what she had to do from any of them? They gave her a bunch of platitudes, none of which apply to anything which ended up happening.

And _none of this_ forgives the fact that if the Avengers had come to Cyclops and talked about doing exactly that, it does _not_ oppose what Cyke wants to do. The goals are the same, but instead the Avengers took an adversarial position for no good reason other than they thought they knew better, and now we can clearly see that they _didn't._


----------



## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> They wen't to get hope because, 5 virtual gods took over,  started fucking with the world  on a grand scale, and were using a power shown to be untrustworthy.
> 
> 
> It wasn't about being right, it was about saving the world.



"Started fucking with the world". Really? I guess the world didn't like having all of its problems solved. I guess the starving people in third world countries are happy that the Avengers are fighting their saviours because hey, what right the the Phoenixes have to provide food and water for the poor? Only the Avengers get to do that! Oh wait they're busy demolishing New York in lavish battles instead of using their divine powers to better the world outside of the battlefield. Right... right. 

And this untrustworthy power. Its not like two separate people used it successfully without losing control for extended periods of time. And the Avengers have obviously seen how dangerous and untrustworthy the Phoenix is, I mean just remember all the times the Avengers were there when the Phoenix came to Earth to claim hosts. Whats that? This is the first time the Avengers have encountered the Phoenix? Well golly, thank god ol'Logan was there to fill 'em in on how one of the teachers at his school controlled it for years and how the woman of his dreams kept it in check even as she was dying.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Kanali said:


> The first time he decided to kill her BEFORE she even did anything.


 actually when he found her she was  sorunded in flames, standing over the smoldering bodies of her friends, he thought she had gone dark phoenix. he made an assumption but you cant say you woulnd never of reached that same conclusion




> Then she proceeded to calmly blast him. If she didn't have any control she'd have atomised him.


 notice the second time they met up he was willing to listen to her.






> Cap was wrong but he was doing it for good reasons so he's not all bad. Happy now?


better then Lee.





> So making bad stuff happen was a better idea? He should have done jack shit but kept the Avengers ready just in case.


The thing about jsut waiting for bad to happen is that it might be to late by the time you think its ok to act.




> Not actively fought the people ending world hunger, poverty, thirst and energy crisis until they finally lost their shit and burned him.


You are forgetting the bad shit they were doing, just because they had the power, They aren't the first guys to Try and bring peace through tyranny. also remember cap was just watching until Obama called him to his office and said we need a safety net if shit hits the fan 



> Someone pointed a good example a while back (or maybe that was in another forum) of how Cap was acting.
> 
> Its like walking into a bear den, poking the bear in the eye, taking its cub and going back to slap it in the face and then getting outraged when it mauls you and saying "do you see how dangerous that creature is?". Maybe you shouldn't have provoked it dumbass.


Its more like going to kill the bear cause its already mauled several hikers over the years, but being stopped by a Wild life conservationist saying he tamed it.


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## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> no it snot, they would of sent a team with her. they wanted to keep hope from the pheonix in the begging, that meant even in space



And that team was supposed to survive the supposed destruction of whatever planet they dumped Hope on how? And even if they did, what good is a team of Avengers going to do against the fucking Phoenix. It took all of the Avengers giving it their all to defeat an imperfect host wielding a fifth of it. Keep in mind this is pre-Wanda too so no cheating with chaos magic.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Thats your idea of smug
> 
> Really your going  full out fanboy?
> 
> ...



Considering Cap's smirk at the end of the issue, yup.

Oh no! The P5 are feeding the starving, created a free energy source, and brought peace to the world? Those monsters!

Trailer with english subtitles


My heroes. They're kidnappers. Whether Hope wanted to leave or not (and they never explained why), she was a minor and Cable left her in Cyclops' care.



How does Barton repay Scotts kindness.


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## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> actually when he found her she was  sorunded in flames, standing over the smoldering bodies of her friends, he thought she had gone dark phoenix. he made an assumption but you cant say you woulnd never of reached that same conclusion



Fair enough. Except he's seen Dark Phoenix before and thats not what it looks like. I admit it looks bad but he couldn't have asked "are you crazy yet?" because if she was there's no way a stab wound would have killed her anyways.




Zen-aku said:


> notice the second time they met up he was willing to listen to her.



I never said anything about the second time.






Zen-aku said:


> better then Lee.



I aim to please.





Zen-aku said:


> The thing about jsut waiting for bad to happen is that it might be to late by the time you think its ok to act.



Thats still absolutely no excuse for doing something while good stuff and absolutely no bad stuff is going on. Thats like me shooting you in the face while you're serving hot soup to homeless people because I have a hunch you might go on a killing spree sometime in the near future maybe. 




Zen-aku said:


> You are forgetting the bad shit they were doing, just because they had the power, They aren't the first guys to Try and bring peace through tyranny. also remember cap was just watching until Obama called him to his office and said we need a safety net if shit hits the fan



What bad shit? Give me some examples. So the Phoenix gods need to have the votes of the people to make the world a better place? Democracy is great but lets not get mindless here. I'd rather have a benevolent dictator than sifting through the endless ocean of dirty politicians conning their way into office and the inefficient government neutered by special interests. From what AvX showed, the only people unhappy with the Phoenixes running things were the Avengers and world leaders. 



Zen-aku said:


> Its more like going to kill the bear cause its already mauled several hikers over the years, but being stopped by a Wild life conservationist saying he tamed it.



More like it mauled someone once with good reason and then having a maul-free record for years and having several experts saying its tame.


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## Kanali (Oct 3, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Considering Cap's smirk at the end of the issue, yup.
> 
> Oh no! The P5 are feeding the starving, created a free energy source, and brought peace to the world? Those monsters!
> 
> ...



Thor. Saving the world by punching one kid at a time. A much better use of his time than fixing the environment or creating fertile and liveable zones out of deserts with his magic hammer.


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## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> She was in the middle of a battle between two sets of superheroes, trying to figure out her place in things. That's the last place you want her to be when she's trying to take on God-like power. Acting like it would be the same as her being under calm conditions with people supporting her is like saying as long as a painter is talented, it doesn't matter whether he's trying to paint under a hail of gunfire.


It's the phoenix it wouldn't have been a calm environmental ether way, she had her plan, the avengers and X-men being there wouldn't make a difference, trying to shift the blame to other people, when  it is specifically stated many times in the book that "She couldn't control it then" is BS






> Tony _didn't_ save the world. Tony exacerbated the problem by giving the Phoenix Force to 5 people who were never meant to control it.


 it bought them time, Had hope gotten the power if she didn't Go nuclear then she would of done what the P5 did but with no way to stop her, or slow her down. 




> The Avengers continually antagonized these people who attempting to do go for no other reason than they _had_ to be bad. .


 They were  bad, They were  already messing shit up, They were making mandates by force,and making them selves accountable to no one. IT would be dumb to just let them do what they were doing with out any safety net





> After you forced them to start building a prison for the superheroes who was fighting for the Utopia they were trying to give them.


 No one forced Colossus to put crab legs on whales, no one forced them to brain wash people in Africa



> But hey, you're the one arguing that giving the Phoenix Force to a bunch of people who were never taught to control it. Tony saved the world by giving god-like power to people who couldn't handle it is a curious argument.


 Like i said before, He saved the world by buying them time, by giving them an opportunity to actually figure out what to do.





> No, he approached Scott to *take* Hope away. His entire plan is to fly her away from Earth while figuring out a way to kill the Phoenix. The plan that ended up working _could_ have been suggested from the onset instead of deciding to by John Wayne and completely blow off any idea by the X-Men.


 I already told you i'm no arguing this point but i will say 1. Cap said we need to work together and 2. Scott never game an option other then "just let us handle it




> Yeah, sure. He totally was trying to kill Cap, because we've never seen Cyke _not_ kill someone with an optic blast.


 With how far cap flew, if cap hadn't raised his shield He would of had a hole in his chest.





> Yes, because that's _all_ they were doing.


i have never said they weren't doing good, but you cannot sit and say that every thing they were doing, was 100% good and should be allowed to doing



> And again, _you_ are the one who is arguing that Tony saved the world by doing that, so this doesn't really make your argument look better.


Context, I told you what My statement entailed many time,  you arguing like a republican




> Uh, you can't just say "ACCEPT IT!" and expect me to do so. I read issue #12, and Cyke ended up being vindicated: the Phoenix brought back the mutant race. All it would have taken was cooperation from the Avengers, to be on their side from the beginning.


Lie i said before He was  right 2+2 equaled 4 but his math was dead wrong

he isn't vindicated because his method was proven to be wrong.

Cap was willing to cooperate, hence why he still worked with wolverine, hence why he begged  Scott and individual X-men at every turn, hence why he seems willing to help the  P5 if they turned them selves in.

Scott got what he wanted at the end of part 1 and Hope failed, she would of ether gone full dark phoenix or like i said just did what the P5 did but with no way to stop her




> Instead, Cap wanted to take Hope and run her off into space at full speed. By his own plan, he would have doomed Earth by preventing her from getting the training that you say she _needed_ in a futile attempt to delay the inevitable.


I am willing to say both men were wrong in part 1, Cap changed his view point as more information was made available, were Scott thought he could control it to the bitter end [ignoring those 5 seconds he went Sentry]





> She brought back mutants! That's what he said she'd do! Just because she gave it up in the end does _not_ negate the fact that Cyclops was fucking _right._


YES IT FUCKING DOSE BECAUSE HE THOUGHT SHE COULD DO IT VIA STRONG ARMING IT! HAD IT NOT BEEN THE AVENGERS LESSONS SHE WOULD DO F JUST MADE THE SAME DUMB MISTAKES HE DID BUT WITH NO WAY TO STOP HER.

The Phoenix could not be controlled, Further more it required wanda a woman he tried to kill many times before this to do it




> And that wasn't any of the plan before. That was spontaneous, and could have occurred if _the Avengers hadn't fucked up the whole situation in the first place._


 not it wouldn't Because Scott was teaching her that she had to strong arm it, not a single X-man sat down and told her what Wanda, Spidey and Cap did




> When did she learn what she had to do from any of them? They gave her a bunch of platitudes, none of which apply to anything which ended up happening.


Except it did, again read the book, You may feel they are platitudes but its made clear in the book its their guidance that led to her realization



> And _none of this_ forgives the fact that if the Avengers had come to Cyclops and talked about doing exactly that,


They tried that in part 11, and that wasn't an option in part 2



> it does _not_ oppose what Cyke wants to do. The goals are the same, but instead the Avengers took an adversarial position for no good reason other than they thought they knew better, and now we can clearly see that they _didn't._


nether did Scott, but  unlike the avengers  Scott never explored other options, he  thought you could control the phoenix and the story proved him simply and utterly Wrong.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-Aku. Almost everyone... seems to disagree with you. Just give up already.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Considering Cap's smirk at the end of the issue, yup.
> 
> Oh no! The P5 are feeding the starving, created a free energy source, and brought peace to the world? Those monsters!


 Brain washing, Whale legs, Tectonic plates, Too much water in the desert. Forced disarmorment of nations. You think Xavier told him to stop just for the hell of it

Also that's not a smirk





> My heroes. They're kidnappers. Whether Hope wanted to leave or not (and they never explained why), she was a minor and Cable left her in Cyclops' care.


Cable kidnapped her too. Her maternal grandmother is still alive and they never told her. Considering the avengers are government officials....



> How does Barton repay Scotts kindness.





Yes  thank you overlord scott for burning me alive then making me go thought he pain full regeneration and then locking me up in your lotus eater, i should total not try and help my freinds in takaing you down



> Zen-Aku. Almost everyone... seems to disagree with you. Just give up already.


 4 people on a  forum is not every one


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## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Thor. Saving the world by punching one kid at a time. A much better use of his time than fixing the environment or creating fertile and liveable zones out of deserts with his magic hammer.



Thor knows that just because you are a god doesn't mean you should play one, hell he tried  doing that during reign and the avengers slapped him down too.


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## Es (Oct 3, 2012)

> Unless this was said in that issue I didn't actually read, anything with ~versal used to prop up something tends to elicit this response in me:


You read my review of Lionel's Book?  Or anything in relation to him? (Shameless self promotion)


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## shit (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen is loving all this attention


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## Narcissus (Oct 3, 2012)

Oh god...

Anyone trying to remove any blame from the Avengers in this matter is doing mental gymnastics. The Avengers invaded the X-Men's home and demanded Hope, and refused to leave without her. Wolverine tried to kill her when she hadn't done anything. Tony created the Phoenix 5.

Scott isn't innocent, but Captain America and the Avengers are guilty as hell too.


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## shit (Oct 3, 2012)

Narcissus said:


> Oh god...
> 
> Anyone trying to remove any blame from the Avengers in this matter is doing mental gymnastics. The Avengers invaded the X-Men's home and demanded Hope, and refused to leave without her. Wolverine tried to kill her when she hadn't done anything. Tony created the Phoenix 5.
> 
> Scott isn't innocent, but Captain America and the Avengers are guilty as hell too.



I thought you were narutossss and was like "wahhhh when did he get a brain"

but then you're someone else lol


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Brain washing, Whale legs, Tectonic plates, Too much water in the desert. Forced disarmorment of nations. You think Xavier told him to stop just for the hell of it



That was after the Avengers started harassing them. Attacking them. Defeating Namor (meaning they got more of the Phoenix Powers and became more corrupt). And Cyke still kept control.

Forced disarmament of nations was a good thing. And the world loved them for it. It was just the Avengers and Obama. But Marvel Obama supportan Norman Osborn in Dark Reign.

Cyclops didn't do anything when Xavier told him to stop.



> Also that's not a smirk



IIRC, it was.



> Cable kidnapped her too. Her maternal grandmother is still alive and they never told her. Considering the avengers are government officials....



Cable saved her life and she loves him. He's pretty much her father... meaning that Cyclops is technically her grandfather... And Cable asked Cyke to make her the host too.



> Yes  thank you overlord scott for burning me alive then making me go thought he pain full regeneration and then locking me up in your lotus eater, i should total not try and help my freinds in takaing you down
> 
> 4 people on a  forum is not every one



Read the book Einstein. Emma burned him and Scott saved his life. A lotus eater is a lazy person obsesed with pleasure and luxury. What lotus eater are you talking about.

He should have just killed them and you're borderline trolling now.

It's not just 4 people. Look around. Scott was right and from what I've seen most people know it.



> Thor knows that just because you are a god doesn't mean you should play one, hell he tried doing that during reign and the avengers slapped him down too.


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## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Narcissus said:


> Oh god...
> 
> Anyone trying to remove any blame from the Avengers in this matter is doing mental gymnastics. The Avengers invaded the X-Men's home and demanded Hope, and refused to leave without her. *Wolverine tried to kill her when she hadn't done anything.*


Except Deep Frying her Freinds, like i said he mad an assumption




> Scott isn't innocent, but Captain America and the Avengers are guilty as hell too.


Un like some people CoughLEE,GuyCough i never said Steve never did any thing wrong, i never said the avengers never did any thing wrong.

But the* Scott was right* bull shit needs to be called on. 

that's all i'm doing.


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## Zen-aku (Oct 3, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> That was after the Avengers started harassing them. Attacking them. Defeating Namor (meaning they got more of the Phoenix Powers and became more corrupt). And Cyke still kept control.


no it wasn't The legacy issue where they brainwashed African warlord sin soldiers came out before issue 6, same with water in the desert, further more you cant shift the blame  to the avengers for shit that had nothing to do with them, Whale legs and the teutonic plates is all the P5's stupidity




> Forced disarmament of nations was a good thing.


 I'm just gonna let  Linkara and Doug handle this one

[YOUTUBE]316gDuZl9cs[/YOUTUBE]




> Cyclops didn't do anything when Xavier told him to stop.


That's the point., he didn't stop and go "you know what maybe your right" he just kept on thinking that he was right and if you disagreed you were a threat





> IIRC, it was.


looking at it right now, its an apathetic face, with crappy shading on his lips





> Cable saved her life and she loves him. He's pretty much her father... meaning that Cyclops is technically her grandfather... And Cable asked Cyke to make her the host too.


Except he kidnapped her, and had no biological or legal right to her, if your gonna try and play the legal guardian card i'm gonna play the "they kidnapped her and are continuing to let a poor old woman believe all of her family is dead" card.




> Read the book Einstein. Emma burned him and Scott saved his life. A lotus eater is a lazy person obsesed with pleasure and luxury. What lotus eater are you talking about.


a lotus eater is generally used to describe any time a character is stuck in a dream like state against there will, which is what Danger did to Clint, Luke and Jessica, new avengers You read the book



> He should have just killed them and you're borderline trolling now.


  you just said  he Should kill them, and refuse to acknowledge and form of wrong doing on Scott's part and i'm the one who's Trolling?



> It's not just 4 people. Look around. Scott was right and most people know it. Cyclops haters don't, but most people do.


 You mean out side this forum, cause i'm on CBR right now and  its  still pretty much split, here its 4 people, and we don't get that many people as is. so you know its all pretty much irrelevant.


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## Guy Gardner (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> It's the phoenix it wouldn't have been a calm environmental ether way, she had her plan, the avengers and X-men being there wouldn't make a difference, trying to shift the blame to other people, when  it is specifically stated many times in the book that "She couldn't control it then" is BS



Yeah, she had a desperate plan because a bunch of heroes was fighting over her and the person she trusted _just_ betrayed her. Acting like circumstances didn't play into that is willing ignorance.



> it bought them time, Had hope gotten the power if she didn't Go nuclear then she would of done what the P5 did but with no way to stop her, or slow her down.



It bought them time _to continue to screw up._ The situation wouldn't even have gotten this far if Cap hadn't pushed it into this. The end result is basically saying "Yeah, Cap should have worked with him on this one." Tony wouldn't need to split up the Phoenix Force they had tried working with Cyclops in the first place. As it stands, none of their plans did anything but drive the whole thing deeper into chaos.



> They were  bad, They were  already messing shit up, They were making mandates by force,and making them selves accountable to no one. IT would be dumb to just let them do what they were doing with out any safety net



Which is exactly why you want to provoke them into a fist-fight. Zen-aku: Suggesting that the best way to deal with psychotic godlike beings is to piss them off and watch them blow!



> No one forced Colossus to put crab legs on whales, no one forced them to brain wash people in Africa



No one forced him to irrigated deserts, provide free power for the world, and create world peace, either.



> Like i said before, He saved the world by buying them time, by giving them an opportunity to actually figure out what to do.



He fucked things up worse. He was only buying them time to come up with _another_ stupid plan which would have _no_ relation to what ended up finally happening.



> I already told you i'm no arguing this point but i will say 1. Cap said we need to work together and 2. Scott never game an option other then "just let us handle it



No, Cap told them they had to follow him on this. I can't believe you are still not able to recognize this. Cap showed up with a Helicarrier and said "My way or the highway." That's not asking for someone to work with you, that's asking someone to shut up and don't get out of line.



> With how far cap flew, if cap hadn't raised his shield He would of had a hole in his chest.



That doesn't actually prove anything. It's still just a bare assertion in a desperate attempt to make Cyclops seem worse about hitting the guy who threatened to kidnap his adoptive grand-daughter.



> i have never said they weren't doing good, but you cannot sit and say that every thing they were doing, was 100% good and should be allowed to doing



Neither did I, but the difference is that I recognized the wrong they did, while you don't recognize all the good that they did. I agree that it ended badly, but it's because the Avengers drove people who they thought were unstable to doing unstable things.



> Context, I told you what My statement entailed many time,  you arguing like a republican



I know the context, Dick Morris, Jr. My whole point is that instead of giving it to the kid who was trained for it, they ended up giving it to 5 people who weren't. It only bought time for the Avengers to come up with _another_ bad plan that didn't work, and the ending basically confirms that everything that was done could have been done if Cap hadn't been a moron from the beginning.



> Lie i said before He was  right 2+2 equaled 4 but his math was dead wrong



That doesn't make sense. If he says "2+2=4", then he's right _and_ his math is right, unless 2+2 _doesn't_ equal 4 anymore.

Scott's argument was that Hope would take on the Phoenix Force and would bring back mutants. There's nothing in there that is contradicted by the ending. Instead, it's completely _vindicated_ by the ending. He never said that Hope had to keep the Phoenix Force forever or anything, he just knew she could use it to save their race.

If the Avengers hadn't been completely wrong and basically put everyone in a situation where the Phoenix _could_ destroy the world, this would have been over in about an issue or two.



> he isn't vindicated because his method was proven to be wrong.



It was never proven wrong. He never got the _chance_ to prove it wrong because of the Avengers. Everything they did fucked up the situation.



> Cap was willing to cooperate, hence why he still worked with wolverine,



Before or after he kicked him out of a plane? And just because he worked with Wolverine does _not_ mean he was willing to cooperate; it means he was willing to work with someone who shared his narrow view.



> hence why he begged  Scott and individual X-men at every turn, hence why he seems willing to help the  P5 if they turned them selves in.



Beg Scott? He _threatened_ Scott. I wish I could see the comic you read, because it apparently differs from the comic _everyone else on the board_ saw.



> Scott got what he wanted at the end of part 1 and Hope failed,



Uh, no he didn't. Hope tried a desperate plan in the middle of a firefight after someone she trusted betrayed her. That's not what Scott wanted.



> she would of ether gone full dark phoenix or like i said just did what the P5 did but with no way to stop her



If all she needed was 3 days of extra training, then her turn was _not_ inevitable. That's the whole stupidity of this thing; if it was _really_ necessary for Hope to train with Iron Fist (And frankly, I don't see how any of that holds), _none_ of the plans that the Avengers drew up accounted for this. In the end, they made the situation _worse_.


[quote[ am willing to say both men were wrong in part 1, Cap changed his view point as more information was made available,[/quote]

He never changed his view. NEVER. He was continually fighting against the Phoenix and trying to get Hope. When did that _ever_ change?



> were Scott thought he could control it to the bitter end [ignoring those 5 seconds he went Sentry]



Nice of Cap to change his view from "Fighting to get Hope" to "Fighting the guy who is desperately trying to keep his godlike powers in check because there's no way we could possibly"



> YES IT FUCKING DOSE BECAUSE HE THOUGHT SHE COULD DO IT VIA STRONG ARMING IT! HAD IT NOT BEEN THE AVENGERS LESSONS SHE WOULD DO F JUST MADE THE SAME DUMB MISTAKES HE DID BUT WITH NO WAY TO STOP HER.



Your incoherent yelling doesn't change anything: Scott never asked Hope to keep the Phoenix Force forever. He only wanted to use the Phoenix to bring back the mutant population again. It did that, despite the Avengers continually trying to destroy or delay it. 

The Avengers lessons taught her _nothing_, and if they were that important it just underlines how wrong-headed the Avengers were in the first place: The problem was not Hope getting the Phoenix Force, but simply training her to be able to give it up. Either way, it shows how stupid the Avengers continually were this entire time.



> The Phoenix could not be controlled, Further more it required wanda a woman he tried to kill many times before this to do it



Yes, he tried to kill her because _she attacked him_. The fighting between the Phoenix 5 and the Avengers started _because the Avengers attacked them._

The Phoenix couldn't be controlled _for long._ But again, Scott never asked for the Phoenix to stay; he wanted it to restore the mutant population. After that occurred, he wouldn't have cared what happened because it did what he wanted it to do.




> not it wouldn't Because Scott was teaching her that she had to strong arm it, not a single X-man sat down and told her what Wanda, Spidey and Cap did



Not a single Avenger sat down and told an X-Men that, either. If it did work, it worked after the Avengers had created the situation in the first place. There's nothing to indicate that Scott would care if Cap tried to help train Hope. He was opposed to him _kidnapping_ her, not helping her.



> Except it did, again read the book, You may feel they are platitudes but its made clear in the book its their guidance that led to her realization



I disagree, but either way I'm still right: Either it did nothing and Hope was ready, or the Avengers nearly killed the world because they tried to strong-arm the X-Men into giving up Hope for a foolish plan that would never have worked in the first place.



> They tried that in part 11, and that wasn't an option in part 2



Part 11 in a 12 part series is a little fucking late to try that. Cap was stupid to try and force the X-Men to his view on a plan that would obviously fail. If he had actually tried to work with Scott to prepare Hope instead of futilely hiding her, then none of this would have happened.



> nether did Scott, but  unlike the avengers  Scott never explored other options,



He was never _given_ options. You like to use the phrase "strong-arm" a lot, but you don't seem to be able to identify it when it is placed right in front of you.

[quote\he  thought you could control the phoenix[/quote]

Because Tony Stark thrust it upon him, but whatever. It bought them time for another stupid plan!



> and the story proved him simply and utterly Wrong.



Except the fact that Hope got the Phoenix Force and restored the growth of the mutant population without destroying the world. But again, you're reading some alternative reality comic that apparently only _you_ can see.


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## Guy Gardner (Oct 3, 2012)

Let's post any "Scott was Right" pictures we find while Zen is inevitably trying to respond to every post like it's his job. This is from another board I go to:


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## Guy Gardner (Oct 3, 2012)

Hey everybody, I have a story to tell:

Yesterday I ran into an unstable guy with a loaded gun. It took me a second, but I thought "What Would Cap Do?"

That's when I started throwing rocks at him and calling him names.


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 3, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> no it wasn't The legacy issue where they brainwashed African warlord sin soldiers came out before issue 6, same with water in the desert, further more you cant shift the blame  to the avengers for shit that had nothing to do with them, Whale legs and the teutonic plates is all the P5's stupidity



New Avengers 30 came out almost a month ago, but it takes place after Round 12.



> I'm just gonna let  Linkara and Doug handle this one
> 
> [YOUTUBE]316gDuZl9cs[/YOUTUBE]



I'm not even going to bother watching that because you're trying to use real world logic for a comic book.

Obviously in RL it wouldn't  be good, but in the story everyone loves them for it and it brings peace to the Earth.



> That's the point., he didn't stop and go "you know what maybe your right" he just kept on thinking that he was right and if you disagreed you were a threat



Maybe you're right about what? He hadn't done anything.





> looking at it right now, its an apathetic face, with crappy shading on his lips



I disagree.



> Except he kidnapped her, and had no biological or legal right to her, if your gonna try and play the legal guardian card i'm gonna play the "they kidnapped her and are continuing to let a poor old woman believe all of her family is dead" card.



Does she think of Cable as a father?



> a lotus eater is generally used to describe any time a character is stuck in a dream like state against there will, which is what Danger did to Clint, Luke and Jessica, new avengers You read the book



I don't know which book you're talking about. If it's in AvX's main book then he should be grateful that he's even alive.



> you just said  he Should kill them, and refuse to acknowledge and form of wrong doing on Scott's part and i'm the one who's Trolling?



Yeah. He should have killed them. Instead of saving their lives so that they could come back erase his memory and try to kill him. The Avengers started this.

I never said that Scott didn't do anything wrong. But the Avengers were worse and they were being hypocrites. The P5 are too powerful to be trusted, but apparently Doctor Strange and Thor aren't. Cyclops is under arrest for Crimes against Humanity (he hadn't done anything worse than them at that point), but apparently the Scarlet Witch isn't.



> You mean out side this forum, cause i'm on CBR right now and  its  still pretty much split, here its 4 people, and we don't get that many people as is. so you know its all pretty much irrelevant.



Are you in the Avengers forum in CBR?

Whatever. I doubt we're going to agree on this so I'm going to do the *mature* thing and agree to disagree. You can come back to have the last word. I know you really want it.


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## Guy Gardner (Oct 3, 2012)

Uh, the Linkara link doesn't hold because they were going to enforce peace themselves and create a post-scarcity environment. Way to fail at geopolitics.


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## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Guy Gardner said:


> Yeah, she had a desperate plan because a bunch of heroes was fighting over her and the person she trusted _just_ betrayed her. Acting like circumstances didn't play into that is willing ignorance.


 It wasn't a desperate plan she had hours and hours to form it.

And unless they say in book it was any thing else then Hope not being able to do it, you are wrong, because they say she just couldn't control it more then once.





> It bought them time _to continue to screw up._


They didn't screw up, They got hope, brought her to kun lun, had her train with yu ti and rand, surrounded her with people that filled her mind with some thing other then just survival and fighting [ironic considering she also learnt kung fu] and actually  accomplished there and the X-men's goals



> The situation wouldn't even have gotten this far if Cap hadn't pushed it into this. The end result is basically saying "Yeah, Cap should have worked with him on this one."


 he tried that, the reason they did not work togeth is all scott.





> Which is exactly why you want to provoke them into a fist-fight. Zen-aku: Suggesting that the best way to deal with psychotic godlike beings is to piss them off and watch them blow!


 Hey i already said  Steve's plan to get hope was retarded, but they still needed to work for a solution





> No one forced him to irrigated deserts, provide free power for the world, and create world peace, either.


Peace made by force is not true peace, further more 2 wrongs don't make alright,  do you have any really idea how much damage just  Doing some thing like fusing tectonic plates would do?

I never said the never did any good, but you cant ignore they were fucking up all while saying "Where right don't question us"




> He fucked things up worse. He was only buying them time to come up with _another_ stupid plan which would have _no_ relation to what ended up finally happening.


 he was the one  that put together the final fight  so i wouldn't say he came up with a stupid plan





> No, Cap told them they had to follow him on this. I can't believe you are still not able to recognize this. Cap showed up with a Helicarrier and said "My way or the highway." That's not asking for someone to work with you, that's asking someone to shut up and don't get out of line.


 HE had a hellicarirer  stationed off hand  encase shit got hostile, because guess what  last time Steve tried tot alk to him about some thing like this Scott shot at him, if you sit down to talk with some one but u have  plenty of belief that they will be hostile and you are on a time table you do you do fucking bring back up.

further more, he told Scott that he needed to work with him, he was being diplomatic, Scott never once gave a counter offer or another plan any thing





> That doesn't actually prove anything. It's still just a bare assertion in a desperate attempt to make Cyclops seem worse about hitting the guy who threatened to kidnap his adoptive grand-daughter.


god the straw man with you, that is not  how cap said it and you know it, here's facts

1.Scott shot cap hard enough that even with his shield absorbing the impact he flew several feet.

2. Steve shield was down. and was not defending him self.




> Neither did I, but the difference is that I recognized the wrong they did, while you don't recognize all the good that they did


 you didn't do that, not once have you said the P5 have done wrong, where as i have said yes they did good.




> I agree that it ended badly, but it's because the Avengers drove people who they thought were unstable to doing unstable things.


 IT Started Badly! When the first day of your regime you begging  by Brain washing people, and Forcing your will on entire nations that is not a stable foundation.





> I know the context, Dick Morris, Jr. My whole point is that instead of giving it to the kid who was trained for it,


She was not trained for it. that's why she couldn't handle it, What Scott told her is in direct contradiction to the line of thinking that saved the day




> they ended up giving it to 5 people who weren't. It only bought time for the Avengers to come up with _another_ bad plan that didn't work,


But getting hope did work







> That doesn't make sense. If he says "2+2=4", then he's right _and_ his math is right, unless 2+2 _doesn't_ equal 4 anymore.


 I should of used a more complex Math equation  but you should of seen my point



> Scott's argument was that Hope would take on the Phoenix Force and would bring back mutants.


Finish it, By harnessing and controlling it. you cant just leave that part out cause its convient




> There's nothing in there that is contradicted by the ending. Instead, it's completely _vindicated_ by the ending. He never said that Hope had to keep the Phoenix Force forever or anything, he just knew she could use it to save their race.


 again he said she had to control it, in trying to control it she would of caused destruction and hence he was wrong



> If the Avengers hadn't been completely wrong and basically put everyone in a situation where the Phoenix _could_ destroy the world, this would have been over in about an issue or two.


The world was already in jeopardy shown, when hope got the Phoenix and  couldn't handle it, Further more it was destroying every planet it came across,  you don't just hope for the best in that situation





> It was never proven wrong. He never got the _chance_ to prove it wrong because of the Avengers. Everything they did fucked up the situation.


he was proven wrong on the moon.





> Before or after he kicked him out of a plane? And just because he worked with Wolverine does _not_ mean he was willing to cooperate;


wat....Tats exactly what that means, working together with some one is Cooperation!

ughh :fpalm




> Beg Scott? He _threatened_ Scott. I wish I could see the comic you read, because it apparently differs from the comic _everyone else on the board_ saw.


issue 2, in middle of a fucking fight cap was still trying to get him to compromise and listen.





> Uh, no he didn't. Hope tried a desperate plan in the middle of a firefight after someone she trusted betrayed her. That's not what Scott wanted.


 her plan was the same, A+X being there or not, her plan didn't change,Scott's plan was Get her to the phoenix he got that, it ended badly





> If all she needed was 3 days of extra training,


Are you being facetious  or do you have proof of the time frame.




> then her turn was _not_ inevitable. That's the whole stupidity of this thing; if it was _really_ necessary for Hope to train with Iron Fist (And frankly, I don't see how any of that holds), _none_ of the plans that the Avengers drew up accounted for this. In the end, they made the situation _worse_.


 actually it was using what she learned from fist  and co was what gave her  the ability to fight scott, which scott immeditly accounted for, further more even if it was three days [again i want proof also i believe time flows differently in kun lun don't hold me to that though] she still would of been able to learn allot  considering who she was learning from. 






> He never changed his view. NEVER. He was continually fighting against the Phoenix and trying to get Hope. When did that _ever_ change?


 he wen't from trying to keep Hope away from it to trying to get her too it. The Phoenix was always the threat, and never was Giving it what it [or its hosts] want treated as a good thing. but caps way of fighting it changed as new data was made availble




> Nice of Cap to change his view from "Fighting to get Hope" to "Fighting the guy who is desperately trying to keep his godlike powers in check because there's no way we could possibly"


If he has to fight to keep them in check its best for every one if he doesn't have them.

Maybe this is the fundamental break down,  you think Scott should of been allowed to do what he wanted when he had the power.  many think that's a dumb idea





> Your incoherent yelling doesn't change anything: Scott never asked Hope to keep the Phoenix Force forever. He only wanted to use the Phoenix to bring back the mutant population again. It did that, despite the Avengers continually trying to destroy or delay it.


 he wanted her to control it, she was only able to to bring mutant kind back with he avengers help.



> The Avengers lessons taught her _nothing_


 Argue with he paper, because that is clearly not the case, It wasn't just about training,  she needed the wisdom they gave her to know how to do what she needed to do





> Yes, he tried to kill her because _she attacked him_. The fighting between the Phoenix 5 and the Avengers started _because the Avengers attacked them._


 The avengers didn't attack them back in CC. he wanted her dead because she was a threat to his power, he fucking says that Guy.



> The Phoenix couldn't be controlled _for long._


 At all


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## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Hey, remember the last time Captain America fought a power-mad reality warper? Maybe he should take a hint and put Cyclops under house-arrest.


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## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 





> Not a single Avenger sat down and told an X-Men that, either. If it did work, it worked after the Avengers had created the situation in the first place. There's nothing to indicate that Scott would care if Cap tried to help train Hope. He was opposed to him _kidnapping_ her, not helping her.


Dood he didn't want  cap interfering at all, he said that this was  X-men business, to say he wouldn't of cared is BS.




> I disagree, but either way I'm still right:


 You'r not right, go read the series again, 




> Either it did nothing and Hope was ready, or the Avengers nearly killed the world because they tried to strong-arm the X-Men into giving up Hope for a foolish plan that would never have worked in the first place.


 so the only options are you being right, What pretentious bull.

She was only ready because of the avengers that is explicitly stated.





> Part 11 in a 12 part series is a little fucking late to try that.


Part 1 and Part 2





> Cap was stupid to try and force the X-Men to his view on a plan that would obviously fail. If he had actually tried to work with Scott to prepare Hope instead of futilely hiding her, then none of this would have happened.


In avengers the plan was working befor  PRotector fucked it up, also  Scott's plan was allso doomed to fail

the Kun lun connection had not  revealed itself, if  hope had gotten the PF and didn't just kill every thing she would of been  like  the p5, nigh  omnipotent and thing her power is so great she can do no wrong, but they would have no way to stop her, she wouldn't listen even if the kun lun connection did appear




> He was never _given_ options. You like to use the phrase "strong-arm" a lot, but you don't seem to be able to identify it when it is placed right in front of you.


 your the one who doesn't see it,  you don't see that one man came to another and said "we need to work together" and one says "no this is mutant business" and you see  the former as being the obstinate one





> Because Tony Stark thrust it upon him,


He thought hope could do it to, Which she proved he was wrong




> but whatever.
> 
> 
> It bought them time for another stupid plan!


 There "stupid plan" actually worked





> Except the fact that Hope got the Phoenix Force and restored the growth of the mutant population without destroying the world. But again, you're reading some alternative reality comic that apparently only _you_ can see.


 Again going the republican route and Leaving out some vital details.

Hope Got the Phoenix force and was  able to focus with the training from the heavenly city, and  the wisdom imparted to her from the avengers in conjunction with wanda [an avenger] and the knowledge that she couldn't control it and had to let it go some thing the "other guy" would never of thought off

 was able to restart mutant kind

all that is important to the conversation we are actually having.


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## shit (Oct 4, 2012)

it kinda makes sense that cap would take wanda's side

he didn't fight her in HoM and really just lived out an idyllic dream world while mutants were getting depowered in mid-air and mid-transformation


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

This was a pretty good review.


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## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I'm not even going to bother watching that because you're trying to use real world logic for a comic book.
> 
> Obviously in RL it wouldn't  be good, but in the story everyone loves them for it and it brings peace to the Earth.


 Yes Because God Forbid you use *gasp* logic 
 Heres the thing, People are dumb just in RL people would also think that its a good idea, with out realizing that its not

Also marvel has always prided itself on being "semi" realistic.


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## Petes12 (Oct 4, 2012)

Es said:


> Fear Itself at least didn't do another hero vs hero fight. And we got Fearless and it at least undid most of the stuff it did at the end
> 
> While AvX gives us Bendis on the X Books.



bendis on the xbooks was happening either way. it's even in the big future timeline thing from the start of his avengers book with JRJR.


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## shit (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> This was a pretty good review.



terrible review


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Cho is Writing.......


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 4, 2012)

oh good, loeb's wolverine was too high brow for me


----------



## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

Oh, Cho writes?


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)




----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Es said:


> Oh, Cho writes?



....Kinda

Was it to much to have Bunne continue to Write!?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 4, 2012)

bunn is only busy picking up and probably destroying like 10 other titles.


----------



## shit (Oct 4, 2012)

bunn sucks


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> bunn is only busy picking up and probably destroying like 10 other titles.



Right


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Yeah, I'm not wasting my time with your truther-like argument that is detached from reality. It was a mistake to even try again. However...



Zen-aku said:


> Yes Because God Forbid you use *gasp* logic
> Heres the thing, People are dumb just in RL people would also think that its a good idea, with out realizing that its not
> 
> Also marvel has always prided itself on being "semi" realistic.



Except your assertion doesn't _follow_ logic. The whole point of that video is the idea of nuclear weapons as a stabilizing force in certain ways, preventing a conventional conflict because the possibility of it escalating into a nuclear exchange (Which, I'll point out, isn't necessarily true. The whole point about Israel belies that the Arab countries found the strategy of war with Israel to not work. Hell, they invaded 6 years after Israel gained nuclear weapons. The Arab-Israeli Conflict doesn't break down to one having nukes and the others not...). By taking away this deterrent, it opens up the possibility of a winnable conventional war, thus increasing the possibility of going to war because they believe the goals are achievable without sparking a mutually-assured destruction event. Things are much different than they were in the 1980's, though, and the nuclear deterrent doesn't necessarily apply in these circumstances as much as it used to. But the point remains: Superman was just taking away the missiles without putting another deterrent in there to prevent these possible wars.

It _doesn't_ apply to the Phoenix Five situation because they are replacing one deterrent (nuclear weapons) with another (themselves), along with them attempting to creating a post-scarcity environment. They have the power to mediate conflicts, to enforce such things and to eliminate the reasons for conflict.

So it _is_ logical. In fact, it's one of the least objectionable parts of the entire storyline. Don't go around ripping people when you obviously don't know shit about what you are talking about.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Yes Because God Forbid you use *gasp* logic
> Heres the thing, People are dumb just in RL people would also think that its a good idea, with out realizing that its not
> 
> Also marvel has always prided itself on being "semi" realistic.





You actually believe that? Seriously? Comic books make a lot of makes all of the time. Real world logic doesn't work here. Deal with it.


----------



## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

shit said:


> bunn sucks


>I liked Monsters of Evil


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)

knew there was alot of cyclops faggotry going on in here but after reading the last few pages I'm certain if cyclops asked any one of you to take his dick up your ass claiming it's for the sake of mutantkind, I'm sure you'd all bend over ready and waiting replying how *right* he must be...


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Yeah, I'm not wasting my time with your truther-like argument that is detached from reality. It was a mistake to even try again. However...


Tch. tch. You know i can have a conversation, disagree with some one and  not chalk it up  to "lol ur dumb"

we disagree guy but i thought better of you then that.





> Except your assertion doesn't _follow_ logic. The whole point of that video is the idea of nuclear weapons as a stabilizing force in certain ways, preventing a conventional conflict because the possibility of it escalating into a nuclear exchange (Which, I'll point out, isn't necessarily true. The whole point about Israel belies that the Arab countries found the strategy of war with Israel to not work. Hell, they invaded 6 years after Israel gained nuclear weapons. The Arab-Israeli Conflict doesn't break down to one having nukes and the others not...). By taking away this deterrent, it opens up the possibility of a winnable conventional war, thus increasing the possibility of going to war because they believe the goals are achievable without sparking a mutually-assured destruction event. Things are much different than they were in the 1980's, though, and the nuclear deterrent doesn't necessarily apply in these circumstances as much as it used to. But the point remains: Superman was just taking away the missiles without putting another deterrent in there to prevent these possible wars.
> 
> It _doesn't_ apply to the Phoenix Five situation because they are replacing one deterrent (nuclear weapons) with another (themselves), along with them attempting to creating a post-scarcity environment. They have the power to mediate conflicts, to enforce such things and to eliminate the reasons for conflict.
> 
> So it _is_ logical. In fact, it's one of the least objectionable parts of the entire storyline. Don't go around ripping people when you obviously don't know shit about what you are talking about.



With out a nuclear determent terrorism would likely increase, and what happens when even even with out  n bombs  "conventional Conflict breaks down" humans will go to war with chains and bottles if they have too.

point is that they just made  it easier for  conflicts to be waged, imo, even with them as a determent, they couldn't  fix the problem with out taking the extreme measures they did, How long before Emma Decides to Go Obito and  just brain wash every one?


further more, once countries see their new [all white] over lords above them whats to stop them from looking for weapons in other places? [Demons alien tech just in general shit that we don't want going off]

Peace cannot be forced, and  no ruling body should be completely uncountable.


----------



## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> knew there was alot of cyclops faggotry going on in here but after reading the last few pages I'm certain if cyclops asked any one of you to take his dick up your ass claiming it's for the sake of mutantkind, I'm sure you'd all bend over ready and waiting replying how *right* he must be...



How mature


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> knew there was alot of cyclops faggotry going on in here but after reading the last few pages I'm certain if cyclops asked any one of you to take his dick up your ass claiming it's for the sake of mutantkind, I'm sure you'd all bend over ready and waiting replying how *right* he must be...



Are the typos in your post because you can't see the screen while you suck Wolverine's cock?


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Es said:


> >I liked Monsters of Evil



I'm still mad for him Turning Hellstorm Evil


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Are the typos in your post because you can't see the screen while you suck Wolverine's cock?



impossible, ma boy wolvie is too straight to ever point his dick at another man, I just type to fast is all...


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

^Cyclops gets the girl. Clearly he's more desirable. Now quit giving Wolvie head and see the bigger picture.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> ^Cyclops gets the girl. Clearly he's more desirable. Now quit giving Wolvie head and see the bigger picture.



You are the last person be talking about giving any one head.

Also Wolverine gets so much ass its not even funny, He is Currently Tapping a Fine Black Reporter,


 and If Uncanny X-force is To be believed he will be fucking  Psylocke on a regular basis in the near future


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)

Honestly, cyclops ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) are full of themselves, I remember when the x-men starting winning AvX banhammer was talking all that good shit about how some parts of AvX was some the best shit he ever dang read and then bang P5 started falling apart, all the x-men jumped ship to the avengers and suddenly it was the worse crapfest ever again.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> You are the last person be talking about giving any one head.
> 
> Also Wolverine gets so much ass its not even funny, He is Currently Tapping a Fine Black Reporter,
> 
> ...



Actually, you're the last person.

So Wolverines a slut? Kay thanks.


----------



## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> I'm still mad for him Turning Hellstorm Evil



The Sun of Satan being self motivated isn't too much of a surprise for me


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Es said:


> The Sun of Satan being self motivated isn't too much of a surprise for me



Thats the thing on his worst day he was supposed to be chaotic neutral cause he fights against his pa



Lee-Sensei said:


> Actually, you're the last person.


 Weak man weak.




> So Wolverines a slut? Kay thanks.


 a Slut sleeps around even while he is in a committed relationship, wolverine when he he is seriously involved he stays faith full

Unlike some people.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Tch. tch. You know i can have a conversation, disagree with some one and  not chalk it up  to "lol ur dumb"



Not normally, but I've had this conversation many times before and after carefully analyzing all the other options, it seems the most appropriate.



> we disagree guy but i thought better of you then that.



You really can't pull out the "We disagree, but you're better than that" card when you're basically making shit up. If you'd like to take a show of hands on the matter, I think I'll probably come out ahead.



> With out a nuclear determent terrorism would likely increase, and what happens when even even with out  n bombs  "conventional Conflict breaks down" humans will go to war with chains and bottles if they have too.



... the fuck? Why would _terrorism_, of all things, increase? Terrorists are, by definition, non-state actors. They attack people with nukes all the time: the United States, Russia, the United Kingdom, Pakistan, India, and Israel can and have been subject to terrorism, despite their nuclear supremacy. Nukes mean nothing to a terrorist because they give you no place to nuke; they have no state to attack.



> point is that they just made  it easier for  conflicts to be waged, imo, even with them as a determent, they couldn't  fix the problem with out taking the extreme measures they did, How long before Emma Decides to Go Obito and  just brain wash every one?



The Phoenix Five are godlike beings who can essentially be anywhere they want in seconds and exact horrifying consequences with pin-point precision. They are, in fact, a _better_ deterrent because of this: Unlike a nuke, where you say "If I do something, we _may_ escalate the conflict so that we will eventually destroy each other", the Phoenix Five makes people say "If I do something, they _will_ destroy _me_ and _only me_ *instantly.*" There's no mutually-assured destruction; instead, there's immediate pinpoint punishment. That's why it makes sense from a geopolitical perspective.



> further more, once countries see their new [all white] over lords above them whats to stop them from looking for weapons in other places? [Demons alien tech just in general shit that we don't want going off]



In the Marvel Universe, nations largely use conventional weapons, powered by superscience or otherwise. If we get a nation which wields enough powerful weird shit that it can start hurting the Phoenix Force, then we can talk. But we saw that Namor basically demolished Wakanda on his own, and they are essentially a super-tech country. 



> Peace cannot be forced,



It often is. The idea of nuclear deterrence is essentially a forced peace, let alone "Cosmic God Deterrence".



> and  no ruling body should be completely uncountable.



That's a cute quote, but that means absolutely nothing in this argument.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Thats the thing on his worst day he was supposed to be chaotic neutral cause he fights against his pa
> 
> Weak man weak.
> 
> ...



That's funny. Because Wolverine cheated on Mariko with Mystique. He cheated on Melita too. Truly, he's the biggest slut in the Marvel Universe.


----------



## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

> Thats the thing on his worst day he was supposed to be chaotic neutral cause he fights against his pa


His alliance with the DOA just reeked of an alliance of convenience


----------



## Id (Oct 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> speaking of, why is the phoenix so invested in mutants it makes no sense


The purpose of the Phoenix is to assure the cycle of death, and rebirth. 

The key to all that lies in humanity. 

Humans will eventually evolve into abstract being replacing the current concepts. Mutants are the quantum leap in human evolution. 

Through humanity, they will begin the end. And End the beginning.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> You really can't pull out the "We disagree, but you're better than that" card when you're basically making shit up.


That's not what i'm doing. You seem to think that you are infallible and that  if some one is disagreeing with you its purely just to disagree




> If you'd like to take a show of hands on the matter, I think I'll probably come out ahead.


 their are like 3 other people who give a shit, 2 of them are heavily biased, and I could say the sky is blue and Banhammer would still disagree and try and insult me about it, so thats not really any thing i give a shit about.





> ... the fuck? Why would _terrorism_, of all things, increase?


no nuclear weapons [in theory] means they can act with out real impunity, but  with the overlords watching they'd need to be discreet about it.





> The Phoenix Five are godlike beings who can essentially be anywhere they want in seconds and exact horrifying consequences with pin-point precision. They are, in fact, a _better_ deterrent because of this: Unlike a nuke, where you say "If I do something, we _may_ escalate the conflict so that we will eventually destroy each other", the Phoenix Five makes people say "If I do something, they _will_ destroy _me_ and _only me_ *instantly.*" There's no mutually-assured destruction; instead, there's immediate pinpoint punishment. That's why it makes sense from a geopolitical perspective.


again that's assuming they are infallible. They can telleport  but they cannot be every where at once,and cannot do every thing





> In the Marvel Universe, nations largely use conventional weapons, powered by superscience or otherwise. If we get a nation which wields enough powerful weird shit that it can start hurting the Phoenix Force, then we can talk. But we saw that Namor basically demolished Wakanda on his own, and they are essentially a super-tech country.


we didn't really see any of wakandas good stuff, and  it was a short battle. I  don't expect a fall out war with doom no ending with a  big chunk of europe missing one way or another. but u missed the point, Take away nukes and the countries of the marvel u will just look for more powerfull weapons else where




> It often is. The idea of nuclear deterrence is essentially a forced peace, let alone "Cosmic God Deterrence".


 you defiantly have a point, but nukes only  keep things under wraps, there's still war. nukes made people  have to think before they fought

P5 will do the same thing but its not an absolute solution.

Real peace can only come through dialogue and understanding,the thinks  Chuck taught.





> That's a cute quote, but that means absolutely nothing in this argument.


 How the hell dose it not!?

They are the ruling body they put them selves in charge, they can't be impeached, they can't even be ignored completely.they had all the powe politically but no one to answer to when they messed up.

I'm gonna give you an actual quote

"the are three questions Free people have the right to as  any ruling government,  *In whose interests do you exercise power? To whom are you accountable? How can we get rid of you?*"

If you don't think that's relative in to whether five mortals should get to decide the state and fate of the entire world....


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> That's funny. Because Wolverine cheated on Mariko with Mystique. He cheated on Melita too. Truly, he's the biggest slut in the Marvel Universe.



He didn't cheat on Melita he got raped.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)

loool still makes no sense, there was an issue in watxm where they stated the phoenix was plowing through sentient plants with billions of inhabitants just to get to earth, that's doing a great job in keeping balance ehh


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> loool still makes no sense, there was an issue in watxm where they stated the phoenix was plowing through sentient plants with billions of inhabitants just to get to earth, that's doing a great job in keeping balance ehh



watch every one ignore your valid point.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

> He didn't cheat on Melita he got raped.



And what's you're excuse for Mariko?


----------



## Id (Oct 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> loool still makes no sense, there was an issue in watxm where they stated the phoenix was plowing through sentient plants with billions of inhabitants just to get to earth, that's doing a great job in keeping balance ehh



The phoenix also burns away that which doesn't work.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> And what's you're excuse for Mariko?



I'm not sure when your talking about, seeing as mariko has been dead for years?


Was it before or after she called off the wedding.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> ^Cyclops gets the girl. Clearly he's more desirable. Now quit giving Wolvie head and see the bigger picture.


Now, now... let's get it right: Aaron's the one giving him head, Narutossss is stuck with giving him a rimjob. 

I do have to say that watching all the butthurt Avenger fans having nervous breakdowns because most people think that Scott won in the end is so very entertaining to behold.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

-Accuse people of  being  butt hurt and sucking one characters Dick

-Act butt hurt and suck a characters dick in second part of post


The typical SCOTT-A-HOLIC


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> watch every one ignore your valid point.


of course  


Id said:


> The phoenix also burns away that which doesn't work.


so instantly mutating people who have lived most of their lives has normal people into mutants instead of assuring the slow and steady progress of evolution is as you say is making it *work*?


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> of course
> 
> so instantly mutating people who have lived most of their lives has normal people into mutants instead assuring the slow and steady progress of evolution is as you say is making it *work*?



The Pheonix has always been a Petulant child  amongst the Cosmic power houses to me.

you never see this kind of retarded hypocrisy from Galactus or Death


----------



## Id (Oct 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> so instantly mutating people who have lived most of their lives has normal people into mutants instead of assuring the slow and steady progress of evolution is as you say is making it *work*?


Cant say the phoenix simply gave mutant powers to non-mutants. That comic donsn't state so. 

For all we know, it simply reignited mutant population that had its power cut of from Wandas M-Day shenanigans. Which would make more sense.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> I'm not sure when your talking about, seeing as mariko has been dead for years?
> 
> 
> Was it before or after she called off the wedding.



Clearly it was while they were together.

Just tell me this... do you think it's fair that Cyclops is being punished by Captain America while other characters got off scott free for doing the same thing?



Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> Now, now... let's get it right: Aaron's the one giving him head, Narutossss is stuck with giving him a rimjob.
> 
> I do have to say that watching all the butthurt Avenger fans having nervous breakdowns because most people think that Scott won in the end is so very entertaining to behold.



That's so true.

First...



And now Cyclops was right. It seems that mutant extremists are always right.

The sad thing is that Nightcrawler was killed off as build up for this pathetic event.


----------



## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

I'm an Avenger fan and this shit has made me Pro Scott


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Clearly it was while they were together.


I asked you for a Specific event.



> Just tell me this... do you think it's fair that Cyclops is being punished by Captain America while other characters got off scott free for doing the same thing?




No its not fair

 but  ask any one I've always been in the "Wanda And Tony should pay" camp.

Hell I still  think Tony is straight up Responsible for  both Secret invasion and Dark Reign.

and I was firmly behind wolverines "Stab Wanda  on sight" policy

But in regards to wanda, She saved the world during  CC and Now in AVX

I'm sure is Scott Saves the world in a Month they will let him out too.




> The sad thing is that Nightcrawler was killed off as build up for this pathetic event.


 No he was  killed off for the sake of making Second coming seem more dire.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)

exactly... I can buy into galactus being a force of nature and balance because he is a living creature and it's only natural for living beings to want to survive by sustaining themselves, be it meat, vegetables or rich planets, you can't fault something for wanting to live but the phoenix just destroys shit, it just destroys for no good damn reason, look planet "A" is in my way, I could just fly around it if I wanted to, it'll only take a second, cause you know I'm a fucking cosmic powerhouse, but nope I'mma destroy it anyway.... just for the heck of it. 

This is the power cyclops wanted to bring to earth to inhabit a fucking child and you expect the avengers and world to sit back and say ok go ahead cykes bet the whole planets future on a cosmic being that destroys planets for the hell of it and a pre-teen...


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

It's kind of funny how in-story everyone makes a big fuss about Professor X dying. The guy dies so much it's practically his hobby. That and mindwiping his 'son'.



Captain America and Wolverine come off as arrogant jerks when they talk about X dying. As if they can come close to understanding what Professor X meant to Scott... the real First X-Man (Sorry Logan, no amount of retcons is going to change that).


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> That's not what i'm doing. You seem to think that you are infallible and that  if some one is disagreeing with you its purely just to disagree



I never said I was "infallible," so let's just burn that strawman, shall we?

My frustration is because this isn't a discussion or debate. It's you repeating points that multiple people, including myself, have shown don't work. It's not that I'm infallible, it's that we've seen multiple people call you out on this.



> their are like 3 other people who give a shit, 2 of them are heavily biased, and I could say the sky is blue and Banhammer would still disagree and try and insult me about it, so thats not really any thing i give a shit about.



It's not just Banhammer and people "biased" against you. The Cyclops picture I posted comes from another board completely, where the sentiment is largely the same. The point is that everyone is saying this, and not because they hate Cap and such but because it's a poorly-written piece of shit. Cap as we know him wouldn't act like that, just like Cyclops kicking Hope in the stomach. They are all being poorly written.

But as they are written, the point is that the Avengers were wrong. It's clear from how they acted that they were, and the story bears it out. While we make fun of the characters for it, it's mostly to forget the fact that the event mauled a great many of them in a way that we won't soon forget.



> no nuclear weapons [in theory] means they can act with out real impunity, but  with the overlords watching they'd need to be discreet about it.



Uh, they can do that _now_ *with* nuclear weapons. The deterrence of nuclear weapons hinges on the fear of escalation, but not on _any_ conflict. The Yom Kippur War shows this, as well as the Kargil Conflict. Hell, proxy wars like Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, the Arab-Israeli Wars and many other conflicts show this as well.

The difference is that there is an inherent reluctance to resort to nuclear weapons. There's _no_ reluctance for the Phoenix Five to use their powers. They can read minds from across the globe and pinpoint the people involved. You can say it's being forced on them, but judging it as a deterrent it's impossible to argue that it wouldn't be more effective than nuclear deterrence. Godlike beings are simply that, and you obviously don't recognize how powerful that really is.



> again that's assuming they are infallible. They can telleport  but they cannot be every where at once,and cannot do every thing



They don't _need_ to be infallible. They are already far, far, far, _far_ more effective and direct a deterrent than nuclear weapons. Anything that could be done under the Phoenix Five would be far easier to accomplish under the threat of nuclear deterrence, given that the Phoenix Five are pinpoint enough that they can _always_ dole out justice, while nuclear deterrence hinges on escalation of a conflict.



> we didn't really see any of wakandas good stuff, and  it was a short battle.



Well, yeah. He drowns the place before Scarlet Witch uses her special plot-powers to save them. 



> I  don't expect a fall out war with doom no ending with a  big chunk of europe missing one way or another.



Sure, but the Phoenix Five are Godlike Cosmic Beings. Damage means nothing to them because they can simply recreate it. Not saying Doom couldn't be troublesome, but remember that we are talking people who have insane amounts of cosmic power.



> but u missed the point, Take away nukes and the countries of the marvel u will just look for more powerfull weapons else where



And you miss the point the it's not lack of nukes that matters, but the new deterrent in place. In fact, with their powers they can win peace by things other than force, and we saw some of that in effect.



> you defiantly have a point, but nukes only  keep things under wraps, there's still war. nukes made people  have to think before they fought
> 
> P5 will do the same thing but its not an absolute solution.



It will be a far superior solution in terms of creating peace. I'm not claiming it's absolute, but the level of deterrence is on a whole different plane. Along with that is the ability of the Phoenix Five to solve basic problems which lead to and feed such conflicts.



> Real peace can only come through dialogue and understanding,the thinks  Chuck taught.



That's nice and all, but that's not really the argument.



> How the hell dose it not!?
> 
> They are the ruling body they put them selves in charge, they can't be impeached, they can't even be ignored completely.they had all the powe politically but no one to answer to when they messed up.
> 
> ...



The argument is not whether I'm advocating Phoenix-Fascism, but whether or not they are a logical deterrence to conflict. That is what I took issue with, and you haven't brought up anything that really contradicts it. As it stands, Lee is right and your use of the clip completely misses what they were talking about.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Captain America and Wolverine come off as arrogant jerks when they talk about X dying. As if they can come close to understanding what Professor X meant to Scott... the real First X-Man (Sorry Logan, no amount of retcons is going to change that).


Umm even with out the Retcons, Chuck is the guy that Brought Logan to the light, helped him become a man, and gave him  a home, Family and a purpose.

Wolverine has always had a close to connection to Chuck


----------



## creative (Oct 4, 2012)

Speaking as an avenger fan, this shit was painful to bear. Scott was be a bonehead at the end but really avengers?


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

> No he was killed off for the sake of making Second coming seem more dire.



Second coming was part of the build up for this event.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Umm even with out the Retcons, Chuck is the guy that Brought Logan to the light, helped him become a man, and gave him  a home, Family and a purpose.
> 
> Wolverine has always had a close to connection to Chuck



I never said that they didn't have a close connection. It's just that Scott's connection is much greater. Scott was basically his first son and for a long time was a standout example of Proffessor X's ideals. In fact, I believe that in this very event he said that Scott was his favorite. I'll look for it.

Wolverine can't touch that.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> I never said I was "infallible," so let's just burn that strawman, shall we?
> 
> My frustration is because this isn't a discussion or debate. It's you repeating points that multiple people, including myself, have shown don't work. It's not that I'm infallible, it's that we've seen multiple people call you out on this.


 no for hours its been you and  me, back and forth. you have said nothing to disprove what i say, Just cause i have narutoss backing me doesn't make every thing you've said "doesn't work"





> It's not just Banhammer and people "biased" against you. The Cyclops picture I posted comes from another board completely, where the sentiment is largely the same. The point is that everyone is saying this, and not because they hate Cap and such but because it's a poorly-written piece of shit. Cap as we know him wouldn't act like that, just like Cyclops kicking Hope in the stomach. They are all being poorly written.


see i don't know where you are b ut  where i am there a tons of people saying no scott was wrong, further more the internet has and will never be the majority of consensus




> But as they are written, the point is that the Avengers were wrong.


 no  from as it is written Scott was wrong, hence why he went nuts killed X, and is now in prison, you can warp it how you want but argue with the ink



> Uh, they can do that _now_ *with* nuclear weapons. The deterrence of nuclear weapons hinges on the fear of escalation, but not on _any_ conflict. The Yom Kippur War shows this, as well as the Kargil Conflict. Hell, proxy wars like Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, the Arab-Israeli Wars and many other conflicts show this as well.


 you have any idea how worse those conflicts would of been with out the fear of nukes?



> The difference is that there is an inherent reluctance to resort to nuclear weapons. There's _no_ reluctance for the Phoenix Five to use their powers. They can read minds from across the globe and pinpoint the people involved. You can say it's being forced on them, but judging it as a deterrent it's impossible to argue that it wouldn't be more effective than nuclear deterrence. Godlike beings are simply that, and you obviously don't recognize how powerful that really is.


 i do recognize there power but  they were shown many times to be fallible and  not completely Omnipotent, the fact they could be beaten at all shows this.




> They don't _need_ to be infallible. They are already far, far, far, _far_ more effective and direct a deterrent than nuclear weapons. Anything that could be done under the Phoenix Five would be far easier to accomplish under the threat of nuclear deterrence, given that the Phoenix Five are pinpoint enough that they can _always_ dole out justice, while nuclear deterrence hinges on escalation of a conflict.


 i refer back to my point about terrorism increase, they are not so all seeing that they can stop a suicide bomber in a  crowded street while their fucking with he ice caps or what ever thing they thought needed "Fixing"




> Well, yeah. He drowns the place before Scarlet Witch uses her special plot-powers to save them.


 i  don't belive that all of wakandas military might was in that one section is my point





> Sure, but the Phoenix Five are Godlike Cosmic Beings. Damage means nothing to them because they can simply recreate it. Not saying Doom couldn't be troublesome, but remember that we are talking people who have insane amounts of cosmic power.


I  never saw them doing any reseruecting so i doubt it, from what we saw for all their power they were still really limited.

didn't restart mutant kind, didn't cure aids ect.




> And you miss the point the it's not lack of nukes that matters, but the new deterrent in place. In fact, with their powers they can win peace by things other than force, and we saw some of that in effect.


 No we didn't We saw force dissarmorment, brain washing and eventual hell dimension prisons. and dont put that last one all on the avengers from what ive herd  Illanya was going to do some thing like that eventually any way





> It will be a far superior solution in terms of creating peace. I'm not claiming it's absolute, but the level of deterrence is on a whole different plane. Along with that is the ability of the Phoenix Five to solve basic problems which lead to and feed such conflicts.


 They never presented a solution to the mast basic cause of conflict





> That's nice and all, but that's not really the argument.


 it is in terms that what they were doing was ultimately pointless





> The argument is not whether I'm advocating Phoenix-Fascism, but whether or not they are a logical deterrence to conflict. That is what I took issue with, and you haven't brought up anything that really contradicts it. As it stands, Lee is right and your use of the clip completely misses what they were talking about.


ill agree we wen't of tangent, but the clip is relevant.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Second coming was part of the build up for this event.


 no it wasn't, AVX wasn't even a thought at that point.



Lee-Sensei said:


> I never said that they didn't have a close connection. It's just that Scott's connection is much greater. Scott was basically his first son and for a long time was a standout example of Proffessor X's ideals. In fact, I believe that in this very event he said that Scott was his favorite. I'll look for it.
> 
> Wolverine can't touch that.


 I will admit i miss read what you said a little, But to say wolverine  has absolutely no idea is  frankly not giving enough credence to Wolverine and chucks relationship.

Wolverine punched Scott when he found out Chuck was alive and Scott didn't bother to say any thing.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> -Accuse people of  being  butt hurt and sucking one characters Dick
> 
> -Act butt hurt and suck a characters dick in second part of post
> 
> ...


Don't have to accuse when it's laid out for the world to see. 



Laughing at butthurt = being butthurt now. Good to know, brother.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> Don't have to accuse when it's laid out for the world to see.


 only one acting butt hurt is  you and scott apologist bro 




> Laughing at butthurt = being butthurt now. Good to know, brother.



umm i think Being But hurt makes you butthurt




(i can play that game too)


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> *Yeah, I'm not wasting my time with your truther-like argument that is detached from reality.*







Guy Gardner said:


> Except your assertion doesn't _follow_ logic. The whole point of that video is the idea of nuclear weapons as a stabilizing force in certain ways, preventing a conventional conflict because the possibility of it escalating into a nuclear exchange (Which, I'll point out, isn't necessarily true. The whole point about Israel belies that the Arab countries found the strategy of war with Israel to not work. Hell, they invaded 6 years after Israel gained nuclear weapons. The Arab-Israeli Conflict doesn't break down to one having nukes and the others not...). By taking away this deterrent, it opens up the possibility of a winnable conventional war, thus increasing the possibility of going to war because they believe the goals are achievable without sparking a mutually-assured destruction event. Things are much different than they were in the 1980's, though, and the nuclear deterrent doesn't necessarily apply in these circumstances as much as it used to. But the point remains: Superman was just taking away the missiles without putting another deterrent in there to prevent these possible wars.
> 
> It _doesn't_ apply to the Phoenix Five situation because they are replacing one deterrent (nuclear weapons) with another (themselves), along with them attempting to creating a post-scarcity environment. They have the power to mediate conflicts, to enforce such things and to eliminate the reasons for conflict.
> 
> So it _is_ logical. In fact, it's one of the least objectionable parts of the entire storyline. Don't go around ripping people when you obviously don't know shit about what you are talking about.



you just can't help yourself guy :/


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> no it wasn't, AVX wasn't even a thought at that point.
> 
> I will admit i miss read what you said a little, But to say wolverine  has absolutely no idea is  frankly not giving enough credence to Wolverine and chucks relationship.
> 
> Wolverine punched Scott when he found out Chuck was alive and Scott didn't bother to say any thing.



They've already said that everything from House of M was leading up to this point. And even if that wasn't true, everything since Messiah Complex was.

Again... Wolverine's relationship with him is very significant. But Scotts relationship with Professor X is probably the most significant.

I'll say this though... the writers are to blame. They took a dump on most of the major characters and wrote everyone out of character. It's just that Cyclops got the worst of it.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> They've already said that everything from House of M was leading up to this point. And even if that wasn't true, everything since Messiah Complex was.


 , That doesn't mean that its littaly all connected, just that events that happened in that story work as a good lead up to this.

you really think any writers at marvel have that great of foresight





> I'll say this though... the writers are to blame. They took a dump on most of the major characters and wrote everyone out of character. It's just that Cyclops got the worst of it.


 I s till don't think any one was written out of character, every thing done was in every ones ability to do [the P5 all get a pass for any evill actions via  evil fire bird]


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> only one acting butt hurt is  you and scott apologist bro
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


>


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> no for hours its been you and  me, back and forth. you have said nothing to disprove what i say, Just cause i have narutoss backing me doesn't make every thing you've said "doesn't work"



No, this is endemic of _any_ argument you get into. I never mentioned narutosss, so that's not what I was saying.



> see i don't know where you are b ut  where i am there a tons of people saying no scott was wrong, further more the internet has and will never be the majority of consensus



This is true, I suppose. Though I could write more on the subject, I don't find this to be the time or the thread to do so.



> no  from as it is written Scott was wrong, hence why he went nuts killed X, and is now in prison, you can warp it how you want but argue with the ink



And as it is written is _stupid_. That's whole point of all the arguments, if you haven't noticed.



> you have any idea how worse those conflicts would of been with out the fear of nukes?



They simply wouldn't have occurred if nuclear deterrence were replaced by the Phoenix Five.



> i do recognize there power but  they were shown many times to be fallible and  not completely Omnipotent, the fact they could be beaten at all shows this.



By two people with plot-specific powers, not people with conventional weapons.



> i refer back to my point about terrorism increase, they are not so all seeing that they can stop a suicide bomber in a  crowded street while their fucking with he ice caps or what ever thing they thought needed "Fixing"



They may not be able to stop the suicide bomber... but they could read minds and find where the bomb was built. They could dismantle Hezbollah with their near-omnipresence granted to them. Terrorist organizations could no longer exist with something of their power.

So yes, there could be spats of random violence, but that's profoundly different than terrorism. The threat of overwhelming immediate force and how it can be applied by godlike beings makes it almost impossible.



> i  don't belive that all of wakandas military might was in that one section is my point



I don't believe it would have mattered, anyways. Again, the only thing that really hurt them was special plot powers. Anything else did barely anything.



> I  never saw them doing any reseruecting so i doubt it, from what we saw for all their power they were still really limited.



They created giant, intricate structures in the most inhospitable areas of the world. Plus we know that they could essentially burn the world away and recreate it anew; if they couldn't, why was that the mantra of evil Scott? While they might be individually weaker, combined I don't see why this would be much of a problem.



> didn't restart mutant kind, didn't cure aids ect.



That doesn't mean they can't do what I said. We've seen them create such things before, and the main thing about the Phoenix is about death and rebirth, destruction and recreation.



> No we didn't We saw force dissarmorment, brain washing and eventual hell dimension prisons. and dont put that last one all on the avengers from what ive herd  Illanya was going to do some thing like that eventually any way



First off, free power, free food, free shelter? You have such a selective memory.

And again, you are dodging the question again: nothing you say relates to what I was addressing. You say they'll look for new weapons, but I disagreed and said not only can they make it impractical for them to do so, but they can make it pointless to continue the conflicts that make these weapons necessary. You don't address that at all.



> They never presented a solution to the mast basic cause of conflict



You mean fighting over scarce resources? Uh, it's like the first fucking thing they show after they get turned into gods.



> it is in terms that what they were doing was ultimately pointless



Uh, not because the reason you are citing, though.



> ill agree we wen't of tangent, but the clip is relevant.





No, it isn't. The entire reason I even engaged this argument was because it wasn't, and it's easily provable through a knowledge of recent history and geopolitics. The entire discussion and explanation of nuclear deterrence, it's history, how it works, and such, is _because_ it's completely irrelevant.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> you just can't help yourself guy :/



History and geopolitics are what I got my degrees in. I just... can't let that sort of bullshit pass, not when there are basic facts and evidence to refute it. I could never forgive myself if I just let it go.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> , That doesn't mean that its littaly all connected, just that events that happened in that story work as a good lead up to this.
> 
> you really think any writers at marvel have that great of foresight



You're not getting what I was saying. The parts of each event lead up to this moment. Whether they're part of the bigger picture or not.



> I s till don't think any one was written out of character, every thing done was in every ones ability to do [the P5 all get a pass for any evill actions via  evil fire bird



Do you think the Scott is more at fault than Wanda? Do you think that he was worse than Wanda and that her situation is more excusable than his?

Yes. They're out of character. Say what you want, but Captain America was a jerk who threw his wait around and was obsessed with being right. He gave orders on two occasions to kidnap a teenage girl.

Cyclops and Captain America normally would be able to sort things out rationally. They wouldn't start a fight so quickly.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> No, this is endemic of _any_ argument you get into. I never mentioned narutosss, so that's not what I was saying.


Your saying that because you argued and you got some one like lee and shadow  more or less agreeing with you some how one the argument even though i have counter argued every step of the way





> And as it is written is _stupid_. That's whole point of all the arguments, if you haven't noticed.


 It's stupid cause you don't agree with it, that alone dose not make it stupid.




> They simply wouldn't have occurred if nuclear deterrence were replaced by the Phoenix Five.


 You have no guarantee of that





> By two people with plot-specific powers, not people with conventional weapons.


 They got  played by spider-man, and Professor X it was more then just hope and wanda





> They may not be able to stop the suicide bomber... but they could read minds and find where the bomb was built. They could dismantle Hezbollah with their near-omnipresence granted to them. Terrorist organizations could no longer exist with something of their power.


 they would take out one cell, but what about the next and then the next, what if  their are tons of bombings all at once, what if they hire some one like faust  to  use  people as sleeper agents, there are to many varribles



> So yes, there could be spats of random violence, but that's profoundly different than terrorism. The threat of overwhelming immediate force and how it can be applied by godlike beings makes it almost impossible.


 you underestimate how far humanity will go to eliminate its enemies






> They created giant, intricate structures in the most inhospitable areas of the world. Plus we know that they could essentially burn the world away and recreate it anew; if they couldn't, why was that the mantra of evil Scott? While they might be individually weaker, combined I don't see why this would be much of a problem.


we have no way of  knowing, but can u honestly say emma wouldn't Resurrect her students if she had the power to do it. to me that's a good indicator.




> That doesn't mean they can't do what I said. We've seen them create such things before, and the main thing about the Phoenix is about death and rebirth, destruction and recreation.


 then why didn't they do any meaningful recreation or rebirth? hundreds of thousands dying from aids and the Top of there list is to fuse the Tetonic plates and put Crab legs on whales?





> First off, free power, free food, free shelter? You have such a selective memory.


 I don't have a selective memory, i just find the things they did wrong to be a bigger issue then the things they did right.

Doom did good things when he was in charge too doesn't mean he shouldn't have been stopped



> And again, you are dodging the question again: nothing you say relates to what I was addressing. You say they'll look for new weapons, but I disagreed and said not only can they make it impractical for them to do so, but they can make it pointless to continue the conflicts that make these weapons necessary. You don't address that at all.


 i thought i did, Giving people water wont solve the conflict of Jerusalem, and religious and racial prejudic





> You mean fighting over scarce resources? Uh, it's like the first fucking thing they show after they get turned into gods.


Uhh religious conflict?





> Uh, not because the reason you are citing, though.


 dood seriously





 i can post out of date face palm images to





> No, it isn't. The entire reason I even engaged this argument was because it wasn't, and it's easily provable through a knowledge of recent history and geopolitics. The entire discussion and explanation of nuclear deterrence, it's history, how it works, and such, is _because_ it's completely irrelevant.


It is no t irrelevant, Nuclear deterrence didn't become a lessened thing since the cold war, its still very much in place, the same reason it was stupid for superman to do it,  makes it stupid for the p5 to  do it.



> History and geopolitics are what I got my degrees in. I just... can't let that sort of bullshit pass, not when there are basic facts and evidence to refute it. I could never forgive myself if I just let it go.


 more like your ego is so massive, that no matter what you are right, if some one has a counter argument? they are  trolling or delusional. cause its not like any one else here is an educated man or any thing.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> You're not getting what I was saying. The parts of each event lead up to this moment. Whether they're part of the bigger picture or not.


 You are working on the assumption that when Fraction went "lolo kurt dies" AVX had any thing to do with it, it didn't






> Do you think the Scott is more at fault than Wanda? Do you think that he was worse than Wanda and that her situation is more excusable than his?


 no i think its the same level 



> Yes. They're out of character. Say what you want, but Captain America was a jerk who threw his wait around and was obsessed with being right. He gave orders on two occasions to kidnap a teenage girl.


 you are wrong, it was never about being right, It was about saving the damn world. your failure to understand that is on you not the writers



> Cyclops and Captain America normally would be able to sort things out rationally. They wouldn't start a fight so quickly.


 With the road cyclops has been going down since after messiah complex i don't believe that, at all. fact is he has taken the hard liner, border line extremist point many times before this.

to say he was not capable of this is wrong


Any Way i'm Done For the night, Guy if you see this, prove me wrong be the bigger man and let it drop will argue about some thing new tomorrow.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> You are working on the assumption that when Fraction went "lolo kurt dies" AVX had any thing to do with it, it didn't
> 
> no i think its the same level
> 
> ...



Zen-Aku, have you ever defended Scarlet Witch over Cyclops?

Again... each miniseries led up to this point. Nightcrawler dying probably wasn't something major that led to AvX, but it was apart of the events leading up to it. That's my point.

Was it about saving the world when Cyclops didn't do anything wrong and was being attacked by Captain America and his thugs for it?

And read it again... Cap says that he was right and that Cyclops loses so many times... it's like he's a toddler throwing a temper tantrum because he didn't get his way.

Cyclops has become more merciless. That's true. But another big part of his character is that he stays in control. IIRC the Phoenix takes the personality traits of the Host and amplifies them. That's why Jean Grey became more emotional, Namor became more of a violent angry dick, and Cyclops remained in control.

He wasn't capable of this until the Avengers screw things up.

And even in the X-Men series, I'd defend Cyclops' actions more times then not. In the Marvel Universe most humans are bastards. But in X-Men comics... their monsters. Ordering the deaths of genocidal villains to protect you're dying race is not wrong. And screw Hank for saying it was. After that he went to work for Wolverine. The same guy who not only led the team, but kept it going after Cyclops disbanded it.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 4, 2012)

Did someone just say "nuh-uh, my imaginary guy is so manly and totally un-gay, look at all the imaginary ass he's  getting"?

I mean, that he was always a homoerotic proxy for underdeveloped tweens dealing with their confusing raging hard-ons, , well, that was already known, (I mean, this is the hairy guy FROM CANADA who "pops his bones" every time he has strong feelings about something, like Scot or AIM people in tight yellow spandex, they were never going for subtlety there) and we accept those who have latched onto that for a bit too long, but this?

This is just uncomfortable homo-erotic latching.
I mean, everything makes a 1000* more sense now, but still, dude, uncomfortable


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> I s till don't think any one was written out of character, every thing done was in every ones ability to do [the P5 all get a pass for any evill actions via  evil fire bird]



When Cap sees a nation being ravaged, people dieing, he jumps into crisis management mode, instantly getting people moving on saving as many lives as possible.

He does NOT turn to the leader of said nation and say "I told you Scott was a bad guy!"

Most everyone who had an influence on the plot was written out of character at least once, to deny that just means you misunderstand the characters.



Guy Gardner said:


> And as it is written is _stupid_. That's whole point of all the arguments, if you haven't noticed.



This cannot be overstated.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 4, 2012)

It's why the conversation in that clownish prison is so amusing

Scott is standing there, cool and collected and steve is a like a midwife on PMS flipping her shit over her hurt feelings.

YOU KILLED XAVIER
"Eh. I'm bummed but it wasn't that simple."
HE WAS A GREAT MAN
"Really? You know that because of the whole five minutes you spent with him?"
I'LL BE THE SAVIOR OF MUTANTKIND NOW
"Great! We need all the help we can get"
DON'T YOU DARE TURN THIS INTO A WIN
"Yeah, it was never about "wining", you see, I'm not an overcompensating prat. My people are well. Your people are well. Both the Human and the Mutant race were saved, Hurray!"
I PITY YOU
Surprisingly enough, I don't really care what you think
WOLVERINE HELP ME OUT HERE
bub bub snikt bub eulogy
Sure Logan, don't forget to tell everyone about Xavier's dream where you lead a terrorist death cell with no accountability whatsoever! He would have liked that


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 4, 2012)

I wonder if Logan will have the good taste of burring Xavier next to the Vulcan memorial, or if he's going to give into his ultimate homoerotic Scott Summers projection fantasy, and make a Xavier memorial right next to Jean Grey's, so he can masturbate to the man's dead wife and father figure at the same time.

I bet that's what he does with the diamond tree. He's collecting them and slowly building up his Emma Frost blow up sex doll


----------



## Michael Lucky (Oct 4, 2012)




----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

^Hilarious.

Captain America said the Ends don't Justify the means right next to Wolverine. That's priceless.

@Banhammer The funny thing about it is that Captain America was the one who kept on bringing up 'being right' and 'winning'.

Cyclops mentioned winning once after the Avengers kidnapped Hope.


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 4, 2012)

Es said:


> I'm an Avenger fan and this shit has made me Pro Scott


I  have never cared for Cyclops, and this event has made me feel more for him.





Banhammer said:


> Did someone just say "nuh-uh, my imaginary guy is so manly and totally un-gay, look at all the imaginary ass he's  getting"?


Yes, yes they did. At which point, the conversation went from heated to just plain awkward and uncomfortable.


----------



## Michael Lucky (Oct 4, 2012)

Im looking forward to scott's future role, i like how his character developed and the implications of what just happened


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

I deleted my post last night because I felt I'd revisit this when I had time the next day. I wanted to give myself time to cool down and gather my thoughts.

At this point, I'll simply address what matters, as the rest of your post is mostly made up of bald assertions and useless hypotheticals that only really obfuscate the obvious.



Zen-aku said:


> It is no t irrelevant, Nuclear deterrence didn't become a lessened thing since the cold war, its still very much in place, the same reason it was stupid for superman to do it,  makes it stupid for the p5 to  do it.



No. I'll try to use small words, but we are talking about a big boy topic, so I can't promise anything:

The video is talking about Superman taking away a deterrent and not putting another one in place. That's the whole point of the video. The Phoenix Five are taking away a deterrent and replacing it with another one. That's inherently different no matter what you try to say.

That you have continually attempted to avoid this argument, to bury it under useless tangents and either deliberately misinterpret my words or lack the reading comprehension to understand them has been a constant frustration. For example



> Your saying that because you argued and you got some one like lee and shadow more or less agreeing with you some how one the argument even though i have counter argued every step of the way



The word "endemic" means "native, natural to, a natural characteristic of". While I can concede that perhaps my original posting where I pointed out that I've seen multiple other posters run into the same problems I'm running into you with was not clear enough in intent, once I used the phrase "endemic of any argument you get into" I had stated exactly what I was saying in a clear and direct way.

It's not that Lee is arguing on my side and Narutossss is on your side. It's that your tactics never change, and those tactics are inherently dishonest. My entire argument about the video has been incredibly direct and should simply be a case of "Okay, so what. I was wrong. Whatever.", but through your sophistry you've turned it into an elaborate web of meaningless side arguments and hypotheticals that don't mean anything in regards to the argument we were having _in the first place._



> more like your ego is so massive, that no matter what you are right,



Yes, that's all I'm concerned with! I'm feeding my massive internet ego! RAWR!



> if some one has a counter argument? they are  trolling or delusional.



It's not "some one", it's you. Don't put my disdain onto anyone but _you._ I will gladly discuss things with anyone else on this board, _even Wuzzman_, but you are so concerned with "winning" an argument that you end up resorting to sophistry in every case.



> cause its not like any one else here is an educated man or any thing.



Not you, not in this subject, unless you think this:

[YOUTUBE]eEFB0ozhcUU[/YOUTUBE]

is the sort of argument an educated man makes.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)

michael lucky, you better spoiler tag that greg land shit now, before I neg you, trying to blind a man...


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> michael lucky, you better spoiler tag that greg land shit now, before I neg you, trying to blind a man...



That's not bad Land stuff, man. No porn face.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)

lands artwork and my eyes don't work well together period.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> lands artwork and my eyes don't work well together period.


----------



## creative (Oct 4, 2012)

I don't understand. are we all arguing about this event being shit and both sides being horribly stupid in dealing with one another?

I don't wanna back track either because I'm reading the defenders in afew minutes.


----------



## creative (Oct 4, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> It's why the conversation in that clownish prison is so amusing
> 
> Scott is standing there, cool and collected and steve is a like a midwife on PMS flipping her shit over her hurt feelings.
> 
> ...



oh and this. the only X-book I bother with nowadays are x-force and occasionally uncanny x-men. did beast on cyck snitch on wolverine yet? because that needs to happen. like now.


----------



## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

Wut


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

a creative color said:


> I don't understand. are we all arguing about this event being shit and both sides being horribly stupid in dealing with one another?



Most of us are. But not all.



> I don't wanna back track either because I'm reading the defenders in afew minutes.



It's really not worth it. By the by, is the Defenders okay? I wasn't a fan of the first arc.


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Yeah Scott is an egotist Alex. He sacrifices his innocence, freedom, soul and life if need be to so that you and the rest of mutantkind can live in peace. Meanwhile you monologue about how tough it is to be you while your girlfriend is in a coma. Seriously, go fuck yourself Alex. 

Sincerely, everyone that ever was and will be.

And Steve and Thor sure are big fans of Chuck. Understandable since they helped him with his cause and were his lifelong friends. Whats that? They only knew him for 5 minutes? And now they presume to know whats best for mutantkind? Sentinels of justice indeed.

If the tone of this book is going to be constantly anti-Cyclops I can do without it. Marvel can't set the man up as mutantkind's greatest hero and spend the rest of their time demonising him. Thats not how it works. At least they made everyone except Tony publicly and constantly lament Cap's fate after they inadvertently made him the hero of Civil War. The least they could do is extend Cyclops the same curtesy.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> It's really not worth it. By the by, is the Defenders okay? I wasn't a fan of the first arc.



It got better. Less serious plot regarding those wacky engines and more those wacky engines being used as catalysts for fun stories (Defenders fighting bad guys along 60's Fury).

Then it got cancelled.

On the issue though, admittedly I can't wait to see how Wanda shows up.


----------



## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Yeah Scott is an egotist Alex. He sacrifices his innocence, freedom, soul and life if need be to so that you and the rest of mutantkind can live in peace. Meanwhile you monologue about how tough it is to be you while your girlfriend is in a coma. Seriously, go fuck yourself Alex.
> 
> Sincerely, everyone that ever was and will be.
> 
> ...


He's not the Hero the Marvel U deserved. But the hero it needed

Sadly history has always belonged to the winners. And even from a POV he won


----------



## sanx021 (Oct 4, 2012)

Cap chose his leader perfectly someone that can easily be controlled also nice to know Alex is still a whiny bitch that needs to die he doesn't deserve to call Scott his brother . Why did cap pick Havok of all people Storm would have been better


----------



## creative (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Most of us are. But not all.
> 
> 
> 
> It's really not worth it. By the by, is the Defenders okay? I wasn't a fan of the first arc.



I like the silver aged ones because it has genuinely funny moments with doctor strange playing slap-stick/butt monkey and the hulk acts alot like his super hero squad variant. that said, I'm prepared for fracttion to disappoint me, although I enjoyed his ironman and I don't hate his thor, so I may end up recommending his run.


----------



## creative (Oct 4, 2012)

sanx021 said:


> Cap chose his leader perfectly someone that can easily be controlled also nice to know Alex is still a whiny bitch that needs to die he doesn't deserve to call Scott his brother . Why did cap pick Havok of all people Storm would have been better



because T'challa would have had an objection to it. that's alright though, storm is joining the uncanny x-force and helping psylocke lay slaughter to the infidels.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Is it just me, or does Havok look like John Constantine?



a creative color said:


> because T'challa would have had an objection to it. that's alright though, storm is joining the uncanny x-force and helping psylocke lay slaughter to the infidels.



Storm is critically underused as a leader in the X-Men and Marvel in general.


----------



## creative (Oct 4, 2012)

true enough guy, true enough. I want more of my delicious former african queen busting up badguys and pissing off emma.


----------



## tari101190 (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Is it just me, or does Havok look like John Constantine?


I just read alot of constantine in JLD and Books and magic. As soon as I saw Havok in the preview I instantly thought it was constantine too.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Yeah Scott is an egotist Alex. He sacrifices his innocence, freedom, soul and life if need be to so that you and the rest of mutantkind can live in peace. Meanwhile you monologue about how tough it is to be you while your girlfriend is in a coma. Seriously, go fuck yourself Alex.
> 
> Sincerely, everyone that ever was and will be.
> 
> ...



Alex? As in Scotts brother Havoc? That ungrateful little bastard needs to be slapped.

There was a panel of Scott saying that he makes the tough decisions so that they can live in peace. And he protected all mutants. And now he gets demonized for killing one man who mind wiped him as a child to benefit himself and had a crush on his teenage student. Right.

Cap and Thor are hilarious here. They barely interacted with him from what I remember.

If this is consequences I'll read it just for a laugh, and then trash it on the internet. I'll admit it. I'm still hoping that Cap and his gang get called out for their dickish behaviour and apologize to Scott. But that's not likely.



> Cap chose his leader perfectly someone that can easily be controlled also nice to know Alex is still a whiny bitch that needs to die he doesn't deserve to call Scott his brother . Why did cap pick Havok of all people Storm would have been better



Exactly. If Scott and Professor X. are gone, Storm is the next logical choice, but they said that Havocs going to be playing a big part in the MU from now on. He's already the leader of the X-Men... hopefully he'll follow Scotts path, become hated and locked up for superficial reasons, and trash talked by Scott.


----------



## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

Gage said:
			
		

> I have indeed read the first issue of Arena. It's well done, although if you hate the premise it probably won't change your mind. The end will make you mad and want to stick around to see Arcade brutally killed.


Fuck this gay ass earth


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Fear Itself was nothing bad. It was mindless action and nothing else. It wasn't good but it didn't actively suck either. It resulted in pretty much nothing. It had some cool moments and the rest was completely forgotten after the final issue ended.



I agree FI had great art especially for some action scenes (except, you know, for how little the Mighty actually appeared at the end compared to their hype) but consider  how it must have been for people following it month after month after month including tie-ins.

It's one of the things that turned me to trade waiting.

And some people would consider "nothing changed anyway" to be one of the biggest damning negatives.



Zen-aku said:


> Also Wolverine gets so much ass its not even funny, He is Currently Tapping a Fine Black Reporter
> 
> and If Uncanny X-force is To be believed he will be fucking  Psylocke on a regular basis in the near future



Could you be any more insecure and stereotypical a fan?


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Where are those scans from anyways?


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## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

> And some people would consider "nothing changed anyway" to be one of the biggest damning negatives.



Really the aftermath of AvX is worse then the aftermath of FI (Avengers Arena, Marvel taking a shit on Scotts character) Granted it has bright spots but I don't remember being as angry


----------



## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

I'm honestly considering just buying a couple extra issues of Avengers Arena just to destroy the issues

I'm surprised a comic book can make me this angry and I haven't even read it


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 4, 2012)




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## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

I miss the Extinction team and Utopia already

Also


			
				KG said:
			
		

> You may remember me saying a while back "I have a Merchandise Marvel for NYCC idea". Yes, it was CYCLOPS WAS RIGHT T-shirts.


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> If this is consequences I'll read it just for a laugh, and then trash it on the internet.



Its from the first issue of Uncanny Avengers.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Oct 4, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> It's why the conversation in that clownish prison is so amusing
> 
> Scott is standing there, cool and collected and steve is a like a midwife on PMS flipping her shit over her hurt feelings.
> 
> ...


Has sniktbub even told anyone outside of X-Force that they were indirectly responsible for an entire American town getting wiped off the map and being replaced by Tabula Rasa?


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## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> Has sniktbub even told anyone outside of X-Force that they were indirectly responsible for an entire American town getting wiped off the map and being replaced by Tabula Rasa?



Nope. Magneto figured it out on his own but decided to keep it to himself.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Oct 4, 2012)

sanx021 said:


> Cap chose his leader perfectly someone that can easily be controlled also nice to know Alex is still a whiny bitch that needs to die he doesn't deserve to call Scott his brother . Why did cap pick Havok of all people Storm would have been better


She's not Aryan enough. 



Es said:


> Fuck this gay ass earth


I'm betting that the characters that people actually like get slaughtered in the first issue... 

:rofl



Kanali said:


> Nope. Magneto figured it out on his own but decided to keep it to himself.


Yeah, I remember that from Uncanny, but you'd think that there'd have been more questions as to what the hell happened to the town that was there before it. That's one of my big issues about UXF when they do something that big and no one else noticed.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Aaron says that Scott was right, but that Cap was *justified for yelling at Scott like a pretentious hypocritical asshole*.


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## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

> I'm betting that the characters that people actually like get slaughtered in the first issue...


I reiterate I am ready to buy extra copies of this book just to destroy them


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## Starstalker (Oct 4, 2012)

Hello 

Since we do not have marvel comics for sale in my country, I do try to follow these events as much as I can. Please, correct me if I am wrong in my opinion because due to the lack of comics, I simply can't know as much as u guys.

IMO you guys are giving Scott more praise than requiered. The guy is a douchebag. You can say ''he did it all for his kind'', but the ends don't justify the means. He killed his father-figure, betrayed his allies(when he took the part of phoenix force from the other phoenix five), tried to destroy the world(when he became dark phoenix) and loads of other crap. IMO he is the bad guy and he deserves all that is coming to him.

Please, correct me if I am wrong.


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## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

The entire situation could have been avoided if the Avengers just fucked off and not poked a stick at a abstract entity and create the Phoenix 5 and not lead to a massive loss of life caused by the Avengers retarded actions as they played resistance when they did nothing wrong with their power and kept provoking them 

So yes both sides look like cunts slightly but Scott was the one in the right all along and it would have been better if they had just left him the fuck alone and carry on with his business instead of being a bunch of shitheads. Basically it's failed character assassination and bad writing thought the entire event


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## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Es said:


> The entire situation could have been avoided if the Avengers just fucked off and not poked a stick at a abstract entity and create the Phoenix 5 and not lead to a massive loss of life caused by the Avengers retarded actions as they played resistance when they did nothing wrong with their power and kept provoking them
> 
> So yes both sides look like cunts slightly but Scott was the one in the right all along and it would have been better if they had just left him the fuck alone and carry on with his business instead of being a bunch of shitheads. Basically it's failed character assassination and bad writing thought the entire event



had they just  let  scott have his way, We would of had Dark Phoenix hope with no way to stop her

Both sides were wrong in places, and both were right.


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## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

The Avengers were the one who gave him the Phoenix in the first place. They pretty much put the gun in his hand

A cosmic Gun


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## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Starstalker said:


> Hello
> 
> Since we do not have marvel comics for sale in my country, I do try to follow these events as much as I can. Please, correct me if I am wrong in my opinion because due to the lack of comics, I simply can't know as much as u guys.
> 
> ...



Es says it, but I want to reiterate it: the problems with what Scott did were largely driven by the acts of the Avengers throughout the story. To give some examples


Instead of trying to work with Scott on training Hope, he demands Scott give him custody of Hope.
In fighting for Hope, it's Tony Stark who ends up splitting the Phoenix Force into multiple bodies.
Instead of attempting peaceful talks with Cap, he antagonizes the Phoenix Five into acting, which ends up getting Wakanda and other places trashed and eventually turns Scott into Dark Phoenix.

At the end of the day, I think supporters of Scott recognize that he did bad thing (many of us have problems with the overall writing), but most of that is driven by the Avengers being stubborn fools. What ends up saving the world is exactly what Scott wanted to do in the first place, and there was nothing stopping the Avengers from simply assisting the X-Men in their plan.

Except, you know, Marvel Editorial.


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Es said:


> The Avengers were the one who gave him the Phoenix in the first place. They pretty much put the gun in his hand
> 
> A cosmic Gun



Even worse they beat him up and shoved the gun in his hand, continued to beat him and were horrified when he shot them in the leg.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Es said:


> The Avengers were the one who gave him the Phoenix in the first place. They pretty much put the gun in his hand
> 
> A cosmic Gun



better he have it at half power, and the possibility of being stopped then just being flat out screwed with hope having it.


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## Narcissus (Oct 4, 2012)

Starstalker said:


> He killed his father-figure,


Stop. Scott was under the influence of the Phoenix Force, which had been corrupting the five X-Men since they obtained it.





> betrayed his allies(when he took the part of phoenix force from the other phoenix five),


Stop. This was also part of the Phoenix's effects, made evident when Spider-Man was able to make Colossus and Illyana take each other out by mentioning how they would receive the others' portion of the Phoenix if one of them were to fall.





> tried to destroy the world(when he became dark phoenix)


Stop. He no longer had control of himself at that point and was even asking for someone to kill him.





> IMO he is the bad guy and he deserves all that is coming to him.


Scott is not blameless in this, but neither are the Avengers. They invaded the X-Men's home with an entire Helicarrier, demanded Hope and refused to leave without her, Wolverine tried to viciously murder her, and Tony separated the Phoenix into the Phoenix Five. 

Now the Avengers aren't facing any penalty for their part in this travesty, while Captain America acts smugly (when he isn't behaving like a petulant child). In addition, they have Magneto on wanted posters, when he helped them? Utter tomfoolery.


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## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> better he have it at half power, and the possibility of being stopped then just being flat out screwed with hope having it.



Except the Phoenix did what Scott said it would do and basiclly proved him correct about the entire thing and makes the Avengers look like mongoloids


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## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)

Es said:


> The Avengers were the one who gave him the Phoenix in the first place. They pretty much put the gun in his hand
> 
> A cosmic Gun



have you heard the saying, guns don't kill people, the man holding it does....


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## shit (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Storm is critically underused as a leader in the X-Men and Marvel in general.



comics where she's the leader are a fucking snorefest

in fact most comics she's in are a snorefest b/c marvel's too timid to not mary sue her

she hasn't had to face a real villain on her own since the shadow king back in the 90s


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## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

shit said:


> comics where she's the leader are a fucking snorefest
> 
> in fact most comics she's in are a snorefest b/c marvel's too timid to not mary sue her
> 
> she hasn't had to face a real villain on her own since the shadow king back in the 90s



I'm not disagreeing. That's kind of my point; she's one of the most popular X-Men and one of the best-known females in Marvel books... but she is basically a glorified background character. They need to figure out something to do with her.

Also, Comics Alliance posts  for AvX.


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## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> have you heard the saying, guns don't kill people, the man holding it does....



A cosmic mind altering gun with a will of its own?


----------



## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

So getting this


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## Narcissus (Oct 4, 2012)

Which is sad. Storm is one of my favorite Marvel characters but they really don't do enough with her.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)

no they don't let her be, last time dc tried to do something with "wonder woman" we got "amazons attack" and that terrible attempt at a live action series that got cancelled before it saw the light of day.... why give a darn about storm when you got rogue...


----------



## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> no they don't let her be, last time dc tried to do something with "wonder woman" we got "amazons attack" and that terrible attempt at a live action series that got cancelled before it saw the light of day.... why give a darn about storm when you got rogue...



What's so great about Rogue?


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

> IMO you guys are giving Scott more praise than requiered. The guy is a douchebag. You can say ''he did it all for his kind'', but the ends don't justify the means. He killed his father-figure, betrayed his allies(when he took the part of phoenix force from the other phoenix five), tried to destroy the world(when he became dark phoenix) and loads of other crap. IMO he is the bad guy and he deserves all that is coming to him.



1) Except sometimes the ends do justify the means.

2) Xavier had it coming. He was erasing his memories (again). That's probably part of the reason Scott can't remember everything that happened. Scott also begged him to stop repeatedly.

3) Emma said that she wanted to burn the planet and start over and it's hinted that she was thinking of betraying him (well... the Phoenix was corrupting her). Although it's unclear, I'll give you this one.

4) Except the X-Men and the Avengers turned him into the Dark Phoenix. And even then it wasn't him. It was the Phoenix. That's why he started begging them to kill him.

5) No other crap. Everything else was the P5 and the Avengers.

6) Nope. Cap is the bad guy and he deserves what's coming to him. You're also forgetting that they wouldn't have been corrupted without the Avengers meddling.

Cyclops isn't perfect, but he's better than the Avengers. Even Jason Aaron said Cyclops was right, but he's the only one getting in trouble. While Wolverine, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Iron Man, and Captain America run around having adventures.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Es said:


> Except the Phoenix did what Scott said it would do and basiclly proved him correct about the entire thing and makes the Avengers look like mongoloids



Scott said it could be controlled this was proven false in the end, False when hope got it in part 2, false when The p5 had it, and even false when hope got it in issue 12


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## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> no they don't let her be, last time dc tried to do something with "wonder woman" we got "amazons attack" and that terrible attempt at a live action series that got cancelled before it saw the light of day.... why give a darn about storm when you got rogue...



Dude rouges been shit since they turned her emo.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)

Es said:


> What's so great about Rogue?



what's so great about cyclops?


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Dude rouges been shit since they turned her emo.



Rogue emo?


I bet it's that bitch mystique isn't it?


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 4, 2012)

shit said:


> I thought you were narutossss


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)




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## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> better he have it at half power, and the possibility of being stopped then just being flat out screwed with hope having it.



Yeah because as we saw Hope killed a million humans with the Phoenix. Whats that? She gave it up and saved mutantkind? Well I'll be... 

She fucking controlled it when SHE USED IT TO SET EVERYTHING RIGHT IN AVX 12 AND GAVE IT UP AND RESTORED MUTANTKIND.

Could you just admit you were wrong? Or at least put 1 second of thought into writing posts.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Uh, the Linkara link doesn't hold because they were going to enforce peace themselves and create a post-scarcity environment. Way to fail at geopolitics.


and being under-check of no one, now tell me how well that  went for wakanda.



Zen-aku said:


> I'm still mad for him Turning Hellstorm Evil


well he was never a full blown hero to begin with 



Id said:


> The phoenix also burns away that which doesn't work.


and who is the phoenix to decide., it is one of the things that irks me about the phoenix, if the phoenix thinks you don't work you should die and be burn in the flames, now change phoenix with god, isn't that the purifiers reasoning?



Zen-aku said:


> The Pheonix has always been a Petulant child  amongst the Cosmic power houses to me.
> 
> you never see this kind of retarded hypocrisy from Galactus or Death


=/



Id said:


> Cant say the phoenix simply gave mutant powers to non-mutants. That comic doesn't state so.
> 
> For all we know, it simply reignited mutant population that had its power cut of from Wandas M-Day shenanigans. Which would make more sense.


which brings another problem, did this people wanted to be mutants to begin with, did they wanted the powers, what if your mutant power turns you into a giant fly and you don't like it, what happens then, why do they have to be forced into this


Narcissus said:


> Now the Avengers aren't facing any penalty for their part in this travesty, while Captain America acts smugly (when he isn't behaving like a petulant child). In addition, they have Magneto on wanted posters, when he helped them? Utter tomfoolery.


Scott was magneto's parole officer right?, and he is currently arrested, so...



Es said:


> Except the Phoenix did what Scott said it would do and basiclly proved him correct about the entire thing and makes the Avengers look like mongoloids


no the phoenix being "destroyed" or "disappearing" or whatever happened to it at the end was what got the mutants back, the opposite from what Scott wanted



Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) Except sometimes the ends do justify the means.


so much room to disagree with that statement alone you could drive a herd of elephants through it.


> 2) Xavier had it coming. He was erasing his memories (again). That's probably part of the reason Scott can't remember everything that happened. Scott also begged him to stop repeatedly.


erasing memories like the P5 were doing? and also xavier asked him to stop, scott instead went for more.



> 3) Emma said that she wanted to burn the planet and start over and it's hinted that she was thinking of betraying him (well... the Phoenix was corrupting her). Although it's unclear, I'll give you this one.


emma also asked him to stop her, and what he did? He went to look for hope, it was evident the power was too much for both of them so instead of pulling out something like magick and colossus he took her power, he should've known this was too much for him 


> 4) Except the X-Men and the Avengers turned him into the Dark Phoenix. And even then it wasn't him. It was the Phoenix. That's why he started begging them to kill him.


no, him taking all the power did, this is something he wasn't suppose to have and if he cared anything about mutants or anything else something he would've corrected immediately




> 6) Nope. Cap is the bad guy and he deserves what's coming to him. You're also forgetting that they wouldn't have been corrupted without the Avengers meddling.


no without the avengers meddling hope would've gone DP and then shit would've hit the fan big time before they even knew what to do



> Cyclops isn't perfect, but he's better than the Avengers. Even Jason Aaron said Cyclops was right, but he's the only one getting in trouble. While Wolverine, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Iron Man, and Captain America run around having adventures.


cyclops wasn't right about anything

Hope can control the phoenix-the moon happen

it is a mutant problem-then you go fuck the world over with your powers

the phoenix will restart the mutant race-you mean the phoenix being gone will do that

and the list goes on.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> Rogue emo?
> 
> 
> I bet it's that bitch mystique isn't it?



naw after the movie and evolution they went for that depressing somber  Drifter characterization.


i miss when she was a fun loving brick with bouts of pathos


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> naw after the movie and evolution they went for that depressing somber  Drifter characterization.
> 
> 
> i miss when she was a fun loving brick with bouts of pathos



so she's not that sassy country girl no more, I know she had a run has leader of a group of x-men, she any good in that?


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> so she's not that sassy country girl no more, I know she had a run has leader of a group of x-men, she any good in that?



yeah she did ok, made some questionable choices though




Kanali said:


> Yeah because as we saw Hope killed a million humans with the Phoenix. Whats that? She gave it up and saved mutantkind? Well I'll be...
> 
> 
> *Could you just admit you were wrong? Or at least put 1 second of thought into writing posts.*



lol oh the irony

She only did all that by   Learning form the avengers, and going the opposite direction.

she could not control it in part 1.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> and being under-check of no one, now tell me how well that  went for wakanda.



Don't harbor terrorists who, after failing to stop what they feel is a malicious force that will destroy the world, decide to antagonize that force's new hosts without provocation?


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> well he was never a full blown hero to begin with


 true, but siding with nazis, betraying men he fought beside and respected never seemed his style




> which brings another problem, did this people wanted to be mutants to begin with, did they wanted the powers, what if your mutant power turns you into a giant fly and you don't like it, what happens then, why do they have to be forced into this


 Apparently "tough shit evolution" is what allot  of X-fans are saying


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Don't harbor terrorists who, after failing to stop what they feel is a malicious force that will destroy the world, decide to antagonize that force's new hosts without provocation?



I love how nothing is ever the X-mens fault with you.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Apparently "tough shit evolution" is what allot  of X-fans are saying



Hasn't that always been the story, though? I mean, Beak was the poster child for that sort of stuff. It's not really new.


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> lol oh the irony
> 
> She only did all that by   Learning form the avengers, and going the opposite direction.
> 
> she could not control it in part 1.





Zen-aku said:


> Scott said it could be controlled this was proven false in the end, False when hope got it in part 2, false when The p5 had it, and even false when hope got it in issue 12



You claimed she couldn't control it in act 2 or AvX 12 either.

Which is just plain idiocy. Maybe your precious Avengers should have offered to help train Hope from the start instead of their genius plan of chucking her into space and clapping each other on the back for a job well done until she World War Hope's their asses.


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Apparently "tough shit evolution" is what allot  of X-fans are saying



Its either "tough shit evolution" or Celestial judgement. Ask AoA Logan which is better.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> I love how nothing is ever the X-mens fault with you.



That's not true. All the new mutations are their fault. I totally blame them for that.


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 4, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> Scott was magneto's parole officer right?, and he is currently arrested, so...



That takes a lot of reaching for that to be a valid reason to be looking for Magneto. He helped them stop Scott, and even got burned for it.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Hasn't that always been the story, though? I mean, Beak was the poster child for that sort of stuff. It's not really new.



the difference is he was  born to be a mutant.

2  people did some thing that turned hypothetical fly guy into a fly



Kanali said:


> Its either "tough shit evolution" or Celestial judgement. Ask AoA Logan which is better.



Wouldn't it be better to fight off the god like beings that have been playing with humanity  like they were toys since the dawn of the planet, rather then violationg peoples individual genetics


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> the difference is he was  born to be a mutant.
> 
> 2  people did some thing that turned hypothetical fly guy into a fly



That hypothetical guy was born a mutant too. It just wouldn't have manifested unless those two people fixed a fundamental flaw in the Universe.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Don't harbor terrorists who, after failing to stop what they feel is a malicious force that will destroy the world, decide to antagonize that force's new hosts without provocation?


avengers are not terrorist, and who branded them as such, I mean besides the people who don't have the power to do such thing CoughP5Cough.



Zen-aku said:


> true, but siding with nazis, betraying men he fought beside and respected never seemed his style


my take on it is that blackheart and the whole circle of four did something him, not like mind control, but maybe making him more in the edge so to speak


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Wouldn't it be better to fight off the god like beings that have been playing with humanity  like they were toys since the dawn of the planet, rather then violationg peoples individual genetics



Just three of them was enough to pimp slap Galactus into submission. Good luck fighting off an army of them. At it isn't a violation, its natural evolution.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> You claimed she couldn't control it in act 2 or AvX 12 either.
> 
> Which is just plain idiocy. Maybe your precious Avengers should have offered to help train Hope from the start instead of their genius plan of chucking her into space and clapping each other on the back for a job well done until she World War Hope's their asses.



nice strawman but you know that's not what they were going to do.

when sh got the power it was said that  her  trying to control it was not the right  way and that she couldn't do it



> That hypothetical guy was born a mutant too. It just wouldn't have manifested unless those two people fixed a fundamental flaw in the Universe.


 Prove it, cause  until you do it appears they gave people powers at random.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> the difference is he was  born to be a mutant.
> 
> 2  people did some thing that turned hypothetical fly guy into a fly



Except, you know, they are both random chance happening. Hell, he could have had the potential to be a mutant before Wanda the Multiversal Destroyer had a bad trip and fucked up reality.

So are you saying that they SHOULDN'T have undone what Wanda did?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> avengers are not terrorist, and who branded them as such, I mean besides the people who don't have the power to do such thing CoughP5Cough.



When you carry out an unprovoked, illegal military raid on someone, you kind of become a terrorist/criminal. Again, they are the ones antagonizing the beings they thought were going to destroy the world. _Why_ would you do that?


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> nice strawman but you know that's not what they were going to do.
> 
> when sh got the power it was said that  her  trying to control it was not the right  way and that she couldn't do it



Oh so when the Avengers said "we need to take her off-world" they meant something different than when they said "we need to take Hulk off-world".

When was that said? No one said it. Hope said she could see where the others went wrong and the fact that she was a White Phoenix proves she was in control. They just reminded her that she was chosen to restore mutant powers and thats what she did. 



Zen-aku said:


> Prove it, cause  until you do it appears they gave people powers at random.



Thats not how it works, they'd have to have an X-Gene in order to get mutant powers. Unless the Phoenix gave people X-Genes which makes no sense because Beast already proved that people still had X-Genes, they just weren't working.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 4, 2012)

Narcissus said:


> That takes a lot of reaching for that to be a valid reason to be looking for Magneto. He helped them stop Scott, and even got burned for it.


yeah but it is because of his early allegiance after all governments weren't really happy with this whole debacle and they probably want some heads to roll, magneto because of his past has pretty much a target on his back, I think they said as much on the last legacy, of course he has a whole lot of backing he can use to diminish his fault in courts and they pretty much let him walk out of being a terrorist before, so I doubt they going to much to him now that he helped save the world



Guy Gardner said:


> When you carry out an unprovoked, illegal military raid on someone, you kind of become a terrorist/criminal. Again, they are the ones antagonizing the beings they thought were going to destroy the world. _Why_ would you do that?


avengers are literally the world police, and the police can and would break into your house if they feel they need to, so that argument ain't flying


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Except, you know, they are both random chance happening. Hell, he could have had the potential to be a mutant before Wanda the Multiversal Destroyer had a bad trip and fucked up reality.


but we don't know that for sure. to me it looks random.



> So are you saying that they SHOULDN'T have undone what Wanda did?


I don't think its a black and white issue, I think Giving  the ability for mutant births back would of been a better option then Turning Sam the Banker from Oklahoma into a  human fly. Do you feel no empathy for him?


 As far as humanitys evolution is concerned, The inhumans, Children of the  Vault, Neo, and super humans in general show humanitys Evolution isn't a narrow hall way


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> As far as humanitys evolution is concerned, The inhumans, Children of the  Vault, Neo, and super humans in general show humanitys Evolution isn't a narrow hall way



what if the answer is extremis enhanced individuals, or _Homo Sinister_, what if it is robots, should all this options be just ignored for the mutant one?


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Oh so when the Avengers said "we need to take her off-world" they meant something different than when they said "we need to take Hulk off-world".


 Yes, They were  still exploring different options, First  priority was not having the rampaging fire bird come to the planet



> When was that said? No one said it. Hope said she could see where the others went wrong and the fact that she was a White Phoenix proves she was in control.


no it dosen't  Emma wore a white costume too, and she was deepfrying people







> Thats not how it works, they'd have to have an X-Gene in order to get mutant powers. Unless the Phoenix gave people X-Genes which makes no sense because Beast already proved that people still had X-Genes, they just weren't working.


 Beast proved that the X-Gene disappeared form every one but  still active mutants i belive


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> what if the answer is extremis enhanced individuals, or _Homo Sinister_, what if it is robots, should all this options be just ignored for the mutant one?



Don't Forget Homo Arachnus


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> avengers are literally the world police, and the police can and would break into your house if they feel they need to, so that argument ain't flying



No they aren't. This isn't like _Young Justice_, where the Justice League has a UN Mandate. Cap took his marching orders from the President, not the UN. He invaded a sovereign nation (Utopia) without any provocation, end of story.



Zen-aku said:


> but we don't know that for sure. to me it looks random.



So is the chance of being born with the mutant gene. My point is that becoming a mutant, one way or another, is inherently random. Sucks, but it's the truth.



> I don't think its a black and white issue, I think Giving  the ability for mutant births back would of been a better option then Turning Sam the Banker from Oklahoma into a  human fly. Do you feel no empathy for him?



I do, but I felt empathy for Beak, too. Whether it be because the Phoenix restored mutants or your mutant gene finally becomes active, they both occur suddenly and throw your life upside down. It comes with the territory, and since I didn't have a problem with mutants before I can't really have a problem with this, can I?



> As far as humanitys evolution is concerned, The inhumans, Children of the  Vault, Neo, and super humans in general show humanitys Evolution isn't a narrow hall way



Well, yeah. However, I don't think that means mutants shouldn't be brought back. They have just as much claim to exist as any of those, and they suffer for it more than just about anyone.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> No they aren't. This isn't like _Young Justice_, where the Justice League has a UN Mandate. Cap took his marching orders from the President, not the UN. He invaded a sovereign nation (Utopia) without any provocation, end of story.


 actually Tom Brevoot Has said Utopia has no real sovereignty,


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> I don't think its a black and white issue, I think Giving  the ability for mutant births back would of been a better option then Turning Sam the Banker from Oklahoma into a  human fly. Do you feel no empathy for him?



Its arguably worse for someone to turn into a human fly when they hit puberty than it is for Sam the Grown Man.




Zen-aku said:


> As far as humanitys evolution is concerned, The inhumans, Children of the  Vault, Neo, and super humans in general show humanitys Evolution isn't a narrow hall way



The Inhumans are the result of genetic experimentation, the Children of the Vault are stuck in another dimension and the Neo are extinct. Ordinary Joe Supehuman is also a fluke and not the result of evolution which seems to be what the Celestials are all about. Archangel didn't think that all the superhumans on Earth were enough to pass the Celestial Judgement so he decided to start from scratch with a global Tabula Rasa.



Zen-aku said:


> Yes, They were  still exploring different options, First  priority was not having the rampaging fire bird come to the planet



Smacking the cosmic force of death and rebirth with a hammer wasn't a bright idea either. Trying to stop its coming was futile and they were moving Hope no matter what, otherwise Cap would have waited until the Secret Avengers told him that the mission failed before moving in on Utopia.



Zen-aku said:


> no it dosen't  Emma wore a white costume too, and she was deepfrying people



You don't seem the least bit familiar with the Phoenix mythos. There's a difference between Emma's stylish white and gold strippers outfit and the White Phoenix of the Crown garment. 

Do some reading on the subject so I can argue with someone that knows what they're talking about.

)
)
)


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> avengers are not terrorist, and who branded them as such, I mean besides the people who don't have the power to do such thing CoughP5Cough.
> 
> my take on it is that blackheart and the whole circle of four did something him, not like mind control, but maybe making him more in the edge so to speak



The Avengers are terrorists. The ordinary people loved them before the Avengers interfered. It said so in Round 6 and 7. It was just the Avengers. And Obama, but he was buddy buddy with Norman Osborn so... yeah.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> The Inhumans are the result of genetic experimentation,


So are mutants via the celstials





> Archangel didn't think that all the superhumans on Earth were enough to pass the Celestial Judgement so he decided to start from scratch with a global Tabula Rasa.


 Archangle was crazy, Or are you thinking he was just in what he did too.





> Smacking the cosmic force of death and rebirth with a hammer wasn't a bright idea either.


 it was working befor  Protector fucked it up






> You don't seem the least bit familiar with the Phoenix mythos. There's a difference between Emma's stylish white and gold strippers outfit and the White Phoenix of the Crown garment.


In the  end its  just a costume, Saying you have control dose not mean you do, as the P5 were shown.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> actually Tom Brevoot Has said Utopia has no real sovereignty,


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> No they aren't. This isn't like _Young Justice_, where the Justice League has a UN Mandate. Cap took his marching orders from the President, not the UN. He invaded a sovereign nation (Utopia) without any provocation, end of story.


avengers are pretty much a branch of shield at this point (as evidenced in the last few years of how anything that affects S.H.I.E.L.D. affects the avengers and viceversa and how two avengers have been head of shield as of late ) shield works for the UN and is the world police hence the statement


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> The Avengers are terrorists. The ordinary people loved them before the Avengers interfered. It said so in Round 6 and 7. It was just the Avengers. And Obama, but he was buddy buddy with Norman Osborn so... yeah.



Regular people are stupid. Your  quick to give  Obama shit for trusting Osborn [after Osborn save his life] but forget that  Regular people Though Osborn was a hero who could be completely trusted.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Well glory be, Word of God and all (recent, too). It's still an unprovoked attack, though, and the Avengers are not official world police. But they have some amount of jurisdiction, depending on how the US justified breaking in, and that's more than I would have thought.


 well have to agree to disagree.





> And it was originally taken away by two mortals. I think we need to see whether the Phoenix Force simply mutated them or reactivated mutant genes in people who would have become mutants anyways.
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't _ethical?_ I'm not sure I agree with that. Again, for all we know these people could have become mutants pre-M-Day.


we'll have to wait and see


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> So are mutants via the celstials



Mutants manifested after thousands of years of evolution, all the Celestials did was plant the seed that made it possible. Inhumans use terrigen mists to artificially mutate themselves and have remained that way since the Kree first visisted.




Zen-aku said:


> Archangle was crazy, Or are you thinking he was just in what he did too.



Archangel wasn't crazy, he knew what he was doing. Just like Weapon Omega does. Doesn't mean they're not unjust evil assholes but there you have it. Being the Celestial Steward of Evolution makes him a bit more knowledgable on the subject than Wolverine. 





Zen-aku said:


> it was working befor  Protector fucked it up



Didn't the Phoenix blow up in their faces and nearly kill Thor? Otherwise this event is even dumber than I thought. 







Zen-aku said:


> In the  end its  just a costume, Saying you have control dose not mean you do, as the P5 were shown.



Its not just a costume, there's a higher meaning behind it which you'd know if you had read anything with the Phoenix in it other than AvX. The P5 did have control. The P4, P3, P2 and Dark Cyclops didn't. Because they're all imperfect hosts that had the Phoenix rammed down their throat by the Avengers.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> *The Avengers are terrorists.* The ordinary people loved them before the Avengers interfered. It said so in Round 6 and 7. It was just the Avengers. And Obama, but he was buddy buddy with Norman Osborn so... yeah.


I stopped reading there.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Regular people are stupid. Your  quick to give  Obama shit for trusting Osborn [after Osborn save his life] but forget that  Regular people Though Osborn was a hero who could be completely trusted.



They were Americans, right? The point is that it's the will of the people. The world accepted the P5 at the time and they hadn't done anything wrong. Then they broke into his house, had Thor brutalize a teenager, and kidnapped his teenage granddaughter.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Mutants manifested after thousands of years of evolution, all the Celestials did was plant the seed that made it possible. Inhumans use terrigen mists to artificially mutate themselves and have remained that way since the Kree first visisted.


 its still unnatural evolution caused by an outside force






> Archangel wasn't crazy.


 yes  yes he was. sane people don't rant, try to murder millions, and set them selves up  as rulers.







> Didn't the Phoenix blow up in their faces and nearly kill Thor? Otherwise this event is even dumber than I thought.


 not in te avengers tie in.









> Its not just a costume, there's a higher meaning behind it which you'd know if you had read anything with the Phoenix in it other than AvX. The P5 did have control. The P4, P3, P2 and Dark Cyclops didn't. Because they're all imperfect hosts that had the Phoenix rammed down their throat by the Avengers.


No they didn't Emma said she lost control when she nearly killed hawkeye.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> I stopped reading there.



Good. Because you obviously don't know what terrorism is.

Spider-Woman is so funny.



Guys! It's just a kidnapping! No biggy!


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> They were Americans, right? The point is that it's the will of the people. The world accepted the P5 at the time and they hadn't done anything wrong. Then they broke into his house, had Thor brutalize a teenager, and kidnapped his teenage granddaughter.



1. They had Brainwashed people before the avengers to action, so you cannot say they didn't do any thing wrong.

2. Thor punched a teenager,who was then standing perfectly fine at the end of the scene

3. Hope wanted to leave,and left willingly with them


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> avengers are pretty much a branch of shield at this point (as evidenced in the last few years of how anything that affects S.H.I.E.L.D. affects the avengers and viceversa and how two avengers have been head of shield as of late ) shield works for the UN and is the world police hence the statement



Pre-Secret Invasoin SHIELD was UN (Which doesn't make sense, really, but whatever), but that was dissolved and replaced with HAMMER, a US government agency. That was reformed into the current SHIELD. I think it's a US agency right now, like the movies, but I could be wrong.



Zen-aku said:


> well have to agree to disagree.



Are we disagreeing?



> we'll have to wait and see



Well, yeah. Though truth be told, I'm not sure it really matters in the long run.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Are we disagreeing?


 I...think so...?


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Good. Because you obviously don't know what terrorism is.


oh I don't know, please illustrate me on your definition of it because I'm new to this planet.


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> its still unnatural evolution caused by an outside force



Its natural evolution with potential added by an outside force. There was evolution on Earth before the Celestials came. 






Zen-aku said:


> yes  yes he was. sane people don't rant, try to murder millions, and set them selves up  as rulers.



Because he knew they were dead the moment the Celestials showed up for judgement anyways. In his mind it was better to give the Earth a second chance instead of letting it get destroyed out of sentimentality. Not saying he's right but there's reason and logic behind what he's doing not just "I'm sick of this, I'll just burn it all down and start over". Sane people don't rant? I guess no comic book character ever is sane. 



Zen-aku said:


> No they didn't Emma said she lost control when she nearly killed hawkeye.



There's a difference between accidentally overloading with powers you've had for 5 minutes and not knowing whether or not you kiled one of your best friends and undid it in the blink of an eye.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Its natural evolution with potential added by an outside force. There was evolution on Earth before the Celestials came.


it's not natural if the celestials caused it








> Because he knew they were dead the moment the Celestials showed up for judgement anyways. In his mind it was better to give the Earth a second chance instead of letting it get destroyed out of sentimentality. Not saying he's right but there's reason and logic behind what he's doing not just "I'm sick of this, I'll just burn it all down and start over". Sane people don't rant? I guess no comic book character ever is sane.


 i said more then just ranting, and the celestials have been beaten before, so i don't find  burning every thing down as the sane option





> There's a difference between accidentally overloading with powers you've had for 5 minutes and not knowing whether or not you kiled one of your best friends and undid it in the blink of an eye.


she had the powers for more then 5 minutes, hell it wasn't even the first time she had the pheonix right?


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Pre-Secret Invasoin SHIELD was UN (Which doesn't make sense, really, but whatever),* but that was dissolved and replaced with HAMMER, a US government agency.* That was reformed into the current SHIELD. I think it's a US agency right now, like the movies, but I could be wrong.


which doesn't make sense because how would the U.S. have the authority to do it, and then nonchalantly replace it with whatever it wants, S.H.I.E.L.D. story is convoluted, but if I'm correct in an issue of legacy (I'm pretty sure it was the brain washing one) they mentioned how they had re-purposed a shield hellicarrier into a school in africa, where it shouldn't be it was just an U.S. thing.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Guy is right, i believe it was stated Hammer was US only


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 4, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> avengers are not terrorist, and who branded them as such, I mean besides the people who don't have the power to do such thing CoughP5Cough.k


And I wonder, who created the Phoenix Five? 


Blackfeather Dragon said:


> yeah but it is because of his early allegiance after all governments weren't really happy with this whole debacle and they probably want some heads to roll, magneto because of his past has pretty much a target on his back, I think they said as much on the last legacy, of course he has a whole lot of backing he can use to diminish his fault in courts and they pretty much let him walk out of being a terrorist before, so I doubt they going to much to him now that he helped save the world


The point is that he shouldn't have been driven into hiding, and he shouldn't be on wanted posters. The fact that he wasn't protected, after he helped the Avengers stop Scott, says a lot.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

When the P5 did good, it was all X-men are awesome

When the p5 do bad its  all the avengers fault.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 4, 2012)

Es said:


> Wut



Captain America:
Scott Summers was a huge douchebag

Except when I was pinning medals of honor on him, or he was helping me during civil war.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> which doesn't make sense because how would the U.S. have the authority to do it, and then nonchalantly replace it with whatever it wants, S.H.I.E.L.D. story is convoluted, but if I'm correct in an issue of legacy (I'm pretty sure it was the brain washing one) they mentioned how they had re-purposed a shield hellicarrier into a school in africa, where it shouldn't be it was just an U.S. thing.



The US _created _S.H.I.E.L.D. in the first place, so their whole structure has never been really clear. I mean, the President disbanded what was supposed to be a UN-mandated organization. If I was to guess anything, they made it into a US organization to keep it into line with the Avengers movie franchise. Frankly, it's simpler that way.

And re-purposing something like that doesn't mean much: the Chinese re-purposed a Russian aircraft carrier into a hotel. Doesn't mean the Russians still have rights to it.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 4, 2012)

Narcissus said:


> And I wonder, who created the Phoenix Five?


well tony didn't instruct them to be the idiots they went on to be, and the P5 was an unexpected side effect to a desperate solution to a very dire problem, the "I can't control it" one hope was having with the phoenix 



> The point is that he shouldn't have been driven into hiding, and he shouldn't be on wanted posters. The fact that he wasn't protected, after he helped the Avengers stop Scott, says a lot.


he was walking on a fine thread before, the event of magneto not a hero specifically, and the reason why they let magneto walk out like he did was because steve promesing "he was a boyscout" now, I imagine if magneto was to go out of hiding it would be most likely the avengers would stand up for him, although I don't think is gonna happen because of that "Wanted" teaser marvel released.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> 1. They had Brainwashed people before the avengers to action, so you cannot say they didn't do any thing wrong.
> 
> 2. Thor punched a teenager,who was then standing perfectly fine at the end of the scene
> 
> 3. Hope wanted to leave,and left willingly with them



1. What!? Who did they brainwash.

2. Are you sure about that? Even if what you're saying is true... he still broke inside his house and beat him

3. Hope is a child left in Cyclops' care. And they didn't even know that she wanted to leave. They went their to take her away by force.

With each argument you're posts become more irrational and desperate.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1. What!? Who did they brainwash.


 Warlords, and soldiers  in Africa, Monstrous assholes to be sure, but still very wrong to do, and the start down a horrific path




> 2. Are you sure about that? Even if what you're saying is true... he still broke inside his house and beat him


 I'm sure, also the kid was rushing them. to say Thor beat him is a misrepresentationa of what actually happened



> 3. Hope is a child left in Cyclops' care.


By the man who kidnapped her.



> And they didn't even know that she wanted to leave. They went their to take her away by force.


 doesn't matter if she left with them willingly its not kidnapping



> With each argument you're posts become more irrational and desperate.


 says the guy arguing with the minimum amount of information


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 4, 2012)

emma frost's first sign of loosing her shit was when she started brain frying unpunished murderers and canibals

Which is really a lot more innocent than what X-Force does, but, once again, snikt wanking takes precedence over logic


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 4, 2012)

Brevoort himself said that the only difrence between what norman osborn and steve rogers did, was the president okayed it first.

So you know, the difrence between right and wrong is a foreign partisan puppet

COMICS EVERYBODY


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> it's not natural if the celestials caused it



The Celestials didn't cause it, mankind was already evolving. They just made it possible for mankind to evolve into superhumans i.e. mutants.



Zen-aku said:


> i said more then just ranting, and the celestials have been beaten before, so i don't find  burning every thing down as the sane option



You said ranting and setting himself up as leader. Which he isn't doing, he was appointed Steward by the Celestials and he is fulfilling his duties. He's not seizing power just for the sake of it.

Neither do I, but its not a crazy option. Its not the best option but if the end goal is "the survival of Earth and the existence of life on Earth" its a good option. You'd have to be a heartless monster to go through with it, which Archangel is. He's still not crazy. 




Zen-aku said:


> she had the powers for more then 5 minutes, hell it wasn't even the first time she had the pheonix right?



She had it literally for minutes previously and she spent her entire time trying not to explode. Yet fucking Cyclops can host the whole thing with no physical detriment. Great writing.

The point is she's still only human. Accidentally overexerting herself with new powers isn't strange, it happens all the time in the MU. Its certainly not a sign of losing control of the Phoenix because we've seen that that means losing touch with reality which Emma wasn't doing yet. Hell even experienced people use more force than intended when they're emotional.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 4, 2012)

Hope is an omega level mutant.
She can take the phoenix just fine, biologically speaking, if her mind isn't being thrown into an emotional clusterfuck

Like the one the avengers provided


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> The Celestials didn't cause it, mankind was already evolving. *They just made it possible for mankind to evolve into superhumans i.e. mutants.*


Thank you for agreeing with me not natural evolution.





> You said ranting and setting himself up as leader. Which he isn't doing, he was appointed Steward by the Celestials and he is fulfilling his duties. He's not seizing power just for the sake of it.
> 
> Neither do I, but its not a crazy option. Its not the best option but if the end goal is "the survival of Earth and the existence of life on Earth" its a good option. You'd have to be a heartless monster to go through with it, which Archangel is. He's still not crazy.


 no its still crazy, a rationale mind would never look at that option and find it viable.





> She had it literally for minutes previously and she spent her entire time trying not to explode. Yet fucking Cyclops can host the whole thing with no physical detriment. Great writing.
> 
> The point is she's still only human. Accidentally overexerting herself with new powers isn't strange, it happens all the time in the MU. Its certainly not a sign of losing control of the Phoenix because we've seen that that means losing touch with reality which Emma wasn't doing yet. Hell even experienced people use more force than intended when they're emotional.


listen, she said she couldn't control it. It was the first step . you can't say that her loosing control in an early part of the story has nothing to do with doing with her loosing control later like they are separate issues


----------



## Es (Oct 4, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Brevoort himself said that the only difrence between what norman osborn and steve rogers did, was the president okayed it first.
> 
> So you know, the difrence between right and wrong is a foreign partisan puppet
> 
> COMICS EVERYBODY



This event gets more and more retarded by the day


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Thank you for agreeing with me not natural evolution.



This is going in circles, I don't even remember why I'm arguing this with you.





Zen-aku said:


> no its still crazy, a rationale mind would never look at that option and find it viable.



More like ultra rational. He's not clouded by emotions, he's going for the most efficient way. Nothing he did can be described as insanity, just because you find it deplorable doesn't make it crazy. Everything about it is logical, reasonable and monstrous. Nothing about it is crazy. 

Its like trying to draw something on a piece of paper and you keep messing up to a point where its unacceptable. You can either try to salvage it by trying to make that ugly blob into something passable or do the more efficient thing and erase all of it and start over. Except this time the paper is Earth, the drawing is all life on Earth and the artist has no emotions or remorse and he needs to hand the project in to emotionless Space Gods that will destroy his studio if he doesn't do a good job.





Zen-aku said:


> listen, she said she couldn't control it. It was the first step . you can't say that her loosing control in an early part of the story has nothing to do with doing with her loosing control later like they are separate issues



She never said she lost control, she said she got mad and went too far.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> > More like ultra rational. He's not clouded by emotions, he's going for the most efficient way. Nothing he did can be described as insanity, just because you find it deplorable doesn't make it crazy. Everything about it is logical, reasonable and monstrous. Nothing about it is crazy.
> 
> 
> proclaiming his love for betsy, but sleeping with  pestilence any way isn't crazy?
> ...


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> proclaiming his love for betsy, but sleeping with  pestilence any way isn't crazy?



Banging Pestilence to ensure he has a powerful heir is coldly logical, not insane. Even if he was just banging Pestilence for the hell of it while seducing Psylocke he'd be no more crazy than Logan who proclaims his love for Jean/Melita yet has no problem fucking his Japanese ex-girlfriend.






Zen-aku said:


> she says the power overwhelmed her, that's loosing control



We're back to where we started where I say "that happens to superpowered people all the time, its not a sign of Phoenix corruption and she never showed any trouble controlling it after that until she got more Phoenix power".


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Banging Pestilence to ensure he has a powerful heir is coldly logical, not insane.


There comes  a line where the cold logic crosses back over into pure crazy




> Even if he was just banging Pestilence for the hell of it while seducing Psylocke he'd be no more crazy than Logan who proclaims his love for Jean/Melita yet has no problem fucking his Japanese ex-girlfriend.


get your facts straight he didn't cheat on Melita He was raped.







> We're back to where we started where I say "that happens to superpowered people all the time, its not a sign of Phoenix corruption and she never showed any trouble controlling it after that until she got more Phoenix power"


she didn't fight, She lost control but tried to keep it  under wraps and it got harder, it doesn't change the fact she clearly lost control when there was still 5 of them


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> There comes  a line where the cold logic crosses back over into pure crazy



No it doesn't, that makes absolutely no sense. Insanity isn't the least bit logical. You obviously don't know what "crazy" is and you're grasping at straws, just admit Archangel isn't suffering from a mental condition. 



Zen-aku said:


> get your facts straight he didn't cheat on Melita He was raped.



Mystique shapeshifted into his ex and approached him for sex. Wolverine fucked her. Thats rape? 

Unless I'm remembering things horribly wrong in which case I want some panels of what actually happened. 






Zen-aku said:


> she didn't fight, She lost control but tried to keep it  under wraps and it got harder, it doesn't change the fact she clearly lost control when there was still 5 of them



What do you mean "she didn't fight"? She lost control during a fight for fucks sake. And she didn't try to keep it under wraps she told Scott and everyone else that she got mad and accidentally fried Hawkeye.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> No it doesn't, that makes absolutely no sense. Insanity isn't the least bit logical. You obviously don't know what "crazy" is and you're grasping at straws, just admit Archangel isn't suffering from a mental condition.


 being infected with the essence of death is a mental condition, plenty of crazies  have spent years obsseesing over  numbers  and "logic". its the halmark of a mad scintest





> Mystique shapeshifted into his ex and approached him for sex. Wolverine fucked her. Thats rape?
> 
> Unless I'm remembering things horribly wrong in which case I want some panels of what actually happened.


Logan had just come out of a beserker rage, and was still heavily drugged, Mystique, shift shaped in a person he trusts and forced her self on him he was raped, Even if he was in his right mind, he would  of rejected mystique.

 if he was a woman every feminist on the internet would of had a fit.







> What do you mean "she didn't fight"? She lost control during a fight for fucks sake. And she didn't try to keep it under wraps she told Scott and everyone else that she got mad and accidentally fried Hawkeye.


after words


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> being infected with the essence of death is a mental condition, plenty of crazies  have spent years obsseesing over  numbers  and "logic". its the halmark of a mad scintest



a) The Death Seed isn't "the essence of death" nor does it magically cause mental conditions. Its purposes are to imbue power to its wielder and include its wielder in the ascension protocols for the selection of a new Celestial Steward after the current one dies.

b) The craziness you're ascribing to the Death Seed is the result of mental conditioning Apocalypse puts all of his Horsemen through (including War, Famine and Pestilence who do not have Death Seeds) so that they'll serve him unquestionably. Warren broke that conditioning ages ago and it occasionally manifested itself in a split personality (Archangel). When he ascended Archangel became the sole personality and is no longer effected by the conditioning (notice how he's no longer hyper-violent).

c) Just because mad scientists obsess over logic doesn't mean logic = crazy. Otherwise Reed Richards needs to be shipped off to the nuthouse.

d) Archangel doesn't "obsess" over logic. I'm going to explain it for you in the simplest way possible. Archangel sees two options. One easy and secure, the other difficult and improbable to succeed. He obviously goes for the easy one. Archangel has no mercy, no remorse, no pity. He does not give a shit that the easy way is to obliterate all life on Earth and start from scratch. This doesn't make him crazy or deranged because he's not human, he can't be measured by human notions of sanity. He's doing his job which is to ensure life on Earth takes a good course. He's doing this calmly and rationally because from his perspective its the right thing to do. From the perspective of everyone else on Earth, its evil and monstrous. Not crazy.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> a) The Death Seed isn't "the essence of death" nor does it magically cause mental conditions. Its purposes are to imbue power to its wielder and include its wielder in the ascension protocols for the selection of a new Celestial Steward after the current one dies.
> 
> b) The craziness you're ascribing to the Death Seed is the result of mental conditioning Apocalypse puts all of his Horsemen through (including War, Famine and Pestilence who do not have Death Seeds) so that they'll serve him unquestionably. Warren broke that conditioning ages ago and it occasionally manifested itself in a split personality (Archangel). When he ascended Archangel became the sole personality and is no longer effected by the conditioning (notice how he's no longer hyper-violent).


 so split personalities, and hyper violence [which he still had] isn't crazy?



> c) Just because mad scientists obsess over logic doesn't mean logic = crazy. Otherwise Reed Richards needs to be shipped off to the nuthouse.


 you act as if people haven't said Reed is crazy befor



> d) Archangel doesn't "obsess" over logic. I'm going to explain it for you in the simplest way possible. Archangel sees two options. One easy and secure, the other difficult and improbable to succeed. He obviously goes for the easy one. *Archangel has no mercy, no remorse, no pity. *


and that  shows, he is not mentally healthy.



> He's doing this calmly and rationally because from his perspective its the right thing to do. From the perspective of everyone else on Earth, its evil and monstrous. Not crazy.


 but he wasn't calm!


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> so split personalities, and hyper violence [which he still had] isn't crazy?



He only had the split personalities as Warren Worthington. And he definitely did not have hyper violence as Ascended Archangel. Notice how pre-Dark Angel saga, Archangel was constantly thirsting for blood and telling Warren to kill everything that moved. Ascended Archangel was shaking hands with children and tried to offer X-Force a place in his new world, tried to avoid fighting them, was continually disappointed in them when they attacked him.



Zen-aku said:


> you act as if people haven't said Reed is crazy befor



They were wrong, he's odd and morally questionable but he's never shown any mental instability.



Zen-aku said:


> and that  shows, he is not mentally healthy.



For a human no. Too bad he's not the least bit human. There's nothing about the way he conducts his business that would suggest he's unhinged or mentally unstable, just that he's completely and utterly inhuman (no, not those inhumans) and has no concept of morality. 



Zen-aku said:


> but he wasn't calm!



Yes he was. Show a panel where he's flying into rages and smashing things. The only time he even raises his voice is when he gets sick of Fantomex and Psylocke and tells them "you want me angry? I'll act angry". And his idea of acting angry is calmly beating the shit out of everyone.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> He only had the split personalities as Warren Worthington. And he definitely did not have hyper violence as Ascended Archangel. Notice how pre-Dark Angel saga, Archangel was constantly thirsting for blood and telling Warren to kill everything that moved. Ascended Archangel was shaking hands with children and tried to offer X-Force a place in his new world, tried to avoid fighting them, was continually disappointed in them when they attacked him.


 his split personality took on a mind of its own is in of itself crazy





> They were wrong, he's odd and morally questionable but he's never shown any mental instability.


 i can't agree with that





> For a human no. Too bad he's not the least bit human. There's nothing about the way he conducts his business that would suggest he's unhinged or mentally unstable, just that he's completely and utterly inhuman (no, not those inhumans) and has no concept of morality.


 were moving i circles but again the fact he is so "inhuman" seems to indicate that not all synapses in his brain are working





> Yes he was. Show a panel where he's flying into rages and smashing things. The only time he even raises his voice is when he gets sick of Fantomex and Psylocke and tells them "you want me angry? I'll act angry". And his idea of acting angry is calmly beating the shit out of everyone.


 didn't he snap when the AoA X-men showed up?


----------



## Kanali (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> his split personality took on a mind of its own is in of itself crazy



Sure thats pretty crazy. I'm not arguing that Warren Worthington doesn't have mental issues. I''m arguing that Ascended Archangel isn't capable of mental issues. At least not in the way that humans define them.





Zen-aku said:


> i can't agree with that



Show some evidence to the contrary. 





Zen-aku said:


> were moving i circles but again the fact he is so "inhuman" seems to indicate that not all synapses in his brain are working



If just means that he's different. More evolved maybe. Does he even have synapses? He's beyond mutant and human in terms of power and what he is. The Apocalypse Force and his ascension is the cause of that. He's insane by human standards but he shouldn't be judged by human standards because he's not human. Thats like calling a lion immoral because it engages in fights to the death with other lions or because it slaughters its prey in an inhumane way. 





Zen-aku said:


> didn't he snap when the AoA X-men showed up?



Nope. He didn't even snap when Kid Apocalypse showed up. He never snapped.


----------



## creative (Oct 4, 2012)

*READ ME YOU STUPID WHORE!!!!!*

Minimum carnage came out. this just in. minimum carnage alpha does not, I repeat, does not suck. that is all.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Sure thats pretty crazy. I'm not arguing that Warren Worthington doesn't have mental issues. I''m arguing that Ascended Archangel isn't capable of mental issues. At least not in the way that humans define them.
> 
> 
> If just means that he's different. More evolved maybe. Does he even have synapses? He's beyond mutant and human in terms of power and what he is. The Apocalypse Force and his ascension is the cause of that. He's insane by human standards but he shouldn't be judged by human standards because he's not human. Thats like calling a lion immoral because it engages in fights to the death with other lions or because it slaughters its prey in an inhumane way.


Ehhhh. i guess


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

a creative color said:


> *READ ME YOU STUPID WHORE!!!!!*
> 
> Minimum carnage came out. this just in. minimum carnage alpha does not, I repeat, does not suck. that is all.



that's good non of the carnage minis have sucked to my knowoldge


----------



## creative (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> that's good non of the carnage minis have sucked to my knowoldge



the first one from 09 was pretty shitty. if it makes you feel better I can personally guarantee you that carnage USA was awesome.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 4, 2012)

a creative color said:


> *READ ME YOU STUPID WHORE!!!!!*
> 
> Minimum carnage came out. this just in. minimum carnage alpha does not, I repeat, does not suck. that is all.



I second this. Minimum Carnage is going to be fun little crossover...I just wish Bunn wasn't writing Venom for this


----------



## creative (Oct 4, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> I second this. Minimum Carnage is going to be fun little crossover...I just wish Bunn wasn't writing Venom for this



Bunn is an asswipe for holding back is talent for his creator owned stuff but he also did great in the Venom: circle of four arc. I would imagine he will play nice this time around.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 4, 2012)

I fail to see exactly how Celestial universal Space Gods who jumpstarted the neanderthal-human evolution step the same way they planted the potential for the x-gene do not count as "natural" or how that point even aproaches the axis of "non-retardation"


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 4, 2012)

Or at least, any less natural than the creationist myhtos of the other fifty skyfather figures that are alive and present in the marvel universe


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

a creative color said:


> Bunn is an asswipe for holding back is talent for his creator owned stuff but he also did great in the Venom: circle of four arc. I would imagine he will play nice this time around.



see now i heard people say that was shit.


----------



## creative (Oct 4, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> see now i heard people say that was shit.



Circle of four? Bad? Who are these people so I can lecture them on their shit taste.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 4, 2012)

a creative color said:


> Circle of four? Bad? Who are these people so I can lecture them on their shit taste.



lol tell me why it was good then


----------



## creative (Oct 4, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



venom, red hulk, lady ghost rider and x-23 meet up in hell to fight black heart for their own reasons. the team dies painfully and regroup again thanks to a deal with mephesto, upon resurrection the group gains actual bromance and synergy amongst one another, particularly the the relationship between red hulk and venom. although the story is also written by jeff parker and cullen bunn, rick remender takes charge of most of the event.




you're welcome bro.

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## shit (Oct 4, 2012)

it was a lull in remender's venom tho, to go from his awesome cast of villains to some thrown together shit with demons outta nowhere

but there were a few bright spots, and I enjoyed most of the writers for it, remender getting two issues helped


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

that dose sound pretty kickass


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 5, 2012)




----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

Awesome the Sham wedding is truly over


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 5, 2012)

I remember Captain America also blaming Scott Summers for the Wakandan Royal divorce

Not that it's a bad thing, but lol


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 5, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> well tony didn't instruct them to be the idiots they went on to be


Stop. The Phoenix Force was corrupting them. Furthermore, they didn't start doing anything stupid until after the Avengers antagonized them for no reason.





> and the P5 was an unexpected side effect to a desperate solution to a very dire problem, the "I can't control it" one hope was having with the phoenix


It really takes a lot of reaching to try and exonerate the Avengers of any blame. It was because of them that the war started, and the P5 were created out of their poor idea.





> he was walking on a fine thread before, the event of magneto not a hero specifically, and the reason why they let magneto walk out like he did was because steve promesing "he was a boyscout" now, I imagine if magneto was to go out of hiding it would be most likely the avengers would stand up for him, although I don't think is gonna happen because of that "Wanted" teaser marvel released.


Theorizing that they might stand up for him is irrelevant until it happens. As of now, he has been driven into hiding and placed on wanted posters, all after helping save the world. What a show of loyalty. 

If we get a story where they do defend him, then I can let this one go. But they're still responsible for much of this event.


----------



## Kanali (Oct 5, 2012)

Minimum Carnage was okay. I'm not a fan of Flash Venom but I like Caine and I love Carnage so I'll keep tabs on this mini series.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 5, 2012)

"Scott Summers..."

Wasn't there a scene in AvX where Scott showed up and actually said something along the lines of "Not cool Namor, no phoenix for you." ?


----------



## creative (Oct 5, 2012)

I don't always summarize a poster's entire debate into a shitty MSpaint, but when I do I usually think of banhammer.


not mine's, enjoy.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 5, 2012)




----------



## Taleran (Oct 5, 2012)

link

Goddamn Dean White coloring JRJR is fucking pretty.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 5, 2012)

it's official, Dean White is the Hakeem Olajuwon of comics, he'll carry a mediocre team to the promised land


----------



## Kanali (Oct 5, 2012)

Link removed

Now we know where Namor ends up. I'm disappointed he's not in an X-Book but I think Hickman can do him justice. 

Its funny that moral whore Hank McCoy is on a secret team deciding the fate of the world. But X-Force was unacceptable?


----------



## Parallax (Oct 5, 2012)

2.99?!?  Looks like I'm picking that up


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 5, 2012)

he is a damn good colorist

looks like slott is staying on spider-man :/


----------



## Taleran (Oct 5, 2012)

So it is Illuminati the book?


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 5, 2012)




----------



## Petes12 (Oct 5, 2012)

looks like. 

i just noticed gillen is doing a book with kid loki and other young heroes. bet that will make some people happy.


----------



## creative (Oct 5, 2012)

Oh shit. T'challa is leading the new avengers? fuck yes, sign me up on that shit. day one download.


----------



## creative (Oct 5, 2012)

> Brevoort: It would be a very boring story, and nobody would be happy. If we did a bunch of fights that were just, "Cyclops and Captain America fight for 12 issues and are evenly matched, and then they shake hands and go, 'You're great!' 'No, you're great!'" everyone would have gone, "What a cop out." You clearly needed to have a definitive winner here.



no. no you giantic mean old man. I would totally be okay with an ending in which both flyclops and captain asshole got their shit together and save the day together. 

what the hell comic books?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 5, 2012)

tbh I think that'd be pretty boring too.


----------



## shit (Oct 5, 2012)

> I don't think we really could be much happier, realistically, short of gold falling from the skies into our pockets


wow, way to make me feel like a sucker, tom


----------



## Taleran (Oct 5, 2012)

Cyclops did win.


----------



## shit (Oct 5, 2012)

cap took several steps backwards as a character
cyclops took several steps forward

this was an x-event
the avengers were just side characters


----------



## Es (Oct 5, 2012)

Bendis always wrote Steve like an asshole anyways. Sadly we are now stuck with this depiction


----------



## Kanali (Oct 5, 2012)

a creative color said:


> Oh shit. T'challa is leading the new avengers? fuck yes, sign me up on that shit. day one download.



According to Hickman they're all under the impression that they're the leader.



shit said:


> cap took several steps backwards as a character
> cyclops took several steps forward
> 
> this was an x-event
> the avengers were just side characters



Pretty much. The Avengers were just shoehorned in to promote them, this was the final part of the HoM/Decimation/Messiah Complex/Messiah War/Second Coming X-Stories.



Es said:


> Bendis always wrote Steve like an asshole anyways. Sadly we are now stuck with this depiction



Unless Hickman/Remender make him less of a complete asshole.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

I just wanna know where cage & fist are gonna be...


----------



## Kanali (Oct 5, 2012)

I hope they make Cage's retirement stick. Not because I don't like the character but because it makes no sense for him to put his infant daughter at risk by being head of the Thunderbolts/Avengers only to have a realisation that his family needs him and then have a hux flux change of heart and go back to heroics.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

Kanali said:


> I hope they make Cage's retirement stick. Not because I don't like the character but because it makes no sense for him to put his infant daughter at risk by being head of the Thunderbolts/Avengers only to have a realisation that his family needs him and then have a hux flux change of heart and go back to heroics.



Sit your right...Now is a good time for cage to retire..but hes like the only good black superhero left in marvel TT_TT

Bishop is dead, storm is usless, BP sucks as always


whose left? Blue marvel?


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 5, 2012)

Hahaha this is NUTS.

Wolverine is blaming Scott for Wakanda while Namor is going to be an AVENGER.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Hahaha this is NUTS.
> 
> Wolverine is blaming Scott for Wakanda while Namor is going to be an AVENGER.


 more like the Illuminati are gonna deal with namor, i don't think he'll be an actual avenger


----------



## creative (Oct 5, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Sit your right...Now is a good time for cage to retire..but hes like the only good black superhero left in marvel TT_TT
> 
> Bishop is dead, storm is usless, BP sucks as always
> 
> ...



Bishop will be coming back to more or less stop cable and his version of the x-force from fucking shit up. he's written as an atoner but as far as the hopeless interview shows but in a story with cable, everyone is bound to suck.

storm is on uncanny x-force but that shit doesn't matter at all.

if brubaker didn't leave black panther would actually be solid. waid could write BP, but it's unlikely since waid is making the hulk relevant in indestructible.


----------



## Kanali (Oct 5, 2012)

Bishop is on Uncanny X-Force though not Cable's. Hopeless said there would probably be a crossover eventually but Bishop won't be a Cable and X-Force villain, at least not for a while.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

a creative color said:


> Bishop will be coming back to more or less stop cable and his version of the x-force from fucking shit up. he's written as an atoner but as far as the hopeless interview shows but in a story with cable, everyone is bound to suck.
> 
> storm is on uncanny x-force but that shit doesn't matter at all.
> 
> if brubaker didn't leave black panther would actually be solid. waid could write BP, but it's unlikely since waid is making the hulk relevant in indestructible.



Its a sad day when DC is doing better for black characters then Marvel 


Edit: bishop is on X-force?, i thought it was storm, Psylocke, and spiral


----------



## Kanali (Oct 5, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Edit: bishop is on X-force?, i thought it was storm, Psylocke, and spiral



Bishop is the main villain of Uncanny X-Force which stars Psylocke, Storm, Spiral and Puck.


----------



## shit (Oct 5, 2012)

hahaha, bishop is now more villain than hero

weird


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

Kanali said:


> Bishop is the main villain of Uncanny X-Force which stars Psylocke, Storm, Spiral and Puck.



....Isn't Puck in hell?

fuck it Pass.

God how i wish AVX hade nded with hope going Crazy and Bishop coming out of a Time portal blowing her head off  and then saying "i told you so" to every one,


----------



## Es (Oct 5, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> ....Isn't Puck in hell?
> 
> fuck it Pass.



He got out read Alpha Flight you plebeian


Also Dale Keown + Loeb = Blasphemy


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

Es said:


> He got out* read Alpha Flight* you plebeian





> *Read Alpha Flight*





> *Alpha Flight*



 Dose not compute....


----------



## Es (Oct 5, 2012)

Zen Aku confirmed for having irredeemably bad taste


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Oct 5, 2012)

Saw this on Grantland and it's a pretty good read.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

Es said:


> Zen Aku confirmed for having irredeemably bad taste



I Love Greg pak but i'm not gonna read  Canadian Avengers

just like i'm not reading his Not-Exiles book


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 5, 2012)




----------



## shit (Oct 5, 2012)

ew, a forum without rep

do not want


----------



## Es (Oct 5, 2012)

> "Cap didn't throw the first punch." True, but the original conflict ended in avx 5. There was no war in avx 6. The Xmen were busy fixing the world. Then Cap stormed Utopia to kidnap Hope (while Thor punched a kid). Wouldn't that count as starting the war?





> Again, though, an action sanctioned by the President and the government. At that point, it's not kidnapping, it's arrest (or, really, bringing somebody in for questioning.)



Marvel editorial everyone


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

Es said:


> Marvel editorial everyone



he's not wrong.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 5, 2012)

Apparently, the public blamed mutants for promising them unlimited energy and food and taking it away.


----------



## Es (Oct 5, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Apparently, the public blamed mutants for promising them unlimited energy and food and taking it away.



Shouldn't they blame the Avengers!?


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Apparently, the public blamed mutants for promising them unlimited energy and food and taking it away.



you sure there not pissed about the forced disarmorment of there governments and Ecological damage?


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 5, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> you sure there not pissed about the forced disarmorment of there governments and Ecological damage?



Nope.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

ooh one news report [just from the way its written iam betting it was bill o'riley] lawdy lawd.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 5, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> ooh one news report [just from the way its written iam betting it was bill o'riley] lawdy lawd.



Mutants are taking the blame for the Avengers here, right?


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Mutants ar taking the blame fr the Avengers here, right?



i See allot more "why  arent the avengers saying any thing" reports

your blowing a question way out of porportion


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 5, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> i See allot more "why  arent the avengers saying any thing" reports
> 
> your blowing a question way out of porportion



The public blamed mutants for promising them unlimited energy and food and taking it away.

Did the Avenges stop the mutants from doing that?


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> The public blamed mutants for promising them unlimited energy and food and taking it away.
> 
> Did the Avenges stop the mutants from doing that?



one person so fare has blamed them.

if you see a mob doing it then well talk


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 5, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> one person so fare has blamed them.
> 
> if you see a mob doing it then well talk



You didn't answer the question.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> You didn't answer the question.



that's because its a loaded question that fails to account for the full situation.

Its like saying the avengers defeating the skulls was because of religious intolerance. you would be right in a technical sense but, facts would be skewed


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 5, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> that's because its a loaded question that fails to account for the full situation.
> 
> Its like saying the avengers defeating the skulls was because of religious intolerance. you would be right in a technical sense but, facts would be skewed



Cop out? K thanks.

Comic Book Resources reports


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah is bullshit wolverine can't do it.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 6, 2012)

> From: sun_man
> just like they tried Bin Laden or Hitler? Oh wait?
> 
> This isn't a regular crime or prisoner here. This is literally someone who tried to destroy the world. And is responsible for thousands of deaths and devastation.
> ...



That Makes Me Feel Angry


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Oct 6, 2012)

What a saint.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 6, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> That Makes Me Feel Angry



while cyclops dose belong in jail for a bit, i do agree that comparing him to Hitler in a serious context is bs.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 6, 2012)

It's a pretty reasonable answer. Wolverine can't do it because he's a traitor war criminal involving a devastating attack on a friendly nation


----------



## Michael Lucky (Oct 6, 2012)

saw this on 4chan


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 6, 2012)

Scott was ultimately right about a giant plethora of issues bigger than whether or not the Phoenix Gamble was a reasonable one.

Just everything, from kicking Xavier from the X-Men for what he did to Danger and Vulcan, raising his own island-nation after Proposition X, teaching a generation of surviving X-Men, or even forming the Extinction team and refusing to submit the jackboot of captain america.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 6, 2012)

gonna stay away from this thread for awhile too much cyclops wank...


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 6, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> gonna stay away from this thread for awhile too much cyclops wank...


----------



## Totitos (Oct 6, 2012)




----------



## Michael Lucky (Oct 6, 2012)

​


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 6, 2012)

lol


----------



## Es (Oct 6, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> lol


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## Narutossss (Oct 6, 2012)

I do, don't I??


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## Banhammer (Oct 6, 2012)

Delicious tears


Finally unlocked Magik on the facebook game and her standard costume is her phoenix five mode.
Awesome
also, her passive skill is ruler of limbo which lets her randomly summon little bat demons to beat my enemies
Similar to Jonny Storm's FF's costume, that enables him to randomly summon little Annihilation Wave insects


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## shit (Oct 6, 2012)

Lee-Sensei said:


> That Makes Me Feel Angry



haha wuht

bin ladin and hitler weren't able to be captured, that's the only reason they didn't get a trial

this guy


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## Banhammer (Oct 6, 2012)

God damn it Shit got a new Mituna set


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## shit (Oct 6, 2012)




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## creative (Oct 6, 2012)

I feel bad for cyclops. I would lose my shit to and nearly threaten to destroy the planet myself if everyone is as stupid as captain asswipe, as written by bendis. 

that's another thing, I can' take captain america seriously in AVX, like, at all. I spent to many years reading Brubakers to accept this crummy boot-legged version of 1610 cap or as I like to call him as of now, PRESIDENT-america.

cyckwasrightavengersareassesfuckthepolicekillbabiesfuckingmutiescumfuckingmetahumansfuckinginhumansfuckingmarveleditorialdepartmentisfullofautist.[/rant]


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## Banhammer (Oct 6, 2012)




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## Petes12 (Oct 6, 2012)

god, that nice new avengers cover had me excited for hickman's run, until I saw he was working with Epting. I mean, I'm still interested. But can we get that cover artist instead?


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## Es (Oct 6, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> god, that nice new avengers cover had me excited for hickman's run, until I saw he was working with Epting. I mean, I'm still interested. But can we get that cover artist instead?



^ (use bro) you don't like Epting?


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## Stan Lee (Oct 7, 2012)

Lol Scarlet Witch "redeemed". She ruined Hope's life and many other's. The only way that can be done is if Hope loses control of her powers and is about to kill millions (Bishop's future) and Wanda sacrifices her life herself to stop/save her. That is the only she can be redeemed in my eyes.


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## shit (Oct 7, 2012)

didn't dr. doom cause everything that went bad with scarlet witch?


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## Kanali (Oct 7, 2012)

shit said:


> didn't dr. doom cause everything that went bad with scarlet witch?



Even if we accept that Wanda still sought him out for the power. Good idea to ask the guy that's tried to kill you and your friends countless times for extra juice.


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## shit (Oct 7, 2012)

she asked for it?

what for? was some specific threat looming or something?


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## Banhammer (Oct 7, 2012)

It excuses Wanda about as much as Unit and Sinister excuse the Avengers


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## shit (Oct 7, 2012)

vague as fuck


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## Banhammer (Oct 7, 2012)

Essentially Children's  Crusade, whom no one in particular gives a fuck about save for the part where they kill Cassie Lang, has doom taking credit for House of M.

Even though Pietro already did that

And so did Mephisto

And so did the Skrulls.

Vague as fuck? Yes, so was doom
Some people say Wanda went to Doom to ressurect her kids, but who the fuck knows.


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## shit (Oct 7, 2012)

oh ok

well anyway, you can't disregard canon, no matter how transparently apologist it is

I don't blame wanda too much

who's to say turning mutants normal is any worse than recently turning normals into mutants?

both actions could be justifiably lauded just as easily as they could be condemned


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## Banhammer (Oct 7, 2012)




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## Banhammer (Oct 7, 2012)




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## shit (Oct 7, 2012)

you can't make me pity the blob, he was a villain, that's pretty just desserts probably

I don't recognize the context of the 2nd pic


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## Banhammer (Oct 7, 2012)




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## Banhammer (Oct 7, 2012)

shit said:


> you can't make me pity the blob, he was a villain, that's pretty just desserts probably



Blob is one of thousands





> I don't recognize the context of the 2nd pic


The School Bus attack
A bus full of mutants who left the school after they got de-powered against their will, whom the m-day emboldened purifiers saw fit to dump a fist full of rockets in front of all their friends and let them die on a fiery inferno


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## shit (Oct 7, 2012)

that third one is because they used terrigan crystals  what are you trying to imply?


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## shit (Oct 7, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Blob is one of thousands


out of millions that were depowered, a lot of them must have turned out alright, like that chicken guy from new x-men


> A bus full of mutants who left the school after they got de-powered against their will, whom the m-day emboldened purifiers saw fit to dump a fist full of rockets in front of all their friends and let them die on a fiery inferno



purifiers gonna purify lol


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## shit (Oct 7, 2012)

honestly there's going to be terrible shit that happens no matter what happens in marvel

if you think there won't be a hundred sob stories that comes outta this empowering or outta scott's making every volcano explode in the last avx, you're in for a rude awakening


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## Banhammer (Oct 7, 2012)

Except I never pretended Scott going Dark Phoenix was as laudable as it was reprehensible.
It was bad, it was however not his fault.
It was the pushback from Wanda's decision, whose state of mind is far more debatable, but hey, only one of them is being arrested for crimes against humanity

Wanda's decision on the other hand, is reprehensible, regardless of whether or not it was necessary from a story teller's point of view, which I personally think it was.


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## Banhammer (Oct 7, 2012)

shit said:


> that third one is because they used terrigan crystals  what are you trying to imply?



That whomever didn't die instantly because their x-gene was keeping them alive, like fliers, chamber, people with huge limbs or metallic skin, or no longer being fire proof, often got killed off, got into a depression and killed themselves with Terrigen or MGH overdose, and wiped out their statistical presence so thoroughly that it led to unstoppable onslaught of exterminatus fanatics on the surviving population that Scott Summer has been just barely able to stave off through sheer leadership.

Lest we forget Proposition X, a sanctioned legislative procedure that upon it's passing would lead a sterilization initiative on every mutant left.

(People like to forget the reason why mutants left San Francisco for Utopia in the first place.)


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## Kanali (Oct 7, 2012)

shit said:


> she asked for it?
> 
> what for? was some specific threat looming or something?



Nope, she wanted her imaginary kids back.



shit said:


> oh ok
> 
> well anyway, you can't disregard canon, no matter how transparently apologist it is
> 
> ...



Breaking the multi-verse by placing a curse on the fabric of reality and depowering millions of people because you think your daddy didn't love you is unjustifiable. It lead to suffering for millions of former mutants, some of whom died in the process of losing their powers, other who were permanently deformed, others who were killed because they could no longer defend themselves etc. It also caused the coming of the Phoenix, facilitated the Skrull invasion which in turn drove Stark out of office and lead to Osborn being made top cop and leader of the Avengers and nearly drove mutantkind extinct and forced them to segregate themselves on an island. I can guarantee that the Celestials wouldn't be very pleased with how things turned out. Considering they were considering wiping out AoA Earth despite having a healthy mutant population, its not a stretch to assume that they'd declare a world where human evolution is halted a failure and wipe it out. The fact that the Celestial Steward (Archangel) was willing to erase all life on Earth and start from scratch to have something that would please the Celestials is evident of how serious the situation was.

Re-powering mutants and re-starting the natural course of mutation is a-okay. Some people will probably get the short end of the mutation stick but its a cheap price to pay for the survival of Earth and the balance of the universe.


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## shit (Oct 7, 2012)

lol kanali

feel free to continue with block text rants, I won't be reading them tho





Banhammer said:


> That whomever didn't die instantly because their x-gene was keeping them alive, like fliers, chamber, people with huge limbs or metallic skin, or no longer being fire proof, often got killed off, got into a depression and killed themselves with Terrigen or MGH overdose, and wiped out their statistical presence so thoroughly that it led to unstoppable onslaught of exterminatus fanatics on the surviving population that Scott Summer has been just barely able to stave off through sheer leadership.
> 
> Lest we forget Proposition X, a sanctioned legislative procedure that upon it's passing would lead a sterilization initiative on every mutant left.
> 
> (People like to forget the reason why mutants left San Francisco for Utopia in the first place.)



>chamber's still alive as a new warrior

just because one mini focused on the absolute worst of m-day doesn't mean you can paint with such a broad brush

you forget that nearly all the moloids were able to ditch the sewers, except for a few that got caught mid-transformation


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## shit (Oct 7, 2012)

also, new thread incoming

name it "General Marvel Comics Discussion III: Marvel Comics General"


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## Kanali (Oct 7, 2012)

shit said:


> lol kanali
> 
> feel free to continue with block text rants, I won't be reading them tho/QUOTE]
> 
> Don't ask questions if you don't want any answers


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## Tazmo (Oct 7, 2012)

This thread is now closed it has a continuation thread *Here*


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