# Starwarsverse vs Ben10verse



## Orochibuto (Jul 1, 2010)

Because why not?


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## Shoddragon (Jul 1, 2010)

oh...................... my.............................. god. does ben10verse really deserve this? REALLY? fucking REALLY? multiple people in star wars can mindfuck the whole verse. looks like ben 10 needs some industrial strength lube for this.


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## Orochibuto (Jul 1, 2010)

Shoddragon said:


> oh...................... my.............................. god. does ben10verse really deserve this? REALLY? fucking REALLY? multiple people in star wars can mindfuck the whole verse. looks like ben 10 needs some industrial strength lube for this.



Don't talk to soon Sho. Yes SW will mindfuck 99.99% of Ben10verse, possibly. But I still see them having a hard time facing timeless immortal Prof. Paradox, the Anodites (a race of reality warpers) and the Celestialsapiens (a race of cosmic reality warpers) as well as the uber hax weapons like Omnitrix (destroy the universe) option.


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## Banhammer (Jul 1, 2010)

Thread has been done before.
Star Wars verse spans a galaxy, while Ben 10's relevant canon spans a universe.

Even though any given Star Wars character is able to swat ben's like a fly, they would never get anything done


Finally, there's the omnitrix countdown that can take out two thirds of the universe upon it's explosion. So if anything, there's that.


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## Seyta (Jul 1, 2010)

Worst-Case Scenario is that the Omnitrix makes this a draw.

Otherwise, there are a number of high class entities in Ben10 that can deal with this pretty well


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2010)

There's Gwen's grandma. I forgot what kinda alien she is, but it's all massively magical powered (or Mana powered). Entire race of high-level magical beings. Future Gwen has made portals through time and AF Gwen has made a rift into the Null Void with magic. Also, there's Ben's Cosmic Form, Alien X, which is henceforth unbeatable due to connection with the primal forces of Order and Chaos in the universe, making him an abstract and allowing him to do just about anything.


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## Shoddragon (Jul 1, 2010)

and what exactly makes makes any of those immune to being mindraped and forced to kill each other?

I thought this was the original ben 10: not shitty alien force.


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## Black Sabbath II (Jul 1, 2010)

"And now, young Tennyson... You will die."


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2010)

Says BT-verse, that means everything, AF and UA included. Mana aliens have dimension/reality warping magic. Then there's Dr. Paradox who kills all the Jedi/Sith as babies. Chrono-Anomaly which nothing in SW can stop. Chaos/Order abstracts wipe the SW galaxy because they agreed it was mess up their universe. Seriously these two were still arguing about what to do about the dinosaurs 65mil years ago. Mind fuckery isn't doing jack to a fuckin abstract.


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## Shoddragon (Jul 1, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Says BT-verse, that means everything, AF and UA included. Mana aliens have dimension/reality warping magic. Then there's Dr. Paradox who kills all the Jedi/Sith as babies. Chrono-Anomaly which nothing in SW can stop. Chaos/Order abstracts wipe the SW galaxy because they agreed it was mess up their universe. Seriously these two were still arguing about what to do about the dinosaurs 65mil years ago. Mind fuckery isn't doing jack to a fuckin abstract.



when were they abstract beings? they were stated to be extremely powerful, not abstracts.

when you say BTverse you mean the ben tenverse. Ben 10 Alien force and whatever this new UA is, are different.


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## Fang (Jul 1, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Finally, there's the omnitrix countdown that can take out two thirds of the universe upon it's explosion. So if anything, there's that.



No, it won't. We went over this in the past.

Also anyone by now should know that everything Raigen has said about abstract or cosmic beings in Ben-10 is a joke. He's making it up, and probably inventing things on the fly for it as well.


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2010)

> when were they abstract beings? they were stated to be extremely powerful, not abstracts.



They control all the forces in the universe and have existed since its creation to balance the forces of Order and Chaos and possess no physical forms, existing in a realm no other creature can access save apparently their avatar which ends up being Ben's Alien X form which is how he got stuck in that form the whole episode (BTAF S2 Ep13). What would you call them? Extremely powerful is such an understatement it doesn't come close to being funny. The first thing Ben did as Alien X was reverse time on the Dam and reverse all the damage that was done.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvfB-kmbM1I[/YOUTUBE]


> when you say BTverse you mean the ben tenverse. Ben 10 Alien force and whatever this new UA is, are different.



How is it different? AF and UA are continuations of the same series. Frankly it's much better than the original series. I hated Ben as a kid, though Gwen was definitely more magically attuned in the 1st series. She needs to get back to studying magic more seriously.


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## paulatreides0 (Jul 1, 2010)

Raigen said:


> *They control all the forces in the universe and have existed since its creation to balance the forces of Order and Chaos* and possess no physical forms, existing in a realm no other creature can access save apparently their avatar which ends up being Ben's Alien X form which is how he got stuck in that form the whole episode (BTAF S2 Ep13).



Any actual feats to back that up. Because, IIRC, what Alien X actually didn't wasn't anywhere near impressive enough to merit all that.



Raigen said:


> The first thing Ben did as Alien X was reverse time on the Dam and reverse all the damage that was done.
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvfB-kmbM1I[/YOUTUBE]



Are we talking about the same Alien X who is the master of procrastination? That one that has pretty much no feats, and who's supposedly ridiculously powerful masters take MILLIONS of years just to make up their minds about SIMPLE things??




Raigen said:


> *Frankly it's much better than the original series.*


No... Just... No....

Ben reaches for the Omnitrix...and gets mindraped before he can move a muscle.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2010)

Overhyped alien is overhyped.


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## Banhammer (Jul 1, 2010)

As far as I know, there is absolutely no single ben 10 entity that has the feats to stack up with an average Force master of the EU

But while the amount of B10 I watched was minimal, I pay next to absolutely no attention to Alien Force.


TWF said:


> No, it won't. We went over this in the past.


What we discussed in the past is that you believed a space computer's prediction calculations, people familiarized with the object's history and super intelligent genius that invented the damned thing were all wrong about their estimative of the omnitrix's problem, then I said it was very unlikely and then I think the thread died.



> Also anyone by now should know that everything Raigen has said about abstract or cosmic beings in Ben-10 is a joke. He's making it up, and probably inventing things on the fly for it as well.



Shit, Raigen is arguing? I'm outsies.


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2010)

> Are we talking about the same Alien X who is the master of procrastination? That one that has pretty much no feats, and who's supposedly ridiculously powerful masters take MILLIONS of years just to make up their minds about SIMPLE things??



Think LT without a 3rd voice. Order and Chaos have to come to an agreement together to make a change, alteration or interfere with something in the universe, but since they're polar opposites they need a tie breaker, a 3rd voice/person to fill that role and break the stalemate. That would be Ben in Alien X form. It's only when they come to a consensus that they will actually do something.


> Ben reaches for the Omnitrix...and gets mindraped before he can move a muscle.



BTU also includes Future Ben, aka Ben 10k who can change at will. And again, Dr Paradox solos.


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## Orochibuto (Jul 1, 2010)

I say this is even, SW has the force, Ben10verse has Anodites and Celestialsapiens, both of them a race of reality warpers


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## Seyta (Jul 1, 2010)

I just want to know what they do to Paradox.

You'd need to collapse the timeline to kill him since he is actively capable of timestopping and hopping around in alternate continuities.
(Not to mention he can utilize temporal clones should he ever be killed in one continuity)

Mind-raping doesn't work in the slightest on the Paradox in the present when the Paradox from approximately two seconds ago can simply jump into the moment and stop time.


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## Es (Jul 1, 2010)

Seyta said:


> I just want to know what they do to Paradox.
> 
> You'd need to collapse the timeline to kill him since he is actively capable of timestopping and hopping around in alternate continuities.
> (Not to mention he can utilize temporal clones should he ever be killed in one continuity)
> ...


What about these guys?


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## Seyta (Jul 1, 2010)

Gundam Guy said:


> What about these guys?



Are there any more detailed descriptions of their powers?

i.e. are they just time-travelers, or can they perform actions like destroying portions of timelines, or manipulating timelines in general?


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## Es (Jul 1, 2010)

Seyta said:


> Are there any more detailed descriptions of their powers?
> 
> i.e. are they just time-travelers, or can they perform actions like destroying portions of timelines, or manipulating timelines in general?


The Essential atlas says that they're omnipotent.


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 1, 2010)

Gundam Guy said:


> The Essential atlas says that they're omnipotent.



How can all of them be Omnipotent? unless all of them are aspects of one being?


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## Es (Jul 1, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> How can all of them be Omnipotent? unless all of them are aspects of one being?


It just said one of them but maybe.


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## God (Jul 1, 2010)

Ben 10 does have a massively powerful reality warper though.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2010)

Brb checking Essential Atlas


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 1, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Ben 10 does have a massively powerful reality warper though.



Quite honestly the only chance they have is qith Paradox as Alien X is lacking in feats.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2010)

Here we go.


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 1, 2010)

They can't all be Omnipotent though...


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2010)

I'd say nigh omnipotent, more or less.


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## God (Jul 1, 2010)

He was stated to be the strongest alien in the universe, and as an homage to the Living Tribunal, it's not hard to believe, considering his most casual feat was turning back time/negating eality/whatever this is Link removed

So Alien X should come in their first line of defense.


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 1, 2010)

Cubey said:


> He was stated to be the strongest alien in the universe, and as an homage to the Living Tribunal, it's not hard to believe, considering his most casual feat was turning back time/negating eality/whatever this is Link removed
> 
> So Alien X should come in their first line of defense.



He just rewinded time, that's all he's ever shown nothing more and after that he just shut down because the idiot talking heads couldn't agree on what to do next.
he doesn't have enough feats to be used in versus matchs


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## God (Jul 1, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> He just rewinded time, that's all he's ever shown nothing more and after that he just shut down because the idiot talking heads couldn't agree on what to do next.
> he doesn't have enough feats to be used in versus matchs



He's shown to be a powerful reality warper, that's all you need with that ability. He lacks feats but as the strongest alien in the universe, he's above people like Paradox.

Alien X is bloodlusted, so the heads will agree to beat the foe.


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 1, 2010)

Cubey said:


> He's shown to be a powerful reality warper, that's all you need with that ability. He lacks feats but as the strongest alien in the universe, he's above people like Paradox.
> 
> Alien X is bloodlusted, so the heads will agree to beat the foe.



Rewinding time is again all he's shown though...he hasn't shown anything more than that, all he has left is hype and powerscaling and nothing more

He's not above Paradox in anything.


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## Endless Mike (Jul 1, 2010)

It's obviously hyperbole like how Darkseid and Odin are called omnipotent.


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## God (Jul 1, 2010)

Serena and Bellicus, Alien X's two other components said he could do whatever he wanted. He's the strongest alien in the universe, and he rewinded time casually.

All that had to happen was Alien X had to decide to take action. And nothing contradicts these statements.

EDIT: Ok, he's not anywhere close to omnipotent, but he's still a reality warper no? What suggests he isn't?

But anyways, Ben10verse gets raped.


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## Shoddragon (Jul 1, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Serena and Bellicus, Alien X's two other components said he could do *1.whatever he wanted*. *2.He's the strongest alien in the universe*, and he rewinded time casually.
> 
> All that had to happen was Alien X had to decide to take action. And *nothing contradicts these statements.*
> 
> ...



1. Unproven statement. Likely hyperbole.
2.proof of that? was it stated? if so, by who? are said people reliable? can they prove it?
3.they still need proof.
4. agreed.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2010)

So basically all he can do is manipulate time to a certain degree. Until we see more feats from Alien X, no reason to assume that he can do as he's been stated or claimed to do, even by the abstract voices within him.


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## God (Jul 1, 2010)

Ok.. I guess that's fair, not like they would've had a chance anyways.


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## hammer (Jul 1, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> Quite honestly the only chance they have is qith Paradox as Alien X is lacking in feats.



when nen was X if they where nto such dumbasses with voting diddnt they mention if they wanted to the ychould save the dinosours?


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## Seyta (Jul 1, 2010)

The Bedlam spirits should take care of Paradox then, considering this is multiple time and reality warpers against one.

I'm still a bit confused by the description though...
How are they all omnipotent...?


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 1, 2010)

Seyta said:


> The Bedlam spirits should take care of Paradox then, considering this is multiple time and reality warpers against one.
> 
> I'm still a bit confused by the description though...
> How are they all omnipotent...?



They can't all be all powerful because there can't be more than one Omnipotent in a verse, they're more likely abstracts or possibly higher


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## Endless Mike (Jul 1, 2010)

Or, like I said, it's just hyperbole


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## Fang (Jul 1, 2010)

Luke Skywalker kills abstracts.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2010)

More than likely, they're not. One of the reasons being for them supposedly having childish behavior.

Nigh Omnipotent, possibly.


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## Orochibuto (Jul 1, 2010)

Why no one take in count the Anodites? They are beigns made of pure energy, there is an entire planet of them and all of them are reality warpers. Supposedly not as strong as Alien X because Alien X can warp reality on a whim and with mere thought, and Anodites need to snap their fingers to warp reality. Anodites do have more feats and mare made of pure energy, also it is to note that when Gwen went into her Anodite form and in said form she didn't even had full maestry over her powers (as stated by Kevin and admitted by herself) she was confident she could solo the Highbreed.


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 1, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Why no one take in count the Anodites? They are beigns made of pure energy, there is an entire planet of them and all of them are reality warpers. Supposedly not as strong as Alien X because Alien X can warp reality on a whim and with mere thought, and Anodites need to snap their fingers to warp reality.



...and the only one of them with feats is Gwen's grandmother...


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2010)

Not forgetting Gwen as well.


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## Fang (Jul 1, 2010)

And EU has a device that will break down the universe.

Okay.


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## God (Jul 1, 2010)

Damn, Star Wars is broken


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## Fang (Jul 1, 2010)

We're using conjecture right?


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## God (Jul 1, 2010)

Yes, since I know next to nothing about the verse.


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## Fang (Jul 1, 2010)

Yeah, its never been used.

But its there.


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2010)

Powerscaling. Alien X is part of Order/Chaos and is stated as most powerful beings in the universe, yes? Alright, if that's true, what're they more powerful than? Let's see what BTU has to offer. Anodites with reality warping magic. Way-Big with massive size and strength and was capable of sending Vilgax into space by throwing him. XLR8 with super-speed, super-sonic ranges so far. Brain Storm, increased mental capacity and bio-electrical discharges from the brain. Galvans; super-intelligent race that created an ever-expanding dimension (the Null Void) and used it for resources while other races used it as dumping ground for criminals.

Ghost freak can possess people, has some mental properties (tk I think) and includes phasing. Other alien races can also phase through matter, like Big Chill who can also freeze objects by passing through them. Others can control/manipulate other elements as well, including energy. Even aliens than can replicate themselves almost indefinitely and possess ultrasonic powers.


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## Fang (Jul 1, 2010)

Stop repeating the same debunked bullshit.


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## God (Jul 1, 2010)

Raigen, the Alien X thing was beaten down in the last page.

And that's all pretty much fodder in the face of galactic scale powers.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Powerscaling. Alien X is part of Order/Chaos and is stated as most powerful beings in the universe, yes? Alright, if that's true, what're they more powerful than?



There's no reason to assume that he is since there's nothing to back up the claim from the personalities inside of Alien X. So it's inconclusive until proven otherwise. 



Raigen said:


> Let's see what BTU has to offer. Anodites with reality warping magic. Way-Big with massive size and strength and was capable of sending Vilgax into space by throwing him. XLR8 with super-speed, super-sonic ranges so far. Brain Storm, increased mental capacity and bio-electrical discharges from the brain. Galvans; super-intelligent race that created an ever-expanding dimension (the Null Void) and used it for resources while other races used it as dumping ground for criminals.



Luke Skywalker, Darth Bane, Palpatine, Luke Skywalker, Exar Kun, Naga Sadow, Luke Skywalker, Galen Marek, Revan, Nihilus, Kreia, Luke Skywalker

LUKE SKYWALKER



Raigen said:


> Ghost freak can possess people, has some mental properties (tk I think) and includes phasing.



This is nothing new in the Star Wars universe



Raigen said:


> Other alien races can also phase through matter, like Big Chill who can also freeze objects by passing through them. Others can control/manipulate other elements as well, including energy. Even aliens than can replicate themselves almost indefinitely and possess ultrasonic powers.


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## Fang (Jul 1, 2010)




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## Belly Ranks (Jul 1, 2010)

DBZ is ranked higher than Ben10, and StarWars is supposedly>DBZ.

Are you trying to imply something here?


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2010)

The only thing SW has over DBZ is mind-fuckery, and that's useless unless the starting distance of a fight is of a galactic scale to keep the DBZ'ers from FTL fist-fucking them so hard their bodies explode before they have time to process the insurmountable pain and suffering entailed to such an action.

Sun Crusher and other crap are useless as Goku IT's in, nukes the thing from the inside before they get anywhere near their solar system and ports back to Earth. We've already done a DBZ vs SW thread before and it was fucking awful.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2010)

Raigen, you should to stop acting like you know what you're talking about. No one in the Dragon Ball universe is FTL, and Star Wars is above Dragon Ball in more ways than just telepathic powers and abilities. 

Derp derp


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## Endless Mike (Jul 1, 2010)

Raigen said:


> The only thing SW has over DBZ is mind-fuckery,



And numbers, and range, and firepower for their high-end weapons...



> and that's useless unless the starting distance of a fight is of a galactic scale to keep the DBZ'ers from FTL fist-fucking them so hard their bodies explode before they have time to process the insurmountable pain and suffering entailed to such an action.



ROFLMAO

Still peddling this shit, despite the thousands of times it's been debunked?



> Sun Crusher and other crap are useless as Goku IT's in, nukes the thing from the inside before they get anywhere near their solar system and ports back to Earth. We've already done a DBZ vs SW thread before and it was fucking awful.



Because he's going to sense human - equivalent ki across interstellar distances (when he had trouble finding Bulma's ki just on earth), and he's magically going to know which ki signatures to lock onto out of the billions of people on millions of ships, right?


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 1, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Raigen, you should to stop acting like you know what you're talking about.



Raigen is too special for that.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2010)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Raigen is too special for that.


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## Endless Mike (Jul 2, 2010)

Cubey said:


> What?**



Raigen thinks DBZ characters are FTL despite the fact that he's been disproven on this very point at least dozens of times.


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## God (Jul 2, 2010)

Wow, you cant be serious >_>


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## Endless Mike (Jul 2, 2010)

Why do you think we hate him so much? He never concedes an argument no matter how many times he has been proven wrong.


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## Orochibuto (Jul 2, 2010)

Would it be more fair if I change it to Galactic Empire? Also I dont think fucking DBZ is above Ben10, starwars yes, but DBZ? come on


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Would it be more fair if I change it to Galactic Empire? Also I dont think fucking DBZ is above Ben10, starwars yes, but DBZ? come on



Sun Crusher says no.


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## Orochibuto (Jul 2, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Sun Crusher says no.



What about Galactic Republic, would that be a fair fight?


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Sun Crusher says no.



Sith Meditation Spheres, Infinity Wave, Death Stars, Force itself, ect...


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2010)

The Infinity Wave is not part of the Galactic Empire, mein square. The Kwa have the rights to that shit


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2010)

It is a part of my Giogio Empire.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2010)

Giogio Destroyers


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## Orochibuto (Jul 2, 2010)

Just a question guys, seriously no flame or conflict intended, why when in 1 starwars script says those spirits are omnipotent is enough to place them as nigh-omnipotent or at least super high-end warper. But when in several alien X description it says he is a warper, the most powerful beign in ben10verse and can make all their thoughts a reality then we have "feats feats feats feats feats". But when the starwars dudes are declared nigh-omnipotent or at leas least high-level warpers we don't have everybody asking for feats and accept that they are? The same with anodites it is stated there is a planet full of them and are warpers and we have even 1 of them demonstrating it, still the entire race is dimissed because "only one of them showed feats, so only that one counts" even that said one of them is nothing special and is just a member of that race, still when one starwars script declares dudes as omnipotents it is enough to declare them nigh-omnipotent or high end warpers.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 2, 2010)

Shoddragon said:


> and what exactly makes makes any of those immune to being mindraped and forced to kill each other?
> 
> I thought this was the original ben 10: not shitty alien force.


is call paradox, 



Belly Ranks said:


> DBZ is ranked higher than Ben10, and StarWars is supposedly>DBZ.
> 
> Are you trying to imply something here?


what the fuck is this shit, paradox alone take DBZ, I think there was even a thread 


Orochibuto said:


> Just a question guys, seriously no flame or conflict intended, why when in 1 starwars script says those spirits are omnipotent is enough to place them as nigh-omnipotent or at least super high-end warper. But when in several alien X description it says he is a warper, the most powerful beign in ben10verse and can make all their thoughts a reality then we have "feats feats feats feats feats". But when the starwars dudes are declared nigh-omnipotent or at leas least high-level warpers we don't have everybody asking for feats and accept that they are? The same with anodites it is stated there is a planet full of them and are warpers and we have even 1 of them demonstrating it, still the entire race is dimissed because "only one of them showed feats, so only that one counts" even that said one of them is nothing special and is just a member of that race, still when one starwars script declares dudes as omnipotents it is enough to declare them nigh-omnipotent or high end warpers.


welcome to the OBD where series with the most die hard base tend to be the one that gets easier


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2010)

Ben 10 wanking by the guy who thinks Decade's AR Riders are equivalent to the real ones.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> Ben 10 wanking by the guy who thinks Decade's AR Riders are equivalent to the real ones.



nice red herring, ad hominen there, and Poisoning the well, anyways how about we stay on topic and you show me some quality proof, like feats, from movies/books, of they being actual nigh omnipotent beings, as oppose to some databook type shit, with no evidence to back it up,  until them paradox solos


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2010)

You just misused three attempts at fallacies at once, what a talent. And Paradox isn't anything remotely close to your claims.

He has done next to nothing.

Stop repeating the same tired bullshit as Raigen.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> You just misused three attempts at fallacies at once, what a talent. And Paradox isn't anything remotely close to your claims.
> 
> He has done next to nothing.
> 
> Stop repeating the same tired bullshit as Raigen.


changing the topic and using my belief to personally attack me and try to question the validity of my claim because of my beliefs, sorry TWF you fail at trolling anyways watch this video, and replace the protagonist for jedis and soldiers and ships and the moon for the sun
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5bsDHQD654[/YOUTUBE]


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2010)

Good job at still not knowing how an ad hominem or red herrings actually work: cue repeated circular arguments. Still nothing shows anything at all with that clip.

Your doing it again.

edit: hey, you really are doing it again and I am not watching a music video for a shitty cartoon like ben 10.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> Good job at still not knowing how an ad hominem or red herrings actually work: cue repeated circular arguments. Still nothing shows anything at all with that clip.
> 
> Your doing it again.
> 
> edit: hey, you really are doing it again and I am not watching a music video for a shitty cartoon like ben 10.



turn down the volume, anyways from 3:37 to 3:40 he teleport them to the moon


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 2, 2010)

Link removed
at 8:01 anomaly aged Kevin
and kevin didn?t even touch him, he just phased through him
paradox is say to takes on thousands monster like that
at 14:01 he teleport them to the moon
he has or better he will save the universe with verse together with ben 10
17:50 he send them back to the past 
etc.etc.


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2010)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> turn down the volume, anyways from 3:37 to 3:40 he teleport them to the moon



Who gives a shit, Sidious can destroy souls, and teleport Luke literally across the galaxy.

Sidious is nigh omnipotent right?


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> Who gives a shit, Sidious can destroy souls, and teleport Luke literally across the galaxy.
> 
> Sidious is nigh omnipotent right?



and how is sidius suppose to harm someone who for starters doesn't exist in the time line, have he feats of that no? has anyone in star wars feats of doing that? no, can they harm him? no, even if they did paradox from the past would just come and kill them, can he kill them before they where even born? yes


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2010)

By transferring his soul into Paradox's body


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## God (Jul 2, 2010)

Have these nigh-omnipotent beings in SW actual feats to be claimed as such?


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## Es (Jul 2, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Have these nigh-omnipotent beings in SW actual feats to be claimed as such?


They can manipulate time and resurrect people.


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Have these nigh-omnipotent beings in SW actual feats to be claimed as such?



Why does it matter when no one in Ben-10 is a threat to a galaxy or even a planet?


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 2, 2010)

Gundam Guy said:


> They can manipulate time and resurrect people.


good, now tell me more, what can they do?, whats the max they been able to show?, does it apply to everyone?, in what books has it been shown? 



Darth Nihilus said:


> By transferring his soul into Paradox's body


and whats stopping paradox from make the time around him absurdly faster, so that in their perspective he is faster than they are, or the paradox from the past to come and destroy them?, you'll need better than that.



TWF said:


> Why does it matter when no one in Ben-10 is a threat to a galaxy or even a planet?



it does matter because paradox can kill them before they where even born


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## God (Jul 2, 2010)

The point is that, the lack of feats keeps Alien X from being anymore than fodder in this match despite contradicting depiction in the show.

It's only fair that the same logic be used to scrutinize SW.


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2010)

Again, its moot since nothing in Ben 10 has ever been a threat to Star Wars.
No planet busters.
No cosmics.
Nothing.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> Again, its moot since nothing in Ben 10 has ever been a threat to Star Wars.
> No planet busters.
> No cosmics.
> Nothing.


do  any of them have feats of beating a entities like paradox? come back when you have them?


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2010)

Keep repeating the same wank, mein circle.

Its not changing anything here.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> Keep repeating the same wank, mein circle.
> 
> Its not changing anything here.



no feats, thanks for your concession


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2010)

Palpatine mindfucking him


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## Es (Jul 2, 2010)

Should I also mention the Darkstaff, a planet busting, Force storm creating, time Traveling Sith artifact to shut BFD up?


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 2, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Palpatine mindfucking him



he went insane and got bore of it so he went back to be sane, is all in the episode I linked, I'll need something more solid, The Bedlam spirits spirit, you guys said they could alter time, do you have any feats of it




Gundam Guy said:


> Should I also mention the Darkstaff, a planet busting, Force storm creating, time Traveling Sith artifact to shut BFD up?


a time traveler artifact, versus a time warper, that can exist at several place at the same time, nah, you'll need something better, the time and reality warper race, do they have any feats, because as stands right now, they are the only one capable of defeating him.


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## God (Jul 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> Again, its moot since nothing in Ben 10 has ever been a threat to Star Wars.
> No planet busters.
> No cosmics.
> Nothing.



This was not my question though. It's obvious Ben10 gets swiftly raped, but have the nigh-omnipotent spirits ever DONE anything?


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## Es (Jul 2, 2010)

Cubey said:


> This was not my question though. It's obvious Ben10 gets swiftly raped, but have the nigh-omnipotent spirits ever DONE anything?


They turned some stormtroopers into Diamond resurrected them  and sent them into the past.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 2, 2010)

Gundam Guy said:


> They sent some stormtroopers a thousand years in the past, and turned Princess Lea's Heart into Diamond.



good, do they exist outside the time line?, if so can they affect another beings like themselves?


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2010)

What is it with you and characters existing outside of time as if it's going to mean something here?


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## God (Jul 2, 2010)

She can manipulate time and space, that's all anyone had to say 

I'm good, now.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 2, 2010)

Gundam Guy said:


> They turned some stormtroopers into Diamond resurrected them  and sent them into the past.



you see, this is all it was need it, if you are able to prove your statements, do it, when you make you statements, so you don't look like a fool spouting nonsense



Darth Nihilus said:


> What is it with you and characters existing outside of time as if it's going to mean something here?


technically someone who exist out time, to others time perspective doesn't exist


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 2, 2010)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> so you don't look like a fool spouting nonsense



this is irony at its finest


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## Banhammer (Jul 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> Again, its moot since nothing in Ben 10 has ever been a threat to Star Wars.
> No planet busters.



actually I'm quite confident there used to be this diamond planet of the crystal guy's civilization that got casually wiped out of space.


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2010)

Cubey said:


> This was not my question though. It's obvious Ben10 gets swiftly raped, but have the nigh-omnipotent spirits ever DONE anything?



When the fuck have I said anything about nigh omnipotents existing in Star Wars


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2010)

He's referring to the post earlier made by Gundam Guy about the Bedlam Spirits.


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## Es (Jul 2, 2010)

I admit it it likely to be hyperbole but still they could rape the Ben 10 verse even harder with them.


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## God (Jul 2, 2010)

Those spirits that were stated to be "omnipotent". I think they're called the Bedlam Spirits?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 2, 2010)

hey guys

cut through a cliff


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## Endless Mike (Jul 2, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Just a question guys, seriously no flame or conflict intended, why when in 1 starwars script says those spirits are omnipotent is enough to place them as nigh-omnipotent or at least super high-end warper. But when in several alien X description it says he is a warper, the most powerful beign in ben10verse and can make all their thoughts a reality then we have "feats feats feats feats feats". But when the starwars dudes are declared nigh-omnipotent or at leas least high-level warpers we don't have everybody asking for feats and accept that they are? The same with anodites it is stated there is a planet full of them and are warpers and we have even 1 of them demonstrating it, still the entire race is dimissed because "only one of them showed feats, so only that one counts" even that said one of them is nothing special and is just a member of that race, still when one starwars script declares dudes as omnipotents it is enough to declare them nigh-omnipotent or high end warpers.



I don't think anyone is actually saying they are that powerful.


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## Orochibuto (Jul 3, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> I don't think anyone is actually saying they are that powerful.



You should check the posts saying that Bedlam spirits are raping the Ben10verse hard, but of course when it comes to Anodites (a race full of warpers) you can only count one Anodite because "Only one showed feats" ignoring the fact that there is an entire race of Anodites like this one. Also with alien X Besides all the statements made, and that the official description says that he is a warper with the powers to make all his thoughts a reality, but all people says is "feats feats feats feats". And some of the same people who goes with Anodites and Alien X with "feats feats feats" are the same ones who say that BS solo the Ben10verse easily, when they are on the same situation as Anodites and AlienX.

I will concede that AlienX could be dobutful because all we have is a time-reversal and written in the official description his power "makes his thoughts reality". But come one Anodites have already proven to warp reality, we even seen scene of their planet from the outside, and Gwen claiming she could solo the Highbreed (Galactic Conqueros that went unmatched and just 1 ship of their fleet was enough to solo the earth( when she attained an unmastered Anodite form, but still "Only one Anodite counts because only that showed. Still some people claim BS are raping Ben10verse, I mean come on.


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 3, 2010)

Because we don't know how powerful the rest of the anodite race is individually or together. claiming they can do something i just making an assumption as there's nothing backing that claim up.

If there was actually some proof to your claim other than what Gwen and her grandmother has said and hype, I wouldn't have a problem with it


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## God (Jul 3, 2010)

Look, one Anodite had feats of reality warping. This Anodite was just one in a race of them, use your common sense.

And if you wanna keep spouting off FEATS FEATS FEATS then dont bring up the Bedlam Spirits.


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## God (Jul 3, 2010)

Does that matter? When an ordinary member of the Anodites was capable of it, without any extraordinary powers. Does the author have to draw every one of them doing the same thing for them to be of any use here 

As it stands, both Anodites and Bedlam Spirits had feats, so they are both usable.


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## Fang (Jul 3, 2010)

Every Force User is equivalent to Palpatine then.

Derp.


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## God (Jul 3, 2010)

No because we've seen other Force users at different levels than Palpatine.

I dont even know why this debate is still going on tbh, it's clear that SWverse rapes.


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## Shoddragon (Jul 3, 2010)

Cubey said:


> No because we've seen other Force users at different levels than Palpatine.
> 
> I dont even know why this debate is still going on tbh, i*t's clear that SWverse rapes*.






Shoddragon said:


> oh...................... my.............................. god. does ben10verse really deserve this? REALLY? fucking REALLY? multiple people in star wars can mindfuck the whole verse. looks like ben 10 needs some industrial strength lube for this.



I called it first


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## Fang (Jul 3, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Does that matter? When an ordinary member of the Anodites was capable of it, without any extraordinary powers. Does the author have to draw every one of them doing the same thing for them to be of any use here
> 
> As it stands, both Anodites and Bedlam Spirits had feats, so they are both usable.





Cubey said:


> Look, one Anodite had feats of reality warping. This Anodite was just one in a race of them, use your common sense.
> 
> And if you wanna keep spouting off FEATS FEATS FEATS then dont bring up the Bedlam Spirits.





Emperor Joker said:


> Because we don't know how powerful the rest of the anodite race is individually or together. claiming they can do something i just making an assumption as there's nothing backing that claim up.
> 
> If there was actually some proof to your claim other than what Gwen and her grandmother has said and hype, I wouldn't have a problem with it



Because you keep ignoring Joker's response.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2010)

Looks like I'm gonna have to find this Classic Star Wars comic


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## Banhammer (Jul 3, 2010)

Shoddragon said:


> I called it first



You called nonsense. You were throwing around universal level mindfucks on a galaxy level canon.
There's validity to a SW's victory claim but it sure as hell isn't through you.



Also, I'm not sure what the question about this "if one has they all have it" feats.
If this is an omnixtrix creature, it should be noted that the omnitrix turns you into just a *generic* specimen of the selected Race. Everyone of that race has the same power level as him
 If anything, something that was a plot point at least in the initial series, is that because of his lack of knowledge and practice, Ben's versions of his aliens are usually weaker than the real thing and the average individual of that race because he has no idea how to pull most of the tricks out.


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## Fang (Jul 3, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Nothing suggests anything was out of the ordinary about that one member.



Your logic doesn't work.


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## Fang (Jul 3, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> You called nonsense. You were throwing around universal level mindfucks on a galaxy level canon.
> There's validity to a SW's victory claim but it sure as hell isn't through you.



What the hell are you talking about


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## Orochibuto (Jul 3, 2010)

Simply if you are going to keep spouting FEATS FEATS FEATS FEATS, you have to take out the Bedlam Spirits as well because they are under the same situation as the Anodites race, still some people claim "they can rape Ben10verse". If you are going to keep that strict standarfs of fucking feats then use it on both series.


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## Shoddragon (Jul 3, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> You called nonsense. You were throwing around universal level mindfucks on a galaxy level canon.
> There's validity to a SW's victory claim but it sure as hell isn't through you.
> 
> 
> ...




yes, because all of the minds in Ben 10 are equivalent to a universe .


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## HeOf7 (Jul 3, 2010)

G-canon Starwarsverse gets raped pretty bad.


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## Banhammer (Jul 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> What the hell are you talking about




As far as I understand, and feel free to correct me, the Star Wars relevant canon spans across a galaxy, yes? In possibly our universe nonetheless, but let's put that itty bit of nonsense aside.
One inhabited galaxy, this I believe I am not wrong about.

And there is one or two, or maybe even a dozen of syth lords who can mindfuck the galaxy they're in.

It's just that it turns out Ben10's relevant canon is not spanned and inhabited across a galaxy but across the whole universe, which means several galaxy nests at the least.

So, on range alone, to claim the syth lords will mindrape the entire ben10 universe simultaneously and single handedly is at minimum an unreal expectation


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## Banhammer (Jul 3, 2010)

> yes, because all of the minds in Ben 10 are equivalent to a universe .


Shoo you, back to the bridge


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## Shoddragon (Jul 3, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Shoo you, back to the bridge



you massively underestimate the range of star wars character. that, and hyperspace travel.


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## HeOf7 (Jul 3, 2010)

Isn't all of Starwarsverse contend in one galaxy far far away?


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## Fang (Jul 3, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> As far as I understand, and feel free to correct me, the Star Wars relevant canon spans across a galaxy, yes?



No.



> In possibly our universe nonetheless, but let's put that itty bit of nonsense aside.
> One inhabited galaxy, this I believe I am not wrong about.



No.



> And there is one or two, or maybe even a dozen of syth lords who can mindfuck the galaxy they're in.



No.



> It's just that it turns out Ben10's relevant canon is not spanned and inhabited across a galaxy but across the whole universe, which means several galaxy nests at the least.



The Force is universal and multi-dimensional.



> So, on range alone, to claim the syth lords will mindrape the entire ben10 universe simultaneously and single handedly is at minimum an unreal expectation





> to claim the syth lords will mindrape the entire ben10 universe





> claim the syth lords





> the syth lords





> *syth lords*


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## Seyta (Jul 3, 2010)

This is still going on???????

This can go 1 of two ways.

If character statements and external sources are taken into context, then the Omnitrix is going to make this a tie...

If only canonical feats are allowed... well... then I really don't know what happens since the only thing to counter Paradox has been the Bedlam Spirits, but they fall under the "external sources" description for the majority of their abilities (i.e. the scan Darth Nihilus provided).


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## God (Jul 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> Your logic doesn't work.



How so? If a member of a species with a known ability shows feats of that ability, that's enough to say every member is capable of it, since that's what they do. The author doesn't have to show each member of the species exhibiting said ability to prove they can all do it.


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## Orochibuto (Jul 3, 2010)

Seyta said:


> This is still going on???????
> 
> This can go 1 of two ways.
> 
> ...



And if you take the Bedlam Spirits, you must also take the entire Anodites race and Alien X, fair is fair. It isn't just to have one side claiming "FEATS FEATS FEATS FEATS FEATS" and on the other "mmmm ok, it is said they are omnipotent, so at least is fair to asume they can alone rape the Ben10verse".

And the same thing must apply for ben10 of course.


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## Fang (Jul 3, 2010)

Cubey said:


> *sniped*



*Prove it.*

The standard Force-User has encompassing abilities in telekinesis, empathy, hypnosis, and prescience because they have shown it. 

Showings take precedence.


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## God (Jul 3, 2010)

And the standard Anodite has SHOWN reality warping. Showings certainly take precedence, and luckily this race HAS them.

But saying that only one member of a race of identical members can do something attributed to them ALL is just ridiculous.


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## Fang (Jul 3, 2010)

Except that Star Wars has this in various medias (novels, comics, games, tv series, films, source books, ect...) and has shown it on and off panel, for no name fodder.

Therefore, you have nothing.


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## God (Jul 3, 2010)

Was the feat shown in both cases? Yes. Was there anything out of the ordinary with the being that did this? No (in the case of B10) So should the feat work in the case an entire race? Why not?

You're failing to prove why it shouldn't be applicable, I mean you wanted it shown and it was. What more do you need?


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## Shoddragon (Jul 3, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Was the feat shown in both cases? Yes. Was there anything out of the ordinary with the being that did this? No (in the case of B10) So should the feat work in the case an entire race? Why not?
> 
> You're failing to prove why it shouldn't be applicable, I mean you wanted it shown and it was. What more do you need?




assuming the anodites= what gewn's grandma was........ how do we even know an average one is that strong? for all we know she is among the oldest there, or youngest. or maybe she IS average. but you can't tell from ONE showing from ONE being of an entire race. thats like watching/reading about a fodder jedi and upon that assuming all jedi are that strong ( methinks TWF already made such an analogy, maybe with some kind of hurpa dee derp involved as he usually does).


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## God (Jul 3, 2010)

All matured Anodites can manipulate reality, please prove that that showing was inconsistent with what was said and shown of the species. Because until you do, there's no reason to believe so. Also, Gwen has also shown limited reality warping I believe.

All I really want is for the same logic to be applied on both sides. That said, I think this thread should be done with by now.


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## Fang (Jul 3, 2010)

Since you can't actually refute what I'm saying with physical evidence, I'm just going to roll my eyes here.


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## God (Jul 3, 2010)

I'm not arguing against SW anymore, I'm simply playing devil's advocate for Ben10. You have not explained why the Anodites shouldn't be taken at face value, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Except I agree they get raped.


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## Fang (Jul 3, 2010)

I'm saying your recycling the same stagnate arguments and using a wiki that isn't going to convince me.


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## Es (Jul 3, 2010)

Diskyr said:


> Then what can convince you, oh so high and mighty troll?
> 
> The rep points from Naruto Forums must've really fed your ego


Diskyr do us all a favor and just stop fucking posting


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## paulatreides0 (Jul 3, 2010)

Diskyr said:


> Then what can convince you, oh so high and mighty troll?
> 
> The rep points from Naruto Forums must've really fed your ego



It's not that. The wiki could be making assumptions as well. Remember, wikis are made by fans and normal people, not the companies themselves. Furthermore, they could be going off of solely word of mouth... Word of Mouth is useless in the OBD. In fact, anything but feats or data from an accurate and consistent data book mean nothing to the OBD. Those are what we use. We mainly only use wikis to get generally known information that has been explained a few dozen times but we are too lazy to explain........._again_


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## God (Jul 4, 2010)

Example of when people take things too seriously.

At the end of this episode she does it and several other times throughout the series.


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## Id (Jul 4, 2010)




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## Id (Jul 5, 2010)

Topic is now opened.


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## paulatreides0 (Jul 5, 2010)

Why open it? I mean, this is a retardedly obvious win for SW anyhow.


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## paulatreides0 (Jul 5, 2010)

GG, shut up.


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## Banhammer (Jul 5, 2010)

TWF said:


> No.



You know it's rather unseemingly to just spit two letters. I asked to be corrected not just contradicted





> The Force is universal and multi-dimensional.



:rollseyes









>



You're perfectly aware that the vastest range I've ever been exposed to is a "clouding of the force" done by sith lords, so get off your fucking high EU horse. Just because I didn't delve in every promo, every novel every book and every comic doesn't mean I'm wrong, but I don't choose to be rude about it, or proclaimed to be right, so you might as well just choose to help.
Now *please *bring something of value to a conversation where people are actually interested in hearing what you have to say instead of pseudocondescending bull.

Be an example, or be just as bad as cubey.


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## Banhammer (Jul 5, 2010)

It's like, I didn't even ask for direct quotes or scans or some obssessed bull, or even went back to the ignored argument of omnitrix self destruction.


> What we discussed in the past is that you believed a space computer's prediction calculations, people familiarized with the object's history and emotionally detached super intelligent genius that invented the damned thing were all wrong about their estimative of the omnitrix's problem, then I said it was very unlikely and then I think the thread died.


That one. I'm very comfortable with the complete disregard of that problem


I just asked for moments where "In a galaxy far far away" has been properly contradicted.



Take that clone wars movie. Obi Wan opens up a map for everything known to the empire.
Was there a universal representation there?


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## God (Jul 5, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Be an example, or be just as bad as cubey.



What the fuck did I do except try to come to an understanding in this thread?


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## Platinum (Jul 5, 2010)

Cubey said:


> What the fuck did I do except try to come to an understanding in this thread?



You are Cubey. That's what you did.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 5, 2010)

Cubey, you're not getting that cT set


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## Platinum (Jul 5, 2010)

I'm telling you. He needs a build grist set.


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## zenieth (Jul 5, 2010)

Cubey needs to wear a grist set.


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## God (Jul 5, 2010)

I'm cT, so fuck you


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 5, 2010)

no, no you're not


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## God (Jul 5, 2010)

Why yes, yes I am :33


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 5, 2010)

not really 

not at all


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## God (Jul 5, 2010)

Besides it's not like I can even take Tavros anyhow.


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## zenieth (Jul 5, 2010)

Build grist set.


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## God (Jul 5, 2010)

Get me one


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