# Superman (Normal) vs. Hulk (Normal)



## lucky (Jul 6, 2005)

I know that Supes beat Hulk in the crossover, but alot of the crossover fights were so gay.  Like STorm beating WW and Wolverine beating Lobo.  


But i want to know what people think of this fight.  They're both 'normal', this is post-crisis superman and normal green hulk.

I think physically Superman is at least on par with Hulk, if not marginally inferior.  But Superman has much more variety in powers.  So i'll give it to the big Boy in Blue.


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## Insipidipity (Jul 6, 2005)

I think Superman has to be weaker, but makes up for it with his other abilities(flight, etc.)  In an allout fight, Superman would probably die a much more painful death than against Doomsday.  He lacks regenerative abilities which would be his downfall.


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## Viciousness (Jul 6, 2005)

But how fast is hulk compared to supes? Couldnt Superman hit him like 1000 times and dodge every blow from hulk if hes capable of running around the world 8 times in a second or something?
People were saying Supermans speed made Goku's and his instantaneous teleportation look like crap. Then again come to think of it hulks fought people fast as hell before and wound up knocking them around like ragdolls once he gets in a fight long enough his reflexes go up along with his power. So Id say hulk


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## Insipidipity (Jul 6, 2005)

Except we've seen normal hulk somehow manage to take on and hit with amazing accuracy, things much much faster than he.  Its just one of his abilities I guess.  BTW, I say Hulk is stronger for 2 reasons:  1, his entire being is formed from the desire to be strong and strength is pretty much his main thing.  Superman is a jack of all trades while Hulk is the god of ungodly strength and 2.  he can keep getting stronger.


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## lucky (Jul 6, 2005)

DrunkenYoshimaster said:
			
		

> People were saying Supermans speed made Goku's and his instantaneous teleportation look like crap.



Lol superman prime, then yeah i can believe it.  But otherwise, i don't think superman is faster than Goku's IT.  Long distances, anways.  In the anime, Goku 'fizzles' a bit before teleporting, so i can see how superman can fly faster than goku fizzling. 




			
				Insipidipity said:
			
		

> In an allout fight, Superman would probably die a much more painful death than against Doomsday.  He lacks regenerative abilities which would be his downfall.



nahhh.  while i think the hulk is stronger than doomsday, when doomsday fought superman he made sure to make the fight as tortorous as possible.  He's kind of a sadist. :xp  Like instead of punching him, he'd use his bones to cut up superman, just to make him hurt more.


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## korican04 (Jul 6, 2005)

Superman can do a lot more than the hulk. Although Hulk's strength baselevel is lower than supes, he gets stronger the madder he gets so no upper limit, superman hasn't shown an upper limit yet either though. 
In a fight superman would have a tough time with the green machine, but hulk would be frustrated as hell if superman decided to go 99% lightspeed. Or shoot from afar hulk with his heat vision which would just keep piercing him but regenerates at the same time. The issue with superman is that he fight in space also, so that gives him an edge. Where he can bring the fight to outer space (which he does a lot) if he wanted to and that would make the Hulk a suffocating dull while not dying. Who knows.

(i'm assuming this fight is with post-crisis superman)

On a side note, I recently read wrath of gog, and superman is a jerk bahahaha, he just punched darkseid to the ground and just starting talking smack, but his powers are going hey wire again, it's getting good.


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## Insipidipity (Jul 6, 2005)

korican04 said:
			
		

> Superman can do a lot more than the hulk. Although Hulk's strength baselevel is lower than supes, he gets stronger the madder he gets so no upper limit, superman hasn't shown an upper limit yet either though.
> In a fight superman would have a tough time with the green machine, but hulk would be frustrated as hell if superman decided to go 99% lightspeed. Or shoot from afar hulk with his heat vision which would just keep piercing him but regenerates at the same time. The issue with superman is that he fight in space also, so that gives him an edge. Where he can bring the fight to outer space (which he does a lot) if he wanted to and that would make the Hulk a suffocating dull while not dying. Who knows.
> 
> (i'm assuming this fight is with post-crisis superman)


Hulk is about the same as doomsday so I dont think superman can win just by going into space.  Plus frustrating the hulk isn't a good idea.  Remember that he becomes increasingly invulnerable with his anger as well as regenerative.  Heat vision might hurt him but eventually do nothing.  Superman hasn't shown his upperlimit, but he has one.  On the otherhand, Hulk doesn't.


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## Takuza (Jul 6, 2005)

well, is ther NO LIMIT to how angry the Hulk can get?


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## korican04 (Jul 6, 2005)

Insipidipity said:
			
		

> Hulk is about the same as doomsday so I dont think superman can win just by going into space.  Plus frustrating the hulk isn't a good idea.  Remember that he becomes increasingly invulnerable with his anger as well as regenerative.  Heat vision might hurt him but eventually do nothing.  Superman hasn't shown his upperlimit, but he has one.  On the otherhand, Hulk doesn't.


mmmm, not sure about that. Hulk gets cut up a lot by adamantium (which i'm not saying it's the same as heat vision) and doesn't become invulnerable to the same attacks. When he gets madder he gets stronger, i don't recall when his regenerative powers gained strength cause he got madder. superman's heat vision is as hot as the inside of the sun, so that would mean hulk would be invulnerable to being through the sun cause he gets mad, which maybe is true but i haven't read in any comic that he gains regenerative powers.
Also what is superman's upperlimit?

^to the above, hulk just gets madder and madder...so not really. lol, he does get played around with by the surfer, and hulk got mad, but there is nothing he can really do anyways against SS.


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## Viciousness (Jul 6, 2005)

j0e-sama said:
			
		

> Lol superman prime, then yeah i can believe it.  But otherwise, i don't think superman is faster than Goku's IT.  Long distances, anways.  In the anime, Goku 'fizzles' a bit before teleporting, so i can see how superman can fly faster than goku fizzling.
> .



Yeah I didnt see how it was possible either, but I think it was code who pointed out in the dbz manga it says goku's teleportation moves at the speed of light, While Supes is actually faster than the speed of light or something.

Still Kibito and Kaioubito's teleportation has got to be way faster since its range is telporting billions of miles to distant planets with no limits instantly, and Buu stole the technique to start taking out planets one by one.

I wonder about Hulk hitting fast things. Was it an incoming rocket he held his hands back to bat away? If so that means hes really accurate at hitting something with predictable movement.But the way Goku fights his hands and body are moving like a mile a minutehitting like 1000 times a second faster than the eye can see, and if Supermans fighting speed is supposedly supposed to be faster than that, will hulk really be able to keep up and dish out punches at that speed continously?


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## lucky (Jul 6, 2005)

nah superman isn't faster than light-speed... at least not normal superman.  Superman Prime is rediculous... but normal superman has sublight speeds.  He just doesn't move that fast on earth because of fear of destruction to the environment.  He's like... around at least mach 10 on earth usually.


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## Insipidipity (Jul 6, 2005)

korican04 said:
			
		

> mmmm, not sure about that. Hulk gets cut up a lot by adamantium (which i'm not saying it's the same as heat vision) and doesn't become invulnerable to the same attacks. When he gets madder he gets stronger, i don't recall when his regenerative powers gained strength cause he got madder. superman's heat vision is as hot as the inside of the sun, so that would mean hulk would be invulnerable to being through the sun cause he gets mad, which maybe is true but i haven't read in any comic that he gains regenerative powers.
> Also what is superman's upperlimit?
> 
> ^to the above, hulk just gets madder and madder...so not really. lol, he does get played around with by the surfer, and hulk got mad, but there is nothing he can really do anyways against SS.


I meant in the same fight.  If he kept getting cut up, he'd get angrier every time it regenerated until he was mad enough that it had no effect.  Not an immunity like Doomsday, but just the fact that he gets stronger when he's mad makes it so that if its pissing him off, he'll get mad enough that it stops hurting him eventually.  When he calms down, he'll be vulnerable to it again but thats different.

Seriously, the only way superman could beat him is to tickle him to death.


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## Viciousness (Jul 6, 2005)

Insipidipity said:
			
		

> Seriously, the only way superman could beat him is to tickle him to death.



Juggs is like at least on par with hulk in most of their encounters I thought, and he got beat by thor when he swung him into the far reaches of space, while he was holding the end of a pole. Isnt supes fast enough to  Somehow fling the ground hes standing on far far away, and thatd probably be considered a victory like Thor vs Juggs was.


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## Kamendex (Jul 7, 2005)

DrunkenYoshimaster said:
			
		

> But how fast is hulk compared to supes? Couldnt Superman hit him like 1000 times and dodge every blow from hulk if hes capable of running around the world 8 times in a second or something?
> People were saying Supermans speed made Goku's and his instantaneous teleportation look like crap.



The one thing Gokuu has going for him is his Instantaneous Movement. It is INSTANT....faster than anything any comic/anime character can go.....it's INSTANT....the only bad thing is that it takes time to lock on to a ki source.

Edit: I take that back....apparently the Flash outran Instantaneous Travel...


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## Viciousness (Jul 7, 2005)

Kamendex said:
			
		

> The one thing Gokuu has going for him is his Instantaneous Movement. It is INSTANT....faster than anything any comic/anime character can go.....it's INSTANT....the only bad thing is that it takes time to lock on to a ki source.
> 
> Edit: I take that back....apparently the Flash outran Instantaneous Travel...



lol didnt one flash go so fast he went backwards in time? See DC gets simply ridiculous sometimes.
And I thought Instantaneous was instant too, but Code or someone seemed to think it was exactly the speed of light, which superman or superman prime seems to have gone faster than or something. But is supermans fighting speed really as fast as goku? sure he can run faster but when he battles people is he really dodging and throwing like 1000 punches and kicks a second like Goku? Or have slow but super strong people hit him before? I know supes has dodged bullets for no good reason before, but does he really do those types of movements in the heat of battle, or just when he decides to go running or something?

Cuz Goku goes leaving trail images of himself and stuff ever since he was a kid. But this is about hulk, and I dont really think hulk throws that many punches in a short amount of time or dodges that quick, so if Superman does like Goku does then Id have to hand it to him. Even if Hulk can throw one quick and super accurate punch when he sees a really fast target coming.


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## Luffy2692 (Jul 7, 2005)

also, since the hulk can be harmed by some fire arms that the military has used. superman is mildly, if at all, affected at all by any thing along the lines of standard human development


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## Insipidipity (Jul 7, 2005)

Luffy2692 said:
			
		

> also, since the hulk can be harmed by some fire arms that the military has used. superman is mildly, if at all, affected at all by any thing along the lines of standard human development


The military has designed things specially to fight the hulk, superman doesn't even have that honor.  Besides, the thing about superman is, if the military didn't like him, they could just fire a kryptonite bullet at him.


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## Kamendex (Jul 7, 2005)

DrunkenYoshimaster said:
			
		

> lol didnt one flash go so fast he went backwards in time? See DC gets simply ridiculous sometimes.
> And I thought Instantaneous was instant too, but Code or someone seemed to think it was exactly the speed of light, which superman or superman prime seems to have gone faster than or something. But is supermans fighting speed really as fast as goku? sure he can run faster but when he battles people is he really dodging and throwing like 1000 punches and kicks a second like Goku? Or have slow but super strong people hit him before? I know supes has dodged bullets for no good reason before, but does he really do those types of movements in the heat of battle, or just when he decides to go running or something?
> 
> Cuz Goku goes leaving trail images of himself and stuff ever since he was a kid. But this is about hulk, and I dont really think hulk throws that many punches in a short amount of time or dodges that quick, so if Superman does like Goku does then Id have to hand it to him. Even if Hulk can throw one quick and super accurate punch when he sees a really fast target coming.




Well Code is wrong....stupid FUNimation said that Instantaneous Movement was 186,000 miles per second....which is the speed of light. But that was a dub line....its not even canon. It's instant.

Also, in one fight Superman was fighting so fast he was leaving sonic booms...so the fighting speed shouldnt be a factor.


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## Insipidipity (Jul 7, 2005)

Well somehow Maestro took out the Silver Surfer, so the slightly physically inferior Hulk shouldn't really have any problem taking on superman's speed.


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## lucky (Jul 7, 2005)

well we don't exactly know how Maestro beat Silver Surfer... cuz from what i gathered hanging around here, even Maestro shouldn't be able to beat Silver Surfer.


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## Bullet (Jan 24, 2006)

lucky said:
			
		

> well we don't exactly know how Maestro beat Silver Surfer... cuz from what i gathered hanging around here, even Maestro shouldn't be able to beat Silver Surfer.



He shouldn't be able to beat Surfer going all out (useing all his abilities, he could use energy blasts, put up force fields, drain the radiation from him and fly), but in a physical fight Hulk will beat Surfer.

As for this match, Superman takes it.


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## Reznor (Jan 24, 2006)

> The military has designed things specially to fight the hulk, superman doesn't even have that honor. Besides, the thing about superman is, if the military didn't like him, they could just fire a kryptonite bullet at him.


 Supes can dodge.

Hulk has to rely on durability/regen.


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## konflikti (Jan 24, 2006)

If Supes plays smart(like he should) he wins. KO or disabling. If he plays around(doesn't go for the kill) he loses.


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## Scorpio3.14 (Jan 24, 2006)

Superman wins. Supes is stronger then base Hulk, waaaaay faster then base Hulk, its a given that hes smarter then base Hulk , and has a much wider variety of powers then the Hulk. Hulk is going down, hard.


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## Rangamaru (Jan 24, 2006)

During a crossover, I'm pretty sure supes beat the Hulk, but I thought it was BS. There is no way in my mind that the Hulk would lose.


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## Bullet (Jan 24, 2006)

Rangamaru said:
			
		

> During a crossover, I'm pretty sure supes beat the Hulk, but I thought it was BS. There is no way in my mind that the Hulk would lose.




How can Hulk win? Superman has every single advantage over Hulk. I don't go by crossovers, but even in there own comics, Superman is superior. The only way Superman whould lose, is if he forgets his abilities and just stand still.


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## Rangamaru (Jan 24, 2006)

Nope. The Hulk heals faster than supes.


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## Bullet (Jan 24, 2006)

Rangamaru said:
			
		

> Nope. The Hulk heals faster than supes.



He can be KOed though and can be badly wounded too, slowing down his healing factor.


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## Tousenz (Jan 24, 2006)

Hulk catching Silver Surfer's board musta just been bad writing. He doesnt move nearly that fast + all that muscle would slow him down wouldnt it.

I give it to SuperMan.


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## pnoypridz (Jan 24, 2006)

Insipidipity said:
			
		

> Well somehow Maestro took out the Silver Surfer, so the slightly physically inferior Hulk shouldn't really have any problem taking on superman's speed.



give me a scan of Maestro beating surfer or even just give me the issue #

cuase im pretty sure maestro never fought silver surfer


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 24, 2006)

Why was this dug up again?

It's been proven that Juggernaut can knock out base Hulk, Superman is at least as stronga as a base Juggernaut not utilizing his upper limits, and much faster.

Superman would KO Hulk, doubtful he could kill him though.


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## unknowndanex (Jan 24, 2006)

well base superman is no way near as strong as base juggs back then considering juggs is damn near limitless in strength.  in a straight up fight hulk would win considering superman couldn't do anything short of trying to suffocate him in space, and that prolly wouldn't work considering hulk would power out the hold.  

sorry to dissapoint DrunkenYoshimaster, but Thor did not in fact beat Juggs.  They fought twice, they both had Thor gettin his ass handed to him.  The fight u are referring to is when Thor first knocked out mystical energies and started taking to juggs but when his hammer returned Juggs kicked his ass somemore.  So Thor tied the hammer around Juggs hands and tossed him into space, thats not really a win, thats more of just giving himself time to get the hell outta there.

back to the matter at hand:  superman doesn't have many abilities other than speed that should help him against the hulk.  if doomsday who was basically a DC version of Hulk but a bit weaker could kick superman's ass, then i know hulk could as well.  in fact Doomsday took out the Justice League with one hand tied behind his back, but that's a different story.  Considering Doomsday only gets stronger after death and Hulk gets stronger just from getting mad, it would take more than Superman to take him on.  Can't really compare him losing to SS considering the Power Cosmic Surfer uses packs a bigger punch than Superman's projectile attacks.

Oh yeah and Hulk's healing does increase when he's enraged because his powers are adrenaline based basically, and when he's enraged his adrenaline pumps even faster.


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## Scorpio3.14 (Jan 24, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> doomsday who was basically a DC version of Hulk



Thats pretty much where you went wrong  Doomsday would hand Hulk his ass on a platter. We would have to be talking about an extremely enraged Hulk or mindless Hulk for him to be better then Doomsday.


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## unknowndanex (Jan 24, 2006)

not really, Doomsdays strength when fighting Superman was the same level as Superman's including reflexes in endurance.  Doomsday wouldn't beat the Hulk, and of course Hulk would be pretty damn mad considering he always gets mad during a battle.  I mean, if Doomsday dies he gets stronger and thats great, but like i said Hulk gets stronger from just getting mad.  Doomsday is kinda overrated, he was only on even scale with post-crisis superman during their fight.

*Superman wins. Supes is stronger then base Hulk, waaaaay faster then base Hulk, its a given that hes smarter then base Hulk , and has a much wider variety of powers then the Hulk. Hulk is going down, hard.*

Being stronger than base Hulk doesn't mean Superman would knock Hulk quickly considering Hulk's regenerative factor is too fast for that.  Hulk would get enraged rather quickly giving the power of Superman's hits.  Hulk fights people faster than him all the time, but his reflexes always helps him out.  Superman's other powers aren't much help really.  You based Superman beating Hulk on the variety of his powers and yet Doomsday doesn't have that.  He's just strong, has high endurance, and fast reflexes (sounds like someone i've read in marvel), but his strength is limited to how many times he dies, and he doesn't have a regenerative factor, he only regenerates after death.


Also to clear it up, Maestro wasn't shown fighting Surfer, but his broken board was shown in Maestro's trophy room of people he killed.  But its not wise to refer to that because it also had the Cosmic Cube and the Infinity Gauntlet in it.  Aside from that he had Thor's hammer, couple of IronMan's suits along with others.  It was kinda stupid to have that trophy room considering nothing can break Surfer's board and if Maestro had the IG and Cosmic Cube he would rule the universe.


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## lucky (Jan 24, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> well base superman is no way near as strong as base juggs back then considering juggs is damn near limitless in strength.  in a straight up fight hulk would win considering superman couldn't do anything short of trying to suffocate him in space, and that prolly wouldn't work considering hulk would power out the hold.
> 
> 
> back to the matter at hand:  superman doesn't have many abilities other than speed that should help him against the hulk.
> ...



hulk might power out of the hold, but htat doesn't necessarily mean he'll 'fly' back to earth.  And what could he do if superman tosses him into the sun?  

Superman has much more than speed on him... superman's most essential asset in this fight would be his brain.  superman's beaten groups of people more powerful than him just by using his brain.  He's a scientist.  He's not like hulk, who's virtually all hit hit punch punch power power.  


Superman using his brain to fight:














Hulk has accelerated regeneration, that's for sure.  He still can bleed and be punctured... there was a scan of Gladiator burning a hole through his chest faster than he could heal it.  There's nothing stopping superman from lobotomizing his mendulla oblongata or wutever it is (turning him back into banner) and then knocking him out before he reverts back to the hulk.


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## Tousenz (Jan 24, 2006)

Deadpool *beat* base hulk. Lets just chalk up it for Super-Man.  



Quick Question: If Superman can move 99% the speed of light, and has x-ray and telescopic vision.... how does he ever allow him self to get near kryptonite in the first place?


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## pnoypridz (Jan 24, 2006)

Beyonder said:
			
		

> Deadpool *beat* base hulk. Lets just chalk up it for Super-Man.
> 
> 
> 
> Quick Question: If Superman can move 99% the speed of light, and has x-ray and telescopic vision.... how does he ever allow him self to get near kryptonite in the first place?



cause the writer wants to


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## Shiron (Jan 24, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> Also to clear it up, Maestro wasn't shown fighting Surfer, but his broken board was shown in Maestro's trophy room of people he killed.  But its not wise to refer to that because it also had the Cosmic Cube and the Infinity Gauntlet in it.  Aside from that he had Thor's hammer, couple of IronMan's suits along with others.  It was kinda stupid to have that trophy room considering nothing can break Surfer's board and if Maestro had the IG and Cosmic Cube he would rule the universe.


I thought it was cleared up that that wasn't Maestro's trophy room, but just the Avengers' hide-out on one of these threads. But I could be wrong.


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## Green Lantern (Jan 25, 2006)

Meijin no Kori said:
			
		

> I thought it was cleared up that that wasn't Maestro's trophy room, but just the Avengers' hide-out on one of these threads. But I could be wrong.



It was the rebel's hideout, NOT Maestro's trophy room- this was a fallacy spread around a long time back, as people only saw that one page- If you actually read the Hulk comic the Future Imperfect, you will realise this.

So just to reiterate Maestro DID NOT beat all the heroes on the Earth, it was a large scale planetary war which wiped out all of the heroes. Maestro was the only one to survive the war, and he went crazy and became a dictator. No where in the comic is it mentioned that he defeated or even fought any of the heroes.
(And as to how a cosmic cube and the IG are in the room, and yet no one uses them, I assume that is poor writing on the writer's part)

As for this battle Superman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hulk

Hulk smashes, Superman devastates


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## acritarch (Jan 25, 2006)

Both at base, Supes wins easily.


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## lucky (Jan 25, 2006)

Beyonder said:
			
		

> Deadpool *beat* base hulk. Lets just chalk up it for Super-Man.



how did deadpool beat hulk?  i'd like to hear about this one... that and why some people think wolverine > hulk.




			
				Beyonder said:
			
		

> Quick Question: If Superman can move 99% the speed of light, and has x-ray and telescopic vision.... how does he ever allow him self to get near kryptonite in the first place?



lead.


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## unknowndanex (Jan 25, 2006)

lucky said:
			
		

> hulk might power out of the hold, but htat doesn't necessarily mean he'll 'fly' back to earth.  And what could he do if superman tosses him into the sun?
> 
> Superman has much more than speed on him... superman's most essential asset in this fight would be his brain.  superman's beaten groups of people more powerful than him just by using his brain.  He's a scientist.  He's not like hulk, who's virtually all hit hit punch punch power power.
> 
> ...




um, hulk beat the hell outta gladiator. Gladiator was shooting his chest, and the whole time Hulk was talking to him.  He then grabbed Gladiators face and made the eye beams feedback into his face which really hurt him.  And to compare Gladiator with Post-Crisis Superman is a discredit to Glads.  This guy is traversing Galaxies in seconds, he is more of a Pre-Crisis Superman based character.  Gladiator also stated that if he knew Hulk was on the planet he would've requested for the planet to be destroyed just to take out the Hulk.

Doomsday is all hit hit, punch, punch, but he did contribute quite of bit to the Death of Superman story.  If he fought Hulk it would be another version of that, but Hulk would probably win quicker considering his anger would make him stronger than Doomsday relatively quickly.  Oh yeah, from the above info, it wouldn't be a good idea for Superman to use that heat vision from a certain distance.


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## Scorpio3.14 (Jan 25, 2006)

Lets forget about strength for a minute here, Supes dosnt even need it to KO/kill the Hulk.

1. Superman can just fry him with his heat vision in the first few seconds of the fight before Hulk gets to mad and his super insane healing factor kicks in. Superman's heat vision can reach temperatures as hot as the surface of the sun, Im pretty sure thats hot enough to take down the hulk. Or he could use his heat vision to lobotomize Hulk. Take your pick.

2. Suck the air out of the hulk's lungs and watch him pass out. Last I checked Hulk needed air to breath?

3. Vibrate through hulks head and rip out his brain. Yep, Superman can vibrate through things similar to the Flash, only he dosnt make things explode. Still effective though. I doubt Hulk can regenerate his own brain 

Thats only 3 ways off the top of my head. Supes has more in his arsenal too. This is of course assumeing Superman cant just beat Hulk into unconsiousness which I personally think he could.


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## lucky (Jan 25, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> um, hulk beat the hell outta gladiator. Gladiator was shooting his chest, and the whole time Hulk was talking to him.  He then grabbed Gladiators face and made the eye beams feedback into his face which really hurt him.  And to compare Gladiator with Post-Crisis Superman is a discredit to Glads.  This guy is traversing Galaxies in seconds, he is more of a Pre-Crisis Superman based character.  Gladiator also stated that if he knew Hulk was on the planet he would've requested for the planet to be destroyed just to take out the Hulk.
> 
> Doomsday is all hit hit, punch, punch, but he did contribute quite of bit to the Death of Superman story.  If he fought Hulk it would be another version of that, but Hulk would probably win quicker considering his anger would make him stronger than Doomsday relatively quickly.  Oh yeah, from the above info, it wouldn't be a good idea for Superman to use that heat vision from a certain distance.




... i just brought up gladiator's eyebeams to prove the point that hulk's skin/bone can be penetrated and htat superman has the means to do it.  What does that have to do with superman > gladiator or gladiator > supes?

Superman's heat vision's temperature is as hot as the sun's (outer layer 11,000 F) while Hulk's skin only takes up to 3,000 F before blistering. ()

Superman flew through the fucking sun. (Sun's core at 27,000,000 F).  If hulk tries to use his hands to cover the heat vision chances are his hands will be fried long before superman's face.

oh and the thing about doomsday vs. hulk.  Doomsday doesn't need to breathe and his skin doesn't break like hulk's.  I've only seen doomsday's insides once... his flesh was disintegrated by a blast from imperiex and only his skeleton was left.  Other than that he once coughed out some blood after a killing blow from superman.  He isn't as fragile as the hulk who's always bleeding all over the place.   

Sure his anger 'might' make him stronger... but it's not like superman doesn't have the power or means to knock him out before he gets to that point.

So yeah... base superman is factually faster, smarter, and more durable. (I'd like to think that he's stronger too but i'll leave that one out.)  On top of his more variety in powers, he also has MUCH more possible methods of stopping the hulk (lobotomy, KO through brute force, tossing him into space/sun, vibrating, etc) as opposed to hulk's only viable option -- beating superman to death.  

What does hulk have on him?  he 'might' be stronger 'if' he gets really, REALLY angry.  Keep in mind that superman's upper strength limit hasn't been calculated either.


I admit i like DC alot, but from an objective POV, but it's hard not to see superman with the upper hand...


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## konflikti (Jan 25, 2006)

Scorpio3.14 said:
			
		

> 2. Suck the air out of the hulk's lungs and watch him pass out. Last I checked Hulk needed air to breath?


Is this kiss?
Hulk survives in space. He doesn't pass out. He still most likely loses though.


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## Bullet (Jan 25, 2006)

> unknowndanex said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Tousenz (Jan 25, 2006)

> how did deadpool beat hulk? i'd like to hear about this one... that and why some people think wolverine > hulk.


 

He used a pipe... a rusted pipe.  Well it wasn't a knock out or anything but he got the blood from the hulk he needed and escaped. Chalk up the win for Deadpool.


----------



## unknowndanex (Jan 25, 2006)

Doomsday does not match superman in speed, and him and superman were equal in power.  It was stated during the fight between Hulk and Gladiator from Gladiator saying he would've had the planet destroyed, it was in the comic.  I looked up the image, and it sent me to wikipedia so check that out.  i think it was for Gladiator.  

Hulk has taken energy blasts from Thor like a champ, so this crap about heat vision is not really goin to work, and to throw out marveldirectory estimates won't help the battle because if that was the case they should just say Hulk is in Class 150 Billion but no they just say Class 100.  Its called a bare minimum!!!  

Hulk is not gonna stand and let superman blasts him in the same spot over and over, and if Hulk is moving around which he will be considering he will be getting angrier and angrier, he will be constantly regenerating.  Doomsday was not even gettin stronger during the fight with Superman, they were equal in strength which is why the last blows killed them both, Doomsday only gets stronger after death.

*How? Post-Crisis Superman has done far more feats than Gladitor.*

Thats just because Superman is a main character and Glads isn't.  But any number of his feats doesn't include traversing Galaxies in mere seconds, and rivaling the speed of starships.  Gladiator is not the only Superman type character Hulk has beaten either considering he beat Hyperion as well. 

[KnKF-Doremi]Kasimasi ~Girl Meets Girl~ - 02 [675497A5].avi

*if its not hyperlinked, just copy and paste 

shows him taking advantage of Hyperion's super senses by doing his thunder clap, and don't say superman would just cut his senses off, cause he ain't no mind reader.  that would slow his speed down enough for Hulk to get his shots in, and superman ain't no regenerator.

also just to clear up the Hyperion and Gladiator fight, Hyperion didn't have the experience that Glads had at fighiting people.  He wasn't as skilled a fighter as Hulk or Gladiator.  Hyperion didn't really put up much of a fight except for tryin to stab Gladiator with his own hair, and Gladiator just took him out with a cross-face chickenwing and a sleeper hold.


----------



## lekki (Jan 25, 2006)

korican04 said:
			
		

> mmmm, not sure about that. Hulk gets cut up a lot by adamantium (which i'm not saying it's the same as heat vision) and doesn't become invulnerable to the same attacks. When he gets madder he gets stronger, i don't recall when his regenerative powers gained strength cause he got madder. superman's heat vision is as hot as the inside of the sun, so that would mean hulk would be invulnerable to being through the sun cause he gets mad, which maybe is true but i haven't read in any comic that he gains regenerative powers.
> Also what is superman's upperlimit?
> 
> ^to the above, hulk just gets madder and madder...so not really. lol, he does get played around with by the surfer, and hulk got mad, but there is nothing he can really do anyways against SS.



Hulk doesn't become invulnerable to anything, what happens is the madder he gets, the faster he regenerates. It's why people sometimes thinks he's invulnerable. It's not that he is, it's that he heals so fast you think he is.

And the classic sonic boom clap will slow Superman down some. Plus Doomsday never showed any near light speed moves so this shouldn't be an issue for the Hulk.

I also doubt Superman would come away unscathed taking Hulk into space.

And Hulk can survive re-entry easily when that mad. And trust me, he'll get mad after being taken into space

But seriously, even when out to kill, like whenever Superman fights Darkseid, he wouldn't be able to take out the Hulk but honestly, there'd be no real reason why Superman can't keep away from him either and it'd be a boring stalemate.


----------



## Bullet (Jan 25, 2006)

> lekki said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## unknowndanex (Jan 25, 2006)

*Post the scan.*


any more questioning of Hulk and heat vision

and thats a weaker version of the Hulk.


*Superman doesn't have to let up, he whould stand above Hulk spraying him with Heat Vision.*

*Supes just spraying this guy with Heat Vision:

Kashimashi 2

Kashimashi 2

Kashimashi 2

To Major Force:







That's what Gladiator could have easily done if he was written the he should be.*

yeah, i wonder if that worked on Doomsday.  i think not.  did u create Gladiator, cause last time i checked marvel did so who are u to say who is written correctly.

*
Hulk can't do anything about, Superman can fly where Hulk can't reach him and Hulk will be to busy being in pain to even defend himself from Heat Vision.*

yeah i guess Doomsday couldn't either and it worked so great on him.  and check the above picture for the pain and agony Hulk went through during Gladiator's heat vision.

*So, he still have shown more feats.  
Again Superman has done that also.*

um Superman is at 99 percent speed of light whereas Gladiator is faster than light speeds.  don't confuse superman with his pre-crisis counterpart.  gladiator is more based upon the pre-crisis superman.

*
Yes, but nither of them used there speed and wasn't written correctly either. Superman can speedbiltz Hulk, knock him into the air and start blitzing him from every angle with Heat Vision/Ice Breath or physical attacks.*

once again, i don't see your name on the staff to say what is written correctly.  heat vision (look above pic) and Ice breath wouldn't really help.  all u are doing is saying the only way for someone to write something good is for superman to stand as far as he can away from someone like a chump and shoot them.  normally villains choose that way of beating someone.  superman is a superhero, and there is no doubt that superman would try to get physical with the hulk.  

*Superman has dealt with enemies who use supersonic sound waves (Banshee) against him. A thunder clap is no good, which Superman can also make btw.*

not on the level of hulk, and i posted what it did to Hyperion (a superman clone basically).  and of course superman would know what Banshee is gonna do considering the name fits her well.  i'm sure if superman wouldn't think "hmmmmmm his name is Incredible Hulk, i guess he thunderclaps and makes sonic booms".

*It won't slow him down at all.*

prove it.

*
Doomsday was always on par with Superman (just recently in the Gog Wars, Doomsday has gotten even more powerful).*

on par, u just said Doomsday was superior.

*Superman whould have him there in no time. Superman also takes his opponents into the air (with breath, vision, or physical powers) and toys with them...even using them as his weapons. He'll do the same to Hulk with little effort.



*

saw what happened with Hyperion.  i don't know why u brought up physical powers considering if "written correctly" superman would stand far away and shoot him.

Hulk has faced many that were faster than him, he caught Silver Surfer while he was on the board who is way faster than Superman.  He stood toe to toe with Thor.  He beat Gladiator and Hyperion both Superman based characters.  There is no reason that speed alone is the reason Hulk would lose.  Hulk has faced too many projectile using speedsters for that to be the main reason for a loss.


----------



## korican04 (Jan 25, 2006)

Out of 10 fights, I give the first 4 to hulk. Superman would probably try to bring him to space and make him pass out then just knocked out by the hulk. The next fight, superman would try to punch him with like 10% of his strength then get knocked out. Then the next two fights try some other retarded don't try to kill your opponent. The last six superman will realize that if he actually uses his powers at 100% he could take him out.


----------



## lucky (Jan 25, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> any more questioning of Hulk and heat vision
> 
> and thats a weaker version of the Hulk.



You assume gladiator's heat vision is on the same level as superman's.  In bullet's scans, the heat vision was melting metal in a radius... what did gladiator's heat vision do?  Is it even heat vision? 

And i'm not sure if you're trying to say that heat vision (even gladiator's weaker version) is useless against the hulk... he DID acknowledge that it could kill him.  And like i said earlier in my earlier post (which you seemed to skip) supes is physically more durable than hulk... so logically, scientifically, and realistically speaking, hulk's hand would get blown off before the feedback significantly affects superman. 




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> yeah, i wonder if that worked on Doomsday.  i think not.  did u create Gladiator, cause last time i checked marvel did so who are u to say who is written correctly.
> 
> yeah i guess Doomsday couldn't either and it worked so great on him.  and check the above picture for the pain and agony Hulk went through during Gladiator's heat vision.



dude my last post i said that hulk isn't as durable as doomsday... i even gave examples!  you can't compare heat vision affect on doomsday vs. hulk... doomsday's skin doesn't break and he doesn't bleed like the hulk's!  I've NEVER seen him get cut before... the only time i saw his insides was when he was disintegrated by a cosmic being.  



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> all u are doing is saying the only way for someone to write something good is for superman to stand as far as he can away from someone like a chump and shoot them.  normally villains choose that way of beating someone.  superman is a superhero, and there is no doubt that superman would try to get physical with the hulk.



holy shit you're incredible.  I posted scans of superman beating a group with non-physical means.  *IF* superman indeed can't beat hulk blow for blow supes isn't going to be an idiot and keep going at it blow for blow... and before you bring in doomsday again, remember that unlike the hulk, doomsday's skin couldn't be penetrated so heat vision/lobotomy wouldn't work.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> not on the level of hulk, and i posted what it did to Hyperion (a superman clone basically).  and of course superman would know what Banshee is gonna do considering the name fits her well.  i'm sure if superman wouldn't think "hmmmmmm his name is Incredible Hulk, i guess he thunderclaps and makes sonic booms".
> 
> .............
> 
> ...



Yeah.  Massive bombs > hulk's claps.  Superman also flies at mach 10 or wutever so it's not like he's not used to sonic booms.  If he's survived bombs and sonic booms what makes you think hulk's claps will affect him?

I only remember his superhearing becoming a liability once... he 'turned it on' so he can look for wonderwoman.  Wonderwoman then boxed his ears with her unbreakable bracelets with her near-superman strength.  Supes was down and blood was gushing from his ears... 




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> Doomsday does not match superman in speed, and him and superman were equal in power.



physically doomsday is tougher and stronger than supes.  More than once in the Death of Superman arc it was stated that he was faster than flash... doomsday moved AT LEAST on the speed of sound. 




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> Hulk has taken energy blasts from Thor like a champ, so this crap about heat vision is not really goin to work, and to throw out marveldirectory estimates won't help the battle because if that was the case they should just say Hulk is in Class 150 Billion but no they just say Class 100.  Its called a bare minimum!!!
> 
> Hulk is not gonna stand and let superman blasts him in the same spot over and over, and if Hulk is moving around which he will be considering he will be getting angrier and angrier, he will be constantly regenerating.  Doomsday was not even gettin stronger during the fight with Superman, they were equal in strength which is why the last blows killed them both, Doomsday only gets stronger after death.



marveldirectory says that class 100 means that they can carry at least 100 tons.  It's not wrong in that.  And dude... superman's heat vision is versatile... it can work like a scalpel or like a bazooka.  I slit your wrist wiht a scalpel and it'll kill you faster than a hammer at your chest.  Don't forget that supes can use his heat vision with surgical precision... couple that wiht the fact that hulk's skin CAN be broken means that lobotomy is still a VERY viable option against hulk.

Thor's a slugger.  Superman is much more than a slugger.

And superman did say that the more he fights doomsday, the stronger and faster he seemed to get.  Probably was a limit to the inital growth though... superman did kill him after.   




			
				lekki said:
			
		

> I also doubt Superman would come away unscathed taking Hulk into space.
> 
> And Hulk can survive re-entry easily when that mad. And trust me, he'll get mad after being taken into space



i'm just curious, really.  Can hulk survive re-entry if he wasn't mad?


----------



## Bullet (Jan 25, 2006)

> > korican04 said:
> >
> >
> >
> > ...


----------



## Tousenz (Jan 25, 2006)

> Superman is faster than light and has proven to be plenty of times


 
He can only go 99% the speed of light unless he receives a boost from a person or something else.


----------



## Bullet (Jan 25, 2006)

Beyonder said:
			
		

> He can only go 99% the speed of light unless he receives a boost from a person or something else.



Superman has traveled from Earth to the sun in seconds on many occasions, he's faster than light (light takes 8 minutes to get from Earth to the sun btw).


----------



## Tousenz (Jan 25, 2006)

> Superman has traveled from Earth to the sun in seconds on many occasions, he's faster than light (light takes 8 minutes to get from Earth to the sun btw)



Superman specifically states he can only go 99% the speed of light. If he can travel faster why doesn't he get teleported into the speedforce?


Anyway its not like Im against him. I know Superman wins this.


----------



## unknowndanex (Jan 25, 2006)

*You assume gladiator's heat vision is on the same level as superman's. In bullet's scans, the heat vision was melting metal in a radius... what did gladiator's heat vision do? Is it even heat vision?

And i'm not sure if you're trying to say that heat vision (even gladiator's weaker version) is useless against the hulk... he DID acknowledge that it could kill him. And like i said earlier in my earlier post (which you seemed to skip) supes is physically more durable than hulk... so logically, scientifically, and realistically speaking, hulk's hand would get blown off before the feedback significantly affects superman. *

yeah kill him if he stood there and let that same spot be blasted.  supes is not more durable than hulk considering i haven't seen a death of hulk story arc.  supe can't regenerate, once hulk hits him he will be hurtin pretty bad depending on the state of hulk's anger.  Gladiator does have heat vision, go look up something or look at a comic with Gladiator in it.  He basically has all superman's powers.  i'm sorry if it didn't kill the hulk like u figure superman would do with it.
*
dude my last post i said that hulk isn't as durable as doomsday... i even gave examples! you can't compare heat vision affect on doomsday vs. hulk... doomsday's skin doesn't break and he doesn't bleed like the hulk's! I've NEVER seen him get cut before... the only time i saw his insides was when he was disintegrated by a cosmic being.*

dude didn't doomsday get killed, he wasn't penetrated but i guess his insides were tore the hell up.  hulk has beaten Hyperion and Gladiator, whats your excuse for the win on Hyperion.  and as hulk gets angrier his regeneration heals faster to the point u think he's invulnerable.  this is superman vs normal hulk meaning stronger than the version Gladiator fought.

*Yeah. Massive bombs > hulk's claps. Superman also flies at mach 10 or wutever so it's not like he's not used to sonic booms. If he's survived bombs and sonic booms what makes you think hulk's claps will affect him?

I only remember his superhearing becoming a liability once... he 'turned it on' so he can look for wonderwoman. Wonderwoman then boxed his ears with her unbreakable bracelets with her near-superman strength. Supes was down and blood was gushing from his ears...*

yeah Hyperion is that fast too and it affected him.  getting attacked by a thunderclap and flying at mach 10 creating sonic booms are too different things.  sonic booms are left behind.

*physically doomsday is tougher and stronger than supes. More than once in the Death of Superman arc it was stated that he was faster than flash... doomsday moved AT LEAST on the speed of sound.*

he moves at least at the speed of sound and he's faster than flash??? doesn't add up. flash moves at least on the speed of light.  and when u think about the speed force, its really inconsistent that doomsday can be faster than flash.  the flash is capable of going through time.  it can be stated, but he didn't show it, and considering the grounds u base arguments on, since flash is faster than supes by a big margin.  doomsday bein faster than flash should say he can speed blitz superman to death.  but that wasn't the case, comic characters don't normally fight like that.

*marveldirectory says that class 100 means that they can carry at least 100 tons. It's not wrong in that. And dude... superman's heat vision is versatile... it can work like a scalpel or like a bazooka. I slit your wrist wiht a scalpel and it'll kill you faster than a hammer at your chest. Don't forget that supes can use his heat vision with surgical precision... couple that wiht the fact that hulk's skin CAN be broken means that lobotomy is still a VERY viable option against hulk.

Thor's a slugger. Superman is much more than a slugger.

And superman did say that the more he fights doomsday, the stronger and faster he seemed to get. Probably was a limit to the inital growth though... superman did kill him after.
*

Thor just a slugger?????????????????????
Wow u really aren't schooled on Thor so I'll leave that statement alone.  Unless superman is up close, then hulk will block that heat vision, the vision on his arms would make him angry as well considering he gets mad quicker when fighting someone of considerable strength.  Yeah Superman stated Doomsday got stronger and faster but yet they killed each other, kind of a broken line don't u say.  but superman would have to be relatively close to do lobotomy and hulk is not gonna sit there and let it happen.  and in your post with him fighting the group, he just walked up to the guy and did it, instead of using his speed.

*i'm just curious, really. Can hulk survive re-entry if he wasn't mad?*

actually hulk did survive re-entry and he wasn't that angry.  it looked like a shooting star when he came down.


----------



## K I S K E (Jan 25, 2006)

Super Man... THough not as strong as the Hulk, still no slouch.


----------



## K I S K E (Jan 25, 2006)

Super Man... THough not as strong as the Hulk, still no slouch.  Can fly at hypersonic speeds, shoot lasers, and breath ice.  Supes wins this.


----------



## lucky (Jan 26, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> yeah kill him if he stood there and let that same spot be blasted.  supes is not more durable than hulk considering i haven't seen a death of hulk story arc.  supe can't regenerate, once hulk hits him he will be hurtin pretty bad depending on the state of hulk's anger.  Gladiator does have heat vision, go look up something or look at a comic with Gladiator in it.  He basically has all superman's powers.  i'm sorry if it didn't kill the hulk like u figure superman would do with it.



.... just cuz superman died and hulk didn't doesn't mean that he's not more durable. Batman never died... does it mean he's more durable than superman?  you bring up points that don't affect your argument.  Superman flies through the sun and the hulk gets cut by wolverine's claws and captain america's shield.    

And actually, superman can regenerate.  He heals faster (not as fast as the hulk) when exposed to the sun.  

Gladiator has similar powers but he doesn't use them like superman.  No finesse.  Too straightforward.    




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> dude didn't doomsday get killed, he wasn't penetrated but i guess his insides were tore the hell up.  hulk has beaten Hyperion and Gladiator, whats your excuse for the win on Hyperion.  and as hulk gets angrier his regeneration heals faster to the point u think he's invulnerable.  this is superman vs normal hulk meaning stronger than the version Gladiator fought.



You're putting parallels where the only similarity are their powers.  Doomsday vs. supes does NOT equal to hulk vs. gladiator/hyperion.  I'm not sure why you're arguing like that.  It's apples and oranges.  




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> yeah Hyperion is that fast too and it affected him.  getting attacked by a thunderclap and flying at mach 10 creating sonic booms are too different things.  sonic booms are left behind.



half hte people superman hangs around travels above mach.  Even if hyperion is affected by the thunderclap, it's sitll unlikely that it would affect superman... the noise and concussive effects from his clap still ain't got shit on even punches that supes has taken.  



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> he moves at least at the speed of sound and he's faster than flash??? doesn't add up. flash moves at least on the speed of light.  and when u think about the speed force, its really inconsistent that doomsday can be faster than flash.  the flash is capable of going through time.  it can be stated, but he didn't show it, and considering the grounds u base arguments on, since flash is faster than supes by a big margin.  doomsday bein faster than flash should say he can speed blitz superman to death.  but that wasn't the case, comic characters don't normally fight like that.



oh right... during Death of Superman arc, wally west (our current flash) had lost alot of his speed and at this point could only run at around the speed of sound.  Don't worry about that.




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> Thor just a slugger?????????????????????
> Wow u really aren't schooled on Thor so I'll leave that statement alone.



ok.  give me examples of when thor used innovative methods of beating people using his powers please.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> Unless superman is up close, then hulk will block that heat vision, the vision on his arms would make him angry as well considering he gets mad quicker when fighting someone of considerable strength.  Yeah Superman stated Doomsday got stronger and faster but yet they killed each other, kind of a broken line don't u say.  but superman would have to be relatively close to do lobotomy and hulk is not gonna sit there and let it happen.  and in your post with him fighting the group, he just walked up to the guy and did it, instead of using his speed.



it's possible that hulk wouldn't even know that he was being lobotomized by supes' heat vision... superman really does have that sort of fine control over his heat vision.  But yes, he'd need a moment to do it.

You make it sound liek the hulk gets exponentially angry really REALLY fast.  

And superman didn't actually lobotomize the guy... he gave him a focused concussion so fast he didn't even see it happen.  superman just walked up and showed him where on his forehead he got the concussion.


----------



## Bullet (Jan 26, 2006)

> Beyonder said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Tousenz (Jan 26, 2006)

> When has Superman ever stated that? What issue?


 

I dont remember specific Issues but once he was in a tube with some monster trapped in it and he started flying around and around but could only go 99% the speed of light and he kept trying to get out and the monster said its useless were stuck.


Then Superman just kept trying and trying and finally the monster threw him to give him the extra boost he needed to go lightspeed and they got out.


And another time flashed lent some speed to him to acheive it for some odd reason. Again I can't remember the issues it was a while back.


----------



## Bullet (Jan 26, 2006)

Beyonder said:
			
		

> I dont remember specific Issues but once he was in a tube with some monster trapped in it and he started flying around and around but could only go 99% the speed of light and he kept trying to get out and the monster said its useless were stuck.
> 
> 
> Then Superman just kept trying and trying and finally the monster threw him to give him the extra boost he needed to go lightspeed and they got out.
> ...



So basicly you don't know and making stuff up ? I could show you some scans right now that  puts him above light speed. 

Anyways I'll drop it, were going of topic.


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## Tousenz (Jan 26, 2006)

> So basicly you don't know and making stuff up ? I could show you some scans right now that puts him above light speed.


 
Um no ... he moves 99% the speed of light and he said it himself. I dont want to see your silly out of context scans.


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## Shidoshi (Jan 26, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> He can be KOed though and can be badly wounded too, slowing down his healing factor.


Vector flash fried the Hulk down to almost his skeleton, and the Hulk *still* back-fisted him into a wall and regenerated.

The basis for comparing strength is not consistent enough for DC and Marvel's universes to be directly compared.  Hulk's strength is in the Class 100 (like Thor, Juggernaut and Galactus) category, but there are "levels to infinity", as he has no known upper limit to his strength.  Superman would be in the same category as well if he were a Marvel character, but he'd be unable to physically beat Juggernaut, even if he were muscularly stronger than Cain Marko (as Juggernaut's protection provides him with invulnerablity to *any* physical force).  Just because Superman has more abilities than Hulk, doesn't mean that any of them would actually beat Hulk in a physical fight.  Flight would only have a factor if Superman either flew away from the fight, or used it to try to offensively attack the Hulk physically.

In this fight, it doesn't matter how fast Superman is, if he's unable to actually hurt the Hulk.

Those are the "ifs".

Now for the facts.  In the first issue of "All Star Superman", his strength has been brought back up to near Pre-Crisis levels, as his "latest" trip to the sun has him able to push against the force of 200 *quintillion* tons with one arm behind his back.

The most we've seen the Hulk push against is 150 billion tons, but even then, that was Bruce Banner-Hulk (or "Professor Hulk") and it wasn't stated to be the upper limit to his strength.

Assuming Superman is capable of killing the Hulk with his strength, then his speed becomes a factor.  If not, then the Hulk wins due to his stamina, after Superman exhausts his supply of stored-yellow-sun energy...



			
				Beyonder said:
			
		

> Um no ... he moves 99% the speed of light and he said it himself. I dont want to see your silly out of context scans.


The Flashes (Jay Garrick, Barry Allen, Wally West and Bart Allen) speed's upper limit has always varied.  In Young Justice, Kid Flash (as Impulse, at the time) was described in the caption as being able to move at speeds *many* times that of the speed of light...which is how he was able to create his "scouts" that go minutes into the past or future.

In other comics, the upper limit to *any* speedster's speed was the speed of light, owing to the relativistic effects of time dilation and length contraction.  Moving at the speed of light or beyond sent them into the Speed Force.

Same thing with Superman.  Pre-Crisis Superman frequently moved faster than light, which accounted for his many trips into the past, and now that he's been re-powered close to Pre-Crisis levels, he's doing faster-than-light feats now too...



> _Superman specifically states he can only go 99% the speed of light. If he can travel faster why doesn't he get teleported into the speedforce?_


Because of how the Speed Force is described.  It only powers naturally "slow" people, and, as one of Superman's naturally metahuman abilities is super-speed (since he's not powered by the Speed Force), he can't perceive it even when attaining or surpassing the limiting speed to reach it.


----------



## Tousenz (Jan 26, 2006)

> Now for the facts. In the first issue of "All Star Superman", his strength has been brought back up to near Pre-Crisis levels, as his "latest" trip to the sun has him able to push against the force of 200 *quintillion* tons with one arm behind his back.




Cmon now I enjoy my feats of strength like pushing the moon and holding up mountains... but 200 quintillion tons.... Thats just ridiculous.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Jan 26, 2006)

^I also find that hilarious.

..actually how many zero's does a quintillion have. Should a quintillion be the weight of like several planets?

Hulk in base has roughly 100 ton strength, and if he gets mad enough he could beat supes to death. However, in starting form, i'd say superman cannot just knock him out in one punch. Not, with a typical punch thrown from like 100-400 feet away. But if Superman just flies up into space, takes his distance.... uses x-ray vision and aims to hit hulk in the back of the head.. or in front- flies down a sonic speed or faster- he'd knock him out. The hulk would recover in a couple minutes though. Then just get angrier, and angrier and angrier- and...

However, if we go by .. SECRET WARS! Hulk after getting angrier just a bit, would massacre supes.


----------



## lucky (Jan 26, 2006)

the 200 quintillion tons is pwnsome... but it's in the all-star variation of DC comics... i don't think it's considered canon.  IIRC, it was because he skirted the sun then had an extra powerful charge.  During worlds at war he flew INTO the sun to get an upgrade...




			
				Beyonder said:
			
		

> And another time flashed lent some speed to him to acheive it for some odd reason. Again I can't remember the issues it was a while back.



Superman needed the extra speed to fly faster than light to pick up Adam Strange's wife and kids before the zeta beam nailed them and sent them far away.




			
				The Philospher-Rel said:
			
		

> ^I also find that hilarious.
> 
> ..actually how many zero's does a quintillion have. Should a quintillion be the weight of like several planets?



lol here's 200 quintillion:

200 000 000 000 000 000 000


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Jan 26, 2006)

^ ROUGH! 200 quintillon makes hulks 150 billion look small. 

Wait- How much does earth weight? I'm curious to know if All star sups could simply move it with one hand.:amazed


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## Shidoshi (Jan 26, 2006)

lucky said:
			
		

> Superman's heat vision's temperature is as hot as the sun's (outer layer 11,000 F) while Hulk's skin only takes up to 3,000 F before blistering. ()


I don't get why people say that.  If it really were, his use of his heat vision on Doomsday (when he used close to max power, so that it had enough energy to impart force) would have ionized the atmosphere and melted everything around him.  It's more likely that people say that because he can use his heat vision as a razor to trim his beard.  It's inconsistent to the last degree, for one thing, in most comics, his hair and nails don't grow when powered, because his invulnerability prevents his pores from opening to allow a hair follicle to pass through it.  Also, his heat vision is yellow-sun energy converted to red-spectrum energy and expelled through his eyes, and since he loses his metahuman abilities the longer he's exposed to red-sun energy, it probably weakens his hair enough to be burned away by a direct blast...or one reflected off a mirror.



> _Superman flew through the fucking sun. (Sun's core at 27,000,000 F).  If hulk tries to use his hands to cover the heat vision chances are his hands will be fried long before superman's face._


It's pretty convenient that Superman is able to go into the sun when the sun is the source of his metahuman invulnerability.  The closer he gets to the sun, the stronger all his powers become, *including* his invulnerability and his bio-electric aura (the one that extends fractions of an inch away from his skin), so that's a big reason as to why he was even able to survive in the sun.  It's also why you'll never see him try that in a star of another "color".


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## unknowndanex (Jan 26, 2006)

Shidoshi said:
			
		

> It's pretty convenient that Superman is able to go into the sun when the sun is the source of his metahuman invulnerability. The closer he gets to the sun, the stronger all his powers become, including his invulnerability and his bio-electric aura (the one that extends fractions of an inch away from his skin), so that's a big reason as to why he was even able to survive in the sun. It's also why you'll never see him try that in a star of another "color".



one thing i don't have to respond to now


*.... just cuz superman died and hulk didn't doesn't mean that he's not more durable. Batman never died... does it mean he's more durable than superman? you bring up points that don't affect your argument. Superman flies through the sun and the hulk gets cut by wolverine's claws and captain america's shield.*

um, superman becomes more invulnerable as he gets closer to the sun.  and once again u're not thinkin bout how superman fights.  i bring up the doomsday fights because thats how the hulk vs superman fight would go.  and that solar battery superman will run out of energy tryin to beat the hulk just like he did against doomsday.  

and i've seen superman bloody and shit without bein close to the red sun, and you're talking bout hulk getting cut by Adamantium.  one of if not the most strongest metal in the universe, some cosmics can't even break it.  i'm sure superman in marvel universe would be cut by it as well

and batman did get paralyzed by Bane 

*You're putting parallels where the only similarity are their powers. Doomsday vs. supes does NOT equal to hulk vs. gladiator/hyperion. I'm not sure why you're arguing like that. It's apples and oranges.*

not comparing those fights at all sorry for the confusion.  i use those fights as to say hulk has fought people like supes before.  but i didn't say hyperion > supes or equals supes.  i'm just stating the case just because superman has a list of super-powers and hulk's list isn't as big doesn't mean he's gonna win the fight which is what yall base everything on.  if half his powers doesn't even affect the hulk even though yall are tryin to force the powers to affect the hulk even when hulk has taken more powerful blasts than heat visions and freeze breaths.

*half hte people superman hangs around travels above mach. Even if hyperion is affected by the thunderclap, it's sitll unlikely that it would affect superman... the noise and concussive effects from his clap still ain't got shit on even punches that supes has taken.*

don't see what punches have to do with the thunderclap, and did u see how much damage the thunderclap other than just hyperion.  the thunderclap is using soundwaves, punches do not use that.  thunderclap is goin straight for the ear drums my friend.  but its not like i said the thunderclap will kill supes, but an all-out powerful thunderclap which i figure it would be considering he's not gonna use it til he figure out how fast supes is will really put superman down.

*
oh right... during Death of Superman arc, wally west (our current flash) had lost alot of his speed and at this point could only run at around the speed of sound. Don't worry about that.*

yet the 99% light speed superman didn't win the fight so easily, wait a minute he didn't, it was a draw.

*ok. give me examples of when thor used innovative methods of beating people using his powers please.
*

in his fight with juggernaut Thor saw that he couldn't win and figured out that juggs powers were in fact mystic so he threw his hammer to where he figured to be the source of the mystical energies of the planet and knocked out all energies.  he proceeded in kicken juggs ass until the hammer came back and the energy came back.  seein as how that plan wouldn't work he tied his hammer on juggs hands after he caught to punches and threw juggernaut off the planet and only the hammer came back.  that was the second Thor vs Juggernaut fight.

*it's possible that hulk wouldn't even know that he was being lobotomized by supes' heat vision... superman really does have that sort of fine control over his heat vision. But yes, he'd need a moment to do it.

You make it sound liek the hulk gets exponentially angry really REALLY fast.

And superman didn't actually lobotomize the guy... he gave him a focused concussion so fast he didn't even see it happen. superman just walked up and showed him where on his forehead he got the concussion.*

actually considering hulk wasn't that angry when u held 150 billion tons in Secret Wars shows just how much Hulk increases in strength and i would have to say that he increases a lot in healing factor too.


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## Bullet (Jan 26, 2006)

Beyonder said:
			
		

> Um no ... he moves 99% the speed of light and he said it himself. I dont want to see your silly out of context scans.




Where? When was this stated? How long ago? Was it recently? 

Are they out of context if he does it all the time?


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## unknowndanex (Jan 26, 2006)

well look at it like this Bullet
99% speed of light is only 1% away from the speed of light.  so him travelling those fast distances that you talk about could still be viable.  i mean he is probably under the speed of light by 100m/s or something.

oh yeah, there is no point of bringin in All-Star Superman since that seems to be like another version of him.  something like the Ultimate versions of marvel characters.  They are also doing All-Star Batman and Robin by Frank Miller.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 26, 2006)

The Philospher-Rel said:
			
		

> ^ ROUGH! 200 quintillon makes hulks 150 billion look small.
> 
> Wait- How much does earth weight? I'm curious to know if All star sups could simply move it with one hand.:amazed



Quick search says the earth weighs 

 5.972 sextillion (5,972,000,000,000,000,000,000) tons.

Well, I guess Superman can't push the earth eh?


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## Scorpio3.14 (Jan 26, 2006)

A well written non-PIS recent Superman should be beat Hulk with relative ease. In a pure fist fight with pure strength being the only factor, Hulk would probably eventually win. This however is not the case. Also, lets remember that Superman is quite a bit stronger then he was back when he died. Superman's and Doomday's rematch ended in Superman kicking Doomday's ass. Hulk would have little chance against him now Im afraid.

Oh, and about the 99% speed of light thing, I believe that has now been changed to that he can only travel at 99% the speed of light in Earth's atmoshpere. In the vacuum of space that dosnt apply. Atleast this is my understanding of things as of now.


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## Shidoshi (Jan 26, 2006)

Scorpio3.14 said:
			
		

> A well written non-PIS recent Superman should be beat Hulk with relative ease. In a pure fist fight with pure strength being the only factor, Hulk would probably eventually win. This however is not the case. Also, lets remember that Superman is quite a bit stronger then he was back when he died. Superman's and Doomday's rematch ended in Superman kicking Doomday's ass. Hulk would have little chance against him now Im afraid.


I'm not sure that's accurate.  One of the tenets of Doomsday is that he can't be killed twice in the same way.  Superman had beaten him physically, while giving in to death at the same time, but the second time he faced him, Superman made a more sentient Doomsday aware of his own mortality and beat him down enough to take him to the end of time and let the forces of entropy take care of him.  The rest was simple at that point.  Between those two times (unless I'm mistaken), Doomsday was flash-fried by Imperiex.  The thing is, the Hulk *has* been flash-fried by Vector to near-skeletal remains, and was still able to back-fist Vector outcold and regenerate from that.



> _Oh, and about the 99% speed of light thing, I believe that has now been changed to that he can only travel at 99% the speed of light in Earth's atmoshpere. In the vacuum of space that dosnt apply. Atleast this is my understanding of things as of now._


Nah...whenever the speed of light is the limit, he (and other speedsters) is (are) limited to Mach 10 in Earth's atmosphere...


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Jan 26, 2006)

crazymoronx said:
			
		

> Quick search says the earth weighs
> 
> 5.972 sextillion (5,972,000,000,000,000,000,000) tons.
> 
> Well, I guess Superman can't push the earth eh?



oh! but then if sups use both his hands to push.. he should have more force- and if he flies at earth from a distance goign at light speed or ner it-whatever- he could probably make up the diffrence. 

and that is some funnt shit.


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## Scorpio3.14 (Jan 26, 2006)

Shidoshi said:
			
		

> I'm not sure that's accurate.  One of the tenets of Doomsday is that he can't be killed twice in the same way.  Superman had beaten him physically, while giving in to death at the same time, but the second time he faced him, Superman made a more sentient Doomsday aware of his own mortality and beat him down enough to take him to the end of time and let the forces of entropy take care of him.  The rest was simple at that point.  Between those two times (unless I'm mistaken), Doomsday was flash-fried by Imperiex.  The thing is, the Hulk *has* been flash-fried by Vector to near-skeletal remains, and was still able to back-fist Vector outcold and regenerate from that.



I was referring to the time in Superman v2 Issue #175. Doomsday after having recovered from being vaporized by Imperiex goes after Lex Luther and Superman tries to stop him. Needless to say he does stop Doomsday and pretty easily too. Also I never said Superman killed Doomsday, just beat him. And yes, it was through brute force. Superman has gotten stronger throught he years.



			
				Shidoshi said:
			
		

> Nah...whenever the speed of light is the limit, he (and other speedsters) is (are) limited to Mach 10 in Earth's atmosphere...



Thats kinda old information. Speedsters like Flash have long since gotten rid of the speed cap of the speed of light. Flash goes in excess of the speed of light all the time, he can do it within Earth's atmosphere as well. Superman can also go near light speed in the atmosphere, he is not limited to Mach 10 but generally limits himself to low Mach's to prevent damage to his surroundings. In space Superman has exceeded the speed of light.


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## Bullet (Jan 26, 2006)

> um, superman becomes more invulnerable as he gets closer to the sun. and once again u're not thinkin bout how superman fights. i bring up the doomsday fights because thats how the hulk vs superman fight would go. and that solar battery superman will run out of energy tryin to beat the hulk just like he did against doomsday.



First, again Doomsday is way faster than Hulk, and is more invunverable than he is. Superman also doesn't run out energy that fast, he's able to fight for weeks now. Your still talking about things that happen 11 years ago.



> and i've seen superman bloody and shit without bein close to the red sun, and you're talking bout hulk getting cut by Adamantium.



What's your point?



> one of if not the most strongest metal in the universe, some cosmics can't even break it. i'm sure superman in marvel universe would be cut by it as well






> i use those fights as to say hulk has fought people like supes before. but i didn't say hyperion > supes or equals supes.



But there not Superman. Superman uses his powers more effectively. 



> i'm just stating the case just because superman has a list of super-powers and hulk's list isn't as big doesn't mean he's gonna win the fight which is what yall base everything on.



It does mean he's going to win, he has several advantages over the Hulk. Thor and Thing was able to beat Hulk with just physical attacks, Superman the strength, speed, long range attacks, and Flight, Hulk has no chance.




> if half his powers doesn't even affect the hulk even though yall are tryin to force the powers to affect the hulk even when hulk has taken more powerful blasts than heat visions and freeze breaths.



Hulk has never taken tempatures hotter than stars. He could barely walk after Gladiator blasted him with his Heat Vision. Hulk isn't immune to being frozen either.



Superman whould do that and much worse. He won't stand right in front of Hulk like Glads was doing and he'll cover Hulks entire body with it.

After fighting counteless Doomsdays, he wipes out Darkseid's army of Doomsday clones with a full blast of heat vision 







> don't see what punches have to do with the thunderclap, and did u see how much damage the thunderclap other than just hyperion. the thunderclap is using soundwaves, punches do not use that. thunderclap is goin straight for the ear drums my friend. but its not like i said the thunderclap will kill supes, but an all-out powerful thunderclap which i figure it would be considering he's not gonna use it til he figure out how fast supes is will really put superman down.



Again, a thunder clap is useless. 

Superman taking s hypersonic attack (from Silver Banshee) in the face that is the equivalent of ten atomic bombs in his skull.





He effortlessly takes her to space to KO her without really harming her. 



Batman needs a bit of help while Supes is in space.



Supes then lets the heat vision rain down on his enemies with razor sharp precision.





> yet the 99% light speed superman didn't win the fight so easily, wait a minute he didn't, it was a draw.



Superman, Flash, or Doomsday wasn't light speed ten years ago. Since then Superman has become more powerful, he doesn't stay the same.



> actually considering hulk wasn't that angry when u held 150 billion tons in Secret Wars shows just how much Hulk increases in strength and i would have to say that he increases a lot in healing factor too.



Superman can lift stuff like that normally without strain and Hulk won't be given the chance to get that angry. Even if he did get angry, he still won't be able to touch Superman since he's far slower and can't fly.


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## unknowndanex (Jan 26, 2006)

its obvious that u continue to refer to hulk and gladiator as if that was hulk's normal form.  that was in fact a weaker version of the hulk.  lucky has already said that Doomsday was a bit faster than speed of sound and considering superman was way faster than that, he still lost the fight. 

superman can get all the power-ups in the world, but a fight against normal hulk will spell disaster.  hulk doesn't need power-ups every now and then considering he gets a power-up everytime he gets angry.  

for another thing, marvel's adamantium and DC's adamantium are two totally different things.  marvel's adamantium is held in higher regard than DC's but u seem to be only on DC so much that u wouldn't know that.  considering u didn't know what version of hulk that was u probably looked for an image of that comic. 

Thor beat hulk using way more than just physical fighting, and the only time Thing beat Hulk was when Hulk wasn't at his best.  Hulk has crushed Thing as if he were nothing too many time, someone had to stop him from killing him after he beat him and laughed at Thing's punch.

and for your last comment i won't continue to refer to gladiator and hyperion battles considering u think i'm saying they're superman level.  i'm just saying that hulk has faced people who can fly and are faster than him and won.  so just flying fast will not work on the hulk.


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## Bullet (Jan 27, 2006)

> unknowndanex said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Shidoshi (Jan 27, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> He can get anry all he want, he still won't be fast enough to fight with Supes, he still won't be able to fly, and he can't do anything about the long range attacks either.


If Superman can't hurt the Hulk, then all those other powers won't mean a thing.



> _That's marvels admatium he took (that was Reed who made that beam strong enough to cut through adamantium)._


Crossover comics are hardly canon.  For eight minutes after the resins are mixed, the Adamantium can be molded into a particular shape as long as it is kept at a temperature of 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit. After this brief period the process of creating Adamantium is completed. The extremely stable molecular structure of the Adamantium prevents it from being molded further, even if the temperature remains high enough to keep it in liquefied form. Only a device celled a Molecular Rearranger can alter the form of hardened Adamantium.  If you're going to count Reed's beam as canon, then the "adamantium" they're referring to must be "Secondary" Adamantium, which *can* be altered or destroyed by sufficient force.  Actual or "True" Adamantium, can take a blow from Mjolnir (Thor's Uru mallet) at full force *from* Thor without distending to any significant degree...



> _It whouldn't matter which Hulk you use, he isn't winning._


Actually, it should.  Gray Hulk was weaker than Green Hulk, and "Professor" Hulk was weaker than "Savage" Hulk.



> _Hulk does have the better win record against Thing, but Thing was always able to hold his own against Hulk._


Not true.  Ben Grimm's been beaten to unconsciousness more than once in the early years of their encounters.


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## Bullet (Jan 27, 2006)

> To Shidoshi:
> 
> If Superman can't hurt the Hulk, then all those other powers won't mean a thing.



But Superman can hurt Hulk, so they whould mean a thing.



> Actually, it should. Gray Hulk was weaker than Green Hulk, and "Professor" Hulk was weaker than "Savage" Hulk.



I mean it whouldn't matter because Superman could beat any incarnation.



> Not true. Ben Grimm's been beaten to unconsciousness more than once in the early years of their encounters.



I know that, but Ben was also able to fight with Hulk for a while in every encounter.


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## unknowndanex (Jan 27, 2006)

*The DOS arc was also a weaker version of Superman. *

actually i'm referring to a version of hulk that wasn't normal, so u should take that plus the fact that normal hulk is stronger now due to the increase in gamma radiation he took in.

*Are you even listening? Superman wasn't faster than light back then, not even close. Him, Doomsday, and Flash just over sound speed.*

well in actuality in the post-crisis superman was put at near light-speed from the jump and was slower than flash.  if sound speed was put in there then that is just inconsistency, because in Man of Steel (his post-crisis origin) he was faster than sound.  the only time superman was slower than 99 percent light was before 1950.

*He can get anry all he want, he still won't be fast enough to fight with Supes, he still won't be able to fly, and he can't do anything about the long range attacks either.*

once again all u do is list superman's powers and say hey he'll win when hulk has fought people with those powers.   the guy even caught silver surfer while he was on the board.  i know superman uses his powers well but u can't just keep saying because he can do this and that means he'll win.  he normally loses to people who are just ass-kickin machines.  doomsday and mongul kicked his ass.

*
That's marvels admatium he took (that was Reed who made that beam strong enough to cut through adamantium).*

you're the same guy that would say crossovers aren't canon but yet when the tables are turned now u wanna use crossovers.  even the first post was that we all know that the crossover was basically 90 percent BS.  

*It whouldn't matter which Hulk you use, he isn't winning.*

i know considering mindless hulk beat the hell outta onslaught but hey whatever.  


*Thor has beaten Hulk with physical attacks alone.*

actually when it came to hand to hand combat Thor lost.  check the 2001 Hulk Annual and then get back with me on that one cause Hulk left him for dead.  now when did thor beat hulk straight physically?

*Hulk does have the better win record against Thing, but Thing was always able to hold his own against Hulk. *

yeah a guy laughing at your hits and beating u til u were close to death is holding your own.  
*
Well Superman doesn't just fly fast, he can fight very fast too.*

so can Thor, Hyperion, Gladiator, etc etc.  it should have gotten to the point now where u can admit that Hulk is not the slowest guy on the face of the earth.  please stop sleeping on his speed.

you're listing powers of superman that wouldn't really do anything but piss off hulk.  superman would soon have to get physical or fly of the planet and start attacking to win, but considering superman wouldn't go out like a punk as much as u hope he would he would soon fight the hulk.  and once that happened he would get his ass handed to him.


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## Shidoshi (Jan 27, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> But Superman can hurt Hulk, so they whould mean a thing.


Well, this is actually what we're here to prove, aren't we?



> _I mean it whouldn't matter because Superman could beat any incarnation._


...in your opinion.





> _I know that, but Ben was also able to fight with Hulk for a while in every encounter._


"a while" is subjective...


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## Bullet (Jan 27, 2006)

> Shidoshi said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bullet (Jan 27, 2006)

> actually i'm referring to a version of hulk that wasn't normal, so u should take that plus the fact that normal hulk is stronger now due to the increase in gamma radiation he took in.



That's what I been going by, the Hulk today still isn't going to beat the Superman today.




> well in actuality in the post-crisis superman was put at near light-speed from the jump and was slower than flash.




No. Superman ten years ago, was post-crisis Superman, he just wasn't that powerful back then, he's been getting upgrades ever since his return from death. Superman back in the DOS arc wasn't close to being light speed, Flash either.



> if sound speed was put in there then that is just inconsistency,



It's not inconsistent since he was never light speed back ten years ago.



> because in Man of Steel (his post-crisis origin) he was faster than sound.



He was faster than sound, just not light speed until later on after his death.



> the only time superman was slower than 99 percent light was before 1950.



He wasn't light speed in the early 90's either.



> once again all u do is list superman's powers and say hey he'll win when hulk has fought people with those powers.



Hulk hasn't fought Superman though. 



> the guy even caught silver surfer while he was on the board.



That's Surfer. Surfer isn't a fighter and he wasn't trying to fight with Hulk.



> i know superman uses his powers well but u can't just keep saying because he can do this and that means he'll win.



If Superman uses his powers effectively, there's not alot Hulk will be able to do to him. 



> he normally loses to people who are just ass-kickin machines. doomsday and mongul kicked his ass.



Doomsday is faster and stronger than Hulk, he's more invunerble too. Mongul hasn't won a fight against Superman since the early 90's. Mongul just recently lost too. 



> you're the same guy that would say crossovers aren't canon but yet when the tables are turned now u wanna use crossovers. even the first post was that we all know that the crossover was basically 90 percent BS.



Weren't you the one that said Superman can be cut by Adamantium? 



> i know considering mindless hulk beat the hell outta onslaught but hey whatever.



Mindless Hulk didn't beat Onslaught and need help to reach that strength from Grey. He was knocked out by Onslaught too.



> actually when it came to hand to hand combat Thor lost. check the 2001 Hulk Annual and then get back with me on that one cause Hulk left him for dead. now when did thor beat hulk straight physically?



I never said Thor won every single battle, but he has beaten Hulk too.



> yeah a guy laughing at your hits and beating u til u were close to death is holding your own.



That guy also beat Hulk!




> so can Thor, Hyperion, Gladiator, etc etc.



Prove it! Thor has trouble tagging Spiderman and Mongoose. Glads and Hyperion has never shown to be able to fight fast either.



> it should have gotten to the point now where u can admit that Hulk is not the slowest guy on the face of the earth. please stop sleeping on his speed.



Please bring evidence and a better arguement with you next time.



> you're listing powers of superman that wouldn't really do anything but piss off hulk.



You mean like powers that whould melt Hulk's skin in a second or strength that can destroy planets. 



> superman would soon have to get physical or fly of the planet and start attacking to win, but considering superman wouldn't go out like a punk as much as u hope he would he would soon fight the hulk.



Superman could either speedbiltz Hulk into a coma, melt him with Heat Heat Vision, or take him into space. Hulk has no chance at winning. 



> and once that happened he would get his ass handed to him.



No he won't!


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## Shidoshi (Jan 27, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Well you need to start proving. Superman is strong enough to hurt Hulk with physical force and his other powers, he wins this fight pretty easily.


I'm not arguing for one side or the other.  This versus match is one of the most hotly disputed matchups...probably in all of comicdom.  I honestly don't know who can do what to whom.  Both characters have strength that knows no upper limit, and both characters don't have magical protection against injuries due to physical forces.  Hence why I said *if* so-and-so can do this-and-that, because if you're gonna match AS Superman (current) to current Savage Hulk, then it's questionable.  If you're going to match early Post-Crisis Supes against Savage Hulk, then Hulk takes it if he's enraged.  It really does depend on which versions one refers to, in my opinion...


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## Bullet (Jan 27, 2006)

Shidoshi said:
			
		

> I'm not arguing for one side or the other.  This versus match is one of the most hotly disputed matchups...probably in all of comicdom.  I honestly don't know who can do what to whom.  Both characters have strength that knows no upper limit, and both characters don't have magical protection against injuries due to physical forces.  Hence why I said *if* so-and-so can do this-and-that, because if you're gonna match AS Superman (current) to current Savage Hulk, then it's questionable.  If you're going to match early Post-Crisis Supes against Savage Hulk, then Hulk takes it if he's enraged.  It really does depend on which versions one refers to, in my opinion...



This is post-crisis Superman (current) vs. Hulk today. The thread starter posted it. There's no two post-crisis Superman btw.


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## Shidoshi (Jan 27, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> This is post-crisis Superman (current) vs. Hulk today. The thread starter posted it. There's no two post-crisis Superman btw.


I'm aware of that.  I'm the one who explained where AS Superman falls under.

But there's a *big* strength difference between the mid 80's John Byrne Post-Crisis Supes and...hell...OWAW Supes, even though both are Post-Crisis.


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## Bullet (Jan 27, 2006)

Shidoshi said:
			
		

> I'm aware of that.  I'm the one who explained where AS Superman falls under.
> 
> But there's a *big* strength difference between the mid 80's John Byrne Post-Crisis Supes and...hell...OWAW Supes, even though both are Post-Crisis.



It's still Post-Crisis Superman though, the difference is that Superman is just more powerful. It's not like the thread starter posted during what time Superman he's using. If he was using DOS Superman, he whould have posted that.


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## unknowndanex (Jan 27, 2006)

I don't really have to bring proof of Hyperion and Gladiator fighting at high speeds and with ridiculous power.  anyone who actually reads marvel knows they do.  go look for the issue of Gladiator vs Hyperion, i'm not home so i can't dig it up right now, but i'm sure u can find it unless u choose not to for sake of your argument.  u can also check out the Gladiator vs Uni-Power Invincible Woman battle as well to see the magnitude of that fight.  

i never said superman would get cut by adamantium, i was saying adamantium is one of if not the strongest metal in the universe because someone referred to wolverine cutting the hulk.  but i do see superman battered and bruised way more times than i see the hulk.

jean grey only separated bruce banner from the hulk, mindless hulk got to that rage on his own.  i'm sure hulk can destroy planets too, he just can't fly to go do it, but its been said on several ocassions that hulk has planet destroying power.  and superman can't melt areas of the hulk all he wants, but hulk is not gonna stand and let him melt that same spot, and by the time hulk gets mad enough, he'll just jump right at superman while he's shooting that heat vision and smack him.  superman has gotten over confident with the heat vision so don't hurry and say he'll move cause there's a chance he'll try to see if he can keep him down with it.  u go by powers and not by fighting.

i referred to Silver Surfer because SS is faster than superman and hulk caught him, yet u swear that superman would win becasue of his speed.  and SS>>>>>Superman, Hulk should be able to take Superman.  You referred to SS not bein at full potential when Hulk pulled him off the board so why do i need to bring evidence of his speed if u "seen" the comic.

there is a such thing as just knowing things but u obviously don't understand cause u are blinded by the fact that superman can't beat everyone (hulk included).  but i honestly don't have to go searching for comics and looking on the internet for images of things i know that happened and people on this thread know happened just to be doing it.

if i use your ideology show me proof of superman beating the hulk, and if u bring a DC/Marvel crossover into it i'll show proof of Venom beating Superman.


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## Bullet (Jan 27, 2006)

> I don't really have to bring proof of Hyperion and Gladiator fighting at high speeds and with ridiculous power.



Yes you do need to prove since you claim that they do. I've never seen them fight at high speeds in any comic.



> anyone who actually reads marvel knows they do.



I do and I have never seen them do it.



> go look for the issue of Gladiator vs Hyperion,



I have it, that don't fight at high speeds there either.



> i'm not home so i can't dig it up right now,



Well when you get home, make sure to post some scans of them fighting at high speeds.



> but i'm sure u can find it unless u choose not to for sake of your argument.



I've never seen them do it, you're the one that said that they can fight at high speeds, so you have to prove it.



> u can also check out the Gladiator vs Uni-Power Invincible Woman battle as well to see the magnitude of that fight.



Again bring proof that he's able to fight at high speeds.




> but i do see superman battered and bruised way more times than i see the hulk.



Superman doesn't get beaten that bad very often, but when he does, the being he's fighting is strong enough to harm so there's nothing wrong with that.



> jean grey only separated bruce banner from the hulk, mindless hulk got to that rage on his own.



He still needed help from Grey inoder to get there though.



> i'm sure hulk can destroy planets too, he just can't fly to go do it, but its been said on several ocassions that hulk has planet destroying power.



When very angry he can, but that'll take a while for him to do that.




> and superman can't melt areas of the hulk all he wants, but hulk is not gonna stand and let him melt that same spot,



Superman is going to engulf Hulks entire body into it while flying above him, Hulk won't be able to do anything about. 



> and by the time hulk gets mad enough, he'll just jump right at superman while he's shooting that heat vision and smack him.



If Superman see him jumping he'll just move and continue what he was doing. If Hulk does hit, Superman will just start up again.



> superman has gotten over confident with the heat vision so don't hurry and say he'll move cause there's a chance he'll try to see if he can keep him down with it. u go by powers and not by fighting.



Superman has never gotten confident over his Heat Vision, he's always been careful though, to keep from killing his opponents. Superman uses his powers effective alot.




> i referred to Silver Surfer because SS is faster than superman and hulk caught him, yet u swear that superman would win becasue of his speed.



Surfer is faster in flight speed, not fighting/reflexive speeds. Superman uses his speed more effective in battle, he could create a vortex, taking away oxygen from Hulk. 



> and SS>>>>>Superman,



Surfer isn't that fast, he fly very fast, that's it. 



> Hulk should be able to take Superman.



Hulk won't be able to catch him.



> You referred to SS not bein at full potential when Hulk pulled him off the board so why do i need to bring evidence of his speed if u "seen" the comic.



Surfer wasn't trying to hurt Hulk is what I'm saying.



> there is a such thing as just knowing things but u obviously don't understand cause u are blinded by the fact that superman can't beat everyone (hulk included).



Superman can beat Hulk, so far you havn't prove why he couldn't.



> but i honestly don't have to go searching for comics and looking on the internet for images of things i know that happened and people on this thread know happened just to be doing it.



Still no good arguement. I don't have to go on the internet either, I have my own. 



> if i use your ideology show me proof of superman beating the hulk, and if u bring a DC/Marvel crossover into it i'll show proof of Venom beating Superman.



Now you're going completely off topic. Again prove that Gladiator, Thor, and Hyperion fight at high speeds, since you were the one that claim they do.


----------



## unknowndanex (Jan 28, 2006)

well u haven't really proven that superman can beat hulk, so there's not point of saying i haven't.  of course u will point to your comments but it would really make no difference because its just comments.

if u don't know gladiator and hyperion were fighting.  how can u say what surfer is fast in, the guy is pretty quick in reflexes, he was dodging Namor like nothing underwater. come on now.

and if u have the hyperion vs gladiator comic, you would know they were throwin planet destroying punches at nanoseconds because it was stated, if u deny that then either u don't have the comic or you're lying that they weren't fighting that fast.  either way you're lying when it comes to that subject.  i don't make stuff up, just type this into google if u don't believe me since i can't get the image.

gladiator, hyperion, nanoseconds

many people have talked about it, so there u go, maybe u should buy a marvel comic book and stop acting like u have em.
*
Superman can beat Hulk, so far you havn't prove why he couldn't.*

Hulk can beat superman, so far you haven't prove why he couldn't.  Show me a superman like character beating the Hulk.  Give me proof that superman would win, i showed hulk defeating a superman like character so show me hulk losing.  show me that Hulk wouldn't be able to catch superman.  even give me google words like i gave you.


----------



## unknowndanex (Jan 28, 2006)

sorry for the double post but i got some scanned to me.

Sig
Sig
Sig
Sig

as u can see they are fighting with planet destroying force and fighting between nanoseconds.  there's your proof.

do i have to prove thor now, it seems like i can prove anything i say and u can prove nothing but show insignificant fights that have nothing to do with hulk.  yet i can show fights that have something to do with superman.


----------



## Scorpio3.14 (Jan 28, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> do i have to prove thor now, it seems like i can prove anything i say and u can prove nothing but show insignificant fights that have nothing to do with hulk.  yet i can show fights that have something to do with superman.



How about this for Hulk relevant proof?

Sig
Sig
Sig
Sig
Sig
Sig

Hulk realistically wont even be able to touch Superman.


----------



## unknowndanex (Jan 28, 2006)

um superman took advantage of doomsday's fear of Imperiex, ooooooooooooooooooooooooo hooray for superman.  doomsday was not at his best right then.

realistically that won't work on the hulk.

i'm not sayin speed will not be a factor in the fight, but it will not be the determinant of who wins.  but show me a picture of superman fighting someone who hasn't been done up by someone else.

come on now think about it, doomsday dismantled darkseid who has handed superman his ass on too many ocassions, yet superman would beat doomsday at his best like that?

theres your relevant proof.


----------



## Scorpio3.14 (Jan 28, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> um superman took advantage of doomsday's fear of Imperiex, ooooooooooooooooooooooooo hooray for superman.  doomsday was not at his best right then.



and you think Gladiator was at his best when he battled the Hulk? Unless Gladiator is the king of CIS and PIS then I doubt it lol  so many things were wrong with that fight its not even funny. Plus you have to consider that the Hulk incarnation that faught Gladiator was more powerful then normal Hulk. Thats like me pulling up a feat of a sundipped Superman to support Superman's victory. Its highly implied in that fight that Gladiator would have beaten a regular Hulk fairly easily.

Sure, Doomsday wasnt at his best, but he was still damn powerful considering he just handed Martian Manhunter his ass. Still compareable to the Hulk and superman destroyed him.

Also the whole point of having Lex's speech captioned as Superman faught Doomsday was to show how Superman had grown and he isnt what he used to be, in a good way.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> realistically that won't work on the hulk.



How will it not work on the Hulk? I have mentioned this several times and no one has even tried to counter it yet. Doomsday wasnt even able to touch Superman when Superman didnt want to be touched. He could just vibrate to intangibility and evade all attacks, what is Hulk gunna do? Honestly, what is he going to do? For Superman it will be open house on Hulk's ass while Hulk wont be able to lay a finger on Superman.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> come on now think about it, doomsday dismantled darkseid who has handed superman his ass on too many ocassions, yet superman would beat doomsday at his best like that?



Darkseid is a jobber now. Superman beats Darkseid on almost a weekly basis, its actually pretty sad really  Not to long ago Superman, single handedly, fought off a Apokolips invasion force INCLUDEING Darkseid himself while taking almost no damage. Not to mention Superman beating Darkseid to the point where the mighty tyrant was begging for his life. The Doomsday-Darkseid thing says absolutely nothing about Superman.

And yes, its undeniable, Current Superman (post OWAW Superman) >>>> DOS Superman.


----------



## lucky (Jan 28, 2006)

Shidoshi said:
			
		

> I don't get why people say that.  If it really were, his use of his heat vision on Doomsday (when he used close to max power, so that it had enough energy to impart force) would have ionized the atmosphere and melted everything around him.  It's more likely that people say that because he can use his heat vision as a razor to trim his beard.  It's inconsistent to the last degree, for one thing, in most comics, his hair and nails don't grow when powered, because his invulnerability prevents his pores from opening to allow a hair follicle to pass through it.  Also, his heat vision is yellow-sun energy converted to red-spectrum energy and expelled through his eyes, and since he loses his metahuman abilities the longer he's exposed to red-sun energy, it probably weakens his hair enough to be burned away by a direct blast...or one reflected off a mirror.



probably didn't want to destroy his friends around him.  



			
				Shidoshi said:
			
		

> It's pretty convenient that Superman is able to go into the sun when the sun is the source of his metahuman invulnerability.



you're right.  i didn't put that into consideration.




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> and i've seen superman bloody and shit without bein close to the red sun, and you're talking bout hulk getting cut by Adamantium.  one of if not the most strongest metal in the universe, some cosmics can't even break it.  i'm sure superman in marvel universe would be cut by it as well



superman's all bloody n shit after after expending most of his energy -- he wasn't in his prime.  At that point even bullets can go through him.  As for wolverine and adamantium, i'm not saying that adamantium can't cut superman, but there would have to be alot of force exerted to be able to cut through something so dense.  Wolverine's strength was sufficient enough to cut the hulk.

But then again the way i see it the hulk isn't as 'tough' as superman but he regenerates damn fast.  superman is 'tougher' but but can't regenerate like hulk can.  Trade off durability.  

Which is why i sitll think lobotomy with heat vision is a viable optino against the hulk... sure the hulk might be able to take heat vision, heal and keep coming butwhat if superman fries the part of his brain that gets him angry first?  




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> not comparing those fights at all sorry for the confusion.  i use those fights as to say hulk has fought people like supes before.  but i didn't say hyperion > supes or equals supes.  i'm just stating the case just because superman has a list of super-powers and hulk's list isn't as big doesn't mean he's gonna win the fight which is what yall base everything on.  if half his powers doesn't even affect the hulk even though yall are tryin to force the powers to affect the hulk even when hulk has taken more powerful blasts than heat visions and freeze breaths.



It's not so much that the hulk's taken more powerful blasts as the method the blasts are used... like i know that this is the ultimate universe so it's not canon, but the principle applies.  The hulk's taken physical force, right?  Wasp used physical force to fuck around wiht his brain to turn him back into banner...

just as i'm saying that superman isn't going to try to incinerate the hulk by spraying heat vision... it's possible that the hulk will keep healing and try to pull one like on gladiator.  It's very possible that he'll pull a wasp and shoot concentrated focused heat vision right at his mendulla oblongata or watever it is.  Attack the source, if you will.  That's what the wasp did.





			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> don't see what punches have to do with the thunderclap, and did u see how much damage the thunderclap other than just hyperion.  the thunderclap is using soundwaves, punches do not use that.  thunderclap is goin straight for the ear drums my friend.  but its not like i said the thunderclap will kill supes, but an all-out powerful thunderclap which i figure it would be considering he's not gonna use it til he figure out how fast supes is will really put superman down.



The physics of the sound is the same.  Thunderclap is the sound he made by the palms of his hands contacting each other... 'boom's' are sounds made by big fists contacting someone's body.  The sound generated by both are still sound waves.  As for the damage, it's not very different from superman throwing a punch and with a big "kaboom!" destroying his entire house and gouging a crater. 




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> in his fight with juggernaut Thor saw that he couldn't win and figured out that juggs powers were in fact mystic so he threw his hammer to where he figured to be the source of the mystical energies of the planet and knocked out all energies.  he proceeded in kicken juggs ass until the hammer came back and the energy came back.  seein as how that plan wouldn't work he tied his hammer on juggs hands after he caught to punches and threw juggernaut off the planet and only the hammer came back.  that was the second Thor vs Juggernaut fight.



ok then!



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> superman can get all the power-ups in the world, but a fight against normal hulk will spell disaster.  hulk doesn't need power-ups every now and then considering he gets a power-up everytime he gets angry.



lol dude i know that you think hulk would win against superman but isn't saying that 'no matter waht powerups he gets supes will lose' kind of extreme?  

War hulk beat juggy, didn't he?  Doesn't juggy usually kick hulk's ass?



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> i know superman uses his powers well but u can't just keep saying because he can do this and that means he'll win.  he normally loses to people who are just ass-kickin machines.  doomsday and mongul kicked his ass.



Doomsday and superman kicked each other's asses.  I didn't keep track of all of mongul vs. superman, but the time i remember mongul kicking his ass was after superman was VERY very weakened from lack of yellow sun.  Hardly counts.  They can't anymore.


----------



## unknowndanex (Jan 28, 2006)

> and you think Gladiator was at his best when he battled the Hulk? Unless Gladiator is the king of CIS and PIS then I doubt it lol so many things were wrong with that fight its not even funny. Plus you have to consider that the Hulk incarnation that faught Gladiator was more powerful then normal Hulk. Thats like me pulling up a feat of a sundipped Superman to support Superman's victory. Its highly implied in that fight that Gladiator would have beaten a regular Hulk fairly easily.
> 
> Sure, Doomsday wasnt at his best, but he was still damn powerful considering he just handed Martian Manhunter his ass. Still compareable to the Hulk and superman destroyed him.
> 
> Also the whole point of having Lex's speech captioned as Superman faught Doomsday was to show how Superman had grown and he isnt what he used to be, in a good way.



um what are u talking about, that was a weaker version of the Hulk that did that.  u should also notice that for some reason when Superman is getting a big battle DC makes the rest of the JLA look like shit.  and all the caption was talking bout was peace and the challenge ahead, but if u pay attention to superman they reason doomsday was beaten that easily was cause of his confidence and he experienced fear.  doomsday didn't fight like he did the other time, remember doomsday also gets stronger after every battle but no one had beat him like imperiex did.



> How will it not work on the Hulk? I have mentioned this several times and no one has even tried to counter it yet. Doomsday wasnt even able to touch Superman when Superman didnt want to be touched. He could just vibrate to intangibility and evade all attacks, what is Hulk gunna do? Honestly, what is he going to do? For Superman it will be open house on Hulk's ass while Hulk wont be able to lay a finger on Superman.



cause i have shown hulk face people that were that fast, gladiator fights in nanoseconds.  he has fought hyperion and handed him his ass (hulk that is).  his reflexes are ranked pretty high, thats why he was able to catch SS on his board.  and beat all the other fast people that were supposed to use their superior speed to beat him.



> Darkseid is a jobber now. Superman beats Darkseid on almost a weekly basis, its actually pretty sad really Not to long ago Superman, single handedly, fought off a Apokolips invasion force INCLUDEING Darkseid himself while taking almost no damage. Not to mention Superman beating Darkseid to the point where the mighty tyrant was begging for his life. The Doomsday-Darkseid thing says absolutely nothing about Superman.
> 
> And yes, its undeniable, Current Superman (post OWAW Superman) >>>> DOS Superman.



have to give u that one, they did throw darkseid to the side now.  but gladiator and hyperion >>>> DOS Superman so whats the point.  hyperion actually did try to use his speed on the hulk and it didn't work.  marvel heroes are very adept at adapting to speed.  gladiator was running circles around Thor but he adapted to the fight.  Hulk beat Namor, IronMan, WonderMan, and Hercules at the same time in Incredible Hulk 316.  Namor is pretty damn fast and so is WonderMan, IronMan is fast depending on the suit.  don't worry i'm not saying they're as fast as superman cause WonderMan was probably the fastes and he was at 25,000mph.  but hulk is no way near that speed and won the fight.



> It's not so much that the hulk's taken more powerful blasts as the method the blasts are used... like i know that this is the ultimate universe so it's not canon, but the principle applies. The hulk's taken physical force, right? Wasp used physical force to fuck around wiht his brain to turn him back into banner...
> 
> just as i'm saying that superman isn't going to try to incinerate the hulk by spraying heat vision... it's possible that the hulk will keep healing and try to pull one like on gladiator. It's very possible that he'll pull a wasp and shoot concentrated focused heat vision right at his mendulla oblongata or watever it is. Attack the source, if you will. That's what the wasp did.



well how will superman know that the hulk is bruce banner anyway.  wasp knew the source and superman doesn't.  and ultimate is canon just not 616 canon.  just gotta specify the version of hulk now. 



> lol dude i know that you think hulk would win against superman but isn't saying that 'no matter waht powerups he gets supes will lose' kind of extreme?
> 
> War hulk beat juggy, didn't he? Doesn't juggy usually kick hulk's ass?



that was kinda over zealous i sometimes say stupid things on that order.  didn't really mean that statment, its just that bullet can really push me especially with the lying about hyperion vs gladiator.



> Doomsday and superman kicked each other's asses. I didn't keep track of all of mongul vs. superman, but the time i remember mongul kicking his ass was after superman was VERY very weakened from lack of yellow sun. Hardly counts. They can't anymore.



yeah i hear u, i was just pointing out that these guys weren't on superman's level of speed and got the job done.  i've shown hulk face superman like characters, hulk has aways been shown to adjust to his opponents speed.  Namor flew from the hulk and jumped in the water and started swimming, and hulk still caught him.

ok here we go........and i'm not longer going for sake of the argument

the fight will all depend on when and if superman gets to the point that he has to take hulk to the sun.

hulk can't take the sun, but if superman waits too long which he most likely will because hulk is not a menace to the world, and too long is not that long of a time.  he won't be able to do it because hulk's reflexes will be too high at that point and he will just power out his grasp.  he will be able to power out because superman is not constantly gaining strength during the fight and hulk is.  to me thats the only way superman can conceivably when.

but put these cats in an unbreakble field powered by all the psychics in both universes.  superman will lose the fight.

its not like i'm saying Hulk will beat superman 100 percent or vice versa, it all depends on the place and the situation.  first time fighting though, i'll give it to the hulk before superman.


----------



## Viciousness (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd have to give it to Hulk. As unknowndanex has shown he has the reflexes to deal with speed freak opponents. Sure Superman could just dodge all day but as soon as he stops to go on the offensive like he did with doomsday hes probably going to get hit. Hulk seems to be capable of taking everything Superman can dish out and growing more powerful  with each blow. Sure people on Supes side are bringing up what if's like what if Superman knows the exact part of Hulks oblangada to target so Hulk cant get his adreneline release or something. But knowing a weakness like that which took another villain research to figure out is like saying what if Hulk knows Supes weakness is kryptonite and brings a peice.


Superman is probably going to keep hitting Hulk getting him angrier and more powerful until his power eclipses supermans own, and his reflexes will be on point to use that power and bash Superman unconscious. If Supes decides to dispose of Hulk before that by flying him away somewhere of course he'd win but thats almost like a cop out. If he tries to fight him like he fought doomsday, Hulk will probably win. As far as Bullets scans go Unknowndanex already shot down most of those and pointed out Bullet lying, just as he was convinced he was right in the past before getting completely shot down.


----------



## Scorpio3.14 (Jan 28, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> um what are u talking about, that was a weaker version of the Hulk that did that.



IIRC the version of the Hulk that fought Gladiator was merged Hulk. The strength & healing of Savage Hulk with the intelligence of Bruce Banner. The only reason some see him as weakers is that he had a cap to his strength, when he got too mad he turned into Savage Banner which was useless lol I guess I should clarify though, when I said a more powerful version of the Hulk, I didnt mean physcially stronger, I ment a better fighter and more effective for this fight. I guess more powerful was a bad choice of words.

However my origional point still stands. Gladiator would have killed Hulk twice in that fight if it wasnt for Merged Hulk's intelligence. Hulk stated himself that Gladiator would have killed Hulk if he didnt come up with that "backfire" thing. Also Hulk stated that he would have died when Gladiator took him to space if he didnt quickly think of the thunder clap idea. Like I said, Gladiator would have whooped regular Hulk and Hulk pretty much stated that fact.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> u should also notice that for some reason when Superman is getting a big battle DC makes the rest of the JLA look like shit.



All the stuff I was talkinga bout was done in Superman's own comic when none of the JLA was around. However, you should also notice that for some reason when Hulk is gettign a big battle Marvel makes whoever he is fighting look like shit *cough*Gladiator*cough* If Gladiator really could fight between nanoseconds, Hulk whould not have even had time to process that he was being taken to space before he was already there. PIS should not be used as evidense in a battle dome fight.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> and all the caption was talking bout was peace and the challenge ahead, but if u pay attention to superman they reason doomsday was beaten that easily was cause of his confidence and he experienced fear.  doomsday didn't fight like he did the other time, remember doomsday also gets stronger after every battle but no one had beat him like imperiex did.



Actually it was later revieled that Doomsday evolving intelligence after being killed by Imperiex actually did make him stronger. Atleast according to Apokolipian scientists who are millions of years more advanced then Earths lol



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> cause i have shown hulk face people that were that fast, gladiator fights in nanoseconds.  he has fought hyperion and handed him his ass (hulk that is).  his reflexes are ranked pretty high, thats why he was able to catch SS on his board.  and beat all the other fast people that were supposed to use their superior speed to beat him.



Can you show me a time where Hulk beats someone actually useing Super-speed? Ive read the Gladiator vs Hulk fight and Gladiator dosnt use his super speed like you claim he did. The closest thing to it that Gladiator did was try to take Hulk up to space however even that took like ~10 seconds atleast and space is only about 60 miles up, thast waaaaaaaaaaay under the speed of light. What happened to that nanosecond stuff????




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> well how will superman know that the hulk is bruce banner anyway.  wasp knew the source and superman doesn't.  and ultimate is canon just not 616 canon.  just gotta specify the version of hulk now.



Possible the same way Hulk magically knew that Gladiator had a weakness to certain kinds of radiation?  Just another reason why the Gladiator/Hulk fight was such BS.


----------



## Bullet (Jan 28, 2006)

> DrunkenYoshimaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## unknowndanex (Jan 29, 2006)

bullet u haven't shut down anything considering u couldn't say anything to me after i showed the hyperion/gladiator scan from the comic u claimed u have.  and as i've seen u responded to nothing i said, u must be digging for comics or searching for ones u don't own, but u haven't shut down anything.  i'm talkin to scorpio and lucky now unless u come with a factual statement instead of a "what i think and i love superman" statement.  now what haven't i brought proof of, like i said before i showed hulk fighting a superman like person, hulk has beaten hyperion unless u want me to show that pic too.  u have nothing for me so leave it alone.  

to scorpio now........



> IIRC the version of the Hulk that fought Gladiator was merged Hulk. The strength & healing of Savage Hulk with the intelligence of Bruce Banner. The only reason some see him as weakers is that he had a cap to his strength, when he got too mad he turned into Savage Banner which was useless lol I guess I should clarify though, when I said a more powerful version of the Hulk, I didnt mean physcially stronger, I ment a better fighter and more effective for this fight. I guess more powerful was a bad choice of words.
> 
> However my origional point still stands. Gladiator would have killed Hulk twice in that fight if it wasnt for Merged Hulk's intelligence. Hulk stated himself that Gladiator would have killed Hulk if he didnt come up with that "backfire" thing. Also Hulk stated that he would have died when Gladiator took him to space if he didnt quickly think of the thunder clap idea. Like I said, Gladiator would have whooped regular Hulk and Hulk pretty much stated that fact.



thank you for clearing that up, i understand where u're coming from now.  but u can't really say that normal hulk wouldn't have thought of that, considering he goes off random motions to a fight, so thats really up to the premises of the fight and whats going on.  i'm not saying hulk will do it or not, but there is a chance he would and no one can really say he would not.  its basically 50/50 with the thunderclap idea.



> All the stuff I was talkinga bout was done in Superman's own comic when none of the JLA was around. However, you should also notice that for some reason when Hulk is gettign a big battle Marvel makes whoever he is fighting look like shit *cough*Gladiator*cough* If Gladiator really could fight between nanoseconds, Hulk whould not have even had time to process that he was being taken to space before he was already there. PIS should not be used as evidense in a battle dome fight.



well like i said before, hulk's reflexes have increased before and after Heroes Reborn.  Also , Banner has also gotten more control of the Hulk as well making him more level-headed so he's not an idiot as well, so actually i would say he would probably most likely do that thunderclap.  it hasn't been revealed to what extent his reflexes have changed, but they have.  i referred to the JLA cause u referred to Doomsday beating them.



> Actually it was later revieled that Doomsday evolving intelligence after being killed by Imperiex actually did make him stronger. Atleast according to Apokolipian scientists who are millions of years more advanced then Earths lol



wasn't saying doomsday wasn't stronger cause thats his power.  but doomsday was never beaten in a way imperiex did.  when doomsday fought to a draw with superman he still killed him and it was a good fight.  but imperiex just beat the living hell outta him showing him that he wasn't all that.  doomsday came back stronger with fear which he never had.  which is why superman was talking about it.  he wouldn't refer to it for no reason.



> Can you show me a time where Hulk beats someone actually useing Super-speed? Ive read the Gladiator vs Hulk fight and Gladiator dosnt use his super speed like you claim he did. The closest thing to it that Gladiator did was try to take Hulk up to space however even that took like ~10 seconds atleast and space is only about 60 miles up, thast waaaaaaaaaaay under the speed of light. What happened to that nanosecond stuff????



did it say it took 10 seconds i don't remember.  if it did it did.  but if it didn't then u can't say, comics do like to show things by picture with no clock there to show the clock speed.

i didn't say gladiator used his super-speed against hulk, i said he can and he used it against hyperion.  i can't show Hulk catching SS on his board and i saw the hyperion fight through someone else.  but Hulk has beaten hyperion on several ocassions.  he's beaten the evil hyperion twice and the good hyperion once.  i'm sure on one of those ocassions hyperion displayed his speed, but hey i can't supply the scans for that.  of course thats all bullet relies on, hopefully scorpio, u'll take my word for it considering i haven't lied.  hulk did lose once to the evil hyperion but that was during the Weapon X (Exiles) but i think that was his only win.  beyonder also referred to Hulk as power incarnate and said he reminded him of himself back in the Secret Wars.  oh yeah Hulk actually outsmarted Thor (savage hulk) in Thor 385 (Be Thou God or Monster).  He also fought Silver Surfer and Namor and held his own.

not knowing how powerful Fin Fang Foom's fire is but this is pretty good.  just an interesting pic, not trying to prove a point here.







> Possible the same way Hulk magically knew that Gladiator had a weakness to certain kinds of radiation? Just another reason why the Gladiator/Hulk fight was such BS.



Gladiator reacted to the radiation.



			
				Bullet said:
			
		

> No he hasn't. He hasn't brung any proof and I've sut down all his arguements just like I doing to yours.



show me where u shot down anything, last time i checked i responded to u and shut down anything u had to say.  u have made no points in the comments u made to DrunkenYoshimaster.  u talk about superman's versatility, but all u normally talk about is a speedblitz, WOW THAT IS SO VERSATILE.

show me where the hulk has been beaten by brute force.

and of course Hulk isn't Doomsday, that would be a disgrace to the Hulk considering he would kill Doomsday.


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## Bullet (Jan 29, 2006)

> unknowndanex said:
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## Viciousness (Jan 29, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Even if Superman does get hit (which I doubt), he's durable enough to take Hulk punches.



Durable enough to take them until Hulks own strength as a result of his anger surpasses supes limit.



> Hulk isn't going to be walking through hundreds of punches every second, for every punch Hulk give Supes, he'll be getting 100 more in return. Also, Hulk isn't walking through Heat Vision either.



And he'll take those hundred punches getting stronger all the while. Until his strength surpasses supes own. based ont he amount of force he's hit with Hulks power is likely to go up faster. Im pretty sure Mike Tyson punching him is going to get him angrier and stronger than me punching him. Similarly Supes is going to create a more powerful Hulk by hitting him, than the one Ironman fought.





> Were not bringing any what if's.  Superman can do the same thing Ironman, Thor, and countless others who has beaten Hulk, and that's by brute force. Superman is more than strong enough to do it, and is far faster than any of them.


Have you seen these fights?  Either youre lying again or youre the most biased user on these boards. Thor definately doesnt beat Hulk when it comes to brute strength. It's only through the use of his magical hammer Mjolnir that he stands a chance. And last time I checked Superman doesnt have any enchanted/magical abilities, in fact he's very weak to them.


As far as Ironman goes, besides him using every trick in the book and it not really being a fight of pure brute force, but more like him sucker punching an unsuspecting hulk temporarily blinded who probably didnt know he was there, those scans youre posting look like their from the 60's I thouhgt we were doing the current incarnations of both characters. Becuas eas someone pointed out, posssibly you, Superman used to suck alot more at the start of post crisis. 



> Hulk isn't Doomsday.



thanks for proving my point, and he's not going to back down out of fear and cowardice from Supes punches like the new doomsday did. And comparing the two is an affront to the Hulk.




> No he hasn't. He hasn't brung any proof and I've sut down all his arguements just like I doing to yours.



What are you talking about? 

As far as completely shut down Im not talking about you being able to make a feeble counter argument. Nor am I talking about posting 500 pics showing the same thing which still doesnt prove your character would win. Im talking about those times when you were completely and utterly wrong to any unbiased veiwer and continued to argue on like a know-it-all who was convinced he was right. Specifically anime filler being made in the US for dbz Toriyama playing a hand in designing that filler. Those two times proved you'll keep arguing on and on about things you dont know about. 

Also Ive become fairly convinced over time that you really only know about DC comics, and pretend to know about everything else, scrounging the net for pics from different series and arguments on battles which you know very little of, and those two examples back then pretty much confirmed it IMO.




> Bring a better arguement next time.



with you it doesnt matter how good the opposing argument is. You never know when to quit and would drag things on forever if possible.


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## Seany (Jan 29, 2006)

Superman wins this one


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## Bullet (Jan 29, 2006)

> DrunkenYoshimaster said:
> 
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## unknowndanex (Jan 29, 2006)

> Hulk will be KOed by that time, Hulk doesn't even grow in strength that fast, other wise Thor whouldn't have beaten that so many times.



go read Hulk Annual 2001, and Thor 385 since u claim Thor just kicks his ass.



> That's because the other two shut you down, I don't have to respond to every one of your posts. Aslo, you still havn't proven that Gladiator, Thor, and Hyperion fight at high speeds (which you keep avoiding). Gladiator didn't use his abilities aswell as Superman does, the fight with Hulk proves that.



how has anyone shut down anyone of my post, now u're just running off at the mouth.  and u must've decided not to look at the pick on page 5 when i showed u gladiator fighting hyperion at high speeds during their fight.  if u read a post for once in your life and understand whats goin on, Scorpio has seen the picture and responded but now he knows they fight at high speeds.  why? cause he saw my scans.  like DrunkenYoshimaster says, you're just to stubborn to look at anything that proves you wrong.  i'm not avoiding it cause i proved it. go to page 5 and holla at me boy.



> Why? so they could shut you down too.



show me where they shut me down, apparantly it hasn't happened.  



> Both times Hyperion wasn't using his speed either.



seeing as how u normally run off at the mouth and just talk, tell me the times hulk fought hyperion.  and make that 3 times considering they fought more than twice.  twice against the evil hyperion and once against the good one.  u probably won't know cause u probably don't have em or know anything about them.



> You never shut me down or brung proof that Thor, Gladiator, and Hyperion can speedbiltz, you avoided the question. I stoped to let the other two go since they responded to your posts, I didn't have to yet.



i don't bring proof twice, just go to page 5 and look at the Gladiator and Hyperion pics from the comic you claimed you had.  



> I made great points, he made none.



you have made no good point, where is one, just show me one point you have made.  you post scan and i disect them all.  everytime i've stepped in a thread with you, your scans are shut down.  its clear you know only DC, you lied about having the Gladiator/Hyperion comic, and in the DBZ thread you said USA anime is filler and Japanese isn't.  Even though the USA is cut and Japanese isn't then u said Arlia is not in the Japanese one.  Then you gave us a website that proved you wrong.  your history as far as i can see is not really good when it comes to making points.



> It's when the person Hulk is fighting is several times faster than him and will be throwing planet destroy punches with every blow, can fly, melt him with Heat Vision, and Freeze him doing all types of combos to him. Hulk stands no chance!



um me and several others if u read the post basically agree that freeze breath and heat vision won't get the job done.  oh yeah and gladiator's heat vision is in excess of 3000 F so thats a bare minimum of what he was doing to a weaker version of the hulk.



> So you claiming that he did, but can't prove it with evidence.



well didnt u say that SS wasn't going all out against the hulk went i brought that point up, so i guess it isn't a claim.  please stick with your arguments.  just because your life depends on scans that i shoot down doesn't mean everyone else depends on them.  because some people have knowledge of comicbooks.



> So you can't prove it.



and you can't prove against it.

as for the ironman pics can you take it down a notch on the size or something, for some reason the pictures are coming in too slow or not at all, but hey look old as shit bullet.  u cry about the doomsday fight but then you show an older pic of hulk fighting IronMan.  The most recent fight they had was when IronMan needed the Hulkbuster armor to beat him.  That was in IronMan 305, go read a marvel comic.  And IronMan can beat Superman if he had time before the fight so whats your point? 



> Yep, Hulk's not close to Doomsday in speed, Strength (without being very angry), and he can't take energy blasts like Doomsday (who was only stoped by Impereix)



didn't he die from fighting Superman in the first fight, they both died from the fatal blows.  so superman beat him too, a much weaker version of superman that you point out too many times.  you haven't made a point, you run off at the mouth just like i say all the time.  

and Hulk wins



> Thor at base is stronger and he normally beats Hulk in just h2h.



yeah, go read Thor 385 and Hulk Annual 2001.  in Hulk Annual 2001 he beat Thor in 3 hits.  he actually beat thor twice in that annual.  in Thor 385, Thor used his hammer and Hulk figured out that it would be in his best interest to get that hammer away from Thor.  he also beat Thor in a Defenders issue.  He  also defeated Thor in Hulk 255.  at this present time Hulk would get his ass whupped by Thor, but then again i don't think anyone can beat Thor at this point.



> The current incarnation was beaten by Spiderman too.



prove that one my friend.  that was not even normal hulk, and Doc Sampson was helping out.   um hulk did catch spiderman, he waited for that weak punch to connect and he gave him a concussion.  what exactly do your pics prove?  spiderman has this thing called spider senses, the guy dodged light speed attacks before.  so of course he could move, but he then had to get physical and you saw the result. oooooooooo i got a concussion.

So i guess once again your scans have meant nothing considering they don't help an argument once i disect them.  but why don't you go buy the comics i said check out since you claimed you seen Thor beat Hulk so many times.  buy those and get back to me, some good comics to start a marvel collection.

i wonder if lucky agreed or understood me on the post i responded to him with.  about how i really thought the fight would go.  can anyone other than bias bullet respond to this, i would like to here your take on it.  this was really an unbias look at the fight.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> the fight will all depend on when and if superman gets to the point that he has to take hulk to the sun.
> 
> hulk can't take the sun, but if superman waits too long which he most likely will because hulk is not a menace to the world, and too long is not that long of a time. he won't be able to do it because hulk's reflexes will be too high at that point and he will just power out his grasp. he will be able to power out because superman is not constantly gaining strength during the fight and hulk is. to me thats the only way superman can conceivably when.
> 
> ...



oh yeah..



> Hulk will be KOed by that time, Hulk doesn't even grow in strength that fast, other wise Thor whouldn't have beaten that so many times.



he wasn't that angry in Secret Wars when he held up 150 billion tons. think before you speak.

and with the FFF thing, i wasn't tryin to prove a point, it was just a tight moment.  about the imperiex thing, i'm not comparing that guy to anyone.  i was just sayin that doomsday never got his ass kicked like that so he finally knew what it was like to fear someone.  that really took a tole on him when he fought superman again.  that is why superman referred to it.  but don't mistake me for comparing hulk or superman to imperiex.


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## Bullet (Jan 29, 2006)

> go read Hulk Annual 2001, and Thor 385 since u claim Thor just kicks his ass.



I have it and I never said Hulk didn't beat Thor before, but that he did lose to people with physical force, including Thor.




> how has anyone shut down anyone of my post, now u're just running off at the mouth. and u must've decided not to look at the pick on page 5 when i showed u gladiator fighting hyperion at high speeds during their fight. if u read a post for once in your life and understand whats goin on, Scorpio has seen the picture and responded but now he knows they fight at high speeds. why? cause he saw my scans. like DrunkenYoshimaster says, you're just to stubborn to look at anything that proves you wrong. i'm not avoiding it cause i proved it. go to page 5 and holla at me boy.



Gladiator or Hyperion has never fought at high speeds, even when they were fighting each other. Still waiting for scans of Thor, Gladiator, and Hyperion fighting at high speeds too (which you keep trying to avoid).

1.) Hulk may have unlimited strength depending on how mad he gets, but he doesn't have unlimited anger. Hulk can only get so mad to a certain point. Hulk has nothing that whould help him in this fight, his strength alone isn't enough.

2.) Superman is so fast hulk wouldn't even see his hits coming, and there's no way that hulk would be able to hit Superman. With Superman's combination of strength and speed, Hulk stands no chance at beating him.

3.) Superman can fly, if he hit Hulk into the air, he doesn't have to let him fall. Superman could constantly spray Hulk with Heat Vision and speedbilitz Hulk from all kinds of directions with attacks. Hulk won't be able to do anything about it since he's not able to fly or move/react fast enough to get out of the air.

4.) Superman could biltz Hulk into space.

5.) Superman can create a vortex, suking all the air out of the Hulk.

6.) Superman could fry Hulk's brain with Heat Vision.



> he wasn't that angry in Secret Wars when he held up 150 billion tons. think before you speak.



Superman moves planets.





Planet>>>>moutain


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## unknowndanex (Jan 29, 2006)

> I have it and I never said Hulk didn't beat Thor before, but that he did lose to people with physical force, including Thor.



i was talkin bout all those comics cause of the way you just referred to Thor and Hulk as just Thor kickin his ass on too many ocassions and thats not it.  but Hulk has beaten Thor too many times compared to Thor beating him, and Thor is a very versatile fighter contrary to your belief.



			
				Bullet said:
			
		

> Gladiator or Hyperion has never fought at high speeds, even when they were fighting each other. Still waiting for scans of Thor, Gladiator, and Hyperion fighting at high speeds too (which you keep trying to avoid).
> 
> 1.) Hulk may have unlimited strength depending on how mad he gets, but he doesn't have unlimited anger. Hulk can only get so mad to a certain point. Hulk has nothing that whould help him in this fight, his strength alone isn't enough.
> 
> ...



are u asking for pictures of them using speed on hulk or just them using speed period.  because on page 5 of this post i showed hyperion and gladiator fighting at high speeds, i don't know what i'm avoiding here.  u should clear that up for me.

this is Gladiator and Hyperion
Link removed
Link removed
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in Thor issue 185, he flew three times the speed of light. but that doesn't fit into fighting at high speeds, but a great feat none the less.

but for Thor's speed, i don't have the scans but as usual i can throw the issues at you.

in Invaders 33 he deflected thousands of artillery bullets with one arm
Marve Team Up 26 stated he can move faster than mortal eyes can see
in Thor 354 he played around with Hela using his speed which she said was incomprehensible
The High Evolutionary also created a super-speedster named Zefra using Thor's DNA in Avengers 14.



> Superman moves planets.



thats cause hulk doesn't fly, if he could fly he would move them.  beyonder did refer to him as power incarnate.

now for your points, half of those have already been discussed.  hulk can adapt to speed, he has to do it damn near all the time.  Hulk's reflexes are good enough for him to roll some of superman's punches and wait for him to connect and catch him at he moment. if superman is throwin 1000 punches it will be easy to catch one of them.  someone tried to blitz hulk into space.  storm tried to suck his air out in a vortex and it didn't work.  hulk will not stand there and let superman fry his brain.  this guy does not stand in one spot.


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## unknowndanex (Jan 29, 2006)

sorry for another double post but this is for bullet

my brother took the hyperion/gladiator pics off, so go to page 5 and look at the 4th post from the bottom.  it'll show the pics.

if u don't look at those then u just don't wanna see them.

but scorpio, lucky, and drunkenyoshimaster can all vouch that the pics are on page 5.


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## Bullet (Jan 29, 2006)

> unknowndanex said:
> 
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## unknowndanex (Jan 29, 2006)

> Thor has won just as many times as Hulk, if not more.


give me issues on when these ocurred since i provided hulk's wins.



> Those scans don't show having fight/reflexive speeds, only in flight speed.



if u paid attention to the second picture.  gladiator was coming in for a punch and when the punch was about to connect, nanoseconds later hyperion had already punched back.  read the caption.



> Thor has never shown to have superspeed, I don't won't issue numbers, show me scans of him using superspeed. Thor is slower than Spiderman and Mongooes, he doesn't have superspeed.



you're just proving my point on your lack of Marvel knowledge or comics

look i'll have to dig up too many comic books of Thor's speed for you, so i'm not, but if u look up the issue numbers you'll see it for yourself.  u don't even know much about Thor from what i see so i won't push that argument with you.  and he kicked Mongoose ass the last time they fought.  Marvel Handbook even has him at the highest speed 7 which is warp speed transcending the speed of light.  The guy even beat Silver Surfer when he went insane, and his speed was ridiculous at that point.  If Thor doesn't have Mjorhin he is not as fast, but the hammer does make him faster.



> He could move them when being extremely angry, but that'll take awhile to for to reach.



wasn't that angry when he held up 150 billion tons.  doesn't need to be that angry to move a planet.  he also gains power in rage, stress, and range.  



> They won't be easy for Hulk since he's way to slow to catch any of them.



u don't have to be fast to catch 1 of 1000 punches, just hold your hand out and grab.




> Gladiator grabed him by his waste, Superman won't do something like that.


you don't know this considering you have nothing to do with Superman



> Hulk needs to breath, Superman doesn't have to let up on. He could float above him taking away alway air where ever Hulk stands.



Storm didn't let up, he hit her ass.



> Hulk won't have a choice since he's not fast enough to do anything about.



don't have to be fast to move



> To Superman Hulk will be in slow motion.



not really, the only thing that would be in slow motion would be if they made a movie of the fight and superman was getting knocked back by Hulk.  that would look great in slow motion.



> Hulk has never adabt to speeds on Superman's level, he can't even touch Spiderman who's way slower than Supes (who whould hit Spiderman with little effort).


you just showed me a pic of hulk touching spiderman, come on lets get real.  u're running off at the mouth again.



> Hulk's reflexes aren't good enough to dodge any of Superman's punches. Here's Superman when he doesn't feel like being bothered with Mongul. Superman also uses MAs when he's fighting.
> 
> Check it out!



the pic isn't coming in, it just shows the top.


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## Viciousness (Jan 29, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> > Thor has won just as many times as Hulk, if not more.
> 
> 
> thanks to his trusty magic hammer
> ...


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## unknowndanex (Jan 29, 2006)

well here is some pics of him fighting Thor "who beats him so many times"

fist to fist with mjolrin


Thor after 3 hits



Screws him into the sidewalk


Thor 385 when Hulk proves he's no dummy
Link removed
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end of fight
Link removed

you think his healing factor is so slow

Think heat vision will do so much?

Hulk healing from skeletal 
http://img130.exs.cx/img130/3038/Healing.jpg[/img]

due to anger his healing increases, multiple holes through his body



hulk heals around his hand


think brain damage would work



u think his durability is bad

adamantium crushing force can't mess with hulk


anger increases durability as well


Genis makes hulk angry this quickly since he doesn't get angry fast


what form of radiation can get the job done?
http://img226.echo.cx/img226/8564/avengersih322a3sj.jpg[/img]

insane Thor shocking hulk



storm has a tornado plus lightining inside it


hulk is not fully transformed


orion missle at ground zero


sonic boom thunderclap underwater, imagine full force on ground


we all know hulk is at his strongest now, look at secret wars though


lifts the Galaxy Master's massive starship and isn't that upset, looks way bigger than 100tons


guy forms tidal waves from swimming


it seems u're not the only one with scans my friend.  superman will lose to hulk.  drunkenyoshimaster has already showed what i have been saying all along.  speed is something hulk adapts too, i know superman is way faster than quicksilver, but that was a bit too easy for hulk right there.  and thats at the speed of sound.


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## Valdens (Jan 30, 2006)

if its an actual unbiased no pis/cis fight imo supes wins due to his speed. he could throw hulk into the sun before he knew what was going on

if it was in an unbiased comic then hulk wins, due to the fact supes never uses his speed to automatically take out everyone in 1 second because that wouldnt be cool.


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## unknowndanex (Jan 30, 2006)

Valdens said:
			
		

> if its an actual unbiased no pis/cis fight imo supes wins due to his speed. he could throw hulk into the sun before he knew what was going on
> 
> if it was in an unbiased comic then hulk wins, due to the fact supes never uses his speed to automatically take out everyone in 1 second because that wouldnt be cool.



Reps for that, i said that so long ago (top of this page) and no one responded to it.  It all depends if and when superman says i gotta throw this guy in the sun.  If he takes too long to think of it and keeps tryin to fight the guy, he'll lose.


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## Bullet (Jan 30, 2006)

Valdens said:
			
		

> > if it was in an unbiased comic then hulk wins, due to the fact supes never uses his speed to automatically take out everyone in 1 second because that wouldnt be cool.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bullet (Jan 30, 2006)

> Sure it doesnt seem like you know much outside of DC but I hope you know who quicksilver is



Superman is far faster than Quicksilver and Hulk isn't fighting him at high speeds, but only knocked him out of the way. 




> Reflexes to catch a hypersonic jet from the air



Superman isn't a jet and unlike the jet, Superman can move out of the way. His fighting/reflexive speeds are greater than the Hulks.



> this is wonderman, whose capable of moving at Superhuman speeds calculated at over 25,000 mph, and here he is awed by the speed of Hulks attacks.




Again none of them have fighting/reflexive speeds like Superman. Hulk will never hit Superman like he just did to Wonderman. Superman could vibrate through Hulk's attacks or just move out of the way.



> and what do you mean "Hulk can't even touch spiderman"



Sure he can catch, but he's still slower than him. And Superman is far faster than Spiderman.



> weren't you implying supes would speedblits ram him into space once he realizes Hulks gotten too strong? Soon as he makes contact it's a two fisted over the head hulk smash back into the ground.



No. Glads grabed him by the waste, Superman won't do something like that. Superman could grab Hulk by his legs tossing him into the air, grab a giant piece of rock Hulk is standing on, tossing him into midair then just have his way with him, or he could use a combination of his Heat Vision and Ice Breath; He could use Heat Vision as a cucussive force to push Hulk into the air and just repeat. 

Like he's doing to here. Superman also takes his opponents into the air (with breath, vision, or physical powers) and toys with them...even using them as his weapons. 







> as far as what you were saying earlier about Supes moving planets while Hulk scans just showed him lifting huge mountains, how many planets has Supes moved post crisis?



He moved the Moon twice by himself and held a black hole in the palm of his hands. 



> also hulks cranium is alot harder to penetrate than u think. Here's him taking 50,000 volts to the head:



Heat Vision is far worse than 50,000 volts.




> since you dont listen to reasonable evidence and only post pictures, hopefully this will get through to you.



I've listen to evidence, but none of those feats will help Hulk in a fight against Superman, unless Supes does nothing at all.




> well here is some pics of him fighting Thor "who beats him so many times"



I've got some Thor vs. Hulk fights too, but I'll wait for a Thor vs. Hulk thread before I let loose.



> due to anger his healing increases, multiple holes through his body



But that doesn't mean Superman have to stop, do it? Superman isn't going to wait around for Hulk still heal himself. 



> think brain damage would work



He's still knocked out though



> adamantium crushing force can't mess with hulk



Superman force is greater than that machine.




> storm has a tornado plus lightining inside it



Storm isn't nearly as durable as Superman, a rock won't stop him and he could easily dodge it, then continue with the tornado.



> orion missle at ground zero



Superman attacks are worse than missles.




> sonic boom thunderclap underwater, imagine full force on ground




Doesn't matter, a sonic clap isn't working on Superman (who has fought a being that uses sonic sounds waves against)



> it seems u're not the only one with scans my friend. superman will lose to hulk.



None was really that impressive, Superman will win.




> drunkenyoshimaster has already showed what i have been saying all along. speed is something hulk adapts too, i know superman is way faster than quicksilver, but that was a bit too easy for hulk right there.



Quicksilver isn't nearly as fast or strong as Superman and can't take a hit like Superman could. 




> and thats at the speed of sound.



Superman is way above sound speed.


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## unknowndanex (Jan 30, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Superman is far faster than Quicksilver and Hulk isn't fighting him at high speeds, but only knocked him out of the way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



he didn't have too considering he one hitter quitter him in once punch even though he was moving fast.  oh yeah, for future references we all know Superman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Quicksilver but u asked for a speed reference and we're giving it to u.

WonderMan does have reflex speeds that are pretty damn fast, Thor does as well which is why he fairs so well against just about anyone in the Marvel Universe.  Well now he will just beat everyone but thats another story.  As you can see i'm a Thor fan at heart next to Surfer.

as far as the spiderman, quicksilver, and WonderMan thing goes, the speed is increasing from spiderman to WonderMan and Hulk has yet to show that he is experiencing a serious problem.  they are faster than him, yet he adapts.

there have also been times when superman has grabbed someone by the waist into space, but u're correct in what u said though.  but superman tryin to play with the hulk would just give hulk a good ole free hit.  superman using heat vision as a concussive force wouldn't really do much to hulk considering hulk takes more powerful blasts like nothing.  Genis' blast are much more powerful than superman much to your disbelief and u see how hulk felt about that.  i don't know why u think the freeze breath will work, u seem to be the only one who thinks so.

as far as stregth goes u should give up on that because most of those pictures were near base form and at base form of hulk.  and hulk has held open a black hole too so whats your point.  he is infinite in power, INFINITE, superman does have a limit, and it depends on his solar radiation.

and actually, there was a lot more done to hulk than just damaging the brain stem, he was actually having transformation problems then.  but i'm just showin u that lobotomy wouldn't really work.  and if superman moves out the way while making a vortex the vortex will cease or slow down, either way hulk will escape that crappy move.  and he used that vortex in your pic more so because of the guy's fire abilities than him breathing.

of course we knew u wouldn't think the pics were impressive, and thats because it proves most of what u say wrong.  all u can say is superman will win and basically have no means of backing up what u say.

we proved his healing factor is better than u say
his durability
his reflexes and ability to adapt

u have proven nothing

Valdens is basically saying only way superman can win is to throw hulk in the sun.  Me and DrunkenYoshimaster have basically thrown anything u have to say in the garbage.  And for whenever there will be a hulk vs thor thread i would love to see what u got.

cause as far as i'm concerned, u're nothing but a DC boy.


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## lucky (Jan 30, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> doomsday didn't fight like he did the other time, remember doomsday also gets stronger after every battle but no one had beat him like imperiex did.
> 
> ......................
> 
> ...



imperiex is a cosmic being. he's on a whole 'nother level.  That's like the hulk losing to galactus.  It's understandable. 




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> cause i have shown hulk face people that were that fast, gladiator fights in nanoseconds.  he has fought hyperion and handed him his ass (hulk that is).  his reflexes are ranked pretty high, thats why he was able to catch SS on his board.  and beat all the other fast people that were supposed to use their superior speed to beat him.
> 
> 
> have to give u that one, they did throw darkseid to the side now.  but gladiator and hyperion >>>> DOS Superman so whats the point.  hyperion actually did try to use his speed on the hulk and it didn't work.  marvel heroes are very adept at adapting to speed.  gladiator was running circles around Thor but he adapted to the fight.  Hulk beat Namor, IronMan, WonderMan, and Hercules at the same time in Incredible Hulk 316.  Namor is pretty damn fast and so is WonderMan, IronMan is fast depending on the suit.  don't worry i'm not saying they're as fast as superman cause WonderMan was probably the fastes and he was at 25,000mph.  but hulk is no way near that speed and won the fight.



what scorpio meant with his scans was that superman is capable of becoming intangible REACTIVELY to every punch that doomsday threw.  That meant htat doomsday could NOT connect a punch with supes (unless he let him).

Everytime doomsday would throw a punch, superman would vibrate and his punch would go right through.  This is significant because if doomsday is indeed faster than the hulk (which he probably is), and superman dodged doomsday's punches, then that means that the hulk *cannot* consistently connect his fists to superman *at all*.  I didn't consider it before.


Hyperion and Gladiator probably are really fast, but they've never demonstrated speed like that before -- where they vibrate themselves fast enough that they phase through solid objects.  Kinda like waht vision does.  




			
				DrunkenYoshimaster said:
			
		

> Sure people on Supes side are bringing up what if's like what if Superman knows the exact part of Hulks oblangada to target so Hulk cant get his adreneline release or something. But knowing a weakness like that which took another villain research to figure out is like saying what if Hulk knows Supes weakness is kryptonite and brings a peice.



Nah.  Superman's a scientist.  He KNOWS where the structure of the brain, human body, whether someone is lying or not due to heart beat and tone of voice, how much pressure is on a person at the bottom of the ocean, the frequencies of hearing of a dog vs. human vs him, etc etc etc.  

There's only two things superman needs to find out to use his lobotomy method:

1) This one's a no-brainer: the angrier the hulk gets, the stronger he gets. 
2) His heat vision can indeed penetrate hulk's flesh.

Superman would never lobotomize an opponent, of course, but i'm assuming that in fights in the outskirts battledom, all the characters are going all out without any mercy and straight for the win.




			
				DrunkenYoshimaster said:
			
		

> But knowing a weakness like that which took another villain research to figure out is like saying what if Hulk knows Supes weakness is kryptonite and brings a peice.



All superman brings to this fight (even in the case of lobotomy) is own reporter's intuition (his own detective skills, which he has), knowledge of science, and his powers -- essentially, himself.  

To bring soething like kryptonite in this is bringing in 3rd party object... can't do that.  Superman isn't going to bring a "happify yourself" laser gun, just as hulk can't bring in kryptonite.




			
				DrunkenYoshimaster said:
			
		

> Superman is probably going to keep hitting Hulk getting him angrier and more powerful until his power eclipses supermans own, and his reflexes will be on point to use that power and bash Superman unconscious.



If superman indeedy is really going to go into 'slugger mode' and stay in slugger mode, you still can't deny that there's still a chance that superman would knock him out before he gets strong enough to knock supes out.




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> thank you for clearing that up, i understand where u're coming from now.  but u can't really say that normal hulk wouldn't have thought of that, considering he goes off random motions to a fight, so thats really up to the premises of the fight and whats going on.  i'm not saying hulk will do it or not, but there is a chance he would and no one can really say he would not.  its basically 50/50 with the thunderclap idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Like whoa.  That means that superman CAN possibly kill him with just heat vision and taking him to space.........




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> show me where the hulk has been beaten by brute force.



I'm not sure of the others, but in hulk 402 (i think) juggernaut started thrashing him around and might've even killed him if he wasn't ordered back by red skull.  




			
				DrunkenYoshimaster said:
			
		

> Durable enough to take them until Hulks own strength as a result of his anger surpasses supes limit.
> 
> And he'll take those hundred punches getting stronger all the while. Until his strength surpasses supes own. based ont he amount of force he's hit with Hulks power is likely to go up faster. Im pretty sure Mike Tyson punching him is going to get him angrier and stronger than me punching him. Similarly Supes is going to create a more powerful Hulk by hitting him, than the one Ironman fought.



....assuming he isn't KO'd like ironman did with ONE PUNCH or nearly beat him to death like juggy did.  And assuming superman is stupid enough to only keep on slugging him, if he indeed can't take on hulk blow for blow.  

You assume that it's impossible to knock out hulk.    




			
				DrunkenYoshimaster said:
			
		

> As far as Ironman goes, besides him using every trick in the book and it not really being a fight of pure brute force, but more like him sucker punching an unsuspecting hulk temporarily blinded who probably didnt know he was there, those scans youre posting look like their from the 60's I thouhgt we were doing the current incarnations of both characters. Becuas eas someone pointed out, posssibly you, Superman used to suck alot more at the start of post crisis.



Suckerpunching?  i call that using strategy.  Only a fool (and ironman's mom didn't raise no foo ) wouldn't use full adavantage in a fight where their life is on the line.  

Iron still punched out the hulk.  If a punch isn't brute force, then what is it?  The fact that the explosion hurt hulk only emphasizes the point that physical force CAN hurt him.  

And correct me if i'm wrong, cuz i'm really not sure, but is current hulk more powerful than 60's hulk? 

Cuz the thing about superman was that current supes was trained by mongul's son in the OWaW arc to fully utilize his powers too their fullest extent.  That was how he got 'stronger'.    




			
				DrunkenYoshimaster said:
			
		

> thanks for proving my point, and he's not going to back down out of fear and cowardice from Supes punches like the new doomsday did. And comparing the two is an affront to the Hulk.



....Doomsday never backed down.  He was KO'd by new and improved supes.  Which comic are you reading?


----------



## jemakai (Jan 30, 2006)

Bullet is right for once, Superman defeats Hulk since it has been proven time and time against that the hulk is still capable of being knocked out.  Superman rarely gets knocked out especially when kryptonite is involved.


----------



## unknowndanex (Jan 30, 2006)

lucky said:
			
		

> imperiex is a cosmic being. he's on a whole 'nother level.  That's like the hulk losing to galactus.  It's understandable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




once again, i am not referring to Imperiex beating doomsday as reference to this.  i'm referring to the fact that superman exposed the fear doomsday had.  a fear he experienced and never recovered from after imperiex beat him.  thats it.

well superman would be intangible all day cause Hulk can punch for days without tiring, and all that vibrating does exert energy.  superman does lose energy while using his speed, not a lot, but if he's vibrating constantly, he will tire pretty quickly.  superman would probably need to use his maneuverability.

it doesn't really take a feat to say if someone can do something or not. could Silver Surfer vibrate before he displayed it in a comic, or course he could.  u can't go off feats all the time just because a writer chose not to do it.  if gladiator is transcending past the speed of light then he can vibrate his molecules.  people in marvel don't fight like that normally though, they wanna actually have a good fight.

i don't think the heat vision will work, as my scans showed hulk's rage can increase faster than all of u think.  just like how his anger increased 3 fold in seconds and genis only blasted him once.  u can't keep goin off a gladiator scan when hulk wasn't even angry forreal.



thats hulks reaction to every form of deadly radiation attack that Monica had

hulk heals from brain damage and that depends on rage too, he healed from the brain damage in my pic even though he was having transformation problems, he was at a weak state.  like u said, superman would most likely figure it out after he sees hulk gettin angrier and angrier, by that time its not gonna work.  and actually that would leave supes vulnerable cause he wouldn't be ready for someone to get up from that type of attack.

here's ironman punch vs hulk for u




the only time IronMan had any business hurting the Hulk was when he made that Hulkbuster Armor, that was a great armor by the way.  But things like are up to the creative team, they wanna make a good story, they don't want their people beating everyone even though they probably could cause its not good business.  this has nothing to do with the fight but this is about some things u will see that don't make since.  superman sales have once again hit a low because they are making the same mistakes they made before Crisis on Infinite Earths.  The Crisis was done because sales were down and to give a fresh start especially for the crazy crap Pre-Crisis Superman was doing (you even had little kids wondering how can someone beat superman if he ever lost) and now it appears they haven't learned and are having another crisis.  if u look underneath what Batman said in crisis about the last time superman inspired anyone.  that was also the last time DC got a big spike, because it showed that yes, superman can be beaten.  marvel on the other hand are influenced by the many fans for different heroes.  Spiderman is the most popular character ever, Ironman was popular as hell back then, x-men, fantastic four, i wouldn't be surprised if Captain America beat the Hulk in Marvel.  Whereas DC, your fanbase is basically centered around Superman, Batman, and WonderWoman.  the only reason the majority would know anyone else is because of JLA on cartoon network.  look at Thor, he has become the strongest person in the universe basically and now he is in the Sleep of the Gods cause whats the point of having Thor beat the hell outta everyone now.  just something i felt i had to get off my chest when it came to people like ironman beating hulk with one punch in his normal armor.

and i wasn't saying hulk never lost by brute force, i was saying Thor didn't do it.  of course i know what juggernaut did, thats my boy.  yet juggs is way more powerful than supes so thats no biggie.  juggs strength can rise right with the hulk's, he's invulnerable, both of which superman isn't.  and the time juggs beat the shit outta him was when hulk was professor, and he didn't know who he was fighting.  but the real fight, man to man, it was a draw and hulk ripped his helmet off and threw him.  but the x-men interrupted the fight.  damn them!!!!!!!!

i wasn't saying doomsday backed down, but doomsday was never the same after the imperiex fight.  and thats why superman made the statement.


----------



## Viciousness (Jan 30, 2006)

unkowndanex already addressed most of the points for me and Im short on time, but there was one in particular I wanted to personally respond to


			
				lucky said:
			
		

> ....Doomsday never backed down.  He was KO'd by new and improved supes.  Which comic are you reading?



how bout the one Scorpio just posted of the fight 2 pages ago: Link removed
Link removed

Doomsday is obviously backing down and not the same due to fear. Supes said it himself. Hulk will only fear more rage, lust for battle, and not fear. Now which comic are you reading? Or were you just skimming through it?


----------



## unknowndanex (Jan 30, 2006)

DY has a point, look at what superman is saying

Doomsday never felt pain or understood it
he never feared anyone
It had affected his strength and speed
he will never be the same again

come on now, lets get real


----------



## Bullet (Jan 30, 2006)

> well superman would be intangible all day cause Hulk can punch for days without tiring, and all that vibrating does exert energy.



Superman is able to fight for weeks and Hulk still isn't fast enough to hit Superman either.



> superman does lose energy while using his speed, not a lot, but if he's vibrating constantly, he will tire pretty quickly. superman would probably need to use his maneuverability.




Superman has never tire from using superspeed.



> it doesn't really take a feat to say if someone can do something or not. could Silver Surfer vibrate before he displayed it in a comic, or course he could. u can't go off feats all the time just because a writer chose not to do it. if gladiator is transcending past the speed of light then he can vibrate his molecules. people in marvel don't fight like that normally though, they wanna actually have a good fight.



No it doesn't, because traveling speed is different from fighting speed. Gladiator (he never used it against Thor, Hulk, or Colossus, he can't fight at high speeds) or Surfer has never fought at high speeds before. 



> i don't think the heat vision will work, as my scans showed hulk's rage can increase faster than all of u think. just like how his anger increased 3 fold in seconds and genis only blasted him once. u can't keep goin off a gladiator scan when hulk wasn't even angry forreal.



Hulk was very anrgy when he nearly got killed from Gladiator's Heat Vision. Superman's Heat Vision will kill him.




> hulk heals from brain damage and that depends on rage too, he healed from the brain damage in my pic even though he was having transformation problems, he was at a weak state.



Hulk was still recovering from brain damage though, so he doesn't heal very quickly from that.



> like u said, superman would most likely figure it out after he sees hulk gettin angrier and angrier, by that time its not gonna work.



How do you know?



> and actually that would leave supes vulnerable cause he wouldn't be ready for someone to get up from that type of attack.



Superman is already in any type of situation and has been in alot worse.


----------



## Scorpio3.14 (Jan 30, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> the only time IronMan had any business hurting the Hulk was when he made that Hulkbuster Armor, that was a great armor by the way.



Did you see the scans Bullet posted on page 6 that shows Ironman KOing the Hulk in his normal suit? Sure, it was a double KO and took everything Ironman had but needless to say Superman>>>>Ironman.

Namor has also KOed Hulk twice IIRC correctly. Namor is good but he aint no Superman.


----------



## unknowndanex (Jan 30, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Superman is able to fight for weeks and Hulk still isn't fast enough to hit Superman either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hulk can't fight for weeks too at peak performance so that didn't prove anything there.  When it comes to superman tiring from speed i was saying he could tired if he vibrated as much as lucky put him out to be.  He doesn't vibrate all the time like that constantly.  Surfer has fought at high speeds before and he vibrated during a fight as well.

i showed u the pic of Glads fighting Hyperion at high speeds so i'm not referring to that anymore.  u seem to be in denial of that pic.

and what makes u think Hulk was that angry.  he was talkin to gladiator the whole time, that wasn't normal hulk, he didn't get that angry at that time.  what are u talkin bout? now u making stuff up

and like i said hulk was having problems in transformation that led to him bein laid out like that, as u can see brain damage was just one of the problems from the pic.

i know that hulk will heal faster because that is what he does when he gets angrier, its called power and abilities of the hulk.

show me where superman lobotomized someone and it didn't work.



			
				Scorpio3.14 said:
			
		

> Did you see the scans Bullet posted on page 6 that shows Ironman KOing the Hulk in his normal suit? Sure, it was a double KO and took everything Ironman had but needless to say Superman>>>>Ironman.
> 
> Namor has also KOed Hulk twice IIRC correctly. Namor is good but he aint no Superman.



now i couldn't see bullet's scans of IronMan, but from what DrunkenYoshimaster is saying, IronMan sucker punched him.  but i don't know the exact basis of the fight so i can't comment.  but i can comment that u saw what IronMan's punch did to Hulk in my pic, its called PIS.  and made a long statement about why hulk will lose to people he has no business losing to.  he lost to Namor twice, yet he beat Namor underwater one time.

as characters go, Hulk>>>>>>>>>>>Ironman, Hulk >>>>>>>>Namor.  The guy fought Juggs to a standstill, he fought SilverSurfer and Namor at the same time, and beat 4 Avengers by himself that included WonderMan, IronMan, Hercules, and i forgot the 4th.

Superman would lose this fight.


----------



## Bullet (Jan 31, 2006)

> Hulk can't fight for weeks too at peak performance so that didn't prove anything there.



So can Superman, which is what I was just trying to prove anyways.




> When it comes to superman tiring from speed i was saying he could tired if he vibrated as much as lucky put him out to be.



But he's never been shown to tire from using superspeed, Superman will just pick the right time to do it anyways, he doesn't have to just stand there phasing through Hulk's attacks.



> He doesn't vibrate all the time like that constantly.



Superman has done it on several occassion, even recently.



> Surfer has fought at high speeds before and he vibrated during a fight as well.



Surfer has never been shown to fight at high speeds, only in flight speed.



> i showed u the pic of Glads fighting Hyperion at high speeds so i'm not referring to that anymore. u seem to be in denial of that pic.



That doesn't show them fighting at high speeds, but only using flight speed. Glads has never fought at high speeds (he has never even used it in fights against people like Thor, Hulk, Thing, and Colossus, all who doesn't have superspeed).



> and what makes u think Hulk was that angry. he was talkin to gladiator the whole time, that wasn't normal hulk, he didn't get that angry at that time. what are u talkin bout? now u making stuff up



Hulk was bigger than he normally is, he whouldn't have been able to take Glads at normal levels.



> and like i said hulk was having problems in transformation that led to him bein laid out like that, as u can see brain damage was just one of the problems from the pic.



Then show the rest, because he seems to be in his normal form with the brain damage, and it doesn't really prove that he's immune to it either, since he's out cold in the pic.



> i know that hulk will heal faster because that is what he does when he gets angrier, its called power and abilities of the hulk.



Hulk can still be badly damaged and KOed though.



> show me where superman lobotomized someone and it didn't work.



There was one posted 2 pages back I think.



> as characters go, Hulk>>>>>>>>>>>Ironman, Hulk >>>>>>>>Namor.



Ironman and Namor has beaten Hulk.



> Superman would lose this fight.



Superman wins.


----------



## unknowndanex (Jan 31, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> So can Superman, which is what I was just trying to prove anyways.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



well for your first point, we're clear on that then

i didn't say he did, thats because superman doesn't exert speed for a whole fight or for long lengths of time.  yes i seen the scans of him vibrating but he did it on like a punch or two.  lucky was saying it like everytime hulk hits at him, he will vibrate, and if he does that, there is a chance that will tire him out.

u must haven't seen too many silver surfer fights

u have to be pretty fast to fight inside a black hole




thats without the board
he has fights in which he actually maneuvers in hand to hand with the board like when he fought Champion.

i would probably have to try to get the rest of the Hulk pic tomorrow.  he is in his normal form, he was having transformation problems though.  his powers were in flux.

and actually the fight was in high speeds considering the nanosecond comment referred to hyperion countering gladiator's punch, pay attention to the pic.

i don't have scans of everything and considering u don't have many marvel comics i can't tell the issue to read cause u most likely don't have it.  thor has been shown to fight fast plenty of times, just pick up a thor comic.

the lobotomy pic showed 2 pages back showed him successfully doing it and the guy didn't recover from it.  i said show me a pic of it not working.

i've explained Marvel compared to DC, like i said i wouldn't be surprised if Captain America beat the Hulk, cause Marvel makes things interesting.  there's no point of having a hero and u can't implement him with the other earth heros.  its like Thor, when he is with the Avengers he is toned down to the fullest, yet his comics show his true powers.  i mean ironman and namor beating hulk doesn't prove anything cause that is how marvel prefers to keep people interested, thats why they don't need a crisis.

Hulk wins

and if Gorilla Grodd can catch Flash, i'm sure Hulk can adapt to Superman.


----------



## lucky (Jan 31, 2006)

DrunkenYoshimaster said:
			
		

> how bout the one Scorpio just posted of the fight 2 pages ago: clicky
> clicky
> 
> Doomsday is obviously backing down and not the same due to fear. Supes said it himself. Hulk will only fear more rage, lust for battle, and not fear. Now which comic are you reading? Or were you just skimming through it?






			
				DrunkenYoshimaster said:
			
		

> thanks for proving my point, and he's not going to back down out of *fear and cowardice* from Supes punches like the new doomsday did. And comparing the two is an affront to the Hulk.



Define backing down.  Here i thought it meant 'stepping back from a fight', which he didn't do.  Didn't doomsday keep on fighting and get knocked out?  

Dictionary.com : Ignoble fear in the face of danger or pain.  

Where in those panels did he turn tail, run, beg for forgiveness or mercy, or 'back down out of cowardice'?


----------



## Viciousness (Jan 31, 2006)

lucky said:
			
		

> Define backing down.  Here i thought it meant 'stepping back from a fight', which he didn't do.  Didn't doomsday keep on fighting and get knocked out?
> 
> Dictionary.com : Ignoble fear in the face of danger or pain.
> 
> Where in those panels did he turn tail, run, beg for forgiveness or mercy, or 'back down out of cowardice'?



If Superman says he's not coming as hard as he would have due to this new fear then Doomsday is backing down due to fear. I didnt say he retreated now, but Im pretty sure that would fit in with most peoples interpratation of Backing Down (Not just UnknowndaneX and mines), and Hulk isnt going to do that was my point.


----------



## lucky (Jan 31, 2006)

DrunkenYoshimaster said:
			
		

> If Superman says he's not coming as hard as he would have due to this new fear then Doomsday is backing down due to fear. I didnt say he retreated now, but Im pretty sure that would fit in with most peoples interpratation of Backing Down (Not just UnknowndaneX and mines), and Hulk isnt going to do that was my point.



yeah, backing down implies to retreat.  It means that during a confrontation, you 'back down', 'retreat', to withdraw back.



			
				Dictionary.com said:
			
		

> back down: To withdraw from a position, opinion, or commitment.



You added 'cowardice' as a reason why he backed down which backs mine and dictionary.com's definition and contradicts your own, as a coward indeed acts ignoble like backs off, retreats, or begs for mercy.


But yes, i understand your saying that hulk doesn't let fear and doubt affect his fighting.


----------



## Viciousness (Jan 31, 2006)

I could say someone is backing down with each blow traded and its going to mean that their resolve is wavering due to fear. And how else do you let fear affect you save for cowardice. It's not really that big of an issue since you get what Im saying, but I dont find the term "back down" do be so concrete that it can only be used when someone flees the battle (but in this case their resolve wavers as a result of . People say Shaun Alexander backs down more every time he gets hit on the field. That doesnt mean he avoids running everytime, simply he wont come as hard next time because he's afraid. Similarly Doomsday's resolve to go all out against Superman was weakened due to fear. I dont think even an expert of the english language would disagree with that interpratation, but this is getting to be argument for arguments sake so back to the battle.


----------



## Bullet (Jan 31, 2006)

> Similarly Doomsday's resolve to go all out against Superman was weakened due to fear. I dont think even an expert of the english language would disagree with that interpratation, but this is getting to be argument for arguments sake so back to the battle.



Doesn't matter though, because Superman has gotten more powerful since there last meeting anyways and Doomsday was attacking with the intentions of killing Superman. The recent Doomsday is even more powerful now though.


----------



## unknowndanex (Jan 31, 2006)

well Doomsday can now be considered as a good guy after tryin to help Superman against Gog (even though Superman died, and i know that Superman was much weaker than the one we're using).  doomsday developed conpassion, and love, and whatever else was good.  he is considerably more powerful.

but your picture wasn't of superman fighting that doomsday, so that was just a vague point.


----------



## Bullet (Feb 3, 2006)

To unknowndanex 




> Hulk wins



Hulk loses



> and if Gorilla Grodd can catch Flash,



Gorilla Grodd fights Flash with mind attacks.



> i'm sure Hulk can adapt to Superman.



Hulk won't have the time or the ability to adapt to Superman before he's KOed.


----------



## unknowndanex (Feb 3, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> To unknowndanex
> 
> 
> 
> ...



To address these points obviously aimed to me..........

Hulk Wins

He didn't use a mind attack in that issue

Hulk always had time to adapt to speed, and Superman will be no different.  and considering he's had experience with the speed, he probably won't have to adapt, he'll know what to do with that guy.


----------



## Bullet (Feb 3, 2006)

> unknowndanex said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## unknowndanex (Feb 3, 2006)

i showed u too many times of hulk fighting people who are fast, DrunkenYoshimaster has too so i won't waste my time of showing those pics.

Superman has no experience with anyone like Hulk, Hulk is stronger and more durable than superman.  Which is normally the formula to beat superman.

oh yeah, and hulk wins


----------



## Arilou (Feb 3, 2006)

If Superman goes all out for the kill from the beginning, he wins.

If He fights like he normally does, he loses. Simple as that.


----------



## Scorpio3.14 (Feb 3, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> Superman has no experience with anyone like Hulk



Doomsday anyone????

Plus there is Lobo, Solomon Grundy, Mongul, Mongul's son, Orion, Darkseid (before he was a jobber), and many others. Superman has beaten people that were many times stronger then him physically even if Hulk gets really pissed.


----------



## unknowndanex (Feb 3, 2006)

Doomsday doesn't have the regeneration factor, the strength increase factor or stronger than him for that.

This ain't no scared Doomsday here.

Doomsday is not the Hulk

and like is said the hulk is the formula for beating superman

Mongul beat him, didn't need much speed
Doomsday killed him
Darkseid used to beat him w/o using omega beams
Solomon Grundy in his right incarnation kicked Supes ass as well making him fly him to another planet, that makes bullet happy considering he has no other chance of beating the hulk less than taking him to the sun.

of course superman has experience, i know he beat mongul easily now but thats cause DC has a habit of turning past villains into jobbers........poor poor Darkseid, its like even though supes gets an increase, the villains still look like they got a decrease.  but yeah, Superman has an experience losing to these guys or gettin his ass kicked.
Darkseid is one character that was noticebly toned down.  come one now, WW defelecting the Omega Beams with the bracelets and Supes smacking it away with heat vision?  Just something that pissed me off.


----------



## lucky (Feb 3, 2006)

Recap time!!!!  This is based on the assumption that they're meeting in a fight and going straight for the win.  We're using current superman and current hulk (savage one i guess).


*Empirical facts*:


*Superman's Powers*: Superspeed, Heat Vision, Microscopic vision, more vision, super hearing, Flight, Invulnerability, Strength, Intangibility (superspeed).  

*Superman's skills*: MArtial arts training/tactical combat training from WW and Mongul (both superman-level physical powerhouses, but with training in fighting since virtually childhood), scientist.

*Superman's disadvantages*: Kryptonite, MAgic


*Hulk's powers*: Limited invulnerability, Accelerated regeneration, Superstrength, enhanced reflexes

*Hulk's Skills*: ...

*Hulk's disadvantages*: psychological instability, negligable skills in tactical combat, low IQ


Just by their list of powers and abilities it's clear that superman has clear advantage.  

------------------------------------------------------------------


Now what the 'official' people say: 



			
				Superman Sourcebook said:
			
		

> I owned an official DC sourcebook on superman before, but i lost the book and therefore can't scan it.  I will tell you what it says to compare the hulk and supes.  Keep in mind that this is pre-death of superman superman... superman's gotten much, MUCH stronger since.
> 
> *Superman's Strength*: 800,000 tons without strain.  He can carry more but it would leave him exhasted.
> 
> *Superman's Durability*: Survived 40 megaton thermalnuclear explosion






			
				MarvelDirectory.com AND [url said:
			
		

> http://www.hulklibrary.com/][/url]
> I'm not sure on how official these sites are but seems pretty accurate.  The webmaster probably knows more about hulk than most of us, though.
> 
> 
> ...




Now, I know that the hulk has potentially unlimited strength and higher regeneration, but compare their base forms.  The gap speaks for itself.  Aside from that, the superman we're using is already much much stronger than the one from pre-death (which is the one i'm using to compare).  


More official people:



			
				Wizard MAgazine said:
			
		

> Superman vs. Hulk: We actually saw this already in Marvel vs. DC #3, which saw Supes coming out on top. While the Hulk can stand toe-to-toe in strength, Big Blue's superspeed, flight and heat vision put him over the top.



taken from here:   


------------------------------------------------------


*FACT!!!!!!*The hulk been beaten physically or overpowered physically before by more than one person. (juggernaut, abomination (earlier on), thor with his hammer, ironman)

To say that the hulk *will* continue taking hits and *will* remain concious long enough to overpower superman is willful ignorance.


willful ignorance why? : *TOTALLY* refusing (which is what some of you guys are doing) to believe the *FACT* that the hulk can be knocked out or can be bested physically.


*_Take notice of how i am not denying that it is possible that superman can get knocked out by the hulk... __

Also take that after this point, there will be more conjectures and assumptions:


---------------------------------------------------------- 



*Possible plausible methods of beating the hulk:*

-Knock out
-Lobotomy with heat vision, resulting in hulk's transformaiton back into banner. (Hulk's skin CAN be penetrated and superman DOES have the knowledge to do this)
-Normal heat vision (which apparently hulk admitted can kill him when fighitng agaist gladiator)
-fly him into space (which apparently hulk admitted can kill him when fighitng agaist gladiator)
-toss him into the sun (which hulk cannot survive)
-Drown him in the ocean
-Create a vacuum and suck up all the air out of hulk's breath until he passes out.  The hulk might be able to hold his breath but if superman sucks all the air out he'll have no air to 'hold'.


*Possible plausible methods of beating the superman:*
-Knock out with his fists.

Again, advantage enormously in superman's favor.



----------------------------------------------------------

lets look at the counters for each of the plausible methods of winning:


*Possible plausible methods of beating the hulk:*

-Knock out. *Superman might not be strong enough to knock him out*
-Lobotomy with heat vision, resulting in hulk's transformaiton back into banner. (Hulk's skin CAN be penetrated and superman DOES have the knowledge to do this) *you tell me*
-Normal heat vision (which apparently hulk admitted can kill him when fighitng agaist gladiator) *Hulk might be able to repeat what he did to gladiator, IF superman's heat vision is weaker (it can get as hot as the fucking sun) and IF he's smart enough.  Keep in mind that it was the intelligent Professor hulk that figured it out.*
-fly him into space (which apparently hulk admitted can kill him when fighitng agaist gladiator)*hulk can try to wrestle out of hte air*
-toss him into the sun (which hulk cannot survive)*no clue what hulk can do if he's flying towards the sun at hypersonic speed*
-Drown him in the ocean*hulk can try to swim out while superman (still moving at hypersonic speed with perfect mobility in water) tries to keep him down) *
-Create a vacuum and suck up all the air out of hulk's breath until he passes out.  The hulk might be able to hold his breath but if superman sucks all the air out he'll have no air to 'hold'.*No clue what hulk could do.*



*Possible plausible methods of beating the superman:*
-Knock out with his fists.*become intangible, or knock him out first.*


--------------------------------------------------------


One thing scorpio (thank you) showed was superman reactively becoming intangible to doomsday's fists.  If used on the hulk, it could effectively mean that the hulk *can not* connect his fists to superman.  That would mean that the ONLY way for him to beat superman would be taken away from him.

Unknownamadex (sp? sorry) said that superman 'might' get tired from that.  Most likely no.  Superman flies across space at near light speed and has travelled the world in superspeed for long periods of times.  Moving quickly enough to become intangible to occasionally dodge a punch for a second would not tire him out-- at least not significantly.


------------------------------------------------------------


I admit that it's still not clear-cut that superman *will* win or *will* lose since the two have never really fought it out canonically ( new word).

But when you compare all the tools at their disposal, you see how much variety supes has compared to hulk's limited options, and it's just.... logical to choose superman. :S  Totally logical..._


----------



## unknowndanex (Feb 4, 2006)

ok about the speed thing, flying at light speed to a planet is different from vibrating your molecules.  number 2 yall are saying vibrating as if he will vibrate the whole fight, which would tire him out.  if he does it for a second, then whats the point?

now for the powers and abilities, based on what u put all u know is superman.  marveldirectory has about the oldest profile of Hulk there is.  here is a better list of Hulk's powers:

Invulnerability increasing with rage
Strength in *EXCESS of 100 tons that increases EXPONENTIALLY with rage.
Regeneration that increases with rage
Held 150 BILLION TONS and wasn't that angry.

Increases in those areas also when he's angry, in potentially harmful (while struggling to lift something), and life-threatning situations.  Invunerable enough to take temperatures in EXCESS of 3000 degress F and survive vacuums of space unharmed.

Hulk has also changed since the last time your marvel directory profile made an update, which has been too many years ago.  When Banner and the Unleashed Hulk were remerged, Banner's influence moderated the Hulk somewhat, making him a more level-headed version of the normal Hulk.

And of course you are obviously going online looking for all the Hulk info you can get, because Hulk has survived too many nuclear missles and nuclear level explosions.



look what is said, the explosion just made him stronger fueling his anger more



then you go off of wizards Top 10 which was totally dismissed back in other threads.  it is obvious u know nothing of the hulk short of what you find on an internet site, you should really go read a comic book about hulk.  

then you say superman can't be beaten with anything but his fist, yet 
Doomsday killed him
Before toning Darkseid down he kicked his ass
Mongul kicked his ass
Solomon Grundy had him beat and even superman said it himself which is why he flew Grundy to another planet.

then you go off of what Wizard says and if you look at their reason, all they used was the cross-over which we don't use as well.  its called FAN VOTES.

Hulk has fought many people who have variety and he has won, so thats not a legitimate reason to say superman would win.

now of course Hulk lost to Juggernaut whose strength is immeasurable but heres the difference between this and the other fights you have Hulk losing.

Thor has gotten his ass kicked by Juggernaut too many times to count with and without the hammer.  
The only reason Abomination beat Hulk was because Marvel figures they have to have a plot.  But Hulk has beaten the cow shit out of Abomination too many times to count as well.
This is Abomination at twice his strength powered up by the Galaxy Masters.





But when you look at Juggernaut, Hulk has never really beaten Juggs.  Why?  cause Juggs is invulnerable to all physical injury, Superman wouldn't beat Juggs either really.  So theres no point of bringing that up.

DROWN HULK IN THE OCEAN?????????
fighting and talking underwater




explanation of how he breathes underwater


talking in empty space




now here's what you can do lucky, and don't think i'm being mean.

go buy a Hulk comic book, maybe a lot.  read them and get information for yourself.  check the date if you go back on the internet and look for a hulk profile.  learn about both characters before you make your decision please, it would save someone from typing too much like i'm doing right now.

oh yeah and he's no longer psychologically instable and he resist telepaths all the time as well.

Now lets back track through methods of winning.

Possible plausible methods of beating the hulk:




			-Knock out. Superman might not be strong enough to knock him out
-Lobotomy with heat vision, resulting in hulk's transformaiton back into banner. (Hulk's skin CAN be penetrated and superman DOES have the knowledge to do this) you tell me
-Normal heat vision (which apparently hulk admitted can kill him when fighitng agaist gladiator) Hulk might be able to repeat what he did to gladiator, IF superman's heat vision is weaker (it can get as hot as the fucking sun) and IF he's smart enough. Keep in mind that it was the intelligent Professor hulk that figured it out.
-fly him into space (which apparently hulk admitted can kill him when fighitng agaist gladiator)hulk can try to wrestle out of hte air
-toss him into the sun (which hulk cannot survive)no clue what hulk can do if he's flying towards the sun at hypersonic speed
-Drown him in the oceanhulk can try to swim out while superman (still moving at hypersonic speed with perfect mobility in water) tries to keep him down)
-Create a vacuum and suck up all the air out of hulk's breath until he passes out. The hulk might be able to hold his breath but if superman sucks all the air out he'll have no air to 'hold'.No clue what hulk could do.
		
Click to expand...


already showed that Hulk could heal from brain damage in pics while back.  no point of bringin up what heat vision does to Professor Hulk (toned down Hulk).  flying him to space would be a bad idea, considering he dealt a good amount of damage while in space and was talking.  can't drown the guy in the ocean who can breathe underwater.  vacuum won't really work considering the guy is talking in space.  and storm already tried sucking up his air.

KO or taking Hulk to the Sun is the only means of Supes winning.




			Possible plausible methods of beating the superman:
-Knock out with his fists.become intangible, or knock him out first.
		
Click to expand...

or just do what Doomsday, Darkseid, Mongul, and Solomon Grundy did.........just kick his ass.  kill him or knock him out.

now Superman can KO Hulk, but Hulk stands a better chance of getting a KO on Superman.

Now keep that in mind, i hope you have learned more about the Hulk now.*


----------



## Bullet (Feb 4, 2006)

lucky said:
			
		

> Recap time!!!!  This is based on the assumption that they're meeting in a fight and going straight for the win.  We're using current superman and current hulk (savage one i guess).
> 
> 
> *Empirical facts*:
> ...


_

Nice post! 

Superman wins with reasons stated in this post._


----------



## unknowndanex (Feb 4, 2006)

your DC bias is totally hilarious

i just proved about everything he said wrong.


----------



## zuhair (Feb 4, 2006)

superman would win for sure..hohoho..superb


----------



## Scorpio3.14 (Feb 4, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> ok about the speed thing, flying at light speed to a planet is different from vibrating your molecules.  number 2 yall are saying vibrating as if he will vibrate the whole fight, which would tire him out.  if he does it for a second, then whats the point?



He only needs to vibrate at the exact second Hulk trys to punch him and then become solid after the punch goes through. Another interesting fact, Superman can vibrate himself invisible aswell. Hows the Hulk going to hit what he cant see?



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> Held *150 BILLION TONS* and wasn't that angry.



If you want to use the extreme examples, Superman has pulled atleast 1/3 of the moon's mass (thats waaaaaay over 150 billion tons BTW). Also, you keep bringing up that "wasnt that angry" thing but you yourself said that his strength increases when he is strugglign to lift something and in life-threating danger. Wouldnt being crushed by a mountain qualify for that? (BTW Superman has picked up mountains before.)



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> Invunerable enough to take temperatures in *EXCESS* of 3000 degress F



Hulk has twice said he almost died from high powered laser beam attacks. The one time against Gladiator in which he specifically said he would die if he didnt act quickly and then another time against Bi-Beast in Incredible Hulk v2 #216 in which it was stated that Hulk would have died if he wasnt saved quickly. Superman's heat vision is probably atleast as powerful as Gladiator's and Im sure its many times more powerful then lasers in some lab that Bi-Beats used. Plus Trauma has KOed and almost Killed the Hulk with a laser attack.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> and survive vacuums of space unharmed.



Ever hear of a retcon? Authors change things about characters over time, back in the 70's and 80's comics were really rediculus with the things they did (PC Supes anyone?) and Hulk was not exceptiong to this. He was somehow able to breath and talk in space for whatever unexplained reason. However, in recent years Hulk has stated a number of times that he can not survive in space unaided (Gladiator fight being one). Maybe I missed something but has Hulk recently been able to breath in space in any comic? 



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> already showed that Hulk could heal from brain damage in pics while back.



1. Brain damage =/= lobodomy. If Supes wanted to he could turn Hulks brain to soup or cut it into hundreds of pieces, just a little bit more severe then brain damage dont you think? 2. Hulk was unconsious in that picture and he was healing slowly. If this is the case cant Superman just throw Hulk in the sun or something while hes unconsious healing from the lobodomy if he can heal that is? 



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> no point of bringin up what heat vision does to Professor Hulk (toned down Hulk).



Merged Hulk (later retconed, weakened, and re-named Professor Hulk) has the same Healing factor as Savage Hulk at base levels, its only when Savage Hulk gets really really pissed that his healing factor exceeds Merged Hulk. Assumeing Superman uses this option before that point you cant just write off the Gladiator heat vision thing.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> flying him to space would be a bad idea, considering he dealt a good amount of damage while in space and was talking.



Once Hulk gets to space the fight is over, Superman has won. Even if Hulk can breath in space (which I dont think he can, he has said he cant) Hulk cant fly and is at the total mercy of Superman. He just needs to flick Hulk in the general direction of the Sun and its over.


----------



## unknowndanex (Feb 4, 2006)

*He only needs to vibrate at the exact second Hulk trys to punch him and then become solid after the punch goes through. Another interesting fact, Superman can vibrate himself invisible aswell. Hows the Hulk going to hit what he cant see?*

considering Hulk would continously hit and can do that for days and weeks, that wouldn't really prove to much in the fight and superman would tire.  if he is vibrating everytime hulk throws a punch and hulk keeps throwin punches then yes he is vibrating the whole fight.  

*If you want to use the extreme examples, Superman has pulled atleast 1/3 of the moon's mass (thats waaaaaay over 150 billion tons BTW). Also, you keep bringing up that "wasnt that angry" thing but you yourself said that his strength increases when he is strugglign to lift something and in life-threating danger. Wouldnt being crushed by a mountain qualify for that? (BTW Superman has picked up mountains before.)*

hulk could do it too if he could fly.  and yes he increases when he struggles to lift something, and that was actually proving my point so i don't see what was the purpose of that statement.  thats why i said what i said about 150 bil tons.

*Hulk has twice said he almost died from high powered laser beam attacks. The one time against Gladiator in which he specifically said he would die if he didnt act quickly and then another time against Bi-Beast in Incredible Hulk v2 #216 in which it was stated that Hulk would have died if he wasnt saved quickly. Superman's heat vision is probably atleast as powerful as Gladiator's and Im sure its many times more powerful then lasers in some lab that Bi-Beats used. Plus Trauma has KOed and almost Killed the Hulk with a laser attack.*

you bring that up, then bring up retcon.  so i guess the good things about hulk should be erased and things like lasers defeating him even though he stands up to nuclear attacks should be taken more seriously.  like i've stated on several ocassions, in Marvel i wouldn't be surprised if Captain America beat Hulk so seeing lower level people beat him after he's beaten the likes of Thor, IronMan, Abomination, Gladiator, Hyperion, etc etc etc., i don't worry too much about the plothole losses he takes.

case and point, here's disentegrating lasers that make trauma's lasers look like shit being knocked around by hulk.  kills namor in one hit.




*1. Brain damage =/= lobodomy. If Supes wanted to he could turn Hulks brain to soup or cut it into hundreds of pieces, just a little bit more severe then brain damage dont you think? 2. Hulk was unconsious in that picture and he was healing slowly. If this is the case cant Superman just throw Hulk in the sun or something while hes unconsious healing from the lobodomy if he can heal that is?*

honestly, its not gonna work, you're referring to hulk in flux which is why his regeneration was slow.  and of course supes can throw him the sun, thats what i said so many times.  but thats the only thing he can do to win.

*Merged Hulk (later retconed, weakened, and re-named Professor Hulk) has the same Healing factor as Savage Hulk at base levels, its only when Savage Hulk gets really really pissed that his healing factor exceeds Merged Hulk. Assumeing Superman uses this option before that point you cant just write off the Gladiator heat vision thing.*

actually the regeneration process is faster or slower depending on base levels because of the difference in adrenaline he produces and speed at which it is going.  that was just a false statement.  i don't write off gladiator i just say it would have affected the normal hulk differently, which is true.

*Once Hulk gets to space the fight is over, Superman has won. Even if Hulk can breath in space (which I dont think he can, he has said he cant) Hulk cant fly and is at the total mercy of Superman. He just needs to flick Hulk in the general direction of the Sun and its over.*

responded basically to that already, but then thats not really a fight.  thats a cop out like he copped out on Solomon.  so i guess its in superman's character to bitch out a fight when he's gettin his ass kicked.


----------



## Scorpio3.14 (Feb 4, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> considering Hulk would continously hit and can do that for days and weeks, that wouldn't really prove to much in the fight and superman would tire.  if he is vibrating everytime hulk throws a punch and hulk keeps throwin punches then yes he is vibrating the whole fight.



You assume Superman is going to be doing nothing but Vibrateing the whole time. The vibration thing is more of a precautionary measure just incase Hulk somehow manages to get close enough to Superman to actually make physical contact with him. However, to be able to move and process information at near the speed of light this really shouldnt happen, but just in case he can always just beocme intangible.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> hulk could do it too if he could fly.



Proof???



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> and yes he increases when he struggles to lift something, and that was actually proving my point so i don't see what was the purpose of that statement.  thats why i said what i said about 150 bil tons.



The purpose of that statement was to show how that whole "wasnt even that mad" crap you are throwing around is crap. He dosnt have to be mad to get the kinda strength boost he normally gets only when really pissed in a situation like that one.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> honestly, its not gonna work, you're referring to hulk in flux which is why his regeneration was slow.



Why is it not going to work? We dont know how regular Hulk would have fared in that situation, he definatly would have delt with it better/faster but HOW MUCH we dont know. Secondly, I repeat, brain damage =/= Lobodomy, entirely different scale when you consider what Superman can do to a brain.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> actually the regeneration process is faster or slower depending on base levels because of the difference in adrenaline he produces and speed at which it is going.  that was just a false statement.  i don't write off gladiator i just say it would have affected the normal hulk differently, which is true.



Again, at the time when Hulk fought Gladiator he was in a form called Merged Hulk. He had the strength and healing factor of Savage Hulk and the intelliegence of Bruce Banner. This was later retconed but that dosnt change the fact that a version of the Hulk with the healing factor of Savage Hulk said that Gladiator's heat vision would have killed him. 



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> responded basically to that already, but then thats not really a fight.  thats a cop out like he copped out on Solomon.  so i guess its in superman's character to bitch out a fight when he's gettin his ass kicked.



The sun thing is only one valid way for Superman to defeat Hulk. Superman uses his brain, hes not like Hulk and just trys to smash every opponent he comes up against. You call it bitching out, I call it fighting smart.


----------



## unknowndanex (Feb 4, 2006)

*You assume Superman is going to be doing nothing but Vibrateing the whole time. The vibration thing is more of a precautionary measure just incase Hulk somehow manages to get close enough to Superman to actually make physical contact with him. However, to be able to move and process information at near the speed of light this really shouldnt happen, but just in case he can always just beocme intangible.
*

i wasn't assuming, i was actually tryin to see if thats what yall were saying.  i was just tryin to get my question which was "will he be vibrating every single punch" answered

*Proof???*

theres no proof he can there is none that he can't, but hulk's strength is greater than superman's so he would conceivably be able to do it.  but i don't think hulk will go from jumping to flying (like superman did).

*The purpose of that statement was to show how that whole "wasnt even that mad" crap you are throwing around is crap. He dosnt have to be mad to get the kinda strength boost he normally gets only when really pissed in a situation like that one.*

um actually, either lucky or bullet kept giving me crap about he can't get strong that quickly and the 150 billion tons thing was proof that he can.  i already know what i'm talkin bout, why don't u refer that to lucky or bullet.  pay attention to the thread please before jumping on me for nothing.

*Why is it not going to work? We dont know how regular Hulk would have fared in that situation, he definatly would have delt with it better/faster but HOW MUCH we dont know. Secondly, I repeat, brain damage =/= Lobodomy, entirely different scale when you consider what Superman can do to a brain.*

why will it work?  hulk is not gonna stand there and let it happen, so that option as far as i'm concerned is something i won't really worry bout.
*
Again, at the time when Hulk fought Gladiator he was in a form called Merged Hulk. He had the strength and healing factor of Savage Hulk and the intelliegence of Bruce Banner. This was later retconed but that dosnt change the fact that a version of the Hulk with the healing factor of Savage Hulk said that Gladiator's heat vision would have killed him.*

lol, now u sound like a definition from an internet site.  but seriously merged hulk's healing factor isn't on Savage's level.  he has a much lesser degree of anger that savage had, he couldn't tap into rage enhancements like savage hulk could either.  meaning he couldn't boost his regeneration and durability like savage hulk or normal hulk could.  thats fact.  there's no point of questioning me on hulk facts, cause i'm solid on them.


*The sun thing is only one valid way for Superman to defeat Hulk. Superman uses his brain, hes not like Hulk and just trys to smash every opponent he comes up against. You call it bitching out, I call it fighting smart.*

yeah this is what i'll compare that to in bitching level.......

i'm whuppin someones ass, and then once he figures out he got his ass kicked he gets a gun and shoots me.  thats basically what superman is doing if thats what he has to resort to because he gettin his ass kicked.

and the person who shot me will say he was bein smart.

and as i can see, its obvious you've given up on superman even fighting the hulk, talkin bout the sun and lobotomy.


----------



## Bullet (Feb 5, 2006)

Scorpio3.14 said:
			
		

> He only needs to vibrate at the exact second Hulk trys to punch him and then become solid after the punch goes through. Another interesting fact, Superman can vibrate himself invisible aswell. Hows the Hulk going to hit what he cant see?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Agreed! 

Superman wins.


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## unknowndanex (Feb 5, 2006)

yeah, i see you no longer have a basis of argument.

Hulk Wins.


----------



## Bullet (Feb 5, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> yeah, i see you no longer have a basis of argument.
> 
> Hulk Wins.



Hulk only wins if Superman does nothing at all. I gave my arguement and even saw yours and others, I'm convinced that Superman whould win.

Superman wins!


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## unknowndanex (Feb 5, 2006)

well you're entitled to your opinion when it comes to saying Superman would win.

but saying Hulk only wins if superman does nothing is just plain stupid.  and shows that you clearly don't know much about hulk, and based on many post you have made have proven that point further.

like i said before, expand your horizon above DC.


----------



## Bullet (Feb 5, 2006)

> unknowndanex said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## unknowndanex (Feb 5, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> > Thankyou!
> >
> >
> >
> ...


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## Bullet (Feb 5, 2006)

> it could show you know a lot about Hulk if you made any statements like you did. but you didn't.



I know alot about Hulk, just because I don't think Hulk whould beat Superman doesn't mean that I don't.



> Hulk has faced people with a variety of powers plenty of times and has won.



Superman has faced bricks like Hulk and won. 



> Hulk is also more level-headed now meaning he isn't a fighting idiot anymore like everyone seems to think.



Superman is still smarter and still have several advantages.



> read both comics, i don't read what i hate. i read DC before i read Marvel. but honestly i do prefer Marvel comics for storylines and the way they use they're characters. but i am enjoying Infinite Crisis.



I also read both, I'm enjoying Thor:Blood Oath right now along with other comics.


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## unknowndanex (Feb 5, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> I know alot about Hulk, just because I don't think Hulk whould beat Superman doesn't mean that I don't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i say you don't know much about hulk, like i said before, your posts about hulk which are normally things someone looks on the internet and finds shows mediocre knowledge of hulk.  superman hasn't faced anyone like hulk and won.  superman can be smart, but hulk has faced many that were smarter than him and won when he was just child-like creature.  he is much more dangerous now because he can actually think now.

reading Blood Oath doesn't mean much especially considering you thought that was the present state of Thor.  you didn't know Thor was in the sleep of the gods.  i'm not saying you have zero marvel comic books, i'm saying yours is severely limited.  ESPECIALLY THOR!!!!!!!!

Hulk wins, u forgot we are supposed to end on that note.


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## Bullet (Feb 5, 2006)

> i say you don't know much about hulk, like i said before, your posts about hulk which are normally things someone looks on the internet and finds shows mediocre knowledge of hulk.



And again I say that I know alot about Hulk, he just won't beat Superman.



> superman hasn't faced anyone like hulk and won.



Superman has faced countless bricks and won.




> superman can be smart, but hulk has faced many that were smarter than him and won when he was just child-like creature. he is much more dangerous now because he can actually think now.



And Superman has fought against people who was just as smart and smarter than him and won.




> reading Blood Oath doesn't mean much especially considering you thought that was the present state of Thor.



Miner mistake, no big deal.



> you didn't know Thor was in the sleep of the gods. i'm not saying you have zero marvel comic books, i'm saying yours is severely limited. ESPECIALLY THOR!!!!!!!!



I have plenty of Thor books and enough to know alot about him.




> Hulk wins, u forgot we are supposed to end on that note.



Hulk loses, the match is onesided.


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## unknowndanex (Feb 5, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> And again I say that I know alot about Hulk, he just won't beat Superman.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




superman facing bricks have nothing to do with hulk since he's not a brick.  superman has also faced bricks and lost as well.

sure sure, with the Thor

match isn't onesided, thats just a bogus claim.

hulk wouldn't win 100 percent of the time, but the first fight would definitely go to the Hulk.  thats based on superman's history with people of that caliber.


----------



## Bullet (Feb 5, 2006)

> superman facing bricks have nothing to do with hulk since he's not a brick. superman has also faced bricks and lost as well.



Superman has never lost to a brick going all out (he's normally holding back), especailly in the last few years. It does have something to do with Hulk, since he's a brick too.



> sure sure, with the Thor



What about Thor?



> match isn't onesided, thats just a bogus claim.



It is onesided. Superman has several ways to take down Hulk, while Hulk only has one (which is brute force).



> hulk wouldn't win 100 percent of the time, but the first fight would definitely go to the Hulk.



I don't think so. Superman has been written to fight in smart and use his abilities in the right plenty of times, he has just as much of a good chance of winning the first confrontation.



> thats based on superman's history with people of that caliber.



Like who? He hasn't lost recently going all out.


----------



## unknowndanex (Feb 5, 2006)

recently he's been facing toned down opponents that beat him down

bricks he lost too
Soloman Grundy 
Mongul
Doomsday

nothing about Thor, i was just saying sure sure about that.

a lot of people have ways of taking down the hulk, and they seem to still lose.  it will happen with superman as well.

and if you think of anyone superman has ever lost to, it will normally be someone like doomsday and grundy.

Hulk faces people with variety of powers all the time, he faces people with speed all the time.  Hulk can win this fight.


----------



## Bullet (Feb 6, 2006)

> unknowndanex said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## unknowndanex (Feb 6, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> > None of them on that list beat Superman. Mongul has been beaten three times by Superman and hasn't won since, Soloman Grundy has never beaten Superman and was recently KOed by Supergirl, and DD and Superman hasn't fought yet recently.
> >
> >
> >
> ...


----------



## Bullet (Feb 7, 2006)

> Hulk has never had a problem tagging Speedsters like Super Sabre, Quicksilver, The Silver Surfer, The Jack of Hearts, and so on. We even showed you a pic of him popping Quicksilver like it was nothing (WE ALL KNOW THAT HE IS NOT FAST AS SUPERMAN) but that was sound speed right there, and according to you he conceivably can't even hit that. Super Sabre was nothing but a speedster, he had no choice but to use speed and lost. The man could snap his fingers and create a sonic boom.



None of them fight fast like Supes, if so prove it? Again Sonic Booms doesn't work on Superman.



> Superman had to fly Solomon Grundy to another planet because he couldn't beat him and stated himself that Grundy was much more powerful than him. Are you only around for the good of superman and go on vacation when he loses?



When was this? What issue? Was this recently? Was Superman holding back? Because Grundy was KOed recently with one punch from Supergirl.










> The only reason Supes hasn't lost in awhile is because like i said they toned down characters to the fullest.



The only character that was decreased in power was Darksied, not every foe Superman comes across. Unless you think every villian Superman beats was decreased in power.



> Darkseid kicked Supes tail on too many ocassions before he was toned down.



Name them? anyways Supes is kicking his butt now!



> Speed alone can't beat the Hulk (i know he has more than speed) but most of his varieties will not work on the Hulk.



1. Superman is way faster than Hulk like I said, Hulk will never touch Supes once he starts using his speed, combine that with planet destroying punches, Hulk won't even win in just a physical battle.

2. Heat Vision whould kill Hulk, if Superman is bloodlusted.He could fry Hulks brain, Burn him to death (like Glads was doing when he was fighting Hulk, Hulk even stated himself that it was killing him) by engulfing Hulk in Heat Vision, or blind Hulk by burning his eyes then speedbiltzing.

3. Superman can suck all of the air out of the Hulk with his speed, since Hulk can't fly and isn't fast enough to catch Supes, he's at a disadvantge.

4. Freeze Hulk and then use any of the methods above.

Take him into the air, speedbiltzing Hulk from all types of angles with lots of punches, Heat Vision, and Icebreath/beam.



> It will come down to a fight, which much to your disbelief Superman participate in.



With Superman coming out on top.


----------



## unknowndanex (Feb 7, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> None of them fight fast like Supes, if so prove it? Again Sonic Booms doesn't work on Superman.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i wasn't saying he ran at sound, thats an understatement, i said he can snap his fingers and make a sonic boom.  do u even know who silver sabre is?  and please don't lie again.

dude, everyone knows Grundy has been downgraded, even batman has beaten him recently.  u must be one of those brand new fans.

oh and lets see, Supes getting fucked by Darkseid before being toned down.


allows Superman to live
Complaints Department

pimps Superman with 3 punches
Complaints Department

Complaints Department


beat Superman and others with just a hologram
Link removed

what the un-toned down OE does
Link removed

This is from Cosmic Odyssey, i guess you don't have this where Darkseid treats Superman like nothing
Link removed

Link removed

Superman never really got a good victory over Darkseid til Apokolips Now when he beat his eyes shut.  But of course by that time Darkseid and the OE were toned down and i'm not the only one who has stated Darkseid is toned down.

Grundy has different carnations and the one that is out is very weak.  But his strongest carnation was better than Superman.

don't worry Mongul and Doomsday weren't toned down.  

*1. Superman is way faster than Hulk like I said, Hulk will never touch Supes once he starts using his speed, combine that with planet destroying punches, Hulk won't even win in just a physical battle.

2. Heat Vision whould kill Hulk, if Superman is bloodlusted.He could fry Hulks brain, Burn him to death (like Glads was doing when he was Hulk stated him self that it was kill him) by engulfing Hulk in Heat Vision, or blind Hulk by burning his eyes then speedbiltzing.

3. Superman can suck all of the air out of the Hulk with his speed, since Hulk can't fly and isn't fast enough to catch Supes, he's at a disadvantge.

4. Freeze Hulk and then use any of the methods above.

Take him into the air, speedbiltzing Hulk from all types of angles with lots of punches, Heat Vision, and Icebreath/beam.*

1. Hulk doesn't have problems with speedsters really, but your bias will not bring you to believe this.  and make excuses.  what does Quicksilver fight with other than speed?  what does sabre fight with other than speed?  And Hulk smacked speed demon around who goes at sound on one leg.

2.  i'm not gonna explain Prof. Hulk again cause you're not gonna listen.  i'll just take into consideration that anything other than DC is your weak point.  we have time and time again talked about heat vision, and now its gotten to the point where only you would bring it up.

3.  been there and done that and didn't work.

4.  Bruce Banner was frozen and he still turned into the Hulk and got out of it, he ain't freezing the Hulk.  Just about everything you state is a been there done that and didn't work on the Hulk.

Superman is gonna fight the Hulk and lose.  Superman can't beat a non-toned down Hulk in a fight.  You're talking on pure fanboyism, Superman's history speaks for itself.  against big name villains on his first fight, superman loses in a fist fight.  well too many times against Darkseid, ass kicked by Grundy, double KO with Doomsday, and ass kicked by Mongul.

Hulk wins this fight.


----------



## Bullet (Feb 7, 2006)

i





> wasn't saying he ran at sound, thats an understatement, i said he can snap his fingers and make a sonic boom. do u even know who silver sabre is? and please don't lie again.



What do lie about?  It doesn't matter, sonicbooms is non-effective against Supes.



> dude, everyone knows Grundy has been downgraded, even batman has beaten him recently. u must be one of those brand new fans.



So now Grundy is being degraded because he was beaten?



> oh and lets see, Supes getting fucked by Darkseid before being toned down.



None of those pics actually show Darksied beating Superman. 



> Superman never really got a good victory over Darkseid til Apokolips Now when he beat his eyes shut. But of course by that time Darkseid and the OE were toned down and i'm not the only one who has stated Darkseid is toned down.



Look above. 




> 1. Hulk doesn't have problems with speedsters really, but your bias will not bring you to believe this. and make excuses. what does Quicksilver fight with other than speed? what does sabre fight with other than speed? And Hulk smacked speed demon around who goes at sound on one leg.



Hulk does have probelms with speed (alot) and you can't prove that he doesn't.

1. Superman is way faster than Hulk like I said, Hulk will never touch Supes once he starts using his speed, combine that with planet destroying punches, Hulk won't even win in just a physical battle.



> 2. i'm not gonna explain Prof. Hulk again cause you're not gonna listen. i'll just take into consideration that anything other than DC is your weak point. we have time and time again talked about heat vision, and now its gotten to the point where only you would bring it up.



You can't explain it that's why. Atleast show the whole thing what really happen or another scan of somthing like that. If you can't!

2. Heat Vision whould kill Hulk, if Superman is bloodlusted.He could fry Hulks brain, Burn him to death (like Glads was doing when he was Hulk stated him self that it was kill him) by engulfing Hulk in Heat Vision, or blind Hulk by burning his eyes then speedbiltzing.



> 3. been there and done that and didn't work.



You never prove this either. 

3. Superman can suck all of the air out of the Hulk with his speed, since Hulk can't fly and isn't fast enough to catch Supes, he's at a disadvantge.



> 4. Bruce Banner was frozen and he still turned into the Hulk and got out of it, he ain't freezing the Hulk. Just about everything you state is a been there done that and didn't work on the Hulk.



First prove this, I don't remeber Hulk being immune to being frozen.

4. Freeze Hulk and then use any of the methods above.



> Superman is gonna fight the Hulk and lose. Superman can't beat a non-toned down Hulk in a fight. You're talking on pure fanboyism, Superman's history speaks for itself. against big name villains on his first fight, superman loses in a fist fight. well too many times against Darkseid, ass kicked by Grundy, double KO with Doomsday, and ass kicked by Mongul.



Nothing but lame insults, extreme hate for supes and bitterness right in this little paragraph.

Again Supes can take him into the air, speedbiltzing Hulk from all types of angles with lots of punches, Heat Vision, and Icebreath/beam.



> Hulk wins this fight.



Supes wins, with reasons stated above!


----------



## Scorpio3.14 (Feb 7, 2006)

First off, I _believe_ the "Superman flying Grundy off world because he was to strong" thing happened Pre-Crisis. PC Grundy in his prime was a freaking unstoppable monster, think the mindless hulk mixed with Juggernaut with strength greater then PC superman lol 




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> 1. Hulk doesn't have problems with speedsters really, but your bias will not bring you to believe this.  and make excuses.  what does Quicksilver fight with other than speed?  what does sabre fight with other than speed?  And Hulk smacked speed demon around who goes at sound on one leg.



The thing is, Superman is waaaaaay faster then any of those guys. Speed demon is on Quicksilver's level and Super Sabre  can only max about mach 1-2.

Your idea that if Hulk can deal with these marvel speedsters then he should be able to deal with Superman is a fallacy. Quicksilver's and Speed Demon's top speeds are _around_ mach ten being generous. The speed of light is ~9,000 times greater then mach 10. Your argument is like saying "Well Barry Bonds can easily hit a baseball going 100 miles per hour so he should be able to hit a ball going 900,000 miles per hour." Sorry, it just dont work.


----------



## unknowndanex (Feb 7, 2006)

For Bullet, is useless cause i posted picks of storm tryin to suck the air out of hulk, you obviously don't pay attention to anything cause your being bias won't let you.  I showed too many types of radiation being used on Hulk by Monica (used to be Captain Marvel) and none of them working.  the guy took Thor's lightning while he was in full warrior madness mode.  you keep talkin bout freezing, Grey Hulk was turned into stone and broken, and still came back.  you know nothing when it comes to hulk so just stop.  people have tried to take hulk in the air and it didn't work.  Go find about Prof. Hulk yourself because i'm really tired of your Marvel ignorance.

Thank you Scorpio for stating along with me that Grundy was significantly depowered something Bullet refuses to accept.  I know that the guys are way faster than Hulk, but I was using those as examples that Hulk can deal with speed.  You were a little too generous to Quicksilver, but yeah i'll put Speed Demon at Mach 10.  

My argument is not that since he can handle them, he can handle superman.  my point is, hulk can and has adapted to speed on too many ocassions.  and superman would be no different.  Hulk also senses presences as well, so superman using all that speed will not be the end all be all of the fight, because hulk does have fast reflexes.  Shit, Jack of Hearts tried to speedblitz him and just bounced off hulk.  Quasar also used his speed against the Hulk and got smacked.

Superman's speed will not win this fight, Warrior Madness Thor's lightning is way more dangerous than Gladiator's heat vision, so please no more with the Gladiator vs Prof Hulk crap as a frame of reference.

Hulk would win the fight.


----------



## Bullet (Feb 8, 2006)

> For Bullet, is useless cause i posted picks of storm tryin to suck the air out of hulk, you obviously don't pay attention to anything cause your being bias won't let you.



Which proves nothing. It only proved that sucking the air out of Hulk will work, and Strom might have succeeded if she hadn't got hit form a rock. Superman isn't going even move from somthing like that. Hulk also can't breath in water, which gave Namor plenty of advantages when they fought, Superman could take Hulk into the water, and use the same tactics as Namor, only better since he's faster.



> I showed too many types of radiation being used on Hulk by Monica (used to be Captain Marvel) and none of them working.



Now the one from Gladiator (who was killing him).



> the guy took Thor's lightning while he was in full warrior madness mode.



50,000 bolts don't come close to Superman's or Glads Heat Vision.



> you keep talkin bout freezing, Grey Hulk was turned into stone and broken, and still came back.



But it did hold for a while, Hulk was never shown not to be to frozen, it'll work on him.




> you know nothing when it comes to hulk so just stop.



Or that I do know somthing about Hulk, but you can't except it.



> people have tried to take hulk in the air and it didn't work.



Glads took Hulk in the air by his waste, Superman is going to do that and will be in space in no time.



> Go find about Prof. Hulk yourself because i'm really tired of your Marvel ignorance.



Or you could post the rest of what happened.



> Thank you Scorpio for stating along with me that Grundy was significantly depowered something Bullet refuses to accept.



He said PCs though, this is Post crisis Supes.



> I know that the guys are way faster than Hulk, but I was using those as examples that Hulk can deal with speed.



But you havn't even proven that Hulk can match Supes in speed, heck Hulk can't even catch Spiderman.



> My argument is not that since he can handle them, he can handle superman. my point is, hulk can and has adapted to speed on too many ocassions. and superman would be no different.



Like who? Who has Hulk ever kepted up with on Superman's level of speed when being speedbiltz?



> Hulk also senses presences as well, so superman using all that speed will not be the end all be all of the fight, because hulk does have fast reflexes.



Funny how that never seems to work in battle against Spiderman



> Shit, Jack of Hearts tried to speedblitz him and just bounced off hulk. Quasar also used his speed against the Hulk and got smacked.



None of them fight fast or have the reaction speeds on Superman's level. Show me scans of this? 



> Superman's speed will not win this fight,



It will, but Supes has other way's to win this fight too.



> Warrior Madness Thor's lightning is way more dangerous than Gladiator's heat vision,



I think Glads Heat Vision is greater than Warrior Madness Thor's lighting.



> so please no more with the Gladiator vs Prof Hulk crap as a frame of reference.



You brung it up first, but failed to explain both.


----------



## Viciousness (Feb 8, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> But you havn't even proven that Hulk can match Supes in speed, heck Hulk can't even catch Spiderman.
> 
> Funny how that never seems to work in battle against Spiderman



Im short on time but since it seems like your memory is very faulty or youre just in denial again:


----------



## unknowndanex (Feb 8, 2006)

you put up a pick yourself of spiderman getting caught.  like i said in the Goku/Superman thread, you don't pay attention to your own stuff.  you really prove yourself wrong all the time.  

you know nothing on hulk and its apparent with everyone.

i'm not gonna continue much longer, cause all you do is forget everything else in the thread and repeat points already dismissed.  until u come with something new, i'll just respond if scorpio responds.  he's the only one with some since in this thread at this point.  and the sudden appearance of DrunkenYoshimaster.

your DC bias keeps you like this


----------



## lucky (Feb 9, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> ok about the speed thing, flying at light speed to a planet is different from vibrating your molecules.  number 2 yall are saying vibrating as if he will vibrate the whole fight, which would tire him out.  if he does it for a second, then whats the point?



Vibrating is just movement in multiple directions at a high speed.  Flying at lightspeed somewhere is moving at one directing at a high speed.  You're effectively saying that since he's going at more than one direction at a time, he'll tire himself out. 


I'm not saying he'll vibrate the entrei time either.  i'm saying he'll vibrate just when the hulk attacks him. You still haven't brought *ANYTHING* substantial to the table to show how the hulk can counter superman phasing through every one of his punches.  The only thing you say is that superman's gonna get tired, and even that argument isn't logically sound.




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> now for the powers and abilities, based on what u put all u know is superman.  marveldirectory has about the oldest profile of Hulk there is.  here is a better list of Hulk's powers:
> 
> Invulnerability increasing with rage
> Strength in *EXCESS of 100 tons that increases EXPONENTIALLY with rage.
> ...


*

Ok i said before i KNOW that when he gets angry, he gets exponentially stronger (150 billion > 75 tons or whichever), and he regenerates at a crazy rate.  Again, this is a straight up fight no mercy no holding back right?  What makes you so sure that in the nanosecond of the fight, where superman (if he's not holding back) will fly at the hulk full power at near light speed, the hulk will SUDDENLY become SOOOO angry that he physically reaches and exceeds superman's base level?  


In a no holds-barred fight, a fraction of a nanosecond after the fact that he's going to fight superman registers in his mind, superman's going for him.  I actually would really like to know of any time where the hulk becomes so angry so fast before he even has time to form a SINGLE THOUGHT.   




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		


			then you go off of wizards Top 10 which was totally dismissed back in other threads.  it is obvious u know nothing of the hulk short of what you find on an internet site, you should really go read a comic book about hulk.
		
Click to expand...


.... cuz we all know that the general public (us) know more about comics than Wizards. lol that sounds pretty bs. I'd like to read the threads where wizards top ten gets dismissed.  It's more official and canon than our ranting will ever be.  Quote me on that.


But if you wanna play the forums.narutofan threads > wizards game, then just look at the poll.  75% of us thinks the kryptonian will take it.  Should i take a page in your book and casually dismiss your opinion as a irrelevant minority?  Cuz I don't.    





			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		


			then you say superman can't be beaten with anything but his fist, yet 
Doomsday killed him
Before toning Darkseid down he kicked his ass
Mongul kicked his ass
Solomon Grundy had him beat and even superman said it himself which is why he flew Grundy to another planet.

then you go off of what Wizard says and if you look at their reason, all they used was the cross-over which we don't use as well.  its called FAN VOTES.
		
Click to expand...


I never said that superman can't be beaten physically. I said that the hulk's ONLY option of beating superman is by his fists.  I've already stated a counter for hulk's fists. (vibrating) which you countered that superman will get tired (which there's absolutely no proof of).  

And like i said earlier, superman was so fucking weak when he fought mongul initially.  That's like me saying that ironman owned hulk when hulk was missing arms.  What's the point of bringing that up?


The marvel vs. DC was one of their reasons. superman beat thor in the JLA/avengers crossover but i still believe that thor would beat superman in a straight up fight.    



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		


			Hulk has fought many people who have variety and he has won, so thats not a legitimate reason to say superman would win.
		
Click to expand...


No, i said that because of variety, he has more OPTIONS of beating hulk than hulk has on beating him.  




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		


			now of course Hulk lost to Juggernaut whose strength is immeasurable but heres the difference between this and the other fights you have Hulk losing.

Thor has gotten his ass kicked by Juggernaut too many times to count with and without the hammer.  
The only reason Abomination beat Hulk was because Marvel figures they have to have a plot.  But Hulk has beaten the cow shit out of Abomination too many times to count as well.

But when you look at Juggernaut, Hulk has never really beaten Juggs.  Why?  cause Juggs is invulnerable to all physical injury, Superman wouldn't beat Juggs either really.  So theres no point of bringing that up.
		
Click to expand...


No.  You should read what i say more carefully.  The reason why i brought up those fights is to prove that it's POSSIBLE for the hulk to be beaten physically.  But you already cleared this point after by admitting that there's a chance that superman could KO the hulk so this point is now moot.*


----------



## lucky (Feb 9, 2006)

PART 2 (first message too long)





			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> Possible plausible methods of beating the hulk:
> 
> already showed that Hulk could heal from brain damage in pics while back.  no point of bringin up what heat vision does to Professor Hulk (toned down Hulk).  flying him to space would be a bad idea, considering he dealt a good amount of damage while in space and was talking.  can't drown the guy in the ocean who can breathe underwater.  vacuum won't really work considering the guy is talking in space.  and storm already tried sucking up his air.



Healing from brain damage by a destroyed frontal lobe is one thing.  Reverting back to banner (which WILL happen) once superman removes the part that gets him angry is something else altogether.  And yes, i'm aware that savage hulk heals much faster than prof hulk.

I read hulk issues... but i don't read all of them.

Even if hulk can survive in space, he's still at a major disadvantage on superman.  He'll be a large almost inert object floating at superman's mercy.  BTW, he can't talk in space.  He's mouthing everything but no sound's coming out.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> or just do what Doomsday, Darkseid, Mongul, and Solomon Grundy did.........just kick his ass.  kill him or knock him out.



you say that older versions of the hulk shouldn't be accounted (like hte one that got KO'd so why are you bringing in older and weaker versions of superman in this?  Darkseid is unfortunately a jobber now since he was so fucking cool but can any of those guys kick his ass anymore?  seriously.  Current supes is a world away from the weaker one you keep bringing up.

This is to every other time you bring them up.

Oh and darkseid (pre-jobber) is like a demi-cosmic or a cosmic god.  Don't compare him to hulk.  He'll walk all over the hulk.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> theres no proof he can there is none that he can't, but hulk's strength is greater than superman's so he would conceivably be able to do it.  but i don't think hulk will go from jumping to flying (like superman did).



No.  Hulk's strength' potential exponential growth is greater than superman's.  Like the hulk, there's been no show of any limits to superman's strength yet.




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> *Why is it not going to work? We dont know how regular Hulk would have fared in that situation, he definatly would have delt with it better/faster but HOW MUCH we dont know. Secondly, I repeat, brain damage =/= Lobodomy, entirely different scale when you consider what Superman can do to a brain.*
> 
> why will it work?  hulk is not gonna stand there and let it happen, so that option as far as i'm concerned is something i won't really worry bout.



It only takes a second.  Hulk might not stand there and let it happen but it doesn't mean that it can't happen.




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> Again, at the time when Hulk fought Gladiator he was in a form called Merged Hulk. He had the strength and healing factor of Savage Hulk and the intelliegence of Bruce Banner. This was later retconed but that dosnt change the fact that a version of the Hulk with the healing factor of Savage Hulk said that Gladiator's heat vision would have killed him.[/B]
> 
> lol, now u sound like a definition from an internet site.  but seriously merged hulk's healing factor isn't on Savage's level.  he has a much lesser degree of anger that savage had, he couldn't tap into rage enhancements like savage hulk could either.  meaning he couldn't boost his regeneration and durability like savage hulk or normal hulk could.  thats fact.  there's no point of questioning me on hulk facts, cause i'm solid on them.



What you're saying is fact, yes.  But all you're saying is that savage hulk's regen/durability/strength growth level is higher and consequently more resistant to heat vision.  Being more resistant *doesn't mean* that heat vision won't be lethal anymore.




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> *The sun thing is only one valid way for Superman to defeat Hulk. Superman uses his brain, hes not like Hulk and just trys to smash every opponent he comes up against. You call it bitching out, I call it fighting smart.*
> 
> yeah this is what i'll compare that to in bitching level.......
> 
> ...



.... How the hell is htat different from silver surfer beating superman by sucking out all his solar energy?  Magneto potentially beating superman by controlling his bio-electric aura?  This is supposed to be a no holds-barred straight for the win fight.  Where the hell did this *subjective* code of honor between *no holds-barred* fighters come from?  If Dr. Strange beats hulk by turning him into a frog or Silver surfer putting hulk into an adamantium box are those considered cop-outs?


Plus, lobotomy by superman = superman using his OWN power to DIRECTLY attack the hulk's PHYSICAL BODY (his brain.)  cop out how?




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> considering Hulk would continously hit and can do that for days and weeks, that wouldn't really prove to much in the fight and superman would tire.  if he is vibrating everytime hulk throws a punch and hulk keeps throwin punches then yes he is vibrating the whole fight.



yeah superman can also fight for days and weeks.  You need to realize that superspeedsters can operate in 'superspeed' time.  superman will be considered vibrating the whole fight once hulk learns to throw a thousand punches a second.




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> you bring that up, then bring up retcon.  so i guess the good things about hulk should be erased and things like lasers defeating him even though he stands up to nuclear attacks should be taken more seriously.  like i've stated on several ocassions, in Marvel i wouldn't be surprised if Captain America beat Hulk so seeing lower level people beat him after he's beaten the likes of Thor, IronMan, Abomination, Gladiator, Hyperion, etc etc etc., i don't worry too much about the plothole losses he takes.



kettle, pot, black, etc.




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> *1. Brain damage =/= lobodomy. If Supes wanted to he could turn Hulks brain to soup or cut it into hundreds of pieces, just a little bit more severe then brain damage dont you think? 2. Hulk was unconsious in that picture and he was healing slowly. If this is the case cant Superman just throw Hulk in the sun or something while hes unconsious healing from the lobodomy if he can heal that is?*
> 
> honestly, its not gonna work, you're referring to hulk in flux which is why his regeneration was slow.



Savage hulk's regeneration might be faster, but again there's no indication that his regeneration will reach a level where supes' heat vision won't be lethal anymore.  The way you write you give the impression that savage hulk will just shrug off heat vision where merged hulk nearly died from it.  




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> *Once Hulk gets to space the fight is over, Superman has won. Even if Hulk can breath in space (which I dont think he can, he has said he cant) Hulk cant fly and is at the total mercy of Superman. He just needs to flick Hulk in the general direction of the Sun and its over.*
> 
> responded basically to that already, but then thats not really a fight.  thats a cop out like he copped out on Solomon.  so i guess its in superman's character to bitch out a fight when he's gettin his ass kicked.



Well, the guy 'bitching' (still subjective) out would bring home the trophy, wouldn't he?


----------



## unknowndanex (Feb 9, 2006)

lucky said:
			
		

> Vibrating is just movement in multiple directions at a high speed.  Flying at lightspeed somewhere is moving at one directing at a high speed.  You're effectively saying that since he's going at more than one direction at a time, he'll tire himself out.
> 
> 
> I'm not saying he'll vibrate the entrei time either.  i'm saying he'll vibrate just when the hulk attacks him. You still haven't brought *ANYTHING* substantial to the table to show how the hulk can counter superman phasing through every one of his punches.  The only thing you say is that superman's gonna get tired, and even that argument isn't logically sound.
> ...



*Vibrating is just movement in multiple directions at a high speed.  Flying at lightspeed somewhere is moving at one directing at a high speed.  You're effectively saying that since he's going at more than one direction at a time, he'll tire himself out. *

ok, i brought that up in the Goku/Supes thread, and you along with others said that wasn't vibrating when i said Goku was doing it.  so i guess it depends on argument for you guys.  oh yeah, and if supes wants to vibrate all day, all hulk really has to do is keeping punching so he can get stronger, more durable, and regeneration skyrocket.  and then do a thunderclap to kill that noise, cause that would affect him.  It took out Hyperion and it'll at least hurt supes.

and hulk would actually figure out that superman isn't there sooner or later




*I'm not saying he'll vibrate the entrei time either.  i'm saying he'll vibrate just when the hulk attacks him. You still haven't brought ANYTHING substantial to the table to show how the hulk can counter superman phasing through every one of his punches.  The only thing you say is that superman's gonna get tired, and even that argument isn't logically sound.
*

thunderclap would do the trick, enough with that same ol argument

*Ok i said before i KNOW that when he gets angry, he gets exponentially stronger (150 billion > 75 tons or whichever), and he regenerates at a crazy rate.  Again, this is a straight up fight no mercy no holding back right?  What makes you so sure that in the nanosecond of the fight, where superman (if he's not holding back) will fly at the hulk full power at near light speed, the hulk will SUDDENLY become SOOOO angry that he physically reaches and exceeds superman's base level?  *

um, superman has a lot of options when he is not holding back which includes fighting which is something you guys seem to not want him to do.  the superman vs hulk fight wasn't canon, so supes doesn't know that his only option as is according to yall is to just fly at him near light speed and take him to space.  Jack O' Hearts flew at him near light speed and bounced off so whats your point.  and do you even know hulk's base strength, it is in EXCESS of 100 tons.  

*In a no holds-barred fight, a fraction of a nanosecond after the fact that he's going to fight superman registers in his mind, superman's going for him.  I actually would really like to know of any time where the hulk becomes so angry so fast before he even has time to form a SINGLE THOUGHT. * 

its funny that the only thing superman fans can ever bring up, is superman using superspeed, something hulk is apparantly used to to say he'll win.  u know what, hulk can sense his presence and his reflexes are top notch, hulk will smack the shit out of superman coming at him, how bout that.  or probably catch him.

*.... cuz we all know that the general public (us) know more about comics than Wizards. lol that sounds pretty bs. I'd like to read the threads where wizards top ten gets dismissed.  It's more official and canon than our ranting will ever be.  Quote me on that.


But if you wanna play the forums.narutofan threads > wizards game, then just look at the poll.  75% of us thinks the kryptonian will take it.  Should i take a page in your book and casually dismiss your opinion as a irrelevant minority?  Cuz I don't.    *

actually i don't discredit wizard, back in another thread i used wizard's top 10 and then everyone in the thread discredited it.  and i explained it to them the same way you're trying to explain to me.  bullet was in that thread to, but i can't remember which one.  could've been Flash/Goku, cause i think i was saying "if he's so great he should be number one in wizard instead of SS, or 2 instead of Thor, or 3 instead of Supes, etc".  so no i'm not against wizard at all, i'm actually refraining myself from bringing it up in the Thor/WW thread.  but i shouldn't need it, that thread is bout over now.

*And like i said earlier, superman was so fucking weak when he fought mongul initially.  That's like me saying that ironman owned hulk when hulk was missing arms.  What's the point of bringing that up?


The marvel vs. DC was one of their reasons. superman beat thor in the JLA/avengers crossover but i still believe that thor would beat superman in a straight up fight.    



No, i said that because of variety, he has more OPTIONS of beating hulk than hulk has on beating him.  *

and tell me how bout Doomsday, Grundy, and Lobo (first time they fought).  was he so fucking weak then?  i don't think too much about the JLA/Avengers crossover in which Thor used none of his skills at all, and i dont' think to much for the Marvel/DC crossover period because Wolverine beat Lobo alond with other stupid mishaps.  

a lot of people have more options of beating hulk than hulk has and they still lose.

*No.  You should read what i say more carefully.  The reason why i brought up those fights is to prove that it's POSSIBLE for the hulk to be beaten physically.  But you already cleared this point after by admitting that there's a chance that superman could KO the hulk so this point is now moot*

sure, i'm not gonna say superman is a weakling, but i think hulk stands a better chance of KOing Superman in a fight.  and i must be right since the only thing anyone can say about the fight is take him in the air into space and throw him in the sun.


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## Nybarius (Feb 9, 2006)

radish it's not poor writing that the cosmic cube and the IG are in the room, it's just an easter-egg.  I mean, why would the rebels have all that stuff in the first place?  What the hell could possibly have killed Silver Surfer, on earth?

If I were going for a no-prize, though, I'd say that a) the IG is worthless because of the Living Tribunal's decree and b) nobody knows how to use the cosmic cube, or else they know enough about them to know they turn sentient and so stay away from them (like the Skrull).


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## unknowndanex (Feb 9, 2006)

lucky said:
			
		

> PART 2 (first message too long)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*
Healing from brain damage by a destroyed frontal lobe is one thing.  Reverting back to banner (which WILL happen) once superman removes the part that gets him angry is something else altogether.  And yes, i'm aware that savage hulk heals much faster than prof hulk.

I read hulk issues... but i don't read all of them.
*

ok, superman can be smart, but he would not know where the exact spot at would be to hit.  and if superman does that, he will be in big time trouble, because he could just end up creating a mindless hulk.  there are too many factors that fall in, and superman would know this.  you don't make a decision to work on someone's brain outta nowhere, you have to think about it.

*Even if hulk can survive in space, he's still at a major disadvantage on superman.  He'll be a large almost inert object floating at superman's mercy.  BTW, he can't talk in space.  He's mouthing everything but no sound's coming out.



you say that older versions of the hulk shouldn't be accounted (like hte one that got KO'd so why are you bringing in older and weaker versions of superman in this?  Darkseid is unfortunately a jobber now since he was so fucking cool but can any of those guys kick his ass anymore?  seriously.  Current supes is a world away from the weaker one you keep bringing up.

This is to every other time you bring them up.

Oh and darkseid (pre-jobber) is like a demi-cosmic or a cosmic god.  Don't compare him to hulk.  He'll walk all over the hulk.*

talking in space has nothing to do with fighting, and hulk can maneuver in space, just not as good as superman.  i also bring those up just like u brought up earlier for yourself, that superman can lose to someone he has way more powers than.  he wasn't in the form he is now, but still had way more powers than grundy and lost.  he had way more powers than doomsday and lost. etc etc.  and darkseid wouldn't walk all over the hulk.

this is what thanos (who could kick darkseid's ass) thought of the hulk

Link removed

and being more resistant with a higher healing factor put together does mean heat vision won't be as lethat.  cause the two work together.  he healed from a skeletal frame in seconds, something Prof. Hulk would never be able to do.

*.... How the hell is htat different from silver surfer beating superman by sucking out all his solar energy?  Magneto potentially beating superman by controlling his bio-electric aura?  This is supposed to be a no holds-barred straight for the win fight.  Where the hell did this subjective code of honor between no holds-barred fighters come from?  If Dr. Strange beats hulk by turning him into a frog or Silver surfer putting hulk into an adamantium box are those considered cop-outs?


Plus, lobotomy by superman = superman using his OWN power to DIRECTLY attack the hulk's PHYSICAL BODY (his brain.)  cop out how?
*

well surfer wouldn't need to do that to beat superman, and actually i thought i called taking him to space and throwing him in the sun was a cop out.  i could be wrong, but i thought i referred to that.  and if hulk can come back from being turned to stone, then he'll come back from being a frog and an adamantium box.  Dr. Strange is using his powers to transform hulk, Surfer uses his power to transform the hulk, i use my power to hit someone.  now.......someone use their power to pull out a gun (other source), superman uses his power to throw someone in the sun (other source).  and if i referred to lobotomy as cop out (i don't think i did, but i could've) then i was actually referring to the fact that yall swear superman is such a great fighter, but whenever someone brings up superman in a thread yall pick anyother conceivable way for superman to do something other than fighting.  last time i check superman does fight when he's goin all out.  something yall neglect to believe.


*Savage hulk's regeneration might be faster, but again there's no indication that his regeneration will reach a level where supes' heat vision won't be lethal anymore.  The way you write you give the impression that savage hulk will just shrug off heat vision where merged hulk nearly died from it.  




Well, the guy 'bitching' (still subjective) out would bring home the trophy, wouldn't he?*

do not confuse merge hulk with professor hulk.

here we go

Prof Hulk:  held back his adrenaline flow and his anger at all times in fear that the Hulk persona would come back leading to a significantly lower healing factor than ALL the other hulks.  he wouldn't have survived a lot of what all the hulk's survive.

Savaga Hulk:  idiot, but one of the stronger and quicker healing ones.

Merged Hulk (current):  level-headed, thinks in battle now, is the strongest and has the highest regeneration and durability of all hulks.  well mindless was the strongest but that was cause his brain went into overdrive.

i would expect a superman fan to make that last statement.  but as i normally say, he most likely wouldn't do that, even if it was no-holds barred.  superman doesn't run away from a good fight, contrary to yall popular belief.

and when he doesn't, at the end of the day, banner would wonder what is this big trophy i have sitting in my room.


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## Bullet (Feb 9, 2006)

DrunkenYoshimaster said:
			
		

> Im short on time but since it seems like your memory is very faulty or youre just in denial again:




That scan just shows how slow Hulk really is, compared to Superman, Spiderman is not even in the same league when i comes to speed. 

Again Superman wins, rather you like or not.

Superman moves so fast that his body can go intangible or invisible, Hulk hasn't fought anyone with that level of speed.




Notice how the Superman isn't seen until he stops to talk to the alien. 

Superman could vibrate his body in visible then fire Hulk's brain.

Or how bout Supes use an orbital smash to take Hulk into space.

Here's an example of orbital-smash. Notice the fire around re-entering Superman.


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## Bullet (Feb 9, 2006)

> unknowndanex said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Scorpio3.14 (Feb 9, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> and then do a thunderclap to kill that noise, cause that would affect him.  It took out Hyperion and it'll at least hurt supes.
> 
> thunderclap would do the trick, enough with that same ol argument



are you just completely ignoreing the scan Bullet posted of Superman takeing a sonic blast that was equal to ten atomic bombs going off in your head and hardly being phased by it? Also superman >>>>>>>> the speed of sound.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> its funny that the only thing superman fans can ever bring up, is superman using superspeed, something hulk is apparantly used to to say he'll win.  u know what, hulk can sense his presence and his reflexes are top notch, hulk will smack the shit out of superman coming at him, how bout that.  or probably catch him.



Its also funny that you keep ignoreing the fact that Superman is hundreds of thousands times faster then the speed Hulk is used to. Hulk's reflexes are top notch when compared to people like Spiderman, Quicksilver, Speed Demon, etc... Superman is on an entirely different level of speed, you say you understand that but you really dont.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> and tell me how bout Doomsday, Grundy, and Lobo (first time they fought).  was he so fucking weak then?



Yes, compared to how he is now he was.


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## unknowndanex (Feb 9, 2006)

I already said it once, i won't respond to pics of the same thing over and over again, and i can't be bitter about pics you put up that contradict what you say.  you call me immature and then say the same thing i say as a counter point.  you're so original.

Now to scorpio.........


*are you just completely ignoreing the scan Bullet posted of Superman takeing a sonic blast that was equal to ten atomic bombs going off in your head and hardly being phased by it? Also superman >>>>>>>> the speed of sound.*

um the thunderclap does way more than just affects your hearing, it is a concussive blast as well.  i wasn't hinting at supes hearing i was hinting at the force of the thunderclap.  which would send superman hurling.
*
Its also funny that you keep ignoreing the fact that Superman is hundreds of thousands times faster then the speed Hulk is used to. Hulk's reflexes are top notch when compared to people like Spiderman, Quicksilver, Speed Demon, etc... Superman is on an entirely different level of speed, you say you understand that but you really dont.*

i said his reflexes are top notch in marvel.  last time i checked, silver surfer, gladiator, hyperion, namor, etc. were in marvel as well.  and his reflexes were good enough to fight hyperion and catch surfer off his surfboard.  surfer on his board>>>>>>>>>>>>speed of sound.

*
Yes, compared to how he is now he was.*

well out of those guys, Lobo does still pose a match for superman.  their fights normally end in stalemates and he doesn't posess superspeed as well.  he actually has super-strength, a healing factor, and enhanced senses.  hmmmmmmmmmm sounds familiar, except hulk keeps increasing in those aspects.

i've said it earlier, hulk is catered for superman.  hulk is the type of character that in superman's history he loses to, especially on the first try.


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## Viciousness (Feb 9, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> That scan just shows how slow Hulk really is, compared to Superman, Spiderman is not even in the same league when i comes to speed.


No that scan just shows how in denial you really are for still refusing to admit Hulk can catch Spiderman after that one and the other one you posted. This is why I say things that are obvious to most people dont seem to get through to you. My point was that Hulk adapts to speed over time and you wanted to make it seem like he couldnt even adapt to spiderman's speed which wasnt the case. You act like you have some definitive prove he wont be able to adapt to Supermans speed when he's seemingly been able to adapt to just about everything thrown at him so far in combat.




> Or how bout Supes use an orbital smash to take Hulk into space.
> 
> Here's an example of orbital-smash. Notice the fire around re-entering Superman.



A great example of what I was talking about when I said DC fans love to post things their characters have rarely used if even more than once.Even if he does whip this trick out of his hat, it's just going to piss hulk off more . It doesnt even look like it killed the guy it was aimed at.


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## Scorpio3.14 (Feb 9, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> um the thunderclap does way more than just affects your hearing, it is a concussive blast as well.  i wasn't hinting at supes hearing i was hinting at the force of the thunderclap.  which would send superman hurling.



If its a concussive force it still wouldnt effect superman while he is intangiable. That and a shock wave usually moves at only speeds of Mach 2-4. Thats about the speed of a snail compared to superman 



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> i said his reflexes are top notch in marvel.  last time i checked, silver surfer, gladiator, hyperion, namor, etc. were in marvel as well.  and his reflexes were good enough to fight hyperion and catch surfer off his surfboard.  surfer on his board>>>>>>>>>>>>speed of sound.



Was Silver Surfer moving above the speed of sound when Hulk grabbed his board? Just because he was flying on his board dosnt mean he was moving that fast. Namor isnt that fast at all and when have Gladiator or Hyperion used superspeed against Hulk? Never that I know of.




			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> well out of those guys, Lobo does still pose a match for superman.  their fights normally end in stalemates and he doesn't posess superspeed as well.  he actually has super-strength, a healing factor, and enhanced senses.  hmmmmmmmmmm sounds familiar, except hulk keeps increasing in those aspects.



You know, I dont believe Lobo has faught Superman since OWAW. Superman is a lot stronger now. Also, dont forget that Lobo is immortal, adapts/evolves almost instantly, and has a healing factor that is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hulk's.


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## Bullet (Feb 9, 2006)

> No that scan just shows how in denial you really are for still refusing to admit Hulk can catch Spiderman after that one and the other one you posted. This is why I say things that are obvious to most people dont seem to get through to you.



I think the scan proves that Hulk will never be able to catch Supes even if he tries, you're the one in denial for posting something useless like this.



> My point was that Hulk adapts to speed over time and you wanted to make it seem like he couldnt even adapt to spiderman's speed which wasnt the case.



Look above.



> You act like you have some definitive prove he wont be able to adapt to Supermans speed when he's seemingly been able to adapt to just about everything thrown at him so far in combat.



He won't, and you havn't proven that he could.



> A great example of what I was talking about when I said DC fans love to post things their characters have rarely used if even more than once.Even if he does whip this trick out of his hat, it's just going to piss hulk off more . It doesnt even look like it killed the guy it was aimed at.



More childish insults, with less debating skills!


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## Viciousness (Feb 9, 2006)

Bullet said:
			
		

> I think the scan proves that Hulk will never be able to catch Supes even if he tries, you're the one in denial for posting something useless like this.


How does that make me in denial. You specifically said Hulk cant catch spiderman after we had already posted that pic. And You were obviously wrong, and refused to admit it, maybe you want to look up denial.




> He won't, and you havn't proven that he could.


I guess I should be used to your hypocritical logic by now. Always ask them to prove the opposite of what I cant prove eh bullethead?



> More childish insults, with less debating skills!


A great one to talk about debating skills when yours consist of post 500 pictures of the same thing, refuse to acknowledge other arguments because they lack pictures, then talk down to the other person like their an idiot because I still refuse to accept their argument and they cant prove their character will win beyond every shadow of a doubt despite the fact that I cant really prove that either. 

What I said before could barely be considered an insult, but now by calling me childish youre attempting to turn it into one. I was mainly describing the picture and its unimportance. But since youre determined to go on my character (ie trying to label me),  I'm going on yours.

Honestly Id love to see you in an argument with your clone. It would go on forever and just turn into one big circle of deny every point the other you makes, post and repost a million pictures and call it an argument.


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## Bullet (Feb 9, 2006)

> How does that make me in denial. You specifically said Hulk cant catch spiderman after we had already posted that pic. And You were obviously wrong, and refused to admit it, maybe you want to look up denial.



I said he has a hard time catching Spiderman, if Spiderman's speed is enough to give Hulk alot of trouble, Supes will have an eaiser time speedbiltzing.



> I guess I should be used to your hypocritical logic by now. Always ask them to prove the opposite of what I cant prove eh bullethead?



Yup! No proof here. 




> A great one to talk about debating skills when yours consist of post 500 pictures of the same thing, refuse to acknowledge other arguments because they lack pictures, then talk down to the other person like their an idiot because I still refuse to accept their argument and they cant prove their character will win beyond every shadow of a doubt despite the fact that I cant really prove that either.
> 
> What I said before could barely be considered an insult, but now by calling me childish youre attempting to turn it into one. I was mainly describing the picture and its unimportance. But since youre determined to go on my character (ie trying to label me), I'm going on yours.
> 
> Honestly Id love to see you in an argument with your clone. It would go on forever and just turn into one big circle of deny every point the other you makes, post and repost a million pictures and call it an argument.



More childish insults, with less debating skills!


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## unknowndanex (Feb 10, 2006)

Scorpio3.14 said:
			
		

> If its a concussive force it still wouldnt effect superman while he is intangiable. That and a shock wave usually moves at only speeds of Mach 2-4. Thats about the speed of a snail compared to superman
> 
> 
> 
> ...




as for your first point, i referred to thunderclap as a way hulk can get out of the air if superman is taking him there.  and with the intangible thing, superman is moving fast, but he will still be in the area.  he be moving really fast in an area where the force will still hit him.  you act like he knows all of hulk's moves or something.  he can be beaten.

Namor isn't that fast?

shows namor's speed and the fact that he had to get to water, to really get an advantage on the hulk.  as i see, the word milliseconds is being used.  also shows him using speed on the hulk and still getting caught and thrown.
Have a nice one!
Have a nice one!

um, lobo's healing factor is not greater than the hulk.  lobo's healing factor was actually based on wolverine, the whole character of lobo besides some of his powers were based on wolverine.  hulk's healing factor >>>>>>>>>>> lobo, if lobo was fried to skeletal he would die for awhile and come back but he wouldn't heal like the hulk.  honestly i don't know if they fought after OWAW or not.

but, Hulk is catered for Superman like i said.  and he should win the first fight.


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## Scorpio3.14 (Feb 10, 2006)

unknowndanex said:
			
		

> as for your first point, i referred to thunderclap as a way hulk can get out of the air if superman is taking him there.  and with the intangible thing, superman is moving fast, but he will still be in the area.  he be moving really fast in an area where the force will still hit him.  you act like he knows all of hulk's moves or something.  he can be beaten.



I dont think you understand what intangible means. He cant be touched, he phases through anything that would hit him, this includes a shockwave from a thunderclap.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> Namor isn't that fast?
> 
> shows namor's speed and the fact that he had to get to water, to really get an advantage on the hulk.  as i see, the word milliseconds is being used.  also shows him using speed on the hulk and still getting caught and thrown.
> Have a nice one!
> Have a nice one!



Yes, relative to Superman Namor isnt that fast at all. The nanosecond thing was being used by whoever made the caption to the picture. It was not in the actual comic and didnt come from the auther of the comic, it was fan made. Even the mach 20 thing was pulled out of no where.



			
				unknowndanex said:
			
		

> um, lobo's healing factor is not greater than the hulk.  lobo's healing factor was actually based on wolverine, the whole character of lobo besides some of his powers were based on wolverine.  hulk's healing factor >>>>>>>>>>> lobo, if lobo was fried to skeletal he would die for awhile and come back but he wouldn't heal like the hulk.  honestly i don't know if they fought after OWAW or not.



Do you even know about Lobo??? First, he is immortal. He can revive/heal from DEATH! Second, from every drop of blood shed Lobo creates a new body. I would say thats just a _tiny_ bit better then Hulks healing factor lol That usually isnt even an issue though since Lobo is pretty much invulnerable, way more so then the Hulk.


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## Tousenz (Feb 10, 2006)

Lol Lobo is badass. Dont compare him to the hulk. All the clones kill each other until one lobos left as well. Shits funny as hell.


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## unknowndanex (Feb 10, 2006)

Hulk is much better than Lobo.


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## Tousenz (Feb 10, 2006)

> Hulk is much better than Lobo.


 
 Sure he is. You must be downing him because of that dam crossover.


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## unknowndanex (Feb 10, 2006)

nope, i could've sworn i stated above that i didn't think Wolverine should've beaten Lobo in the crossover.  i don't refer to the crossover that was voted on by fans, if i did, i wouldn't be defending the hulk right now would i?


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