# Aspiring shiny novelists gather!  - Part 2



## Reznor (Aug 18, 2014)

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is *Here*


----------



## Tazmo (Aug 18, 2014)

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is *Here*


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 18, 2014)

It usually drags on a few pages.


----------



## Nordstrom (Aug 18, 2014)

So it'd seem.


----------



## Sanity Check (Aug 20, 2014)

What is it we do here, exactly?


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 20, 2014)

We discuss plans to blow up the Earth and move to Mars. We've already established several colonies on the red planet us and a select few others are able to survive in for about 50 years.


----------



## Nordstrom (Aug 20, 2014)

Actually, we discuss how to create a gigantic tidal wave to sink most of the planet while the few of us libertarian privileged elites get to evacuate into Mid Childa in luxurious dimension faring ships as refugees while subjecting ourselves to surgery to be able to wield magic and alter our physical appearance to suit our desires before arrival before embarking on to start anew in a world that suits our wishes.

The plans are about ready and now we're discussing possible doomsday launch dates. President Putin, Hamas and Assad just volunteered to start the destruction. They'll be received as heroes in the dimension ship once the world's about to go to shit and we initiate the boarding process.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 20, 2014)

To be honest, we're actually planning WWIII as a nuclear holocaust and the world as we know it will be gone. People have a chance to escape on ships known as Arcs. They are located on the tips of the world --Tierra del Fuego; Argentina, Key West, Florida; Madagascar, etc. There, we will set a course for Kelper 22B, a distant planet much like ours, and we will have to learn to survive on he planet with its new resources and wildlife. 

The people who stayed on Earth will not survive the high concentrations of radiation and will either die or their children will come out mutated if they survive long enough for that. No water will be drinkable, there will be very little food, if any, and the only thing you will be able to do is die. 

It will take a couple hundred/thousand years to get to the planet so we're gonna have to pull off some sort of a Wall-E esque type survival thing.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 20, 2014)

That escalated quickly.


----------



## Nordstrom (Aug 20, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> To be honest, we're actually planning WWIII as a nuclear holocaust and the world as we know it will be gone. People have a chance to escape on ships known as Arcs. They are located on the tips of the world --Tierra del Fuego; Argentina, Key West, Florida; Madagascar, etc. There, we will set a course for Kelper 22B, a distant planet much like ours, and we will have to learn to survive on he planet with its new resources and wildlife.
> 
> The people who stayed on Earth will not survive the high concentrations of radiation and will either die or their children will come out mutated if they survive long enough for that. No water will be drinkable, there will be very little food, if any, and the only thing you will be able to do is die.
> 
> It will take a couple hundred/thousand years to get to the planet so we're gonna have to pull off some sort of a Wall-E esque type survival thing.



Aren't you aware we've reverse engineered dimension drives from some weird stuff the TSAB and USAF "accidentally" left behind?


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 20, 2014)

Sleipnyr said:


> Aren't you aware we've reverse engineered dimension drives from some weird stuff the TSAB and USAF "accidentally" left behind?



I don't know what TSAB and USAF is, but no, I'm am not. Do tell.


----------



## Sanity Check (Aug 20, 2014)

Sleipnyr said:


> Actually, we discuss how to create a gigantic tidal wave to sink most of the planet while the few of us libertarian privileged elites get to evacuate into Mid Childa in luxurious dimension faring ships as refugees while subjecting ourselves to surgery to be able to wield magic and alter our physical appearance to suit our desires before arrival before embarking on to start anew in a world that suits our wishes.
> 
> The plans are about ready and now we're discussing possible doomsday launch dates. President Putin, Hamas and Assad just volunteered to start the destruction. They'll be received as heroes in the dimension ship once the world's about to go to shit and we initiate the boarding process.



I think if the ice and snow on Antarctica melted, sea levels would rise +-200 to 400 feet.  That might be a starting point, eh.  

Cue Dr. Evil with his giant..  *LASER* pointed at Antarctica and his demands for *1 MILLION DOLLAHS*.



Malicious Friday said:


> To be honest, we're actually planning WWIII as a nuclear holocaust and the world as we know it will be gone. People have a chance to escape on ships known as Arcs. They are located on the tips of the world --Tierra del Fuego; Argentina, Key West, Florida; Madagascar, etc. There, we will set a course for Kelper 22B, a distant planet much like ours, and we will have to learn to survive on he planet with its new resources and wildlife.
> 
> The people who stayed on Earth will not survive the high concentrations of radiation and will either die or their children will come out mutated if they survive long enough for that. No water will be drinkable, there will be very little food, if any, and the only thing you will be able to do is die.
> 
> It will take a couple hundred/thousand years to get to the planet so we're gonna have to pull off some sort of a Wall-E esque type survival thing.


----------



## Risyth (Aug 20, 2014)

*WE HAVE A NEW CHALLENGER *


----------



## Nordstrom (Aug 20, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> I don't know what TSAB and USAF is, but no, I'm am not. Do tell.



Google everyone!


----------



## spiritmight (Aug 21, 2014)

On page 122 of my at least 400-page novel, the first in a hopeful series of four.

I'll be done any day now....


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 21, 2014)

Didn't realize we had a new thread.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 21, 2014)

Correction: New _shiny_ thread


----------



## Krory (Aug 22, 2014)

I thought this was a Caf? thread for a minute.


----------



## Risyth (Aug 22, 2014)

*You always think it's a Cafe thread. ww*


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 22, 2014)

Yay!! You used shiny!!


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 23, 2014)

Trying to take out info dumps I can put in later is difficult because I don't know what I need to take out and keep in.


----------



## Risyth (Aug 23, 2014)

*"Info dumps"?*


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 23, 2014)

Walls of text that explain something in one go.


----------



## Risyth (Aug 23, 2014)

*Wait, so I don't understand what your process is right now. Mind explaining it? You've saved information on your story elsewhere and are now trying to insert it?*


----------



## Krory (Aug 23, 2014)

.


----------



## Risyth (Aug 23, 2014)

*^Says the desperate guy without a single chapter.*


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 24, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *Wait, so I don't understand what your process is right now. Mind explaining it? You've saved information on your story elsewhere and are now trying to insert it?*



I moved a bunch of stuff somewhere else to save it for later.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 28, 2014)

This quote popped up on Reddit and I thought I would share. 



> "Don’t write like your teachers or to please your teachers. Don’t write in a way that seems “in fashion.” It won’t be any fun and you won’t be very good at it. Try to write like yourself—but like your smartest, most complicated, strangest self." - Matthea Harvey




Also, I have created a dramatic interpretation of the AN thread re-imagined as a conversation about children. 

*MF:* Babies. How do you guys feel about babies. 
*Sleipnyr:*  My babies are actually Russian octopuses. They come from a distant world, but when they came to our world they assumed Russian identities after they caused Japan and the UK to join Russia. 
*Risyth:* I prefer not to look at the infants of others, for they might affect my own ability produce offspring.


----------



## Nordstrom (Aug 28, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> This quote popped up on Reddit and I thought I would share.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Replace "Octopus" with "Alien Space Bats" and you might be on to how the setting came to be


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 28, 2014)

You guys are alright.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 28, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> This quote popped up on Reddit and I thought I would share.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Tyreal:*  I'm a great parent, but I just don't know what to name or how to dress my babies.  I address them generically and let them run around naked.

*Pow:*  I'm the same way.  I have a baby that's 3 years old and I still don't know his name or what he looks like.


----------



## Tyrael (Aug 28, 2014)

HOLD THE PHONE.

So they aren't meant to be naked?


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 28, 2014)

If letting your many children run around the house unclothed with only large numbers written on their backs with sharpie as their only identity is wrong, I'm as wrong as they come.


----------



## Tyrael (Aug 28, 2014)

And I'd been assured that The Prisoner wasn't a documentary. Clearly I have been misled.


----------



## Nordstrom (Aug 28, 2014)

*CTK*: Shouldn't we raise them as modern gentlemen! Whatever those two together mean?
*Boskov*: That'd be boring... And unsettling...


----------



## Risyth (Aug 29, 2014)




----------



## Lord Yu (Aug 29, 2014)

I have so many big ideas that writing moment to moment gets hard.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 30, 2014)

Well sometime this week I'm going to send this query letter to this literary agent. 

Wish me luck peeps.







































































































































































































































































































































I'm gonna get rejected


----------



## Risyth (Sep 2, 2014)

*So, how'd it go? *


----------



## Malicious Friday (Sep 2, 2014)

He hasn't responded yet. So I'm just waiting.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 5, 2014)

Does anyone here ever get so caught up in trying to write something, "good," that they can't seem to write at all?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 5, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Does anyone here ever get so caught up in trying to write something, "good," that they can't seem to write at all?



That's the equivalent of writing "is anyone here writing".


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 6, 2014)

How do you portray super powered battles?  I'm sort of suited to more realistic martial arts theory so I'm not the best at representing magical super battles unless they were maybe flying gunfights.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Sep 6, 2014)

I choreograph the fight in my mind before hand and try my best to describe whats happening as I see it.


----------



## Risyth (Sep 6, 2014)

*Super-powered? Do you have a standard magical force? Like ki, energy, chi, chakra, the Force, etc? Something like that makes it easier. The background to and dialogue of a fight > the choreographic prose (now I'm just making up terms ww)*


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 6, 2014)

Choreographic prose. Like say two powerful mages or divine entities go at it.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Sep 6, 2014)

Writing that shit is hard, I wont lie.

Post an attempt


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 6, 2014)

I have to remember the last time I attempted it first.  Let me see. Not exactly a mage duel.



> This was it. Sepsizen Enzo. This was fight was all about remaining calm. Sumika cast a spell to dampen particle activity in the area to take care of the lightning fits. Without electricity to play with it would be down to his lesser magics and martial arts.
> 
> She took a step forward. He took a ready stance. It was a familiar stance. A stance she knew several counters for.  His first move fell apart badly as she nearly dislocated his shoulder after a thrown punch.  He came after her with kicks then but she caught his leg and kicked him off balance, if he were human he would have fallen badly. As uensgar he merely floated  back. He tried to bait her to fight high but she stayed low. While she couldn't reach him she could still force him close. She waved her arms round and round risking his lightning by breaking the dampening spell to create fire. He noticed it quickly but she was too fast and her control too great. Her control techniques were centuries ahead of his. He flew around and around but there was only so much room to escape in this observatory.
> The flames quickly caught him, roasting him alive.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Sep 6, 2014)

It felt pretty hard to follow to be honest


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 6, 2014)

Oh wait, I left out the start of the fight. Probably not any clearer.


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 7, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> How do you portray super powered battles?  I'm sort of suited to more realistic martial arts theory so I'm not the best at representing magical super battles unless they were maybe flying gunfights.



I go the usual "two cosmically powerful entities" way of things... Which means it's pretty much a dogfight, minus the aircraft. Or alternatively, mecha without mecha.



Risyth said:


> *Super-powered? Do you have a standard magical force? Like ki, energy, chi, chakra, the Force, etc? Something like that makes it easier. The background to and dialogue of a fight > the choreographic prose (now I'm just making up terms ww)*



Mana, lots and lots of mana (for mages) or ether (for Psychics).



Lord Yu said:


> Choreographic prose. Like say two powerful mages or divine entities go at it.



A divine entity which is also a mage...



~Avant~ said:


> Writing that shit is hard, I wont lie.
> 
> Post an attempt



This one's fairly short... So it may be confusing, specially since the attacks aren't even named or have obvious effects, and at first it seems like purple prose (that's how you do it) but then you understand that there are no metaphors and things are literally happening around you.

This is an excerpt though, so don't expect to follow the dialogue.



> - Stop! - I commanded, my voice echoing through the crisp, cold morning air.
> 
> I did not expect this to be heeded. I did not expect "it" to even slow "it's" advance, but, much to everyone's surprise... And my own, the behemoth stood firmly in place, head bowed obediently. It was then that I looked into those cerulean eyes for the first time ever and realized why...
> 
> ...


----------



## ~Avant~ (Sep 8, 2014)

It works, but instead of the word "fell" I might have used plummeted. The word single-handedly threw me off from what was happening. I had to reread it to get what was going on.

But it wasnt so much of a fight as it was a character delivering a powerful lightning strike. Which I might add was illustrated beautifully.


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 8, 2014)

Given that by that point in the story, the main lead is well above most of the cast in terms of power (think FFVIII and Sorceress' Magic vs Fake magic) that it's very hard for a battle not to be a single stroke curbstomp. That said, most battles are "turn based" in that they are actually several scenes like that one in fast succession, with a little less monologue and an slightly faster pace.

Writing very powerful battles is certainly not easy, and the only way to deliver the point home is to make sure to give readers the impression that a single attack can end it.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 8, 2014)

So you're saying D&D style turns?


----------



## Malicious Friday (Sep 8, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> How do you portray super powered battles?  I'm sort of suited to more realistic martial arts theory so I'm not the best at representing magical super battles unless they were maybe flying gunfights.



I choreograph them in my head most of the time, but I also sometimes steal them from anime. Like in the first chapter of my book, Reduele is fighting demon birds like Maka did with Jack the Ripper. A part of a huge fight in my second book comes from the third episode of Kill la Kill, the fight in "Steven the Sword Fighter" from Steven Universe and shit. The rest of it is my own.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Sep 8, 2014)

Well you also have to remember to describe the damage its doing to the surrounding. That is what makes all the difference.

A lance can be thrown by anyone, but a lance thats thrown and destroys a mountain is what adds gravitas to the attack.

I'm going to finish fleshing out my deutrogonist's abilities today. Once I do I'll post up a scene of him and my protagonist fighting.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 8, 2014)

I'm probably too realistic in the way I approach some fights and probably also a little too brief in my descriptions.  I try not to get to lose myself in describing stances or footwork. I really don't know much about a coherent magic fight.


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 8, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> So you're saying D&D style turns?



I'd say it's even more simplistic. Attacks are so powerful that each character thinks the attack will always be a direct hit, so it's a "heads or tails" bet whenever an attack is used... If it succeeds, the battle ends, if it fails, the caster braces for an attack almost straight off the bat because of the incoming counterattack. Their speed is so great that there's little window for consecutive attacks unless the battle becomes one of speed, in which case, it becomes more akin to an "ATB fight" just like those in the Lightning Saga, where all depends on how fast you and your attacks are.

The structure is fairly simple.

Attack>Win

Attack>Lose>Counter>Defense>Counter>Counter>
Counter>Attack>Counter>Defense>Defense>Attack
>Winner (6 turns)

In fast paced fights it's more complicated, and it's more akin to watching to people dance. Reading up on dancing scenes helps, since it's pretty much the same, but instead of "he spun her to his side" it's "he spun to her left, searing red into ivory white".



~Avant~ said:


> Well you also have to remember to describe the damage its doing to the surrounding. That is what makes all the difference.
> 
> A lance can be thrown by anyone, but a lance thats thrown and destroys a mountain is what adds gravitas to the attack.
> 
> I'm going to finish fleshing out my deutrogonist's abilities today. Once I do I'll post up a scene of him and my protagonist fighting.



There's not much damage with that particular attack. It literally takes a 2 meter thick, kilometers long and wide layer of air, preferably the one they're standing on, freezes it, and shatters it, creating gigantic blades of ice that turn anything standing on it into red shaved ice.

The most damage happens when the protagonist dukes it out with an interdimensional military captain from another world and she almost levels a mountain with an attack, at least until the main lead takes it in his hands, absorbs it and uses it to power his own attack that finishes her off. The counter is not overly powerful, simply being a narrow beam that pierces her shoulder, causing her weapon to snap from the strain of trying to contain the damage (weapons create armor and, if the attack is too strong for the armor to withstand, the weapon will attempt to overcompensate and break from the strain if it's unable to put up with the attacks' power).


----------



## Risyth (Sep 8, 2014)

*I think I'll post one of my fight scenes for reference.*


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 8, 2014)

Oooh, I want to read!


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 10, 2014)

I think I just found the theme I'd like for my main character...


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 10, 2014)

Not much for character themes though I have had an overall work theme in my head for like years.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 10, 2014)

Thanks to moving and having more hours and social shit to do the only writing I have done recently has been for games. This is a character back story I wrote for a girl I'm running in the Pathfinder "Shattered Star" Adventure Path (hopefully, you have to get picked). 



> In the same way that someone is destined to be a Paladin or might feel called to the vocation of Cleric, Amy is a born scholar. Raised under the crumbling ruins of the Thassilonian empire caused her to develop an early curiosity for the history of Golarion.
> 
> Fiona, her mother, runs a bookstore in Magnimar’s Shore District. Books on the legacy of Thassilonian culture were her toys and best friends. Most of her childhood was spent in her room curled up in the company of a dusty old tome or scroll. Even before she knew the words, Amy would stare at them for hours.
> 
> ...



And what the Hell, this is the character: 



And for those who know Pathfinder, *her sheet*.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 11, 2014)

I've been stalled for stupid reasons. I'm in what is usually my strongest area. I think my shift in preferences has altered my style too much for this.


----------



## Krory (Sep 11, 2014)

Yu, change your avatar, this is terrifying.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Sep 11, 2014)

No, keep it. It's bootyful.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 11, 2014)

krory said:


> Yu, change your avatar, this is terrifying.



Excellent, now I know to keep it.


----------



## Krory (Sep 11, 2014)

I hope some alien lifeform wraps its entire anal ring around your scalp, you evil person.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 11, 2014)

Sounds hawt.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 11, 2014)

Are we posting fight scenes?  

Kay.

_Context:  Dude is with a magical psychologist exploring childhood memories.
Personal happiness with scene 7/10:_




> The scene before me vanishes without conclusion.  It didn't matter, I knew the moment well enough, and what it entailed- what it meant.
> I focus again, to a later part of my childhood.  The dispersed fragments of imagination swirl back into mist, and then reform into a much different picture.
> 
> _Good work. What picture is this?_
> ...


----------



## Malicious Friday (Sep 12, 2014)

We're posting fight scenes now? Alrighty, here's one o' mine:



> Anetelia laughs victoriously, but her victory is celebrated a little too early. A sword slices her in half. It’s Steven. Anetelia’s body flies in the air. She looks down at the man, surprised. The Tenth Gem glows. Her skin, organs, veins and spine stretches to her lower half, which is, to Steven’s surprise, still standing. Her body reconnects and the witch roundhouse kicks Steven into the water with Redu?le. She starts walking onto the water.
> 
> Anetelia stands over the ripples left by Steven and Redu?le. She’s pulled underwater. The witch stares in the reaper’s livid eyes that have become ablaze by the fire of the Underworld. It feels like her entire soul is being mutilated by thousands of knives. Anetelia screams. Bad move, she’s losing oxygen.
> 
> ...



So this is at the end of the book. Anetelia has already acquired and assimilated all Thirteen Pieces of the Crown. Steven, Jackson and Reduele are trying to stop her right there in Louisiana. By the way, Anetelia is fighting naked


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 15, 2014)

@MaliciousFriday, that fight scene reads almost like a play by play.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Sep 15, 2014)

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 15, 2014)

Kind of a bad thing, I'd say here it detaches the reader from the action and feels like your giving a third party summary.  It could use some more emotion, some more impact to pull the reader into the events and get them to feel the tension felt by the characters.


----------



## Krory (Sep 15, 2014)

You know what had fun fight scenes? The intro to The Way of Kings. Just sayin'.

I could try to whip up something but that would imply I'm capable.


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 15, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> Kind of a bad thing, I'd say here it detaches the reader from the action and feels like your giving a third party summary.  It could use some more emotion, some more impact to pull the reader into the events and get them to feel the tension felt by the characters.



I noticed this as well. It felt a bit dry and descriptive, like my first writing style before it underwent major overhauls (you can thank an extensive ToV playthrough that is barely in disc one for that) and I fixed the pacing.

That aside, what about mine Yu? You seem well versed on this.



krory said:


> You know what had fun fight scenes? The intro to The Way of Kings. Just sayin'.
> 
> I could try to whip up something but that would imply I'm capable.



You talk so often about it that I'm sure you're capable. You just couldn't care less.


----------



## Krory (Sep 15, 2014)

I'm not sure how talking a lot means I have such capabilities.


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 16, 2014)

Might as well try and see what comes out of it.


----------



## Risyth (Sep 16, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> Kind of a bad thing, I'd say here it detaches the reader from the action and feels like your giving a third party summary.


*Just writing in the past tense fixes this 90% of the time.*


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 16, 2014)

Not true at all actually. His problem is the lack of engagement. Present tense can sometimes lend uncertainty and tension to a story.


----------



## Risyth (Sep 16, 2014)

*It's less effective overall. Actually rather dated. Either way, MF, you should at least give it a try and see what Lord Yu thinks then. For one, it's an easy fix (for that section, anyway).*


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 16, 2014)

I disagree. Tense doesn't matter as long as you effectively carry the reader through the action. The story hasn't finished, the story is happening now. That's the feeling present tense has. It's in the moment and all about that moment. You can't be aloof, you have to be on the ground feeling with the characters.


----------



## Risyth (Sep 16, 2014)

*No point in another argument; I should be working on my story anyway.*


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 16, 2014)

It's not an argument, just a hearty conversation and disagreement on the usefulness of mechanics.


----------



## Krory (Sep 16, 2014)

First-person is dated now?


----------



## crazymtf (Sep 16, 2014)

Present dated? I dunno about that. I like writing in both. I think present adds more of a one on one conversation to the overall story.


----------



## Krory (Sep 16, 2014)

Err, present. That's what I meant.

But yeah. Still asinine.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 16, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *It's less effective overall. Actually rather dated. Either way, MF, you should at least give it a try and see what Lord Yu thinks then. For one, it's an easy fix (for that section, anyway).*



How is present tense dated?  

Like Yu said, it adds tension and uncertainty to what's being written (though it seems to be used with first person most of the time). 

MF's selection has a problem with flow though and I don't think tense will fix that. That's a much harder thing to repair.


----------



## crazymtf (Sep 16, 2014)

I don't think I've ever read a fight scene in any book that made me super excited. Is that bad? Yeah...I just never read one where I was so blown away. Not yet anyway. Even in my favorite titles.


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 16, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> It's not an argument, just a hearty conversation and disagreement on the usefulness of mechanics.



Exactly. If I may ask again, did you notice any problems with my battle?



crazymtf said:


> Present dated? I dunno about that. I like writing in both. I think present adds more of a one on one conversation to the overall story.



The problem is attempting to reconcile the present tense with the pace. Present usually works for low impact events, but battles make it a little difficult to write due to the flow of the battle making the reader confused. Basically, there's no time to reminisce on what has happened and how things around have changed.

That style feels flat, at least to me after I attempted using it... Failing miserably.



crazymtf said:


> I don't think I've ever read a fight scene in any book that made me super excited. Is that bad? Yeah...I just never read one where I was so blown away. Not yet anyway. Even in my favorite titles.



Super excited? No. But it's supposed to make you want to go through pages until it's over. The point of a book is always wanting to read more, not to make you jump up and down from the excitement.

That happens before the book comes out


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 16, 2014)

crazymtf said:


> I don't think I've ever read a fight scene in any book that made me super excited. Is that bad? Yeah...I just never read one where I was so blown away. Not yet anyway. Even in my favorite titles.



Fights are very difficult to write and they don't tend to be the focal point of everything.  Though the fighting in the second Mistborn book was really well done and surprisingly clear when read.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 16, 2014)

Sleipnyr said:


> Exactly. If I may ask again, did you notice any problems with my battle?



Haven't looked at it yet. I'll tell you when I get around to it.


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 16, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Fights are very difficult to write and they don't tend to be the focal point of everything.  Though the fighting in the second Mistborn book was really well done and surprisingly clear when read.



I concluded that short bursts usually make the best battles. If a long sequence is needed, having your character run the gauntlet works much better.


----------



## Risyth (Sep 17, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> How is present tense dated?
> 
> Like Yu said, it adds tension and uncertainty to what's being written (though it seems to be used with first person most of the time).
> 
> MF's selection has a problem with flow though and I don't think tense will fix that. That's a much harder thing to repair.



*Sure, enjoy your create your own adventure-style novel.

@krory: Calling my claim asinine is ironic when it's coming from someone who's admitted failure more times than I can remember.*


----------



## Krory (Sep 17, 2014)

Risyth said:


> @krory: Calling my claim asinine is ironic when it's coming from someone who's admitted failure more times than I can remember.



I guess that depends on your definition of "irony" but I'm pretty sure even Alanis Morissette wouldn't agree with you there. In fact, your statement pretty much provides evidence of the _opposite_.

@Sleipnyr - When people start realizing battles don't need to be like five-episode anime arcs or a George Lucas light-saber battle that goes on for twenty minutes across sixteen set pieces, I think that'd be a good start.

Also getting past the notion that all character death needs to be heroic sacrifices or through big fights, duels, huge battles, etc. - that's where a lot of it stems from, particular people whose work gains influence from things like anime and manga. It worked for Boromir but at the same time something more spontaneous is a damn-good impact. I'm sure there'd be someone who has something to say about it, but Fred Weasley's death in _Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows_ is a good example. There is no huge stand-off, a duel, some foreshadowing. There's just a moment of relief and all of a sudden, he's dead. Of course it's in the midst of a huge battle but it occurs in what seems like downtime and just comes out of nowhere. Just an explosion as a wall blows open and as everyone recovers from it, he's just there, dead.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the "running the gauntlet" thing works well too, and is pretty much how I felt about the opening to _The Way of Kings_.

Though for Friday's example it looks more like it's a demonstration of power and status so none of that really applies.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 17, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *Sure, enjoy your create your own adventure-style novel.
> 
> @krory: Calling my claim asinine is ironic when it's coming from someone who's admitted failure more times than I can remember.*



It's not create your own style. There have been big name novels written in first person present tense. The first one that comes to mind is the Hunger Games series. I'm not trying to create shit, I'm writing it in the way it makes the most sense to. 

Of course if you'd post something for everyone else to see maybe we could see what masterpieces you're working on over there.


----------



## Krory (Sep 17, 2014)

First-person present-tense is pretty huge in young adult right now, but aside from that Chuck Palahniuk typically wrote in the style and the same style was adopted by similar authors like Jack Ketchum (although minimally for him, I believe) and Will Christopher Baer.

The misconception of it status is due to the fact that so many people - even professional critics and reviewers - flat-out refuse to read anything in that format to the point that they literally pretend it doesn't exist. I guess it helps them, makes them feel better about immediately rejecting a book without even viewing potential merits by insisting they're "archaic" and "outdated."


----------



## Risyth (Sep 17, 2014)

*So, time for another logic check.

Because I say the present-tense makes the reading sound outdated:

-I'm implying I have a masterpiece.
-I immediately stopped reading MF's scene once I saw it.

You guys are geniuses.*


----------



## Krory (Sep 17, 2014)

Funny, no one even accused you of the second... should someone _really_ be writing if they can't even read?


----------



## Risyth (Sep 17, 2014)

> The misconception of it status is due to the fact that so many people - even professional critics and reviewers - flat-out *refuse to read* anything in that format to the point that they literally pretend it doesn't exist. *I guess it helps them, makes them feel better about immediately rejecting a book without even viewing potential merits* by insisting they're "archaic" and "outdated."


*Reread this, moron. Exactly what you typed.

Maybe should you go back to where you belong. Namely the Blender. Your bitching's useless to MF and annoying to me*


----------



## Krory (Sep 17, 2014)

Funny, I don't see your name in that quote.... again, your reading comprehension is lacking. Unless you are suddenly the combined personification of "many" including "professional critics and reviewers"?

Probably not. You should probably work on that.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Sep 17, 2014)

So does, like, anyone have any, like, tips on how I should, like, put more emotion into my writing and, like, not make it sound, like, like a play-by-play, like, like?


----------



## crazymtf (Sep 17, 2014)

I didn't know critics didn't like first person/present tense. I love both haha. But I do write more third person past tense, that's for sure.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 17, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> So does, like, anyone have any, like, tips on how I should, like, put more emotion into my writing and, like, not make it sound, like, like a play-by-play, like, like?



Describe more than the action. Describe the impact on each of the characters. Alright, I sound a bit vague here. I just woke up.   Try, say, how Steven and his allies internal horror as they lose to Anetelia. 

Let's step back for some comparison. Remove yourself from the role of author, and think about it from the reader's perspective. What are some of your inspirations?


----------



## Puppetry (Sep 17, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> So does, like, anyone have any, like, tips on how I should, like, put more emotion into my writing and, like, not make it sound, like, like a play-by-play, like, like?



Don't be afraid to write something whacky/strange. Too often, writers go for tried and true metaphors and symbols.


----------



## Kingston (Sep 17, 2014)

I think a story about three elephants and one girl will be brilliant

Especially if you'd make it a thriller/horror


----------



## Krory (Sep 17, 2014)

A girl massacring three innocent elephants? A true tale of horror, if ever there was one.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 17, 2014)

A lot of editors are jaded and they stop reading things for all sorts of reasons.  Like if there's a quote at the beginning of the a novel.  I have heard them say they're tired of books starting with quotes so they just put them down right there.  Then there are times where they will quit if sex happens in the beginning or if a book starts with sex.  Some of them stop if a book starts with weather description or the sky or any number of other things.  

But if your story wants to be told in present tense and they're going to shoot you down for that then you shouldn't just change how everything works for that reason.  If it works and it wants to be told that way do it and shop around harder to find someone who will accept it as is.  You don't have to compromise everything and that's a pretty big thing.  

Trying to do something every editor is going to like will leave you writing nothing.


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 17, 2014)

It's best, during fight scenes, to start blow-by-blow then pull back and become more abstract. Description of action isn't the same as action - you can't expect audiences to be interested in the action (since there is no visceral thrill to it) so it's the context around the action and the internal character work that hooks us in instead.

By all means pepper little physical description in there, but most of the conflict isn't rooted in the physical struggle.

Good author's at writing action that spring to mind are Dan Abnett and Joe Abercrombie.


----------



## Risyth (Sep 17, 2014)

krory said:


> Funny, I don't see your name in that quote.... again, your reading comprehension is lacking. Unless you are suddenly the combined personification of "many" including "professional critics and reviewers"?
> 
> Probably not. You should probably work on that.



*-That's not personification. At all. Look the word up: you don't know the definition.

-You know you had me in mind since you were referring to things I said and a stance I had. 

It's called an allusion. Learn the word. You wouldn't have brought me up unless I remarked about the present tense, right? Or did you just have that post on hold the past several hours, conveniently and thoughtlessly deciding to let it go only right after I happened to fit the bill of the critics and stance you were referring to?

Just shut up if you can't own up to being an amnesic failure. Your attempt at lying is pathetic.*


----------



## Krory (Sep 17, 2014)

I made a mistake. Guess what? I can admit that. I'm sorry that you can't.

Except we were talking about the commonality of the practice of dismiss present-tense, first-person works. Believe it or not, you are not a unique snowflake in that regard. There's six people here talking about present tense and again, you are hardly the only person in the world with that view point. And you are still ignoring not only everyone _else_ talking to you just to argue with me, but also the fact that again, in the very same post, I referenced _an entire group_ of people.

I'm sorry you have this inane, psychotic conspiracy theory that I'm out to get you but perhaps you should take a step back and seek some professional help because you're officially going off the deep-end here over something so silly. Please, for your sake, figure something out because you're just breaking apart here.


----------



## Risyth (Sep 18, 2014)

*I'm sorry, krory. I didn't mean to offend you.*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 18, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> It's best, during fight scenes, to start blow-by-blow then pull back and become more abstract. Description of action isn't the same as action - you can't expect audiences to be interested in the action (since there is no visceral thrill to it) so it's the context around the action and the internal character work that hooks us in instead.
> 
> By all means pepper little physical description in there, but most of the conflict isn't rooted in the physical struggle.
> 
> Good author's at writing action that spring to mind are Dan Abnett and Joe Abercrombie.



I still need to read some of that Abercrombie's stuff.


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 18, 2014)

The First Law trilogy is where it is at man.


----------



## Krory (Sep 18, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> The First Law trilogy is where it is at man.



Is the solo book - not sure if it's just a spin-off or a prequel or something - just as good?


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 18, 2014)

I've only read the Best Served Cold, but I don't think that was the same standard. Started reading The Heroes, but again it's not really living up to the standard set by the original trilogy.

All of his novels (except his most recent YA) are set in the same world and often share characters, so none of them are spin-offs exactly, more akin to a serialised storyline.


----------



## Krory (Sep 18, 2014)

Yes, Best Served Cold, that's what I was thinking of. Thanks.


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 19, 2014)

Don't get me wrong, I liked BSC - Abercombie's prose continues to improve. It just felt like, for the type of story it was trying to be, it was overlong and unwieldy in structure. It felt like a tight revenge story structured like an epic fantasy, and I didn't think it worked.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Sep 24, 2014)

Has anyone thought of all the books they're going to write? These are mine: 

*The Four Worlds: A Beautiful World
The Four Worlds: A New World Order
See no Evil
Speak no Evil
Hear no Evil
Do no Evil
The Calendar: The Between Dimensions
The Calendar: Day Theory*
Nuclear Destination
The Hunger Gospel
Arena Trap
The Reset Button (maybe)

Well, these are just what I've mostly thought of for now. I think a lot.
The ones in bold red are all connected. 

Technically they all are since they sit on the same timeline of Earth.


----------



## Krory (Sep 25, 2014)

Mine      are:


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 25, 2014)

krory, to be honest your apparent effort against making an effort is frustrating. Go out and throw garbage on a page, it's at least more productive than making fun of yourself for being unproductive.

I have a bunch of titles.



*The Doll and The Madman*:
_The Long Dream
The Goddess and The King Without a Kingdom_
*The Fires of Emagein*
*The Gear Eyed Girl*


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 25, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> Has anyone thought of all the books they're going to write? These are mine:
> 
> *The Four Worlds: A Beautiful World
> The Four Worlds: A New World Order
> ...



Actually, I have...


Prelude
Overture
Entracte
Nocturne

That's before the break of course. I'll continue afterwards with a time-skip since I have to deal with an spin off first.

*All books connected unless otherwise noted.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 25, 2014)

> The Goddess and The King Without a Kingdom
> The Gear Eyed Girl



I love these two titles.  

The first seems almost like a melancholy fairy tale, and the second...I don't know what the second is, but it makes me want to read it.



This is pretty cool too.  Please consider it for the title of an e-book.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 25, 2014)

The Gear Eyed Girl is the sequel to The Goddess and The King Without a Kingdom and both after The Long Dream.


----------



## Krory (Sep 25, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> krory, to be honest your apparent effort against making an effort is frustrating. Go out and throw garbage on a page, it's at least more productive than making fun of yourself for being unproductive.



If I cease being unproductive, I cease being krory.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 25, 2014)

Then cease being krory.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Sep 27, 2014)

*sighs*

I got bored of editing so I'm starting to write the second book, _The Four Worlds: A New World_.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 28, 2014)

Got a whole lot of ideas this weekend without my computer. Probably won't work them until I'm sure I have a stable computer.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 29, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> Got a whole lot of ideas this weekend without my computer. Probably won't work them until I'm sure I have a stable computer.



Dude Pawn Shops.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 29, 2014)

I'm getting a new one sometime this week.  I got this one when my old one died. This is a refurbished ancient unit.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Sep 29, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> Got a whole lot of ideas this weekend without my computer. Probably won't work them until I'm sure I have a stable computer.



You should wirte 'em down in case you forget.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Oct 1, 2014)

So I'v created a tolkienesque world named Daath, upon which their are several different fantasy type races. Each of the races has a culture similar to those of our world. 

So any way, I'm undecided on what the final race should be. They're culture will be based on the ancient philippines and they have the ability to manipulate the earth.

Possible candidates for my final race are either Gnomes or Minotaurs, but I'm not really sure they fit with the aesthetic of my world. So anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 1, 2014)

I really don't like it when people set race to culture. (No offense, sorry for using your post for rant fuel) Anyway, I have five altered human races called Deyul. Within them are many different cultures. One of the things I made a conscious decision not to do is conflate race and culture.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Oct 1, 2014)

What do you mean by conflating race with culture?


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 2, 2014)

~Avant~ said:


> So I'v created a tolkienesque world named Daath, upon which their are several different fantasy type races. Each of the races has a culture similar to those of our world.
> 
> So any way, I'm undecided on what the final race should be. They're culture will be based on the ancient philippines and they have the ability to manipulate the earth.
> 
> Possible candidates for my final race are either Gnomes or Minotaurs, but I'm not really sure they fit with the aesthetic of my world. So anyone have any suggestions?



I suck at Tolkienesque settings. I made a world by the name of Sylvania that is divided into an utopian futuristic paradise a la FFXIII Cocoon or Elysium's eponymous space station and another region comparable to all the world's myths and fairy tales merged together into one Supercontinent. In the first, technology dominates but magic is still widespread, whereas in the latter, magic overrules technology, but the latter is still present, it's just not readily apparent.

Culture and race wise, ethnicity is determined by the regions in which a certain lore oversees. The protagonist's bloodline hails from a cold, yet clear region in a central plateau that represents Norse Jottunheim and Nifleheim. It's full of castles and old medieval houses, celebrates harvest festivals not unlike Halloween and there are no cities, only towns that revolve around a Kremlin or castle fortress and where there's a festive atmosphere year round. They celebrate lots of Halloweenesque festivals and speak either in Norwegian, English or Russian. Their population's ethnicity is an amalgamation of Norse-descendant people (East Slavs, Scandinavians) and some Celtic and Germanic peoples.

Race wise, it has classical beasts of Germanic mythology, which are present almost everywhere, but people and races themselves come in regional flavors. If I knew about how you built your setting, I could give you a hand, but I'm at a loss otherwise because I usually let the origin decide the ethnicity and races.



Lord Yu said:


> I really don't like it when people set race to culture. (No offense, sorry for using your post for rant fuel) Anyway, I have five altered human races called Deyul. Within them are many different cultures. One of the things I made a conscious decision not to do is conflate race and culture.



I averted that somewhat by having the diverse technological regions and also by keeping freedom of movement. The most enjoyable thing was seeing lots of Japanese Sylvanians serving Knight Corps in Jottunheim and some Norwegian men and women in sexy shirtless hakama and no neckline kimonos looking at Sakura trees and sporting Japanese names.

Remember that a page about Mary Sues dealt with completely unrelated stuff being mixed? (A Western female swordswoman named Sakura?) Well, too late 



~Avant~ said:


> What do you mean by conflating race with culture?



Basically relegating a race to a culture. It'd be like saying all Asians are techy or all Americans are ignorant or all Russians are loud. Specially so with the races you're toying with like minotaurs in the Philippines. It's OK if they originated there, but limiting them to that setting usually means that unless it's a traveling storyline, a setting is going to run out of characters pretty fast.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Oct 2, 2014)

I wont be able to explain my world without going in-depth, so I apologize now for the long read that is sure to follow.

Ok, starting off millions of years ago when the Gods came into being into the universe, they divided themselves into 20 separate Pantheons, and created their own civilizations. Each Pantheon ruled over different parts of the Cosmos and within their territories existed mortal creatures who they would deem worthy in teaching. This would result in 20 different races having different types of culture, learned from the pantheon of Gods they believed in. Eventually in a great war all the races would be decimated and be forced to coexist upon a single planet named Daath, and the Gods would be exiled to earth, where they would rule the Earth in different sectors, and teach the humans their way of life as well.

The Inuit Gods, would find an aquatic race of beings called Undines, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to that of the Inuit Tribes of Earth. The Undines look similar to the Zora from The Legend of Zelda and can manipulate Water.

The Maori Gods, would find a race of beings called Goblins, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to that of the Maori Tribes of Earth. The Goblins look similar to a cross between Calgara from One Piece and the brown Orcs from Warcraft  and can manipulate Magma.

The Iroquois Gods, would find a race of beings called the Drow, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to that of the Iroquios Tribes of Earth. The Drow look similar to the Night Elves from Warcraft and can manipulate Wood.

The Aztec Gods, would find a race of beings called the Faerie, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to that of the Ancient Aztecs of Earth. The Faerie look similar to the Level 4 Akuma's from D.Gray Man and can manipulate Void.

The Inca Gods, would find a race of beings called the Nymphs, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to that of the Ancient Inca of Earth. The Nymphs look similar to a mix between the Bug Transformations from Terra Formars and the Zoalords from Guyver and can manipulate Venom.

The Greek Gods, would find a race of beings called the Ogres, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to that of the Ancient Greeks of Earth, specifically Sparta. The Ogres look like the Hulk from Marvel and can manipulate Gravity.

The Roman Gods, would find a race of beings called the Elves, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to that of the Ancient Romans of Earth. The Elves look like the Blood Elves from Warcraft and can manipulate Lightning.

The Slavic Gods, would find a race of beings called the Valkyrie, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to that of the Ancient Slavic people of Earth. The Valkyrie look like a mix between Victor from Buso Renkin and Sinbads Focalor Djinn Equip from Magi and can manipulate Light.

The Celtic Gods, would find a race of beings called the Centaur, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to that of the Ancient Celts of Earth. The Centaur look like Isley's awakened form from Claymore and can manipulate Smoke.

The Norse Gods, would find a race of beings called the Gargoyles, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to the Ancient Norse peoples of Earth. The Gargoyles look like a mix between Goliath from Gargoyles and the Draenei from Warcraft and can manipulate Ice.

The Egyptian Gods, would find a race of beings called the Lamias, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to the Ancient Egyptians of Earth. The male Lamias look like Gargant from Onimusha and the females look like Medusa from Kid Icarus and can manipulate Crystals.

The Orisha Gods, would find a race of beings called the Trolls, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to the African Orisha tribes of Earth. The Trolls look similar to the Trolls from Warcraft and can manipulate Acid.

The Hindu Gods, would find a race of beings called the Garudas, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to the Ancient Indians of Earth. The Garudas look similar to Garudamon from Digimon.

The Arabian Gods, would find a race of beings called the Cyclops, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to the Ancient Arabians of Earth. The Cyclops' look similar to a mix between Gray Fox from Metal Gear Solid and Boros from One Punch Man and can manipulate Sand.

The Persian Gods, would find a race of beings called the Nosferatu, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to the Ancient Persians of Earth. The Nosferatu look similar to a mix between Chaos Vincent from Final Fantasy VII Dirge of Cerberus and Zet from Zetman and can manipulate Blood.

The Chinese Gods, would find a race of beings called the Primals, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to the Ancient Chinese of Earth. The Primals look similar to the Thunder Cats from the 2011 reboot and can manipulate Sound.

The Mongolian Gods, would find a race of beings called the Dwarves, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to the Ancient Mongolians of Earth. The Dwarves look similar to the Dwarves from Warcraft.

The Korean Gods, would find a race of beings called the Morlocks, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to the Ancient Koreans of Earth. The Morlocks look similar to Nightmare from Soul Calibur 2, without his Armor and with dark purple skin. The Morlocks can manipulate Darkness.

The Japanese Gods, would find a race of beings called the Oni, who would develop language, weapons, and traditions similar to the Ancient Japanese of Earth. The Oni look similar to Samanosuke's Oni form from Onimusha and can manipulate Fire.

The names of the races are all colloquial terms used by the humans that also live on the planet with them, who were originally from our world. But the races themselves never address themselves with these names.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 3, 2014)

~Avant~ said:


> What do you mean by conflating race with culture?



I think Lord Yu means that you have one race, with one culture.  For example, in real life we have the race of humans, but thousands of different cultures.  Even within the divisions of races, or areas, each subset can have a different culture.  White English culture is different from White French culture is different from White Nordic culture.  Then you have Southern Frinch, and Parisian, and country French, and the various economic classes, ect, all with their own spin on French culture.  Often times in fantasy you have an elf, and they stem from elven culture, and every elf everywhere has that same culture, with the same attitudes, the same traditions, the same beliefs, ect. no matter where in the elf nation they come from.  To the point where mentioning their race is the same as referring to their culture.


----------



## Puppetry (Oct 3, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> Has anyone thought of all the books they're going to write?



Titles are usually the last piece to come to me, regardless of what I'm writing. Whenever I attempt starting with a title, I feel a tedious sense of obligation to remain faithful to it. I try to make every line reference the the name when it should be the other way around; the work should represent the title. 



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Often times in fantasy you have an elf, and they stem from elven culture, and every elf everywhere has that same culture, with the same attitudes, the same traditions, the same beliefs, ect. no matter where in the elf nation they come from.  To the point where mentioning their race is the same as referring to their culture.



I think that's oftentimes for fear of not wanting to digress too much from the plot. All those dimensions are nice, and I would appreciate the effort, but there comes a point when embellishments weigh down and distract from what might otherwise be a good story.

I remember trudging through Anne Rice's _The Witching Hour,_ an interesting tale about a demon and the clan of witches it served for generations. The concept was solid - a demon constantly trying to gain power and freedom from his masters - but a 500 page info dump that was the middle of the book killed me. The stories told in that section were okay, but they felt too independent of the main point to really stick with me.


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 3, 2014)

I don't like info dumps and if you do it right you can easily thread all kinds of world information throughout a story without stopping the plot.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 3, 2014)

Puppetry said:


> Titles are usually the last piece to come to me, regardless of what I'm writing. Whenever I attempt starting with a title, I feel a tedious sense of obligation to remain faithful to it. I try to make every line reference the the name when it should be the other way around; the work should represent the title.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A person could simply depict different members of a race as acting differently, or have it mentioned that the ones from there love their something, where the ones from elswhere love something else.  

Perhaps a dwarf mentions their fine southern cheese making village, and later the hero tries to woo information out of a dwarf out of a northern dwarf my talking about cheese, and it doesn't work, because that northern city is all about the clam bakes.  The acknowledgement alone gives a feeling of depth, without the need for an info dump.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Oct 3, 2014)

Well I actually did think about that when considering my races and their cultures.

So I looked to science to the answer. According to some scientists, in the following centuries humanity will inevitably become one single race, have a single language, and a single belief system. In a long enough timeline we all become the same.

The races in my story had time to reach that point. But when all their civilizations collapsed in a great war, it forced all of them to coexist within a single planet.


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 3, 2014)

Honestly, I think that's patently ridiculous. Even if we somehow managed to slap together a united world government we'd still have a wide variety of languages and cultures. That whole one culture and one race thing ignores both how cultures actually evolve and genetics actually work. Genes are more like a shuffled deck than a melting pot. People will look different than they do now but still not homogeneous. 

Barring instrumentality human beings are individuals and have individual perceptions of everything. Again I don't mean to insult but it's just the more I've studied sociology and language the more ridiculous that one world culture theory sounds to me. Same for genetics and the one race thing. Hell, really race is a social construct that evolves over time as well.

Again not to knock what you're trying to do it's just my inner academic screaming at me. =/


----------



## Risyth (Oct 3, 2014)

*Sorry to suddenly change the subject, but how do you guys map out your scenes?*


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 3, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> A person could simply depict different members of a race as acting differently, or have it mentioned that the ones from there love their something, where the ones from elswhere love something else.
> 
> Perhaps a dwarf mentions their fine southern cheese making village, and later the hero tries to woo information out of a dwarf out of a northern dwarf my talking about cheese, and it doesn't work, because that northern city is all about the clam bakes.  The acknowledgement alone gives a feeling of depth, without the need for an info dump.



I know that feel...

What I did was to have different species act differently on their region. Most of the main cast are all Jotnar, yet they refer to themselves differently. The main character refers to himself as a Jotunn, like one of his girlfriends, but his third girlfriend calls herself a Titan (Roman mythology) as they hail from different regions.



Lord Yu said:


> Honestly, I think that's patently ridiculous. Even if we somehow managed to slap together a united world government we'd still have a wide variety of languages and cultures. That whole one culture and one race thing ignores both how cultures actually evolve and genetics actually work. Genes are more like a shuffled deck than a melting pot. People will look different than they do now but still not homogeneous.
> 
> Barring instrumentality human beings are individuals and have individual perceptions of everything. Again I don't mean to insult but it's just the more I've studied sociology and language the more ridiculous that one world culture theory sounds to me. Same for genetics and the one race thing. Hell, really race is a social construct that evolves over time as well.
> 
> Again not to knock what you're trying to do it's just my inner academic screaming at me. =/



I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that theory was rather stupid. No offense to anyone who might have been fooled into it though.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 3, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *Sorry to suddenly change the subject, but how do you guys map out your scenes?*



Map? Sorry, but what does that mean exactly?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 3, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> Honestly, I think that's patently ridiculous. Even if we somehow managed to slap together a united world government we'd still have a wide variety of languages and cultures. That whole one culture and one race thing ignores both how cultures actually evolve and genetics actually work. Genes are more like a shuffled deck than a melting pot. People will look different than they do now but still not homogeneous.
> 
> Barring instrumentality human beings are individuals and have individual perceptions of everything. Again I don't mean to insult but it's just the more I've studied sociology and language the more ridiculous that one world culture theory sounds to me. Same for genetics and the one race thing. Hell, really race is a social construct that evolves over time as well.
> 
> Again not to knock what you're trying to do it's just my inner academic screaming at me. =/



Blame Fantasy and Science Fiction for making this worse in writing. I mean every elf basically acts the same while every Dwarf basically acts another way and there is rarely any attempt to rewrite what these things mean. 

Worse still are the always evil races. Orcs for example. It just gets tiring to have that sort of thing  repeated over and over in writing. We're just kind of getting to where it's not happening anymore. 

The thing where a whole planet just has one culture is likewise stupid Unless the planet was recently colonized by one people from another world. Even then, they would start to develop differently over time. It's just lazy writing and it's easy to tell a story where you can expect a certain race's race to characterize them all.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 3, 2014)

I don't believe in the one culture theory either.  It's the nature of humanity and biology to diversify, not homogenize.  Even cities that have long multi-cultural histories becomes salads, rather than melting pots.  I think at most we'd get a common global culture in addition to all our other unique cultures.  

Though I can accept it in a sci-fi or fantasy setting just to explore it.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 3, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I don't believe in the one culture theory either.  It's the nature of humanity and biology to diversify, not homogenize.  Even cities that have long multi-cultural histories becomes salads, rather than melting pots.  I think at most we'd get a common global culture in addition to all our other unique cultures.
> 
> Though I can accept it in a sci-fi or fantasy setting just to explore it.



The reason why I try not to accept it is because it's an attitude that's totally based on the otherness of something and how all these things are like because they're not part of the same group that I am. This is the typical human attitude and thought process and it just shows a lack of the person looking outside of their own experience to pull any inspiration.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Oct 3, 2014)

I'm avoiding most of those types of tropes within my story. Though, so just because I classify one race with one culture, I dont believe it to be practical for all the individuals within that culture to uniformly accept what their culture believes.

And likewise I'm trying to sort of put the normal consensus of Elves=Good while Ogres=Bad on its head in my story. The Elves have a society similar to the Romans in my story, which allows to show many separate shades to their Culture from different perspectives from the individuals who I will focus on.

Meanwhile the Ogres were once slaves to the Elves, forced to fight as Gladiators. They rebelled and formed a society influenced from their Old Culture that was similar to Ancient Athens in Greece and from their history as Gladiators, to form a society more similar to that of the Spartans.

For the most part however, the Ogres play a "good" role in my story, while the Elves come off as power hungry and corrupt individuals except for an honorable few.


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 4, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Blame Fantasy and Science Fiction for making this worse in writing. I mean every elf basically acts the same while every Dwarf basically acts another way and there is rarely any attempt to rewrite what these things mean.
> 
> Worse still are the always evil races. Orcs for example. It just gets tiring to have that sort of thing  repeated over and over in writing. We're just kind of getting to where it's not happening anymore.
> 
> The thing where a whole planet just has one culture is likewise stupid Unless the planet was recently colonized by one people from another world. Even then, they would start to develop differently over time. It's just lazy writing and it's easy to tell a story where you can expect a certain race's race to characterize them all.


Grandaddy Tolkien had Elves with different culture and languages but nobody copies that part. I can understand because it's hard. There a lot of factors in culture.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 4, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> Grandaddy Tolkien had Elves with different culture and languages but nobody copies that part. I can understand because it's hard. There a lot of factors in culture.



Yeah Legolas was basically a hick elf.


----------



## Risyth (Oct 4, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> Map? Sorry, but what does that mean exactly?



*Sorry, I mean how do you describe the settings your scenes will take place in?*


----------



## Malicious Friday (Oct 4, 2014)

*Spoiler*: _Didn't want to go off-topic_ 



I'm probably not gonna get back to my first book's editing for a while, but it's pretty much done right now. 

If you want read it, PM me, please.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 4, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *Sorry, I mean how do you describe the settings your scenes will take place in?*



Usually, I give a detailed description when entering a place, describing the surroundings and people and what they are doing and so on. Just like in games where you get an overview of an area before you actually are in.



Malicious Friday said:


> *Spoiler*: _Didn't want to go off-topic_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Depends, what is the book about?


----------



## Malicious Friday (Oct 4, 2014)

^^^



> Melissa doesn’t know it yet, but she is the Thirteenth Piece to the Crown of the Four Worlds, an ultimate item said to give its wearer absolute power and monarchy of the planet. After being attacked by demons, she was rescued by a man who then takes her to the Middle World. There, she learns she is being hunted down by the demon-witch Anetelia. Now she must learn to control the Piece in side of her or become a sacrifice to the witch’s beautiful world.



Basically the summary I've been using.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 4, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> Grandaddy Tolkien had Elves with different culture and languages but nobody copies that part. I can understand because it's hard. There a lot of factors in culture.



Grandaddy Tolkien? To me, my grandaddy has always been CS Lewis (minus the religious symbolism).



Malicious Friday said:


> ^^^
> 
> 
> 
> Basically the summary I've been using.



Yes. PM it to me.


----------



## Risyth (Oct 4, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> Usually, I give a detailed description when entering a place, describing the surroundings and people and what they are doing and so on. Just like in games where you get an overview of an area before you actually are in.



*I used to do that but I almost always just describe as I go along. It's some advice I've been getting and I like the way it works. Kind of funny how the reader can interpret your stuff well if your level's good enough. Though I fall back on details when there's no other way. I have no problem with that either, so I understand where you're coming from entirely. I try to avoid the long paragraphs of description, though.

If I said "description is best interactive"...I wonder how many would agree....*


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 4, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> Grandaddy Tolkien? To me, my grandaddy has always been CS Lewis (minus the religious symbolism).
> 
> .



Tolkien has the larger influence on the genre.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 4, 2014)

Tolkien's lore sometimes went way too deep on the dirt and grityness and I decided to write about much lighter "fairy tale" type fantasy. The sort of stuff you see in cool anime JRPGs that aren't set in the future or school.


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 5, 2014)

JRPGs are also a major influence for me. As for Eastern influences as an aside. Much of Japanese fantasy was influenced by .

Metal and horror are also an influence for me. I guess it's influence talk now.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 5, 2014)

After listening to several hours of a John Ringo novel I'm prepared to say that any of you mother fuckers could be published successful novelists. Jesus. 


This book's plot is that Arab terrorists kidnap big breasted girls from Georgia colleges and take them to Syria. And a former seal makes his way to save them. The plot the terrorists have is that they're going to rape the girls on live web cast to break the Americans and the lesser Satans of Europe. 

The main character is racist (assuming that the kidnappers are Mexicans because they use a van, using the word ragheads) then there's some general misinformation (Africa didn't have written language until the white man came), then there's how the author spends the whole first chapter referring to women as liberal bitches. On top of that the main character stalks women and fantasizes about raping them. 

The whole book reads like it should be called "George Bush was Right" along with some torture porn of liberal women because they're all whores. It describes how their nipples get burned off with blow torches, how they're flayed and how the men are all evil rapists doing Allah's will. 

And for some reason Russians are helping the Arabs to make chemical weapons. 

And this is the first third of this book. I wish I could make this shit up.


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 5, 2014)

Was it a Paladin of Shadows? Because I heard that whole series is just a big joke.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 5, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> Was it a Paladin of Shadows? Because I heard that whole series is just a big joke.



Yes, that's exactly what it is. I can't believe that this is a thing. And Jello is telling me that this is one of the more tame things published by people under this publisher.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 5, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> JRPGs are also a major influence for me. As for Eastern influences as an aside. Much of Japanese fantasy was influenced by .
> 
> Metal and horror are also an influence for me. I guess it's influence talk now.



Tales of games, Soul Calibur games, Tekken, DOA, some Japanese and Chinese MMORPGs, Ragnarok Odyssey (or plain Ragnarok before it sucked) and other "high fantasy" type JRPGs influenced me a lot. BlazBlue, when you put the grim gritty side aside and lots of RPs in some forums have also had lot of influence as well.

My mainstay though, is for this to remain a YA romance, but aimed at male readers and carrying a "coming of age" influence to it. The fantasy elements are to be used once the story kicks into full force. Many people say Urban and high fantasy are mutually exclusive, and I want to do away with that notion.

Historical fiction, specially Greek and Norse mythology, and some Celtic and Spanish mythology has also influenced me.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> After listening to several hours of a John Ringo novel I'm prepared to say that any of you mother fuckers could be published successful novelists. Jesus.
> 
> This book's plot is that Arab terrorists kidnap big breasted girls from Georgia colleges and take them to Syria. And a former seal makes his way to save them. The plot the terrorists have is that they're going to rape the girls on live web cast to break the Americans and the lesser Satans of Europe.
> 
> ...



Well, that makes the idea of "Multiversal communist empire bisects America and Europe, returns superpower status to Russia and sinks Latin America, India, South Korea and Taiwan for shits and giggles sound more convincing.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Oct 5, 2014)

So yeah, anyone have any race ideas? Still stuck on which I should choose, both Gnomes and Minotaurs exist within Philippines mythology, so they're both appealing.

But I want to make sure I cover all my basis before settling on either one. So any suggestions?


----------



## Malicious Friday (Oct 5, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> After listening to several hours of a John Ringo novel I'm prepared to say that any of you mother fuckers could be published successful novelists. Jesus.
> 
> 
> This book's plot is that Arab terrorists kidnap big breasted girls from Georgia colleges and take them to Syria. And a former seal makes his way to save them. The plot the terrorists have is that they're going to rape the girls on live web cast to break the Americans and the lesser Satans of Europe.
> ...



 This reminds me of this book I heard about called _The Vagina Ass of Lucifer Niggerbastard_

Here's the link: Goodreads


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 5, 2014)

~Avant~ said:


> So yeah, anyone have any race ideas? Still stuck on which I should choose, both Gnomes and Minotaurs exist within Philippines mythology, so they're both appealing.
> 
> But I want to make sure I cover all my basis before settling on either one. So any suggestions?



Depends on what you need them to do.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Oct 5, 2014)

What do you mean? That shouldnt matter


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 5, 2014)

It may do. Depending on what you'll use them for, a race may fit better than the other (gryphons beat dragons hoarding gold) and it may help.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Oct 5, 2014)

Well they be one of the 22 sentient races that populate my world. They will be neutral in alignment at the start of the major conflict which will consume the world, but eventually they will join the Rebellion on the "Good" side.

For centuries the Faeries have been the Highest class of people within the world. None of the other races are allowed to touch them, and as a result they exercise their political power within the world to enslave members from the other races, and perform sacrificial rituals like the Ancient Aztecs.

The Elves serve as the Faeries military and thus are allowed special privileges, such as being able to invade the territories of the other races and have them as slaves as well. (They have a Roman Society)

So yeah, my last race choice is more aesthetic than anything else. Since it'll work or what I'm planning either way.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 5, 2014)

Well, the Gnomes having a rivalry with the Elves may make them sound more promising, however, the Minotaurs are recognized as a symbol of strength and virtue in many cultures, so it'd depend on what is preferable at the moment.

If I were you, I'd go for the minotaurs, unless there's already a "knowledge race" in your world. Should it be so, Gnomes.


----------



## Risyth (Oct 5, 2014)

*I'm going to raise this question again since it looks like it's been....ignored.... 

Are you more partial to books with settings described in detail before anything else happens in them or settings that aren't described much if at all, leaving their layout to the reader's imagination?*


----------



## ~Avant~ (Oct 5, 2014)

Well the races in my story aren't characterized by "smart" race or "strong" race or "fast" race or even by evil or good.

Just like how you cant really characterize people in our world like that. But yeah, I was leaning more towards the Minotaurs from the outset. But I wanted to see anyone could provide a possible third option I may not have thought up of.

@Risyth: I prefer the former. Option B just comes off as lazy writing.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 5, 2014)

@Risyth I think I already told you. It'd be the first. There are sporadic things I might leave for later, but most of the description happens once the scene starts.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 5, 2014)

Description at the start of a scene happening all at once, or starting off a book like Tolkien is falling out of fashion for a good reason. Interlace description into the rest of the story, avoid info dumps, don't start scenes talking about the weather or using water or mirrors to describe the main character's appearance. 

I'm pretty sure that Lord Yu said something about some of this earlier too.


----------



## Risyth (Oct 5, 2014)

*I know you told me, Nordstrom--didn't know how to call you out without going from  to . 

You too, Avant? What makes you say it's lazy writing?


I was out of this thread for a while, so I probably missed Lord Yu. I agree, CTK, so I just want to understand the proponents' arguments a little more.*


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 5, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Description at the start of a scene happening all at once, or starting off a book like Tolkien is falling out of fashion for a good reason. Interlace description into the rest of the story, avoid info dumps, don't start scenes talking about the weather or using water or mirrors to describe the main character's appearance.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that Lord Yu said something about some of this earlier too.



They're most definitely NOT info dumps. I tend to avert those like the plague or at least try to be discreet disguising them as an interrogatory or the main character reading up on stuff he finds strange.

Descriptions are something I usually establish only if there are noticeable changes. Otherwise, I only mention stuff out of place and perhaps what to put on. Going on describing what you're wearing feels jarring at best, corny at worst.



Risyth said:


> *I know you told me, Nordstrom--didn't know how to call you out without going from  to .
> 
> You too, Avant? What makes you say it's lazy writing?
> 
> ...





No, don't worry.


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 5, 2014)

~Avant~ said:


> Well the races in my story aren't characterized by "smart" race or "strong" race or "fast" race or even by evil or good.
> 
> Just like how you cant really characterize people in our world like that. But yeah, I was leaning more towards the Minotaurs from the outset. But I wanted to see anyone could provide a possible third option I may not have thought up of.
> 
> @Risyth: I prefer the former. Option B just comes off as lazy writing.



I wouldn't call it lazy writing.  I've seen stories that told more about their worlds through implication rather than explicit description.  I like that technique it feels more immersive to me. Though it's very hard to do because it can alienate some readers, especially if they don't click with the author's writing style.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 6, 2014)

Depends on the POV character.

If someone is a peasant surf visiting a castle for the first time, and they're not oblivious, I expect them to give me some nice details of the area to whatever their descriptive capacity is.  If the person is an archaeologist, and they're visiting ruins, I expect them to give me some nice detailed notes and cross comparisons on these ruins and possible connections or similarities to other styles of building or ruins.  Queen in a castle?  She'll barely care.  Ignorant bum?  Very little.

3rd person or omniscient or what have you, tell me enough to form a rough a rough picture, and fill it in as the scene progresses.

They're in a courtyard.  By a fountain.  John Plotsworth looks up that the fountains, and watches the mermaids dump water from their jars.  It reminds him of how his mother used to pour water into the heavy clay jars when she'd come back from the well, and he and Timmy Posthumous Plotsworth would greet her and help her with the chores while Father Ex-General Plotsworth was away on campaign.  But everything changed since the Fire Nation attacked...  Then he can sit down on the cold pewter bench, and kick a dandelion with his toe for all I care because I've lost interest in this fluffy and not at all clever example.


----------



## Risyth (Oct 6, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> I wouldn't call it lazy writing.  I've seen stories that told more about their worlds through implication rather than explicit description.  I like that technique it feels more immersive to me. Though it's very hard to do because it can alienate some readers, especially if they don't click with the author's writing style.



*Agreed totally.*



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Depends on the POV character.
> 
> If someone is a peasant surf visiting a castle for the first time, and they're not oblivious, I expect them to give me some nice details of the area to whatever their descriptive capacity is.  If the person is an archaeologist, and they're visiting ruins, I expect them to give me some nice detailed notes and cross comparisons on these ruins and possible connections or similarities to other styles of building or ruins.  Queen in a castle?  She'll barely care.  Ignorant bum?  Very little.
> 
> ...



*Also agreed. There's a place for both; it's just that you're less likely to have an all-encompassing description since there's little reason for it compared to letting the scene shape the environment around it. The overuse of those are for classical novels from when people had nothing to do but read.*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 6, 2014)

This fucking John Ringo book is killing me, I think.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 6, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> This fucking John Ringo book is killing me, I think.



You are reading that bullshit?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 6, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> You are reading that bullshit?



I'm reading it to blog about it, I didn't think it would be this long. I'm just doing the first third (because it's divided into three books).


----------



## Malicious Friday (Oct 7, 2014)

How do you all go around with the power-scale of your characters? What I mean is how do you control how much power each character has?


----------



## ~Avant~ (Oct 8, 2014)

Years of posting in the OBD have taught me that.

For the Mortals races in my story (which covers everything from Psychics, to Elves, to Hald-Demons), I've created a general guideline type tier system, with 5 different levels.

So tier five characters range from, just above human to being able to dodge bullets and break large walls. Tier four characters can destroy buildings, tier three characters can destroy city blocks, tier 2 characters can destroy towns and cities, and tier 1 characters can destroy mountains and islands.

Meanwhile the Eternal races in my story (ranging from Reapers, Angels, Devas, and Demons) have a 3 tier system. 

Bottom tiers can destroy city blocks to entire towns, mid-tiers can destroy islands to entire countries, and top tiers can destroy continent to planetoids like the moon for example.

No notice, I've pretty much only accounted for general speed and destructive capacity, their are other abilities such as hax, and general character ingenuity which can blur these lines, so their exist definite gray areas.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 8, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> How do you all go around with the power-scale of your characters? What I mean is how do you control how much power each character has?



With a system I designed... And which prompted remarks about me making a game rather than a story.



~Avant~ said:


> Years of posting in the OBD have taught me that.
> 
> For the Mortals races in my story (which covers everything from Psychics, to Elves, to Hald-Demons), I've created a general guideline type tier system, with 5 different levels.
> 
> ...



I didn't listen to them. Many of the OBD stuff is contradictory, and not in a good way.

I created a "floating tier system" in which different species have different tiers, but there are "advanced tiers" of which there are three.

The power of my characters isn't really destructive, as it is aimed towards collateral damage minimization, so they won't destroy much. However, their non destructive abilities are rather impressive.


Tier one is for beings able to move a simple mountain or create a lake. They are so sturdy that they can literally swim in lava or sulfuric acid without any wound or damage even to their eyes or hair.
Tier two encompasses those who can change weather patterns over a city, regenerate forests or vast expanses of land and are able to survive temperatures over 32,000,000 C. The main lead's love interests belong to this tier.
Tier three is for those who can change global weather patterns, create cyclones, trigger earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, and do such things as force winter in tropical areas, replenish the world's ozone layer and petroleum reserves, terraform a gas giant of all things and make sounds that can travel in space. The main character, his two best male friends and his adopted son's best friends (two of them) all belong to this tier.


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 8, 2014)

I banned myself from the OBD for the precise reason of a escaping tier-whoring.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Oct 8, 2014)

Well it taught me a lot about how speed works as well as destructiveness. And because the OBD analyzes everything, it gives you time to sort of embrace the scene if you will.

You appreciate the magnitude of certain abilities and even more, how they are displayed. As an author its allowed me to be able to better imagine how certain scenes in my own story would play out, and how to present it more dynamically.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 8, 2014)

~Avant~ said:


> Well it taught me a lot about how speed works as well as destructiveness. And because the OBD analyzes everything, it gives you time to sort of embrace the scene if you will.
> 
> You appreciate the magnitude of certain abilities and even more, how they are displayed. As an author its allowed me to be able to better imagine how certain scenes in my own story would play out, and how to present it more dynamically.



Stuff in the OBD gets uneven treatment because of what they hate and like and that's my problem with them. After all, how is it that you'd say anime calculations are not valid for some animes, but are for others?

Also, not sure if they updated it, but Meyer's word is that her vampires can take nukes head on, with the only undesirable side effect being heat (so they can take the explosive strength, but likely not the heat).

That aside, my main problem is that we don't go full homewreckers in my story. The most obvious stuff is how one of the heroines creates a lake surrounded by mountains in a valley near Moscow. However, the most powerful attack completely vaporizes the main antagonist, but leaves her blood behind.


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 10, 2014)

I have a character capable of wrecking galaxies.  But they're pretty much a special case, though I have some really destructive magic in my story.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Oct 10, 2014)

I have a couple characters able to take out whole universes. And one of them's a god. The other one absorbed the god and became OP. 

I didn't know how to kill him off for a _very_ long time!  

So I made him break through another plane of existence and try to fight God himself. And he loses, having his powers taken away.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 10, 2014)

In theory, Valkyries can choose between being Valkyries or becoming Idisen. The later enjoy staggering powers and the ability to destroy Superclusters, but they usually die in a few days and the choice is usually a test to see if a Valkyrie is really worthy of wielding that power. Idisen themselves are pretty much useless in the presence of a Valkyrie or in a planet where there's at least one Valkyrie. Also, an special ops Valkyrie Pilgrimage deals with them to make sure nothing goes awry, but Idisen would often destroy cities in the past. At least no Idisen ever came close to destroying a planet, let alone a Supercluster. However, the most destructive one self-destructed and wiped a country the size of the United States off the map.

Basically, they're like insane Valkyries with highly destructive power that drives them drunk on it.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Oct 12, 2014)

I had to change one of my character's appearances so she could look less human. 

Orginally, she looks just like the Lady of Justice. Now, she still looks like her but with four arms and three blindfolded eyes. I also gave her a tan and dark red Roman robes instead of Greek ones.

She kinda looks like this: 



And this:



At the same times, but with long black hair.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 13, 2014)

I've never really had a problem balancing power levels.  If I ever thought something might be broken, I just nerfed it, made it one time use, situation, or didn't include it.  I always have a few OP people running around, but they're treated like natural disasters or dead ends for people to avoid.  Namely heroes.  Though sometimes it's fun to have a nuetral party both heroes and villains are plotting around the existence of.  It adds tension.  Even then they're usually not invincible or nuke throwing.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 13, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> I had to change one of my character's appearances so she could look less human.
> 
> Orginally, she looks just like the Lady of Justice. Now, she still looks like her but with four arms and three blindfolded eyes. I also gave her a tan and dark red Roman robes instead of Greek ones.
> 
> ...



I'm not keen on using non-humanoids or heavily jarring humanoids. Hindu culture was one of the big No-No's when I was building my world. Basically, in a world where almost all mythology comes from other worlds or the woods, these guys were the only ones that were actually created by people, hence why they look so otherwordly and uncanny.



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I've never really had a problem balancing power levels.  If I ever thought something might be broken, I just nerfed it, made it one time use, situation, or didn't include it.  I always have a few OP people running around, but they're treated like natural disasters or dead ends for people to avoid.  Namely heroes.  Though sometimes it's fun to have a nuetral party both heroes and villains are plotting around the existence of.  It adds tension.  Even then they're usually not invincible or nuke throwing.



Nuke attacks are something I usually reserve for important moments. Also, the reason I called my system "floating" was because power tiers aren't fixed and can be remade or characters can go beyond their usual tier.


----------



## Eternity (Oct 13, 2014)

I have yet to really get into the power scaling of my world. Magic in my world is like air or gravity. It's a force of nature. And as with any force of nature, it can be unpredictable, but I have a general rule of not having any super, over the top characters in my universe. One of my characters created a self sustaining orb of gravity of sorts, that very slowly becomes more powerful, but just enough to add  small layers the the capital city outer rim. (A floating city).

Otherwise, it depends on the magic around people, and their inate magical abilities and capabilties. For example, a human in my world (called the kaldoni), has less of an inate magical capability than an osuri for example (ask me if you want to know what that is). Things such as gene anomalies, magic density and state of mind also has an effect on magical powers. 

So as a rule of thumb: Magic above house crushing is rare. Magic that is long term/complex/city destroying is practially unheard of. Continent control/distruction, if it has ever happened, is thought of as myth. Planetary destruction is impossible.

Keep in mind that this individually. Magic becomes stronger in clusters. So if a very large amount of magic users gather in about the same place, they can do big things.


----------



## Risyth (Oct 17, 2014)

*I've just found my way last night.

It's funny how simple the answer was...but now I think I have a true reason to be condescending with my writing.*


----------



## IdioticGamer (Oct 18, 2014)

This might come off as random since I only posted a couple of times but I have a question guys.

Has there ever been a written work depicting a villain/monster that was supposed to bring judgement and destroy the world awakening into a world that's already well mostly destroyed by humanity? In the process of that the villain deciding that a world wouldn't be worth destroying and instead roams around either giving us a showcase of how humanity is faring.

Well with that concept I think it could go around some thoughts about how the real world can potentially destroy itself. Or explore the concept of what would happen to the world after a world class level disaster either caused by nature, things from space or just humanity Or how humanity will soon die or rebuild. Just a concept that popped into the mind. Kinda what influenced that only flash fiction thing I written here


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 18, 2014)

IdioticGamer said:


> This might come off as random since I only posted a couple of times but I have a question guys.
> 
> Has there ever been a written work depicting a villain/monster that was supposed to bring judgement and destroy the world awakening into a world that's already well mostly destroyed by humanity? In the process of that the villain deciding that a world wouldn't be worth destroying and instead roams around either giving us a showcase of how humanity is faring.
> 
> Well with that concept I think it could go around some thoughts about how the real world can potentially destroy itself. Or explore the concept of what would happen to the world after a world class level disaster either caused by nature, things from space or just humanity Or how humanity will soon die or rebuild. Just a concept that popped into the mind. Kinda what influenced that only flash fiction thing I written here



Not a villain, or even an anti hero... But there's this hooded girl of unknown background and power who appears to some characters through the story and seems to have something against the main character and encourages everyone surrounding him to alienate and isolate him. She also relays information of important and or interesting stuff to all characters but him, which also leaves him out of the circle, but some of his friends fill him in almost as soon as they possibly can, specially for really important stuff.


----------



## IdioticGamer (Oct 19, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> Not a villain, or even an anti hero... But there's this hooded girl of unknown background and power who appears to some characters through the story and seems to have something against the main character and encourages everyone surrounding him to alienate and isolate him. She also relays information of important and or interesting stuff to all characters but him, which also leaves him out of the circle, but some of his friends fill him in almost as soon as they possibly can, specially for really important stuff.



Hmm, intriguing. Not the same concept but slightly similar. By any chance do you know the title and the setting?


----------



## Muah (Oct 19, 2014)

Writing a book I got most of it planned out but I have trouble settling on an initial conflict.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Oct 19, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> Not a villain, or even an anti hero... But there's this hooded girl of unknown background and power who appears to some characters through the story and seems to have something against the main character and encourages everyone surrounding him to alienate and isolate him. She also relays information of important and or interesting stuff to all characters but him, which also leaves him out of the circle, but some of his friends fill him in almost as soon as they possibly can, specially for really important stuff.



I would love to read something like that. 



Muah said:


> Writing a book I got most of it planned out but I have trouble settling on an initial conflict.



Oooh, do tell!


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 19, 2014)

Now there's a guide to help us write all of those light novels we've definitely been planning.


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 19, 2014)

I dunno, I kind of have quite a bit of contempt for light novels.


----------



## Muah (Oct 19, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> I would love to read something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Oooh, do tell!



Adventure, action, Psychologically, Scifi, fantasy,drama.

It's about a futuristic Detroit that has found economical and industiral independence from the rest of America. So much so that they have a secret space program that sent a group of young pioneers to mars to explore the possibility of permanent settlement. All is going well until communication and supplies from earth is compromised.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 19, 2014)

IdioticGamer said:


> Hmm, intriguing. Not the same concept but slightly similar. By any chance do you know the title and the setting?



It's my own story... Setting: Moscow, Russian Federation 2017. Title: Prelude.



Malicious Friday said:


> I would love to read something like that.
> 
> Oooh, do tell!



Wait a few months and it'll be ready.



Muah said:


> Writing a book I got most of it planned out but I have trouble settling on an initial conflict.



Conflict? 



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Now there's a guide to help us write all of those light novels we've definitely been planning.





			
				Emmett Cullen said:
			
		

> Bo-ring!



Seriously, most of the stuff there was stuff I attempted to do at some point and it sent my story to ER! I had been lucky enough to save a draft of how it was before that running it through that meat grinder. Are you guys aware that a light novel is simply a Novella?

I'd know because I have a novella planned, but I'm not going for that just yet. The story and setting as it stands are too extensive for a light novel. As it stands, I might as well be writing Homeric epics or a new type of mythology given how extensive the setting and mythos are. A light novel, not even a long series like Toaru or a huge one like Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon wouldn't be enough. A full blown novel is needed for the story to flourish.



Muah said:


> Adventure, action, Psychologically, Scifi, fantasy,drama.
> 
> It's about a futuristic Detroit that has found economical and industiral independence from the rest of America. So much so that they have a secret space program that sent a group of young pioneers to mars to explore the possibility of permanent settlement. All is going well until communication and supplies from earth is compromised.



Interesting


----------



## Malicious Friday (Oct 19, 2014)

Muah said:


> Adventure, action, Psychologically, Scifi, fantasy,drama.
> 
> It's about a futuristic Detroit that has found economical and industiral independence from the rest of America. So much so that they have a secret space program that sent a group of young pioneers to mars to explore the possibility of permanent settlement. All is going well until communication and supplies from earth is compromised.



That's interesting


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 31, 2014)

This thread died but my creativity is alive!


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 31, 2014)

Usually, I'd attempt to revitalize the place after you posted, but even with Halloween and FFXV's interview I'm in a rather sour mod.

I won't stop until a certain member gets a restraining order.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 31, 2014)

Aren't light novels like illustrated novellas?


----------



## Patchouli (Oct 31, 2014)

Been getting a constant stream of ideas the last few days.

I don't know what God of Creativity I've pleased, but may his/her reign be eternal. (Probably a mix of being in an energetic mood, combined with caffeine.)

Now to actually turn one of these ideas into a novel. I should read up on exactly how to write.


----------



## Patchouli (Oct 31, 2014)

[YOUTUBE]DBgzQ8Jewpw[/YOUTUBE]

This is more or less me right now.


----------



## CoolGuyGreg (Oct 31, 2014)

lmao, *stabs with pencil in a downward motion* "take some of these, and some of these."

learning from the best I see..


----------



## Malicious Friday (Oct 31, 2014)

Patchouli said:


> [YOUTUBE]DBgzQ8Jewpw[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> This is more or less me right now.



Same. I'm on chapter 2 and all I've got is "Ronald Lee is".


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 31, 2014)

I wrote a whole chapter this week now I'm working on a chapter I started awhile back.  I had a sort of hangup where I had to do some research on language.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Oct 31, 2014)

I just have no inspiration to write right now...


----------



## Muah (Oct 31, 2014)

Lol I'm still on the first page. Bout to do some serious writing, brb.


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 31, 2014)

I have loads of inspiration but a certain knowledge gap. I'm probably gonna have to learn some more Japanese as well as relearn Spanish before I can put a cap on this tale.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 31, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Aren't light novels like illustrated novellas?



Short answer? Yes. Long answer? Big yes!



Patchouli said:


> Been getting a constant stream of ideas the last few days.
> 
> I don't know what God of Creativity I've pleased, but may his/her reign be eternal. (Probably a mix of being in an energetic mood, combined with caffeine.)
> 
> Now to actually turn one of these ideas into a novel. I should read up on exactly how to write.



I can't write because God and the devil tag teamed me to make my week miserable and I can't write in this state.

Patch, if you can, as a mod, ask someone to stop doing something, I implore you hear me out and lift an stop sign for a certain bastard!



Malicious Friday said:


> I just have no inspiration to write right now...



Join the club. It may return at midnight if I'm lucky...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 31, 2014)

I've never really read one of them before. I don't actually read much Japanese anything. I prefer American comics to Manga and I haven't really been that into anime ever.


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 31, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I've never really read one of them before. I don't actually read much Japanese anything. I prefer American comics to Manga and I haven't really been that into anime ever.



I myself think comics are of a higher quality, but I read them in much lower numbers and usually buy the actual, printed thing rather than reading online. I also read light novels, but not that often... And as someone who's read novellas and light novels, I can safely say they're the same content wise, but graphic novels are even closer for... You know... Obvious reasons...


----------



## Risyth (Oct 31, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> I just have no inspiration to write right now...



*Write anyway.*


----------



## Malicious Friday (Nov 1, 2014)

I found it ironic how I found a brief inspiration to write while playing gospel music at band practice yesterday, even though I'm an atheist.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 1, 2014)

*Maybe it's not as ironic as you think.*


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 1, 2014)

I try to find inspiration in anything regardless of how trivial.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 10, 2014)

This thread has been dormant for a while. I guess it's crunch time in school and all.


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 10, 2014)

I graduated months ago. I'm stuck on my ass in front of the computer. But I guess it's just me. Nothin to do but work on this novel. Not that I will.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 10, 2014)

I was looking to take down some fan fiction, but my shit is really popular. And it's kind of still funny. But I want to rewrite some of it. This is an old one I did where Hermione and Ginny fall in love. I had this running gag where Snape was everywhere waiting to deduct points. 



> Trying not to think of the smell, Hermione threw her arm over Ginny. "I just…if that perverted jerk Malfoy shows his face around me without anyone else, I'm going to hex him in to next week…he'll wish he were never born…"
> 
> The sound of a toilet flushing cut Hermione off. She and Ginny froze staring at one of the stalls across the room, the door was closed and for the first time they noticed a pair of legs with dark pants bunched up around the feet.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 10, 2014)

I've had a couple of ideas for fanfiction as of late. Raidou Kuzunoha fanfic that would take characters and situations from one of my novels and adapt it to a Raidou Kuzunoha case. I doubt I'll ever write it because it would require much research into Japan's Taisho era. Also, I don't write fan fiction.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 10, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> I've had a couple of ideas for fanfiction as of late. Raidou Kuzunoha fanfic that would take characters and situations from one of my novels and adapt it to a Raidou Kuzunoha case. I doubt I'll ever write it because it would require much research into Japan's Taisho era. Also, I don't write fan fiction.



Fan fiction can be fun, but I tend to shy away from the type that would require me to do too much research and the like. The thing I want to do is try and redo one chapter a month. My fan fiction account gets about three hundred views a month without me touching it, so if I put up a re-written story at a chapter per month pace that should be fine for people to read and it gives me ample time to go through and clean the chapter up thoroughly. I don't like the idea of deleting the stuff I have up there, but I also would like it to be putting a better foot forward than it is right now.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 10, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> I've had a couple of ideas for fanfiction as of late. Raidou Kuzunoha fanfic that would take characters and situations from one of my novels and adapt it to a Raidou Kuzunoha case. I doubt I'll ever write it because it would require much research into Japan's Taisho era. Also, I don't write fan fiction.



*You're complaining about ONE jidai. 


:ho*


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 10, 2014)

If I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it right.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Nov 10, 2014)

I've had ideas for fan fiction that dealt with Steven Universe, Gravity Falls and some of Adventure Time and Soul Eater, but I've never gotten around to it.


----------



## Nordstrom (Nov 13, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> I've had ideas for fan fiction that dealt with Steven Universe, Gravity Falls and some of Adventure Time and Soul Eater, but I've never gotten around to it.



I have a Nasuverse/Lyrical Nanoha/Conception/FFVIII/HighSchoolDxD/Campione/Bleach/SoulCalibur crossover that has been in hiatus without publishing since this time last year.

Beat that.

Also, it's RIDICULOUS that I have to get on a writing strike in the middle of NANOWRIMO because a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) Admin got uppity.

Fucking ironic. I hope America gets nuked.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 13, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> I have a Nasuverse/Lyrical Nanoha/Conception/FFVIII/HighSchoolDxD/Campione/Bleach/SoulCalibur crossover that has been in hiatus without publishing since this time last year.
> 
> Beat that.
> 
> ...



This all seems practical.


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 13, 2014)

Sometimes, I wonder why my planning always involves envisioning fights that will never happen.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 13, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> I have a Nasuverse/Lyrical Nanoha/Conception/FFVIII/HighSchoolDxD/Campione/Bleach/SoulCalibur crossover that has been in hiatus without publishing since this time last year.
> 
> Beat that.
> 
> ...



*What are you talking about?
*


----------



## Nordstrom (Nov 13, 2014)

TL;DR Can't write. Someone screwed me up because corruption, so uninspired.


----------



## kire (Nov 14, 2014)

I'm going force myself to write this month!  If life could only take its foot off my ass, I'd get a lot more done!


----------



## Nordstrom (Nov 14, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> This all seems practical.



Like how?



kire said:


> I'm going force myself to write this month!  If life could only take its foot off my ass, I'd get a lot more done!



Someone understands!


----------



## Malicious Friday (Nov 14, 2014)

Personal update: I've been writing again! And I like how the rewrite is turning out. 

Also, I've changed the name of my series. It changed from The Four Worlds: A Beautiful World; A New World Order; See No Evil; Speak no Evil; Hear no Evil; Do no Evil; to (the first book has stayed the same): The Four Worlds: A New World; A Different World; A Similar World; A Past World; A Different World, and I like the development I've been going through with them. 



Nordstrom said:


> I have a Nasuverse/Lyrical Nanoha/Conception/FFVIII/HighSchoolDxD/Campione/Bleach/SoulCalibur crossover that has been in hiatus without publishing since this time last year.
> 
> Beat that.
> 
> ...



I have no idea what Nanowrimo is...

But get this, in the Gravity Falls FF, everyone in the world gets consumed by the darkness and Dipper has to go fight Bill all alone. There's a scene where Dipper talks to Mabel, Grunkle Stan, Wendy and Soos for a sad goodbye.

In the Soul Eater FF, the main witch antagonist has the Witch society invade Shibusen and says "This is going to be a slaughter!" A lot of the students die including a couple of the main characters I made. This takes place after the manga. 

In the Adventure Time one, I have this thing where the Lich destroys the Candy Kingdom by taking control of Flame Princess. 

In the Steven Universe one, the Gems are almost killed by other Gems that came from their home world. Garnet is the last to survive and escape by taking Steven along with her and she has to get them back to Beach City before she retreats to her Gem.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 15, 2014)

I have spent my free time at work (see: all my time) tearing my story apart and putting it back together. Added a new character, made the characters look and act slightly different and made the main character a worse person. 

So far I think this is what I needed.


----------



## Nordstrom (Nov 15, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> I have no idea what Nanowrimo is...
> 
> But get this, in the Gravity Falls FF, everyone in the world gets consumed by the darkness and Dipper has to go fight Bill all alone. There's a scene where Dipper talks to Mabel, Grunkle Stan, Wendy and Soos for a sad goodbye.



National Novel Writing Month (NaNoWriMo).

Also, I see crossover potential in Gravity Falls, but nobody has fully exploited it yet.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I have spent my free time at work (see: all my time) tearing my story apart and putting it back together. Added a new character, made the characters look and act slightly different and made the main character a worse person.
> 
> So far I think this is what I needed.



I did that a few days ago, but I don't really undo everything. I usually streamline things. For starters, I added another love interest earlier (first book) and shortened the gauntlet battles of the climax in favor of a more monumental siege of Moscow. Added some dream sequences, reimagined Gorky Park (even flashier than it was) and also altered the character designs to be sharper and more action-y. I also retooled the main heroine to be even stronger and have a milder character.

Wasn't needed, but I wanted the story to be more fluid. Also, threw some Belinda references all over the main heroine...


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 17, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> Sometimes, I wonder why my planning always involves envisioning fights that will never happen.



This would be a cool fight. Now in what circumstances would that actually happen?

...  

... 

............................................

The creative process in ellipses.  



Lord Yu said:


> This thread died but my creativity is alive!



My idea factory has been dead, along with all my motivation.  It's nice to not be thinking about plotlines and stories ideas and scenes tweaks all the time when I should be focusing on other things, but my head feel so empty.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 17, 2014)

*Try reverse-engineering the scenario then. Write the fight first and/or the scene leading right up to it, and then you'll be forced to think of the circumstances that lead up to it. As you write more of the fight, you might come up with some ideas there...either way, you'll have put up a roadblock by writing the fight ahead, one you can't pass until you connect the plot with the fight, at least mentally. You might just need to get a fix writing any bit of a fight, but chronology prevents it: by writing some of the fight, you may be satisfied with returning to the chronology anyway.*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 18, 2014)

I really like this idea in terms of world building:


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 19, 2014)

This new opening is killing me dead. I can't figure out how to tie the tone to the tone of the overall work.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 19, 2014)

*^^Forests don't work that way...good for exaggerated descriptions, though. 


Openings are terrible for me too...I think I'm going to redo mine a fourth time.*


----------



## Malicious Friday (Nov 19, 2014)

Openings and endings are always hard for some reason


----------



## Nordstrom (Nov 20, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *^^Forests don't work that way...good for exaggerated descriptions, though.
> 
> 
> Openings are terrible for me too...I think I'm going to redo mine a fourth time.*



Usually, I try to keep openings slightly abstract, rather than go "near the end of chapter x" to the beginning of the story. It gives the impression you're telling people a tale that may have happened long ago, whereas most of my stories happen in real time.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Nov 20, 2014)

^What do you mean by your stories happen in real time?


----------



## Risyth (Nov 20, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> Usually, I try to keep openings slightly abstract, rather than go "near the end of chapter x" to the beginning of the story. It gives the impression you're telling people a tale that may have happened long ago, whereas most of my stories happen in real time.


*Isn't that the best way to write a story? If I understand right, I think that's what I'm doing too. The fairy tale convention is pretty outdated in works of fiction. 


^As opposed to the narrator recounting what happens in the story; like telling an actual story, I think.*


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 20, 2014)

There is no best way to write a story.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 21, 2014)

*Don't kid yourself. There's always a best way.*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 21, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *Don't kid yourself. There's always a best way.*



There's no best way to eat a Reese's.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 21, 2014)

*I'm allergic to peanut butter. *


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 21, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *Don't kid yourself. There's always a best way.*



Dude, this is a creative and therefore subjective thing we're doing here. Different approaches resonate with different audiences. You're completely missing the idea of art.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 21, 2014)

*Correlation does not equal causation. 

Preference has nothing to do with general and objective effectiveness.


--And weren't you one of the people who harped on my not liking to read others to improve my writing? If so, you're being hypocritical.*


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 21, 2014)

Not in the least. It's good to read and learn new techniques so you can hone your style and find a voice that works for you. Anyway, you're completely using that logic rule wrong. 

Preference has nearly everything to do with it.  No matter how good you get, no matter how flowing or seemingly appropriate your language choice seems there will always be a group who will find it completely and utterly against their sensibilities.  People will react to one thing in a million different ways.  It's basic psychology.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Nov 21, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *Don't kid yourself. There's always a best way.*



There really isn't a best way to write. What compares J.K. Rowling's style to Lemony Snicket's? Who's way of telling a story is better? Neither of their styles is better because both have their own way of conveying the message of their stories to the readers. It's a very subjective topic in saying what is best. It's like saying Michelangelo's paintings were far superior to Picasso's style of painting because their is more detail in the work even though Picasso co-founded the style of art known as cubism.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 21, 2014)




----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 21, 2014)

Oh no you don't James Franco! This thread is not for the eating of yogurt!


----------



## Risyth (Nov 22, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> There really isn't a best way to write. What compares J.K. Rowling's style to Lemony Snicket's? Who's way of telling a story is better? Neither of their styles is better because both have their own way of conveying the message of their stories to the readers. It's a very subjective topic in saying what is best. It's like saying Michelangelo's paintings were far superior to Picasso's style of painting because their is more detail in the work even though Picasso co-founded the style of art known as cubism.



*You're confused. There are fundamentals and then there's preference. Saying there's no best way to write is like saying classes that teach technique (like creative writing courses) are useless because everyone has their own style, no matter how ****** it reads to the average person.

And again, you were one of the people that complained about my having my own style and not needing help. That makes you a hypocrite. *



Lord Yu said:


> Not in the least. It's good to read and learn new techniques so you can hone your style and find a voice that works for you. Anyway, you're completely using that logic rule wrong.
> 
> Preference has nearly everything to do with it.  No matter how good you get, no matter how flowing or seemingly appropriate your language choice seems there will always be a group who will find it completely and utterly against their sensibilities.  People will react to one thing in a million different ways.  It's basic psychology.



*Well then, I've found my voice, and there's no best way to write because I have my own style, so there's no "honing" needed. I'm just using your rationale. 

No, I'm not. Tell me how I am so I can debunk you.

That's most likely their aversion to what you're writing about, not how you're writing it. What you're saying is that if your teacher red marks your short story you wrote in class, you're not obligated to look at the corrections and improve your technique from them because it just might not be that person's thing. You're saying there aren't rudimentary elements to writing, like bad grammar or ending every single sentence of dialogue with "he responded" or "she said" that can improved upon. You're saying that since every person (hopefully) has an idiolect, nothing they write can be questioned on any level. Because they're unique. 

It's not basic psychology. Please stop.*


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 22, 2014)

Someone is getting defensive and projecting.  You're completely missing what I'm talking about. I am talking about conveying themes, emotions, character mot just grammar and vocabulary.  You're just being reductionist which anathema to rationale debate.  Everyone has their way of expressing themselves. Humans are social creatures we learn and grow through observing others. We become better from shared experience.

I never said anything was immune to criticism. I didn't even mention criticism.  Subjectivity has NEVER meant immune to criticism. 

Bah, why am I even trying to argue with you? How good is your English? You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word hypocrisy either.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 22, 2014)

*No, I was using your logic against you. Wasn't it obvious? 


For one, dialogue tags don't have anything to do with grammar. Merely prose, and intrinsically so. And you can't pick and choose regardless: they're all a part of a narrative. 



"Everyone has their way of expressing themselves."

Wow. Again, please stop. 

I can hide everything from the reader and introduce characters at whim without giving any info as to who they are, then kill them all off and start a vaguely related story--but since I had my own way of expressing myself, it's okay? 

You know why you're supposed to read others, right? So you know the techniques that have been shown to WORK BEST. You criticize me for not wanting to read others, yet at this point it's evident you didn't even know why. That's a deferential attitude to what others, probably your teachers or people here, have told you.



"I never said anything was immune to criticism. I didn't even mention criticism. Subjectivity has NEVER meant immune to criticism." 

If subjectivity isn't immune to criticism, I can criticize your writing style. Again, stop. The one being defensive is you. I know what you're implying, and by saying: 


"Preference has nearly everything to do with it. No matter how good you get, no matter how flowing or seemingly appropriate your language choice seems there will always be a group who will find it completely and utterly against their sensibilities. People will react to one thing in a million different ways," 


you're implying there's no need to regard criticism because it's just a person having another preference than you. But if it's because your writing is fundamentally flawed or your narrative techniques aren't the best option, that's exactly what I've been saying.






...no. It's not as if my use of that word is the premise of the argument anyway.
*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 22, 2014)

Wow, you're being frustrating and I'm not even in this argument. 

Subjective doesn't mean immune to critique. That's why there are reviews for all kinds of subjective things. I could think Shaq Fu is the greatest game created or that Michael Bay is the greatest director ever, if those are my own opinions you can give critical reasons for why they aren't correct, but it doesn't mean that I have to change to your opinion. 

And considering that writing is changing every year and new things are coming out and the market is evolving this idea that "you got all you need and you're just going to go your own way" is stupid. You're getting defensive over it because it doesn't make sense and everyone else here knows it. I don't even then Yu and MF argued with you before about it, it was me, but you assume that everyone was against you because you made so little sense. 

Of course we all read widely because things might surprise you or inspire you or you might see something really badly done and learn how to work around it or do it better. This idea you're too good for reading is pompous, arrogant and it doesn't impress anyone.


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 22, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *No, I was using your logic against you. Wasn't it obvious?
> *



No, because you fail to understand my logic on the most basic level. Hell, you seem to have a poor understanding of rhetorical logic in general. Shit like this is why you need to read more.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 22, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> No, because you fail to understand my logic on the most basic level. Hell, you seem to have a poor understanding of rhetorical logic in general. Shit like this is why you need to read more.



*That's all you had to say. *


----------



## Risyth (Nov 22, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Wow, you're being frustrating and I'm not even in this argument.


*Because you don't agree with me, I know. You're frustrating because you only speak to me when you're arguing with my views, kind of like Seto Kaiba.
*
Now get on topic.



> Subjective doesn't mean immune to critique. That's why there are reviews for all kinds of subjective things. I could think Shaq Fu is the greatest game created or that Michael Bay is the greatest director ever, if those are my own opinions you can give critical reasons for why they aren't correct, but it doesn't mean that I have to change to your opinion.


*Thanks for arguing my point. Care to some more? 
*


> And considering that writing is changing every year and new things are coming out and the market is evolving this idea that "you got all you need and you're just going to go your own way" is stupid.


*If writing's changing every year, it's not like my prose can't as well. Unlike you, I don't picture authors as faraway, infallible, trend-setting deities we have to blindly emulate to succeed in writing. Everyone gets their style from some source, but unless they're blatantly copying, it's all going to come down to them in the end.

Writing's not changing on large scale either. Like language, the evolution is subtle. Less so, but it's still not as frequent as you suggest. Don't worry about me; I'm sure I'll be able to understand someone's newly released book even though I haven't read a novel in a year.*



> You're getting defensive over it because it doesn't make sense and everyone else here knows it. I don't even then Yu and MF argued with you before about it, it was me, but you assume that everyone was against you because you made so little sense.


*MF did. I asked whether or not Yu did. In an aside. If he did, he was contradicting himself. You guys can try to make up whatever you want about......how I feel...? 


...yeah.


...and that's why your arguments will always be nonsense.*



> Of course we all read widely because things might surprise you or inspire you or you might see something really badly done and learn how to work around it or do it better. This idea you're too good for reading is pompous, arrogant and it doesn't impress anyone.


*Who said I'm trying to impress anyone? Hypocrisy again: you're the one being defensive, and on no other basis other than my having a dissenting view. I'm just saying, if no style's particularly better than another, there's nothing other than tropes and enjoyment to take from reading someone else. 

Which isn't true, since most serious writers read others to see how they can incorporate those others' techniques into their own prose (which includes the "badly done" part). That's also something you argued with me about...neither of us denied it, but you said it was critical and I said otherwise. 

But you can backtrack it if you want. I don't care about being "surprised" or "inspired," and that's a seriously lame argument for trying to get me to read another when I have my own, personal source for both of those (and "being surprised" doesn't have anything to do with improving my prose). If that's really what your argument came down to, I can't believe I ever wasted my time arguing with you back then in the first place.*


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 22, 2014)

Sometimes I read to avoid the .


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 22, 2014)

> There's always a best way.
> If writing's changing every year, it's not like my prose can't as well.



Dunno why you'd want to change off the best way.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 22, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *Because you don't agree with me, I know. You're frustrating because you only speak to me when you're arguing with my views, kind of like Seto Kaiba.
> *
> Now get on topic.
> 
> ...


Actually you have the dissenting opinion, we're all in agreement here except for you. 

And it really seems like you don't know what hypocrisy means. Maybe you should read more to learn what words mean because you seem to just be throwing that word out there at anyone who challenges you. 

I only talk to you when arguing with you? I haven't even been around the forums as much and I have barely talked to anyone outside of two threads. You're just lashing out and it's funny that you think we're defensive when you're calling everyone hypocrites and claiming that we don't understand your deep artistic ways.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 22, 2014)

Anyway, this has inspired me to ask you all a question that's probably been asked before but.

Who do you think has been the most influential on your writing style?  Be it an author, a teacher, a friend, a book, ect.  However you take it.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 22, 2014)

*I haven't found my best way yet. For myself or in general. There are things that I'm still discovering I can do better in my style, and there are also tried conventions that are just better when trying to do certain things.*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 22, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Anyway, this has inspired me to ask you all a question that's probably been asked before but.
> 
> Who do you think has been the most influential on your writing style?  Be it an author, a teacher, a friend, a book, ect.  However you take it.



Most influential? I can't think of just one. 

If I had to name a few it would have to be Neil Gaiman, Dan Wells, Gillian Flynn, and Chuck Palahniuk.

Special mention for Curtis Sittenfeld because she kind of influenced my willingness to write in first person and got me to be comfortable with it.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 22, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Actually you have the dissenting opinion, we're all in agreement here except for you.


*I hope you realize that's exactly what I said. 


Again.


"...you're the one being defensive, and on no other basis other than *my _*having a dissenting view."*_*


For the second time, I'm calling you a hypocrite as you called me defensive, yet you're also calling my ideas "pompous, arrogant, and unimpressive" even though I just said in a matter-of-fact tone that those are my views and nothing more. I never looked down on or even compared them to yours or anyone else's--well, not until you and Yu started these debates, of course. 

So, mhm: I know I have the dissenting opinion. Because I said so. But thanks for arguing my point again. Care to some more?*






> And it really seems like you don't know what hypocrisy means. Maybe you should read more to learn what words mean because you seem to just be throwing that word out there at anyone who challenges you.
> 
> I only talk to you when arguing with you? I haven't even been around the forums as much and I have barely talked to anyone outside of two threads. You're just lashing out and it's funny that you think we're defensive when you're calling everyone hypocrites and claiming that we don't understand your deep artistic ways.



*"You used that logic rule wrong." 

"How?"

...

*silence* 


---


"You're using the word hypocrisy wrong."

"How?"


...do you want to continue this pattern? Because after my reading this last paragraph, you obviously can't even figure out why I called you two hypocrites, although I explained my reasons in the exact same sentences, twice now. For Yu, I told him why the very sentence before.


I was mocking you, genius. I'm saying that if I were to whine and start off off-topic like you are, I'd be equally frustrating--moreover, I wouldn't even contributing to the discussion. 

You know...like you weren't when you started. "Oh, Risyth...you're frustrating me and I'm not even debating." 

Heh: I even changed dials and told you to get on with it in the very next line. You guys really seem to struggle with context, huh?


You don't, but that's not the point. I think you're just whining again because I've never bragged. I don't like dealing with cry babies in what's supposed to be mature debates.*


----------



## Risyth (Nov 22, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Anyway, this has inspired me to ask you all a question that's probably been asked before but.
> 
> Who do you think has been the most influential on your writing style?  Be it an author, a teacher, a friend, a book, ect.  However you take it.



*Besides myself? There's a professor I've met these past few months with who's really helped me deal with some uncertainties I've had.
*



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Sometimes I read to avoid the .



*Just read your writing objectively. 

Or, that's what I'd do. Not as objectively as possible; objectively. For me, perfection's nearly impossible, so there's no need to put myself up against anyone or anything else but by my own nearly-impossible standards.*


----------



## Sanity Check (Nov 22, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Who do you think has been the most influential on your writing style?  Be it an author, a teacher, a friend, a book, ect.  However you take it.



.

I don't write enough to have a writing style.

On NF, my writing style is to express things as simply and in as dumbed down a format as possible to avoid being misinterpreted.  Maybe I should 180 and try to offer complex responses instead..


----------



## Malicious Friday (Nov 22, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Anyway, this has inspired me to ask you all a question that's probably been asked before but.
> 
> Who do you think has been the most influential on your writing style?  Be it an author, a teacher, a friend, a book, ect.  However you take it.



Probably Anthony Horowitz and Cassandra Clare because when I started really writing, I was reading their books and took and formed their techniques into what I'm currently writing today. CC does a lot of showing, and I mean _a lot_ of showing, and I'm trying to do that since people keep telling me I do more telling. 

And it's hard getting into another book because CC's writing style is so...showy.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 22, 2014)

Cassandra Clare was a really popular fan fiction writer in the early 2000s her most popular series is really just Harry Potter fan fiction with the serial number filed off. 

My big issue with her is the plagiarism and the divide she caused in the fan community. It's sad because like you say her writing is showy. Her story is actually somewhat interesting.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Nov 22, 2014)

I still don't really see how The Mortal Instruments is just like Harry Potter.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Nov 22, 2014)

Muggles/Mundanes
Wands/Steeles(?)
Hogwarts/Idris(Or whatever the fuck its called)

Theres a shit ton of shit


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 22, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> I still don't really see how The Mortal Instruments is just like Harry Potter.



That main blond guy is Draco. Clary is Ginny. Simon is Harry. The Draco trilogy was the original name of the story.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Nov 22, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> That main blond guy is Draco. Clary is Ginny. Simon is Harry. The Draco trilogy was the original name of the story.





~Avant~ said:


> Muggles/Mundanes
> Wands/Steeles(?)
> Hogwarts/Idris(Or whatever the fuck its called)
> 
> Theres a shit ton of shit



Okay, I see where you're getting at :T 

Even though Idris isn't a school...I think.

But those are just items in the story though. There's not much of a...Nevermind... Wait, Voldemort wanted to kill all muggles, right?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 22, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> Okay, I see where you're getting at :T
> 
> Even though Idris isn't a school...I think.
> 
> But those are just items in the story though. There's not much of a...Nevermind... Wait, Voldemort wanted to kill all muggles, right?



It's not like it has to exactly match. It was a Harry Potter fan fiction story that she repurposed into an original story.


----------



## Muah (Nov 22, 2014)

Donald Goines inspires me to write. Micheal chricton inspires me to use hype, creativity, and suspense to make people turn the next page.


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 22, 2014)

Type Moon kicked me into finally writing the novel myself. Vladmir Nabokov deeply influenced me though I could never use English so skillfully. Haruki Murakami, also inspired me. The video games of Tetsuya Takahashi.  So many wild and wacky influences.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Nov 25, 2014)

Short story I wrote a few years ago called _The Miracle Magician:_


*Spoiler*: __ 





> “Come, come! The newest freak show attraction for the Cirque de L'?trange et Bizarre! I present to you, The Miracle Magician!” In this little village near Paris, we don’t receive many visitors—there isn’t much to do here. This “Cirque de L'?trange et Bizarre” came some few months ago only an opportunity to present his newest attraction to us, and to make a few quick euros. I am not one of these gullible people to believe the existence of “freaks”. I believe they’re only actors in disguise. “He comes from another dimension,” the owner of the cirque announces. “He can heal the sick, make the crippled walk, and can even make the blind see. Come one, come all. Your illnesses shall be cured!”
> 
> One by one, the feeble and feckless walk, limp or are guided into a dimmed, pink and yellow tent and come out renewed like they were born again. I believe none of what I am witnessing to have the slightest iota truth. We are all beguiled into thinking this “Miracle Magician” is some sort of Jesus. I have a hunch that this “magician” is nothing more than a fraud, all of these people claiming they are ill, blind, deaf, or dumb are actors. I have seen not one of the self-accusing people in the village before.
> 
> ...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 26, 2014)

I remember learning that Fight Club was a novel and that caused me to watch the film and then read the book. For the first time I realized that you could curse and be vile and paint a beautiful picture out of all that stuff. It's too bad Chuck P fell off with his writing three or four books into his career. His stuff is all written in the same voice despite being very different characters and Haunted was a good sounding idea, but I just couldn't get into it.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 26, 2014)

It's really difficult to avoid the trap of writing in the same kind of voice or style for everything.  Especially while expressing you voice, and moreso after you've been successful with it.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 26, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> It's really difficult to avoid the trap of writing in the same kind of voice or style for everything.  Especially while expressing you voice, and moreso after you've been successful with it.



Not for me, I mean I slip into a voice sometimes and if it was third person it wouldn't matter as much, but these books are first person and it seems to me like there's something that could be done in editing to at least not make the issue as huge. I get that his books are more thematic things than they were about plot, but at the same time there's not much excuse for a failed medical student with an insane mother, a mother of two that's husband is in a coma so she has to work at a shit job and a guy who has a split personality that wants to bring about order for a generation of men raised solely by women should sound exactly the same. It's just lazy writing and as much as I love the style of the original Fight Club, Choke, and Diary that's the one downfall of all three of those books.


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 26, 2014)

I think I'm pretty good at varying my voice. But, I don't write in first person as much as I used to.  My evergoing novel is in third.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 26, 2014)

I was going through last night just looking over different things I had written over the past few years for the story and it's kind of sad that I will be losing most of the stuff from later on. There was just so much little great stuff here and there that I really enjoyed, but I'm a firm believer in the whole murder your darlings sentiment and I think that there's a lot to be had for great change when it comes to something fun that just isn't fundamentally working. 

But I pulled a little list of stuff I had written at random that I liked and I'm going to post it because whatever. It's not really edited, but fuck it. It'll most likely never get used now. 



> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Lewis is black with a neatly trimmed beard that just enclosed his mouth. His hair was cut close with precise edges. He doesn?t come off as vain, but he takes care of himself. In shape, dressed like he models suits and confident. People are, very often, a little scared of Nephs and they shrink back when around us. Lewis acts like he?s paying me half attention.






> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> It should be hard to see the rain hitting the window of the limo as we race through the city streets. The subtle movements of the car passing over the divots shouldn?t be this easy to feel; neither should the wind pushing against us. When I let my mind lapse every whisper-like detail becomes a shout. The burnt incense from the church still clings to my clothes and hair. The subtle smell of Annemarie?s shampoo mingles with Daunte?s cologne and I can clearly hear each breath she takes as she naps against his shoulder.





> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> The grass behind the funeral home is a gentle slope down to what I think is a bayou?I?m not sure because it?s dark and celibacy has robbed me of my night vision. It doesn?t matter; after a week of helping with funeral preparations, being polite to my family and fending off sympathy my patience is worn too thin for me to be inside.





> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fun times to be had by all.


----------



## Nordstrom (Nov 27, 2014)

I guess CTK is finally realizing he has lots of useful scraps... Better put those together.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 27, 2014)

That was all pulled out of a 50,000 word document. Most of that won't survive or be viable after the changes.


----------



## Nordstrom (Nov 27, 2014)

Ever tried doing a thought exercise involving the scraps? Like, thinking of one particular excerpt you may like and thinking on how to work around with it.

For starters, I had an scrap about a swordfight and another about a fencing club. I did not know what to do with either, then Wendy Wu: Homecoming Warrior goes on TV and I remember a conversation about how Wuxia films are so popular but there are no swordplay films or books and how I argued that in those films, martial arts give you superpowers... Then the plot just wrote itself... 

I still feel it resembles Campione a bit too much. Basically, hero descended from famous renaissance fencer but lives a normal life, he's the popular hero and whatnot, cue one day seeing an unknown girl with a rapier fending off, say, an stray bear in a mall somehow controlled by some bastard with two rapiers and him getting involved... Plot starts writing itself shortly afterwards...

As I said, I'm finding ways to recycle this and not sound like "depowered Campione".


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 28, 2014)

I honestly had to look the word "Wuxia" up because I've never really caught on to what it meant. These scraps aren't completely useless, I guess. But they mostly contain information that will still be needed for the characters in this new form of the story. Not much is changing about the actual characters, just the events that force them into action are being dialed back. 

I've decided that the world ending threat was kind of silly for this story. I wanted something smaller scale, but that didn't involve romance at all. And I wanted it to revolve more around a boarding school. So those were the changes I put in place.


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 28, 2014)

I have eleven chapters now.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Nov 28, 2014)

Google Translate sucks when it comes to translating English into something else. I have a Nigerian character who only speaks Nigerian and all I see is "Afrikaans" as a choice. Like, the fuck?


----------



## Fujita (Nov 28, 2014)

...I wouldn't trust Google translate to do anything but butcher whatever language you're trying to use 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bVAoVlFYf0[/youtube]

Edit: also

don't think "Nigerian" is a language 

official language is English and apart from that, uh...



you have a few to choose from


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 28, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> Google Translate sucks when it comes to translating English into something else. I have a Nigerian character who only speaks Nigerian and all I see is "Afrikaans" as a choice. Like, the fuck?



Nigeria's official language is English. There is no such language as 'Nigerian' it has many tribal languages though. Afrikaans is a South African language descended from Dutch.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 28, 2014)

*Eh, give it a couple decades. *


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 28, 2014)

Nigeria's more likely to break apart.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 28, 2014)

*I take offense to that. 


[SP]...though I don't know why.... [/SP]*


----------



## Cjones (Nov 29, 2014)

Fujita said:


> ...I wouldn't trust Google translate to do anything but butcher whatever language you're trying to use
> 
> [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bVAoVlFYf0[/youtube]
> 
> ...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 29, 2014)

Google translate works best for looking up a single word. There are a lot of apps that do a decent job of this too. I tend to avoid writing anything that's not in English. Usually if I need to say someone said something in another language I either just describe what it sounded like (if the whole thing is in first person and the narrator doesn't know the language) or I just write it in plain English in the book and tell the reader that it was said in another language. 

The second option happens more often because some of the creatures in my books have the ability to understand any language, even things that aren't conventional (machine code, computer languages, etc).


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 29, 2014)

Google translate is only good for browsing foreign websites. And also this.

[YOUTUBE]fTE3JyUjljQ[/YOUTUBE]




On topic, trying to come to terms with the fact I just turned one of my characters albeit temporarily into a vampire. Vampires are so played these days. Yet for me it made the most rational sense given what I was doing for this section. Can't stop beating myself up for it.


----------



## Nordstrom (Nov 30, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I honestly had to look the word "Wuxia" up because I've never really caught on to what it meant. These scraps aren't completely useless, I guess. But they mostly contain information that will still be needed for the characters in this new form of the story. Not much is changing about the actual characters, just the events that force them into action are being dialed back.
> 
> I've decided that the world ending threat was kind of silly for this story. I wanted something smaller scale, but that didn't involve romance at all. And I wanted it to revolve more around a boarding school. So those were the changes I put in place.



Well, that's one more thing for your bestiary-err, I mean tools of trade.

Also, pulling an all nighter to turn all the scraps into a 97,000 word story for NaNoWriMo (yay for Time Zone shift to Colombia!) wish me luck!


----------



## Risyth (Nov 30, 2014)

*Somehow, it's still November here in Maryland too.

Ah well...one second at a time.*


----------



## Nordstrom (Nov 30, 2014)

And no matter how much I try... It still winds up reading like "Campione: The Novel"... Well, I'm ready for Jō Taketsuki to start yelling at me.


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 30, 2014)

There already is a Campione novel, dude.


----------



## Nordstrom (Nov 30, 2014)

Right... Campione: Full novelization for America, Australia and the Americas... Campione is a light novel, not a full fledged one.

Basically, it's a Wuxia film, but rather than martial arts and Asians, it features an Australian protagonist who descends from El Cid Campeador (basically, Spanish King Arthur) and has inherited his wealth, properties, weapons, belongings and techniques. He's living a normal life till he sees a young girl using an Espada Ropera and fighting off what looks like a mutated bear in a lifestyle mall... She seems to have uncanny beauty, regeneration and moves fast...

She's still hurt, and in a rush, he takes her sword and defeats the bear after moving inexplicably fast as well... Blah, blah, he gets home, erdo erdo she meets his parents which are happy a girl is finally interested in him (specially a pretty Spaniard blonde) and he shoos her away from home... By overwhelming her with fireplace pokers... Later his sister meets her, realizes she's here because of their secret, reveals she too has swordsmanship skills and attempts to send her away but said girl sneaks to safety...

Point two, he meets another girl with an sword who can control animals, she tells him about what they are and after they fend off another attack in a forest, he asks that she train him to become a beastmaster too...

Cue a reunion and the male main lead, his big sister and the two girls going to El Cid's original state, being informed of his abilities and undergoing training from hell (cursed be TVTropes) to protect El Cid's sword, Tizona, from a group that wants to gather 6 "Legacy Heirlooms" (legendary swords) to kickstart the Nazca Line leylines and bring about the return of magic. He eventually attends an event where leaders of all the leading houses possessing the swords meet and he makes friends with them all and attempt to protect the blades from the organization that is attempting to seize them (the Knights Templar) and this involves a series of battles and a reverse mole (once more, curse TVTropes) and the characters all wind up fighting against Templars in Machu Pichu before the final battle against a monster (that may or may not be ORT) and overwhelm it together before the main character fights his rival and a former best friend. Eventually, he asks his new friends whether or not they should bring the age of magic, gods, legends, fairy and folk tales, treasure, glory, discoveries, adventures and myths back. They all agree and complete the ritual anyways (a downside of the Templars doing it was a risk of sinking America since they couldn't control the power of the swords as they are normal people) and magic comes back. Book ends with a romantic prom to which the protagonist takes the main female lead and shocks a girl that rejected and humiliated him into silence while out the sun rises as fairies and gryphons fly in the sky, heralding the beginning of a new age.

Differences...


It's not Italy (though it's featured). It's SPAIN! Viva Espa?a! Espa?a controla los mares!
Main female (name is Sol) is nice, polite and while pretty and powerful, is very understanding and modest.
Gods will be featured, but they are not the focus of the story more than the legendary swordsmen from which all characters that can fight descend from.
Some abilities are hereditary.

Similarities...

Abilities can be "learned" or "expropriated" as Expropriated Arts (or EX Arts).
The descendants of legendary swordsmen are all referred to as "Kings" and have mindsets that may seem outdated or ahead of their time.
Characters CAN fight gods, but don't in the first story and don't need to, as gods aren't unruly (no Heretic Gods).
An Italian love interest that may or may not resemble Erica Blandelli (is based on someone I actually met and asked to turn into a character).
Friendship and rivalries against the legendary swordsmen (like between Campione).

Also, as oddities: Sol's character design IS a clone of Pyrrha Alexandra's, there will be a reference to Verethragna (though it'll be Gilgamesh that gets most of the focus, since he likes it so much) and most of the character designs I commissioned sketches for look like I ripped them out of either Campione, Conception, Tekken, DOA, Soul or BlazBlue.

If it's not "Campione, but Spanish" then I could get very lucky and it instead becomes a successor to Harry Potter.

Otherwise, I'll just scrap it afterwards and use the narrative as window dressing for a spin off (even though technically, this is an AU of my true mainline work in which the rather than stay Russia, Russia goes back to Iron Curtain USSR after bleeding America to death) or if different enough, will connect it to the main work at some point.

So far 46817 words and still November in Colombia. God Bless Simon Bolivar!!!


----------



## Sanity Check (Nov 30, 2014)

I've been experimenting with ywriter5 to see what type of functionality it offers.

Has anyone tried using apps to outline stories or word processor apps with functionality not offered by microsoft word or other industry standard software?

I've thought it would be cool to diagram and edit a storyline like a flowchart that breaks down into sub scenes or chapters.  Doesn't seem as if its something that has been done before.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 30, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> Right... Campione: Full novelization for America, Australia and the Americas... Campione is a light novel, not a full fledged one.
> 
> Basically, it's a Wuxia film, but rather than martial arts and Asians, it features an Australian protagonist who descends from El Cid Campeador (basically, Spanish King Arthur) and has inherited his wealth, properties, weapons, belongings and techniques. He's living a normal life till he sees a young girl using an Espada Ropera and fighting off what looks like a mutated bear in a lifestyle mall... She seems to have uncanny beauty, regeneration and moves fast...
> 
> ...



I want to say I read most of this, but the things that stick out to me are the mentioning of the Spanish blonde (just seems like a really weird thing to get hung up on) and also you don't think that a small group of people deciding to basically change the whole world in a way that they like kind of sounds unfair to the other other almost seven billion people on it? Maybe that's a nit picky thing to say, but it feels really unfair and wrong for anyone to do something like that. 

Maybe that's just me. 

Other than that I think you need to lay off the anime, manga and light novels for a while.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 30, 2014)

Sanity Check said:


> I've been experimenting with ywriter5 to see what type of functionality it offers.
> 
> Has anyone tried using apps to outline stories or word processor apps with functionality not offered by microsoft word or other industry standard software?
> 
> I've thought it would be cool to diagram and edit a storyline like a flowchart that breaks down into sub scenes or chapters.  Doesn't seem as if its something that has been done before.



I installed it, but I habitually open up a doc to write down ideas.  I'll have to dedicate a story I work on exclusively in ywriter to see how it goes.  I definitely looks neat.


----------



## Nordstrom (Nov 30, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I want to say I read most of this, but the things that stick out to me are the mentioning of the Spanish blonde (just seems like a really weird thing to get hung up on) and also you don't think that a small group of people deciding to basically change the whole world in a way that they like kind of sounds unfair to the other other almost seven billion people on it? Maybe that's a nit picky thing to say, but it feels really unfair and wrong for anyone to do something like that.
> 
> Maybe that's just me.
> 
> Other than that I think you need to lay off the anime, manga and light novels for a while.



The blonde hair thing is mostly a way to ward off any similarities to a Campione character.

Basically, the idea is that the world is either going to stagnate without magic or it's going to go down the same way it does now. By having magic come back, they ensure that society as a whole cannot cope with people who wish to be different. Basically, in my works, magic is that alternative that allows you to emerge victorious against all odds. Without magic, you become a part of society and accept it as it is or become an undesirable pariah. This is a frequent element of my stories, in which it's not "good vs evil" but "conformism and hierarchy vs uniqueness and rebellion" and then there's magic... which "empowers" the later to oppose the former regardless of being outnumbered and overwhelmed. This allows both to have good lives.

Also, given that the point is to "adapt certain quirks from those to Western audiences, I don't think I can". The aesthetic is a big no no though. Western characters are either too realistic or too plain (cartoony) and both look jarring.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 2, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> The blonde hair thing is mostly a way to ward off any similarities to a Campione character.
> 
> Basically, the idea is that the world is either going to stagnate without magic or it's going to go down the same way it does now. By having magic come back, they ensure that society as a whole cannot cope with people who wish to be different. Basically, in my works, magic is that alternative that allows you to emerge victorious against all odds. Without magic, you become a part of society and accept it as it is or become an undesirable pariah. This is a frequent element of my stories, in which it's not "good vs evil" but "conformism and hierarchy vs uniqueness and rebellion" and then there's magic... which "empowers" the later to oppose the former regardless of being outnumbered and overwhelmed. This allows both to have good lives.
> 
> Also, given that the point is to "adapt certain quirks from those to Western audiences, I don't think I can". The aesthetic is a big no no though. Western characters are either too realistic or too plain (cartoony) and both look jarring.



Why wouldn't magic just create a new order of conformists or empower those more who are already in power? 

And there's more to Eastern media than Anime. I've never really had any interest in Japanese novels, but I'm sure the same way there's things different in our comics in terms of themes and influence the same can probably be said about Japan. 

Speaking of which, I picked up a comic tonight and haven't read it yet. Left it in my car.


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 2, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Why wouldn't magic just create a new order of conformists or empower those more who are already in power?
> 
> And there's more to Eastern media than Anime. I've never really had any interest in Japanese novels, but I'm sure the same way there's things different in our comics in terms of themes and influence the same can probably be said about Japan.
> 
> Speaking of which, I picked up a comic tonight and haven't read it yet. Left it in my car.



There's a reason for the main characters to have lives, right?

After running it through, I decided to give these guys a clearer mission. Protect the Supernatural and make it available to isolated individuals and small groups, but keep big government/companies/corrupt plutarchs/oligarchs away from it and make sure they can't do much.

I'm aware of that, but since Western media seems lacking in male oriented romance (no matter how many books I search and read, it's ALWAYS the side dish) and on stuff that BOTH lack... Wish fulfillment oriented one. Basically, the guy can't, even if just for a second, be on the winning end and have to do nothing beyond existing.

In Western and Eastern media alike, men have no passive value. I'm giving them some, even if I must limit it.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 2, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> There's a reason for the main characters to have lives, right?
> 
> After running it through, I decided to give these guys a clearer mission. Protect the Supernatural and make it available to isolated individuals and small groups, but keep big government/companies/corrupt plutarchs/oligarchs away from it and make sure they can't do much.
> 
> ...



Maybe you should read Ghost by John Rhingo. It's basically a story about a Republican Marine that likes to rape woman and have super dominate sex. It seems like it's meant to be romantic for men...in a way or be sexy. And it's Western written. 

And it's basically the equivalent of an abortion committed on paper.


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 2, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Maybe you should read Ghost by John Rhingo. It's basically a story about a Republican Marine that likes to rape woman and have super dominate sex. It seems like it's meant to be romantic for men...in a way or be sexy. And it's Western written.
> 
> And it's basically the equivalent of an abortion committed on paper.



It feels more like someone attempted to write as many human rights violations as he could and get them published.

Apparently, the idea of a guy fancying meeting an attractive foreign woman, being whisked to a foreign country, given superpowers like her own to fight to find his purpose and himself, making good friends and having three fantastic suitors fighting for his attention doesn't seem romantic enough, right?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 2, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> It feels more like someone attempted to write as many human rights violations as he could and get them published.
> 
> Apparently, the idea of a guy fancying meeting an attractive foreign woman, being whisked to a foreign country, given superpowers like her own to fight to find his purpose and himself, making good friends and having three fantastic suitors fighting for his attention doesn't seem romantic enough, right?



To me? Not really. I don't find the idea of a lot of women pining over me to be something good or nice. I don't think most people really like the "love triangle" thing that a lot of books try to shoehorn in because of Twilight and how it was so popular there. 

I think that romance isn't something that most men worry about in the way you're describing it. I mean I haven't taken a poll, but I don't know any guys who have ever expressed an interest in reading something that meant to focus on romance for them.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Dec 3, 2014)

Go watch that movie where the guy is trying to find the girl he met or saw at a train station, and covers the city in a campaign to meet her.  Romantic comedy featuring a male lead who's chasing The One.  It's actually pretty good.  I enjoyed it.  But I don't mind romcoms.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Dec 3, 2014)

> Apparently, the idea of a guy fancying meeting an attractive foreign woman, being whisked to a foreign country, given superpowers like her own to fight to find his purpose and himself, making good friends and having three fantastic suitors fighting for his attention doesn't seem romantic enough, right?



If you give me a plot of saving the world, and romance is the driving force and focusof the plot and characters, I'm going to believe that your cast has messed up priorities.  Even Sailor Moon got it better than:

Character A: We must stop Dark Lord from vanquishing all good on our planet!
Character B:  I know we have to save an entire race, but do you think the chosen one likes me, or _like_ likes me?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 3, 2014)

I think that's kind of my point about a lot of this stuff. There's a lot of things in some forms of media that we shouldn't try to emulate because they're just bad practices. I was talking with a friend last night about how crazy it is that most Shonen main characters have that same personality type. There seems to be very little variation in that and with characters like that there tends to only be so little that you can actually tell in a story or focus on. 

It feels like, Nordstrom, if you want to tell a story that is supposed to seriously focus on love and not just touch on it, the way things like Harry Potter have, you're going to need to expect the rest of the plot to overshadow that love story still OR you're going to have to bite the bullet and tone down the world threat type thing that's going on because the two don't mesh well without one of them looking out of place and silly. 

Listening to someone complain about high school style issues or about a guy liking them or being excited over three girls being after them pales in comparison to world threatening, life threatening events. That's one of the smartest things about _Fifty Shades of Grey_ and _Twilight_, there's nothing else going on in those books. At their most serious a family is threatened. 

It helps make the focus on the love story more prevalent because nothing more serious is happening.


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 3, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> To me? Not really. I don't find the idea of a lot of women pining over me to be something good or nice. I don't think most people really like the "love triangle" thing that a lot of books try to shoehorn in because of Twilight and how it was so popular there.
> 
> I think that romance isn't something that most men worry about in the way you're describing it. I mean I haven't taken a poll, but I don't know any guys who have ever expressed an interest in reading something that meant to focus on romance for them.



Oh, that's the point. I'm not trying to shoehorn it in. Romance is usually the _driving_ force in the plot where I write. It's embroiled in the cause of things and is usually the solution.

For a good example, in my first and main story, the guy is in an arranged marriage, the main girl is dying from a terminal disease. The guy is a supernatural being that's being hunted down before his powers activate, as that will permanently set the new age of the world in place, while the antagonists are trying to revert it to what it once was (basically, our world).

Turns out that the antagonist's leader was the one who pushed for the arranged marriage, as the girl that's marrying him attempts to give him a pendant to wipe his powers, killing his chances of his powers emerging and making him a full human. The main female lead, however, becomes a strong opposing force, as her presence makes his powers emerge earlier and a gift from her limits the influence of the pendant. Eventually, turns out that a substance he gives off during his first days as a supernatural beast are the cure to her disease.

So basically, their relationship saves the world by allowing the main character to obtain his powers, he saves his love interest because he has the cure and their relationship is stronger than ever because of this. Their love saved each other and the world from doom.



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> *Go watch that movie where the guy is trying to find the girl he met or saw at a train station, and covers the city in a campaign to meet her.*  Romantic comedy featuring a male lead who's chasing The One.  It's actually pretty good.  I enjoyed it.  But I don't mind romcoms.



Paperman?

Also, the thing is, I know romantic comedies exist in troves, but I'm trying to focus on drama as well.



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> If you give me a plot of saving the world, and romance is the driving force and focusof the plot and characters, I'm going to believe that your cast has messed up priorities.  Even Sailor Moon got it better than:
> 
> Character A: We must stop Dark Lord from vanquishing all good on our planet!
> Character B:  I know we have to save an entire race, but do you think the chosen one likes me, or _like_ likes me?



It's obviously not going to be that overshadowing. I'd say it's more woven into the story carefully.

Basically, the guy is initially reluctant because of the obvious real world impression that something involving magic is dangerous (at least for the new story) but spending time with the female leads leads to him actually enjoying it and he calms down as the magical doesn't seems nearly as threatening as society would make him believe. Eventually, he grows to really care for his friends and love interests, as well as the beauty of the supernatural, and decides to protect it, simply because his love interests are part of it and he's realized he doesn't wants to lose them. Same reason behind why they are there in the first place. They've always wanted to meet him, the descendant of a legend, and now they're staying not out of admiration, but because of the love they found for the magical, and most importantly, because they've fallen for him and want to protect him, even if it costs them their life.

It all comes down to, guy and girl meeting, guy liking girl, but being reluctant of the magical, spending time with the girl changes his impression of the magical and he develops strong attachment towards her. With 3+ girls, the attachment becomes even stronger and he eventually chooses to become a part of the magical.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I think that's kind of my point about a lot of this stuff. There's a lot of things in some forms of media that we shouldn't try to emulate because they're just bad practices. I was talking with a friend last night about how crazy it is that most Shonen main characters have that same personality type. There seems to be very little variation in that and with characters like that there tends to only be so little that you can actually tell in a story or focus on.
> 
> It feels like, Nordstrom, if you want to tell a story that is supposed to seriously focus on love and not just touch on it, the way things like Harry Potter have, you're going to need to expect the rest of the plot to overshadow that love story still OR you're going to have to bite the bullet and tone down the world threat type thing that's going on because the two don't mesh well without one of them looking out of place and silly.
> 
> ...



Why does everybody think I'm talking about high school gossip tier romance here?

It's not so all over the place that it will keep a plot from existing, but it's not so insignificant for the plot to overshadow it instead. In a way, they are actually woven together. The romance is usually the driving force behind the plot. Without love interests, the guy's only reason to not go back to his normal life is his fascination with the magical, and that is nice but not enough to power the plot forward.

Basically, the more time he spends with love interests, the more attached he becomes to them and the new world he's in. I'm not going to be putting too much gossip or stuff all over the place, but there's going to be enough to laugh and enough drama for unexpected turns of events...


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Dec 4, 2014)

Part of the magical harem?


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Dec 4, 2014)

That sounds like Pocahontas, but with a foursome.  

I get what you mean though.  It is less pressure, though, like CTK was saying.  There isn't an immediate press when he meets and gets to know the women and magic.  You also didn't spell is magick, so it gets bonus points.


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 4, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Part of the magical harem?







The Pirate on Wheels said:


> That sounds like Pocahontas, but with a foursome.
> 
> I get what you mean though.  It is less pressure, though, like CTK was saying.  There isn't an immediate press when he meets and gets to know the women and magic.  You also didn't spell is magick, so it gets bonus points.



 If you want the Disney version 

Actually, a better comparison would be most of those "teens discovers they have superpower and are initiated into the group by an opposite sex character" kind of thing. I can't really bring up specific examples now, but it's that kind of thing.

Also, what are you talking about with magick?


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Dec 5, 2014)

> Actually, a better comparison would be most of those "teens discovers they have superpower and are initiated into the group by an opposite sex character" kind of thing. I can't really bring up specific examples now, but it's that kind of thing.



But then they have to choose between the super powered magical chick, and their childhood friend who's loved and taken care of them since elementary school.  You're just begging for a rivalry.



> Also, what are you talking about with magick?



Magick is a stupid spelling and rage quit books and stories that spell it that way.


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 5, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> But then they have to choose between the super powered magical chick, and their childhood friend who's loved and taken care of them since elementary school.  You're just begging for a rivalry.



Except that rather than having a childhood friend, said character had a crush on a pretty half foreign girl that he knows is out of his league and probably not interested in him, only for said girl to reveal herself as a supernatural warrior as well.

And yes, there is going to be a rivalry. That's point one. The other is a "common enemy" that makes them forget their rivalry to work against her... Hence the "harem" element writes itself.

Girl A initiates protagonist into magical world.
Girl B reveals her connections to the magical world and reveals the reasons for her rejection of male lead are because of this (because magic's complicated and you'd be in danger and all that jazz) and then reveals she actually feels something for him, prompting rivalry with Girl A
Girl C comes into the picture initially to bring tensions down, but she finds herself liking the protagonist and the protagonist liking her and finds herself attempting to fend herself off from Girls A and B.



> Magick is a stupid spelling and rage quit books and stories that spell it that way.



I don't like the "magick" spelling either.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Dec 6, 2014)

Why do people even spell "magic" like "magick" anyway? It seems so redundant.


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 6, 2014)

I hate harem plots. They only work  if

A) The protagonist is a scumbag and the heroines are codependent psychological messes
B) Everyone's an idiot
C) The hero is a  Sultan and the heroines are his actual harem


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 6, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> I hate harem plots. They only work  if
> 
> A) The protagonist is a scumbag and the heroines are codependent psychological messes
> B) Everyone's an idiot
> C) The hero is a  Sultan and the heroines are his actual harem



Scumbag would actually be an interesting way for this to go.


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 6, 2014)

School Days did it. Didn't turn out well.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Dec 6, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Scumbag would actually be an interesting way for this to go.



I rarely see a character with an active harem that deserves even one of the girls he's sleeping with.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 6, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I rarely see a character with an active harem that deserves even one of the girls he's sleeping with.



Yeah but aren't most of them the confused kind of passive guys who are just like "Why is this happening to me?"


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 6, 2014)

Malicious Friday said:


> Why do people even spell "magic" like "magick" anyway? It seems so redundant.



And that's an ugly bastardization of the original word.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Scumbag would actually be an interesting way for this to go.



No, I don't want another School Days unless it's the happy ending.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Yeah but aren't most of them the confused kind of passive guys who are just like "Why is this happening to me?"



Well, the two characters of the two stories are initially normal guys, but once they see they have three girls going after them, they simply try to choose... Fail miserably once they realize that without one of them they feel something's missing, they all confess, he tells them how he feels and they stay by his side together since they don't want to let go of him either, specially not if he doesn't wants them to.


----------



## Puppetry (Dec 6, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> Actually, a better comparison would be most of those "teens discovers they have superpower and are initiated into the group by an opposite sex character" kind of thing. I can't really bring up specific examples now, but it's that kind of thing.



Cassandra Clare's _The Mortal Instruments_ series fits this description snugly. Incidentally, it's also one of the few series that does this trope somewhat acceptably by striking a pretty fair balance between the romance and 'Save The World' plot line.


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 6, 2014)

Hopefully I can emulate it. Somebody read it and said they loved it, but I have yet to read it. Likely to do so after I finish this one (which is more of a pet project, my main work is on hiatus because it's almost completely been finished and I'm only pending on betaing it before finding an agent) and, given the vast difference between the world as I depict it and as it is, I feel the second might actually have better odds at making it through a publisher, given it feels more like our world, whereas the main work is likely to trigger culture shock on many...

So, I'll end this before taking a break. The NaNoWriMo version was too crude to be read comfortably.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Dec 7, 2014)

im drunk and bored


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 7, 2014)

Not sure if gone too far.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 7, 2014)

So on the technical side of the writing front: I lost Microsoft Office on my laptop because I had come by it through _less than legal means_. Something told me to give Google Documents another try, the last time I did was several years ago and while I was impressed it didn't have the feature set I needed. 

I can say now that after seeing how well their documents work when in the Google docs format (complete with comments converted over from Microsoft Office) that I'm a believer in the program now. I might not keep using it permanently, but I have been using it for a while now--even on the computer that still has a working copy of Word. The thing is that even if I wanted to use Word's free online version it requires me to have some other kind of account that I don't have already or use. 

It's just kind of shitty when compared to the ease of Google drive and documents.


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 7, 2014)

I use Open Office.


----------



## Puppetry (Dec 7, 2014)

Yeah, Open Office is every bit as good as Microsoft - on account of it being a perfect replica - and it's free.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 7, 2014)

I don't like Open Office because of the comment feature not working correctly the last time I tried it (which works seamlessly in Google Docs and Office) and because it just kind of looks ugly to be honest. That might sound superficial, but even the typeset looks uglier when I'm typing and I can't get over that (or maybe I'm thinking of LibreOffice). 

Plus Word and Google both have cloud storage options I'm already using. I don't know if Open Office does.


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 7, 2014)

If I don't up my pacing this book might split off into yet another, turning a duology into a Quadrilogy.


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 7, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> So on the technical side of the writing front: I lost Microsoft Office on my laptop because I had come by it through _less than legal means_. Something told me to give Google Documents another try, the last time I did was several years ago and while I was impressed it didn't have the feature set I needed.
> 
> I can say now that after seeing how well their documents work when in the Google docs format (complete with comments converted over from Microsoft Office) that I'm a believer in the program now. I might not keep using it permanently, but I have been using it for a while now--even on the computer that still has a working copy of Word. The thing is that even if I wanted to use Word's free online version it requires me to have some other kind of account that I don't have already or use.
> 
> It's just kind of shitty when compared to the ease of Google drive and documents.



If you have a Google account. If you have a Microsoft account, there's no difference whatsoever. Specially since I had a Microsoft account before I got a Google one.



Puppetry said:


> Yeah, Open Office is every bit as good as Microsoft - on account of being a perfect replica - and it's free.



Don't use either. I rely on either Adobe InCopy or Scrivener. Other software is either too lacking or too complicated for me to use.



Lord Yu said:


> If I don't up my pacing this book might split off into yet another, turning a duology into a Quadrilogy.



*Tetralogy. You've got two, if one splits, then you get a third one. Unless the splitting one is the third one...


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 7, 2014)

I'm saying I might have double what I planned. The first and second would probably split at this rate.  The first book is supposed to take place over a period of seven months. I'm probably about 50,000 words in and I've only covered three weeks.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 8, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> If you have a Google account. If you have a Microsoft account, there's no difference whatsoever. Specially since I had a Microsoft account before I got a Google one.



The difference is that my phone, browser, and tablet are all Google and it's intergrated into all those things. And I use my Google account way more. At this point the only thing on my MS account is my Skype. Everything else is through Google or Facebook or Twitter. 

Then there's the fact that it's not a straight Microsoft account. You have to have what's called an "Office 365 account" which might be able to connect to a hotmail, but I can't be bothered to create it. You can sign into paid versions of Word with a hotmail, but not the free version.


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 8, 2014)

^ Really, I've been able to use the free version with a normal account. I don't even remember a migration process...



Lord Yu said:


> I'm saying I might have double what I planned. The first and second would probably split at this rate.  The first book is supposed to take place over a period of seven months. I'm probably about 50,000 words in and I've only covered three weeks.



Oh, so both are splitting... Well, I guess that makes more sense...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 8, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> ^ Really, I've been able to use the free version with a normal account. I don't even remember a migration process...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, so both are splitting... Well, I guess that makes more sense...



Maybe I did something wrong or maybe it's because it's a hotmail and not an MSN address, but I am really sure I typed in the right stuff to sign in. I've had the same account and password for hotmail since 1998 and it's how I sign into my laptop. I just feel like if they really wanted people to use it they would integrate it into windows more.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Dec 8, 2014)

Lord Yu said:


> I'm saying I might have double what I planned. The first and second would probably split at this rate.  The first book is supposed to take place over a period of seven months. I'm probably about 50,000 words in and I've only covered three weeks.



One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich still has you beat on a words per day ratio.


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 8, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Maybe I did something wrong or maybe it's because it's a hotmail and not an MSN address, but I am really sure I typed in the right stuff to sign in. I've had the same account and password for hotmail since 1998 and it's how I sign into my laptop. I just feel like if they really wanted people to use it they would integrate it into windows more.



If you can log in to your email, all it takes is to click the "window pane" icon besides the "Outlook.com" banner and it should display everything available to you, including Word Online.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 8, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> If you can log in to your email, all it takes is to click the "window pane" icon besides the "Outlook.com" banner and it should display everything available to you, including Word Online.



Okay, that actually worked this time. Thanks. It's probably going to be my alternative if I decide to be done with Google Docs. So far it's working really well and my only complaint is something stupid they seemed to carry over from Word (how sometimes the tab will move the margin over at weird times).


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 8, 2014)

Not a problem. Yeah, there still seem to be minor issues but nothing worth making a fuss over.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Dec 15, 2014)

So I have this tremendous backflash arc that needs to take place, and I'm not sure how to best implement it into the story.

Should I just make it the starting point of the story? Should I begin it after the first arc? Or should I have it as a dual narrative, with half the story taking place in the present and the other half in the past?


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 15, 2014)

I'd say depending on how the flashback connects to the story. Is it there to just carry a theme by showing a past event that parallels current happenings? Break it up across the story.  Does it show a pivotal event in a characters life that informs how they'll act in the present? Put it whole into a place where you feel the reader absolutely needs this information. 


These are suggestions.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Dec 15, 2014)

It works primarily as the latter but can also work as the former. 

Essentially the main character wakes up in present day NYC, after a 400 year long sleep. The first story arc deals with The Mafia/Espers and the Hashashin/Alchemists, and will have a similar feel to it as the York Shin Arc from HxH. 

The flashback comes after that story arc and will showcase the events that occurred in the main characters past as well as detail the roots to the many organizations that are currently in power in the present and are now fixated on exterminating the main character.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Dec 15, 2014)

~Avant~ said:


> So I have this tremendous backflash arc that needs to take place, and I'm not sure how to best implement it into the story.
> 
> Should I just make it the starting point of the story? Should I begin it after the first arc? Or should I have it as a dual narrative, with half the story taking place in the present and the other half in the past?





~Avant~ said:


> It works primarily as the latter but can also work as the former.
> 
> Essentially the main character wakes up in present day NYC, after a 400 year long sleep. The first story arc deals with The Mafia/Espers and the Hashashin/Alchemists, and will have a similar feel to it as the York Shin Arc from HxH.
> 
> The flashback comes after that story arc and will showcase the events that occurred in the main characters past as well as detail the roots to the many organizations that are currently in power in the present and are now fixated on exterminating the main character.





Lord Yu said:


> I'd say depending on how the flashback connects to the story. Is it there to just carry a theme by showing a past event that parallels current happenings? Break it up across the story.



I suggest what you do with the flashback is this first suggestion Yu said. (And I'm thinking of doing it myself.)


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 15, 2014)

~Avant~ said:


> It works primarily as the latter but can also work as the former.
> 
> Essentially the main character wakes up in present day NYC, after a 400 year long sleep. The first story arc deals with The Mafia/Espers and the Hashashin/Alchemists, and will have a similar feel to it as the York Shin Arc from HxH.
> 
> The flashback comes after that story arc and will showcase the events that occurred in the main characters past as well as detail the roots to the many organizations that are currently in power in the present and are now fixated on exterminating the main character.



I've think I've dealt with this before...



Malicious Friday said:


> I suggest what you do with the flashback is this first suggestion Yu said. (And I'm thinking of doing it myself.)



I'll tell you, unlike Yu, to bring it up in a Chapter of it's own, but only if you have enough disinformation that needs unraveling...

Simply because seeing the effects of what happened together and then pulling back to the story is going to leave people disoriented and wanting to read more to make sense of what they've just read.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Dec 16, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> I've think I've dealt with this before...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm thinking of putting the chapters side-by-side one another where there are similarities in the history. For instance, when Anetelia loses the war and dies, the chapter before that is going to have Cantorium losing the war which happened a few thousand years before that. Makes sense?


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 16, 2014)

^ It does. I think it'll work out pretty well...


----------



## ~Avant~ (Dec 16, 2014)

Makes sense


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 17, 2014)

~Avant~ said:


> So I have this tremendous backflash arc that needs to take place, and I'm not sure how to best implement it into the story.
> 
> Should I just make it the starting point of the story? Should I begin it after the first arc? Or should I have it as a dual narrative, with half the story taking place in the present and the other half in the past?



I was kind of the type who really hated flashbacks in stories and TV shows and I think that I would have remained that way if not for Gone Girl, the book really uses them effectively, but they're so intertwined in the twist that without them the book wouldn't read as well and the latter half wouldn't be so exciting. 

I feel like they're still dangerous--they can take away from the main plot of the book and distract and slow the reader down. 

But in some cases they have to be there and actually carry the plot forward.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Dec 17, 2014)

I was of the same opinion as you, but this flashback is unavoidable, since many characters that will play keyroles in the future will have been introduced in the past, and they wont carry the same type of gravitas if I just skip the flashback all together.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 17, 2014)

If it's unavoidable I would say make them the norm like you thought about and do them every other chapter. 

Damn, this getting back into writing thing has been an uphill battle.


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 18, 2014)

Guys, I think it's official... I'm going to make a third pet project and expand my own verse considerably with this. It happened shortly after I rescued an old story I had written up from my first laptop's HDD which mysteriously decided to bring itself back to life again. It'd be my first work with a female protagonist and my first work period. It's not really my first work, but it's my technically, my first work...

So, now, I've got three premises...

1. First. Male protagonist is the descendant of a legendary warrior from Spanish mythology and the only one that can wield his legendary sword and harness the warrior's powers. Accompanied by his friends, he sets in an adventure into the magical and mythical side of the world few of us have ever seen. All to protect weapons like those he wields from the wrong hands and make sure they're delivered to their rightful owners and wielders.

2. A young boy finds himself chased by unknown forces and as the target of a large scale manhunt for unknown reasons. A most unlikely protector, meanwhile, rises from the shadows to keep him -and his heart- safe. However, balancing his life between a restless manhunt in the world's capital, newfound feelings for his gorgeous and coddling protector and his future engagement to a girl he's never met before, he'll have to make an important choice... To be who everyone wishes him to be, or who he wants to be...

3. A young girl that has always believed in magic suddenly finds herself embroiled in a world of beautiful nymphs, powerful gods and colossal dragons and giants as she discovers an old stradivarius violin that lay hidden in her home, and that would change the lives of both her and her friends, from the moment she first lay eyes on it, on that quiet spring morning in the American countryside.

So, basically, I've decided to give each story a theme... The first is combat, the second is wisdom and the third is music... Basically, the first revolves around protecting the world, the second revolves around using wisdom to lead civilization to rearise and flourish and the third revolves around using music to revitalize the world in which we live in...


----------



## ~Avant~ (Dec 18, 2014)

Sounds pretty interesting


----------



## Malicious Friday (Dec 18, 2014)

Eh, is doesn't sound like something I would read.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Dec 18, 2014)

The third one would be the most difficult to pull off, since its so reliant on music, and that is incredibly hard to convey through writing.


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 18, 2014)

~Avant~ said:


> Sounds pretty interesting



I think so. In fact, while I knew about the idea of splitting things so that there would be three main characters at some point, I never thought that the third would become a major story on it's own right, rather than just an spin off of one of the stories.



Malicious Friday said:


> Eh, is doesn't sound like something I would read.



The third may not. But one of the first two would likely get to you. I'm saying this as someone who thought that the rescued file would be very low quality and was impressed when I saw the script and how addictive it had become...



~Avant~ said:


> The third one would be the most difficult to pull off, since its so reliant on music, and that is incredibly hard to convey through writing.



So I thought, but then again, turns out my old (ancient) writing style was actually rather nice and I could pull it off. It's still undergoing a rewrite, but it's minuscule...

Basically, one protects the world, the other nurtures it, and the third appeases it.

Or to put it in a better way...

One represents strength, the other wisdom and the other creativity. The purpose of the first is to be the protector of the magical through it's strength, the purpose of the second is to enrich the land and nature through wisdom and the purpose of the third is to foster the growth and prosperity of civilization...

One is the reason magic and myths existed in the past, the other is the reason nature and diversity weren't horribly wrecked in the past and the third is the reason civilizations such as Ancient Greece and Rome and monuments like the Parthenon and the Giza pyramids could be built in ancient times and is also the reason for the Gods of those times not going on destructive rampages.

Remember the part where I said that some stuff would resemble Campione and Fate Stay Night? Yeah, I will have to touch upon God Slayers and how the first and third main characters had to deal with them and appeasing the irate gods that hurt mankind with their exploits, respectively.


----------



## Puppetry (Dec 18, 2014)

I would go with the first because it has the least amount of paranormal/fantasy romance built into the premise. I used to read a lot of that  without enjoying much of it, for reasons already stated: the magic/action plot feels like a platform for the romance and not a well-developed story element. Without the romance, I like the second one's core concept a bit more, as well as the theme of wisdom. 

As for music being difficult to capture through writing... I agree, but I also read a fair deal of Album/Song reviews on various sites, and I've always enjoyed their descriptive language. I would suggest incorporating a bit of that in your writing, as well as learning some musical nomenclature. As a musician, nothing irks me more than someone tossing around terms they barely understand. It speaks of laziness and a lack of genuine interest in what you're writing about.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Dec 18, 2014)

Yooo.  Puppetry. It's good to see you elsewhere.  

Do you aspire to be a shiny novelist?


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 18, 2014)

Puppetry said:


> I would go with the first because it has the least amount of paranormal/fantasy romance built into the premise. I used to read a lot of without enjoying much of it, for reasons already stated: the magic/action plot feels like platform for the romance and not a well-developed story element. Without the romance, I like the second one's core concept a bit more, as well as the theme of wisdom.
> 
> As for music being difficult to capture through writing... I agree, but I also read a fair deal of Album/Song reviews on various sites, and I've always enjoyed their descriptive language. I would suggest incorporating a bit of that in your writing, as well as learning some musical nomenclature. As a musician, nothing irks me more than someone tossing around terms they barely understand. It speaks of laziness and a lack of genuine interest in what you're writing about.



Well, I knew this would be a divergence point. However, the first and second story are dependent on the romance, otherwise there would be no plot. If I scrapped to bare bones, the second story would resemble Titanic... Basically, a guy is in an arranged marriage and a lonely girl falls in love with him. Their love for each other is what rescues them from their demise. In the girl's case, her death and in the guy's case, a miserable life for himself and the world at large. In the first, romance is more passive. Instead, it is what drives the main character, who would otherwise want a normal life, to fight and embrace his supernatural heritage... The first one is actually the most "balanced" of all stories and still manages to put romance at the forefront. It also shows an interesting way of reading into the history of ancient Europe and Spain's place on it. In a way, it's not that the magic and action plot is a platform for romance... Rather, it's the opposite. The romance is a platform for the magic, adventure and action. It is the driving force that allows the plot to keep flowing freely.

Curiously enough, it's the _third_ story that features very little romance. Instead, it focuses on friendship and chasing your dreams even more so than the first two stories and it's narrative revolves about not wanting to "fit in" but wanting to stand out and be "unique".

I wouldn't worry about the musical problems in the third story. I have my music pretty well and didn't throw stuff around. 

In a way, the third story is the inspiration I needed to put the three stories together. An Xmas gift of sort I guess...


----------



## ~Avant~ (Dec 19, 2014)

Would you guys be interested in sharing full synopsis' of each others stories? We could probably absorb and bounce some ideas off of each other.

I'm talking Great Walls of text, type of synopsis' here. Go in as much depth and detail as you can.


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 19, 2014)

I'd love to... Wait a sec while I finish my food...


----------



## ~Avant~ (Dec 19, 2014)

If your synopsis doesn't force you to write at least three whole posts, its not long or detailed enough lol


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 19, 2014)

About two and a half. The third one's still getting rebuilt. That and tonight's Jump Festa and FFXV's talk show!

I literally have 6 tabs open in NND, 8 ready to jump at GameFaqs with my account at any given time and three ready for an speculation thread on FFXV.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Dec 19, 2014)

Lol I'm going to watch the live stream too. Make sure your tabs dont close accidentally


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 20, 2014)

I wanted to share this with you guys. It's from Reddit, the post is . That's yours truly asking a question. For those who don't want to venture to Reddit, here's the transcript:



			
				Your Lord and Savior: Cardboard Tube Knight said:
			
		

> Been working on a re-write of an earlier novel and one of the changes I made was more mixing of the characters using their powers for mundane, everyday thing.
> 
> The novel is set on modern day Earth, except for people know about the existence of Angels and Demons. One of the characters uses telekinesis to grab her cellphone off the bed. Writing this in first person has been a bit of a challenge and I'm stuck, though.
> 
> I'm just looking for ideas to help me brainstorm.





			
				1644m1 said:
			
		

> I absolutely loved your post, partly because I wrote a short story a couple of years ago about an advanced being who exists as thought and imagination, who commits a serious crime and is sentenced to a biological human body (the worst sentence such a being can receive). He has to learn the basics of motor function and all of the other things that we learned as infants, but as an advanced form of intelligence, and the writing gave me a chance to try to describe the learning process from the ground up. Our brains grow and advance on pace with our biological bodies, but how would it be to possess such a body as a living entity far more advanced than a human? Anyway, that's a digression -- sorry!
> 
> My thoughts are that you need to try to imagine would it would really be like. Since you're inventing something, or at least describing something that most likely only exists in fiction, that'll be tough. A good starting point, I think, is the brain itself, since you're talking about an extra capability within the brain. As adults we can't remember what it was like learning how to control muscles and speech, and how that felt, but that's similar to what you need to do here, if I understand your problem correctly. Teleknesis, to a practitioner, would be accomplished based on feel. You're trying to describe a basic brain function that a character probably grew up with, and we can't even do that ourselves because our brains relegated learned functions to the background as learned, automatic functions.
> From my reading of people who have lost limbs and have been given electronic replacements, there is a thought pattern that controls nerves, which in turn controls muscles by sending electronic signals down the nerves. If you're trying to be realistic, I'd start there. That's how I viewed my advanced being sentenced to a human body.
> ...



This is probably some of the best specific writing advice I've gotten and I am passing it onto you.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Dec 23, 2014)

Its a very good piece of advice


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 23, 2014)

I would say it's one of the better pieces of advice I've gotten.


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 25, 2014)

~Avant~ said:


> Would you guys be interested in sharing full synopsis' of each others stories? We could probably absorb and bounce some ideas off of each other.
> 
> I'm talking Great Walls of text, type of synopsis' here. Go in as much depth and detail as you can.




As promised, one wall of text synopsis for my first (chronologically) work... Whose name is, well, in my sig... Which is pretty obvious...

Approximately 1000 years ago, the world found itself under a dire threat. Beasts, monsters, witches and gods roamed the Earth and magic was abundant, with people drawing upon it's power for many uses and combating supernatural threats that their bodies couldn't. Many lived in harmony with the supernatural, while others did not. However, the world was a nice place to live in, and freedom and prosperity reigned the land... However, life as it was known back then was interrupted when one day, the powerful rejected this...

Having attempted to rid the world of the supernatural, many of these turned to immensely powerful warriors with a distaste of the supernatural. Among the strongest were dragon and god slayers, who attempted to vanquish the supernatural with their unrivaled powers.

Desperate to find a solution to their woes, humans and other species turned to the gods, who, in an effort to fight against their demise with the will of humans, they in turn requested help from young, beautiful and highly skilled souls of high social and moral standing and were strong believers in them and recruited them to fight off the threat, bestowing their blessing upon a large amount of weapons.

In the end, the threat was suppressed, but the supernatural went into hiding and gradually dwindled over the ages until it completely disappeared in 1912 with the sinking of the Titanic. However, the weapons of the mighty empowered souls who would still respond to the call of certain descendants of those, for they were descendants of the heroes of legend who took a holy mission upon themselves

Amaranth Graves is a normal 16 year old in New Zealand... Or not so normal... He's actually pretty popular due to his looks and unnatural ability to juggle school, clubs and family life.

But that would change one day...

After being bailed out of a question by his older sister asking for help with decorations for a celebration in her class, Amaranth and his friends end up in a lifestyle mall, celebrating summer vacations will be in two weeks. As they eat, a gigantic stone lummox attacks the place and everyone runs away, only for Amaranth to stay as the giant approaches him. However, he is interrupted by a blonde girl with a longsword attacking him before being promptly knocked down. Though not unconscious, she's unable to recover in time. Amaranth then, in a rush of adrenaline, grabs her sword and stabs the beast in the heart, causing it to dissipate into dust. As the girl recovers, she reveals her name as Sol and tells him that she's come for him, as he, just like her, descends from a well known hero... Amaranth is then told he descends from El Cid, Spanish Hero King, crusader and the wielder of legacy confectrix firebrand Tizona.

In confusion, Amaranth leaves the place, telling her she must be mistaken, and heads home. Next day, after coming back from school, he finds that Sol has somehow met his family, most of which are thankful that a girl has expressed interest in their son, much to Amaranth's chagrin. After insisting on talking to her alone, he takes her to the yard, where he tells her that she should leave him alone as he has no interest in what she says. He eventually dismisses her through the front door and insists he doesn't wants to deal with either of his parents. His older sister, Amy, tells him she supports him and also feels something fishy about Sol.

During nighttime, strange noises can be heard in Amaranth's house. Sol, who was passing by, stops by and sneaks in, only to see that Amy is training with a fencing foil and showing the same superhuman prowess she and Amaranth have, and even though she remains silent, Amy eventually discovers her and fights her off, telling her to leave her brother alone. Sol retorts that she believes the reason she's telling her off is because she's jealous nobody came for her instead, and taunts her by telling her proudly that she'll never be as good as her brother. Amy shows her how wrong she is by revealing she knows magic and paralyzes her. She goes in for the kill, but the arrival of her parents cuts her short and Sol escapes.

Next day, Amaranth attends school as usual, only to be surprised by Sol, who now dons highly exclusive clothing and charmed the whole school with her beauty, talent and personality, much to his initial horror. Upon talking to her, she tells him that if he won't go with her, then she should at least thank him for having saved her by being of use to him, and presents him with a lot of homework and reports that Amaranth had forgotten, together with having rearranged his Club schedule to relieve his stress and made reservations at a  high class restaurant for lunch... She also reveals she's made a breakfast for him she has ready in the Cafeteria before classes start. With the whole school having surrounded them in the school yard, Sol expresses her gratitude again, bowing solemnly at him before kissing him before everyone and leaving, telling him she'll wait him inside. The school reacts in joy, agony and jealousy as they saw the most popular guy and girl in the school kiss.

While initially confused, he relents eventually during breakfast, which much to his surprise, is a banquet of sorts, and with everyone watching the two of them for a while. However, upon calming down a bit, she tells him that if she leaves and he doesn't accepts to leave with her, things might get complicated for him. Amaranth asks what complicated means, but Sol replies that she herself can't say much and asks he remember the last few days. During class, he recalls the encounter with the giant, and wonders if he had to do something with it, recalling how the giant looked at him before Sol saved him by blindsiding him. When the teacher finds him spacing off again, Sol defuses the question he asks Amaranth, prompting an amazed reaction from the class, a relieved one from Amaranth himself and a frown from a certain student.

The student, a girl which Amaranth had a crush on but could never confess to, Selene, finds him once they're out of class in the hallway and asks what he thinks of Sol. When he replies that she's useful, she replies that Sol is not who he believes she is and leaves, confusing Amaranth more. Amaranth's friends tell him that they'll be going for lunch, but Amaranth turns them down, telling them that he'll be going for a lunch together with Sol, causing all three of them to cheer for him.


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 25, 2014)

Once in the , Sol tells Amaranth who she is. When she reveals that she came from Spain and descends from El Cid's loyal knight, Martin Antonilez and wields the legendary sword Colada. She goes over the specifics of "heroic descendants", magic, mythological beasts (or as they're called, immortal beasts) & how she was sent from her home in Northern Catalonia to look for him so as to be able to initiate him into the Enoseos (The Union in Greek), which is a group of young legendary weapon (known as confector or confectrix, or destroyer in Latin) wielders across the world. Amaranth starts feeling thrilled at the idea, but tells Sol he'll have to think about it, to which she replies that she respects that and still wishes to remain so as to be of help to him like their ancestors did. He agrees and they eventually leave the restaurant. While leaving, Amaranth comes across his friends, who'll be having lunch at the restaurant. One of his friends, Aston, asks him how his date went, only for Amaranth to reply that it really wasn't a date, but that it was good anyways. (Warning: Aston will become important in the second and main story)

Near sundown, upon returning home, Amaranth and Sol see another giant ravaging a park and apparently about to smash a little boy. Sol saves him by attempting to hold it back but she says she's unable to use her full power in that place and ends up being sent flying. She gives the sword to Amaranth, who attempts to fend the beast off with it to no avail until he throws the sword at him causing it to explode into vines and thorns that pierce the giant from the inside out. Afterwards, he reassures the boy that everything will be fine and Sol tells him to not go out on his own for a while. He thanks the two of them for having saved him and Amaranth tells him to go home since it's almost sundown. After sending him off, Sol goes to retrieve her sword and they leave. Amaranth says that she's a very brave person for having saved both him and that child and wishes he would be more like her, but is unsure because he's never ventured beyond the city except for vacations and a summer camp. and tells her that he also owes her for having saved his life the first day they met and invites her over for dinner.

Shortly after dinner, which Sol prepared with his mother and sister, a news flash covers an unknown explosion somewhere in Cashel street. Amaranth tells his family he'll be taking Sol home just in case. Actually, they go to Cashel street, where they find a rampaging army of giants not unlike the one they found before. Sol tells him she'll be going all out this time, and manages to mow down a large group of them, but when Amaranth is found by a giant and about to be hit, Sol takes the blow, but it still sends the two of them flying and both are too hurt to do anything. They're, however, saved by the arrival of a black haired woman with a warg chained to her wrist, who sends him off to wipe out the remaining giants. She eventually reveals herself as Sasha, a Romanian beast tamer and heroic descendant and tells Amaranth that his domain, just like her own, is not limited to swords and tells him that she has to return to Romania soon, but hopes he'll visit soon. She's able to heal them using magic before she retreats into the woods. Amaranth and Sol, albeit beat, are able to move now. Together, they make it to the closest place they can find, that is, his home. Realizing neither of them has the energy to walk much further left and that it's already past 3:49 in the morning, Amaranth lets her sleep with him as he collapses in his bed. Sol, unable to move further to set up a place in the floor, asks if he'd be fine with her sleeping on the bed, which he's alright with, telling her to sleep on the free side of the bed he isn't taking. She promptly collapses by his side, both of their vestments- her combat armor and his clothes- are bloodied and covered in dirt and sweat, but they do not care as they are too weak to move any further and their body warmth soothes their aching bones. As they lay there, Amaranth asks Sol what that was, to which she replies she doesn't knows, as she's hasn't faced something like that before. When he asks her if she thinks they'll be fine, she replies that she isn't sure, but that whatever they face, they'll face together.

End disc 1. Updates later.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Dec 25, 2014)

You have my interest. It almost reminds me of a light novel


----------



## crazymtf (Dec 31, 2014)

And with the new year comes a new short story! Right before January 1st 2015 I'll give you "Another Day at the Office". If you love horror/thriller pick this sweet little title up for 99 cents. ENJOY and HAPPY NEW YEAR! 



If anyone wants to read it for Free for exchange for a review on Goodreads/amazon (Bad/good/inthemiddle) I'll be glad to send a PDF copy  Thanks!


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 1, 2015)

The ideas are flowing but as usual work isn't. Need to learn how to cut down on dialogue.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jan 1, 2015)

When you guys aren't writing and are just thinking about your book and you discover a plothole within the story, how do you guys come about to fixing it? What if it changes your entire story?


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 1, 2015)

I've discarded drafts if they were too full of plotholes. I try to run a tight ship but there is only so much you can do.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 2, 2015)

I've been kind of thinking about side projects and the like. I kind of got to wondering if anyone here was writing anything that didn't fall under the science fiction and fantasy umbrella?


----------



## Nordstrom (Jan 2, 2015)

I did try writing a premise that I was going to use, but it was to petition for a K drama aimed at guys... Not sure whether to even bother using it anymore.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 2, 2015)

Don't think I've ever attempted to write something that's not fantasy, or horror. I have no interest.


----------



## crazymtf (Jan 2, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I've been kind of thinking about side projects and the like. I kind of got to wondering if anyone here was writing anything that didn't fall under the science fiction and fantasy umbrella?



Drama. Kind of comedy mix with horror too.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 2, 2015)

I just wonder. When I was in college they didn't allow heavy fantasy elements in any of our writing. So I had to do it a lot for that stuff. 

As a dick move I wrote a story about the Crucifixion so I could cry religious injustice if they tried to call it fantasy.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 3, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> When you guys aren't writing and are just thinking about your book and you discover a plothole within the story, how do you guys come about to fixing it? What if it changes your entire story?



I think about if I can fix it or explain it within the system or characters, or adapt or broaden the story to encompass it.  if none of that works, I'll throw it out.  If it's something I just can't fix, but can't throw away either, I'll try to lampshade it later.  

I try very hard to avoid plot holes, and to keep everything sensible, and I'm constantly going over stories and plotlines to make sure there isn't some cheap and easy answer to a situation.  Pre-planning is what keeps you from writing yourself into a corner.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 3, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I've been kind of thinking about side projects and the like. I kind of got to wondering if anyone here was writing anything that didn't fall under the science fiction and fantasy umbrella?



Yes.  I have action adventure that's non-fantasy planned.  Romance.  Children's stories.  Tragedy.  Comedy is the biggest thing I do, really, and it bleeds into everything I do.  Fantasy/sci fi is just the most fun to talk about.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 3, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I just wonder. When I was in college they didn't allow heavy fantasy elements in any of our writing. So I had to do it a lot for that stuff.
> 
> As a dick move I wrote a story about the Crucifixion so I could cry religious injustice if they tried to call it fantasy.



Fuck academic creative writing class bullshit.  I got like a D in creative writing class. (I'm not much for creative nonfiction or scriptwriting or non spur of the moment poetry. )


----------



## Nordstrom (Jan 3, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I just wonder. When I was in college they didn't allow heavy fantasy elements in any of our writing. So I had to do it a lot for that stuff.
> 
> As a dick move I wrote a story about the Crucifixion so I could cry religious injustice if they tried to call it fantasy.



Crucifixion is not even fantasy. It's a well documented historical phenomenon. Hell, sword fights, the crusades, even the Trojan war to some extent, were all historical with just fantasy to top it off...

More often than not, if I don't write fantasy, I'm forced to indulge in writing scorcher romances with lot of action... Mostly since, as I've mentioned before, romantic novels for young men in the west are pretty rare... Only Japan and, strangely enough, SINGAPORE (yes, you heard that right, Singapore) seem to have romantic media aimed at men that isn't mostly comedy or action... Korea and Taiwan fail miserably, even more so than the west, and the less said about China, the better. Russia seems to have some, but just like China, it's mostly historical stuff. Europe, namely France, appears to be my best bet at it.

No mentions of Latin America, which is as bad as Korea... Argentina and Violetta be damned.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 3, 2015)

Why are we supposed to stare in disbelief at Singapore?


----------



## Risyth (Jan 3, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> When you guys aren't writing and are just thinking about your book and you discover a plothole within the story, how do you guys come about to fixing it? What if it changes your entire story?


*There's always,* _always_* a way to cover plotholes without erasing anything. The longer you wait or the more complicated your plot is, though, the harder it'll be.*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 6, 2015)

I came across this pretty awesome writing prompt on Reddit: 



> [WP] There are no stars, no sun in the sky. Fire invisibly produces heat. Light is a very rare element which can be found buried in the earth. The ancient art of extraction is perilous and almost lost. You are one of the last of the lightminers.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 6, 2015)

Some editing process stuff, just posting this for comparison's sake. 




			
				Original said:
			
		

> My dress isn’t long enough to protect my knees from the threadbare office carpet. Poor choice of wardrobe on my part. My back’s pressing hard against the underside of the heavy wooden desk so that when I crane my neck I can . If I slip out now I’m caught for sure. So, I keep myself curled into a tight ball and scroll through Twitter and Facebook on my phone to drown out Mom’s fianc?, Tim, and the woman who is obviously-not-my-mother getting hot and heavy on the table up the aisle.
> 
> I catch a glimpse of her lying on her back with that salon-perfect hair dangling over the edge of the table and the tip of her nose sticking out just above her bangs. Tim is hovering over her, sweaty and red, with an expression that suggests he’s pulled a muscle.






			
				New said:
			
		

> My argyle pattern dress with the big bow in the back is one of the best dresses in all of Creation. But right now that cute dress is letting this threadbare office carpet shred my knees.  I’m pressing hard against the underside of the desk where I’m hiding, grinding the knot in that bow into the middle of my lower back. So this wardrobe choice, and really the fact I’m here at all are, are signs that I, Lissette Metzger, have poor impulse control.
> 
> I already had enough to prove that Tim, Mom’s fiance, was cheating before I followed him in here. The chance to snoop was too good to pass up, but there’s no way I could sneak out now. The woman who is obviously-not-my-mother is chest-down on a table that’s facing the only exit. So, I keep myself curled up and scroll through Twitter and Facebook on my phone. Most of all I try not to breathe.
> 
> ...






			
				Original said:
			
		

> Mom’s got a history of guys with secret cell phones and apartments that she can’t go to. Tim had been more subtle than that; letting his eyes linger on my thighs just a bit too long when he sees me in my cheerleading uniform or the little comments he made here and there about me and other girls.






			
				New said:
			
		

> Mom’s got a history of guys with secret cell phones and apartments that she can’t go to. Tim’s more subtle than that; letting his eyes linger on my thighs just a bit too long when he sees me in my cheerleading uniform or the comment about how I had “my mother’s ass”. He doesn’t scare me, but lately, when he’s spent the night and I’ve gone to take a shower, I’ve found the door mysteriously unlocked afterwards.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 6, 2015)

*Are you asking our input on the best version? If not, I'm confused.*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 6, 2015)

Just posting writing snippets. The original is clearly inferior and it doesn't flow as well. While the new stuff might be only a few hours old, it reads much more like I'm wanting it to.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 6, 2015)

*So do we talk about how inferior the original was? I'm not very good at this exchange of ideas stuff.... *


----------



## crazymtf (Jan 6, 2015)

What are some inspirations for your work guys/gals?

Exterminators series - Gantz would be a huge inspiration, but also focusing more on a team, a family. I always loved the idea of juggling multiple main characters and giving them a personal background outside of just fighting. 

Sparks - Infamous for the superhero side of the story. Loved electricity and Infamous made me look at a power being used in so many ways that you'd need only one power. The human side was a little mix of my father's background (fighting cancer when I was a baby) and the idea of mortality at how we deal with it. 

Experiments Sega - Mostly all comes down to control. I always feel people are in control from others. Always being hunted down, even if it's not in public. So that's how this idea formed. 

Killing Your Boss - Funny enough this was a joke. It was suppose to be about my boss at Target being a crazy killer. However it morphed into a story I really wanted to deal. I feel to many horror rely on jump scares or gore. I liked to mix those two but mostly rely on the psychological side of horror. 

Sons - First attempt at a more indepth look at raising a kid and how the end results with differ. 

So yeah, how about you guys?


----------



## Risyth (Jan 6, 2015)

*I have no inspirations. *


----------



## crazymtf (Jan 6, 2015)

Of course you do. You can't just make something up out of thin air. Even if the inspirations are from your own doing or something you watched, there has to be something that clicked that made you want to write. 

Funny fact. I picked the name Sparks for my main character because at work I was trying to think of a name when the machine next to me began grinding gears, and sparks flew everywhere. That's how I settled on Sparks haha.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 6, 2015)

I named my female protagonist, Eridaltia, and I still don't know where I got that from. Probably phonics.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 7, 2015)

Some of you might fight this interesting speaking of female protagonists: 





> We have a huge problem with how we portray women. And it is not just the fantasy [genre]. It is like our entire culture is steeped in this. I think of it as cultural poison. Very few people willfully propagate it. But what happens is that you soak it up - gently, from when you are a little kid and you watch [for example] these Disney princess flicks. And you go: 'Oh, that is what a woman wants, that is what a woman is. She's kind of vapid and then some guy saves her, right?' You absorb these things before you are capable of rational thought. In the same way that if someone puts bad food in front of you as a child, you will eat it, even though it's poisoned. And then you get that inside of you, and when it comes time to write, it naturally kind of comes out of you, and the whole thing perpetuates itself. You don't have to look any further than Tolkien. I love Tolkien. [But] who has read The Hobbit? How many women are there in The Hobbit? Who has not realized until this moment that there are no women in The Hobbit? Isn't that fucking creepy? [Tolkien] was one of the founders, and people followed in his footsteps (...) And he did not do it out of malice, he was also following the tradition. But the fact remains: it's here. This doesn't make us bad people, as long as we acknowledge that we have soaked something up (...) and do our best not to vomit it back onto other people.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 7, 2015)

crazymtf said:


> Of course you do. You can't just make something up out of thin air. Even if the inspirations are from your own doing or something you watched, there has to be something that clicked that made you want to write.
> 
> Funny fact. I picked the name Sparks for my main character because at work I was trying to think of a name when the machine next to me began grinding gears, and sparks flew everywhere. That's how I settled on Sparks haha.


*Well, there's always God. (Okay, I'm being a bit stubborn.)

I literally make up names on the spot. Sparks sounds really cool, though: proof simplicity is usually underrated. *



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Some of you might fight this interesting speaking of female protagonists:



*Normally write them depending on their character, not their gender, is what I'd say. There are some cases where you have to consider their gender, but it's ill-advised to keep making the reader aware of the fact that they're a girl on purpose.*


----------



## crazymtf (Jan 7, 2015)

I make up names too but no inspirations to your creations? Crazyness. 

Got another short story being published in two-three days. Trying to get it free because I want a few of mine free so people can check them out. See if they like my style, and then they could buy the big novels haha.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 8, 2015)

My inspirations:

One story - I can't find a good action book.  I'll write one.

Most Other Stories - This premise hasn't been done to my liking.  How can I do this better?

Many More Stories - This was a good idea that was poorly executed, undermined, or ruined.  Let me fix that for you.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 9, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *Well, there's always God. (Okay, I'm being a bit stubborn.)
> 
> I literally make up names on the spot. Sparks sounds really cool, though: proof simplicity is usually underrated. *
> 
> ...



For a long while the formula for making a "strong female character" was making them a man that basically had breasts and a vagina. We're only just now starting to have a discussion about not treating men as the default setting for a character. There are biological and physical differences between men and women, treating them equal isn't about writing as if the differences don't exist.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 9, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> For a long while the formula for making a "strong female character" was making them a man that basically had breasts and a vagina. We're only just now starting to have a discussion about not treating men as the default setting for a character. There are biological and physical differences between men and women, treating them equal isn't about writing as if the differences don't exist.



*I see where you're coming from because I'm pretty...familiar with this formula, unfortunately. Even the most extreme tomgirls shouldn't just be males in a female shell. But at the end of the day, there's no solid line here. The characters' characters are always more important than their genders, or else you're on the other spectrum of that back-in-the-day talk, where females and males are stereotypical. 

Not to say you can't have a female and male character with the same personality act differently because of their gender, but it'll largely be from forces outside of their control--social norms, for example. And if you stress those differences too much, it might make it seem like you're trying to hard to write as the opposite sex. Women and men are different in many ways, but they aren't different species.*




> I make up names too but no inspirations to your creations? Crazyness.
> 
> Got another short story being published in two-three days. Trying to get it free because I want a few of mine free so people can check them out. See if they like my style, and then they could buy the big novels haha.


*I'm pretty creative when it comes to names...and if you know me, I hate to be "inspired". The others here can vouch for that. 

That sounds cool--how well have those free stories sold? Well, not "sold" per se, but...how many have you gotten out?*


----------



## Nordstrom (Jan 9, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Why are we supposed to stare in disbelief at Singapore?



It's the last place in Asia that you would expect to have a thriving media industry... And the only one that can compete with South Korea, Taiwan and Japan.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Some of you might fight this interesting speaking of female protagonists:



I make characters, not stereotypes. I always try to put characteristics from both genders in all my characters, balanced enough so that guys and girls alike can identify with the character regardless of their gender. Some guys may feel more like a female character, who knows?

One of the most obvious ones, I have characters of either gender that blush easily and two of the protagonists are that way. Also, both are more than willing to slap their girlfriends if they do something completely stupid and the first is more than willing to pummel his big sis if she starts scaring his love interests away.

One of the love interests is knightly for sure, but she's also housewife material and doesn't want to be much beyond retreating to the countryside...

Is that too contrived for you?



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> For a long while the formula for making a "strong female character" was making them a man that basically had breasts and a vagina. We're only just now starting to have a discussion about not treating men as the default setting for a character. There are biological and physical differences between men and women, treating them equal isn't about writing as if the differences don't exist.



Differences exist, but I'd be damned if someone tells me there's no equivalent or it's impossible.

You see, the problem is that attempting to circumvent those norms often means the women has an advantage or is able to succeed with a handicap... Naturally, I oppose this sort of stuff... Which is why if I have them act different, it's because of the aforementioned society snooping their noses all over the place (like a certain idiot named after an OP character does with my rep) or because their personality.

If a knight is going to kiss a girls hand and showering her with compliments, there's no way I won't have a girl knight doing the same to a guy.

If the hat fits you, that is!


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 10, 2015)

Here's a cool video about women in fiction.

[YOUTUBE]uqtNSdDFGBM[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 11, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Here's a cool video about women in fiction.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]uqtNSdDFGBM[/YOUTUBE]



From what I've seen of the show BMO doesn't really identify as one gender, though I haven't seen this video I noticed that.


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 11, 2015)

Nordstrom said:


> Also, both are more than willing to slap their girlfriends if they do something completely stupid and the first is more than willing to pummel his big sis if she starts scaring his love interests away.



Clearly violence against women truly marks out a modern day feminist man.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 11, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *I see where you're coming from because I'm pretty...familiar with this formula, unfortunately. Even the most extreme tomgirls shouldn't just be males in a female shell. But at the end of the day, there's no solid line here. The characters' characters are always more important than their genders, or else you're on the other spectrum of that back-in-the-day talk, where females and males are stereotypical.
> 
> Not to say you can't have a female and male character with the same personality act differently because of their gender, but it'll largely be from forces outside of their control--social norms, for example. And if you stress those differences too much, it might make it seem like you're trying to hard to write as the opposite sex. Women and men are different in many ways, but they aren't different species.*



The only difference between two different species is years of evolution. While we're all human,  social evolution has taken the behavior that's expected of us in directions depending on cultures. Religious laws have bled into secular society and even things that started out as money making ventures (razors for women's legs for instance) have become embedded in our gender norms.  

if you're writing in the real world, like me, then you have to take these things into account even if the character doesn't largely subscribe to them. If you're making things up and using a made up world, then by all means create your own gender norms, but that's kind of the problem we see here. Take Game of Thrones for instance: this is a world that exists without a moon, that experiences hard winters that last for years, that has dragons and some forms of magic, but when you look at the cultures they're largely influenced by our world. The gender norms are just copied and pasted. 

That's how it is for a lot of fantasy and it doesn't make much sense. 




Nordstrom said:


> I make characters, not stereotypes. I always try to put characteristics from both genders in all my characters, balanced enough so that guys and girls alike can identify with the character regardless of their gender. Some guys may feel more like a female character, who knows?
> 
> One of the most obvious ones, I have characters of either gender that blush easily and two of the protagonists are that way. Also, both are more than willing to slap their girlfriends if they do something completely stupid and the first is more than willing to pummel his big sis if she starts scaring his love interests away.
> 
> ...



I think the problem arises when we assign something like "violence" as a men trait. Violence is a violent person trait. I think it's just as sexist to call a woman who beats people up for stepping out of line "manly" as it is to call a man who likes flowers "girly". We tend to train men from birth to resolve conflict with violence because it's seen as a manly trait, but I don't think young baby boys come out wanting to kick and hit things and I do think that if a girl is exposed to the right stimulus she will be violent too. 

The point of that guy's speaking is more about the idea that we allow fantasy to ignore women and that it still does or that it uses them as window dressing. Sure things are different now, but there is still a large community where you can write a whole book with one female character in it that acts like a dude and that's considered enough. 




Nordstrom said:


> Differences exist, but I'd be damned if someone tells me there's no equivalent or it's impossible.
> 
> You see, the problem is that attempting to circumvent those norms often means the women has an advantage or is able to succeed with a handicap... Naturally, I oppose this sort of stuff... Which is why if I have them act different, it's because of the aforementioned society snooping their noses all over the place (like a certain idiot named after an OP character does with my rep) or because their personality.



Characters frequently succeed with handicaps...Harry Potter wins despite being just a child; Alice escapes Wonderland despite being a young girl who is all alone; Batman beats Superman despite being a rich guy in a rubber suit.; Buffy stops a handful of apocalypses; a tiny weaponless Firefly class ship brings the entire Alliance to their knees; the plucky rebels destroy the Death Star...I can do this all day.

Fiction, especially fantasy fiction, has made its money writing underdogs that take down the big guy. Real life loves underdogs too. Even then, in a world with magic and other stuff like that which I'm assuming you have because you've said so, the advantages afforded by either gender, unless magic is tied to gender, is negligible. It doesn't matter that Vin in Mistborn is 110 pounds soaking wet when she takes on a 250 Steel Inquisitor, she's got the magical output of ten of them and can stand against them one on one with relative ease. 



Nordstrom said:


> If a knight is going to kiss a girls hand and showering her with compliments, there's no way I won't have a girl knight doing the same to a guy.
> 
> If the hat fits you, that is!



I think you think of this too much in terms of just romance and less in the wider view of culture. Gender relations and sexuality are just one part of the whole thing. There's stuff that doesn't even really have to do with the dating and the like. Things as general as how society views two people who do the exact same things, but are different genders. It doesn't mean there's any relationship involved. It could even mean cases like in Breaking Bad when the wife character is shunned by the fanbase for essentially being responsible and protecting her family.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 11, 2015)

> if you're writing in the real world, like me, then you have to take these things into account even if the character doesn't largely subscribe to them. If you're making things up and using a made up world, then by all means create your own gender norms, but that's kind of the problem we see here. Take Game of Thrones for instance: this is a world that exists without a moon, that experiences hard winters that last for years, that has dragons and some forms of magic, but when you look at the cultures they're largely influenced by our world. The gender norms are just copied and pasted.
> 
> That's how it is for a lot of fantasy and it doesn't make much sense.



I'm always confused when women get to be highly magical in a fantasyverse, and they're still viewed as second to men, or weaker.  If 52% of the population can manipulate the fabric of reality and throw fire and lightening from their hands since the dawn of humanity, then it doesn't make sense to have a male dominated culture where women are subservient, because there's no point in history where men had more importance or power.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 11, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I'm always confused when women get to be highly magical in a fantasyverse, and they're still viewed as second to men, or weaker.  If 52% of the population can manipulate the fabric of reality and throw fire and lightening from their hands since the dawn of humanity, then it doesn't make sense to have a male dominated culture where women are subservient, because there's no point in history where men had more importance or power.



I think it was Wheel of Time that had the women magic users had the ability to not go crazy from overuse of magic and it made their gender roles different. That's the kind of example that makes sense.


----------



## crazymtf (Jan 11, 2015)

So women go crazy for no reason normally but in a series were able to resist going crazy over using too much magic? Crazy!


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 11, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I think it was Wheel of Time that had the women magic users had the ability to not go crazy from overuse of magic and it made their gender roles different. That's the kind of example that makes sense.



That's the kind of example that takes it's own system into account when building it's world and characters.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 11, 2015)

There is a race in my story, the Isharanag, where magic is affected by sex. The men absorb magic and the women use the magic. The men can, with training, use some of the magic but never as fully and effectively as the women can. They're pretty much the only race divided like that.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 12, 2015)

I have one world where magical ability is more or less split evenly between everyone.  So both sexes are more or less equal, and individual ability is ranked more on a skill based merit system that a patriarchy or matriarchy.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 12, 2015)

My rules for magic are based on the source. To use the Isharanag again, their magic is taken from enemies or ambient sources.  The standard practice for magic in my world is contract with a deity.  Though there are those who make contracts with lesser spirits or demons for magic as well.  The Isharanag are rather unique.


----------



## Krory (Jan 12, 2015)

crazymtf said:


> So women go crazy for no reason normally but in a series were able to resist going crazy over using too much magic? Crazy!



Eh, things get set right like three books in - one of the women accidentally "fixes magic" so the men can use it without going crazy again and are innately infinitely more powerful than the women with magic (which was the reason they would go crazy).

It's pretty much as dumb as it sounds. If you can even get past the typical "Main character has his own harem of women" thing by that point.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 13, 2015)

In eleven more days I'll be going to the first Pax South ever, really excited. I'm just kind of sad there won't be more writing and comic related stuff there.


----------



## crazymtf (Jan 14, 2015)

^There's a decent section set apart. When I went to east pax there was a good 10-12 tables for artist/writers. Was very cool, and this was before I really even self published stuff.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 19, 2015)

crazymtf said:


> ^There's a decent section set apart. When I went to east pax there was a good 10-12 tables for artist/writers. Was very cool, and this was before I really even self published stuff.



I'll keep an eye out for that. I'm not sure it will be the same down here with this being the first year and all. 

Also this is just a really well written article:


----------



## Nordstrom (Jan 21, 2015)

Tyrael said:


> Clearly violence against women truly marks out a modern day feminist man.



It's the kind of "tsundere" violence you'd expect of females, just with the genders inverted. Plus, some other girls get violent too, but not with him.

The point is obvious... No gender is safe from getting a slap or a kick in their family jewels from either gender...

Peanuts or bubble gum, they're all fair game.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I think the problem arises when we assign something like "violence" as a men trait. Violence is a violent person trait. I think it's just as sexist to call a woman who beats people up for stepping out of line "manly" as it is to call a man who likes flowers "girly". We tend to train men from birth to resolve conflict with violence because it's seen as a manly trait, but I don't think young baby boys come out wanting to kick and hit things and I do think that if a girl is exposed to the right stimulus she will be violent too.
> 
> The point of that guy's speaking is more about the idea that we allow fantasy to ignore women and that it still does or that it uses them as window dressing. Sure things are different now, but there is still a large community where you can write a whole book with one female character in it that acts like a dude and that's considered enough.



Which is why my characters are all a mixed bag... If it weren't for me telling you so and their chest shape being different (shape, because their BWH ratio is pretty similar), you wouldn't be able to tell the gender of any of my characters...

I don't really know what you'd be referring to with "acting like a dude". If you mean being stereotypically male, then you run out of luck by reading the Prologue of any story I write. My guys break down and cry, my girls stab their chests to a cliff to hold a guy with their two arms, my guys blush and stutter and kick a girl if she's the one teasing them. My girls will get into a tavern fist fight and spar with each other... None of these are stuff I consider "manly" or "girly" traits. They all have a bit of both genders.



> Characters frequently succeed with handicaps...Harry Potter wins despite being just a child; Alice escapes Wonderland despite being a young girl who is all alone; Batman beats Superman despite being a rich guy in a rubber suit.; Buffy stops a handful of apocalypses; a tiny weaponless Firefly class ship brings the entire Alliance to their knees; the plucky rebels destroy the Death Star...I can do this all day.
> 
> Fiction, especially fantasy fiction, has made its money writing underdogs that take down the big guy. Real life loves underdogs too. Even then, in a world with magic and other stuff like that which I'm assuming you have because you've said so, the advantages afforded by either gender, unless magic is tied to gender, is negligible. It doesn't matter that Vin in Mistborn is 110 pounds soaking wet when she takes on a 250 Steel Inquisitor, she's got the magical output of ten of them and can stand against them one on one with relative ease.



That's why I'm against that... It makes women seem better because they triumphed against all odds or were superior because of their gender. When I write a character, what makes them strong is their personality... Usually, I'll have characters take after their opposite gender parent just to drive the "not gendered" point home.



> I think you think of this too much in terms of just romance and less in the wider view of culture. Gender relations and sexuality are just one part of the whole thing. There's stuff that doesn't even really have to do with the dating and the like. Things as general as how society views two people who do the exact same things, but are different genders. It doesn't mean there's any relationship involved. It could even mean cases like in Breaking Bad when the wife character is shunned by the fanbase for essentially being responsible and protecting her family.



I never shun anybody for doing what they had to do. I try to make characters of the same gender who do the same thing be as likable as possible.

I have only one rule for my characters... Deeds are what's right or wrong, not the person doing them.



Lord Yu said:


> There is a race in my story, the Isharanag, where magic is affected by sex. The men absorb magic and the women use the magic. The men can, with training, use some of the magic but never as fully and effectively as the women can. They're pretty much the only race divided like that.



So men are anti magic and women magic?

Actually, while no power caps exist for either gender, the personality that their gender usually has may affect their initial stats.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 21, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The only difference between two different species is years of evolution. While we're all human,  social evolution has taken the behavior that's expected of us in directions depending on cultures. Religious laws have bled into secular society and even things that started out as money making ventures (razors for women's legs for instance) have become embedded in our gender norms.
> 
> if you're writing in the real world, like me, then you have to take these things into account even if the character doesn't largely subscribe to them. If you're making things up and using a made up world, then by all means create your own gender norms, but that's kind of the problem we see here. Take Game of Thrones for instance: this is a world that exists without a moon, that experiences hard winters that last for years, that has dragons and some forms of magic, but when you look at the cultures they're largely influenced by our world. The gender norms are just copied and pasted.
> 
> That's how it is for a lot of fantasy and it doesn't make much sense.


*But you're using that term, gender norm, incorrectly.
*


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 22, 2015)

At a rough estimate of average chapter size I have near 72000 words. I am definitely not making my goal.  Just over three weeks have passed in my six month timeline. Even if I were to rapidly accelerate the pace I wouldn't make the end of part 1.


----------



## Krory (Jan 22, 2015)

And don't you have like three spin-offs or whatnot you're working on, too?

Shit, mang.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 22, 2015)

I have bunch of spin off stories, yes. 

If only I could just finish something. At the very least, I have an idea where I could this first book. But I have no idea what I would call the book that would pick up after it.  Actually, that title should come to me in five minutes.


----------



## Krory (Jan 22, 2015)

Been ten minutes. Whaddya got?


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 22, 2015)

I don't know. I think I've had some names stashed away somewhere.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 23, 2015)

*Did you find anything? Or would you like some input?*


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 23, 2015)

I'll figure something out. I have to sort out what the plot will be. I'm pretty confident in my naming abilities. I really only meant this story to be two parts. But the splitting of this first part puts a little wrinkle in that. Oh well.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 23, 2015)

*As long as they're closely related, you can have two halves to the first part, right?*


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 23, 2015)

I have a handle on a title I like but it kind of boxes out my female protagonist and is possibly too spoilery.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 23, 2015)

*It can't be as bad as those books that just have the main characters as their titles. 

But spoilers could be a problem, huh. Anyway to say what you want to say while using closely related words? If you're about to spoil the title, to me, chances are it's going to be too big compared to other options.*


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 23, 2015)

As far as spoilers go it's very vague. My primary concern is the boxing out of the female protagonist. Pulling out, it's probably not going to spoil anyone but the crazy.  The first book is called *The Long Dream*. The title I'm kicking around for the second  is _*The Prince and The Puppeteer*_. Love that title, but hate that it doesn't reference the actual female protagonist.


----------



## Krory (Jan 23, 2015)

Sabriel, Lirael, and Abhorsen were all awesome books so you can go screw yourself.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 23, 2015)

I got a new idea for a title. The Great Flower. Doesn't sound punchy but it works.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 23, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> The title I'm kicking around for the second  is _*The Prince and The Puppeteer*_. Love that title, but hate that it doesn't reference the actual female protagonist.


Have a P word to describe female protag?
Prince, Puppet, P----


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 23, 2015)

To me it feels like a third word would throw off the balance. The third book is currently called The Goddess and The King without A Kingdom. Besides, above post, I'm working with that other title for now.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 23, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> I got a new idea for a title. The Great Flower. Doesn't sound punchy but it works.



*It's gotta be punchy. I'd use a bad analogy to try and explain why...but just take my word for it anyway.*


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 23, 2015)

Whatever it will be it will probably need to be ominous.  This is seriously getting my goat.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 23, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> I got a new idea for a title. The Great Flower. Doesn't sound punchy but it works.


Well, then what kind of flower?


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 23, 2015)

The title is a reference to a character named after a flower.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 24, 2015)

The Bloomening.  Bloomencrance.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 24, 2015)

Those sound terrible.


----------



## Krory (Jan 24, 2015)

Are they terrible... or _amazing_?

I'd probably need more details or something to help but for the most part I'm not much help with titles anyway, weakest point.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 24, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> Those sound terrible.



I hoped they will inspire you by bad example.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 24, 2015)

I got a title that I really like now. But it sounds like a children's book. The Great and Terrible Ed.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 24, 2015)

*Tell us more about the book and we can help better. If you want it.

Is spoilers an issue?*


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 27, 2015)

Both titles, refer to an antagonist. 

Actually, I think I'm going with The Great Flower because it can have a split meaning for my story.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 27, 2015)

*Please don't go with The Great Flower. *


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 27, 2015)

You disliking it makes me want to use it even more. 

Might come up with a different title but for now this is what I'm going with.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 27, 2015)

*...welp, it's your title. You have my support. *


----------



## Krory (Jan 27, 2015)

Always a good idea, Yu.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 31, 2015)

Going to try and give this cosmic horror story thing another push. That really is what I want to write, but making something of it that's more than just "giant scary monsters from outer space" has been kind of tough going. I've decided that I need to do something on a smaller scale, kind of like "The Color Out of Space" where there really isn't much in the way of aliens or monsters or even lifeforms ever mentioned.


----------



## Lord Yu (Feb 3, 2015)

I've been ultra productive recently. Probably because I reached the chapters that focus on my favorite character to write.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 3, 2015)

Something about everything recently has given me a little push too. I've been writing and reading a lot more and even having little flashes of ideas about what I want to do next to get to the point that I have everything planned out to. One of the big things for me right now is getting my character voices to sound distinct, been thinking about adding a third narrator.


----------



## Lord Yu (Feb 4, 2015)

I've reached a chapter where I have to retell a myth I told in a previous draft. I really liked the way I did in the previous draft but I can't just copy paste because this time the narrator is different and has less information than the other storyteller.  Last time it was so cool because I ran it almost like a dream sequence and I changed to first person perspective.


----------



## Lord Yu (Feb 4, 2015)

Fuck it, I don't know how I'm going to do it but I'm going to tell that legend exactly the same way I did the last time. It's just too good to change.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Feb 4, 2015)

I don't think I've been here for a while...

I haven't been really writing mah book. It's not that I've had writer's block, it's more along the lines of that I haven't had the motivation to write. I'm stuck at a part of the story where one of my characters tells the MC who's hunting her and why. But I don't like the way it's going on at all. I kind of forced it and I'm thinking of going back to rewrite the entire chapter, but I just don't have the motivation to do it. 

I've been thinking of a lot of things, to be honest: the later books, my fanfiction, this comic I want to start and I have hella work to catch up on with school, like oh my god.

...How have you all been doing?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 7, 2015)

So someone posted this prompt on Reddit: 



> [WP].



And this guy responded:



> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Krory (Feb 7, 2015)

How cringe-worthy.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Feb 7, 2015)

I...have no comment...


----------



## Lord Yu (Feb 7, 2015)

A legendary selection.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 7, 2015)

He didn't write it for the prompt, from looking at what he says in the edit this just happened to be a scene from his current work that fit the prompt perfectly. Still it was kind of well done and earned him a little bit of cash (someone bought him a Reddit subscription for it).


----------



## Risyth (Feb 8, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> I don't think I've been here for a while...
> 
> I haven't been really writing mah book. It's not that I've had writer's block, it's more along the lines of that I haven't had the motivation to write. I'm stuck at a part of the story where one of my characters tells the MC who's hunting her and why. But I don't like the way it's going on at all. I kind of forced it and I'm thinking of going back to rewrite the entire chapter, but I just don't have the motivation to do it.
> 
> ...



*I lost about twenty pages of work. So I'm doing fine.*


----------



## Lord Yu (Feb 8, 2015)

I'm rewriting three chapters today.  Two are too truncated. One is just kind of a mess. 


How to make a long period of nothing exciting? That is what I am tasked with.


----------



## Risyth (Feb 8, 2015)

*I still have it worse. 


Are you asking? Probably not, but I'll answer anyway. And it depends on what about the scene isn't thrilling. Even if nothing's happening, you never want to make anything your story intrinsically boring. Boring is boring, no matter what the excuse.*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 8, 2015)

To avoid the boring I either skip it or make sure to keep the character's viewpoint interesting. For the most part it's not hard since I have some pretty interesting people running around in my story on average. I'm a big fan of the skip it method, though. It seems like a lot of things in books could have just been done away with (like how long Harry Potter spends at home at the start of the books, just cut that shit out and go to the good part).


----------



## Lord Yu (Feb 8, 2015)

In this case, I have to emphasize tension. It's sort of an imprisonment scenario.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 9, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> In this case, I have to emphasize tension. It's sort of an imprisonment scenario.



You can avoid it being boring by having something happen while they're there or just by having the character think interesting things. I don't know the exact nature of what's going on, but think of it like this: There's a lot of tension near the end of Fight Club and the book really doesn't stop to breath. So there's some way to do it without slowing down too much. Though you're going to have to slow down sometimes anyway. It's best, if the work is longer, to let the reader and characters breath some.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 9, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> So someone posted this prompt on Reddit:
> 
> 
> 
> And this guy responded:



The entire bus watched me laugh myself into a coughing fit.


----------



## Furious George (Feb 9, 2015)

Okay, chopping block time. 

Here's what I suppose is a snippet of the creation mythology in my soon-to-be Swords & Sorcery romp.



> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would love some thoughts on it.

The full story may never actually make it into my narrative, but I wanted to give my world this kind of skeleton and to maybe drops bits of this creation myth here and there. 

And I'm fully aware that Fau-Glut is a terrible, terrible name. Its a work in progress... want to have a name that brings to mind a lazy fat thing that only consumes.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 10, 2015)

Furious George said:


> Okay, chopping block time.
> 
> Here's what I suppose is a snippet of the creation mythology in my soon-to-be Swords & Sorcery romp.
> 
> ...



I really like it. The idea of the thought of time is really awesome


----------



## Saishin (Feb 14, 2015)

I have in mind a sort of fantasy-comedy-love plot using a real historic character as main protagonist,what do you think?
Also I have this zombie horor story placed in Rome.Both of them are just ideas I didn't start any writings but I'd like to try to create a story.


----------



## Furious George (Feb 14, 2015)

Saishin said:


> I have in mind a sort of fantasy-comedy-love plot using a real historic character as main protagonist,what do you think?
> Also I have this zombie horor story placed in Rome.Both of them are just ideas I didn't start any writings but I'd like to try to create a story.




The first idea sounds like a lot of fun. A little risky though.

The second... I just sort of shut down whenever I hear zombies now.... though the Rome thing is a nice twist. I assume you're referring to ancient Rome?


----------



## Eternity (Feb 15, 2015)

I am working on really starting on my writing practice. Tell me what you guys think about the idea for the first one:



> Setting: A world where knowledge is the currency. No magic. Nature inspired. Village Structure. Metals are rare, making technology less of an importance.
> 
> Feel: Dark and gritty. Lonely. Hope in the distant.
> 
> ...



This is obviously really crude, superficial and vague, and meant to work only as a red string for me when I write.


----------



## Saishin (Feb 15, 2015)

Furious George said:


> The first idea sounds like a lot of fun. A little risky though.
> 
> The second... I just sort of shut down whenever I hear zombies now.... though the Rome thing is a nice twist. I assume you're referring to ancient Rome?


Yeah I guess so but the incipit is good,want to develop more.

No I have the intention to place it in modern Rome.


Eternity said:


> I am working on really starting on my writing practice. Tell me what you guys think about the idea for the first one:
> 
> 
> 
> This is obviously really crude, superficial and vague, and meant to work only as a red string for me when I write.


Wow it's nice.Love the stories that have a love triangle 
The setting is a sort of pre-medieval environment right?


----------



## Malicious Friday (Feb 15, 2015)

Saishin said:


> I have in mind a sort of fantasy-comedy-love plot using a real historic character as main protagonist,what do you think?
> Also I have this zombie horor story placed in Rome.Both of them are just ideas I didn't start any writings but I'd like to try to create a story.



I'm not gonna say you shouldn't do it, but it would be a good idea to do some rigorous research on those historical characters so their personalites can be on point. That's how I'd do it, anyway. 



Furious George said:


> Okay, chopping block time.
> 
> Here's what I suppose is a snippet of the creation mythology in my soon-to-be Swords & Sorcery romp.
> 
> ...



Kinda like where it went. Kinda reminded me of my own creation mythology


----------



## Lord Yu (Feb 21, 2015)

I'm so tempted to go full shonen with the ending of the first part of my series. Probably won't go down like that. 



I'm definitely bringing mecha into my second series though.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Feb 21, 2015)

I went to a party last night and I was drunk and high as I don't know what. I didn't remember anything from the night before, but apparently I wrote this on my computer before falling asleep and I love it! I might make THIS my debut book and try to wow everybody before I do my series. You know, gain a fanbase and everything. Now, I wrote this while I was really messed up and after I few corrections here and there and everywhere, I read it and wanted to see if you guys liked it: 


*Spoiler*: __ 





> *The  Soliloquies of a Mad Man     *
> 
> _August 10, 2001_
> 
> ...






I think I want to make this story revolve around his dreams and how he thinks they're all connected in some way and find out they really are because a lot of the characters reappear in his other dreams so they can continue the story from his dreams the nights before. Then he realizes something has to go on with the narrator himself and it finds out that what he was seeing was the only being (the main character in his dreams) in the universe with jesus-like omnipotence and has to save it (the universe). That's my first twist. The next and last twist says that he saw the actual end of the guy in his dream's universe and that main character from his dreams reincarnated into him so he can try to save his universe himself. But then again, he's just crazy and no one believes him.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 1, 2015)

I've finally got my events on hard lock.  As soon as I get this last arc is done I can go back re edit and call it a book.


----------



## Nordstrom (Mar 2, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> At a rough estimate of average chapter size I have near 72000 words. I am definitely not making my goal.  Just over three weeks have passed in my six month timeline. Even if I were to rapidly accelerate the pace I wouldn't make the end of part 1.



Shit, that's slow. Perhaps you should rethink your storytelling strategy.


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 2, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> I went to a party last night and I was drunk and high as I don't know what. I didn't remember anything from the night before, but apparently I wrote this on my computer before falling asleep and I love it! I might make THIS my debut book and try to wow everybody before I do my series. You know, gain a fanbase and everything. Now, I wrote this while I was really messed up and after I few corrections here and there and everywhere, I read it and wanted to see if you guys liked it:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I want to make this story revolve around his dreams and how he thinks they're all connected in some way and find out they really are because a lot of the characters reappear in his other dreams so they can continue the story from his dreams the nights before. Then he realizes something has to go on with the narrator himself and it finds out that what he was seeing was the only being (the main character in his dreams) in the universe with jesus-like omnipotence and has to save it (the universe). That's my first twist. The next and last twist says that he saw the actual end of the guy in his dream's universe and that main character from his dreams reincarnated into him so he can try to save his universe himself. But then again, he's just crazy and no one believes him.



Sounds good to me, I'll check into it when got more!


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 4, 2015)

Neil Gaiman said:
			
		

> There are stories you build and there are stories you construct; then there are the stories that you hack out of rock removing all the things that are not the story.



Started reading Gaiman's  short story collection "Trigger Warning" tonight.


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 7, 2015)

So been gathering authors for this project I'm working on. Trying to get as many stories submitted to me as possible. Basically just need a submission from different people who create their own heroes and give them back stories and their own powers. It can range from 8 or 9 pages all the way to 40. I'll be building a story around them anyway to lead to another book. If you're interested, anyone here, just let me know. I'd love to have any writer here throw in their submissions!


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 7, 2015)

Sounds like a nice project too bad I suck at creating superheros. 


I just exploded with cultural ideas for my story. I keep coming with more and more cultural notes for different countries. I have been working hard on putting together details on my Great War time period. I'm about to go nuts making a list of important historical figures for the time period.


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 8, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> Sounds like a nice project too bad I suck at creating superheros.
> 
> 
> I just exploded with cultural ideas for my story. I keep coming with more and more cultural notes for different countries. I have been working hard on putting together details on my Great War time period. I'm about to go nuts making a list of important historical figures for the time period.



Well main idea is to focus on the characters before the powers. Powers and all that is easy, I want some unique and interesting characters more than anything


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 8, 2015)

Characters I can do.


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 8, 2015)

Yeah, if you write a story around the character can always insert a power later


----------



## Malicious Friday (Mar 8, 2015)

What do you guys feel is an overpowered character?


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 8, 2015)

I have a character that devours galaxies in a story where the next most powerful character could only destroy a planet.  It's a lopsided power balance but it's intentional. 

Aside from that the male protagonist in my story punched out a creature the size of a mountain. He can also survive having his head chopped off. He can still die though it just takes a hell of a lot to kill him.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 8, 2015)

Anyone whose powers make me wonder why there's a conflict or who remove all dramatic tension.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 8, 2015)

I've had to get clever a few times. But for the most part, my story is more a character drama than an action story. My male protagonist Miguel is a nigh invulnerable shapeshifter but his personality...well it causes him to lose quite a bit.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Mar 8, 2015)

I have a character who killed a god, absorbed all of existence and broke into Heaven.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Mar 8, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> I went to a party last night and I was drunk and high as I don't know what. I didn't remember anything from the night before, but apparently I wrote this on my computer before falling asleep and I love it! I might make THIS my debut book and try to wow everybody before I do my series. You know, gain a fanbase and everything. Now, I wrote this while I was really messed up and after I few corrections here and there and everywhere, I read it and wanted to see if you guys liked it:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I want to make this story revolve around his dreams and how he thinks they're all connected in some way and find out they really are because a lot of the characters reappear in his other dreams so they can continue the story from his dreams the nights before. Then he realizes something has to go on with the narrator himself and it finds out that what he was seeing was the only being (the main character in his dreams) in the universe with jesus-like omnipotence and has to save it (the universe). That's my first twist. The next and last twist says that he saw the actual end of the guy in his dream's universe and that main character from his dreams reincarnated into him so he can try to save his universe himself. But then again, he's just crazy and no one believes him.



this is pretty interesting. sounds like a lot of research would need to go into it though, in terms of portraying his madness in a realistic fashion.


----------



## Krory (Mar 8, 2015)

I'm pretty sure these are anime.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Mar 8, 2015)

what is an anime? yu's idea or friday's?


----------



## Malicious Friday (Mar 8, 2015)

A lot of my stuff is heavily influenced off anime. Especially Attack on Titan.  _Especially Attack on Titan._


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 8, 2015)

I couldn't say what specific anime I'm influenced by anymore. Probably something perverted.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 8, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> What do you guys feel is an overpowered character?



A character's appropriate level of power depends on the story. If there's no fear of them losing or conflict that they can't resolve, then that's pretty much all there has to be for them to be considered over powered. Like I think Ender, from Ender's Game is an example of a character that gets a pass. He doesn't ever struggle with anything. He complains a little about being tired, and that's it.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 8, 2015)

Meanwhile, my male protagonist struggles with everything despite being super powerful.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 9, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> I've had to get clever a few times. But for the most part, my story is more a character drama than an action story. My male protagonist Miguel is a nigh invulnerable shapeshifter but his personality...well it causes him to lose quite a bit.





Lord Yu said:


> Meanwhile, my male protagonist struggles with everything despite being super powerful.



Yu brings best point.  It depends on the genre.  

Do you ever notice how little magical shoujo girls can rock absolutely limitless power in the name of pretty, and be super ultimate martial masters that spew dragons out of their fists in a universe where the average power level is that of a guy who doesn't even lift?  

It's because the stories have different focuses.  If a series main conflicts lie in physical threats, being all powerful ruins that.  If the conflicts are interpersonal, romantic, existential, ect, then their ability to bench mountains is irrelevant.  In those settings, I'd say the character is overpowered if they're perfect human beings who always say and do the right things to everyone and live in harmony.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 9, 2015)

I am two chapters away from the end of my first book.  Now I have to answer how to not make it boring.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Mar 10, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> I am two chapters away from the end of my first book.  Now I have to answer how to not make it boring.



if i had the answer to that, i would have a bestseller on my hands 

on another note, this is one of the main reasons i would never want anyone i know IRL to read my writing. it takes away from the believability of the work, and can be distracting if what you write = who you are. mostly though, i may just bore my friends/family to DEATH.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Mar 10, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> I am two chapters away from the end of my first book.  Now I have to answer how to not make it boring.



If you're writing a series, make it a cliffhanger


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 10, 2015)

Course it's a cliffhanger it's a duology in four.


----------



## Risyth (Mar 11, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> What do you guys feel is an overpowered character?



*I don't think it has to do with a character that's unfairly stronger than everyone. It can be anything they excel at that makes comparing them to another unfair.

And there's nothing wrong with having one of those characters or even a Mary Sue if they're well-written.*


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Mar 11, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> What do you guys feel is an overpowered character?



One that has nothing to lose and nothing to gain. Pretty much unstoppable.


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 11, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *I don't think it has to do with a character that's unfairly stronger than everyone. It can be anything they excel at that makes comparing them to another unfair.
> 
> And there's nothing wrong with having one of those characters or even a Mary Sue if they're well-written.*



Technically speaking you can't write a 'good' Mary Sue or Gary Stu, because they're the antithesis of good writing; they're idealized, perfect and generally without any kind of glaring flaw, immediately liked and received.  The main character from Twilight is probably the Mary-est of Sues you've seen in mainstream fiction in a long time.

You can have a Dr. Manhattan type character who has become nigh-omnipotent within the physical universe,  but has serious human flaws.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 11, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Technically speaking you can't write a 'good' Mary Sue or Gary Stu, because they're the antithesis of good writing; they're idealized, perfect and generally without any kind of glaring flaw, immediately liked and received.  The main character from Twilight is probably the Mary-est of Sues you've seen in mainstream fiction in a long time.
> 
> You can have a Dr. Manhattan type character who has become nigh-omnipotent within the physical universe,  but has serious human flaws.



The problem is no one knows what Mary Sue means anymore. It used to be taken to mean an original character placed in a fan fiction that was well known and liked by the main cast. He or she was the author insert and the wishfulfillment for the reader. It can be done right if it's hidden or if the readers allow it. Ender from Enders Game could be considered the original fiction version. Westley Crusher from Star Trek is considered one too. 

Herminone borders on it. 

As far as character over power, I think people think too often of physical power, but narrative power can be bad too. A character has to be held accountable for their actions. It can be hard, like I'm trying not to punish characters for certain things (don't want to write a morality tale) but they still need to be made to answer to something for choices made. That  was another issue with Enders Game.


----------



## Risyth (Mar 11, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Technically speaking you can't write a 'good' Mary Sue or Gary Stu, because they're the antithesis of good writing; they're idealized, perfect and generally without any kind of glaring flaw, immediately liked and received.  The main character from Twilight is probably the Mary-est of Sues you've seen in mainstream fiction in a long time.
> 
> You can have a Dr. Manhattan type character who has become nigh-omnipotent within the physical universe,  but has serious human flaws.



*@CTK: I know what the term means.

Even an "idealized, perfect and generally without any kind of glaring flaw, immediately liked and received"-type character can be written well. Why do you think just because a character is written to be perfect, they're a poor one? It depends on the type of story they're in and what role they play. A background character with those qualities has a much better chance of not annoying the reader than if the protagonist had them. And a mary sue can be the foil to a protagonist and still fail in that respect.*


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 11, 2015)

Tried putting a story been thinking of writing on the side on Wattpad. If guys have some free time let me know whatcha think. It's only about 3 pages long so far, only got chapter one done. This is just something did in about thirty minutes. I hope you enjoy 


here


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 12, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The problem is no one knows what Mary Sue means anymore. It used to be taken to mean an original character placed in a fan fiction that was well known and liked by the main cast. He or she was the author insert and the wishfulfillment for the reader. It can be done right if it's hidden or if the readers allow it. Ender from Enders Game could be considered the original fiction version. Westley Crusher from Star Trek is considered one too.
> 
> Herminone borders on it.
> 
> As far as character over power, I think people think too often of physical power, but narrative power can be bad too. A character has to be held accountable for their actions. It can be hard, like I'm trying not to punish characters for certain things (don't want to write a morality tale) but they still need to be made to answer to something for choices made. That  was another issue with Enders Game.



I get sick of main characters getting a pass on every action, or somehow having everything they do become justified and correct by the plot or populace.  It's a non-power level method of sue, and any non-believers exist to be proven wrong.

I also get tired of the world revolving around the main character, or the main character doing absolutely everything, which frequently ends in everyone else becoming a cheer leader.  For another example of narrative over-empowerment.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 12, 2015)

Here is something that I have a slight problem with messing up and that I plan to fix in the future and go back and look for. 

 Wrestlingaddictz

Pretty much just how to handle quotations. I don't think it's a big deal because if you mess it up the story is pretty easily understood still. But some editors and readers get nit picky.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 12, 2015)

I think I may have underestimated the shift. I don't think I can end this book in this section.  Argh, I kind of wish this story were more typical and it was easier to define the beginning middle and end. At this point, my story is almost episodic.


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 12, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Here is something that I have a slight problem with messing up and that I plan to fix in the future and go back and look for.
> 
> Wrestlingaddictz
> 
> Pretty much just how to handle quotations. I don't think it's a big deal because if you mess it up the story is pretty easily understood still. But some editors and readers get nit picky.



Hmmm I never really noticed that. Funny too because even published books by big authors seem to miss this sometimes


----------



## Malicious Friday (Mar 12, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Here is something that I have a slight problem with messing up and that I plan to fix in the future and go back and look for.
> 
> Wrestlingaddictz
> 
> Pretty much just how to handle quotations. I don't think it's a big deal because if you mess it up the story is pretty easily understood still. But some editors and readers get nit picky.



Oh man, I didn't know that thing about the question mark. I always capitalized.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 12, 2015)

The thing is I don't think these rules really matter and some of them seem like stylistic things that developed into rules later. A lot of stuff kind of starts that way. What makes me frustrated is people who will shrug off a good story because of dumb little shit like this. Sure, basic grammar, punctuation and usage is important, but I think a lot of people are pretentious about how some stuff is used.


----------



## Risyth (Mar 12, 2015)

> If the tag contains an action tag and a dialogue tag, use the rules for dialogue tags.
> 
> Ex:  “I want to marry you,” he said as he stepped forward. “May I kiss you?” he asked, stroking my lips with his thumb.



*I ignore this rule religiously. It makes for an ugly, sometimes confusing-looking sentence.*


----------



## Malicious Friday (Mar 12, 2015)

^I use that one a lot, to be honest.


----------



## Risyth (Mar 12, 2015)

*No offense to anyone who does, I mean.... *


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 12, 2015)

I kind of suck with that.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Mar 15, 2015)

So do you guys ever think about the themes and motifs and the like in your books or do you just write? 

I just write.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 15, 2015)

I like to write very much, but I sometimes have trouble finding inspiration, being able to get myself into the mood to write. What does everyone here do to find inspiration?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 15, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> So do you guys ever think about the themes and motifs and the like in your books or do you just write?
> 
> I just write.



I read over it looking for them and enhance the ones I like so that they stand out and make sense.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 15, 2015)

I'm very theme heavy - I keep trying to write a book just for the sake of the chars or plot, but it feels like the story I'm writing isn't complete unless I've nailed down the thematic structure. It's like deliberately ignoring an itch, but by deliberately ignoring it suddenly you can't think of anything else except the itch.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 15, 2015)

Supposedly second to last chapter, absolutely nothing climactic is happening. Yeah, this shit is going longer. I have no idea what I'm doing.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 15, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> Supposedly second to last chapter, absolutely nothing climactic is happening. Yeah, this shit is going longer. I have no idea what I'm doing.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 15, 2015)

The more I think about my novel the more episodic it starts to feel. I don't know how to take the episodic structure and put a cap on it.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 16, 2015)

Just think of how TV shows have ended. Breaking Bad is a good example, it ended with relatively good reviews and did all of the things it had to. You just have to bring elements from key episodes and make them count in the end and bring things to a close. 

Unless you want to make another book. 

I had an idea where I wanted to write my book as if it was a TV series with each small story being an episode and there being so many per season.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 16, 2015)

There will be four books. I wish I could better describe it.  There is this big plot that at the moment the characters are largely powerless to stop. Right now I'm sort of focusing on the formation of the main group of characters and spent most of the novel focusing on character dynamics rather than plot movement.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 16, 2015)

I decided to go with an episodic nature for one of my stories.  It was easier that way to highlight the important parts of life and growing, and tell the interesting bits, than to fluff up the volume with travel time and in between bits that don't add anything.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 16, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> There will be four books. I wish I could better describe it.  There is this big plot that at the moment the characters are largely powerless to stop. Right now I'm sort of focusing on the formation of the main group of characters and spent most of the novel focusing on character dynamics rather than plot movement.



The only book I can think of that I've read recently that's like that, in terms of character dynamic over plot, is "All Our Pretty Songs" . it's really beautifully written but it seems like nothing happens for about the first three fourths of the book and then at the end everything happens. 



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I decided to go with an episodic nature for one of my stories.  It was easier that way to highlight the important parts of life and growing, and tell the interesting bits, than to fluff up the volume with travel time and in between bits that don't add anything.



Right now I'm not sure if this is episodic in the least. Sadly, I have been getting hung up on what I want the villain to be in this one. At first, years ago, it was a detective story with supernatural elements. After that it became a lot of other things before I actually decided on cosmic horror and now I'm starting to think that I should go back to the original idea with the cosmic horror mixed in. I haven't messed with the structure as much.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 16, 2015)

A lot happens in bursts in my story. My opening is pretty chaotic, then it settles out and weird happens amidst mundane conversation leading into horrific peaks, and kind of trippy valleys.  Maybe it's because I have characters who are so laidback. My female protagonist, Eridaltia, is very nonchalant in accepting the weird and keeps cool even when surrounded by serial killers and monsters. To be clear, she doesn't have any powers.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 17, 2015)

She's hardcore.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Mar 17, 2015)

I love female characters like that.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 25, 2015)

A recent show has kind of rekindled my desire to write this character I was working on a while ago. She was an undead girl who was trying to pass for living. A lot of this stuff turned into the story that I'm working on now, except that I dropped the whole dead thing. 

I'm finding out that there's kind of term for what I was thinking of in terms of creatures; it's called a revenant.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 26, 2015)

So I came up with a slightly more creative way of fading to black before sex: 


*Spoiler*: __ 



	While I’m getting dressed, I wolf down two bananas. Trying to keep the outfit simple for this. Wearing a dress is just inviting trouble, so I throw on a purple off-the-shoulder tunic, some suede boots, and a pair of yoga pants. Yoga pants were invented for periods.

	There’s a small pink Princess Peach _Nintendo DS_ carrying case that I haven’t used since I took the _DS _apart to use the screens for something else (if you must know: I set them into the top of a computer case I built to monitor clock-speed, heat and other stuff). I shove three tampons, a small bottle filled with _Midol _and cell salts, an extra change of underwear and a hair tie into it. 

	Just call it a menstruation bug out bag.

	The car that might be considered mine (if I ever used it) is a classic--if we take the word classic to mean piece of shit. It’s a 1987 El Camino; that was the last year they made that car and it really shows why. It’s ugly and boxy. The fake wood paneling down the sides and the puke-brown color don’t help matters.

	Dad said that this would be a cheap, American made car that was simple enough for him to repair and keep working. He also said that no one ever easily fucked inside an El Camino. I think he actually believed that before he caught Daunte and I using a very effective work around to do just that. I mean, all that empty space in the back was just going to waste. 

	It takes a few tries to get it to start. The last time I actually drove it is kind of hazy. I remember going around the corner to get a Blizzard from Dairy Queen only to be reminded that the _Dairy Queen_ had burned down months ago and been replaced by one of those e-cigarette shops. 

	The car lurches forward and then sputters before taking off; the gas in the tank has been sitting for who knows how long. As I near Daunte’s school it starts to roll along smoother. For some reason, the radio only gets AM stations and most of those seem to be gospel  or news.

	I cut the engine to let the car roll into a space in the visitor lot across from Daunte’s school. The building is all brownish-red bricks and thick decorative vines growing up on either side of the entrance. I bump the door of the car closed with my hip, sling my purse up onto my shoulder and head inside. 

	There’s a large crest on the floor just inside of the entrance that looks like one of those family crests knights used to wear._ Zelo zelatus sum pro domino deo exercituum_, the school motto, is inscribed in a circle around the crest. 

	On my first visit here, when I looked down at the floor and read it out loud, (_With zeal I have been zealous for the Lord, God of Hosts_ for those who don’t know) Daunte had claimed it was cheating to use succubus powers to read dead languages.

	The woman in the office isn’t looking and after I peer around the door long enough to make sure she’s busy, I dart past. The sophomore lockers are on the second floor in the first hallway and, of course, I go straight to Daunte’s. My timing is perfect and the bell rings after I’ve been sitting against the wall for a few minutes reading a book on my phone. 

	I climb to my feet, getting a few jabs in my stomach when the movements don’t quite agree with my body, and lean against the scuffed, blue door of his locker. Crowds of students pour out as the bells chime down the halls. And at this school it’s an actual bell. I half expect to see some hunchbacked outcast returning from the tower in the courtyard when his duty is done. 

	Daunte is in a navy blue vest with a blue and white plaid patterned shirt on. He’s talking to a short girl with thick, dark hair. She’s got her books pulled close to her chest and she’s averting her eyes from him, but he doesn’t notice. And he doesn’t see me. 

	She passes me and waves, but he misses it. She’s standing right next to me with a dopey smile on her face and her arm held up in this awkward half wave. Daunte’s back is too both of us as he speaks to a blond guy at a locker. When he finally turns and sees me he rushes up to hug me.

	“Annemarie. I’m kind of shocked you came.” He presses me against the locker; the cold metal sinks through the thin fabric of my shirt. Out of the corner of my eye I see the dark haired girl’s shoulders slump as she goes to walk away.

	“Jen, this is Annemarie, my girlfriend,” he says calling her back.

	She smiles, gives a little wave and tries to keep from staring at my horns. “Hi, I’m Jen. I’m in history class with Daunte. He’s been helping me.” 

	“He’s had to help me with history. I suck at remembering the dates,” I say. 

	She giggles. “I think they just throw them in there to make the test hard.” The book she’s clutching against her chest, over a large text book, looks familiar. _The Sandman_. There’s this strange, visceral kind of drawing on the cover.

	“Is that, like, a graphic novel? Sandman, I think my best friend read that.” I remember seeing Lissette carrying something similar, but the cover was different.

	Jen’s eyes go wide. “You have to read it. Borrow it from her if you can; it’s the best.” 

	“I’ll give that a try.” I smile and I realize I’m doing it again. The hormones, I can’t go on starving like this. My body starts to look for a meal anywhere. 

	“Well, it was nice meeting you Annemarie. Bye,” she says heading into the receding crowds of students. 

	Daunte kisses me and slides his hands up under my chin. “You’ve been upset the last few days. It’s nice to see you’re feeling better.” 

	“I’m not.” My heartbeat sends a shiver through my shoulders and arms. I swallow and he kisses me again. “Do you mind if we did something besides study on your free period?” 

	“What did you have in mind?” he asks. 

	The whole drive here I’d thought about this. It was broad daylight out and I preferred not to be exposed to the harsh bed of a 1987 El Camino if I didn’t have to. “Didn’t you tell me there was construction going on in the junior hall?”

	“Yeah, but they only work on it during breaks and on the weekends. That whole half of the hall is pretty much empty now, but--”

	I’m pulling him down the hall until he’s stomping and it cuts his sentence off. He shushes me as we pass the classrooms and head for the stairwell. The door to the closed off wing is chained shut from the outside, but there’s an open hatch-like window on the side of the building. We shimmy through, Daunte going first and helping me out on the other side. 

	The first room we come for is a science lab. All of the books and equipment have been replaced by saws and toolboxes and ladders. An office chair draped in plastic stands in the corner.

	“Sit down.” I point to the chair and pull his arm to lead him toward it. 

	“You want to do this here?” he asks as he moves the plastic and drops into the chair. 

	There’s a haze of sawdust in the air and a strong smell of burnt wood and paint. I sling my purse down onto a nearby desk and dig a hair tie out of the bug-out-bag. “Yes.”

	I close the door, lock the deadbolt and push a toolbox in front of it. Daunte is looking at me like he wants me or he’s scared or he doesn’t know what to think anymore. I’ve lost the ability to tell the difference between what my eyes see and what they want to see. 

	“You usually won’t come here to visit. Didn’t all the holy water bother you?” he asks.

	I didn’t notice. Lissette is always saying my being scared of holy objects is all my imagination. “I powered through it,” I tell him. “If you don’t want to do this, Daunte, it’s fine.” 

	“No, I want to,” he says this very quickly and then pauses. “Aren’t you going to get out of your clothes?” He unbuckles his belt and pants and lifts up to slide them down until they’re just below his knees. 

	I slide the top the rest of the way down my shoulders until my bra is exposed. “We can’t do much; there’s basically a _Saw _movie going on in between my legs right now.” We’ve crossed that bridge before, but this is worse than normal and he’s at school where clean-up might be a problem. 

	“Oh,” he says as he glances around nervously. He rolls the chair forward to close the gap between us and dust a little spot on the floor off with my foot. Everything’s going red again as wrestle my hair back into a messy bun and get down in front of him. He leans down to kiss me and I gnaw at his lips before pushing him back against the chair causing it to sway.

	There’s a scent that I know to be him: fresh starch on pressed khaki and laundry detergent and clean, nervous sweat. His heart and breathing thunder in my ears as I rest my elbows on his knees. We’re so exposed here, but it actually makes me want him more.

	Sex for a succubus is a drug, though I like the feeding explanation better. Actual, pee-in-vee is the best way to fill the craving, but being near someone who gets off works too. Getting them off yourself works even better. You can guess which I’m about to do and it’s not the most fascinating thing to describe.

	A lot of things I can tell you without hesitation, but this is one place I won’t go. Not because of decency or whatever being ladylike means; there is something about having moments that are mine that makes keeping your mouth closed worth it.

	Well, closed in one sense of the word at least.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 26, 2015)

Is it bad that possibly my most affable and relatable character is a pedophilic reformed serial killer?


----------



## Risyth (Mar 26, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> So I came up with a slightly more creative way of fading to black before sex:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



*Just write the sex scene and don't dillydally around it. 

^Bad in what way?*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 26, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *Just write the sex scene and don't dillydally around it.
> 
> ^Bad in what way?*



The point is the sex scene wouldn't make sense for the character. Most sex scenes aren't that interesting to read, really.


----------



## Risyth (Mar 26, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The point is the sex scene wouldn't make sense for the character. Most sex scenes aren't that interesting to read, really.



*Are you creative in writing them? :ho*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 26, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *Are you creative in writing them? :ho*



I tend to not waste time on them because they don't serve a purpose in the story. Unless there's some large character moment that takes place during sex, I don't see the point of writing it out. Well, unless you're working on erotica.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 26, 2015)

I don't think sex is a waste of time to write out but I'm not about to put undue focus on it either.  Sexual fixations can say a lot about a person.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 26, 2015)

Sex scenes can generally be omitted and nothing will be lost.  If you can completely remove something without losing anything, then I take it out.  

They're also boring.


----------



## Risyth (Mar 26, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I tend to not waste time on them because they don't serve a purpose in the story. Unless there's some large character moment that takes place during sex, I don't see the point of writing it out. Well, unless you're working on erotica.


*Because of show don't tell and it's more realistic...and it's not the 19th century. 
*


Lord Yu said:


> I don't think sex is a waste of time to write out but I'm not about to put undue focus on it either.  Sexual fixations can say a lot about a person.


*Only as much as you need to get the experience of the scene across imo. 

They can? To me that depends entirely on how the narrator narrates the scene, not how often it comes up (because then the genre changes). But the author can be making the narrator like that on purpose. 

If you mean "person" as in "narrator," though, I get what you're saying.*


----------



## Risyth (Mar 26, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Sex scenes can generally be omitted and nothing will be lost.  If you can completely remove something without losing anything, then I take it out.
> 
> They're also boring.



*That last part's subjective and depends on the writer too...but so, you're minimalist? I guess I'm kind of maximalist and that's why I'm thinking this way.*


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 26, 2015)

Sex can be fun, in a lot of ways. I guess I have to many funny stories with sex not to put them in haha.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 26, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Sex scenes can generally be omitted and nothing will be lost.  If you can completely remove something without losing anything, then I take it out.
> 
> They're also boring.



They tend to be boring for me too and I often skip them when I find that a book is just throwing them in to be edgy. The ones that I have seen that weren't tended to be very short. I liked the sex in "Prep", but it was in very short bursts and a lot of it was first time experiences. One of my characters has slept with well over a dozen guys and the other has been having sex for two years consistently with the same person, the experience isn't telling as much about them as the lead up to it can sometimes. 



Risyth said:


> *Because of show don't tell and it's more realistic...and it's not the 19th century.
> *



In the case of me writing a first person scene like that I'm probably showing a lot more about the character than I would be from writing a blow job scene. Especially in how she differs from the other narrator, who would have no problem telling the reader about her sexual exploits.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 26, 2015)

For me it's a tone thing. The way you write or emphasise sex and its details changes or reinforces the tone of what you're writing.

That CTK chooses to end the piece as he does sets a specific tone and reinforces a specific narrative voice. It's more innocent, more idealised and still manages to communicate exactly what happens. Writing the sex scene means character is conveyed less well, and the whole feel of the chapter changes.

One very good example of using sex to convey tone is Joe Abercrombie - he writes sex like he writes violence. Coarse and ugly, and sometimes even unpleasant. It helps reinforce the world, characters and overall tone of his writing.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 27, 2015)

Anyway, still can't see an end to this volume.  I'm just going to keep running until I hit a natural stop point.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 27, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *That last part's subjective and depends on the writer too...but so, you're minimalist? I guess I'm kind of maximalist and that's why I'm thinking this way.*



I don't know.  I don't think so.  I just try to write whatever I need to convey the message in the way I want it to be received.  That takes however many words and techniques it takes until I'm satisfied.  



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> They tend to be boring for me too and I often skip them when I find that a book is just throwing them in to be edgy. The ones that I have seen that weren't tended to be very short. I liked the sex in "Prep", but it was in very short bursts and a lot of it was first time experiences. One of my characters has slept with well over a dozen guys and the other has been having sex for two years consistently with the same person, the experience isn't telling as much about them as the lead up to it can sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of me writing a first person scene like that I'm probably showing a lot more about the character than I would be from writing a blow job scene. Especially in how she differs from the other narrator, who would have no problem telling the reader about her sexual exploits.



I think the short ones leave more to the imagination and let the build up and characterization show through.  Maybe they just end before I have a chance to get bored of them.

Something I've found among fanfiction/amateur writing is that every extended sex scene is the same one with different names.  A friend of mine once wrote a fill in the blank smut worksheet based on the observation.



Tyrael said:


> For me it's a tone thing. The way you write or emphasise sex and its details changes or reinforces the tone of what you're writing.
> 
> That CTK chooses to end the piece as he does sets a specific tone and reinforces a specific narrative voice. It's more innocent, more idealised and still manages to communicate exactly what happens. Writing the sex scene means character is conveyed less well, and the whole feel of the chapter changes.
> 
> One very good example of using sex to convey tone is Joe Abercrombie - he writes sex like he writes violence. Coarse and ugly, and sometimes even unpleasant. It helps reinforce the world, characters and overall tone of his writing.



Tone is true.  I can appreciate that.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 27, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I don't know.  I don't think so.  I just try to write whatever I need to convey the message in the way I want it to be received.  That takes however many words and techniques it takes until I'm satisfied.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well they're using porn as a template. They start with conversation, move to teasing, then blow jobs (sometimes with oral sex for her too)  and then full on sex and climax. 

Really there's only so many holes and parts you can stick in them. The average person gets pretty repetitive with their sex repertoire. That's another reason I tend not to write the sex scenes. Lissette has a lot of sex, but her knowledge set is limited. It would be boring to write or read.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 28, 2015)

Man, fuck sex, let's talk about character relationships romantic or otherwise.


----------



## Risyth (Mar 29, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> They tend to be boring for me too and I often skip them when I find that a book is just throwing them in to be edgy. The ones that I have seen that weren't tended to be very short. I liked the sex in "Prep", but it was in very short bursts and a lot of it was first time experiences. One of my characters has slept with well over a dozen guys and the other has been having sex for two years consistently with the same person, the experience isn't telling as much about them as the lead up to it can sometimes.
> 
> In the case of me writing a first person scene like that I'm probably showing a lot more about the character than I would be from writing a blow job scene. Especially in how she differs from the other narrator, who would have no problem telling the reader about her sexual exploits.



*Well...that's one way of putting it. w But not all sex scenes have to be smut and sodomy.  It is very possible to write an intimate sex scene while still keeping it classy, relevant, and revealing of the psyche's and mannerisms of those doing it. 


...Tyrael. *


The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I don't know.  I don't think so.  *I just try to write whatever I need to convey the message in the way I want it to be received.*  That takes however many words and techniques it takes until I'm satisfied.



*But you said those scenes can generally be omitted without losing anything of importance. 

The bold is a minimalist approach too. So you had me until that last part.*


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 29, 2015)

I've been getting the sense that despite my extensive world building my style might be so insular it might not be conveyed to the audience.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 29, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *Well...that's one way of putting it. w But not all sex scenes have to be smut and sodomy.  It is very possible to write an intimate sex scene while still keeping it classy, relevant, and revealing of the psyche's and mannerisms of those doing it.
> 
> 
> ...Tyrael. *



I don't disagree with any of that.


----------



## Risyth (Mar 30, 2015)

Tyrael said:


> I don't disagree with any of that.


*I never implied that you did.

[SP]Okay, I did. [/SP]*



Lord Yu said:


> I've been getting the sense that despite my extensive world building my style might be so insular it might not be conveyed to the audience.



*I've been told that. Except for the "extensive world building" part. 
But there's nothing wrong with writing for your niche as long as it's objectively good writing. Unless you're trying to get paid of course. Then your niche had better be big or devoted...or both. ww*


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2015)

I agree with that person .


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 30, 2015)

I have so many damned locations in my world.  It's aggravating keeping up with them sometimes. I just made a country list. 21 countries and the list will grow again soon. I have to think of more for both the modern and Ancient eras THEN  the future era. Borders change with political shifts. My world is not static. Borders are constantly changing and countries get chewed up.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 30, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> I have so many damned locations in my world.  It's aggravating keeping up with them sometimes. I just made a country list. 21 countries and the list will grow again soon. I have to think of more for both the modern and Ancient eras THEN  the future era. Borders change with political shifts. My world is not static. Borders are constantly changing and countries get chewed up.



This is part of why I don't fuck with world building; I know that to make it realistic I would have to do so much more work and the kind of stories I tell tend to be more contemporary. 

The one that I do want to work on that's set in a kind of 1920s style world would probably only take place in one city and I would be able to play with that some, but most of my world building stuff is on the races, magic, technology level.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 30, 2015)

World building is so wonderfully fun. Especially with the clusterfuck I've built. Building whole histories out of whole cloth.  So many stories to be told. It is a lot of work but it gives me so much meat to chew on so many stories to play with. I've learned so much about culture.

Just because it's a constructed world doesn't mean a story can't be contemporary.  Because I'm lazy the technology in the era I'm writing in now isn't that far ahead of our own.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 30, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> World building is so wonderfully fun. Especially with the clusterfuck I've built. Building whole histories out of whole cloth.  So many stories to be told. It is a lot of work but it gives me so much meat to chew on so many stories to play with. I've learned so much about culture.
> 
> Just because it's a constructed world doesn't mean a story can't be contemporary.  Because I'm lazy the technology in the era I'm writing in now isn't that far ahead of our own.



I said contemporary, but what I actually meant was that it's placed in the real modern day world. The places and very much of the history are the real stuff that happened. 

There are minor things here and there that I change, so there is some design and balance to deal with. When I've had to design a world from the ground up in the past it's taken me a very long time and there's usually some faults in that harm what I'm using it for down the line. I don't really have much fun with it and I find it stressful.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 31, 2015)

I suppose being a history buff helps.  It takes a lot of practice to get your minor cultural gestures consistent.  I don't like to bury my stories in tangential myths  and folktales normally  I keep things pretty casual and everyday with people drawing things from their lives rather than their great great ancestor. 

I think I've lost track of the conversation.


----------



## Risyth (Mar 31, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> This is part of why I don't fuck with world building; I know that to make it realistic I would have to do so much more work and the kind of stories I tell tend to be more contemporary.
> 
> The one that I do want to work on that's set in a kind of 1920s style world would probably only take place in one city and I would be able to play with that some, but most of my world building stuff is on the races, magic, technology level.


*It really is a lot of effort before you even start the characterization. I'd say something about "anything being possible if you have the talent" or whatever, but just thinking about it's making me tired.... *


Lord Yu said:


> World building is so wonderfully fun. Especially with the clusterfuck I've built. *Building whole histories out of whole cloth.*  So many stories to be told. It is a lot of work but it gives me so much meat to chew on so many stories to play with. I've learned so much about culture.
> 
> Just because it's a constructed world doesn't mean a story can't be contemporary.  Because I'm lazy the technology in the era I'm writing in now isn't that far ahead of our own.


*What do you mean by that?
*


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 31, 2015)

Just saying I'm building my own historical record  using mostly my invented cultures springing from my invented conditions.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 3, 2015)

*Geez, I'm surprised you got to writing anything at all.

I'm glad you're able to do anything like that, though. The first thing a novelist told me when I said I was writing a book that long was, "Oh, you're trying to write, like, an epic? Don't."

And then he started listing reasons and analogies as to why I wasn't good enough. The way I see it, writing an epic is much easier than writing a short novel since you have more freedom to do what you want and end when you want.*


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 3, 2015)

No, it's not even close to easy. Freedom is chaos. Writing an epic is bringing order to absolute chaos. I thought of at least seven disciplines I had to draw on while writing this story, History, Economics, Biology, Linguistics, Sociology, Political Science, Geology; all that shit pushed together. Sure you could just vomit 200,000 words on a book and call it an epic. But if you want it done right you have to fucking put in work.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 3, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *Geez, I'm surprised you got to writing anything at all.
> 
> I'm glad you're able to do anything like that, though. The first thing a novelist told me when I said I was writing a book that long was, "Oh, you're trying to write, like, an epic? Don't."
> 
> And then he started listing reasons and analogies as to why I wasn't good enough. The way I see it, writing an epic is much easier than writing a short novel since you have more freedom to do what you want and end when you want.*



The epic is going to usually be the harder way around because you have to write so much more and tie it all together. Most short stories have a limited number of plot threads, a longer story will typically have more by default. 

There will usually be more characters and you have try and maintain consistency for longer too.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 3, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The epic is going to usually be the harder way around because you have to write so much more and tie it all together. Most short stories have a limited number of plot threads, a longer story will typically have more by default.
> 
> There will usually be more characters and you have try and maintain consistency for longer too.


*The difference is you have complete discretion as to how much time you want to spend tying it all together. If you don't have that much you want to write, you shouldn't be thinking of writing an epic anyway. But with a novel, you're only limited to tying up a story so quickly before you're over the limit of a novel's size.

And it's not necessarily true that an epic will have more plot threads than a novel. It can just be one continuous, enormous and linear adventure. Short stories are even shorter than novels, so I'm not comparing them to epics.

I understand your point about having more characters, though. On the flip side, you have much, much more time to mold them in an epic. After that, it's up to your personal skill as a writer (and maybe memory, I guess).
*


Lord Yu said:


> No, it's not even close to easy. Freedom is chaos. Writing an epic is bringing order to absolute chaos. I thought of at least seven disciplines I had to draw on while writing this story, History, Economics, Biology, Linguistics, Sociology, Political Science, Geology; all that shit pushed together. Sure you could just vomit 200,000 words on a book and call it an epic. But if you want it done right you have to fucking put in work.



*I never said it was generally easy. I said it was easier than writing a short novel. The reason is you just have more time to detail everything with a lower risk of inadvertently changing other aspects of your story in the process. Any story with a good amount of lore or even a real-life or modeled setting is going to require a lot of research in order to be depicted accurately. That's not exclusive to epics. This goes for other fields as well; it just depends on what you're writing about.

You could say that for any story. Putting in more work doesn't mean writing a story of that length is objectively more difficult. More strenuous, maybe. But working a factory job isn't more difficult than working from home as a DBA in Canada. And even then, it's still possible to put in more effort writing a short novel versus an epic. That just depends on the authors. 

Since we're not talking about poems, the only difference between an "epic" in this sense and a "novel" is that an epic's a really long novel. I could write whatever until I reached something that size and still not end up doing all the revisions, researches, and run-throughs a short story writer might do to equal all the time I've spent despite having a shorter product. I could also have a simpler prose, plot, and characters that's just easier to deal with overall.*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 3, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *The difference is you have complete discretion as to how much time you want to spend tying it all together. If you don't have that much you want to write, you shouldn't be thinking of writing an epic anyway. But with a novel, you're only limited to tying up a story so quickly before you're over the limit of a novel's size.
> 
> And it's not necessarily true that an epic will have more plot threads than a novel. It can just be one continuous, enormous and linear adventure. Short stories are even shorter than novels, so I'm not comparing them to epics.
> 
> ...



I read your "short novels" as "short stories". So to clarify do you mean epic poetry? Like the stuff of old, or epic fantasy? Because I would say that I can't think of a modern epic fantasy that has just the one plot line running the duration of it.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 3, 2015)

*No, I just mean really long novels. Epics in that sense are still novels, but a lot of people still add in a cut off for convenience.  

I can't think of a modern epic fantasy at all.  It's certainly possible, but people nowadays are too lazy to read such stories at the 500+ word mark for whatever reason.*


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 3, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *
> I can't think of a modern epic fantasy at all.  It's certainly possible, but people nowadays are too lazy to read such stories at the 500+ word mark for whatever reason.*



.

You mean the 500+ page mark?

JK Rowling, Robert Jordan, George R.R. Martin, Patrick Rothfuss, Brandon Sanderson et all.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 3, 2015)

*Yeah           .*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 6, 2015)

Starting to feel more and more like one of my characters is a lesbian and just needs to embrace that full on. I really don't know how to handle her in terms of not making her seem stereotypical. I don't really have the girl on girl fantasy thing, so I guess that should help keep me from embracing that pornographic sort of shit that we often get.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 6, 2015)

I have one major character who is very openly bisexual. I just don't make a thing about it.  It's just a part of her character and I don't really think I need to go deep into it.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 6, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> I have one major character who is very openly bisexual. I just don't make a thing about it.  It's just a part of her character and I don't really think I need to go deep into it.


Lissette I've decided wouldn't care about the sex of a person and I think I've had her mention it before, but it feels different when it's someone who is a lesbian. I probably won't go any deeper into it than I have to and this isn't a love story kind of thing.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 6, 2015)

Romance is hefty in my story but said character's sexual inclinations are unimportant as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 6, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> Romance is hefty in my story but said character's sexual inclinations are unimportant as far as I'm concerned.



I am trying not to make it too obvious too quickly. The lesbian is kind of into the bi girl, but at this stage it's very innocent and light flirtation.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 6, 2015)

I just laid it all out. I introduced like it was a joke and just let it ride until the audience can realize it's serious.  It's not really a point the character thinks about so why I should I linger on it. 

Are you going to turn it into an important theme? Is the status of lesbian something meaningful to their character growth or just some point about the character?

I remember writing this story about this one girl who was nominally straight but was deeply in love with her female best friend. Boy did I make a mistake of pushing that too far.  I never did finish that story. Next time I'm probably not going to have her make her feelings obvious till later.  I kinda stopped the story momentum dead.

That little tangent probably won't help with your thing or maybe it will. I dunno.  To me it's all about how relevant do you want it to be to the plot.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 6, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> I just laid it all out. I introduced like it was a joke and just let it ride until the audience can realize it's serious.  It's not really a point the character thinks about so why I should I linger on it.
> 
> Are you going to turn it into an important theme? Is the status of lesbian something meaningful to their character growth or just some point about the character?
> 
> ...



Her being a lesbian is important to understanding her actions toward this other character. She's going to slowly fall in love with her, but it won't be a main point of the story and I don't think it's going to be something that's a two way street with them. 

I'd like to avoid it overshadowing the big picture too.

When you say you pushed it too far what do you mean?


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 6, 2015)

Had them hole up in a house on the outskirts of town before starting the plot. Man, I just realized I have a bad habit of doing that in a story. Also, I had it reciprocated too easily. While homosexuality is much more accepted in the setting from a story perspective it resolved that conflict too quickly.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 6, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> Had them hole up in a house on the outskirts of town before starting the plot. Man, I just realized I have a bad habit of doing that in a story. Also, I had it reciprocated too easily. While homosexuality is much more accepted in the setting from a story perspective it resolved that conflict too quickly.



*How long did you dwell on the aftermath of...I guess her admission? That's always important.*


----------



## Risyth (Apr 7, 2015)

*May I ask what it is?*


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 7, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *How long did you dwell on the aftermath of...I guess her admission? That's always important.*



She had quietly acknowledged her crush before the story. Just never openly confessed, that wasn't the conflict.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 7, 2015)

*What was the conflict then? I meant the open confession.*


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 7, 2015)

That she might not reciprocate. That it might ruin the friendship at its most vulnerable moment.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 7, 2015)

*Did you drag that conflict out?*


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 7, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *May I ask what it is?*



.

It'll focus on counterculture movements.

Hopefully in ways that have never been thought of, nor found, in human history.

Over time, I've collected knowledge of some things people have probably never heard of.  I need to have something up my sleeve to compensate for my poor sentence structure and grammar.  

Things like thermoeconomics, which is a form of economics where the flow of cash is analyzed similarly to how heat would be analyzed from a physics perspective.

It probably won't amount to much.  I'm just happy I finally have a premise I like and might finally be able to follow through on.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 7, 2015)

*You've collected knowledge over time, but can you organize it into a flowing novel? 

Well I don't know anything about thermodynamics, so you've got me there. ww

Good luck.  I know what I'm writing won't amount to much, so it's no worry. *


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 7, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *Did you drag that conflict out?*



It wasn't the primary conflict of the story but it was one of the things going. The protagonist and her friend were fleeing a terrorist group of people they knew.  The central plot was the protagonist trying to save her friend from the terrorist group. The friend was involved with the terrorists because of family. Yadda yadda yadda the romance was one aspect of the whole. Love was the protagonist's motivation.

Anyway, the way I wrote it picked up momentum and dropped it.  It was meant to be a novella so I didn't have much time to park.


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 7, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *You've collected knowledge over time, but can you organize it into a flowing novel?
> 
> Well I don't know anything about thermodynamics, so you've got me there. ww
> 
> Good luck.  I know what I'm writing won't amount to much, so it's no worry. *



.

I learn from the masters.    This is how JK Rowling outlined _The Order of the Phoenix_.

[sp][/sp]

Thermodynamics operates under a fundamental set of guidelines.  


The first law, also known as Law of Conservation of Energy, states that energy cannot be created or destroyed in a chemical reaction.

The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of any isolated system not in thermal equilibrium almost always increases.

The third law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of a system approaches a constant value as the temperature approaches absolute zero.

To some degree, these three laws (and other facets of thermodynamics) might be applicable to monetary policy and the behavior of cash as it is exchanged from party to party.  There are some like myself who believe this form of analysis is vastly superior to traditional keynesian versus hayek economic frameworks in terms of analytical and predictive power/accuracy.

I don't know if I can do the topic justice but it could be considered futuristic and represent a significant degree of progression over current methods.  And, there could be other applications that are interesting.

Uh.  Wait.  What are you writing?


----------



## Risyth (Apr 7, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> It wasn't the primary conflict of the story but it was one of the things going. The protagonist and her friend were fleeing a terrorist group of people they knew.  The central plot was the protagonist trying to save her friend from the terrorist group. The friend was involved with the terrorists because of family. Yadda yadda yadda the romance was one aspect of the whole. Love was the protagonist's motivation.
> 
> Anyway, the way I wrote it picked up momentum and dropped it.  It was meant to be a novella so I didn't have much time to park.


*Oh, it was meant to be a novella? I was going to say...if the problem is the falling action falling too quickly, you could always switch perspectives to the friend as she, I guess, struggles to come to terms with what she was told. You can tie the terrorism and stuff into that as an argument for whatever side. w*



Sanity Check said:


> .
> 
> I learn from the masters.    This is how JK Rowling outlined _The Order of the Phoenix_.
> 
> ...


*I think I know what you're saying...but I never got past the first Harry Potter movie. 

...just make it accessible to your audience! 

Maybe I'm just dumb....ww


"What am I writing"?

[SP]Eh...it's not important. :ho[/SP]*


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 7, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *Oh, it was meant to be a novella? I was going to say...if the problem is the falling action falling too quickly, you could always switch perspectives to the friend as she, I guess, struggles to come to terms with what she was told. You can tie the terrorism and stuff into that as an argument for whatever side. w*
> 
> 
> *I think I know what you're saying...but I never got past the first Harry Potter movie.
> ...



.



I showed you mine.

Now, show me yours!

In the name of equality!

edit -

Going to sleep...  G'nite!


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 7, 2015)

I tossed the first Harry Potter book in the trash after I finished it.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 7, 2015)

I read all of those books and liked them. Sure they have their issues, but they're not detrimental to the series in anyway.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 7, 2015)

Great now I have to create a document of acronyms. Thanks Creativity and Obama.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 7, 2015)

Sanity Check said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*Phew...I think that's a free pass. *




Lord Yu said:


> I tossed the first Harry Potter book in the trash after I finished it.


*Lol you hated it too? Was it her writing style? 


Well, I was five so...what can you expect? *


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 7, 2015)

I thought it was bland. I was in high school when I read it.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 7, 2015)

The first book is bland and whimsical. It's probably the most childish of all the books. They get more serious as she goes on and the tone changes. I didn't really mind that the first book was more bland as it was short and easy to read.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 7, 2015)

*Maybe I should give it another try. It's never too late...but if it's still bland like Lord Yu says, I won't move on. Serious is worse. ww*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 7, 2015)

I read all of the books for my first time around the time the last movie was coming out. I had very little interest in them before, but a friend from here convinced me to give them a try.


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 7, 2015)

I hated harry potter when I first heard about it.

I hated on it the way people hate justin bieber.

Then one of my friends who I knew had excellent taste in things, started raving about it and saying how great it was.  I thought maybe they had started doing crack and ignored it.

Then one day I was bored and watched the movie on rental from blockbuster or something.  And thought to myself it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.

Then I read the first book.  Got hooked.  It was like crack.  Read all the books, went to some of the events they had at local bookstores on harry potter release dates.  There was literally a line of pre orders snaking through the bookstore going all the way outside and around the corner of the building.  People sleeping in the book aisles till like 7 am the next morning waiting to get their copy of the latest book.

And I was forced to eat everything negative and bad I had ever said about the series as I wound up reading and re-reading some of the books 4-5 times.

Good shit.  

Almost the same exact thing happened to me with pokemon too.  I thought pokemon was lame when I first saw it.  Got hooked as if it was crack.  Good times.

.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 7, 2015)

*What made it so good? No one else really thinks it's addictive. ww
*


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 7, 2015)

I've seen some of the HP movies since chucking the first book in the trash. It's an okay franchise but nothing in it gets me too hyped to put in the time.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 7, 2015)

I actually started out hooked on the first book as a younger kid.

I read the books as they came out, but gradually got less interested in them; not really sure why.  Nothing about how childish they are, or whatever, since they get progressively more adult and dark as the books progress.  I actually half-forced myself to read the final book in one sitting on a hot day in the Utah mountains.


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 7, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *What made it so good? No one else really thinks it's addictive. ww
> *



.

The puzzles and riddles and way the narrative allows you to see a small portion of events, and you're left to try and piece together what's going on.  When you finally see the big picture, it can be cool sometimes because everything is intuitive and makes sense, even if it seemed like the complete opposite at first from the author's narrative.



Lord Yu said:


> I've seen some of the HP movies since chucking the first book in the trash. It's an okay franchise but nothing in it gets me too hyped to put in the time.



Some of the harry potter books are 800-900+ pages long.  

Its tough to compress that much text into a 2 hr film a lot is lost in translation.

Maybe I should try to re read the series to see if I can still get through it, or whether its lost its appeal.



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I actually half-forced myself to read the final book in one sitting on a hot day in the Utah mountains.



The last book was the worst in a lot of ways.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 7, 2015)

I've seen some lists of things left out. I'm not really that interested.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 7, 2015)

Sanity Check said:


> .
> 
> The puzzles and riddles and way the narrative allows you to see a small portion of events, and you're left to try and piece together what's going on.  When you finally see the big picture, it can be cool sometimes because everything is intuitive and makes sense, even if it seemed like the complete opposite at first from the author's narrative.


*That actually sounds like a very hit-or-miss approach. I don't like to leave things up to chance with readers. *


Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I actually started out hooked on the first book as a younger kid.
> 
> I read the books as they came out, but gradually got less interested in them; not really sure why.  Nothing about how childish they are, or whatever, since they get progressively more adult and dark as the books progress.  I actually half-forced myself to read the final book in one sitting on a hot day in the Utah mountains.


*Was it because you were younger when you read the first one that it seemed better?*


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 7, 2015)

I'm sure it's something like that.

It wasn't really an image thing since all my friends were either more into it than I was or at least enjoyed it; and I don't think it's poorly written or bad or childish, but I can't quite put my finger on it.  It kinda felt like I was just done with the universe or something.

I guess I find Rowling's writing kinda flat.  Maybe a little dry.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 7, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I'm sure it's something like that.
> 
> It wasn't really an image thing since all my friends were either more into it than I was or at least enjoyed it; and I don't think it's poorly written or bad or childish, but I can't quite put my finger on it.  It kinda felt like I was just done with the universe or something.
> 
> I guess I find Rowling's writing kinda flat.  Maybe a little dry.



*She wrote like Hemmingway? And...her world-building got worse and worse? Or was it the concept itself? I was never really into the "wizards" thing either.*


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 8, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *That actually sounds like a very hit-or-miss approach. I don't like to leave things up to chance with readers. *



.

I need to re-read the series.

I've been rewatching movies I used to like, only to find myself wondering what I saw in them.

The way I remember it, everything JK Rowling wrote was well constructed and perfectly executed.  The first, second and last books may be the main exceptions, if there are any.

Some of her books are 800+ pages long.  But when you read them, they don't feel 1,000 pages in the way that J.R.R. Tolkien's LOTR trilogy feels like 1,000 pages.  It feels more like a 300 page book.

Brandon Sanderson and Patrick Rothfuss are two other recent fantasy genre greats.  The Stormlight Archives by Sanderson is great.  And, Patrick Rothfuss' first book is good.  A lot of people felt let down by the 2nd.

A Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones I'm not certain about.  I get the feeling the main reason the series is popular is because it contains a lot of rape, murder, betrayal, i*c*st and a lot of things people rate highly for its epic edginess factor.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 8, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *She wrote like Hemmingway? And...her world-building got worse and worse? Or was it the concept itself? I was never really into the "wizards" thing either.*



>like Hemingway? 



No.  Hemingway is pretty fun and often makes me chuckle, sometimes guffaw.  

I can't really put my finger on it; my formulations sound more like insults or condescension when they're really not, since I don't think of her as a bad writer.   I guess a good comparison is that she writes like Brandon Sanderson, but without the massive scale and sense of world building and intricate plot weaving.  Part of her problem, to me, is that there's supposed to be this large Wizarding world outside of Hogwarts, but it feels like a JRPG where the entire world is basically Hogwarts and a few other locales.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 8, 2015)

You should try Malazan. The first book sucks but the rest of the series is epic as fuck.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 8, 2015)

Sanity Check said:


> A Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones I'm not certain about.  I get the feeling the main reason the series is popular is because it contains a lot of rape, murder, betrayal, i*c*st and a lot of things people rate highly for its epic edginess factor.



Whoa whoa whoa.

I'm far from Martin's biggest fan or any kind of proponent of the way things are going in A Song of Ice and Fire, but that's far from the truth.  I'm sure a fair share of mouthbreathers have found their way to the books after the show, but even as a teenager my draw to the books (and the people recommending them to me) made scant mention of any of the rape, sex or violence in the book.

To be frank, that last line is patently untrue and kind of insulting, even if I don't really care to continue the series anymore.  Martin is good (when he's actually doing it) at keeping the reader intrigued, fearful, hopeful and sometimes nervous about his story paths; he's good at making betrayal, politics and Medieval war fit into a darker, gritty low fantasy setting.  A lot of people found the books at a time when High Fantasy was... well, riding high, and Martin's insistence on the bloodier and less Tolkien aspects of Fantasy drew quite a crowd, and it wasn't unwarranted.

Using edgy as a pejorative is incredibly lazy; Martin may be a lot of things (including probably about to die from heart complications), but an depressed teenager he is not.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> >like Hemingway?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This was really annoying. And really even then, it was - at its core - just a "coming of age" story. Roughly half of the series revolved around Harry and his friends hitting puberty and dealing with that whole mass of drama. Voldemort's bullshit as basically just the B-story to that. I mean, ultimately, yeah, should've known that going in but it was borderline frustrating at points when I really didn't give two fucks if Hermione was interested in someone _other_ than Ron or Ginny totes wanted to marry Harry and would stab Cho in the face with her wand to make sure it happened.

And Martin is the polar opposite of edgy - he's a troll.


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 8, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Whoa whoa whoa.
> 
> I'm far from Martin's biggest fan or any kind of proponent of the way things are going in A Song of Ice and Fire, but that's far from the truth.  I'm sure a fair share of mouthbreathers have found their way to the books after the show, but even as a teenager my draw to the books (and the people recommending them to me) made scant mention of any of the rape, sex or violence in the book.
> 
> ...





krory said:


> This was really annoying. And really even then, it was - at its core - just a "coming of age" story. Roughly half of the series revolved around Harry and his friends hitting puberty and dealing with that whole mass of drama. Voldemort's bullshit as basically just the B-story to that. I mean, ultimately, yeah, should've known that going in but it was borderline frustrating at points when I really didn't give two fucks if Hermione was interested in someone _other_ than Ron or Ginny totes wanted to marry Harry and would stab Cho in the face with her wand to make sure it happened.
> 
> And Martin is the polar opposite of edgy - he's a troll.



.



edgy

Applied to books, music, or even haircuts which tend to challenge societal norms and reveal the dark side. Cutting edge.​


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 8, 2015)

I said edgy as a pejorative, as you were using it.

Nice try!


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2015)

It... doesn't challenge societal norms, though? If anything, it embraces them by exemplifying just how vile certain acts are viewed (such as the rape or i*c*st you mentioned, which really only have one, maybe two examples... barring the television show which actually adds more, for whatever reason).


----------



## Malicious Friday (Apr 8, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> >like Hemingway?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I only read the last book of the Harry Potter series and pretty much only watched the movie, but didn't the entire series more or less revolve around Harry's perspective?


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 8, 2015)

Yes.

However, Rowling's writing made the world feel incredibly small in an artificial kind of way; as in, rather than Hogwarts and co being part of a large, bustling and diverse world, the world was basically Hogwarts and Britain and everything else was kind of just there to shuffle the plot along.


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 8, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Rowling's writing made the world feel incredibly small in an artificial kind of way; as in, rather than Hogwarts and co being part of a large, bustling and diverse world, the world was basically Hogwarts and Britain and everything else was kind of just there to shuffle the plot along.



.

Its implied that the pureblood vs mudblood master race mentality led many wizarding families to frown upon having kids with non magical "mudbloods".  

The population of wizards declined over time resulting in population contraction, similar to japan.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 8, 2015)

I mean, there are mentions and tidbits, sure.

Different Wizarding Schools, 'exchange' students, Ministry of Magic, etc.  It just felt like a lot of detail went into Hogwarts, which is great, but then combined some rather barebones other institutions and locations which are jarring and make the world feel contracted.

There's flavor text in Harry Potter, but I think the way it's done largely does a disservice to the book more than anything.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2015)

Sanity Check said:


> .
> 
> Its implied that the pureblood vs mudblood master race mentality led many wizarding families to frown upon having kids with non magical "mudbloods".
> 
> The population of wizards declined over time resulting in population contraction, similar to japan.



It's never implied that _many_ did that - hence why "mudblood" is considered a taboo word. It _is_ implied, however, that the "wizarding world" is widespread, especially when you consider the various Quidditch teams.


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 8, 2015)

krory said:


> It's never implied that _many_ did that - hence why "mudblood" is considered a taboo word. It _is_ implied, however, that the "wizarding world" is widespread, especially when you consider the various Quidditch teams.



.

Every deatheater associated family did it.  That's near to half of the population.

With the exception of the Weasleys, they also had a tendency to have 2 kids or less on a regular basis.  With the casualties of wars, and the high number of bachelor hermits and hermitesses like Mundungus Fletcher, Dumbledore, Severus Snape, McGonagall, Bellatrix Lestrange and Mad Eye Moody never reproducing or having kids.

It implies the population of wizards is contracting over time to a point where they are in danger of dying out.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 8, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Whoa whoa whoa.
> 
> I'm far from Martin's biggest fan or any kind of proponent of the way things are going in A Song of Ice and Fire, but that's far from the truth.  I'm sure a fair share of mouthbreathers have found their way to the books after the show, but even as a teenager my draw to the books (and the people recommending them to me) made scant mention of any of the rape, sex or violence in the book.
> 
> ...



While I feel like Martin might be doing some stuff right, you have to admit that a fair bit of what is making the show and book more popular is that it's the kind of got that scandalous nature. The same way True Blood did. It's more apparent in the show with them having people  soliloquise in of people having sex and other silly bullshit. 

I mean there's a lot of bloodied, horrible fantasy stuff out there that's well written (Thomas Covenant comes to mind), but the thing is I think Martin has mass appeal because of the time at which we're living in and the kind of stuff people expect HBO to be. I mean I only got through two and a half of the books before I gave up and everything I've heard about what happens after has me convinced I did the right thing.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 8, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> While I feel like Martin might be doing some stuff right, you have to admit that a fair bit of what is making the show and book more popular is that it's the kind of got that scandalous nature. The same way True Blood did. It's more apparent in the show with them having people  soliloquise in of people having sex and other silly bullshit.
> 
> I mean there's a lot of bloodied, horrible fantasy stuff out there that's well written (Thomas Covenant comes to mind), but the thing is I think Martin has mass appeal because of the time at which we're living in and the kind of stuff people expect HBO to be. I mean I only got through two and a half of the books before I gave up and everything I've heard about what happens after has me convinced I did the right thing.



My ultimate point was, however, that, at least before the show started airing, the people recommending and reading A Song of Ice and Fire weren't singing tunes of 'dude, bros, it's got, like, rape and tits and gore and stuff!'

Martin does a lot of politicking that is largely absent from Fantasy in general.  Yeah, it's darker, but it's also a lot more... dry fluff and is full of long spells of no blood or rape or beheadings, and what a lot of people might call boring.  The show is an absolute crock of shit, but largely because it diminishes the good parts of the books and just throws in bare breasts and sex, and, of course, purposefully deviates from the source material for the sole reason of angering long time fans for quick controversy bux.

I'm certainly not lauding the series as the saviour of Fantasy or something I'm even actively interested in anymore, but I still can't really sit right with people actively spreading disinformation about the series.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 8, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> My ultimate point was, however, that, at least before the show started airing, the people recommending and reading A Song of Ice and Fire weren't singing tunes of 'dude, bros, it's got, like, rape and tits and gore and stuff!'
> 
> Martin does a lot of politicking that is largely absent from Fantasy in general.  Yeah, it's darker, but it's also a lot more... dry fluff and is full of long spells of no blood or rape or beheadings, and what a lot of people might call boring.  The show is an absolute crock of shit, but largely because it diminishes the good parts of the books and just throws in bare breasts and sex, and, of course, purposefully deviates from the source material for the sole reason of angering long time fans for quick controversy bux.
> 
> I'm certainly not lauding the series as the saviour of Fantasy or something I'm even actively interested in anymore, but I still can't really sit right with people actively spreading disinformation about the series.



The very first time that I heard about the books and my first several interactions with fans of the series was web buttons and banners that said "Twincest, murder, rape; they're canon in my fandom". 

This was well before the show.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 8, 2015)

Define 'well before the show.'

Of course, both our experiences are anecdotal, so it's moot regardless, but I first started reading them when I was about 14-15, which was over a decade ago; I was recommended the series by an older family friend and then, subsequently, by two teenaged friends of mine, none of whom used 'sex, gore and i*c*st' as selling points.

Maybe those people just have shit taste.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The very first time that I heard about the books and my first several interactions with fans of the series was web buttons and banners that said "Twincest, murder, rape; they're canon in my fandom".
> 
> This was well before the show.



So basically you indulged in the tumblrinas. Gotchya.

Doesn't change the _fact_ that most of that stuff (even the _murder_) isn't nearly as drummed up as things like that make it out to be. As Boskov said, the show greatly increased it. You name ten instances of rape or i*c*st (which would be hard since there aren't), then half of those weren't in the books.

_Game of Thrones_, though, (as a show) isn't popular because it's "edgy" or "scandalous" in any extreme nature like certain ignorant neanderthals believe... it's popular for the same reason that _LOST_ was popular, _The Sopranos_ was popular, and _The Walking Dead_ is popular: because it's just barely scandalous enough to classify it as a *soap opera*. Murder, rape, and i*c*st have all been focal plot-points in numerous soap operas, it's not like these things are unheard of. Hell, you hear about this shit in crime procedural shows on a weekly basis (and considering how many of those there are, that's quite a bit).

Only the truly reserved and willfully uninformed still thinks these topics are as rarely touched upon as so many claim.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 8, 2015)

Let's get back to talking about original work. Tips on making the world feel large. I have a huge world but Boskov's point made me think about how small it feels when I'm actually writing about it.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 8, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Define 'well before the show.'
> 
> Of course, both our experiences are anecdotal, so it's moot regardless, but I first started reading them when I was about 14-15, which was over a decade ago; I was recommended the series by an older family friend and then, subsequently, by two teenaged friends of mine, none of whom used 'sex, gore and i*c*st' as selling points.
> 
> Maybe those people just have shit taste.



I was on Deviant Art when I saw this so it must have been 2008 at the latest. I wasn't working my last job, I know that and the show didn't get announched until then. 

I mean, when I first heard about it this was before the mainstream hype had taken up. It put a bad taste in my mouth about the series and I didn't even give it a try until the show came out. I'm really skeptical of things written for shock value like that.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2015)

That's a problem you run into depending on how limited your narrative focus is (compared to, obviously, how large your world is). In the example of Harry Potter, as Boskov said, it's because the narrative focus was on Harry, and eighty percent of the time it's when he's at Hogwarts.

A Song of Ice and Fire, however, is difference because there's a number of narrative foci in each book, and they change with each book - a minor character may get his or her own chapter, someone who wasn't a "POV character" will be upgraded to one, and the characters are literally spread throughout the world. That helps to make it seem much more expansive.

Even just having two separate points of focus, I would think, could make all the difference in term of relative scale depending on where they are situated physically in the world.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I was on Deviant Art when I saw this...



And now everything makes sense.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 8, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> Let's get back to talking about original work. Tips on making the world feel large. I have a huge world but Boskov's point made me think about how small it feels when I'm actually writing about it.


*Um...what point was that again?*


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 8, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> Let's get back to talking about original work. Tips on making the world feel large. I have a huge world but Boskov's point made me think about how small it feels when I'm actually writing about it.



Backtracking to that conv' entirely, I'd say Rowling's biggest mistake in world building is being lazy and unconvincing with the mechanics of the world. Magic has no real structure or boundaries. It was too easy to see the narrative necessities lurking behind the way the world functioned.

Not that a well developed and brilliant magic system leads to a well developed world - look at Mistborn. 

The every day, mundane mechanics have to be acknowledged and the people within a setting have to help bring it to life. Doing this whilst simultaneously avoiding making it boring, and you're onto a winner.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 8, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> Let's get back to talking about original work. Tips on making the world feel large. I have a huge world but Boskov's point made me think about how small it feels when I'm actually writing about it.



I feel it's mostly about how you approach any kind of flavor text or non-central places, institutions or even ideas; you need to put close to the amount of effort or detail you do in your main story as you do in your flavor text, otherwise there's some kind of narrative dissonance, in my opinion.

The desire to make the world seem bigger than you an accurately portray in your limited scope of narrative is pretty common, but I think people most often suffer from finding some kind of middling road between 'vagueness' and 'info dumps.'   

And I don't think it works.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I was on Deviant Art when I saw this so it must have been 2008 at the latest. I wasn't working my last job, I know that and the show didn't get announched until then.
> 
> I mean, when I first heard about it this was before the mainstream hype had taken up. It put a bad taste in my mouth about the series and I didn't even give it a try until the show came out. I'm really skeptical of things written for shock value like that.



It seems to me that as the series got more popular (my book's note from the friend is from 2004, so it lines up), the creepy pieces of shit that crawl on their bellies in tumblr and deviantart and 4chan and reddit got wind of the things like rape, i*c*st and copious murders and ran with it, because that's what they do.

Also, I hate shock factor as much as the next guy--but simply construing _all _horrific deeds or what have you in a work seems to be discounting any author who uses it, rather than simply seeing or understanding how and when it is used as a narrative device or simply as a thing that happens in the real world.  Naturally using horrible things as shock factor, controversy bait or in a way that mocks or devalues these things, sure, I can agree with that.  I feel like we're coming to an impasse where there's a backwards series of steps into thinking anyone who uses these things in a story somehow condones or does not appreciate the severity of said experiences, and that's patently untrue and incredibly intellectually dishonest and/or naive.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 8, 2015)

Tyrael said:


> The every day, mundane mechanics have to be acknowledged and the people within a setting have to help bring it to life. Doing this whilst simultaneously avoiding making it boring, and you're onto a winner.



This.  This right here.

I think one of the biggest things people often overlook about systems of magic or whatever you want to call it is that most people don't seem to think the boring, mundane and day-to-day uses and effects they have on normal life is important, when it's arguably the most important aspect.

I still like Mistborn, warts and all, but Sanderson still managed to find ways for the Alchemy to be used in realistic ways outside of fight scenes; bouncers, cheating at games, etc.  

Likewise, Avatar: the Last Airbender littered the series with examples of the boring and mundane uses of bending, and because they did it consistently and creatively, it felt far more natural as a common and large part of the world, rather than something cooked up to progress a plot or make fight scenes cooler.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 8, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Also, I hate shock factor as much as the next guy--but simply construing _all _horrific deeds or what have you in a work seems to be discounting any author who uses it, rather than simply seeing or understanding how and when it is used as a narrative device or simply as a thing that happens in the real world.  Naturally using horrible things as shock factor, controversy bait or in a way that mocks or devalues these things, sure, I can agree with that.  I feel like we're coming to an impasse where there's a backwards series of steps into thinking anyone who uses these things in a story somehow condones or does not appreciate the severity of said experiences, and that's patently untrue and incredibly intellectually dishonest and/or naive.



Although I've only read the first book, I've found that Martin falls into a sort of middle ground with this - many people _are _drawn to ASoIaF on the back of the voyeuristic allure of forbidden relationships or the grim violence. Those elements may not be used casually or in an exploitative sense, but that does not strip them of the fact they do very much appeal to people on this level.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 8, 2015)

Tyrael said:


> Although I've only read the first book, I've found that Martin falls into a sort of middle ground with this - many people _are _drawn to ASoIaF on the back of the voyeuristic allure of forbidden relationships or the grim violence. Those elements may not be used casually or in an exploitative sense, but that does not strip them of the fact they do very much appeal to people on this level.



Oh, I agree.  In fact, I'm more than certain he indulged the kind of raunchy, bloody tone for which he became famous even more as the series went on.  

And, of course, there's always going to be those kinds of weirdos who are drawn into a series, like A Song of Ice and Fire, simply for the creepy or bloody aspects of the book; it's frustrating as a fan, no doubt.   I still try to disassociate the fans from the author, though.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 8, 2015)

I can't multiquote because I have Java script off (if I turn it on on the tablet I get bombarded with pop-ups). 

@Doc: When I left Deviant Art it was becoming worse and worse and the sort of shit you see on there now where grups brigaid and petition for little artists and the ike was just picking up steam. I haven't ever really used Tumblr or 4chan, but Reddit seems to be mostly over the books (at least it did by the time I got there). I hang out in some of the writing subreddits and you pretty much get downvoted for shit talking Martin because people are tired of everyone trying to prove how edgy they are by doing it. 

@Lord Yu: I think that a big part of it goes back to what Tyrael said; there's a huge issue in a lot of books where you can tell that the world was made to fit the plot specifically and that mechanics of the world didn't exist until later, but they are streated as if they were always there. You want to think about how day to day people live and how the world they're in influences their life. It's pretty easy to forget about them when you're writing and basically make a universe where no regular person could survive.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 8, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> This.  This right here.
> 
> I think one of the biggest things people often overlook about systems of magic or whatever you want to call it is that most people don't seem to think the boring, mundane and day-to-day uses and effects they have on normal life is important, when it's arguably the most important aspect.
> 
> ...


*Oh...okay, I see what you guys mean. You're totally right about that.*


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 9, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Yes.
> 
> However, Rowling's writing made the world feel incredibly small in an artificial kind of way; as in, rather than Hogwarts and co being part of a large, bustling and diverse world, the world was basically Hogwarts and Britain and everything else was kind of just there to shuffle the plot along.



It's a terribly British view of the world.


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Apr 9, 2015)

Sanity Check said:


> .
> 
> Every deatheater associated family did it.  That's near to half of the population.



My memory of Harry Potter is a little fuzzy, but I'm almost sure that the Death Eaters weren't _that_ big a group in Voldemort's hey day.


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 9, 2015)

Atlantic Storm said:


> My memory of Harry Potter is a little fuzzy, but I'm almost sure that the Death Eaters weren't _that_ big a group in Voldemort's hey day.



.

Everyone said the deatheaters were winning the war.

It makes sense that being the winning side gave them a lot of recruits.

Even if most of their numbers didn't survive Azkaban.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 9, 2015)

I read Harry Potter semi-recently and I remember it seeming like the war was much much less one sided. They almost lost it and there was a lot of Death Eaters running around. A lot of characters point out that he almost destroyed the entire Wizarding World and people like Delores Umbridge who you wouldn't think of as that kind of evil clearly had some of the same prejudice in her that started the Death Eaters up. There was probably a lot of people out there willing to work and live in a world free of Muggles and Muggle-borns who wouldn't actively say so or openly advertise it until the Death Eaters took power. 

On the subject of what Lord Yu mentioned: I've been reading the season eight and nine Buffy comics from Dark Horse and I have noticed that one of the biggest issues with the world he's written himself into is that between what's happened on Angel (LA being pulled into Hell completely at the end of the show) and what's happened on Buff (the whole world's potential Slayer population becoming Slayers and the world kind of reacting to the power imbalance by dumping Hell dimensions into our reality) it's the same kind of situation where humanity couldn't survive in any believable way. It makes for great awesome shit going on, but the rule of cool thing really only works if you write it where people do n't think about what's actually happening.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 9, 2015)

Magic is somewhat common place in my world. But you have to jump through a lot of hoops to be able to cast anything other than the most basic spells. The dominant intelligent species can fly so that alters culture a lot.


----------



## Krory (Apr 9, 2015)

Magic systems are a pain in the ass for me.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 9, 2015)

Same for me. I don't put a lot of description into my magic.  The rules for magic in my world are dependent on the source.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Apr 10, 2015)

How come making magic systems are hard for you people? It's a pretty easy concept to come up with for me.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 10, 2015)

What do you do?


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 10, 2015)

Making magic systems isn't hard.  
Balancing magic systems is hard, and it becomes harder and harder the more you want magic to be able to do.  At least without getting an idiot plot.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2015)

Because I either end up ripping something off (I find myself often drawn to the concept of possession and inherent dangers such as in Dragon Age - when properly demonstrated outside of deus ex machina), overcomplicating, or coming up with something I am unable to find an explanation for either due to ignorance, stupidity, or laziness (such as when I bounced off the Norwegian word for stomach being "mage", albeit pronounced differently, and considered a line of spellcasters that had to eat or drink ingredients to cast any spell - but my consideration was in line with their biology rather than the ingredients themselves having properties).


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Apr 10, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Making magic systems isn't hard.
> Balancing magic systems is hard, and it becomes harder and harder the more you want magic to be able to do.  At least without getting an idiot plot.


And then you add in other magic systems and have to figure out what can be used with what and how they interact.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 10, 2015)

Vaatu said:


> And then you add in other magic systems and have to figure out what can be used with what and how they interact.



Not to mention the subdivisions of the other magical systems and deciding if they should be interpretations of one source of magic, or giving each system their own separate sources and integrating that into the world.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Apr 10, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Not to mention the subdivisions of the other magical systems and deciding if they should be interpretations of one source of magic, or giving each system their own separate sources and integrating that into the world.


And all this before you add in people and their personalities and personal motivations, strengths, weaknesses...


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 10, 2015)

Vaatu said:


> And all this before you add in people and their personalities and personal motivations, strengths, weaknesses...



This one gets it.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 10, 2015)

My magic system is divided up by contracts to Deities. There are elementals with natural abilities. There are also special cases where humans can contract with elementals.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Apr 10, 2015)

I've created different power systems for essentially all if the races and classes in story. Essentially though it's pretty simple. There are the three divine states of matter Mana(gas), Telesma(liquid), and orichalchum(solid). And then there are the four life aspects Spirit Energy(spirit), Astral Energy(Mind), Ethereal Energy(Heart), and Alchemy(Matter).

Then the Angels and Devas use a divine flame and lighting that have properties of nuclear fusion and fission with some creative ebellishments, Demons and Asuras have demonic flames and lightning with properties of atomic annihilation with more creative embellishments, and Aeons and Reapers control time and space respectively.

All in all I think I've managed to make a pretty balanced and interesting set of powers for just about everyone


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 11, 2015)

My magic is more general use and mundane so only really a few have unique skills.


----------



## ~M~ (Apr 11, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> My magic is more general use and mundane so only really a few have unique skills.



I prefer this magical approach
Just my two cents 


It makes most sense to me if there's a universe everyone would have "some" aptitude to use magic or magical tools, being able to light a cigarette with the tips of your fingers for example. But that same person couldn't throw a fireball. He's a normal person

And like how there are those talented/trained/dedicated in the real world and excel at amazing feats, those are the ones with magical efficacy to do otherworldly shit. 

Although in my own headcannon universe that I've never really written down there's 314 people who were born when the earth re-awoken its magical energies and have extraordinary power without training, and pseudo-immortality


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2015)

You know what? Fuck magic.


----------



## ~M~ (Apr 11, 2015)

Honestly magic is more manageable and believable than writing sci-fi
Sci-fi is like magic that should make sense but doesn't particularly


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2015)

In my experience people are more willing to let sci-fi that doesn't make sense slide than magic that doesn't make sense, because sci-fi rule of cool is cooler.

Then again, people are also retards.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 11, 2015)

Tons of ao thors have no rules for magic.  It's magic, it can do anything!


----------



## ~M~ (Apr 11, 2015)

Battlestar Galactica is my ideal sci-fi (not a book obviously but the screenplay practically could be) and it's strongest points were generally centered around the characters (ofc) but when things became convoluted with the Cylons, since it made little sense, the audience wasn't too happy...


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 17, 2015)

This thread has been dormant long enough.

I've been wondering about one of my characters. I wonder if she is too creepy.  Aside from being a reformed serial killer, (Attempting) she pervs on both my teenaged protagonists. (And I mean _really_ pervs on them) Though biologically she's nineteen her actual age is over 120. (She died and was revived)

This is not an antagonist here if anything she's fast becoming the tritagonist. (I can't help it she's fun to write)


----------



## ~M~ (Apr 17, 2015)

Well, too creepy for what? The intention of someone who pervs, in other word creeps, on the protagonists can either come across as comical if lighthearted, though to come across as an actual creep requires heavy-handing. 

Things that are creepy, aliens and horror, "The Picture of Dorian Grey" or "1984" feel so because of an extreme sense of distance and difference, whereas what you're describing is actually quite close to two people even if only one sided which most readers will connect to. Creep has always been in behavior more than background so it depends entirely on how aloof this character is and of course the severity of reactions she incurs. 

Someone emotionally detached (doesn't make much sense with perving) and cruel (usually abnormal therein) comes across as actually creepy, but anything falling short of that (your characters short description does) is really just "freaky" but not offputting. Possibly attractive or funny, at the very least fascinating. A person is fascinated by the unknown or different, but terrified when the unknown is overwhelming or vast. Some people have the urge to pick up strange objects out of curiosity but the same person may not enter an incredibly decayed, dark, building out of fear. 

So I suppose the essence of my previous point is that curiosity and fear are close but very different and in fact when a character's background is apparent they quickly become less scary and more of a curiosity, going forward.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 17, 2015)

The character as portrayed is the very opposite of creepy.  Her lecherous advances are played mostly for laughs.  She's a very warm and funny character despite her bloody backstory.  I was just very concerned that my weaboo lenses were making me ignore potentially alienating factors.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 23, 2015)

*I think this convo is sleeping for centuries. w*


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 23, 2015)

I'm honing in on a proper ending to this volume. 

But, at the same time I'm also going to dive in to one of the most problematic aspects of my plot. The protagonists' Earth origins.  I might have my work cut out for me to prevent total tonal whiplash.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 23, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> I'm honing in on a proper ending to this volume.
> 
> But, at the same time I'm also going to dive in to one of the most problematic aspects of my plot. The protagonists' Earth origins.  I might have my work cut out for me to prevent total tonal whiplash.



*What about interspersing information among the earlier chapters or volumes?*


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 23, 2015)

I've loaded plenty. Still probably going to be a bit jarring.  My male protagonist, Miguel, his maternal family is a really normal middle class family, no magic on that side and they don't know magic exists.  Miguel is an odd one and when put next to them he stands out. 

Bah, I'm gonna write this section damn the consequences, I feel it needs to be done.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 24, 2015)

The experiment where I write on Google Docs exclusively was fun while it lasted, but as the document gets longer it's harder and harder to load it and travel back and forth through it. So, I've decided that I will store the story there and write it in the copy of Word that I have left on the desktop.

I never really bother with working on it anywhere outside of the house at this point. 

Also, I've realized that I just need to push forward with all of the gory, strange ideas that I have and stop worrying about taking it too far. What works will work and what doesn't will be taken out by someone down the line or myself if it comes to it. 

There will come a point that I have to go back and work at a lot of this anyway.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 24, 2015)

I've decided to write the scene I was talking about it the second book. It feels more right as a scene to come at the end of part 1.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 24, 2015)

Pretty solid writing advice all round I'd say:

here


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 24, 2015)

Tyrael said:


> Pretty solid writing advice all round I'd say:
> 
> here



I think what is so off putting about a lot of the harder science fiction I've come across is how often it starts out trying to explain the whole world to you.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 24, 2015)

Fantasy is much worse for that tbh. Just endless descriptions of settings without really telling you anything about the story or characters.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 27, 2015)

I'm writing a new intro chapter as I write my closing chapters.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 27, 2015)

I've pretty much resigned myself to rewriting earlier chapters, later stuff never really fits with it, and it's always pretty awkward.


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 27, 2015)

Still in the planning stages.

Thinking of abandoning planning altogether and just winging it to gain more experience under my belt.

.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 27, 2015)

Wing it preplanning is for suckers. You never know where it's gonna go until you start writing something.


----------



## Krory (Apr 27, 2015)

As someone who exclusively preplans and never does anything, I agree.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> Wing it preplanning is for suckers. You never know where it's gonna go until you start writing something.



Some people are only able to work if they plan things out. Sometimes they write outlines as extensive as a short story. 

The only real issue with planning is that not everything works like you'd expect and sometimes new ideas come into play. It's best when you can plan and at the same time are flexible enough to use a good idea when it comes up.


----------



## ~M~ (Apr 28, 2015)

I've only ever done poetry but I think my writing style would be best for a cohesive series of short stories rather than a novel. The format would be more loose and exploratory. 

That being said I need to continue work on the first short story I've started. 

When I approach painting and sculpture overplanning is something I agree with Yu, I have a general idea and let it grow naturally from there. 

Even moreso with my graphic design work. I don't plan it, I let it speak to me. And I think this is successful given that it's won me a lot of competitions. Flexibility is probably the most useful, and maybe only tool besides vocabulary, an author needs. 

An outline as extensive as a short story.... Well you see I would just call that a rough draft. Is a rough draft planning? I don't really think so it's just that you add to it like anything else and the process should be as organic as possible. 

Gestural qualities are something that audiences respond well too. If you don't know what I mean by that look up gesture drawings, etc. It's capturing the movement or essence of something. The same can be done with writing. 

The Romantic poets used gestural moments of inspiration as their main gems. Capturing the ephemeral is both hard and imperative and you can't tie yourself down with a plan and miss it. 

As my speech writing teacher puts it, when you're out hunting, you're going to be tempted by rabbits. But you're going after the deer. The rabbits are nice and get them if you can but you came for the deer and don't miss your chance because you thought you spotted something pretty


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2015)

~M~ said:


> I've only ever done poetry but I think my writing style would be best for a cohesive series of short stories rather than a novel. The format would be more loose and exploratory.
> 
> That being said I need to continue work on the first short story I've started.
> 
> ...




I meant a very, very short story. You know, something like five typed pages.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 28, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Some people are only able to work if they plan things out. Sometimes they write outlines as extensive as a short story.
> 
> The only real issue with planning is that not everything works like you'd expect and sometimes new ideas come into play. It's best when you can plan and at the same time are flexible enough to use a good idea when it comes up.



*Agree completely.*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 4, 2015)

This thread's been quiet. I guess as kind of a general question, has anyone here had a character do drugs in their story?


----------



## Lord Yu (May 4, 2015)

I have had a character experiment with hard drugs in one of my stories. I mostly stick to alcohol, smoking, and pills like a good American.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 4, 2015)

Since I'm dealing with a pair of sixteen year olds and things are more lighthearted I'm probably going to keep it down to weed and drinking.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 4, 2015)

Is power a drug?


----------



## Lord Yu (May 4, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Since I'm dealing with a pair of sixteen year olds and things are more lighthearted I'm probably going to keep it down to weed and drinking.



The character in question is fifteen.

Also plenty of teens on Molly and coke. (Cocaine has returned to the fashion industry)


----------



## ~M~ (May 4, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Is power a drug?



Look at your sig and we have an answer?



Lord Yu said:


> The character in question is fifteen.
> 
> Also plenty of teens on Molly and coke. (Cocaine has returned to the fashion industry)


Don't think cocaine has left the fashion industry bby


----------



## Lord Yu (May 4, 2015)

Too true, they do love their booger sugar.


----------



## ~M~ (May 4, 2015)

Molly is an interesting addition though. I need to write memoirs on my drug usage.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 4, 2015)

~M~ said:


> Look at your sig and we have an answer?
> 
> 
> Don't think cocaine has left the fashion industry bby



I'm certain the sig person also habits hookers and blow.


----------



## ~M~ (May 4, 2015)

Power is probably the oldest and most tragic definition of "drug/addiction" one can find 

It's really a rhetorical proposition unless you meant to delve further in


----------



## Krory (May 4, 2015)

Screw drinking, cannibalism is the way to go.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 4, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> The character in question is fifteen.
> 
> Also plenty of teens on Molly and coke. (Cocaine has returned to the fashion industry)



I'm going to have her explain that stuff like cocaine is a bad idea because she's already a fit teenaged angel energy isn't in short supply.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 4, 2015)

For anyone interested.


----------



## Risyth (May 5, 2015)

*This is a college course?*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 5, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *This is a college course?*



Yeah, for free.


----------



## Risyth (May 5, 2015)

*Well, it's free at least.

I wouldn't mind trying it. I'm not sure how much I need it...I don't even believe in beta readers.


...but......free.... *


----------



## Sanity Check (May 5, 2015)

krory said:


> Screw drinking, cannibalism is the way to go.



.

That's funny.

I wonder if the tv show Hannibal will spark an uptick in cannabilism trends, similar to how Twilight sparked an uptick in teens wanting to be vampires.


----------



## Lord Yu (May 7, 2015)

Nah, Hannibal is a low ratings cult show barely avoiding cancellation despite what it looks like from the internet.


----------



## ~M~ (May 8, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> Nah, Hannibal is a low ratings cult show barely avoiding cancellation despite what it looks like from the internet.



Lmao luc and wad rave about it


----------



## Buskuv (May 8, 2015)

Hey, Hannibal is great.


----------



## ~M~ (May 8, 2015)

However, is cannibalism the reason? Haven't watched


----------



## Tyrael (May 8, 2015)

Well it's based on a series of intermittently great movies that are based on a series of mostly great books. I suspect that helps.

Not watched it myself though.


----------



## Furious George (May 8, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> For anyone interested.



Signed up.


----------



## Buskuv (May 8, 2015)

Tyrael said:


> Well it's based on a series of intermittently great movies that are based on a series of mostly great books. I suspect that helps.
> 
> Not watched it myself though.



It holds a little more true to the books, if I recall correctly, but only really for the first season, or most of it.  They go Game of Thrones in the later seasons, but in an expressly not shitty way--like Game of Thrones.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 8, 2015)

It shocks me that Game of Thrones took off like it did.


----------



## Buskuv (May 8, 2015)

I think there really wasn't much competition at the time.

What other adult fantasy series were running when it came out?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 8, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I think there really wasn't much competition at the time.
> 
> What other adult fantasy series were running when it came out?



I guess none, but people act like they're so into it. Then they can't name the characters


----------



## Buskuv (May 8, 2015)

Of course.

I have a friend who's mad into all these big cape movies who has never read an entire comic book aside from the Buffy and Angel collections.  She goes nuts every time one comes out, but has no idea about anything going on.

There's always going to be people like that.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 9, 2015)

Does anyone generally dislike the idea of making little things like this to promote their books? 

This was done by a guy I know who wrote a vampire novel thing.


----------



## Lord Yu (May 9, 2015)

Have to promote somehow.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 9, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Of course.
> 
> I have a friend who's mad into all these big cape movies who has never read an entire comic book aside from the Buffy and Angel collections.  She goes nuts every time one comes out, but has no idea about anything going on.
> 
> There's always going to be people like that.



My neighbor doesn't really know her stuff as well and I have to kind of explain things to her a lot of the time, but she's knows the names of the heroes and all. 

I get people not reading comics or even the novels things are based on, but I don't get people who can't remember the names of characters like Tyrion. 

I guess it doesn't help that Martin seemed determined to make the names weird and samey. 



Lord Yu said:


> Have to promote somehow.



Sky writing.


----------



## Lord Yu (May 13, 2015)

Finished what would be the last chapter of my first book but then decided I probably should have a short epilogue. 

I also still have to rewrite numerous chapters and edit even more.


----------



## Puppetry (May 13, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Does anyone generally dislike the idea of making little things like this to promote their books?
> [sp][/sp]
> This was done by a guy I know who wrote a vampire novel thing.



In principle, no. In practice, I hate promo posters like this because they're generally unattractive. If (read:when) you're going to incorporate artwork, it needs to be aesthetically pleasing. That just looks like a bit of bad Photoshop.

A lot of these posters are also pretty generic. A little more personal flare would help them to stand out.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 13, 2015)

Puppetry said:


> In principle, no. In practice, I hate promo posters like this because they're generally unattractive. If (read:when) you're going to incorporate artwork, it needs to be aesthetically pleasing. That just looks like a bit of bad Photoshop.
> 
> A lot of these posters are also pretty generic. A little more personal flare would help them to stand out.



Yeah, I know the guy who did this. He's super into being all DIY with his work.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 15, 2015)

I've hit the point where I need to worry about what characters like Lucifer and the other Angels do (they're not really in the book yet, but they will be shortly) and I'm kind of struggling with the idea of whether or not I should just bite the bullet and make them nigh Omnipotent. At first it seemed like a bad idea, but what's making me court it is the idea that I could ramp up the threat. 

The fear I have with this is creating a world where things become too serious all of the time. Smaller challenges that could be interesting in a way aren't even an ordeal for your characters because they can simply flick their wrist at the thing and it's done how they want. 

I had really been going for a less powerful version of the Angels, but it really doesn't mesh well with the idea of what little we're told about Angels. They'd have to be ultra scary if they were meant to be warriors for an all mighty or near all mighty being.


----------



## ?clair (May 15, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Does anyone generally dislike the idea of making little things like this to promote their books?
> 
> This was done by a guy I know who wrote a vampire novel thing.



That is a huge turn-off. If you're going to write a decent book, at least try to make a decent poster. Those kind of tacky things just make me avoid the book altogether, because if the author doesn't give a damn as to how they're presenting their work, then who's to say the book is any good either?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 15, 2015)

?clair said:


> That is a huge turn-off. If you're going to write a decent book, at least try to make a decent poster. Those kind of tacky things just make me avoid the book altogether, because if the author doesn't give a damn as to how they're presenting their work, then who's to say the book is any good either?



Well writers aren't necessarily graphic designers. If you're going to do these you should probably pay to have someone else do it. I'm decent with Photoshop, but I wouldn't attempt to make promotional stuff for my own stuff.


----------



## ?clair (May 15, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Well writers aren't necessarily graphic designers. If you're going to do these you should probably pay to have someone else do it. I'm decent with Photoshop, but I wouldn't attempt to make promotional stuff for my own stuff.



Exactly. Which is why I said that if you can't make a poster yourself (i.e., you're not a fucking awesome graphic designer), don't. It just makes you look careless and unbothered about how your book is viewed by others. Just pay someone to do it or avoid it altogether. 

Note that I'm using "you" in the general sense, not towards you. :33


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 15, 2015)

?clair said:


> Exactly. Which is why I said that if you can't make a poster yourself (i.e., you're not a fucking awesome graphic designer), don't. It just makes you look careless and unbothered about how your book is viewed by others. Just pay someone to do it or avoid it altogether.
> 
> Note that I'm using "you" in the general sense, not towards you. :33



I actually honestly thought about going out and finding someone to model for a cover when I was looking at self publishing. The thing that really put a stop to that was the fact that it would be creepy to look for high school girls and a young asian kid on craigslist or some shit.


----------



## ?clair (May 15, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I actually honestly thought about going out and finding someone to model for a cover when I was looking at self publishing. The thing that really put a stop to that was the fact that it would be creepy to look for high school girls and a young asian kid on craigslist or some shit.



There's always stock images. A little bit of Liquify in Photoshop could help sculpt the face into what you want. Plus, it's free! 

Are you still looking into self-publishing?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 15, 2015)

?clair said:


> There's always stock images. A little bit of Liquify in Photoshop could help sculpt the face into what you want. Plus, it's free!
> 
> Are you still looking into self-publishing?



I'm probably not going to. I'm too lazy for all that self promotion. I'm a writer. I'm not some kind of PR person. 

Chances are I will be pissed as my book cover. They're probably going to put some girl on there that looks nothing like my girl.


----------



## ?clair (May 15, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I'm probably not going to. I'm too lazy for all that self promotion. I'm a writer. I'm not some kind of PR person.
> 
> Chances are I will be pissed as my book cover. They're probably going to put some girl on there that looks nothing like my girl.



Ouch, yes. I know that feeling. I'm very picky when it comes to book covers, even though _you shouldn't judge a book by its cover_. I can't help it. 

Hire moar ppl = ??? = possible profit.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 15, 2015)

?clair said:


> Ouch, yes. I know that feeling. I'm very picky when it comes to book covers, even though _you shouldn't judge a book by its cover_. I can't help it.
> 
> Hire moar ppl = ??? = possible profit.



Well if you're going through a publisher you don't really get to have much say in how the cover looks. There have been some little controversies over things like books that have a black cast having a cover with white people on it. And most of the YA market seems to try to put these impossibly pretty women on the cover who clearly look like they're in their twenties. 

Between those kinds of covers and television shows I'm not even sure what a real sixteen year old even looks like anymore. 



Totally sixteen folks.


----------



## ?clair (May 15, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Well if you're going through a publisher you don't really get to have much say in how the cover looks. There have been some little controversies over things like books that have a black cast having a cover with white people on it. And most of the YA market seems to try to put these impossibly pretty women on the cover who clearly look like they're in their twenties.
> 
> Between those kinds of covers and television shows I'm not even sure what a real sixteen year old even looks like anymore.
> 
> ...



YA has such a bad rep, though. It's sad. _Penryn and the End of Days_ is probably one of my top ten books, but because of shitty work like _Hush, Hush_ and _The Mortal Instruments_, people just automatically assume the entire genre is rancid.

She just went through puberty early. You just jealous.  Lol, no. Pretty book cover, but the book itself was pretty meh. 

Next thing you know, Hermione Granger is a hot Asian chick because why not. Yellow Fever.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 15, 2015)

?clair said:


> YA has such a bad rep, though. It's sad. _Penryn and the End of Days_ is probably one of my top ten books, but because of shitty work like _Hush, Hush_ and _The Mortal Instruments_, people just automatically assume the entire genre is rancid.
> 
> She just went through puberty early. You just jealous.  Lol, no. Pretty book cover, but the book itself was pretty meh.
> 
> Next thing you know, Hermione Granger is a hot Asian chick because why not. Yellow Fever.



Unearthly is a really good book. To date it's the best YA I've seen about Angels and it's one of the best of those after Twilight things. It hits the notes right, the main character isn't bitching about being ugly all of the time and the mythology is pretty well defined. The author actually went to the source material which is a thing that's unheard of in YA.

Edit: how many YA covers feature girls in fancy dresses in the woods. 



Alternate cover for the book.


----------



## ?clair (May 15, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Unearthly is a really good book. To date it's the best YA I've seen about Angels and it's one of the best of those after Twilight things. It hits the notes right, the main character isn't bitching about being ugly all of the time and the mythology is pretty well defined. The author actually went to the source material which is a thing that's unheard of in YA.
> 
> Edit: how many YA covers feature girls in fancy dresses in the woods.
> 
> ...



Hmm, I liked the first cover better...

That may be true, as I've heard some really good reviews about it, but the summary itself doesn't make me want to rush to the nearest booksh—sorry. I mean. Open a new tab and download it from some e-book shop or whatever. Rest in peace, bookshops. 

I suppose I'm just too picky.  I do like _The Lunar Chronicles_, though. Have you read those?

EDIT: If it's unclear, I _have_ read a bit of _Unearthly_, but I can't seem to get into it.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 15, 2015)

?clair said:


> Hmm, I liked the first cover better...
> 
> That may be true, as I've heard some really good reviews about it, but the summary itself doesn't make me want to rush to the nearest booksh?sorry. I mean. Open a new tab and download it from some e-book shop or whatever. Rest in peace, bookshops.
> 
> ...



I was considering re-reading it to see if it held up. But I only read it like a year ago on the recommendation of a friend of mine. The big thing about it for me was that I felt the main character wasn't an idiot and the Mom character wasn't completely useless or just leaving her daughter to the wolves.


----------



## ?clair (May 15, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I was considering re-reading it to see if it held up. But I only read it like a year ago on the recommendation of a friend of mine. The big thing about it for me was that I felt the main character wasn't an idiot and the Mom character wasn't completely useless or just leaving her daughter to the wolves.



If you want awesome heroine numero uno, read _Penryn and the End of Days_. The main female and male are great; the romance isn't rushed (there _is_ no romance in the first book, IIRC), the plot is better than what you'd expect of a run-of-the-mill YA paranormal romance, and the male protagonist isn't some alpha jackass. 

Plus, she names his sword Pookybear.


----------



## Krory (May 15, 2015)

>Young Adult
>No mention of Garth Nix's Old Kingdom series 

Y'all can drop dead.


----------



## ?clair (May 15, 2015)

krory said:


> >Young Adult
> >No mention of Garth Nix's Old Kingdom series
> 
> Y'all can drop dead.





Googled it, looks good. I'll read it sometime this week, once I'm done with my math.


----------



## Tyrael (May 15, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Well if you're going through a publisher you don't really get to have much say in how the cover looks. There have been some little controversies over things like books that have a black cast having a cover with white people on it. And most of the YA market seems to try to put these impossibly pretty women on the cover who clearly look like they're in their twenties.
> 
> Between those kinds of covers and television shows I'm not even sure what a real sixteen year old even looks like anymore.
> 
> ...



The cover of the book I'm reading atm, Heroes Die, is just outright a lie. It looks as if the person who decided the cover hasn't read beyond the first chapter.

It outright says "a fantasy novel" on the cover when the book is just as much a sci-fi and it has a random quote from the first chapter that doesn't have much to do with the rest of the book.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 16, 2015)

So I have two characters who are best friends and the one of them has no mother (her mother left years ago when she was little). 

The one who has a mom is kind of like home base for the other girl and it seems odd having her call the mother Miss Metzger or something like that. But it feels like it would get really confusing really fast to have her just outright call her Mom. 

Not sure what I'm going to do because there's a lot of things to take into consideration (the age of the parent and the personality, the relationship and the closeness, etc).

I'm also considering moving this book to San Antonio since I live there and nothing really ever gets written about the place. There's nothing I can think of I'm doing in Austin with the story that I can't also do in San Antonio. 



Tyrael said:


> The cover of the book I'm reading atm, Heroes Die, is just outright a lie. It looks as if the person who decided the cover hasn't read beyond the first chapter.
> 
> It outright says "a fantasy novel" on the cover when the book is just as much a sci-fi and it has a random quote from the first chapter that doesn't have much to do with the rest of the book.



Yeah, you can just tell some of the people deciding on the book covers don't know what the Hell they're dealing with. It can totally fuck your sales over too. If you write something that's science fiction and it gets marketed as high fantasy you're basically being sold to the wrong audience.


----------



## ?clair (May 16, 2015)

Basically, if you want your book to sell, don't be a cheapskate, and pay attention to the details.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 16, 2015)

?clair said:


> Basically, if you want your book to sell, don't be a cheapskate, and pay attention to the details.



When you go with a publisher you usually have zero control over things like covers.


----------



## ?clair (May 16, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> When you go with a publisher you usually have zero control over things like covers.



Your best bet, then, would be to go for a good publisher. 

I still can't get over how beautiful this cover is.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 16, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I actually honestly thought about going out and finding someone to model for a cover when I was looking at self publishing. The thing that really put a stop to that was the fact that it would be creepy to look for high school girls and a young asian kid on craigslist or some shit.



Now you know why they use 26 year olds for the covers.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 16, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Now you know why they use 26 year olds for the covers.



Big publishing firms can probably find a model that looks the age without setting off too many creep alarms. I've known a few people that I actually could ask that looked young enough to do some of the stuff, but the thing is that it's about a pose and clothes and a location. If I had to pull a cover together I could probably do something (well except for the Asian dude), but I don't want to worry about it since I'm not doing the self publishing thing anymore. 

I don't think it would be a good fit for me.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 16, 2015)

This is one of the most interesting things I've read related to writing.


----------



## Krory (May 16, 2015)

One of these days, I'll actually write something.


----------



## ?clair (May 17, 2015)

That's what I keep telling myself.

Two chapters in, I suddenly have amnesia.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 17, 2015)

If you're going to start something it's worth looking into that kind of formula thing. It's not something rigid that you have to follow to the letter and I'm kind of playing around with the idea of working it into my stuff. 

Also considering killing a character.


----------



## ?clair (May 17, 2015)

Oh, you mean the ?

I haven't tried it yet, but I think I just might do it today. I'm bored and my head hurts; what better way to pass time than write?

I guess my problem is that I get discouraged from a lack of feedback. :\


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 17, 2015)

Other than the bits I share here and the stuff I show one of the members here I don't get any feedback really. I feel best working without it because I think it helps to develop these things in a sort of vacuum before letting them out to be seen. When I've tried to talk to others about the stuff I am working on as it's happening on writing forums and the like there tends to be a lot of negativity so I stopped.


----------



## ?clair (May 17, 2015)

That, and you begin to deviate from your original idea. Other writers tend to think that they know better, and will attempt to "change" your story so that it fits better with what _they_ think a good book should be.

Frustrating, really.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 17, 2015)

?clair said:


> That, and you begin to deviate from your original idea. Other writers tend to think that they know better, and will attempt to "change" your story so that it fits better with what _they_ think a good book should be.
> 
> Frustrating, really.



It's more that I tend to find that people want you to write only about literary type things. No fantasy or science fiction or anything of the type. I'm not interested in doing that and not wanting to do that doesn't make me not a real writer or something. 

People are going to suggest changes that are good a lot of the time too. But I am learning that some people don't even know what changes have to be made. One girl I let read what I was working on wrote in the margins not to use University of Texas as a place. Sorry, the story takes place in Austin and the school is all over downtown. It's kind of hard to write realistically about the city and just avoid it.


----------



## ?clair (May 17, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It's more that I tend to find that people want you to write only about literary type things. No fantasy or science fiction or anything of the type. I'm not interested in doing that and not wanting to do that doesn't make me not a real writer or something.
> 
> People are going to suggest changes that are good a lot of the time too. But I am learning that some people don't even know what changes have to be made. One girl I let read what I was working on wrote in the margins not to use University of Texas as a place. Sorry, the story takes place in Austin and the school is all over downtown. It's kind of hard to write realistically about the city and just avoid it.



Define literary type things? You mean contemporary, slice of life, that sort of thing? I love writing fantasy or paranormal. Whoever said that writing is a way to escape from reality is right; it feels amazing to be able to create a whole new world and take control over it.

Yeah, but most of the time, they won't force you into it. I once posted a draft on a writing forum, and there was this one guy who kept telling me to switch genres because "he didn't like paranormal". Excuse me, what the fuck. I'm not writing to sate your needs, I'm writing because I want to.

Did you ask her why she thought so?

Some people, really...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 17, 2015)

?clair said:


> Define literary type things? You mean contemporary, slice of life, that sort of thing? I love writing fantasy or paranormal. Whoever said that writing is a way to escape from reality is right; it feels amazing to be able to create a whole new world and take control over it.
> 
> Yeah, but most of the time, they won't force you into it. I once posted a draft on a writing forum, and there was this one guy who kept telling me to switch genres because "he didn't like paranormal". Excuse me, what the fuck. I'm not writing to sate your needs, I'm writing because I want to.
> 
> ...



I guess she thought that it could get you in legal trouble, but as long as you're not painting the school in a bad light I don't think that would be an issue. I try to use real locations when I can and when I move the story here (which I'm thinking about doing because it's kind of an ignored city) I'll have one character teaching at the big college here and lots of other little things about the city thrown in there. 

When I say literary I mean the sort of high brow stuff that doesn't claim to have a genre. If you ask me everything does fit into a genre or genres, though. People can claim all they want that something like No Country For Old Men isn't a Western, but they're wrong.


----------



## ?clair (May 17, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I guess she thought that it could get you in legal trouble, but as long as you're not painting the school in a bad light I don't think that would be an issue. I try to use real locations when I can and when I move the story here (which I'm thinking about doing because it's kind of an ignored city) I'll have one character teaching at the big college here and lots of other little things about the city thrown in there.
> 
> When I say literary I mean the sort of high brow stuff that doesn't claim to have a genre. If you ask me everything does fit into a genre or genres, though. People can claim all they want that something like No Country For Old Men isn't a Western, but they're wrong.



No, it can't. Even if you paint it in a bad light, I really doubt they could do anything, because it's _fiction_. 

Ah, I see. Whatever their reasoning might be, every book has a major genre. It might not be prevalent throughout the entire book, but it's the foundation, so to say. If _Harry Potter_ never diverged from the "kill Voldemort" mantra, I don't think many would've continued to read it. Even the readers need a break, be it in the form of nonsensical conversations between the characters or just mundane, everyday-life stuff.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (May 18, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> So I have two characters who are best friends and the one of them has no mother (her mother left years ago when she was little).
> 
> The one who has a mom is kind of like home base for the other girl and it seems odd having her call the mother Miss Metzger or something like that. But it feels like it would get really confusing really fast to have her just outright call her Mom.
> 
> Not sure what I'm going to do because there's a lot of things to take into consideration (the age of the parent and the personality, the relationship and the closeness, etc).


Shorten it to Miss Metz? Less proper than the full but not as informal as her first name or nickname.

Or go for Mama Metz(ger)?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 18, 2015)

?clair said:


> No, it can't. Even if you paint it in a bad light, I really doubt they could do anything, because it's _fiction_.
> 
> Ah, I see. Whatever their reasoning might be, every book has a major genre. It might not be prevalent throughout the entire book, but it's the foundation, so to say. If _Harry Potter_ never diverged from the "kill Voldemort" mantra, I don't think many would've continued to read it. Even the readers need a break, be it in the form of nonsensical conversations between the characters or just mundane, everyday-life stuff.



The thing is that there are things in fiction that can get you sued. If I type out the entire lyrics to a song or copy from some other author word for word you can get into huge trouble. Also I'm pretty sure that if you do something like talk about how shitty some real company is that they can ask to be removed from the book. 

Literary books often claim to be the literary genre. But a lot of those books have elements that could easily put them into other categories. 



Vaatu said:


> Shorten it to Miss Metz? Less proper than the full but not as informal as her first name or nickname.
> 
> Or go for Mama Metz(ger)?



Miss Metz sounds like the kind of thing that someone would say in a television show or movie to sound kind of trendy or cool. The two huge names I was kind of bouncing between Annemarie (the friend) calling her friend's mother Miss Metzger, Mom, or Kara (the mother's first name).


----------



## Atlantic Storm (May 18, 2015)

_"That's what I keep telling myself._

_ Two chapters in, I suddenly have amnesia._"​One chapter in, I lose interest and my attention drifts elsewhere. Count yourself lucky, I say.


----------



## ?clair (May 18, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The thing is that there are things in fiction that can get you sued. If I type out the entire lyrics to a song or copy from some other author word for word you can get into huge trouble. Also I'm pretty sure that if you do something like talk about how shitty some real company is that they can ask to be removed from the book.
> 
> Literary books often claim to be the literary genre. But a lot of those books have elements that could easily put them into other categories.



That's true, but since the name is so ambiguous (University of XYZ) that you could just substitute it for some other title, does that even count? For example, I could base something in Scotland and have a university there named University of Scotland; it would still be fictitious, wouldn't it?

Literature =/= genre, so I don't get how people just generalize everything into either being a "classic work" or "contemporary" or whatever. 



Atlantic Storm said:


> _"That's what I keep telling myself._
> 
> _ Two chapters in, I suddenly have amnesia._"​One chapter in, I lose interest and my attention drifts elsewhere. Count yourself lucky, I say.



Your attention span was strangely short from the start, Goosey.


----------



## Lord Yu (May 18, 2015)

I think I might have inverted my own title.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 18, 2015)

?clair said:


> That's true, but since the name is so ambiguous (University of XYZ) that you could just substitute it for some other title, does that even count? For example, I could base something in Scotland and have a university there named University of Scotland; it would still be fictitious, wouldn't it?
> 
> Literature =/= genre, so I don't get how people just generalize everything into either being a "classic work" or "contemporary" or whatever.
> 
> ...



The thing is that I try to use a little made up stuff as possible. There are times where I just do it because there's a strong need to have something that might exist, but I don't have knowledge of it (like a clothing shop that sells a specific type of clothing). For the most part I try to use real locations or things that could be real. 

I try to make sure that if I place something in a part of town it fits that part of town and the like.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (May 18, 2015)

?clair said:


> Oh, you mean the ?
> 
> I haven't tried it yet, but I think I just might do it today. I'm bored and my head hurts; what better way to pass time than write?
> 
> I guess my problem is that I get discouraged from a lack of feedback. :\





Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Other than the bits I share here and the stuff I show one of the members here I don't get any feedback really. I feel best working without it because I think it helps to develop these things in a sort of vacuum before letting them out to be seen. When I've tried to talk to others about the stuff I am working on as it's happening on writing forums and the like there tends to be a lot of negativity so I stopped.



i think i've written about it here before, but have you guys ever used critiquecircle.com? everything is divided up by genre, and members are asked to read/review the work of others a number of times before they can post. the feedback was great, but reviewing was exhausting- it helped that i could stay within my own genre when choosing a story to critique though.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 18, 2015)

ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> i think i've written about it here before, but have you guys ever used critiquecircle.com? everything is divided up by genre, and members are asked to read/review the work of others a number of times before they can post. the feedback was great, but reviewing was exhausting- it helped that i could stay within my own genre when choosing a story to critique though.



I think you mentioned it. Most of the issue is I am kind of wary about putting stuff on sites like that in it's entirety and I'm not really done with enough of this thing to put it out for people to read in general. 

There's a lot of stuff I have to work on. I still haven't exactly decided on a definite protagonist and antagonist or any of that. The plot is kind of convoluted and I really don't want it to be so and the characters kind of morphing. I just had a background character jump to being a main and I'm trying to reconcile that.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (May 18, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Miss Metz sounds like the kind of thing that someone would say in a television show or movie to sound kind of trendy or cool.


Meh, I know plenty who say it in real life.
They may have picked it up from tv shows. They may not have. Shortening the name is the quick and easy method for nicknaming.


> The two huge names I was kind of bouncing between Annemarie (the friend) calling her friend's mother Miss Metzger, Mom, or Kara (the mother's first name).


Whatever fits their relationship better. Why Miss instead of Mrs of Ms?

Though the trend that weirds me most is kids referring to adults as Mr/Mrs/Ms with the first name, like for instance your character Miss Kara.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 18, 2015)

Vaatu said:


> Meh, I know plenty who say it in real life.
> They may have picked it up from tv shows. They may not have. Shortening the name is the quick and easy method for nicknaming.
> Whatever fits their relationship better. Why Miss instead of Mrs of Ms?
> 
> Though the trend that weirds me most is kids referring to adults as Mr/Mrs/Ms with the first name, like for instance your character Miss Kara.


It's Miss because she was never married and typically marriage is what denotes a Miss from Mrs. I think I never really considered Miss Kara. The mom is kind of young looking and I would think it would bother her being referred to in a way that makes her seem old.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (May 18, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I think you mentioned it. Most of the issue is I am kind of wary about putting stuff on sites like that in it's entirety and I'm not really done with enough of this thing to put it out for people to read in general.
> 
> There's a lot of stuff I have to work on. I still haven't exactly decided on a definite protagonist and antagonist or any of that. The plot is kind of convoluted and I really don't want it to be so and the characters kind of morphing. I just had *a background character jump to being a main and I'm trying to reconcile that*.



that's happened to me before, although i can't say any "fixes" were successful. once the characters start running in unplanned directions, i get frustrated and give up. it probably wouldn't be so bad if i planned things out more carefully- but it'll always be a balancing act.


----------



## Lord Yu (May 18, 2015)

I've had a character jump from one off joke character to primary love interest. Needless to say, a hlluva lot of changes came. I just never let anything frustrate me.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 19, 2015)

Has anyone else heard of this? 



Plot: 



> In True Stories, Lucian and a company of adventuring heroes sailing westward through the Pillars of Hercules (the Strait of Gibraltar) in order to explore lands and inhabitants beyond the Ocean, are blown off course by a strong wind, and after 79 days come to an island. This island is home to a river of wine filled with fish, and bears a marker indicating that Heracles and Dionysos have traveled to this point, along with normal footprints and giant footprints.
> 
> Shortly after leaving the island, they are lifted up by a whirlwind and after seven days deposited on the Moon. There they find themselves embroiled in a full-scale war between the king of the Moon and the king of the Sun over colonisation of the Morning Star, involving armies including such exotica as stalk-and-mushroom men, acorn-dogs ("dog-faced men fighting on winged acorns"), and cloud-centaurs. Unusually, the Sun, Moon, stars and planets are portrayed as locales, each with its unique geographic details and inhabitants. The war is finally won by the Sun's armies clouding the Moon over. Details of the Moon follow; there are no women, and children grow inside the calf of men.
> 
> ...


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 22, 2015)

So now I don't I don't have to read that book.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 23, 2015)

I still kind of want to.


----------



## Lord Yu (May 23, 2015)

Just rewrote two chapters. 2 down. Something like 20 to go.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (May 24, 2015)

CTK, what kind of stuff do you generally read...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 24, 2015)

ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> CTK, what kind of stuff do you generally read...



Umm, modern fantasy and YA type stuff. I read some light science fiction too. Then I'll read more contemporary stuff like Gone Girl from time to time. More than anything I want great characters and a good plot. The type of book doesn't matter quite as much.


----------



## Buskuv (May 24, 2015)

>not exclusively reading harlequin romance pulp


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 25, 2015)

I want to try and read Ghost by John Rhingo. 

It's one of the worst things ever written. It's about a plot by Muslim terrorists to rape women on a live web stream and it's just written to try and make it seem like Bush was right for attacking Iraq.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 1, 2015)

^Why would you even want to read that?


Also, why is Lord Yu banned? I haven't been on this website for a while.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 1, 2015)

I'm not. It's a joke. 

Anyway, I am on a tear. I can feel the imagery, the dialogue, the character.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 2, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> ^Why would you even want to read that?
> 
> 
> Also, why is Lord Yu banned? I haven't been on this website for a while.



Even bad books can be a teaching tool and it's one of those things that's just kind of like watching  bad movie, there's some enjoyment to be had laughing at the thing. I know a podcast that talks about it that got me interested.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 2, 2015)

Oh I get it. Alright.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 2, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Even bad books can be a teaching tool and it's one of those things that's just kind of like watching  bad movie, there's some enjoyment to be had laughing at the thing. I know a podcast that talks about it that got me interested.



Link to podcast please.



Anyway, I think I finally got a proper franchise name. Chain of Amararischi.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 4, 2015)

hello?

is anybody here?


----------



## ~Avant~ (Jun 4, 2015)

Havent been on in a while how is everyone doing? How are your works coming along?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 4, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> Link to podcast please.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I think I finally got a proper franchise name. Chain of Amararischi.


here


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 7, 2015)

After a few months of not writing anything major, I wrote this short story. It's too long to post on here so you can look at it here:  It's called 809. It's only 1600 words long.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 9, 2015)

so, many years ago, i wrote a fanfiction. i found the site i wrote it on- and i have almost 600 reviews despite never finishing it.

for some reason, i find this extremely amusing. and i'm almost- ...._proud_? 

side-note: the writing's not bad. story line is pretty shitty. C- considering.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 9, 2015)

What was it called?


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 10, 2015)

Ah, a 7000 word chapter full of dialogue I'm actually proud of.  I found a nice endpoint but   there's more info I could give. Ah! I'm going to start a new chapter.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 11, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> What was it called?



nice try but i would die of embarrassment if i ever shared it.

to give you an idea of how cringe worthy it was- think "naruto fanfiction set in modern day times". 

the site has an interesting "stats" feature though, which i was browsing:


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jun 11, 2015)

Were they in high school?


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 11, 2015)

lol noooooo

what would give you that idea?!?!







....they were in university.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jun 11, 2015)

I found this okay if they had powers.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 12, 2015)

I've debated the university or high school thing over and over again. It seems that if you're going to go for max dramas high school is the way to go. When I've weighed the two options it seems like there's just something more to be had with people who are younger because of their reactions to the things going on around them.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 12, 2015)

i would imagine it being harder to write about high school, if you aren't writing for young adults


----------



## crazymtf (Jun 12, 2015)

~Avant~ said:


> Havent been on in a while how is everyone doing? How are your works coming along?



Finishing up my novel "Life Freaking Sucks" plus working with a artist on "Sparks" comic edition. Exciting


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jun 12, 2015)

High school is good for drama because you're forced to deal with everyone through streamlined requirements.  In college you can go elsewhere and select your crowds.  Unless you're in a dorm or frat house.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 13, 2015)

actually, i kinda disagree. i've found that a lot of settings are pretty much exactly like high school. when i graduated university and started working, i was 21 and expected the middle-aged adults i was working with to be mature- umm, let's just say I was completely off. 

I guess when people come together- no matter the age- they cluster into groups, and the misfits are still misfits- the ''Regina George'' types (this might be lost on you- in which case, "you can't sit with us") still reign supreme etc. Of course, it isn't as obvious as school was- but there's still a framework there.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 15, 2015)

crazymtf said:


> Finishing up my novel "Life Freaking Sucks" plus working with a artist on "Sparks" comic edition. Exciting



That's awesome man. Tell us when it's finished. 



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> High school is good for drama because you're forced to deal with everyone through streamlined requirements.  In college you can go elsewhere and select your crowds.  Unless you're in a dorm or frat house.



The thing is that I kind of want to start with them young too because one of the big things is supposed to be how ruthless and uncaring the main character is (for a sixteen year old girl). it might still work with someone who is a little older, but it would require a lot of changes to what I have planned. 



ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> actually, i kinda disagree. i've found that a lot of settings are pretty much exactly like high school. when i graduated university and started working, i was 21 and expected the middle-aged adults i was working with to be mature- umm, let's just say I was completely off.



Only problem is that you didn't expect it, right? A lot of people read things and despite their experience they don't expect the books to be that way. Sure, it might be realistic, but there are times when realistic is less realistic to the reader. There was a piece on a podcast about how an author used some phrase that is used very modernly in his Fantasy work and people were thrown off by it. Turns out the phrase is very, very old and existed before most of Europe had tried to sail here. 

Problem was that to the reader it seemed wrong and threw them out of the work. And it was kind of an overwhelming response. 

My main character might be a little much for a sixteen year old, but she's also Lucifer's daughter. That probably will allow her some special treatment in the audiences eyes, but at the same time I'd like to not write a bunch of adults acting like children, despite the fact that I know that's what often happens.



ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> I guess when people come together- no matter the age- they cluster into groups, and the misfits are still misfits- the ''Regina George'' types (this might be lost on you- in which case, "you can't sit with us") still reign supreme etc. Of course, it isn't as obvious as school was- but there's still a framework there.



I'm not sorry to say I actually make a Regina George reference in what I'm writing. I actually just looked it up when you mentioned this to see what it was exactly. A character said this quote about the main character and her friend: 



> ?I thought I read the list wrong when I saw that I was teamed up with Regina George and her lackey.?


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 15, 2015)

Lucifers daughter? Holy shit what kind of young adult novels are you writing?!?

I was surprised by how many parents were upset with the HP books having magic/sorcery in it- think it may have been banned in some places. Do you worry about that at all? 

Good point on the expectation vs. reality; maybe you could write it in that way though. Character is new, thinks things will be one way and is surprised to find out how wrong they are. As the author you could write in your experiences- readers would still be able to relate.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 15, 2015)

I've never been concerned about backlash. Otherwise I would have never written an explicit sex scene involving a fifteen year old protagonist.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 15, 2015)

ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> Lucifers daughter? Holy shit what kind of young adult novels are you writing?!?
> 
> I was surprised by how many parents were upset with the HP books having magic/sorcery in it- think it may have been banned in some places. Do you worry about that at all?
> 
> Good point on the expectation vs. reality; maybe you could write it in that way though. Character is new, thinks things will be one way and is surprised to find out how wrong they are. As the author you could write in your experiences- readers would still be able to relate.



I don't know what makes Lucifer's daughter such a big deal in terms of people being upset about it, but the truth be told I welcome backlash. 

No one would even know the name Dan Brown if it weren't for the backlash from a pretty terrible book that had nothing going for it but controversy. If the problem gets loud enough I'm more likely to get more attention and people are more likely to do whatever they can to find copies of my book and read it. 

Really there's probably a lot to be angry about in he book (a young girl having casual sex, carrying knives, a father basically torturing his daughter to make her stronger, etc) but it's not there to be edgy or extreme and is all pretty well woven into the story. They're the kind of things that I think (besides the violence) society kind of needs to get over or at least learn to deal with. 

But yeah, my main characters are the Lucifer's daughter, a succubus and the Angel of Death. The whole thing is surprisingly light hearted though.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 16, 2015)

GAIZ MY NOVEL IS FUCKING OFFAL HALP.

Seriously though, what do you guys do when you realise aren't giving the readers the right information to hook them in and actually make the novel engaging? Plow on and rely on beta-readers? Rewrite it all so that certain conflicts are emphasised properly? Tweak and try to find a middle ground?


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 16, 2015)

Add a white protagonist in their late teens and a socially and racially in-congruent love interest.

And the protagonist has to have Harry Potter syndrome.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 16, 2015)

Harry Potter syndrome? You mean monomythery?


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 16, 2015)

Kind of.

More that the entire world revolves around them.  Kids get really sold on the idea that their mundane lives are a cover for a far more colorful and fantastic world where they are one of the important, pivotal pieces of the story.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 16, 2015)

Prophecy. People love the idea that just the event of their birth has somehow justified the earth almost literally revolving around them.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 16, 2015)

Tyrael said:


> Prophecy. People love the idea that just the event of their birth has somehow justified the earth almost literally revolving around them.



I want to start ranting about what folks are taught in kindergarten about being "special" and "different" and "going for the dreams" and how that doesn't translate into reality for everyone- and how unprepared borderline egomaniacs are for the disaster of their own mediocrity but instead, I'll just post this


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 16, 2015)

That's why young adult fiction is so popular.

It's the shonen manga for the Western snowflake generation.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 16, 2015)

> *I don't know what makes Lucifer's daughter such a big deal in terms of people being upset about it*, but the truth be told I welcome backlash



one word: religion. 

especially if there are scenes where people have to "relate" with- or feel "sorry for" Lucifer's daughter. But like you said- backlash isn't exactly a bad thing.

Unless you are salman rushdie, and can't live a free life anymore. 

anyway, judge me if you like- i thought those dan brown books weren't half bad. I also read them when I was fresh out of high school (if i'm not mistaken) so not sure how much of a difference that made. 

I don't really understand book-bashing, tbh. 

If it's getting more people interested in reading vs. obsessing over social media- then why not? not everyone is a literary savant. simple ideas/engaging dialogue and an unassuming lead character makes for easy reading.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 16, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> That's why young adult fiction is so popular.
> 
> It's the shonen manga for the Western snowflake generation.





good point, ishmael.


----------



## crazymtf (Jun 16, 2015)

Anyone ever work on a comic? I just started with an artist and it's a very interesting experience. You'd think it be less work, since less writing, but having to share your vision, it's just as much work if not more. Crazy. It is very exciting though to see your work come to life.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 16, 2015)

Tyrael said:


> GAIZ MY NOVEL IS FUCKING OFFAL HALP.
> 
> Seriously though, what do you guys do when you realise aren't giving the readers the right information to hook them in and actually make the novel engaging? Plow on and rely on beta-readers? Rewrite it all so that certain conflicts are emphasised properly? Tweak and try to find a middle ground?



I can try to take a look at it, but you know the new book came out today. 



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Add a white protagonist in their late teens and a socially and racially in-congruent love interest.
> 
> And the protagonist has to have Harry Potter syndrome.



I think that a lot of that is over in books. I mean that started back in the nineties, Harry Potter as a series. There's been a lot of experimental stuff in YA recently and people have been more bold. 



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Kind of.
> 
> More that the entire world revolves around them.  Kids get really sold on the idea that their mundane lives are a cover for a far more colorful and fantastic world where they are one of the important, pivotal pieces of the story.



I kind of think kids do that without reading anything. 




ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> one word: religion.
> 
> especially if there are scenes where people have to "relate" with- or feel "sorry for" Lucifer's daughter. But like you said- backlash isn't exactly a bad thing.
> 
> ...



I wrote his daughter as a pretty terrible person, to be honest. But she's righteous in her own way. The thing is I don't really try to dwell on the idea of feeling bad for her. There are sad parts of things around her, but the Lucifer stuff is really toned down. She gets prideful at times, like really prideful, but I've seen other books with similar kinds of plots and it's not seemed to cause those books too many issues. 

I'm not trying to avoid controversy, but I'm not trying start any either. I tried to portray some of the things that I don't see often in books--people who are in high school who aren't tied into "the most important relationship of their lives" and who even have sex with someone they won't be with long term, girls who aren't the typical rail thin protagonist that's out matched in strength by everyone they come across, a lack of a central love story, some strong ties to the Book of Enoch and Revelation portions of Biblical myth, and my protagonists are "special" but only as special as every other half angel and half demon running around the planet. 

People bash Dan Brown because he basically wrote the same book twice. He writes in a pretty simplistic way, the books don't make sense in a logical way and he only seemed to  get popular by resurrecting this old church heresy. The thing is that people treated his book like a history text and he had is little worshipers. I remember being in college at the time and people acting like it was so intellectual and true. Then these idiots went to the places talked about in the book and realized they were accurately described and they freaked out.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 16, 2015)

what's your opinion on lord of the rings/the hobbit?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 16, 2015)

ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> what's your opinion on lord of the rings/the hobbit?



The books? Never read Hobbit, found Lord of the Rings boring.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 16, 2015)

crazymtf said:


> Anyone ever work on a comic? I just started with an artist and it's a very interesting experience. You'd think it be less work, since less writing, but having to share your vision, it's just as much work if not more. Crazy. It is very exciting though to see your work come to life.



I've worked on my own comics before digitally, just small comedic ones, and it is a lot of work. Especially doing it by yourself. It took me like 2-3 hours to sketch, ink, and color one page minus breaks. 



ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> what's your opinion on lord of the rings/the hobbit?



Never read any of the books but I found them to be quite boring movies.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jun 17, 2015)

Tyrael said:


> GAIZ MY NOVEL IS FUCKING OFFAL HALP.
> 
> Seriously though, what do you guys do when you realise aren't giving the readers the right information to hook them in and actually make the novel engaging? Plow on and rely on beta-readers? Rewrite it all so that certain conflicts are emphasised properly? Tweak and try to find a middle ground?



I could take a look at it if you'd like.

Generally I like to think the point of the opening is to make the audience ask questions.  You reveal enough information and answer enough questions that they can begin to form expectations and see direction, and then you play on those expectations, and help them achieve realizations.  Once you get to that point, they're hooked, and you can do more.

A simple way to start is to use the mini-episode format, where you have short term goal/conflict/resolution every few pages to establish characters and setting and keep people satisfied while the longer term conflicts are being established.  If you're good, and I think you are, you make the smallers conflicts peppered through the first chapters either spin off from the larger plot so the audience can look back and have a realization later about the foreshadowing, or make them thematically related.  Either will help people to realize and appreciate the information you give them later on.  

A good test is to read your story and pretend you know absolutely nothing, and question everything.  This is what beta readers do, and what I'd do if I read your story.  Often it's hard to do this as the author, because as the author, each time you have a question, or doubt something, you can easily fill in the missing info your head, "Ah yeah, this is like this because of that."  But does the audience know that?  If they don't, and it's hard to piece together or hold interest without author insight, then it's time to sprinkle in some more clues or information or turn an event to highlight it PDQ.  But for everything you give early on, it should raise several more questions, or establish something which you can use to raise more questions.  Then those questions have to have meaning and be addressed or dismissed or something.  

One of the other problems stories have, is that early chapters are written when the characters and story ideas are still forming and developing, and they can lack direction.  Which is just a natural part of writing before it takes a life of it's own.  So it's inherently messier and less focused than the later parts.  In that case, yeah, you sort of might need to just re-read and rewrite to make the intro more concise and relevant to what comes later, and maybe incorporate stuff from later so it's more solid.  Then comes going through the rest of the novel and making sure it's internally consistent with the rest of the reworked beginning, which can involve more rewriting.  Or do what Boskov said.  That's easier.

A lot of this is probably stuff you know, and I'm not sure what's relevant to you, but that's what came to my mind when I read your paragraph.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 18, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I can try to take a look at it, but you know the new book came out today.





The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I could take a look at it if you'd like.



Cheers for the offers, but I'm 30k words deep already, and I prefer to have edited something that long before people read it so you're not picking up stuff that I could easily fix. 'tis appreciated though.



> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, that does all pretty much apply to my problem atm - the thing is, when it comes to putting distance between myself and a text, I tend to find I have to put aside the manuscript for a while and come back with fresh eyes. I know King reccs' a year before you look at it again.

Guess that's the problem with something during the immediacy of writing - I'm finding all of these faults and I don't really know if they are faults or not as bad as I realise.

Probably best I just keep going and get it finished before I do any editing though.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Jun 18, 2015)

Having trouble choosing what name to go with for one of my characters. He's on the protagonists side. He's the husband to a Paladin within the Order of Enoch, a faction within the Vatican that hunts down demigods, vampires, werewolves, witches, demons etc.

One day he went missing and subject to torturous experiments by the demon Samael. He was turned into a half demon/half asura hybrid. His wife came and rescued him, and together they beat back the demons, but now she has been excommunicated by the church as a heretic, and they go on the run, eventually joining my main character and his group.

So I'm split between two names for him: Derek Solace or Kanaan Solace?


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 18, 2015)

I honestly think both of them are boring.  Out of the two Kanaan probably works best for what you're going for.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 18, 2015)

I agree with Yu, Kanaan sounds better.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 18, 2015)

I tend to give my fantasy characters terribly inappropriate names - I'm terrible at naming - so I'd probably go with Nigel or something.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 18, 2015)

Yeah, names are really weird to come up with sometimes. I create the characters before coming up with a name. Sometimes I continue to change it before I really settle with one.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 18, 2015)

I'm exactly the same. I often just plain forget a character's name and change it accidentally.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jun 18, 2015)

Naming is the hardest part of writing.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 18, 2015)

So in conclusion we all think Nigel Solace is the optimum name?


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jun 18, 2015)

I agree with that.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 18, 2015)

It sounds great


----------



## ~Avant~ (Jun 18, 2015)

Lmfao you guys are too much


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 18, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Naming is the hardest part of writing.



really?

i would have said writing was the hardest part of writing


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 18, 2015)

Trying not to throw away, erase or otherwise destroy your clearly inadequate work in a fit of vodka fueled depressed violence before passing out drunk in your back yard, face down, wearing nothing but your socks is probably the hardest part of writing.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jun 18, 2015)

That's easy if you take off your socks.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 19, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Naming is the hardest part of writing.



There are several sites for chasing down name meanings and origins. Those are good resources for thinking of people naming conventions. As for works, chapters, cities, towns, companies, that is a challenge. 


I'm pretty great at names. I used to be fairly mediocre.  But now I have whole systems for naming my fantasy characters that don't involve  misspelling English names or adding apostrophes. 

I started with phonics then I worked on patterns.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 19, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Trying not to throw away, erase or otherwise destroy your clearly inadequate work in a fit of vodka fueled depressed violence before passing out drunk in your back yard, face down, wearing nothing but your socks is probably the hardest part of writing.



Or you could just come into the 21st century and cut out the things you don't think work or don't like and place them in another document for safe keeping in case you need to refer to them again at some later date.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 19, 2015)

I treat every location and group I come up with in previous drafts as canon until something comes along that directly contradicts them.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 19, 2015)

I don't like vodka, so I guess that makes me a writer with no major difficulties.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jun 19, 2015)

It does make you a terrible Russian Novelist.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 20, 2015)

someone should make a thread here for people to post the first paragraph of the novel they are working on. I think it would be interesting- for me- because I enjoy light stalking but don't have the resolve required to read more than a paragraph per member 

also, some quality troll posts could be made. which would be amusing to all !


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 20, 2015)

I doubt that thread'll last long. Remember there was a thread where we would post ? That didn't last long. Like, 2-3 months.

I ain't saying you shouldn't do it though.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 20, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> I doubt that thread'll last long. Remember there was a thread where we would post ? That didn't last long. Like, 2-3 months.
> 
> I ain't saying you shouldn't do it though.



on a scale of one to ten, how hard are you hating on me right now?

i bet as soon as i turn my back you will make my thread. but guess what? i posted about it here first. everyone will know you for a scheming thread stealer, and i'll laugh about it while sipping a mojito- why a mojito? don't ask me unnecessary questions


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 20, 2015)

Umm... on a scale of 1-10, probably a 1. I don't even know you that well. 

And I'm not like that, unless I just really don't like you. Then fuck you.


*Edit:* Question: The Four Sovereigns in my book are considered immortal by everyone else in the story. I don't know if this is considered as immortality or not, but if the Earth dies, they die, so would that make them essentially mortal? They can also "choose to die". When they do that, they become one with one of the four elements.

*Edit:* I forgot to mention that they're able to kill each other. Like, dead-kill.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 20, 2015)

They're still immortal.  If they live essentially eternally outside those conditions.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 21, 2015)

Having trouble fulfilling your writing dreams? Just watch this: 

[YOUTUBE]DvVUBZy_MHE[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 21, 2015)

First ten seconds- I'm thinking: what the fuck 
and then 47 seconds in, shit gets real 

edit: this is weird. when does it stop being weird.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 22, 2015)

ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> First ten seconds- I'm thinking: what the fuck
> and then 47 seconds in, shit gets real
> 
> edit: this is weird. when does it stop being weird.



There are parodies of it everywhere: 

[YOUTUBE]k_e67Wwumz8[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Furious George (Jun 24, 2015)

Tyrael said:


> I don't like vodka



 !!!!!!!


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 25, 2015)

I know, I'm a terrible human being.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 25, 2015)

So  would make a good lead in to a novel or something: 



> A family has been forced to flee their new $1.3 million home in Westfield, New Jersey, after repeatedly receiving threatening packages from a person who calls themselves “the Watcher,” according to a lawsuit filed against the previous owners of the home.
> 
> CBS New York reports that the packages are from someone who claims the six-bedroom home “has been the subject of my family for decades.



Okay, that's creepy, but nothing too crazy. Where is this going? 



> “I have been put in charge of watching and waiting for its second coming,” one of the letters reportedly reads. Two others allegedly refer to the couple’s young children. “I am pleased to know your names now, and the name of the young blood you have brought to me,” one reportedly says. Another asks, “Have they found out what’s in the walls yet?”



Jackpot.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 25, 2015)

That sounds like something I'd read, but irl, that's creepy as fuck. I'd move out immediately. 

The police need to raid the walls and find out what's in there. I'm thinking dead children.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 26, 2015)

Or fucking demons. 


My world building is going nuts again. Fortunately, it's not derailing my writing.


----------



## ~M~ (Jun 26, 2015)

Would writing a short story or a novella be a good stepping stone to start a novel? 
I've only used my english skills in school and a couple journals of poetry, but I really want to write prose since I think it would be best. 

Thousands of words is just so daunting, especially with editing


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 26, 2015)

Go for it - it's a good way to get into the flow of things. When you can apply the techniques over a shorter piece of writing it helps you figure out how to do it over a longer piece.


----------



## ~M~ (Jun 26, 2015)

Anyone wanna tell me how they first start out their writing? Like do you outline a plot and make some character profiles or do you sort of write out a story as it happens to you stream of conscious, and edit later? 

Also, has anyone wrote anything biographic, or memoirs? I've had a life I think people would read about


----------



## Risyth (Jun 26, 2015)

Em Senpai said:


> Would writing a short story or a novella be a good stepping stone to start a novel?
> I've only used my english skills in school and a couple journals of poetry, but I really want to write prose since I think it would be best.
> 
> Thousands of words is just so daunting, especially with editing



*Do you really want to write like this? I mean really?

If so, you'd probably be writing already instead of asking here. No offense, but that's how I was, at least.  You can't just have a curiosity; you need to have an almost irritating desire to get something put out, whether as a tension-reliever or because you want others to see your perspective or tale. You'd also probably have a story planned out in your head. To some degree, anyway.

There's no best right way to write, though. And if anyone here tells you otherwise, they're being subjective. The only thing you really need to do is revise what you've written. Just start out naturally and eventually you'll make the adjustments to how you plan and execute on your own.*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 26, 2015)

Em Senpai said:


> Anyone wanna tell me how they first start out their writing? Like do you outline a plot and make some character profiles or do you sort of write out a story as it happens to you stream of conscious, and edit later?
> 
> Also, has anyone wrote anything biographic, or memoirs? I've had a life I think people would read about



Nothing special. I just write the first little bit that comes to mind. I don't usually outline, but I do keep notes on the idea because I'm prone to forgetting and despite the old saying about forgotten ideas not being worth it, I think they are. 

The thing I usually have the clearest picture of is a character. Before Lissette was Lissette she was a very strong idea in my head. Really, she was a very strong image of a person right down to the type of songs she would listen to and the car she would drive and the place she would live. I tend to write from a "character is everything" perspective, so that's what I focus on. Many things prove to me time and time again that to me character is everything.


----------



## ~M~ (Jun 26, 2015)

> Do you really want to write like this? I mean really?
> 
> If so, you'd probably be writing already instead of asking here. No offense, but that's how I was, at least. You can't just have a curiosity; you need to have an almost irritating desire to get something put out, whether as a tension-reliever or because you want others to see your perspective or tale. You'd also probably have a story planned out in your head. To some degree, anyway.


I'm aware there's no set formula. I'm just gauging what people are doing. 

I don't exactly need an artistic lecture though because I'm getting a fine arts degree and I like to think I have a reasonable grasp of things, which includes being open to new ideas and processes. I feel a little talked down to by your post and I don't know why, I'm not grated easily


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 26, 2015)

^He does that



Em Senpai said:


> Anyone wanna tell me how they first start out their writing? Like do you outline a plot and make some character profiles or do you sort of write out a story as it happens to you stream of conscious, and edit later?
> 
> Also, has anyone wrote anything biographic, or memoirs? I've had a life I think people would read about



I usually write my ideas in my phone (got like 4 pages worth of it in there), but for starting a story, and if I know how I want it to begin, I usually just start writing and do whatever comes to mind. But an outline is always good if you're not sure where to go. 

Plot usually takes a couple drafts for me to start and characters as well.


----------



## Risyth (Jun 26, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> ^He does that



*No, you're just soft.*


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 26, 2015)

How am I soft? You barely know me


----------



## Risyth (Jun 26, 2015)

Em Senpai said:


> I'm aware there's no set formula. I'm just gauging what people are doing.
> 
> I don't exactly need an artistic lecture though because I'm getting a fine arts degree and I like to think I have a reasonable grasp of things, which includes being open to new ideas and processes. I feel a little talked down to by your post and I don't know why, I'm not grated easily


*Why gauge when you can work it out yourself? You won't know what really works for you until you start writing.

No. I'm not trying to lecture you; but if you want to take it that way, fine. I used to try and make sure I wasn't potentially hurting anyone's feelings as I posted, but now I don't care. Because I still ended up seeing things like this. Honestly, I'm just talking to you the same way I'd talk to myself and any serious creative writing professor would speak to his/her students when asked that. I haven't even seen you write anything yet, so why would I be judging you?

If you want to write a story, write a story. But you have to want to write a story. You said writing thousands of words was daunting, so what have you planned, then? Do you have any ideas for what you want to have in your novella or short story? If not, then why do you want to go into fiction?

It might seem like I'm rambling, but look at it this way: a novella has a beginning, middle, and end. And so does a short story. The only difference between those and novels is novels are longer. You say you want to know if either can be used as a stepping stone, but if you don't have an idea of what you want to write and you've never started testing out what direction you want to go in, how's that going to be any easier?

The road'll be much smoother if you already have an idea of what your ballpark is. What your characters are like, the basic plot, and the setting. How long you think it'll be. Otherwise, a short story, novella, and novel will be equally difficult: you don't know what you're aiming for. Yes, you can outline that, but you don't always have to. You can think as you go along and outline later. Or you can just jot notes as you go along. What works best for you is all up to you.*


----------



## Risyth (Jun 26, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> How am I soft? You barely know me



*I don't have to know you if I'm just talking about how you took my post. ww*


----------



## ~M~ (Jun 26, 2015)

Only a true and absolute idiot disregards the world around him and 'just goes' without a second of thought. 

Even the most spontaneous of art has to have the original intention to be spontaneous 

Jesus Christ I did not read your entire post and I won't because you seem like quite the brick.

I obviously have characters, plot, settings, events in mind, I was wondering how people organized them. It's not like I asked them to do it for me


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 26, 2015)

That doesn't make me "soft" though.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 26, 2015)

People that aren't me are fighting with Risyth. Oh goody, I never get to watch one of these from the outside.


----------



## Risyth (Jun 26, 2015)

Em Senpai said:


> Only a true and absolute idiot disregards the world around him and 'just goes' without a second of thought.
> 
> Even the most spontaneous of art has to have the original intention to be spontaneous
> 
> ...



*So anyone who just decides to write without consulting someone else first is an idiot? And you can perfectly tell whether something's going to work for you by listening to another and not trying your own methods? Okay. But even if you really believe that, do you have to be so rude just because you don't agree over something so trivial?

How's it obvious? You never implied that, and it makes all the difference. I never said you asked anyone to do anything for you either; I said you're the best match for what you plan to write, so you can have the best start by testing out your own methods, then adding onto that once you've got a starting point.

If you didn't notice, Malicious Friday's suggestions are already pretty much everything you could generally do. It's not as if there's a huge list to go by. And that's well and good, but until you try out an organizational method for yourself, asking what we do is just having a forum discussion that doesn't produce anything for you.

Yes, you can apply that to influence what your methods will be, but why not just try for yourself first? *


----------



## Krory (Jun 26, 2015)

I see the level of arrogance still hasn't gone down in here. 

>CTK pretending people haven't been giving Risyth shit from the first moment he posted here


----------



## Risyth (Jun 26, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The thing that got me about his posts was how he never actually posted anything he wrote. You'll find comments about how you're writing, how you're doing this or that wrong or your prose isn't good, but you'll never actually see something he penned himself.


*Nope, I have. You just don't remember because I never stated it was my writing.

And what? I never said anyone's writing was "bad" in the first place. 

Again, you don't even know what anyone's talking about, so why do you even bother? We're talking about organizing and getting started. Not "you can't write; you need to do this to write better."

By the way, for the 10th time, why do I need to show my work to know whether someone's a good author or not? Let alone have an opinion about their writing?*


----------



## Risyth (Jun 26, 2015)

*


Malicious Friday said:



			That doesn't make me "soft" though.
		
Click to expand...


I gave advice without being insulting or condescending at all, and Em complained; then you took up for Em. So you're also complaining about rather mild advice by extension. So, you're soft.

I'd hate to see how you guys would react to someone in your face telling you your writing sucks and flipping page by page after skimming, "trash...trash...trash..."

...yes, like me. You'd all probably have a serious mental breakdown.*


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 26, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *Nope, I have. You just don't remember because I never stated it was my writing.
> 
> And what? I never said anyone's writing was "bad" in the first place.
> 
> ...





Risyth said:


> *
> 
> I gave advice without being insulting or condescending at all, and Em complained; then you took up for Em. So you're also complaining about rather mild advice by extension. So, you're soft.
> *



If you posted something, then can you direct us to the post with a link?

And everything creative needs someone else's point of view to grow. If you don't like another person's criticisms, then maybe it's _you_ who is soft, not I or anyone else. And like CTK said, I've never seen you post anything, your own work or not.



Risyth said:


> I'd hate to see how you guys would react to someone in your face telling you your writing sucks and flipping page by page after skimming, "trash...trash...trash..."
> 
> ...yes, like me. You'd all probably have a serious mental breakdown.



Assuming how we'd react without ever meeting us in person is silly. You know nothing about us outside this forum, I assume, and if you talk to others in PM, what makes you think you know how people tick, what would set them off or make them cry? As far you know, I could take criticism pretty well.


----------



## ~M~ (Jun 26, 2015)

If he's getting shit 
Well 
All I can say is 
Bitches get stitches


----------



## Risyth (Jun 26, 2015)

Em Senpai said:


> If he's getting shit
> Well
> All I can say is
> Bitches get stitches


*Oh! You're just a troll!

Sorry, I've got this bad habit of taking people seriously. I'll stop. lol *



Malicious Friday said:


> If you posted something, then can you direct us to the post with a link?



*Why? Why should I search back because you want me to? It doesn't even have anything to do with the topic at hand. Now we're subjectively talking about how good we are as authors? You guys love to change the subject. It's just sad. If I never wrote a single word, that wouldn't invalidate anything I've said. That'd be like a sports star complaining that his coach who isn't playing for a league is trying to coach him. Really, dude?*



> And everything creative needs someone else's point of view to grow. If you don't like another person's criticisms, then maybe it's _you_ who is soft, not I or anyone else. And like CTK said, I've never seen you post anything, your own work or not.


*Criticisms? My methods weren't even contradicted by anyone today but Em and you just now. Em's criticism was terrible and devolved into personal attacks. And I didn't reply with "Jesus Christ" and "you're a brick" and "bitches get stitches" and "he does that," etc. Come on, that's childish stuff. I can take dumb insults like those and valid criticism without resorting to immaturity--but, you know, I still have the right to disagree with you and express my own opinion. That doesn't mean I'm "soft". I'd be soft if I complained about simply being told what I didn't want to hear, like Em did. 

But what do you mean by "everything creative needs someone else's point of view"? Em didn't even write anything yet. Not by what that first post implied. What's wrong, per se, with telling them try and start writing before asking around so they can find their comfort zone first and have a better idea of what to ask? 

I might be biased because I just WROTE when I first started--from 11:00 at night til 8:00 next morning--but that doesn't mean what I did was wrong and I can't tell someone else to give that a try. Once I'd finished my first chapter, I had more to organize by...because I had stuff written. And I knew exactly where I wanted to go next. I could better estimate how long my chapters would be, let alone how long my entire story would be. Most of all, I could go to a forum and be able to really give the details about any direction I'd want to go in from then on, since I'd already started writing, organizing, and editing. So many people nowadays just want to talk about what it's like to write instead of actually writing.

At any rate, we were talking about organization anyway, weren't we? So what does that have to do with creativity? Whatever it does, you just said the basic ways she could organize. You weren't "creative" about it: the tools you could use, when to organize after or while writing; how long to organize for versus writing, etc. And why? Because that stuff is largely a result of one's experience and personal preference. You can't simply relay those methods to someone and be completely certain they'll love them once they've begun applying them.*



> Assuming how we'd react without ever meeting us in person is silly. You know nothing about us outside this forum, I assume, and if you talk to others in PM, what makes you think you know how people tick, what would set them off or make them cry? As far you know, I could take criticism pretty well.


*Well, that's why I said "probably". And Mr. "doesn't get grated easily" or whatever he said clearly already lost his composure. You started off with the same thing, so it's not as if I'm just making stuff up.

The only thing "silly" is replying, "he does that" to someone talking about how I hurt their feelings when I wasn't even trying to, implying I've done the same to you and your friends or you think I'm trying to. Yet I'm supposed to believe that you'd just be ice when getting cut down by someone who's actively trying to hurt your feelings in person and in public? Please. You want an assumption? Well, here's an assurance: I already know from that post that you've never faced such criticism in real life, and probably online either.*


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 26, 2015)

Yeah, ignore Risyth Em, he's got diarrhea of the keyboard and delusions of solipsism.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jun 27, 2015)

EM, your questions are good, and your methods are fine.


----------



## ~M~ (Jun 27, 2015)

No I'm legit ignoring this gray text poster. All I asked was how people start off. Clearly I have characters, world structure, events in mind I just wonder what people do with those. And he's acting like I want to write something on a whim with no rhyme reason or ideas and then just jot them down.... I don't value that advice and I'm sorry


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 27, 2015)

Ugh, he reminds me of Rica_Patin


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 27, 2015)

who would be up to read the first chapter of an uncompleted novel of mine and tell me if it's:

a) to be burned in a fire and never seen again
or
b) to be continued and potentially make $$$


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 27, 2015)

Em Senpai said:


> No I'm legit ignoring this gray text poster. All I asked was how people start off. Clearly I have characters, world structure, events in mind I just wonder what people do with those. And he's acting like I want to write something on a whim with no rhyme reason or ideas and then just jot them down.... I don't value that advice and I'm sorry



Write sentences and then write more sentences. That's how I work. Don't overthink things and just start.  You'll get an idea of how things are going to work once you start. It doesn't matter if your first draft is good. All you need is an idea of how things might flow.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 27, 2015)

I prefer the writing sentences after other sentences method.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jun 27, 2015)

I prefer not writing sentences.  



ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> who would be up to read the first chapter of an uncompleted novel of mine and tell me if it's:
> 
> a) to be burned in a fire and never seen again
> or
> b) to be continued and potentially make $$$



I'm up for a read.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 27, 2015)

Ignoring Risyth is generally good advice I'd say.

One thing that makes writing easier, I find, is knowing how you are going end the story. If you've got a destination in hand it gives the story and also the process of writing a sense of purpose throughout.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jun 27, 2015)

ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> who would be up to read the first chapter of an uncompleted novel of mine and tell me if it's:
> 
> a) to be burned in a fire and never seen again
> or
> b) to be continued and potentially make $$$



I'm up for it.


----------



## Krory (Jun 27, 2015)

ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> who would be up to read the first chapter of an uncompleted novel of mine and tell me if it's:
> 
> a) to be burned in a fire and never seen again
> or
> b) to be continued and potentially make $$$



sex hit me up.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 27, 2015)

LMAO- krory are you serious

i was so sure you hated me

anyway, i'll pm you guys soon- need to work past my anxiety with sharing :<


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Jun 28, 2015)

Send me it, too. I always like a good read.


----------



## ~M~ (Jun 28, 2015)

ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> LMAO- krory are you serious
> 
> i was so sure you hated me
> 
> anyway, i'll pm you guys soon- need to work past my anxiety with sharing :<



There is npthing to hide on 

NUDIST BEACHU 

We are here to support you


----------



## Krory (Jun 28, 2015)

ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> LMAO- krory are you serious
> 
> i was so sure you hated me
> 
> anyway, i'll pm you guys soon- need to work past my anxiety with sharing :<



I don't remember being excessively rude to you, but I still fuck with people I like or find entertaining.

I blame Svet and her "banter" personality. 

Besides, aside from Lord Yu, you're probably the only one I would read here... which probably isn't a good thing to say since I never read what Yu sent me and I don't have it anymore and that still keeps me up at night sometimes.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 29, 2015)

Good point guys. I still haven't sent anything.

I'll do it today. And I'm super sensitive so let's come up with a code word for "this sucks balls" 

Will ichabod krane work?

@krory: did you just say you find me entertaining? Who are you and what did you do with krory?


----------



## Krory (Jun 29, 2015)

Sometimes it feels like most people only know me through whatever they hear in the Sabo FC.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 29, 2015)

i haven't heard anything through the sabo FC so we're good 

also- i think I PM'd you all. sent something totally different from what i was originally going to send.

the reason?

because i care too much about the other piece. i am not ready for anyone to read it and KNOW i wrote it. even online; if i ever publish it one day- it'll be under an alias T_T


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 30, 2015)

So I started a thing. It's kind of a modern period piece set against the backdrop of the September 11th attacks, but it's also alternate history. 

There was a hurricane slated to hit New York the morning of the attacks and in my story it actually hits later that night. The characters live in the DC area and are effected by it, but it takes place in my larger universe where angels and demons are real. I don't know what I'm doing with this yet, just that I want to do something.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 30, 2015)

Might be something to that. I've been thinking of using my fantasy world to tell a story of high finance trickery.


----------



## Risyth (Jun 30, 2015)

Tyrael said:


> Ignoring Risyth is generally good advice I'd say.
> 
> One thing that makes writing easier, I find, is knowing how you are going end the story. If you've got a destination in hand it gives the story and also the process of writing a sense of purpose throughout.





Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I prefer the writing sentences after other sentences method.





Lord Yu said:


> Write sentences and then write more sentences. That's how I work. Don't overthink things and just start.  You'll get an idea of how things are going to work once you start. It doesn't matter if your first draft is good. All you need is an idea of how things might flow.



*Ha. I had something for all you groupies, but since your "advice" was literally the exact same stuff I already said at first, I guess it's not worth it. 

So thanks for agreeing with me even though you were--and still are--too dim to realize it. Lol you even said it more rudely, shallowly, and blatantly than I did. 

"Um...write sentences". "Um..know the ending". 



I swear something's got those brains of yours on cruise control 24/7. You can't think to save your lives.
*



Lord Yu said:


> Yeah, ignore Risyth Em, he's got diarrhea of the keyboard and delusions of solipsism.



*Well...

...I know why you guys are "aspiring" now. 

No real author with anything important to say would sound this immature...but then again, you're not real. Or important. 

Besides, Lord Yu, you do remember I've read a chapter of yours, right?

Yep, it sucked. But don't worry, after reading that I knew you weren't the type to formulate a good argument. 

By the way, you're disgusting and I'm religious so I'm not a solipsist. That's a pretty generic insult used by people on the Wikipedia kings who barely know what the word means. But even if I'm a solipsist, if my solipsism is "delusions," that would mean I'm not a solipsist.

Duh. ww  

Honestly, I should feel bad for you. I know you can only express your lame opinions as a pseudo-intellectual, but it's just so fun embarrassing you. Even if you don't want to admit it, you're feeling pretty embarrassed while you read this. *




Malicious Friday said:


> Ugh, he reminds me of Rica_Patin



*MF, you're just sad because you couldn't address a single thing I said when I replied to you. For a second, I thought you were respectable since you were the only one to actually use some rhetoric. 

But now you're back to being a complete clown. I can tell you're a terrible writer just from that post...and from what I've read. And you know it too.*


*Nope, you all started the argument with your crying, so keep it going. This is amazing. 

Oh, and this is a nearly pretty slow thread in an unpopular section of one forum among thousands. What you think isn't really important in the grand scheme of things. Not to mention a lot of people here don't like you guys or your amateurish writing either. 


Now...*


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 30, 2015)

All of you need to keep your menstruating in VMs or PMs.


----------



## Risyth (Jun 30, 2015)

*I can...make a clean version? *


----------



## ~M~ (Jun 30, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> All of you need to keep your menstruating in VMs or PMs.



Why haven't you section banned Risyth for baiting? Even at least temporarily


----------



## Risyth (Jun 30, 2015)

*Um, weren't you ignoring me? And it's going to be hard to prove that I was "baiting". You're just being overly sensitive.*


----------



## ~M~ (Jun 30, 2015)

I was speaking generally I haven't read any of this page you've just been mentioned across the forum as the bane of the literature section


----------



## Risyth (Jun 30, 2015)

*^That post was trolling, just so you know. And yep, by the two or three people who post there. 

You might've hurt my feelings if I haven't already read these guys to know how bad they are. And, um, saying you aren't angered easily and then throwing a tantrum literally one post later doesn't help. 

I like that though. "The bane of the literature section". It has that kind of presence to it.*


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 30, 2015)

Because I feel like you're all adults and should be able to show self restraint.

I suppose if I'm proven wrong I can do some thing humdrum and bureaucratic about it, but I'd like to avoid that, obviously.


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 30, 2015)

Engendering and / or exacerbating the problem will be met with the same punishment.


----------



## ~M~ (Jun 30, 2015)

I dunno if you're trying to direct that at me it's just something I've never heard of


----------



## Risyth (Jun 30, 2015)

*Hey we're all having fun here! ww

[SP]But I'll stop... [/SP]*


----------



## Krory (Jun 30, 2015)

Risyth should've been gotten rid of long ago since it was just post after post of, "Wow, you guys REALLY  suck" (just as he just said in his last post) and then not backing up his own claims of fabulouso.

Then again, all people who actively post in color should be banned, too.

Anyways - Flower, I read most of what you sent, I'll probably get back to you about it tomorrow with an actual legit reply.


----------



## Risyth (Jun 30, 2015)

*So should I?

Because, you know...CTK brought up who was good at writing or not. I'm just staying on topic. But if you want me gone for flaming, you'd be gone for trolling.


Oh...and I never claimed to be a good writer. This is like the 50th time, but I don't have to be a good writer to know bad writing. Do I have to go for 100 before you get it, Krory?*


----------



## Kitsune (Jun 30, 2015)

Guys stop it before I call Boskov in here. You know what he's like when he's mad. 













Very polite and articulate, as usual.


----------



## Krory (Jun 30, 2015)

Kits, write something for us.


----------



## Kitsune (Jun 30, 2015)

Kitsune sat on the toilet with her laptop. It was good.

Pulitzer Prize when?


----------



## Krory (Jun 30, 2015)

That is some fetish material right there.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 30, 2015)

I wish my thread could stay nice and friendly.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 30, 2015)

drama? in the lit department?







Kitsune said:


> Guys stop it before I call Boskov in here. You know what he's like when he's mad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




:rofl :rofl



> Anyways - Flower, I read most of what you sent, I'll probably get back to you about it tomorrow with an actual legit reply.



sure no rush- i just want to throw myself in a ditch for sharing in the first place. i don't know why i bother if i never show people my work


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jun 30, 2015)

now that i think about it- it would take a special kind of talent to get banned for starting something here.

i could almost respect that level of commitment to tomfoolery


----------



## ~M~ (Jun 30, 2015)

Kitsune said:


> Kitsune sat on the toilet with her laptop. It was good.
> 
> Pulitzer Prize when?



I, personally, was overwhelmed by the authors candid, shocking, and frankly divinely inspired interception, an exploration, of something I had never once fathomed possible: that a female uses the toilet broke my world view and reconstructed it into something new and more beautiful than the most extreme flush of heat followed by the blister of Himalayan blizzards. The symbolism of the laptop, the crushing patriarchy and technological society, was a physical sensation that so heavily weighted upon me my nose bled. 

I will  be committing suicide tonight, as I have read all there is to be read. There is no prize for this, my friend. God has given you all there is to be had.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 1, 2015)

I see that a tantrum was had. 

The funny thing is that I actually did give Em advice on some of my methods. The reply that got quoted was me joking around about what Lord Yu said. 

It's fair to state the obvious in this whole thing: when getting advice someone is fair to see how they actually write.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 1, 2015)

Kitsune said:


> Guys stop it before I call Boskov in here. You know what he's like when he's mad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As expected of a Literature mod.


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Jul 1, 2015)

Boskov is a nerd.

On another note, reading this thread just reminded me of why I suddenly received a short story from Flowers by private message. If you're reading this, I'll get around to reading/reviewing it as soon as possible. I've been busy preparing for my trip to China since yesterday, so I've not had much time.


----------



## ~M~ (Jul 1, 2015)

Writing a novel is still more complicated than writing sentence after sentence. Unless you're Faulkner and even he was brilliant. 

It's obvious you gotta tatatatatata on that keyboard, write down things as they come, but as I think about GRRM and his building of tension, cliffhangers, character development, etc... These are all things you develop after, no? So I suppose a better question is, when you're done, what things do you make sure you've included/how to make them shine, really speak to the reader rather than describe a story?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 1, 2015)

Martin just kills characters off before their storyline do anything interesting like he wrote himself into a corner.


----------



## ~M~ (Jul 1, 2015)

I'm certain Jon Snow is still alive


----------



## Lord Yu (Jul 1, 2015)

Em Senpai said:


> Writing a novel is still more complicated than writing sentence after sentence. Unless you're Faulkner and even he was brilliant.
> 
> It's obvious you gotta tatatatatata on that keyboard, write down things as they come, but as I think about GRRM and his building of tension, cliffhangers, character development, etc... These are all things you develop after, no? So I suppose a better question is, when you're done, what things do you make sure you've included/how to make them shine, really speak to the reader rather than describe a story?



My general point is start. My statement was a paraphrasing of something Neil Gaiman said.  You can get all that complicated shit after you've discovered your rhythm. You have to discover yourself before you discover your story. You're not writing in stone, you can easily edit. Worrying too much cripples many a writer before he actually begins. Worrying to much stops me from writing right now.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 1, 2015)

I feel like the only writer under 30 who doesn't care what Neil Gaiman has to say on writing.  Well, Risyth.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 1, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I feel like the only writer under 30 who doesn't care what Neil Gaiman has to say on writing.  Well, Risyth.



You probably should. Almost any writer can learn something from older ones, especially the ones who don't dress what writing is up to force an impressive quote. That's why Gaiman and King's advice is so respected.


----------



## ~M~ (Jul 1, 2015)

I really feel you do have to learn from everyone or everything.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jul 2, 2015)

YOU GUYS....what's more important (in order to be a good writer): imagination or experience?


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jul 2, 2015)

Experience comes with the writing. It's like a given. I think imagination's more important 'cause of the fact that no one would want to read something if you're a boring ass person who thinks watching the most remotely weird thing was result of psychotropics


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Jul 2, 2015)

I dunno; depending on the experiences you write from, you may not need much of an imagination


----------



## Krory (Jul 2, 2015)

I think it would more depend on what you intend to write, yeah... like the genre and such. Though I would imagine the best authors have a bit of both, and can combine them or use them to bounce off of each other - like adapting experiences in an imaginative way.


----------



## Tyrael (Jul 2, 2015)

I'm going to be a dickhead and say hard work. Both can come from hard work anyway.


----------



## Krory (Jul 2, 2015)

Okay, Naruto.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 2, 2015)

ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> YOU GUYS....what's more important (in order to be a good writer): imagination or experience?



The experience to put your imagination to good use.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 2, 2015)

Imagination is what lets you see the possibilities in experience.



Tyrael said:


> I'm going to be a dickhead and say hard work. Both can come from hard work anyway.



How does that work?


----------



## Tyrael (Jul 3, 2015)

Imagination is just like any other part of your mind, can be sharpened and honed with practice. The person who works harder will write more and that's where experience comes from.

Find the question a bit of a weird false dichotomy though - in what situation is that a choice of one or the other?


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 3, 2015)

Tyrael said:


> Find the question a bit of a weird false dichotomy though - in what situation is that a choice of one or the other?



Exclusively in hypothetical mental exercises.


----------



## ~M~ (Jul 3, 2015)

ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> YOU GUYS....what's more important (in order to be a good writer): imagination or experience?



Experience slams talent every day of the week, zero difficulty. Talent I see as a multiplying factor but experience is a linear increase in ability


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 3, 2015)

Em Senpai said:


> Experience slams talent every day of the week, zero difficulty. Talent I see as a multiplying factor but experience is a linear increase in ability



I don't know about that.

I hardly think Lovecraft's boiling obsession with immigrating minorities constitutes a useful experience in creating stories about cosmic horror, paranormal cults and unseen horrors.


----------



## ~M~ (Jul 3, 2015)

I don't think the experience has to directly translate to the skill. I think, for example, someone who has lived a hard life of starving and independence will be a better boxer due to vaguely overlapping benefits (handling pain, inventiveness, responsiveness) with those any boxer would gain from. 

immigrants, obsession -> the mysterious/unknown, cults 

If the question was direct experience then no, you don't need experience. Life skills are really important though. 

I play for example competetive pokemon and while I know it 100% I'm trying to learn yu-gi-oh and I think I would be much slower and poorer if I didn't have my Pokemon skills though they are apples and oranges.


----------



## Krory (Jul 3, 2015)

Em Senpai said:


> I don't think the experience has to directly translate to the skill. I think, for example, someone who has lived a hard life of starving and independence will be a better boxer due to vaguely overlapping benefits (handling pain, inventiveness, responsiveness) with those any boxer would gain from.
> 
> immigrants, obsession -> the mysterious/unknown, cults
> 
> ...


----------



## Krory (Jul 3, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I don't know about that.
> 
> I hardly think Lovecraft's boiling obsession with immigrating minorities constitutes a useful experience in creating stories about cosmic horror, paranormal cults and unseen horrors.



Hey, fuck you, if it weren't for his rampant racism he would've _never_ come up with the idea of a cat named "Niggerman."


----------



## ~M~ (Jul 3, 2015)

I'll simplify it further: if I have experience cutting apples, it helps me the first time I cut an orange 

So 'experience' is a generally useful increase in ability 

Talent is more the speed and ceiling you're going to experience in that ability


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 3, 2015)

Krorypheus said:


> Hey, fuck you, if it weren't for his rampant racism he would've _never_ come up with the idea of a cat named "Niggerman."



Apparently "Niggerman" wasn't even an uncommon name for cats at the time. 



Lovecraft was a weird sort because, by all accounts, he was probably autistic or had aspergers; even for the time his hatred of immigrants was pretty severe, and bordered on paranoia (though it had less to do with simple skin color and more to do with the general social isolation of the city and all them funny speakin', dark skinned foreigners making him feel awkward).  

From what I've read he actually calmed down a bit in his later years before he died.


----------



## ~M~ (Jul 3, 2015)

^But if you think about it, that experience makes total sense with conveying horror with the alien and mystique in writing


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 3, 2015)

I think when you're saying experience you're equating that with simply being alive and not locked away from stimuli for your childhood.  Everyone has experience.

When people say "experience" they don't just mean being a live for 20 years where, inevitably, something weird or bad happened; they mean notable or exceptional experience.  Like, being in a combat zone during an active war, getting lost in the Utah wilderness, a violent, abusive childhood, and so forth--obviously everything you are, experience, enjoy, hate, and do influences your writing, but that's not what people mean when they're saying 'experience.'


----------



## Krory (Jul 3, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Apparently "Niggerman" wasn't even an uncommon name for cats at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Of course, with his whole social-philosophy penchant, he often wrote op-eds on how these evil foreigners were destroying the world. He took shots at all sorts, though - blacks, Jewish, Chinese, etc. But yeah, I often hear (as my brother watches a lot of documentaries and shit on him) people say he almost certainly was autistic and suffered from some form agoraphobia. Though if _anything_ contributed to his writing, it was surely his misanthropy. I don't think that can even be argued, it's borderline obvious with most of the cosmic-horror scenarios. Each one is basically saying, "Life is pointless, humans are meaningless."

But many people still think his racism was the biggest contributor to his writing so we get people who defend his racism, or say his works are garbage solely _because_ he's racist (and not because he has the tendency to abuse the same adjectives and phrases throughout various works). If anything, the racism was probably a result of his misanthropy.

But yeah, things started to turn around when he met his wife (an Irish-Jew, to boot!), though I think in his final days he went back to reclusiveness. Might be mistaken on that though.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 3, 2015)

It really does explain a lot.  His general agoraphobia, paranoia and social anxiety really paints a pretty revealing light on all of his stories--most of them deal with extreme isolation, alienation and foreign things.  

Though that's been documented.

Virtually all of his stories carry the theme of slow, unsettling change, of towns being sinister and different, of feeling alone, isolated and horrified, and coupled with a nihilistic view of an indifferent universe.


----------



## ~M~ (Jul 3, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I think when you're saying experience you're equating that with simply being alive and not locked away from stimuli for your childhood.  Everyone has experience.
> 
> When people say "experience" they don't just mean being a live for 20 years where, inevitably, something weird or bad happened; they mean notable or exceptional experience.  Like, being in a combat zone during an active war, getting lost in the Utah wilderness, a violent, abusive childhood, and so forth--obviously everything you are, experience, enjoy, hate, and do influences your writing, but that's not what people mean when they're saying 'experience.'



Everyone has a very different set of experiences. Very 

So as a pokemon player who has strategic awareness of feints, predictions, etc, 

It bleeds into my learning of yu-gi-oh and it was very easy to get good at it too despite it being very different. 

I suppose the difference here is that we're looking at 'experience' in two ways, I'm referring to descriptions of people's ability and you're referring to events that have happened to them and I don't think either is wrong. 

I think it's harder to imagine when you're not experienced


----------



## Krory (Jul 3, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> It really does explain a lot.  His general agoraphobia, paranoia and social anxiety really paints a pretty revealing light on all of his stories--most of them deal with extreme isolation, alienation and foreign things.
> 
> Though that's been documented.
> 
> Virtually all of his stories carry the theme of slow, unsettling change, of towns being sinister and different, of feeling alone, isolated and horrified, and coupled with a nihilistic view of an indifferent universe.



An utter disdain for science at times also helped. Aside from insisting Einstein was exceeding his reach, his stories also touch upon ramifications of humans not being content with their meaningless existence and trying to unlock more secrets (like The Dunwich Horror, though that tends to be panned these days as the good guys won), or fear of mortality like in Herbert West or Cool Air.

Suffice it to say, dude was loco in the cabasa.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 3, 2015)

Krorypheus said:


> An utter disdain for science at times also helped. Aside from insisting Einstein was exceeding his reach, his stories also touch upon ramifications of humans not being content with their meaningless existence and trying to unlock more secrets (like The Dunwich Horror, though that tends to be panned these days as the good guys won), or fear of mortality like in Herbert West or Cool Air.
> 
> Suffice it to say, dude was loco in the cabasa.



I think that's what makes all his stuff so tantalizing and compelling for me.

It was written at a time where the world hadn't been entirely documented; there was mystery and unknown left in the world.  The unknown and the unsettling fear accompanied with it is in all of his stories, and it's exceedingly sincere.

And I love it.

And, yeah, dude was nuts.


----------



## Krory (Jul 3, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I think that's what makes all his stuff so tantalizing and compelling for me.
> 
> It was written at a time where the world hadn't been entirely documented; there was mystery and unknown left in the world.  The unknown and the unsettling fear accompanied with it is in all of his stories, and it's exceedingly sincere.
> 
> ...



I enjoy more of the stuff that isn't so heavily tied to the whole "Cthulhu Mythos." It probably has mostly to do with the massive popularity of Cthulhu having exhausted me, and it - in a way - detracts from his other stuff with some people. Even still, his works in that area come from a "good" place in a way even if it's pretty commonly perverted by fans these days and turned into a pop-culture icon.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 3, 2015)

Krorypheus said:


> I enjoy more of the stuff that isn't so heavily tied to the whole "Cthulhu Mythos." It probably has mostly to do with the massive popularity of Cthulhu having exhausted me, and it - in a way - detracts from his other stuff with some people. Even still, his works in that area come from a "good" place in a way even if it's pretty commonly perverted by fans these days and turned into a pop-culture icon.



I think you can tell pretty quickly if someone has read a lot of Lovecraft with what they associate him.    Cthulhu isn't his most interesting creation.


----------



## Krory (Jul 3, 2015)

My brother goes right to Cthulhu a lot but he _has_ read most of the available stories in print. Though I haven't talk to him about it _too_ much.  And he likes the movie Re-Animator more than the story Herbert West. 'cause Jeffrey Combs. On that note, I could probably agree.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 3, 2015)

I like most of Lovecraft's stuff, including Cthulhu, but cultural saturation has worn a lot of people out on it, myself included.  

I know someone else had talked about this with me as well, but I also don't think he translates well into many other mediums, and am not particularly excited about Del Toro's adaptation of _At the Mountains of Madness. _


----------



## Krory (Jul 3, 2015)

I've basically come to expect that no real adaptation of Lovecraft is going to be anything like what they're adapting, and in most cases they just mishmash a bunch of things. Prime example: that atrocious _Dagon_ movie (which I still say _Resident Evil 4_ totally ripped off). Was more similar to another work, I want to say it was _The Shadow Over Innsmouth_, but can't remember... but even then it was primarily Frankensteining a bunch of other things onto it.

Anyways... got to get to a point where you just have to accept the "adaptations" as fanfiction or something or more like homages like _In the Mouth of Madness_. 

The closest thing I can think of as a good adaptation was _The Whisperer in Darkness_, which was still a pretty great movie even though the ending was dramatically changed to "make it a better movie," though the first half or more still follows pretty true. Still a pretty good movie overall, and I dig how they did it in a 30's classic-movie style. 

I like del Toro and I'll probably like the movie... but I can't imagine it'll be what people expect, even if he's such a huge Lovecraft fan as he proclaims.


----------



## Krory (Jul 3, 2015)

Now I won't be able to sleep with how bad _Dagon_ was...

Sigh...

Thanks, Boskov.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 3, 2015)

Tyrael said:


> Imagination is just like any other part of your mind, can be sharpened and honed with practice. The person who works harder will write more and that's where experience comes from.
> 
> Find the question a bit of a weird false dichotomy though - in what situation is that a choice of one or the other?



How do you practice imagination?


----------



## Krory (Jul 3, 2015)

By watching Blue's Clues.


----------



## Tyrael (Jul 3, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Exclusively in hypothetical mental exercises.



Sure, but hypothetical exercises tend to trend towards some greater hypothetical point, but I'm struggling to see that being the case here.



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> How do you practice imagination?



Reading a lot of different things, trying to write a lot of different things, writing things deliberately out of your comfort zone and living in a way you haven't before - and more besides.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 6, 2015)

Finally got over the ending of "The Devil's Only Friend" enough to get back into writing. I'm trying to put the other stuff I had on hold and play with this idea I've had for a little while about a kind of retired archetypal _Magic Girl_ who is grown, married and works a nine-to-five. It's in the very early stages, but everything I do now seem to comes out in first person when just a few years ago it was the opposite.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 6, 2015)

Also this is cool:


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jul 25, 2015)

Have you guys ever had to delete an entire section of your story because it didn't sit right with you? Because I just did that.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 25, 2015)

I've probably deleted more than I've ever written.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jul 26, 2015)

I've done that a lot.


----------



## Krory (Aug 2, 2015)

Lord Yu said:


> I've done that a lot.



Good night, sweet prince.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 3, 2015)

So I'm writing this superhero story (might turn it into a webcomic) and I've created multiple characters like one that can "talk" to machines and another who's able to cut anything by just looking at it, but I also have a character named Avici who's able to summon lava from her body (not turn into it) and turn into a swarm of bats. Regarding Avici, people are saying her superpowers don't match, and they should yet there're superheroes who have powers that don't match too, like Wolverine's healing factor and his whole bone-claws, Superman's powers, Susan Storm, etc. Yet one argued that those have already been established and that's just big crock of shit. I need someone else's opinion about this. What do you think? Because I was thinking "evil" and came up with bats and lava. Blood is overrated.


----------



## Krory (Aug 3, 2015)

It would depend largely upon the character itself. At the time Wolverine and Sue Storm's mass of powers probably seemed ridiculous (even though Sue's mostly revolve around manipulate wavelengths of light, and Wolverine's bone-claws were a retcon anyway). If you want the bat and lava combination to work, you have to own it. Wolverine is probably the best example of this when considering his two primary powers - the claws and healing factor. They have nothing to do with each other, yes, but they have to do with who he is: his berserker rage, his lone wolf (pardon the pun) mentality (at least at the start), his survivor-soldier backstory (again, a retcon though).

So basically yes, they may sound unrelated but the reason people think these things about characters now is, yes, they're "established" but a better way to put it is the powers are related to the _character_... not each other. It doesn't help that more modern super heroes do seem to have more regularly related powers, but still not always the case.

tl;dr version - fuck what people say, if you want it to work, make her own it. Make the lava and the bats fit who she is as a character and not just be what came to mind as symbolic of evil (and because you're tired of blood powers).


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 4, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> So I'm writing this superhero story (might turn it into a webcomic) and I've created multiple characters like one that can "talk" to machines and another who's able to cut anything by just looking at it, but I also have a character named Avici who's able to summon lava from her body (not turn into it) and turn into a swarm of bats. Regarding Avici, people are saying her superpowers don't match, and they should yet there're superheroes who have powers that don't match too, like Wolverine's healing factor and his whole bone-claws, Superman's powers, Susan Storm, etc. Yet one argued that those have already been established and that's just big crock of shit. I need someone else's opinion about this. What do you think? Because I was thinking "evil" and came up with bats and lava. Blood is overrated.



The thing is with the exception of Superman who was made 20-30 years before the others, all of their powers are related. Wolverine heals fast meaning the cuts in his skin heal after using the claws (same thing for the Kitty Pryde that has claws--she can let them pass through her skin). Susan Storm's powers grew over time, she used to be only able to turn invisible and they added the field projection because it was pretty shit how little she could do to help.

You didn't really give us enough information to tell you anything. Where did these powers come from? What are their limitations? A lot of the origin of a person and the source of the power will effect how people expect their powers to interact. A lot of the newer heroes have simpler power sets because they're not shrouded in publication histories clouded with years of continuity.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 5, 2015)

She grew up in a lava cave filled with bats.  Easy like Sunday Origin.


----------



## Krory (Aug 5, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The thing is with the exception of Superman who was made 20-30 years before the others, all of their powers are related. Wolverine heals fast meaning the cuts in his skin heal after using the claws (same thing for the Kitty Pryde that has claws--she can let them pass through her skin).



Except in Wolverine's original design, the claws didn't actually come out of him - they were conceived as a projection from the gloves he wore.  And even after that, the claws were supposedly a byproduct of the Weapon X experiment meaning he still had the healing factor before it... it wasn't until much, much later that the concept of bone claws were retconned in.

Even still, that doesn't make the powers related, it's basically just what I said.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 5, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The thing is with the exception of Superman who was made 20-30 years before the others, all of their powers are related. Wolverine heals fast meaning the cuts in his skin heal after using the claws (same thing for the Kitty Pryde that has claws--she can let them pass through her skin). Susan Storm's powers grew over time, she used to be only able to turn invisible and they added the field projection because it was pretty shit how little she could do to help.
> 
> You didn't really give us enough information to tell you anything. Where did these powers come from? What are their limitations? A lot of the origin of a person and the source of the power will effect how people expect their powers to interact. A lot of the newer heroes have simpler power sets because they're not shrouded in publication histories clouded with years of continuity.



Did this backstory a while ago and haven't thought about it since up until now. Don't know if it'll help though.



> Vanessa was bullied in high school. She was bullied because she was quiet, easy, fat, and wouldn't fight back. On her way back home, she was stopped by a group girls that attacked her. They cut off her hair, ripped her clothes and spat on her and then took pictures and put it up on social media.
> 
> She then discovered her powers (able to become invisible, summon lava and turn into a swarm of bats). She killed the girls in by burying them in lava. Then she decided to take it out on the entire school the very next day. The hallways and classrooms were filled with lava. Very few people survived. She went incognito for years until three years ago  and made herself the supervillian named Avici. Because of how much she was bullied back then, she gained a warped sense of humanity decided there was no hope for it and wanted them all to die.



What one's superpowers would be are mostly based of their genetic code and when a person goes through a great deal of emotional stress and/or pain. Everyone in the world has the ability to unleash their superpowers in the story but only about 10% of the world can successfully. 

I'm thinking of taking out the bats now.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 10, 2015)

Okay, I read this whole thing at work when I didn't have time to really respond and then the thread slipped my mind. 



Malicious Friday said:


> Did this backstory a while ago and haven't thought about it since up until now. Don't know if it'll help though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The genetic code thing doesn't make the most sense. I know that's kind of the way X-Men explained itself, but it doesn't even make much sense in their context of weather control, eye lasers, and the ability to build anything. 

It's going to be a lot harder to swallow in a book because there's nothing to wow or distract the reader. You're putting a lot of pressure on yourself to see this idea. If you had said "she has enhanced strength or something biologically possible like that it'd be one thing. The part about the bats doesn't seem to make sense with it, so yeah it seems like it might be too much. If you said she got her powers from a deal with a demon or something it would make things everything you've listed possible. 

Anything can work, though, if you sell it the right way. 

Also, the paragraph you wrote there: is that for your notes or for someone else to look over? It seems slightly unclear. You say she's easy and an easy target, but are you saying that she's easy as in she's loose or just repeating yourself. 

Then in the first sentence you say "X was bullied in high school." You start the next sentence by restating the same fact over again; you're better off not doing that because it reads like a tactic from someone who is trying to get a certain word count or lengthen what they've wrote for some reason.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 10, 2015)

Oh, those are just notes, so grammar wasn't important to me then.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 10, 2015)

Ah, okay. I wasn't sure if this was something you were writing up to show someone or post somewhere on a blog or something, that's all.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 10, 2015)

For the genetic code thing, I was thinking of doing something with aliens being the origins of their superpowers, because I wanted to do something I think is different. Like, millennia ago, aliens experimented on the first humans and gave them preternatural abilities or something along the lines of that. The idea was kind of inspired from the Ancient Aliens television show


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 10, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> For the genetic code thing, I was thinking of doing something with aliens being the origins of their superpowers, because I wanted to do something I think is different. Like, millennia ago, aliens experimented on the first humans and gave them preternatural abilities or something along the lines of that. The idea was kind of inspired from the Ancient Aliens television show



That's something I've seen done somewhere before, but I can't place where. Not a bad idea and it would give you more of a power set to play with.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 10, 2015)

What do you mean?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 11, 2015)

I've seen something where alien experiments years ago caused super powers, or at least I think that I have. I can't really remember.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 11, 2015)

Lol, no, no. I meant the whole " it would give you more of a power set to play with" thing.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 17, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> Lol, no, no. I meant the whole " it would give you more of a power set to play with" thing.



The believable set of powers that could result from alien intervention are much more diverse than the set that would result from natural evolution or mutations.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 4, 2015)

Bump.  *bumps*


----------



## Rapidus (Sep 4, 2015)

Does anyone have any tips on how to approach a teen angst story akin to like how Soap Operas do it as well as TV series' like Degrassi and such?


----------



## Krory (Sep 17, 2015)

This place just ain't the same without Yu.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 20, 2015)

Rapidus said:


> Does anyone have any tips on how to approach a teen angst story akin to like how Soap Operas do it as well as TV series' like Degrassi and such?



There are several stages to a question like that. Are you writing it for teens or for adults? Are you wanting to make it straight teen writing without any kind of science fiction bend? Are these even "genre fiction" (I hate using the term), but are they romance or something else like that? There's some other stuff I could ask, but really the thing I worry about when I hear this phrase is "teen angst" seems to sound like the kind of melodramatic thing that tends to come off as corny in most cases. 

The challenge is going to be writing teens while remembering that teens are teens and thus their way of thinking seems irrational to most adults, but due to inexperience and hormones they tend to have a different way of looking at the things they're going through. 

Balancing their weird behavior with not making them look stupid to the reader can be hard. One way to research this is the read primary sources; read some stuff written by teens. Blogs is probably the easiest way to do this and those are not hard to gain access to in this and age. 

Snoop around some teen forums, like the teen part of Reddit, but not in that Jared-sort-of-way.

Also pay attention to what teens say in public, this is how I learned to write dialogue better. I just went into public places and listened to the way people spoke, the beats the hit, the information they revealed and the information they did.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 20, 2015)

I watched so much Degrassi, but all I did was swing between extreme boredom and fits of extreme laughter.  At some point I realized half the cast wasn't in highschool anymore.  Like that girl that dropped out to be a Japanese singer but had to come back after a year and then sue her manager for her money.  She's got to be my favorite, and if not that, then the only one I remember.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 20, 2015)

> Vanessa was bullied in high school. She was bullied because she was quiet, easy, fat, and wouldn't fight back. On her way back home, she was stopped by a group girls that attacked her. They cut off her hair, ripped her clothes and spat on her and then took pictures and put it up on social media.
> 
> She then discovered her powers (able to become invisible, summon lava and turn into a swarm of bats). She killed the girls in by burying them in lava. Then she decided to take it out on the entire school the very next day. The hallways and classrooms were filled with lava. Very few people survived. She went incognito for years until three years ago and made herself the supervillian named Avici. Because of how much she was bullied back then, she gained a warped sense of humanity decided there was no hope for it and wanted them all to die.



I relate to her desire to bury all of her problems in lava.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 25, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I watched so much Degrassi, but all I did was swing between extreme boredom and fits of extreme laughter.  At some point I realized half the cast wasn't in highschool anymore.  Like that girl that dropped out to be a Japanese singer but had to come back after a year and then sue her manager for her money.  She's got to be my favorite, and if not that, then the only one I remember.



How could you forget about the school shooting stuff and Jimmy getting put in a wheel chair. I saw that little bit first and decided I had to watch more because shows for teens from the US weren't doing shit like that at the time. 

Degrassi was brave without being over the top like Skins ended up being. Really, the first season of Skins is the probably the only part worth a damn even if just for the part at the very end.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Nov 27, 2015)

I just realized a bunch of my characters are massively OP from my books. I don't know what it is that I like about power, but I fucking love to be absurd with it. For example, I have a self-inserted character by the name of Steven Friday who can basically withstand an explosion equal to that of 10 centillion suns and come out with less than a scratch. He can rip apart whole universes by just looking in a single direction and absorb enough power to turn all of existence into fiction. He's made infinity stop by absorbing all of existence, and killed eternity. He can turn water into fire, universe into ants, and by the end of book 6, he is a god--well, him and Vincenzo, his enemy.

And you people must think I'm kidding too. He actually does all of this in the books into order to just beat Vincenzo, who eventually kills him because he lost his powers after having squabbling with the Christian God Himself. (It actually makes me wonder if Vincenzo is more powerful ) To be honest, I feel as though he can kill God and claim his throne.

But after watching the Goku vs Superman fight, and after years of wondering about where his weakness are, I think it's safe to assume he actually has a couple. For one, this man's mental state is way less than ideal.  He is the physical embodiment of insanity and psychopathy and will destroy trillions of universes just for the lawls. And I think the only reason I was able to have him defeated is because he can be outsmarted. His bloodlust is just so great that it can blind his intelligence and make him utterly ruthless and animalistic. His intelligence is only at a 136 IQ (which is smart, but not intelligent enough to defeat another god). 

I'm not sure how people will react to such a character. What do you guys think?


----------



## Tyrael (Nov 27, 2015)

It's all about the way you present it really, and at that mostly the tone. If the story is suitably insane or extravagant, or the way you write is, then you're fine.

Just make sure that his flaws are meaningful in the story, and have a real, tangible impact on his development or he'll just become a rather boring plot bot.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 7, 2015)

25.139 Words ^^


How was every one else's NaNoWriMo?


----------



## Eternity (Dec 11, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> 25.139 Words ^^
> 
> 
> How was every one else's NaNoWriMo?



Spent working towards exams I'm afraid.


----------



## ~M~ (Dec 24, 2015)

Help me make this not terrible 



> So as a wadtistic schizophrenic, ever since I've been a kid I've had imaginary fantasies in my head playing while I do mundane tasks like walk to work and back or ride in the car, wash dishes, have quiet free time (working on crafts or electronics).
> 
> It's been basically self insertion of me, a main character, being a hero in this world I've thought up of and fun fact: delusions of grandeur are schizophrenic
> 
> ...


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 26, 2015)

Well, for one big thing, people have to want to read and/or understand what you're writing; it has to be engaging or compelling or enticing enough to keep going, and it feels like all this is heinously convoluted and in the context of a novel will either largely be fluff that can be ignored, putting all that effort to waste, or in the forefront and offputting to people.

Personally, one of the biggest things I see people doing when they're talking about worldbuilding for their novel is talking about the world, the history, the politics, the sociology, the magic, the technology and so on and so forth, but I rarely hear anything about what people are gonna _do _in all this, and that always makes me feel like all this worldbuilding is a veil to obscure uninteresting or half-baked characters and stories.

I love worldbuilding as much as the next book nerd, but I too have that problem of just having a world and then being like 'alright, gotta find someone to do stuff in it' and that is an ass backwards way of writing, in my opinion--that's not to say it's impossible, obviously, but especially for new writers I'd come up with characters first, or, at the very least, come up with characters in conjunction with your world, have them evolve together and have the story planned out before you finish that flavor text.


----------



## Tarot (Dec 27, 2015)

Question, so is this thread for general topics amongst writers?


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Dec 27, 2015)

Yes.



> but I too have that problem of just having a world and then being like 'alright, gotta find someone to do stuff in it'



lol I did this.


----------



## Tarot (Dec 27, 2015)

While I'm a student screenwriter and not a novelist, most of the advice I give should still be useful. One thing we learn is that we are always selling/pitching our ideas. Even if it's not to professionals such as agents and producers, we are still ultimately trying to sell to viewers who are gonna decide if they want to invest their time and emotions into our work. Keeping this in mind will help you with organizing your ideas more than you'd think. Always think about how you are going to pitch your story to others. 

Here are some questions to keep in mind: Who is this a story about? What is this story about? (Besides just the plot, what is this story _really_ about?), What kind of story is this? (Tone, themes, genre, style), Why do I care about this story? Why should a viewer care about this story? 
All of these questions should involve the characters.

Another thing to keep in mind, imagine that you're pitching to people with low attention spans. Make sure to keep things simple to explain so I don't feel like going TL;DR. Focus on the essential story. Something I'm taught is that your first arc/act will make or break if someone wants to continue. So where does your story start and what is the essential information?


----------



## Tarot (Dec 27, 2015)

Also, in TV writing, we have this format called a Pitch Bible, which is an absolute life-saver. I would like some feedback on the one I did for a show I want to make. Basically it's a organized Bible for our season 1. I would like some feedback on it.
Pitch Bible


*Spoiler*: __ 



Title:Nocturne
Genre:Action-Drama/Supernatural

High Concept:		Buffy mixed with Supernatural 

Logline:	Three teenagers gifted with powers are tasked with protecting their town against supernatural evils, and investigating a series of strange murders.
Format:	12-13 episodes, 1-hour run time. Mix of serial and standalone episodes. Every season will deal with a major serial case/plotline while having a few standalone episodes in between.  

Synopsis:	NOX (Nocturnal Operations and Extermination) is a secret government organization that deals with unorthodox crimes of the supernatural sort and various other threats. Besides various things that prowl the night, NOX also deals various criminal syndicates who use the dark powers for their own ends.  
	Agent Gavin Weiss (17) is sent to investigate a series of odd murders in the small suburb of Rockwood. Believing they may be connected to a local high school, he enrolls undercover to try to get a closer look at the situation. However, he remembered by a student he saved once, Eddy Ramirez (16). Another nosy student, Rebecca Parr (17) is curious and wants to know more about Gavin. While Gavin tries to keep his distance, his secret is discovered by them as they discover their powers. For their own reasons, they decide to help Gavin with his investigation. 
	The investigation will lead them further down a more complex rabbit hole that may be tied to a looming threat called the Mortum Opus, a mysterious new syndicate –to be dealt with more in-depth during S2.  
	As their time together grows, Eddy and Rebecca learn more about the secret world of NOX and consider joining in the future, while Gavin learns to make his first bonds in a long time. The three learn from each other to become a unified trio by the end of season 1 and a full-fledged unit in NOX.   

Main Characters:	-Gavin Weiss (17) is one of the younger members of NOX, but extremely adept for his age, and quickly making a name for himself. The main character.
	While Gavin was born into a relatively happy childhood, his life has been marked with hardship and abuse. As a child, he lived a fairly comfortable life with his father Andrew Weiss. However at the age of 8, Gavin lost his father to cancer and things only got worse from there. Gavin went on to move with his uncle Neal Weiss. Things seemed ok at first, but Neal was a manic drug addict who often took out his episodes on Gavin, often violently. Every day was a terrifying gamble for him. One day, during a particularly violent drug-induced episode, his uncle was about to kill him, when Gavin unlocked his electric powers and killed his uncle in defense. At the age of 10, he was moved to foster care. It wasn’t a very inviting environment either. Most of the other boys were from dysfunctional environments as well and often bullied Gavin. All this constant abuse from others causes Gavin to become more violent and resentful towards others until his powers flared up again. This caught the attention of NOX. At the age of 12, Gavin was given the opportunity to join them to control his powers. 
	Gavin spent the rest of his time training under NOX, honing his anger into his discipline and becoming a loyal member. During his training, he befriends a slightly older recruit, Gene, who becomes a distant big brother figure. One thing Gavin has from his years of hardship is a strong hatred for evil, and wishes nothing more than to get back at the type of people who hurt him and others. Gavin is very loyal to NOX, as it’s the only functional relationship he’s had since he was a kid. Outside of that, he tends to have hard time interacting with other people, and often doesn’t want to. However, after meeting Eddy and Rebecca, that may be changing. 

         -Eddy Ramirez (16) grew up in a working class neighborhood with his two brothers and mom. The Ramirez family was mostly raised by their mother Julia, while their father had been in prison for most of their life. Eddy may not have been given the most fortunate lot, but he always keeps a positive outlook and always looks out for his family and others. Although he tries to keep positive, there is one thing that gets at him. His older brother, Carlos, was a star student and got an engineering scholarship to college, and his younger brother, Noe, shows similar promise. However Eddy has never shown their potential and always felt like the mediocre one of the bunch, that is until he meets Gavin and unlocks his powers. He slowly becomes Gavin’s best friend. Eddy’s overall personality is warm and optimistic, a contrast to Gavin’s cold and cynical view.
	Eddie’s power is hardening his body to greatly increase strength and durability. His power gets more advanced as he learns more earth-based powers.  

         -Rebecca Parr (17) is a classmate and acquaintance of Eddy. Rebecca has lived the most “normal” life of the trio and has the least baggage. She comes from an upper middle class family, both of her parents are together, and she has an older brother off at college. Her comfortable life can make her come off as sheltered, but she’s quite capable of handling herself. Her father is an avid hunter, and has been teaching her since she was a child. She’s a skilled marksmen, hunter, and survivalist, in addition to years of athletic training. It was during a hunting trip that she first discovered her wind power when she was separated from her dad. Since then, she’s wanted to find out more about what she has. Much like Eddy, Rebecca has a much nicer vibe than Gavin, but she has a bit more of a sly edge to her. While usually nice, she’s a master at getting what she wants and will often go to any length to get it, usually relying on her wit and people skills.          

Series outline: 	*The crew all meet each other in Ep1
	*They eventually discover that there may be more than one killer. 
	*The Ice Killer turns out to be the bullied classmate that Gavin befriended. In a final desperation, he tries to go on a rampage with his powers at the school. Realizing that he can’t beat the main characters, he takes his life. This comes as a severe mental blow to Gavin. 
	*The true mastermind behind the murders is revealed but escapes, leaving Gavin a calling card for the Mortum Opus. 
	*Gavin makes his first true friends. For their work, NOX gives the invitation for Eddy and Rebecca to join. After some thought, they go for it, and begin their new training with Gavin.

Episode Structure:	Each episode will begin with a cold open for the monster/case of the week. The series will most likely have 3-act episodes where the cast tries to complete an objective. 

Episode loglines: 	
        Episode 1: Three people’s lives take a drastic change as discover their powers and the monsters that dwell the night. 
	Lunacy: The gang faces their first Full Moon as NOX recruits and encounters a powerful demon that may be above their league.
	Looming shadow: While the cast deals with an easy mission, NOX is troubled by a dangerous new syndicate making a presence. 
	Frozen Heart: The Ice Killer case is finally brought to its tragic end as Gavin fails to save a friend.
	Departure: With the case finally closed, Eddy and Rebecca make the decision of whether to join NOX.  

Art Direction: 	Nocturne has a comic-book look like Buffy, Arrow, or Daredevil. The music score would have a very alternative rock feel.


----------



## ~M~ (Dec 27, 2015)

I love your advice everyone  

I have characters, motives, etc... It's all there but I didn't continue because idk how to cut things down to make sense of what I see and yet convey curtly.

I didn't  know if world building shouldn't be first but tbh in my head characters came up first, it's certainly hard to be decisive with them ofc. And in my mind, I didn't think people could get the characters without the world but really the two should be seemless. 

Yeah it's just a really new process for me


----------



## Tarot (Dec 28, 2015)

I'm always shilling for the Pitch Bible, so you should try organizing your ideas into one. The key is that you're forced to answer questions about your own story and to never spend more than two paragraphs on single topic. Ideally, you should rarely go past one paragraph. 
Since you're working in novel format, you might want to switch episodes to chapter summaries. 

Also, feel free to to tell me what you think of my bible. Was anything redundant, awkwardly worded, unclear? I know I might be a bit pushy, but I want some opinions before school starts and I get way more busy.


----------



## ~M~ (Dec 29, 2015)

I'm on mobile since I'm on holiday but I really will when I'm home on my laptop


----------



## Krory (Dec 30, 2015)

I still miss Yu.


----------



## Tarot (Jan 1, 2016)

Who is this mythical Yu?


----------



## ~Avant~ (Feb 9, 2016)

So I've got these two orders in Heaven called the Saints and the Sages. With 7 Saint Kings and 7 Sage Lords.

Saint Kings:
1. Liam Jericho (og character)
2. Siegfried Volsung
3. Arthur Pendragon
4. Jeanne D'arc
5. King Solomon
6. Alexander the Great
7. Gilgamesh

Sage Lords
1. Arjuna
2. Miyamoto Musashi
3. Mulan Hua
4. Yukimura Sanada
5. Jiang Ziya
6. Raiko Minamoto
7. Guan Yu

So I'm trying to come up with Hell based persons to make up a mirroring two Orders; the Sinners and the Scourges. So far this is who I have. Any ideas for other people from mythology or history that I could use?

Sinners
1. Humbaba
2. Mordred
3. Pandora
4. Agamemnon
5. ???
6. ???
7. ???

Scourges
1. Oda Nobunaga
2. Daji
3. Orochimaru
4. Karna
5. Lu Bu
6. ???
7. ???


----------



## Malicious Friday (Apr 11, 2016)

Can I still be here if I'm doing comics now? I gave up writing books.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 26, 2016)

I don't think it matters considering that no one has been talking in here much. I haven't even been on the forum in months and I only came in here because I got an e-mail about this reply. 

Then I come back to find that the forum looks all crazy and shit now...


----------



## Andyman (Apr 28, 2016)

I write. 

A lot I'm about quarter into my first novel and I still have a lot of improving to do but I'm happy to see other people have a passion for the craft as well!

Well it doesn't seem to active but still wanted to share and all!

Good luck with your writing projects!


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2016)

Andyman said:


> I write.
> 
> A lot I'm about quarter into my first novel and I still have a lot of improving to do but I'm happy to see other people have a passion for the craft as well!
> 
> ...


It used to be pretty active, complete with drama. I don't know about the others. I actually just hadn't been here in a while. I think since late last year. I'm still working on writing, mostly trying to step out of my comfort zone more.


----------



## Andyman (Apr 28, 2016)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It used to be pretty active, complete with drama. I don't know about the others. I actually just hadn't been here in a while. I think since late last year. I'm still working on writing, mostly trying to step out of my comfort zone more.



I seeeeee

Well hopefully things get running again and all but comfort zone? Like writing wise? I get what you mean. You mean not comfortable writing certain subjects, right? 

That can be difficult but the important is to remember that all subjects can tackled and done well and its fun to try out new stuff!

I'm sure you'll do great if you keep at it and get in the mindset of writing it! 

My issues atm mostly come from figuring out how I write (juggling outling and pantsing) and learning to pace properly. I also need to work on my editing skills.

I'm just learning my flow.

Though I used to RP a lot which made me realize I'm a character guy first and foremost or that's what I like to think my strength is in


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2016)

I'm okay writing about most subjects, it's just that I don't tend to write in certain genres. So I am trying to write something that kind of fits into the style I like, but at the same time I am writing more out of my home genre while doing it. 

I've never been able to outline properly and my attempts to do that have always led me to think "I could be writing." Learning to pace for me was mostly about reading other people do it well. 

I still do RP a lot and yeah, I'm a character and dialogue type first.


----------



## kluang (May 22, 2016)

~Avant~ said:


> So I've got these two orders in Heaven called the Saints and the Sages. With 7 Saint Kings and 7 Sage Lords.
> 
> Saint Kings:
> 1. Liam Jericho (og character)
> ...



Sinners, Abu Jahal, Abdul Alhazard, Calon Arang (Bali myth evil witch)

By the way I'm currently writing. Trying to write. For the first time.


----------



## Keishin (May 22, 2016)

kluang said:


> Sinners, Abu Jahal, Abdul Alhazard, Calon Arang (Bali myth evil witch)
> 
> By the way I'm currently writing. Trying to write. For the first time.


What type of story are you cooking up?


----------



## Krory (May 22, 2016)

Malicious Friday said:


> Can I still be here if I'm doing comics now? I gave up writing books.



Don't start writing like Bendis.

Or Geoff Johns.


----------



## kluang (May 22, 2016)

Keishin said:


> What type of story are you cooking up?



A fantasy. A light novel. Reincarnation into a new world of sword and magic. Making fun of fantasy trope genre. MC got reality check slap on his face after a tragedy. He never regards his new parents as parents, just some NPC and it hurts him badly after they were killed, (I got this inspiration from Prince, his status sky rocketed so high after his death. At least for me though, on how I see it)


----------



## Malicious Friday (May 22, 2016)

Does anybody here mind reading and critiquing this script I wrote? It's forthe pilot episode of a cartoon show I'm working on called Eyes Wide Shut. I don't kno if I want it to be for kids, teens, or adults yet. I'm leaning towards teens though. 



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Then I come back to find that the forum looks all crazy and shit now...



Omg, right? They don't even have the Sasuke skin anymore on here and I always used that one. 



Jubilee said:


> Don't start writing like Bendis.
> 
> Or Geoff Johns.



I don't know who they are. Should I? I'm just converting my book into a webcomic.


----------



## Krory (May 22, 2016)

Ah, webcomic. And not necessarily. Popular comic writers for Marvel and DC respectively. Also now hacks who can't write for shit.


----------



## Malicious Friday (May 22, 2016)

Probably just ran out of ideas. There's a lot of Marvel and DC comics out thee and you can only do so much before running out.


----------



## kluang (May 28, 2016)

How do you make a spell incantation? Is there a rule to it?


----------



## Krory (May 28, 2016)

Malicious Friday said:


> Probably just ran out of ideas. There's a lot of Marvel and DC comics out thee and you can only do so much before running out.



It's less about overall ideas and more about he's started to defined characters more solely on their race, sexuality, or gender. Borderline distasteful at times as it relies heavily on stereotypes to boot (Jewish teenager Kitty Pryde getting triggered by a prison planet in space because it reminds her of concentration camps for no real reason though she and none of the family she's ever known ever experienced it and she has been INSIDE more notorious and disgraceful prisons before, the new Spider-Man Miles Morales doesn't like being known as "the black Spider-Man" and finds it obscenely offensive but repeatedly uses being black as an excuse or a get-out-of-jail-free card in arguments with friends and fellow heroes to guilt-trip about how hard his life is, forever character Ice Man is now gay and his fifty years of publication history and sleeping with women like Kitty Pryde and Mystique was him trying to compensate and put up an air of machismo because he was insecure and afraid to admit it because gays are never accepted or some such but I imagine Northstar would argue otherwise, black war hero James Rhodes is being groomed for a Presidency because he's black and that kind of thing is "in" now, just to name a few)...

Maybe it's because I'm a white man but I think there's a stark contrast about making a respectable character who happens to be black, gay, Jewish, Muslim, or what have you, and making a character that you're guilted into liking BECAUSE they're black, gay, Jewish, Muslim, or what have you.


----------



## Malicious Friday (May 30, 2016)

Oh yeah, okay, I see. I saw post on Tumblr about how there was a girl who wanted to be a superhero but couldn't so she did her own thing and it was supposed to be a thing about feminism but I guess the narration was too forced and there wasn't enough actual female characters in the artwork? People were complaining about how she said "You need _balls_" To make it in the world and stuff.

But I understand. That type of writing is just horrid. There's no depth to it and from what you described, I don't think I would want to read anything new from him. Is there anything on why he started writing like that?



kluang said:


> How do you make a spell incantation? Is there a rule to it?



Some people say you need to follow certain guidelines to writing magic. I've argued with people, and my mother for some reason, about how witches are humans and can't be immortal, or how one needs to speak only one language for all your spells to work and I'm just like fuck that. Fuck that in it entirety. Fantasy isn't supposed to have rules. You can't do what you want, and if it's believable and executed well, then it'll be fine.

Rambling on, you can do what you want. There aren't any rules, you don't have to make it rhyme, you can use several languages in one sentence if you want. All you have to do is make it work. Why? Because it's fucking magic. (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧.

(I'm passionate about magic.)


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 30, 2016)

kluang said:


> How do you make a spell incantation? Is there a rule to it?



There are a few tropes.

You can have each person have a personal incantation or phrase they use to invoke magic, or each spell can have it's own unique one.  Sometimes they just have to rhyme and come from the heart or carry your intentions.  There are also say it in Latin/Sanskrit types.

I like the personal ones like Lic Lac Lil-lac Lilac, Nake, Snake, Co-ba Cobra types, and I also like the Final Fantasy Tactics short spell specific types.  Personally.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 30, 2016)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I don't think it matters considering that no one has been talking in here much. I haven't even been on the forum in months and I only came in here because I got an e-mail about this reply.
> 
> Then I come back to find that the forum looks all crazy and shit now...



You sent me a message asking what I'm up to, and the answer is not much.  Particular with this forum.

I was inspired to start some new stories, but I kind hit blocks and wandered off to focus on other stuff.  

Much like I did when I couldn't figure out the new reply system to messages.  So here's your response, I'm pretty sure you'll get a notification.  I should probably focus more on writing out the finished ideas I have instead of doing anything new or waiting until I care about them again, but that's boring.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 30, 2016)

Malicious Friday said:


> Some people say you need to follow certain guidelines to writing magic. I've argued with people, and my mother for some reason, about how witches are humans and can't be immortal, or how one needs to speak only one language for all your spells to work and I'm just like fuck that. Fuck that in it entirety. Fantasy isn't supposed to have rules. You can't do what you want, and if it's believable and executed well, then it'll be fine.
> 
> Rambling on, you can do what you want. There aren't any rules, you don't have to make it rhyme, you can use several languages in one sentence if you want. All you have to do is make it work. Why? Because it's fucking magic. (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧.
> 
> (I'm passionate about magic.)



If magic doesn't have rules or internal consistency or established limits it's frustrating as a reader and I don't want anything to do with it.  I don't get why you can't magic every plot problem away, except for that it would break the story, and then I end up hating magic and the author and the characters with the magic written by the author.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 8, 2016)

Malicious Friday said:


> Oh yeah, okay, I see. I saw post on Tumblr about how there was a girl who wanted to be a superhero but couldn't so she did her own thing and it was supposed to be a thing about feminism but I guess the narration was too forced and there wasn't enough actual female characters in the artwork? People were complaining about how she said "You need _balls_" To make it in the world and stuff.
> 
> But I understand. That type of writing is just horrid. There's no depth to it and from what you described, I don't think I would want to read anything new from him. Is there anything on why he started writing like that?
> 
> ...



Everything has to have rules, even if it's just the rules that exist within the book to make the world make sense. If I'm reading something I I find that the person writing it is just doing whatever they want with no real explanation or rhyme or reason then I'm already less interested in the book. There are times when you can be more lax on the rules around magic and I think that's best for things like Lord of the Rings where magic isn't used heavily to help the characters and is more mysterious and kind of a thing of wonder. 

If your magic is going to be front and center you can bet I want to see some reasons behind what you're doing. 


The Pirate on Wheels said:


> You sent me a message asking what I'm up to, and the answer is not much.  Particular with this forum.
> 
> I was inspired to start some new stories, but I kind hit blocks and wandered off to focus on other stuff.
> 
> Much like I did when I couldn't figure out the new reply system to messages.  So here's your response, I'm pretty sure you'll get a notification.  I should probably focus more on writing out the finished ideas I have instead of doing anything new or waiting until I care about them again, but that's boring.


Yeah the new forum system is starting to grow on me, but there are some things I really miss like being able to go to the User CP and see all of the the messages there. I kind of meant to reply to this stuff in here a while ago and I thought that I had, but I must have tried from my phone and it just didn't like that. 

I'm writing much slower these days and trying to rework a lot of the ideas that I had. One of the things I've been doing a lot of is trying to plan more outside of my comfort zone while still writing the stuff that I would want to read (if I don't want to read it, why should anyone else).


----------



## Krory (Jun 8, 2016)

Malicious Friday said:


> Oh yeah, okay, I see. I saw post on Tumblr about how there was a girl who wanted to be a superhero but couldn't so she did her own thing and it was supposed to be a thing about feminism but I guess the narration was too forced and there wasn't enough actual female characters in the artwork? People were complaining about how she said "You need _balls_" To make it in the world and stuff.
> 
> But I understand. That type of writing is just horrid. There's no depth to it and from what you described, I don't think I would want to read anything new from him. Is there anything on why he started writing like that?



Marvel in general has taken the "all-inclusive" route but as far as I'm aware there's no real reason as to why it went this way. I believe the example you're mentioning sounds like the new Mockingbird comic (which is, ironically, a different writer). She talks about all this shit she went through like subjecting herself to X-Rays as a child or trying to find a magical artifact because she wanted to be a hero like the ones she looked up to but then she realized she lacked one thing all the heroes she liked had - "a Y chromosome." It was very cringeworthy.

Though ironically reminds me of Anthony Mackie (actor, currently playing Falcon in the Marvel films), having said basically that people these days are spoiled because everyone feels like they need someone just like them to look up to in the comic world - black people can only look up to black characters, fat people can only look up to fat characters, gay people can only look up to gay characters. Remarked how when he was a kid it was never like that, he always looked up to and loved characters like Superman and it never seemed to matter to him or anyone he knew at the time that Superman looked different from him. 




> Some people say you need to follow certain guidelines to writing magic. I've argued with people, and my mother for some reason, about how witches are humans and can't be immortal, or how one needs to speak only one language for all your spells to work and I'm just like fuck that. Fuck that in it entirety. Fantasy isn't supposed to have rules. You can't do what you want, and if it's believable and executed well, then it'll be fine.
> 
> Rambling on, you can do what you want. There aren't any rules, you don't have to make it rhyme, you can use several languages in one sentence if you want. All you have to do is make it work. Why? Because it's fucking magic. (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧.
> 
> (I'm passionate about magic.)



Aside from a few examples, it gets mildly frustrating when some writers try to make magic more like science.


----------



## kluang (Jun 26, 2016)

This is basically what I'm writing. A guy die. Reincarnated. A new life. A new world. With magic (maybe) I'm terrible in incatation so maybe I'll go with superpowers. The misadventure gamer and internet savvy guy who thinks he has all the tropes working figured out.

A very cliche and trope fantasy world. Typical elf and dwarf. Actually I want to add gnomes but saw no diff with dwarf so I drop them.

"That guy is the main villain."
"And how did you figured it out?"
"He muahahaha a lot and have hot daughter that I'm convinced 100% is sexual attracted to me."
"Really?"
"Chosen One perk, baby."


----------



## ~Avant~ (Jun 26, 2016)

So basically Deadpool in middle earth


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jul 3, 2016)

Jubilee said:


> Aside from a few examples, it gets mildly frustrating when some writers try to make magic more like science.



It does. Magic isn't really science, even though some things like potions are science-y. When it comes down to it, magic and science are like polar opposite with alchemy in between the two, like a Venn diagram.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 7, 2016)

If your spells are repeatable and are supposed to have consistent effects, then they have to have some rules or logic or reliable methodology floating around somewhere.


----------



## Eternity (Jul 10, 2016)

Magic needs rules if the character and you as a writer write it as a serious thing. Magic as a competitive element? Rules. Magic as a part of the natural world? Rules. Magic written into a comical or ironic/satirical piece? Rules not always necessary. 

Consistency is a good way to engage your audience. When a reader learns something, and see that something again later, they get a feeling of familiarity. We humans like consistency.


----------



## Krory (Jul 11, 2016)

Stop bossing me around with your magic privilege.


----------



## Eternity (Jul 11, 2016)

Who knows, magic without rules might work in some cases. Who am I to say what works? I haven't read nearly enough fantasy to say anything with certainty.


----------



## Krory (Jul 11, 2016)

ya thas wut i thot bitch


----------



## Eternity (Jul 11, 2016)

That would be sir bitch to you.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jul 31, 2017)

It's been a year, but can I bring this back? I want to bring this back. 


I feel like NF is dying


----------



## Krory (Jul 31, 2017)

No, NF is dead.


----------



## Eternity (Jul 31, 2017)

Bring it back, yeah.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jul 31, 2017)

So what have you all been up to? I have no friends anymore so I came back here.


----------



## Demetrius (Jul 31, 2017)

i'm not an aspiring  novelist but how many of u r dead so far


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 2, 2017)

Most of us, really. This place has never been the same since the war. I only came back to reminisce with old buddies, but it seems a lot of them are dead. Sad, really, what war does to us. Johnny's head was never the same. PTSD they said. He killed himself thinking the Japs were still out to get them.

"I'm right here," Johnny complained, looking at me with those eyes of his. "Stop telling people I'm dead."

Sometimes I can still hear that disgusting laugh of his.

"I thought you liked it!"

I hated it.


----------



## Krory (Aug 2, 2017)

Trinity said:


> i'm not an aspiring  novelist but how many of u r dead so far



I'm dead inside.


----------



## Krory (Aug 8, 2017)

ok


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 12, 2017)

I think when they site changed from the old style a lot of us were already gone, but that made it kind of hard to pop in and really say anything.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 17, 2020)

Genuinely sad that this thread died. Was talking to Tyrael earlier tonight and we got on about it and I just had to go find it.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 18, 2020)

My novella is *very probably* getting published come end of October.
Like, legit "on a book store" and everything.
We're all gonna make it folks

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 6, 2020)

All of this quarantine and being alone most of the day is really killing my ability to write. I think in December and November last year I wrote more than I have from March until now.

I read a thing about how if you look at the last big pandemic versus other tragedies like the world wars and the depression you'll find that there seems to be less artistic creativity going on during the pandemic even though people might have been alone more and there was definitely something dramatic going on that one could write about.

Reactions: Friendly 1


----------



## Keishin (Aug 7, 2020)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> All of this quarantine and being alone most of the day is really killing my ability to write. I think in December and November last year I wrote more than I have from March until now.
> 
> I read a thing about how if you look at the last big pandemic versus other tragedies like the world wars and the depression you'll find that there seems to be less artistic creativity going on during the pandemic even though people might have been alone more and there was definitely something dramatic going on that one could write about.


What I know of is that there are golden eras of different types of genres always after wars, so I guess pandemics are sort of like those.


----------



## Magic (Nov 3, 2020)

Have any of you published anything before?

Hello~


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 3, 2020)

RemChu said:


> Have any of you published anything before?
> 
> Hello~


In school and local news papers, yeah. That's about it.


----------

