# Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagan vs Galactus



## atom (Jun 3, 2008)

A couple scenario's:

Scenario One:
Both are at their outmost maxium power and have any abilities they have been shown to have (Even if this has only been shown for a couple seconds). Hyperbole is allowed. 

Scenario Two:
Same as Scenario One but no Hyperbole is allowed

Scenario Three:
TTGL has no "reality warping" and Galactus has no UN.


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## Shuntensatsu (Jun 3, 2008)

Galactus wins all three as his powers are not supplied by jobbing and massive PIS.


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## Arishem (Jun 3, 2008)

Simon discovers that his Spiral Power is nothing compared to the Power Cosmic.


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## Id (Jun 3, 2008)

Galactus all 3.


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## atom (Jun 3, 2008)

Oh really? What has Galactus done that puts him over TTGL. Some scans would be helpful


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## Lord Genome (Jun 3, 2008)

In senario 1, would TTGL's defieing probability help at all?''

I know its screwed in 2 and 3 though


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## strongarm85 (Jun 3, 2008)

Shuntensatsu said:


> Galactus wins all three as his powers are not supplied by jobbing and massive PIS.



Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann never has jobbing or is influenced by PIS. If you had watched series and payed attention you would have known this.

Allow me to explain what Spiral Energy is.

Spiral Energy defies the Conservation of Energy, and also the laws physics. It is a created by every living thing that is capable of evolving, it is literally the power of evolution. The amount of Spiral Energy created by someone varies depending on their own physical limitations and also their will to survive, and to ensure the survival of the next generation. Also, each successive generation becomes even stronger than the last. 

This is why the creation of the Beastmen was important. Because the Beastman are incapable of reproducing they are incapable to producing Spiral Power beyond their own physical capabilities. Because Spiral Power becomes stronger with each passing generation, Simon who was born in a much later generation had more Spiral Power than any of the beastmen where capable and even Lord Genome, known as greatest Spiral Knight, where capable of producing. They didn't beat Lord Genome and the Beastmen because of some jobbing, they beat Lord Genome and the Beastmen because Simon had more Spiral Power than Lord Genome and Genome didn't make the Beast Men as strong as he was.

Because Spiral Energy defies the Conservation of Energy, if you have enough spiral power you can do things like create matter, regenerate machines, grant immortality, allegedly you can use it to bring people back from the dead, and you can even create tunnels threw Time and Space and travel across dimensions.

There is a downside to this as well. Because Spiral Energy defies Conservation of Energy, using it will eventually cause the whole universe to collapse into a giant black hole. This event is called the Spiral Nemesis.

The Anti-Spirals realized this. They are a race of Spirals. Realizing that Spiral Power would destroy the Universe they went to war with other Spiral Races, destroyed many, and those who surrendered where allowed to continue living on in very limited numbers. While this was going on the Anti-Spirals used their Spiral power to create a separate Universe for them to live in a space between the 11th and 12th dimensions using Spiral Power. After achieving final victory they proceeded to seal the bodies of every member of their race except for one. Because they sealed their bodies they stopped being able to evolve and so the amount of Spiral Power they where capable of creating was also capped at that point. Whatever their physical bodies where capable producing was all they would ever going to be capable of producing because they could no longer evolve. Because of this they where bound to be surpassed, given enough time, by Spirals that where stronger then them.

What does all this really mean though?

Well for one it means that all those idiots who claim that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann has no limits is completely wrong. There are limits to Spiral Power, they're exists at such a high level that they're totally unquantifable in terms of numbers. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is the limit of Spiral Power. It cannot become stronger than that. The only reason they got away with creating Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann was because they where in an alternate Universe that could support such a thing existing in it. If Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann existed in the real universe its mere presence would destroy the entire Universe and would in effect cause the Spiral Nemesis to Happen. It is 1/8th the size of our Universe. While it may be true that Spiral Power grows more and more with each generation, using it that extent, or an even greater extent, would destroy the Universe in the process.

They're not the only idiots though. Everyone who claims Jobbing and PIS are also idiots because clearly stated that the good guys are in fact stronger than the bad guys.


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## strongarm85 (Jun 3, 2008)

atom said:


> A couple scenario's:
> 
> Scenario One:
> Both are at their outmost maxium power and have any abilities they have been shown to have (Even if this has only been shown for a couple seconds). Hyperbole is allowed.
> ...



I created this exact thread back around last November and made the same mistake that you did.

Galactus is from a Universe that preceded the current Marvel Universe. His universe suffered a Big Crunch, where everything in the Universe combined into a single quantum singularity. When that happened the collective contousnesses of all the people in that universe combined and Galan, who was the only one to survive the Big Crunch combined with collective consciousness of his Universe to form Galactus.

Galactus has a constant need to feed himself. If he's really hungry he becomes weak enough to be defeated by some of the lower end Marvel characters, but at full power he posses the collective energy of an entire universe.

He is capable of many of the same feats at full power that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is. Both TTGL and Galactus are capable of the following.

Matter creation and restructuring
Teleportation of Galaxy sized objects
Galactus is even capable of changing his size and could potentially be as Big as Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.

Galactus has a few feats that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann does no have. For instance Galactus has resurected a world that he destroyed, including all the people he killed on the planet and everything on the planet down the very last detail.

Basically at full power Galactus can do everything that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann can do, plus a few more things. Like Telekensis, and Telepathy.

Lets also not forget Awareness on a Universal Scale. Basically if Galactus wanted to put down Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann all he'd have to do is mind rape the Spirals inside it into brain dead meat puppets and the fight would be over immediately.

Want to know something else, the Ultimate Nullifier is made out of piece of Galactus, Galactus at full power would have that too. He could just remove all of their spiral power and Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann would not exist anymore.

Scenario one is a Rape

Scenario two is a Rape

Scenario three is a Rape because you took away TTGL's ability to create Matter which is considered a type of Reality Warping. Galactus at full power is capable of the same. But he's also capable of mind rapping them all into Oblivion.

Basically Galactus vs. TTGL can be a rape either way deepending on what your allowing Galactus to do. Most of them time Galactus is beaten its because he's severely weakened. A severely weakened, starving Galactus would be stomped by Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, which is how Galactus appears most of the time. But if Galactus is at full power he would stomp the hell out of TTGL, no problem.


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## Sasori (Jun 3, 2008)

strongarm85 said:


> Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann never has jobbing or is influenced by PIS. If you had watched series and payed attention you would have known this.
> 
> Allow me to explain what Spiral Energy is.
> 
> ...


Serious analysis of TTGL?

lol. Just lol.


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## strongarm85 (Jun 3, 2008)

Just goes to show you that TTGL can be analyzed seriously. Every feat in the show has an explanation.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jun 3, 2008)

> Well for one it means that all those idiots who claim that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann has no limits is completely wrong. There are limits to Spiral Power, they're exists at such a high level that they're totally unquantifable in terms of numbers. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is the limit of Spiral Power. It cannot become stronger than that. The only reason they got away with creating Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann was because they where in an alternate Universe that could support such a thing existing in it. If Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann existed in the real universe its mere presence would destroy the entire Universe and would in effect cause the Spiral Nemesis to Happen. It is 1/8th the size of our Universe. While it may be true that Spiral Power grows more and more with each generation, using it that extent, or an even greater extent, would destroy the Universe in the process.



Wrong.

Gainax stated that TTGL can be created in the regular universe.


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## Endless Mike (Jun 3, 2008)

Since the UN is specifically excluded from scenario 3, I take it to mean he has it for scenarios 1 and 2. In that case, rape.

For scenario 3, Galactus still wins, by simply eating all of TTGL's spiral energy, like he did to Hyperstorm


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## Antitard (Jun 3, 2008)

Shuntensatsu said:


> Galactus wins all three as his powers are not supplied by jobbing and massive PIS.



lol.. Luffy beats Galactus 


If UN is in scenario 1 and 2 then TTGL loses, if not then TTGL takes all 3.


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## atom (Jun 3, 2008)

Ok, how about these.

Scenario 4: Average Galactus vs Full powered TTGL (No UN)
Scenario 5: Average TTGL vs Weakest Galactus.


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## Antitard (Jun 3, 2008)

atom said:


> Ok, how about these.
> 
> Scenario 4: Average Galactus vs Full powered TTGL (No UN)
> Scenario 5: Average TTGL vs Weakest Galactus.



WTF? Average TTGL is already universal... 

Look at what average Galactus calls the Universe

this

"Daddy" lol


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## strongarm85 (Jun 4, 2008)

Ryoma Nagare said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Gainax stated that TTGL can be created in the regular universe.



I'm sorry, but your wrong. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is 1/8th the size of our entire Universe. Its Gravity would be so great that every object in the Universe would be pulled towards it. Its mere Presence would cause Chaos the entire Universe and wouldn't have to do anything but just exists. But that also completely ignores the Spiral Nemesis. If too much Spiral power is used it destroys the entire Universe and I have to say Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is pretty close to that limit before the universe is destroyed and TTGL along with it.


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## atom (Jun 4, 2008)

Shouldn't/Doesn't Spiral Power reverse all of those effects anyway?


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## Dave (Jun 4, 2008)

Antitard said:


> WTF? Average TTGL is already universal...
> 
> Look at what average Galactus calls the Universe
> 
> ...



Well, that's nice and all, but more recent comics, recent as in not 40 years old, have them as equals.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Jun 4, 2008)

Antitard said:


> WTF? Average TTGL is already universal...
> 
> Look at what average Galactus calls the Universe
> 
> ...



Do you realize how strong Eternity is?


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## Antitard (Jun 4, 2008)

Dave said:


> Well, that's nice and all, but more recent comics, recent as in not 40 years old, have them as equals.



Haha? Proof of them being equal please, I await for your scan. If you mean Galactus at full power absorbing his ship then he is only equal to an aspect of eternity (1 universe). Galactus has to be at full power to stand against TTGL, but he would still lose since TTGL > universe



omg laser pew pew! said:


> Do you realize how strong Eternity is?



Yep, an aspect of eternity (singular) is only universal in power. Multi-eternity is different, but that scan I showed is only a singular aspect of eternity. Therefore, even Anti-spirals are above them for making universes, and being able to throw in big bangs.

Starved Galactus gets raped
Average Galactus gets raped
Fed Galactus gets raped
Pissed Galactus gets raped
Full Powered Galactus puts up a fight, but loses in the end after Simon throws in a speech on saving humanity.

Yep, overrate marvel cosmics here since it's the cool thing to do


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## strongarm85 (Jun 4, 2008)

Antitard said:


> Yep, an aspect of eternity (singular) is only universal in power. Multi-eternity is different, but that scan I showed is only a singular aspect of eternity. Therefore, even Anti-spirals are above them for making universes, and being able to throw in big bangs.



Not just a Universe, but a Universe thats much larger than than their Universe. That said Galactus has a few feats at full power that TTGL does not have. Probably the main was one is Cosmic Awareness on a Universal scale. He's basically omniscient at full power. Ad to that his ability to TK galaxy sized things, teleport galaxy sized objects, and his telepathy abilities he can pull out a win despite that fact that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann can accomplish some of the same things that Galactus can.


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## Endless Mike (Jun 4, 2008)

Or, like I said, he could just eat all of TTGL's energy.


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## Dave (Jun 4, 2008)

Antitard said:


> Haha? Proof of them being equal please, I await for your scan. If you mean Galactus at full power absorbing his ship then he is only equal to an aspect of eternity (1 universe). Galactus has to be at full power to stand against TTGL, but he would still lose since TTGL > universe



They have an equal status, your out of date scans of him saying Eternity is his father is very impressive...


And we were only talking about 616 Eternity, who cares about Multi Eternity...


And as EM said he could absorb TTGL energy like he did to Hyperstorm: 

And what protection does the pilot have from being mindraped?


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Jun 4, 2008)

Obligatory post-----

Galactus: I eat planet's for breakfast too fuel my existence. 

Viral: You eat planets? 

Simon/Viral/Yoko: Wherther you eat a planet or a universe it doesn't matter! 

Simon:Who the fuck do you think we are? My drills is one that will drill a hole threw the heavens! My drill is one that will drill a hole threw the universe! With this drill I will pierce threw anything! 

----Please continue debate-----


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jun 5, 2008)

What is the limit to the energy absorption capabilities of Galactus? And did he ever survive a Big Bang as Galactus?

General questions. I don't care much for this battle although TTGL looks way cooler to me.


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## Blue (Jun 5, 2008)

Endless Mike said:


> Or, like I said, he could just eat all of TTGL's energy.



That worked great for the Anti-Spirals.


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## strongarm85 (Jun 5, 2008)

I don't think eating energy is going to work either. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann has enough energy to casually make objects the size of Galaxies and not slow down at all.

Mind Rape is the Galactus' best chance at winning, and he can easily do that at full power.


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## atom (Jun 5, 2008)

strongarm85 said:


> I don't think eating energy is going to work either. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann has enough energy to casually make objects the size of Galaxies and not slow down at all.
> 
> Mind Rape is the Galactus' best chance at winning, and he can easily do that at full power.


TTGL and Co already broke out of that too.


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## The World (Jun 5, 2008)

atom said:


> TTGL and Co already broke out of that too.



ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWA.


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## Dave (Jun 5, 2008)

Charcan said:


> What is the limit to the energy absorption capabilities of Galactus? And did he ever survive a Big Bang as Galactus?
> 
> General questions. I don't care much for this battle although TTGL looks way cooler to me.




A Future version of Galactus was consuming the entire omniverse.


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## strongarm85 (Jun 5, 2008)

Not on the level the level of Galactus. He since he's basically omniscient at full power he could also simply teleport everyone in Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann out of their mech and into the cold void of space. Or he could use Telekensis to smash their skulls like grapes.

Of course is Galactus has the Ultimate Nullifier its a horrible stomp. The UN stops cosmics beings in their tracks.


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## strongarm85 (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave said:


> A Future version of Galactus was consuming the entire omniverse.



I am very certain thats was a "What If?" comic, and those are always not canon.


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## Dave (Jun 5, 2008)

strongarm85 said:


> I am very certain thats was a "What If?" comic, and those are always not canon.



I'm fairly certain it wasn't, and was the future version of 616 Galactus.


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## strongarm85 (Jun 5, 2008)

Alright then, theres a quick way to solve this. Where is your source?


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## Pintsize (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm not participating in the debate, but I'm just curious as to why Galactus could teleport the pilots out of their cockpits into space when the Anti Spiral could not.


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## Dave (Jun 5, 2008)

Fantastic 4 #340


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## omg laser pew pew! (Jun 5, 2008)

I would like to point out that G is probably written far weaker than his power-set would entail. Basically if you gave him all of the jobbing in the 616verse (Spidey, Cap, Wolverine) and then he'll be approaching what he should be capable


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## atom (Jun 5, 2008)

Even if its true, that galactus would only go into Scenario 1 anyways.


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## strongarm85 (Jun 5, 2008)

Pintsize said:


> I'm not participating in the debate, but I'm just curious as to why Galactus could teleport the pilots out of their cockpits into space when the Anti Spiral could not.



Because Galactus has shown the ability to teleport things other than himself. The Anti-Spirals never attempted a teleportation attack against the crew from TTGL. But its also not their style to try an attack like that. The Anti-Spirals prefer to use tactics that instill the most fear in their enemies because Spiral Power is partially based on will power and the quickest way to break will power is with despair. Its why the Anti-Spirals chose to fight on equal terms. So either they chose not to do it or they lack the ability to do it.

Galactus has teleported entire Galaxies. He's also basically omniscient at full power which means he'll be able to pinpoint everything about those inside of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann in so much detail that if he wanted he could create exact duplicates of all of them down to the tiniest cell and complete with all their brain synapses at memories. Omniscience is a powerful thing, and its main reason why a full powered Galactus would win.


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## atom (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm pretty sure "Spiral Power" would keep them in TTGL. Omniscience only applies to the verse you were created in right? I doubt a teleportation would work considering the "pilots" "tanked" a big bang.


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## Blue (Jun 5, 2008)

strongarm85 said:


> Because Galactus has shown the ability to teleport things other than himself. The Anti-Spirals never attempted a teleportation attack against the crew from TTGL. But its also not their style to try an attack like that. The Anti-Spirals prefer to use tactics that instill the most fear in their enemies because Spiral Power is partially based on will power and the quickest way to break will power is with despair. Its why the Anti-Spirals chose to fight on equal terms. So either they chose not to do it or they lack the ability to do it.


They tried to go back in time and wipe out the crew before they started, dude. If they'd do that, they'd space the Gurren-Dan. Teleportation ain't gonna work.

In fact, the last few episodes of TTGL are pretty much a checklist of every imaginable attack failing.

Up to and including creation-level energies. As much as an actual big bang? Probably not. But enough to cause vacuum collapse anyway,


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## strongarm85 (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, its basically omniscience, its actually Cosmic Awareness on a Universal Scale. So its not exactly the same thing since it only applies to area around him most of the time. Its just that at full power he becomes aware at a Universal Scale. How aware? Well aware enough to pull off the exact feat I just mentioned.


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## strongarm85 (Jun 5, 2008)

Blue said:


> They tried to go back in time and wipe out the crew before they started, dude. If they'd do that, they'd space the Gurren-Dan. Teleportation ain't gonna work.
> 
> In fact, the last few episodes of TTGL are pretty much a checklist of every imaginable attack failing.
> 
> Up to and including creation-level energies. As much as an actual big bang? Probably not. But enough to cause vacuum collapse anyway,



TTGL would still fail against the Ultimate Nullifier, no matter what.



> The Ultimate Nullifier has been described as "the universe's most devastating weapon."[2]. As such, the Ultimate Nullifier has the ability to completely and utterly eliminate any target the wielder chooses (through violation of the law of conservation of mass), and—if the wielder's mind isn't powerful enough—the wielder himself. In the hands of a being with an extremely powerful intellect, such as Galactus, the Ultimate Nullifier can destroy entire time-lines from beginning to end and instantly nullify (and, paradoxically, recreate) a multiverse.[3] While its origins are ancient and were previously unknown, it has been revealed that the Ultimate Nullifier is actually an aspect of Galactus.[4]
> 
> The Ultimate Nullifier is generally kept within Galactus' Worldship, Taa II, though at times Galactus has been known to carry it aboard his spherical starship. In the rare instances that the Nullifier gets stolen or kept in other locales, such as the Fantastic Four's headquarters, the Nullifier inevitably returns to Galactus' possession, usually with no explanation. The reason behind this inconsistency may have been revealed in the Abraxas saga. In it, Galactus demonstrates his ability to effortlessly recall the Nullifier to himself at will[5], even from the grasp of Abraxas himself, the universal embodiment of destruction.



Source:


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## Id (Jun 5, 2008)

atom said:


> Oh really? What has Galactus done that puts him over TTGL. Some scans would be helpful



Sure - Scans are from *Silver Surfer Judgment.*

The clash of powers being released, is effecting entire galaxies. Mephisto thinks he has won, but it turns out that Galactus has begun to absorb his entire dimension. 




*Annihilation - Silver Surfer 03*
Quick note, the whole Galactus>Celestial>Cube beings was recently enforced. He deems the Proemial Gods more of threat then the Beyonders essence, since Aegis and Tenebrous are closer to his power level.


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## atom (Jun 5, 2008)

Impressive. Though, (From what I know about Galactus). There is no way that those are "average" showings...


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## strongarm85 (Jun 5, 2008)

Its hard to define an "average" Galactus because most of the time he shows up he's in a weakened state.


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## Id (Jun 5, 2008)

*Fantastic Four v1 Annual #026*
This goes to show, that the Cosmic Cube beings acknowledge vast inferiority, to higher cosmic beings. These Cube beings can destroy, an entire universe.
[/URL]

*X-Men Forever #6.*
And as it is known, for avid comic fans of marvels cosmics.
Celestials are created to serve these cosmic forces.


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## Id (Jun 5, 2008)

atom said:


> Impressive. Though, (From what I know about Galactus). There is no way that those are "average" showings...



Well you are out of luck, because this  match takes place at his vary strongest.
But here are recent scans, of Galactus at a vary weak stage. 3 star systems are obliterated. 

*
Annihilation #6*


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## Blue (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, the last thing to consider is that TTGL warps reality by creating a universe that it can warp reality in - "Super Spiral Space". So Galactus is fighting in a universe where TTGL defines... everything. 

Also... three star systems?
TTGL trips over a galaxy and wipes out a few hundred billion of them. Granted that's weak Galactus, but that's not even a feat.


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## Id (Jun 5, 2008)

Blue said:


> Well, the last thing to consider is that TTGL warps reality by creating a universe that it can warp reality in - "Super Spiral Space". So Galactus is fighting in a universe where TTGL defines... everything.




Really all this talk about TTGL and its universal manipulating powers (which aren?t even TTGL feats IRRC), are not that impressive on a full scale Galacatus. A single Cube being can lay waste to entire universe, shape and remodel it as he pleases. And still it is no where near the powerful as Galactus. Look at the match with Mephisto that I posted. Mephisto is the undoubted ruler of his realm, capable of shaping, his dimension to what ever he pleases. That meant nothing to Galactus, and proceeded to drain its energy. The same would  occur with TTGL and his attempted to shape the Dimension. 



Blue said:


> Also... three star systems?
> TTGL trips over a galaxy and wipes out a few hundred billion of them. Granted that's weak Galactus, but that's not even a feat.


The Scan is from Annihilation #4. It goes to show just how weak, Galactus was at the moment. 


Like it was mentioned earlier, Galactus power level is measured by how much energy he has. That is why he needs to prepare for his encounter with the Pre Retconed Beyonder and the Promeial Gods. So its interesting to see, that even at one of his weakest points, he can still shoot down 3 solar systems in one blast. While comparing him in decent shape, he was indirectly effecting entire Galaxies.


It is speculated what the riddle is behind Galactus actions. He consumes planets, and takes away life force, but  in the end it will give it back infinitely times more.  One answer was given  to this riddle, in ?The Last Galactus Story.? Galactus pledged a full scale war, against a rouge Watcher, that lay waste and devastated the entire universe. In the end Galacuts unleashes its energies, which turns out to be the actual big bang (Note: not an attack that reassembles one).


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