# Kei Kurono(Gantz) vs Space Marine(WH40k)



## Berserkhawk z (Nov 18, 2008)

Kei starts with an X-Gun and the marine starts with a basic bolter, both have their respective suits, who wins?


----------



## Vault (Nov 18, 2008)

kei gets smacked around


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Nov 18, 2008)

Vault023 said:


> kei gets smacked around



Seconded.


----------



## Pintsize (Nov 18, 2008)

Seriously?

From what I've always heard of Space Marines, Kei should be able to outclass the standard marine easily.

I mean, I know he's know match for shit like Librarians, but just standard marines?


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Nov 18, 2008)

Pintsize said:


> From what I've always heard of Space Marines, Kei should be able to outclass the standard marine easily.



Just curious, what have you heard about Space Marines?


----------



## Berserkhawk z (Nov 18, 2008)

Just out of curiosity what durability feats does standard space marine power armor posess anyway?


----------



## Shock Therapy (Nov 18, 2008)

berserkhawk z said:


> Just out of curiosity what durability feats does standard space marine power armor posess anyway?



they can tank autocannon shots


----------



## Pintsize (Nov 18, 2008)

Ryoma Nagare said:


> Just curious, what have you heard about Space Marines?



Well, I know that they're superhuman, about nine feet tall, and have pretty bitchin' armor and weapons. In short, from what I've heard they're walking tanks, and while there's no way Kei could outclass them in firepower in durability, I haven't heard that they're especially agile, mobile, or reactive, especially not in the way the Gantz suits allow people to be.

Furthermore, Kei can turn invisible, and he knows how to do that offensively. 

Granted, I think one or two shots from a Space Marine and Kei is done for, but I don't see them making it. Perhaps I'm a bit biased from clips I've seen of the SM game in development, or from the cinematic clips featuring space marines from the RTS games, but there ya go.


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Nov 18, 2008)

Pintsize said:


> I haven't heard that they're especially agile, mobile, or reactive, especially not in the way the Gantz suits allow people to be.



Guys can dodge bullets easily. And regularly fight against beings even faster.

Just because the armor's bulky doesn't mean that it makes them slow. It's not power armor for nothing.



> Furthermore, Kei can turn invisible, and he knows how to do that offensively.
> 
> Granted, I think one or two shots from a Space Marine and Kei is done for, but I don't see them making it.



Not much helping either. I'm quite sure that Space Marine helmets have built in heat detectors and the like.


----------



## Caitlyn Jenner (Nov 18, 2008)

Can someone explain to me what the basic bolter does cause I'm having a hard time see how anyone could beat a guy with a gun that blows off limbs of your body.


----------



## Red (Nov 18, 2008)

Ryoma Nagare said:


> Guys can dodge bullets easily. And regularly fight against beings even faster.
> 
> Just because the armor's bulky doesn't mean that it makes them slow. It's not power armor for nothing.
> 
> ...


Kei can dodge a bullet at point blank in the face so I think they're both equal in the speed department. Durability wise, the X-gun bypasses durability and makes things explode from the inside out.


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Nov 18, 2008)

Red said:


> Kei can dodge a bullet at point blank in the face so I think they're both equal in the speed department.



Depends on the guns.

I'm talking about Bolter rounds.




> Durability wise, the X-gun bypasses durability and makes things explode from the inside out.



1. What is 'inside'? How does it know when to explode?

2. What is the strongest stuff in went through?


----------



## Red (Nov 18, 2008)

Ryoma Nagare said:


> Depends on the guns.
> 
> I'm talking about Bolter rounds.


How fast are bolter rounds?



> 1. What is 'inside'? How does it know when to explode?
> 
> 2. What is the strongest stuff in went through?


1) 'Inside" as in internally. You can target an organ and make it go pop without breaking the skin.

2) I dunno, maybe the dinosaur hide?


----------



## Pintsize (Nov 18, 2008)

When the fuck do Space Marines regularly use their helmets, anyway? I never see a picture of a space marine wearing a helmet, always those teeny tiny little heads. 

And also, IIRC the Gantz suits' invisibility also covers heat vision and the like.

I'm not steppin' into the speed department, but you're telling me these guys are actually bullet timers?

[YOUTUBE]BQj2IDn-6UA[/YOUTUBE]

I mean, I know they're epic and all, but bullet timing?

Ah well, I said my piece.


----------



## neodragzero (Nov 18, 2008)

Red said:


> Kei can dodge a bullet at point blank in the face so I think they're both equal in the speed department.



Space Marine Bolters made in the 31st century+ crap all over the typical hand gun that Kei dodged. They're fast enough to hit other space marines and penetrate space marine armor that tanks thunderbolts...That's just the 31st century we're talking about there.

Space Marines by the way have genetic and surgical tampering done upon them before they are considered full fledge newbie that actually takes up a spot in a squad that sees real combat. We're talking about extra hearts, bio-filters for atmosphere that would kill a person with ease, etc. A Space Marine is more than just the armor they wear.



Pintsize said:


> When the fuck do Space Marines regularly use their helmets, anyway? I never see a picture of a space marine wearing a helmet, always those teeny tiny little heads.
> 
> And also, IIRC the Gantz suits' invisibility also covers heat vision and the like.
> 
> ...



Read some Horus Heresy.

The Eldar aren't to be underestimated.

Space Marines actually do wear helmets with there only being a few exceptions rather than it being the typical idea; your vid alone going against the no helmets argument. Rookies don't walk around without helmets. I so wouldn't underestimate the advance sensors of a Space Marine from the 31st century, much less 41st. A standard Grey Knight stomps when it comes to the necessary pre-req to face the crap they have to deal with that no other space marine chapter is suppose to.


----------



## Pintsize (Nov 18, 2008)

I wasn't saying the Eldar weren't tough, just that no one in that video looked particularly fast to me.

But yeah, I guess that happens even to good series if they have 500 sources of canon.


----------



## Coteaz (Nov 18, 2008)

Niko Bellic said:


> Can someone explain to me what the basic bolter does cause I'm having a hard time see how anyone could beat a guy with a gun that blows off limbs of your body.


A bolter is a rapid-fire weapon that has rocket-propelled exploding shells as ammunition. 
One shot pulps a human.


----------



## neodragzero (Nov 18, 2008)

Pintsize said:


> I wasn't saying the Eldar weren't tough, just that no one in that video looked particularly fast to me.
> 
> But yeah, I guess that happens even to good series if they have 500 sources of canon.


An odd director chose, especially that slow shot for the running Eldar that seems kind of a bad choice to me, doesn't really do much against storylines that are more than just minutes of CGI.

It's pretty obvious that none of them are Grey Knights anyway...



Coteaz said:


> A bolter is a rapid-fire weapon that has rocket-propelled exploding shells as ammunition.
> One shot pulps a human.



One shot in Horus Rising for instance has been shown to easily annihilate the head of a space marine...while they are wearing a helmet of course. We're talking about some serious penetration here.


----------



## Coteaz (Nov 18, 2008)

neodragzero said:


> One shot in Horus Rising for instance has been shown to easily annihilate the head of a space marine...while they are wearing a helmet of course. We're talking about some serious penetration here.


There have been instances in fluff where bursts of bolter fire have blown apart sections of buildings, so yeah. Kurono isn't wearing anything close to power armor, and as such would be splattered in a single shot.


----------



## Pintsize (Nov 18, 2008)

Well, it's a good thing that it wasn't specified that Grey Knights are the ones competing here, then, eh?


----------



## neodragzero (Nov 18, 2008)

Pintsize said:


> Well, it's a good thing that it wasn't specified that Grey Knights are the ones competing here, then, eh?



No chapter was specified at all. You basically commented on a specification first actually with your little vid.


----------



## mystictrunks (Nov 18, 2008)

Ryoma Nagare said:


> 2. What is the strongest stuff in went through?



Building materials, like concrete. Dinosaur hide, the Oni aliens skin, and the last big alien.


----------



## Red (Nov 19, 2008)

neodragzero said:


> Space Marine Bolters made in the 31st century+ crap all over the typical hand gun that Kei dodged. They're fast enough to hit other space marines and penetrate space marine armor that tanks thunderbolts...That's just the 31st century we're talking about there.


 Penetration doesn't factor on velocity of the bullet alone. Just because a weapon was made in the future doesn't mean the technoloigcal advancement would some how make the bullet faster. That's an assumption.


> Space Marines by the way have genetic and surgical tampering done upon them before they are considered full fledge newbie that actually takes up a spot in a squad that sees real combat. We're talking about extra hearts, bio-filters for atmosphere that would kill a person with ease, etc. A Space Marine is more than just the armor they wear.


Then it's just a matter of targeting their extra organs as well. Multiple heart shots


----------



## Ork (Nov 19, 2008)

1: Bolter rounds are "Smart rounds", they can explode when necessary.
2: Bolters have been known to take apart buildings made of plastcrete, which is MUCH tougher than any building materials we use today.
3: Space Marines are Genetically enhanced to a HUGE Degree, making them faster than normal at basic level, POWER ARMOUR enhances their speed. It adds power to every action they do. So yes, if not bullet timers, then damn fucking close.
4: Space marine armour can take tank shells at least half the time.


----------



## Fang (Nov 19, 2008)

Cannon fodder Las-Guns have blasted through over five meters of solid concrete with no problem.

A Hell Gun is much more powerful. And the Hell-Gun can't do shit to your sterotypical Space Marine's armor.

A Bolter Gun in comparision is a sub-automatic to automatic machine gun pistol or carbine which has bullets equivalent to self-contained RPG rounds.


----------



## Red (Nov 19, 2008)

X-gun by passes durability so why are we talking about how strong the armor is..?


----------



## skiboydoggy (Nov 20, 2008)

Red said:


> X-gun by passes durability so why are we talking about how strong the armor is..?


A roundabout way to discuss the insanity that is Bolters. Do you honestly think Kei could blow up multiple hearts before getting nailed by ONE shot from two automatic weapons?

Or even realise why the SM is still alive is due to having more than one heart?


----------



## Fang (Nov 20, 2008)

The armor repairs functions and helps sustain the Space Marines, not too mention the plethora of redundant organs and vitals the surgery and chemical enhancements that the Space Marines undergo after they pass as Scout Marines.

Bolters can put down Leman Russes, heavily armored tanks that can shrug off las-gun fire from a battalion firing on them get shredded by bolters.

Also how does Kei Kurono even become aware of all these additional organs and vitals that they have grafted? Take out one heart, great, the other is going to kick in and the power armor is going to pump heavy chemicals that amp up the Space Marine's biology to the point that he's a walking stim-stick.


----------



## Red (Nov 20, 2008)

TWF said:


> The armor repairs functions and helps sustain the Space Marines, not too mention the plethora of redundant organs and vitals the surgery and chemical enhancements that the Space Marines undergo after they pass as Scout Marines.


I'm pretty sure blowing up several hearts and the brain would be enough to put down a marine even with their stims.



> Bolters can put down Leman Russes, heavily armored tanks that can shrug off las-gun fire from a battalion firing on them get shredded by bolters.
> 
> *Also how does Kei Kurono even become aware of all these additional organs and vitals that they have grafted?* Take out one heart, great, the other is going to kick in and the power armor is going to pump heavy chemicals that amp up the Space Marine's biology to the point that he's a walking stim-stick.


X-gun has an X-ray scope.


----------



## Fang (Nov 20, 2008)

And the basic Space Marine is easily a bullet-timer, so what's your point? Is this X-Ray going to penerate the shielding and armor on the Space Marine's power armor now?

And how does this matter when he just has to shoot this terrible character in the head?

Not too mention that the hearts and additional organs that keep Space Marines going are hiddened and protected through several additional layers of super hardened extra rib cages and bones?


----------



## Red (Nov 20, 2008)

TWF said:


> And the basic Space Marine is easily a bullet-timer


So is Kei.


> so what's your point? Is this X-Ray going to penerate the shielding and armor on the Space Marine's power armor now?


You asked how kei would know of the extra hearts, I responded with he has an x-ray scope.



> Not too mention that the hearts and additional organs that keep Space Marines going are hiddened and protected through several additional layers of super hardened extra rib cages and bones?


X-ray scope can see organs, so it's not "hidden". And the extra hardened rib cages are useless since the x-gun can bypass durability.


----------



## skiboydoggy (Nov 20, 2008)

So again, Kei has to shoot off all of the SM's hearts with one weapon. The SM has two automatic weapons that only need to hit once to splatter Kei.

I'm going to go with the SM here.


----------



## neodragzero (Nov 20, 2008)

Red said:


> Penetration doesn't factor on velocity of the bullet alone. Just because a weapon was made in the future doesn't mean the technoloigcal advancement would some how make the bullet faster. That's an assumption.



Yeah...you clearly don't what you're talking about. The projectiles from the gun easily surpassed the reaction of multiple space marines while it was fired from distance rather than point blank. Technological advancement up to the horus heresy era is actually that drastic. I would appreciate it if you lay off trying have a generalization accusation thrown at me.


----------



## Darklyre (Nov 20, 2008)

Actually, if bolt rounds behaved anything like modern gyrojet rounds, then at a distance the bolt round would actually be going much, much faster than a regular bullet. Additionally, while modern gyrojet rounds have pathetically low speeds at short range, bolt rounds are fully capable of ripping armor apart, even point blank, meaning they have to have significant speed even before the rocket propulsion kicks in.


----------



## Red (Nov 20, 2008)

neodragzero said:


> Yeah...you clearly don't what you're talking about.


What, about the ballistics or Warhammer lore? Because if it's the ballsitics aspect I'm pretty sure I'm correct.


> The projectiles from the gun easily surpassed the reaction of multiple space marines while it was fired from distance rather than point blank.


I'm getting mixed messages. What I'm reading is "Bolter rounds are faster than normal bullets, Marines dodge Bolter rounds therefore they're faster than bullet timers." Now you say "Bolter rounds are fast because they easily surpass the reaction time of multiple marines while it was fired from a distance".

Which is it, can space marines dodge bolter rounds or can they not dodge bolter rounds?



> Technological advancement up to the horus heresy era is actually that drastic. I would appreciate it if you lay off trying have a generalization accusation thrown at me.


I'm not debating the technological advancement point. It's pretty obvious that WH40k is technologically advanced. The problem is you expect me to make a leap of faith and believe that, because one aspect of their technology is advanced that means their projectile fire faster.

It would be a lot easier for both of us if we had clear estimations or figures.


----------



## Shock Therapy (Nov 20, 2008)

is this a regular space marine or can it be any space marine?


----------



## neodragzero (Nov 20, 2008)

Red said:


> What, about the ballistics or Warhammer lore? Because if it's the ballsitics aspect I'm pretty sure I'm correct.
> 
> I'm getting mixed messages. What I'm reading is "Bolter rounds are faster than normal bullets, Marines dodge Bolter rounds therefore they're faster than bullet timers." Now you say "Bolter rounds are fast because they easily surpass the reaction time of multiple marines while it was fired from a distance".
> 
> Which is it, can space marines dodge bolter rounds or can they not dodge bolter rounds?


I didn't say anything about average space marines dodging bolter fire. Just that their capabilities are clearly beyond just simply bullet timing but the advance bolters still are fast enough to hit them point blank in the head area, while fired by a chaos tainted space marine. It's also even been specified that there's different ammo that a bolter can use; one of Horus's mournival, by the name of Loken, discussing with a fellow space marine the matter of subsonic shells that don't do a thing to armor while armor penetrating shells are quite above just supersonic and definitely penetrate armor on the basis of the speed itself.


> I'm not debating the technological advancement point. It's pretty obvious that WH40k is technologically advanced. The problem is you expect me to make a leap of faith and believe that, because one aspect of their technology is advanced that means their projectile fire faster.
> 
> It would be a lot easier for both of us if we had clear estimations or figures.



It was made clear that multiple aspects of the bolter makes it more advance than a modern day fire. While again I'm just bringing up the capabilities of bolters a thousand years before 40k. If we were talking about the development of Mechanicum Titans or some aspect of weaponry that needs to be found or preserved/built over centuries because it cost too much to make at later time, sure. But since that's not the case, I rather operate on the show capability of the bolter that isn't given to be at a technology stoppage thorough out the expanse of a millenium.

There's still no specification of which chapter...


----------



## Shock Therapy (Nov 20, 2008)

neodragzero said:


> I didn't say anything about average space marines dodging bolter fire. Just that their capabilities are clearly beyond just simply bullet timing but the advance bolters still are fast enough to hit them point blank in the head area, while fired by a chaos tainted space marine. It's also even been specified that there's different ammo that a bolter can use; one of Horus's mournival, by the name of Loken, discussing with a fellow space marine the matter of subsonic shells that don't do a thing to armor while armor penetrating shells are quite above just supersonic and definitely penetrate armor on the basis of the speed itself.
> 
> 
> It was made clear that multiple aspects of the bolter makes it more advance than a modern day fire. While again I'm just bringing up the capabilities of bolters a thousand years before 40k. If we were talking about the development of Mechanicum Titans or some aspect of weaponry that needs to be found or preserved/built over centuries because it cost too much to make at later time, sure. But since that's not the case, I rather operate on the show capability of the bolter that isn't given to be at a technology stoppage thorough out the expanse of a millenium.
> ...



High ranking officers/officials elite forces, and space marines on special missions receive different ammunition for boltguns.

    "* Standard Pattern - Standard explosive and propulsive charges used, depleted deuterium core and diamantine tip and mass reactive detonators.
    * Inferno Bolt - Deuterium core replaced with oxy-phosphor gel (a powerful chemical combination which burns on contact with air).
    * Hellfire Round - Explosive core replaced with thousands of needles impregnated with mutagenic acid for use against Tyranids. A Heavy Bolter variant (blast effect) is available.
    * Metal Storm Frag Shell - Standard charge and detonator replaced with fragmentation shell and a proximity sensor detonator.
    * Stalker Silenced Shell - Propellant and explosive replaced by gas cartridges, detonator cap replaced with solidified mercury slug.
    * Kraken Pattern Penetrator Round - Deuterium core replaced by solid adamantine core, heavier propulsive charge.
    * Odysseus Bolt - Psychically impregnated solid slug for tracking targets. "


----------



## Ork (Nov 20, 2008)

Red said:


> So is Kei.
> You asked how kei would know of the extra hearts, I responded with he has an x-ray scope.
> 
> X-ray scope can see organs, so it's not "hidden". And the extra hardened rib cages are useless since the x-gun can bypass durability.




Here's a key difference, they're both bullet timers, they're both wearing suits of power armour, they're both using weapons that WILL kill in one hit, or two at the most, the marine has been around for hundreds of years of constantly fighting and training to fight the scariest motherfucking monsters in any verse i've ever fucking seen, Kei is a Fucking High school student who gets his rocks off on killing aliens, that kind of difference in ability is insurmountable, if that wasnt enough, the marine is tens of times tougher and stronger under his power armour, crystalline enforced bones, extra organs, a HUGE body frame...
Marines have gone on fighting for minutes after being technically dead. 
Marines have so many genetic modifications that calling them Human is a joke, some have gene seeds that let them spid acid, some have animalistic senses, some can go into a berserker rage that literally lets them fight and fight and fight and stand back up after having half their body blown away, and keep fighting.

A challenge given to the Salamander Primarch was to prepare and kill the largest Salamander he could within 24 hours, he made himself a weapon in that time, then, with no armour, and no power weapons, he slew A firedrake, a huge fire breathing monster.

Putting kei and a space marine against one another in a fight is a pointless joke. Its like putting a baby with an RPG against a tank, sure, the potential is there to win. But it just aint fucking happening.


----------



## neodragzero (Nov 20, 2008)

rawrawraw said:


> High ranking officers/officials elite forces, and space marines on special missions receive different ammunition for boltguns.
> 
> "* Standard Pattern - Standard explosive and propulsive charges used, depleted deuterium core and diamantine tip and mass reactive detonators.
> * Inferno Bolt - Deuterium core replaced with oxy-phosphor gel (a powerful chemical combination which burns on contact with air).
> ...



Reading that strangely makes me drool....Thanks for the list.


----------



## Fang (Nov 20, 2008)

Abaddon in his Terminator armor verses Gantz with just a lightning claw.

Lawl.


----------



## Ork (Nov 20, 2008)

TWF said:


> Abaddon in his Terminator armor verses Gantz with just a lightning claw.
> 
> Lawl.



Lol so true, but its also true that Abaddon vs most verses is a shitstomp too , so don't feel too bad Gantzfans!


----------



## Mugiwara Luffy (Nov 21, 2008)

Red said:


> X-gun by passes durability so why are we talking about how strong the armor is..?




It took multiple shots from the X-gun to get through the Gantz suits (As shown when the hunters were going after Kei's girlfriend). Wouldn't that imply that it does not bypass durability?

Or is this just a special effect of the Gantz suit?


----------



## Berserkhawk z (Nov 21, 2008)

Mugiwara Luffy said:


> It took multiple shots from the X-gun to get through the Gantz suits (As shown when the hunters were going after Kei's girlfriend). Wouldn't that imply that it does not bypass durability?
> 
> Or is this just a special effect of the Gantz suit?



I think it's a special thing that Gantz suits have to protect them from a few X-gun shot's i actually chalk this down to why Niishi suit conked out in the second mission since he already took a hit from one


----------



## Red (Nov 22, 2008)

Mugiwara Luffy said:


> Or is this just a special effect of the Gantz suit?


Special effect.





Absence said:


> Here's a key difference, they're both bullet timers, they're both wearing suits of power armour, they're both using weapons that WILL kill in one hit, or two at the most, the marine has been around for hundreds of years of constantly fighting and training to fight the scariest motherfucking monsters in any verse i've ever fucking seen, Kei is a Fucking High school student who gets his rocks off on killing aliens, that kind of difference in ability is insurmountable, if that wasnt enough, the marine is tens of times tougher and stronger under his power armour, crystalline enforced bones, extra organs, a HUGE body frame...
> Marines have gone on fighting for minutes after being technically dead.
> Marines have so many genetic modifications that calling them Human is a joke, some have gene seeds that let them spid acid, some have animalistic senses, some can go into a berserker rage that literally lets them fight and fight and fight and stand back up after having half their body blown away, and keep fighting.



No amount of berserk rage would resurrect you if you have your brain turned to mush. No brain is easily a one shot win. The only argument here is who's faster. Like you said this is a "Who lands the first shot wins" thread and nothing, absolutely nothing has given a concrete estimation of the marines reflexes except vague statements like "He has fast reflexes lol" or "he has berserk rage k". If you want to have a clean and clear winner then your side and the guys advocating it should be able to back up in game fluff and explanations with comparable stats.
Huge body frame makes an easier target. As for extra organs I'm pretty sure a marine won't fight one without a brain. Unless they ave a back up somewhere 



> A challenge given to the Salamander Primarch was to prepare and kill the largest Salamander he could within 24 hours, he made himself a weapon in that time, then, with no armour, and no power weapons, he slew A firedrake, a huge fire breathing monster.


 Is primach a standard marine or a hero unit? Hero unit always have higher feats even if there in the same class as a standard marine.



> Putting kei and a space marine against one another in a fight is a pointless joke. Its like putting a baby with an RPG against a tank, sure, the potential is there to win. But it just aint fucking happening.


That's an over exagerated analogy lol.





neodragzero said:


> I didn't say anything about average space marines dodging bolter fire. Just that their capabilities are clearly beyond just simply bullet timing but the advance bolters still are fast enough to hit them point blank in the head area, while fired by a chaos tainted space marine. It's also even been specified that there's different ammo that a bolter can use; one of Horus's mournival, by the name of Loken, discussing with a fellow space marine the matter of subsonic shells that don't do a thing to armor while armor penetrating shells are quite above just supersonic and definitely penetrate armor on the basis of the speed itself.


 Wait, if they haven't dodged a bullet in their own verse, where is your basis for the bullet timing claim? The "increased reflexes by stim" explaination is vague and doesn't explicitly state that they can dodge modern day bullets. They can still have heightened reflexes and still be under bullet timing.


> It was made clear that multiple aspects of the bolter makes it more advance than a modern day fire. While again I'm just bringing up the capabilities of bolters a thousand years before 40k. If we were talking about the development of Mechanicum Titans or some aspect of weaponry that needs to be found or preserved/built over centuries because it cost too much to make at later time, sure. But since that's not the case, I rather operate on the show capability of the bolter that isn't given to be at a technology stoppage thorough out the expanse of a millenium.


 That makes sense.

Lets put kei's speed into perspective. The opponents he's fought, namely the lightning Oni demon, is far far above bullet timing. Sakurai was plucking simultaneous machine gun fire BEFORE he got the gantz suit:




The oni demon blitzed Sakurai AFTER he got the gantz suit and had his stats increased. Not only was Kei able to stand toe to toe with the lightning demon, he was able to inflict damage before the oni was blinded. That should be enough to prove that Kei isn't just a marginal bullet timer.



> There's still no specification of which chapter...


Which chapter of what?





Also here's kei's first bullet dodge from a meter away. Notice he didn't dodge the bullet immediatly it was shot, only after the bullet was a milimeter away he backed off. Add that to the Oni explaination I gave above and you can get a concrete idea of how fast Kei is.


----------



## Fang (Nov 22, 2008)

Oh god, he beat a bullet timer, that's something your run of the mill Space Marine has to do when routinely fightning Chaos Marines, Daemons and creatures of the void.

Oh so impressive--yaun.


----------



## Red (Nov 22, 2008)

TWF said:


> Oh god, he beat a bullet timer, that's something your run of the mill Space Marine has to do when routinely fightning Chaos Marines, Daemons and creatures of the void.
> 
> Oh so impressive--yaun.


I'm still waiting for bullet timing feats from a space marine. You're witless humor isn't providing that lol.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 22, 2008)

whose the woman in the video that has blue teleport like speed ? How is the gameplay of the series she's in ? The video looked entertainign enough, and I might be getting a xbox 360 sson because they've become cheaper.


----------



## Ork (Nov 22, 2008)

Red said:


> I'm still waiting for bullet timing feats from a space marine. You're witless humor isn't providing that lol.



To put it this way, space marines have been known, to, with nothing but 1000 warriors, and their vehicles, or less, exterminate An entire solar system of inhabited planets, decimating each world and every single living being thereon.
Also, we still don't have any reason to believe that Kei's gun is a oneshot kill. It doesnt oneshot kill some aliens, and most of them have shown to have inferior durability to a space marine.

My fave quote from space marines comes from an old codex

"After all of these implantations and alterations to the human body, there is a serious debate whether or not Space Marines are human. While they indubitably serve humanity, they are at least two meters tall, can breathe poison and eat through metal."

Space marines speed feats... thats hard to really quantify... unlike a manga, its a tabletop game with some novels... hmm... I'd have to say the only thing that really stuck with me was that A Fenrisian Native, not even a full marine was able to run down a fleeing 40k Scout Cycle... 

Take from that what you will.


A primach is a leader of A space marine legion, I believe there are 20.
By CHAPTER, we mean chapter of Space marines, 1000 marines per chapter, and every chapter has unique special abilities, The Night Lords have perfect night vision and nighfighting tactics, the Grey Nights are ALL psykers to one level or another, (Offsensive Psychics basically). Some chapters can spit acid, some can regenerate, some have amazing accuracy. There's even a chapter of DEAD marines, that come to the aid of the living at random occaisions.


It would be nice to know what kind of squad too, so we know what weapons they're equipped with.

Now, if you ask me for DURABILITY feats, well  I can supply those.
Space marines and orks have been known to continue fighting with over 40 percent of the Cranium destroyed. Destroying their brain is 
A: very hard,
B: Not sure to work.

They're all different basically, by knowing what chapter a marine is from, we can bring their unique abilities to the table in the debate.


----------



## Red (Nov 22, 2008)

Absence said:


> Also, we still don't have any reason to believe that Kei's gun is a oneshot kill. It doesnt oneshot kill some aliens, and most of them have shown to have inferior durability to a space marine.


It one shot the dinosaurs.
Same with the chibi's
The onion alien. 
The chickens.

The only reason a couple aliens could with stand it is because they had regen. 

Also don't misunderstand, the X-gun doesn't pierce armor, skin etc. It by passes the skin and kills from the inside out causing the part, organ etc targeted to explode. The only way you'd be able to survive is if you're internal organs are stronger than concrete.



> Space marines speed feats... thats hard to really quantify... unlike a manga, its a tabletop game with some novels... hmm... I'd have to say the only thing that really stuck with me was that A Fenrisian Native, not even a full marine was able to run down a fleeing 40k Scout Cycle...
> 
> Take from that what you will.


Well if you can give us how fast the motorcycles go then it'll help a lot.



> It would be nice to know what kind of squad too, so we know what weapons they're equipped with.


OP said standard, whats the standard norm?


> Now, if you ask me for DURABILITY feats, well  I can supply those.
> Space marines and orks have been known to continue fighting with over 40 percent of the Cranium destroyed. Destroying their brain is
> A: very hard,
> B: Not sure to work.


The cranium is different from the brain, that's basically the skull. From what's been said in the thread their bodies and bones are really hard. But I'm talking about the brain and other internal organs. The X-gun can tear through concrete so the organs should be harder than that.


----------



## Darklyre (Nov 23, 2008)

Red said:


> It one shot the dinosaurs.
> Same with the chibi's
> The onion alien.
> The chickens.
> ...



Unless the X-gun's shot completely destroys the vital organs on the first attack, the Marine can survive. Their blood has extreme clotting capabilities, to the point where they can lose an arm and the stump stops bleeding 1 minute later. This minimizes any damage they sustain, at least to the point where they can kill their enemy before dying.

As for the bikes, those things are supposed to run circles around your average Predator/Leman Russ, which themselves are supposed to be comparable or better in speed and maneuverability to a modern-day MBT like the Abrams. Considering an Abrams can go 30 mph off-road and 42 mph on a regular surface, I wouldn't put it past the bike to be moving at 40-50 mph off-road and 60+ on a road.

The standard norm for a Space Marine is one with all organs and implants active and non-mutated. Essentially, we're talking about an Ultramarine, who are the very definition of Codex-standard. Other chapters have differences in doctrine, physical traits, weaponry, etc.

And when they say that a Space Marine can lose 40% of their cranium, they didn't mean just the skull bones. They actually meant 40% of their head (hence the prevalence of bionic parts). Orks are much crazier in this regard, since they can actually be decapitated or have brain transplants and still work just fine after they're fixed up.


----------



## Pintsize (Nov 23, 2008)

Brain transplants? XD

Fukkin' orks, man.


----------



## Darklyre (Nov 23, 2008)

Pintsize said:


> Brain transplants? XD
> 
> Fukkin' orks, man.



Not only is it a brain transplant, but the actual organ in question doesn't even have to be a brain! Some Mad Doks use squigs instead of brains when transplanting!


----------



## Shock Therapy (Nov 23, 2008)

i don't see the x-gun penetrating 6-12 inches of ceramite armour. It takes 30 repeated shots from Hellgun's to even melt the armour slightly.


----------



## Pintsize (Nov 23, 2008)

How the hell are orks not ruling the entire WH40k universe? They are clearly powered by pure awesome.

Isn't their god more powerful than the Chaos gods anyway?


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 23, 2008)

The Orks are too busy fighting each other to care about the galaxy.


----------



## Pintsize (Nov 23, 2008)

Of course.


----------



## skiboydoggy (Nov 23, 2008)

Pintsize said:


> Of course.


Tha boiz only need their hood.


----------



## Ork (Nov 23, 2008)

Red said:


> It one shot the dinosaurs.
> Same with the chibi's
> The onion alien.
> The chickens.
> ...



Space marines have high regeneration also,
Here is one  of their regen abilities:
*"Phase 5 - Larraman's Organ* - A liver-shaped organ about the size of a golf-ball, this implant is placed within the chest cavity and connected to the circulatory system. It generates and controls 'Larraman cells' which are released into the blood stream if the recipient is wounded. They attach themselves to leucocytes in the blood and are are carried to the site of the wound, where upon contact with air they form a near instant patch of scar tissue, sealing any wounds the Space Marine may suffer."

The problem with destroying space marine organs from the inside, si that they have NINETEEN extra organs, Two hearts, Two Lungs, and an interface on their black carapace which is a copy of their brain, allowing function after brain damage.

Standard Normal Space marine is equipped with Antipersonell Frag grenades, One bolter (Ammo type unknown as chapter is unknown as well as their knowledge of engagement) A set of armour and a chain Knife.
However, within a normal squad, practically every marine can have extra gear, different gear... but bog standard marine with minimum equipment is as said above.


----------



## Fang (Nov 23, 2008)

Wyrd Boys yo.


----------



## Ratwedge (Nov 25, 2008)

Oh god.

Regular Blood Angels Veteran. 

1000+ years spent perfecting combat. Rape time for Kei. 

Better yet. Kei's looking around and then from the sky descends a Blood Angel, except this ones got Black Armor with Red Stripes. Oh yes, those who know WH40K know wat im talking about. It would be delicious.


----------



## Cy (Nov 25, 2008)

Red said:


> Special effect.
> 
> No amount of berserk rage would resurrect you if you have your brain turned to mush. No brain is easily a one shot win. The only argument here is who's faster. Like you said this is a "Who lands the first shot wins" thread and nothing, absolutely nothing has given a concrete estimation of the marines reflexes except vague statements like "He has fast reflexes lol" or "he has berserk rage k". If you want to have a clean and clear winner then your side and the guys advocating it should be able to back up in game fluff and explanations with comparable stats.
> Huge body frame makes an easier target. As for extra organs I'm pretty sure a marine won't fight one without a brain. Unless they ave a back up somewhere
> ...



In the last pic it looks like there's blood coming off of Kei's head. Doesn't look like he dodged that bullet very well.... Looks more like he was hit and you're seeing the backlash due to it.


----------



## Ork (Nov 27, 2008)

Ratwedge said:


> Oh god.
> 
> Regular Blood Angels Veteran.
> 
> ...



The oldest space marine alive is commander Dante who';s been alive for 1100 years. So no, not 1000+ years for a normal vet, but still at least 600 years.


----------

