# Emperor Palpatine vs Lord Freeza



## Lord Raizen (Apr 27, 2010)

Scenario 1-The Galactic Empire vs Freeza's Empire.

The two overlords deploy all of thier military forces and resources to defeat the other as soon as possible. 

Palpatine does not have the Jedi Order at his disposal, but any of his other servents(Dooku, Greivous, other Sith associates etc.) are fair game. 

Freeza and Palpatine possess all of thier shown capabilities but the two of them cannot fight each other directly until one or both of thier empires is all but defeated.

How does this play out and who wins this Galactic game of chess?


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## Shoddragon (Apr 27, 2010)

Lord Raizen said:


> Scenario 1-The Galactic Empire vs Freeza's Empire.
> 
> The two overlords deploy all of thier military forces and resources to defeat the other as soon as possible.
> 
> ...



palpatine mindfucks freeza into kill all of his minions then himself?


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## Hellspawn28 (Apr 27, 2010)

Won't he bitlz him before he can try to mindrape him?


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## Omnirix (Apr 27, 2010)

^Pretty much
Palpatine: All your base are belong to me. 
Freeza: X(



Hellspawn28 said:


> Won't he bitlz him before he can try to mindrape him?


The OP didn't specify the distance between them and they're not allowed to engage in direct combat with one another. Doesn't matter Palpatine mindrape.


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 27, 2010)

One planet buster and his lackeys vs the Death Star, Galaxy Gun, Sun Crusher, etc. Yup


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## Level7N00b (Apr 27, 2010)

The only ones of note in Freeza's army is:

Freeza
Ginyu
Recoome
Jeice
Burter
Guldo
Zarbon
Dodoria
Cui

Anyone else is fodder.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 27, 2010)

can't palpatine mindfuck millions, pretty much allowing him to solo?


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## Lord Raizen (Apr 27, 2010)

@Shoddragon-Freeza has high level telepathy in his own right though it may not be up to snuff. I dont think he'd be so easily mindraped.

@Hellspawn-Possibly. Combat wise Freeza has the speed advantage but Palpatine does have Relativistic reaction speeds.

But all that aside, lets focus on how thier empires match up and how the war would play out. They cant fight each other until everything and everyone else is in shambles. 

And in respects to that notion, we'll also say that they cannot aid thier forces directly either. At least not combat wise.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 27, 2010)

Lord Raizen said:


> @Shoddragon-Freeza has *high level *telepathy in his own right.
> 
> @Hellspawn-Possibly. Combat wise Freeza has the speed advantage but Palpatine does have Relativistic reaction speeds.
> 
> ...



absolutely NOTHING compared to palpatine.


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 27, 2010)

Telepathy =/= Telekinesis


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 27, 2010)

Palpatine lauches some Force Storms and mindrapes Freeza himself while sending out the sun crusher to start blowing up star systems. 

As it stands Freeza's empire gets horribly raped


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## Lord Raizen (Apr 27, 2010)

@Shoddragon-None the less, He cant make a move in the begining.


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## Level7N00b (Apr 27, 2010)

Sounds like mind rape is going to be a major factor in this fight? . Perhaps it should be removed to make things slightly more fair to Freeza's side.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

Palpatine mindfucks everyone.

The Deathstar blows everything up.

Star Destroyers destroy everything in sight.

Sun Crushers...crush them.

Etc, etc, etc.

Hell, can't Palpatine take over other people's bodies once he dies??


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 27, 2010)

Lord Raizen said:


> @Shoddragon-None the less, He cant make a move in the begining.



He doesn't need to move, Palpatine once mindwiped an entire fucking to planet to hide the Super Star Destoyer he placed there.

he can send his Force Storms across the entire galaxy while he's on the completely opposite side.

The Sun Crusher comes equipped with a hyperdrive and indestructible armor that will shrug off everything that Freeza or his forces throw at it. it then lobs a missile into the sun making it go supernova and destroying the entire solar system.

Freeza is massivly outclassed and outgunned here


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 27, 2010)

What was Freeza's space armaments like anyway?  Obviously Freeza's ground forces dominate, but that's not really going to matter if the planet they're fighting on gets bombarded from orbit.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

_Or_ Darth Vader just force chokes Freeza and his lackies from across the Galaxy. And Darth Vader is much weaker than Palpatine....


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Hell, can't Palpatine take over other people's bodies once he dies??



Only works if one's will is stronger than the person that they are trying to defeat in order to take over their body. Otherwise, they go straight to Dark Side Hell (Chaos).


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## Lord Raizen (Apr 27, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> Palpatine lauches some Force Storms and mindrapes Freeza himself



Niether of them can act, safe to give orders. They cannot fight until one or both of thier empires/armies has been destroyed.



Emperor Joker said:


> while sending out the sun crusher to start blowing up star systems.
> 
> As it stands Freeza's empire gets horribly raped



What does blowing up star systems do to Freeza's army? Freeza has soldiers and resources spread across a galaxy. Blowing up a star or a few planets does account for much damage. He probobly does that himself when he's having bad mornings.

Unless the Sun crusher is tactically placed or can be targeted at individuals it isnt much help.

Is it carried aboard a ship or is it in league with the Death Star as far as size and transportation go?

Because either way, Freeza can send Zarbon or any elite out into space to blow it up.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 27, 2010)

Lord Raizen said:


> Niether of them can act, safe to give orders. They cannot fight until one or both of thier empires/armies has been destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No the Sun Crusher while only the size of a Star fighter comes equipped with full powered hyperdrive meaning it's self dependent and doesn't need a Destroyer to carry it around. and it's indestructible as well, and considering Freeza doesn't have a block hole at his disposal his forces aren;t doing jack shit to it.

Even without it's supernova missiles the Crusher managed to destroy a Star Destoyer by simple just running straight through it.

The missile themselves make the sun go supernova and then they blow up the entire solar system as well.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

Lord Raizen said:


> Niether of them can act, safe to give orders. They cannot fight until one or both of thier empires/armies has been destroyed.


Darth Vader Forces chokes the entire enemy army from across the galaxy.



Lord Raizen said:


> What does blowing up star systems do to Freeza's army? Freeza has soldiers and resources spread across a galaxy.


Does the fact that the Empire have dozens of these and they shit on everything Frieza has, including himself, mean anything to you.



Lord Raizen said:


> Blowing up a star or a few planets does account for much damage. He probobly does that himself when he's having bad mornings.


Star System Buster>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Everything in DBZ.....



Lord Raizen said:


> Is it carried aboard a ship or is it in league with the Death Star as far as size and transportation go?


It's a Death Star....but about the size of a ship.



Lord Raizen said:


> Because either way, Freeza can send Zarbon or any elite out into space to blow it up.


And they get destroyed from several miles away.



Darth Nihilus said:


> Only works if one's will is stronger than the person that they are trying to defeat in order to take over their body. Otherwise, they go straight to Dark Side Hell (Chaos).


So, in the impossible chance that he gets killed, can't he just take over Freeza. And then take over Goku when he kills Freeza?

Don't ships in SW move and fight close to light speed as well?


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Darth Vader Forces chokes the entire enemy army from across the galaxy.
> 
> 
> *Does the fact that the Empire have dozens of these and they shit on everything Frieza has, including himself, mean anything to you*.
> ...



The empire only had one Sun Crusher at thier disposal as only one was ever made.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> The empire only had one Sun Crusher at thier disposal as only one was ever made.



Am I thinking of another ship then? I remember that there was a series of very powerful ships that the Empire actually had a few of.

My bad for my mistake then.


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> So, in the impossible chance that he gets killed, can't he just take over Freeza. And then take over Goku when he kills Freeza?
> 
> Don't ships in SW move and fight close to light speed as well?



In the chance that his body is destroyed, he can try to take over Freeza. As to whether he will succeed or not depends on whose will is stronger. Palp's or Freeza's. Whoever loses gets dumped into DSH.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Am I thinking of another ship then? I remember that there was a series of very powerful ships that the Empire actually had a few of.



You're probably thinking of the World Devestators, something the Reborn Palpatine used to wreck planets without completely destroying them...or just the Star Destroyers in general


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## Shoddragon (Apr 27, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> You're probably thinking of the World Devestators, something the Reborn Palpatine used to wreck planets without completely destroying them...or just the Star Destroyers in general



I remember that from the first rogue squadron game. don't they just suck up most of a planet's resources and devastate the worlds ( which is why they are called world devastators?)?


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> You're probably thinking of the World Devestators, something the Reborn Palpatine used to wreck planets without completely destroying them...or just the Star Destroyers in general


Might be the first ones. Definitely not the Star Destroyers.



Darth Nihilus said:


> In the chance that his body is destroyed, he can try to take over Freeza. As to whether he will succeed or not depends on whose will is stronger. Palp's or Freeza's. Whoever loses gets dumped into DSH.


I'm pretty sure that Freeza wouldn't get that far. But, just making sure. Although, I'm betting Palp's will is greater than Freeza's....


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## Raigen (Apr 27, 2010)

Even the weakest members of Freeza's empire are around Raditz level, which means an army of mountain-chain busters and moon-busters. Freeza's empire also includes his father, King Cold. Also, does this include when the Saiyans were still loyal to Freeza or after he betrayed them and nuked their planet?

Oh and Guldo, despite being complete fail, can freeze time. Plus there's another DBZ movie they did, not in english yet, that shows guys from Freeza's other squads, similar to the Ginyu Force. Apparently they went around after Freeza died and started trying to take over planets on their own, and according to Vegeta's little brother (yes, for some reason he had a brother), they'd become as strong as Freeza. What was even dumber (yes, it got dumber), the two guys (who kinda looked like Dodoria, only one spike each and one was red, the other was blue) could merge together into a giant purple guy. Guess keeping with the theme that all of Freeza's special forces guys're gay.


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## HeOf7 (Apr 27, 2010)

God the Star-wars wank is unbelievable


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## Shoddragon (Apr 27, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Even the weakest members of Freeza's empire are around Raditz level, which means an army of mountain-chain busters and moon-busters. Freeza's empire also includes his father, King Cold. Also, does this include when the Saiyans were still loyal to Freeza or after he betrayed them and nuked their planet?
> 
> Oh and Guldo, despite being complete fail, can freeze time. Plus there's another DBZ movie they did, not in english yet, that shows guys from Freeza's other squads, similar to the Ginyu Force. Apparently they went around after Freeza died and started trying to take over planets on their own, and according to Vegeta's little brother (yes, for some reason he had a brother), they'd become as strong as Freeza. What was even dumber (yes, it got dumber), the two guys (who kinda looked like Dodoria, only one spike each and one was red, the other was blue) could merge together into a giant purple guy. Guess keeping with the theme that all of Freeza's special forces guys're gay.



that special aired like years ago. it was with those little fat thingies that fused in the end  and goten and trunks were wtfpwning them the whole time. I thought it WAS in english?


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## Hellspawn28 (Apr 27, 2010)

> Palpatine does have Relativistic reaction speeds.



I don't keep up with Star Wars then I used too but since when? Also won't Freeza just use the Death Ball on him too?


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Even the weakest members of Freeza's empire are around Raditz level, which means an army of mountain-chain busters and moon-busters.


Mountain busters? You mean the attack on the level that Star Destroyers casually tank large volleys of with no scratch to their shields? Yeah, that would be _so_ effective.



HeOf7 said:


> God the Star-wars wank is unbelievable


It's not wank. _Nobody_ in Feeza's empire could ever kill Palpatine..because he'd just kill them and take over their bodies. And he'd do it to every one there time, after time, after time.


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 27, 2010)

I see that Horrible Poster #3 has arrived


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> It's not wank. _Nobody_ in Feeza's empire could ever kill Palpatine..because he'd just kill them and take over their bodies. And he'd do it to every one there time, after time, after time.



This is pending on whose will is stronger. Imagine how I felt when Bane was out-willed by his own apprentice


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> This is pending on whose will is stronger. Imagine how I felt when Bane was out-willed by his own apprentice



Then again, Freeza nor his lackiess hasn't shown anything much on the level of some of the people on SW.

Do you have any SW EU you could hook me up with?


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 27, 2010)

Darth Bane Trilogy. Death Star, Rise of Darth Vader, etc


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Darth Bane Trilogy. Death Star, Rise of Darth Vader, etc



Any and all you could supply would be nice. Mind sending it to me?


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## HeOf7 (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Mountain busters? You mean the attack on the level that Star Destroyers casually tank large volleys of with no scratch to their shields? Yeah, that would be _so_ effective.
> 
> 
> It's not wank. _Nobody_ in Feeza's empire could ever kill Palpatine..because he'd just kill them and take over their bodies. And he'd do it to every one there time, after time, after time.




I thought we were going by SW canon not fan-fics written by people who Jack it to Darth fages on an hourly bases


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## Raigen (Apr 27, 2010)

> that special aired like years ago. it was with those little fat thingies that fused in the end and goten and trunks were wtfpwning them the whole time. I thought it WAS in english?



English subtitled at least, not dubbed. And yeah, Goten and Trunks were pwning them.



> Mountain busters? You mean the attack on the level that Star Destroyers casually tank large volleys of with no scratch to their shields? Yeah, that would be so effective.



Not mountain-busters, mountain-*chain* busters and *moon*-busters and above. Piccolo nuked the moon and he was still weaker than Raditz (he did it like the day after fighting Raditz). Freeza has untold millions, if not billions or more of these guys at his command, seeing as how his empire did span over an untold number of worlds in the Northern Galaxy. Plus there were stronger figures like Qui who was as strong as Vegeta was in Saiyan Saga, and Dodoria and Zarbon who were stronger than that (Dodoria at 20k, Zarbon at 22k and higher when transformed). Then Ginyu Force Members ranging from 20-60k with Ginyu himself at 120k. And as the movie suggests there are other teams under Freeza's command on par with the Ginyu Force.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 27, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Darth Bane Trilogy. Death Star, Rise of Darth Vader, etc



Thrawn Trilogy

can't forget the classics


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

HeOf7 said:


> I thought we were going by SW canon not fan-fics written by people who Jack it to Darth fages on an hourly bases



SW EU _is_ canon you dimwit, Lucas has said so himself. EU is canon unless Lucas specifically says otherwise or it contradicts his stuff. Barely any of EU, if any at all, does that.


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## HeOf7 (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> SW EU _is_ canon you dimwit, Lucas has said so himself. EU is canon unless Lucas specifically says otherwise or it contradicts his stuff. Barely any of EU, if any at all, does that.



No you see the Jedi/Sith are candy-asses in the moves so them Being hard-asses in the fan-fics contradict the movies.


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## lucky (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Darth Vader Forces chokes the entire enemy army from across the galaxy.



whoa whoa whoa when did darth vader ever do anything at that level?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> SW EU _is_ canon you dimwit, Lucas has said so himself. EU is canon unless Lucas specifically says otherwise or it contradicts his stuff. Barely any of EU, if any at all, does that.



I wonder if some of the old Marvel SW stuff is still canon


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

HeOf7 said:


> No you see the Jedi/Sith are candy-asses in the moves so them Being hard-asses in the fan-fics contradict the movies.


George Lucas>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Your Bullshit



lucky said:


> whoa whoa whoa when did darth vader ever do anything at that level?


EU Vader, IIRC.



Crimson Dragoon said:


> I wonder if some of the old Marvel SW stuff is still canon


Oh god...MARVEL did SW once? The Brokenness that must have been....


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## Es (Apr 27, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I wonder if some of the old Marvel SW stuff is still canon



Actually some of the events in there are sometimes mentioned in sourcebooks, so it's kinda cannon so as long as it doesn't contradict anything, but I think only one story was proven as  complety non cannon since it contradicted other sources. Also paul don't buy into heof7's bullshit, he has proven repeatedly that he doesn't know anything about the Star Wars Universe.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Oh god...MARVEL did SW once? The Brokenness that must have been....



There was one weapon there that could destroy the universe via some chain-reaction method in one of the stories, but it was never proven


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> There was one weapon there that could destroy the universe via some chain-reaction method in one of the stories, but it was never proven



Leave it to MARVEL..... The more I hear about SW, the more and more broken it becomes....


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## Es (Apr 27, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> There was one weapon there that could destroy the universe via some chain-reaction method in one of the stories, but it was never proven



Man all this talk of the EU brings me back....


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

No fair... Somebody supply Paul with SW EU


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## HeOf7 (Apr 27, 2010)

Gundam Guy said:


> Actually some of the events in there are sometimes mentioned in sourcebooks, so it's kinda cannon so as long as it doesn't contradict anything, but I think only one story was proven as  complety non cannon since it contradicted other sources. Also paul don't buy into heof7's bullshit, he has proven repeatedly that *he doesn't know anything about the Star Wars Universe*.




No shit I don?t, but your yet to post any scans of jedi/shith doing half the shit u claim they can. Give me proof if you want me to stow it.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 27, 2010)

can't forget the Omega Frost device also


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## Es (Apr 27, 2010)

HeOf7 said:


> No shit I don’t, but your yet to post any scans of jedi/shith doing half the shit u claim they can. Give me proof if you want me to stow it.



I'll start doing that as soon as you use correct spelling and stop trolling.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 27, 2010)

HeOf7 said:


> No shit I don?t, but your yet to post any scans of jedi/shith doing half the shit u claim they can. Give me proof if you want me to stow it.



you shouldn't come into a thread and try to post for a side without knowing shit about the other side.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> can't forget the Omega Frost device also



Omega-_what_?


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## HeOf7 (Apr 27, 2010)

Gundam Guy said:


> I'll start doing that as soon as you use correct spelling.



Well sooorry spelling Nazi


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## Soledad Eterna (Apr 27, 2010)

Freezer's ground forces stomp Sidius' troops, then the ships from the empire kills Freezer in a matter of seconds. Really Toriyama never expanded on Freeza's empire so we don't know how well it was technologically and what kind of ships it had.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Omega-_what_?


This. Is. The. Game narration telling you that the upgrade grants you light-speed movement. Either. Accept it. Or, don't.


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## Es (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Omega-_what_?



It was a device that could create absolute Zero, the Tagge family made it so they could destroy the rebel fleet.


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## Diskyr (Apr 27, 2010)

The differences between technology are significant, especially when you consider the fact that the Galactic Empire has shown far more (albeit superior) technology than Freeza's Empire.


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## HeOf7 (Apr 27, 2010)

Shoddragon said:


> you shouldn't come into a thread and try to post for a side without knowing shit about the other side.



Well gee I didn?t know Palpatine got a major power boost then lost it in between the moves.


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## HeOf7 (Apr 27, 2010)

Diskyr said:


> The differences between technology are significant, especially when you consider the fact that the Galactic Empire has shown far more (albeit superior) technology than Freeza's Empire.



Yeah but Freeza can blow up a planet wile but necked  he doesn’t really need better technology to win.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> This. Is. The. Game narration telling you that the upgrade grants you light-speed movement. Either. Accept it. Or, don't.





Gundam Guy said:


> It was a device that could create absolute Zero, the Tagge family made it so they could destroy the rebel fleet.



I am stuck somewhere between horror, amasement, disbelief, and want to read. Someone hook me up!!!


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## Es (Apr 27, 2010)

HeOf7 said:


> Yeah but Freeza can blow up a planet wile but-necked  he doesn’t really need better technology to win.



The Empire can cause Supernovas with the Sun Crusher, which can wipe out entire Solar Systems and Solar Systems >>> one Planet.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

HeOf7 said:


> Well gee I didn’t know Palpatine got a major power boost then lost it in between the moves.


Stop complaining for your own incompetence.


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## Es (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> I am stuck somewhere between horror, amasement, disbelief, and want to read. Someone hook me up!!!



I wish I could man, I got all the Marvel Star Wars collections.


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## HeOf7 (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Stop complaining for your own incompetence.



Gee someone?s getting a bit nasty, maybe you should sit in the corner and calm down a little bit.


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## Shock Therapy (Apr 27, 2010)

HeOf7 said:


> Gee someone?s getting a bit nasty, maybe you should sit in the corner and calm down a little bit.



why are you crying? take it like a man.


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## Es (Apr 27, 2010)

HeOf7 said:


> Gee someone’s getting a bit nasty, maybe you should sit in the corner and calm down a little bit.



You're the only one here whose trolling.


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## HeOf7 (Apr 27, 2010)

rawrawraw said:


> why are you crying? take it like a man.



I know your upset Rawraw but sometimes you have to suck it up that’s just part of growing up.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 27, 2010)

Gundam Guy said:


> I wish I could man, I got all the Marvel Star Wars collections.



SON OF A BITCH!! GET A SCANNER!! NAO!!!!


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## HeOf7 (Apr 27, 2010)

Gundam Guy said:


> You're the only one here whose trolling.


I?m just trying to have a discussion. Just because I don?t agree with you doesn?t mean I?m trolling


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## Es (Apr 27, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> SON OF A BITCH!! GET A SCANNER!! NAO!!!!



It's really difficult to scan because it's in graphic novel format 


HeOf7 said:


> I’m just trying to have a discussion. Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean I’m trolling



No, disagreeing about something you don't know shit about and not having anything to back it up with is trolling.


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## Fang (Apr 27, 2010)

Lord Raizen said:


> @Shoddragon-Freeza has high level telepathy in his own right though it may not be up to snuff. I dont think he'd be so easily mindraped.



When did Freeza show telepathy again?


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## HeOf7 (Apr 27, 2010)

Gundam Guy said:


> No, disagreeing about something you don't know shit about and not having anything to back it up is trolling.






Ok fine just show me one scan of the SW characters doing something remotely as impressive as you’ve claimed they can.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Apr 27, 2010)

I like how the Sun Crusher is always used for the Empire despite the fact the Empire never used it.
Plus, as far as I'm aware, the people who actually run the Empire didn't know it existed.


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## Fang (Apr 27, 2010)

Also willpower means jackshit, assuming Freeza wipes out Palpatine/Sidious body just means he'll instantaneously move his soul into Freeza's own. And no amount of willpower is going to help against a high level telepath who can destroy your soul at that.


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## Shock Therapy (Apr 27, 2010)

EU Palp, second only to Markos motherfucking Ragnos as a Sith. Badass in every way.


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## HeOf7 (Apr 27, 2010)

rawrawraw said:


> EU Palp, second only to Markos motherfucking Ragnos as a Sith. Badass in every way.


You’re obviously not referring to  G-canon


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## Narcissus (Apr 27, 2010)

Lord Raizen said:


> Freeza has high level telepathy in his own right though it may not be up to snuff. I dont think he'd be so easily mindraped.



Uh, no he doesn't. Frieza has telekenesis, not telepathy, and it's not even that potent.

He has no resistence to mental assault.


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## Diskyr (Apr 27, 2010)

The Galactic Empire wouldn't even have to deploy such massive numbers of units against Freeza's empire, especially when you have the Sun Crusher


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## Diskyr (Apr 27, 2010)

HeOf7 said:


> Yeah but Freeza can blow up a planet wile but necked  he doesn?t really need better technology to win.



Whats stopping the Galactic Empire from deploying thousands of fighters and ships to stop Frieza? Even if Freeza does somehow to destroy them all, he will be obliterated by the Sun Crusher by the time he does so


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## OutlawJohn (Apr 27, 2010)

May you should limit Palpatine's mental mindfucking powers, or they stand no chance.


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## HeOf7 (Apr 27, 2010)

Diskyr said:


> Whats stopping the Galactic Empire from deploying thousands of fighters and ships to stop Frieza? Even if Freeza does somehow to destroy them all, he will be obliterated by the Sun Crusher by the time he does so



And *Palpatine* has this?


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## Fang (Apr 27, 2010)

why is anyone still even remotely responding or paying attention to this guy?


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## MichaelUN89 (Apr 27, 2010)

Well some people was asking for scans






This kind of stuff exists in the *canon* expanded universe of SW and stuff like this kills frieza.


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## Lord Raizen (Apr 28, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Palpatine mindfucks everyone.
> The Deathstar blows everything up.
> Star Destroyers destroy everything in sight.
> Sun Crushers...crush them.



Your listing off the general capabilities of the Empire's forces rather than comparing and reasoning as to how the battles would go about.

As in the Death Star cant simply "Blow everything up" and the Star destroyers, even in large numbers wont be "destroying everything in sight". No matter how obvious you believe the answers may be, or how sure of your self you are, this is still poor debating and you arent technically correct. 

A significant number of Freeza's men will have the durability and power to deal with any number of Star destroyers. And the Death Star can and would be destroyed. It wouldnt take more than a multi-city busting attack to deal with it. It may be thousends of meters of layered metal but DBZ has been mountain busting since Roshi, who leagues below King Piccolo, who is a league below post 23rd budakai fighters who all pale in comparison to even Raditz, one of Freeza's rank fighters at the time. His forces are littered with Mountain-range/country busting fighters. 




Emperor Joker said:


> He doesn't need to move, Palpatine once mindwiped an entire fucking to planet to hide the Super Star Destoyer he placed there.
> 
> he can send his Force Storms across the entire galaxy while he's on the completely opposite side.
> 
> ...



Freeza may not possess the technological advantage but all he needs is transportaion and Zarbon alone can wipe out an entire fleet. What's the evidence that this supposedly un-used Sun crusher can tank any attack from Frieza or his forces?



paulatreides0 said:


> _Or_ Darth Vader just force chokes Freeza and his lackies from across the Galaxy. And Darth Vader is much weaker than Palpatine....



Has Vadar shown to force choke millions of people at once? And even if he could what suggests that he can perform such an act on such highly powerful individuals. Fighters with dozens of warriors multi city to country busting+ durability and enough power to wipe planetoids with ease? Vadar isnt force choking Freeza from across a galaxy. 



Emperor Joker said:


> No the Sun Crusher while only the size of a Star fighter comes equipped with full powered hyperdrive meaning it's self dependent and doesn't need a Destroyer to carry it around. and it's indestructible as well, and considering Freeza doesn't have a block hole at his disposal his forces aren;t doing jack shit to it.
> 
> Even without it's supernova missiles the Crusher managed to destroy a Star Destoyer by simple just running straight through it.
> 
> The missile themselves make the sun go supernova and then they blow up the entire solar system as well.



What's it shown to be indestructible against?

So, it destroyed a Star destroyer by running through it. If something busts through a piece of technology, generally it's going to break/exlplode. What deos that tell us in respects to this thread? 

You dont realize how much you are overinflating the Galactic empire's capabilities. At the very least you arent taking into consideration, the capabilities of Freeza's men or what it would take to kill all of them, when they are in groups all across Freeza's empire trying just as hard to kill Palpatine's forces.



paulatreides0 said:


> So, in the impossible chance that he gets killed, can't he just take over Freeza. And then take over Goku when he kills Freeza?
> 
> Don't ships in SW move and fight close to light speed as well?



Goku isnt in this thread, so he's no use Palpatine. And Freeza's ships, ranging from his own flagships to the thousends of saiyan pods he's aquired, also move at FTL speeds. Typically any fictional ship is when the need to be able cross significant portions of a galaxy in days. 

Has Papatine's mindraping shown the power to dominate beings on the level of Freeza and his top fighers? If not then it's pointless.

Mind whiping a planet is quite a feat, but a planet full of average, powerless epectators isnt comparable to whiping dozens to hundreds of high endurance, highly powerful, planatoid busting fighters.

And Palpatine cannot use his power's until his forces have defeated Freeza's army first, which based on what has been said, I dont see as being very probabe as many here are stating.

Many have been simply listing off, the major capabilites of Palpatine and his military technology without suggesting just how his, fleets will survive without being destroyed themselves and who exactly on his side is going to take care of each of Freeza's men? Because he cannot do it himself.

@TWF-Freeza can kill with a glance, launch hundreds of meters of solid rock, and completely obliderate fighers with multi-city level to country level power/durability all with mind. 

And as was pointed out, Freeza's men include 

The Ginyu force.

5-casual multi mountain chain to multi continent busters with one possessing time stopping abilities which can be used multiple times in succession and another possessing body possesion.

Then there is Zarbon and Dodoria, both of whom are stronger the Saiyan Saga Vegeta, and several times stronger than Nappa, who in turn was several times stronger than Raditz.

In fact, all of the saiyan's were looked upon as inferior, disposable henchman. Zarbon and Dodoria mocked them often along with Freeza. And considering he ran a galaxy-wide empire Freeza very likely has a great many squads of elite fighters in the league of his shown henchman to enforce his rule over the dozens of AUs worth of space.

With that considered, the Empire may actually need the Jedi Order to make up for numbers.

All things considered, I think that Freeza's empire takes this. Though when it comes down to Freeza vs Palpatine themselves it could go either way.


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Apr 28, 2010)

Apparently Sun crushers can tank planetary+ level attacks and even resist the shock of a supernova (if it is not close to the explosion)


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## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

Lord Raizen said:


> @TWF-Freeza can kill with a glance, launch hundreds of meters of solid rock, and completely obliderate fighers with multi-city level to country level power/durability all with mind.



None of this has absolutely in any way shape or form to do with telepathy, at all whatsoever.



> All things considered, I think that Freeza's empire takes this. Though when it comes down to *Freeza vs Palpatine themselves it could go either way.*



No, it wouldn't. And all of those Star Destroyers can bombard any planet or space pod or ship they travel in from across an entire star system's diameter.


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## Lord Raizen (Apr 28, 2010)

MichaelUN89 said:


> stuff like this kills frieza.



Several things need to be determined if this is to be proven. 

If the above was accomplished by some form of technology then we at least need to know its range, durability, speed, and full dustructive capacity to descern weather it's likely that it would destroy Freeza in this situation.

Also, Freeza in his first form is planet level, and he's hundreds of times more powerful in his Maximum powered fourth form. 

Simply because that planet was destroyed does not make it probable that it would work on Freeza, nor would does it make it probable that it would get the chance to.




TWF said:


> None of this has absolutely in any way shape or form to do with telepathy, at all whatsoever.



Now that I think about it, I see that you are correct. 

However, I still hold true that Palpatine's stated feats of telepathy arent enough to prove that he could off Freeza or his higher level fighters, especially not from the suggested differences. Even if he does have planet wide mind whiping feats. That merely showcases the vast range not the power of his technique.




TWF said:


> No, it wouldn't. And all of those Star Destroyers can bombard any planet or space pod or ship they travel in from across an entire star system's diameter.



The empires average Star Destroyer ships have solar system wide range? When was this shown exactly?


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## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

Lord Raizen said:


> Also, Freeza in his first form is planet level, and he's hundreds of times more powerful in his Maximum powered fourth form.



First form is not planet level or even close.



> However, I still hold true that Palpatine's stated feats of telepathy arent enough to prove that he could off Freeza or his higher level fighters, especially not from the suggested differences. Even if he does have planet wide mind whiping feats. That merely showcases the vast range not the power of his technique.



Palpatine has psyhically drained the entire population of Byss, a planet that holds more than 18.4 billion people and mind-wiped several millions into forgetting about the the burial of his private Super-Class Star Destroyer and clouded the long-range precognition and clairvoyance abilities of the entire Jedi Order for decades.

Freeza has no chance in hell against his psychic or astral powers, at all, even if he does destroy his body.



> The empires average Star Destroyer ships have solar system wide range? When was this shown exactly?



Yes, light minute to light hour ranges, as we were directly shown in TESB.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 28, 2010)

HeOf7 said:


> God the Star-wars wank is unbelievable



Name one thing that Freeza has that's going to destroy to even scratch the Sun Crusher...considering the damned thing sat inside a solar system that was being destroyed by one of it's Supernova missiles.

Freeza's not doing jack shit to it.



HeOf7 said:


> And *Palpatine* has this?



the OP said he gets all the resources of the empire, meaning he not only gets Vader and fucking Grand Admiral Thrawn, but he gets all the nasty little goodies Mad Scientists Guild in the Maw dreamed up and that includes the Sun Crusher

Yes I know Kevin J. Anderson was fucking stupid with what he wrote...doesn't change the fact that it's canon, you acting like a whiny baby over it won't change matters



MichaelUN89 said:


> Apparently Sun crushers can tank planetary+ level attacks and even resist the shock of a supernova (if it is not close to the explosion)



Try Gas Giant-Solar System level,hell the black hole didn't even destroy it, it just put out of everybody's reach.

@Raizen it's durability is insane, it rammed through a Star Destroyer sat inside star system going Nova...twice. throwing it inside a Gas Giant did jack shit to it


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## Endless Mike (Apr 28, 2010)

We know Frieza has at least 79 planets. The GE has millions of planets.


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## Stermor (Apr 28, 2010)

one question if a sun explodes that isn't faster then light right ?? freeza's ship won't even notice it since it will be gone faster then the explosion will expand??

this basically means that unless you actualy aim the sun crusher at freeza himself he will likely survive. 

the problem i see is that freeza has to actualy get a henchmen out on a stardestroyer to destroy it. i find it unlikely freeza's henchmens have enough power to blast through the shields. since the need to get close star destroyers can easily destroy the ships they come in. 

this will make freeza's team lose i guess. 

provided goku won't get mind raped goku stands a better chance at destroying the ge then freeza's entire empire. goku has instant transmission and that will allow him to negate any and all defenses the ge has(other the mind rape). 

for some reason i just don't see freeza or goku beeing very easily mind raped.


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## Lucifeller (Apr 28, 2010)

Dropping in to state something regarding an earlier post:

Guldo can't freeze time, he freezes movement, and moreover, he was unable to freeze Vegeta who blindsided him and decapitated him, which points to his power not working unless the victims are within his cone of vision. This leaves him boned, as a lot of the crap Palpatine has can nuke anything Freeza has from OUTSIDE THE SOLAR SYSTEM THEY ARE IN entirely, and certainly from way out of sight.

The issue here isn't so much firepower as range, and a lot of the Empire's weapons have colossal range in addition to blowing shit up. Without Freeza being directly involved, his forces are totally boned, as no one has shown even the ability to kill things in orbit from the ground, let alone several astronomical units away... and only King Cold can be argued as capable of surviving in space, and one man against the Empire's firepower? Uhhhh... no.


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## Punpun (Apr 28, 2010)

I've an innocent question 

Firstly, I know anything about EU SW but could you answer me how Darth Vader isn't the stronger Jedi/sith ever (or with the biggest potential) because he is Midoclorian(?) ? In short, and if I'd understand the movie, the Force personificated ?


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## Tranquil Fury (Apr 28, 2010)

This is off topic but because Vader never reached his full potential and the fact he lost most of his agility when he was put inside the suit. Now he would have surpassed Palpatine by being 2Xstronger so he'd have surpassed Sidious and Yoda. Luke Skywalker has the same potential as Vader and in the EU he reaches it. Word of God says Luke became what Vader was supposed to have.


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## Punpun (Apr 28, 2010)

Thankx 

Oh and SW stomped Freeza.


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## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

Lucifeller said:


> Dropping in to state something regarding an earlier post:
> 
> Guldo can't freeze time, he freezes movement, and moreover, he was unable to freeze Vegeta who blindsided him and decapitated him, which points to his power not working unless the victims are within his cone of vision. This leaves him boned, as a lot of the crap Palpatine has can nuke anything Freeza has from OUTSIDE THE SOLAR SYSTEM THEY ARE IN entirely, and certainly from way out of sight.
> 
> The issue here isn't so much firepower as range, and a lot of the Empire's weapons have colossal range in addition to blowing shit up. Without Freeza being directly involved, his forces are totally boned, as no one has shown even the ability to kill things in orbit from the ground, let alone several astronomical units away... and only King Cold can be argued as capable of surviving in space, and one man against the Empire's firepower? Uhhhh... no.



Where are you getting this?


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## Raigen (Apr 28, 2010)

1.Freeza can planet-bust in base form. This has been shown and proven. Debating this point is retarded.

2. All of Freeza's ships are absurdly ftl. Goku's space-pod that he jacked from the Ginyu Force would've arrived on Earth in a few days from some other far-distant location within the galaxy, and their ships don't require hyperspace. And Freeza's ship was even faster. In terms of speed, ships in DBZ are leagues beyond the speed of SW ships who require hyperspace in order to move beyond the speed of light.

3. The most 'mind-jacking' Sidious ever did was to peoples perceptions of something, not outright mind-destruction because if he could manage that he would've done so to the whole Jedi Order and the republic and the Resistance and pretty much everyone that challenged him who couldn't resist.

4. The Sun-Crusher was built specifically to be resistant to the heat and force generated by a super-nova using a special alloy. No matter how tough a ship is, the single most important thing is they all have doors and docking areas. All it takes is one guy getting inside and firing off a blast to obliterate the whole thing.

5. To believe that Star Destroyers can win over Freeza's minions is absurd. They've been damaged by crashing X-Wing's and the shielding over their shield generators has always been poor, never mind that it sticks out from the rest of the ship and is an easy target. A couple of low-ranked soldiers is all it takes.


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## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

I like how every single thing in Raigen's post is completely wrong.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 28, 2010)

attack of the zombie arguments


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## Raigen (Apr 28, 2010)

C'mon, it's not like you all don't know that all Freeza has to do is send in the Ginyu Force and SW will die of sheer embarrassment. 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooq1cApIe0s[/YOUTUBE]


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Raigen said:


> 4. The Sun-Crusher was built specifically to be resistant to the heat and force generated by a super-nova using a special alloy. No matter how tough a ship is, the single most important thing is they all have doors and docking areas. All it takes is one guy getting inside and firing off a blast to obliterate the whole thing.


In other words: They have no way of hurting it, and will die when the Supernova hits them.



Raigen said:


> 5. To believe that Star Destroyers can win over Freeza's minions is absurd. They've been damaged by crashing X-Wing's and the shielding over their shield generators has always been poor, never mind that it sticks out from the rest of the ship and is an easy target. A couple of low-ranked soldiers is all it takes.


You mean the same X-Wings that fight at around the speed of light (IIRC) and that are made of an alloy 300,000 times stronger than steel, and probably pack one volatile-ass fuel?? A near FTL stone is a planetary threat, this is made of something 300,000x stronger than steel, has a powerful fuel source, and is traveling near FTL, all the while being _much_ heavier.


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## MichaelUN89 (Apr 28, 2010)

Raigen said:


> 1.Freeza can planet-bust in base form. This has been shown and proven. Debating this point is retarded.
> 
> 2. All of Freeza's ships are absurdly ftl. Goku's space-pod that he jacked from the Ginyu Force would've arrived on Earth in a few days from some other far-distant location within the galaxy, and their ships don't require hyperspace. And Freeza's ship was even faster. In terms of speed, ships in DBZ are leagues beyond the speed of SW ships who require hyperspace in order to move beyond the speed of light.
> 
> ...


1.- He should be able to bust a planet in base form, at least a small one.
2.- FTL maybe, but not sure about the absudly ftl and faster than SW thing.  Also they can only move FTL in straight line by accelerating.  Also notice that in dragonball spaceships only move straight, as well they lack of weapons and have poor durability. So the only thing they can do is escape and in the end SW ships would speedblitz and destroy with low effort the space ships of Freezas empire.
3.- From what I am reading Vader  mind fucked lot of people accross the galaxy. And palpatine>Vader.  Also again telekinesis=/= telephaty=/= mind reading and mind fuck.  Freeza was unable to read the mind of GOku when he was talking with Kaio.
4.- Well they mentioned already that it survived a black hole which is beyond the powers of  anyone in dragonball  
5.- Are you sure? In any case a small object flying at light speeds could  potentially destroy an small  planet leave alone something like an x-wings.

For example 

1 earth mass = 5.9742 × E24 kilograms


the speed of light = 299 792 458 m / s

Kinetic energy=  (M*V2) /2     lets say an x-wing weights at least one ton. 1 ton = 1000 kilograms. 
Ke1000 kilos *299 792 458e2 m / s )/2 = 4.49377589 × E19 kgm2/s2

You see how absurd is the kinetic energy of a body that moves at or near light speed?

But apparently according to some sources x-wings have weight of around 11-15 tons. 

lets work with 10 tons
10 tons = 10,000 kilograms.  So it would be a kinetic energy of  around the 4.49377589 × e20kgm2/s2   supposing the object moves at light speed or near light speed.


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## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

Its clear in the movies the X-wings weren't maneuvering at light speed. So this whole 'a stone moving at light speed could do 'X' amount of damage, its pointless.

Most of the stuff in the EU is lightyears beyond anything anyone in the Movies or Shows has demonstrated. Despite there being ample reason for Palpatine to use his mind buggery in response to the Rebels among other things.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

MichaelUN89 said:


> lets work with 10 tons
> 10 tons = 10,000 kilograms.  So it would be a kinetic energy of  around the 4.49377589 ? e20kgm2/s2   supposing the object moves at light speed or near light speed.


You, my friend, forgot to adjust for Relativity and changes in mass. As matter gets closer and closer to the speed of light, it starts increasing in comparison to its speed until it reaches infinite mass at Light Speed. So it's an even bigger number.



Cooler said:


> Its clear in the movies the X-wings weren't maneuvering at light speed. So this whole 'a stone moving at light speed could do 'X' amount of damage, its pointless.


Yet it's already an accepted fact that they were moving close to light speed. Calcs, or something as such.



Cooler said:


> Most of the stuff in the EU is lightyears beyond anything anyone in the Movies or Shows has demonstrated. Despite there being ample reason for Palpatine to use his mind buggery in response to the Rebels among other things.


What? No, it isn't. Everything we are discussing here is either pre-films or during films SW EU stuff, so.... Bullshit, thy name is Cooler. Well, it's Raigen, but you fit in there too.


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## HeOf7 (Apr 28, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> Name one thing that Freeza has that's going to destroy to even scratch the Sun Crusher...considering the damned thing sat inside a solar system that was being destroyed by one of it's Supernova missiles.
> 
> Freeza's not doing jack shit to it.
> 
> ...



Ok the magical outer space ship wins. You should have just posted a wiki link of the Sun-Crusher and I would have seceded awhile ago.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

HeOf7 said:


> Ok the magical outer space ship wins. You should have just posted a wiki link of the Sun-Crusher and I would have seceded awhile ago.



It's called Google.


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## MichaelUN89 (Apr 28, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> You, my friend, forgot to adjust for Relativity and changes in mass. As matter gets closer and closer to the speed of light, it starts increasing in comparison to its speed until it reaches infinite mass at Light Speed. So it's an even bigger number.
> 
> 
> Yet it's already an accepted fact that they were moving close to light speed. Calcs, or something as such.
> ...


Indeed however I prefer to work with minimal values. 

Still supposing the x-wings moved at  hypersonic or  low relativistic speeds. 
The kinetic energy would still be absurd and it would have a very  high destructive power. 

But I am positive to think they were moving much faster than that and they were actually close to light speed.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

MichaelUN89 said:


> Indeed however I prefer to work with minimal values.
> 
> Still supposing the x-wings moved at  hypersonic or  low relativistic speeds.
> The kinetic energy would still be absurd and it would have a very  high destructive power.
> ...



Oh, don't worry about it at all. I wasn't criticizing you. And hell, I wouldn't work through relativistic calcs either, however, just pointing out to some of the idiots here....


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## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Yet it's already an accepted fact that they were moving close to light speed. Calcs, or something as such.



Well depending on the assumptions used in the calcs the speed could have been greatly exaggerated. 



> What? No, it isn't. Everything we are discussing here is either pre-films or during films SW EU stuff, so.... Bullshit, thy name is Cooler. Well, it's Raigen, but you fit in there too.



Now now no need to be an ass. I was merely stating that Palpatine never displayed the abilities mentioned in this thread during any of the movies despite having ample reason to. Which is true is it not? He didn't show any of these galactic scale super abilities in the Movies. Hence I am correct.

Now as to whether the EU is canon or not, I don't really care. I wasn't trying to start an argument on the matter.

Honestly I make a single post _which wasn't actually incorrect_ and suddenly I'm put into the 'Bullshit' category?


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## MichaelUN89 (Apr 28, 2010)

Well since apparently we are using the EU as welll 
Palpaltine should be albe to solo the empire of Freeza and Freeza







One of the most powerful known Force abilities in existenc*e, Force storm was capable of tearing the fabric of the space-time continuum* *by opening dimension-altering rifts in the universe.[4][7][8] The power allowed a Force-user to generate unique hyperspace wormholes, *violent vortices of Force energy known as Force  storms, anywhere from less than one hundred meters to over one kilometer  in diameter.[4] They typically appeared as colossal, swirling blue vortices of destructive Force energy.[4][9] *Force storms could devastate the surfaces of entire planets  and consume whole fleets of starships.[4] Storms could also safely transport living beings across the galaxy in a short span of time[1] and, if used in conjunction with certain Sith artifacts, could send  a being forward in time.*[6]


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Well depending on the assumptions used in the calcs the speed could have been greatly exaggerated.


Except that there are no unjustified assumptions made or it wouldn't be a calc, it would be Unknown.


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## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Except that there are no unjustified assumptions made or it wouldn't be a calc, it would be Unknown.



The thing is though if the X-Wings were going that fast they'd be passing SD's in tiny fractions of seconds due to their relative speeds. Afterall the SD's weren't travelling close to C otherwise they'd be doing laps of the planet...

Anyway with all the EU crap and super force abilities Freeza stands no chance at all...

Although what if Frieza uses Saiyan space pods to litterally ram SD's etc? The pods would be destroyed for sure but at FTL speeds surely the impact would be insane.


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## Sazabi24 (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> The thing is though if the X-Wings were going that fast they'd be passing SD's in tiny fractions of seconds due to their relative speeds. Afterall the SD's weren't travelling close to C otherwise they'd be doing laps of the planet...
> 
> Anyway with all the EU crap and super force abilities Freeza stands no chance at all...
> 
> Although what if Frieza uses Saiyan space pods to litterally ram SD's etc? The pods would be destroyed for sure but at FTL speeds surely the impact would be insane.



Lightspeed Imperial star destroyers hitting the executor did absolutely nothing.


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## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

Sazabi24 said:


> Lightspeed Imperial star destroyers hitting the executor did absolutely nothing.



When did this occur? And the Saiyan pods could be going at FTL speeds...


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> When did this occur? And the Saiyan pods could be going at FTL speeds...



And yet are _massively_ lighter than a SD and nowhere near as volatile and thickly armored....so they'll do even less nothing.


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## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> And yet are _massively_ lighter than a SD and nowhere near as volatile and thickly armored....so they'll do even less nothing.



Is there even an equation for calculating the K.E of a faster than light object? If there isn't then I don't think you're qualified to say it would do nothing.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Is there even an equation for calculating the K.E of a faster than light object? If there isn't then I don't think you're qualified to say it would do nothing.



The closer you are to the speed of light, the more your mass increases. Once you are at light speed you are at infinite mass.


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## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> The closer you are to the speed of light, the more your mass increases. Once you are at light speed you are at infinite mass.



But beyond light speed who knows what happens. I was suggesting the space pods hit the SD's at the speeds they use to traverse the galaxy which would be thousands of times C.

At infinite mass you'd have infinite K.E, so there's no way a SD is tanking that...


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> But beyond light speed who knows what happens. I was suggesting the space pods hit the SD's at the speeds they use to traverse the galaxy which would be thousands of times C.
> 
> At infinite mass you'd have infinite K.E, so there's no way a SD is tanking that...



Welcome to fiction. The only way to adjust for that would be to ignore all conventions and say:

1) Calculate it without relativistic effects

2) Start treating infinites like normal numbers

Either way, SD wins.


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## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Welcome to fiction. The only way to adjust for that would be to ignore all conventions and say:
> 
> 1) Calculate it without relativistic effects
> 
> ...



Or seeing as its the EU we can just call BS on that particular feat.


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## Shagari (Apr 28, 2010)

Raigen said:


> English subtitled at least, not dubbed. And yeah, Goten and Trunks were pwning them.
> 
> 
> 
> Not mountain-busters, mountain-*chain* busters and *moon*-busters and above. Piccolo nuked the moon and he was still weaker than Raditz (he did it like the day after fighting Raditz). Freeza has untold millions, if not billions or more of these guys at his command, seeing as how his empire did span over an untold number of worlds in the Northern Galaxy. Plus there were stronger figures like Qui who was as strong as Vegeta was in Saiyan Saga, and Dodoria and Zarbon who were stronger than that (Dodoria at 20k, Zarbon at 22k and higher when transformed). Then Ginyu Force Members ranging from 20-60k with Ginyu himself at 120k. And as the movie suggests there are other teams under Freeza's command on par with the Ginyu Force.


The only main threats to Frieza's Empire are the Sun Crusher(s), Star Destroyers, and Death Stars. With those out of the way, Frieza crushes the empire rather easily. The problem is could Frieza and his non-foddler army destroy those major threats?

Busting a Death Star shouldn't be too hard (unless it has a force field protecting it from a moon busting Ki blast) but I am not sure about the other Galactic Empire super weapons.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Or seeing as its the EU we can just call BS on that particular feat.



No, you can't. EU is still canon.

Also, while I know this is late: the pods in DBZ do _not_ travel at thousands of times C. You can't anywhere near quantify that. All you can say is that they can supposedly move FTL.


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## Tranquil Fury (Apr 28, 2010)

> Lucas has often worked very closely with EU creators:
> 
> Lucas wrote the story for The Star Wars Holiday Special.
> Lucas wrote the stories for, executive produced, and directed pick-ups and re-shoots for, both of the Ewok films from the mid-eighties: Caravan of Courage and The Battle for Endor.
> ...



EU is canon. Live with it.



> The only main threats to Frieza's Empire are the Sun Crusher(s), Star Destroyers, and Death Stars. With those out of the way, Frieza crushes the empire rather easily. The problem is could Frieza and his non-foddler army destroy those major threats?



No especially to the Sun Crusher. And you keep ignoring mindrape from Palpatine.


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## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> No, you can't. EU is still canon.
> 
> Also, while I know this is late: the pods in DBZ do _not_ travel at thousands of times C. You can't anywhere near quantify that. All you can say is that they can supposedly move FTL.



Its of a lower canon than the Movies though, and I'm not saying ignore it all I'm saying ignore a stupid feat giving a GE ship infinite shielding as clearly this is wrong.

And yes you're right, I was assuming the ship travelled a great distance as it traversed the galaxy. There is however no supposedly about it the ships travel faster than light.

You do know George Lucas has claimed the EU is a parallel universe to his right?

Link removed

Also that is an official interview from GL.

*TotalFilm: Are you happy for new Star Wars tales to be told after your gone?

Lucas: I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII - IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything! And now there are novels about the events after Episode IV, which isn't at all what I would have done with it.

The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, The Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married... *

Its not black and white.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Shagari said:


> The only main threats to Frieza's Empire are the Sun Crusher(s), Star Destroyers, and Death Stars. With those out of the way, Frieza crushes the empire rather easily. The problem is could Frieza and his non-foddler army destroy those major threats?


Not at all....



Shagari said:


> Busting a Death Star shouldn't be too hard (unless it has a force field protecting it from a moon busting Ki blast) but I am not sure about the other Galactic Empire super weapons.


Just so you know, the Death Star supposedly had better shields than any other ship. The Executor could withstand concentrated volleys from the majority of the fleet at Yavin for at least a few minutes.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Its of a lower canon than the Movies though, and I'm not saying ignore it all I'm saying ignore a stupid feat giving a GE ship infinite shielding as clearly this is wrong.
> 
> And yes you're right, I was assuming the ship travelled a great distance as it traversed the galaxy. There is however no supposedly about it the ships travel faster than light.
> 
> ...


SW The Force Unleashed, and a large variety of Video Games would like a word with you. They are EU. Canon, EU, that Lucas had to do with.


----------



## Raigen (Apr 28, 2010)

Death Star and Star Destroyers aren't much of a threat. Once DS destroys one planet, Freeza's goons will attack them in force and destroy them easily.



> Just so you know, the Death Star supposedly had better shields than any other ship. The Executor could withstand concentrated volleys from the majority of the fleet at Yavin for at least a few minutes.



Not gonna be worth much against hundreds or thousands of moon-busting guys flying out and firing hundreds of thousands of attacks in rapid succession. 

If it comes down to Freeza and Palpatine, it'll end in one of two ways. Either Palpy can get off a mental-attack, or Freeza glares at him and explodes him to pieces.


----------



## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> SW The Force Unleashed, and a large variety of Video Games would like a word with you. They are EU. Canon, EU, that Lucas had to do with.



Well anything pertaining to a reborn Palpatine is non canon according to GL.

As for novel versions of the movies and some games maybe thats a bit different. However considering the level of force powers seen in the Movies anything that goes far beyond that is basically contradictory. 

Claims that Darth Vader could force choke Frieza's armies from across the galaxy are complete BS.

Now if it comes down to movie SW and Frieza's empire I don't think its such a clear victory for the GE.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Its of a lower canon than the Movies though, and I'm not saying ignore it all I'm saying ignore a stupid feat giving a GE ship infinite shielding as clearly this is wrong.
> 
> And yes you're right, I was assuming the ship travelled a great distance as it traversed the galaxy. There is however no supposedly about it the ships travel faster than light.
> 
> ...



You seem to know about Star Wars in which you'd know that certain EU don't count, like the much older ones however G canon(Lucas) exists in EU and the second level of canon is C which is also accepted as long as it does'nt contradict with G canon. I've given you instances when Lucas himself supervises or takes part in EU. Clone Wars is EU but it is canon. 

Lucas is still free to make a novel or comic or game non-canon and go in his direction. He does supervise it and yes things need to pass Status Quo by Lucas before an author can use/do it.


----------



## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Or seeing as its the EU we can just call BS on that particular feat.



No, also why is anyone still responding or bothering to respond to whatshisface?


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Well anything pertaining to a reborn Palpatine is non canon according to GL.



Leland Chee would like to have a word with you.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Apr 28, 2010)

Reborn Palpatine does'nt contradict anything, he's supposed to be much stronger than regular palpatine due to the circumstances and he comes after the 6 movies. This level of canon is useable. Lucas considers it alternate continuity but even that can be canon. EU is meant to not contradict the movies or other EU barring N canon.


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## MichaelUN89 (Apr 28, 2010)

I hope it helps 
Official levels of canon

The Holocron is an internal database maintained by Lucas Licensing for the express purpose of trying to maintain continuity within all licensed products. The Holocron is sorted into four levels of canon, reflecting LFL's canon and continuity policies: G, C, S, and N.

    * G (George Lucas) canon is absolute canon. This category includes the six films, the deleted scenes from the films, the novelizations of the films, the radio dramas based on the films, the film scripts, and any material found in any other source (published or not) that comes directly from George Lucas himself. G canon outranks all other forms of canon.
    * C (continuity) canon refers to the main body of EU work, and is the next most authoritative level of canon. All material published under the Star Wars label that doesn't fall into either G, S, or N canon is C canon and is considered authoritative as long as it isn't contradicted by G canon.
    * S (secondary) canon refers to older, less accurate, or less coherent EU works, which would not ordinarily fit in the main continuity of G and C canon. For example, this includes the popular online roleplaying game Star Wars Galaxies, and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.
    * N continuity material is also known as "non-canon" or "non-continuity" material. What-if stories (such as those published under the Infinities label) and anything else that cannot at all fit into continuity is placed into this category. "N-continuity" is not considered canon.

Therefore  the Reborn of Palpatine  post movies is considered as canon.

And hey! it is Nihilus.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Death Star and Star Destroyers aren't much of a threat. Once DS destroys one planet, Freeza's goons will attack them in force and destroy them easily.


Except that it has shields, and that it has something akin to rapidfire for its superlaser.



Shagari said:


> Not gonna be worth much against hundreds or thousands of moon-busting guys flying out and firing hundreds of thousands of attacks in rapid succession.


While they are torn to shreds by Star Destroyers...or Eclipse classes.... Or hell, a single Sun Crusher.



Shagari said:


> If it comes down to Freeza and Palpatine, it'll end in one of two ways. Either Palpy can get off a mental-attack, or Freeza glares at him and explodes him to pieces.


Palp can mindrape Freeza and kill him countless other ways... Not to mention that if Freeza _does_ kill Palpatine, then Palpatine just takes over Freeza's body. Now, Freeza is a Planet-busting Sith Lord named Palpatine.




Cooler said:


> As for novel versions of the movies and some games maybe thats a bit different. However considering the level of force powers seen in the Movies anything that goes far beyond that is basically contradictory.


No, it's not a different story. Lucas was, himself, involved with the Force Unleashed. He likes EU. He likes SW being made into video games and other adaptions, and he even helps on some ocassions.



Cooler said:


> Claims that Darth Vader could force choke Frieza's armies from across the galaxy are complete BS.


EU Canon>>>>>>>>>>>>Your bullshit.



Cooler said:


> Now if it comes down to movie SW and Frieza's empire I don't think its such a clear victory for the GE.


Tractor Beams immobilize all of Freeza's soldiers and then him. Imperials proceed to rape.


----------



## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> You seem to know about Star Wars in which you'd know that certain EU don't count, like the much older ones however G canon(Lucas) exists in EU and the second level of canon is C which is also accepted as long as it does'nt contradict with G canon. I've given you instances when Lucas himself supervises or takes part in EU. Clone Wars is EU but it is canon.
> 
> Lucas is still free to make a novel or comic or game non-canon and go in his direction. He does supervise it and yes things need to pass Status Quo by Lucas before an author can use/do it.



Well then as far as which EU does count how do we decide for this debate what wank feat to ignore and what one to include?


----------



## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Reborn Palpatine does'nt contradict anything, he's supposed to be much stronger than regular palpatine due to the circumstances and he comes after the 6 movies. This level of canon is useable. Lucas considers it alternate continuity but even that can be canon. EU is meant to not contradict the movies or other EU barring N canon.



Also to follow up in this originally in Dark Empire Sidious states RoTJ wasn't his first death, this is a direct contradiction of what Leland Chee and Lucas said. What happened? The line was ignored and stated to be bullshit to scare Luke into submission and the comic still retains its continuity.

And if anyone wants to bitch about Lucas and his involvement in EU, he specifically had Leland Chee advise him on what to add in the Special Edition versions of the original trilogy.

Such as Dash Rendar's starship, and Coruscant, you know, the capital of the Galactic Empire and Old Republic that was originally created by TZ in Heir to the Empire trilogy?

Or how he wanted to make a sequel trilogy he would used Dark Empire since its his favorite EU series besides New Jedi Order.


----------



## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Palp can mindrape Freeza and kill him countless other ways... Not to mention that if Freeza _does_ kill Palpatine, then Palpatine just takes over Freeza's body. Now, Freeza is a Planet-busting Sith Lord named Palpatine.



George Lucas says you're an idiot seeing as Palps never did this in the Movies.



> No, it's not a different story. Lucas was, himself, involved with the Force Unleashed. He likes EU. He likes SW being made into video games and other adaptions, and he even helps on some ocassions.



Only some EU is canon.



> EU Canon>>>>>>>>>>>>Your bullshit.



I think we have a Star wanker on our hands. Not all of the EU is canon.



> Tractor Beams immobilize all of Freeza's soldiers and then him. Imperials proceed to rape.



While they're impaled they hurl moon busters and destroy the SD's...


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Apr 28, 2010)

Actually I have the idea that Lucas and his staff said that Force Unleashed was like a canon mini prequel that exists between episode 3 and 4.  A story that explains what happened during that time. Out of that   I read somewhre that Lucas suggested the idea of  "the return/reborn of Palpatine".


"*# N continuity material is also known as "non-canon" or "non-continuity" material. What-if stories (such as those published under the Infinities label) and anything else that cannot at all fit into continuity is placed into this category. "N-continuity" is not considered canon.*"

Only "what if" stories and stories that do not fit the time line or continuit are non canon. Everything else in the EU  is canon


----------



## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

Also awesome how Cooler clearly displays he doesn't know about what he's talking about seeing as how there's nothing in the movies that state Force Users can't perform those feats.

Not showing does not equal a contradiction, logically.


----------



## Es (Apr 28, 2010)

Is Raigen still spewing utter nonsense again? And Cooler for the last time EU is cannon, don't believe me? Look up the Essential Chonology.


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## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

TWF said:


> Also awesome how Cooler clearly displays he doesn't know about what he's talking about seeing as how there's nothing in the movies that state Force Users can't perform those feats.
> 
> Not showing does not equal a contradiction, logically.



Not showing when you have ample reason to is a contradiction of sorts.

Seeing as the Movies are the highest form of canon they >>> EU


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> George Lucas says you're an idiot seeing as Palps never did this in the Movies.



Doesn't matter since DE is canon.



Cooler said:


> Most of the EU is canon.



Corrected. 



Cooler said:


> I think we have a Star wanker on our hands. Not all of the EU isn't canon.



You mean is canon.


----------



## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Doesn't matter since DE is canon.



DE?



> Corrected.



Debatable. George Lucas denies clone Palpatines etc...thats a huge chunk of right there.



> You mean is canon.



I did indeed.


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> DE?



Dark Empire



Cooler said:


> Debatable. George Lucas denies clone Palpatines etc...thats a huge chunk of right there.



Prove it.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Well then as far as which EU does count how do we decide for this debate what wank feat to ignore and what one to include?


Simple, what is accepted as canon by Lucas and Lucas Arts... Which is a large majority of EU.



Cooler said:


> George Lucas says you're an idiot seeing as Palps never did this in the Movies.


George Lucas agrees with the vast majority of EU, this being one.



Cooler said:


> Only some EU is canon.


A large majority of it is.



Cooler said:


> I think we have a Star wanker on our hands.


God you are an idiot.....

*Negged*



Cooler said:


> While they're impaled they hurl moon busters and destroy the SD's...


They can't move...at all....



MichaelUN89 said:


> Actually I have the idea that Lucas and his staff said that Force Unleashed was like a canon mini prequel that exists between episode 3 and 4.  A story that explains what happened during that time. Out of that   I read somewhre that Lucas suggested the idea of  "the return/reborn of Palpatine"


Haha, not really. Force Unleashed was a full-fledged, canon prequel to the original trilogy taking place between episodes three and four. Except...Lucas got pissed off 'cause the game sucks. It's still canon, but a lot of people got in trouble, and now a Force Unleashed 2 is being unleashed, and should be much more badass.



MichaelUN89 said:


> Only "what if" stories and stories that do not fit the time line or continuit are non canon. Everything else in the EU  is canon


Which would be the vast majority of it.



Gundam Guy said:


> Is Raigen still spewing utter nonsense again?


Now it's cooler more than Raigen.



Cooler said:


> Not showing when you have ample reason to is a contradiction of sorts.


Not at all. And, you're forgetting that the SW movies were great movies that were prone to go over budget and also were supplied with some of the shittiest budgets at the time. So, it was actually impossible to pull off the vast majority of stuff that Lucas wanted to do.



Cooler said:


> Seeing as the Movies are the highest form of canon they >>> EU


No, not really. What _George Lucas_ says is canon is canon. If he wished to, he could deem all the movies noncanon and start over again. He accepts the vast majority of EU.

So...again.... George Lucas>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Your Bullshit.


----------



## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

here

Already proven.

Negg'd back by the way for ignoring an actual interview with George Lucas stating his thoughts on the EU. You're the idiot BTW seeing as George himself states that in his story Palpatine was never cloned. E.g. He stayed dead moron.


----------



## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Not showing when you have ample reason to is a contradiction of sorts.
> 
> Seeing as the Movies are the highest form of canon they >>> EU



Do I need to define what a contradiction actually means?


----------



## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Debatable. George Lucas denies clone Palpatines etc...thats a huge chunk of right there.



Out of curiosity, when is that article from?

Also, wow, I put you in the red.... I feel proud of myself, it's my first time being able to do such a thing.


----------



## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

Its an interview with 'Total Film'.


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## MichaelUN89 (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Not showing when you have ample reason to is a contradiction of sorts.
> 
> Seeing as the Movies are the highest form of canon they >>> EU



Well technically Lucas and his staff agree that the universe of lucas is the asbolute canon, but the EU is canon as well. And  specially if George particiaptes and suggest the ideas-projects of the EU.  Only if it does contradict "G" canon  or it does not fit in the timeline-continuity, is considered as non canon. 

I.E.He supervised the project of Force Unleashed. He said that the story of Foce Unleash was an official story that exists between episode 3 and 4. 

So not accepting the Force Unleashed as main canon, would be like ignoring the idea and words of Lucas who has absolute power over his  own universe-story-creation and can decide what is part of it or not.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Its an interview with 'Total Film'.



I said from _when_.


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## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Its an interview with 'Total Film'.



And still cherry picking too, mein circle?


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

MichaelUN89 said:


> I.E. Leaded and supervised the project of Force Unleashed. He said that the story of Foce Unleash was an official story that exists between episode 3 and 4.
> 
> So not accepting the Force Unleashed as main canon, would be like ignoring _*All Six Star Wars Movies*_



Corrected for accuracy.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> here
> 
> Already proven.
> 
> Negg'd back by the way for ignoring an actual interview with George Lucas stating his thoughts on the EU. You're the idiot BTW seeing as George himself states that in his story Palpatine was never cloned. E.g. He stayed dead moron.



Wow, Lucas saying that he's not going to make any SW movies pertaining to what happens after ROTJ. Excellent reason.


----------



## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> I said from _when_.



Forgive me I misread...

May 2008, its fairly recent.

I'm not saying all EU isn't canon, I'm saying all this SW wank about Palpatine is.


----------



## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

Nope, wrong.

I have ten thousand interviews of Lucas talking about EU and its additions in the G-canon. Or the deaths of G-canon characters that is official in continuity for EU.

Your still wrong.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Also, he was referring to the way he had envisioned the story written, not outright denying it...


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Apr 28, 2010)

> Haha, not really. Force Unleashed was a full-fledged, canon prequel to the original trilogy taking place between episodes three and four. Except...Lucas got *pissed off 'cause the game sucks.* It's still canon, but a lot of people got in trouble, and* now a Force Unleashed 2 is being unleashed, *and should be much more badass.
> 
> 
> Which would be the vast majority of it.



Lol I did not know

I heard of it but I thought they were just rumors. Interesting any links?
If not, no worries -goes and googles-


----------



## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

TWF said:


> Nope, wrong.
> 
> I have ten thousand interviews of Lucas talking about EU and its additions in the G-canon. Or the deaths of G-canon characters that is official in continuity for EU.
> 
> Your still wrong.



I'm not wrong...its in the interview . How I can be wrong when I'm quoting the man himself? He said it didn't happen.

Ten thousand interviews? Well I won't ask to see all of them, point me to 3 of them. Each one claiming the EU in its entirety is canon.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Apr 28, 2010)

Never said the EU in its entirety is canon.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

MichaelUN89 said:


> Lol I did not know
> 
> I heard of it but I thought they were just rumors. Interesting any links?
> If not, no worries -goes and googles-



Haha, first link on Google, no joke:


Looks goddamn epic. Although I don't know how they'll play it, since Starkiller supposedly died, this is supposed to be a sequel taking place after the events of the original, and... Can't wait to see how Lucas Arts pulls it off.


----------



## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

Why do I have to provide an interview when you won't even give an actual date in your own interview?

Official status by the guardian of canon, Leland Chee directly says so since May 2002. You also haven't addressed why EU shows up in the movies or Lucas's direct involvement in writing or supervising several EU series.

What's your defense buddy? Or are you simply trolling?


----------



## Cooler (Apr 28, 2010)

TWF said:


> Why do I have to provide an interview when you won't even give an actual date in your own interview?
> 
> Official status by the guardian of canon, Leland Chee directly says so since May 2002. You also haven't addressed why EU shows up in the movies or Lucas's direct involvement in writing or supervising several EU series.
> 
> What's your defense buddy? Or are you simply trolling?



I did provide a date. May 2008, I posted it 10 minutes ago nearly. 

You have to provide an interview because I've backed up my claims with one, thats not trolling. If I said Lucas says the EU isn't canon because I read it in an interview but failed to provide the specifics of the interview, then I'd be trolling. 

Non of the super feats mentioned in this thread were in the Movies though, which is the point, if they were I wouldn't bother arguing.


----------



## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

You don't even know what a contradiction is mein square:

- Lucas was the Editor-in-Chief of the entire New Jedi Order series which is canon, which involves the CANONICAL deaths of multiple G-canon characters (Ackbar, Chewbecca, ect...)

- He also had the writers kill of Anakin Solo (pretty fucking obvious he gives a damn about EU)

- Again with Splinter of Mind's Eye being a ghost-write by Foster off the story by Lucas as a direct sequel if ANH failed at the box office
- Again with his comments on Dark Empire
- Clone Wars (both series) he has credits as producer and character design/creation and involvement with creative liberties for Tarovosky 
- Force Unleashed 

You also still haven't addressed why EU characters, events, and actions, and other stuff appear in the special edition and PT trilogies?

What's your defense?


----------



## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> I did provide a date. May 2008, I posted it 10 minutes ago nearly.


Except that Lucas wasn't denouncing EU, he was talking about SW as he'd originally envisioned it. He was saying how things would have gone if _he_ had written them. He still accepts them.




Cooler said:


> Non of the super feats mentioned in this thread were in the Movies though, which is the point, if they were I wouldn't bother arguing.



SW Force Unleashed is not in the movies at all, it is EU. It has a guy much weaker than Palpatine stopping a falling Star Destroyer with the Force. Are you going to deny that too??


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Apr 28, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Haha, first link on Google, no joke:
> 
> 
> Looks goddamn epic. Although I don't know how they'll play it, since Starkiller supposedly died, this is supposed to be a sequel taking place after the events of the original, and... Can't wait to see how Lucas Arts pulls it off.



Fucking epic Indeed. And yea lets see how Lucas Arts pulls it off.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Apr 28, 2010)

Keeper of the Holocron would like to have a word with you.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Roflmao. So, Cooler, you revenge neg me, but all you can give out is a null? BYAHAHAHAAH!!!


----------



## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

Revenge of the Sith novelization by Stover also had specific elements Lucas wanted only in the novel as the "de grace" version for the more intensive Star Wars/Expanded Universe fandom:



> Though I did not personally watch him do it, I received from LFL a Word document of Revenge of the Sith with Mr Lucas' edits, which was distinct from the edits I'd already gotten from Sue Rostoni and Howard Roffman and the rest of the LFL crew, and this document was edited in such a detailed fashion that even individual words had been struck off and his preferred replacements inserted, as well as some passages wholly excised and some dialogue replaced with the dialogue from the screenplay. If that's not line-editing, I don't know what is.
> 
> *What's in that book is there because Mr. Lucas wanted it to be there. What's not in that book is not there because Mr. Lucas wanted it gone.
> 
> Period. *



The Demon

What's even more interesting is even when Lucas states otherwise about EU, he does not hold any actual weight over the canonicty or validity of EU since that's Leland Chee's job that he gave him.

Two, all of Lucas's actual actions contradict his negative statements on EU.

Three, a contradiction is a character doing something that they can not officially do. It is NOT something they haven's shown then perform later.


----------



## Punpun (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler, Why haven't you pinpoint the most important thing of your interview. "*SW story is really the tragedy of darth vader. That's the story.* Once he dies, he doesn't come back to life, emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married"  

So Why did he changes his advice 

Ps: if s.oo can explain it to me.

But nevertheless, Emperor Palpatine would win.


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Apr 28, 2010)

Mandom said:


> Cooler, Why haven't you pinpoint the most important thing of your interview. "*SW story is really the tragedy of darth vader. That's the story.* Once he dies, he doesn't come back to life, emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married"
> 
> So Why did he changes his advice
> 
> ...



It would be like when suddenlly said that   the  first movies were actually episode IV, V and VI   and he was going to work  later  in episode I, II and III.

Money makes people change of mind.  
He might tell the nice story of "I did not have enough resources at that time to create the first movies". But I belive it was more like "his movies were an epic success" and decided to work in  the  "first" parts. 
Still it does not change the fact that episode 1 and 3 were awesome and the music is a master piece.


----------



## Shoddragon (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> DE?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




is that why george lucas agreed with the force unleashed being canon? before the game/comics of it were even released the creators basically sent a list of things they would want to count as canon and he basically said yes to all of them and even added his own stuff.

also, go to wookiepedia or something. the levels of star wars canon are there.


----------



## Punpun (Apr 28, 2010)

Indeed 

Money solves everything 

But in a sense The I, II and III movies are still a part of Anakin's tragedy ...


----------



## Raigen (Apr 28, 2010)

The *Real* tragedy is you people thinkin episodes 1-3 were 'good'.


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Apr 28, 2010)

Raigen said:


> The *Real* tragedy is you people thinkin episodes 1-3 were 'good'.


For me at least 
Episode 2 was bad.
Episode 1 was nice. And Episode 3 was awesome. Still the old ones are a great classic.


----------



## Punpun (Apr 28, 2010)

Technically wise, The second trilogy is way above the first. After, from the POV of a SW fan that could be different.


----------



## Raigen (Apr 28, 2010)

The only saving grace of Phanom Menace was Darth Maul, and Lucas killed him off like a little bitch. Ep2 was horrid. Ep3 could've been better, but Anakin was still a whiny little bitch the whole time. And then Padme with the "she has lost the will to live" bull. Like, really? She just had 2 kids and she doesn't wanna live anymore because her boyfriend choked her? C'mon, they just call that kinky sex now. :ho


----------



## Punpun (Apr 28, 2010)

That is canon for you Sir 

Don't go against Lucas will


----------



## Raigen (Apr 28, 2010)

Dragon Ball Online is canon for DB/Z (Manga) by will of Akira Toriyama! 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHSTkdXigBI[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Raigen said:


> The *Real* tragedy is you people thinkin episodes 1-3 were 'good'.


I-meh
II-Bad
III-Above Average



Raigen said:


> The only saving grace of Phanom Menace was Darth Maul, and Lucas killed him off like a little bitch. Ep2 was horrid. Ep3 could've been better, but Anakin was still a whiny little bitch the whole time. And then Padme with the "she has lost the will to live" bull. Like, really? She just had 2 kids and she doesn't wanna live anymore because her boyfriend choked her? C'mon, they just call that kinky sex now. :ho


Anakin's transformation from bitchy emo to complete badass only makes Darth Vader even more awesome. Paul approves of Episode III.


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## Shock Therapy (Apr 28, 2010)

Episode 3 wasn't that good story wise, but the special effects were awesome


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## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

Compared to the standard quality of your average action or sci-fi flick Episode III is like ANH or TESB vs the current stuff since 2004.

It's certainly a very good movie sans Anakin's last few lines in the movie and Padme's droning.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 28, 2010)

TWF said:


> Compared to the standard quality of your average action or sci-fi flick Episode III is like ANH or TESB vs the current stuff since 2004.
> 
> It's certainly a very good movie sans Anakin's last few lines in the movie and Padme's droning.



actually, I can't remember the last good sci-fi movies I saw save for Logan's Run which I saw for my sci-fi class ( and that came out before star wars did if I remember right)


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## Raigen (Apr 28, 2010)

Aliens and Predator will always be epic for sci-fi. And I still like the original Dune movie.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 28, 2010)

Raigen said:


> And I still like the original Dune movie.


It was complete shit, and Lynch should've been lynched for that film.


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## Shagari (Apr 28, 2010)

Raigen said:


> 1.Freeza can planet-bust in base form. This has been shown and proven. Debating this point is retarded.
> 
> 2. All of Freeza's ships are absurdly ftl. Goku's space-pod that he jacked from the Ginyu Force would've arrived on Earth in a few days from some other far-distant location within the galaxy, and their ships don't require hyperspace. And Freeza's ship was even faster. In terms of speed, ships in DBZ are leagues beyond the speed of SW ships who require hyperspace in order to move beyond the speed of light.



I would actually agree with you on those two points. Especially point one. 



Raigen said:


> 3. The most 'mind-jacking' Sidious ever did was to peoples perceptions of something, not outright mind-destruction because if he could manage that he would've done so to the whole Jedi Order and the republic and the Resistance and pretty much everyone that challenged him who couldn't resist.


Not sure if this point is valid or not.




Raigen said:


> 4. The Sun-Crusher was built specifically to be resistant to the heat and force generated by a super-nova using a special alloy. No matter how tough a ship is, the single most important thing is they all have doors and docking areas. All it takes is one guy getting inside and firing off a blast to obliterate the whole thing.
> 
> 5. To believe that Star Destroyers can win over Freeza's minions is absurd. They've been damaged by crashing X-Wing's and the shielding over their shield generators has always been poor, never mind that it sticks out from the rest of the ship and is an easy target. A couple of low-ranked soldiers is all it takes.


You are underestimating the power/durability of a Sun Crusher. Having Supernova level durability>>>>planet level durability. 

However, I'll agree with you on the point where one of Frieza's men can attack the Sun Crush by getting within it. The only problem is if they could actually get inside of it. Better yet, the Sun Destroyer could destroy them before they even had a chance to attack yet from another solar system.

Anyways, this might be a stupid question, but are the characters blood-lusted or in character? In character, I think Frieza's would likely loose due to his over confidence/cockiness.


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## Raigen (Apr 28, 2010)

> Anyways, this might be a stupid question, but are the characters blood-lusted or in character? In character, I think Frieza's would likely loose due to his over confidence/cockiness.



That goes both ways though. Sidious never used his mental abilities offensively (in battle or otherwise) in the movies (any of them) or early EU novels and, in fact, when he was told by Oracles that certain events would lead to his fall and the destruction of the Empire he ignored them completely, believing that no one could succeed in doing so.


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## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

lol at Raigen using non-canon shit for EU


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## Es (Apr 28, 2010)

Raigen fails yet again.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 28, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Well depending on the assumptions used in the calcs the speed could have been greatly exaggerated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He didn't mindfuck the entire rebel fleet because he was confident that the Death Star would take care of them, which is the same reason he didn't just use any of his other nasty little abilites



Shagari said:


> The only main threats to Frieza's Empire are the Sun Crusher(s), Star Destroyers, and Death Stars. With those out of the way, Frieza crushes the empire rather easily. The problem is could Frieza and his non-foddler army destroy those major threats?
> 
> Busting a Death Star shouldn't be too hard (unless it has a force field protecting it from a moon busting Ki blast) but I am not sure about the other Galactic Empire super weapons.



And the Galaxy Gun...and the Emperor's Plague Warehouse.



Raigen said:


> Death Star and Star Destroyers aren't much of a threat. Once DS destroys one planet, Freeza's goons will attack them in force and destroy them easily.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



and after Freeza destoys either the prototype or the first Death Star, Palpatine orders out the other two, the Sun Crusher to mobilize, launches the fleet of World Devestators, orders someone to fire the Galaxy Gun, drops the zombie virus on one of Freeza's worlds and for shits and giggles has somebody make a run through of his plague warehouse brining out several biohazards including the Krytos Plague.





Raigen said:


> The *Real* tragedy is you people thinkin episodes 1-3 were 'good'.



Nobody actually likes episode I, episode II was bland and Episode III was okay.


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## Champagne Supernova (Apr 28, 2010)

Why is this thread still going?

Palpatine destroys Freiza.


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## Raigen (Apr 28, 2010)

Because Freeza can do this at his weakest level. (about 3:40 in)
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDQoQGavnCk[/YOUTUBE]


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## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

Freeza isn't a planet buster in his base form, enough of this circle jerking non sense. If he can even planet-bust without causing a chain reaction is possible but thats a maybe if we saw what he could do to a planet with his Death Ball at full 100% power.

Anyway, Palpatine was using Battle Meditation on the entire Imperial sector fleet at the Battle of Endor.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 28, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Because Freeza can do this at his weakest level. (about 3:40 in)
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDQoQGavnCk[/YOUTUBE]



Too bad in the actual manga he just causes a chain rection to the planets he destroys.


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## Champagne Supernova (Apr 28, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Because Freeza can do this at his weakest level. (about 3:40 in)
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDQoQGavnCk[/YOUTUBE]



Silly little Raigen anime isn't canon.


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## Hellspawn28 (Apr 28, 2010)

For the cain rection thing, I thought Freeza hold back on using the Death Ball IIRC?


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## Fang (Apr 28, 2010)

Well he was exhausted, fought a bunch of people, over a long period of time (at least several hours) and only in the area of between 50% to 70% of his final form's full power. Jury's still out on that decision however.

Either way, his earlier forms can not planet-bust.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 28, 2010)

TWF said:


> Freeza isn't a planet buster in his base form, enough of this circle jerking non sense. If he can even planet-bust without causing a chain reaction is possible but thats a maybe if we saw what he could do to a planet with his Death Ball at full 100% power.
> 
> Anyway, Palpatine was using *Battle Meditation* on the entire Imperial sector fleet at the Battle of Endor.



wait WHAT? the emperor has mother fucking battle meditation? oh shit. I thought only Bastila had that ability. holy shit the emperor rapes even harder than I thought.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 28, 2010)

Shoddragon said:


> wait WHAT? the emperor has mother fucking battle meditation? oh shit. I thought only Bastila had that ability. holy shit the emperor rapes even harder than I thought.



No plenty of other Jedi or Sith have had it. The Jedi Exile has it Nomi Sunrider had it...I think Leia actually used it as well once.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 28, 2010)

wow, I learned something. but of course I am assuming they used it to varying degrees. I didn't know they had access to something so cheap ( assuming the other EU showings of battle meditation are as cheap as bastila using it).

she changed the tide of the battle from the sith losing to the sith roflstomping or vice versa depending on which side you chose in the game.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 28, 2010)

Shoddragon said:


> wow, I learned something. but of course I am assuming they used it to varying degrees. I didn't know they had access to something so cheap ( assuming the other EU showings of battle meditation are as cheap as bastila using it).
> 
> she changed the tide of the battle from the sith losing to the sith roflstomping or vice versa depending on which side you chose in the game.



Yeah the use of Battle Meditation depends on the wielder, as the Jedi Exile never showed anything near as uber while doing Battle Meditation as Bastilla did.

Wait no... as I recall The Exile actually did use it on a large scale when Nihilus attacks near the end of the game


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## Shoddragon (Apr 28, 2010)

since palpatine is clearly stronger than bastila... god. its scary to think how ridiculously cheap his fleet would become.


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## Superior (Apr 28, 2010)

Pretty Sure A Lightsaber Would Slice Up Anything Frieza Has To Throw At The Empire Pretty Nicely, Pretty Sure Galactic Empire Wins, Easily. Frieza's Soldiers Are Very Incompetent


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## Shoddragon (Apr 29, 2010)

so this is pretty much just another stomp?


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## Hellspawn28 (Apr 29, 2010)

I think Palpatine would win with his mindrape powers but I'm still pretty sure Freeza could bitlz him. I think it can go either way.


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## Sazabi24 (Apr 29, 2010)

Hellspawn28 said:


> I think Palpatine would win with his mindrape powers but I'm still pretty sure Freeza could *bitlz him.* I think it can go either way.



Freeza is going to blitz a pre-cogger with FTL reflexes?



Shoddragon said:


> wait WHAT? the emperor has mother fucking battle meditation? oh shit. I thought only Bastila had that ability. holy shit the emperor rapes even harder than I thought.



There were plenty of Battle meditators during Darth Bane's time.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Apr 29, 2010)

Sazabi24 said:


> Freeza is going to blitz a pre-cogger with FTL reflexes?



And Sidious has FTL reflexes since when?

Also Episode III was a decent enough film. Hayden vastly improved from AOTC and his final dialogue with Obi-Wan was epic.

"I have brought peace, freedom, justice and security to my new Empire!"

Just shows you how far gone the guy is. Gotta love it.

And while the PT is by no means great, from a purely "AWESOME!!" point-of-view, Episode 1 had the best duel in any of the films.


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## Sazabi24 (Apr 29, 2010)

A Tout le Monde said:


> I'm retarded, I don't know what EU is



Thanks for sharing.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 29, 2010)

Sazabi24 said:


> Freeza is going to blitz a pre-cogger with FTL reflexes?
> 
> 
> 
> There were plenty of Battle meditators during Darth Bane's time.



bastila was a good while before darth bane's time.


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## Tranquil Fury (Apr 29, 2010)

Obi Wan vs Anakin in episode III was the best.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Apr 29, 2010)

Sazabi24 said:


> Thanks for sharing.



So you refuse to prove your claim?

Also, as I'm the one who made a whole respect thread to a solely EU character and have been reading several of the books and comics for nearly ten years, I would appreciate it if you didn't run your uninformed mouth about what I do or don't know.


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## Sazabi24 (Apr 29, 2010)

Obviously pre-cog is not very fast reaction timing.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Apr 29, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Obi Wan vs Anakin in episode III was the best.



This is probably an even more epic tune than Duel of the Fates.


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## Shagari (Apr 29, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Obi Wan vs Anakin in episode III was the best.



I agree even though both of them are not directly involved in this battle.


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## Hellspawn28 (Apr 29, 2010)

> pre-cogger with FTL reflexes?



What EU story did he had this again?


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## Sazabi24 (Apr 29, 2010)

Hellspawn28 said:


> What EU story did he had this again?



How hard is it to understand precognition?


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 29, 2010)

Hellspawn28 said:


> What EU story did he had this again?



That's something that practically all Jedi and Sith have though.


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## Es (Apr 29, 2010)

Hellspawn28 said:


> What EU story did he had this again?



I thought that shit was shown in episode III ?


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## Raigen (Apr 29, 2010)

Freeza nuked a planet in base form. It's shown, proven and repeatedly stated. It's an undeniable fact. Ignoring it just shows how absurd and ridiculous you're being. Anyone who does not know that these guys were planet-busters early on needs to have their heads checked. Freeza busted a Planet at Base Level. Whether or not you accept it does not change this basic fact, nor does it change the fact that in Freeza's Final Form, at 1% of his maximum, he's 21x more powerful than he was in his base form.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Freeza nuked a planet in base form. It's shown, proven and repeatedly stated. It's an undeniable fact. Ignoring it just shows how absurd and ridiculous you're being. Anyone who does not know that these guys were planet-busters early on needs to have their heads checked. Freeza busted a Planet at Base Level. Whether or not you accept it does not change this basic fact, nor does it change the fact that in Freeza's Final Form, at 1% of his maximum, he's 21x more powerful than he was in his base form.



And...that's still not saving him from Sun Crusher or a missile shot from the Galaxy Gun half a galaxy away...nor is it saving him from a mindrape from Vader, Jerec, Blackhole or one of the other darkside adepts that Palpatine can send out


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## Sazabi24 (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Freeza nuked a planet in base form. It's shown, proven and repeatedly stated. It's an undeniable fact. Ignoring it just shows how absurd and ridiculous you're being. Anyone who does not know that these guys were planet-busters early on needs to have their heads checked. Freeza busted a Planet at Base Level. Whether or not you accept it does not change this basic fact, nor does it change the fact that in Freeza's Final Form, at 1% of his maximum, he's 21x more powerful than he was in his base form.



And some sith caused Supernovas

Try again.


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## Es (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Freeza nuked a planet in base form. It's shown, proven and repeatedly stated. It's an undeniable fact. Ignoring it just shows how absurd and ridiculous you're being. Anyone who does not know that these guys were planet-busters early on needs to have their heads checked. Freeza busted a Planet at Base Level. Whether or not you accept it does not change this basic fact, nor does it change the fact that in Freeza's Final Form, at 1% of his maximum, he's 21x more powerful than he was in his base form.



Raigen, the only thing ridiculous here is you, the Sun Crusher can cause supernovas, Supernovas can wipe out an entire fucking solar systems and once again solar systems >>> a single planet. He also has the Eclipse class Super star Destroyers, the Tarkin and both death stars at his disposal.


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## Raigen (Apr 29, 2010)

2nd Scenario is just Freeza and Palpatine themselves, no one else. Also the idea that any of those weapons can specifically target Freeza in an unknown region of space is completely ridiculous. If it comes down to a face-to-face battle between Freeza and Palpatine, Freeza wins in a ludicrous blitzstomp.

Everyone is automatically assuming the Empire knows everything about Freeza's empire and forces. Really, all anyone from his army has to do is fly a Spacepod into the Star Destroyers and other vessels and that'll obliterate them flat out. And as stated before if even one person gets on the Sun Crusher they can destroy it from the inside. Guldo can easily perform this by *freezing time*.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> 2nd Scenario is just Freeza and Palpatine themselves, no one else. Also the idea that any of those weapons can specifically target Freeza in an unknown region of space is completely ridiculous. If it comes down to a face-to-face battle between Freeza and Palpatine, Freeza wins in a ludicrous blitzstomp.
> 
> Everyone is automatically assuming the Empire knows everything about Freeza's empire and forces. Really, all anyone from his army has to do is fly a Spacepod into the Star Destroyers and other vessels and that'll obliterate them flat out. And as stated before if even one person gets on the Sun Crusher they can destroy it from the inside. Guldo can easily perform this by *freezing time*.



The Galaxy Gun can target objects from half a galaxy away...saying it can't find one of Freiza's planets is ludicrous.

Prove that Guldo can do his ability in space or even if he can survive in space

And Freiza charge up his Death Ball, Palpatine then hits him with a mind rape and blasts him full on with a Force Storm.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> 2nd Scenario is just Freeza and Palpatine themselves, no one else. Also the idea that any of those weapons can specifically target Freeza in an unknown region of space is completely ridiculous. If it comes down to a face-to-face battle between Freeza and Palpatine, Freeza wins in a ludicrous blitzstomp.
> 
> Everyone is automatically assuming the Empire knows everything about Freeza's empire and forces. Really, all anyone from his army has to do is fly a Spacepod into the Star Destroyers and other vessels and that'll obliterate them flat out. And as stated before if even one person gets on the Sun Crusher they can destroy it from the inside. Guldo can easily perform this by *freezing time*.



prove the range for said time stop.


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## Raigen (Apr 29, 2010)

> And Freiza charge up his Death Ball, Palpatine then hits him with a mind rape and blasts him full on with a Force Storm.



Absurd. What makes you think Freeza would even bother taking the whole 0.0000038sec required to charge that attack when all he has to do is *glare* at Sidious and explode him?


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## Es (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Absurd. What makes you think Freeza would even bother taking the whole 0.0000038sec required to charge that attack when all he has to do is *glare* at Sidious and explode him?



What makes you think Palps cant just tear a dimensional rift ad kill him before he gets the chance?


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## Raigen (Apr 29, 2010)

> What makes you think Palps cant just tear a dimensional rift ad kill him before he gets the chance?



Palpy ain't faster than Freeza, not by any stretch of the imagination. Freeza's first move will cleave Palpy in half, along with the planet.



> prove the range for said time stop.



Guldo stops time. Trying to put a range on it is a moot argument as all time stops. There is no indication of anything otherwise. Time is stopped until Guldo lets out his breath, which he can hold at best for maybe 15-20sec. All they have to do is fly him in with an FTL spacepod, knock against the Sun Crusher, have him freeze time, make his way in, then blow up the ship from the inside. A completely viable tactic. Guldo may be a weak worthless piece of shit, but he has his uses.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Palpy ain't faster than Freeza, not by any stretch of the imagination. Freeza's first move will cleave Palpy in half, along with the planet.
> 
> 
> 
> Guldo stops time. Trying to put a range on it is a moot argument as all time stops. There is no indication of anything otherwise. Time is stopped until Guldo lets out his breath, which he can hold at best for maybe 15-20sec. All they have to do is fly him in with an FTL spacepod, knock against the Sun Crusher, have him freeze time, make his way in, then blow up the ship from the inside. A completely viable tactic. Guldo may be a weak worthless piece of shit, but he has his uses.



And when the Crusher sees the Pod approaching it blows it up, Guldo's dead and since there's proof he can survive in space, problem or lack there of, as we have no indication of his range solved.

Or you know The Crusher goes FTl as well and runs straight through it like it did with The Hydra


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## Es (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Palpy ain't faster than Freeza, not by any stretch of the imagination. Freeza's first move will cleave Palpy in half, along with the planet.
> 
> 
> 
> Guldo stops time. Trying to put a range on it is a moot argument as all time stops. There is no indication of anything otherwise. Time is stopped until Guldo lets out his breath, which he can hold at best for maybe 15-20sec. All they have to do is fly him in with an FTL spacepod, knock against the Sun Crusher, have him freeze time, make his way in, then blow up the ship from the inside. A completely viable tactic. Guldo may be a weak worthless piece of shit, but he has his uses.



lol raigen, no just stop while your ahead, 1 Freeza or his men couldn't even hope to scrach the Sun Crusher, 2 Palps can sense him and create a force storm before he's even in range.


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## Raigen (Apr 29, 2010)

The idea it could catch a pod that can cross billions of lightyears in a far shorter span than any ship in the SWU is ridiculous, and even then the spacepods are slower than Freeza's Motherships, which can be used just as easily. And given that "no range" has been stated there's no reason to believe that it only works to a specific degree or range and making an attempt to give it a range to suit your own arguments is quite petty.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> The idea it could catch a pod that can cross billions of lightyears in a far shorter span than any ship in the SWU is ridiculous, and even then the spacepods are slower than Freeza's Motherships, which can be used just as easily. And given that "no range" has been stated there's no reason to believe that it only works to a specific degree or range and making an attempt to give it a range to suit your own arguments is quite petty.



Yes there is, it's range is what Guldo showed with it on Namek. we can't assume it has larger range if it doesn't show it

Considering the Crusher can cross billions of light years as well, the first part of your statement means nothing. considering it takes far longer for Dragonball ships to reach thier destination (Months to years) than Star Wars (Days to a few weels), you once again prove you know jack shit about Star Wars.

Even worse it shows you know jack about Dragon Ball as well.


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## Es (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> The idea it could catch a pod that can cross billions of lightyears in a far shorter span than any ship in the SWU is ridiculous, and even then the spacepods are slower than Freeza's Motherships, which can be used just as easily. And given that "no range" has been stated there's no reason to believe that it only works to a specific degree or range and making an attempt to give it a range to suit your own arguments is quite petty.



Now your just making stuff up man.


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## Fang (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> The idea it could catch a pod that can cross billions of lightyears in a far shorter span than any ship in the SWU is ridiculous, and even then the spacepods are slower than Freeza's Motherships, which can be used just as easily. And given that "no range" has been stated there's no reason to believe that it only works to a specific degree or range and making an attempt to give it a range to suit your own arguments is quite petty.



Are you throwing in random numbers and just saying random stuff now?


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## Raigen (Apr 29, 2010)

> Yes there is, it's range is what Guldo showed with it on Namek. we can't assume it has larger range if it doesn't show it



You can't assume that's all there is to it to suit your own needs. There was no specific range stated or shown. You cannot assume it's only effective within a certain field. It's completely baseless. And you can't claim a no-limits fallacy because there is a limit, a limit to how long Guldo can actually stop time and how many times he can do it before his energy runs low. He used it at least 4 times before he was winded and each time got shorter because it got harder for him to run around holding his breath.



> Considering the Crusher can cross billions of light years as well, the first part of your statement means nothing



Any ship can given time, however you haven't proven it's actually faster than the pods.


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## Sazabi24 (Apr 29, 2010)

how the fuck is a pod going to ram into the sun crusher if Time is stopped?

TIME FUCKING STOPPED you moron.

Guldo has never shown the ability to choose who moves and who doesn't.

What's Going to do? His ship can't move, nothing can.  Unless he wants to break out of his ship and ki blast the sun crusher (which would result in no damage at all done to the sun crusher), he would just sit there and do nothing at all.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> You can't assume that's all there is to it to suit your own needs. There was no specific range stated or shown. You cannot assume it's only effective within a certain field. It's completely baseless. And you can't claim a no-limits fallacy because there is a limit, a limit to how long Guldo can actually stop time and how many times he can do it before his energy runs low. He used it at least 4 times before he was winded and each time got shorter because it got harder for him to run around holding his breath.
> 
> 
> 
> Any ship can given time, however you haven't proven it's actually faster than the pods.




Neither can you dear boy, it showed only a specific range in the show and as it didn't show any more we can't assume that it has more range.

Answered the second part about time intervals with ships in my edit on my previous post...and Star Wars ships are much faster.


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## Fang (Apr 29, 2010)

What the hell is Raigen talking about, Vegeta was clearly shown moving as was everyone else outside of the area where Guldo was fighting Gohan and Krillan.

Number two, where the fuck is he  getting billion of light years from, the universe of DB is smaller than 90% of fiction, its four fucking galaxies. That average galaxy is between 100,000 to 110,000 light-years in diameter.

Where is this "billions" coming from?

Number three, at best ships in DB are relativistic.


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## Raigen (Apr 29, 2010)

It did not show a specific range. They only focused on the scene at hand. There was no reason to show anything other than the fight itself happening. To do anything else would just be a waste of time and filler garbage. And why're you even bothering to mention the anime?


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## Sazabi24 (Apr 29, 2010)

Again. Time stop is fucking useless.

Nothing except Guldo can move in a time stop, and he can't do shit to the Sun Crusher.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> It did not show a specific range. They only focused on the scene at hand. There was no reason to show anything other than the fight itself happening. To do anything else would just be a waste of time and filler garbage. And why're you even bothering to mention the anime?



That ironic coming from someone who was doing the same a few pages ago.

and once again don't act like Time Stop had an unlimited range, it only stopped time over a short distance and that's that nothing more.


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## Raigen (Apr 29, 2010)

> What the hell is Raigen talking about, Vegeta was clearly shown moving as was everyone else outside of the area where Guldo was fighting Gohan and Krillan.



That was when he did Mind Freeze. Completely different power. 




> Nothing except Guldo can move in a time stop, and he can't do shit to the Sun Crusher.



All it requires is him getting inside, which would not be difficult. Once in, one blast will take the whole thing down from the inside.



> That ironic coming from someone who was doing the same a few pages ago.



Where am I using the anime? Freeza nukes planet Vegeta. That's canon. The Bardock movie is canon and the event was stated repeatedly in the manga.


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## Sazabi24 (Apr 29, 2010)

So Guldo's going to leave his space pod and use his star busting power to break into the sun crusher?

you're delusional.

oh wait you're raigen.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> That was when he did Mind Freeze. Completely different power.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How's he going to get into the Sun Crusher he never showed he can survive in space...and considering nothing short of a fucking Black Hole has anything to it, what makes you think that he's going to somehow wreck it.

Let alone survive the impact of when the Sun Crusher runs straight through his pod.


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## Sazabi24 (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen's Canon says that Guldo is a casual star buster.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Apr 29, 2010)

Just want to point out I'm pretty sure Hellspawn was not asking about when Palpatine showed Precog but when he showed FTL reflexes.

I asked the same and am still waiting for proof of that claim.


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## Sazabi24 (Apr 29, 2010)

A Tout le Monde said:


> Just want to point out I'm pretty sure Hellspawn was not asking about when palpatine showed Precog but when he showed FTL reflexes.
> 
> I asked the same and am still waiting for proof of that claim.



All FTL reflexes come as a result from precog...

I fact should I change my post to "faster than instant" reaction time because it's that's exactly what it is?


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## Es (Apr 29, 2010)

A Tout le Monde said:


> Just want to point out I'm pretty sure Hellspawn was not asking about when Palpatine showed Precog but when he showed FTL reflexes.
> 
> I asked the same and am still waiting for proof of that claim.



Once again, wasn't it in episode III?


----------



## Fang (Apr 29, 2010)

Raigen said:


> That was when he did Mind Freeze. Completely different power.



Not proof.



> All it requires is him getting inside, which would not be difficult. Once in, one blast will take the whole thing down from the inside.



Never happening, and non time stoppers can actually experience and know he stopped time.

So, wrong.


----------



## Sazabi24 (Apr 29, 2010)

It actually wasn't really time stopping as all he did was stop movement in a small area. Time was still passing as people could still think and process visual images.

All he did was freeze the space in space/time.


----------



## Zaelapolopollo (Apr 29, 2010)

Sazabi24 said:


> All FTL reflexes come as a result from precog...



How does predicting an attack will come make you faster than the speed of light? Sith and Jedi precog is just The Force telling them an attack will come from somewhere and so they move to block ot dodge it.

It doesn't make their bodies faster. In fact, it would mean they're slower since they aren't reacting instantly. They are reacting a split second before the attack would even be coming.

The only way they woul dhave faster-than-light reflexes is if they blocked something that was directly shown or stated to be the speed of light or above. 

So what did Palpatine react to that was the speed of light or faster?



Gundam Guy said:


> Once again, wasn't it in episode III?



Not that I'm aware of. Having seen EP3 at least a half-dozen times, the only thing Palpatine does is duel Yoda and Mace. He doesn't even so much as block a blaster bolt.

He could, obviously, since far lesser Jedi and Sith can. But I'm just saying that from what I saw in 3, he has no FTL feat.

Of course I'm hardly infallible. Perhaps I'm forgetting something.


----------



## Es (Apr 29, 2010)

A Tout le Monde said:


> How does predicting an attack will come make you faster than the speed of light? Sith and Jedi precog is just The Force telling them an attack will come from somewhere and so they move to block ot dodge it.
> 
> It doesn't make their bodies faster. In fact, it would mean they're slower since they aren't reacting instantly. They are reacting a split second before the attack would even be coming.
> 
> ...



Anti, what are you talking about? He WTF pwned 3 jedi Council members in a few fucking minutes, and every single one of said member present had enough reflex feats.


----------



## Fang (Apr 29, 2010)

Precognition makes one effectively faster than light to begin with since you'll have the future warning ahead of time of whatever someone does, and since Force-Users in the Dark Nest Trilogy were using it against Chiss Maser weaponry, and turbolasers, and in Coruscant Nights.

And I've already posted that excerpt before, Jax Pavan's body through the Force subconsciously uses a power sword to deflect a finger laser from I-Five, even though he was not aware that his body had already reacted to the attack, before it occurred.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Apr 29, 2010)

Gundam Guy said:


> Anti, what are you talking about? He WTF pwned 3 jedi counsel members in fucking minutes.



Well I would think, in comparison to dueling with the two strongest Jedi of the time, that killing three relatively unknown Jedi Masters wasn't much to talk about here.


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## Fang (Apr 29, 2010)

Tinn, Kolar, and Fitso were highly renown and considered top-tier duelists with a lightsaber in the entire Jedi Order after Yoda, Windu, Dooku, and Jinn. 

They are not nobodies.


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## Es (Apr 29, 2010)

A Tout le Monde said:


> Well I would think, in comparison to dueling with the two strongest Jedi of the time, that killing three relatively unknown Jedi Masters wasn't much to talk about here.



Relatively Unknown? WTF!?  They were members of the Jedi council, the orders best and brightest.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Apr 29, 2010)

I didn't say they were. I put the word relatively in there for a reason.
Because, in comparison to people like Yoda and Mace, they aren't much to talk about.

Anyway,  Jedi and Sith are FTL. I don't care enough to argue. I just asked for a piece of evidence and now I'm done.


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## Fang (Apr 29, 2010)

Only because of precognition and that's only with their reflexes/reaction time.


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Apr 29, 2010)

Hellspawn28 said:


> For the cain rection thing, I thought Freeza hold back on using the Death Ball IIRC?



Well tbh I doubt he hold back 


this guy
"See you in hell" <= Already wanted to destroy the planet in order to kill Goku.

this guy
*Kof! It was not strong enough!* <=Suggest that he did not hold back at all and really wanted to destroy the planet. But his blast was not powreful enough to destroy the planet instantly. 
this guy
Freeza explains that the only reason why Goku was alive was because the blast was not powerful enough to destroy  the planet with a single blast. 

Freeza final form>>>>> first form any day.

Freeza  at that moment maybe had a power level of around 60 million (since he was using the half of his powers and the guide mentions that Freeza at full power had a power level of 120 million ). I do not remember the exact power level of base form Freeza, but keep in mind that the second form had a power level of one million. Freeza stated this and the guides confirm his powerlevel to be around one million. 

So  at that moment he was 60+ time stronger than his base form.

I doubt that in his base form he could use a death ball as powerful as the one he used  to destroy namek.
However  the death ball is an attack designed to destroy planets. So it might not be impossible for him to destroy a planet in his base form.

The thing is that Namek if I am not wrong is bigger than Earth.  So it might be difficult for him to destroy "big" planets.


----------



## Lucifeller (Apr 30, 2010)

Once again:

GULDO DOES NOT FUCKING FREEZE TIME. He freezes MOVEMENT. Proved by how the others, while stopped, could still talk, think and even grimace when he was sharpening that tree with his TK. Also by how Vegeta was still perfectly capable of moving because he wasn't in his direct line of sight for him to freeze.

Guldo is essentially a psionic, and not even on the same class as the fucking Apprentice (lol pulled Stardestroyer off orbit), let alone Palpatine or Vader.

Oh, and by the way? The fact he couldn't stop Vegeta also proves he needs direct line of sight to stop anyone... meaning anybody with enough range or simply not in his line of sight can lolstomp him easily - Vegeta even explicitly referred to him as a worthless weakling with a special power that makes up for him being sinfully weak.


----------



## Gunners (Apr 30, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> _Or_ Darth Vader just force chokes Freeza and his lackies from across the Galaxy. And Darth Vader is much weaker than Palpatine....



I don't think choking would work on Freiza as he doesn't need to breath so the lack of oxygen wouldn't exactly kill him. He'd have to break his neck.



			
				Lucifeller said:
			
		

> GULDO DOES NOT FUCKING FREEZE TIME. He freezes MOVEMENT. Proved by how the others, while stopped, could still talk, think and even grimace when he was sharpening that tree with his TK. Also by how Vegeta was still perfectly capable of moving because he wasn't in his direct line of sight for him to freeze.


If I remember things correctly they were two separate moves. Holding his breath could freeze time, then he had some other ability that could essentially cripple their movements.


----------



## Lucifeller (Apr 30, 2010)

Funny, because the only thing he does in the manga is hold his breath and freeze the goodguys' movements. They are still perfectly aware, just unable to move. If time was frozen, they wouldn't be aware, since time needs to, y'know, flow, for your perception of it passing to work.

Dio Brando's The World actually stops time for people affected by it - they literally don't realize time has elapsed. Guldo freezes his enemies' movements - but they are still aware of time flowing and can at the very least think and talk during it. They are technically helpless during it, but the fact it requires his full attention and apparently can't affect things he doesn't see make it significantly worse than The World's timefreeze.


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## Gunners (Apr 30, 2010)

> Funny, because the only thing he does in the manga is hold his breath and freeze the goodguys' movements. They are still perfectly aware, just unable to move. If time was frozen, they wouldn't be aware, since time needs to, y'know, flow, for your perception of it passing to work.


Link removed

Seemed unaware then. 

Link removed
Link removed

Again moving didn't seem to be an issue there, they were unaware of where he was until they tracked him down. It's also worth mentioning that they pointed out that he froze time again. Not something you would say if he only prevented them from moving. 

Link removed
Link removed
Here we have him running to hide whilst in their line of sight, not something you would do if they were aware of things going on around them, we have him expressing shock that they knew his location which shows his intent. (They found his location due to tracking his Ki). 

He also expresses that he cannot stop time any more. 

Link removed

This attack has different art to it, he is speaking to them ( not holding his breath), and it's the only time in the fight they were shown to be aware of what's going on around them. 

Two different attacks.


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## Lucifeller (Apr 30, 2010)

Hm. Maybe his ability to stop thoughts in addition to movement (after all, the brain's electrical impulses also need to move) depends on how much power he puts in it.

Still, he obviously needs line of sight on them, he was making sure to keep them in eyesight all the time. So how the hell does he deal with being sniped by capital ship fire all the way on the ground, or when a whole lot of TIE fighters are zipping around him? Tridimensional combat is a bitch like this - you simply are going to have blind spots, and when you can't breathe in space, even a single unavoided shot is going to doom you pretty badly.

As for the Suncrusher, good luck getting inside. The thing is airtight enough that even the heat from being in the middle of a fucking supernova and a black hole's event horizon forces can't penetrate it.

And it's not like it has a lock to pick to gain easy access to it - like all Imperial ships, its entrance is remote controlled, meaning unless you have the remote you are boned as you can't get inside it by force. In short, Guldo can't hold it still indefinitely, and nothing in Freeza's forces can damage it, so they pretty much get raped by it alone.


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## Gunners (Apr 30, 2010)

> Hm. Maybe his ability to stop thoughts in addition to movement (after all, the brain's electrical impulses also need to move) depends on how much power he puts in it.
> 
> Still, he obviously needs line of sight on them, he was making sure to keep them in eyesight all the time. So how the hell does he deal with being sniped by capital ship fire all the way on the ground, or when a whole lot of TIE fighters are zipping around him? Tridimensional combat is a bitch like this - you simply are going to have blind spots, and when you can't breathe in space, even a single unavoided shot is going to doom you pretty badly.


The Ki blasts were frozen and it isn't obvious that they need to be in his line of sight when he used the attacks it was in a defensive manner, if they weren't in his line of sight he wouldn't use it as he wouldn't be aware of the danger. 

The rest I don't care about as I don't care or know if he would against X I simply thought you were wrong assuming that his time stopping ability was the same as his ability to stop their movement.


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## paulatreides0 (Apr 30, 2010)

Gunners said:


> I don't think choking would work on Freiza as he doesn't need to breath so the lack of oxygen wouldn't exactly kill him. He'd have to break his neck.



Or crush the skull. Either way, Freeza dies...from across the galaxy.


----------



## HeOf7 (Apr 30, 2010)

Hey are all the planets in star wars the same size? Because their never seems to be changes in gravity form planet to planet.


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## Lucifeller (Apr 30, 2010)

HeOf7 said:


> Hey are all the planets in star wars the same size? Because their never seems to be changes in gravity form planet to planet.



No. Bespin, for instance, is a gas giant, and Cloud City is actually in its upper atmosphere, because falling too far in the planet's gravity well would crush any ship or living being like a tin can in short order. And that's just the most notorious example.

Gravity in Cloud City is enforced artificially anyway.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 30, 2010)

MichaelUN89 said:


> Well tbh I doubt he hold back
> 
> 
> Link removed
> ...



the only thing wrong here is power levels. don't attempt to use them. even the "official" power levels have freeza stating his first transformation has a PL of 1,000,000 only for ssj1 goku to have a PL of 150,000,000? ssj1 goku is 150 times stronger than first transformation? fuck no. the best we can assume without referring to faulty power levels ( even official ones) is make a rough estimate of final form freeza being a couple ( maybe a max of only like 10) times stronger than base. its more consistent than saying he is like 60 times stronger.


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## Shagari (Apr 30, 2010)

TWF said:


> What the hell is Raigen talking about, Vegeta was clearly shown moving as was everyone else outside of the area where Guldo was fighting Gohan and Krillan.
> 
> Number two, where the fuck is he  getting billion of light years from, the universe of DB is smaller than 90% of fiction, its four fucking galaxies. That average galaxy is between 100,000 to 110,000 light-years in diameter.
> 
> ...


No DB ships are FTL. Otherwise, how did Goku's ship get to Namek from Earth (Which is many light years away) in only 6 Earth days??

DB ships are massively FTL, but that doesn't help Frieza win this battle though. He still looses in a massive cumberstomp.


----------



## Lucifeller (Apr 30, 2010)

Shagari said:


> No DB ships are FTL. Otherwise, how did Goku's ship get to Namek from Earth (Which is many light years away) in only 6 Earth days??
> 
> DB ships are massively FTL, but that doesn't help Frieza win this battle though. He still looses in a massive cumberstomp.



Do we even know how far Namek is? Because DBZ Earth is obviously not real life Earth, and for all we know, there could be close proximity solar systems.

...actually, given how it and Dr. Slump are in the same universe, we KNOW there are solar systems close by. Senbee had a rather slow rudimental spaceship go from Earth to a planet around what he said was a green (?!) sun, and they went back and forth in only about two weeks. Note that said spaceship took a couple hours to clear Moon orbit...


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 30, 2010)

Shagari said:


> No DB ships are FTL. Otherwise, how did Goku's ship get to Namek from Earth (Which is many light years away) in only 6 Earth days??
> 
> DB ships are massively FTL, but that doesn't help Frieza win this battle though. He still looses in a massive cumberstomp.



and yet for practically everything else it takes months for them to arrive anywhere else.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> as if he could do that which i believe he won't be able to



and your basis for this is what?


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## paulatreides0 (May 1, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and your basis for this is what?



None, he's an idiot.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (May 1, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> None, he's an idiot.



this is the first time he has the balls to actually comment back though

usually he just spouts off bullshit then runs away


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## Tsunayoshi Sawada (May 1, 2010)

Sorry if this has been said already but is mind rape a factor?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> Are you people fucin crackheads? Freeza destroyed planet vegeta with a blast from 1 finger. Freeza survived namek getting blown up while he was cut in half almost dead. This is a slaughter




1, that feat contradicts his showings in a much more powerful state if Freiza could barely level namek..and could only cause a chain reaction him one shotting vageta is spider man vs fire lord level bullshit
2, man will eat a supernova to the face more then likely



keikokusama said:


> Freeza has PK too, frieza has access to other psycho barries, so as far as shields go. frieza does have his own psycho powers...a bit crude, though
> ( ex killing krillin was with his mind)



you can prove their good enough to defend against sidy?


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## paulatreides0 (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> Are you people fucin crackheads? Freeza destroyed planet vegeta with a blast from 1 finger.


Ignoring the fact that that contradicts his other planet busting feat in a _much_ more powerful form, how exactly is he supposed to use that against Palps or Vader?

Vader can crush his skull in from across the Galaxy.

Palps can mindrape him at the speed of _thought_. Speed of Thought>>>>>Freeza's speed



keikokusama said:


> Freeza survived namek getting blown up while he was cut in half almost dead. This is a slaughter


Palpatine has survived _dying._ Not a half-assed death, actually _dying._ If Freeza _does_ kill him, then all Palps has to do is just take over his body, and end of story.



keikokusama said:


> Freeza has PK too frieza has access to other psycho barries, so as far as shields go. frieza does have his own psycho powers...a bit crude, though
> ( ex killing krillin was with his mind)


Siddy can casually _destroy_ your mind. What are these shields going to do against one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history who can play with minds like its nothing??

And hell, why are we still arguing about Palps, he won't even need to show. Either Vader solos, or the Sun Crusher solos.


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## Tranquil Fury (May 1, 2010)

While I agree Frieza and co. get horribly raped due to numbers, superior tech and H4X that will render his powers useless.



> the only thing wrong here is power levels. don't attempt to use them. even the "official" power levels have freeza stating his first transformation has a PL of 1,000,000 only for ssj1 goku to have a PL of 150,000,000? ssj1 goku is 150 times stronger than first transformation? fuck no. the best we can assume without referring to faulty power levels ( even official ones) is make a rough estimate of final form freeza being a couple ( maybe a max of only like 10) times stronger than base. its more consistent than saying he is like 60 times stronger



Uh no, in DBZ they introduced something that is unofficially called Zenkai, a Saiyan when healing from near death gets stronger. Now the number is plot based obviously so yeah. Frieza himself admitted his first transformation doubled his power and I remember him powering up again in that form. SSJ gives a 50 times increase in power. Regardless the correlation between increase in power level and stats is unknown and need not be the same always.

Frieza destroying planet vegeta in Bardock special is not canon and one panel showing Frieza kill Bardock with narration is not proof. DB fanboys be damned if Goku and Vegeta need their strongest attacks to be considered planet busters for Earth alone despite being stronger than base Frieza by over a 150 times. Or the increase in stats is so small it just seems bigger due to Shonen tropes.


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## Takuza (May 1, 2010)

We don't know how big Namek was though. It was likely much bigger than Earth (based on travel times)


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## The Immortal WatchDog (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> I'm unpredictable person......



your certainly something



keikokusama said:


> Please stop you kids are making yourself look ridiculous, this is not even a fight




you have yet to prove your points nor come back with a decent counter argument..your right theres a kid here making himself look silly

its not one of us


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## paulatreides0 (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> Please stop you kids are making yourself look ridiculous, this is not even a fight



No, Watchdog, hear him out. He _actually_ has a good point. I mean, how is GE supposed to _lose_ with these conditions?!?!

Vader can literally solo, as can Palpatine.


----------



## paulatreides0 (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> thinking faster doesn’t mean you have the body to move equal to it. It’s a retarded thing to think so.



Your point? He can mindrape at the speed of thought. He doesn't need to actually _do_ anything, just _think_ it. And it doesn't help that both Vader _and_ Palpatine can just crush his and all his cronies' skulls in..._from across the galaxy._

And you _still_ haven't shown any proof that Freeza can stop Palpatine from taking over his body or that Freeza can stop Palps from casually mind raping him.


----------



## Tsunayoshi Sawada (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> I thought this was a joke. Frieza is thousands of times faster, before palpatine can think his head is PAWNCHED off.


How is Frieza faster the the speed of thought? Oh yeah, he isn't. There is no way Frieza can get to Palp if hes halfway around the Galaxy mindraping him. 


keikokusama said:


> a funny thing to say....


Whats funny, it's true.


----------



## paulatreides0 (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> a funny thing to say....



So Freeza is so massively FTL he can cross the entire galaxy before 



keikokusama said:


> I thought this was a joke. Frieza is thousands of times faster, before palpatine can think his head is PAWNCHED off.


Your point being??? Freeza is not faster than thought. Moreover, he's not faster than thoughts belonging to someone with _precog_.

"You must spread reputation before negging keikokusama again"


----------



## Tsunayoshi Sawada (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> I repeat again, thinking faster doesn?t mean you have the body to move equal to it. It?s a retarded thing to think so.
> 
> Simple reasoning here:
> 
> ...



Thinking has nothing to do with physically moving. All Palp has to do is stand/sit and mind rape Frieza without lifting so much as a finger.

Not only can Palp solo with just mind rape but so can Vader.


----------



## Watchman (May 1, 2010)

Proof of Frieza's speed, if you please? He's got to be MASSIVELY faster than light to get across the galaxy and kill Palpatine before he finishes a thought.


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## paulatreides0 (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> I repeat again, thinking faster doesn’t mean you have the body to move equal to it. It’s a retarded thing to think so.


But you don't need to do move _anything_ to mindrape. All you need to do is think it, and boom.



keikokusama said:


> I think it would be a bit sad if palps dies. I could see the children crying there eyes out in the theater, and then at the end have a montage for palps...Oh the sadness there would be....LOL


If Palp _does_ die, which he won't, he just takes over Freeza's body...

And I've still yet to hear how Freeza will cover the length of an entire galaxy to stop the weaker apprentice of Palpatine who can Force Choke across such distances. Same for Palps.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> I thought this was a joke. Frieza is thousands of times faster, before palpatine can think his head is PAWNCHED off.



so this is you conceded that you have virtually no idea what your talking about then?

namely Frieza has no speed feats to suggest he can blitz palpy


----------



## paulatreides0 (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> Thinking fast for a being that rely on thinking to attack, not the rest of the body, is virtually his attack speed.


Thanks for conceding.



keikokusama said:


> Lol..to be honest I doubt Frieza would give him any time at all to formulate a plan.



What plan?? He just literally thinks mind rape, and Freeza dies. And lol, Mach 500, poor Freeza can't keep up with a Star Destroyer.


----------



## Tsunayoshi Sawada (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> Thinking fast for a being that rely on thinking to attack, not the rest of the body, is virtually his attack speed.
> 
> palps still hasn?t the reaction speed to win this. Please proove he can react faster to mach 500 or so.
> 
> ...



Your stupidity ceases to amaze me. I thought there were only tards like you on Viz.

Again, your reaction speed is different from the speed of which you think.

Reaction speed is the speed at which you can *react*, physically, to physical movement.

Speed of thought has nothing to do with speed, reaction speed, etc, only at which you *think*.


----------



## Tsunayoshi Sawada (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> I’d probably give this to Frieza on any occasion.
> 
> Maybe that’s what kids need. Too see how life can be. LOL I can see a lot of kids scarred for life. I don’t know why, but it makes me lol.



Maybe it's because of your lack of maturity and the fact that you have down syndrome....


----------



## Tsunayoshi Sawada (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> Dear god those were my first thoughts when i went through the first page of this thread. The amount of stupidity here is amazing include this one



Okay, troll.

Like to back that spam up with some feats that Frieza is massively FTL? I didn't think so.


----------



## paulatreides0 (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> Dear god those were my first thoughts when i went through the first page of this thread.* The amount of stupidity here is amazing include this one*



Wow...you just insulted your own post and called yourself an idiot. I'm laughing so hard I'm crying.

Anywho, unless we all want an old fashioned negstorm directed at keiko (/beg), I say we are done here. Palps/Vader wins.


----------



## Tsunayoshi Sawada (May 1, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Wow...you just insulted your own post and called yourself an idiot. I'm laughing so hard I'm crying.
> 
> Anywho, unless we all want an old fashioned negstorm directed at keiko (/beg), I say we are done here. Palps/Vader wins.



Why don't we celebrate with a good 'ol neg fest?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> I’d probably give this to Frieza on any occasion. [



that's because your not capable of objectivity 



keikokusama said:


> Maybe that’s what kids need. Too see how life can be. LOL I can see a lot of kids scarred for life. I don’t know why, but it makes me lol.



You realize that...this makes you come off like a massively immaturefool right?

that your actually so completely unable to...refute or even argue that all you can do..is talk out of your rear end?

now why don;t you shut your fucking mouth...stop the cute remarks..and actually debate for once in your freaking miserable career here in the OBD
BACK UP YOUR ARGUMENT WITH ACTUAL EVIDENCE ..OR GO HOME!!


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## kokodeshide (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> Dear god those were my first thoughts when i went through the first page of this thread. The amount of stupidity here is amazing include this one



Every time you post my eyes bleed.

You have backed up basically none of of your arguments.

Im surprised OBDers are arguing with you.



Hey, does Keikokusama's frieza beat jplaya's itachi?


----------



## paulatreides0 (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> I don't like to give longggggg  details and completeeeeee analyzes because it's not my style.


Read: I am incompetent. Then what is even the point then? If you're going to post you're so called "facts" and not provide proof?


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## Tranquil Fury (May 1, 2010)

This is getting out of hand. Look, Frieza will not cover an entire galaxy before someone can think and mindrape across such ranges. Killing Sidious just makes it worse, he'll take over a body namely Friezas. A million planets>>>>Some 79 planets and Super weapons that blow up Suns>>>>>Frieza+His men combined.



> An opinions and a statement can differ each person. They have their own style to speak off their mind



No in a debate or argument you give proof and logical reasoning. If you try this in a Court of law they'd laugh at you and resulting to insults when people call you out on your claims that are not backed up is not tolerable as per Forum rules. Give proof or don't post here.


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## kokodeshide (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> Then don't read it.The one who have the red bar don't know his place.
> 
> I don't care about the rep's bar nor will respond it either. For me, it proves none. It's subjective



I actually ask for the red rep. So learn the facts before you spew nonsense.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> LOL...an amateur like you who is still a teen speak something ridiculous.




you know son...I'm actually 23 considering your what 13(you certainly act this age)? ya probably shouldn't speak down to me little boy 



keikokusama said:


> I know You before i joined this forum because i often see your posts.



is your stalker confession supposed to intimidate me?



keikokusama said:


> My career ? who are you anyway huh ? that won't stop me from speak off my mind.



considering your actually breaking the rules by not backing up your evidence...




keikokusama said:


> What kind of back up huh ? don't lecture me as i you knew everything that i believe you won't.



what...paranoid ranting is this? please speak coherently 




keikokusama said:


> you can't force me.



 ...dude..are you alright? like..seriously..man..are you..umm okay>?


keikokusama said:


> I said what i want to say and i give my analysis.




you didn't give an analysis at all you blabbered and left 



keikokusama said:


> ]The One who don't understands is you.



wait a minute here...you actually have to back up your claims with evidence that's in the rules..do you not get that?



keikokusama said:


> I believe your back up are still doubtful.



why..you haven't actually been able to adress how Freiza can attack him...when the guys a hundred or so thousand light years away and can make his brain..bleed and explode...or fuck that even cause force storms in his body


keikokusama said:


> An opinions and a statement can differ each person. They have their own style to speak off their mind.



the problem is..on the OBD opinions..don;t matter what you personally believe what any one believes is not relevent at all

the only thing that matters is facts evidence..and feats and how we use them to get to the truth...do you understand this?

if the answer is Yes then your willingly and knowingly breaking the rules 

oh and by the way...the next time you feel the need to condensend a person and call them a teen or what ever

heed the advice of this poster


----------



## Tranquil Fury (May 1, 2010)

Palpatine does not have to be in the battlefield, his character is that of a manipulative mastermind who'll use battle meditation or do something behind the scenes. He rarely fights. He's doing this in the original Starwars Trilogy only fighting in episode 6 and does it in the prequel Trilogy only fighting in episode 3.

He'd most likely mindrape across a Galaxy while his army does the fighting.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (May 1, 2010)

Power level has nothing to do with the mind and Sidious has done insane things with his Psychic powers like block the precog of the Jedi in the prequel Trilogy and open wormholes called Force Storm amongst others. Frieza has strong mental abilities but Sidious is stronger and Frieza has never shown resistence to mindrape.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (May 1, 2010)

keikokusama said:


> FACEPALM. This apply to you also, don't you realize it KIDZ. You are 23 that's good but still not enough. I'm not arrogant but i don't playing nice with someone who attack my personality. 13 ? LOL, i believe you trust my profile so highly.




so basically your admitting your breaking the rules..trolling...and can't actually explain your reasoning?

if all you can do is call people children...your committing more then one bannable offense per post, if you still can;t understand that your basically...not doing what your supposed to be doing theres no hopefor you

oh and for the record your massively arrogant...to the point of it being a pathological problem that needs treatment...you can't even hack it on a debate forum with out degenerating into..a rage

now i'll ask you again..by the rules of the forum provide evidence for why freiza wins


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## kokodeshide (May 1, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> so basically your admitting your breaking the rules..trolling...and can't actually explain your reasoning?
> 
> if all you can do is call people children...your committing more then one bannable offense per post, if you still can;t understand that your basically...not doing what your supposed to be doing theres no hopefor you
> 
> ...



I don't think he is worth your, or anyones, time.


----------



## kokodeshide (May 1, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> it's possible..his posting style and arrogance..he's like a living caricature of a weeboo man



That might be the most true statement i have ever heard.


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## Fang (May 1, 2010)

I want to seriously know how anyone objectively thinks Freeza has any chance against a high level telepath when it comes to psychic or mental defenses and power.


----------



## Bart (May 1, 2010)

TWF said:


> I want to seriously know how anyone objectively thinks Freeza has any chance against a high level telepath when it comes to psychic or mental defenses and power.



Exactly.

*Freeza:* You wanna buy some death sticks? 
[Palpatine uses mind trick]
*Palpatine:* You don't want to sell me death sticks. 
*Freeza:* I don't want to sell you death sticks. 
*Palpatine:* You want to go home and rethink your life. 
*Freeza:* I want to go home and rethink my life.


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## Tranquil Fury (May 1, 2010)

Sidious is'nt Obi-Wan Kenobi so he'd do much worse.


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## Darth Nihilus (May 1, 2010)

It's more of you want me to shove you into a storm of Force Lightning other than petty death sticks.


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## Darth Nihilus (May 1, 2010)

I never knew that Midi-Chlorians could be measured with an alien scouter


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## Shoddragon (May 1, 2010)

palpatine could quite literally solo all of DBZ simply by him doing this:

Palpatine: you want to kill yourself.

Freeza: I want to kill myself * takes off his own head*.

and since he can apparently do it to millions of people at once, I don't see the problem.


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## Cooler (May 1, 2010)

Why did he not do that to the rebellion? ^^^


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## Shoddragon (May 1, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Why did he not do that to the rebellion? ^^^



someone explained it in this thread somewhere.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (May 1, 2010)

...keiko Freiza cannot measure microscopic organsim..as though it where a PL count

also..aside from decent TK feats..what mental defenses does freiza posses?

Freiza lacking the ability to move ftl..will also..not be able to reach siddy


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## Tranquil Fury (May 1, 2010)

This was asked by the same user so I'll quote the answer:



> He didn't mindfuck the entire rebel fleet because he was confident that the Death Star would take care of them, which is the same reason he didn't just use any of his other nasty little abilites


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## Cooler (May 1, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> This was asked by the same user so I'll quote the answer:



I'm not just referring to the battle above Endor, I mean from the start of the Rebellion why didn't wipe them out if his powers are galaxy wide? 

Even the greatest Jedi were able to be overwhelmed by large groups of battle droids etc...Yoda appeared to have to put in some effort to move large objects. I was under the impression Yoda was extremely powerful. Now Sidious is more powerful but the Movies never implied his powers were were greater but such a massive scale.


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## Id (May 1, 2010)

Teh Shit Storm. Closing this for a minute.


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## Id (May 1, 2010)

Ok I am reopening this. Please lay off from flaming, I can understand addressing an argument. But insulting a member isn?t allowed, and calling a member an idiot could get you banned. 

*glares at: HeOf7, Gundam Guy,  paulatreides0, Cooler, and Mandom.


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## Fang (May 1, 2010)

Cooler said:


> I'm not just referring to the battle above Endor, I mean from the start of the Rebellion why didn't wipe them out if his powers are galaxy wide?



What the hell does galaxy wide mean? Palpatine engineered a psychic black out on long-range prescience and clairvoyance of the entire Jedi Order for almost four decades, and this is stated since the end of Episode 1 by Yoda himself at Jinn's funeral pyre.



> Even the greatest Jedi were able to be overwhelmed by large groups of battle droids etc...



No, they were not.



> Yoda appeared to have to put in some effort to move large objects. I was under the impression Yoda was extremely powerful. Now Sidious is more powerful but the Movies never implied his powers were were greater but such a massive scale.



Yoda putting a bit of effort is not the way you can poison and twist the context when he was TKing Federation landers.

Your wrong on both accounts, are you inventing your own explanation or do you actually have a clue on what your trying to imply? Because I already you have no idea how continuity works for Star Wars canon.


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 1, 2010)

TWF said:


> No, they were not.



Besides, I'm pretty sure only the mediocre or shitty Jedi got killed off

The notable ones like Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Obi-Wan, and some others managed to stay alive obviously


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## paulatreides0 (May 1, 2010)

Very few Jedi that were actually skilled warriors were actually killed by droids, regardless of how many there were. Hell, Jedi were known to be able to turn the course of battles and could take on entire platoons of droids...pretty much single handedly...and win.....


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## Tranquil Fury (May 1, 2010)

*points to Mace Windu in Clone Wars using nothing but his fists*


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## Emperor Joker (May 1, 2010)

Tsunayoshi Sawada said:


> Sorry if this has been said already but is mind rape a factor?



Yes, as it's  viable part of Palpatine's mindset.



Cooler said:


> I'm not just referring to the battle above Endor, I mean from the start of the Rebellion why didn't wipe them out if his powers are galaxy wide?
> 
> Even the greatest Jedi were able to be overwhelmed by large groups of battle droids etc...Yoda appeared to have to put in some effort to move large objects. I was under the impression Yoda was extremely powerful. Now Sidious is more powerful but the Movies never implied his powers were were greater but such a massive scale.



Considering only the most inexperienced of jedi would be overwhelmed by battle droids, you're statement really isn't true

Yoda *IS* extremely powerful you don't make Grand Master by being weak, Palpatine was just more so than him 

Also why would Palpatine really put that much effort into stomping the Rebellion, when he has an entire fleet to do that for him as well as his apprentice and several Dark Side Adepts and his personal Assassin.


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## Darth Nihilus (May 1, 2010)

Ah, my bad


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## Endless Mike (May 1, 2010)

How is that relevant to this thread?


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## Darth Nihilus (May 1, 2010)

Wrong thread


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## Nikushimi (May 1, 2010)

Frieza can actually fly through space while dropping planet-busters that put the Death Star to shame, he motherfucking solos.


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## Endless Mike (May 1, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> Frieza can actually fly through space while dropping planet-busters that put the Death Star to shame, he motherfucking solos.



He's somehow going to take out every planet in the galaxy when it would take him years just to reach a single one? Furthermore he wouldn't even know where he was going. He gets mindraped.


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## Darth Nihilus (May 1, 2010)

TC never did specify a stage of battle


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## Nikushimi (May 1, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> He's somehow going to take out every planet in the galaxy when it would take him years just to reach a single one? Furthermore he wouldn't even know where he was going. He gets mindraped.



Frieza's ship is capable of interstellar travel in a matter of days/months, just like the Saiyan pods. He'd only need to get out of it to fight.

Also, Palpatine is that old fart Vader threw down the well and Samuel L. Jackson almost killed. Not sure how he's supposed to do dick to a casual planet-buster.


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## kokodeshide (May 1, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> Frieza's ship is capable of interstellar travel in a matter of days/months, just like the Saiyan pods. He'd only need to get out of it to fight.
> 
> Also, Palpatine is that old fart Vader threw down the well and Samuel L. Jackson almost killed. Not sure how he's supposed to do dick to a casual planet-buster.



i believe they are talking about the book/comic version of star wars which is vastly more impressive than the movie counterparts.


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## Punpun (May 1, 2010)

Just read this thread and you will know how ...


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## Nikushimi (May 1, 2010)

kokodeshide said:


> i believe they are talking about the book/comic version of star wars which is vastly more impressive than the movie counterparts.



Oh that fanfic bullshit?

Yeah no, I'm a purist, so I go with what was in the original material. Palpatine is peak-old-guy-level.



Mandom said:


> Just read this thread and you will know how ...



17 pages of Star Wank? No thanks.

I've seen the movies. If killing him is as simple as picking him up and dropping him down a hole then Frieza should stomp.


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## Fang (May 1, 2010)

Oh lord look whose in this thread now.


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## Nikushimi (May 1, 2010)

TWF said:


> Oh lord look whose in this thread now.



Mr. Anderson,

surprised to see me? :ho


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## Fang (May 1, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> Oh that fanfic bullshit?
> 
> Yeah no, I'm a purist, so I go with what was in the original material. Palpatine is peak-old-guy-level.



Explain why in the season 2 finale episodes specific EU trademarks like the Hydian Way was mentioned in a series thats completely directed and written and storyboarded by Lucas?

Uh oh.



> I've seen the movies. If killing him is as simple as picking him up and dropping him down a hole then Frieza should stomp.



lol


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## Emperor Joker (May 1, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> Oh that fanfic bullshit?
> 
> Yeah no, I'm a purist, so I go with what was in the original material. Palpatine is peak-old-guy-level.
> 
> ...



He got dropped down a shaft that led to the reactor core of the fucking Death Star, Freeza would be dead too if that happened to him.


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## Nikushimi (May 1, 2010)

TWF said:


> Explain why in the season 2 finale episodes specific EU trademarks like the Hydian Way was mentioned in a series thats completely directed and written and storyboarded by Lucas?
> 
> Uh oh.



The original creator (or possibly another co-creator/writer) borrowed an idea, or decided to acknowledge one. Simple.

That still says nothing about the continuity of powerscaling between the original movies and all that ancillary stuff.



> lol



I know what you're thinking: "Frieza just has to find a hole."

Rest assured, I'm working very hard on a comeback that will implement Gimmy from TTGL in that equation. 



			
				Emperor Joker said:
			
		

> He got dropped down a shaft that led to the reactor core of the fucking Death Star, Freeza would be dead too if that happened to him.



Not only can Frieza fly to avoid that (not to mention he would break Vader's asthmatic ass in half like a twig), but the dude was split in half at the waist, missing an arm, and severely beaten and he _*still*_ survived when Namek 'sploded. How is getting hurled into the Death Star's reactor supposed to hurt Frieza when he's in peak shape?


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## paulatreides0 (May 1, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> Frieza's ship is capable of interstellar travel in a matter of days/months, just like the Saiyan pods. He'd only need to get out of it to fight.


Wow...Freeza's ship and those pods are slow. I mean, have you seen what your average Star Destroyer can do??



Nikushimi said:


> Oh that fanfic bullshit?


You mean the stuff that George Lucas frequently helps with, has an actual role in, and/or accepts whole heartedly? Fanfic? Hahaha. Word of God says it's as canon as his films unless he says otherwise.



Nikushimi said:


> Yeah no, I'm a purist, so I go with what was in the original material. Palpatine is peak-old-guy-level.


George Lucas accepts the vast majority of EU.

George Lucas' Opinion>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yours



Nikushimi said:


> I've seen the movies. If killing him is as simple as picking him up and dropping him down a hole then Frieza should stomp.


Freeza gets force lifted and throw into the reactor...from across the galaxy...

Or he just gets mindraped/skull crushed in/body torn to pieces from across the galaxy.



Nikushimi said:


> Not only can Frieza fly to avoid that (not to mention he would break Vader's asthmatic ass in half like piece of rusty corrugated tin), but the dude was split in half at the waist, missing an arm, and severely beaten and he _*still*_ survived when Namek 'sploded. How is getting hurled into the Death Star's reactor supposed to hurt Frieza when he's in peak shape?


Lolwhat? A Star Destroyer's Reactor is equivalent to a small star's, the Death Star's was _massively_ larger, by whole orders of magnitude. Frieza would get incinerated a few hundred miles from the reactor's core.


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## Cooler (May 1, 2010)

TWF said:


> What the hell does galaxy wide mean? Palpatine engineered a psychic black out on long-range prescience and clairvoyance of the entire Jedi Order for almost four decades, and this is stated since the end of Episode 1 by Yoda himself at Jinn's funeral pyre.



Thats completely different to mindfucking millions of people. Jedi like Obi-Wan Kenobi can casually use mind tricks on weak minds but not without some concentrate and the Emperor is a million times more powerful? The wank is thread is incredible.



> No, they were not.



Yeah they were...the clear implication of 'Attack of the Clones' was that the Jedi couldn't hope to face the hordes of Droids alone.



> Yoda putting a bit of effort is not the way you can poison and twist the context when he was TKing Federation landers.



Yet in the Movies he has difficulty with ALOT less. 

Movie canon is the highest order of canon.



> Your wrong on both accounts, are you inventing your own explanation or do you actually have a clue on what your trying to imply? Because I already you have no idea how continuity works for Star Wars canon.



Nah mate don't think so. 

The Movies are the highest canon, and the Jedi and Sith in them are clearly no where near the levels the EU paints them at.


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## Nikushimi (May 1, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Wow...Freeza's ship and those pods are slow. I mean, have you seen what your average Star Destroyer can do??



I recall what some of the Star Wars ships were able to do. Yeah, they're faster, but that's not going to save them.



> You mean the stuff that George Lucas frequently helps with, has an actual role in, and/or accepts whole heartedly? Fanfic? Hahaha. Word of God says it's as canon as his films unless he says otherwise.



A bunch of retcons are still non-canon regardless of whether or not the creator likes or agrees with them. They weren't in the movies, they weren't a part of their continuity, so there's no reason to try to draw any sort of conflation between the two.



> George Lucas accepts the vast majority of EU.
> 
> George Lucas' Opinion>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yours



That's fine that he accepts it, but that still doesn't make it a part of the original canon.



> Freeza gets force lifted and throw into the reactor...from across the galaxy...



Frieza can fly and has telekinesis. If he starts floating he's just going to cancel it out or oppose it.



> Or he just gets mindraped/skull crushed in/body torn to pieces from across the galaxy.



Palpatine doesn't have that kind of power, otherwise he would've just done it to Windu, Luke, and Vader.



> Lolwhat? A Star Destroyer's Reactor is equivalent to a small star's, the Death Star's was _massively_ larger, by whole orders of magnitude. Frieza would get incinerated a few hundred miles from the reactor's core.



If there was even a grain of truth to that, Vader, Luke, and Papsmear would've been incinerated just by being near the opening. The Death Star is only the size of a planet, so how could it possibly have a core "whole orders of magnitude" larger than a star's? Unless we're talking about one friend of a planet compared to like a dwarf star... But then, that really isn't saying anything; you might as well just compare its size to that of a planet's core and save yourself the trouble of downsizing a star for convenience.

And the size of its core says nothing about its intensity, either, actually.


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## Fang (May 1, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> The original creator (or possibly another co-creator/writer) borrowed an idea, or decided to acknowledge one. Simple.



Utterly wrong.



> That still says nothing about the continuity of powerscaling between the original movies and all that ancillary stuff.



Prove it, Lucas is the one who made Stover do a specific version of Windu vs Sidious and Anakin vs Obi-Wan in the novel.




> Not only can Frieza fly to avoid that (not to mention he would break Vader's asthmatic ass in half like a twig), but the dude was split in half at the waist, missing an arm, and severely beaten and he _*still*_ survived when Namek 'sploded. How is getting hurled into the Death Star's reactor supposed to hurt Frieza when he's in peak shape?



Freeza has no idea where the fuck anything is in the GFFA.


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 1, 2010)

attack of the zombie arguments


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## Fang (May 1, 2010)

I like how he says the author who created the series and the guy who says what is or is not a single continuity (EU + Films = Continuity) says the series creators are wrong.

OBD still bring the laughs.


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## Nikushimi (May 1, 2010)

TWF said:


> Utterly wrong.



HURR DURR, OKAY.

It changes nothing. What's actually seen in the original Star Wars movies...is nowhere near as grandiose or exaggerated as what you're trying to sell me.



> Prove it, Lucas is the one who made Stover do a specific version of Windu vs Sidious and Anakin vs Obi-Wan in the novel.



Can you prove for a fact that he went out of his way and arbitrated their feats?



> Freeza has no idea where the fuck anything is in the GFFA.



I'm sure the technology in his ship can help him find his way around. Any details can be extracted along the way by anyone they let live long enough to tell them.

Or you know, Frieza can just wait and go where the wind takes him. The dude like doesn't age.


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## Fang (May 1, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> HURR DURR, OKAY.
> 
> It changes nothing. What's actually seen in the original Star Wars movies...is nowhere near as grandiose or exaggerated as what you're trying to sell me.



So what? 



> Can you prove for a fact that he went out of his way and arbitrated their feats?



Why would I do that when you just said Leland Chee and George Lucas have nothing to do with the canon statuses of their own series?

Are you trolling? Yeah I'm sure of it.



> I'm sure the technology in his ship can help him find his way around. Any details can be extracted along the way by anyone they let live long enough to tell them.



Prove it's even relativistic.



> Or you know, Frieza can just wait and go where the wind takes him. The dude like doesn't age.



I guess the point of finding the Dragon Balls to become immortal was just a minor plot hole.

Man this is fun.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 1, 2010)

Stover's remark about the ROTS novel:



> Though I did not personally watch him do it, I received from LFL a Word document of Revenge of the Sith with Mr Lucas' edits, which was distinct from the edits I'd already gotten from Sue Rostoni and Howard Roffman and the rest of the LFL crew, and this document was edited in such a detailed fashion that even individual words had been struck off and his preferred replacements inserted, as well as some passages wholly excised and some dialogue replaced with the dialogue from the screenplay. If that's not line-editing, I don't know what is.
> 
> What's in that book is there because Mr. Lucas wanted it to be there. What's not in that book is not there because Mr. Lucas wanted it gone.
> 
> Period.



anyway, I can't be bothered with rotting, decaying 'arguments' that I've seen and responded to so many times


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (May 1, 2010)

I'll just toss this in here cooler..and any one saying Yoda was weak...in one EU comic..he actually managed to rip a dark jedis soul out...in so far as saying he wasn't that powerful
 and he performed this feat..IIRC while still only a jedi knight

he should be far far more powerful now

then we got that moment where Dooku taunted him and Yoda kinda..let him see..what a darth yoda would look like and dooku basically crapped his pants in raw terror 

Sidious was also in a decent body...powerful enough that the power coming off him when he battled Luke I believe shown through out..the solar system and echoed in the force across the SWG (TWF can correct me if I'm wrong here)

force users be serious buisiness for serious folk in the EU


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## Fang (May 1, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Stover's remark about the ROTS novel:
> 
> 
> 
> anyway, I can't be bothered with rotting, decaying 'arguments' that I've seen and responded to so many times



Its not 1987 again is it?


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 1, 2010)

I feel the time warp already man 

oh yeah, source for that quote


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## Nikushimi (May 1, 2010)

TWF said:


> So what?



So I've seen the Star Wars movies. I've seen all the characters fight it out. They are not on a high enough level to put so much as a scratch on Frieza.

Yet because another author or two went and wrote a bunch of smack about them pulling off insane feats, this is now supposed to be a part of the original canon and coherent with that continuity? Bull.

If somebody makes a series about a bunch of peak humans with light dildoes in space and then another guy goes and writes a spin-off where they fly around force-crushing stars or some bullshit, it's incoherent with the original canon. You can't just move the goal post and ignore its previous placement.



> Why would I do that when you just said Leland Chee and George Lucas have nothing to do with the canon statuses of their own series?
> 
> Are you trolling? Yeah I'm sure of it.



Author decides what is canon while the work is in progress, not after the fact. And even the author can't make canon that which is contradictory to or incoherent with their work prior.

That would be like Kishimoto finishing Naruto and then saying ten years later "Yeah, all those game Ougis are canon, so Itachi can city-bust with Amaterasu and Shodai has tree nukes." Or Toriyama suddenly coming out and saying "Broly's galaxy-busting feat was canon. Powerscale away!"

If anything's trolling, THAT is.



> Prove it's even relativistic.



I can't prove it anymore than you can disprove it. DB Earth is not our Earth and the distances between it and other planets are never quantified. It's simply not known.



> I guess the point of finding the Dragon Balls to become immortal was just a minor plot hole.
> 
> Man this is fun.



He's not immortal, that doesn't mean he doesn't live hella-long. He was visibly the same when he blew up Planet Vegeta as when he fought Goku.


----------



## Es (May 1, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> A bunch of retcons are still non-canon regardless of whether or not the creator likes or agrees with them. They weren't in the movies, they weren't a part of their continuity, so there's no reason to try to draw any sort of conflation between the two.
> *How is it non cannon when Lucas has people in charge to watch over it and make sure it doesn't conflict with the movies?*
> 
> 
> ...





Nikushimi said:


> So I've seen the Star Wars movies. I've seen all the characters fight it out. They are not on a high enough level to put so much as a scratch on Frieza.
> Yet because another author or two went and wrote a bunch of smack about them pulling off insane feats, this is now supposed to be a part of the original canon and coherent with that continuity? Bull.
> 
> 
> ...




My reply is in bold.


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## Fang (May 1, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> So I've seen the Star Wars movies. I've seen all the characters fight it out. They are not on a high enough level to put so much as a scratch on Frieza.



So you have nothing to disprove the canon or continuity of EU, okay.



> Yet because another author or two went and wrote a bunch of smack about them pulling off insane feats, this is now supposed to be a part of the original canon and coherent with that continuity? Bull.



Wrong.



> If somebody makes a series about a bunch of peak humans with light dildoes in space and then another guy goes and writes a spin-off where they fly around force-crushing stars or some bullshit, it's incoherent with the original canon. You can't just move the goal post and ignore its previous placement.



First movie, major fucking point by Vader says the power to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

Game over. 



> Author decides what is canon while the work is in progress, not after the fact.



Wrong.



> And even the author can't make canon that which is contradictory to or incoherent with their work prior.



Wrong. 



> That would be like Kishimoto finishing Naruto and then saying ten years later "Yeah, all those game Ougis are canon, so Itachi can city-bust with Amaterasu and Shodai has tree nukes." Or Toriyama suddenly coming out and saying "Broly's galaxy-busting feat was canon. Powerscale away!"
> 
> If anything's trolling, THAT is.



Complete non sequiter. 



> I can't prove it anymore than you can disprove it. DB Earth is not our Earth and the distances between it and other planets are never quantified. It's simply not known.



Stop trying to shift the burden of proof. Show ships in Dragon Ball covering quantifiable distances that put it beyond low relativistic speeds.

Now.



> He's not immortal, that doesn't mean he doesn't live hella-long. He was visibly the same when he blew up Planet Vegeta as when he fought Goku.



He uses his first form to conserve energy, you have no idea how that might affect his real physiology at all.


----------



## Nikushimi (May 1, 2010)

Gundam Guy said:


> My reply is in bold.



Authors don't just arbitrarily get to go back and re-do the past like it never happened. The original continuity in its entirety, before Lucas OK'd the changes, is what's originally canon.

In my ET, the policemen have guns damn it. 



TWF said:


> So you have nothing to disprove the canon or continuity of EU, okay.



It's not canon, simple as.



> Wrong.



Nice rebuttle.



> First movie, major fucking point by Vader says the power to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
> 
> Game over.



The Force is a power that exists across the cosmos in pretty much fucking _everybody_. Says nothing of his or anyone else's ability to harness it. If Luke's training with Yoda is any indication, lifting an X-Wing out of a swamp is no small feat. That's a long way from planet-busting, my friend.



> Wrong.
> 
> Wrong.



Find a new favorite word.



> Complete non sequiter.



You've just demonstrated that you don't know what a non-sequitur is. That, or you've grossly misjudged my argument, and I would implore you to read through it again.



> Stop trying to shift the burden of proof.



You've just demonstrated that you don't know what the burden of proof applies to, either. I never made the assertion that it could or couldn't, I said it is simply not known, which it isn't, unless you've got some hidden e-mails from Toriyama I should know about?



> Show ships in Dragon Ball covering quantifiable distances that put it beyond low relativistic speeds.
> 
> Now.



You're asking the impossible. No one can quantify the distances the ships have travelled so no one can determine their speeds. Quit wasting both our time.



> He uses his first form to conserve energy, you have no idea how that might affect his real physiology at all.



...Talk about a non-sequitur. What does conserving energy have to do with aging?


----------



## Darth Nihilus (May 1, 2010)

Leland Chee would like to have a word with you.


----------



## Nikushimi (May 1, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Leland Chee would like to have a word with you.



I don't even know who that is, but unless he (she?) has a time machine, he (she?) cannot undo the past and reshape the original Star Wars continuity.


----------



## Punpun (May 1, 2010)

dude, an author can do whatever he wants with his story. Just accept what he says to be cannon well is cannon.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (May 1, 2010)

The guy who has the say over what is canon and what is no in the Star Wars Universe given the say so by Lucas himself. GG


----------



## Nikushimi (May 1, 2010)

Mandom said:


> dude, an author can do whatever he wants with his story. Just accept what he says to be cannon is cannon.



Not after the fact.



Lucas: Behold! Peak humans with light sticks!

Some other guy: No wait! They're massively FTL and can hax anything w/ Da Force!

Lucas: I like this idea better!



What kinda bullshit is that...


----------



## Es (May 1, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> Not after the fact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Once again Lucasfilm Ltd.>>>>Your opinion.


----------



## Punpun (May 1, 2010)

You don't seem to understand that the words from the author of any story are absolute. That you find it to be BS or not dosn't matter.


----------



## Cooler (May 1, 2010)

TWF said:


> I like how he says the author who created the series and the guy who says what is or is not a single continuity (EU + Films = Continuity) says the series creators are wrong.
> 
> OBD still bring the laughs.



George Lucas stated in an interview the Emperor wasn't cloned...He actually stated that. 

You're putting the EU on the same level of the films? ROFL.


----------



## Fang (May 1, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> Authors don't just arbitrarily get to go back and re-do the past like it never happened. The original continuity in its entirety, before Lucas OK'd the changes, is what's originally canon.



Wrong.

In RoTJ original cut Palpatine had never met Yoda, you are still wrong.



> It's not canon, simple as.



Wrong.



> Nice rebuttle.



I'm still right, what's your point?



> The Force is a power that exists across the cosmos in pretty much fucking _everybody_. Says nothing of his or anyone else's ability to harness it. If Luke's training with Yoda is any indication, lifting an X-Wing out of a swamp is no small feat. That's a long way from planet-busting, my friend.



Way to completely make absolutely no sense with another non seqiuter. 



> Find a new favorite word.



No, thanks. 



> You've just demonstrated that you don't know what a non-sequitur is. That, or you've grossly misjudged my argument, and I would implore you to read through it again.



Your making absolutely no sense with your statements to try and make a rebuttal, thus you keep making non sequiters.

More you know.



> You've just demonstrated that you don't know what the burden of proof applies to, either. I never made the assertion that it could or couldn't, I said it is simply not known, which it isn't, unless you've got some hidden e-mails from Toriyama I should know about?



Go back a few posts.



> You're asking the impossible. No one can quantify the distances the ships have travelled so no one can determine their speeds. Quit wasting both our time.



Thank you for the concession you have no proof.



> ...Talk about a non-sequitur. What does conserving energy have to do with aging?



Re-read my post,

Wait fuck it, I'm not going to argue anymore with someone who said Lucas and Chee, the guys in charge of canon, don't get to determine continuity.

Get back on my ignore list.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (May 1, 2010)

More Ad Nauseum from Cooler :33


----------



## Fang (May 1, 2010)

Cooler said:


> George Lucas stated in an interview the Emperor wasn't cloned...He actually stated that.
> 
> You're putting the EU on the same level of the films? ROFL.



No such statements exist, Lucas simply said Palaptine never died before Return of the Jedi.

Are you lying on purpose?


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 1, 2010)

Cooler said:


> *Thats completely different to mindfucking millions of people. Jedi like Obi-Wan Kenobi can casually use mind tricks on weak minds but not without some concentrate and the Emperor is a million times more powerful? The wank is thread is incredible*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The mindfuckery can only be used on the weak minded is an misconception as Vader after becoming a sith lord went back to Tatooine and compeltely demolished Watto's mind and Watto's species are resistant to mindfuckery.

Also it should be noted that Palpatine himself mindwiped and an entire planet (Coruscant) to cover up the super Star Destroyer he buried underneath a museum.


----------



## Fang (May 1, 2010)

That's a misnomer. Sidious did not mind-wipe the entire population of Coruscant, the feat in question was performed a specific area in the Works area of Coruscant to cover up the burial of the Super-Class Star-Destroyer Luskanya.

However he easily enslaved and drained the entire population of natives on Byss in the Deep Core, which has a population over three times that of the Earth (over 18.4 billion beings).


----------



## Darth Nihilus (May 1, 2010)

TWF said:


> No such statements exist, Lucas simply said Palaptine never died before Return of the Jedi.
> 
> Are you lying on purpose?



He's referring to the statement from Lucas about not making any movies that take place after the original trilogy, possibly making movies out of EU stories from the comics and novels as if it's going to mean something here.


----------



## Endless Mike (May 1, 2010)

I hate that myth, it's Force Suggestion that only works on the weak minded, Jedi will use this but dark side users will use more forceful techniques that can't be resisted by simply having strong will.


----------



## Nikushimi (May 1, 2010)

Gundam Guy said:


> Once again Lucasfilm Ltd.>>>>Your opinion.



Lucasfilm Ltd. doesn't have a time machine.



Mandom said:


> You don't seem to understand that the words from the author of any story are absolute. That you find it to be BS or not dosn't matter.



They are absolute insofar as time will allow. They cannot go back and erase something from happening, let alone replace it with something else. They can change their minds, but that says nothing of their original intent/product.



TWF said:


> Wrong.
> 
> In RoTJ original cut Palpatine had never met Yoda, you are still wrong.



Then the writers pulled a boner.



> Wrong



You can say it all you like, it's still not canon lol.



> I'm still right, what's your point?



ITT: TWF whips it out and challenges me to a measuring contest.

Not playing that game with you, old chap.



> Way to completely make absolutely no sense with another non seqiuter.



Way to misuse the term non-sequitur, and misspell it. Again.



> Your making absolutely no sense with your statements to try and make a rebuttal, thus you keep making non sequiters.
> 
> More you know.



NON-SEQUITUR! NON-SEQUITUR! THAT'S A NON-SEQUITUR! YOUR MOM'S A NON-SEQUITUR! I WENT DOWN TO THE STORE TODAY AND BOUGHT ME A NON-SEQUITUR!

Learn what the term actually refers to before you go throwing it around and demonstrating your ignorance.



> Go back a few posts.



Specify which ones. Otherwise I have no idea what you're telling me to look for.



> Thank you for the concession you have no proof.



Neither do you. This particular argument isn't beneficial for either of us.



> Re-read my post,
> 
> Wait fuck it, I'm not going to argue anymore with someone who said Lucas and Chee, the guys in charge of canon, don't get to determine continuity.



Good. Then shut up.



> Get back on my ignore list.



Get back in the kitchen.


----------



## Fang (May 1, 2010)

Yeah, I realized my comment was from Leland Chee talking about Palpatine telling Luke that he has "died" before. Doesn't really matter anyway since Lucas contradicted himself by making a TV series after Revenge of the Sith.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 1, 2010)

Where did it say that Vader demolished the minds of Toydarians, by the way?  Was it in the Essential Guides or something?


----------



## Fang (May 1, 2010)

I'm not sure either, EM has brought up quite a bit when people challenge Force-User telepathy.


----------



## Es (May 1, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Where did it say that Vader demolished the minds of Toydarians, by the way?  Was it in the Essential Guides or something?


Yeah it was the essential guide to the force, an epic book by the way


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 1, 2010)

Gundam Guy said:


> Yeah it was the essential guide to the force, an epic book by the way



ah, so that's the one

I think it also said that Force users can accelerate themselves to the point that they can do the whole 'vanish from sight' thing


----------



## Fang (May 1, 2010)

Yeah in Crosscurrents the Jedi from Sadow's time was casually running over 100 meters per second.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 1, 2010)

TWF said:


> That's a misnomer. Sidious did not mind-wipe the entire population of Coruscant, the feat in question was performed a specific area in the Works area of Coruscant to cover up the burial of the Super-Class Star-Destroyer Luskanya.
> 
> However he easily enslaved and drained the entire population of natives on Byss in the Deep Core, which has a population over three times that of the Earth (over 18.4 billion beings).



Ah my mistake then.


----------



## Endless Mike (May 1, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> ah, so that's the one
> 
> I think it also said that Force users can accelerate themselves to the point that they can do the whole 'vanish from sight' thing



Obi - Wan and Qui - Gon actually did that in TPM, when they were running away from the droidekas. They also phased through a blaster bolt.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 1, 2010)

Yeah, I know about that, EM


----------



## Darth Nihilus (May 1, 2010)

What, Force Speed?


----------



## Fang (May 1, 2010)

Wait, when did the blaster bolt phasing happen?


----------



## Endless Mike (May 1, 2010)

TWF said:


> Wait, when did the blaster bolt phasing happen?



I saw a screenshot of it on SD.net once.


----------



## Fang (May 1, 2010)

So yeah let's recap even in the movies:

- super speed
- supersonic/hypersonic reflexes even without precognition
- multi-dimensional senses (Obi-Wan feeling all the echoes of death in the Force light-years away from Alderaan in hyperspace)
- energy absorption
- telekinesis (including line of sight that can cover several kilometers)
- clairvoyance (hitting a two meter target while traveling several thousand kilometers an hour with a torpedo making 3000+g-force turns at near lightspeed when it was fired)
- generating electricity/lightning 
- fighting a few feet above lava and not even being affected by sulfuric fumes and chemicals 

Man normal humans with lightsabers.


----------



## Endless Mike (May 1, 2010)

Don't forget the jump in AOTC where he lands on the repulsor craft, IIRC it was calculated to be way more than a normal human could normally survive, especially due to Coruscant's gravity.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 1, 2010)

IIRC, it was a thousand gees that Anakin managed to somehow dissipate or cushion against


----------



## Fang (May 1, 2010)

They did the same thing with both Dooku and Sidious Force Lightning blasts saying they greatly exceed terminal velocity


----------



## paulatreides0 (May 1, 2010)

Would reacting to force lightning be considered lightning reaction time?


----------



## MichaelUN89 (May 1, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Would reacting to force lightning be considered lightning reaction time?



Actually yes.  
Force lightning can crush stuff like AT-ST. A real lightning  at best can destroy a small house. 

And somewher I read that it is implied that force lightning has the properties of a real lightning.  So  Yoda and any sith or jedi that reacts to this attack has relativistic reflexes.


----------



## paulatreides0 (May 1, 2010)

If that _is_ true, then that means: lightning travels at about C/2 on average, meaning that Palps and the rest of the Jedis can react to something half the speed of light...


----------



## MichaelUN89 (May 1, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> If that _is_ true, then that means: lightning travels at about C/2 on average, meaning that Palps and the rest of the Jedis can react to something half the speed of light...



Indeed and so far I understand that the speed of a lightning is proportional to the average electron kinetic energy  or viceversa.  So you could say that between more powerful is  a lightning or an electric force faster it should be. 

However apparently 186,000 miles per second is max possible speed. Anyway fuck  Yoda who reacted to the force lightning of Palpatine.


----------



## paulatreides0 (May 1, 2010)

MichaelUN89 said:


> Indeed and so far I understand that the speed of a lightning is proportional to the average electron kinetic energy  or viceversa.  So you could say that between more powerful is  a lightning or an electric force faster it should be.
> 
> However apparently 186,000 miles per second is max possible speed. Anyway fuck  Yoda who reacted to the force lightning of Palpatine.



And Dooku's. Oh, and Windu too.


----------



## SHM (May 2, 2010)

Almost any fictional universe will look extremely powerful, if you look at every single scene and analyze it to death while applying real-world physics and calculations.

Unfortunatelly, SW's fanbase is full of people who are arsed to do that, making the series'(or at least the movie-verse's) power-scale much higher than what actually is.

Hell, just reading in this thread that a X-Wing falling on a planet can cause the end of most of the planet's life(because of the X-Wing's speed), is hilarious. Or that a Jedi 'phased' through a blaster-bolt(because of a one-second scene where the movie makers obviously screwed up, but didn't notice it in time[or didn't had the time] to fix it).


You SW fans are just lucky that there isn't more fanbases with the same passion(and time to spend) to over-analyze every single detail of their favorite shows. Because if there was, you would see that there is *tons* of fictional series much stronger than SW.


----------



## paulatreides0 (May 2, 2010)

SHM said:


> Almost any fictional universe will look extremely powerful, if you look at every single scene and analyze it to death while applying real-world physics and calculations.


You mean like we do for _every single_ calc we have?? For everything ranging from Naruto to Bleach to OP to Gundam to JJBA.



SHM said:


> Unfortunatelly, SW's fanbase is full of people who are arsed to do that, making the series'(or at least the movie-verse's) power-scale much higher than what actually is.


Like? Please do show proof? We have yet to show even _one_ instance of something that _hasn't_ been proven by a canon source.



SHM said:


> You SW fans are just lucky that there isn't more fanbases with the same passion(and time to spend) to over-analyze every single detail of their favorite shows. Because if there was, you would see that there is *tons* of fictional series much stronger than SW.


Please do try it. Come on, I implore you, and we'll see how it goes.

It's not wanking if you have


----------



## Fang (May 2, 2010)

SHM said:


> Almost any fictional universe will look extremely powerful, if you look at every single scene and analyze it to death while applying real-world physics and calculations.
> 
> Unfortunatelly, SW's fanbase is full of people who are arsed to do that, making the series'(or at least the movie-verse's) power-scale much higher than what actually is.



lol



> Hell, just reading in this thread that a X-Wing falling on a planet can cause the end of most of the planet's life(because of the X-Wing's speed), is hilarious. Or that a Jedi 'phased' through a blaster-bolt(because of a one-second scene where the movie makers obviously screwed up, but didn't notice it in time[or didn't had the time] to fix it).



They spend over three years on each prequel film, and the odds of them missing a beat on account of technical glitch is less likely than lightning bolts shooting out of my ass spontaneously. 



> You SW fans are just lucky that there isn't more fanbases with the same passion(and time to spend) to over-analyze every single detail of their favorite shows. Because if there was, you would see that there is *tons* of fictional series much stronger than SW.



lol


----------



## MichaelUN89 (May 2, 2010)

SHM said:


> Almost any fictional universe will look extremely powerful, if you look at every single scene and analyze it to death while applying real-world physics and calculations.
> 
> Unfortunatelly, SW's fanbase is full of people who are arsed to do that, making the series'(or at least the movie-verse's) power-scale much higher than what actually is.
> 
> ...




Why I said that?
1) Well Raigen  said "lol the star destroyers got destroyed by an X-wing" like if it that were a very low end feat
2) I pointed and explained why it is not actually a low end feat.  In real life if an x-wing clashes against our planet at light speed or near light speed, the planet and  all of us would die. 
3) It science fiction, so if  IRL a body of 10 tons moving at light speed could destroy a planet, why not as well in fiction? Specially when we are talking about a verse where there are ships that can casually destroy planets or even destroy entire star systems? Or  characters  that can use lightnings and create wormholes? 

Actually  the fact that a x-wing that moves at near light speed destroys a star destroyer is pretty reasonable, while it would be inconsistent and weird that it were not able to destroy a planet because a plothole or whatever.

*Remember when Cell and Gohan used their final kamehas? 

The clash of both kamehas did nothing to the planet. Indeed it is a plothole, so just because  it is inconsistent it does not mean they can not destroy one.*

Also


----------



## Darth Nihilus (May 2, 2010)

Why are you using the Infinity Wave as an example?


----------



## Aokiji (May 2, 2010)

MichaelUN89 said:


> Why I said that?
> 1) Well Raigen  said "lol the star destroyers got destroyed by an X-wing" like if it that were a very low end feat
> 2) I pointed and explained why it is not actually a low end feat.  In real life if an x-wing clashes against our planet at light speed or near light speed, the planet and  all of us would die.
> 3) It science fiction, so if  IRL a body of 10 tons moving at light speed could destroy a planet, why not as well in fiction? Specially when we are talking about a verse where there are ships that can casually destroy planets or even destroy entire star systems? Or  characters  that can use lightnings and create wormholes?
> ...



It did nothing to the planet because it wasn't directed at the planet.


----------



## Aokiji (May 2, 2010)

MichaelUN89 said:


> *Actually yes.
> Force lightning can crush stuff like AT-ST. A real lightning  at best can destroy a small house. *
> 
> And somewher I read that it is implied that force lightning has the properties of a real lightning.  So  Yoda and any sith or jedi that reacts to this attack has relativistic reflexes.



God. 

What kind of logic is that? In fact, that's more like proof that it's not like normal lightning. A lightning is something that happens between a cloud and the ground. By definition. Period.


----------



## Shoddragon (May 2, 2010)

considering everyone is in agreement palpatine stomps, perhaps someone should request a lock?


----------



## MichaelUN89 (May 2, 2010)

Aokiji said:


> God.
> 
> What kind of logic is that? In fact, that's more like proof that it's not like normal lightning. A lightning is something that happens between a cloud and the ground. By definition. Period.


The example was not meant to prove that it is like a normal lightning. But superior than a lightning.

I think that we can agree that force lightning is an electric based attack right?
The kinetic energy increases with the square of the speed.
Being force lightning more powerful than a lightning it would have more kinetic energy, therefore  superior speed as well.

However it is was  just an example of  "what in theory * it should be*".


----------



## Aokiji (May 2, 2010)

MichaelUN89 said:


> The example was not meant to prove that it is like a normal lightning. But superior than a lightning.
> 
> I think that we can agree that force lightning is an electric based attack right?
> The kinetic energy increases with the square of the speed.
> ...



Dude, it's powered by the FORCE. Using that kind of logic is retarded, since that would make Enels and Sasuke's attacks lightspeed.


----------



## MichaelUN89 (May 2, 2010)

Aokiji said:


> Dude, it's powered by the FORCE. Using that kind of logic is retarded, since that would make Enels and Sasuke's attacks lightspeed.



Indeed you are right. However it was  just an hypothetical idea supposing they worked under a real scenario following some real physic laws. Also it was just for some lulz since there were some dudes wanking dragon ball and I remembered a  narutard from other forum that is always using that silly logic. 
It is a dude that has  stated that Kakashi is faster than light and is skyfather level since it can create dimensions with kamui. And that raikage is so fast as light and such  so I felt like  I wanted to troll a little bit 

God that Uchiha Master  is really full of lulz, however sometimes it is  a real headache.

Actually the idea of the speed of lightning I posted in my previous posts I got it from this Narutard. He said that since Kirin busted "mountains" and such Kirin was billions of times faster and more powerful than a lightning.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (May 2, 2010)

The very post you gave info on Force Storm says it's powered by Anger and will, it's more powerful for the fact it's a powerful Darkside ability that draws upon strong negative emotions such as anger.


----------



## Fang (May 2, 2010)

Aokiji said:


> God.
> 
> What kind of logic is that? In fact, that's more like proof that it's not like normal lightning. A lightning is something that happens between a cloud and the ground. By definition. Period.



Electricity is being generated by the Force, not created by it.


----------



## Aokiji (May 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> Electricity is being generated by the Force, not created by it.



I think electricity attack should be considered slower than lightning until proven otherwise.


----------



## Fang (May 2, 2010)

Electricity moves faster than lightning.


----------



## Aokiji (May 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> Electricity moves faster than lightning.





So Raitons in Naruto are faster than lightning huh?  Same goes for Lanza BLABLABLA Enel and every electro attack in fiction.


----------



## Fang (May 2, 2010)

Real lightning is plasma, electricity is not.

Don't try that nonsensical red herring shit.


----------



## Aokiji (May 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> Real lightning is plasma, electricity is not.
> 
> Don't try that nonsensical red herring shit.



It's not red herring, it's on topic: lightning attacks. 

Answer my question: should electrical attacks be considered lightning speed or not?


----------



## Fang (May 2, 2010)

It is a red herring, since no one was talking about that analogy except for you in the first place to begin with. Force Lightning is a misnomer since the ability is generating electricity, not plasma.

Naruto and One Piece comparisons are absolutely stupid.


----------



## Aokiji (May 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> It is a red herring, since no one was talking about that analogy except for you in the first place to begin with. Force Lightning is a misnomer since the ability is generating electricity, not plasma.
> 
> Naruto and One Piece comparisons are absolutely stupid.



No they aren't since the attacks I mentioned were electricity attacks too....


----------



## Fang (May 2, 2010)

No they aren't.

Raitons are "lightning nature chakra",

Neither is Enel.


----------



## Aokiji (May 2, 2010)

God.

Ok. 

Right.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> Neither is Enel.



Just curious, what do you mean with this?


----------



## Fang (May 2, 2010)

He's magic.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 2, 2010)

He doesnt move at the speed of lightning in travelform then?


----------



## Aokiji (May 2, 2010)

You literally said the complete opposite about him in past threads, I swear by my beard stubble.


----------



## Fang (May 2, 2010)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> He doesnt move at the speed of lightning in travelform then?



I don't remember that ever being a case for Enel's speed.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> I don't remember that ever being a case for Enel's speed.



I thought it would make sense if he did move around at that speed when fully turned into his element just as Kizaru when he turned into his


----------



## Fang (May 2, 2010)

I don't remember again any time that was debated over


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 2, 2010)

Kizaru was atleast

That i am sure of


----------



## MichaelUN89 (May 2, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Why are you using the Infinity Wave as an example?



1) Because it looks badasss.
2) I was looking for other scans, since I did not found what I wanted, I decided to use the i.w. as an example that proves the broken stuff that exists in SW as well   "prove" that  users are not wanking at all SW or they are dragonball haters and sw is actually that powerful.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (May 2, 2010)

Using the appeal to motive fallacy makes me laugh


----------



## MichaelUN89 (May 2, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Using the appeal to motive fallacy makes me laugh



What you refer to?


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 2, 2010)

wow, this thread took like half a dozen detours


----------



## Cygnus45 (May 4, 2010)

Okay, what I want to understand is how EU can be canon to the movies if so many retcons were done to the original story. For example:



> Though I did not personally watch him do it, I received from LFL a Word document of Revenge of the Sith with Mr Lucas' edits, which was distinct from the edits I'd already gotten from Sue Rostoni and Howard Roffman and the rest of the LFL crew, and this document was edited in such a detailed fashion that even individual words had been struck off and his preferred replacements inserted, as well as some passages wholly excised and some dialogue replaced with the dialogue from the screenplay. If that's not line-editing, I don't know what is.
> 
> What's in that book is there because Mr. Lucas wanted it to be there. What's not in that book is not there because Mr. Lucas wanted it gone.
> 
> Period.



How much changed? I can understand the case in DC when they were retconning everything, but in their case most of the old stories never happened. How do expanded universe feats apply to the past?


----------



## Fang (May 4, 2010)

Cygnus45 said:


> Okay, what I want to understand is how EU can be canon to the movies if so many retcons were done to the original story. For example:



There weren't that many to begin with.



> How much changed? I can understand the case in DC when they were retconning everything, but in their case most of the old stories never happened. How do expanded universe feats apply to the past?



What are you talking about? The RoTS novelization?


----------



## Starwarsmarveldcotakunerd (Aug 18, 2011)

emperor plapitine


----------



## Dandy Elegance (Aug 18, 2011)

Plapitine solos.


----------



## Itαchi (Aug 18, 2011)

Uhmm..Freeza can destroy Planets with 1 finger while sitting on a chair...

...Just sayin..But yeah,Op says they dont fight directly,But freeza can just destroy Everything,actually lol.

Anyway,what about the Ginyu Force?


----------



## Thor (Aug 18, 2011)

Freeza wins.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Aug 18, 2011)

This got necroed because?


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Aug 18, 2011)

Starwarsmarveldcotakunerd said:


> emperor plapitine



NECROING BASTARD! 



Itαchi said:


> Uhmm..Freeza can destroy Planets with 1 finger while sitting on a chair...
> 
> ...Just sayin..But yeah,Op says they dont fight directly,But freeza can just destroy Everything,actually lol.
> 
> Anyway,what about the Ginyu Force?



Mindrape



Thor said:


> Freeza wins.



Wrong 



Matta Clatta said:


> This got necroed because?



because a star wars fan is going around the forum necroing old Star Wars threads. but anyway INB4LOCK


----------



## Thor (Aug 18, 2011)

Mind Rape? :lol 

Freeza flicks a finger. Palpatine dies.


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Aug 18, 2011)

Thor said:


> Mind Rape? :lol
> 
> Freeza flicks a finger. Palpatine dies.



Why are you trying to debate in an old thread anyway?


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Aug 18, 2011)

>Ignoring the basic rundown of a thread
>Goes straight into claiming who wins without a reason why

Never change OBD


----------



## Thor (Aug 18, 2011)

ShikiYakumo said:


> Why are you trying to debate in an old thread anyway?



This is the reason. 



Darth Nihilus said:


> >Ignoring the basic rundown of a thread
> >Goes straight into claiming who wins without a reason why
> 
> Never change OBD



You expect people to go through 22 pages of nonsense?


----------



## Level7N00b (Aug 18, 2011)

Fucking necromancers. 

Reported.


----------



## Narcissus (Aug 18, 2011)

Thor said:


> You expect people to go through 22 pages of nonsense?



Then don't post. It's that simple. You haven't even read the arguments that were made, so all you've really done amounts to trolling.

At least I was saved the trouble of reporting this one.


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