# BSM Hashirama Vs Juubito



## Axiom (Sep 6, 2013)

Conditions:  Hashirama has Naruto's half of the Kyuubi and Naruto's 8 minute Bijuu mode, as well as all powers Naruto got as a result of attaining BM.  He can use BM and SM in conjunction with one another.  He can also use KCM in conjunction with SM if such happens to be his desire.

Knowledge:  Full
Location:  Current Manga Fight
Distance:  100 Meters
Mindset:  IC

Can super Hashirama solo the closest thing we've seen to RS


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## Shinobi no Kami (Sep 6, 2013)

hashirama would effortlessly annihilate juubito with the powers you mentioned. the added powers arent really necessary.


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## Trojan (Sep 6, 2013)

Obito stomps.

he can use the barrier and then his TBBs, there is nothing that Hashi can do about it.


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## Rocky (Sep 6, 2013)

He can put Hashirama in that barrier, and suicide bomb. Only Obito will come out unscathed, protected by that black matter. Hashirama with half of the Kyuubi isn't even beating the Ten-Tails, which is a weaker entity than Obito.


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## Lurko (Sep 6, 2013)

Jubbito still wins.


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## Darkmaiar (Sep 6, 2013)

Hashirama without Kyuubi powers is still one of the top 5 strongest characters. Adding all the Kyuubi powers in conjunction with Sage Mode is nearly overkill. Juubito has extreme defense, but Sage Mode can bypass it and combine that with Hashi + Kyuubi chakra/power might give him a win. 

Hashirama can use both Bijuudama and Senpu: Mokuton: Shinsuusenju, both being at least Island Level+. Bijuu Mode Naruto can also create Small Country Level Bijuudamas and it increased his FRS's power exponentially, giving Hashirama very high level attacks along with upgrades to his regular techniques. Combining that with Sage Modes advantage against Juubito, which would allow a lot of his attacks to actually hit, might give him a win.

Juubito's shields can defend against AT LEAST four Juubi Bijuudamas, but Hashirama with terrain altering Mokuton, Sage Mode advantage, and extreme Kyuubi stat-plus makes me give it to him 5/10. All the advantages are enough to give Hashirama a win, but we don't know the limit of Juubito's shield or what kind of advantage Hashirama's techniques would get from Sage Mode. Thus it could go either way.


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## Lurko (Sep 6, 2013)

Go check some obd calcs bro, one jubbi bomb>>>>> bm naruto's bomb sorry.


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## Axiom (Sep 6, 2013)

BM Naruto's Bomb didn't have Sage Chakra mixed in, though.  And Hashi seems to have really potent chakra.  BSM Hashirama could put out some really ridiculous stuff on a strength scale

Not that I'm endorsing Hashi winning or anything.  Certainly we've not seen anything to match the Juubi yet, but I figured if anybody would have a chance, BSM Hashirama would be the guy.


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## Darkmaiar (Sep 6, 2013)

^Exactly. Hashirama has both more chakra and more potent chakra. Adding Kyuubi and Sage Mode would put his Bijuudama >>>>>>>>> Naruto Bijuudama. How close it is to Juubi Bijuudama? I don't know, it is only speculation. But he has a lot more power than Naruto and with Kyuubi he could be a lot more powerful. 

BM Naruto made a Bijuudama that countered five regular Bijuudamas. This is only because of Kurama. Hashirama alone is capable of stopping those Bijuudamas. Add Kyuubi and Sage Mode it's not a far stretch to say it is MUCH more powerful. It probably wouldn't be a stretch to say it is Juubi Level. But if you account multiple Bijuudama capacity, already powerful Mokuton, AND Sage Mode - Juubito's clear weakness - I think Hashirama would win. The only problem is Juubito's full capacity of defense against Hashirama's Sage Mode. I don't know it, so 50/50.


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## Lurko (Sep 6, 2013)

Dude check obd calcs in fluttershy's blog.


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## Axiom (Sep 6, 2013)

The same OBD calcs that place Hashi's speed at like, Mach 130 something?  Please >.>


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## Lurko (Sep 6, 2013)

Obd>>> you bro.


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## Darkmaiar (Sep 6, 2013)

Naruto + Kurama = Five Bijuu / Hashirama = Five Bijuu at least. 

Naruto plus Kurama was enough to match Five Bijuu. Bijuu Mode Naruto is slightly above EMS Madara. Hashirama is stronger than both. 

So Naruto + Kurama = Hashirama. Hashirama >>>>>>>>>>> Naruto (More chakra than Naruto and 1/2 Kurama, more potent chakra, Bijuu suppressing Mokuton.) Hashirama w/out Kurama is equal to Naruto + Kurama. Nearly all of Naruto's power in Bijuu Mode is from Kurama. So Naruto accounts for a tiny fraction of BM power. 

Hashirama + Kurama = Naruto + 100% Kurama, since it would be Hashi+Kurama = Naruto+Kurama+Kurama ( the second Kurama would be the half added to Hashirama ). Naruto + SM = (Naruto >= Kakashi to Naruto =< Pain.) A massive difference in power. Hashirama > EMS Madara. Hashirama + SM >= EMS Madara + 100% Kurama.  Another massive difference in power.

Hashirama + Kurama = Naruto + 100% Kurama / Hashirama + SM >= EMS Madara + 100% Kurama. Any upgrade to Hashirama puts him above 100% Kurama + second person. If BM Naruto >= EMS Madara + 100% Kurama, then Naruto + 100% Kurama is >>>>>>>>> EMS Madara + 100% Kurama. Hashirama is stronger than the former with Kurama, adding SM increases his powers by another large margin. 

Conclusion: Hashirama + Kurama + SM > Naruto + 100% Kurama >>>>>>>>>>> Naruto + Kurama >= EMS Madara + 100% Kurama.

If you can understand the above paragraphs, they show how adding either Kurama or SM to Hashirama make him much, much stronger than 100% Kurama + a second person. Putting both Kurama and SM together makes him that much more powerful. This is simply my way of saying if Hashirama had these upgrades, only RS and Juubito would have more raw power. 

For Former OBD Lurker: The key part you are missing is the SM. W/ shields, Juubito tanked four Continent Level+ Bijuudamas. ( I looked at Fluttershy's calc, very impressive. ) Obviously, my previous assumption was wrong. Roughly 7.6 Petatons is higher than what Hashirama could probably make, BUT, Naruto could harm Juubito with a SM Rasengan. It did very little damage, but think about having an attack as strong as a Bijuudama with SM chakra. The amount of damage it could do is enormous. And with the above powerscaling, his Bijuudama would be leagues beyond anything BM Naruto could make anyway. That's my reasoning for Hashirama likely winning.

Axiom: I believe Hashirama's reaction and attack speed are about that. I don't think that is his movement speed.


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## Darkmaiar (Sep 7, 2013)

I probably made that too confusing. Sorry if I did.

My internet's getting spotty, so I'll probably be out for the night. Might be back here in the morning...


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## Lurko (Sep 7, 2013)

Not bad not bad.


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## Joakim3 (Sep 7, 2013)

Juubito still stomps? 

Barrier followed by 4 Juubidama's result in Hashi and whatever he attempted to defend himself with a smoldering pile of ash..


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## Ghost (Sep 7, 2013)

Obito wins.


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## Darkmaiar (Sep 7, 2013)

Hashirama could still potentially one-shot Juubito with an SM Super Bijuudama. Either could one-shot actually. Just depends on who gets their attack off first.

They are IC, so Juubito would likely try to block the attack. Thus, Hashirama would have the advantage. He would take the battle more seriously, and probably get the first hit in. Juubito wouldn't win against that, since he wouldn't use barriers first.


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## Rocky (Sep 7, 2013)

Darkmaiar said:


> They are IC, so Juubito would likely try to block the attack. Thus, Hashirama would have the advantage. He would take the battle more seriously, and probably get the first hit in. Juubito wouldn't win against that, since he wouldn't use barriers first.



Jubito's IC response to a Sage Bijuu Bomb is to start a planetary scaled Genjutsu. We just saw it this chapter.


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## Darkmaiar (Sep 7, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Jubito's IC response to a Sage Bijuu Bomb is to start a planetary scaled Genjutsu. We just saw it this chapter.



Sorry, it's hard for me to keep current. Just read the chapter and you're right. But I don't think he did simply because of the SM Bijuudama. To me, it seemed more like he was getting annoyed with how they kept finding ways to bypass his defense.

But maybe not...

I still maintain, with Mokuton to distract Juubito, he could get off a SM Bijuudama in time to hit him.


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## Darkmaiar (Sep 7, 2013)

So, anyone agree with my 1-shot VS 1-shot?

Or is it still Juubito wins?


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## Fiiction (Jan 5, 2014)

Pointless thread, hashirama  said who was stronger


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## Veracity (Jan 5, 2014)

LOL IC Obito gets his shit tossed. Not even close to a fair battle.

If Obito fought with even a grain of intelligence he would win this.

Lol but BSM Hashirama would be absolutely deadly. We can obviosuly assume he has infinite chakra basically. 3 Bjuii and Sage enchnaced Wood Humans would basically end all. Now imagine a Bjuii enchanced Buddah statue. Just god.

And imagine how fast he would be. He casually reacts to alive Madara who could blitz SM Naruto. BM Hashirama could be deadly.


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## ARGUS (Jan 5, 2014)

Juubito still roflstomps fan fic hashirama 
Juubi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kyuubi & Hashirama 
1 TBB from incomplete juubi was sooo large it made everyone shit their pants 
5 TBB max would destroy SS,,,, and juubito onmyodon, is stilll hax 
Juubito is on a whole other level


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Jan 5, 2014)

Jūbito still wins. There is no other power in the Narutoverse that can compete with the Jūbi. No if's, and's, or but's. Unless Jūbito stands there like he did in the past arc, there really isn't any way he loses.


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## Master Sephiroth (Jan 5, 2014)

Lol Base Hashirama was already fast as shit. BSM Hashirama could potentially be the fastest thing we've seen to date if it scales by the same amount as Naruto. Either way it wouldn't be a blitz on either side. 50% of Kurama's Chakra melded with Naruto's yielded a crazy powerful Flash Bijudama. Melded with Hashirama's Chakra with Sage Mode activated could be on astronomical levels. Then of course we have Shinsuusenju being surrounded by a Kyuubi cloak, which would devastate Juubito's defense.


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## KeyofMiracles (Jan 5, 2014)

Juubito>Juubi>Hashirama with these enhancments. The barrier + BIjuu Dama combo would wipe him off the face of the planet.

-Can't tank 4 Juubidama..hell, he can't even tank 1.

-Can't escape the barrier.

-He could catch the Bijuu Dama that come toward him, but not all of them will do so and he'll just end up blowing himself up as there is no where to toss the dama.


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## Garcher (Jan 5, 2014)

Hashi stomps. 

I mean, Obito got pwnd by Tenten performing Rasengan


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## J★J♥ (Jan 5, 2014)

Excuse me, but what does Hashirama need Bijuu for ? More chakra ? 
Not going to debate who wins just curious.


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## Jagger (Jan 5, 2014)

SaCrEdpOoL said:


> Excuse me, but what does Hashirama need Bijuu for ? More chakra ?
> Not going to debate who wins just curious.


Kurama's chakra makes everything more powerful, that's a fact. 

You've seen the sheer size of Naruto's techniques when he adds the power of the Kyuubi into it? Did you see the size Shinsuusenju without even adding Kurama's chakra into the mix. 

It makes Hashirama faster, stronger physically, more durable, etc.


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## Joakim3 (Jan 5, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Kurama's chakra makes everything more powerful, that's a fact.
> 
> You've seen the sheer size of Naruto's techniques when he adds the power of the Kyuubi into it? Did you see the size Shinsuusenju without even adding Kurama's chakra into the mix.
> 
> It makes Hashirama faster, stronger physically, more durable, etc.



Ugh the affect Kurama would have on Hashirama wouldn't be as profound as it is on Naurto as Hashriama already has Kurama level reserves



Either way Juubito still omni-rapes


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## Jagger (Jan 5, 2014)

I doubt the level of chakra supplies Hashirama has can compare with the Kyuubi. Don't get me wrong, he does have insane levels, but still, a bit too far.


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## DaVizWiz (Jan 6, 2014)

Well we saw what Kurama's chakras did to Minato's movement speed. It looked like he was about equal to BSM Naruto (speed-wise), which makes sense considering SM Naruto would probably be around Minato's base speed, and both BMs are equal. 

If we look at Obito alone, who was inflated with Jubito's chakras (the combination of all the bijuu), he did not even double his speed (Tobirama reacted to his blitz, albeit by sacrificing his body)/(Obito was able to react to KCM Naruto without the Juubi).

Now, Hashirama in base could react to Edo Madara, but Madara wasn't blitzing anyone of note while Edo. When he entered SM he still could not blitz Madara, he needed Mokuton to defeat him. SM didn't seem to increase his speed at all (as far as feats are concerned). 

With that being said, I think it's impossible to suggest the increase in speed that Hashirama could produce when inflated with BM and while in SM. I mean, the guy could be faster in the humanoid form (The version that Naruto blocked bijuudamas in- only with SM added) than the actual avatar form, because the movement in the avatar form is dependent on the chakra constructed legs, which are not Hashirama's, but Kurama's chakra. 

So this debate has become entirely fan/opinion based, with absolutely no basis for fact. There is no way anyone could determine the increase in speed if Hashirama was the Jinchuriki of Yang Kurama, thus they cannot determine whether or not he could blitz Jubito.


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## kaminogan (Jan 6, 2014)

well i think hashi could win this, jikai koton and chakra arms to keep obito on his toes, or maybe distract him,

he has that bijuu restraining property too which should also be enhanced by the kyuubi,

omnyoton is very dangerous but with sage sensing and the aura he should be able to bypass it,

genjutsu also wont work on him do to the partner method, 

obito could still win this with kamui thou or a direct hit bijuudama although i think that will be difficult considering hasis fighting style,


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