# DC Comics 2011 Reboot thread



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 1, 2011)

Discuss.


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## Comic Book Guy (Jun 1, 2011)

If they really succeed in rebooting said 50 titles with #1 issues, this post-Flashpoint reboot will succeed what the post-CoIE reboot failed to do.

Originally, after CoIE, all relevant DC titles were to be rebooted with new #1 issues. But writers and artists put up a fuss and tried to fight back. Even Perez commented that this was 'a failure' of CoIE since that was it's what the storyline was originally conceived to do for the DC production.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Jun 1, 2011)

Ok so After a certain point once all the titles wrap their current arcs up the will be Re-re-reeeeeeeeee-Booted again.

COIE Redux 2.0 here we come oh joy look my Grant Morrison Batman has been rebooted again. Wonder if he'll come back for The Return of Bruce Wayne & Batman Inc 2.0 as well


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## SageMaster (Jun 1, 2011)

As a fan of this characters, but a newcomer to comics in general, I say I like this idea. I have friends who like these characters from movies and cartoon, but don't get much into comics because of continuity issues.

I wonder what they will do to ongoing storylines.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Jun 1, 2011)

They will never have happened as the intended Reboot never happened the 1st time I wonder if DC will re-release COIE before the 1st Rebooted Title hits news stands so I can go burn a stack of them outside DC Office to let them know I will not sstandd ffor thiis.


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## illmatic (Jun 1, 2011)

52 #1's 

DC’s already started a from-scratch universe called “Earth One.”I thought it was going to be its ultimate universe for a minute. CoIE 2.0 aka Flaspoint will muck with continuity even more it appears since some effects from previous events are being kept in place.

The Color corps. You just know its stays.

The Red Lantern Corps ongoing was confirmed while back.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

Does DC even have 52 currently running series at the moment? I mean even factoring in Aquaman and Hawkman...that still doesn't amount to 52 series I think.


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## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> They will never have happened as the intended Reboot never happened the 1st time I wonder if DC will re-release COIE before the 1st Rebooted Title hits news stands so I can go burn a stack of them outside DC Office to let them know I will not sstandd ffor thiis.



Chill raisin bran. 



> We are positioning ourselves to tell the most innovative stories with our characters to allow fans to see them from a new angle. We have taken great care in maintaining continuity where most important, but fans will see a new approach to our storytelling.
> Some of the characters will have new origins, while others will undergo minor changes.



Doesn't sound like a hard reboot to me. And word over at CBR is Green Lantern 1 picks up after Blackest Night and all that. Basically because of the way flashpoint works, they can pick and choose what they want to keep and what they want to get rid of.

Justice League's first arc is apparently going to be a sort of 'secret origin' type thing, but following that the team is supposed to be 14 members strong. In other words it's going to start out taking place a bit in the past, then move forward.


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## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2011)

btw 50 new costumes... who needs em the most? *cough*firestorm*cough*redrobin*cough*


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Chill raisin bran.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So they're ignoring Brightest Day then...that event seems kinda pointless then now...


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## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> So they're ignoring Brightest Day then...that event seems kinda pointless then now...



How the fuck did you come to that conclusion?


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> How the fuck did you come to that conclusion?



You just said that it will be picking up where Blackest night left off...So I guess i just jumped to a conclusion...never mind then...


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## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2011)

After BN not necessarily DIRECTLY after. Obviously most likely GL will basically be unchanged. That's just what's more or less confirmed, and that Johns will still be writing it.


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## Utopia Realm (Jun 1, 2011)

This seems kinda interesting though comics has never been a biggie for me. 

Since I have the summer off, need someone to point me to a decent series.


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## MrChubz (Jun 1, 2011)

I wonder if the New Gods will be effected at all. The Darkseid fanboy in me can't help but wonder.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I wonder if the New Gods will be effected at all. The Darkseid fanboy in me can't help but wonder.



I wouldn't be surprised if we got a New Gods series out of this...


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## Thor (Jun 1, 2011)

This is great for DC. They really needed to do something about their characters. When JLA and Superman have been shit for at least a decade, something needed to be done.


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## illmatic (Jun 1, 2011)

I think some of the reimaged characters being featured in Flashpoint are being set up for a ongoing post Flashpoint

S!H!A!Z!A!M! :33


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## lucky (Jun 1, 2011)

everything eventually changes.  it's like a cycle.  i bet the old timers  who read silver-age comics didn't like the newer changes (massive  nerfage of superman, revamping of entire storylines and elimination of  hordes of characters [batman + selina's kid, etc])

i'll admit it'll feel awkward and out of my comfort zone.  But it's  honestly to be expected every few decades or so.  To modernize  everything.

Hell look at Ultimate Comics Spider-man.  It was such a success cuz of  how 'modern' peter parker was made.  Still had a lot of heart.  (And yes, i realize that ultimate comics is not in 616).


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## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2011)

illmatic said:


> I think some of the reimaged characters being featured in Flashpoint are being set up for a ongoing post Flashpoint
> 
> S!H!A!Z!A!M! :33



the hope I wouldn't dare voice... I dont even like captain planet or he-man but Captain Thunder there is the first time I've thought 'ok yeah I wanna know more about this'.

I voted for the dark line though because it was the biggest surprise, not just that it exists but that it has a lot of interesting looking books and they gave it a lot of attention despite it not being their typical superhero stuff. 

Which is actually one of the coolest things about this new DCU, it's a shared world with more than just superheroes.


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## ghstwrld (Jun 1, 2011)

> Jim Lee reportedly "spearheaded" the redesign of more than 50 costumes to make characters "more identifiable and accessible to comic fans new and old."


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## Bergelmir (Jun 1, 2011)

...Well then. I guess its time to get ready for 50+ costumes like JMS's Wonder Woman. Faaantastic.


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## Parallax (Jun 1, 2011)

Who's drawing Supes with Morrison.

Either way I'm gonna be all over that title.


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## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> ...Well then. I guess its time to get ready for 50+ costumes like JMS's Wonder Woman. Faaantastic.



pfft, lee drawing 50 superheroes AND putting out a monthly comic? key word is spearheaded 

His Justice League designs there are hit (aquaman) and miss (flash chinstrap wtf) but I like the idea of trying to modernize things.


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## Bergelmir (Jun 1, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Who's drawing Supes with Morrison.
> 
> Either way I'm gonna be all over that title.



I somehow missed that little tidbit. Best news to come out of this reboot. 



Petes12 said:


> pfft, lee drawing 50 superheroes AND putting out a monthly comic? key word is spearheaded
> 
> His Justice League designs there are hit (aquaman) and miss (flash chinstrap wtf) but I like the idea of trying to modernize things.



The Flash and WonderWoman are the only ones that look really awkward there. I'm missing the gold on WW already.


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## illmatic (Jun 1, 2011)

Gail Simone off Birds of prey and back on Wonder Woman is what I expect.

Unless they already plan to keep Dan Abnett & Andy Lanning on WW


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## Castiel (Jun 1, 2011)

As the biggest DC white knight on this board I can safely say:

They've lost their marbles


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## Parallax (Jun 1, 2011)

As much as a bad idea is this I really want to see what Morrison can do with a rebooted Superman.  I'm pretty sure Batman Inc wont be changed around too much.


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## Stilzkin (Jun 1, 2011)

didn't wonder woman just get rebooted?


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## Bender (Jun 1, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> ...Well then. I guess its time to get ready for 50+ costumes like JMS's Wonder Woman. Faaantastic.



I know...I'm already turned off.

If WW made be  what makes that mofo think I won't react the same way to 50 diff designs for superheroes.


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## Taleran (Jun 1, 2011)

My opinions on this are as follows

1) DC doesn't have the creative teams currently working for them to support this kind of books.

2) This seems like a very big way to piss off retailers. Especially rolling the entire thing out in a single month.

3) This right now sits at 50/50 and there isn't a middle ground either its a resounding success or a catastrophic failure and DC has to scramble to recover

4) Earth One......lol

5) They have an opportunity to tap creative teams outside their usual talent pool it could lead to interesting things.

6) Success or failure doing something like this takes some serious balls which I can commend.

Everything else has been said here.


Important point


> I spoke to someone who Should Know today (they called me!), and I was assured that, yes, we’re talking about 52 new ongoing monthly titles set in the superhero universe, this is not “Vertigo and Kids comics too” or whatever.


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## Slice (Jun 1, 2011)

Redesigned costumes might be a very bad idea (see: JMS Wonder Woman)

Rebooting the entire line is risky but might not be that bad, its like a book changing to another creative team only company wide.


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## tari101190 (Jun 1, 2011)

i only recently got into comics within the last few months. i regret buying the dc comics i got now. ifi knew this reboot was coming i would have just waited till then to start buying comics.

i do like the idea though.


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## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2011)

52 comics isn't that big a difference from what they already do. If you look at the May 2011 solicitations, they had 48 monthlies solicited, not including some GL movie 1 shots, and not including vertigo either.

If they really manage to pull in better talent with this move like they claim it could be a pretty big improvement.

I know, I'm always the optimist before this stuff comes out, but I want it to work <.<


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## Slice (Jun 1, 2011)

I still doubt that the changes will be so drastic they drive readers away.


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 1, 2011)

Huh. Not sure what to think about this yet. I'm kind of interested, but kind of not. I'm really confused at to what they are rebooting, but I'm not completely opposed to it. In all honesty, I really loved the Ultimate Universe, but the problem was that Marvel didn't give a shit and was completely willing to wreck it in one brutal masterstroke. Maybe DC will be less hesitant to do this... hopefully.

At the very least, hopefully this will mean we can forget things like DC Decisions, Amazons Attack, and Countdown. Hm.

Also, the prominence of Cyborg in that picture is interesting. He's getting the Jaime Push, isn't he?


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## Parallax (Jun 1, 2011)

In theory this is a great idea and honestly this is really what DC needs.  The thing is like Taleran said, the talent pool is dry and this will either be huge or the biggest dud of the past 10 years.

If they can use this relaunch to secure top talent over Marvel it'll all be worthwhile.  Cause honestly right now outside of the Morrison and Johns books I probably (more like wont) read any of the other titles.


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## neodragzero (Jun 1, 2011)

Wait, they're actually doing a reboot for this many titles? Not just a renumbering?

That's insane.

I guess I enjoy the fact that Cyborg gets more face time but the statement about diversity is kind of a joke after what happened to the new Atom, Jason, Kimiyo, and generally the return to original cast of Silver Age Legion of Superheroes.


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 1, 2011)

Well, let's think in practical terms here. I have to believe that about 15 or so of those titles minimum are miniseries and/or one-shots to help establish the new Status Quo. And hopefully it does attract some new writers; it would be nice to see someone like... well, anyone to be coming over to DC right now.


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## Mickey Mouse (Jun 1, 2011)

My lord...its a reboot. DC get your shit together, aye?


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm more interested in what series they won't be bringing back after this...I'm guessing Deathstroke's Titans might be biting the dust...probably ditching JSA: All Stars and Gotham Sirens as well if they do.

Also as Guy noted a ton of those will probably be minis


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## neodragzero (Jun 1, 2011)

My main issue with such a huge reboot is the utter lack of talent that would make that work so well. Someone is gonna be overworked and we all know that someone is Geoff Johns.


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## Castiel (Jun 1, 2011)

well they have morrison on a superbook, and they have cornell on exclusive, I hope they give him some love.


also I hope to god they've tapped int oa shitload of guys from marvel and other companies to back this up


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## Tatl / Tael (Jun 1, 2011)

Can someone clarify for me, are they doing an actual "cosmic reset" like CoIE? or is it just new #1s? Cause I see the JMS Wonder Woman and Cyborg on that JLA pic. 

I mean is Dick Grayson still going to be Nightwing come Christmas of 2011 or is he back to his pixie boots as Robin?


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## Slice (Jun 1, 2011)

Tatl / Tael said:


> I mean is *Dick Grayson still going to be Nightwing* come Christmas of 2011 or is he back to his pixie boots as Robin?



How long has it been since you read your last Batman book?


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## neodragzero (Jun 1, 2011)

Tatl / Tael said:


> I mean is Dick Grayson still going to be Nightwing come Christmas of 2011 or is he back to his pixie boots as Robin?



You might want to catch up on what has happened with Dick Grayson for the past two years...?


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## Tatl / Tael (Jun 1, 2011)

Duh.... Sorry. I knew he was Batman.

But, that didn't answer my question. Is he going all the way back to Robin?


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## neodragzero (Jun 1, 2011)

And ignore all the Grant Morrison build up, they would be somewhat insane to even ponder that idea.


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## Slice (Jun 1, 2011)

I guess its only a question of time before he returns to beeing Nightwing, but going back to Robin i doubt this will ever happen.


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## Tatl / Tael (Jun 1, 2011)

Yeah. I'm reading further and it seems this is a "Zero Hour" style clean up of continuity.


Hmm... I might jump back on in August after a year of not reading because of budget reasons.


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## hehey (Jun 1, 2011)

What happens to Tm Drake and Damian Wayne?


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 1, 2011)

I think they'll be fine. I really think that the batverse will be left pretty much fine.


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## ghstwrld (Jun 1, 2011)

> Well, it looks like there will be a new Batgirl #1 amongst the 52 relaunched books in September.
> 
> What will be different this time is that the book will star Barbara Gordon as Batgirl.
> 
> ...


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 1, 2011)

Nightwing book, nice.

Barbara gordon randomly being batgirl again? Ehh? What happens to steph and cass?


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## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2011)

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 1, 2011)

... So who is Oracle? I kinda figured this was going to happen, but I'm not enthused about it. We don't need Barbara as Batgirl, unless she is taking the other girls under her wing. I mean, it's not like we can't have multiple Batgirls (We just went through multiple Batmen, and I think everyone really enjoyed that), but I don't know why it needs to be Barbara.

Nightwing, I don't mind. To me, Dick is distinctive enough that he can go between both identities and not be a problem for me. In fact, I kind of like him going back to Nightwing. While "Nightwing and Damien" doesn't quite have the same ring to it (It actually sounds like a pair of occult heroes from Vertigo), it'll still be the same sort of interaction. I think Damien has matured to the point where he'd be proud to receive his tutelage from Grayson without the Bat mantle.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

Fuckin hell come on

Like the Nightwing book...Barbara being Batgirl again not so much...


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm going to list off all the series that could be a part of the new 52. Add any I might have missed.

The Atom
Batman
Superman
Wonder Woman
Green Lantern
The Flash
Aquaman
Hawkman
Blue Beetle
JLA
JSA
Outsiders
Secret Six
Batgirl
Nightwing
Supergirl
Superboy
Legion of Superheroes
Batwoman
Booster Gold
Captain Marvel
Birds of Prey
Teen Titans
Titans
Robin/Red Robin
Multiversity
Green Lantern Corps
Power Girl
Zatanna

... And I'm out. Keep the list going.


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## Bender (Jun 1, 2011)

> Well, it looks like there will be a new Batgirl #1 amongst the 52 relaunched books in September.
> 
> *What will be different this time is that the book will star Barbara Gordon as Batgirl.
> *
> ...



What. The. Fuck.


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 1, 2011)

Well, it's not like Alan Moore will care. He's been very clear that it's the one of the least favorite stories he's written.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I'm going to list off all the series that could be a part of the new 52. Add any I might have missed.
> 
> The Atom
> Batman
> ...



Adventure Comics if they decide to continue on with Legion Academy...Maybe a New Gods reboot as well.


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 1, 2011)

I suppose I'll also add in The Question, Batman Inc (Forehead Slap), Manhunter, and maybe a Lex Luthor comic. A few villains will probably get them to establish the new SQ.


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## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2011)

1 Batman
2 Detective Comics
3 Nightwing
4 Red Robin
5 Batgirl
6 Batwoman
7 Nightwing and Robin?
8 Batman Inc?
9 Batman/Superman
10 Superman
11 Action Comics
12 Supergirl
13 Superboy
14 Justice League
15 JLI
16 Wonder Woman
17 Green Lantern
18 Green Lantern Corps
19 3rd GL book
20 Flash
21 Kid Flash/Speed Force book
22 Aquaman
23 Firestorm
24 Hawkman
25 Teen Titans
26 JSA
27 Green Arrow
28 Swamp Thing
29 Birds of Prey
30 Secret Six/Suicide Squad
31 The Question
32 Batman Beyond
33 Superman Beyond
34 JL Beyond yes I hear they're really doing that oh my god it will be bad
35 Jonah Hex
36 Legion
37 Booster Gold
38 Blue Beetle
39 Static 
40 Power Girl


Theres also a lot of stuff theyre putting out now, that I dont know how realistic it is at all that they'd keep em going. Zatanna, Xombi, another Outsiders book, Weird Worlds, another Legion book etc.

Theres also been recent cancellations like Rebels, freedom fighters etc so I dont think anyone can say DC cant get up to the 40s in range of titles, because they already do. Making them all sell would be an impressive trick though!


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 1, 2011)

Again, I expect more than a few of these will be one-shots. Zatanna, for instance, and the Question. Blue Beetle as well. And God, I hope they end Superman/Batman. There's a series which has long outlived its usefulness.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

Superman/Batman should probaby be put in the same pile as Titans and Gotham Sirens of series that should stay cancelled to be honest.

It was fun while it lasted but as Guy said it has outlived it's usefulness


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## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2011)

eh i think it has kiddy appeal. if parents go looking for a comic they think their kids will like, and they see a team up of batman and superman... honestly I thought that was always the point of that book.


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## MrChubz (Jun 1, 2011)

Is JL Beyond supposed to be based on that lame justice league from Batman Beyond?


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## SageMaster (Jun 1, 2011)

I don't think having so many #1's is actually a good idea. It would alienate some newcomers, which is exactly what they're trying to prevent.

Newcomer: "Great, I can't wait to read these continuity free comics..... wait I have to buy 52 comics? Fuck this shit"


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Jun 1, 2011)

I can see this conversation happening now

CBSM

"What can I help u with."

Customer

"I'm here to buy Batman and Batman Inc...

CBSM

"DC has Rebooted its Cataloge.

Customer

"WTF... So where do the current story arc fit in what been junkered whats been kept and is whats been kept going to be re-written in the history of DC and should I just wait for DC to issue re-writtes before buying anything until this cluster of a mess is ironed out

... I have one last question why are they Rebooting now?

CBSM

"Because they didn't properly reboot after COIE"

Customer

"Buys whats in his folder then cancells account."


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Is JL Beyond supposed to be based on that lame justice league from Batman Beyond?



Yes, yes it is...and considering how lackluster Batman Beyond is being I don't understand why they'd want more Beyond stories.

Edit: Lol time warps.


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## MrChubz (Jun 1, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Yes, yes it is...and considering how lackluster Batman Beyond is being I don't understand why they'd want more Beyond stories.
> 
> Edit: Lol time warps.


That's going to be awful. I'm going to go out on a limb and say they're the lamest superhero team in current fiction.


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 1, 2011)

While I don't want an origin story, you know what would be great? If a lot of the comics did quick, one-page summations of the origins ala _All-Star Superman_. Text, no text, but a quick, visual reminder of where the character came from. I think those would actually really help if this were a true reboot.


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## Banhammer (Jun 1, 2011)

So I guess this settles that "what mattered more, civil war or that what's-it's-name crisis" question, doesn't it?


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## Castiel (Jun 1, 2011)

they could also make Adventure an anthology book or something


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## Bender (Jun 1, 2011)

Does Cyborg really need to be the 7th member of the Justice League?


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## tari101190 (Jun 1, 2011)

hehey said:


> What happens to Tm Drake and Damian Wayne?





Guy Gardner said:


> ... So who is Oracle? I kinda figured this was going to happen, but I'm not enthused about it. We don't need Barbara as Batgirl, unless she is taking the other girls under her wing. I mean, it's not like we can't have multiple Batgirls (We just went through multiple Batmen, and I think everyone really enjoyed that), but I don't know why it needs to be Barbara.
> 
> Nightwing, I don't mind. To me, Dick is distinctive enough that he can go between both identities and not be a problem for me. In fact, I kind of like him going back to Nightwing. While "Nightwing and Damien" doesn't quite have the same ring to it (It actually sounds like a pair of occult heroes from Vertigo), it'll still be the same sort of interaction. I think Damien has matured to the point where he'd be proud to receive his tutelage from Grayson without the Bat mantle.



this reboot is described as if things are going back to the begining but in a modern setting.

people are talking about cass, steph, tim and damien etc, but as i understand it, they won't exist anymore if things are being rebooted right? that is how barbara will be batgirl, because she'll be a teenager again.

i thought this all meant that dc will be ALL NEW. ignoring and discarding current continuity, but being similar.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 1, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> this reboot is described as if things are going back to the begining but in a modern setting.
> 
> people are talking about cass, steph, tim and damien etc, but as i understand it, they won't exist anymore if things are being rebooted right? that is how barbara will be batgirl, because she'll be a teenager again.
> 
> i thought this all meant that dc will be ALL NEW. ignoring and discarding current continuity, but being similar.



I highly doubt they'll be getting rid of Tim, Cass, Damian, etc.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> this reboot is described as if things are going back to the begining but in a modern setting.
> 
> people are talking about cass, steph, tim and damien etc, but as i understand it, they won't exist anymore if things are being rebooted right? that is how barbara will be batgirl, because she'll be a teenager again.
> 
> i thought this all meant that dc will be ALL NEW. ignoring and discarding current continuity, but being similar.



Dude if they get rid of those characters, the fanbase will fucking revolt.


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## tari101190 (Jun 1, 2011)

their ages are said to be reverted too. bruce will probably be 25/26 again now. damian will probably not exist. and if teenage barbra is around, cassadnrda and stephanie won't be. if dick is already nightwing then robin maybe jason or tim.

it seems crazy to discard all the newer characters and storylines, but that is the whole point of the reboot. no more batman inc etc. everything will be going back 10 years or so.


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## Comic Book Guy (Jun 1, 2011)

I wonder how the Batgirl reboot will be. . .


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## Banhammer (Jun 1, 2011)

I really don't give a crap about DC except for the extension in which this affects Secret Six


Anyway, this reminds of BND when Quesada said "unlike some companies out there we're not just going to hit the "reset" button"
Lol


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## Bender (Jun 1, 2011)

^

@ Comic book guy

Only one word to describe it:


*Spoiler*: __ 



*BAD*


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## Slice (Jun 1, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> their ages are said to be reverted too. bruce will probably be 25/26 again now. damian will probably not exist. and if teenage barbra is around, cassadnrda and stephanie won't be. if dick is already nightwing then robin maybe jason or tim.
> 
> it seems crazy to discard all the newer characters and storylines, but that is the whole point of the reboot. no more batman inc etc. everything will be going back 10 years or so.



Oh my if this will actually come true...
I just dont know what to think of it.


Also i dont care how stupid it is to have Barbara in a wheelchair when there is tech in the world that could make her walk again, she is a good character as Oracle and i like her that way.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

Slice said:


> Oh my if this will actually come true...
> I just dont know what to think of it.
> 
> 
> Also i dont care how stupid it is to have Barbara in a wheelchair when there is tech in the world that could make her walk again, she is a good character as Oracle and i like her that way.



Shit will hit the fan if that's actually true.

Also that's pretty much my exact feelings for Barbara in this situation


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## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2011)

Eh wont happen. de-aging will most likely just be visual basically.


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## Tatl / Tael (Jun 1, 2011)

It's the de-aging that bugs me. If Barb is back to Batgirl, does Wally go back to Kid Flash?


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## illmatic (Jun 1, 2011)

J. Michael Straczynski on how "Earth One" books will be effected 



> "No effect at all," JMS told Newsarama asked if the reboot would effect the second volume of Superman: Earth One. "The book is already a re-imagining of sorts, and DC is very happy to leave that alone in its own separate arena. The changes affect the monthly books, not the Earth One line, which operate outside that continuity.
> 
> "Oddly enough, the only effect kind of works in the opposite direction, as Superman Earth One was a bit of a proof-of-concept that you could reconsider and remake the characters with a contemporary thrust and it'll work.  It did.
> 
> "What Dan[DiDio] is doing is correct, massively gutsy and long overdue.  More power to him."


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## illmatic (Jun 1, 2011)

Read this over at Newsrama...

_Tom Brevoort on May 31, following DC’s announcement of relaunching the entire DCU line:_


_
Brevoort later went on to tell followers that he wasn’t bemoaning DC’s decision, just making sure that people knew that they could buy Marvel Comics while they wait for the relaunch. And adding the hashtag #theonesthatcount.  _


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## MrChubz (Jun 1, 2011)

That's not a bad idea actually. I love me some Marvel cosmics.


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## Bender (Jun 1, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> That's not a bad idea actually. I love me some Marvel cosmics.



Hell to the fuck yeah.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

Will still be buying Secret Six, Batman Inc and Birds of Prey irregardless...


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## Glued (Jun 1, 2011)

I'll be trying to scrap up whatever leftover Aquaman issues at my nearby comic store.

The Silver Age ended.
Will this age be known as the Bronze Age.


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 1, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> So I guess this settles that "what mattered more, civil war or that what's-it's-name crisis" question, doesn't it?



I suppose so. Of course, it's sad to see the better story get less push behind it, but such is the way of the world.

And again, there's no indication that they will be eliminating the shit-ton of characters which were created since the COIE. I wouldn't worry about people disappearing. The problem with Batgirl is that since we know Barbara is coming back in that spot, it kind of puts the other two out in No Man's Land. I suppose we could always get Spoiler back, but I have no clue what they'll do with Cass. Though, again, it's not like we haven't had two Batmen, so two Batgirls isn't that out there.

Bender: There are 14 members of the Justice League for the new start. I'm guessing this is just a continuance of Cyborg's long-needed push. I mean, he and most of the Titans should have been in the League anyways.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I suppose so. Of course, it's sad to see the better story get less push behind it, but such is the way of the world.
> 
> And again, there's no indication that they will be eliminating the shit-ton of characters which were created since the COIE. I wouldn't worry about people disappearing. The problem with Batgirl is that since we know Barbara is coming back in that spot, it kind of puts the other two out in No Man's Land. I suppose we could always get Spoiler back, but I have no clue what they'll do with Cass. Though, again, it's not like we haven't had two Batmen, so two Batgirls isn't that out there.
> 
> Bender: There are 14 members of the Justice League for the new start. I'm guessing this is just a continuance of Cyborg's long-needed push. I mean, he and most of the Titans should have been in the League anyways.




Cass could just stick to her new Black Bat codename...also I agree that the majority of the old Titans really need to move up to the League.

Maybe this reboot will unfuck Roy Harper as well...I can always hope at least


----------



## Glued (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm hoping for the return of King Solivar of Gorilla City.


----------



## Bender (Jun 1, 2011)

> No Man's Land. I suppose we could always get Spoiler back, but I have no clue what they'll do with Cass. Though, again, it's not like we haven't had two Batmen, *so two Batgirls isn't that out there.*



Actually, it kinda is. The fact that we are bringing back Nightwing says that it isn't working well Dc's creative writing staff. 



> Bender: There are 14 members of the Justice League for the new start. I'm guessing this is just a continuance of Cyborg's long-needed push.





> I mean, he and most of the Titans should have been in the League anyways.



IMO, Cyborg was doing fine as a intermediary for the young generation like the Teen Titans and their seniors, the Justice League. By doing that he's able to pick up a crapload of information. Remember Pre-Infinite Crisis during John's run he was place pretty well. Not only that but he's able to feed any info to the kiddies(TT) in case another IdentityShit Crisis like the one with Dr. Light happens again.   

Cyborg's older gen of Titans Dick(should work with the Outsiders again),Raven, Kory, Gar should be the seniors for any new additions to the team. Really there's nothing wrong or compromising their stardom by remaining on a team like the Titans for Cyborg. Or at least have Cyborg be part-time on the team.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 1, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I'm hoping for the return of King Solivar of Gorilla City.



That'd actually be an awesome one-shot. Considering the apparent opinions that people hold about Gorilla City, it'd be nice to get an in-depth look at the place to put away such criticisms in a definitive manner.

And the first thing I thought of when I thought of characters coming back was Lian Harper. That'd be lovely.

Oh, and I think we are in the Iron/Steel age, depending on how refined you think comics are. The Bronze Age was the late 80's/90's era of _*XTREME~!*_.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> That'd actually be an awesome one-shot. Considering the apparent opinions that people hold about Gorilla City, it'd be nice to get an in-depth look at the place to put away such criticisms in a definitive manner.
> 
> And the first thing I thought of when I thought of characters coming back was Lian Harper. That'd be lovely.
> 
> Oh, and I think we are in the Iron/Steel age, depending on how refined you think comics are. The Bronze Age was the late 80's/90's era of _*XTREME~!*_.



Oh god yes, one of the multiple things that needs to be done with this reboot, is unfuck Roy Harper...after the shit that happened to him in Cry for Justice and Rise of Arsenal it really needs to be done...Lian coming back would work wonders.


----------



## Bender (Jun 1, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> And the first thing I thought of when I thought of characters coming back was Lian Harper. That'd be lovely.




Oh fuck yes. Lord knows she was screwed over horribly.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 1, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> And the first thing I thought of when I thought of characters coming back was Lian Harper. That'd be lovely.



Lovely doesn't even begin to cover it.

More like yes, yes, and *YES *absolutely again.


----------



## Stalin (Jun 1, 2011)

Comic companies cannot make up their minds on how long they want to keep a status quo can they?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 1, 2011)

Bender said:


> Actually, it kinda is. The fact that we are bringing back Nightwing says that it isn't working well Dc's creative writing staff.



Dick was never meant to be Batman forever. I'd actually be sad if he never went back to being Nightwing, as he has an awesome costume and name. This is just pretty good point to go back to that.



> IMO, Cyborg was doing fine as a intermediary for the young generation like the Teen Titans and their seniors, the Justice League. By doing that he's able to pick up a crapload of information. Remember Pre-Infinite Crisis during John's run he was place pretty well. Not only that but he's able to feed any info to the kiddies(TT) in case another IdentityShit Crisis like the one with Dr. Light happens again.
> 
> Cyborg's older gen of Titans Dick(should work with the Outsiders again),Raven, Kory, Gar should be the seniors for any new additions to the team. Really there's nothing wrong or compromising their stardom by remaining on a team like the Titans for Cyborg. Or at least have Cyborg be part-time on the team.



See, at this point I feel like Cassie is honestly a good "senior" Titan, along with people like Tim, Conner, and Bart. Most of the Wolfman Titans need to find new places in the DCU. At this point, they feel a bit old going to the Titans, especially when people like Wally and Roy have gone on to the Justice League, while Dick has enough other places to go (Outsiders, his own ongoing). Starfire now has a team she can walk off to with Adam Strange and  Animal Man, Donna has Wonder Woman, Beast Boy has the Doom Patrol... only Cyborg and Raven are basically exclusive to the Titans, and I think they both could move past that.

While the Titans aren't a "minor league", they aren't _the_ team of the DCU. Cyborg needs to step up (especially after being known as an exemplary leader for so damn long) and take his place with the greats. He certain deserves the shot, and I think he'll do well there. He could always be the liaison for the Titans to the JLA, giving him a reason to occasionally come over to Titans Tower on official business as well as seeing how things are going.

Now if we could only find a spot for Raven... Perhaps they could make a magic team that she could join, similar to Shadowpact?


----------



## Glued (Jun 1, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> That'd actually be an awesome one-shot. Considering the apparent opinions that people hold about Gorilla City, it'd be nice to get an in-depth look at the place to put away such criticisms in a definitive manner.
> 
> And the first thing I thought of when I thought of characters coming back was Lian Harper. That'd be lovely.
> 
> Oh, and I think we are in the Iron/Steel age, depending on how refined you think comics are. The Bronze Age was the late 80's/90's era of _*XTREME~!*_.



Iron Age, I like the sound of that. 

Sadly I'm a little sad that when this retcon comes, some characters will be wiped from all memory and existance.

Aztek who gave his life to stop Mageddon, Koryak the illegitmate son of Aquaman, Frankentsein, Bulleteer, Woozy Winks, Paco who beat an alien down with a stick and maybe even Congorilla.

Maybe its best that we remember the good times before Flashpoint before moving on.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

Raven's somehow regressed in development lately...it's gotten to the point that somebody needs to really bail her out.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 1, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Iron Age, I like the sound of that.
> 
> Sadly I'm a little sad that when this retcon comes, some characters will be wiped from all memory and existance.
> 
> ...



Nonsense. Frankenstein is too awesome to let a simple retcon effect him.


----------



## Glued (Jun 1, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Nonsense. Frankenstein is too awesome to let a simple retcon effect him.



I hope your right.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 2, 2011)

Are we sure all of those characters are catching the retcon bug? I mean, Paco is a pretty big part of Blue Beetle's supporting cast and he's a character who has a big push. I _know_ Frankenstein won't be gone (Mostly because Morrison loves him way too much), though I can say little on the others. The last thing I remember Bulleteer in was _52_, and I can't think of anything else. I'm not sure we are losing that many people as much as we are shifting and switching things.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 2, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Iron Age, I like the sound of that.
> 
> Sadly I'm a little sad that when this retcon comes, some characters will be wiped from all memory and existance.
> 
> ...



They're not going to delete characters unless they see it as somehow beneficial, which means it'd have to be a character they have to delete to get rid of, and can't just ignore the character. 

Plus, Frankenstein has a flashpoint mini so if anything he's getting a push.


----------



## Bender (Jun 2, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Now if we could only find a spot for Raven... Perhaps they could make a magic team that she could join, similar to Shadowpact?



That's the team I was thinking about before! 

Shadowpact should be brought back from the grave.


Seriously, what the hell happened to that series? It's so non-existent nowadays. But then again I didn't expect anything less while Didio's in charge. IIRC he said stuff like Shazam(I mean the magical part) is out of place in the DCU. I mean seriously? So Shazam is out of the question but Zatanna isn't? Here's how I'm seeing his viewpoint: nearly all heroes without any alien origins should be of street-level operation. 



> See, at this point I feel like Cassie is honestly a good "senior" Titan, along with people like Tim, Conner, and Bart. Most of the Wolfman Titans need to find new places in the DCU. At this point, they feel a bit old going to the Titans, especially when people like Wally and Roy have gone on to the Justice League, while Dick has enough other places to go (Outsiders, his own ongoing). Starfire now has a team she can walk off to with Adam Strange and Animal Man, Donna has Wonder Woman, Beast Boy has the Doom Patrol... only Cyborg and Raven are basically exclusive to the Titans, and I think they both could move past that.
> 
> 
> While the Titans aren't a "minor league", they aren't the team of the DCU. Cyborg needs to step up (especially after being known as an exemplary leader for so damn long) and take his place with the greats. He certain deserves the shot, and I think he'll do well there. He could always be the liaison for the Titans to the JLA, giving him a reason to occasionally come over to Titans Tower on official business as well as seeing how things are going.


 
Huh, I never thought of it that way. I suppose you're right.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 2, 2011)

Bender said:


> That's the team I was thinking about before!
> 
> Shadowpact should be brought back from the grave.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure how it sold, but it wasn't particularly well I'm sure. I'm really surprised it lasted as long as it did, as it was a fairly enjoyable series and I loved the eclectic bunch of characters they have (Man, I miss me some Ragman). 

I've always been of the opinion that you need a book or two covering the magical side of the universe, just like you need a few cosmic books covering what's going on in the universe. Setting things up similar to what DnA did with the Marvel Cosmic books for the longest time is a great model for what both companies should do with magic. I'm a guy who is big on hierarchies and spheres of influence, and it's probably why I gravitate to the DC Universe so much: So much of that hierarchy and such is already there. Including the Shadowpact and then doing a Zatanna ongoing, along with the occasional magic mini or two would go far in fleshing out the magic side of things. Give it direction and use the momentum.



> Huh, I never thought of it that way. I suppose you're right.



Yeah. 

Another less wordy way of looking at him is that he's the DC equivalent of Cyclops: A proven and respected leader who is multi-talented and wouldn't be bad for a mini if he wasn't such a staple of team books. He leads one of the foremost teams (but not _the_ foremost team) in the MU, and if it weren't for his special role as a Mutant leader he probably could have been on the Avengers right now.

Cyborg is similar, but he doesn't have the same responsibility holding him back. Instead, he's just there for nostalgia. So him not moving on is really awkward because there's such a lack of reason for it.

And I just wanted to say that now because I just realized it and I doubt I'll get a second chance to say it.


----------



## Bender (Jun 2, 2011)

> I've always been of the opinion that you need a book or two covering the magical side of the universe, just like you need a few cosmic books covering what's going on in the universe.



I do sort of see where they're coming from with the cancellation of Shadow Pact though. When you're running a comic about a team of heroes one of them has to be the most iconic of the bunch. You know, like how Batman is one of the most well-known in the Justice League (as well as feared). Now, if Raven was to be put in the Shadow Pact I'm certain that reader interest in it will improve greatly.



> I'm a guy who is big on hierarchies and spheres of influence, and it's probably why I gravitate to the DC Universe so much: So much of that hierarchy and such is already there. Including the Shadowpact and then doing a Zatanna ongoing, along with the occasional magic mini or two would go far in fleshing out the magic side of things.



DC Universe in my opinion perhaps has the best magic stories and users around.



Yeah. 



> Another less wordy way of looking at him is that he's the DC equivalent of Cyclops: A proven and respected leader who is multi-talented and wouldn't be bad for a mini if he wasn't such a staple of team books. He leads one of the foremost teams (but not _the_ foremost team) in the MU, and if it weren't for his special role as a Mutant leader he probably could have been on the Avengers right now.



 

Indeed.

Excellent summary.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 2, 2011)

Raven and Dr. Fate would be good additions. Fuck, we'd finally have an outlet for the new Zatara to actually get involved. If nothing has pissed me off with the Titans, it's teasing him _constantly_, and instead all we get is him being a douche and walking off EVERY FUCKING TIME. Oh, and we can get a place for Mary Marvel or Captain Marvel, Jr to hang out.

Get Willingham (He does much better on the magical side of the DCU) or Giffen to write it. Toss Paul Dini an ongoing Zatanna series. Maybe I'm talking out my ass, but I think Paul Cornell would do very well with the Marvel Family. Every now and then, throw out a 4-6 issue mini with a different character in the magical universe which needs a push (Ragman, Enchantress, Dove and Hawk) and help it lead into an event.

So in total:

1 Ongoing Individual Series (Zatanna)
1 Team Book (Shadowpact)
1 Family/Individual Book (Shazam and the Marvels)

and toss in a mini or two every now and then, with their own events and such. This is a pretty basic design which we've already seen work with Marvel's Cosmic Universe.


----------



## Glued (Jun 2, 2011)

I wonder what will happen to Static.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 2, 2011)

Something I think is pretty interesting is depending on how drastic the changes are you could make a really interesting Teen Titans / Young Justice line up.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 2, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _Wonder Woman_ 





> New York Times bestselling writer Brian Azzarello, author of The Joker and 100 Bullets, teams up with the immensely talented artist Cliff Chiang (Neil Young’s Greendale) for WONDER WOMAN #1, an exciting new series starring the DC Universe’s greatest superheroine. The cover to issue #1 is by Cliff Chiang.






*Spoiler*: _Aquaman_ 





> Geoff Johns, one of comics’ greatest storytellers, reunites with GREEN LANTERN and BRIGHTEST DAY collaborator Ivan Reis to bring you a thrilling new take on the fan-favorite hero of the sea in AQUAMAN #1. The cover to issue #1 is by Ivan Reis and Joe Prado.






*Spoiler*: _FLASH_ 





> Rising superstar Francis Manapul, fresh off his acclaimed run on THE FLASH with Geoff Johns, makes his comics writing debut in THE FLASH #1, sharing both scripting and art duties with Brian Buccellato. The Flash knows he can’t be everywhere at once, but what happens when he faces an all-new villain who can? The cover to issue #1 is by Francis Manapul and Brian Buccellato.






*Spoiler*: _Firestorm_ 





> Welcome to a major new vision of the Nuclear Man as writers Ethan Van Sciver and Gail Simone team up with artist Yildiray Cinar to deliver THE FURY OF FIRESTORM #1. Jason Rusch and Ronnie Raymond are two high school students, worlds apart – and now they’re drawn into a conspiracy of super science that bonds them forever in a way they can’t explain or control. The cover to issue #1 is by Ed Benes.






*Spoiler*: _Hawkman_ 





> Batman writer Tony Daniel will team up with artist Philip Tan (GREEN LANTERN: AGENT ORANGE, THE OUTSIDERS) for THE SAVAGE HAWKMAN #1. Carter Hall’s skill at deciphering lost languages has led him to a job with an archeologist who specializes in alien ruins – but will the doctor’s latest discovery spread an alien plague through New York City? No matter the personal cost, Carter Hall must don his cowl and wings and become the new, savage Hawkman to survive. The cover to issue #1 is by Philip Tan.






*Spoiler*: _Green Arrow_ 





> Oliver Queen is an orphan who grew up to fight crime as the Green Arrow, a billionaire playboy who uses his fortune to become a superhero – able to fight the most powerful super-villains in the universe with nothing but a bow and arrow. JT Krul will write GREEN ARROW #1 with art by superstar artist Dan Jurgens. The cover to issue #1 is by Dan Jurgens and Norm Rapmund






*Spoiler*: _Justice League Internatinal_ 





> A team of internationally-drafted superheroes fight each other and their bureaucratic supervisors as much as they do global crime in JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL #1 from writer Dan Jurgens and artist Aaron Lopresti. The cover to issue #1 is by Aaron Lopresti.






*Spoiler*: _Mister Terrfic_ 





> The world’s third-smartest man – and one of its most eligible bachelors – uses his brains and fists against science gone mad in MISTER TERRIFIC #1, the new series from writer Eric Wallace and artist Roger Robinson. The cover to issue #1 is by J.G. Jones






*Spoiler*: _Captain Atom_ 





> Captain Atom has all the power in the world, but no hope of saving himself. Charged by nuclear energy, possessing vast molecular powers, he has the potential to be a god among men – a hero without limits. But the question is this: Will he lose himself in the process? JT Krul and artist Freddie Williams II take the character in a bold new direction in CAPTAIN ATOM #1. The cover to issue #1 is by Stanley “Artgem” Lau






Click each to see cover and creative team


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 2, 2011)

Hmm a Mister Terrific series...I think i'll check that out. I like Firestorm and Hawkman's redesign...Hawkman has a whole Conan the Barbarian look going for him. 

There are some faces in the JLI promo that I don't reconize...and I have no plans to follow Wonder Woman...because I honestly just don't give a shit about the character anymore.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 2, 2011)

Didnt take long for artists to deviate from the Jim Lee designs some. You'd think they would have a better handle on that stuff considering it's this big push and all. Hawkman's new helmet is pretty cool though. 

anyone know who the JLI member is on the bottom left?

And Manapul writing really? They're doing the writer/artist thing on a book like Flash for this?


----------



## illmatic (Jun 2, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _DCU presents_ 





> The anthology series gets a new look in DC Universe Presents, a new series that will focus on multi-issue story arcs each featuring a different superhero from the DC Universe’s rich cast of characters, told by some of comics’ most exciting writers and artitsts. DC UNIVERSE PRESENTS #1 kicks off the first arc of the series: a Deadman story by Paul Jenkins and Bernard Chang. The cover to issue #1 is by Ryan Sook






now we know another 10 out of 52


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## LIL_M0 (Jun 2, 2011)

So that's what happens if both Firestorms do the fusion dance?


----------



## Taleran (Jun 2, 2011)

Hey look its Flashpoint again 10% of the books I will care about woohoo.


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## ghstwrld (Jun 2, 2011)

illmatic said:


> > New York Times bestselling writer Brian Azzarello, author of The Joker and 100 Bullets, teams up with the immensely talented artist Cliff Chiang (Neil Young?s Greendale) for WONDER WOMAN #1, an exciting new series starring the DC Universe?s greatest superheroine. The cover to issue #1 is by Cliff Chiang.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 2, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> So that's what happens if both Firestorms do the fusion dance?



lol!
Don't people generally like both of those guys?


----------



## Taleran (Jun 2, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Don't people generally like both of those guys?



I think it is more the tone isn't really Wonder Woman its more Kratos.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 2, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Don't people generally like both of those guys?



I'm mildly interested, but Azzarello doesn't seem like the guy who'd be right for WW.

Also, Francis writing Flash kinda scares me. I love his art though so im glad he's still on the title.


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## Petes12 (Jun 2, 2011)

I kind of think its hilarious they still have 2 people on the Flash, but they're both sharing writing and art duties. 

It'll be a mess <.<


Oh, and Green Arrow rockin the smallville look, still sucking.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 2, 2011)

Green Arrow looks alright, and I feel like if JT krul was allowed to write a consistent story not dealing with CFJ and Brightest Day it'd be decent. I'll probably pick up issue 1.

I'm more concerned about Tim, Bart, Kon, etc.


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## Petes12 (Jun 2, 2011)

By the way am I reading this right? They just gave up on hawkman and are doing his origin again? hahaha, what happens when a few years down the road they try to reincorporate all the old versions of him again?


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 2, 2011)

Dc is never going to make up thiey're minds when it comes to Hawkman and Hawkgirl to be honest...It be nice if they did, but it's mever going to happen.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 2, 2011)

Cliff Chiang is awesome, glad to see him actually on an ongoing.  In any case I personally liked his "For Tomorrow" arc for Superman, so maybe he'll surprise me again on WW.

also wow, the Simone/EVS book they're been working on for close to 2 years is Firestorm.

Jurgens on GA seems


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 2, 2011)

I like how they called him a 'superstar artist', yeah that's not a stretch or anything.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 2, 2011)

Only Captain Atom interests me so far.


----------



## neodragzero (Jun 2, 2011)

illmatic said:


> *Spoiler*: _Aquaman_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The only thing there that interests me is the WW #1 and Mister Terrific getting his own book. Everything else sounds...meh.

I see that my worry about a lack of serious talent in writers was actually optimistic.


What? Azarello is a good writer. He does know how to write female characters.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 2, 2011)

Van Sciver should be drawing not writing goddamit.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 2, 2011)

Especially since he's been working on this book with Simone for close to 2 years


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## Petes12 (Jun 2, 2011)

Supposedly its something else theyve been working on together.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 2, 2011)

I call bs on that one.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 2, 2011)

Why the hell are all the artists now thinking they can be writers too?  It's like they're trying so hard to be the next Byrne or Simonson


----------



## Cromer (Jun 2, 2011)

At least 20 of these will be miniseries, right?

And I desperately pray for the return of Morrison+Quitely+Grant on Superman...except then Superman's going to be fucking late all the time.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 2, 2011)

Flashpoint was Editors event
Reboot is Writer/Artist tries everywhere

Will probably end up like Flashpoint tie ins

10% Interesting
10% Promising
80% Don't Fucking Care


----------



## Bender (Jun 2, 2011)

That Wonder Woman cover makes me want to vomit.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 2, 2011)

lol typical bender. 

Chiang's a good artist.


----------



## Bender (Jun 2, 2011)

petes12 said:
			
		

> Chiang's a good artist.



Yeah, the arts good. It's just that I'm absolutely horrified by how they're actually continuing to run with WW's new look.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 2, 2011)

looks like the old look + pants to me.


----------



## Bender (Jun 2, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> looks like the old look *+ pants to me*.



+pants=New look


----------



## Taleran (Jun 2, 2011)

If you want to own both the digital and print of the same comic it will cost you a dollar extra and you will get a poly bag included in the deal.

LOL


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 2, 2011)

...why would you get the digital version if you're getting the print one?


----------



## Taleran (Jun 2, 2011)

Because its a COMBO pack................


----------



## Bender (Jun 2, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> ...why would you get the digital version if you're getting the print one?





Why the hell are they even putting comics on the web? I look at manga on the web and read comics in print.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 2, 2011)




----------



## Petes12 (Jun 2, 2011)

OLD**

more relevant


----------



## illmatic (Jun 2, 2011)

The combo might be for collectors and such


----------



## MrChubz (Jun 2, 2011)

I wonder what he would have done if he was told of the Flash chinstrap.


----------



## Bender (Jun 2, 2011)

I could care less about the collar I'm more curious as to why they feel the need to remove Supes underwear. I mean what comic book readers too grown up for a dude in his undies playing super hero? Jim Lee's designs are so redundant sometimes.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 2, 2011)

Bender said:


> I could care less about the collar I'm more curious as to why they feel the need to remove Supes underwear. I mean what comic book readers too grown up for a dude in his undies playing super hero? Jim Lee's designs are so redundant sometimes.


For Superman. DC lost the rights to certain aspects of superman to the creators families.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 2, 2011)

Eh, its funny superman's the one character I didn't see how his design could work without the underwear. But the fact is the underwear thing in superhero comics isn't cool anymore, and hasn't been, and comics have been trending away from it for years now. For the last year Superman and graysonBatman were the only 2 heroes left still wearing them.


----------



## Bender (Jun 2, 2011)

illmatic said:


> For Superman. DC lost the rights to certain aspects of superman to the creators families.



It's what made them so classy IMO. Even though it's goofy you shouldn't allow it to fool you since he can kick ass. It sickens me that Supes is breaking up with Lois Lane so he can be a bachelor again. I mean seriously, why the need to OMD him like Peter Parker?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 2, 2011)

Bender said:


> Why the hell are they even putting comics on the web? I look at manga on the web and read comics in print.





Bender said:


> I could care less about the collar I'm more curious as to why they feel the need to remove Supes underwear. I mean what comic book readers too grown up for a dude in his undies playing super hero? Jim Lee's designs are so redundant sometimes.



I swear to god of all the things to bitch at, your going after some of the most bizarre and random things.

Your seriously annoyed about DC joining the rest of the world in the 21st century? seriously?

Also quite honestly I'm not even really that bothered by Superman's redesign....it's if they're actually breaking him and Lois is when i'm going to bitch


----------



## vicious1 (Jun 2, 2011)

Mr. Terrific's new outfit looks terrible.

I'll wait to see how the Superman stuff plays out before I get angry. Which from the looks of it, I'm going to get really pissed off.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 2, 2011)

vicious1 said:


> Mr. Terrific's new outfit looks terrible.
> 
> I'll wait to see how the Superman stuff plays out before I get angry. Which from the looks of it, I'm going to get really pissed off.



They really shouldn't have dropped his jacket


----------



## Bender (Jun 2, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I swear to god of all the things to bitch at, your going after some of the most bizarre and random things.



I was merely mentioning what was said on Comicbookresources forum. 



> Your seriously annoyed about DC joining the rest of the world in the 21st century? seriously?



Not so much now. 



> Also quite honestly I'm not even really that bothered by Superman's redesign....






> it's if they're actually breaking him and Lois is when i'm going to bitch



^

Yeah, this is more my main concern at the moment.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 2, 2011)

It would be great if this reboot were able to bring in *paying* readers from all over not just readers from U.S I suppose. 

Similar to the way the movies have world-wide appreciation. Yet it might be a tough sell. young people not reading and all


----------



## Castiel (Jun 2, 2011)

I like how this changes nothing for Batwoman guess we can mark that one off, hell the delay works perfectly 

so what do you guys think will be the name of Morrison's Batbook?  Keeping Batman Inc. as the title but just renumbered from 1?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 2, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> OLD**
> 
> more relevant



I love that webcomic.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Jun 2, 2011)

Are they changing the S-shield because of the lawsuit? Or is that just a Jim Lee thing?

Also, breaking up Supes and Lois is BS. That Supes/WW rumor I've been hearing about is nothing, right?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 3, 2011)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> Are they changing the S-shield because of the lawsuit? Or is that just a Jim Lee thing?
> 
> Also, breaking up Supes and Lois is BS. That Supes/WW rumor I've been hearing about is nothing, right?



who knows.


Bret Booth is drawing Teen Titans. So, you know, there goes any chance of DC making that book something I might want to read.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 3, 2011)

Castiel said:


> I like how this changes nothing for Batwoman guess we can mark that one off, hell the delay works perfectly
> 
> so what do you guys think will be the name of Morrison's Batbook?  Keeping Batman Inc. as the title but just renumbered from 1?



I hope it changes nothing honestly.  Though I can see DC giving him the Supes book as reparations.


----------



## Bender (Jun 3, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> who knows.
> 
> 
> Bret Booth is drawing Teen Titans. So, you know, there goes any chance of DC making that book something I might want to read.



Is Bret Booth that bad?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 3, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpUh_Yl49l4&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]

"What Jim Lee should have done was put a cape on Jonah Hex and have him kill Superman." Oh, Hitler.


----------



## Bender (Jun 3, 2011)

"Comic book readers are morons! The scum of the internet!" 

   

Nice


----------



## SageMaster (Jun 3, 2011)

DC should start with a few high-quality titles instead of 52 books.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 3, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> DC should start with a few high-quality titles instead of 52 books.



See that would be the commen sense approach to this, but apparently, market saturation and probably audience confusion is a far better option to Didio and Johns.


----------



## SageMaster (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm hoping they intend to release those 52 titles gradually instead of releasing all of them in September.

This actually sounds awesome to me to jump on buying comics regularly, but they need to focus on their purpose on alienating newcomers. No one is gonna want to join in if they have to buy 52 comics.

Now, if they start with a few strong titles and lead the new fans into new titles, this could be great for DC.


----------



## Slice (Jun 3, 2011)

I hate these "Hitler reacts to x" videos, cant concentrate on the subtitles when you understand what he is really saying 

And there are rumors of Clark / Lois breaking up? Is there a deal with the devil involved?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 3, 2011)

Huh. That bleedingcool site says that at one point they thought they might do a relaunch/reboot sort of thing after final crisis. Which would've made a lot of sense with how that book ended with the miracle machine.

GL books are basically staying the same btw.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 3, 2011)

And with the title of the event...


----------



## Taleran (Jun 3, 2011)

> GREEN LANTERN #1
> 
> Geoff Johns has been charting the adventures of Hal Jordan and the GREEN LANTERN Corps since GREEN LANTERN: Rebirth, collaborating with such major artists as Ethan Van Sciver, Darwyn Cooke, Prentis Rollins, Marlo Alquiza and Mick Gray.
> 
> ...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 3, 2011)

Lol a Red Lanterns series...don't know how I feel about that.

Looking at Linkara's site, he seems to be taking this kinda hard.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 3, 2011)

Looks like the same as it ever was.

At this point I just care about the Batman books I don't want all the Inc work going to waste.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2011)

oh god damn it, Ed Benes on RL

also yet another cool cover to put on the "Cool Dave Johnson Cover" pile


----------



## Parallax (Jun 3, 2011)

Yeah I'm bummed out about Benes doing it, I was actually interested in what Milligan had in mind but now I don't really know.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2011)

Yeah, there's a short list of writers that could take the concept of the Red Lanterns and make it an interesting read without all the GORE GORE GORE, and I'd put Milligan on that list.

Shame.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 3, 2011)

DC probably gave Milligan the book and the option to do whatever as long as they picked the artist. 

Dammit this is the most upsetting thing about the entire relaunch.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 3, 2011)

No I think *this is*


"BATMAN INCORPORATED #10
Written by GRANT MORRISON
Art and cover by CHRIS BURNHAM
1:25 Variant cover by FRAZER IRVING
In “LEVIATHAN STRIKES,” Batman realizes to his horror that he’s been outwitted as the true identity of Leviathan continues to elude him. Is his deadly adversary an old foe with a grudge to settle, a new face of evil or something completely different? One thing is for sure: The surprise ending will not soon be forgotten!"

Depending on what that ending is.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 3, 2011)

I don't think I would be worried about that at all.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 3, 2011)

Maybe it's upsetting that Paquette is still not doing the art since he's too damn slow?


----------



## illmatic (Jun 3, 2011)

Not so much when... Burnham > Paquette


----------



## Taleran (Jun 3, 2011)

Leviathan is really Grant Morrison and they have a nice long chat about the nature of Reboots.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 3, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Not so much when... Burnham > Paquette



twas a joke

But I really liked the idea of ONE artist doing the first 12 issues since that's such a rarity nowadays and welp 4 issues in and that idea went to the toilet.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 3, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Leviathan is really Grant Morrison and they have a nice long chat about the nature of Reboots.



The one thing not even Batman can stop


----------



## Taleran (Jun 3, 2011)

Burnham is pretty damn quick for how good he is.

He is gonna Take off.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 3, 2011)

Oh yeah I like him a lot, he should have been the original artist imo


----------



## Taleran (Jun 3, 2011)

The only other 2 guys I can think of on the level and speed would be Manke and Immonen.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 3, 2011)

Cassaday can actually draw a page a day, he just happens to draw in series' where the writer is slow.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 3, 2011)

I haven't liked any of his work past Planetary though


----------



## Parallax (Jun 3, 2011)

He hasn't done any work since Planetary lol

His X-Men and Captain America stuff was good.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 3, 2011)

> "So I felt confident that it was coming soon (which is one reason why I felt there wouldn?t be a problem in the long run leaving the monthly books, since most of the things done in Superman and Wonder Woman would be erased by the reboot anyway, so ultimately it didn?t matter whether I stayed or left. I just couldn?t say anything at the time because I wanted to respect Dan?s privacy and his desire to do what he thought was right when he thought it was right to do it."



_whoa _


----------



## Bender (Jun 3, 2011)

You guys saw Dan's letter addressing the reboot?

Here it is

I posted it on CBR forums



> Folks, as you wonder and wait for the new series announcements to unfold, I just wanted to let you know that we are spending an extraordinary amount of time and energy to reinvigorate our line of characters and bring the best books possible for the widest audience possible. Sorry if anyone is feeling disenfranchised, especially since that's not the intent. Quite the opposite, we are trying to create a place and story where older fans can point for new fans to start, whether in periodical, graphic novel or digital. A place where everyone can share in the excitement of the DC Universe.
> 
> As the saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and there are a lot of great things that don't need fixing. But we're also saying that we will not stand idly by and let series run on inertia and let the industry fade around us. All of us here at DC love the form and the characters way too much for that.
> 
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2011)

ahahaha oh god wow JMS WOW


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 3, 2011)

Oh god that's fantastic

"Never mind my hissy fit, I ditched my books because I had amazing foresight"


----------



## Bender (Jun 3, 2011)

^

Ahahahahhahahhahah


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 4, 2011)

I can't believe how brazen DC's getting; their contempt for their readers is so amazingly over-the-top.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 4, 2011)

This is DC, it's not so much contempt as their trademark continous string of naivete.  

It's a different thing from say, Tom Breevort saying that Marvel prefers fans to be angry at them


----------



## Parallax (Jun 5, 2011)

Yeah I wouldn't say they're doing this out of contempt

While this may not be the move that many like at least DC has the stones to try something like this for better or worse.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 5, 2011)

Surprised they didn't fuck over Kyle, and actually gave him his own series. 

Maybe I'll get back into comics just for Rayner again.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 5, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Surprised they didn't fuck over Kyle, and actually gave him his own series.
> 
> Maybe I'll get back into comics just for Rayner again.



Its too bad his book will have turd art.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2011)

90s art for the 90s character


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 5, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> 90s art for the 90s character





Well, at the very least its not turtleman or a Liefeld.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 5, 2011)

I still find the concept flabbergasting but on another hand, this could be the perfect opportunity for me to claim to be a DC reader


----------



## Cromer (Jun 5, 2011)

Not just turd art, but a merely serviceable writer for Rayner as well.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 5, 2011)

Damn, now I don't care anymore


----------



## Taleran (Jun 5, 2011)

> We’d teased it here, but now get the full thing. Greg Capullo’s cover to Batman #1 coming in September. He’ll be the artist. The writer? Let’s find out tomorrow…




Should be worth noting. Guy on the left I think is wearing a Pig mask.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2011)

not terribly excited for the art


----------



## MrChubz (Jun 5, 2011)

The cover looks good. Hopefully the pig guy won't be the focus of the comic.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 5, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Not just turd art, but a merely serviceable writer for Rayner as well.



Servicable hardly does Bedard justice. His work in GLC so far hasn't been amazing, but it's been decent. And he was knocking it out of the park with Rebels.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 5, 2011)

keyword is was


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 5, 2011)

Parallax said:


> keyword is was



I think if he was allowed to do his own thing on GLC it'd be more like REBELS. Either way, just because he's not awesome now doesn't mean he never will be again.

So i'm cautiously optimistic.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 5, 2011)

I'll skip it, I need to save the funds.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> I can't believe how brazen DC's getting; their contempt for their readers is so amazingly over-the-top.



you cant really think DC makes business decisions based on contempt for their customers can you...


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 5, 2011)

Considering their acts of aggression and exploitative tactics over the last six or so years, why not?


----------



## Cromer (Jun 5, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Servicable hardly does Bedard justice. His work in GLC so far hasn't been amazing, but it's been decent. And he was knocking it out of the park with Rebels.



Since I've never read R.E.B.E.L.S, I pretty much HAVE to judge by GLC.



And quite frankly, like Krul, his writing is not _bad_, per se...it's just kinda there.


Anyway, it's frigging Rayner, so I'll still give it a chance for at least two issues. Then we'll see.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 5, 2011)

> turtleman


oh god, I'm glad that guy dropped off the face of the earth


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 5, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Since I've never read R.E.B.E.L.S, I pretty much HAVE to judge by GLC.
> 
> And quite frankly, like Krul, his writing is not _bad_, per se...it's just kinda there.
> Anyway, it's frigging Rayner, so I'll still give it a chance for at least two issues. Then we'll see.



Yea, GLC isn't bad, but it's nothing special. If he could get it to be as good as REBELS I'd be happy. For awhile, REBELS was my favorite DC comics book, and that included GL and GLC.

EDIT: And yea, Kyle's my favorite lantern too, so hopefully it's good. Although, for a Kyle series, what's Ron Marz doing?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 5, 2011)

> turtleman


I gave him that name


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2011)

wait who is turtleman


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 5, 2011)

The guy who made me dislike X-Factor. He did the issues where they found Darwin or whatever happened (too ugly; didn't read) and he did a fill in where Syrin was pregnant by the dupe baby.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 5, 2011)

Larry Stroman, he did the X-Factor Secret Invasion tie-ins and the Bishop origin mini.

He's um

uh

yeah


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2011)

yeah..........................

I didn't read any of that.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 5, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> yeah..........................
> 
> I didn't read any of that.




*Spoiler*: _Stroman art_ 









And this is some of his better stuff on that book.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2011)

i have no words. 

those faces...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 6, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: _Stroman art_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jesus, how did he ever get put on a book with art like that? and you said that was his better stuff...I hate to see what qualifies as his worst


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 6, 2011)

Oh man, the worst art of his I saw was on that Bishop mini that came out after Bishop went bonkers trying to kill Hope. That was especially terrible.  He actually makes Liefeld look pretty awesome, which is an impressive feat of its own.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 6, 2011)

Oh, it gets worse. So much worse. And he was on X-Factor for almost 6 months if my memory is correct.


Bergelmir said:


> Oh man, the worst art of his I saw was on that Bishop mini that came out after Bishop went bonkers trying to kill Hope. That was especially terrible.



This.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 6, 2011)

Lil_m0 said:
			
		

> I didn't know bishop was born a manatee



paraphrased of course


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 6, 2011)

Of course. 


Petes12 said:


> i have no words.
> 
> those faces...



That's why I call him "turtleman" his faces look like human/turtle hybrids to me.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 6, 2011)

taken right from DCU blog 

*Source*: 

these could also just be cover variants for Detective Comics,Search for Swamp Thing, and Gotham Sirens.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2011)

lol nightwing lookin weird.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 6, 2011)

That Nightwing costume makes it look like it could be Tim or Jason. If its Dick... bleh. The blue looked better.

The Detective Comics cover is pretty sweet, though.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 6, 2011)

Swamp Thing looks alright with a "Paquette Face"


----------



## Parallax (Jun 6, 2011)

fuck Paquette is doing Swamp Thing?  His slow ass should be working on Batman Inc >:[


----------



## illmatic (Jun 6, 2011)

Catwoman will be featured in TDKR as well as Arkham City so I suppose  a Catwoman ongoing makes sense


----------



## Castiel (Jun 6, 2011)

also march did the cover so I'm figuring it's a GSS follow up


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 6, 2011)

JLI cover


I know its a reboot and all, but replacing Beetle and Captain Atom with Aquarock and Vixen is just stupid.

And Booster looks silly.

EDIT: And the Wonder Woman cover 
The costume doesn't really look so bad, imo. I like it. Still needs the gold, though.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2011)

DC fucks up:


----------



## Taleran (Jun 6, 2011)

Images



That is definitely the Barbra Gordon BatGirl costume.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Images
> 
> 
> 
> That is definitely the Barbra Gordon BatGirl costume.



I love it when they go for nostalgia and recognition over, you know, story potential or diversity.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 6, 2011)

Oh and Nightwing is back apparently.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 6, 2011)

"Bruce Wayne will once again be the only character to be wearing the Batman costume."


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> DC fucks up:





*sigh* This is probably what CBG feels when it comes to Cass Cain.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 6, 2011)

"No more Batmen."


----------



## illmatic (Jun 6, 2011)

_David Finch's Batman: The Dark Knight will also be returning with a new #1, despite it only ever reaching two issues since its launch in November 2010. _


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 6, 2011)

New Nightwing costume:



Similar to the one in Renegade.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 6, 2011)

I see I see


*Spoiler*: _Batgirl_


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 6, 2011)

the new Nightwing costume looks funky...and honestly looks like something better suited to Jason than Dick.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 6, 2011)

Agree about Jason.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 6, 2011)

4 Books Starring Bruce Wayne is supposed to be 'New Reader' friendly


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 6, 2011)




----------



## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2011)

Taleran said:


> 4 Books Starring Bruce Wayne is supposed to be 'New Reader' friendly



Dont forget both Justice League books! Works for Marvel though, and I can't say I'm too upset about it. One book, even a stellar book like Inc, was not enough Bruce Wayne 

It's, you know, everything else that bothers me. 

Among all the obvious stuff, how about how EVERY BRUCE WAYNE BOOK (except Tomasi/Gleason's) has that same damn type of artist. WTB Jock.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 6, 2011)

Nightwing 
Batman
Batman & Robin
Catwoman
Batwoman
Batgirl
The Dark Knight
Detective Comics



Lucifer Morningstar said:


>


:rofl


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 6, 2011)

illmatic said:


> I see I see


----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 6, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> New Nightwing costume:
> 
> 
> 
> Similar to the one in Renegade.



I hate this so much 

It better be Todd


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2011)

red gets across that he's a former robin. I half expected that. the red eyes are goofy though.


----------



## Slice (Jun 6, 2011)

Nightwing costume is "too red" thats a color that suits Jason better than Dick.The costume would look better in blue.
I also would have prefered "Nightwing & Robin" instead of a Bruce / Damian team.

I still do not want Barbara as Batgirl back, i prefer Oracle teaching and supervising the current Batgirl.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 6, 2011)

Slice said:


> Nightwing costume is "too red" thats a color that suits Jason better than Dick.The costume would look better in blue.
> I also would have prefered "Nightwing & Robin" instead of a Bruce / Damian team.
> 
> I still do not want Barbara as Batgirl back, i prefer Oracle teaching and supervising the current Batgirl.



Same here really...it's just something that i've gotten so used to with Barbara and  read she's massivly better as a character as Oracle anyways.


----------



## Slice (Jun 6, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> I hate this so much
> 
> It better be Todd



Wrong hair color.




Emperor Joker said:


> Same here really...it's just something that i've gotten so used to with Barbara and  read she's massivly better as a character as Oracle anyways.



Its not that she is "better" as Oracle, she is just as good. Her teaching Batgirl because she once was one has way more potential than her beeing it again.

But i guess this viewpoint is because i mainly know her as Oracle because when i started reading comics she already was in the wheelchair a few years. I think the only story with Babs as Batgirl i had ever read before i started to read some classics was "Year one".


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2011)

BTW Perez is writing and drawing Superman, which I find hilarious.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 6, 2011)

What happened to Grant Morrison on Superman?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2011)

It was only ever stated he was on a Superman book, so he could be on Action (actually thats the title I expected him to be on).

But it's just a rumor for now.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 6, 2011)

Oh what the fuck.  This sure ruins my day

that Superman book better be fucking good if DC is doing this shit.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 6, 2011)

Jeff Lemire to write Animal Man when its relaunched in September


----------



## Parallax (Jun 6, 2011)

Who cares Animal Man hasn't been relevant since circa 1990


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2011)

Animal Man really? 

So much for that diversity eh?


----------



## Parallax (Jun 6, 2011)

at this point it looks like I'll be picking up less DC titles with this relaunch

and I'm dropping more Marvel books too

well at least my wallet will be happy


----------



## Taleran (Jun 6, 2011)

Maybe they will give Superman to Morrison, Waid, Peyer and Roberson(because I don't think DC would hire Millar right now) and Superman 2000 is go for launch 11 years later.

It contains a lot of things within that they seem to be hinting at, (rejuvenation of the character, villains, breaking up the marriage)


----------



## lucky (Jun 6, 2011)

i just want damian to be ok.  He's an awesome robin.

*EDIT*

n/m, he's good!  But i liked the dick/damian dynamic.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 6, 2011)

> Writer Gail Simone sent us a few words about today?s BATGIRL #1 announcement:
> 
> ?Barbara Gordon is pretty much my everything. Because of the Batman TV show, she was the reason I fell in love with superheroes. Because she was a redhead who could kick ass, she is the reason I fell in love with comics. She was always forward-looking as Batgirl, a girl who was smarter than the male characters, who had class and elegance and style, as well as tough-as-nails grit. For a long time, there was simply nothing else like her in comics, and for me and a lot of other readers, her every appearance was joyful and explosive.
> 
> ...


**


----------



## Parallax (Jun 6, 2011)

Goddamit I liked her as Oracle more.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 6, 2011)

I think the reason I liked her as Oracle is because she held a very unique post that neither company has really: The switchboard operator of the Superhero universe. Marvel never really had one since Marvel's superhero community is a bit more Balkanized, but for DC it made sense and it was really neat. Any superhero who was at least accepted into the superhero community had an immediate support figure to get information and radio to for help if necessary.

Not only that, but she was a disabled superhero who was a huge part of the superhero community. (She had just as many connections to the superhero world as Dick had, which really says something. He's probably the most connected superhero in modern comics.) Making her into a standard "Patrol and Fight" superhero, while making her more active, takes away from the mystique of someone who can thrash you from the comfort of her home.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 6, 2011)

Gail Simone will make Babs Superman-level.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 6, 2011)

Well, if there is anyone to trust with the character, it's Gail Simone. I'd trust just about any character with her. But Ms. Gordon? Definitely.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 6, 2011)

> Writer Gail Simone sent us a few words about today’s BATGIRL #1 announcement:
> 
> “Barbara Gordon is pretty much my everything. Because of the Batman TV show, she was the reason I fell in love with superheroes. Because she was a redhead who could kick ass, she is the reason I fell in love with comics. She was always forward-looking as Batgirl, a girl who was smarter than the male characters, who had class and elegance and style, as well as tough-as-nails grit. For a long time, there was simply nothing else like her in comics, and for me and a lot of other readers, her every appearance was joyful and explosive.
> 
> ...


Classic? I  remember her as Batgirl in the animated series "The Batman" where she was around 16 I'm guessing

[YOUTUBE]adye1CVSzrM[/YOUTUBE]

I'll probably should read *Batgirl: Year One*


----------



## illmatic (Jun 6, 2011)

> Grant Morrison had this to say about Batman, Incorporated:
> 
> ?Batman, Incorporated will continue through to Issue #10 and August?s shocking season finale that changes the Batman status quo yet again. The series will take a brief hiatus while I work on a major new project to be announced shortly. Batman, Incorporated returns next year with me, Chris Burnham and Batman: Leviathan, the epic 12 part conclusion to my 6 year Batman saga. Don?t miss it!?


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 6, 2011)

They don't care about Tim, he's the Rayner of the Bat-family (not as awesome obviously)


----------



## Bender (Jun 6, 2011)

> Writer Gail Simone sent us a few words about today?s BATGIRL #1 announcement:
> 
> ?Barbara Gordon is pretty much my everything. Because of the Batman TV show, she was the reason I fell in love with superheroes. Because she was a redhead who could kick ass, she is the reason I fell in love with comics. She was always forward-looking as Batgirl, a girl who was smarter than the male characters, who had class and elegance and style, as well as tough-as-nails grit. For a long time, there was simply nothing else like her in comics, and for me and a lot of other readers, her every appearance was joyful and explosive.
> 
> ...




Fucking A

just freakin great

Frickin Babtards are running the show


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 6, 2011)

illmatic said:


>



Oh thank Jebus.


----------



## Penance (Jun 6, 2011)

Feck..............


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 6, 2011)

Only thing I'm excited about is the Red Hood one.

I believe Tim is safe, but Cass and Steph will probably be stuck in limbo.



Bender said:


> Fucking A
> 
> just freakin great
> 
> Frickin Babtards are running the show



Ugh, I can't believe you, Simone.

I don't see how making her Bat_girl_ again helps her character at all.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 6, 2011)

Though I agree with you, I chuckled reading your post with that set


----------



## Bender (Jun 6, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Only thing I'm excited about is the Red Hood one.



Same

That's gonna be good



> but Cass and Steph will probably be stuck in limbo.



They undoubtedly are. 




> Ugh, I can't believe you, Simone.
> 
> I don't see how making her Bat_girl_ again helps her character at all.




  

Be honest you're enjoying it.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 6, 2011)

Castiel said:


> Though I agree with you, I chuckled reading your post with that set



 I like classic Batgirl. Doesn't mean I want Babs to regress to it. It's a fond memory. I loved Dick as Robin. Doesn't mean I want him wearing panties and pixie boots again.

She grew up. It's time for DC to grow up too.



Bender said:


> Same
> 
> That's gonna be good



They have the opportunity to redeem two characters that got the short end of the stick more than once.

I wonder if they'll bring Lian back.



Bender said:


> They undoubtedly are.



Steph must be cursed. She was Robin for three weeks and she doesn't get to be Batgirl for more than two years. 

And Cass was Black Bat for... one issue? Damn.



Bender said:


> Be honest you're enjoying it.



o u 

I was enjoying the new Batgirl and the possibility of Cass as Black Bat. And Dick and Damian as the Dynamic Duo. I don't think Damian and Bruce make a good team. I see much wangst in their future. 



Ben Grimm said:


> Alan Moore paralyzed Barbara via the Joker. Out of respect for Alan Moore, she should be left paralyzed.



Eeeeh, I don't think Moore deserves respect for fridging Babs.

The people that turned her into one of the most powerful superheroines in DC, though? _Those_ people do deserve respect.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 6, 2011)

Seein just how this all will fit together without being contradictory will be entertaining & frustrating at the same time.

DC Universe Legacies the new timeline?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 7, 2011)

...
...
...

Simone/EVS on Firestorm was last minute change?  and the first guy was fucking Brian Clevinger?

my god DC

my god


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 7, 2011)

Castiel said:


> ...
> ...
> ...
> 
> ...



Supposedly they basically pitched against each other and Simone won. But yeah, can't believe they couldn't find another book for him. Also the current batgirl writer wasn't approached by DC for any of the new titles. 

This, while Manapul writes Flash and Tony Daniels writes Detective Comics.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 7, 2011)

Seriously you had Clevinger over to make a pitch, Clevinger.  At least make him an offer, don't let him just walk away :V


also anyone else find it amazingly hilarious they're referring to Batwing as an "african american"


----------



## Penance (Jun 7, 2011)

Castiel said:


> Seriously you had Clevinger over to make a pitch, Clevinger.  At least make him an offer, don't let him just walk away :V
> 
> 
> also anyone else find it amazingly hilarious they're referring to Batwing as an "african american"



Jesus Christ...


----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 7, 2011)

Castiel said:


> Seriously you had Clevinger over to make a pitch, Clevinger.  At least make him an offer, don't let him just walk away :V
> 
> 
> also anyone else find it amazingly hilarious they're referring to Batwing as an "african american"



Im gonna speak for myself, im black, when I say one of the things I hate most is when companies try to market specific things for specific demographics. Seriously, to me DC sounds like:

"LOL we need some black folk reading comics, we need to broaden the market to make more $$$! So lets make a black character for the black people."

Instead of "lets focus on making a good character thats so engaging that it sells to all demographics." 

Obviously I have no problem with black characters but when its just a cheap ploy its just shallow and hopefully the book fails. Unless of course, DC is actually going to try and make this book amazing (which I doubt). Petes or someone can explain it better than I can though, I dont have a way with words.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 7, 2011)

I meant more the fact that Batwing is FROM Africa, not America


----------



## Parallax (Jun 7, 2011)

Hahahah that's delightfully racist

the Batbooks are a lost cause.  On to the next travesty, where the Superman book announcements.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 7, 2011)

Well Morrison has one, and there's a rumor of Perez writing Superman itself.

I just hope Roberson and Cornell get _something_


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 7, 2011)

ehhh I dont want to read Roberson if he's going to write like he does on grounded.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 7, 2011)

Rescue operations aren't pretty


----------



## Parallax (Jun 7, 2011)

Perez is too old and slow to be handling a Superman monthly

at this point I just wanna see how DC has repayed Morrison with Superman

they better be giving him one hell of an artist


----------



## Castiel (Jun 7, 2011)

I said writing, but he yeah he'll probably at least draw a few issues.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 7, 2011)

Castiel said:


> Rescue operations aren't pretty



Not sure that's to blame for his smiley HEY CHUM LETS REMINISCE ABOUT WHAT GOOD FRIENDS WE ARE adventures complete with stilted unnecessary and unnatural narration throughout flashbacks.

Batwing getting a book is kind of cool even if it is obviously done because DIVERSITY! DC needs it and if they're going to make new characters, making them minorities is a good idea. You know, as long as they have their own codename that won't get them killed later on. 

On that note, I like how they claim they're trying to diversify the DCU but then they bring in steph and then barbara for that nostalgic plucky heroine junk that you can get from supergirl and a ton of other heroines- instead of sticking to Cassandra who was a unique fan favorite character that happened to be asian. 


But back to Batwing, it's written by Winick. You just know he's going to indulge in his whole after school special thing and make his book some weak commentary on Africa. Which would be fine if he could write that stuff well... but it usually comes off as pretty forced.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

Castiel said:


> Seriously you had Clevinger over to make a pitch, Clevinger.  At least make him an offer, don't let him just walk away :V
> 
> 
> also anyone else find it amazingly hilarious they're referring to Batwing as an "african american"





That reminds me, now that Batman Inc is going to end and probably be forgotten... what happens to the other Batmans? Is Batwing the only one that will survive Flashpoint?



Petes12 said:


> Not sure that's to blame for his smiley HEY CHUM LETS REMINISCE ABOUT WHAT GOOD FRIENDS WE ARE adventures complete with stilted unnecessary and unnatural narration throughout flashbacks.
> 
> Batwing getting a book is kind of cool even if it is obviously done because DIVERSITY! DC needs it and if they're going to make new characters, making them minorities is a good idea. You know, as long as they have their own codename that won't get them killed later on.
> 
> ...



DC is all about diversity. That's why they are getting rid of three female characters (one of them asian, another one disabled) to replace them with a white straight abled character. Just when they brought Cass back too! And if Steph's book is dead... what happens to Wendy?

Oh, they are also giving all the bat boys (except Tim, so far) their own books. But two female members of the Bat family are not even important enough to get an announcement of what the hell is going to happen to them.

Diversity, people!


----------



## Sesha (Jun 7, 2011)

Not to mention Ryan Choi. Diversity won't help Deathstroke be relevant, apparently.

Also, who was the writer with the anti-religious tirades? That wasn't Winick, was it? Not too good on remembering the various writers, sadly.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 7, 2011)

Is Barbara a teenager now?


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

As far as we know, yes.

Her being 30 and wearing the Batgirl suit would be even more ridiculous.

Also...



> …Barbara Gordon leaping, fighting, and swinging over Gotham. Now, when citizens of that city look up, they are going to see BATGIRL.



What exactly were the citizens seeing when it was Cass or Steph leaping, fighting, and swinging over Gotham?


----------



## Sesha (Jun 7, 2011)

Nubile impostors, obviously.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

Sesha said:


> Nubile impostors, obviously.



Fake Batgirls, all of them!


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 7, 2011)

illmatic said:


> _David Finch's Batman: The Dark Knight will also be returning with a new #1, despite it only ever reaching two issues since its launch in November 2010. _



plus it was really, really terrible. It's gonna be DC's version of Moon Knight, always finding a way to relaunch.


----------



## Slice (Jun 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> As far as we know, yes.
> 
> Her being 30 and wearing the Batgirl suit would be even more ridiculous.



Why?

I would prefer her to stay roughly the same age as Dick which i always thought of being in his late 20s early 30s.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

Slice said:


> Why?
> 
> I would prefer her to stay roughly the same age as Dick which i always thought of being in his late 20s early 30s.



She should be older than Dick, actually. Five or six years if I'm not mistaken.

But if she's going to be in her thirties, the Bat_girl_ name is a little ridiculous.

Yeah, I know, Powergirl is also a woman. But still...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2011)

Slice said:


> Why?
> 
> I would prefer her to stay roughly the same age as Dick which i always thought of being in his late 20s early 30s.



She actually older than dick, it was mentioned in Birds of Prey, she was well into her teens by the time Dick came around I believe.


----------



## Slice (Jun 7, 2011)

"Roughly the same" includes a few years older.

Even then, lets say he's 28 and she 32 - that only further shows his taste in women.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

Dick doesn't care about age, he cares about the hair. 

Which is why the Jason Todd book should be renamed Dick Grayson's wet dream.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 7, 2011)

Plus, BG training and growing up under Batman/BW's watch strengthens the subordinate position the Batgirl name implies.

Carrying that sort of baggage well into her twenties/thirties feels so wrong.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> Plus, BG training and growing up under Batman/BW's watch strengthens the subordinate position the Batgirl name implies.
> 
> Carrying that sort of baggage well into her twenties/thirties feels so wrong.



I would have actually given her the Batwoman name, if DC still wasn't trying to get Kate Kane off the ground again.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 7, 2011)

> *DC Comics embraces its dark side.*
> 
> On the 40th anniversary of the character’s creation, the New York Times bestselling writer of AMERICAN VAMPIRE, Scott Snyder, teams up with Yannick Paquette (BATMAN, INCORPORATED) to bring horror back to the DC Universe in SWAMP THING #1. For years, one man served against his will as the avatar of nature. And while he may have been freed of the monster, he’s about to learn the monster will never truly let go of him.
> 
> ...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2011)

Hmm Frankenstein, Demon and Justic League Dark i'll be checking out probably...though I wish JLD was called something else entirely. Might check out Swamp Thing as well

The others...i'm not interested in.


----------



## Thor (Jun 7, 2011)

I really like what DC is doing with their reboots, I'll be dropping some Marvel books and investing into some of this. It's a totally ingenious idea, and will totally suck new readers in. Who gives a shit about old readers? they'll buy it regardless.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 7, 2011)

VAMPIRE #1 JUST WHAT WE ALL SECRETLY DESIRED

yes its sarcasm

Some of those sound pretty cool. I almost passed up even checking out the Demon solicit but the fact that cornell's writing it... IDK. I can't possibly see myself caring about Etrigan, but... cornell!


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 7, 2011)

Big fan of Constantine and Shade, but I'm highly skeptical of this JLD. Don't think the run will be satisfactory. 

I've avoided Swamp Thing since Alan Moore's departure from it, not really looking forward to it.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 7, 2011)

If you stopped with Moore then you missed one of the best Swamp Thing issues.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 7, 2011)

What's with all the good writers on books no one will buy




> I can't possibly see myself caring about Etrigan, but... cornell!


I can tolerate most of your petesing but this was Bender level posting before you did the 180 at the end


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 7, 2011)

I didn't completely stop, what issue are you referring to by the way?


----------



## Taleran (Jun 7, 2011)

Its by Rick Veitch he lands on Apokolips and teaches Darkseid the meaning of love. (not making this up)


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 7, 2011)

Sounds interesting, I will look it up. 

Cheers.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 7, 2011)

*JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK* is the best they could imagine... 

So we have 3 Justice League books JL, JLI, JLD


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2011)

JLD would be better off as a relaunch of the Shadowpact book in my opinion...the name itself  is stupid and honestly the group when I think about it could make a good home for Raven to be.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 7, 2011)

> Heidi MacDonald reports that DC Comics Co-Publishers Dan DiDio and Jim Lee sent a memo to creators working on titles for the “New DCU” relaunch requiring them to have three issues completed by Aug. 31, “no exceptions.” “If that criterion cannot be met,” the memo states, “we’ve instructed Editorial to begin work at that time on material that will be able to meet the deadlines for the series.”





Now *that* is interesting.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 7, 2011)

illmatic said:


> *JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK* is the best they could imagine...
> 
> So we have 3 Justice League books JL, JLI, JLD



Probably more about the JL name helping sell the comic.


----------



## Cromer (Jun 7, 2011)

Why isn't Bryan Miller on anything?

And can some one tell me WHY Roberson seems to be so popular? I mean, sure, 'Grounded' wasn't his fault, but 'Starborn' is the only Boom! title I've dropped in the past 6 months simply because of his stilted cliche writing.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

Cromer said:


> *Why isn't Bryan Miller on anything?*
> 
> And can some one tell me WHY Roberson seems to be so popular? I mean, sure, 'Grounded' wasn't his fault, but 'Starborn' is the only Boom! title I've dropped in the past 6 months simply because of his stilted cliche writing.



Because that would make sense.


----------



## Penance (Jun 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Because that would make sense.



^.......


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 7, 2011)

God, I laughed my ass off at seeing _I, Vampire_. If you've ever read the kind-of-old Dr. Thirteen miniseries which included a bunch of characters outcast from continuity, you'll understand why. And I like that DC is doing what I always hoped it would do in giving its Supernatural side a real push. Hopefully people will get behind it.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2011)

It be nice if we could see Captain Marvel getting a relaunch as well, sine DC is finally starting to look at they're mystic heros again.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 7, 2011)

Pretty sure the S!H!A!Z!A!M! is crossing over from Flashpoint to be the new defacto Captain Marvel.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 7, 2011)

I haven't seen any announcement for any post-flashpoint S!H!A!Z!A!M! plans

EDIT: I recall _DC's Executive Editor_ said S!H!A!Z!A!M! was one of the "heroes" to keep an eye on during the length of Flashpoint


----------



## Parallax (Jun 7, 2011)

Hey I liked some of those solicits, I may just check those out.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 7, 2011)

Having Paul Cornell on the Etrigan book gives me an _MI-13_ vibe.


----------



## neodragzero (Jun 7, 2011)

> Swamp Thing will be written by American Vampire scribe Scott Snyder with art by Yanick Paquette (Batman Incorporated):
> 
> For years, one man served against his will as the avatar of nature. And while he may have been freed of the monster, he's about to learn the monster will never truly let go of him.



...The fuck? I can imagine Alan Moore tearing his hair out if he ever saw that.


----------



## Glued (Jun 7, 2011)

I hope they finally get the origins of Aquaman, Hawkman and Donna Troi finally solidified.

Now those three have some seriously convoluted origins.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 7, 2011)

I just hope they pick a consistent direction. This is less a problem for Hawkman, but Aquaman and Donna Troi seem to have huge changes which everyone forgets about. Anyone remember New Cronus? Anyone remember the last time that was brought up? Oh, and the fact that Donna is supposed to be the keeper of the history of the Multiverse? I mean, fuck. And Aquaman is even worse for this.

But yeah, all three of these characters have been jello for a while. They need some sort of concrete origin and heading so that they don't fall victim to the next big crisis giving them a new, "important" spot which is forgotten not long afterwards.


----------



## Glued (Jun 7, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I just hope they pick a consistent direction. This is less a problem for Hawkman, but Aquaman and Donna Troi seem to have huge changes which everyone forgets about. Anyone remember New Cronus? Anyone remember the last time that was brought up? Oh, and the fact that Donna is supposed to be the keeper of the history of the Multiverse? I mean, fuck. And Aquaman is even worse for this.
> 
> But yeah, all three of these characters have been jello for a while. They need some sort of concrete origin and heading so that they don't fall victim to the next big crisis giving them a new, "important" spot which is forgotten not long afterwards.



I actually liked Aquaman's reboot during the 90s where Aquaman was the bastard son of wizard and was caste out into the sea. Having Thomas Curry as his biological father again is just...damn. None of the 90s makes sense if you make Thomas Curry his biological father. Then you have the Artie Joe shit and other stuff.

Hawkman. They retconned his origin in Rann-Thanagar Holy war. They retconned it again during brightest day. Between Thanagar and Egyptian royalty, I just wished they'd make up their minds already. How many times has it been retconned, seriously.

As for Donna Troi, doesn't she have like 4 different origin stories.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 7, 2011)

Donna Troy. Donna Troy. Donna Troy.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 8, 2011)

It's more like six, two of which of were all about condensing previous versions into one.

I don't know.  It seems like they don't want Donna to be a 'me too' character, but they can't get away from the Wonder Woman bit for whatever reason, and that's even though that role will never be open to her.  

Even with WW and the Amazons being totally reworked, I doubt they'll come up with something for Donna that's totally separate from them.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2011)

probably because she LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE WONDER WOMAN.

She's wonder woman's identical sister who married marv wolfman. I honestly wouldn't be surprised or sad if they just gave up and erased her.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 8, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Donna Troy. Donna Troy. Donna Troy.



Troy, Troia... sometimes I combine the two.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2011)

in another wtf move by DC, Northlanders is being canceled- ending with issue 50. And Brian Wood was not given any new books for the relaunch.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 8, 2011)

After the decent announcements of yesterday today is KINDA ODD.




> A Legion Divided
> 
> Following the announcements of new first issues starring many DC’s legendary characters, we are releasing news of first issues for several of DC’s teenage heroes and young superteams.
> 
> ...




I did not think it would be possible for a Teen Titans comic to be LESS APPEALING and then THAT


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2011)

Static! 

*still laughing at the Teen Titans one*


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 8, 2011)

What. the fuck.

That is the most retarded conceivable design for the Titans. What the shit have they done to Conner? They all look like they took Liefeld designs and just removed all the pouches. God dammit.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 8, 2011)

That is because Tim Drake stole all his pouches.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 8, 2011)

Taleran said:


> That is because Tim Drake stole all his pouches.





tenchar


----------



## Parallax (Jun 8, 2011)

I wanna see how WW reacts to this and Hawk and Dove

poor bastard


----------



## Taleran (Jun 8, 2011)

Like that is somehow more 90s than Uncanny X-Force right now a book taking place in the AGE OF APOCALYPSE starring Deadpool, Wolverine and DEATHLOK


----------



## Parallax (Jun 8, 2011)

Thanks for waking me up to this Taleran, made my day


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 8, 2011)

Its too bad about Hawk and Dove. I'd be interested in the book if it wasn't for Liefeld.

And although the character designs are iffy, I'm glad to see 2 Legion books. I was beginning to think there would be none.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2011)

I didnt really say it yesterday but I was actually really impressed with their 'Dark' line-up. 

This is hilarious though. Also, disappointing. Combining a bunch of things that I'd normally like with shit I do not want- Sterling Gates with fucking Liefeld, Nicieza and Pete Woods on some Legion book, and Tim Drake with wtfisgoingonwithhisfriendsholyshit

Also, Legion 4boot, lol.

ALSO static's costume is really... overdesigned. What is he riding? Just give him a metal disc damn.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2011)

That looks so modern, guys.

I'm actually hearing the intro of the X-Men cartoon in my head. It's that edgy.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I didnt really say it yesterday but I was actually really impressed with their 'Dark' line-up.


Speaking of which, apparently the raven haired chick under Deadman on that cover is Zatanna. She's moved the fishnet stockings from her legs to her arms.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2011)

Oh and just to really upset WW- I wonder if we're looking at Wally West there as Kid Flash


----------



## Bender (Jun 8, 2011)




----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 8, 2011)

Bender said:


>



I didnt even see Connor in there until you guys mentioned him


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2011)

But how can you miss the Superman symbol taped to his back like a kick me sign? Or the Superman bar code tattoo?


----------



## Penance (Jun 8, 2011)

Bender said:


>



EEEEEEEWWWWWW, Tim and Conner.  the 90's called-they want their suckage back...


----------



## Bender (Jun 8, 2011)

^

That is the biggest lulz of fail for Connor's new design.

Tim looks like a dark haired version fucking Vulture from Spidey comics.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 8, 2011)

OH GOD IT BURNS!


----------



## Bender (Jun 8, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> OH GOD IT BURNS!



And here's more news to turn your day to crap:



> Robin being "forced to step out from behind his keyboard" it seems likely that a continuity reboot for the hero will be part and parcel of his leading a team that includes "belligerent powerhouse thief known as Wonder Girl and a hyperactive speedster calling himself Kid Flash." Booth's cover also reveals the involvement of Superboy in the series.



I'm *this* closing the book on DC comics.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 8, 2011)

The Teen Titans look drastically different. They kinda look like they popped out of of X-Men comic


----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> But how can you miss the Superman symbol taped to his back like a kick me sign? Or the Superman bar code tattoo?



I dont even know man. I dont even know 

And whats up with female Smythe on the ground


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2011)

There's supposed to be 7 members right? Man I hope the last one is Aqualad, with the blond dyed hair from the cartoon, not enough costumes with the colors red, yellow and black yet.


----------



## lucky (Jun 8, 2011)

k yeah, conner looks like a tool.  but i think wonder girl and flash look pretty cool!


----------



## illmatic (Jun 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Oh and just to really upset WW- I wonder if we're looking at Wally West there as Kid Flash



 I had just assumed it was bart.


----------



## Bender (Jun 8, 2011)

illmatic said:


> The Teen Titans look drastically different. They kinda look like they popped out of of X-Men comic



My exact thoughts.

Now?


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2011)

Seeing this I'm kinda happy that Cass and Steph are MIA now.


----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 8, 2011)

The sad thing is the newbie's will probably eat this shit up.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> There's supposed to be 7 members right? Man I hope the last one is Aqualad, with the blond dyed hair from the cartoon, not enough costumes with the colors red, yellow and black yet.



Look at the bottom right corner of the cover. The 7th member is way in the background there. Some kind of triplicate girl female thing.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 8, 2011)

"Jim Lee is clearly holding up the end of some secret pact that he made with a bunch of guys about 15 years ago or so."


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> Look at the bottom right corner of the cover. The 7th member is way in the background there. Some kind of triplicate girl female thing.



oh well, thank god she's wearing black/grey and yellow!

I cannot understand this... I'd heard they were planning to push diversity with the teen titans line up and thought "well ok duh how hard can that be, the young heroes are already pretty diverse". But do we get aqualad, aquagirl, static, traci 13, blue beetle or that new solstice character? NOPE. we get some kind of witchblade reject.


And then they make it the only book with Tim Drake, those motherfuckers.


----------



## Slice (Jun 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> we get some kind of witchblade reject.



Is she pre existing? I dont think i have ever seen her before.

And horrible cover is horrible


----------



## Castiel (Jun 8, 2011)

oh god I almost crapped myself from the laughter at the TT cover

oh jesus





> "Jim Lee is clearly holding up the end of some secret pact that he made with a bunch of guys about 15 years ago or so."


This makes too much sense to not be the case


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 8, 2011)

The artwork and covers I have seen so far are hit or miss.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 8, 2011)




----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 8, 2011)

... Jesus fuck. Just... fuck. I actually don't mind the Robin outfit too much (The design on the wings reminds me of Nightwing a little bit)... but what in God's name is going on with the rest of the fucking team there?! FUCK.

I was hoping they would do something with Teen Titans. This was not what I was hoping for.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> oh well, thank god she's wearing black/grey and yellow!
> 
> I cannot understand this... I'd heard they were planning to push diversity with the teen titans line up and thought "well ok duh how hard can that be, the young heroes are already pretty diverse". But do we get aqualad, aquagirl, static, traci 13, blue beetle or that new solstice character? NOPE. we get some kind of witchblade reject.



Well Static has his own book, and BB is in JLI right? Hopefully aqualad/girl get some spotlight in the aquaman book, and traci gets some stuff in the other magic books.

I'd love a book with BB and Traci on the same team though, they were a fun couple.


> And then they make it the only book with Tim Drake, those motherfuckers.



Yea, obviously I'm pretty pissed at the cancellation of Red Robin. It wasn't amazing, but it wasn't bad either and it consistently sold decent.

As a consolation they could at least have put Marcus To on teen titans. He'd be better than this guy.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 8, 2011)

Okay, now that I've.... settled... the Teen Titans thing honestly feels like the most drastic change we've had so far. Barbara going to Batgirl, while kind of a big change, could be done in a way which would in keep with continuity.

These Titans, however, are a completely new monster. Outside of Robin, we have a Cassie who is a thief and looks like she is wearing Donna Troy's costume. Kid Flash looks like he has red hair, which seems to indicate that it's Wally to me, but Bart has been drawn similarly. I've heard rumors that the insect queen there is _Terra_ (MOTHER OF GOD). I have no clue who the background female in black is, though it _looks_ like Starfire. Maybe it's supposed to be Raven, though. And then you have mystery people in the background which reminds me of Empress. I have no clue what to make of Superboy, other than that it looks like they are running with the _Young Justice_ angle of a recent clone (complete with barcode and makeshift costume).

DC better give some more fucking details here. This is the first thing I've really, _really_ been pissed about, so they need to give me some fucking answers about this.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 8, 2011)

> Is she pre existing? I dont think i have ever seen her before.


apparently she is a preexisting wildstorm character


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2011)

lol the preview of Red Robin 24.

Didn't they learn with Nightwing? Apparenly not.



Guy Gardner said:


> Okay, now that I've.... settled... the Teen Titans thing honestly feels like the most drastic change we've had so far. Barbara going to Batgirl, while kind of a big change, could be done in a way which would in keep with continuity.
> 
> These Titans, however, are a completely new monster. Outside of Robin, we have a Cassie who is a thief and looks like she is wearing Donna Troy's costume. Kid Flash looks like he has red hair, which seems to indicate that it's Wally to me, but Bart has been drawn similarly. I've heard rumors that the insect queen there is _Terra_ (MOTHER OF GOD). I have no clue who the background female in black is, though it _looks_ like Starfire. Maybe it's supposed to be Raven, though. And then you have mystery people in the background which reminds me of Empress. I have no clue what to make of Superboy, other than that it looks like they are running with the _Young Justice_ angle of a recent clone (complete with barcode and makeshift costume).
> 
> DC better give some more fucking details here. This is the first thing I've really, _really_ been pissed about, so they need to give me some fucking answers about this.



But this is so edgy and modern!

In other news, there's an with Scott Lobdell, the writer of RED HOOD & the OUTLAWS. Only Bat book I'm going to check, to be honest.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 8, 2011)

Apparently Bart is still Kid Flash.

Thank God.

And I can't remember the last thing I read which was written by Scott Lobdell. He's writing Teen Titans as well, but can someone give me an idea of how good he is?

Newsarama has some good information . Interestingly enough, apparently Static is now a New York City superhero. Any Milestone fans want to chime in on that?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 8, 2011)

Honestly im cautiously optimistic about the writing, it's the art that gives me that OH GOD KILL IT WITH FIRE feeling.

.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 8, 2011)

Jesus christ, that cover for Titans, I don't even know what to say about it. the only thing they're missing is massive guns and giant shoulder pads. The cover is so fucking hilarious, that i'm picking up the issue just to laugh at it.

Tim looks like he saw Falcon's suit and decided he wanted to fuse it with Vulture's

Whose the Witchblade reject by the way...and is that Terra in the back or something.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 8, 2011)

I'd heard the Witchblade ripoff _was_ Terra, but that might just be a rumor. I still think Tim's costume is really nice (Better than the Red Robin getup, while paying homage to both Nightwing and the Robin costume itself). And the actual quality of the art doesn't look too bad... it's just some of the costume choices _baffle_ me, and the possible continuity changes worry me.


----------



## Penance (Jun 8, 2011)

I thought the last Red Robin costume suited him more.  Also, I was more excited for Felicia Henderson's pending Static run.  (Who's actually doing the art for it, anyway?  If it's actually Grant, then I'm in... )


----------



## Parallax (Jun 8, 2011)

No that Robin costume actually really sucks

man it sure does suck to be a Tim Drake fan right now hahahahahah


----------



## Parallax (Jun 8, 2011)

It sure is great not being one cause this is hysterical


----------



## Castiel (Jun 8, 2011)

henderson isn't doing it.  Rozum and McDaniel are


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 8, 2011)

:rofl                                  .


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 8, 2011)

Parallax said:


> No that Robin costume actually really sucks
> 
> man it sure does suck to be a Tim Drake fan right now hahahahahah





Parallax said:


> It sure is great not being one cause this is hysterical



You don't need to rub it in


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2011)

Bart, baby, what have they done to you?


----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 8, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Bart, baby, what have they done to you?



Everytime I see a new Teen Titans picture I hate the whole Reboot more and more.


----------



## Penance (Jun 8, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> Everytime I see a new Teen Titans picture I hate the whole Reboot more and more.



Same...


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 8, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Bart, baby, what have they done to you?



Superboy looks like a chauffeur for a gay bar.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 8, 2011)

STERLING GATES.

writing Hawk and Dove?

ART BY ROB LIEFIELD?!

. . . I feel sorry for Gates.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 8, 2011)

After the gut-punch which was the Teen Titans cover, the Liefield announcement is just kind of funny. There's been a lot that I've liked (mostly because DC has bored me to death with most of their series and they need to give an actual shakeup to the universe), but that... Titans announcement... ouch. I guess I'll use the extra money to buy an extra copy of JL Dark.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 8, 2011)

late but noticed people talking about Diana/Donna Troy

you guys remember Troy was on the JLI cover right


also I hope August General in Iron is a regular in JLI


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2011)

Anybody knows what will happen to the West family?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 8, 2011)

No clue. I'd wager they'll keep his marriage, but I'm not sure what state the twins would be in. They were never particularly well-implemented, but I'd chalk that up to poor direction on Flash books ever since _Infinite Crisis_. I'd wager they'd keep them, but I'm no longer sure of anything right now.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2011)

Shame, I like the twins :/


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2011)

Castiel said:


> late but noticed people talking about Diana/Donna Troy
> 
> you guys remember Troy was on the JLI cover right
> 
> ...



thats not donna


----------



## Castiel (Jun 8, 2011)

Then who is it


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2011)

no idea but there was an interview about JLI where jurgens said its not donna or wonder woman

I thought maybe black canary but black canary in BoP looks a bit different.


----------



## MrChubz (Jun 8, 2011)

I was looking forward to Teen Titans a lot. I still am but the costumes will take me a while to get over.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 9, 2011)

Castiel said:


> Then who is it



I'm pretty sure she's Gypsy.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 9, 2011)

> Batman Beyond writer Adam Beechen tweeted today that we?re going to get a Batman Beyond #1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 When will the hurting stop?


----------



## Taleran (Jun 9, 2011)

Today's have some VERY unexpected books.



> *Welcome To The Edge*
> 
> 
> Stormwatch is a dangerous super human strike force whose existence is kept secret from the world. Jack Hawksmoor and the rest of the crew look to recruit two of the deadliest super humans on the planet: Midnighter and Apollo. And if they say no? Perhaps the Martian Manhunter can change their minds. Featuring a surprising new roster, STORMWATCH #1 will be written by the critically-acclaimed Paul Cornell (Superman: The Black Ring, “Dr. Who”) and illustrated by Miguel Sepulveda.
> ...




DiDio kills the only book here I am interested out of the gate by being a part of it.


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2011)

I was never all that interested in Deathstroke but wow....he looks even stupider than Tim does.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

sweet soul cal sword, slade

once again, cornell means i'm interested in stormwatch.

not many titles left to announce


----------



## Parallax (Jun 9, 2011)

I like the concepts of a lot of these

but the teams are really underwhelming

I'll be getting Stormwatch for sure though


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 9, 2011)

I like most of the new designs, and the general directions seems good.

I can't help comparing it to marvel though. Like the blackhawks remind me of shield/commaandos. I'm new to comics and I prefer marvel over dc because it seems like it's more modern and realistic. Now dc seems to be doing the same so I'm hoping it will be good.

Mst of the costumes are pretty good  in my opinion though. Although there are a few which seems very strange, like superboy.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

leaked covers


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

I really do not get DC. 

"Lets convince new readers that everything is modern (or 90s) and superman is cool and young and hip!"

and then they put Perez on Superman.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 9, 2011)

Good job on the leaks petes


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 9, 2011)

So all the Robins get their books, after all.

Except the girl.

Loving your diversity, DC. 



Petes12 said:


> I really do not get DC.
> 
> "Lets convince new readers that everything is modern (or 90s) and superman is cool and young and hip!"
> 
> and then they put Perez on Superman.



Don't forget about Jim "Love the 90s" Lee designing the suits.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 9, 2011)

Huh it looks like DC really is trying to integrate Wildstorm completely into the main universe...Makes me wonder which other Wildstorm characters will be returning...

Also am I the only one doing the Prime voice for that Superman cover...


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 9, 2011)

So is Kara wearing invisible pants?


----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 9, 2011)

Superman looks dumb without the red underwear.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

its really the other stuff that hurts the design- the kind of armor look. also, just gonna say it again, perez is not the right artist for this.


----------



## lucky (Jun 9, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> Superman looks dumb without the red underwear.



true say.  superman's costume is wayyyy too classic to change. i can't believe i'm saying this, but the red speedo has to stay.


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2011)

^

Supes looks like he's from the future without the undies. Ya know like The JLA future issue.


----------



## Slice (Jun 9, 2011)

Supergirl looks like a combination of Supergirl and Powergirl.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 9, 2011)

Maybe they merged them 


Wouldn't put it past them.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 9, 2011)

That actually makes a ton of sense in a reboot Universe. Power Girl & Super Girl are the same person from different universes.


----------



## Slice (Jun 9, 2011)

I prefer Power Girl though - for obvious reasons


*Spoiler*: __ 



shes older


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 9, 2011)

J'onn in Stormwatch?

Oh, yes.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 9, 2011)

Supergirl's costume is great, if only for getting rid of the damned skirt. The only reason they kept the damn thing around was for the blatant up-skirt shot in every damn issue. This _does_ look a lot more like Power Girl's outfit (Amanda Conner's version, not the super-thin one everyone else does) and it makes her look a helluva lot more mature. Also think the Cape-Collar looks nice.

Superman really, really looks like Prime there, probably because Perez is making him look younger (a bit too young, if you ask me). The lack of red undies is probably more forgivable than the horrible "armored boots" he's wearing. They just look very, very out-of-place and throw me off. They need a little more red in the costume.

Man, Deathstroke took a fucking beating in the wardrobe department. I liked his old costume; iconic, dark, and threatening. It just looked badass. I don't like the ornate armor approach, as it doesn't seem like something he'd do (He's down to business).

Interested in these WildDC titles. Stormwatch, especially. I wonder if this means Apollo and Midnighter were created by Cadmus, or maybe under the direction of Waller? Nice to see J'onn back, and he'll do well with Jack (Great character to save!). I hope they keep Apollo and Midnighter gay. Then again, if they aren't why even bring them over?

I'm not instantly interested in the military comics, but apparently Blackhawks is being done by the guy who did GI Joe. They better give respect to the old 'Hawks in the comic, though. HAWKAH!

Edit: Oh yeah, that JLI girl is almost certainly Gypsy. I'll point out that she just made an appearance in Booster's Flashpoint crossover, too.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

funny, everyone else is bothered by deathstroke's new look but I didnt really mind it.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 9, 2011)

I don't mind it either, TBH.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 9, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> funny, everyone else is bothered by deathstroke's new look but I didnt really mind it.



Eh, it's personal preference. Again, I like Tim Drake's new costume quite a bit over the Red Robin costume, but I _know_ people disagree there. Deathstroke, to me, looks better with really simple and streamlined stuff. This is just too "armor-y" and "ornamented" for my tastes.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 9, 2011)

Pretty much agree with Guy for the most part, with the exception of Deathstroke, I don't really mind the change that much. 

with Superman though the "This isn't my world!" line immediantly popped into my head, and making Supes look Prime probably isn't a good idea.

Liking Supergirl's new look as well.


----------



## Slice (Jun 9, 2011)

I'd like to see another picture / pose from Deathstroke.
I cant decide whether i like it or not yet.

And the more mature costume works for Supergirl, while everyone seems to be de-aged she seemingly got a bit older.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 9, 2011)

> Slice said:
> 
> 
> > Supergirl looks like a combination of Supergirl and Powergirl.
> ...


Superpowerful Girl.


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Eh, it's personal preference. Again, I like Tim Drake's new costume quite a bit over the Red Robin costume, but I _know_ people disagree there. Deathstroke, to me, looks better with really simple and streamlined stuff. This is just too "armor-y" and "ornamented" for my tastes.



How can you dislike Tim Drake's Red Robin costume?

Regarding, Deathstroke, it's the bloody spam of the color red for s crapload of the characters that's chapping my hide. Deathstroke was menacing enough without that touch.


----------



## MrChubz (Jun 9, 2011)

Supes is surprisingly lacking without the red undies.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 9, 2011)

Bender said:


> How can you dislike Tim Drake's Red Robin costume?



I actually really like it. I know that other people don't, though. Personally, I think it's a neat sort of "missing link" between what I'd consider the old Robin costume and the Nightwing costume.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2011)

Strangeness of the Wildstorm integration aside, with Cornell on the book I'm definitely interested in Stormwatch.

Though Stormwatch has always been one of my favorite Wildstorm books (I actually personally preferred Ellis' Stormwatch to his Authority )


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I actually really like it. I know that other people don't, though. Personally, I think it's a neat sort of "missing link" between what I'd consider the old Robin costume and the Nightwing costume.



i think  bender means the current look not the upcoming one.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 9, 2011)

Castiel said:


> Strangeness of the Wildstorm integration aside, with Cornell on the book I'm definitely interested in Stormwatch.
> 
> Though Stormwatch has always been one of my favorite Wildstorm books (I actually personally preferred Ellis' Stormwatch to his Authority )



Ellis' Wildstorm stuff was pretty fucking awesome.

Also, _*EPIPHANY!!!!*_ I didn't realize that they were integrating Wildstorm into the DCU at the time, but I just realized that the unknown girl in the Birds of Prey cover might be Rose Tattoo.


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I actually really like it. I know that other people don't, though. Personally, I think it's a neat sort of "missing link" between what I'd consider the old Robin costume and the Nightwing costume.



The only argument that I have heard regarding dislike for the Red Robin costume is this: "Tim's head look like a condom" (naw, thats Kick-Ass) "He looks like Dr. Mid-Nite" (And when's the last time Midnite put any of his costume's gadgets or abilities other then medical-wise?). It's quite tedious criticism IMO. Tim in the role of Red Robin as you said was like the absent Nightwing in Dick's place. 

I try to like this costume I really do but it's just so repulsive and juvenile. The "Teen Titans" crew looks like the scrapped idea of "New Mutants".


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 9, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i think  bender means the current look not the upcoming one.



Oh, sorry. I just never liked it: I don't think the type of cowl looks good on younger characters and it just doesn't come off as something which befits a "Robin". For example, Nightwing's costume comes off as something a Robin would wear, especially him: It's a sort of circus leotard which still uses the old domino mask. 

Red Robin's costume just looks "Meh" on Tim, especially with his height. I suppose I just don't think that sort of mask works for smaller characters (it always makes me think I'm looking at a _really_ short adult), and it just never came off quite right for me on him (I think it would have worked better on Jason, but I'm still not a huge fan of the costume nowadays). Maybe I'm crazy, but I like the balance between "traditional Robin" and individuality that the new one has.

Again, though, this is personal preference.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

its all been downhill from the OYL costume 

I didnt like the cowl either. I also didnt like the cape but I dont like the wings either.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2011)

All-Star Westerns is a must buy for me.  Jonah Hex has been a pretty decent book, had it's ups and downs but still.  But now Moritat on art 

also this whole Gotham City stuff is pretty interesting.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2011)

Tony Bedard and Ig Guara (next week's Grodd one-shot)


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

There's a suicide squad comic too.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2011)

so with those two and the assumed 4 superbooks (Superman, Action, Supergirl/boy) that's 52


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2011)

@ Guy Gardener 

The Red Robin costume is trash but the new one is okay? 

I doubt Tim would even think of ever wearing something like the new costume he's going to be given come September. Firstly, it's way too revealing and not even something to consider while scouring the streets of Gotham. 

The reason his Red Robin costume fits in opinion is cuz he was going outside the bat-family; seeing as he didn't want to be apart of it so long as Damian was around. You know similar to how Dick believed he was living in Bruce's shadow the longer he continued to reside in Gotham (or something to that effect). 



> For example, Nightwing's costume comes off as something a Robin would wear, especially him: It's a sort of circus leotard which still uses the old domino mask.



Eh? It's only something a Robin would wear? You mean something only a circus performer like Dick would wear because it matches him and his dare devil acrobatic skills.



> its all been downhill from the OYL costume




Ever think you're being a bit too nitpicky in regards to Tim's current Red Robin costume?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

nope  **

i really liked his OYL costume. that alex ross design is trash, but at least marcus to changed it some to make it look decent.


----------



## Rasendori (Jun 9, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> Superboy looks like a chauffeur for a gay bar.



It's sad but this was the *PERFECT* analogy.


----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 9, 2011)

I agree Superman, I agree. Im glad you guys are so optimistic about this. Personally, I think ill read a little Batman and give some of the other stuff a try but honestly Im trying to fight the gut instinct to just drop DC altogether.


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i really liked his OYL costume.



Agreed


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 9, 2011)

Castiel said:


> Tony Bedard and Ig Guara (next week's Grodd one-shot)



Fuck yes. 



Castiel said:


> so with those two and the assumed 4 superbooks (Superman, Action, Supergirl/boy) that's 52







Petes12 said:


> nope  **
> 
> i really liked his OYL costume. that alex ross design is trash, but at least marcus to changed it some to make it look decent.



Marcus To makes everything look better.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 9, 2011)

Bender said:


> @ Guy Gardener
> 
> The Red Robin costume is trash but the new one is okay?



Did I ever call it trash? No? Okay, don't put fucking words in my mouth. I was very specific that it's my preference, and nothing more. Chill.



> I doubt Tim would even think of ever wearing something like the new costume he's going to be given come September. Firstly, it's way too revealing and not even something to consider while scouring the streets of Gotham.



Uh, this is the same guy who fought with a red shirt, red pants, and yellow on the inside of his cape. I don't think this is a huge change; he's probably actually wearing less red than he normally would.

Dick got around fine in his green/yellow/red costume just fine: generally speaking, when you are above someone in the shadows while they are in the light, it's difficult to see anything, no matter the color. Considering how much red light you'll get in the city (break lights, street lights, neon signs), I doubt having a bit more red than the Red Robin costume will be that much of a problem.



> The reason his Red Robin costume fits in opinion is cuz he was going outside the bat-family; seeing as he didn't want to be apart of it so long as Damian was around. You know similar to how Dick believed he was living in Bruce's shadow the longer he continued to reside in Gotham (or something to that effect).



The problem here is that the biggest changes just make him look like a smaller Batman. In all honesty, it's just adding Batman's cowl, _sans_ ears. The crossing bandoliers doesn't mean much, the leotard is now more of a soldier's tunic, and he wears black pants. That's not a huge difference. The Cape is all black now, as well.

The big changer is the costume is really the cowl, and I just don't particularly like it. I like the domino mask more; I think it works for younger characters in general. I like the look of the feathers; I'm not going to say it's unique, but I think it works for the character.



> Eh? It's only something a Robin would wear? You mean something only a circus performer like Dick would wear because it matches him and his dare devil acrobatic skills.



Kind of like I already mentioned, since I said "especially for him"?



> Ever think you're being a bit too nitpicky in regards to Tim's current Red Robin costume?



Ever think you're being a bit too defensive in regard to the Red Robin costume, especially with someone who has only ever said he was talking about his own opinion and noted that not everyone agrees with him?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

everyone _should _agree with me


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 9, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> everyone _should _agree with me



Well FUCK YOU TOO PETES!


----------



## illmatic (Jun 9, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> There's a suicide squad comic too.



I see Its not written by either John Ostrander or Gail Simone 

Harley Quinn! Deadshot! King Shark! They?re a team of death-row super villains recruited by the government to take on missions so dangerous ? they?re sheer suicide! Who will be the first to crack under the pressure? Find out in SUICIDE SQUAD #1, *written by Adam Glass* (FLASHPOINT: LEGION OF DOOM) with art by Marco Rudy (THE SHIELD).


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 9, 2011)

Similar to the Arkham City look.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 9, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> There's a suicide squad comic too.



Wow I sorta guessed that was Harley (don't know what to think about her), but I had no clue the guy on the right was Deadshot lol.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 9, 2011)

Looks like her Arkham City costume with 90% less fabric. Not very inspired by the Deadshot costume, but I can barely see it.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 9, 2011)

*52 *

52 weeks in a year.
5+2 = 7. There were 7 original Justice League members
5-2 = 3. Superman, Batman and Wonder woman are the DC Trinity 
52 is the # of multiverse

Any others ?


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 9, 2011)

No more Secret Six? Dammit


----------



## Parallax (Jun 9, 2011)

whoa you just blew my mind


----------



## Parallax (Jun 9, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> No more Secret Six? Dammit



The real outrage is no Xombi

what the fuck DC


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 9, 2011)

Alas you shall be missed Secret Six...but I'll hope for a revival of the book in a few years...assuming Catman and Ragdoll aren't completely fucked over by this reboot.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 9, 2011)

adding the 4 Superman books will make 52 if i counted correctly

where does that leave Batman Beyond?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 9, 2011)




----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 9, 2011)

Sucks for Secret Six fans, oh well.

Bring back Tim Hunter, at least an appearance in JLD.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2011)

here's a puff piece on Simone justifying Babs as Batgirl


----------



## illmatic (Jun 9, 2011)

A Secret Six Omnibus would great for the hardcore fans. 

Villains United - 6 issues
VU special - 1 issue
limited series - 6 issues
Main - 36 issues 
Birds of Prey - 4 issues
Doom Patrol - 1 issue
Suicide Squad #67 - ???

53 issues


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2011)

also the 6 issue mini and the VU one-shot

but yeah I'd hit that


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 9, 2011)

I hope there is news of Majestic soon, he has already conversed with DC characters before and was in their universe.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 9, 2011)

illmatic said:


> A Secret Six Omnibus would great for the hardcore fans.
> 
> Villains United - 6 issues
> Main - 36 issues
> ...



I'd certainly buy it...


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 9, 2011)

Castiel said:


> here's a puff piece on Simone justifying Babs as Batgirl



**


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 9, 2011)

Yeah, Gail's all over the place.  I lol'd at the Star Trek bit.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 9, 2011)

Besides that chin spike and Jack looking like a balding Apollo, I think I might actually read Stormwatch.

I wanted J'onn and Jack on the same team for a long time, and since there's separation from the rest of the universe, I don't think the major problems of integration will be too difficult to avoid.

J'onn is really powerful, so hopefully they don't weaken him or take away his wide array of powers (which many writers do when he's in a fight with someone in the same class) to put him on the same level as his team.

Same problem with Maj, he's more powerful than Superman, more intelligent, better warrior, the visibility/presence he has had in the WSU will likely not apply in the DCU, and they will probably make him out to be weaker than Superman, even though on all accounts, he is pretty much a rich man's Superman. 

Who knows, maybe they will make him a Kryptonian and not a Kheran. Changing history is not what I am worried about honestly (for the Vertigo and WS characters).



> I think it’s not just the Stormwatch characters we all know brought into the DCU. They’ve been reimagined. They have been re-thought through and I think last year ended the characters at a good place. I think what is really interesting is that these characters are new and different, yet somewhat like the ones that readers remember from the Wildstorm days...



What I am worried about is if they sacrifice the personalities/powers/who they are for the sake of making them adequate in relation to their connection to the DCU. For the Vertigo and WS characters especially (compared to characters of other publishers), what they do and who they are extremely integral to what their characters are. 

I have been cautious about this for some time, so I really hope DC does fine with all this.


----------



## Scarecrow Red (Jun 9, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> No more Secret Six? Dammit



Shit man 

That was the only title that I was picking from DC these days


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

I was hoping she'd basically continue it as suicide squad or something, but while they're doing a suicide squad book, and it even has deadshot, it also has a really scary harley quinn and no simone :\


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 9, 2011)

J'onn looks pretty good on the Stormwatch cover. He seems to be one of few who came out for the better out of this reboot. In terms of looks, at least.

Its weird how they're altering Wildstorm characters costumes. I know they're going for the 90s Extreeeeeme!!! look, but that was already how Wildstorm costumes were.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 9, 2011)

I like J'onn's look, I don't think there has been an occurrence where I didn't like his look. 

The WS costume changes are biggest problem so far with their integration.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 9, 2011)

Lucifer, I thought that was Jack Hawksmoor too, but now I think that might be Apollo. It would make sense to have him on the cover with Midnighter, rather than Jack. The symbol on his chest looks more like the Apollo symbol anyways.

And fuck, I knew Secret Six wouldn't make it. Hopefully it'll be back like Batman, Inc, but I'm still amazed that series has lasted nearly as long as it has.


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Did I ever call it trash? No? Okay, don't put fucking words in my mouth. I was very specific that it's my preference, and nothing more. Chill.






> Ever think you're being a bit too defensive in regard to the Red Robin costume, especially with someone who has only ever said he was talking about his own opinion and noted that not everyone agrees with him?



Yeah, I suppose so; my bad about overreacting.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 9, 2011)

Yeah, I am starting to think that it's Apollo too.

They better not make Midnighter and Apollo straight.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 9, 2011)

Yeah, they better keep Midnighter and Apollo a couple. Hell, I would love it if they brought Jenny Quantum back too. I always liked Midnighter and Apollo playing daddy to Jenny.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 9, 2011)

I love Jenny, but she's not coming back.

Hopefully we have a new Doctor.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

cornell said they're still gay


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 9, 2011)

That's good, so it's just the costumes then.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 9, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> I love Jenny, but she's not coming back.


Damn.



> Hopefully we have a new Doctor.


Hopefully, he's just as bonkers as the last Doctor. 



Petes12 said:


> cornell said they're still gay


Well, thats some good news.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 9, 2011)

@ Bender: It's cool. Reboots can get heated, especially when they fuck around with characters you like.

I don't think there would be much of a point for them to not be gay, especially when we've had series like Secret Six with a lot of LGBT stuff in it, as well as Renee Montoya. Then again, gay guys are far different than gay girls for comic book readers.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

There was no way they'd change that. I'm more wondering if they still kill people, with martian manhunter on the same team.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 9, 2011)

I recall a thread about "what if your favorite superhero was found out to be gay" thread


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 9, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> There was no way they'd change that. I'm more wondering if they still kill people, with martian manhunter on the same team.



Obviously the "BODYCOUNT~!" days are over, but I'm guessing they still will kill if necessary. This is supposed to be an "Edge" team, so maybe J'onn is a bit darker than we remember.


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## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 9, 2011)

I hope they keep the spirit of WS here, I mean Stormwatch is extreme obviously and J'onn could be doing a lot, like mind-wiping, which would be helpful for this team.

If done correctly (this is what I wanted a couple years ago when I was hoping for a J'onn-Hawksmoor team-up), J'onn can be a tremendous addition to this team. 

I haven't read a comic in a long time, but I don't imagine anything involved with J'onn was any sort of major development so I think they can make him darker, obviously not as dark as Midnighter or something though.


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 10, 2011)

Just read Simone's interview on Newsarama. Definitely needed, and I think she put a lot of interesting perspective on the whole Batgirl move. Glad she was honest with her opinions, too.

Besides some of the titles already mentioned, the biggest title not to get picked up seems to be Justice Society. I wonder what the status is on that one.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 10, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Just read Simone's interview on Newsarama. Definitely needed, and I think she put a lot of interesting perspective on the whole Batgirl move. Glad she was honest with her opinions, too.
> 
> Besides some of the titles already mentioned, the biggest title not to get picked up seems to be Justice Society. I wonder what the status is on that one.



I'm pretty sure they announced Justice Society at the start of all this, we just haven't seen a cover yet...


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## Bergelmir (Jun 10, 2011)

With all the 'first' appearances of characters, I figured they were doing away with the JSA and leaving them as 'that group back in WWII'. Or just cameos as mentors here and there, or something.


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## Parallax (Jun 10, 2011)

Liefeld somehow gets work and DC kills off Xombi

there truly is no god


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## Penance (Jun 10, 2011)

^yup........


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## Petes12 (Jun 10, 2011)

ok wont lie, i think deathstroke looks pretty cool here


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## Taleran (Jun 10, 2011)

Archie Goodwin & Dan Jurgens were prophetic


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## gabzilla (Jun 10, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Just read Simone's interview on Newsarama. Definitely needed, and I think she put a lot of interesting perspective on the whole Batgirl move. Glad she was honest with her opinions, too.
> 
> Besides some of the titles already mentioned, the biggest title not to get picked up seems to be Justice Society. I wonder what the status is on that one.



To be honest, I think she made it worse.


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## Comic Book Guy (Jun 10, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Liefeld somehow gets work and DC kills off Xombi
> 
> there truly is no god



*IN-FREAKING-DEED.*


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## LIL_M0 (Jun 10, 2011)

> Baww robot Deathstroke is lame


It's like you guys forgot his name was Deathstroke "The Terminator". Of course they were gonna give him cybernetic enhancements/armor. I'm just wondering why it took so long


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## MrChubz (Jun 10, 2011)

They probably got Liefeld because they were running out of artists to draw 52 books, not because they wanted to. Then again, I could probably draw better comics in MS Paint.


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## Petes12 (Jun 10, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> They probably got Liefeld because they were running out of artists to draw 52 books, not because they wanted to. Then again, I could probably draw better comics in MS Paint.



theres lots of artists that are oddly absent from the relaunch- marcus to, jamal igle, nguyen, jock etc.

the reasoning was I guess liefeld did some terrible hawk and dove comic back in the day and they think there'll be some nostalgia for it?


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## Petes12 (Jun 10, 2011)

Morrison's Action Comics takes place in the very early days of Superman.

Also JSA is officially OUTTA HERE

No idea what Perez's writing is like, but I wont lie I'm glad he's not drawing it.


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## Taleran (Jun 10, 2011)

Because Pete is lazy





> This September, New York Times bestselling writer Grant Morrison (ALL-STAR SUPERMAN) joins with sensational artist Rags Morales to bring you tales of The Man of Tomorrow unlike any you’ve ever read before in ACTION COMICS #1. This momentous first issue will set in motion the history of the DC Universe as Superman defends a world that doesn’t trust their first Super Hero.







> What is Superman’s startling new status quo? How does it affect his friends, loved ones and his job at The Daily Planet? Find out in SUPERMAN #1, written by legendary comics creator George Perez (CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, NEW TEEN TITANS and WONDER WOMAN) and illustrated by Jesus Merino.







> Supergirl’s got the unpredictable behavior of a teenager, the same powers as Superman and none of his affection for the people of Earth. Writers Michael Green and Mike Johnson (Smallville, SUPERMAN/BATMAN) will team up with artist Mahmud Asrar to give a new take on the teenager from Krypton in SUPERGIRL #1.







> They thought he was just a failed experiment, grown from a combination of Kryptonian and human DNA. But when the scope of his stunning powers was revealed, he became a deadly weapon. SUPERBOY #1 will be written by Scott Lobdell with art by R.B. Silva and Rob Lean.



That is it all 52 have been revealed.


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## Castiel (Jun 10, 2011)

> No idea what Perez's writing is like, but I wont lie I'm glad he's not drawing it.


His Wonder Woman run was great


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## gabzilla (Jun 10, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Because Pete is lazy



Clark what the heck are you wearing.



> That is it all 52 have been revealed.



:/


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## Taleran (Jun 10, 2011)

There are *ALOT* of current DC creators seemingly out of work right now. Which is strange considering how many people are doing 2 books.


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## LIL_M0 (Jun 10, 2011)

Grant Morrison presents: Tales of Hobo Superman.


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## Castiel (Jun 10, 2011)

Adding a poll here too out of boredome

since I can't add 52 choices used their bs labels

dark is the magic titles and such
YJ is their "teen" books
"New Justice" were their first few announcements
"Edge" was yesterday's stuff 





LIL_M0 said:


> Grant Morrison presents: Tales of Hobo Superman.



You liked his Hobo Batman in RIP


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## gabzilla (Jun 10, 2011)

Only ones I care about are BB and Static. And Jason and Kate's books.



LIL_M0 said:


> Grant Morrison presents: Tales of Hobo Superman.



Construction work Superman


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## The Pink Ninja (Jun 10, 2011)

Immigrant Labourer Superman

At least they didn't give him Rebuilting Supervision...


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## LIL_M0 (Jun 10, 2011)

Castiel said:


> You liked his Hobo Batman in RIP


Especially that scene where he beat up those guys in the alley and ran away with the shopping cart.


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## The Pink Ninja (Jun 10, 2011)

Right, almost everyone hates it when a character they like dies. Either they're so major they will pop back up again like death was a revolving door or they are a secondary character who was just killed pointlessly to make another's person's story more important. What really gets you about the latter is it so often seems like editorial fiat or a move by marketing to get some shocksploitation in.

But by resetting their personalities and wiping away, what, 25 years of history didn't the editors and marketing *just kill every DC character?*

Stephanie Brown isn't Stephanie Brown if she hasn't had her turbulent relationship with the Batfamily, at least four of whom told her to quit because she wasn't good enough. She isn't Steph if she hasn't has a good half a hundred comics developing her relationship with Tim. She isn't Steph if she never caused a gang war or got tortured and "killed" or had a teen pregnancy.

They could announce a run of her at Spoiler tomorrow or even as Batgirl but it couldn't be the same. That new girl could never slap Batman in the face then lecture him about how he's been a jerk.

I will have egg on my face if this is a fake out reboot. It may just be they're resetting the number and having reintroductions of the characters to make it seem appealing while the actual history of the characters stays. Some information seems to suggest it will be a soft reboot like that. But still, major bummer either way.

Is Barb getting healed or is she being returned to her teens with the paralysation never occuring?


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## LIL_M0 (Jun 10, 2011)

In case you missed something  

Of everything on the list, the only thing that I know I'll read is Batwoman.


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## illmatic (Jun 10, 2011)

I see Cornell compared Demon Knights to Game of Thrones in a .


> If you're a fantasy fan and have always kind of shied away from superheroes and don't know where to start, you'll find yourself in a familiar but hopefully not clich?d world here. This is the kind of fantasy I like, and it's the first time I've ever got to do this in comics. It's not built on previous sword and sorcery in comics. It's not built on Robert E. Howard, it's built on George Martin -- not that I don't think Howard's a wonderful writer.


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 10, 2011)

Only Batwoman? I have to inquire why on that one.

I think I'll probably be getting a good half of them at the start to see what they are doing. The Super-line, the Lantern-Line, and the Dark-line interest me the most. There are few I really hate, and a bunch of stuff which is sort of on the edge.


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## Glued (Jun 10, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Immigrant Labourer Superman
> 
> At least they didn't give him Rebuilting Supervision...



I've actually wondered what it would be like if Superman followed in Pa Kent's footsteps to become a Super Farmer. Using his abilities to encourage farmers to raise food naturally and treating livestock with more respect.


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 10, 2011)

See, looking at that and reading how they describe it, it sounds like Action Comics is taking place closer to the beginning of his career, but I'm not sure if the "first superhero" line is just referring to who he is or referring to the time period it takes place in. Also interesting to read that Superman is going to take more interest in social issues like his original incarnation did. FOX NEWS AHOY!


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## Glued (Jun 10, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> See, looking at that and reading how they describe it, it sounds like Action Comics is taking place closer to the beginning of his career, but I'm not sure if the "first superhero" line is just referring to who he is or referring to the time period it takes place in. Also interesting to read that Superman is going to take more interest in social issues like his original incarnation did. FOX NEWS AHOY!



You mean stopping domestic violence and protecting union workers.

I can already imagine FOX throwing a hissy fit when Superman helps union workers.


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## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Only Batwoman? I have to inquire why on that one.



the art obviously.

I gotta admit there's a lot of books I want to at least check out. There's a few from just about every 'line' that look really promising, except the young justice one.


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## illmatic (Jun 11, 2011)

its going to be over $150 if someone were to pickup all 52 issues


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## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 11, 2011)

Wally West, I am so sad.

Do you guys think that there being no JSA or any Earth-2 characters for that matter (from what I am aware of), has to do with Morrison's upcoming Multiversity? Maybe a crossover or something? Odd that there has been no news of Captain Marvel at all.

Anyway, with all 52 titles announced, the five I am looking forward to most:

- Rayner's own book (that's right DC, I win)
- JLD
- Stormwatch
- Swamp Thing
- Action Comics


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## Castiel (Jun 11, 2011)

new solicit info

now with plot details!


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## Rasendori (Jun 11, 2011)

Just to be clear, will this reboot literally reboot anything and everything?

 Like Batman inc. and all story-lines of the sort will be canned?


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## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

Rasendori said:


> Just to be clear, will this reboot literally reboot anything and everything?
> 
> Like Batman inc. and all story-lines of the sort will be canned?



no. **


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## MrChubz (Jun 11, 2011)

Superman needs to be out there beating the crap out of Lex Luthor, not helping union workers. At the very least, encouraging Lex Corp works to join a union. Actually, maybe he should start a union on Apocalypse. The Superman + Union possibilities are endless.

Edit: Who else is going to buy DC Universe Presents just for Deadman and never buy it again?


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 11, 2011)

Batman, Inc, is specifically mentioned in two of those solicits, so this younger Batman was apparently a helluva lot more proactive than the Bruce we know.

I wonder if Wally is the new Lantern that is going to be introduced in the Green Lantern book. How fucked up would it be to have a Flash with a Green Lantern ring?


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## Rasendori (Jun 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> no. **



I'm talking canon wise?


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## MrChubz (Jun 11, 2011)

It can't be much worse then giving a Daxamite a GL ring. Hell, I'm all for giving The Flash the ability to fly and survive in space.


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## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 11, 2011)

Wally should join Kyle's new team, they are already BFFs.


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## Castiel (Jun 11, 2011)

JL and AC look like full on reboots, but they seem to take place in the past.


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## MrChubz (Jun 11, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Wally should join Kyle's new team, they are already BFFs.



Another thing I'm all for. Superman and Batman could kiss the World's Finest title goodbye.


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## illmatic (Jun 11, 2011)

Timelines may be more compressed. 

Damien Wayne is still Robin, Batman, Inc., Blackest Night, etc. still happened.

So I assume parts of the DCU will seemingly be out of sync when these events are referenced since we will have a DCU that is in its 20's instead of 30's.


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## Lucifer Morningstar (Jun 11, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Another thing I'm all for. Superman and Batman could kiss the World's Finest title goodbye.


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## The Pink Ninja (Jun 11, 2011)

*Looks at full list of titles*

The only good thing I can say about this is it's nice Batwoman got her own run (Though  have doubts to her long term viability) and Wonder Woman finally has pants!

Did you need to reset the universe just for that?

I look at all these shitty titles, most of which won't make it past #12 and I wonder why any of them are preferable to BQM's run on Batgirl. We're trading decades of character development, for this?

Not sure I'll read any DC stuff for a few years until I get a consensus as to whether they have either made something of the new continuity or if they have, infact, ruined it forever. Out of the #52 there will be at least one that is an instant all time classic and I'll probably read that one. But how can the rest compare to existing lines that build on years of previously published material and character development?

Seriously, this is not just a reboot-reboot, they look lke they're even altering the origin stories of mega-icons Superman, and his iconic outfit which didn't even have anything wrong with it. What I have thought of since I saw the Superman-family covers (Apart from the Dork Age due to character design, all they lack is pockets) is Ultimate Marvel.

Seriously, why not just start an Ultimate-Marvel-esk sub-line? The whole "Slightly different outfits, grittier and edgier, de-ageing some characters back to being kids" is Ultimate Marvel all over.


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## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

Because the reason Marvel is doing so well now is they essentially took what worked from Ultimate Marvel and applied it to their main universe. 

It's not a full reboot anyway. Specifically, the batman and GL stories are essentially untouched. Word is even Barbara is getting an in story explanation for her recovery, rather than wiping out the event. 

And i think that's what they're really going for. It's not 'ultimatizing'. It's 'marvelizing'. That's why a lot of the legacies are being brushed aside- those things tend to age the characters and the universe they're set in. 

I like that aspect of it honestly. I'd be pissed if they threw away the Batman and GL stories, because those are examples of really great evolutions of their respective mythos. Hawkman though? He's just a mess with no memorable storylines, so I'm not at all mad they're essentially rebooting him.


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## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

Also I dont have faith in a lot of the creative teams but the majority of the books sound interesting from a plot standpoint.


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## Penance (Jun 11, 2011)

Grant Morrison.  So, yeah...I'm good with Action comics...


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Also I dont have faith in a lot of the creative teams but the majority of the books sound interesting from a plot standpoint.



This is probably my biggest issue. I would be more onboard with this reboot if they managed to wrangle some more creative teams, but with a few exceptions it's pretty much just a reshuffling of all the B/C grade guys they have.


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## Bender (Jun 11, 2011)

Wow....just effing wow...

Probably the rudest most unorthodox shit I've ever seen in this industry.



> Jim Lee posted on the D.C. blog about his work on the redesigns. The full text is below. Anyone getting the feeling that he put this out to deflect some of the criticism that is directed toward these horrible redesigns?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Nice, throw your colleagues under the bus Jim-boy.


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## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

lolololol classic blaze of glory

Yes how dare he share credit for the redesigns with the people that helped him redesign them!

Did it ever occur to you that he doesn't think they're bad designs?


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## Bender (Jun 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:
			
		

> Did it ever occur to you that he doesn't think they're bad designs?



It should considering how nearly everyone hates Tim's new look nor is as enthusiastic about the changes or new "female edict".


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## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

Not everyone hates tim's look, its by far the least hated of all the teen titans. Also, Brett Booth, the titans artist, did an interview where he explained how those costumes all came about, and basically almost all the fail goes back to Lobdell the writer in that case


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## Bergelmir (Jun 11, 2011)

So any guess on which books are going to tank first? I doubt they'll be able to keep 52 books running every month.


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## Slice (Jun 11, 2011)

I guess a lot of these "dark" books are going down firs. Like the one with the vampires.


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## Slice (Jun 11, 2011)

Also: Is there any news on the future of Power Girl?

One of my favourite designs of the new costumes is Supergirl and i fear when they focus on her they either retconned her older version out (again) or put her so far on the sidelines she will nowhere to be seen.


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## Bender (Jun 11, 2011)

Slice said:


> One of my favourite designs of the new costumes is Supergirl and i fear when they focus on her they either retconned her older version out (again) or put her so far on the sidelines she will nowhere to be seen.



Same here. That last look of her was far too "meh" for me. This new one is simply fabulous.

EDIT:

Yeah, I agree the dark n edgier DC books are definitely going to be the first to flop.


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## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

There is no word on Powergirl. I'm not sure if Supergirl's new costume is actually good or if its just that the art itself is good... 

And yeah I'm sure the most at risk books are dark and edge books, or like, hawk and dove. But I hope not, I like that DC's doing those.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 11, 2011)

I was thinking Captain Atom or Firestorm would be among the first, but yeah, the Dark books are likely too.

Also, I just read the solicit for the Mister Terrific book. It basically sounds like Fringe(just replace the overarching alternate universe plot for something else). Which could be pretty cool.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 11, 2011)

Hawk and Dove and some of the more edgy books are the ones most likely to get cancelled in my opinion



Slice said:


> I guess a lot of these "dark" books are going down firs. Like the one with the vampires.



See I don't understand why they're bringing back I Vampire...I mean if the main character had made some more appearence, I would understand...but the man has only made sporadic appearences since 1983...


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 11, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> *Looks at full list of titles*
> 
> The only good thing I can say about this is it's nice Batwoman got her own run (Though  have doubts to her long term viability) and Wonder Woman finally has pants!
> 
> Did you need to reset the universe just for that?



The universe got rebooted because DC needs to move while they still can. Right now, I'd argue both companies are basically subsisting on their hardcore fanbase. Marvel is doing better because 1) Superman titles are in the shitter, and those are one of DC's biggest sellers and 2) I think Marvel has a larger hardcore fanbase.

DC needs to do something to show people that comic books can work in today's market. The big thing here is not the revamp/reboot, but the huge same-day digital marketing agenda. They are revamping the line along with it to get a news-cycle so that they can actually promote their new distribution idea to a decent-sized audience.



> I look at all these shitty titles, most of which won't make it past #12 and I wonder why any of them are preferable to BQM's run on Batgirl. We're trading decades of character development, for this?



Oh, bullshit. There are plenty of good titles in that lineup. BQM's Batgirl was not the end-all be-all of comics, and I can see plenty of good stories coming out of some of these writers.



> Not sure I'll read any DC stuff for a few years until I get a consensus as to whether they have either made something of the new continuity or if they have, infact, ruined it forever. Out of the #52 there will be at least one that is an instant all time classic and I'll probably read that one. But how can the rest compare to existing lines that build on years of previously published material and character development?



I'll point out that this has happened before: Crisis on Infinite Earths. Without that, we could never have gotten all the stories we have today. In fact, that's the only comparable thing to this. It took about 25-30 years to get the big reboot then, and we've hit 25 years on the CoIE reboot now.



> Seriously, this is not just a reboot-reboot, they look lke they're even altering the origin stories of mega-icons Superman, and his iconic outfit which didn't even have anything wrong with it. What I have thought of since I saw the Superman-family covers (Apart from the Dork Age due to character design, all they lack is pockets) is Ultimate Marvel.
> 
> Seriously, why not just start an Ultimate-Marvel-esk sub-line? The whole "Slightly different outfits, grittier and edgier, de-ageing some characters back to being kids" is Ultimate Marvel all over.



Well, they've altered Superman's origin multiple times, including Birthright and Geoff Johns' most recent Secret Origins version of it. I think this makes 4 times since CoIE? Someone might correct me on that, but I think I'm right.

And a Marvel-esque sub-line wouldn't have done what DC needed. DC needs to revitalize and revamp itself; it needs to do something drastic and big, otherwise it's just going to bleed to death. The Ultimate line was good, but its success was always fairly limited. Look at it today, after it got away from its original creators: It's barely alive, and hardly enough to really make an impact on DC sales.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

After this though they need to stop writing stories in ways that force them to reboot constantly. Take the marvel approach to continuity, it works much better


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 11, 2011)

I'm wondering which titles will eventually go back to their original numbering.

For example, no way will Action Comics skip #1000.


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> After this though they need to stop writing stories in ways that force them to reboot constantly. Take the marvel approach to continuity, it works much better



It doesn't really work better as much as it works differently. Having 50+ years of continuity is daunting, which is why I was primarily a Ultimate Marvel fan when that imprint was still worth the money.


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## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> It doesn't really work better as much as it works differently. Having 50+ years of continuity is daunting, which is why I was primarily a Ultimate Marvel fan when that imprint was still worth the money.



Marvel doesnt ask you to know what happened 50 years ago though. Their stories are generally pretty accessible at the start of any given arc. 

Also knew the LBFA guys weren't done yet



They've got a good one on x-men first class too


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Marvel doesnt ask you to know what happened 50 years ago though. Their stories are generally pretty accessible at the start of any given arc.



I think it depends on which comics. For example, individual characters like Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor are generally easy to get into because each new volume could almost be considered a revamp: The characters are generally distinct from their previous incarnations while still in continuity. Same with the Avengers, since the team forms and reforms all the time under different circumstances.

And then you get things like the X-Men, which are completely tied up in their older stories or have gone so far away from their original incarnations that they are almost unrecognizable to someone who wasn't already a fan.

Edit: This was why I was doubly pissed when Ultimate X-Men started to suck, as it was the only incarnation I could get into and read with relative ease. Grr...



> Also knew the LBFA guys weren't done yet
> 
> 
> 
> They've got a good one on x-men first class too



I posted that one in the First Class thread just seconds ago.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

Yeah its true x-men is pretty dense. Though I think if you were to read Morrison and Whedon's runs you could pretty much get what the deal is today.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 11, 2011)

Morrison's run is quite long. It's omnibus is freaking heavy.

Not to mention, so bloody hard to find.


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## illmatic (Jun 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> After this though they need to stop writing stories in ways that force them to reboot constantly. Take the marvel approach to continuity, it works much better


v​


> The Earth 616 reality features a sliding timescale, meaning that rather than being fixed to any date in history, the 'modern era' or 'age of heroes' (starting with the Fantastic Four's spaceflight and continuing on to the present) is instead a roughly 13 year period of time that slides forward; the spaceflight stays around 13 years ago, regardless of the current year. This means that while Fantastic Four #1 came out in 1961, the characters in the story have not aged 47 years since that story. While there are some distinct aberrations (such as Peter Parker's sophomore through senior high school years occurring over 2-3 years of real time), as of 2008, you can roughly assign 4-5 years of real time to each year in the Marvel Universe. While some characters such as Captain America, Nick Fury, Wolverine, etc., have real ties to certain periods in history, many references to dates are topical , meaning they were only used to be relevant to the story at the time it was printed. There are those who speculate that this sliding timescale and time compression is, in fact, being caused by a reality manipulator inside or outside the Earth-616 dimension.




All for the almost mystical casual readers


----------



## Parallax (Jun 12, 2011)

You can't follow comics and be a casual reader


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## Petes12 (Jun 12, 2011)

illmatic said:


> v​
> 
> 
> All for the almost mystical casual readers



err ok? That's the right way to do it. It's not really confusing, stuff that happened a long time ago gets forgotten. It works so I dunno what the problem is.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 12, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Yeah its true x-men is pretty dense. Though I think if you were to read Morrison and Whedon's runs you could pretty much get what the deal is today.



Well not really. I mean, sure, the character dynamics, yes, absolutely, but hey, while everyone should read Whedon's run for example, the "Saga" issue of astonishing series sums it all up pretty well without you having to dredge through those volumes.
You'll get the whole mood of the team, and all you'll need to know on top of that is what M-Day was (Astonishing does not cover it) and the Messiah saga, which explains a lot of things, chief among them, why they are in San Francisco.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 12, 2011)

It's things like that that I never bothered getting back into X-Men again it's just too much and blah.  I'm satisfied enough to stick with Uncanny X-Force and Wolverine.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 12, 2011)

Parallax said:


> You can't follow comics and be a casual reader



This. . . somewhat.

Mainstream? Of course.

Non-mainstream comics?

I know of readers who don't do any mainstream but read and read and read a ton of indies.

And none of them, I can call casual.

Heck, most of them that I know are academics and/or writers or artists themselves.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 13, 2011)

I actually still dont know why they moved to San Francisco.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 13, 2011)

Because we're cool


----------



## Parallax (Jun 13, 2011)

really good article, worth a read.


----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 13, 2011)

Parallax said:


> really good article, worth a read.



The worst thing is that Greg is completely correct, no matter how much I hate to say it. I hope this reboot will be as good as the late 80s but I dont have much hope at all given what ive seen thus far. However, I will reserve judgement until I read some of it.

All in all, I just hate that its happening so randomly. Pretty much the only DC I read is Bat-Books and all those just got raped, even if it was considerably less than DC's other series. 

I agree with the dude in the comments asking why don't they just publish magazings like Jump? And other things...



> Now, a few things I don?t understand about comic book publishing:
> 
> How can there be 8 different magazines about jogging or knitting on the shelf at Walmart each month, but a monthly about Superman can?t make a profit?
> 
> ...


----------



## Taleran (Jun 13, 2011)

> Revealing that the first “Justice League” story arc will take place in the past and sees the formation of the League, Lee stated that their intention for the comic was to give the League an “awesome” modern reason for existing as well as reestablish the characters.
> 
> “One thing I’m really interested in is how these guys get along. Like, Green Lantern when he first meets Batman he is like, ‘So what are your powers?’ Because you assume that this guy that dresses up like a bat and fights bad guys, he cant be crazy, he has to have powers!” laughed Johns. Johns, who actually got his start in the business working as Richard Donner’s assistant, also stated that playing with the team’s dynamic was a big draw for him.
> 
> ...



That is the definition of a Geoff Johns comic I have NO INTEREST IN READING.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 13, 2011)

I'll still read it.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm with Taleran on this one. I'll be skipping the first arc or two of JL.


Also, does Johns not like Batman or something? It always feels like he finds some way to take a dig at the guy.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 13, 2011)

pfft someone not liking batman

He just likes the antagonistic relationship between him and GL. Honestly if he hadn't ruined it in the interview it'd probably have been a pretty amusing scene.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 13, 2011)

Eh, the not liking Batman thing doesn't really matter. Its the constant putting him down. Meh. I'm probably just nitpicking.

But yeah, still skipping the intro arcs, unless they end up being really good.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 13, 2011)

My reason is more practical. I don't think Jim Lee will be on the book that long. So the first arc taking place in the past speaks to that.


----------



## Cromer (Jun 13, 2011)

Now if only we could get the cover art for all 52 #1's in a single ZIP (hinthinthint)...


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 13, 2011)

So....is Drake with Young Justice?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 13, 2011)

Taleran said:


> My reason is more practical. I don't think Jim Lee will be on the book that long. So the first arc taking place in the past speaks to that.



Ah, I see. I just want to skip Johns laying down character dynamics clumsily. And then just jump in once he gets down to telling big stories.



Agmaster said:


> So....is Drake with Young Justice?





No. He's with Extreme Youngblood Titans.


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 13, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Now if only we could get the cover art for all 52 #1's in a single ZIP (hinthinthint)...



all 52 images are on this page.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 13, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> No. He's with Extreme Youngblood Titans.



And he calls himself Swan Queen these days.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 13, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> Eh, the not liking Batman thing doesn't really matter. Its the constant putting him down. Meh. I'm probably just nitpicking.



dont be one of those fans who can't deal with anyone doing anything at the expense of batman


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 13, 2011)

all 52 new DC covers

3


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 13, 2011)

Are full solicits (VERTIGO, statues) due today?


----------



## Parallax (Jun 13, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> dont be one of those fans who can't deal with anyone doing anything at the expense of batman



I have to agree with Petes on this one, it's just silly.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 13, 2011)

Things I will be reading; Aquaman, Green Lantern, Batman & Robin, Stormwatch, Action Comics, Supergirl.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 13, 2011)

Parallax said:


> I have to agree with Petes on this one, it's just silly.



You're always so reluctant to agree with me


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 13, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> No. He's with *Extreme Youngblood Titans.*



That sounds like the name of a group of skater vampire twinks.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 13, 2011)

which would sell amazingly well amongst the twilight comunity


----------



## Parallax (Jun 13, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> You're always so reluctant to agree with me



For good reason Petes, for good reason.


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 13, 2011)

Edit 1; *blinks*  It's so liefieldian....i have no hope, but the outfits make me wanna watch.  Just be Bart so I can totally be hooked in via nostalgia and I will give this book 3 whole issues that I will buy.  Dig supechan's outfit/tattoo.  Oh aesthetics...





Bergelmir said:


> No. He's with Extreme Youngblood Titans.


It's sad isn't it?  That I wasn't sure if there was a joke in there.  Even with the smilies.

Edit 2; Oh SHIT I just got that!  Fucking repped for me being slow.

Edit 3; wtf @ black batman character


----------



## Rasendori (Jun 13, 2011)

Batman incorps vs. Green Lantern Corps for next giant war arc. Called it.. lulz


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 13, 2011)

French parkour batman vs Sodam Yat


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 13, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> dont be one of those fans who can't deal with anyone doing anything at the expense of batman



...maybe thats it. I've thought I was pretty good about this until now. It's a slow descent into comic book madness, it seems. l


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 13, 2011)

So after reading some of the Authority, i've decided i'm going to give the Stormwatch relaunch a go...just because it has Mignighter in it.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> French parkour batman vs Sodam Yat



he just needs prep time


----------



## Cromer (Jun 14, 2011)

And RIGHTEOUSNESS!!!...sorry, just a long night.

And frankly, DC has done something weird here: on almost every single solicit they married a writer/artist you'd like with a writer/artist you'd hate, just so. I mean, Gates/Liefeld? And I'M the Liefeld fan around here, but that's doof. Or Levitz/Portela? CORNELL/SEPULVEDA??? By the way, why is Stormwatch now in the DCU proper?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2011)

how bad is sepulveda haha


----------



## Cromer (Jun 14, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> how bad is sepulveda haha


It's as if they're saying 'Here, kitty kitty kitty, here's some yummy rummy Cornell!' and hypnotize us into not seeing the gigantic sword of Damocles that is Sepulveda hanging over our heads.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 14, 2011)

Cromer said:


> And RIGHTEOUSNESS!!!...sorry, just a long night.
> 
> And frankly, DC has done something weird here: on almost every single solicit they married a writer/artist you'd like with a writer/artist you'd hate, just so. I mean, Gates/Liefeld? And I'M the Liefeld fan around here, but that's doof. Or Levitz/Portela? CORNELL/SEPULVEDA??? By the way, *why is Stormwatch now in the DCU proper?*



Superman did it.


----------



## Glued (Jun 14, 2011)

The world needs a bit more Liefield EXTREME in it. Prepare for pouches and more pouches.


----------



## Cromer (Jun 14, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> The world needs a bit more Liefield EXTREME in it. Prepare for pouches and more pouches.


What are you talking about? Pouches are AWESOME! 



:sanji


----------



## Glued (Jun 14, 2011)

Cromer said:


> What are you talking about? Pouches are AWESOME!
> 
> 
> 
> :sanji



I KNOW RIGHT!


----------



## Rod (Jun 14, 2011)

I've to confess that am very skeptical regarding the whole "reboot" stuff.

After reading and taking a time to think about everything that been reading these lastest days, it seems to me more convenient to keep expectations low since looks like (and should I point: In my opinion) that a lot less will in fact change than what seems to be unnecesarily hyped by marketing in all those news.

But that's me, hope indeed to be, eventually, proven delightly wrong.


----------



## Nightblade (Jun 14, 2011)

so are the Batgirls, Marvel fam and Power Girl gone for good? 

didn't see them anywhere in the solicits.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 15, 2011)

This Cassandra Cain fan will wait and see.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 15, 2011)

Nightblade said:


> so are the Batgirls, Marvel fam and Power Girl gone for good?
> 
> didn't see them anywhere in the solicits.



According to Gail Simone, if nobody uses Cass or Steph, she'll use them. Like she used Cass! Oh wait, that never happened.

The Marvel family is the one who could have benefited the most from this, but they are nowhere to be seen.

They probably merged Power Girl with Supergirl.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 15, 2011)

random question: Mister Terrific is the third smartest person at... who's first and second? I'm guessing Luthor is 1 but who would be 2?


----------



## Parallax (Jun 15, 2011)

I think it's Batman and Luthor but I don't know the official order


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 15, 2011)

batman really? /eyeroll


----------



## SageMaster (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm actually excited about reading some of those titles


----------



## Parallax (Jun 15, 2011)

You may not agree but that's the generally accepted stance on the order.  

I'm not saying I agree either I'm just answering your question :|


----------



## Slice (Jun 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> According to Gail Simone, if nobody uses Cass or Steph, she'll use them. Like she used Cass! Oh wait, that never happened.
> 
> The Marvel family is the one who could have benefited the most from this, but they are nowhere to be seen.



Barbara, Cass, Steph - Batgirl Inc. 



gabzilla said:


> They probably merged Power Girl with Supergirl.



Oh please dont let that come true


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 15, 2011)

BIRDS OF LESBIAN PREY INC!

Make it so


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 15, 2011)

Slice said:


> Barbara, Cass, Steph - Batgirl Inc.



I'd pay good money for that.



Slice said:


> Oh please dont let that come true







The Pink Ninja said:


> BIRDS OF LESBIAN PREY INC!
> 
> Make it so



Been there, done that, actually:


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Been there, done that, actually:



Yes, but this would be international

Cass and Steph in bikinis riding jetskis!


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 15, 2011)

...I wish to subscribe to that newsletter.


----------



## Cromer (Jun 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> ...I wish to subscribe to that newsletter.



...I second that motion.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 15, 2011)

Cass was in a bikini in Batgirl but sadly the artist didn't get any good until a dozen issues later.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 15, 2011)




----------



## illmatic (Jun 15, 2011)

Action Comics without the action


----------



## illmatic (Jun 15, 2011)

> *Nrama*: And yet there are a lot of changes. As any informed comic book fan knows, changes to iconic characters rarely “sticks.” We all remember Superman Blue and other costumes that eventually got back to iconic looks, and we've seen characters come back from the dead. Should fans even regard these changes as anything but a phase — a temporary status quo that will give way to the more familiar version?
> 
> *Harras*: I think this time, honestly, we've taken a lot of care making sure we look at what works for each and every character. We love these characters so we've taken an extreme amount of care to look at what we want to do.
> 
> ...



Is it just a phase? In your opinion


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 15, 2011)

So Tim's Vegas showgirl look is here to stay?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 15, 2011)

> Action Comics without the action


He didn't say that, but I can totally understand how you weren't able to understand his cartoonish accent


----------



## Bender (Jun 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> So Tim's Vegas showgirl look is here to stay?



:rofl :rofl :rofl



























Unfortunately so


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 15, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Is it just a phase? In your opinion



The costumes? I doubt there'd ever be a line-wide 'lets go back to the old looks' thing, but who knows where the costumes go individually from here. I'm sure they'll evolve. 

People automatically assuming everything will revert are dumb though.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 15, 2011)

If the reboot bombs in sales, it'll be one of the most memorable disasters in comic history.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 15, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Action Comics without the action



:rofl                    .


----------



## Rod (Jun 16, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> I'm with Taleran on this one. I'll be skipping the first arc or two of JL.
> 
> 
> Also, does Johns not like Batman or something? It always feels like he finds some way to take a dig at the guy.



It's often a topic of discussion indeed, with different claims just as trying to keep the hero a little bit more grounded as now it may live in a pedestal by other writers, or simply that fans got unused to a more fallible portray of the Caped Crusader these days and thus these reactions, whatever it is... Otoh, notice Geoff is responsible for Batman: EO (perhaps to acquire a better grip at the character) however, interestingly now that you mention it...

From the looks of the solicit it seems that with this revamp, the idea of developing a League starts now with Bruce rather than Clark as in classic story.

Plus and besides, Bruce is also in charge of the JLI (by the looks). DC pushing flagship?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 16, 2011)

Rod said:


> It's often a topic of discussion indeed, with different claims just as trying to keep the hero a little bit more grounded as now it may live in a pedestal by other writers, or simply that fans got unused to a more fallible portray of Batman these days and thus these reactions, whatever it is... Otoh, notice Geoff is responsible for *Batman: EO* (perhaps to acquire a better grip at the character) however, interestingly now that you mention it...
> 
> From the looks of the solicit it seems that with this revamp, the idea of developing a League starts now with Bruce rather than Clark as in classic story.
> 
> Plus and besides, Bruce is also on charge of the JLI (by the looks). DC pushing flagship?



Is that still happening? With the lack of any news, I just assumed it had been cancelled.


----------



## Rod (Jun 16, 2011)

Cannot assure you with concrete sources Berg, but it's very likely that yes. The reboot for the Dark Knight is basically numerical with the #1 being just a traditional story of the charater both TEC and main issues, there would be, at this point no conflict of redundance of script or origins as this theme is not being approached in this case, so it's free-way for EO, just a matter of when.

Anyways, here the solicits of the JL stuff as aforementioned in previous post:



> *JUSTICE LEAGUE #1
> Written by GEOFF JOHNS
> Art and cover by JIM LEE and SCOTT WILLIAMS
> 1:25 Variant cover by DAVID FINCH
> ...


----------



## Taleran (Jun 16, 2011)

That sounds like the opening episodes of JLA with Batman discovering the threat and then getting the band together.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 16, 2011)

Rod said:


> Cannot assure you with concrete sources Berg, but it's very likely that yes. The reboot for the Dark Knight is basically numerical with the #1 being just a traditional story of the charater both TEC and main issues, there would be, at this point no conflict of redundance of script or origins as this theme is not being approached in this case, so it's free-way for EO, just a matter of when.



Thats good to know. I have to admit, I was looking forward to this, so any chance of it happening is a good thing.


----------



## Cromer (Jun 16, 2011)

Taleran said:


> That sounds like the opening episodes of JLA with Batman discovering the threat and then getting the band together.


So we should expect 

1. Batman detects threat
2. Manhunter telepathically gathers the Defenders of Awesome
3. Superman suggests they stay together?

Amirite?


----------



## Taleran (Jun 16, 2011)

J'onn isn't on the Team so I guess Cyborg will have to contact everyone.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 17, 2011)

There is something else about this no one has mentioned that I recently heard talked about.

1. DCU Trade sales in September will be shot out of the knees because of this change.

2. Merchandizing these characters will have a whole new facet with their costumes definitively changing.

3. The big one. The way pull lists currently work at comic shops you aren't signed up for example Batman you are signed up for the Barcode of Batman or the Order Number of the book. The new re-launch of Batman does not have the same Order Number as the Previous ending title so everyone who had Batman, or Action Comics or etc etc will not have the new one on that list come September.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 17, 2011)

Well honestly if you have a competent comic book store and you're a regular enough to have a pull list no.3 wont even be an issue at all.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 17, 2011)

Taleran said:


> There is something else about this no one has mentioned that I recently heard talked about.
> 
> 1. DCU Trade sales in September will be shot out of the knees because of this change.
> 
> ...



I see someone has been listening to the Savage Critics podcast.

I don't think #1 will be nearly as big a problem as people think; if they enjoy the stories, they might well go back and check 'em out. I mean, why not check out Batman RIP if everyone likes it? Plus, some stories will still obviously be in continuity, so there is still something of a market for them.

#2 is kind of dismissed on the show well enough; there's a retro market, plus you could make a big enough market with people who want the new stuff. It's creating another market rather than killing one.

#3 seemed to be the biggest one to worry about because you are asking people if they want to keep going, and this is a huge jumping off point if people just want to save the money. Maybe they just don't want the stuff anymore, or maybe they won't sign up for as many... Hibbs makes a great point about the flyer he has to send out and how massive it is. It's worrisome.

Oh, and thanks again for showing that site to me. Very useful.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 17, 2011)

If the reboot is successful, I wonder what would be the first Absolute edition of the DCnU. . .


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 17, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> If the reboot is successful, I wonder what would be the first Absolute edition of the DCnU. . .



Justice League or Action Comics, but I'd wager the former because it's a Jim Lee book and these are the guys behind the redesign.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 17, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> If the reboot is successful, I wonder what would be the first Absolute edition of the DCnU. . .



You are crazy about Absolutes


----------



## Parallax (Jun 17, 2011)

It's the only comic format he buys


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 17, 2011)

I know its just funny that hes trying to guess which comics that havent come out yet will be absolutes


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 17, 2011)

DCnU is DC new Universe?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 17, 2011)

its DCU except 'nu' or new because people think they're clever


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 17, 2011)

Oh, that _was_ kinda clever though.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 17, 2011)

I guess, I just hope the name doesnt stick around much longer


----------



## Rod (Jun 17, 2011)

It did with WW, still see folks calling "nuDiana". 

This since JMS. Yeah...


t.t...


----------



## Bender (Jun 17, 2011)

Cromer said:


> So we should expect
> 
> 1. Batman detects threat
> 2. Manhunter telepathically gathers the Defenders of Awesome
> ...



I suppose so -_-


----------



## Shadow (Jun 17, 2011)

Are there any Flashpoint Tie-Ins I should be reading? I read Batman tie-in and was interested....I might pick up Emperor Aquaman but other than that any other interesting tie-ins for flashpoint?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 17, 2011)

Shadow said:


> Are there any Flashpoint Tie-Ins I should be reading? I read Batman tie-in and was interested....I might pick up Emperor Aquaman but other than that any other interesting tie-ins for flashpoint?



Aquaman's pretty good, as is Secret Seven...


----------



## Taleran (Jun 18, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> its DCU except 'nu' or new because people think they're clever



Also because people seem to be comparing it to the Modern Doctor Who relaunch which makes sense.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 19, 2011)

> Most of the released solicitation images for the DC Relaunch are not the covers for the first issue – so look forward to all those being announced soon as well.
> 
> THUNDER Agents will return, and yes, will still have Nick Spencer writing.
> 
> Nicola Scott is working on an upcoming DC project.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 19, 2011)

No votes for "Young Justice" line


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 19, 2011)

> Nicola Scott is working on an upcoming DC project.



Mhhh... I heard Dustin Nguyen is working on an upcoming DC project too...

cass and steph series plz


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 19, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Mhhh... I heard Dustin Nguyen is working on an upcoming DC project too...
> 
> cass and steph series plz



Crossing my fingers...

It be hilarious though if it were the freaking Ghost Tank or another really old series coming back after all these years...now there's something nobody would know who he was.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 19, 2011)

Well it's nice to see that I don't have to jump off the THUNDER Agents wagon.

Now where's my Xombi solicitation.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 20, 2011)




----------



## Castiel (Jun 20, 2011)

two page spread from Fury of Firestorm



I like Cinar


also the more I read about All-Star Western, the more interested I get


----------



## Rod (Jun 21, 2011)

Indeed, Cas! Now that you mention, allow me to comment some on it, please;

Did you guys see the Gotham of the western?



Thought it was going to be a lot more different, much more pointing towards a self-contained aspect of city, but the layout presented is eloquent, maginificent and demonstrates or gives vibe (with even certain optimistic air could be interpreted) of grandiosity from the Industrial Revolution capitals, perhaps not the most indicated if very accurate in terms of what story wants to present with how this matches it's time, however, artistic license.

Regardless, wonder if also points to a DC being more careful towards it's own, notice historical study of city itself provides Gotham was for majority of eras the most important area of the country with only in recent penultimate century reaching it's situation in decadence, even though as of actual moment the city is in clear recovering. 

It'd be at least interesting, if that being the case for DC (refering indeed if are they paying said attention for), how will they depict Gotham in it's pinnacle ages? Curiosity alluded, remains to be seen!


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 21, 2011)

Isn't that the page from Jonah Hex? It looks awesome.

Babsgirl suit looks weird, though.


----------



## Angelus (Jun 21, 2011)

I was really hoping that the new Superman costume design would be cool, but alas, it's pretty crappy...


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 21, 2011)

> You won’t be seeing Donna Troy yet in the new DCU, nor the Stephanie and Cassandra Batgirls. They haven’t been killed off though, just benched





Diversity, people!


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 21, 2011)

well cass is the only one of those that provides 'diversity', unless marrying marv wolfman's creepy gary stu makes you diverse.

but yeah I'm annoyed, I just don't see what makes barbara gordon remotely special.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 21, 2011)

Strong women in speculative fiction, whatever the medium, are, distressingly, still diverse.



> So, why do you write these strong female characters?
> 
> Because you’re still asking me that question.



Also Steph is upbeat, which is diverse in the manpain world of Gotham and even moreso given the Dork Age look of the reboot.


----------



## Rod (Jun 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Isn't that the page from Jonah Hex? It looks awesome.(...)



Indeed it is, Gabz!  Cover from All - Star Western #1 w/ Jonah Hex!


----------



## Parallax (Jun 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> well cass is the only one of those that provides 'diversity', unless marrying marv wolfman's creepy gary stu makes you diverse.
> 
> but yeah I'm annoyed, I just don't see what makes barbara gordon remotely special.



It was a different age Petes, you just wouldn't understand.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 21, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Also Steph is upbeat, which is diverse in the manpain world of Gotham and even moreso given the Dork Age look of the reboot.



as far as character diversity goes that's pretty much nothing. supergirl without powers. cass was much more unique.



Parallax said:


> It was a different age Petes, you just wouldn't understand.



so no reason then!


----------



## Taleran (Jun 21, 2011)




----------



## gabzilla (Jun 21, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Also Steph is upbeat, which is diverse in the manpain world of Gotham and even moreso given the Dork Age look of the reboot.



She was also from a poor family. And she's female.

But DC doesn't seem to care about female characters or fans. 



> The target audience are men age 18 to 34 though they do realize that they have readers in other demographics.



I thought the idea was to attract new readers?



> Many of the new 52 books will have six issue story arcs, and Dan DiDio states that if sales are bad on a title, they won't wait very long to cancel it. He wants strong sales across the line.



That's gonna end well...



Rod said:


> Indeed it is, Gabz!  Cover from All - Star Western #1 w/ Jonah Hex!



I love the art.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> so no reason then!



Sure Petes, sure

Actually the way you feel about Barbara is probably the way I feel about Cass.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 21, 2011)

Cass makes you feel DC's pathetically cashing in on nostalgia for shit that was never good and a character that offers absolutely nothing unique or interesting?

I mean, I can acknowledge that its totally possible to do really modern enjoyable stories with barbara as batgirl, but I don't see what she actually brings to the table that Steph didn't already. Or, you know, pretty much every other 'plucky' heroine in the DCU.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 21, 2011)

Cass does now sure. She worked because of her original gimmick. There is only a certain amount of time where you can play that gimmick.


They are both incredibly boring to me but at least Barbara had a book drawn by Marcos Martin


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 21, 2011)

Babsgirl is going to have the singularly poor misfortune of not only being a poor copy of BQMs Steph but worse, a second rate copy of herself as Oracle.

Over a decade of moving Oracle awesomeness versus some rebooted bullshit?

Bitch please


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Cass makes you feel DC's pathetically cashing in on nostalgia for shit that was never good and a character that offers absolutely nothing unique or interesting?
> 
> I mean, I can acknowledge that its totally possible to do really modern enjoyable stories with barbara as batgirl, but I don't see what she actually brings to the table that Steph didn't already. Or, you know, pretty much every other 'plucky' heroine in the DCU.



I don't know if this is a retcon or whatever, but in BG's year one story there's the whole bit about escaping the traditional and limited female roles she otherwise would be guided into.  And that's on top of the working class hero stuff and non-grim background other people have mentioned.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 21, 2011)

nongrim background isn't really that unique, especially with heroines. 

lets not kid ourselves, whatever other value there might be to barbara, the only real reason they're doing it is nostalgia and brand recognition- new readers know who barbara gordon is.


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## ghstwrld (Jun 21, 2011)

Has anyone suggested otherwise?  Even Gail and DC say as much around the first couple of announcements.


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## Petes12 (Jun 21, 2011)

I guess not but it seemed like you were trying to justify the whole thing. I'm not exactly angry about it though... just annoyed.


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## gabzilla (Jun 21, 2011)

The working class hero stuff applies to Steph as well, even more than it applies to Babs imo.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 21, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Strong women in speculative fiction, whatever the medium, are, distressingly, still diverse.



... While it is disappointing that they are going to be sitting out for a little while, it doesn't really effect diversity. DC has plenty of strong female characters, and I doubt that sitting out three of them will really hurt them that much.

While it is disappointing from a character standpoint, it does not mean that the world is suddenly lacking in strong female characters. They are not unique in that sense.



> Also Steph is upbeat, which is diverse in the manpain world of Gotham and even moreso given the Dork Age look of the reboot.



So she's sort of like every Robin used to be (Or still is, depending on how they are written)? How is that diverse?

Seriously, upbeat used to mean something before we saw Bruce Wayne trolling internet forums about the identity of Batman, or when he was talking about the CD changer in the Batmobile. Morrison gave us a Batman who was both dark and could still crack a smile or two.



> Babsgirl is going to have the singularly poor misfortune of not only being a poor copy of BQMs Steph but worse, a second rate copy of herself as Oracle.



What, have you read the book already? It's Simone; I doubt she'll copy anybody.



> Over a decade of moving Oracle awesomeness versus some rebooted bullshit?
> 
> Bitch please



Oh God, the crying about this is amazing. I don't remember making even half the same amount of noise when Checkmate was ruined by Bruce Jones.

I get it. You like the series. Move on already. It is not the end of the fucking world.

Edit: Nongrim background? Didn't she have a father who was constantly in jail because he was a third-rate supervillain? It's not "Parents dead in a backalley", but it's hardly the Blue Beetle here.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 21, 2011)

methinks most people here using the word diverse don't really know what it means.


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## gabzilla (Jun 21, 2011)

Would you call what they are doing as "aiming to attract a wider, more diverse audience"?

I'm honestly curious.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 21, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _A Visual Guide To The DC Relaunch_ 








I'm guessing them rings are meant to represent current tiers/ranking of which comics survive the relaunch, once the dust is settled. It could also be a ranking for how anticipated one title is compared to another, or a way of showing  core titles to cult titles


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## gabzilla (Jun 21, 2011)

Danger zone rings


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## Castiel (Jun 21, 2011)

I don't think so since DC isn't likely going to cancel a Palmiotti/Gray western title, unless they leave it on their own.

Also Mr. Terrific isn't all the way in the danger zone


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## Petes12 (Jun 21, 2011)

or omac who wants to read that? i'd read i, vampire before that


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## gabzilla (Jun 21, 2011)

Well, they are in the next ring.

OMAC will survive because it's Didio's pet book.


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## LIL_M0 (Jun 21, 2011)

illmatic said:


> *Spoiler*: _A Visual Guide To The DC Relaunch_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
This is what the rings mean (from outside to inside):

estimated 6 months til cancellation
estimated 12 months til cancellation
estimated 18 months til cancellation
estimated 24 months til cancellation
lasts indefinitely though the creative change will change
estimated 24 months til cancellation, then relaunch, then cancellation


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 21, 2011)

Lol at Didio's comment, if he seriously expects all of the books to sell that well in the first six months, he's fucking high.



LIL_M0 said:


> This is what the rings mean (from outside to inside):
> 
> estimated 6 months til cancellation
> estimated 12 months til cancellation
> ...



Sounds about right


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## Taleran (Jun 21, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Lol at Didio's comment, if he seriously expects all of the books to sell that well in the first six months, he's fucking high.



No doubt do I think they do. Also no doubt that I think a good chunk of them have to sell decently for this to be a success.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 21, 2011)

Taleran said:


> No doubt do I think they do. Also no doubt that I think a good chunk of them have to sell decently for this to be a success.



Half those books aren't going to meet his standards though, plus there are going to be readers who are going to want to wait a few months to see if the books are actually worth reading in the first place. It should be longer than six issues in my opinion...but meh.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 21, 2011)

A major relaunch like this can't take 6 months to find its customers or it never will. It needs to have early success or will be considered a failure and will lead to some larger problems.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 21, 2011)

Even the worst of the worst ongoing series are given a 6 month grace period. That way they could say, "oh, it was meant to be a mini-series all along. ".


----------



## Castiel (Jun 22, 2011)

I like how on some of those they slap on a "#X of 6" on them halfway through


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 22, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> Even the worst of the worst ongoing series are given a 6 month grace period. That way they could say, "oh, it was meant to be a mini-series all along. ".



DC, of the two companies, is ridiculously forgiving of low-selling books. They are far more likely to editorially mandate a series to continue compared to Marvel.

Also, I think this is what I may do:


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 22, 2011)

Is anyone else finding themselves crazy disinterested in DC as a whole? Some of these books look good, but I can't get over how this looks to be like such a huge middle finger to current fans.

As a kid, the reason I loved DC is because the characters had all this history. For instance, I identified with Robin and Nightwing because they were younger, but I still loved Batman because he looked like a guy who had seen it all and come out on top. Same with superman. I guess what I'm saying is that there are certain characters I don't need to relate to, and I don't think the right move is de aging or altering characters to make them easier to relate to.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 22, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Is anyone else finding themselves crazy disinterested in DC as a whole?


Yes. 



> Some of these books look good, but I can't get over how this looks to be like such a huge middle finger to current fans.
> 
> As a kid, the reason I loved DC is because the characters had all this history. For instance, I identified with Robin and Nightwing because they were younger, but I still loved Batman because he looked like a guy who had seen it all and come out on top. Same with superman. I guess what I'm saying is that there are certain characters I don't need to relate to, and I don't think the right move is de aging or altering characters to make them easier to relate to.


As a kid I was a true believer Marvel fan, never really cared much about DC (aside from Superman II and the Batman movies), so I'm not really broken up about the change as some of you guys are.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

Well, they are getting rid of my favourite characters and I'm not very interested in most of the new titles, so...


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 22, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Well, they are getting rid of my favourite characters and I'm not very interested in most of the new titles, so...



Yea, the only thing I can appreciate about this is that there are a few titles that look interesting (most if not all of which could work without an OMG NEW #1s REBOOT) and the sheer ballsiness to pull something like this.

But just because you have the balls to do something doesn't mean you should do it.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 22, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, the only thing I can appreciate about this is that there are a few titles that look interesting (most if not all of which could work without an OMG NEW #1s REBOOT) and the sheer ballsiness to pull something like this.
> 
> But just because you have the balls to do something doesn't mean you should do it.



If you say this about the reboot, would you agree with a fan who said this about the original _Crisis on Infinite Earths_? How many people didn't want to lose their Superman, their Batman, their Huntress, their Captain Marvel, etc...


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, the only thing I can appreciate about this is that there are a few titles that look interesting (most if not all of which could work without an OMG NEW #1s REBOOT) and the sheer ballsiness to pull something like this.
> 
> But just because you have the balls to do something doesn't mean you should do it.



Balls? LOL

This looks more like a desperate last attempt to get more readers.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 22, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> If you say this about the reboot, would you agree with a fan who said this about the original _Crisis on Infinite Earths_? How many people didn't want to lose their Superman, their Batman, their Huntress, their Captain Marvel, etc...



That's a good point, and maybe looking back it'll be the same way. However for now this looks kind of sloppy. I wasn't there for COIE, but from what I've read it seemed like they had more of a feel for what they were doing.

Like I said, maybe I'm wrong (good god I hope I'm wrong), but I just have a really strong feeling that this is going to make me significantly decrease my DC purchases.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 22, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Balls? LOL
> 
> This looks more like a desperate last attempt to get more readers.



Well, it really is. The industry is basically supported by 60,000 or so consistent readers. At this point, they either they die out slowly with Steph, or they try something daring and actually manage to expand the base that feeds it. If you had to make a choice, what would it be?



Whip Whirlwind said:


> That's a good point, and maybe looking back it'll be the same way. However for now this looks kind of sloppy. I wasn't there for COIE, but from what I've read it seemed like they had more of a feel for what they were doing.



Trust me, from what I understand the feeling is rather similar. Not to say that DC will have the same success, but the feelings from long-time fans.



> Like I said, maybe I'm wrong (good god I hope I'm wrong), but I just have a really strong feeling that this is going to make me significantly decrease my DC purchases.



Yeah. I'm going to try some of the new stuff, but I'm really hoping they have a lot of winners here.


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## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Well, it really is. The industry is basically supported by 60,000 or so consistent readers. At this point, they either they die out slowly with Steph, or they try something daring and actually manage to expand the base that feeds it. If you had to make a choice, what would it be?



Steph's Batgirl is not the only title they are cancelling. Steph is not the only character being "benched". You seem to believe I'm pissed only because they are cancelling her book. That's not the case. I read Red Robin, I read Batman and Robin, I read Gates of Gotham, I read Powergirl. Come September I will only read Jason's book, Blue Beetle and Static Shock. And the last two will probably be cancelled after six issues.

How are they expanding their base by targeting the same old demographic? How are they expanding their base by basically telling women that they know they buy their product but they don't really matter? How are they expanding their base by using the same writers and artists that started this mess in the first place while at the same time ignoring talented and popular writers? (not just Miller, where the heck is Marcus To?)

There are many ways to expand their base. This? Lazy and stupid, to be honest. It may generate some interest for... how long? 2 months?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 22, 2011)

Alas, will I see the end of DC comics within my immediate lifetime?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

well their target demographic might be the same but that doesn't mean they cant seriously expand their base if the digital thing and all the advertising for it works. they're pretty far from every 18-34 year old in the world reading their comics, ya know?

I wonder how many people are really willing to pay $3 for 20 pages of comic though. I think they'd get a ton more people at a price like $2, but that's a gambit- if enough people get into then it pays off and everyone's happy cus, hey, lower prices! but if not then they'd obviously lose a lot of money cus without more people that's just too low a price


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## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> well their target demographic might be the same but that doesn't mean they cant seriously expand their base if the digital thing and all the advertising for it works. they're pretty far from every 18-34 year old in the world reading their comics, ya know?



Do you think this is going to attract those 18-34 males that weren't interested before the relaunch?


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## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

That's obviously the theory.


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## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

I guess we'll see.


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## typhoon72 (Jun 22, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> How are they expanding their base by targeting the same old demographic? How are they expanding their base by basically telling women that they know they buy their product but they don't really matter? How are they expanding their base by using the same writers and artists that started this mess in the first place while at the same time ignoring talented and popular writers? (not just Miller, where the heck is Marcus To?)
> 
> There are many ways to expand their base. This? Lazy and stupid, to be honest. It may generate some interest for... how long? 2 months?



I agree. This whole thing doesn't seem like it was thoroughly planned out. How this is DC expanding their base when nobody knows about the reboot except the people that read comics in the first place?

The terrible 'Xtream!' designs don't exactly scream "buy me" either. If DC was really serious about this reboot they would of had marketing before the GL movie notifying people about it. If they were serious they could have rebooted without the unnecessary trolling --keeping fans in the dark about specific characters, dreadful designs when they didn't have to be changed in the first place, etc.

It seems they are just trying to generate buzz by doing the wrong things instead of the right things because negative press is better than zero press and easier than doing things right. I hope it fails. Ill still give the batbooks a try and hopefully I enjoy them but overall this feels like a better jumping off point than a starting one.

Overall, im not against a reboot in theory, because I can see why DC did it. However, from the way this one is being executed I just don't like what im seeing. It feels halfassed.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 22, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I guess we'll see.





You should check out this article it's actually pretty interesting and goes beyond things like " X Character wont be here and Continuity NOOO!"


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## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

They are planning to do a lot of marketing. We just don't see it yet because, duh, the relaunch is still 4 months away.


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## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

Parallax said:


> You should check out this article it's actually pretty interesting and goes beyond things like " X Character wont be here and Continuity NOOO!"



I read it a week ago.

There's a lot of things wrong with it, though.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 22, 2011)

what does it get wrong


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 22, 2011)

Edit: You know what? It's wrong of me to bitch you down for your opinion. While I still feel exactly as I wrote, we are obviously different and perhaps I just can't see it from your point of view. Fair enough; I will simply disagree at this point.

I suppose the only question I have to ask is why do you feel like DC is targeting you? That is something that I honestly need explained to me.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

Parallax said:


> what does it get wrong



nothing. 

It's exactly how I felt actually.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Gates of Gotham was a miniseries to begin with, right? Are you honestly complaining that its ending so the writer can work on the main Batman book? Think about that one.



I'm not complaining that it's ending. I was interested in that miniseries because of Cassandra. Cass is being benched. Interest gone.

I don't care about Bruce, so I honestly don't give a flying fuck about who is writing the main Batman book.



Guy Gardner said:


> And it's not like you are the only one losing books. I'm losing Booster Gold and Secret Six, two books which I didn't stop collecting even after I had gotten out of comics briefly (The other would be Emerald Warriors for... uh, obvious reasons). Hell, Secret Six was one of the miniseries which brought me on board (along with Shadowpact) to Infinite Crisis. A lot of the series and characters which are leaving for a while are the ones which brought me into comics. As disappointing as it is to see those series go, it's not going to stop me from finding the _next_ Secret Six or the _next_ Booster Gold or the next _Immortal Iron Fist_.



...Where did I say I was the only one losing books? I was talking about why I'm not interested in this reboot/relaunch/whatever it is. I'm not telling you you can't be excited about it.



Guy Gardner said:


> I bring up Batgirl because she is absolutely indicative of what's going on here: She's a character people keeping referring to as though she's dead when she's not. She just doesn't have a book right now. People are harping so much on what series they've lost that they refuse to look at new series. Gail Simone is one of my favorite writers, but no one is going to give her a chance writing the character that she had an huge hand in reinventing and making interesting. _I_ get angry when someone who has gotten me into characters I never thought I would get into (Ryan Choi, Catman, and many others) gets put down because she's not writing the character other people want.



Well, excuse me for having little faith when it comes to DC and how they handle Cass (derailed into a villain, forgotten, brought back for five minutes only to be benched again), Steph (derailed, fridged, ignored as a Robin, benched before she reaches her second year as Batgirl) and Donna (let's not even get there).

And honestly? I don't care if Gail Simone is writing the new Batgirl. She doesn't impress me as much as she seems to impress other people. What she said about the Wasp and the way she talks about Babsgirl doesn't help. I'll check the first issue out of curiosity, but I won't buy it.

You think I'm mad because she's not writing Cass and Steph? Geez, I don't want her to write _either_ of them.



Guy Gardner said:


> Just because you care about characters doesn't mean you can't explore others. I'm proof of that; I didn't get into comics to read Checkmate or Booster Gold or Blue Beetle. I got into it to read Batman and Superman. It just turns out that the others (and so many more) are ones which I took huge chances on.



What makes you think I don't want to explore other characters? Stop assuming, please.



Guy Gardner said:


> They aren't. If they were targeting their base, they'd be doing what Marvel is with "Schism". You seem to think that they are going back to Barbara because of nostalgia, but it's more because she's easily the most recognizable Batgirl out there. A lot of what's going on is to bring them in line with their more recognizable animated and live-action properties. Another example: Superboy is obviously be pushed back to a "Young Justice" version.



They are.  The only difference is that they are trying to reach the 18/34 males who aren't reading their comics. And I don't know why they think they will start reading comics just because they are renumbering things and Babs is back in the go go boots.

And Dick is the most recognizable Robin. Heck, he's the Robin in the Young Justice cartoon. He was the Robin in TT and The Batman. I don't see him wearing green panties.



Guy Gardner said:


> Based on...? I don't think they are trying to tell women they don't matter in any way.



Based on? If a company tells me they are catering to 18-34 straight males, it's telling me the rest of their audience is secondary. Especially hypocrital when they preached about diversity.



Guy Gardner said:


> What are they doing that is so insulting to women and not men?



...see above



Guy Gardner said:


> While I'll agree that I would have used a few more writers, there's something to be said about writers getting to explore without having to worry nearly as much about continuity. I mean, this was really the case with 1986 and the reinvention of characters like Superman and Wonder Woman.



Without having to worry about continuity? They are not changing anything. This is not a full reboot. The continuity is still there. Edited, but mostly unchanged. At least when it comes to Batman. Which, by the way, is making things more confusing for the "new readers". Batman is the same, but Superman and WW are not. 

You know which characters could have used the reboot? The Marvel family. Elastic Man and Sue Dibny. The former are still MIA. The latter are still dead.



Guy Gardner said:


> Speaking of which,  are those who missed the "first cut", though some of them do have secondary projects. Let's wait and see what these people are doing first.



Yeah, yeah, they may be in the second cut. But I find it stupid curious that Rob Fucking Liedfield is in the first batch, but Marcus To is not.



Guy Gardner said:


> Like what? People keep saying there are better ways, but at this point there really aren't. This is something which should have probably been done a year ago, but wasn't.



Yes, there are. You don't expand your audience by catering to the same audience you have been losing for the past 15 years. You find new markets. Cartoons, for fuck sake, are the easiest way to do that. Cartoons are mostly kid friendly, more visible, they generate interest and are much much easier to market overseas.



Guy Gardner said:


> Something drastic is needed, and it needs to happen big: you can't just roll out a couple titles a month because Marvel will squeeze you out easily with their own new titles. The whole 52 is part publicity stunt, part necessity to ensure that they can't be muscled out because they are restarting.



The thing is... this is not drastic. Maybe for Superman and WW. But for Batman? What's really changing? All the Robins are still there, except the one with boobs, the history is intact - if compressed - the only major change seems to be Babs walking again and for what they are telling us, is not even a retcon.



Guy Gardner said:


> I'm not going to say this was the best planned thing, but it's something they needed to do. Most of the other solutions I've seen are too underwhelming, too small, and too safe. Right now, safe is death.
> 
> So yes, while they could die in this reboot, they would die if they kept the course.



This isn't daring. Daring would have been a full reboot. Start from scratch. That would take balls. This? Is trying to have your cake and eat it too.

I never said change isn't good. I'm saying this is a shoddy way to do it.

Look I don't want to rain on your parade. I'm not telling you that you are wrong for being excited about this. I'm glad at least somebody is. But for me, this is a dumb move. I don't want DC to crash and burn, I really don't. But I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

So you really would want to get rid of all the good batman stuff? lol


----------



## Parallax (Jun 22, 2011)

I don't think that's what Gabzilla is getting at Petes


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

Read what he said then


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## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm a girl.

What I meant is that you either reboot everything or you don't. At least if what you are trying to do is make things more simple for the new readers.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 22, 2011)

I don't agree with the whole all or nothing approach

though honestly it seems like ANY kind of change or lack thereof to continuity is bound to piss and outrage somebody


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

sorry. but yeah, I for one am totally fine with cutting out the suck and keeping the stuff that actually works really well. Jettisoning every good development is bad for the stories in it's own way.


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## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

I don't like the extremes, but if you want to make it simple, you go back to the roots.

Or you use the relaunch to get rid of the bad stuff you did before (Beechen, Nightwing's rape, War Games, Beechen, Sue Dibny's rape and fridging, Beechen, Ms Marvel derailment, Beechen).

Well, of course you are bound to piss people off no matter what you do. But all this mess could have been prevented if they had taken a different approach.

Of course, it could be that the people that are pissed are only a vocal minority. We won't know until the end of the year.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

I think marvel proves that you can do a 'relaunch' that makes things plenty simple without actually rebooting.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

Marvel also has the Ultimate line. DC could have tried something like that.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

Marvel's abandoned the original goal of the ultimate line because they just did it in their main universe.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

Ah yes.

One More Day.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

And disassembled! 

but it more or less worked. it's not very hard to jump into any of the main avengers' books, including the solo books.

The big mistake would be if DC felt the need that they always feel, to go back and examine what they've changed and try to make sense of it. They just need to move forward.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 22, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Yeah, yeah, they may be in the second cut. But I find it stupid curious that Rob Fucking Liedfield is in the first batch, but Marcus To is not.



Yea this kind of annoyed me. Marcus To is a really solid artist. Not WTFAMAZING, but certainly much better than someone whose reputation is built out of being a shitty artist.

But the creative teams here are another big thing that bugs me. It's their usual workhorses just put on new books. Hopefully this new universe allows them to release some kind of hidden potential?



Petes12 said:


> And disassembled!
> 
> but it more or less worked. it's not very hard to jump into any of the main avengers' books, including the solo books.



Justice League is one title that I'm really hoping has the sort of feel of Marvel's post disassembled avengers books. I loved how with the "new" avengers it was easy to highlight characters who weren't "iconic" and actually spin them into their own series.

Luke Cage being a primary example.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

If it'd been To on that book instead of Liefeld I'd have probably picked it up even with my complete lack of interest in hawk and dove.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 22, 2011)

Let's be a little less ranty with this one...



gabzilla said:


> I'm not complaining that it's ending. I was interested in that miniseries because of Cassandra. Cass is being benched. Interest gone.
> 
> I don't care about Bruce, so I honestly don't give a flying fuck about who is writing the main Batman book.



Eh, I guess I'm just different. I don't follow things for the characters; more the individual stories. You give me something compelling, and I'll read it whether it's Superman or Solomon Grundy.



> ...Where did I say I was the only one losing books? I was talking about why I'm not interested in this reboot/relaunch/whatever it is. I'm not telling you you can't be excited about it.



I guess it's just because I don't get the anger. I understand being irritated, but I just don't get what comes off as real _anger_ here.



> Well, excuse me for having little faith when it comes to DC and how they handle Cass (derailed into a villain, forgotten, brought back for five minutes only to be benched again), Steph (derailed, fridged, ignored as a Robin, benched before she reaches her second year as Batgirl) and Donna (let's not even get there).



Look, before Rebirth Guy Gardner was

- In a coma for years.
- Trapped in the Phantom Zone for years.
- Brain damaged to the point where a knock on the head could make him become like a 5-year old.
- Was the biggest joke in the JLI.
- Lost his superpowers and the superpowered group he belonged to.
- Became a half-alien warrior who could make weapons out of his body.

Those first two span the better part of the 1980's where he was just completely not there, despite being technically #2 Green Lantern. After that, Keith Giffen made him a complete joke, and the 90's take on his character and origins are _thankfully_ gone. Characters get through rough times; this reboot could prove good for them.

I mean, it's not like it could get any worse for Donna... 



> And honestly? I don't care if Gail Simone is writing the new Batgirl. She doesn't impress me as much as she seems to impress other people. What she said about the Wasp and the way she talks about Babsgirl doesn't help. I'll check the first issue out of curiosity, but I won't buy it.



Fair enough, I suppose. Out of all the writers I've followed, I always felt she was the most versatile when it came to writing. Personal taste is personal, though.



> You think I'm mad because she's not writing Cass and Steph? Geez, I don't want her to write _either_ of them.



No, I'm frustrated that it seems like people aren't giving her a chance because it's not Brian Q. Miller writing Steph. It's the fact that people are so bitter about losing a book that they won't give the new one a chance.

I believe it's called "Ted Kord Syndrome". 



> What makes you think I don't want to explore other characters? Stop assuming, please.



To be honest? It's because you keep concentrating on the characters who are going to be gone for a little while, rather than looking at what's new. While I understand the irritation, it's not like these characters are getting killed off in useless and insulting ways like Ryan Choi (Or Bucky Barnes, depending on how Fear Itself continues). They might still be in books or once again get their own books (If Amanda Conner is working on something, it certainly could be a new Power Girl book).

It seems to be just blown completely out of proportion to me.



> They are.  The only difference is that they are trying to reach the 18/34 males who aren't reading their comics. And I don't know why they think they will start reading comics just because they are renumbering things and Babs is back in the go go boots.



They are going back to Babs because she's the original, she's recognizable, and (amazingly enough) she doesn't have very many Batgirl stories told about her. It's an easy change which has been talked about for a long time and why not do it now when you are trying to attract people who are interested in the characters, but still wary of the medium?



> And Dick is the most recognizable Robin. Heck, he's the Robin in the Young Justice cartoon. He was the Robin in TT and The Batman. I don't see him wearing green panties.



There's a distinct difference between the roles of Batgirl and Robin in the Batman family. One is a sidekick, one isn't. Barbara was never really a sidekick to Batman; Robin was. The entire reason behind putting Dick into the Nightwing costume was so that he could be independent of Batman and be his own character.

Dick going to Robin is like Roy Harper becoming Speedy again and following around Green Arrow. Barbara going to Batgirl is closer to Roy Harper becoming Arsenal again (circa Titans era, not cat-swinging era). One is a step back, the other is really a name change. It's not like Barbara becoming Batgirl is suddenly limiting her character in some way. Dick becoming Robin _would_ limit his character in a far more noticeable way.



> Based on? If a company tells me they are catering to 18-34 straight males, it's telling me the rest of their audience is secondary. Especially hypocrital when they preached about diversity.



Based on? I don't understand what you mean by diversity here. Yes, we have three girls on the sidelines... as well as the majority of the JSA. How many old white guys do I need to take off the pages to make it balanced?



> Without having to worry about continuity? They are not changing anything. This is not a full reboot. The continuity is still there. Edited, but mostly unchanged. At least when it comes to Batman. Which, by the way, is making things more confusing for the "new readers". Batman is the same, but Superman and WW are not.



Crisis on Infinite Earths was not a full-reboot, either. They kept a lot of the Batman stuff, such as Nightwing and Jason Todd. I mean, "Batman is the same, but Superman and WW are not" really, really accurately describes post-COIE DC.



> You know which characters could have used the reboot? The Marvel family. Elastic Man and Sue Dibny. The former are still MIA. The latter are still dead.



Who knows.



> Yeah, yeah, they may be in the second cut. But I find it stupid curious that Rob Fucking Liedfield is in the first batch, but Marcus To is not.



Look, I agree. For me, I can't believe Amanda Conner is not in the first launch, but apparently she is working on something, so that's good.



> Yes, there are. You don't expand your audience by catering to the same audience you have been losing for the past 15 years. You find new markets. Cartoons, for fuck sake, are the easiest way to do that. Cartoons are mostly kid friendly, more visible, they generate interest and are much much easier to market overseas.



But they've been doing that for how long now? I mean, I was 8 when the original B:TAS came out, and here we are today with Batman: The Brave and the Bold and Young Justice. The problem is that you'll get people like my brother, who are interested in the cartoons but aren't drawn into the comics. A huge jumping on point with advertisements and a digital download plan? I mean, they could advertise in their own shows, for Christ's sake.



> The thing is... this is not drastic. Maybe for Superman and WW. But for Batman? What's really changing? All the Robins are still there, except the one with boobs, the history is intact - if compressed - the only major change seems to be Babs walking again and for what they are telling us, is not even a retcon.



Well, we'll have to wait for that. I mean, I can speculate, but that's all it is. Again, did Batman change all that much in 1986?



> This isn't daring. Daring would have been a full reboot. Start from scratch. That would take balls. This? Is trying to have your cake and eat it too.



I'd disagree. While a full reboot is daring, no one has done an absolutely full reboot. I think it's unfair to say that to be daring you need to erase everything. But again, opinions differ.



> I never said change isn't good. I'm saying this is a shoddy way to do it.



I guess that's fair enough. I wish DC had planned it out more, too. I don't think it's shoddy, just not as big as it could have been. Do something like this after Final Crisis or Infinite Crisis, and I think it would have been better.



> Look I don't want to rain on your parade. I'm not telling you that you are wrong for being excited about this. I'm glad at least somebody is. But for me, this is a dumb move. I don't want DC to crash and burn, I really don't. But I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.



It's... it's not that you are raining on _my_ parade. I mean, I'm not writing the damned new books. I'm just going to read them.

I think my problem is that it seems like there so much negative surrounding the concept of rebooting for reasons I largely think are small. People are angry that their books aren't continuing, and that their characters aren't in the first wave. I don't think that should really blind people to thinking about all the good stuff that can come out of a drastic cleaning of continuity on a scale we've not seen in nearly 25 years. If anything, the past 25 years should say, more than anything, to give this a chance.

Oh, and as awesome as a DC Ultimate line would be, it's not enough. Marvel's Ultimate line should be enough to show that even with some awesome books, it will never be big enough to really matter. The rise and fall of the Ultimate shows that you need to do things to the continuity that matters to really grab people. Plus, bringing the digital market around needed a big story to headlines. DC starting an Ultimate line wouldn't have done that.


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## LIL_M0 (Jun 22, 2011)

Wall. Of. Text.


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## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

wait what did simone say about the wasp, im curious


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 22, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> No, I'm frustrated that it seems like people aren't giving her a chance because it's not Brian Q. Miller writing Steph. It's the fact that people are so bitter about losing a book that they won't give the new one a chance.
> 
> I believe it's called "Ted Kord Syndrome".



Understandable, but for me it's a combination of 2 things. First, I thought BQM's Batgirl was a great book. It was lighthearted and fun and I looked forward to it every month. It was pretty much everything I wanted from a batgirl book.



> There's a distinct difference between the roles of Batgirl and Robin in the Batman family. One is a sidekick, one isn't. Barbara was never really a sidekick to Batman; Robin was. The entire reason behind putting Dick into the Nightwing costume was so that he could be independent of Batman and be his own character.



Here's where the second reason comes in. I love Babs. I love her in her few stories as batgirl, in addition to her role as Oracle. I love Gail Simone, and I think she's THE Babs Gordon writer.

However, I don't think the batgirl role should be held by an adult, and I don't think its worth cancelling a good batgirl book just so babs can be batgirl again.

I know it's not a sidekick role, but for me it's still a young/non adult role. 

I would have thought that with a non crippled babs, DC could do more than just make her be Batgirl again.


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## Bender (Jun 22, 2011)

Eh, the DC reboot is really gritting on my nerves. I understand where the nay sayers are coming from. DC is cutting out all of the positive elements of their books IMO.


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 22, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> Wall. Of. Text.



You knew what you were getting into when you knew I posted in this thread.



Petes12 said:


> wait what did simone say about the wasp, im curious



She was glad that she was killed off way back in Secret Invasion.

.

I did find it funny that the first blog I looked at called Wasp a woman of color, without realizing that regular Wasp is... well, a WASP.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Understandable, but for me it's a combination of 2 things. First, I thought BQM's Batgirl was a great book. It was lighthearted and fun and I looked forward to it every month. It was pretty much everything I wanted from a batgirl book.



I'm going to be looking for the trade of it when it finishes up. I've only really gotten glimpses of it, and I hardly want to hate on it. I just don't think that it's fair to judge a book because another is getting a different character. If it was like that, we wouldn't have a Jaime Reyes.

Edit: I also don't want to compare Batgirl fans to the horribly misguided Ted Kord fans who ripped on Jaime Reyes. It's a loose comparison only.



> Here's where the second reason comes in. I love Babs. I love her in her few stories as batgirl, in addition to her role as Oracle. I love Gail Simone, and I think she's THE Babs Gordon writer.
> 
> However, I don't think the batgirl role should be held by an adult, and I don't think its worth cancelling a good batgirl book just so babs can be batgirl again.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I kind of wish they hadn't taken Batwoman with Kathy Kane (Who, apparently, is wearing a costume which was designed for Barbara if she were to come back). Though, again, we accept Power "Girl" despite her age (I never got on board with Alex Ross calling her Power Woman. Never sounded right...).

I dunno. I can't really defend a series I have yet to read other than trusting an author who has largely impressed me with her work.


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## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

man she really takes criticism seriously. I'd have just said 'lighten the fuck up, wasp sucks'


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 22, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I'm going to be looking for the trade of it when it finishes up. I've only really gotten glimpses of it, and I hardly want to hate on it. I just don't think that it's fair to judge a book because another is getting a different character. If it was like that, we wouldn't have a Jaime Reyes.
> 
> Edit: I also don't want to compare Batgirl fans to the horribly misguided Ted Kord fans who ripped on Jaime Reyes. It's a loose comparison only.



It starts off kinda meh, but I feel like for the last 15 issues it's been good, and for the last 10 it's been really good. With two or three issues (one of them being the most recent) that are awesome.

And yea, Ted Kord fans are ridiculous. Blue Beetle was a great book, and the Reach arc was one of the biggest "why would you ever cancel this book!?" arcs in recent memory.

Like I said, the batgirl thing bothers me because it seems like they are cancelling a good book just to free up a name.



> Yeah, I kind of wish they hadn't taken Batwoman with Kathy Kane (Who, apparently, is wearing a costume which was designed for Barbara if she were to come back). Though, again, we accept Power "Girl" despite her age (I never got on board with Alex Ross calling her Power Woman. Never sounded right...).
> 
> I dunno. I can't really defend a series I have yet to read other than trusting an author who has largely impressed me with her work.



I'd be fine with Kate Kane getting benched so Babs could be Batwoman. Admittedly I've never been crazy about Batwoman (although the Rucka/Williams TEC arc WAS really really good), and I know she definitely has her fans.


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## illmatic (Jun 22, 2011)

Kathy Kane & kate Kane are said to be 2 different people 

I am pretty sure it was established that way somewhere in the Grant Morrison' Batman run.


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## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea this kind of annoyed me. Marcus To is a really solid artist. Not WTFAMAZING, but certainly much better than someone whose reputation is built out of being a shitty artist.
> 
> But the creative teams here are another big thing that bugs me. It's their usual workhorses just put on new books. Hopefully this new universe allows them to release some kind of hidden potential?



He's also very popular.



Petes12 said:


> wait what did simone say about the wasp, im curious





And this came from the same women who started the Women in Refrigerators list. That's why it was a big deal.


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## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

I'll spoiler tag this, since it's getting too long


*Spoiler*: __ 







Guy Gardner said:


> Let's be a little less ranty with this one...
> 
> Eh, I guess I'm just different. I don't follow things for the characters; more the individual stories. You give me something compelling, and I'll read it whether it's Superman or Solomon Grundy.



If the characters don't interest me, I don't care about the story. Different strokes for different folks.



Guy Gardner said:


> I guess it's just because I don't get the anger. I understand being irritated, but I just don't get what comes off as real _anger_ here.



I'm more sad than angry, to be honest. But I can understand why people get angry over this. Most of us get attached, and that generates a passion that can lead to anger.



Guy Gardner said:


> Look, before Rebirth Guy Gardner was
> 
> - In a coma for years.
> - Trapped in the Phantom Zone for years.
> ...



I'm not saying it doesn't happen to other characters. Or that it can't get better. But given their track record and how little Didio cares about these characters, I'm not getting my hopes up.



Guy Gardner said:


> I mean, it's not like it could get any worse for Donna...



Yes, it can.



Guy Gardner said:


> Fair enough, I suppose. Out of all the writers I've followed, I always felt she was the most versatile when it came to writing. Personal taste is personal, though.



I like some of the stuff she writes, but I don't blindly praise everything she does.



Guy Gardner said:


> No, I'm frustrated that it seems like people aren't giving her a chance because it's not Brian Q. Miller writing Steph. It's the fact that people are so bitter about losing a book that they won't give the new one a chance.
> 
> I believe it's called "Ted Kord Syndrome".



Well, some people are not giving it a chance because they believe it's ableist or a regression. I love what Mr. Miller has done with Steph, but he is not the first (and not the last I hope) that has done a good job with her. 

I hated what they did to Cass, yet still gave Steph a chance. I hated what they did to Ted, but I still gave Jaime a chance. 



Guy Gardner said:


> To be honest? It's because you keep concentrating on the characters who are going to be gone for a little while, rather than looking at what's new. While I understand the irritation, it's not like these characters are getting killed off in useless and insulting ways like Ryan Choi (Or Bucky Barnes, depending on how Fear Itself continues). They might still be in books or once again get their own books (If Amanda Conner is working on something, it certainly could be a new Power Girl book).
> 
> It seems to be just blown completely out of proportion to me.



I don't. I'm sad about them and I think DC is screwing up, but I am excited about _some_ of the titles. But most of these don't interest me at all. Is not just because my favourite characters are not in the relaunch. Roy Harper is not my favourite character and I can't wait to see what they do with him in the Jason book.



Guy Gardner said:


> They are going back to Babs because she's the original, she's recognizable, and (amazingly enough) she doesn't have very many Batgirl stories told about her. It's an easy change which has been talked about for a long time and why not do it now when you are trying to attract people who are interested in the characters, but still wary of the medium?



I disagree about this being an easy change.

How many people that don't already read comics are _really_ interested in Babsgirl? Let's be honest here.

Yeah, I don't get why they don't try to - you know - market their other Batgirls. All the Robins appeared in other media. Except the female one. 



Guy Gardner said:


> There's a distinct difference between the roles of Batgirl and Robin in the Batman family. One is a sidekick, one isn't. Barbara was never really a sidekick to Batman; Robin was. The entire reason behind putting Dick into the Nightwing costume was so that he could be independent of Batman and be his own character.



I disagree. While Batgirl was not a sidekick, she was under the shadow of the bat. I see Batgirl as a stepping stone. Oracle was her own identity, just like Nightwing was Dick's own identity.



Guy Gardner said:


> Dick going to Robin is like Roy Harper becoming Speedy again and following around Green Arrow. Barbara going to Batgirl is closer to Roy Harper becoming Arsenal again (circa Titans era, not cat-swinging era). One is a step back, the other is really a name change. It's not like Barbara becoming Batgirl is suddenly limiting her character in some way. Dick becoming Robin _would_ limit his character in a far more noticeable way.



I respectfully disagree.

As Oracle Babs was a member of the Justice League. She had her own team. Her own _legacy_. 



Guy Gardner said:


> Based on? I don't understand what you mean by diversity here. Yes, we have three girls on the sidelines... as well as the majority of the JSA. How many old white guys do I need to take off the pages to make it balanced?



We have 2 female writers involved in this reboot. Among how many males? We not only lost two Batgirls and Donna. We lost Power Girl, Zatanna is now in a team book, Harley Quinn is unrecognizable, Manhunter is missing, Renee Montoya is missing, Huntress is missing, only one woman in the JS line-up... need I go on?



Guy Gardner said:


> Crisis on Infinite Earths was not a full-reboot, either. They kept a lot of the Batman stuff, such as Nightwing and Jason Todd. I mean, "Batman is the same, but Superman and WW are not" really, really accurately describes post-COIE DC.



I never said it was.



Guy Gardner said:


> Look, I agree. For me, I can't believe Amanda Conner is not in the first launch, but apparently she is working on something, so that's good.



I thought that was a rumour?



Guy Gardner said:


> But they've been doing that for how long now? I mean, I was 8 when the original B:TAS came out, and here we are today with Batman: The Brave and the Bold and Young Justice. The problem is that you'll get people like my brother, who are interested in the cartoons but aren't drawn into the comics. A huge jumping on point with advertisements and a digital download plan? I mean, they could advertise in their own shows, for Christ's sake.



Use the cartoons to introduce your new characters, to start. And maybe your brother wasn't interested, but I know a lot of people that caught up with the comics _because _of Young Justice.



Guy Gardner said:


> Well, we'll have to wait for that. I mean, I can speculate, but that's all it is. Again, did Batman change all that much in 1986?



The tone certainly did change.



Guy Gardner said:


> I'd disagree. While a full reboot is daring, no one has done an absolutely full reboot. I think it's unfair to say that to be daring you need to erase everything. But again, opinions differ.



There are other ways. This isn't one of them imo.



Guy Gardner said:


> I guess that's fair enough. I wish DC had planned it out more, too. I don't think it's shoddy, just not as big as it could have been. Do something like this after Final Crisis or Infinite Crisis, and I think it would have been better.



Well, if they had retconned TKJ a few months after it happened or if they hadn't made such a mess to begin with, the situation would be different. But what's done is done.



Guy Gardner said:


> It's... it's not that you are raining on _my_ parade. I mean, I'm not writing the damned new books. I'm just going to read them.
> 
> I think my problem is that it seems like there so much negative surrounding the concept of rebooting for reasons I largely think are small. People are angry that their books aren't continuing, and that their characters aren't in the first wave. I don't think that should really blind people to thinking about all the good stuff that can come out of a drastic cleaning of continuity on a scale we've not seen in nearly 25 years. If anything, the past 25 years should say, more than anything, to give this a chance.
> 
> Oh, and as awesome as a DC Ultimate line would be, it's not enough. Marvel's Ultimate line should be enough to show that even with some awesome books, it will never be big enough to really matter. The rise and fall of the Ultimate shows that you need to do things to the continuity that matters to really grab people. Plus, bringing the digital market around needed a big story to headlines. DC starting an Ultimate line wouldn't have done that.



But the thing is... continuity is not being cleaned. Not when it comes to Batman and GL.


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## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> He's also very popular.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



not seeing the problem hahaha

I'm sorry I've found wasp to be utterly uninteresting at best.

she can't even make a joke like that about a fictional character without people getting offended? isnt she allowed to hate characters and hope for their demise like the rest of us?


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## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> not seeing the problem hahaha
> 
> I'm sorry I've found wasp to be utterly uninteresting at best.
> 
> she can't even make a joke like that about a fictional character without people getting offended? isnt she allowed to hate characters and hope for their demise like the rest of us?



Gail Simone is known for being against the Women in Refrigerators trope and a feminist champion. Seeing her gleefully celebrate the violent death of a female character was a shock for many. 

Yeah, it's ok to dislike a character. But when you preach about how violence against women is so wrong and needs to stop, this "it's ok as long as I don't like the character" makes you look like an hypocrite.


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## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

I know what woman in refrigerators is, I still think it's ridiculous that she's not allowed to joke about how she's glad they killed off a particular character she doesn't like. 

And really, who can blame her, it's WASP.


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## Glued (Jun 22, 2011)

Wait, is this about how regular Wasp grew out of control and Thor had to put her down or Ultimate Wasp who was cannibalized by the Blob?


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## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

Regular Wasp, if I'm not mistaken.

Don't let me get started on the "tastes like chicken" one.



Petes12 said:


> I know what woman in refrigerators is, I still think it's ridiculous that she's not allowed to joke about how she's glad they killed off a particular character she doesn't like.
> 
> And really, who can blame her, it's WASP.



I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have been happy if somebody celebrated the death/fridging of a character _she_ liked.

Heck, Babs TKJ story has the infamous "cripple the bitch". Either you think violence against women is wrong, no matter how annoying you think the character is, or you admit that you don't care as long as it doesn't happen to your favourite character.


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## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

I think its silly to say you can never ever hurt a fictional woman character. And I think it's silly for people to get up in arms over what's obviously an off-hand joke.


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## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

Nobody is saying you can't hurt a female character. But for somebody that created the women in refrigerator list, who was very passionate about not killing or hurting female characters for the sake of the male ones, yeah...

It's like seeing somebody rant against racism, unless it's against asians, because he doesn't like asians.


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## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

Don't really see how Wasp's death does anything for the male characters, except maybe hank pym who bendis doesn't even seem interested in writing. BUT it is not the same as racism against real people. Because wasp isn't a real person. And she's a character gail didnt like specifically because she seemed to reinforce a lot of bad female stereotypes in comics. Which I get, cus what I've seen of the wasp hasn't exactly been positive.


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## gabzilla (Jun 22, 2011)

Well, of course is not the same, I meant characters, I should have been clearer.

Even Gail realized she was wrong, so...


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 22, 2011)

I agree with gabzilla on this one.

It's not because it's a woman, and I don't think most people are angry about that. It's not because it's violent, because the maxim Alan Moore gave us in Watchmen: "Violent lives, ending violently."

It's really because it goes against Women in Refrigerators idea. The death wasn't really born of a plot necessity, nor was it built up. It wasn't heroic or poignant or satisfying in any way. It was just... there.

Now I fucking hate Wasp (only moreso that I've seen her in _Earth's Mightiest Heroes_) and I honestly didn't shed a tear when she died. Honestly, when a character's biggest accomplishment is that she was beaten by her husband, there's something wrong.

But my own dislikes aside, her death was positively insulting. If one of my favorite characters died like that, I would have a fucking _shit-fit_. In comics, due to the inherent heroic nature of the characters, deaths need to be a bit more heroic and grand than in most other media. You have to respect the character and give them a chance to shine, even if you hate them. If Wasp is going to die, why not have her do something insanely heroic? Why not have her stand in the way of a Black Bolt Skrull who plans on demolishing the better part of Manhattan, or stop the Empire State Building from collapsing? Why not have her at least weaken the Skrull Queen, or do something which was indispensable to the battle? I mean, I can't remember anything about her in that whole series besides her dying, and that isn't really a good thing.

Not that it couldn't be. I don't remember much about Supergirl during the original Crisis besides her death. But that's mostly because her death is arguably the best executed comic book death _of all time_. Seriously, not only does she save Superman from destruction, but she saves all of reality and pounds the Anti-Monitor so badly that he has to retreat, buying everyone valuable time. Seriously, read her death and try _not_ to cry. It's done with such care and respect that it feels truly meaningful. 

That death is very violent (she gets fucking nailed with that laser, with her suit tearing apart and all). But it's not about the violence, or the gender, or whatever. It's about the character and the meaning put into the death:

Why did Supergirl die? To save her cousin and the universe.

Why did Wasp die? Because Brian Michael Bendis needed to kill someone, and Black Goliath was already dead.

(As an aside: being a "Giant" person in Marvel is a fucking death sentence, isn't it? I mean, you'd think they were all engaged to Kyle Rayner or something...)

Now I know all deaths can't be hugely heroic like that, but you need to respect the character. And that's the bigger thing here; it's not just Women in Refrigerators, but Characters in Refrigerators. Shock deaths for the sake of shock deaths just don't work, even less so when you know they are coming *coughbuckybarnescough*. We need to expand our focus and unite here, people, not divide ourselves. 

And just to give proper due, this is a huge problem in DC as well. Geoff Johns, as much as I can like his stuff, has a habit of doing this way too much. Ryan Choi's death is easily one of the worst, and Martian Manhunter's would have been worse if it hadn't been expanded on in his little Final Crisis tie-in (which made it better... though looking back it still is okay at best).


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 22, 2011)

Wall of text on all sides...my attention span can't compute...

For all intents and purposes though, i'm going to at least try and give the majority of the reboot a chance...Yes even I Vampire, for which I have no clue as to why DC would want to bring it back. The only thing i'm going to refuse to read is Hawk and Dove, because I fucking hate Rob Liefeld.

Personally though after thinking things over, i'm really in the middle ground on this...it might be because I wasn't that big of a DC fan up until a couple of years ago...or it might be because I just want to see DC actually pull it off. But am I going to be angry if Cass or Steph doesn't make it into a book right away...or other characters I like for that matter. Annoyed maybe, but not angry. Being benched for a while is better than being dead in my opinion, and besides these characters will be back eventually.

Also for all intents and purposes, Wasp wasn't exactly an exciting character, and most people only remember her, because Hank slapped her...or for that stint where she became Giant Woman. I wasn't angry when she died ...nor was I happy. I was unimpressed, because Wasp was a boring character, and had been for years. Though I can understand why people would be angry over it though.


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## Taleran (Jun 23, 2011)

I am choosing what I am going to read in September by creator. I don't have any specific love for any characters of the DCU at least not enough to get me to buy a book with a wonky team on it.

So right now there are 4 titles I am definitely interested in. Everything else is a wait and see basis.


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## Parallax (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm gonna be giving a few of the more obscure titles a shot.  Plus Batman and Action Comics are musts.


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## Slice (Jun 23, 2011)

I will read about 1/3 of the books that come out from day one for a few issues. Then i will decide what is worth buying.

As much as i prefer Oracle, i am giving Babsgirl a chance because a good story > all.


I agree with Guy on character death and being benched, even when he reminded me of Guy Gardner: Warrior - i hated that one.
Also he made me want to re read CoiE.


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## Glued (Jun 23, 2011)

What you talking about Guy Gardner: Warrior, was awesome.

God I miss the 90s EXTREME.


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## Parallax (Jun 23, 2011)

I think you are the only one.


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## MrChubz (Jun 23, 2011)

You guys don't live life on the *eeeeeedge!1!* so you wouldn't understand. Although, if you do just take 90's extreme at face value and embrace it, it is awesome. Sort of like if you just roll with the goofiness of the Silver Age it becomes great.


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## Parallax (Jun 23, 2011)

I was there for the 90's man I remember it.

Looking back what the hell where we thinking.


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## Taleran (Jun 24, 2011)

I remember the 90s for producing some of the greatest comics ever.

I don't care about the shit.


Side note bloggers have been doing lists of their 52 if they were running DC and this one is awesome

Warning long read.


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## Petes12 (Jun 24, 2011)

not enough batman 

also if they did gotham central again... I'd sort of want Allen and Montoya back in that. They felt like the main characters. I wonder what Gotham Central would've been like with Gordon


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## LIL_M0 (Jun 24, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> not enough batman
> 
> also if they did gotham central again... I'd sort of want Allen and Montoya back in that. They felt like the main characters. I wonder what Gotham Central would've been like with Gordon



Detective Comics before they cancelled the back-ups?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 24, 2011)

Taleran said:


> I remember the 90s for producing some of the greatest comics ever.
> 
> I don't care about the shit.
> 
> ...



Some ballsy proposals in making some comics double and triple-sized.

And damn, that is a long read.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh and Multiversity, is that dead in the water?

There isn't a multiverse anymore is there?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 24, 2011)

I dont know why you'd assume that.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 24, 2011)

Well just after taking all this trouble to cram everything into place together, to explode it with a Multiverse would seem counter productive.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 24, 2011)

From what I understand, on the main DCU, New Earth, is rebooted.


----------



## Bender (Jun 24, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> also if they did gotham central again... I'd sort of want Allen and Montoya back in that.




Aye, same here. I liked it better when Crispus Allen was a cop rather then The Spectre. Felt a bit unusual for me. 



			
				Taleran said:
			
		

> I am choosing what I am going to read in September by creator.



Ditto


----------



## illmatic (Jun 24, 2011)

*DC’s Retailer Roadshow* *in Baltimore*



> Didio for all the heat he gets, was the most passionate of the bunch in explaining this initiative. He really won us over with some of this generalizing about the trend in comics to write for trades and to bet on the eventual sale or perpetual sale of of collected editions. We sell a lot of trade, but waiting for the trade syndrome is not helping us sell periodicals ultimately.
> 
> Didio stated “*Were not building for trades with this, were building for periodicals*.  Jim Lee added “C*omics needed to jump into immediate story, ramping into action*.”



Well that's a nice thought


> Of the 52 all but four will be $2.99. Action, All Star Western, & Men At War will be $3.99 each.



good.



> *“The higher the sales, the less is changed”*


the way it worked



> The word Superhero doesn’t exist yet.



JLA to be start of Superheros in DCU



> Batman : As Urban legend, has been around a little longer than Superman coming out to the world.



sounds like its closer to the movies 



> Batgirl : Killing Joke and Oracle stories happened, Barbara dealing with being an hero again.



will make some happy if true



> *Real time comic book store news on Cartoon Network*
> 
> DC Nation Block coming up on cartoon Network that will act as real time comic book store news on Cartoon Network and more possibly featuring adverts for getting things at your local comic store, or tickers letting viewers know whats going on in comic stores nationwide.



hmmm


----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 24, 2011)

Sounding a little better now


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 24, 2011)

You know that article is actually making me feel a bit easier about the bat books...though with Batman being an Urban Legend...some of the stuff with Oracle is a bit confusing to say the least.

This Reboot will be bumpy...and the lack of actual diversity...as well as lack of some of the more obscure characters like the Metal Men...or hell even Captain Marvel (We get freaking Omac but neither of those? come on DC) but, i'm going to keep an open mind


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 24, 2011)

i dunno how you can begrudge them for leaving out metal men...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 24, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i dunno how you can begrudge them for leaving out metal men...



I'm not lol, I know Metal Men is a odd choice, but it's no more odd than I Vampire or Omac. 

There's probably about a half dozen other series I would choose before them.


----------



## Rod (Jun 25, 2011)

> Batman : As Urban legend, has been around a little longer than Superman coming out to the world.



Well it kinda seemed the case by the JLA solicit. :0

thx Thor for the infos!


----------



## C-No (Jun 25, 2011)

I gotta say I really don't like what they're planning on doing to Tim Drake. And then it also leaves a few characters that were already lacking in panel time out of the loop. Connor Hawke has fallen off alot of people's maps and also, what's gonna happen to Cassandra?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 25, 2011)

C-No said:


> I gotta say I really don't like what they're planning on doing to Tim Drake. And then it also leaves a few characters that were already lacking in panel time out of the loop. Connor Hawke has fallen off alot of people's maps and also, what's gonna happen to Cassandra?



At the very least, I'm glad they've left Tim having been Robin still in continuity. So its basically he was Robin, then I guess he quit, and the Teen Titans book is him getting back in the game. Which works(minus the new costume)


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 25, 2011)

God, I nearly forgot Conner existed.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 25, 2011)

So the reboot *is* changing character histories?

*Reads preview of Teen Titans*

So after showing the real development of Tim over 200 issues of Robin and Red Robin, how he came into his own after Bruce died they're just going "FUCK IT!" and whiping it away.

Dammit DC, do you not want my money?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 25, 2011)

Goddamit, was he ever a Wayne?

And now he suddenly doesn't know Cassie and Bart after a good eight years of Teen Titans?

And where's Ravager?

What about Steph who came into existence as a Robin and Batfamily character? Or the Lynx sub-plot? His relationships with Bruce and Dick and Damian? Ra'Ah Ghul's focus on him? His Neon-Knights program? His pretence of temporary-crippeling? His bonding with Cassandra?

And let me say now the idea of Batman just being a Urban Legend in an era of superheroes and CCTV is retarded. It'd last a couple of months at most.

What do the writers who spent years developing this stuff think anyway?


----------



## Bender (Jun 25, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> *And let me say now the idea of Batman just being a Urban Legend in an era of superheroes and CCTV is retarded. It'd last a couple of months at most.
> *




Aye, I agree. Seriously, that shit is getting retarded as fuck. They pulled off that Batman-is-a-urban-legend schtick last reboot.  Show some goddamn originality DC.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 25, 2011)

I miss Connor. I liked him 

I miss Mia too.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 25, 2011)

The problem is this:

I looked at the lineup for the Young Justice cartoon and I don't really want to watch it. I may well still give it a go but it just seems like none of the characters I know are how I know them and that bugs me. I watched the episode with Klarion and he seemed like a totally different person.

How much more when I'm reading Tim Drake who I really like and know from what, 12 years of comics.

Either:

1) He changes and that really bugs me because he'll seems like Tim in name only

Or

2) He stays the same, re-living past events from previous comics in which case what's the point?

I admit it's possible there is a third way

3) He is rebooted but written well

But thats a lot to ask of anyone, even really great writers.

I wnated to see what Tim or Steph or Ravager would do next, not see them do it again or see some else doing it.

I have said this before and I'll say it again: People get pissed off when their fave characters are killed badly but at least they may well be revived in the future. If their history is changed they're being killed stupidly *and* can never be revived because they're a totally different person.


----------



## Bender (Jun 25, 2011)

^

Feh, I've given up on Tim Drake. Dude looks like one of those dancers in Las Vegas gay clubs. I mean he looks really REALLY effing ridiculous.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 25, 2011)

He's


----------



## Bender (Jun 25, 2011)

^

   

@ drawings


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 25, 2011)

Tim doesn't looke great but he does look okay.

It's everyone else who looks totally arse.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 25, 2011)

tim hasnt been rebooted, other than his relationships with the teen titans i guess


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 25, 2011)

Tim doesn't look _that_ bad but you have to admit his wings are a joke asking to be made.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 25, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> tim hasnt been rebooted, other than his relationships with the teen titans i guess



Yeah, seriously. Where the hell are we getting this from?


----------



## Bender (Jun 25, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Yeah, seriously. Where the hell are we getting this from?



That's what peeves me off. He restarts his position in the DCU as  Didio (or whoever) says: "he's stepping from away the keyboard to become a hero." It just sounds so ridiculous.

Oh yeah and there are those wings as Gabzilla said.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 25, 2011)

Bender said:


> That's what peeves me off. He restarts his position in the DCU as  Didio (or whoever) says: "he's stepping from away the keyboard to become a hero." It just sounds so ridiculous.
> 
> Oh yeah and there are those wings as Gabzilla said.



I know the solict, but it seems to go in the face of what Lobdell said.



			
				Scott Lobdell @ Bleeding Cool said:
			
		

> Tim Drake is a perfect example.  *Yes, he figured out Bruce’s secret identity and yes he became Robin and yes things happened in his past that prompted him to move on from that role and become Red Robin.*  How long ago was that?  What brought him from there to issue one of Teen Titans?



I mean, this seems to be indicating that just about all of his stuff is still intact, and it's from the writer himself. Let's find some better sources than solicts, which can be rather deceptive.

Oh, and you're missing out with YJ. The characters might be different (Really, Wally is the biggest change), but it's definitely one of the better cartoons out there.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 25, 2011)

I'll give it a go...

But there is a serious Ravager shortage


----------



## Bender (Jun 25, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I know the solict, but it seems to go in the face of what Lobdell said.
> 
> 
> 
> > Tim Drake is a perfect example. Yes, he figured out Bruce?s secret identity and yes he became Robin and *yes things happened* in his past that prompted him to move on from that role and become Red Robin. How long ago was that? What brought him from there to issue one of Teen Titans?



That remains to be seen. It'd help more if they specify which bits of his past are happening.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Tim doesn't look _that_ bad but you have to admit his wings are a joke asking to be made.



They're not doing much to dissuade the tim/kon fans in this reboot, are they?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 25, 2011)

Besides from making Kon even more ugly and stupid looking?


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 25, 2011)

The Young Justice cartoon is awesome.



Petes12 said:


> They're not doing much to dissuade the tim/kon fans in this reboot, are they?



Pft, nothing can dissuade tim/kon fans.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 25, 2011)

did they start playing new episodes of that?


----------



## Bender (Jun 25, 2011)

^


The Make Tim and Conner a gay couple thread on comicbookresources forums make


----------



## Taleran (Jun 25, 2011)

The strange list.

Every DC creator currently not writing a book in September.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 25, 2011)

I'm glad some of those names aren't showing up in any titles...


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 25, 2011)

indeed, 3 or 4 in particular. there's plenty on there that I wish would show up though.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 25, 2011)

yeah I agree

I'm sure they'll have things in the near future

I just wish the fate of Xombi would be released :[


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 25, 2011)

its fate is clear haha


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 25, 2011)

Taleran said:


> The strange list.
> 
> Every DC creator currently not writing a book in September.



_Bryan Q. Miller
Jock
Nicola Scott 
Amanda Conner 
Dustin Nguyen_

But Liefeld gets a book. 

List is missing Marcus To.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 25, 2011)

at least scott is working on something


----------



## Parallax (Jun 25, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> its fate is clear haha



not cool man


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 25, 2011)

i know, i'm awful today


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 25, 2011)

C-No said:


> I gotta say I really don't like what they're planning on doing to Tim Drake. And then it also leaves a few characters that were already lacking in panel time out of the loop. Connor Hawke has fallen off alot of people's maps and also, what's gonna happen to Cassandra?



I miss Connor...I miss him bad



The Pink Ninja said:


> I'll give it a go...
> 
> But there is a serious Ravager shortage



Meh she'll probably show up in Deathstroke or something...though to be frank I've never really liked Rose all that much




Petes12 said:


> did they start playing new episodes of that?



Just one, it's Red Arrow centric, and has the debuts of Lex Luthor and Ra's Al Ghoul



gabzilla said:


> _Bryan Q. Miller
> Jock
> Nicola Scott
> Amanda Conner
> ...



DC's reverting back to the 90's they have to dig up Liefeld from his exile.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 25, 2011)

I don't think its the 90s

With the books they are releasing if anything it reminds me of the final issue of New Frontier. Maybe with a slightly 90s paint job.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 25, 2011)

I will assume every DC creator currently not attached to a book in September is working on secret project


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 25, 2011)

I know most of them will be part of future projects but it's weird that DC is not using some of their best and most popular writers/artists in a relaunch that is so "important"



Emperor Joker said:


> DC's reverting back to the 90's they have to dig up Liefeld from his exile.



And have jim Lee re-design the costumes.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I know most of them will be part of future projects but it's weird that DC is not using some of their *best and most popular *writers/artists in a relaunch that is so "important"
> 
> 
> 
> And have jim Lee re-design the costumes.



say what you will in terms of sales and fan favorites Lee, Johns, and Morrison are as A list as it gets.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

Sad, but true. :/



not sure if want


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 26, 2011)

Not sure why you wouldn't.

For Batgirl or Firestorm I wonder. If it's a couple for Firestorm, I don't think we've seen Killer Frost in a while have we? maybe it's her.

San Diego Comic Con's not for another month...going to be a long wait then.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Sad, but true. :/
> 
> 
> 
> not sure if want



I'm confused... whats sad or bad about that? It looks like good news.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

As I said before, I don't know if I want Cass and Steph as one panel props for Babsgirl.

Besides, after some of the comments Gail Simone made about them... I don't know. I'll believe it when I see.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 26, 2011)

What did she say about Steph and Cass?


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

The interview she gave about the new Batgirl series:



> Now, when citizens of that city look up, they are going to see BATGIRL.



And the general tone of her interview, implying Cass or Steph weren't real Batgirls. It just rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it was only me. :/

I will remain cautiously optimistic, though.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 26, 2011)

Ah, I see. Gotcha.

This whole Batgirl thing just made me realize. If Barbara is regaining the use of her legs and is back to Batgirling, we probably won't get to see what Morrison's Internet 3.0 was about. Thats too bad, I was looking forward to that.


----------



## Rod (Jun 26, 2011)

Looking back at it, really suggests that was a case of testing waters, remember that _"seemingly innocent" _small panel of her standing again in _Batman: The Return_ caused some controversy/confusion back then.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> Ah, I see. Gotcha.
> 
> This whole Batgirl thing just made me realize. If Barbara is regaining the use of her legs and is back to Batgirling, we probably won't get to see what Morrison's Internet 3.0 was about. Thats too bad, I was looking forward to that.



I thought the issue where they do their internet thing was already solicited


----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 26, 2011)

Rod said:


> Looking back at it, really suggests that was a case of testing waters, remember that _"seemingly innocent" _small panel of her standing again in _Batman: The Return_ caused some controversy/confusion back then.



You know, I was wondering what the hell was up with that at the time. I kinda just shrugged it off. At least she looked cool in the picture..


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I thought the issue where they do their internet thing was already solicited



Oh, I didn't know that. Thats good to know.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

Rod said:


> Looking back at it, really suggests that was a case of testing waters, remember that _"seemingly innocent" _small panel of her standing again in _Batman: The Return_ caused some controversy/confusion back then.



Well, as far as I know, Barbara _was_ going to replace Cass as Batgirl (what was going to be her new outfit was later used as a base for Kate's) but they changed their minds and used Steph instead. Back then people were not happy with the idea, so I don't know what made them think they'd be happy with it now.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Well, as far as I know, Barbara _was_ going to replace Cass as Batgirl (what was going to be her new outfit was later used as a base for Kate's) but they changed their minds and used Steph instead. Back then people were not happy with the idea, so I don't know what made them think they'd be happy with it now.



It's not us that have changed. It's their goal to create comics that are really accessible and promotes DC properties noncomics people know thats new. Barbara is Batgirl now because she was on tv.

It's also probably fair to say they want to roll back on legacies because those do turn off new readers.


----------



## Rod (Jun 26, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> You know, I was wondering what the hell was up with that at the time. I kinda just shrugged it off. At least she looked cool in the picture..





gabzilla said:


> Well, as far as I know, Barbara _was_ going to replace Cass as Batgirl (what was going to be her new outfit was later used as a base for Kate's) but they changed their minds and used Steph instead. Back then people were not happy with the idea, so I don't know what made them think they'd be happy with it now.



Indeed Gabz, although these were two different moments, one for Batwoman mention a handful of years ago when they discarded the idea (Initially just that, with only later, and that being couple of years back then, deciding for Steph without necessarily relation between) then was brought up (publically, at least) again about November 2010 with the mysterious image of Barbara who caused discussions.

It's interesting to remember at the first suggestions of said developments Dan Didio was loudly negative about it making use of words such as: _"While I'm at DC, Barbara will never be retconned/ be Batgirl again"_ or somethhing around these (perhaps could be argued since she's not being retconned in the very sense of the word here), so indeed something happened (internally) to cause such 180.

Anyways, then again have to remember the staff of DC also called in the lastest years for not so _"hot in demand"_ decisions (Hal Jordan, Barry Allen to remind) that were more of a fruit on personal fluke wishes than popular claim per se, it reeks at least to me, another one of these.


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 26, 2011)

clearer image of justice league.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 26, 2011)

That Superman costume isn't the same one as the one on the Superman #1 image. Weird


----------



## Yulwei (Jun 26, 2011)

*Aquaman *- it's the same old Aquaman so whatever

*Green Lantern* - kinda bland but it'll do and there's no real deviation from his old outfit

*Wonder Woman* - what's with the stuff on her knees. Other than that give her top straps and I'm good

*Superman* - decent but why does it look like armour. I expect that belt to get redesigned several times

*Batman* - he should just dress like he does in Arkham Asylum. Outfit seems a bit too streamlined, where're the pouches bursting with gadgets and the chunky pieces of body armour

*Flash* - what's going on with shoes and chin. It's otherwise good

*Cyborg* - Mega Man boots. I hope this is his battlemode not his default appearance


----------



## Taleran (Jun 26, 2011)

http://www.wacken.com/en/woa2008/main-news/news/ansicht/article/neue-band-bestaetigt-opeth/



> I am SWAMPED and everyone in our house is sick, so this is going to be a bit of a drive-by post, but I have been seeing stirrings on the interwebs about the dearth of female writers in the DC re-boot and while I agree that, you know, MORE THAN ONE WOULD BE BETTER, I feel like I should mention that I was approached. (I’ve seen my name at least twice on lists of ‘folks DC should have talked to.’)
> 
> They did talk to me. I was approached twice.
> 
> ...



There might be some explanation on some the creative teams in here.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

The Justice League in full, I guess.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 26, 2011)

That image is on the last page Pete


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

oops. well it's slightly bigger! 

looks like ray palmer (why?), deadman, element woman/girl/whatever, firestorm, green arrow (), hawkman, mera annnnnd.... power girl? 

Love that diversity.


----------



## Bender (Jun 26, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> Ah, I see. Gotcha.
> 
> This whole Batgirl thing just made me realize. If Barbara is regaining the use of her legs and is back to Batgirling, we probably won't get to see what Morrison's Internet 3.0 was about. Thats too bad, I was looking forward to that.



Another reason why I hate the shit out of this reboot.


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 26, 2011)

I was hoping the DC reboot would give the characters more realistic and/or better looking costumes. From that image it just looks like they added alot of lines to each costume and slightly changed the colours. Teen titans costumes seem a bit odd too. They look cool i think, but not for modern superheroes.

I'm new to comics. Initially loved DC thanks to the DCAU, even though I watch the MAU first I guess. Although it's Marvel which seems to be continuously outshining DC for me, in terms of costumes and stories. Even movies, but that's different I guess.

I was looking for big crossover story lines to get me into each Marvel and DC, but Dc only has alternate universe storylines mostly from what I could find. I don't particularly like alternate universe storylines. Although Marvel had avengers disassembled, civil war, secret invasion, dark avengers and seige for me to read. They were good for what they were, had good art and set up the state of Marvel universe for me (well besides X-Men). But with DC I found I was only ever Superman and Batman comics which didn't do what wanted.

I bought birthright, read all-star and bought earth one superman stories for example, which are not set in main DC. I also read or bought all batman stuff that happened after he died and returned. Was good too, but only focused on Batman so I felt I had no idea what was going on in DC overall.

I'm hoping this DC reboot will allow me to get into it easily like I feel I got into Marvel atleast. With stories that sound more interesting too.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

Damn those designs are ugly.



Petes12 said:


> It's not us that have changed. It's their goal to create comics that are really accessible and promotes DC properties noncomics people know thats new. Barbara is Batgirl now because she was on tv.



To be honest, I don't think that was the major reason.



Petes12 said:


> It's also probably fair to say they want to roll back on legacies because those do turn off new readers.



...which explains why they kept all the Robins. Except the girl.



Rod said:


> Indeed Gabz, although these were two different moments, one for Batwoman mention a handful of years ago when they discarded the idea (Initially just that, with only later, and that being couple of years back then, deciding for Steph without necessarily relation between) then was brought up (publically, at least) again about November 2010 with the mysterious image of Barbara who caused discussions.
> 
> It's interesting to remember at the first suggestions of said developments Dan Didio was loudly negative about it making use of words such as: _"While I'm at DC, Barbara will never be retconned/ be Batgirl again"_ or somethhing around these (perhaps could be argued since she's not being retconned in the very sense of the word here), so indeed something happened (internally) to cause such 180.
> 
> Anyways, then again have to remember the staff of DC also called in the lastest years for not so _"hot in demand"_ decisions (Hal Jordan, Barry Allen to remind) that were more of a fruit on personal fluke wishes than popular claim per se, it reeks at least to me, another one of these.



Gail Simone was also against it, if I remember right.

Poor Steph, DC treated her like Batman treated her when she was Robin.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 26, 2011)

The designs are pretty fugly. 

Still looking forward to the Reboot no matter what happens, mainly because it'll give me the chance I need to finally jump back into DC comics.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 26, 2011)

- The first thing I thought when I heard Gail Simone bringing back _two_ characters was Savant and Creote, but I thought they were still dead (I didn't realize they were brought back), so perhaps I'm wrong there.

Personally, I want Ryan Choi to come back as a supporting character in Firestorm. Not only would I be getting more Ryan Choi written by Simone, but it'd actually be a good fit: They are both super-science superheroes and Choi can help them with the science side since they are both apparently high schoolers now.

Okay, I just want the character back.

- Not liking the JLA lineup. I get Firestorm, Green Arrow, Black Canary, and Element Girl, and I'm okay with them. The Atom better be Ryan Choi, and I hope I'm not the only person seeing a possible bit of Chinese descent in his face. But Deadman and Hawkman? If we are going for "diversity", why not replace Hawkman, the most replaceable person in the entire JLA? Black Lightning or Steel instantly come to mind, or how about an original Hispanic character? I just don't understand Deadman being there. And is that Mera there, or is that a redone Firehawk? Or is it an original character? 

I guess they are a bit heavier on women (slightly), but still not nearly as diverse as they could be. You are sort of stuck with most of the Big 7, but  why not make things more diverse on the other side? Outside of including Green Arrow and Black Canary, you got a lot of room and characters to use. Johns better justify this or shut up about "diversity".

- Was everyone really that interested in a DCron book? I think Chris Sims had the best opinion when he basically said "That's good for like 3 issues, but the concept is kind of limited". Are we really that interested in DC's version of Reboot?

- A lot of the costumes are too busy, either with shading (Which is a Jim Lee thing) or with the "armor" lines. Most of those costumes would look fine if they were just a little less detailed and cluttered. Superman's in particular would look better with less lines; the collar and no red briefs is a big enough change.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

I know I've made fun of the red panties, but damn Superman's costume looks... boring without them.

Maybe other artists can make it work.

I mean, I can dig WW's costume if it's something like this:


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 26, 2011)

I think they should just give Wonder Woman more battle-like armor and be done with it, but that's just me.


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 26, 2011)

I was hoping for a cross between Xena and WW's flashpoint outfit.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> To be honest, I don't think that was the major reason.


 I'm pretty certain it was.




> ...which explains why they kept all the Robins. Except the girl.



They weren't willing to do continuity rollbacks on the batman universe, and who can blame them? It's the one universe that actually feels like it's really benefited from all the progression it's had over the years.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 26, 2011)

And its where one of the 2 actually high selling creators DC has works.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 26, 2011)

So it just makes sense


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I'm pretty certain it was.



We agree to disagree. 



Petes12 said:


> They weren't willing to do continuity rollbacks on the batman universe, and who can blame them? It's the one universe that actually feels like it's really benefited from all the progression it's had over the years.



...You just said that they wanted to roll back on legacies. The Batgirl legacy is not more complicated than the Robin one. And they are keeping all the Robins except the one with boobs. Why is that?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

Because people know who Nightwing is even outside of comics, and you can't really make him Robin again without getting rid of lots of important stories. But with Batgirl, I guess they felt ok making barbara batgirl again even without making her years younger or whatever. I don't agree with the decision you know. But I get it.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

I know that. But what about Jason? Sure, you have the Red Hood movie, but how many of these new readers who according to DC are too stupid to understand legacies saw that? What about Tim? The Tim that appeared in BtaS was more Jason than Tim and Young Justice is using Dick, not Tim. And what about Damian? He appeared in the Brave and the Bold... with a completely different personality.

Keeping Nightwing? Yeah, I get it. From a visibility point of view it makes sense (though it makes me wonder why they aren't using the blue outfit since it's - you know - the one everybody knows). Keeping 4 Robins while at the same time saying they are getting rid of legacies because it's too complicated? Hahahaahahno.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

why are you so anti-tim


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 26, 2011)

Because the Robins have a far greater amount of recognizability and effect on Batman? Again, Batgirl is largely independent of what's going on with Batman. The progression of Robins are important to who Batman is and what's happened to him over the years. The progression of Batgirls? Not nearly as much. I mean, I hate to say it but that's the fact of the matter. Batgirl being so independent of Batman makes her much easier to replace, so to speak. Robin, not as much.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

Progression is important for new readers? Please, do tell me which new readers know that there are four male Robins. People who don't read comics identify one Robin, two at most.

And that doesn't explain why the only Robin that is being ignored is the one with boobs. I guess Batman violently losing a second Robin doesn't count as progression. 



Petes12 said:


> why are you so anti-tim



I love Tim


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 26, 2011)

Diversity: How about some new characters?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

she was robin for all of 10 seconds, i dont consider her a robin just like i wouldnt consider huntress a batgirl


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> she was robin for all of 10 seconds, i dont consider her a robin just like i wouldnt consider huntress a batgirl



_Batman_ considered her a Robin.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

dont care. war games is best left forgotten.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

War Games was a disaster, but it happened. Huntress and Misfit were never accepted by Barbara, Bruce accepted Stephanie, there's a difference.

Didio didn't consider her a Robin and we know that ended so _well_.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

He made her a robin as part of a stunt for war games. 

And lots of shit happened in the comics that are best left never referenced again.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 26, 2011)

I wish DC had brought Aztek back.

I loved that fucker.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 26, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> I wish DC had brought Aztek back.
> 
> I loved that fucker.



What ever happened to him


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> He made her a robin as part of a stunt for war games.
> 
> And lots of shit happened in the comics that are best left never referenced again.



I'm aware, he still considered her one.

Oh well, it seems DC agrees, after all they are going for a "only the stuff we like counts" approach.

Steph aside, you still didn't answer my question. If they are going for simplicity, why are they keeping 4 Robins when most new readers are familiar with two at most?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

he died in morrison's JLA didnt he?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I'm aware, he still considered her one.
> 
> Oh well, it seems DC agrees, after all they are going for a "only the stuff we like counts" approach.
> 
> Steph aside, you still didn't answer my question. If they are going for simplicity, why are they keeping 4 Robins when most new readers are familiar with two at most?



Because Damian's a great new character, Tim is extremely popular, and Todd's death is an important part of Batman's story.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I'm aware, he still considered her one.
> 
> Oh well, it seems DC agrees, after all they are going for a "only the stuff we like counts" approach.
> 
> Steph aside, you still didn't answer my question. If they are going for simplicity, why are they keeping 4 Robins when most new readers are familiar with two at most?



Probably because the fanbase actually likes Damien, so DC isn't getting rid of him, and there's no point in getting rid of Dick or Tim.

Jason's pretty much the same as Damien probally..


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 26, 2011)

Died in World War III, sacrificing himself to help Supes destroy Mageddon. 

EDIT: I liked Jason as Red Hood.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Because Damian's a great new character, Tim is extremely popular, and Todd's death is an important part of Batman's story.



That doesn't answer my question ...is he recognizable to new audiences?

Yes, his death is (though I wonder how many new readers even know there was a second Robin), him being alive? Not so much.

Damian is probably still kicking because he's Morrison's baby.



Emperor Joker said:


> Probably because the fanbase actually likes Damien, so DC isn't getting rid of him, and there's no point in getting rid of Dick or Tim.
> 
> Jason's pretty much the same as Damien probally..



The audience doesn't like Cass and Steph?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 26, 2011)

The audience likes Steph and Cass much better than Jason and probably Damian too.

And she was a Robin, just not in the same way as the boys.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

Look, they had a situation where they wanted to not change anything with the batman universe, because it's by far their most well developed 'world' with strong diversity and all that good stuff. At the same time, they want to get the properties to something people really recognize from tv or whatever. So they make compromises- Barbara is batgirl again but the other 2 are no doubt still around, just benched. Tim gets shuffled off to teen titans. Damian stays robin. etc. You cant really say 'oh dick has decided to be robin again after being batman'. That doesn't really work.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Look, they had a situation where they wanted to not change anything with the batman universe, because it's by far their most well developed 'world' with strong diversity and all that good stuff. At the same time, they want to get the properties to something people really recognize from tv or whatever. So they make compromises- Barbara is batgirl again but the other 2 are no doubt still around, just benched. Tim gets shuffled off to teen titans. Damian stays robin. etc. You cant really say 'oh dick has decided to be robin again after being batman'. That doesn't really work.



They kept what they liked and said they are doing it for the new readers. Gotcha.

I'm not even asking for Dick to go back to Robin at this point. If you want to make it simple, you do it like in BtaS. Dick was Robin, he left and became Nightwing, JasonTim became Robin. There.

What we have now is this: Dick was Robin, then Nightwing, then Batman, then Nightwing. Batman has a son with Talia who is now Robin. Tim was Robin, he was in Young Justice, but now he's a computer wiz and he's meeting his friends for the first time. Jason was Robin, then dead, then came back, then tried to kill everybody, now he's an anti-hero teaming up with Red Arrow and Starfire. Yeah that looks simple.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 26, 2011)

It is pretty convoluted.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 26, 2011)

Question:

When comcis do something really bone head like, say, One More Day or Cry for Justice, would you object to them pretending it never happened and just carrying on as normal?

Rather than wasting time trying to retcon it?

I mean those huge pages of text in Batgirl: Redemption explainign the mind control was just soul crushing.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 26, 2011)

Also I just learned the guy who was writing Cassandra when she became a villain in Robin had never read any of the previous issues of Batgirl

Which explains why the only thing she has in common with that girl is her name and hair.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 26, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Question:
> 
> When comcis do something really bone head like, say, One More Day or Cry for Justice, would you object to them pretending it never happened and just carrying on as normal?
> 
> ...



I prefer to willfully forget Cry for Justuice and the subsequent Rise of Arsenal ever happened. and now thanks to the reboot, I don't have to feel sad every time I look at Green Arrow or Roy Harper.

One More Day i've gotten over, though Quesada refusing to actually call Mephisto what he really is still pisses me off. I've gotten over it because we have gotten some good spidey stories out of it.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 26, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Also I just learned the guy who was writing Cassandra when she became a villain in Robin had never read any of the previous issues of Batgirl
> 
> Which explains why the only thing she has in common with that girl is her name and hair.



And now he's ruining Batman Beyond.  :/

I was hoping he'd be one of the people given the boot while DC pushes for more diverse and new talent, but of course that turned out to be complete bs too.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Progression is important for new readers? Please, do tell me which new readers know that there are four male Robins. People who don't read comics identify one Robin, two at most.



Yes, but they aren't looking for just "People who don't read comics". They are looking for people who don't read comics, but could. That's a very limited audience which likely has a far greater.

Yes, the vast majority of the population likely don't know there are any more Robins than Dick Grayson. But DC is looking at the nearly 500,000 people who bought the _Batman: Under the Red Hood_ DVD/Blu-Ray. That's 500,000 people who know the background of Jason Todd, one of the least-known Robin. You can say the same of Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker, and Tim Drake.

How many people likely know about Steph or Cass outside of the comics community? With the three Robins who are away from Batman, they are far better known outside the people who are actually buying the comics. Their stories are fairly easy to string together. They are important to the story of Batman (particularly Jason Todd). The only Robin who you can really eliminate is Damian, who is fairly new to the scene and isn't likely to happen.

The same isn't true of the Batgirls. The only one known outside of the comics community is Barbara. The stories of Batgirls are largely self-contained compared to those of Robin, who are far more linked to Batman's great stories than Batgirl is.

Ignore it if you like, but that's the facts of the matter. Not a lot of people may know who all the Robins are, but there is a larger proportion who do than likely know the later Batgirls. Out of those who might buy comics, they will likely know there have been multiple Robins, even if they don't know how many. The same likely isn't true of the Batgirls.



> And that doesn't explain why the only Robin that is being ignored is the one with boobs. I guess Batman violently losing a second Robin doesn't count as progression.



Because while Batman might have said it, he almost completely forgot Steph after she was gone to the point that they had to bring her back to life to explain it. She wasn't a Robin, or at least she wasn't a Robin long enough to really identify her as such. People identify her as Spoiler or as Batgirl, which is probably better in the long-run, as her run as Robin did nothing for the character but kill her.



> They kept what they liked and said they are doing it for the new readers. Gotcha.



Or you just refuse to recognize that th-

Wait, this is a fucking strawman. This entire thing is bitching over nothing. The two aren't comparable. This isn't about "keeping people", because none of these characters are gone. One switched to another's place, that's all.

Barbara going to Batgirl does not erase Cass or Stephanie. Everything seems to indicate that they are still alive and such. Cass doesn't need to be Batgirl anymore, and Stephanie can go back to Spoiler just as easily or hell, go to Flamebird or a new identity. Either way, no one needs to be erased for the change to take place.

Pushing Dick back to Robin while Tim still exists creates far larger problems. Pushing people back to Robin means you need to either eliminate the later Robins or find a good reason for such a regression while still having these younger characters working independent.



> I'm not even asking for Dick to go back to Robin at this point. If you want to make it simple, you do it like in BtaS. Dick was Robin, he left and became Nightwing, JasonTim became Robin. There.



They aren't erasing Stephanie and Cass, why erase Jason and Damian? People know there have been _multiple_ Robins, as well as the idea that Robins grow up and move on. Is it that hard to keep either in there?



> What we have now is this: Dick was Robin, then Nightwing, then Batman, then Nightwing. Batman has a son with Talia who is now Robin. Tim was Robin, he was in Young Justice, but now he's a computer wiz and he's meeting his friends for the first time. Jason was Robin, then dead, then came back, then tried to kill everybody, now he's an anti-hero teaming up with Red Arrow and Starfire. Yeah that looks simple.



Why do you explain it backwards? Try chronological progression:

Dick was the first Robin. He eventually became Nightwing, and was Batman when Bruce was thought dead. When he came back, he went back to Nightwing. 

Jason was the second Robin, and he died. He came back, was bitter at Batman, and now he leads his own little anti-hero group. (Again, he has an entire movie explaining this)

Tim was the third Robin, went around in a couple super-kid groups, and eventually went out on his own as Red Robin. 

The current Robin, Damian, is Batman's son. He was only recently revealed to Bruce.

That's not really that hard to explain. There's a natural progression which links them together.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> And now he's ruining Batman Beyond.  :/
> 
> I was hoping he'd be one of the people given the boot while DC pushes for more diverse and new talent, but of course that turned out to be complete bs too.



They got Scott Lobdell and Liefeld


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

I liked some of the Jason Todd stories probably more than most but I don't think it'd have been too bad an idea if they'd used the relaunch to put him back in the ground.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 26, 2011)

Eh, it's wasting a great concept. "Robin dies, comes back, goes rogue." The idea of a Robin dying, Batman's reaction, the kid coming back and fighting crime in his own way works well. Not only is it a great reminder of Batman being fallible, but it gives DC a decent anti-hero.

If only he weren't in Countdown or written by Bruce Jones...


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 26, 2011)

*sigh* Whatever, I'm not going to get into an argument over this.

Let's see how many readers DC can keep by the end of the year.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> They kept what they liked and said they are doing it for the new readers. Gotcha.



I dont understand the problem with this


----------



## Parallax (Jun 27, 2011)

Let's move on I'm sick of discussion about mediocre characters


----------



## Kool-Aid (Jun 27, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Also I just learned the guy who was writing Cassandra when she became a villain in Robin had never read any of the previous issues of Batgirl
> 
> Which explains why the only thing she has in common with that girl is her name and hair.




i don't understand why some writers do this. just read a few graphic novels to get a feel for a character before you write them for fuck sake.

why the hell do comic companies hire people who don't take writing at least half seriously.

Cassandra is one of my favorite DC characters, so obviously this makes me rage. 

i was just looking up info about her to see if she'd still be around/ is around in DC too, because i haven't kept up with comics for a while.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 27, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Let's move on I'm sick of discussion about mediocre characters



 **


----------



## Taleran (Jun 27, 2011)

Carrie Kelly is the best teen Batman sidekick. There we can now end all this nonsense.



> On Friday I had the opportunity to travel to New York City to attend DC Comic's Retailer Roadshow to learn more about the upcoming launch of the new #1's from DC.  The presentation lasted almost 4 hours and gave retailers a glimpse into the 'New 52' which is what DC is branding the September launch.  Retailers heard from John Rood (Executive VP-Sales, Marketing and Business Development), Bob Wayne (Senior VP-Sales), Vince Letterio (Director-Direct Sales) and Co-Publishers Dan Didio and Jim Lee.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Taleran (Jun 27, 2011)

Stupid post was too long.



> Justice League Family
> 
> Justice League- The flagship title of the New 52.  Jim Lee joked that if Geoff Johns had been there, Geoff would have said that he had always wanted to work with Jim.  The three keywords here are Heart, Humor and Heroics.  The first arc of this book takes place 5 years in the past and serves as a Year One story for the Justice League.  In story, up until this point, there have been no 'super-heroes', just super powered individuals who have sometimes been viewed with suspicion.  By banding together, the Justice League wants to show the world that they are deserving the moniker of super-hero.
> 
> ...


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 27, 2011)

> They felt that the stories had gotten stale and* too talky*



Oh dear...



Petes12 said:


> **



*makes note to talk about "mediocre characters" in every page*


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 27, 2011)

Kool-Aid said:


> i don't understand why some writers do this. just read a few graphic novels to get a feel for a character before you write them for fuck sake.



I don't expect writers to keep perfect contitunity with every character since they appear in so many issues and guest star in other people's books but comics are short and reading Cassandra's entire Batgirl run would take a couple of hours. It's not Moby Dick.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 27, 2011)

> Green Lantern: New Guardians- Again, the image associated with this book is not the cover. They want the identities of the New Guardians to remain concealed.



bahahahahaha


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 27, 2011)

> Teen Titans- All four Robins star or co-star in a book. (I know, what about Stephanie Brown? It was hinted that we would see her in Batman Incorporated. Dan Didio said she worked better as Spoiler).


----------



## Bender (Jun 27, 2011)

@ The Pink Ninja

Are u shitting me Cassandra Cain is not all that difficult to understand. In comparison to Dick's Nightwing run her's is relatively small. Shit you can get through her book in an hour or less. The reason why her characterization is so offtrack is cuz Adam Beechen is a lazy ass writer.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 27, 2011)

Cassandra's past is relatively easy to read and get.

The difference between her and most characters is that _you *need* to read it_. She's such a different character from your bog-standard heroes that you can't fake her by having the basic concepts of "Batgirl" and "Trained by League of Assassins".


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 27, 2011)

Right away you can tell when she starts straight away in on the huge monologues.

Even if she turned evil laconic dialogue is a rather key part of her character.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 27, 2011)

*sigh*



Bender said:


> @ The Pink Ninja
> 
> Are u shitting me Cassandra Cain is not all that difficult to understand. In comparison to Dick's Nightwing run her's is relatively small. Shit you can get through her book in an hour or less. The reason why her characterization is so offtrack is cuz Adam Beechen is a lazy ass writer.



That's what TPN meant.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 27, 2011)

Not just meant, said


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 27, 2011)

And wow, isn't the charaterisation of Slade wonderful?

It ranges from

"I just wanna portect my keeeeds!" and "Mecenary with principles"

To

"Lets nuke a city just to piss off Nightwing"


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 27, 2011)

i prefer the latter


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 27, 2011)

I don't, it's massively excessive.


There's no reason any DC hero shouldn't shoot to kill Slade. He's way, waaaaaay beyond jail time.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 27, 2011)

Hes not exactly the only villain that's killed tons of people. But what I was saying is I really dont like it when they try to make him some sympathetic father figure. It doesn't work for me at all.


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 27, 2011)

*blink*  Can he die yet?


----------



## Glued (Jun 27, 2011)

I'll be reading the new Justice League line up. See what new ideas they have for Aquaman and Hawkman.

Where's Martian Manhunter?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 27, 2011)

stormwatch


----------



## Glued (Jun 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> stormwatch



Isn't that some racist white nationalist website?


----------



## Bender (Jun 27, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> And wow, isn't the charaterisation of Slade wonderful?
> 
> It ranges from
> 
> ...




Slade's characterization in the comics is awful.

I prefer his "for the evulz" characterization when he nuked a city to piss off Nightwing. Also the way he was in the "Teen Titans" cartoon.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 27, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Isn't that some racist white nationalist website?





Teen Titans Slade Wilson was the first intepretation of the character that I was introduced to, so yeah, I prefer that version.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 27, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Isn't that some racist white nationalist website?



lol is it? **


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 27, 2011)

Slade just being "evil" only really works when you don't have people like Lex Luthor running around, which is why it worked so well with Teen Titans: there weren't any villains to take the role. It also helps that Ron Pearlman did to Slade what Michael Ironsides did to Darkseid. Here's what Deathstroke should be:


*He's a Mercenary*: While most of the time he's on the wrong side and he's obviously amoral, he should be a little bit more of a wildcard than he is. If we have a new Checkmate book w/Max Lord at the head, and we see at the end of the book the Checkmate guys find out that Slade is their backup... it shouldn't be _that_ surprising. At the very least, it gives him more of a range as to what he can be in and what he's doing.

*He's Professional*: It's not personal, he's stays bought, and he's only there until the job ends.

*He Watches Out for Kin*: Fuck this whole "testing the kids". He doesn't fight them, and he'll keep an ear to the ground for them. Otherwise, he'll leave them to their devices. If they don't want to hang with him, then that's their business.

*"Nightwing you say? I'll do it for free."*: Only time he lets it get personal. He takes these jobs for free (or at a lower rate), for reasons you can look up if you don't know why.

*He Doesn't Take Super-Kill Contracts*: Deathstroke is smart. He rarely takes contracts out on _killing_ superheroes because 1) They are rarely profitable and 2) They draw too much attention to him. He thinks he could take the Justice League, but he doesn't want to test it. If he's in a book, he'll have a parallel goal which may or may not oppose the hero: He's guarding a shipment or a person, trying to kill someone and the superhero finds out, trying to steal something, etc. But unless it's something very special (or personal), and it should be set up appropriately.

*He shouldn't fail often*: He's the best. He's supposed to be a darker version of Batman. If he's hired to do something, he shouldn't fail. Having Deathstroke on you should _mean_ something, as he should be one of the scariest people on the planet. Maybe he won't flawlessly succeed, but most of the time he should succeed at what he does. If you want someone who loses a lot, take Count Vertigo or Hellhound.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 27, 2011)

The reason for some of these getting their own ongoing "fan favorite request"


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 27, 2011)

illmatic said:


> The reason for some of these getting their own ongoing "fan favorite request"



That part was particularly funny.


----------



## Glued (Jun 27, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Teen Titans Slade Wilson was the first intepretation of the character that I was introduced to, so yeah, I prefer that version.



Thanks



Petes12 said:


> lol is it? **



My bad, I got it confused with Stormfront.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 27, 2011)

That'd have been amazing since it's going to star a gay couple


----------



## Glued (Jun 27, 2011)

A gay couple teaming up with the Martian *Manhunter*

There are so many bad jokes and puns I could make with this.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 27, 2011)

Does anyone else agree with this article, besides me?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> bahahahahaha



Snort to late for that DC.



Guy Gardner said:


> Slade just being "evil" only really works when you don't have people like Lex Luthor running around, which is why it worked so well with Teen Titans: there weren't any villains to take the role. It also helps that Ron Pearlman did to Slade what Michael Ironsides did to Darkseid. Here's what Deathstroke should be:
> 
> 
> *He's a Mercenary*: While most of the time he's on the wrong side and he's obviously amoral, he should be a little bit more of a wildcard than he is. If we have a new Checkmate book w/Max Lord at the head, and we see at the end of the book the Checkmate guys find out that Slade is their backup... it shouldn't be _that_ surprising. At the very least, it gives him more of a range as to what he can be in and what he's doing.
> ...



Exactly, when you hire Deathstroke, you are hiring the best there is. and if your not part of the job, he's not going to go after you until you are. I recall an arc of Birds of Prey where he teamed with Black Canary (and Technically Connor Hawke) because they basically had the same goals at the time. 

Hiring Slade is who you get if you want the job done well and if you want a good chance of getting it done in the first place. like you'd said if you wanted somebody who jobs alot and is a complete loser Hellhound is who you should go with.



Ben Grimm said:


> A gay couple teaming up with the Martian *Manhunter*
> 
> There are so many bad jokes and puns I could make with this.





I see what you did there, but nevertheless

Somebody hasn't read anything with Midnighter or Apollo in it I see. You need to read the Authority...or Midnighter's solo series/


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 27, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Does anyone else agree with this article, besides me?



Not really. I think the biggest thing people don't realize is that a slow unfolding of things would likely hurt DC because Marvel could squeeze them out with their own new releases and such, especially if it was announced long in advance. This is a "go big or go home" moment. Perhaps it could have coincided better with events and been planned out more, but the "52 books" thing is something that is needed for something like this.

That, and rebooting to *Earth-D* comes off as sloppy and uninspired to me. "Let's graft new ethnicities and genders to classic characters" comes off as far more desperate than what they are doing now, and I don't think it would fly with a lot of people. Yes, the original characters are a WASP club... but they're also iconic. People by them regardless of race and such. I mean, which would you rather have: Jaime Reyes becoming the Blue Beetle after Ted Kord moves on, or have Ted Kord come back and "Hey, he's Hispanic now!"? Who you change to what is going to be ridiculously arbitrary and political, and likely alienate people who may have gotten into the change. It's a poor substitute for a lack of imagination in my opinion.

Plus, I don't like the idea of losing so many characters only to introduce them in a much, much lesser capacity. The Ultimate Universe used to do this all the time ("Hey, let's see the Ultimate version of Vision!"), when it needed to be making up original characters and heading out on its own. Am I supposed to be happy that the set of strong, interesting and independent teens that Batman has is suddenly going to become a group of 9-10 year old informants? Cassandra Cain has gone through enough, let alone a lot of characters who would likely lack a place in the new universe.

I just can't agree with any of that.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 27, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I see what you did there, but nevertheless
> 
> Somebody hasn't read anything with Midnighter or Apollo in it I see. You need to read the Authority...or Midnighter's solo series/



what're you talking about? they are a gay couple are they not?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> what're you talking about? they are a gay couple are they not?



Your misunderstanding what i'm trying to say I think...either that or I wasn't making any sense with what I meant...probably the latter, which I apologize for.

He was making fun of them being Gay, so I meant to say he should read Authority or Midnighter's series before doing that. they're gay, but they're badass gays/


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 28, 2011)

i didnt get the sense he was making fun of them. just manhunters name


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i didnt get the sense he was making fun of them. just manhunters name



Meh my mistake then.

Moving on though, with Apollo, Midnighter and Hawksmoor being a part of the team, I wonder if we'll see the rest of the Authority show up at some point.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 28, 2011)

on Stormwatch and Demon Knights from Paul Cornell. In particular, announcing more characters (including new ones) for both series. 

A lot more old Authority hands in Stormwatch, so while I like the new designs Cornell is going to have to convince me why the DCU needs this group and why they aren't getting stomped down by the JLA.

Demon Knights just looks better and better to me. I like the two new characters announced, as well an addition that isn't really unexpected as it is really interesting.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 28, 2011)

Oh hey Engineer and Jenny Quantum...just two shy of a full Authority reunion...wonder which city will get demolished for the first arc.

So Savage and Shining Knight teaming up with Etrigan, my interest in Demon Knights has spiked massivly.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 28, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Oh hey Engineer and Jenny Quantum...just two shy of a full Authority reunion...wonder which city will get demolished for the first arc.
> 
> So Savage and Shining Knight teaming up with Etrigan, my interest in Demon Knights has spiked massivly.



I just realized they also have a Drummer expy. But again, if Cornell can keep it more like Planetary or Ellis' Stormwatch, I'll be okay. If this book turns out to be the Authority with a DC Logo, I'll be very, very disappointed.

And yes, Demon Knights is only going to rock further.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 28, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I just realized they also have a Drummer expy. But again, if Cornell can keep it more like Planetary or Ellis' Stormwatch, I'll be okay. If this book turns out to be the Authority with a DC Logo, I'll be very, very disappointed.
> 
> And yes, Demon Knights is only going to rock further.



If it has Planetary vibes to it, i'll definitely be getting it...though I didn't notice the Drummer stand in until you mentioned it lol


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 28, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> on Stormwatch and Demon Knights from Paul Cornell. In particular, announcing more characters (including new ones) for both series.
> 
> A lot more old Authority hands in Stormwatch, so while I like the new designs Cornell is going to have to convince me why the DCU needs this group and why they aren't getting stomped down by the JLA.
> 
> Demon Knights just looks better and better to me. I like the two new characters announced, as well an addition that isn't really unexpected as it is really interesting.



Jenny's back. 

The Projectionist sounds like potential for a hilarious character. 70% of what comes out of his mouth will probably be porn.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 28, 2011)

Another realization: Adam-1 may actually be Merlin. At least, it's very coincidental that he has the same aging problem as Merlin does in _The Once and Future King/i]. This makes me think we may see Adam-1 as an older character in Demon Knights... and again, wouldn't Merlin be appropriate for an aged person with superpowers who seems to be wise beyond his years?

Cornell, you are one odd Brit, but I still love you._


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 28, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Not really. I think the biggest thing people don't realize is that a slow unfolding of things would likely hurt DC because Marvel could squeeze them out with their own new releases and such, especially if it was announced long in advance. This is a "go big or go home" moment. Perhaps it could have coincided better with events and been planned out more, but the "52 books" thing is something that is needed for something like this.
> 
> That, and rebooting to *Earth-D* comes off as sloppy and uninspired to me. "Let's graft new ethnicities and genders to classic characters" comes off as far more desperate than what they are doing now, and I don't think it would fly with a lot of people. Yes, the original characters are a WASP club... but they're also iconic. People by them regardless of race and such. I mean, which would you rather have: Jaime Reyes becoming the Blue Beetle after Ted Kord moves on, or have Ted Kord come back and "Hey, he's Hispanic now!"? Who you change to what is going to be ridiculously arbitrary and political, and likely alienate people who may have gotten into the change. It's a poor substitute for a lack of imagination in my opinion.
> 
> ...



I was mainly talking about the convoluted history thing. You know, with the previous stories happening, but only with slight alterations.


----------



## Glued (Jun 28, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Oh hey Engineer and Jenny Quantum...just two shy of a full Authority reunion...wonder which city will get demolished for the first arc.
> 
> So Savage and Shining Knight teaming up with Etrigan, my interest in Demon Knights has spiked massivly.



Well Jason Blood was supposed to be a knight of Arthur and so was Shining Knight. I've never understood why they never team-up or join forces.



Emperor Joker said:


> Your misunderstanding what i'm trying to say I think...either that or I wasn't making any sense with what I meant...probably the latter, which I apologize for.
> 
> He was making fun of them being Gay, so I meant to say he should read Authority or Midnighter's series before doing that. they're gay, but they're badass gays/



Not really making fun of them for being gay, just pointing out that a guy named Manhunter is joining their team. More I'm making fun of Martian Manhunter's name.

I like bad puns like that. Blame it on the Street Sharks


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 28, 2011)

And from her own mouth, Amanda Conner is still working with DC. She just didn't get a book in the relaunch.

Edit: I just read this in another post, but it made me laugh. You know Stormwatch's new "God of the Internet"? That might be a drummer expy... but it also my be a _Warren Ellis_ expy as well, considering that one of his best-known nicknames is "Internet Jesus".


----------



## illmatic (Jun 28, 2011)

One article says the new series will be given 12 issues to sell & another says 6 issues.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 28, 2011)

illmatic said:


> One article says the new series will be given 12 issues to sell & another says 6 issues.



I've seen "6-issue commitment" and a "12-issue period before cancellation". I think the 6-issue commitment is with the creative team, while the 12-issue period is much more self-explanatory.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 28, 2011)

I can't help but think that at least half of these series are going to be put up against a wall after 12 issues.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 29, 2011)

I kinda hope not because most of them sound like good premises for books, even if i'd like new creative teams


----------



## Rod (Jun 29, 2011)

So, was just reading the WW forums over there at CBR and reminded me of something that one or other time makes me think about...

I wonder if some stop to realize how often aren't themselves crossing the line of that present situation who can only be classified as _"tragicomic_". It's possible to understand certain concern over particular aspects, however, it became borderline obssessive this exaggerated amount of effort with part being fool enough to notice it while others simply pretend that didn't.

Case in point, over the top amount of stuff dedicated to discuss Wonder Woman's pants, the color of the pants, the measures of the pants, yadda yadda.. way too much spent/wasted ranting at each other on what should her sexual orientation be come this reboot...etc...

This just looks pretty weird and unnecessarily complicated from a pov of someone who just wishes to relax while reading a good adventure in a pretty simple exercise of personal satisfaction.

Certainly from this premise in mind, Im lucky not to be a newcomer in such environment.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 29, 2011)

Paul Cornell's summary of StormWatch.



> STORMWATCH: We are not (expletive deleted) super heroes. This one’s the angry teenage sibling of the DC Universe, except in this case it does know better. Stormwatch were here first, saving the world is their job and they think super heroes are decadent gaudy amateurs. They’re the ruthless stone cold professionals. Right now it looks like they might be facing the enormous threat they were created to combat, only to find themselves having a bit of a crisis of leadership.



:sigh:


----------



## Taleran (Jun 29, 2011)

Warren Ellis of all people on the reboot.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 29, 2011)

Good ol' crazy Ellis


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 29, 2011)

Warren Ellis said:
			
		

> Also, Dan and Jim? I love you guys, and I’m greatly enjoying watching you start some shit. *But you can’t keep talking about how the old comics were boring when you in fact were the old management too.* Someone’s eventually going to call you on it, and you’re not going to have a good answer.



Ooo. Ouch.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 29, 2011)

*Fans plan protest at Comic-Con against DC relaunch*



> DC Comics A cadre of fans is organizing a walk at Comic-Con International in San Diego to protest the September relaunch of DC Comics? superhero line. Planned for Saturday, July 23, the DC Original Protest Walk is intended to bring together disenchanted readers in a show of solidarity against the sweeping overhaul



Comics are apparently, srz bzns.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 29, 2011)

"we prefer angry readers to indifferent ones"
This walk in is one hell of a publicity opportunity for DC


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 29, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> "we prefer angry readers to indifferent ones"
> This walk in is one hell of a publicity opportunity for DC



This is like Tom Brevoort's dream scenario. I hope he doesn't get any ideas from what's going on right now.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 29, 2011)

whats with you guys and that quote?


----------



## Parallax (Jun 30, 2011)

More like what's not with us and that quote


----------



## Bender (Jun 30, 2011)

> DC Comics A cadre of fans is organizing a walk at Comic-Con International in San Diego to protest the September relaunch of DC Comics’ superhero line. Planned for Saturday, July 23, the DC Original Protest Walk is intended to bring together disenchanted readers in a show of solidarity against the sweeping overhaul
> 
> Ready.MP3 - 2.90MB





Oh this is gonna be good


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 30, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> Comics are apparently, srz bzns.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 30, 2011)

Bender said:


> Oh this is gonna be good



The only question is will it be as amusing as the Westboro protest...


----------



## Parallax (Jun 30, 2011)

I have friends going to Comic Con I'll have them tell me what they see.


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Jun 30, 2011)

Poor DC,too much reboot is not good for the health.


----------



## Glued (Jun 30, 2011)

You know, I think I remember Grifter and Voodoo from this Stormwatch thingy. They were part of WildCATS

[Youtube]gtSPJZ-qlhA[/Youtube]

Ah the 90s, Good times

Now they're part of the DC Universe, sweet.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 30, 2011)

"It's time for Maul to grow tall."

 +  = me

**EDIT*
I used to want to smoke a cigar because of the leader guy.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 30, 2011)

Holy crow, I forgot about the show.


----------



## Glued (Jul 1, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Paul Cornell's summary of StormWatch.
> 
> STORMWATCH: We are not (expletive deleted) super heroes. This one?s the angry teenage sibling of the DC Universe, except in this case it does know better. Stormwatch were here first, saving the world is their job and they think super heroes are decadent gaudy amateurs. They?re the ruthless stone cold professionals. Right now it looks like they might be facing the enormous threat they were created to combat, only to find themselves having a bit of a crisis of leadership.
> 
> ...



Oh,... so they're a team of Frank Castles?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 1, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Oh,... so they're a team of Frank Castles?


Well, doesn't "ruthless stone cold professionals" describe the major teams of the Wildstorm-verse anyways(barring Gen13)? So its to be expected.

Although how Stormwatch has the nerve to think superheroes are gaudy and decadent, and still tolerate Midnighter's costume is baffling.


----------



## Glued (Jul 1, 2011)

Well they now have the martian manhunter in their group.
That makes them even more gaudy?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 1, 2011)

> Does The New 52 undo events or continuity that I've been reading?
> 
> Some yes, some no. But many of the great stories remain. For example - Batgirl. The Killing Joke still happened and she was Oracle. Now she will go through physical rehabilitation and become a more seasoned and nuanced character because she had these incredible and diverse experiences.



30+ year old Batgirl.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 1, 2011)

I hadn't thought she was 30+


----------



## typhoon72 (Jul 1, 2011)

Isnt Bruce only 35 or something with all the retcons? No way Barbara is 30 as well.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 1, 2011)

30-year old Batgirl, eh?


----------



## Glued (Jul 1, 2011)

30-year-old is not a girl anymore.

Might as well have babs become Batwoman.


----------



## Glued (Jul 1, 2011)

Rod said:


> So, was just reading the WW forums over there at CBR and reminded me of something that one or other time makes me think about...
> 
> I wonder if some stop to realize how often aren't themselves crossing the line of that present situation who can only be classified as _"tragicomic_". It's possible to understand certain concern over particular aspects, however, it became borderline obssessive this exaggerated amount of effort with part being fool enough to notice it while others simply pretend that didn't.
> 
> ...



Wonder Woman has the most spoiled fandom ever. They want everything to be perfect. Some fans will bitch if she isn't heroic enough. Some fans will bitch if she isn't badass enough.

Dear lord Gloria Steinem lead a boycott when they depowered Wondy in the Silver Age. 

They honestly can't see that when it comes to stories and meaning, she doesn't stack up next to Batman or Superman. The Trinity is a lie.

When Gail Simone got her hands on Wonder Woman, She killed Ares with just an axe and without a fight, oh yeah and Wondy was injured at the time. The Ares from George Perez era would have destroyed Wondy as a thought.

Bad writing, lack of interesting ideas, copying superman, false marketing, continuous reboots, NBC bullshit and a spoiled fanbase.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 1, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> 30+ year old Batgirl.



They'll probably de-age her. Again.

And according to Gail Simone, there are things in the interview that are not accurate.


----------



## Bender (Jul 2, 2011)

> Quote:
> Does The New 52 undo events or continuity that I've been reading?
> 
> Some yes, some no. But many of the great stories remain. For example - Batgirl. The Killing Joke still happened and she was Oracle. Now she will go through physical rehabilitation and become a more seasoned and nuanced character because she had these incredible and diverse experiences.



See, it's cuz of this shit that the folks going to the comic-con this year in San Diego are right for their protesting this ridiculous reboot.


----------



## Agmaster (Jul 2, 2011)

read green arrow industries or whatever, was not impressed


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 2, 2011)

Bender said:


> See, it's cuz of this shit that the folks going to the comic-con this year in San Diego are right for their protesting this ridiculous reboot.



I wonder how security will handle the walk. . .


----------



## Nightblade (Jul 2, 2011)

protest = free publicity

very clever, DC Comics. 



> So, was just reading the WW forums over there at CBR


CBR.


----------



## Devil Kings (Jul 2, 2011)

As a fan of Dc Comics, and especially Superman. This reboot doesn't really sit well with me.

Has yet to pick up Flash Point, I've decided to wait to pick all of them at the same time.

Now here's my biggest concern when it comes to the Superman reboot. it's says that they experimented on him for yrs.

So if they did all those shits to Kal, why when he's free, he'll willingly protect the Earth.

Superman didn't become Superman because of his powers, but because of the people that raised him. It was the Kent's that instilled right and wrong into him. It was the Kent's that mold him into Superman.

If he was never raised by the Kent's, what name will he go by, and why would he protect a race that treated him like nothing but a lab rat.


----------



## Slice (Jul 2, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> They'll probably de-age her. Again.



Probably.

The name Batgirl just doesnt fit with that age - but then again neither does Powergirl and she isnt any younger than her.

For my personal preference she should stay in her early 30s. So much better to look at than all these teenage superheroes.


----------



## Stilzkin (Jul 2, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> Has yet to pick up Flash Point, I've decided to wait to pick all of them at the same time.
> 
> Now here's my biggest concern when it comes to the Superman reboot. it's says that they experimented on him for yrs.



I don't know much about Flash point and the reboot but I thought Flash Point had all the main heroes, like Superman, be killed or simply stopped from being created. Other heroes and characters instead end up being around due to the original ones not being there and this all eventually leads to the reboot.

So basically its going to go what we have now > Flash point > DC reboot.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 2, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> As a fan of Dc Comics, and especially Superman. This reboot doesn't really sit well with me.
> 
> Has yet to pick up Flash Point, I've decided to wait to pick all of them at the same time.
> 
> ...



Flashpoint Supes has nothing to do with the reboot coming in September


----------



## Bender (Jul 2, 2011)

Slice said:


> Probably.
> 
> The name Batgirl just doesnt fit with that age - but then again neither does Powergirl and she isnt any younger than her.



IIRC Powergirl was called that because she's younger than she looks or so. Something similar to Kara Zor El (from the Superman/Batman book) being older than she looks. Plus it fits IMO (Powerwoman sounds so  ).


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 3, 2011)

Slice said:


> Probably.
> 
> The name Batgirl just doesnt fit with that age - but then again neither does Powergirl and she isnt any younger than her.
> 
> For my personal preference she should stay in her early 30s. So much better to look at than all these teenage superheroes.



Power Girl never bothered me because, well... she's an alien.

I want her to stay in her earlier 30s because there's nothing wrong with an older woman ffs


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 3, 2011)

I was in a large comicbook store yesterday and in some copy of Birds of Prey or Nightwing Babs was only supposed to be 22, rediculously young.

Even if things have move on chronologywise since then it'd be two, three years tops.

For context Steph and Tim are supposed to be 19 I believe.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 3, 2011)

Steph is 18. Tim is 17 if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 3, 2011)

I try not to care but Dick and Babs being anything less than 26 is duuuuuuuumb


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 3, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I was in a large comicbook store yesterday and in some copy of Birds of Prey or Nightwing Babs was only supposed to be 22, rediculously young.
> 
> Even if things have move on chronologywise since then it'd be two, three years tops.
> 
> For context Steph and Tim are supposed to be 19 I believe.



That sounds really off considering Barbara is like three or four years older than Dick is...and Dick sure as hell isn't eighteen.

was this Dixon era Birds of Prey by the way that you saw.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 3, 2011)

Can't recall other than it was after Infinite Crisis and it might have been in Nightwing.

The problem with so many Robins means I see Dick call Bruce "Brother" as often as I see him call him "Dad"

But honestly exactly what ages characters are doesn't bother much much unless they give an exact one and it's totally unbelivable.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 3, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> That sounds really off considering Barbara is like three or four years older than Dick is...and Dick sure as hell isn't eighteen.
> 
> was this Dixon era Birds of Prey by the way that you saw.



She was supposed to be in college when she was introduced, right? And Dick was 15/17 back then. But they keep de-aging her more and more. She was Dick's age in the cartoons, two or three years older in The Batman, at most.

It wouldn't surprise me if they made them the same age with this reboot.


----------



## Slice (Jul 3, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Power Girl never bothered me because, well... she's an alien.
> 
> I want her to stay in her earlier 30s because there's nothing wrong with an *older woman* ffs



> early 30s
> old

Excuse me, but are you serious?


----------



## Slice (Jul 3, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


>



You only know because we are the same age.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 3, 2011)

Yep.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 3, 2011)

Slice said:


> > early 30s
> > old
> 
> Excuse me, but are you serious?



ol_der_


----------



## illmatic (Jul 3, 2011)

back to batgirl 



> Barbara's age and height are significantly changed. In the Silver Age origin, Barbara was 21 years old and stood at 5' 11". She was generally depicted as an empowered and independent woman. *In Batgirl: Year One, Barbara is at 16–18 years old*, having graduated from college early, and applied for field duty with the FBI, which rejected her application on the grounds that she was too short (the GCPD rejects her on the same grounds). She is portrayed as a constant victim of sexism, which gives her a motive to become a vigilante: to prove a point.




I never read it (Year One) but is not this her recognized origin? I know other stuff from silver age was changed/ tweaked for other characters

say *10 years* pass in DCU even if you more have actually passed 

Babs is 26 - 28 yrs of age


----------



## Devil Kings (Jul 3, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Flashpoint Supes has nothing to do with the reboot coming in September



Can you please explain yourself sure. So does this mean Superman is still kal-El, still Clark Kent.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 3, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> Can you please explain yourself sure. So does this mean Superman is still kal-El, still Clark Kent.



Yes. Flashpoint while it's being used to usher in a reboot, is not the new status quo at all. Superman for the reboot is getting a new costume, getting de-aged a little bit...and he may no longer be married to Lois. his fate in the Flashpoint timeline will not be carried over from what I heard.


----------



## Glued (Jul 3, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Yes. Flashpoint while it's being used to usher in a reboot, is not the new status quo at all. Superman for the reboot is getting a new costume, getting de-aged a little bit*...and he may no longer be married to Lois.* his fate in the Flashpoint timeline will not be carried over from what I heard.





> *...and he may no longer be married to Lois.*





> *may no longer be married to Lois.*





> *no longer be married to Lois.*


----------



## illmatic (Jul 3, 2011)

> *no longer be married to Lois.*



Superman x Wonder Woman 

I heard its happening:WOW


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 3, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Superman x Wonder Woman
> 
> I heard its happening :WOW



Yes, because DC refuses to let this pairing die like it deserves. Though I'm hoping said rumor isn't true.


----------



## Glued (Jul 3, 2011)

They've been trying to pair off Wondy to Aquaman, Batman, Superman, Ram the Hindu God (Don't Ask), Hercules (Same Hercules that raped her mom, don't ask), Steve Trevor, Trevor Bailey, and Nemesis.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 3, 2011)

I really, really hope what's going on with the marriage is that Grant is going to write early Superman where they aren't married in Action Comics, while we can continue to have married Lois and Clark in Perez's Superman.


----------



## Glued (Jul 3, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I really, really hope what's going on with the marriage is that Grant is going to write early Superman where they aren't married in Action Comics, while we can continue to have married Lois and Clark in Perez's Superman.



Perez is the one who started the Superman X Wondy debacle. Superman being a simple Kansas boy is so overwhelmed by Wondy's presence, that he just grabs and plants a kiss on her lips. Then he apologizes for it.


----------



## Bender (Jul 4, 2011)

^

God that shit was stupid.


----------



## Glued (Jul 4, 2011)

It really makes you think when people say that George Perez had the best run on Wonder Woman.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 4, 2011)

Jason is not a redhead anymore. O:


----------



## Cromer (Jul 4, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Jason is not a redhead anymore. O:


Say what? The retcon got retconned?


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 4, 2011)

Don't worry, somebody will retcon it to pink next time.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 4, 2011)

Not looking almost exactly like all of the other boy-robins was a good idea.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 4, 2011)

Many people had problems with Jason having red hair because 1) he'd literally be the red headed stepchild of the Bat family and 2) Bruce making him dye his hair was eh... not really nice.

I have no problems with him having red hair tbh. They should have changed his eyes to green like in the Under the Red Hood movie, though. It's ridiculous that all the bat boys have black hair and blue eyes.


----------



## Glued (Jul 4, 2011)

Red heads, 
South Park was right.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 4, 2011)

Him being Red headed was goodfy anyway

Black with a white streak


----------



## Bender (Jul 4, 2011)

^

Now that was the shit


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 4, 2011)

Also since not everyone seems to have gotten the message:

Jason doesn't kill innocents, cops or members of the Bat-Family, though he maybe a little casual about their safety


----------



## Bender (Jul 4, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Also since not everyone seems to have gotten the message:
> 
> Jason doesn't kill innocents, cops or members of the Bat-Family, though he maybe a little casual about their safety



I miss this Jason Todd Y.Y

This was posted in the BH (it's not inappropriate or anything)


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 4, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Also since not everyone seems to have gotten the message:
> 
> Jason doesn't kill innocents, cops or members of the Bat-Family, though he maybe a little casual about their safety



It seems the guy who is going to write the new book gets that. I hope. Jason is much more interesting as an anti-hero than as a villain.


----------



## Bender (Jul 4, 2011)

^

Villain Jason Todd made me weep just as much as Roy Harper as a villain.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 4, 2011)

Don't remind me.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 4, 2011)

Plus old Todd had the misfortune to be a major character in countdown

Poor guy


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 4, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Plus old Todd had the misfortune to be a major character in countdown
> 
> Poor guy



Now thanfully Countdown can now be completely forgotten soon.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 4, 2011)

Yeah but if it's removed from continuity doesn't that mean masterpieces like 52 will be gone as well?


----------



## Glued (Jul 4, 2011)

Bender said:


> ^
> 
> Villain Jason Todd made me weep just as much as Rroy Harper as a villain.



"He's a hero, I'm Ray Palmer. Welcome to pain."

God I love that line.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 4, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> "He's a hero, I'm Ray Palmer. Welcome to pain."
> 
> God I love that line.



Why? it's a line that completely butchers Palmers character and aside from that it's from Cry For Justice...another series that i'll be happy to forget when the reboot comes in september


----------



## Glued (Jul 4, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Why? it's a line that completely butchers Palmers character and aside from that it's from Cry For Justice...another series that i'll be happy to forget when the reboot comes in september



Ever heard the phrase, so bad its good. Call it guilty pleasure.


----------



## Bender (Jul 4, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Why? it's a line that completely butchers Palmers character and aside from that it's from Cry For Justice...another series that i'll be happy to forget when the reboot comes in september



Cry for justice also made a mockery of Ray Palmer by trying to make a fail attempt at making him a badass and opt to Bat-torture. 


I mean seriously making Roy impotent and then mistake a dead cat for his daughter? So much  



			
				The Pink Ninja said:
			
		

> Plus old Todd had the misfortune to be a major character in countdown
> 
> Poor guy



  

His career is more crap than people connected to Tim Drake's social life in OYL. 



			
				Emperor Joker said:
			
		

> Now thanfully Countdown can now be completely forgotten soon.



Considering how this reboot is a crapload lot of that fail and then some. Yeah, it will be.


----------



## Sesha (Jul 4, 2011)

About Countdown. A bit hazy on these things, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Countdown basically retconned already? 
Maybe retconned isn't the proper word, but wasn't it at least conveniently ignored, and the events "forgotten", for the most part?


----------



## Glued (Jul 4, 2011)

Bender said:


> Cry for justice also made a mockery of Ray Palmer by trying to make a fail attempt at making him a badass and opt to Bat-torture.
> 
> .



Batman is a hero...I'm Ray Palmer, welcome to pain.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 4, 2011)

Sesha said:


> About Countdown. A bit hazy on these things, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Countdown basically retconned already? Retconned isn't the proper word, but wasn't it at least conveniently ignored, and the events "forgotten", for the most part?



It was used as a lead up to Final Crisis, but it completely fucked itself over and Final Crisis decided to ignore several of the events that happened in it...some of the events are still canon though I think


----------



## Glued (Jul 4, 2011)

What exactly was the point of Countdown anyways?


----------



## Parallax (Jul 4, 2011)

To build up excitement for Final Crisis?

Morrison pretty much ignored it entirely


----------



## Bender (Jul 5, 2011)

^

Wise decision.

I mean seriously Superboy Prime becoming a retarded power house spouting shit like "I'll kill you to death!".  Also incorporating storyline from JLA: Lightning (forget the story) where the JLA and JSA team up was epic fail. And who could forget (I sure as hell want to) the story where Jimmy Olsen gains some power and decides to become a hero. Then it turns out that the power he gains was one that was hidden in him by Darkseid.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 5, 2011)

And that power was the power to become a giant turtle. And that power thwarted Darkseid's plan. And Darkseid wasted the time-traveling bullet on Orion and not Jimmy Olsen. Why did Bruce Timm have to make me such a DC fanboy? Why did Ironside make Darkseid so cool? Life would be so much easier if I was just a Wolverine fanboy like everyone else.


----------



## Devil Kings (Jul 5, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Yes, because DC refuses to let this pairing die like it deserves. Though I'm hoping said rumor isn't true.



Shut you're mouth. Shut you're mouth. Sorry my fanboy sometimes rears it's ugly head, most of the time i have total control over it though.

Anyway, i actually see potential for kal and Diana. If there characterization is anything like it was in Kingdom Come, then it would be pretty good.


----------



## Glued (Jul 5, 2011)

What characterization, there was literally no build-up or romantic development between the two and Wondy ends up pregnant near the end. 

Superman: Last Man on Earth, Superman: Distant Fires, DK2, JLA: Act Of God, and All Star Batman.

Its kind of funny how there are so many WondyXSupes stories that turn out like garbage and the one story that isn't garbage (Kingdom Come) almost completely ignores the relation between the two.

I still find myself laughing about DK2 where Wonder Woman and Supes literally caused global catastrophes simply by having sex.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 5, 2011)

DK2 and All Star Batman & Robin are better stories than Kingdom Come.


----------



## Glued (Jul 5, 2011)

Frank Millar's Wonder Woman: Out of the way sperm bank.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 5, 2011)

The Dialog in ASB&R is heavily stylized what is your point?


----------



## Bender (Jul 5, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> What characterization, there was literally no build-up or romantic development between the two and Wondy ends up pregnant near the end.
> 
> Superman: Last Man on Earth, Superman: Distant Fires, DK2, JLA: Act Of God, and All Star Batman.
> 
> Its kind of funny how there are so many WondyXSupes stories that turn out like garbage and the one story that isn't garbage (Kingdom Come) almost completely ignores the relation between the two.



All that needs to be said about this ridiculous couple. 




> I still find myself laughing about DK2 where Wonder Woman and Supes literally caused global catastrophes simply by having sex.



    

Frank Miller is a pervy jackass. 


Also Devil Kings KC? 

The whole duration of that story Supes is trying to get over the death of his beloved wife rather then think about Wondy.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 5, 2011)

I pretend that didn't happen. It was that bad.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 5, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> And that power was the power to become a giant turtle. And that power thwarted Darkseid's plan. And Darkseid wasted the time-traveling bullet on Orion and not Jimmy Olsen. Why did Bruce Timm have to make me such a DC fanboy? Why did Ironside make Darkseid so cool? Life would be so much easier if I was just a Wolverine fanboy like everyone else.



Actually the whole turtle thing was a callback to his comic series during the silver age where he could suddenly sprout new powers as the plot demanded....still stupid though



Ben Grimm said:


> What characterization, there was literally no build-up or romantic development between the two and Wondy ends up pregnant near the end.
> 
> Superman: Last Man on Earth, Superman: Distant Fires, DK2, JLA: Act Of God, and All Star Batman.
> 
> ...



Actually It was kept low key, but it was clear during thier first interaction at the fortress, that they did have feelings for each other, but couldn't embrace them to due Clark not being over Lois being dead yet. 

I actually like it that way, having thier relationship while still visable, be kept unimportent for the most part so that it wouldn't interfer with the overall.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 5, 2011)

Taleran said:


> DK2 and All Star Batman & Robin are better stories than Kingdom Come.



sometimes you say things that are crazy man


----------



## Taleran (Jul 5, 2011)

Crazy does not necessarily mean not true.


----------



## Bender (Jul 5, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Actually It was kept low key, but it was clear during thier first interaction at the fortress, that they did have feelings for each other, but couldn't embrace them to due Clark not being over Lois being dead yet.
> 
> I actually like it that way, having thier relationship while still visable, be kept unimportent for the most part so that it wouldn't interfer with the overall.



Exactly, being a suitor and their relationship being mentioned as a possible opportunity to give fans false hope seems a'ight IMO.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 5, 2011)

im not in love with kingdom come but it was better than all star batman.


----------



## Bender (Jul 5, 2011)

^

A grilled cheese sandwhich and a marathon of Batman: Brave and the bold is better than AS Batman & Robin.

Taleran I love you and all man but drugs are bad.


----------



## Slice (Jul 5, 2011)

Bender said:


> A grilled cheese sandwhich and *a marathon of Batman: Brave and the bold *is better than AS Batman & Robin.



A marathon of Brave and the bold is better than a lot of things.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 5, 2011)

eh I wouldn't go that far.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jul 5, 2011)

Countdown was utterly terrible. 

Something entitled "Countdown to Final Crisis" was so bad that Final Crisis itself ignored practically everything that went on. 

They took James Jessie, the original Trickster, the man who outsmarted Neron and made him into a moronic, homophobic mess.

Trickster before Countdown: 



Trickster during Countdown:



Ruin and then kill off a good character but it's okay because he have hand puppets? Lets make fun of gay people but it's okay because we have hand puppets?

The Trickster is not the Joker. He's not supposed to make you laugh. He's not Crazy Quilt or Captain Nazi. He's not supposed to be pathetic. And he has worked with Piper for decades. He's not supposed to be a homophobic jerk. That's just the writers' ignorance rubbing off.

But it's okay. He's funny because he has hand puppets. He's not a moron doing puppet shows. You don't see Lex Luthor doing puppet shows. You don't see any self-respecting character doing puppet shows.

Want to know why 52 was great and Countdown sucked? The writers.

People who wrote 52:

- Grant Morrison
- Geoff Johns
- Greg Rucka
- Mark Waid
- Keith Giffen

All around good writers and some of the best in the industry.

People who wrote Countdown:

- Paul Dini
- Jimmy Palmiotti
- Sean McKeever
- Tony Bedard
- Adam Beechen
- Justin Gray

Not one talented writer on the book.

Basically, Countdown was stupid, didn't make any sense, and everyone should ignore it completely, and act like it never happened.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 5, 2011)

Paul Dini has written some great stuff 

just not Countdown


----------



## illmatic (Jul 5, 2011)

Gotham City Sirens


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jul 5, 2011)

I agree that Dini is the best of the Countdown crowd. He did some cool stuff with Batman TAS/Batman Beyond but he hasn't done anything good in the last decade.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 5, 2011)

Well yeah

but I wouldn't call him not talented


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jul 5, 2011)

You might have a point there, don't usually look over my rants.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 5, 2011)

and Bedard is pretty alright.  Not the greatest but certainly not awful.


----------



## Cromer (Jul 6, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> People who wrote Countdown:
> 
> - *Paul Dini*
> - Jimmy Palmiotti
> ...


Two of these are not like the others.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 6, 2011)

Palmiotti and Gray are supposed to be pretty excellent writers too, though I don't read Jonah Hex myself. I don't really think Countdown is an accurate account of any of those guys... except Beechen of course


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 6, 2011)

Cover for Batgirl 2 is up.



She looks... pretty young.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 6, 2011)

That's just how Hughes draws his women.  Wait till you see interiors to make the final call.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 6, 2011)

She looks around 15.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 6, 2011)

Fair enough.

Although I'm still going to be bitter about Batgirl. I'm trying hard not to judge it early, but just like with the flash, if you're going to sideline a character I love (Wally/Steph) in order to bring back the original into their "iconic" role, the end result better be worth it.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 6, 2011)

Parallax said:


> That's just how Hughes draws his women.  Wait till you see interiors to make the final call.



Oh please. Hughes draws adult looking women all the time.



The only one that looks like a teenager there is Supergirl, and she _is_ a teenager.

I'm not complaining about it. If they de-aged her she should look younger.


----------



## Cromer (Jul 6, 2011)

Oh, DC 

First you introduce Barbara Gordon, to some acclaim. She gets fans, and then she kinda slips out of the public eye till Alan Moore fridges her. Then the Barbtards come out the woodwork.

Then you introduce cassandra Cain, and she's pretty popular as well, not to mention you appease the Barbtards by turning her into the absolutely awesome Oracle. All is good again. Then you ruin it.

Then you give the mantle to Steph Brown and a good writer, and all seems to be rescued (to a certain  extent). Then you dump all this and go back to scratch? Is this state of flux really good, DC?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 6, 2011)

I think the idea is that this is the last change, and that this will be the status quo for the foreseeable future.

In theory at least...


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 6, 2011)

The problem with Countdown was less of the writers, and more the problem of it being a story run by editors. I'd wager that team could put together a far better story than what came out if they didn't have the editors at the control all the time like they did.

And I agree: Babs looks really, really young in that cover.

In other news, though: Apparently there is a character in the new Mr. Terrific book which is someone who is "alive and well", which would signal to me that it's someone who shouldn't actually be. My guess would be Power Girl (Karen Starr), but perhaps it's someone else who isn't currently on the cover of a book.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 6, 2011)

That sounds interesting  I'm actually looking forward to reading that one.



Cromer said:


> Oh, DC
> 
> First you introduce Barbara Gordon, to some acclaim. She gets fans, and then she kinda slips out of the public eye till Alan Moore fridges her. Then the Barbtards come out the woodwork.
> 
> ...



You have to give it to them. They managed to upset three fanbases with one move.

that takes skills


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 6, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> That sounds interesting  I'm actually pretty interested in the Mr. Terrific series.



I'm interested if only because he's a character who, with the right writer, could be really cool. The DC Universe doesn't have nearly as many super-geniuses actually doing science and such in their books as Marvel does, so it's interesting to see someone trying to bring that to DC.



> You have to give it to them. They managed to upset three fanbases with one move.
> 
> that takes skills



This is the comic book industry. They wouldn't be one of the big two if they didn't piss people off. I mean, if you aren't pissing _somebody_ off then you probably don't have any fans.[/Brevoort]


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 6, 2011)

He sounds cool. I haven't read many stories with him, I should do some research. 

That's why I said it takes skills.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 6, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> People who wrote Countdown:
> 
> -Paul Dini


Batman: Streets of Gotham, Detective Comics


> - Sean McKeever


Teen Titans


> - Tony Bedard


REBELS, GLC


> - Adam Beechen


Robin, Batgirl (regardless of how much CBG moans)


> - Jimmy Palmiotti
> - Justin Gray


Power Girl, Daughters of the Dragon


> Not one talented writer on the book.




I'm gonna neg you harder than anyone has ever been negged in the history of NarutoForums.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 6, 2011)

Sean McKeever's run on Teen Titans was... ugh. That was a joyless book full of drama and angst, and few (if any) bright spots.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 6, 2011)

His marvel stuff is a lot better. Both Nomad and Spider Man Loves Mary Jane were pretty enjoyable.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 6, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Sean McKeever's run on Teen Titans was... ugh. That was a joyless book full of drama and angst, and few (if any) bright spots.


Red Devil, Blue Beetle, Miss Martian and Ravager. Joyful bright spots. 


Whip Whirlwind said:


> His marvel stuff is a lot better. Both Nomad and Spider Man Loves Mary Jane were pretty enjoyable.


I hated Nomad, and SLMJ just sounded too girly for me to even care.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 6, 2011)

I had heard of his _Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane_ stuff, which is why I thought he'd be great for _Teen Titans_. Either he never got a feel for how to execute a good story with the characters, or editorial ruined him. I'm not sure which, though I'm sure it was a bit of a combination.



LIL_M0 said:


> Red Devil, Blue Beetle, Miss Martian and Ravager. Joyful bright spots.



The characters were there, but I never enjoyed any storylines. I felt so much was misused and underdone. I honestly can only remember the Titans Tomorrow storyline (which I didn't care for) and Wonder-Dog-Demon. I mean, that's sad, especially when you have one of my favorite characters of all time in there (Blue Beetle).


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 6, 2011)

Minus the constant line-up shuffling, and wonder girl, I loved McKeever's TT and his Raveger back-ups. But not Deathtrap, that was all Wolfram trying to expose us to his DCU punisher.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 6, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> Red Devil, Blue Beetle, Miss Martian and Ravager. Joyful bright spots.



I think that McKeever just got a really bad hand on that one, getting the titans gig right after Superboy died and everything was all angsty and unorganized.

Had McKeever been allowed to write the characters closer to their Young Justice incarnations, I think it would have been a lot better.



> I hated Nomad, and SLMJ just sounded too girly for me to even care.



Fair enough. SLMJ is kinda girly, but it was a fun book.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 6, 2011)

Nothing wrong with a little feminine if it's done well.

gotta break free of them insecurities man


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 6, 2011)

So I was reading an article that ended by pointing out all the DC people who aren't involved with the new 52, and I was really surprised by how many solid writers/artists are being "left behind".

Full list
*Spoiler*: __ 



There’s also no work from creators working for DC in August including James Robinson, Scott Kolins, Phil Jiminez, Jamal Igle, Adam Schlagman, Jonathan Vankin, David Hine, Bryan Miller, Peter Calloway, Jock, Brian Wood, Brian Clevinger, Marc Andreyko, Tom DeFalco, Chris Roberson, Kelly Sue DeConnick, Phil Hester, Howard Chaykin, JG Jones, Will Pfeiffer, James Patrick, Marc Guggenheim, Marv Wolfman, Matthew Sturges, Nick Spencer, Frazer Irving, Andy Kubert, Fernando Blanco, Felipe Massafera, Rex Ogle, Ibraim Roberson, Scott Clark, Alejandro Giraldo, Rodney Buchemi, Eddie Nunez, Javi Fernandez, Oliver Nome, Gene Ha, Marco Castiello, Mike Miller, Howard Porter, Daniel Sampere, Ron Randall, Kevin Maguire, Jerry Bingham, Sergio Cariello, Rich Buckler, Paris Cullins, Mike Bowden, Steve Scott, Jay Fabok, Greg Tocchini, Todd McCarthy, Carlos D’anda, Pere Perez, Chris Batista, Adam Beechen, Marcus To, Andres Guinaldo, Billy Tucci, Ron Frenz, Allan Goldman, Piers Gallo, Chriscross, Tomas Giorello, Don Kramer, Geraldo Borges, Phil Winslade, Agustin Padilla, Jerry Ordway, J Calafiore, Hendry Prasetya, Mike Grell, Nicola Scott, Jose Luis, Fabrizio Fiorentino and Victor Ibanez




Mostly surprised when it comes to art. How does Rob Liefield get a book when Pere Perez, Marcus To, Nicola Scott, Jamal Igle, Jock, and Frazer Irving aren't on anything?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 6, 2011)

DC thinks he still has fans lol


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> DC thinks he still has fans lol



This is what baffles me. Spend 10 minutes searching his name on Google and its pretty clear he's widely regarded as a joke.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 6, 2011)

Maybe they're working on projects that just couldn't come out in time.  I'd rather wait a few months if they're high quality works.

Then again with those names maybe one or two will really deliver.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 6, 2011)

Marcus To not having a book is criminal.

Maybe they are saving them in case the September launch fails hard.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> This is what baffles me. Spend 10 minutes searching his name on Google and its pretty clear he's widely regarded as a joke.



I heard he's very popular in cons.




Yeah, I don't get it.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 6, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> This is what baffles me. Spend 10 minutes searching his name on Google and its pretty clear he's widely regarded as a joke.



DC needed somebody who they could pay in Bagels and pocket change and somebody that they could fire at the drop of the hat if need be.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 6, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> DC needed somebody who they could pay in Bagels and pocket change and somebody that they could fire at the drop of the hat if need be.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2011)

did you guys see chuck austen was almost going to be the writer of that blackhawks book? but they had him labeled as C.O. Austen like that was gonna trick people.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 7, 2011)

Has he actually wrote anything good in the last few years? the last thing I read from him was that mess with Lionheart in Avengers...


----------



## illmatic (Jul 7, 2011)




----------



## Cromer (Jul 7, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> This is what baffles me. Spend 10 minutes searching his name on Google and its pretty clear he's widely regarded as a joke.


At times you need to ignore the insanely vocal minorities on the Internet.

At times.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 7, 2011)

I also have a feeling it doesn't matter because I think people will buy the book because he is drawing it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 7, 2011)

Taleran said:


> I also have a feeling it doesn't matter because I think people will buy the book because he is drawing it.



But wouldn't there be more people who DONT buy the book because he is drawing it? Why reward shitty art?


----------



## Parallax (Jul 7, 2011)

Actually no

MORE people buy it then bemoan it.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> But wouldn't there be more people who DONT buy the book because he is drawing it? Why reward shitty art?



sadly probably not, because who's really going to buy a hawk and dove comic?


----------



## Slice (Jul 7, 2011)

And Gabzilla - saw some cute Batgirl strips used in a discussion on /co/ that seemed familiar. Found out they were done by you. Great work on those.


----------



## Glued (Jul 7, 2011)

So, is Batgirl still super intelligent like she was when she was oracle, or is that going to be retconned.


----------



## Bender (Jul 7, 2011)

^

Most likely retconned to provide humor to the book.


----------



## Glued (Jul 7, 2011)

Rob Liefield gets a book, sweet. I'm going to buy the shit out of it. Good old 90s nostalgia.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 7, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> So, is Batgirl still super intelligent like she was when she was oracle, or is that going to be retconned.



Since Simone was talking about her using her photographic memory in the middle of a shootout, I'm guessing she's still as smart as she ever was.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 7, 2011)

They said she will keep her Oracle past.



Slice said:


> And Gabzilla - saw some cute Batgirl strips used in a discussion on /co/ that seemed familiar. Found out they were done by you. Great work on those.



Thank you :3


----------



## Glued (Jul 7, 2011)

It reminds me of the haters gonna hate gif.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 7, 2011)

I think that was the idea.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 7, 2011)

> But wouldn't there be more people who DONT buy the book because he is drawing it? Why reward shitty art?


Because of "irony"?


----------



## TheWon (Jul 7, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Rob Liefield gets a book, sweet. I'm going to buy the shit out of it. Good old 90s nostalgia.



Ya, and I was running out of toilet paper!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 8, 2011)

Slice said:


> And Gabzilla - saw some cute Batgirl strips used in a discussion on /co/ that seemed familiar. Found out they were done by you. Great work on those.



All that is missing is the "Haters gonna hate" caption at the bottom. Awesome work!


----------



## Cromer (Jul 8, 2011)

Well, y'all can look down your noses all you want, I'm certainly gonna buy at least one or two issues of Hawk and Dove, just because of Liefeld.

And it seems a lot of stuff stays the same in the Bat-corner of the DCU. The same' in the sense that things that have already happened ain't gonna be 'forgotten' in the mists of the distant past circa 2011


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 8, 2011)

Comicbook Resources said:
			
		

> *Question:* How will DC Comics going "day-and-date" with digital and print comic releases affect your weekly pull list?


Answer: It won't.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 8, 2011)

Well you never know actually.  

Unless you're from the future.


----------



## Cromer (Jul 8, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> Answer: It won't.


All-digital pull list already?


----------



## Gobot (Jul 8, 2011)

Big fan of Liefeld here, really glad that he is getting his own book again. The guys at DC choose the right people!


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 8, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Well you never know actually.
> 
> Unless you're from the future.


I don't need 1.21 gigawatts to know what I won't be doing with my money. 


Cromer said:


> All-digital pull list already?



Apparently. 


Gobot said:


> Big fan of Liefeld here, really glad that he is getting his own book again. The guys at DC choose the right people!


post count = 1. Try harder.


----------



## Cromer (Jul 8, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> post count = 1. Try harder.


----------



## Gobot (Jul 8, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> post count = 1. Try harder.





I'm not exactly sure what you're implying here. Are you trying to be funny or saying that I can't post stuff like that unless I have a greater post count? 

Anyone else looking forward to the hawk and Dove book with Liefeld on it?


----------



## Parallax (Jul 8, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> I don't need 1.21 gigawatts to know what I won't be doing with my money.



Well I don't think most of us here would, but you never know about other people that might.  I was at a panel for manga and online distribution a couple of days ago and being able to buy it digitally and a lot of them responded favorably to it and a few had it as a preferred method of purchase. 

I'm just saying you never know how the public at large might respond to it.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 8, 2011)

Gobot said:


> I'm not exactly sure what you're implying here. Are you trying to be funny or saying that I can't post stuff like that unless I have a greater post count?
> 
> Anyone else looking forward to the hawk and Dove book with Liefeld on it?



the thinking is you're clearly a troll!


----------



## Parallax (Jul 8, 2011)

I feel bad for this guy 

I mean what if he's not trolling and is serious.  He would need our help :[


----------



## Glued (Jul 8, 2011)

maybe hes just a fan of the 90s and loves ninjas with shoulder pads.


----------



## Gobot (Jul 8, 2011)

So if I like Liefeld, I'm a troll? People have opinions, geez.

And yes, Grimm guessed correctly, I'm a huge fan of the 90s.


----------



## Slice (Jul 8, 2011)

I too love me some 90s comics - mostly for nostalgia.

But it isnt the 90s anymore.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 8, 2011)

I love the 90's

except for comics


----------



## Glued (Jul 8, 2011)

Bane snapping Batman's spine
Superman beaten to death by Doomsday
Aquaman's hand gets fed to piranhas by Charybdis

Good times.


----------



## Gobot (Jul 8, 2011)

The 90s were a glorious time for everyone, including comics. ph


----------



## Slice (Jul 8, 2011)

Batman TAS and the X-Men cartoon. I remember getting up extra early every saturday just to watch these.
Good times


----------



## Glued (Jul 8, 2011)

Gobot said:


> The 90s were a glorious time for everyone, including comics. ph



Some call it the dark ages.

Me, I loved the violence, the gaudiness, and the extreme.


----------



## Glued (Jul 8, 2011)

Did Batman get his spine broken?
Did Superman get beaten to death?
Did Aquaman lose his hand?

Did any of those good times happen after this retcon.


----------



## Slice (Jul 8, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Superman beaten to death by Doomsday



Oh the awesomeness. Each issue having less and less panels until there is only a single one left per page showing their brutal beatdown.

Back then it really felt like there was something at stake.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 8, 2011)

Yes many good times came

oh and that X-Men 90's cartoon rocks especially the fun cheesy moments.


----------



## Gobot (Jul 8, 2011)

The 90s had epic cartoons despite the shitty animation -- including the aforementioned X-men, Spiderman too and all of the other epic cartoons Marvel made during the 90s.


----------



## Slice (Jul 8, 2011)

Back then the animation was not shitty.

And Ben raises a valid point here - how much of the awesome 90s stuff actually happened after the big retcon hits?


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 8, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Did Batman get his spine broken?
> Did Superman get beaten to death?
> Did Aquaman lose his hand?
> 
> Did any of those good times happen after this retcon.



Yeah, it all happened in a week


----------



## Parallax (Jul 8, 2011)

what a week


----------



## Gobot (Jul 8, 2011)

Slice said:


> Back then the animation was not shitty.
> 
> And Ben raises a valid point here - how much of the awesome 90s stuff actually happened after the big retcon hits?



Compared to nowadays animation, it pretty much is, IMO.

Hardly none of it. 

That was another great thing about the 90s, shit was always happening. Death of Superman, Batman's back broken... Daring crap like that barely happens today in comics.


----------



## Glued (Jul 8, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Yeah, it all happened in a week



What you talking about, Aquaman only got his real hand back in Brightest Day.

Besides even if Supes and Bats got better the violence was still awesome.


----------



## Glued (Jul 8, 2011)

Slice said:


> Back then the animation was not shitty.
> 
> And Ben raises a valid point here - how much of the awesome 90s stuff actually happened after the big retcon hits?



With DC, who knows.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 8, 2011)

Gobot said:


> So if I like Liefeld, I'm a troll? People have opinions, geez.



Its hard to believe someone could legitimately enjoy his art :S

not trying to be mean, but it really is just... not very good. 



Ben Grimm said:


> Did Batman get his spine broken?
> Did Superman get beaten to death?
> Did Aquaman lose his hand?
> 
> Did any of those good times happen after this retcon.



Im sure the first 2 happened at least.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 8, 2011)

and the animation was definitely awful in the 90s! at least compared to today. I'm sure it looked great next to scooby doo.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 8, 2011)

BtaS and Gargoyles had superb animation. Disney also had a lot of shows with excellent animation teams.



Parallax said:


> what a week



Indeed 



Ben Grimm said:


> What you talking about, Aquaman only got his real hand back in Brightest Day.
> 
> Besides even if Supes and Bats got better the violence was still awesome.



DC is compressing time. 







pst, it was a joke.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 8, 2011)




----------



## Petes12 (Jul 8, 2011)

That's amazing timing on LBFA's part.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 8, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> BtaS and Gargoyles had superb animation. Disney also had a lot of shows with excellent animation teams.



Ehh... amazing cartoon but not because of the animation for me. But I guess it was probably pretty good for the time, I just dont remember cus I was pretty young when I watched it on tv

also gabzilla i totally didnt make the connection that you're the one that does those awesome deviantart strips! I feel dumb


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Ehh... amazing cartoon but not because of the animation for me. But I guess it was probably pretty good for the time, I just dont remember cus I was pretty young when I watched it on tv



Well, yes, for the time it was superb. 



Petes12 said:


> also gabzilla i totally didnt make the connection that you're the one that does those awesome deviantart strips! I feel dumb


----------



## Parallax (Jul 8, 2011)

It's still good.  Petes is just weird about things that were made before 1999


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 8, 2011)

Actually, after they changed their animation style, I think it holds up alright... which is funny cus back then I wanted the old style back.


----------



## Glued (Jul 8, 2011)

I wonder if Dove will get the Liefieldan proportions of muscle.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 8, 2011)

shes on his god awful cover for the book


----------



## Slice (Jul 9, 2011)

Of course compared to today the animation is no longer good - but this is why i dont compare. When it was new it was awesome animatio and this is what counts. It's been nearly 20 years since this started to air - would be really strange if they did not improve in this time.


----------



## Cromer (Jul 9, 2011)

I still like the animation from back then - to wit, Silverhawks (to pick at random) was very fluid. The colors were too solid, sure, but...


And I'm a Liefeld fan as well. What of it?


----------



## Slice (Jul 9, 2011)

Cromer said:


> And I'm a Liefeld fan as well. *What of it?*


----------



## Parallax (Jul 9, 2011)

he sucks

that's what of it


----------



## Glued (Jul 9, 2011)

So much awesomeness.

Cool spinal column, but at least she got an ample basket.


----------



## Cromer (Jul 9, 2011)

pek


Parallax said:


> he sucks
> 
> that's what of it


Your opinion 


Ben Grimm said:


> So much awesomeness.
> 
> Cool spinal column, but at least she got an ample basket.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 9, 2011)

its objective fact


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 11, 2011)

Fuck yeah  and Marcus To is doing the art.

Now gimme a Cass and Steph book for my birthday, DC.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 11, 2011)

Knew it was coming but 52 in one month was enough that they didn't have to expand the directly next month.

Oh well I expect there will be a few of these.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 11, 2011)

From what I remember, the only comic book artist to have his own commercial.


----------



## Bender (Jul 11, 2011)

No words can describe my hate for the shade of red on Dick's Nightwing costume.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 11, 2011)

I miss the blue too 



_Damn _Starfire.









I like Nightwing's cover


----------



## Bender (Jul 11, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Fuck yeah  and Marcus To is doing the art.
> 
> Now gimme a Cass and Steph book for my birthday, DC.



November's when my birthday is. Those assholesm at DC better surprise me.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 11, 2011)

I like Tony Daniel art

but I kinda really don't wanna read Tony Daniel writing

it's conflicting

oh and lol Finch's book now has a co writer


----------



## illmatic (Jul 11, 2011)

They did say they were going to be strict about books coming out on time


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 11, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I miss the blue too
> 
> 
> 
> _Damn _Starfire.



Is that Two-Face on Venom on Batman: The Dark Knight cover?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 11, 2011)

Oh hey a Huntress series and a Penguin series...I'll keep an eye on those.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 12, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Is that Two-Face on Venom on Batman: The Dark Knight cover?



Yep

Also, cannot unsee Jason's penis in the Outlaws cover.


----------



## Slice (Jul 12, 2011)

What has been seen


----------



## Cromer (Jul 12, 2011)

Cannot be unseen


----------



## Nightblade (Jul 12, 2011)

nothing Starfire's orange boobs can't erase. 

but a Huntress mini? that's good, better than nothing. 
and gives me hope to maybe Captain Marvel and Power Girl getting their own deal.


----------



## Slice (Jul 12, 2011)

Nightblade said:


> but a Huntress mini? that's good, better than nothing.
> and gives me hope to maybe Captain Marvel and *Power Girl getting their own deal*.



At this point i would be happy to know if she even exists anymore.

And the Starfire outfit makes some of the Star Saphire costumes look tame.
They stuff Ivy in a full body suit and let Starfire and Harley run around like hookers - i just dont get it.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 12, 2011)

Yeah, I can't believe they managed to create an outfit for Starfire that covered even _less _than usual


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 12, 2011)

The totally out-of-nowhere shoulder pads makes the whole thing hilarious.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 12, 2011)

gotta protect those shoulders!


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 12, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> The totally out-of-nowhere shoulder pads makes the whole thing hilarious.



DC wants to show you how much they care about female characters by covering their sexy shoulders


----------



## Glued (Jul 12, 2011)

Shoulder pads, 90s nostalgia overwhelms me.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 12, 2011)

Penis jokes and shoulder pad cracks aside, I still think Outlaws looks like an awesome book. Or at least, I'm hoping its awesome.

The premise of Jason, Roy, and Star just goin around fucking shit up sounds too good to be true.

Also, since it's been a part of both covers, I REALLY hope that that baseball cap is a permanent part of Roy's costume.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 12, 2011)

Jokes aside, I'm really excited about this book.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 12, 2011)

Jokes aside, I'm not O:


----------



## Taleran (Jul 12, 2011)

DAWN OF THE FIRST DAY
-72 Hours Remain-


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 12, 2011)

> FRANKENSTEIN, AGENT OF S.H.A.D.E. #2
> Written by JEFF LEMIRE
> Art by ALBERTO PONTICELLI
> Cover by J.G. JONES
> ...



 

 plus a new book called .


----------



## Bender (Jul 12, 2011)

Starfire + shoulder pads?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 12, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> plus a new book called .



The Frankenstein book looks like its going to be really fun.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 12, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Jokes aside, I'm really excited about this book.



As am I, it looks like it has potential an I might just pick up the first issue or  two just to see how Roy is being written here.



ghstwrld said:


> plus a new book called .



Think i'm definitly going to give Frankenstein a try...also The Shade series i'll be looking forward to as well.

Also...Demon Knights continues to have me pumped.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 12, 2011)

Oh Harley


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 12, 2011)

I still don't get why it's okay to dress Harley up like a cheap whore, but you have to cover up Poison Ivy...shouldn't it be the other way around. 

Also I'm sorry but I just don't like Deadshot's redesign at all...i'm hoping it will grown on me, but I'm just not feeling it at all.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 12, 2011)

Yeah, I don't get it. I guess it's ok to have the anti-heroes wear as little as possible?



Also somebody just brought this to my attention... Deadshot's crotch.

Now I can't unsee it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 12, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Also I'm sorry but I just don't like *Deadshot's redesign* at all...i'm hoping it will grown on me, but I'm just not feeling it at all.



I was so focused on how shitty harley's design was that I didn't even notice that deadshot had also been given a shitty redesign.

Fuck.

EDIT: PENIS ARMOR!? 

DAMN YOU GABZILLA!!!


----------



## Glued (Jul 12, 2011)

Why does King Shark look like a hammerhead instead of a great white?

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 12, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I was so focused on how shitty harley's design was that I didn't even notice that deadshot had also been given a shitty redesign.
> 
> Fuck.
> 
> ...



I'm so sorry.







So I see a pattern. The male anti-heroes go commando. The female anti-heroes have barely-there-about-to-fall tops.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 12, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Why does King Shark look like a hammerhead instead of a great white?
> 
> THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!



As long as he keeps his theme song.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm outraged at these solicits

except for Frankenstein.  Not gonna lie that looks great.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 12, 2011)

the frankenstein FP tie-in is probably a lot of what we can expect. it's pretty good.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 13, 2011)

DC can't decide if it wants the Pants or not.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 13, 2011)

oh boy **

and wow. penis armor.


----------



## Bender (Jul 13, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Also I'm sorry but I just don't like Deadshot's redesign at all...i'm hoping it will grown on me, but I'm just not feeling it at all.



Poor Deadshot

poor, poor Deadshot  

What has DC done to you?


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 13, 2011)

Why is SInestro a GL now?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 13, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Why is SInestro a GL now?



Because he's better than Hal Jordan.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 13, 2011)

Spill horrible bosses audio review

So, um, I guess WW has another new outfit and it still doesn't at all look good.

That's 0 - 4 now?


----------



## illmatic (Jul 13, 2011)

The image was posted about 5 posts above yours 

The question - To wear pants or not to wear pants


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 13, 2011)




----------



## MrChubz (Jul 13, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> Because he's better than Hal Jordan.



Works for me. At least when he goes insane with power it'll make sense.

@ghstwrld: What's wrong with the newest outfit Wondy has?


----------



## Bender (Jul 13, 2011)

Ahahahahhahahhahahahah


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 13, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> @ghstwrld: What's wrong with the newest outfit Wondy has?



She looks stupid as fuck and not in the cool and brazen way good superhero costumes can, the way her well-known one does - well the non-prostitute versions, anyway.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 14, 2011)

It looks exactly like her classic costume.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 14, 2011)

So they decided on no pants for WW. 

This is hilarious.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 14, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> She looks stupid as fuck and not in the cool and brazen way good superhero costumes can, the way her well-known one does - well the non-prostitute versions, anyway.



its her classic costume with blue boots instead of red. I dont really like the decision but how is the 'classic' costume so much better?


----------



## Bender (Jul 14, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> It looks exactly like her classic costume.



No way. Her classic costumes colors was a lot more glamorous than her or should say DC's "darker" rendition.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 14, 2011)

Bender said:


> No way. Her classic costumes colors was a lot more glamorous than her or should say DC's "darker" rendition.



It not being flashy is probably due to lazyness from the writer. In any case, I have a bigger problem with Superman dressing like a hobo who was able to scrounge up enough money to buy half of a pair of Superman PJ's at a thrift store then I'll ever have with Wondy's new outfit.


----------



## Slice (Jul 14, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> Because he's better than Hal Jordan.



With this logic a whole lot of people from earth would be green lanterns.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 14, 2011)

They should just make one of the Bat-family a GL. They need a GL strong enough to compete with a fucking Daxamite GL (provided he still exists).


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 14, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> its her classic costume with blue boots instead of red. I dont really like the decision but how is the 'classic' costume so much better?



No, not really.  There's the totally outdated and random accessories; the ungood color scheme; stiff and uncomfortable-looking breastplate (or whatever that is) with too much detailing/textural effects; and bulky tiara and arm braces.  It's a hot mess of an ensemble.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 14, 2011)

It is really nothing like her Classic costume


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 14, 2011)

I laughed. Hard.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 14, 2011)

Oh boy Superman fighting Batman


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 14, 2011)

If that fight was in the OPverse, Supes would have never broken GL's chain.


----------



## Thor (Jul 14, 2011)

Supes is getting tag teamed.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 14, 2011)

I don't know what the OPverse is.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 14, 2011)

Oh. If you read One Piece you'd be aware that lolchains have been used so many times this arc that there is a new joke about how chains in OP are invincible.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 14, 2011)

Oh... the fugly art universe.


----------



## Angelus (Jul 14, 2011)

Lol, what's up with Superman wearing something that looks like protective gear on his arms and legs? Isn't he supposed to be - you know - (nearly) invulnerable? Or is he afraid of falling off his tricycle, hurting his knees?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 14, 2011)

Because a uniform looks better than pajamas.


----------



## Angelus (Jul 14, 2011)

Uniform my ass, it still looks like a pajama. Only difference is with his super intellect he finally managed to wear his underpants - well, under his pants.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 14, 2011)

My PJs never had knee pads.


----------



## Angelus (Jul 14, 2011)

It's a kryptonian pajama. Of course it would look different


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 14, 2011)

Touche.


----------



## Bender (Jul 14, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Oh boy Superman fighting Batman



lol 

Another fight where Batman wins by using Supes weakness for Lois Lane or should I say Wondy.


----------



## Rated R Superstar (Jul 15, 2011)

I need some help. I recently decided that im gonna starting reading comic books again. I havent read them in years. I have some questions about the DC reboot. 

1.Will these be all new comics debuting?
2.When do the comics start coming out?
3.Which of the "bat books" do fans and critics view as the best?
4. What exactly is ths "DC 51 new comics debut" anyway? lol. 

Im sorry if im confusing anyone. I just wanna know exactly what this is. Are these all new chapters? Are the storylines starting from the beginning or something? Thanks guys. I appreciate it.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 15, 2011)

Rated R Superstar said:


> I need some help. I recently decided that im gonna starting reading comic books again. I havent read them in years. I have some questions about the DC reboot.
> 
> 1.Will these be all new comics debuting?


No. Some new, some with the numbering reset to 1





> 2.When do the comics start coming out?


September





> 3.Which of the "bat books" do fans and critics view as the best?


Batwoman





> 4. What exactly is ths "DC 51 52 new comics debut" anyway? lol


 I don't know all the details.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 15, 2011)

1) Yes
2) September. More specifically I think it's the 19th.
3) Couldn't tell you.
4) Basically this is DC's answer to them hemorrhaging money and readers by writing crappy stories what muck-up continuity and having to retcon them, just to start the cycle over again.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 15, 2011)

I agree with Lil  Mo post


----------



## Parallax (Jul 15, 2011)

Rated R Superstar said:


> 1.Will these be all new comics debuting?
> 
> 
> 2.When do the comics start coming out?
> ...



1.  Some but most are just being reset at issue no.1

2.Starts August 31st with Justice League.  Then new titles start rolling out every Wednesday through the month of September

3.Depends, Batwoman or Batman right now.  Most hold Batman Inc due next year in high esteem

4.Your wording is a bit wonky but I think to answer your question is that it's a brand new start for DC so new readers can get in without any trouble so all the comics that month are starting off fresh with issue #1


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 15, 2011)

Batman will have the best writer, Batwoman will have the best art.


----------



## Cromer (Jul 15, 2011)

Rated R Superstar said:


> 1.Will these be all new comics debuting?
> 2.When do the comics start coming out?
> 3.Which of the "bat books" do fans and critics view as the best?
> 4. What exactly is ths "DC 51 new comics debut" anyway? lol.
> ...



1. No. Classic characters for the most part, and some characters from the Wildstorm imprint being restarted in the main DC Universe. A few newbies though (Demon Knights )

2. September

3. Right now Detective Comics is taking it home, so a lotta people have high expectations for 'Batman' in September, due to the Detective writer, Scott Snyder, moving titles.

4. Mostly same-day print-and-digital initiative.

Some storylines wil stil retain importance (Blackest Night) but it's supposed to be a jump-in point for newbies and casuals who've been out of touch for a while.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 15, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> 4) Basically this is DC's answer to them hemorrhaging money and readers by writing crappy stories what muck-up continuity and having to retcon them, just to start the cycle over again.



Since when is DC hemorrhaging money?


----------



## Cromer (Jul 15, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Since when is DC hemorrhaging money?


The industry is shrinking, but I don't think DC are losing money just yet.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 15, 2011)

Cromer said:


> The industry is shrinking, but I don't think DC are losing money just yet.



Yeah, that's what I thought.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 15, 2011)

DC is down to 25% market share in a already shrinking market.

So this reboot/relaunch would seen to be a move to try and make sure DC comics is here in 5  - 10 years


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 16, 2011)

October solicits: 

So the Witchblade chick in Teen Titans apparently has spider powers. And I only just realized they replaced Green Arrow's beard for super side burns.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 16, 2011)

Ollie Queen starring in the Running Man is _almost_ a comic I would check out.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 16, 2011)

that is some laziness on the aquaman cover

also WW with pants again, but this time featuring gold instead of silver. hahaha


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 16, 2011)

dat Deadman cover


----------



## Thor (Jul 16, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> that is some laziness on the aquaman cover
> 
> also WW with pants again, but this time featuring gold instead of silver. hahaha



Maybe she has mutliple costumes? Or she like's to change style once every two issues? She's a woman after all they don't like wearing the same shit everyday.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 16, 2011)

After seeing your quotes in that gay thread, its just really disturbing when you make remarks like that!

Obviously thats not the case.

Anyway last thought: Mon El's new look is a big improvement. I always thought he looked retarded.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 16, 2011)

Oh and the Hawkman villain and the fact that someone is actually named Bugg is both hilarious and freighting in equal measure.


----------



## Bushido Style (Jul 16, 2011)

Well, looks like I'm  getting back into DC comics. For the most part, I haven't cared for DC outside of the Bat comics. A shitload of these look interesting like Static and Blue Beetle. And who would of thought I'd be interested in reading a book about Hawkman and Mr Terrific 

And I hope the Teen Titans book is somewhat good. The last couple of arcs I read before I dropped it were real average.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 16, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> October solicits:
> 
> So the Witchblade chick in Teen Titans apparently has spider powers. And I only just realized they *replaced Green Arrow's beard* for super side burns.


----------



## Slice (Jul 16, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> So the Witchblade chick in Teen Titans apparently has spider powers.



I dont know why but i would have liked to see her be exactly like the Witchblade.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 16, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Ollie Queen starring in the Running Man is _almost_ a comic I would check out.



Tim's face is klling me.

Hawk and Dove


----------



## Bender (Jul 16, 2011)

@ Wondy's pants & Green Arrow's side burns


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 16, 2011)

LIEFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELD!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 16, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Tim's face is klling me.
> 
> Hawk and Dove



I love how he doesn't even try to be subtle anymore about how much he sucks with feet. That LBFA comic was right on the money.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 16, 2011)

Bender said:


> @ Wondy's pants & Green Arrow's side burns



Ollie's mustash is silly but this shit looks like he's some annoying extreme sports meathead.

I bet they have some cringeworthy political comentary too : /


----------



## Bender (Jul 16, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> LIEFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELD!



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCpMIe8FjEU&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 16, 2011)

Whenever you're reading it you're not thinking about the writer or the story or even the characters, you're just thinking:

*"LIEFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELD!"*

And by read I mean get two pages in them skim the rest of the issue to see if anything important happened before skipping to the next issue by art by an actual artist.


----------



## Bender (Jul 16, 2011)

I could get over what they did to Supes and Wondy, and Tim but fucking over a man's beautiful beard (In this case Green Arrow's) is going too far.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 16, 2011)

We need to start a drinking game and take a shot every time they re-retcon something back to the way it was.


----------



## Bender (Jul 16, 2011)

^

Let me tell ya right now I'm a mean drunk


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 16, 2011)

I just read the solicit of TT and 



> TEEN TITANS #2
> Written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> Art and cover by BRETT BOOTH and NORM RAPMUND
> On sale OCTOBER 26 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T
> ...


----------



## Thor (Jul 16, 2011)

Green Arrow looks much better and cooler. No longer is he Robin Hood 0.5.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm confused. Is Wally going to be The Flash or is Barry going to be The Flash?


----------



## illmatic (Jul 16, 2011)

Barry will be the Flash.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 16, 2011)

That blows. What happens to Wally then?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 16, 2011)

Actually, has there been any mention of Wally or Bart in the post reboot DC? I'm still not sure who is supposed to be Kid Flash in Teen Titans.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 16, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I just read the solicit of TT and



Truely a name to piss your pants in terror over.

Fear me I am Bugg!!!! Fear Me Fear Me!


----------



## Thor (Jul 16, 2011)

If Bart is staying as Kid Flash then Wally will be put in limbo or be made into a "new character" probably Green Flash or something retarded like that. If Bart isn't Kid Flash then Wally will retake the mantle.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 16, 2011)

Wasn't there a rumor of Wally becoming a Green Lantern or something?


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 16, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> Actually, has there been any mention of Wally or Bart in the post reboot DC? I'm still not sure who is supposed to be Kid Flash in Teen Titans.



Bart is the Kid Flash appearing in Teen Titans and Barry is the Flash, I think this was already confirmed.

Wally and his family are MIA, though.



Emperor Joker said:


> Truely a name to piss your pants in terror over.
> 
> Fear me I am Bugg!!!! Fear Me Fear Me!



Shaking in mah boots.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 16, 2011)

Alright then. Thanks gabzilla.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 16, 2011)

You are welcome


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 17, 2011)

If Wally gets changed for the worse DC just lost a reader forever. Why DC wants to have a character that was gone for more then 2 decades take the mantle of an established and well-liked character is beyond me. I don't dislike Barry, but this would be like if Diana died, stayed dead for an entire generation of readers, in the mean time Donna Troy takes over as WW, then Diana comes back, they make here WW again, and they turn Donna Troy into a Tamaranian or something.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 17, 2011)

Thor said:


> If Bart isn't Kid Flash then Wally will retake the mantle.



that would be such a a Big Floppy slap in Wally's Face, hes not some kid that filled in the role for a year , he is "The Flash" to the majority


----------



## Thor (Jul 17, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Wasn't there a rumor of Wally becoming a Green Lantern or something?



First time I've heard that. That would be an utterly retarded idea.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah how did that rumor even get started


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 17, 2011)

Wally is my Flash : /


----------



## Slice (Jul 17, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> If Wally gets changed for the worse DC just lost a reader forever. Why DC wants to have a character that was gone for more then 2 decades take the mantle of an established and well-liked character is beyond me. I don't dislike Barry, but this would be like if Diana died, stayed dead for an entire generation of readers, in the mean time Donna Troy takes over as WW, then Diana comes back, they make here WW again, and they turn Donna Troy into a Tamaranian or something.



Technically if you look at every comic ever published there should be more people pissed off that Barry was gone so long and that Wally took over. You just feel that way because _you_ grew up with Wally as the Flash and Barry as the "old and replaced model".

The same thing applies to me (and many others) because Babs returns as Batgirl.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 17, 2011)

They'll all be back, it just may take a while.

And they may go through the continuity wringer like Supergirl and Powergirl and Donna Troy...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 17, 2011)

Or worse, Hawkman.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 17, 2011)

Barry's death was amazing, though, If my favourite character went out in a blaze of glory, I would be pissed if they revived him.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 17, 2011)

Really? Because I wouldnt be pissed if Ultimate Peter got resurrected!


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 17, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Really? Because I wouldnt be pissed if Ultimate Peter got resurrected!



Ultimate Spider-man is not the kind of character that stays dead, though. It's like killing Superman, you know it won't stick.


----------



## Slice (Jul 17, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Ultimate Spider-man is not the kind of character that stays dead, though. It's like killing Superman, you know it won't stick.



With Barry Allen one of the last bastions of permanent death has fallen.

I wonder how much of this was planned in advance to bring those characters into the spotlight again so they will be there for the reboot.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 17, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Ultimate Spider-man is not the kind of character that stays dead, though. It's like killing Superman, you know it won't stick.



Yeah... what makes you say that? Most Ultimate deaths, even for major characters, stick. 

Loads more likely to stick than, say, the Flash


----------



## Slice (Jul 17, 2011)

He is still the record holder for late resurrections though.
Considering he was killed in 1985 he already wasnt around anymore when i held my first comic book in my hands.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 17, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Or worse, Hawkman.



Hawkman and Hawkgirl are characters where I simply stopped caring what their background is.

It's just not worth deciphering it.

In my mind I just give them the GLU background ?___?


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 17, 2011)

Slice said:


> With Barry Allen one of the last bastions of permanent death has fallen.
> 
> I wonder how much of this was planned in advance to bring those characters into the spotlight again so they will be there for the reboot.



Well Didio and co. have wanted to go back to the Silver Age since forever, so...



Petes12 said:


> Yeah... what makes you say that? Most Ultimate deaths, even for major characters, stick.
> 
> Loads more likely to stick than, say, the Flash



Marvel deaths stick?

Again, Spider-man is like Superman and Batman. You know he won't stay dead.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 17, 2011)

It's not the main line's spider-man. No one's deaths stick... except a lot of them in Ultimate Marvel. They can get away with it there.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 17, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Well Didio and co. have wanted to go back to the Silver Age since forever, so...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This isn't 616 it's the Ultimate verse and for the most part , aside from Beast and one or two others....you stay dead in the Ultimate universe.


----------



## Whimsy (Jul 17, 2011)

The ultimate line will probably fold before they felt it was ok to resurrect Spidey I'd reckon


----------



## Cromer (Jul 17, 2011)

I'd hate for Ultimate Spidey, or 616 Bucky, to get reincarnated. Sadly, Bucky probably will be back.

And this is the DC thread anyway. I reckon if enough people send in letters or something that Wally will come back in some fashion.


----------



## Thor (Jul 17, 2011)

616 Bucky needs to come back to life to die a better death. He deserved better.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 17, 2011)

Thor said:


> 616 Bucky needs to come back to life to die a better death. He deserved better.



This. It needs to be revealed that Fury faked Bucky's death so that he could work for him under the radar.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 17, 2011)

Slice said:


> Technically if you look at every comic ever published there should be more people pissed off that Barry was gone so long and that Wally took over. You just feel that way because _you_ grew up with Wally as the Flash and Barry as the "old and replaced model".
> 
> The same thing applies to me (and many others) because Babs returns as Batgirl.



That's why if DC wanted to make Barry The Flash again they shouldn't have waited 2 and a half decades. If you take who still buys DC comics and ask them who's the first person you think of when they think of The Flash, it'll be Wally West.

Batgirl is the same thing (too a lesser extent, sine I'm sure there's still a decent crowd who has been buying comics long enough to have actually bought a book where Barb was Batgirl, unlike Wally). However I like and care about Wally much more then I care about Cass, so I'm not very ticked about that one.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 17, 2011)

Slice said:


> *With Barry Allen one of the last bastions of permanent death has fallen.
> *
> I wonder how much of this was planned in advance to bring those characters into the spotlight again so they will be there for the reboot.



#1 rule of comics. No one but Uncle Ben stays dead.


----------



## The Red Gil (Jul 17, 2011)

So yeah, Dick Grayson is Nightwing again.

Thanks, Grant.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 17, 2011)

k... whats that have to do with grant and did you really expect it to last?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 17, 2011)

The Red Gil said:


> So yeah, Dick Grayson is Nightwing again.
> 
> Thanks, Grant.



How does that have anything at all to do with Grant Morrison? He's not the one whose reverting Grayson back.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 17, 2011)

It's the editors who are fucking everything up : /


----------



## illmatic (Jul 17, 2011)

Its not like he was going to be batman forever.


----------



## Thor (Jul 17, 2011)

It's not like Dick could remain as Batman forever. Although he was a damn good Batman.


----------



## Spica (Jul 18, 2011)

I wouldn't mind that he went back to being Nightwing if it wasn't for the horrible redesign. Lack of fingerstripes and blue. Urgh.


----------



## Thor (Jul 18, 2011)

I never liked the black and blue. He looked like a male stripper.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 18, 2011)

Thor said:


> I never liked the black and blue. He looked like a male stripper.



Because it was black and blue? o_o

In other news, Superman looks ridiculous


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

It was because it was super tight and showed off his ass

Look good thoughnohomo


----------



## Thor (Jul 18, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Because it was black and blue? o_o
> 
> In other news, Superman looks ridiculous






Yeah it was.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 18, 2011)

Thor said:


> Yeah it was.



What does the color have to do with him looking like a stripper? His new outfit is practically the same, only red instead blue.



The Pink Ninja said:


> It was because it was super tight and showed off his ass
> 
> Look good thoughnohomo



Like the new one?


----------



## Spica (Jul 18, 2011)

Hey, it was that butt that dragged me and my friend in.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 18, 2011)

There's nothing wrong with that


----------



## Slice (Jul 18, 2011)

As usual with women - always reducing men to their looks.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 18, 2011)

I'm honestly not all that pissed about the red anymore. But the lack of fingerstripes...


----------



## Slice (Jul 18, 2011)

Really? 

I have more problems with the red since it is such an aggressive color and Dick is a really friendly and lighthearted person.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 18, 2011)

Slice said:


> As usual with women - always reducing men to their looks.



We like objectifying men, what can I say.

We are so horrible.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 18, 2011)

blue or red doesnt really matter to me. And I like the new look better otherwise... I never like the second skin look much and the new boots and gloves help get away from that. Plus, bat gauntlets are always cool


----------



## Slice (Jul 18, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> We like objectifying men, what can I say.
> We are so horrible.



Yes you are 

And yet we still like you...


----------



## Parallax (Jul 18, 2011)

well we men are no better


from a time to time


----------



## Spica (Jul 18, 2011)

What, I think some people are having a strange impression of me. It's not like I ogle fictional men a lot, but Dick has a nice tush.  

Anyway. I just don't think the red is suitable. There are too many red heroes as it is, the brilliant blue was what defined Nightwing from all the others. He's an acrobat. Moves around a lot. Need clothes that can handle it, so shiny tight leotard is the way to go.  

If there's someone looking like a stripper it's Black Canary, but that topic is way overdue.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 18, 2011)

I think the red sucks honestly

but who cares cause I'm not buying that title.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

You know reading about the Superman reboot on Tumblr made me feel sick. It feels so much like one of those desperate things you hear businesses doing that crash the company into the ground.

In my mind I can see the talking heads on some TV documentary or the news saying how it all went wrong.

I'm not saying it will nesscessarily bad: I watched Young Justice recently and that sold me on the idea of a quasi-reboot where a tweaking of characters can add to something. And I'm not going to miss most of the stuff they cut out because I know the writers love it so much they bring it back plus the people who love it will make their displeasure known. And digital releases should increase revenues ad help the company.

It just feels bad to me, like they could just really wreck DC forever and before its time.

T____T


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

I also worry everything, even if well written, will just feel wierd and offputting. Like I'm reading an extended mashup an elseworlds story and year one story.


----------



## Bender (Jul 18, 2011)

Thor said:


> I never liked the black and blue. He looked like a male stripper.



I rather look like that male stripper you describe Dick looking like then looking like a hobo like Superman does.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jul 18, 2011)

> Cyborg will also be part of the team, with Johns calling him, "the modern-day, 21st-century superhero".
> 
> "He represents all of us in a lot of ways. If we have a cellphone and we're texting on it, we are a cyborg ? that's what a cyborg is, using technology as an extension of ourselves."



love this faux-meaningful bollocks being used so johns can shoehorn his pet (incredibly boring) titan into JL


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

Hey, question, since every hero is having their origins re-established except for the Batfam...

How is the JLA going to work?


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 18, 2011)

> "He represents all of us in a lot of ways. If we have a cellphone and we're texting on it, we are a cyborg ? that's what a cyborg is, using technology as an extension of ourselves."



**


----------



## Bender (Jul 18, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Hey, question, since every hero is having their origins re-established except for the Batfam...
> 
> How is the JLA going to work?



According to the synopsis for JLA he's the one that starts the signal that alerts all heroes of the global alien crisis. In other words, like the Justice League cartoon he's the one responsible for grouping together the heroes.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 18, 2011)

So Grant Morrison gave another interview on the Orbiting Podcast and he revealed some details about Action and more stuff about Superman.

He is going to be trying to channel a relaunch in the way earlier comics would be done. Not in plot but in how kinetic and constantly in motion they are. To that extent the First issue jumps right into it and Superman doesn't stop moving for the whole thing. Also apparently it doesn't cut away in the first issue because you don't need to with a character who moves this fast.


----------



## Bender (Jul 18, 2011)

^

Another reason why Grant Morrison is the only thing that keeps DC comics from being complete and absolute shit.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 18, 2011)

That's sorta interesting


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

Why is he Batman?


----------



## Parallax (Jul 18, 2011)

I may think the costume is silly but I absolutely can't wait for Morrison's Action Comics


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

Seriously, how many fucking heroes are left who have parents?

Do only orphans become writers for DC?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 18, 2011)

I just love that DC's official press release on their blog thing said superman is more brooding, like that's a positive buzz word. 

Still, my only major concern over any of this is Perez writing.

edit: superman covers-


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

It's not nesscessarily gonna be bad but killing off Ma and Pa Kent... that shit is hard to undo.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 18, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> It's not nesscessarily gonna be bad but killing off Ma and Pa Kent... that shit is hard to undo.



Where there's a will there's way


----------



## Parallax (Jul 18, 2011)

they've died dozens of times.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

*Tries to stay optimistic*

Death by origin story is hard to undiddle. It's why Uncle Ben is still a corpse.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 18, 2011)

well it's fine either way.  Superman has done just fine with or without them.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 18, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I just love that DC's official press release on their blog thing said superman is more brooding, like that's a positive buzz word.
> 
> Still, my only major concern over any of this is Perez writing.
> 
> edit: superman covers-



Kon changed his hair again? Didn't it look different in the first cover?

Supergirl vs Superman? Geez I've never seen that one before!


----------



## Slice (Jul 18, 2011)

She looks even more like Powergirl in that cover - which is a good thing.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

Not really, I like Powergirl and Supergirl to be different people since I like them both.

If they're almalgemated into one character someone loses out.

Powergirl wouldn't hang out at a shitty old Dracula screening with Steph and Supergirl being a sexy domm is kinda creepy ?___?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 18, 2011)

honestly i think supergirl's new look is pretty stupid.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Supergirl vs Superman? Geez I've never seen that one before!



I'd have a drinking game where you took a shot every time there was a cover with Superheroes fighting each other on it be we'd all died of liver failure.

I'd have a game where you took a shot everytime the was a cover with a pile of dead heroes with villains or another hero standing triumphant on their corpses but *there isn't enough booze in the world*


----------



## Slice (Jul 18, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Not really, I like Powergirl and Supergirl to be different people since I like them both.



Genetically they arent really that different 

If they made her a bit older it is really just logical she would look more like Powergirl.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 18, 2011)

Why are so many good guys deciding to fight Superman? Good guys shouldn't be fighting the best guy, it doesn't make sense.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 18, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I'd have a drinking game where you took a shot every time there was a cover with Superheroes fighting each other on it be we'd all died of liver failure.
> 
> I'd have a game where you took a shot everytime the was a cover with a pile of dead heroes with villains or another hero standing triumphant on their corpses but *there isn't enough booze in the world*



I liked this one:


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

Slice said:


> Genetically they arent really that different



Whose talking about genetics? I don't care about their powerset or their costumes.

I'm talking about *C H A R A C T E R*

She can't be both Kara and karen at the same time


----------



## Slice (Jul 18, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Whose talking about genetics? I don't care about their powerset or their costumes.
> 
> I'm talking about *C H A R A C T E R*
> 
> She can't be both Kara and karen at the same time



Well i was talking about looks only, since you cant judge character from two cover artworks.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 18, 2011)

Karen Starr is apparently still around, so they aren't amalgamated or anything.

And I'm still disappointed that Lois is no longer married to Clark. At least, though, they are still in each others' lives, but very disappointing. I wasn't expecting Ma and Pa Kent to buy it, but perhaps I should have, as Grant obviously wanted to take Superman back to his 1938 days from the start. It should be interesting to see where he goes with this, but this is dangerous territory. I honestly have similar worries as Pink Ninja about if they fuck up... but I've been trying to stay as positive as I can. I think they have a lot of great stuff on board and I'm hoping that the writers can open up the much broader lineup of titles they have.

In other news: What the hell is up with Ollie's beard on the Green Arrow #2 Cover?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

He's taken up extremeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee sports.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Why are so many good guys deciding to fight Superman? Good guys shouldn't be fighting the best guy, it doesn't make sense.





gabzilla said:


> I liked this one:



Any time someone hits Superboy is good.

And it's just an old, old cliche.

Hence Superdickery : /


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 18, 2011)

It looks like Ollie's trying to rock mutton chops or something and he's failing spectacuarly at it


----------



## Slice (Jul 18, 2011)

I have to say the only three things i hate in the reboot designs so far are:

- Hooker Quinn
- Starhooker
- The 90s extreme titans

And that is mainly because it is so inconsistent with the rest of the designs. Add a few "strange decission" reactions to that (like Ollies beard) but i'm fine with the rest.

This has just as well the potential to be really good and not the crapfest the internet wants it to be.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 18, 2011)

When you say "Starhooker", are you talking Starfire? Because that's pretty damn consistent with everything we've ever seen out of Starfire.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

Starhooker ?___?


----------



## Slice (Jul 18, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> When you say "Starhooker", are you talking Starfire? Because that's pretty damn consistent with everything we've ever seen out of Starfire.



Yes Starfire.

And while she has always been nearly naked i meant that the theme here in the reboot was that the women are more covered up - while these two got worse.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 18, 2011)

Maybe to Tamaranians less is more.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

Starfire's outfit was already rock bottom of burned out fetishville to me and she didn't go a storyarc without getting nekkid so little difference will be noticed.

If Harley's outfit lasts 12 issues I'll be amazed. I'm more pissed that by appearance she's becoming yet another Gotham City psycho than the more lighthearted villain who Batman would occasionally let go.


----------



## Gallant (Jul 18, 2011)

Slice said:


> Yes Starfire.
> 
> And while she has always been nearly naked i meant that the theme here in the reboot was that the women are more covered up - while these two got worse.



Starfire gets special permission to fly around with barely anything on apparently.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

It's cultural


----------



## Slice (Jul 18, 2011)

Seen on a certain imageboard:





And i still cant get over how great that 'awesome face' by King Shark is.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 18, 2011)

Jawesome.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 18, 2011)

Interview about Nightwing, doesn't sound bad.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2011)

I often feel a lot of great characters fall down when it comes to villains, exspecially if they're part of someone else's extended legacy like the BatFam.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 18, 2011)

ok so I've resisted saying this for a while because there's already plenty of Lee bashing going around. But what the fuck is with Superman's blank emotionless stare, which isn't even directed at Batman, on that JL cover?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 18, 2011)

More than a few people have mentioned it, though I can't remember if it was here or not. It looks like "GOD DAMN IT, BATMAN, STOP LEAVING AN EMPTY COFFEE POT IN TH-Oh, shit, is that camera on?"


----------



## Penance (Jul 19, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Because it was black and blue? o_o
> 
> In other news, Superman looks ridiculous


----------



## Rod (Jul 19, 2011)

In a quite unrelated note, surprisingly this has more of a Dean Cain vibe than C. Reeve.

U.u...


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 19, 2011)

I predict financial pain in DC's future if they somehow manage to ruin Superman.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 19, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I predict financial pain in DC's future if they somehow manage to ruin Superman.



You must of missed out on the Grounded arc


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 19, 2011)

illmatic said:


> You must of missed out on the Grounded arc



I haven't bought a comic book in quite a while actually. I was planning on getting back into it about a month ago, but then the reboot was announced the very next day so I'm waiting. That being said, DC is trying their hardest to make me lose my optimism for this. Wally West is in limbo and now Supes has the potential to be an angsty orphan asshole. DC really can't sell me on their 15 books featuring Batman alone.

Edit: Darkseid possibly being the pimp daddy he was back in the Silver Age is beginning to become the only hope I have for this reboot.


----------



## Glued (Jul 19, 2011)

Superman wearing jeans, I wonder if those jeans can survive going through atmospheric re-entry like his former costume.

They would be the most awesome jeans ever.



gabzilla said:


> *Jawesome*.



Ah the Street Sharks, god I miss the 90s.


----------



## Thor (Jul 19, 2011)

Bigger pic of Superman

IMO the only reason for the drastic change to Superman is because DC lost the rights to his origin to the decendants of the original creator.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 19, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Ah the Street Sharks, god I miss the 90s.



Oh god I remember those! I cant believe I forgot they existed! Shocking that they haven't been remade into a summer blockbuster action movie yet


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 19, 2011)

much like with deadshot, the cover to red hood 2 can't be unseen. Naturally, I decided to share!


----------



## Glued (Jul 19, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> much like with deadshot, the cover to red hood 2 can't be unseen. Naturally, I decided to share!



Brain soap, I need Brain soap.

What is it with all these male reproductive organs.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 19, 2011)

damn yous Petes 

damn yous


----------



## illmatic (Jul 19, 2011)

> Wired: ...DC Comics’ new plan, which is not only to reboot its series, but also deliver same-day digital comics, which is smart. Not only does it open up new revenue streams and subscribers, but it also concedes that the future belongs to digital comics. Do you feel something is getting lost in that technological transition?
> 
> Morrison: We’re trying too hard to re-create comics on the digital screen, and I think that’s a mistake. I think there is a lot more we could be doing. Digital comics should become a much more fractal experience, where you can use hypertext to get character histories at the press of a button, or be able to play sections of the story in game form or whatever — something. And I’m sure someone is already working on how to do that right now. Certainly, I’m thinking along those lines, but there is a lot of interesting work to be done to create comics for that medium.



I like the sound of this idea


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 19, 2011)

That's a pretty cool idea.

Like in the first issue of Morrison's batman, if I have no fucking idea who kirk langstrom is I should be able to click on him and have a little bio pop up with the basic gist on who he is and what he's about. And at the bottom of that small pop up should be a link to an extended bio of him on DC's website.

Obviously this feature would be optional, so that longtime fans wouldn't even need to worry about accidentally clicking on one.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 19, 2011)

That really is great, it would come in handy for a lot of people, myself included


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 19, 2011)

Um, how much are their digital comics?


----------



## illmatic (Jul 19, 2011)

The same price as the paper comics


----------



## illmatic (Jul 19, 2011)

_
Here is a preview for the DC Relaunch of the new Justice League #1 from the superstar creative team of Geoff Johns, Jim Lee and Scott Williams!

This is from the free DC Comics Preview available in local comic shops this week!_


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 19, 2011)

Oh good, he's drawn 6 pages


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 19, 2011)

Kyle running over an alien with a GL firetruck is the coolest thing I've ever seen.

Edit: NVM, it's Hal. I can't tell white people apart.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 19, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Kyle running over an alien with a GL firetruck is the coolest thing I've ever seen.



Hal is the only earth GL at the time this preview take place since JL#1 has been confirmed to take place in the past to show the how & the why of now famous JL being formed.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 19, 2011)

I always get the two confused. Usually I go by the rule if I'm not sure which one it is and they're doing something cool, it's Kyle. If not, it's Hal.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 19, 2011)

illmatic said:


> _
> Here is a preview for the DC Relaunch of the new Justice League #1 from the superstar creative team of Geoff Johns, Jim Lee and Scott Williams!
> 
> This is from the free DC Comics Preview available in local comic shops this week!_



Nothing about this is impressive, or even interesting.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 19, 2011)

Aside from GL firetrucks.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 19, 2011)

there's some first looks at the art from action comics, batman and superman around too.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 19, 2011)

post the action comics one


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 19, 2011)

Justice League looks like the DC version of the ultimates...but not good. Chubz had it right, GL firetrucks...that's it.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 19, 2011)

and we'll all still read it :x

except Ghostworld

he's too indie for that shit


----------



## illmatic (Jul 19, 2011)

*DC to Publish 1,200-Page Hardcover Collection of 'New 52' Issues*

DC COMICS: THE NEW 52, a massive hardcover collection that collects every single one of these debut issues. Hitting stores on December 7th just in time for the holiday season, this 1,216-page compilation will sell for $150.00 and include such issues as:

• JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 by Geoff Johns and Jim Lee
• ACTION COMICS #1 by Grant Morrison and Rags Morales
• BATMAN #1 by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo
• GREEN LANTERN #1 by Geoff Johns and Doug Mahnke
• SWAMP THING #1 by Scott Snyder and Yanick Paquette
• STORMWATCH #1 by Paul Cornell and Miguel Sepulveda
• TEEN TITANS #1 by Scott Lobdell and Brett Booth
• And 45 more!


So its about $2.88 per comic


----------



## Parallax (Jul 19, 2011)

lol Teen Titans as a selling point


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 19, 2011)

You know, there are times when I think ive come to terms with the fact that my favorite character's book is going to be terribad. Then someone makes another joke


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 19, 2011)

I'm loving the insane "Puny Goddamn Humans" face that Superman has on this cover.


----------



## Nightblade (Jul 20, 2011)

how'd they manage to catch him I wonder.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 20, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> You know, there are times when I think ive come to terms with the fact that my favorite character's book is going to be terribad. Then someone makes another joke



it's ok man you are among friends


----------



## Glued (Jul 20, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> You know, there are times when I think ive come to terms with the fact that my favorite character's book is going to be terribad. Then someone makes another joke



I forget, is your favorite character Bart, Wally or Tim?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2011)

That's my biggest sore point too, I'm used to Tim being in some shitty titans comic so that was no big deal. Except now that'll be the only comic he appears in


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 20, 2011)

He'll still have cameos in Nightwing and Batman, right? So we'll have to do with that for now.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 20, 2011)

He's a really popular character you know, he'll be back within his own series soon enough.

I mean Robin and Red Robin combined has about 200 issues. I wish Steph's run as Batgirl had been allowed to go on that long : /

That's stuff B and C list characters can only dream of...


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 20, 2011)

Yeah, I'm going to miss Steph's book. I really liked it.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2011)

dream book: 90s batman sidekick team book starring tim, cass, and steph


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 20, 2011)

Ever since Damian, I've wanted an all Robin book. Damian, Dick, Jason(not psycho, just maim happy), and Tim. The four Robins working together. Won't ever happen, but one can hope.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 20, 2011)

While we're talking about dream comics a Wondergirl and Ravager series would be great way to fill 24 issues...



Bergelmir said:


> Ever since Damian, I've wanted an all Robin book. Damian, Dick, Jason(not psycho, just maim happy), and Tim. The four Robins working together. Won't ever happen, but one can hope.



Unless you want Gabs to shoot you this post needs a swift editing, your count is one short...


----------



## Taleran (Jul 20, 2011)

illmatic said:


> *DC to Publish 1,200-Page Hardcover Collection of 'New 52' Issues*
> 
> DC COMICS: THE NEW 52, a massive hardcover collection that collects every single one of these debut issues. Hitting stores on December 7th just in time for the holiday season, this 1,216-page compilation will sell for $150.00 and include such issues as:
> 
> ...



That is a ridiculously dumb idea.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 20, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> While we're talking about dream comics a Wondergirl and Ravager series would be great way to fill 24 issues...
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you want Gabs to shoot you this post needs a swift editing, your count is one short...



Missing? Who's missing? Steph?

Steph is not really a Robin to me. I never read the issues where she was one. Plus I like her as Batgirl much much more.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jul 20, 2011)

oh for fuck's sake they're turning supes into martian manhunter


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2011)

Taleran said:


> That is a ridiculously dumb idea.



That was my thought too. It won't even be available at the same time as the first issues release, so everyone will have already bought the first issues that they care about.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 20, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I forget, is your favorite character Bart, Wally or Tim?



Tim. With Bart and Conner both being tied for 3rd (Dick's second).

But yea, I fully expect Tim to get his own book soon enough, because like Pink Ninja said, he's such a consistently "decent" seller that I doubt they'll keep him out for long. Especially if Teen Titans tanks (which it will).



Petes12 said:


> dream book: 90s batman sidekick team book starring tim, cass, and steph



I would love this, but I'd kind of want Tim to be in a supporting role there, taking a backseat to cass and steph.

But my dream book would probably be Young Justice, but in the same tone as the Peter David stuff. And yea there's the argument that the characters are all mature now, but just because you're mature doesn't mean you can't have any fun. Also, I don't know why DC hasn't realized it yet, but YJ as TT just doesn't work. The ONLY time it worked was under Johns.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2011)

YJ to TT is just a name change in theory. As always its just about how its written.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 20, 2011)

Maybe, but with that name change meant all the fun of Young Justice had to go and all the typical teenage angst of Teen Titans had to come in.

Now I do like how the various characters matured, and even like how bart went from impulse to kid flash. I just wish those characters would mellow out. I don't like the idea of Teen Titans as a 100% serious superhero squad. They should be like 75% serious, 25% fun and hanging out.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 20, 2011)

Batwoman looks awesome.



Petes12 said:


> dream book: 90s batman sidekick team book starring tim, cass, and steph



Bat Family book. That's all I want DC. Why don't you want my money?



Bergelmir said:


> Missing? Who's missing? Steph?
> 
> Steph is not really a Robin to me. I never read the issues where she was one. Plus I like her as Batgirl much much more.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 20, 2011)

Her leg, what the fuck?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2011)

the boot is pointing towards you, almost. 

and lol I immediately thought of Tim being like the new oracle or something when you said he should take a backseat to the other 2.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 20, 2011)

gabzilla said:


>


















gabz is going to shank me. 


EDIT: Oh wow, that looks really awkward positioning for Babs.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2011)

gabzilla said:


>



Robin is a man's job you can tell by the manly name


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## The Pink Ninja (Jul 20, 2011)

I don't see anyt off. I mean it's not the pose I'd pull when swinging through the air but its her cover.

I'm more creeped out by Bruce Wayne: Fashion designer honestly. To get a suit that tight you'd need to make a bodycast and I'm wash it at least once before wearing it if yah know what I mean ?___?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2011)

I did kind of think we were past Batman and friends swinging through the air by wires with no grappling gun like they're spider-man though.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 20, 2011)

Yea, swinging is SO 1996. Gliding is where it's at now.

Unless you're Dick Grayson, who gets around by falling...with style.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 20, 2011)

Actually, her legs have looked weird in the covers too.



Bergelmir said:


> gabz is going to shank me.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Oh wow, that looks really awkward positioning for Babs.







Petes12 said:


> Robin is a man's job you can tell by the manly name



Female Robins don't exist, obviously.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 20, 2011)

I wonder if she's using an exoskeleton for her legs...that might explain why they look so odd...


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Female Robins don't exist, obviously.



I was kidding 

maybe the  face wouldve been better.

I really dont think theres anything wrong with the picture. She must have one hell of a physical therapist though, since that's supposed to be how she gets walking again.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 20, 2011)

Petes never jokes

he's serious business all day e'ry day


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 20, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I was kidding
> 
> maybe the  face wouldve been better.
> 
> I really dont think theres anything wrong with the picture. She must have one hell of a physical therapist though, since that's supposed to be how she gets walking again.



So was I


----------



## Penance (Jul 20, 2011)

There were robot Robins...


----------



## Glued (Jul 20, 2011)

I wonder if this reboot will mess with Jonah Hex's continuity.


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## The Pink Ninja (Jul 20, 2011)

The reboot is going to mess with everyone's continuity...


----------



## Cromer (Jul 20, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> Ever since Damian, I've wanted an all Robin book. Damian, Dick, Jason(not psycho, just maim happy), and Tim. The four Robins working together. Won't ever happen, but one can hope.


You missed one 


gabzilla said:


> Batwoman looks awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> Bat Family book. That's all I want DC. Why don't you want my money?


I thought there used to be a Batman Family book? I seem to remember coming across one with a Spoiler story.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 20, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> The reboot is going to mess with everyone's continuity...



Yea apparently superheroes showed up 5 years ago? How does that work for batman...at all?


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## Taleran (Jul 20, 2011)

Batman isn't considered a superhero at least when starting out and JLA1 takes place X years in past


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 20, 2011)

Yea the preview takes place 5 years in the past. But yea, makes sense. I figure Batman's going to have a fair amount of "urban legend" years.


----------



## Glued (Jul 20, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> The reboot is going to mess with everyone's continuity...



Its Jonah Hex, he died before Supes, Diana, Bats, Fishboy, Marvin the Martian, Flash and Hal Boring were even born.


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## illmatic (Jul 20, 2011)

Neat.


Batwoman & Batman team up, 

 or just Batman giving some cryptic advice since he was in the neighborhood


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## The Pink Ninja (Jul 20, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I thought there used to be a Batman Family book? I seem to remember coming across one with a Spoiler story.



There was Gotham Knights but that was just Batman+1

I'd like a series focused on the Batkids with Batman as a secondary background character rather than the focus.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 20, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Batwoman & Batman team up,
> 
> or just Batman giving some cryptic advice since he was in the neighborhood



He will be in the Batwoman series a whole lot I'd imagine...


----------



## Taleran (Jul 20, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _6 Pages of Justice League Number #1_


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## The Pink Ninja (Jul 20, 2011)

Goofy...

But since this is five years ago I'm hoping that in those five years was everything and everyone that happened since Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Except the embaressing and stupid stuff anyway and all the stuff that contradicts the other stuff...

?____?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 20, 2011)

Still, pissed off about the JSA


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 20, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Still, pissed off about the JSA



Did they go beyond being on hiatus and simply don't exist any more? That would actually piss me off a bit. I mean, you could do it, but it would just disappoint me a lot.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2011)

Not me!

Also, I think that might be a parademon? Which would make the threat that brings together the league pretty obvious.


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## The Pink Ninja (Jul 20, 2011)

Weellllllll... I think it's possible they will be reconned back in or what have you...

But given the whole theme of the "reboot" seems to be origins and the first Superheroes that seems to be a problem since the original JSA was operating before Supes and Bruce were born.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 20, 2011)

I think it's easy to do the JSA and the good old "they stopped operating in the 50's". I mean, they get drafted, see how well they work together, and come home to form a secret society of superheroes. People like J. Edgar Hoover get pissy at them for doing what they do without government sponsorship or oversight, and eventually frame them in the eyes of the public as a subversive/communist group. This still leaves the Justice League as the first group of "superheroes", as the JSA wasn't looked at in the same light.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2011)

And then they all died of old age and we still cant read their current adventures anyway! Because the 'they're old but not 100 thanks to some bullshit excuse' is dumb.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2011)

Cully Hamner's little Superman drawing in that preview book actually makes the new costume look good.


----------



## Suigetsu (Jul 20, 2011)

I dont care anymore, all the characters that I liked are gone for good


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 20, 2011)

Suigetsu said:


> I dont care anymore, all the characters that I liked are gone for good



Like who?     D:


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## Guy Gardner (Jul 20, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> And then they all died of old age and we still cant read their current adventures anyway! Because the 'they're old but not 100 thanks to some bullshit excuse' is dumb.



Actually... doing a period-piece comic about heroism in the 1950's and 1960's with the JSA would be really cool for filling in what are essentially blank pages for the vast majority of comic books. Have their story play out there, where they have to keep their organization under wraps, avoiding the FBI while fighting Golden and Silver Age villains. Sort of a _New Frontier_ type deal. Maybe they can occasionally crossover with the JLA (thus making it a big deal to see them together) and tell new stories.


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## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2011)

I'd honestly be happier to just be rid of them.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 20, 2011)

Jay Garrick should stay in the flash books. I gotta agree though about the rest.


----------



## Suigetsu (Jul 20, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Like who?     D:



like Linda Danvers? 

I also liked preus, but after joe kelly left, a new writer came and ruined him, then he vanished from the DC U. In a kind of way I am happy, in that way maybe I could arrive some day and fix/save the character?


I also Like king shark and Bueno Excelente.


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 20, 2011)

King Shark's still around...though he will be a different species of shark. He's on Suicide Squad.

I don't think Linda Danvers has been seen since Reign in Hell.


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## Taleran (Jul 20, 2011)

Wait bringing up villains is pointless because most of the covers didn't show them it was all about the Heroes.


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## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2011)

> Maybe they're "caving" to popular demand? Could it be possible that they got more complaints and/or requests to restore her classic look so they responded? Is it caving to give people what they want?



The DC boards really are something else.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 20, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> The DC boards really are something else.



LOL DC boards.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2011)

I know idk what I was thinking 

But really, that made it worth it. Yes, actually, that's exactly what 'caving' is, my friend!


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 21, 2011)

Anyone want to hazard a guess on what the first DCnU big event will be?


----------



## Taleran (Jul 21, 2011)

The second Season of Batman Incorporated.

Actually now that I think about it INC so far has been setting up that Bruce has come back with the knowledge of _something._ What if he saw the Reboot and is preparing armies of Batman to weather that storm.



But really who knows


----------



## Suigetsu (Jul 21, 2011)

I dont like to have king shark as a Villian, will he team up with the waller? the waller is also one of my favorites. Bueno Excelente rocks too.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 21, 2011)

> "The next big wave of books that come through, we'll have [The Marvel Family] a part of it, I guarantee it."



_Next_ big wave. Wow DC is playing this rather crazy.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 22, 2011)

This idea had never crossed my mind till now but *Wonder Woman's pants are or will be retractable*.



> Major news from the panel included Cliff Chiang's announcement that Wonder Woman, in taking "a cue from the competition," will actually have retractable pants. There was a great deal of internet controversy recently regarding the change of the first cover from her having pants in the initial solicitation to briefs in the final version of the cover, and this seems to resolve that situation.
> 
> Read More:



Now those are some nifty sounding pants. 
------------------------------------------------------------


> As for former Flash Wally West, there are apparently no plans right now to include him in Flash, although they didn't rule out his inclusion in other titles. When asked when we'd see him again, DiDio didn't hold out much hope, saying that they wanted to focus on Barry to make it easier for new readers. When the questioner pointed out that they were keeping around all four Robins, he said it was simply a creative decision they made.
> 
> Read More:



Wally never to be seen again



> On Barbara Gordon as Batgirl: DiDio stated the decision to return Barbara Gordon to her position as Batgirl after years spent as Oracle was done because DC wants to return all of its characters to their most accessible versions.
> 
> Read More:



What I thought all along ------- Wheelchair Babs not accessible enough to casual readers



> On Wonder Woman's Compassion: The warrior aspect of Wonder Woman's character has been amped up for marketing purposes for the covers, but she'll still be the caring character she's always been.
> 
> Read More:


I was expecting Xena Warrior princess


----------



## Castiel (Jul 22, 2011)

That's demented

both of the things you posted


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 22, 2011)

Retractable pants.  The bikini must be really uncomfortable when the pants are stuffed in there.

I wonder who they're taking a cue from? Comics for 5 year olds, maybe?


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 22, 2011)

DC just decided to leave out Wally. That's it, DC just lost a reader.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 22, 2011)

These are snippets I've read from people's blogs



> Editor Eddie Berganza has a timeline for the New DC, and character histories will be revealed over time.  The analogy used was that people have history, and when you meet someone, you don’t instantly learn everything about them, but instead learn about them over time.



yay for character histories



> Gail Simone said that the new Batgirl book will focus on Barbara Gordon being a young woman just out of college, and trying to find her way in the world.



De-aged to 22 possibly



> There currently isn’t a plan for the Batman Beyond book,


anyone Sad?


----------



## Nightblade (Jul 22, 2011)

so Wally's gone even though he's the most recognizable Flash to none comic book readers(the group they aim to get with this reboot).


----------



## illmatic (Jul 22, 2011)

You would think wally was the most accessible of the FLASh's to casual readers...

--------------------------
DC: “We Don’t Necessarily Want To Be #1″?


> Our goal is to be the best publisher of comics that we can be. I have not been given a goal to make DC No. 1 at all costs. So no, this is not about DC being No. 1. I certainly look at the market share. And I know there’s a lot of internet chatter about the market share in the direct market, but that does not represent the complete business.We do our own analysis of the bookstore market, and we go through all the Bookscan data and build our own internal report. We also have an internal report where we combine the bookstore sales of graphic novels with the comic store sales of graphic novels and the sales of periodicals. There are multiple platforms and opportunities that we internally measure our success by.
> 
> We certainly are aware of market share, but that is not our primary goal. But market share is not the only way we look at our success internally.
> 
> Read More -


SVP of sales Bob Wayne


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 22, 2011)

What I don't get is that DC probably thinks Barb is the more accessible Batgirl because she was in the Bruce Timm Universe. Why doesn't that logic apply to Wally? I mean, honestly, how many of DC's readers were even old enough to buy the comic Barry Allen died in? DC, if you want to make Barry Allen the Flash again for some stupid reason, fine. I'll get over it. But none of you at DC could think of a single thing to do with Wally?

Edit: lol, DC, Don't you realize that Marvel is #1 in sales because they can make a good movie about more then one of their heroes?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 22, 2011)

Retractable pants?  Um, okay.  

They should bring back the spin transformations and give her gear for every occasion.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 22, 2011)

The success of the movies don't necessarily impact sales of the comics


----------



## Castiel (Jul 22, 2011)

they did bring back the spin transformation a few years back


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> Retractable pants?  Um, okay.
> 
> They should bring back the spin transformations and give her gear for every occasion.



He was joking


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 22, 2011)

illmatic said:


> The success of the movies don't necessarily impact sales of the comics



I'd day so. When someone watches a good Hulk movie, some people will want to buy a Hulk comic book. When people watch a good Batman movie some people will want to but a Batman comic. When people watch a shitty Jonah Hex movie no one will want to buy a Jonah Hex comic.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> What I don't get is that DC probably thinks Barb is the more accessible Batgirl because she was in the Bruce Timm Universe. Why doesn't that logic apply to Wally? I mean, honestly, how many of DC's readers were even old enough to buy the comic Barry Allen died in? DC, if you want to make Barry Allen the Flash again for some stupid reason, fine. I'll get over it. But none of you at DC could think of a single thing to do with Wally?



People might know the name wally from JL/JLU, maybe even that he has red hair. But the rest? Not really. Wally in the show was really different from Wally now. And in the show he also had Barry's job as a police scientist... 

Recognition isn't the same as accessible, and Barry's the more accessible one. IDK what they'll do with Wally though. They really managed to write themselves into a corner a bit.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 22, 2011)

How is Barry more accessible then Wally when DC is wiping all the continuity they want clean?

And yeah, they managed to write themselves into so much of a corner that they just decided to get rid of Wally's status of being a character.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> People might know the name wally from JL/JLU, maybe even that he has red hair. But the rest? Not really. Wally in the show was really different from Wally now. And in the show he also had Barry's job as a police scientist...
> 
> *Recognition isn't the same as accessible*, and Barry's the more accessible one. IDK what they'll do with Wally though. They really managed to write themselves into a corner a bit.



i was getting those 2 mixed up. 

I suppose Barry of now is a blank canvas compared to Wally

--------------------------------------------------


 at Lois’ new boyfriend, a co-worker at The Daily Planet named Jonathan Carroll.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

Lian harper is gone and Dido ordered her death in the first place

Wally West is gone and Dido says Barry is his fave flash

Steph, who he had killed in the first place, is apprently a second rate Batgirl according to Dido even though her trade paperbacks are some of the best selling comics of the last two years getting to #2 on the NYT bestseller list

Steph is also officially never Robin in continuity, again Dido saying he never thought she was one in the first place

Tons of fan faves (Most every B and C lister you can name) are benched and hey, they're also mostly non-silver age characters.

While the intent maybe a business plan to revive DC, looking at the line-up I can't see any comics than will draw in new readers long term and plenty of things that will offend and drive away current readers. Every change just seems to be Dido changing things to how he, personally would like them rather than what the existing fandom or new readers want. Presumably there are a couple of people in the office egging him on.

*I'm writing down my prediction now: DC will have stopped regular publishing in five years from now.* Maybe there will be, say, six lines a month, and maybe the new company who buys the rights will occasionally do something (Shit) with them but DC as we have know it for the past seventy years will be dead.

Seriously, what line of comics being released in the fall are for girls? Maybe Batgirl? Even series that have a lot of female fans look like they will be off putting, like the rediculously covered Teen Titans and Superboy. Girls are why Batgirl got to #2 and why manga frequently sells like hotcakes. They post about it, squee, write fanfics, keep alive and active and healthy fandom and all this brings in new readers. Hell, it was Gabzilla squeeing about Batgirl that got me back into comics. And I think they're also much more likely to buy that simply pirate everything.

That's a huge market there and it's going untapped.

Babs is being de-aged so I assume the rest of the Batkids, bar Damian, will be too. Tim and Steph will be mid-teens and there will be a much smaller gaps between them and Damian and them and Dick. This is fucking weak because Tim and Steph will de-facto lose character developement due to being so obviously not the people they are now. It also means that since Dick will now only be about five eyars older than Tim he quit being Robin really really early.

So unsuprisngly, attempt to straighted continuity only screw them up : /

Seriously, everything was making sense again. Supergirl, Powergirl and the rest were back as they were supposed to be and lots of the stupidly killed characters had been revived. What should have been the start of a new golden age is now a heap of shit.

Is there anyone here who feels they are getting a net gain from the re-boot?

Appart from Batwoman finally arriving?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 22, 2011)

illmatic said:


> i was getting those 2 mixed up.
> 
> I suppose Barry of now is a blank canvas compared to Wally
> 
> ...



So they broke up the marriage, and then found it necessary to rub it in our faces in the very first issue. What a waste of panels.


EDIT: Lian Harper is gone? Damn. I was hoping Roy not missing an arm meant she was back.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

Not every damn hero needs to marry and/or have kids but it'd be a nice to have a wide spread of characters.

Superman has been dating Lois Lane since 1940. Having them as man and wife has potential. Otherwise for new readers and even for me she just seems like she's a rump character, something that only exists from ye olde days and has no modern relevance to the series.


----------



## Rod (Jul 22, 2011)

Knew they wouldn't be able to handle the two at same time, sorta indirectly death of Wally that I was predicting. :s


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 22, 2011)

jesus DC...it's like your trying to pisspeople off now.



illmatic said:


> i was getting those 2 mixed up.
> 
> I suppose Barry of now is a blank canvas compared to Wally
> 
> ...



He looks like a douchebag.


----------



## Whimsy (Jul 22, 2011)

Maybe Supes'll eventually pull her like

I think her boyf is a douche for a reason


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

BQM's Batgirl was the most accessible series in the whole DCU. Steph was just an "Average girl", not a super-genius like Babs. Even better, it's team-up were so natural and good it made you intrested in those other characters.

Ultimate footshooting


----------



## Rod (Jul 22, 2011)

Tho, that scene reminds me Peter and Mary.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> So they broke up the marriage, and then found it necessary to rub it in our faces in the very first issue. What a waste of panels.





i expect better from you berg! 


Honestly when was the last time someone did something interesting with their marriage? At least with spider-man you can say JMS did a lot with peter and mj together. DC keeps writing Superman as this extremely middle-aged dude too, I cant say a younger version is unappealing. 

But even if you dont like it... DC is not wasting panels by establishing the new status quo in the comic.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

I really want to know what was going through their heads, I really do

"So what was the most hated comic of the last ten years?"

"One More Day"

"Yeah, lets do that!"

It's not as bad but still, did they learn nothing?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I really want to know what was going through their heads, I really do
> 
> "So what was the most hated comic of the last ten years?"
> 
> ...



Deal with the devil aside OMD was the right thing to do for spider-man comics. People hated it sure, but long term its a good thing.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 22, 2011)

I feel sorry for the next Editor-In-Chief to succeed DiDio.


----------



## Glued (Jul 22, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I really want to know what was going through their heads, I really do
> 
> "So what was the most hated comic of the last ten years?"
> 
> ...



On the bright side it gives superman and lois the chance to fall in love all over again. Like a fairy tale.
I always wonder what a movie by Disney on Superman and Lois would have been like.


As long as they keep Amazons out of it.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

They'll have that job for about ten mins before DC goes out of business.

But it's fairly obvious how to make the fanbase love you 

You know reading older comics, even from just 2003, make me worried about benched characters since I see a whole bunch of people who I either don't recognise or haven't seen for ages.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

Well you guys can bitch all you want about stupid little continuity changes, but I'm looking forward to a fair amount of the new books now. 

a lot of good looking art here btw: 

and also some art that sucks from JLI and Green Arrow was included


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i expect better from you berg!
> 
> 
> Honestly when was the last time someone did something interesting with their marriage? At least with spider-man you can say JMS did a lot with peter and mj together. DC keeps writing Superman as this extremely middle-aged dude too, I cant say a younger version is unappealing.
> ...



Its not that they split Clark and Lois up. I'm cool with that. I didn't like or dislike the marriage. It was just sort of there.

I'm just not liking that teaser page at all. Its a retarded way of showing that Clark and Lois aren't together. If they're going with something new, go with something new. Why have Clark pine for Lois? Why the need to chump Clark to a douchebag boyfreind? Its a shitty rehash of the Clark-Lois-someone romance triangle.

They could have revealed this through an offhand comment somewhere. But they wasted 2 pages with crap. Its just so needless.


Also, I will have my terrible opinions and revel in them. 

But yeah, still looking forward to a good chunk of the new books, regardless.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 22, 2011)

Is not just the "girl books" that are missing (DC doesn't care about us, so) are there any fun books left other than Tiny Titans? I love grimdark Batman, but come on.



Petes12 said:


> Deal with the devil aside OMD was the right thing to do for spider-man comics. People hated it sure, but long term its a good thing.



Is it? I haven't touched a Spider-man comic since OMD. And I'm not the only one.



Petes12 said:


> i expect better from you berg!
> 
> 
> Honestly when was the last time someone did something interesting with their marriage? At least with spider-man you can say JMS did a lot with peter and mj together. DC keeps writing Superman as this extremely middle-aged dude too, I cant say a younger version is unappealing.
> ...



They can break them up, but this is a shoddy way to do it.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm addressing both of you here but the way I see it is it's not just about 'breaking up the marriage'. That's one small part of 'we need to make superman younger'. Doesn't mean Lois Lane shouldn't still be his love interest. 

And seriously, 'the love triangle we've all seen before' argument? The one that was last seen in, what, the 1980s? Cmon now. Like why don't you just argue that we've seen Batman hit the joker a thousand times so it shouldn't happen anymore because we can always just read those stories from before we were born. 

And no I'm never going to understand people who stopped reading with OMD. JMS's run wasn't even good but aside from that, I for one don't cheat myself out of reading a good current story because I didn't like a story from 3 years ago.


----------



## Whimsy (Jul 22, 2011)

Yeah giving up spidey books because of OMD seems a tad bullheaded


----------



## Slice (Jul 22, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Is it? I haven't touched a Spider-man comic since OMD. And I'm not the only one.



OMD - Horrible
Storys following OMD - decent
Storys following those - good
Storys leading to the gauntlet and following it - really good to excellent

Peter and MJ will be together again in less than 10 years i guess, so i learned to deal with it.


Same thing applys to Clark / Lois it is only a matter of time before the douche boyfriend is long forgotten.

I am curious how much they de-ages Clark (and Bruce) i always saw them as the big ideal all the younger powered (non powered) teenagers wanted to become. This is especially true in the Bat family since there (right now) are basically three generations working together.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Like why don't you just argue that we've seen Batman hit the joker a thousand times so it shouldn't happen anymore because we can always just read those stories from before we were born.



I do actually.

This is why everyone like Dick as Batman so much, it brought something new to the the table that most Batman writers struggle to find.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

And that's always good for a change of pace but I wouldn't want Dick to be Batman forever and permanently replace Bruce.

And I see it as  a big difference from OMD too. This is essentially a rebooted Superman, basically Superman from the start all over again. And does anyone REALLY mind that? It's not like Superman had an interesting current status quo, right? I mean, they really, totally, completely failed on the world building front with him. He only has one story that still matters today, Death of.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I'm addressing both of you here but the way I see it is it's not just about 'breaking up the marriage'. That's one small part of 'we need to make superman younger'. Doesn't mean Lois Lane shouldn't still be his love interest.
> 
> And seriously, 'the love triangle we've all seen before' argument? The one that was last seen in, what, the 1980s? Cmon now. Like why don't you just argue that we've seen Batman hit the joker a thousand times so it shouldn't happen anymore because we can always just read those stories from before we were born.
> 
> And no I'm never going to understand people who stopped reading with OMD. JMS's run wasn't even good but aside from that, I for one don't cheat myself out of reading a good current story because I didn't like a story from 3 years ago.



You misunderstood me. I have no problems with exploring Lois and Clark as single people. Or seeing them with other people. I have a problem with the way they are doing it. "Oh poor Clark pining over Lois who is dating a douche". Yeah, cry me a river. I do not care.

Is not that I gave up on Spider-man just because of OMD. I simply don't like what Peter Parker has become. I enjoyed Spider-Man because he was fun, I have no interest in reading about a douche.



Whimsy said:


> Yeah giving up spidey books because of OMD seems a tad bullheaded



To each their own. I'm not wasting my money in things I don't care about.



Slice said:


> OMD - Horrible
> Storys following OMD - decent
> Storys following those - good
> Storys leading to the gauntlet and following it - really good to excellent
> ...



Why do people automatically assume I don't read Spider-man post OMD because Peter and Mary Jane are not together? I don't care for Peter Parker, that's why I don't read stories about him.

Of course Lois and Clark will get back together. That's a no brainer. That doesn't mean I'm interested in watching this mess.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> And that's always good for a change of pace but I wouldn't want Dick to be Batman forever and permanently replace Bruce.
> 
> And I see it as  a big difference from OMD too. This is essentially a rebooted Superman, basically Superman from the start all over again. And does anyone REALLY mind that? It's not like Superman had an interesting current status quo, right? I mean, they really, totally, completely failed on the world building front with him. He only has one story that still matters today, Death of.



I'm always in favour of the new and intresting but there are the following issues

1) Ending things before their time

2) Returning to the dull status quo rather than segueing from one change to another

3) Changing not because of story or character but for filthy lucre (Which almost never work anyway)

4) Having 52 very similar series rather than a spectrum of 52 series

5) Reversing or undoing good character developement and character history. One thing people talk about with Young Justice is how Batman seems much nicer than usual, nicer even than Superman. But this is a Batman who hasn't lost Jason or Barbara or Steph. He hasn't had his back broken by Bane or had his secret plans to defeat the Justice League stolen and used on them or has his mindwiped by Zatana. He's a different guy to the dark and brooding king of man-pain we know and love.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

I understood "how they're doing it" to mean how they're getting rid of the marriage, not how they're writing the 2 of them in the new book. That's totally different!

Though I don't really get what makes Spider-man a douche now.


----------



## Thor (Jul 22, 2011)

Since there are now 3 generations of the Bat family with Batman de-aged maybe he trained Dick Grayson as a teenage Batman.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 22, 2011)

cause OMD sucked

the stories were boring and up until the Gauntlet nothing was worthwile.

And even now with a few solid issues it's mediocre at best.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

Not sure Batman is de-aged. Even if Dick was in his late twenties Bruce could still reasonably be over a decade older than him and not be feeling the ill effects of age.

It's the Dick-to-Tim-to-Damian gap that is problematic

I don't care about their actual ages but sometimes it gets a bit problamatic.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

It's not that big a deal but yeah batman will have had to have been operating for like 10 years or so, for it to work.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 22, 2011)

yeah that wont be such a problem

it looks like the Batman stuff is the least they've really tinkered and fooled around with.  At least compared to everyone else.


----------



## Glued (Jul 22, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Is not just the "girl books" that are missing (DC doesn't care about us, so) *are there any fun books left other than Tiny Titans?* I love grimdark Batman, but come on.
> .



I've always found anything with Booster Gold to be pretty awesome.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I've always found anything with Booster Gold to be pretty awesome.



But will they let that book with funny? Even with Booster there, this new universe seems to be a tad dark.

And red.


----------



## Glued (Jul 22, 2011)

Booster Gold, grim and dark, I seriously doubt that. Its Booster Gold.

Besides there will be a Static book coming out and Tony Bedard will be working on Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes).


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

Consider the writer of that JLI book. It'll be bland and any jokes will fall flat.

I'm sure Gail Simone will try to keep the new batgirl book's tone relatively light. I doubt any of the sidekick books will be GRIMDARK, even Teen Titans as awful as it looks.


----------



## Glued (Jul 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> *Consider the writer of that JLI book. It'll be bland and any jokes will fall flat.*I'm sure Gail Simone will try to keep the new batgirl book's tone relatively light. I doubt any of the sidekick books will be GRIMDARK, even Teen Titans as awful as it looks.



You mean Dan Jurgens, the man who created Booster Gold.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

And writer of the current ongoing which is bland, yep. I could be wrong. We'll find out in September. But that's a title I've got no interest in.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Consider the writer of that JLI book. It'll be bland and any jokes will fall flat.
> 
> I'm sure Gail Simone will try to keep the new batgirl book's tone relatively light. I doubt any of the sidekick books will be GRIMDARK, even Teen Titans as awful as it looks.



I dunno, didn't one of the preview pages have the bad guy shoving a hose down a victim's throat?



Ben Grimm said:


> Booster Gold, grim and dark, I seriously doubt that. Its Booster Gold.
> 
> Besides there will be a Static book coming out and Tony Bedard will be working on Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes).



Those two are my last hope


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 22, 2011)

I'd say if anything's going to be grim dark it's going to be Stormwatch to be honest, I mean sure not everything is going to be sunshine and daisies for the other books, but I seriously don't expect them to that dark.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I dunno, didn't one of the preview pages have the bad guy shoving a hose down a victim's throat?


Heh, batgirl? wouldnt surprise me, it is Simone. She can be a little dark. Doesn't mean it won't be 'fun' though, she usually puts a good amount of humor and so on in her books.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

Speaking of continuity snarls:



> President Barack Obama, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen officially brought the era of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” to a close today with the formal certification of its repeal.



That origin story is still good for five years or so but still...


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

Yeah you mean Batwoman right? That occurred to me too. Stupid government overturning dont ask dont tell, they ruined a good origin!


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

On the bright side Flemmish terrorists still shot her mum and sister in the head so at least that's still good.

On the new tomorrow: Belgium breaks up"


----------



## illmatic (Jul 22, 2011)

When Batwoman becomes a mainstream hit of Catwoman level the I would worry about creative ways to retell her orgin.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

because we were both actually worried


----------



## SageMaster (Jul 23, 2011)

illmatic said:


> The success of the movies don't necessarily impact sales of the comics



It does.

It's natural more people will be interested in a character after watching a good movie.

Happened to me.


----------



## tari101190 (Jul 23, 2011)

If I was in charge of DC I think I would have instead done a 'timeskip revamp' like this If I HAD to do a revamp/reboot:


*Spoiler*: __ 




*10 Years Later*
*Justice Society*
Clark Kent is Superman
Bruce Wayne Is Batman
Dianna Prince is Wonder Woman
Barry Allen is Flash
Hal Jordan is Green Lantern
Guy Gardner is Green Lantern
John Stewart is Green Lantern
Orin is Aquaman
Mera is Aquawoman
J’onn J’onzz is Martian Manhunter
Oliver Queen is Green Arrow
Dinah Lance is Black Canary

*Justice League International*
Kara Zor El is Superwoman
Dick Grayson is Nightwing
Donna Troy is Troia 
Wally West is Scarlet Speedster
Kyle Rayner is Green Lantern
Jennifer Hayden is Jade
Garth is Tempest
Roy Harper is Arsenal

*Justice League of America*
Connor Kent is Superman
Tim Drake Is Batman
Cassie Sandsmark is Wonder Woman
Bart Allen is Flash
Jackson Hyde is Aquaman
Lorena Marquez is Aquawoman
M’gann M’orzz is Martian Manhunter
Conner Hawke is Green Arrow
Mia Dearden is Arrowette

*Young Justice*
Jonathan Harper is Superboy _(Mon El + Jamie Harper's Son)_
Damian Wayne is Red Robin
Sarah Grayson is Robin _(Dick Grayson + Barbra Gordon's Daughter)_
Alexander Prince is Wonder Boy _(Hercules + Hippolyta's Son)_
Iris West is Impulse 
Jai West is Accel
Cerdian is Aqualad 
Lian Harper is Speedy
Sin Lance is Black Canary

*15 Years Later*
Damian Wayne is Batman
Project “Superman Secundus” is initiated
Project “Batman Beyond” is initiated
Clark Kent II is born
Terry McGinnis is born


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 23, 2011)

The "Re-Blog if you don't like the Reboot" on Tumblr is up to 2.3 million reblogs now



illmatic said:


> When Batwoman becomes a mainstream hit of Catwoman level the I would worry about creative ways to retell her orgin.



That doesn't makse sense on any level.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 23, 2011)

I see, Well that 'the' should be a "then" 

EDIT: 2.3 mill unhappy women can't be a good thing


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 23, 2011)

Even assuming only 1/10 in a unique person that's still a greater number than the people who are supposed to constitute the regular buyers of DC's stuff.


----------



## Glued (Jul 23, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> If I was in charge of DC I think I would have instead done a 'timeskip revamp' like this If I HAD to do a revamp/reboot:
> 
> 
> *Young Justice*
> ...



You know about Cerdian, mad respect from Aquaman fan. reps


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 23, 2011)

who's cerdian?

ryan choi is back as the atom apparently.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 23, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> *who's cerdian*?
> 
> ryan choi is back as the atom apparently.



Aqualad/Tempest and Dolphin's son


----------



## Bender (Jul 23, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Lian harper is gone and Dido ordered her death in the first place
> 
> Wally West is gone and Dido says Barry is his fave flash





			
				Bergelmir said:
			
		

> So they broke up the marriage, and then found it necessary to rub it in our faces in the very first issue. What a waste of panels.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Lian Harper is gone? Damn. I was hoping Roy not missing an arm meant she was back.



Lian was what made Roy a happy and appealing man to the ladies. So what now we're saying "fuck that shit"? 

Nice. Real fucking nice.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 23, 2011)

fuck kids


----------



## Parallax (Jul 23, 2011)

Yeah Petes doesn't wanna read about people his age, fuck that


----------



## Bender (Jul 23, 2011)

[Petes12 said:
			
		

> Fuck kids



You used to be a kid. 

Bet you were just as much of a pain in the ass. 





Petes12 said:


> Honestly when was the last time someone did something interesting with their marriage? At least with spider-man you can say JMS did a lot with peter and mj together.



Plenty of fictional characters.

Scott Free and Big Barda 

Archie comics Sonic the hedgehog Antoine and Bunnie

The Incredibles Bob and Helen

POTC At Worlds End Will and Elizabeth

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfkIlvtybWg[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 23, 2011)

but not superman's. just doesn't seem like a loss at all!


----------



## Nightblade (Jul 23, 2011)

lol only 20 people out of 500 went to sdcc to protest the reboot. 

the other 480 have switched to Marvel.


----------



## Thor (Jul 23, 2011)

What happens to Blaqualad?


----------



## Taleran (Jul 24, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> but not superman's. just doesn't seem like a loss at all!



Especially considering Superman and Lois have barely been in the same comics for well over two years.


----------



## Glued (Jul 24, 2011)

Thor said:


> What happens to Blaqualad?



Well there have been some rumors going around that their going to retcon the death of Aquaman's son. With Black Manta raising him to battle Aquaman. For the sake of symbolism Kaldur will team up with Aquaman to battle Black Manta and Aquaman's son.

I'm personally hoping that if they're using Aquaman's son, that they use Koryak, not Arthur Junior.

I can picture it in my head now.

"Ladies and Gentlemen get ready biggest brawl on the beach this side of the Bermuda Triangle. In this corner will be the King of the Seas himself, Aquaman. In the other corner, the black Darth Vader with gills, Black Manta. For added bonus, Aquaman will be teaming up with Black Manta's son, KALDUR!!! And Black Manta will be teaming up with Aquaman's son, ARTHUR JUNIOR!!! Its double betrayal, and double the trouble. It'll be father vs son and son vs father. Coming SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY!!!"


----------



## Rod (Jul 24, 2011)

It's ironic, usually when love relationships become the central topics in lots of those stories first thing a majority mention is that... Well, it's not really important, care-o-meter for that, not here for this, not about it etc... However, when a serious change is made thars alot of hilarious argumentation around.

The points defended often are comedy gold should I add.


----------



## Glued (Jul 24, 2011)

Rod said:


> It's ironic, usually when love relationships become the central topics in lots of those stories first thing a majority mention is that... Well, it's not really important, care-o-meter for that, not here for this, not about it etc... However, when a serious change is made thars alot of hilarious argumentation around.
> 
> The points defended often are comedy gold should I add.



Well, this will probably only come up when Black Manta are moved back into Aquaman's storyline.

From the previews it seem Geoff Johns is going to Aquaman battle it out with  evil mutant frog people abominations in some deep part of the sea. I'm hoping for some sort of evil love craftian c'thulhu god to be big boss of the arc.

Geoff Johns, I don't know if I can trust him.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 25, 2011)

I have a feeling this book will be HILARIOUS


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 25, 2011)

"Brutality has a new name" Oh god...


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 25, 2011)

least he looks cool for once

I dont remember anyone complaining when Baker said he was just gonna give him a bunch of stuff to hit with a mace in wednesday comics either but whatever.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 25, 2011)

That series was amazing because of it too.

It was off the walls and so much fun.




That title for next page cracks me up every single time.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Well, this will probably only come up when Black Manta are moved back into Aquaman's storyline.
> 
> From the previews it seem Geoff Johns is going to Aquaman battle it out with  evil mutant frog people abominations in some deep part of the sea. I'm hoping for some sort of evil love craftian c'thulhu god to be big boss of the arc.
> 
> Geoff Johns, I don't know if I can trust him.



I think Johns is a good choice for this. If there is anything Johns is really good at, it's Mythos building. When he has a lot of room for play, like GL, he does really well. The Flash has a great mythology, but I'd argue that it's a rather constricted space and Johns likely didn't have the room to maneuver for what he generally does.

Aquaman can have whole new civilizations and such around him, and I don't think most fans would bat an eye as to why we haven't seen them before. I think Johns is in his comfort zone here.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 25, 2011)

My favorite Johns Hawkman scene was in the intro to Black Reign, Hawkman just hacks off a mad scientist's arm during the whole 'you can't stop me now' scene and then walks into his own birthday party covered in blood and iirc throws the bloody axe on the cake.

I laughed.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 25, 2011)

that sounds outstanding, how good was that series as a whole?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 25, 2011)

As someone who's never really been into hawkman (wed. comics was good though), the idea of focusing on his brutality definitely appeals to me.

For a dude who flys around fucking shit up with a mace, I feel like its a good fit.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 25, 2011)

Yeah honestly, I dont have much faith in the creative team to do anything special based on their names, but they're saying all the right things plot-wise for me. Especially the taking inspiration from indiana jones.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 25, 2011)

Yea I was thinking that. When I think of Hawkman I think how could you NOT take inspiration from indy. 

If the story reads like Indy starring a dude who flys around and fucks shit up with a mace im in.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 25, 2011)

> that sounds outstanding, how good was that series as a whole?


It was in Johns' JSA run, the arc where Black Adam takes over Khandaq

but yes it is the best scene Hawkman was written by Johns and one of the best arc intros


----------



## Bushido Style (Jul 25, 2011)

The art is great on a lot of these books. I don't think I've seen any I don't like. I've already picked out eight books to buy but some of these other titles are tempting. It's going to be a bitch trying to balance out which books to get get from  Marvel and DC come September.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 26, 2011)

Man this Daredevil review made me laugh.

Don't worry I have posted it in the right place.



> While it probably wasn't intended to be a "hey Dan, here's how you fucking do it", you can't help but read Daredevil #1 and see the comic as a general up yours to the Distinguished Competition. Think about it: saddled with a solid period of comics that were both terribly received AND actually terrible to boot, Mark Waid and Marcos Martin--incidentally, two creators whose historical treatment by DC editorial is remarkably wearisome even by today's hideous, comics-killing standard--have teamed up with Paolo Rivera and delivered the best looking super-hero comic of recent memory while still aggressively embracing all the horrible stories that came before. It's still a New Number One stunt, and Marvel's still the same Gene Colan killing scumfucks they were two weeks prior, but hey: at least some middle fingers were thrown up. And come September, DC's going to publish 52 attempts at being what Daredevil #1 is right fucking now: how you think that's going to work out?


----------



## Parallax (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah it's really not the best looking comic book in recent memory


----------



## Parallax (Jul 26, 2011)

And I thought DD #1 was solid but not amazing

art sure was neat though


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

It was a good first issue and naturally I dont expect all the new 52 number 1s to be nearly that good, but I'm sure there will be a few standouts that will be just as good. 

And yeah... it was a good looking book with some creative art but I can think of some other recent number 1s from Marvel that all looked just as good.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 26, 2011)

Yea, it was good, but not really "OH SNAP DC YOU JUST GOT SHIT ON!" good. Writing was solid, art brought it to above average.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 26, 2011)

I think people are trying to find anything to make fun of DC at this point

just for the sake of hatin


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

the writing was good too, much better than waid's spider-man honestly.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah I agree

but honestly I've never really cared for Waid short of a few select works


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 26, 2011)

Waid's spider-man was pretty bad. Im pretty sure Kingdom Come, Flash, and Birthright are the only things of his I've liked. Oh and Impulse.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 26, 2011)

You're a bart fan of course you liked Impulse


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Waid's spider-man was pretty bad. Im pretty sure Kingdom Come, Flash, and Birthright are the only things of his I've liked. Oh and Impulse.



52?


----------



## Bender (Jul 26, 2011)

Parallax said:


> I think people are trying to find anything to make fun of DC at this point
> 
> just for the sake of hatin



Not really. Well for me at least. honestly, I think what they've done to Harley Quinn is horrible. Not to mention a good load of the characters designs are complete jokes.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 26, 2011)

Parallax said:


> You're a bart fan of course you liked Impulse



I'm a bart fan specifically because of Impulse 

And yea 52 was good too, but I don't know what was waid and what was Morrison/Johns/Rucka.



Bender said:


> Not really. Well for me at least. honestly, I think what they've done to Harley Quinn is horrible. Not to mention a good load of the characters designs are complete jokes.



There's a lot to hate on, but most of what can be hated on has already been hated on to the point where further hating is just hating to the hate choir.

At this point, I feel like some people are just going out of their way to find NEW things to hate on.


----------



## Bender (Jul 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> There's a lot to hate on, but most of what can be hated on has already been hated on to the point where further hating is just hating to the hate choir.



lol 

Overthinking it a bit don't cha think? 


People are repeatedly hating it because it's hard to comprehend that they're actually going through with such an action. It's preposterous considering all the progress they've made. Even my father is dumbfounded by this. 

I mean Dan Didio removing Wally West because Barry Allen is his favorite Flash? I'm sorry but Wally is is also instrumental to the Flash family.  Also there's the surprising revelation that Dan Didio was responsible for Lian being killed. Really, without Lian there's no notable trait about him other then he's an archer, and a member of the Green Arrow family. No now he's just like Nightwing, a chick magnet, and prefers to play solo. Of all the Titans his being a father was what made him different from the rest of them. Not to mention admirable that he's balancing fatherhood alongside being a hero.




> At this point, I feel like some people are just going out of their way to find NEW things to hate on.



That's ridiculous.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

dont be silly... hes a drug addict that makes him special! 

that you're making the relaunch about barry still being flash does seem like desperation to find something to not like, or more accurately to find a reason to explain you not liking it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 26, 2011)

Yea see Bender you don't need to tell me any of that. Its all been said to death. Yes it sucks, but everyone continuously whining about it does nothing.

At this point our choices are either drop comics in hopes that they'll go back to previous continuity (which I think is very doubtful) or just try to be optimistic about some of the few good things about this relaunch.

DC is going to have to put up or shut up, and as a fan of DC comics I hope its great. If not...well there's always marvel and indies.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

indeed we all know there's a few bad things about it (secret six ). i still say theres overall more books i want to read in the relaunch than i do now.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, it was good, but not really "OH SNAP DC YOU JUST GOT SHIT ON!" good. Writing was solid, art brought it to above average.



Using only 'above average' to describe Marcos Martin is as wrong as can be.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 26, 2011)

Yea, above average is a little weak.

I'll say: Awesome art + eh its alright writing = Very good (not ZOMGAMAZING) issue.


----------



## Bender (Jul 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea see Bender you don't need to tell me any of that. Its all been said to death. Yes it sucks, but everyone continuously whining about it does nothing.
> 
> At this point our choices are either drop comics in hopes that they'll go back to previous continuity (which I think is very doubtful) or just try to be optimistic about some of the few good things about this relaunch.



At this point the only thing I'm doing is humoring Dccomics and being the angry little critic. Something that has become a chore for me. The only reason I'm even following DC news is till the release of the rebooted titles so I can laugh at how hard the sales failed similar to the Green Lantern film.



			
				petes12 said:
			
		

> dont be silly... hes a drug addict that makes him special!
> 
> that you're making the relaunch about barry still being flash does seem like desperation to find something to not like, or more accurately to find a reason to explain you not liking it.



Ridiculous.

There's plenty of things that make the DC reboot a joke for me. Trousering up every chick to appeal to feminist (increase their readers) under the impression it'll make them slutty, making all "books" dark and whoring the hell out of the color red for new books. I.E. Nightwing's new shade of red instead of blue. Also there's Deathstroke red eyes. Babs going back to being Batgirl. Too much to list about what infuriates me about the reboot.


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## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Using only 'above average' to describe Marcos Martin is as wrong as can be.



The main story was drawn by Rivera.

edit: bender they didnt ever actually have a pants rule it was just a rumor. as supergirl and starfire and harley quinn definitively proved.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 26, 2011)

Bender it sounds like you're putting in a lot of time simply to hate on something. Why not spend that time looking for new comics to read since you seem to have completely lost faith in DC?

Not trying to be a dick, but there comes a point where hating just seems like a waste of time.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 26, 2011)

Wow I didn't even realize they blend together and both are amazing that I didn't notice a difference.


----------



## Bender (Jul 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> edit: bender they didnt ever actually have a pants rule it was just a rumor. as supergirl and starfire and harley quinn definitively proved.



I'm aware of that now but Dinah's new costume is simply ridiculous and no longer makes her look like the badass babe under Gail Simone's penmanship.  Starfire of course it's obvious they would tarnish her. But Harley Quinn look like a total tramp which goes against her original hyperactive, naive. psychotic Joker fangirl self. No, instead it's focusing on her being psychotic rather than being apart of Joker's crew.


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## Bender (Jul 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Bender it sounds like you're putting in a lot of time simply to hate on something. Why not spend that time looking for new comics to read since you seem to have completely lost faith in DC?



I'm reading back issues of Dccomics. In fact that's all I'm doing until I see major improvements.



> Not trying to be a dick, but there comes a point where hating just seems like a waste of time.



I kind of look at it this way: I hate it because I have a deep love for Dccomics.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Wow I didn't even realize they blend together and both are amazing that I didn't notice a difference.



Really? I thought, while obviously there was a lot of similarities, it was pretty noticeable when it shifted to Marcos' art in the backup. Honestly I preferred Rivera's stuff. 





Bender said:


> I'm aware of that now but Dinah's new costume is simply ridiculous and no longer makes her look like the badass babe under Gail Simone's penmanship.  Starfire of course it's obvious they would tarnish her. But Harley Quinn look like a total tramp which goes against her original hyperactive, naive. psychotic Joker fangirl self. No, instead it's focusing on her being psychotic rather than being apart of Joker's crew.



I think some things were just lost in translation from the original design for Black Canary. 

I mean,  the ninja stars on the gloves are pretty dumb but still, stuff like the boots look a lot better there. 

Tarnish Starfire? Like she ever was anything different...?


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## MrChubz (Jul 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> dont be silly... hes a drug addict that makes him special!
> 
> that you're making the relaunch about barry still being flash does seem like desperation to find something to not like, or more accurately to find a reason to explain you not liking it.



No, Wally getting erased from continuity is a pretty god reason to hate this reboot. Hell, I was incredibly optimistic about this thing before that.


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## Guy Gardner (Jul 26, 2011)

I feel like I do so much defending of Didio that he should start paying me for retainer. Anyway, to play Did-I mean, Devil's Advocate (Though I'm sure they are probably interchangeable with some people)...



Bender said:


> People are repeatedly hating it because it's hard to comprehend that they're actually going through with such an action. It's preposterous considering all the progress they've made. Even my father is dumbfounded by this.



What progress, though? Lower sales? Superman, Flash and Wonder Woman are at low points, and that's 3 _big_ titles. The problem is that all progress isn't good, and that their universe needs a huge injection of ideas and energy that is impossible to do without doing something drastic.



> I mean Dan Didio removing Wally West because Barry Allen is his favorite Flash? I'm sorry but Wally is is also instrumental to the Flash family.



My problem with the Flash family isn't that Barry's coming back. In all honesty, ever since starting comics with Infinite Crisis, Wally and his run as Flash has been a mess. They had a poor start with Bart, and Wally's return didn't help. I was hoping that having super-powered kids would be a cool thing... but in all honesty, it hasn't helped. They just haven't turned out particularly interesting, and I don't think anyone has really successfully written them well.

So I understand why they are retiring Wally: In all honesty, he comes off as older than Barry. Both are married, but one has two kids in elementary school. One actually has a decent reason to not be on the active list. Wally settling down (instead of dying) would be something that works well, as at least it gives him a happy ending. Barry gets to run around and be a superhero, while Wally enjoys his family and occasionally pitches in. In a sense, he's actually passed Barry by being so damn successful.

The only problem is that I don't think we are going to see a big "final moment" from Wally. I think he deserves to have a glory moment before he settles down. If I were writing Flashpoint, I'd have Barry restore the timeline but not completely defeat Zoom. With all the chips down, Zoom taking out many superheroes, Wally steps up and becomes the Flash that he always thought Barry was. He takes down Zoom... and he realizes that he can't live like this any more. He'll help out when they need it, but he needs to have a chance with his kids before he goes back out on the street.

I'd love for Wally to get the ending that Scott Summers and Peter Parker were supposed to get, but never got: A happy one with a family. I only hope that it sticks, and that we don't see them all impaled on pikes in a couple months.



> Also there's the surprising revelation that Dan Didio was responsible for Lian being killed. Really, without Lian there's no notable trait about him other then he's an archer, and a member of the Green Arrow family. No now he's just like Nightwing, a chick magnet, and prefers to play solo. Of all the Titans his being a father was what made him different from the rest of them. Not to mention admirable that he's balancing fatherhood alongside being a hero.



While I agree that Lian set Roy apart from the vast majority of superheroes, I think that he'll do fine as a hero on his own. He's always been sort of an outrider when it comes to being a hero. I think Young Justice has done a great job in establishing him as someone who is immensely talented, but with the stubbornness to match. I think he can be an interesting character without Lian... Lian just made him really _unique_. Hopefully we will see Lian sometime in the future. Probably not soon, but sometime again.



MrChubz said:


> No, Wally getting erased from continuity is a pretty god reason to hate this reboot. Hell, I was incredibly optimistic about this thing before that.



Considering they didn't rule out his inclusion in other titles, he's obviously not being completely retconned.


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## Bender (Jul 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I think some things were just lost in translation from the original design for Black Canary.



Actually it's all there



It looks the same as I saw in the title. It looks too hi-tech and goes against her original biker chick look which readers adored so much. 




> Tarnish Starfire? Like she ever was anything different...?



What I mean is I find it impossible that they could come up with a design to ruin her.


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## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> No, Wally getting erased from continuity is a pretty god reason to hate this reboot. Hell, I was incredibly optimistic about this thing before that.


no where was it said he got erased...


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## MrChubz (Jul 26, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Considering they didn't rule out his inclusion in other titles, he's obviously not being completely retconned.



They probably just said that so they don't look like idiots when they realize they fucked up and include him in some random book to appease the fans somewhere down the line



Petes12 said:


> no where was it said he got erased...



Why don't you go ahead and point me to the book he's in?


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## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

or maybe because they arent dumb enough to actually erase such a popular character from existence?


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## Guy Gardner (Jul 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Why don't you go ahead and point me to the book he's in?



Strawman. Because you are not in a book doesn't mean you are erased from continuity. They are retiring him, plain and simple. Considering he is one of (if not the) only heroes who really has a family life, I can absolutely understand why he's put that over superheroing. I love the character, but it does make a lot of sense.


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## MrChubz (Jul 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> or maybe because they arent dumb enough to actually erase such a popular character from existence?



Cass would like to have a cup of tea with you.




Guy Gardner said:


> Strawman. Because you are not in a book doesn't mean you are erased from continuity. They are retiring him, plain and simple. Considering he is one of (if not the) only heroes who really has a family life, I can absolutely understand why he's put that over superheroing. I love the character, but it does make a lot of sense.


Where are they establish all of this, Action Comics? Dead Man? Hawk and Dove?


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## Guy Gardner (Jul 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Cass would like to have a cup of tea with you.



Considering they *outright confirmed* that she was still in the universe, she'll be able to have that cup of tea!



> Where are they establish all of this, Action Comics? Dead Man? Hawk and Dove?



From the creator's mouth? Again, where do we get any indications that he's completely gone? Did Didio tell you and just not tell everyone else? Where are the indications that Bart has been the only Kid Flash?

Oh, wait, I forgot: Since it's already been confirmed that the Wolfman era Titans existed, that means that Wally _*must*_ exist. That and the fact that they've, again, outright said that he could appear in other series, as it would be rather weird to have a character who is no longer in continuity suddenly make guest appearances in a comic.


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## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

im sorta doubtful he'll still have kids but regardless they arent foolish enough to wipe out wally completely.


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## Bender (Jul 26, 2011)

> What progress, though? Lower sales?



The lack of progress came from lack of CAPABLE writers. If returning titles to issues #1 then Marvel would be one of the most ridiculously popular bitches in entertainment. But they still aren't. They like Dccomics suffer from a lack of capable writers. In addition, there's editors obstructing crossover events with plans of their own. For example: Countdown to Final Crisis or books like Cry for Justice which ruined Roy Harper forever.




> Superman, Flash and Wonder Woman are at low points, and that's 3 _big_ titles.



Superman was ruined because the terrible selection of writers on the book. I.E. JMS and JMS for Wonder Woman and Jim Lee's repetitive character designs.



> The problem is that all progress isn't good, and that their universe needs a huge injection of ideas and energy that is impossible to do without doing something drastic.



Then how about less obstruction from the editors? Let the writers do their own ideas. We were pumped for Batman Incorporated issues onwards but instead we're introduced to this reboot.




> My problem with the Flash family isn't that Barry's coming back. In all honesty, ever since starting comics with Infinite Crisis



Things were bad even before Infinite Crisis. Identity Crisis was a kick in the nuts to everyone. 




> They had a poor start with Bart, and Wally's return didn't help.



IIRC Bart was put down so there wouldn't be too many Flashes hanging around. Kay, if that's so what the hell with Barry and Wally West being around Final Crisis and onward?



> I was hoping that having super-powered kids would be a cool thing... but in all honesty, it hasn't helped.



Because they didn't have good ideas for how to do his character what with the super-kids who they should've reverted to being normal kids. Things seemed all Fantastic 4 like with them around.




> So I understand why they are retiring Wally: In all honesty, he comes off as older than Barry.



Eh? Not in particular in my book. He still seems a bit more immature than Barry. Shoot, anyone with a knowledge of pre-crisis knows that he was Barry's ward.



> Both are married, but one has two kids in elementary school. One actually has a decent reason to not be on the active list. Wally settling down (instead of dying) would be something that works well, as at least it gives him a happy ending.



I'm saying Wally should still be around to play the "Nightwing" of the Flash family. You know someone who is the second in command. 



> Barry gets to run around and be a superhero, while Wally enjoys his family and occasionally pitches in. In a sense, he's actually passed Barry by being so damn successful.



Wally has been successful however, Barry was the one who is most remembered his sacrifice Crisis on Infinite Earths.




> I think he can be an interesting character without Lian... Lian just made him really _unique_.



It was Lian that pretty much completed him. Someone that made people forget about his druggie traits that he was infamous for during the New Teen Titans era. In "The Outsiders" he would balance that out along with being a hero.


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## MrChubz (Jul 26, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Considering they *outright confirmed* that she was still in the universe, she'll be able to have that cup of tea!


When you find the book she's in you'll be able to have it.



> From the creator's mouth? Again, where do we get any indications that he's completely gone? Did Didio tell you and just not tell everyone else? Where are the indications that Bart has been the only Kid Flash?
> 
> Oh, wait, I forgot: Since it's already been confirmed that the Wolfman era Titans existed, that means that Wally _*must*_ exist. That and the fact that they've, again, outright said that he could appear in other series, as it would be rather weird to have a character who is no longer in continuity suddenly make guest appearances in a comic.



Okay, I guess I'll buy Hawk and Dove and be able to read about Wally West.


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## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

she'll be in Batman: Leviathan obviously.


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## Bender (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah she's under Grant Morrison's penmanship


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## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

Bender said:


> The lack of progress came from lack of CAPABLE writers. If returning titles to issues #1 then Marvel would be one of the most ridiculously popular bitches in entertainment. But they still aren't. They like Dccomics suffer from a lack of capable writers.



That's BS, marvel's writers are hardly bad at all, especially ones putting out recent #1s. The problem comics are having right now is more related to bad distribution issues, and probably the stigma against comics.

And im sorry but stuff like Lian is just DC's terrible habit of aging all their characters too quickly, till we get to this point- where the DCU feels like its totally populated by middle-aged heroes beyond their prime, with all their best stories already behind them. I mean, itd be one thing if, say, Aquaman had a kid who was still alive (lol). When the sidekicks are old enough to be having kids, kids who seem to be beyond even being toddlers, that is a problem.


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## Guy Gardner (Jul 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> im sorta doubtful he'll still have kids but regardless they arent foolish enough to wipe out wally completely.



They are aged the way they are because of time travel. It's not like Lian, where she actually aged at an appropriate rate... kind of. o.0



MrChubz said:


> When you find the book she's in you'll be able to have it.



Batman: Leviathan. Morrison said he's still using her. This was confirmed long ago.



> Okay, I guess I'll buy Hawk and Dove and be able to read about Wally West.



Or you could stop being an obtuse tool. I think the latter is a much smarter thing to do, as it'll improve your life immensely. This is Phenomenol-level thinking here.



Bender said:


> The lack of progress came from lack of CAPABLE writers. If returning titles to issues #1 then Marvel would be one of the most ridiculously popular bitches in entertainment. But they still aren't. They like Dccomics suffer from a lack of capable writers. In addition, there's editors obstructing crossover events with plans of their own. For example: Countdown to Final Crisis or books like Cry for Justice which ruined Roy Harper forever.



You're right: It came from bad writers and/or bad ideas. Mainly Countdown, but again, they've advanced to a point where they need something big to reinvigorate their universe. A relaunch and partial reboot is definitely something along those lines.

And I think Marvel has plenty of good writers, though I think DC is underrated in their staff. The thing is that Marvel has done a lot more to show off their good writers, while DC has just not been managing them properly. Hopefully the variety in titles will show off how many good writers DC does have.



> Superman was ruined because the terrible selection of writers on the book. I.E. JMS and JMS for Wonder Woman and Jim Lee's repetitive character designs.



Well, yeah.



> Then how about less obstruction from the editors? Let the writers do their own ideas. We were pumped for Batman Incorporated issues onwards but instead we're introduced to this reboot.



Because to get all the shitty stuff that has happened, you need to leave it. Clean things up, try new ideas. It's also to try and make things accessible.



> Things were bad even before Infinite Crisis. Identity Crisis was a kick in the nuts to everyone.



Brad Meltzer is pretty good at those.



> IIRC Bart was put down so there wouldn't be too many Flashes hanging around.



I thought Bart was put down because his launch sucked and they tried to desperately get back to what they thought worked.



> Kay, if that's so what the hell with Barry and Wally West being around Final Crisis and onward?



???

If I remember correctly, haven't all three been around? The bigger problem here is that Wally is sort of the odd-man-out when it comes to identity: he's too old for the Kid Flash moniker, and it's odd to share the Flash name. Now I would have been fine to keep Wally and have Barry travel the multiverse hunting Zoom, but that's not what is happening. 



> Because they didn't have good ideas for how to do his character what with the super-kids who they should've reverted to being normal kids. Things seemed all Fantastic 4 like with them around.



Yeah, I agree. I would just as well have him have a smaller part in the DCU, like a part-timer. It's not like it he doesn't have time, but just do a lot of lower-risk sort of stuff and help out when things are particularly big.



> Eh? Not in particular in my book. He still seems a bit more immature than Barry. Shoot, anyone with a knowledge of pre-crisis knows that he was Barry's ward.



Perhaps it's wrong to say that Wally seems older, because the character doesn't seem old. But perhaps it's because he has more roots at home now that it seems more logical for him to settle for a while rather than Barry. Chalk that up to poor phrasing.



> I'm saying Wally should still be around to play the "Nightwing" of the Flash family. You know someone who is the second in command.



Perhaps. I think having him as a reserve member wouldn't be a bad idea. The same thing was proposed for Cyclops, as a guy who had a family and had done a lot, and could be called upon when needed. I mean, it's not like it's difficult for him to get somewhere when he needs to.



> Wally has been successful however, Barry was the one who is most remembered his sacrifice Crisis on Infinite Earths.



That's what I mean: Wally has been immensely successful! He's saved the world, lived up to Barry's legacy and gone well beyond that. Even if it's only been a short time since he's started, he might deserve a break.



> It was Lian that pretty much completed him. Someone that made people forget about his druggie traits that he was infamous for during the New Teen Titans era. In "The Outsiders" he would balance that out along with being a hero.



Yeah, I know. I'm disappointed with it, though I think Speedy can exist without Lian as a compelling character. I do agree, though, that what made him so unique as a comic book character is likely gone forever, or at least a good amount of time.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> They are aged the way they are because of time travel. It's not like Lian, where she actually aged at an appropriate rate... kind of. o.0



I know that but 1) they're the reason they had to switch back to barry in the first place. Yes Im convinced of that. And 2) Barry isn't even married yet in the DCnU.

Just seems like the obvious thing to do would be to get rid of the problem, and they did it with Lian so......


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> That's BS, marvel's writers are hardly bad at all, especially ones putting out recent #1s. The problem comics are having right now is more related to bad distribution issues, and probably the stigma against comics.



The Savage Critics podcast brought up a good point on this: it's not that Marvel consistently outsells DC, but that comic book shops consistently buy more Marvel books. DC has done a couple experiments with overshipping comics, and every time they do their sales improve immensely at that shop. Warren Ellis stated it in his analysis of the Relaunch: the shops don't seem to treat DC with the same respect, despite the fact that the company largely treats them better than Marvel ever did.



Petes12 said:


> I know that but 1) they're the reason they had to switch back to barry in the first place. Yes Im convinced of that. And 2) Barry isn't even married yet in the DCnU.



I think you are right on #1 (it seems obvious that they wrote themselves into a hole), while I think Barry being married isn't much of a problem. He disappeared before he married, and now that he's back he can finally get married.


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## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

And no wally definitely seems older even though its not true.


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## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

That's a bit hard to believe because I generally see higher quality coming out of the Marvel books. And why would shops want to hurt their own business?


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## Bender (Jul 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> That's BS, marvel's writers are hardly bad at all, especially ones putting out recent #1s.



Yeah, that's my point. Those writers who do never get popular for more than a month or less. They're willing to reboot their entire verse just for sales to see a month rise? Also I didn't mean to so loosely slander Marvel I'm actually in love with their writing and less bridge dropping like Dc does to it's characters.
re



> And im sorry but stuff like Lian is just DC's terrible habit of aging all their characters too quickly



Which is an example of bad writing. Like when Bart appeared at the end of Infinite Crisis as "The Flash"?  Come now what was the point of that if you're going to kill him off horrifically in OYL? Not to mention they later revived in him Final Crisis.  



> , till we get to this point- where the DCU feels like its totally populated by middle-aged heroes beyond their prime



It was until they were *deaged*. 

Bruce was like in is 30's or 40's IIRC.



> When the sidekicks are old enough to be having kids, kids who seem to be beyond even being toddlers, that is a problem.



Then . Killing them off the way Lian was is in terrible taste. Wally West and Roy could've both sent their kids to live with their aunt, uncles, or grandma someone who isn't involved in the costume biz.


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## Guy Gardner (Jul 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> That's a bit hard to believe because I generally see higher quality coming out of the Marvel books.



Quality doesn't necessarily impact sales. Jeph Loeb's Hulk was a really popular book, despite the entire internet shitting on it. In fact, a lot of Jeph Loeb's stuff tends to sell well. Quality is rather subjective, but from what I've heard it seems to indicate that DC shouldn't be nearly as far behind as they are.


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## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

Killing her was a bad idea. Erasing her entirely because post-flashpoint characters are getting de-aged? that I'm ok with actually!


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## Bender (Jul 26, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> They are aged the way they are because of time travel. It's not like Lian, where she actually aged at an appropriate rate... kind of. o.0







> You're right: It came from bad writers and/or bad ideas. Mainly Countdown, but again, they've advanced to a point where they need something big to reinvigorate their universe. A relaunch and partial reboot is definitely something along those lines.



Okay, if so then just take a note of success from Marvel and revert their titles to #1 WITHOUT completely rebooting the verse. At least that way people will be more familiar with the verse. For example: Mortal Kombat people are now aware and more talky about because it's something they can follow. Although, it was retconned they still included shout-outs from former events that happened in the previous Mortal Kombat games. Hell include a comic-info book the size of a regular comic for people who are new to DCU to catch up. When I'm in the comic book store I saw a X-men book that informed those who weren't familiar with the previous events of X-men.  





> And I think Marvel has plenty of good writers, though I think DC is underrated in their staff.



They are. However, it's because of obstruction that a large number of books are neglected somewhat




> The thing is that Marvel has done a lot more to show off their good writers, while DC has just not been managing them properly. Hopefully the variety in titles will show off how many good writers DC does have.






> Well, yeah.







> Because to get all the shitty stuff that has happened, you need to leave it. Clean things up, try new ideas. It's also to try and make things accessible.






> Brad Meltzer is pretty good at those.



Yeah, but he dickrided the hell out Deathstroke (Read Identity Crisis for for further explanation).






> I thought Bart was put down because his launch sucked and they tried to desperately get back to what they thought worked.



No, they put him down cuz they were bringing back Wally West.





> ???
> 
> If I remember correctly, haven't all three been around? The bigger problem here is that Wally is sort of the odd-man-out when it comes to identity: he's too old for the Kid Flash moniker, and it's odd to share the Flash name. Now I would have been fine to keep Wally and have Barry travel the multiverse hunting Zoom, but that's not what is happening.



If they didn't want Wally sharing the Flash name they could've had him become Impulse instead seeing as how he is a tad impulsive. 




> Perhaps it's wrong to say that Wally seems older, because the character doesn't seem old. But perhaps it's because he has more roots at home now that it seems more logical for him to settle for a while rather than Barry. Chalk that up to poor phrasing.



Aye, but anyone who's familiar with Wally's Justice League cartoon version would agree that he would do well as "Impulse" seeing as how he's the "kiddiest" of the lot.






> Yeah, I know. I'm disappointed with it, though I think Speedy can exist without Lian as a compelling character. I do agree, though, that what made him so unique as a comic book character is likely gone forever, or at least a good amount of time.



K but not only did Lian die Roy did as well. Shit, as a result of Lian he went stark raving mad. He became a bloody lunatic.


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## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

if wally from the DCAU existed in the DCU i'd be sadder about him getting sidelined. But everything I've read with him he's basically barry with a shittier job, so I dont totally get what the big deal is.


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## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

lol, roy's baseball cap was originally going to be red but they thought it was 'a little too cute'. Of course on the cover to issue 1 the cap has a dead cat on it


----------



## illmatic (Jul 26, 2011)

> Asking about "Flash" continuity, the next fan asked if Iris is dead.
> 
> “Iris is alive,” confirmed Manapul, saying that in the comic Barry Allen and Iris went out in the past but it never progressed and he is currently single.



Barry x Iris is no more.


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## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

Sooo I'm about to make people angry again



And I'm just going to say I kind of like the idea for most of the rogues to be metas. Makes captain cold less of a lame looking mr freeze clone. Plus, its really hard to buy that he invented that thing.


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## Comic Book Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Flash Rogues.

Meta.

. . .

Hmm.


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## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

as long as heatwave doesnt look like the human torch...


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## Bluebeard (Jul 26, 2011)

Metahuman Rogues? 

It makes sense, I suppose.


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## MrChubz (Jul 26, 2011)

Of all of the things DC could shit on they chose The Flash books. Metahuman rogues aren't the worst thing ever, but I always liked the idea that they used technology. It dignified them in a way.


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## Petes12 (Jul 26, 2011)

was kinda weird though because they all come off as really petty crooks who somehow managed to invent some serious gadgetry.


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## Guy Gardner (Jul 26, 2011)

I always thought the fact that they weren't great inventors nor metas kind of kept them grounded. It's been said a lot that the Flash's Rogues are more like Union Worker Villains, who treat things as a day job. They may enjoy it to varying degrees (Like Heatwave), but it's mostly a job, which I liked.

Making them metas isn't a huge thing, though I'd rather them remain humans.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 27, 2011)

Meta Rogues suck

you suck Petes

way to go >:[


----------



## Rod (Jul 27, 2011)

On the Flashes, the decision about Wally at first does not seem plot induced although GG's spin a couple of posts above is doable.

Tho, I'm lazy to find the references as of now, Im pretty sure somewhere around Didio admitted DC unfortunately had poor planning regarding said character in the latest years, thus we see such is the result.

_PS: On specific notes, it was mentioned for example there is simply no basic logical congruence in what refers to Wally's family and himself in concrete aspects (timeline, continuity,...) etc..._


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 27, 2011)

Meta rogues is kinda lame, since it takes away from the whole "regular joe" supervillain angle they have going for them, but its not the end of the world.

Now Wally being left out, that really does suck. I feel like im the only one who actually liked the idea of 2 flashes.


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## Petes12 (Jul 27, 2011)

Id have to say yes you are. Always seemed like a silly compromise to me


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 27, 2011)

I just dont see how Barry coming back made Wally any less the flash. Also, I dont see why Keystone couldnt get Wally while Barry took Central. Obviously, id be fine with Barry taking the role as the primary flash, but Id rather have Wally benched (while popping up from time to time in other books) than completely removed from the universe.


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## Parallax (Jul 27, 2011)

Petes in matters of the Flash you suck

go home


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 27, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I just dont see how Barry coming back made Wally any less the flash. Also, I dont see why Keystone couldnt get Wally while Barry took Central. Obviously, id be fine with Barry taking the role as the primary flash, but Id rather have Wally benched (while popping up from time to time in other books) than completely removed from the universe.



there's no chance hes been erased. its not a matter of it making sense in universe, though, its a matter of making sense to do comics about the flash where there's 2 guys with the same name when you're trying to get new readers. I dont even like that stuff. Multiple batmen was different because it was a story about a web of batmen all over the world, but in the context of 'yeah we just have 2/3 flashes running around, just deal with it', I thought it was dumb. 

They need to find something to do with Wally eventually though... I don't know what, but he should be addressed.


----------



## Bender (Jul 27, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Meta rogues is kinda lame, since it takes away from the whole "regular joe" supervillain angle they have going for them, but its not the end of the world.



Agreed

@Petes12

Ripped off Mr. Freeze's weapon? Pfft, it's believable that he created it by his own seeing as how nearly everyone in the DCU is a smart mofo.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 27, 2011)

you dont think thats how the casual reader would see it? "wow its mr freeze but in a stupid parka"

the rogues have great personalities, and i guess part of the fun of them is the irony of that contrasted to how inherently lame they are otherwise, but I wouldn't mind something that... makes a bit more sense.


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 27, 2011)

So he goes from, "Mr. Freeze ripoff, lol," to, "Generic ice guy, lol," I understand trying to bring casual readers in, but there comes a point (like when the bad guy is an ice dude) where the writing has to sell the character to the reader not the power.

Edit: Also what about the ones with not so generic powers like Mirror Master and Weather Wizard (I know weather is rather generic but to a casual if he's meta, he's a storm ripoff). And then there's guys who it makes no sense for it to be meta like Captain Boomerang. Seriously, what power will he have? The power to make boomerangs shoot out of his hands?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 27, 2011)

Isnt captain boomerang already doing that 

seriously, weather wizard is a guy named weather wizard who waves a wand at you to make storms. a wand. I just dont have a problem with that, or mirror master's abilities not coming from some kind of weird mirror gun that puts you in other dimensions (what?)

For me, as long as their personalities are intact, its ok.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 27, 2011)

Its a real shame the Rogues take all the spotlight. Especially since I find most of the stuff done with them recently to be really bland.

Which probably stems from Johns making each one of them extreme in those profile issues. I want more Gorilla Grodd in my Flash comics.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 27, 2011)

Does Flash have villains besides Grodd, Rogues, and Reverse Flash?


----------



## Parallax (Jul 27, 2011)

none worth mentioning really


----------



## Taleran (Jul 27, 2011)

It was the Rogues, Grodd, Reverse, and then countless one shot villains.


That is the problem with being the most Meta comic character you get all the strange villains that only appear once.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 28, 2011)

that issue is fun times


----------



## illmatic (Jul 29, 2011)

DC Comics Announces Committment To Female Creators And Characters



> Over the past week we’ve heard from fans about a need for more women writers, artists and characters. We want you to know, first and foremost, that we hear you and take your concerns very seriously.
> 
> We’ve been very fortunate in recent years to have fan favorite creators like Gail Simone, Amy Reeder, Felicia Henderson, Fiona Staples, Amanda Connor, G. Willow Wilson and Nicola Scott write and draw the adventures of the World’s Greatest Super Heroes.
> 
> ...


----------



## Parallax (Jul 29, 2011)

ten bucks that someone will still find a way to complain about this


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 30, 2011)




----------



## Taleran (Jul 30, 2011)

I figured he would go that route but I didn't think he would include all the Aquaman punchlines in 4 pages. He is gonna run out of joke material.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 30, 2011)

Parallax said:


> ten bucks that someone will still find a way to complain about this



I just got into a shitstorm of a fight over at Comics Alliance in the article that, presumably, lead up to this. God, you'd think that DC was telling women to get into the kitchen or something.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 31, 2011)

It _is_ a male-dominated industry. How many females are trying to be comics writers and artists?


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 31, 2011)

Brave and the Bold Aquaman is still my favourite Aquaman, but the preview looks ok.



illmatic said:


> DC Comics Announces Committment To Female Creators And Characters



This is pretty awesome 8D


----------



## Taleran (Jul 31, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> It _is_ a male-dominated industry. How many females are trying to be comics writers and artists?



This is something people overlook.


Also I don't want this to sound negative but I feel people will give mediocrity a pass because the creator is a female in this new initiative.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 31, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> It _is_ a male-dominated industry. How many females are trying to be comics writers and artists?



Not as many as there are males maybe but more than are being hired. When Dido said "Who should we have hired?" there was a public letter signed by a dozen female creators with experience at DC and Marvel published in 24 hours.



I assumed the number of artists, ilustraitors and whatnot is equally devided amongst the sexes if not biased towards females. I know I have a bunch of female made webcomics on my reading list.

Plus I'm informed DC hiring is an old boys club of the guys you know, rather than open submissions or active talent hunting.

I'm not saying it's 50/50 but in the new 52 it's 2/100 so yeah.



Taleran said:


> This is something people overlook.
> 
> 
> Also I don't want this to sound negative but I feel people will give mediocrity a pass because the creator is a female in this new initiative.



Dude, fucking Liefeld is drawing a book in the new 52, don't try and connect femininity with mediocrity. 

If you actually see a case of people praising a female creator purely because of her sex when she actually fails to pass the mark, say so, but don't assume any drive to increase the number of female creators can only come at the expense of quality when we all know most of the new 52 won't pass the 12 issue mark.

You're making the same mistake most people do when there's a drive to increase the number of females in a field, like, say, politics. You assume there's a level playing field and that any qualified woman could make it without help and if they don't make it, the man who beat them _must_ be better.

Well, you're wrong. The world sadly doesn't work that way yet and neither does DC comics.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 31, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Dude, fucking Liefeld is drawing a book in the new 52, don't try and connect femininity with mediocrity.
> 
> If you actually see a case of people praising a female creator purely because of her sex when she actually fails to pass the mark, say so, but don't assume any drive to increase the number of female creators can only come at the expense of quality when we all know most of the new 52 won't pass the 12 issue mark.
> 
> ...



Where am I praising crappy male creators?

Also you are twisting the words of what I said and I don't appreciate this. 

My *feeling* that people *could* latch onto mediocrity just because they are female is a high *possibility*. (from past experiences)

I am not making any definitive statements about gender and quality please stop assuming that I am.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 31, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Where am I praising crappy male creators?



You aren't, never said you were.



> Also you are twisting the words of what I said and I don't appreciate this.
> 
> My *feeling* that people *could* latch onto mediocrity just because they are female is a high *possibility*. (from past experiences)
> 
> I am not making any definitive statements about gender and quality please stop assuming that I am.



Yes, that is what you said, and that is what I replied to.

You're giving an opinion, apparently based on past experience, and I disagree with the premise of that opinion. If you don't want me to agree or disagree with something you said, don't say anything.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 31, 2011)

I brought up male creators because you brought up Rob randomly. 

Also you don't think that the possibility of what I am talking about exists at all? Seriously? I find that incredibly naive.


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## The Pink Ninja (Jul 31, 2011)

It does exist but no more than a bunch of other possibilities. You didn't bring up any of them, just this one and in this context.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 31, 2011)

People latch on to creators of anything based on attributes about the person over the quality of their work all the time. If they share a gender, a creed, a belief, an attitude. Hell that even applies to the medium itself. People support things for reasons other than quality ALL THE TIME. To think it will not happen here is SILLY.

Fans request for more Female Creators, DC goes sure we will give you what you want. I can easily see people once those books come out that the fans will talk up work that may not be as good as it is because they want more people to read it, not necessarily of any inherent quality within the work.

Also I shouldn't have to bring up all the other possibilities of what will happen because I am talking about this one.

Sure the creator could be shit and people could call them on it (Valerie D'Orazio) but after a big push by fans that went through and DC seems to be listening I think people will want the work that comes from this to be good regardless of how good it is.


I want to be wrong in this case but I can't shake a feeling.


----------



## Rod (Jul 31, 2011)

Tho, adding to Tal I'd say this also happens to fan-favourites, some will subconsciously tend to be apologists.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 31, 2011)

I think the whole female creators issue was a little overblown, given that writers were largely being chosen based on story pitches and artists based on how well their style matched the tone of the books- doesn't seem like a situation where Affirmative Action makes sense, you pick the story that sounds best or whatever. 

And, you know, people are surprised DC continues to hire a lot of the same people even with the relaunch? Did people really expect DC to essentially fire half their creators or something? 

All that said, overblown that it was, it had a good result. I don't think DC was purposefully shutting out women but it's great that they'll be actively looking for them. Second wave of books should be interesting, it's also been said they're looking for a lot more 'fun' books for it.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 31, 2011)

I agree with Tal on this one

I've seen it happen in every medium you can think of

I'm not saying it WILL happen but I can definitely see it.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 31, 2011)

*Lots* of things happen in every medium. There's no good reason for you to promote this *one* thing in this context.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 31, 2011)

Taleran said:


> This is something people overlook.
> 
> 
> Also I don't want this to sound negative but I feel people will give mediocrity a pass because the creator is a female in this new initiative.



So, business as usual, then.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 31, 2011)

There are several people involved in the relaunch who are mediocre.

I don't care if it has a penis or a vagina, but they really need to hire new blood and stop depending on the same old group that seems to be stuck in the 90s.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 31, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> *Lots* of things happen in every medium. There's no good reason for you to promote this *one* thing in this context.



Talking about something isn't promoting it.


----------



## Glued (Jul 31, 2011)

Taleran said:


> I figured he would go that route but I didn't think he would include all the Aquaman punchlines in 4 pages. He is gonna run out of joke material.



When it comes to Aquaman, there is always plenty of joke materials.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> There are several people involved in the relaunch who are mediocre.



I agree, but I'm just saying, from the perspective of... whoever does the hiring at DC, I'd think it'd be hard to tell a bunch of people you've worked with for ages that they're not invited back because they suck. 

There's also that awful grip of nostalgic idiot fans have on DC that they pander to a lot. Oh, Jurgens! Of course he should write JLI, he created Booster Gold! Nevermind that he's like the blandest writer in history. Oh and lets also have him draw Green Arrow! Also nevermind that he's like the blandest artist in history. 

Seriously, it blows my mind that people still like art like that. 

...I think I got off-topic.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 31, 2011)

Oh yeah, on what Taleran said, that might be true of some people but there's people who will give books undue shit because the writer is female too.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 31, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I agree, but I'm just saying, from the perspective of... whoever does the hiring at DC, I'd think it'd be hard to tell a bunch of people you've worked with for ages that they're not invited back because they suck.
> 
> There's also that awful grip of nostalgic idiot fans have on DC that they pander to a lot. Oh, Jurgens! Of course he should write JLI, he created Booster Gold! Nevermind that he's like the blandest writer in history. Oh and lets also have him draw Green Arrow! Also nevermind that he's like the blandest artist in history.
> 
> ...



I don't know why they gave three books to Lobdell. Nothing against him, but _three_? And why give Catwoman to Winick of all people? Not to mention how many artists are writing their books.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 31, 2011)

There's nothing innately wrong with artists writing their books, Gabs.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 31, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> There's nothing innately wrong with artists writing their books, Gabs.



Yeah, but not all artists can write. DC can't risk getting new blood for the relaunch but they can risk letting artists who never wrote before write the relaunch books?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 31, 2011)

It's cheaper! I think the artist on catwoman is more telling than Winnick writing.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 31, 2011)

Is it? 

Cheesecake art is one thing. Cheesecake art + the writing telling you the book is gonna be dirty and sexysexysexysexysexysexysexysexy and did i mention sexy is another.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 31, 2011)

On average, a comics writer writes about how many panels are in a page and the content of each panel.

And from there, the artist takes over in not only illustrating the content but designing the storytelling layout.

More advanced comics writer can write about the layout, the size and shapes of the panels. But it's one thing to write about it and another thing to actually put it to a comic book.

I somewhat see it that writers plot and dialogue while artists illustrate.

The storytelling, however, depends on the writer and artist.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 31, 2011)

Yeah. I read the interview. To be fair there were some good things too- like how he wants to approach her planning heists etc. But the artist alone really just says to me, yeah this is gonna be another cheesecake book like Gotham City Sirens.

I don't really care that there's a book like that out there either way, and at least its catwoman and not, like, wonder woman or batgirl they're doing that with. But I can see why it annoys other people.

edit: particularly since there's only so many female led books out there.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 31, 2011)

catwoman + sexy 

It works for me.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 1, 2011)

Starfire's Flashpoint outfit is hilarious


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 1, 2011)

What book is she in? I want to see lol. Or do you mean post-FP starfire with the shoulder pads? XD


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## gabzilla (Aug 1, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> What book is she in? I want to see lol. Or do you mean post-FP starfire with the shoulder pads? XD



I think she appears in the Deadman one?


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 1, 2011)

Damn, she's having a bad clothes life.

Has she ever been in anything good?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 1, 2011)

the kids show? 

otherwise no. 

that outfit reminds me of something but I cant think of what.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 1, 2011)

Witchblade?

Between this and Zatanna's they should rename it Crotchpoint.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 1, 2011)

Flashpoint still works, when you think about it.


----------



## Cromer (Aug 1, 2011)

What I wonder is, why is Scott Kolins still getting writing jobs? Stick to art, man.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 1, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I think she appears in the Deadman one?



I kinda like it. Actually better than her canon ones and much better than her upcoming outlaws one.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 1, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I kinda like it. Actually better than her canon ones and much better than her upcoming outlaws one.



**



Petes12 said:


> Flashpoint still works, when you think about it.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 2, 2011)




----------



## The man with a pigeon (Aug 2, 2011)

So much for modern revision.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 2, 2011)

So no pants takes the win.


----------



## Bluebeard (Aug 2, 2011)

No pants.


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## gabzilla (Aug 2, 2011)

Retractable pants.


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## Petes12 (Aug 2, 2011)

nostalgia continues to choke the life out of DC's comics even in their 'new' and 'fresh' relaunch 

oh well. at least the minimal stars looks a lot better...

also, I like how Finch left Cyborg out, nice one Finch.

Also lol at everyone's faces on that cover. Like everyone's trying way too hard to be as cool as batman, even batman.


----------



## Slice (Aug 2, 2011)

Pants / no pants i don't care, the costume looked good either way.
The cover here on the other hand i don't like.

Everyone is trying to make their best "grim dark" face.


New gabzilla set is pek


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 2, 2011)

Lol all the guys in that picture look so grim and serious, but Wondy looks like she's about to cry.


----------



## Bender (Aug 2, 2011)

Finally no pants  

pek pek pek

@ Emperor Joker 

I know right


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 2, 2011)

Slice said:


> Pants / no pants i don't care, the costume looked good either way.
> The cover here on the other hand i don't like.
> 
> Everyone is trying to make their best "grim dark" face.
> ...



It's "everybody wants to be a Bat" day


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 2, 2011)

No one reads my entire posts do they?


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 2, 2011)

I thought quoting both was overkill 

Also, yeah, why is Cyborg missing?


----------



## Bender (Aug 2, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I thought quoting both was overkill
> 
> Also, yeah, why is Cyborg missing?



Yeah, I wanna know what they did with him? 

Ol Cy afraid to show his face.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 2, 2011)

The caption for the cover could be "Wonder women & her Harem"

-They are all trying their hardest to look grim dark & rebellious for WW

-WW on the verge of tears is actually meant as her best attempt at looking "moe"

-Wonder Woman wearing short shorts basically there since she is one of those high maintenance ho on the down low types who hides under a facade known as empowerment of women 











-Cyborg missing since he is rumored to be a scrub by virtue of being African-American











_[sarcasm][/sarcasm]_


----------



## Bender (Aug 2, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> It's "everybody wants to be a Bat" day



Awww isn't that cute? 

And the look on Bats face as they emulate him is so  He's so proud of what he's done to the DCU with his juicy grimness.


----------



## Nightblade (Aug 2, 2011)

heh thought WW was dropping all that silver for gold. gold would've been better.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 2, 2011)

I actually like the silver... if only because it gives her a color scheme different from Superman's.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 2, 2011)

I don't mind the silver either


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 2, 2011)

Yeah the silver looks fine on her...my only problem is I wish DC would make up thier minds on whether they want her in pants or not.


----------



## Nightblade (Aug 2, 2011)

eh I'm okay with it too. but it could have been better, like a lot of things in this reboot. 

and this seems to be final. Wonder Woman's going to be that half naked chick who kicks a lot of ass just like old times except not exactly like old times.


----------



## Bluebeard (Aug 2, 2011)

The silver on Wondy is pretty cool, but I kind of wish they'd give her a goddamn battle skirt. Still better than pants, though.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 2, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Yeah the silver looks fine on her...my only problem is I wish DC would make up thier minds on whether they want her in pants or not.



I told you, they are retractable.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 2, 2011)

I lol'd.

That's actually how cyborg's looked a lot of the time though in a way... glad they changed that.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 2, 2011)

I saw that on tumblr.

I'll be ok with it


----------



## Cromer (Aug 3, 2011)

Can I be the lone voice of dissent? Give Wondy her pants back, DC!


----------



## Whimsy (Aug 3, 2011)

I thought the pants kinda made sense too

or trousers as we civilised folk call them


----------



## Nightblade (Aug 3, 2011)

tbh the pants look good on her new costume.

well, they'll change it all back in 6 months anyway.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 3, 2011)

All this.

For pants.


----------



## Bender (Aug 3, 2011)

^

I know it's freaking retarded


Wondy + pants= Fugly


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 3, 2011)

Yea I kind of wish they kept the pants.


----------



## Bender (Aug 3, 2011)

^

Dammit

At first it was stupid now people like it? 

For god sakes WW is a savage amazon they're not supposed to be noble-looking what with pants n what naw.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 3, 2011)

I've never thought of wonder woman as savage. She's a warrior yes, but not really a savage one.

Also, for new readers, I can totally understand how ridiculous it would be for the premier female superhero (and only girl in the league) to run around in her underwear

I just think its funny that all the guys are wearing armor yet the only girl is wearing boy shorts and a tube top.


----------



## Bender (Aug 3, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Also, for new readers, I can totally understand how ridiculous it would be for the premier female superhero (and only girl in the league) to run around in her underwear



K though here's the reality of it for me: To make her dress in such a fashion is ripping off Dinah Lance and bringing Batman's gritty world stylings to others. Not to mention furthering JMS's gawdy awful run on WW. In addition I don't see how it's ridiculous considering she wore the near-exact same thing in the Justice League cartoon and I heard zero complaints.

 To me saying it's ridiculous is saying you have a short attention span and only focus on ridiculous aspects like Superman vs Batman with Bats always prevailing. You know that sort of shit that makes the popular one end up with victory cuz of his fanbase (I.E. shit from Batman Hush).

With this type of insight might as well say you only wants to appeal to more boy readers since those are the only ones that are going to be fascinated  by her change. 

P.S. If her wearing underwear was that big of deal then by that logic Batman's comic book popularity should've dropped by now seeing as how his earlier costume was essentially some dude in his undies along with other material designs. Kinda contradictive logic IMO.

EDIT: 

Also "savage" is the word I get from Wonder Woman considering her society has a law of there being no males allowed on their ground as well as the belief all men are scum. In addition there's the no qualms against killing like her enemies from her rogue galleries and snapping Max Lord's neck.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 3, 2011)

Bender said:


> K though here's the reality of it for me: To make her dress in such a fashion is ripping off Dinah Lance and bringing Batman's gritty world stylings to others. Not to mention furthering JMS's gawdy awful run on WW. In addition I don't see how it's ridiculous considering she wore the near-exact same thing in the Justice League cartoon and I heard zero complaints.



So pants = gritty batman stuff? That I don't get.

As for the cartoon, thats a point, but cartoon's are targeted to kids, not teens and young adults. 



> With this type of insight might as well say you only wants to appeal to more boy readers since those are the only ones that are going to be fascinated  by her change.



So you're saying that girl readers aren't going to care about changing the premier female superhero's costume?



> P.S. If her wearing underwear was that big of deal then by that logic Batman's comic book popularity should've dropped by now seeing as how his earlier costume was essentially some dude in his undies along with other material designs. Kinda contradictive logic IMO.



There's a difference between no pants and pants with underwear overtop. One is kind of funny, one is just creepy.

For instance, Robin outside of comics is hardly taken serious at all. Do you really think him running around in green underoos didn't contribute to that?

All I'm saying is, if DC really wants to attract new readers (which they desperately need) they need to show that comics can be mature. And at first glance, its pretty immature that all the guys look like they're going into a fight while all the girls look like sexed up models.


----------



## Bluebeard (Aug 3, 2011)

Just put Wondy in a damn metal battleskirt and be done with it, DC.


----------



## Slice (Aug 3, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> All I'm saying is, if DC really wants to attract new readers (which they desperately need) they need to show that comics can be mature. And at first glance, its pretty immature that all the guys look like they're going into a fight while all the girls look like sexed up models.



This

They redesign it to look more practical and like armor. Fine. But then do it for _everyone_ and don't exclude Wondy, Harley and Starfire.


----------



## Bender (Aug 3, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So pants = gritty batman stuff? That I don't get.



What I'm saying is that Wondy is like those usual city crime fighters with the pants n' what naw.



> As for the cartoon, thats a point, but cartoon's are targeted to kids, not teens and young adults.



Huh, and yet alot of mature audiences saw them. I mean seriously though bro saying that she needs pants to attract mature readers makes zero sense. I mean Emma Frost wears a fucking corset and yet there are plenty of older X-men readers. I recall a while ago when I was attending Summer school my bus driver (a family man) said he has no problem with how she looks. 




> So you're saying that girl readers aren't going to care about changing the premier female superhero's costume?



You mean about the fact she's not wearing pants? No I don't think they'll care much cuz if they did we'd be hearing more from them before this design crisis even began.



> For instance, Robin outside of comics is hardly taken serious at all. Do you really think him running around in green underoos didn't contribute to that?



That's because he was a dude. Not to mention Robin wearing those green undies was during the golden age of comics. Not much serious there to begin with. Robin was patrolling crime in a city of hard core gangsters and where crime is at it's highest. Come the silver age where we're hit with Jason Todd's death yeah it only makes sense that he changes costumes. But let's look at it from this angle as well: The Robins are mortals while Wondy isn't. 




> All I'm saying is, if DC really wants to attract new readers (which they desperately need) they need to show that comics can be mature.



Then they should make it so their writing isn't so ridiculous. For instance, JLA Cry for Justice and the two aftermath books Rise and fallen. Those are inexplicably fail and something out of a horrid high school play or a really bad fanfic.




> And at first glance, its pretty immature that all the guys look like they're going into a fight while all the girls look like sexed up models.




IIRC we all followed the saying: "Don't judge a book by it's cover". I'm sorry but why the hell are we neglecting that now? I'm not going to judge Dan Didio's Outsiders by it's cover I'm going to judge it by it's writing which I'm all too convinced by how it's crap considering the stories written. So because we want new readers we should do just that? 

Psylocke shows off her skin and yet I don't hear people belittling her.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 3, 2011)

Oh, Starfire.

Nothing is ever practical about her attire.


----------



## Bender (Aug 3, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Oh, Starfire.
> 
> Nothing is ever practical about her attire.



I'm on the bench regarding Starfire. Whenever she's around it always has to do with her wanting to cling to Dick Grayson.

I like her cartoon incarnation a lot more cuz she made me laugh with her funny alien customs and stories she tells the Titans about.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 3, 2011)

Bender said:


> Huh, and yet alot of mature audiences saw them. I mean seriously though bro saying that she needs pants to attract mature readers makes zero sense. I mean Emma Frost wears a fucking corset and yet there are plenty of older X-men readers. I recall a while ago when I was attending Summer school my bus driver (a family man) said he has no problem with how she looks.



There's not plenty of older X men readers, there's not plenty of X men readers period, there's not even plenty of comic readers. Thats the whole point of this reboot. DC needs more readers, and to do that they need to cater to people who don't read comic books. And to people who don't read comic books, a lot of female costumes are ridiculous. 

I remember I was reading green lantern in public and somebody called me out on how slutty star sapphire was. I was embarrassed because there was really no answer for it other than "Yea its pretty sad". 

Do you really think its mature for the guys be be wearing full body costumes while most of the girls are slutted up?



> You mean about the fact she's not wearing pants? No I don't think they'll care much cuz if they did we'd be hearing more from them before this design crisis even began.



That's the point. Girls don't care about comics because they don't read comics. You'd think that DC would want to change that.



> IIRC we all followed the saying: "Don't judge a book by it's cover". I'm sorry but why the hell are we neglecting that now? I'm not going to judge Dan Didio's Outsiders by it's cover I'm going to judge it by it's writing which I'm all too convinced by how it's crap considering the stories written. So because we want new readers we should do just that?



We try to follow that, but nobody really does. Everyone judges based on what they see, and for a new reader to pick up a comic book, they have to have a positive reaction to the cover.

I'm not saying that WW having no pants will automatically cause people to not read it, just that it might not be a step in the right direction.



> Psylocke shows off her skin and yet I don't hear people belittling her.



That's because the only people who even know who psylocke is are comic fans, who have accepted the slutty costumes as just part of the industry.

I just don't see how you can see it as not ridiculous. I mean what actual girl would be like "Hey I don't need pants anymore, im a superhero now!"


----------



## Bender (Aug 3, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> There's not plenty of older X men readers, there's not plenty of X men readers period, there's not even plenty of comic readers. Thats the whole point of this reboot. DC needs more readers, and to do that they need to cater to people who don't read comic books. And to people who don't read comic books, a lot of female costumes are ridiculous.



I'm gonna have to disagree. IMO, X-men readers are higher than that of any DC books. Also all this for a raise in sale they're going to change the appearance of a female character? 




> I remember I was reading green lantern in public and somebody called me out on how slutty star sapphire was. I was embarrassed because there was really no answer for it other than "Yea its pretty sad".



The same can be said for any type of female character. Back when DBZ was hot I was crushing mad on Android #18 and when I was reading a pojo DBZ guide book my parents + sister were teasing me on her bobbed forehead. Heck even the concept of a female character being sexually appealing was funny. Heck, a cartoon being made serious you can find a crack in it and make fun of it. For instance, Identity Crisis they tried so hard to make it a tragic controversial tale yet all they managed to do was screw up and ruin an old golden age character.




> Do you really think its mature for the guys be be wearing full body costumes while most of the girls are slutted up?



I'm not saying they should slut up the girls I'm merely suggesting she stick to her origin rather then change it for the sake of the "grim dark look" and boost in sales. There's a way of making her sexually appealing and to be taken seriously at the same time. For instance, Lara Croft from Tomb Raider is a shorts wearing gal and shows off some skin and yet she's still able to be taken seriously.



> That's the point. Girls don't care about comics because they don't read comics. You'd think that DC would want to change that.



Girls don't read comics because it doesn't interest them all that much lately. In other words not a lot of good writing. Also there's the whole dropping bridges on good characters. I'm sure girl readers would want to head for the hills if writing was as bad as it is now. If Batgirl stories were able to follow the same flow as the ones starring Barbara Gordon I'm sure we would have more female readers.

That plus action. Cassandra Cain stories attracted more male readers because of how much ass she kicked while Barbara was a more feminine type and incredibly articulate. I'm curious to know as to why they couldn't perform splendidly with Stephanie still in the role of Batgirl.




> We try to follow that, but nobody really does. Everyone judges based on what they see, and for a new reader to pick up a comic book, they have to have a positive reaction to the cover.



Then we as readers should do DC a favor and try and get our friends/girlfriends or boyfriends/fams interested in the book. 

Not only that there's the need to advertise more. IIRC some years Shonen Jump did that with their book and sales for it were booming.



> I'm not saying that WW having no pants will automatically cause people to not read it, just that it might not be a step in the right direction.



I never insisted that you were but I'm merely saying that even now people are still familiar with who the hell is who and seeing Wondy with these pants is a whole lot of 0.o considering they won't know who the hell she is. Readers are not dumb (well kind of) but even they won't tell who Wondy is if you give her this new look.



> That's because the only people who even know who psylocke is are comic fans, who have accepted the slutty costumes as just part of the industry.



It's not just comic fans there's also video game fans as well as comic book fans.



> I just don't see how you can see it as not ridiculous. I mean what actual girl would be like "Hey I don't need pants anymore, im a superhero now!"



WW doesn't need the pants because she's a demi-goddess type of person and not anyone with the natural type of hindrances as a normal being. Her origin is a lot different than Superman and Baman as well. Her standards of living as well as those of her people are as well. It's because she wants to show off her beauty and doesn't believe in hiding behind the clothes of those of man's world. Anyone familiar with mythology would know that they didn't need to rely so heavily on armor for protection.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 3, 2011)

I'm not really focusing on Wonder Woman because she's wonder woman, im focusing on her because to the general public she is THE female superhero.

Yes, her mythological origin should influence her clothing, but for someone who doesn't read comics (and maybe doesn't even know wonder woman has a mythological origin) the lack of pants isn't really a selling point.

If anything they should give her an armored skirt of some sort. While its true greek warriors didn't wear pants, they didn't just fight in their underwear either.


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## Guy Gardner (Aug 3, 2011)

I'm honestly surprised that wasn't Hal Jordan's first costume until Kilowog told him to put on pants.


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## Bender (Aug 3, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> If anything they should give her an armored skirt of some sort. While its true greek warriors didn't wear pants, they didn't just fight in their underwear either.



Ahem


*Spoiler*: __ 








And of course there's uber badass Kratos




If they want things to be taken seriously they should take my advice and sign off on the gay no-killing rule for insanely powerful threats.


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## Taleran (Aug 3, 2011)

Wonder Woman can't become those characters because there is MORE to her than mindless bloodshed.

Sorry your logic is inherently flawed.


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## Whimsy (Aug 3, 2011)

Didn't they wear a sort of battle skirt thingy? Like this:



Edit: sorry, that's fucking enormous


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## Bender (Aug 3, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Wonder Woman can't become those characters because there is MORE to her than mindless bloodshed.



Kratos? Yes

King Leonidas and the mighty 300 no. They had their priorities straight while Kratos repeatedly had his head up his ass something his enemies frequently mentioned.

EDIT:

@Whimsy

Yeah they occasionally did.


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## Whimsy (Aug 3, 2011)

The 300 is not necessarily historically accurate though


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## Guy Gardner (Aug 3, 2011)

Whimsy said:


> The 300 is not necessarily historically accurate though



It's about as accurate as calling the German Invasion of Russia a "regional skirmish".


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## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 3, 2011)

Bender said:


> Ahem
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



Right, I want wonder woman to be taken seriously, not considered a joke like the spartans from 300. The whole movie was just Snyder/Miller taking a bath in testosterone. And of course, it isn't historically accurate by any means.

Not that its not a fun movie, but its still really hard to take at all seriously.

As for Kratos, its hard for me to say anything positive about him without completely ignoring the 2nd and 3rd games.

But you still haven't answered my question. Do you really think it sends a good image to non comic readers to have the entire justice league wearing full body armor while the one female has panties and a tube top? Keep in mind, many non comic readers have no idea that Wonder Woman is a mythological superhero.


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## Whimsy (Aug 3, 2011)

I'll answer that for you

no it doesn't, it makes comics look juvenile and aimed straight at sexually frustrated adolescent nerdlings


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## Taleran (Aug 3, 2011)

Miller does do my absolute favorite Wonder Woman in DK2

Second would be Kelly & Manke in their JLA


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## Petes12 (Aug 3, 2011)

Wonder Woman is not Kratos, bender. Not even close.

Also not sure anyone noticed but greeks do wear full clothing today in the modern era.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 3, 2011)

Whimsy said:


> I'll answer that for you
> 
> no it doesn't, it makes comics look juvenile and aimed straight at sexually frustrated adolescent nerdlings



Exactly. 

And despite the movies, that is still a huge stigma when it comes to comic books, and that stigma needs to go away if they're going to attract new readers in ways besides referrals from current readers.


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## Taleran (Aug 3, 2011)

The movies do not purge that stigma.


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## Bender (Aug 3, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Right, I want wonder woman to be taken seriously, not considered a joke like the spartans from 300. The whole movie was just Snyder/Miller taking a bath in testosterone. And of course, it isn't historically accurate by any means.



How the hell were the Spartans considered a joke? They're the reason that the Persian army lost all taste for combat valor.







> But you still haven't answered my question. Do you really think it sends a good image to non comic readers to have the entire justice league wearing full body armor while the one female has panties and a tube top? Keep in mind, many non comic readers have no idea that Wonder Woman is a mythological superhero.



You have got to be kidding me? Plenty of people know that WW isn't from the modern world. I mean who would dress like that if they weren't from the modern world with any high pieces of technology. Also it's not about sending a message it's about giving them a good story to read and nothing but that. 




> The 300 is not necessarily historically accurate though



No freakin kidding. I'm merely using that a reference cuz it's my favorite rendition of greek myth flicks.

Frank Miller-

"The inaccuracies, almost all of them, are intentional. I took those chest plates and leather skirts off of them for a reason. I wanted these guys to move and I wanted 'em to look good. I knocked their helmets off a fair amount, partly so you can recognize who the characters are. Spartans, in full regalia, were almost indistinguishable except at a very close angle. Another liberty I took was, they all had plumes, but I only gave a plume to Leonidas, to make him stand out and identify him as a king. I was looking for more an evocation than a history lesson. The best result I can hope for is that if the movie excites someone, they'll go explore the histories themselves. Because the histories are endlessly fascinating."

If anything this movie:



is the more historical account  of the Battle of Thermopylae.





			
				Petes12 said:
			
		

> Also not sure anyone noticed but greeks do wear full clothing today in the modern era.



K but WW isn't a modern era person. Yes, she resides in it but her world is entirely different than that of Supes and Batman.


But ya know if making WW wear pants is your idea of attracting mature fine. I'm just


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## typhoon72 (Aug 3, 2011)

The market is out there. Hell, if you could get some of the people who just read manga over to comics it would be a huge increase in sales.

Also about Wondy's panties/no panties debate there is more to it then one being more mature than the other. Wonder Woman having pants could bring in more female readers, but if her book still sucks then it really is a moot point to begin with. New readers may come for the pants, but they stay for the story.


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## Taleran (Aug 3, 2011)

The American manga market isn't that much bigger, the manga boom isn't as big as it once was also I think the Manga market is more colored online by people who pirate over buy.

Also I have a feeling the markets already overlap as much as they will.


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## Bender (Aug 3, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> The market is out there. Hell, if you could get some of the people who just read manga over to comics it would be a huge increase in sales.



Exactly.

Nowadays people are nut deep in manga than they are comics. Also considering what I see in anime/manga I'd hardly call WW panties look the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.


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## gabzilla (Aug 3, 2011)

I don't see the problem with WW's shorts as long as they are - you know - shorts and not a thong.


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## Bender (Aug 3, 2011)

Not just piracy, but we got Amazon.com prices for manga graphic novels at sweet amount such as $3, $5,$7 (+shipping 2/3.99 or such) yeah the manga industry has a good thing going on atm over the comic book industry.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 3, 2011)

Bender said:


> How the hell were the Spartans considered a joke? They're the reason that the Persian army lost all taste for combat valor.



The spartans weren't a joke. The movie interpretation of them kinda was though. Could just be me though. I consider 300 to be an action/comedy because of how over the top it is. Its like the latest rambo movie.



> You have got to be kidding me? Plenty of people know that WW isn't from the modern world. I mean who would dress like that if they weren't from the modern world with any high pieces of technology. Also it's not about sending a message it's about giving them a good story to read and nothing but that.



Dude most people just think of wonder woman as "the female superman"

And saying story is all that matters is naive. Look at Tony Daniel's Batman vs. Scott Snyder's detective comics. Which one has the better story? Now another question, which one has more sales?

"Batman" is a more high profile book than "detective comics". Thankfully, DC is making the right move by switching them.

And then of course there's:

"Hey person who doesn't read comics, check out this awesome batman story by this awesome writer"
"No thanks, comics are lame"

Comics have a lot of great story, no arguments there, but so many people just aren't aware of it.



typhoon72 said:


> Stories should become more self contained and progressive as well. Arguing over near irrelevant things like Wonder Woman showing her ass or not is the small stuff. If the stories still suck and don't seem to matter in the long run anyway then what really is the point of buying it? Every run on a character should matter. The reader should feel like they are buying a comic that matters, if they feel the books are bullshit they won't buy. DC got themselves too comfortable, favoring certain books over others and letting others rot. Now they are paying for it.
> 
> Half-assing books, sponging off of characters, and being to afraid to change is what got them into this mess to begin with.



This is all obvious, and hopefully by streamlining the books and trying to retell them for modern audiences it'll get better.

Honestly, it all hinges on whether or not this reboot will deliver on what DC is saying. Of course, it probably wont though.

I will say that while Wonder Woman's pants is small stuff, I think the overall presentation of the books is definitely nothing to wave off. A good story is great, but non comic readers aren't going to be like "Woah this got great reviews online and this writer is great, im going to check this out!"

A lot of it is just going to be judging a book at a glance, and that needs to be positive for new readers to pick up the book.


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## typhoon72 (Aug 3, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> This is all obvious, and hopefully by streamlining the books and trying to retell them for modern audiences it'll get better.
> 
> Honestly, it all hinges on whether or not this reboot will deliver on what DC is saying. Of course, it probably wont though.
> 
> ...



It is obvious, but none of it is going to happen. Sure, people will be shallow and buy certain comics because the cover looks nice or the character looks cool but again that's all smoke and mirrors. So if that is all this reboot has going for it, the silver age characters and the 'new and hip' Xtreme costumes, it is going to end up a short term fix inevitably turning out the same way it did before. A few books do well, but most of them being shit.

It may look different on the outside but its the same ol shit on the inside; and that's what needs to be changed.


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## Bender (Aug 3, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> The spartans weren't a joke. The movie interpretation of them kinda was though. Could just be me though. I consider 300 to be an action/comedy because of how over the top it is. Its like the latest rambo movie.



Rambo sucks plain and simple. Same with Sylvester Stallone's washed up ass IMO. Probably kinda is you. Anyone I ask about the movie is clearly aware of that but some aspects of the film although a tad modifications to the stories are aware of the true version but like this one just as much. Because the spartans went kicking and screaming in the finale of Thermopylae they decided to change it up. 




> Dude most people just think of wonder woman as "the female superman"



Considering how she's basically the gender opposite that it a pretty simple interpretation of her. 



> And saying story is all that matters is naive. Look at Tony Daniel's Batman vs. Scott Snyder's detective comics. Which one has the better story? Now another question, which one has more sales?



None of my fam have read Tony Daniel's Bat but have Batman Under the Hood. My cuz loved the story and action in it. Also my bus driver from summer school also loved Final Crisis along with the story that took place before Batman R.I.P. Also story is what matters after all the book wouldn't be getting the high sales if it had a crap story. I sincerely doubt people are buying it because they like the art. Anyone who does have thought otherwise (looking at people who bought Batman Hush). I praise Snyder for making Dick Grayson look good I really do. I'm not even going to pit them against each other. I'm saying it's good that good storytelling is an essential. Hell IIRC it's thanks to Tony Daniel and previous stories that Scott Snyder has such a good plate to work with in Detective Comics.

If story wasn't the only thing that mattered and we wanted only and designs to matter then we'd be looking at a mess similar to Ultimate Marvel's Ultimatum event. How razed was the ultimate universe after that little spectacle?




> "Hey person who doesn't read comics, check out this awesome batman story by this awesome writer"
> "No thanks, comics are lame"
> 
> Comics have a lot of great story, no arguments there, but so many people just aren't aware of it.



Then maybe they need to be PROMOTED better? The Green Lantern movie was promoted the hell out of and yet looking at the box office it sucked butt.




> This is all obvious, and hopefully by streamlining the books and trying to retell them for modern audiences it'll get better.



Probably. Or you know they can instead present handbook guides on the most important figures in the DCU and have them online? Not like that shit from 52 but better. There's more than 3 pages in each individual heroes introductory. Rather the same number as your regular DC comic book.




> A good story is great, but non comic readers aren't going to be like "Woah this got great reviews online and this writer is great, im going to check this out!"



That's exactly why I recommend doing better story telling. Good story telling=good reviews. 



> A lot of it is just going to be judging a book at a glance, and that needs to be positive for new readers to pick up the book.



Yeah, and we'll have something similar to Ultimate Marvel's Ultimatum.


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## The Pink Ninja (Aug 3, 2011)

Why the fuck is it that DC, an actual multi-million dollar business owned by an even bigger media company struggles to come to conclusions and realise things I have seen dozens upon dozens of members of the fandom say?


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## Petes12 (Aug 3, 2011)

What is it specifically you're talking about?


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## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 3, 2011)

Bender said:


> None of my fam have read Tony Daniel's Bat but have Batman Under the Hood. My cuz loved the story and action in it. Also my bus driver from summer school also loved Final Crisis along with the story that took place before Batman R.I.P. Also story is what matters after all the book wouldn't be getting the high sales if it had a crap story. I sincerely doubt people are buying it because they like the art. Anyone who does have thought otherwise (looking at people who bought Batman Hush). I praise Snyder for making Dick Grayson look good I really do. I'm not even going to pit them against each other. I'm saying it's good that good storytelling is an essential. Hell IIRC it's thanks to Tony Daniel and previous stories that Scott Snyder has such a good plate to work with in Detective Comics.



Good story is essential, but its not the only thing that matters when looking at it from a business perspective. To say otherwise is foolish and naive.

Promotion matters, but so does presentation, especially when trying to get new readers.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 3, 2011)

So the Grounded Superman storyline finally ends.

It ended on a pathetic whimper.


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## Rod (Aug 4, 2011)

Being honest my friends, this whole discussion feels like these situations when you for whatever reason happen to look back some years after, you stop to think about it again and concludes the following: "rofl...how could've I done that, lol"

I mean shorts, pants, briefs, boxers, pajamas, or whatever.... under serious arguments...


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## LIL_M0 (Aug 4, 2011)

Rod said:


> Being honest my friends, this whole discussion feels like these situations when you for whatever reason happen to look back some years after, you stop to think about it again and concludes the following: "rofl...how could've I done that, lol"
> 
> I mean shorts, pants, briefs, boxers, pajamas, or whatever.... under serious arguments...



Yeah. I always thought it was rather stupid to be on either side of that argument.


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## Petes12 (Aug 4, 2011)

I find it hard to not argue against people who are vehemently for nostalgia just for nostalgia's sake


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## Parallax (Aug 4, 2011)

yeah

but this is over pants

you all should be ashamed of yourselves


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## ghstwrld (Aug 4, 2011)

Because character design isn't a key part of comic books anymore?

please


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## Petes12 (Aug 4, 2011)

its also kinda an issue of how DC handles their female characters on the whole.


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## Bender (Aug 4, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> So the Grounded Superman storyline finally ends.
> 
> It ended on a pathetic whimper.



*Not in the least bit surprised*


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## Slice (Aug 4, 2011)

No matter the writing, storys, advertising and stuff like that comic books will always be judged as "nerd stuff".


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## Taleran (Aug 4, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> So the Grounded Superman storyline finally ends.
> 
> It ended on a pathetic whimper.



We must have completely different expectations for a Superman ending because that was fucking perfect.

Also the last page was perfect.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 4, 2011)

I kind of expected something else other than 'that' kind of ending.

For me, the entire storyline wasn't anything terribly new, despite the potential of its premise.

Maybe because the story seemed uneven to me. JMS backing off from its script writing, after all.


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## Petes12 (Aug 4, 2011)

it was corny and bad


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## Taleran (Aug 4, 2011)

No u are corny and bad


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## Parallax (Aug 4, 2011)

No it was pretty eh

I'm glad that turd is over


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## Whimsy (Aug 5, 2011)

Lol


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## Banhammer (Aug 5, 2011)

Nobody gets pants except for wonder woman


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## gabzilla (Aug 5, 2011)

Whimsy said:


> Lol



So hot


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## Petes12 (Aug 5, 2011)

is it just me or did the artist draw them as though they all shave their legs except batman?


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## tari101190 (Aug 5, 2011)

Wonder Woman looks rediculous.

Her 1st new costume with trousers (pants) was fine besides the jacket. I saw some articles about woman in DC. I need to read them again. They're not getting it right. She's a amazon warrior/soldier. I doubt they would look or pose like that in real life.

She's in skimpy bikini bottoms and a top just about covering her nipples. My friend wrote an essay about Woman in Comics talking about how rediculous she looked, but she was made in a different era. When we heard about this 'revamp for the new generation 21st century' we thought she would look more apprpriate. 

She did have trousers originally, but now it's been changed. I'm guessing because of fans saying she didn't look the same, although those are the very same fans DC is planning on 'ignoring' for the purpose of this revamp so I'm confused.

Flashpoint Wonder Woman looked pretty good, so a toned down version of that would be fine. Greek/Roman skirt with would have been more authentic too. And chest armour...covering her chest would make more sense.

I guess main target audience are expected to like that sort of thing, but I would have thought DC had more integrity than that. Comics seem to get away with stuff like this since it's details are basically unknown unless you're interested in comics, which I'm guesing most people are not. I guess some would say it's not a big deal, but I feel it is atleast. Not sure what others think about it. Really want to know what girls think about it. Doesn't seem like it's aimed at girls at all, maybe it's not meant to be. I'm gonna search for the 'Woman on DC' articles and maybe write a message on some DC site.

Would shorts upto mid-thigh be too much? Too covered up, too little showing? Adding a


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## MrChubz (Aug 5, 2011)

Sorts up to mid-thigh? If you want her to dress like girls choose to dress she should wear booty-shorts with something written on the back like, "booyah!," or "ENVY" or something like that. Instead of bitching about something useless like Wonder Woman's dress, bitch about something useful like Wally West getting left out of his own book.


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## Nightblade (Aug 6, 2011)

> Wonder Woman looks rediculous.


she looks great in the unlettered Chang art for #1. Lee and Finch just suck.


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## typhoon72 (Aug 6, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Sorts up to mid-thigh? If you want her to dress like girls choose to dress she should wear booty-shorts with something written on the back like, "booyah!," or "ENVY" or something like that. Instead of bitching about something useless like Wonder Woman's dress, bitch about something useful like Wally West getting left out of his own book.



^ I cosign this.


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## tari101190 (Aug 6, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Sorts up to mid-thigh? If you want her to dress like girls choose to dress she should wear booty-shorts with something written on the back like, "booyah!," or "ENVY" or something like that. Instead of bitching about something useless like Wonder Woman's dress, bitch about something useful like Wally West getting left out of his own book.


I did not mention in any way I want Wonder Woman to dress like you described. Your view of sexually suggestive clothing or anything like that seems to be very different to what I believe. If you bothered to read my post you would know I am against her looking like that. Don't 'put words into my mouth'.

If you don't care about something don't go around saying it's a useless as if anything you care about is more important. Your opinions mean nothing, what you say means nothing to me like you mean nothing to me. You can have your own opinions, fine, but you dare talk like you are in away better or what you think is better than someone else.

I don't care about Flash or Wally, if you care about that, that's your business. I'm not arrogant enough to tell you to stop whining about it and think about what I deem more important. Learn to have some respect for others and their opinions.

Comics are all about image as well as characters and story. You mention Wally because you enjoy his character and story and feel it's been ruined since he's left out. That makes him just as messed up as Wonder Woman costume, and anybody has the right to complain like you are. You don't like the comics cos Wally is not in them, I can not like the comics cos of the way a character is portrayed or looks.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Aug 6, 2011)

I like my Female DC Comic Heroines running around saving mankind naked its the only way to serve and protect... LMAO


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## Petes12 (Aug 6, 2011)

I think you're overreacting tari.

Fuck Wally though


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## ghstwrld (Aug 6, 2011)

No, tari isn't.

It's already been mentioned many times now: text-based discussion is perfectly capable of holding two or more conversations simultaneously.  If you find yourself in the position where the discussion at hand doesn't hold your interest, keep it steppin' and talk about stuff that does so.  Trying to derail it and shitting on other posters' contributions is totally unnecessary.


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## Petes12 (Aug 6, 2011)

Didnt say I disagreed but there's no need for the mudslinging.


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## tari101190 (Aug 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Didnt say I disagreed but there's no need for the mudslinging.


Wonder Womans costume and portrayal of women in comics is a subject i'm interested in, but I was only posting like that in response to that guys unnecessarily rude post to me.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 6, 2011)

Anybody else catch the end to Secret Six? Hope we'll see them again in the DCnU.

Love the butch and sundance style ending though.


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## Petes12 (Aug 6, 2011)

Ive been trying to find villains united so i can reread the whole story.


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## ghstwrld (Aug 6, 2011)

I wouldn't mind something like this:





It's from the popular manga-inspired WW pitch from a couple of years ago, the one before Ben Caldwell's.  It does clash with the other looks, but that's always been one of DC's best qualities.  Even with Geoff Johns trying to come up with believable explanations for absolutely everything, their stuff is still a patchwork of totally random and incongruous parts.


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## Glued (Aug 6, 2011)

Just make up some bullshit that Uncle Sam banged Hippolyta during WWII and be done with it.


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## Whimsy (Aug 8, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> I wouldn't mind something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I could actually see that working

But the nerdlingers would come out in force because they wouldn't get to see drawn tittays and ass


----------



## Nicodemus (Aug 8, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> I wouldn't mind something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's not bad. It's a step in the right direction. See, if DC was smart they'd give us something like that or this: 

But instead WW gets to charge into battle looking like some kind of hooker.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 8, 2011)

This is my favorite Wonder Woman costume.



Her costume works when it is ICONIC. I mean she is supposed to be more than your Kratos or Average Greek hero she is a SUPER HERO.

However I do think the best time they have to do a major change to it is right now with the reboot.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 8, 2011)

Goodbye Batfamily, hello Batinternship

What the fuck


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 8, 2011)

> The DCnU: Replacing and devaluing my generations heroes since 2011.
> 
> Robin’s aren’t superheroes any more - they’re just interns.
> 
> ...



The DCNU: Driving away fans and alienating people since 2011 : /


----------



## Parallax (Aug 8, 2011)

who cares about that one female Robin who was there for like 2 weeks

the rest of that outline sounds like fanboy ranting


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 8, 2011)

The only change to the batfamily is Barbara's become Batgirl again. And Dick's Nightwing again but obviously his Batman thing was only temporary. 

I mean I guess you could argue its a different story with who the comics are focusing on, since steph doesn't have her own book anymore, or tim other than teen titans, but that's it.


----------



## Bluebeard (Aug 8, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHUMOZkLYEg&feature=feedu[/YOUTUBE]

 The Game of Thrones reviewer. Video is long as hell, but this guy basically is the eptiome of the people who bitch about everything in the reboot.


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 8, 2011)

I actually watched the whole thing, had it on in the background. 

Opinionated but right about a lot of things. lol at the end with the movies, he said Marvel had some shitty movies too but he metioned all the FOX ones .


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 8, 2011)

Long rant.

I wonder what will make him go past the 1 hour mark if he hasn't done it already.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 9, 2011)

Speaking of Wonder Woman from the CA interview with Morrison during SDCC



> I’m working on this Wonder Woman thing that I’ve been doing for years, which was going to be Earth One and I’m sure it’ll end up somewhere with Brian Azzarello doing the new in-continuity Wonder Woman.


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 9, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Speaking of Wonder Woman from the CA interview with Morrison during SDCC


I REALLY would have liked to see Earth One Wonder Woman.

I hope it still comes and isn't just for this new DC series.


----------



## Glued (Aug 9, 2011)

Send Grant Morrison, I will guarantee you, he will make Wondy awesome no matter what she wears.


----------



## Cromer (Aug 9, 2011)

Contrary to popular belief, Morrison DOES have missteps (see his 'X-Men' run), but I'd like to see 12 issues of Wonder Woman by Morrison.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 9, 2011)

his x-men gave us fantomex your argument is invalid, etc. 

I liked most of it.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 9, 2011)

Yeah I mean I think I would rank New X-Men over his Batman mega arc


----------



## Parallax (Aug 9, 2011)

His X Men arc is still the standard in the series so I don't think it's a misstep at all


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 9, 2011)




----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 9, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> It's going to take a while before I get through all five stages of accepting my loss : /


Why? The only time the book was ever good was when it had Damian in it.

*Spoiler*: __ 











These parts were very entertaining but honestly, I'm not gonna miss it. 

Stage one: Denial.


----------



## Bender (Aug 9, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> Why? The only time the book was ever good was when it had Damian in it.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Fuck you DC


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 9, 2011)

Your book shall be missed Steph...hoping DC won't take forever to actually bring you back.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 9, 2011)

> So how do you think one gets into the Robin internship program? Is there a website? Do you need to write an essay? Do you have to submit a video to Human Resources of you kicking in a drug dealer's face and bitterly weeping over the graves of your murdered loved ones? And once you have it, are there opportunities for advancement to a full-time position? Is it a plus on your resume for unpaid vigilantism jobs?



Do you think I could still find a spot? It's two months before I return to uni.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 9, 2011)

Brian Q Miller is working on something for DC I guess.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 9, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> Why? The only time the book was ever good was when it had Damian in it.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Are you kidding me? Damian's guest spot was just the beginning of guest star hilarity in that book. Klarion was a lot funnier.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 9, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Are you kidding me? Damian's guest spot was just the beginning of guest star hilarity in that book. Klarion was a lot funnier.


The only time that book wasn't bad was when Damian was on there. Steph and the rest of her supporting cast are dull and boring characters.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 9, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Are you kidding me? Damian's guest spot was just the beginning of guest star hilarity in that book. Klarion was a lot funnier.



That issue was hilarious...Klarion needs to be a good guy more often.


----------



## Glued (Aug 9, 2011)

I wonder if Shining Knight will be a boy or a girl in the upcoming Demon Knights.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 9, 2011)

girl **


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 9, 2011)

Transgender

And black


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm going to miss this book so much.

Fuck this reboot.



LIL_M0 said:


> The only time that book wasn't bad was when Damian was on there. Steph and the rest of her supporting cast are dull and boring characters.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 9, 2011)

don't let lil mo get you down Gab


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 9, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Send Grant Morrison, I will guarantee you, he will make Wondy awesome no matter what she wears.



I don't know about that one.  GM mostly writes two, maybe three, types of women characters, and none of them really fit WW.  His versions have been some of the worst ones.  The stuff in Final Crisis is the Mona Lisa of back burner bitches.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 9, 2011)

Im guessing his thought process with FC was something like "Hey Darkseid's like SUBMIT and that's what Wonder Woman did all the time when she was first created" So of course she got turned.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 9, 2011)

Parallax said:


> don't let lil mo get you down Gab



That ain't gonna get me down.


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 9, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Im guessing his thought process with FC was something like "Hey Darkseid's like SUBMIT and that's what Wonder Woman did all the time when she was first created" So of course she got turned.



That could have been interesting if it amounted to anything.  For the most part, she's just there, doing nothing of value.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 10, 2011)

What will get is down is the best comic of the last two years ending before its time for no good reason...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 10, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> The only time that book wasn't bad was when Damian was on there. Steph and the rest of her supporting cast are dull and boring characters.





You shut your whore mouth.


----------



## lucky (Aug 10, 2011)

anddd as an aside i think most supporting casts are pretty bad.  like superboy's.  who is that guy with pink frogs.  he's so blah.  lol luthor's neice though... now THAT is an interesting dynamic with superboy.  The pseudo incestuous sexual tension is very japanese manga-esque.  



LIL_M0 said:


> The only time that book wasn't bad was when Damian was on there. Steph and the rest of her supporting cast are dull and boring characters.



concur.  klarion was pretty good too.  

but cass the best i liked her was during her short stint as robin.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 10, 2011)

> The Game of Thrones reviewer.


AW HELL NAW THEY KILLED MY BOY NED


----------



## Slice (Aug 10, 2011)

2 years ago i said "Screw Stephanie, i want Cass to stay as Batgirl" 

Today i don't want Stephanie to go away, her book was so much fun.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 10, 2011)

It's a wonderful double fucking is it not? The reboot kills not only BQM's amazing Batgirl series, it's going to kill DC too.

I mean yeah, they were going to go out of business anyway but it would have been with what, thirty issues of BQM's Batgirl? Fourty? Fifty two?

She'll probably never have the chance to come back, not as a regular and not with writers and artists as good as she has had. When DC goes under WB aren't going to make comics for anyone except household names like Batman and the rest. There won't be room for a minor character like Stephy B.

I hope one day he can finish what he started but right now I feel the lesson is "Don't invest in any unfinished series"


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 10, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> What will get is down is the best comic of the last two years ending before its time for no good reason...



Well, that did get me down.

I need a moment.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 10, 2011)

And the Stephanie Batgirl series ends like the Cassandra Batgirl series. Due to a reboot.

Sigh.


----------



## Slice (Aug 12, 2011)

I hope the Babsgirl series is like 'Batgirl: Year One' in its general tone and style. Loved that book.
And somewhere along the line Steph and Cass will re-appear... i hope 

How does all of this affect Batman Inc.? He used Cass as Blackbat and i guess the new continuity does not - for lack of a better word - "like that". Will she just disappear or will Morisson ignore it and use her anyways forcing the DCnU to acknowledge her existance?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 12, 2011)

I think that Batman Inc is part of the old continuity?

Basically Morrison is too big to cancel, exspecially since this is the end of a plotline he began in what, 06?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2011)

New continuity and old continuity is the same for the batman books. Cass and Steph were both batgirl, Barbara was oracle, Cass is appearing in Batman Leviathan and Steph is supposed to show up in one of the new 52 titles (probably batgirl?)


----------



## Slice (Aug 12, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> New continuity and old continuity is the same for the batman books. Cass and Steph were both batgirl, Barbara was oracle, Cass is appearing in Batman Leviathan and Steph is supposed to show up in one of the new 52 titles (probably batgirl?)



This makes me very happy


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 12, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> New continuity and old continuity is the same for the batman books. Cass and Steph were both batgirl, Barbara was oracle, Cass is appearing in Batman Leviathan and Steph is supposed to show up in one of the new 52 titles *(probably batgirl?)*



Perish the thought.


----------



## Slice (Aug 12, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Perish the thought.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 12, 2011)

I don't want Steph or Cass in Babsgirl book tbh


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2011)

I was just making an educated guess, if they want to do a handoff from steph back to babs on page that'd explain where steph shows up post-FP.

Wouldn't mind seeing them once in a while.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 12, 2011)

Basically nothing could be as good as what BQM showed us in Batgirl 24.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 12, 2011)

Only thing I want to know is how Babs goes back to being Batgirl. She's going to need a very good excuse to take it away from Steph knowing how much it means to her.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2011)

In my mind I've already got it worked out even though it's not really corroborated. But I'm choosing to see it as the batgirl title was sorta given out by Oracle to women who really needed it as a sort of self-redemption and then the title is something they don't really need for themselves once they've moved past their... past.

Almost totally unsupported except that that is why cass gave the costume to steph, to help her deal with her problems. But it works so well for me that it's now canon in my brain :0


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 12, 2011)

I actually don't care. All I will ever think it is "WHY DC WHY" so the specific reason matters little.

The problem is Gail, when first talking about the nw Batgirl, seems to have not realised that for many people Steph is now Batgirl and a major part of Barbara's life so Steph maybe totally absent for many issues.


----------



## Koi (Aug 12, 2011)

Just read the last Batgirl issue.  I just.. I CAN'T.  8'C

I love Steph so much and I stil can't believe this bull(bat?)shittery is going down.  DC, YOU'RE BREAKING MY HEART.


----------



## Slice (Aug 12, 2011)

I am surprised how many fans Steph pulled in.
She is my least favorite Batgirl behind Cass and (back then) Barbara. She's still awesome though - but someone has got to be last.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2011)

Barbara is last


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2011)

^

And your problem with that is? 




Slice said:


> I am surprised how many fans Steph pulled in.
> She is my least favorite Batgirl behind Cass and (back then) Barbara. She's still awesome though - but someone has got to be last.



Barbara bored me silly.

Cassandra Cain had a crapload of depth to her


----------



## Slice (Aug 12, 2011)

Did you read "Batgirl: Year One"?

She is a fine Batgirl and fun to read about - she's just simply 100 times better as Oracle.


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I don't want Steph or Cass in Babsgirl book tbh



Same

Just seems like it'll be messy as fuck with them in the book. And there's a strong possibility they'll be walked all over by Barbara and Didio will order Gail Simone to do something ugly to them.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2011)

Bender said:


> ^
> 
> And your problem with that is?



I'm saying I like barbara the least. 

Granted my only real exposure to her as batgirl in comic form is her year one series...

And that was a good series but man it's a good thing she's keeping her history as oracle because without that she has nothing going for her.


Basically just like Steph had to prove herself as a worthy character to replace Cass, now Barbara has to do the same. I think she's just as unproven as batgirl as steph was when this batgirl series first started.


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2011)

> She is a fine Batgirl and fun to read about - she's just simply 100 times better as Oracle.



Course I read Batgirl Year one. It was somewhat below average in my book. Although I suppose I'm being a bit too critical but when you've already been reading about Steph/Spoiler before Batgirl year one it feels like I've you seen it before.

Cass Cain's story as Batgirl was just incredible and stomped all over Babs.



Aye, I love Babs better as Oracle. Also it's a darn shame that we'll never be able to learn of Morrison's plans for her. In Batman Inc #6 you see her in a digital version of her Batgirl costume.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 12, 2011)

I think a lot of the Babsgirl love comes from the animated series and Batgirl: Year One, which were excellent. Nostalgia is making people think she was this perfect character, but if you read the old comics...

Let's say the old school Babsgirl is a very different character.



Petes12 said:


> In my mind I've already got it worked out even though it's not really corroborated. But I'm choosing to see it as the batgirl title was sorta given out by Oracle to women who really needed it as a sort of self-redemption and then the title is something they don't really need for themselves once they've moved past their... past.
> 
> Almost totally unsupported except that that is why cass gave the costume to steph, to help her deal with her problems. But it works so well for me that it's now canon in my brain :0



Yeah, but then why would Babs go back to being Batgirl after being Oracle? It doesn't make sense. 



Koi said:


> Just read the last Batgirl issue.  I just.. I CAN'T.  8'C
> 
> I love Steph so much and I stil can't believe this bull(bat?)shittery is going down.  DC, YOU'RE BREAKING MY HEART.







Slice said:


> I am surprised how many fans Steph pulled in.
> She is my least favorite Batgirl behind Cass and (back then) Barbara. She's still awesome though - but someone has got to be last.



I liked her before but Miller did an awesome job.

For me is Steph first but Cass is a close second. Though I believe she outgrew Batgirl ages ago, she could be _Batman_ if she wanted to. 



Bender said:


> Same
> 
> Just seems like it'll be messy as fuck with them in the book. And there's a strong possibility they'll be walked all over by Barbara and Didio will order Gail Simone to do something ugly to them.



Yeah, all this "the real Batgirl is back" vibe I'm getting from her makes me wish she doesn't get anywhere near Cass or Steph.


----------



## Slice (Aug 12, 2011)

Fun fact: Barbara has been Oracle longer than she was Batgirl.

And still people associate her with Batgirl more. I blame the 90s movies and animated show.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Yeah, but then why would Babs go back to being Batgirl after being Oracle? It doesn't make sense.


 because marketing 

I'm sure they can make it make sense in story too. 




> Yeah, all the "the real Batgirl is back" vibe I'm getting from her makes me wish she doesn't get anywhere near Cass or Steph.


Honestly I think she's just marketing her new book. She's said pretty often she really likes the other 2 batgirls a lot too. I'm sure she'd be respectful of them if she wrote them, she wanted to bring cass into the BoP cast several times but was never able to.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 12, 2011)

Quite honestly Barbara shouldn't even have gone back to Batgirl in the first place, in my opinion she should have inherited the Batwoman codename and costume...because like Cassandra Babs has outgrown that Batgirl name.

I'm wondering though if this version is going to be taking place in the past as Babs is still supposed to be Oracle in Birds of Prey from what I heard...


----------



## Slice (Aug 12, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I liked her before but Miller did an awesome job.



I know, i was talking in general not only on this board. There was a lot of bitching involved when she took the mantle - but a lot of these people got converted to fans.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2011)

Action and JL are the only ones set in the past.

You know, other than the western and demon knights books because I know someone's gonna nitpick that.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 12, 2011)

Slice said:


> Fun fact: Barbara has been Oracle longer than she was Batgirl.
> 
> And still people associate her with Batgirl more. I blame the 90s movies and animated show.



Blame the marketing. Search for Batgirl T-shirt and call me when you get a result with Cass or Steph.

All the Batboys have been animated, yet the only Batgirl that gets featured in other media is... Barbara. A de-aged Barbara.



Petes12 said:


> because marketing
> 
> I'm sure they can make it make sense in story too.



We'll see. One way they could do it is if Cass or Steph were temporary Batgirls because Babs' injury wasn't that severe and she only needed time to recover. Though that would shit all over their backstories.

Cass is safer because right now she's not Batgirl and she has her own name. Steph? Not so much. Unless they injure her so she can't be Batgirl anymore.



Petes12 said:


> Honestly I think she's just marketing her new book. She's said pretty often she really likes the other 2 batgirls a lot too. I'm sure she'd be respectful of them if she wrote them, she wanted to bring cass into the BoP cast several times but was never able to.



Yeah... I'll believe it when I see it. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and yada yada.



Emperor Joker said:


> Quite honestly Barbara shouldn't even have gone back to Batgirl in the first place, in my opinion she should have inherited the Batwoman codename and costume...because like Cassandra Babs has outgrown that Batgirl name.



Well, we know they are not going to retcon Kate since she's 1) popular 2) a minority and 3) they use her as a diversity tool.

...which didn't stop them from getting rid of Oracle. But I digress.



Emperor Joker said:


> I'm wondering though if this version is going to be taking place in the past as Babs is still supposed to be Oracle in Birds of Prey from what I heard...



No, Babs was shot, became Oracle, recovered and then went back to being Batgirl.



Slice said:


> I know, i was talking in general not only on this board. There was a lot of bitching involved when she took the mantle - but a lot of these people got converted to fans.



Oh, believe me, I remember. Some people are still bitching about it.


----------



## Slice (Aug 12, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> All the Batboys have been animated, yet the only Batgirl that gets featured in other media is... Barbara. A de-aged Barbara.



Thats another thing i am a bit worried about.
I prefer Dick and Barbara in their late 20s nearing their 30s. Its easier for me to relate to them then. 

Also right now she is way more attractive than yet another teenage superhero.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 12, 2011)

Slice said:


> Thats another thing i am a bit worried about.
> I prefer Dick and Barbara in their late 20s nearing their 30s. Its easier for me to relate to them then.
> 
> Also right now she is way more attractive than yet another teenage superhero.



It just bothers me that they de-age her all the time :/


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2011)

I always thought of them as mid-20s already.

Comic characters are generally static in age unless they're under 18 or whatever, that doesn't bother me.


----------



## Slice (Aug 12, 2011)

Especially in the Bat-books it is difficult to build a believable timeline. When you look at it and try to add realism Bruce should be nearing 50 now since Dick was the boy wonder like 15 years ago and he was running solo a long time before that.

The addition of several Robins and Batgirls does not make it any better.


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> It just bothers me that they de-age her all the time :/



Babs as 22 and still Batgirl is slightly disturbing.

22 hardly enough to count as "girl"

If so then they should've named her Batwoman and killed off that other Batwoman (forget her name).

If anything 17 is a better age for her to be Batgirl.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2011)

Heh but she graduated college early! So she could be like 20 anyway now. Bit young but whatever. 

And hey, batwoman's pretty awesome.

edit: and there's really no point in giving her back her legs at all unless its to be batgirl. she doesnt have name recognition as batwoman.


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Heh but she graduated college early! So she could be like 20 anyway now. Bit young but whatever.







> And hey, batwoman's pretty awesome.



Very awesome 

Tad shame we never see her as often.

on the subject of Bruce's age I think I recall him mentioning he was in his 30s or 40's.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2011)

He's supposed to be 33 right now, dunno about the DCnU


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 12, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Heh but she graduated college early! So she could be like 20 anyway now. Bit young but whatever.
> 
> And hey, batwoman's pretty awesome.
> 
> *edit: and there's really no point in giving her back her legs at all unless its to be batgirl. she doesnt have name recognition as batwoman.*



I disagree. Walking =/= Batgirl just like Wheelchair =/= Oracle.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2011)

Put it this way. The trade off for making her 'not oracle the wheelchair hero' which is something really strong is that they can cash in her being batgirl which is more recognizable to the public. If she isn't going to be batgirl she might as well remain oracle, and remain a handicap icon or however you want to put it.

Making her batwoman doesn't really make sense to me...


----------



## Koi (Aug 12, 2011)

Slice said:


> Did you read "Batgirl: Year One"?
> 
> She is a fine Batgirl and fun to read about - she's just simply 100 times better as Oracle.


Basically this is how I feel.  I don't dislike her as Batgirl, but I feel like she REALLY shines as Oracle.  She's absolutely invaluable when she's Oracle-- not that Batgirl is disposable, but others have proven that they can take up that mantle just about as effectively whereas not many have shown the level of proficiency she has as Oracle.  Plus I just kinda thought Cass, and Steph especially, were more fun to read about in the cowl.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 12, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Put it this way. The trade off for making her 'not oracle the wheelchair hero' which is something really strong is that they can cash in her being batgirl which is more recognizable to the public. If she isn't going to be batgirl she might as well remain oracle, and remain a handicap icon or however you want to put it.
> 
> Making her batwoman doesn't really make sense to me...



I wouldn't make her Bat-anything, to be honest. She wasn't under Batman's shadow anymore.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2011)

Well you'd keep her as oracle wouldn't you?


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 12, 2011)

I would, working legs or not.


----------



## Bender (Aug 13, 2011)

^


Agreed.

The DCU without Oracle I'm curious to see. And by curious I mean how out matched by the villains they would be seeing as how she's help get through multiple disasters. Any type of cyber assaults I wouldn't be surprised by the shitty explanations they give for them being able to get rid of it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 13, 2011)

I'd also like to see a walking oracle. It'd be cool to see her combine ridiculous hacking with the customary bat-skills. And I liked that she was sort of outside the bat family with the birds, sort of like how Dick was with the titans.


----------



## Nightblade (Aug 13, 2011)

Oracle/Batgirl kicking ass on the streets and the web with her batPhone5.


----------



## Cromer (Aug 13, 2011)

The thing is, I had a Bat-timeline worked out in my head where Babs was 2 years older than Dick and 27-28, Bruce was 38-40, and suddenly everything fit. There's a lot of creative compression of course, but it allows you to keep all the good continuity.

Bah.


----------



## Slice (Aug 13, 2011)

Cromer said:


> The thing is, I had a Bat-timeline worked out in my head where Babs was 2 years older than Dick and 27-28, Bruce was 38-40, and suddenly everything fit. There's a lot of creative compression of course, but it allows you to keep all the good continuity.
> 
> Bah.



Do you have it written down anywhere? I would like to read it.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 13, 2011)

Despite ill feelings concerning a walking Barbara, I am interested to see what stories Gail Simone will produce with Batgirl Barbara.


----------



## Bender (Aug 13, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Despite ill feelings concerning a walking Barbara, I am interested to see what stories Gail Simone will produce with Batgirl Barbara.



Not really ill feelings just a quite a great bit of doubt of her reboot status. However, if Gail Simone is on the job then not that much doubt is on my mind of Babs tales. So long as she's not hinted by Didio to take a huge dump on Steph or Cass (which I can't stress enough) then it's cool.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 13, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Despite ill feelings concerning a walking Barbara, I am interested to see what stories Gail Simone will produce with Batgirl Barbara.



Pretty much this, although I'd much rather see a walking oracle in a gail birds book where she was the main focus. Much like how Teen Titans is going to be Tim's book, BoP should have been Bab's book.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 13, 2011)

Cromer said:


> The thing is, I had a Bat-timeline worked out in my head where Babs was 2 years older than Dick and 27-28, Bruce was 38-40, and suddenly everything fit. There's a lot of creative compression of course, but it allows you to keep all the good continuity.
> 
> Bah.



Why do you care at all in Batman comics how old anyone is? Beyond this person is a child, this person is adolescent, young man, middle age, old man.

That is the ONLY distinctions you need to make when reading Superhero comics.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 14, 2011)

Awesome Babs is awesome Babs and Gail is still one of the very best in the biz but still, an important part of her character is rolling away in that wheelchair.

Worse, I can't help but feel the order for the change came from some WB exec.

And that's before we even get to my love for the Batgirl she is replacing


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 14, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Worse, I can't help but feel the order for the change came from some WB exec.
> (



it wasn't gail's idea


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 14, 2011)

I know it wasn't Gail's idea, she made her feeling on the subject perfectly clear numerous times before the reboot. I only wonder if she's a) Doing it because she has to pay the bills and eat or b) If they're going to screw with her character Gail thinks it's better she be there to limit the damage.

Until the reboot was announced pretty much everyone I heard from DC was saying Bab's paralysation and Oracle status were permanent fixtures. That's a big part of what makes me suspect it was an order from outside and above DC.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 14, 2011)

Im not surprised since I read Didio had said once they almost made her batgirl instead of steph. Remember that 'battle for the cowl: the cure' thing?


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 14, 2011)

No one wants to remember The Cure.


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 14, 2011)

Except for the covers


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 14, 2011)

I don't know whether to get _Action _+ _Detective_ or _Superman_ + _Batman_.

_Action_+ _Detective_ sound better to be honest.

But _Batman_ will have James Gordon Jr by Scott Snyder which sounds interesting, which is odd since he was doing detective comics.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 14, 2011)

Just get Action and Batman

problem solved


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 14, 2011)

James Jr. really going to be in Batman? Seems a little soon.


----------



## Bender (Aug 14, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> Except for the covers



 

Yeah they were going to uncripple her in Oracle: The Cure but decided to veto that decision at the last minute.


----------



## Penance (Aug 14, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> James Jr. really going to be in Batman? Seems a little soon.



I'm not surprised...


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 14, 2011)

If Snyder is writing then im reading. If only Jock was illustrating too, then even I would take my broke ass to the store.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 14, 2011)

I've been liking what I've been seeing of the batman art.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 14, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I know it wasn't Gail's idea, she made her feeling on the subject perfectly clear numerous times before the reboot. I only wonder if she's a) Doing it because she has to pay the bills and eat or b) If they're going to screw with her character Gail thinks it's better she be there to limit the damage.
> 
> Until the reboot was announced pretty much everyone I heard from DC was saying Bab's paralysation and Oracle status were permanent fixtures. That's a big part of what makes me suspect it was an order from outside and above DC.



Didio has been itching to get Babs back in the go go boots since forever


----------



## Death Certificate (Aug 15, 2011)

static's costume is starting to grow on me


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 17, 2011)

Honestly its not a very good commercial, but I still think its really cool that they're doing this.


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 17, 2011)

The 30 second one sucked but the extended one was decent. Still, for people who dont read comics anyway its not like they explained why this was a big fucking deal. 

"The New 52", only people who read comics even knows what that even means. Who cares?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 17, 2011)

Yea, the second one was a lot better.

Need less emphasis on "the new 52" and more emphasis on "Relaunch of our biggest heroes done by our best creators" 

And more quotes from legit publications (no offense comic websites) would also help.


----------



## Slice (Aug 17, 2011)

How are they marketing this stuff outside their own books / the internet?
The biggest problem i still see is: How will they reign in new readers when only the old readers actually know this is the 'jumping on' point?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 17, 2011)

Those commercials are going to be on TV and in movie theaters, not just on the interwebs.


----------



## Slice (Aug 17, 2011)

If this succeeds or fails will entirely depend on the marketing plan DC has worked out. They need these new readers because quite a few of the old ones will rage quit because its not "their DC" anymore. I hope the risk is worth it.

And hey, rewatching the 30sec commercial it seems like they still can't decide if they should put Wondy in pants or not


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 17, 2011)

Honestly they should just make Justice League #1 (and possibly Bats, Supes, WW, and GL #1) free to download when it first drops.

Yea, they'd take a hit in sales, even though people will still buy the hard copy issues, but I think it'd be worth it to get new readers.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 17, 2011)

I think the people who say they "Rage Quit" are likely going to still buy things. It's the same reason people who hate Rush Limbaugh tune into him every day: To hate it.


----------



## Nightblade (Aug 17, 2011)

they're going to have ads running in that DC Nation channel in Cartoon Network or something. but yeah, I don't think that's enough. they're not really aggressively marketing this shit.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 17, 2011)

DC Nation programing block isn't till 2012


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 17, 2011)

a 2 minute commercial isnt for tv, they're gonna put that in theaters i bet.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 17, 2011)

They could air the 30s version spot during Young Justice if it ever returns.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 18, 2011)

My eyes


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 18, 2011)

I ought to neg because I'm never to wipe that bloody image from my mind's --

*EEERRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH.

DAMN YOU.*


----------



## Bender (Aug 18, 2011)

@Whimsy

*YOU ASSHOLE YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE!!!!!
*

*MY EYES! YOU'VE DEFILED MY EYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSS!!!!!!
*



*goes to wash eyeballs*


----------



## Optic Frost (Aug 18, 2011)

> They could air the 30s version spot during Young Justice if it ever returns.



It will. The second season will be titled Young Justice: Invasion
(which would most likely begin airing in the first quarter of 2012).


----------



## Whimsy (Aug 18, 2011)

Bwahahaha        .


----------



## Cromer (Aug 19, 2011)

That...that...that...














YOU SUCK.


----------



## Bushido Style (Aug 19, 2011)

The art in Justice League Dark is impressive. 

Link removed

Link removed

Hopefully the story holds up.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 21, 2011)

> Azzarello has been given the duty of reinventing the most iconic female character in the DC library, Wonder Woman.
> 
> And seeing that he's tackled Superman and Batman in past projects for the publisher, how does the scribe feel about completing the Holy Trinity of comic book lore?
> 
> ...


via  

Azzarello on Wonder Woman in DC New 52 interview with coventrytelegraph


----------



## Nightblade (Aug 21, 2011)

doesn't seem to say a whole lot other than the horror bit. still looking forward to it. Cliff Chang is the man. 


Grant Morrison's Wonder Woman




> Grant Morrison appeared at the Edinburgh Book Festival. And Karl Stock was there to report for Bleeding Cool. He writes;
> 
> So, Grant Morrison, when can we expect to see your long, long-awaited Wonder Woman series alongside artist Ethan Van Sciver? “It might be out next year,” he said over the weekend, speaking at the Edinburgh International Book Festival, “or it might not.”
> 
> ...


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 22, 2011)

@Whimsy: Pffft I've seen worse. 

I don't see how the new 52 are going to attract new readers but what do i know 



illmatic said:


> via
> 
> Azzarello on Wonder Woman in DC New 52 interview with coventrytelegraph



...what the fuck


----------



## illmatic (Aug 22, 2011)

New 52 could attract new readers. Probably not as many as DC is hoping for...
\\\\\

Stephine Brown as Batgirl supposedly attracted new readers. 

Looks like DC's last hope is that  new female readers of all ages can provide lots of needed money. 

The YA fiction boom. ~ powered by Women

males being reluctant readers and all I have less hope


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 22, 2011)

illmatic said:


> New 52 could attract new readers. Probably not as many as DC is hoping for...
> \\\\\
> 
> Stephine Brown as Batgirl supposedly attracted new readers.
> ...



But DC doesn't care about those readers 

Stephanie got me back into comics. I'm a hugeeee fan of Power Girl's run too. Such a good book with lovely art


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 22, 2011)

It's too bad Connor can't comfortably keep a monthly schedule. She is pretty awesome.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 22, 2011)

I say they hire her for a miniseries


----------



## Slice (Aug 22, 2011)

I remember reading somewhere that she only ever does 12 issues of a series. A damn shame her art is great.

Gabzilla's Powergirl / Terra pic is pek


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 22, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I say they hire her for a miniseries



She's working on something for DC


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 22, 2011)

Connor is wonderful. No artist gets facial expressions quite like her, and I love the pseudo-cartoonish look.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> She's working on something for DC



I know.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 22, 2011)

I wonder what'll become of Terra in the DCnU. . .


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 22, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I wonder what'll become of Terra in the DCnU. . .



 Probably lost in the Twilight zone.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 22, 2011)

To be fair Terra had already gotten lost in the second half of Peej's series


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 22, 2011)

What second half of Peej's series?

la la la i can't hear you


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 22, 2011)

I wonder if they'll be a Deluxe Edition for Power Girl. . .


----------



## Bushido Style (Aug 22, 2011)

All 52 logos


Most of them look pretty good.


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 22, 2011)

Bushido Style said:


> All 52 logos
> 
> 
> Most of them look pretty good.



The only ones I dont like are the Batman and Captain Atom logos. The Batman logo isnt really that bad I guess its just not for me; and Atom's just looks bland as hell.


----------



## Nightblade (Aug 23, 2011)

"you need a glass of water or something?"
Aquaman's face.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 23, 2011)

The New 52 Set To Rock Marketshare: Justice League #1 Over 200,000 Copies, Six Other Relaunch Books Over 100,000 



> In the short run, it seems everyone in the comic-book industry will benefit. DC?s flagship title ?Justice League No. 1? has pre-orders for more than 200,000 print copies, which would make it the bestselling title of 2011. Six other new DC No. 1?s already have more than 100,000 pre-orders.
> 
> ?Fan interest is huge ? much of it positive, some negative, and some very cautious,? Gladston said.
> 
> But much-hyped events and reboots have boosted comic-book sales before without much long-term effect. Wolfman wrote one of the earliest in 1985 with ?Crisis on Infinite Earths,? which was originally intended to result in every comic book restarting at No. 1, before editors decided against it. Since then, events, crossovers and reboots have become a near annual occurrence for DC and Marvel.



via BleedingCool

lets see the books sustain those numbers


----------



## Bender (Aug 23, 2011)

^

I doubt they will. 

All I know is if this project bombs hard I'll most likely die of laughter.   

But I digress godspeed DC godspeed.


----------



## Cromer (Aug 23, 2011)

Where's the marketing, DC? WHERE'S THE FUCKING MARKETING?


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 23, 2011)

It was obvious the first issues would be successful.

The question is if they can sustain those numbers.

Also, I want to know what the numbers of the _other_ 40+ titles are. You know, the non-Batman ones.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 23, 2011)

I wonder what is the DCnU Question.

Maybe Vic Sage will be alive since he's alive in Flashpoint.

I don't know whether to feel good about that.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 23, 2011)

Pretty sure they said its still montoya


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 23, 2011)

Hmm, maybe buy some DC stock then sell it before they decide to cancel the reboot early next year


----------



## Rod (Aug 24, 2011)

Either way, with the digital thing we won't know for sure, any low sales could easily become excusable by DC's management as being satisfactory via another medium like internet as they pretend, unless it reaches to a point of inevitable cancelation (altough suspect due their blatant tyrant attitude dispalyed: "_non successful books will receive no misericordy"  _looking to me so fake and forced, precisely opposite and try to hold on more with the failing books just for posing misleading of the adversaries as doubts will tend to raise on how to confirm any possible datas if non extra-officially).

So at least in that area, gotta hand it to them, smart move.


----------



## Glued (Aug 24, 2011)

Nightblade said:


> "you need a glass of water or something?"
> Aquaman's face.



I'm seriously hoping Geoff Johns does not let me down.


----------



## Slice (Aug 24, 2011)

Ben can you recommend me a few really good Aquaman stories? I honestly never read anything with him except team ups in other heroes books and need to know some background so i can compare to the post reboot version.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 24, 2011)

Final issue of Wonder Woman leads into New 52 Relaunch


----------



## Cromer (Aug 24, 2011)

Wonder Woman's been surprisingly good since Hester took it on. It's a shame I didn't see anything in the relaunch with his name on it. Plus side, I am cautiously optimistic for Azzarello. At least DC aren't just making a mealy-mouthed 'commitment' to Wonder Woman, but actually putting a big-name creative team behind it. But then again, ven frigging Gail Simone couldn't rescue Wonder Woman...


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 24, 2011)

He really tried to make it work better for her character but the way the whole thing was plotted and then explained was kind of a mess. Which I guess he can't really be blamed for, for the most part. But it just really delved into the weirdly metatextual stuff in a way that didn't make sense in-universe.


----------



## Cromer (Aug 24, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> He really tried to make it work better for her character but the way the whole thing was plotted and then explained was kind of a mess. Which I guess he can't really be blamed for, for the most part. But it just really delved into the weirdly metatextual stuff in a way that didn't make sense in-universe.




Pretty much a good execution of a horribly layed out plot. And I heard Brian Clevinger was up for a book in the relaunch, but got nothing? WHY DC WHY?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 24, 2011)

Well parts of it were well executed by him and parts of it weren't


----------



## Glued (Aug 24, 2011)

Slice said:


> Ben can you recommend me a few really good Aquaman stories? I honestly never read anything with him except team ups in other heroes books and need to know some background so i can compare to the post reboot version.



Grant Morrison's run on JLA.

Peter David's run on Aquaman was freakin awesome. However the 90s run on Aquaman started to lose steam with Erik Larsen. Then lost even more steam with Dan Jurgens.

There is also the 6th volume of Aquaman, which started during 2003. However I must warn you about Aquaman #40 volume 6. Geoff Johns tried to replace Aquaman with a clone of Aquaman. Aquaman fans have put up with a lot, but Geoff went too far with this. Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis got cancelled by #47. Although Geoff Johns says he is an Aquaman fan, we should all try to forget Arthur Joseph, aka Artie Joe.

Aquaman also had a 13 issue run before the Peter David reboot during the early 90s.

My favorite Aquaman storylines include the time he went to Hades to save Poseidon. Kicked Chiron the ferryman right of his boat.

Peter David's best would be Aquaman 22-25 vol 5, where Aquaman assemble his team to defeat an alien invasion. He forces Kordax to commit suicide, nearly drives the entire population to an almost vegetative state, plus he robs the dragon tiamat of all her will.

Oh yeah at one point during the Peter David run, Aquaman actually declares war on Japan. I am not joking. He stops all ships in Japan from leaving the shore. Then he flies a giant floating skull ship into Japan demanding that Japanese hand over the man who murdered the dolphin that raised him as a child.

There are two issues from the Erik Larsen run on Aquaman that like.

The Way out of Towners, where Blubber, Sheeva and Lagoon Boy decide to go on land and pay the surface dwellers a visit.

The other is when Aquaman teams up with Superman to battle the Millenium Giant. This is red energy superman.


Oh yes, even though its Silver Age, I recommend Aquaman Death of A Prince.

Its a collection of several Aquaman comics including the death of his son.


----------



## Rod (Aug 26, 2011)

Did you guys read the GM interview in RS?

He sounds a bit unconfortable about this relaunch, IMO how he'll have to rewrite the possible scripts for the stories he was at the middle of, like INC are the cause.  Suspect this kinda of messed the flow of what he imagined, and not sure if the new stuff will be able to establish final product in same level as before.


----------



## Glued (Aug 26, 2011)

Grant Morrison is invincible, there is nothing he cannot do.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Grant Morrison is invincible, there is nothing he cannot do.



I'd like to believe that he wears a Mr. Miracle costume in his spare time. Also on the topic of people dressing up as New Gods, I think Didio should have dressed up as Darkseid for the relaunch announcement and repeated the Final Crisis #5 Speech. In fact, he should do that all the time.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 26, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I'd like to believe that he wears a Mr. Miracle costume in his spare time. Also on the topic of people dressing up as New Gods, I think Didio should have dressed up as Darkseid for the relaunch announcement and repeated the Final Crisis #5 Speech. In fact, he should do that all the time.



HOLY FUCK YES.

Honestly, most DC fans already see Didio as kind of a dick. Completely owning up to it in the most over the top way possible would be really awesome.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> HOLY FUCK YES.
> 
> Honestly, most DC fans already see Didio as kind of a dick. Completely owning up to it in the most over the top way possible would be really awesome.



Indeed. My original idea for this was for a "Business Ideas That Comics Companies Should Use", where to use the New Gods in any way, you'd have to entire a room with Didio dressed as Darkseid and Paul Levitz dressed as the Highfather. Then you'd have to justify your use to the characters themselves, with the entire atmosphere being as baffling and surreal as possible. You had to finish your pitch before Mark Waid burst in dressed as Orion and tried to kill Didio, at which point Grant Morrison dressed as Mr. Miracle would escort you out.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 27, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> *I'd like to believe that he wears a Mr. Miracle costume in his spare time. *Also on the topic of people dressing up as New Gods, I think Didio should have dressed up as Darkseid for the relaunch announcement and repeated the Final Crisis #5 Speech. In fact, he should do that all the time.



Nonsense.

He wears a Big Barda costume.


----------



## MB99 (Aug 27, 2011)

*Static Shock #1*

Artist and co-writer of the new Static Shock book, Scott McDaniel, has created his own promotional video for Static Shock #1. The video can be viewed at his website or at his youtube account here:

greatest boss ever

Addtionally co-writer John Rozum has posted a preview picture of a new Static villian, Joey "Piranha" Scroccone, on his website here:



Finally i wish to thank Rozum and Mcdaniel for doing more to promote this book in the past few days, than dc has done in the past few months.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 27, 2011)

i really dislike his new costume


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i really dislike his new costume



Me too. The jacket is cool but the design on the spandex is just weak. Other than that the book looks okay.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 27, 2011)

JSA book by James Robinson and Nicola Scott. Supposedly set on earth 2.


----------



## Bender (Aug 27, 2011)

Good lord Static's costume looks goofy and awful as fuck.


----------



## Sephiroth (Aug 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i really dislike his new costume



Agreed, looks awful.


----------



## Gallant (Aug 27, 2011)

I can probably get used to his new costume in time but they could have done better on it. Also the disc he rides on in this is has an awful design.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 27, 2011)

Ditch the spandex please

And why the hell has he moved to generic New York?

I know it's not a huge deal but it leaves a bad taste in the mouth


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 27, 2011)

Gallant said:


> I can probably get used to his new costume in time but they could have done better on it. Also the disc he rides on in this is has an awful design.



It looks so clunky is my problem with it...whatever happened to having a simple design for his disc...


----------



## Parallax (Aug 27, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Ditch the spandex please
> 
> And why the hell has he moved to generic New York?
> 
> I know it's not a huge deal but it leaves a bad taste in the mouth



because black dc superheroes are only allowed to kick it in faux Brooklyn or Harlem like cities


----------



## mali (Aug 27, 2011)

Im definitely not feeling Statics costume


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 27, 2011)

I'm pretty sure GM retconned NYC into the Cinderella City and included lots of proposed but unbuilt architectural projects from masters like Moses and Gaudi.

It's cool in Seven Soldiers, anyway.


----------



## Glued (Aug 27, 2011)

I like Static's new suit, very 90s feel to it.

The 90s, good times.

In fact, I'm going to like this whole reboot seeing how Hawkman is going to become "Brutality has a new Name."


----------



## TheWon (Aug 27, 2011)

Parallax said:


> because black dc superheroes are only allowed to kick it in faux Brooklyn or Harlem like cities



Pretty much this!


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 28, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> I'm pretty sure GM retconned NYC into the Cinderella City and included lots of proposed but unbuilt architectural projects from masters like Moses and Gaudi.
> 
> It's cool in Seven Soldiers, anyway.



Somehow I doubt they'll use that


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 28, 2011)

> Word coming out of Fan Expo is that Dan Didio announced that Stephanie Brown will be in the DCnU as Spoiler. DC also confirmed that James Robinson and Nicola Scott will be doing JSA, which will be set on Earth-2.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Aug 28, 2011)

Guess their can't be 2 batgirls

speaking of which, did barbara heal from her injury or is it as if it never happened?


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 28, 2011)

*grumblegrumblegrumble*

DCnU: Going forward by going backwards!

Hey, at least she exists?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 28, 2011)

I'd like to at least see it made obvious that she was batgirl for a while- like have her new costume basically be the batgirl one, with a different mask and a hood.

and I might have to change my avatar back because while this thor face is hilarious, it's also hard to see well :\


----------



## Parallax (Aug 28, 2011)

Yeah change it back petes


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I'd like to at least see it made obvious that she was batgirl for a while- like have her new costume basically be the batgirl one, with a different mask and a hood.
> 
> and I might have to change my avatar back because while this thor face is hilarious, it's also hard to see well :\



Pretty much what I thought, adding  a couple touches to her exising Batgirl costume would work wonders...and there's no real need to go back to the old Spoiler costume or even make a new one.

also yeah you might want to change your avatar, the scene depicted is too dark to actually see Thor's derp face.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 28, 2011)

Slice is the man. I might still have to change it back later though, I'm really fond of the evil Dr Hurt face


----------



## Parallax (Aug 28, 2011)

I think the Hurt face really sums you up pretty well


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 28, 2011)

The new costume may be designed by Jim Lee.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 28, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The new costume may be designed by Jim Lee.



I'll reserve judgement until I see it, but considering the crappy designs shown all ready, my hopes aren't that high.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 28, 2011)

Could be worse.

It could be Rob Liefeld.


----------



## Penance (Aug 28, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Could be worse.
> 
> It could be Rob Liefeld.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 28, 2011)

Maybe that's the book she'll be showing up in, hawk and dove


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Maybe that's the book she'll be showing up in, hawk and dove



Bite your tongue


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 28, 2011)

It'd give liefeld an outlet for his need to draw pouches!


----------



## Glued (Aug 28, 2011)

Rob Liefield would give her the most awesome gravity defying spine ever along with the world's most dainty feet.

ah the 90s...good times


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 28, 2011)

She'll be a pretty ballerina with no feet.



Petes12 said:


> It'd give liefeld an outlet for his need to draw pouches!



Never enough pouches


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 28, 2011)

never understood the feet complaint, if it were up to me more of his characters's bodies would be blocked out conveniently than just the feet


----------



## Bender (Aug 28, 2011)

@ Gabzilla



Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! 



Parallax said:


> I think the Hurt face really sums you up pretty well



Same


----------



## Mickey Mouse (Aug 28, 2011)

DC is so confusing some times...


----------



## Bender (Aug 28, 2011)

^

No Dan Didio's just unimaginably fail.


----------



## mali (Aug 28, 2011)

VastoLorDae said:


> DC is so confusing some times...



The only things IMO that make it confusing are the crisis's.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 29, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> *grumblegrumblegrumble*
> 
> DCnU: Going forward by going backwards!
> 
> *Hey, at least she exists?*



What I'm taking from it.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 29, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> And why the hell has he moved to generic New York?
> 
> I know it's not a huge deal but it leaves a bad taste in the mouth



I thought it would be a neat idea to spread out the old Dakota City heroes and villains across the East-Coast Megalopolis. I mean, since the DCU does have real-life cities, they kind of need their own heroes. I mean, why wouldn't they? Look at Detroit, which apparently is home to three superheroes in the DCU: John Stewart, Bronze Tiger, and now Cyborg. Gotta spread the love out a little more.

Also, I love the symmetry of Icon having New York City while Superman has Metropolis. It just feels right to me.


----------



## Glued (Aug 29, 2011)

John, Bronze Tiger and Cyborg are all from Detroit.

Why, Detroit?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 29, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> John, Bronze Tiger and Cyborg are all from Detroit.
> 
> Why, Detroit?



Because Detroit makes great superheroes, man.

To be honest, though, we need a few more West Coast superheroes in cities like LA and SF.


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 29, 2011)

.

It's kind of hard to read so someone posted some  at CBR.


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 29, 2011)

I dunno about this one...

That art...its not bad but its not great.


----------



## Penance (Aug 29, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Because Detroit makes great superheroes, man.
> 
> To be honest, though, we need a few more West Coast superheroes in cities like LA and SF.



True, but for every one superhero, there'll be 12 supervillains.  trufax...



ghstwrld said:


> .
> 
> It's kind of hard to read so someone posted some  at CBR.



Ah, retconning ever being permanently paralyzed. That's...one way to go, I guess...


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 29, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> .
> 
> It's kind of hard to read so someone posted some  at CBR.



Meh.

"Batman's Star pupil?" Dick Grayson would like to have a word with you.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 29, 2011)

yeaaaaah I really don't care for character wanking


----------



## illmatic (Aug 29, 2011)

JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 this week 
----------------
*Has Justice League #1 Sold Out?*



> There may have been over 200,000 preorders from retailers. And DC Comics will no doubt have included a generous over print.
> 
> But according to retailers trying to up their orders of the first of the New 52 titles from Diamond, they can no longer order additional copies of Justice League #1.
> 
> Officially it has designated by Diamond as on “backorder”. This is usually an early indicator that the comic in question has sold out…


Via


----------



## Taleran (Aug 29, 2011)

Yes that is a good idea for the first issue of the relaunch, reference an old story straight away......WHAT

God that is a dumb idea.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 29, 2011)

Err with Barbara as Batgirl it's kind of extremely necessary.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 29, 2011)

I think you could save it and have the first issue just about her being Batgirl in the new 52.

Remember these have the intention of drawing new readers.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 29, 2011)

I don't really think its a problem to catch people up really briefly. Daredevil 1 and 2 both said a little about Shadowland and that was a much smaller part of daredevil's life than Barbara's turn as Oracle. You really can't just ignore all that.


----------



## Glued (Aug 30, 2011)

Penance said:


> Ah, retconning ever being permanently paralyzed. That's...one way to go, I guess...



So the killing joke never happened.

An insult to the legacy of Alan Moore.

Barbara belongs in that chair as much as Barry Allen belongs six feet underground pushing up daisies.

Seriously, if they wanted to bring her back, all they had to do was use one of the uber alien technologies to heal her up.

Aquaman's son better still be dead after the reboot.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 30, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> So the killing joke never happened.
> 
> An insult to the legacy of Alan Moore.



 

it indeed happened as she talks in a internal monologue about missing crime fighting on the streets for so long and how she now has inhuman upper body strength


the scene from the killing joke is even recreated


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

Better have WestPark in the future.  It's like the cutest wincute fucking couple ever. 

Yes this is rare for me...

But I'm guessing it's Barry Allen and MAYBE Wally as Kid Flash.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 30, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> So the killing joke never happened.
> 
> An insult to the legacy of Alan Moore.



Moore isn't particularly proud of that story. In fact, I'm fairly sure he actively dislikes it.



Mael said:


> Better have WestPark in the future.  It's like the cutest wincute fucking couple ever.
> 
> Yes this is rare for me...
> 
> But I'm guessing it's Barry Allen and MAYBE Wally as Kid Flash.



It's Bart as Kid Flash. I know that Wally is still in the universe, but from what's been said he's essentially settled down now that he has kids.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2011)

ha! like his kids still exist...


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> It's Bart as Kid Flash. I know that Wally is still in the universe, but from what's been said he's essentially settled down now that he has kids.



Ah, so Bart's the one.

I know they first lived on that alien planet that revered he and the West family, then got launched back to Earth...but I'd still appreciate seeing Mr. and Mrs. Park. 



Petes12 said:


> ha! like his kids still exist...



Jai and Iris do exist...


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2011)

Barry isn't even married, you think Wally still has kids? Dick Grayson is 21 now.


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Barry isn't even married, you think Wally still has kids? Dick Grayson is 21 now.



Speed Force, kid. 

It DEFIES time.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 30, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Barry isn't even married, you think Wally still has kids? Dick Grayson is 21 now.



Barry has been in the Speedforce. Wally gets started later, and he could be 22-23. They may not be as old as they are right now, but it's easy for him to have kids. Look at it like this:

-7 Years: Barry becomes the Flash.
-6 Years: Wally becomes Kid Flash at age 16.
-5 Years: JLA forms around Superman. Term "superhero" comes into usage. Teen Titans form.
-3 Years: Barry disappears during Crisis. Wally takes over.
-1 Year: Wally and Linda have twins.
-2 Months Ago: Barry returns.
Now: Wally retires from active superheroing to raise his kids.

I mean, I could add the Speedforce years in there if I needed to.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2011)

Do you really think DC_ wants_ to keep his kids though?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 30, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Do you really think DC_ wants_ to keep his kids though?



In all honesty?

Absolutely. 

They are the _easiest_ way to get Wally out of there. What does it matter how old Wally seems in comparison to Barry? Wally isn't getting a book. Without kids, it's hard to imagine him having a reason to sit down and stop for a while.

But with the little buggers? Shit, actually having kids is as good a reason as any for early retirement. He could always show up for big emergencies or occasionally pitch in, but he actually has a reason to keep the adventures to a minimum.

Of course, I'm thinking logically. I just hope Didio and Johns are, too.


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Barry has been in the Speedforce. Wally gets started later, and he could be 22-23. They may not be as old as they are right now, but it's easy for him to have kids. Look at it like this:
> 
> -7 Years: Barry becomes the Flash.
> -6 Years: Wally becomes Kid Flash at age 16.
> ...



Works for me.

I was just asking since I was always kind of a Flash fan, the Wally West one.



Petes12 said:


> Do you really think DC_ wants_ to keep his kids though?



What was wrong with Iris and Jai?  Yeah Jai lost his shit but Iris became Impulse.  If anything they helped Wally's character even to a small degree.  I mean Linda Park is a must since she was pivotal since 1989 as the "beacon" for Wally.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2011)

They obviously didn't help his character since it's pretty much the reason DC decided to replace Wally with Barry.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 30, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> They obviously didn't help his character since it's pretty much the reason DC decided to replace Wally with Barry.



But they _do_ provide a nice off-ramp for his career.


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> They obviously didn't help his character since it's pretty much the reason DC decided to replace Wally with Barry.





That's a rather blanket statement.  That's like saying Linda Park had no contribution whatsoever.

Shit, might as well erase whatever contribution Jason or Tim had if they decided to just have Dick Greyson be Robin the whole way through too (not saying this happened, but just saying).


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 30, 2011)

Mael said:


> That's a rather blanket statement.  That's like saying Linda Park had no contribution whatsoever.
> 
> Shit, might as well erase whatever contribution Jason or Tim had if they decided to just have Dick Greyson be Robin the whole way through too (not saying this happened, but just saying).



Well, I think the problem is that DC has been stumped as to how to use them. The twins are nice ideas, but I don't think they've really been executed well. While they certainly didn't get too much time compared to a lot of characters due to Barry's reappearance, they were a bit of a drag on the books. And I say this as a Wally fan.

The fact of the matter is that, unlike the FF books, the Flash family just didn't pan out as a classic super-powered family. Wally was tied to that family, and despite some ideas it just didn't seem to work out.


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Well, I think the problem is that DC has been stumped as to how to use them. The twins are nice ideas, but I don't think they've really been executed well. While they certainly didn't get too much time compared to a lot of characters due to Barry's reappearance, they were a bit of a drag on the books. And I say this as a Wally fan.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that, unlike the FF books, the Flash family just didn't pan out as a classic super-powered family. Wally was tied to that family, and despite some ideas it just didn't seem to work out.



True.  Linda and Wally was necessary, but the kids were a WIP.

I'll admit to Iris and Jai being a bit clusterfucked.  The start I liked but the follow-through with Jai losing his powers and Iris getting everything and after was bad news.  I enjoyed the dynamics though of the Flash Family, FOR THE MOST PART.  Linda playing the party pooper mom was sort of a contrast to part of her past.  The role of her as Flash's WIFE and that "beacon" again he harped on (because you know you're something special when you can guide Wally OUT of the Speed Force) started to fade a bit.

And I was a tad confus as to how half-white, half-Korean kids get all red in the hair.

Well I'll hope for a cameo at least.  I liked Barry and Garrick, but WW was my fave.


----------



## Gallant (Aug 30, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> yeaaaaah I really don't care for character wanking



I pretty much agree here. I'm hoping it will just be a passing comment and not really harped on throughout a number of issues.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 30, 2011)

I think the twins are awesome.



Gallant said:


> I pretty much agree here. I'm hoping it will just be a passing comment and not really harped on throughout a number of issues.



Yeaaah,  I doubt it. Considering Simone has said things like this:

"a girl who was smarter than the male characters, who had class and elegance and style, as well as tough-as-nails grit."

And if I'm not mistaken she also said people are going to be jealous that she's a young woman with lots of degrees or something.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2011)

I mean she is smarter when it comes to straight up book knowledge, it's basically her shtick. Much like Dick has people skills and Cass has beat down skills. 

I hope she tempers it a little so it doesn't come off too sueish.


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I mean she is smarter when it comes to straight up book knowledge, it's basically her shtick. Much like Dick has people skills and Cass has beat down skills.
> 
> I hope she tempers it a little so it doesn't come off too sueish.



Wish in one hand, shit in the other.

Let's see what piles up first.


----------



## Gallant (Aug 30, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Yeaaah,  I doubt it. Considering Simone has said things like this:
> 
> "a girl who was smarter than the male characters, who had class and elegance and style, as well as tough-as-nails grit."
> 
> And if I'm not mistaken she also said people are going to be jealous that she's a young woman with lots of degrees or something.



Oh boy, that is insufferable. 

That is trying way too hard to make people like her as Batgirl more than when she was Oracle. Or trying too hard to make her out as the best batgirl there ever was and ever will be. Neither one sits well with me.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 30, 2011)

Honestly I wonder though how much of it is Simone and how much of it is Didio telling her to do these things.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 30, 2011)

/Jealous


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 30, 2011)

I just wanna know if Batgirl mentions Steph and Cass. I can wait for the rest. 



Gallant said:


> Oh boy, that is insufferable.
> 
> That is trying way too hard to make people like her as Batgirl more than when she was Oracle. Or trying too hard to make her out as the best batgirl there ever was and ever will be. Neither one sits well with me.



The funny thing? It makes me like her less, not more.

I like characters with flaws. Perfect ones bore me.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2011)

Cass was the star pupil dammit 

at karate stuff anyway.


----------



## Penance (Aug 30, 2011)

illmatic said:


> /Jealous



Showoff...


----------



## illmatic (Aug 30, 2011)

CBR gives Justice League #1 




*Spoiler*: _Review excerpt_ 



_Justice League" #1 really being the Batman and Green Lantern show, with a couple of cameo appearances by other characters. If I was a new reader, I'd be a little disappointed. I'd picked up a comic promising a bunch of big-name, recognizable characters (plus Cyborg), and most of them don't even show up._


I thought 'they'  meaning DC were trying to get away from making stories that will read better in trade paperback format. 


*Spoiler*: _Review excerpt #2_ 




_John's script is just average. As the big launch title for the new DC Comics, though? "Justice League" should have been much better than average. There's a lot of interest and potential goodwill around this title, and I fear that DC may have just given some of that away in the very first issue._



Signs of burnout..


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I just wanna know if Batgirl mentions Steph and Cass. I can wait for the rest.



Yea, same here. Im curious how they'll fit in with all this. Cass would be cool as black bat, the batfam's go to "we need some asses kicked" person. While I could see Steph (if not as spoiler) as an uncostumed scout/informant/undercover type.



> The funny thing? It makes me like her less, not more.
> 
> I like characters with flaws. Perfect ones bore me.



Yea....

Simone should know better than this. This reminds me of when Johns writes Hal Jordan as this infallible badass. I'm still hoping that this is just a small part of the issue and that it gets better from there.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2011)

Heh, I don't think Johns has been guilty of writing Hal as infallible lately. "we're the good guys, we always win!" ---> Kronarape

And of course the fantastic ending to WotGL


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2011)

Lately yea, but there have definitely been moments where Hal is being a jerkass but the story is kinda like "What do you mean it's not badass?"

But yea, at this point, I'd love to see Hal just screaming "Johns, why have you forsaken me!" up at the heavens. Seriously, I know i've said it before, but I want a co feature which includes a page or two of Hal doing regular shit and looking miserable about it.

First issue: Hal vs. Public transportation


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 30, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, same here. Im curious how they'll fit in with all this. Cass would be cool as black bat, the batfam's go to "we need some asses kicked" person. While I could see Steph (if not as spoiler) as an uncostumed scout/informant/undercover type.



I'm giving Batgirl one issue to prove itself. If there's no hint of Cass or Steph in this issue, I don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole.

Cass and Steph as secrets agents? Me gusta. 



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea....
> 
> Simone should know better than this. This reminds me of when Johns writes Hal Jordan as this infallible badass. I'm still hoping that this is just a small part of the issue and that it gets better from there.



I know she loves Babs, but I thought she was going to be more subtle about it.

I hate Author's Darlings


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 30, 2011)

3 stars for Justice League...hmm sounds about right to me, I really wasn't expecting a home run from League.


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> 3 stars for Justice League...hmm sounds about right to me, I really wasn't expecting a home run from League.



Justice League is a hit or miss IMO, especially with this reboot.  I'd give it time though since it's sort of "from scratch" again.

As for Cass/Steph, we'd still need that build-up into the Batfamily.  Steph could be that quirky undercover spy type, the ditzy person that everyone just writes off as lulzy but is srsly in like Flynt.  Cass, well she's the damage in damage control.  But we'd still need her Lady Shiva background now wouldn't we?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 30, 2011)

Mael said:


> Justice League is a hit or miss IMO, especially with this reboot.  I'd give it time though since it's sort of "from scratch" again.
> 
> As for Cass/Steph, we'd still need that build-up into the Batfamily.  Steph could be that quirky undercover spy type, the ditzy person that everyone just writes off as lulzy but is srsly in like Flynt.  Cass, well she's the damage in damage control.  But we'd still need her Lady Shiva background now wouldn't we?



So in other words we could basically make Steph into what Black Canary was during Dixon's run on Birds of Prey...just more bubbly.

I could roll with that


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2011)

steph is the gooperang expert


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> So in other words we could basically make Steph into what Black Canary was during Dixon's run on Birds of Prey...just more bubbly.
> 
> I could roll with that



Good analogy.  Steph can bring that added cheer.

Cass is too srs bzns, 24/7.  Besides if she's the damage in damage control, humor is a lost art.  Not saying she's Darkseid, but still.



Petes12 said:


> steph is the gooperang expert


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2011)

Cass is pretty funny when paired with Steph though, that's what makes putting them together such a great idea.

Who remembers when Cass broke her jaw 'just a little bit'


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I'm giving Batgirl one issue to prove itself. If there's no hint of Cass or Steph in this issue, I don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole.
> 
> Cass and Steph as secrets agents? Me gusta.



The way I see it, Steph is:

-Cute
-Comes from a poorish family/background
-has mad moxy
-Is likable/has social graces.

Sounds like the perfect person you want infiltrating or scoping out a gang, or or a corrupt company or gov. official (who wouldn't hire steph as an intern?), or whatever.

Then of course, when things get dicey and Steph has to blow her cover, she looks to some random shadow/rooftop/ventilation shaft and then BAM Cass comes in wrecking shit.

EDIT: Mael I swear I didn't read your post before posting this, guess its just great minds think alike ha.



Petes12 said:


> Cass is pretty funny when paired with Steph though, that's what makes putting them together such a great idea.
> 
> Who remembers when Cass broke her jaw 'just a little bit'



Best Cass/Steph scene was definitely when they were talking about their dads.

Steph :"When my dad was mad at me he'd lock me in a closet, what'd yours do?"
Cass: "Shot me."
Both: :rofl
Steph: "God, I can't beat you at *anything!*"

Whatever happens, I hope cass and steph are together rather than apart.

I think I'd rather them serve that role as Babs info gatherers then them just being put on the sidelines as black bat and spoiler, where they exist but never actually do anything



> I know she loves Babs, but I thought she was going to be more subtle about it.
> 
> I hate Author's Darlings



Yea...

Hopefully its just the first issue that's like this. I feel like once she gets into the meat of this arc it'll be less batgirl fapping.


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Cass is pretty funny when paired with Steph though, that's what makes putting them together such a great idea.
> 
> Who remembers when Cass broke her jaw 'just a little bit'







Whip Whirlwind said:


> The way I see it, Steph is:
> 
> -Cute
> -Comes from a poorish family/background
> ...



Like I said before.

Cass and Steph are damage control, Steph being control and when that fails, guess who's the damage?  It'd be nice if we can skip the Black Mask stuff too.  Dunno why that didn't really trigger interest in me.

Honestly I'm not really a Babs hater.  I guess I've paid too much attention to the older Batman to really find a reason to dislike.  If Cass and Steph are sidelined, I'll attribute that to either reluctance to complicate the Batfamily or author's negligence.  But since comics roll different than manga, I'll chalk it up to a timeline, akin to the Flash Family.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 30, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> steph is the gooperang expert



Gooperangs are lethal weapons 



Whip Whirlwind said:


> The way I see it, Steph is:
> 
> -Cute
> -Comes from a poorish family/background
> ...



Steph can be the wise girl to Cass's straight woman. 

I don't want them anywhere near Batgirl's book. 



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea...
> 
> Hopefully its just the first issue that's like this. I feel like once she gets into the meat of this arc it'll be less batgirl fapping.



I'm giving it one chance.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 30, 2011)

*ComicsAlliance Previews Half of DC's 52 New Comics*

_ComicsAlliance was recently given the opportunity to visit the DC Comics offices in New York City and read the first two weeks of the 52 relaunched books that will recreate the DC Universe Here are some quick, spoiler-free initial impressions of what we saw._

Read More:


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2011)

Yea, exactly.

It sucks that the chances of a Steph/Cass book are rather low. However, I feel like it'd be an awesome book to target at teenage/low 20s women. Is anything in the young justice line even targeted to girls? I feel like there isn't.

I'd love to see a "Batgirl INC" where Cass and Steph take on cases and stuff with intel support by Babs. Sort of like how Bats gives YJ their missions in the YJ cartoon.



gabzilla said:


> Steph can be the wise girl to Cass's straight woman.
> 
> I don't want them anywhere near Batgirl's book.



Exactly. And I'd much rather see them together on their own rather than in batgirl, but I feel like its going to be a LONG while (if ever) that they get their own book, so i wouldn't mind seeing them in Batgirl.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2011)

The preview turned me off to Batgirl honestly, it looks more BoP than Secret Six. As in, Simone likes to bounce between some pretty good humor and melodrama-with-too-many-dialog-boxes, Secret Six generally leaned towards the former and BoP to the latter. And I definitely prefer the former.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2011)

I actually think there's a relatively big market for that book, especially if they threw in Red Robin. There's a lot of fans of specifically that generation of Batman sidekicks.

Heh, Tim would make a good new 'Oracle'. Preferably without breaking his legs but really being the slightly exasperated intel/'leader' (something like director might be a better word?) thing that Barbara often did just completely works for him.


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Gooperangs are lethal weapons
> 
> Steph can be the wise girl to Cass's straight woman.
> 
> ...



The name gooperang itself scares me. 

Worse than Darkseid scary.   And Darkseid is the worst.

Steph can be that wisecracking Peter to Cass's Egon, the Michaelangelo to Cass's Raphael, the Dee Dee to Blackbat's Dexter. 

Oh come now Gabz, Babs can't be that bad...


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 30, 2011)

Don't want Cass and Steph to serve as props for Babsgirl.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, exactly.
> 
> It sucks that the chances of a Steph/Cass book are rather low. However, I feel like it'd be an awesome book to target at teenage/low 20s women. Is anything in the young justice line even targeted to girls? I feel like there isn't.
> 
> *I'd love to see a "Batgirl INC" where Cass and Steph take on cases and stuff with intel support by Babs. Sort of like how Bats gives YJ their missions in the YJ cartoon.*



I'd buy multiple issues.

Since they are not Batgirls anymore, it can be called "Awesome Inc" 

And since Babs is busy in her ongoing, I'm sure there are plenty of other benched young women that could be in their team.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Exactly. And I'd much rather see them together on their own rather than in batgirl, but I feel like its going to be a LONG while (if ever) that they get their own book, so i wouldn't mind seeing them in Batgirl.



I'd rather wait.

LOL at the Killing Joke being the only thing they talked about in the Batgirl one.



> SUICIDE SQUAD
> King Shark, Deadshot and Harley Quinn have been characters I've enjoyed reading in the past, so seeing them portrayed in this book as psychopaths with no sense of humor at all was painful for me.



Oh boy.

Static Shock looks promising.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I actually think there's a relatively big market for that book, especially if they threw in Red Robin. There's a lot of fans of specifically that generation of Batman sidekicks.
> 
> Heh, Tim would make a good new 'Oracle'. Preferably without breaking his legs but really being the slightly exasperated intel/'leader' (something like director might be a better word?) thing that Barbara often did just completely works for him.



I retract my previous pitch for a batgirl inc with babs giving them missions and instead would like RR to be in that role.

Rarely active, but does detective and intel work for them.

Also, my first thought was

*Tim pops up on computer screen*
Tim: "Good morning angels" 
Steph: "Wow, why was I crazy about you again?" 
Cass: "I don't get it." 
Steph: "Also, there's only two of us, so...you suck."
Tim: 

And I wouldn't mind Tim taking up some of the oracle slack. I'd still want him to be somewhat active (in TT and occasionaly in this proposed Tim/Cass/Steph book) but he's certainly not the type to crave action. For him, it's about being in the position to do the most good. If that's a desk job, he'd be happy to do it.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 30, 2011)

Oh lord I feel like i'm going to rage hard at Suiced Squad if that's the case...Harley without anykind of humor isn't Harley anymore...and quite honestly after Secret Six and Simone's depiction of King Shark and Deadshot, i'm not looking forward to it.


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> LOL at the Killing Joke being the only thing they talked about in the Batgirl one.
> 
> Oh boy.
> 
> Static Shock looks promising.



Joker loves to make himself the main point. 

Static Shock...hmmm...can't say I followed too much.

Oracle?  Sometimes I wished Jason's legs were broken. 



gabzilla said:


> Don't want Cass and Steph to serve as props for Babsgirl.



Never really thought that since I figured it was all under the Caped Crusader.

But I see where you're coming from concerning the author screwing up in this regard.  I'm sure they won't be.

Hurrrr...Cass vs. the Furies.  That's a fun match.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 30, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I retract my previous pitch for a batgirl inc with babs giving them missions and instead would like RR to be in that role.
> 
> Rarely active, but does detective and intel work for them.
> 
> ...



...I wanna draw that.



Mael said:


> Joker loves to make himself the main point.
> 
> Static Shock...hmmm...can't say I followed too much.
> 
> Oracle?  Sometimes I wished Jason's legs were broken.



Joker would be proud. First issue of Batgirl and everybody is talking about his work.

Oooh Jason/Cass/Steph team? I'd buy it


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 30, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I retract my previous pitch for a batgirl inc with babs giving them missions and instead would like RR to be in that role.
> 
> Rarely active, but does detective and intel work for them.
> 
> ...



You know, i'd actually like to see this...hell just give them the Birds of Prey book, I don't care if it already has a legit roster, i'd rather see this.


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Joker would be proud. First issue of Batgirl and everybody is talking about his work.
> 
> Oooh Jason/Cass/Steph team? I'd buy it



Joker. 

I'd buy one too...but would I be wrong if I refused to take it seriously for one iota if Jason was Oracle?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> ...I wanna draw that.



I would love you forever if you did, and would demand you let me use it as a set.



Emperor Joker said:


> You know, i'd actually like to see this...hell just give them the Birds of Prey book, I don't care if it already has a legit roster, i'd rather see this.



Ha that's what I was thinking. Honestly without Simone birds of prey probably won't last long anyway.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2011)

Read the CA thing, most of it actually sounded pretty positive! I mean, we all knew Suicide Squad was going to be an absolute disaster. That's a book that Simone really should've been writing, essentially "the Secret Six work for Amanda Waller". 

But hearing that Deathstroke 1 was actually pretty good is a nice surprise, and the Sgt Rock book too. A favorable comparison to Gotham Central is pretty much the absolute best thing that could've possibly been said about that book.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> ...I wanna draw that.



I won't lie, when I read that I thought "I want to see Gab draw that"


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 30, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I would love you forever if you did, and would demand you let me use it as a set.



Consider it done 



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Ha that's what I was thinking. Honestly without Simone birds of prey probably won't last long anyway.



Doesn't help that it looks... not really good.



Mael said:


> Joker.
> 
> I'd buy one too...but would I be wrong if I refused to take it seriously for one iota if Jason was Oracle?



Fine. 

We can have this instead:


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2011)

Blah I can't rep either of you wtfffffff


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

Geoff Johns reports Darkseid will likely be the first JL villain come tomorrow.

I wonder just how they're going to handle the Lord of Apokolips since he's about my fave villain in DC.



gabzilla said:


> Fine.
> 
> We can have this instead:



Heh...nice.  Cass screams a bit of that Japanese nutter from Hellsing but overall it looks good.

But Jason in a wheelchair would make for some scathing/self-loathing lulz.  Only Damien could top it off in bratty b'awwwing but that's a little too stretching out.

Steph: Ok I'm at the target, now what's the situation with security?
Jason: NO ONE UNDERSTANDS MY PAAAAAAIN!
Cass:


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 30, 2011)

Jason doesn't need to be in a wheelchair to be Oracle. 

I still prefer him as Father Jason anyway


----------



## illmatic (Aug 30, 2011)

_Green Lantern #1 was a really fun read. Clearest vision of both Hal and Sinestro in a long time!_ ~Newsarama


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Jason doesn't need to be in a wheelchair to be Oracle.
> 
> I still prefer him as Father Jason anyway



I'd prefer his legs broken thank you. 

Father Jason?  Nuh uh.  *Only one father* in that family. 

His name is Father Pennyworth.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 30, 2011)

Mael said:


> I'd prefer his legs broken thank you.
> 
> Father Jason?  Nuh uh.  *Only one father* in that family.
> 
> His name is Father Pennyworth.



Alfred can be whatever the fuck he wants


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Alfred can be whatever the fuck he wants



Alfred for Highfather of New Genesis. 

Not even Darkseid can withstand his delightfully benevolent British care and charm.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 30, 2011)

*comiXology*:


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Consider it done



I'm so excited for this.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 30, 2011)

Animal Man to be a bigtime sleeper hit.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I'm so excited for this.



Me too. 

Also makes me want to draw too, something I've been trying to get back into. Not your sequence, but just the characters.


----------



## Mael (Aug 30, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Me too.
> 
> Also makes me want to draw too, something I've been trying to get back into. Not your sequence, but just the characters.



If I could draw I would do this...

Oh wait...

*remembers he's a 40K fan too*



Never mind...back to writing for me.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 31, 2011)

*Review*: Justice League #1 
_
No Justice League #1s isn't in Britain yet. But they’ve just started selling them on the East Coast of America. And Dr. Manolis Vamvounis has one in his hands, and is reviewing it for Bleeding Cool….
_
Read More -


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

I just read it. It was honestly better than I expected, Hal was a lot more fun here than he's often been in GL, really cocky. Not bad Johns, not bad.

edit: it's getting some criticism for not instantly having the whole team together and I gotta say... what a retarded complaint. Why is it so hard for people to just enjoy a good story that moves at a comfortable pace?


----------



## Gallant (Aug 31, 2011)

I'm looking forward to Green Lantern when it hits my comic book store. I'm expecting good things.

I'm also hoping Static is well done when it gets released. 



gabzilla said:


> The funny thing? It makes me like her less, not more.
> 
> I like characters with flaws. Perfect ones bore me.



I can like God-mode sues if they are quirky but the way that Babs is being portrayed here isn't my thing. Its more Mary Sueish than God-mode.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I just read it. It was honestly better than I expected, Hal was a lot more fun here than he's often been in GL, really cocky. Not bad Johns, not bad.
> 
> edit: it's getting some criticism for not instantly having the whole team together and I gotta say... what a retarded complaint. Why is it so hard for people to just enjoy a good story that moves at a comfortable pace?



I love Hal in this. My first thought when reading him was "How is GL not this awesome all the time?"


----------



## Taleran (Aug 31, 2011)

It is a bit to hand holdy


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2011)

Meh, I expected that. Of all the books, I figured this would be the most new reader friendly, possibly to a fault. And while there is some of that here, overall its just a fun story.

So far I like how all the characters are being written, particularly GL and Supes (and his badass curiosity).

But we'll see. I'm trying to go into this very open minded.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 31, 2011)

There is new reader friendly and assuming the person reading the book as no idea what a Superhero is.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

Not sure what you're talking about Tal. I thought even the exposition on the GLC was done fairly well and that was definitely the most obvious of it.


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 31, 2011)

How are you guys reading it so quick? The hell?


Looks like DC and the word of mouth finally got my black ass to go to the comic store. I guess it wont hurt to collect some #1's and that hope their value starts to increase over time.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 31, 2011)

Justice League #1 has been out for an hour now. The book was released @ midnight on the East Coast of America. 


Midtown comics also had a signing party with Johns & Lee


----------



## Arishem (Aug 31, 2011)

It's time for me to start reading comics again.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 31, 2011)

BleedingCool did some unscientific  "just for fun"  Numbercrunching of The New 52 DC Comics Orders

BATWOMAN was in the top 10.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 31, 2011)

> Decompression: The book takes place over the course of about five minutes. I remember when comics covered five minutes in a panel. While the story seems rather interesting, there still isn't enough tangible elements to really sink your teeth in. That's a bit of a shame. However, is it just me or is the narrative and the way the story's told very manga-oriented? Twenty pages, not much happening, impressive visuals? Because if so, the book should be a weekly rather than a monthly.



This is one of the more common complaints I'm seeing. 


> _Twenty pages, not much happening, impressive visuals_


Someone been reading Bleach


----------



## illmatic (Aug 31, 2011)

*IGN - Justice League #1 Review*

_It's finally here. It's out with the old and in with the new. Flashpoint wrapped up what was left of the old DC Universe and right alongside it came Geoff Johns and Jim Lee's Justice League #1. The book has been set apart from the rest of the New 52, heralded as the movement's flagship title. This is the comic that longtime readers will be picking up to make their judgment calls, but more importantly, it's the title that new readers will be turning to in the aftermath of the media storm that is taking place as you read this. But underneath it all, beyond the hyperbole generating hype machine, is this a comic that will satisfy both crowds?_ 

Read More - 


*Spoiler*: _ Review excerpt_ 



Justice League #1 is fun, no doubt about it. There is a certain sense of feeling underwhelmed after reading it, simply because it's been hammered into our brains that this book represents the ushering of the single biggest comic book industry initiative in years.



*Spoiler*: _Review excerpt #2_ 



a perfectly entertaining – if somewhat safe – glimpse into a universe we're only just beginning to understand.



*Spoiler*: _2nd opinion Review excerpt_ 



I really don't think this story has the power to capture the imaginations of new and lapsed readers. And even if it could, the nearly two-month wait for issue #2 is going to kill that momentum. Hopefully the rest of the New 52 can pick up the slack.


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

illmatic said:


> BleedingCool did some unscientific  "just for fun"  Numbercrunching of The New 52 DC Comics Orders
> 
> BATWOMAN was in the top 10.



Interesting...



illmatic said:


> *IGN - Justice League #1 Review*
> 
> _It's finally here. It's out with the old and in with the new. Flashpoint wrapped up what was left of the old DC Universe and right alongside it came Geoff Johns and Jim Lee's Justice League #1. The book has been set apart from the rest of the New 52, heralded as the movement's flagship title. This is the comic that longtime readers will be picking up to make their judgment calls, but more importantly, it's the title that new readers will be turning to in the aftermath of the media storm that is taking place as you read this. But underneath it all, beyond the hyperbole generating hype machine, is this a comic that will satisfy both crowds?_
> 
> ...



The art already looks fantastic and it's rekindling my interest in DC again where Marvel hasn't so far (not to mention its plethora of so-so comic films).


*Spoiler*: __ 



Lacks Flash and Diana. 

However seeing dynamics between Bats and GL tickles my curiosity.

And two months?  Jeez...


----------



## illmatic (Aug 31, 2011)




----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

I couldn't help but notice the guy shot in the head with "Friendship is Magic" above at the end.

That took the prize...sorry Grant.


----------



## Glued (Aug 31, 2011)

"Aquaman is suddenly cool"


[Youtube]yl3ZZaXLEx0[/Youtube]


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

So my mom's best friend for decades married a comic book nut and still is married to him.  This guy is srs.  He had the first Hulk featuring Wolverine, the first Flash comic, the first Green Lantern, and the first Batman comic with Dick Greyson.  I kid you not he had these nigh-mint.  Had to sell some to get some serious cash for building an addition to his home.  Sad day.

I then asked him about the reboot.

Apparently what I didn't know was that he was such a traditionalist that when I expected some vigorous enthusiasm I got the biggest apprehensive rant for about 10 minutes.  Points were made about the potential for Dick Greyson's characterization as compared to the classic.  He liked the fact Babs was back in but told me that he had a funny feeling that any additions weren't going to arrive for a while if at all and even questioned why they should.  He didn't like the fact the first JL comic is not even featuring a sizable chunk of it along with these newer dynamics.  On and on he went into detail I hadn't thought even if I tried.

:S


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

Can't stop laughing at Flashpoint 5.

Superman looks ridiculous without the red briefs.



illmatic said:


> BleedingCool did some unscientific  "just for fun"  Numbercrunching of The New 52 DC Comics Orders
> 
> BATWOMAN was in the top 10.



As it should be


----------



## illmatic (Aug 31, 2011)

*Wednesday Comics Review: Justice League #1*

_Bleeding Cool ran the first Justice League #1 review earlier today, courtesy of Dr Mamoulis. He was rather critical of the comic, claiming it to be a fine Brave And The Bold but not a great Justice League book, starting out too small, with too few characters, going for an origin story first. Graeme McMillan at CBR agrees.

But I don?t.
_
Read More - 


*Spoiler*: _Review Excerpt_ 



What we get here is something closer to Ultimate Spider-Man #1 back in the day, itself criticised for not telling enough straight off, not putting him in the suit in the first issue (hell, it would take until the sixth) and I could see that was very wrong too. This is a different kind of comic for a different age and it?s playing with the medium well. Slow and steady, incremental, works.


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Can't stop laughing at Flashpoint 5.
> 
> Superman looks ridiculous without the red briefs.



Supes's costume is a hard sell...it always was.

Red undies. 

Strange though, as much of a lukewarm fan I am of her, I'm still bothered I haven't seen Wonder Woman.  But I guess they save the best for last?


----------



## Lucaniel (Aug 31, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Someone been reading Bleach



> impressive visuals
> bleach


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> > impressive visuals
> > bleach



One has characters with a modicum of deeper thought and the other one doesn't.

See if you can figure out which one.


----------



## Lucaniel (Aug 31, 2011)

i haven't even read JL#1, i'm just absolutely stunned by the idea of bleach having 'impressive visuals'


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> i haven't even read JL#1, i'm just absolutely stunned by the idea of bleach having 'impressive visuals'



Good to see you're with us, Luc. 

Kubo's shitstain has nothing on this.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Superman looks ridiculous without the red briefs.





he looks fine. if you were criticizing the armor look that'd be ok but getting rid of the red undies? cmon, that's only a good thing.


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> he looks fine. if you were criticizing the armor look that'd be ok but getting rid of the red undies? cmon, that's only a good thing.



I dunno...I was a bit thrown off by the aesthetic as well.  You're so used to one thing after so many years...


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

I know but if someone says "omg he needs a bigger color break thats just how costumes have to be" I will hurt them. It's nonsense, we're just used to the old costume.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

IDK what to say about FP 5 though.

No wait, I lied. Ok, the character moments and how that ties back to issue 1, with his mom and his friends, was fine. The plot elements were terrible though- OF COURSE DC would feel the need to actually explain why wildstorm and vertigo characters are in the DCU now.

...fucking idiots. This has always been their problem. And it doesn't even make sense because the vertigo guys had already showed up in brightest day and the wildstorm guys in the FP timeline. Dear DC, just LEAVE IT ALONE YOU DO NOT NEED TO EXPLAIN EVERY LITTLE RETCON. Also the art on that page was just bad. 

Who's the woman talking to him anyway?


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> IDK what to say about FP 5 though.
> 
> No wait, I lied. Ok, the character moments and how that ties back to issue 1, with his mom and his friends, was fine. The plot elements were terrible though- OF COURSE DC would feel the need to actually explain why wildstorm and vertigo characters are in the DCU now.
> 
> ...



...

I feel like DC Reboot needs a Deadpool to lighten this little mood here.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2011)

So is anyone else getting kind of annoyed at how people are whining about how the entire league isn't in the first issue?

I mean, they got more than half of them in there. I'd rather the characters each get a bit more time and be spread out over 2 issues then them all just being crammed into the opening issue just because.



Petes12 said:


> I know but if someone says "omg he needs a bigger color break thats just how costumes have to be" I will hurt them. It's nonsense, we're just used to the old costume.



This. The costume looks fine, and the belt serves as the color break just fine. Also, I really like the red lining of the collar and sleeves.


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So is anyone else getting kind of annoyed at how people are whining about how the entire league isn't in the first issue?
> 
> I mean, they got more than half of them in there. I'd rather the characters each get a bit more time and be spread out over 2 issues then them all just being crammed into the opening issue just because.
> 
> This. The costume looks fine, and the belt serves as the color break just fine. Also, I really like the red lining of the collar and sleeves.



SILENCE!  I wanted Flash and to a lesser extent Diana and by the gods WE SHOULD HAVE HAD IT!!!


----------



## The man with a pigeon (Aug 31, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Also the art on that page was just bad.



That's the funny thing about DC. 
I actually like Andy Kubert but he's not exactly the guy to do a comic book event in 2011, especially when compared to Marvel using guys like Coipel or Immonen.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So is anyone else getting kind of annoyed at how people are whining about how the entire league isn't in the first issue?



Yes. Fuck those people. zomg decompression ruining comics, how dare they tell a real story thru art and proper pacing, not thought bubbles!


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> he looks fine. if you were criticizing the armor look that'd be ok but getting rid of the red undies? cmon, that's only a good thing.



Design wise, it looks ridiculous. The lack of red undies brings more attention to his crotch, not less. Just look at the movie shots.


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Design wise, it looks ridiculous. The lack of red undies brings more attention to his crotch, not less. Just look at the movie shots.



So...what's on your mind?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

If it's drawing attention to them it's only because it's a noticeable difference you're not used to. Which will fade.

Quick question: Which looks better? 


or


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

^I guess if I were either gay or anal-retentive I'd be thoroughly scanning a superhero's genital region.  

In the case of the Flash, it doesn't really draw too much attention or ire.  Supes however has that iconic look to him.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 31, 2011)

Superman passed the red underpants onto Supergirl


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

That's my point, it doesn't bother people because a new design without the red undies is really bad or somehow doesn't work. It only bothers them cus it's different.


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Superman passed the red underpants unto Supergirl



Why does that not comfort me?


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> That's my point, it doesn't bother people because a new design without the red undies is really bad or somehow doesn't work. It only bothers them cus it's different.



That's silly. That's like saying the only reason you don't like a new design is because it looks different from the previous one. I think Harley's new costume is a disaster because it's a disaster, not because it's different. Nightwing's design is a good example of a costume without briefs that works. It works because it's mainly black and doesn't have many lines. Superman's blue makes _everything _more noticeable and the Jim Lee lines don't help.



illmatic said:


> Superman passed the red underpants onto Supergirl



You mean the costume where everything points to her red crotch?


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> You mean the costume where everything points to her red crotch?



Saw this a mile away. 

Even if I enjoy Powergirl just a tad more.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> That's silly. That's like saying the only reason you don't like a new design is because it looks different from the previous one.



I think that's the case this time. I mean when you're specifically saying the red underwear on blue brings less attention to Superman's crotch than what's essentially just blue pants, that's really the only possible explanation.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I think that's the case this time. I mean when you're specifically saying the red underwear on blue brings less attention to Superman's crotch than what's essentially just blue pants, that's really the only possible explanation.



Blue _tights_, not pants.


----------



## Nightblade (Aug 31, 2011)

1st issue:
Hal acts like a douche
Superman blitzes them for no good reason(maybe we'll find out in 2 months?)

meh, I think I'll pass on this one. for now anyway.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Blue _tights_, not pants.



Doesn't make you any more right about this


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Blue _tights_, not pants.



SSssssssssssssssssssssssspandex!


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

Nightblade said:


> 1st issue:
> Hal acts like a douche
> Superman blitzes them for no good reason(maybe we'll find out in 2 months?)



Maybe cus Hal had just said he was gonna restrain Superman?


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Doesn't make you any more right about this



There's quite a big difference between a blue shirt with blue pants and a blue shirt with blue tights. The visuals are pretty different.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

Red speedo does not improve the situation.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 31, 2011)

I think Petes just doesnt like it cause its old


----------



## Parallax (Aug 31, 2011)

the 12 stands for age


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

I don't like people liking stuff ONLY because it's old


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 31, 2011)

So just read Justice League, I personally felt it did a solid job of bringing us into the new universe, though for what it's worth it's an decent issue.

I don't get why people are complaining about not having the entire league in this issue though. It's a team book, as well as an origin story, you can't have everything in a single 27 page issue, and they need to realize that.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

It was ok. The problem is that if you are a new reader, are you going to wait almost two months for a resolution? Would you even care to find more about this story?



Parallax said:


> I think Petes just doesnt like it cause its old







Petes12 said:


> Red speedo does not improve the situation.



We agree to disagree *shrugs*


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> So just read Justice League, I personally felt it did a solid job of bringing us into the new universe, though for what it's worth it's an decent issue.
> 
> I don't get why people are complaining about not having the entire league in this issue though. It's a team book, as well as an origin story, you can't have everything in a single 27 page issue, and they need to realize that.



It's a preference issue.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> It was ok. The problem is that if you are a new reader, are you going to wait almost two months for a resolution? Would you even care to find more about this story?



Yeah idk about that  either. But in a little while giving someone the trade for the first arc of JL could be a really good way to get them into it.


----------



## Nightblade (Aug 31, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Maybe cus Hal had just said he was gonna restrain Superman?


more like

"oh, Green Lantern has got this shit under control, man in a bat costume."

I liked the way Batman was written though.
loved how Batman just took his power ring right under his nose.


----------



## Rod (Aug 31, 2011)

I got some issues with this JLA #1 w/ main one being about Hal, personally I'd like him a bit more tweaked to a less tone, as of the moment the character is being sold in impression clearly as an assclown, what I'd suspect of danger to the new public who just arrived.

Besides, could sorta understand the point Johns portrays this way in pretty abrupt manners as means to showcase different personalities instead of average hero way of acting 101.


----------



## Bushido Style (Aug 31, 2011)

Eh.... Justice League was okay. I was expecting a little more but overall, it was  above average. I'm expecting some of the other titles to be much better though. 

And hearing that Static Shock is good is reassuring. I was a little worried about the title but it sounds cool after reading the Comics Alliance preview.


----------



## Nightblade (Aug 31, 2011)

"note to self, Batman: Green Lantern can handle anything."


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2011)

Rod said:


> I got some issues with this JLA #1 w/ main one being about Hal, personally I'd like him a bit more tweaked to a less tone, as of the moment the character is being sold in impression clearly as an assclown, what I'd suspect of danger to the new public who just arrived.
> 
> Besides, could sorta understand the point Johns portrays this way in pretty abrupt manners as means to showcase different personalities instead of average hero way of acting 101.



Well since this is early in Hal's career, I can understand him being a bit of an assclown.

ANd honestly, a lot of what he did wasn't very assclownish. I mean, yea he treated batman like a dick, but bottom line this is a guy with no powers just running around in a batsuit. I can understand Hal not really taking him seriously.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> It was ok. The problem is that if you are a new reader, are you going to wait almost two months for a resolution? Would you even care to find more about this story?



Agreed entirely and after the talks they made about writing the stories differently I expected it to do more.



Emperor Joker said:


> I don't get why people are complaining about not having the entire league in this issue though. It's a team book, as well as an origin story, you can't have everything in a single 27 page issue, and they need to realize that.



Yeah you can actually because it has been done before.


----------



## Lucaniel (Aug 31, 2011)

i am FOR the red speedo


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Yeah you can actually because it has been done before.



Not well. **


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

Nightblade said:


> "note to self, Batman: Green Lantern can handle anything."



Def the highlight. His cockiness is great. And it's not exactly unbelievable either cus he basically just got a ring that lets him do anything.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 31, 2011)

Wait no I was wrong the book I was thinking of was everyone but Aquaman so it was close. 

Two Issues.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Def the highlight. His cockiness is great. And it's not exactly unbelievable either cus he basically just got a ring that lets him do anything.



For me the highlight was when he put on the cockiest grin imaginable and said "I can handle this."

Then he gets his shit utterly wrecked in the next page.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 31, 2011)

*Newsarama*: Seven DC NEW 52 Reviews: JUSTICE LEAGUE, ACTION COMICS, More

There's trepidation, there's excitement, there are interviews and panels and hype and debate. And then there's actually getting your hands on the product, sitting down, and reading.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2011)

Looks awesome. I expected Animal Man, Stormwatch, Action, and GL to be awesome, but its nice to see that Green Arrow was a good read as well.

I thought it was kind of funny that Batgirl was clearly the least positive of the reviews. It doesn't look bad, but I feel like in the long run making Babs batgirl isn't going to be the wonderful decision DC seems to think it is.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 31, 2011)

Reading it now, but Holy Shit Cyborg went to Edsel Ford High School!?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 31, 2011)

I think for people who actually buy DC comics Oracle was much beloved so you have that working against you.

Then for people who actually like Batgirl you have fans who feel doubly burned with regards to Cass and Steph being screwed over as they are.

Even if it turns out to be a good series it'd take a while for any writer to re-establish a character like that, even with the ever brilliant Gail Simone writing.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Looks awesome. I expected Animal Man, Stormwatch, Action, and GL to be awesome, but its nice to see that Green Arrow was a good read as well.
> 
> I thought it was kind of funny that Batgirl was clearly the least positive of the reviews. It doesn't look bad, but I feel like in the long run making Babs batgirl isn't going to be the wonderful decision DC seems to think it is.



I find it even funnier that the review was all about her victimization. Especially because some extreme Babsgirl fans were elated because their Original Not Fake BEST OF THE BEST Batgirl was going to leave her "crippled, victim, TJK related self" behind.

Guess not.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

but its ok because they appealed to that terrible "barbaraistheonetruebatgirl!!!!!!!!!" demographic!

It is good that Simone isn't just making Barbara magically all better and brushing over the issue.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 31, 2011)

For people getting into the comic for the first time, don't you have to establish that before you leave it behind?


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I think for people who actually buy DC comics Oracle was much beloved so you have that working against you.
> 
> Then for people who actually like Batgirl you have fans who feel doubly burned with regards to Cass and Steph being screwed over as they are.
> 
> Even if it turns out to be a good series it'd take a while for any writer to re-establish a character like that, even with the ever brilliant Gail Simone writing.



Scylla and Charybdis.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> For people getting into the comic for the first time, don't you have to establish that before you leave it behind?



Sure, I'm just laughing at the Babsgirl fans who hated Oracle because she was "weak" "didn't have her ongoing" "blah blah blah she's all about TKJ and she was better before she was crippled bring back the go go boots" and were hoping it was never going to be brought up again.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Sure, I'm just laughing at the Babsgirl fans who hated Oracle because she was "weak" "didn't have her ongoing" "blah blah blah she's all about TKJ and she was better before she was crippled bring back the go go boots" and were hoping it was never going to be brought up again.



Oh, well you don't listen to idiots.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

And now the books will be just like they remember! Oh wait, no, steph's book will have been closer to that tone than the new one will be.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 31, 2011)

Man, it feels as though half this thread has been about Batgirl. :S

I'm thinking about starting up a completely new thread for this DCnU. That sound good to everyone?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

I'd think we'd start going back to the original DC threads at this point.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

I'm sorry, I just need to vent  

I'll try to keep my Batgirl bitching to a minimum 



Petes12 said:


> And now the books will be just like they remember! Oh wait, no, steph's book will have been closer to that tone than the new one will be.



But she's not the original oneeee



i said i'd try


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Sure, I'm just laughing at the Babsgirl fans who hated Oracle because she was "weak" "didn't have her ongoing" "blah blah blah she's all about TKJ and she was better before she was crippled bring back the go go boots" and were hoping it was never going to be brought up again.



Yea, I think its pretty funny. Honestly I can't stand most of the babsgirl fans. They're freaking rabid. The batgirl board over at the DCforums is probably the most nastiest board on the site.

I don't know, my whole issue is that with her being batgirl, its going to downplay the tech/hacker aspect of her character. Sure, Simone will work it in, but she won't be a tech/hacker superhero, she'll be a bat superhero with tech/hacker aspects.

I always thought it was silly how the world's greatest hacker was doing simple intel and comms work, and figured that a reboot would be a great opportunity to really sell a hacker superhero. I mean, think of all the corrupt government organizations or corporations that could be seriously fucked by someone coming in and hacking all their shit. I wouldn't mind seeing a walking oracle (since it is kind of annoying how she's often written as this victim), but to me a grown up been around the block batgirl just seems boring to me.



Guy Gardner said:


> Man, it feels as though half this thread has been about Batgirl. :S
> 
> I'm thinking about starting up a completely new thread for this DCnU. That sound good to everyone?



Eh, I don't think its worth it. After issue 1 im sure most discussions will move into their respective threads. With this thread basically becoming the new general DC thread.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I'm sorry, I just need to vent
> 
> I'll try to keep my Batgirl bitching to a minimum
> 
> ...



No no no, you're fine. Just making a point, though.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

The batgirl board over at the DCforums is _disgusting_.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The batgirl board over at the DCforums is _disgusting_.



I'm assuming the same old shitstorm over there got cranked up to 11?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2011)

The DCforums in general are pretty disgusting.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I'm assuming the same old shitstorm over there got cranked up to 11?



You have no idea.


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 31, 2011)

This crow taste pretty good.

Justice League...new DCU, suddenly im okay with it all


----------



## Taleran (Aug 31, 2011)

You know as much as I wanted more from the intro (like a 64 or 80 page book that tells the entire first story right there like when CN aired the 3 part intro to Justice League at the same time)

That sets up expectations that all the other books will follow that format and that is way too much wishful thinking. I was just hoping for more than 3 scenes in a comic oh well.


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

Just because someone's not an ass stomper doesn't make them completely invalid and "weak."

So the fuck what?  Babs was intel. Yes it's a thankless job but it's a vital one.  DCForums can run into oncoming traffic.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 31, 2011)

Okay,  made me laugh.



> If we were, we would not be creating a quality lasting direction across a controlled number of titles.  We would instead be flooding the market with over 200 titles a month, changing your prices with abandon, killing off a character every quarter or so, and/or randomly announcing decimal-pointed event-ish thingies.  We haven?t.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 31, 2011)

Mael said:


> Just because someone's not an ass stomper doesn't make them completely invalid and "weak."
> 
> So the fuck what?  Babs was intel. Yes it's a thankless job but it's a vital one.  DCForums can run into oncoming traffic.



Especially considering Barbara as Oracle became far more invaluable and importent to the DC Super hero community than she ever was as Batgirl


----------



## Taleran (Aug 31, 2011)

All Justice League #1 needed was to be called Brave and the Bold #1 instead.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 31, 2011)

Mael said:


> Scylla and Charybdis.



Yeah except they didn't have to sail that way. It wasn't the will of the Gods. Will of WB execs or DC editors maybe but not Zeus.



Guy Gardner said:


> Man, it feels as though half this thread has been about Batgirl. :S



That's because me and gabs really like Batgirls in all her incarnations and we are pissed.

Anyway, it is the most controversial part of the reboot. She may not have been the best known character in popular culture but Oracle was the most prominent female character in the DCU and one of the most beloved.

Add into that the Cass cult and ripped off Steph fans and...



gabzilla said:


> The batgirl board over at the DCforums is _disgusting_.



I will never go there then ?____?


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Yeah except they didn't have to sail that way. It wasn't the will of the Gods. Will of WB execs or DC editors maybe but not Zeus.



Perhaps the execs fancy themselves Poseidon and Zeus.  Think about it...


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

Fun fact, the printed version of JL #1 has one small addition to the text that the digital version missed out on somehow.

"You can't fly, how else were we going to get here? Talk in a deep voice?"


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Especially considering Barbara as Oracle became far more invaluable and importent to the DC Super hero community than she ever was as Batgirl



True, but she was also pretty much a permanent side character. If Tim was relegated to computer/intel duty I'd be kind of annoyed, so I can see that side of the debate. I understand Babs fans being disgruntled about how little she actually does. I mean, when was the last time she had a true CMOA?

However, I think the idea that the ONLY way for her to be more active is by being Batgirl is incredibly uncreative. I think it's totally possible to have Oracle take a more active role. For example, she could hack into corrupt agencies and throw their dirty laundry up on the net for everyone to see, and get the corrupt head thrown out of office or fired. I really can't think of a bunch of other stuff, but im sure gail could.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

Taleran said:


> All Justice League #1 needed was to be called Brave and the Bold #1 instead.



this forum is really lacking the proper eyerolling emoticon I need for you right now.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 31, 2011)

Someone has to fill the snark role


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 31, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> True, but she was also pretty much a permanent side character. If Tim was relegated to computer/intel duty I'd be kind of annoyed, so I can see that side of the debate. I understand Babs fans being disgruntled about how little she actually does. I mean, when was the last time she had a true CMOA?
> 
> However, I think the idea that the ONLY way for her to be more active is by being Batgirl is incredibly uncreative. I think it's totally possible to have Oracle take a more active role. For example, she could hack into corrupt agencies and throw their dirty laundry up on the net for everyone to see, and get the corrupt head thrown out of office or fired. I really can't think of a bunch of other stuff, but im sure gail could.



The most interesting (and inadvertently funny) criticism that I've read about Oracle is that the idea of Oracle has started to make heroes lazier in their books, and writers in their storytelling. No longer do people need to work at being a detective, because you can just have Oracle on speed-dial to reveal all your plot-points for you!

Oracle: Your important information in 30 minutes or less, or it's free!


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

That's a problem with the writers, not the character.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> True, but she was also pretty much a permanent side character. If Tim was relegated to computer/intel duty I'd be kind of annoyed, so I can see that side of the debate. I understand Babs fans being disgruntled about how little she actually does. I mean, when was the last time she had a true CMOA?
> 
> However, I think the idea that the ONLY way for her to be more active is by being Batgirl is incredibly uncreative. I think it's totally possible to have Oracle take a more active role. For example, she could hack into corrupt agencies and throw their dirty laundry up on the net for everyone to see, and get the corrupt head thrown out of office or fired. I really can't think of a bunch of other stuff, but im sure gail could.



I'd rather have a strong well developed secondary character who is the superhero equivalent of a general, who has her own team and her own name, than an ongoing starring the same woman regressed back to girlhood, stripped of her major accomplishments (let's be honest, Babsgirl didn't have many in comics) and who is once again under the shadow of the Bat.


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> The most interesting (and inadvertently funny) criticism that I've read about Oracle is that the idea of Oracle has started to make heroes lazier in their books, and writers in their storytelling. No longer do people need to work at being a detective, because you can just have Oracle on speed-dial to reveal all your plot-points for you!
> 
> *Oracle: Your important information in 30 minutes or less, or it's free!*



I want mine with onions and peppers...no pepperoni.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 31, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> The most interesting (and inadvertently funny) criticism that I've read about Oracle is that the idea of Oracle has started to make heroes lazier in their books, and writers in their storytelling. No longer do people need to work at being a detective, because you can just have Oracle on speed-dial to reveal all your plot-points for you!
> 
> Oracle: Your important information in 30 minutes or less, or it's free!



I can see where that complain is coming from, and in fact there was an entire story arc in Birds of Prey that dealt with that recently...but when you have somehow who over the years has become this super hacker and intelligent as Barbara had become, that's to expected.

Though most people forget the villians had thier own Oracle as well when it came down to it...though Calculator wasn't shown that often.

Personally though I feel she should be both, as without Oracle, the Birds of Prey no longer have a mission control...


----------



## illmatic (Aug 31, 2011)

_So how did we end up in this new version of the DC Universe? How did the Flash do what exactly with time travel? And what's going on with Vertigo and Wildstorm? We strive to answer your questions in our FAQ for The New 52._ *SPOILERS FOLLOW*.

Read More:


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 31, 2011)

I'd like to correct an earlier comment: Cyborg goes to Detroit Henry Ford (Which is actually the Trojans, not the Titans, but I'm pretty sure that's why Johns chose it), not Edsel Ford (Which is in Dearborn).

But I do really like the issue. As a jumping on point, I enjoyed it. I think Newsarama probably had the best comment about the books they've seen: The writers feel like they are having fun with everything. To me, that's a great indicator of what's going on.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 31, 2011)

Concering the mixing of all the universes, I don't really see them mixing Vertigo into the mix that much

I mean Constanine and Swamp Thing with some spooky scary hijinks

but that's it

plus Vertigo imprint is dying anyway so there's nothing to really meld in.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 31, 2011)

heh so Deathstroke might be worth checking out eh?  That;s a surprise.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 31, 2011)

#

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Castiel (Aug 31, 2011)

Hal Jordan with something resembling a personality

What the fuck is this


----------



## Mael (Aug 31, 2011)

Castiel said:


> Hal Jordan with something resembling a personality
> 
> What the fuck is this



I prefer my automaton thank you.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 31, 2011)

So lets get away from what we are getting and look to what we could have gotten.



What is your favorite of the Fifty Too? Also see if you can guess mine


----------



## Glued (Aug 31, 2011)

Cyborg grabs a football in front of the American flag...why so subtle.

They should have added a Big Mac in the background, with bald Eagles flying overhead, some cowboy wearing 10 gallon hat walking around, a couple of fighter jets soaring through the skies with fireworks lighting their way(Oh wait Hal did that), the statue of liberty saluting cyborg and Uncle Sam handing a trophy to Vic personally.

With America Fuck Yeah playing while it all happened.

[Youtube]IhnUgAaea4M[/Youtube]


----------



## SageMaster (Aug 31, 2011)

Read JLA #1, and I loved the GL/Batman interactions.

Can't wait for next issue. Supes vs Batman 

Now I'm off to read Flashpoint to see how the DCU got rebooted.


----------



## MrChubz (Aug 31, 2011)

Just read Justice League #1.

Things I liked:
Batman
Green Lantern Fire Truck
America, fuck yeah!
Hal Jordan pretty much being replaced with Bonzo the Assclown in every page

Things I disliked:
Hopefully Superman won't be an asshole
I was hoping to see all of the league members (not a big deal though)

The one thing I'm iffy on is using Darkseid as a villain this early on. Obviously his scheme needs to be stopped. However I'm hopeful that it'll be stopped in a way that Darkseid himself doesn't look bad. Also I'm hoping Darkseid himself will do something completely mindblowing and not even get touched by a single one of the good guys.


The best part is certainly this: "note to self, Batman: Green Lantern can handle anything,"


----------



## SageMaster (Aug 31, 2011)

Guys, did you notice the weird time lady from Flashpoint #5 was watching Vic during the football game?

THE PLOT CHICKENS


----------



## illmatic (Aug 31, 2011)

I read somewhere Darkseid's appearance will be different.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

Wow I saw her and totally didn't make the connection at all. Nice catch and fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck I don't want that crap


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

illmatic said:


> I read somewhere Darkseid's appearance will be different.



I'm hoping they take inspiration from the FC look with the helmet especially.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 31, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Guys, did you notice the weird time lady from Flashpoint #5 was watching Vic during the football game?
> 
> THE PLOT CHICKENS



I actually didn't see her until you mentioned it lol


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 31, 2011)

DC's keeping the time lady ready on the sidelines case of retcon


----------



## Rod (Aug 31, 2011)

So how do you think those folks will start taking Bruce seriously, Clark will be used to hype?


----------



## MrChubz (Aug 31, 2011)

I wouldn't be surprised if she turned out to be Darkseid's bitch. Rule #1 of the DC Universe. Everything is always caused by Darkseid one way or another.


----------



## Rod (Aug 31, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I'm hoping they take inspiration from the FC look with the helmet especially.



Ah, and let's not forget the jeans, please! 

Sorry, everytime I remember he went out using jeans, I stop to think about it for a little.


*Spoiler*: __ 



ahh maaaan seriously.....:rofl


----------



## MrChubz (Aug 31, 2011)

Rod said:


> Ah, and let's not forget the jeans, please!
> 
> Sorry, everytime I remember he went out using jeans, I stop to think about it for a little.
> 
> ...



He also better have dirty hands. Everyone knows bad guys don't wash their hands and Darkseid is the worst guy.

Edit: After I posted this I remembered that the most powerful soap in the universe doesn't work on Darkseid.


----------



## TheWon (Aug 31, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH3W1gQYiD4[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 31, 2011)

Loved that part, especially the smirk.

Overall, I really loved the book. It's not the greatest thing since sliced bread (Apparently Action Comics #1 is, judging from the responses I've seen so far), but a lot of good build, an interesting mystery (At least, for a new person), and great art. The couple of haters I see I think are people who honestly _want _to hate this relaunch more than anything else.

And with a lot of the preview stuff coming out about other books, my optimism finally feels somewhat justified. The best thing I've heard is that the artists and writers really come off like they are having fun, which is encouraging to me. Hopefully the atmosphere will translate into great books and great sales.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 31, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Guys, did you notice the weird time lady from Flashpoint #5 was watching Vic during the football game?
> 
> THE PLOT CHICKENS



She is appearing thought out all NEW 52 in every first issue it would seem. :amazed


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> DC's keeping the time lady ready on the sidelines case of retcon



My thoughts exactly

I'm gonna call her Lady Retcon from now on


----------



## Taleran (Aug 31, 2011)

Bottom left corner





Also the entire idea behind that character is a complete bonehead move.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 31, 2011)

So they're comics as well as a game of Where's Waldo


----------



## MrChubz (Aug 31, 2011)

That or DC staff got inspiration from One Piece's Pandaman.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Bottom left corner
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Godfuckingdamnit.


----------



## Rod (Aug 31, 2011)

Lol "are you okay?"

yeah sure, better than ever.


----------



## MrChubz (Aug 31, 2011)

My eyes turn red and bleed from time to time. It's usually nothing to concern a doctor with. That guy must have a pretty bad case of it.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 31, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> My eyes turn red and bleed from time to time. It's usually nothing to concern a doctor with. That guy must have a pretty bad case of it.



Few people realize that he's actually channeling the Bleeding Eye Hawk, the fastest animal in the world. It's a common misconception.


----------



## Rod (Aug 31, 2011)

Chubz his skin is melting, his ears are bleeding too! 

Eeeks, disgusting. >.>

Anyways, on another news;

Did you guys noticed this particular panel in the JL#1 :



Do you believe it was an intentional easter egg, a coincidence, or just a way to show they are now following references more close?

That pic from the city is just a modern take version of the very same drawing of old Gotham seen in Jonah Hex's century! 

Cool thing, no?


----------



## illmatic (Aug 31, 2011)

The new Jonah Hex book is set in Gotham long ago past so its possible reference


----------



## MrChubz (Aug 31, 2011)

That's just a cool panel in general. Clever location? Check. GL Fire Fighting? Check. Hal Jordan either being an doofus or being set-up to be a doofus (from what I remember)? Check.


----------



## Rod (Aug 31, 2011)

Ah found it, for comparison! 

Centuries ago (All Star Western #1, art by Moritat):



Actual times (Justice League#1, art by Lee):


----------



## Taleran (Aug 31, 2011)

I am kinda befuddled how Construct Fire Engines work but that is beside the point.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 1, 2011)

Maybe Hal can make his GL water disperse heat as if it's real water.

Actually fuck science. The real answer is this:

Note to self readers. Green Lantern can handle anything


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 1, 2011)

Read the new JL, it was pretty good, but i facepalm when Batman was able to remove Hal's ring.

Darkseid being mentioned got me jumping out of my skin. Now i just hope they don't watered him down too much.

Superman entrance was pretty good, and the fact that made him break through Hal's construct was even better. Better yet they made him pretty cocky.

On a side note JL#1  has already sold out.


----------



## Glued (Sep 1, 2011)

But Batman does have a point about Hal Boring, he would be afraid if he were fighting someone that could actually think...burn.

When is Geoff Johns going to get it through his head, no one likes Hal.

Hell I hope someday Kilowog becomes GL of Earth and they send Hal away to fight crime in some other galaxy.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 1, 2011)

I liked Hal in this. Clearly he works fine when he actually gets some characterization. 

And you're an Aquaman fan you can't talk


----------



## Rod (Sep 1, 2011)

One thing I'm curious to see is how Geoff will build Bruce and Clark friendship, The world's Finest remain the most iconic team-up as far as heroes are concerned, plus considering all the lastest events still happened, and this includes all the crisis and Bruce's death with Clark going all out to find him, Kryptonite ring trusted to Bruce, etc... Imagine how GJ plans to progress their relationship up to the legendary brotherhood point.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 1, 2011)

Taleran said:


> I am kinda befuddled how Construct Fire Engines work but that is beside the point.



Fire hose constructs, real fire hydrants?


----------



## Taleran (Sep 1, 2011)

Yeah I thought of that after the fact


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 1, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Fire hose constructs, real fire hydrants?



Doesn't account for green water.


----------



## Rod (Sep 1, 2011)

I just really hope to see this again! 



One of the most iconical comic images of all times.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 1, 2011)

Simple: The green water creates a vacuum in the area it hits. With nothing to burn, the combustion stops. As for the cinders, perhaps it can cool it off as well since it obviously can monitor and adjust the temperature for any GL it is shielding.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 1, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Doesn't account for green water.



Eh whatever.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 1, 2011)

I'm going to stick with imaginary GL water has the same cooling properties as real water.


----------



## Rod (Sep 1, 2011)

This is like the green fire discussion of the movie. U.u


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 1, 2011)

Guess there's really no reason the ring can't make liquids the same way it makes solids.


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 1, 2011)

Rod said:


> One thing I'm curious to see is how Geoff will build Bruce and Clark friendship, The world's Finest remain the most iconic team-up as far as heroes are concerned, plus considering all the lastest events still happened, and this includes all the crisis and Bruce's death with Clark going all out to find him, Kryptonite ring trusted to Bruce, etc... Imagine how GJ plans to progress their relationship up to the legendary brotherhood point.



The fact that Superman looks way younger than Bruce might also play a role in the buildup of their friendship.


----------



## Bushido Style (Sep 1, 2011)

Uncanny X-Force was amazing. Remender knocked it out of the park and the art is fantastic.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 1, 2011)

Next week I'll be getting Action Comics #1, Detective Comics #1, O.M.A.C #1, and Swamp Thing #1. Anything else I should be hyped for?


----------



## illmatic (Sep 1, 2011)

ANIMAL MAN #1 $2.99


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 1, 2011)

I'm definately getting Action and Detective Comics. I dunno about Animal Man, though. Heard it was really good, but I had never heard of the guy.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 1, 2011)

Justice League.

Good start.

Now. . . when will it be delayed?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 1, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> I'm definately getting Action and Detective Comics. I dunno about Animal Man, though. Heard it was really good, but I had never heard of the guy.



He's best known for Morrison's run on Animal Man, which was I think Morrison's first DC book, and was very good. 

I'm definitely interested in Animal Man, as well as Stormwatch and Action next week


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 1, 2011)

Water puts out fires by smothering the flame, depriving it of oxygen. I assume the green lantern ring plasma is fireproof and shaping it like water hardly seems like it'd be hard.

Also in the first issue of JLA: Tower of Babel when the League goes shrink and goes into that little boy's head Kyle's ring doesn't work and just shoot slimy green spooge everywhere so they can be limited to liquids when broken.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 1, 2011)

Mael said:


> Good to see you're with us, Luc.
> 
> Kubo's shitstain has nothing on this.



i am now, and my reaction is a big 'meh'

i like the league best when everyone is deferring to batman, because batman is my bestestbuddyever, so hal got on my nerves. on the other hand, he had a personality, which is a good start. on the _other_ other hand, he seems to be a bit of an idiot ('i can handle him' BIGBLUETRAINOFDEATHKNOCKOUT)

we'll see

also, wonder woman's boobs downsized. geh

btw: when i heard cyborg was going to be in JL my reaction was adverse, followed by remembering that he was always the experienced elder statesman of the TT and figuring it was high time he graduated. if they've dialled him back to the origin story, i am going to find his newbie fuckups in arcs to come _very_ annoying


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 1, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> i am now, and my reaction is a big 'meh'
> 
> i like the league best when everyone is deferring to batman, because batman is my bestestbuddyever, so hal got on my nerves. on the other hand, he had a personality, which is a good start. on the _other_ other hand, he seems to be a bit of an idiot ('i can handle him' BIGBLUETRAINOFDEATHKNOCKOUT)
> 
> ...



Would you defer to a guy who is (to your knowledge) some lunatic running around in the batsuit? Keep in mind this is before Batman has proven that he's the smart guy of the team

And I forgive Hal's confidence because really he has no reason not to be confident. At this point he probably hasn't run into anything that really challenged him, and the GL ring is so crazy powerful that I could understand him being cocky. I hope this humbles him a bit now that he knows that there's things out there that can utterly wreck his shit.

And yea Im not happy about Cyborg. Him going from TT to the league makes sense. Him going straight to the league does not. Also, this confirms that New Teen Titans is being ripped from continuity, and that utterly blows. Beast Boy just lost his best bro ha.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 1, 2011)

yeah i know my reaction to the batman dynamic being upset is, on one level, fairly illogical, because no-one knows each other yet

but on a higher level, i blame the reboot. FUCK YOU DC

edit: good job getting jim lee on it, though. he could almost make me read all star batman and robin the boy wonder, making him virtually godlike


----------



## illmatic (Sep 1, 2011)

"_Animal Man is my new favorite monthly book_."-Geoff Johns

too much hype


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 1, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> yeah i know my reaction to the batman dynamic being upset is, on one level, fairly illogical, because no-one knows each other yet
> 
> but on a higher level, i blame the reboot. FUCK YOU DC



I'm trying to be open minded about the reboot. Of course there are some things that really bother me (NTT and Young Justice both being apparently gutted from continuity) but overall it doesnt seem too bad.

And on the flip side, while we don't have that cool batman dynamic yet, we'll get to see Batman establish that dynamic. Although honestly I like the league the most when Supes is leading while Bats is essentially his XO.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 1, 2011)

New Teen Titans has been confirmed to have happened. Considering Vic is something like 17-18 when this comic happens, he might go to the Titans despite being a part of the League at first.


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 1, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I'm trying to be open minded about the reboot. Of course there are some things that really bother me (NTT and Young Justice both being apparently gutted from continuity) but overall it doesnt seem too bad.
> 
> And on the flip side, while we don't have that cool batman dynamic yet, we'll get to see Batman establish that dynamic. *Although honestly I like the league the most when Supes is leading while Bats is essentially his XO.*




Yeah, that's my favourite sort of league too. Like in the Grant Morrison JLA run.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 1, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> New Teen Titans has been confirmed to have happened. Considering Vic is something like 17-18 when this comic happens, he might go to the Titans despite being a part of the League at first.



Huh. Hopefully he isn't actually part of the league the whole time between the origin arc and the current time of the DCnU.

Like at the end of the origin arc he realizes he's not ready and goes with the titans, or something like that.

I dunno. The whole thing still sounds messy.



Whimsy said:


> Yeah, that's my favourite sort of league too. Like in the Grant Morrison JLA run.



Indeed.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 1, 2011)

Cyborg is on the cover so I just assumed that Cyborg is a founding member.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 1, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I'm trying to be open minded about the reboot. Of course there are some things that really bother me (NTT and Young Justice both being apparently gutted from continuity) but overall it doesnt seem too bad.
> 
> And on the flip side, while we don't have that cool batman dynamic yet, we'll get to see Batman establish that dynamic. *Although honestly I like the league the most when Supes is leading while Bats is essentially his XO.*



oh that's pretty much what i'm talking about. i don't actually want batman to lead the league, that would be weird. i just like it when they all treat him like the king he is, but almost ironically,  because there are great moments

like in quiver, when olly turns up at the watchtower and is about to shoot an arrow and gets ko'd outta nowhere by him, and he then says (responding to WW 'how long have you been skulking around?') "Long enough to hear that none of you could get past your cartoonish, slack-jawed dumb-foundedness over the situation and secure any answers as to why a man who we all KNOW is dead walks around articulating like a walking anachronism."

kyle: "That is, by far, the most complex sentence I’ve ever heard anyone utter."

wally: "Ten Bucks says he’s been hiding in the shadows for the last hour, just so he could come up with a put-down that classy."

that's the jla dynamic i love


----------



## illmatic (Sep 1, 2011)

*CA: In Justice League issue #1 and the new DC Universe in general, there's a sense that superheroes are something that people are suspicious of, that people are afraid of. Can you talk about that a little bit?*

*GJ*: Really, it's a tone set in the early years of the DC Universe. One of the things that I wanted to do when we set out to do Justice League was [make it] the origin story of the superhero more than the origin of the Justice League. You see why the DCU is an optimistic place; why the people do look up to the heroes. How the DC Universe grows organically into what its best aspects are. We're trying to accentuate that, from public perception to everything else. But there is that story of mistrust, and maybe just a little bit of apprehension. They're unknown, these superhumans, and it unfolds into a story that shows us why the Justice League becomes the Justice League.

*JL*: It's really a history of the origins of the DC Universe. Emergence of these super-powered beings, public anxiety as you noted, but it's really about how the heroes turn that perception around. It develops in a very organic way, it actually comes through character. So much of the story, the way Geoff writes it, there's a lot of humor, a lot of witty banter, you see the personalities behind the masks come out. And through that human interaction I think you start seeing why the League matters to people, how it humanizes the characters behind these iconic names, and how that's important to the rest of society.

Read More:


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 1, 2011)

Justice League has me super intrigued for some reason


----------



## mali (Sep 1, 2011)

I wanna see if theirs any increase of quality in Red Lantern Corps, although I dont expect it.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 1, 2011)

illmatic said:


> *CA: In Justice League issue #1 and the new DC Universe in general, there's a sense that superheroes are something that people are suspicious of, that people are afraid of. Can you talk about that a little bit?*
> 
> *GJ*: Really, it's a tone set in the early years of the DC Universe. One of the things that I wanted to do when we set out to do Justice League was [make it] the origin story of the superhero more than the origin of the Justice League. You see why the DCU is an optimistic place; why the people do look up to the heroes. How the DC Universe grows organically into what its best aspects are. We're trying to accentuate that, from public perception to everything else. But there is that story of mistrust, and maybe just a little bit of apprehension. They're unknown, these superhumans, and it unfolds into a story that shows us why the Justice League becomes the Justice League.
> 
> ...



 I guess that is a sound way to start the line in the past.

Although now I get the feeling that the 5 year jump from Past DC books to present DC books to be kinda jarring that will be interesting.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 1, 2011)

A little maybe but they're also hoping to make the heroes feel a little less experienced even in the present.

Plus a lot of the later additions will be brand new to the JL right? I mean hawkman's getting a new origin in the present I think, and so is firestorm.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 1, 2011)

Yeah and also in that 5 year period Cyborg leaves to go found the Teen Titans or some shit.


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 1, 2011)

I just read the first issue of Justice League. If this is suppose to be the intro to the DC reboot... it doesn't bold well for the future.

I just wasn't really impressed by it at all. It felt like reading a bad draft for a Justice League film.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 1, 2011)

Mali said:


> I wanna see if theirs any increase of quality in Red Lantern Corps, although I dont expect it.



I don't have my hopes to high for Red Lanterns to be honest, I don't see much story potential for an entire corp full of bloodlusted berserkers.

I expect it to be one of the series that gets canned


----------



## Rod (Sep 1, 2011)

lol


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## Devil Kings (Sep 2, 2011)

Rod said:


> lol



You're fucking with me right.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 2, 2011)

Man with all the discussion started on the internet about just this one book of the New 52

Next week is going to be VOLATILE, it has 90% of the books guaranteed to piss people off/ be terrible.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 2, 2011)

it has some really really good ones too though.

actually not sure what youre talking about, it has hawk and dove and batgirl? if suicide squad was coming out next week you'd maybe have a point.

I don't care what crap they put out, we're also getting action comics, stormwatch, animal man and swamp thing.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 2, 2011)

*Action Comics #1 To Go On Sale In The UK Fifteen Hours Before USA*

_This week a number of DC stores had a midnight opening to sell Justice League #1 and Flashpoint #5. The UK missed out as stores only got their comics on the day of sale, because of the Bank Holiday on Monday.

So they are doing it next week instead. UK retailers will be allowed to sell the first batch of New 52 comics from midnight on Tuesday. Not only will this be ten hours before they usually go on sale, but it will be fifteen hours before they go on sale in New York_.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 2, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> it has some really really good ones too though.
> 
> actually not sure what youre talking about, it has hawk and dove and batgirl? if suicide squad was coming out next week you'd maybe have a point.
> 
> I don't care what crap they put out, we're also getting action comics, stormwatch, animal man and swamp thing.



Batwing is the other one that could be really terrible, and O.M.A.C is half brilliant half worst idea ever.

The rest of the book are mid list (Man of War, JLI, Static Shock(which could be really good I really wish they used this as a chance to give him the original costume however, whatever), Green Arrow and the Tony Daniel show.


Also Animal Man I am not sure about that book even with all the hype the coloring on that preview looks so terrible.


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## Petes12 (Sep 2, 2011)

colorist won't stop me from enjoying it if its otherwise good. I think in order for people to get mad over batwing or omac, they'd have to buy it. 

I don't really expect anything good from JLI or Green Arrow but the things I instantly dislike about them (JURGENS) is something other people for some insanely stupid reason (NOSTALGIA) are excited about.


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## Devil Kings (Sep 2, 2011)

I predict JL#2 to be bad for one reason, and one reason only. Too hype Batman, they won't have Superman rip him in half in the first nano second.

So instead he'll actually beat Superman, and try too humble him.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 2, 2011)

You think they should have Superman tear Batman in half?


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 2, 2011)

Taleran said:


> You think they should have Superman tear Batman in half?




...........


----------



## Cromer (Sep 2, 2011)

Taleran said:


> You think they should have Superman tear Batman in half?


GODDAMMIT YES


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## Mael (Sep 2, 2011)

Thanks to the reboot...I've finally set foot in a comic book store since 2007.

/desire for cupcake. :33


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## Nightblade (Sep 2, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> I predict JL#2 to be bad for one reason, and one reason only. Too hype Batman, they won't have Superman rip him in half in the first nano second.
> 
> So instead he'll actually beat Superman, and try too humble him.


I'm thinking he, Bats and Hal will throw a punch or two with Supes maybe getting the upper hand then, it gets interrupted when a Parademon attacks town. Supes rescues civilians while Hal and Bats take care of the Parademon. then they talk.

or something along those lines I fucking hope.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 2, 2011)

well if bats throws a punch at him it's guaranteed he'll be spending the next issue or two with a broken wrist, which would be a shitty start, so i hope he's smarter than that


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## illmatic (Sep 2, 2011)

*Exclusive DC "New 52" Preview: ACTION COMICS #1*
_
The new, crusading Superman debuts Sept. 7th from DC Comics in Action Comics #1, what the the publisher calls the "cornerstone" of its "New 52" line-wide relaunch of their superhero universe.

Newsarama and its publishing partners present an exclusive six-page preview of the historic 40-page debut issue, the first Action Comics #1 in over 73 years. _


----------



## illmatic (Sep 2, 2011)

*Action Comics #1 And Batgirl #1 Sell Out And Get Second Prints. Justice League #1 Gets Third.*

_



			Today is the last day retailers can order Justice League #1 Second Print from DC Comics

Except they can’t.

It has already gone to “backorder” and Diamond Comic Distribution representatives are telling retailers that it has already sold out from them.
		
Click to expand...

_
Read More -


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 2, 2011)

I wonder how the #2 issues will do. . .


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## TheWon (Sep 2, 2011)

It depends on how much the initial batch was. You shipped a small amount to retailers, and then when they sale out. You can do 2nd, and 3rd prints. Before the reboot DC comics did not allow reorders on any of their comics expect Batman. The only way you could get a back issue is if the had it in stock or it if the made a 2nd print. He is sold out, and didn't get another print you missed out.


----------



## Bender (Sep 2, 2011)

Goddamn you Justice League #1 for being sold out.  

@ Comic Book Guy

Eh, probably get the same reception the issue of Batman Hush that pit Supes vs Bats against each other.


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## Devil Kings (Sep 2, 2011)

As a Superman fan i can't wait for Action Comic, but the artwork is a turn off.

Comparing Action Comic art, to JL art, AC falls short.

As for the Batman Superman fight, let's just hope they don't fuck it up.


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## Bender (Sep 2, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> As a Superman fan i can't wait for Action Comic, but the artwork is a turn off.
> 
> Comparing Action Comic art, to JL art, AC falls short.
> 
> As for the Batman Superman fight, let's just hope they don't fuck it up.



I actually would die for the prospect of Superman breaking Batman like a twig. :33

Supes has been Bats bitch for far too long


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 2, 2011)

Bender said:


> I actually would die for the prospect of Superman breaking Batman like a twig. :33
> 
> Supes has been Bats bitch for far too long



Shit had me rolling on the floor.

1. Superman saying Shazam.
2. Retconning that shit away.
3. Inspiring Wonder Woman into making him a sandwich.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 2, 2011)

Pissed at all the purple in Batgirl 

If she starts eating waffles I'm gonna bite something


----------



## Mael (Sep 2, 2011)

For God's sake, Gabz.  Stay away from small animals then.



Devil Kings said:


> Shit had me rolling on the floor.
> 
> 1. Superman saying Shazam.
> 2. Retconning that shit away.
> 3. Inspiring Wonder Woman into making him a sandwich.



#3 sure is good for sales.


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## Bender (Sep 2, 2011)

Hopefully, the Supes X Wondy crap in this reboot isn't as narm as it was back in the golden age.


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## Devil Kings (Sep 2, 2011)

Bender said:


> Hopefully, the Supes X Wondy crap in this reboot isn't as narm as it was back in the golden age.



Hey, i like the SupesxWondy. Guess am one of the few that actually like it.


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## SageMaster (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm excited about Action Comics #1.

I loved Grant's Morrison comment of the current world being similar to the 30's when Superman was first introduced, and thus needed to reintroduce him as he was originally intended. Superman is the  protector of those who need help, delivering justice to the bullies, no matter who they are.

That's why Superman got popular in the first place. Here's hoping Morrison does a good job. :33


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## Bender (Sep 2, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> Hey, i like the SupesxWondy. Guess am one of the few that actually like it.



It was interesting cuz it worked in "Kingdom Come" but doesn't work in mainstream timeline because of how they're from separate books.


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## illmatic (Sep 2, 2011)

_Animal Man should be at the top of everyone’s Pull List, no questions asked._ ~MTVgeek

_Sinestro is fantastic as the Green Lantern lead, Hal Jordan has more personality than he has in ages, and it feels like a whole new book._ ~MTVgeek

_Detective Comics is head-spinningly spectacular from top to bottom._ ~MTVgeek

_Superboy nails everything fans like about Connor Kent, and is like a tripped out scifi tale set in the DCU._ ~MTVgeek

Read More: Video: commentary from “Hunger Games” director Gary Ross, who will lend insight into the footage and answer some burning questions we have about the adaptation


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 2, 2011)

Bender said:


> It was interesting cuz it worked in "Kingdom Come" but doesn't work in mainstream timeline because of how they're from separate books.



YOU CANNOT RUIN MY DREAM, I WON"T LET YOU.


----------



## Bender (Sep 2, 2011)

^



If it weren't for that I don't have a problem with it.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 2, 2011)




----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Sep 2, 2011)

JLA 1 was nice to begin.:ho


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## Glued (Sep 2, 2011)

I know whats going to happen.

Batman pulls out kryptonite, Superman stares at it...nothing happens because the Kryptonite weakness is gone forever.

Superman plucks kryptonite from Batman's hand and proceed to eat it.

If only...if only


----------



## Nightblade (Sep 2, 2011)

maybe his Kryptonian armour protects him from Krptonite/Red Sun radiation.


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## Glued (Sep 2, 2011)

FUCK KRYPTONITE!!!

Does Thor need Kryptonite.
Does the Hulk need Kryptonite 
Does Wonder Woman need Kryptonite
Does Hercules need Kryptonite.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 2, 2011)

*DC Comics Talks Same Day Digital*
_
As part of DC Comics' New 52 initiative to bring new readership to comics and reach the widest audience possible, they're making all of their main DC Universe titles day-and-date digital. This means that each of the New 52 will be available through digital comics provider ComiXology on the same day that you can buy them in your local comic book shop._

Read More:


----------



## illmatic (Sep 2, 2011)

*Hawk And Dove #1, JLI #1 And Batman And Robin #1 Sell Out*

_The books all went to “backorder” at Diamond Comic Distributors yesterday and today, but that’s only ever an indication as stock can shift around the system._

Read More:


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 2, 2011)

Well I guess Liefeld's name still sells then if that's the case.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 2, 2011)

> Hawk And Dove #1





My faith in humanity. Lost.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 2, 2011)

Because taste in art is objective right


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## gabzilla (Sep 2, 2011)

Not when it comes to Liefeld.


----------



## Glued (Sep 2, 2011)

Rob Liefield is the living embodiment of the 90s spirit. LONG LIVE DA MUSCLES!!!


----------



## Parallax (Sep 2, 2011)

actually there is a philosophical thought on art and taste being subjective

its pretty interesting.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 2, 2011)

liefeld disproves that theory


----------



## Glued (Sep 2, 2011)

DUDE, You just can't live on the EXTREME!!! Liefeld is HARDCORE!!! Few people like him have guts to live on THE EDGE!!!


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 2, 2011)

The people who bought Hawk and Dove #1 are obviously men in their midlife crisis trying to bring more extreme and daring into their lives.


----------



## Glued (Sep 2, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> The people who bought Hawk and Dove #1 are obviously men in their midlife crisis trying to bring more extreme and daring into their lives.



No such thing as too much EXTREME!!!


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 2, 2011)

There's extreme, then there's 90's Extreme (the best type of extreme) then there's Liefeld Extreme. Normal extreme is like you and your friends farting real loud in math class. 90's extreme is like you and your friends waking a bear from hibernation then seeing which one of you is the slowest. Liefeld extreme is like you and your friends lighting your faces on fire then seeing who can extinguish their face the fastest with a hammer.


----------



## Glued (Sep 2, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> There's extreme, then there's 90's Extreme (the best type of extreme) then there's Liefeld Extreme. Normal extreme is like you and your friends farting real loud in math class. 90's extreme is like you and your friends waking a bear from hibernation then seeing which one of you is the slowest. Liefeld extreme is like you and your friends lighting your faces on fire then seeing who can extinguish their face the fastest with a hammer.



I see nothing wrong with any of this.

In fact, with guys like Jim Lee, I feel like I have taken a step back in time to glory days of the 90s.

All we need is for Cyborg to get more guns. Lots of guns.

Aquaman needs to lose one of his hands again and gain a hook.

Superman needs to regain some cool electric powers.

Bruce should walk around in a mecha.

Then we are all set.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 3, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> There's extreme, then there's 90's Extreme (the best type of extreme) then there's Liefeld Extreme. Normal extreme is like you and your friends farting real loud in math class. 90's extreme is like you and your friends waking a bear from hibernation then seeing which one of you is the slowest. Liefeld extreme is like you and your friends lighting your faces on fire then seeing who can extinguish their face the fastest with a hammer.



**


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 3, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> DUDE, You just can't live on the EXTREME!!! Liefeld is HARDCORE!!! Few people like him have guts to live on THE EDGE!!!



*DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!*


----------



## Taleran (Sep 3, 2011)

Please don't use Linkara as a positive ever.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 3, 2011)

Hey Linkara used to be funny before the show became half terrible story, half him whining about how much his fans suck, and half continuity alarm joke (worst joke ever).


----------



## Glued (Sep 3, 2011)

Say what you will about the 90s, but shit awesome back then.

Aquaman with a hook. Superman beaten to death. Batman's spine getting busted. Hal Jordan goes insane. Green Arrow blown up in a plane.

Good times, good times.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 3, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Hey Linkara used to be funny before the show became half terrible story, half him whining about how much his fans suck, and half continuity alarm joke (worst joke ever).



Yeah while I feel he can still release some good reviews every once in a while, he seems to have gone down hill a fair bit.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 3, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Say what you will about the 90s, but shit awesome back then.
> 
> Aquaman with a hook. Superman beaten to death. Batman's spine getting busted. Hal Jordan goes insane. Green Arrow blown up in a plane.
> 
> Good times, good times.



Your love of the 90s is nothing if not inspired


----------



## Glued (Sep 3, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Your love of the 90s is nothing if not inspired



That's why I"m so excited about this reboot.

However, that S on Superboy's back, the one that looks taped on. Yeah...that isn't extreme. That is just dumb.

Why would you tape a piece of paper to your back.

The only time people tape paper to other people's back is when they put a kick-me sign on their back.


The preview for Hawkman though, "BRUTALITY HAS A NEW NAME"

Dear GOD I MUST BUY THAT COMIC!!!


----------



## Glued (Sep 3, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> *DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!*



Prepare for a Blast...FROM THE PAST!!!



*BRUTALITY HAS A NEW NAME*​
All we need now is for Guy Gardner to return to his Warrior days. You remember Warrior...right?


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 3, 2011)

warrior was super awful

but i guess he was like a biological externalisation of guy's douchebaggery or something


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 3, 2011)

Warrior does not exist.

PERIOD.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 3, 2011)

I'm not gonna lie the idea of Hawkman title where he flies around and whacks shit is pretty appealing


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## SageMaster (Sep 3, 2011)

I've never liked Hawkman that much, but the simple idea of him flying around and kicking ass sounds like lot of fun.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 3, 2011)

Parallax said:


> I'm not gonna lie the idea of Hawkman title where he flies around and whacks shit is pretty appealing





SageMaster said:


> I've never liked Hawkman that much, but the simple idea of him flying around and kicking ass sounds like lot of fun.



i concur

though i'd like a little less romantic drama with hawkgirl, if possible. that often torpedoed JSA for me


----------



## Stunna (Sep 3, 2011)

Forgive the noob question, but with this DC Reboot, is it anything like Marvel's Ultimate series? More specifically, is there going to be an "Ultimate Batman" sort of deal with a retelling of the story from the very beginning?


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 3, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Forgive the noob question, but with this DC Reboot, is it anything like Marvel's Ultimate series? More specifically, is there going to be an "Ultimate Batman" sort of deal with a retelling of the story from the very beginning?



wellll

it's like ultimate in that this ditches all old continuity to make it more accessible and starts afresh from the origins

but it's not like ultimate in that this isn't an alternate universe. this is the dc universe primary


----------



## Stunna (Sep 3, 2011)

So Batman _is_ being started over from the very beginning?


----------



## tari101190 (Sep 3, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Forgive the noob question, but with this DC Reboot, is it anything like Marvel's Ultimate series? More specifically, is there going to be an "Ultimate Batman" sort of deal with a retelling of the story from the very beginning?


No the entire DC Universe is just new and revamped, it's not a seperate series. This is now the new mainstream universe. It's not starting again, just continuing differently.

There is an Earth One series about Batman coming out, like the Superman Earth One story that will be set in a new realistic universe though. That will show his origins in the first issue.


----------



## Stunna (Sep 3, 2011)

Cool; I'll definitely read it then. I'm glad it isn't the same kind of re-telling that All-Star Batman and Robin was in that it only re-chronicled certain parts of Batman's story.

And hopefully not the same bad writing.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 3, 2011)

Stunna said:


> So Batman _is_ being started over from the very beginning?



Actually no. Only certain characters are really different in the new version of the DCU. They are compressing the timeline some, saying superheroes have only been active for 5 years in the DCU, Batman a little longer.

Some characters will get new origins told, stuff told from the beginning again, others just have had their background changed but have been active a while, and others like all the Batman books, and all the Green Lantern books, pretty much continue like nothing's happened.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 3, 2011)

Stunna is gonna start reading comics?


----------



## Stunna (Sep 3, 2011)

I've already read a few. I'm just not exactly avid.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 3, 2011)

edited to add more info for you stunna.

Justice League is telling the origin of the team and takes place 5 years ago but nothing else Batman's involved in is heavily retconned. Minor things, like the older Robins wore pants now


----------



## Glued (Sep 3, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Warrior does not exist.
> 
> PERIOD.






Yes he does, his name is Guy Gardner.

Of course with the reboot you could pretend that such awesomeness never happened, but I personally will pretend that deep inside Guy Gardner, Warrior still lives.


----------



## Glued (Sep 3, 2011)

Parallax said:


> I'm not gonna lie the idea of Hawkman title where he flies around and whacks shit is pretty appealing



Same here.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 3, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Yes he does, his name is Guy Gardner.
> 
> Of course with the reboot you could pretend that such awesomeness never happened, but I personally will pretend that deep inside Guy Gardner, Warrior still lives.



gardner was one of the more awful things about the 90s

he could almost have been a liefeld creation


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 3, 2011)

wait in any meaningful sense, batman _is_ starting over from the beginning, right?

or are you saying that they're having some weird time dilation where all the major arcs for bruce which don't need retconning because other major superheroes weren't really involved, such as knightfall, no man's land (i know supes was in it but it's a relatively easy retcon), war games and RIP _still happened_

but on the international front of getting to know other superheroes and form the JLA, his experiences having been dialled back

so batman is in some weird limbo of having tons of personal experience in his life but being a virtual newb with the jla stuff?


----------



## tari101190 (Sep 3, 2011)

Only JL is set in the past, retelling their origins.

Action Comics is set in the past retelling Supermans origins.

All other comics are set in present day with nothing changed unless stated otherwise.

So it's the same universe with addons and slight changes. 

You shouldn't assume anything is different unless stated or shown in some way.


----------



## Stunna (Sep 3, 2011)

Oh... well that's better than nothing, just not what I was hoping for.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 3, 2011)

oh...that's pretty confusing, but also a relief. though they still took away wonder woman's boobs, the bastards


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 3, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> wait in any meaningful sense, batman _is_ starting over from the beginning, right?
> 
> or are you saying that they're having some weird time dilation where all the major arcs for bruce which don't need retconning because other major superheroes weren't really involved, such as knightfall, no man's land (i know supes was in it but it's a relatively easy retcon), war games and RIP _still happened_
> 
> ...


Sort of. His experiences with the Justice League will have been somewhat different but he'll still have been in the League since it founded early in everyone's hero careers.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 3, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Oh... well that's better than nothing, just not what I was hoping for.



He's not totally correct because there have been a pretty large amount of changes. A lot of characters are getting rebooted from the start(Superman, Hawkman, Firestorm, Blue Beetle etc), and a lot are going to be really really different, generally younger, less experienced and so on (Flash, Green Arrow).


And even the stuff that hasn't changed, like the Batman books, you should be able to start at the new number 1s without knowing anything about him that the movies dont teach you. 

If you want to read Batman stuff, I strongly recommend you try the main book, Batman, by Scott Snyder. He's a really good writer.


----------



## Stunna (Sep 3, 2011)

I've read Year One and I'm reading Monster Men, but I'll add that to my list as well. Thanks.


----------



## Bender (Sep 3, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I've read Year One and I'm reading Monster Men, but I'll add that to my list as well. Thanks.



Look at these as well:

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns is Frank Miller's 1986 classic, an epic story set in a future where Bruce Wayne has long since retired, and triumphantly returns to the cowl in a new era that needs him more than ever and refuses to tolerate his attitude and presence.

Batman: Dark Moon Rising is a two-part story written and illustrated by Matt Wagner about Batman's first confrontations with supernatural crime and horror, taking place in his first year as the caped crusader. Batman and the Monster Men introduces mad scientist Hugo Strange and his creatures, Batman and the Mad Monk has him fight an ancient vampire. 

Batman: The Long Halloween is a story by Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale set in Batman's earliest years, dealing with the change in Gotham's underworld from organized crime to costumed freaks and his earliest alliances in the war on crime, revolving around the search for a holiday-themed serial killer.

Batman: The Man Who Laughs is Ed Brubaker and Doug Mahnke's one-shot graphic novel featuring Batman's first meeting with his greatest nemesis, the Joker. 

Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth is a graphic novel by Grant Morrison and Dave McKean depicting a more ethereal and cerebral interpretation of Batman, taking a look into his psyche when Arkham Asylum is taken over by its inmates. 

Batman: A Death in the Family is the classic story of Batman's greatest failure, the tragedy of Robin's at the Joker's hands. The four-part story by Jim Starlin with artwork by Jim Aparo was ground-breaking with its depiction of the brutal death of a popular character. 

Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying is the introductory arc of Tim Drake becoming the third Robin after the death of Jason Todd, discovering Batman's secret identity through his own detective work and fighting Two-Face for the first time. 

Batman: Cataclysm is the story of a massive earthquake destroying Gotham City, with crossovers in every ongoing Batman volume leading directly into No Man's Land. The dark knight is pushed to his limits by the natural disaster, exhausting himself to save every life possible from a villain he cannot fight while everything he's ever worked for crumbles down around him. 

Batman: City of Crime is a large story written by David Lapham that features Batman investigating a mystery leading into the heart of a strange drug ring. 
^
I own this book and artwork in addition to story is motherfucking BEAUTIFUL 


Batman: Contagion is a thematic prelude to No Man's Land, with Gotham City decimated by a deadly plague known as the Apocalypse Virus and Batman doing everything in his power to fights its spread and end the infections. 

Batman: The Cult is a four-part series by Jim Starlin and Bernie Wrightson featuring a villain named Deacon Blackfire who organizes the homeless and takes over the city, using indoctrination techniques to break Batman mentally for the first time. 

Batman: Dark Victory is the sequel to The Long Halloween, a second maxi-series by Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale. The story revolves around a new serial killer in Gotham named the Hangman murdering police officers, and takes place during the introduction of Robin. 

Batman: Gothic is a five-issue story written by Grant Morrison and illustrated by Klaus Janson involving an ethereal villain from Bruce's youth named Mister Whisper. 


Batman: The Killing Joke is a classic graphic novel written by Alan Moore telling the definitive Joker's origin story and examining his motivations. In the modern day Joker kidnaps James Gordon and cripples Batgirl, forcing Batman to chase him down in a circus.

Batman: Knightfall is a massive trilogy featuring Batman's ultimate defeat at the hands of Bane, the rise of Azrael as the new Batman, and ending with the triumphant return of Bruce Wayne.

Batman: The Last Arkham introduces several new villains as Batman is determined insane and locked up in the Asylum by Jeremiah Arkham, alongside his greatest enemies.

Batman: Contagion is a thematic prelude to No Man's Land, with Gotham City decimated by a deadly plague known as the Apocalypse Virus and Batman doing everything in his power to fights its spread and end the infections. 


Batman: No Man's Land was an epic year-long crossover between all of the character-related titles. Following the events of Contagion and Cataclysm, Gotham City becomes a desolate wasteland no longer part of the United States. Batman and his allies attempt to bring order into the lawless new society overrun by territorial gang warfare. 

Batman: Son of the Demon is a graphic novel featuring Ra's al Ghul by Mike W. Barr and Jerry Bingham. Batman and Talia al Ghul consummate their marriage, resulting in the child Ibn al Xuffasch. This would later be used as the template for Batman and Son with the introduction of Damian Wayne, although the story was retconned out of continuity during Zero Hour. 

Batman: Ten Nights of the Beast is a four-issue story by Jim Starlin and Jim Aparo introducing the deadly Soviet agent KGBeast as he comes to Gotham and attempts to assassinate President Reagan. 

Batman: Under the Hood is a Judd Winick story featuring the resurrection and return of Jason Todd as the new Red Hood after his murder during A Death in the Family and taking place during Black Mask's control of the city's criminal element. 

Batman: War Games is a big crossover story taking place in the aftermath of a violent shoot-out that leaves all of Gotham's major crime bosses dead. Batman and his team struggle to quell the chaos and rioting as every gang in the city attempts to take advantage of the power vacuum. Prelude to Under the hood btw

Batman: Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader? is Neil Gaiman's meta-fictional take on the death of the character, paying tribute to every era of his publication at the dark knight's funeral. 

SPOILER


*Spoiler*: __ 



Takes place right at the moment Darkseid hits him with his Omega Sanction




Bruce Wayne: Murderer?/Fugitive is a massive story that involves Bruce Wayne elaborately set up alongside his bodyguard and lover Sasha Bordeaux for the murder of Vesper Fairchild by an enemy who knows all of his secrets. 

JLA: Tower of Babel is a story by Mark Waid showing how prepared Batman really is, when Ra's al Ghul steals and uses contingency plans he had created to defeat the entire Justice League in case any one of them ever turned evil. 


*huffs* *huffs* 

And those are all the books for Batman you want to collect


----------



## Stunna (Sep 3, 2011)

Cool thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 3, 2011)

Its funny that the whole point of the reboot was to make it easier for new readers. We still gotta do all this explaining and shit just like before


----------



## Stunna (Sep 3, 2011)

Then they failed.


----------



## Bender (Sep 3, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> Its funny that the whole point of the reboot was to make it easier for new readers. We still gotta do all this explaining and shit just like before



Aye, I mean here we are explaining to Stunna the basics of the DCUverse and a guide on the issues that he should purchase to be caught up. Fuckin fail DC.


----------



## Stunna (Sep 3, 2011)

Shoulda' just given me my Ultimate Batman like I wanted. smh


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 3, 2011)

I don't really think there's that much to explain. There's recommendations for good stories but you don't need any of that shit to get what's going on now, even before the relaunch.


----------



## Stunna (Sep 3, 2011)

Yeah, but stories are always so much more interesting and compelling when you know about the characters they chronicle.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 3, 2011)

Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait

Does Bender believe you need to read all those going into the reboot?


*REALLY?*


I haven't even read all of those and everything was clear as day to me (also I don't really care about Batgirl expect for when Marcos Martin is drawing that book)


----------



## Stunna (Sep 3, 2011)

He didn't say I had to read all those, he was just suggesting good Batman stories.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 3, 2011)

Oh, well you won't need to read anything going into the DCnU as far as I understand it even if the stories are continuing the writers are aware that it is for new people (the fact that the number on the cover is the major barrier has always baffled me and never seen it proven). Sure the Batman books and the Green Lantern books will have nods to what came before, those will be in offhand remarks and not central to understanding the books.

If they are done well.


----------



## Slice (Sep 3, 2011)

Finally read JL#1

That was the best Hal Jordan i have read in years.


----------



## Rod (Sep 3, 2011)

The good thing about Batman is that the hero had alot of luck in getting multiple long running stories that were sucessful along these decades, if you ask comic fans about the Dark Knight stories many will suggest colletions of Knightfall, No Man's Land, Earthquake, R.i.P, Contagium, BftC, etc...

 It's really dificult to happen and is particular to the character within few others majority being from Marvel, when ask about some long running stories from Superman or Wonder Woman for example it's harder to come up with same number or series or having similar easy and fast thinking on titles, what tends to even more or less the things are usually the graphic novels from each one of them, indeed.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 3, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Yeah, but stories are always so much more interesting and compelling when you know about the characters they chronicle.



Just saying, DC hasn't really failed with batman just because hes not back to the beginning. And you don't really need to read all of those, I wouldn't even recommend a lot of them. Long Halloween can fuck off. I didn't think Knightfall was anything special either.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 3, 2011)

Petes why do you hate The Long Halloween?


----------



## Taleran (Sep 3, 2011)

It is a mystery story where the central mystery doesn't make any fucking sense at all. It is an impossible mystery and therefore a terrible story.

Also it is Jeph Loeb formula on full display.

Pick character at correct time
Tap superstar artist who likes me
GUESTSTARS EVERYWHERE
Story that makes no fucking sense.


----------



## Bender (Sep 3, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait
> 
> Does Bender believe you need to read all those going into the reboot?
> 
> ...



No... 

As Stunna said 

those were recommendations. 

Also seriously Petes hate Long Halloween?

I can understand hating Hush but Long Halloween is the premiere of Two-face not mention has a kick-ass mystery story.

@Taleran

How the hell is it an impossible mystery story?

It's clear who the hell did what.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Grace was first Holiday, and Alberto Falcone was the second




Hush is the only fucking awful story he's done of Batman


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 3, 2011)

Taleran said:


> It is a mystery story where the central mystery doesn't make any fucking sense at all. It is an impossible mystery and therefore a terrible story.
> 
> Also it is Jeph Loeb formula on full display.
> 
> ...



Pretty much plus I don't really like Sale. I haven't read it in a while to see that it makes sense, but I hate Loeb's commercialized hack formula for stories.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 3, 2011)

The epilogue completely kills the mystery and makes it impossible.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 3, 2011)

I found TLH and Dark Victory pretty entertaining. 

An early review of .

Sounds promising!


----------



## Bender (Sep 3, 2011)

Taleran said:


> The epilogue completely kills the mystery and makes it impossible.




*Spoiler*: __ 



So you don't think it's possible that Gilda could have been the killer? Even though you have the Calendar man flip flopping with his hints onto who the killer is?

It made it clear three people were "Holiday": 1. Harvey Dent's wife, Gilda, who started the ball running with regard to committing the first couple of murders, even after being injured in a bomb explosion caused by Falcone's goons and only stopped when she thought Harvey killed a man to avenge the attempt on her life; 2. Alberto Falcone, Carmine's weakling and unwanted son, who faked his death as a victim of Holiday into order to co-opt the identity for his own, and 3. the newly disfigured Harvey Dent aka Two-Face, who murders Carmine Falcone on Halloween a year after the first murder, making Dent "Holiday", too.




The last one was an unintentional "Holiday" serial killing on
*Spoiler*: __ 



Dent's part




EDIT:

The only part is reasonable to find non-sensible was Holiday's Pistol

Based on the Ruger Mk. II, not the Mk. III, which didn't exist at the time of the graphic novel.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 3, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Gilda killing the people she was supposed to is impossible. When one of the victims of her *killing* dies guess where she is.

IN INTENSIVE CARE IN THE HOSPITAL thanks to that nail bomb. Now according to the story she breaks out of the hospital kills some dudes, walks back, in the rain mind you and sneaks back to her bed with NO ONE noticing and not triggering anything in her MACHINES MONITORING HER VITALS





It doesn't work.


----------



## Bender (Sep 3, 2011)

Taleran said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Are you kidding me? Gotham Hospitals suck. It has been proven time and time again they aren't capable of curing any patient let alone preventing them from escaping. 

Also she was wearing a coat and hat which IIRC she believed to be Harvey's and hid it among his belongings since she believed he was doing the killings. And considering how the killer's face was hidden so well I doubt they would be able to positively identify them. And even if they did they could've thought it was Harvey seeing as how they were his clothes. I should remind you that he was possibly coming and going since he was working on the case along with Gordon and Batman at the time.





Read her monologue again.

EDIT:

Here are scans from it:


----------



## Taleran (Sep 3, 2011)

You believing that that is possible is HILARIOUS but that is beside the point.


----------



## Rod (Sep 3, 2011)

Personally, I feel sorry for Loeb tho what should comment after a couple of lines. Could notice the earlier works even if some clearly contrary voices became aclaimed, while his lastest are indeed considered subpar by the majority of opinions, it's somewhat sad for me to witness (and that's me should I emphasis again) a person who had if anything potential to at least please a certain niche of the comic fandom having a clear difference of talent in before and after the multiple tragedies that unfortunately happened in his life, in my opinion certainly affected him in some gloomy/sorrowful extent.


----------



## Bender (Sep 3, 2011)

Taleran said:


> You believing that that is possible is HILARIOUS but that is beside the point.



Whatever... It's less retarded than Hush IMO.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 3, 2011)

Hush was meh because it was so obvious that it was Bruce's friend, he should have been able to figure that shit out in a second.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 3, 2011)

Bender said:


> Whatever... It's less retarded than Hush IMO.



It's the typical cock move from Loeb, take the actual killer off the table as a real suspect then come up with some incredible bullshit reason that he actually was the killer in the first place.

Just like Hush

Just like Red Hulk

Because he can't actually write a mystery. He cheats and uses it to string you along anyway.


----------



## Bender (Sep 3, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> Hush was meh because it was so obvious that it was Bruce's friend, he should have been able to figure that shit out in a second.



Exactly.

Not to mention that whole bullshit with involving Superman and then Ra's Al Ghul. 

Batman should've shattered his fists immediately after punching Superman. Also seriously using Krypto to track down Poison Ivy? Bruce you're a fucking detective and you're relying on a dog. 

Also who besides him would have so much insight on his contacts besides those in the Bat family? Given enough time and right determination they'd find out.

Riddler's bullshit cancer and also being one of the masterminds was pathetic.



> It's the typical cock move from Loeb, take the actual killer off the table as a real suspect then come up with some incredible bullshit reason that he actually was the killer in the first place.
> 
> Just like Hush
> 
> Just like *Red Hulk*



Haven't seen Red Hulk IIRC General Thnderbolt is him right?

In any case I dunno I just thought it wasn't so stupid cuz _______ wasn't actually one of the head masterminds like Riddler was in Hush out of motherfucking nowhere. Plus, she came across that way in either case seeing as how both her and mob boss boy didn't look like they were right in the head.

Mediocre probs

I do appreciate the godfather shout outs tho.


Hush sickens me like no tomorrow especially with the ridiculous amount of commercializing it's getting.

Just look at what this dumb fuck from Amazon says about it:



> A New Batman Classic !, August 26, 2009
> By P. M. Bradshaw "P.M. Bradshaw" (Columbus, OH, USA) - See all my reviews
> (REAL NAME)
> This review is from: Batman: Hush (Paperback)
> ...


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 3, 2011)

Yeah and in Hulk he shows Thunderbolt talking to the red hulk early on, which naturally made people go "oh its not thunderbolt after all!"

but it was a robot controlled by modok


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 3, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> It's the typical cock move from Loeb, take the actual killer off the table as a real suspect then come up with some incredible bullshit reason that he actually was the killer in the first place.
> 
> Just like Hush
> 
> ...



I was having trouble writing mystery. Just figured it out, thanks Loeb.


----------



## Nightblade (Sep 4, 2011)

and people buy his shit anyway. just like people buy Liefeld's shit.

these two should get on a comic together. they'll sell a fuck ton of shit.


----------



## Bender (Sep 4, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> I was having trouble writing mystery. Just figured it out, thanks Loeb.



Yeah, friend definitely showed me what NOT to do when writing a mystery story.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 4, 2011)

I hope we get to see all of Hamner's designs at some point


----------



## illmatic (Sep 4, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 







 This could be fanmade

EDIT: _
With September's relaunched "New 52" titles just a couple weeks away, we're still pushing for any and all information we can get our hands on. Let's face it, we've been as patient as we could be since this was all first announced.

If you've seen the solicitations, you know there appears to be some changes happening. We asked Scott some questions on both and as an added bonus, got an exclusive first look at some early art for Superboy #2!_



_Scott Lobdell, writer for Teen Titans, Superboy and Red Hood and the Outsiders, asked you guys for questions that he would answer on Saturday. It turns out you guys had plenty of questions. Scott has been sending over his replies, detailed ones, and has every intention of answering them all. 

are a load of responses and he will answer the rest next week._


----------



## illmatic (Sep 4, 2011)

"_I, VAMPIRE was awesome... it even made me a little frightened when I read it! Seriously, huge sleeper hit here_". 

~ *Scott Lobdell*, writer for Teen Titans, Superboy and Red Hood and the Outsiders


----------



## illmatic (Sep 4, 2011)

Q: *Aqualad will appear eventually right?!? Will he look like Brightest Day Kaldur or Young Justice Kaldur? Thanks!*

A: _Eventually, I am certain. In fact,* SCOOP HERE*: I was originally asked to include him in the first issue -- one of our earliest conversations between me and the editors. He was going to be part of the Core Five! But then it was decided, if I recall, that he was going to be such an important player in another book, that it should be left up to that book's writer to define exactly who Aqualad is and how he fits into the world. If I were writing him over in TEEN TITANS, his adventures in the other book would conflict with the team book. So, for the sake of Kaldur's continuity and growth he will not be appearing in the book just yet. (That said, I can't wait for the day he's a Teen Titan! Is he an awesome character, or what?!)

And your welcome! LOL!_


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 4, 2011)

It bothers me how he says LOL in caps like hes 14.


----------



## Glued (Sep 4, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Q: *Aqualad will appear eventually right?!? Will he look like Brightest Day Kaldur or Young Justice Kaldur? Thanks!*
> 
> A: _Eventually, I am certain. In fact,* SCOOP HERE*: I was originally asked to include him in the first issue -- one of our earliest conversations between me and the editors. He was going to be part of the Core Five! But then it was decided, if I recall, that he was going to be such an important player in another book, that it should be left up to that book's writer to define exactly who Aqualad is and how he fits into the world. If I were writing him over in TEEN TITANS, his adventures in the other book would conflict with the team book. So, for the sake of Kaldur's continuity and growth he will not be appearing in the book just yet. (That said, I can't wait for the day he's a Teen Titan! Is he an awesome character, or what?!)
> 
> And your welcome! LOL!_



Kaldur's only claim to fame is that he's Black Manta's son.

I miss Lagoon Boy or Koryak. But knowing Geoff Johns. Lagoon Boy and the rest of the Landlovers probably don't exist and Koryak being an illegitimate son in his teens most definitely got retconned out of existence.

Oh well hopefully Geoff fleshes Kaldur a bit more.

Dear God I hope Geoff does not try to bring back Artie Joe again.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 4, 2011)

artie joe?


----------



## hehey (Sep 4, 2011)

Wasn't his name in the comics Jackson hyde or something stupid like that?


----------



## Glued (Sep 4, 2011)

hehey said:


> Wasn't his name in the comics Jackson hyde or something stupid like that?



After his birth apparently he was named Kaldurrun, this was before he was given to the Hyde family by Mera.



Petes12 said:


> artie joe?



During Infinite crisis, the Spectre nuked Atlantis. Destroying a portion of the Aquaman cast. This includes Garth's baby, Prince Cerdian. Also includes Vulko, Aquaman's mentor. 

Aquaman goes into a depressive state, later becomes a mutated monster and later dies.

Geoff Johns tried to replace Aquaman with a clone of Aquaman named Arthur Joseph Curry. This series was known as Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 5, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I hope we get to see all of Hamner's designs at some point



Blue > Red


----------



## Bender (Sep 5, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Blue > Red



Agreed  

Nightwing w/red looks like something Jason Todd would wear.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 5, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I hope we get to see all of Hamner's designs at some point




The redesign its almost... just missing the plastic nipples ...


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 5, 2011)

oh god those stupid teen titans costumes


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 5, 2011)

I like both versions


----------



## mali (Sep 5, 2011)

The blue looks better to me.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 5, 2011)

really dont need red eyes thats my only complaint


----------



## Bender (Sep 5, 2011)

illmatic said:


> The redesign its almost... just missing the plastic nipples ...



You jerk you reminded me of Joel Schumacher's fail Bat flicks


----------



## Slice (Sep 5, 2011)

Bender said:


> You jerk you reminded me of Joel Schumacher's fail Bat flicks



Why is that a bad thing? I remember coming out of the cinema fully aware that i had just seen the greatest thing ever (Batman Forever)!

But then again i was only 12.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 5, 2011)

_Wednesday marks the first Detective Comics No. 1 since March 1937, and the first to ever star the title's cowled mainstay, Batman_

_Daniel is the writer and artist for the newest adventures of the Caped Crusader as part of DC Comics' "The New 52" relaunch. Detective Comics is the first Batman-centric title to debut from the new line of comics, preceding the first issues of Batman, Batman and Robin and Batman: The Dark Knight._

Read More:


----------



## Bender (Sep 5, 2011)

Slice said:


> Why is that a bad thing? I remember coming out of the cinema fully aware that i had just seen the greatest thing ever (Batman Forever)!



Actually, I meant Batman & Robin.

Shit was rape on my eyes. I mean they had Coolio in it as some random dude who hosts bike races. Also Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy was narm incarnate. 





> But then again i was only 12.



There's your problem.


----------



## Heavenly King (Sep 5, 2011)

let's see what they do with the superman books.. I am pretty sick of the whole lex and the random characters who can't stand a chance fighting superman. I think it's time for superman to step up and have a way better story and fight way stronger beings.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 5, 2011)

Are the comics actually coming out wednesday or is it all being pushed back to Thursday cause of the holiday


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 5, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Are the comics actually coming out wednesday or is it all being pushed back to Thursday cause of the holiday



The chart for the relaunch inside either Flashpoint or Justice League said the seventh, so unless something major happens I assume it's still wendesday


----------



## Parallax (Sep 5, 2011)

Well it always says that for weeks with monday holidays but they always show up on thursday

but I do remember DC saying they will be trying to actually have it come on wednesday so they don't lose momentum.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 5, 2011)

*on why the second issue of the Justice League title ships 7 weeks after issue 1*

"_Justice League is a third week book and we moved it from the third week in September to the last week in August to tie in with Flashpoint. After that, it goes to its regularly scheduled week and stays there._" 
~ Co-Publisher Dan DiDio

*With the Jaime Reyes origin being retold, any way Ted Kord can now be his tutor?*

"_Jaime is the one and only Blue Beetle_." ~ Co-Publisher Dan DiDio

*on how "Death of Superman" fits in continuity now*

"_We are keeping the "spirit of the story" in place. Superman died, adn got better. But the events and people around it have changed includign the fact that the Reign of Superman did not replace him in death but were inspired by it._" 
~ Co-Publisher Dan DiDio

*Any word if the Vertigo books are going digital day-and-date in September as well?*

"_No plans for Vertigo day and date yet._" ~ Co-Publisher Dan DiDio


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 5, 2011)

So...does this mean Ted Kord is alive somewhere in the new universe then, as according to Didio he never became the Blue Beetle.

Still sucks though as Booster no longer has a best buddy.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 5, 2011)

I really want the Blue and the Gold to ride together.

Booster and Beetle is one of my favorite comic book duos.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 5, 2011)

I don't see why JL is a third week title it really seems like they're setting themselves for a nosedive in readership


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 5, 2011)

Isn't it stupid to have JL issue #2 come a long time after issue #1?

They have to keep the new fans interested for them to stay. They'll lose interest if they wait for long.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 5, 2011)

Parallax said:


> I don't see why JL is a third week title it really seems like they're setting themselves for a nosedive in readership





SageMaster said:


> Isn't it stupid to have JL issue #2 come a long time after issue #1?
> 
> They have to keep the new fans interested for them to stay. They'll lose interest if they wait for long.




Jim Lee probably needs the extra time since he is said to not be the fastest artist when it comes to a monthly title. 

Note - or maybe I am thinking of someone else entirely

He is not only just the artist of JL but a also Co-publisher which would naturally cause delays I presume


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 5, 2011)

Well I know originally they didn't plan to do Justice League the same week as FP 5.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 5, 2011)

but even then they still would have released it within the first week of the relaunch.

Iono it just seems weird to have your flagship title come out with such a weird gap and have it come out near the end of the month


----------



## Bender (Sep 5, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Isn't it stupid to have JL issue #2 come a long time after issue #1?
> 
> They have to keep the new fans interested for them to stay. They'll lose interest if they wait for long.




Welll yeah pretty much..


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 5, 2011)

Parallax said:


> but even then they still would have released it within the first week of the relaunch.
> 
> Iono it just seems weird to have your flagship title come out with such a weird gap and have it come out near the end of the month



I dont think they would have though if I were them I would have moved things around a little to make it a first week book.

why wouldnt they make vertigo books day and date?


----------



## Parallax (Sep 6, 2011)

it's possible that the demand is not high enough for it.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 6, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> So...does this mean Ted Kord is alive somewhere in the new universe then, as according to Didio he never became the Blue Beetle.
> 
> Still sucks though as Booster no longer has a best buddy.



I think he is trying to say that Ted is still dead and that there isn't a Blue Beetle around to tutor him. I think he's trying to get rid of the idea that Ted is coming back.


----------



## Mael (Sep 6, 2011)

Wait a min...Booster Gold lost his friendo?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 6, 2011)

Ted Kord will be dead as long as Ice was. Maybe longer.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 6, 2011)

I wouldn't mind if Ted came back, but I wouldn't want him to be Blue Beetle. I'd like to see him as a maxwell lord type character for the JLI, basically being their financial backer, as well as their Q or Oracle as the situation calls for it.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 6, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I wouldn't mind if Ted came back, but I wouldn't want him to be Blue Beetle. I'd like to see him as a maxwell lord type character for the JLI, basically being their financial backer, as well as their Q or Oracle as the situation calls for it.



This is exactly what i;d like. I mean still have his history as Blue Beetle, but make it so that he's retired and is now funding his pals instead.


----------



## MB99 (Sep 6, 2011)

Some reviews of tomorrows books from bleeding cool: 

THIS is the MMO Square was talking about pushing


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 6, 2011)

Stormwatch Versus the Moon...please let it have the angry face from Majora's mask.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 6, 2011)

MB99 said:


> Some reviews of tomorrows books from bleeding cool:
> 
> THIS is the MMO Square was talking about pushing



 ahahahahahaha

edit: aww not working. well liefelds zombie is hilarious


----------



## illmatic (Sep 6, 2011)

*Batgirl #1 by Gail Simone. Ardian Syaf and Vicente Cifuentes*

_Very possibly the best title published by DC today._ ~BleedingCool


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 6, 2011)

Sounds like Stormwatch gonna suck.

Gonna buy 2 issues of Batgirl, one to save and sell the other for yours truly


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 6, 2011)

illmatic said:


> *Batgirl #1 by Gail Simone. Ardian Syaf and Vicente Cifuentes*
> 
> _Very possibly the best title published by DC today._ ~BleedingCool



Yeaaaaa I saw that preview, not sure I trust their judgment there. Surprised about the complaints with Stormwatch.

redhead gordon is so weird

edit: this is a fun little detail


----------



## Parallax (Sep 6, 2011)

well looks like I wont be getting Stormwatch

still might get Batgirl

Animal Man and Action Comics are a definite buy


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 6, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> This is exactly what i;d like. I mean still have his history as Blue Beetle, but make it so that he's retired and is now funding his pals instead.



And then we'd have one issue where he has to go back in action (as ted kord w/ gadgets) and kick ass to save the team. And it would be amazing.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 6, 2011)

if he were alive i suspect there'd be even more pressure to turn him back into blue beetle.

then again ray palmer is a non-atom supporting character in Frankenstein, maybe that'll stick.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 6, 2011)

illmatic said:


> *Batgirl #1 by Gail Simone. Ardian Syaf and Vicente Cifuentes*
> 
> _Very possibly the best title published by DC today._ ~BleedingCool



The other pages will have to be covered in gold to make up for the horrid dialogue in the preview.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 7, 2011)

I started to read Jaime's Blue Beetle run. Loving it so far.

Hope the new series is as good.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 7, 2011)

I was hoping the new comics would be avaliable for digital download by now. I can't wait to get my hands on Action Comics.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 7, 2011)

I was hoping the new comics would be available for digital download by now. I can't wait to get my hands on Action Comics.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 7, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I was hoping the new comics would be available for digital download by now. I can't wait to get my hands on Action Comics.



Same here.


----------



## Agmaster (Sep 7, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Stormwatch Versus the Moon...please let it have the angry face from Majora's mask.


Would mark.


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 7, 2011)

Action Comics and Stormwatch. That's pretty much the point of today.

I just noticed some story about how a Swamp Thing run written by China Mieville, who already had 5 issues worth of drafts with a plan to do a dozen or so issue epic, was cancelled to have Scott Snyder do one for the reboot... Imagine telling Grant Morrison that instead of doing Batman Inc. that Judd Winick instead will write it. It's literally that much a drop in likely quality.

I guess Scott Snyder will still do a decent enough job.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 7, 2011)

Snyder is great I don't see how you wouldn't check it out


----------



## Parallax (Sep 7, 2011)

comparing Snyder to Winnick

:|

you should know better Neo


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 7, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Snyder is great I don't see how you wouldn't check it out


I will give it a chance. I even admitted that he'll likely do a decent enough job. Just not as good as a Hugo, Arthur C. Clarke, etc. award winning writer who is of an entirely different level.



Parallax said:


> comparing Snyder to Winnick
> 
> :|
> 
> you should know better Neo



Both can actually write a good Batman issue storyline. It doesn't mean that either one of them is at the same level as two certain bald writers from the UK. China Mieville is literally the Grant Morrison of fantasy at the moment as zany ideas, mind benders, and skillful writing go. The world has been blessed by two guys who could literally be brothers... that Patrick Stewart gave birth to.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 7, 2011)

Snyder was writing the better Batman comic for a couple of months so I don't see it as a huge drop in quality

either way I'm excited for it


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 7, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Snyder was writing the better Batman comic for a couple of months so I don't see it as a huge drop in quality


There's a difference between doing a Batman series and a Swamp Thing that was originally supposed to be a Vertigo epic. I have nothing against Scott Snyder but he's still not that good by comparison as writing goes for based on what I've seen for his American Vampire and Batman stuff compared to what Mieville has written. It's not a fair comparison but it never was meant to be one though.


> either way I'm excited for it



I hope it's great. That's about the gist of my expectations.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 7, 2011)

Man the previews I have seen have been bland as hell


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 7, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Man the previews I have seen have been bland as hell



Which first issue previews?


----------



## Silvermateus (Sep 7, 2011)

Is it just me, or was Action Comics a tad under-whelming, just like Justice League?


----------



## Taleran (Sep 7, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _Last page of Tec #1_ 








HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 7, 2011)

That was the "big shock" everybody was talking about?

Gore, so _shoooocking_.


----------



## Mael (Sep 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> That was the "big shock" everybody was talking about?
> 
> Gore, so _shoooocking_.



No...this was the big shock.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 7, 2011)

it is way out there for a mainstream dc title though

the last time i saw something like that was in Preacher


----------



## Mael (Sep 7, 2011)

Ummmm...we're all mods now?


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 7, 2011)

board glitching

try and use any mod powers if you don't believe me


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

It's kinda surprising in that it's a pretty well known character's face I guess. 

Not like I expected 'tec to be good


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 7, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> it is way out there for a mainstream dc title though
> 
> the last time i saw something like that was in Preacher



The gore? Nah, I still remember what happened to the Wonder Twins in Teen Titans. Cheap gimmick.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

Well at least the cover finally makes sense


----------



## Mael (Sep 7, 2011)

Fellas, you just need to worry about Gabzilla here being a mod.  Think when Kara Zor-El went over to Darkseid. 

Gore being a shocker?!?

PFFFFTT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Jesus God...I'm a fan of Warhammer 40K...hard to get gorier than that.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 7, 2011)

Hmmm...you know for an issue that featured Joker in it, Detective Comics was surprisingly kinda dull...on the other hand now the cover makes perfect sense


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

we're all too genre savvy to not immediately think "oh ok, I wonder how he'll get his face back". Otherwise maybe it'd work better.

I just read it though and yeaahhhhhh it's exactly what you'd expect from Tony Daniels on every level.

By far my favorite page though is Batman saying he can handle the nerve toxin he's been hit with... BECAUSE HE'S BATMAN! He narrates that to himself


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 7, 2011)

Meanwhile Action Comics in comparison is the exact opposite of dull and it turns out to be a fun read

I do feel it was overhyped though.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 7, 2011)

Overhyped how?


And why are we all green, by the way?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 7, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Overhyped how?
> 
> 
> And why are we all green, by the way?



From what i've heard it was hyped to be the best shit since sliced bread...it's not. It's a fun read, and well worth people's money if they decide to buy it, but don't believe the hype.

Forum hick-up apparently.

Also looking into Stormwatch, I really wish they'd kept Midnighter's old costume, the new one really looks stupid on him and the spikes are dumb...give the man back his trench coat


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

Yeah what's DCnU got against trench coats 

Does anyone know if the books were pushed back to thursday here in the states?


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 7, 2011)

Why does the comic I want to buy the most has to be the most expensive? 

Buying Action Comics #1 in a while.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 7, 2011)

No mention of Steph or Cass in Batgirl 1 and it's unknown if they are keeping their Batgirl stories.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

Barbara was Oracle for 3 years why would anything the other batgirls did not be cannon?


----------



## Mael (Sep 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> No mention of Steph or Cass in Batgirl 1 and it's unknown if they are keeping their Batgirl stories.



Please, Gab, in due time.

Good things come to those who wait...or whatever other Catholic verse I can belt out.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 7, 2011)

JLI rocked. 

Having Beetle on the team would've been nice, though.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 7, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> JLI rocked.
> 
> Having Beetle on the team would've been nice, though.



I personally wasn't that impressed by it...though it was still better than Detective Comics in my opinion


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 7, 2011)

Apparently there are rumours that Ted Kord has been rebooted out of the DcNU



Petes12 said:


> Barbara was Oracle for 3 years why would anything the other batgirls did not be cannon?



Gail Simone was asked if they were Batgirls and she said "I cannot say yet"

That doesn't sound good to me.


----------



## Mael (Sep 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Gail Simone was asked if they were Batgirls and she said "I cannot say yet"
> 
> That doesn't sound good to me.



One of two things:

1. Pure indecisiveness
2. Gauging fan reaction

Is Simone THAT bad for girl power?


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The gore? Nah, I still remember what happened to the Wonder Twins in Teen Titans. Cheap gimmick.



something like that, in teen titans? wow, and they still censor mild swearing


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 7, 2011)

Swearing is bad. Wonder dog mauling teenagers is Ok, though!



Mael said:


> One of two things:
> 
> 1. Pure indecisiveness
> 2. Gauging fan reaction
> ...



Sounds like number 2 to me.

Though Simone should know what kind of shitstorm DC would create if they erase their Batgirl past.


----------



## Mael (Sep 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Sounds like number 2 for me.
> 
> Though Simone should know what kind of shitstorm DC would create if they erase their Batgirl past.



I'm going to go ahead and bet it's a hybrid.  Writers are chock full of indecisiveness towards the next step.  Gail Simone is no exception.

And you say SHOULD know as if it's an assumption.  You know what they say about that, Gabz.

Besides, you're right on the last part.  It'd be literary suicide.  The Batgirls present a rare niche in the DC community of women who don't have flashy powers or some weird alien background, but are ahead of the curve than the Lana Langs or Linda Parks despite me loving me that WestPark.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Swearing is bad. Wonder dog mauling teenagers is Ok, though!



This is why I'm pretty happy with the new Justice League and even really ok with Lobdell's TT. DC's big team books have no where to go but up.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 7, 2011)

Mael said:


> I'm going to go ahead and bet it's a hybrid.  Writers are chock full of indecisiveness towards the next step.  Gail Simone is no exception.
> 
> And you say SHOULD know as if it's an assumption.  You know what they say about that, Gabz.
> 
> Besides, you're right on the last part.  It'd be literary suicide.  The Batgirls present a rare niche in the DC community of women who don't have flashy powers or some weird alien background, but are ahead of the curve than the Lana Langs or Linda Parks despite me loving me that WestPark.



Gail Simone interacts with the fans and knows both Cass and Steph are popular characters, that's what I meant. If DC wants to keep Barbara as the One True Batgirl, I wouldn't blame her for not wanting to talk about it.

It's a bad idea not because they don't have superpowers, but because getting rid of them while keeping all the Robins intact + not giving them any books (while the male characters all have at least one) would look really really bad.

Besides, it would kill part of what the characters are. Steph has Spoiler so it wouldn't be _as_ bad for her. But Cass? Erasing her time as Batgirl is practically erasing her character.


----------



## Mael (Sep 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Gail Simone interacts with the fans and knows both Cass and Steph are popular characters, that's what I meant. If DC wants to keep Barbara as the One True Batgirl, I wouldn't blame her for not wanting to talk about it.
> 
> It's a bad idea not because they don't have superpowers, but because getting rid of them while keeping all the Robins intact + not giving them any books (while the male characters all have at least one) would look really really bad.
> 
> Besides, it would kill part of what the characters are. Steph has Spoiler so it wouldn't be _as_ bad for her. But Cass? Erasing her time as Batgirl is practically erasing her character.



Well yeah, Cass had nothing BUT Batgirl and being the daughter of Lady Shiva/Cain.  See I didn't know you were presenting from the angle of the Robins.  Yes that too makes sense, where the superpower argument is there just to mention a little uniqueness of the Batfamily.  It'd almost present itself as semi-sexist IF some were to interpret it as such.

But I'm still holding to the tenet that it will eventually reveal itself.  My guess is that rushing everything and everyone in might create a clusterfuck, because as good as some of the DC writers are, I doubt their ability to handle the open floodgates.  As for Ms. Simone, discretion is the better part of valor yes...but I'm thinking that she's thinking it's far too soon to start it all up again.  Two Batgirls (Cass and Babs) or this continuous evolution in such a short period is bad news bears.  All in due time I say.  If Cass and Steph were so popular, they will get their moment in the sun.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 7, 2011)

I'll buy Batgirl tomorrow, but in the meantime, why the rush? I like Steph and Cass as much as the next man (well, not CBG and Cass ), but I KNOW there's no way the Batgirl conundrum can be resolved in 2012.


----------



## Mael (Sep 7, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I'll buy Batgirl tomorrow, but in the meantime, why the rush? I like Steph and Cass as much as the next man (well, not CBG and Cass ), but I KNOW there's no way the Batgirl conundrum can be resolved in 2012.



Res ipsa loquitur. 







But the world may end in 2012 w/o Batgirl resolution!


----------



## Parallax (Sep 7, 2011)

Yo Petes the comics were released today so you should go pick them up if you can.

I went to my lcs shortly after it opened and stuff was flying out the shelves

and this is no bunk ass comic shop either this is a really well stocked store


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Gail Simone interacts with the fans and knows both Cass and Steph are popular characters, that's what I meant. If DC wants to keep Barbara as the One True Batgirl, I wouldn't blame her for not wanting to talk about it.
> 
> It's a bad idea not because they don't have superpowers, but because getting rid of them while keeping all the Robins intact + not giving them any books (while the male characters all have at least one) would look really really bad.
> 
> Besides, it would kill part of what the characters are. Steph has Spoiler so it wouldn't be _as_ bad for her. But Cass? Erasing her time as Batgirl is practically erasing her character.



Couldn't they relaunch them as Babs's proteges somewhere down the line? A fresh start as it were. Playing the two off each other as fledgling bats.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 7, 2011)

Just bought Action Comics #1. 

Loved the issue. I'm excited about his new personality based on the original incarnation. Defending the opressed at all costs. One thing that kinda bugged was how Clark Kent reminded me so much of Peter Parker. Living with and old lady in an apartment.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 7, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I personally wasn't that impressed by it...though it was still better than Detective Comics in my opinion



I just love Booster, so I was gonna like it even if it was shitty. I liked the humor so I'll keep reading.

I liked Batman's character in Detective Comics, but yeah, it was nothing spectacular. Joker didn't bring out his usual awesomeness. However, the mystery hooked me to read next issue.


----------



## Mael (Sep 7, 2011)

Whimsy said:


> Couldn't they relaunch them as Babs's proteges somewhere down the line? A fresh start as it were. Playing the two off each other as fledgling bats.



Possible...but I think that'd mess with what was a fantastic dynamic.  Cass and Steph got along great as their respective personalities.  Putting a rivalry in there might destroy it.

Besides, was Babs ever really a "teacher" of sorts the way Bruce was?


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 7, 2011)

I just read Action Comic as well. I liked it a lot more then Justice League. I'm still waiting for Detective Comics to load, and the others I have are OMAC Project and Swamp Thing. We'll see how those are.



SageMaster said:


> Just bought Action Comics #1.
> 
> Loved the issue. I'm excited about his new personality based on the original incarnation. Defending the opressed at all costs. One thing that kinda bugged was how Clark Kent reminded me so much of Peter Parker. Living with and old lady in an apartment.



To be fair this is because he's not att he Daily Planet yet. He seems to be getting paid on a stary-by-story basis and not getting an actual salary.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 7, 2011)

Action Comics was fun

good comic


----------



## Bender (Sep 7, 2011)

I seriously hope they don't take that much of a dump on Steph and Cass.


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 7, 2011)

Mael said:


> Possible...but I think that'd mess with what was a fantastic dynamic.  Cass and Steph got along great as their respective personalities.  Putting a rivalry in there might destroy it.
> 
> Besides, was Babs ever really a "teacher" of sorts the way Bruce was?



Eh, who knows.

They could just get over the rivalry in like half an issue and be back to the old dynamic.


----------



## Mael (Sep 7, 2011)

Black Titan said:


> I seriously hope they don't take that much of a dump on Steph and Cass.



I don't think they will.  The both of them were well received and a certain Japanese writer isn't at the helm.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 7, 2011)

I don't know what the Batgirl talk is all about. 

All I know is she got crippled in the Killing Joke, but was awesome as Oracle.


----------



## Mael (Sep 7, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> I don't know what the Batgirl talk is all about.
> 
> All I know is she got crippled in the Killing Joke, but was awesome as Oracle.



Basically the ongoing fear is that the bringing back of Barbara Gordon as Batgirl will destroy the possibilities for Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 7, 2011)

Mael said:


> Well yeah, Cass had nothing BUT Batgirl and being the daughter of Lady Shiva/Cain.  See I didn't know you were presenting from the angle of the Robins.  Yes that too makes sense, where the superpower argument is there just to mention a little uniqueness of the Batfamily.  It'd almost present itself as semi-sexist IF some were to interpret it as such.
> 
> But I'm still holding to the tenet that it will eventually reveal itself.  My guess is that rushing everything and everyone in might create a clusterfuck, because as good as some of the DC writers are, I doubt their ability to handle the open floodgates.  As for Ms. Simone, discretion is the better part of valor yes...but I'm thinking that she's thinking it's far too soon to start it all up again.  Two Batgirls (Cass and Babs) or this continuous evolution in such a short period is bad news bears.  All in due time I say.  If Cass and Steph were so popular, they will get their moment in the sun.



You know what? I wouldn't mind the waiting... if all the male Robins didn't have their own books. It's funny how DC believes they can't handle three Batgirls but they can handle four Robins.



Whimsy said:


> Couldn't they relaunch them as Babs's proteges somewhere down the line? A fresh start as it were. Playing the two off each other as fledgling bats.



I guess. But people would still be pissed that they are regressing the girls while the boys keep their histories intact.


----------



## Mael (Sep 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> You know what? I wouldn't mind the waiting... if all the male Robins didn't have their own books. It's funny how DC believes they can't handle three Batgirls but they can handle four Robins.



Clearly guys are easier to flesh out than silly girls. 

But yeah, these sorts of things breed a cynic, am I right?

But I'm going to be rare here Gabz and instead of slam it like I would Naruto I say you'll get your moment.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 7, 2011)

Just got through with Detective Comics. It was average until the end. The end really hooked me in.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 7, 2011)

Just got done with Batgirl, pretty good I thought, and i'm happy the Killing Joke is still canon in this universe.

I'm sure they'll mention Cass and Steph eventually Gabz don't worry about it.

Is it wrong that flasher jokes kept popping into my mind whenever The Mirror kept making his "See your true face" pose


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> You know what? I wouldn't mind the waiting... if all the male Robins didn't have their own books.



It's not like all 4 of them are Robin still. Also Tim only has TT, he's not really loads better off here...


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 7, 2011)

I just got done with Swamp Thing and OMAC Project. I'll start with Swamp Thing:

It's the least favorite out of all I read from the reboot so far (keep in mind I won't be reading guaranteed garbage titles like Hawk and Dove or Men of War). For one it was boring. That's the chief complaint. Other then that I have no idea why Superman was in it or why he could fly. Either someone derped or this takes place long after Action Comics, which I don't get why it would. I'll probably wait to see if it gets any better before I buy another issue.

OMAC was a bit better. It was pretty much OMAC guy smashing the entire time (he's probaby stronger then Superman at this point). It kept my attention and the story is actually something bigger then OMAC guy smash.\

In short, I recommend OMAC but not Swamp Thing.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 7, 2011)

Action Comics takes place in the past Chubz, so it's not set in the modern time like most of the titles (Swamp Thing in your case) are


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 7, 2011)

My mistake. Swamp Thing was still pretty boring nevertheless.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 7, 2011)

You really liked Detective Comics

so I wont be listening to you 

:|


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 7, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> It's not like all 4 of them are Robin still. Also Tim only has TT, he's not really loads better off here...



But their past as Robin is intact.

And at least Tim is not in limbo.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 7, 2011)

I just found the Time Lady on Animal Man. 

Gonna play "Where's Waldo?" and reread the previous issues.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

I've been calling her Waldo Woman lately.


----------



## Mael (Sep 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> But their past as Robin is intact.
> 
> And at least Tim is not in limbo.



And to add, we have Nightwing and Red Hood for the first two for the respective follow up.  The ladies?  Tenuous, so no one cannot call an apple an orange in this regard.  Ladies don't have the same luxury save for Barbara.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 7, 2011)

Parallax said:


> You really liked Detective Comics
> 
> so I wont be listening to you
> 
> :|



Me?



			
				me said:
			
		

> Just got through with Detective Comics. It was average until the end. The end really hooked me in.



To be fair to Swamp Thing if the end had as much of an impact as the end of Detective Comics (it didn't) I would have probably said virtually the same thing about the two.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 7, 2011)

Just read two Golden Age Superman stories where he fights gambling and crook stock brokers.

He trolls the bad guys to oblivion. Gotta love Golden Age.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 7, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> I just found the Time Lady on Animal Man.
> 
> Gonna play "Where's Waldo?" and reread the previous issues.



All Thirteen Appearances Of The Strange Woman In This Week’s DC Comics

-> 

_Here are all thirteen appearances of The Strange Woman Of Flashpoint, appearing in all the DC Universe titles shipping this week._


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 7, 2011)

lol no wonder I couldn't find her in Batgirl...


----------



## Glued (Sep 7, 2011)

Static had his armed chopped off.


----------



## Glued (Sep 7, 2011)

Holy crap, the time lady is standing right behind Virgil's window while his dad was eating pancakes.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 7, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Holy crap, the time lady is standing right behind Virgil's window while his dad was eating pancakes.



Did you get your extreme fix from Hawk and Dove?


----------



## Glued (Sep 7, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Did you get your extreme fix from Hawk and Dove?



Not yet, I only had three bucks in my pocket when I went to the store. I had a 5 as well, but some dude on the street said that he needed bus money. Later I see him near the liquor store begging some other guys for money.

I might buy it next week when Aquaman comes out.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

> IGN: Recently, Barbara played a large part in the Stephanie Brown Batgirl series. While we've gotten a hint here or there, do you have any interest in rekindling that relationship or integrating past Batgirls like Stephanie and Cass Cain into other series?
> 
> Simone: When the relaunch was announced, a lot of readers naturally became concerned about their favorite characters, and we sort of responded badly by saying they were, "benched," which I think gave the wrong impression, like they'd be forgotten. Steph and Cass shouldn't be benched, they've earned their place and are great characters. So I said, don't be surprised if no one else uses them, if they show up in Batgirl.
> 
> But thinking about it, and hearing from so many Steph and Cass fans, I think they deserve better than occasional guest shots. Some other writers agree. Can't say too much, but the hope is to get them both unbenched soon.


**


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

Also, good- 

Action Comics, Swamp Thing, Animal Man, Batgirl

minor complaint but Rags Morales really likes to draw people... cross-eyed. Kinda annoying. Did not think Swamp Thing was boring at all, in fact I might say it was the best of the week. It was at least the best looking. 

Ok- Stormwatch. Kinda felt like it was just hampered by being the first issue of a team book, and the art bothers me a little, something about the faces, even though in most ways it isn't bad art.

Bad- Detective Comics, Justice League International

Oh JLI. How far you've fallen, from Winick's take even. I could go on and on about what I hated in JLI. I bet Hawk and Dove was better.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 7, 2011)

All the ones that you said were good I bought earlier petes

and I agree completely 100% with you

I'm scared D=


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

You're always so surprised but I feel like we generally have pretty similar tastes...


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 7, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> **



Promises, promises.

Remember when they said there were great plans for Cass?

So yeah.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

What I thought was most interesting was that she said it about both of them. And I can't imagine either one carrying their own series alone without the batgirl moniker. Would be pretty amazing if they actually did do a spoiler/black bat book. 

Obviously she can't say too much for that exact reason, it's not a sure thing.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 7, 2011)

She confirmed that there are no plans for a team book.

She hinted one of them is close to being "un-benched".


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

Where was this?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 7, 2011)

This week has been really difficult to gauge in terms of quality. What is good and what is "okay" seems to vary wildly between who you talk to, though it seems like there is little "bad". My buddies and I pooled our stuff, and I took home 5 of the books. I'll be looking at the other books tomorrow, though here's what I got:

*Action Comics* - The good shit. I love this version of Superman already, and frankly I wish we had gotten him years ago. Not to say I didn't like Supes before, but this version's activeness just catches you so quickly. At times I felt things were a little confusing (I took a second read on the train part), but all the little hints at other Superman stuff interests the hell out of me. Quick question, though: Who the heck are the two guys and the blonde that Mr. Mxyzptlk's aunt is referring to? That's one thing I couldn't figure out.

*Detective Comics* - Eh. I wouldn't call it bad by any stretch - in fact, it's probably Tony Daniel's best stuff. I wouldn't call it mind-blowing, though, even with that rather... odd cliffhanger. I'm willing to hang on to it, but this looks like an early drop to me, if only because I can't afford to have comics I only like for too long.

*Batgirl* - People are really raving about this one, and it just didn't catch me like it did other people. I can hear Simone's voice in the dialogue, the concept is interesting, and I like the villain... but I just wasn't wowed by it. I'm going to keep picking it up and hope that the roommate gets killed off quickly.

*Justice League International* - Someone once said that Dan Jurgens doesn't write bad comics or good comics: he just writes competent ones. That sounds about right, and it's disappointing here. The characters don't pop to me, despite having a great cast. Gavril feels like he's going to annoy the shit out of me, as people always seem to write Russians as overly-jolly Yakov Smirnov impersonators. I'm going to pick this up for another issue, but Jurgens needs to go beyond his safe zone to get me to pick this up again.

*Stormwatch* - An interesting comic with occasional moments of spotty art. I agree with Petes that at moments the art just seemed... off. Other than that, though, I'm really interested. I think Stormwatch is a great idea for the DCU, and frankly I think Cornell is the right guy to execute it.

If I were to rank these, I think I'd go Action, Stormwatch, Batgirl, Detective, and JLI. Seriously, Jurgens, I hope you prove me wrong here.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 7, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Where was this?



She posts in the CBR forums


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 7, 2011)

Read Action Comics 1


Liked superman's clothes 

Sorry


----------



## Parallax (Sep 7, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> You're always so surprised but I feel like we generally have pretty similar tastes...



We actually do for the most part

although we disagree on quite a bit as well


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

Jurgens does write bad comics. Just not Loeb bad. They're boring and hammy.


----------



## Thor (Sep 7, 2011)

Action Comics #1 was really good.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 7, 2011)

TEC didnt even feel like TEC, it felt like the Batman main book. I didnt hate it, but it was eh.

Never thought id say it but Superman > Batman (this week )


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 7, 2011)

Action Comics #1 didn't disappoint one bit. Now this was a good intro to 52 rather than what came out last week.

Swamp Thing is weird. The writing isn't bad or anything but I really don't see how it's supposed to make much sense to new readers. I feel like continuity stuff is still in there about what happened with Swamp Thing, no matter how ambiguous they try to make it for the dialogue.

It doesn't really stand on its own as a completely new series without strings attached. I think it's kind of a problem also when you have Superman just randomly pop up among other stuff that isn't really the new reader friendly material that's supposed to be advertised.

Christ, what's with the weird negativity descriptions about the green and plant life? "Angry, cruel, and violent."

It isn't going to be easy for someone that actually enjoyed what Alan Moore did for Swamp Thing as far as putting a bullet into the typical "good and evil" plox.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 7, 2011)

neodragzero said:


> Action Comics #1 didn't disappoint one bit. Now this was a good intro to 52 rather than what came out last week.
> 
> Swamp Thing is weird. The writing isn't bad or anything but I really don't see how it's supposed to make much sense to new readers. I feel like continuity stuff is still in there about what happened with Swamp Thing, no matter how ambiguous they try to make it for the dialogue.
> 
> ...



I think you pointed out why I didn't like Swamp Thing. I never read Swamp Thing before so I guess a lot of stuff went over my head.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 7, 2011)

I never read Swamp Thing and thought it was fine. It felt like jumping onto a new run of a series, there's past stuff but meh you'll live.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 7, 2011)

I didn't even understand what the fuck was going on in Swamp Thing...I mean I suppose it was decent, but it felt like I was reading something and missing an entirely different story I should have read before this.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

My first time reading any Swamp Thing and I wasn't confused. I did read Brightest Day though, and knew the basic origin of Swamp Thing. I guess that helps.


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 7, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I think you pointed out why I didn't like Swamp Thing. I never read Swamp Thing before so I guess a lot of stuff went over my head.


I just don't understand why any of the somewhat odd continuity was there at all. It shouldn't have been necessary to tell the truth if this is actually meant to be a reboot. It's just plain weird. Whether or not someone is confused isn't the point. The story is simple enough to follow. It's just that it has stuff in it that was pretty odd to keep and bother anyone with.

Also, why even have Superman among other certain DC heroes show up in this issue at all? It kind of seems like a giant waste of time when it really doesn't really do anything as ambiguous "nature is freaking out" meandering conversation goes. That one scene in particular is a mix of unnecessary rambling on what the reader can easily find out in a better way and past story baggage.



typhoon72 said:


> I never read Swamp Thing and thought it was fine. It felt like jumping onto a new run of a series, there's past stuff but meh you'll live.


It was okay but it didn't come off being one of the new books that will survive past a year...

Why a new run though? I thought the whole point of this new 52 book and most others, excluding Grant Morrison Batman stuff and some GL stuff, was supposed to be a new beginning. Why should a new reader be bothered with references to a "white haired" woman, the green, and other continuity baggage if that's exactly the kind of thing this reboot is supposed to avoid?

It's almost as if they generally expected to attract more people who read the past Swamp Thing stuff rather than new readers who don't need ramblings about the green.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 7, 2011)

Only stuff that sucks starts at the beginning 

Why erase everything Moore did, right? I think Superman was really there as a way to info dump on readers, catch them up on what's going on with Holland, and where his head's at. And ground the story in the DCU. It did all that well... so whats the problem?


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 7, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> My first time reading any Swamp Thing and I wasn't confused. I did read Brightest Day though, and knew the basic origin of Swamp Thing. I guess that helps.


I went in knowing nothing about Swamp Thing aside from that Alan Moore used to write him. The general plot wasn't confusing, weird shit is going on around the world, the main char was Swamp Thing at one point and is in denial that he still is swamp thing, more weird shit involving a dinosaur or something is going on. If you know the continuity it was probably a pretty good issue. There just wasn't a lot to hook me.



neodragzero said:


> I just don't understand why any of the somewhat odd continuity was there at all. It shouldn't have been necessary to tell the truth if this is actually meant to be a reboot. It's just plain weird. Whether or not someone is confused isn't the point. The story is simple enough to follow. It's just that it has stuff in it that was pretty odd to keep and bother anyone with.
> 
> Also, why even have Superman among other certain DC heroes show up in this issue at all? It kind of seems like a giant waste of time when it really doesn't really do anything as ambiguous "I think something weird is going on" meandering conversation goes. That one scene in particular is a mix of unnecessary rambling on what the reader can easily find out in a better way and past story baggage.


Now that you mention it, instead of Superman randomly being there to tell us a bunch of birds died, ect... they could have shown us all of that. probably would have made it a bit more fun.


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Only stuff that sucks starts at the beginning
> 
> Why erase everything Moore did, right?


I thought the point was to generally erase a lot of what many writers have done. That's kind of what you do with a massive story reboot.

Heck, this issue strangely spits on one of the key things that made Moore's run so good.


> I think Superman was really there as a way to info dump on readers, catch them up on what's going on with Holland, and where his head's at. And ground the story in the DCU. It did all that well... so whats the problem?


It wasn't really that great nor even that necessary of an infodump. Is it so hard to have a new origin story or something? That's basically what's being done with so many of the books. That would seem to be the advertised point to a lot of potential new readers.

Superman suggesting there's a potential crisis isn't really doing much. All the more so when Holland will likely just be given more concrete info on what's going on anyway as pretty much suggested with the ending.

An infodump about past continuity is kind of weird when it was nicely enough narrated by Holland about the formula stuff. The stuff about saving lives and such easily could of been narrated along with the other narrated Holland thoughts. Heck, a lot this generally can be done well with show rather than tell. I could sworn "show, don't tell" was a good fundamental. Overall, it just makes the book feel like it needs characters from other books rather than stand on its own two feet. I would be surprised if the book lasted longer than a year without a suggestion it won't be published anymore.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 8, 2011)

Putting Swamp Thing not being my favorite issue today aside:

As you can probably tell by my sig (and soon to be avy if NF won't quit 500 internal server erroring me) I enjoyed OMAC Project a lot more then I probably should have. I highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys mindless invincible characters destroying shit. Also it involves Cadmus and Brother Eye so I can only imagine there will be something resembling a story in the future.


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 8, 2011)

I'll definitely give it a read. I also still need to read Stormwatch, Batgirl, Animal Man, etc. I read Detective Comics. I won't be reading the second issue...


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 8, 2011)

I never read previous Swamp Thing stories, but read the new #1. It definately seemed like I needed to know about him before reading it. Batgirl had the same problem if you look it from a new reader perspective. "Wait what? Batgirl was crippled"

Kinda ruins the point of having the reboot in the first place.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Jurgens does write bad comics. Just not Loeb bad. They're boring and hammy.



Lobdell and Jurgens are writers I strongly associate with a certain era of comics as far as being relevant.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 8, 2011)

So from what I read today.

*Action Comics* - I enjoyed the issue less so than I thought, it is very kinetic but I feel that for that action comic pace it requires a better artist for drawing that kind of stuff and Morales isn't up to it. Also once someone points out the cross eyes to you it is hard to not see. B-B+

*Animal Man* - The way the coloring works with the art turned me off of this book so hard.

*OMAC* - I read it from the Images instead of the words and I enjoyed it quite a bit

*Man of War* - Interesting art style, pretty bland story

*StormWatch* - The art here is really really weird, plot is kinda interesting

*Swamp Thing* - Best art of the day and the story worked and got people up to speed very well.


Didn't bother with the other ones.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm tempted to download Hawk and Dove. It may have hilariously bad potential and no one here seems to have read it to let us know.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 8, 2011)

Reading it feeds Liefeld's immortality, you don't wanna.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 8, 2011)

I acutally liked Batgirl #1, sorry guys. The only thing that was kinda off was the dialogue IMO. Babs' monologues were fine but everything she said outloud felt so cheesy and not in the good way. I understand she's trying to psyche herself up but she sounds like an 16-18 year old, (I guess like Steph) or something. And maybe she is supposed to be that young? IDK. I was thinking she was early 20s but maybe thats my error.

The plot feels familiar but I still want to see how it goes.

Also did you guys know Batgirl was sold out? And they are going for like $10 on ebay. There were a lot on the racks at my LCS . I know what im doing tomorrow.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 8, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I'm tempted to download Hawk and Dove. It may have hilariously bad potential and no one here seems to have read it to let us know.



What the hell, I'll download it.

Bracing for 90's EXTREME TO THE MAX shit.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 8, 2011)

neodragzero said:


> I thought the point was to generally erase a lot of what many writers have done.



Not if the old stuff is actually worth going back to and reading.

Also on Stormwatch's art, while I did criticize it some, particularly the slightly odd faces, the artist does handle the sci-fi stuff really well, kinda easy to see why he was chosen for that book in particular. 

Also on Morales I thought he was fine in action scenes actually, it's the other stuff that isn't good.

Lex delivering Superman to Lane at exactly 8:00 was pretty badass btw.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 8, 2011)

I broke down and read Hawk and Dove. If you have a heart condition or don't like surprises, don't read the spoiler. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



it sucked.




It wasn't the worst comic ever I suppose, but it's mostly just Hawk being an asshole. Also Deadman is randomly Dove's girlfriend. Is there something I was supposed to know?


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 8, 2011)

Hawk had literally the same "generic angry" expression in every panel even when he's supposed to be talking normally.

Deadman popping out of nowhere with no explanation.

Yeah, it sucked.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 8, 2011)

The sad part is I was looking foward to DC Universe presents just because of Deadman. However now I now sooner or later there will be a Hawk and Dove crossover. No thank you.

However I think we'll agree that zombies hijacking an airplane and crashing into the Washington Monument was pretty cool.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 8, 2011)

Dove and Deadman had a thing in Brightest Day


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Not if the old stuff is actually worth going back to and reading.


That's not particularly a problem. It's just gonna be funny how the old stuff contradicts what Holland said about the green.

EDIT: Stormwatch was okay I guess.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 8, 2011)

I figured Liefeld didn't just make that up. Deadman wasn't the bad part though. The comic was ruined by Hawk being a butthurt ass for no reason the entire time.It's made worse by the fact that he's mad a Dove for doing something that saved his life. Good choice, picking Liefeld, DC.

Edit: Animal man was pretty good.I saw someone say they liked it better then Action Comics. I wouldn't say it was that good, however I will be getting the next issue.

My ranking for the reboot thus far is:
Action Comics
Animal Man
Justice League
OMAC Project
Detective Comics
All the other ones that came out today, I'm sure
Hawk and Dove.


----------



## Penance (Sep 8, 2011)

Waiting for Static Shock (and Maybe Green Arrow).  Men of War showed promise, I thought...


----------



## Cromer (Sep 8, 2011)

Why you hating on Liefeld? He's not the writer, is  he? Sterling Gates is (I expected better, Gates )

And the art was typical Liefeld, so if you're not a fan like me, avoid. Hard.


----------



## Mael (Sep 8, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> She confirmed that there are no plans for a team book.
> 
> She hinted one of them is close to being "un-benched".



Hints...the ultimate fandom cocktease.  Yeah this might take a while so get your recliner, popcorn, and preferred beverage because...well yeah.

This is what happens whenever I show a modicum of optimism. 

In order to bring order to the universe, I must remain cynical.


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 8, 2011)

Eh, I think you guys are being overly defeatist.


----------



## Glued (Sep 8, 2011)

Penance said:


> Waiting for Static Shock (and Maybe Green Arrow).  Men of War showed promise, I thought...



Static Shock was going pretty well. I dislike how Static's mom, sister and another female family member cut him down and bust his chops. Static's bratty sister even mailed a lame picture of Static for his job at star labs for his photo ID, even told them that his middle name was Ovid. 

Static had awesome feats, he has an auto EM shield that protects him from gun fire. He can create ball lightning. He can use plasma. He also seems to know a lot about science.

Oh an apparently some of the criminals are afraid of Hawkman even though Hawkman is not even in the book. They hear about superheroes and immediately one of them is worried that Hawkman might come pay them a visit.

Oh yeah, Static got his arm chopped off.


----------



## Mael (Sep 8, 2011)

Whimsy said:


> Eh, I think you guys are being overly defeatist.



SHUT UP...U DUN NO MAH PAIN FER CASS! 

/complete and utter sarcasm

I should've explained.  I have a running gag going on both here and IRL.  I have a proclivity to show optimism only to have it sort of blow up in my face, thus I joke that I should forever be a cynic. 

Nevertheless, Gail's comment doesn't help the short-term at all, but leaves hope for the long-term.  But hey, that's why we have that term called pacing.


----------



## Glued (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm still waiting for

Hawkman: BRUTALITY HAS A NEW NAME



To Cromer: How much violence, and rage was there in Hawk and Dove on a scale of 1-10?


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 8, 2011)

Whimsy said:


> Eh, I think you guys are being overly defeatist.



Nah, we just know for past experience not to trust in DC.


----------



## Mael (Sep 8, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Nah, we just know for past experience not to trust in DC.



Worse than Kishimoto?


----------



## Bender (Sep 8, 2011)

Mael said:


> Worse than Kishimoto?



I didn't think such an artistic feat was possible


----------



## Mael (Sep 8, 2011)

Black Titan said:


> I didn't think such an artistic feat was possible



Hey man...we put people on the moon.

If we can achieve that success, imagine the fail possible on the flipside.


----------



## Glued (Sep 8, 2011)

Mael said:


> Hey man...we put people on the moon.
> 
> If we can achieve that success, imagine the fail possible on the flipside.



I'm ray palmer welome to pain


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 8, 2011)

That one always gets me


----------



## Penance (Sep 8, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Static Shock was going pretty well. I dislike how Static's mom, sister and another female family member cut him down and bust his chops. Static's bratty sister even mailed a lame picture of Static for his job at star labs for his photo ID, even told them that his middle name was Ovid.
> 
> Static had awesome feats, he has an auto EM shield that protects him from gun fire. He can create ball lightning. He can use plasma. He also seems to know a lot about science.
> 
> ...



, yeah I see.  I'm curious to see how he gets out of that one...

Hawkman fear...


----------



## Stunna (Sep 8, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I'm ray palmer welome to pain


I smell a meme.


----------



## Bender (Sep 8, 2011)

^

Just for some advice Stunna whatever don't check out JLA Cry for justice (which that scan Ben Grimm posted). Shit is simply terrible.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 8, 2011)

So reading through Batwing, it's a decent read, though I don't understand what about this character made him worthy of a book of his own...


----------



## Mael (Sep 8, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> So reading through Batwing, it's a decent read, though I don't understand what about this character made him worthy of a book of his own...



Wizards.

But hey...this is only lending credence to Gabriella's (right? ) argument.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 8, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> So reading through Batwing, it's a decent read, though I don't understand what about this character made him worthy of a book of his own...



I can see it pretty easily. What if batman were dealing with the sort of crime from africa? It's a good setting, very different from if they'd done something like Nightrunner which would've just been another european style city setting.


----------



## Stunna (Sep 8, 2011)




----------



## Bender (Sep 8, 2011)

Stunna said:


>




   

Brilliantly done


----------



## Glued (Sep 8, 2011)

Stunna, that was awesome. I enjoyed that that thoroughly +reps


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 8, 2011)

So let's see Green Arrow was a decent read, and Men at War was pretty good in my opinion

Hawk and Dove though...just ugh, the pacing was all wrong, the writing was bland, and quite frankly the constant angry face on every character that wasn't Deadman got annoying. Now I can't blame Liefeld for all of this, as he only drew this turd...my least favorite of this by far.


----------



## Mael (Sep 8, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> So let's see Green Arrow was a decent read, and Men at War was pretty good in my opinion
> 
> Hawk and Dove though...just ugh, the pacing was all wrong, the writing was bland, and quite frankly the constant angry face on every character that wasn't Deadman got annoying. Now I can't blame Liefeld for all of this, as he only drew this turd...my least favorite of this by far.



Green Arrow hasn't been much of a disappointment when I've read him.  His personality often lends to easier reading much akin to the Flash.

I just wonder when and if Shado is gonna pop by for a "visit." :ho


----------



## Glued (Sep 8, 2011)

Hopefully Green Arrows son, the blonde one, will get his memories and the entire Judd Winick run is retconned.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 8, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Hopefully Green Arrows son, the blonde one, will get his memories and the entire Judd Winick run is retconned.



Connor Hawke returning would be nice to see...though personally I don't think DC wants him to return quite yet.


----------



## Glued (Sep 8, 2011)

Penance said:


> , yeah I see.  I'm curious to see how he gets out of that one...



The same way Roy Harper and Aquaman dealt with losing an arm/hand.

He can go the Aquaman route and become a badass under writers like Peter David and Grant Morrison.

or

He can go Roy Harper route, hopped up on drugs.



> Hawkman fear...



Yeah man, the bad guys were worried other superheroes might start coming in, since they saw Static. Hawkman was the first name they mentioned.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 8, 2011)

lol Roy went batshit insane after he lost his arm man....he's not a good example and neither is his series in which it happened


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 8, 2011)

Uh... no one has seriously made this comparison yet? Young teen with lightning powers who loses his arm?


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 8, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Hopefully Green Arrows son, the blonde one, will get his memories and the entire Judd Winick run is retconned.



Considering Ollie has been de-aged, I believe Connor is gone


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 8, 2011)

Or Conner might be younger. It depends on how old GA is; I haven't read his comic yet.


----------



## Glued (Sep 8, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Uh... no one has seriously made this comparison yet? Young teen with lightning powers who loses his arm?



Who knows, Lightning Lad maybe Static's descendent in the new continuity.


----------



## Glued (Sep 8, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Considering Ollie has been de-aged, I believe Connor is gone



Awe shit, that means Aquaman's son, Koryak doesn't exist either.

I hope they at least kept Arthur Junior's birth and death around.


----------



## Mael (Sep 8, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Considering Ollie has been de-aged, I believe Connor is gone



Son of a bitch.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 8, 2011)

Would I be wrong to assume that Barry and Bruce are the only ones who know of Flashpoint and why the Universe has been "soft rebooted"

Or is DC going with Nah nobody knows anything from Flashpoint.


----------



## Mael (Sep 8, 2011)

Shadow said:


> Would I be wrong to assume that Barry and Bruce are the only ones who know of Flashpoint and why the Universe has been "soft rebooted"
> 
> Or is DC going with Nah nobody knows anything from Flashpoint.



Actual retail price is...

DC pulls the Amnesia Act!


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 8, 2011)

Shadow said:


> Would I be wrong to assume that Barry and Bruce are the only ones who know of Flashpoint and why the Universe has been "soft rebooted"
> 
> Or is DC going with Nah nobody knows anything from Flashpoint.



Barry didn't know the universe was rebooted after Flashpoint. He even said "Everything looks alright", despite there being huge differences in the universes.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 8, 2011)

I just noticed. Barry the Saint is the one that fucked up the universe.


----------



## Mael (Sep 8, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I just noticed. Barry the Saint is the one that fucked up the universe.



Ignorance is bliss.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 8, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I just noticed. Barry the Saint is the one that fucked up the universe.



Oh, the universe was fucked up before he got to it...


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 8, 2011)

But he is behind the last fuck up


----------



## Parallax (Sep 8, 2011)

the greatest of all fuck ups


----------



## Parallax (Sep 8, 2011)

therefore barry still the best of them all


----------



## Glued (Sep 8, 2011)

Geoff Johns is trapped in a Silver Age world with Barry and Hal.

Lord help us all if he brings back Silver Age Black Manta.


----------



## Mael (Sep 8, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Oh, the universe was fucked up before he got to it...





gabzilla said:


> But he is behind the last fuck up



One kid might've broken the cookie jar, but we'll always remember the kid who brought in the ants.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 8, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Geoff Johns is trapped in a Silver Age world with Barry and Hal.
> 
> Lord help us all if he brings back Silver Age Black Manta.



He doesn't really write silver age stories he just uses the most well known characters.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> He doesn't really write silver age stories he just uses the most well known characters.



Yeah. Grant Morrison is far more of a "silver-age" guy than Johns is.


----------



## Bender (Sep 8, 2011)

^

@Guy Gardner
Grant Morrison, next to Gail Simone is probably the only competent writer at Dccomics.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 8, 2011)

Black Titan said:


> ^
> 
> @Guy Gardner
> Grant Morrison, next to Gail Simone is probably the only competent writer at Dccomics.



Eh, I'd disagree strongly with that. Lemaire and Snyder are pretty great, as well as Paul Cornell. Chris Roberson and Sterling Gates are good, and I still like a lot of Geoff Johns' stuff, despite the flak he tends to get. After that, I can name plenty of competent writers... hell, I've probably missed a few already. I think DC has a good amount of writers, the problem is that they lost all momentum following Final Crisis outside of GL and Batman. When only two of the seven principle members of the Justice League have any sort of direction, there is a big problem.


----------



## Bender (Sep 8, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I think DC has a good amount of writers, the problem is that they lost all momentum following Final Crisis outside of GL and Batman. When only two of the seven principle members of the Justice League have any sort of direction, there is a big problem.



I agree whole-heartedly.

Totally lost it after Final Crisis.


----------



## Mael (Sep 8, 2011)

To play Devil's Advocate, Final Crisis was a pretty big undertaking.  I wouldn't be surprised if there was significant fallout afterward and then a rush to try to get things back up and running.  Now I said I was not surprised, mind you, but I didn't say I'd condone that either.

But I'll be patient...it's just Batman/Family that makes me apprehensive.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 8, 2011)

Mael said:


> To play Devil's Advocate, Final Crisis was a pretty big undertaking.  I wouldn't be surprised if there was significant fallout afterward and then a rush to try to get things back up and running.  Now I said I was not surprised, mind you, but I didn't say I'd condone that either.



Hey, I _loved_ Final Crisis. I hardly think it was bad. Perhaps it's better to say that the editorial direction taken during Countdown basically killed the momentum. Final Crisis was great, but the way it was structured it left very little direction on the DC as a whole. Say what you will about Civil War, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign, etc.... they all ended with a direction for the universe. Final Crisis did none of that; Grant had said that he would have done it under the guise of All-Star Superman if he couldn't get it in the main continuity, and it shows as you can completely forget about it and not really miss much.

So to be more specific: Countdown killed a lot of momentum for the DCU outside of a select few titles. The problem is that Final Crisis did not bring any momentum back like Infinite Crisis did with 52 and One Year Later.


----------



## Mael (Sep 8, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Hey, I _loved_ Final Crisis. I hardly think it was bad. Perhaps it's better to say that the editorial direction taken during Countdown basically killed the momentum. Final Crisis was great, but the way it was structured it left very little direction on the DC as a whole. Say what you will about Civil War, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign, etc.... they all ended with a direction for the universe. Final Crisis did none of that; Grant had said that he would have done it under the guise of All-Star Superman if he couldn't get it in the main continuity, and it shows as you can completely forget about it and not really miss much.
> 
> So to be more specific: Countdown killed a lot of momentum for the DCU outside of a select few titles. The problem is that Final Crisis did not bring any momentum back like Infinite Crisis did with 52 and One Year Later.
> 
> But I'll be patient...it's just Batman/Family that makes me apprehensive.


[/QUOTE]

Very true.

Maybe I should've stated it more like that...the lack of momentum giving the outright impression of burnout.  Hey, maybe it did happen.  Final Crisis was, of course, FINAL. 

But yeah better planning, fellas.


----------



## Bender (Sep 8, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Hey, I _loved_ Final Crisis. I hardly think it was bad. Perhaps it's better to say that the editorial direction taken during Countdown basically killed the momentum.



Now that is entirely Didio's fault. That event was a complete and total travesty and further damned Jason Todd's character. Morrison asks for DC to not touch the New Gods until Final Crisis begins. Do they listen? No. They're like c'mon Grant we won't screw things up too bad for you. We'll make FC even better for you by doing this.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 8, 2011)

No, I agree completely.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 8, 2011)

I don't know if it's all Didio's fault

I think a lot of writers really didn't know what to do with a Post Final Crisis DCU

for better or worse


----------



## Mael (Sep 8, 2011)

Damn it every time I see someone type Didio I see it as calling him Dildo.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 8, 2011)

Parallax said:


> I don't know if it's all Didio's fault
> 
> I think a lot of writers really didn't know what to do with a Post Final Crisis DCU
> 
> for better or worse



It's not _all_ his fault, but I think the blame really does rest on his shoulders. No one knew what to do with post-FC DCU because editorial had no direction for it. Again, Marvel Editorial established direction after it's last few big, world-changing crossovers. Even Fear Itself seems to have some direction after it, even though I think it's a rather retarded direction.


----------



## Bender (Sep 8, 2011)

Parallax said:


> I don't know if it's all Didio's fault
> 
> I think a lot of writers really didn't know what to do with a Post Final Crisis DCU



IMO he probably wanted to imitate the style of weekly series 52 which he reportedly hated the hell out of. I mean seriously why can't he ask the staff for their opinions before going ahead with this shit? 

@ Mael


----------



## Blinky (Sep 8, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I just noticed. Barry the Saint is the one that fucked up the universe.



Funnily enough many people see the creation of Barry Allen's flash to be the beginning of the silver age and Crisis of Infinite Earths to be the end of it, which ended with Barry sacrificing himself. 

And now he's responsible for the new universe.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 8, 2011)

Barry is the key to it all.


----------



## Mael (Sep 8, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Barry is the key to it all.



Barry is the Anti-Life Equation.


----------



## tari101190 (Sep 8, 2011)

So i'm thinking the new DC Timeline is something like this:

*Spoiler*: __ 



*Year 1*
•	Justice League
•	Superman (Clark Kent/Kal-El)
•	Batman (Bruce Wayne)
•	Wonder Woman (Diana Prince)
•	Flash (Bart Allen)
•	Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
•	Aquaman (Arthur Curry/Orin) 
•	Green Arrow (Oliver Queen)

*Year 2*
•	Teen Titans
•	Robin (Dick Grayson)
•	Batgirl (Barbra Gordon)
•	Wonder Girl (Donna Troy)
•	Kid Flash (Wally West)
•	Aqualad (Garth)
•	Speedy (Roy Harper)
•	Green Lantern II (Guy Gardner)

*Year 3*
•	Nightwing (Dick Grayson)
•	Robin II (Jason Todd)
•	Troia (Donna Troy)
•	Flash (Wally West)
•	Tempest (Garth)
•	Arsenal (Roy Harper)
•	Green Lantern III (John Stewart)

*Year 4*
•	Teen Titans II
•	Superboy (Conner Kent/Kon-El)
•	Robin III (Tim Drake)
•	Wonder Girl II (Cassie Sansmark)
•	Kid Flash II (Bart Allen)
•	Green Lantern IV (Kyle Rayner)

*Year 5*
•	Red Robin (Tim Drake)
•	Robin IV (Damian Wayne)
•	Aqualad II (Jackson Hyde/Kaldur’ahm) 







While the old timeline was something like this:

*Spoiler*: __ 




*Year 1*
•	Superman (Clark Kent/Kal-El)
•	Batman (Bruce Wayne)
•	Wonder Woman (Diana Prince)
•	Flash II (Bart Allen)
•	Green Lantern II (Hal Jordan)
•	Aquaman (Arthur Curry/Orin) 
•	Green Arrow (Oliver Queen)

*Year 2*
•	Justice League

*Year 3*
•	Robin (Dick Grayson)
•	Wonder Girl (Donna Troy)
•	Kid Flash (Wally West)
•	Aqualad (Garth)
•	Speedy (Roy Harper)

*Year 4*
•	Teen Titans
•	Green Lantern III (Guy Gardner)
•	Green Lantern IV (John Stewart)

*Year 5*
•	Power Girl (Kara Zor-L)

*Year 6*
•	Batgirl (Barbra Gordon)

*Year 7*
•	Flash III (Wally West)
•	Captain Marvel (Billy Batson) 

*Year 8*
•	Justice League II
•	Nightwing (Dick Grayson)
•	Robin II (Jason Todd)
•	Supergirl (Kara Zor-El)

*Year 9*
•	Oracle (Barbra Gordon)

*Year 10*
•	Robin III (Tim Drake)

*Year 11*
•	Young Justice
•	Outsiders
•	Superboy (Conner Kent/Kon-El)
•	Batgirl II (Cassandra Cain)
•	Wonder Girl II (Cassie Sansmark)
•	Arsenal (Roy Harper)

*Year 12*
•	Red Hood (Jason Todd)
•	Impulse (Bart Allen)
•	Green Lantern V (Kyle Rayner)
•	Green Arrow II (Connor Hawke)

*Year 13*
•	Teen Titans II
•	Kid Flash II (Bart Allen)

*Year 14*
•	Batman II (Dick Grayson)
•	Red Robin (Tim Drake)
•	Robin IV (Damian Wayne)
•	Batgirl III (Stephanie Brown)

*Year 15*
•	Black Bat (Cassandra Cain)
•	Aqualad (Jackson Hyde/Kaldur’ahm)


----------



## Glued (Sep 8, 2011)

Arthur and Diana being atlantean and amazon have the potential to be a bit older than the others.


----------



## tari101190 (Sep 8, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Arthur and Diana being atlantean and amazon have the potential to be a bit older than the others.


Are you replying to me?

It's just a rough timeline. I'm sure they're older yeah, but I doubt they started careers too much earlier than supes and bats who are said to be only 5-6 years old. At most I would say only 1 or 2 years difference.

Also, if my timeline is right then I'm guessing Dick became Robin at 15 or 16 rather than 12. Unless he and Batman predate where I started the timeline.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 8, 2011)

Superman's the first superhero now so they'd both have to start after he does.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 8, 2011)

I think Dick Grayson could start before the Justice League. That way when Vic finally becomes Cyborg, you can have him immediately form the New Teen Titans. So my timeline for Batman looks more like this.


*Spoiler*: __ 



*31 Years Ago:*
- Bruce is born.

*21 Years Ago:* 
- Thomas and Martha Wayne are gunned down in Crime Alley.

*13-14 Years Ago:*
- Bruce's training begins.
- While training around the world, Batman meets Talia Al-Ghul and shares a night of passion with her.

*9 Years Ago*
- Bruce returns from his training.

*8 Years Ago:*
- Bruce Wayne debuts as Batman.

*7 Years Ago:*
- Barbara Gordon graduates High School at age 16.

*6 Years Ago:*
- 16 year old Dick Grayson is orphaned and adopted by Bruce Wayne.

*5 Years Ago:*
- The Justice League forms. Shortly afterwards, the Teen Titans form up.
- 18 year old Barbara Gordon starts out as Batgirl.

*4 Years Ago:*
- Dick Grayson moves on to become Nightwing.
- Batman finds 15 year old Jason Todd trying to take a tire off the Batmobile. Allows him to become the next Robin.

*3 Years Ago*
- Barbara Gordon is paralyzed by the Joker.

*2 1/2 Years Ago*
- Jason Todd dies.

*2 Years Ago*
- 14 year old Tim Drake discover's Batman's identity and becomes Robin.
- Bane breaks Batman. Batman is out for an extended period before coming back.
- Cassandra Cain appears and becomes the new Batgirl.
- Stephanie Brown appears as Spoiler.

*8 Months Ago*
- Jason Todd returns as the Red Hood.

*6 Months Ago*
- Damien Wayne appears and becomes Robin.
- Tim Drake becomes Red Robin.

*5 Months Ago*
- Bruce Wayne "dies".

*1 Month Ago*
- Batman returns and forms Batman Incorporated.

I'd put Bruce around 31, older than most of the heroes out there still relatively young.


----------



## Mickey Mouse (Sep 8, 2011)

to truly understand Dc comics what year should I start to read from?


----------



## Glued (Sep 8, 2011)

VastoLorDae said:


> to truly understand Dc comics what year should I start to read from?



Depends, what title do you want to pick up, because its pretty vast.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 8, 2011)

Now. You shouldn't be missing out on too much if anything with the new number 1s, except that there are of course some good stories done in the past. But I think the only book where you might feel like you're missing 'part 1' of the story is Green Lantern. Maybe Batman stuff too.

What're you interested in?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 8, 2011)

Petes is right: If you are starting up DC Comics, you are basically in on the ground floor with every character outside of a few.

*Green Lanterns*
They require a bit more reading, mostly to set up the status quo with the 7 Corps of Light. Anything with Geoff Johns or Peter Tomasi will get you through to where you need to be; if you need an exact order, I can give that to you as well. If you are reading a team book that isn't centered around a GL, though, you should be fine going in cold.

*Batman*
Catching up on Batman isn't really integral to the character, though you can read a few stories to give you more of an idea of what he's recently been through. He did recently "die" and come back, which you can follow by reading any Batman book written by Grant Morrison save for the old Arkham Asylum book. If you need an order on that, you're good.

Otherwise, all the books and characters are largely starting over. Past continuity is vague and generally won't be particularly important: simply assume that most heroes (like Superman) have been active for around 5 years unless otherwise mentioned, and have met most of their big baddies at least once.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 8, 2011)

DC never said "The New 52" was a reboot


----------



## Mickey Mouse (Sep 8, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Depends, what title do you want to pick up, because its pretty vast.





Petes12 said:


> Now. You shouldn't be missing out on too much if anything with the new number 1s, except that there are of course some good stories done in the past. But I think the only book where you might feel like you're missing 'part 1' of the story is Green Lantern. Maybe Batman stuff too.
> 
> What're you interested in?



Flash, Green Lantern, Superman, Batman, wonder woman, and the Justice League...team ups in general



Guy Gardner said:


> Petes is right: If you are starting up DC Comics, you are basically in on the ground floor with every character outside of a few.
> 
> *Green Lanterns*
> They require a bit more reading, mostly to set up the status quo with the 7 Corps of Light. Anything with Geoff Johns or Peter Tomasi will get you through to where you need to be; if you need an exact order, I can give that to you as well. If you are reading a team book that isn't centered around a GL, though, you should be fine going in cold.
> ...



Aw...so it really was an actual reboot. I thought just some new more linear story lines or something. But I do want to read a little of the old continuity. I very loosely followed DC, I preferred marvel more.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 8, 2011)

VastoLorDae said:


> to truly understand Dc comics what year should I start to read from?



In theory you can just purchase the comics that came out yesterday and be able to build your knowledge as the comics release.

Edit: If you want past continuity I'd with Infinite Crisis and 52. Mostly because they're relatively recent, you can get through them without getting lost too much (if you hand wave that there's continuity you haven't read) and they're really good (imo).


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 8, 2011)

No, you're right: It's not a reboot. The thing is that they are likely not going to be referring a lot to past continuity though.



VastoLorDae said:


> Flash, Green Lantern, Superman, Batman, wonder woman, and the Justice League...team ups in general



None of these are really "essential" to reading the new books, but here are some of my big reads:

Flash: Trial of the Flash, anything by Mark Waid during the 1990's, Geoff Johns runs on the Flash with Wally West. Flash Rebirth by Geoff Johns. Final Crisis by Grant Morrison.

Green Lantern: Emerald Twilight. Recharge and Rebirth. Green Lantern Corps #1-Whatever it ended at. Green Lantern #1-Whatever it Ended At.

Superman: Death of Superman. Geoff Johns' recent run on Superman, including what is now an outdated origin story. Birthright (Another outdated but good origin story). Emperor Joker. Whatever Happened to Truth, Justice, and the American Way? Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow (One of two comics which has made me cry)? Final Crisis: Superman Beyond and Legion of 3 Worlds.

Wonder Woman: Ben Grimm would probably do better at this. My only recommendation would be Gail Simone's recent run, particularly the Circle. Avoid Amazons Attack like the plague.

Batman: Batman and Son, The Black Glove, Batman RIP, Last Rites, Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader (The other comic that's made me cry), Batman and Robin, Knightfall Trilogy, Return of Bruce Wayne, Final Crisis. Batman: Black and White (Non-canon, but a lot of great stories).

Justice League: Justice League International by Keith Giffen and J.M. DeMattis, JLA by Grant Morrison. Mark Waid also did some fine JLA stuff. You might want to try Geoff Johns' run on JSA as well; similar to JLA, but different heroes.

Team-ups: Brave and the Bold by Mark Waid. A ton of fun with great team-ups. The Crisis Trilogy of Crisis on Infinite Earths, Infinite Crisis, and Final Crisis, with their crossover stuff (mostly the latter two). After you read Infinite Crisis, 52 is also excellent. Do NOT read Countdown to Final Crisis.



> Aw...so it really was an actual reboot. I thought just some new more linear story lines or something. But I do want to read a little of the old continuity. I very loosely followed DC, I preferred marvel more.



It's not a "hard" reboot, though some things are changing. What I meant was that, for most characters, they won't be heavily relying on past continuity if at all, so you'll be safe if you don't want to rely on it. It's more of a "Things happened in the past, but we're looking forwards."


----------



## Stalin (Sep 8, 2011)

I heard this is mostly selling because they actually advertise it.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 8, 2011)

Stalin said:


> I heard this is mostly selling because they actually advertise it.



That, and comic book stores are actually selling it. One of the biggest problems DC has had is that the direct market has been resistant against them when it comes to buying their comics as opposed to Marvel. They did experiments in overshipping which pretty much showed that if there were simply more DC comics in the stores, more people would be buying them.


----------



## Stalin (Sep 8, 2011)

So why is cyborg is shown with the big players in promotional material?


----------



## Mickey Mouse (Sep 8, 2011)

I will be taking your recommendations, Guy Gardner. Waiting for Ben's and anyone else's.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 8, 2011)

Action Comics 1 was a pretty enjoyable read but i wasn't blown away by it.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 9, 2011)

VastoLorDae said:


> Flash, Green Lantern, Superman, Batman, wonder woman, and the Justice League...team ups in general



Ok. Basically I'd just say you should check out the previous volume of Green Lantern if you're interested in that, and there's some famous Batman books like Year One, Killing Joke, etc. that are always worth checking out and easily get you all the info you need on what the deal is with Batman. 

Although he has recently gone through a pretty big epic story written by Grant Morrison that's changed things up a bit. Basically all you need to know there is that 

1) Batman had a son he didn't know about with Talia Al Ghul who is now Robin and 
2) he's been using Wayne Foundations to fund vigilantes around the globe so they can operate much like Batman does in Gotham and do the same sort of good all over the world. IE Batwing in Africa.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 9, 2011)

Wow. I just saw a commercial on cable T.V. for DC Comics. I hadn't seen one up until now. That's... weird, to say the least.


----------



## Mael (Sep 9, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Wow. I just saw a commercial on cable T.V. for DC Comics. I hadn't seen one up until now. That's... weird, to say the least.



I saw it too, the DC 52.

My girlfriend was completely confus however.


----------



## Bender (Sep 9, 2011)

Stalin said:


> So why is cyborg is shown with the big players in promotional material?



Because Dccomics is under the impression that JL needs a black dude in their ranks. It's the exact reason why Hal Jordan wasn't in the original 7 in the Justice League cartoon.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 9, 2011)

Im curious what Flash #1 will be like.  Is it going to be "Great Job Barry!! You fucked up the timestream and now you're not together with Iris.  Wallow in Self Pity type Barry.

or is it going to be........."Nice......I totally retconned all other Superhero Fuck-ups.  Your Welcome Babs for walking.  You're welcome Aquaman you got two hands again fucker.  You're welcome Bruce and Clark you ain't got kids no more.  You're welcome Dick you got your shitty Bludhaven back.  What's that KidFlash and Superboy? I just retconned you the fuck back from dying. Oh Hey Hal Jordan since you're suck a fuck-up on the corps I'll retcon your ass and put you on Justice League but fucking behave and turn that fucking green light off like Batman says you dick. 

 Yeah that's right I'm Barry Fucking Allen bitches and you just got FLASH-POINTED"

Damn This Lemonade is good 



Too much?  lol


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 9, 2011)

Black Titan said:


> Because Dccomics is under the impression that JL needs a black dude in their ranks. It's the exact reason why Hal Jordan wasn't in the original 7 in the Justice League cartoon.



While true, they didn't necessarily have to pick Cyborg. They could have gone with John Stewart, Mr. Terrific, Black Lightning, or Steel, among others. Johns likes Cyborg a lot, so I'm guessing that's why he was being elevated. It's also likely why Cyborg is a Detroit boy now; Johns is from the Detroit Metro area and a Spartan Alumni.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 9, 2011)

Shadow said:


> Would I be wrong to assume that Barry and Bruce are the only ones who know of Flashpoint and why the Universe has been "soft rebooted"
> 
> Or is DC going with Nah nobody knows anything from Flashpoint.



Though on the other hand Cyborg's deserved a big push for years now anyways


----------



## Glued (Sep 9, 2011)

For Wondy, start with George Perez's reboot and work your way up. Ignore the JMS reboot. Everything about Wondy, between JMS and Pre-Flashpoint, ignore it. Everything from RIGHT NOW and post Wonder Woman 600, ignore it.

A warning. Wondy has been rebooted just as many times as Hawkman, Aquaman, and Doctor Fate. Difference is that Wonder Woman has not been cancelled.

Read Greg Rucka's run. That is when Wondy kills Maxwell Lord. Also this is  when Wonder Woman is able to catch Professor Zoom while blindfolded. Really one of her best reflex feats.

There is also Hiketia, just an excuse to see Wonder Woman put her foot down on Batman's head, but the story isn't all that bad.

There is also JLA: League of One. Same shit as Tower of Babel, only replace Batman with Wondy. The premise of the story is cliche. If the League fights as one, they all die. If Wondy fights the dragon alone, she wins. Prophecy stuff. So Wondy takes the League down one at a time so she can fight the dragon alone.

Gail Simone is a mixed bag. The end of her run devolved to a state where she was fighting cannibal space amazons that the Guardians of the Universe were afraid to fight. The Run starts out pretty well. However it becomes apparent that Gail was turning Etta Candy into a self-insert. Gail also starts wanking Wonder Woman when she killed Ares with an axe. Ares is a skyfather level being and he just died without a fight. The Ares from Perez's run could have killed Wondy with a thought. However with Achilles flying around on a three headed elephant, Gorilla knights, Evil Children from the Shining, Space Amazons, Wondy threatening to castrate Quetzalcoatl or his son (Gail doesn't make it clear)... I must say, Gail's run was like an awesome acid trip. Turn off your brain.


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 9, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> For Wondy, start with George Perez's reboot and work your way up. Ignore the JMS reboot. Everything about Wondy, between JMS and Pre-Flashpoint, ignore it. Everything from RIGHT NOW and post Wonder Woman 600, ignore it.
> 
> A warning. Wondy has been rebooted just as many times as Hawkman, Aquaman, and Doctor Fate. Difference is that Wonder Woman has not been cancelled.
> 
> ...



That sounds amazing.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 9, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> For Wondy, start with George Perez's reboot and work your way up. Ignore the JMS reboot. Everything about Wondy, between JMS and Pre-Flashpoint, ignore it. Everything from RIGHT NOW and post Wonder Woman 600, ignore it.
> 
> A warning. Wondy has been rebooted just as many times as Hawkman, Aquaman, and Doctor Fate. Difference is that Wonder Woman has not been cancelled.
> 
> ...



Sounds positively Liefeldian.






_*MUST BUY.*_


----------



## Glued (Sep 9, 2011)

Yeah and guess what the secret weapon these cannibal space amazons used. Snakes. Their secret weapon that terrifies even the Guardians of Oa, is snakes. Giant snakes. Which will devour everything, which in turn will be turned into food for these space amazons.

And the writing was so cheesy when Wondy fought her long lost aunt FROM SPESS,.

"Her blood is like ice. Amazons have blood of fire."

It was almost as bad as Indric Boreale's speech from Soul Storm in Warhammer 40K

[Youtube]LJMLfACod48[/Youtube]


----------



## Mael (Sep 9, 2011)

Dude...Blud Rehvens cannot be defeated by the likes of Gail Simone.  Nothing aside from deleting Cass from the Bat lineup could defeat the fail of Boreale.

Made up however by Captain Titus. 

I never even knew Diana killed the God of War with an axe.  I mean, that's awesome but a bit hard to stomach.  Acid trip is right.  Still makes me ever curious about Bats.  And for the record, as a Wally West fan, I'm not really bothered to see Barry Allen atm.  Never had anything against even if he put a hurt on the universe. 



BUY SPACE MARINE


----------



## Glued (Sep 9, 2011)

Mael said:


> Dude...Blud Rehvens cannot be defeated by the likes of Gail Simone.  Nothing aside from deleting Cass from the Bat lineup could defeat the fail of Boreale.
> 
> Made up however by Captain Titus.
> 
> ...




Oh yeah, did I mention that Wonder Woman was injured at the time when she killed Ares. She had have the battle axes tied to her arms with bandages.

Oh yeah and this was after Ares was renamed God of Conflict to surpass the Original big three of Olympus and also after he killed Hades, making himself also God of Death. Oh yeah, Wondy also put her axe straight through Ares's helmet, which was forged by Hephaestus himself.

Imagine if Superman killed Darkseid with an axe to the head. Not an Avatar, but the actual Darkseid.

Anyways believe me when I say that there are more than enough badly written Wonder Woman comics that would make even Matt Ward bow down.

There are a lot of bad Wondy books, a lot.

Holy Kittens Catastrophe.


----------



## Glued (Sep 9, 2011)

I just realized something, by restarting the universe, Barry Allen has returned Darkseid to life.

Thanks a lot Barry.


----------



## Mael (Sep 9, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Oh yeah, did I mention that Wonder Woman was injured at the time when she killed Ares. She had have the battle axes tied to her arms with bandages.
> 
> Oh yeah and this was after Ares was renamed God of Conflict to surpass the Original big three of Olympus and also after he killed Hades, making himself also God of Death. Oh yeah, Wondy also put her axe straight through Ares's helmet, which was forged by Hephaestus himself.
> 
> ...



The Warded One?  Clearly you tread upon heresy.  Matt Ward is an extremely haxed writer.  Wait...best not mention lest DC writers learn of him.



Maybe I'm just a wee novice (since I read/watched DC A LOT as a kid but stopped around college) again, but surely Gail and the rest have learned from such hackery...right?



Ben Grimm said:


> I just realized something, by restarting the universe, Barry Allen has returned Darkseid to life.
> 
> Thanks a lot Barry.





And Grant Morrison, ladies and gentlemen:


----------



## Taleran (Sep 9, 2011)

This is interesting and something I hadn't noticed about Snyder's writing.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 9, 2011)

Could easily assume darkseid's still dead in the future, afer FC.

edit: but i'd rather he be in the main universe anyway than off in kamandiworld or whereever

Also tal stop trying to ruin snyder for us. I actually did notice it with 'tec but I figured it was something he was doing for that book... and really, I like it. It's always been effective because he always has something interesting to say in them.


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 9, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I just realized something, by restarting the universe, Barry Allen has returned Darkseid to life.
> 
> Thanks a lot Barry.



You act like Darkseid been back is a bad thing. Well unless they job him way to fucking much.

So does that mean all the New Gods are back. HighFather for instance.

Does that also mean Takion was never created.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 9, 2011)

They're still around 5 years ago at least.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 9, 2011)

Let's play Thanks Barry Allen.

I was finally going on my long awaited date with Power Girl when Flash soft rebooted my universe.  Now I'm back to writing love letter # 1.

Thanks a lot Barry Allen.


----------



## tari101190 (Sep 9, 2011)

This pretty much is a complete reboot. Not sure why they were saying that it is not.


----------



## Mael (Sep 9, 2011)

Shadow said:


> Let's play Thanks Barry Allen.
> 
> I was finally going on my long awaited date with Power Girl when Flash soft rebooted my universe.  Now I'm back to writing love letter # 1.
> 
> Thanks a lot Barry Allen.



I was going to love seeing the dynamics between the lovely Linda Park and that scamp Wally West, but then Flash rebooted the universe.  Now I'm back to waiting for his emergence if ever...unless he's elsewhere with the wife and kids.

Thanks a lot, Barry Allen.


----------



## Glued (Sep 9, 2011)

Mael said:


> I was going to love seeing the dynamics between the lovely Linda Park and that scamp Wally West, but then Flash rebooted the universe.  Now I'm back to waiting for his emergence if ever...unless he's elsewhere with the wife and kids.
> 
> Thanks a lot, Barry Allen.



I was hoping to see Koryak, Lagoon Boy, Blubber and Sheeva all come back and interact with Aquaman. Now they've all probably been retconned out of existence.

Thanks a lot, Barry Allen.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 9, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I just realized something, by restarting the universe, Barry Allen has returned Darkseid to life.
> 
> Thanks a lot Barry.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmZ3Cvekt14[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Glued (Sep 9, 2011)

LOL

What series is that?


----------



## Taleran (Sep 9, 2011)

The word before the colon is usually the title of the series.


----------



## Mael (Sep 9, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> LOL
> 
> What series is that?
> 
> EDIT: Sorry I can't rep you, I have to spread rep first.



It's from the FX show Archer.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 9, 2011)

*Detective Comics Overtakes Batgirl On eBay*

_With reports of sell outs across the country, and despite print runs of up to five times the usual amount for some comics, people are paying premium prices for some of the first issue relaunches.
_

Read More -


----------



## Taleran (Sep 9, 2011)

I read Animal Man again after some of the other offerings of the week and the coloring no longer really bugs me and man that is a pretty great comic.

I am glad I gave it another chance.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 9, 2011)

Animal Man is my fave of the week. Surprising, since I've never read him before.   Action Comics and Men of War some up next.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 9, 2011)

illmatic said:


> *Detective Comics Overtakes Batgirl On eBay*
> 
> _With reports of sell outs across the country, and despite print runs of up to five times the usual amount for some comics, people are paying premium prices for some of the first issue relaunches.
> _
> ...



Are any of these #1s ever going to actually be worth something? I thought the whole "collecting" value of comics was pretty much nonexistent when it comes to current comics.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 9, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> LOL
> 
> What series is that?



You should seriously check out Archer, the first season is up on netflix now and its hilarious.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 9, 2011)

I don't know if this will be relevant to the ongoing plot but I think that was a bit of Black Lantern in Joker's eyes in Detective comics #1


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 9, 2011)

Batwing was cool.



illmatic said:


> *Detective Comics Overtakes Batgirl On eBay*
> 
> _With reports of sell outs across the country, and despite print runs of up to five times the usual amount for some comics, people are paying premium prices for some of the first issue relaunches.
> _
> ...



LOL


----------



## Mael (Sep 9, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> LOL



Yeah...couldn't really convince me to pay PREMIUM PRICING for this.  I mean...no...it's not one of the Jack Kirby classics.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 9, 2011)

Aha! The three people in the nearby apartment referenced by Mxy's aunt are the fucking three founding Legionaries. I knew there was a significance to two guys and a blonde, but I couldn't figure it out. Perhaps his new suit is going to come from the 31st century?

Also, I agree with gab: Batwing is good. I really liked it and it avoided most of the typical pitfalls of Americans writing about Africa.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 9, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Batwing was cool.



This I don't get probably because I hated the art on that thing.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 9, 2011)

Taleran said:


> This I don't get probably because I hated the art on that thing.



I loved the art outside of the weird lack of detailed backgrounds.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 9, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Aha! The three people in the nearby apartment referenced by Mxy's aunt are the fucking three founding Legionaries. I knew there was a significance to two guys and a blonde, but I couldn't figure it out. Perhaps his new suit is going to come from the 31st century?
> 
> Also, I agree with gab: Batwing is good. I really liked it and it avoided most of the *typical pitfalls of Americans writing about Africa*.


 

Odd.

I thought it showed many of the characteristic errors Americans writing about Africa often make. For example, Africa is probably the LEAST homogenous continent in the world, and there's pretty much nothing like an 'African' identity. So Batwing constantly self-identifying as 'African' didn't work. 

Etcetera...


Cool villain though. And I liked the art. No Quitely or Irving or anything, but it was nice.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 9, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Odd.
> 
> I thought it showed many of the characteristic errors Americans writing about Africa often make. For example, Africa is probably the LEAST homogenous continent in the world, and there's pretty much nothing like an 'African' identity. So Batwing constantly self-identifying as 'African' didn't work.



Where did you see that? There are two mentions of Africa, talking about fear and myths. The points, to me, largely hit home and made sense. He himself mentions that he works out of the DRC. 

Oh, and that Tinasha is one of the most crime-ridden places in all of Africa. But that doesn't seem like a homogenizing statement at all. Not only that, but Winick seems to be building up a superheroing tradition in Africa with "the Kingdom". 

What statements did he make that you thought were noninformed?


----------



## dream (Sep 10, 2011)

I'm liking the new Superman, can't wait to see how it progresses.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 10, 2011)

Taleran said:


> This I don't get probably because I hated the art on that thing.



Really? I thought it was pretty great. Most of that super realism stuff doesn't work because it looks too static but somehow this Oliver guy managed to avoid that, and make things look like they're in motion. 

It's true the backgrounds aren't very detailed though, which is too bad for a book that's all about the location.

Its good you gave animal man another chance, that book is great


----------



## Platinum (Sep 10, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Are any of these #1s ever going to actually be worth something? I thought the whole "collecting" value of comics was pretty much nonexistent when it comes to current comics.



Well I guess these issues _could_ be worth something in the future like 20 years down the line.

But yeah I wouldn't pay a premium lol.


----------



## Nightblade (Sep 10, 2011)

Justice League International was loads of fun.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 10, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Where did you see that? There are two mentions of Africa, talking about fear and myths. The points, to me, largely hit home and made sense. He himself mentions that he works out of the DRC.
> 
> Oh, and that Tinasha is one of the most crime-ridden places in all of Africa. But that doesn't seem like a homogenizing statement at all. Not only that, but Winick seems to be building up a superheroing tradition in Africa with "the Kingdom".
> 
> What statements did he make that you thought were noninformed?



It's not statements, is the implicit assumptions behind them. No one...well, almost no one, thinks of Africa in any sort of 'this is my home, gotta fix this!' kind of way.

I'm not making myself clear, am I?


----------



## hehey (Sep 10, 2011)

Ok, so im basically new to American comics tahnks in large part to this reboot.

I must ask, is there always so many god dam narration boxes?, its like every page of every comic except for the team books i guess (ove read Stormwatch and both Justice Leagues) are full of narration boxes.

Im so used to reading manga where theres rarely so much narration everywhere, they let the pictures tell the story usually.

Its gonna take a while to get use to this.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 10, 2011)

hehey said:


> Ok, so im basically new to American comics tahnks in large part to this reboot.
> 
> I must ask, is there always so many god dam narration boxes?, its like every page of every comic except for the team books i guess (ove read Stormwatch and both Justice Leagues) are full of narration boxes.
> 
> ...



Stylistically, it means there's a lot less ambiguity, since this IS a reboot after all. A lot of stuff us vets might take for granted, need to be spelt out at times.

Though it's far more likely the writers of what you read. JL? JLI? Stormwatch? What else?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 10, 2011)

hehey said:


> Ok, so im basically new to American comics tahnks in large part to this reboot.
> 
> I must ask, is there always so many god dam narration boxes?, its like every page of every comic except for the team books i guess (ove read Stormwatch and both Justice Leagues) are full of narration boxes.
> 
> ...



Yeah a lot of 'solo' comics (though there are team books with narration and solo books without it) are kind of from the main character's point of view, like reading a book as opposed to watching a movie. So they use narration boxes to let you know what the characters are thinking.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 10, 2011)

The DC message boards have been revamped. In New 52 style. 
*Sections *
DC Movies, TV and Media
Superman
Batman
Green Lantern
Justice League
The Dark
The Edge
Young Justice
General Topics
Other Characters / Titles


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 10, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 








I just found out Lex Luthor used the power of a locomotive, with the speed of a bullet to trap Superman against a tall building.

I C WHAT U DID THERE MORRISON


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 10, 2011)

Cromer said:


> It's not statements, is the implicit assumptions behind them. No one...well, almost no one, thinks of Africa in any sort of 'this is my home, gotta fix this!' kind of way.
> 
> I'm not making myself clear, am I?



No, I understand what you are saying. People are basically resigned to how things are rather than trying to really improve things, right? I guess I just didn't get that feeling, but I'll keep a lookout for it more in the second issue. To me, it felt like the cops were making as best they could in a bad situation: taking bribes so that they could support their families, and not completely selling out. They are _trying_, and to Kia, that's what matters. To David, he wants to be that higher standard; he's sort of a combination of both Gordon and Batman. He's trying to strive for the ideal, while Kia is okay with the slow change because she sees progress. To me, I thought that was a great way of looking at it.

I thought the most borderline thing was a villain named "Massacre" wielding a machete. That seemed a bit... much, but I'm willing to find out more about him.

The book also had the best image of Batman so far in the entire 52. I fucking love that splash; it is just iconic.



hehey said:


> Ok, so im basically new to American comics tahnks in large part to this reboot.
> 
> I must ask, is there always so many god dam narration boxes?, its like every page of every comic except for the team books i guess (ove read Stormwatch and both Justice Leagues) are full of narration boxes.
> 
> ...



Part of it is the situation with the DC 52, and the other is a sort of stylistic difference due to the art schedule.

The first, Cromer got. A lot of backstory we take for granted is being reexplained for people who are completely new to characters. This month probably has more narration than you would regularly find in a comic, due to having to explain things to people.

The other, though, is due to the scheduling of comics versus manga. Manga has a weekly release schedule, while comics are monthly. Manga has less narration, but occasionally you'll get chapters which are entirely dedicated to monologues and explaining what characters are thinking. And that works for manga, because people are willing to wait a week for something else. 

Comics don't have that luxury. Instead, they typically intersperse their feelings and explanations to things along the way. They have less space, so they have to use what they have as best they can. Again, you'll find comics which don't use a lot of narration out there, too, just this month people need a bit more explanation than normal.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 10, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> No, I understand what you are saying. People are basically resigned to how things are rather than trying to really improve things, right? I guess I just didn't get that feeling, but I'll keep a lookout for it more in the second issue. To me, it felt like the cops were making as best they could in a bad situation: taking bribes so that they could support their families, and not completely selling out. They are _trying_, and to Kia, that's what matters. To David, he wants to be that higher standard; he's sort of a combination of both Gordon and Batman. He's trying to strive for the ideal, while Kia is okay with the slow change because she sees progress. To me, I thought that was a great way of looking at it.
> 
> I thought the most borderline thing was a villain named "Massacre" wielding a machete. That seemed a bit... much, but I'm willing to find out more about him.
> 
> ...



Exactamundo!


----------



## tari101190 (Sep 10, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 10, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's awesome. It reminds me of when in 52 Steel said, "Luthor is the only guy who can take the phrase 'look in the sky!' and make it a bad thing,"


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 10, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> That's awesome. It reminds me of when in 52 Steel said, "Luthor is the only guy who can take the phrase 'look in the sky!' and make it a bad thing,"



Reign of the Supermen, indeed!


----------



## hehey (Sep 10, 2011)

Anyway, other issues. Darkseid is the villain of the first JL arc seemingly. I remember that guy from the Superman cartoons and the Justice League cartoons.

Whats the deal with him, reading up on his hes called a new god on all the wikis and like he has his own planet. And yet there are still these Greek Gods hanging around in Wonder Woman's books.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 10, 2011)

hehey said:


> Anyway, other issues. Darkseid is the villain of the first JL arc seemingly. I remember that guy from the Superman cartoons and the Justice League cartoons.
> 
> Whats the deal with him, reading up on his hes called a new god on all the wikis and like he has his own planet. And yet there are still these Greek Gods hanging around in Wonder Woman's books.



He's one of the primary characters of Jack Kirby's _Fourth World_, a sort of super-cosmic separate realm of god-like personification's of ideas. This also encompasses characters like Mr. Miracle, the Forever people, etc


DCU has many gods. Greek, Egyptian, etc They coexist in an uneasy whatchamacallit...


----------



## illmatic (Sep 10, 2011)

Darkseid is one of the most powerful characters in the DCU & considered as one of Superman's greatest adversaries

    Height- 8'9"
    Weight- 1815lbs
    Eyes- Red
    Hair- None
    Cosmetics-Great size, grayish colored rock like skin

Read More -


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 10, 2011)

hehey said:


> Anyway, other issues. Darkseid is the villain of the first JL arc seemingly. I remember that guy from the Superman cartoons and the Justice League cartoons.
> 
> Whats the deal with him, reading up on his hes called a new god on all the wikis and like he has his own planet. And yet there are still these Greek Gods hanging around in Wonder Woman's books.



It's complicated. In the DC and Marvel universes, they generally incorporate the ancient pantheons of Gods on the idea that either they were real to begin with, or our belief created them. This holds true for alien races as well.

Beyond them, there are beings which are so powerful and so far advanced that they could be considered Gods. The New Gods are similar to this, where they are not omnipotent, but so powerful that they can potentially destroy the universe under the right conditions. I might be wrong in this, but I've always interpreted like that.

So, in short, most (if not all) Gods exist, to vary degrees and with varying powers.


----------



## Mael (Sep 11, 2011)

hehey said:


> Anyway, other issues. Darkseid is the villain of the first JL arc seemingly. I remember that guy from the Superman cartoons and the Justice League cartoons.
> 
> Whats the deal with him, reading up on his hes called a new god on all the wikis and like he has his own planet. And yet there are still these Greek Gods hanging around in Wonder Woman's books.



Marvel does the same thing, particularly with the Norse Gods.  I tend to just write it as certain all-powerful beings that aren't of the traditional and/or Judeo-Christian concepts of God or gods.



illmatic said:


> Darkseid is one of the most powerful characters in the DCU & considered as one of Superman's greatest adversaries
> 
> Height- 8'9"
> Weight- 1815lbs
> ...



He also possesses them awesome Omega Beams and the Omega Effect.  A frequent bitch of this was Desaad and to a lesser extent Kalibak.


----------



## Glued (Sep 11, 2011)

Darkseid is the God of Evil. Destined to die in battle against his son, Orion. Darkseid despite his great power likes to manipulate things from the shadows. He is cruel for the sake of cruelty.

His goal is to attain the anti-life equation, thus taking away free will from all sentient beings.


----------



## Glued (Sep 11, 2011)

Darkseid has created the Deep Six, which are a plague upon Aquaman.

His son Kalibak is a major pain in the ass, and often gets his butt kicked by Orion. Kalibak is often the subject of Darkseid's cruelty.

He had another son, Grayven, who was a pain in Kyle Rayner's ass.

His most powerful son, Orion, as raised by his arch nemesis, Highfather.

He raised Mister Miracle, who is the son of Highfather, however despite his upbringing, Mister Miracle escaped Apokalips and he took Big Barda, the head of Darkseid's Furies with him.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 11, 2011)

You know more about Aquaman than I thought was possible


----------



## Glued (Sep 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> You know more about Aquaman than I thought was possible



Well he's my second favorite character.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 11, 2011)

Man I didn't even notice the LoSH nod in Action the first time around.


----------



## Mael (Sep 11, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Darkseid is the God of Evil. Destined to die in battle against his son, Orion. Darkseid despite his great power likes to manipulate things from the shadows. He is cruel for the sake of cruelty.
> 
> His goal is to attain the anti-life equation, thus taking away free will from all sentient beings.



He was also conveniently voiced by none other than Michael Ironside. 

But I knew he was going to be the first big villain for the JL.  I just want to see how he's fleshed out.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 11, 2011)

Starting off with the DCnU 52 --

Alright, so far.


----------



## Mael (Sep 11, 2011)

Heh...Dan Dildo. 

But so far?  Spider sense is tingling...oh wait...wrong franchise.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 11, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Darkseid is one of the most powerful characters in the DCU & considered as one of Superman's greatest adversaries
> 
> Height- 8'9"
> Weight- 1815lbs
> ...



Does not like long walks on the Beach.

Favorite Subject: Math (Anti Life Equation)


----------



## Glued (Sep 11, 2011)

Mael said:


> He was also conveniently voiced by none other than Michael Ironside.
> 
> But I knew he was going to be the first big villain for the JL.  I just want to see how he's fleshed out.


[YOUTUBE]bw68uJ8DREg[/YOUTUBE]


Best Dad Ever.


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 11, 2011)

Picked up Static Shock, OMAC, Stormwatch, and finally, Animal Man. Wanted to pick up some other series, but the comic book store had a shortage. 

Static was... mehish. I liked some of the stuff in it, like Static's intelligence and powers being explored, along with the introduction of what appears to be the book's first villains.

OMAC was all right. I felt as if more could've been included, but I'm happy with what I got. OMAC is such a cool character, anyway. Seeing the guys from Cadmus was also cool.

Stormwatch was really good, IMO. I've never actually read any other Stormwatch series, but I have basic knowledge to a friend. Looking forward to next issue.

Animal Man was probably my favorite. Interview at the beginning was a nice touch, but jesus christ, that ending was creepy...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 11, 2011)

yeah Animal Man, was probably my favorite this week as well, just edging out Action Comics, what's great is that the book just has this kind of charm to it...it's somthing I feel alot of comics these days just don't have.

Glad you liked Stormwatch...if you want to you might want to check out the old Auuthority comics that Stormwatch takes the majority of it's roster from.


----------



## Glued (Sep 11, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Picked up Static Shock, OMAC, Stormwatch, and finally, Animal Man. Wanted to pick up some other series, but the comic book store had a shortage.
> 
> Static was... mehish. I liked some of the stuff in it, like Static's intelligence and powers being explored, along with the introduction of what appears to be the book's first villains.



I'm just wondering what Static is going to do with the arm. 



> OMAC was all right. I felt as if more could've been included, but I'm happy with what I got. OMAC is such a cool character, anyway. Seeing the guys from Cadmus was also cool.



I kind of got the same feeling too, I wish there had been a bit more about Kevin. But damn was that bitch slap on on Dubbilex awesome.



> Stormwatch was really good, IMO. I've never actually read any other Stormwatch series, but I have basic knowledge to a friend. Looking forward to next issue.



Tell me, is Martian Manhunter fitting in with his new pals in Stormwatch?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 11, 2011)

I personally feel Manhunter is the odd man out in the group, almost like DC couldn't figure out a place to put him, so they just threw him on the book at random


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 11, 2011)

Martian Manhunter should've stayed with the JL.

I mean, most people know he's part of it because of the cartoon.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 11, 2011)

I'm actually happy with the JL team (as long as DC doesn't mess-up a character). Cyborg being on it confused me at first but it's not like I dislike Cyborg or anything. This may sound strange, but I think he would have been a decent addition to JLI. I mean, Batman's on it so why not the Martian?


----------



## Blinky (Sep 11, 2011)

I was kinda unsure of how I felt about Animal Man. I liked it well enough but I wasn't sure if it was the series for me.  

But after seeing the cover of the second issue I think I'll stick with it.


*Spoiler*: __ 






 

/lol being swayed by covers 



MrChubz said:


> I'm actually happy with the JL team (as long as DC doesn't mess-up a character). Cyborg being on it confused me at first but it's not like I dislike Cyborg or anything. This may sound strange, but I think he would have been a decent addition to JLI. I mean, Batman's on it so why not the Martian?



I find myself reading JLI just for Booster


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 11, 2011)

I read somewhere that they wanted to put him somewhere where he could live up a bit more to his name 'Manhunter' which, it's true, denotes something a bit less pacifistic than we're generally used to. 

I think they also wanted to make the wildstorm characters not feel totally disconnected from the rest of the DCU.


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 11, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> yeah Animal Man, was probably my favorite this week as well, just edging out Action Comics, what's great is that the book just has this kind of charm to it...it's somthing I feel alot of comics these days just don't have.
> 
> Glad you liked Stormwatch...if you want to you might want to check out the old Auuthority comics that Stormwatch takes the majority of it's roster from.



I might have to check out the Authority then. 



> I'm just wondering what Static is going to do with the arm.



No idea. 




> I kind of got the same feeling too, I wish there had been a bit more about Kevin. But damn was that bitch slap on on Dubbilex awesome.



Yeah, it felt like there was too much focus on the action part. I liked all the action scenes, but at the same time, I'd love to know more. 




> Tell me, is Martian Manhunter fitting in with his new pals in Stormwatch



It's interesting to say the least. Apparently, he once was a member of the Justice League since someone appeared to recognize him as a member. Anyway, he seems to be a little more detached from everyone else too. Doesn't hesitate to use some nasty tactics either.



Blinky said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Animal Man keeps on getting freakier. 

Out of the tiles going on sale next week, I'm really interested in Green Lantern and Demon Knights.


----------



## Bender (Sep 11, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> [YOUTUBE]bw68uJ8DREg[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> 
> Best Dad Ever.




Don't forget he's the biggest cunt ever.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 12, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> I might have to check out the Authority then.



A fair note of warning: Warren Ellis' Stormwatch and Authority run were _beyond_ awesome; this series may find itself paling in comparison



> *and Demon Knights*.


----------



## Mael (Sep 12, 2011)

I was rather bummed that MM didn't seem to latch onto the Justice League.  I mean Cyborg is great (barring that abortion of a cartoon called Teen Titans) but he never had that alien (obvious) and wizened demeanor that J'onn had.



Blinky said:


> I was kinda unsure of how I felt about Animal Man. I liked it well enough but I wasn't sure if it was the series for me.
> 
> But after seeing the cover of the second issue I think I'll stick with it.
> 
> ...



Looks like it came out of Akira.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 12, 2011)

And Akira is my favourite manga.... suddenly it makes sense why that cover got me.


----------



## Glued (Sep 12, 2011)

I just bought Supergirl 67 and I must say it was a good final send-off for Supergirl.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 12, 2011)

Anyone see the cover to Justice League #4 ? 


*Spoiler*: __ 





Poor Hal getting his ass handed to him by every member he encounters


----------



## Glued (Sep 12, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Anyone see the cover to Justice League #4 ?
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



It is good to see Aquaman with shaggy sideburns, perhaps he can bring back the beard.


Why is there a chain attached to his trident.

From the previews Aquaman's trident had 5 prongs


Why does the trident only have 3 prongs in the picture?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2011)

And in the present tense it looks like Hal's in jail in issue 1 of Green Lantern. I like this new Hal!

In other news every single new DC title so far, including the ones that aren't coming out for another 2 days, have been sold out and need a second printing.

Which is nice but mostly nice because it's a good sign that hopefully some of these titles that are going to have a harder time avoiding cancellation will at least get a year.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2011)

older trident that he replaced at some point?

the chain seems obvious, so he doesnt have to always hold it in his hand.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 12, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> In other news every single new DC title so far, including the ones that aren't coming out for another 2 days, have been sold out and need a second printing.
> 
> Which is nice but mostly nice because it's a good sign that hopefully some of these titles that are going to have a harder time avoiding cancellation will at least get a year.



*DC Sell Out Twenty-Seven First Issues Of The New 52*

_Justice League (twice), Action Comics, Animal Man, Batgirl, Batwing, Detective Comics, Green Arrow, Hawk & Dove, JLI, Men Of War, OMAC, Static Shock, Batman And Robin, Batwoman, Deathstrike, Demon Knights, Frankenstein, Green Lantern, Grifter, Legion Lost, Mr Terrific, Red Lanterns, Resurrection Man, Suicide Squad and Superboy._

Read More -


----------



## Blinky (Sep 12, 2011)

Aquaman is actually quite badass.


----------



## Glued (Sep 12, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Aquaman is actually quite badass.



[YOUTUBE]yl3ZZaXLEx0[/YOUTUBE]

[Youtube]HCvDl5Ggbss[/Youtube]


----------



## Parallax (Sep 12, 2011)

I've always like Aquaman 

I like that he's actually getting some respect/spotlight now.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 12, 2011)

I know the older generation see Aquaman as a joke, but I fail to see why our generation who grew up on 90's Aquaman would ever see him as anything but the pinnacle of badassery. I mean, you say Aquaman, and the first thing that comes to mind is 'scary awesome'. Kid reflex, have found no reason to shed it as an adult. Every single adaptation plus the comics themselves have treated him as a paramount badass.



So I ask again, why?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2011)

They've returned him to looking like he's from Superfriends though. He's fine but he definitely hasn't been coming off as the pinnacle of badassery in any recent comics.


----------



## TheWon (Sep 12, 2011)

He's a guy who uses fish as weapons, but he never calls any sharks. That sums up Aquaman.


----------



## Penance (Sep 12, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I'm just wondering what Static is going to do with the arm.



Use it as a lightning rod...



Cromer said:


> I know the older generation see Aquaman as a joke, but I fail to see why our generation who grew up on 90's Aquaman would ever see him as anything but the pinnacle of badassery. I mean, you say Aquaman, and the first thing that comes to mind is 'scary awesome'. Kid reflex, have found no reason to shed it as an adult. Every single adaptation plus the comics themselves have treated him as a paramount badass.
> 
> 
> 
> So I ask again, why?



Most of them just didn't read comics...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 12, 2011)

TheWon said:


> He's a guy who uses fish as weapons, but he never calls any sharks. That sums up Aquaman.



Actually on occasions where sharks are around, he does call them, Aquaman isn't exactly a hero who's squeamish about killing his foes.


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 12, 2011)

Aquaman is probably my favorite from DC. 

Epic character who is always underestimated it seems.


----------



## hehey (Sep 12, 2011)

Grant Morrison once called Aquaman the Baddest Ass in the 7 seas. Id like to see some of that in his book... itl be the first Aquaman comic ive ever bought.


----------



## Glued (Sep 12, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Aquaman is probably my favorite from DC.
> 
> Epic character who is always underestimated it seems.



We should make a fanclub.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 12, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> We should make a fanclub.



Thrice damned.


----------



## Glued (Sep 12, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Thrice damned.



Hell yeah!


I'm just hoping Geoff Johns does not let us down.



hehey said:


> Grant Morrison once called Aquaman the Baddest Ass in the 7 seas. Id like to see some of that in his book... itl be the first Aquaman comic ive ever bought.



I hope you the best.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Aquaman is probably my favorite from DC.
> 
> Epic character who is always underestimated it seems.



Compared to the other founders it's easy to see why. 

Will be interesting to see how Johns handles him in the future.


----------



## Glued (Sep 12, 2011)

With Martian Manhunter gone, the JL is going to need a powerful telepath.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 12, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> With Martian Manhunter gone, the JL is going to need a powerful telepath.



That or they don't get written encountering mindfucks for a while. Besides no mindreader means Johns can indulge his weird love/hate fandom for the Batman. Hey, what detective work when J'onn can _read minds?_


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2011)

Yeah I dont see any need for a telepath, usually they just have to be written around. 4 issues and no flash yet?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2011)

btw batman is also defeated on that cover, and superman and wonder woman are in the water


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 12, 2011)

AQUAMAN IS THE MAN


----------



## Glued (Sep 12, 2011)

Cromer said:


> That or they don't get written encountering mindfucks for a while. Besides no mindreader means Johns can indulge his weird love/hate fandom for the Batman. Hey, what detective work when J'onn can _read minds?_



What exactly is Johns relationship with Batman?


----------



## Glued (Sep 12, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> btw batman is also defeated on that cover, and superman and wonder woman are in the water



Looks like Aquaman may have gained Hydrokinesis like his brave and bold counterpart.

However, they must have severely nerfed Superman if he gets fodderized by Aquaman.

Covers are just covers anyways...they sometimes lie.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 12, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Looks like Aquaman may have gained Hydrokinesis like his *brave and bold counterpart*.



OUTRAGEOUS


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2011)

Well I think that's reading too much into it... I doubt it especially since that's Mera's power. But honestly I wish he would. Much better aqua power than talking to fish.


----------



## Nightblade (Sep 12, 2011)

I love the blank expression on Aquaman's face in that cover.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 13, 2011)

Aqua Man styling on people .


----------



## Mael (Sep 13, 2011)

Platinum said:


> Aqua Man styling on people .



I don't mind this Aquaman look over the Grizzly Adams style that's for sure.  The art is fantastic and I've always liked that sort of tenuous alliance he has with the JL, but Atlantis first and foremost.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 13, 2011)

So what's everyone's favorite of the 52 so far? Mine surprisely is JLI, but also loved Action Comics and Justice League. 

Looking forward to Deathstroke and Superboy this week.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2011)

Action, Swamp Thing, and Animal Man.

And actually Justice League too, I just think that's the right approach to that book and its nice to have a good team book from DC that isn't Secret Six...


----------



## Glued (Sep 13, 2011)

OMAC was my fave, shit was straight up trippin.

Man, I'm so excited about Hawkman

I can't wait for BRUTALITY HAS A NEW NAME!!!

Blood for the blood God, blood for the blood God, blood for the blood God. More sacrifices, more death, more glorious CARNAGE!!!


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 13, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> So what's everyone's favorite of the 52 so far? Mine surprisely is JLI, but also loved Action Comics.
> 
> Looking forward to Deathstroke and Superboy this week.



Animal Man, followed up by Action Comics and Batgirl. 

This week i'm looking forward to Frankenstein, Demon Knights and Deathstroke.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2011)

It's funny to see people complain about Hawkman and how he's going to be willing to actually kill in the new book "omg thats not hawkman hes not wolverine with wings"

dude carries a sword and a mace. It makes no sense to me whatsoever that he isn't willing to use them.


----------



## Glued (Sep 13, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> It's funny to see people complain about Hawkman and how he's going to be willing to actually kill in the new book "omg thats not hawkman hes not wolverine with wings"
> 
> dude carries a sword and a mace. It makes no sense to me whatsoever that he isn't willing to use them.



Wolverine with wings, now there is an awesome idea. Someone at Marvel needs to do this.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 13, 2011)

Philip Tan is gonna be at a local comic book store next week signing issues of Hawkman #1 I'm thinking of going


----------



## Parallax (Sep 13, 2011)

Oh and my favorites have been Action, Animal Man, and Swamp Thing

typical list but hey quality speaks for itself

I also enjoyed Justice League.  I like the art and hey when was the last time we all read a JL story where it wasn't horrible?


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 13, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Animal Man, followed up by Action Comics and Batgirl.



Someone else who was okay with Batgirl, cool.

Been seeing alot of hate for it.

Have to still check out Animal Man, nothing but love I've read about it.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 13, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> Someone else who was okay with Batgirl, cool.
> 
> Been seeing alot of hate for it.
> 
> Have to still check out Animal Man, nothing but love I've read about it.



People tend to hate on Batgirl because Barabara isn't Oracle anymore and they feel putting her back in the costume is regressing her. My only problem the book is the lack of mention of Cass and Steph...but as it stands I personaly feel it's a solid book, and it deserves to stick around. 

Though your never going to be able to appease all of the batgirl camps


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 13, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> It's funny to see people complain about Hawkman and how he's going to be willing to actually kill in the new book "omg thats not hawkman hes not wolverine with wings"
> 
> *dude carries a sword and a mace. It makes no sense to me whatsoever that he isn't willing to use them.*



Of course, we are talking about generations who watched the Ninja Turtles do similar stuff... and be completely awesome.

Well, they were awesome when I was 5.


----------



## Mael (Sep 13, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> People tend to hate on Batgirl because Barabara isn't Oracle anymore and they feel putting her back in the costume is regressing her. My only problem the book is the lack of mention of Cass and Steph...but as it stands I personaly feel it's a solid book, and it deserves to stick around.
> 
> Though your never going to be able to appease all of the batgirl camps



1. Those people should STFU.  How is it regression, per se?  You just switched from a mental/advisor role back to the physical/mental role that Batgirl has.  Whoop dee doo.

2. I'm still going to be patient.  I mean, how long has this been going on for now?  If pairing fans are willing to wait for hundreds of chapters to get their little happiness in life, I think if anything American comic fans can get their moments with a little more patience.  Yes Gail has been rather hush-hush on most details, but Cass and Steph garnered a lot of popularity.  Why completely abort the future cash cow?

3. No, you won't.  Cannot have your cake and eat it too.  As much as I like the Batfamily, sometimes I get the feeling of it being a little too expansive to the point you've created camps.  Granted most vitriolic camp residents are idiots, but you know what I mean.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 13, 2011)

Favourites were Animal Man, Action, Static Shock.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 13, 2011)

Oh I agree with you entirely, I was just noting how the general fanbase apparently feel...god knows the constant shitstorm that is the infamous batgirl thread won't ever cease. 

See I don't have a problem with Babs putting back on the tights again, as it seemed to me like something Gail Simone had been wanting to do for years since Barbara had regained the use of her toes way back in volume 1 of Birds of prey...after Infinite crisis was it I think?

I agree that the fanbase should pipe down, as quite honestly they're as bad as the wonder woman fan base, who aren't pleased with anything that happens to the character


----------



## Mael (Sep 13, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Oh I agree with you entirely, I was just noting how the general fanbase apparently...god knows the constant shitstorm that is the infamous batgirl thread won't ever cease.
> 
> See I don't have a problem with Babs putting back on the tights again, as it seemed to me like something Gail Simone had been wanting to do for years since Barbara had regained the use of her toes way back in volume 1 of Birds of prey...after Infinite crisis was it I think?
> 
> I agree that the fanbase should pipe down, as quite honestly they're as bad as the wonder woman fan base, who aren't pleased with anything that happens to the character



As you said, people see the loss of their character within the timeline and don't want to wait.  I'm not getting Wally West, Linda Park, or the twins, but am I going to fuckraeg about it?  No.  Whether or not it comes in any time is something you have to stomach.  Enjoy what you had right now and maybe you'll be lucky.

Jesus, by the sounds of it, Wonder Woman and the Batgirls are getting the dreaded Sakura Treatment.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 13, 2011)

Honestly?


I'm all of a sudden psyched for Hawkman. I mean, the guy apparently cuts shit up for shits and giggles, so much so that characters in a completely different book are going 'What if Hawkman hears?'


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 13, 2011)

That one line made Hawkman out to be somebody who criminals shit thier pants in fear over...i'm reading the book just to see how horrible every bad guy reacts to him


----------



## Cromer (Sep 13, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> That one line made Hawkman out to be somebody who criminals shit thier pants in fear over...i'm reading the book just to see how horrible every bad guy reacts to him






I mean, you'd normally expect the guy to go 'what if Batman...'









*Fuck* Batman, what if THE GODDAMN 90s XTRIIM SAVAGE HAWKMAN HEARS!!!


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Of course, we are talking about generations who watched the Ninja Turtles do similar stuff... and be completely awesome.
> 
> Well, they were awesome when I was 5.



I think we all know what I think of the ninja turtles


----------



## Slice (Sep 13, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I think we all know what I think of the ninja turtles





You truly are a lost case


----------



## Gallant (Sep 13, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> So what's everyone's favorite of the 52 so far? Mine surprisely is JLI, but also loved Action Comics and Justice League.



I've only read Justice League and Static Shock which I bought yesterday and enjoyed both. I'll read the others tonight and get a better feel for the reboot.

Though from posts in here it sounds like I should avoid Swamp Thing and a couple of others.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2011)

NO

you should not ignore swamp thing, you should ignore idiots who dislike swamp thing

you should ignore hawk and dove and green arrow and JLI they are complete shit.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 13, 2011)

@gallant

what why?

it seems everyone reading it is enjoying it


----------



## Cromer (Sep 13, 2011)

Ignore Stormwatch;disappointing crap.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 13, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> NO
> 
> you should not ignore swamp thing, you should ignore idiots who dislike swamp thing
> 
> you should ignore hawk and dove and green arrow and JLI they are complete shit.



Hawk and Dove I never really had much of an interest in.

I was willing to give Green Arrow and JLI a chance at least.



Parallax said:


> @gallant
> 
> what why?
> 
> it seems everyone reading it is enjoying it



I only caught a couple of posts a few pages back where some people made it sound like it was needlessly confusing. Though there has been more discussion since then and I didn't read the rest of it lol.


----------



## Penance (Sep 13, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> So what's everyone's favorite of the 52 so far? Mine surprisely is JLI, but also loved Action Comics and Justice League.
> 
> Looking forward to Deathstroke and Superboy this week.



Men of War, Animal Man, and Justice League (amazingly).  Static-I'm sure-is soon to follow...


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 13, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Oh I agree with you entirely, I was just noting how the general fanbase apparently feel...god knows the constant shitstorm that is the infamous batgirl thread won't ever cease.
> 
> See I don't have a problem with Babs putting back on the tights again, as it seemed to me like something Gail Simone had been wanting to do for years since Barbara had regained the use of her toes way back in volume 1 of Birds of prey...after Infinite crisis was it I think?
> 
> I agree that the fanbase should pipe down, *as quite honestly they're as bad as the wonder woman fan base, *who aren't pleased with anything that happens to the character



When the fanbase shows a shitstorm because she's wearing pants, then throws a shitstorm when she isn't wearing pants, then throws a shitstorm when she has retractable pants, that is officially the worst fanbase ever.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Ignore Stormwatch;disappointing crap.



Well it wasn't exactly bad it just didn't really do anything interesting enough for issue 1. But I hope it gets better, I expect better from Cornell. JLI was atrocious but I was braced for that.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 13, 2011)

Gallant said:


> Hawk and Dove I never really had much of an interest in.
> 
> I was willing to give Green Arrow and JLI a chance at least.
> 
> ...



As one of those people complaining about it being confusing...let me say this.

after doing some research into the character, and rereading the comic...I actually like it now.

I still feel though the book comes with baggage, but i'm hoping subsequent issues will drop some of it.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 13, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Ignore Stormwatch;disappointing crap.



I personally liked Stormwatch, sure it wasn't up to Authority or original Stormwatch standards but it was a decent read. I've already said my complaints about Midnighter, so I won't repeat them


----------



## Penance (Sep 13, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I think we all know what I think of the ninja turtles



D-does not compute...


----------



## Glued (Sep 13, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Oh I agree with you entirely, I was just noting how the general fanbase apparently feel...god knows the constant shitstorm that is the infamous batgirl thread won't ever cease.
> 
> See I don't have a problem with Babs putting back on the tights again, as it seemed to me like something Gail Simone had been wanting to do for years since Barbara had regained the use of her toes way back in volume 1 of Birds of prey...after Infinite crisis was it I think?
> 
> *I agree that the fanbase should pipe down, as quite honestly they're as bad as the wonder woman fan base*, who aren't pleased with anything that happens to the character



Oh god, they are the worst fanbase ever. However they're not Babs level nor will they ever be.

Wondy kills, shitstorm.
Wondy has a boyfriend, shitstorm
Wondy wears pants, shitstorm
Wondy does not wear pants, shitstorm
Wondy is blind, shitstorm
Wondy is perfect, shitstorm
Wondy is flawed, shitstorm
Wondy wears armor, shitstorm
Wondy wears bikini, shitstorm




Cromer said:


> Honestly?
> 
> 
> I'm all of a sudden psyched for Hawkman. I mean, the guy apparently cuts shit up for shits and giggles, so much so that characters in a completely different book are going 'What if Hawkman hears?'



Same here man, it was a Static, and the guy with a piranha face is worried about Hawkman.





Cromer said:


> I mean, you'd normally expect the guy to go 'what if Batman...'
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now you're talking my language.





Emperor Joker said:


> That one line made Hawkman out to be somebody who criminals shit thier pants in fear over...i'm reading the book just to see how horrible every bad guy reacts to him



Agreed, I just can't wait to see how over the top Hawkman is going to be. It will be a grand spectacle.


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 13, 2011)

Just read a few of the new titles.

Batgirl was good and weird at the same time. Her thoughts bubbles went with her character, but the second she says something out loud, am like what.

Batwing was pretty good, and i was surprise on how good it was.

Swamp Thing was another one, but what i found weird was Clark, he look far older then he is in the other stories. He looks more like in his 30's than 20's.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm pretty sure that's just how he was drawn. IMO Superman's face looked like garbage. I'm not saying the rest of the book's art was garbage, only Superman's face for some reason.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2011)

Pacquette has trouble drawing younger people, but its also the only present day superman we've seen to be fair.


----------



## Mael (Sep 13, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Oh god, they are the worst fanbase ever. However they're not Babs level nor will they ever be.
> 
> Wondy kills, shitstorm.
> Wondy has a boyfriend, shitstorm
> ...



If true, WW has just received the Sakura Treatment.


----------



## Glued (Sep 13, 2011)

Mael said:


> If true, WW has just received the Sakura Treatment.



Sakura deserves every ill word she receives.

Wondy, whether she's going axe crazy slicing down Ares or whether she is forgiving an evil dragon will always be a better character.

Its not Wondy's fault Republicans, and Feminists are all fighting over how she should look and what she should do.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 13, 2011)

Hey, what are you guys going to be getting tomorrow?

I'll certainly be getting Deathstroke (because I like mindless violence), Demon Knights (for no reason other then the cover looking cool), Frankenstein (looks to be another mindless violence. A lot of that this week), GL (Awesome Sinestro is awesome), and Suicide Squad (It has Harley Quinn so i t can't be too bad). 

I won't be getting the Batbooks unless I hear they're really good. Mostly because I can get my fill of the batfamily in other books I'll be sure to get (JL, TT, Outlaws (mostly for Starfire) ect...) I may get Superboy if I hear enough good things about it.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 13, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Sakura deserves every ill word she receives.
> 
> Wondy, whether she's going axe crazy slicing down Ares or whether she is forgiving an evil dragon will always be a better character.
> 
> Its not Wondy's fault Republicans, and Feminists are all fighting over how she should look and what she should do.


She can't wear pants, she has to wear pants, she can't have sex, why is she a prude, she's too strong, she should be able to take on Superman, why isn't she a larger part of the DCU, her role is too large, ect...

I don't dislike Wonder Woman at all. However I won't be getting her book because she'll never be written consistently well due to her fans bitching no matter what.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 13, 2011)

Definitly buying?

Frankenstein
Demon Knights
Batwoman (I believe that comes out tomarrow doesn't it?)
Batman and Robin
Superboy
Green Lantern

Everything else will be depend on how good it is when I read it...


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 13, 2011)

Yeah Batwoman is tomorrow.

Edit: You're not getting GL?


----------



## Glued (Sep 13, 2011)

For me

1) Demon Knights, DC finally realizes that Jason Blood and Sir Justin are both Arthurian based myths, thus should actually interact with one another.
2) Frankenstein, I like monster characters.

Edit: sorry


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 13, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Yeah Batwoman is tomorrow.
> 
> Edit: You're not getting GL?



Forgot Sinestro came out tomarrow, definitly buying that


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2011)

aquaman and hawkman dont come out til the last week ben. 

idk what I'll actually go out and buy but the ones Im somewhat interested in tomorrow are GL, Batman and Robin, Batwoman, Demon Knights and... maybe Frankenstein. I know Lemire just knocked animal man out of the park and I know frankenstein can be kind of awesome sometimes, but I didn't like the art very much from what I saw.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 13, 2011)

Lots of books tomorrow.

Demon Knights
GL
Batman and Robin
Aquaman
MOTHAFUCKIN HAWKMAN (please let this book be as EXTREME as it looks)
Sinestro 
Batwoman
Frankenstein
Maybe Deathstroke, Grifter, and Mr. T.

EDIT: Curse you ben for making me think Aquaman and Hawkman are tomorrow.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 13, 2011)

Hawkman and Aquaman aren't until week for (probably the best week).


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 13, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Hey, what are you guys going to be getting tomorrow?



Batwoman, Demon Knights, Frankenstein, GL, Grifter, Mister T, Suicide Squad.

Batwoman: Never actually read a Batwoman comic, but I've heard postive things and I'm interested. Hopefully will be good, because the art looks pretty nice.

Demon Knights: Always been a big fan of Etrigan.

Frankenstein: Been a fan of him ever since I read Seven Soldiers.

GL: It's going to be about Sinestro, correct? If so, that's why. 

Grifter: Want to give the new guy a chance.

Mister Terrific: I'm a fan.

Suicide Squad: Harley Quinn.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 13, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> As one of those people complaining about it being confusing...let me say this.
> 
> after doing some research into the character, and rereading the comic...I actually like it now.
> 
> I still feel though the book comes with baggage, but i'm hoping subsequent issues will drop some of it.



Yeah, nothing against Swamp Thing but I thought the entire point of this initiative was to spare people from having to do what you just did? If it wasn't time consuming than I guess it wasn't so bad.

I might still look into it but it isn't like it was a top priority for me or anything.



MrChubz said:


> Hey, what are you guys going to be getting tomorrow?



Batman and Robin+Green Lantern

I'll have to wait later in the week before I get anything else.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 13, 2011)

I don't have money so I can't buy anything till at least friday :[

I hope its not sold out by then


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Batwoman: Never actually read a Batwoman comic, but I've heard postive things and I'm interested. Hopefully will be good, because the art looks pretty nice.



You should check out batwoman: elegy.

And DC should really push stuff like that that can give new readers the origins the new books don't.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 13, 2011)

Are there any reviews for next week?

I want to know what to check out.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm still going with my 'go with what looks cool' strategy.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 13, 2011)

Batman and Robin and Batwoman is probably all im gonna buy. Unless they still have Batgirl and Tec.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 13, 2011)

No love for Sinestro?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2011)

LBFA is great


----------



## illmatic (Sep 13, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Batwoman: Never actually read a Batwoman comic, but I've heard postive things and I'm interested. Hopefully will be good, because the art looks pretty nice.


I wonder if people that start with tomorrow's BATWOMAN issue one will be lost as the arcs will be very serialized (dependent on having read Elegy & knowing the established relationships) kinda stories from what I've read in interviews. 

The hype might hurt more then help if all the new readers who think the art is  feel lost.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm getting Mr. Terrific and Demon Knights. Maybe Green Lantern as well. Batwoman can wait in a fridge for a bit. (Or we can go illegal ...)


----------



## illmatic (Sep 14, 2011)

171,344        Justice League #1



_DC has announced that Justice League has sold over 200,000 copies. The 200K figure includes non-U.S. orders and orders through channels not handled by Diamond Comic Distributors, the source of ICv2’s data. The book is currently on its third printing so when all the printings have shipped the final number for Justice League will be well north of 200K._


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 14, 2011)

BigSwingingMember said:


> this seems like the perfect opportunity for me to not give a shit about DC.



Good for you, asshole.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm only going to be impressed with DC's number if issues 3 onwards don't sink like the Titanic.

Also, I need Batwoman 1 in my life.


----------



## Mael (Sep 14, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I'm only going to be impressed with DC's number if issues 3 onwards don't sink like the Titanic.
> 
> Also, I need Batwoman 1 in my life.



Hey, Gab.  I'm supposed to be the cynic here.

Can't afford it or just not available?


----------



## Cromer (Sep 14, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I'm only going to be impressed with DC's number if issues 3 onwards don't sink like the Titanic.



Obvious statement is obvious.



> Also, I need Batwoman 1 in my life.



I could give less of a damn about Kate Kane's continuing adventures.


----------



## Mael (Sep 14, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I could give less of a damn about Kate Kane's continuing adventures.



Any particular reason or is this just plain apathy?


----------



## Glued (Sep 14, 2011)

I don't know about getting into the batbooks. I aint made of money


----------



## Cromer (Sep 14, 2011)

Mael said:


> Any particular reason or is this just plain apathy?



Rucka isn't writing, and I've never liked the 'awesome' 'edgy' layouts JHW3 uses. So, apathy, I guess.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 14, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I don't know about getting into the batbooks. I aint made of money



Just do what I do:







Buy indie comics and the books you REALLY LIKE, download the fuck outta the rest of that shit


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 14, 2011)

Mael said:


> Hey, Gab.  I'm supposed to be the cynic here.
> 
> Can't afford it or just not available?



I don't live in USA. A friend is buying them for me.

Will probably know what happens before the end of the day, since I love spoilers. 



Cromer said:


> Obvious statement is obvious



Just saying, Most people seem to be wetting their collective panties because the sales are so great when the real test begins with number 3 and onwards.



Cromer said:


> I could give less of a damn about Kate Kane's continuing adventures.



Your loss.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 14, 2011)

Well it is nice that the whole thing didn't just completely fail at the start. 

And no matter what the sales, I'm liking it because it gave us the dark books and other nice things.


----------



## Mael (Sep 14, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I don't live in USA. A friend is buying them for me.
> 
> Will probably know what happens before the end of the day, since I love spoilers.



You could've just asked me.  

I'm pretty damn good at getting things and for a good price.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 14, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I don't know about getting into the batbooks. I aint made of money



Go into the batbooks you know you want to

I feel the same way though I can only buy so many titles


----------



## Blinky (Sep 14, 2011)

Oh yeah I remember someone a while back here saying that the JL needs someone with telepathy.. In the spread of the hooded time bitch I think it had Grifter standing with the new JL. He uses telepathy.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 14, 2011)

Grifter never used Telepathy


----------



## Blinky (Sep 14, 2011)

Eh ? I read the first issue of the Grifter/Midnighter thng and the first thing he does is get into two guys heads and makes them point their guns at each other.

kay just looked it up 



> As a result of the Gen Factor exposure, Cole had a strong amount of telekinesis and telepathy, but these powers began to burn out and by the time of Team 7: Dead Reckoning



A few wikis seem to say this. But since the character is being taken back to his origin he may have it again.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 14, 2011)

funny not for just the usual Finch reasons but because Simone had no idea this was happening

And also because apparently the colorist thinks it's stephanie brown?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 14, 2011)

I still have no clue as to why they;d put Poison Ivy on the team...I guess they needed somebody to replace Huntress


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 14, 2011)

Even Huntress is supposed to rejoin after her mini, supposedly.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 14, 2011)

Just read Batman and Robin, Superboy, and Green Lantern.

I really liked all three of them.

Can't wait for Demon Knights and Deathstroke. They simply look awesome.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 14, 2011)

Not done yet, but this week looks more consistently good than the last one... which was still pretty good, but not this good.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 14, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> funny not for just the usual Finch reasons but because Simone had no idea this was happening
> 
> And also because apparently the colorist thinks it's stephanie brown?



The colorist wants Steph back 

The outfits are so fucking ugly


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 14, 2011)

You know it feels good to see Rose Wilson not all bloodlusty and crazy again. Superboy's another keeper in my opinion.

Suicide Squad was decent in my opinion, though I don't see it having that much shelf life


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 14, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The colorist wants Steph back
> 
> The outfits are so fucking ugly



most of them have grown on me... simpler gloves on canary would be nice. Much funnier is how finch likes to draw every women's knees about 2 inches apart. 

I downloaded suicide squad expecting lulz, was disappointed til the last page then I saw Waller has gone on a very good diet program.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 14, 2011)

Superboy was pretty good. Not out of the park great, but solid enough that I'm interested. Which is odd, because of all the characters getting changes superboy was the one I was most annoyed about.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 14, 2011)

Demon Knights got me hooked. You can't go wrong with a team of adventurers in a magical dark ages.

Having Batwoman's villain be a mexican urban legend I know was nice.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 14, 2011)

Demon Knights was another good one this week, i'm disapointed that Etrigan doesn't rhyme anymore though. this book has tons of potential


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 14, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The colorist wants Steph back
> 
> The outfits are so fucking ugly



I like that a lot more than the average Finch art.

Hate some of the colors though.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 14, 2011)




----------



## Penance (Sep 14, 2011)

illmatic said:


>



Hello, Angela Basset...


----------



## Mael (Sep 14, 2011)

Wow...the purplish stuff again?  Honestly, why give Babs that?  Matter of fact, why any of those designs?  I mean the women look enchanting but the outfits?  Meh...



Penance said:


> Hello, Angela Basset...



I'll say.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 14, 2011)

illmatic said:


>



         .


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 14, 2011)

I don't have a card right now so I can't get comics. I think this is what dying feels like.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 14, 2011)

illmatic said:


>



Err, what?




You know what, I'm cancelling on Herc right now, gotta squeeze in and read Suicide Squad, just to see this properly.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 14, 2011)

Basically they made her GL's amanda waller. And that's the only picture of her so far. She's just as evil if not more so though.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 14, 2011)

Batwoman was too short 

Also yeah, Waller is now skinny, but still the evil bitch we all know and love


----------



## Mael (Sep 14, 2011)

Waller is the new Darkseid.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Sep 14, 2011)

I was let down by Stormwatch. Not by the concepts (though there's one they haven't sold me on yet) or characters really, more by the lack of subtlety in the unfolding of both. The exposition was a bit thick, even taking into account that it's a first issue. 

That was my only real problem with it. I mean, I also don't like the art and I don't know if that is because of the coloring or inking, but unless it's utter crap, art is something I can deal with if the writing is good and it's not like the art was terrible or anything. Otherwise I'm looking forward to good things.

You kind of have to love that Paul Cornell’s answer to the redundancy of Stormwatch in a universe that already had the Justice League is to say that Stormwatch are the real defenders of Earth and that the Justice League are posers, and to have the Martian Manhunter be the one to say that too. That takes balls I didn’t think anybody writing for DC still had. 

The redundancy of Stormwatch in a universe that has the JL is the thing they haven't sold me on. They say they're not superheroes but at this point they don't seem different other than that they're not publicly recognized. And since they gave up The Authority's objective of saving the world from itself just to take on one of saving the world from alien threats and doing it secretly, they really need to do that well because it's not really original.

WSU Jack sometimes had treads on his hands depending on the artist but I think DCnU Jack will have them all the time, which is cool to see for me.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 14, 2011)

I managed to get a lot of the stuff out of the store, though I missed a few. Need to find a lender...

*Batman and Robin*: I liked this a lot, though this is probably the one that felt most linked to past continuity. Swamp Thing and Batgirl really explained what they needed to; this one is a bit more reliant on Batman, Inc. I suppose you could just say "Batman has a buddy in Moscow" (And I wish we saw that issue of Batman, Inc. Russian Batman = AWESOMENESS), but I suppose we knew that the Bat-continuity would be largely intact. I like the idea that proving yourself to Dick is different than proving yourself to Bruce, but I also like the evolution that Tomasi showed out of Batman. He did this with his Outsiders issue after Batman RIP, and I really trust him with this. The art is solid, and a definitely pick-up next week.

*Deathstroke*: I liked this a lot. Deathstroke has been taking easy jobs, leading to people believing he's lost his step. Maybe it's just me, but I like the laconic portrayal of Slade; it feels like a step away from the evil mastermind that sprung up after Identity Crisis. A simple first issue, but already a step towards where I want to see him.

*Demon Knights*: This is what I was hoping Stormwatch would be more like. The art is amazing, the story is awesome, and the collection of characters has me interested already. Dinosaurs masquerading as dragons? Mordru? VANDAL SAVAGE?! This already feels like a break-out title. God, I love it.

*Green Lantern*: It's solid Johns stuff. Hal's life was hilarious, and while I saw the bait-and-switch a mile away, the way it was delivered made me laugh my ass off.

*Legion Lost*: This... kind of baffled me. The art is fine and colorful and I got the plot, but I just felt kind of confused at the end. It was like someone was talking to me in English... except every now and then they would switch to French. It was like being at a family reunion, actually. This is a borderline title for next month, if only because there are so many great books coming out there.

*Red Lanterns*: The book is well-done, which actually surprised me. I guess we are going to see a human take on a red ring, has a few interesting plots for the future, and the art was better than I thought it would be. Maybe Benes should just keep to aliens, so we don't have to see his sometimes-absurd proportions. This is another borderline title, though I'm a Green Lantern guy so I might end up picking it up anyways.

*Suicide Squad*: From what I was told, I thought this would be worse. The worst part really comes at the beginning, upon finding out that Deadshot no longer has his mustache. And that, people, is *bullshit*. It's a simple plot which I remember from a Checkmate issue, though the issue is well done. It feels kind of like it'll be a companion piece to Deathstroke in a similar way that Animal Man feels connected to Swamp Thing in some ways.

*Superboy*: I am now buying Teen Titans because of this book. Lobdell has been easily the most enthusiastic and interesting guy in the countdown to the relaunch; he's done a lot of interviews and has talked more than anyone. I know his ideas for costumes have pissed people off, but if Teen Titans is anything like this, I want it. This issue felt great, with a really different and interesting take on the Superboy character. He already has an interesting cast, and the art on the book is probably the most enjoyable I've seen so far. I don't know if it's the coloring or the inking or what, but I just loved the art on this book so much. It just strikes the exact right note with me.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 14, 2011)

So I liked everything that came out of Dc this week. there was no crap like Hawk and Dove or JLI placed between the quality....everything was good....which is surprising considering I was expecting Suicide Squad, Legion Lost and Red Lanterns to suck balls

Hell I even liked Resurrection Man, even though I wasn't expecting that much from the title


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 14, 2011)

illmatic said:


>



what the everloving fuck


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 14, 2011)

I enjoyed the books last week more. Though GL, Demon Knights, Batwoman, B&R and god, even superboy, were all fine. I've never heard of the Demon Knights artist before but he's pretty awesome.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 14, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> what the everloving fuck



knew you'd like that!


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 14, 2011)

Looks like Waller can give some new incentives to join the Suicide Squad.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 14, 2011)

The movie makeover is pretty dumb. So unsurprising considering the book though.


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 14, 2011)

Just read some new comics...

*Batman and Robin:* Decent. The beginning was cool and all, but I feel pain for any new reader who is trying to read. The conservation between Bruce and Damian was nice, but I can't help feel a little annoyance since I thought Damian would show more respect.

*Demon Knights:* I knew it was going to be epic. They'd mention dragons. Then the dragons actually show up!  We got fucking Vandal Savage, Shining Knight, Madame Xanadu, and of course, Etrigan the Demon. Fighting off a barbarian horde. Simply epic, paced very quickly, the action was also nice...

*Mister Terrific:* Dissapointed. Mainly because Terrific kind of came off more as a douche and none of the science was really interesting, more rip-off of Mister Fantastic then anything. One thing that did interest me was in fact, Powergirl! Well she's only Karen Starr in the actual issue, but it was cool to see her pop up and makes me wonder on her future. Hopefully not as Terrific's squeeze, though. His villain on the other hand is rather uninteresting... I've seen the whole, random guy gains super-intelligence too many times to be really impressed by it. The ending did kind of suprise me, though. Not much as Animal Man.

*Red Lantern:* Suprisingly good! The spread detailing Dex-Starr's rage made me lol. I liked how we got a quick explaination for new readers and to just catch people up, but tbh, for a action-like comic not much action really happened. A human becoming a Red Lantern seems interesting, though. The premise doesn't seem like it'll be able to keep on going and be interesting, but who knows.

*Suicide Squad:* I liked it. Well, Deadshot not having his mustache was kind of dissapointing, but I really liked what they did to Harley. She's pretty much the same except with a different outfit designed to show her playfulness. Sadly, the whole thing was rather predictable. Amanda Waller is actually hot this time and also wants the Suicide Squad to kill everyone! Crazy... Will most likely pick up the next issue.

*Superboy:* I had considered not grabbing this one... I'm glad I changed my mind because this was probably the best I had read. Superboy's character was a lot different then the normal one I'm used too. For one, he's smart as fuck and rather nice, less douche-y. Lois Lane showing up was another nice touch. His entire supporting cast was a nice touch, especially Rose Wilson. Will really keep on reading, especially after the ending and my interest in N.O.W.H.E.R.E.


----------



## Glued (Sep 14, 2011)

"Here me, I come from a land where men are castrated and women are pleased." She's nuts.


Also it states that Arthur will be resurrected once more.

I vote that King Arthur join the justice league.

EDIT: Thanks Bluebeard


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 14, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> "Here me, I come from a land where men are castrated and women are pleased."
> 
> Is that Hippolyta?
> 
> ...



Her name was Exorcista or something, right?


----------



## Mael (Sep 14, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> what the everloving fuck



Not sure if mad...but assuming so.

This IS the reboot, Gabz.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 14, 2011)

The fuck.

That's not the fucking WALL, that's hot comic chick number 1246343135643

Also, B&R was hilarious. Bruce talking about his PARENTS ARE DEAD AND I CAN'T STILL SEE THE PEARLS in every page.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 14, 2011)

Benes' art made me laugh. The cat had abs! Plus the hilarity of Bleez the skeleton wings axeforahead alien getting that typical benes boobs/ass shot while puking bloodlava is just too funny.


----------



## Mael (Sep 14, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The fuck.
> 
> That's not the fucking WALL, that's hot comic chick number 1246343135643
> 
> Also, B&R was hilarious. Bruce talking about his PARENTS ARE DEAD AND I CAN'T STILL SEE THE PEARLS in every page.



Gabz, maybe you're not seeing what I'm seeing.

I'm seeing PRE-WALL Wallen.  What I'm thinking is that this is before her secret divorce and discover of affair which would then lead to an eating binge and then the creation of...THE WALL.

It's all about timeline and perspective.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 14, 2011)

No its all about making her look like she did in the green lantern movie. 

But I do think it would be an AMAZING side plot if Suicide Squad just intermittently shows Waller cramming oreos in her mouth and we watch her grow over time. That's really about the most I could hope for from that book.


----------



## Glued (Sep 14, 2011)

Exorcista, nice name.



gabzilla said:


> The fuck.
> 
> That's not the fucking WALL, that's hot comic chick number 1246343135643
> 
> Also, B&R was hilarious. Bruce talking about his PARENTS ARE DEAD AND I CAN'T STILL SEE THE PEARLS in every page.



Agreed, its like turning Hulk or Ben Grimm or Wolverine into bishounens.


----------



## Mael (Sep 14, 2011)

^Careful with your heresy, Ben.



Petes12 said:


> No its all about making her look like she did in the green lantern movie.
> 
> But I do think it would be an AMAZING side plot if Suicide Squad just intermittently shows Waller cramming oreos in her mouth and we watch her grow over time. That's really about the most I could hope for from that book.



At first I thought you missed the sarcasm, but then yes the Oreos would make for good time laughs.  I'm not as emotionally attached to Amanda Waller as some might be so I'm not too hung up over seeing a prettier variety.

But that doesn't mean the foodstuffs aren't on the way.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 14, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> No its all about making her look like she did in the green lantern movie.
> 
> But I do think it would be an AMAZING side plot if Suicide Squad just intermittently shows Waller cramming oreos in her mouth and we watch her grow over time. That's really about the most I could hope for from that book.



You mean that movie that was a box office fiasco?

I thought we were going back to the iconic looks. 

Oh wait, that was a load of bull.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 14, 2011)

See the thing with me is, I don't really care what kind of shape Waller is in...so long she still remains the evil manipulative bitch she's always been


----------



## Gallant (Sep 14, 2011)

Ok, I ended up buying more of the stuff from last week along with Batman and Robin/Green Lantern when I wasn't supposed to but oh well.

*BatWing*-I like what is being done here and where it goes from here on out I'm hoping it pulls me in more. Dealing with all of the corruption and crime from inside the police and outside as a superhero should make things entertaining. 

*Static Shock*-Ended up being one of my favorites. Virgil's character was nailed pretty well from what I remember of him. He is freaking smart and it showed along with him being one of the more light-hearted heroes. A great job was done on how varied the use of his powers are which I always love to see. They nailed the family dynamic down pretty good too with Virgil's sister clowning him. Like everyone else, I got a great laugh out of the villains making a big deal out of someone like Hawkman of all people coming after them. 

*Justice League*-Off to a good start in my opinion. Very humorous and I enjoyed the dynamic between Hal Jordan and Bruce Wayne. With the world just now being more aware of super heroes it portrayed the mood of fairly well. Superman at the end was a great touch. Too bad the second issue won't be out for a while.

*Justice League International*-This was just okay overall. The biggest thing I can say overall is that it did make me laugh a few times. But I don't care for many of the characters in this except for a few so I'll hope that they can be developed well enough to make me care.

*Action Comics*-One of my favorites of what I've read so far. I have never followed Superman extremely closely but how he is portrayed here I definitely love. The way he screwed with the police and the crime lord was awesome. Lex Luthor's dialogue really caught my eye as well. I don't know if he is always written this way but I want more of it.

*Green Lantern*-Hal's life has really hit all kinds of lows. It had me feeling sorry for him but I admit several parts were pretty funny. I mean, who goes on a date with their girlfriend and asks them to co-sign for their car? Who the hell does that?  

*Batman and Robin*-Now this is probably my #1 so far. I really enjoyed the back and forth between Bruce and Damian. I liked the stance Bruce appears to be taking with his dead parents and the contrast with how Bruce thinks and Damian thinks. Like Guy, I also liked how they made proving yourself to Dick being something different than proving yourself to Bruce. I'm also fine with the series starting off with some of the Batman Inc stuff.

I'll probably try more stuff after Friday.


----------



## Mael (Sep 14, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> You mean that movie that was a box office fiasco?
> 
> I thought we were going back to the iconic looks.
> 
> Oh wait, that was a load of bull.



Yep, GL sucked balls that's for sure.  Marvel seems to excel a touch better where DC (save for Batman even if I found the Dark Knight annoyingly repetitive) cannot nowadays.  But hey, that's my thought.

Iconic looks?  Weren't we just talking about Supes lacking a little red something?  Weren't we just making observations about another Aquaman look?  And then look at those women...wow wee.

But EJ has it right.  Looks aren't everything, but character is.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 14, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Exorcista, nice name.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed, its like turning Hulk or Ben Grimm or Wolverine into bishounens.



At least the last one has kinda happened already.


----------



## Penance (Sep 14, 2011)

What was wrong with the Green Lantern movie, again?


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 14, 2011)

Everything


----------



## Mael (Sep 14, 2011)

Penance said:


> What was wrong with the Green Lantern movie, again?





gabzilla said:


> Everything



Maybe it's just me, but Ryan Reynolds should just stick to Deadpool or nothing comic book related at all.


----------



## Mael (Sep 14, 2011)

Charcan said:


> At least the last one has kinda happened already.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 15, 2011)

Penance said:


> What was wrong with the Green Lantern movie, again?



It was a movie about Hal Jordan.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 15, 2011)




----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

On topic: Yes...it was a movie about Hal Jordan.  That's probably why it didn't work.



Charcan said:


>


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

Penance said:


> What was wrong with the Green Lantern movie, again?



poor plotting mostly. the villains were an especially big weakness.

I don't really agree that hal jordan/ryan reynolds was the problem. it was kinda everything that wasnt him or sinestro.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> You mean that movie that was a box office fiasco?
> 
> I thought we were going back to the iconic looks.
> 
> Oh wait, that was a load of bull.



going back to the looks that people who don't read comics recognize, would be more accurate. notice the nonkord blue beetle (thank god he made it into a cartoon or that kid would be dead). 

hey I think it's dumb too, like anyone who watched green lantern even remembers 'random black chick with random flashback' was named amanda waller 

i feel like im the messenger and getting shot!


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 15, 2011)

I really liked the GL movie.

Its only problem to me was focusing too much on Hammond instead of Oa, which everyone wanted to see. Still enjoyed it.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> going back to the looks that people who don't read comics recognize, would be more accurate. notice the nonkord blue beetle (thank god he made it into a cartoon or that kid would be dead).



Yeah, Jaime Reyes. I actually like him so I hope his new series fares much better than his old one.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 15, 2011)

You know it's gonna be cancelled, Blinky 

**


----------



## Castiel (Sep 15, 2011)

why did I even read one page of Suicide Squad


----------



## Blinky (Sep 15, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> You know it's gonna be cancelled, Blinky
> 
> **



A man can dream.... a man can dream. 

But hey DC must see some potential for success there otherwise they would have shooved him in JLI. The fact that he has his own series counts for something right ? RIGHT?!


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 15, 2011)

Jaime probably got popular with kids thanks to the brave and bold cartoon.

I hope it's successful. I loved what I read of Jaime's old run.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 15, 2011)

I know nothing about the guy writing it but I have my hopes.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

will probably be pretty average tbh.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 15, 2011)

Holy shit, Frankesntein was freakin' awesome.

Instantly became one of my favs of the new 52


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> going back to the looks that people who don't read comics recognize, would be more accurate. notice the nonkord blue beetle (thank god he made it into a cartoon or that kid would be dead).
> 
> hey I think it's dumb too, like anyone who watched green lantern even remembers 'random black chick with random flashback' was named amanda waller
> 
> i feel like im the messenger and getting shot!



For some reason, I'm now thinking about how Marvel completely redesigned Nick Fury.

Into Samuel Motherfucking L. Jackson.  (Ultimate Nick Fury that is)

But hey guys, remember, people will still buy this.  Just look at Naruto, even if this is still leagues better.


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 15, 2011)

Castiel said:


> why did I even read one page of Suicide Squad



You knew you wanted too. 

Anyway, I didn't get to pick up Batwoman, Grifter, or Frankenstein.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

See, I just finished reading Manhunter. I thought it was a great series but it still got cancelled after 39 issues.

However, 39 issues is still pretty good. I'd love it if Batgirl had another 15 issues : /


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

Manhunter is another lady that has been benched by DC



Petes12 said:


> going back to the looks that people who don't read comics recognize, would be more accurate. notice the nonkord blue beetle (thank god he made it into a cartoon or that kid would be dead).
> 
> hey I think it's dumb too, like anyone who watched green lantern even remembers 'random black chick with random flashback' was named amanda waller
> 
> i feel like im the messenger and getting shot!



Amanda Waller was in the JLA cartoon and the Superman cartoon.

She didn't look like a supermodel there.


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 15, 2011)

Tits sell   .


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Manhunter is another lady that has been benched by DC
> 
> Amanda Waller was in the JLA cartoon and the Superman cartoon.
> 
> She didn't look like a supermodel there.



 

Maybe when I hear this benching, I think like sports and like once Brian Scalabrine of the Boston Celtics (circa 2008), he will EVENTUALLY get called.  Poor analogy maybe.

Dunno then.  Blame the casting crew of that abortion of a Green Lantern flick?  Pretty sure Angela Bassett (sp?) made that much of an impression.



Whimsy said:


> Tits sell   .



And /discussion.

/light sarcasm


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Manhunter is another lady that has been benched by DC



To be fair, 39 issues for a character most people don't know is pretty good and if it doesn't sell it doesn't sell and you have to cancel it. If I could commission or write a series for any character I like who doesn't normally have their own series 39 would be more than enough for me.

And where else would Kate go? The Birds are already up to five or six members (All female) and the League, for now, is limited to the people the dude in the street could name. Even if she did join she'd be taking the place of another lower tier character who'd probably be a woman, like Vixen or Black Canary, or someone second tier, like Roy or Red Tornado, and none of them ever had their own series. Besides, she's not really a good fit for the JL anyway. She's also not really suited to be someone else's supporting character like Rose has become in Superboy.

The difference is Manhunter has always been on her own. Meanwhile Steph and Cass are at the heart of the Batfamily but are regularly ignored while their male counterparts are included at every turn. It's not even having their own series: Dick and Tim make frequent guest appearances everywhere and Damian is shaping up to be the same. Cass has barely appeared on page since the OYL debacle and I have no reason to see Steph being treated any differently since she doesn't even have nominal reasons to be included like a Bat on her chest or being Bruce Wayne's adopted daughter


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

Man Grifter was pretty great, ROM Spaceknight + They Live = Fun fun times.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

*does further research, deletes post, and hangs head in shame*

And for a second I thought you were talking about J'onn J'onzz the Martian Manhunter which is why I was slightly confused at Gabz's post about a lady.  I know nothing of this one.  Well that's egg in my face. 

I'm just going to go sit in the corner right now and get some more coffee.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

Even better, Kate is the 5th Manhunter!

And she has nothing to do with any of the other ones!


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

There are a lot of teams/organizations in the NuDCU I thought it was bloated before but now it really feels it.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

Hey, question, why is there a Red Lantern on going series?

I know Dex-Star, kitty-cat of rage, is awesome but can you seriously write more than six issues worth of stuff about them?


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

I do hope there really isn't this notion that females (or at least the desired ones) will forever be sidelined in DC comics.  It's mostly because it will flirt with conspiracy despite Gail Simone at some of it.  The way I see it, there are many, and having your cake and eating it too all in ONE go is too much.  Strength in numbers isn't necessarily strength, a reboot means a reboot as in going back to some beginnings (pre-goalie sized Waller e.g. ), and to pull a Catholic, patience is a virtue.  I won't profess to having an encyclopedic knowledge of DC despite my own preferences, but from what I know they've crafted enough good characters to still be able to give justice too, but all in due time.

And for the record, even the little fictions I've ever decided to craft on my own free will has me developing females more than males.  I call it an affinity and I actually really enjoy creating and fleshing out females in the genres I try to work on for kicks.  Regardless, thrusting all of them into the limelight prematurely IMO will just cause confusion.  The Batfamily is of a considerable size yet I don't think fitting them all in there is going to work the way we want it to even if people decry the cameos of the earlier Robins.  Putting Cass in there without any sort of real purpose or backstory makes about as much sense as my finger in an exposed blender.  Now I trust the DC writers (to an extent) to inevitably come to a crossroad where narrative, purpose, and plot will find it fitting for Cass and Steph, but until then I just have to twiddle my thumbs...same goes for Wally West.



The Pink Ninja said:


> Even better, Kate is the 5th Manhunter!
> 
> And she has nothing to do with any of the other ones!



So basically a tabula rasa?

That's always a plus.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 15, 2011)

I'd rather Steph stayed out for abit than get Beechen'd.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Hey, question, why is there a Red Lantern on going series?
> 
> I know Dex-Star, kitty-cat of rage, is awesome but can you seriously write more than six issues worth of stuff about them?



It is a very strange book that features what seems to be very personal creator introspection on the whole thing.

It is more than meets the eye. Also Milligan is turning the the group into a giant gang of Punishers which could be fun.


----------



## Penance (Sep 15, 2011)

Resurrection Man...


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> There are a lot of teams/organizations in the NuDCU I thought it was bloated before but now it really feels it.



There are a bunch of secret agencies running about (Superboy works for one, Frankenstein works for one, Suicide Squad are about, anyone else?)

But that said, other series don't matter until you get into crossover hell (like with Countdown tie-ins and the way before Infinite-Crisis OMACS and The Spectre were everywhere).

I got on fine reading Batgirl and Blue Beetle without know shit about the Flashes or Lanterns. There's room enough in the DCU for everyone so long as you can ignore them.

And it's not like the real world US Government doesn't have a zillion federal agencies.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> There are a bunch of secret agencies running about (Superboy works for one, Frankenstein works for one, Suicide Squad are about, anyone else?)
> 
> But that said, other series don't matter until you get into crossover hell (like with Countdown tie-ins and the way before Infinite-Crisis OMACS and The Spectre were everywhere).
> 
> ...



Seeing how I've worked for the Defense Intelligence Agency back in 2007 and 08, I can attest TPN is speaking truth.  Dime-a-fucking-dozen.


----------



## Glued (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> There are a bunch of secret agencies running about (Superboy works for one, Frankenstein works for one, Suicide Squad are about, anyone else?)
> 
> But that said, other series don't matter until you get into crossover hell (like with Countdown tie-ins and the way before Infinite-Crisis OMACS and The Spectre were everywhere).
> 
> ...



How would we know, they're supposed to be secret.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

Curiosity: If you guys could commission a limited or on going series for any existing DCU characters or a team of such characters (Even if they had never been teamed up before), who would you go for?


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Curiosity: If you guys could commission a limited or on going series for any existing DCU characters or a team of such characters (Even if they had never been teamed up before), who would you go for?



Heh...I've attended enough video teleconferences to know half that list by heart.  Oh...working for Uncle Sam. 

Hmmm...I would've said the Rogues but some were in Suicide Squad like Capt. Boomerang.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and perhaps go for Orion and the heroes of New Genesis.  If not them, then the Flash Twins.  Yes I know Jai lost his powers, but I want them back.   Best part is, Wally and Linda are there too.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

The most surprising thing about the relaunch after two weeks is how many of the books do not shelve the past to move forward and how many demand prior knowledge or at least spend most of the first issues getting people caught up instead of moving forward and leaving the past in the past.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

New Gods could be good actually...


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> New Gods could be good actually...


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

I wouldn't do a straight up New Gods book, either Barda & Miracle or Forever People series.


The one character I am surprised didn't get a book is the Main Man.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I'd rather Steph stayed out for abit than get Beechen'd.



Well, I agree with that.

Same with her appearing in Batgirl.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> I wouldn't do a straight up New Gods book, either Barda & Miracle or Forever People series.
> 
> 
> The one character I am surprised didn't get a book is the Main Man.



Took the words outta my mouth.  I was about to plug Barda/Miracle but I figured you HAD to include Orion somewhere.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> The most surprising thing about the relaunch after two weeks is how many of the books do not shelve the past to move forward and how many demand prior knowledge or at least spend most of the first issues getting people caught up instead of moving forward and leaving the past in the past.



I agree with this. This ain't a problem for me because I started reading comic books a few months ago when the event was announced, but I think the first issues of series which kept their continuity should've had an explanation of recent events.

For example, I showed my brother Green Lantern #1 since he liked the movie (this is a title that should get lots of new readers because of it), but then I found myself explaining him who Sinestro was, the sinestro corps war, and why jordan didn't have a ring.

Definately not a good jumping on point.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Well, I agree with that.
> 
> Same with her appearing in Batgirl.



Disagree, Steph is a big part of Bab's life now. Her not appearing would be odd and further diminish her status in the DCU. Anyway, I trust Gail to write her.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Disagree, Steph is a big part of Bab's life now. Her not appearing would be odd and further diminish her status in the DCU. Anyway, I trust Gail to write her.



Exactly.  Why retcon/remove a character just because there's no immediate front page status?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Curiosity: If you guys could commission a limited or on going series for any existing DCU characters or a team of such characters (Even if they had never been teamed up before), who would you go for?



I'd normally say the Doom Patrol, but that got canelled recently due to bad sales...

as wierd as it sounds if done right, Plastic Man could sell very well, if they made it for kids and young teens in mind. 

Maybe a Mr. Miracle book, and if that sells well try a few other new god books, like Orion

make a new Captain Marvel book, now that I think sbout it.

Maybe try and give the Metal Men a new mini series and if it sells well, give them an ongoing. geer it towards children as like Plastic Man they seem like the type of characters kids would like.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Disagree, *Steph is a big part of Bab's life now.* Her not appearing would be odd and further diminish her status in the DCU.



Is she?



The Pink Ninja said:


> Anyway, I trust Gail to write her.



I don't.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I don't.



I smell a wager.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

I think Simone would try to do right be steph but tbh I can't imagine her getting the dialog right.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I think Simone would try to do right be steph but tbh I can't imagine her getting the dialog right.



To err is human, to forgive divine.

But I would REALLY prefer it just take a tactical pause.  Good writing doesn't come easy or immediately.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Manhunter is another lady that has been benched by DC



They kept her series going even when it wasn't really profitable and was below cancellation numbers to be fair... and then even continued her story in a backup for a while. You can't say they didn't try with her.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Hey, question, why is there a Red Lantern on going series?
> 
> I know Dex-Star, kitty-cat of rage, is awesome but can you seriously write more than six issues worth of stuff about them?



You can write more stories for them, not too hard, it's "what if Punisher was a Green Lantern?" I don't have high hopes for quality though.

I've mentioned what book I would do if I could commission one. But I'll Shazam except there's a lot of changes I would make to captain marvel myself.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I think Simone would try to do right be steph but tbh I can't imagine her getting the dialog right.



"Gotham bless my aim"


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Is she?



Until proven otherwise ?__?



> I don't.



Why not? 



Petes12 said:


> I think Simone would try to do right be steph but tbh I can't imagine her getting the dialog right.



I can't imagine anyone getting it right other than BQM or this one fanfic writer on Tumblr but that's what you have to accept in the DCU when a character will be written by many writers.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> "Gotham bless my aim"



yeah. I like Simone well enough but she has a tendency for some weird dialog and can be a bit melodramatic... especially in the dialog boxes. 

She was approached for every Batgirl book you know, Cass's (but they did OYL instead ) and Steph's (before going with BQM when she said no). Which is mostly funny because her writing Cass in Cass's head would be soooooo wrong.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

The ideas she had for Cass were... ugh.



The Pink Ninja said:


> Until proven otherwise ?__?



She was in the wheelchair for three years and she has been de-aged. That alone proves her relationship with both Cass and Steph is different.



The Pink Ninja said:


> Why not?



I don't think she can write teenagers. And I don't like her dialogue most of the time.



The Pink Ninja said:


> I can't imagine anyone getting it right other than BQM or this one fanfic writer on Tumblr but that's what you have to accept in the DCU when a character will be written by many writers.



There are plenty of people that can get it right. I don't think Simone is one of them.

Besides, I don't want Steph or Cass anywhere near the Batgirl book.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

Cute sig Gabz...Damien looks like such a stuffy little bugger ya just wanna squeeze his cheeks. 

But yeah it's a semi-crapshoot with Gail Simone.  Just gotta hope for the best.  However if she's the best thing going for the females then hell...either place your faith in the Emperor her or start petitioning for newer writers.

Lemme ask you all, have you seen any new writers not even in DC but elsewhere that could fill the void?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

I wouldn't mind them showing up for a teamup or whatever. Just not in batgirl as ongoing characters.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

Fair enough I guess.


----------



## Krypton (Sep 15, 2011)

Question? Just read all the new 52, so my question is what's the contunuity in the Green Lanters books.

In JL#1 Hal just got his ring, but in Green lantern#1 Hal still retains all his memories. So what's the continuity and time line.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

Krypton said:


> Question? Just read all the new 52, so my question is what's the contunuity in the Green Lanters books.
> 
> In JL#1 Hal just got his ring, but in Green lantern#1 Hal still retains all his memories. So what's the continuity and time line.



Justice League takes place 5 years ago (which it says on the first page )

After it finishes the origin story of the League we're assuming it'll catch up to the present tense.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

JL#1 has a text box on the first page that says FIVE YEARS AGO


Also about Batgirl I finally decided to read it and the major thing that struck me that was different compared to EVERY OTHER Batgirl book ever was that Barbara wasn't having fun. She came off as a bland version of Bruce who happens to be a girl. That is the one central theme of all the Batgirl's is that there isn't a tragedy to push them forward they see Bruce doing it and decide HELL YES I am going to do that and have a blast while doing it. 

The art / coloring also does not help this sapping of fun.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 15, 2011)

This panel was creepy.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

That is just the Manke style. Johns really wasted him in this first issue doing a pretty shit job showing Sinestro as a Green Lantern.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 15, 2011)

Krypton said:


> Question? Just read all the new 52, so my question is what's the contunuity in the Green Lanters books.
> 
> In JL#1 Hal just got his ring, but in Green lantern#1 Hal still retains all his memories. So what's the continuity and time line.



Justice League is set five years ago, when Hal was a rookie, as it was stated in one of the first panels.

GL is set in the present.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Also about Batgirl I finally decided to read it and the major thing that struck me that was different compared to EVERY OTHER Batgirl book ever was that Barbara wasn't having fun. She came off as a bland version of Bruce who happens to be a girl. That is the one central theme of all the Batgirl's is that there isn't a tragedy to push them forward they see Bruce doing it and decide HELL YES I am going to do that and have a blast while doing it.
> 
> The art / coloring also does not help this sapping of fun.


Pfft that's one of the things it's getting right- Barbara's still being written as Oracle, if she got her mobility back, rather than dumping all that character progression in favor of doing exactly the same thing Steph was doing anyway. She hardly comes off as similar to Bruce though, and she does enjoy it to an extent.

And Cass wasn't doing it for fun or any of that, what'd you skip over her entirely?


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

I can't stand that character but I never bring it up for obvious reasons pertaining to the posters of this section.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

There's no requirement for a Batgirl book to be done in exactly the tone of Stephanie's book. Hell it's something that'd make more sense to me in a Supergirl or Wonder Girl book.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Pfft that's one of the things it's getting right- Barbara's still being written as Oracle, if she got her mobility back, rather than dumping all that character progression in favor of doing exactly the same thing Steph was doing anyway. She hardly comes off as similar to Bruce though, and she does enjoy it to an extent.
> 
> And Cass wasn't doing it for fun or any of that, what'd you skip over her entirely?



I disagree. Oracle Babs would never say shit like "Gotham bless my aim".


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I disagree. Oracle Babs would never say shit like "Gotham bless my aim".



Wow.

I'm a Warhammer 40K fan first and foremost.  I've been exposed to some serious Christmas HAM since 2005, enough to last me a decade for family functions, and I must say...that a line like that beats about 90% of the lines I've read EVER in W40K.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

Ignoring the Tony Daniels moment, Simone's writing her as the same person.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

That doesn't feel genuine then because the same person wouldn't be wearing the costume again. It becomes as needless as everyone has been complaining about since it was announced.


Oh and the Amanda Waller thing is making me dislike the Green Lantern movie even more.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Ignoring the Tony Daniels moment, Simone's writing her as the same person.



Doesn't matter.  A man like me accustomed to cheesy cliches and lines ad nauseum seeing that will still cringe.  Not even Spess Mehrens say something like that.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

For the love of Highfather, can't we keep this to a Batgirl thread already?


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

Space Marines are entirely that dumb they have always been, GW has just tried in the modern incarnations to make them serious that doesn't make the entire concept any less silly.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> That doesn't feel genuine then because the same person wouldn't be wearing the costume again.



why not? she liked it before. such a silly complaint, that she kept the stuff that's made her interesting over the years and didn't go back to campy purse-wearing batgirl that stephanie brown did loads better anyway.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> For the love of Highfather, can't we keep this to a Batgirl thread already?


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Ignoring the Tony Daniels moment, Simone's writing her as the same person.



I can give you a list of why that's not true. Let's start with the fact that Oracle would not have frozen in fear if somebody had pointed a gun at her.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Space Marines are entirely that dumb they have always been, GW has just tried in the modern incarnations to make them serious that doesn't make the entire concept any less silly.



Dude, you're talking to the relative expert.  The concept back in the 1980s was silly and yes you're right about the recent changes but at least it's been helping garner popularity.  But honestly, everyone ACKNOWLEDGES the entire universe is silly.  What makes things worse with Batgirl was that she said this, unbeknownst to me until Gabzy revealed, in a genre that's supposed to a little more realistic.  Gotham doesn't have servo skulls, the Ruinous Powers, automatons who devour souls, FOAR TEH EMPRAH, and all that.  When I say Space Marines don't say things that bad, it's because it's already accepted that 40K is as absurd and awful a universe as anyone could imagine.

Point is, I expect Space Marines, not Batgirl.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

Oh, go blow up a planet or something.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

I'd say in a fictional sense Gotham is equally ridiculous but that is neither here nor there.


Also the cop at the end of the issue is a fucking moron.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Also the cop at the end of the issue is a fucking moron.



To be completely honest, we are talking about someone who just witnessed the death of their partner. They may not be in their right mind. Frankly, I would argue that she's probably projecting her own feelings about not being able to stop the guy onto Batgirl.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> I'd say in a fictional sense Gotham is equally ridiculous but that is neither here nor there.



Um...*scratches head*

And no Guy, STFU means STFU.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I can give you a list of why that's not true. Let's start with the fact that Oracle would not have frozen in fear if somebody had pointed a gun at her.



True, no one would ever dare write her as at all vulnerable while she was in the chair. But its also a sensible way to address her going back to batgirl.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> I'd say in a fictional sense Gotham is equally ridiculous but that is neither here nor there.
> 
> 
> Also the cop at the end of the issue is a fucking moron.



But she had a concussion, she wasn't thinking straight! That's why she pointed the gun at Batgirl and not at the villain that was... still standing right there.

Let's ignore the prior panels where she had no problems telling Batgirl to stop the criminal. 



Petes12 said:


> True, no one would ever dare write her as at all vulnerable while she was in the chair. But its also a sensible way to address her going back to batgirl.



And I didn't say that's wrong. I'm saying she's not being written as Oracle, that's all.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

Mael said:


> Um...*scratches head*
> 
> And no Guy, STFU means STFU.



Gotham is as crazy a place as the Warhammer Universe.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I can give you a list of why that's not true. Let's start with the fact that Oracle would not have frozen in fear if somebody had pointed a gun at her.



The thing is there's been a much smaller time gap between The Killing Joke and current time, unlike in the old timeline when a decade has more than likely passed. with only three years passing it makes sense for some of the psychological scars to still be present.

also combining with the fact The Mirror pointed the gun at the exact same spot the Joker did, it does sort of make sense


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 15, 2011)

Deathstroke was alright, not much of anything happened aside from introducing Slade, he is quite the brutal one

Grifter was moving a little too fast.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> The thing is there's been a much smaller time gap between The Killing Joke and current time, unlike in the old timeline when a decade has more than likely passed. with only three years passing it makes sense for some of the psychological scars to still be present.
> 
> also combining with the fact The Mirror pointed the gun at the exact same spot the Joker did, it does sort of make sense



This, and we don't have a clear idea of what occurred with Birds of Prey. She may have never fought Joker like she did during... Bedard's run? She might still have those sorts of demons.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

A decade had definitely not passed since Barbara had been shot. 5 years maybe. If it'd been a decade Tim Drake would've been in his early 20s.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

3 years have passed since she was shot.



Emperor Joker said:


> The thing is there's been a much smaller time gap between The Killing Joke and current time, unlike in the old timeline when a decade has more than likely passed. with only three years passing it makes sense for some of the psychological scars to still be present.
> 
> also combining with the fact The Mirror pointed the gun at the exact same spot the Joker did, it does sort of make sense



Again, my point wasn't that her reaction was wrong. My point is that she's not being written like she was before.


----------



## Krypton (Sep 15, 2011)

Can't believe i miss the five years written in red felt a little stupid.

Green Lantern#1 was a let down really. It shows how much of a douche the Guardians really are, having Sinestro showing up to Hal in the first book was also a let down.

Love the Bruce's and Damien banter. It's official, never cared for Batman, but because of Damien's personality and his banter with Bruce will have me going back for more.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I can give you a list of why that's not true. Let's start with the fact that Oracle would not have frozen in fear if somebody had pointed a gun at her.



Yea...

Personally I really hate the way Babs flip flops between "I'm going to put this behind me and be the best Babs I can be" and "Its not something I could ever put behind me"

But yea, for me its just weird. Her inner voice is Barbara Gordon, but when she talks its like she's just trying way too hard to be peppy and fun. 

I dunno, her being Batgirl to me is like when you see those 30 year olds dressed in the same stuff as their 16 year old daughter.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

I know but they're saying a decade got compressed down to 3 years. Definitely not.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

Measuring time in comics always gives me headaches. Characters age at different rates.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

Most of the reason I am planning to stay far away from the Batbooks in this whole thing. The waters are much too muddy.

I hope Snyder can navigate of previous continuity easier in Batman (hopefully without the neeedless 5 pages of Superman from ST#1 this time)


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

Batman has been out of the shadows for 5 years. Babs was in the wheelchair for three years.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea...
> 
> Personally I really hate the way Babs flip flops between "I'm going to put this behind me and be the best Babs I can be" and "Its not something I could ever put behind me"
> 
> ...



I agree.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Measuring time in comics always gives me headaches. Characters age at different rates.



It isn't ages at all it is the selective cut and paste job they have done with this reboot.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 15, 2011)

My point still stands though, with a lesser time gap than in the original timeline, it makes sense for some of the psychological trauma to still be there. especially if she never beat the Joker during the Birds of Prey arc he was in...i'm pretty sure it was near the end of Dixon's run not bedard's though.

also with her stint in the Suicide Squad no longer being canon judging by Squad book itself, who can say how much of the Birds of Prey books still happened.

Edit: Yes Gabz we are aware of that, but that's the current timeline, I'm talking about the old one mostly.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> It isn't ages at all it is the selective cut and paste job they have done with this reboot.



It was a mistake to let Daniels define it at all, they should've kept it ambiguous or else laid it out very clearly in a way that works for all the writers (which should've been fucking easy)


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

Regardless, Babs for now seems a work in progress.  Activate senses to...apprehension.



Taleran said:


> Gotham is as crazy a place as the Warhammer Universe.



Heresy.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> It isn't ages at all it is the selective cut and paste job they have done with this reboot.



I was speaking of measuring time pre-reboot, where it kind of feels like 20 years have passed in the DCU... but it hasn't.

And frankly, I think continuity is rather easy: There are, like, 5 things that have happened pre-boot that matter.

1) Killing Joke
2) Bane breaking Batman
3) Death of Superman
4) Johns' Green Lantern stuff
5) The most recent Batman stuff

After that, you need not really think about anything else. There are some hints to the past continuity (like Swamp Thing), but they aren't exactly necessary to understanding it (I didn't read Brightest Day and understood it). Hell, outside of knowing the characters the Legion book doesn't really rely on any previous stories.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

No see then you throw Jason Todd onto that and you need Infinite Crisis then you have Swamp Thing bringing up Brightest Day and 4 Robins running around etc etc etc.

There are a lot of events that need to happen in pre boot to make sense now. 

I really wish looking back they really just wiped the slate clean but everyone knew that wasn't gonna happen.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 15, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> My point still stands though, with a lesser time gap than in the original timeline, it makes sense for some of the psychological trauma to still be there. especially if she never beat the Joker during the Birds of Prey arc he was in...i'm pretty sure it was near the end of Dixon's run not bedard's though.
> 
> also with her stint in the Suicide Squad no longer being canon judging by Squad book itself, who can say how much of the Birds of Prey books still happened.
> 
> Edit: Yes Gabz we are aware of that, but that's the current timeline, I'm talking about the old one mostly.



I know the timeline has been compressed, so yea it does make sense. The thing is though, I've already read plenty of issues about her going from victim to rising above it and pretty much everywhere in between. And that was when it was an event that completely changed her life going forward, not just an event that completely changed her life for a few years. I don't really see how they can cover that territory again and have it be interesting to people who have already read BoP. Especially when most of those issues were written by Simone. 

Not saying some won't find it interesting, but its just not for me.

I'll still read it, since Simone's a good writer and I hope for the best, but its going to be very tough to convince me that Babs Batgirl is a good idea. Especially when you they had the option of continuing an already successfully established batgirl title.

Also, after reading Suicide Squad, they really should have just rebooted Secret Six with the Suicide Squad concept. Then later you can have the Six break off from the Squad and do their own thing.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

I've read DC saying Batman's supposed to have been active 10 years, which makes perfect sense and everything works fine. But then Daniels fucks it up by saying the Joker's only been around 6... which I guess still sort of works but really?


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> No see then you throw Jason Todd onto that and you need Infinite Crisis then you have Swamp Thing bringing up Brightest Day and 4 Robins running around etc etc etc.
> 
> There are a lot of events that need to happen in pre boot to make sense now.
> 
> I really wish looking back they really just wiped the slate clean but everyone knew that wasn't gonna happen.



Yeah, events aside, are Tim Drake's parents still dead? In this continuity the Titans are meeting for the first time and YJ never happened, so that alone changes his character dramatically.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

Also very interesting if deliberate, funny if not. In B&R they make reference to the wrong time, it was 10:47 before and they said 10:48

Typo or reboot joke, you decide.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> No see then you throw Jason Todd



Okay, Jason coming back. That's 6.



> onto that and then you have Swamp Thing bringing up Brightest Day



I didn't read any of Brightest Day. You don't even need it. the whole crux of the idea can be summed up as follows: "Alec Holland tries to start a new life, and must reconcile that he was and still is Swamp Thing." It's absolutely not necessary to read Brightest Day to know this.



> and then you have Damian Wayne.



Recent Bat Continuity. I already listed it.



> There are a lot of events that need to happen is pre boot to make sense now.



Not really. Most of it can just be brushed over without needing to reference or read the events to understand. Prime example: Hawk and Dove. Is it important that I read Brightest Day to know that Dove and Deadman are apparently an item? No. The book establishes it. Similarly, I don't need to read Crisis on Infinite Earths to understand what happened to Don: he died sometime in the past and was replaced by the new Dove. Just because it might be similar to the old continuity doesn't necessary mean that the old continuity is absolutely necessary to understand it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Yeah, events aside, are Tim Drake's parents still dead? In this continuity the Titans are meeting for the first time and YJ never happened, so that alone changes his character dramatically.



I totally forgot about that. I'd love for Tim's dad to still be around.

Also Gabs, I checked out your DA. I love how you draw Tim "no fun" Drake. I feel like in all your stuff he's either humorously apathetic or humorously glaring at Damian.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

I don't really care about time and age of characters so long as they leave it ambigious so those who want to think a character is X age can think that and those who want to think it is Y age can think that.

Problem is they keep bringing it up. It didn't work before the reboot and it won't work now.

I'll be glad when the new 52 are the old 52 and they stop trying to fit all these complicated comics into a consistent timeline.

I blame the History Monks.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 15, 2011)

So the hooded guy/girl that appears in every comic, do you think something will become of it? or is it just an easter egg?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Yeah, events aside, are Tim Drake's parents still dead? In this continuity the Titans are meeting for the first time and YJ never happened, so that alone changes his character dramatically.



I wish his dad were still around but they said identity crisis was still in continuity


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Yeah, events aside, are Tim Drake's parents still dead? In this continuity the Titans are meeting for the first time and YJ never happened, so that alone changes his character dramatically.



His mum pretty much died in his origin story and Identity Crisis is, as far as I know, still canon.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

If there was ever a time for DC to incorporate re-cap pages.

Front load useful information, comic begins hit the ground running.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I don't really care about time and age of characters so long as they leave it ambigious so those who want to think a character is X age can think that and those who want to think it is Y age can think that.
> 
> Problem is they keep bringing it up. It didn't work before the reboot and it won't work now.
> 
> ...



I don't think they are trying to fit all this history in. Outside of the big stuff, I think they are just ignoring a lot of it. It's the people who actually care about continuity i.e. everyone here who are foolishly trying to figure out ways to compress it all down and make it fit.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I wish his dad were still around but they said identity crisis was still in continuity



That makes me a


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> So the hooded guy/girl that appears in every comic, do you think something will become of it? or is it just an easter egg?



Emergency abort button.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

It's also not like you couldn't get all the relevant stuff for pretty much any comic done in 4 to 8 sentences.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Emergency abort button.



There's no way they are aborting this. People keep saying it, but let's face facts: They've already pulled the trigger. There's no putting the bullet back into the casing.



The Pink Ninja said:


> It's also not like you couldn't get all the relevant stuff for pretty much any comic done in 4 to 8 sentences.



I remember they gave some lame excuse as to why they don't do it in an interview. Something about wasting a page or something... All I know is that a small recap page would be nice sometimes.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

I don't mind if things are ambiguous but they make a thing out of it so I can't help but wonder how the new info fits with Damian being around etc.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 15, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> So the hooded guy/girl that appears in every comic, do you think something will become of it? or is it just an easter egg?



She's probably someone who will be fully explained in the years to come...or whenever DC decides to do another event...so next year probably.



Petes12 said:


> I wish his dad were still around but they said identity crisis was still in continuity



Fuck Identity Crisis, that book deserves to be forgotten


----------



## ~Avant~ (Sep 15, 2011)

I know I'm super late, but I just read up on the New 52 titles, and I was unpleasantly surprised by the complete neglect Dr. Fate and Captain Marvel are getting. Some of the other titles are just complete waste's of space that these two characters would've fillled far better. Also the lack of a New God's or Orion title was very disappointing as well, but hopefully Firestorm will incorporate the them in its title.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

Would not expect any new gods other than Darkseid in JL. 

Supposedly there's a Captain Marvel book planned but who knows.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

The Marvel family could have used a reboot.

Alas...



Whip Whirlwind said:


> I totally forgot about that. I'd love for Tim's dad to still be around.
> 
> Also Gabs, I checked out your DA. I love how you draw Tim "no fun" Drake. I feel like in all your stuff he's either humorously apathetic or humorously glaring at Damian.



I don't even know what Tim is like post reboot. The deaths of Bart, Kon and his dad made a huge impact on his character. Get rid of that...

Or being embarrased by boobs  Thank you.



Sephiroth said:


> So the hooded guy/girl that appears in every comic, do you think something will become of it? or is it just an easter egg?



No matter what Didio says, I still believe she's the fail safe in case this reboot crashes and burns.

Or Steph.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

~Avant~ said:


> I know I'm super late, but I just read up on the New 52 titles, and I was unpleasantly surprised by the complete neglect Dr. Fate and Captain Marvel are getting. Some of the other titles are just complete waste's of space that these two characters would've fillled far better. Also the lack of a New God's or Orion title was very disappointing as well, but hopefully Firestorm will incorporate the them in its title.



Dr. Fate is likely going to be in the Earth-2 book.

At moment, I'm fairly sure DC has no clue as to what to do with the Marvel Family. Apparently they are "reevaluating" the Marvel family, but they don't know where it fits in with the current universe. Apparently they thought the "Superman/Guardian of Magic" deal wasn't quite working out.

The New Gods are taking a break for a while, which is probably for the best.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

Speaking of I am kinda terrified of a Jim Lee designed Darkseid.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 15, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> There's no way they are aborting this. People keep saying it, but let's face facts: They've already pulled the trigger. There's no putting the bullet back into the casing.
> 
> 
> 
> I remember they gave some lame excuse as to why they don't do it in an interview.* Something about wasting a page or something... All I know is that a small recap page would be nice sometimes*.



wasting a page sure doesn't stop Marvel from doing it lol


----------



## ~Avant~ (Sep 15, 2011)

No New God's?? Bullshit


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

I'd be more confused at how you do Infinite Crisis without people like Ted Kord, Kon-El's death, and other things. Frankly, I thought that was the stuff being wiped clean, though even if it's not I doubt it's ever going to be mentioned outside of the vaguest statements again.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 15, 2011)

~Avant~ said:


> No New God's?? Bullshit



Only Darkseid apparently...all the others apparently got rezzed into existence on another universe from what i;ve heard.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I don't even know what Tim is like post reboot. The deaths of Bart, Kon and his dad made a huge impact on his character. Get rid of that...


before all that though he was a pretty optimistic character that was always made a point of to contrast him against batman. reading that felt like character destruction only outdone by cass cain... which also took place in robin


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Only Darkseid apparently...all the others apparently got rezzed into existence on another universe from what i;ve heard.



They occupy the place where the old Earth-1 used to be before Darkseid destroyed it. At least, that's what I remember hearing.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 15, 2011)

~Avant~ said:


> I know I'm super late, but I just read up on the New 52 titles, and I was unpleasantly surprised by the complete neglect Dr. Fate and Captain Marvel are getting. Some of the other titles are just complete waste's of space that these two characters would've fillled far better. Also the lack of a New God's or Orion title was very disappointing as well, but hopefully Firestorm will incorporate the them in its title.



I would like to see a new Shazam comic as well.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> before all that though he was a pretty optimistic character that was always made a point of to contrast him against batman. reading that felt like character destruction only outdone by cass cain... which also took place in robin



Yeah, so are they going to go with his Red Robin personality or go back to the pre-wangst one?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> before all that though he was a pretty optimistic character that was always made a point of to contrast him against batman. reading that felt like character destruction only outdone by cass cain... which also took place in robin



He got way, way too obsessed with reviving Kon. It didn't help that that was around the time that Teen Titans took a huge nosedive in quality.



gabzilla said:


> Yeah, so are they going to go with his Red Robin personality or go back to the pre-wangst one?



I really hope pre-wangst. Morrison's take on him felt a lot lighter than he had been for a long time.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 15, 2011)

It's actually more like saving a page, since, because of the lack of a recap page, you see a lot of DC writers going in strange weird contortions for four or five pages to try and remind people what went before while keeping the story moving. As a result DC's policy feels more like three pages wasted instead.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Yeah, so are they going to go with his Red Robin personality or go back to the pre-wangst one?



who knows. I doubt it'll be touched on too much either way actually. 

but I find it really funny that the one death you left out was steph's!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I don't even know what Tim is like post reboot. The deaths of Bart, Kon and his dad made a huge impact on his character. Get rid of that...



I'm guessing he'll be closer to his PAD/Dixon (YJ and Robin) days, which I'm absolutely fine with. He still treated being Robin like the most serious part time job ever, and was often the straight man to Kon and Bart, but he wasn't all angstastic all the time.

Also, he was more awkward and nerdy, which was fun. Some of his initial steph moments (or as you'd put it omg girl parts ! ) are some of my favorite moments for him. 



> Or being embarrased by boobs  Thank you.



Exactly


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

Cromer said:


> It's actually more like saving a page, since, because of the lack of a recap page, you see a lot of DC writers going in strange weird contortions for four or five pages to try and remind people what went before while keeping the story moving. As a result DC's policy feels more like three pages wasted instead.



Exactly. The first four pages of Deathstroke could be covered in a recap page describing what he does. Now whether you think that's good or not is your own choice.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Sep 15, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Dr. Fate is likely going to be in the Earth-2 book.
> 
> 
> At moment, I'm fairly sure DC has no clue as to what to do with the Marvel Family. Apparently they are "reevaluating" the Marvel family, but they don't know where it fits in with the current universe. Apparently they thought the "Superman/Guardian of Magic" deal wasn't quite working out.
> ...



They must be pretty terrible writers then. Just turn Wonder Woman's mythos into the Greco-Roman counterpart to Thor's Norse Mythology from Marvel.

Think of someway to link the New Gods to that mythology, add Shazam and Nabu to the New God's roster and make them the Magic equivalent to the The Guardian's. 

And I just pulled that out of my ass.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> who knows. I doubt it'll be touched on too much either way actually.
> 
> but I find it really funny that the one death you left out was steph's!



Tim spent 5 minutes mourning her.

He was more worried about reviving his boyfriend than about his dead girlfriend. Cass mourned her more than he did.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> I'm guessing he'll be closer to his PAD/Dixon (YJ and Robin) days, which I'm absolutely fine with. He still treated being Robin like the most serious part time job ever, and was often the straight man to Kon and Bart, but he wasn't all angstastic all the time.
> 
> Also, he was more awkward and nerdy, which was fun. Some of his initial steph moments (or as you'd put it omg girl parts ! ) are some of my favorite moments for him.



I miss that Tim.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Exactly


----------



## Platinum (Sep 15, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> So the hooded guy/girl that appears in every comic, do you think something will become of it? or is it just an easter egg?



It's going to lead up to the next event i'm guessing.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 15, 2011)

I'd rather have a recap page then 3 pages trying to recap and keep the story simultaneously.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Tim spent 5 minutes mourning her.
> 
> He was more worried about reviving his boyfriend than about his dead girlfriend. Cass mourned her more than he did.



She was so unmourned that they had to retcon her simply so everyone didn't look like a total douchebag.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 15, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I'd rather have a recap page then 3 pages trying to recap and keep the story simultaneously.



This...so much this. do it in the style Jounrey Into Mystery is doing it where you have a character explain what happened in a page (In other words the way Mephisto and Lea did it) insteasd of a generic one. a three page recap isn't needed.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> She was so unmourned that they had to retcon her simply so everyone didn't look like a total douchebag.



Exactly.

Cass did most of the mourning. The rest practically forgot her.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Cass did most of the mourning. The rest practically forgot her.



Hilarious part is that (in looking this up, as I avoided it after hearing about Leslie Tompkins' part in it) the writer of Batgirl at the time apparently opposed the move. That may explain why Cass mourned her at all, compared to the rest of the Batfamily.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> This...so much this. do it in the style Jounrey Into Mystery is doing it where you have a character explain what happened in a page (In other words the way Mephisto and Lea did it) insteasd of a generic one. a three page recap isn't needed.



Well Marvel realized it was the way to go and they ran with it making it inventive along the way


The Agents of Atlas ones are also great.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Hilarious part is that (in looking this up, as I avoided it after hearing about Leslie Tompkins' part in it) the writer of Batgirl at the time apparently opposed the move. That may explain why Cass mourned her at all, compared to the rest of the Batfamily.



He refused to be involved in it. I believe that's why Cass didn't appear much in War Games and the rest of that tripe. She was also the only one looking for her when she disappeared, went to the funeral and had an inner monologue about it and saw ghost!Steph when she was about to die.

Compare that to Tim's "I don't have any tears left. Steph will have to wait now I'm gonna try to revive Kon and change my suit to honour him"


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Tim spent 5 minutes mourning her.
> 
> He was more worried about reviving his boyfriend than about his dead girlfriend. Cass mourned her more than he did.



yeah thats why I thought it was funny that you seemed to exclude her just as much as the writers who got crap for it did. 

it really is amazing how Johns thought it would be a good idea to show him trying to clone kon. and then the weird wondergirl thing. I think when they kissed they were both imagining the other was conner.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

And then they made out on top of the clone tanks or something


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 15, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> He refused to be involved in it. I believe that's why Cass didn't appear much in War Games and the rest of that tripe. She was also the only one looking for her when she disappeared, went to the funeral and had an inner monologue about it and saw ghost!Steph when she was about to die.
> 
> Compare that to Tim's "I don't have any tears left. Steph will have to wait now I'm gonna try to revive Kon and change my suit to honour him"



Yea, Tim's character honestly took a nosedive from OYL onwards. It didn't help that between Robin and TT the writing was pretty much meh. Yosts Red Robin arc was a short time of greatness, then Nicieza kinda brought him back to mediocrity. And War Games was just...war games. To quote the drunk Robin guys " War Games! This is a poorly written storyline!"

I'm trying to have high hopes for Tim in this reboot, stripping away all the angst is a great move for the character. Lobdell just needs to not suck. Reading Superboy makes me think he'll at least do ok.

@Petes and Tal, stop it, you're giving me flashbacks.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> And then they made out on top of the clone tanks or something



Which is only really notable for leading into Titans East, in which Johns cemented the worst take on Deathstroke since Brad Meltzer: Deathstroke having a stalker-like relationship with his kids and constantly "testing" them. God, that... yeah.

Thank God for new Deathstroke.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

I wanted a scene where they were in bed and both said "oh conner..." at the exact same time, followed by a page of awkward silence


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I wanted a scene where they were in bed and both said "oh conner..." at the exact same time, followed by a page of awkward silence



Oh come on. It'd be better if she was using his computer and came across a Conner/Tim slash-fic he wrote.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

Tim only seems Conner obsessed if you read TT. In Robin he goes from War Games into Infinite crisis into fucking OYL and neither Conner nor Steph nor Dad seem much on his mind.

My biggest problem was that Cass vanishes for over a year and no one gave a shit.

That's the problem for me: During the missing year Bruce takes a year out and Dick and Tim go with him and Cass was left on the sidelines. That's her and Steph's story right there.

*I mean what the fuck : /*

Like I have said about a billion times at this point, Dick and to a lesser extent Tim are always involved in continuity because they always appear in other books all over the DCU. Steph and Cass have never had that, though since Steph was a Robin supporting character until she became Batgirl that's not suprising.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

No sorry the worst take on slade was the one right before the reboot.

Although I don't know if I can call comedy this good, bad



> Eric Wallace: It’s the first image I had way back when I was shaping the “Broken Promises” storyline. I’ve always wondered how Slade was able to fight so well with one eye. The answer is, of course, “Because he’s a badass.” But just how much of a badass fighter is he? Well, you can guess what popped into my head next. Because from that moment on I became determined to blind Slade entirely, then turn him loose on some bad guys (which we’ll see in Titans #35 & #36). And wow, it’s pretty exciting. And intense.



The best part of the whole thing is this is the guy who ended up taking out his other eye.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 15, 2011)

Deathstroke's Titans was a travesty all around to be honest Tal...there was nothing remotely reddemable about the book


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 15, 2011)

Superboy got a full reboot I see, that's nice, and seems the same applies to the Titans.



Emperor Joker said:


> So I liked everything that came out of Dc this week. there was no crap like Hawk and Dove or JLI placed between the quality....everything was good....which is surprising considering I was expecting Suicide Squad, Legion Lost and Red Lanterns to suck balls



I resent that you put JLI on the same level as Hawk and Dove.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Tim only seems Conner obsessed if you read TT.



yep that was my mistake. this is why I almost dont care what Lobdell does, because TT has never been good. Or at least not new TT. If it's as good as his Superboy 1, it'll be the best teen titans comic in at least a decade.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

Anyone read Demon Knights yet?

I hear good things from Linkara and DCWomenKickingAss


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Anyone read Demon Knights yet?
> 
> I hear good things from Linkara and DCWomenKickingAss



Demon Kngiths was one of favorites (along with Frankenstein and Superboy) this week actually, despite Linkara's views on it not lasting long because of it's genre. I expect it to have a decent following if the fantasy crowd latches on to it.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

I think we can garantee some good 52 series will be cancelled at some point if not most of them.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Anyone read Demon Knights yet?
> 
> I hear good things from Linkara and DCWomenKickingAss



It's good, check it out. 

Vandal Savage was really different but in a good way I think.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

Why do you say most of the 52?  



The Pink Ninja said:


> Tim only seems Conner obsessed if you read TT. In Robin he goes from War Games into Infinite crisis into fucking OYL and neither Conner nor Steph nor Dad seem much on his mind.
> 
> My biggest problem was that Cass vanishes for over a year and no one gave a shit.
> 
> ...



I'm giving Dick Grayson a pass, because he was the original Robin.  Maybe it's the vintage guy in me that still allows this. Tim?  I don't feel it as much.  But I think even then leaving Cass just like that without so much as a proper explanation is what gets my goat since I've been catching up.  That's all I really wanted...just an explanation as to why.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Anyone read Demon Knights yet?
> 
> I hear good things from Linkara and DCWomenKickingAss



I'd argue it's probably the best overall comic of the relaunch: the art is beautiful, the concept is very fresh, and the writing is great.

I also disagree with Linkara on the length of it: DC Editorial has a habit of letting books go on if they do well in TPB or simply if they like it. Blue Beetle, Manhunter, and Secret Six are examples of that. I don't think this will get cut off as quickly as MI-13 was.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> yeah thats why I thought it was funny that you seemed to exclude her just as much as the writers who got crap for it did.
> 
> it really is amazing how Johns thought it would be a good idea to show him trying to clone kon. and then the weird wondergirl thing. I think when they kissed they were both imagining the other was conner.



I excluded her because he didn't seem to care. Her death had no impact when it came to him.

And they totally were thinking about Kon.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> yep that was my mistake. this is why I almost dont care what Lobdell does, because TT has never been good. Or at least not new TT. If it's as good as his Superboy 1, it'll be the best teen titans comic in at least a decade.



Which is just sad. Honestly, part of the problem is the baggage. The longer a book goes on being terrible the harder it is to make it good again without just completely cutting the tie between old and new.

So obviously that problem has been removed. Hopefully it'll be more like Young Justice.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So obviously that problem has been removed. Hopefully it'll be more like Young Justice.



I'm less worried about the quality of TT, but I am really wondering what the tone is going to be like. Superboy took me really off-guard with how it was built. If TT is similar, I don't think we'll be getting a Young Justice-style book.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 15, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I'm less worried about the quality of TT, but I am really wondering what the tone is going to be like. Superboy took me really off-guard with how it was built. If TT is similar, I don't think we'll be getting a Young Justice-style book.



From Lobdell's interviews it seems like it won't be that kind of tone, but you never really know until you actually get the book in your hands.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

Mael said:


> Why do you say most of the 52?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm giving Dick Grayson a pass, because he was the original Robin.  Maybe it's the vintage guy in me that still allows this. Tim?  I don't feel it as much.  But I think even then leaving Cass just like that without so much as a proper explanation is what gets my goat since I've been catching up.  That's all I really wanted...just an explanation as to why.



I don't begrudge Dick or Tim their place. Dick is almost as old a part of the Batman myth as the big guy himself and Tim has been THE Robin for most of my life. I just wish the writers of DC and the Batbooks exspecially used and acknowledged their are members of the Batfamily who aren't blue eyed, black haired men.

Basically I'm always in favour of new ideas, new chracters and new things in general.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I'm less worried about the quality of TT, but I am really wondering what the tone is going to be like. Superboy took me really off-guard with how it was built. If TT is similar, I don't think we'll be getting a Young Justice-style book.



No...I don't think so either...and it makes me sad since I've been looking for TT redemption since Cartoon Network fucked it up. 

Oh and over 3,000. :33


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I don't begrudge Dick or Tim their place. Dick is almost as old a part of the Batman myth as the big guy himself and Tim has been THE Robin for most of my life. I just wish the writers of DC and the Batbooks exspecially used and acknowledged their are members of the Batfamily who aren't blue eyed, black haired men.
> 
> Basically I'm always in favour of new ideas, new chracters and new things in general.



Racial/gender bias. 

But agreed.  One thing that always gets my goat is age inconsistency mixed...that and characters that deserve a nod but the powers that be feel it unnecessary.  It's too...Kishimoto.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2011)

I feel glad now I don't really give a shit about any of the Titans




Except Wally but he doesn't exist anymore.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

Taleran said:


> I feel glad now I don't really give a shit about any of the Titans
> 
> *Except Wally but he doesn't exist anymore*.





He's on that alien planet with Linda and the kids.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

Also, if we're going all out on the reboot, invite Craig McCracken:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91KK09FAux4[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Parallax (Sep 15, 2011)

I'm with Tal I haven't given a damn about the Titans since the 80s

and neither should you


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

I like the characters but I have never read a comic called Teen Titans that was good. No I did not read the wolfman/perez crap and don't try and convince me to 

I know enough to know I would hate it.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I like the characters but I have never read a comic called Teen Titans that was good. No I did not read the wolfman/perez crap and don't try and convince me to
> 
> I know enough to know I would hate it.





*I HATE*


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 15, 2011)

Parallax said:


> I'm with Tal I haven't given a damn about the Titans since the 80s
> 
> and neither should you



Well the current titans aren't even the titans. They really should just call the book young justice

And I only care about the NTT due to Wolfman/Perez nostalgia.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 15, 2011)

*John Rozum Walks Off Static Shock*



> I have resigned from Static Shock. Before any speculation starts the decision was entirely mine. My issues for leaving had nothing to do with the character or with DC Comics. I plan to continue working for DC long into the future and am developing new projects for them at this time.



Read More -


----------



## Parallax (Sep 15, 2011)

bullshit it had nothing to do with DC

maybe he'll get back to Xombi

but I doubt it :[


----------



## Parallax (Sep 15, 2011)

and petes continues to show why he sucks so bad


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 15, 2011)

Well I guess that puts Static in the can then...though i'm hoping DC can get another writer on the book.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 15, 2011)

I didn't even get around to reading Static.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 15, 2011)

And nothing of value was lost ?


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 15, 2011)

Huh I don't even know what Static is. If it's that black kid with super powers then pity.


----------



## Bender (Sep 15, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> I didn't even get around to reading Static.



I don't even want to go anywhere near that shitty piece of work rebooted story.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

Parallax said:


> and petes continues to show why he sucks so bad



Perez
Green Speedos
Disco costume
Melodrama
Starfire
80s in general
Wolfman writes himself into the story so he can sleezily marry Wonder Girl
again 80s in general

Did I miss anything?

Shame about Static Shock I hope they come up with a new decent creative team rather than canning it altogether.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 15, 2011)

Charcan said:


> Huh I don't even know what Static is. If it's that black kid with super powers then pity.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2011)

Black Titan said:


> I don't even want to go anywhere near that shitty piece of work rebooted story.



Static didn't really get rebooted at all, all his older stories seemed to be in continuity. Well thats what I heard, and got the impression of from the first book, cus I didn't read the old stuff.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 15, 2011)

Why John Rozum ?


----------



## Bender (Sep 15, 2011)




----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Perez
> Green Speedos
> Disco costume
> Melodrama
> ...



It's Perez why I can forgive a lot of its outdatedness, actually. Perez himself is kind of a relic now but I still like him.

Now Terry Long, no one sane's ever gonna defend that.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

Static takes the plunge?

Damn you TPN...damn your vindication.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 15, 2011)

'Twas one series of which no one expected anything and if a good replacement is announced no one will care.

Hell, if the first issues suck and the replacements are good this will be seen as a good thing.


----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> 'Twas one series of which no one expected anything and if a good replacement is announced no one will care.
> 
> Hell, if the first issues suck and the replacements are good this will be seen as a good thing.



I know...but you were talking about series getting shitcanned and well...Murphy's Law.


----------



## Glued (Sep 15, 2011)

Awe, and Static just got...disARMED


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 15, 2011)




----------



## Mael (Sep 15, 2011)

^"How...the hell did you do that?!?"

"Ah...trust me...it's really good."

I admire that enthusiasm. :33  And wow some generous reviews.

Legion of Doom better have pants in the reboot.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGQEAiZJMco&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 16, 2011)

Just got done with Mr. Terrific. So my question is, how is Bruce smarter than him again?


----------



## Gallant (Sep 16, 2011)

illmatic said:


> *John Rozum Walks Off Static Shock*
> 
> 
> 
> Read More -



But how will we know what happens to Static's arm now? What about a possible Hawkman appearance later on in the run? 

Making me really wish I didn't buy it if it indeed gets canned already. It was a good enough read at any rate.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 16, 2011)

I doubt it'll be canned already. However I'd imagine how it works when a writer leaves a title is he leaves an outline for what he had planned and the new writer writes following it. So I'd expect a drop in quality (if there was any to begin with, I didn't read SS).


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 16, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> Just got done with Mr. Terrific. So my question is, how is Bruce smarter than him again?



Because Bruce is a more important, more popular character.


----------



## Glued (Sep 16, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> Just got done with Mr. Terrific. So my question is, how is Bruce smarter than him again?



He created a faster than light vibrating bullet to take out the Flash. Yep, that would be Bruce's greatest feat. Not very impressive when compared to other Marvel Geniuses. Not unless you consider the Silver Age where he made a batplane that could fly into the sun and other silver age stuff. Honestly it even pales in comparison to T.O. Morrow who was able to look into the future using a television screen.

Luthor was able to achieve nigh omnipotence in action comics with some preparation time.

All Star Luthor created a sound-based drill using a recording of Moby Dick.


----------



## Nightblade (Sep 16, 2011)

so is Power Girl's new status in the DCnU to be Mister Terrific's fuckhole?

can't wait for the porn parody.


----------



## Glued (Sep 16, 2011)

"Just thank the black guy who saved your lives."

"Its because I'm white isn't it?"

"I'm a black woman, which means I've had to handle things you can't imagine."

Will they please...STOP TALKING ABOUT RACE!!!


----------



## Blinky (Sep 16, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> "Just thank the black guy who saved your lives."
> 
> "Its because I'm white isn't it?"
> 
> ...



Yeah I felt the same way about that :/

We get it, Mr Terrific is black.


----------



## Glued (Sep 16, 2011)

Mister Terrific is like Amodeus from Marvel.

I'm the seventh smartest, I'm the seventh smartest, I'm seventh smartest.

I'm the third smartest, I'm the third smartest, I'm the third smartest.

or like Reed Richards.

I'm the smartest, I'm the smartest, I'm the smartest.

STOP REPEATING THE SAME DAMN SHIT!!!

I'm not just going to quit Mr. Terrific, I'm going to...RAGEQUIT!!!

GIVE ME THAT ISSUE OF RED LANTERN!!!

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 16, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> "Just thank the black guy who saved your lives."
> 
> "Its because I'm white isn't it?"
> 
> ...



Exactly  .


----------



## Mael (Sep 16, 2011)

Nightblade said:


> so is Power Girl's new status in the DCnU to be Mister Terrific's fuckhole?
> 
> can't wait for the porn parody.



Rule 34. 



Ben Grimm said:


> Mister Terrific is like Amodeus from Marvel.
> 
> I'm the seventh smartest, I'm the seventh smartest, I'm seventh smartest.
> 
> ...



LolKhorneletthegalaxyburn.

Never really was a fan of that form of Mr. T (b/c B.A. Barracus is tenfold better).  I mean God even his biography screams the most Gary Stu in a world full of them.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 16, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> "Just thank the black guy who saved your lives."
> 
> "Its because I'm white isn't it?"
> 
> ...



was in case the colorist messed up and made him white!

that seemed like an oddly large amount of black people in England btw, where african brits are like 2% of the population...


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 16, 2011)

There are large Black and Asian populations in London, though.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 16, 2011)

More and more with these reboot books I am flipping through the pages and not even bothering to read what is on the pages.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 16, 2011)

Why exactly?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 16, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> There are large Black and Asian populations in London, though.



Alright then, I didn't know if that was the case or not but it stuck out.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 16, 2011)

Taleran said:


> More and more with these reboot books I am flipping through the pages and not even bothering to read what is on the pages.



As long as you read the ones that are actually decent-to-good.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 16, 2011)

So finally managed to read Mr. Terrific, the only one i haven't read yet this week.

It's decent, though like several others, the race talking and baiting got on my nerves...I don't see this book lasting to tell the truth


----------



## Mael (Sep 16, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> So finally managed to read Mr. Terrific, the only one i haven't read yet this week.
> 
> It's decent, though like several others, the race talking and baiting got on my nerves...I don't see this book lasting to tell the truth



Makes me miss John Stewart.  Honestly I was just plain annoyed.  Did someone invite Spike Lee to script (slight sarcasm there)?


----------



## Taleran (Sep 16, 2011)

Paul Cornell I thought you had the chops for Rhyming Etrigan now I am incredibly disappointed.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 16, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Why exactly?



If something doesn't grab me on an art level I don't really care about the writing at this point.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 16, 2011)

With him around constantly though always rhyming would probably get old fast. 

Supposedly he's going to rhyme sometimes, for big moments or something. A jason/etrigan love triangle is pretty clever though, you gotta admit.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 16, 2011)

Taleran said:


> If something doesn't grab me on an art level I don't really care about the writing at this point.



THIS.  I'm sorry but big names does not get me to buy the book.  I look at it as an investment I want to pass on to friends.  And I sure as hell don't want to pass on shitty art because that's the first thing they'll see.

I mean I loved WWH but man I just do not like JRJR art.  That's just me though.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 16, 2011)

Oh god the title of this issue.



Also HOLY SHIT



> Paul Levitz: Now that fans have seen how beautiful Francis' work is, and how obviously hard he's working on the series, I can reassure them that we're staying on schedule with some carefully picked and planned guest artist issue--*starting with Walt Simonson on #5. *


----------



## Mael (Sep 16, 2011)

^Oh wow...Mr. 1980s Haxtur winner himself.

Talk about a nice little retro.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 16, 2011)

Taleran said:


> If something doesn't grab me on an art level I don't really care about the writing at this point.





Shadow said:


> THIS.  I'm sorry but big names does not get me to buy the book.  I look at it as an investment I want to pass on to friends.  And I sure as hell don't want to pass on shitty art because that's the first thing they'll see.
> 
> I mean I loved WWH but man I just do not like JRJR art.  That's just me though.



Huh.

It's always been the opposite for me; I don't really give a shit as long as the art isn't eye-wateringly bad, but if I'm not feeling the writing I instantly drop and save money. (Or drop and save bandwidth )


----------



## Taleran (Sep 16, 2011)

Comics are a visual medium you are doing it backwards I suggest you take up reading books.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 16, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Huh.
> 
> It's always been the opposite for me; I don't really give a shit as long as the art isn't eye-wateringly bad, but if I'm not feeling the writing I instantly drop and save money. (Or drop and save bandwidth )



Same here, so long as the story and pacing and characterization is good, I can ignore the artwork. Good art is fine and dandy but when I buy a comic I buy it for the writing.

Edit: yes Comics are visual medium, but that doesn't mean you should excuse the writing and only look at the art. they're both issues, but if you feel art is more importent than story, than more power to you I suppose, and I guess it comes down to personal preference.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 16, 2011)

Obviously but the book is more likely to get me in the door with the pictures. Also after a while reading comics the number of interesting ways the stories can be told through the writing thins out while the number of ways the stories can be told interestingly through the art are ever expanding.


----------



## Mael (Sep 16, 2011)

Not to pull a weeaboo, One Piece to me is an anatomical train wreck yet I'll acknowledge that over time I finally credited the decent writing.

Same goes for these comics.  You might not like visuals at all, Frank Miller e.g., but I liked the way he presented plot.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 16, 2011)

Anatomical accuracy isn't even in my stratosphere when considering comic art. Especially in stories that don't take place in anything that could be considering the real world.

That is why Oda works and people like Romita Jr

Interior Consistency of the art is more important.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 16, 2011)

Mael said:


> Not to pull a weeaboo, One Piece to me is an anatomical train wreck yet I'll acknowledge that over time I finally credited the decent writing.



Liking a manga doesn't make you a weeaboo  



> Anatomical accuracy isn't even in my stratosphere when considering comic art. Especially in stories that don't take place in anything that could be considering the real world.



Yeah same here. I don't care if the people look realistic.


----------



## Mael (Sep 16, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Liking a manga doesn't make you a weeaboo
> 
> Yeah same here. I don't care if the people look realistic.



It was more the mentioning of Japanese style in an American comics thread.  More a safeguard statement than anything else but I knew that distinction in actuality.

See that's my pet peeve.  I just feel some things are too spindly or flat-faced or just not right and therefore I get detracted.  Call it superficial, but that's just how I feel.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 16, 2011)

Except Jason's lip helmet


----------



## Mael (Sep 16, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Except Jason's lip helmet



Really, artist?  Lip helmet?

I mean...why?

But dat art and dat Starfire.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 17, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> "Just thank the black guy who saved your lives."
> 
> "Its because I'm white isn't it?"
> 
> ...



The overdone race stereotypes are going to kill it early on so I hope I won't be seeing much of that going forward. Those lines really did make me cringe and the book would be fine without them.



Ben Grimm said:


> Mister Terrific is like Amodeus from Marvel.
> 
> I'm the seventh smartest, I'm the seventh smartest, I'm seventh smartest.
> 
> ...



I agree with you only I'm going to stick with it...at least for now. Also the need to constantly state that he is the world's third smartest man was like having to hear about The Sentry and his "power of one million exploding suns". Or at least that was the similar effect it had on me. *gags*



gabzilla said:


> Except Jason's lip helmet



I like what I'm seeing here.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 17, 2011)

Actually I really do dig this art, I may just check this out


----------



## Platinum (Sep 17, 2011)

Holy shit that artwork .


----------



## Taleran (Sep 17, 2011)

I just realized how ridiculous it was suggest a re-cap page for a first issue was. I guess that speaks to how sloppy a lot of the introduction was on these comics so far.


----------



## Mael (Sep 17, 2011)

Jason's lip helmet reminded me of this:


----------



## mali (Sep 17, 2011)

Read JLI, Gold Booster=Douchey pawn.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 17, 2011)

Booster Gold rules


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 17, 2011)

Until Flashpoint happened.

Now I'm going to have to like him all over again.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 17, 2011)

So what do you guys think of the rumor that the red haired scientist in Superboy is Caitlin Fairchild?


----------



## Glued (Sep 17, 2011)

About Justice League International. I don't get Red Rocket and August General in Iron always taking cheap shots at eachother. I thought Russia and China were allies. Also August General in Iron said that Chinese planes were superior to Russian planes on the battlefield, is this true?


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 17, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Until Flashpoint happened.
> 
> Now I'm going to have to like him all over again.



Booster is still hilarious pre-character development. He should get a similar character arc anyways.


----------



## mali (Sep 17, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> About Justice League International. I don't get Red Rocket and August General in Iron always taking cheap shots at eachother. I thought Russia and China were allies. Also August General in Iron said that Chinese planes were superior to Russian planes on the battlefield, is this true?



Augaust General said the Chinese had better AVIATERS not the planes.

And Godiva so wants to screw Booster Gold.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 17, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> So what do you guys think of the rumor that the red haired scientist in Superboy is Caitlin Fairchild?



Because she has red-hair? 

Was CF ever a scientist?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 17, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Because she has red-hair?
> 
> Was CF ever a scientist?



I think it has more than that, several people on CBR seem to think it's her though. Caitlin was the brainy one of the Gen 13 bunch anyways.

it will probably turn out to be a new character though.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 17, 2011)

because bleeding cool ran an article saying it was her.

I have no idea who she is btw.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 17, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> because bleeding cool ran an article saying it was her.
> 
> I have no idea who she is btw.



Oh is that what happened? I don't usually pay attention to Bleeding Cool. 

She's a Wildstorm character, and the protagonist of the Gen 13 books.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 17, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> About Justice League International. I don't get Red Rocket and August General in Iron always taking cheap shots at eachother. I thought Russia and China were allies. Also August General in Iron said that Chinese planes were superior to Russian planes on the battlefield, is this true?



Not really, things are kind of tense there and both countries have high opinions of themselves.

And Russia's planes are quite a bit better still.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 17, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> About Justice League International. I don't get Red Rocket and August General in Iron always taking cheap shots at eachother. I thought Russia and China were allies. Also August General in Iron said that Chinese planes were superior to Russian planes on the battlefield, is this true?



The Russians and Chinese have never been particularly friendly. While we might observe them as "allies" in the sense that they might be together in aligning against certain American interests, there is  a long history of bitterness between the two countries. The Russo-Japanese War was essentially the Chinese playing on the desires of the two countries to invade Manchuria, as well as the fact that Chinese and Russian Communists were very hostile towards each other. In fact, the Russians and Chinese were closer to a ground war with each other than the Americans and Russians ever got.

As to the cock-measuring contest, it feels kind of forced. While I'd generally side with the Russians in terms of jet technology (The Russians are further along in their 5th Generation Fighter work), it comes off a bit weird. Of course, this could be a reference to the fact that stripped-down international production models of Russian equipment may be worse (though the Chinese have been pretty self-sufficient when it comes to new equipment), or maybe the idea that Immortal-Man-In-Darkness as the peak of Chinese equipment. Dunno.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 17, 2011)

Just call it what it is, Jurgen's writing was complete shit.


----------



## Mael (Sep 17, 2011)

IRL, the SCO is a flimsy organization since Russians and Chinese not only played off each other in the Cold War (and the US playing off them both), but as everyone else just said each are looking out for #1.  The age of idealistic communism across the board is well over.  That and militarily speaking the Russians have far better tech.  After all, who do you think the Chinese second-hand?

JL Intl?  Eh...didn't interest me as much as the original group.


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Sep 17, 2011)

Detective Comics was

Action Comics.

Batwoman was

Batman and Robin(no Dickbats damn it)


----------



## mali (Sep 18, 2011)

Read Batman and Robin.

Robin seriously needs to get friends his age, hes turning into a emotionless little runt.


----------



## Glued (Sep 18, 2011)

Like Father
Like Son


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

Mali said:


> Read Batman and Robin.
> 
> Robin seriously needs to get friends his age, hes turning into a emotionless little runt.



So like Batman, but a kid?


----------



## Glued (Sep 18, 2011)

Damian is da flesh and blood grandson of Raz al Ghul.

That little gremlin is EVIL!!!

Bruce needs to lock that creature in cage, away from innocents.


----------



## Penance (Sep 18, 2011)

Bring on MOAR Resurrection Man...


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 18, 2011)

Mali said:


> Read Batman and Robin.
> 
> Robin seriously needs to get friends his age, hes turning into a emotionless little runt.



He had one pre reboot. And he had Dick and Steph. Now...

In other news


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 18, 2011)

^

So cold resistance is a confirmed ability of Starfire now?


----------



## Glued (Sep 18, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> ^
> 
> So cold resistance is a confirmed ability of Starfire now?



dude she flies through the void of space itself


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

Starfire, ensuring that no corner of her skin goes unexposed. 

But yeah, fantastic look whereas Jason and Arsenal are merely on the side.  That's some damn good artwork.


----------



## mali (Sep 18, 2011)

Ressurection Man was beast.

Sinestro being a boss in GL and Hal being somewhat of a douche,seriously, why would you ask a chick that on a dinner date.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2011)

Not really worrying about turning off new readers with being too whacky early on are they?


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 18, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> ^
> 
> So cold resistance is a confirmed ability of Starfire now?



It's always been part of her superpowers 



Petes12 said:


> Not really worrying about turning off new readers with being too whacky early on are they?



I'll take wacky over the grimdark bollocks.



I see they are not even gonna be subtle about the inevitable Nightwing/Batgirl.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 18, 2011)

Dat Starfire. 

I'm definitely making sure I get that book when it comes out.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 18, 2011)

Gallant said:


> Dat Starfire.
> 
> I'm definitely making sure I get that book when it comes out.



Good


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 18, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> *I'll take wacky over the grimdark bollocks.*
> 
> 
> 
> I see they are not even gonna be subtle about the inevitable Nightwing/Batgirl.



Agreed.


----------



## mali (Sep 18, 2011)

Joker is one messed up villian, the face transplant......


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

I'll take the wacky for American comics.  Grimdark goes to mah Warhams.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 18, 2011)

Hope Dick/Babs is being set up so it can be knocked down, shit is old 



			
				Gabzilla said:
			
		

> He had one pre reboot. And he had Dick and Steph. Now...



Alas, according to Gail most of the other writers at DC don't seem to have read BQM's Batgirl. Unless the guys writing B&R says he's read it he probably doesn't know they're friends ?___?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> It's always been part of her superpowers
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just meant new readers usually prefer stuff a bit more grounded, like Ultimate Marvel style.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 18, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I'll take wacky over the grimdark bollocks.



I will take quality books first, tone second


----------



## Glued (Sep 18, 2011)

Sometimes grimdark can be wacky.

For example, Cannibal Amazons from Space.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 18, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Hope Dick/Babs is being set up so it can be knocked down, shit is old
> 
> 
> 
> Alas, according to Gail most of the other writers at DC don't seem to have read BQM's Batgirl. Unless the guys writing B&R says he's read it he probably doesn't know they're friends ?___?



Pft, I doubt it. They are gonna milk that cow for all its worth.

Damian's friend Colin only appeared in Streets of Gotham, they probably never read that either.



Petes12 said:


> I just meant new readers usually prefer stuff a bit *more grounded*, like Ultimate Marvel style.



Ultimate Marvel was grounded?



Taleran said:


> I will take quality books first, tone second



Detective Comics was so quality, man.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 18, 2011)

I bet the guy writing Damian read Street of Gotham unless he's a complete Beecham. That said poor old Colin is so minor a character I wouldn't cross my fingers.

My bet is the it'll e the same characters as ever: Dick, Tim, Selina and maybe Babs and Jason.

No Steph, no Cass, no Colin.

And I really hope someone proves me wrong and posts a cover for issue #4 that has Abuse on the front.


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 18, 2011)

Using the DC reboot to leap from tpbs to comics.

My poor bank balance.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 18, 2011)

ultimates was pretty grounded

with the notable exception of ultimates three


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Sep 18, 2011)

Not sure if this was posted already, but Bedard interview on New Guardians and some other things, mostly GL-related.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 18, 2011)

Colin was so awesome. 



Lucaniel said:


> ultimates was pretty grounded
> 
> with the notable exception of ultimates three



Ah yes.


----------



## mali (Sep 18, 2011)

Holy crap thats disgusting.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 18, 2011)

Mali said:


> Holy crap thats disgusting.



That's Ultimatum for you

That scene had me convinced Ultimate Blob had died sometime before Ultimates 3 and had been replaced by a completely seperate character

fucking Loeb


----------



## Glued (Sep 18, 2011)

"Tastes like chicken."

Gives new meaning to women in refrigerators.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Sep 18, 2011)

**


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Pft, I doubt it. They are gonna milk that cow for all its worth.
> 
> Damian's friend Colin only appeared in Streets of Gotham, they probably never read that either.
> 
> ...


compared to normal marvel yeah. 

and Tomasi, the writer on batman and robin, was the batman editor for a while. I wouldn't be surprised if he's reading the other books. That said I don't really think he's concerned with showing Damian making friends, at least not for now. Obviously it's going to be a very father/son focused book.


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> *Colin was so awesome.*



You're God damn right I was, Gabriella.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 18, 2011)

I'm sorry, you are nowhere near as awesome as Colin Wilkes. 



Petes12 said:


> compared to normal marvel yeah.
> 
> and Tomasi, the writer on batman and robin, was the batman editor for a while. I wouldn't be surprised if he's reading the other books. That said I don't really think he's concerned with showing Damian making friends, at least not for now. Obviously it's going to be a very father/son focused book.



Yeaaah, I don't see the Blob munching on Wasp as grounded. Maybe it's just me.

So Damian will only interact with Bruce? That's gonna get old fast.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2011)

pre-Loeb Ultimate Marvel.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 18, 2011)

Now that's cheating.


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I'm sorry, you are nowhere near as awesome as Colin Wilkes.







He's a junkie thanks to Scarecrow.  My strength is all natural. 

But I did enjoy seeing his justice to Zsasz.



> So Damian will only interact with Bruce? That's gonna get old fast.



Lame.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Now that's cheating.



I'm allowed to choose what my own example of grounded is 

also even if Tomasi knows about Colin and likes Colin, bringing him back for the new DCU is kind of a bad idea. They need to be keeping it accessible. Make a new character to be friends with Damian. Someone who doesn't wear giant knuckles with words on them.


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I'm allowed to choose what my own example of grounded is
> 
> also even if Tomasi knows about Colin and likes Colin, bringing him back for the new DCU is kind of a bad idea. They need to be keeping it accessible. Make a new character to be friends with Damian. Someone who doesn't wear giant knuckles with words on them.





Colin is always a good thing.  I couldn't give two shits about Damien if he's going to continue his stuffy ways.  He has issues?  Colin in for the regulation.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 18, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> So Damian will only interact with Bruce? That's gonna get old fast.



It'll only be the first issues and you need to set up the premise and not have Dick come in and steal the show. Same reason Cass wasn't in Batgirl V3.

This series will likely run on a while and more characters will get involved later.

Anyway, you liked the first Batman and Robin and that was just Dick, Damian and Alfred. This is the same, only Bruce got swapped in.


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> It'll only be the first issues and you need to set up the premise and not have Dick come in and steal the show. Same reason Cass wasn't in Batgirl V3.
> 
> This series will likely run on a while and more characters will get involved later.
> 
> Anyway, you liked the first Batman and Robin and that was just Dick, Damian and Alfred. This is the same, only Bruce got swapped in.



Well at least it's temporary.  But you'll need to define "a while."

Time wasted in idleness increases the chance of disappointment.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 18, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I'm allowed to choose what my own example of grounded is
> 
> also even if Tomasi knows about Colin and likes Colin, bringing him back for the new DCU is kind of a bad idea. They need to be keeping it accessible. Make a new character to be friends with Damian. Someone who doesn't wear giant knuckles with words on them.



That's silly. You have a perfectly good character in Colin and is not like he has 70 years of history that needs to be explained. You can do it in three panels: Kidnapped and experimented on by Scarecrow, can turn into Polite Hulk, teamed up with Robin and they are friends. The end.

It's like new readers are stupid or something.



The Pink Ninja said:


> It'll only be the first issues and you need to set up the premise and not have Dick come in and steal the show. Same reason Cass wasn't in Batgirl V3.
> 
> This series will likely run on a while and more characters will get involved later.
> 
> Anyway, you liked the first Batman and Robin and that was just Dick, Damian and Alfred. *This is the same,* only Bruce got swapped in.



Cass is different. She was the Batgirl Steph was replacing. Colin is a secondary character.

Well yeah, that's the point. It just feels like I've seen this before. Batman must teach Robin how to be a real boy. Again.


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Cass is different. She was the Batgirl Steph was replacing. Colin is a secondary character.
> 
> Well yeah, that's the point. It just feels like I've seen this before. Batman must teach Robin how to be a real boy. Again.



As you've clearly displayed before though, Cass was either shafted or sidelined.  Colin is indeed a secondary ().  But she's sort of a special case where it's the Batgirl and not the Robin.  Robins, as we've been seeing, seem to >>> Batgirls, almost to a tragic fault.  

Batman teaching again?  Why do I have this gut feeling it won't work on the brat?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2011)

It's not that they're stupid its that you don't want to give them the impression that they've already missed part of the story.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2011)

also 





gabzilla said:


> Well yeah, that's the point. It just feels like I've seen this before. Batman must teach Robin how to be a real boy. Again.



I don't think their relationship is all that similar. Because while Dick was accepting and gently guiding Damian, Bruce is more trying to force Damian to be what Bruce wants, while Damian just wants his dad to like him as he is, right?

That you could make a case that it's Bruce who needs to change at least as much as Damian makes it different.


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

I smell the al-Guhl in Damian's douche. 

Look we're going to get some weird dynamics.  The only thing I'm hoping not to see is some troperific cliche with Bruce and Damian.  With the Batgirls?  Don't feel anything coming soon, really.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 18, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> It's not that they're stupid its that you don't want to give them the impression that they've already missed part of the story.



Yeah, I'd buy that if they weren't keeping most things in continuity. Wouldn't Killing Joke confuse readers? Heck, wouldn't Damian himself do that too?



Petes12 said:


> also
> 
> I don't think their relationship is all that similar. Because while Dick was accepting and gently guiding Damian, Bruce is more trying to force Damian to be what Bruce wants, while Damian just wants his dad to like him as he is, right?
> 
> That you could make a case that it's Bruce who needs to change at least as much as Damian makes it different.



I didn't say they were similar. I said I've seen this plot before. At least when it comes to Damian. I can buy his reaction... but only for a few issues. If this is going to be Daddy Issues Batman Style for more than an arc, I can see it getting old fast. At least for me.


----------



## Glued (Sep 18, 2011)

Abuse and rebooted OMAC: Hulk wannabes.

If DC wants a Hulk so bad, they could use Orion. Father issues and the whole INFINITE RAGE thing.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2011)

There's a balance to be struck. I think Morrison's stuff is worth keeping around, and making readers want to go back and read his Batman and Robin isn't a bad thing anyway.

On the other hand, making them want to go back and read average stories in streets of gotham? If they can even find out where Colin first showed up on the internet?


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

Daddy issues Batman's going to get old for me from the get-go.  Honestly that's not what I'm looking for and will fucking petition to get the Batgirls back and make it a PBG and Batman instead of the little runt.

Yes, I'm biased.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2011)

PBG? 

it's all about execution. I'll at least give it a shot if only because of gleason but I'm betting the real developments will be in leviathan


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> PBG?
> 
> it's all about execution. I'll at least give it a shot if only because of gleason but I'm betting the real developments will be in leviathan



PowerBat Girls. 

Execution eh?  Yeah...call me a cynic but...


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2011)

but you'll complain about comics before they've come out?


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> but you'll complain about comics before they've come out?



It's called anticipating, and I'm anticipating a questionable execution for Damian.  I can't say how Steph and Cass will ever turn out although I'm more optimistic for them.  That and I'm just not really a fan of Damian Wayne.  Call me old schooled but I was perfectly accustomed to my Greyson, Todd, and Drake before this little runt came along.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2011)

Well as I'm sure Gab will remind you they're all still around too


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Well as I'm sure Gab will remind you they're all still around too



She doesn't need to because I know.  I'm in legion with her though when it comes to them.  Got a raw deal here and there, but show ten times the personality lil' Bruce is going to.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2011)

Does gab dislike him too? I like all the Robins except Jason. Who's alright as a bad guy but otherwise not someone I care for.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 18, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Does gab dislike him too? I like all the Robins except Jason. Who's alright as a bad guy but otherwise not someone I care for.



Who? Bruce? I like him when he doesn't overdo the Batdickery.

Btas Bruce and Young Justice Bruce > grimdark Bruce

If you are talking about Damian, I liked him after he grew a heart, especially when he interacted with people like Dick, Colin, Kara or Steph. He's still an ass, but there's hope for him. I hated his guts when he was introduced.



Petes12 said:


> Well as I'm sure Gab will remind you they're all still around too


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Who? Bruce? I like him when he doesn't overdo the Batdickery.
> 
> Btas Bruce and Young Justice Bruce > grimdark Bruce
> 
> If you are talking about Damian, I liked him when he interacts with people like Dick, Colin, Kara or Steph. He's still an ass, but there's hope for him.



On his own Damian is one of my least fave characters.  I believe in some inevitable evolution, but until then...I just don't wanna see that scowl and "I'll kill you" look ad infinitum.



>



Heresy begets retribution, Gabz.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2011)

I don't think anyone liked him when he was first introduced. That was on purpose.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 18, 2011)

Yeah, I'm just surprised they managed to turn it around.


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

I remain mostly on point with my judgment. 

Of course changes CAN be made.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2011)

Who the heck is 'the Ray'? Because whoever he is he's getting a miniseries I guess. 

And yeah, Damian in Batman and Robin was a huge turnaround. I didn't like him or want him replacing Tim til I read that.


----------



## Mael (Sep 18, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Who the heck is 'the Ray'? Because whoever he is he's getting a miniseries I guess.
> 
> And yeah, Damian in Batman and Robin was a huge turnaround. I didn't like him or want him replacing Tim til I read that.





New guy named Lucien Gates too.


----------



## Slice (Sep 19, 2011)

I was really excited to read as many of the reboot books and now i am drowning in work and so far i only read JL#1.
I hate this


----------



## Mael (Sep 19, 2011)

Slice said:


> I was really excited to read as many of the reboot books and now i am drowning in work and so far i only read JL#1.
> I hate this



Welcome to my world where I've been only able to look at the Batman comics, JL, Batman related, and I think that's it.

Damn you job and LSAT.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 19, 2011)

I prefer Bruce to be standoffish and kind of a dick most of the time because it makes the times when he's nice more special.


----------



## Mael (Sep 19, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I prefer Bruce to be standoffish and kind of a dick most of the time because it makes the times when he's nice more special.



There's a difference though.  He needs to have a purpose behind it, otherwise I could easily relate him as a grown-up Damian.  When coaching the Robins and Batgirls he for the most part had done that, especially when he trained Cassandra.  There were times even in his animated form that the way he was crawled under my skin.  But hey, I never looked at Bruce to be wacky.  That's where Wally West came in.  Don't get me wrong.  I like Bruce being Bruce.  What I need is a good dynamic with it.  Hopefully the new comics will do that.

As for grimdark?  I think we need to define that term, because Batman's whole premise as a vigilante w/o killing (because killing is what The Punisher and Venom are for, Red Hood doing his best) is all about grim and harsh interlaced with moments of sincerity and even humor here and there (see Alfred, Selina Kyle, etc.).  He was always meant to be no nonsense no matter how many people wanted him to actually brighten up (this includes those Diana Bruce shippers).  But I won't go so far to say it's grimdark.  Grimdark, from the source itself and you know where I'm talking about, means wholly unforgiving, nasty, brutish, Rousseau, and just utterly fucked up where unholy terrors seek to violate every orifice in your body while you're still alive.  In my opinion, Batman has the potential but falls short due to his outright humanity.  He doesn't live on Apokilips.  That's why I can't completely classify even the darkest of the Dark Knight as grimdark.  That and I wouldn't want it.  If I wanted grimdark Bats I'd call him *Konrad Curze* and grant him the Night Lords.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 19, 2011)

So between Superboy being solid and the preview for Red Hood looking awesome im actually getting my hopes up for a well written Teen Titans comic.

Yes, I know im asking to get my hopes dashed.


----------



## mali (Sep 19, 2011)

Green Lantern looks pretty dope by the looks of things.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So between Superboy being solid and the preview for Red Hood looking awesome im actually getting my hopes up for a well written Teen Titans comic.
> 
> Yes, I know im asking to get my hopes dashed.



Yeah  that's a mistake. I mean, I agree it's possible it'll be pretty decent and I'm more optimistic about it, but you still want to keep your hopes as low as possible! 

Here, let me fix that problem for you 



that's right, the pink costume wasn't enough! He also needs a pink shirt! Congrats you are properly skeptical again.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 19, 2011)

Ha I think that's everyone's reaction to his costume. 

"HMM PINK AND PURPLE ARE GAY COLOURS... I JUST GOT AN IDEA FOR HIS COSTUME!!"


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 19, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Yeah  that's a mistake. I mean, I agree it's possible it'll be pretty decent and I'm more optimistic about it, but you still want to keep your hopes as low as possible!
> 
> Here, let me fix that problem for you
> 
> ...



Ha god dammit. Although his pink shirt has been changed to blue, since it was a bit much apparently.

But yea, back to skeptical.  I like the idea of a more flamboyant gay character, since its not like they only exist as stereotypes, I just hope they didnt go overboard. 

The purple costume is...not reassuring though.

But from what I've read the plot seems solid. With NOWHERE being an organization intent on recruiting and controlling young metahumans, and Tim being the primary thorn in their side. I'm looking forward to seeing superboy as the "bad guy" of the origin story.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 19, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Yeah  that's a mistake. I mean, I agree it's possible it'll be pretty decent and I'm more optimistic about it, but you still want to keep your hopes as low as possible!
> 
> Here, let me fix that problem for you
> 
> ...



I think he looks fabulous. If anything, he has made me interested in TT.

Also, he likes purple. That gives him extra points.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 19, 2011)

Eh it's not a bad idea really. I mean what's so wrong about him being flamboyantly gay rather than being your average hero who is gay. 

But if they have him spouting stuff like "I'll scratch your eyes out!" then that'll be the most hilarious shit ever.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 19, 2011)

Yea, as long as they keep it to realistic levels of flamboyancy it'll be fine.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 19, 2011)

I personally don't have a problem with him being gay, though I suspect if he's too flamboyent he'll start to wear on me after a while.

It's not like there that many Flamboyant gay superheroes anyways.


----------



## Penance (Sep 19, 2011)

This is the same kid that's all super geeked to be a hero, right?


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 19, 2011)

Yes. He also has a family that loves him, accepts his sexuality and is proud he's a superhero.





Oh God, they are going to make him suffer, aren't they?


----------



## Blinky (Sep 19, 2011)

He'll die first. FROM GAYNESS.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

It's not _necessarily_ bad but it is just the thing to get WW back to healthy skepticism again. Because that could so so easily go off the rails. 

I get what they mean but its just a little questionable, the decision to play right into stereotypes.


----------



## Penance (Sep 19, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Yes. He also has a family that loves him, accepts his sexuality and is proud he's a superhero.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Honestly (IF I stick with Teen Titans), I could see Bunker being one of my favorites in this book.  So naturally, YES-he'll probably suffer...

Oh, Red Robin...   *giveitachancegiveitachancegiveitachance*


----------



## Blinky (Sep 19, 2011)

Also it's pretty funny that the flamboyantly gay guy has one of the least flamboyant costumes in the team. 

Although that says more about the other costumes really. Maybe it's just me but they look so over the top and stupid. 



> I get what they mean but its just a little questionable, the decision to play right into stereotypes.



DC are EDGY now. It was annoying how often race was brought up in Mister Terrific.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 19, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Yes. He also has a family that loves him, accepts his sexuality and is proud he's a superhero.
> 
> Oh God, they are going to make him suffer, aren't they?



From what I've read it doesn't seem like they're going to stress the whole "he's gay so naturally the whole world is trying to bring him down" thing that seems to come with a lot of other gay supers.

More that they're trying to show how in younger generation's its hardly taboo anymore. So its not like he has to be all defensive about who he is.



Petes12 said:


> It's not _necessarily_ bad but it is just the thing to get WW back to healthy skepticism again. Because that could so so easily go off the rails.
> 
> I get what they mean but its just a little questionable, the decision to play right into stereotypes.



And you're absolutely right. I'm still excited for the book, but you've brought me back down from a plateau of hype I was on. Since this is one of those things that could go horribly wrong.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 19, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> From what I've read it doesn't seem like they're going to stress the whole "he's gay so naturally the whole world is trying to bring him down" thing that seems to come with a lot of other gay supers.
> 
> More that they're trying to show how in younger generation's its hardly taboo anymore. So its not like he has to be all defensive about who he is.



I know. What I meant is that DC likes to take happy characters and make them suffer


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 19, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I know. What I meant is that DC likes to take happy characters and make them suffer



Oh yea, and Im really hoping that isn't the case here. The primary failing of Teen Titans in recent years is that it was angst angst angst and not enough fun. Lobdell seems like he's aware of this, but there's always that chance I suppose.

DC does love to take happy characters (particularly happy young characters) and angst the ever living shit out of them. Hell, the YJ4 are a big example of this. Tim and everyone dying, Cass and her relation to ares, Bart's kneecapping, and Superboy's heritage are all good examples of that.

EDIT: Oh yea, Nightwing #1 looks great. Check out the preview in the Bat Inc thread.


----------



## Mael (Sep 19, 2011)

Fabuloso! 

I'm glad to see he's out of the closet instead of some drama llama crap I don't feel like reading.  It also isn't an over-enthusiastic in-your-face way of being gay.  He just...is.  Good.  I don't need to see an agenda pushed in comics and I think Booth and the rest did the identity some justice.  I just hope to not see a catchphrase every third panel.

Jesus God Gabz...let me be the grimdark one here.  If anything there's going to be one episode, maybe two, dealing with the hate, but what you and I should be seeing is him just shrugging it off and giving the proverbial finger to haters.  I may be straight, but flipping off detractors is universal.  Let's see Bunker (oh the puns ) do the same.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 19, 2011)

JT Krul Leaves Green Arrow, Stays On Captain Atom


*Spoiler*: _Effective as of issue #4_ 





> Hey everyone! Effective as of issue #4, I will no longer be writing Green Arrow. As many of you know, Oliver Queen is one of my favorite characters in the DC Universe, so this decision was not easy to make. Getting the chance to do the fall of Green Arrow and my run during Brightest Day was a dream come true, and I was excited to bring a new yet familiar take on Green Arrow in the new 52. But, I’ve been writing him for a few years now and an opportunity came up that I really wanted to tackle. I had to make a choice. In a way, my decision to leave is more a testament to how incredibly thrilled I am about Captain Atom. I don’t think I’ve been more excited about a project. Working with Freddie Williams is amazing and I really think it’s among my best work at DC to date. It was a tough call – like picking a favorite child.
> 
> I can’t talk about my new project just yet, but it perfectly exemplifies what DC is all about with the New 52 – taking the best characters in comics and presenting them in new and exciting ways. The ability to think outside the box, take chances, and tell different kinds of stories is why it’s a great time to be writing for DC Comics.
> 
> ...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 19, 2011)

Kind of annoyed at this, simply because Krul never got to write GA without some big event being involved (C4J, BD) and I really like his initial concept for nuOllie.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 19, 2011)

Dropping like flies


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

Maybe I should've given his previous series more of a chance. Giffen's the new writer, I wonder what that'll mean for the quality of the book. Not that it really has any chance of drawing me in, given I don't really like Green Arrow and REALLY don't like Jurgens' art.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Dropping like flies



Well its because he wanted to do some other project... but it is pretty bad some of the lack of stability in a few of these titles. The ridiculous art issues already with Blackhawks for example.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 19, 2011)

I didn't hear about the Blackhawks thing.


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 19, 2011)

> Much of DC's reasoning behind the relaunch is to appeal to people who aren't traditional male fanboys, and Green feels Supergirl appeals to a broader audience simply because she is a real girl in a real predicament.
> 
> "We're really excited about the opportunity to hand this book to a female reader who is into things like The Hunger Games. This is a strong character with her own point of view," says Johnson, whose new IDW Star Trek series also debuts Wednesday.
> 
> ...



hmm...


----------



## illmatic (Sep 19, 2011)

I like The Hunger Games but I don't see the similarities


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 19, 2011)

> Much of DC's reasoning behind the relaunch is to appeal to people who aren't traditional male fanboys



**


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

Does that mean they're branching out to new kinds of male fanboys? Cus I could buy that


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 19, 2011)

That would sound more honest.


----------



## Mael (Sep 19, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> That would sound more honest.



People are still afraid to call a spade a spade.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 19, 2011)

*JUSTICE LEAGUE # 1 is headed back to press again, now for a fourth printing.*

_And all 12 of the titles of this coming Wednesday?s releases from DC Comics: The New 52 have sold out from Diamond in advance of publication and are now going back to press, including BATMAN, BIRDS OF PREY, BLUE BEETLE, CAPTAIN ATOM, CATWOMAN, DC UNIVERSE PRESENTS, GREEN LANTERN CORPS, LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES, NIGHTWING, RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS, SUPERGIRL and WONDER WOMAN._


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 19, 2011)

Justice League looks evil in that cover.


----------



## Mael (Sep 19, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Justice Leagu looks evil in that cover.



More like someone woke them up from their naps.  Regardless I do like the rather sharps looks to all of them and even Aquaman's style looks badass, almost an homage to the earlier look.

But Superman does look like Darkseid took over his body.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 19, 2011)

I remember that picture lol...Wondy still looks like she's about to burst into tears because she can't make a good batman face.


----------



## Glued (Sep 19, 2011)

Superman looks unamused.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 19, 2011)

WW's face just ruins that whole cover. I dont even feel like im exaggerating when I say that...


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> WW's face just ruins that whole cover. I dont even feel like im exaggerating when I say that...



Surely you mean everyone else's face. Superman looks like he's actually FRANKENSTEIN AGENT OF SHADE except with really scary hair.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 19, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Justice Leagu looks evil in that cover.



Is that Finch? Because Finch makes people look grim by default.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 19, 2011)

And gosh yeah Superman looks awful and everybody else needs to chill out.


----------



## Mael (Sep 19, 2011)

Charcan said:


> And gosh yeah Superman looks awful and everybody else needs to chill out.



A juice and a quick nap for all of them.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 19, 2011)

All work and no play make superheroes very angry.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 19, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Surely you mean everyone else's face. Superman looks like he's actually FRANKENSTEIN AGENT OF SHADE except with really scary hair.





He does look like Frankenstein


----------



## Mael (Sep 20, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> All work and no play make superheroes very angry.



More like the Dull League...now cue the little girls. 



typhoon72 said:


> He does look like Frankenstein



Solomon Grundy.


----------



## Glued (Sep 20, 2011)

You are making Superman angry...you wouldn't like Superman if he was angry.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 20, 2011)

Charcan said:


> Is that Finch? Because Finch makes people look grim by default.



And the women like blow up dolls.


----------



## Mael (Sep 20, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> And the women like blow up dolls.



Did you see her jaw line and the Tom Brady skulls of everyone else?  Yeeeeesh.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 20, 2011)

Mael said:


> Did you see her jaw line and the Tom Brady skulls of everyone else?  Yeeeeesh.



This is nothing, did you see the Birds of Prey over?


----------



## Mael (Sep 20, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> This is nothing, did you see the Birds of Prey over?



Oh yes, Gabz. You and I discussed this and I also ran into it at the Barnes and Noble.

Batgirl is a mediocre effort at best...and the rest?  Black Canary?  



Poison Ivy looks more derp than anything else.


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 20, 2011)

They all look fine to me.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 20, 2011)

I like it. Lineart could be a little better maybe but I didn't notice any flaws until you pointed them out and the colouring is strong.


----------



## Mael (Sep 20, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> They all look fine to me.



Wonder Woman looks like she's more an emotionless prop, Superman looks like he just chilled in Apokilips, and everyone else looks like they're ready for the Eye of Terror.


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 20, 2011)

I was referring to the BoP cover.


----------



## Mael (Sep 20, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> I was referring to the BoP cover.



Ehhh...it's a bit better than the JL, but Poison Ivy looks derptacular.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 20, 2011)

Batgirl needs to pee. 

Then again, I hate Finch's style, so I'm not being objective.


----------



## Mael (Sep 20, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Batgirl needs to pee.
> 
> Then again, I hate Finch's style, so I'm not being objective.



Katana = stereotypical srs bzns Asian. 

I think it's more the posing than the actual artistic talent.  Finch needs to work on this.  All the fancypants art/coloring in the world is for naught when you're trying to convey power but instead garner snickers.

See?


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 20, 2011)

Google some of his artwork and you'll know what I mean


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 20, 2011)

He needs to work on his ability to draw more than one emotion more than anything. Everyone looks like Zoolander


----------



## Mael (Sep 20, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Google some of his artwork and you'll know what I mean



Oh you mean like this little gem?



If there was anything he's trying to convey...it's grimdark.  But he does it overkill.  If anyone thought Adrian Smith was bad...this guy seems worse.  Stop with the shadowing and stop with the faces that look so anatomically jagged a small animal could get impaled on them.  Might as well throw some spikes on them and call them the Alpha Legion.

And wrinkles...stop with the damn wrinkles.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 20, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> He needs to work on his ability to draw more than one emotion more than anything. Everyone looks like Zoolander



 That's pretty accurate


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 20, 2011)

Honestly, I think Finch is a pretty good artist overall. Its just his faces and covers for the most part. For example, Batman: The Return he did a pretty damn good job drawing it.

The dude looks like Voldemort though.


----------



## Mael (Sep 20, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> Honestly, I think Finch is a pretty good artist overall. Its just his faces and covers for the most part. For example, Batman: The Return he did a pretty damn good job drawing it.
> 
> *The dude looks like Voldemort though*.





But yeah, Finch looks like he's trying too hard though with the monotone look of pissed off.  Petes had it right...it's like Zoolander but everyone looks like someone slapped their slice of cake out of their hands.


----------



## Glued (Sep 20, 2011)

Tomorrow, The Savage Hawkman comes out. BRUTALITY HAS A NEW NAME!!!

This is gonna be awesome, like wolverine with an axe.

Blood for the Blood God, Blood for the Blood God, Blood for the Blood God.

More sacrifices, more death, more GLORIOUS CARNAGE!!!

Hawkman's new suit looks freakin badass.

They should make him more badass than he was before


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 20, 2011)

Hawkman's nextweek Ben.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 20, 2011)

I feel bad for Ben, he just wants that book and it keeps getting delayed (for him)


----------



## Cromer (Sep 20, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Tomorrow, The Savage Hawkman comes out. BRUTALITY HAS A NEW NAME!!!
> 
> This is gonna be awesome, like wolverine with an axe.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, my comrade, we aren't going to get X-TREEEEEEEEEMEEE GOREEEEEEEEEEEE!!! till next week.


----------



## Glued (Sep 20, 2011)

WHAT ANOTHER WEEK!!!

RAGE!!!!


----------



## Cromer (Sep 20, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> WHAT ANOTHER WEEK!!!
> 
> RAGE!!!!



Look at it this way, the anticipation makes the inevitable gorefest all the sweeter...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 20, 2011)

Is there a preview for Hawkman or are we just hoping the title is as gruesomely fantastic as the title and cover look?

EDIT: Because I just realized my hype for this book is based solely around the title, character design, and Ben Grimm's repeated use of the phrase "Blood for the blood god!".


----------



## Blinky (Sep 20, 2011)

It's the fact it has the tagline BRUTALITY HAS A NEW NAME 

That translates to me as something potentially hilarious


----------



## Glued (Sep 20, 2011)

Well he also got hyped in Static. The villains they were afraid that other superheroes might come now that Static was around.

One of them with a piranah head mentions Hawkman by name and was terrified that Hawkman might come to New York.

He's not even in the book and the villains are afraid of him.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 20, 2011)

Why dont the villains just quit then?


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 20, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> Why dont the villains just quit then?



Punks are probably feeling lucky.


----------



## Glued (Sep 20, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> Why dont the villains just quit then?



Because the area they operate in didn't even have a superhero until Static came along.

Marvel New York is far superior.

The Fantastic Four, Heroes for Hire, Spider-man, and the Avengers all protect New York.

Detective Comics New York is severely unprotected.


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 20, 2011)

Hawkman is the new Batman.


----------



## Penance (Sep 20, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Hawkman is the new Batman.



And Batman is the new Ra's Al Ghul...


----------



## Glued (Sep 20, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Hawkman is the new Batman.



Hawkman isn't that smart. He'll attack Black Adam by himself.

In this situation, Batman would have come prepared.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 20, 2011)

Did Hawkman get Black Adam in a scissors hold and doink him on the head with his morningstar ?


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 20, 2011)

Is that a 52 tie-in or something?


----------



## Gallant (Sep 20, 2011)

I admit, I only got interested in reading the new Hawkman because of Ben Grimm's post in this thread and out of all heroes he got brought up in the Static book. I got a good laugh when I saw that. 



Ben Grimm said:


> Because the area they operate in didn't even have a superhero until Static came along.
> 
> Marvel New York is far *over saturated*.
> 
> ...



Fiiiixxxxxeeeeedddddd. Sorry, it is probably minor but that is one thing that bugs the living crap out of me about Marvel.

In comparison I was utterly shocked about New York being relatively hero-free  in DC.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 20, 2011)

_A few weeks ago, the writer of Superboy, Red Hood and the Outlaws and Teen Titans asked for questions from the Comic Vine Community. He didn't realize how quickly you guys would jump at the chance to get your questions answered._


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 20, 2011)

illmatic said:


> _A few weeks ago, the writer of Superboy, Red Hood and the Outlaws and Teen Titans asked for questions from the Comic Vine Community. He didn't realize how quickly you guys would jump at the chance to get your questions answered._



So Wonder Gir's the tank of Teen Titans not Superboy...that
s kinda an odd choice...also lol at Wonder Girl being Spock


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 21, 2011)

I'm going to need a lot of popcorn tomorrow


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I'm going to need a lot of popcorn tomorrow





That big enough?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 21, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Because the area they operate in didn't even have a superhero until Static came along.
> 
> Marvel New York is far superior.
> 
> ...



Even more than that, there's tons of independant and minor heroes like the Young Allies.



Gallant said:


> Fiiiixxxxxeeeeedddddd. Sorry, it is probably minor but that is one thing that bugs the living crap out of me about Marvel.
> 
> In comparison I was utterly shocked about New York being relatively hero-free  in DC.



Yeah, NY in Marvel is waaaaay too crowded. Everything happens there and it gets old.

Gotham is a little crowded too but on the otherhand all the heroes there are low powered street level types (Crossovers excluded). It's the best fictional city I can think of after Anhk-Morpork.

I prefer DC fictional cities to Marvel's NY myself although for some series real cities maybe better.


----------



## Glued (Sep 21, 2011)

Gotham has Alan Scott and da Spectre, before the reboot.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I prefer DC fictional cities to Marvel's NY myself although for some series real cities maybe better.



Yes and no.  Now in the reboot I assume that everything is as it was with cities and the like.  What made me confused as a kid was how Gotham, Keystone, and Metropolis existed and then actual cities like Tokyo, Rio, Seoul, Berlin, etc.

Marvel at the least kept it consistent.  But in my opinion, I liked how the DC cities were shaped at the least and how the fictional cities went well with each character, like the Flash and Keystone, almost synonymous in appearance and "personality."


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 21, 2011)

Between Outlaws and Catwoman, I'm gonna need a bigger bag of popcorn.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Between Outlaws and Catwoman, I'm gonna need a bigger bag of popcorn.



BEHOLD! 

*Spoiler*: __ 







Upon completion, Gabs will truly become Gabzilla.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 21, 2011)

That should be enough for today.

Now what I want to know is which one is going to cause more controversy.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> That should be enough for today.
> 
> Now what I want to know is which one is going to cause more controversy.



It's over 53 cubic meters.  Jesus God, woman, you're insatiable. 

My money's on Catwoman.  The apparently costume change is already a warning sign of losing fans and then there was the attempt of glory in _The Dark Knight Rises_.



> Meet Catwoman. She’s addicted to the night. Addicted to shiny objects. Addicted to Batman. Most of all, Catwoman is addicted to danger. She can’t help herself, and the truth is – she doesn’t want to. She’s good at being bad, and very bad at being good. Find out more about what makes Catwoman tick in CATWOMAN #1, written by Judd Winick and illustrated by Guillem March.



Promising...but I'm feeling that lusty sex symbol without the truly proper development I'm looking for in a female.  The origin/backstory of Selina also took a massive hit and again my money's on the thought that DC hasn't learned.  Artwork and aesthetics might just prove me right.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 21, 2011)

Mael said:


> It's over 53 cubic meters.  Jesus God, woman, you're insatiable.
> 
> My money's on Catwoman.  The apparently costume change is already a warning sign of losing fans and then there was the attempt of glory in _The Dark Knight Rises_.
> 
> ...



Pft, that's nothing. Here's an early review:


*Spoiler*: __ 





> Oh dear, oh dear . . . Selina begins the issue in her underwear, gets a job bartending at what amounts to a gangster's orgy then flashes her breasts to get the attention of a mobster whom she then duly beats to pieces. Then she gets home to find Batman waiting - and here, bizarrely, it is established that neither of them know each other's secret identities - and they do it on the floor with their costumes on, in possibly the most explicit sex scene I've ever seen in a superhero comic. Yes, even worse than that Black Canary page in ASBAR! And to top it off, Selina likes to point out that 'it doesn't last long'. I'm not making this up.
> 
> So what was all that talk from DC of strong female characters and an end to sexism? March's T & A art is the worst kind of puerile fantasy, and I don't know what Winick was thinking.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Pft, that's nothing. Here's an early review:





Why?  Just why?  Sex symbol ahoy.

But hey, vindication, feels bad good man.

But Gabz, this is why I like women like Linda Park so much.  They're still relevant to heroes/heroines yet aren't cast down like that.  THE WALL is also a runner-up due to her being full of clever nastiness.  She and Granny Goodness need to duke it out for reals when she gets puffy again.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 21, 2011)

I wish I could say I'm surprised.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Oh and for the record that was the largest box of popcorn in the world.  If you had finished that I'd crown you God-Empress of Man.



gabzilla said:


> I wish I could say I'm surprised.



Well remember, Gabriella (sp?), you've been used to this sort of realm with Cass and Steph.  I'm playing catch-up again since my high school/early college days pre-Army, so I'm new to disappointment.

Actually, wait, no I'm not.  I have Matt Ward. 

So God damn it, Catwoman...


----------



## Blinky (Sep 21, 2011)

errr seriously ? The sex scene ? Guess I won't be reading that :/


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2011)

hahahaha oh god, that cant be true

does winnick not have an editor to reign him in?


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 21, 2011)

I like this new Catwoman.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 21, 2011)

lol that issue of Catwoman sounds horrible. I'll take a look at it myself later today when I go to buy the comic books I was actually intending to read. Whoever gave the green light to that mess after all of that crap they spouted about women earlier needs to be smacked. 

Or maybe those things only applied to WW and Babsgirl considering what Starfire is wearing. 



The Pink Ninja said:


> Yeah, NY in Marvel is waaaaay too crowded. Everything happens there and it gets old.
> 
> Gotham is a little crowded too but on the otherhand all the heroes there are low powered street level types (Crossovers excluded). It's the best fictional city I can think of after Anhk-Morpork.
> 
> I prefer DC fictional cities to Marvel's NY myself although for some series real cities maybe better.



When I was reading Runaways I found it quite surprising how a lot of people just thought all the super heroes were a myth and didn't exist or something despite them all being active for at least 10 years in Marvel's sliding timeline thingy or whatever they call it. All because that book primarily took place on the West Coast and like 90% of Marvel super heroes whore themselves out to New York.

I mean, it sounds like the mood DC had been trying to set in Justice League #1 with only a few of the costumed heroes starting to reveal themselves to the general public.

I agree about preferring DC fictional cities.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> hahahaha oh god, that cant be true
> 
> does winnick not have an editor to reign him in?



No, that or Winnick has an ego the size of Antarctica.

I miss Geoff Johns sometimes...even if he was promoted to Chief Creative Officer.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

While no doubt stupid to put it in, especially considering how DC's tryin to appeal to newer and supposedly younger readers.

But i've got a question.

Would this make sense considering Catwoman's origin of being a prostitute?


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 21, 2011)

I don't think sense has anything to do with it. It's just mindless fanservice.

A shame, Selina is much more than just fanservice.


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 21, 2011)

What are you guys going to be picking up today, btw?

Batman: I was originally just going to pick up BnR as my only Batman title, but I've decided against this because of a review that I've read. I'm interested in seeing a new perspective to Batman.

Captain Atom: I've always been a big fan of the character. Will be interesting to see how his story goes.

Catwoman (just so I can see this crazy sex scene)

Red Hood and the Outlaws: Another title I was going to pass up on, but after seeing that gorgeous artwork, I have to pick it up now. I like Starfire a lot too.

Supergirl: Fan of the character.

Wonder Woman: BIG fan of WW. I'm mainly looking forward to the fresh perspective on the book...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

Looking at my pull list i've got

Batman
Blue Beetle
Catwoman
Green Lantern Corps
Nightwing
Red Hood & The Outlaws
Wonder Woman

I'm debating if I should drop Catwoman and pick up Supergirl instead.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Giving Supergirl a shot, Red Hood definitely even if I still think he wants to be Punisher, and Nightwing for now.



Emperor Joker said:


> While no doubt stupid to put it in, especially considering how DC's tryin to appeal to newer and supposedly younger readers.
> 
> But i've got a question.
> 
> Would this make sense considering Catwoman's origin of being a prostitute?





gabzilla said:


> I don't think sense has anything to do with it. It's just mindless fanservice.
> 
> A shame, Selina is much more than just fanservice.



Pretty much what Gab just said.  It really makes no sense and if anything just wants Catwoman out there for the fanboys to fapdrool over since Power Girl is inaccessible.  Pathetic, really.  I mean I'm not adverse to sex in comics but at least create some build-up or some substance behind it.  Remember Selina in Frank Miller's _Dark Knight_?  Do we need that in a reboot?


----------



## Cromer (Sep 21, 2011)

YES.



YES, WE DO.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 21, 2011)

Well, I'm sure you are going to enjoy the last page.

Because... eh.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

Cromer said:


> YES.
> 
> 
> 
> YES, WE DO.



Wrong answer

the correct answer is No, no we don't.

I don't mind sex, but as Mael said, don't just slap it on the comics for sex's sake.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Cromer said:


> YES.
> 
> YES, WE DO.



NO.


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 21, 2011)

Has anybody here actually read the first issue of Catwoman or are we just going by what *1* review said? Because the review I'm reading right now said it was pretty good.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Has anybody here actually read the first issue of Catwoman or are we just going by what *1* review said? Because the review I'm reading right now said it was pretty good.



Nobody has it yet, i'll look it through when I go to my comics store later though.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 21, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Has anybody here actually read the first issue of Catwoman or are we just going by what *1* review said? Because the review I'm reading right now said it was pretty good.



I just saw the last page.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Has anybody here actually read the first issue of Catwoman or are we just going by what *1* review said? Because the review I'm reading right now said it was pretty good.



I've read multiple and so far apprehension is the name of the game.

Don't preach a "don't knock until you try" since I've been down that road before with books, lore, and comics.


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 21, 2011)

Meh, I'm not a fan of sex in comics and especially when it's shown so blatantly, Catwoman's attraction to Batman has always been a part of her character, though...

EDIT: What's wrong with that approach, though? A lot of times we base our opinion off reviews and a comic turns out to be suprisingly good, probably because it wasn't for the reader's taste. What I'm saying is, if you wanted to read Catwoman, don't change your mind just by what a few people said.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> EDIT: What's wrong with that approach, though? A lot of times we base our opinion off reviews and a comic turns out to be suprisingly good, probably because it wasn't for the reader's taste. What I'm saying is, if you wanted to read Catwoman, don't change your mind just by what a few people said.



I won't NOT give it a shot (lol double negative), but I certainly won't be all bright-eyed upon picking it up.

EDIT: Yeeeahh...........


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I just saw the last page.



That's not that bad.

Especially considering as Bluebeard has said the Batman/Catwoman relationship is a well known and established part of the batbooks...as long as we don't have a long and stupid sex scene next issue that interferes with the plot, i'll be fine.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I'm debating if I should drop Catwoman and pick up Supergirl instead.



yes. **


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Look I understand the attraction to Batman, but let's not make Catwoman look like a complete fangirl, kay?


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 21, 2011)

I honestly can't see Batman just having sex with Catwoman when he doesn't even know her identity. I guess I'm too used to him being a paranoid nut.

I don't know, it just seems that page is trying to hard. I'm not even shocked. I had the same reaction to the Joker face off in Detective Comics.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

You know what i'm going to read this, before I make any judgments on it...I have no clue what's going on...and I can't make any decisions on heresay alone.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2011)

k... but supergirl actually looks decent from the preview and what I've read. the idea of exploring her newness to the world is a good one.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I honestly can't see Batman just having sex with Catwoman when he doesn't even know her identity. I guess I'm too used to him being a paranoid nut.
> 
> I don't know, it just seems that page is trying to hard. I'm not even shocked. I had the same reaction to the Joker face off in Detective Comics.



Sex sells.  I knew the "tension" between the two of them that's for sure, but talk about jumping the gun and then some.  Nice claws, let's fuck.

Splendid.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> k... but supergirl actually looks decent from the preview and what I've read. the idea of exploring her newness to the world is a good one.



No what i mean is i'm going to leaf through it, when i'm at my shop...i'm buying Supergirl regardless


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 21, 2011)

So, does this mean batman also carries Batcondom in his batbelt. Or do we have to wait for another nine months for Damien to become a big brother.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

I have no problems with the sex itself, again, but it's so damnably rushed.  I've got a soft spot for females I used to watch in the cartoons and the like, but damn man.

Where are you when we need you, Eartha Kitt? 

RIP.


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 21, 2011)

"And most of the costumes stay on" bwahahahaha

Seediness maximus


----------



## mali (Sep 21, 2011)

What is up with that position and the costumes 

Green Lanterns is probably my favorite issue so far in the entire reboot, Static was alright as well.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 21, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> So, does this mean batman also carries Batcondom in his batbelt. Or do we have to wait for another nine months for Damien to become a big brother.



What part of "crazy prepared" do you not get?


----------



## Gallant (Sep 21, 2011)

I flipped through Catwoman while I was there. I can safely say I have no intentions of buying it or any future issues if it is going to be like that. >__>



Bluebeard said:


> What are you guys going to be picking up today, btw?



I just got back and I got the following:

Nightwing
Red Hood and the Outlaws
Green Lantern Corps
Batman
Supergirl
Birds of Prey


----------



## Parallax (Sep 21, 2011)

I think I'm just gonna get Batman and WW

I'm poor :[

maybe Red Hood too im not sure yet


----------



## illmatic (Sep 21, 2011)

So, Supergirl was basically one big action sequence


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 21, 2011)

Here's hoping Blue Beetle is awesome.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

illmatic said:


> So, Supergirl was basically one big action sequence



Read it, and quite enjoyed it.

I'm a sucker for action sequences, even in mah scribble writings.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 21, 2011)

I really enjoyed Supergirl. Loads of action but I enjoyed her thought process while trying to figure out where she was throughout the issue. Of course Superman showing up at the end was expected but still nice.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

So i'm back from the store...glad I ditched Catwoman, the quick scan through I allowed when browsing through I did, was enough to make me not want to buy it.

It wasn't as bad as it could have been, still exactly wasn't all that good either. it was mediocre, and the need for constant T&A brought it down.

I'm not even sure why I had it on my pull list to begin with now that I think about it.

anyways replaced it with Supergirl, which was quality, and a good buy, very action packed as well.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Gallant said:


> I really enjoyed Supergirl. Loads of action but I enjoyed her thought process while trying to figure out where she was throughout the issue. Of course Superman showing up at the end was expected but still nice.



It showed a little interrelation and continuity.  I gotta praise Green and Johnson for being able to let the action do the talking.

"Father would love this dream."  

Fantastic line.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 21, 2011)

I liked how the random things she heard with super hearing were actually bits of dialogue from other books. I nice way to show that she's part of the DCU without an outright crossover. Of course, I still didn't mind the outright crossover at the end.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

So, so far JL #1 and dare I say Supergirl #1 are the two winners so far, IMO. I'm probably just being biased with the first choice. 

Now to see the Outlaws.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 21, 2011)

Hey, is it true there is a MYSTERIOUS WOMAN IN PURPLE in all/many of the new 52?


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 21, 2011)

Yeah, I call it Lady Fail Safe


----------



## Penance (Sep 21, 2011)

Supergirl and WW were...surprising.  Good stuff for now...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 21, 2011)

Yup. In Nightwing she's on the right when he first goes into haly's circus. Oh and Nightwing was great btw. Good start.

EDIT: And hilariously out of place in the dance club in catwoman

EDIT: and just casually walking through the construction site in GLC. (Where's Waldo is pretty fun)


----------



## Shadow (Sep 21, 2011)

I have Nightwing GL Corps Blue Beetle, Red Hood and the Outlaws, Batman and Marvel Stuff.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Hey, is it true there is a MYSTERIOUS WOMAN IN PURPLE in all/many of the new 52?





gabzilla said:


> Yeah, I call it Lady Fail Safe





Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yup. In Nightwing she's on the right when he first goes into haly's circus. Oh and Nightwing was great btw. Good start.



Watch it be Huntress. 

I'm sorry...I would laugh if that was the case.

Enlighten me, Gabz, as to what Ms. Fail Safe's powers are.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I liked how the random things she heard with super hearing were actually bits of dialogue from other books. I nice way to show that she's part of the DCU without an outright crossover. Of course, I still didn't mind the outright crossover at the end.



ugggghhh global superhearing though. one of the dumbest superman powers, i was hoping it'd at least be limited to the city or something. btw even better i'm pretty sure they were all from books that came out this week.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 21, 2011)

Honestly I don't mind the global hearing power as long as it's just as much a weakness as a strength. If she can't control her hearing or block out stuff that should be a huge weakness.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> ugggghhh global superhearing though. one of the dumbest superman powers, i was hoping it'd at least be limited to the city or something. btw even better i'm pretty sure they were all from books that came out this week.



Beg to differ.  That power's like the CIA's wet dream.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 21, 2011)

Mael said:


> Enlighten me, Gabz, as to what Ms. Fail Safe's powers are.



Undo the reboot if it turns out to be unpopular long term.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2011)

Mael said:


> Beg to differ.  That power's like the CIA's wet dream.



its stupid because it's too powerful and kinda makes the whole world superman's responsibility to the point where I don't find it plausible that he could even take any time off to be clark kent. it's a bullshit power in a very silver age way, in that all his powers were bullshit then.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 21, 2011)

I'm too busy to search (Also: too cool) to see if this has been said, but apparently JT Krul will only be writing GA for the first three issues, where it will be taken over by Keith Giffen and Dan Jurgens.

That... is awesome.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 21, 2011)

Oh God Red Hood and the Outlaws might be one of my favorites of the 52. Jason and Roy go so well together here. 

Starfire is the only one here that feels slightly out of place. I'm not sure I like that she apparently remembers nothing about her friends but I'll see where they go with this.



Emperor Joker said:


> So i'm back from the store...glad I ditched Catwoman, the quick scan through I allowed when browsing through I did, was enough to make me not want to buy it.



I'm glad we all seem unanimous about this so far. I wouldn't mind if her book gets scrapped if I could trade it in for something with Steph or Cass later down the line.



Mael said:


> It showed a little interrelation and continuity.  I gotta praise Green and Johnson for being able to let the action do the talking.
> 
> "Father would love this dream."
> 
> Fantastic line.



Yeah, much praise indeed. I loved that line as well as the look on her face when she says it.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Undo the reboot if it turns out to be unpopular long term.





Impossible...none can defeat Barry Allen.



Petes12 said:


> its stupid because it's too powerful and kinda makes the whole world superman's responsibility to the point where I don't find it plausible that he could even take any time off to be clark kent. it's a bullshit power in a very silver age way, in that all his powers were bullshit then.



Hey now, let's not bash the Silver Age.  I frankly don't find an issue...especially in the sense that he knows other heroes/heroines work other jurisdictions.



Guy Gardner said:


> I'm too busy to search (Also: too cool) to see if this has been said, but apparently JT Krul will only be writing GA for the first three issues, where it will be taken over by Keith Giffen and Dan Jurgens.
> 
> That... is awesome.







But that sounds pretty cool.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 21, 2011)

Guy Gardner is a Ravens fan.

Godamn, everything this man does is awesome.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> *Guy Gardner is a Ravens fan*.
> 
> Godamn, everything this man does is awesome.



Where was Guy in Week 2?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 21, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Guy Gardner is a Ravens fan.
> 
> Godamn, everything this man does is awesome.



You know what would improve the GL books? If they got the GLs together more often for sports events. I think it'd be awesome to see a Lions party at John Stewart's house, or watch the rest of the GLs hold Guy back at a Yankees game. And Hal can watch the expansion Coast City ______ and laugh that Los Angeles has yet again not gotten a team.

Oh, and maybe Kyle can invite them to watch soccer. He always seemed more affluent when it came to sports.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2011)

Green Arrow's art will still suck. Good thing I don't like Green Arrow much I guess.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 21, 2011)

Mael said:


> Where was Guy in Week 2?





Season is already a triumph for the Ravens for raping the steelers. 



Guy Gardner said:


> You know what would improve the GL books? If they got the GLs together more often for sports events. I think it'd be awesome to see a Lions party at John Stewart's house, or watch the rest of the GLs hold Guy back at a Yankees game. And Hal can watch the expansion Coast City ______ and laugh that Los Angeles has yet again not gotten a team.
> 
> Oh, and maybe Kyle can invite them to watch soccer. He always seemed more affluent when it came to sports.




That sounds really neat.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 21, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Season is already a triumph for the Ravens for raping the steelers.



Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ravens were drunk for the entirety of Week 2 due to Guy's influence.

Edit: Better idea. There should be a Fantasy Football league amongst Justice Leaugers.

"I can't get over it, Dinah. I'm convinced that Batman hacked Yahoo so that he could put Ray Rice as his starter this week."


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ravens were drunk for the entirety of Week 2 due to Guy's influence.
> 
> Edit: Better idea. There should be a Fantasy Football league amongst Justice Leaugers.
> 
> "I can't get over it, Dinah. I'm convinced that Batman hacked Yahoo so that he could put Ray Rice as his starter this week."



Last football comment...

Belichick = Darkseid.



Anyway...can't wait to read the Outlaws.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2011)

Shocking news everyone! Batman #1 was really good. WW was pretty good too. And Nightwing wasn't half bad either. Snyder gets in another classic Damian line aimed at Tim.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 21, 2011)

Mael said:


> Last football comment...
> 
> Belichick = Darkseid.



*To:* FstMnAlv
*From:* RedBluePride (Commissioner)

*Subject:* _Re: Lte Chng_

Look, Barry, I'm tired of this. I'm no longer allowing you to do late roster changes because you "didn't have time". I don't care if you have to run to the Central City Library in costume and make the changes yourself, you have to get them in on time.

Also, I'm denying your Peyton Manning for Drew Brees trade to Arthur. Please stop trying to take advantage of him; he's only learning.

_>>>> Clrk, bsy @ work. Could u ovride & put Romo in for Hsselbck? Thnks!<<<<_


----------



## Blinky (Sep 21, 2011)

I really liked Batman


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

Batman was a good read, easy to get into in my mind, and it should cause that much confusion to new readers...other than the Gordon Jr. cameo in Arkham I suppose.

definitly picking up issue 2

as for Birds of Prey...it was okay I guess, I don't feel the same kind of magic, Simone brought to the book


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

So I never read the previous Blue Beetle series...Were The Reach a horde of conquering aliens in that or is this something new for the reboot?


----------



## Penance (Sep 21, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> So I never read the previous Blue Beetle series...Were The Reach a horde of conquering aliens in that or is this something new for the reboot?



I wanna say they were before the new 52...Jamie's scarab is a "defective recruiter"...


----------



## Penance (Sep 21, 2011)

RH and the Outlaws:  Surprisingly one of my favorite reads, for the


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

So going by Legion of Super Heroes, Barry didn't just merge three timelines together, he made it almost impossible to Time Travel as well.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> So I never read the previous Blue Beetle series...Were The Reach a horde of conquering aliens in that or is this something new for the reboot?



they were a race of world conquerors who pretended to be friendly in the old series. which is out of continuity now obviously.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> So going by Legion of Super Heroes, Barry didn't just merge three timelines together, he made it almost impossible to Time Travel as well.



Barry Allen is so far notoriously responsible for:

The return of Darkseid
Catwoman #1
The disappearance of Cass, Steph, etc.
18-1
Ibrox Stadium
The cancellation of Static Shock
The Hindenburg
Questionable hero outfits
Lou Gehrig's
The Horus Heresy


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 21, 2011)

Damnit. Everything but Batman was sold out today...

Went in trying to get Red Hood, WW, and Batman. Only have the latter


----------



## Gallant (Sep 21, 2011)

Just read Batman. Very good start. I liked it just as much as Batman and Robin if not more. The cliffhanger has me wanting to really see the issue. Although with all of the Robins appearing in this issue I can see why Gabz rages so much on this topic.

Nightwing was pretty good as well. The thing about Dick being a vicious killer makes me wonder if it is going to tie into what went on in Batman this week. Seems likely at any rate.

Really enjoyed Green Lantern Corps. Just like Hal, John and Guy are having struggles in their civilian lives although they actually do have their rings for the moment. It was a nice touch to show how it is hard to have a "day job" when the entire world knows you are a super powered hero. They definitely should have worn masks. 



Penance said:


> RH and the Outlaws:  Surprisingly one of my favorite reads, for the



I will be at my comic book shop's door next month as they open just so I can get that comic first.



Emperor Joker said:


> So going by Legion of Super Heroes, Barry didn't just merge three timelines together, he made it almost impossible to Time Travel as well.



I'm going to have to read this now.


----------



## Penance (Sep 21, 2011)

Mael said:


> Barry Allen is so far notoriously responsible for:
> 
> The return of Darkseid
> Catwoman #1
> ...



...Yeah.  That's right...


----------



## Koi (Sep 21, 2011)

I have to get most of the new stuff digitally because the place I go to has a ridiculously tiny selection, and it sucks because I don't get to flip through something I'm on the fence about.  But I think today I'm going to grab Supergirl and WW, and I forgot Batwoman so I'll grab her too.

I was so, SO excited that Selina was getting her own run because she's my god damned favorite Batverse lady but I just.. I can't.  I can't bring myself to do it.   And it sucks because she'll get canceled and they'll say nobody likes her any more and whatever but this is just _not_ how you write Selina, according to what I've seen.  It seemed like a good idea before anything actually got released, but now?  Noooooooooooo.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Koi said:


> I have to get most of the new stuff digitally because the place I go to has a ridiculously tiny selection, and it sucks because I don't get to flip through something I'm on the fence about.  But I think today I'm going to grab Supergirl and WW, and I forgot Batwoman so I'll grab her too.
> 
> I was so, SO excited that Selina was getting her own run because she's my god damned favorite Batverse lady but I just.. I can't.  I can't bring myself to do it.   And it sucks because she'll get canceled and they'll say nobody likes her any more and whatever but this is just _not_ how you write Selina, according to what I've seen.  It seemed like a good idea before anything actually got released, but now?  Noooooooooooo.



Koi, it's ok.  We're here.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 21, 2011)

Damnit, Blue Beetle and Batman were too fucking epic.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 21, 2011)

*Wonder Woman*: Someone said this was the best book of the relaunch. I'm not sure I'll go that far yet, but they definitely are right about the quality. This definitely has an unnerving, mythical feel to it. While you don't get much backstory on Wonder Woman, you still get a good feel for the character. Chiang's art makes the story that much better, and I like Hermes' WWI Runner look.  Definitely a must-have.

*Batman*: Another excellent story. If there is anything you can say about the reboot, it's this: DC has really gotten their top properties in order. The story doesn't really begin until the end, but it's a good introduction to the comic-book Batman for newcomers. Capullo's art is great and chaotic, though I think Dick seems way too short in one scene. It looks like he wants to set up a bigger cast for Gotham in general, and I'm interested to see where this all goes.

*Nightwing*: Surprisingly good. I wasn't expecting much, but the story was solid and the art was much better than I thought it would be. For some reason, Barrow still can't draw people smiling without looking like they've been hit with Joker Venom, but at the very least the awkward stuff is minimized. I'll stick around to see what Not-Wolverine is talking about in regards to Dick.

*Birds of Prey*: It's okay. The plot is fine, the art is good enough... but it just doesn't have enough characters yet. More than that, it just didn't get me interested in them compared to, say, Justice League. In all honesty, though, I'll likely still pick it up: it feels like it has potential, and I want to see what Canary is going to do.

*Green Lantern Corps*: Pete Tomasi is the man. Seriously, he really deserves so much more credit than he gets for his redefinition of the Green Lantern Corps. Yes, Johns has the concepts and the characters, but Tomasi is the guy who made you love them. It's Tomasi who made guys like Isamot and Vath interesting, who made the Corps come alive rather than just a bunch of guys on a splash page. He's also done an excellent job with the other Earth Lanterns, and he's my personal Jesus for his work with Guy Gardner. Not only that, but the issue is great for newcomers who might not understand all the concepts of GLs, which are done in a manner where they show off the characters and don't come off as blatant exposition. While this might not be the best-written book, it's still damn good and probably my favorite.

*Legion of Superheroes*: Man, I really needed to read Adventure Comics, didn't I? This is a lot better to jump into than, say, Legion Lost, though it still is a little confusing at times. Interestingly enough, as Emperor Joker says, Flashpoint has ended Time Travel for the time being, so it looks like they aren't going to be messing around in the past for a while. A lot of plots here, and none of them are bad, but I'm not particularly interested. If you like the Legion, though, you're in the best hands you could hope for.

*Supergirl*: Perfectly acceptable comics. A lot of fighting, relying on Supergirl's inner monologue to show off the confusion of what's going on. I am a bit confused as to who is attacking her, but the whole comic is done relatively well. Definitely nice to see that the Superman Family has gone 3 for 3.

*Catwoman*: *Sigh* Okay. The story behind this comic isn't bad. The problem is the scripting and the art are so blatantly cheesecake that it's hard to get beyond that aspect. I mean, Jesus, tone it down a little. I feel kind of dirty for reading this. The last page is really face-palming, even moreso when you could have gotten the idea across better if they had decided to stop a page early. Instead, we get an awkward cow-girl shot of Catwoman on Batman. Again, the writing itself isn't bad, it's really the execution and visuals which make you embarrassed to be a comic book fan.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 21, 2011)

I liked Batman, it was really great

Wonder Woman was pretty good but I felt underwhelmed


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2011)

I really liked it. Granted I have a bit of a geeky thing for mythology so I really like to see the new interpretations of the gods... but it was a good start to a story that looks like it's gonna heat up pretty quickly. 

BoP was not bad either, even though I question the existence of this book without barbara as a regular member. She does show up though, and its implied the BoP history is still intact a couple ways... just so you know gab


----------



## Parallax (Sep 21, 2011)

no no I did really liked it, it just felt abrupt.  Like it could have used a page or 2 more


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 21, 2011)

Ugh.

Starfire and Catwoman didn't benefit from the reboot.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 21, 2011)

Dick looked 15 in Batman.

In fact, the only one that looks his age is Damian 



Petes12 said:


> I really liked it. Granted I have a bit of a geeky thing for mythology so I really like to see the new interpretations of the gods... but it was a good start to a story that looks like it's gonna heat up pretty quickly.
> 
> BoP was not bad either, even though I question the existence of this book without barbara as a regular member. She does show up though, and its implied the BoP history is still intact a couple ways... just so you know gab



Seems her friendship with Dinah is very different, though.

Joy.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 21, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Ugh.
> 
> Starfire and Catwoman didn't benefit from the reboot.



They must have been thinking what was the best way to whore both of them out. Lets have Starfire bang Jason before this issue actually takes place and then have her bang Roy _as_ Jason is preoccupied. Brilliant!

I don't even want to get started with Catwoman. At least the book Starfire is in is actually _good_. I can't say the same for Catwoman or what they decided to do in her first issue.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 21, 2011)

Batman was really really good. Snyder = $$$ and that Batman design...just 
Nightwing was good too
WW was not as good as I expected, its okay kind of glad it was sold out and I didnt get it though.
Catwoman was one of the worst comics I have ever read...actually I didnt even read it.


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Dick looked 15 in Batman.
> 
> In fact, the only one that looks his age is Damian
> 
> ...



Are we thinking of near the fire place relaxation and stress releaser type of friendship.

On a serious note, i have officially hates Cat Woman. The Halley Barry CW had me saying meh to her character, and now the comic has just killed her for me.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 21, 2011)

Outlaws would have been so much better if they hadn't changed Kory's personality.

I mean, have her bang both, but don't change her entire character ffs


----------



## Gallant (Sep 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Outlaws would have been so much better if they hadn't changed Kory's personality.
> 
> I mean, have her bang both, but don't change her entire character ffs



That and don't make it so she has complete amnesia. I mean technically what is stopping her from completely forgetting Jason and Roy at some point and ditching them because of how detached she is to all things Earth? 

I generally like her but she felt out of place in the book and like she was a last second add on or something. Which really wouldn't surprise me to be honest.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 21, 2011)

*Question*: Now we are 3 weeks into the month, What does everyone think the most accessible/new reader title of The New 52 been so far?


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 21, 2011)

Gallant said:


> That and don't make it so she has complete amnesia. I mean technically what is stopping her from completely forgetting Jason and Roy at some point and ditching them because of how detached she is to all things Earth?
> 
> I generally like her but she felt out of place in the book and like she was a last second add on or something. Which really wouldn't surprise me to be honest.



It's skeevy how Roy is all "oh so her memory kinda fails... that's ok, let's have sex". He's supposed to be his friend.

She was. The autor didn't want to use her but DC made him.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> It's skeevy how Roy is all "oh so her memory kinda fails... that's ok, let's have sex". He's supposed to be his friend.
> 
> She was. The autor didn't want to use her but DC made him.



This book clearly isn't about the power of friendship. I got that much from it not that I don't mind since that wasn't what I was expecting. Still, it is a messed up thing to do.

Welp, that explains why her character has been screwed over. Everything makes sense now. Forcing characters on people rarely turns out well. In almost all instances I know everyone just loses and no one gains anything.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> It's skeevy how Roy is all "oh so her memory kinda fails... that's ok, let's have sex". He's supposed to be his friend.
> 
> She was. The autor didn't want to use her but DC made him.



So far save for Supergirl, we've had some serious bone-chasers. 

Reboot...successful?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

Yeah the Starfire issue is what kept Red Hood from being a very good and fun book. How hard would it have been to keep her old personality? there are ways to put her ina  book without making her bizarre. Don't get me wrong I know she's never had anykind of problem with sexuality, but her portrayal in this book is just off

I'll still probably be picking up issue 2 though


----------



## Blinky (Sep 21, 2011)

I like the reboot overall. Then again I'm a newbie.


----------



## Penance (Sep 21, 2011)

illmatic said:


> *Question*: Now we are 3 weeks into the month, What does everyone think the most accessible/new reader title of The New 52 been so far?




Blue Beetle, probably...


----------



## Blinky (Sep 21, 2011)

I liked Blue Beetle! I'm a fan of the character so as long as it wasn't fucked up I'd have liked it.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Seems Starfire cannot decide which former Robin she wants a piece of.

Well played, DC.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 21, 2011)

Mael said:


> Seems Starfire cannot decide which former Robin she wants a piece of.
> 
> Well played, DC.



Whichever one's closest.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 21, 2011)

Starfire seemed out of character for me. I know she doesn't have a taboo against it, but it simply was blatant fanservice.

Still, this week was seriously epic.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Starfire seemed out of character for me. I know she doesn't have a taboo against it, but it simply was blatant fanservice.
> 
> Still, this week was seriously epic.



So far we have Starfire double-duty fanservice and Catwoman's fanwoman fanservice.  Two for two.

What's next?  Is Power Girl going to actually get a Mr. Terrific Tasty Treat? 

Not the way to handle the ladies...but thank God Supergirl was the bright spot.  Now, for the next batch of comics.


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 21, 2011)

Just got back from the comic book store. I'm rather annoyed too. Again, I miss out on the titles that I was really looking forward to due to the issues being outsold. Goddamnit. So no Wonder Woman, Catwoman, and Batman for me. 

On the plus side, what I did get...

Blue Beetle: Bedard is great. We get introduced to Jaime (who I've always been a fan of), so I didn't really complain about the lack of Kord. I also knew about the Reach and they look like pretty compelling villains. It was nice to see a really connected verse, what with the Green Lantern popping up. Looking forward to the next issue, especially since Jaime just got the Scarab.

Captain Atom: It was pretty good, however, nothing really interesting happened during the story besides Captain Atom discovering a new power (in the first issue) and what appears to be an evil monster thing that can disguise itself as a rat. Whooo! I'm intrigued, though.

GLC: Nice first issue. John and Guy trying to find a role in the normal world was funny and kind of sad in a way. Guy is a fan of the ravens, though. Dissapointed in him . The new enemies of the GLC are kind of promising, they appear to be invisible and are very vicious. 

Red Hood and the Outlaws: Very enjoyable. Jason Todd being a badass was nice and especially when he freed Harper. I know a lot of you guys are angry about Starfire, but I kind of like these changes. She just seems so much more alien which I kind of like. I'll miss the old Starfire and I could've done without the whole sex thing, but besides that, shit was cool. Will pick up next issue.

Supergirl: My favorite after Blue Beetle. Action-packed issue with plenty of origin details, that was nice. Supergirl's super-hearing being used to put in lines from other books was also a nice touch. One of them was from Birds of Prey, I know that because I skimmed it . Modern Supes at the end was a nice touch, so it's pretty obvious that they will throw down. I wonder who the organization that was trying to nab Supergirl was, N.O.W.H.E.R.E or maybe Cadmus?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

I'm hoping for more appearence from the Brotherhood of Evil in Blue Beetle myself, but yeah it's definitly a very solid book, and I think it's one of my favorites this week (along with Wonder Woman and Supergirl)


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 21, 2011)

^

Brain and Mallah, ftw. 

I really wanted Wonder Woman, though.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Starfire seemed out of character for me. I know she doesn't have a taboo against it, but it simply was blatant fanservice.
> 
> Still, this week was seriously epic.



blatant fanservice seems like the status quo to me with her, which is why i really dont like her.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> blatant fanservice seems like the status quo to me with her, which is why i really dont like her.



Honestly it's not something to hate the character altogether for, but more the writer.  Kory had perfect moments on TT well in the past and even before the reboot.  Yes a lot of her involved sex appeal and some rather scandalous moments with Tim (or Dick), but it doesn't make her wholly unlikeable.  The only version of Starfire I could've hated to date was from that abortion of a Cartoon Network program.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 21, 2011)

Honestly I could give two shits about her wanting to bang people. Dudes who are all about banging chicks are seen as womanizers, the opposite is for some reason a slut and looked down upon. Starfire's a sexual character so I really don't care about her having sex.

What I do care about is her sudden amnesia or whatever the fuck. So she just can't remember Grayson? Seems like a sill cop out to avoid dealing with the drama. Also, you'd think Roy (good friend of Dick) wouldn't be so quick to tap that. Of course, it is starfire...and it is roy, so who knows.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2011)

Mael said:


> Honestly it's not something to hate the character altogether for, but more the writer.  Kory had perfect moments on TT well in the past and even before the reboot.  Yes a lot of her involved sex appeal and some rather scandalous moments with Tim (or Dick), but it doesn't make her wholly unlikeable.  The only version of Starfire I could've hated to date was from that abortion of a Cartoon Network program.



 thats the only place shes been remotely likeable.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Honestly I could give two shits about her wanting to bang people. Dudes who are all about banging chicks are seen as womanizers, the opposite is for some reason a slut and looked down upon. Starfire's a sexual character so I really don't care about her having sex.
> 
> What I do care about is her sudden amnesia or whatever the fuck. So she just can't remember Grayson? Seems like a sill cop out to avoid dealing with the drama. Also, you'd think Roy (good friend of Dick) wouldn't be so quick to tap that. Of course, it is starfire...and it is roy, so who knows.



But we're not trying to play into either.  It's just rather odd to see if one bases themselves on traditional outlooks, nothing to do with actual gender roles.  The amnesia's a cop-out for not knowing how the fuck to writer her in.



Petes12 said:


> thats the only place shes been remotely likeable.



You serious?  That cartoon made putting a Glock in my mouth and blowing my left cheek out more enjoyable.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 21, 2011)

Lots of people like the cartoon from what I've seen.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> But we're not trying to play into either.  It's just rather odd to see if one bases themselves on traditional outlooks, nothing to do with actual gender roles.  The amnesia's a cop-out for not knowing how the fuck to writer her in.



Yea, Im just saying I've seen word around the net and from a few friends that's like "OMG they made her such a slut! RAGEEE!" When that's not even really the issue.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 22, 2011)

I actually really like the cartoon. I sometimes really don't get the hate for it.

As for this Starfire, I hope it will get changed somewhere down the line because I just don't like this portrayal of her and "pseudo-amnesia"

I don't mind the sex appeal, but the "All humans are the same" mentality bugs me to no end


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 22, 2011)

Wow captain atom really defies expectations. Great book by a creative team I hate! Hated. Past tense now. Talk about the perfect use of Williams' strengths as an artist.


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Lots of people like the cartoon from what I've seen.



Lots of people like Twilight and the Scary Movie franchise.

I for one despised the overused anime stock expressions, Japanese rock that sounded...well just awful, and the utterly grating voice acting.  Just give me Clancy Browne, Powers Boothe, Kevin Conroy, Mark Hamill, Ron Perlman (as Orion), Morena Baccarin, James Remar, Gina Torres (Vixen), Nathan Fillion (Vigilante), and the ever awesome Michael Ironside.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> You serious?  That cartoon made putting a Glock in my mouth and blowing my left cheek out more enjoyable.



It was obviously for, you know, kids, but as far as that stuff goes it was alright. Better than BatB


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Wow captain atom really defies expectations. Great book by a creative team I hate! Hated. Past tense now. Talk about the perfect use of Williams' strengths as an artist.



Glad somebody else liked it, I don't like Atom's redesign...bit to Dr. Manhattan like in my opinion. which is somewhat ironic considering Manhattan was based off Atom in the first place. but otherwise a solid book



Petes12 said:


> It was obviously for, you know, kids, but as far as that stuff goes it was alright.* Better than BatB *



Ah Petes you wound me


----------



## Blinky (Sep 22, 2011)

I like BatB. It's awesome that there is a place somewhere for a non-grimdark bats.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 22, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Glad somebody else liked it, I don't like Atom's redesign...bit to Dr. Manhattan like in my opinion. which is somewhat ironic considering Manhattan was based off Atom in the first place. but otherwise a solid book



That's kind of the idea though isn't it? They're going to a very Doctor Manhattan place with him, powers wise and thematically. And I think it's a good idea because honestly manhattan is more interesting than some grumpy overly patriotic soldier type with the powers of ms. marvel. 

Also I like the redesign particularly compared to the old, really stupid look. He's silver but he still has hair? And skintight red gloves AND blue boots? That is just dumb.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 22, 2011)

Blinky said:


> I like BatB. It's awesome that there is a place somewhere for a non-grimdark bats.



its not really a batman cartoon though its a teamup cartoon. and the overly campy silver age/adam west style is not endearing to me. Maybe it'd bug me less if Batman were an actual character with personality instead of 'generic hero with dickish one liners'


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> It was obviously for, you know, kids, but as far as that stuff goes it was alright. Better than BatB



Tell that to deviantArt.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 22, 2011)

Batman has more name recognition though then just 'Brave & The Bold'


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 22, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Batman has more name recognition though then just 'Brave & The Bold'



there actually was a time when the BatB comics were always some obscure hero teamed up with batman. 

Still didn't like it!


----------



## Gallant (Sep 22, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Honestly I could give two shits about her wanting to bang people. Dudes who are all about banging chicks are seen as womanizers, the opposite is for some reason a slut and looked down upon. Starfire's a sexual character so I really don't care about her having sex.
> 
> What I do care about is her sudden amnesia or whatever the fuck. So she just can't remember Grayson? Seems like a sill cop out to avoid dealing with the drama. Also, you'd think Roy (good friend of Dick) wouldn't be so quick to tap that. Of course, it is starfire...and it is roy, so who knows.



I don't care about this either but if DC is going to try and not make sex be a blatant thing for people to harp on in this new 52 *see the Wonder Woman with or without pants nonsense* they should try to be consistent with that narrative rather than it only applying it to one character or two while the others are doing a 180 in the other direction.

I have far more of an issue with her apparently "who the hell cares" mentality with her actual friends and people she has been romantically involved with in the past. The main stand out being Dick Grayson.

Everything just reeks of them wanting to have their cake and eat it too in this "We are rebooting but not really rebooting" initiative. If this was a completely different Starfire that didn't have any of that history I'd be less agitated with how she was written and portrayed in the book.

That being said, it still is one of my favorites of this week.


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Batman has more name recognition though then just 'Brave & The Bold'



He is the *Night Haunter* of course.


----------



## Slice (Sep 22, 2011)

I found time to read a second issue of the reboot and got Supergirl. Really liked that one but i think it could have done without bringing Superman in so early.

Her inner monologue was great but she could have shown a bit more reactions to her suddent outburst of powers.

Overall i'd say its a 4/5


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Sep 22, 2011)

Blinky said:


> I like the reboot overall. Then again I'm a newbie.



same here, i don't know how the characters are suppose to act or not act. but what i got from this thread is dc females aren't sluts.

the fanservice doesn't bother me, I enjoyed catwoman and outlaws. i thought the creepy kid posting pics of starfire on facebook was pretty funny.


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

~Gesy~ said:


> same here, i don't know how the characters are suppose to act or not act. but what i got from this thread is dc females aren't sluts.
> 
> the fanservice doesn't bother me, I enjoyed catwoman and outlaws. i thought the creepy kid posting pics of starfire on facebook was pretty funny.



It's more the desire to not knock boots the first sign of life.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 22, 2011)

This was a strange week in general for the reboot books.

*Wonder Woman* - The only book to live up to the hype so far.

*Batman* - Capullo did pretty damn good, however I great prefer his style for the costumed stuff over the downtime stuff, Synder writes a good mystery and manages to incorporate some twists some turns.

*Nightwing* - I liked the art kinda, the story was boring.

*GLC* - I don't care about either of those characters and the art is nothing special

*Red Hood & Etc* - Rocafort draws a really fun action comic, I can easily see why people have issues but it was only a couple pages. Not sure how I feel about this one.

*Catwoman* - Don't give a darn

*Captain Atom* - Didn't grab me

*Birds of Prey* - Haha no wasn't gonna bother with that one in the first place

*Blue Beetle* - Whatever I never cared about the Blue Beetle anyway.


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

I read Red Hood...and damn it all I cannot get the image of Abe Sapein out of my head whenever I see God damn Jason Todd.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 22, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Honestly I could give two shits about her wanting to bang people. Dudes who are all about banging chicks are seen as womanizers, the opposite is for some reason a slut and looked down upon. Starfire's a sexual character so I really don't care about her having sex.
> 
> What I do care about is her sudden amnesia or whatever the fuck. So she just can't remember Grayson? Seems like a sill cop out to avoid dealing with the drama. Also, you'd think Roy (good friend of Dick) wouldn't be so quick to tap that. Of course, it is starfire...and it is roy, so who knows.



Exactly. I dodn't even mind her outfit that much. I'd would LOVE this book if it was "let's fight crime and have sex". But the changes to Kory's personality (and Roy and Jason acting like frat boys) bug me.

Also, Wonder Woman was flawless.


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

Well you already know Gabz that I'm not the biggest Jason Todd fan since I'm convinced somebody's trying to make him DC's Frank Castle where he couldn't hold a candle to him, so this personality change just further dampens the image.  I think we can all agree you can do the nasty in comics and Starfire is no exception, but where we all should be getting at is how this amnesia is a crock.

Fave Robin?  Gonna have to go with the original Dick Greyson, then Tim Drake.  I prefer a little less dramu with my Robins and Batgirls, which is why Steph is #1 for the rather "Bubbles" personality from time to time.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 22, 2011)

Fuck Punisher fuck Punisher fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck Punisher

Can't stand him, it's a self-rightious vigilante murder fetish comic


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Fuck Punisher fuck Punisher fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck Punisher
> 
> Can't stand him, it's a self-rightious vigilante murder fetish comic



Hey now, you're crossing serious lines. 

Always liked him...him and Venom in his anti-hero mode, so when you're a kid reading Frank and in other comics the symbiote start tearing people new assholes, and then Red Hood comes along via Mr. Todd...you get a little suspicious. 

Also, I like anti-heroes and villains since more than once they've carried more personality or just some strange characteristic that I enjoyed more, if not reminding me of Clint in Sergio Leone's trilogy.  That could be due to shitty hero writing but I felt villains help shape heroes more than their own friends.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 22, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Fuck Punisher fuck Punisher fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck Punisher
> 
> Can't stand him, it's a self-rightious vigilante murder fetish comic



You aren't supposed to like him, you are just supposed to hate the people he is chasing more.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 22, 2011)

I don't not like him, I _*hate*_ him. Antagonists be damned.


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I don't not like him, I _*hate*_ him. Antagonists be damned.



To each his/her own, so I understand if you're simply carrying a feeling of anti-Bronson since not everyone likes a vigilante.  I just think you're going a little overboard since his creation was to show a far cry from the typical "hero jumps in, only beats up bad guys for the police, and then flies off with cheeky idealistic message."  He wasn't meant to be completely liked which is why he's an anti-hero.  It's why even Venom fighting crime was a good show.  It finally presented some moral gray area which is why I like anti-heroes a lot, and amongst the Batfamily Cassandra Cain (call her what you want, to me she's more anti-heroine than anything else).  He's the down and dirty of crime-fighting and hell Jason Todd sometimes takes that same approach.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 22, 2011)

About the only time I can recall actually liking Punisher was when he pulled a Scourge by showing up at Stiltman's wake at the bad guy bar as a Bartender during Civil War...and even then the liking was only sheer amusment.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 22, 2011)

The Punisher is an acquired taste .


----------



## Cromer (Sep 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> To each his/her own, so I understand if you're simply carrying a feeling of anti-Bronson since not everyone likes a vigilante.  I just think you're going a little overboard since his creation was to show a far cry from the typical "hero jumps in, only beats up bad guys for the police, and then flies off with cheeky idealistic message."  He wasn't meant to be completely liked which is why he's an anti-hero.  It's why even Venom fighting crime was a good show.  It finally presented some moral gray area which is why I like anti-heroes a lot, and amongst the Batfamily Cassandra Cain (call her what you want, to me she's more anti-heroine than anything else).  He's the down and dirty of crime-fighting and hell Jason Todd sometimes takes that same approach.



Cassandra Cain, an anti-heroine? 


No seriously, before all the Titans/Deathstroke drama, you could make a massive case for Cassandra Cain being as much of a cape as Superman, never mind the rest of the Bat-family.

And for the record, I hate seeing the Punisher out of his own book, because it just contrasts him with characters I actually admire, and he always looks like another villain next to them.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 22, 2011)

Cromer said:


> And for the record, I hate seeing the Punisher out of his own book, because it just contrasts him with characters I actually admire, and he always looks like another villain next to them.



That's what you are supposed to think though .


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Cassandra Cain, an anti-heroine?
> 
> No seriously, before all the Titans/Deathstroke drama, you could make a massive case for Cassandra Cain being as much of a cape as Superman, never mind the rest of the Bat-family.
> 
> And for the record, I hate seeing the Punisher out of his own book, because it just contrasts him with characters I actually admire, and he always looks like another villain next to them.



I think so.  Compared to the others save for Jason Todd she's certainly the grimmer of them, has ulterior motives particularly the vengeance upon David Cain (dad), settling issues with Lady Shiva (mom), got a meaner streak, comes from a shadier past, manipulated Robin, etc.  She's got the flaws that deny her the category of outright heroine as compared to let's say Supergirl or Black Canary.  For the record I like her character even if DC fucked with her on more than one occasion.



Platinum said:


> That's what you are supposed to think though .



Bingo.  So many people hate the Punisher...

He's basically the reminder that justice is subjective.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> I think so.  Compared to the others save for Jason Todd she's certainly the grimmer of them, has ulterior motives particularly the vengeance upon David Cain (dad), settling issues with Lady Shiva (mom), got a meaner streak, comes from a shadier past, manipulated Robin, etc.  She's got the flaws that deny her the category of outright heroine as compared to let's say Supergirl or Black Canary.  For the record I like her character even if DC fucked with her on more than one occasion.



Pretty much all of those "anti-heroic" traits you're mentioning are from a time when DC was writing Cass extremely out of character.

I still don't see how you could see her as an anti hero.



> Bingo.  So many people hate the Punisher...
> 
> He's basically the reminder that justice is subjective.



And I feel like Jason Todd helps that role in DC. The morality of DC is so skewed towards the superhero side that pretty much anybody who kills for any reason is almost always labelled a villain. I like Jason Todd because he bucks that trend, and cracks Robinesque one liners while doing it.


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Pretty much all of those "anti-heroic" traits you're mentioning are from a time when DC was writing Cass extremely out of character.
> 
> I still don't see how you could see her as an anti hero.



*Yet they happened.*  It's not like they were just proposals.  These were events and characteristics displayed at a time DC had her in an integral plot.  It wasn't like it was Bizarro Batgirl.  It's like saying Cass killed people for no justifiable reason (this is just an analogy not an actual claim) at one time and then people saying she was never a murderer because DC wrote her OOC.  No, I don't buy it.  That's just making excuses.  In my eyes she's not a full heroine the way Supergirl is and she's by no means a villain.  Her attitude and timeline gives me more reason to think she's either a heroine with anti-heroine attributes or just an anti-heroine.  Take in mind I'm not comparing her to nigh-sociopath anti-heroes like Venom.

I understand she was raised more WITHOUT morals, but methodology has existed in the gray areas.  I'm not even factoring in that Babs and Tim had apprehension.  I'm factoring in how her mindset drives her to some questionable things on the side.



> And I feel like Jason Todd helps that role in DC. The morality of DC is so skewed towards the superhero side that pretty much anybody who kills for any reason is almost always labelled a villain. I like Jason Todd because he bucks that trend, and cracks Robinesque one liners while doing it.



So Jason Todd is a possible attempt to be DC's Punisher.

Just as I thought.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> Bingo.  So many people hate the Punisher...
> 
> He's basically the reminder that justice is subjective.



Yep. Frank Castle is a "He who fights monsters" type of character of course he is going to look like a villain when compared to Captain America or Spiderman.

Doesn't mean he is though, he operates in the gray area of morality. You aren't supposed to like everything he does.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 22, 2011)

Outside of stupid mind control BS Cass is as far away from anti-hero as anyone can be. She's he most compassionate Bat with the strongest no-kill rule.


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

Then I must be reading the wrong things when she and Tim duke it out over David Cain...

And for the record anti-hero is not necessarily an insult.  Just to be clear.  I know about One Year Later and I know about Dildodio's statements.  I mean is One Year Later that absurd that it should be written off?  Call it potential heresy, but what's done is done and that can shape a perception.  

But I'll tell you what.  Let's see how she appears, if she does (hopefully), and then I give my thoughts a scrub down.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 22, 2011)

Never said it was an insult, it's just wildly out inconsistent with Cass as I know her.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> So Jason Todd is a possible attempt to be DC's Punisher.
> 
> Just as I thought.



By that logic, isn't any comic hero who kills basically trying to be punisher? 

They have completely different origins, methods, and personalities, so while yea Jason Todd has similarities with Punisher, I don't think its fair to say he's an outright knock off or anything.


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Never said it was an insult, it's just wildly
> out inconsistent with Cass as I know her.



I know you didn't, but I just wanted to be clear.  I've run across fans who treat the term like calling someone a cunt.

I stressed _One Year Later_ which saw her transformed.  Call it what you want but it happened.  External issues might turn her into someone more questionable be it fail or not.  

But I stress again, it's what I analyzed from the origins on.  She's no villain like Darkseid by any means nor is she the anti-hero like that of Frank Castle, Venom, or Deadpool (yes I know...Marvel), but her traits and past give off the aura of the slightest hints that IMO have her morality shift if the right button is pushed.  Conflicts with Nightwing and her driving desire to kill Deathstroke and Cain can also give one the impression.  Later on it changed, esp. post-_Final Crisis_.  Hell, since _One Year Later_ it became rather confusing.

And again, let's see what she's like if she shows up at all.  I can easily give myself the tabula rasa without a problem.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> By that logic, isn't any comic hero who kills basically trying to be punisher?
> 
> They have completely different origins, methods, and personalities.



Um, no.  You yourself however just said that DC treats it that any hero who kills is super bad, so if anything it'd be DC logic to treat every hero doing that like he/she was Frank Castle.  The origins also aren't as important as you'd think, since the motives and philosophies behind it all are rather similar.  They're also both armed to the teeth, possess unimaginable durability, have no qualms killing criminals en masse, the exception being that Jason Todd is actually *liked* by fellow characters (like Arsenal and Starfire) whereas Frank operates essentially as a lone wolf who doesn't belt out as many one-liners.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 22, 2011)

Time to crack into this weeks comics, been looking forward to Red Hood.


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> Time to crack into this weeks comics, been looking forward to Red Hood.



You're gonna love the dynamics. 



Whip Whirlwind said:


> By that logic, isn't any comic hero who kills basically trying to be punisher?
> 
> They have completely different origins, methods, and personalities, so while yea Jason Todd has similarities with Punisher, I don't think its fair to say he's an outright knock off or anything.



All right I'll give you that.  Saying he's a knock-off is unfair.  But whenever I see him either animated or drawn, I keep thinking back to all those Punisher comics I read as a kid and all the crazy shit/firefights Mr. Castle was in with the exception that there's no Castlefamily as compared to Batfamily.  Morals and methodology are entirely questionable with both, sparing very few.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> Um, no.  You yourself however just said that DC treats it that any hero who kills is super bad, so if anything it'd be DC logic to treat every hero doing that like he/she was Frank Castle.  The origins also aren't as important as you'd think, since the motives and philosophies behind it all are rather similar.  They're also both armed to the teeth, possess unimaginable durability, have no qualms killing criminals en masse, the exception being that Jason Todd is actually *liked* by fellow characters (like Arsenal and Starfire) whereas Frank operates essentially as a lone wolf who doesn't belt out as many one-liners.



I'm just saying they're different characters. And while Jason Todd has no qualms killing criminals en masse, he's also willing to deal with the criminal element (to a point) if it suits his ends.

Frank would never make a deal with a citys mob bosses, he'd just murderize them.

Also, Todd's motives aren't as rooted in vengeance and anger as Frank's are. They both share that distaste for criminals, but Todd doesn't let it consume him like Frank does.

I dunno, I just feel like you don't like Jason Todd simply because he shares a few similarities with the Punisher.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> Then I must be reading the wrong things when she and Tim duke it out over David Cain...
> 
> And for the record anti-hero is not necessarily an insult.  Just to be clear.  I know about One Year Later and I know about Dildodio's statements.  *I mean is One Year Later that absurd that it should be written off?*



At the risk of sounding CBG-ish...


YES. DISCONTINUITY.


----------



## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

Frank Castle isn't an anti-hero, he was willing to shoot through a junkie just to get to a drug dealer.

Frank is just rage.

His first movie bottomed out. His two reboots that came after also bottomed out.

His third movie made less than Jonah Hex.

Some Marvel fans don't even realize that there was a 3rd Punisher movie.


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I'm just saying they're different characters. And while Jason Todd has no qualms killing criminals en masse, he's also willing to deal with the criminal element (to a point) if it suits his ends.
> 
> Frank would never make a deal with a citys mob bosses, he'd just murderize them.
> 
> ...



Not entirely.  I'm not a Jason fan because, and I'll fully admit it, I've been more rooted in the Dick Greyson/Tim Drake style of Robin that when I saw Red Hood and subsequent story lines, I had a hard time dealing with his personality.  I was wholly unimpressed by his Robin prior to his "death" where he was almost forced to be edgy with the smoking and questioning authority etc., and where Tim and Dick evolved somewhat, he did in a way with Red Hood that screamed too much angst without the outright anger I saw in others.  There just wasn't really anything that captured my attention in him.  Dick and Tim weren't the apotheosis mind you, but he wasn't even close.

Seeing what he does, yes, drew comparisons to Punisher with yes the difference being Frank doesn't negotiate.  He's also a detective with some subtlety, whereas Frank will just fuck your shit up.  Jason is also just slightly more Machiavellian.  That's it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> Not entirely.  I'm not a Jason fan because, and I'll fully admit it, I've been more rooted in the Dick Greyson/Tim Drake style of Robin that when I saw Red Hood and subsequent story lines, I had a hard time dealing with his personality.  I was wholly unimpressed by his Robin prior to his "death" where he was almost forced to be edgy with the smoking and questioning authority etc., and where Tim and Dick evolved somewhat, he did in a way with Red Hood that screamed too much angst without the outright anger I saw in others.  There just wasn't really anything that captured my attention in him.  Dick and Tim weren't the apotheosis mind you, but he wasn't even close.
> 
> Seeing what he does, yes, drew comparisons to Punisher with yes the difference being Frank doesn't negotiate.  He's also a detective with some subtlety, whereas Frank will just fuck your shit up.  Jason is also just slightly more Machiavellian.  That's it.



Ah okay, well yea I definitely prefer Tim and Dick to Jason, but I still like Jason because he's very different when looked at in the perspective of most DC heroes. 

And I like Jason because he isn't just a force of nature like Frank. He's got more personality to him and to me is more likable. Of course I still love Frank because he is just rage and murder embodied.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Frank Castle isn't an anti-hero, he was willing to shoot through a junkie just to get to a drug dealer.
> 
> Frank is just rage.
> 
> ...



What's the name of this third Punisher movie?


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Ah okay, well yea I definitely prefer Tim and Dick to Jason, but I still like Jason because he's very different when looked at in the perspective of most DC heroes.
> 
> And I like Jason because he isn't just a force of nature like Frank. He's got more personality to him and to me is more likable. Of course I still love Frank because he is just rage and murder embodied.



Well said.  However the change wasn't welcome for me in Robin terms.  It's why I also have a hard time with Damian.  Jason as Red Hood is better than Jason as Robin that's for sure, but hey when you're so used to vanilla ice cream for years trying to stomach chocolate can be done, but it's harder.

See I'm a fan of forces of nature.  They're something so overwhelming in mind and body that transcends some forms of comprehension.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 22, 2011)

Cromer said:


> What's the name of this third Punisher movie?



Punisher:War Zone

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLCDiVNd9fw&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

It's this one.


----------



## Penance (Sep 22, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Punisher:War Zone
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLCDiVNd9fw&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> It's this one.



Mah boi Titus Pullo...


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Frank Castle isn't an anti-hero, he was willing to shoot through a junkie just to get to a drug dealer.
> 
> Frank is just rage.
> 
> ...



I didn't know, and I kind of like Punisher.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> Fucking. Lulzy.



The "GOD DAMMIT CASTLE!" with the arms waving makes me laugh every time. It makes it sound this isn't the first time this kind of thing has happened.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 22, 2011)

hahaha that was great


----------



## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]GMOAWliVH6o[/YOUTUBE]

not enough violence


----------



## Shadow (Sep 22, 2011)

War Zone was great for the lulz.  WHen he shot the kid jumping around in buildings with an RPG that was pure LOLz


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

Yeah upon retrospect I was a bit off with Cass's assessment.  I think there was room, but not as much as originally theorized.  She has a few attributes but not enough for a full-on categorization.

Mea cupla.


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 22, 2011)

Punisher War Zone was absolutely hilarious


----------



## Slice (Sep 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> [YOUTUBE]GMOAWliVH6o[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> not enough violence



I have never watched that movie but i guess now i've seen everything i need to know about it.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 22, 2011)

Wait, that looks awesome, in a Liefeldian 'XTREEME GORE' kind of way. But not awesome enough, frankly.

And are 'Batman' and 'Nightwing' crossing over this early in the reboot? Issue 2?


And I'm just LOLing at Jason's big red bat on the chest. He over his daddy issues then?


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 22, 2011)

He kicks a chair leg through someone's face, what more do you want?


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 22, 2011)

Now that I think about it, Flashpoint happening makes Booster Gold look bad.

He's supposed to protect the timeline, and he fucked up.


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Now that I think about it, Flashpoint happening makes Booster Gold look bad.
> 
> He's supposed to protect the timeline, and he fucked up.



Dude...it was Barry Allen.  None can withstand him.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 22, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Now that I think about it, Flashpoint happening makes Booster Gold look bad.
> 
> He's supposed to protect the timeline, and he fucked up.



Booster got his memory wiped in the last issue of his series, he had no idea Flashpoint happened


----------



## Gunners (Sep 22, 2011)

> And I feel like Jason Todd helps that role in DC. *The morality of DC is so skewed towards the superhero side *that pretty much anybody who kills for any reason is almost always labelled a villain. I like Jason Todd because he bucks that trend, and cracks Robinesque one liners while doing it.


Like when Wonderwoman killed Maxwell Lord?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 22, 2011)

Doesn't seem to be a problem anymore does it? Will be interesting to tally up how many protagonists have already used deadly force after 4 weeks.

Not that it wasn't generally self defense and so on, but there's definitely a shift to that sort of stuff being a lot more acceptable now.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 22, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Like when Wonderwoman killed Maxwell Lord?



Yea, nobody was like "You know it was necessary, he had control of superman", instead it was basically "WHAT THE FUCK YOU MONSTER WONDER WOMAN!"


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 22, 2011)

Red Hood - Was good, great art, funny dialogue, and good introductions, ready for next issue. 

Batwoman - Amazing art, not a really strong start though, fairly interested in Batman's proposal.

Wonder Woman - Average art and confusing dialogue, wasn't feeling it.

Blue Beetle - Very nice art, decent dialogue if a bit too much spanish thrown in there, good start to his origin, looking forward to next issue.

Captain Atom - Good art, but otherwise uninteresting in everyway.

Supergirl - Average all around, not much happened, love Supergirl's new outfit though.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 22, 2011)

Batman: I liked it. It was certainly better then Detective Comics. Not much to talk about. I will be getting the second issue.

Birds of Prey: It was enjoyable. It seemed to go the Justice League route and only have two members of the team. It was fast paced and showed promise.

Blue Beetle: Didn't get it.

Captain Atom: Meh. I'll probably drop this one. It wasn't my cup of tea. 

GLC: Possibly my favorite this week. John and Guy are both characters that I like so it was good to see them just being John and Guy.

Legion: Didn't get it.

Nightwing: Didn't get it.

Red Hood: I'll start by saying this. It was enjoyable and I'll get it again. However, what on Earth did they do to Starfire? I got the book just because I liked Starfire in 52 and the cartoon and it turns out she was the worst part. In 52 she was going to stop at nothing to give Animal Man's wife his jacket. Here, she can't even remember the Teen Titans including the one she almost married (or got married to. I can't remember). What a strange way to take the character.

Supergirl: Didn't get it.

Wonder Woman: Didn't get it. However from what I've read I probably should.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 22, 2011)

I really liked Blue Beetle. Probably because I'm part of the intended latino audience.

I loved the use of spanish, but I definately understand why it's annoying to a non-spanish reader.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 22, 2011)

I didn't have a problem with the spanish, i felt it added to the book...despite the fact of the caption box  saying everything had been translated from spanish lol


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Sep 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> Um, no.  You yourself however just said that DC treats it that any hero who kills is super bad, so if anything it'd be DC logic to treat every hero doing that like he/she was Frank Castle.  The origins also aren't as important as you'd think, since the motives and philosophies behind it all are rather similar.  They're also both armed to the teeth, possess unimaginable durability, have no qualms killing criminals en masse, the exception being that Jason Todd is actually *liked* by fellow characters (like Arsenal and Starfire) whereas Frank operates essentially as a lone wolf who doesn't belt out as many one-liners.



sorry for backtracking but punisher and red hood are almost completely different. for starters punisher only kills killers and child molesters, hood kills anyone that brush him  off wrong.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 22, 2011)

~Gesy~ said:


> sorry for backtracking but punisher and red hood are almost completely different. for starters punisher only kills killers and child molesters, hood kills anyone that brush him  off wrong.



Punisher also kills drug dealers, human traffickers, kidnappers, and rapist.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 22, 2011)

How is it possible to not get Wonder Woman?


----------



## illmatic (Sep 22, 2011)

What's not to get? Its not rocket science.


----------



## Penance (Sep 22, 2011)

illmatic said:


> What's not to get? Its not rocket science.



^Didn't acquire it, is what I think he means...


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 22, 2011)

Taleran said:


> How is it possible to not get Wonder Woman?



I've never been into Wonder Woman that much. I also bought all of the comics I wanted last week today so I decided not to get it. I'll probably get it tomorrow.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 22, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I've never been into Wonder Woman that much.


Everyone should of picked up WW#1

*Newsarama*:  _Azzarello and Chiang’s Wonder Woman is a stunning mesh of mythology and reality, which embodies what Diana is. Wonder Woman #1 is a glorious beginning, and I am grateful that our warrior princess has returned._

*Bleeding Cool*: _Best book of the week by far.
_
*IGN*:  _Azzarello and Chiang have planted the seeds to a mythology and story that has piqued my interest maybe better than any Wonder Woman series I've read before coming out of the gates. That's not to diminish the value and importance of previous Wonder Woman runs, it's just that Azzarello has tapped into a creative well that spins this character in a new light, one that could potentially create a mythology around Wonder Woman worthy of her Trinity rank
_
*Hero Complex*:  _That's right, Wonder Woman is relevant again!
_
*Comic Vine*:   _it's refreshing to finally read a Wonder Woman who is self assured and confident in herself once again. This might be the Wonder Woman series her fans have been waiting for._

*CBR*:  _Standing at the top of the new DCU 52, second perhaps only to “Batwoman” #1, “Wonder Woman” #1 is a must read for any fan.  Azzarello doesn’t spend a lot of time in Diana’s head, or learning about her origin, or fussing with what may (or may not) have come before, and it’s a great decision. We are plunged into the action: gods being manipulative gods, magical protectors, prophesied rivalries, mythological pregnancies, mortals in dire straights, and Diana kicking ass and taking names._


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

After seeing JL's Wonder Woman, I'm willing to take a look at this new one if the reviews of the artwork are as advertised.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 23, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Everyone should of picked up WW#1
> 
> *Newsarama*:  _Azzarello and Chiang?s Wonder Woman is a stunning mesh of mythology and reality, which embodies what Diana is. Wonder Woman #1 is a glorious beginning, and I am grateful that our warrior princess has returned._
> 
> ...



Knowing what the reviewers said would involve reading reviews.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 23, 2011)

Mael said:


> After seeing JL's Wonder Woman, I'm willing to take a look at this new one if the reviews of the artwork are as advertised.



Do you have a few issues of JL we dont?


----------



## Penance (Sep 23, 2011)

If you liked Lord of the Rings or Xena (the first season), read WW #1...


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 23, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Frank Castle isn't an anti-hero, he was willing to shoot through a junkie just to get to a drug dealer.
> 
> Frank is just rage.
> 
> ...



I didn't even know there were three. Two, tops, is what I'd have thought.

LolFrank.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 23, 2011)

BRUTALITY HAS A NEW NAME

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

DAMNIT GRIMM, YOU GOT ME HYPED FOR HAWKMAN


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 23, 2011)

Next week in general is going to be awesome. For starters BRUTALITY HAS A NEW NAME!!!! Hawkman will be awesome. Then there will be Superman, Teen Titans, JL Dark, Aquaman, and The Flash (which better be good without Wally West). Then after those are over I get to look forward to more OMAC. Viva the reboot.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 23, 2011)




----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

LOOK AT HIS KNEE SPIKES


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 23, 2011)

I bet at some point he'll stab someone with the knee spike.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 23, 2011)

Looking forward to Teen Titans, JL Dark, and Flash.

Hawkman if it has Hawkgirl.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I bet at some point he'll stab someone with the knee spike.



I hope it's the first thing he does.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 23, 2011)

Knee impalement


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 23, 2011)

who needs hawkgirl when there ARE BODIES TO BE MAIMED


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

THE ADORABLE HAWKMAN: CUTENESS HAS A NEW NAME


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 23, 2011)

Looks more like The Smug Hawkman. Smugness has a new name.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 23, 2011)

HUGS FOR THE HUG GOD

THE CUDDLY HAWKMAN


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 23, 2011)

How can you hug that thing> Look at its smug facial expression.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 23, 2011)

KAW KAW friend!


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

TO THE EXTREME


----------



## Cromer (Sep 23, 2011)

Blinky said:


> TO THE EXTREME




FOR THE POWAAAAAAAA!


----------



## Cromer (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm not sure who's more hyped for Hawkman in this thread anymore. I thought it was me at first, then I saw Grimm, and now everybody's at it.


----------



## Slice (Sep 23, 2011)

People hate the 90s because of '90s extreme'
Hawkman promises to be 90s extreme
People love it.

What the hell is going on here?


----------



## Cromer (Sep 23, 2011)

Slice said:


> People hate the 90s because of '90s extreme'
> Hawkman promises to be 90s extreme
> People love it.
> 
> What the hell is going on here?



Don't lump me in with the rest of you 90's haters 



I loved the 90's


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

Slice said:


> People hate the 90s because of '90s extreme'
> Hawkman promises to be 90s extreme
> People love it.
> 
> What the hell is going on here?



It's called humour. 

Plus there's nothing wrong with a little extreme every now and then. 



Cromer said:


> I'm not sure who's more hyped for Hawkman in this thread anymore. I thought it was me at first, then I saw Grimm, and now everybody's at it.



Started as a joke for me but now I'm genuinely looking forward to it.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Slice said:


> People hate the 90s because of '90s extreme'
> Hawkman promises to be 90s extreme
> People love it.
> 
> What the hell is going on here?



Retro baby. 

LolHawKhorneman.

Hawkman vs. Kharn.  Place your bets.


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 23, 2011)

Slice said:


> People hate the 90s because of '90s extreme'
> Hawkman promises to be 90s extreme
> People love it.
> 
> What the hell is going on here?



It's a bit different when only one book is doing it, rather than every single title.


----------



## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)

I loved the 90s more than any other era.

HAWKMAN TO THE EXTREME!!!


----------



## Platinum (Sep 23, 2011)

Hawkman everywhere lol.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

He'll be the hot new thing as he collects skulls for the Skull Throne.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 23, 2011)

Slice said:


> People hate the 90s because of '90s extreme'
> Hawkman promises to be 90s extreme
> People love it.
> 
> What the hell is going on here?



lulz **

plus like half the new 52, the 'story pitch' (Hawkman is Indiana Jones as a superhero who uses lethal medieval weaponry) is better than the creative team. I mean, trying to do indiana jones type stories with hawkman is a very cool idea. Too bad I don't think Daniels can execute it.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 23, 2011)

Also we all know its not real 90s until he pulls an Assault Rifle out of nowhere.


I have found especially with this and last week that I need to wait a day and read everything again to really gauge it. It is strange.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

Speaking of assault rifles  



Fuck I love this


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 23, 2011)

Lolacaust


----------



## Taleran (Sep 23, 2011)

This is fucking priceless


----------



## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)

Slice said:


> People hate the 90s because of '90s extreme'



I LOVE THE 90S EXTREME!!!




> Hawkman promises to be 90s extreme
> People love it.



Yes we do. The 90s had attitude and baditude




> What the hell is going on here?



A return to the EXTREME!!!

[YOUTUBE]ulUwGWEHDkI[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Taleran (Sep 23, 2011)

Lets be honest here. DC will never hit the heights of the 90s and we all know this.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

90s superheroes never forgot their plasma cannons.


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 23, 2011)

Oh god that might be the best thing I'll see today


----------



## Cromer (Sep 23, 2011)

"What's today's date?"

"PUNISHMENT DAY! SHUT DA FUK UP AND GET DA CANNON!!!"


----------



## Cromer (Sep 23, 2011)

Taleran said:


> This is fucking priceless



And true in every respect too!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> lulz **
> 
> plus like half the new 52, the 'story pitch' (Hawkman is Indiana Jones as a superhero who uses lethal medieval weaponry) is better than the creative team. I mean, trying to do indiana jones type stories with hawkman is a very cool idea. Too bad I don't think Daniels can execute it.



I think it'll at least be decent. I dunno, one of the things I love most about the relaunch is that most/all of the B team writers seem to be stepping up now that they have more freedom with the titles. So maybe he'll surprise us?

And wow that Blue Beetle cover is awesome. Its funny how there's such a fine line betwene lulz90'sawesome and 90's liefieldterrible.


----------



## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Taleran said:


> Lets be honest here. DC will never hit the heights of the 90s and we all know this.






Beautiful...so beautiful.


----------



## Penance (Sep 23, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Yes we do. The 90s had attitude and baditude



Teenagers with Attitude...

Oh, Punisher...lasmacannon


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _Here..._ 










Taleran said:


> This is fucking priceless





> Scott Lobdell gives his audience, his industry, possibly his entire gender the finger and says “Oh no, you motherfuckers. That’s not your fantasy. Your fantasy is a woman that will literally have sex with you just for existing. No woman with any standards, no matter how low, no matter how forgiving, could possibly be attracted to you, so here’s your new sex object—a brain-damaged goldfish with a rack. And you’re such a scared little boy, so afraid of commitment in even your own pathetic fantasies, that you’ll run away from a ‘clinger’ even if she’s as gorgeous, charming, and supportive as the woman Starfire used to be. You can’t bear even that slight chance that she’ll make you move out of your parents’ basement, get a real job, and make something of yourself. So I’ll cater to that too! Not only doesn’t she want a relationship, she won’t even remember you! That’s what you want in the end, isn’t it? A vagina-shaped goldfish! Look upon your lust, ye nerdy, and despair.”



I love it.  I need someone to write this for Warhammer 40K since I've been sort of growing old of the Adepta Sororitas (and hurr durr Slaanesh) punchlines for some time.  When I create Battle Sisters, the last thing I'm going to make them are bitchy, zealous sluts who whine at Spess Mehrens for the appeasement of the neckbeards and basement-dwellers.  Black Fucking Library is also beyond stale in their presentation.



> You see, Scott Lobdell has seen things. Things man was never meant to see. If you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you. And Scott Lobdell had seen into the very heart of the abyss.



Oh the lines you could make with Chaos. 



> The ‘new’ Starfire was the kind of parody you would usually only see after Glenn Beck had sex with a penguin in front of Stephen Colbert, if Stephen Colbert were possessed by the ghost of Bill Hicks and told he would only get into heaven if he made a grown Libertarian cry with sheer mockery.



Oh mai. 



> So Starfire is not actually a character. She’s what some Hentai Foundry artist with a perverse sexual lust for Dory in Finding Nemo might draw to justify his fetish. She can’t form a relationship with any character, nor can she even remember who someone is. She exists simply to take orders and, well…



Has this dude ever actually read Japanese stuff?  The shit you'd see on that...dear God...

Sad to say though, especially in the case of Wonder Woman, females in DC comics always presented a sort of fetish, particularly that whole bondage bit.  It's a damn hard lot in life and while I have my gripes with certain aspects of feminism or the parodic and retarded step-sister I like to call "Sex and the City Feminism," this is just genuine sympathy for a shafted (no pun intended) audience.  I'm a dude who loves the Juggernaut, Darkseid, Luthor, Flash, Venom, Magneto, Punisher, Gambit, Deadpool, and a ton of male heroes/villains not to mention indulging in the British gaming industry where big and overpowered are as popular as tea in the UK.  But playing catch-up helped me realize there's a lot more to it and that .  After reading Supergirl and being wholly impressed, the Outlaws made me a sad panda with Starfire's apparent retcon.  I mean "Anything else I can do for you, Jason?" sounds more like "I have no internal will nor self-guided memory, human, so please direct me as if I was your external will and then later I will appease you orally and vaginally."  I guess that's one thing that really chaps my ass, complete amnesia.  Why?  It's a crock, a ploy, a poor excuse for writers who didn't have the testicular (or ovarian) fortitude to just say "Sorry but I'm stumped with writer's block atm."  Lobdell did this in stride.  Even if Lobdell made what could be the hottest drawn lesbian scene with the Tameranian and all three Batgirls, it's still a stain and an aesthetic/instinctual cop-out.  I never thought in decades would I actually be saying these sorts of things and defending the platforms that I am right now, but aside from the carnage the Outlaws sorta brought it out.

I just hate these sorts of acts of destruction...along with bad writing.  Biggest pet peeve...bad writing.  I'm not a master, but at least learn fundamentals.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm kind of annoyed at all the sexism complaints. Its not like Starfire lacks free will, she chose to be with the outlaws, and she chose to bang them. If at any moment she did not want to do something, she would make it known by burning their face off.

The amnesia thing is annoying, but its hardly sexist. Just bad writing.

I just feel like all the sexism complaints are just saying that its not okay for Women to have sex with men just for the fun of it.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 23, 2011)

Mael said:


> *Spoiler*: _Here..._
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Then you didn't read this interview, I suppose:



I sorta knew what to expect already, having seen that.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

> Its funny how there's such a fine line betwene lulz90'sawesome and 90's liefieldterrible.



Well it's not _that_ fine a line. I mean a big mecha gorilla with a bunch of machine guns is hilariously awesome, but a generic scowling mercenary with a laser gun is bleh.

The art style makes  a difference too. I hate how Liefeld draws legs. EDIT: oh wait I hate how he draws everything.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I'm kind of annoyed at all the sexism complaints. Its not like Starfire lacks free will, she chose to be with the outlaws, and she chose to bang them. If at any moment she did not want to do something, she would make it known by burning their face off.
> 
> The amnesia thing is annoying, but its hardly sexist. Just bad writing.
> 
> I just feel like all the sexism complaints are just saying that its not okay for Women to have sex with men just for the fun of it.



Bad writing can easily transcend into interpretations of it.  I mean c'mon DC has been rather notorious since the 1940s with sexism, Marvel's Reed Richards being just as awful.  Giving a character who is already renowned for her bazookas and bubbly personality a completely blank mental slate save for how her planet "rolls" and lines that make her look more automaton is just terrible, not just in terms of writing but how a female is presented.  There's a right and a wrong place for calling out sexism.  The Outlaws, particularly with Jason's smarmy lines, is one that hell even I'll hold the BS flag in my hand ready to throw.

@Cromer: No I didn't.  Sadly I'm still new to this reboot game.  I said before, since I joined the Army and getting through college I had taken a big sabbatical with here and there reading, but I remember everything I had read in the 90s on.

And honestly, fellas?  Blood for the Blood God?

Hello challenger...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

I suppose. I guess im just thinking that she's not as blank as she appears in the first issue. I mean she still obviously has a personality, its just that she lacks experiences to kind of flesh it out.

So I'm thinking/hoping that as we see her in action more we'll see more of her personality beyond the fact that she likes to bang.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I'm kind of annoyed at all the sexism complaints. Its not like Starfire lacks free will, she chose to be with the outlaws, and she chose to bang them. If at any moment she did not want to do something, she would make it known by burning their face off.
> 
> The amnesia thing is annoying, but its hardly sexist. Just bad writing.
> 
> I just feel like all the sexism complaints are just saying that its not okay for Women to have sex with men just for the fun of it.



But Kory was *always* a polyamorous character. It's been part of her from day one. What is offputting is the magic 'alien amnesia' that turns her from a character with history and bonds and friendships to well...


A sentient sex toy.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I suppose. I guess im just thinking that she's not as blank as she appears in the first issue. I mean she still obviously has a personality, its just that she lacks experiences to kind of flesh it out.
> 
> So I'm thinking/hoping that as we see her in action more we'll see more of her personality beyond the fact that she likes to bang.



But it sets a magical word called a precedent...and so far it's making me wary.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

Cromer said:


> But Kory was *always* a polyamorous character. It's been part of her from day one. What is offputting is the magic 'alien amnesia' that turns her from a character with history and bonds and friendships to well...
> 
> 
> A sentient sex toy.



Eh, I think thats a bit overdramatic. I mean its not like she's just there to be used. From what I could tell she was the one who was basically made Roy her sex toy, although he obviously wasn't complaining.

But I definitely see what you mean, and It probably would have been better to make her first "personality statement" be something other than sex.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

This is not as bad as the reaction to Action Comics I think. Mostly because in AC it's Superman in his early days and he'll probably grow into his role down the line but people were freaking out that Superman was pretty dickish.

Although I'm not sure how people here feel about new Supes.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 23, 2011)

It wasn't even a personality statement. It was pure blankness ontop of T&A


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

Was there no T&A with her before this ?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

I don't know about that, I mean its not like she lacked personality. You could tell from the start that she was dominant and aggressive, and that she's not a fan of authority.So there was a character there, just not a very well fleshed out one.

Ha and I realize I'm playing devil's advocate here. I feel bad for Lobdell though, and its kind of ridiculous that nobody caught this. I mean between this and Catwoman, you'd think with DC's whole "Fuck yea females!" pitch for the relaunch they'd be sure to make sure this shit doesn't happen.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

I didn't know they were attempting to push female heroes with the relaunch. 

I bet they regret that now.


----------



## Slice (Sep 23, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Don't lump me in with the rest of you 90's haters



Oh i don't hate the 90s. I loved every book that i managed to find (and actually read) during that period - apart from X-men and Spiderman comics it was really hard to find that stuff translated to german.



Ben Grimm said:


> I LOVE THE 90S EXTREME!!!



I don't think anyone else on this board defends the 90s as much as you.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 23, 2011)

I defend the 90s but not _that_ 90s


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

Blinky said:


> I didn't know they were attempting to push female heroes with the relaunch.
> 
> I bet they regret that now.



Well they definitely said that they're trying to appeal to female readers, which is why a lot of the female characters got less revealing costume changes, not to mention the pants/no pants ridiculousness.

And yea I definitely remember the 90s fondly. Particularly the bat family during the 90s.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

I think Wonder Woman kinda needs the pants. She looks pretty dated.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I don't know about that, I mean its not like she lacked personality. You could tell from the start that she was dominant and aggressive, and that she's not a fan of authority.So there was a character there, just not a very well fleshed out one.
> 
> Ha and I realize I'm playing devil's advocate here. I feel bad for Lobdell though, and its kind of ridiculous that nobody caught this. I mean between this and Catwoman, you'd think with DC's whole "Fuck yea females!" pitch for the relaunch they'd be sure to make sure this shit doesn't happen.



Dollar signs say hello...that and maybe either nepotism/"favors" for old time's sake.

It wasn't something to regret to push female characters.  There's just a little ancient Chinese secret called "HAVING A FUCKING GOOD PLAN."


----------



## Slice (Sep 23, 2011)

Read Wonder Woman and Red Hood.

Wonder Woman: Liked the story but the art just didn't do it for me, its something about how the characters are drawn and their facial expressions i can't really name it. What i really liked was the coloring. Starting the story off with a modernization of the greek pantheon is also good, gives her book a direction.

Red Hood: What the hell am i seeing? That "limited attention span" thing is absolutely stupid. How are you going to establish a character that doesn't care (or even remember) past teammates because all humans are the same to her?


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Slice said:


> Read Wonder Woman and Red Hood.
> 
> Wonder Woman: Liked the story but the art just didn't do it for me, starting the story off with a modernization of the greek pantheon is good though. Gives her a direction.
> 
> Red Hood: What the hell am i seeing? That "*limited attention span*" thing is absolutely stupid. How are you going to establish a character that doesn't care (or even remember) past teammates because all humans are the same to her?



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBWrMQVsuak[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

Mael said:


> Dollar signs say hello...that and maybe either nepotism/"favors" for old time's sake.
> 
> It wasn't something to regret to push female characters.  There's just a little ancient Chinese secret called "HAVING A FUCKING GOOD PLAN."



Oh no, I'm just saying that this shit might go over a little smoother if they hadn't made making more realistic female characters one of the bullet points of the relaunch.

Of course, badly written female characters are never a good thing, but its even worse when the publisher claims one of their goals is strongly written female characters.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 23, 2011)

You guys have made me hyped for Hawkman. 

I did love the 90s.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 23, 2011)

I am surprised you are being this defensive of it.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 23, 2011)

So much Hawkman sets. It's beautiful. 

There's a difference between special 90'S EXTREME lulz and generic 90's EXTREME crap.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 23, 2011)

I don't mind having one title that is a tribute to the 90s

The problem is when you overdo it.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I don't mind having one title that is a tribute to the 90s
> 
> The problem is when you overdo it.



Well then let's hold onto our hats and hope Hawkhorneman is the singular entity.

In the mean time, I found WW #1 to be a rather refreshing read.  Call it throwback, but it's one of the few that actually managed to give me a backstory I wanted, not to mention the nice cover artwork that was trying to scream a Frank Miller 300 scene IMO.

Fun to see the Greek Pantheon in a lighter light as well.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

I have no problem with WW aiming for a 300 vibe action wise. Basically stylized over the top greek action. The sword throw was awesome, one of the first times i've ever mentally yelled "Fuck yea wonder woman!"

That and of course, with a woman being the one running around in her underwear the whole experience is whole lot less homoerotic.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I have no problem with WW aiming for a 300 vibe action wise. Basically stylized over the top greek action. The sword throw was awesome, one of the first times i've ever mentally yelled "Fuck yea wonder woman!"
> 
> That and of course, with a woman being the one running around in her underwear the whole experience *is whole lot less homoerotic*.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

Me whenever I hear someone try to defend 300:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4[/YOUTUBE]
Not saying it's a terrible movie, as it is pretty fun(ny), but whenever somebody tries to tell me that movie isn't a little gay...c'mon now.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 23, 2011)

WWs got a good point


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Me whenever I hear someone try to defend 300:
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4[/YOUTUBE]
> Not saying it's a terrible movie, as it is pretty fun(ny), but whenever somebody tries to tell me that movie isn't a little gay...c'mon now.



Oh that much was obvious.

It's Greek after all. 

Lesbian Amazons?  Gay Spartans.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

Do people really deny 300 is homoerotic ? Liking something that's homoerotic doesn't make you gay.


----------



## Slice (Sep 23, 2011)

Catwoman wasnt as awful as the people made it sound.
Nothing spectacular (and nothing worth buying) but far from horrible.

Action Comics started out slow and the pages already seen in the preview did not impress me but it picked up speed and by the halfway mark i was really enjoying it. Cant wait to see how Morrison will handle Luthor in the upcoming issues.

Amimal Man - Now thats how you do a #1 issue. So far the surprise hit of the new 52

Thats it for today, i'll continue my reading tomorrow - i need to get out a bit.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 23, 2011)

Oh the Starfire thing was going to be worse....


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Do people really deny 300 is homoerotic ? Liking something that's homoerotic doesn't make you gay.



Some hardcore bros will. The homophobic variety who praise 300 as being this super awesome EXTREME manly action movie.

[cool story bro]I've gotten into some serious arguments with frat dudes about this. One times omebody said 300 was their favorite movie, and I of course responded with "Yea, I love all the parts where buff oiled up dudes pose in their underwear"

Hilarity/u mad bro? ensued

[/cool story bro]


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Oh the Starfire thing was going to be worse....



Color me shocked.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 23, 2011)

300 is a movie to watch once in the theaters and then never to bring up again and instead talk only about the Frank Miller images

Anything else is wrong.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 23, 2011)

I didn't even think it was that good of a comic book


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 23, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Oh the Starfire thing was going to be worse....



Why bother with the bikini? Why not have her naked?


----------



## Parallax (Sep 23, 2011)

Taleran only likes good art and yet likes Miller art


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Why bother with the bikini? Why not have her naked?



The wittle kids.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 23, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Taleran only likes good art and yet likes Miller art



All Miller art is great art, and new art next week, Holy Terror fuck yeah.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 23, 2011)

I liked his art but post Sin City it doesn't appeal to me anymore

I'll check out Holy Terror though


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

All righty then...onto other news:

1. Hawkman doesn't hold a candle to Kharn the Betrayer. 
2. Out of JL#1, Supergirl #1, WW #1, Batman, Outlaws #1, Green Lantern Corps, Catwoman #1, and Hawkman #1 (pending), I must declare Supergirl the winner for the best action-sequenced writing so far.  Batman was good but I was thrown off here and there.  That and I always enjoyed see Kara Zor-el and the emergence of Supes in the end.
3. I eagerly await the next JL and the emergence of Darkseid.  It's time to see the Lord of Apokilips shine.
4. Toss-up b/w Green/Johnson and Chiang/Azzarello for best team this week.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

Your opinions are news ?


----------



## Parallax (Sep 23, 2011)

but Mael

Hawkman isn't out yet


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 23, 2011)

Parallax said:


> but Mael
> 
> Hawkman isn't out yet



Unfortunately


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Parallax said:


> but Mael
> 
> Hawkman isn't out yet





SageMaster said:


> Unfortunately



I have ESP.  I saw that shit in the future. 

No but seriously...that's a typo.  I meant to say pre-Hawkman.



Blinky said:


> Your opinions are news ?



Yes.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 23, 2011)

I don't even know how I got hyped into this book I really don't

damn yous Grimm


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

If it ends up being mediocre I'm going to cast that crazy Game of Thrones blood curse on Grimm.

Not sure where I'll get the horse though.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

Hawkman went from being something no one cared about to the one that most of us are looking forward to. Well done Grimm.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 23, 2011)

Yeah Grimm if it sucks its all on you

and we will demand reparations


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

I refuse to cave into this Grimm-wank. 

Maybe I'm just too grimdark for it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Yeah Grimm if it sucks its all on you
> 
> and we will demand reparations *blood for the blood god*



Fixed that for you


----------



## Penance (Sep 23, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Hawkman went from being something no one cared about to the one that most of us are looking forward to. Well done Grimm.



That's only because everything else is out, already...


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 23, 2011)

I don't care for Hawkman's quality anymore. I just want to read it.

Hell, I think the more terrible it is, the more I'll love it.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

Well there must be SOME other things in week 4


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Fixed that for you



Faithful.  Enlightened.  Ambitious.  Brethren.

In but a few days, a few mere swipes of the pendulum, we have gathered a DC comic to Khorne...that will be made legend.

Though it was a simpler, weaker voice that illuminated me within my years of comic sabbatical...it was Khorne's messenger...who showed me the true path of fandom, from our pathetic corpse Didio.

And what is the path?  This meaning?  This purpose...to which we gather the skulls of our foes?

It is Hawkman.  There is no meaning, no purpose.  We murder, we read, it is mindless...savagery.  This comic series...is mindless.  

In short time, billions will read.  Innocent, guilty, strong, and weak, honest and deceitful, all of them!  They will scream, they will holler, and for no purpose but that mighty Khorne may revel in their bloodlust!

And united, in this issue of Hawkman, first, and greatest...we...shall at long last...be free!!!

*BLOOD...FOR THE BLOOD GOD!  SKULLS...FOR THE SKULL THRONE!  LET...THE GALAXY...BUUUUUUURRRN!*


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 23, 2011)

Taleran said:


> This is fucking priceless



Wow, I feel stupider for reading that. All sound and fury, signifying nothing. 

A better article which further details Scott Lobdell's sexism:



To finish off the week...

*Red Hood and the Outlaws*: Wow. This is a lot of huff and puff over nothing. This is a mediocre comic which, in all honesty, just did nothing for me. Starfire's thing is odd, and I'm sure there's more behind her "amnesia" than is being said, but I'm just not interested in finding out.

*Captain Atom*: I enjoyed this one, though it didn't come off as fantastic to me. Definitely a unique look, and I'm interested in the character.

*DC Universe Presents*: It's a good Deadman story. If you are interested in Deadman, you'll be interested in it. If you aren't... well, you might want to give it a shot anyways.


----------



## Cash (Sep 23, 2011)

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Thread successfully 40Ked.

Thanks Grimm.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 23, 2011)

Cash said:


> BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!



you cant say that while wearing a loli avatar smh


----------



## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)

What have I done?


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

Opened our eyes.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> What have I done?





/40K...for now


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 23, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> What have I done?



magic            .


----------



## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)

> "Savage Hawkman" writer Tony Daniel then explained his new take on the character to the audience. "How savage am I making him? Well, he's going to be chopping people's heads off, dismembering people -- all the good stuff. I mean, the guy has an axe, a mace, a shield that has three big spikes coming out of it. He's not going to be tickling his opponents! The nature of the character's design just says it all, but what that means is that he's going to have some pretty intense foes."






Chopping off heads and dismembering people, don't let me down Daniel


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Chopping off heads and dismembering people, don't let me down Daniel



It's like someone hired a Black Library writer...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 23, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Chopping off heads and dismembering people, don't let me down Daniel



Am I the only one seeing Daniel giggling like a little school girl while he's doing this book?


----------



## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)

Cover of Savage Hawkman #4


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 23, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Chopping off heads and dismembering people, don't let me down Daniel



I think it'd be hilarious if Daniels only had Hawkman fight things that could be dismembered without killing them. Suddenly Hawkman's villains all turn into Zombies, Durlans, and Robots.

DO IT! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Am I the only one seeing Daniel giggling like a little school girl while he's doing this book?



Nope, you're not alone.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Am I the only one seeing Daniel giggling like a little school girl while he's doing this book?



Of course not. 

I see both him and Tan just cackling like jackals. Also, plenty of Guinness "Brilliant!" moments.


----------



## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I think it'd be hilarious if Daniels only had Hawkman fight things that could be dismembered without killing them. Suddenly Hawkman's villains all turn into Zombies, Durlans, and Robots.
> 
> DO IT! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!



That would make me RAGGGGGEEEE!!!!


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 23, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> That would make me RAGGGGGEEEE!!!!



I believe Tony Daniels response would be something along the lines of


*
You have nothing, nothing to threaten me with. Nothing to do with all your strength. *


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> That would make me RAGGGGGEEEE!!!!


----------



## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)




----------



## SageMaster (Sep 23, 2011)

That interview made me sure THE SAVAGE HAWKMAN will be the best of the new 52.


----------



## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I believe Tony Daniels response would be something along the lines of
> 
> 
> *
> You have nothing, nothing to threaten me with. Nothing to do with all your strength. *



I don't like being trolled...he said chopping heads and dismemberment.

He wouldn't like me if I was angry.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2011)

ITT: Machismo on Broadway.

Sorry, Gabz.   I'll make it up to you somehow.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

I wonder if Hawkgirl will be his squeeze. or will BRUTALITY HAVE A NEW DAME ?


----------



## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)

Blinky said:


> I wonder if Hawkgirl will be his squeeze. or will BRUTALITY HAVE A NEW DAME ?



Read Hawk and Dove #1, Brightest Day happened, so I'm guessing Hawkgirl is now the wind.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 23, 2011)

PLAYING ROUGH HAS A NEW NAME!!


----------



## Blinky (Sep 23, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Read Hawk and Dove #1, Brightest Day happened, so I'm guessing Hawkgirl is now the wind.



I don't think I'll miss her honestly.


----------



## Slice (Sep 23, 2011)

Was Hawkgirl even that popular outside the JL cartoon? I honestly never read a book of the Hawkpeople before.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 23, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Hawkman went from being something no one cared about to the one that most of us are looking forward to. Well done Grimm.





Parallax said:


> Yeah Grimm if it sucks its all on you
> 
> and we will demand reparations



Yeah I'm expecting no less than Robocop 1 style brutality from this now.


----------



## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)

Hawkman maybe getting a movie soon.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

Blinky said:


> I don't think I'll miss her honestly.



I read somewhere that Daniels was scratching all the reincarnation stuff, all the hawkgirl/hawkman cursed romance stuff, and the thanagarian stuff.

Which I am COMPLETELY fine with. Indy+wings/axe/mace works much better imo.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 23, 2011)

I want some armor spikes slashing carotides after Hawkman seems down and battered.

Acid mutants and people exploding while gloating, too.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

Hawkman should be a combination of that song Bodies "LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR! x 12783921" and the beginning of that one crappy nuMetal song that goes OOH AH AH AH AH!

EDIT: I love the internet

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RUB2D1QX28[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 23, 2011)

Haha crappy it might be, but that damn Disturbed song could be catchy.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 23, 2011)




----------



## Slice (Sep 23, 2011)

That music isn't very good - and i don't think it fits Hawkman at all.


----------



## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)

This would be Hawkman's music
[Youtube]DkkYxmMj-Oo[/Youtube]


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

Slice said:


> That music isn't very good - and i don't think it fits Hawkman at all.



Well no, but I want that tone of over the top ridiculous carnage when it comes to the fight scenes.


----------



## Vegeta (Sep 23, 2011)

So you guys just got me excited about Hawkman.


----------



## Bender (Sep 23, 2011)

So I got around to reading Justice League. 

Not bad, not bad at all. Hal Jordan with an actual personality .


----------



## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)

Vegeta said:


> So you guys just got me excited about Hawkman.



Yes, embrace the bloodlust.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 23, 2011)

we should add Hawkman to the poll

it's become its own "line" at this point.


----------



## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)

Aquaman and Hawkman both on the same day.

My favorite DC character gets another run and I get my fill of 90s extreme.

Life is good.

Though I am hoping Johns does not screw with Aquaman like he did the last time.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 23, 2011)

Vegeta said:


> So you guys just got me excited about Hawkman.



Your set needs to pay tribute to the blood god. 

Next week looks amazingly awesome.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 23, 2011)

Johns has said in interviews it will be about how the world thinks Aquaman is uncool & stuff


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 23, 2011)

I think w're going to find that Aquaman is now Gatorademan because everyone knows Gatorade is better.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 23, 2011)

So has anybody read the preview to Justice League Dark? It looks...intentionally badly written.



MrChubz said:


> I think w're going to find that Aquaman is now Gatorademan because everyone knows Gatorade is better.



H20!


----------



## illmatic (Sep 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So has anybody read the preview to Justice League Dark? It looks...intentionally badly written.
> 
> 
> 
> H20!


Justice League Dark #1 Exclusive Preview (IGN)


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So has anybody read the preview to Justice League Dark? It looks...intentionally badly written.
> 
> 
> 
> H20!



[YOUTUBE]Um0tEvQ5gVM[/YOUTUBE]
Ben Grimm = Adam Sandler
Johns = Henry Winkler


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 24, 2011)

Parallax said:


> we should add Hawkman to the poll
> 
> it's become its own "line" at this point.



The option should read BRUTALITY or just be a pic of some bloody clumps.


----------



## Bender (Sep 24, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Justice League Dark #1 Exclusive Preview (IGN)



The comment on IGN comment page for article here:



> Justice League Dark. Dark Avengers.
> JLI, JLA. Secret/New/Mighty Avengers.
> Have we run out of team names, or don't have the guts to publish w/o that magical name on the cover?



sum up my thoughts exactly.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 24, 2011)

I never read IGN comments anymore.

The format alone is an eyesore to me.

Dark Avengers was cool though.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 24, 2011)

Dark Avengers was great until Senty out-Molecule Man'd Molecule Man. Oh and they lot points because Doom wasn't the one to defeat them. 

About the comment:
*JL
JLI
JLD.*
The monsters with Frankenstein
Suicide Squad
Outlaws
Birds of Prey
Teen Titans
The GL corps team
The team of lanterns that Kyle is leading
Teams from other books I haven't read/won't read/am forgetting.

3 out of a bunch isn't too bad.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 24, 2011)

yeah 3 out of 52 sounds like bitching for the sake of bitching


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 24, 2011)

Charcan said:


> I never read IGN comments anymore.
> 
> The format alone is an eyesore to me.
> 
> Dark Avengers was cool though.



I only read IGN comments to see Petes own the trolls.

And what the hell is up with Superman's face in Dark?


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 24, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Dark Avengers was great until Senty out-Molecule Man'd Molecule Man. Oh and they lot points because Doom wasn't the one to defeat them.



I liked that, lolopinions. In fact I liked everything about the Sentry's systematic status quo dismantling, except treating his junkie past revelation as if it was something new when Jenkins had already showed it years before. In fact it's dangling plot threads or stuff that led nowhere that were my minor complaints about it.

And Doom had already acted like he knew Osborn would end up biting more than he could chew and sabotaging himself, he was more interested about chumming it up with Namor during that first Cabal meeting.

Anyway, how's that brutality new naming coming along.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 24, 2011)

First look at reboot Cyborg.


----------



## Bender (Sep 24, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> I only read IGN comments to see Petes own the trolls.



Petes on IGN? 



> And what the hell is up with Superman's face in Dark?



More like what the fucks up with his hair. He looks like Titans of tomorrow Connor/Superboy.


----------



## Slice (Sep 24, 2011)

Batman 1 - Solid start and i really liked the art on this. As usual with Snyder a bit heavy on the narration boxes. I take it its just because of the artist but compared to bruce the three "Robins" looked tiny. If Dick is really 21 now he shouldn't be that much smaller than Bruce.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 24, 2011)

So my dead tree comics are in, and here's what I've got to say:

Red Hood ...:

Nightwing: Could have been worse, could have been better.

Batman: Why is Dick looking 16 years old? And do we really need crossovers this early in the reboot?

Batwoman: Pleasantly surprised that the lack of Rucka hasn't made this book much worse. Will follow.

Blue Beetle: THIS ROCKED IN AN UNIMAGINABLY AWESOME (non-BRUTALITY!!!) WAY!



So far I've got 14 books as definites to continue reading.


----------



## Glued (Sep 24, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> [YOUTUBE]Um0tEvQ5gVM[/YOUTUBE]
> Ben Grimm = Adam Sandler
> Johns = Henry Winkler



Gatorade is an inferior clone of Water just as Artie Joe was an inferior clone of Aquaman.



illmatic said:


> Johns has said in interviews it will be about how the world thinks Aquaman is uncool & stuff



Well at least that's better than trying to replace him with a clone.

I actually was reading Supergirl the other day. Her super hearing kicked into gear and one of the voices she hears is, "I don't talk to fish."


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 24, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> I only read IGN comments to see Petes own the trolls.



Ha me too! I'll scroll down, see some dumbass post and  be like "Damn, that's almost worth registering just to own that person"

Then I scroll down to the next post, and see that lulzworthy Doc Hurt icon, and I know that I need not worry.


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2011)

Oh joy the weekend!  That means comic scouring! 

And LSAT.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 24, 2011)

Ha. I can't help myself. 

Here to post these:


----------



## Glued (Sep 24, 2011)

Is it just me, or does catwoman look like an aviator


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 24, 2011)

Finally read Swamp Thing, JLI, and Green Arrow. 

Swamp Thing: Actually pretty good, I would've liked to see more of Swamp Thing though. Mass amount of animals simply dying without a cause is pretty creepy. It was also nice to see Modern Superman. 

JLI: Not bad, not good per se. Glad they kept the humorous aspect and I hope Guy comes back. Him and Booster together is always dope. Rocket Red is also epic.

Green Arrow: Same as JLI. I like that girl and boy who assisted Ollie, but geez, do his new villains look pretty lame. Hopefully they're just punks like the lowlife he busted at the beginning.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 24, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Who cares Animal Man hasn't been relevant since circa 1990





Petes12 said:


> Animal Man really?
> 
> So much for that diversity eh?



Bet you guys feel differently now eh?


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2011)

Catwoman's goggles do look rather Amelia Earhart...


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 24, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Bet you guys feel differently now eh?



Well I didnt expect the spiritual morrison successor. if the story weren't tied to his family like it is, or any of that, if it'd just been a straight superhero book, i'd have said let vixen have it.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 24, 2011)

Animal Man was pretty interesting unlike Captain Atom.


----------



## mali (Sep 24, 2011)

I hope Booster Gold screws Godiva


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 24, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> Animal Man was pretty interesting unlike Captain Atom.



Captain Atom was interesting, just not much happened. 



Mali said:


> I hope Booster Gold screws Godiva



Oh he will.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Sep 24, 2011)

Hawkman seems pretty cool. If they go the Wolverine route with him it would definitely pique my interests.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 24, 2011)

I was expecting great stuff from Captain Atom. Instead all I got was the typical, 'you can't use your powers but you need to' storyline. I also hated that douchey scientist guy.


Edit: How was Resurrection Man. I'm thinking of getting it.


----------



## Glued (Sep 24, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> Hawkman seems pretty cool. If they go the Wolverine route with him it would definitely pique my interests.



Maybe they'll graft Nth metal straight to his skeleton.

Hell have nth metal bones, nth metal armor and nth metal weapons.

Yo Hawkman we heard like nth metal so we just put nth metal on your nth metal so you can nth metal while you nth metal.


----------



## mali (Sep 24, 2011)

Ressurection Man was pretty tame


----------



## Blinky (Sep 24, 2011)

I liked Ressurection Man. It's a pretty cool concept and I liked the art.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 24, 2011)

I just got it and Wondy. We'll see how they are.


----------



## Glued (Sep 24, 2011)

Cover for Aquaman 4

*Spoiler*: __ 








Aquaman 3


Aquaman 2



Murlocs everywhere.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 24, 2011)

Sad that from the covers it would seem Mera is getting more proper face time in her husband's comic than some *ahem* other women are getting in their own books?


----------



## Glued (Sep 24, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Sad that from the covers it would seem Mera is getting more proper face time in her husband's comic than some *ahem* other women are getting in their own books?



You mean like Wonder Woman?

How are Batwoman, Batgirl, The Birds and Catwoman getting treated?


----------



## Cromer (Sep 24, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> You mean like Wonder Woman?
> 
> How are Batwoman, Batgirl, The Birds and Catwoman getting treated?



Perhaps I should have said 'respect' rather than 'face time'. And you know who I *CatwomanahemahemahemStarfire* mean.


----------



## Glued (Sep 24, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Perhaps I should have said 'respect' rather than 'face time'. And you know who I *CatwomanahemahemahemStarfire* mean.



Mera has always been useful to Aquaman. When she's not trying to kill him.

Aquaman loves her. Even in the Peter David run.



I was always glad that Mera wasn't really objectified except for one particular cover during david's run and wore a bikini throughout Erik Larsen's run.

Though DC does like to turn her into nutter from time to time.

I'm really hoping that Atrocitus forgot about Mera. Remember how he made a construct of her by accident.



Its easy to see whats on Atrocitus's brain


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 24, 2011)

Aquaman looks pretty badass too. Man, I want it to be wednesday now


----------



## Glued (Sep 25, 2011)

Oh yeah today September 25, it was on this day, 70 years ago in 1941 that Aquaman was first created.

Happy Birthday Aquaman.

If only there were still Nazis in the world for him to punch.


----------



## mali (Sep 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Mera has always been useful to Aquaman. When she's not trying to kill him.
> 
> Aquaman loves her. Even in the Peter David run.
> 
> ...



Atrocitus needs teach the other RL's the heirarchy, meaning he needs to show them whose boss.


----------



## Glued (Sep 25, 2011)

Yeah, however with Krona dead, Atrocitus's rage seems to be waning.


----------



## mali (Sep 25, 2011)

I seriously lold when Atrocitus was talking about Krona, their _relationship_ is so dysfunctional


----------



## Glued (Sep 25, 2011)

Mali said:


> I seriously lold when Atrocitus was talking about Krona, their _relationship_ is so dysfunctional



Krona is dead, Atrocitus missed his chance for revenge thanks to Hal.

If anything, Atrocitus should use Hal as an excuse to vent his rage. He should hate Hal Jordan for taking his revenge from him and direct his hate at Hal.

This would supply his ring with the power it needs.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Oh yeah today September 25, it was on this day, 70 years ago in 1941 that Aquaman was first created.
> 
> Happy Birthday Aquaman.
> 
> If only there were still Nazis in the world for him to punch.



That's a day before my birthday


----------



## Penance (Sep 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Krona is dead, Atrocitus missed his chance for revenge thanks to Hal.
> 
> If anything, Atrocitus should use Hal as an excuse to vent his rage. He should hate Hal Jordan for taking his revenge from him and direct his hate at Hal.
> 
> This would supply his ring with the power it needs.



Nope.  He has to be Awntee-Hero...


----------



## Mael (Sep 25, 2011)

Oh mai...this became a sticky.


----------



## Glued (Sep 25, 2011)

Oh boy check what they were planning to do to Aquaman before the collar. Crab Armor. 



I think I prefer Crab Armor to just a collar for a redesign.



SageMaster said:


> That's a day before my birthday



Well tomorrow I shall tell you happy birthday.


----------



## Glued (Sep 25, 2011)

Penance said:


> Nope.  He has to be Awntee-Hero...



But he needs rage to power his ring.

How do you make Atrocitus angry. His been mad for centuries because of Krona, who is now gone. He needs a reason to be pissed.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm sure they'll find a new reason to power his RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!


----------



## Glued (Sep 25, 2011)

Atrocitus vs Hawkman: Rage Battle!!!


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Atrocitus vs Hawkman: Rage Battle!!!



THE WORLD WOULD SHATTER FROM THEIR EPIC BATTLE

MILLIONS OF INNOCENTS DYING AS COLLATERAL DAMAGE

THE BLOOD GOD WOULD BE PLEASED


----------



## Cromer (Sep 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Atrocitus vs Hawkman: Rage Battle!!!



BLODD FOR THE BLODD GOD!!!


SKULLS FOR THE HAWK THRONE!!!


----------



## Glued (Sep 25, 2011)

JUST BLEED!!!


----------



## firefist (Sep 25, 2011)

so why is everybody eagerly awaiting hawkman's release?


----------



## Glued (Sep 25, 2011)

Goobfist said:


> so why is everybody eagerly awaiting hawkman's release?



Because BRUTALITY HAS A NEW NAME!!!

...and because in the interview the writer said Hawkman would be dismembering bodies and chopping off heads.

Plus check out the cover design. Spikes on his hands, spikes on his shoulders, spikes on his knees....

It just screams with anger and rage.

90s rage, which I happen to be a fan of.

There is also the possibility of it becoming so bad and mindless that it becomes awesome.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Oh boy check what they were planning to do to Aquaman before the collar. Crab Armor.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I prefer Crab Armor to just a collar for a redesign.



That design looked awesome, I'm sad they didn't keep it.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 25, 2011)

the sticky hawkman


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 25, 2011)

Why oh why didn't they keep the crab armour


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 25, 2011)

Whimsy said:


> Why oh why didn't they keep the crab armour



A note at the back of Justice League said that it was to detailed and it would be difficult on the artist to draw it contiuously.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 25, 2011)

huh? no it said it was too crusty and not regal enough for him


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 25, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> huh? no it said it was too crusty and not regal enough for him



Did it? must have fogotten the wording then.

How'd I confuse Crusty with Detailed...


----------



## Cromer (Sep 25, 2011)

It looked too finicky for an ongoing, anyway.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 25, 2011)

Goobfist said:


> so why is everybody eagerly awaiting hawkman's release?



Ben Grimm managed to get a bunch of us hyped and now the snowball is getting bigger.


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Sep 25, 2011)

What is Captain Marvel up to in the new reboot? Is Billy back or is it still Freddie?


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 25, 2011)

I see you commenting on that shitty CBR wonder woman review Petes


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 25, 2011)

In Brightest Day! said:


> What is Captain Marvel up to in the new reboot? Is Billy back or is it still Freddie?



Nobody knows, there's been no announcments pertaining to The Marvel Family or even Black Adam at all.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 25, 2011)

In Brightest Day! said:


> What is Captain Marvel up to in the new reboot? Is Billy back or is it still Freddie?



They don't exist anymore.


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Sep 25, 2011)

Wha... ? They can't be flat out gone. Captain Marvel is like one of the most iconic characters in comics ever.

And Black Adam is just a bad ass.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 25, 2011)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Wha... ? They can't be flat out gone. Captain Marvel is like one of the most iconic characters in comics ever.
> 
> And Black Adam is just a bad ass.



Nah I'm just joking, nobody knows.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 25, 2011)

I completely forgot about the Marvel family. I find it strange that a lot of seemingly random characters (like Catwoman or Deathstroke, or someone) got a book but Captain Marvel hasn't gotten a mention.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 25, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I completely forgot about the Marvel family. I find it strange that a lot of seemingly random characters (like Catwoman or Deathstroke, or someone) got a book but Captain Marvel hasn't gotten a mention.



I've heard rumors that DC's editorial staff doesn't like Captain Marvel...but I don't know if that's actually true or not


----------



## Glued (Sep 25, 2011)

He'll be bought in once Superman needs a punching bag or if DC wants to use black Adam.

Who knows, Hawkman and Black Adam may run into each other sooner or later


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 25, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I completely forgot about the Marvel family. I find it strange that a lot of seemingly random characters (like Catwoman or Deathstroke, or someone) got a book but Captain Marvel hasn't gotten a mention.



What I've heard is not wanting to deal with copyright issues.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 25, 2011)

When was the last time Captain Marvel was cool? Yeah...


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Oh boy check what they were planning to do to Aquaman before the collar. Crab Armor.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I prefer Crab Armor to just a collar for a redesign.



They should've went with the crab armor. 

That or a epic beard of awesome. :beard



Goobfist said:


> so why is everybody eagerly awaiting hawkman's release?



The power of Ben Grimm.



MrChubz said:


> I completely forgot about the Marvel family. I find it strange that a lot of seemingly random characters (like Catwoman or Deathstroke, or someone) got a book but Captain Marvel hasn't gotten a mention.



I can somewhat understand Deathstroke and Catwoman getting books, they have decent sized fanbases. I was really suprised by stuff like Men of War and OMAC getting series. Although, OMAC was really good.


----------



## Glued (Sep 25, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> When was the last time Captain Marvel was cool? Yeah...



[YOUTUBE]RJJGjjbjxA0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Blinky (Sep 25, 2011)

I liked him in Kingdom Come. 

The preview for Superman #1 seems quite... odd.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 25, 2011)

Blinky said:


> I liked him in Kingdom Come.
> 
> *The preview for Superman #1* seems quite... odd.


Link                   ?


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 25, 2011)

Blinky said:


> I liked him in Kingdom Come.
> 
> The preview for Superman #1 seems quite... odd.



The writing is super old school.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 25, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Link                   ?







Sephiroth said:


> The writing is super old school.



maybe it's all the narration or that I only glanced at it but it seems a bit confused.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 25, 2011)

its awful and DC should've gotten a real writer.

narration boxes describing exactly what's happening on panel, how does that get through editing?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 25, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> The writing is super old school.



I've heard it described as silver agey and not in a good way.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 25, 2011)

90% of that narration was redundant. I doubt it'll be a book breaker though.


----------



## Glued (Sep 25, 2011)

Would DC comics roast Jimmy Olsen, nah.

The world needs Jimmy.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 25, 2011)

A world without Jimmy ain't a world worth saving.


----------



## Glued (Sep 25, 2011)

I remember the Supergirl Annual recently where she leads an army of robot Jimmys against an evil demoness.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 25, 2011)

jimmy sucks

why sticky this?


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 25, 2011)

Most popular thread of this section I suppose.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 25, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> jimmy sucks
> 
> why sticky this?





Who sucks? 

Seriously though, Gates and Spencer made Jimmy Olsen awesome. I wish he was still that cool in the new 52.


----------



## Glued (Sep 25, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Who sucks?
> 
> Seriously though, Gates and Spencer made Jimmy Olsen awesome. I wish he was still that cool in the new 52.



Hell yeah, Jimmy rulez!!!


----------



## Penance (Sep 25, 2011)

Jimmy and All Star Superman Jimmy...


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 25, 2011)

I still can't get over Giant Turtle Jimmy Olsen defeating Darkseid. Sometimes when I think about it I want to punch a DC employee in the face. Doesn't matter which one.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 25, 2011)

Giant Turtle Olsen beating Darkseid?!

That sounds like one of those things that are so incredibly ridiculous that become incredibly awesome.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 25, 2011)

It was in Countdown so no.


----------



## Penance (Sep 25, 2011)

It looks like I won't hate Nu-Superman #1...


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 25, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Who sucks?
> 
> Seriously though, Gates and Spencer made Jimmy Olsen awesome. I wish he was still that cool in the new 52.



no he's fine as a normal friend of clark's or whatever. but as soon as they try to make him some kind of action hero he instantly is retarded.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 25, 2011)

burned through series 4 of doctor who pretty fast. but honestly it was only ok. Journey's End was kinda the worst finale so far. I've just got this 'season 4.5' then I'll be done with Doctor Tennant I guess? The Library episodes were cool


----------



## illmatic (Sep 25, 2011)

Doctor Who general thread is


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 25, 2011)

oops. meant to put that in the convo thread. i'm not going to a doctor who thread there'll be spoilers


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 25, 2011)

Spoiler alert: Dr. Who's girlfriend cheats on him with Dr. Who's boyfriend.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Dr. Who...here?  Really?

Also, Jimmy Olsen had made himself surprisingly interesting fighting Darkseid.  I do hope this isn't some vain attempt to try to "de-quirk" him.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> no he's fine as a normal friend of clark's or whatever. but as soon as they try to make him some kind of action hero he instantly is retarded.



Jimmy should be portrayed as someone who's hung around with superman for years, and managed to stay alive through a combo of luck and smarts and meet a lot of cool people.

Basically how he was portrayed in Spencer's action back up.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 26, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> What I've heard is not wanting to deal with copyright issues.



It's not copyright issues insomuch as it's difficult to find a good place for Captain Marvel in a universe that has Superman already. If you've looked at him for the last couple years, no one really knows where to place him or how to make him special/different than Supes other than him being nicer. Hopefully they'll find where he belongs, but I'm not that convinced they _ever_ will.


----------



## Glued (Sep 26, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> That's a day before my birthday



Happy Birthday Sagemaster.


----------



## Glued (Sep 26, 2011)

Anyways is anyone here going to be Reading All Star Western with Jonah da Hex and him adventuring in classic Gotham

I reckon id otta be a purdy good readin.

Yippy Ky Yay


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Anyways is anyone here going to be Reading All Star Western with Jonah da Hex and him adventuring in classic Gotham
> 
> I reckon id otta be a purdy good readin.
> 
> Yippy Ky Yay



Definitely.

Justin and Jimmy can still write badass western stories, and I can't wait to see what they do with characters besides Hex.


----------



## Gunners (Sep 26, 2011)

Has Wally's history with the Teen Titans been erased?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Has Wally's history with the Teen Titans been erased?



A better question, and the answer is still, who knows?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

I said I posted in the wrong thread Mael. 

I'm not even sure DC knows what they're going to do with Wally yet.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I said I posted in the wrong thread Mael.
> 
> I'm not even sure DC knows what they're going to do with Wally yet.



Since Barry Fucking Allen is in the house, might as well make him quasi-TT or at the least close to assuming the mantle.  Origins of WW Flash then maybe?

Dunno.  I mean it's hard to really do this and NOT fuck it up.  One could just make him a separate entity instead of forcefully insert him into a potential Kid Flash/JL clusterfuck.  And yes I say this with a slight bias towards Wally over any other speedster.

I'll just inevitably want Linda and the twins back.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

I'd be fine with Wally being established as the guy who carried the torch when barry died but is now focusing on raising his family. Basically playing Max Mercury to Iris's impulse. Its a decent kind of limbo that won't make it super complex to bring him back into the flash fold.

Then later down the line during some big story Barry is in dire straits and Wally dons a new costume and codename to help out. Although honestly I'd be fine with him being another Flash but with a different costume and covering Keystone City.

Brett Booth actually did a pretty cool redesign for Wally:


There's also a blue version of it somewhere.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Dick is 21, Roy is 19. Wally isn't old enough to have a family.

He can leave to focus on school


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Dick is 21, Roy is 19. Wally isn't old enough to have a family.
> 
> He can leave to focus on school



Make Wally a little bit older (23-25, play up his blue collarness, and make Iris a superspeed toddler (2-3 years old) instead of a superspeed 8-10 year old.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

Thoughts on Teen Titans?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Make Wally a little bit older (23-25, play up his blue collarness, and make Iris a superspeed toddler (2-3 years old) instead of a superspeed 8-10 year old.



sounds awful :S


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

Ha, love the opening scene. Perfect way to showcase Bart's huge amount of booksmarts as well as his often inability to properly apply that knowledge.

Also, Tim chilling in a lex tower? Nice. 

Seems Bart might be the first kid flash, but that's not concrete. Oh and the raven and miss martian cameos were pretty cool.



Petes12 said:


> sounds awful :S



What's so awful about it? Keep in mind im not talking about a pitch for an ongoing or anything, just a few panels in flash giving him a fairly comfortable limbo and status quo.

I don't think Wally should have a book just yet, or even be in action just yet, but Wally fans deserve some kind of update on what's up with him.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

superspeed toddler.

I mean, you know I think casting flash as DC's fantastic four is pretty much the worst idea ever. That hasn't changed.


Booth's art still bugs me a bit.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

More like fantastic 2. Linda would just be Linda and Jai would just be Jai, although the seeds would still be there for him to resent the speedsters in his family if they wanted to go down that route later.

And again, this wouldn't be a book. I'm just saying, "Wally used to be the flash, but now barry's back and he's focusing on his family instead of being a superhero" is better than "Wally is....uhh...yea no comment"


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

West Family as the Fan Four?

Tell me you're joking.  That's a horrid comparison.

Liked seeing Meg there, but Raven?  Eh...never really had strong feelings for Raven.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> I'd be fine with Wally being established as the guy who carried the torch when barry died but is now focusing on raising his family. Basically playing Max Mercury to Iris's impulse. Its a decent kind of limbo that won't make it super complex to bring him back into the flash fold.
> 
> Then later down the line during some big story Barry is in dire straits and Wally dons a new costume and codename to help out. Although honestly I'd be fine with him being another Flash but with a different costume and covering Keystone City.
> 
> ...



Dat art. 

But the idea is perfect.  Hate to harp on it yet again but I felt the best thing going for Wally West in terms of some legit development was Linda Park and the kids.  It took the flirtatious and hotshot Wally West and had him get some good and hard reality checks, Linda being that "beacon" above all others especially with that scene from Infinite Crisis.  If the twins were to come back Impulse and all, at least provide some resolution for poor Jai.  Impulse should be there since I had yet to find a negative thing about her, the eager speedster with Dad around.  However it does need to be Keystone, and even so you could also make it separate from the JL. 

I might be pushing the envelope a little more with Wally, Whip, but I'd be more than willing to wait if it meant I can see just what the hell happened to the West family and Wally himself and see if he can be placed exactly as I felt he should atm, a husband and father.  I don't want Wally Kid Flash...I got enough of that even without watching Young Justice.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

Mael said:


> Liked seeing Meg there, but Raven?  Eh...never really had strong feelings for Raven.



Me neither, but you know there are fans out there getting their panties in a twist that just want to know if she's alive or existent or whatever. So I still think its a nice gesture to the fans



> I might be pushing the envelope a little more with Wally, Whip, but I'd be more than willing to wait if it meant I can see just what the hell happened to the West family and Wally himself and see if he can be placed exactly as I felt he should atm, a husband and father.  I don't want Wally Kid Flash...I got enough of that even without watching Young Justice.



Exactly, I feel like most fans just want to know what his situation is. Wally is hands down my favorite flash, but I know the time isn't right for 2 flash books right now.

But I think down the road they could reuse the impulse scenario (experienced speedster trying to reign in super out of control speedster) for a light hearted flash book. 

But yea, fantastic flash 4 wasn't a good idea. However having just a speedster dad and a speester daughter wouldn't be a bad idea.

@Petes, yea the art isn't fantastic. However when it comes to a Teen Titans comic I'm happy with decent ha.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

I haven't read a ton of the older flash stuff, so if he was like flash was in the justice league cartoon then... that just makes the family thing worse. Because Wally was fucking boring when he went away.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Me neither, but you know there are fans out there getting their panties in a twist that just want to know if she's alive or existent or whatever. So I still think its a nice gesture to the fans
> 
> Exactly, I feel like most fans just want to know what his situation is. Wally is hands down my favorite flash, but I know the time isn't right for 2 flash books right now.
> 
> ...



Call me a heretic, but I'll be waiting eagerly more for Flash than the entire Batfamily. 

*Inb4 Gabz loads her rifle*

I still don't get this notion of the Flashtastic Four, but maybe that's because outside of Ben Grimm I really didn't like them.  Linda had zero powers whereas the entire Fan Four did.  Jai and Iris are kids with unstable powers.  Wally West is actually likable compared to Reed Richards.  No one has an image crisis like Ben Grimm did and have a resolution via the blind gf.  I think the one fault was the rather campy image of it all especially on the New Flash covers, but outside of that I enjoyed seeing Jai and Iris work with Mom and Dad, since Linda herself fully acknowledges the increased role her entire family is going to play along with herself.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I haven't read a ton of the older flash stuff, so if he was like flash was in the justice league cartoon then... that just makes the family thing worse. Because Wally was fucking boring when he went away.



Wally in the JL cartoon was the comic relief, the goofball, and the hot kid on the block.  He was *sort of like* that in the older comics but assumed that he had greater responsibility, plus the whole Linda thing wasn't immediate.  That took time and development which was a bonus on DC's end.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

EDIT: Mael covered it

But yea I still don't like the idea of both kids being superpowered and going out on adventures with dad.

Now the idea of Iris getting into speed force enhanced hijinks and Wally trying to keep up with her while teaching her to be a better speedster and deal with the whole dual lives thing? That I could maybe get into.

Again, basically Impulse but with Wally taking over for Max.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Have you read the Waid/Johns stuff? The only time Wally was like the JL cartoon Wally was very early in his run when he was a millionaire.



The only characteristic that Wally West ever really had throughout his adaptations was the fact he was always around ladies and potentially flirting with them.  JLU took some liberties with his friendships with Diana, Hawkgirl, etc.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

I dont Care if some  prudes are hatting on it i loved Red Hood and the Outlaws


----------



## Slice (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm liking this preview more than i expected to.

And another small review on my "reading all 52 new #1's" project.

Batgirl - Underwhelming is probably the best word. There is nothing in this book that justifies having two red headed, bat sign wearing, approximately the same age old women running around in gotham. My biggest problem with the book though is that it fails as a number 1 issue. While i think that every comic fan should (have) read the killing joke referencing it in the very first issue is a mistake. These books should mainly establish a new continuity for new readers and while i appreciate that they make this nod to the "old" readers that her time in the wheelchair is still canon it is absolutely unnecessary to do this right now. This is panel and exposition time that should have been used to establish her new status quo because everyone going to read this without the background knowledge_ will_ have to read a wiki or back issues to get why exactly this is so important. Showing "this Batgirl was in a wheelchair but she got better" does nothing for the plot.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> I dont Care if some  prudes are hatting on it i loved Red Hood and the Outlaws



Prude?  We stressed it wasn't as much the sex as to how it was delivered with Starfire's blank slate almost sex robot like attitude towards the whole thing, not to mention Jason's sneering quasi-frat boy attitude to everything including Starfire.  She just seemed somewhat out of place with the whole plot of the first issue.  The artwork was fantastic but Jesus...amnesia?  Really?  

That and you know how I feel about Jason Todd. 



Slice said:


> Batgirl - Underwhelming is probably the best word. There is nothing in this book that justifies having two red headed, bat sign wearing, approximately the same age old women running around in gotham. My biggest problem with the book though is that it fails as a number 1 issue. While i think that every comic fan should (have) read the killing joke referencing it in the very first issue is a mistake. These books should mainly establish a new continuity for new readers and while i appreciate that they make this nod to the "old" readers that her time in the wheelchair is still canon it is absolutely unnecessary to do this right now. This is panel and exposition time that should have been used to establish her new status quo because everyone going to read this without the background knowledge_ will_ have to read a wiki or back issues to get why exactly this is so important. Showing "this Batgirl was in a wheelchair but she got better" is just really not important from a 'first issue' pov.



I went back to reading Warhammer 40K novels with renewed enthusiasm thanks to Batgirl's dialogue.  That's how hammy it was at some moments.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

I've read Johns and Waid. I prefer DCAU Wally. I will never understand wally fans complaining that barry is bland. They're nearly interchangeable.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm feeling a bit SAVAGE today.


----------



## mali (Sep 26, 2011)

I will seriously lol if Hawkman doesnt leave up to its brutal hype, namedly at sage, chubz and cash


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Mael said:


> Prude?  We stressed it wasn't as much the sex as to how it was delivered with Starfire's blank slate almost sex robot like attitude towards the whole thing, not to mention Jason's sneering quasi-frat boy attitude to everything including Starfire.  She just seemed somewhat out of place with the whole plot of the first issue.  The artwork was fantastic but Jesus...amnesia?  Really?
> 
> That and you know how I feel about Jason Todd.



i haven't  been around this thread, i was waiting for the books i wanted to read to come out before i jumped in so i wasn't referring to people in this thread 

but to your points, I think the cold alien Detachment Starfire has now is interesting [and really she has always had shades of this], i think calling her a slut is  a bit much,  sluts are flirty, she more like Finesse from Avengers Academy


and I liked Jason being a douche it what sets him apart from most Comic book leads.


whats really funny is all the "why Didn't they make her like the cartoon" comments, i mean really?  the hippy funny foreigner bit is played out to shit, but DC fan boys  youknow


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> I dont Care if some  prudes are hatting on it i loved Red Hood and the Outlaws



Red Hood was my favorite last week, the shitstorm was really unnecessary.  

We still don't have enough information on Starfire yet.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> but to your points, I think the cold alien Detachment Starfire has now is interesting [and really she has always had shades of this], i think calling her a slut is  a bit much,  sluts are flirty, she more like Finesse from Avengers Academy



I think the issue is that she was essentially completely rebooted and is now something of a blank slate. No memory, and with the cold alien detachment she seems to be unable to form actual connections with people.

I don't think it totally kills the issue, but Im not at all surprised that long time starfire fans are pissed.

Hopefully Lobdell can do something significant with this blank slate, but judging by how he didn't want starfire in the book to begin with, im not holding my breath.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 26, 2011)

Mali said:


> I will seriously lol if Hawkman doesnt leave up to its brutal hype, namedly at sage, chubz and cash



Thank Ben Grimm for starting the craze.

It started as a joke, but it simply stuck.

Now I'm geniunely dying to read that comic.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> Red Hood was my favorite last week, the shitstorm was really unnecessary.
> 
> We still don't have enough information on Starfire yet.



Unnecessarily but no unexpected, DC has a majority of the female comicbook fandom and every female comicbook fan i know gets pissed when ever a female character is depicted and Flirty, Sexy, or even slightly promiscuous

which  is funnily sexist, i Like Tony stark and Herc impart cause they get tail like a boss, i dont think i am chauvinistic just cause i also like Female characters that do the same thing (Starfire, She-hulk ect.)



Whip Whirlwind said:


> I think the issue is that she was essentially completely rebooted and is now something of a blank slate. No memory, and with the cold alien detachment she seems to be unable to form actual connections with people.
> 
> I don't think it totally kills the issue, but Im not at all surprised that long time starfire fans are pissed.
> 
> Hopefully Lobdell can do something significant with this blank slate, but judging by how he didn't want starfire in the book to begin with, im not holding my breath.



forgive me if iam wrong isn't this the entire point of the reboot in the first place


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

I don't even think its the promiscuity that bothers most starfire fans. I think its more the "No memory and can't connect with humans" thing.



> forgive me if iam wrong isn't this the entire point of the reboot in the first place



To completely reboot a character? No not really. Yea, the point is to make more accessible comics, but they also don't want to throw the bird to old fans. He could have still made Starfire accessible without wiping her memory and making her borderline emotionless.

Especially since one of Starfire's main traits is how emotional she is.

I'm kind of holding on to the idea that NOWHERE (in its infancy) wanted to get capture their own superman instead of building one from the ground up so they nabbed Starfire and tried to turn her into some emotionless agent for them.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I don't even think its the promiscuity that bothers most starfire fans. I think its more the "No memory and can't connect with humans" thing.



Obviously the recovery of her memories and connecting with Jason and Roy is set up to be her character arc though.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I don't even think its the promiscuity that bothers most starfire fans. I think its more the "No memory and can't connect with humans" thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


but wouldn't he learning to connect to people be a story point worth exploring

like if u do this hole reboot thing and then ur just  telling the same stories with the smae characterization as before what the point


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> Obviously the recovery of her memories and connecting with Jason and Roy is set up to be her character arc though.



Yea, that's what I figured too, possibly through the scenario I presented above. But Lobdell hasn't outright stated that yet so Starfire fans are still getting their panties all in a twist.



Zen-aku said:


> but wouldn't he learning to connect to people be a story point worth exploring
> 
> like if u do this hole reboot thing and then ur just  telling the same stories with the smae characterization as before what the point



Yea, and I think they're going to do that, but there's a difference between a tweaked characterization and an almost entirely new personality.

Like I said, I can see why starfire fans are pissed, but of course a lot of them are being WAY too overdramatic and pissy about it.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

oi the red hood stuff.

The difference zen, between starfire getting laid and iron man or whoever, is that in starfire's case it's written and drawn to be more of a fantasy for the guys than it is about her being awesome at getting what she wants.  It is a bit sexist. 

You can enjoy the book if it doesn't bother you that starfire's different and all that, but you should be aware of the fact that it's extremely fanservice-y. And not everyone is going to be ok with that.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> oi the red hood stuff.
> 
> The difference zen, between starfire getting laid and iron man or whoever, is that in starfire's case it's written and drawn to be more of a fantasy for the guys than it is about her being awesome at getting what she wants.  It is a bit sexist.


 i fail to see how it's different other then she is a woman and women shouldn't like sex

isn't tony being a millionaire, super-smart, playboy,Superhero more of a Guy fantasy then Starfire being a  former slave, amnesiac, Cold alien warrior princess



> You can enjoy the book if it doesn't bother you that starfire's different and all that, but you should be aware of the fact that it's extremely fanservice-y. And not everyone is going to be ok with that.


i am continually displeased with he sudden demonetization of fanservice in all it's forms


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> i fail to see how it's different other then she is a woman and women shouldn't like sex
> 
> isn't tony being a millionaire, super-smart, playboy,Superhero more of a Guy fantasy then Starfire being a  former slave, amnesiac, Cold alien warrior princess



one is 'i wish i was tony stark' and the other is 'i wish i could bang starfire'.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> one is 'i wish i was tony stark' and the other is 'i wish i could bang starfire'.



see but people would want to sleep with Starfire any way cause she is hot, Wonderwoman is a "guy Fantasy" buy that logic ,Were as the "i want to be tony" thing is some thing done deliberately

"tony has money women and get's to be a superhero" Tony is the quintessential Guy Fantasy


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> i fail to see how it's different other then she is a woman and women shouldn't like sex
> 
> isn't tony being a millionaire, super-smart, playboy,Superhero more of a Guy fantasy then Starfire being a  former slave, amnesiac, Cold alien warrior princess
> 
> i am continually displeased with he sudden demonetization of fanservice in all it's forms



Read up on the history of comic books and then you'll see clearly the disparity of men and women.

And there's a difference between good and bad fanservice.  Making someone a complete tabula rasa who seems to almost be at the whims of Jason Todd with a smile, a blowjob, and then a thank you doesn't really appeal to anyone seeking even a modicum of a personality.

Good fanservice would be like inserting some Teen Titans from before in major contribution while not copping out with "amnesia."


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> see but people would want to sleep with Starfire any way cause she is hot, Were as the "i want to be tony" thing is some thing done deliberately



Yeah because there's nothing deliberate about putting starfire in sexy poses in every single panel and her main character thing being that she has sex with the guys.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Mael said:


> Read up on the history of comic books and then you'll see clearly the disparity of men and women.


 yes yes, worse then some make it out too be, but not as bad as other shout from the soap boxes it is, i deal with the hear and now


> And there's a difference between good and bad fanservice.  Making someone a complete tabula rasa who seems to almost be at the whims of Jason Todd with a smile, a blowjob, and then a thank you doesn't really appeal to anyone seeking even a modicum of a personality.


 first issue, just  showing the status quo, i wouldn't say "she served at his whims" she has feelings free sex with him, and Todd thinks thats just swell



Petes12 said:


> Yeah because there's nothing deliberate about putting starfire in sexy poses in every single panel and her main character thing being that she has sex with the guys.


 in that costume [and swim suit] she could be going through a stamp collection and it would seem sexy, and id say clearly her "main character thing" is the whole no memories no emotions, but hey no surprise sex is the thing every one makes a big deal about


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, and I think they're going to do that, but there's a difference between a tweaked characterization and an almost entirely new personality.
> 
> Like I said, I can see why starfire fans are pissed, but of course a lot of them are being WAY too overdramatic and pissy about it.



Yeah I get being upset about that, they act like she isn't going to change though.

It would of been better to just wipe her history with the Titans all together instead of amnesia/short term memory.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> in that costume [and swim suit] she could be going through a stamp collection and it would seem sexy


and yet she was drawn specifically in provocative poses and framed in a certain way, despite already being sexy, and that's the issue. You're kinda being willfully ignorant.





> and id say clearly her "main character thing" is the whole no memories no emotions, but hey no surprise sex is the thing every one makes a big deal about


she doesn't have amnesia. the implication is that either her time as a titan meant little to her or she doesn't want to revisit that time or talk about it.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> and yet she was drawn specifically in provocative poses and framed in a certain way, despite already being sexy, and that's the issue. You're kinda being willfully ignorant.


 Fanservice is not a bad thing, she has always worn costumes like that, you couldn't not draw her and call it fanservice





> she doesn't have amnesia. the implication is that either her time as a titan meant little to her or she doesn't want to revisit that time or talk about it.


 she has no long term memory


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> she doesn't have amnesia. the implication is that either her time as a titan meant little to her or she doesn't want to revisit that time or talk about it.



Right right, people kept mentioning amnesia that I forgot that wasn't the case, she is just a bit cold now.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Fanservice is not a bad thing, she has always worn costumes like that, you couldn't not draw her and call it fanservice



I know, which is part of why I think the character is stupid, but the artist DID go out of his way to make it as fanservice-y as possible, and then you pile on that she now doesn't actually care about relationships to other people and just wants to have sex with the guy characters so they can brag about it, and you have something that's going to be problematic with people.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I know, which is part of why I think the character is stupid, but the artist DID go out of his way to make it as fanservice-y as possible,


i dont think so, yes  obvious fan service is obvious but no more then any other setting at the beach, i seriously doubt their gonna be chilling on the beach every month


> and then you pile on that she now doesn't actually care about relationships to other people and just wants to have sex with the guy characters so they can brag about it, and you have something that's going to be problematic with people.


see my prude comment. the only guy that bragged was Jason and he's a dick thats the point. also "kori" seems to only care about what she wants not a bad thing really


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

I like Starfire, but not on earth and not with the titans. NTT was a great book, and Starfire was great in it, but at this point she has far more potential as a character when put in an interstellar setting.

She was awesome in REBELS, and I'd love to see her in a book like that again. Or any other space book taking place in present day not called Green Lantern


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> i dont think so, yes  obvious fan service is obvious but no more then any other setting at the beach


  hi that's called blatant fanservice. 

And no it doesn't really bother me on any level beyond me going 'really DC?' because they're supposed to be trying to put a good foot forward right now and not alienate different kinds of readers, like, you know, women. 

And it's just kinda immature.


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 26, 2011)

Not understanding why the Starfire fanservice isn't a good thing is a tad worrying


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> hi that's called blatant fanservice.


 yes it is and its harmless


> And no it doesn't really bother me on any level beyond me going 'really DC?' because they're supposed to be trying to put a good foot forward right now and not alienate different kinds of readers, like, you know, women.
> 
> And it's just kinda immature.


yup, remember kids its not ok to appreciate the Female form 

I mean seriously, yes Female characters should be strong and interesting, but if girls dont want to read just cause they have insecurities with them selves and cant see another woman look hot, or *Gasp* Enjoy sex, well this book probly wasnt for them in the first place

this is a book about anti-heroes, guys that say fuck u to authority and the DC norm, No problems with killing, guns, explosions,and  a good looking woman thrown in ,and from the female fans i know, they just want the girl power "look they are treated just like the guys" treatment, This is a Guy Comic threw and Threw , that doesn't make it bad thogh


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

it's the equivalent of a comic where there's pages of a guy in a speedo zooming in on his bulge over and over from different angles. you can't see why the starfire thing would in particular annoy women? really?


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> it's the equivalent of a comic where there's pages of a guy in a speedo zooming in on his bulge over and over from different angles. you can't see why the starfire thing would in particular annoy women? really?



I watch professional wrestling, guys in speedoes showing of their goods isn't some thing that bothers me


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

it might if the comic made a point of zeroing in on it as often as possible. just sayin. you totally writing off the opinions of people that that bothers as prudes is pretty ignorant.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 26, 2011)

Meh, it's not like women are going to care about that comic anyway.

I couldn't care less about the fanservice shots. Fanservice has always been a part of her character, judging from her outfit. It's her character being turned into an emotionless, amnesiac slut that I dislike.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> it's the equivalent of a comic where there's pages of a guy in a speedo zooming in on his bulge over and over from different angles. you can't see why the starfire thing would in particular annoy women? really?



I'm thinking were going more into demographic issues rather than a problem with the actual comic, since Starfire was always titulation.


----------



## Slice (Sep 26, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Meh, it's not like women are going to care about that comic anyway.
> 
> I couldn't care less about the fanservice shots. Fanservice has always been a part of her character, judging from her outfit. It's *her character being turned into an emotionless, amnesiac slut **that I dislike*.



I fully support this post! 

Minus the "slut" of course, at least she only jumped guys she really liked.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 26, 2011)

Slut's thw wrong word, A amnesiac  doll is more accurate...I'll say this again, i don't have a problem with fanservice (Mind you the bikini was originally going to be translucant...so somebody on th editorial staff, had some sense with this...one wonders where they were for Catwoman) I do have a problem with rendering a character a blank slate, for the sole purpose of making her into a fuck toy



Ben Grimm said:


> Anyways is anyone here going to be Reading All Star Western with Jonah da Hex and him adventuring in classic Gotham
> 
> I reckon id otta be a purdy good readin.
> 
> Yippy Ky Yay



It's on my pull list...so yes im getting it, I've likd Hex for a while now



Sephiroth said:


> Thoughts on Teen Titans?



You know making Tim the new Oracle is becoming a better idea by the second


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> it might if the comic made a point of zeroing in on it as often as possible. just sayin. you totally writing off the opinions of people that that bothers as prudes is pretty ignorant.



not really

i  didn't notice the ass shots in nite-wing till some one pointed them out



> I do have a problem with rendering a character a blank slate, for the soul purpose of making her into a fuck toy


 the writer isn't doing that thogh, they have shown she has some shit of he own going on, you really think all she is gonna do every issue is lie on her back, hell if u look at the solicits  she is gonna have her own arc and personal bad guy


----------



## Taleran (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> the writer isn't doing that thogh, they have shown she has some shit of he own going on, you really think all she is gonna do every issue is lie on her back, hell if u look at the solicits  she is gonna have her own arc and personal bad guy



The writer totally is doing that this issue however and this is the sole issue out so far. Therefore the only one people can talk about in any real way.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> not really
> 
> i  didn't notice the ass shots in nite-wing till some one pointed them out



In nightwing #1? That's because there weren't any.


----------



## Slice (Sep 26, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> so somebody on th editorial staff, had some sense with this...one wonders where they were for Catwoman)



Bar the last page Catwoman wasn't that horrible. Bruce / Selina having a very physical relationship works and (at least for me) her thought and actions during the "encounter" were believable. The last page though had such a terrible softcore porn vibe...



Emperor Joker said:


> You know making Tim the new Oracle is becoming a better idea by the second



Never thought of it that way. I like it.

Liked Babs as Oracle better though


----------



## Blinky (Sep 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Anyways is anyone here going to be Reading All Star Western with Jonah da Hex and him adventuring in classic Gotham
> 
> I reckon id otta be a purdy good readin.
> 
> Yippy Ky Yay



Looks pretty cool so yeah


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Eh I've seen it pointed out, and I didn't even notice it at first, that it's like not til page 4 you even see her face, before that it's all her bra and ass. 

I mean, it's guillem march and winick intentionally wrote it a certain way. He gets her voice fairly well but I'd just rather comic writers not try and pander.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> In nightwing #1? That's because there weren't any.



Dude, there totally were. It's not a Nightwing comic without the shameless appeal to the estrogen brigade. Which is fine, as the comic is quite clearly about a *character*, with incidental fanservice.

Starfire's basically been turned into a sex toy. When she was previously 'Busty Alien Madonna'. If you don't see how diametrically opposed those are, Zen-aku, then there's no point arguing.

On a not-too-related note, Young Justice episode 11. The Wall. Back to size once more. Are Weisman and co not playing along with the reboot script?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

There wasn't. I went through it just now to check and there just wasn't.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Eh I've seen it pointed out, and I didn't even notice it at first, that it's like not til page 4 you even see her face, before that it's all her bra and ass.
> 
> I mean, it's guillem march and winick intentionally wrote it a certain way. He gets her voice fairly well but I'd just rather comic writers not try and pander.



And here's where me and a lot of people tend to disagree. I think 'Catwoman' as the T&A bait works to drag in the 'Lady Death crowd' as it was so eloquentlyput elsewhere, because there's still a buildable character behind that. She may not be to everyone's taste, but it's there. Starfire is just a sentient blow-up doll now, and *that's* where the rage is coming from.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Slut's thw wrong word, A amnesiac  doll is more accurate...I'll say this again, i don't have a problem with fanservice (Mind you the bikini was originally going to be translucant...so somebody on th editorial staff, had some sense with this...one wonders where they were for Catwoman) I do have a problem with rendering a character a blank slate, for the sole purpose of making her into a fuck toy



I don't like it either, but waiting(hoping) for the direction for her character to go beyond that.

It seems implied in that it will.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 26, 2011)

That art looks amazing.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> There wasn't. I went through it just now to check and there just wasn't.



Gimme a few minutes to search out scans and I'll show you what I mean. It's not blatant, but it's there. I mean, it's bloody Dick Grayson!


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

No, it's not. I don't think you understand what fanservice is.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> That art looks amazing.



the last page looks silly but otherwise its pretty good. not what I expected from the story.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 26, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> That art looks amazing.



THIS IS APPROPRIATE:


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uli0dVmtZ-0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Blinky (Sep 26, 2011)

DIE YOU S.O.B


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Taleran said:


> The writer totally is doing that this issue however and this is the sole issue out so far. Therefore the only one people can talk about in any real way.


 i think there was plenty of ground work for her laid this issue



> Starfire's basically been turned into a sex toy. When she was previously 'Busty Alien Madonna'. If you don't see how diametrically opposed those are, Zen-aku, then there's no point arguing.


their is a diffrence i wont deny that, but i think "Sex toy" is way to narrow minded 



			
				SageMaster said:
			
		

> That art looks amazing.


 where is the brutality i was promised


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 26, 2011)

THE BLOOD GOD REQUESTS CARTER HALL TO CONTINUE THE BLOODBATH

BRUTALITY WILL NOT REST


----------



## Cromer (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> No, it's not. I don't think you understand what fanservice is.



I would think fanservice is anything in a story that is not essential to the story, but is put in as a nod to fans. This extends from the T&A stuff, to continuity references, to shout-outs to other awesome films/games/books...there's a lot of stuff that comes under that banner.


----------



## Slice (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm just not seeing the connection between Hawkman and death metal / grind. This would be way more fitting for those "ultra slow and hitting like a truck filled with tnt" characters.

Also i'm not the biggest fan of that art style


----------



## Cromer (Sep 26, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> THE BLOOD GOD REQUESTS CARTER HALL TO CONTINUE THE BLOODBATH
> 
> BRUTALITY WILL NOT REST



THEY WOULD NOT DISHONOR KHORNE SO.



SKULLS FOR THE HAWK THRONE!


----------



## Cromer (Sep 26, 2011)

Slice said:


> I'm just not seeing the connection between Hawkman and death metal / grind. This would be way more fitting for those "ultra slow and hitting like a truck filled with tnt" characters.
> 
> Also i'm not the biggest fan of that art style



It's just the closest Khorne reference I could find


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I would think fanservice is anything in a story that is not essential to the story, but is put in as a nod to fans. This extends from the T&A stuff, to continuity references, to shout-outs to other awesome films/games/books...there's a lot of stuff that comes under that banner.


ok limit it to T&A


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

And if you're going with heavy metal don't settle for that fake pussy 'Disturbed' shit, it's DYING FETUS all the way


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Cromer said:


> It's just the closest Khorne reference I could find



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbmDLVFAaec[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Platinum (Sep 26, 2011)

Blood, blood everywhere.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 26, 2011)

Mael said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbmDLVFAaec[/YOUTUBE]



New remix:

MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES!

CREEAM FOR THE ICE KHORNE!

LET THE POP CORN ROAST!!!


----------



## Glued (Sep 26, 2011)

I NEED BLOOD AND GORE AND DEATH AND VIOLENCE!!!

Let me bathe in fountains of blood.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 26, 2011)

Teen Titans looks so bad.


----------



## Glued (Sep 26, 2011)

Even though Aquaman is my favorite DC Character.

Its Hawkman that I'm most excited about. My 90s spirit is boiling with anticipation for Hawkman.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Teen Titans looks so bad.



Related (barely) what is it with parted hair in comics? This bugs me about Epting on FF too, its like, kids with parted hair everywhere! What is it the 40s? 

Just one of those little things where you get the impression comic book artists are drawing their people based on other comic book people from years ago instead of looking at how people look in real ife.


----------



## Glued (Sep 26, 2011)

Which Egyptian Bird God is this. 

Horus or Ra


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 26, 2011)




----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

meh 


this books target demographic is not for little girls


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> meh
> 
> 
> this books target demographic is not for little girls



That's obvious.

However, using Starfire on other title for the fans of the Teen Titans cartoon is a smart idea.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> That's obvious.
> 
> However, using Starfire on other title for the fans of the Teen Titans cartoon is a smart idea.



now this is just  a thought so bear with me....if they want to draw in fans of the teen titan cartoon......write a teen titan book 

Like it it s kind alike me being pissed john Stewart isn't fucking Hawkgirl


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 26, 2011)

What? It has nothing to do with being pissed at there not being a Teen Titans comic based on the cartoon.

It's simply smart to make a book for the millions of fans of that show.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> What? It has nothing to do with being pissed at there not being a Teen Titans comic based on the cartoon.
> 
> It's simply smart to make a book for the millions of fans of that show.



it seems smart on paper but if i remember right the Raven mini they made to capitalize on the show when it was popular was shit and sold accordingly

still i think the reboot is about telling new interesting stories first, pandering  second

Lobdell has shown he has a ton of potential and they let him have a book with three decently popular characters and allowed him to make them what he wants for a new era


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Which Egyptian Bird God is this.
> 
> Horus or Ra



can't read the narrative, but i'll take a guess...both were Falcon gods though

Might be Horus, considering he was the god of Vengeance in Egyptian Myth...and considering the more violent notion of the book as well.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 26, 2011)

Just because it panders to a fanbase doesn't mean it can be well-written.

And from what I've heard, Lodbell was forced to write Starfire in.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Just because it panders to a fanbase doesn't mean it can be well-written.


 of course not, dosen't make it less annoying if it is thogh



> And from what I've heard, Lodbell was forced to write Starfire in.


yeah?


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Teen Titans looks so bad.



At least it wasn't a transfer over from that abortion of a Cartoon Network show.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 26, 2011)

Mael said:


> At least it wasn't a transfer over from that abortion of a Cartoon Network show.



They already had a comic for that anyways...it got replaced by Tiny Titans


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Mael said:


> At least it wasn't a transfer over from that abortion of a Cartoon Network show.



what u dont what  super sparkly hippey starfire and Booyah Cyborg?


----------



## Parallax (Sep 26, 2011)

I liked the CN show truth be told


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Parallax said:


> I liked the CN show truth be told



it had its moments but the lead characters were all so obnoxious


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 26, 2011)

Parallax said:


> I liked the CN show truth be told



I did too for that matter


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> what u dont what  super sparkly hippey starfire and Booyah Cyborg?





Parallax said:


> I liked the CN show truth be told



I fucking hated it.  I hated the crappy Japanese pop compared to the far better instrumental music of BtaS and Superman.  I hated the over-used anime stock expressions.  I hated Beast Boy's utter lack of any sign of being cool.  Mopeds...really?  Art thou a hipster, BB?  I hated them getting rid of Terra so quickly.  I hated the lame parodies.  I hated Robin's attitude every damn episode.  I hated how it took the DC cartoons I remembered as a kid with Mark Hamill's Joker, Conroy's Batman, Ironside's Darkseid, Wally West, the lamented villain Mr. Freeze, etc., the ability to mix seriousness and humor together through genuine characterization but instead insert lame catch phrases and create a TV show that Rule 34 couldn't wait to get it's p*d*p**** grips on.  It showed me the uglier side of when a cartoon franchise wants to take hold of DC, whereas Batman, Superman, and JL went above and beyond regardless of age demographic.

The ONLY good display of it all was Ron Perlman as Slade/Deathstroke/Deadpool.  Oh and MAYBE Speedy.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 26, 2011)

I didn't say it was great or anything, I just iono I liked it from time to time


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

beast boy will never ever be cool and the show accepted that and did something else with him thats more legitimate and fun for kids. 

Speaking of teen titans, bugg has been renamed skitter. Funny that they had to rename every new character so far. They should really release the name of the tar girl character so people can talk about how awful it is so they can rename it before the book ships.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Mael said:


> I fucking hated it.  I hated the crappy Japanese pop compared to the far better instrumental music of BtaS and Superman.  I hated the over-used anime stock expressions.  I hated Beast Boy's utter lack of any sign of being cool.  Mopeds...really?  Art thou a hipster, BB?  I hated them getting rid of Terra so quickly.  I hated the lame parodies.  I hated Robin's attitude every damn episode.  I hated how it took the DC cartoons I remembered as a kid with Mark Hamill's Joker, Conroy's Batman, Ironside's Darkseid, Wally West, the lamented villain Mr. Freeze, etc., the ability to mix seriousness and humor together through genuine characterization but instead insert lame catch phrases and create a TV show that Rule 34 couldn't wait to get it's p*d*p**** grips on.  It showed me the uglier side of when a cartoon franchise wants to take hold of DC, whereas Batman, Superman, and JL went above and beyond regardless of age demographic.
> 
> *The ONLY good display of it all was Ron Perlman as Slade/Deathstroke/Deadpool.  Oh and MAYBE Speedy.*


Kid Flash , Brother Blood and Red Hood X were all good too


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 26, 2011)

Brother blood was mediocre at best Zen...I wouldn't call him one of the shows strong points


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Brother blood was mediocre at best Zen...I wouldn't call him one of the shows strong points



i found him to be perfectly over the top while bad ass at the same time

Also, DiMaggio whats not to love


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Kid Flash , Brother Blood and Red Hood X were all good too



Oh yeah...Wally West as Kid Flash...no thanks.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Mael said:


> Oh yeah...Wally West as Kid Flash...no thanks.



he didn't suck like in young justice he was pretty much flash from JL but as a teen [same voice actor too which was much appreciated]


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> it seems smart on paper but if i remember right the Raven mini they made to capitalize on the show when it was popular was shit and sold accordingly
> 
> *still i think the reboot is about telling new interesting stories first, pandering  second
> *
> Lobdell has shown he has a ton of potential and they let him have a book with three decently popular characters and allowed him to make them what he wants for a new era





No, no, the reboot _is_ all about pandering. Somebody at Shortpacked said it perfectly: "Pretty much the worst possible union of masturbatory Silver Age idolatry and 90s titsngritty"


----------



## Glued (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> No, no, the reboot _is_ all about pandering. Somebody at Shortpacked said it perfectly: "Pretty much the worst possible union of masturbatory Silver Age idolatry and 90s titsngritty"



I would say that Action Comics #1 is more Golden Age.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 26, 2011)

There are two or three comics that don't follow that rule, but in general, is all about bringing the Silver Age stuff back, with some 90s flavour.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> No, no, the reboot _is_ all about pandering. Somebody at Shortpacked said it perfectly: "Pretty much the worst possible union of masturbatory Silver Age idolatry and 90s titsngritty"



if it was about pandering would they have done it in the first place?


----------



## Glued (Sep 26, 2011)

Demon Knights, All Star Western, Aquaman, Captain Atom, Swamp Thing, Animal Man.

Hell if this were 90s Aquaman, he would have a hook for a hand and a beard on his chin, with metal plate swim suit


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Even with the wtf moments, there's been a lot more DC books I liked this month than in ages. 

And its not like the books starring 'silver age' characters have been bad...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

Yea, creatively I think the relaunch was pretty successful. Sure, its not like all 52 books are AAA titles, but there's definitely more awesome books out and overall just a lot more enjoyable books.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

out of the books ive read [which has only been a few]

*Awesome:* Green Lantern Corps., Red Hood, Wonderwoman

*Good:*Red Lantern, Green Lantern

*Meh:*Static and Justice League


----------



## Gallant (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> No, no, the reboot _is_ all about pandering. Somebody at Shortpacked said it perfectly: "Pretty much the worst possible union of masturbatory Silver Age idolatry and 90s titsngritty"



Pretty much hit the nail on the head here.

I have enjoyed plenty of the books so far but I don't like how they have handled the transition or the fixation on mainly the silver age characters. I think this would have benefited better from not being seemingly rushed.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> No, no, the reboot _is_ all about pandering. Somebody at Shortpacked said it perfectly: "Pretty much the worst possible union of masturbatory Silver Age idolatry and 90s titsngritty"



I like that review. Masturbation is awesome, the silver age was awesome, and 90's extreme is awesome. It's like combining bread, peanut butter, and jelly.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> if it was about pandering would they have done it in the first place?



Is this a serious question?

Half of pandering is attracting new, yet inexperienced readers to tits and ass or to violence.  Writers like Lobdell give credence to the argument.  I saw more depth in video games than in Jason Todd in that issue.

Now her assessment of the ENTIRE reboot is a little unfair, but I see where Gabz is coming from with a disappointing Batgirl, questionable Starfire, deleted Power Girl comic, etc.  However Supergirl made up for it along with some of JL #1.

The only really graphic 90s-esque comic portrayals to be seen are Wonder Woman (already read), Red Hood (see Punisher ), and eventually Hawkman.  This doesn't comprise the majority by no means but it could build a precedent.

To me it's about how they handled bringing the characters "back to life."  So far it's been about 65% decent and 35% terrible, give or take.  Overall this is all Barry Allen's fault but still, gotta give blame where it's actually due.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen read the dark books, my god.

And wonder woman can't be 90s-esque it was too good.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Mael said:


> Is this a serious question?
> 
> Half of pandering is attracting new, yet inexperienced readers to tits and ass or to violence.  Writers like Lobdell give credence to the argument.  I saw more *depth in video games* than in Jason Todd in that issue.
> .



Most video Games are Deeper then most comic books so thats no surprise



> Zen read the dark books, my god.


none of them really caught my eye


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

Parallax said:


> I liked the CN show truth be told



I loved it personally.

Watching it again recently though I hate those cheap action movement backgrounds.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> if it was about pandering would they have done it in the first place?



 They are pandering to themselves and the same demographic they always pandered to.

Sales look good now, sure. Call me in 4 months.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> **



lots of people bitched......and are still bitching....


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Most video Games are Deeper then most comic books so thats no surprise
> 
> none of them really caught my eye



the dark books and the fact that all the big time Justice League characters have had a good/great book so far are the best things about the relaunch.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Zen read the dark books, my god.
> 
> And wonder woman can't be 90s-esque it was too good.



Um, action sequences were pretty damn close.  It wasn't Frank Miller's 300 but I bring it close to the 90s action.

Granted in the 90s I mostly read Marvel with some DC interlaced, some Robocop and some side-Frank Miller, so my violence consisted of the Punisher, Shi, Wolverine, Apocalypse being Apocalypse, Magneto, etc.



Zen-aku said:


> Most video Games are Deeper then most comic books so thats no surprise



Gears of War begs to differ. 

Space Marine would give you some credence though.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> They are pandering to themselves and the same demographic they always pandered to.
> 
> Sales look good now, sure. Call me in 4 months.



Tell you what, if Starfire doesn't go full nude or the closest thing to a nipple, I owe you a Coke (or Pepsi).


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Mael said:


> Gears of War begs to differ.



Some one didn't play the third one 

[or the second one for that matter ]



> the dark books and the fact that all the big time Justice League characters have had a good/great book so far are the best things about the relaunch.


 I might check out Green Arrow, but i have a long history of not reading  superman and i plan on keeping it going, and i am a bit batman'ed out

tell me about the dark books


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 26, 2011)

Was anyone bitching when Star was full nude in 52? From what I've read about Star, she's always been at least 50% fanservice.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Videogames that aren't RPGs are almost impossible to give character depth to due to the nature of the games themselves.

Violence and blood etc isn't enough to make it '90s' to me. It has to be really over the top, cheap, for shock value alone, try way too hard to be cool, etc


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Some one didn't play the third one
> 
> [or the second one for that matter ]



This is the DC Reboot thread, so I'll keep it short.

Played all three, nearly gagged in the end, liked Space Marine more herp derp.

But honestly, it's serious pandering the way they're shoving some like Power Girl to the role of assumed girlfriend and Starfire initially being the way she is.  I mean...Catwoman.  I understand she was always meant to be sultry and sexy...but Batman just saying "I herd u got firebombed. " and next thing you know she's working the sexy times, I mean come on.  At least have some better build-up, DC.  It's pandering.  People wanted to apparently see Selina get it on with Bats for no apparent reason aside from a rough night.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> lots of people bitched......and are still bitching....



Sales are good and the crowd DC cares about (males 18/30) seem happy. Why would they care about the people that are bitching?

Well, as long as the sales are good. 



Mael said:


> Tell you what, if Starfire doesn't go full nude or the closest thing to a nipple, I owe you a Coke (or Pepsi).



Pft, DC doesn't have the balls. In fact, nude Starfire would have been more in character, since it's not an issue for her.



MrChubz said:


> Was anyone bitching when Star was full nude in 52? From what I've read about Star, she's always been at least 50% fanservice.



The main issue is not the nakedness or the sex. Is the personality change. I'm all for Starfire sexing every male and female superhero under the sun. But this is not Starfire. 

Roy and Jason acting like fratboys doesn't help.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> masturbatory Silver Age idolatry and 90s titsngritty"



My body is ready for Hawkman.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Was anyone bitching when Star was full nude in 52? From what I've read about Star, she's always been at least 50% fanservice.


she has, she also has always had a "free love, my people arent prudes" shtick too



Petes12 said:


> Videogames that aren't RPGs are almost impossible to give character depth to due to the nature of the games themselves.


Assasins creed, Uncharted, Gears,Heavy rain i could go on


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Some one didn't play the third one
> 
> [or the second one for that matter ]
> 
> ...



Green Arrow is not a major Justice Leaguer and his book sucked  

I was talking about Action Comics, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern. If Flash is good too that'll be something.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 26, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> My body is ready for Hawkman.



Hey, one book is not a problem. The problem is when most of the line follows that mentality.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The main issue is not the nakedness or the sex. Is the personality change. I'm all for Starfire sexing every male and female superhero under the sun. But this is not Starfire.
> 
> Roy and Jason acting like fratboys doesn't help.



Believe me, I know how much they butchered Stars character. However the fanserviveyness seems to be about on par with her normal level.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> she has, she also has always had a "free love, my people arent prudes" shtick too
> 
> Assasins creed, Uncharted, Gears,Heavy rain i could go on



Gears really? 

Heavy Rain, sure, and a few other non-RPGs. All gameplay types that are slowed down to focus on storytelling first though. It's hard to tell a deep story with a shooter or a platformer because you're so rarely looking at the characters faces, there's very little time for characters to converse, etc.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The main issue is not the nakedness or the sex. Is the personality change. I'm all for Starfire sexing every male and female superhero under the sun. But this is not Starfire.


 it's not that far from her, and its a reboot, shes allowed to act out of the blue and different *shrugs*


> Roy and Jason acting like fratboys doesn't help.


Only Jason was a Frat boy, Roy was just kinda soaking it all in and going with the flow


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Yet sales are good and the crowd DC cars about (males 18/30) seem happy. Why would they care about the people that are bitching?
> 
> Well, as long as the sales are good.



Well Gabz we're at an impasse at the moment, playing with sensitivities vs. economics.  Believe me, I'm with you in the sense that I'd rather see people noting criticism and working on it.  That's what brought Aaron Demski-Bowden to Black Library after five years of bitching about horrible characterization with others.  But you know as well as I do that the first rule of business is to do what makes the most profit at the lowest cost.  Most however fail to see this in long-term and that's why unless changes are made they're going to fail.

Then again don't underestimate the power of drooling neckbeards and almost-30 men.



> Pft, DC doesn't have the balls. In fact, nude Starfire would have been more in character, since it's not an issue for her.



I was going to bet you a more scandalous Supergirl or Batgirl, but even I know when not to make a losing bet.

I'll have to alter the bet to further reduction to sex robot machine twinkle her nose for Jason like fucking Jeannie and Mad Libs for Ms. Fire here.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Hey, one book is not a problem. The problem is when most of the line follows that mentality.



I don't think 'most' of the line has. And I think it's nice to see DC branching out more beyond 'stories about how iconically awesomely perfect, yet lame noncharacters our characters are'. But ideally they should try and branch out in other directions too... rather than just the 'edgy' and, well, 'dark' (but those ones are good).


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Hey, one book is not a problem. The problem is when most of the line follows that mentality.



Well at least the main titles feel fresh enough.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Hey, one book is not a problem. The problem is when most of the line follows that mentality.



That's TBD.  Yes everyone's doing the whole Hawkman Khorne thing hardy harr me being the 40K fan here, but my guess is that'll just be the Hawk for a while.



Zen-aku said:


> Only Jason was a Frat boy, Roy was just kinda soaking it all in and going with the flow



Ever been around frat I pay to have friends mentalities?


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Believe me, I know how much they butchered Stars character. However the fanserviveyness seems to be about on par with her normal level.



I'm not bothered by the fanservice, as long as it's not just that. 

And most people are complaining because it's not just Starfire. Waller, Catwoman, Harley Quinn. I can understand Catwoman even if her sex scene reads like  a fanfic written by a 15 year old who just discovered Playboy. But Waller and Harley's make over were completely unnecessary.



Petes12 said:


> I don't think 'most' of the line has. And I think it's nice to see DC branching out more beyond 'stories about how iconically awesomely perfect, yet lame noncharacters our characters are'. But ideally they should try and branch out in other directions too... rather than just the 'edgy' and, well, 'dark' (but those ones are good).



I am very happy with some of the books, but most of them didn't need a relaunch/reboot/whatever to exist. Animal Man, Demon Knights, even Wonder Woman could have worked without fucking up the rest.



Zen-aku said:


> it's not that far from her, and its a reboot, shes allowed to act out of the blue and different *shrugs*
> Only Jason was a Frat boy, Roy was just kinda soaking it all in and going with the flow



While we are at it, can we make Superman wear pink? It's a reboot! You can do whatever you want with him!

Yeah, that would fly if DC wasn't trying to have its cake and eat it too. Either you do a clean reboot or you keep continuity and don't fuck up the characters. You can't have both.

Roy slept with his friend's ex knowing there's something wrong with her memory.

What a charmer.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Green Arrow is not a major Justice Leaguer and his book sucked


 he is to me

Did it Suck cause they changed some thing kinda sucked ?

or was it

docent make sense and is just stupid suck?



> I was talking about Action Comics, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern. If Flash is good too that'll be something.


 flash hmmm.... Barry Allen?


Petes12 said:


> Gears really?


Ya rlly


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

Green Arrow is a cool guy.

Shame his book was meh.


----------



## Glued (Sep 26, 2011)

Like Wolverine with Wings


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> he is to me
> 
> Did it Suck cause they changed some thing kinda sucked ?
> 
> ...



It was just kinda not super interesting, with lame looking villains, and I hate the art. It's not like they destroyed his character or anything, he's just younger and his company is like Apple.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I'm not bothered by the fanservice, as long as it's not just that.
> 
> And most people are complaining because it's not just Starfire. Waller, Catwoman, Harley Quinn. I can understand Catwoman even if her sex scene reads like  a fanfic written by a 15 year old who just discovered Playboy. But Waller and Harley's make over were completely unnecessary.



In Waller's case beng skinny =/= fanservice. Harley Quinn has always been a slutty psycho (even in the kids show) and I haven't read Catwoman,

As for Roy and Jason. I actually liked the dynamic. Two buddies talking shit to each other. I can relate to that. Now all I need is the slutty girl who barley puts on clothes.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Wolverine with Wings



That's a scary thought.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> While we are at it, can we make Superman wear pink? It's a reboot! You can do whatever you want with him!
> 
> Yeah, that would fly if DC wasn't trying to have its cake and eat it too. Either you do a clean reboot or you keep continuity and don't fuck up the characters. You can't have both.
> 
> ...



The saddest part about your entire statement is that I've run across college guys be they frat or not with that same mentality of Roy.

Gun to head, load chamber, contemplate pulling trigger.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 26, 2011)

Somehow I forgot Roy slept with Star. Yeah, Roy was a douche.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> In Waller's case beng skinny =/= fanservice. Harley Quinn has always been a slutty psycho (even in the kids show) and I haven't read Catwoman,
> 
> As for Roy and Jason. I actually liked the dynamic. Two buddies talking shit to each other. I can relate to that. Now all I need is the slutty girl who barley puts on clothes.



Whoa whoa whoa...Harley Quinn was never slutty in the kids show.  Yes she was driven nuts by Joker and turned into a quasi-fangirl, but slutty?  Bold declaration.

No, just no.  The new Harley looks more like a Suicide Girl mixed with Slaanesh mixed with Brody Dalle than anything DC should've just kept.



> As for Roy and Jason. I actually liked the dynamic. Two buddies talking shit to each other. I can relate to that. Now all I need is the slutty girl who barley puts on clothes.



Res ipsa...loquitur?


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> *In Waller's case beng skinny =/= fanservice.* Harley Quinn has always been a slutty psycho (even in the kids show) and I haven't read Catwoman,
> 
> As for Roy and Jason. I actually liked the dynamic. Two buddies talking shit to each other. I can relate to that. Now all I need is the slutty girl who barley puts on clothes.



Really? Do tell me why they made her skinny and her first panel had her with her breasts falling off her blouse.

Then why change it if it was already sexy? Harley's look is iconic and DC loves iconic as long as by iconic you mean stuff they grew up with.

You sound like a charmer.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> It was just kinda not super interesting, with lame looking villains, and I hate the art. It's not like they destroyed his character or anything, he's just younger and his company is like Apple.


 that disappointing,  he still with canary? is their any potential for it to get better?



MrChubz said:


> As for Roy and Jason. I actually liked the dynamic. Two buddies talking shit to each other. I can relate to that. Now all I need is the slutty girl who barley puts on clothes.


 thats part of why i liked it, theirs some good Potential chemistry between all three of them.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

You're kidding right?  Jason keeps reminding me why I don't like him.



gabzilla said:


> Really? Do tell me why they made her skinny and her first panel had her with her breasts falling off her blouse.
> 
> Then why change it? Harley's look is iconic and DC loves iconic as long as by iconic you mean stuff they grew up with.
> 
> You sound like a charmer.



He retconned his Roy comment, Gabz...I think.

But Harley's look is a fucking travesty.  Again, we didn't need Brody Dalle meets Unter Null meets Fangoria meets Slaanesh.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

Starfire is definitely the low point, but yea I liked the bromistry between Jason and Roy. Hopefully Lobdell kinda fast tracks the whole redemption thing for starfire though...


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I'm not bothered by the fanservice, as long as it's not just that.
> 
> And most people are complaining because it's not just Starfire. Waller, Catwoman, Harley Quinn. I can understand Catwoman even if her sex scene reads like  a fanfic written by a 15 year old who just discovered Playboy. But Waller and Harley's make over were completely unnecessary.



That is one sad 15 year old if hes just discovering playboy. 

Waller really blows my mind, much more so than Harley.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 26, 2011)

Mael said:


> Whoa whoa whoa...Harley Quinn was never slutty in the kids show.  Yes she was driven nuts by Joker and turned into a quasi-fangirl, but slutty?  Bold declaration.


Harley was in lingerie wanting the Joker to send a few jokes her way more then one in the series.



> No, just no.  The new Harley looks more like a Suicide Girl mixed with Brody Dalle than anything DC should've just kept.


Can't say I'm a fa of the new design. It's not the worst thing ever though.



> Res ipsa...loquitur?


No-o talko thato.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 26, 2011)

Im probably the only one but I didnt really care Red Hood and the Outlaws. The art really bugged me, the splash action pages were amazing (except for Todd's captain falcon thighs) but the art in the rest of the book looked really offputting even though it wasnt "bad" per-se. I don't know. 

Its not that I thought it was bad or anything but I just dont care for it.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Starfire is definitely the low point, but yea I liked the bromistry between Jason and Roy. Hopefully Lobdell kinda fast tracks the whole redemption thing for starfire though...



See if there's one thing that chaps my ass it's that broseph mindset.  There's a difference between "brothers" and "bros."

Brothers are the comrades-in-arms who fight with honor and have their backs and don't always come off as the biggest schmucks this side of the galaxy.  Bros on the other hand remind me of the Zeta Beta Tau in Allston, MA that made me want to contemplate a weekly police call.



Petes12 said:


> Waller really blows my mind, much more so than Harley.



That abortion of a movie called Green Lantern?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2011)

I really don't get why they went this fanservicey. Its not like we're in those days before porntube/youporn/whatever, if you have an internet, you have porn. There's no need to put that shit in comics.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Then why change it if it was already sexy? Harley's look is iconic and DC loves iconic as long as by iconic you mean stuff they grew up with.



So was superman's... tbh I think they were both overdue for some kind of change because harley's costume just didn't work outside the cartoons. Not even in the more Diniesque comics, she usually had her mask off for a reason. That said, the way they went with it was not exactly ideal...


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

Should drop the Starfire hoohaw in my opinion, it's just gonna keep going back and forth.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Roy slept with his friend's ex knowing there's something wrong with her memory.
> 
> What a charmer.



it's not like she's an amnesic doll she is still a  free willed consenting adult, and he just got out of prison a foreign  hostile middle eastern prison, you really gonna fault him for wanting to get laid like any normal man of his age and  his situation




> Should drop the Starfire hoohaw in my opinion, it's just gonna keep going back and forth.


 true


Postives,

The art was very energetic and set the some for this comic

i love the premise

and theirs some interesting plot points planted

be for the reboot i wanted this book [Hood and Roy temaing up saying fuck the line and doing shit their way] and i am getting exactly what i wanted, plus some nice eye candy


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Harley was in lingerie wanting the Joker to send a few jokes her way more then one in the series.
> 
> Can't say I'm a fa of the new design. It's not the worst thing ever though



That doesn't necessarily dictate slut, just the obvious "romance" as Harley always had the aesthetics of Joker's girl.  Also, BatS wouldn't dare show anything of the sort since it was mostly art deco style.

Slut is what some people fear Starfire turning into.

I like my classics the way I like my beer...reserved, preserved, refreshing, and classy.



> No-o talko thato.



Quod erat demonstrandum.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Really? Do tell me why they made her skinny and her first panel had her with her breasts falling off her blouse.
> 
> Then why change it if it was already sexy? Harley's look is iconic and DC loves iconic as long as by iconic you mean stuff they grew up with.
> 
> You sound like a charmer.


They made her skinny in order for her to prevent heart disease. That's my guess. 

Like I said before I'm don't like Quinn's design too much (though it could be worse). That being said he's never exactly been a respectable model of feminism either.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> thats part of why i liked it, theirs some good Potential chemistry between all three of them.



Only between Jason and Roy. Starfire honestly has no business being in this book if they are taking this route with her.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> Should drop the Starfire hoohaw in my opinion, it's just gonna keep going back and forth.



In the grim discontinuity of the far reboot, there is only debate. 



Zen-aku said:


> it's not like she's an amnesic doll she is still a  free willed consenting adult, and he just got out of prison a foreign  hostile middle eastern prison, you really gonna fault him for wanting to get laid like any normal man of his age and  his situation



Um, more like amnesiac doll.

"Anything else I can do for you Jason? a flying blowjob while I blast some tanks perhaps?

What's on her mind?  "Me. _Yeah because I'm motherfucking Jason Todd, shooting up Arabs while crushing a Coors Light can on my head_"


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> true
> 
> 
> Postives,
> ...



I was looking forward to Jason being his anti-hero ass self and got what I wanted.

Roy had a missing arm before ya? I wonder if it's rebooted back or he has a prosthetic.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 26, 2011)

Mael said:


> That doesn't necessarily dictate slut, just the obvious "romance" as Harley always had the aesthetics of Joker's girl.  Also, BatS wouldn't dare show anything of the sort since it was mostly art deco style.
> 
> Slut is what some people fear Starfire turning into.
> 
> I like my classics the way I like my beer...reserved, preserved, refreshing, and classy.


All I'm saying is saying getting upset because Quinn (of all female characters) is a little fanservicey is a waste of energy.

I loved Starfire in 52 and the cartoon. I hope she doesn't become a 1dimensional sex object too.

That's fine. For every Red Hood there is there's also something that's your cup of tea (in theory).



> Quod erat demonstrandum.


Samuelljackson.jpg


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

on the issue of harley 

is her dressing like a punker really worse then the skin tight outfit 

i mean think hard is it really?




Gallant said:


> Only between Jason and Roy. Starfire honestly has no business being in this book if they are taking this route with her.



I dunno 

Jason being the Cynical jack ass Roy being a more  optimist humble guy , and her caught between them has plenty of potential



> Um, more like amnesiac doll.
> 
> "Anything else I can do for you Jason? a flying blowjob while I blast some tanks perhaps?
> 
> What's on her mind? "Me. Yeah because I'm motherfucking Jason Todd, shooting up Arabs while crushing a Coors Light can on my head"




she sounded bored with this whole mess rather then the Sex bot synth voice ur trying to make it sound like

like it was beneath her  which considerign their going with the cold detached route 

it fit


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

I think Roy will keep Jason from going to far in the future.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> I was looking forward to Jason being his anti-hero ass self and got what I wanted.


 time for him to shine 



> Roy had a missing arm before ya? I wonder if it's rebooted back or he has a prosthetic.


Cry for justice and rise never happened, lian never existed ether



> I think Roy will keep Jason from going to far in the future.


 yeah i  can see that coming too


----------



## Gallant (Sep 26, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> I dunno
> 
> Jason being the Cynical jack ass Roy being a more  optimist humble guy , and her caught between them has plenty of potential



For unnecessary fanservice in a book that would just be fine without it. I'd be just fine with Jason and Roy doing what they do without running train on Starfire and her being there to basically be a convenient plot device. *see her being the easy button in terms of taking out the tanks*


----------



## Glued (Sep 26, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> That's a scary thought.


----------



## Penance (Sep 26, 2011)

Mael said:


> Um, action sequences were pretty damn close.  It wasn't Frank Miller's 300 but I bring it close to the 90s action.
> 
> Granted in the 90s I mostly read Marvel with some DC interlaced, some *Robocop* and some side-Frank Miller, so my violence consisted of the Punisher, Shi, Wolverine, Apocalypse being Apocalypse, Magneto, etc.



Robocop wasn't violent?  



Mael said:


> That abortion of a movie called Green Lantern?



Why do people keep saying that?  

Liked WW, liked The Outlawls, (that is to say, Starfire didn't ruin it for me)

It may be possible for me to not hate TT, but I won't hold my breath, yet...


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Gallant said:


> For unnecessary fanservice in a book that would just be fine without it.


 their is no such thing as Necessarily fan service, Fan service is like a candy bar your parent  buy you as a treat, when you get it you appreciate it




> I'd be just fine with Jason and Roy doing what they do without running train on Starfire


i hate childish exageration


> and her being there to basically be a convenient plot device. *see her being the easy button in terms of taking out the tanks*


 it was just a moment to hype her up, i doubt she will do that every time, and there was plenty of stuff for her own character development planted

Jason is the leader, the first issue the characterization goes mostly to him


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

Oh my     .


----------



## Glued (Sep 26, 2011)

Green Lantern could have been better.

1) If you're going to go cosmic, go cosmic. 
2) If you're going to introduce other lanterns, have them do something useful
3) Don't use Shallow Hal Jordan. I don't respect Hal like I do John. I don't find him entertaining like Guy. And frankly Kyle as an artist would have been a more interesting choice, bringing his constructs to life.


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Penance said:


> Robocop wasn't violent?



Never said it wasn't.  Comprehension mang.



> Why do people keep saying that?
> 
> Liked WW, liked The Outlawls, (that is to say, Starfire didn't ruin it for me)
> 
> It may be possible for me to not hate TT, but I won't hold my breath, yet...



Because the movie blew and Ryan Reynolds needs to stick to Deadpool.


----------



## Glued (Sep 26, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> Oh my     .



Berserker on wings.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> 3) Don't use Shallow Hal Jordan. I don't respect Hal like I do John. I don't find him entertaining like Guy. And frankly Kyle as an artist would have been a more interesting choice, bringing his constructs to life.



Damn Straight!


----------



## Mael (Sep 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Berserker on wings.



You all shit on Kharn's legacy.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 26, 2011)

hal was the right choice grimm. he can be the right mix of funny and serious, and he has the only good GL origin and he has sinestro.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Green Lantern could have been better.
> 
> 1) If you're going to go cosmic, go cosmic.
> 2) If you're going to introduce other lanterns, have them do something useful
> 3) Don't use Shallow Hal Jordan. I don't respect Hal like I do John. I don't find him entertaining like Guy. And frankly Kyle as an artist would have been a more interesting choice, bringing his constructs to life.



Poor Hal, nobody likes you.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 26, 2011)

The only thing I'm going to say about Starfire is that I never felt like she was supposed to be some sort of sex-slave like some are implying. When I think amnesiac sex-slave in comics, I think of what happened to Swift in the Authority. I never thought she was trying to "please" Jason with her actions insomuch as she was trying to do her part in the battle. The whole sex thing seems more of her choosing, and the way she's described makes it seems like there is something going on with her that we don't know yet.

I'm still not hanging around with the book, but I think we are blowing things a bit out of proportion. Then again, we are the internet comic book community and I am a guy who once claimed that Fear Itself wounded my soul.


----------



## Penance (Sep 27, 2011)

Mael said:


> Because the movie blew and Ryan Reynolds needs to stick to Deadpool.



Origins Deadpool, or his own movie?  Aren't they slated to have the same continuity (bleh)


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

Gaurdner said all their needs to be said about Starfire



Petes12 said:


> hal was the right choice grimm. he can be the right mix of funny and serious, and he has the only good GL origin and he has sinestro.



Kyle's is pretty good actualy

besides Hal's origin is the standard lantern origin, they could of used it for any of them, like they did Kyle in the super man cartoon


Hell John's could of been he was an active marine in wherever, his team is under fire getting stomped, and the ring comes down or  it takes him right to oa  making him abandon his team to death, he rages against the guardians as he trans his skills till they finally send him back, he returns to his life a disgraced soldier accused of being a coward [the irony is he was chosen to be a lantern cause he was so brave] 

so on the human side we deal with  johns guilt, and shame  and trying to rise above it eventually deciding to say "fuck the mask" and wear his face proud

while on the super hero Side have him fight....i dunno Jade or some one, Star Sapphire maybe

or hell do what they should of done and just adapt First flight into a live action movie


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 27, 2011)

Mael said:


> You all shit on Kharn's legacy.



Kharn kind of did that for himself when he decided that his special rule would start killing off any supporting berzerkers I decided to throw into close assaults with him.


----------



## Mael (Sep 27, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Kharn kind of did that for himself when he decided that his special rule would start killing off any supporting berzerkers I decided to throw into close assaults with him.



Collect more skulls, you.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

first flight wasn't good either. 

I think Justice League 1 makes a pretty good case for hal. He shoouldn't be boring, he just often was because frankly Johns was being lazy and often didn't give much variety to the voices of his heroes.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> first flight wasn't good either.



I Disagree but can we at least agree it was better then the actual movie [and the premise was better too]


----------



## Glued (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> hal was the right choice grimm. he can be the right mix of funny and serious, and he has the only good GL origin and he has sinestro.



Or they could break a little from continuity like X-men: First Class.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 27, 2011)

I liked the Green Lantern movie. Sure, it barely showed Oa which is what I wanted to see the most, but seeing the constructs on the big screen felt awesome.

Decent movie, never got why it's so hated in the internet.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> I Disagree but can we at least agree it was better then the actual movie [and the premise was better too]



actually... nope. I liked the theater movie better. 





Ben Grimm said:


> Or they could break a little from continuity like X-men: First Class.



but there's nothing intrinsically wrong with hal anyway. nothing that makes him worse than the others.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

not just the internet on that one.....

its hated cause the plot was shit, all the characters are shallow except one [and they screwed the pooch on that one at the end]  the cgi was terrible, the villains were lame the dialogue was garbage

Like seriously, I liked Ghost rider, and i thought Green lantern was the most unwatchable superhero movie since  Catwoman


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 27, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Decent movie, never got why it's so hated in the internet.



I feel the same but for Wolverine Origins.(Ignoring Barakapool)

or maybe I was blinded by my Sabretooth fandom of them finally doing him right.



Zen-aku said:


> Like seriously, I liked Ghost rider, and i thought Green lantern was the most unwatchable superhero movie since  Catwoman


Ghost Rider was not horrible at least, just meh.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 27, 2011)

Couldn't bear to watch Ghost Rider and Catwoman.

Wolverine was pretty meh. I didn't hate it, but it's so forgettable (except for barakapool which never happened)


----------



## Mael (Sep 27, 2011)

Mark Strong totally made up for Sinestro when he played Captain Titus.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> first flight wasn't good either.
> 
> I think Justice League 1 makes a pretty good case for hal. He shoouldn't be boring, he just often was because frankly Johns was being lazy and often didn't give much variety to the voices of his heroes.



While I agree, I think the only way Hal is ever going to please anyone is if you really make him different. Follow me on this:

Hal doesn't have a gimmick to him other than "Roguish Charm". Personally, I think it can work, but let's just toss it out the window. But compare him to the others:

Kyle: Witty Artist who is a bit self-depreciating.
Guy: Self-Aggrandizing Alpha Male
John: Thoughtful, Introspective, Mature Architect with a military bent.

How do you make Hal stand out against that?

To me, it's obvious. You take him back to his roots and his period. You make him an _explorer_.

Think about it. It's just like everyone's favorite version of Hal: The _New Frontier_ version. Hal gets his ring in 1961, or some time close to that. His dad isn't a test pilot, but a former World War II ace, just like Darwyn Cooke had him. Hal himself _becomes_ a test pilot because, while he did serve in Korea, Hal is infinitely curious about the beyond. He's a test pilot because he wants to go into space.

And when Abin Sur's partner dies, he gets his wish. The ring comes to him, and he has his adventures. The time period doesn't matter as aliens can easily live longer lives, plus the GL Rings themselves help keep their wearers in tip-top shape so that Hal can appear in modern times.

But while Hal gets his ring in 1961, his heroics in that period are limited: As a young man, he decides that he should head out into the beyond and find out what lies out there in the stars. He's gone from Earth for years, with Abin Sur watching over the space near Earth and Oa. Finally, when Abin Sur dies, John Stewart gets his ring. He puts it on, starts doing stuff on earth for a couple weeks before, one night, a giant green glowing form finds him and says "I can't believe it. An Earth man."

And it's Hal Jordan, greying temples and all, about to laugh his ass off.

The whole idea would be to turn Hal into a sort of combination of Alan Scott and Hal: Someone who can play the elder statesmen, but has a bit of wild streak to him still... sort of like James Kirk in the _good_ Star Trek movies. To sum him up:

Hal: Infinitely curious, young-at-heart veteran who loves the stars and always carries a knowing smile.

This way he's still the first lantern, but he takes the best parts of different incarnations and gives him a very unique place within the Earth lanterns other than just being "the best". The reason he's the best here is that he's seen everything, been in every bad situation and come out wanting to see what's on the _next_ planet.


----------



## Bender (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> first flight wasn't good either.



I sharply disagree with you. I can watch first flight dozen times more than I can the shitty Green Lantern live action flick. The thing is bloody horrific.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Kyle: Witty Artist who is a bit self-depreciating.
> Guy: Self-Aggrandizing Alpha Male
> John: Thoughtful, Introspective, Mature Architect with a military bent.



don't see how those beat roguish charm + recklessness. 

guy is the only one I ever find more entertaining.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> don't see how those beat roguish charm + recklessness.
> 
> guy is the only one I ever find more entertaining.



I personally agree with you, but I'm really sort of talking to people who think Hal is all blandness. People simply want to erase him, but there's really a lot you can do with the character that can make him really interesting even if you don't like him.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> While I agree, I think the only way Hal is ever going to please anyone is if you really make him different. Follow me on this:
> 
> Hal doesn't have a gimmick to him other than "Roguish Charm". Personally, I think it can work, but let's just toss it out the window. But compare him to the others:
> 
> ...



I want you to write Green lantern


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I personally agree with you, but I'm really sort of talking to people who think Hal is all blandness. People simply want to erase him, but there's really a lot you can do with the character that can make him really interesting even if you don't like him.



I think you can do that without making him 70.

A lot of DC characters tend to get written as bland and that includes most of the other GLs so I don't really get the focus put on Hal with it myself.

It's part of the really stupid 'iconic gods' thing a lot of writers tend to do at DC for some reason. Basically, Alex Ross can fuck off and die.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 27, 2011)

Hal Jordan is like a manga character now.  he only gets by using GUTS.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

Shadow said:


> Hal Jordan is like a manga character now.  he only gets by using GUTS.



Hal Jordon is Natsu from fairy tale


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I think you can do that without making him 70.



He can be old without looking old. I mean, look at Alan Scott and how he was portrayed for the longest time.  



> A lot of DC characters tend to get written as bland and that includes most of the other GLs so I don't really get the focus put on Hal with it myself.



Hal is easy to pick out because he's the original and he's the one who "pushed everyone else out of the spotlight"... or so I'm told.



> It's part of the really stupid 'iconic gods' thing a lot of writers tend to do at DC for some reason. Basically, Alex Ross can fuck off and die.



Ahahahaha 

Oh, Petes.


----------



## Glued (Sep 27, 2011)

Shadow said:


> Hal Jordan is like a manga character now.  he only gets by using GUTS.



Pretty much.

Ganthet without a power ring could split a planet according to Rebirth with a thought. Ganthet is a guardian.

The Green ring has a built in mechanism that protects the guardians from the lanterns.

Krona had all the rings of the emotional magnetic spectrum.

Krona also had all the entities of the emotional magnetic spectrum at his beck and call.

Krona is a guardian, Krona has all the rings, krona has all the entities.

Hal just killed him.


Geoff Johns will be writing Aquaman, why do I feel worried about Poseidon?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 27, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> I want you to write Green lantern



Sadly while I'm great with concepts and world-building, I'm not nearly a good enough writer to deliver on the initial investment. 



Ben Grimm said:


> Geoff Johns will be writing Aquaman, why do I feel worried about Poseidon?



Are you kidding? You should be excited as hell. I'm rereading Rebirth right now, and it makes me want to read Aquaman _now_. All Johns needs is space to draw, and with Aquaman he has plenty of canvas.


----------



## Bender (Sep 27, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> Ganthet without a power ring could split a planet according to Rebirth with a thought. Ganthet is a guardian.
> 
> ...




Hal beat Krona?


----------



## illmatic (Sep 27, 2011)

Its one of the reasons Hal is no longer a Green Lantern.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 27, 2011)

Black Titan said:


> Hal beat Krona?



Yeah, final issue of War of the Green Lanterns. He basically puts one big green blast through the guy's chest.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 27, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Yeah, final issue of War of the Green Lanterns. He basically puts one big green blast through the guy's chest.



He *drilled* through the heavens


And got hobofied for his trouble


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 27, 2011)

Mael said:


> You're kidding right?  Jason keeps reminding me why I don't like him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm more offended at how ugly it is than at the "sexy" 




Petes12 said:


> So was superman's... tbh I think they were both overdue for some kind of change because harley's costume just didn't work outside the cartoons. Not even in the more Diniesque comics, she usually had her mask off for a reason. That said, the way they went with it was not exactly ideal...



Well, Superman still has his "S" at least. And he stars in a comic called Superman. No room for confusion. How many non readers (and even some comic readers) recognized Harley in the SS cover?



Zen-aku said:


> it's not like she's an amnesic doll she is still a  free willed consenting adult, and he just got out of prison a foreign  hostile middle eastern prison, you really gonna fault him for wanting to get laid like any normal man of his age and  his situation



Let's break it down.

Your friend's ex, who is also your friend, tells you she doesn't remember her friends or the man she almost married, acts nothing like she used to and then offers sex. Would you just accept it without worrying about what happened to her? 

I wanted to like this comic. I love the premise and I love the characters. But these are not Roy, Jason and Starfire.

I would have been fine with it if it was a complete reboot, but it isn't.



MrChubz said:


> *They made her skinny in order for her to prevent heart disease. That's my guess. *
> 
> Like I said before I'm don't like Quinn's design too much (though it could be worse). That being said he's never exactly been a respectable model of feminism either.



....please tell me you aren't serious.

Harley is a terrible "feminist" character. But there was no reason to make it worse. And uglier.


----------



## Glued (Sep 27, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Well, Superman still has his "S" at least. And he stars in a comic called Superman. No room for confusion. How many non readers (and even some comic readers) recognized Harley in the SS cover?



Harley is a pretty recognizable comic character, she's an evil female clown.

However this...this is...what is this?

It does not even look like a clown.


----------



## Glued (Sep 27, 2011)

Black Titan said:


> Hal beat Krona?



Hal beat an extremely overpowered Krona with just his green ring and willpower.

By extremely, I mean way over the top.

There is no logic to how Hal even survived. Geoff overpowered Krona to near unbeatable levels.

Not even the spectre should have beaten this version of Krona.

He had all the rings and all the Entities.

You just look at it and you're just thinking...dammit Geoff.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

it was such a cool page that i dont care one bit


----------



## Cromer (Sep 27, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Hal beat an extremely overpowered Krona with just his green ring and willpower.
> 
> By extremely, I mean way over the top.
> 
> ...



I think he was just getting all his Hal-wank out of his system in one tremendous burst. I mean, look at what he's been doing to him in Justice League (with more Aquaman ownage on the way ).

Best explanation.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> it was such a cool page that i dont care one bit



My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Mael (Sep 27, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I'm more offended at how ugly it is than at the "sexy"



Methinks ugly was part of the definition of "fucking travesty."  It was both hideous and a poor attempt at a new "sexy."


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Let's break it down.
> 
> Your friend's ex, who is also your friend, tells you she doesn't remember her friends or the man she almost married, acts nothing like she used to and then offers sex. Would you just accept it without worrying about what happened to her?
> 
> ...



agian Roy just got out of *prison*, and this is a big old reboot lots of their lives have been retconed to shit, Roy was never a father, so of course he isnt the same character we dont even know why he isn't with the titans and went into merc work ether  he could , and we dont know whats up with starfire yet [also Jason is actually consistent with what we last saw from him he is actually less of asshole if you can belive it]


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I wanted to like this comic. I love the premise and I love the characters. But these are not Roy, Jason and Starfire.



Well I think it works for Roy and Jason who I see both as kind of scumbags...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Well I think it works for Roy and Jason who I see both as kind of scumbags...



Roy banging starfire was a HUGE douche move, but honestly, its not like Roy is this grade A bro anyway. He's kind of a slut anyway, and I could easily see him seeing the whole Dick/Kori thing as ancient history.

EDIT: If anybody here watches How I Met Your Mother, Roy is the Barney to Dick's Ted and Wally's Marshall. And I suppose Starfire is Robin ha.

And Jason, well, banging Dick Grayson's ex love interest? He'd pop a deranged self esteem/family issues boner over that thought alone, regardless of said ex's level of attractiveness.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

btw this will surely be the worst week of the relaunch. everyone brace themselves for mediocrity. and voodoo.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 27, 2011)

SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH TEEN TITANS WILL BE AWESOME!



But seriously, Aquaman looks good, Hawkman is going to be SAVAGE BRUTAL, Flash at the very least is going to look super pretty, JLdark looks alright, and All Star Western is going to be awesome.

But yea, there's not going to be as many crazy awesome books like Batman, Wonder Woman, or Action comics, but hopefully there will be more surprises.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm kinda interested in Firestorm but even the weakest week so far had batwoman and GL and Demon Knights and probably something else decent I'm forgetting.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

So would you say Flash will be a FLASHY book? All FLASH no substance? A FLASH in the pan?


----------



## Mael (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> So would you say Flash will be a FLASHY book? All FLASH no substance? A FLASH in the pan?



The puns...they hurt my soul.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I'm kinda interested in Firestorm but even the weakest week so far had batwoman and GL and Demon Knights and probably something else decent I'm forgetting.



Frankenstein and Superboy were both pretty decent.

This week? Aquaman is probably the "biggest" release. New Guardians could be good depending on where Bedard takes it. The cover doesn't reassure me, but if the story is less about the spectrum and more about the rainbow corps dealing with different threats around the universe then it could be great.

I like Blue Beetle, but I'd swap that out for a rebooted REBELS in a second. At this point im just hoping that his GL stuff deals less with GL stuff and more with general space stuff (which is what  i've wanted from GL for years now).

And objectively, putting all hype and hopes aside, Teen Titans looks decent at worst and good at best. Although I'm kind of terrified that Bunker is going to be the Starfire in this book, as the one glaring flaw that makes the rest of the book that much harder to enjoy.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 27, 2011)

I've been quietly anticipating Voodoo and JLDark, and loudly awaiting the return of BRUTALITY to the DCU. I may...ahem...'acquire' Aquaman if my mind turns to it, but other than that...those are the books I ordered. Ain't got much money (or bandwith ) left to finagle with my comics this month.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

I'd swap out Bedard's GL book for Rebels, not Blue Beetle. If he wants to write Kyle he can put Kyle in Rebels!


----------



## Platinum (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm cautiously optimistic for JL Dark.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> So would you say Flash will be a FLASHY book? All FLASH no substance? A FLASH in the pan?



Whoa slow down there. Don't rush to such conclusions.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I'd swap out Bedard's GL book for Rebels, not Blue Beetle. If he wants to write Kyle he can put Kyle in Rebels!



Ha duh. How did I not think of that?

That would be hilarious. Vril Dox makes a deal with the Guardians that allows the REBELS autonomy....provided they accept a GL member on their team as a sign of cooperation.

I can see Dox giving Kyle all the shitty jobs simply because he's a green lantern.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

kind of an interesting interview on aquaman. I wonder if he really can make the character stand out legitimately among the rest of the justice league in that book.


----------



## Glued (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> kind of an interesting interview on aquaman. I wonder if he really can make the character stand out legitimately among the rest of the justice league in that book.


Why not, Grant Morrison did.


----------



## mali (Sep 27, 2011)

I might read Demon Knights, I kinda like Etrigan as a charcater.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Why not, Grant Morrison did.



He gave aquaman badass moments but not anything the other guys couldnt do better. It was more about giving aquaman a badass attitude.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> He gave aquaman badass moments but not anything the other guys couldnt do better. It was more about giving aquaman a badass attitude.



Which is pretty much the extent of what you can do, along with putting him at the centre of events.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 27, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Harley is a pretty recognizable comic character, she's an evil female clown.
> 
> However this...this is...what is this?
> 
> It does not even look like a clown.



THIS. IS. ARKHAM.



... just with a whole lot less pants.

Which is kind of sad, because it's likely her second most noticeable role outside of the animated series.


----------



## Bender (Sep 27, 2011)

@Ben Grimm

This is a travesty 



Guy Gardner said:


> ... just with a whole lot less pants.
> 
> Which is kind of sad, because it's likely her second most noticeable role outside of the animated series.



If DC was so desperate to make Harley Quinn look like a bad bitch they should've used her Arkham City design rather then make her look like some amazon clown. Now she just looks...bad.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 27, 2011)

who cares the game looks dope


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 27, 2011)

New Guardians preview made me chuckle.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 27, 2011)

I dislike the Harley Quinn design for both Arkham City and Suicide Squad.

Can't wait for tomorrow's comics!


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Sep 27, 2011)

Has there been any announcements about what Plastic Man and/or Elongated Man will be doing now, or have they been cut too?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 27, 2011)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Has there been any announcements about what Plastic Man and/or Elongated Man will be doing now, or have they been cut too?



Nothing on them that I know of...but Plastic Man will show up sooner or later, from what i recall he's rather popular with kids.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

They're both terrible knockoffs of mister fantastic's powers and his powers aren't even cool


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Sep 27, 2011)

All three of them have completely different personalities.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> They're both terrible knockoffs of mister fantastic's powers and his powers aren't even cool





Plastic Man predates him by two decades...and Elongated Man is a year older than him


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

discuss


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> discuss



whats the difference between replacing a white character with a minority and replacing a minority with a white character?


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> whats the difference between replacing a white character with a minority and replacing a minority with a white character?



none really, arguments can be made, but  at the end of the day their is no difference (>is black)


----------



## Cromer (Sep 27, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> discuss



Is the concept of fanservice new to you?


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

They are both fan service


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> none really, arguments can be made, but  at the end of the day their is no difference (>is black)



there is because one's a majority and the other isn't, so one is inclusive while the other is exclusive.

similarly, objectifying women is very common and pervasive throughout media, not so much men. so it's only worse when you continue to add to that which is already a big thing.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> there is because one's a majority and the other isn't, so one is inclusive while the other is exclusive.
> 
> similarly, objectifying women is very common and pervasive throughout media, not so much men. so it's only worse when you continue to add to that which is already a big thing.



wrong  men get objectified plenty we just dont care, if u open ur eyes and look its every where


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 27, 2011)




----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

i am a baaaaaaaad puddy tat


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> wrong  men get objectified plenty we just dont care, if u open ur eyes and look its every where





I'm not doing this again. I get it, you liked red hood a lot and don't want to accept there's anything wrong with that. But you're being ridiculous and you're treading into full blown sexism now.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 27, 2011)

You reallly should have just left this alone, Zen. Hell, I have a collection of deadtree Avatar Press stuff that puts this to shame, and I *still* think what Lobdell did to Starfire was unconscionable. Not because of the fanservice (which is never bad unless it's trying to cover for lack of substantial story), but because of what he did to her *character*. That, I cannot stomach.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

i was bored so i made the pic to spread around, i love you guys so much i wanted to start here 



Petes12 said:


> I'm not doing this again. I get it, you liked red hood a lot and don't want to accept there's anything wrong with that. But you're being ridiculous and you're treading into full blown sexism now.



are you actualy denying that their arent a shit tone  of muscly bulgy perfect men on tv  with tons of shirtless scenes, tank top scenes, Nude scenes played for comedy, and in general just a  a shit ton of beef cake?

[and opinions on quality a side their is nothign wrong with liking the book]


----------



## Cromer (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I'm not doing this again. I get it, you liked red hood a lot and don't want to accept there's anything wrong with that. But you're being ridiculous and you're treading into _full blown sexism_ now.



Eh? Did I miss something?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

not like their is with women zen...


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> not like their is with women zen...


again there is its just not made a big deal of



> you're treading into full blown sexism now.


how? I am arguing for Equality.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

implying that women and men are treated equally in media and women only complain because they're more sensitive to it for no good reason, that's sexism.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes are you a man or a woman?


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

he is a dude,judging by his blackest night pic 


Petes12 said:


> implying that women and men are treated equally in media


 if any one is sexist its you for  saying that men arent objectified at all

i never said women arent objectified, i am saying that men are just as much


> and women only complain because they're more sensitive to it for no good reason, that's sexism.


i never said any thing about sensitivity, i said we just dont care be it body issues that men simply dont have or  from a an actual lack of care

but  if you open your eyes you will see the hypocrisy


----------



## Mael (Sep 27, 2011)

Maaaaaaaaaaaan I can't wait for the Flash comic, hopefully with a non-controversial woman.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> he is a dude,judging by his blackest night pic
> if any one is sexist its you for  saying that men arent objectified at all
> 
> i never said women arent objectified, i am saying that men are just as much
> ...



Good lord. 

Yes I'm a guy... a white guy too but that doesn't stop me from calling out racism when I see it which I think you guys know. I'm socially conscious I guess. 

Everything you just said is pretty ignorant zen, it's not sexist on my part to acknowledge that there is not societal parity between the genders. It'd be like if someone said there's never ever any problems with racism anymore and everythings totally equal now so black people should shut up!


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 27, 2011)

Okay. The reason I asked is because the comment about only women complaining amused me. Because in this thread all I see is men complaining.


----------



## Mael (Sep 27, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Okay. The reason I asked is because the comment about only women complaining amused me. Because in this thread all I see is men complaining.



Have you met Gabzilla? 

That and I think Gallant might be a lady?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

There's other sites where I've seen women complain about it. We have, what, gab here? And she didn't like it either. But like on comicsalliance there was a huge article about the whole thing written by their Laura Hudson, etc.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm tired of the Starfire shitstorm.

There are better things to discuss like SAVAGERY.


----------



## Mael (Sep 27, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> I'm tired of the Starfire shitstorm.
> 
> There are better things to discuss like SAVAGERY.



Khorne enjoys shitstorms, FYI.


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> There's other sites where I've seen women complain about it. We have, what, gab here? And she didn't like it either. But like on comicsalliance there was a huge article about the whole thing written by their Laura Hudson, etc.



I'm not denying that there's women speaking about it. That post just tickled me, that's all.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Okay. The reason I asked is because the comment about only women complaining amused me. Because in this thread all I see is men complaining.


 for the record i was  referring to mass audience, not individuals.



Petes12 said:


> Good lord.
> 
> Yes I'm a guy... a white guy too but that doesn't stop me from calling out racism when I see it which I think you guys know. I'm socially conscious I guess.
> 
> Everything you just said is pretty ignorant zen, it's not sexist on my part to acknowledge that there is not societal parity between the genders. It'd be like if someone said there's never ever any problems with racism anymore and everythings totally equal now so black people should shut up!


 i wound compare this to racism at all, Fan service  is  harmless, hits both sides more equally, and is by many seen as a good thing or a non factor, no one is being held back or hated on for no reason

any way it's not ignorant, its just a different view man, ignorant would be me saying it never happens, or not knowing all the history or trying to understand the other side

 its not sexist on my part to see the hypocrisy and think this shit is blown out of proportion, you throw out accusations first 

yes their are societal parity  between genders, but it isn't nearly as bad as some make it out to be, this is-int cheesecake with out characterization like in the 6's this is merely a more edgy sexy take on a character already very liberated


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

urghh I said I'm not doing this again and I'm not. But you're making yourself look worse and worse.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> implying that women and men are treated equally in media and women only complain because they're more sensitive to it for no good reason, that's sexism.



I disagree with this definition.


And anyway, a lot of the complaining isn't about the Starfire fanservice, it's the context in which her character's been placed. I ignore all the 'Catwoman' complaining, because it's mainly the prude/militant feminist crowd bleating, but the Starfire thing verges on blaxploitation levels of crapping on her, and by extension her fans, casual or dedicated.

Personally I'm all for more fanservice. But not at the expense of character.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 27, 2011)

Mael said:


> Have you met Gabzilla?
> 
> That and I think Gallant might be a lady?



I'm a guy but I'm pretty much burnt out on this topic so I stopped replying about it. Its starting to rival Batgirl as the biggest complaint about the reboot in this thread that keeps coming up. Or at least almost as controversial.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> urghh I said I'm not doing this again and I'm not. But you're making yourself look worse and worse.



no i am really not.


you just disagree wit my view point



> Personally I'm all for more fanservice. But not at the expense of character.


 thing is she has always been about fanservice, even in the cartoon , she was toned down but still


----------



## Cromer (Sep 27, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> for the record i was  referring to mass audience, not individuals.
> 
> i wound compare this to racism at all, Fan service  is  harmless, hits both sides more equally, and is by many seen as a good thing or a non factor, no one is being held back or hated on for no reason
> 
> ...





  

Good night y'all, I'm done with this impasse of an argument. Tomorrow we rise...



...to watch THE GALAXY BUUUURN! BLOOD FOR THE FANBOYZ! SKULLS FOR THE HAWK THRONE!


----------



## Parallax (Sep 27, 2011)

iono Zen I do think you really are making yourself look worse with your continuing responses


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Good night y'all, I'm done with this impasse of an argument. Tomorrow we rise...
> 
> 
> 
> ...to watch THE GALAXY BUUUURN! BLOOD FOR THE FANBOYZ! SKULLS FOR THE HAWK THRONE!



if their isn't at least 2 decapitations i will bee disappointed



> iono Zen I do think you really are making yourself look worse with your continuing responses


 did i really say any thing that didn't have even a little bit of merit


----------



## Mael (Sep 27, 2011)

Gallant said:


> I'm a guy but I'm pretty much burnt out on this topic so I stopped replying about it. Its starting to rival Batgirl as the biggest complaint about the reboot in this thread that keeps coming up. Or at least almost as controversial.



See this is why I'm waiting for Flash.  Butthurt will likely be slim to none.

Especially if I can also see my WestPark. pek


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

Mael said:


> See this is why I'm waiting for Flash.  Butthurt will likely be slim to none.



There will always be the people who are butthurt if Wally doesn't make an appearance. Even worse will be if they totally write his history out of continuity. 

Aquaman is where it's at tomorrow


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

i still didn't get an answer to who is the flash in this one


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 27, 2011)

I'll just rate Flash now. Barry Allen/10.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 27, 2011)

Aquaman, Flash, Superman,  New Guardians, All-Star Western and obviously THE NEW NAME OF BRUTALITY.

Tomorrow is gonna be sick.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 27, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Aquaman, Flash, Superman,  New Guardians, All-Star Western and obviously THE NEW NAME OF BRUTALITY.
> 
> Tomorrow is gonna be sick.



Dude, you're getting Superman?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> i still didn't get an answer to who is the flash in this one


Barry of course.


----------



## Mael (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> There will always be the people who are butthurt if Wally doesn't make an appearance. Even worse will be if they totally write his history out of continuity.
> 
> Aquaman is where it's at tomorrow



Eh...I'm not too bothered over it, since Bart Allen looks to be Kid Flash, thank God.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm a huge Superman fan, so probably.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Barry of course.



of course

*sigh* oh well maybe next time

Only new guardians and  hawkeman interest me then


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

should try it anyway Barry and Wally aren't very different. so unless you were hoping it'd star hunter zolomon or something...


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Sep 27, 2011)

Shit. Completely forgot about Wally West. So, is he still Flash as well as Barry?


----------



## Mael (Sep 27, 2011)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Shit. Completely forgot about Wally West. So, is he still Flash as well as Barry?



We need to find that out!


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Shit. Completely forgot about Wally West. So, is he still Flash as well as Barry?



basically, no.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> should try it anyway Barry and Wally aren't very different. so unless you were hoping it'd star hunter zolomon or something...



Wally *IS* the Flash


Lets leave it at that *shrugs*


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 27, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Aquaman, Flash, Superman,  New Guardians, All-Star Western and obviously THE NEW NAME OF BRUTALITY.
> 
> Tomorrow is gonna be sick.



I've got All-Star Western, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Savage Hawkman, Superman and Teen Titans...plus stuff from Marvel, Dark Horse and Image


----------



## illmatic (Sep 27, 2011)

*Press Release*

_It’s official! All 52 first issues of DC Entertainment’s historic publishing initiative DC COMICS – THE NEW 52 have *sold out* from Diamond Comic Distributors in advance of publication. And all 52 issues will receive second printings.

Here’s a further look inside the numbers for DC COMICS-THE NEW 52:

? ACTION and BATGIRL already have third printings and JUSTICE LEAGUE, the bestselling comic book to date for all of 2011, is in its fourth printing.

? AQUAMAN #1 is the eleventh title in DC Comics-The New 52 with sales of more than 100,000. The series joins the sales ranks of the previously announced titles ACTION COMICS, BATGIRL, BATMAN, BATMAN AND ROBIN, BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT, DETECTIVE COMICS, THE FLASH, GREEN LANTERN, JUSTICE LEAGUE and SUPERMAN.

? BATMAN # 1 joins JUSTICE LEAGUE # 1 and ACTION COMICS # 1 as the third title with sales exceeding 200,000 copies.

“We at DC Entertainment thank our creators, our retail partners, and our readers, and remind them all we’re just getting started,” said John Rood, DC Entertainment Executive Vice President of Sales, Marketing and Business Development. “We’re thrilled to be making history, but we’re not standing around congratulating each other. We’re working behind the scenes to leverage our recent success into our long term vision for this company and its iconic characters and brands.”

“There’s never been anything like DC COMICS – THE NEW 52, as seen by our unprecedented sales and overwhelming fan enthusiasm,” said DC Entertainment Co-Publishers Jim Lee and Dan DiDio. “All 52 first issues have now sold out in advance of publication and each one of the first issues has received a second printing. Backed by DC Entertainment’s massive marketing campaign, dozens of retailer events, and hundreds of headlines from around the globe, this is a watershed moment for the comic book industry. It’s the most significant publishing event in the last 25 years of this company’s long and storied history.”_


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

Number 1s or not, 3 comics in a month over 200,000 is pretty good.


----------



## Glued (Sep 27, 2011)

I must have that HAWKMAN COMIC!!!



I AM ANGER UNRIVALED
I AM RAGE TRANSCENDENT
I AM HATRED UNIMAGINABLE!!!

There had better be brutality in that comic, lots of it. The stupider, the better.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

this is DC it will ether go way to far or not nearly far enough


----------



## Penance (Sep 27, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I'm kinda interested in Firestorm but even the weakest week so far had batwoman and GL and Demon Knights and probably something else decent I'm forgetting.



Hopefully Firestorm's good...


----------



## Glued (Sep 27, 2011)

The last time Gail Simone got her hands on a cosmic character, Ares died without a fight against an injured Wondy.


----------



## Glued (Sep 27, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> this is DC it will ether go way to far or not nearly far enough



You ever heard of Czarnian with a fly motorcycle, goes by name of Lobo.

You also don't seem to know of an hombre named Jonah Hex, I tell ya what, that fella got a face full of violence.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 27, 2011)

Firestorm is an F lister as far as I'm concerned until proven otherwise, but I'm willing to give it a chance. Mainly because the main characters can be heroes separately and don't necessarily fuse which is stupid and terrible.

Too bad the firestorm costumes are still stupid and terrible.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 27, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> You ever heard of Czarnian with a fly motorcycle, goes by name of Lobo.


 and most people think he was going to far 


> You also don't seem to know of an hombre named Jonah Hex, I tell ya what, that fella got a face full of violence.


dahh ok you got me, Hex is bitchin


----------



## Glued (Sep 28, 2011)

Today, is the day.

HAWKMAN day!!!


----------



## Mael (Sep 28, 2011)




----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 28, 2011)

What comics are you guys oicking up today?

For me:
Superman
Aquaman
The Flash
Fury of the Firestorm: Nuclear Men
THE SAVAGE HAWKMAN
Voodoo
Teen Titans
GL: New Guardians
Justice League Dark

This.... is an awesome week.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 28, 2011)

Aquaman 

I totally forgot about it but *I, VAMPIRE* since I liked the art that was shown in teh preview

Why is ALL-STAR WESTERN $3.99 

I see. 40pg.


----------



## Mael (Sep 28, 2011)

Flash...fucking Flash I'm getting. 

That and Hawkman...since Ben insists we pay tribute to Khorne.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 28, 2011)

Mael said:


>



Eh, what the fuck?





Bluebeard said:


> What comics are you guys oicking up today?
> 
> For me:
> Superman
> ...



Your list is large. MINE IS LARGER.

Aquaman
BRUTALITY!!!
Voodoo
GL: New Guardians
Justice League Dark
I, Vampire
Firestorm
Blackhawks
All-Star Western


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 28, 2011)

That sounds so fake


----------



## Mael (Sep 28, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> That sounds so fake



The 7-year-old?

Maybe...since that vocab sounds not at all conducive to a little kid, but I still got a little chuckle out of it.  Granted, the writer took some serious liberties acting on behalf of the kid and likely not recording shit.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 28, 2011)

That sounded so fake, indeed.


----------



## Mael (Sep 28, 2011)

I took it with a grain of salt.  Besides, Aaron Demski-Bowden can run rings around Ms. Lee any day.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 28, 2011)

So Batman: The Dark Knight is currently winning the retarded last page category.


*Spoiler*: __ 



http://i55.tinypic.com/2jd10g2.jpg




Glad to see Finch is continuing to make no sense.


----------



## Mael (Sep 28, 2011)

Taleran said:


> So Batman: The Dark Knight is currently winning the retarded last page category.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Between that and Batgirl's quip:


----------



## Cromer (Sep 28, 2011)

Taleran said:


> So Batman: The Dark Knight is currently winning the retarded last page category.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Is Harvey supposed to be on Venom in that pic?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 28, 2011)

Taleran said:


> So Batman: The Dark Knight is currently winning the retarded last page category.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



ooh boy...



Cromer said:


> Is Harvey supposed to be on Venom in that pic?



From what i've heard...yes


----------



## Mael (Sep 28, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Is Harvey supposed to be on Venom in that pic?



Jason Todd = Frank Castle
Harvey Dent = Eddie...Brock?

Connection? 

Better not be.  I like Two-Face, but he doesn't hold a candle to the symbiote.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 28, 2011)

*sees the Harvey page*


----------



## Mael (Sep 28, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> *sees the Harvey page*



Atrociously corny. 

But still...not liking this whole look that could be quasi-Venom.


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 28, 2011)

Just got my copy of Wonder Woman. It was a good read, took you right to the action.

But i also find it disappointing in the way the Messenger of the Gods Hermes was so easily taken out. I mean seriously, he can't even beat two damn Centaurs. He should have run circles around them, or just snap his fingers and killed them.

The fact that he was shot by an arrow was even more pathetic, he's surppose to be the fastest of the Gods.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 28, 2011)

Harvey looks like he's hopped up on roids.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 28, 2011)

All 52 one post of reviews

KARA for KIA!


And for the Hawkman interested people here this is HILARIOUS


> THE SAVAGE HAWKMAN #1: For everyone who ever thought “What would make Hawkman awesome would be if his armor and wings came out through his pores like Warren Ellis’ Iron Man!” then this is apparently the book for you. For the rest of us, this is a book where Hawkman tries to burn his costume for some unknown reason, then gets attacked by it, and then it turns out it’s living inside him or something. It really is as bad as it sounds, although Philip Tan’s watercolor art is rather nice in places. Awful, though.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 28, 2011)

Teen Titans is a "high okay"?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

Oi, I don't even like the pores thing with Iron Man. Oh well, I let it slide there I guess, only fair I let it slide here too. Even if Daniel isn't exactly Ellis or Fraction.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 28, 2011)

Yea I'm really not expecting Hawkman to be amazing. If there's a fair amount of crazy philip tan gore I'll be happy.

Also this guy seems to judge comics pretty harshly. Which is fine, but personally I'm glad that I can find something to enjoy even in mediocre comics.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

It's all in the name. At least he's actually objective, unlike far too many reviewers *cough*comicsalliance*cough*

I don't understand some of his problems though, like the batgirl cliffhanger etc.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 28, 2011)

I suppose, although ranking animal man as "almost good" is pretty crazy to me. I think that's tied with Wonder Woman for my favorite 52 book.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 28, 2011)

That art has a way of playing differently with people and Petes the Batgirl thing I believe is about how idiotic the cop acts right at the end.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> It's all in the name. At least he's actually objective, unlike far too many reviewers *cough*comicsalliance*cough*
> 
> I don't understand some of his problems though, like the batgirl cliffhanger etc.



I love Comics Alliance for some of the stories they do, but they are the most unfair reviewers I've ever seen. Chris Sims basically gave Detective Comics a 0 out of spite.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

Taleran said:


> That art has a way of playing differently with people and Petes the Batgirl thing I believe is about how idiotic the cop acts right at the end.



I didn't think it was THAT dumb. Maybe the gun was a bit much but I can understand being the cop and being pissed when the superhero totally fails to do anything to stop the criminal that just killed your partner.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 28, 2011)

Alright Ben Grimm, I got Hawkman and I'm reading it first. If this doesn't live up to the hype I'm holding you responsible. 



Bluebeard said:


> What comics are you guys oicking up today?



Just got back and picked up:

Green Lantern New Guardians
The Flash
Aquaman
Teen Titans
Batman The Dark Knight
The Savage Hawkman


----------



## Taleran (Sep 28, 2011)

Yeah there is that and then calling her a murderer.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

ok yes thats a bit melodramatic.


----------



## Glued (Sep 28, 2011)

I missed it, all the HAWKMAN, AQUAMAN and ALL STAR WESTERN, they're all sold out.

I've been wait 4 fucking weeks for this day and thanks to my Oceanography class...Its gone...Its all gone.

Fuck Oceanography.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 28, 2011)

If that is true that is deliciously ironic.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

hahaha

you could always get it online


----------



## Gallant (Sep 28, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I missed it, all the HAWKMAN, AQUAMAN and ALL STAR WESTERN, they're all sold out.
> 
> I've been wait 4 fucking weeks for this day and thanks to my Oceanography class...Its gone...Its all gone.
> 
> Fuck Oceanography.



Wow talk about something that isn't right. You are the biggest fan of those characters that I have seen yet they were sold out in just a few hours?


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 28, 2011)

HAWKMAN AND AQUAMAN SOLD OUT?

THAT'S FUCKING AWESOME 

THE HERALD OF APOCALYPSE IS HERE
SKULLS FOR THE HAWK THRONE


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 28, 2011)

reading new guardians, I like it, kyle being hilarious and all


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 28, 2011)

The Fates conspired against you it seems Ben


----------



## Cromer (Sep 28, 2011)

AHA!


And he who usurped my HAWK THRONE, HAS BEEN DEPRIVED AND DEPILATED!!! BURN, GRIMM!!!

Sorry mang


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 28, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> HAWKMAN AND AQUAMAN SOLD OUT?
> 
> THAT'S FUCKING AWESOME
> 
> ...



I believe all 52 have sold out from the distributors, and the lowest order was 42,000 for Man of War.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

Flash #1 was apparently the highest selling Flash comic in 40 years. Which is pretty funny given that it's not like the thing is really high profile at all.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Flash #1 was apparently the highest selling Flash comic in 40 years. Which is pretty funny given that it's not like the thing is really high profile at all.



Whatchu talking about? It's Barry Allen, enemy of the multiverse! Of course he sold out


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 28, 2011)

There's something really, really funny with Barry Allen inadvertently co-opting Superboy Prime's reputation.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 28, 2011)

"I'll have the fish and chips"



besides me who has read aquaman?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 28, 2011)

It was okay.

A little too much "haha you're aquaman isn't that funny!?" kind of stuff in there. A little too much aquaman talking like a badass and not enough aquaman being a badass.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Sep 28, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I believe all 52 have sold out from the distributors, and the lowest order was 42,000 for Man of War.



this is great news since DC was going down under for awhile.


I guess "when in doubt reboot everything" worked for them.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> It was okay.
> 
> A little too much "haha you're aquaman isn't that funny!?" kind of stuff in there. A little too much aquaman talking like a badass and not enough aquaman being a badass.


Just read it. 

I thought it was a pretty good set up, does sort of make you feel sorry for aquaman which I'm pretty sure is the point.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 28, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> It was okay.
> 
> A little too much "haha you're aquaman isn't that funny!?" kind of stuff in there. A little too much aquaman talking like a badass and not enough aquaman being a badass.



It seems like DC want to make the character badass in the eyes of the general public (those who've read aquaman know he can be pretty awesome and badass at times)


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 28, 2011)

~Gesy~ said:


> this is great news since DC was going down under for awhile.
> 
> 
> I guess "when in doubt reboot everything" worked for them.



I don't think they were actually going under (That's been a long rumor which is never really supported), but there's a point about making a move when there is still a move to make.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 28, 2011)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> "I'll have the fish and chips"
> 
> 
> 
> besides me who has read aquaman?



It was a pretty funny issue to me. "How does it feel to be no one's favorite hero?" 

Aquaman was good. Glad I picked it up over the Batgirl issue that they finally restocked. He already managed to be a character I'm interested in seeing develop if his conversation with his wife was anything to go off of.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

People should read Flash. It was good too. Very good, even.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> People should read Flash. It was good too. Very good, even.



I did read this before I read Aquaman. It was probably among my favorites for this week in terms of what I got my hands on. I really enjoyed Barry's inner monologue towards the end of the issue.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 28, 2011)

I think that the most encouraging thing is that almost all the big Justice League character titles (outside of Wonder Woman... for now) have cracked 100,000. To me, it's great to see that people are interested in the big heroes of the universe.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 28, 2011)

it is?  I'm really not optimistic about Manapul's writing but I'll give it a shot


----------



## Cromer (Sep 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> People should read Flash. It was good too. Very good, even.



So people keep saying. And I thought it would be another Tony S. Daniel-sized bust. Still, not picking it up.


----------



## Gallant (Sep 28, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I think that the most encouraging thing is that almost all the big Justice League character titles (outside of Wonder Woman... for now) have cracked 100,000. To me, it's great to see that people are interested in the big heroes of the universe.



Kind of odd she hasn't cracked 100,000 considering how often she gets put on the same level as Batman and Superman. You would think she'd be up there with them.


----------



## Gunners (Sep 28, 2011)

Speaking of Superboy prime, what happened to him just before Teen Titans got a reboot. I swear they beat him black and blue but that cannot be right.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

Parallax said:


> it is?  I'm really not optimistic about Manapul's writing but I'll give it a shot



I wasn't either but it was pretty good. And the art was great.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 28, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Speaking of Superboy prime, what happened to him just before Teen Titans got a reboot. I swear they beat him black and blue but that cannot be right.



They Beat him and then stuck him to the Source Wall


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 28, 2011)

I liked Voodoo.

And Aquaman was pretty good.


----------



## Gunners (Sep 28, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> They Beat him and then stuck him to the Source Wall


I saw it it's just that my eyes don't believe it. Has he been drastically depowered?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 28, 2011)

Gunners said:


> I saw it it's just that my eyes don't believe it. Has he been drastically depowered?



I assume he has been, he showed up out of nowhere to be the final boss fight for the Titans...


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 28, 2011)

I just read Hawkman. Where the hell was the brutality? There were only 2 deaths and Hawkman didn't even do it. Disappointed/10.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 28, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I just read Hawkman. Where the hell was the brutality? There were only 2 deaths and Hawkman didn't even do it. Disappointed/10.



Say it ain't so!


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

I kinda expected that in the first issue. 

BTW it might just be me but I'm looking forward to month 2 since all the introduction stuff will be out of the way more


----------



## Glued (Sep 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> hahaha
> 
> you could always get it online



Thanks for the advice.


Okay, Aquaman was pretty cool. I like how Geoff made him grow up on land. 

Though he seems to be ignorant about Squids. Squids and cephalopods, especially Octopus are very intelligent.

Hawkman...what the hell. Daniels said that there would be head chopping and body dismemberment.

What is this shit?

Grimm is disappoint.


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 28, 2011)

I loved Aquaman and Flash.

Haven't read Hawkman yet, but I figured the introductory issue wouldn't have enough blood. It  will have to wait


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 28, 2011)

So i've read Aquaman and Teen Titans so far this week. both have been good.

Aquaman was a more solid issue, but Teen Titans once again tells me that Tim should be the one to replace Babs as the Mission Control for the superhero community...also nice cameos from Raven, Miss Martian and Static.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 28, 2011)

I really liked Aquaman. Probably my favorite of the week so far from the 5 that I had read.

Batman: The Dark Knight was kind of awful IMO.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 28, 2011)

Platinum said:


> I really liked Aquaman. Probably my favorite of the week so far from the 5 that I had read.
> 
> Batman: The Dark Knight was kind of awful IMO.



It confuses as to why they even brought The Dark Knight back...it's not like the original was any good...even taking into account the delays.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 28, 2011)

And you know you guys would of been disappointed with Hawkman no matter what considering how much you guys hyped it up .

But I am disappointed at the lack of brutality, I thought it was supposed to have a new name .


----------



## Platinum (Sep 28, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> It confuses as to why they even brought The Dark Knight back...it's not like the original was any good...even taking into account the delays.



The plot was boring and all over the place, the dialogue was hideous, the twist was uninteresting, and the art was just fugly to the extreme, at least the faces were.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 28, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> It confuses as to why they even brought The Dark Knight back...it's not like the original was any good...even taking into account the delays.



Thus bringing more proof to the table that DC's hiring policy is basically that of an old boys' club. 


And Voodoo was good. Cheesecake without detracting from the character on topic. Scott Lobdell, take note


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 28, 2011)

Cromer said:


> And Voodoo was good. Cheesecake without detracting from the character on topic. Scott Lobdell, take note



The book is Red Hood and the Outlaws not Starfire and the Outlaws


----------



## Glued (Sep 28, 2011)

Poor Aquaman, he just wanted to sit down and have some fish & chips. That blogger just wouldn't stop annoying him.

Seriously how dumb do you have to be, that you would annoy a guy with a six foot trident.

However it was nice how he gave the waitress that gold tip. Reminded me of how Namor once went into a store, took some clothes and dropped frikken pearls into the owners hands.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 28, 2011)

Yeah if I was Aquaman I would of kicked that bloggers ass lol.

I really dug the flash as well, mostly for the art though.


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Sep 28, 2011)

Does anyone know what Connor Hawke is up to now?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 28, 2011)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Does anyone know what Connor Hawke is up to now?



He probably doesn't exist anymoe since it looks like Ollie got de-aged


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 28, 2011)

Sooo...did anybody else not like Fury of Firestorm...


----------



## illmatic (Sep 28, 2011)

Can't go wrong with Fish & Chips


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

I actually enjoyed Hawkman, simple though it was. I can't get over that hawkman actually looks cool for once


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I actually enjoyed Hawkman, simple though it was. I can't get over that hawkman actually looks cool for once



Same here it's probably one of my favorites this week.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 28, 2011)

I went to the store and ended up buying the Sinestro Corps War Book for 24.99 lol.  It wasnt HC or an Absolute but damn it if I didnt want it all.

I also browsed through Aquaman and Flash.  I like both really but was a bit dissapointed with the Flash especially considering what happened in Flashpoint.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

There's kind of a shockingly and impossibly high number of books with really good art in the relaunch despite there not being very many new pencilers... I wonder if all that effort to recruit new talent was actually to get good colorists on board


----------



## Penance (Sep 28, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Sooo...did anybody else not like Fury of Firestorm...



I...I'm not sure, yet.  I feel like it'll be something that I'll read for everything but the character developments-but it's issue one, so who knows?  

Once the action got to the school, I started to like it...

I really want to like it, though...


Teen Titans, on the other hand...totally content with dropping it...


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

Firestorm was weirdly brutal even for Simone.

Teen Titans was perfectly serviceable even with the meh art. And it doesn't look like it'll be doing all the crap I hate about Teen Titans like a T-shaped tower or calling themselves a 'family (uuggggghghhhhh) or any of that lameness. So decent writing + gets rid of crap I hate = best teen titans issue evar


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 28, 2011)

Superman needs a new writer asap...because it took half an issue for me be annoyed at the Perez's narrative


----------



## Platinum (Sep 28, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Sooo...did anybody else not like Fury of Firestorm...



I hate whenever an issue concerning race is poorly handled in any form of media. "Why don't we have black friends." GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 28, 2011)

I was dissapointed by Hawkman not meeting my insanely high expectations of blood in every panel. Still, I'll keep reading. Great art and badass character.

All-Star Western was amazing. One of my favorite books of the week.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

Btw, anyone else think "holy shit aquaman can jump!"


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 28, 2011)

Haven't gone through my list yet, but Aquaman and Flash were wonderful. This is the first Flash story that's come out since I started reading comics that didn't feel completely forced. He introduced the cast pretty quickly and the art... oh, the art! And Aquaman was great. Loved the characterization of Arthur, and Reis certainly gave him a truly regal air about him: How he stares down the truck, stands over the gunman, even how he ordered fish and chips. He just comes off as so damned composed, and you honestly feel like he's a real damn king.

I'm not sure if they were the "best" books of the relaunch, but I felt like there was a real sense of reinvention and freshness to these books more than any other.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

It was a better week than I expected thats for sure.

I didn't really get regalness from him though, I thought he kinda came across as depressed.


----------



## Glued (Sep 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Btw, anyone else think "holy shit aquaman can jump!"



He always had good jump.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 28, 2011)

Its okay Aquaman. After this issue your my second favorite DC hero...after the Goddamn Batman/Nightwing.

Jesus Christ that man lost a ton of his pride at that seafood restaurant. Cant help but feel sad for the guy.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Btw, anyone else think "holy shit aquaman can jump!"



I thought he was channelling Golden Age Superman in that panel.


And now that I've killed my sister's iPad, I can say something I've noticed across all the nu52 books I've read: no bad art. Like Petes12 said, everyone's putting out career-best work with the relaunch (except March on Catwoman, whose anatomy seems to have twisted in on him). Even Travel Foreman on Animal Man, I liked halfway, and tolerated half.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> He always had good jump.



I've never read aquaman before, outside of brightest day and some of morrison's JLA.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 28, 2011)

Teen Titans actually aint all that bad...I might actually say that I liked it.

Tim Drake was actually still a badass. The wings dont look _quite as dumb_ as they did before either.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

Cromer said:


> And now that I've killed my sister's iPad, I can say something I've noticed across all the nu52 books I've read: no bad art. Like Petes12 said, everyone's putting out career-best work with the relaunch (except March on Catwoman, whose anatomy seems to have twisted in on him). Even Travel Foreman on Animal Man, I liked halfway, and tolerated half.



Hawk and Dove, obviously, and Green Arrow and JLI. But for the most part it really did feel like the artists were putting their absolute best foot forward. Hawkman was leagues better than Tan's Green Lantern or Batman and Robin for example. 

And I already liked Manapul's Flash art last time around, but he managed to blow himself out of the water somehow.


----------



## Penance (Sep 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Firestorm was weirdly brutal even for Simone.





SageMaster said:


> I was dissapointed by Hawkman not meeting my insanely high expectations of blood in every panel. Still, I'll keep reading. Great art and badass character.





Platinum said:


> I hate whenever an issue concerning race is poorly handled in any form of media. "Why don't we have black friends." GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN



Yeah...hopefully it won't be an ongoing thing in this series...

I like how Firestorm was more brutal than Hawkman...





Petes12 said:


> It was a better week than I expected thats for sure.
> 
> I didn't really get regalness from him though, I thought he kinda came across as depressed.






typhoon72 said:


> Its okay Aquaman. After this issue your my second favorite DC hero...after the Goddamn Batman/Nightwing.
> 
> Jesus Christ that man lost a ton of his pride at that seafood restaurant. Cant help but feel sad for the guy.



Oh, no.  He was indignant...   The guy was just losing his temper...


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Hawk and Dove, obviously,* and Green Arrow and JLI.* But for the most part it really did feel like the artists were putting their absolute best foot forward. Hawkman was leagues better than Tan's Green Lantern or Batman and Robin for example.
> 
> And I already liked Manapul's Flash art last time around, but he managed to blow himself out of the water somehow.



Oh, come _on_. Jurgens art isn't fantastic, but it's not bad. The only art I thought was really distracting was Mr. Terrific; I was sort of okay with that book, but the art made it hard for me to want to pick up again.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

It is awful and generic and waaaaay too old fashioned. The guy needs to reinvent his style or get out of the business. 

Oh yeah Mister Terrific's art was bad too. 

JLI's art was ok in the middle but at the start and end it really bugged me.


----------



## Glued (Sep 28, 2011)

They're murlocs in Aquaman

[YOUTUBE]IHgRAlkpxJw[/YOUTUBE]

And considering the blogger in the Aquaman comic. I'm guess Geoff has been on youtube.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 28, 2011)

I, Vampire.



I am SO getting this in paper, damn the plot. The art is simply awesome. Frame worthy. I can't tell you that you'll enjoy the story, but the art is beyond awesome.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

It actually got a 9.0 on IGN, makes me think I should check it out after all.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 28, 2011)

That art  

The art just jumped out at me when I saw the preview


----------



## Platinum (Sep 28, 2011)

The art in I, Vampire really was fucking incredible.

Also read JL Dark. Pretty good, not great but good.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 28, 2011)

All Star Western was cool.

LOL Firestorm. The villains were a joke.


----------



## Mael (Sep 28, 2011)

I was quite surprised to see...

*Spoiler*: __ 



Barry NOT with Iris (even if the cameo is there)...but overall Flash was fucking fantastic.  The transformation, his character, Manuel, his typical Flash inner monologues, all wonderful.

Alas, no Wally, but I'm not bummed.


----------



## Penance (Sep 28, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> All Star Western was cool.
> 
> LOL Firestorm. The villains were a joke.



lol, their villains aren't even villain status, yet...


----------



## illmatic (Sep 28, 2011)

Its not like it was a secret that the marriage of Barry & Iris is no more. As much of a secret that Lois & Clark are no more.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 28, 2011)

Aquaman is still married. 



Penance said:


> lol, their villains aren't even villain status, yet...



They are so baaaaaaad they kill families and burn blooooocks.

*rolls eyes*


----------



## Blinky (Sep 28, 2011)

This was my first time reading anything with Jonah Hex in it, does he wear that uniform just to piss people off ?


----------



## Mael (Sep 28, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Aquaman is still married.
> 
> They are so baaaaaaad they kill families and burn blooooocks.
> 
> *rolls eyes*



Those poor blocks.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

she means a neighborhood block, they were definitely overthetop brutal in a way that was kinda comical.


----------



## Penance (Sep 28, 2011)

Mael said:


> Those poor blocks.



"Mom...Why don't we have any Block friends?"


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 28, 2011)

Blinky said:


> This was my first time reading anything with Jonah Hex in it, does he wear that uniform just to piss people off ?



I think he keeps as a sign of the man he was or something similar...I'm not that knowledgable on Hex, but I do know he was a confederate soldier.

Speaking of the book though it's another keeper, and i'm hoping it will stick around.

I vampire and Voodoo are about the only books Ihaven't read yet, I'm not sure if I'm interested enough in them.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> It actually got a 9.0 on IGN, makes me think I should check it out after all.



I only notice IGN scores nowadays when they're too high or too low, 9.0 barely makes it in for that.



Gunners said:


> I saw it it's just that my eyes don't believe it. Has he been drastically depowered?



Even during IC Conner could split his lip, lolpower levels I know but I prefer him more as a Titans villain than a Crisis/Corps threat if he has to keep resurfacing at all.

Finch is getting on my nerves now.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 28, 2011)

Penance said:


> "Mom...Why don't we have any Block friends?"



Blocks have feelings too


----------



## Mael (Sep 28, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Blocks have feelings too



They're a bunch of blockcists. 

Could be worse though...could be block-on-block crime.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 28, 2011)

Fire storm and New Guardians has allot of potential


----------



## MrChubz (Sep 28, 2011)

Aquaman - Awesome. Read it.
Hawkman - Butsality has a new name. Where?
Teen Titans - Good stuff. Kid Flash has shit for brains, Tim Drake is badass, and Wonder Girl is tough. It has some good potential.
JL Dark - I thought it was pretty good. It may not be for everyone though.
Flash - Despite it having Barry Allen, it was super. Still, Barry Allen/10
Superman - The first half is decent. The second half won't load no matter how many times I try.


----------



## Penance (Sep 28, 2011)

*I'm sticking with:* Wonder Woman, Resurrection Man, Red Hood and the Outlaws, [I,] Vampire, Green Lantern Corps, Animal Man, Stormwatch, Action Comics, Aquaman, Justice League Dark, Men of War, Static Shock, The Flash 


*Keeping my eye on:* Demon Knights, Firestorm, Superboy, Green Lantern, Batman

*Worst read:* Mister Terrific


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 28, 2011)

I'm dropping JLI, Fury of Firestorm, Green Arrow, Mister Terrific, Detective Comics (For now), Red Hood (Again for now) and Suicide Squad

I'm Keeping Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Savage Hawkman, Action Comics, Supergirl, Batman, Batgirl, Batwoman, Nightwing, Green Lantern & Corps, Animal Man, Frankenstien, Demon Knights, Deathstroke, All Star Western and Blue Beetle.

I'll keep and eye on Justice League, Superboy, Legion of Superheroes, Teen Titans, Stormwatch, DC Universe Presents and Men at War

Course with those dropped i'll be picking up the Huntress and the Penguin mini series that's coming out next month...as well as the new The Shade series


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 28, 2011)

Teen Titans was actually good! I'm kind of ridiculously stunned by that. Loved the characterization of Tim, who was pretty badass but at the same time kind of a dork, particularly in his reply to Wondy's homeschool jab. KF was exactly what I wanted him to be, and wonder girl now actually seems interesting again. If anything though her personality is more like YJ wondy than TT wondy, which is great.

Can't wait for next month to see Superboy and RR and co. throw down.

But far and away, Flash was the best book this week. Manapul wrote a fairly engaging story with HOLYFUCKAWESOMEWTF art.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

Yeah I think Flash was my favorite too, totally for the art, there were just too many cool things he did, so many cool pages. But the story was good in a back to basics way too.


----------



## Bluebeard (Sep 28, 2011)

Just got back from the comic store...

Picked up All-Star Western, Aquaman, Batman: The Dark Knight, The Fury of Firestorm, I Vampire, The Savage Hawkman, and Voodoo. Of course, Flash, GL: New Guardians, and JLD were sold out. 

*Voodoo:* Very good. I know it's going to get a lot of flak for being 'cheesecake', but there is a story and mystery. The mystery is really the most intriguing thing. I know hardly anything about Voodoo, besides the fact that she's a Wildstorm character. So the transformation came as a suprise. Her 'enemy', Agent Fallon is incredibly badass as well. Looking forward to the next issue.

*The Savage Hawkman:* Dissapointed. Brutality has a new name my ass. I knew the entire first issue wouldn't just be gore, but when I'm promised mindless violence I want it! Doesn't help that the story is absolute garbage. A boring villain who can only be described as 'Alien Venom but with wings'. Incredibly confusing with the first page and it just gets even more incomprehendable. Only redeemable thing was the beautiful art. Hawkman's costume looked truly epic when it finally showed up.

*I, Vampire:* I was skeptical. Vampires have become a tired thing in fiction, which was why I hesitated to pick this up. Only reason why I did was because while flipping through the pages, I was drawn in by the art. The art is the main pull, but it also has a decent story to go with it. Basically, a rising army of vampires is on the rise, ready to take over the world. I like how everything is being connected, what with Superman and Green Lantern being mentioned as threats to the vampire army. Look forward to the next issue and more great art.

*The Fury of the Firestorm:* Eh? I'm a fan of the character, but I just wasn't feeling it. Weird because Simone was writing and I'm usually a fan of her work. The villains look boring and drab, I'm not really intimidated by them torturing a family either. The art is very nice as well. Let's just say it looks truly fiery when see Firestorm. Besides that, the racial issue... God, it's annoying, just like in Mr. T. "Mom, why don't we have any black friends?" Do we really need that? That in particular just irked me. 

*Batman: The Dark Knight:* Terrible. Firstly, it's just boring as fuck. We get the typical Batman speech about fear. Nothing really original. Then we see Bruce give another speech. We're introduced to two new characters. I forgot the woman's name (she seems similar to Talia, though) and Forbes, who is actually pretty cool. He appears to be investigating Bruce Wayne. Too bad I want continue reading to see what else will happen. When I saw One-Face, I just gave up...

*Aquaman:* Ah, my favorite superhero's book! Aquaman was badass and one thing I noticed throughout the issue, he's pissed and got a huge chip on his shoulder. Probably because of responsibilities... Anyway, while a few of the Aquaman jokes were funny, I feel as if we spent way too much time on the fact that people think Aquaman sucks. We get it. The Trench look pretty cool, which was why I kind of got dissapointed that they didn't clash at least once. It was nice to see Mera as well. Pretty great, looking forward to that next issue.

*All-Star Western:* Suprise! A major suprise IMO since I honestly wasn't expecting this to be good. I'm a fan of Jonah Hex, but still didn't have much faith. Only picked it up because of Buy 1 get 1 free deal. Great comic, though. I loved the two narratives shown in the story between Jonah and Amadeus (we get little hints of his mother's madness). I also liked how they dropped names like Cobblepot and Wayne. Finally, the art is perfect for this book. Not really dreary, but it fits well.


----------



## Blinky (Sep 28, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I think he keeps as a sign of the man he was or something similar...I'm not that knowledgable on Hex, but I do know he was a confederate soldier.
> 
> Speaking of the book though it's another keeper, and i'm hoping it will stick around.



Well before the reboot Jonah had a series that was running for 70 issues so I guess it's safe enough from cancellation.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 28, 2011)

ok you guys all convinced me with luck I will get The Flash on friday


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Sep 28, 2011)

Not having a comic book store close to where I live is killing me right now.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 28, 2011)

Holy shit Teen Titans!


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

I will say this about Teen Titans, I loved that Bart just elbows some innocent reporter at superspeed to make her drop her mic so he can use it.


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 28, 2011)

They are definitely taking alot from the YJ cartoon


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 28, 2011)

I read somewhere that Lobdell hasn't watched a single episode


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I read somewhere that Lobdell hasn't watched a single episode



hmmm makes me wonder how much DC has their fingers in the pot then


----------



## Blinky (Sep 28, 2011)

I like that what Kid Flash is wearing looks homemade.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 28, 2011)

Gallant said:


> Kind of odd she hasn't cracked 100,000 considering how often she gets put on the same level as Batman and Superman. You would think she'd be up there with them.



Possible that not all titles got equal print runs. If all were equal then the fact that all titles sold out would mean we would have lots more titles who sold over 100,000. Wonder Women maybe also was under ordered by retailers.

I surmise that retailers send their orders to Diamond and that lets DC know how much to initially print


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> hmmm makes me wonder how much DC has their fingers in the pot then



What about it seemed young justicey to you? Besides the cast obviously.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2011)

Gallant said:


> Kind of odd she hasn't cracked 100,000 considering how often she gets put on the same level as Batman and Superman. You would think she'd be up there with them.



You can't blame the quality this time. Just comes down to women characters being less popular, guys connect easier with guy characters and most readers are guys.

Just look at marvel, the only ongoing female character they can support solo is wolverine's hooker clone


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 29, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> What about it seemed young justicey to you? Besides the cast obviously.



Bart being Dumb as shit
SuperBoy
a mysterious organization being set up as the antagonists


----------



## Blinky (Sep 29, 2011)

mysterious organisation seems to be in a lot of books.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 29, 2011)

To be fair, in team books its usually always some big mysterious organization that forms the group. That or some huge super villain terrorist attack, like in New Avengers v1.


----------



## Sephiroth (Sep 29, 2011)

Only thing I'm gonna drop for now is Hawk and Dove.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 29, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> To be fair, in team books its usually always some big mysterious organization that forms the group. That or some huge super villain terrorist attack, like in New Avengers v1.



Or like Loki, going back several (tens of) years.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 29, 2011)

Aquaman is still my favorite of the week of all the ones I have read.

Though I have yet to read The Savage Hawkman .


----------



## Zen-aku (Sep 29, 2011)

i cant decide if i liked Teen Titans or Firestorm better


----------



## Penance (Sep 29, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> i cant decide if i liked Teen Titans or Firestorm better



Once you get past the fact that they seem to be giving the villains origin stories right alongside the heroes, Firestorm seem to have a lot of potential coming it's way...Hrm...We'll see about Teen Titans, though...


----------



## Cromer (Sep 29, 2011)

With Teen Titans and Superboy, Lobdell has really surprised me.


----------



## Glued (Sep 29, 2011)

Hawkman is fightng venom.
Two face has become like venom

Venom, venom everywhere.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 29, 2011)

Cromer said:


> With Teen Titans and Superboy, Lobdell has really surprised me.



Yup yup.

I didn't like Teen Titans as much as I liked Superboy, but it was still pretty good. The art needs work though. It's got a lot of energy behind it, which is nice, but he needs to work on his facial expressions and emotions.


----------



## Penance (Sep 29, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Hawkman is fightng venom.
> Two face has become like venom
> 
> Venom, venom everywhere.



You said 90s, you got 90's...


----------



## Parallax (Sep 29, 2011)

hey Grimm did you ever find the issues you were looking for?

you should just order them online if you can't get them by tomorrow


----------



## Cromer (Sep 29, 2011)

Penance said:


> You said 90s, you got 90's...



TDK is boring 90s, Hawkman has the potential to be awesome 90's 

Having said that, maybe I should read TDK b4 I judge...nah,


----------



## Cromer (Sep 29, 2011)

And interesting how kids' ideas differ from us jaded old 20+ year olds


----------



## Penance (Sep 29, 2011)

Cromer said:


> And interesting how kids' ideas differ from us jaded old 20+ year olds



Even he like what Wonder Woman has become...


----------



## Cromer (Sep 29, 2011)

Penance said:


> Even he like what Wonder Woman has become...





DC needs to print more Wonder Woman


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2011)

Cromer said:


> And interesting how kids' ideas differ from us jaded old 20+ year olds



and yet how similar... at least to me, I laughed at some of the stuff like "I like how green lantern was a jerk it fits him well" or whatever, pretty much the 10 year old version of what i've said.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 29, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> and yet how similar... at least to me, I laughed at some of the stuff like "I like how green lantern was a jerk it fits him well" or whatever, pretty much the 10 year old version of what i've said.



I know, right?

At his age I was into similar, for similar reasons. Now though? It's all 'blah' for me.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2011)

I liked pretty much all his favorite DC stuff other than red lanterns. His dislike for GLC was funny though.


----------



## Glued (Sep 29, 2011)

Parallax said:


> hey Grimm did you ever find the issues you were looking for?
> 
> you should just order them online if you can't get them by tomorrow



Yep, I bought em online.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 29, 2011)

What would be funny is when Grimm goes to his oceanography class.  His professor has the Aquaman Issue and Grimm still hasn't :lol

And from that kid video.  I can imagine that if you try to explain to him GLC War.  He would just say.

"So Hal Jordan just ended up shooting him through the chest? and he died?"

"Well why didn't he just do that in the first place? Why did he have take up so many issues just to do that"


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2011)

no he didnt like GLC 1 because it was all talking


----------



## Shadow (Sep 29, 2011)

I know what Im saying is if you try and explain the Green Lantern War which was the last arc.

You would look like an idiot because the end was so artistically beautiful but also dumbfounded.  

Because in the end you would say "So Krona died when Hal Jordan shot a green blast through his chest"  

In which the kid would just PROBABLY respond "why didnt he just do that in the first place? Did they have to gather up energy somewhere to do that?" Nope. "So Why?" It's Hal Jordan He's Silver Age lol


----------



## Glued (Sep 29, 2011)

Hal Jordan killed a universal threat. Suspension of disbelief has gone through the window.

The next time the Justice League meets.

Superman: How do we beat Darkseid.
Batman: We send in Hal.
Aquaman: A 5th dimensional Imp is attacking Atlantis.
Batman: We send in Hal.
Wonder Woman: Gaia, Mother of Earth will destroy all of humanity.
Batman: We send in Hal.
Cyborg: Trigon is reality warping the entire universe.
Batman: We send in Hal.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2011)

He was always powerful. He's not allowed to defeat his own villains now?


----------



## Glued (Sep 29, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> He was always powerful. He's not allowed to defeat his own villains now?



Krona had all the entities under his command.
Krona had all the rings of the emotional magnetic spectrum
Krona was a guardian. 

Hal should be able to solo just about anything right now.

Maybe Geoff could have made it less stupid, by giving Hal a power-up, but he didn't.

Using just a green ring, Hal beat Krona. He just blasted straight through him.

That was like Jeph Loeb's creation, whom I shall not name, punching the Watcher.


----------



## Penance (Sep 29, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Krona had all the entities under his command.
> Krona had all the rings of the emotional magnetic spectrum
> Krona was a guardian.
> 
> ...



He did get a power up-Hal flew into the sun summoned all of his willpower...


----------



## Parallax (Sep 29, 2011)

who cares

cause I sure didn


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2011)

The entities were in the other guardians. Hal's willpower is over 9000. There was precedent for him being able to hurt krona even when Ion was under his direct control. 

Everyone bitched that Johns never showed us what made Hal the greatest GL and that he didn't seem like anything special. Now he shows you and you bitch about that


----------



## Glued (Sep 29, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> The entities were in the other guardians. Hal's willpower is over 9000. There was precedent for him being able to hurt krona even when Ion was under his direct control.
> 
> Everyone bitched that Johns never showed us what made Hal the greatest GL and that he didn't seem like anything special. Now he shows you and you bitch about that



Krona had all the rings. He could have leached away Hal's power by using the orange lantern ring. He could have corroded Hal's power by using the Red Lantern ring. By combining the blue and green lantern ring, Krona could have maxed himself out. 

The Green Lantern ring has a built in mechanism by the guardians that prevents the bearer from harming a guardian. How did Hal do it, Hal's willpower allows him to break said mechanism. Even the guardians were like, wut?

Anytime Hal meets a problem, just use Will. All done.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 29, 2011)

And that is why he is officially regarded as a manga character now by me.  I mean seriously when Guy Gardner had the red lantern ring it took Mogo, A Star Sapphire, Kilowog, Vat, Isamot, Kyle, Kyle's GF etc to just put him down.

Krona all rings, all entities.  Just blast him through by Hal.  

And as far as Hal one shotting everything.  He can't DO EVERYTHING.  Otherwise, what the hell is Flash Barry Allen going to do with a multiverse. LMAO


----------



## Cromer (Sep 29, 2011)

Shadow said:


> And that is why he is officially regarded as a manga character now by me.  I mean seriously when Guy Gardner had the red lantern ring it took Mogo, A Star Sapphire, Kilowog, Vat, Isamot, Kyle, Kyle's GF etc to just put him down.
> 
> Krona all rings, all entities.  Just blast him through by Hal.
> 
> And as far as Hal one shotting everything.  He can't DO EVERYTHING.  Otherwise, what the hell is Flash Barry Allen going to do with a multiverse. LMAO



Looking back, you have to be almost scared at what Aquaman is going to become:

GL Hal Jordan: Raped a mad Guardian empowered with all seven colored rings, controlling all the entities, and *having the Green Lantern Corps on a doggie leash*, with nothing but 'Will'. Universal threat lolol.

Flash Barry Allen: Rewrote all of reality just cause 

Arthur Curry Aquaman: ???


PROFIT!


----------



## SageMaster (Sep 29, 2011)

Aquaman will evolve into AQUAGOD.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 29, 2011)

He's going to do such a good job that there will be an Aquaman Movie starring the REAL Vincent Chase.  ROFL :ROFL


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2011)

its not like he can do it regularly, talk about making a big deal out of nothing. must i explain again why power levels are stupid? 

here's an analogy. you can have all the body armor in the world, dual wielding gatling guns with lightsaber bayonets, and someone with a pistol can still kill you.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 29, 2011)

but that's not what it is at all....

look I think it's dumb too but your analogy is just as silly


----------



## Parallax (Sep 29, 2011)

it's more like let's say you're a tank and everyone around only has pistols.  That's it.  there are no machine guns there are no grenades there's nothing else

and inside you got a co pilot with an M4 ready for any smart ass trying to hop the tank and break in


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2011)

That's debatable but the main point is simply that fights don't come down to 'power level' outside of DBZ.

And there was precedent for it.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 29, 2011)

I'm agreeing with you

just the analogy could have been better petes that's all


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2011)

I don't think it gets better than dual wielding gatling guns with lightsaber bayonets parallax


----------



## Parallax (Sep 29, 2011)

for visuals sure 

but not for what Grimm and the others are complaining about


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2011)

that was a joke 

i dont really think theres enough info to decide whether krona had a metaphoric tank or not.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 29, 2011)

I can never tell when you joke :[


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 29, 2011)

I think Petes is my hero for the day. 

Also, are we sure he's absolutely resilient against these things? For all we know, the only thing that was really saving his butt was the Prime Directive #4 they put in there.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2011)

i dont think i make that hard parallax :\

and thanks guy


----------



## Parallax (Sep 29, 2011)

sometimes you do

not always


----------



## Slice (Sep 29, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I don't think it gets better than dual wielding gatling guns with lightsaber bayonets parallax



Ot does!


----------



## Cromer (Sep 29, 2011)

Slice said:


> Ot does!



We should just close this thread and start a new one, that's how much this post wins. TVTropes?


----------



## Glued (Sep 29, 2011)

Those are not nunchuks

These are nunchuks


----------



## Taleran (Sep 29, 2011)

Man last week goes out with a whimper. At least Flash was really damn good or this week would entirely be a let down.

So for me the top of the pile would be: Action Comics, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Flash, Swamp Thing and Animal Man and almost OMAC


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2011)

lack of batman on that list is suspect


----------



## illmatic (Sep 29, 2011)

I think alot of these these titles that didn't wow in the 1st issue will just read better in TPB.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 29, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> lack of batman on that list is suspect



None of the Batman books really grabbed me when I went back to them, I guess I may just be Batman'd out for a while.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2011)

i was very specifically talking about the snyder book but thats fair


----------



## illmatic (Sep 29, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _DC Second Prints… Third Prints… Fourth Prints…_ 



October 19th

• Batman #1 Second Printing
• Birds of Prey #1 Second Printing
• Blue Beetle #1 Second Printing
• Captain Atom #1 Second Printing
• Catwoman #1 Second Printin
• DC Universe Presents #1 Second Printing
• Green Lantern Corps #1 Second Printing
• Legion of Super Heroes #1 Second Printing
• Nightwing #1 Second Printing
• Red Hood and the Outlaws #1 Second Printing
• Supergirl #1 Second Printing
• Wonder Woman #1 Second Printing

October 12th:

• Action Comics #1 Third Printing
• Batgirl #1 Third Printing
• Batman And Robin #1 Second Printing
• Batwoman #1 Second Printing
• Deathstroke #1 Second Printing
• Demon Knights #1 Second Printing
• Frankenstein, Agent Of S.H.A.D.E. #1 Second Printing
• Green Lantern #1 Second Printing
• Grifter #1 Second Printing
• Justice League #1 Combo Pack Third Printing
• Legion Lost #1 Second Printing
• Mister Terrific #1 Second Printing
• Resurrection Man #1 Second Printing
• Suicide Squad #1 Second Printing
• Superboy #1 Second Printing

October 5th

• Animal Man #1 Second Printing
• Batwing #1 Second Printing
• Detective Comics #1 Second Printing
• Green Arrow #1 Second Printing
• Hawk and Dove #1 Second Printing
• Justice League International #1 Second Printing
• Men of War #1 Second Printing
• O.M.A.C. #1 Second Printing
• Red Lanterns #1 Second Printing
• Static Shock #1 Second Printing
• Stormwatch #1 Second Printing
• Swamp Thing #1 Second Printing


Via


----------



## MB99 (Oct 1, 2011)

*Static Shock #2 Preview*



5 page preview for the 2nd issue of Static. Apparently Static can absorb electric energy to heal himself....cool!


----------



## mali (Oct 1, 2011)

I thought that disk thing was gonna go straight through static lol.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 1, 2011)

that page where he pulls his arm back together is pretty cool

i want an action comics preview


----------



## Penance (Oct 1, 2011)

MB99 said:


> 5 page preview for the 2nd issue of Static. Apparently Static can absorb electric energy to heal himself....cool!



*Pleeease still be good after issue four *


----------



## Glued (Oct 1, 2011)

awe, no gore. he got his arm  back

Grimm is sad


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 1, 2011)

maybe wonder woman is the best book for you ben

lolredtornado


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 1, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> maybe wonder woman is the best book for you ben
> 
> lolredtornado



I'd like to think that Tornado meant to go there as John Smith, forgot he was still in costume, and simply told everyone that he's just really, really serious about Red Tornado Cosplay.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 1, 2011)

He has a secret identity?


----------



## Cromer (Oct 1, 2011)

Get ready for tl;dr.

So the New 52 is finally up. A lotta people are gonna say a lot of things regarding various individual books, creators, and whatnot. I'm more interested in the approach DC seems to have taken in its storytelling.

For example: Action Comics. DC must have gone 'When was Superman most successful? Golden Age? Let's do Golden Age Superman again then! ' Meanwhile Justice League is hewing to the turn of the millenium style in decompression.

Silver Age fever seems to have gotten to a lot of DC titles, e.g. Green Arrow, Justice League International, Superman etc are all chanelling the Silver Ageyness.  Resurrection Man, Sgt Rock and their ilk seem to be recalling the post DKR/Watchmen days, and Hawkman, Voodoo, Static Shock (please continue being awesome ), and Hawk and Dove all seem to be going for that 90s  flavor. Hell, the 2000s are ably represented by I, Vampire and Batwoman.

And then some titles just don't sit any of my stupid made-up niches. Animal Man,  Demon Knights etc They are rather in the direction of salding everything up, or in the case of Demon, doing something the Big 2 have tended to avoid: high fantasy.

And I've started rambling, so I'll just ask y'all to chip in and say what you thought stood out for you in the reboot.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 1, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> He has a secret identity?



Yeah. John Smith. He has a human-looking disguise, too.


----------



## Glued (Oct 1, 2011)

At the end of the Red Tornado mini, he decides to be open about who he is and go to his daughter's talent show.

How many people can say that they're dad is a superhero?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 1, 2011)

thats really his daughter? lol

worst character ever


----------



## Whimsy (Oct 1, 2011)

Man, I just read Demon Knights. Lovely stuff.


----------



## Glued (Oct 1, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> thats really his daughter? lol
> 
> worst character ever



She's adopted, Big Red obviously can't reproduce biologically due to being wind spirit trapped in a robot.


----------



## Memos (Oct 1, 2011)

Whimsy said:


> Man, I just read Demon Knights. Lovely stuff.


I really hope this one takes off and we see it going more and more into the magical enemies and monsters they could have.

The group fighting things like massive dragons could look pretty cool.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 1, 2011)

Demon Knights and Frankenstein are the two underdog books I want to succeed.

They have much potential for epicness.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 1, 2011)

Demon Knights, yes.


Frankenstein, ehhh...


----------



## Memos (Oct 1, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Demon Knights and Frankenstein are the two underdog books I want to succeed.
> 
> They have much potential for epicness.



I really like what Animal Man is setting up as it could be epic in a very graphic sense. I've never read an Animal Man title before and this was easily my favourite of the 52.


----------



## Whimsy (Oct 1, 2011)

Yeah Animal Man was also great. I'd put those two as my top 2.

Wonder Woman also caught my interest.


----------



## Memos (Oct 1, 2011)

Wonder Woman really interested me because of the character designs. I hope it keeps that up with all of the other gods it should have.

What did you think of Aquaman and Swamp Thing?


----------



## Cash (Oct 1, 2011)

Find myself liking alot of this weeks comics. Justice League Dark the besto.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 1, 2011)

Animal Man, Animal Man...

There's a lot of people I'm gonna hate if poor sales causes this to get canceled, only for them to come out of the woodwork baying for blood.  


' If you like the damned book so much, why dincha buy it?'


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 1, 2011)

Ah, Animal Man was really good too. Not my favorite of them all,but I will follow it.

I also want All-Star Western to be successful. Jonah Hex is a major badass.




Memos said:


> Wonder Woman really interested me because of the character designs. I hope it keeps that up with all of the other gods it should have.
> 
> What did you think of Aquaman and Swamp Thing?



I loved Aquaman. It was hilarious, and yet Aquaman was badass by not giving a fuck about his bad rep. I trust Johns' to make this one of my favorite books to follow.

I read Swamp Thing and found it to be meh. Mostly because I feel I need to read his previous run to understand it.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 2, 2011)

Aquaman was my favorite issue of the new 52.

Lol never thought I was going to say that.


----------



## Glued (Oct 2, 2011)

Platinum said:


> Aquaman was my favorite issue of the new 52.
> 
> Lol never thought I was going to say that.



Indeed, it is a good time to be an Aquaman fan.

[YOUTUBE]W-arOCdAMyA[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]vLeLbPezMfc[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]DhlBGOxpHek[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]UD_p-WSnnPw[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]MixXnzefsBA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Platinum (Oct 2, 2011)

Indeed .


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 2, 2011)

Aquaboss


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 2, 2011)

Nobeardorhook/10. Seriously though. Aquaman was incredible.


----------



## Glued (Oct 2, 2011)

I think Aquaman would look more awesome if he had a beard like the 90s. Plus his brave and bold counter part as well as his Young Justice counterpart also sport beards.

Seriously, with Cyborg, Hal, Barry, Bruce, and Clark, all clean shaven, someone should sport a beard.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 2, 2011)

I like Aquaman with a beard better. Also if the way he got the hook was anything like how he got in in the Bruce Timmverse, I like him with a hook better too.


----------



## Suigetsu (Oct 3, 2011)

Just wondering, is Linda Danvers still there?


----------



## Platinum (Oct 3, 2011)

The Hook is probably to 90's sadly.


----------



## Mael (Oct 3, 2011)

Forgive my laziness, but does anyone have dates of the next issues of Batgirl, Flash, and teh Batmanz?


----------



## Whimsy (Oct 3, 2011)

Man, I second this beard talk.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 3, 2011)

yes, yes the beard and the hook


----------



## Taleran (Oct 3, 2011)

So this doesn't make any sense at all does it?


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 3, 2011)

Taleran said:


> So this doesn't make any sense at all does it?



so no crisis of infinite earths and no infinite crisis?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2011)

Well, without FC I'm not sure how batman gets flung into the past. Unless Darkseid's attack is still in continuity and its just the multiverse stuff that isn't.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2011)

Mael said:


> Forgive my laziness, but does anyone have dates of the next issues of Batgirl, Flash, and teh Batmanz?



batgirl is 'week 1' so this wednesday. batman is 'week 3' and flash is 'week 4'


----------



## Mael (Oct 3, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> batgirl is 'week 1' so this wednesday. batman is 'week 3' and flash is 'week 4'



Thanks...also, what's with Dan Dildo's message?

I've been so wrapped up with RL that I haven't had the time to analyze.  That and I quit Facebook in 2008 and never looked back.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2011)

He's saying CoIE, Infinite Crisis, Identity Crisis, and I guess even Final Crisis didn't happen. 

Which I'd be 100% fine with except you need darkseid for morrison's batman stuff.

edit: well this changes it a bit


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 3, 2011)

So Barry never died? Yeeks at this point im just hoping wally exists at all. And guess Tim's dad is still alive, that's pretty cool for if/when he gets his own series.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 3, 2011)

Couldn't give a shit about the confused explaination of continuity issues. I just want good stories.


----------



## Glued (Oct 3, 2011)

Flashpoint was a horrible way to end the Bronze Age.

COIE was a magnificent way to end the Silver Age. 

Seriously, Flashpoint was a buzzkill. The whole DC universe resets, because Barry Allen wanted to bring back his mommy.

Thank you Barry Allen.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 3, 2011)

Poor JSA, nowhere to be found. 


And here I was stalking the thread again, when I saw...



Whip Whirlwind said:


> I retract my previous pitch for a batgirl inc with babs giving them missions and instead would like RR to be in that role.
> 
> Rarely active, but does detective and intel work for them.
> 
> ...





gabzilla said:


> ...I wanna draw that.



You still up for this?  'Cause I'd be totally down for writing a 30-page script for this  And adding Misfit too, that gal gets no  love


----------



## Mael (Oct 3, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> He's saying CoIE, Infinite Crisis, Identity Crisis, and I guess even Final Crisis didn't happen.
> 
> Which I'd be 100% fine with except you need darkseid for morrison's batman stuff.
> 
> edit: well this changes it a bit







Whip Whirlwind said:


> So Barry never died? Yeeks at this point im just hoping wally exists at all. And guess Tim's dad is still alive, that's pretty cool for if/when he gets his own series.



Wally will exist...I mean if Bart's on the TT and not Wally, it'd be ludicrous to never show Wally again.  It'd be like blanking Cass and Steph out from existence DESPITE what some people will think.  Granted, Wally's been around longer than those two ladies so he has that advantage, as the ID of a primary hero amongst the JL and DC in general.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2011)

If wally's around then he may never have been Flash


----------



## Mael (Oct 3, 2011)

Cromer said:


> You still up for this?  'Cause I'd be totally down for writing a 30-page script for this  And adding Misfit too, that gal gets no  love



Oh man, I wanna get in on it and flex the writing muscles.

Damian can be the honorary "third angel."


----------



## Mael (Oct 3, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> If wally's around then he may never have been Flash



And Jay Garrick?

There's no point in having a non-Flash Wally.  He'll show up.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 3, 2011)

Cromer said:


> You still up for this?  'Cause I'd be totally down for writing a 30-page script for this  And adding Misfit too, that gal gets no  love



Fuck yea Misfit! Dark Vengeance!

Seriously, this would be an awesome Team.

Steph provides the moxy, Cass provides the asskicking,Tim provides the intel, and Misfit? WILDCARD, BITCHES!


----------



## Mael (Oct 3, 2011)

Ah yes...Cass for the no-nonsense half-Asian bombshell trope. 

I liked Damian being forced to be the third on though.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2011)

Mael said:


> And Jay Garrick?



JSA's on another world again.




> There's no point in having a non-Flash Wally.  He'll show up.



That's more a good reason for him to NOT show up.


----------



## Mael (Oct 3, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> That's more a good reason for him to NOT show up.



Why?  Because of Barry Allen?

I don't see a good excuse not to have Wally West.  There's Keystone and there's Central.  There was Barry and Wally before, why not now?

So what if he has a family with Linda Park?


----------



## Parallax (Oct 3, 2011)

That kinda sucks, but shit happens I guess?


----------



## Parallax (Oct 3, 2011)

I can see it being a huge problem.

I mean SCW DID happen

but uh what about the Anti Monitor and Superboy Prime?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2011)

Mael said:


> Why?  Because of Barry Allen?
> 
> I don't see a good excuse not to have Wally West.  There's Keystone and there's Central.  There was Barry and Wally before, why not now?
> 
> So what if he has a family with Linda Park?



You said "theres no point of wally if he's not Flash"

Well, he's not Flash. So what's the point of him showing up? 

Except to have been kid flash on wolfman's teen titans. And when are you going to get over the fact that he's not old enough to have kids anymore? :S


----------



## Taleran (Oct 3, 2011)

Whole lot of little things that needlessly need clarifying now.

Batman Inc
Jason Todd
etc 
etc
etc


----------



## Cromer (Oct 3, 2011)

So I've read two different Nu52 reviews today which went with the 'ask a kid about these comics' route, so I've shamelessly decided to join in. I've got my baby sis in my room right now romping through some of 'em, and I'll post something resembling her response on my NF blog (finally gonna get some use outta that thing ) in an hour or so (she's a slow reader )


----------



## Slice (Oct 3, 2011)

If my little sister could speak / read english i would do the same since she doesn't know anything about comics except they exist.
But she hasn't learned the language in the last 22 years so i doubt she will do it now just to support this experiment .


----------



## Mael (Oct 3, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> You said "theres no point of wally if he's not Flash"
> 
> Well, he's not Flash. So what's the point of him showing up?
> 
> Except to have been kid flash on wolfman's teen titans. And when are you going to get over the fact that he's not old enough to have kids anymore? :S



Tell me where I said *THE* Flash, not *A* Flash.  Two Flashes existed at one point in time ya know.

I don't get this logic.  He has to be younger when Bart Allen is around?  Bart's the Kid Flash.  I know you may not like Wally but I don't see a legit reason as to not include him.  Did you not see the reference I made to both Keystone AND Central?

It's like trying to have me say if there's just Babs, there cannot be a Cass or Steph.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2011)

Well they're not going to have 2 batgirls at once are they. That's why cass is called Black Bat. 

But with Crisis, no Barry death, there is no reason for Wally to have ever become the Flash. So he's not a Flash anymore.

I don't hate Wally, I'm being realistic. 2 batmen wasn't going to last, and in the reboot it didn't, for good reason. There can't be 2 flashes either.


----------



## Mael (Oct 3, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Well they're not going to have 2 batgirls at once are they. That's why cass is called Black Bat.
> 
> But with Crisis, no Barry death, there is no reason for Wally to have ever become the Flash. So he's not a Flash anymore.
> 
> I don't hate Wally, I'm being realistic. 2 batmen wasn't going to last, and in the reboot it didn't, for good reason. There can't be 2 flashes either.



Then why isn't he Kid Flash?  Why is Bart Allen?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2011)

Because people like Bart, because it leaves open the possibility of doing something with an adult Wally at a later point if they want to (ie: reveal he was the first kid flash and hes still around with speedster powers, maybe decide to take on a new identity someday), whereas it's likely Bart and Tim and the rest will never really 'grow up'.

And, just throwing this out there, but Bart's origin as a descendant of the original Flash, and the vr thing, is more sensible, more unique, and more interesting than "Kid Flash repeated the same exact accident that Barry did"


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 3, 2011)

Heard about the "No Crisis" rule yesterday on a podcast...this throws a spanner in contunity works kinda...though with the five years timeline alot of things don't make since in retrospect. 

Kinda like the whole Green Lantern continuity now with the five year rule in effect, makes no sense



Mael said:


> Forgive my laziness, but does anyone have dates of the next issues of Batgirl, Flash, and teh Batmanz?





Petes12 said:


> batgirl is 'week 1' so this wednesday. batman is 'week 3' and flash is 'week 4'



Actually Batgirl got moved back a week according to the sites i'm visiting so it's next week now apparently.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2011)

haha wow, really? deadline missed in that soon? oh well I never cared about that so much.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 3, 2011)

So, I've done it. Exploitation, ON!


----------



## illmatic (Oct 3, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _Preview Of Action Comics #2_


----------



## Cromer (Oct 3, 2011)

At Luthor cowering scared.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 3, 2011)

, although that's no big of an spoiler there, we all know what happen


----------



## Penance (Oct 3, 2011)

illmatic said:


> *Spoiler*: _Preview Of Action Comics #2_



Glorious...


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 3, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Actually Batgirl got moved back a week according to the sites i'm visiting so it's next week now apparently.



It was. .


----------



## Blinky (Oct 3, 2011)

I've heard a good bit of praise for the Batgirl reboot but I just don't see what it is people love about it.


----------



## Mael (Oct 3, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> It was. .



Barbara Gordon Batgirl: Iron Bulwark of Bravery


----------



## Gallant (Oct 3, 2011)

Wow Batgirl has had this unintentionally hilarious vibe about it for two issues now.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 3, 2011)

Blinky said:


> I've heard a good bit of praise for the Batgirl reboot but I just don't see what it is people love about it.



Gail Simone can do no wrong, apparently.

My issues with the Batgirl reboot aside, the comic was boring, the dialogue was horrible and Barbara was more incompetent than Steph on a bad day. And if the preview of issue 2 is to be believed, it doesn't get better.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 3, 2011)

While I don't mind Simone on Batgirl, I do hope that Barbara will actually start to become competent soon. she's not displaying the kind of intelligence she usually does.

I do wish Simone had been put on Suicide Squad instead of Firestorm though


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2011)

I don't think its amazing but I don't see what's wrong with that preview.

Apparently I'm the only one who doesn't mind it when the superheroes aren't totally perfect and totally on top of every situation?


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 4, 2011)

Action Comics looks amazing.

Is JL coming out this week?


----------



## Mael (Oct 4, 2011)

Gabz, you might need to look into other female protagonists until damage control is in effect.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm enjoying WW a lot 

Supergirl has potential 



Petes12 said:


> I don't think its amazing but I don't see what's wrong with that preview.
> 
> Apparently I'm the only one who doesn't mind it when the superheroes aren't totally perfect and totally on top of every situation?



I don't mind characters that aren't perfect.

I do mind a Barbara that wasn't this incompetent _in Year One_ acting like a naive moron. _Offering the villain who just killed two people a hand when you are standing on weak legs._ You can't sell me that this girl was Batman's star pupil when she makes this kind of mistakes. Freezing at a bad guy pointing a gun because of PTDS? Fair enough. But this? There's good and there's stupid.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 4, 2011)

What's the other option, hope he's lying and maybe let him fall to his death?

edit: granted that would be the totally sensible thing to do. But it also breaks the batman rule.


----------



## Mael (Oct 4, 2011)

Good answer.  I'm aiming with Supergirl since I actually liked her comic more than Diana's atm.

DC-speaking that is.  My fave females typically come elsewhere.



Petes12 said:


> What's the other option, hope he's lying and maybe let him fall to his death?
> 
> edit: granted that would be the totally sensible thing to do. But it also breaks the batman rule.



Breaks the Batman rule, but Batgirl is doing zero favors for herself.

Batman will at least not dispose of the guy but know how to completely undo the fucker.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 4, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Action Comics looks amazing.
> 
> Is JL coming out this week?



Two more weeks for Justice League.


----------



## Bender (Oct 4, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> While I don't mind Simone on Batgirl, I do hope that Barbara will actually start to become competent soon. she's not displaying the kind of intelligence she usually does.



It's most likely that Gail Simone is trying to channel the same aura that Stephanie Brown as Batgirl did into Barbara. Not that I don't like the idea of it but I want Babs to have the same intelligence she did as Oracle.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 4, 2011)

If she's doing that, she's failing spectacularly



Petes12 said:


> What's the other option, hope he's lying and maybe let him fall to his death?
> 
> edit: granted that would be the totally sensible thing to do. But it also breaks the batman rule.



...use a Bat line to secure your position?


----------



## Mael (Oct 4, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> ...use a Bat line to secure your position?



Seems someone from DC hasn't been paying attention to the Silver/Golden age of a plot structure with the Batfamily.

Honestly, I thought Babs was supposed to be the MOST intelligent of the three women where Cass was stolid/strong and Steph was plucky, not the most naive.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 4, 2011)

Mael said:


> Seems someone from DC hasn't been paying attention to the Silver/Golden age of a plot structure with the Batfamily.
> 
> Honestly, I thought Babs was supposed to be the MOST intelligent of the three women where Cass was stolid/strong and Steph was plucky, not the most naive.



Really it looks like they're changing babs to fit the batgirl role again. Which is stupid, because iom that's just going to piss both Babs and Steph fans off, since Steph was already the perfect protagonist for the tone that this new Batgirl has.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 4, 2011)

Was it in this thread where it was said Batgirl is like those mothers who dress up like their daughters?

Because that is still the perfect definition for the book.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 4, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Was it in this thread where it was said Batgirl is like those mothers who dress up like their daughters?
> 
> Because that is still the perfect definition for the book.



Yes, it was


----------



## Bender (Oct 4, 2011)

@Gabzilla

Gail no! 




> Honestly, I thought Babs was supposed to be the MOST intelligent of the three women where Cass was stolid/strong and Steph was plucky, not the most naive.



Cass is more the silent speak through fight type. 

Bubbly and incompetent don't mix with Babs IMO. I mean we're doing this whole reboot to get young readers more in touch with Dccomics no? Then, at least get the characterization right. Babs even in her Dcanimated incarnation is intelligent. Snarkish? Yes. Bubbly-like? No. Fix it, Dc.  *Fix it*.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 4, 2011)

I know people say Steph is similar to Babs, but I don't see it. Steph is more of a bubbly snarker, while Babs has always been more serious.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 4, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I don't think its amazing but I don't see what's wrong with that preview.
> 
> Apparently I'm the only one who doesn't mind it when the superheroes aren't totally perfect and totally on top of every situation?



Oh it's nothing to do with her competence for me anyway. Hell my favourite hero is Booster Gold and he fucks up quite a lot.  

I just didn't like the dialogue at all and the final scene with the cop pointing the gun at Barbara instead of the killer left me seriously bewildered.

But hey different strokes.


----------



## Mael (Oct 4, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I know people say Steph is similar to Babs, but I don't see it. Steph is more of a bubbly snarker, while Babs has always been more serious.



Babs was always more srs bzns, from comic to animated form.  She had a light-heartedness about her but Steph was the one who'd sound literally more like Bubbles from the PPG, from Spoiler on and then of course be serious when she needed to.  It complemented Cass's stolid and tough fighter mode.

This new Babs is sort of...well just tragic.  Even the whole PTSD thing screams a little weak in the knees and if it continues for another ten issues well...shit.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 4, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I know people say Steph is similar to Babs, but I don't see it. Steph is more of a bubbly snarker, while Babs has always been more serious.



Well I assume they mean Steph is similar to how barbara originally was as batgirl, but I've never read any old comics with her as batgirl so that's just an assumption. And we're used to deadly serious barbara as oracle.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 4, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Was it in this thread where it was said Batgirl is like those mothers who dress up like their daughters?
> 
> Because that is still the perfect definition for the book.



Yea that was me 

And because that tone doesn't seem to be going away, I just can't get behind this book. It was my original fear when this was announced, but I tried to reassure myself by thinking just because it's the batgirl name doesn't mean they're going to suddenly make her act all young and bubbly.





Petes12 said:


> Well I assume they mean Steph is similar to how barbara originally was as batgirl, but I've never read any old comics with her as batgirl so that's just an assumption. And we're used to deadly serious barbara as oracle.



Steph is slightly similar to Babs as batgirl, but Steph still comes across as less serious and more fun. They both have snark, but Steph does it with a smile and Babs did it with a smirk.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 4, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Well I assume they mean Steph is similar to how barbara originally was as batgirl, but I've never read any old comics with her as batgirl so that's just an assumption. And we're used to deadly serious barbara as oracle.



Yeah... Babs was not like Steph in the old comics. At all. The closest thing you have is BtaS and Year One and even those show a Babs that is pretty different to Steph. More serious, more of an adrenaline junkie and with a bigger temper.


----------



## Mael (Oct 4, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Yeah... Babs was not like Steph in the old comics. At all. The closest thing you have is BtaS and Year One and even those show a Babs that is pretty different to Steph. More serious, more of an adrenaline junkie and with a bigger temper.



I do recall Babs actually trying to moonlight and plead Bruce to let her in on it, the whole concern of course being Commish Gordon's daughter. 

I did like her character in BatS though.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 4, 2011)

I've been so disappointed with the fridging (not literal) of Cass and Steph that I'm 10 pages into that script I was telling you guys about. Dunno If it's any good, but goddamn it has Cass, Steph, Charlie, Tim in the driver's seat, and a Damian cameo.


Problem is an artist. Gabz?


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 4, 2011)

Tell me more


----------



## Mael (Oct 4, 2011)

Cromer out with the script.

I demand a proofread.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 4, 2011)

Let me get done with it at least, Mael!


And I'm just writing a single adventure, out to investigate some wonky goings on at S.T.A.R. Labs, and Tim noting discrepancies in the behaviour of the guys in charge. So he convinces Cass to lend a hand, and Steph and Charlie sorta just...butt in. I know the premise is abit meh, but it was never about the plot, but the characters eh?  I'm almost tempted to stretch this out, but I'm too lazy to write more than 32 pages at a go. ( Besides, I have a deadline to submit my poems on Friday, and I've only done two.  )


----------



## Mael (Oct 4, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Let me get done with it at least, Mael!
> 
> And I'm just writing a single adventure, out to investigate some wonky goings on at S.T.A.R. Labs, and Tim noting discrepancies in the behaviour of the guys in charge. So he convinces Cass to lend a hand, and Steph and Charlie sorta just...butt in. I know the premise is abit meh, but it was never about the plot, but the characters eh?  I'm almost tempted to stretch this out, but I'm too lazy to write more than 32 pages at a go. ( Besides, I have a deadline to submit my poems on Friday, and I've only done two.  )



We'll you've got a decent premise I'll give you that.  I'd love to see what you've got in terms of dialogue.  I tend to be a heavy-hander in that category.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 4, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I've been so disappointed with the fridging (not literal) of Cass and Steph that I'm 10 pages into that script I was telling you guys about. Dunno If it's any good, but goddamn it has Cass, Steph, Charlie, Tim in the driver's seat, and a Damian cameo.
> 
> 
> Problem is an artist. Gabz?


ha, I messed around with drawing them, coming up with 'DCnU' costumes. I really dislike the Black Bat one they had in Inc and Red Robin so it needed to be modified. 

I've been on kind of a DC drawing kick lately.

edit: not offering, I'm no where near as good as gabz anyway, just saying its been on my mind too.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 4, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> ha, I messed around with drawing them, coming up with 'DCnU' costumes. I really dislike the Black Bat one they had in Inc and Red Robin so it needed to be modified.
> 
> I've been on kind of a DC drawing kick lately.
> 
> edit: not offering, I'm no where near as good as gabz anyway, just saying its been on my mind too.


DCnU? You *needed* to give Cass all of them ridges and shit?


And I'm stuck on a believability issue anyway; have to ask somebody for her opinion, and that's got to be tomorrow, since it's well past midnight here.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 4, 2011)

The costume she had in Inc sucked. 

also I happen to like costumes that don't look super spandexy, what's wrong with that <.<


----------



## Parallax (Oct 4, 2011)

cause you read superhero comics that's why


----------



## Parallax (Oct 4, 2011)

that's like going oh man I sure like burgers but them sesame seed buns gotta go


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 4, 2011)

I prefer buns without the sesame seeds 
I'll eat a sesame seed bun but it's not as good. So, pretty apt analogy.

It's a pretty stupid trope that isn't at all needed for the stories being told. I like this decade's movie style costuming. 

And Morrison's New X-men had the best X-men costumes by far 


edit: oh yeah and I didn't use ribbing anyway. Though I'm not against it. One Batgirl with that is enough.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 4, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I prefer buns without the sesame seeds



You monster. 

It's fun to hunt for stray ones.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 4, 2011)

Charcan said:


> You monster.
> 
> It's fun to hunt for stray ones.



I know, right? 

Petes12 missing out


----------



## Mael (Oct 4, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I know, right?
> 
> Petes12 missing out



Bitches dun know about mah seeds.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 4, 2011)

Burger bun without seeds?


----------



## Bender (Oct 4, 2011)

Parallax said:


> that's like going oh man I sure like burgers but them sesame seed buns gotta go



There's only two things good on a burger. Ketchup and lettuce.  Each time I see cheese on it I want to go back through the drive thru and throw the burger at the cunts (Wendy's) faces for fucking up my order.


----------



## Penance (Oct 5, 2011)

Black Titan said:


> There's only two things good on a burger. Ketchup and lettuce.  Each time I see cheese on it I want to go back through the drive thru and throw the burger at the cunts (Wendy's) faces for fucking up my order.



Just had a turkey cheese burger and fried egg sandwich (lettuce, tomatoes, those spicy onions)...

The only thing I really can't stand on a burger is a pickle.  I fucking HATE pickles...


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 5, 2011)

high five i hate pickles too


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 5, 2011)

PICKLES ARE THE DEVIL. Seriously, I am pretty much food fearless and will try anything once, but if there is a pickle on my plate of fries, I will not eat any of the fries touching said pickle.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 5, 2011)

yeah fuck pickles

tomatoes too while we're at it


----------



## typhoon72 (Oct 5, 2011)

Fuck burgers in general. The fuck I wanna have bread on the top and bottom of my burger for? If I want bread/bun ill eat it on the side.

*runs out of the thread*


----------



## Bender (Oct 5, 2011)

Penance said:


> Just had a turkey cheese burger and fried egg sandwich (lettuce, tomatoes, those spicy onions)...
> 
> The only thing I really can't stand on a burger is a pickle.  I fucking HATE pickles...



It's weird the only time I tolerate cheese is when it's on my subway sandwhich.  I guess it's because they toast my shit.


----------



## Sephiroth (Oct 5, 2011)

Aquaman: Best I read this week, great art and funny dialogue, and a great little recap on his history.

Nightwing: So why is Daken trying to kill Dick? Good art and decent comic overall though.

Savage Hawkman:Good art, Hawkman has badass armor and weapon, the story is fairly interesting, the relationship with Hawkman is weird though. 

Teen Titans: Average art, pretty good Robin dialogue and Kid Flash's scene was funny.


----------



## Glued (Oct 5, 2011)

Parallax said:


> yeah fuck pickles
> 
> tomatoes too while we're at it



Tomatoes are frikken awesome, I always get the cheese removed and have it replaced with a tomato.

Hell I will pay an extra 50cents for a tomato on my sandwich in McDonalds.


----------



## Mael (Oct 5, 2011)

I'm still struggling to get myself to like Teen Titans.  The aesthetic save for Tim Drake seems cluttered and straight out of the 1990s Marvel.  The writing isn't bad, per se, but the fact that #1 was written by Lobdell makes me completely apprehensive as displayed with the whole Wonder Girl robbing thing.  I dunno...it's not like I don't like it, but I have a hard time wholly liking it save for Robin.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 5, 2011)

any comics coming out this week that I should check out?


and why so much pickles hate


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 5, 2011)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> any comics coming out this week that I should check out?
> 
> 
> and why so much pickles hate



Action Comics and Animal Man...maybe the Penguin mini series as well if it's good.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 5, 2011)

^ add to that swamp thing


----------



## Blinky (Oct 5, 2011)

> Fuck burgers in general.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 5, 2011)

Man Animal Man #2 was better than issue one.

Action was pretty good too.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 5, 2011)

I just read the red lanterns #2 and it is giving new depth to atrocitus some good      
depth, also thanks for the recommendation guys, I'll go check then out when I get my check


----------



## Cromer (Oct 5, 2011)

Red Lanterns good?  What ever will they come up with next?


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 5, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Red Lanterns good?  What ever will they come up with next?



well disclaimer incoming, I'm a fan of green lantern


----------



## Blinky (Oct 5, 2011)

No way am I reading Red Lanterns after that first issue


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 5, 2011)

Blinky said:


> No way am I reading Red Lanterns after that first issue



you know I didn't need to remember the overly dramatic first issue


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 5, 2011)

When i was buying all of my comics I realized week 1 is a pretty weak week. I bought most of the stuff from week one last month (ever Hawk and Dove) however today I only got Action Comics, Animal Man, and OMAC.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 5, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> When i was buying all of my comics I realized week 1 is a pretty weak week. I bought most of the stuff from week one last month (ever Hawk and Dove) however today I only got Action Comics, Animal Man, and OMAC.



well is true, I guess DC is following the best for last rule?


----------



## Glued (Oct 5, 2011)

Static: I should leave and let heroes like Hawkman and Captain Atom take care of things.


So DC New York does have more superheroes. Still not as good as the Marvel New York, which has an ample supply.

Who knows, Static might be teaming up with Hawkman sooner or later.

Oh yeah, Static's sister has a doppleganger. Both the real sister and the doppleganger live in the same house. Both think that their the real Sharon.

Could someone with background knowledge of Static explain where the doppleganger came from.


----------



## MB99 (Oct 5, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Could someone with background knowledge of Static explain where the doppleganger came from.



We don't know what's going on with Static's sister yet, it's a mystery Rozum and McDaniel are building up to be explained in future issues.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 5, 2011)

After reading Animal Man #2 Swamp Thing #1 makes 100 times more sense.

Also if you haven't gotten OMAC, get it. It's awesome.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 5, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> When i was buying all of my comics I realized week 1 is a pretty weak week. I bought most of the stuff from week one last month (ever Hawk and Dove) however today I only got Action Comics, Animal Man, and OMAC.



Gotta agree this week is the weakest of the 4. However, I loved the few books I got (Action Comics, Animal Man, JLI).

Thinking of reading OMAC #2. OMAC #1 was simple fun of a guy beating other guys up (what Hawkman should be)


----------



## Memos (Oct 5, 2011)

Animal Man and Swamp Thing. Holy shit, yes.

Not only are the two working with some fantastic designs and dark imagery, but they are connecting to each other with certain aspects and I love that. I read that there will be a crossover between the two and I can't wait. My favourite two books of the 52 so far.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 5, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Gotta agree this week is the weakest of the 4. However, I loved the few books I got (Action Comics, Animal Man, JLI).
> 
> Thinking of reading OMAC #2. OMAC #1 was simple fun of a guy beating other guys up (what Hawkman should be)



Certainly get OMAC 2. I can guarantee you'll love it.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 5, 2011)

Memos said:


> Animal Man and Swamp Thing. Holy shit, yes.
> 
> Not only are the two working with some fantastic designs and dark imagery, but they are connecting to each other with certain aspects and I love that. I read that there will be a crossover between the two and I can't wait. My favourite two books of the 52 so far.



I may actually get Swamp Thing #2 just because Animal Man #2 made things so clear as to what went on in Swamp Thing #1.


----------



## Penance (Oct 5, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I may actually get Swamp Thing #2 just because Animal Man #2 made things so clear as to what went on in Swamp Thing #1.



Yeah, it seems like Animal Man+Swamp Thing=Pretty damn great


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 5, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Certainly get OMAC 2. I can guarantee you'll love it.



Yep, I loved it.

Reminds me of Hulk without all the angst and all the PUNCHING.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 5, 2011)

OMAC was really good actually.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 5, 2011)

You know I think i'm going to put Swamp Thing back on my pull list, because I really like issue 2.

Also Action Comics and Animal Man were good to this week...as was Batwing

I still continue to not be impressed with JLI or Detective Comics.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 5, 2011)

I know I said I didn't like Batwing last month, but suddenly I'm on the bandwagon.



Read Batwing, because David is awesome.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 5, 2011)

And yeah, Static, bringing the awesomeness. It's just a pity Rozum's walking.


----------



## Bender (Oct 5, 2011)

Where are the previews for Justice League #2? 

I'm crossing my fingers they don't fuck up Supes vs Bats


----------



## Penance (Oct 5, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I know I said I didn't like Batwing last month, but suddenly I'm on the bandwagon.
> 
> 
> 
> Read Batwing, because David is awesome.





Cromer said:


> And yeah, Static, bringing the awesomeness. It's just a pity Rozum's walking.




That he is... 

I was on the fence, before issue 2.  

Action Comics was BOSS

I've decided that I can't get into O.M.A.C., right now-it's not bad, or anything, I'm just not in the mood for DC's The Incredible Hulk at the moment...

I like Static Shock, but I'm on the fence about the art, sometimes...

Detective Comics and Green Arrow:  

*goes to read Men of War and Stormwatch*


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 5, 2011)

Action, Animal Man, and Swamp Thing were all incredibly awesome.

I can't even place one above the other. I can't wait for the inevitable red/green crossover.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 5, 2011)

Action Comics and Batwing were pretty great.

All I have read so far.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 5, 2011)

Batwing and Stormwatch really kicked it up a notch as well.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 5, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Batwing and Stormwatch really kicked it up a notch as well.



I like how the immediate Stormwatch response to "The Justice League is going to notice the moon coming to life soon" is "Pick a villain at random and pin it on him"

Who was the poor sad villain that Booster and the rest of the league were beating the shit out of by the way?


----------



## Sephiroth (Oct 5, 2011)

Now that all the 52 have been released, which will you be following and which will you be dropping?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 5, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I like how the immediate Stormwatch response to "The Justice League is going to notice the moon coming to life soon" is "Pick a villain at random and pin it on him"
> 
> Who was the poor sad villain that Booster and the rest of the league were beating the shit out of by the way?



I like the idea of Stormwatch seeing the justice league as a bunch of rubes.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 5, 2011)

Thanks to Animal Man I got Swamp Thing. Huuuuuge improvement.


----------



## Gallant (Oct 5, 2011)

Action Comics and Batwing were the best of this week for me. Static Shock is pretty high up there too.

JLI and Green Arrow were solid stuff. Nothing earth shattering but they entertained me so they served their purpose. 

Finally got to read Detective Comics 1 and picked up 2 as well today. I'd say it was alright. Of the four Batman titles it isn't my favorite but its better than TDK by a pretty good margin.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 5, 2011)

JLI still horrible.

Stormwatch improved, def more interesting second issue. Action, Swamp Thing, and Animal Man were all good of course.


----------



## Mael (Oct 5, 2011)

Didn't bother with JLI.

Is Mr. Terrific still around?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 5, 2011)

OMACTIVATE

trying to decide if this is awful or awesome.


----------



## Penance (Oct 5, 2011)

Stormwatch was pretty good, and Men of War #2 super BOSS...


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 5, 2011)

Red Lantern is  pretty good, The A-Man is proving to be very Deep


----------



## Penance (Oct 6, 2011)

Also, the Tenk farm?


----------



## Gallant (Oct 6, 2011)

Mael said:


> Didn't bother with JLI.
> 
> Is Mr. Terrific still around?



Poor Booster Gold. 

Should be coming out next week. I'm hoping it improves on the good things and minimizes the bad but I won't hold my breath on that. I might just try the Huntress mini-series that day and hold off on Mr. Terrific until I get paid again.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 6, 2011)

did they really have 2 delays already? not that I care, its just funny since they made such a big deal out of not missing deadlines.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 6, 2011)

Mael said:


> Didn't bother with JLI.
> 
> Is Mr. Terrific still around?



I'm pretty sure Mr. Terrific is a week 2 title


----------



## Platinum (Oct 6, 2011)

Red Lanterns continues to be surprisingly decent.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 6, 2011)

Issue one of the penguin miniseries was solid as well.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 6, 2011)

Animal Man is so deliciously fucked up .


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 6, 2011)

Swooning so hard at the awesomeness that is Animal Man.

And at Marcus To's art in Huntress pek


----------



## Taleran (Oct 6, 2011)

I found myself not enjoying Swamp Thing #2, I think it just comes to the way it is written and the fact that is has a lot of words.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> JLI still horrible.
> 
> Stormwatch improved, def more interesting second issue. Action, Swamp Thing, and Animal Man were all good of course.



this made it worthy


----------



## Cromer (Oct 6, 2011)

I'm confused: what in Animal Man 2 makes Swamp Thing 1 more comprehensible? I mean, aside from the fact that we *know* Animal Man and Swamp Thing are crossing over, there was no mention of the Green or anything like that in Animal Man. Or am I missing something?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 6, 2011)

I have no idea what hes talking  about either


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 6, 2011)

Batwing was cool too


----------



## Glued (Oct 6, 2011)

Dove is still dating Deadman, poor guy, she doesn't have time for him.
Swan, I don't know what to say. She wraps her legs around a man's hips as Condor kills the guy and she some how takes away the Osprey's powers. Hawk and dove kicking Zombie ass. 

OMAC, just wow, Amazing Man = Absorbing Man. OMAC is like a techno based Hulk with a fin head and Brother Eye constantly telling him what to do.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 6, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Batwing was cool too



Well it was an improvement from the first issue, how massacre is still alive is a mystery to me.

Detective comics is going  good as well. 

What I really want is the next Justice League.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 6, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I'm confused: what in Animal Man 2 makes Swamp Thing 1 more comprehensible? I mean, aside from the fact that we *know* Animal Man and Swamp Thing are crossing over, there was no mention of the Green or anything like that in Animal Man. Or am I missing something?





Petes12 said:


> I have no idea what hes talking  about either



Mostly because it was showing us what was going on instead of Superman trying to tell us what was going on. Also because the undead mammoth (I think it was a mammoth, I don't feel like going back and looking) no longer has me confused and enraged.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 6, 2011)

I just bought omac today and I gotta say it was


----------



## Glued (Oct 6, 2011)

OMAC #1 was weirder.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 6, 2011)

OMAC #2 was pretty much just one big giant fight scene with some explanation as to what was going on was thrown in. And it was incredible.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 6, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Mostly because it was showing us what was going on instead of Superman trying to tell us what was going on. Also because the undead mammoth (I think it was a mammoth, I don't feel like going back and looking) no longer has me confused and enraged.



You get mad when a horror starts off with a mystery?

Animal Man really doesn't explain it at all...


----------



## Glued (Oct 6, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> OMAC #2 was pretty much just one big giant fight scene with some explanation as to what was going on was thrown in. And it was incredible.



It was glorious.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> You get mad when a horror starts off with a mystery?
> 
> Animal Man really doesn't explain it at all...



I get mad when Superman just tells us the mystery instead of showing the mystery like in Animal Man. Also Animal Man helped to show that there was an actual mystery. Unlike in Swamp Thing #1 where it was just Superman saying there was weird stuff going on then bam, undead mammoth.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 6, 2011)

you mean the weird stuff we saw on the first page? superman's exposition wasnt about 'weird stuff' going on.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 6, 2011)

Yes it was. Superman was talking about how the cows were dying and the birds were droping and whatnot. Then Swamp Thing guy (whatever his name is) was giving his scientific explanation about it.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 6, 2011)

you mean... the thing that we saw on the very first page of the comic.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 6, 2011)

Oh, right. What was my complaint about Swamp Thing #1 again?


----------



## Penance (Oct 6, 2011)

^Too many things, not enough swamp?


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 7, 2011)




----------



## Blinky (Oct 7, 2011)

I would read that.


----------



## Penance (Oct 7, 2011)

He doesn't talk to fish, though...


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 7, 2011)

I'm a fucking turtle.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 7, 2011)

The full numbers aren't in yet, but as expected, DC is the #1 publisher. Here's the New 52 from best-selling to worst. 

1. Batman
2. Action Comics
3. Green Lantern
4. Flash
5. Superman
6. Detective Comics
7. Batman: The Dark Knight
8. Batman and Robin
9. Green Lantern: New Guardians
10. Batgirl
11. Wonder Woman
12. Green Lantern Corps
13. Teen Titans
14. Aquaman
15. Batwoman
16. Red Lanterns
17. Justice League Dark
18. Nightwing
19. Justice League International
20. Green Arrow
21. Swamp Thing
22. Supergirl
23. Catwoman
24. Red Hood and the Outlaws
25. Birds of Prey
26. Savage Hawkman
27. Superboy
28. Justice League (the first issue came out in August, so Justice League's place on the chart is due solely to re-orders and reprint copies. Amazing)
29. Stormwatch
30. Fury of Firestorm: The Nuclear Men
31. Legion of Super-Heroes
32. Suicide Squad
33. Deathstroke
34. Legion Lost
35. Animal Man
36. Batwing
37. DC Universe Presents
38. Blue Beetle
39. Captain Atom
40. All-Star Western
41. Hawk and Dove
42. Resurrection Man
43. Demon Knights
44. Frankenstein: Agent of SHADE
45. Mr. Terrific
46. Grifter
47. Voodoo
48. Blackhawks
49. I, Vampire
50. Static Shock
51. Men of War
52. OMAC

Opinions?


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 7, 2011)

Ew Batgirl. Batwoman and WW deserve to be higher than that tripe. Same with Animal Man and Swamp Thing.

That said, it looks nice, but let's see if they are that high in the ranking in three months.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 7, 2011)

JLI selling more than JL,  Demon Knights, and Red Hood.

There is so much wrong in the world.


----------



## Glued (Oct 7, 2011)




----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 7, 2011)

Catwoman selling more than All-Star Western...Why must you suck so much world? why?


----------



## Glued (Oct 7, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> The full numbers aren't in yet, but as expected, DC is the #1 publisher. Here's the New 52 from best-selling to worst.
> 
> 1. Batman
> 2. Action Comics
> ...



Static and OMAC are at the bottom.

Come on, OMAC is the weird, why won't people buy OMAC.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 7, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0kvdi3GGA0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 7, 2011)

They all sold out, so being at the bottom doesn't mean they didn't sell well.

Still, having stuff like Detective Comics, Batman: The Dark Knight at the top half while All-Star Western, Demon Knights, and Frankenstein are at the bottom is awful.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 7, 2011)

KizaruTachio said:


> JLI selling more than JL,  Demon Knights, and Red Hood.
> 
> There is so much wrong in the world.



That's only the second print or whatever of JL, the first print was probably the best selling comic of the 52 (it was one of 3 over 200,000), but it wasn't in september technically.


----------



## Glued (Oct 7, 2011)

KizaruTachio said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0kvdi3GGA0[/YOUTUBE]



*Spoiler*: __


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 7, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> That's only the second print or whatever of JL, the first print was probably the best selling comic of the 52 (it was one of 3 over 200,000), but it wasn't in september technically.



Ahh I see.

Out of the new 52 JL probably my favorite, I  wasn't sure about picking up anything too fringe so I stayed away from stuff like OMAC and Swampthing. 

I might pick them up we'll have to see.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 7, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> The full numbers aren't in yet, but as expected, DC is the #1 publisher. Here's the New 52 from best-selling to worst.
> 
> 1. Batman
> 2. Action Comics
> ...



Most the books i liked did quite well, Red hood Being #24 is Excellent imo


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 7, 2011)

demon knights deserves to do better


----------



## Cromer (Oct 7, 2011)

Goddamnit, why is Static so low? And Animal Man at 35, comic readers WTF? BUY THIS SHIT AND KEEP IT ALIVE!!!


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 7, 2011)

static just isn't very good... good character not really a good comic.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 7, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Goddamnit, why is Static so low? And Animal Man at 35, comic readers WTF? BUY THIS SHIT AND KEEP IT ALIVE!!!





SageMaster said:


> They all sold out, so being at the bottom doesn't mean they didn't sell well.
> 
> Still, having stuff like Detective Comics, Batman: The Dark Knight at the top half while All-Star Western, Demon Knights, and Frankenstein are at the bottom is awful.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 7, 2011)

Suicide Squad beating some great comics.

This is wrong.


----------



## Gallant (Oct 7, 2011)

I'm came in pessimistic so while I was hoping for Static to be in the middle I had a feeling it would be near the bottom. So sad. I bought both issues so at least I did my part.

Almost everything bat related is at or near the top 10. Totally not surprised by that even though some of those were lackluster. Batgirl at 10 makes me gag the most though. 

Hawkman and Batwing did better than I was expecting.


----------



## Glued (Oct 7, 2011)

WE MUST SAVE OMAC!!!

EYE AM NOT AMUSED!


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 7, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> The full numbers aren't in yet, but as expected, DC is the #1 publisher. Here's the New 52 from best-selling to worst.
> 
> 1. Batman
> 2. Action Comics
> ...


omac doing the worst  
frankenstein agent of shade 43 
deathstroke doing worse than suicide squad ? 
batwing, animal man and blue beetle not top twenty 
aquaman not in the top ten 
red lantern number 16 YES


----------



## Parallax (Oct 7, 2011)

If anything I'm shocked that Action Comics 1 wasn't at the top


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 7, 2011)

Parallax said:


> If anything I'm shocked that Action Comics 1 wasn't at the top



...Batman.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 7, 2011)

Yeah I guess but usually any superhero comic written by Morrison is usually at no.1


----------



## Glued (Oct 7, 2011)

It takes more than Grant Morrison to raise someone above Batman.

Besides, remember how Superman was going to renounce his American citizenship in Action Comics 900, yeah, bad idea.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 7, 2011)

Snyder raises the pedigree of a book a lot in his own right. He's joined the short 'DC writers that can sell books with their names' list with Morrison and Johns


----------



## Cromer (Oct 7, 2011)

Besides, alot of people didn't like the idea of activist Superman, y'know?


And Blackfeather, Batwing doesn't deserve to be anything but middle of the bunch.


----------



## Bender (Oct 7, 2011)

congrats DC


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 7, 2011)

Cromer said:


> And Blackfeather, Batwing doesn't deserve to be anything but middle of the bunch.


is not the most engaging thing out there but it is more than most the the comics


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 7, 2011)

Attention: Everyone who hasn't bought OMAC, buy it now. 


Seriously, that's the one underdog series I want for it to not get cancelled and it's at the bottom. Hopefully word of its awesomeness spreads.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 7, 2011)

if it's at the very bottom it probably doesn't stand a chance. 

It is pretty awesome though.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 8, 2011)

To be honest I dont have much interest in OMAC


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 8, 2011)

I will buy OMAC online.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 8, 2011)

Aquaman only number 14 ?

13 spots too low.

JL Dark at 17 is pretty good. I'm glad that's doing well.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 8, 2011)

I love the concept and the team for JL Dark but I don't like the art at all. There are times where it looks way too digital which is a bit off a turn off. I'll stick with it though.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 8, 2011)

Steph in Batman Inc 



No Spoiler pics yet.


----------



## Penance (Oct 8, 2011)

Spoiler pics or Spoiler pics?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 8, 2011)

So, best #2 title so far?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 8, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> So, best #2 title so far?



Animal Man in my opinion. Action Comics and Swamp Thing were good, as was Huntress and Penguin...Stormwatch was amusing...but Animal Man continues to be the best of the lot.


----------



## Memos (Oct 8, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> So, best #2 title so far?



It's close between Animal Man and Swamp Thing, but Animal Man takes it with the really fucked up things happening. It's nice to see that kind of stuff happen and it not devolve into shocking for shocking sake.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 8, 2011)

Penance said:


> Spoiler pics or Spoiler pics?



Icwydt



Comic Book Guy said:


> So, best #2 title so far?



Animal Man


----------



## Penance (Oct 8, 2011)

Animal Man and Swamp Thing seem to be the the champs this week...Action Comics and Batwing as 1st runners up, next runners up are Men of War and Stormwatch

Everything else kind of varied from meh to bleh...


----------



## Parallax (Oct 8, 2011)

probably Animal Man #2

though I did enjoy Swamp Thing and Action Comics


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 8, 2011)

I retract  JL being the best, that goes to Animal Man, hands down. 

Though it's kind of like comparing a good action film and a GREAT horror film, different criteria.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 8, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> "Aquaman is suddenly cool"
> 
> 
> [Youtube]yl3ZZaXLEx0[/Youtube]



Aquaman really must be behind the Thing for your favorite comic book characters.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 8, 2011)

Yeah Animal Man 2 was the best this week.


----------



## Glued (Oct 8, 2011)

KizaruTachio said:


> Aquaman really must be behind the Thing for your favorite comic book characters.



Yep, Aquaman is my second favorite. But Ben Grimm has been my favorite hero since I was seven years old.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 9, 2011)

So, Hawk and Dove.

I didn't enjoy this as much as the first issue


----------



## Glued (Oct 9, 2011)

It really isn't a very good introductory issue for Hawk and dove.
1st issue they're fighting zombies
2nd issue Swan, Condor and Osprey come out of nowhere.

Who is Swan, who is Condor and who is Osprey?


----------



## Mael (Oct 9, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Steph in Batman Inc
> 
> 
> 
> No Spoiler pics yet.



See?  I knew there was no sense in completely retconning already popular characters.  Patience with the Spoiler spoiler pics too. 

Now just for Wally West.


----------



## Glued (Oct 9, 2011)

Remember how Power Girl reappeared in Mister Terrific as nothing more than a white girlfriend with no super powers...I'm just saying.

Just because its Steph, doesn't mean its Spoiler.


----------



## Penance (Oct 9, 2011)

"It's because I'm a white girl, isn't it? "


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 9, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Remember how Power Girl reappeared in Mister Terrific as nothing more than a white girlfriend with no super powers...I'm just saying.
> 
> Just because its Steph, doesn't mean its Spoiler.



The solicit confirms she appears as Spoiler.

Though looking at the layout pages, she's dressed as a schoolgirl most of the time.



Not that I'm complaining.


----------



## Slice (Oct 9, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Remember how Power Girl reappeared in Mister Terrific as nothing more than a white girlfriend with no super powers...I'm just saying.



Dont remind me. i am still in denial about that.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 9, 2011)

Penance said:


> "It's because I'm a white girl, isn't it? "


----------



## Glued (Oct 9, 2011)

There is a better line from that book.

"I'm a black woman, I've had to deal with things you can't even imagine."


----------



## Cromer (Oct 9, 2011)

Goddammit that's crap. Thank God I didn't buy it in the first place.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 9, 2011)

i haven't herd shit that bad since hudlin's Black Panther run


----------



## Penance (Oct 9, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> There is a better line from that book.
> 
> "I'm a black woman, I've had to deal with things you can't even imagine."



Toilet paper's cheaper, and feels better against my skin...


----------



## Glued (Oct 9, 2011)

Mister Terrific: Just thank the black man who saved your lives.


yes, that is another quote from the book


----------



## Blinky (Oct 9, 2011)

I find it quite funny that they think they're being edgy with that shit but by doing so they're making a character's race their biggest defining feature, which is of course, racist.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 9, 2011)

lol

No, it's not.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 9, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Mister Terrific: Just thank the black man who saved your lives.
> 
> 
> yes, that is another quote from the book



who the fuck is writing this shit?


----------



## Mael (Oct 9, 2011)

Mr. Terrific and Jason Todd...already two winners in my book for DC's slate. 

I can only pray Steph's not going to get as retarded of dialogue as Babs.  Good to know she's Spoiler to avoid potential clusterfuckage.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 9, 2011)

it's reverse racism

which is racism


----------



## Mael (Oct 9, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> who the fuck is writing this shit?



Spike Lee.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 10, 2011)

Mael said:


> Spike Lee.



no.....Spike at least knows some subtlety


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 10, 2011)

Parallax said:


> it's reverse racism
> 
> which is racism



not really racism but its pretty dumb.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 10, 2011)

Parallax said:


> it's reverse racism
> 
> which is racism



Rerverse Racism isn't a real word. 

edit:Hell it doesn't even exist. I'm not sure what you guys are talking about but it sounds the same as when people were complaining about the new ultimate spider-man, I hope that's not the case.

Race I feel is fine for a subtext for a comic, it shouldn't be the main writing point but if someone brings it of in a comic subtly it's cool. They already bring up other social & political  issues.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 10, 2011)

I wasn't serious at all about that :|


----------



## Blinky (Oct 10, 2011)

I was just using some forced irony there not trying to start a _thing_ 

Oh and as for Ultimate Spidey; it really just seems to be about Miles himself becoming spiderman, I don't think there was any tacked on race issues was there ?


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 10, 2011)

I was talking about the backlash specifically.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 10, 2011)

Oh yeah the backlash to that was hilarious. Although that was before the first issue was even out wasn't it ? In the case of Mr. Terrific it's the content people have problems with. 

I don't even care about it I just won't be reading.


----------



## Mael (Oct 10, 2011)

It's not that race shouldn't ever be an issue...it's just that in 2011 after all the slew of superheroes/heroines...I thought we were past this shit.

That and I just don't like Mr. Terrific as a comic book hero altogether.  For that, race has nothing to do with it.


----------



## Glued (Oct 10, 2011)

Not just that, but he continuously repeats how he's the third smartest man on Earth.

I get it, your the third smartest man on Earth.


----------



## Mael (Oct 10, 2011)

Thanks to Gabz, I just learned something terrible about WW.

Flash, please save me.


----------



## Shadow (Oct 10, 2011)

I dont know if everybody got this already but here it is anyway

Batman year one dvd

Human Centipede 2.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 10, 2011)

question is alganon part of the new DC universe?


----------



## illmatic (Oct 10, 2011)

KizaruTachio said:


> I was talking about the backlash specifically.



I read this as the "blacklash" 



Mael said:


> Thanks to Gabz, I just learned something terrible about WW.
> 
> Flash, please save me.


 

Her no-no place is shaved bald?


----------



## Mael (Oct 10, 2011)

illmatic said:


> I read this as the "blacklash"



Blackdraft Blacklash of the Blaxploitation of Blacula and Mr. Terrific's arch-nemesis, Mr. Terriblack.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 10, 2011)

You forget the leader of Young Justice /Blaqualad/

Black + Aqualad = Blaqualad


----------



## Penance (Oct 10, 2011)

Blinky said:


> I was just using some forced irony there not trying to start a _thing_
> 
> *Oh and as for Ultimate Spidey; it really just seems to be about Miles himself becoming spiderman, I don't think there was any tacked on race issues was there ?*



...Not that I saw...


----------



## Parallax (Oct 10, 2011)

Andy Kubert drawing issues 5 and 6


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Oct 10, 2011)

Ah a reboot, perfect time to start reading DC I think.


----------



## Gallant (Oct 10, 2011)

Yeah the dialogue in Mr. Terrific is all kinds of stupid. I bought the first issue at the time but I'll probably browse the second issue first and see if it got less stupid on that front before just randomly picking it up like I did with a lot of the #1s.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 10, 2011)

illmatic said:


> You forget the leader of Young Justice /Blaqualad/
> 
> Black + Aqualad = Blaqualad



_sigh                      ._


----------



## Cromer (Oct 10, 2011)

illmatic said:


> I read this as the "blacklash"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought most superheroines shaved it off.


----------



## Mael (Oct 10, 2011)

So given the writing is Mr. Terrible's arch-nemesis the Klanimal Man? 



Cromer said:


> I thought most superheroines shaved it off.


----------



## Glued (Oct 10, 2011)

No, but Mr. terrific plans to kill a republican presidential candidate by the end of the issue.

Oh yeah, he created a mini Earthquake device to do it.

I'm not even making this shit up.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 10, 2011)

does he? I like him more now


----------



## Glued (Oct 10, 2011)

Oh yeah, the reason Mr. Terrific plans to kill him is not because of what the guy has done, but what he will do.

Mr. Terrific calculates that this candidate will mess up the country so bad that he is doing the ethical thing by killing him before he gets into office.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 10, 2011)

Not convinced you need to be the third smartest person in the world to calculate that 

ok I'll stop.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 10, 2011)

cont. from yesterday as I felt I didn't really get my point across.

Well everything needs subtly. 

Like I said if it brings up racial issues(yes they do still exist) then that's great, make it a subtext not necessarily a plot point. But hey if you can manage to make it a plot point and it works then what the fuck can we say.

Like Holy Terror, not a bad premise per say, it was delicate one. From what I hear Frank Miller didn't really try to handle it subtly he just went balls deep. You can't do that; alot of the comic book reading community isn't really ready for diversity or serious issues. 

See  Aqualad and Ultimate Spiderman, people will either say "Why are they shoving a black man down our throats, this is reverse racism. (not talking about anyone in particular)" or " Lol Blaqualad" Now if you're in the former group then you're one of those people that's probably like, I don't like his race being brought up in context. But I mean if you call someone "Blaqualad" what the fuck do you expect ?

Race is a part of our character, not that it makes someone better than anyone, but a black kid in the bronx and a white kid from the suburbs are going to grow up with different experiences and values. If that happens to come up in how they interact with the world around them then it  should be fine.

I'd actually love if comic books had more heroes that looked like me, not that I wanted it to be exploited by the fact he's black but if he had problems an average black kid in the Guido  has growing up and it was referenced in dialogue then there shouldn't be someone bitching about it. I'd also love to see regular black people that maybe didn't grow up in such poor conditions, is it so bad to ask for a black Jason Todd and a black Steve Rodgers ?

(examples of different living standards in case you didn't get it, cuz I know someone is gonna try to take it literally.)


----------



## Bolt Crank (Oct 10, 2011)

Tweaked origin for Wonder Woman. 



Part of me thinks this is brilliant, because I know certain section of the fandom will hate it (and that makes me happy, but I'm a petty, horrible person).

That aside, I don't mind the idea. If they want to amp up the myth in terms of Diana's surroundings, nothing says mythological more than that particularly deity having illegitimate children.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 10, 2011)

Well, can't say I ever cared about Wonder Woman before the reboot so it makes no difference to me.


----------



## Glued (Oct 10, 2011)

Bolt Crank said:


> Tweaked origin for Wonder Woman.
> 
> .



Well it wouldn't be the first time, probably won't even be the last.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 10, 2011)

i always thought the clay thing was ham fisted her being Zeus kid works for me


----------



## Glued (Oct 10, 2011)

The story originates from Pygmalion where Pygmalion makes an ivory statue, falls in love with it and the Goddess Aphrodite makes the statue, Galatea come to life.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 10, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> The story originates from Pygmalion where Pygmalion makes an ivory statue, falls in love with it and the Goddess Aphrodite makes the statue, Galatea come to life.



yes yes i get the mythology behind it

in the context its used in with wonder woman it feels hamfisted


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 10, 2011)

Greek creation myth says Prometheus made man from clay too.



Zen-aku said:


> yes yes i get the mythology behind it
> 
> in the context its used in with wonder woman it feels hamfisted



How so?


----------



## Penance (Oct 10, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Well, can't say I ever cared about Wonder Woman before the reboot so it makes no difference to me.



Same here...


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 10, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> Greek creation myth says Prometheus made man from clay too.
> 
> 
> 
> How so?



the ultra feminists man haters of paradise island creates the perfect messiah out of clay with no male or hell even biologic interaction

no thank you.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 10, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> Greek creation myth says Prometheus made man from clay too.
> 
> 
> 
> How so?



just does. its very weird and kind of reeks of how obvious it is an excuse to explain how someone can have a kid on an island with no men.

at least to me, its very off-putting that she wasn't born.


----------



## Bender (Oct 10, 2011)

@ Wonder Woman origin news tweaking

Eh, sounds like an alright change to me.


----------



## Glued (Oct 10, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> just does. its very weird and kind of reeks of how obvious it is an excuse to explain how someone can have a kid on an island with no men.
> 
> at least to me, its very off-putting that she wasn't born.



I can still remember the animated movie where hera says that Hippolyta would have a child not tainted by Unholy Union. I was facepalming.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 10, 2011)

Well that made sense after the ares thing in that movie.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 10, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> just does. its very weird and kind of reeks of how obvious it is an excuse to explain how someone can have a kid on an island with no men.
> 
> at least to me, its very off-putting that she wasn't born.



What does this even mean?  I mean, yes, it's obvious because Marston and everyone else directly engaged with Paradise Island being full of nothing but immortal women.

You make it seem like they wrote themselves into a corner and desperately grabbed on to anything they could to get out.


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## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

Just that you're treating it like this totally special, interesting origin that contributes something to her character. And it's not. It's just a device to explain how she could even exist.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Just that you're treating it like this totally special, interesting origin that contributes something to her character. And it's not. It's just a device to explain how she could even exist.



the ultimate feminist icon is the daughter of the ultimate Man whore

sounds like that could lead to a couple of good storys


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

youre not helping


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 11, 2011)

i am not trying to.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Just that you're treating it like this totally special, interesting origin that contributes something to her character. And it's not. It's just a device to explain how she could even exist.



Like I said before, you're spiraling out of control.  

Have you actually read a WW origin story?


----------



## Glued (Oct 11, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> Like I said before, you're spiraling out of control.
> 
> Have you actually read a WW origin story?



I have and I must say it is stupid.

A cave man gets injured by a sabertooth. He goes to his cave where his pregnant mate tries to console him. Out of frustration he lashes out at her. Killing mate and unborn child.

Gaia preserves the soul of unborn child.

It is decided by the Gods that they will create a new race to worship them. A race that will bring peace to men. A race of all women. One who would bring peace to mankind.

These women all had their souls come from women that were murdered by the ignorance of men in their previous lives. One soul, the soul of the unborn cave baby was left for later.

Ares tells Hercules that the amazons are making fun of him.

He goes there and Hippolyta beats him in single combat. Him and all the Greek heroes call for peace.

They betray the Amazons, Herc rapes Hyp and steals her magic girdle as a trophy.

thousands of years later, Hippolyta is given a child by the God using the soul of the unborn cave baby. 

I found the origin story lacking. Hercules gets his ass kicked. Hercules does a bunch of bullshit because Ares tells him that he's being ridiculed. The whole Amazons were the ones who actually created the great philosophy and poems of the Greeks. That Amazons were demonized by jealous men. 

Sorry, but apparently men are weak, ignorant, in need of saving, lying, rapist ever since the first cave man beat his kind and loving mate to death with a rock.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 11, 2011)

I don't like all of George P?rez' stuff either.

How does that make what Petes is getting at, that the clay statue story isn't distinct and is a total plot device true?


----------



## Platinum (Oct 11, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Sorry, but apparently men are weak, ignorant, in need of saving, lying, rapist ever since the first cave man beat his kind and loving mate to death with a rock.



You are only just now getting the memo that men are only good at raping and killing shit ?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> I don't like all of George P?rez' stuff either.
> 
> How does that make what Petes is getting at, that the clay statue story isn't distinct and is a total plot device true?



its distinct. so is red tornado


----------



## Glued (Oct 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> its distinct. so is red tornado



Which one, the one where he is just an elemental android made by T.O. Morrow.

or 

The one where is part machine and part wind elemental Ulthoon?


----------



## Parallax (Oct 11, 2011)

I'm beginning to wonder if ghostworld even likes WW at all anymore all I've heard coming is pretty much how nobody can write her and it all sucks.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 11, 2011)

She was awesome in the Justice League cartoon.

And I liked issue one of the new one, but adding Zeus as her Daddy is cliched and unnecessary.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 11, 2011)

I'm just gonna keep reading and seeing how it develops

I have faith in Azzarello


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 11, 2011)

I don't have faith in DC.

Oooh,  looks nice.

Itty bitty Damian.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Which one, the one where he is just an elemental android made by T.O. Morrow.
> 
> or
> 
> The one where is part machine and part wind elemental Ulthoon?



like i have a clue, he's awful either way


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

pfft bruce... you were dead already and damian was better off!


----------



## Cromer (Oct 11, 2011)

I'm not gonna judge the Wonder Woman thing yet; I still remember prejudging Young Justice, and now I anticipate it every week.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 11, 2011)

I should really read the Dickbats and Damian B&R stuff. This is my first time reading something with Damian in it and I think I'd really enjoy reading more stuff with him in it.


----------



## Penance (Oct 11, 2011)

Hm...I may actually find myself keeping up with Batman and Robin...at least for an arc or two.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 11, 2011)




----------



## Cromer (Oct 11, 2011)

Blinky said:


> I should really read the Dickbats and Damian B&R stuff. This is my first time reading something with Damian in it and I think I'd really enjoy reading more stuff with him in it.


You totally should; it's what brought me back to comics on a regular basis.


----------



## Mael (Oct 11, 2011)

So Bruce is afraid what Damian will become when he's not around?

Didn't we have an alternate future universe spiel elaborating on that where he's Batman but just a lot more unmerciful and where he's essentially running the night like he's Konrad Curze the Night Haunter?

Hmm...Damian...Konrad...I totally see a connection.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 11, 2011)

Yea, and he's doing all that in a BAD ASS trench coat.


----------



## Mael (Oct 11, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, and he's doing all that in a BAD ASS trench coat.



He's undoing the corny trench coat that The Matrix caused.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 11, 2011)

OMAC #1 [*] 	$2.99 	DC 	*33,581*

The worse selling title of 'new 52'?

*EDIT*: 
_DC Comics had the largest percentage of the top 300 comics with 46.59% of the total units sold followed by Marvel Comics with 38.63%._

'_While not all copies will sell to readers, each retailer is buying what they think they can sell so the trends at the retail level should be a close enough reflection of the sales trends at the reader level for the purposes of discussion._'


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 11, 2011)

So what are you getting tomorrow?

Only thing that I remember at the moment to get is Frankenstein, Demon Knights and Superboy.


----------



## Gallant (Oct 11, 2011)

^Batman and Robin
Superboy
Mr. Terrific
Green Lantern

Might get both issues of Demon Knight and the Huntress mini as well but I'll have to wait and see.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 11, 2011)

Tomorrow will be Frankenstein, Demon Knights, Sinestro, Resurrection Man, Superboy, and Suicide Squad for me.

I decided to give SS one more chance. If its not incredible it'll drop it like a hot potato. Resurrection Man may also go just to save money.


----------



## Penance (Oct 11, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Tomorrow will be Frankenstein, Demon Knights, Sinestro, Resurrection Man, Superboy, and Suicide Squad for me.
> 
> I decided to give SS one more chance. If its not incredible it'll drop it like a hot potato. Resurrection Man may also go just to save money.



I'm picking up the same stuff as you, plus B&R


----------



## Cromer (Oct 11, 2011)

I don't see why you're getting Mr. Terrific. Me, It's Demon Knights, Frankenstein, Resurrection Man, and Superboy. I'll wait a bit on Sinestro.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

demon knights and GL


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## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 11, 2011)

Demon Knights, Superboy, Frankenstein, B & R, and maybe GL.

I love GL, but I know of all the titles it needs my money the least.


----------



## Gallant (Oct 11, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I don't see why you're getting Mr. Terrific.



*Assumes this is directed at me*

I'm giving all of the titles I have gotten so far a few issues so its just one of many I probably won't decide to kick to the curb until after issue 3. It and a few other things are benefiting from me being somewhat loose with my bank account right now.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Demon Knights, Superboy, Frankenstein, B & R, and maybe GL.
> 
> I love GL, but I know of all the titles it needs my money the least.



well out of all of those only Demon Knights and Frankenstein really needs support.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 11, 2011)

> Over the past few days, we’ve been linking to all of the exclusive previews of the second issues from DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 that are going on sale tomorrow.
> 
> Below, take a look at all the previews that ran (sorted alphabetically and separated by cover), compiled here in one easy location for your convenience.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

oh hey. batwoman. I forgot about that book!


----------



## illmatic (Oct 11, 2011)

Forgot.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 11, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> So what are you getting tomorrow?
> 
> Only thing that I remember at the moment to get is Frankenstein, Demon Knights and Superboy.



Batgirl
Batwoman
Deathstroke
Demon Knights
Frankenstein
Green Lantern
Resurrection Man
Superboy
The Shade

i've got 28 books this week...god i've got to find something to drop.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 11, 2011)

You can probably start with Deathstroke.


----------



## Mael (Oct 11, 2011)

Batgirl?  Pass.

I'll probably pick up GL and/or Deathstroke.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 11, 2011)

Read the best single sentence description of Red Lanterns today which implants the A-Team theme over the book.

"If your rage is "worthy", and you can find them, you too can have vengeance wreaked on your behalf--just scream!"


----------



## hehey (Oct 11, 2011)

Only new 52 thing on my pull list this week is Superboy. I had others but i got rid them all after the first issue.

Other than that im getting X-Men Regenesis.

im thinking of picking up the fist 2 issues of Suicide Squad and OMAC tomorrow to check them out, who here has read those and what do you think about them?


----------



## Glued (Oct 11, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Read the best single sentence description of Red Lanterns today which implants the A-Team theme over the book.
> 
> *"If your rage is "worthy", and you can find them, you too can have vengeance wreaked on your behalf--just scream!*"



Best Lanterns Ever!!!

They feel the RAGE!!!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 11, 2011)

hehey said:


> Only new 52 thing on my pull list this week is Superboy. I had others but i got rid them all after the first issue.
> 
> Other than that im getting X-Men Regenesis.
> 
> im thinking of picking up the fist 2 issues of Suicide Squad and OMAC tomorrow to check them out, who here has read those and what do you think about them?



Really? No love for Green Lantern?

And do yourself a favor and don't even bother with Suicide Squad. OMAC isn't deep, so don't expect anything super interesting, but its a fun comic featuring a cyborg hulk with a crazy electric mohawk beating the fuck out of shit.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 11, 2011)

Thinking about picking up Deathstroke.....


----------



## hehey (Oct 11, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Really? No love for Green Lantern?


Green Lantern has never been a concept i could get behind, i tried recently though, the LCS guy recommended that i started with the Sinestro Corps War and i did that, i got the trade for it and well... its not a concept i can get behind.

Anyway, the comics that i have tried already and have already dropped from my pull list from the new 52 are *Batgirl*, *Detective Comics*, *Batman & Robin*, *Stormwatch*, *Static Shock*, and* Demon Knights*.


Whats still on my Pull List from the New 52?

Justice League
Action Comics
Batwing
Animal Man
Swamp Thing
Justice League International
Superboy
Batman
Nightwing
Wonder Woman
Red Hood and the Outlaws
Aquaman
Batman: The Dark Knight
The Flash
Voodoo
Teen Titans
Justice League Dark


Based on the first issue it's* very likely* that i will drop *Justice League Dark*

The comics that i liked best from the New 52 and definitely are not going anywhere are* Justice League*, *Batman*, *Action Comics*, *Aquaman*, *Superboy*, and *Teen Titans*.

I have not yet tried any of the other New 52 comics.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 11, 2011)

Wait you didn't like Demon Knights? how come?


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 11, 2011)

Wait why does everyone hate Detective Comics ?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 11, 2011)

KizaruTachio said:


> Wait why does everyone hate Detective Comics ?



Because it's mediocre at best, and it's reliance on the shock factor of "Oh my god Gore!"  is stupid


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 11, 2011)

Detective Comics really wasn't good. All it had going for it was the twist.

It pales when compared to the superior "Batman" book.


----------



## hehey (Oct 11, 2011)

Im not a sword and sorcery kind of guy. 

Its not like ive completely given up on these comics, once the first arcs are over i plan to buy them digitally from comixology when they are $1.99, if their first arcs manage to win me over then i will probably add them back to my pull list, if they don't then they wont be.

and to be fair, even though im not a Sword and Sorcery kind of guy,  *Demon Knights *(and *Stormwatch*) weren't so bad, there is actually a good chance they could win me over. The first issues was just too much stuff going on with too many characters, it didn't do a good job of winning me over initially the way say *Justice League International* did (and it had more characters than *Stormwatch* and *Demon Knights* did).

*Batgirl* i feel is a lost cause, as is* Static Shock*, but you never know.

The two Batman books?, well, i actually did kind of like them at first, but then after reading the awesomeness that was *Batman #1* i couldn't even bare to look at *Detective Comics* and *Batman & Robin* anymore, they just paled in comparison imo i couldn't even read them anymore, also i didn't like Damien... il finish the first arcs when they are cheaper but there's no way il add them back to my pull list.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 11, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Batgirl
> Batwoman
> Deathstroke
> Demon Knights
> ...



Damn, where do you get the money for all that? 

I remembered to get Green Lantern. Maybe Batwoman too, since the villain was mexican.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

KizaruTachio said:


> Wait why does everyone hate Detective Comics ?



HIS MODUS OPERANDI CHANGES WITH THE WIND... AND ITS BEEN WINDY IN GOTHAM CITY

I AM GOTHAM.

THE TOXIN PENETRATES MY PORES. BUT I CAN TAKE IT. IM BATMAN


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 11, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Damn, where do you get the money for all that?
> 
> I remembered to get Green Lantern. Maybe Batwoman too, since the villain was mexican.



I don't know, that's what I had on my pull list...though Week 2 of next month should be shorter as Darkwing Duck, Duck Tales and Red Wing are ending. 

I'm probably going to drop Deathstroke & Resurrection Man tomarrow, and a few of the Image and IDW books, so I can actually afford the good stuff


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 11, 2011)

DC needs to drop Tony Daniel and just give 'TEC to Dini/Nguyen (or even Dini/Daniel) so he can crank out more great one/two shots.

It sucks, because the guy is clearly trying really hard, but Tony is just  not a good writer.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> HIS MODUS OPERANDI CHANGES WITH THE WIND... AND ITS BEEN WINDY IN GOTHAM CITY
> 
> I AM GOTHAM.
> 
> THE TOXIN PENETRATES MY PORES. BUT I CAN TAKE IT. IM BATMAN



I thought it was noir-ish


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

Dini must be busy with other stuff or I'm sure he would've been on a title.

I think Superman needs him more than 'tec tbh. And Daniels has the potential to be decent, I'll still take him over Jurgens anyday. I remember his Black Mask story was alright.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

KizaruTachio said:


> I thought it was noir-ish



noir parody maybe 

saying he can take the nerve gas because he's batman is just impossible to not laugh at.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 11, 2011)

KizaruTachio said:


> Wait why does everyone hate Detective Comics ?



With 4 Batman books around (not counting the other stuff he's in) it's pointless to buy a mediocre Batman book when you can buy a super Batman book.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 11, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> With 4 Batman books around (not counting the other stuff he's in) it's pointless to buy a mediocre Batman book when you can buy a super Batman book.



This makes sense, it's definitely the weakest Batman out of the bunch.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

Is tDK really better? I didn't even bother to read it haha.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 11, 2011)

I found Batman: The Dark Knight to be the worst of the batbooks.

The number of Batbooks and titles where he appears is just too much.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Dini must be busy with other stuff or I'm sure he would've been on a title.



Just checked, he's actually gone over to the other side and is writing for the new Ult. Spidey series coming out.

And of course he was doing arkham city.



> I think Superman needs him more than 'tec tbh.



Yea, Superman is in serious need of a new new writer. Too bad Mark Waid is marvel's now.

I only say Dini should do 'TEC because of how much I loved his run before, and because a one shot book would be a great book for casual fans to just pick up and read.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 11, 2011)

KizaruTachio said:


> This makes sense, it's definitely the weakest Batman out of the bunch.



No that's The Dark Knight. Detective Comics at least has some staying power in it. Dark Knight has none at all, and quite frankly I want to see it gone.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 11, 2011)

Ha I actually completely forgot that book existed.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 11, 2011)

I didn't pick that up actually.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 11, 2011)

I don't think it's possible to take any Batman book where he says "I'M BATMAN" seriously.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

Not in that context.

I also love that he tells Gordon "I'm Gotham!" in a fairly casual conversation. No way Gordon doesn't think he's completely nuts.


----------



## hehey (Oct 11, 2011)

i kept Batman: The Dark Knight on my pull list. 

I cant say that its much better than Batman & Robin or Detective, but it does a better job of not getting its ass kicked by "Batman #1"

Why?, its because of the Bruce Wayne parts that's why, it felt like there were 2 stories going on at once. On one side you got this Detective giving Bruce Wayne a hard time for funding Batman and Batman's allies and wanting to know who Batman's cop buddies in the GCPD were and then as Batman you got whatever the fuck that was that happened at Arkham with the bunny chick (wtf?) and Two Face turning into hulk.

the Batman parts of the book were no better than the batman parts in Detective and B&R and pale in comparison to the Batman stuff in Batman #1.

But i liked the situation Bruce was in with that detective in the Dark Knight and am interested enough in where that's going to go to continue with the book.

You know what?, now that Bruce Wayne is publicly funding Batman Inc, what they should totally do is launch a comic book simply called "Bruce Wayne" and it'd be about Bruce Wayne dealing with the bullshit that comes from the revelation that he funds Batman.  

I would read the shit out of  a comic book about that. The government would surely be on his ass about him funding Batman, it'd be awesome.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 11, 2011)

We don't need a fifth Bruce book. Batman or no Batman the bruce books need some weeding down. One of them needs to be replaced by Gotham Central


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

I have a very hard time believing it was at all better than batman and robin, which was decent. But that's based mostly on the last batman book finch was doing I'll admit. And my general dislike for his art.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> We don't need a fifth Bruce book. Batman or no Batman the bruce books need some weeding down. One of them needs to be replaced by Gotham Central



meh gotham central wouldnt sell nearly as well unfortunately (plus both the writers who did the original and were the reason it worked are at marvel). look at the top 10 books this past month and you'll see why there's so many bruce titles.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 11, 2011)

Have you guys discussed the likelihood of Marvel doing a relaunch, especially considering how well this one is doing ?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 11, 2011)

KizaruTachio said:


> Have you guys discussed the likelihood of Marvel doing a relaunch4, especially considering how well this one is doing ?



They've got thier own system for continuity, I don't think they'll relaunch to be honest


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

I don't think there's any chance of Marvel doing one. They actually have a well built universe and they do a better job of keeping their characters feel relatively fresh


----------



## Blinky (Oct 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Not in that context.
> 
> I also love that he tells Gordon "I'm Gotham!" in a fairly casual conversation. No way Gordon doesn't think he's completely nuts.





And who is he to question sanity ?


----------



## hehey (Oct 11, 2011)

KizaruTachio said:


> Have you guys discussed the likelihood of Marvel doing a relaunch, especially considering how well this one is doing ?



they better not, i really like the schism stuff and am looking forward to the New status quo of Wolverines team vs Cyclops team.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 11, 2011)

hehey said:


> they better not, i really like the schism stuff and am looking forward to the New status quo of Wolverines team vs Cyclops team.



Reboot's across the board isn't really Marvel's style anyways. The way thier continuity and sliding time scale works it allows them to do soft reboots and retcons that usually leave the timeline unaltered...though in some ways the sliding time scale gets kinda wonky

I don't see them completely rebooting


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2011)

DC wouldn't need to either if they didn't screw things up tbh.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 11, 2011)

Though to be fair, DC has a longer continuity starting from an age where they didn't give a darn about continuity.

Marvel is better at keeping their continuity and doing soft retcons here and there. They should stay that way.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 12, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Is tDK really better? I didn't even bother to read it haha.



TDK sucked so much.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 12, 2011)

I didn't even purchase TDK. There's no reason for it to exist. Detective Comics is there for tradition and to get some Batman stories from his early years. Batman is there for solo Batman action from the current timeline. Batman and Robin is there for the Dynamic Duo dynamic (no pun intended). TDK is there because ???.

In other news  I stumbled across this when I was searching for something unrelated. The write-up is in response to  Weather if the DC employee was in the right or not is irrelevant. What matters is the awesomeness will continue.

Edit: 

Some more info on what it'll take for a title from the new 52 to get cancelled. Looks like nothing is even close to being in danger as of yet.


----------



## Glued (Oct 12, 2011)

OMAC has been saved! Yes! Yes! Yes!

More weirdness on the way.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 12, 2011)

Well didn't just about everything sell out?

So nothing being in danger at the moment sounds about right.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 12, 2011)

Besides, I'm sure Didio won't want to cancel his own book, would he?


----------



## Glued (Oct 12, 2011)

Nothing can cancel OMACdonald and his farm.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 12, 2011)

B&R better than the last chap. :33


----------



## Memos (Oct 12, 2011)

I loved Sinestro creating a construct of himself picking up Hal 

He bitched Hal so bad.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 12, 2011)

Demon Knights is out-of-this-world awesome. Fucking Vandal Savage being epic.


----------



## Memos (Oct 12, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Demon Knights is out-of-this-world awesome. Fucking Vandal Savage being epic.



I can't wait to see how they write his... development.


----------



## Penance (Oct 12, 2011)

Green Lantern BOSS twice in a row...


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 12, 2011)

As much as I liked GL I have to ask.

How consistent for a Green Lantern being able to make a power ring as a construct ?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 12, 2011)

never seen it happen before but sinestro is talented I supposed, and created the whole sinestro corps.


----------



## Memos (Oct 12, 2011)

Either Hal or Kyle's ring has been shown to be able to clone, but this is new. But considering it's Sinestro, and that it isn't a usual ring what with it being under Sinestro's control, I didn't think too much of it.


----------



## Penance (Oct 12, 2011)

Lulz at Hal trying to take a cheap shot...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 12, 2011)

Yea that was hilarious. As was Sinestro being like bitch please and shutting him down with ease.

I look forward to more instances of Hal being in the middle of awesoming and Sinestro just shutting him down for the hell of it.


----------



## Memos (Oct 12, 2011)

Am I the only one that doesn't want to lose Sinestro as a GL after this arc is done and Hal gets his ring back?


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 12, 2011)

Demon Knights from now on will be known as Vandal Savage. I want a dinosaur burger now.

Sinestro was great, Frankenstein was great, Superboy wasn't as good as last week but still pretty good. Suicide Squad was a huge improvement. Resurrection Man ws solid, but I really need to start dropping things. Bye bye Resurrection Man.


----------



## Penance (Oct 12, 2011)

Memos said:


> Am I the only one that doesn't want to lose Sinestro as a GL after this arc is done and Hal gets his ring back?



You're not...


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 12, 2011)

I want Sinestro to remain the protagonist of GL and Hal can just be some random GL like Kilowog or someone.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 12, 2011)

Ahh but Sinestro is best when hes messing with Hal. I expected the 2 of them to have to work side by side again but not so soon.... and not in such a funny arrangement


----------



## Taleran (Oct 12, 2011)

Man GL#2 was exactly what that comic needs to be always. That issue is shooting it up my list.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 12, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Man GL#2 was exactly what that comic needs to be always. That issue is shooting it up my list.



Pretty much this. The Sinestro/Hal dynamic is the meat of this book, and I love seeing it played for laughs while at the same time being really badass and staying true to both characters.



MrChubz said:


> Demon Knights from now on will be known as Vandal Savage. I want a dinosaur burger now.



Indeed, Demon Knights was most epic.


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Oct 12, 2011)

Seriously,why the fuck is Kathy Kane skin whiter than a fucking albino??


----------



## Glued (Oct 12, 2011)

Sinestro is responsible for so much bull, I'm sorry, I'm just sticking to Atrocitus and his Reds.

Sinestro has no right to wear the green ring.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 12, 2011)

hes stuck with the ring against his will but sure have fun with benes art


----------



## Penance (Oct 12, 2011)

#2's:

Resurrection Man...Good
Batman and Robin...Good
Demon Knights...BOSS
Frankenstein...BOSS
Green Lantern...BOSS
Suicide Squad...BOSS
Superboy...Eh


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 12, 2011)

Was suicide squad really that good? THe first issue was god awful terrible, and the overall premise sounds like it'd be really hard to make the book quality.

Although to be honest, my biggest gripe with Suicide Squad is that it exists and Secret Six got cancelled.


----------



## Glued (Oct 12, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> hes stuck with the ring against his will but sure have fun with benes art



Kill da muda, lock him in prison, have his memory wiped at least.


----------



## Penance (Oct 12, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Was suicide squad really that good? THe first issue was god awful terrible, and the overall premise sounds like it'd be really hard to make the book quality.
> 
> Although to be honest, my biggest gripe with Suicide Squad is that it exists and Secret Six got cancelled.



Well, that depends: What'd you think was bad about the first issue?


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 12, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Kill da muda, lock him in prison, have his memory wiped at least.



That sounds copout-ish


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 12, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Kill da muda, lock him in prison, have his memory wiped at least.



Um why? what provokes this reaction for Sinestro when Atrocitus (Whose book you're going to read over Sinestro's) is even more violent.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 12, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Um why? what provokes this reaction for Sinestro when Atrocitus (Whose book you're going to read over Sinestro's) is even more violent.



more violent doesn't mean more dangerous or evil in this situation


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 12, 2011)

Personal gripes with the character in question I imagine.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 12, 2011)

Blue_Panter_Ninja said:


> Seriously,why the fuck is Kathy Kane skin whiter than a fucking albino??




Most Redhead women are naturally pale with some that are really pale.

As shown in Batman INC, Kathy Kane & Kate Kane are two different people


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 12, 2011)

Penance said:


> Well, that depends: What'd you think was bad about the first issue?



Honestly I don't remember, other than some of the characterizations. But I remember not liking it. I'll still probably check out issue 2 because I like Deadshot and King Shark.

Anyways, Batgirl continues to read like Barbara Gordon impersonating Stephanie Brown, so probably won't be reading that anymore.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 12, 2011)

Penance said:


> #2's:
> 
> Resurrection Man...Good
> Batman and Robin...Good
> ...


Pretty much my thoughts. Superboy had a good first issue but the second issue just didn't do it for me. I won't drop the title (yet) but I hope that the issue is just a fluke.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Was suicide squad really that good? THe first issue was god awful terrible, and the overall premise sounds like it'd be really hard to make the book quality.
> 
> Although to be honest, my biggest gripe with Suicide Squad is that it exists and Secret Six got cancelled.


IMO it was a huge improvement over the first issue. For starters we get to see some of the team dynamic and we get to know the characters a little and they're actually enjoyable. The plot is nothing ground breaking but it does its job. I'd give SS one more chance.



Ben Grimm said:


> Kill da muda, lock him in prison, have his memory wiped at least.


You're under the impression that the Gaurdians of OA don't have shit-for-brains.



Petes12 said:


> Ahh but Sinestro is best when hes messing with Hal. I expected the 2 of them to have to work side by side again but not so soon.... and not in such a funny arrangement


My biggest fear is that Sinestro gets the ring taken away and we're stuck with just Hal. However the current status quo is fun.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 12, 2011)

Gail Simone Quits Firestorm?



> The hottest rumour burning down the pre-NYCC parties is that Gail Simone, co-writer of DC Relaunch title  Fury Of Firestorm: The Nuclear Men with Ethan Van Sciver, has walked off the comic.
> 
> The reason being given by the Manhattan tittle tattlers is over editorial conflicts over the book, the kind of thing alluded to here.
> 
> ...


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm sure sinestro will always have a ring of some kind but it is Hal's book in the end.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 12, 2011)

NYCC | Marc Bernardin to write DC’s Static Shock


> DC Comics has selected Marc Bernardin as the new writer of Static Shock, replacing John Rozum, who announced his departure from the relaunched title last month.
> 
> Bernardin, a former senior editor for Entertainment Weekly who co-wrote The Highwaymen and The Authority for DC, will join current artist/co-writer Scott McDaniel with March’s Issue 7.
> 
> ...


----------



## Gallant (Oct 12, 2011)

I skipped Batgirl's 2nd issue altogether. The 1st one had me face palming too much and the preview for the second one didn't make me feel any better either.

Superboy was solid this week. I enjoyed him actually getting out and getting in some action.

Mr. Terrific managed to improve with the second issue thankfully. No extremely stupid dialogue like last issue to drag it down and it was just a better read in general in comparison to last month.

Read both 1 and 2 of Demon Knights today. Awesome stuff and I'm definitely picking up future issues. 

The winner of week 2 was definitely Green Lantern. The Hal and Sinestro dynamic really made this issue shine. I enjoyed Sinestro keeping Hal on a leash and switching off his ring whenever he wanted to.

Got the Huntress mini that came out last week as well. It was a good read and as usual I love Marcus To's art. Makes me wish it could have been one of the 52 instead of just a mini-series but oh well.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 12, 2011)

batgirl wasn't bad, its still not for you if you don't like Simone's over the top villains but I get the impression a lot of hate for it is just cus of the oracle thing and not the comic's own merits.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 12, 2011)

illmatic said:


> NYCC | Marc Bernardin to write DC?s Static Shock



Now if only they could get a new artist....


----------



## Gallant (Oct 12, 2011)

Well its nice that they managed to find another writer for it. Here is hoping it does well moving forward.



Petes12 said:


> batgirl wasn't bad, its still not for you if you don't like Simone's over the top villains but I get the impression a lot of hate for it is just cus of the oracle thing and not the comic's own merits.



Has little to do with oracle for me as I'm not attached to her as a character like most people were. Its probably just the way its been written so far that isn't appealing to me.


----------



## Glued (Oct 12, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Um why? what provokes this reaction for Sinestro when Atrocitus (Whose book you're going to read over Sinestro's) is even more violent.



Imagine if Red Skull joined the Avengers as a teammate. 



> You're under the impression that the Gaurdians of OA don't have shit-for-brains.


To MrChubz:

This goes beyond retarded.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 12, 2011)

Static really does deserve a better artist, a better creative team in general than whats on the first 2 issues. 

Grimm the difference is the Guardians remember a time when they loved the fuck out of sinestro.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 12, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> batgirl wasn't bad, its still not for you if you don't like Simone's over the top villains but I get the impression a lot of hate for it is just cus of the oracle thing and not the comic's own merits.



I don't like it because this doesn't seem to be an evolution of Babs as a character. Its like when Babs got her legs back all the development that happened while she was oracle was gone.

That, and Babs here is written so differently (way more peppy, much less dry and sardonic) that she seems more like Stephanie Brown than Babs Gordon. And if they were going to do it that way, why not just continue BQM's Batgirl and have a walking active Oracle in BoP?

I guess that counts as "the oracle thing", but I suppose I just don't like new 52 Babs.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 12, 2011)

file under

RE: Oracle


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 12, 2011)

Batgirl 2 was even worse than 1.

Babsgirl's incompetence makes Steph look like a pro.


----------



## Penance (Oct 12, 2011)

"Stien's alive", huh?  

Well, I figured as much (More like he's one of the Firestorms we were shown)...


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 13, 2011)

see my above post gab

i said before not letting someone fall to their death isn't incompetent and I stand by it. you're allowed to not like it just cus it isn't steph by miller, you don't need to get all ridiculous about barbara's 'competence'


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 13, 2011)

Its not really a matter of competence, more that I don't like the changes made to her personality. I think that counts as the comics own merits and not just "the oracle problem".

Unless the decision to write out Babs time and development as Oracle (or just ignore it in book) was editorial, I guess.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 13, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Batgirl 2 was even worse than 1.
> 
> Babsgirl's incompetence makes Steph look like a pro.



yeah? its hard to believe that the books bad, i mean Writing bat girl should be as easy as breathing For Simone

Not reading it my self, dont like the character, and i can only handle small doses of Gail Simone as far as personal taste goes

Is it "i dont like it" bad or is it "Mister Terrific" bad?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 13, 2011)

Definitely not mister terrific bad. Honestly I'd love this book if it was set before TKJ starring a teenage Babs.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 13, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Its not really a matter of competence, more that I don't like the changes made to her personality. I think that counts as the comics own merits and not just "the oracle problem".
> 
> Unless the decision to write out Babs time and development as Oracle (or just ignore it in book) was editorial, I guess.



wasnt really talking about you but I think they just needed to make her not totally over being shot and undo some of that 'development' (and really i think shes had a few times already where she's 'gotten over it') because otherwise whats the point of keeping that history at all if the story there is already over.

gabz has brought up her competence a few times though. i think its silly but i understand the sourness over the book.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 13, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> see my above post gab
> 
> i said before not letting someone fall to their death isn't incompetent and I stand by it. you're allowed to not like it just cus it isn't steph by miller, you don't need to get all ridiculous about barbara's 'competence'



Let's count:

- she miscalculates and sends them both flying over a rooftop
- she lets the villain trick her into giving him her hand when she's standing on a gargoyle on weak legs
- she pursues the villain with no plan and engages in hand to hand combat when he's stronger than her and she knows her legs are weak
- she steals his papers, getting her hands on info and then tells him about it. Let's note that she stated several times how smart she is

I see a pattern. 

Sorry if I'd rather be reading about the competent woman she was instead of this girl who believes herself to be so smart yet she shows nothing to prove it.



Zen-aku said:


> yeah? its hard to believe that the books bad, i mean Writing bat girl should be as easy as breathing For Simone
> 
> Not reading it my self, dont like the character, and i can only handle small doses of Gail Simone as far as personal taste goes
> 
> Is it "i dont like it" bad or is it "Mister Terrific" bad?



I'm one of the people who doesn't believe Gail Simone is _that _good, so...

"i don't like it bad". Mr Terrific was a whole new level of awful.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 13, 2011)

I'm curious what the DickBabs dynamic is going to be like. Its funny that Babs is supposed to be older than Dick, since judging from their comics I would assume the opposite.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 13, 2011)

So wow Suicide Squad was actually sort of.... decent.

Going to read some other things now.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 13, 2011)

Ahaha Sinestro toying with Hal like a boss.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 13, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Imagine if Red Skull joined the Avengers as a teammate.
> 
> 
> To MrChubz:
> ...



You still don't understand how retarded the guardians of OA are. For instance, they let a guy who created an entire army to fight the GL Corps run around as pretty as he pleases with their own weapon. However after that decision they lobotomize a guy for disagreeing about them about said decision.

In their minds disagreement > creating a terrorist army to overthrow your organization of peace keepers.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 13, 2011)

My Greatest Adventure...apart from Tanga, meh.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 13, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Let's count:
> 
> - she miscalculates and sends them both flying over a rooftop
> - she lets the villain trick her into giving him her hand when she's standing on a gargoyle on weak legs
> ...



- point is she's out of practice
- oh noez she's ethical
- oh no she chased the bad guy...
- she read the paper so she got the info, what should she have done, somehow slip it back into his pocket?


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 13, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> - point is she's out of practice
> - oh noez she's ethical
> - oh no she chased the bad guy...
> - she read the paper so she got the info, what should she have done, somehow slip it back into his pocket?



- she shouldn't be in the streets then
- ethical =/= idiotic
- without a plan
- not tell the dude who's kicking her ass that she got the papers from him


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 13, 2011)

So got around to reading Batgirl...I still feel most of what's going on with her can be explained due to being rusty and out of practice...if you can ignore that it's a decent read through.

I'm giving this one more Issue to really wow me though, after that i'm taking it off my pull list.

Edit: As much as I appreciate that Deatstroke "Is Turn your brain off Fun" personified I think i'm going to drop it and replace it with Batman and Robin on my pull list


----------



## Platinum (Oct 13, 2011)

All in all a pretty decent week.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 13, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> - not tell the dude who's kicking her ass that she got the papers from him



not going over the others again but youre still wrong on them

why not tell him, if it'll throw him off? hes gonna notice theyre missing anyway


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 13, 2011)

Platinum said:


> All in all a pretty decent week.



Agreed...though i think i'm going to drop Deathstroke and Resurrection Man...both are good, but they don't offer enough to warrent me continuing to buy them

Best of the lot this week goes to Demon Knights, Frankenstein and Green Lantern.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 13, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> not going over the others again but youre still wrong on them



Well, if you say so! 



Petes12 said:


> why not tell him, if it'll throw him off? hes gonna notice theyre missing anyway



Because he's currently kicking her ass and telling him only made him angrier? She was lucky the police showed up, she'd be dead otherwise.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 13, 2011)

he was already trying to kill her, making him angry only works to her advantage


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Oct 13, 2011)

Gallant said:


> Got the Huntress mini that came out last week as well. It was a good read and as usual I love Marcus To's art. Makes me wish it could have been one of the 52 instead of just a mini-series but oh well.



Hey, if the mini sells well enough...


----------



## Cash (Oct 13, 2011)

Animal Man issue was glorious. 

OMAC, Green Lantern, Demon Knights, JLI and Action Comics was too 

Dont know if I should read this Nightwing issue and dropped Batgirl. Oh yea, I gotta peep Batwoman.


----------



## Gallant (Oct 14, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Hey, if the mini sells well enough...



I will be keeping my fingers crossed and hope that it does.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 14, 2011)

Anyone read the shade mini?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 14, 2011)

I've read it.

So welcome from Robinson. But I'm not too wild about the art. It's good, but I don't think it's the right 'feel' for the story. I keep on thinking of the previous Shade art.

Also, rumors are going around about Simone quitting Firestorm.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 14, 2011)

That'd be no good only because  the only way that book is going to be successful is to build momentum in one continuous run.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 14, 2011)

Plus I imagine Gail Simone's name on the cover helps a bit.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 14, 2011)

Deathstroke is giving me my ultraviolence fix...


----------



## Platinum (Oct 14, 2011)

Deathstroke has been 100 times more brutal than 'brutality has a new name' hawkman.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 14, 2011)

Platinum said:


> Anyone read the shade mini?



I have, it's a good read. Always nice to see something from Robinson again...and The Shade's a great character.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 14, 2011)

*Exclusive Preview: Batman Fights Superman in 'Justice League'*

_Get a sneak peek at the second issue of DC Comics' relaunched flagship title_

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...an-fights-superman-in-justice-league-20111013


----------



## Memos (Oct 14, 2011)

illmatic said:


> *Exclusive Preview: Batman Fights Superman in 'Justice League'*
> 
> _Get a sneak peek at the second issue of DC Comics' relaunched flagship title_
> 
> http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...an-fights-superman-in-justice-league-20111013



"Talk, while I choke the shit out of you!"

Oh, Supes.


----------



## Cash (Oct 14, 2011)

Thats what he gets. Hal had it under control.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 14, 2011)

'You're *funny,* Green Lantern'. Is Hal about to get raped again? Man, Geoff sure seems to have it in for Hal these days. Almost makes me want to pity him. Almost.


----------



## Gallant (Oct 14, 2011)

Platinum said:


> Deathstroke has been 100 times more brutal than 'brutality has a new name' hawkman.



Hawkman needs to keep up with Deathstroke.



illmatic said:


> *Exclusive Preview: Batman Fights Superman in 'Justice League'*
> 
> _Get a sneak peek at the second issue of DC Comics' relaunched flagship title_
> 
> http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...an-fights-superman-in-justice-league-20111013



Looks like great stuff. I can't wait for this one to come out.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 15, 2011)

> Big news out of New York Comic Con: Shazam is coming to DC COMICS-THE NEW 52. Written by NEW YORK TIMES bestselling author Geoff Johns and illustrated by acclaimed artist Gary Frank, THE CURSE OF SHAZAM will unfold as a back-up adventure that will appear in JUSTICE LEAGUE – also written by Johns. What manner of adventure is in store for Billy Batson and his big, red alter ego? It’s too soon to say for sure, but you can bet that THE SOURCE will have all the updates, so stay tuned.



Oh man this is a train wreck waiting to happen.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 15, 2011)

gary frank drawing kids, or anyone who smiles, is never a good idea. i dont have a problem with johns writing it though.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 15, 2011)

Is it weird that I kinda like Captain Marvel ? I take it they've taken to just reffering to him as Shazam now.


----------



## Memos (Oct 15, 2011)

I liked Captain Marvel when he went full retard in Kingdom Come.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 15, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Is it weird that I kinda like Captain Marvel ? I take it they've taken to just reffering to him as Shazam now.



Nah Shazam has just almost always been the title for his books


----------



## illmatic (Oct 15, 2011)

I liked the Flashpoint  version known as "Captain Thunder".

If DC actually called the book "Captain Marvel", Well MARVEL would have a fit about it.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 15, 2011)

Memos said:


> I liked Captain Marvel when he went full retard in Kingdom Come.



That was hilarious.


----------



## Glued (Oct 15, 2011)

Shazam, Shazam, SHAZAM!!!


----------



## Devil Kings (Oct 17, 2011)

I actually found it weird that DC would choose Grifter above Captain Marvel to flagship there new 52.

I just hope they don't fuck him up.


----------



## Penance (Oct 17, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> I actually found it weird that DC would choose Grifter above Captain Marvel to flagship there new 52.
> 
> I just hope they don't fuck him up.



Same here...but Cap. Marvel's...always finding ways to get jobbed...


----------



## Taleran (Oct 17, 2011)

This cover is so so so so so so hilarious.


----------



## Glued (Oct 17, 2011)

Taleran said:


> This cover is so so so so so so hilarious.



[YOUTUBE]IhnUgAaea4M[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Memos (Oct 17, 2011)

Taleran said:


> This cover is so so so so so so hilarious.



They're keeping Hal in the back so he doesn't get his ass kicked again.


----------



## Glued (Oct 17, 2011)

They didn't make the America level high enough


----------



## Parallax (Oct 17, 2011)

you only think it's hilarious cause you're a Canuck


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 17, 2011)

Taleran said:


> This cover is so so so so so so hilarious.



By hilarious I hope you mean amazing.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Oct 17, 2011)

Looks very Warhammer 40k with the huge power armoured dude in the middle holding that goofy flag.


----------



## Glued (Oct 17, 2011)

Too Subtle?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Oct 17, 2011)

For a moment I thought Hal was supposed to be a knight of the KKK


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 17, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Too Subtle?



you know what

i kinda like that look for wonderwoman


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Oct 17, 2011)

I can easily see them earing that stuff but only in something good written by Grant Morrison or something awful written by Frank Miller.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 17, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Looks very Warhammer 40k with the huge power armoured dude in the middle holding that goofy flag.



You know the words "Halt xeno scum" and "For the Imperium" did pop into my head there when I saw that image


----------



## Glued (Oct 17, 2011)

Why just Cyborg, why not flags for everyone


----------



## Cromer (Oct 17, 2011)

So yeah, removing the 'of America' outdated shit really didn't matter in the end, did it?


----------



## Glued (Oct 17, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> you know what
> 
> i kinda like that look for wonderwoman



I've always thought that if Wonder Woman should have a father, than it should be Uncle Sam.

It would be a perfect explanation as to why she wears the American flag on her buttocks.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Oct 17, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I've always thought that if Wonder Woman should have a father, than it should be Uncle Sam.
> 
> It would be a perfect explanation as to why she wears the American flag on her buttocks.



Yeah but that explanation would be accompanied by years of painful therapy


----------



## Penance (Oct 17, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> They didn't make the America level high enough







Cromer said:


> So yeah, removing the 'of America' outdated shit really didn't matter in the end, did it?



The end?  B-but...it's the beginning...


----------



## Cromer (Oct 17, 2011)

And looking at the solicits, I see O.M.A.C and Frankenstein are due to go head 2 head in January.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 17, 2011)

Grimm did you make that masterpiece or did you just find it online


----------



## Penance (Oct 17, 2011)

Cromer said:


> And looking at the solicits, I see O.M.A.C and Frankenstein are due to go head 2 head in January.



*Rooting for Frankie*


----------



## Glued (Oct 17, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Grimm did you make that masterpiece or did you just find it online



I made all three.


----------



## Glued (Oct 17, 2011)

Penance said:


> *Rooting for Frankie*



Rooting for OMAC, who knows, Maybe they'll have a Hulk/Thing rivalry.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 17, 2011)

Penance said:


> *Rooting for Frankie*





Ben Grimm said:


> Rooting for OMAC, who knows, Maybe they'll have a Hulk/Thing rivalry.




Rooting for Black Adam, just for shits and giggles and showing up.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 17, 2011)

Taleran said:


> This cover is so so so so so so hilarious.



am i the only one who finds the most remarkable thing about this cover it's total lack of batman? 

at least its cyborg with the flag and not superman or wonder woman, so it doesn't feel like DC is still stuck in the 40s/50s.


----------



## Glued (Oct 17, 2011)




----------



## Blinky (Oct 17, 2011)

That's pretty awesome.


----------



## Penance (Oct 17, 2011)

Niiiiccccce....


----------



## Glued (Oct 17, 2011)

Frankenstein maybe smarter, but OMAC has better strength feats so far.

I'm betting on OMAC winning


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 17, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> am i the only one who finds the most remarkable thing about this cover it's total lack of batman?
> 
> at least its cyborg with the flag and not superman or wonder woman, so it doesn't feel like DC is still stuck in the 40s/50s.



Batman's a Commie Nazi Terrorist.


----------



## Penance (Oct 17, 2011)

S.O.M.B.I.E will tell him how to shut O.M.A.C down...


----------



## Blinky (Oct 17, 2011)

Liefeld is drawing issue 5 of Blue Beetle. I hope to god it's just for that issue


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 17, 2011)

errrr

BLUE BEETLE #5
Written by TONY BEDARD
Art by IG GUARA and J.P. MAYER


----------



## hehey (Oct 17, 2011)

reading Action comics #1 again, asnd previous interviews about Superman's new persona and stuff... isnt *A Death in The Family* still canon over in Batman?

You know, over in that comic Superman was sent by the State Department to stop Batman from hurting Joker after he killed Robin, since Joker had diplomatic immunity and all that from Iran.

Its still canon?, cause looking at current Superman that just doesn't seem like a position he could get behind.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 17, 2011)

Action Comics is set in the past. Justice League is also set in the past.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 17, 2011)

THIS IS AWESOME

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY DC


----------



## Devil Kings (Oct 17, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> THIS IS AWESOME
> 
> SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY DC



Mexican fucking Superman, fucking brilliant.


----------



## Penance (Oct 17, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> THIS IS AWESOME
> 
> SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY DC



SuperManuel...


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 17, 2011)

hehey said:


> reading Action comics #1 again, asnd previous interviews about Superman's new persona and stuff... isnt *A Death in The Family* still canon over in Batman?
> 
> You know, over in that comic Superman was sent by the State Department to stop Batman from hurting Joker after he killed Robin, since Joker had diplomatic immunity and all that from Iran.
> 
> Its still canon?, cause looking at current Superman that just doesn't seem like a position he could get behind.



The broad strokes are still canon, dunno about the ridiculously stupid UN Joker crap though.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 17, 2011)

Se?or Clarko Quien del Planeta Diario, reportandose!


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 18, 2011)

Taleran said:


> This cover is so so so so so so hilarious.


That's the greatest thing ever.

That's the greater thing ever.



Ben Grimm said:


> Frankenstein maybe smarter, but OMAC has better strength feats so far.
> 
> I'm betting on OMAC winning


OMAC sweeps all around the board. He's stronger, more durable, and has Brother Eye telling him what to do, so his stupidity doesn't matter.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 18, 2011)

All we know is that it's going to be epic.

We should bet on who wins. My money is going on Franky.


----------



## Penance (Oct 18, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> All we know is that it's going to be epic.
> 
> We should bet on who wins. My money is going on Franky.



Same here.  Sorry, OMAC...


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 18, 2011)

Frank's got nothing that can put OMAC down. If OMAC could kick giant concrete Amazing Man (or whatever his name was)'s ass he can defeat Frankenstein.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 18, 2011)

We doing bets then? With avy+sig on the line, I suppose?


----------



## Whimsy (Oct 18, 2011)

No, cold, hard cash.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 18, 2011)

Kick that Hellboy knock off's ass OMAC



Petes12 said:


> errrr
> 
> BLUE BEETLE #5
> Written by TONY BEDARD
> Art by IG GUARA and J.P. MAYER





I just realised they mixed up the solication with the one for Hawk & Dove.


----------



## Glued (Oct 18, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Kick that Hellboy knock off's ass OMAC
> 
> 
> 
> ...





MrChubz said:


> That's the greatest thing ever.
> 
> 
> That's the greater thing ever.
> ...





Yeah, but Frankenstein has the sword of Archangel Michael, which destroyed Solomon Grundy.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 18, 2011)

Much as I like Frank and 'meh' to O.M.A.C, if you think O.M.A.C loses then this is mighty appropriate for you:

Link removed

(I utterly fail at figuring out how the [YOUTUBE] tag works.


----------



## mali (Oct 18, 2011)

Just read issue 2 of GL, Hal is Sinestros bitch 
Red Lanterns was pretty good as well, Atrocitus trying to do a little rebooting himself lol.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 18, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Yeah, but Frankenstein has the sword of Archangel Michael, which destroyed Solomon Grundy.



Solomon Grundy is a chump. When OMACtivates, nothing can stop him.


----------



## Glued (Oct 18, 2011)

Solomon Grundy in his mini series fought Poison Ivy, AMAZO, Frankenstein, Alan Scott, and Etrigan.

Although Frankenstein himself isn't that strong, his sword is extremely powerful.

What happens when Frankenstein uses the Sword of Archangel Michael on OMAC?


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 18, 2011)

Fight it with his electric, fish-tail Mohawk.


----------



## Glued (Oct 18, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Fight it with his electric, fish-tail Mohawk.



Frank gives OMAC a haircut.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 18, 2011)

Didn't Frankenstein kill Hitler in his Flashpoint tie-in ? That's hilarious.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 18, 2011)

> _Over the past few days, we’ve been linking to all of the exclusive previews of the second issues from DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 that are going on sale tomorrow.
> 
> Below, take a look at all the previews that ran (sorted alphabetically and separated by cover), compiled here in one easy location for your convenience._


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 18, 2011)

Red Hood, Wonder Woman and GLC look great

Jason Todd brings out certain reactions in people doesn't he?


----------



## Penance (Oct 18, 2011)

^I was thinking the same thing...



^So Jason's no older than 20, then...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 18, 2011)

So...how did Jason come back in this timeline if Infinite Crisis never happened?

Or does this mean despite Didio saying no Crisis's happened they actually did?


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 18, 2011)

i am just gonna pretend the Red hood movie is canon


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 18, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> i am just gonna pretend the Red hood movie is canon



You mean dumping him in a Lazarus Pit, because Ra's felt bad for letting the Joker kill him?

Sure why not? it makes more sense than Prime punching the walls of reality.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 19, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> i am just gonna pretend the Red hood movie is canon



A lot of the DCnU actually makes more sense when you go with the movie versions of events. Like Superman: Doomsday had only one fake superman, the cyborg one, which is the only one in DCnU cannon to pop up other than superboy who's only appearing now.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 19, 2011)

Yup, any conflicts with the comics are easily rectified by assuming the animated movie version happened instead.


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Oct 19, 2011)

Does anyone have any thoughts, positive or negative on Detective Comics?


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 19, 2011)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts, positive or negative on Detective Comics?



It tries too hard to be The Dark Knight Returns.


----------



## Devil Kings (Oct 19, 2011)

Don't really care for the Batman books. Detective Comic to me was boring. The only one i like was Batman and Robin, and that's mostly because of Bruce and Damian's interaction.

Edit: I also like the Batwing.


----------



## Memos (Oct 19, 2011)

Wow, who knew Bats had such a filthy mouth. I guess that's what happens when you grow up without parents.


----------



## Penance (Oct 19, 2011)

Memos said:


> Wow, who knew Bats had such a filthy mouth. I guess that's what happens when you grow up without parents.



@ Micheal Moore in Batman...


----------



## Penance (Oct 19, 2011)

Batman and Green Lantern Corps #2: BOSS
Supergirl #2: Good

*Goes to read JL#2*


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 19, 2011)

Enjoyed JL #2 on a quick flip-through. Surprised to see one of the members appear so quick, as well as the fact that he'd actually had contact with another of the team. I don't think this will get quite the bitchfest that the first issue got.


----------



## Penance (Oct 19, 2011)

^Ah, Hal...  Getting no real love on any comic that you're on...

JL#2:BOSS (Don't know about it's staying power, though)


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 19, 2011)

*checks Catwoman #2*

Oh, this is going to be a fun week.


----------



## Memos (Oct 19, 2011)

Really liked JL #2 actually. Highlight was Flash being awesome. I loved that no one really trusts each other, apart from Hal and Barry's little clique


----------



## Penance (Oct 19, 2011)

WW #2: Really good ( fucking Hera)
Nightwing #2: Good

*On to the Outlaws*


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 19, 2011)

I heard Outlaws is a hot mess.

Can't wait to read it.


----------



## Penance (Oct 19, 2011)

^Yup...

Outlaws #2: Meh

Blue Beetle#2:BOSS?


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 19, 2011)

Outlaws was fun

Wonder Woman was interesting but the pacing seems weird

Blue Beetle was Meh


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 19, 2011)

JL is certainly the highlight for this week. I love how GL and Batman were simply trying to live against Superman then The Flash comes and goes toe-to-toe with him.

Red Hood was meh
Batman was good
WW was good
GL Corps was good.

Aside from JL nothing I read this week was particularly great.


----------



## Penance (Oct 19, 2011)

Idk, I'd at least put GLC up there with it, this week...


----------



## Cromer (Oct 19, 2011)

Blue Beetle #2 is dare I say it, even better than #1.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 19, 2011)

Justice League was awesome. It was full of fun character moments.

Superman and Flash being awesome
Batman being made fun of
Hal still being a bitch

Enjoyable.


----------



## Glued (Oct 19, 2011)

Tell me, which comic had the most blood, gore and violence this week.


----------



## Penance (Oct 19, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Justice League was awesome. It was full of fun character moments.
> 
> Superman and Flash being awesome
> Batman being made fun of
> ...



fx'd...

Really though, Doc Stone...


----------



## Penance (Oct 19, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Tell me, which comic had the most blood, gore and violence this week.



Hm...Outlaws, I think...


----------



## Cromer (Oct 19, 2011)

Err...GLC 2? I dunno, I'm doing the illegal thing for four comics right now, and I read BB 2 of my sis's iPad earlier. I can't say until my deadtrees come in, and that could be tomorrow, or next week, or even 12 days from now


----------



## Memos (Oct 19, 2011)

I really didn't like GLC this week.


----------



## Penance (Oct 19, 2011)

^Oh, yeah-limbs cut off a dinosaur space cop.  Can't exactly top that...


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 19, 2011)

Penance said:


> Idk, I'd at least put GLC up there with it, this week...



It was good, but imo, nothing spectacular. It has the same problem as most stories with random GL members. The random GL's are useless. The problem with that is random GL's being useless are taking away time from the GL's I actually care about (Guy and John). Maybe if I knew the other GL's more I'd enjoy it more.




Penance said:


> ^Oh, yeah-limbs cut off a dinosaur space cop.  Can't exactly top that...


Random useless GL was random and useless.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 19, 2011)

Isamot isn't random.....


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 19, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Tell me, which comic had the most blood, gore and violence this week.



Red Hood or GLC


----------



## Cromer (Oct 19, 2011)

Isamot and Vath ( though Vath was absent) are NOT random.


----------



## Memos (Oct 19, 2011)

GLC does have a larger main cast than the other GL books, but it's the same group usually.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 19, 2011)

And also, lol at Batman randomly stealing the show in Catwoman. Winick is doing his main character a disservice, bringing the Bat in so prominently so early.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 19, 2011)

So, a year & half ago Jason Todd was just Jason Todd.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 19, 2011)

Final comic was Nightwing, and now I'm confused. Didn't Dick* buy* Haly's way back during Dixon's run? Or was it Bruce Jones? Tomasi? I don't remember, but I do know Dick owns Haly's circus.


So why is Haly giving Dick the deed to the circus now? Barry Allen...


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 19, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Isamot isn't random.....





Cromer said:


> Isamot and Vath ( though Vath was absent) are NOT random.



As someone who never really read GL before, they just seemed like random GL Corps fodder.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 19, 2011)

illmatic said:


> So, a year & half ago Jason Todd was just Jason Todd.



You got to love the compressed timeline .


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 19, 2011)

Batman sure did burn through Robins pretty quickly.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 19, 2011)

Caring about comic book time


----------



## Memos (Oct 19, 2011)

Seriously? You seriously hope...


----------



## Platinum (Oct 19, 2011)

Justice League was good, Flash was awesome in it. 

Nightwing was solid.

Red Hood was alright I guess.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 19, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Final comic was Nightwing, and now I'm confused. Didn't Dick* buy* Haly's way back during Dixon's run? Or was it Bruce Jones? Tomasi? I don't remember, but I do know Dick owns Haly's circus.
> 
> 
> So why is Haly giving Dick the deed to the circus now? Barry Allen...



because no one remembers that but you and no one cares either


----------



## Penance (Oct 19, 2011)

^lol that's the reboot part of the Nu52...


----------



## Nightblade (Oct 19, 2011)

enjoyed JLA 2 more than I thought I would. 
Barry was awesome but I was happy to see that Superman still got the best of him in the end. the character stuff was great. Hal and Barry were actually fun to read. and Superman was a BEEEAAASSTT! 

WW 2 was greaaat. Chang's art is even better than 1, man is at the top of his game right now. and Strife/Eris as a giant was pretty neat. Gods being gigantic in size, or can become gigantic in size when they want, makes them look all the more intimidating and imposing. WW also showing skills against someone who looks like Artemis but isn't Artemis? 
I'm glad Hermes didn't die.

great comic week so far.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 19, 2011)

The Flash-wanker in me thinks that Supes got him only because Barry was screwing around too much.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 19, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> The Flash-wanker in me thinks that Supes got him only because Barry was screwing around too much.



That's what it seemed like to me as well.

He was basically dancing around him not taking him seriously at all.


----------



## Penance (Oct 19, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> The Flash-wanker in me thinks that Supes got him only because Barry was screwing around too much.





Platinum said:


> That's what it seemed like to me as well.
> 
> He was basically dancing around him not taking him seriously at all.



I'm inclined to agree...


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 19, 2011)

Nightblade said:


> enjoyed JLA 2 more than I thought I would.
> Barry was awesome but I was happy to see that Superman still got the best of him in the end. the character stuff was great. Hal and Barry were actually fun to read. and Superman was a BEEEAAASSTT!
> 
> WW 2 was greaaat. Chang's art is even better than 1, man is at the top of his game right now. and Strife/Eris as a giant was pretty neat. Gods being gigantic in size, or can become gigantic in size when they want, makes them look all the more intimidating and imposing. WW also showing skills against someone who looks like Artemis but isn't Artemis?
> ...



I dont know if it was their intention or not but if they've basically renamed artemis with a name that isn't the same as a god, I like that. 

JL, WW, and Batman were all good. generally a great week, even more so because i also read uncanny x-force today.

playing around or not I think Flash came off pretty good, considering he was the only one who could match superman


----------



## Nightblade (Oct 19, 2011)

mte. he was just fucking around with Superman. 

yeah, now that I think about it, renaming Artemis is a good idea to avoid confusion especially to new fans. that's not going to fly with a lot of the older WW crowd though.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 19, 2011)




----------



## Penance (Oct 19, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I dont know if it was their intention or not but if they've basically renamed artemis with a name that isn't the same as a god, I like that.



Nah, Strife/Discord is a Greek Goddess in her own right...


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 20, 2011)

that is totally unrelated to what I was saying...

and ghstwrld no one likes a party pooper


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 20, 2011)

Oh yeah, has anyone mentioned the Shazam backup they're going to do in Justice League? Only real details are that it's by Johns and Gary Frank. Not my first artist choice for drawing kids or people who smile often but oh well.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 20, 2011)

The Flash/Superman thing was executed far better than I've ever seen it done. Makes it clear that Flash is faster than Supes, but that it doesn't really matter anyway, since a pissed off Superman > Anybody on Earth.


----------



## Glued (Oct 20, 2011)

Poor Vic, however it does bring up a good question.

In a world of Meta humans, would people care about ordinary human athletes?


----------



## Penance (Oct 20, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Poor Vic, however it does bring up a good question.
> 
> In a world of Meta humans, would people care about ordinary human athletes?



Purists, for one...


----------



## Taleran (Oct 20, 2011)

Wonder Woman destroyed the week, Batman was way to much words, Red Hood was pretty good in that 90s/Exploitation kinda way, Justice League was serviceable and very vanilla.


----------



## Gallant (Oct 20, 2011)

Justice League was the best this week for me. The character interactions were great and we are going to get Wondy next week which should be interesting to see.

Batman was good.
Nightwing was good too.
Red Hood was blah. The weakest link for me this week.
GLC was solid stuff. Isamot has to be in all kinds of pain right now.
I really enjoyed Supergirl. I really want to see what happens next.
Birds of Prey was alright. Still introducing characters as they investigate. 

Pretty good week overall.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Oct 20, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Poor Vic, however it does bring up a good question.
> 
> In a world of Meta humans, would people care about ordinary human athletes?



Because there are very few metas and they're likely banned from professional sports?

Or to put it another way just because there are people smarter than you doesn't entail that you wish to stop thinking.


----------



## Nicodemus (Oct 20, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Because there are very few metas and they're likely banned from professional sports?
> 
> Or to put it another way just because there are people smarter than you doesn't entail that you wish to stop thinking.



Yeah but if there's a choice between watching a baseball game and seeing Superman throw a villain into orbit I'm going to be more inclined to watch the metas battle it out. With the tech level they've got their cameras can probably capture those battles pretty well, and they're a hell of a lot more interesting than professional sports.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Oct 20, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> Yeah but if there's a choice between watching a baseball game and seeing Superman throw a villain into orbit I'm going to be more inclined to watch the metas battle it out. With the tech level they've got their cameras can probably capture those battles pretty well, and they're a hell of a lot more interesting than professional sports.



If there's a choice between watching paint dry or watching a basketball game then pass me the brush.

Personal taste dude. If it was just fighting everyone would watch boxing. If it was current events more people would watch the news and demand better news.

For us it's amazing, for them it's mundane. People in Matropolis and Gotham are probably pretty jaded by now.

Well, before the reboot anyway : /


----------



## illmatic (Oct 20, 2011)

_ previewed AQUAMAN #2, alongside Geoff Boucher’s celebration of the character’s birthday._

*EDIT*: Bigger picture


----------



## Platinum (Oct 20, 2011)

Aquaman forever getting no respect .

But damn I can't wait to read that issue. Looking forward to it the most of the next batch.


----------



## Devil Kings (Oct 20, 2011)

Superman was so fucking badass in JL. The fanboy in me was so happy when when he was choking Batman. And he's lines, even idiotic at times were so


----------



## Platinum (Oct 21, 2011)

Super Girl was very enjoyable.


----------



## Penance (Oct 21, 2011)

Aquaman, U so Cwayzee...


----------



## Platinum (Oct 21, 2011)

Also don't get the one cop chewing out the deputy for bringing aquaman and mera. I mean you would think in a situation like that they would be the top two people on your call list.

But haters gonna hate I guess.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 21, 2011)

I don't understand how Aquaman is supposed to take place in the same Universe as the rest of the books, therefore it completely takes me out of it and I can't enjoy it.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 21, 2011)

Platinum said:


> Aquaman forever getting no respect .
> 
> But damn I can't wait to read that issue. Looking forward to it the most of the next batch.



It's getting old already. We get it, Johns, you want us to know Aquaman is cool and awesome and that haters are stupid. Get over it.


----------



## Nightblade (Oct 21, 2011)

suddenly dreading Aquaman's appearance in JLA. 

Hal: do you want me to make you an aquarium with my ring?
Arthur: ...
Hal: I can do it, you know. Green Lantern's got you covered.


----------



## hehey (Oct 21, 2011)

oh man, i just read the first issue of All-Star Western and that shit was fucking amazing, top 5 of new 52 imo.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> It's getting old already. We get it, Johns, you want us to know Aquaman is cool and awesome and that haters are stupid. Get over it.



He's not very subtle, but poor aquaman not really getting  treated right either on land or in the sea, for different reasons, i dunno it kind of makes him endearing. You just feel bad for him. 

Also Gab I've got an art question for you, so check your PMs.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 21, 2011)

That's such a transparent audience-projection vehicle, though.  

Why not actually make him interesting and worthy?

And yeah, all of the lame jokes are already way past annoying.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 21, 2011)

a little transparent sure dunno about projection but whatever. What do you suggest to make him interesting?


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 21, 2011)

I'm not sure, but I do know eating fish sticks certainly isn't going to do it.

I remember liking the stuff in the Justice League cartoon.


----------



## Glued (Oct 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> a little transparent sure dunno about projection but whatever. What do you suggest to make him interesting?



Have him fight Poseidon, Starro the Conqueror or Cthulhu.
Have him choke an oil tycoon by shoving crude down his mouth.
Have him use The Clear, the same way Animal Man used the Red and Swamp Thing uses the Green. 
Order an army of Great White Sharks to butcher monsters.
Wreck a whaling vessel.
Punch a hole in a submarine.
Give people seizures by using telepathy on the basal ganglia
Slay a dragon.

Though I do find it endearing that he's saving a bunch of people that think he's useless. I like how Geoff Johns portrays his dad, who could have been a captain reduced to a Lighthouse Keeper. Heavy handed symbolism, but Aquaman doing an important service and getting little credit is pretty noble.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 21, 2011)

How about getting the character called Aquaman wet in the first issue.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 21, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Have him fight Poseidon, Starro the Conqueror or Cthulhu.
> Have him choke an oil tycoon by shoving crude down his mouth.
> Have him use The Clear, the same way Animal Man used the Red and Swamp Thing uses the Green.
> Order an army of Great White Sharks to butcher monsters.
> ...



'feats' dont really make the character interesting. 

I meant more personality wise, or general modus operandi or whatever


----------



## Blinky (Oct 21, 2011)

Kinda wish he still had the beard and hook. Although I really enjoyed the first issue I can see how constantly bringing up all the misconceptions people have about him can get really annoying.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 21, 2011)

My problem with the book is simple.

It is like the people of the Marvel universe making fun of Galactus because he wears a ridiculous purple costume. It doesn't happen because Galactus is a real thing that is huge and eats planets. Aquaman is a real hero of the DCU they only know him in two things. 1) He does fantastic things, 2) He helps and saves people.

This comic makes it seems like the Superfriends TV show and Family Guy are both on TV constantly in the DCU, some of the characters in that issue would not exist in the DCU.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> He's not very subtle, but poor aquaman not really getting  treated right either on land or in the sea, for different reasons, i dunno it kind of makes him endearing. You just feel bad for him.
> 
> Also Gab I've got an art question for you, so check your PMs.



I don't like having the author behind me telling me how sorry I should feel for his character. One issue full of jokes I can understand. Two is overkill.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 21, 2011)

I dont want it to be at the level of issue 1 every issue either, but I don't mind a little bit of it.


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Oct 21, 2011)

So how many of these new titles have been good so far? I've only just begun picking up American comics, and I'm hesitant to try out this relaunch unless the collection of all #1's is worth it so that I can pick out which ones to follow.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 21, 2011)

Phantom Roxas said:


> So how many of these new titles have been good so far? I've only just begun picking up American comics, and I'm hesitant to try out this relaunch unless the collection of all #1's is worth it so that I can pick out which ones to follow.



Most of the relaunch have been solid...though Hawk and Dove, Detective Comics, The Dark knights and few others have been kinda bad.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 21, 2011)

Implying people don't make fun of Aquaman irl.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 21, 2011)

Phantom Roxas said:


> So how many of these new titles have been good so far? I've only just begun picking up American comics, and I'm hesitant to try out this relaunch unless the collection of all #1's is worth it so that I can pick out which ones to follow.



I'd say around 12 are really good. There's a lot that are just 'solid' too, worth reading if you're already interested. And I'd say there's like 8 that just flat out suck.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 21, 2011)

Phantom Roxas said:


> So how many of these new titles have been good so far? I've only just begun picking up American comics, and I'm hesitant to try out this relaunch unless the collection of all #1's is worth it so that I can pick out which ones to follow.



If you've only just started, then I strongly recommend starting with the Flash and Action Comics. Batwoman has the prettiest art anywhere, and Batman isn't too confusing, though you may want to read some of the excellent stories that occupy the background of the current Batman status quo. If you really want to. 


Also, I think everybody here (well, except the natural bellyachers ) will recommend Animal Man. Personally I feel Blue Beetle is the bee's knees, and my current set is from My Greatest Adventure.



Emperor Joker said:


> Most of the relaunch have been  solid...though Hawk and Dove, *Detective Comics*, The Dark knights and few  others have been kinda bad.



A large number of people liked it more than Batman, so I dunno, it may be more to his taste?


----------



## Gallant (Oct 21, 2011)

If the jokes at Aquaman's expense can be kept to a minimum going forward I won't mind too much. The situation where the deputy is getting yelled at for bringing Aquaman and Mera reminds me of Booster Gold getting in trouble because Batman was with him on the mission.



Nightblade said:


> suddenly dreading Aquaman's appearance in JLA.
> 
> Hal: do you want me to make you an aquarium with my ring?
> Arthur: ...
> Hal: I can do it, you know. Green Lantern's got you covered.



I can see that happening.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 21, 2011)

Cromer said:


> A large number of people liked it more than Batman, so I dunno, it may be more to his taste?



I don't think it's the worst book for a new reader, though I still can't get over the silly monologue Daniels wrote.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I don't think it's the worst book for a new reader, though I still can't get over the silly monologue Daniels wrote.



Y'see, that's the thing. A lot of stuff I thought was awesome when I was starting out in comics now feel like fail (well, except for ULTRAVIOLENCE! ), and I imagine it's the same for a lot of people. My kid sis thought 'Tec was better than Batman, and she loved Hawk and Dove (though I did as well), and she just started American comics with nu52.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 21, 2011)

Cromer said:


> If you've only just started, then I strongly recommend starting with the Flash and Action Comics. Batwoman has the prettiest art anywhere, and Batman isn't too confusing, though you may want to read some of the excellent stories that occupy the background of the current Batman status quo. If you really want to.
> 
> 
> Also, I think everybody here (well, except the natural bellyachers ) will recommend Animal Man. Personally I feel Blue Beetle is the bee's knees, and my current set is from My Greatest Adventure.
> ...



It could possibly be, however to me it's really mediocre, and it's overuse of gore as a shock factor is annoying.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 21, 2011)

Yeah i'm not a big fan of the shock factor gore either.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 21, 2011)

I liked the Batman stuff tbh.

Stay away from JLI though, so weak.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 22, 2011)

Cromer said:


> A large number of people liked it more than Batman, so I dunno, it may be more to his taste?



Oh seriously ? To me Detective Comics was probably the most unintentionally hilarious book of the relaunch.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 22, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Oh seriously ? To me Detective Comics was probably the most unintentionally hilarious book of the relaunch.



definitely.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 22, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Oh seriously ? To me Detective Comics was probably the most unintentionally hilarious book of the relaunch.



But its gore is so edgy.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 22, 2011)

You can't have a mature and sophisticated story without gore after all.


----------



## Penance (Oct 23, 2011)

KizaruTachio said:


> Implying people don't make fun of Aquaman irl.





Platinum said:


> You can't have a mature and sophisticated story without gore after all.



the 80's ruined us,


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 23, 2011)

Platinum said:


> You can't have a mature and sophisticated story without gore after all.



And sex 

Your set reminds me how awesome Arkham City is.


----------



## Slice (Oct 24, 2011)

Slowly (veeery slowly) catching up with the #2 issues.

I love how the GL/Flash dynamic is used in Justice League.

Supergirl was solid but still depends too much on the "big guns" appearing, the book could have done without Supes and / or Luthor appearing so early - but i guess thats just personal taste.

Wonder Woman was also great - this is exactly the take on the mythology i like.


----------



## mali (Oct 24, 2011)

JlI is a pretty crap

Red lanterns, demon knights, animal man and ressurection man are all pretty good.

And the joker taking getting a new face in detective comics just made me lol


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 24, 2011)

Slice said:


> Supergirl was solid but still depends too much on the "big guns" appearing, the book could have done without Supes and / or Luthor appearing so early - but i guess thats just personal taste.



well she needed a way to find out krypton was gone and it was years later.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 24, 2011)

I didn't know Batman & Catwoman are now rough-Sex buddies


----------



## Cromer (Oct 24, 2011)

Haven't they been sex-mates since Hush? And I know this is a reboot and all, but the Batverse is mostly untouched, no?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 24, 2011)

I think they only touched little things. Like how Selina doesn't know who Batman is, but I was pretty sure that in Hush he revealed that to her.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 24, 2011)

All the legal bat boys are having sex.

Except Tim.

Cause that would cause another Crisis.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 24, 2011)

Is Tim legal? I could have sworn he was still under 18.

But yea, dude should have tapped Steph when he had the chance.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 24, 2011)

I don't think he's legal.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 25, 2011)

If Jason is barely legal, no way Tim qualifies. Except...aren't the laws in the U.S.A. said to provide exceptions for two underagers getting it on? In which case, DO IT, TIM!


----------



## Speedy Jag. (Oct 25, 2011)

Just reading through a bit of She-Hulk series on my computer using Comical.

Anyone have good reviews of the comics?


----------



## Slice (Oct 25, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Is Tim legal? I could have sworn he was still under 18.
> 
> But yea, dude should have tapped Steph when he had the chance.



If they both are around 15 to 18 where is the problem?


----------



## Glued (Oct 25, 2011)

Slice said:


> If they both are around 15 to 18 where is the problem?



In America, if your under 18, that is called jailbait.

Some states do allow 16 though.

15 is out of the question.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 25, 2011)

Isn't Tim 17?


----------



## Speedy Jag. (Oct 25, 2011)

I'm new to reading up on comics, so any help and advice would be appreciated.


----------



## Glued (Oct 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Isn't Tim 17?



What State does he live in?


----------



## Blinky (Oct 25, 2011)

Tempted to mention that these people aren't real.


----------



## Glued (Oct 25, 2011)

speedyg said:


> I'm new to reading up on comics, so any help and advice would be appreciated.



Hulk: Future Imperfect, best Hulk reading.
Planet Hulk.
Hulk 611: Hulk comes face to face with his son in a climactic battle.

All Star Superman by Grant Morrison, out of continuity
Red Son Superman, also out of continuity.

Kingdom Come.

JMS reboot of Thor

Final Crisis
52

Old Man Logan, out of continuity.
Kraven's Last Hunt.

Grant Morrison's run on JLA

however both Final Crisis and 52 were retconned out of existence. Still good stories though.

PS: Avoid anything written by Jeph Loeb or anything concerning the Red Hulk.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 25, 2011)

I actually didn't dislike The Long Halloween. Yeah the mystery was pretty much bollocks but I was new to Batman comics when  read it so I enjoyed how it had a lot of the rogues in it. And I like the art, except for how the Joker has fuckloads of teeth.


----------



## Slice (Oct 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> In America, if your under 18, that is called jailbait.
> 
> Some states do allow 16 though.
> 
> 15 is out of the question.



Europe > America 



Blinky said:


> Tempted to mention that these people aren't real.



It's better than endless manga character pairing wars. At least this is something that could happen. (Teenagers getting it on - not dressing up as superheroes.)

Also you learn something about legal stuff in other countries.





speedyg said:


> I'm new to reading up on comics, so any help and advice would be appreciated.



Perfect moment - decide which character(s) you want to read about and start with the new #1 issues of DC. They are only a few weeks old.


----------



## Speedy Jag. (Oct 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Hulk: Future Imperfect, best Hulk reading.
> Planet Hulk.
> Hulk 611: Hulk comes face to face with his son in a climactic battle.
> 
> ...



Do you mean Superman final crisis?

I'm probably not going to be reading the older ones based in the 50s/60/70s much but probably the odd Marvel/DC that catches my eye thats more up to date and has a good storyline involving no rape ( Yup, I read that thread lol )

@Slice
Maybe Superman/Spiderman ones will suit me more.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 25, 2011)

> involving no rape


----------



## Devil Kings (Oct 25, 2011)

Blinky said:


> I actually didn't dislike The Long Halloween. Yeah the mystery was pretty much bollocks but I was new to Batman comics when  read it so I enjoyed how it had a lot of the rogues in it. And I like the art, except for how the Joker has fuckloads of teeth.



You're avatar's fucking funny man. Batman's face was priceless after Alfred's little speech.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 25, 2011)

> What State does he live in?



Gotham 



Blinky said:


> Tempted to mention that these people aren't real.



Get out of here with your earth logic


----------



## Glued (Oct 25, 2011)

speedyg said:


> Do you mean Superman final crisis?
> 
> I'm probably not going to be reading the older ones based in the 50s/60/70s much but probably the odd Marvel/DC that catches my eye thats more up to date and has a good storyline involving no rape ( Yup, I read that thread lol )
> 
> ...



Final Crisis was an event in the DC universe.

Also I recommend Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 25, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> You're avatar's fucking funny man. Batman's face was priceless after Alfred's little speech.



No one busts balls quite like Alfred.



gabzilla said:


> Get out of here with your earth logic



Which Earth ? There's 52 of them.



Ben Grimm said:


> Final Crisis was an event in the DC universe.
> 
> Also I recommend Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing.



And the almost too obvious to mention Watchmen.


----------



## Glued (Oct 25, 2011)

Oh wait you said no rape, stay away from Hulk: Future Imperfect.

After breaking the Hulk's neck and leaving him paralyzed. The Maestro ordered one of his female concubines to molest the Hulk. This concubine looked a lot like Betty Ross.

Hulk even scream, "Stop!"

Oh yeah, Bruce would later have a mental breakdown in Doc Samson's office because of this rape.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 25, 2011)

Blinky said:


> so I enjoyed how it had a lot of the rogues in it.



this is how he gets people


----------



## Speedy Jag. (Oct 25, 2011)

Please tell me you got the joke? 

Same goes for you Ben Grimm.

It's not even that subtle.


----------



## Glued (Oct 25, 2011)

Blinky said:


> No one busts balls quite like Alfred.



[YOUTUBE]ep9JA7X0e0o[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Glued (Oct 25, 2011)

speedyg said:


> Please tell me you got the joke?
> 
> Same goes for you Ben Grimm.
> 
> It's not even that subtle.



Explain the joke.


----------



## Blinky (Oct 25, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> this is how he gets people



Is he some sort of sexual predator ?


----------



## Speedy Jag. (Oct 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Explain the joke.



A poster said he was quitting reading Comics cos of a crap storyline he saw based on rape, forgetting its used in a fair few plot-lines in some comics anyway.

I reveal any more and this joke will lose it's salt.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 25, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Which Earth ? There's 52 of them.



The one where we don't seriously discuss the sex lives of fictional characters. I think that was 47?


----------



## illmatic (Oct 25, 2011)

> Over the past few days, we’ve been linking to all of the exclusive previews of the second issues from DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 that are going on sale tomorrow.
> 
> Below, take a look at all the previews that ran (sorted alphabetically and separated by cover), compiled here in one easy location for your convenience.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 25, 2011)

God damn Manapul is killing it on Flash.


----------



## Memos (Oct 25, 2011)

speedyg said:


> A poster said he was quitting reading Comics cos of a crap storyline he saw based on rape, forgetting its used in a fair few plot-lines in some comics anyway.
> 
> I reveal any more and this joke will lose it's salt.


You should tell them about some Alan Moore comics 
Flash is looking so good.

Can't wait for Flash, GL and Aquaman.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 25, 2011)

Flash is so pretty.

TT is horrible and dnw Tim/Cassie romance.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 25, 2011)

Really wasting no time setting them up, christ. You'd think Tim tried to pick Cass up in a bar.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 25, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Really wasting no time setting them up, christ. You'd think Tim tried to pick Cass up in a bar.



Really? I mean yea there are undertones, but nothing seems really that forced. The most overt thing I noticed was Tim's reaction to being labelled a "good guy". 

But yea, I dunno, I could care less. I like that semi awkward Tim is back, and while the art isn't great, its not OMGWTFTERRIBLE.

Basically, a teen titans comic thats okay is all I expect at this point. Still hoping for Tim to get a solo book down the line though.


----------



## Memos (Oct 25, 2011)

I was just wondering, what is Superboy Prime's situation in the DCnU? Does he even exist at all right now?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 25, 2011)

Memos said:


> I was just wondering, what is Superboy Prime's situation in the DCnU? Does he even exist at all right now?



Unless Barry's timeline merging trip affected The Source Wall, he should still be stuck in there.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 25, 2011)

I like to assume he's back to trolling the DC message boards from his basement.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 25, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Really? I mean yea there are undertones, but nothing seems really that forced. The most overt thing I noticed was Tim's reaction to being labelled a "good guy".



thats what im talking about. he just met a girl 2 hours ago and hes sad for being in the friend zone.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 25, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> thats what im talking about. he just met a girl 2 hours ago and hes sad for being in the friend zone.



I mean, she's hot, and he's a 17 year old nice guy nerd. Its not totally out of the ballpark.

Although without retconning Tim's numerous past relationships it does seem a bit odd.


----------



## Glued (Oct 25, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Unless Barry's timeline merging trip affected The Source Wall, he should still be stuck in there.



DC comics needs to seriously leave Prime alone. Just give him Laurie and walk away from the whole thing. Pretend SBP never happened.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> DC comics needs to seriously leave Prime alone. Just give him Laurie and walk away from the whole thing. Pretend SBP never happened.



Then she glances back to the reader and you see her eyes flash red so you'll know it's not over yet.

DC writers have a serious cliffhanger boner for him.


----------



## Memos (Oct 25, 2011)

I really hope he comes back. I get that he's a spaz, and that he'll always bitch and moan, but I just can't stop laughing whenever he's there. He's one of the most entertaining villians there is for me.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 25, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I mean, she's hot, and he's a 17 year old nice guy nerd. Its not totally out of the ballpark.
> 
> Although without retconning Tim's numerous past relationships it does seem a bit odd.



This is _Tim Drake_. I don't remember a time where he was sad he was in the friend zone.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 25, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I mean, she's hot, and he's a 17 year old nice guy nerd. Its not totally out of the ballpark.
> 
> Although without retconning Tim's numerous past relationships it does seem a bit odd.



i dont care, 2 hours in and she thinks you're nice enough to comment on it, you're on the right track

I hope she cons him.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> This is _Tim Drake_. I don't remember a time where he was sad he was in the friend zone.



True, although honestly the only relationship of Tim's I ever liked was with Steph, and she had to literally make out rape him until he stopped bitching about it.

All the other ones it honestly seemed like he only had a girlfriend to oblige said girlfriend.



Petes12 said:


> i dont care, 2 hours in and she thinks you're nice enough to comment on it, you're on the right track
> 
> I hope she cons him.



Ha me too.

I dunno, I agree it was odd, but its not a huge con for me, just a minor one.

But yea, still waiting on the Tim solo book. Or better yet, the Tim/Steph/Cass book we've been throwing around, by BQM and Marcus To 

Speaking of which....Gabz, where's my adorable Tim/Steph/Cass pic


----------



## Blinky (Oct 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The one where we don't seriously discuss the sex lives of fictional characters. I think that was 47?



Is that the one where everyone has a moustache ?



Whip Whirlwind said:


> God damn Manapul is killing it on Flash.



It's just so.... pretty.



Memos said:


> I really hope he comes back. I get that he's a spaz, and that he'll always bitch and moan, but I just can't stop laughing whenever he's there. He's one of the most entertaining villians there is for me.



For once in your life Memos try not to be terrible.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> True, although honestly the only relationship of Tim's I ever liked was with Steph, and she had to literally make out rape him until he stopped bitching about it.
> 
> All the other ones it honestly seemed like he only had a girlfriend to oblige said girlfriend.



Yeah, but that was dorky and adorable Tim. I don't think I could stomach this Tim with Steph.

But as I said before, even with Steph, Tim had the sex drive of a rock. I can't see imagine him noticing there are boobs to stare at. Or that he would be depressed about being in the friend zone when he has a condo in the place. And he bought it.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Ha me too.
> 
> I dunno, I agree it was odd, but its not a huge con for me, just a minor one.
> 
> ...



Art block 



Blinky said:


> Is that the one where everyone has a moustache ?



That was #17.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> But as I said before, even with Steph, Tim had the sex drive of a rock. I can't see imagine him noticing there are boobs to stare at. Or that he would be depressed about being in the friend zone when he has a condo in the place. And he bought it.



He was just a good little kid. And written by Chuck Dixon who liked to do 'very special episode' issues pretty much every month.


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> He was just a good little kid. And written by Chuck Dixon who liked to do 'very special episode' issues pretty much every month.



Give me that Tim over the current one any day.

Dixon was not the only one that wrote Tim as clueless male that is uncomfortable with boobs in his face. He may have commented on the hotness of female characters, but he never took it seriously.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 26, 2011)

I dunno what you really expect them to do with Robin the minor and girls, besides show dating and other tame stuff, but ok!


----------



## Parallax (Oct 26, 2011)

yeah what the hell?


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I dunno what you really expect them to do with Robin the minor and girls, besides show dating and other tame stuff, but ok!



...when did I say I expect Tim to do more than that? I said Tim is usually not interested in girls and doesn't get depressed because one is not throwing herself at him. It's usually the _opposite_.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 26, 2011)

Youre kind of holding the writing against him.

also


----------



## Blinky (Oct 26, 2011)

Now I can sate my Dick Grayson mancrush in videya form!


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 26, 2011)

Anyone else get the feeling Teen Titans could be a pretty good book if you could just go over it and edit a bunch of stuff?


----------



## Blinky (Oct 26, 2011)

And change the artist. I hate the art in it.


----------



## Glued (Oct 26, 2011)

Not much on Aquaman this week. He just came in contact with The Trench. Basically they just want to eat people and see us as food.


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 26, 2011)

Teen Titans is pretty good. My second favorite this week actually (Flash being first). I don't know what you guys are talking about


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Oct 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Not much on Aquaman this week. He just came in contact with The Trench. Basically they just want to eat people and see us as food.



Is this Aquawoman a new character for the reboot? I'm new to DC so I tried looking her up but I didn't see any Mera.

Edit: Nevermind, searching aquawoman found a load of aquagirls but searching aquawoman mera found her.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 26, 2011)

She doesn't actually have a code name, she's just called Mera generally.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 26, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Yeah, but that was dorky and adorable Tim. I don't think I could stomach this Tim with Steph.
> 
> But as I said before, even with Steph, Tim had the sex drive of a rock. I can't see imagine him noticing there are boobs to stare at. Or that he would be depressed about being in the friend zone when he has a condo in the place. And he bought it.



Yea, Dixon made me the huge Tim fan I am today, and it sucks that his character has been on a downward spiral ever since. The only other writer who's come close to that I think was Yost.

I loved that Tim was somewhat awkward around girls because it set him apart from Dick "Look at your man, now look at me" Grayson. 



Petes12 said:


> Anyone else get the feeling Teen Titans could be a pretty good book if you could just go over it and edit a bunch of stuff?



Yup. Its not a terrible book, just a bunch of nitpicks that keep it from being a good book. And yea the art is definitely a downside.

Oh and Flash rocked, as expected. I love how Manapul took Jim Lee's lineporn costume and acutally made it awesome.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 26, 2011)

Aquaman and Flash continue to be pretty good...Teen Titans has potential, but i'm not sure of it yet...i'll give it another issue before I decide to drop it or not.

Dark Knight continues to be the exact same dreadful shitstain the first issue was, and it cements my opinion that this book needs to fucking die


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 26, 2011)

Flash was definitely my favorite. From the DCU this week, that is.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 26, 2011)

I've still not read a single Flash issue... My resistance is being eroded...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 26, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I've still not read a single Flash issue... My resistance is being eroded...



Francis Manapul makes me never want anyone else ever to draw the Flash. Ever.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 26, 2011)

Yeah. I would've been ok with a different artist before the relaunch, but issue 1 especially looked so good and so perfect for Flash.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Yeah. I would've been ok with a different artist before the relaunch, but issue 1 especially looked so good and so perfect for Flash.



Yea, I was actually stunned by the level of improvement. Its like he picked up his pre52 flash work and was like, "You know what? I"m gonna make this guy's art look mediocre."


----------



## hehey (Oct 26, 2011)

I've dropped The Flash and The Dark Knight.... Teen Titans was great.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, I was actually stunned by the level of improvement. Its like he picked up his pre52 flash work and was like, "You know what? I"m gonna make this guy's art look mediocre."



There's a lot of that going around. You know Philip Tan is actually using watercolors now for hawkman? Guess that's a big part of the improvement there. Not that he's on Manapul's level but his Batman and Robin looked bad whereas Hawkman looks pretty nice.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 26, 2011)

hehey said:


> *I've dropped The Flash* and The Dark Knight.... Teen Titans was great.



Why do you dislike awesome things? 



Petes12 said:


> There's a lot of that going around. You know Philip Tan is actually using watercolors now for hawkman? Guess that's a big part of the improvement there. Not that he's on Manapul's level but his Batman and Robin looked bad whereas Hawkman looks pretty nice.



Yea I noticed, definitely a step up for him. Used to hate his art, now its not bad. Honestly all Hawkman needs is more actual fighting.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 26, 2011)

Its not quite as good as the Wednesday Comics thing but it is getting close. Makes everything else that comes out this week from DC look worse.


----------



## Penance (Oct 26, 2011)

Huh...so Girl Smokey turned out to be Solstice,


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Youre kind of holding the writing against him.
> 
> also


----------



## Platinum (Oct 27, 2011)

Aquaman was good again, The Flash was great .


----------



## Taleran (Oct 27, 2011)

> One of the coolest things for me about The New 52 was that it gave us the ability to work very far in advance. We knew exactly what we wanted to do in terms of connecting FLASHPOINT to our new universe. Geoff Johns had an amazing backstory for the mysterious woman who appears at the end of FLASHPOINT #5. We had a plan for where we thought she’d go next, but since we had enough time to really think, Jim Lee, Geoff and I figured out that it was possible to expand this character’s next appearance into ALL of the #1 issues – a daunting task to be sure, but a one-time opportunity to do something like this and really drive home how important this character is. To keep track of this plan, we created the wall in Liz’s office and put up each page as it was completed.
> 
> You’ll soon see the next step in this character’s evolution in the pages of JUSTICE LEAGUE, and in the months to come you will see more events ripple across titles as we continue to weave the DC Universe together and tell even more amazing stories.



That is disappointing.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 27, 2011)

Taleran said:


> That is incredibly unsurprising.



FTFY.

Do you really expect them to say, "Well, we included her as a backdoor, in case this shit went south, but now that its going well, we can't just leave her there because then it would look like we just included her as a backdoor, in case this shit went south."?


----------



## Platinum (Oct 28, 2011)

Oh course she was NEVER a panic switch guys come on .


----------



## illmatic (Oct 28, 2011)

EW exclusive! Get your first look at six pages from the Superman story in the Nov. 2 ''New 52'' issue! (Use your cursor as a magnifier for a closer look.)


----------



## gabzilla (Oct 28, 2011)

Platinum said:


> Oh course she was NEVER a panic switch guys come on .



Of course not


----------



## Glued (Oct 28, 2011)

Crisis of Infinite Earths was so epic.

Flashpoint was so unbelievably dull. The whole DC universe relaunches because Barry Allen wanted his mom back.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 28, 2011)

to be honest I dont really think she was a panic button, which oddly to me makes her presence in flashpoint even more annoying because even when there's a reset coming johns STILL feels a need to seed his future stories


----------



## Taleran (Oct 28, 2011)

Her concept is a case of screwed either way. The bit I don't get is how showing up in every single book is supposed to make her a character.

The second bit that I left out is actually what worries me more.



> You’ll soon see the next step in this character’s evolution in the pages of JUSTICE LEAGUE, and in the months to come you will see more events ripple across titles as we continue to weave the DC Universe together and tell even more amazing stories.



Like I get how it works at Marvel, between re-cap pages and clear banners for their crossovers it works out, DC however will just be throwing people blind into books that may or may not being tying together and that is weird.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 28, 2011)

So, basically, they still don't get it.


----------



## Glued (Oct 28, 2011)

They should just pretend that Female Waldo doesn't exist or simply have a picture of female Waldo in every comic from now on (forever) just so the fans get to play a game after they're done reading.


----------



## Mael (Oct 28, 2011)

I know I've been away for a while, but when I keep reading Justice League spoilers I can't help but get confus every single time.

Reboot means recharge, yes, but sometimes foresight goes a long way herp derp.

Oh and I played Arkham City.  It's pretty damn fun even if it's not my 100% cup of tea.  I like the Catwoman/Batman dynamics too and Mr. Freeze will always be my favorite villain.


----------



## Penance (Oct 29, 2011)

I, Vampire...being BOSS, again...Along with Flash and Superman.  

JLD, Hawkman, Aquaman, and-amazingly-Teen Titans were pretty good, too...


----------



## Devil Kings (Oct 29, 2011)

illmatic said:


> EW exclusive! Get your first look at six pages from the Superman story in the Nov. 2 ''New 52'' issue! (Use your cursor as a magnifier for a closer look.)



I BOW to Rags artwork from that preview. When he first staeted drawing the new AC, i thought he wasn't the right artist for the job, but with that preview the art looks sick.

Krpto looks fucking bad ass, he doesn't look like a pet, but like a giant bad-ass that will rip you're throat in a second notice.

All in all, i can wait for AC#3.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 29, 2011)

You can wait?  As for the rest of us, we HAVE to wait.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 29, 2011)

gene ha did krypton stuff i think


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Oct 29, 2011)

DC Comics has more reboots and alternate timelines than you'll ever find on a season of Doctor Who.

I'm not fussing about the whole reboot thing I just would like to know which timeline I'm investing my money into is all... Is it A,B,C,D, or E.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 29, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> DC Comics has more reboots and alternate timelines than you'll ever find on a season of Doctor Who.
> 
> I'm not fussing about the whole reboot thing I just would like to know which timeline I'm investing my money into is all... Is it A,B,C,D, or E.




Right now, it is THE timeline - no alternates, extra worlds, or whatever. Though I assume there will be a JSA-Earth sooner or later. Afterall, Multiversity is coming.


----------



## mali (Oct 30, 2011)

I, Vampire is pretty dope.

It seems like theirs going to be a DC universe event agian lol judging from the Editors in Cheif words.

Its all to do with that chick from the end of Flashpoint #5, Liz I think.

And the Omni-lantern...... 

But Ganteth getting lobotomized is not cool


----------



## Devil Kings (Oct 30, 2011)

Cromer said:


> You can wait?  As for the rest of us, we HAVE to wait.



Dammit, i meant can't wait, not can.


----------



## Penance (Oct 30, 2011)

Mali said:


> But Ganteth getting lobotomized is not cool



.............


----------



## Glued (Oct 30, 2011)

The Heretic deserved worse. Ganthet has been corrupted by the foul taint of human emotion. He betrayed the Green Light of Will when he chose to oppose the Guardians of the Universe. His opposition to the council would have lead to Chaos. Or have we all forgotten that there was another Guardian who believe in the power of feelings, Krona the Rogue Guardian. Krona had the best of intentions, but his actions lead to the destruction of an entire sector and the Red Rage of Atrocitus. 

Burn Ganthet so that it can be an example to all those who Worship Evil's Might.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 31, 2011)

This is probably the most fair thing I have read about the 52 and while I disagree with the specifics of what book are good It nails why a majority of them fall flat.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 31, 2011)

Well, sure, some books feel kind of 'eh' generic. Nightwing isn't bad on GA's level but it's extremely... standard. I didn't really expect every single one of the new 52 comics to really distinguish itself from the pack, did anyone? It's unbelievable to me some of the unrealistic expectations people have for this stuff. 

Even though I was overall looking forward to it, I wasn't expecting to enjoy as many of the new books as I did. I think there's around 13 legitimately strong books in the relaunch, and you know, that's about 9 more than there used to be coming from DC.

And then there's a lot that are fine, like GLC and nightwing, who's only flaws are that they don't do anything to really stand out and be different from each other.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 31, 2011)

It sounds like you only read the first half where all the negative is and not the bit were he says exactly what you just did....


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 31, 2011)

I read it. And yeah we agree on some stuff, but it's like he thinks the whole thing is a failure because not every god damn book out of 52 books was something really special. hurrr


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 31, 2011)

He makes some good points, but he's a bit too nitpicky at times.

Like I don't think Red Lanterns and Suicide Squad open up with torture scenes just because DC's trying to inject more violence into its line, but maybe because its freaking red lanterns and suicide squad? Over the top violence can be fun, and for these two books its kind of par for the course.

Not saying they're any good, but the over the top violence isn't the problem.

And yea, I feel like he deems it unsuccessful because not every book is Action/Animal Man/Wonder Woman quality.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 31, 2011)

Doesn't the fact that a vast majority of the books are generic and bland mean it is unsuccessful creatively? I mean that sounds more like you guys lowering your standards to the level of the books rather then all the books actually being successful.

Also this is all speculation till a few months forward either way.


----------



## Mael (Oct 31, 2011)

Damn...trying to get my hands on Flash #2 harder than expected.

Manuel!


----------



## Parallax (Oct 31, 2011)

it's not that we're lowering our standards it's just yeah that guy is way too nitpicky.  If you expect everything coming out to be top notch well then big ups to you


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 31, 2011)

The article reads like its broader point is that DC's relaunch doesn't do many of the things it says it wants to do, which is namely to be more accessible and more inclusive; that it's generic in way that appeals to people who already read their stuff.

I agree.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 31, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Doesn't the fact that a vast majority of the books are generic and bland mean it is unsuccessful creatively? I mean that sounds more like you guys lowering your standards to the level of the books rather then all the books actually being successful.
> 
> Also this is all speculation till a few months forward either way.



No, I just didn't expect every book to be 'successful'.

There's a lot of books I would've cut out, for sure, if we were just talking about making the whole line creatively strong. But a lot of those generic superhero stories are whats making up the middle of the pack, while a lot of the more unique stuff is whats bringing up the rear in sales :\


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 31, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Doesn't the fact that a vast majority of the books are generic and bland mean it is unsuccessful creatively? I mean that sounds more like you guys lowering your standards to the level of the books rather then all the books actually being successful.
> 
> Also this is all speculation till a few months forward either way.



I guess I'm okay with a majority of the books being generic/bland because a vast majority of pretty much every creative medium (books, movies, TV, comics) are bland/generic. Doesn't mean I don't like them, just that I don't ever expect the majority to ever be stellar and amazing.


----------



## Mael (Oct 31, 2011)

What the hell is it about the way the Flash is done and me absolutely loving it?

Pacing.  Dialogue.  Presentation.

It seems to actually...flow. pek


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 31, 2011)

Yea, Flash is amazing, and is probably tied with animal man for my favorite book. Although that could just be hype from reading it recently.

So when do you think we can expect to see initial trades? I guess early spring next year?


----------



## Glued (Oct 31, 2011)

OMAC vs The Psi-Fi man



I am so going to enjoy this.


----------



## Penance (Oct 31, 2011)

The Hulk vs the Leader, you say?


----------



## MrChubz (Oct 31, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> OMAC vs The Psi-Fi man
> 
> 
> 
> I am so going to enjoy this.



How did such a random book like OMAC become so amazing?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 31, 2011)

While I concur that alot of the books don't break the mold and are just average, they are however decent and for the most I actually care about what happens in them...which if you had asked me a year ago, I could give maybe three books from DC's non Vertigo line that I could care about



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, Flash is amazing, and is probably tied with animal man for my favorite book. Although that could just be hype from reading it recently.
> 
> So when do you think we can expect to see initial trades? I guess early spring next year?



April or may is my guess


----------



## KizaruTachio (Oct 31, 2011)

IT'S A GREEN LANTERN HALLOWEEN ! :33


----------



## Glued (Oct 31, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> How did such a random book like OMAC become so amazing?



Its awesome because its so weird and random



Penance said:


> The Hulk vs the Leader, you say?



Shhhh, you don't want the Noobs to find out.


----------



## SageMaster (Oct 31, 2011)

Looking forward to OMAC and Action Comics this Wednesday.

Oh KT, I see you browse 4chan too. :33


----------



## Devil Kings (Oct 31, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> How did such a random book like OMAC become so amazing?



What's even more surprising is Didio is writing it.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 1, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> What's even more surprising is Didio is writing it.



I know right? 


The only previous I've had reading Didio was the closing issue for Outsiders, which was an exercise in belly-gazing and nostalgia best left behind.

Nepotism is gonna be good for this book.


----------



## Glued (Nov 1, 2011)

Its like someone decided to combine a bunch of Kirby idea and shove it into a single book.

Moloids, the Hulk, Crusher Creel, OMAC himself.

The Kirbyness, its over 9000!!!


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 1, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> The article reads like its broader point is that DC's relaunch doesn't do many of the things it says it wants to do, which is namely to be more accessible and more inclusive; that it's generic in way that appeals to people who already read their stuff.
> 
> I agree.



Yep. There are a few books that are pretty awesome, but most of them didn't even need the reboot to exist.


----------



## Devil Kings (Nov 1, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I know right?
> 
> 
> The only previous I've had reading Didio was the closing issue for Outsiders, which was an exercise in belly-gazing and nostalgia best left behind.
> ...



I actually rage when o first heard Didio was one of the authors for the reboot. 

Then i read Omac once, then i taught something was wrong, and i read it again. After my second read, a lone tear fell down. That's how good it was.

I may not care much for Didio because of his past blunders, but Omac proves the man is good.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 1, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Its like someone decided to combine a bunch of Kirby idea and shove it into a single book.
> 
> Moloids, the Hulk, Crusher Creel, OMAC himself.
> 
> The Kirbyness, its over 9000!!!


All we need is a Darkseid ripoff and this book will have everything.



Devil Kings said:


> I actually rage when o first heard Didio was one of the authors for the reboot.
> 
> Then i read Omac once, then i taught something was wrong, and i read it again. After my second read, a lone tear fell down. That's how good it was.
> 
> I may not care much for Didio because of his past blunders, but Omac proves the man is good.


Maybe his strength is just shallow wackyness. He is a product of the Silver Age after all.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 1, 2011)

I don't particularly like omac


----------



## Parallax (Nov 1, 2011)

Yeah I don't like it much either but I can see why people would dig it.


----------



## Glued (Nov 1, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> All we need is a Darkseid ripoff and this book will have everything.



DC already has Darkseid.

However Dubbilex who appeared in the very first issue of the book was also a Kirby creation.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 1, 2011)

Okay, smartass, a Thanos ripoff. That that way its only 3rd-hand ripoff and no one would ever know its really a Darkseid ripoff.


----------



## Glued (Nov 1, 2011)

They already have a Third-hand rip-off, his name is Mongul.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 1, 2011)

To me Omac is one of those decent books, but it's one of those books like Savage Hawkman or Deathstroke that doesn't offer enough for me to actually bother buying it.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 1, 2011)

I forgot about Mongul. I would day make Mongul an OMAC villain but I want him to get trashed by Wally West (when he finally shows up) in the best throw-back and character intro ever.

Didn't Mongul have a son? Maybe Mongul Sr. can get trashed by Wally West and Mongul Jr. can be an OMAC villain.



Emperor Joker said:


> To me Omac is one of those decent books, but it's one of those books like Savage Hawkman or Deathstroke that doesn't offer enough for me to actually bother buying it.


Hawkman was the disappointment of the century and Deathstroke didn't so the character justice nor was it quality Deathstroke porn like Identity Crisis.

OMAC was just a random book that had no expectations and turned out to be cool. I can understand if you don't want to buy it regularly but I certainly want to see it last.


----------



## Glued (Nov 1, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> To me Omac is one of those decent books, but it's one of those books like Savage Hawkman or Deathstroke that doesn't offer enough for me to actually bother buying it.



Will you be buying the upcoming fight between OMAC vs Frankenstein?



MrChubz said:


> I forgot about Mongul. I would day make Mongul an OMAC villain but I want him to get trashed by Wally West (when he finally shows up) in the best throw-back and character intro ever.
> 
> Didn't Mongul have a son? Maybe Mongul Sr. can get trashed by Wally West and Mongul Jr. can be an OMAC villain.
> 
> ...


Mongul Sr. is dead, Hal Jordan killed him.

Though it would be awesome to have Mongul fight OMAC.

As of right now though OMAC is about to have a fight with Sargeant Steel, Checkmate, and Maxwell Lord.

Since they're going Kirby. My guess is that pretty son Frankenstein and OMAC will have a class Thing and Hulk rivalry.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 1, 2011)

Since it's a crossover with a book that's on my pull list, yes I will.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 1, 2011)

> Over the past few days, we’ve been linking to all of the exclusive previews of the third issues from DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 that are going on sale tomorrow.
> 
> Below, take a look at all the previews that ran (sorted alphabetically and separated by cover), compiled here in one easy location for your convenience.


----------



## Glued (Nov 1, 2011)

"Dwayne Mcduffie Center for Science and Mathematics."

Mad respect, mad respect.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 1, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Since they're going Kirby. My guess is that pretty son Frankenstein and OMAC will have a class Thing and Hulk rivalry.



Hopefully. The Thing-Hulk rivalry is one of the best rivalries in comics. Mostly because The Hulk usually outclasses The Thing, but because of how awesome Ben is its always fulfilling whenever The Thing gets the better of the Hulk.


----------



## Glued (Nov 1, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Hopefully. The Thing-Hulk rivalry is one of the best rivalries in comics. Mostly because The Hulk usually outclasses The Thing, but because of how awesome Ben is its always fulfilling whenever The Thing gets the better of the Hulk.



Its also admirable how Ben kept on trying and never gave up trying to beat the Hulk. However, since Professor Hulk, Ben has been left completely in the dust.

But it goes deeper than that, Hulk and Ben are both monsters. They often find that they can relate to one another. There is this one book Hulk/Thing Hard Knocks. Ben and Hulk just sitting in a coffee shop, eating doughnuts, talking about some past fights.

Who knows, Frankenstein and OMAC may become buddies. That is if Brother Eye allows it. 

OMAC is three people in one. Kevin Kho, OMAC and Brother Eye. I wonder how that's going to work out.


----------



## Glued (Nov 1, 2011)

I also like OMAC for its light hearted ridiculousness. All these new DC titles are trying to be dark, edgy and serious.

Not OMAC. He's just so bright and colorful.

PS: Mokarri and the Build-A-Friend factory in OMAC 01 were also Kirby creations.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 2, 2011)

My 2-week stuff just came in...Deathstroke was mightily disappointing.


On the plus side, this might be the first time I ever enjoyed Flash


----------



## Devil Kings (Nov 2, 2011)

Can't wait for Action Comic.


----------



## Devil Kings (Nov 2, 2011)

Just read Fire Storm #2, and Gail is part of it. Guess her leaving the title was a lie.


----------



## Penance (Nov 2, 2011)

What'd you think of Firestorm #2?


----------



## Devil Kings (Nov 2, 2011)

Penance said:


> What'd you think of Firestorm #2?



Awesome.

Not as good as #1, but it still has that uniqueness to it, and you know it can and will get better as the story progress.

One the things i like about the issue was how that secret government framed all three kids, made them out to be terrorist.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 2, 2011)

> *    Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E. #3*
> Written by Jeff Lemire
> Art by Alberto Ponticelli
> Cover by J.G. Jones
> ...


----------



## Glued (Nov 2, 2011)

OMAC spoiler 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Brother Eye framed Kevin Kho as a terrorist, he ended up in prison.

OMAC was losing at one point

Brother Eye: OMAC, you are embarrassing me.
OMAC: SHUT UP!!!
Brother Eye: We you didn't have to be rude.

Few words can describe it. OMAC barely speaks, Brother Eye never shuts up and Kevin keeps getting into worse trouble.

Oh yeah, Deadman just saved Barrack Obama in Hawk and Dove.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 3, 2011)

Action comics was pretty cool, but Animal Man was AMAZING.

That art will haunt my nightmares.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 3, 2011)

Yeah Animal Man was in the uncanny valley this week...god I love the art for this.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 3, 2011)

Red lantern was Good

Dat Bleez


----------



## mali (Nov 3, 2011)

Red Lanterns is start to become one of my favorite lines right now, along with Animal Man, Demon Knights, I Vampire and Green Lantern.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 3, 2011)

it's funny how the first thing the book sets out to do is alleviate that "this book will be boring cause there all mindless animals" stigma that fans were complaining about


----------



## Devil Kings (Nov 3, 2011)

Action Comic was 

Morrison made Luthor a bitch, yet he made you love him still. The look on Luthor's face when he start to suck up to Braniac was priceless.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 3, 2011)

I liked Action Comics but man Morales really needs to improve.  His style isn't good/detailed enough to be taking as long as it does and it's just no good when it's rushed.  The Ha pages owned though

Animal Man owned this week holy fuck what a series.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 3, 2011)

Action Comics is taking 1 month just like all the others. I'm not sure what the complaint is there.

I agree with you about Animal Man though. It was certainly the highlight this week. Swamp Thing was pretty sweet too. Overall for me this week it was:

A-Man
Swamp Thing
Action
OMAC.

Quality week across the board.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 3, 2011)

I'm quite happy with Peter Milligan right now. Red Lanterns is a nice deconstruction of the Red Lantern Corps and trying to go beyond a very simple concept. Justice League Dark is also pretty bitchin'.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 3, 2011)

I only read Action & Animal Man this week.

Action annoyed me it seems more like Morrison is writing Gotham City rather than Metropolis. Also the art was less even to the first two issues. It seems like that is the what keeping the books on a monthly schedule causes with these artists.

Animal Man was good but at this point using the new ongoing to place your hero into a long lineage of people coming before him is really really tired. Why can't heroes just be heroes because they want to anymore? Still a really good issue.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 3, 2011)

Taleran said:


> I only read Action & Animal Man this week.
> 
> Action annoyed me it seems more like Morrison is writing Gotham City rather than Metropolis. Also the art was less even to the first two issues. It seems like that is the what keeping the books on a monthly schedule causes with these artists.



I do agree the art was a little less than it could of been, but I like how he's writing Metropolis. To me, the corruption here is not criminal, but corporate. Cops aren't dirty, they're disillusioned. They _are_ trying to get things done, but they acknowledge the reality/realpolitik of the city. I like the idea that Metropolis wasn't a shining beacon before Superman got there; it became one _because_ he went there.

Look at the conversation between Clark and Sergeant Casey, and contrast that with what a Gotham cop would have likely done. With Casey, I don't think he takes any pleasure in what he's doing. To me, most of what he says comes off as trying to warn Clark about what's going to happen to him if he keeps it up. In Gotham, someone like Flass would have just beat the shit out of him and tell him to stop or they are going to push him off the Cobblepot Bridge.



> Animal Man was good but at this point using the new ongoing to place your hero into a long lineage of people coming before him is really really tired. Why can't heroes just be heroes because they want to anymore? Still a really good issue.



With Animal Man, it works. At least, for me. Considering the Red and the Green fulfill similar roles, it makes sense that the Red has its defenders. Hell, it's not like he was the only hero who could access the Red before.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 3, 2011)

thats how he got his powers not how he decided to be a superhero. superman isn't super strong because he decided to be.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 3, 2011)

You know what I mean Petes...


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 3, 2011)

nope not really. the distinction's important, all that was written out was the weird spaceship/yellow aliens origin.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 3, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> nope not really. the distinction's important, all that was written out was the weird spaceship/yellow aliens origin.



Actually that's still intact apparently as the yellow aliens are shown in a panel when the Totems are talking to Buddy and his daughter


----------



## Taleran (Nov 3, 2011)

I mean how it basically turns him into another Legacy character, like what the Ghost Rider / Iron Fist things did over at Marvel and like have been happening to nearly every character recently. No heroes are the original hero anymore there was always one before them.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 3, 2011)

you named 3 characters. swamp thing is 4 but still.

maybe it balances out how GL and Flash aren't legacy characters anymore


----------



## Taleran (Nov 3, 2011)

I mean hell even Bruce Wayne is now a legacy character 6 times removed on HIMSELF.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 3, 2011)

Taleran said:


> I mean hell even Bruce Wayne is now a legacy character 6 times removed on HIMSELF.



But that makes sense, because Batman is awesome like that.

"Yeah, I'm one of a long line of Green Lanterns of Sector 2814. Abin Sur, Skl'asdkfuw, Brutalitops... You have a legacy?"

"Yes, actually. It's called me at the beginning of humanity, then me as a Witchhunter, me as a Pirate, me as a Cowboy-"

"-You mean a _Batman_ who was a Cowboy."

"No, I mean _me_, traveling back in time, and fighting crime as a cowboy in 19th Century Gotham."

"... What the _fuck_, man!?"


----------



## Penance (Nov 3, 2011)

Anybody else like Static this week?  I thought it moved along quite nicely...BOSS

Red Lantern, I'm actually starting to like.

Animal Man, we already know...

Batwing was BOSS

Swamp Thing was a nice setup for the next chapter

Men of War and Action (which I normally like) were alright

And I haven't read Stormwatch, yet...Looking forward to it, of course...


----------



## Platinum (Nov 4, 2011)

Yeah i'm enjoying Red Lanterns way more than I thought I would. Pretty solid so far.

And dat animal man .


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 4, 2011)

Penance said:


> And I haven't read Stormwatch, yet...Looking forward to it, of course...



So far Stormwatch seems to be better with every issue. Lookin forward to some midnighter epicness next issue.


----------



## Glued (Nov 4, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So far Stormwatch seems to be better with every issue. Lookin forward to some midnighter epicness next issue.



Hows MM fitting in this week?


----------



## Whimsy (Nov 4, 2011)

I might trade wait on a lot of these bad boys.

Gonna be a while though


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 4, 2011)

after this week's Batwing i'm thinking of dropping Nightwing for it.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> So far Stormwatch seems to be better with every issue. Lookin forward to some midnighter epicness next issue.



You know Midnighter's costume is bothering me less and less each issue. It still ooks stupid for him to wear, but it doesn't bug me that much anymore. 

But I agree that it's getting progressivly more awesome with each issue.


----------



## Glued (Nov 4, 2011)

What is Martian Manhunter doing though?


----------



## Memos (Nov 4, 2011)

Just dropping in to heap endless praise on Animal Man and Swamp Thing.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 4, 2011)

Marvel Line Wide Reboot in 3..........2................1


----------



## Blinky (Nov 4, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> What is Martian Manhunter doing though?



Nuthin'. He Doesn't even eat cookies anymore 



Taleran said:


> Marvel Line Wide Reboot in 3..........2................1



I thought Marvel don't do big reboots ?


----------



## Devil Kings (Nov 4, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Nuthin'. He Doesn't even eat cookies anymore
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Marvel don't do big reboots ?



Every time i see you're sig i end up laughing at loud.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 4, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Marvel Line Wide Reboot in 3..........2................1



IDW is hanging in there


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 4, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Marvel Line Wide Reboot in 3..........2................1



doubt it. why would they? I can't think of any characters drastically in need of a reinvention or anything.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 4, 2011)

Even OMAC isn't dead last in DC sales for month of October.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 5, 2011)

God Lord, Animal Man


----------



## Platinum (Nov 5, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Even OMAC isn't dead last in DC sales for month of October.



Oh the rankings are out?


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 5, 2011)




----------



## Blinky (Nov 5, 2011)

Has anything really changed about Harley besides her clothes ?


----------



## illmatic (Nov 5, 2011)

Platinum said:


> Oh the rankings are out?



Sorta. Doesn't give the estimated # sold. 

Monster Hunter Wikia


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 5, 2011)

lol Comics Alliance.

Their bias is so strong it ain't even funny.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 5, 2011)

Huh? That website doesn't come off one way or the other anymore than any other does.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2011)

yeah it does. they're amazingly biased in any sort of reviews they do. IE: oh we dont like barbara gordon as batgirl again? NEW BOOK'S SCORE- 1 OUT OF 10

they're such complete babies.

however that fake cover thing is really funny.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 5, 2011)

So?

They are doing group reviews of 52 comics you don't think there going to be things people are biased about, mister I won't watch any movie made before I was born (you baby)


----------



## Parallax (Nov 5, 2011)

yeah Taleran is right petes


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2011)

Taleran said:


> So?
> 
> They are doing group reviews of 52 comics you don't think there going to be things people are biased about, mister I won't watch any movie made before I was born (you baby)



You said they weren't that biased now you admit they are.  And yes, they are more than any other major comic site. So you know, you might be ok with it but I'm still right about them.


Also, they get paid to write their articles. Usually not reviews, but still, they could pretend to be semi-professional or at the very least not pathetically narrow-minded faultfinders. 

ALSO, my lack of interest in 'old things' might mean I don't try out that stuff, but it does _not _mean I'll hate on an old movie I just saw just because it's old. I'd judge it by its own merits.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 5, 2011)

I meant biased between companies not to what they like or dislike, everyone is biased in that way.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 5, 2011)

Comics Alliance is very prone to be really harsh on DC for real poor reasons. Just look at Chris Sims look at the new 52 and give out 2s for things mildly irritating him. I mean, Christ, he gave Detective Comics a 0 out of hand. Meanwhile, same guy talks about how he loved what Fraction did for Fear Itself on their podcast.

I love their funny stuff, but IGN honestly comes off as far, far more objective and professional than they do.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 5, 2011)

Why do you hold a single writer up for an entire website that doesn't seem very objective or professional


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 5, 2011)

I was only reading DC very scarcely, like Green Lantern out of readership loyalty and SS out of SS is awesome, but now I'm ready to drop them both until someone tells me GL is great again.
However I am pleased to anounce I am following AC , so the company is not completely dead to me after all


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 5, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Why do you hold a single writer up for an entire website that doesn't seem very objective or professional



He was an example of something that's endemic of the site. He also writes more stories and reviews than anyone else, so...


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Why do you hold a single writer up for an entire website that doesn't seem very objective or professional



because everyone else on the site is the same exact way, except less funny.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2011)

Taleran said:


> I meant biased between companies not to what they like or dislike, everyone is biased in that way.



Well that's not at all what I meant, obviously. Just because a comic changes one little thing I don't like doesn't mean I give it a 3 out of 10 for that alone.

If you only read their reviews and not other articles they've done where they come off a lot smarter, you'd think the whole site was run by raving morons.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 5, 2011)

What is endemic exactly? That the people there, enjoy a varied assortment of things, dislike what they do not enjoy strongly, talk openly about it? That seems like the kinda environment you want to set up for a site like that.

I mean every review written about anything will have some of the person within it, how much depends on the person.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2011)

Taleran said:


> I mean every review written about anything will have some of the person within it, how much depends on the person.



First rule of reviewing- review how well it was done, not what you wanted them to do. Comicsalliance fucking fails at this.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 5, 2011)

Yeah sorry I don't see that most of their reviews are about how well or not well something was done. Also I don't know about you but I don't consider those Nu52 round tables to be reviews.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2011)

they're scoring them aren't they? they're just not remotely objective. which isn't how you're supposed to do reviews. They make up bullshit reasons to hate on something when its obvious their dislike for it comes from something a lot more petty.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 5, 2011)

Its a formality and a gimmick just for those. If you notice they don't give scores in any of the proper reviews. It was just a way to contextualize and _rank_ the books in that line.

The only person on those that I enjoyed was Wolkin because he knows what he is talking about.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2011)

that's because every other review on the site is sims either saying something is really REALLY bad (usually not nearly as bad as he says it is, unless it's smallville) or really REALLY good (usually not nearly as good as he says it is).


----------



## Glued (Nov 5, 2011)

Yes, long live OMAC!!!

Wait, he's only 84. Please Didio , you must keep writing OMAC.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 5, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Yeah sorry I don't see that most of their reviews are about how well or not well something was done. Also I don't know about you but I don't consider those Nu52 round tables to be reviews.



It's called "ComicsAlliance Reviews Every Book in DC's New 52". They aren't particularly good reviews, but they admit they are reviews. The only person in that whole series who gave the reboot a chance was Uzimeri, who actually seemed to _try_ books rather than dismiss them out of hand like Sims (Sample Review, DC Universe Presents:This new season of Quantum Leap is weird. 4).


----------



## Taleran (Nov 5, 2011)

Who says you have to give something a chance? Its job is to impress you not the other way around.

I mean most of us here in this thread would have given under 10 of the book a pass that seems where most of the people were if you go by the handy compilation at the end.



> 2 or More People coming back for more.
> 
> 6 votes: Animal Man, Batman
> 5 votes: Action Comics, Batwoman, Flash, Frankenstein, Justice League, Nightwing, Swamp Thing
> ...


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Who says you have to give something a chance? Its job is to impress you not the other way around.



Do you not understand the concept of reviews?...

I get it, you like the site, so you're willing to overlook their bullshit temper tantrums.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 5, 2011)

Yeah I understand what a review is. You read something you give your honest feelings about it and you post it for people to read. You do this tempered by other similar media you have consumed and a bit of subjective taste.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2011)

There's another step in there, you have to GIVE IT A CHANCE, and try to judge it objectively, because the purpose is to help other people decide if it's something they might like or not.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 5, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Who says you have to give something a chance? Its job is to impress you not the other way around.



So you can just give something a "0" because you don't like Tony Daniels? That's legitimate reviewing to you?

When I say "Give it a chance", I mean to not come into it with your own baggage and review it on its own merits. Sims doesn't do that; he doesn't like Tony Daniels, so he gives it a 0.

That's not reviewing. That's being an internet douchebag.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 5, 2011)

You are talking about a guy who calls himself a Batmanologist in public, why do you ever expect objective reviews about Batman related things from him?

To your question if I read a Tony Daniels comic and he is both writing and drawing it and I find it terrible then sure why not.



			
				Petes12 said:
			
		

> There's another step in there, you have to GIVE IT A CHANCE, and try to judge it objectively, because the purpose is to help other people decide if it's something they might like or not.



This I do not agree with in the slightest. If you review something on the merits of what it brings to the table anyone reading that will know if those things are what they enjoy or not.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2011)

They don't judge it based on the merits of the comic, like Gardner said they bring all their baggage to the review. If you can't see that, or what the problem with that is, then I'm not sure what to say.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 5, 2011)

Everyone always brings personal baggage into reviews. To deny that is naive.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2011)

Your denial of the obvious is pretty sad here Tal. 

Everyone brings a little bit of baggage to reviews, which actual reviewers do their best to put aside. Baggage dominates comicsalliance reviews, it matters more than the actual content of what they're reviewing. They go into stuff determined to hate it and come out the other end with a bunch of little nerdrage nitpicks and a score of '2' or whatever.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 5, 2011)

I haven't read any of their reviews. However to me it sounds like the difference between going: Dan Didio sucks, I hate that guy OMAC gets a 0/10. And: OMAC looks stupid, there's hardly any plot, what little plot there is makes no sense, and I already read The Hulk this month, 0/10. One of these is the correct way to review.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 5, 2011)

Luckily OMAC is quite good.


----------



## Glued (Nov 5, 2011)

Dan Didio rules and OMAC kicks ass.

I forgive Dan for all previous transgressions.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 5, 2011)

ComicsAlliance is nice when they aren't trying to defend a cause, their fanart and cosplay posts are fun. And yeah, their bias against DC is pretty obvious.

Even if Batgirl _does_ suck balls. 



Ben Grimm said:


> Dan Didio rules and OMAC kicks ass.
> 
> I forgive Dan for all previous transgressions.



Dan Didio thought killing Dick Grayson was a good idea.

That I will never forgive.


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 5, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Dan Didio thought killing Dick Grayson was a good idea.
> 
> That I will never forgive.



Meh. It's not like he would've stayed dead.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2011)

Even so the fact that he thought it was a good idea...

I mean it certainly would've been dramatic, and cut down on the number of robins running around, but c'mon. Infinite Crisis: We killed Dick Grayson and brought back Jason Todd! We R Gud at Comics


----------



## Parallax (Nov 5, 2011)

well this got real silly real fast


----------



## Blinky (Nov 5, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Dan Didio thought killing Dick Grayson was a good idea.
> 
> That I will never forgive.



I find it funny how oblivious he was of Dick's popularity.

But because of that he found out how popular he was and it seemingly is the reason Dick was Batman for a while which is pretty cool.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 5, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> Meh. It's not like he would've stayed dead.



Spiderman-Man selling his soul to the devil will be retconned sooner or later. It doesn't make it any less idiotic.



Blinky said:


> I find it funny how oblivious he was of Dick's popularity.
> 
> But because of that he found out how popular he was and it seemingly is the reason Dick was Batman for a while which is pretty cool.



Which he isn't anymore.

Damn you Didio


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2011)

only loss there was him hanging out with damian, to me.


----------



## Shadow (Nov 5, 2011)

L O L


----------



## Blinky (Nov 5, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Which he isn't anymore.
> 
> Damn you Didio



I thought we were blaming Barry Allen for everything ? 

Unless.... Didio is Barry Allen 



Petes12 said:


> only loss there was him hanging out with damian, to me.



Same really but I liked their B&R a lot (which I only read recently) so it is kind of a shame even though everyone knew it wouldn't last.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 6, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Dan Didio rules and OMAC kicks ass.
> 
> I forgive Dan for all previous transgressions.



I chose Morrison and OMAC because he was the only author I could think of off the top of my head aside from Morrison. I don't think you can type the sentence 'I hate Morrison' in a truthful context.

Edit: Also because a lot of people do hate Didio. I'm neutral on him. Sure he got rid of Wally, but he is writing OMAC.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 6, 2011)

Well he's co-writing it with Keith Giffen but if the general buzz is to be believed Didio is pulling his weight with the writing.


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Nov 6, 2011)

This would be so much better than "Red Hood & The Outlaws".


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 6, 2011)

Jason Todd was Red X in the Teen Titans cartoon. They outright said it in a very brief frame when BB is trying to figure out who he is. The point is it would be practiclly he same book. Instead of using guns, Jason would X people to death.

Edit: The true dream team would be Adam Strange, Starfire, and Lobo. I would say Animal Man but that would mean getting rid of his book.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Phantom Roxas said:


> This would be so much better than "Red Hood & The Outlaws".



That made my skin Crawl


----------



## Devil Kings (Nov 6, 2011)

Honestly, there's too much bat sidekicks running around.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 6, 2011)

And there's also other Batmen in different cities! Although the Russian one was randomly killed off in B&R.. I don't really mind all that or the Bat jrs being around.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

I still think the Batman inc.stuff is stupid


----------



## Blinky (Nov 6, 2011)

ur face is stupid


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

touche blinky touche


----------



## Platinum (Nov 6, 2011)

Sick fires from blinky.


----------



## mali (Nov 6, 2011)

Red Lantern line just keeps on getting better and better.
Animal Man looks pretty fucked up, i a good way.....if that makes sense.

Im waitin on New Guardians, I hope Kyle rips the guardians a new one for screwing with Ganthet


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Nov 6, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Jason Todd was Red X in the Teen Titans cartoon. They outright said it in a very brief frame when BB is trying to figure out who he is. The point is it would be practiclly he same book. Instead of using guns, Jason would X people to death.
> 
> Edit: The true dream team would be Adam Strange, Starfire, and Lobo. I would say Animal Man but that would mean getting rid of his book.



Jason's name on the board could have just been a nod to the character, with Red X possibly serving as an homage to the Red Hood, although it wouldn't surprise me if he really was Red X. According to the artist of that cover, the producers said that Red X wasn't Jason Todd. I'll have to look for that interview to see if that's true.

You should read the synopsis, though: "The mysterious Red X has discovered that Arsenal's daughter is still alive. While Roy and Starfire believes him, unfortunately, everyone else believes former villain is lying to take advantage of the grief stricken archer. Together with Red X, the trio will journey the dark and mystic Redemption Road to reunite father and daughter together again."

With a premise like that, I highly doubt that it would be the same book.



Zen-aku said:


> That made my skin Crawl



...In a good or bad way? Red X was a cool villain, whereas people are baffled why Jason Todd got a book after people desperately wanted him dead.


----------



## Platinum (Nov 6, 2011)

The red hood and outlaws book is nothing great but it's pretty okay.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

Phantom Roxas said:


> This would be so much better than "Red Hood & The Outlaws".



tbh almost everything about this annoys me, especially the 'it turns out lian is still alive!' thing. 

like, lian's gone, just get over it.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Nov 6, 2011)

Phantom Roxas said:


> This would be so much better than "Red Hood & The Outlaws".


Smh it's cool and all but what was with all the Jason Todd bashing ?


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Nov 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> tbh almost everything about this annoys me, especially the 'it turns out lian is still alive!' thing.
> 
> like, lian's gone, just get over it.



Eh, comics tend to bring back characters, and it's better than her not even existing at in the reboot. Besides, I'd rather have Starfire actually have emotion rather than be an emotionless whore. I'm only familiar with the Starfire from the cartoon, and that fake comic seems to have the main characters more like their cartoon incarnations.x



KizaruTachio said:


> Smh it's cool and all but what was with all the Jason Todd bashing ?



Jason Todd was killed off because people found him incredibly annoying, and his return aggravated a lot of people because he continued to be a jackass. If people had to choose between an awesome enigmatic villain and an obnoxious anti-hero that should have stayed dead, who do you think they would pick?


----------



## KizaruTachio (Nov 6, 2011)

Implying everyone that reads DC comics (currently) hates Jason Todd. 

Red Hood in the Outlaws is great imo, reminds me of a good Jason Stathem film. Like Transporter or Crank.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 6, 2011)

Yeah that concept seems nothing but pandering. It is close to Crank but it doesn't have quite the bug fuck insanity or the gonzo craziness.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

Phantom Roxas said:


> Eh, comics tend to bring back characters, and it's better than her not even existing at in the reboot.



no it's not. for me it is easily the best possible outcome.

I agree with starfire complaints but not roy ones with that book. casting roy as a fairly terrible sidekick in a buddy comedy works so much better than angsty dad. I like that it kind of accepts his inherent lameness too.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 6, 2011)

Not to mention that Roy looks a lot younger now, so him having a kid that old would feel needlessly tacked onto the book and like just appeasing people the simple way.


----------



## Glued (Nov 6, 2011)

I wonder what DC would be like if Jason Todd were Batman.


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 6, 2011)

Anyone here started playing DCU Online after it became Free to Play?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

I tried it I gotta admit, character creation stuff is always fun. And that was cool, I like how new 'gear' adds more customization options.

But man they totally dropped the ball on power sets. It's not that there isn't a billion of barely different sets of powers out there, but they just really chose terrible powers. No super strength set! in the DCU where half its heroes are superman wannabes you can't be like superman!


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 6, 2011)

Yeah, I also thought it was weird that the game had every other kind of power set except the classic "super strength + eye lasers" powerset.

Still, I've been having a blast playing as a speedster running around and climbing buildings. :33


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Phantom Roxas said:


> ...In a good or bad way? Red X was a cool villain, whereas people are baffled why Jason Todd got a book after people desperately wanted him dead.



Bad way, the show wasn't very good, and Red X was a generic look at him he is so cool and mysterious pandering antihero

Also since his return jason todd has gotten himself quite the fan base, a big enough one he is able to star in his very own book


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 6, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Edit: The true dream team would be Adam Strange, Starfire, and Lobo. I would say Animal Man but that would mean getting rid of his book.



Dream team from 52 exploring the universe and kicking ass 



Phantom Roxas said:


> ...In a good or bad way? Red X was a cool villain, whereas people are baffled why Jason Todd got a book after people desperately wanted him dead.



People wanting Jason dead was 20 years ago


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm actually surprised they haven't brought Red X into the comics yet to be honest...


----------



## Taleran (Nov 6, 2011)

No different than the Red Hood at this point.


EDIT: I really wish this was written like two months ago but you can't control this stuff.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Nov 6, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I'm actually surprised they haven't brought Red X into the comics yet to be honest...



But they brought the Super Speed Mexican Twins in. 

Bullshit.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Nov 6, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Yeah that concept seems nothing but pandering. It is close to Crank but it doesn't have quite the bug fuck insanity or the gonzo craziness.



I think just haven't found there legs yet.



Ben Grimm said:


> I wonder what DC would be like if Jason Todd were Batman.



More specifically what would Gotham be like. If only DC did What If ? Comics.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I'm actually surprised they haven't brought Red X into the comics yet to be honest...


They just Changed X to hood



Taleran said:


> EDIT: I really wish this was written like two months ago but you can't control this stuff.



people actually complained about criminals i.e Low level thugs calling catwoman a bitch


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Nov 6, 2011)

Update: Still totally unintrested in post reboot comics


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

'alternate reality supergirl' is pretty stupid you have to admit...


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

i liked the alternate reality daughter of superman thing to be honest


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 6, 2011)

Phantom Roxas said:


> Jason's name on the board could have just been a nod to the character, with Red X possibly serving as an homage to the Red Hood, although it wouldn't surprise me if he really was Red X. According to the artist of that cover, the producers said that Red X wasn't Jason Todd. I'll have to look for that interview to see if that's true.


They didn't flat out say it, but it was around the time Jason came back as a bad guy, and the the Jason Todd ===> Red X on the board makes me believe he was Jason. I'm not surprised the producers said Red X wasn't Jason Todd. Here's why. If they endorsed it they would also have to pay for the rights to Jason Todd.



> You should read the synopsis, though: "The mysterious Red X has discovered that Arsenal's daughter is still alive. While Roy and Starfire believes him, unfortunately, everyone else believes former villain is lying to take advantage of the grief stricken archer. Together with Red X, the trio will journey the dark and mystic Redemption Road to reunite father and daughter together again."
> 
> With a premise like that, I highly doubt that it would be the same book.



The premise was okay I suppose. I never read much of DC after Final Crisis so I really don't give a damn about things like Cry for Justice and Rise of Arsenal.



KizaruTachio said:


> But they brought the Super Speed Mexican Twins in.
> 
> Bullshit.


If I remember right they were one of the ones that Skeets butchered to death in 52. Suits me fine.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Nov 6, 2011)

I demand links.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 6, 2011)

After searching google I found out I was full of shit. I could have sworn they were on the same team as Ambush Bug.


----------



## Glued (Nov 6, 2011)

Who wants to be an alternate reality Supergirl when you can be Mister Terrific's girlfriends.


----------



## FeiHong (Nov 6, 2011)

Currently I'm reading the new Teen Titans from the new Reboot. I'm sort of liking it... I tried to read the Static Shock and Flash, but not really interested...

Anyone got any good recommendations?


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

FeiHong said:


> Currently I'm reading the new Teen Titans from the new Reboot. I'm sort of liking it... I tried to read the Static Shock and Flash, but not really interested...
> 
> Anyone got any good recommendations?



Red Hood and the outlaws [same writer as titans]
Batman and robin
Green lantern Corps.
Wonder Woman


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Nov 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> 'alternate reality supergirl' is pretty stupid you have to admit...



Um, no?

Once you have swallowed "Billionaire stalks night rather than gets therapy and doesn't die" everything else is easy.


----------



## Glued (Nov 6, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Um, no?
> 
> Once you have swallowed "Billionaire stalks night rather than gets therapy and doesn't die" everything else is easy.



How about being the great granddaughter of Arion, former King of Atlantis, and also being Aquaman's great great great great great great great great great great .......great great aunt.

No, I'm not joking, her origin was retconned making her Arion's Great Granddaughter.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

except it clearly isn't or you'd see robin in the movies wouldn't you? 

its a dumb origin that makes her like derivative twice over, she deserves better. a while back ghstwrld linked that JL makeover, where that artist gave his version of what he'd like to see. Most of it was awful but his powergirl was great- government creating their own superman.


----------



## Glued (Nov 6, 2011)

Mr. Terrific will cause an accident which will create Power Girl... believe it!


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

FeiHong said:


> Currently I'm reading the new Teen Titans from the new Reboot. I'm sort of liking it... I tried to read the Static Shock and Flash, but not really interested...
> 
> Anyone got any good recommendations?



I liked Flash a lot... granted that book is mostly for the art, but still the story wasn't bad either.

But I'd strongly recommend Batman (just plain batman, not detective comics or the dark knight), Wonder Woman, Action Comics, Animal Man, Batwoman and Swamp Thing. 

I'd also recommend Green Lantern, Stormwatch, Justice League (plain adjectiveless justice league), and Demon Knights. 

And if you're looking for more teen hero type books, try Blue Beetle, it's fairly good so far, definitely better than static.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

am i really the only one who thinks Green lantern is pretty bland?


----------



## Parallax (Nov 6, 2011)

I co sign on Pete's recommendations


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> am i really the only one who thinks Green lantern is pretty bland?



1) Sinestro is fucking awesome

2) Doug Mahnke is never bland


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Nov 6, 2011)

3) Hal Jordan is always bland


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> 1) Sinestro is fucking awesome
> 
> 2) Doug Mahnke is never bland



but the book is, there's like nothign really engaging about it not even sinestro


----------



## illmatic (Nov 6, 2011)

I'd recommend *Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E.*

I heard its a bit like Hellboy but that's probably like saying the Avengers are too much like the Justice League or vice versa


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

Johns has done a better job with hal since the relaunch imo but whatever. I'm confident in my recommendations. Meanwhile one of you loves red hood and the other is so offended by any change ever that you wont give anything a chance


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Johns has done a better job with hal since the relaunch imo but whatever. I'm confident in my recommendations. Meanwhile one of you loves red hood and the other is so offended by any change ever that you wont give anything a chance



Redhood is Awesome


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 6, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Redhood is mediocre



fixed


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 6, 2011)

FeiHong said:


> Currently I'm reading the new Teen Titans from the new Reboot. I'm sort of liking it... I tried to read the Static Shock and Flash, but not really interested...
> 
> Anyone got any good recommendations?



If I had to put together a list of 5 books you can't miss it would be JL, Action Comics, A-man, Demon Knights, and Aquaman.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 6, 2011)

FeiHong said:


> Currently I'm reading the new Teen Titans from the new Reboot. I'm sort of liking it... I tried to read the Static Shock and Flash, but not really interested...
> 
> Anyone got any good recommendations?



Go with Animal Man, Action Comics, Demon Knights Frankenstein Swamp Thing and All Star Western

If you want more Wonder Woman, Supergirl and Aquaman are also pretty fun


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 6, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Go with Animal Man, Action Comics, Demon Knights Frankenstein Swamp Thing and All Star Western
> 
> If you want more Wonder Woman, Supergirl and Aquaman are also pretty fun



This pretty much are my favorites.

I'd just add OMAC, Batman and Flash.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 6, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> This pretty much are my favorites.
> 
> I'd just add OMAC, Batman and Flash.



He said he didn't like Flash so that's why I didn't reccomend it...forgot about Batman though


----------



## Parallax (Nov 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Johns has done a better job with hal since the relaunch imo but whatever. I'm confident in my recommendations. Meanwhile one of you loves red hood and the other is so offended by any change ever that you wont give anything a chance



I also co sign this


----------



## Glued (Nov 6, 2011)

OMAC is the most random, weird and just plain fun comic I am reading at the moment. Its like my brain is on hallucinogenic compounds while I'm reading it. 

I'm also loving Red Lanterns due to psychological aspects.

Frankenstein: Agent of Shade is pretty cool as well.

Demon Knights is like fantasy RPG type story, very awesome

I'm also liking the recent Aquaman stuff.

Hawkman, though I am disappointed by the lack of carnage, is actually shaping up to be a pretty good story. I liked the fight scene between Hawkman and Morphicus in Hawkman #2


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 6, 2011)

When is the Frankenstein/OMAC crossover happening?

I can't wait, I love those two books.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

but to the new guy dont bother with OMAC unless you're interested in a wacky throwback comic. It's got, you know, a certain demographic, but it is definitely not for everyone. 

And yeah I guess Aquaman would be fine to add to the list. 

And correction to ben grimm: Demon Knights is a fantasy comic WITH REALLY PRETTY ART and its pretty funny too.


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 6, 2011)

Well, I'm pretty much new to comics and I really like OMAC. I'd probably like it more if I knew more about Kirby, but it's still fun.

Yeah, it's not for everyone though.


----------



## Glued (Nov 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> but to the new guy dont bother with OMAC unless you're interested in a wacky throwback comic. It's got, you know, a certain demographic, but it is definitely not for everyone.



True, OMAC is a very Silver Age, Kirbyesque type of work.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> fixed


 
If You dont like Redhood you dont Like awesome. 

it Has Every thing in it

Aliens, Triads, bromance, Tibetan ninjas, guns, Arrows, mercenaries, sex, ancient conspiracies, and most importantly Cheescake

EDIT: It also has Zombies, and  a Ever changing locale.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

and really terrible boob jokes that make no sense


----------



## Parallax (Nov 6, 2011)

Maybe some people don't want to read that

and that's not everything


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> and really terrible boob jokes that make no sense



actually that is some thing it doesn't have


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

try rereading issue 1. 

you can defend it all you want but i'll defend GL in turn


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> try rereading issue 1.


 hmm i dont remember any thing


----------



## hehey (Nov 6, 2011)

I would recommend Batman, Superboy, and All Star Western


----------



## Parallax (Nov 6, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> hmm i dont remember any thing



38DD's

it's during the escape when Roy is talking to Jason


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Parallax said:


> 38DD's
> 
> it's during the escape when Roy is talking to Jason



oh yeah that, one joke

it was actually kinda funny


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> hmm i dont remember any thing





followed by roy saying oh when he sees starfire. roys 'i dont get it who do we know carrying 38s' makes 0 sense. was loeb worthy dialog.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> followed by roy saying oh when he sees starfire. roys 'i dont get it who do we know carrying 38s' makes 0 sense. was loeb worthy dialog.



How Dare you


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> oh yeah that, one joke
> 
> it was actually kinda funny



it made ZERO SENSE 

the setup, roys lines, all of it, total fail on a basic writing level


----------



## Parallax (Nov 6, 2011)

It did make sense Petes

it just wasn't a very good joke


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> it made ZERO SENSE
> 
> the setup, roys lines, all of it, total fail on a basic writing level



Roy new he was hinting at some thing with his 38 comment he just dint know what, made plenty of sense


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

it really didn't.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 6, 2011)

dirty jokes are a mystery to petes


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

i get the boob size part 

but its the equivalent of knock knock, whos there? barack, barack who? BOOOOOBS


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

It really wasn't


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

38 of them? no, sorry, that doesn't work.

was less funny and less sensible than Ultimates 3's GUESS THAT MAKES ME THE friend


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> 38 of them? no, sorry, that doesn't work.
> 
> was less funny and less sensible than Ultimates 3's GUESS THAT MAKES ME THE friend


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i get the boob size part
> 
> but its the equivalent of knock knock, whos there? barack, barack who? BOOOOOBS



knock knock, whos there? Barack, Barack who? 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Barack BoObama.




I can't stop snickering. I guess I'm the demographic Red Hood is for.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

if u are a man and or fan of action movies you are Red Hood's Demographic


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

sorta like red hulk?


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> sorta like red hulk?



red hulk is a good book under Jeff parker so....yeah


----------



## Parallax (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm a man

I like action

but I hated Red Hulk


----------



## Devil Kings (Nov 6, 2011)

I've hearing a few thing about Power Girl, a few things that makes me gag. 

Does anyone know what her fate is.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2011)

loeb red hulk******


----------



## Glued (Nov 6, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> I've hearing a few thing about Power Girl, a few things that makes me gag.
> 
> Does anyone know what her fate is.




She is Mr. Terrific's girlfriend, she has no powers.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 6, 2011)

Maybe she is now a robot who now has the power to see someone who can't be seen by technology.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

i am torn, that is a shit way to use her character

but Interracial relationships make me happy.


----------



## Glued (Nov 6, 2011)

She is Mr. Terrific's rich white girlfriend.

When a black woman disrespects her.

Her response is, "Its because I'm the white girl isn't it."

These are the actual words from the comic.

The black woman responds, "I'm a black woman. I have to deal with things you can't even imagine."


----------



## Parallax (Nov 6, 2011)

sounds like any other handling of interracial relationships from the media


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> She is Mr. Terrific's rich white girlfriend.
> 
> When a black woman disrespects her.
> 
> ...



i read the issue after i heard about that [Bile fascination] but i didn't realize that was power girl

shit just gets worse and worse.....


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 6, 2011)

Parallax said:


> sounds like any other handling of interracial relationships from the media



Jessica Jone and Luke Cage
Danny Rand and Misty Knight
Jason rusch and Gehenna
Gambit and Frenzy


----------



## Glued (Nov 6, 2011)

My guess is that if Power Girl reappears, it will be because Mr. Terrific created an accident in his lab.

Karen Starr is a rich woman and she does run her own company though.


----------



## Glued (Nov 6, 2011)

They will become TERRIFIC POWER!!!


----------



## Devil Kings (Nov 6, 2011)

I don't care about her being Terrific's girlfriend.

What i want to know is has she been rebooted completely, no family ties to Earth 2 Superman. Or anything of the sort.

I swear, if they make her  just a regular character, when she had so much potential I'm gonna cut a bitch.

What's even worse was that they chose Jason over her.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 7, 2011)

riiiiight. 

power girl's personality is great. her origin notsomuch


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 7, 2011)

They might as well go with the Bruce Timmverse's orgin for their version of Powergirl. Cadmus cloned Supergirl. Its one sentence, its believable enough, and it never needs to be retconned.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 7, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> They might as well go with the Bruce Timmverse's orgin for their version of Powergirl. Cadmus cloned Supergirl. Its one sentence, its believable enough, and it never needs to be retconned.



But then she's Just Superboy with Tits



Shudder


----------



## Glued (Nov 7, 2011)

So, we should make her the great granddaughter of Arion and Aquaman's very distant aunt again?



Devil Kings said:


> I don't care about her being Terrific's girlfriend.
> 
> What i want to know is has she been rebooted completely, no family ties to Earth 2 Superman. Or anything of the sort.
> 
> ...


She's a normal regular woman, with billions of dollars.

Mr. Terrific has a son from the future and it may be Karen's purpose to produce said offspring for him.

Worst part, Mr. T hardly shows much affection for her. He's too busy moping about his dead wife


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 7, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> But then she's Just Superboy with Tits
> 
> 
> 
> Shudder



No, Superboy is Project Nowhere. Power Girl would be Cadmus. It would be completely different.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 7, 2011)

My list right now is

Animal Man
Wonder Woman
Flash
Action


I gave Teen Titans a try but the art is too much a love letter to a style I do not enjoy at all.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 7, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> But then she's Just Superboy with Tits
> 
> 
> 
> Shudder



I'd hit that.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 7, 2011)

With a kryptonite shovel ?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 7, 2011)

Taleran said:


> I gave Teen Titans a try but the art is too much a love letter to a style I do not enjoy at all.



that really implies booth has another style, i don't think its a love letter to the style I think he's just one of those artists.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 7, 2011)

The art in Teen Titans is so ugly.



Blinky said:


> With a kryptonite shovel ?



that would be rude


----------



## mali (Nov 7, 2011)

The Outlaws seems alright.


Due to Slutfire that is


----------



## Blinky (Nov 7, 2011)

Can't say I like the writing of this Lobdell person. Both Red Hood and Teen Titans have some seriously awkward dialogue.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 7, 2011)

Superboy is ok. Outlaws is like an action movie from the 90s but without the charm. And TT is an X-men wannabe. 2 issues in I can't wait till somebody kills Tim and Cassie.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 7, 2011)

how is TT an X-men wanabe? it feels more like the Runaways if any thing [Note not saying it is as good as the runaways, before any knickers get into twists]


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 7, 2011)

I don't really see how being like the x-men is a negative anyway. It beats being like the teen titans


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 7, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I don't really see how being like the x-men is a negative anyway. It beats being like the teen titans



ooooooooooo.


----------



## Penance (Nov 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I'd hit that.



It'd hit you back...


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 7, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I don't really see how being like the x-men is a negative anyway. It beats being like the teen titans



Yeah, pretty much. After IC (depending on whether or not you liked Johns' run, which I did), that whole franchise just died off.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 7, 2011)

Hasn't the franchise been pretty fucked after the guys who made it really popular left ?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 7, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Hasn't the franchise been pretty fucked after the guys who made it really popular left ?



Yeah, though the bigger problem came with Sean McKeever, though Geoff Johns' last arc didn't help. I have no idea what happened to him when he came to DC, but his ridiculous over-dramatic approach killed the book (as well more than a few characters in rather brutal fashion). Apparently Avengers Academy is really good, so I have no clue if he just had to get that out of his system or if editorial completely tied him down. After that, I just never got back into TT.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 7, 2011)

Avengers Academy is written by Gage though


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 7, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Avengers Academy is written by Gage though



Huh. I dunno why I thought that was McKeever. I was like "Oh, it's nice to hear he's doing good stuff."


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 7, 2011)

mckeever's really not bad at that sort of title generally. but even barring the dismal performance of pretty much every writer on that book, I just thought there were teen titans 'tropes' that were just so retarded to begin with. Basically a bunch of notyetcollege teenagers all leave home to live with one another in a t shaped tower, die like pathetic fodder, and then build a graveyard in said awful tower. And they're all woo legacy lets honor all thats come before us! which is, you know, what I'd expect from the old ass people in JSA not anyone else and definitely not the teen heroes.

Giving the team a reason to form other than the really sketchy 'we need to hang out with other kids who aren't normal and get killed by supervillains' is a good idea.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 7, 2011)

Avengers Academy does a good job of justifying it, the premise is simply that they are young heroes being trained by d-lister Avengers. But that only works because they're all new characters, something like that wouldn't work with the Teen Titans because most of them are really experienced anyway. 

That's my problem with them... they kinda don't fit in. Like in the Young Justice cartoon Batman sends them on these big dangerous missions because the Justice League is busy which just looks hilariously irresponsible. My favourite example of this is sending the team to fight the Injustice League, a fucking team of big villians like the Joker and Black Adam because the Justice League are busy fighting giant plants. 

Maybe the concept is just dated I dunno.


----------



## Whimsy (Nov 7, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Avengers Academy does a good job of justifying it, the premise is simply that they are young heroes being trained by d-lister Avengers. But that only works because they're all new characters, something like that wouldn't work with the Teen Titans because most of them are really experienced anyway.
> 
> That's my problem with them... they kinda don't fit in. Like in the Young Justice cartoon Batman sends them on these big dangerous missions because the Justice League is busy which just looks hilariously irresponsible. *My favourite example of this is sending the team to fight the Injustice League, a fucking team of big villians like the Joker and Black Adam because the Justice League are busy fighting giant plants.*
> 
> Maybe the concept is just dated I dunno.



Fucking lol


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 7, 2011)

I am still pissed Black adam didn't kill them all like he should of

Super boy punched him in the face and didn't break his goddamn hand


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 7, 2011)

at least YJ has the stealth team angle so they have some kind of purpose to them other than waiting around to get punched to death by superman prime.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Nov 7, 2011)

Finally gotten around to reading some of the reboot titles and it's seems like a gigantic bag of meh for the most part. 

_Action Comics_ is really blah and feels more like Morrison's writing about Spiderman than Supes. I'll give it a couple more issues, but it's just been very disappointing so far. 

_Superman_ is MUCH better, though I absolute hate withdrawn, mopey Clark. Loved both of the big monster fights so far. 

_Flash_, I'd like a lot more if it wasn't Barry. He's just so damn boring and the story's moving at a snail's pace which makes it even worse.

_Teen Titans_ was annoying and Cassie's an even bigger bitch now than she was pre-reboot and fuck a bunch of Tim's new Red Robin costume. 

_Aquaman_ was really fucking good and hopefully it'll keep up the quality.

_Red Hood and the Outlaws_ was a gigantic pile of ass and DC has definitely succeeded in making Roy Harper into an unlikeable jackass with the Trifecta of Suck™(Cry For Justice/Rise of Arsenal/this shitbag). Definitely won't read anymore of this.

_Hawk & Dove_ was a very bland bag of suck and the art is terrible. Another one I won't bother with in the future.

_Justice League_ needs to pick up the damn pace.

_Justice League International_ has been okay so far, but reboot Booster just isn't doing anything for me.

_Superboy_ is just as stagnate as most of the other books from the relaunch. Hopefully something finally happens when they send him after Tim and Cassie.

_Supergirl_ wasn't bad, waiting to see how they'll handle her.

_Demon Kinghts_ was a lot of fun. Vandal Savage as a loony viking/barbarian/whatever? Sign me the fuck up. 

_Wonder Woman_ was fine, though Diana seems to be much more of a bitch now. Hope the fight with Strife is a good one.


So, that's my impressions of the books I've managed to read. Am looking for Resurrection Man, Men of War, and All-Star Western as some people have been recommending them to me(I'll probably buy them from the digital store).


----------



## Blinky (Nov 7, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> I am still pissed Black adam didn't kill them all like he should of
> 
> Super boy punched him in the face and didn't break his goddamn hand



Nah it's a cartoon so they don't have to be as powerful as they are in the comics. Hell Captain Marvel gets knocked out by a tiger or something. It doesn't matter.



Petes12 said:


> at least YJ has the stealth team angle so they have some kind of purpose to them other than waiting around to get punched to death by superman prime.



And they are being monitored by the Justice League to an extent. 

It's not even that it bothers me because in fairness, if they try too hard to justify it then there wouldn't really be any exciting stories. Just saying that it's hard to make it work for todays comic audience.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 7, 2011)

#1 in October [JUSTICE LEAGUE] #2 $3.99 DC *180,709*



These are estimates of the sales on comic books by Diamond U.S. to comic specialty stores during October 2011.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 7, 2011)

*Most titles in the Top 300 by a publisher*. _DC placed more titles in the Top 300 than any publisher since the Diamond Exclusive Era began in 1996: *129*. All but one of the "New 52" titles that launched in the previous month reappeared in the Top 300. The previous high-water mark was set by Marvel, which had 119 entries on the charts in December 2008 and June 2009. _


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I don't really see how being like the x-men is a negative anyway. It beats being like the teen titans



That's why I said wannabe 




Zen-aku said:


> how is TT an X-men wanabe? it feels more like the Runaways if any thing [Note not saying it is as good as the runaways, before any knickers get into twists]



Teen metas persecuted because of their powers.

I'd say Runaways is a better comparison but TT doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence.



Penance said:


> It'd hit you back...



oh you


----------



## Glued (Nov 8, 2011)

If I wanted to read about DC teenagers persecuted because of their powers, I'd read Legion of Superheroes.

Hey, what is the Legion doing these days?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2011)

being GOD AWFUL


----------



## Glued (Nov 8, 2011)

Hey guys what exactly do you think turned Vandal Savage from a savage vandal into a machiavellian aristocratic villain?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2011)

I think Demon Knights is the only thing I've read or seen where he matched up with his name. Other than that, he was in that FC tie-in and I saw him on the Justice League cartoon...


----------



## Glued (Nov 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> being GOD AWFUL



That bad huh.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2011)

well you can try it, i guess levitz just continued straight through the reboot like nothing happened though. so the relaunch is not the place to start apparently. 

only legion I liked at all was 3boot


----------



## Blinky (Nov 8, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Hey guys what exactly do you think turned Vandal Savage from a savage vandal into a machiavellian aristocratic villain?



I hope he stays in Brian Blessed mode in the new DC 

[YOUTUBE]L1zjeYhJs7o[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Taleran (Nov 8, 2011)

> Brad Walker (HEROES FOR HIRE) is drawing the backup in #4. The backups of #5 — spotlighting Ma & Pa Kent — and #6 will be drawn by ChrisCross (SUPERMAN/BATMAN). The backup of #7 sees Brad Walker return to the art, *and then #8 — the conclusion of the first storyarc* — is one big issue-long epic by Grant Morrison and Rags Morales!



Does that seem like a very long opening arc to anyone else?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2011)

it does, but on the other hand every issue so far has felt like its own separate thing too, it's not like iron man or USM where it feels like 1 story split into 6 parts.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 8, 2011)

8 issues isn't that bad

there used to be a time when stories were around that length if not a little longer.


----------



## The Big G (Nov 8, 2011)

in character or not....

DAT ASS


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2011)

As much as I like action comics exploring the past though, I want it to get to the present too so that there's a good Superman story set now


----------



## Penance (Nov 8, 2011)

This has been so consistently good...I can't wait for the next issue...


----------



## illmatic (Nov 8, 2011)

> Over the past few days, we’ve been linking to all of the exclusive previews of the third issues from DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 that are going on sale tomorrow.
> 
> Below, take a look at all the previews that ran (sorted alphabetically and separated by cover), compiled here in one easy location for your convenience.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 8, 2011)

Demon Knights
Batman And Robin
Superboy 
and Suicide Squad for me



> The Big G said:
> 
> 
> > *Spoiler*: __
> ...


 indeed

But then Starfire has always had one purpose in her Existence 

Note this is before the Reboot


----------



## The Big G (Nov 8, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> indeed



What I love about Red Hood an the Outlaws is that it feels like a bunch just graduated college kids going off to commit global shenanigans


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 8, 2011)

The Big G said:


> What I love about Red Hood an the Outlaws is that it feels like a bunch just graduated college kids going off to commit global shenanigans



Instead of backpacking across Europe their fighting Zombies in the Himalayas.


----------



## The Big G (Nov 8, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Instead of backpacking across Europe their fighting Zombies in the Himalayas.



damn straight 

If i don't get a threesome out of those three by the end of the run...I WILL BE DISSAPOINT


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 8, 2011)

The Big G said:


> damn straight
> 
> If i don't get a threesome out of those three by the end of the run...I WILL BE DISSAPOINT



Then were in agreement, This is their Theme song


----------



## The Big G (Nov 9, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Then were in agreement, This is their Theme song



Quite so good sir


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 9, 2011)

The Big G said:


> in character or not....
> 
> DAT ASS



My back hurts just looking at it


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 9, 2011)

Why is Secret Six listed under new 52 in the online store?


----------



## Penance (Nov 9, 2011)

Man, the dialogue in Batgirl was so bad...


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 9, 2011)

Penance said:


> Man, the dialogue in Batgirl was so bad...



i am surprised at all the negative word of mouth i hear about that title


----------



## Rasendori (Nov 9, 2011)

Red hood and the outlaws was funny, and that's how it should be taken, not too seriously.


----------



## Penance (Nov 9, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> i am surprised at all the negative word of mouth i hear about that title



It's just, this issue read like one of those Werewolf/romance novels.  Very twitch-worthy...


----------



## Penance (Nov 9, 2011)

Rasendori said:


> Red hood and the outlaws was funny, and that's how it should be taken, not too seriously.



Totally agree...


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 9, 2011)

Vandal Savage rules.
Sinestro rules.

All is well.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 9, 2011)

Rasendori said:


> Red hood and the outlaws was funny, and that's how it should be taken, not too seriously.


 *Looks At Your Sig*

Seems That the best things in life are the ones you dont take to seriously. 



Penance said:


> It's just, this issue read like one of those Werewolf/romance novels.  Very twitch-worthy...


*shudders* that bad, Really?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 9, 2011)

My patience with Batgirl has worn out, I might pick it back up again later down the line but for now i'm dropping it for either Batman and Robin or Batwing.

This issue...as other have said the diologue is just awful


----------



## Penance (Nov 9, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> *shudders* that bad, Really?



"Wind in my hair.  Former Boy Wonder wrapped around me.  *Painfully* nice."

"So why *are* you here, Richard?"  

" There are so many dumb things in that comment, Richard John Grayson, that I can't even *explain*.  "

"I had to, Richard.  I simply had to."

"He was the first crush I ever had that wasn't a scientist-It's a different thing altogether. "

"*Enough* with the well-meaning guys.  They want to keep an eye on me? I'll send their eyes back blackened."  

"...It doesn't mean I don't lo-*care* about you.  "

"Oh grr.  *So* very grr."


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 9, 2011)

Penance said:


> "Wind in my hair.  Former Boy Wonder wrapped around me.  *Painfully* nice."
> 
> "So why *are* you here, Richard?"
> 
> ...



.....I want the blond girl back


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 9, 2011)

i was not surprised it was so over the top. 

same books that have been good continue to be good- GL, Demon Knights, Batwoman. I liked Batman and Robin too, I think that book's been pretty solid. Had a cool little fight scene.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 9, 2011)

Batwoman let me love you.



Penance said:


> "Wind in my hair.  Former Boy Wonder wrapped around me.  *Painfully* nice."
> 
> "So why *are* you here, Richard?"
> 
> ...



Reads like fanfic 

Also, a Batgirl that is not Cass beating Nightwing? Yeah right.



Zen-aku said:


> .....I want the blond girl back




I want both Cass and Steph back. Cancel this book and gimme a team book with them.


----------



## Glued (Nov 9, 2011)

The Future has changed,...yes. The Autobots lose, Evil triumphs and Cassandra Cain... CASSANDRA CAIN NO LONGER EXISTS!!!

Seriously though, is she getting a cameo?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Nov 9, 2011)




----------



## Petes12 (Nov 9, 2011)

Yeah... it never surprises me when guest characters job but it is annoying.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 9, 2011)

that doesn't even remotely surprise me. Batwoman's great in her own right but cass is awesome and had a longer time to build a strong loyalty. 

BTW I have a pretty cool drawing of her done I think but I tried coloring it on the computer and hey it turns out not knowing how to color stuff well is not good with a character who wears almost all black!


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 9, 2011)

Penguin was glorious this week...also Batwoman's art continues to be fantastic


----------



## KizaruTachio (Nov 9, 2011)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> F
> 
> _Teen Titans_ was annoying and Cassie's an even bigger bitch now than she was pre-reboot and fuck a bunch of Tim's new Red Robin costume.
> 
> ...



Not liking Red Hood & The Outlaws  and Tim's new costume but liking  JLI of all things !? 




Demon Knights is okay, it's a little over the place imo. But yeah I agree it's fun.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 9, 2011)

Demon Knights 3 was its best issue.

I remember I was pretty conflicted on this series before the relaunch, seems so silly of me now...


----------



## KizaruTachio (Nov 9, 2011)

This was the best issue like the new storm watch was the best in that it's predecessors were bland and all over the place but now they are staring to pick up and straighten out.


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 9, 2011)

Penance said:


> Man, the dialogue in Batgirl was so bad...





Zen-aku said:


> i am surprised at all the negative word of mouth i hear about that title



I am surprised people kept reading it after the dialogue in chapter 1.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 9, 2011)

Hoping it gets better?


No surprise, really. Cass has always been more popular in fandom. And tumblr fans are pimping her like crazy.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 9, 2011)

Ohio Just Gave Me another Reason To hate it.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 9, 2011)

Reporting in to say Suicide Squad was great. The first issue sucked but I highly recommend you get it. Lets put it this way. Captain Boomerang/10.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 9, 2011)

i've considered picking it up for Harley


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 9, 2011)

At first I was getting it for Harley but it took a serious level in awesome. I'm sure a few members will dislike it because Harley has sex but for those of us who walk under the sun it's pretty good.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 9, 2011)

oh gee wilikers Ms. Quinn has relations, i  dont know if i can handle that


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 10, 2011)

KizaruTachio said:


> This was the best issue like the new storm watch was the best in that it's predecessors were bland and all over the place but now they are staring to pick up and straighten out.



I'd disagree a bit with Demon Knights, which I thought started strong (if a little wild). But Stormwatch has definitely started to hit stride, despite having "okay" art. Looking forwards to Cornell and what he wants to do with this team (Especially for the Midnighter beatdown issue next month!).


----------



## Penance (Nov 10, 2011)

Green Lantern, Agent of SHADE, Demon Knights, and Resurrection Man were all BOSS this week...Haven't gotten my hands on Suicide Squad, yet...


----------



## Platinum (Nov 10, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Penguin was glorious this week...also Batwoman's art continues to be fantastic



Penguin was really good.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 10, 2011)

I keep assuming Kate/Batwoman's skin tone is a artistic choice but her sorta 'Gothic' look is jarring when it clashes with all the other pretty colors.

Unless its suppose to be a small part of the story of how she sleeps all day & she is deathly pale because of it. 

The vampires in "I, Vampire" aren't even as pale as her. 
-------------------------
*EDIT*: She is like as pale as the chick in my avatar. xD. 

- Skin white as snow


----------



## KizaruTachio (Nov 10, 2011)

Green Lantern took this week for me. Didn't pick up penguin though.


----------



## Penance (Nov 10, 2011)

Eh, Suicide Squad was alright, this week...Diablo and King Shark made the issue to me, though...


----------



## Blinky (Nov 10, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> I am surprised people kept reading it after the dialogue in chapter 1.



"THE UPPER BODY STRENGTH OF A *MOTHER*"


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 10, 2011)

well yeah, short for friend I would've thought, isn't that how nonmax comics always shorten that term?


----------



## illmatic (Nov 10, 2011)

yeah petes, 

not everyone lives in America but slang like that shouldn't be too hard to pick up on for people outside of America


----------



## Blinky (Nov 10, 2011)

illmatic said:


> yeah petes,
> 
> not everyone lives in America but slang like that shouldn't be too hard to pick up on for people outside of America



Yeah not American and I've never heard it used in that context before. 

Why should I know all random American phrases ? Posing this question to you btw not the comic itself, considering the vast majority of the audience is American.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 10, 2011)

It's kind of like when you read Bendis Avengers and you see them constantly saying things like 'Tuchas' and you know that what he originally scripted was ass but they can't say that. Or witch instead of bitch.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 10, 2011)

yeah, what petes said


----------



## Blinky (Nov 10, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> It's kind of like when you read Bendis Avengers and you see them constantly saying things like 'Tuchas' and you know that what he originally scripted was ass but they can't say that. Or witch instead of bitch.



It's not that I outright didn't know what was meant it's that I misunderstood. 

Ah you know what I mean.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Nov 10, 2011)

KizaruTachio said:


> Not liking Red Hood & The Outlaws  and Tim's new costume but liking  JLI of all things !?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Didn't realize "okay" all of the sudden meant "liking".


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 10, 2011)

I'm just trying to help explain it blinky


----------



## Blinky (Nov 10, 2011)

Explain my balls. 

Nah I get ya.


----------



## Memos (Nov 10, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Explain my balls.
> 
> Nah I get ya.



Nothing to explain.

Ba-dum-tsh!


----------



## Blinky (Nov 10, 2011)

You'd think you would have learned by now that your jokes are terrible.


----------



## Memos (Nov 10, 2011)

Genius is never appreciated within it's lifetime.

Also, I finally read Red Hood and enjoyed it.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 10, 2011)

you pigdisgusting sexist


----------



## Memos (Nov 10, 2011)

I _obviously_ didn't enjoy Slutfire being a slutty slut. I mean, I'm a man, and I don't stand for that shit from women.

Seriously though, _that's_ what all this fuss was about? Jesus


----------



## Blinky (Nov 10, 2011)

I would make jokes but I just remembered how Irish people are always portrayed as being really stereotypical and how much I rage at that so I'll stay quite.


----------



## Memos (Nov 10, 2011)

But everyone thinks you're Mexican so go for it.

Speaking of, I caught up with Blue Beetle as well. Very good.


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 10, 2011)

Did someone say mexicans?

Oh, it's Memos. :sanji

*inb4 shitty Memos joke attempt*


----------



## Memos (Nov 10, 2011)

I would never joke about you... it would feel so redundant.

You still liking AC, Sage?


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 10, 2011)

Arkham City? Yeah, I loved almost every aspect of it (except the last act which felt rushed)

I'm close to 100%. Those Predator Riddler challenges are hard.


----------



## Memos (Nov 10, 2011)

No, I meant Action Comics


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 10, 2011)

I love Action Comics even more. :33


----------



## Memos (Nov 10, 2011)

I really like how Clark and Lois are now.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 10, 2011)

Memos said:


> But everyone thinks you're Mexican so go for it.
> 
> Speaking of, I caught up with Blue Beetle as well. Very good.



Actually a good few people on this forum thought I was black for a while  

Current or the cancelled series ?


----------



## Memos (Nov 10, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Actually a good few people on this forum thought I was black for a while
> 
> Current or the cancelled series ?



I was one of them 

The current one.

I may go back and read some more of his BB when I get the time.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 10, 2011)

I guess I can't really pass judgement since the current BB is only beginning but I prefer the cancelled one.


----------



## Memos (Nov 10, 2011)

And how would I go about finding out issue numbers and such about the cancelled one?


----------



## Blinky (Nov 10, 2011)

According to wiki it was vol. 8 

jeez in that case it must have been rebooted a lot.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 10, 2011)

Blinky said:


> According to wiki it was vol. 8
> 
> jeez in that case it must have been rebooted a lot.



Keep in mind all of those with the exception of the last three were with other companys as Blue Beetle like the Question wasn't originally a DC creation


----------



## Memos (Nov 10, 2011)

Oh wow, look what I found


----------



## Blinky (Nov 10, 2011)

ARGH GET THAT SHIT AWAY 



Emperor Joker said:


> Keep in mind all of those with the exception of the last three were with other companys as Blue Beetle like the Question wasn't originally a DC creation



Yeees that was it, in fact I  think Dan Garret was never in DC, it switched to Ted in whatever company that wwas which is why Jaime's series is referred to as vol. 2 more.


----------



## Memos (Nov 10, 2011)

Blinky said:


> ARGH GET THAT SHIT AWAY





problem, bro?


----------



## Blinky (Nov 10, 2011)

Iron Beetle.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 10, 2011)

its a Medabot...it even has the fucking Insignia


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 10, 2011)

Smallville. :33


----------



## Blinky (Nov 10, 2011)

lol smallville


----------



## Devil Kings (Nov 12, 2011)

Superboy #3 was fucking lackluster.

They had this hot chick that escaped the prison form #2, took a bath in lava and was just fine. Knew Superboy was part Kryptonian, part human, it even seem her people were enemies of the Kryptonians. Had telekenesis on pretty good level, yet was killed by her touching Superboy.

Oh yes, the chick that was trying to help Superboy is an over powered muscled bound She-Hulk wannabe.

All in all, the issue could have been good, but the author in a rush fucked it up.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 12, 2011)

not really seeing what the big deal is


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 12, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> Superboy #3 was fucking lackluster.
> 
> They had this hot chick that escaped the prison form #2, took a bath in lava and was just fine. Knew Superboy was part Kryptonian, part human, it even seem her people were enemies of the Kryptonians. Had telekenesis on pretty good level, yet was killed by her touching Superboy.
> 
> ...



It wasn't the worst thing in the world. However I will be dropping the title. I thought it had potential at first but the last two issues just didn't tickle my fancy.

I'm not saying its a bad book. Its just okay. Unlike the other okay titles I'm buying there's nothing to really keep me invested. I was never a big Superboy fan (aside from in Infinite Crisis). I don't care about Rose Wilson and I don't care about what happens to anyone in the book.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 12, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> Superboy #3 was fucking lackluster.
> 
> They had this hot chick that escaped the prison form #2, took a bath in lava and was just fine. Knew Superboy was part Kryptonian, part human, it even seem her people were enemies of the Kryptonians. Had telekenesis on pretty good level, yet was killed by her touching Superboy.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't really say Fairchild is a She Hulk rip off...she's a brick yes (or used to be...who know if she's had some major overhaul other than just being able to change back and forth) but she's not really like She Hulk.

I'm not dropping the book though, as I kinda like it

and before somebody complains about the fanservice...this is nowhere near as bad as the stuff in volumes 1 and 2 of Gen13


----------



## Cromer (Nov 12, 2011)

So, got through my comics today.

1. FAIRCHILD, MOTHERFUCKERS!

2. I give up on Resurrection Man.

3. Did Gail Simone's muse get high and drop off the planet or something?

4. I get the feeling Seven Soldiers is being rolled into Stormwatch somehow, though I can't explain why I feel that way.

5. Some writers, like Paul Levitz, can swing from ridiculously awesome to just ridiculous across two books they're writing at the same time.


----------



## Devil Kings (Nov 12, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I wouldn't really say Fairchild is a She Hulk rip off...she's a brick yes (or used to be...who know if she's had some major overhaul other than just being able to change back and forth) but she's not really like She Hulk.
> 
> I'm not dropping the book though, as I kinda like it
> 
> and before somebody complains about the fanservice...this is nowhere near as bad as the stuff in volumes 1 and 2 of Gen13



I was always a fan of the Super books, so like yourself am not dropping it either. I just felt disappointed with this issue.

The alien chic could have been made into Superboy first true rival, especially with her abilities. She could have been use as a catalyst for Superboy when it comes to Krypton.

Her character had potential, and she was killed off so easily.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 14, 2011)

Darksied...........is?




EDIT: This is from issue #4 of JL


----------



## Blinky (Nov 14, 2011)

Well Darkseid will be at the climax of the arc so that's expected I guess. Although he should be shown a bit before then.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 14, 2011)

even though they say hes in issue 4 i'm expecting that to be the end of issue 3.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 14, 2011)

Oh wait issue 4 ? Well that's not too long.


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 14, 2011)

Why does Jim Lee still get design work?  

He's awful.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 14, 2011)

Cause he is the BOSS


----------



## Bluebeard (Nov 14, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Darksied...........is?
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: This is from issue #4 of JL



New Darkseid looks incredibly lame.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 14, 2011)

waist up is fine. don't think its really that bad.

more importantly liefeld is both drawing and WRITING hawk and dove 6 in a comic that will 'change the way we see gotham forever' 

also gentleman ghost in hawkman. Gentleman ghost will always be funny to me, even having never read anything with him, but that they're doing some kind of serious looking take based on the cover makes it funnier


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 14, 2011)

As the largest Darkseid fanboy here, I declare the design perfectly fine.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 14, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> New Darkseid looks incredibly lame.



Eh the shoulder pads are a bit much and wonky looking but other than that he actually looks pretty good.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 14, 2011)

No more miniskirt, though I don't think Lee quite executed the Omega symbolism. That's my biggest problem in the whole design. Otherwise, I can't see anything wrong with it outside of "it's new".


----------



## illmatic (Nov 14, 2011)

*Ch-Ch-Changes At The DCU For February*

*Spoiler*: __ 





> Rob Liefeld writing and drawing an issue of Hawk And Dove! With Batman in it! With big bat thighs that are wider than? Dove.
> 
> Federico Dallacchio off Suicide Squad!
> 
> ...





Via


----------



## KizaruTachio (Nov 14, 2011)

While I do like it, it seems some of the Jack Kirbyness was sucked out of it.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Nov 14, 2011)

Darkseid I mean.


----------



## Glued (Nov 14, 2011)

Darkseid has 90s EXTREME!!!

I like it.


----------



## Penance (Nov 14, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Darksied...........is?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



DarkSid...


----------



## KizaruTachio (Nov 14, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Darkseid has 90s EXTREME!!!
> 
> I like it.



Not enough Spikes.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 14, 2011)

the biggest problem by far with that picture isn't his 'costume'. it's his freaky weird body, like his midsection was removed or something.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 14, 2011)

> Cliff Chiang off Wonder Woman!



 

Haha wait Liefeld is going to be writing H&D now? And it will have Batman in it? Jesus I have to read that trainwreck.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 14, 2011)

I just saw the January solicits...is Nightwing going back to blue, by any chance?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 14, 2011)

no that book's colorist is just a fucking dipshit who can't figure out that blue highlighting on black is a terrible idea when the costume is black and red.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 14, 2011)

fuck I hope Chiang is only off for an issue and not entirely


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 14, 2011)

for now im assuming its the usual artist break


----------



## Devil Kings (Nov 14, 2011)

In this reboot Dc has a good thing going for them. For once there comics are actually selling, but i feel with this new changes in staff they'll start going back to mostly mediocre stories, because the dynamic will be thrown off too much and too soon.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 14, 2011)

> *RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #6*
> Written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> Art and cover by KENNETH ROCAFORT
> On sale FEBRUARY 15 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T
> How did Jason Todd and Princess Koriand’r of Tamaran meet – and what has bonded them together in a way that neither could have imagined? At long last the story can be told! It’s a scorcher!



Starfire arc could interesting


----------



## illmatic (Nov 15, 2011)

> Over the past few days, we’ve been linking to all of the exclusive previews of the third issues from DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 that are going on sale tomorrow.
> 
> Below, take a look at all the previews that ran (sorted alphabetically and separated by cover), compiled here in one easy location for your convenience.


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 16, 2011)

Jim Lee is not a designer.

It's not that crappy, but it ain't cool looking either.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 16, 2011)

All these creative shake ups are making me nervous. Hopefully most of them are just temporary breaks. I remember talking to parallax about this, but one of the things that makes a good run into a great run for me is when you have a good artist that's consistently on the title.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 16, 2011)

writer changes are a lot worse. what's even the point really of continuing books like men of war or voodoo when you get rid of the writer?


----------



## Whimsy (Nov 16, 2011)

Yeah, although artist changes can be really annoying, sudden writer changes are likely to be absolutely fatal.


----------



## Mael (Nov 16, 2011)

Chiang off WW? 

Darkseid emerges. 

FLASH IS UNTOUCHED! pek


----------



## Parallax (Nov 16, 2011)

honestly of all the changes I'm shocked (but pleased) that Flash is getting none.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Nov 16, 2011)

Oh Aquaman you so badass.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 16, 2011)

The only comics I'm bothering with this week are Birds of Prey, Batman, and Justice League. Anything else can wait till Saturday.


----------



## Mael (Nov 16, 2011)

Justice League simply b/c of Darkseid.  Really...that's it.


----------



## Penance (Nov 16, 2011)

Wonder Woman and Green Lantern Corps, mostly...I guess Batman, too...

(I'll check out Outlaws for the lulz...)


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 16, 2011)

Batman was excellent. Wonder Woman was good too. Justice League was 'eh'.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 16, 2011)

I really liked Batman and Wonder Woman

Justice League is what is and at least it does that well enough.

Plus I'm always up for more new Jim Lee art.


----------



## Penance (Nov 16, 2011)

Blue Beetle wasn't too bad.  

Batman was GOOD
Wonder Woman and Green Lantern Corps were BOSS
Red Hood and the Outlaws was OKAY 
Justice League was MEH

I may drop Supergirl, completely...


----------



## Mael (Nov 16, 2011)

What happened to Supergirl?  I though the first issue showed so much promise.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 16, 2011)

Nothing's wrong with it, seems like a perfectly decent comic.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Nov 16, 2011)

Red Hood making me sad , and in a good way not a bad one ? :33

The memory  surfing really was the highlight of the issue.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 16, 2011)

Justice League 

_*Wonder Woman/Diana appears*_

Barry: uh... wow
Hal: dibs

Clark: Your strong
Diana: I know


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 16, 2011)

Is Red Hood any good this week?


----------



## Platinum (Nov 16, 2011)

Red Hood was pretty decent this week.


----------



## Superstars (Nov 16, 2011)

So with the reboot does that mean Batman killing certain criminals in Detective comics won't be canon anymore?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 16, 2011)

when did he ever kill anyone


----------



## Penance (Nov 16, 2011)

So Dick was still with the circus five years 'ago'?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 16, 2011)

Pretty good week...Supergirl is good, Wonder Woman is good, Green Lantern Corp was decent, Justice League was Decent...I surprisingly liked Red Hood this week



Superstars said:


> So with the reboot does that mean Batman killing certain criminals in Detective comics won't be canon anymore?



The Golden Age Bat comics haven't exactly been canon for a while now man.



Penance said:


> So Dick was still with the circus five years 'ago'?



Damn, Bruce sure goes through robin's fast doesn't he.


----------



## Mael (Nov 16, 2011)

I still can't get myself to like Jason Todd, damn it.

You're right about JL being ok.  My Darkseid fandom tried to block it out, but in the end it was mediocre at best.



Emperor Joker said:


> Damn, Bruce sure goes through robin's fast doesn't he.



Wally West speaks no lies.


----------



## Platinum (Nov 16, 2011)

He burned through them at an average of 1.66 years per robin.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 16, 2011)

JL is meh, mostly because it has a lot of Wonder Woman and Geoff Johns just can't write an interesting Wonder Woman.

Wonder Woman is good, not great. I do like the explanation as to why they told her she was made of clay, but this a down issue in the arc, to be honest.

Supergirl was okay, but it needs to speed up and start establishing her. It feels like we are treading water with the focus on fighting here. I'll give it another issue to clear up because I can feel the potential here, but it needs to start executing.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 16, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Is Red Hood any good this week?



Red hood is Always Good 

thogh GLC is were its at


----------



## Penance (Nov 17, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Red hood is Always Good
> 
> *thogh GLC is were its at*



Might've been the best thing this week...


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 17, 2011)

nope batman


----------



## Penance (Nov 17, 2011)

Nope...

But regardless, it's the best team book this week


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 17, 2011)

that would make its only competition JL and Awful Academy so yeah ok. 

I liked issue one of GLC but I haven't really cared about the others at all. It's just like a really by the numbers war story.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 17, 2011)

I have a feeling that however the bad guys power their shit is going to be how the GL's power their shit after the guardians ditch them for a 3rd army. So I figure its best to keep reading.

GLC is a strange one. It's adequate all across the board. The characters are adequate, the plot is adequate, the pacing is adequate, and the art is adequate. There's nothing excellent or bad about it.

JL was alright. It was just one of those set-up chapters that don't make for awesomeness, but aren't bad either. Batman was great as usual. 

Wondy bored me. Wondy isn't a miracle, her friends hate her, she hates them, and I'm sure by the end of it everything will be peachy. Maybe if I were a bigger fan of Wonder Woman I'd care more. However even in the Bruce Timmverse she was never my favorite. I'd imagine shit will hit the fan by issue 5. I'll give it one or two issues to see how it pans out


----------



## Taleran (Nov 17, 2011)

Wonder Woman was the only thing I read and was pretty great, it will be annoying if Cliff leaves the book full time.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 17, 2011)

i think we should place bets on how long until taleran breaks down and reads batman


----------



## Blinky (Nov 17, 2011)

Batman was fucking great.


----------



## Mael (Nov 17, 2011)

Isn't Batman ALWAYS great?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 17, 2011)




----------



## Blinky (Nov 17, 2011)

Considering his two other ongoing books are poo poo I think not. 

Oh and there's Odyssey.... but the less said about that the better


----------



## Mael (Nov 17, 2011)

Did Amanda Waller just become an orca?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 17, 2011)

it's a terrible batman villain


----------



## Blinky (Nov 17, 2011)

An orca with tits is a Batman villian?


----------



## Glued (Nov 17, 2011)

Orca is awesome, however didn't killer croc murder her?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 17, 2011)

And it had Batman in his whaling costume!

she is later killed off-screen.

Finding a picture of her saying "I think not!" was too perfect an answer to Mael's question! It was serendipitous


----------



## Glued (Nov 17, 2011)

Batman has a whaling costume...he must pay.

Its is bad enough that he uses anti shark repellent that makes sharks explode.


----------



## Mael (Nov 17, 2011)

Blinky said:


> An orca with tits is a Batman villian?



So it was Amanda Waller...or a Waller clone?


----------



## The Big G (Nov 17, 2011)

Red Hood and the Outlaws was fun


----------



## Penance (Nov 17, 2011)

Mael said:


> Did Amanda Waller just become an orca?



Waller's not fat, though...


----------



## Glued (Nov 17, 2011)

Anthromorphic whales are awesome.


----------



## Mael (Nov 17, 2011)

Penance said:


> Waller's not fat, though...



Yeah...right. 

Waller vs. The Kingpin.

Place your bets.


----------



## Glued (Nov 17, 2011)

Classic Fisk was a monster, able to crush human skulls with his bare hands clapping.

Fisk is what Bane wishes he could be.


----------



## Glued (Nov 17, 2011)

Check out this made by nachomoo on deviantart


----------



## Memos (Nov 17, 2011)

I'll probably get some funny looks from people for this, but Red Hood is turning out to be one of my favourites of the reboot.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 17, 2011)

OBAMACTIVATE 

oh wait that did nothing 



Memos said:


> I'll probably get some funny looks from people for this, but Red Hood is turning out to be one of my favourites of the reboot.



People should know by now that you're terrible.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 17, 2011)

Red Hood, besides the self-righteous outrage at the first issue, has been shifting towards good stuff. All of Lobdell's stuff has been pretty good so far; he's probably my biggest writer surprise of the reboot.


----------



## Platinum (Nov 17, 2011)

Yeah I like it as well. It's not a revolutionary work but it's an entertaining read. 

The dialogue is still pretty hit and miss though.


----------



## Mael (Nov 17, 2011)

It's not really just the dialogue, but Todd's very character.  He still screams overpowered frat boy to me.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 17, 2011)

I think that is what he is supposed to be.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 17, 2011)

I hate it when writers pull that whole *person who lives outside of America so they think it's a magical wonderland* thing. I mean if he's all trendy and stuff I imagine he would have turned on a TV a few times before.


----------



## Whimsy (Nov 18, 2011)

He looks like he got dressed by this guy


----------



## Glued (Nov 18, 2011)

"America is like wonderland"

I can deal with the fact he is gay.

But what I cannot deal with is that...he's takin our jerbs!!!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 18, 2011)

Yea count me in on the "red hood's decent and getting better" crowd. It had thathuge misstep in issue 1, but the last 2 issues were fine.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 18, 2011)

Blinky said:


> I hate it when writers pull that whole *person who lives outside of America so they think it's a magical wonderland* thing. I mean if he's all trendy and stuff I imagine he would have turned on a TV a few times before.



You sound like you haven't lived outside the States before.


----------



## Mael (Nov 18, 2011)

Taleran said:


> I think that is what he is supposed to be.



And that doesn't help me one bit.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 18, 2011)

Cromer said:


> You sound like you haven't lived outside the States before.



I live in rural Ireland and I've seen this sort of thing done with Irish people all the time. 

It's just pretty funny because I have never encountered a person who thought the US was super magical or whatever, always comes off as wishful thinking.


----------



## mali (Nov 18, 2011)

Redhood is getting better and better IMO and the art is pretty good.

Animal Man, Demon Knights and Red Lanterns being awesome as usual.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 18, 2011)

Red hood was Always Awesome


----------



## Cromer (Nov 19, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Red hood was Always Awesome


So you say


----------



## Mael (Nov 19, 2011)

Because no one else will post it. 

And Flash again proves he's awsum.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 19, 2011)

I posted this over a week ago 



illmatic said:


> _Here's an exclusive look at The Flash #3. The Flash is still getting the hang of new powers he's unlocking but doesn't have time for a trial run - he's got a plane full of people to save. Get a look at this exciting upcoming release today._


----------



## Mael (Nov 19, 2011)

STFU ill. 

But thanks for reminding me.  Anyway Flash can do no wrong atm.


----------



## Glued (Nov 19, 2011)

Flash has already retconned the entire Universe in an attempt to bring back his mommy. Flash has bought back Darkseid.

He has turned Power Girl into "That white girl."
He put Spoiler on the backburner
He probably retconned Abuse from existence
He destroys Superman's marriage


I would honestly like to see Flash do worse. I would like to see Flash do more wrong than he already has. Is it possible in any way shape or form for The Flash to do more wrong?


----------



## Parallax (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes

he could kill Aquaman


----------



## Blinky (Nov 19, 2011)

It seems that, to Ben, Flash and Didio are synonymous.


----------



## Glued (Nov 19, 2011)

Not really, but Flash was the story device used to reboot DC.

Thank you Barry Allen.

PS: I'm not being 100% serious.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 19, 2011)

I know, I'm not that stupid.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Nov 19, 2011)

Blinky said:


> I know, I'm not that stupid.


----------



## Devil Kings (Nov 19, 2011)

JL#3 was awesome.

I love the way Superman and Wonder Woman are being written so far.

Diana's like a kid first time on the playground, while Superman's the tough guy that's just wrecking shit for shits and giggles.

Also it seems that Darkseid still look the same in the vision vick had when he became Cyborg.

Am tanking the armor Darkseid is being shown wearing, may be his war armor or something.

Can't wait for #4.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 20, 2011)

Batman The Dark Knight plot reminds of the Rocksteady Arkham stories.

I don't mind the White Rabbit character.  First Riruka and now this.  The bunny look has my approval.


----------



## Mael (Nov 21, 2011)

Two days until new Flash! pek


----------



## Gunners (Nov 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Flash has already retconned the entire Universe in an attempt to bring back his mommy. Flash has bought back Darkseid.
> 
> He has turned Power Girl into "That white girl."
> He put Spoiler on the backburner
> ...



All in all, he put Spiderman to shame.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 22, 2011)

Damn.  New Birds of Prey is awesome.


----------



## Memos (Nov 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Flash has already retconned the entire Universe in an attempt to bring back his mommy. Flash has bought back Darkseid.
> 
> He has turned Power Girl into "That white girl."
> He put Spoiler on the backburner
> ...



Flash will be the next Hal Jordan. he'll go crazy, absorb the speed force and wreck the universe in so many ways.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 22, 2011)

that was flashpoint


----------



## Memos (Nov 22, 2011)

But he was still good then and it was all an accident.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 22, 2011)

> Over the past few days, we’ve been linking to all of the exclusive previews of the third issues from DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 that are going on sale tomorrow.
> 
> Below, take a look at all the previews that ran (sorted alphabetically and separated by cover), compiled here in one easy location for your convenience.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 22, 2011)

Nice cover for Batman: The Dark Knight.  Suits me perfectly.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 22, 2011)

You seem to be the only person i've talked to that actually likes The Dark Knight


----------



## Rukia (Nov 22, 2011)

Woah.  When did I claim that?  I commented on it and admitted that the current plot seems very similar to Arkham City.

I'm not blown away by it.  But I'm willing to give it a chance.

I subscribed to five DC comics.  The Dark Knight is not one of them.


----------



## typhoon72 (Nov 22, 2011)

Rukia said:


> I subscribed to five DC comics.  The Dark Knight is not one of them.



But Aquaman better be


----------



## Rukia (Nov 22, 2011)

Aquaman?  Are you fucking high?


----------



## Cromer (Nov 22, 2011)

Rukia said:


> Aquaman?  Are you fucking high?




Aquman's good. 


But you had better be subscribed to Animal Man and Demon Knights. Otherwise...


----------



## Castiel (Nov 22, 2011)

oh yeah never posted my buying list

Batman
Action Comics
The Flash
Batwoman
Demon Knight


I still read a bunch of them but those are the ones I'm paying for, though if I get the chance I'd probably add Animal Man to that list


----------



## Rukia (Nov 22, 2011)

Batman
Justice League
Birds of Prey
Justice League Dark
Action Comics


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 22, 2011)

those are all pretty good

theres a lot of good stuff to choose from


----------



## Glued (Nov 22, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Aquman's good.
> 
> 
> But you had better be subscribed to Animal Man and Demon Knights. Otherwise...



Yeah I like how Geoff is highlighting Aquaman's connection to the land. You don't always hear about Thomas Curry and his role in Aquaman's life. 

The previews suggest Queen-Mother Atlanna is still alive, somewhere in the Ocean.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 22, 2011)

> ANIMAL MAN VOL. 1 TP
> Writer: Jeff Lemire
> Artists: Travel Foreman, Jeff Huet and John Paul Leon
> Collects: ANIMAL MAN #1-6
> $14.99 US, 144 pg



I am so waiting for this since you save money as 2.99 * 6 is 17.94


> BATWOMAN VOL. 1: HYDROLOGY HC
> Writers: J.H. Williams III and W. Haden Blackman
> Artist: J.H. Williams III
> Collects: BATWOMAN #0-5
> $22.99 US, 144 pg



This if i didn't already own the issues


----------



## typhoon72 (Nov 22, 2011)

Rukia said:


> Batman
> Justice League
> Birds of Prey
> Justice League Dark
> Action Comics



No All Star Western . Shame on you.


----------



## Jedah Dohma (Nov 22, 2011)

Aquaman needs more love. D;
Never liked the character much before, and I still manage to enjoy it more than most of the stuff DC is putting out.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 22, 2011)

> ANIMAL MAN VOL. 1 TP



You will be mine.


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 22, 2011)

Rukia said:


> Aquaman?  Are you fucking high?



Aquaman is one of the best of the new 52. 

But you buy Action Comics, so that's good.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 23, 2011)

Rukia said:


> Batman
> Justice League
> Birds of Prey
> Justice League Dark
> Action Comics



Needs some Flash, and Brian Blessed Vandal Savage eating dinosaurs (Demon Knights).


----------



## Glued (Nov 23, 2011)

Not to mention Frankenstein: Agent of Shade.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 23, 2011)

DC is putting out a surprisingly high number of good books; difficult to go wrong with your $30 any which way.

Any way, my buy list (as opposed my read list )


Static Shock
Animal Man
Action Comics
Wonder Woman
Blue Beetle
Batman & Robin
Nightwing (testing my patience...)
Demon Knights
I, Vampire
Justice Leagueark


All others are as opportune, or merely read-to keep up. I will add Swamp Thing and Batman in the next two months or so, funds willing.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 23, 2011)

I've read the first two issues of Batman.  And so far I like what I am reading.  The writing was solid in both issues.  "The Gotham is" and "Wayne Tower" story lines were compelling.  The art is pretty good.  Better than a lot of Batman art that I have encountered.  That's for sure.

And the whole Court of Owls thing interests me.  Is it original?  No, not at all.  But I'm curious to see where this is all headed.


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Needs some Flash, and Brian Blessed Vandal Savage eating dinosaurs (Demon Knights).



I agree with this so much.

Especially on reading VANDAL SAVAGE BEING AWESOME: The Comic


----------



## Rukia (Nov 23, 2011)

Suicide Squad.  Is anyone reading it?


----------



## Slice (Nov 23, 2011)

I read the first issue and was not impressed. Never looked into the following issues.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 23, 2011)

you should also read Swamp Thing it's by the same guy who is currently writing Batman


----------



## Rukia (Nov 23, 2011)

Parallax said:


> you should also read Swamp Thing it's by the same guy who is currently writing Batman


Good writing so far, don't you think?


----------



## Penance (Nov 23, 2011)

I actually liked this issue of Firestorm...


----------



## Cromer (Nov 23, 2011)

Slice said:


> I read the first issue and was not impressed. Never looked into the following issues.



One comic where the 1st issue should just be thrown out when they aare collecting the TP. No. 2 onwards and it takes a sudden upswing in quality.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Nov 23, 2011)

Ye I get it nobody respects Aquaman gawd.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 23, 2011)

Cromer said:


> One comic where the 1st issue should just be thrown out when they aare collecting the TP. No. 2 onwards and it takes a sudden upswing in quality.


So you recommend Suicide Squad?


----------



## Penance (Nov 23, 2011)

This Just In: Police Subdue Creature from the Depths; Aquaman Helps


----------



## Rukia (Nov 23, 2011)

Rob said:


> Ye I get it nobody respects Aquaman gawd.


Aquaman respects Aquaman.  He thinks he should lead the Justice League, remember?


----------



## Cromer (Nov 23, 2011)

Rukia said:


> So you recommend Suicide Squad?



Let's just say this could, if the current trend keeps up, rank up there with Ostrander's run in quality, 1st issue crap aside.

But I'm not buying it anymore, y'know? Limited funds mean only stuff I absolutely adore remains on my pull.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 23, 2011)

Suicide Squad is really no Secret Six


----------



## Cromer (Nov 23, 2011)

Penance said:


> This Just In: Police Subdue Creature from the Depths; Aquaman Helps



Geoff Johns' not giving up that inane metafictional story that's 20+ years outta date? 


Rukia said:


> Aquaman respects Aquaman.  He thinks he should lead the Justice League, remember?


HAIL THE EMPRAH!


----------



## Cromer (Nov 23, 2011)

illmatic said:


> Suicide Squad is really no Secret Six




Of course it's not; different kettle of fish, is Simone's merry bunch.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 23, 2011)

Suicide Squad has an interesting premise.  The government hires villains for tasks that are too dangerous for regular soldiers.  The military is under a microscope more and more these days.  The military has never been more transparent.  If the military sends soldiers on a mission that has a low probability for success... questions will inevitably follow.  Maybe even resignations and indictments.

I also am vaguely reminded of those films that feature criminals fighting to the death for their freedom.

I think Suicide Squad has a ton of potential based on the premise alone.  So I definitely want to check it out.


----------



## Penance (Nov 23, 2011)

Oh, The Flash #3...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 23, 2011)

Rukia said:


> Suicide Squad.  Is anyone reading it?



The first issue isn't so good, but it goes up from there I personally liked issue 3


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 24, 2011)

Bunker is fabulous

Pity the art is so horrible.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 24, 2011)

So I read suicide squad.  And personally, I'm pretty impressed.  Its a great change of pace from the other books I am reading.  Diablo is annoying; he has to go.  But other than that, I am interested in these characters and I am interesting in the predicament they find themselves in.

Thinking about adding another subscription.


----------



## Penance (Nov 24, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Bunker is fabulous
> 
> Pity the art is so horrible.



I'll eat most of my words on teen titans-but it's mostly DC's Runaways, and I still can't see myself buying this...


----------



## Taleran (Nov 24, 2011)

I find it kinda funny how Lobdell is throwing casual references to Morrison Doom Patrol in his books with the latest being Danny the Street in Teen Titans #3

I don't understand the point of it.


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 24, 2011)

Rukia said:


> Aquaman respects Aquaman.  He thinks he should lead the Justice League, remember?



He should lead the Justice League.

He's already king of 70% of Earth.


----------



## Memos (Nov 24, 2011)

SageMaster said:


> He should lead the Justice League.
> 
> *He's already king of 70% of Earth.*



Yeah, but... you know.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 24, 2011)

All I know is now that Darkseid pissed off Aquaman he's fucked. It'll be like that time Squirrel Girl defeated Thanos.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 24, 2011)

Unfortunately, the Justice League is a universal force.  Not an earth force.  The earth may be covered in water, but it's been established that water is actually an incredibly scarce resource in the universe.  Aquaman would be ineffective at times.

They should probably make the safe choice and just let Wonder Woman lead.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 24, 2011)

They should just go with the Bruce Timmverse dynamic. Superman leads the league aside from Batman, who leads Superman.

Wonder Woman leading would be a train wreck. So would anyone aside from Batman at this point tbh.


----------



## Memos (Nov 24, 2011)

Hal should lead.

What could go wrong?


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 24, 2011)

Hal: Note to self team; We can handle anything.
Darkseid: Omega effect lulz.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 24, 2011)




----------



## Cromer (Nov 25, 2011)

So you finally got round to my favourite book?


----------



## Cromer (Nov 25, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> They should just go with the Bruce Timmverse dynamic. Superman leads the league aside from Batman, who leads *himself*.



Fixed for more truthiness. Only in Weisman's YJ does Batman do any leading of Superman. And this is the guy who gave us David Xanatos, so...


----------



## SageMaster (Nov 25, 2011)

Rukia said:


> Unfortunately, the Justice League is a universal force.  Not an earth force.  The earth may be covered in water, but it's been established that water is actually an incredibly scarce resource in the universe.  Aquaman would be ineffective at times.
> 
> They should probably make the safe choice and just let Wonder Woman lead.



Serious response to a non serious post. 

Finally read this week's comics. Flash continues being one of the best books while Aquaman and Western are awesome


----------



## Rukia (Nov 25, 2011)

Cromer said:


> So you finally got round to my favourite book?


Who finally got around to it?  I read it weeks ago!  The problem is that I find myself constantly re-reading it.  Seriously guys.  Birds of Prey is fucking awesome.



SageMaster said:


> Flash continues being one of the best books


Flash is the shit.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 25, 2011)

Holy shit. I forgot to buy The Flash. Brb.


----------



## Memos (Nov 25, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Holy shit. I forgot to buy The Flash. Brb.



I bet he'll be back in a... flash.


----------



## Whimsy (Nov 25, 2011)

Memos said:


> I bet he'll be back in a... flash.



:rimshot        .


----------



## Taleran (Nov 25, 2011)

This is gonna be a really funny week for DC because this month has 5 Wednesday gonna be a light week.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 25, 2011)

Meh, gonna catch up with Warlord of Mars and Dejah Thoris instead.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 25, 2011)

This part was really fucking funny too!


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 26, 2011)

Stupid Flash and its stupid quality and its stupid Captain Cold cocktease and its stupid suspense. Does DC realize I have to wait a month for the next issue?


----------



## Devil Kings (Nov 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Stupid Flash and its stupid quality and its stupid Captain Cold cocktease and its stupid suspense. Does DC realize I have to wait a month for the next issue?



 Just as planned.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 26, 2011)

you all doubted me when I said flash was awesome


----------



## Glued (Nov 26, 2011)

Rukia said:


> This part was really fucking funny too!



Oh King Shark, what have they done to you?


----------



## Platinum (Nov 26, 2011)

Enjoyed this aquaman issue .


----------



## Parallax (Nov 26, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> you all doubted me when I said flash was awesome



I'll admit it I was wrong to doubt you


----------



## Rukia (Nov 26, 2011)

Wonder Woman is also awesome.


----------



## mali (Nov 26, 2011)

New Guardians 
Red Lanterns
Animal Man
Demon Kinghts
Flash
Deadman 
Captain Atom

Dope as shit.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 26, 2011)

Rukia said:


> Wonder Woman is also awesome.



Told ya (erm I think it was you anyway) 

I haven't read Flash before the relaunch but was that guy sitting on the tank Trickster?


----------



## Slice (Nov 26, 2011)

A friend of mine likes light hearted Superhero stories. So i said he should read Animal Man since it is about a "normal" married with 2 children guy that can channel animal powers and fights crime with it.

I'm exited what his opinion on it will be :ho


----------



## Slice (Nov 26, 2011)

Oh also i read I, Vampire (1-3) because somebody recommended it to me and i am positively impressed. They should get someone else to draw the cover artworks though - these are horrible.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 26, 2011)

Slice said:


> A friend of mine likes light hearted Superhero stories. So i said he should read Animal Man since it is about a "normal" married with 2 children guy that can channel animal powers and fights crime with it.
> 
> I'm exited what his opinion on it will be :ho



haha that's kind of mean. but also good for him


----------



## Mael (Nov 26, 2011)

Fuckin' Flash. 

I know he's not Wally and I won't get my Linda Park (yet), but the rest of the schlubs need to take notes on how it's done. 

Lollerskates:


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 26, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Told ya (erm I think it was you anyway)
> 
> I haven't read Flash before the relaunch but was that guy sitting on the tank Trickster?



Looks to be, his pants are the same color costume that Trickster wears


----------



## Cromer (Nov 26, 2011)

Slice said:


> A friend of mine likes light hearted Superhero stories. So i said he should read Animal Man since it is about a "normal" married with 2 children guy that can channel animal powers and fights crime with it.
> 
> I'm exited what his opinion on it will be :ho





You, sir, are a _mean, mean_ man. And awesome too.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 26, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Looks to be, his pants are the same color costume that Trickster wears



So this guy's shtick is that he leaves traps around and stuff right? Considering haw fucking powerful Flash is in the latter years how does Trickster compete with him?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 26, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Told ya (erm I think it was you anyway)
> 
> I haven't read Flash before the relaunch but was that guy sitting on the tank Trickster?



yeah its him


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 26, 2011)

Blinky said:


> So this guy's shtick is that he leaves traps around and stuff right? Considering haw fucking powerful Flash is in the latter years how does Trickster compete with him?



Trickster has a lot of really really cool gadgets. Like, "Why don't you just patent a few and retire a gazillionaire?" gadgets.

Even so, he's still one of those rogues that can contribute to a rogues scheme, but most likely could never really handle flash on his own like Mirror Master, Cold, or Weather Wizard could.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 26, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Trickster has a lot of really really cool gadgets. Like, "*Why don't you just patent a few and retire a gazillionaire?" gadgets.
> *
> Even so, he's still one of those rogues that can contribute to a rogues scheme, but most likely could never really handle flash on his own like Mirror Master, Cold, or Weather Wizard could.



Flash's rogues were always sort of a gag in that regard. There's a guy who can control weather, a guy who can achieve absolute zero, a guy who has incredibly useful gadgets, and a guy who has effective means of teleportation to name a few. All of it (before the reboot) is tech base. Instead of selling it and becoming legit billionares, they're content with robbing banks.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 26, 2011)

Sounds cool to me actually.


----------



## Mael (Nov 27, 2011)

Funny enough, the Rogues despite their gag-like ways have certainly shown they don't fuck around.  Just look how they dealt with Inertia.


----------



## Memos (Nov 27, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Trickster has a lot of really really cool gadgets. Like, "Why don't you just patent a few and retire a gazillionaire?" gadgets.
> 
> Even so, he's still one of those rogues that can contribute to a rogues scheme, but most likely could never really handle flash on his own like Mirror Master, Cold, or Weather Wizard could.





MrChubz said:


> Flash's rogues were always sort of a gag in that regard. There's a guy who can control weather, a guy who can achieve absolute zero, a guy who has incredibly useful gadgets, and a guy who has effective means of teleportation to name a few. All of it (before the reboot) is tech base. Instead of selling it and becoming legit billionares, they're content with robbing banks.



In the reboot, all of Flash's rogues will actually be smart for once and spend their talents to become insanely rich. They'll then start to influence every level of the media and make Flash out to be a villain and destroy him like that.

Flash will have to run faster than he's ever run to grab every newspaper off the stands before  anyone else can read it. But he'll be too late. One kid will read the propaganda against Flash and hate him forever, eventually growing up to be a rogue himself.


----------



## Glued (Nov 27, 2011)

Memos said:


> In the reboot, all of Flash's rogues will actually be smart for once and spend their talents to become insanely rich. They'll then start to influence every level of the media and make Flash out to be a villain and destroy him like that.
> 
> Flash will have to run faster than he's ever run to grab every newspaper off the stands before  anyone else can read it*. But he'll be too late. One kid will read the propaganda against Flash and hate him forever, eventually growing up to be a rogue himself.*



That is either the dumbest or most awesome plot I have ever read in my entire life.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 27, 2011)

Flash is very pretty.

I still miss Wally, though


----------



## Mael (Nov 27, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Flash is very pretty.
> 
> I still miss Wally, though



We all miss Wally (except maybe Petes ).  And by extension I miss Linda and the future Flash family with Jai and Iris and all that lovely character development.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 27, 2011)

I miss DCAU wally I couldn't care less about the comic book pretender


----------



## Rukia (Nov 27, 2011)

I like Wally better.  But I have to admit that Flash has been great so far.  So it's hard to complain.  Hope the quality continues.


----------



## Slice (Nov 27, 2011)

When in costume Barry and Wally are absolutely interchangeable.
If anything i only miss the supporting cast.


----------



## Mael (Nov 27, 2011)

Rukia said:


> I like Wally better.  But I have to admit that Flash has been great so far.  So it's hard to complain.  Hope the quality continues.



I like Wally better too, but this remake so far has been superb with Barry.



Slice said:


> When in costume Barry and Wally are absolutely interchangeable.
> If anything i only miss the supporting cast.



I've thought this before with some Robins.


----------



## Slice (Nov 27, 2011)

Mael said:


> I've thought this before with some Robins.



Only with Dick and Tim, if Dick would have been introduced today he would be like the Young Justice version.

In costume (and as Robin) the only thing that differs them is the era they were created in and therefore their style.

Damian, Stephanie and Jason though - they are very different.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm not reading Batman and Robin.  But I am sort of curious about Damian.  Dude seems to have a lot of issues.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 27, 2011)

Memos said:


> In the reboot, all of Flash's rogues will actually be smart for once and spend their talents to become insanely rich. They'll then start to influence every level of the media and make Flash out to be a villain and destroy him like that.
> 
> Flash will have to run faster than he's ever run to grab every newspaper off the stands before  anyone else can read it. But he'll be too late. *One kid will read the propaganda against Flash and hate him forever, eventually growing up to be a rogue himself*.



That's awesome. That's Lex Luthor hates Superman because he made him bald and ate his cake level awesome.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 27, 2011)

Rukia said:


> I'm not reading Batman and Robin.  But I am sort of curious about Damian.  Dude seems to have a lot of issues.



Read Grant Morrison's Batman run

he introduces him as a little shit and develops him into this incredibly endearing kid


----------



## Cromer (Nov 27, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Read Grant Morrison's Batman run
> 
> he introduces him as a little shit and develops him into this *incredibly endearing kid*



If you say so 

Damian's entertaining to me for diametrically opposite reasons.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 27, 2011)

I bet they kill him off pretty soon.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 27, 2011)

nah he's too popular

I remember hating him when he first showed up but he's great now.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 27, 2011)

He's popular?  Really?  I honestly had no idea.  Even popular characters get killed off sometimes.  They might kill him off just because they have no idea what to do with him.  Or he will make the crossover to full-time villain...


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 27, 2011)

If DC decides to start offing robins, which I don't doubt could happen, the first one they'll clean out is jason


----------



## Rukia (Nov 27, 2011)

.


----------



## Whimsy (Nov 27, 2011)

Damien definitely isn't getting offed


----------



## Parallax (Nov 27, 2011)

yeah he's pretty well liked.

I hope he's not killed off since he's Morrison's baby

but then again he's a Morrison character so at some point he may be bumped off or forgotten


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 27, 2011)

I honestly think he's the second safest robin after dick grayson. I mean what do you do if you kill damian? put tim back in the robin costume?


----------



## Rukia (Nov 27, 2011)

I think he's definitely a compelling character.  Its just hard to imagine a long term future for him.

Batman Beyond.  There is no Robin.  The mantle could easily be retired.  At least for a little while.  I don't pretend to know where the story is going.  I think its fair to say Bruce would take Damian's death pretty hard.  He would probably revert to his usual destructive tendencies and start working alone completely.  It's not absurd to assume he would be reluctant to bring another Robin into the fold if that were to happen.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 27, 2011)

Rukia said:


> I think he's definitely a compelling character.  Its just hard to imagine a long term future for him.
> 
> Batman Beyond.  There is no Robin.  The mantle could easily be retired.  At least for a little while.  I don't pretend to know where the story is going.  I think its fair to say Bruce would take Damian's death pretty hard.  He would probably revert to his usual destructive tendencies and start working alone completely.  It's not absurd to assume he would be reluctant to bring another Robin into the fold if that were to happen.



the problem with that is, is that Batman Beyond is set on another earth...or at least it was god only knows what else has gotten shifted around since Flashpoint


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 27, 2011)

i don't see what's so hard to imagine about him sticking around. batman beyond has no robin but batman in that series basically is robin.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm not saying there will be no Robin because of Batman Beyond.  Don't misunderstand.  I'm just saying its not impossible to imagine a world without one.


----------



## Memos (Nov 27, 2011)

Ah, Batman Beyond.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 27, 2011)

Explain that image to me.  What is it?  Fan art?


----------



## Glued (Nov 27, 2011)

Rukia said:


> Explain that image to me.  What is it?  Fan art?



They're making a Batman Beyond comic at the moment


----------



## Memos (Nov 27, 2011)

Rukia said:


> Explain that image to me.  What is it?  Fan art?


----------



## Cromer (Nov 27, 2011)

Problem is, it's still Adam Beechen, isn't it?


----------



## Rukia (Nov 27, 2011)

Good cover.  I probably won't read it though.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 27, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Problem is, it's still Adam Beechen, isn't it?



From what i've heard, apparently so.

I'll check the first issue out, maybe this time it will actually be more than just okay


----------



## Cromer (Nov 27, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> From what i've heard, apparently so.
> 
> I'll check the first issue out, maybe this time it will actually be more than just okay



Yeah, I'm giving it the same space to convince me. And what has Fridolfs done, by the way?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 27, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Yeah, I'm giving it the same space to convince me. And what has Fridolfs done, by the way?



Derek Fridolfs? tons of stuff


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 27, 2011)

Oh my goodness its the Justice League beyond. Why is it that future teams like them and leigon suck donkey balls?


----------



## Nightblade (Nov 27, 2011)

where the rest of Barda's legs go?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 27, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Oh my goodness its the Justice League beyond. Why is it that future teams like them and leigon suck donkey balls?



because a) they arent in present continuity so few people give a darn so the books are low priority and b) despite that writers dont really get much creative freedom so no one good even wants to write them


----------



## Rukia (Nov 27, 2011)

Come on.  That's too harsh.  Only half of that Green Lantern's body is showing.  The artist decided to focus on certain areas is all.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 27, 2011)

yeah I like Nguyen. shame he's on some batman beyond nonsense, but i gotta admit his style is well matched to it.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 28, 2011)

The Green lantern looks like some Avater: The last Airbender reject


----------



## Rukia (Nov 28, 2011)

He resembles the future Green Lantern in Justice League Unlimited Episode 26.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 28, 2011)

oh. I can't remember that far back.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> because a) they arent in present continuity so few people give a darn so the books are low priority and b) despite that writers dont really get much creative freedom so no one good even wants to write them


Batman Beyond should have stayed in the Bruce Timmverse and Bruce Timm should have never created JL Beyond. Those guys are terrible even in the show I liked, much less in an irrelevant book (lets face it, it'll never be a canon future) no one cares about.



Rukia said:


> He resembles the future Green Lantern in Justice League Unlimited Episode 26.



That's because he is the GL from that episode, and one or 2 episodes from Batman Beyond. I actually watched an interview about the creation of the JL Beyond. Their reason as to why they made a child GL was pretty much, 'It had to be done sooner or later,'


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 28, 2011)

actually think zen kid GL is kind of a good idea


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 28, 2011)

It's not like any of DC's team books are all that great.  Most of them are total jokes.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Nov 28, 2011)

Given some lanterns are animals and sentient virsus I don't see why there couldn't be kids ?___?

And future stories are hard to write because they usually seem pretty bleak and feel like they invalidate the hard work of characters in the present.

Batman beyond is basically premised on the idea the entire Batman project fell apart. They all retired and Tim was scared for life.

Star Wars expanded unvierse is even worse. In one of the series a mere hundred years after the films it seems like the good jedi have been wiped out and there is a dark with ruling much of the galaxy again. Make the stuff Luke and co do seem ultimately redundant.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 28, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> It's not like any of DC's team books are all that great.  Most of them are total jokes.



Demon Knights is a team book and I think that's fucking great.


----------



## Glued (Nov 28, 2011)

I like Frankenstein, Agent of Shade as well.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 28, 2011)

Ew Beyond. Could never enjoy it.


And I just read Aquaman 3.

We fucking get it, Johns. Aquaman is awesome. Stop with this boo hoo nobody respects him shit. It got old by issue 2.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 28, 2011)

Yea, it really shouldn't be every issue. Especially right after Aquaman does something awesome.

"You just saved my life! Hurr durr fish joke!"

I mean this isn't marvel.


----------



## Memos (Nov 28, 2011)

I didn't think it's too bad so far. This is years and years of derision that has built up and I don't think Aquaman doing a few awesome things will change everyone's minds overnight. They still live in a world where Aquaman is compared to others like Superman and Wonder Woman when it comes to heroics.

Giving him that extra layer of internal conflict will probably play more and more into his choices that he has to make as the story progresses. Also, turning around people's perceptions doesn't really work with a chapter or two, at least for people that didn't already know how awesome he is.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 28, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, it really shouldn't be every issue. Especially right after Aquaman does something awesome.
> 
> "You just saved my life! Hurr durr fish joke!"
> 
> I mean this isn't marvel.



DC rightly wants to be marvel though.


----------



## Penance (Nov 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> DC rightly wants to be marvel though.



Yeah, they haven't had nearly as many "crises"...


----------



## Mael (Nov 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> DC rightly wants to be marvel though.



I'd prefer they not, please.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 28, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> DC rightly wants to be marvel though.



Ha yea, I thought of that when I was typing that.



Memos said:


> I didn't think it's too bad so far. This is years and years of derision that has built up and I don't think Aquaman doing a few awesome things will change everyone's minds overnight. They still live in a world where Aquaman is compared to others like Superman and Wonder Woman when it comes to heroics.



Aquaman shouldn't have years and years of derision in the DCU. The common man here hates on aquaman because they know him as that guy who talks to fish and the lame dude on superfriends.

In the DCU aquaman is an actual superhero who fights crime and fucks shit up. People shouldn't have THAT bad of an opinion of him.


----------



## Memos (Nov 28, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Ha yea, I thought of that when I was typing that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I meant the "years and years of derision" part mostly from outside the comics.

The 52 supposedly being as much of a comic for fans as they are a viable jumping on point for non-readers means the new readers have to be addressed too. Most non-readers have this kind of joke as their reference point for the character.

BTW, your set got me to read Infinite Vacation. Awesome comic.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 28, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Ew Beyond. Could never enjoy it.
> 
> 
> And I just read Aquaman 3.
> ...



You can't just go from no one liking him or even understanding his powers to everyone loving him and knowing he's awesome in 3 issues (or in the comic timeline a few hours). Besides one panel of a person being mean to Aquaman isn't killing anyone.


----------



## Mael (Nov 28, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, it really shouldn't be every issue. Especially right after Aquaman does something awesome.
> 
> "You just saved my life! Hurr durr fish joke!"
> 
> I mean this isn't marvel.



Isn't this the same shit we get out of Mr. Terrific?


----------



## Rukia (Nov 28, 2011)

I think DC is succeeding on a very large scale right now.  Most of their animated films have been successes.  The new 52 has so many good books I can't buy them all.  The Dark Knight Rises will suck but will make a lot of money.  It seems like the brand is pretty healthy.  The reboot was definitely risky though.  Starting over at 0 when there are over 800 issues for some of these things... that decision took balls.


----------



## Memos (Nov 28, 2011)

Rukia said:


> I think DC is succeeding on a very large scale right now.  Most of their animated films have been successes.  The new 52 has so many good books I can't buy them all.  The Dark Knight Rises will suck but will make a lot of money.  It seems like the brand is pretty healthy.  The reboot was definitely risky though.  Starting over at 0 when there are over 800 issues for some of these things... that decision took balls.



It was a shame they rebooted before Action Comics became the first comic to hit issue #1000


----------



## Rukia (Nov 28, 2011)

I have over 400 copies of Detective.  The news was very surprising.  But it seems like a necessary evil.  They need to create new fans.  This is the best way to accomplish that.


----------



## Glued (Nov 28, 2011)

Two things grab my attention about the recent Aquaman comics.

1) Thomas Curry implies that Queen Atlanna, Aquaman's mother is alive somewhere in the Ocean.

2) The Professor Shin guy seems to have something to do with Piranhas. He may become Charybdis aka Piranha Man of the series.

During Erik Larsen's run on Aquaman, Charybdis mutilated Queen Atlanna by surgically attaching the body parts of various sea animals to her body. This was an attempt to torture Aquaman by turning his mother into an abomination by using the sea animals that Aquaman cared about.

Charybdis in Peter David's was the one responsible for removing Aquaman's hand.


Anyways Geoff Johns is a repetitive writer and I'm glad Aquaman is going to the bottom the Trench where we won't have to listen to those jokes anymore.

Also its great to see Mera kicking ass.


----------



## Glued (Nov 28, 2011)

Mael said:


> Isn't this the same shit we get out of Mr. Terrific?



Geoff Johns maybe repetitive, but he does have some good points.


I don't know who wrote Mr. Terrific, but the guy is just awful.


----------



## Mael (Nov 28, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Geoff Johns maybe repetitive, but he does have some good points.
> 
> 
> I don't know who wrote Mr. Terrific, but the guy is just awful.



Geoff Johns rocks the house for what he did to revive Wally West's character...plus making ParkWest reality.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 28, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> You can't just go from no one liking him or even understanding his powers to everyone loving him and knowing he's awesome in 3 issues (or in the comic timeline a few hours). Besides one panel of a person being mean to Aquaman isn't killing anyone.



Not with Aquaman proving his badassary every issue. People being afraid of him would make sense. People making fish jokes when he just gutted a couple of walking pirahna only makes them look idiotic. It's a poor writing tactic. "These terrible and ignorant audience stand in who think Aquaman is not super awesome secondary characters are so mean to Aquaman and think he sucks but we know better!" _Please._



Rukia said:


> I think DC is succeeding on a very large scale right now.  Most of their animated films have been successes.  The new 52 has so many good books I can't buy them all.  The Dark Knight Rises will suck but will make a lot of money.  It seems like the brand is pretty healthy.  The reboot was definitely risky though.  Starting over at 0 when there are over 800 issues for some of these things... that decision took balls.



I'll call them successful if they can maintain these numbers.

Until then...

Besides. Batman is the only sccessful movie franchise they have. Green Lantern was a flop and I doubt Superman will do better.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 29, 2011)

Do you really get the impression he's being sold as awesome? Because I still look at it and go, yeah mera's the one with the cool powers being awesome, aquaman's just got his trident

I guess he didn't fall over crying like any normal person would when getting their shoulder mawed, so there's that.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 29, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Not with Aquaman proving his badassary every issue. People being afraid of him would make sense. People making fish jokes when he just gutted a couple of walking pirahna only makes them look idiotic. It's a poor writing tactic. "These terrible and ignorant audience stand in who think Aquaman is not super awesome secondary characters are so mean to Aquaman and think he sucks but we know better!" _Please._



I don't think we read the same comic. All I saw was a misunderstanding about where Aquaman lives between 2 police men, and the Incident Commander being a smartass when Aquaman tried to stop him from giving an order.

Hell they even wanted to paint him in a positive light after seeing him getting his ass kicked.

Edit: Also their animated movies are making a killing.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 29, 2011)

they were still condescending to him chubz


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 29, 2011)

To be fair he did completely get his ass kicked and he wasn't really wanted to begin with. I mean if he saved the day like Superman would have they would have been singing a different tune.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 29, 2011)

Even their niceness had a tone of 'oh, let's just mollify this fail o'suck superhero and get him outta here...' over it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 29, 2011)

Memos said:


> I meant the "years and years of derision" part mostly from outside the comics.
> 
> The 52 supposedly being as much of a comic for fans as they are a viable jumping on point for non-readers means the new readers have to be addressed too. Most non-readers have this kind of joke as their reference point for the character.
> 
> *BTW, your set got me to read Infinite Vacation. Awesome comic.*



Awesome! I actually just read the 3rd issue. It was....wow.

So have you read Morning Glories? That's Spencer's most well received ongoing, and it is miles better than any of his big 2 work.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 29, 2011)

Did anyone read gates of gotham?


----------



## Cromer (Nov 29, 2011)

Rukia said:


> Did anyone read gates of gotham?


That book was a prime example of how outsourcing scripts to lesser writers rarely turns out well.


----------



## Slice (Nov 29, 2011)

It had some nice ideas but wasn't executed very well.
Also that strange Cass / Tim moment at the end...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 29, 2011)

Eh I liked it well enough, and I think Higgins is doing fine with Nightwing. And I forgive the Tim/Cass moment for its awkwardness simply because it was practically teetering on the 4th wall.

Although going into it I didn't expect it to be on par with Snyder's Tec'


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 29, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Do you really get the impression he's being sold as awesome? Because I still look at it and go, yeah mera's the one with the cool powers being awesome, aquaman's just got his trident
> 
> I guess he didn't fall over crying like any normal person would when getting their shoulder mawed, so there's that.



No, he's being sold as the poor misunderstood hero who will prove averybody wrong in the end. I just wish Johns wasn't so obvious about it. 



MrChubz said:


> I don't think we read the same comic. All I saw was a misunderstanding about where Aquaman lives between 2 police men, and the Incident Commander being a smartass when Aquaman tried to stop him from giving an order.
> 
> Hell they even wanted to paint him in a positive light after seeing him getting his ass kicked.
> 
> Edit: Also their animated movies are making a killing.



It wouldn't be bad if it was one scene. But we had the fish joke in issue one, more jokes in issue 2 and yet more jokes in issue 3.

We get it, Aquaman is not respected. Get over it.



Slice said:


> It had some nice ideas but wasn't executed very well.
> *Also that strange Cass / Tim moment at the end...*



*gags*


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 29, 2011)

yeah he is definitely doing that. its still an 'okay' book, but not amazing.

i wonder, how would people rank DC's books in overall quality? if you ranked everything you read.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 29, 2011)

I'd say there are some really good books (Animal Man, WW, Demon Knights, Batman, Batwoman), some okay books (Aquaman, Supergirl, Green Lantern), mediocre books (Batgirl, Blue Beetle) and some badwhatthefuckwereyouthinking ones (Hawk and Dove, Green Arrow, Mr. Terrific).

So DC's quality is... a little higher overall. Though most of the good ones could have been done without rebooting the whole universe.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 29, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I'd say there are some really good books (Animal Man, WW, Demon Knights, Batman, Batwoman), some okay books (Aquaman, Supergirl, Green Lantern), mediocre books (Batgirl, Blue Beetle) and some badwhatthefuckwereyouthinking ones (Hawk and Dove, Green Arrow, Mr. Terrific).
> 
> So DC's quality is... a little higher overall. *Though most of the good ones could have been done without rebooting the whole universe.*



This, but at the same time I suppose I can understand why they did it. My only issues are with some books they rebooted when they really didn't need to be. JLI was perfect under the premise of Generation Lost, and Batgirl...well, I won't get started on batgirl since it's to the choir and i've already said it all before.

GODDAMNIT I WANT STEPH BACK

Okay, now I won't get started.

Also, I pretty much ignored the Tim/Cass moment on the grounds that they would never get together. Cass wouldn't break the bro code


----------



## Rukia (Nov 29, 2011)

Hawk and Dove.


----------



## typhoon72 (Nov 29, 2011)

Really Good: Action, All-Star Western, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, I Vampire
Good: Batman, Flash, Aquaman, Batwoman, Supergirl, GL: New Guardians, JLDark, Voodoo, Demon Knights
Decent: Nightwing, Green Lantern, Teen Titans, Justice League, BoP, Hawkman, Superboy, Tec, Huntress
Mediocre: OMAC, Batman and Robin, Superman, JLI
Bad: Batgirl, Red Hood (only read #1)

Im undecided about Wonder Woman


----------



## Rukia (Nov 29, 2011)

Wonder Woman is really good dude.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 29, 2011)

Issues 2 and 3 (mainly 3) have bumped Red Hood up from disappointment to decent for me.

But overall, there's more good than bad, and quite a few greats. And best of all, its not just that DC has a lot of good books, its that they have a lot of DIFFERENT books.


----------



## typhoon72 (Nov 29, 2011)

Not only that, but (at least for me) DC kind of made me forget about Marvel the last few months. I used to read a lot of their comics. I havent read any Fear Itself BS since August so I dont even know what the hell is going on anymore. The only Marvel I find myself remembering to read is ASM, Wolvie University, Cyke and the Boys, and the Godly X-Force.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 29, 2011)

I gave up on Marvel a long time ago.  I spend a lot of time trying to dissuade people from spending money on their brand.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 29, 2011)

Red Hood got better.

I still think it would have been better as the crazy adventures of Jason, Kory and Roy screwing everybody in the DCU.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Also, I pretty much ignored the Tim/Cass moment on the grounds that they would never get together. Cass wouldn't break the bro code



Cass is too busy being in love with Steph. 



Rukia said:


> Hawk and Dove.



Feast your eyes


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 29, 2011)

Gah I miss Steph and Cass being best bros, and even Steph and (awkward/more likable) Tim being together.


----------



## typhoon72 (Nov 29, 2011)

Rukia said:


> I gave up on Marvel a long time ago.  I spend a lot of time trying to dissuade people from spending money on their brand.



Are you telling me you dont read Uncanny X-Force Rukia? :amazed


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 29, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Gah I miss Steph and Cass being best bros, and even Steph and (awkward/more likable) Tim being together.



THEIR FRIENDSHIP WAS SO BEAUTIFUL

screw you DC for forgetting about it

Tim and Steph were so cute, I could even get past all the bad blood and shit... then he kicked her in the stomach.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 29, 2011)

LMAO.  No idea which characters are even involved in that series.  My tastes evolved.  I've been Marvel-free for over 5 years now.

Is Red Robin worth a look?


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 29, 2011)

Depends. If you like Tim being Speshful Detective I'm So Good Ra's fangirling over me and I'll get all the Hot Chicks, then yes.

If you liked pre wangst Tim, check it for the delicious Marcus To art only.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 29, 2011)

lol.  The art is the only reason its on my radar.  Great Cassandra Cain cover for issue #25.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 29, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> THEIR FRIENDSHIP WAS SO BEAUTIFUL
> 
> screw you DC for forgetting about it
> 
> Tim and Steph were so cute, I could even get past all the bad blood and shit... then he kicked her in the stomach.



Which is why my dream book would be Tim (written in the style of Dixon/Yost, not everyone during OYL/Nicieza), Steph, and Cass just hanging out and kicking ass. Tim and Steph would inevitably have underlying romance stuff, and Cass would be the mutual bro caught in the middle (being the "good listener" that she is).



Rukia said:


> LMAO.  No idea which characters are even involved in that series.  My tastes evolved.  I've been Marvel-free for over 5 years now.
> 
> Is Red Robin worth a look?



And why do you dislike Marvel as a whole? They've got their good books, DC just has more of them. The X franchise in particular is doing really well right now, with my only issue being Greg "pron face" land marring the excellence that is Gillen on UXM.

As for Red Robin don't read any of the issues before Marcus To takes over (unless you really need to to get the story), and keep in mind that the book gets worse when Nicieza takes over (although its still decent).

Basically, Collision is awesome, everything before is meh, everything after is less meh, but still kinda meh.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 29, 2011)

Rukia said:


> lol.  The art is the only reason its on my radar.  Great Cassandra Cain cover for issue #25.



Marcus To is one of the few artists that can draw the whole Bat Family without messing up their ages. Tim looks like a teenager, women look sexy without looking like porn stars, characters don't dress like shit and Damian actually looks like a really fit ten year old instead of... whatever he was in that issue of Teen Titans.

The downside is that he draws very _very_ pretty boys, ten year old included. edobear



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Which is why my dream book would be Tim (written in the style of Dixon/Yost, not everyone during OYL/Nicieza), Steph, and Cass just hanging out and kicking ass. Tim and Steph would inevitably have underlying romance stuff, *and Cass would be the mutual bro caught in the middle (being the "good listener" that she is)*.



popcorn is a must


----------



## typhoon72 (Nov 29, 2011)

Rukia said:


> LMAO.  *No idea which characters are even involved in that series.*  My tastes evolved.  I've been Marvel-free for over 5 years now.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 29, 2011)

Damian is poorly drawn pretty often isn't he?  Sometimes I think I am reading a Curious Case of Benjamin Button graphic novel when I see him.


----------



## Penance (Nov 29, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Marcus To is one of the few artists that can draw the whole Bat Family without messing up their ages. Tim looks like a teenager, women look sexy without looking like porn stars, characters don't dress like shit and *Damian actually looks like a really fit ten year old instead of... whatever he was in that issue of Teen Titans.*



Captain Marvel


----------



## typhoon72 (Nov 29, 2011)

Quietly and McDaniel drew Damien the best 

/Sponge faces aside


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 29, 2011)

Rukia said:


> Damian is poorly drawn pretty often isn't he?  Sometimes I think I am reading a Curious Case of Benjamin Button graphic novel when I see him.



exhibit A





Penance said:


> Captain Marvel



...my screen is very displeased with you right now.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 29, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Marcus To is one of the few artists that can draw the whole Bat Family without messing up their ages. Tim looks like a teenager, women look sexy without looking like porn stars, characters don't dress like shit and Damian actually looks like a really fit ten year old instead of... whatever he was in that issue of Teen Titans.
> 
> The downside is that he draws very _very_ pretty boys, ten year old included. edobear



Frankly I really really love marcus to. By no means is he a groundbeaking or really unique artist, but he gets pretty much everybody right and is overall just incredibly good.

He kind of reminds me of Bagley in that respect.

God damn you Yost why did you have to leave! Yost/To on Red Robin would have carried over into the new52, and would have brought the character back to Dixon levels of greatness. 



> popcorn is a must



*cough*youshoulddrawthis*cough*

Yea, it's a must.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 29, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> Not only that, but (at least for me) DC kind of made me forget about Marvel the last few months. I used to read a lot of their comics. I havent read any Fear Itself BS since August so I dont even know what the hell is going on anymore. The only Marvel I find myself remembering to read is ASM, Wolvie University, Cyke and the Boys, and the Godly X-Force.



yeah it happen to me too, like for example the other day when I went to my store to buy my comics and when I was done I only had money for iron man after I borrowed the money from a friend, idk, is like DC is more exciting for me than what marvel has been cooking lately


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 29, 2011)

Imagine a Cass/Steph book drawn by Marcus To.


----------



## Mael (Nov 29, 2011)

Someone give Gabz the Heimlich...or some water.

I can't really hate on Geoff for what he did for Wally West years ago, but I'll give Aquaman maybe two more issues before the point is driven home.  Then it'll just become a gag.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 29, 2011)

I'd buy that book, gabzilla.  I think its a little disappointing when the good artists get stuck with the poorly written books though.  Wish he were working on something more rewarding.

Example.  Justice League dark has potential.  I do hate the art though.  I find it incredibly mediocre at least.


----------



## Mael (Nov 29, 2011)

God...all this talk of artists.

I miss Michael Turner. 

And holy shit...DAN ABNETT wrote for DC?  Dan Abnett of Black Library?


----------



## Rukia (Nov 29, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> Quietly and McDaniel drew Damien the best


I think David Finch does okay.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 30, 2011)

Mael said:


> God...all this talk of artists.
> 
> I miss Michael Turner.
> 
> And holy shit...DAN ABNETT wrote for DC?  Dan Abnett of Black Library?



Dan Abnett along with Andy Lanning of MARVEL's cosmic universe (MARVEL Cosmic). They also did the Wonder woman limited Flashpoint series


----------



## Cromer (Nov 30, 2011)

DnA did a Flashpoint mini, 'Wonder Woman and the Furies' I dunno what else they did for DC.


----------



## Mael (Nov 30, 2011)

The things you learn...yeah see...

Where I come from, Dan Abnett is pretty much the best known guy because of Gaunt's Ghosts.

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Cromer (Nov 30, 2011)

Mael said:


> The things you learn...yeah see...
> 
> Where I come from, Dan Abnett is pretty much the best known guy because of Gaunt's Ghosts.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



Ibram Gaunt and his boys...


But Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning have done a LOT of comics together.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 30, 2011)

Drawn AND written by Liefeld. Liefeld writing Batman better be as beautifully terrible as I hope but I bet Liefeld will even disappoint in that regard and it'll just be boring.


----------



## Mael (Nov 30, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Ibram Gaunt and his boys...
> 
> 
> But Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning have done a LOT of comics together.



I'll have to do some research then, starting with Superman/Batman. 

Abnett is a fantastic writer IMO.  He's amazing with Imperial Guard, some Chaos, but sadly mediocre with Space Marines that weren't from the Horus Heresy.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 30, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Red Hood got better.
> 
> I still think it would have been better as the crazy adventures of Jason, Kory and Roy *screwing everybody in the DCU*.








> Feast your eyes



WTF is this shit? I actually LIKE Liefeld but...WTF?


----------



## Parallax (Nov 30, 2011)

he doesn't even bother to draw Batman's costume right


----------



## Slice (Nov 30, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> Not only that, but (at least for me) DC kind of made me forget about Marvel the last few months. I used to read a lot of their comics. I havent read any Fear Itself BS since August so I dont even know what the hell is going on anymore. The only Marvel I find myself remembering to read is ASM, Wolvie University, Cyke and the Boys, and the Godly X-Force.



This somehow happened to me too. Some years ago i mainly read Marvel and sometimes looked at a Batman book. Fast forward to now the only thing Marvel i read on a regular basis is UXF and everything from the Ultimate line while i now have like 12 or 13 DC books on my read list. 



Mael said:


> God...all this talk of artists.
> 
> I miss Michael Turner.



Me too, especially his glorious 1990's Witchblade art.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Nov 30, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Hell they even wanted to paint him in a positive light after seeing him getting his ass kicked.



"I'm sure your *intentions* are good but [hand on shoulder] you don't know what these monsters are and you couldn't *stop* them but you gave it a really strong *effort* and I *appreciate* that, we *all* do. And when the time is right when we get through this, I'll make sure to *tell* the reporters you *helped* us out, okay. We'll put you in a good *light* for once."

(Emphasis not mine)

Does that sound like respect to you? Or indeed anything other than pity?


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 30, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Drawn AND written by Liefeld. Liefeld writing Batman better be as beautifully terrible as I hope but I bet Liefeld will even disappoint in that regard and it'll just be boring.



I need it to be all kinds of dreadful.



Cromer said:


> I actually LIKE Liefeld but...WTF?



From which strange universe do you come from?




Rukia said:


> I'd buy that book, gabzilla.  I think its a little disappointing when the good artists get stuck with the poorly written books though.  Wish he were working on something more rewarding.
> 
> Example.  Justice League dark has potential.  I do hate the art though.  I find it incredibly mediocre at least.



Huntress is pretty ok.


----------



## Glued (Nov 30, 2011)

I like Rob Liefeld, becaus I love the 90s and the EXTREME!!!

Without Liefield, there would be no deadpool.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 30, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Feast your eyes



AND HES WRITING IT

edit: oh someone already said that. 

But yeah Sterling Gates, Marcus To and Pete Woods are all being totally wasted right now as far as I'm concerned. DC needs to get them on some stuff I give a darn about.


----------



## mali (Nov 30, 2011)

>Swamp Thing and Animal Man will probably be fighting against the same thing/forces
>yes yes yes

Green Lantern was pretty good.

Larfeeze in New Guardians


----------



## Mael (Nov 30, 2011)

I understand that Dan DildoDiDio means to have Barry Allen in for the long haul while keeping Wally and Company out for now, but given his track record I haven't a clue whether to take this seriously or not.


----------



## MrChubz (Nov 30, 2011)

Rob said:


> "I'm sure your *intentions* are good but [hand on shoulder] you don't know what these monsters are and you couldn't *stop* them but you gave it a really strong *effort* and I *appreciate* that, we *all* do. And when the time is right when we get through this, I'll make sure to *tell* the reporters you *helped* us out, okay. We'll put you in a good *light* for once."
> 
> (Emphasis not mine)
> 
> Does that sound like respect to you? Or indeed anything other than pity?



He's the most loseriest super hero in the DCU and he shows up and gets his ass kicked. Did you want them to throw him a parade?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 30, 2011)

well he puts in a better showing than the police fodder, but on the other hand police die or are at least seriously injured on his watch... something that oddly no one seems all that concerned about XD


----------



## Rasendori (Nov 30, 2011)

Just got through the latest Red Hood. Definitely upped the ante.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 3, 2011)

I can't wait till Wonder Woman and Superman are at odds at some point.


----------



## Memos (Dec 3, 2011)

Rukia said:


> I can't wait till Wonder Woman and Superman are at odds at some point.


That always works out well for Diana.


----------



## Mael (Dec 3, 2011)

Rukia said:


> I can't wait till Wonder Woman and Superman are at odds at some point.



Yet will somehow and mysteriously fail miserably in the face of Darkseid head to head, and no not that one time where she ends up giving him some of her essence.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 3, 2011)

Memos said:


> That always works out well for Diana.



Pimpslapped...FOR KRYPTON!!!

Appropriate music:

[youtube=x9X2GN87F18]PIMPSLAPPED!!![/youtube]

And what comic is that page from?


----------



## Memos (Dec 3, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Pimpslapped...FOR KRYPTON!!!
> 
> Appropriate music:
> 
> ...



)


----------



## Glued (Dec 3, 2011)

If Gail Simone were writing, Wondy would solo Darkseid.

Under Gail Simone.

Wondy Killed Ares, while injured. Not only that, Are didn't even put up a fight.
Pele, Hawaiian Goddess, according to Wondy can punch harder than Superman
Wonder Woman punch Zeus in the face and then walked away without repercussion 
Wondy threatened to castrate Quetzalcoatl's son.


----------



## Mael (Dec 3, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> If Gail Simone were writing, Wondy would solo Darkseid.
> 
> Under Gail Simone.
> 
> ...



And now on sale!


----------



## Nightblade (Dec 4, 2011)

didn't Ares let WW kill him for his plans with those crow children? aaaaand to troll her and watch her sleep naked. not that she could kill him since he's a god and most of all the god of the underworld, master of death and all that.



Rukia said:


> I can't wait till Wonder Woman and Superman are at odds at some point.


idk man. they'll probably spar, but I think it'll end up in sex.
I hope Johns plays that angle.


----------



## Slice (Dec 4, 2011)

I love how Hal immediately is under the impression that he could score with Diana.


----------



## Glued (Dec 4, 2011)

Nightblade said:


> didn't Ares let WW kill him for his plans with those crow children? aaaaand to troll her and watch her sleep naked. not that she could kill him since he's a god and most of all the god of the underworld, master of death and all that.



That would have been true, except Ares came back from the grave as a ghost and basically told her how badly he was tormented in death by all those who died in war.

As for those children of the crow. Wondy wrapped herself in her own lasso bent them over and gave them a spanking.

Power Girl: You did not just spank the god of war?

Wondy: *smiles*


----------



## Rukia (Dec 4, 2011)

Slice said:


> I love how Hal immediately is under the impression that he could score with Diana.


I know.  He was even quicker than Flash.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Dec 4, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> He's the most loseriest super hero in the DCU and he shows up and gets his ass kicked. Did you want them to throw him a parade?



Considering that without Aquaman and Mera there half of them would obviously be dead, not act like condescending fucks.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 4, 2011)

Rukia said:


> I know.  He was even quicker than Flash.



I really liked that scene, even though I read a few reviews saying it was LCD type stuff.

I mean it fits perfectly that Barry would be in silent awe and Hal would instantly be thinking "Who is this woman and how can I get into her pants?"


----------



## Cromer (Dec 5, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I really liked that scene, even though I read a few reviews saying it was LCD type stuff.
> 
> I mean it fits perfectly that Barry would be in silent awe and *Hal would instantly be thinking "Who is this woman and how can I get into her pants?"*





Classic Hal!


----------



## Glued (Dec 6, 2011)

I don't think Wondy even noticed him.

Superman: You are strong
Wondy: I know.


----------



## illmatic (Dec 7, 2011)

> Yesterday, we linked to all of the exclusive previews of the fourth issues from DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 that are going on sale tomorrow.
> 
> Below, take a look at all the previews that ran (sorted alphabetically and separated by cover), compiled here in one easy location for your convenience.


----------



## Glued (Dec 7, 2011)

Holy shit Guilotina is going after Static.
Wait, why would Darkseid send a minion after Static?


----------



## Penance (Dec 7, 2011)

^Cause he sweet...


----------



## Rasendori (Dec 7, 2011)

I forgot Static even existed in this reboot.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 8, 2011)

no one talking about this weeks comics? I guess it gets old saying animal man, swamp thing, and action comics were all good.


----------



## Blinky (Dec 8, 2011)

Action Comics looked better this week than the last one.


----------



## MrChubz (Dec 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> no one talking about this weeks comics? I guess it gets old saying animal man, swamp thing, and action comics were all good.



Pretty much. Add OMAC for the OMAC crew.

Edit: Seeing Steel get some spotlight was nice. I was always a fan of him after 52. I wonder why they decided to show it after it chronologically happened though.


----------



## Penance (Dec 8, 2011)

STatic~.....


----------



## Platinum (Dec 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> no one talking about this weeks comics? I guess it gets old saying animal man, swamp thing, and action comics were all good.



It's become the 'nice weather out there' of our comics watercooler discussion.


----------



## Blinky (Dec 8, 2011)

erm..... I like the white Superman t-shirt?


----------



## Cromer (Dec 8, 2011)

We all already had a good idea what would be good this week. The only surprising thing is that Stormwatch has STILL to properly come into its own. Am I putting too much hope in Cornell?


----------



## Slice (Dec 8, 2011)

Opinions on the Brainiac redesign?


----------



## Blinky (Dec 8, 2011)

Cromer said:


> We all already had a good idea what would be good this week. The only surprising thing is that Stormwatch has STILL to properly come into its own. Am I putting too much hope in Cornell?



He's off Stormwatch after issue 6. 



Slice said:


> Opinions on the Brainiac redesign?



From what I've heard that redesign happened before the relaunch.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 8, 2011)

Platinum said:


> It's become the 'nice weather out there' of our comics watercooler discussion.



fine then discuss this!  (new captain cold look)


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 8, 2011)

Slice said:


> Opinions on the Brainiac redesign?



it's interesting and a little creepy which is cool. somehow the look works for someone who likes to collect cities


----------



## Slice (Dec 8, 2011)

He looks very fragile though, the creepy aspect works but this version will physically be no match for Supes.
I am curious how this will be handled.


----------



## Slice (Dec 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> fine then discuss this!  (new captain cold look)



He's metahuman now 

And i think the costume looks a bit too busy in the sketches. Excited to see how the "new" rogues will turn out especially since the old continuity still exists.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 8, 2011)

I don't know how you can call that busy, I swear that's just become a word for any DCnU look you can't come up with a proper criticism for  I mean it's not any more or less busy than the original look. 

I think maybe it'd look better with some blue in the hood, but he's totally right about the inuit sunglasses, the actual look is way better than the old captain cold glasses.


----------



## Mael (Dec 8, 2011)

New Captain Cold, eh?  I'm actually a little intrigued.  So far the Flash has been the best series IMO (totally biased ) so I'd like to see what they're doing with the Rogues.


----------



## Slice (Dec 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I don't know how you can call that busy, I swear *that's just become a word for any DCnU look you can't come up with a proper criticism for*  I mean it's not any more or less busy than the original look.



Exactly! Remember: Not a native speaker here so i use terms i recently picked up more often than they should be. 

With that i mean the "naked" arms, the pattern on the clothes, the different colored hoody. It could have used a bit less of that.

But it is just one picture and i am excited to see how it will look on panel. Manapul is a good artist so i am not doubting what he does its just what came to my mind first.


----------



## Blinky (Dec 8, 2011)

I like it. I hope Gorilla Grodd makes an appearance eventually. 

I fucking love Grodd for some reason.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 8, 2011)

I like it well enough, but I miss the goofy parka and ridiculous gun.

I've always loved how at odds their nature and attitude was with their outfits and gimmicks. Like at first glance weather wizard is utterly ridiculous and you want to just laugh, then he makes a tornado in your stomach.


----------



## Parallax (Dec 8, 2011)

The new design is kinda goofy

I don't think it's bad or anything

but when I saw it I chuckled a bit

and I don't get how people say it's busy it's a pretty minimalist outfit if anything.


----------



## Slice (Dec 8, 2011)

Parallax said:


> and I don't get how people say it's busy it's a pretty minimalist outfit if anything.



Actually that was just me and maybe i just used the word wrong.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Dec 8, 2011)

I'm okay with the redesign. Manipul makes it work, though I'm still iffy on the metahuman thing. It _does_ make Trickster a bit more unique, but I think the core of the rogues is less about technology and more about how they work together. If Manipul can capture that, they could be giant rabbits in costumes and I'd be happy.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 8, 2011)

Here guys.  My contribution for the week.  Don't say I'm not a team player.


----------



## illmatic (Dec 9, 2011)

> In this two-part story “The Hunt for Harley Quinn” written by Adam Glass with art by Clayton Henry, Harley’s former teammates on the Suicide Squad track her through Gotham City as she tries to discover the truth behind the Joker’s disappearance.
> 
> Along the way we’ll learn Harley’s origin as Dr. Harleen Quinzel, a groundbreaking psychiatrist who works her way into the Joker’s mind as he works his way into hers, revealing her own madness within.
> 
> When we asked editor Pat McCallum about this storyline here’s what he had to say, “We don’t promise a happy ending. But the book’s called SUICIDE SQUAD, so I guess that should be obvious. ‘The Hunt for Harley Quinn’ is the mission we’ve been building to since SQUAD #1. While we’ll learn Harley’s origin, observe her first meeting with the Joker, see a new Squad lineup AND learn why King Shark has been acting so weird, it’s the last few pages of issue #7 that are a punch to the gut. For the Squad members that survive (and not all will), ‘The Hunt for Harley Quinn’ will leave them scarred both inside and out. Deadshot fans be warned.”


----------



## Blinky (Dec 9, 2011)

Adam Glass rewriting her origin? This should be good


----------



## Rukia (Dec 9, 2011)

Suicide Squad.


----------



## Devil Kings (Dec 9, 2011)

Action Comic beat all.

Steel was a bad ass, Corbin was also a bad ass, Luthor was a sniveling coward, that's bad ass.

And that little Braniac teaser had me jumping off walls.

Morrison and Rags out done themselves, and Morrison once more proves to us why he's the right man in writing Superman's beginning.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Dec 9, 2011)

The reimagining of Brainiac is certainly fucking creepy. I also like that JHI is there from the start now.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 9, 2011)

Huntress' art looks utterly awesome on the iPad. Wonder if it looks as good in print?


And reading Animal Man today, it hit me: poor Jeff Lemire.


What?


Yup, poor Lemire. Because reading Animal Man and Swamp Thing side by side, you start getting to thinking: Lemire's playing in Morrison's old stomping grounds (Animal Man, Frankenstein), and Scott Snyder's doing the same for Alan Moore (Swamp Thing, so far). 


And Snyder's getting way more attention than Lemire is. Remind you of another pair of writers?  (Plus I prefer Lemire's stuff to Snyder's, just as I do Morrison to Moore)

Of course, Lemire and Snyder are on friendly terms, whereas Morrison and Moore...not so much.


----------



## Blinky (Dec 9, 2011)

Snyder getting more attention? I hear more about Animal Man than Swamp Thing.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Dec 9, 2011)

I feel like most of the talk Snyder gets is about what he's doing with Batman more than anything.


----------



## Memos (Dec 9, 2011)

I can't wait till Snyder goes nuts and starts hating on the whole industry because he's the best there's ever been, and for Lemire to shave his head and become the Supergod of his own comic book universe.

Snyder and Lemire are two of the stand out writers of the 52 and they get the recognition for their work pretty evenly I would say.


----------



## lucky (Dec 9, 2011)

My options aren't here!

*I, Vampire.*  Fuckin' A.  Great dark art.  More compelling story and dynamic between leads.  Twilight, eat yo' heart out. 

*Aquaman.* Love the art.  humor gives it heart.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 9, 2011)

lucky said:


> My options aren't here!
> 
> *I, Vampire.*  Fuckin' A.  Great dark art.  More compelling story and dynamic between leads.  Twilight, eat yo' heart out.
> 
> *Aquaman.* Love the art.  humor gives it heart.



in the poll? they fall under the dark and JL lines


----------



## illmatic (Dec 12, 2011)

*JUSTICE LEAGUE #7*


> Written by GEOFF JOHNS
> Art by GENE HA and GARY FRANK
> Cover by JIM LEE and SCOTT WILLIAMS
> 1:25 Variant cover by GARY FRANK
> ...


----------



## illmatic (Dec 12, 2011)

November 

Highest selling NEW 52 title 
JUSTICE LEAGUE #3 $3.99 DC *158,700* 

Lowest selling NEW 52 title 
BLACKHAWKS #3 [*] $2.99 DC *20,114*


----------



## SageMaster (Dec 12, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> Morrison and Rags out done themselves, and Morrison once more proves to us why he's the right man in writing Superman's beginning.



Morrison is the right man for writing superman in general.


----------



## Parallax (Dec 12, 2011)

oh shit Gene Ha doing JL #7 that's pretty cool


----------



## Nightblade (Dec 12, 2011)

Aquaman done shave his side burns.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 12, 2011)

Man I want Flash 7 right now


----------



## Devil Kings (Dec 12, 2011)

illmatic said:


> *JUSTICE LEAGUE #7*



Steve Trevor is the teams greatest champion? What type of dumb shit is that.


----------



## Nightblade (Dec 12, 2011)

he's going to be JLA's Nick Fury what Nick was to the Avengers.


----------



## Blinky (Dec 13, 2011)

I hope they won't have a huge team after the timeskip


----------



## illmatic (Dec 13, 2011)

> Earlier today, we linked to all of the exclusive previews of the fourth issues from DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 that are going on sale tomorrow.
> 
> Below, take a look at all the previews that ran (sorted alphabetically and separated by cover), compiled here in one easy location for your convenience.


----------



## Memos (Dec 13, 2011)

There's so much goodness there. I really love the cover to GL #4.


----------



## Stalin (Dec 13, 2011)

What were the best post crisis superman and action comic runs?


----------



## RED MINOTAUR~! (Dec 13, 2011)

Sup bros :ho I'm new to comics and the New 52 (as well as Ultimate Marvel's semi-relaunch) have pulled me in mad style. I stopped with manga about a year ago and it's good to have a reading fix again. I've just seen that Blackhawks is only doing 20,000, that's a shame as it's one of the series I'm picking up. The writer is just doing a completely awful arc for what is supposed to be introducing new readers to these characters.


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Dec 13, 2011)

> Also starting in this issue: “The Curse of Shazam!” featuring a story by Geoff Johns and art by Gary Frank! Discover Billy Batson’s place in DC Comics – The New 52 as we reveal his all-new origin story!



Finally! Figures that Freddy isn't Cap anymore, though. Oh well, hopefully we get some Black Adam.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 14, 2011)

RED MINOTAUR~! said:


> Sup bros :ho I'm new to comics and the New 52 (as well as Ultimate Marvel's semi-relaunch) have pulled me in mad style. I stopped with manga about a year ago and it's good to have a reading fix again. I've just seen that Blackhawks is only doing 20,000, that's a shame as it's one of the series I'm picking up. The writer is just doing a completely awful arc for what is supposed to be introducing new readers to these characters.



Not that much of a shame then. Well, GI Joe in the DCU isn't a terrible idea but yeah there's a lot of DC books where the concept or character are way better than the execution.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 14, 2011)

Stalin said:


> What were the best post crisis superman and action comic runs?



I guess Johns and Cornell on Action? That's all I can think of atm. All Star Superman is always a good superman recommendation but that was it's own thing not in either of those series.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 14, 2011)

Action #4 is the first one that felt off to me, it is the one that felt like plot for the sake of it and where I have started to loose interest. Same with Flash #3 which is a gorgeous book but I give less than two shits about the characters or the plot.


----------



## Blinky (Dec 14, 2011)

Will someone please tell me why Gentleman Ghost is part crab now?


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 14, 2011)

because why not?

its really not a bad look...


----------



## Blinky (Dec 14, 2011)

but... but... he's called Gentleman Ghost.... why is he part crab?


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 14, 2011)

its a zombie crab


----------



## Blinky (Dec 14, 2011)

Gentleman Ghost is a zombie crab 

my head hurts


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 14, 2011)

I actually kinda like the new look for Gentleman Ghost...


----------



## Rukia (Dec 14, 2011)

Most of my subscriptions hit next week.  Oh well, I read Suicide Squad.

Here is a page:


----------



## illmatic (Dec 14, 2011)

You can read the full issue when it hits stores Dec. 21. For now, check out EW’s full sneak peek here.


----------



## Slice (Dec 14, 2011)

Rukia said:


> Most of my subscriptions hit next week.  Oh well, I read Suicide Squad.
> 
> Here is a page:
> 
> *page*



These pages you post from time to time, is this the resolution you get the digital comics in or do you scale that down?
This is horribly tiny on my screen.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 14, 2011)

I'm thinking Rukia gets them legally, then posts them scans through  route.


Else I dunno, is it possible to transfer my comiXology archive to PC access? 'Cos I'm thinking DC would want to avoid the piracy issues (lol, piracy) common with PC


----------



## illmatic (Dec 14, 2011)

you read panel by panel with digital comics


----------



## MrChubz (Dec 14, 2011)

Slice said:


> These pages you post from time to time, is this the resolution you get the digital comics in or do you scale that down?
> This is horribly tiny on my screen.


It can be small depending on the comic. However there's a double size feature which works fine.



Cromer said:


> I'm thinking Rukia gets them legally, then posts them scans through  route.
> 
> 
> Else I dunno, is it possible to transfer my comiXology archive to PC access? 'Cos I'm thinking DC would want to avoid the piracy issues (lol, piracy) common with PC


The Prt Sc button.



illmatic said:


> you read panel by panel with digital comics



No you don't. All DC does is scan a comic and you read page by page (or 2 pages if there's a spread).

Here's what it looks like in full screen, with the default size.


Photobucket scalaed it down, but I think you get the picture.


----------



## illmatic (Dec 14, 2011)

I read some free MARVEL digital comics and it was a panel by panel guided view instead of a full page view


----------



## Rukia (Dec 14, 2011)

Slice said:


> These pages you post from time to time, is this the resolution you get the digital comics in or do you scale that down?
> This is horribly tiny on my screen.


Get a bigger monitor.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 14, 2011)

ive got a pretty big screen that shit is tiny


----------



## Slice (Dec 14, 2011)

Rukia said:


> Get a bigger monitor.



I think my 27" is big enough.
The high native resolution only makes it worse.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 14, 2011)

btw I think batman and robin was my favorite DC thing this week


----------



## MrChubz (Dec 14, 2011)

If I had to pick one this week it would be GL. The people of Sinestroland are really annoying me though. I get that they don't like Sinestro but he is very obviously trying to save them. At the very least they should defeat the Sinestro corps then kick Sinestro's ass. Its a more logical order.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 14, 2011)

They have really tried hard to establish Deadshot as a badass during these first four issues.


----------



## gabzilla (Dec 14, 2011)

Good Lord, Batwoman lemme bear your babies.


----------



## Glued (Dec 14, 2011)

Omac just fought Alligators with laser beams on their heads.

Next issue, Omac will fight Frankenstein.

This is going to be good.


----------



## illmatic (Dec 14, 2011)

Green Lantern was great this week.

Sinestro creating a army of GL's was boss


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 14, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> If I had to pick one this week it would be GL. The people of Sinestroland are really annoying me though. I get that they don't like Sinestro but he is very obviously trying to save them. At the very least they should defeat the Sinestro corps then kick Sinestro's ass. Its a more logical order.



Well he did enslave them and had them worship him as a god...this kinda reaction is to be expected



gabzilla said:


> Good Lord, Batwoman lemme bear your babies.



the art continues to be fucking glorious...this is one of the few books I buy on art alone


----------



## Rukia (Dec 14, 2011)

Good issue for Batwoman this week?  Isn't Friend doing the inks?


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 14, 2011)

it was as good as always.


----------



## MrChubz (Dec 14, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Well he did enslave them and had them worship him as a god...this kinda reaction is to be expected
> 
> 
> 
> the art continues to be fucking glorious...this is one of the few books I buy on art alone



The logical order would have been to kill the Sinestro corps then Sinestro.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 14, 2011)

Batman and Robin took a turn for the ridiculously awesome this month.


----------



## Krypton (Dec 14, 2011)

Sinestro's no fool. The second they try to kill him, he's fail safe kicks him.

I think there rings might be just like Jordan's ring. Follow Sinestro and you have power, be a dick to Sinestro and he shows you who's the master, and who's the obedient dog with a collar around there necks.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 14, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Batman and Robin took a turn for the ridiculously awesome this month.



Glad I'm not the only one to notice this


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 16, 2011)

Yeah, did anyone else absolutely love Damian's scene at the grave?


----------



## Blinky (Dec 16, 2011)

Damian is awesome


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 16, 2011)

I'm so envious that Damian is in the bat books. I love the kid, but I still really wish Tim could have been kept in the Bat Fold. Really pisses me off he got the boot to the titans.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 16, 2011)

I'm caught between enjoying most of the Batbooks and lamenting the fact that there are so many. I mean, off the top my head, there's Batman, DC, BatRob, Dark Knight (which needs to die a fiery death;I'm not sure who the dullards are who keep it at 100k+ sales), Batwoman, Batgirl, Nightwing, Red Hood, etc

And WW, Damian isn't the reason Tim's booted to the Titans, it's Jason and his fratboy pack


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 16, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I'm caught between enjoying most of the Batbooks and lamenting the fact that there are so many. I mean, off the top my head, there's Batman, DC, BatRob, Dark Knight (which needs to die a fiery death;I'm not sure who the dullards are who keep it at 100k+ sales), Batwoman, Batgirl, Nightwing, Red Hood, etc
> 
> And WW, Damian isn't the reason Tim's booted to the Titans, it's Jason and his fratboy pack



Dark Knight needs to go, and Detective comics needs a new direction. In place of Dark Knight, we need my proposed bat-team book:

Stephanie Brown: Leader / The Balls
Cassandra Cain: The Brawn
Tim Drake: The Brains
Charlotte Radcliffe: The Wildcard

And its honestly the fault of DC editorial, who are convinced that Tim works as leader of Teen Titans. He's not the leader type, he's the strategist/tactician type. He led Young Justice by default (since the alternative were Connor and Bart), and only until Wonder Girl eventually took over. He never really lead Teen Titans until post OYL, which was just terrible all around. I really think their thinking is "Well he's a robin, so he's the leader  "


----------



## SageMaster (Dec 16, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Omac just fought Alligators with laser beams on their heads.
> 
> Next issue, Omac will fight Frankenstein.
> 
> This is going to be good.



Can't wait for OMAC vs Franky.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 16, 2011)

...and i'm offically dropping Batgirl...it's just not doing it for me, and i've lost patience in it. Batman and Robin and Batwoman were pretty good this week.

reading through The Ray, I'm actually liking it...though I have the feeling we're supposed to know who the Movie guy is though


----------



## Slice (Dec 16, 2011)

Don't know why but somehow Batman & Robin does nothing for me, and normally i love to read about Damian.


----------



## Riley (Dec 16, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> ...and i'm offically dropping Batgirl...it's just not doing it for me, and i've lost patience in it. Batman and Robin and Batwoman were pretty good this week.



You have to have a severe case of dementia if you think the Batgirl book was gonna be good.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 16, 2011)

Riley said:


> You have to have a severe case of dementia if you think the Batgirl book was gonna be good.



Not really

Considering both books that Simone wrote before the relaunch (Birds of Prey and Secret Six) were good...I was willing to give it a chance...just like I was with Firestorm. However neither of them have impressed me that much, and Batgirl in particular has started to annoy me.


----------



## Blinky (Dec 16, 2011)

Well yeah it was Gail Simone (who is from what I hear a good writer) writing a character that she loves. Of course some people would expect it to be good.


----------



## illmatic (Dec 16, 2011)

Gail Simone was pretty good before the relaunch.


----------



## Riley (Dec 16, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Not really
> 
> Considering both books that Simone wrote before the relaunch (Birds of Prey and Secret Six) were good...



That was BEFORE the re-launch. We're talking now where a good amount of books are mediocre, or adequate, or treading terrible. Gail Simone is in the mindset that making Babs characterization akin to that of Stephanie Brown is good and encourages more readers. It doesn't. That isn't who Babs is. She's most beautiful, intelligent woman in the DCU being brought down to the same intelligence level as a girl that was originally believed to be a ditz.


----------



## Mael (Dec 17, 2011)

I think I've heard too much about the Bats to actually keep my interest in them.  I mean I'll always like Batman, but the split-offs are getting to be to damn numerous, plus the continuous fan expectations.  Sounds like a reversal of my previous mentality, but if you're exposed to so much you can only take so much.

On the flipside, I was delightfully surprised to see Catwoman wasn't as bad as I feared and in fact pretty decent.  Sure it's got corny, kinky sex stuff going on since Bruce and Selina are definitely an item, but it's overall not bad.


----------



## mali (Dec 17, 2011)

I have yet to buy an issue ;_;


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 17, 2011)

Riley said:


> That was BEFORE the re-launch. We're talking now where a good amount of books are mediocre, or adequate, or treading terrible. Gail Simone is in the mindset that making Babs characterization akin to that of Stephanie Brown is good and encourages more readers. It doesn't. That isn't who Babs is. She's most beautiful, intelligent woman in the DCU being brought down to the same intelligence level as a girl that was originally believed to be a ditz.



Yes and? you don't seem to grasp what I was saying at all. I've had the book on my pull list since september (when the first issues of the relaunch came out) and now i'm taking it off my pull list due to it not living up to my expectations and being dissapointing. I gave it four issues which is one more than I gave Deathstroke, Resurrection Man and Nightwing, because you see three-four issues is the standard I have when giving a series a chance to wow me. 

I don't get why you think i'm defending the book for some reason, when I picked it up for two reasons. One was the fact it was Gail Simone, the second was because I liked every other Batgirl series, so I was willing to give this a chance.

Secondly I would say that Good amount of he books are actually pretty good several of which being complete showstealers.


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Dec 17, 2011)

I don't really see the appeal of a book with Bruce and Damian as Batman & Robin. It's just not a very interesting character dynamic, IMO. It's basically Bruce Wayne and a miniature arrogant version of himself beating up bad guys. I just don't get it.

In the past, you always had that dynamic between Batman & Robin, generally with the Robin being the more light-hearted side of the story, and Batman being well, Batman. And then when Dick Grayson became Batman (which I LOVED. Thank you, Grant Morrison) him and Damian essentially switched rolls. I was a big fan of this because A) It seemed like that generation of Superheroes were finally getting the spotlight (in fact, that whole period where the original Titans were making their way into the JLA was pretty awesome to see) and B) It added a completely different dynamic to the Bat books which I hadn't really seen before. With Bruce & Damian as the Bat-duo, to me it kind of seems like they've just gone away with that time-honored formula. It's one brooding, dark guy fighting crime with a brooding, dark 10 year old.

This btw, wasn't supposed to come across as just some random fanboy shitting all over Batman or the new 52 or anything like that. I don't pretend to have any real extensive knowledge of what _really_ goes into making a good comic. I'm not sure I want to know either. I've found through being a big fan of other mediums and actually getting inside knowledge that, for me, it completely sucks out all the mystique that said medium once had. That was simply my two cents on the whole Batman & Robin deal.


----------



## Mael (Dec 17, 2011)

Mali said:


> I have yet to buy an issue ;_;



Let's just say Selina Kyle doesn't piss me off the way Stephanie and Babs are right now in terms of presentation and expectation.


----------



## Riley (Dec 17, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Y
> I don't get why you think i'm defending the book for some reason, when I picked it up for two reasons. One was the fact it was Gail Simone, the second was because I liked every other Batgirl series, so I was willing to give this a chance.



Come now you're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying a more sterner criticism of GS's is book is needed to be given. You have convinced me that you aren't defending the book and I retract my senseless implication of you sir. Honestly the morons on DCboards are like the voters for Hilary Clinton drawn by details they themselves aren't aware of or things that are completely non-existent.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 17, 2011)

How did CBR get dragged into this discussion, when I never once mentioned the Batgirl shit storm over there or on other boards. 

Your Clinton comparison also makes no sense at all


----------



## Riley (Dec 17, 2011)

> How did CBR get dragged into this discussion, when I never once mentioned the Batgirl shit storm over there.



*DCboards* NOT CBR. The CBR posters are fully sane and know what they're talking about when it comes to Batgirl talk.



> Your Clinton comparison also makes no sense at all



How so? They didn't know the positive qualities of Clinton being the Dem nominee similar to Batgirl Babs fans of her walking again. Makes sense IMO.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 17, 2011)

I'm kind of interested in the Dark Knight series now that the Flash popped up.





Emperor Joker said:


> ...and i'm offically dropping Batgirl


The Batgirl books have had good covers.  But that's not really a reason to keep buying.


----------



## Riley (Dec 18, 2011)

Rukia said:


> I'm kind of interested in the Dark Knight series now that the Flash popped up.The Batgirl books have had good covers.  But that's not really a reason to keep buying.



The Dark Knight book covers own in  comparison to Batgirl books if ya ask me.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 18, 2011)

Well.  This next one is just Batman wrapped up in some tentacles.  Not my cup of tea.

The one with Scarecrow coming up looks pretty cool.  And those Bane ones are decent... he's just not my favorite character.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 18, 2011)

I just can't get into The Dark Knight, it's just so terrible. It's the book that I don't see the reason for DC bringing back from before the relaunch. 

Now Batman (The actual book) is the best of the Bat books with the Court of Owls being massivly interesting.

I'm honestly debabting on whether or not I should be getting the Batman Incorporated oneshot that comes out this week


----------



## Parallax (Dec 18, 2011)

what is there to debate of course you should get the Batman Inc one shot


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Dec 18, 2011)

I don't think Dark Knight is completely terrible but it's definitely not on the same level as Batman. I certainly wouldn't pay for it.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 18, 2011)

Rob said:


> I don't think Dark Knight is completely terrible but it's definitely not on the same level as Batman. I certainly wouldn't pay for it.


Definitely true.  Batman is much better.

I like the art for Detective Comics.  But I'm not that interested in it.  I almost subscribed, but someone recommended Action Comics instead.  I owe that person a lot.


----------



## Parallax (Dec 18, 2011)

I like Tony Daniel's art a lot in Detective Comics

but man I just can't get behind the writing

and The Dark Knight is terrible save your money


----------



## Rukia (Dec 18, 2011)

I do think its a bit of a gamble to skip Detective though.  DC seems to be crossing over quite a bit.

One of these weeks I will read an issue of some random comic book.  Huntress or someone from the Batman Family will pop up and their presence will be a big mystery.  There will be some asterisk somewhere on the page that says to refer to Detective Comics #4 to find out.  I hate that ploy.  But it usually works on me.  I always go and buy the missing piece of the puzzle.

Batman also happens to be my favorite character.  My knowledge of him will falter if I ignore major canon stories.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Dec 19, 2011)

Whawt's the word on Justice League International? Any good so far?


----------



## Riley (Dec 19, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I just can't get into The Dark Knight, it's just so terrible. It's the book that I don't see the reason for DC bringing back from before the relaunch.



What's the name of the guy who's the writer for "The Dark Knight" book? I feel so bad for him being fucked over by the relaunch.



			
				Parallax said:
			
		

> what is there to debate of course you should get the Batman Inc one shot



Anyone read the Batman Inc story of Babs taking her character on Internet 3.0 for a test drive and stopping those bad guys? Badass way  more kick-ass than anything in the latest Batgirl books. I mean wtf? I can't believe they would sacrifice that awesomeness for a Batgirl book which has Stephanie Brown's face swapped with Babs.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 19, 2011)

Parallax said:


> what is there to debate of course you should get the Batman Inc one shot



It's like seven bucks from what I heard, hence why i'm not sure wther or not to get it...I suppose I could drop Wonder Woman and vanilla Batman from my pull list this week



Charcan said:


> Whawt's the word on Justice League International? Any good so far?



I've heard mixed reactions...some really like it, some hate it. Personally i think it's kinda mediocre


----------



## gabzilla (Dec 19, 2011)

Riley said:


> That was BEFORE the re-launch. We're talking now where a good amount of books are mediocre, or adequate, or treading terrible. Gail Simone is in the mindset that *making Babs characterization akin to that of Stephanie Brown is good and encourages more readers*. It doesn't. That isn't who Babs is. She's most beautiful, intelligent woman in the DCU being brought down to the same intelligence level as a girl that was originally believed to be a ditz.



You mean a failed version of Steph's characterization.

Between the terrible quips and the rookie mistakes, this Babs would make Steph blush in embarrassment



Riley said:


> *DCboards* NOT CBR.* The CBR posters are fully sane* and know what they're talking about when it comes to Batgirl talk.







Rukia said:


> I'm kind of interested in the Dark Knight series now that the Flash popped up.The Batgirl books have had good covers.  But that's not really a reason to keep buying.



Buy the AH cover book when it's released.


----------



## Riley (Dec 19, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I've heard mixed reactions...some really like it, some hate it. Personally i think it's kinda mediocre



Hopefully this Justice League International involves Guy Gardner and Bruce going at it again. That or at least a side subplot equally humorous.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 19, 2011)

New Batman this week.  Hopefully Bruce survived that explosion.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Dec 19, 2011)

Rukia said:


> New Batman this week.  Hopefully Bruce survived that explosion.



"This week in comics, Scott Snyder fired a shot across Grant Morrison's proverbial bow as he decided to kill Batman _again_, commenting on his blog 'This time, it's for realsies...'"


----------



## Blinky (Dec 19, 2011)

"Alfred takes up the mantle of Batman"


----------



## Cromer (Dec 19, 2011)

God, I am way out of vogue. Just got a bunch of my deadtree comics from _last month._ And I'm currently stuck playing the fuck out of arkham City, so I might not even get around to that any time soon.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 19, 2011)

I'm going to play Arkham City until Mass Effect 3 comes out.

On another note.  I haven't decided whether or not I like the new Justice League yet.  I will say this though.  Jim Lee draws an incredible Wonder Woman.


----------



## Slice (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm really liking the JL book. Especially since it delivers something that is rarely seen: Hal Jordan with a personality!


----------



## Cromer (Dec 20, 2011)

Rukia said:


> I'm going to play Arkham City until Mass Effect 3 comes out.
> 
> On another note.  I haven't decided whether or not I like the new Justice League yet.  I will say this though.  Jim Lee draws an incredible Wonder Woman.



I hadto dial the graphics all the way down on my system to get it to play smoothly. Wonder what I'm gonna do when ME3 comes out. Buy a new system, I'll probably have to at that point.


Slice said:


> I'm really liking the JL book. Especially since it delivers something that is rarely seen: Hal Jordan with a personality!


And glory be! It's the same writer who gave us cookie-cutter Hal in the first place!


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 20, 2011)

Rukia said:


> I'm going to play Arkham City until Mass Effect 3 comes out.
> 
> On another note.  I haven't decided whether or not I like the new Justice League yet.  I will say this though.  Jim Lee draws an incredible Wonder Woman.



i actually thought she looked kinda crappy in a lot of the panels.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Dec 20, 2011)

About the next Justice League


*Spoiler*: __ 



Apparently Aquaman is going to beat up Hal? This I have to see.


----------



## Coteaz (Dec 20, 2011)

Demon Knights is actually very entertaining, I wasn't expecting that. 

/2 months behind


----------



## Memos (Dec 20, 2011)

Rob said:


> About the next Justice League
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Well it _is_ his turn.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 20, 2011)

I kind of like Aquaman.  And I would like to see some of these writers occasionally throw the poor character a bone.  But Hal Jordan is a character he shouldn't be able to beat up too easily.  Apparently this current arc will last three more issues after this.

And in March new characters will be introduced as Justice League Members.  Anyone want to speculate on who these new characters might be?


----------



## illmatic (Dec 20, 2011)

I can't find the image that shows the justice league with the other members in the background.

*EDIT*: So expanded JL looks to be The Atom, Deadman, green arrow, firestorm, hawkman, someone who looks like powergirl, and someone who looks like Mera

source: 

*EDIT EDIT*


> The starting line-up of the team will consist of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), Aquaman, the Flash (Barry Allen), and Cyborg,[22][23] with the Atom (Ryan Choi), Hawkman (Carter Hall), Firestorm (Ronnie Raymond), Green Arrow, Aquaman's wife Mera, Deadman, recently created character Element Woman,[24] and Lady Luck, a revamp of the Golden Age character, as additional members.[25]


----------



## Blinky (Dec 20, 2011)

Oh yeah Element Woman. Forgot how she was pushed during Flashpoint.


----------



## SageMaster (Dec 20, 2011)

Aquaman is manlier than Jordan, so him beating him up isn't surprising.


----------



## illmatic (Dec 20, 2011)

> Earlier today, we linked to all of the exclusive previews of the fourth issues from DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 that are going on sale tomorrow.
> 
> Below, take a look at all the previews that ran (sorted alphabetically and separated by cover), compiled here in one easy location for your convenience.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 20, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Oh yeah Element Woman. Forgot how she was pushed during Flashpoint.


Sort of an odd choice.  There are lots of other great characters in the DC brand.  It's an honor for a character to be among the Justice League.  I'm surprised they would go this direction.  Lady Luck and Firestorm aren't blowing me away either.  I'm a bit disappointed.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 20, 2011)

I love that Hal made fun of Batman on this page.  

filejungle


----------



## KizaruTachio (Dec 20, 2011)

What DCUO Flash was in JLU is what Hal is here.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 20, 2011)

Batman is going to have to do something major to get any respect from the rest of these guys.


----------



## Nightblade (Dec 20, 2011)

I wonder who their leader will be. would have bet on Aquaman but since he's getting shit for respect in his own book, it'll probably be Superman despite his "hit first, ask questions never" attitude.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 21, 2011)

Preview for Batman is awesome.

Me: Wow, this book just can't get any better!
Scott Snyder: Meet Bruce Wayne, boy detective.
Me:


----------



## gabzilla (Dec 21, 2011)

I need scans of Batman inc.  I wanna see Steph.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I need scans of Batman inc.  I wanna see Steph.


I will counter your request with a Birds of Prey scan.


----------



## illmatic (Dec 21, 2011)

I'll go with Wonder Woman


----------



## gabzilla (Dec 21, 2011)

I won't get my hands on the issue till it arrives in my country and who knows when that will happen.

4chan you have failed me.


----------



## Slice (Dec 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> 4chan you have failed me.



It hasn't failed me.

Issue is "shipping" to me right now


----------



## gabzilla (Dec 21, 2011)

Slice said:


> It hasn't failed me.
> 
> Issue is "shipping" to me right now


----------



## Memos (Dec 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


>



You don't check the Win-O thread or your PMs do you?


----------



## Memos (Dec 21, 2011)

Oh wow, Hal got told SO hard


----------



## gabzilla (Dec 21, 2011)

Memos said:


> You don't check the Win-O thread or your PMs do you?



No. 

Besides I can't download anything right now, I was checking to see if somebody posted one of the pages.

No schoolgirl Steph anywhere. 

*edit* oh pms everywhere, my inbox was full  I can't download it here, but I still love you, guys


----------



## illmatic (Dec 21, 2011)

So Batman Inc still takes place in previous continuity


*EDIT*: which makes sense i suppose as its the conclusion of a story that begin before the "NEW 52"


----------



## Memos (Dec 21, 2011)




----------



## gabzilla (Dec 21, 2011)

I love you


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 21, 2011)

Rukia said:


> I will counter your request with a Birds of Prey scan.



i just read that


----------



## FitzChivalry (Dec 21, 2011)

Memos said:


> Not for you. Go away.



y u b h8n?

If it weren't that Hobbit avatar, I'd insult you.


----------



## Slice (Dec 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Besides I can't download anything right now, I was checking to see if somebody posted one of the pages.



I would really like to post a page or two of badass Steph for you, but those would be spoilers and i don't want to ruin it.


----------



## gabzilla (Dec 21, 2011)

Slice said:


> I would really like to post a page or two of badass Steph for you, but those would be spoilers and i don't want to ruin it.



It's alright, I can wait a couple of hours <3 Thank you


----------



## Memos (Dec 21, 2011)

Jon Stark said:


> y u b h8n?
> 
> If it weren't that Hobbit avatar, I'd insult you.



Speaking of avatars, your one is horrible. If I still could I would do you a favour and change it to something that didn't look insultingly bad.

Also...


Memos said:


> Go away.


----------



## Parallax (Dec 21, 2011)

Stewart's art in Inc was flat out awesome I don't think I've liked his art more than in this issue.


----------



## Slice (Dec 21, 2011)

You know you are in for a good Morrison book when you have to re-read the second half of it to understand it all.


----------



## Memos (Dec 21, 2011)

Slice said:


> You know you are in for a good Morrison book when you have to re-read the second half of it to understand it all.



That's why Final Crisis was the best event book I've read.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 21, 2011)

And glory be! The last appearance of BatSteph! (And no, she isn't Spoiler here)


----------



## Slice (Dec 21, 2011)

Batman Inc. now with Lady Gaga, Katy Perry and Rihanna:


----------



## MrChubz (Dec 21, 2011)

The Justice League is so fucked it isn't even funny.


----------



## gabzilla (Dec 21, 2011)

Slice said:


> Batman Inc. now with Lady Gaga, Katy Perry and Rihanna:



And Madonna.

I want this issue. So beautiful.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 21, 2011)

on the subject of that other really good batman book, its funny how snyder's batman has so much dick grayson, it's like the original dynamic duo in that book even though he's got a more current robin around.

and yeah is it just me or did cameron stewart totally change his style for this?


----------



## gabzilla (Dec 21, 2011)

I think it's pretty similar to his Suicide Girls stuff


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 21, 2011)

Steph was 

Also, I love how Green Lantern is the dick of the justice league. "Most of what I do is about trying to impress people."


----------



## Slice (Dec 22, 2011)

"Are you laughing Batman? At a time like this?"


----------



## Mael (Dec 22, 2011)

Slice said:


> Batman Inc. now with Lady Gaga, Katy Perry and Rihanna:



So I read this and asked myself why this has the Wannabe Bowie, an ok singer, and Chris Brown's punching bag.  And supposedly Ms. Speaks Like a Brit Madonna?

FML.  I was looking for a Batman comic, not a sell-out to shitty music.

Dunno...tried to enjoy this but really couldn't.  Couldn't find the wow in it even with the ass-kicking.  Guess I'm too Flash happy.


----------



## Blinky (Dec 22, 2011)

How is Batman Inc as a whole btw?


----------



## Slice (Dec 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> So I read this and asked myself why this has the Wannabe Bowie, an ok singer, and Chris Brown's punching bag.  And supposedly Ms. Speaks Like a Brit Madonna?
> 
> FML.  I was looking for a Batman comic, not a sell-out to shitty music.
> 
> Dunno...tried to enjoy this but really couldn't.  Couldn't find the wow in it even with the ass-kicking.  Guess I'm too Flash happy.



Seriously its just (side) character design. Its not ilke they are reciting lyrics or anything.


----------



## Blinky (Dec 22, 2011)

Stop it you're being reasonable!


----------



## Mael (Dec 22, 2011)

Slice said:


> Seriously its just (side) character design. Its not ilke they are reciting lyrics or anything.



Sorry...you have a bit of a point, but my feelings still stand.  While it is just a art design and they are side characters, it really threw me off.  It's just shameless insertion like that made me think of bleedman's abortions for a split second.  But regardless, putting Lady Gaga as a shooting coach in was to me equivalent of inserting a clown as a history professor.  Unless this was a deliberate joke or some sorta schtick that Batman is aiming for...it detracted the appeal for me.

That and also I just really don't like all three...actually make that four...of those artists.  Nein, danke.

That and I think the near aneurysm build-up to all this got me more Flash Happy to compensate.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 22, 2011)

the joke is pretty simple, pop stars are evil


----------



## Mael (Dec 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> the joke is pretty simple, pop stars are evil



Lady Gaga is pretty damn evil...you got that right.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 22, 2011)

well she actually seems like a nice person but i hate her music haha


----------



## gabzilla (Dec 22, 2011)

t  characters, apparently.

I think it was funny. Besides, Stewart's art is gorgeous and he can pull it off.


----------



## Parallax (Dec 22, 2011)

Morrison made Resurrection of Rha's Al Ghul relevant

whoa


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Dec 22, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> The Justice League is so fucked it isn't even funny.


I am darkseid



gabzilla said:


> t  characters, apparently.
> 
> I think it was funny. Besides, Stewart's art is gorgeous and he can pull it off.



my world has been rock


----------



## Blinky (Dec 22, 2011)

He should have said "Darkseid is..."


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Dec 22, 2011)

> HOW DAN DIDIO STOLE CONTINUITY
> Every Fan  On the Internet
> Liked Continuity a lot…
> But Dan Didio,
> ...


----------



## Parallax (Dec 22, 2011)

Continuity can suck it


----------



## Parallax (Dec 22, 2011)

also Wonder Woman was excellent this week probably the best book from DC

besides Batman Inc of course


----------



## illmatic (Dec 22, 2011)

The first four issues were just the origin story as it was put in a CBR interview


----------



## Blinky (Dec 22, 2011)

Why the fuck is everyone acting like this is the first time DC has done this to continuity? 

And I'm loving Wonder Woman too.


----------



## Slice (Dec 22, 2011)

While i don't agree with every decision that was made - we got more good books than bad ones out of the reboot.

Haters have to stop hating.


----------



## Memos (Dec 22, 2011)

Slice said:


> While i don't agree with every decision that was made - we got more good books than bad ones out of the reboot.
> 
> Haters have to stop hating.



I was reading barely any DC books before the reboot and now I'm reading almost half of them, so it was great.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 22, 2011)

creatively its great, editorially... DC's editors are the most inept people there are at any job


----------



## Nightblade (Dec 22, 2011)

Darkseid looked like he farted and blew everyone away. 



except Wonder Woman.


----------



## illmatic (Dec 22, 2011)

Green Lantern & Batman were they only things selling before the NEW 52


----------



## Mael (Dec 22, 2011)

> Steph Brown, the Flash Fam, and Ted Kord can all burn!?



You can take Steph, but don't fuck wif mah Flash Fam. 



Nightblade said:


> Darkseid looked like he farted and blew everyone away.
> 
> 
> 
> except Wonder Woman.



The Omega Blast. 

Maybe they worried about another overreaction from tumblr? 

That or just a goof on the artist's part.


----------



## Rod (Dec 23, 2011)

Well, even tho I'm not that demanding guy about continuity, personally prefer if certain aspects were a bit more organised per se, more _"linear"_ I'd say.

In my very humble opinion, this is one of the implicit qualities as to why mangas attract new public notoriously these days even outside their common frontiers, in betweem another more appropriate editorial decisions in terms of publishing/logistic schedule.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 23, 2011)

In general I support the reboot, and think it was a great move for DC's "icons" and for a handful of their lesser known characters.

Legacy characters kinda got boned though.


----------



## gabzilla (Dec 23, 2011)

Slice said:


> While i don't agree with every decision that was made - we got more good books than bad ones out of the reboot.
> 
> Haters have to stop hating.



The reboot was a good idea for Superman, Aquaman WW, etc. Then they fucked up the Batman books.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 23, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> The reboot was a good idea for Superman, Aquaman WW, etc. Then they fucked up the Batman books.



The only books I think they actually messed up were Red Robin and Batgirl. Of course, TDK should not exist and Tony Daniel should not be writing batman, but that existed before the reboot.


----------



## Parallax (Dec 23, 2011)

We got Snyder's Batman

everything else we got was acceptable casualties.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 23, 2011)

so am i the only one still checking out blue beetle?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 23, 2011)

No, it's not bad. Although I still think it's trying a bit too hard to be hispanic, although im sure that's just me being nitpicky.

And parallax, Snyder's batman is awesome, but it still blows that 2 of my all time favorite characters got shafted. One more so than the other, but still.


----------



## Mael (Dec 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> The only books I think they actually messed up were Red Robin and Batgirl. Of course, TDK should not exist and Tony Daniel should not be writing batman, but that existed before the reboot.



Can't shoot 100% behind the arc sometimes...unless your name is Ray Allen.


----------



## illmatic (Dec 23, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> so am i the only one still checking out blue beetle?


looking at its monthly ranking in sales compared to other NEW 52 titles I would guess yes.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 23, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> so am i the only one still checking out blue beetle?



I'm still buying it. I actually kinda like it...it's not spectacular but it's a fun book


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 23, 2011)

Mael said:


> Can't shoot 100% behind the arc sometimes...unless your name is Ray Allen.



I suppose, but I'm still kinda pissed that Red Robin and Batgirl got cancelled. I can see what their intent was with both of them, making Babs Batgirl and tie Tim to the titans, but neither of those directions work.

I was really surprised about Red Robin being cancelled simply because Tim's been a decent/good seller for like 20 years. Guess they're thinking we'd all just jump to TT? Meh.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 23, 2011)

That is exactly what they were thinking... and it seems to be working on you


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Dec 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> And parallax, Snyder's batman is awesome, but it still blows that 2 of my all time favorite characters got shafted. One more so than the other, but still.



It's a good dozen or more characters for me

Fuck the reboot, I've read dozens and dozens of good Batman comics.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 23, 2011)

illmatic said:


> looking at its monthly ranking in sales compared to other NEW 52 titles I would guess yes.



Yeah I saw that, which is too bad because it's pretty decent. It's their best 'teen hero' book anyway. Very nice art really. And Bedard's... somewhere between ok and pretty good


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 23, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> That is exactly what they were thinking... and it seems to be working on you



It did at first. I honestly tried to like Teen Titans. Like really really tried to spin it into being more than mediocre, but at some point I just stopped kidding myself. 

It's not a terrible book don't get me wrong, but Tim is out of character and I hate that they rebooted Superboy and if Bart is no longer from the future I'm gonna be pissed.

I bought the first issue, "borrowed" the rest.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Dec 23, 2011)

What's wrong with the new Superboy?


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 23, 2011)

he's not really out of character other than that really awkward attempt by lobdell to write him pining for wonder girl.

but yeah it's kinda mediocre. really could use some better art.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 23, 2011)

Rob said:


> What's wrong with the new Superboy?



it's not the old one


----------



## illmatic (Dec 23, 2011)

quite a few people are buying TT around 50k so if we look at what is liked based on sales TT would be in top 20-25


----------



## Blinky (Dec 23, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> so am i the only one still checking out blue beetle?



Nope, Jaime Reyes is one of my favourite heroes. I would like it if he spilled the beans to his family and friends like he did in his cancelled series since it kinda set him apart from the typical secret identity thing. 

But then again that series was cancelled so what do I know.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 23, 2011)

that he tried to tell them and the beetle shut him up was pretty funny i thought.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 23, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> he's not really out of character other than that really awkward attempt by lobdell to write him pining for wonder girl.
> 
> but yeah it's kinda mediocre. really could use some better art.



Eh, I'm comparing it to Dixon/Yost, and I think he's a bit out of character compared to that. He still has this cockiness about him that came from OYL which I can't stand. Lobdell's Tim is better than Nicieza's, but still meh.

I think I just need to accept that I will never like Tim Drake as much as I liked him while Dixon was writing him. Of course, I thought that about Steph, and then Miller came along....but we all saw how that turned out.



Petes12 said:


> it's not the old one



Pretty much.



Petes12 said:


> that he tried to tell them and the beetle shut him up was pretty funny i thought.



That was funny, although I did really like how Beetle's fam knew who he was. Oh and Blinky, Jaime's old series was awesome, It got canceled because it took time to get awesome (and by that point people had already passed judgement) and because of bitter Ted Kord fans.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 23, 2011)

weird for some reason i thought you liked nicieza


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 23, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> weird for some reason i thought you liked nicieza



I don't mind him, but I don't like how cocky and prep jesusy he made Tim. Admittedly, since Yost's arc ended (the whole Ra's thing), I tried to convince myself that the book hadn't gotten worse.

I did not succeed.


----------



## Blinky (Dec 23, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> that he tried to tell them and the beetle shut him up was pretty funny i thought.



Yeah I'm just hoping that he gets the beetle to ease up as much as in the old series. 

Him stabbing Paco was kinda eeeeh though.


----------



## Mael (Dec 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I suppose, but I'm still kinda pissed that Red Robin and Batgirl got cancelled. I can see what their intent was with both of them, making Babs Batgirl and tie Tim to the titans, but neither of those directions work.
> 
> I was really surprised about Red Robin being cancelled simply because Tim's been a decent/good seller for like 20 years. Guess they're thinking we'd all just jump to TT? Meh.



I think it's too much.  Call me a heretic, but I think there's too much God damned Batman.  I appreciate the characters, most of them Jason Todd and a few others those I don't care for, but if they were to really create all this Batman and all these spin-offs, we'd be more confused than the Marvel universe in the late 1990s.  Also, all the different incarnations of the characters just leaves me with a bitter taste like I have to cherry pick.

It's why I went more with Flash and the simpler Batman and Robin, the former just being my all-time fave.

Reboot was a mixed success IMO. Again, wanna make an omelette?  Gotta break a few eggs and not everyone's going to be happy.  My only wish was just a little more planning.


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Dec 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> That was funny, although I did really like how Beetle's fam knew who he was. Oh and Blinky, Jaime's old series was awesome, It got canceled because it took time to get awesome (and by that point people had already passed judgement) and because of bitter Ted Kord fans.



I like Jaime, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss Ted Kord.


----------



## Blinky (Dec 23, 2011)

Well I really liked Ted Kord but Jaime is just more appealing as a character to me.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 23, 2011)

i dont see any appeal to ted.


----------



## Blinky (Dec 23, 2011)

He was funny with Booster and stuff.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 23, 2011)

Blinky said:


> He was funny with Booster and stuff.



as well as had a nice dynamic with Barbara


----------



## illmatic (Dec 23, 2011)




----------



## Catalyst75 (Dec 23, 2011)

Blinky said:


> Yeah I'm just hoping that he gets the beetle to ease up as much as in the old series.
> 
> Him stabbing Paco was kinda eeeeh though.



I think that we are looking at a scenario that is completely different from the old Beetle Scarab.  I mean different as in "not-corrupted-by-magic" different.  That is why the old Scarab was more 'benevolent' than our current, paranoid and blood-thirsty Scarab.

It was also not found in an Egyptian tomb.


----------



## Nidaime Mizukage (Dec 23, 2011)

Looking forward to the conclusion, because the Atlantis storyline is going to be epic. Nice set up and hope we get more cameos, namely: Orm.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Dec 23, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i dont see any appeal to ted.



Ted is sort of like if you wanted to see a wise-cracking Batman. The problem is that Nightwing does this better, which is why Ted got squeezed out. The fact that they both went after Barbara is kind of ironic, now that I think about it.


----------



## gabzilla (Dec 23, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> The only books I think they actually messed up were Red Robin and Batgirl. Of course, TDK should not exist and Tony Daniel should not be writing batman, but that existed before the reboot.



Not really, the whole family was affected. Tim's past was changed, we don't know if Steph or Cass keep their history, Dick lost his fingerstripes became Robin at 15, Selina and Bruce barely know each other, Oracle probably never existed...



Parallax said:


> We got Snyder's Batman
> 
> everything else we got was acceptable casualties.







Petes12 said:


> he's not really out of character other than that really awkward attempt by lobdell to write him pining for wonder girl.
> 
> but yeah it's kinda mediocre. really could use some better art.



Tim doesn't remember his Robin days fondly.

If that isn't out of character for him I don't know what it is.


----------



## Slice (Dec 23, 2011)

Parallax said:


> We got Snyder's Batman
> 
> everything else we got was acceptable casualties.



We still have Morrison working the magic in Inc.

I agree that Tony Daniel should not write but i really like his art. So that could stay on one of the bat books.

Also they should have launched way less titles, i am a big Batfamily fan but (Snyder) Batman, (Morrison) Inc and a book featuring other characters of the Bat-universe would have been enough.

Except Batwoman - that one gets a free pass because of godly art.


----------



## Nightblade (Dec 24, 2011)

this would have been the perfect time for another WW book. 

or well, I just really wanted to know how the hell she ended up in the US with Steve Trevor.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 24, 2011)

you've clearly seen the wonder woman animated movie...


----------



## Nightblade (Dec 24, 2011)

they might have met in some other fashion in this new reboot.


----------



## Pesky Bug (Dec 24, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Ted is sort of like if you wanted to see a wise-cracking Batman. The problem is that Nightwing does this better, which is why Ted got squeezed out. The fact that they both went after Barbara is kind of ironic, now that I think about it.


Really? Then I'll definitely have to find something from Nightwing, 'cause every single thing Ted has said in the Booster Gold series has been hilarious and I'd really like to see how that can be matched.


And y'all have to excuse me for being new here but how is the relaunch working out? If memory serves right, the point was to help new readers feel less intimidated by the long stories behind each character. I don't know about new or old readers, but as a person who's kept himself informed of some story arcs and only recently started reading, the timeline intimidates me.

Some are re-tellings, some just seem to carry on from previously, Damian even mentioned the time he spent with Dick and Bruce was away. Then there's JL that tells how the team formed and JL: Dark that shows the JL as a team, Cyborg even knows magic hurts Supes... And I haven't even read a dozen of them, Lord forbid if I go for all. So, maybe you, who've read longer than me, can tell me- does this relaunch achieve what they were going for?


----------



## mali (Dec 24, 2011)

Demon Knights is awesome as usual and lol at Atrocitus loosing a corpse


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 24, 2011)

I'm sure some books are more successful at that than others. I think DC tried pretty hard to make books about big characters accessible but then there's things like legion of superheroes where DC has clearly just given up on anyone but the people who are already fans of LoSH ever trying it.

JL Dark takes place 5 years after JL.

Basically with Batman and Green Lantern not much of anything changed, or with Swamp Thing or Animal Man. Other stuff is more... 'newish'.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Dec 24, 2011)

Pesky Bug said:


> Really? Then I'll definitely have to find something from Nightwing, 'cause every single thing Ted has said in the Booster Gold series has been hilarious and I'd really like to see how that can be matched.



Ted is great alongside Booster, but he's really best as a supporting character, isn't he? All the times I think of Ted, it's from a team book or when he's alongside Booster. He does work as a straight man for Booster, but as a combination of Spider-Man and Batman he just doesn't quite hold up on his own like Nightwing does. Yes, they do have a different type of humor, but I think they are remarkably similar when you get down to brass tacks.

Edit: I'm not hating on Ted, either. I love the character, I'm just saying why I think he appeals to people... but why so many just don't care for him.


----------



## MrChubz (Dec 25, 2011)

Is Stormwatch worth getting? After The Martian's appearance in GLC I've been tempted to get it. However I'm not so sure it's worth it.


----------



## Riley (Dec 25, 2011)

I'm digging Darkseid's new design.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 25, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Is Stormwatch worth getting? After The Martian's appearance in GLC I've been tempted to get it. However I'm not so sure it's worth it.



I Like it...it's a good book, it just had a mediocre first issue


----------



## Blinky (Dec 25, 2011)

I think I'll drop it once Cornell leaves.


----------



## MrChubz (Dec 25, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I Like it...it's a good book, it just had a mediocre first issue


I didn't even read issue 1. I've just seen a bunch of panels of MM being an epic badass (including his appearance in GLC) and it made me want to try it. I'l probably get 1 and 2 tomorrow and see how I like it.



Blinky said:


> I think I'll drop it once Cornell leaves.



Who is taking over?


----------



## Blinky (Dec 25, 2011)

Paul Jenkins.


----------



## MrChubz (Dec 25, 2011)

For some reason I asked you that expecting to recognize anyone it could possibly be. Then I realized that aside from Morrison and Johns, I don't know a single writer.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Dec 26, 2011)

I'm surprised by how good Batwoman is, definitely my second favourite in the Bat lineup, after Batman.


----------



## Yoshi (Dec 26, 2011)

I'm late to this thread but has anyone yet discussed why the Green Lantern series, the Red Lantern series and GLC don't seem to fit into the new 52? I mean they pretty much continue from before Flashpoint, don't they?


----------



## MrChubz (Dec 26, 2011)

GL and Batman were the only books doing well so they decided to keep the continuity.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 27, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I didn't even read issue 1. I've just seen a bunch of panels of MM being an epic badass (including his appearance in GLC) and it made me want to try it. I'l probably get 1 and 2 tomorrow and see how I like it.



Not sure how Jenkin's will be, but Cornell's is finally shaping up. First issue was a bit meh, but everything since has been pretty cool.

Midnighter's set up for Apollo's attack was pretty bamf.


----------



## Penance (Dec 27, 2011)




----------



## illmatic (Dec 27, 2011)

last comics of 2011


----------



## Penance (Dec 27, 2011)

Yup...


----------



## Krypton (Dec 27, 2011)

I just got my copy of Cat Woman, and i gotta say it was pretty dumb the way they made her react.

They made Selina a hypocrite in a way. 

Bone was mad because she stole his stuff, and in a away he had every right to do what he did, yet when she was freed and got her revenge on Bone the way she was whinny was idiotic.

She claimed Bone's was wrong for killing her friend over mere things, yet to Bone's those things were his treasure in a way, so she stole Bone's treasures yet she got prissy because he did what he had to do to get them back.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Dec 27, 2011)

Wait, are you complaining that she wasn't all too interested in the POV of someone who murdered her best friend?


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Dec 27, 2011)

Rob said:


> I'm surprised by how good Batwoman is, definitely my second favourite in the Bat lineup, after Batman.



Is it as good as the Rucka stuff from a while ago?


----------



## illmatic (Dec 27, 2011)

It's not better or worse but different.


----------



## mali (Dec 28, 2011)

Yoshi said:


> I'm late to this thread but has anyone yet discussed why the Green Lantern series, the Red Lantern series and GLC don't seem to fit into the new 52? I mean they pretty much continue from before Flashpoint, don't they?



Yep, GL, RL and New Guardians are pretty much some of the most awesome things that have come out of the reboot.

I cant wait to see how they tie-in Animal Man and Swamp Thing


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 28, 2011)

Obviously, Animal Man and Swamp Thing are Red and Green Lanterns, respectively 

But yea, need to get caught up on GLC and RL


----------



## Taleran (Dec 28, 2011)

Holy fuck the art on Flash #4 is on another level of the other three, but I still don't care about any of the words in this book at all.

It is a damn shame.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 28, 2011)

Is it that bad? I think the writing is pretty decent. Pretty freaking good for a team with very little (zero?) writing experience.

I'd say the fantastic art and fair writing make it a very good title, just not a great one.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 28, 2011)

I don't care at all about anyone in the book but the art is getting better and better so that will keep me enjoying the book because of how crystal clear the visual storytelling is.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 28, 2011)

Manny is mildly interesting as far as villains go, and I'm glad they went with him instead of doing the rogues straight away, but I agree with you that for the most part the characters aren't really fleshed out. Hoping that will change as time goes on.

I will say though that I like Man/Buc's writing of Barry more than I liked Johns. However, that might be thanks to the visual storytelling more than the actual dialogue.


----------



## Mael (Dec 28, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Is it that bad? I think the writing is pretty decent. Pretty freaking good for a team with very little (zero?) writing experience.
> 
> I'd say the fantastic art and fair writing make it a very good title, just not a great one.



Taleran said it...it's just awesome.

God I love the fact my favorite hero got the best writing, especially since the writers are somewhat new.  It brings fresher ideas to the table.  Plus the fan expectations aren't as insane as others so I have little flak to sift through to get to the juicy Flashiness.  

Hell Wally has no plan as of yet and I still love this.  Go Flash.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 28, 2011)

issue 4s writing i found a bit annoying, pretty exposition heavy. but i liked the writing fine in the previous 3 issues. lots better than SOME writer/artists who shall remain unnamed


----------



## mali (Dec 28, 2011)

Aquaman making Hal look like a total idiot


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Dec 28, 2011)

To be fair did he really need help with that?

Also I have heard that Teen Titans #4 should be ritually burned, true or false?


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Dec 28, 2011)

It wasn't bad, although I think they could have 
*Spoiler*: __ 



gotten to Teen Titans vs Superboy a lot quicker. As is, we're gonna have to wait a month to see how it goes.






Charcan said:


> Is it as good as the Rucka stuff from a while ago?



I wasn't a DC reader prior to the reboot, so I have no idea.


----------



## Coteaz (Dec 28, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Also I have heard that Teen Titans #4 should be ritually burned, true or false?


I didn't see anything wrong with it. Maybe a little corny, but still entertaining.


----------



## MrChubz (Dec 28, 2011)

Teen Titans gets more hate then it deserves.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 28, 2011)

Agreed, even if I am still grumpy about it. It's good when its at its best, but is mostly mediocre. Tim and Bart made me chuckle.

Aquaman was great, mainly due to the crazy awesome of Aquaman's defeat of the trench guys.

Flash was awesome, but yeah the whole Barry "Imahero!" monologue...

And as for JLdark, don't talk to John Constantine about the future.


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Dec 29, 2011)

Fuck. Do we still know Wally West's fate in the Relaunch? Is he gone forever, or has he taken some type of holiday with his family or something?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 29, 2011)

Still totally MIA.


----------



## Penance (Dec 29, 2011)

Can't wait for Firestorm to get rid of Gail, so it can REALLY pick up-but this month, it's the best it's ever been this year...


----------



## Blinky (Dec 29, 2011)

Is she the problem with the book though? People seem to forget that she's the co-writer.


----------



## Penance (Dec 29, 2011)

Heh, I guess we'll find out within the next few issues...

Maybe I'm a little biased, though, because I've seen what's shes done with some of her other works, lately...


----------



## Mael (Dec 29, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Still totally MIA.



I may be a big Wally fan, but honestly I'm not bothered by the MIA as compared to other characters whose absences are lamented.  The Flash right now is just that good barring an occasional hiccup.  Wally will eventually show and thank Jebus its not through Teen Titans.  I want me my WestPark dynamic and possible Flash Fam.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm pretty sure the Mysterious Woman in Purple is a prelude to a crossover event where all the stuff that hasn't worked in the reboot gets reverted and all the stuff that has worked stays the same.

I bet Wally will be back but he'll probably get stuck with a new ID and outfit since Barry has the iconic moniker and outfit.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 29, 2011)

> where all the stuff that hasn't worked in the reboot gets reverted and all the stuff that hasn't worked stays the same




 Say wha?


So anyway, can anyone tell me how Voodoo was this week? Still interested in reading it, but sadly, money issues meant I had to drop it.


----------



## Memos (Dec 29, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Say wha?
> 
> 
> So anyway, can anyone tell me how Voodoo was this week? Still interested in reading it, but sadly, money issues meant I had to drop it.



She killed some more people.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 29, 2011)

Memos said:


> She killed some more people.



Of course she killed some more people, it's Jim Lee's brave new Wildstorm WorldTM

But nothing new on the story front?


----------



## Penance (Dec 29, 2011)

I, Vampire being sweet again (Favorite of this week, I think).  I'm surprisingly comfy with Teen Titans.  Supes was...fine.  Justice League Dark being sweet.  And the Flash(pretty good, anyway).  I'm a fan-geek for Firestorm.  Stuff happened in Aquaman (Jokes and jokes and jokes and jokes).  New Guardians was bleh, as usual.  Haven't read Hawkman or Voodoo, yet...

EDIT: MOAR Constantine...


----------



## Memos (Dec 29, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Of course she killed some more people, it's Jim Lee's brave new Wildstorm WorldTM
> 
> But nothing new on the story front?



Just that she got her hands on more info. I think it was on Superman.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Dec 30, 2011)




----------



## tari101190 (Dec 30, 2011)

I like how they explain the ships purpose and Jor-Els plans for saving his family. It seems more believable than it has before.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 30, 2011)

I actually have always thought it was silly that they didnt jump into the phantom zone to save everyone but, you know, someone came up with the phantom zone well after the creation of superman so it wasnt a big deal. but i like that.


----------



## Krypton (Dec 30, 2011)

I hope Gail leaving Firestorm don't come true. 

If she does leave, i can see the series going down, not to far that it gets canned, but far enough that sales drop and it's no longer that exciting read, but you continue reading it just reading sakes.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 30, 2011)

Krypton said:


> I hope Gail leaving Firestorm don't come true.
> 
> If she does leave, i can see the series going down, not to far that it gets canned, but far enough that sales drop and it's no longer that exciting read, but you continue reading it just reading sakes.



She is leaving something to do with issues and disagreements with her co-writer...keep in mind she wasn't the only person actually writing it in the first place


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 30, 2011)

i thought it was more with editorial


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Jan 1, 2012)

Justice League#2: How the fuck could the CCPD have photo's of The Flash,while running?

A Flash Task Force?weird.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I read the most recent issue of Justice League.  I'm feeling very underwhelmed by the proceedings.  The formation of the group should have been more gradual.  I think this series might get better after this arc is over.

I like the art.  And even if the writing isn't great.  I will keep reading because of the Green Lantern.  He's been great so far in this.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 2, 2012)

even more gradual?  This is pretty slow paced compared to other origin issues of their formation where it's all done in one issue


----------



## Rukia (Jan 2, 2012)

I just don't like all of the characters gathering so conveniently.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 2, 2012)

you shouldn't read earlier JLA stories then hahah


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't like Justice League too much. The art is great but I think it's the characters I have a problem with. They don't seem realistic at all, and the way they are meeting just seems 'convenient', boring and cliche maybe? I'm going to watch the first ep(s) of the Justice League cartoon to compare.

Maybe I am having a problem with DC in general. DC seems too unbelievable. Nothing to do with the powers, I just mean the characters and the stories. I have started reading Marvel comics more. Perhaps compared to the ones I am reading they are putting DC to shame. I am reading Uncanny X-Force and Venom for example. I need my comics to have more mature themes or a sense of danger and realism, something DC is lacking in Justice League atleast. It's just too cliche and almost kiddy.

Flashpoint seemed better generally I would say.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 2, 2012)

lol reading super hero comics and wanting realism


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 2, 2012)

Narrow minded response.

A sci fi or fantasy story can still have a sense or 'reality' to it. It is what separates it from a more simple or childish story.


----------



## typhoon72 (Jan 3, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> Narrow minded response.
> 
> A sci fi or fantasy story can still have a sense or 'reality' to it. It is what separates it from a more simple or childish story.



You're only discouraging yourself when you compare something as Godly as UXF to Justice League. Step your game up to Swamp Thing, or some pre-52 Vertigo.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't think my response narrow minded when you're the one specifically looking for "adult oriented realistic" super hero comics

I'm not saying that you're wrong but the word choice was hilariously terrible


----------



## Platinum (Jan 3, 2012)

Pretty late on this but Aquaman was pretty badass in the new justice league issue.


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 3, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I don't think my response narrow minded when you're the one specifically looking for "adult oriented realistic" super hero comics


And what is your point? They do exist so I don't understand what you're saying. Justice League proving not to be the type of comic I want to read, but they obviously do exist as I am reading Marvel books which are definitely more mature themed and there are a some mature older DC books out there too.

So of course your response was narrow minded. Responding to me and making light of the fact that I want a less kiddy and cliche book to read when they do exist as if it's an odd thing to say. 

It is narrow minded because you speak as if fantasy comic cannot be mature, which creates the impression that you only enjoy more child-teen orientated stuff. Not everyone else is like that. There are DC books, but I don't want to follow alot of comics. I was hoping Justice League, about the central DC characters would be to my tastes.

I thought the reboot was to become more relatable and realistic, like Marvel seems in a general sense. Maybe you don't understand that type of storytelling or only stick to certain types of books too so don't understand the concept of 'realism'. It doesn't mean literally following real world rules, it means adopting mature and realistic themes. All-Star Superman is an example of a good DC book I would be interested in, but  I want something new and ongoing to read.



> You're only discouraging yourself when you compare something as Godly as UXF to Justice League. Step your game up to Swamp Thing, or some pre-52 Vertigo.


I will read Swamp Thing I guess. But I was hopping for new DC books about Superman or main DC characters. For general fantasy I will stick to novels, tv and film. I personally want to read DC just for characters I like and am familiar with.

What is Justice League Dark like?


----------



## Parallax (Jan 3, 2012)

The reboot never once said it was gonna be a darker and more realistic take.  JLDark is darker but not more realistic.  Read Hellblazer from Vertigo if that's what you're looking for.  You might also enjoy Animal Man or Swamp Thing


----------



## Blinky (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah I'd suggest reading more mature comics instead of expecting the comics you read to become more mature.


----------



## Memos (Jan 3, 2012)

Apparently her name is Pandora.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 3, 2012)

I wonder who'll open her box if you know what I mean 

god that was terrible


----------



## Memos (Jan 3, 2012)

Obviously Starfire.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 3, 2012)

Why do they call it Pandora's Box anyway if she was just the one who opened it? If I open something does that mean I own it? Damn Greeks.


----------



## Pesky Bug (Jan 3, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Why do they call it Pandora's Box anyway if she was just the one who opened it? If I open something does that mean I own it? Damn Greeks.


So it'd be easier to remember that Pandora's the one who fucked everything up. She deserves the shame.


----------



## Memos (Jan 3, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Why do they call it Pandora's Box anyway if she was just the one who opened it? If I open something does that mean I own it? Damn Greeks.



I really didn't want to ever have to think about Blinky's box.


----------



## illmatic (Jan 3, 2012)

_Pandora's box means to create evil that cannot be undone. Pandora's box supposedly contained all the evils of the world._

She seems like a Justice League Dark villain to me as she appears to have some sort of magical ability.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 3, 2012)

Memos said:


> I really didn't want to ever have to think about Blinky's box.



That's because you're an insufferable prick.


----------



## Fran (Jan 3, 2012)

Blinky said:


> That's because you're an insufferable prick.



Instigating and exarcerbating situations you


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 4, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Yeah I'd suggest reading more mature comics instead of expecting the comics you read to become more mature.



This.

But I agree that Marvel does try to exist in "our" world more than DC, but that doesn't always mean its more realistic.


----------



## Rod (Jan 4, 2012)

So I take it both Barry and Bruce prolly have some info on that Pandora individual. U.u


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 4, 2012)

Rod said:


> So I take it both Barry and Bruce prolly have some info on that Pandora individual. U.u



I just hope we don't get a huge event soon. Its been so long since DC just focused on having good series, I'd like to see that continue.

I'd much rather see more crossovers like Animal Man/Swamp Thing and OMAC/Frankenstein. I'd even be fine with a bat fam or super fam crossover, I just don't want to see a legit event just yet.


----------



## Mael (Jan 4, 2012)

Pandora is the Anti-Life Equation.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 4, 2012)

Rod said:


> So I take it both Barry and Bruce prolly have some info on that Pandora individual. U.u


why would they


----------



## MrChubz (Jan 4, 2012)

Rod said:


> So I take it both Barry and Bruce prolly have some info on that Pandora individual. U.u


I doubt they're even aware of her existence.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> I just hope we don't get a huge event soon. Its been so long since DC just focused on having good series, I'd like to see that continue.
> 
> *I'd much rather see more crossovers like Animal Man/Swamp Thing and OMAC/Frankenstein. I'd even be fine with a bat fam or super fam crossover, I just don't want to see a legit event just yet*.



I think it's best for DC to stick with that sort of stuff. It builds a sense continuity between different titles, and the quality is easy to maintain.


----------



## Rod (Jan 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> why would they





MrChubz said:


> I doubt they're even aware of her existence



Alright, from the top of memory, correct me if wrong.

If I'm not mistaken, both Barry and Bruce are aware that Flashpoint happened, with Wayne mentioning he would investigate stuff.

What I think is the kick off point for the next event, in whatever Pandora mentioned as _"them returning"_ or something like that.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 4, 2012)

MrChubz said:


> I think it's best for DC to stick with that sort of stuff. It builds a sense continuity between different titles, and the quality is easy to maintain.



Exactly. DC's already categorized all the 52 into families, so why not just integrate those families further?

Like Static Shock or Blue Beetle having a crossover with Teen Titans, or New Guardians and GLC crossing over, stuff like that.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jan 4, 2012)

Guyz I think I bring you the bestest news of this reboot 


*Spoiler*: __ 



krona seems to be alive


----------



## SageMaster (Jan 4, 2012)

I need to read OMAC now


----------



## MrChubz (Jan 4, 2012)

OMAC was OMAwesome.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 4, 2012)




----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 5, 2012)

He is pretty good. Kinda wish he had an ongoing. Like say...a Cass/Steph book by Brian Miller, or something like that.

Need to read Huntress. First issue was okay, then I kinda just lost interest. 

In other news, Animal Man continues to be the best DC book.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 5, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind, some Swamp Thing, Wonder Woman and Batman readers would like to have a word with you.


----------



## Mael (Jan 5, 2012)

Cromer said:


> Whip Whirlwind, some Swamp Thing, Wonder Woman and Batman readers would like to have a word with you.



Flash too.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 5, 2012)

Mael said:


> Flash too.



I haven't read a single issue.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 5, 2012)

Cromer said:


> Whip Whirlwind, some Swamp Thing, Wonder Woman and Batman readers would like to have a word with you.



Batman and Wondy maybe, but Swamp Thing isn't wowing me the same way the former 2 and Animal Man are. It's great sure, just not OMGAMAZING like the other 3.



Mael said:


> Flash too.



Flash would be the best if Manny/Buccy's writing was as orgasmically amazing as their art. Unfortunately, they aren't really even close to that. Not saying the writing is bad (its okay), just that it holds the book back.



Cromer said:


> I haven't read a single issue.



Why not?


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jan 5, 2012)

Mael said:


> Flash too.



hey hey hey let's not forget omac here eh


----------



## Parallax (Jan 5, 2012)

we're not forgetting Omac


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 5, 2012)

I think the writing on Flash is pretty good. It's not amazing like x-force or something but other than the exposition last issue I'd say even the writing is better than average. Or at least DC's average.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 5, 2012)

I've forgotten omac


----------



## illmatic (Jan 5, 2012)

"Justice League" #1 Sells 300K Copies in Four Months  -


----------



## Rukia (Jan 5, 2012)

I vote for Wonder Woman.  Pretty sure Animal Man sucks.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jan 5, 2012)

Rukia said:


> I vote for Wonder Woman.  *Pretty sure Animal Man sucks*.



Those be fighting words


----------



## Rukia (Jan 5, 2012)

I just read the first few pages of Batman #4.  The tripwire analogy.  You guys are some selfish motherfuckers.  You read quality like this and say nothing?  What if I had forgotten to buy the issue?  I would have missed out!!!  

The writing is at another level four issues in.  Almost as good as Wonder Woman.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jan 5, 2012)

DAT RED LANTERN CHAPTER

I was expecting the brother but I should have known it'd be him. Impotent rage made potent is pretty much the story of the Red Lanterns.


----------



## AfterGlow (Jan 6, 2012)

Sunuvmann said:


> DAT RED LANTERN CHAPTER
> 
> I was expecting the brother but I should have known it'd be him. Impotent rage made potent is pretty much the story of the Red Lanterns.



There's finally a "The Red Lantern", ergo some earthling that may or may not fight Hal Jordan at some point, which would be pretty freaking cool.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 6, 2012)

Yeah i've been enjoying red lanterns a lot myself.

Also no one cares that the cops just flat our murdered a guy ?


----------



## Blinky (Jan 6, 2012)

Rukia said:


> I just read the first few pages of Batman #4.  The tripwire analogy.  You guys are some selfish motherfuckers.  You read quality like this and say nothing?  What if I had forgotten to buy the issue?  I would have missed out!!!



Well everyone expected it to be awesome, it was awesome, so there wasn't really much to say.


----------



## Mael (Jan 6, 2012)

Cromer said:


> I haven't read a single issue.



Heresy. 



Blackfeather Dragon said:


> hey hey hey let's not forget omac here eh



 Silence!  We speak of Flash here!


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 6, 2012)

So I've decided to follow _Justice League Dark _and _Stormwatch_. Lets hope they're good. A magic team and a darker hero team from what I understand.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 6, 2012)

So man the Darkseid reveal in JL#4 was the most anti-climatic boring 5 pages devoted to nothing I have ever seen.


Animal Man was great, and Action was almost a bit too Morrison for Morrison.


----------



## AfterGlow (Jan 6, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> So I've decided to follow _Justice League Dark _and _Stormwatch_. Lets hope they're good. A magic team and a darker hero team from what I understand.



Stormwatch's got potential. Always fun to see the Midnighter.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jan 6, 2012)

Parallax said:


> we're not forgetting Omac





Petes12 said:


> I've forgotten omac


 



> Heresy.


me neither  


Mael said:


> Silence!  We speak of Flash here!


I can hear you over the sounds of awesomeness when I imagine this 





Platinum said:


> Yeah i've been enjoying red lanterns a lot myself.
> 
> Also no one cares that the cops just flat our murdered a guy ?


 I was like wtf  


Sunuvmann said:


> DAT RED LANTERN CHAPTER
> 
> I was expecting the brother but I should have known it'd be him. Impotent rage made potent is pretty much the story of the Red Lanterns.


yeah I like him from the start and I also like his appearance too although the flaming red hair may be too much, I'm holding my judgement on that until later tho



AfterGlow said:


> There's finally a "The Red Lantern", ergo some earthling that may or may not fight Hal Jordan at some point, which would be pretty freaking cool.


yes yes yes yes yes 


tari101190 said:


> So I've decided to follow _Justice League Dark _and _Stormwatch_. Lets hope they're good. A magic team and a darker hero team from what I understand.


yes I've been enjoying stormwatch too, right now I'm following red lanterns, new guardians, the occasional JL, and OMAC, OMAC goes even if I have to miss breakfast for it


----------



## Rukia (Jan 6, 2012)

Taleran said:


> So man the Darkseid reveal in JL#4 was the most anti-climatic boring 5 pages devoted to nothing I have ever seen.


The new Justice League is terrible.  Good art can only take a series so far.


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 6, 2012)

I follow Action Comics too. I like the way the way the story is unfolding, but I wish the art was better though, not that it's bad. Also, I don't understand exactly what happened in the most recent issue.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 6, 2012)

Rukia said:


> The new Justice League is terrible.  Good art can only take a series so far.



I feel like terrible is a bit strong.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 6, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I feel like terrible is a bit strong.



No. No it's not.

And I have as proof my two sisters, who are brand new converts to the Church of Comickers  (still leeching off me tho ) Neither of them is reading JL anymore, citing 'boredom' and 'it'snotasgoodasRedLanternspleaseletmereadRedLanterns pek' as reasons.



tari101190 said:


> I follow Action Comics too. I like the way the way the story is unfolding, but I wish the art was better though, not that it's bad. Also, I don't understand exactly what happened in the most recent issue.



It's Grant Morrison, you had to expect at least one issue like that. You might need to read it three times or so to get it.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 6, 2012)

But Action #5 was pretty damn straight forward....


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jan 6, 2012)

Cromer said:


> And I have as proof my two sisters, who are brand new converts to the Church of Comickers  (still leeching off me tho ) Neither of them is reading JL anymore, citing 'boredom' and 'it'snotasgoodasRedLanternspleaseletmereadRedLanterns pek' as reasons.


but can you blame then red lantern is soo awesome pek as you can it imagine is not weird we have fangirls pek


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 6, 2012)

I meant the ending of Acton Comic really. I guess it will be explained later.

Also, I randomly decided to start Justice League Dark , Demon Knights and Stormwatch, not realizing that they are all connected.

It seems that Xanadu is in Demon Knights and Justice League Dark. While Adam One is Merlin and is in both Stormwatch and Demon Knights. I'm not familiar with these characters so this is new and seems pretty cool too.


----------



## Slice (Jan 6, 2012)

Cromer said:


> It's Grant Morrison, you had to expect at least one issue like that. You might need to read it three times or so to get it.



For Morrisons standard this issue was absolutely straight forward. There are loose ends that will be tied up in future issues but nothing that was impossible to understand.

And i see a lot of hate - am i the only one that actually likes Justice League?


----------



## The Wanderer (Jan 6, 2012)

I have a question for you guys: How's the Reboot treating Tim Drake ? He was at his best as Red Robin -one of the best DC had to offer at the time- but the Flashpoint made me stay away from DC for more than a little while.

I know that he only appears in Teen Titans now .. but is it worth to take a look right now ?


----------



## Slice (Jan 6, 2012)

Teen Titans (unfortunately) is at best a mediocre book and Tim right now didn't actually do that much since it still takes its time establishing the cast of characters.

There really aren't any other books with him right now if you don't count cameo appearances in the bat-books.


----------



## The Wanderer (Jan 6, 2012)

So far he got shanked huh ?

I guess I'll stay away from the Titans and the Batbooks for a little while longer then. Thanks for your answer man.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 6, 2012)

dont stay away from batman or batwoman or batman and robin.

and JL is ok but i did think issue 4 was kind of bad. First it wastes time trying to convince us aquaman's fish powers are cool because giant sharks totally exist that big and jump out of the air like dolphins. And every parademon flies low and etc.

and then it was like 4 pages of 'yep. you're darkseid alright'.


----------



## Mael (Jan 7, 2012)

The Wanderer said:


> So far he got shanked huh ?
> 
> I guess I'll stay away from the Titans and the Batbooks for a little while longer then. Thanks for your answer man.





Petes12 said:


> dont stay away from batman or batwoman or batman and robin.
> 
> and JL is ok but i did think issue 4 was kind of bad. First it wastes time trying to convince us aquaman's fish powers are cool because giant sharks totally exist that big and jump out of the air like dolphins. And every parademon flies low and etc.
> 
> and then it was like 4 pages of 'yep. you're darkseid alright'.



Pretty much what Petes said.  I like Batman, I like Batman and Robin, and dare I say I actually don't have an issue with the Catwoman series mostly due to the dynamics in writing (it's also purposely corny at times yes).  The tumblr/fan rage completely turned me off from further Batbooks with further Robins/Batgirls...and I just plain don't like Jason Todd.

Oh Darkseid...I've just been spoiled with an animated version that chilled my bones as a kid.


----------



## Rod (Jan 7, 2012)

December Sales charts said:
			
		

> 1 justice league #4 dc
> 2 batman #4 dc
> 3 action comics #4 dc
> 4 green lantern #4 dc
> ...


----------



## Nightblade (Jan 7, 2012)

people just fucking love Batman.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 7, 2012)

I absolutely love ghstwrld :ho Seriously, I do :ho


OK, that aside, I'm still not clear on what happened at the end of AC 5. Someone explain?

And I finally started reading my old stuff. All-Star Western is remarkably awesome.


----------



## AfterGlow (Jan 7, 2012)

Am I the only one who finds it funny that Justice League International is a better read than Justice League?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jan 7, 2012)

AfterGlow said:


> Am I the only one who finds it funny that Justice League International is a better read than Justice League?



Meh I actually think the exact opposite to be honest


----------



## Zen-aku (Jan 7, 2012)

AfterGlow said:


> Am I the only one who finds it funny that Justice League International is a better read than Justice League?



both are shit IMHO


----------



## Slice (Jan 8, 2012)

AfterGlow said:


> Am I the only one who finds it funny that Justice League International is a better read than Justice League?



Yes.

But i have only read the first issue of JL:I so my opinion on that one doesn't really count


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jan 8, 2012)

I liked JL, but disliked the last issue. JLI is kind of dull to me, though I know people who do like it more than JL.


----------



## mali (Jan 8, 2012)

Flash was amazing

Swamp Thing was great

Red Lanterns was awesome

Animal Man was superb


----------



## Rukia (Jan 8, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> both are shit IMHO


This.

Justice League Dark has the potential to be better than both.  I wish the series had a better artist though.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 8, 2012)

This is probably the first week where I enjoyed Swamp Thing more than Animal Man. It almost felt like the comic was lacking three or four pages, it went by so quickly.

Bernardin can't come in on Static Shock fast enough, though it still needs a new artist.

Red Lanterns has been awesome, these past two issues.

Stormwatch...nowhere near as good as Demon Knights.

Batwing...I'm slowly being won over.

Anyone still reading Hawk & Dove here?


----------



## mali (Jan 8, 2012)

Demon Knights never dissapoints


----------



## Mael (Jan 8, 2012)

Anything with Mr. Terrific is already guaranteed to be idiotic.

International supermodels could be doing KY-Jelly tub wrestling, Ronnie James Dio would be shredding metal, and Darkseid battles Superman in epic form and the moment he walks in it's like everything grinds to a halt.  That's how bad it is.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 8, 2012)

Mael said:


> Anything with Mr. Terrific is already guaranteed to be idiotic.
> 
> International supermodels could be doing KY-Jelly tub wrestling, Ronnie James Dio would be shredding metal, and Darkseid battles Superman in epic form and the moment he walks in it's like everything grinds to a halt.  That's how bad it is.



That bad, eh?


----------



## Blinky (Jan 9, 2012)

> Ronnie James Dio would be shredding metal



Dio wasn't a guitarist. But his voice could cause mild head explosion.


----------



## mali (Jan 9, 2012)

Omac going to Justice League International.

Also the villian of New Guardians seems like one of those cosmic niggys :amazed

Cant wait for Doc Freezes entry [ #7 ] in the Flash


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 9, 2012)

AfterGlow said:


> Am I the only one who finds it funny that Justice League International is a better read than Justice League?



it's not it's like the worst book of the relaunch


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jan 9, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> it's not it's like the worst book of the relaunch



Petes' hatred of Dan Jurgens can not be quenched, as it is a bottomless pit of rage, suffering, and generic mid-90's art!


----------



## Blinky (Jan 9, 2012)

Dan Jurgens is writing not drawing. And doing it poorly which is a shame since I really like Booster Gold. 

Who was actually created by Jurgens. Weird.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jan 9, 2012)

That's true, but Lopresti still comes off as trying to ape Jurgens' art. I'm guessing Jurgens has a lot to do in the storyboarding area because all the action comes off like it's from a Jurgens comic to me.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 9, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Dan Jurgens is writing not drawing. And doing it poorly which is a shame since I really like Booster Gold.



his writing is even worse than his drawing. the art isn't the problem, it's... well it's not awful.

the writing is loeb level or worse.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 9, 2012)

Loeb's writing can at least be entertaining at times in a very dumb way.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jan 9, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> his writing is even worse than his drawing. the art isn't the problem, it's... well it's not awful.
> 
> the writing is loeb level or worse.



I disagree Loeb's writing can be entertaining...for all the wrong reasons...JLI though is just boring, which is a pity


----------



## Slice (Jan 10, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Loeb's writing can at least be entertaining at times in a very dumb way.



No, no it can't.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 10, 2012)

Slice said:


> No, no it can't.


I disagree  Strongly 


That being said, let's stop with the 'best' books thing. What's the worst book of the nu52, to you? I vote Captain Atom. It doesn't even inspire strong distaste in me, just...boredom.


----------



## Slice (Jan 10, 2012)

I can't vote for a worst book since i read issue 1+2 of everything and then dropped those that did not interest me.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 10, 2012)

This right here is the perfect summary as to why Flash is great.



> I was spending my free-time the other day the same way I imagine most you spend your free-time: idly day-dreaming about how awesome THE FLASH is right now, and how THE FLASH is better than all of the other comics, and how anyone who disagrees with that can SUCK IT.  You know:  normal thoughts for an adult person to be thinking with their brains.  (I just happen to be particularly enjoying THE FLASH at the moment, in a way that probably far exceeds any of that comic book’s actual merits.)
> 
> And so, as I’m reflecting upon THE FLASH– basking in its glory, some might say– my thoughts turned to what the book was like for me before the relaunch:  Not Good.
> 
> After the relaunch, DC let the book’s art team, Francis Manapul and Brian Buccellato, handle the writing. Neither gentleman being professional comic writers by trade, the two instead naively decided to tell a story about how (1) The Flash is a decent guy, (2) The Flash has the coolest powers, (3) The Flash has to face-down gnarly bad guys, and (4) making THE FLASH comics lets them draw/color super-cool things.  Mainstream comics usually aren’t about any of those four things because some writer’s busy showing off that they know things about, like, politics or whatever, instead; e.g., 2011 was the year where Captain America, Iron Man and Superman all had opinions about THE ECONOMY.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 10, 2012)

There's nothing wrong at all about a comic being all about the art. Flash is cool.


----------



## Slice (Jan 10, 2012)

Blinky said:


> There's nothing wrong at all about a comic being all about the art. Flash is cool.



There is _everything_ wrong about a comic being all about the art. If i wanted that i could go to a gallery and look at pretty pictures.

Flash has decent writing and great art - that makes the book so great. If they were writing Loeb level stuff i couldn't enjoy it no matter how good it looks.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 10, 2012)

Well then it's down to preference. In fairness what art actually does for a comic is pretty broad. Most of the story telling now is done through the art unlike say, in earlier days, there was always a narration box telling you what's actually happening in the panel. That's what I like about it, how it uses all these neat little tricks to get the story across like those random panels of the environment to show Barry's awareness of the environment and all the crazy layouts.

I just think writers get a lot more credit than artists. You know how some people basically say they'll put up with shit art as long as the writing is good, I just don't understand that.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 10, 2012)

Indeed you could tell the basic plot of issue #4 without the text being there at all.


----------



## Slice (Jan 10, 2012)

Blinky said:


> I just think writers get a lot more credit than artists. You know how some people basically say they'll put up with shit art as long as the writing is good, I just don't understand that.



Oh, ok. I agree with that.

For me good art is when it enhances the storytelling, like Amanda Conner - her facial expressions and character movements simply do so much for the overall experience.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 10, 2012)

For me good art is when it carries a good amount of the story-telling.

And yeah I like Amanda Conner too.


----------



## Mael (Jan 10, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Dio wasn't a guitarist. But his voice could cause mild head explosion.



Dio was simply an equal opportunist. 

Dio could play every instrument known to man, EVERY SINGLE ONE.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 10, 2012)

Blinky said:


> For me good art is when it carries a good amount of the story-telling.
> 
> And yeah I like Amanda Conner too.



The question is, are you Jimmy Palmiotti ?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jan 10, 2012)

Taleran said:


> This right here is the perfect summary as to why Flash is great.



I wish there were more columns up at Savage Critics. They put out consistently good stuff, particularly their podcast.


----------



## illmatic (Jan 10, 2012)

> Earlier today, we linked to all of the exclusive previews of the fifth issues from DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 that are going on sale tomorrow.
> 
> Below, take a look at all the previews that ran (sorted alphabetically and separated by cover), compiled here in one easy location for your convenience.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jan 10, 2012)

the Last issue of Green Lantern has warmed me up to the book hopefully this issue keeps the momentum.


----------



## illmatic (Jan 11, 2012)

Highest selling title of NEW 52 (DEC)

JUSTICE LEAGUE #4 $3.99 DC *142,248* 

lowest selling of NEW 52 (DEC)

MEN OF WAR #4 [*] $3.99 DC *14,977*


----------



## illmatic (Jan 12, 2012)

What is everyone's pick of the week? The NEW 52 title you enjoyed the most for the week of 1/11/12


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 12, 2012)

My condolences to OMAC fans.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 12, 2012)

Interesting they seem very committed to that number


----------



## Rod (Jan 12, 2012)

This thing still lacking Bruce and Clark iconic friendship interaction, this bugs me. :|

Personally, I really liked that story back in S\B who explored them from a very introspective point of view and their brotherly bond, the definition of duality in the opposite concept with the philosophical meaning implied, what it meant for themselves and for those who believed in each one of. Eventually, it really made it seem like their friendship was indeed part of a big picture, and we would ask ourselves if it wasn'nt indeed destiny. 

Though, that was only touched slightly, what kind of left a taste of frustration.

So I always picture this very precise concept touched upon by a writer that works better with this characteristic of scripts, say Grant for example, considering also only the reduced number of characters would of been just so imba.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 12, 2012)

Rod said:


> This thing still lacking Bruce and Clark iconic friendship interaction, this bugs me. :|



I would be highly surprised if "World's Finest" wasn't a rotating cast book. Right now it's huntress/ power girl, but im sure they'll do Bats / Supes, Red Robin / Superboy, etc. 

Or at least, I hope that's the case.


----------



## Slice (Jan 12, 2012)

For now i am glad there is a Powergirl book coming. Lets just hope it also is a good one.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Jan 12, 2012)

Not sure if want Earth 2, looking forward to Batman Inc though.


----------



## Memos (Jan 12, 2012)

Just wanna say how much I love Sinestro, and how he should always stay as a Green Lantern. The GL books, and the world as a whole is a better place with him around.

Yay, Sinestro!!


----------



## Nightblade (Jan 12, 2012)

I wonder if PG will be getting a new costume.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 12, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> My condolences to OMAC fans.



Knew it wasn't going to last but still that sucks. 

How long do they have left?


----------



## Memos (Jan 12, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Knew it wasn't going to last but still that sucks.
> 
> How long do they have left?



Apparently all 52 titles will get at least 12 issues, so not long now.

Men of War is the only one of the cancelled books I read anyway, so not a huge loss for me.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jan 12, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Knew it wasn't going to last but still that sucks.
> 
> How long do they have left?



Ah a shame about Men of War, I really liked that book. i'll be checking out most of the new ones though


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 12, 2012)

I heard the cancelled stories are only going until #8


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 12, 2012)

They should have promoted some of their lesser selling titles more. 

Men of War and Blackhawks could have been great series to crossover as some sort of black ops government army that dealt with superhuman threats. Stormwatch could have been connected to them somehow too. A darker version of superheroes I guess and possible rival to the Justice League. I would have been very interested in something like that. But instead they decide to release more Batman. 

A few more series about less traditional superheroes would be good.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jan 12, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> My condolences to OMAC fans.



oh fuck 



tari101190 said:


> They should have promoted some of their lesser selling titles more. Men of War and Blackhawks could have been great series to crossover as some sort of black ops government army that dealt with superhuman threats. Stormwatch could have been connected to them somehow too. A darker version of superheroes I guess and possible rival to the Justice League. I would have been very interested in something like that. But instead they decide to release more Batman.
> 
> A few more series about less traditional superheroes would be good.


it would've been awesome and it still can happen but they decide to give us more batman


----------



## Blinky (Jan 12, 2012)

> A few more series about less traditional superheroes would be good.



Actually we are getting that anyway.  



> DIAL H – Writer: China Mi?ville. Artist: Mateus Santoluoco. The first ongoing series from acclaimed novelist China Mi?ville, this is a bold new take on a cult classic concept about the psychological effects on an everyman who accidentally gains powers to become a hero.


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 12, 2012)

No they are cancelling three non-traditional superhero books to give us just one new one and 4 more traditional hero books including Batman.

Oh there are two more I guess, but I would have preffered Blackhawks and Men of War and maybe OMAC too. It is still a problem that they are cancelling the more unique books.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 12, 2012)

Well yeah see those books do not sell. Of course they're not going to push more of them.


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm saying the entire stratergy doesn't work they way they are selling them. Release more promotion for some sort of "event" or storyline involving the alternative/mature titles with decent artists and writers and they will sell atleast more than do now. 

If they put effort into other books instead of just releasing like 10 Batman books, things will be different. Not that i don't like Batman, but it's not right they way he is whored out.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 12, 2012)

So basically put more effort into a gamble that probably wouldn't pay off and even if it did it wouldn't pay off that much? It's not surprising they're not doing that.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 12, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> I'm saying the entire stratergy doesn't work they way they are selling them. Release more promotion for some sort of "event" or storyline involving the alternative/mature titles with decent artists and writers and they will sell atleast more than do now.
> 
> If they put effort into other books instead of just releasing like 10 Batman books, things will be different. Not that i don't like Batman, but it's not right they way he is whored out.



batman sells.

also fuck you guys for complaining about batman inc, which we knew was coming anyway but seriously fuck off.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 12, 2012)

Wait people were complaining abou INC? We've been hearing about the "season 2" since before we even heard of Leviathan Strikes.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck all that, the most important news is that China Mieville is *finally* doing a book!


----------



## MrChubz (Jan 12, 2012)

Really DC? You just had to cancel OMAC? You couldn't have cancelled TDK for Batman Incorporated and kept OMAC? You couldn't have just blown your nose with the piece of paper that was used to make Ravagers official? We all know that book will suck.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 12, 2012)

Given the artist that's on it?

Yeah

But it was purely a matter of sales. OMAC was in the bottom five but I don't think TDK was.

Also Huntress is Helena Wayne? The fuck?


----------



## MrChubz (Jan 12, 2012)

The reason I mentioned TDK is because with Batman Inc DC will have 9-10 Batfamily books (not even counting group titles with Batfamily members, or Redhood). You'd think it would be wise to phase out the shittiest part of the whole Bat-dozen.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 12, 2012)

They probably sap each other's sales in the long run but right now they are just cancelling the lowester sellers and Omac is it.

Plus the editor in chief using position to protect his own underselling book is bad for morale (I mean in theory. In practice most DC editors are so sucky it's hard to imagine them doing something right).


----------



## Platinum (Jan 12, 2012)

I kind of liked men of war .


----------



## illmatic (Jan 12, 2012)

Cromer said:


> Fuck all that, the most important news is that China Mieville is *finally* doing a book!



I don't think book/comics fandom have much overlap so he probably won't be able to get a hit based on name alone.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't think he was saying it was going to be a hit he's just looking forward to it.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 12, 2012)

China Mieville seems to have quite culty fans so I expect he'll be able to pull at least some other with him.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 12, 2012)

catching up on comics, swamp thing was awesome. and batwoman and demon knights


----------



## Blinky (Jan 12, 2012)

fucking love demon knights.


----------



## Rod (Jan 12, 2012)

Thar speculations going on that Grant is about to extend his run at the Batmythos to post Inc (or perhaps Lev) stuff.



Reminding, just if this is the case again, similar situation has happened a couple or more of times in past, he feels like done with the Bat and comment on it, but then, decides to continue.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jan 12, 2012)

none of the new books interest me, i may check out ravagers since its connected to superboy and teen titans though


----------



## hehey (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm sold on Ravagers pretty much since i'm totally digging the Superboy/Teen Titans K.N.O.W.H.E.R.E plot-line.


----------



## SageMaster (Jan 13, 2012)

I'm excited about the new Batman Inc and Earth 2 books.

Though, it is truly sad to see OMAC go. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Guess Franky outlasted OMAC in the long run


----------



## MrChubz (Jan 13, 2012)

OMACtivate!


----------



## Rod (Jan 13, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> I'm saying the entire stratergy doesn't work they way they are selling them. Release more promotion for some sort of "event" or storyline involving the alternative/mature titles with decent artists and writers and they will sell atleast more than do now.
> 
> If they put effort into other books instead of just releasing like 10 Batman books, things will be different. Not that i don't like Batman, but it's not right they way he is whored out.



I clearly pretty much endorse your initial point, mate.

Just not getting how they (first to second) correlate per se.


----------



## Nightblade (Jan 13, 2012)

just have Batman appear on every other book. problem solved.


----------



## Mael (Jan 13, 2012)

MrChubz said:


> Really DC? You just had to cancel OMAC? You couldn't have cancelled TDK for Batman Incorporated and kept OMAC? You couldn't have just blown your nose with the piece of paper that was used to make Ravagers official? We all know that book will suck.



Didn't you know?  Having every conceivable shred of the Batfamily or just keeping TDK garnered more profits even if the plots per issue might not have been as good as OMAC.

Hate to be so seething towards Bats but if this is what happens...

Stay away from Flash, Bruce.


----------



## illmatic (Jan 13, 2012)

I recall people wanted a girl team up book well you get Huntress & Powergirl.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 13, 2012)

So the thing everyone thought was going to happen totally happened.



> Notice anything missing from the DC section of Diamond Distributors’ list of books to be released next week…? Here’s a clue: It’s been the top-selling book for the last few months, and an embarrassing – but not necessarily surprising – choice for the first New 52 book to miss a scheduled ship date. Yes, Justice League #5 has been delayed according to current shipping updates, fulfilling every naysayer’s expectations since Jim Lee was announced as the series artist.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 13, 2012)

Taleran said:


> So the thing everyone thought was going to happen totally happened.


----------



## illmatic (Jan 13, 2012)

Jim Lee you have disappointed all of the NEW 52 fandom. 

What sort of example does it set if the boss can't do what he expects from his employes?


----------



## Blinky (Jan 13, 2012)

As if everyone didn't expect that


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 13, 2012)

heh with any other book theyd have just done fill in art


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 13, 2012)

Speaking of Jim Lee's fuck ups, isn;t he in charge of the artists at DC?



> This May, writer/artist Rob Liefeld will take on an expanded role in DC COMICS-THE NEW 52. He will be joining three titles – DEATHSTROKE, GRIFTER and THE SAVAGE HAWKMAN – beginning with their ninth issues.



: /


----------



## Blinky (Jan 13, 2012)

Well nothing I read so I'm good.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jan 13, 2012)

Rob Lifeild on Deathstroke?........it's finally come full circle


----------



## Cromer (Jan 13, 2012)

Liefeld would suit Hawkman...maybe we can finally see all that 90s X-TREME!!!! we were promised.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Jan 13, 2012)

So I take it this means Deathstroke is going to be awful soon?


----------



## Blinky (Jan 13, 2012)

Was it any good in the first place?


----------



## SageMaster (Jan 13, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Rob Lifeild on Deathstroke?........it's finally come full circle



This actually sounds cool.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 13, 2012)

holy shit, that is a serious downgrade on all those books.

I mean, hawkman at least looked fairly nice. what is wrong with DC, they're self destructive.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Jan 13, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Was it any good in the first place?



I thought so, death galore.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 13, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> holy shit, that is a serious downgrade on all those books.
> 
> I mean, hawkman at least looked fairly nice. what is wrong with DC, they're self destructive.



Yeah Rob Liefeld is more of a punchline than an artist now so what the hell are they doing?


----------



## Zen-aku (Jan 13, 2012)

DC when they decide to do some thing stupid they go all out don't they?


----------



## Rod (Jan 13, 2012)

He can draw perfectly, these days he just does that to take the piss. This Rob Liefield you see with erroneous anatomy and body fitness life style is no more than a character he created for himself, and from that awkward pov he's been sucessful at attracting these jokes attention. Prolly we've to approach his stories already having in mind a more lighthearted way or more of a relaxed not too demanding route.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jan 13, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Was it any good in the first place?



It's Decent. Deathstroke's problem is that it just doesn't offer enough in a issue to warrent continuously buying it.


----------



## illmatic (Jan 13, 2012)

Justice League 5 will hit shelves on January 25th.


----------



## Nightblade (Jan 13, 2012)

DC's new logo. makes me think of the Pixies in Fairly Odd Parents.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jan 13, 2012)

Nightblade said:


> DC's new logo. makes me think of the Pixies in Fairly Odd Parents.



That's...so bland looking


----------



## Rod (Jan 13, 2012)

Have yet to see: if it's a done deal, one of the proposals, or just a logo for a division of company.

Allow me to a practical example, Hilton has logos for Hotels and also for Corporations;


----------



## Nidaime Mizukage (Jan 15, 2012)

Nightblade said:


> DC's new logo. makes me think of the Pixies in Fairly Odd Parents.



it's just a logo... not a big deal, but I would've liked if they kept a star or some kind of graphic... oh well.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 16, 2012)

Their old logo was nothng special but at least you could tell it was DC.

Also despite a patronisingly fanservicy first issue and a high chance of cancellation... Does anyone else think Voodoo is kinda good?


----------



## Cromer (Jan 16, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Their old logo was nothng special but at least you could tell it was DC.
> 
> Also despite a patronisingly fanservicy first issue and a high chance of cancellation... Does anyone else think Voodoo is kinda good?



The new logo is dull. Worst thing to say about an entertainment company.


And I had to drop Voodoo;money issues. I will say that I enjoyed all the issues I got.


By the by, Suicide Squad has kept its upward trajectory of goodness.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 17, 2012)

Cromer said:


> By the by, Suicide Squad has kept its upward trajectory of goodness.


Really?  I wasn't crazy about the last issue.  The prison break.  It just wasn't that exciting.  Maybe this next arc will be better?


----------



## Memos (Jan 17, 2012)




----------



## Whimsy (Jan 17, 2012)

Wat                       .


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 17, 2012)

Birds of Prey is good but doesn't feel at all connected to any of the previous BoP stuff.

Also a little action heavy in a series that used to be very strong on non-action characterisation stuff.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 17, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Birds of Prey is good but doesn't feel at all connected to any of the previous BoP stuff.
> 
> Also a little action heavy in a series that used to be very strong on non-action characterisation stuff.



In this case you might be surprised to find that Gail Simone's character arc-heavy first run was actually the anomaly in Birds of Prey. Dixon was action heavy, McKeever as well, and you don't even wanna talk about Andreyko.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 17, 2012)

I didn't really like Dixon's run though, at least not the action filled main plot bits 

Also Katana is just straight up killing dudes now. I know it's kind of hard not to when your only weapon is a sword but seriously, I seem to recall the Birds having a very strict Batman rule.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 17, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Birds of Prey is good but doesn't feel at all connected to any of the previous BoP stuff.


That's sort of why I like it.

I think a good series will actually evolve.  Not a fan of stagnation.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 17, 2012)

So anybody else read the interview with CBR where Snyder says he didn't use Cass and Steph because DC has plans for them?

I know DC has had "plans" for years now, but...snyder wouldn't lie to us...would he!?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 17, 2012)

I might agree but I might not. Haven't decided, I'm kinda torn.

It feels disconnected but doesn't feel like they just threw everything in the trash like they did with Superboy or Cassie.

Plus everything is pretty top notch: Art, writing, jokes, fights...


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 17, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So anybody else read the interview with CBR where Snyder says he didn't use Cass and Steph because DC has plans for them?
> 
> I know DC has had "plans" for years now, but...snyder wouldn't lie to us...would he!?



Snyder wrote a piece on the interweb a few days ago where he explained what every member of the Batfam's (Including Jason and Babs) fave Elvis song would be... but missed out Steph and Cass.

I am not hopeful.

There have plans for Cass for at least three years but all she's done is show up in Gates of Gotham where she wasn't even the star (DickBats was) and had to share space with Damian and Tim.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 17, 2012)

Cassandra Cain is a character I desperately want to get to know.


----------



## Nightblade (Jan 17, 2012)

I hope those plans don't involve Adam Beechen.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 17, 2012)

It is a strange world when no one wants Barry to replace Wally, but Cass, the most requested character, is no where to be seen when there are so many preboot series she could be in.

Seriously, there are always a ton of Batbooks (Batman, Dectective Comics, Nightwing, Batgirl, Robin) she could have been in. She could have been in the Teen Titans. She could have been in The Birds of Prey. She could have been in The Justice League.

DC editorial is _wierd_

The reason Dr Who got revived is there was a metric fuckton of requests for it. Cass gets the same and _nadda._

Also Red Lanterns works better than I thought it would... except why does the blue angel chick have a costume that reveals her ass? WHY?

: /


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 17, 2012)

Nightblade said:


> I hope those plans don't involve Adam Beechen.



Was reading the pre-boot Zatanna series and in one issue Zatanna says she can't use her magic on living things. This is despite her having done so many many times in the series prior to that issue (It _was_ a weakness a while back but hasn't been for a long time).

Guess who the guest writer on that issue was?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 17, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> It is a strange world when no one wants Barry to replace Wally, but Cass, the most requested character, is no where to be seen when there are so many preboot series she could be in.
> 
> Seriously, there are always a ton of Batbooks (Batman, Dectective Comics, Nightwing, Batgirl, Robin) she could have been in. She could have been in the Teen Titans. She could have been in The Birds of Prey. She could have been in The Justice League.
> 
> DC editorial is _wierd_



Eh, I'll say in DC's defense that if they base their opinion off of message boards and what not, Cass fans are an extremely fickle bunch.

Basically, if Cass's role in a book isn't well done, its not "DC tried to throw cass a bone but it wasn't a right fit, at least they tried". It's "ADAM BEECHEN ALL OVER AGAIN OH MY GOD WHY DO THEY HATE ASIANS SO MUCH!"

Again, not saying all cass fans are like this (I know im certainly not), just that the more vocal cass supporters might make DC a bit wary.

So I can understand them keeping her out of BoP, NW, 'TEC, B & R if they're actually planning something with her. Especially since in a lot of those cases it would seem odd for her to be there. She doesn't really have a connection to Dick or Damian, so I could really only see her in the Birds or in Batgirl.

And with Birds attempting to be its own thing and Batgirl being totally focused on Babs, I can see why they'd wait.

However, Im still desperately hoping that dc project Brian Miller can't talk about is a Steph/Cass ongoing.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 17, 2012)

Oh man this cover is gonna piss people off.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 17, 2012)

Not me.  There are too many "purists" in the industry as it is.  Ultimately, I think the cover looks cool.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 17, 2012)

links from 4chan are blocked at work, what should I be pissed about?


----------



## Taleran (Jan 17, 2012)

Its not a 4chan link what are you talking about?

Haha I thought I had used tinypic but I used tinyurl, fixed now.


----------



## Slice (Jan 17, 2012)

Taleran said:


> Oh man this cover is gonna piss people off.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jan 17, 2012)

Taleran said:


> Oh man this cover is gonna piss people off.



Azzarello presents Diana Prince in The Woman with the Golden Guns


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 17, 2012)

Great Odin's Raven that cover is magnificent!


----------



## Blinky (Jan 17, 2012)

Instantly thought of Goldeneye 64. 

Golden gun is awesome.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 17, 2012)

They shoot love-bullets.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 17, 2012)

ghstwrld said:


> They shoot love-bullets.





When arrows don't penetrate...Cupid grabs the pistol!


----------



## Rukia (Jan 17, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Great Odin's Raven that cover is magnificent!


I think it looks really fucking cool personally.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 17, 2012)

So DC takes all the good will it has been getting recently and then sanctions this ad and manages to flush it all down the toilet.




Those photoshops from a while back are oddly fitting now.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 17, 2012)

I'm sorry, what?  That can't be real.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 17, 2012)

The beauty and horror of it is that it totally is.


----------



## illmatic (Jan 17, 2012)

> Earlier today, we linked to all of the exclusive previews of the fifth issues from DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 that are going on sale tomorrow.
> 
> Below, take a look at all the previews that ran (sorted alphabetically and separated by cover), compiled here in one easy location for your convenience.


----------



## illmatic (Jan 17, 2012)

> *STATIC SHOCK #8*
> Written by MARC BERNARDIN
> Art by SCOTT McDANIEL and ANDY OWENS
> Cover by KHARY RANDOLPH and LE BEAU UNDERWOOD
> ...






> *HAWK AND DOVE #8*
> Written by ROB LIEFELD
> Art and cover by ROB LIEFELD
> On sale APRIL 4 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T • FINAL ISSUE
> Rob Liefeld writes and illustrates this intense issue as Hawk and Dove face down the mysterious Hunter! Secrets are revealed and lines are crossed in an epic you have to see to believe! The race is on as Dove battles the Hunter’s lethal poison and Hawk desperately seeks a cure! Could this be the end for Hawk and Dove?






> *O.M.A.C. #8*
> Written by DAN DIDIO
> Art and cover by KEITH GIFFEN and SCOTT KOBLISH
> On sale APRIL 4 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T • FINAL ISSUE
> The end is here! It’s the battle we’ve all been waiting for: Checkmate vs. Brother Eye! Maxwell Lord leads an all-out counter attack against Brother Eye and O.M.A.C.! Don’t miss the shocking ending!






> *BLACKHAWKS #8*
> Written by MIKE COSTA
> Art by CAFU and BIT
> Cover by CAFU
> ...






> *MEN OF WAR #8*
> Written by JEFF LEMIRE and MATT KINDT
> Art by TOM DERENICK
> Cover by VIKTOR KALVACHEV
> ...


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jan 17, 2012)

Taleran said:


> So DC takes all the good will it has been getting recently and then sanctions this ad and manages to flush it all down the toilet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



is that for real?


----------



## Blinky (Jan 17, 2012)

WE GOTTA BURN ALL DEM JAPONESE COMICY BOOKS BOY HOWDY


----------



## Cromer (Jan 17, 2012)

I don't believe that's real. That's just ridiculous.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 17, 2012)

The best part however. Do you want to know where all the New52 are printed?


Quebec.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jan 17, 2012)

Cromer said:


> I don't believe that's real. That's just ridiculous.


 I don't think such kind of ads has being made since WWII or maybe the 80's


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 17, 2012)

Around 200+ pages of manga costs $10. The average dc comic is around $3 and that gets you, what, 20 maybe 22 pages. That sort of exchange is more insane than the totally out-of-nowhere hate.  

There's just no way...


----------



## Rukia (Jan 17, 2012)

Taleran said:


> So DC takes all the good will it has been getting recently and then sanctions this ad and manages to flush it all down the toilet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fuck you.  That's fake.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 17, 2012)

It is totally not fake.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 17, 2012)

fuck that's awful


----------



## Whimsy (Jan 17, 2012)

I so want that to be true

So utterly crass


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 17, 2012)

Do they just not look closely at what theyre approving?


----------



## Whimsy (Jan 17, 2012)

There's not looking closely, and then there's that.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jan 17, 2012)

Taleran said:


> It is totally not fake.



It's not a fake, but it's not DC, either. It was done by a comic book store (The name and address of which are clearly on the flyer), who intends to hand it out near an anime/manga convention.

And maybe it's because I watch a lot of the Colbert Report, but I this is a big deal now? It's stupid, but let's not make a ComicsAlliance Article out of a molehill here.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 17, 2012)

Yeah hence why I said it was 'sanctioned' by DC being the key word.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jan 17, 2012)

Ah, missed that originally. Sorry.

Edit: I seriously don't see what's "crass" about this, either. I mean, this isn't ripping off covers, or it doesn't show anime characters dead at the feet of the JLA or piles of burning manga. If that were the case, I'd agree. It's basically a bad SNL joke turned into advertising, nothing more.


----------



## Shadow (Jan 17, 2012)

I died of laughter
 [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu97XDIbyAE[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 17, 2012)

Anyone who starts Western/Eastern comic wank I will will Booster Gold into existence, travel back in time with him and abort you.

And guh, it's an advert for a local comic book store made by a local comicbook store. It says so on the poster.

Provide a link proving me wrong or shut the fuck up.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> However, Im still desperately hoping that dc project Brian Miller can't talk about is a Steph/Cass ongoing.



DCWomenKickingAss said no but I dunno what her source is.


----------



## Nightblade (Jan 17, 2012)

haha some of the old WW crowd already facepalming at #8's cover. 

WW gonna gunkata her way into Hades.


----------



## Slice (Jan 18, 2012)

That poster is terrible, and by that i especially mean the colors, font and text boxes.
Who designed this a ten year old?


----------



## Zen-aku (Jan 18, 2012)

Stay Classy DC, Stay Classy


----------



## Nightblade (Jan 18, 2012)

> Who designed this a ten year old?


it's signed "Jim Lee" on the side. must be that kid.


----------



## Mael (Jan 18, 2012)

> Anyone who starts Western/Eastern comic wank *I will will Booster Gold into existence*, *tarvel* back in time with him and abort you.



Heat of the moment post. 

But haters left out manwha. 

So often overlooked.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 18, 2012)

Nightblade said:


> haha some of the old WW crowd already facepalming at #8's cover.
> 
> WW gonna gunkata her way into Hades.



GAH! It's tongue in cheek, does no one appreciate that?

I'm more worried about Wondies huge breasts and wide shoulders compared to her tiny head and waist. Just looks weird.



Slice said:


> That poster is terrible, and by that i especially mean the colors, font and text boxes.
> Who designed this a ten year old?



Most people don't know how to use photoshop and comic book stores can't throw away money hiring professionals.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 18, 2012)




----------



## Cromer (Jan 18, 2012)

I just scared my roomie when I broke into braying laughter.

EDIT: 5 years on, 4,000 posts! Now for the next thousand...not likely, is it?


----------



## Narutossss (Jan 18, 2012)

my abs got a workout after all that laughing


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 18, 2012)

Cromer said:


> I just scared my roomie when I broke into braying laughter.
> 
> EDIT: 5 years on, 4,000 posts! Now for the next thousand...not likely, is it?



A mere 4000 ?


----------



## MrChubz (Jan 18, 2012)

Whoever thought it was a good idea to have upside down pages in Batman should be punched. I shouldn't need to turn my head upside down to be able to read a digital comic. You could blame the digital software for not hiving a flip feature, but something like that shouldn't ever be needed.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 18, 2012)

sounds unintentional chubz


----------



## Penance (Jan 18, 2012)

...Alas...goodbye, again, Static...

Dial 'H', though!


----------



## MrChubz (Jan 18, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> sounds unintentional chubz



At the very least DC could have scanned the comic upside down.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 18, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> A mere 4000 ?



I basically dropped out of NF between 2008/09. Besides, I often spend 5 hours straight on NF, and post maybe 3 times. I still enjoy just seeing what people have to say about different topics of which I may be ignorant. Or making utter fools of themselves, I'm not sure which


----------



## Cromer (Jan 18, 2012)

MrChubz said:


> Whoever thought it was a good idea to have upside down pages in Batman should be punched. I shouldn't need to turn my head upside down to be able to read a digital comic. You could blame the digital software for not hiving a flip feature, but something like that shouldn't ever be needed.



I knew it was going to be bad when I saw the review on CBR praising the 'clear, visual representation of Bruce's state of mind and the trick works perfectly' part. And since I only get trades in hardcopy these days, I know I'm not gonna enjoy this issue.

(Still broke though, so not reading it yet)



Petes12 said:


> sounds unintentional chubz



Very intentional. I think the guys reading it on paper might enjoy it better; us iPad warriors gonna have to suck it up.


Penance said:


> ...Alas...goodbye, again, Static...
> 
> Dial 'H', though!



Someone else who realizes just how awesome a China Mieville regular is gonna be!


----------



## MrChubz (Jan 18, 2012)

The issue was awesome, it was just a pain in the ass to read.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jan 18, 2012)

ghstwrld said:


> They shoot love-bullets.



That's what I immediately noticed. 

Cover looks fine to me. Purists gonna pure.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 19, 2012)

ok i see what you mean by batman. but it was pretty good regardless. so was wonder woman, even with the fill in artist.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 19, 2012)

I don't think it was to the issue's detriment, but it wasn't the "OMG SO COOL SO IMMERSIVE" thing they were going for, although apparently it worked on CBR ha.

And comic readers should be able to flip/turn images. This isn't the first time something like this has been done.

EDIT: I mean comic reading programs, not actual people who read comics....


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 19, 2012)

Wow, Gail Simone said she wanted to have Starling from Birds of Prey in Batgirl, for two panels, asleep, and editorial nixed it.

The hell is up with editorial?

If it was, like, Atrocius, I could understand. But Babs is in Birds of Prey! They're totally connected!


----------



## Cromer (Jan 19, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Wow, Gail Simone said she wanted to have Starling from Birds of Prey in Batgirl, for two panels, asleep, and editorial nixed it.
> 
> The hell is up with editorial?
> 
> If it was, like, Atrocius, I could understand. But Babs is in Birds of Prey! They're totally connected!



Editorial is the real reason the momentum generated by the reboot will fizzle away...it was haphazard enough as is.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 19, 2012)

I dunno. I mean the reboot sold well because everyone wanted to try the series but few can afford 52 new series every month (Plus whatever Marvel and indie they buy). And the bad series were never going to sell anyway and the good series were either going to take off or not (Not like a good series has never failed to sell Manhnter, original Blue Beetle ect ect).

Don't get me wrong, there's no shortage of dumb decisions that can be traced back to editorial. But even though, say, Cry for Justice had the awful editorially mandated death of Lian, Robinson and the artist still added a load of fail by themselves.

As far as I know all the dumb shit Lobell has done has at least been as much him as editorial. Every time I've seen him speak he seems to show he totally doesn;t understand the charcaters he is writing. Likewise, Duane and Jesus have done a great job with the Birds while actually rebooting them.


----------



## Slice (Jan 19, 2012)

This week for me Aquaman and Supergirl completely fell flat. Unfortunately i didn't enjoy these too much.
Wonder Woman and Batman were really good but Batman felt a bit short.
Red Hood and friends had its best issue yet, which doesn't say much but i can see an improvement. Catwoman is on the way down again after 3 & 4 had my interest rising for a bit.

Best DC book i read this week is probably Wonder Woman.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 19, 2012)

Yeah I can only speak for myself but my reading has dropped to 2.5 of the New52 (Wonder Woman, Flash, .5 is Action because I am reading it because of who it is over what is happening)


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 19, 2012)

editorial is absolutely definitely the weakest link at DC. It blows my mind how quickly they mess things up.


And Supergirl really is a pretty good book and continues to be, but I'm totally turned off by one silly thing, and that's that her powers are of the ridiculously op kryptonian variety.


Flying through space, hearing all over the world, its all bullshit


----------



## Slice (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm expecting her to be kind of "overcharging" at the moment since she is new to the yellow sun surroundings with her powers dropping down to a more manageable level soon.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 19, 2012)

Overpowered Kryptonians, nothing new. Just give them something challenging to fight.

I'm not adverse to a powerdown though.

Anyway, this is the DC discussion thread. Can you guys recommend me your fave DC comics series and runs? I feel like there is a lot of good stuff I'm missing out on.


Only post-Crisis mind you


----------



## Slice (Jan 19, 2012)

Let me be the first to say: Morrison Batman.


----------



## Mael (Jan 19, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Taleran (Jan 20, 2012)

I didn't realize that the series being cancelled were being canned at #8, which is an incredible dick move because the trades are 6 issues and will be out right as the books vanish so there is no chance to judge the amout of people waiting for the trade, also 12 is such a round number that it makes more sense. Even being someone not reading any of the 6 series.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 20, 2012)

Slice said:


> Wonder Woman and Batman were really good


Let's talk about Wonder Woman for a second.  #1 all of these covers are great.  But the content.  My lord the content.  So much better than I could have ever expected.  I keep expecting Wonder Woman to fall back down to mediocrity.  I just don't see how they can keep this sort of quality going.

Speaking of great covers.  Batwoman.  JH Williams is doing some exceptional work.  He's not getting nearly enough credit for it.  Wish he were working on a higher profile series.

Batman feels short every week.  I haven't spent a lot of time investigating why.  My theory is that it seems short because I want the chapter to continue.  The writing has been fantastic so far.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 20, 2012)

Bird was good but not enough happened.

Supergirl was the same but the setup for future stories was good

The current Batman story is what I'd write: A Batman like Hunter capable of taking him on

And yes, I am waitin for the trades too


----------



## Rukia (Jan 20, 2012)

Waiting for Birds of Prey.  One of my subscriptions.  Liked the first four issues at least.  Don't necessarily have a good feel for the future though.  Do you know what I mean?  Things just don't seem to be headed in an exciting direction.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 20, 2012)

I am excited and I want to keep reading.

As for long term, I think it is too soon to tell with any of these books really. They're all still in the first arc and comics sales ain't what they used to be.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 20, 2012)

Maybe Issue #5 will ease my concerns.  This is sort of how I view it.  A threat was revealed at the end of issue 4.  The girls were surrounded by fodder.  I think they will handle these guys pretty easily.  Katana will probably kill half of them.  The fodder apparently has a leader; not an impressive looking leader.  I thought of Shredder and the Foot Clan when I saw that organization.  

The Birds have also already figured out how to deal with their bomb threat.  Some doctor/scientist at a community college was able to figure that shit out.  

But I'll wait and see.  I'm due to receive 11 more issues before I make a renewal decision.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 20, 2012)

No, at the end of issue #4 they were surrounded by fodder and then they were out in the street having no idea how they got out there.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 20, 2012)

So #5 focuses on investigation?

That's the one bad thing about subscribing to comics.  I can go to a book story and buy them the day they are released.  I can download them online the day they are released.  It's hard to wait a week.  I've been very tempted a few times to just suck it up and buy a duplicate.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 20, 2012)

I don't want to spoil 5 by saying what it is or isn't except for hot lesbian action.


----------



## Rod (Jan 21, 2012)

Dr. Hurt said:


> Kyer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



^  

10chars


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 21, 2012)

JLA has been fun but lacks the greatness the charactersinvolved demand. I mean Darkseid just showed up and everyone is still bickering.

Not exactly the epic origins the premier Superheroes in all comics demand.

Never read JLA: year One though so maybe it's no better.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 21, 2012)

Given John's pedigree with 'big' superheroes, I think we all had a right to expect a lot more from JL than we've gotten.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 21, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Batman feels short every week.  I haven't spent a lot of time investigating why.  My theory is that it seems short because I want the chapter to continue.  The writing has been fantastic so far.



must be because snyder always packs in plenty of text


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 24, 2012)

Bleeding Cool said:
			
		

> He’s done gangbusters for DC Comics, taking C-list character Animal Man, whose return to the DC Universe from DC Vertigo had been lacklustre at best, and turned him into a surprise critical and commercial hit as part of the DC New 52.
> 
> So it’s only natural that DC might tap him for any other bright ideas.
> 
> ...



Not even Jeff Lemire can make me think this is a good idea. Well, it might be a good idea, if 3/4 characters didn't already have books focused on them.

/I know DC says TT focuses on Tim, but with 6 other "main" characters? Meh...


----------



## Parallax (Jan 24, 2012)

sounds like a tough time to be a Robin fan


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Jan 24, 2012)

Hey, is there any new 52 comic better than Batwing? 

I read all five issues recently, and I was amazed. There isn't a single thing I dislike about it, and the art in issue 1-5 (minus 3) was spectacular. David is really a like able character. Many of the traits associated with Batman flow into him, yet evolve in such a way that he's noticeably different. Obviously he's meant to be, but it's just done so well. I didn't think in this day and age that a batman posse character could stand out more than Bats. But low and behold it has happened. I hope batwing never joins a team or takes on some global level super bad guy. Keep him in Africa!

Also, I look forward to seeing him fuck up massacre even worse than the teaser in the first issue.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 24, 2012)

If that Robin's name is Steph, yeah, it is.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 24, 2012)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Hey, is there any new 52 comic better than Batwing?
> 
> I read all five issues recently, and I was amazed. There isn't a single thing I dislike about it, and the art in issue 1-5 (minus 3) was spectacular. David is really a like able character. Many of the traits associated with Batman flow into him, yet evolve in such a way that he's noticeably different. Obviously he's meant to be, but it's just done so well. I didn't think in this day and age that a batman posse character could stand out more than Bats. But low and behold it has happened. I hope batwing never joins a team or takes on some global level super bad guy. Keep him in Africa!
> 
> Also, I look forward to seeing him fuck up massacre even worse than the teaser in the first issue.



It's pretty good but there are better books yeah


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 24, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Not even Jeff Lemire can make me think this is a good idea. Well, it might be a good idea, if 3/4 characters didn't already have books focused on them.
> 
> /I know DC says TT focuses on Tim, but with 6 other "main" characters? Meh...



get rid of jason and I am more than ok with the concept of the book. dick tim and damian all have nice interactions with one another. 

idk about lemire though honestly. yes he's kicking ass on animal man but I remember superboy


----------



## Blinky (Jan 24, 2012)

I'll believe that when I see it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 24, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> get rid of jason and I am more than ok with the concept of the book. dick tim and damian all have nice interactions with one another.
> 
> idk about lemire though honestly. yes he's kicking ass on animal man but I remember superboy



At that point though I kind of just would rather it be a Tim solo book, since at that point all 3 of them would have books that could easily bring in the others. Or it could just be that I'm grumpy that Tim got the short end of the reboot stick despite...huh.

Is there any other bat character besides batman himself that had an ongoing for 20 years?


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 24, 2012)

haven't we several times lamented the loss of dick and damian teamups? damian who most certainly doesn't appear in nightwing


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 24, 2012)

I'd rather see an arcs/issues in their own titles that pairs the characters then a book built solely around the dynamic between the robins.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 25, 2012)

Any particular reason?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 25, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Any particular reason?



Ha pretty much because I'd rather Tim get a solo book, and I know with the 52 every new bat series makes that less likely. I dunno, if they were gonna do this I'd rather it be a team up book for all bat characters, not just the robins.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 25, 2012)

Richard Friend posted some Dark Knight pages on facebook yesterday so I decided to buy the book.  The Finch/Friend partnership produces decent art.  I've never disliked the book because of the art.  And I think the Scarecrow art was pretty good here.  Superman looked nice too.  But the story is just so incredibly mediocre.  Hard to overlook such a major flaw.


*Spoiler*: __ 



I do typically like Superman/Batman encounters though.


Not a horrible buy.  But there are at least a dozen or so better choices.


----------



## Memos (Jan 25, 2012)

Another issue of Justice League, another name we can add to the list of people who have kicked Hal's ass.

And that Batman moment was just stupid.


----------



## MrChubz (Jan 25, 2012)

I liked JL. Darkseid porn is always quality.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 25, 2012)

Too many Bat books not involving the Bat ladies

Robins without Steph and Cass can fuck right off


----------



## Rukia (Jan 25, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Too many Bat books not involving the Bat ladies
> 
> Robins without Steph and Cass can fuck right off


I agree man.  Have they done any popularity polls lately?  I'm curious to see how Steph and Cass stack up.

And the new DC logo sucks ass.  My god.  Horrible.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 25, 2012)

So they've started using the 'new' logo already? Dumbasses.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 25, 2012)

Rukia said:


> I agree man.  Have they done any popularity polls lately?  I'm curious to see how Steph and Cass stack up.
> 
> And the new DC logo sucks ass.  My god.  Horrible.



In polling on comic book resources Steph falls quite a bit behind Dick, Damian and Tim who are all in the top ten. She's in the twenty something and Cass I think is behind her... I forget...

That said they both pwn the shit out of a lot of other characters who are perpetual members of Teams or their own titles.


----------



## Mael (Jan 25, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Too many Bat books not involving the Bat ladies
> 
> Robins without Steph and Cass can fuck right off



I'm just going to stick to The Flash for now.  The rage over who's in and who's not is getting to be too much.

That and I can be guaranteed good writing with The Flash.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 25, 2012)

Yes we get it people talking about Batman annoys you. 

I'm fucking loving All-Star Western. I might check out the Jonah Hex series from before the relaunch.


----------



## Nightblade (Jan 26, 2012)

heh, so Batman reveals his identity to a guy who can't even keep Flash's identity a secret.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 26, 2012)

Nightblade said:


> heh, so Batman reveals his identity to a guy who can't even keep Flash's identity a secret.



I love the that GL has no idea who Bruce Wayne is. But yea, it was a bit suspect, although I can understand Bruce wanting GL to see him as an actual person as opposed to batman, making him more likely to take his advice.

And I love that GL is officially the Leeroy Jenkins of the Justice League. "Green Lantern's got this!"


----------



## Taleran (Jan 26, 2012)

Flash #5 was too much plotting not enough Manapul being artistically interesting.


----------



## Mael (Jan 26, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Yes we get it people talking about Batman annoys you.



Sorry I guess the whole "OMG why is X not in and why is Y made like this?" ad infinitum wore down my enthusiasm towards the Bats.



			
				Taleran said:
			
		

> Flash #5 was too much plotting not enough Manapul being artistically interesting.



Everyone slips here and there...but I'll see what #6 has to offer to redeem.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 26, 2012)

I just read Birds of Prey #5.  And the one scene I really want to comment on is the one between Katana and Black Canary.  Katana tracks Canary down and the two of them spar.  I like the scene for two reasons.

The Birds of Prey are a team.  This is a new series.  These characters have only been together for 5 issues.  Most of their time has been spent investigating.  They haven't really interacted.  I like that we got a little of that this chapter.  I also like the scene because it was the first time we have seen Katana fight without her sword.  Makes her martial arts background a little more prominent in my opinion.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 27, 2012)

I do need to catch up on BoP...

Also, more proof that the DC Forums need to be firebombed. In TT #5, Wonder Girl puntastically says that her lasso is "a *grift* from the gods"

Naturally, people missed the point completely and are cancelling the book because they think its a typo.

Or, because grift technicaly means swindle/cheat and not steal, that its wrong and lobdell is an idiot.


----------



## Memos (Jan 27, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I do need to catch up on BoP...
> 
> Also, more proof that the DC Forums need to be firebombed. In TT #5, Wonder Girl puntastically says that her lasso is "a *grift* from the gods"
> 
> ...



Are you saying people are seriously dropping a book because of what they think is a typo?


----------



## Mael (Jan 27, 2012)

God forbid people screw up the English language in print.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 27, 2012)

Memos said:


> Are you saying people are seriously dropping a book because of what they think is a typo?



A few yes.
It's really just DC forums posters being whiny.


----------



## Mael (Jan 27, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> A few yes.
> It's really just DC forums posters being whiny.



I've been seeing this issue grow.

They're fucking comics people...just read them.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 27, 2012)

Run down:

JL is good but the pacing is still too slow. Darkseid isn't getting the kind of hype he deserves and is focuses too much on Bat/GL. It really seems like the opening of a slash fic before they get down and dirty.

Flash was dull, Barry is still bland and the conclusio to mob rule was mornic and inconsistent.

I Vampire: The chick and Batman are detracting from Andrew's awesome

Voodoo was okay, bit odd bit silly but I'll see where they're going with this before really condeming it

Aquaman was good but as usual overshadowed by Mera



Nightblade said:


> heh, so Batman reveals his identity to a guy who can't even keep Flash's identity a secret.



I thought it made sense: The stakes are high and he needs Hal to listen to him right now. Batman doesn't matter much if the world gets destroyed afterall.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> I love the that GL has no idea who Bruce Wayne is. But yea, it was a bit suspect, although I can understand Bruce wanting GL to see him as an actual person as opposed to batman, making him more likely to take his advice.
> 
> And I love that GL is officially the Leeroy Jenkins of the Justice League. "Green Lantern's got this!"



I find Hal's behaviour in JL to be totally in keeping with that I know of his character.



Rukia said:


> I just read Birds of Prey #5.  And the one scene I really want to comment on is the one between Katana and Black Canary.  Katana tracks Canary down and the two of them spar.  I like the scene for two reasons.
> 
> The Birds of Prey are a team.  This is a new series.  These characters have only been together for 5 issues.  Most of their time has been spent investigating.  They haven't really interacted.  I like that we got a little of that this chapter.  I also like the scene because it was the first time we have seen Katana fight without her sword.  Makes her martial arts background a little more prominent in my opinion.



I liked it too



Whip Whirlwind said:


> I do need to catch up on BoP...
> 
> Also, more proof that the DC Forums need to be firebombed. In TT #5, Wonder Girl puntastically says that her lasso is "a *grift* from the gods"
> 
> ...



In fairness TT is an abomination that should be cancelled anyway.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 27, 2012)

Of course so were the previous volumes of teen titans


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 27, 2012)

Editing let one slip by.

On a different note, I'm rather enjoying JL Dark.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 27, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I thought it made sense: The stakes are high and he needs Hal to listen to him right now. Batman doesn't matter much if the world gets destroyed afterall.



Exactly, Hal is much more likely to listen to an actual person. That and everyone should know by now that in the superhero community, revealing your secret identity is the ultimate "Im trusting you so you need to trust me" power move. 



> I find Hal's behaviour in JL to be totally in keeping with that I know of his character.



Especially considering that this is early Hal



> In fairness TT is an abomination that should be cancelled anyway.



Agreed



Petes12 said:


> Of course so were the previous volumes of teen titans



Excluding NTT of course. And Johns' run wasn't bad. The only problem is that he set the status quo for the last however many years of Teen Titans (with the core roster being young justice) and NOBODY else has been able to make that work at all.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 27, 2012)

batman using a sports metaphor was weird.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 27, 2012)

Also is breaking Hal's arm John's substitute for cutting it off?

And v3 TT had some seriously shitty writers and arcs but it was nothing like the abomination of their rebooted counterparts.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 27, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> batman using a sports metaphor was weird.



I saw it as him speaking in the most hal friendly way possible ha.

And Pink, you can't tell me this TT is worse than Felicia Henderson's.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 27, 2012)

Yes it was. Or worse. Teen Titans has just basically always been a shit book with a shit concept and lots of shit mythology to it, skating by on characters that are good on their own.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 27, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> And Pink, you can't tell me this TT is worse than Felicia Henderson's.



Which issues were those ?____?

What I'm saying is whatever you dislike about TTv3 it was never a complete break with the past like the reboot and unlike the BoP reboot of value has been brought to the table while stuff about characters I love has been irrevocably changed.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 27, 2012)

The problems with V3TT

1) Lots of people who were Young Justice fans hate how the charcaters were changed

2) The creative staff post-Johns changed every ten seconds

3) So did the team roster except for Wonder Girl

4) Characters got killed off all the time

5) All of this resulted in inconsistent characterisation and plot point and themes being introduced and never followed up upon

6) A cultish obsession with the core-four and certain NTTs, like they are the key to success

Up and down its a case of editorial fuckery and creato fail. Put a good writer on the book, give them a decent artist and leave them to write what they like and there's no reason it can't be good. DC has a ton of great teen Superheroes.

I mean Bryan Q Miller and Dustin Nygen with the roster in that concept art of the series that never was? I'd buy the shit out of that!


----------



## Taleran (Jan 28, 2012)

So Geoff Johns does the absolute worst Darkseid that has ever appeared in comics.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 28, 2012)

I switched my subscription today.  I just don't feel like I am getting any enjoyment out of Action Comics.  Batwoman on the other hand has been great.  Looking forward to getting hard copies for now on.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 28, 2012)

Taleran said:


> So Geoff Johns does the absolute worst Darkseid that has ever appeared in comics.



You mean worse than Countdown where he was waiting about on Mary Marvel's couch? Or Action Comics 592/593 where he is waiting on Scott's couch to tell him his agents have brought him porn staring Barda?

If you think that you haven't read much Darkseid. When done well he'd badass but he's been all over the DCU and used badly. Morrison's and the DCAU's Darkseids are the exception rather than the rule : /


----------



## Blinky (Jan 28, 2012)

Darkseid on a couch is the best thing ever.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 28, 2012)

Darkseid has been used so horribly, and jobbed so often that right now I'm looking at a CB Rumbles thread pitting Darkseid against Sinestro.


And most people are actually saying Sinestro wins.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 28, 2012)

Not unless he has half his Corps with him...


----------



## Taleran (Jan 28, 2012)

No this is worse because here Darkseid doesn't even say anything he just grunts and attacks for no reason at least in all those other stories there was at least a plan that he was clearly in control of (even if said plan was retarded)

This just makes him into Doomsday.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 28, 2012)

Hmmmmm, it just doesn't seem very Darkseidy. He's the mastmind by an entire world, he's someone who you should meet lieutentans and proxies of and hear rumours about before you fight him. He should just "Turn up" for seemingly no reason other than the joy of trashing other worlds.

I expect a less than epic origin reboot : /


----------



## Narutossss (Jan 28, 2012)

LOOL since when did hal become the leader of JL?
Hal's right arm still being attached to his body after a darkseid attack.
Hal not knowing who bruce is?
Bats taken off his mask, cape and bat logo. So what is he now? just a man in jump suit.
Barry out running the omega beam but it solo'ing sups.
Darkseid doing his own grunt work?


----------



## Rukia (Jan 28, 2012)

Yeah.  I can't defend it.  Justice League sucks.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 29, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> Hal not knowing who bruce is?


 obviously to show that 5 years ago wayne enterprises wasn't as famous as it is now. 



> Barry out running the omega beam but it solo'ing sups.



so what?


----------



## Pesky Bug (Jan 29, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> Barry out running the omega beam but it solo'ing sups.


In all fairness, he didn't actually outrun it, he just made it hit something else before it hit *him*.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 29, 2012)

It's not that suprising Hal doesn't know who he is. For starters he spends a lot of time in outerspace and it seems unlikely he reads either the gossip columns or the business section so how would he know who he is.

I mean how many major CEOs would you guys recognise on sight?

Also is Wondy the only major JL member who has never been killed? I'm not counting Cyborg because he's not a regular but everyone else has died at some point.

The only other regular I can think of who has never died is Black Canary...


----------



## Cromer (Jan 29, 2012)

They can't afford to kill them; they're the only women around!


----------



## Parallax (Jan 29, 2012)

Wonder Woman died at some point.  I don't know where from exactly but it's referenced in Blackest Night as well as Morrison's JLA of all places


----------



## Rukia (Jan 29, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Yeah.  I can't defend it.  Justice League sucks.


I received a JLD issue in the mail yesterday so I finally got a chance it read it.  It was very good.  I like that all of the so-called members didn't just arrive at the same spot a la The Justice League.  This partnership has been far more gradual.

Some really good chaos taking place this issue.  Mass murder at the mall.  Children turning on adults at daycare.

Zatanna certainly got her ass whooped.  Her magic is no match for the magic of Enchantress.

Deadman meeting with the Shade should be interesting.  I think there is a bright future for the series.  I hope it is selling pretty well.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 29, 2012)

I need to start reading JLD again, I got the first issue and thought it was enjoyable


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 29, 2012)

If you want to read a comic book that sucks read Batgirl or Mr Terrific.

Justice League doesn't suck, it's just unworthy of the pedigree of the characters, team and creators involved.

Still, there are many more better books currently on going.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 29, 2012)

Issue #8 is the last issue of OMAC?  Well shit.  I thought it was starting to get pretty interesting.


----------



## Narutossss (Jan 29, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> so what?





Pesky Bug said:


> In all fairness, he didn't actually outrun it, he just made it hit something else before it hit *him*.


So you're telling me superman couldn't come up with a decent solution from getting solo'ed by the omega beam like barry did.


The Pink Ninja said:


> Justice League doesn't suck, it's just unworthy of the pedigree of the characters, team and creators involved.
> 
> Still, there are many more better books currently on going.


JL isn't a bad book... jim lee's drawing it even though it's not his best work. just this book has alot of moments that make me go WTF? 
as for good books, Snyder and capullo's batman... damn. BTW I only recently started getting into comics, up until I've only watched the cartoons. One thing I don't like about DC is how they keep going backwards instead of forward,
I mean why delete wally west just to bring back fucking Barry Allen.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 29, 2012)

Because Geoff Johns just loves him some Silver Age


----------



## Parallax (Jan 29, 2012)

You can't really fully blame Johns for bringing back Barry

Editorial and Morrison also had some to do with that


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 29, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> So you're telling me superman couldn't come up with a decent solution from getting solo'ed by the omega beam like barry did.



Yes. Superman can't vibrate through people. And he's slower.


----------



## Narutossss (Jan 29, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Yes. Superman can't vibrate through people. And he's slower.


you don't need to vibrate through people and have superhuman speed to avoid it. Batman pulled it off in the cartoons, you just need to make it hit someone else but I guess supes is far too stupid to have thought of that.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 29, 2012)

That was the cartoon, this is the comic.


----------



## Narutossss (Jan 29, 2012)

Blinky said:


> That was the cartoon, this is the comic.


I know but doesn't using darkseids mindless grunts as a shield work almost as well as vibrating through one so it hits them and not you?


----------



## Blinky (Jan 29, 2012)

It happened pretty quickly. Flash being the Flash knew how to react pretty quickly.


----------



## Narutossss (Jan 29, 2012)

I guess I can buy into that but I just didn't like how supes got the short end of the stick and became the damsel in distress.


----------



## MrChubz (Jan 29, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> I know but doesn't using darkseids mindless grunts as a shield work almost as well as vibrating through one so it hits them and not you?



The Omega Beams can phase through objects. So in a word, no.


----------



## Narutossss (Jan 29, 2012)

so darkseid's grunts are objects? comic book logic...


----------



## MrChubz (Jan 29, 2012)

They consist of matter. So in a word, yes.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 30, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> I guess I can buy into that but I just didn't like how supes got the short end of the stick and became the damsel in distress.


oh my god superman is fallible and not quite a god! this is terrible!

no. fuck off with that attitude.

besides the obvious purpose of it is so Johns can have batman go after him and have a way to establish a closer friendship or whatever between them.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 30, 2012)

and ends in gay homosex


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 30, 2012)

That's redundant twice.


----------



## Blinky (Jan 30, 2012)

ur redundant twice


----------



## Cash (Jan 30, 2012)

Batman gonna go crazy on that ass. Big weird eye and all.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 30, 2012)

That was a tricky book to read.  I felt like I was in the maze.  Very effective.


----------



## Cash (Jan 30, 2012)

Flash issue was sooooooo good. so so good. I just love seeing him find out more about his abilities. Art was great too.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jan 30, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> It's not that suprising Hal doesn't know who he is. For starters he spends a lot of time in outerspace and it seems unlikely he reads either the gossip columns or the business section so how would he know who he is.
> 
> I mean how many major CEOs would you guys recognise on sight?
> 
> ...





The Pink Ninja said:


> If you want to read a comic book that sucks read Batgirl or Mr Terrific.
> 
> Justice League doesn't suck, it's just unworthy of the pedigree of the characters, team and creators involved.
> 
> Still, there are many more better books currently on going.



Pink Ninja and I are pretty much on the same wavelength here.


----------



## Penance (Jan 30, 2012)

Blinky said:


> ur redundant twice



Redundant twice is redundant thrice...


----------



## Blinky (Jan 31, 2012)

So Jeff Lemire is taking over JL Dark.


----------



## Memos (Jan 31, 2012)

That is fantastic news.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 31, 2012)

But he is also leaving Frankenstein :/.

Although the guy they have replacing him sounds pretty legit. His pitch of focusing more on SHADE as an organization and doing a double agent storyline as "Tinker Tailer Soldier Spy...but with monsters" sounds pretty awesome.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 31, 2012)

Blinky said:


> So Jeff Lemire is taking over JL Dark.


What does that mean for the art?  Is he bringing someone with him to collaborate?

Speaking of art.  I enjoy the work of Ed Benes.  I wish he were working on a series that I actually read.  He is especially talented at drawing female characters.  A talent he doesn't get to use that much on the Red Lantern series.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 31, 2012)

benes is laughably cheesecakey


----------



## Blinky (Jan 31, 2012)

Artist is staying the same. Pity because when the news broke I assumed this was the project he had with Cully Hamner.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 31, 2012)

Rukia said:


> What does that mean for the art?  Is he bringing someone with him to collaborate?
> 
> Speaking of art.  I enjoy the work of Ed Benes.  I wish he were working on a series that I actually read.  He is especially talented at drawing female characters.  A talent he doesn't get to use that much on the Red Lantern series.





Petes12 said:


> benes is laughably cheesecakey



If Benes is the dude drawing Red Lantern then yeah. He is a good drawerer but the way Bleez's ass takes ups most of the panels she's in makes me feel sleazy.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 31, 2012)

Rukia said:


> What does that mean for the art?  Is he bringing someone with him to collaborate?
> 
> Speaking of art.  I enjoy the work of Ed Benes.  I wish he were working on a series that I actually read.  He is especially talented at drawing female characters.  A talent he doesn't get to use that much on the Red Lantern series.



Have you read any of the previous Birds of Prey series? A lot of it is by Simone/Benes.



Petes12 said:


> benes is laughably cheesecakey



But yeah totally this.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jan 31, 2012)

The difference usually is Simone actually works the sex/sexiness into the comic...


----------



## Nightblade (Jan 31, 2012)

Benes is good at drawing T&A. not so big on facial reactions.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 31, 2012)

That's why I said he isn't able to use that skill with Red Lantern.


----------



## Cromer (Feb 1, 2012)

Ed Benes art can go burn in nuclear fire.


----------



## Rukia (Feb 1, 2012)

Nothing good coming out today.  


Cromer said:


> Ed Benes art can go burn in nuclear fire.


Which artists do you guys like?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 1, 2012)

Rukia said:


> *Nothing good coming out today*.  Which artists do you guys like?



Animal Man comes out today.


----------



## Rukia (Feb 1, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Animal Man comes out today.


I don't read it.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Feb 1, 2012)

Green Arrow lololololololollollollollolololololololol


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 1, 2012)

Rukia said:


> I don't read it.



That's cool, you just said that no good books are coming out today, and Animal Man is most certainly good.

Action Comics is pretty good too.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Feb 1, 2012)

Also, Swamp Thing. 

That, Animal Man, and Action Comics are the three good comics this week imo.


----------



## Rukia (Feb 1, 2012)

Rob said:


> Green Arrow lololololololollollollollolololololololol


I expect the new television series to be pretty awful.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 1, 2012)

The worst thing is that a Green Arrow show could actually be good.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Feb 1, 2012)

Maybe

I have higher hopes for the Jessica Jones show.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 1, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Nothing good coming out today.  Which artists do you guys like?


Off the top of my head

Coipel, Opena, JHW3, Maleev, Quitely, Mahnke, Gleason, Yu (although I hated him on secret invasion), Manapul, McNiven...


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 1, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> The worst thing is that a Green Arrow show could actually be good.



Naaaa it's green arrow


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Feb 1, 2012)

Rob said:


> Also, Swamp Thing.
> 
> That, Animal Man, and Action Comics are the three good comics this week imo.



and stormwatch


----------



## Cromer (Feb 1, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Nothing good coming out today.  Which artists do you guys like?



Cheechetto is my absolute favourite comic book artist. Dou gBraithwaite is good, Sami Basri and Marcus To as well. JHW3 does the most pinup worthy art in the biz. I like the new guy Asrar on Supergirl. And Rags Morales is winning me over.


And here's my own departure from the norm: there are some stories where I will accept Rob Liefeld or nothing. Utterly serious here.


----------



## Memos (Feb 1, 2012)

Kord Industries


----------



## Cromer (Feb 1, 2012)

Memos said:


> Kord Industries



MY iPAD IS AT THE READY! DC, TAKE MY DOLLARS!


So which book is it?


----------



## Memos (Feb 1, 2012)

Cromer said:


> MY iPAD IS AT THE READY! DC, TAKE MY DOLLARS!
> 
> 
> So which book is it?




*Spoiler*: __ 



End of OMAC. There's a little in-joke as well. Made me laugh pretty hard at first, but then I got sad.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 2, 2012)

Tony Daniel, great writer or


*Spoiler*: _Greatest Writer_ 





<Insert Horatio Caine glasses followed by YEEEEEEEEEEAHH!! here>


----------



## Platinum (Feb 2, 2012)

Red Lanterns was pretty solid. Sort of looking forward to the fight next issue.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Feb 2, 2012)

I thought Red Lanterns were meant to be full of rage if they haven't been thrown into that pond, why was Jack able to think so clearly?


----------



## Platinum (Feb 2, 2012)

I think Atrocitus takes it away himself and the lake restores it. Since Jack hasn't met him yet he can still think rationally?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 2, 2012)

Taleran said:


> Tony Daniel, great writer or
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Greatest Writer_
> ...



Oh my god that's magnificent. Daniels > Snyder.


----------



## Rukia (Feb 2, 2012)

OMAC makes me sad.  I'm hoping for a Checkmate book in the fall.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 2, 2012)

Rukia said:


> OMAC makes me sad.  I'm hoping for a Checkmate book in the fall.



At least he's going over to Frankenstein. And yeah a Checkmate book could be cool.


----------



## Rukia (Feb 8, 2012)

Huntress is about to completely shutdown the Italian sex trafficking operation.  Pretty entertaining issue.  Really good art.

I also enjoyed Suicide Squad this week.  Flashback scenes between Harley and the Joker.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 8, 2012)

This cover is terrible so so so terrible, discuss.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Feb 8, 2012)

There's no porn like Marcus To hair porn

Also Batgirl has reached an absolute nadir of awful which is having the same effect on the Tumblr fandom as a swarm of angry bees with Dan DiDio's face.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Feb 8, 2012)

Taleran said:


> This cover is terrible so so so terrible, discuss.



haha It looks like the cover to an Asylum film

Soldiers vs. Dinosaurs! coming soon to your local Sc-Fy network


----------



## Platinum (Feb 8, 2012)

That does look like a syfy network movie poster .


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 9, 2012)

i'll bet it'd make more money as a syfy movie


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 9, 2012)

the steph brown batgirl team (miller and that other perez) are reuniting for DUNDUNDUN... a smallville comic.


----------



## tari101190 (Feb 9, 2012)

A smallville comic would have been cool...but it won't be smallville anymore. He is Superman now. It will just basically be Superman Earth One again.

Oh I just saw the cover to the Season 11 comic. It was pretty good. As long as the art is that good within consistently, then I will check it out.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 9, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> the steph brown batgirl team (miller and that other perez) are reuniting for DUNDUNDUN... a smallville comic.



Wow...just, wow.

So anybody read B & R # 6? 

" -tt- , he's my father you idiot "


----------



## Taleran (Feb 9, 2012)

Time for DC to start fixing things that aren't broken



Collapse, free reign artistic swapping EVERYWHERE


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Feb 9, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Wow...just, wow.
> 
> So anybody read B & R # 6?
> 
> " -tt- , he's my father you idiot "



I liked the bit where he explained that the gun's weight was of because nobody realized that right at the start of the issue.

But seriously that was a great issue.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 9, 2012)

Taleran said:


> Time for DC to start fixing things that aren't broken
> 
> 
> 
> Collapse, free reign artistic swapping EVERYWHERE



Seriously what is wrong with DC's editors?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Feb 9, 2012)

Because artists and writers didn't change all the time before the reboot? 

Creative staff inconsistency has been a problem for while.

And speaking as someone who has really enjoyed BoP and the art this doesn't bug me because the replacement artist is also good D:


----------



## Blinky (Feb 9, 2012)

Travel Foreman said:
			
		

> I just want to chime in briefly, because everyone here has been so supportive of the book and because there’s so much behind the scenes stuff that goes on with these books… I read a lot of comics and I too get confused about whats going on in some books and ultimately feel like we’re getting a raw deal sometimes.
> 
> The change on Animal Man boils down to the reason I was on the book to begin with, which was that I needed to take on a job after my mother died (to deal with the financial end of someone being sick for a while and then passing) and Animal Man was the only thing DC was going to let me do. Which in any other time frame would have been perfect. But really the context of me dealing with the death of my mom and drawing the kind of content in Animal Man just burned me out sooner than I thought.
> 
> ...



I have no problem with him leaving now.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Feb 9, 2012)

so anyone else following resurrection man


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 9, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Because artists and writers didn't change all the time before the reboot?


it was almost always bad then too. but now they're doing it with little books that really could use an established creative team to build a following with.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Feb 9, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Wow...just, wow.
> 
> So anybody read B & R # 6?
> 
> " -tt- , he's my father you idiot "



I'm really digging this bond bats is sharing with Damian, because it isn't something he can just brush off whenever he feel like it. He don't usually  show his feelings but now that he has a son it isn't something he can neglect.

honestly, they should've gave him a son sooner (or made it canon sooner lol)


----------



## mali (Feb 10, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> so anyone else following resurrection man



I stopped at issue 2.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 10, 2012)

> Parallel worlds come to the forefront of DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 “Second Wave,” with titles such as EARTH 2 and WORLDS’ FINEST exploring the adventures of heroes on alternate Earths. ACTION COMICS #9 sets up the multiverse with a standalone story of a Superman from another Earth, who must fight a monster from yet another parallel world. But this isn’t just any monster; it’s a Superman surrogate known as Superdoom, twisted into an unstoppable agent of evil.


----------



## Whimsy (Feb 10, 2012)

Blinky said:


> I have no problem with him leaving now.



               .


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 10, 2012)




----------



## Rukia (Feb 10, 2012)

Mali said:


> I stopped at issue 2.


I stopped after two pages.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Feb 10, 2012)

Mali said:


> I stopped at issue 2.





Rukia said:


> I stopped after two pages.



so I take it as I'm the only here , anyways I could know, why?


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 10, 2012)

tbh I stopped pretty fast too. I like the idea but the evil angel of death thing kinda turned me off to the series.


----------



## Penance (Feb 10, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> so I take it as I'm the only here , anyways I could know, why?



I've kept up with the Rez...


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Feb 10, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> tbh I stopped pretty fast too. I like the idea but the evil angel of death thing kinda turned me off to the series.



I like the idea too, also what do you mean as in the whole evil angel of dead, I read the series and no one has come across as evil yet, just working for their own benefit 



Penance said:


> I've kept up with the Rez...


we are 2 then


----------



## Taleran (Feb 10, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Seriously what is wrong with DC's editors?



I honestly thing they have finally learned the small power of the daily news cycle so they have fallen into the trap of wanting to create something anything nearly every day for people to be able to talk about regardless of new books coming out. The easiest way to do that is to movie creators around.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 10, 2012)

Well, Travel's move off Animal Man obviously has valid reasons behind it. But in general they seem totally inept. The guys who initially assigned teams to the new 52 books did a good job, which seemed to be mostly the head editors. Lot of good creative team decisions then, lots of writers and artists paired with books that really fit them well.

But beyond that they've totally failed at their job. I mean, you'd think the Batman office more than any other would have their shit together, but managed to make the timeline totally impossible within the first 3 months. 

I mean, Jason Todd was robin for 2+ years over in outlaws but Dick Grayson became robin 5 years ago and Damian's been Robin for a year? The only way that works is if everyone was Robin for 1 year or less except Jason. 

ps: they should've retconned his resurrection out. 

I think if I did Rod's editor thing mine would be how to relaunch DC properly.


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 10, 2012)




----------



## tari101190 (Feb 10, 2012)

I'm really happy with Earth-2.

I'm liking the costumes. They are more traditional rather than the armour everyone else seems to be wearing.

It seems Powergirl and Huntress used to be Supergirl and Robin too.

New Black Superman sounds interesting too.


----------



## Nightblade (Feb 10, 2012)

hooboy. they removed the boob window. the backlash will probably be as bad as Wonder Woman and her pants.


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 10, 2012)

No one cares about Power Girl, though.


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Feb 10, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> I'm really happy with Earth-2.
> 
> I'm liking the costumes. They are more traditional rather than the armour everyone else seems to be wearing.
> 
> ...



WW looks awesome.


----------



## Bender (Feb 10, 2012)

@ghstwrld

I did before she was written by Winnick 



Nightblade said:


> hooboy. they removed the boob window. the backlash will probably be as bad as Wonder Woman and her pants.






Those bastards


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 10, 2012)

ahahaha EARTH 2 something different for the fans who dont like the new 52? NOPE ITS MORE OF THE SAME!


----------



## Blinky (Feb 11, 2012)

Why isn't it just the JSA....


----------



## Nightblade (Feb 11, 2012)

ghstwrld said:


> No one cares about Power Girl, though.


sure. 



Bender said:


> @ghstwrld
> 
> I did before she was written by Winnick
> 
> ...


Winnick's run was okay. more serious than the previous team's to be sure.

I'd be okay without the boob window if the costume were any good. but it's not lol.


----------



## mali (Feb 12, 2012)

Im starting to interested into the "rot". Fucking with both the green and the red has to take some power and intelligence.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Feb 13, 2012)

> • SUPERMAN faces new supervillainess MASOCHIST!





That said, the Tumblr fandom is dumber, turning it into an abuse thing.

Guys, it's not an abuse thing, it's a stupidty and unoriginality thing.

This week's rundown:

*Batman and Robin:* After a shakey start this has moved into a top tier book for me. At first I felt kind of like they reset Damian's charcater and his relationship with his dad and crime fighting for no reason, but it was probaby for the best. This clean start helps them properly develope a relationship.

*Batwoman:* GAH! YEAH GUYS, THE DR MANHATTEN NON-LINEAR TIME THING IS WATCHMEN IS GREAT, IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU ALL HAVE TO DO IT. Like Chase seems to be more like her old Manhunter self though. Hope Bette gets out of her coma soon. Also I bet the Bats would love a Batsuit like that...

*Huntress:* I love you Marcus To


----------



## Rukia (Feb 14, 2012)

I got an issue of Justice League Dark in the mail yesterday.  So I am looking forward to reading that.  

I also just explored the DC site and noticed that Birds of Prey, Batwing, Batman and Robin, Nightwing, Catwoman, Batgirl, Batman: The Dark Knight, and Batman are all going to focus on the Court of Owls in May.  Should be epic.


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Feb 16, 2012)

RHaO #6: Kori has Dick old suits,didn't expecting it.

She actually has memories of him(albeit vague).


----------



## Rukia (Feb 17, 2012)

Oh yeah.  Superman vs the masochist.  I saw that.  

I like watching Superman get his ass kicked by women.  I guess this is a sign we are getting closer.  The sadist will make her debut soon.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 22, 2012)

Stuff like this makes me sad I do not care more about the plot, characters or words on tge page.


----------



## Rukia (Feb 22, 2012)

I read Batman: The Dark Knight.  I seriously am not impressed with what I am reading.  I admit that the cover for Issue 3 is pretty much why I started checking it out.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 22, 2012)

I must admit, teen titans was actually good this week.

Well, more like decent, but XS bumped it up to good.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Feb 22, 2012)

ok so there seems to be a crossover between the dark titles, I mean batman and the guy from I vampire (Bennett I think) are working to stop a vampire uprising (or something like that I'm not exactly up to date) and from what I read it seems that the next pit stop for JLD is gotham, for vampire extermination purposes and it just so conveniently happens that the resurrection man is in gotham too, so what cha guys think?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 24, 2012)

Finally got around to reading I Vampire, after being initially turned off by the cover of #1, but yeah it's a great book. And yeah JLD and I Vampire definitely seem to be crossing over, although Andrew and Constantine have already met (which was hilarious, btw), but I'm looking forward to it.

Although I Vampire #6 was kind of unexpected.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Feb 24, 2012)

well I just want to see the Dark side of DC kicking ass


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 24, 2012)

I'm sure they will. Constantine in particular can't not be awesome. Loved the scene in I Vampire where he casually created a miniature sun to subdue that vampire and was like "Now since this is America, I'm sure there's a...ahh here we are *find and picks up shotgun*"

But I loved in I Vampire 5 how when batman was confronted with the whole no killling rule vs. vampire thing he was just like "screw it, ima just electrocute these guys and let zatanna sort this out." even if it didn't work.


----------



## Rukia (Feb 25, 2012)

So I finally received issue 6 of Batman in the mail.  I have to say that was excellent.  Very nice little showdown between Batman and Talon.  Snyder is knocking it out of the park with this arc.

The discovery at the end of the issue basically explains why the Owls will be able to crossover into so many books in a couple of months.  I'm looking forward to it now.


----------



## tari101190 (Feb 27, 2012)

> “Who will Batman kill to save his own daughter?” asks EARTH 2 editor Pat McCallum. “Right out of the gate that should tell you we’re dealing with a different kind of Dark Knight here. More ruthless, dangerous…the costume is familiar and yeah, there is a Wayne under the mask, but we’re looking at a man desperate to save the only family he has left. EARTH 2 is about to become a very bad place to be a bad guy.”



Unfortunately Batman of Earth 2 is implied to be Bruce Wayne, as the story revolves about him saving his daughter. And we already know that Huntress is Bruce's daughter. They are also reffered to as the ageing trinity.

I was hoping the trinity of Earth 2 were the original side kicks grown up.


----------



## Penance (Feb 27, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> well I just want to see the Dark side of DC kicking ass



Same here...


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Feb 27, 2012)

Penance said:


> Same here...



the dark side is strong on this one


----------



## Guy Gardner (Feb 29, 2012)

Well, thank God that JLA storyline is over. I fully expect the current-day stuff to be much more compelling than what we just got.

Also, Barry Allen is _such_ a dork.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 1, 2012)

This page actually made me laugh


----------



## Bender (Mar 1, 2012)

Btw Batman reboot readers am i the only one surprised by how Alfred tried to drug Bruce to make him go to sleep? I'm enjoying Batman's fiight against the "Owl organization" and what not but that just seems so fucking out of character for Alfred.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Mar 1, 2012)

Bender said:


> Btw Batman reboot readers am i the only one surprised by how Alfred tried to drug Bruce to make him go to sleep? I'm enjoying Batman's fiight against the "Owl organization" and what not but that just seems so fucking out of character for Alfred.



well albert does seem to want the best for bruce


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 1, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Well, thank God that JLA storyline is over. I fully expect the current-day stuff to be much more compelling than what we just got.
> 
> Also, Barry Allen is _such_ a dork.



6 was better than the few that came before it


----------



## Bender (Mar 1, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> well albert does seem to want the best for bruce



Eh, then he can keep on pestering him and not drug the friend.  In this Batman annual I have he reseted his alarm clock to another time (from 8 to 10 IIRC). Drugging seems a bit too far.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Mar 1, 2012)

Bender said:


> Eh, then he can keep on pestering him and not drug the friend.  In this Batman annual I have he reseted his alarm clock to another time (from 8 to 10 IIRC). Drugging seems a bit too far.



well I guess they finally made albert the crazy mofo I knew he was


----------



## Blinky (Mar 1, 2012)

Everyone should be crazy.


----------



## mali (Mar 3, 2012)

Red Lanterns #6- OVERTHROW THE PUTRID MONARCH ATROCITUS 








I kid. I kid. Theres no way Atrocitus is getting asurped >_>


----------



## Narutossss (Mar 3, 2012)

so darkseid was looking for his kid on earth?? If so why did he need to cause so much damage and personally go to earth when he could just sneak a secret agent through a boom tube and search for her without drawing attention to his mission. Isn't darkseid suppose to be smarter than this?

And his dialog..."I am darkseid", "I will return" aghh. He reminds me of how broly could only say kakarot!! in his second movie.


----------



## mali (Mar 4, 2012)

So wait, is that reign chick in supergirl meant to be a doomsday replica


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Mar 4, 2012)

Mali said:


> Red Lanterns #6- OVERTHROW THE PUTRID MONARCH ATROCITUS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Team Bleez here 



Mali said:


> So wait, is that reign chick in supergirl meant to be a doomsday replica


wait wait, what do you mean?


----------



## Taleran (Mar 5, 2012)

Shazam


----------



## tari101190 (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm glad he's called Shazam now (again?). And I am just glad he is showing up. I always liked he idea of Shazam since he was magic based. Now I can see wht he is like as apart of the Justice League.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 5, 2012)

He sure is gonna have a hard time introducing himself now.


----------



## tari101190 (Mar 5, 2012)

Perhas it's a transformation he has full control over now, rather than just being bound to any mention of the word. He can still say it to transform, but not unless he wants to I mean.


----------



## KizaruTachio (Mar 5, 2012)

You don't think that might take some of the novelty of SHAZAM! away ?


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 6, 2012)

Or he could just have to say the word, but it only transform him if he intends it to.

I guess it's not a bad look.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 6, 2012)

I'm okay with Shazam, although it kinda sucks because the character seems to be building some stock in Young Justice (as Cap. Marvel), so I'm sure there's some confusion there for some.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 6, 2012)

I think people generally think of his shazam word more than his name when they think of him anyway.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 6, 2012)

That's true. Ha although I'm picturing some OCD brand management exec for WB losing his mind over this.


----------



## Narutossss (Mar 6, 2012)

Fuck this shazam shit.. he's captain marvel. I guess I'll be sticking to dc cartoons where wally west still exists and Cap mavel isn't SHAZAM!1. BTW dropping Justice league, jim lee isn't enough to keep me reading that shit. Guess I'll only be reading batman from dc.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 6, 2012)

Aren't they calling him Shazam due to legal issues? If that's the case I can't really fault DC for the name change.


----------



## Blinky (Mar 6, 2012)

I almost hate to bring this up because the answer will likely just boil down to "different taste" or the like but anyway; why is Jim Lee seen as some mindblowing artist? I mean I can see the appeal if you like that sort of style but I find it odd when people consider him the best out there. 



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Aren't they calling him Shazam due to legal issues? If that's the case I can't really fault DC for the name change.



It's been a whole thing for years. This is DC finally putting an end to it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 7, 2012)

Eh, you're not the only one. I certainly think he's overrated. I mean he's certainly good, but I can think of a handful of DC artist that I prefer.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 7, 2012)

It isn't quite his talent all the time like he drew the single most purchased Superhero comic *EVER*. Also that issue defined the biggest franchise going forward and is the basis for the Animated Series.

So when a LOT of people think X-Men ever that triggers right back to that issue. When you mix that with the fact that a lot of people who talk about comics now got in during the 90s.

It becomes a match made in heaven. Personally Lee is like Alex Ross if Ross decided to get looser, rougher and more dynamic but kept all the Heroic posing and that stuff.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 7, 2012)

Blinky said:


> I almost hate to bring this up because the answer will likely just boil down to "different taste" or the like but anyway; why is Jim Lee seen as some mindblowing artist? I mean I can see the appeal if you like that sort of style but I find it odd when people consider him the best out there.



same reason people think the same thing about perez. they're stuck in the past.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 7, 2012)

Jim Lee isn't boring though. He is much closer to Byrne than Perez.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 7, 2012)

I like lee better but reputation wise he's kind of the perez of the 90s. And I do think they're kinda similar in style in a way I can't quite explain. Maybe it's just the really superhero-y not quite natural poses they both like.

Or it might just be that they both set really boring standards for the looks of comics of their generation. I kinda see Ivan Reis as the modern version.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 7, 2012)

DC redesigned their website and hilariously I think they just totally got rid of their forum. Smart move.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 7, 2012)

That site design is kinda terrible. Also I have found the closer proximity a forum is to being 'about' something the crazier the people on that forum are about that one thing and not everything else.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 7, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I like lee better but reputation wise he's kind of the perez of the 90s. And I do think they're kinda similar in style in a way I can't quite explain. Maybe it's just the really superhero-y not quite natural poses they both like.
> 
> Or it might just be that they both set really boring standards for the looks of comics of their generation. I kinda see Ivan Reis as the modern version.



Yeah, I feel like DC sees Jim Lee as their big time superstar eventish artist, but for this generation I feel like that guy is Reis.



Petes12 said:


> DC redesigned their website and hilariously I think they just totally got rid of their forum. Smart move.



The website's not bad. And yeah, definitely a good idea to get rid of their forum, that place was awful.

And yeah Tal, that's why I much prefer this forum to cbr or dc. Well, that and its just cozier around here and you guys are all pretty cool.

But I must admit, I will miss seeing Petes' posts on the DCforums. You can really tell he doesn't want to post there, but someone will post something so stupid that he feels compelled to.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 7, 2012)

Reis is NO better an artist than Lee is though.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 7, 2012)

To each his own, I certainly prefer Reis, at least for "blockbuster" type comics (JL, events, etc. ).


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 7, 2012)

Yeah he is. He's literally a better version of Lee, cleaner and more detailed and his people just look better. But he's got all the same problems Lee has too.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 7, 2012)

I like the rougher side then, Reis comes to close to exactly the kind of art I absolutely hate in Superhero comics.

It's posing and nothing else.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 7, 2012)

That's a bit of an exaggeration neither of them are as unnatural as deadato. But that's sort of my general problem with both, I think they do some awkward posing sometimes, especially in any sort of 'fight scene'.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 7, 2012)

Taleran said:


> That site design is kinda terrible. Also I have found the closer proximity a forum is to being 'about' something the crazier the people on that forum are about that one thing and not everything else.



Yeah this is exactly what I've found haha. I haven't been to the actual naruto parts of this forum in like... a year or more. But you had to steer clear of there too. Or risk running into an argument between pairing fans or that one girl who's literally in love with deidara (because terrorist traps are hawt I guess).


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 7, 2012)

Yeah I haven't been to the naruto part in at least a year. Although I do remember that chick ha.

But really, what I like about this forum is that there isn't anybody where I disagree with them on the grounds of them being an idiot.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 7, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Yeah this is exactly what I've found haha. I haven't been to the actual naruto parts of this forum in like... a year or more. But you had to steer clear of there too. Or risk running into an argument between pairing fans or that one girl who's literally in love with deidara (because terrorist traps are hawt I guess).



KY/Vanity's been banned for a while now actually if that's who you're thinking of


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 7, 2012)

Yeah it was KY I think haha. It's saying something that I've seen way creepier people on the cbr/dc forums. Get rid of supergirl's shorts threads anyone? 

There was one guy obsessed with the idea of wanting supergirl to 'come from a culture where everyone's way less modest and our inhibitions seem so alien!' 

Yeah ok go wank off to starfire and please feel free to keep it to yourself


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 7, 2012)

Yeah, I think there are times when you really need to just cut through all the "but the story! but the character!" outrage and point out that it's all just justification to turn female characters into pervy adolescent fantasies.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 7, 2012)

swamp thing


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 7, 2012)

i cant be the only one who loved the hell out of swamp thing this week


----------



## Blinky (Mar 7, 2012)

I'm actually glad now that it took so long for him to become Swamp Thing. It made his transformation seem like the most epic thing ever.


----------



## mali (Mar 8, 2012)

Now its the rots turn to get pwned


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 8, 2012)

Havent read swamp thing (or any of this week's releases) yet


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 8, 2012)

it was also maybe the best issue of action comics so far


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 8, 2012)

Good to hear, Action has kind of been losing me a bit.


----------



## The World (Mar 8, 2012)

Dat dat Swamp thing.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 8, 2012)

Now that I've read the issue...

*FUCK YEAH SWAMP THING!*


----------



## Parallax (Mar 8, 2012)

took long enough


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 9, 2012)

Ha yes, one day after it released, SO long.


----------



## Parallax (Mar 9, 2012)

I actually meant for Alec's transformation.  7 issues is a long time


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Mar 9, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> swamp thing



I finally started reading swamp thing, it was


----------



## gabzilla (Mar 9, 2012)

The DC forums were a mess. Some of the comments in the Batgirl section were ridiculous.

Really entertaining, though.

That said, does anybody know when Batman Inc is coming back?



Blinky said:


> I almost hate to bring this up because the answer will likely just boil down to "different taste" or the like but anyway; why is Jim Lee seen as some mindblowing artist? I mean I can see the appeal if you like that sort of style but I find it odd when people consider him the best out there.



Because 90s

And $$$


----------



## Taleran (Mar 9, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I actually meant for Alec's transformation.  7 issues is a long time



It feels kinda like other publishes have moved past decompression to a large degree where as DC has just fully dove into it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 9, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I actually meant for Alec's transformation.  7 issues is a long time



 Yeah that makes more sense.

But I was okay with it. This is my first experience with swamp thing, and getting to know Alec, and seeing a bond form between him and Abigail made it a lot better when he turned into swamp thing, knowing the consequences of doing so.



gabzilla said:


> The DC forums were a mess. Some of the comments in the Batgirl section were ridiculous.
> 
> Really entertaining, though.



Oh my god yes, terrible place. Try to tell a barbara gordon fan that you liked Oracle more than NuBatgirl and the result is explosive and hilarious.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 9, 2012)

Taleran said:


> It feels kinda like other publishes have moved past decompression to a large degree where as DC has just fully dove into it.



What other publishers? I'm trying to think of an image book that isn't decompressed. And plenty of marvel titles are too.

And I find it annoying that people still act like that's a bad thing. The first 6 issues of swamp thing weren't exactly a waste of time, it's easily one of DC's best books.


----------



## Parallax (Mar 9, 2012)

I'm not saying the series was bad, I really enjoy it.  I was just commenting on how I feel that 7 issues to transform into the title character in a series is a pretty long time.


----------



## gabzilla (Mar 9, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Oh my god yes, terrible place. Try to tell a barbara gordon fan that you liked Oracle more than NuBatgirl and the result is explosive and hilarious.



How can you be a fan of that cripple and those fake Batgirls? 

I just got Batman Inc with Steph's last mission and the third volume of her series so I'm happy.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 9, 2012)

Haha those people were the absolute worst


----------



## Blinky (Mar 9, 2012)

I liked the idea of the whole legacy thing. it's pretty much dead now though.


----------



## gabzilla (Mar 9, 2012)

The legacy thing is what got me back into comics.

I went from buying a lot of Batman and related titles to just Batwoman. :/


----------



## Blinky (Mar 9, 2012)

Actually what was the big motivation behind bringing back Hal and Barry? is it just because Johns wanted it? I can't imagine there being any demand.


----------



## gabzilla (Mar 9, 2012)

They are Didio's and co. faves iconic and DC wants new readers.

Let's ignore the part where neither Hal nor Barry are the most iconic GL/Flash for non readers.


----------



## Blinky (Mar 9, 2012)

I suppose they think they're simplifying it  with having the original dudes take the spotlight but that's bollocks.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 9, 2012)

Blinky said:


> I liked the idea of the whole legacy thing. it's pretty much dead now though.



Yeah....

I mean DC has plenty of great books right now, but one of the things I most loved was the legacies and richness of the universe, and now that's all gone.

I mean I like Barry, and I like Hal, and I understand that a bunch of old guys living in their parents' basement really wanted those characters back, I just wish it wasn't at the expense of other characters I liked.

The worst part is that the books that ARE good wouldn't even require a reboot. Or the amount of work to make them not need the reboot is incredibly small.

Action Comics and Batgirl (because the character is totally different without her time as oracle) are the only ones I can think of that would NEED a reboot.

And I agree that the whole "iconic" thing is crap. The Flash and Green Lantern are iconic, Barry and Hal aren't. At least when it comes to non readers.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 9, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Actually what was the big motivation behind bringing back Hal and Barry? is it just because Johns wanted it? I can't imagine there being any demand.



A lot of people wanted hal.

TBH I think legacy characters are dumb as hell. I just happen to like all the batman ones, except jason.


----------



## Blinky (Mar 9, 2012)

> And I agree that the whole "iconic" thing is crap. The Flash and Green Lantern are iconic, Barry and Hal aren't. At least when it comes to non readers.



I fucking HATE the whole iconic thing. It's the go to excuse for complaints when people don't like something purely because it has changed. NO YOU CAN'T CHANGE JAY GARRICK'S COSTUME IT'S ICONIC! The guy had pantaloons and a tin helmet with wings. 

Although his new costume is pretty poor.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 9, 2012)

best jay garrick is dead jay garrick


----------



## Blinky (Mar 9, 2012)

He's alive and well 



If you can consider ratbait well.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 9, 2012)

I know. Everything involving earth 2 is looking terrible and pointless. I'd say "at least its over there on that other earth where I can pretend it doesn't exist" but it snatched powergirl and huntress away from us.

I wonder how long it will take DC to realize that EVERYTHING, even the color schemes, of golden age flash and gl were bad.


----------



## gabzilla (Mar 9, 2012)

Blinky said:


> He's alive and well
> 
> 
> 
> If you can consider ratbait well.



Looks like the love child of Gatchaman and Kamen Rider.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 9, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Looks like the love child of Gatchaman and Kamen Rider.



Funny I was just thinking of Riderman...

I can understand the need to update the JSA costumes, but that just looks bad.

Hopefully they don't keep Alan Scott's "Look at me I look like a Mega-Man villain" costume from before the relaunch


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Mar 9, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Actually what was the big motivation behind bringing back Hal and Barry? is it just because Johns wanted it? I can't imagine there being any demand.



Johns is a nostalgic tripper at the wheel, and in the case of Hal there was even a fan community devoted to informing anyone that'd listen about how he should come back/be redeemed. I just forget how they were named. Don't underestimate the zeal of dinosaurs. Don't know if they mattered at a sales level though.



gabzilla said:


> Because 90s
> 
> And $$$



If you were a teenager when Lee was rising in popularity, those female legs seemed to go on forever. 



Petes12 said:


> Yeah it was KY I think haha. It's saying something that I've seen way creepier people on the cbr/dc forums. Get rid of supergirl's shorts threads anyone?
> 
> There was one guy obsessed with the idea of wanting supergirl to 'come from a culture where everyone's way less modest and our inhibitions seem so alien!'
> 
> Yeah ok go wank off to starfire and please feel free to keep it to yourself



The CBR forums can be meh to awful, and now they look ugly as well with their new colors.

I don't even go to CBR proper for news anymore, I get those elsewhere. I mostly go for the blogs.



gabzilla said:


> They are Didio's and co. faves iconic and DC wants new readers.
> 
> Let's ignore the part where neither Hal nor Barry are the most iconic GL/Flash for non readers.



_Why did they make Green Lantern white?_ 



Petes12 said:


> I know. Everything involving earth 2 is looking terrible and pointless. I'd say "at least its over there on that other earth where I can pretend it doesn't exist" but it snatched powergirl and huntress away from us.
> 
> I wonder how long it will take DC to realize that EVERYTHING, even the color schemes, of golden age flash and gl were bad.



The Golden Age heroes I find more interesting are Dr. Fate and the Spectre. Speaking of, has the Spectre appeared after the relaunch?


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 9, 2012)

ugggh specter uggghhhhh

but dr fate is cool


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Mar 9, 2012)

What, don't you like all-powerful dead cops in man panties?

He's got some moves.


----------



## gabzilla (Mar 10, 2012)

Charcan said:


> If you were a teenager when Lee was rising in popularity, those female legs seemed to go on forever.



I was 

I'd take Bruce Timm or Steve Rudd over him any day 

Or Josh Middleton pek



Charcan said:


> _Why did they make Green Lantern white?_



Because nostalgia.



Charcan said:


> What, don't you like all-powerful dead cops in man panties?
> 
> He's got some moves.



Swag


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 10, 2012)

Oh wow jay garrick's costume is terrible. But I don't think his costume is iconic, but it should look like something a dude from the 40's would where, and the metal hat is just awesome.


----------



## Blinky (Mar 10, 2012)

tbh I liked it in the way I like a fair amount of the goofy silver/golden age costumes but anyone who expected him to still look like that in Earth 2 was deluding themselves.


----------



## tari101190 (Mar 10, 2012)

I love Jay Garrick's costume. I don't see what is wrong with it. It is better than Barry Allens costume and looks like a real suit. 

All Earth 2 costumes look good so far and seem like good modernized outfits. It is the mainstream DC costumes that I hate, which are all designed to look like armour for some reason.

The hat is a homage to his oriiginal costume, so I don't see the point commenting on that aspect though.

People are never happy anytime anything changes.


----------



## Blinky (Mar 10, 2012)

Actually minus the helmet doesn't it look a little bit like ultimate Quicksilver's costume?


----------



## tari101190 (Mar 10, 2012)

I would say it looks more like traditional Quicksilvers outfit. Or a cross beween both the mainstream and ultimate.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> I love Jay Garrick's costume. I don't see what is wrong with it. It is better than Barry Allens costume and looks like a real suit.



massive fail


----------



## Blinky (Mar 10, 2012)

I thought you hated the regular Flash costume Petes.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2012)

Not the current one. I thought barry's classic pre52 belt was pretty shitty maybe that's what you're thinking of? 

I think all the JL costumes look a lot better than the earth 2 ones.


----------



## Blinky (Mar 10, 2012)

I remember someone here saying before that The Flash's costume is stupid since it makes him look like a wrestler. 

And you're the most prone to hate so you can see how I came to that conclusion


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2012)

No his costume's awesome, esp by manapul.


----------



## tari101190 (Mar 10, 2012)

I prefer more realistic looking superhero costumes. I don't really like stylized, traditional suits.

I feel like the costumes need to look more like uniforms. Showing the seams and flexi bits is cool too. I hate skin tight, panties, capes (unless they can fly) and anything that seems unnecassaary on a suit. It needs t look like something it would make sense wearing.

Which is why I don't like Jim Lee too much. He draws them too traditional and skin tight. And the pointless armour lines that don't make sense really annoy me too.

I'm not talking about the colour scheme's though. They can use whatever colours they feel represent the characters.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2012)

Jay's costume is skin tight too. And it looks like an abomination.


----------



## Blinky (Mar 10, 2012)

I think we can all agree that Psycho Pirate had the greatest costume since the invention of clothing


----------



## tari101190 (Mar 10, 2012)

skin tight and looking like skin are different.

Skin tight and still looking like a suit is fine.

Skin tight and looking like a layer of skin is not good.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2012)

Ok. And I see how thats a problem with a lot of old jim lee art. Not seeing it so much with the current costumes. Especially when drawn by the artists of their respective books. 

Just, that lightning bolt is so stupid, and the colors look terrible, and that helmet is some kind of ant man wannabe thing which is not a good thing either.

I can't believe you like that better than Barry's costume, which looks nice and slick yet has seams too. Lightning seams!


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Mar 10, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> I was
> 
> I'd take Bruce Timm or Steve Rudd over him any day
> 
> Or Josh Middleton pek



Not familiar with Middleton, but Bruce Timm and Steve Rude are good. Like the latter drawing Mary Jane and Gwen Stacy.


----------



## tari101190 (Mar 11, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Ok. And I see how thats a problem with a lot of old jim lee art. Not seeing it so much with the current costumes. Especially when drawn by the artists of their respective books.


 Other artists do draw the suits better yes, so we can see creases etc. Jim Lee has started to do that too a little, but he has not mastered that yet it seems.



> Just, that lightning bolt is so stupid, and the colors look terrible, and that helmet is some kind of ant man wannabe thing which is not a good thing either.


The Lightning bolt and helmet and homage to his original costume. They cannot get rid of them otherwise he won't be recognizable. I don't really have an opinion on them as they are basically the same as the old costume. What is the point complaining about them now?



> I can't believe you like that better than Barry's costume, which looks nice and slick yet has seams too. Lightning seams!


Barrry doesn't have seams, he has arbitrary lines all over his costume just like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, so that the suit looks like armour. Which is stupid since it is not armour, it is a skin tight suit. And drawimg 'armour plating' lines on a skin tight suit with creases makes no sense.

Comics are visual so I feel strongly about the art in the things I read. It is the main thing to draw me in.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 11, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> The Lightning bolt and helmet and homage to his original costume. They cannot get rid of them otherwise he won't be recognizable. I don't really have an opinion on them as they are basically the same as the old costume. What is the point complaining about them now?



They actually look more terrible than the original versions, somehow.

And while they're a little silly, I like the explanation manapul came up for the way flash's costume works.


----------



## Blinky (Mar 11, 2012)

Yeah Manapul actually put thought into why his costume looks like that and it makes sense really so I'm not seeing the problem.


----------



## tari101190 (Mar 11, 2012)

Look.

All of the costumes were designed before Manapul would have designed any story. The costume is the same as Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman's. All of them share those same random lines. They all share the same look, so any explanation Flash may have been given, cannot be applied to the others because it was not an initial reason for the costume design. They all got their suits from different places, and yet they all share those armoured random lines on a skin tight suit.

Meaning the costumes make no sense and my point still stands.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 11, 2012)

I sorta know what you mean, but the only one that actually looks bad to me is Batman's. Flashes at least continue to reinforce a lightning motif, and Superman's kinda makes sense as alien clothing. 

I dunno why you even include wonder woman she has no 'random lines'


----------



## Bender (Mar 11, 2012)

The conclusion to Justice League #6 sucked butt. Barry Allen's whole suggestion of a team name rang like some shit that was a knock-off of Wally West's mannerisms from the Justice League cartoon.


----------



## Penance (Mar 11, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I sorta know what you mean, but the only one that actually looks bad to me is Batman's. Flashes at least continue to reinforce a lightning motif, and Superman's kinda makes sense as alien clothing.
> 
> I dunno why you even include wonder woman she has no 'random lines'



Yeah, she does...


----------



## gabzilla (Mar 12, 2012)

Charcan said:


> Not familiar with Middleton, but Bruce Timm and Steve Rude are good. Like the latter drawing Mary Jane and Gwen Stacy.





. He draws Kara like a teenager, so bonus points for that.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 12, 2012)

Wow. I remember loving his Supergirl cover (the one with her outside the ER), but I never really knew who this guy was. Nice stuff. Love his Wondy.


----------



## gabzilla (Mar 12, 2012)

Can't believe DC is not using him.


----------



## tari101190 (Mar 12, 2012)

Bender said:


> The conclusion to Justice League #6 sucked butt...


Yeah I didn't like it.

From what I feel I understand about Darkseid, I don't understand how any members of the Justice League can stand up to him. And so I feel that whenever he shows up the manner in which he is defeated always seems far too anticlimactic.

I'm sure it would have been better if another villain was used instead. Or it would have been fine if Darkseid himself didn't show up, just a minion would have been fine maybe. I dunno. Maybe a rebooted version of Starro would have been fine I think. 

And I miss the Martian Manhunter as apart of the Justice League I think. I would also have preffered if Cyborg, Raven, Beast Boy and Starfire were apart of the Outsiders together, maybe with Nightwing.

The original Teen Titans origins should have been kept intact. The new generation of Tim and Conner etc should have formed Young Justice instead.


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## Comic Book Guy (Mar 12, 2012)

*INVISIBLES OMNIBUS*


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## Blinky (Mar 12, 2012)

That's going to be a big omnibus.


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## Petes12 (Mar 12, 2012)

man that upcoming ravagers book looks really terrible


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## Blinky (Mar 12, 2012)

Can't say I expect much from something spinning out of Teen Titans. Does TT really just exist because two guys had a succesful run that one time?


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## gabzilla (Mar 12, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> man that upcoming ravagers book looks really terrible





Yikes

They have two popular characters that really need their own book and what do they do? A book with a bunch of nobodies that will probably get cancelled in less than 10 issues.


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## Comic Book Guy (Mar 12, 2012)

Though, some weak link with the Gen13 group due to Fairchild. I'm curious to see how the Gen13 gang are doing in the DCnU.



Blinky said:


> That's going to be a big omnibus.



All 1,500+ pages of it.

Going to be heck on the spine to open. And in general, Marvel omnibuses > DC's.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjrMqu4s2Fg[/YOUTUBE]


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## Petes12 (Mar 12, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Yikes
> 
> They have two popular characters that really need their own book and what do they do? A book with a bunch of nobodies that will probably get cancelled in less than 10 issues.



your link didnt work but im guessing its one of the hilarious covers for this teen team book in which no one looks under the age of 24?


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## gabzilla (Mar 12, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> your link didnt work but im guessing its one of the hilarious covers for this teen team book in which no one looks under the age of 24?



Stupid link

Here:



And you'd be right 

Though that's nothing compared to the TT cover:


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## Taleran (Mar 12, 2012)

Comic Book Guy said:


> *INVISIBLES OMNIBUS*



Stupid idea, that page count is going to make the thing nearly unreadable and if DC keeps gluing their omnibuses instead of stitching them it will fall apart.

Give me trades any day of the week.


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## Blinky (Mar 12, 2012)

They should just do that thing where they have two big-ish hardcovers in one slipcase. 

Seriously this Thor omnibus I have is fucking unweildly.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 13, 2012)

I gotta say, I like that TT cover. If only because the general message of it seems to be "Dinosaurs, awesome!"

And yeah, the only way an invisibles omni would work is if they let marvel do it so it doesn't explode when you open it.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Mar 13, 2012)

Taleran said:


> Stupid idea, that page count is going to make the thing nearly unreadable and if DC keeps gluing their omnibuses instead of stitching them it will fall apart.
> 
> Give me trades any day of the week.



Didio said they were going to try to fix that starting with the second New Teen Titans Omnibus, let's see if they don't screw that up too.



Blinky said:


> They should just do that thing where they have two big-ish hardcovers in one slipcase.
> 
> Seriously this Thor omnibus I have is fucking unweildly.



Speaking of Marvel's big books, now Amazon's showing a 1200+ pages Bendis New Avengers Omnibus. All of my get. Suck it haters.

Anyway, multi-volume single Absolute Editions you mean? I don't think I've seen DC do that, other than having thinner companion volumes with scripts and stuff.

A European publisher released the entire Ex Machina run like that, though.


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## Petes12 (Mar 13, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I gotta say, I like that TT cover. If only because the general message of it seems to be "Dinosaurs, awesome!"
> 
> And yeah, the only way an invisibles omni would work is if they let marvel do it so it doesn't explode when you open it.



I like bart's rarely seen male brokeback pose


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## Blinky (Mar 13, 2012)

> Anyway, multi-volume single Absolute Editions you mean? I don't think I've seen DC do that, other than having thinner companion volumes with scripts and stuff.



As in two hardcovers released in the one slipcase so it isn't a pain to read. I think all the ridiculously big omnibus/absolute editions should be done like that.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Mar 13, 2012)

Blinky said:


> As in two hardcovers released in the one slipcase so it isn't a pain to read. I think all the ridiculously big omnibus/absolute editions should be done like that.



Marvel did that with the Dark Tower Omnibus. Which is gorgeous.

But it was a one time thing.


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## Blinky (Mar 13, 2012)

But there's no reason why it HAS to be a one time thing though. I'd just much prefer that is all I'm saying.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Mar 13, 2012)

Blinky said:


> But there's no reason why it HAS to be a one time thing though. I'd just much prefer that is all I'm saying.



I get that, but that gigantic Simonson Thor Omnibus went to three or four printings before it actually came out, so I doubt they'll stop cramming as much as they can into that format's volumes for a while.

And now DC is catching up with a vengeance. I don't think I can remember a comics collection with a bigger page count than that Invisibles.

I'm surprised they didn't just reprint the stuff as a bunch of Deluxe Editions, like with Morrison's JLA.


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## Comic Book Guy (Mar 14, 2012)

Whichever ones has the most extras are what I buy.

Have to, since my academic field is going to be comics, after all.


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## Rukia (Mar 14, 2012)

I finally read Justice League #6.  I like that they aren't really a team at this point.  The end of the Darkseid arc was very unsatisfying.

The best part of the issue was the part with Pandora.  That was fairly interesting.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 15, 2012)

Yeah JL 6 was pretty bad. Even for a young superman, smashing a bunch of dudes with a truck while saying "smile for me." is just terrible.


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## Glued (Mar 16, 2012)

Even though OMAC lost, Superman himself says, "You maybe stronger than me."

Also Kamandi reference in OMAC. Also known as Command D in this book. Talking animal men, more Jack Kirby reference.

So much beautiful Kirbyness.

I love Dan Didio's worship of Jack Kirby.


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## Rukia (Mar 16, 2012)

I spent the day at Wondercon.  I had a conversation with Richard Friend (inker of Batman: The Dark Knight).  Probably the most interesting part of my day.  He discussed the new writer, the night of Owls, and various other projects.  I also scrolled through all of his original art.  I briefly considered dropping $8500 on a Birds of Prey cover.  Decided it was overpriced.  The guy has talent though.  I wonder if the new writer can make this series more appealing?


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## Parallax (Mar 16, 2012)

8500?  That's ridiculous.


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## Petes12 (Mar 16, 2012)

his penguin thing was good. i wish he was partnered with some other artist instead of finch


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## Rukia (Mar 16, 2012)

Parallax said:


> 8500?  That's ridiculous.


Visit David Finch's website.  He hasn't sold a single cover.  Even the cheaper ones are overpriced.


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## Narutossss (Mar 17, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> his penguin thing was good. i wish he was partnered with some other artist instead of finch


this. Friends inks don't mesh too well with finch's pencils, miki or weems are more suited for finch. Friend should be inking guys like travis charest or leinil yu, the issue he inked on yu's silent dragon proved to me his more suited for that kinda stuff. here's a yu piece friend inked for fun.

edit: I also heard bachalo and kelly are working on switching publishers for steampunk, so friend could possibly ink that book again.


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## Petes12 (Mar 17, 2012)

I was actually talking about the writer i dont really know anything bout finch's inker haha


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## Narutossss (Mar 17, 2012)

oh ma bad... but seriously the dark knight needs all the help it can get, Finch cannot write to save his life, he's just terrible. Didn't the 90's teach that popular artist doesn't equal good or even decent writer.


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## tari101190 (Mar 21, 2012)

I guess I liked Justice League #7 overall.

*Good*
 - Government agents fighting alongside JL in the form of A.R.G.U.S (Advanced Research Group Uniting Superhumans). Was a cool new addition to the universe.

- Love that Steve Treveor is the Liason. His character seems to be pretty good overall too. He actually has a personality and personal story going for him.

- Art was really good. Prefer Gene Ha over Jim Lee to be honest. Looks more realstic.

- Cheesy in-universe uber fans of the JL.

*Bad*
- Interactions between the team are not too developed after FIVE YEARS.

- Main JL still only has seven members after FIVE YEARS. 

- Hal Jordan is a douche-bag.

- Cheesy in-universe uber fans of the JL.


New Shazam story was cool too. I like the new take on him and the antagonist seems very interesting.


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2012)

Who the heck is Harper Row?


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## gabzilla (Mar 22, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Who the heck is Harper Row?



New character.

They'll make you love her, then the will fridge her.


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2012)

Better than making me resent her and keeping her about I guess.


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## gabzilla (Mar 22, 2012)

Well, they could also go the Misfit route with her.


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## Taleran (Mar 22, 2012)




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## Comic Book Guy (Mar 22, 2012)

Aw, lil' Bruce.

Your parents are dead?


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## gabzilla (Mar 23, 2012)

That's so cute


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## Taleran (Mar 24, 2012)

This is hilarious and terrible.


*Spoiler*: _The next JL Villain for when Lee comes back_ 









Ha Ha Ha


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## Blinky (Mar 24, 2012)

BEHOLD! *DARK NAMOR*


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## Petes12 (Mar 24, 2012)

why do his arms have faces


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## Petes12 (Mar 24, 2012)

tbh I liked JL 7 though, much more than the other recent issues.

and batman having that metatextual moment "shut down the JLI they're an embarassment", I liked that.


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## Whimsy (Mar 24, 2012)

Taleran said:


> This is hilarious and terrible.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _The next JL Villain for when Lee comes back_
> ...



What the flying fuck is that


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## Blinky (Mar 24, 2012)

It's Jim Lee's re-redesign of Darkseid.


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## Cromer (Mar 24, 2012)

That CAN'T be real...can it?


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## Petes12 (Mar 24, 2012)

some new bad guy blinky... obviously


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## Blinky (Mar 24, 2012)

i r making joke


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## Cromer (Mar 24, 2012)

u r much funny


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## Blinky (Mar 24, 2012)

i kno i kno


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## LIL_M0 (Mar 25, 2012)

I stopped reading DC comics after Flashpoint. How's the GL Sinestro bok been?


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## Platinum (Mar 26, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> tbh I liked JL 7 though, much more than the other recent issues.
> 
> and batman having that metatextual moment "shut down the JLI they're an embarassment", I liked that.



I chuckled at that too.


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## Id (Mar 26, 2012)

LIL_M0 said:


> I stopped reading DC comics after Flashpoint. How's the GL Sinestro bok been?



Sinestro is fucking :ho


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## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 26, 2012)

LIL_M0 said:


> I stopped reading DC comics after Flashpoint. How's the GL Sinestro bok been?



You're missing out on some good stuff then, but yeah Sinestro is awesome as always. Hal's gotten a lot better too. Or at least, I like him a lot more.

I still wish we had gotten more "normal" Hal, as him heroically jumping across the street into a window only to get arrested for busting in on a tv set, or him proposing to Carol "Will...will you co sign for my car?" was amazing.


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## LIL_M0 (Mar 26, 2012)

Oh, yeah. lol That was the first issue, right? It's been so ong til I had forgot that I had read it. I stopped reading altogether when Sinestro knocked on Hal's door and hands him a GL ring. I was like WTH, I though I was done with reading about GL Hal.  

The only reason I'm courious now is because I read somewhee that they were doing an arc on the origins of the Indigo tribe. Has that happend yet? If so, is it awesome?


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## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 26, 2012)

LIL_M0 said:


> Oh, yeah. lol That was the first issue, right? It's been so ong til I had forgot that I had read it. I stopped reading altogether when Sinestro knocked on Hal's door and hands him a GL ring. I was like WTH, I though I was done with reading about GL Hal.



I was okay with that, but I would have liked to see it structured like this:

Sinestro grabs Hal, gives him his Gl Ring / leash, they do some GL stuff for a few issues, Sinestro dips.

1 issue of Hal doing some real life stuff (tragically / comedically ) only for Sinestro to come in at the worst possible time, not caring at all about Hal's life, and drags him into another GL adventure for a few issues.



> The only reason I'm courious now is because I read somewhee that they were doing an arc on the origins of the Indigo tribe. Has that happend yet? If so, is it awesome?



Right now it's mostly just Hal getting to see exactly what they're actually like and being like "Woah these are good guys?"


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Mar 26, 2012)

I like the design kinda like a cross breed between abe sapien + a vampire from underworld


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## Huey Freeman (Mar 26, 2012)

I just started reading and I must say I like the way catwoman and bats are heading 

The Flash I have read tonight aint half bad.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 27, 2012)

What issue are you on? It gets better and better. Manapul is a champ at drawing Flash.


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## Huey Freeman (Mar 27, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> What issue are you on? It gets better and better. Manapul is a champ at drawing Flash.



Starting issue #5 today , going to try get swamp thing and see how much WW changed later today


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## Rukia (Mar 28, 2012)

I don't understand White Rabbit's ability.  She is able to be in two places at once.  Fine.  But how does it work?  An ability?  Is it the result of a magical object?  I have studied that panel and I just can't tell.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 28, 2012)

Rukia said:


> I don't understand White Rabbit's ability.  She is able to be in two places at once.  Fine.  But how does it work?  An ability?  Is it the result of a magical object?  I have studied that panel and I just can't tell.



I have a far more important question for you. Why in the hell are you reading TDK?


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## Powerful Lord (Mar 29, 2012)

TDK isn't very good, but i believe White rebbit's ability is to create clones, as for how she can do that was still not shoun.

Anybody been reading Aquaman?


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## Emperor Joker (Mar 29, 2012)

Powerful Lord said:


> TDK isn't very good, but i believe White rebbit's ability is to create clones, as for how she can do that was still not shoun.
> 
> Anybody been reading Aquaman?



I've been reading it...it's good, but the Aquaman jokes are getting stale now seven issues in. if Johns can move past that then i'll porbably like it more.


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## Huey Freeman (Mar 29, 2012)

Red Hood is not bad, not bad.

Any of the kryptonians worth reading?


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## Emperor Joker (Mar 29, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> Red Hood is not bad, not bad.
> 
> Any of the kryptonians worth reading?



Action Comics is great...Supergirl is fun and action packed...Superboy is decent and Superman is mediocre


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## Huey Freeman (Mar 29, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Action Comics is great...Supergirl is fun and action packed...Superboy is decent and Superman is mediocre



Kk Ill try Action comics and supergirl.

I started to read some WW not sure how I feel about new mythos yet.


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## Powerful Lord (Mar 29, 2012)

I like WW even with all these changes, the Superman books are some of the best for new readers to jump to as they're basically rebooting the whole mythos, Morrison himself said that it's what he's doing with Action Comics.

 Red Hood and the Outlaws had a bad start but it's really interesting now, the characters seem to be more interesting now and i'm begining to like Jason.


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## Rukia (Mar 29, 2012)

I thought Justice League #7 was pretty damn disappointing.  Pandora's presence at the end of 6 got me interested again and they didn't continue that story at all.


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## Emperor Joker (Mar 29, 2012)

Rukia said:


> I thought Justice League #7 was pretty damn disappointing.  Pandora's presence at the end of 6 got me interested again and they didn't continue that story at all.



Yeah i'm really not likin Justice League at the moment...it had a okay start...but damn it's fucking annoying now. 

about the only good thing about #7 was the Shazam backup


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## Platinum (Mar 29, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> I've been reading it...it's good, but the Aquaman jokes are getting stale now seven issues in. if Johns can move past that then i'll porbably like it more.



Yeah I agree, but the jokes nonwithstanding it's been pretty consistently solid.


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## Petes12 (Mar 29, 2012)

I don't recall there being any aquaman jokes in issue 7.


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## Powerful Lord (Mar 29, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Yeah i'm really not likin Justice League at the moment...it had a okay start...but damn it's fucking annoying now.
> 
> *about the only good thing about #7 was the Shazam backup*



I don't like how they made Billy an annoying brat


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## Petes12 (Mar 29, 2012)

won't lie i thought that was funny


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## hehey (Mar 29, 2012)

I could not even finish wonder Woman #7, i pretty much cringed through the entirety of taht "new backstory" and i jsut stopped reading when Wonder woman called those guys amazons... im done with the book.

This just isnt something i can get behind.

Plus all teh male gods except for Zeus and Apollo looked like shit. Hermes is hideous, hades had a dam candle for a head, and Poseidon... i dont know what hes supposed to be, but i dont like it. I didnt like Hepheastus look either.

Apollo looked badass though.


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## Emperor Joker (Mar 29, 2012)

hehey said:


> I could not even finish wonder Woman #7, i pretty much cringed through the entirety of taht "new backstory" and i jsut stopped reading when Wonder woman called those guys amazons... im done with the book.
> 
> This just isnt something i can get behind.
> 
> ...



Poseidon's a lovecraftian sea monster. Azzarello did say he was going for a more horror feel for his run. and the male gods do represent that approach.

I'm not getting your problem with the Manizons


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## Blinky (Mar 29, 2012)

Seems like one of those "It's different so I hate it" deals.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 29, 2012)

I'm not really a fan of the Amazonian backstory, since it kinda makes Wondy look really naive and I liked the amazon's as not total monsters.

But it's definitely got more of a myth vibe to it, which is certainly a plus for me.


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## Taleran (Mar 30, 2012)

The thing about that though is that Diana is younger than the period of time in which they do their hunting.

Man Tucker is so spot on when he nails it.


			
				Flash #7 said:
			
		

> There’s no titty, no racism, and you’ll find a much higher violence quotient watching a preschooler play make-believe: but believe it or not, this is a contemporary DC superhero comic. It follows the exploits of DC’s absolute worst character (and that’s a competition that encompasses Voodoo and Sergeant Rock’s idiot son), Barry Allen. Liked by no reasonable human being under the age of…oh, let’s say death, that’s a wide enough net, Barry is a cop with a crew cut so yellow it could only have descended from the most Aryan of stocks, brought back to life in the DC Universe by Geoff Johns in a force of selfish editorial will that does a finer job describing the man’s feelings about comics better than any of the hundreds of stories he’s ever written: Geoff likes Barry Allen the best, and these shine boxes belong to him. However, due to circumstances beyond his control (actually, circumstances he created that were totally within his control), Johns had to hand the actual chore of writing Barry’s adventures to his artist partner, Francis Manapul. And with the assistance of his colorist Brian Buccellato, Manapul’s Flash title has become an intermittently entertaining read, albeit one with plots built to showcase Manapul and Buccellato’s consuming passion for the eye candy aspect of what a super-hero comic can be. Over and over again, the comic strives mostly to stun, and they’re able to manage a solid bit of visual quirkiness every few pages, like panels built out of rivulets of tears, tiny fractures of ice spreading in the wake of speed, or a melodramatic language built mostly from the way Manapul renders eye movements. It’s a display of skill that’s remarkable mostly in how it’s being so totally wasted–here, after all, is a comic that might appeal to children, right when DC has fully mastered the ability to keep those sorts of people outside in the rain, along with all the fucking girls.


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## Tazmo (Mar 30, 2012)

This thread is now closed it has a continuation thread *Here*


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