# Which of these people can destory Madara's PS



## Horizon28 (Feb 8, 2015)

Each person is only allowed to use 1 jutsu or attack
Madara is in a defensive state.

Round1:
Deidara
EMS Sasuke
BM Naruto
1 MS Kakashi
8G Guy

Round2:
RSM Naruto
Shrarinnegan Sasuke (No Bujji chakra)
DMS Kakashi
Kaguya


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 8, 2015)

Horizon28 said:


> Each person is only allowed to use 1 jutsu or attack
> Madara is in a defensive state.
> 
> Round1:
> ...



 Answers in bold.


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## Deer Lord (Feb 8, 2015)

Assuming this is EMS madara's PS:

Round1:
Deidara - blows himself up, madara laughs at this.
EMS Sasuke - Can't do shit.
BM Naruto- an unstabalized PS already no sold 100% kyuubi BD. Naruto isn't busting this sussano.
1 MS Kakashi - Can't do shit.
8G Guy - might break it with night guy.

Round2:
RSM Naruto- 9 bijuu amped RS wrecks madara.
Shrarinnegan Sasuke (No Bujji chakra)- sasuke's sussano is above EMS mad's
DMS Kakashi- he can phase through it, but destroy it in one hit? don't think so.
Kaguya- PS gets fodderised by ash bones/vaccum palms


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## Shinobi no Kami (Feb 8, 2015)

Horizon28 said:


> Round1:
> Deidara
> EMS Sasuke
> BM Naruto
> ...


none of them break PS.


> Round2:
> RSM Naruto
> Shrarinnegan Sasuke (No Bujji chakra)
> DMS Kakashi
> Kaguya


all of them can break  PS.


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## Empathy (Feb 8, 2015)

_C0_ might damage it some, given they're similar in destructive scale and its hype relative to Nagato and Muu. Edo Deidara would probably have to be allowed to stand there and repeatedly spam _C0_ at it to accomplish anything notable, though. I suspect EMS Sasuke's perfect _Susanoo_ could win in a clash against Madara's based on hype and portrayal, but I don't really have the feats to prove it past just my opinion. I suspect Naruto could probably destroy it and kill Madara with a supercharged, senjutsu-enhanced _Bijuudama_. Is MS Kakashi suppose to use _Kamui_ at it? Madara's probably too far away from Kakashi in it to get warped, so Kakashi just puts a relatively small hole in it, to which it regenerates from, I guess. If Kakashi were given some Kyuubi chakra, he could send the entire thing to the other dimension, though. _Shimon_ Gai and everyone below on the list tear it apart more or less with ease.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 8, 2015)

Empathy said:


> _C0_ might damage it some, given they're similar in destructive scale and its hype relative to Nagato and Muu.



 The problem with that is even Manda was able to tank the explosion and survive long enough for Sasuke to escape.




> Is MS Kakashi suppose to use _Kamui_ at it? Madara's probably too far away from Kakashi in it to get warped, so Kakashi just puts a relatively small hole in it, to which it regenerates from, I guess.



 This. He can't Kamui warp Madara away even if he wasn't out of range simply b/c Kakashi at closer range could only Kamui warp Juubidara's Gedodama instead of his whole body to the other dimension.



> If Kakashi were given some Kyuubi chakra, he could send the entire thing to the other dimension, though. _Shimon_ Gai and everyone below on the list tear it apart more or less with ease.



 That's likely.


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## sabre320 (Feb 8, 2015)

in round 1 ems sasuke maybe based on hype and portrayal on the transmigitant hype by black zetsu ,kakashi could kamui the head if given a clean shot considering he kamuid gedo mazos arm mid summon while exhausted,bm naruto superbijudama busts it 8th gai definitely round 2 is pointless


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## Altair21 (Feb 8, 2015)

Round 1: 

Deidara - No
EMS Sasuke - No
BM Naruto - Eh maybe (if he charges his strongest bijuu bomb then he may be able to do it)
1 MS Kakashi - No
8G Guy - Yes (Night Guy)

Round 2:

RSM Naruto - Easily
Shrarinnegan Sasuke (No Bujji chakra) - Easily
DMS Kakashi - No (I mean Kamui shuriken could warp it away but this version of Kakashi never showed the destructive power to outright destroy it in one attack)
Kaguya - Easily


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## StarWanderer (Feb 8, 2015)

Horizon28 said:


> Each person is only allowed to use 1 jutsu or attack
> Madara is in a defensive state.
> 
> Round1:
> ...



Round 1:
Deidara - no.
EMS Sasuke - no.
BM Naruto - theoretically, yes. With his strongest Bijuu Dama. But PS withstood full Kurama's Bijuu Dama without even a scratch. And that Bijuu Dama was big. Just compare 50% Kurama Avatar's size with full Kurama's size and look at how big that Bijuu Dama was. So, as i wrote, theoretically. 
1 MS Kakashi - no.
8G Guy - yes.

Round 2:
RSM Naruto - yes.
Sharrinnegan Sasuke (no Bijuu chakra) - yes.
DMS Kakashi - yes.
Kaguya - yes.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 8, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Round 1:
> Deidara - no.
> EMS Sasuke - no.
> BM Naruto - theoretically, yes. With his strongest Bijuu Dama. But PS withstood full Kurama's Bijuu Dama without even a scratch. And that Bijuu Dama was big. Just compare 50% Kurama Avatar's size with full Kurama's size and look at how big that Bijuu Dama was. So, as i wrote, theoretically.
> ...



 ^ Curious as to when Madara's PS withstood Kurama's Bijuudama. Was it the instance where Juubito just summoned the Infinite Tsukyomi?


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 8, 2015)

^ What in the ...

 Wow, I totally must've skimmed that chapter. What chapter is it btw?


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## ARGUS (Feb 8, 2015)

Horizon28 said:


> Round1:
> Deidara


C0 is the only thing that comes close, but gets tanked with little to no damage 


> EMS Sasuke


Hes not busting PS, 
PS can withstand far more than its output, and sasukes PS is weaker than Madaras, so he stands no chance at busting it 


> BM Naruto


yeah he can busst it 
Continous TBB do the trick at busting PS, 


> 1 MS Kakashi


Kamui focused on the jewel of PS, would bust it just fine 


> 8G Guy


Night Moth or evening elephant comfortably bust PS 


> Round2:
> RSM Naruto


Any single variant of his Bijuu RS, TBB or BDRS would one shot PS 


> Shrarinnegan Sasuke (No Bujji chakra)


For the love of god, sasuke has  the rinnegan, noot the rinne sharingan,  
either  way, he busts PS with his own rather easily 


> DMS Kakashi


He wrecks it with his own PS, or with Kamui shuriken 


> Kaguya


80 Gods Vacuum Attack, or Ash Bones or TSB clown PS with the easiest of difficulties


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## StarWanderer (Feb 8, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> ^ What in the ...
> 
> Wow, I totally must've skimmed that chapter. What chapter is it btw?



Manga chapter 621.

By the way, it took some damage, lol - PS's nose was twisted by explosion! 



> yeah he can busst it
> Continous TBB do the trick at busting PS,



Only his strongest, biggest TBB's can damage PS. Like those which are many times bigger than Kurama himself.


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## KeyofMiracles (Feb 9, 2015)

> Round1:
> Deidara
> EMS Sasuke
> BM Naruto
> ...



Sasuke can't do it. His PS is too weak. 

Naruto can't do it with one attack either. Downscaling from VoTE 2 means that Sasuke's PS can tank something 2x a regular Bijuu Dama in power with only minor damage to the face and wings and upper right or left body, and Madara's PS is a good deal stronger than Sasuke's, meaning it tanks the same thing with no damage. It took something on the level of 13 Bijuu Dama Blades to bust PS, you can forget about Continuous Bijuu Dama opening it up. Flash Bijuu Dama could do a lot of damage, but it's not going to one shot.

Gai can do it with one complete Evening Elephant (Each direct hit>>>Senpo Bijuu Dama) and Night Guy would rip through it like butter.



> Round2:
> RSM Naruto
> Shrarinnegan Sasuke (No Bujji chakra)
> DMS Kakashi
> Kaguya


They all one shot it.


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## Lawrence777 (Feb 9, 2015)

Only person can beat it in group 1 is Guy, albeit he'd have to kill himself and I think Madara'd still win at the end regardless.
I don't think BSM Naruto can destroy it. I'd be surprised if his chakra construct at the time came up to PS's kneecap. Madara's PS tanked 10+ of Full Kyuubi's BDs. Full kyuubi's size is several orders bigger than 1/2[2]. Presumably, their standard mouth sized BD's share that size discrepancy.


All of second group can break it pretty casually.


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## sabre320 (Feb 9, 2015)

Lawrence777 said:


> Only person can beat it in group 1 is Guy, albeit he'd have to kill himself and I think Madara'd still win at the end regardless.
> I don't think BSM Naruto can destroy it. I'd be surprised if his chakra construct at the time came up to PS's kneecap. Madara's PS tanked 10+ of Full Kyuubi's BDs. Full kyuubi's size is several orders bigger than 1/2[2]. Presumably, their standard mouth sized BD's share that size discrepancy.
> 
> 
> All of second group can break it pretty casually.



8th gate gai would murder madara....his elephant barrage left juubidara coughing his guts even ignoring senjutsu weakness..

Lol i find this argument laughable an emaciated kyuubi with almost all of its chakra stolen is able to make a bijudama this size a mountain range buster
2

A fresh bm naruto should be able to make one atleast three times this size like against gedomazo then you add the effect of senjutsu which turns techniques like a simple rasengan into these
2

ps is not surving that


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## Lawrence777 (Feb 9, 2015)

> 8th gate gai would murder madara....his elephant barrage left juubidara coughing his guts even ignoring senjutsu weakness..


8th gate guy dies, so there's already no chance he can conceptually win against Madara.
More importantly though, Madara would still survive with izanagi and then walk away from Guy's disintegrated body afterward. 



> Lol i find this argument laughable an emaciated kyuubi with almost all of its chakra stolen is able to make a bijudama this size a mountain range buster
> 2
> 
> A fresh bm naruto should be able to make one atleast three times this size like against gedomazo then you add the effect of senjutsu which turns techniques like a simple rasengan into these
> 2


I can't see your links but I assume you mean this[1]

That's fine and dandy and all but Madara tanked tens of full kyuubi bd's aoe not even counting the ones off panel necessary to destroy Shinsuusenju's backpack. Again, each of those standard mouth-sized BD's from full kyuubi are much bigger than the average BD via size scaling. 

It took all those aoes + SM Hashirama's Choujou Kebutsu and was only this damaged in the area of susano'o that was concentrated upon.

Furthermore, Sasuke's legged V3 Susano'o, the one the same size as Naruto's avatar[1] were both destroyed by Obito's ground pound[2]. Essentially,  giant legged v3 susano'o = bsm construct > juubi lazer > any bijuu dama naruto should be capable of. PS > giant legged v3. What are you basing your belief BSM Naruto can bust Madara's PS on?


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## Kyu (Feb 9, 2015)

BM's Chō BD cracks PS _at least_.

Senpō: Chō Bijūdama outright destroys it. 

Gai shatters it with ease.


Everyone in round 2 clears.


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## sabre320 (Feb 9, 2015)

Lawrence777 said:


> 8th gate guy dies, so there's already no chance he can conceptually win against Madara.
> More importantly though, Madara would still survive with izanagi and then walk away from Guy's disintegrated body afterward.
> 
> 
> ...



The sword damas were negated by the shinju barrage did that explosion seem like a normal bijudama explosion to u? and most of the punches didnt land because of said bijudama.ps never took the brunt of the bijudamas damage as they werent directly aimed at it lol do you have any proof that the sasukes sussano powered up by both the kyuubi and senjutsu is weaker then a plain ps? simple bm tanked an attack from the juubi something far above madara and hashirama it overpowered nine bijudama then vaporized the mountain range with ease....then you have senjutsu which you are hilariously downplaying...the bijudama from the full kyuubi formed an explosion of the same size as the bijuama from any of the bijuu it destroyed one mountain ....mind controlled kyuubi never made giant bijudama while bm naruto casually does so..a emaciated kurama made a bijudama made a bijudama that is a mountain range buster a fresh bm naruto should easily make one three times that do you have any proof ps can survive anything near that? not to mention a concentrated attack with a much greater yeild is far superior in penetrating defenses then a barrage of attacks with much lower yeild a full magazine from an 9mm machine pistol will not penetrate body armour one ap high density round will go right through...

another example of a t80 you can hit it with 30 gernade launcher rounds consequitively its not gonna be breached hit it with with the same yeild in one shot eg 5 charges of c4 and its scrap metal


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## Arles Celes (Feb 9, 2015)

Only one attack allowed?

-Deidara's C0 explosion was so big that it seemed muuch bigger than a regular bijuudama. However, Deidara's chakra shouldn't be so strong as to damage Madara's PS given his level. If the size of an explosion is the only thing that matters in determining destructive power though then it might damage Madara's PS slightly.

-Sasuke's EMS PS might be stronger than Madara's given BZ explanation- on how only those that are strong enough can meet RS- and his PS co-defeating V2 Juubito(with v1 stated to be above Hashi) with BSM Naruto. However, I kinda do not see him destroying Madara's PS with ONE slash. At most moderate damage IMO.

-BM Naruto and not BSM right? Well, Madara's unstabilized PS resisted 100% Kurama's bijuudama unscratched and it took like tons of Shinsenjuu's huge blows to damage the stabilized form. I say BM Naruto delivers low to moderate damage.

- Guy with Night Guy can probably do a small hole in PS but I'm not sure if it would destroy it. Guy in 8th Gate is much stronger than EMS Madara, but I'm not sure if even Night Guy can completely destroy Madara's PS.

Everyone else on the list(excepting maybe DMS Kakashi) like RSM Naruto, Rinnegan Sasuke and Kaguya utterly obliterate Madara's PS.


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## Lawrence777 (Feb 9, 2015)

Sabre, it's very difficult to read let alone respond to your post when you don't space and differentiate between one point and the next. I gave you links also to better illustrate why I feel the way I do. 

If your not going to link to anything inside the manga I can see and potentially rebuttal and you are just dropping off your opinion on the matter than I respect that.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 9, 2015)

> -Deidara's C0 explosion was so big that it seemed muuch bigger than a regular bijuudama. However, Deidara's chakra shouldn't be so strong as to damage Madara's PS given his level. If the size of an explosion is the only thing that matters in determining destructive power though then it might damage Madara's PS slightly.



The size of explosion doesnt mean it is as strong as Bijuu Dama, and Madara's PS has been able to withstand full Kurama's Bijuu Dama with no damage at all. C0 didnt kill manda, as i remember.



> -Sasuke's EMS PS might be stronger than Madara's given BZ explanation- on how only those that are strong enough can meet RS- and his PS co-defeating V2 Juubito(with v1 stated to be above Hashi) with BSM Naruto. However, I kinda do not see him destroying Madara's PS with ONE slash. At most moderate damage IMO.



No, Sasuke's PS is not stronger than Madara's It has no feats at all. And the rest is a fantasy. V2 Juubito? Where did you get that from? The fact he meet RS means he is stronger than Madara? And why do you forget Sasuke's Susanoo was impowered with senjutsu to be able to cut down Juubito?



> -BM Naruto and not BSM right? Well, Madara's unstabilized PS resisted 100% Kurama's bijuudama unscratched and it took like tons of Shinsenjuu's huge blows to damage the stabilized form. I say BM Naruto delivers low to moderate damage.



Well, BM Naruto has those big TBB's that are larger than Kurama himself...



> - Guy with Night Guy can probably do a small hole in PS but I'm not sure if it would destroy it. Guy in 8th Gate is much stronger than EMS Madara, but I'm not sure if even Night Guy can completely destroy Madara's PS.



Well, 8 Gate Guy can make a hole in PS without much effort for sure. 



> Everyone else on the list(excepting maybe DMS Kakashi) like RSM Naruto, Rinnegan Sasuke and Kaguya utterly obliterate Madara's PS.



DMS Kakashi destroys it with Kamui shurikens.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 9, 2015)

Arles Celes said:


> Only one attack allowed?
> 
> -Deidara's C0 explosion was so big that it seemed muuch bigger than a regular bijuudama. However, Deidara's chakra shouldn't be so strong as to damage Madara's PS given his level. If the size of an explosion is the only thing that matters in determining destructive power though then it might damage Madara's PS slightly.



 Not even close. Even Manda survived for a bit, long enough not to allow Sasuke to die from the attack.



> -Sasuke's EMS PS might be stronger than Madara's given BZ explanation- on how only those that are strong enough can meet RS- and his PS co-defeating V2 Juubito(with v1 stated to be above Hashi) with BSM Naruto. However, I kinda do not see him destroying Madara's PS with ONE slash. At most moderate damage IMO.



 Sasuke's EMS PS is far inferior. That thing doesn't have the feats to tank Bijuudamas. Madara's V4/ Unstabilized Perfect Susanoo tanked a Bijuudama from 100% Kurama up-front and wasn't even damaged (twist nose, but still ...)

-





> BM Naruto and not BSM right? Well, Madara's unstabilized PS resisted 100% Kurama's bijuudama unscratched and it took like tons of Shinsenjuu's huge blows to damage the stabilized form. I say BM Naruto delivers low to moderate damage.



 Okay, so why do you think EMS Sasuke's PS has more damage output than a powerful Bijuudama from BM Naruto can could match 5 mountain busting Bijuudamas?



> - Guy with Night Guy can probably do a small hole in PS but I'm not sure if it would destroy it. Guy in 8th Gate is much stronger than EMS Madara, but I'm not sure if even Night Guy can completely destroy Madara's PS.



 It crippled Juubidara. No way is PS tanking that.



> Everyone else on the list(excepting maybe DMS Kakashi) like RSM Naruto, Rinnegan Sasuke and Kaguya utterly obliterate Madara's PS.



 Agreed. DMS Kakashi potentially can with Kamui Shurikens that will be able to warp Madara's PS which isn't unlikely as it warped chakra arms that were actually relatively big compared to Sasuke's PS.


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## Bonly (Feb 9, 2015)

Horizon28 said:


> Each person is only allowed to use 1 jutsu or attack
> Madara is in a defensive state.
> 
> Round1:
> ...



Only people that can do it would be everyone in round 2 bar Kakashi. Although Sekizō has five steps so if Gai using it can use all five punches then he could be added with the above but if he only use the first step then nope


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## trance (Feb 9, 2015)

> Deidara



Deidara uses "C0". Madara laughs.



> EMS Sasuke



Nope.



> BM Naruto



His charged bijudama can probably do some damage but I can't see it outright shattering Madara's Perfect Susanoo.



> 1 MS Kakashi



Nope.



> 8G Guy



He can't destroy the whole thing but he can target Madara in the head and snipe him out as well as shatter its limbs or whatever.



> Round2:
> RSM Naruto
> Shrarinnegan Sasuke (No Bujji chakra)
> DMS Kakashi
> Kaguya



All break it with ease.


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## sabre320 (Feb 10, 2015)

Lawrence777 said:


> Sabre, it's very difficult to read let alone respond to your post when you don't space and differentiate between one point and the next. I gave you links also to better illustrate why I feel the way I do.
> 
> If your not going to link to anything inside the manga I can see and potentially rebuttal and you are just dropping off your opinion on the matter than I respect that.



The sword damas were negated by the shinju barrage did that explosion seem like a normal bijudama explosion to u? and most of the punches didnt land because of said bijudama.

ps never took the brunt of the bijudamas damage as they werent directly aimed at it

do you have any proof that the sasukes sussano powered up by both the kyuubi and senjutsu is weaker then a plain ps?

simple bm tanked an attack from the juubi something far above madara and hashirama it overpowered nine bijudama then vaporized the mountain range with ease....then you have senjutsu which you are hilariously downplaying...

the bijudama from the full kyuubi formed an explosion of the same size as the bijuama from any of the bijuu it destroyed one mountain...

mind controlled kyuubi never made giant bijudama while bm naruto casually does so..a emaciated kurama made a bijudama that is a mountain range buster a fresh bm naruto should easily make one three times that do you have any proof ps can survive anything near that?

not to mention a concentrated attack with a much greater yeild is far superior in penetrating defenses then a barrage of attacks with much lower yeild a full magazine from an 9mm machine pistol will not penetrate body armour one ap high density round will go right through...

another example of a t80 you can hit it with 30 gernade launcher rounds consequitively its not gonna be breached hit it with with the same yeild in one shot eg 5 charges of c4 and its scrap metal


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## StarWanderer (Feb 10, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> The sword damas were negated by the shinju barrage did that explosion seem like a normal bijudama explosion to u? and most of the punches didnt land because of said bijudama.
> 
> ps never took the brunt of the bijudamas damage as they werent directly aimed at it
> 
> ...



And do you think PS cant survive some of those super-big Bijuu Damas? PS took full Kurama's Bijuu Dama without any damage at all. Or was it unstabilised Perfect Susanoo?

Anyway, it withstood full Kurama's Bijuu Dama unscratched.


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## Arles Celes (Feb 10, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Not even close. Even Manda survived for a bit, long enough not to allow Sasuke to die from the attack.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nevertheless Deidara's C0 was HUGE. The biggest explosion till Naruto's full power bijuudama clashing with the other bijuus clash. And we do not know how long Manda was subject to it nor do we know how fast one dies after being hit by a bijuudama.
Raruto
Raruto

Said explosion was not much below Juubi's bijuudama in terms of size even if it seems silly to consider that Deidara could possess so much destructive power even in a suicidal attack.

As for Sasuke he added enough power for BSM Naruto to handle Juubito's perfect form. And Hashi admitted inferiority to a weaker form. I think BSM Naruto is around Hashi's level so Sasuke's PS had to greatly contribute to overwhelm Juubito. A weaker PS than Madara's wouldn't even scratch Juubito...SM enhanced PS sword or not. Especially since BSM Naruto's bijuudama couldn't destroy Juubito's gudoudama's wall while Sasuke's SM PS sword destroyed Juubito's ultimate sword. Sasuke's PS lacked feats but it was like as if Kishi tried to portray Naruto's BSM and PS as equal(not counting bijuudamas) as they merged. But as I said I really doubt it would go beyond low damage for Sasuke's PS with just one slash.

BSM Naruto would most likely destroy Madara's PS but I kinda doubt when it comes to just BM. It terms of size 100% Kurama's bijuudama is not so much smaller than BM Naruto's huge bijuudama since 100% Kurama is faaar bigger than 50% Kurama. And Madara's PS tanked it without damage in its unstabilized form.
Raruto

True, Guy's Night Guy might destroy PS if it works like Kaguya's bones and is able to destroy PS without a huge explosion or hole since the jutsu itself is not nukeish. More like a small super arrow that can pierce all.


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## sabre320 (Feb 10, 2015)

Arles Celes said:


> Nevertheless Deidara's C0 was HUGE. The biggest explosion till Naruto's full power bijuudama clashing with the other bijuus clash. And we do not know how long Manda was subject to it nor do we know how fast one dies after being hit by a bijuudama.
> Raruto
> Raruto
> 
> ...



just tell me this if the full kyuubis bijudama was much larger then bm narutos normal bijudama why did it only destroy one mountain like a normal bijudama from any of the bijuu and to think that bijudama iseven close to bm narutos largest bijudama is laughable


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 10, 2015)

Horizon28 said:


> Each person is only allowed to use 1 jutsu or attack
> Madara is in a defensive state.
> 
> Round1:
> ...



They aren't breaking it.  

Most of them would hardly damage his incomplete version.

*RSM Naruto
Shrarinnegan Sasuke (No Bujji chakra)
DMS Kakashi
Kaguya*

Broken with ease.


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## TheGreen1 (Feb 11, 2015)

That Bijudama in that chapter you're showing, that's just a regular Bijudama. Look at the one that BM Naruto used against the 6 Bijuu pouring their power into one bijudama. That's going to bust through PS.


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## Ashi (Feb 11, 2015)

Kyu said:


> BM's Chō BD cracks PS _at least_.
> *
> Senpō: Chō Bijūdama *outright destroys it.
> 
> ...



Some kind of new fanon technique?


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## LostSelf (Feb 11, 2015)

Horizon28 said:


> Each person is only allowed to use 1 jutsu or attack
> Madara is in a defensive state.
> 
> Round1:
> ...



Bold: Surely destroys it.
Underlined: Probably.


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## Kyu (Feb 11, 2015)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Some kind of new fanon technique?



BSM doing .


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## sabre320 (Feb 12, 2015)

Kyu said:


> BSM doing .



thats bm naruto..so imagine bsm lol


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## sabre320 (Feb 12, 2015)

TheGreen1 said:


> That Bijudama in that chapter you're showing, that's just a regular Bijudama. Look at the one that BM Naruto used against the 6 Bijuu pouring their power into one bijudama. That's going to bust through PS.



shhhh...full kuramas bijudama is stronger then bm narutos largest bijudama even though it destroyed one mountain


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## Arles Celes (Feb 12, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> just tell me this if the full kyuubis bijudama was much larger then bm narutos normal bijudama why did it only destroy one mountain like a normal bijudama from any of the bijuu and to think that bijudama iseven close to bm narutos largest bijudama is laughable



Actually I think that BM Naruto's bijuudama was bigger despite 100% Kurama's greater size.

I'm just no sure if it was bigger enough to inflict far greater damage.Which would be necessary given that a weaker unstabilized PS took it with seemingly none or very little damage.

That is where I wonder what could be more important-the size of an explosion or the quality of chakra/power of the guy/s in question.

I kinda do not see BM Naruto quite in Edo Madara's league yet so if it comes to portrayal power then Madara's PS shouldn't be too damaged. However, if the size of explosion is all that matters then maybe he would actually experience mid to heavy damage IMO.


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## ATastyMuffin (Feb 12, 2015)

Arles Celes said:


> Nevertheless Deidara's C0 was HUGE.
> 
> Said explosion was not much below Juubi's bijuudama in terms of size even if it seems silly to consider that Deidara could possess so much destructive power even in a suicidal attack.



You're wrong on such a level that it boggles the mind. The fact that regular-sized buildings are even visible in the C0 scan indicates that the resultant explosion was only multiple kilometers in diameter AT MOST - just eyeballing it, it looks to be around 3-4 km.

Just *regular* Tailed Beast Bombs drastically exceed that size and hit near 6 km - and that's just it's normal size. Tailed Beast Mode Naruto and Gyuki's combination blast was calculated at 100 km in crater diameter and an incomplete Ten-Tails' bomb was shown dwarfing it in scale.

Deidara's suicide attack was small potatoes even compared to your average Tailed Beast.


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## Ersa (Feb 12, 2015)

Wut, you could see the curvature of the planet in the Juubidama explosion.

C0 is not even close.


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## sabre320 (Feb 12, 2015)

Arles Celes said:


> Actually I think that BM Naruto's bijuudama was bigger despite 100% Kurama's greater size.
> 
> I'm just no sure if it was bigger enough to inflict far greater damage.Which would be necessary given that a weaker unstabilized PS took it with seemingly none or very little damage.
> 
> ...



bm naruto can build bijudama around this level rather easily considering an emaciated kurama pulled off similar...that attack was calculated at 100km and that is a concentrated one shot atatck with massive yeild..


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## StarWanderer (Feb 12, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> bm naruto can build bijudama around this level rather easily considering an emaciated kurama pulled off similar...that attack was calculated at 100km and that is a concentrated one shot atatck with massive yeild..



100 kilometers? Realy? I doubt you will reply to me, but people, who can remind me about that 100 kilometers thing? Where was it stated to be that big?


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## Arles Celes (Feb 12, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> You're wrong on such a level that it boggles the mind. The fact that regular-sized buildings are even visible in the C0 scan indicates that the resultant explosion was only multiple kilometers in diameter AT MOST - just eyeballing it, it looks to be around 3-4 km.
> 
> Just *regular* Tailed Beast Bombs drastically exceed that size and hit near 6 km - and that's just it's normal size. Tailed Beast Mode Naruto and Gyuki's combination blast was calculated at 100 km in crater diameter and an incomplete Ten-Tails' bomb was shown dwarfing it in scale.
> 
> Deidara's suicide attack was small potatoes even compared to your average Tailed Beast.



Those buildings look like an actual city and we can see mountains too which look tiny when compared to said explosion.


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## Empathy (Feb 12, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> You're wrong on such a level that it boggles the mind. The fact that regular-sized buildings are even visible in the C0 scan indicates that the resultant explosion was only multiple kilometers in diameter AT MOST - just eyeballing it, it looks to be around 3-4 km.
> 
> Just *regular* Tailed Beast Bombs drastically exceed that size and hit near 6 km - and that's just it's normal size. Tailed Beast Mode Naruto and Gyuki's combination blast was calculated at 100 km in crater diameter and an incomplete Ten-Tails' bomb was shown dwarfing it in scale.
> 
> Deidara's suicide attack was small potatoes even compared to your average Tailed Beast.



It's stated to be 10 kilometers, so it's thrice the diameter of whatever you got by, "_just eyeballing it_." I don't know how their calculations stack up, but just looking at it/eyeballing it, you can see that it dwarfs the multiple mountain ranges and cities surrounding it far and away in width and height. Standard _Bijuudamas_ are only single mountain-busters when they're not supercharged. Furthermore, its hype exceeds _Chibaku Tensei_, which is a mountain-range buster or equivalent to the damage of multiple standard _Bijuudamas_ (1).


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## ATastyMuffin (Feb 13, 2015)

Empathy said:


> It's stated to be 10 kilometers, so it's thrice the diameter of whatever you got by, "_just eyeballing it_." I don't know how their calculations stack up, but just looking at it/eyeballing it,



Actually, calculations peg the blast (well rather, the resulting crater) at 2-3 kilometers, so it's even smaller than what was stated. 



> you can see that it dwarfs the multiple mountain ranges and cities surrounding it far and away in width and height. Standard _Bijuudamas_ are only single mountain-busters when they're not supercharged.



I don't know if this is news to you, but you do know that mountains vary in size, yes?

The mountains the Tailed Beast Bombs vaporized were 5-6 kilometers as calculated. The crater that C0 yielded was 2-3 kilometers, and with a very underwhelming crater depth, to boot. As such, I'll go with the former techniques being drastically superior in firepower - in regards to both scale and energy.



> Furthermore, its hype exceeds _Chibaku Tensei_, which is a mountain-range buster or equivalent to the damage of multiple standard _Bijuudamas_ (1).



Exceeds the hype of Planetary Devastation? What hype does that even have that can be measured to C0? Planetary Devastation doesn't have a numerical measurement attached to it. They can't be compared.



Arles Celes said:


> Those buildings look like an actual city and we can see mountains too which look tiny when compared to said explosion.



Buildings are buildings. The fact that they're visible at all speaks volumes about its relative inadequacy relative to something like the Ten-Tails' Tailed Beast Bomb.

As someone mentioned previously, the planet's curvature was visible when it detonated. Deidara's C0 is a bundle of M80 firecrackers by comparison.


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## Arles Celes (Feb 13, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Actually, calculations peg the blast (well rather, the resulting crater) at 2-3 kilometers, so it's even smaller than what was stated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well, according to Deidara's own calculations it is around 10 km.
_aren't being protected by Katsuyu_

So at the very least at least twice the radius of a normal bijudama.

And MUCH taller than a mountain.
Link removed


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 13, 2015)

Just because a character say something doesn't make it true. It's even more iffy since deidara is so precise about his calculations yet it's a suicidal jutsu he can't study the actual effects of since he would be dead. 

The hachibi was the size of the smallest juubi's hand and well

Yeah that's a bigger juubi compared to the explosion from a far away distance. Deidara wish he could do something like that. Calculations are just a precise way showing how far the juubi is compared to deidara we don't even need to resort to them to see the difference.


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## Arles Celes (Feb 13, 2015)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Just because a character say something doesn't make it true. It's even more iffy since deidara is so precise about his calculations yet it's a suicidal jutsu he can't study the actual effects of since he would be dead.
> 
> The hachibi was the size of the smallest juubi's hand and well
> 
> Yeah that's a bigger juubi compared to the explosion from a far away distance. Deidara wish he could do something like that. Calculations are just a precise way showing how far the juubi is compared to deidara we don't even need to resort to them to see the difference.



Guy couldn't study Night Guy either since its a suicidal jutsu and yet knew how to execute it.

Sasuke did no training with bijuus and yet could use Indra's arrow with no practice.

Some characters are just omniscient in a way possibly working as author's mouthpieces in specific occasions to explain stuff. Might look for the DB3 to confirm Deidara's estimations though.

But yeah, it is likely that a Juubidama is quite bigger than Deidara's C0.

Though I still think Deidara's explosion eclipses normal bijuudamas. His C3 supposedly could destroy Suna and yet it clearly got to be weaker than C0.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 13, 2015)

Size of the explosion is irrelevant in this case as C0 is already portrayed to be piss weak, not even strong enough to kill Manda instantaneously yet Kakashi pisses himself at the power of Bijuudamas that effortlessly destroyed mountains.


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## sabre320 (Feb 14, 2015)

is someone seriously comparing deidaras c0 to juubidama:/


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## Ashi (Feb 14, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> thats bm naruto..so imagine bsm lol



Do you not see Bee next to him


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## sabre320 (Feb 15, 2015)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Do you not see Bee next to him



1

an emaciated kurama with most of its chakra stolen was able to do this you really think bm naruto isnt capable of that


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## Shinobi no Kami (Feb 15, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Link removed
> 
> an emaciated kurama with most of its chakra stolen was able to do this you really think bm naruto isnt capable of that



what kurama used there is not equal to what naruto and bee used against the gedo mazo.

what naruto and bee used against the gedo mazo was a fully powered kurama bijudama+fully powered hachibi bijudama.
naruto using that bijudama on his lonesome is nonsense. this just seems like naruto wank which seems to be the norm currently,


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## sabre320 (Feb 15, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> what kurama used there is not equal to what naruto and bee used against the gedo mazo.
> 
> what naruto and bee used against the gedo mazo was a fully powered kurama bijudama+fully powered hachibi bijudama.
> naruto using that bijudama on his lonesome is nonsense. this just seems like naruto wank which seems to be the norm currently,



lol sure kami sama if kurama was capable of that while most if its chakra stolen and is literally bones a fresh bm naruto making a bijudama that size is wank

and hashirama surviving quad juubidama is completely accurate


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## Shinobi no Kami (Feb 15, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> lol sure kami sama if kurama was capable of that while most if its chakra stolen and is literally bones a fresh bm naruto making a bijudama that size is wank
> 
> and hashirama surviving quad juubidama is completely accurate



you can only put so much power into a technique. naruto and bee put everything that they had into that bijudama, but they still had chakra afterwards.

BM naruto cannot create a bijudama that is more powerful than what kurama himself can do. 
BM narutos bijudama=50% kuramas bijudama.

in conclusion, naruto himself creating a bijudama that took kuramas full power+hachibis full power to create is nothing but wank.


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## Veracity (Feb 15, 2015)

Did someone just fucking put calculations over a character statement that specifically labels the size of the explosion? It's laughable to actually believe those inconsistent calculations. FRS was calculated at like over Mach 20, yet at 10m away from Deva pain took more than a second to pass him by pains own admission& then the ones that makes calculations claim his counting was an outlier ? Lol ridiculous. Deidaras explosion is 10km, it's really as simple that. He doesn't need to be alive to know the size of the explosion in the same manner at that Gai and Lee know all the 8th gate techniques. Now that's not to say that C0 is comparable to a Juubidama or a Bjuiidama in any way lol. It's not even a comparable.


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## sabre320 (Feb 15, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> you can only put so much power into a technique. naruto and bee put everything that they had into that bijudama, but they still had chakra afterwards.
> 
> BM naruto cannot create a bijudama that is more powerful than what kurama himself can do.
> BM narutos bijudama=50% kuramas bijudama.
> ...



bijudama is a technique that grows on the basis of how much chakra you put in it...
50% kurama while skin and bones with most of its chakra stolen still eeked out enough chakra to build a bijudama multiple times its size a fresh 50%kurama is thus capable of much more and bm naruto in a mixture of narutos and kuramas chakra:/


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 15, 2015)

Likes boss said:


> Did someone just fucking put calculations over a character statement that specifically labels the size of the explosion? It's laughable to actually believe those inconsistent calculations. FRS was calculated at like over Mach 20, yet at 10m away from Deva pain took more than a second to pass him by pains own admission& then the ones that makes calculations claim his counting was an outlier ? Lol ridiculous. Deidaras explosion is 10km, it's really as simple that. He doesn't need to be alive to know the size of the explosion in the same manner at that Gai and Lee know all the 8th gate techniques. Now that's not to say that C0 is comparable to a Juubidama or a Bjuiidama in any way lol. It's not even a comparable.



 This.

 Deidara outright stated it covers a radius of 10km and that was never contradicted.

 Didn't Deidara also use C0 against Team Gai and Team Kakashi, so wouldn't he know how big the explosion is? He also calculated Sasuke's range to be 5m just by dodging Sasuke's Chidori Eisou, so it's not surprising if Deidara's calculations would be correct.

 @Sabre

 I agree with you. It's clear that the more chakra you put into a Bijuudama, the more powerful it would be. This is why we see him using smaller Bijuudamas against Juubito (notably when Sasuke shot an arrow at Juubito) that was significantly smaller than his Avatar while he was also capable of using a Bijuudama that matched the size of 5 Bijuudamas combined. The more chakra you put into it, the stronger it will be. I thought that was pretty obvious.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Feb 15, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> bijudama is a technique that grows on the basis of how much chakra you put in it...


and only so much can be put into it as shown when naruto and bee charged their strongest bijudama yet still had chakra left. a biju cant put every ounce of its chakra into one bijudama.



> 50% kurama while skin and bones with most of its chakra stolen still eeked out enough chakra to build a bijudama multiple times its size a fresh 50%kurama is thus capable of much more


thats irrelevant since you cant prove that fresh kurama can make a bigger bijudama and i have already proven that there is a limit to how much chakra that can be put into bijudama.




> and bm naruto in a mixture of narutos and kuramas chakra:/


doesnt matter since narutos chakra plays no role in forming a bijudama only kuramas. the only chakra used is biju chakra.

bijudama can only be formed with biju chakra.


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## Ashi (Feb 15, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> you can only put so much power into a technique. naruto and bee put everything that they had into that bijudama, but they still had chakra afterwards.
> 
> BM naruto cannot create a bijudama that is more powerful than what kurama himself can do.
> BM narutos bijudama=50% kuramas bijudama.
> ...



Wasn't it proven Tailed Beast + Jinchurikki > Tailed Beast?

Eight Tails said so himself


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## Shinobi no Kami (Feb 15, 2015)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Wasn't it proven Tailed Beast + Jinchurikki > Tailed Beast?
> 
> Eight Tails said so himself



he said that for a juubi jin, not every jinchuriki. the biju can focus their own power. the juubi cannot for whatever reason.

its not the same with the other biju where the full power of the jinchuriki is just them releasing their biju and working with them.


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## Empathy (Feb 15, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Actually, calculations peg the blast (well rather, the resulting crater) at 2-3 kilometers, so it's even smaller than what was stated.



It'd be nice if you could include the links to the evidence you keep referring to. Nevertheless, I think calculations go into meticulous oversight in which the author isn't considering when drawing every inch of every panel. They're really only useful when scaling other series to each other. Furthermore, it's stated to be ten kilometers and it is presented as fact. There's no point in disputing it. 



> I don't know if this is news to you, but you do know that mountains vary in size, yes?
> 
> The mountains the Tailed Beast Bombs vaporized were 5-6 kilometers as calculated. The crater that C0 yielded was 2-3 kilometers, and with a very underwhelming crater depth, to boot. As such, I'll go with the former techniques being drastically superior in firepower - in regards to both scale and energy.



How do you know that mountains are arbitrarily drawn smaller or larger than others? Who's to say that the mountains the _Bijuudamas_ hit weren't smaller? Mountains are used in this manga to indicate the scale of many jutsu and should be assumed as consistent in size with others. There's no reason to put so much faith in complex math derived from counting pixels and scaling from inches, when those things wouldn't be discernible to an intended casual reader (but a mountain-sized jutsu certainly would) and definitely aren't being factored into consideration by the author when drawing them, nor are they even intended to compare a manga to itself. An overhead view of a full ten kilometer crater would make it seem pretty weak in depth. One of Madara's perfect _Susanoo_ slashes doesn't even come close to making ten kilometers of earth disappear into a crater, and it's not like one of perfect _Susanoo's_ own slashes couldn't even damage itself slightly.



> Exceeds the hype of Planetary Devastation? What hype does that even have that can be measured to C0? Planetary Devastation doesn't have a numerical measurement attached to it. They can't be compared.



In an interview, Kishimoto stated Edo Deidara to be potentially the most dangerous of _Edo Tensei_ due to his ability to spam _C0_ (this was presumably before the Edo Madara reveal). That means he thought Edo Deidara to be greater in destructive capacity than an Edo Nagato with the ability to spam _Chibaku Tensei_ with limitless chakra; a jutsu which was a single mountain range in size, while _C0_ eclipsed multiple mountain ranges, mind you. How some single mountains would be arbitrarily drawn larger than entire mountain ranges is beyond my comprehension. Never mind those mountains' size relative to the surrounding cities. [_Link_]


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