# Kamui Vs Amaterasu(Can Kamui Extinguish Amaterasu?)



## Invictus-Kun (Oct 24, 2014)

This a Jutsu thread, we are not talking about who will use this jutsu, the question of this thread is to compare this jutsus in terms of offensive and defensive usefullnes.

Here are things we need to consider:
1. Casting time/ Speed
2. Chakra being consumed
3. AOE
4. Usefullness in battle


Please add up your own info to support your idea and claim, and Also please answer this Final Question.


Can Kamui be Used to Extinguish Amaterasu?

Discuss, Defy, Decide, and Defend.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 25, 2014)

Kamui is obviously the better Ninjutsu. Amaterasu has been virtually useless the entire war-arc. 

Any ninja that can avoid AOS, is behind a chakra barrier, or has chakra sapping abilities is immune to Amaterasu. 

Kamui is faster (near equal in initiation speed- but faster in appearance), appears on location (meaning it can bypass chakra barriers), and _cannot_ be absorbed because it's a warp hole, not a chakra construct. 

It's also useful in protecting allies, as it can warp them to safety, or attacks going in their direction, as well as the user's direction. It's obviously useful in distracting opponents with intangibility. Kamui can also be used to nearly instantaneously appear at an opponent's position for blindsiding, to travel extreme distances in a moment, to warp surprise attacks out of a dimension, to store unlimited supplies/weapons/comrades for immediate use at any moment, and to warp opponents away in under a second. 

Overall, Kamui is a much more useful technique. 

Kamui has warped/phased through (Full Kamui) Kaguya's Bones and warped (1/2 Kamui) MS Sasuke's surprise Susano Arrow, it can clearly warp Amaterasu.


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## Invictus-Kun (Oct 25, 2014)

I have the same opinion also dude.  Kamui is cooler indeed than Amaterasu.


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## Bonly (Oct 25, 2014)

1) Casting time/speed

Depends on the user. We've seen ranged Kamui from being slow and taking pages to get Deidara to sucking up a clone so fast that Obito thought he destroyed. Then with the Kamui Obito usually uses it's based on ones own reaction which means one could potentially dodge attacks from speed demons like A or Minato for example or still get their shit wrecked by said people. So again it depends on the user so I'd say equal here.

2) Chakra being consumed

Honestly I can't tell the difference anymore at this point in time in the manga really. So I'll shoot in the dark and say equal

3) AoE

Depends. The more chakra that's pumped into the jutsu, the larger the AoE gets though I'd say overall wise Ama would take the edge. 

4) Usefulness in battle

Kamui has this. I'm feeling a bit lazy now but I'm sure someone else with mention all the possible uses that each one of Obito's MS bring to the table compared to Purely Ama(no Enton include) so yeah.

Can Kamui extinguish Ama?

Literally? No, all it would do is send the flames to boxland.
Figuratively? Sure it has the potential to depending on the user


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 25, 2014)

If it is current Amaterasu, Kamui might stand a chance.

But I don't think Kamui can put out pre 697 Amaterasu.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 25, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> If it is current Amaterasu, Kamui might stand a chance.
> 
> But I don't think Kamui can put out pre 697 Amaterasu.



Pre 697 amaterasu is current amaterasu. People including me told you that shit would happen. Hell 2-3 weeks ago, I debated it. Quit acting like it was an asspull or something.


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## Itachі (Oct 25, 2014)

*1. Casting time/ Speed*

Depends on the user and his reactions, we've seen it being slow and we've seen it being fast. However, Kamui is faster to warp than Amaterasu is faster to burn, imo. Amaterasu couldn't kill Karin and even Obito countered it with Kamui itself.

*2. Chakra being consumed*

I have no idea.

*3. AOE*

Depends on how much Chakra the user puts into it, I'd say that both are equal.

*4. Usefulness in battle*

Kamui takes this. It can warp away people and Jutsu. Amaterasu slowly burns people and isn't effective for all Jutsu.

*5. Can Kamui be Used to Extinguish Amaterasu?*

No, it can't extinguish it but it can make sure that it's not a threat at all. It will still burn in the Kamui dimension, I believe.


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## JuicyG (Oct 25, 2014)

In terms of what is more haxx and useful in battle (The only things that matter), Kaumi obviously takes this. When seen the  pinnacle of Kaumi power with only a Double Mangekyo Sharingan Kakashi. I can only imagine if it were Double EMS Kakashi


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## Mercurial (Oct 25, 2014)

Amaterasu vs Kamui? Really? Part 1 Sakura vs 3 eyed Juudara would be a better match up... Kamui is faster. Better. More haxxed. Nearly uncounterable while the other has been countered in so many ways I forgot, and there are a lot of more other counters. Everything Amaterasu can do: Kamui can warp. That should be enough:

MS Kakashi's Kamui by Madara (chapter 659)

​
EMS Sasuke's Amaterasu by Madara (chapter 657)

​


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 25, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Pre 697 amaterasu is current amaterasu. People including me told you that shit would happen. Hell 2-3 weeks ago, I debated it. Quit acting like it was an asspull or something.



Amaterasu touched Naruto's flesh and Naruto shrouded himself and detached Amaterasu before it could start burning. Prior to this chapter, that wasn't a possibility I would consider.

Its not an asspull, but it is like Kishimoto settled on the lowest end feats of Amaterasu as its standart and throw the high end ones out of the window. Thats how I see it.




Raikiri19 said:


> Amaterasu vs Kamui? Really? Part 1 Sakura vs 3 eyed Juudara would be a better match up... Kamui is faster. Better. More haxxed. Nearly uncounterable while the other has been countered in so many ways I forgot, and there are a lot of more other counters. Everything Amaterasu can do: Kamui can warp. That should be enough:
> 
> MS Kakashi's Kamui by Madara (chapter 659)
> 
> ...



Thats because Kamui wasn't used offensively at all. 
If it had, then we'd see shinobi throwing out counters left and right. Becasue as far as I remember, Kamui hasn't been able to kill anyone.


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## Mercurial (Oct 25, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Thats because Kamui wasn't used offensively at all.
> If it had, then we'd see shinobi throwing out counters left and right. Becasue as far as I remember, Kamui hasn't been able to kill anyone.



Fanfiction. We didn't see anything else than top notch feats (that can be easily used in direct fighting, as for how high are Kakashi's reflexes, precision and quickness in using the jutsu) and we have a very very strong hype (hype by Madara, hype by Kakashi himself "I didn't think that could have been someone able to stop Kamui" when Kamui was stopped by someone that was believed to be Madara Uchiha and a Rinnegan wielder... when actually Kamui was stopped just by Kamui itself, hype by databook etc). And terrible argument, Evening Elephant didn't kill anyone. Indra's arrow didn't kill anyone. Bijuu Dama Rasenshuriken didn't kill anyone. Amaterasu... oh well. Offensive Kamui (if you want strictly offensive feats, no supporting or defense) could warp away a Gedo Mazo arm while he was summoned with S/T, in no time, with KCM Minato not being able to register what happened. Just think how big the Gedo's arm is, how much time is needed to summon something once Kuchiyose no jutsu has started, how high is KCM Minato's perception and his reflexes.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 25, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> Fanfiction



So you can't adress my point. Cool, you could have just said so, no need for a long ass reply lol.

Oh shit, did I just read that "Kakashi kamui'd Gedo's arm while it was summoned ?"


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## Mercurial (Oct 25, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> So you can't adress my point. Cool, you could have just said so, no need for a long ass reply lol.
> 
> Oh shit, did I just read that "Kakashi kamui'd Gedo's arm while it was summoned ?"



If you think so, then be my guest. You can don't have to downplay Kamui and desperately try to give a good image of Amaterasu just because you are an Itachi fan. That's the thing other people in this forum do with other characters, as an Itachi fan I think that we shouldn't go on that level, but if you want, be my guest. Manga panels are available to everyone, and if nearly everyone says than Kamui >>> Amaterasu. Not accounting the other Kamui powers (teleporting, phasing, shooting warped things) or DMS/Rikudo version obviously. Amaterasu it's at best comparable to early Shippuden Kakashi's Kamui, and when it was used without any charge to warp away a forest-sized explosion... not, not even.

It depends on how well you can or cannot read, so I don't know.


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 25, 2014)

Stop wanking, Grimmjow.

There's absolutely no level of logic that would warrant a high-speed powerful Katon > Kamui on any level.
1. People have tanked it
2. People have brushed it off
3. People have dodged it
4. People have absorbed it
5. People have sensed it before initiation

It's weak, a one-trick pony technique that warrants no versatility beyond interacting with combustion at a relatively unimpressive rate (Karin survived it, Sasuke survived it, Naruto survived it, Raikage was barely fazed by it). 

No elemental technique is superior to Kamui at it's greatest potential, there's a small list of techniques that are superior to it at both versions of half power.


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## RedChidori (Oct 25, 2014)

Bonly said:


> 1) Casting time/speed
> 
> Depends on the user. We've seen ranged Kamui from being slow and taking pages to get Deidara to sucking up a clone so fast that Obito thought he destroyed. Then with the Kamui Obito usually uses it's based on ones own reaction which means one could potentially dodge attacks from speed demons like A or Minato for example or still get their shit wrecked by said people. So again it depends on the user so I'd say equal here.
> 
> ...



This .


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## IchLiebe (Oct 25, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Amaterasu touched Naruto's flesh and Naruto shrouded himself and detached Amaterasu before it could start burning. Prior to this chapter, that wasn't a possibility I would consider.
> 
> Its not an asspull, but it is like Kishimoto settled on the lowest end feats of Amaterasu as its standart and throw the high end ones out of the window. Thats how I see it.



Why not? People purposed it and it had sound logic behind it. There was no reason it wouldn't have worked the way it worked in the manga. And I'm happy Kishi finally showed everyone so the debate on it would stop.

What high end ones? Itachi's one where the fire toad stomach, that's the only one.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 25, 2014)

Invictus-Kun said:


> 1. Casting time/ Speed



Amaterasu hit Obito before he could faze out, even though he saw Sasuke's eye bleeding and recognized the Jutsu. So Amaterasu should be a bit faster, although it should also depend on their respective users' natural reaction time.

It's also worth considering that Kamui's speed doubles when the user has both eyes; it's impossible to say whether that would make it fast enough to beat Amaterasu to the punch, but it's worth considering.



> 2. Chakra being consumed



Hard to say; their respective users have different chakra capacities. Kakashi, Sasuke, and Itachi are all fairly similar in terms of stamina, yet Kamui seems to have a more severe effect on Kakashi than Amaterasu has on either of the brothers. Kamui might require more chakra, or at least impose a harsher strain on the user for the same cost. Granted, Kakashi is not an Uchiha and suffers a magnified strain as a result of that, so it could be that Kamui really isn't any harder to use for its natural user.



> 3. AOE



Amaterasu can spread over a Bijuu or an entire forested area big enough to encompass the Uchiha Hideout and its surrounding satellite structures; Kamui at best has only warped away a Bijuu (using the Kyuubi's chakra) and the arm of the Gedo Mazo. This one's not even up for debate.



> 4. Usefullness in battle



Amaterasu kinda only does one thing. Kamui does several things (depending on which eye is using it) and it can serve several different purposes (transportation, capture, evasion, etc.).



> Can Kamui be Used to Extinguish Amaterasu?



No.

Kakashi's Kamui can warp away an area affected by Amaterasu; Obito's Kamui can allow him to faze through it if activated in advance. But in either case, all Kamui can do is move either the flames or their potential target to a different plane.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 25, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Stop wanking, Grimmjow.
> 
> There's absolutely no level of logic that would warrant a high-speed powerful Katon > Kamui on any level.
> 1. People have tanked it
> ...



Kamui retained the godlike status only because it wasn't used offensively as much as Amaterasu was. The only times it was used offensively, it failed to do the job(deidara / gedo).

If it was used offensively more often, it would fail more. Thats all I'm saying.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 25, 2014)

It wasn't used offensively because it wouldn't have failed and Kishi can't have Kakashi solo'ing people.


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## Itachі (Oct 25, 2014)

@Grimm

Techniques like that have a tendency to fail, they are just.. boring. Katon never does anything either, it's pretty much a clearing technique. Same goes for Suiton, in most cases.



IchLiebe said:


> It wasn't used offensively because it wouldn't have failed and Kishi can't have Kakashi solo'ing people.



Kishi already did Kakashi a huge favour by letting him retain his eyesight for so long, he should have lost it ages ago.


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## Bkprince33 (Oct 25, 2014)

overall amatarasu is the stronger and more lethal technique imo, but kamui is more defensive, more practical and more useful by a large margin imo.


amatarasu can down biju, and large targets, and also has the ability to kill non speedster targets.

while kamui can't really kill large targets it can teleport you to saftey, allows you to do feints and allows you to keep up wit speedsters it can also one shot most of the smaller targets that amatarasu can


this is kind of a bad comparison tho as kakashi kamui and obito kamui is very different, a better comparison would be tsukiyomi and amatarasu vs both kamuis, or enton and amatarasu vs both kamui's


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## Mercurial (Oct 25, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Amaterasu hit Obito before he could faze out, even though he saw Sasuke's eye bleeding and recognized the Jutsu. So Amaterasu should be a bit faster, although it should also depend on their respective users' natural reaction time.



Obito was surprised in a non fighting situation. This is the man that thanks to Kamui phasing can multitask against Kakashi, Gai and Naruto.

Kakashi executes long range Kamui a lot faster than Itachi or Sasuke do with Amaterasu. Kakashi could warp the Amaterasu flames or just warp Itachi or Sasuke's head attacking them with Kamui before they manage to use Amaterasu. Kakashi also knows Amaterasu ("those black flames... so that's Amaterasu" (*1*)) while Itachi doesn't know shit about Kamui (he only knows that someway Kakashi developed a Mangekyo) neither does Sasuke until War Arc (he just knows that Kakashi someway erased his Susanoo arrows). Kamui also works faster than Amaterasu to begin with in any case, since it isn't preceded by the eye crying blood like Amaterasu always is, and since the space-time barrier directly appears on the objective (), while the black flames travel towards it, albeit quickly () (this is clearly showed when Sasuke partially dodged Itachi's Amaterasu with the flames following him behind and especially when Ei dodged Sasuke's Amaterasu and the flames travelled past his previous location hitting the samurai that was behind Ei himself (*4*), showing as they didn't appear on him but travelled towards him). The funniest thing is that if you are hit with Kamui, you lose, because your body gets imprisoned in the other dimension that only Kamui users can enter or leave, or a vital part of your body gets warped away and you die because of the wound; if you are hit with Amaterasu, you still can save youself by removing the flames, sealing them, remove the wounded part and regenerate and so on.

Kakashi has the faster jutsu, uses it faster and has faster reactions (could time his Kamui warp fast enough that Obito wasn't able to notice (*5*), could react to a sudden threat on par with Minato (*6*)(*7*), reacts to a sudden attack from a Juubi jinchuriki activating and using Kamui (*8*) when for example Gaara's automatic sand defense couldn't even activate in time to stop Minato's body hitting poor Gaara *).

* Probably that's where the in-famous "Gaara dies in the crossfire" is born 

With a non perfected Kamui, as at the time he couldn't perfectly control the size and the position of the space-time barrier for his own admission (*9*), Kakashi could have an Akatsuki like Deidara as his bitch (*10*)(*11*), warp away Deidara's fast and giant explosion in a second (*12*) and then was sure he could have defeated another one like Kakuzu (he said that if Naruto and the others didn't come, he would have used Mangekyo to defend from Kakuzu's attack and defeat him, then having to go to the hospital for some rest because of all the chakra spent (*13*)). He didn't use Kamui previously against Hidan and Kakuzu or later against Pain because he didn't need that, he was in control of the battle and fending off or cornering the enemy, so no need to ruin his eyesight by using the Mangekyo. Some time after, Kakashi was even willing to fight Tobi, believed as the legendary Madara Uchiha, with Kamui. 

Amaterasu vs Kamui (actually only long range Kamui... so only a part of full Kamui's power lol) well... part 1 Sakura vs 3 eyed Juudara would be a better match up. Kamui is faster. More useful. More haxxed. Nearly uncounterable while the other has been countered in so many ways I forgot, and there are a lot of more other possible counters. Everything Amaterasu can do: Kamui can warp. That should be enough (as I said don't forget that we are talking only about long range Kamui vs Amaterasu; there's phasing Kamui, teleporting Kamui etc so... Kamui as a whole is like thousand times more powerful than Amaterasu; just compare the performance of Dual Mangekyo Sharingan Rikudo Kakashi with all the Kamui powers and Rinnegan Rikudo Sasuke with Amaterasu and Enton powers against Kaguya... Kakashi outperformed his old discipule so much it isn't even funny):

MS Kakashi's Kamui by Madara (chapter 659)



EMS Sasuke's Amaterasu by Madara (chapter 657)
​
Some mastered Kamui execution feats (as the 4th databook confirms that Kakashi mastered Kamui by the time of the 4th World War; hence he gained even the ability to teleport himself *()*):

- Kakashi can canonically warp a human body part (an head sized object) in the same time Obito needs to make it intangible and of a movement of 5 cm from KCM Naruto rushing to attack Obito *(15)**(16)*
- Kakashi warps away two Susanoo arrows when both are already at half their way and his Sharingan was still the 3T one *(17)**(18)*
- Kakashi warps away Minato's Rasengan countered by Juudara really in no time *(19)*, Minato's arm kicked from Madara was hella fast if we think that Minato's body (obviously heavier and so less fast of the arm) went on Gaara so fast that his auto-defense couldn't activate in time *(20)*; it also was a completely surprise attack that suddenly come out from Gaara's sand wall that blocked Kakashi's LoS *(21)*.
- Kakashi warps away a giant arm of the Gedo Mazo while Madara is already summoning it away with instant space-time summoning jutsu *(22)* (Minato couldn't do anything in that situation than ask Kakashi taking care of it, Minato of all people couldn't even perceived what happened when Kakashi used Kamui on the Gedo Mazo, and had to ask him if he managed to kill it in time). Madara praised the feat and Kakashi's worthy as a doujutsu user.
- Kakashi feints to warp Naruto's Rasengan and then insta-warps away his body before Obito's Kamui propelled stakes could hit him even with a point blank shot (before Kamui shooted stake that was hitting BM Naruto could move for more than a couple of cm), managing to make Obito think that Kakashi missed and he succesfully hit the clone *(23)**(24)**(25)* when actually Kakashi changed his warp from Naruto's Rasengan to his entire body, warping it with such speed and timing that Obito (with full knowledge *(26)* and top tier reactions boosted by Mangekyo and Rinnegan eyes) couldn't notice or perceive it. That was when Kakashi was moving fast *(27)**(28)* and wasn't that close to the objective *(29)*.
- Kakashi with a Kurama chakra supply (that was said to have increased 3x the power of his jutsu) could warp the Hachibi in the Kamui dimension and then re-warp it in the real world, and then finished all the chakra *(30)**(31)**(32)*. Taking on account that Kakashi used also some chakra right before to travel between the Kamui world and the real world, I'd say it is pretty much clear that without any chakra supply he can warp a mass that is slightly bigger than 1/3 of the Hachibi (so also Kamui GG his head or any Bijuu's head with relative ease, with the fast execution shown against the Gedo Mazo... or things like a V4 Susanoo from Itachi).

So Kakashi can Kamui away human head sized objects in a more or less instant time and even with fast moving objects/people and unpredictable situations. And he can Kamui away human body sized objects in also nearly istant times, and even giant objects, faster than people like Rinnegan + MS Obito or Edo Minato can perceive. Thanks to the Kurama's chakra supply from Naruto, Kakashi's long range Kamui was depicted as a dangerous threat for even the Juubi. Just read what is said from databook about Kakashi's Kamui *()* (and that was when it wasn't perfected yet... it was also stated in the 3rd databook that Shippuden Kakashi was still growing in power and has to completely master his Mangekyo Sharingan *()* which is what he reached in the time of War Arc as stated by Obito and by the 4th databook) *()**()* and what Kakashi says after having faced the Rinnegan (knowing all its powers as he created counters to them together with Gai *(37)**(38)*) and being against one believed to be Uchiha Madara and not only that but also wielding the Rinnegan:he doesn't even consider that the Rinnegan wielder he is fighting could have used Preta Path to absorb Kamui or Shinra Tensei to repel it, even knowing very well those powers, he states that it was impossible that Kamui could be stopped *()*. Kakashi's Kamui warped away even Juubi's jinchuriki Madara's Onmyoton Release that nullifies all not senjutsu and not Rikudo enhanced ninjutsu *(40)**(41)*. Not even going with DMS Rikudo Kakashi that can use Kamui so fast that it outspeeds Kaguya's S/T *()**()* that blitzed Rinnegan Rikudo Sasuke *(44)**(45)* and nearly blitzed Rikudo Senjutsu Naruto, both able to casually react to Juubi Madara's Rinbo, but even if that's a wonderful feat it's not that version of Kakashi in the thread. Kamui allows War Arc 1 MS Kakashi to defend from almost all attacks (thanks to his fast reflexes and mastery of the space-time barrier, and also increased chakra capabilities) and especially to have an uncounterable offensive: Kamui GG > your favourite character, by feats, and even by hype and portrayal, anyway.

Out of the long range Kamui usage, Kakashi also showed that he can warp off from the Kamui dimension the things that he warps in, shooting them out as Obito does *(46)**(47)*, so he can for example warp away a Bijuu Dama or a Jinton, and then re-warp quickly it and surprise the opponent with his own attack. Kakashi can also warp himself with the ability of teleport anywhere he wants, gaining a really useful ability for surprise attacks and for support purposes *()**(49)**(50)*; for example, he can go to the other dimension, focus his chakra, and then use a giant-size Kamui with ease. Or simply have rest and then perform surprise attacks on his opponent.

On the other note. Fucking Edo fucking Itachi's casting of Amaterasu is slower than Killer Bee fucking throwing a fucking sword (*51*) that is something dodged with ease by fucking Fuu in base without Bijuu chakra (she had Rinnegan amped field of vision and Sharingan precognition but the attack was from the back so she could only see it with Rinnegan but not preempt it with Sharingan (*52*)); and that's after Itachi already prepped Amaterasu and had his eye cry blood. Nagato could sense Itachi charging Amaterasu (no one in the manga sensed Kakashi using long range Kamui... Pain with the Rinnegan could see chakra, he didn't see Kakashi activating Mangekyo, hence charging chakra in his eye, and using Kamui; because Kakashi's execution is too sudden and fast, after he mastered the jutsu he doesn't need to charge anything; Minato and Rinnegan Obito couldn't perceive Kakashi's fastest usage of the long range Kamui) and before it was launched, even after the eye already cried blood, Bee could launch a sword that would have reached Itachi before the Amaterasu flames even started. 

As showed, base Killer B can react and throw a sword before Itachi can complete an already started Amaterasu. Hachibi reacted to Amaterasu and physically moved before the flames reached him (*53*)(*54*), and the Hachibi is not like a speedster, lol. Hebi Sasuke reacted to Amaterasu and outspeeded it for some time (*56*)(*57*)(*58*). Full speed Ei reacted to Amaterasu and dodged it with ease and it's not like Amaterasu seemed that fast (*59*)(*60*). Basically everyone and their mother who aren't fodder can react to Amaterasu, most can counter it. Kishimoto made clear which is the best jutsu, when he made Amaterasu countered or shitted on by everyone he had it used on, when he didn't even let Kakashi use Kamui because otherwise it would have been too much an easy win, and instead hyped the jutsu and his skillful usage everytime with great feats and statement. Not to mention that as said long range Kamui is only a power from the many granted from complete Kamui.

Well I don't think I need to say anything else. Feats show clearly how Kamui shits so much on Amaterasu that Itachi trolling Orochimaru is nothing in comparison.


​


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## IchLiebe (Oct 25, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Kishi already did Kakashi a huge favour by letting him retain his eyesight for so long, he should have lost it ages ago.



How so? Look at Sasuke. Two MS jutsu in the Bee fight (one genjutsu and ama). The he used another MS genjutsu on C, Susanno sustained for a long period against Ei. The Amaterasu against Ei and then again at Gaara. Enton on susanoo. Then he used susanoo against the kages. So we're at 8 ms jutsu's right there. Now my memory's fuzzy on the Danzo fight so correct me if I'm wrong. Amaterasu once, susanoo for close to 10 minutes. That's all I remember so I'll leave it there. Then he used susanoo again against Kakashi. And his vision still wasn't out after 11 MS uses and a couple of those was using susanoo for long periods of time.

Kakashi used kamui 2x against Deidara. Then 2x against Pain. Then once against Sasuke. So at the war arc, that's 5 times. He used it 6/7 times against Obito. Then once on Gedo Mazo. Then once on Obito. That's 13/14 and he didn't keep it up for 10 minutes like Sasuke did susanoo. So it's perfectly reasonable.


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## Altair21 (Oct 25, 2014)

1. Seems equal
2. No way to tell really. I'll just speculate and say they both take a similar amount of chakra.
3. Amaterasu. Kamui isn't really an AoE type of attack. Amaterasu on the other hand can have a small AoE if a minimal amount of chakra is put into it or a large AoE if a large amount of chakra is put into it.
4. Easily Kamui. Amaterasu hasn't really been useful since the kage summit arc.

As for the last question, no it can't extinguish amaterasu. It can send it away to the kamui dimension but that wouldn't extinguish the flames.


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## Itachі (Oct 25, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> How so? Look at Sasuke. Two MS jutsu in the Bee fight (one genjutsu and ama). The he used another MS genjutsu on C, Susanno sustained for a long period against Ei. The Amaterasu against Ei and then again at Gaara. Enton on susanoo. Then he used susanoo against the kages. So we're at 8 ms jutsu's right there. Now my memory's fuzzy on the Danzo fight so correct me if I'm wrong. Amaterasu once, susanoo for close to 10 minutes. That's all I remember so I'll leave it there. Then he used susanoo again against Kakashi. And his vision still wasn't out after 11 MS uses and a couple of those was using susanoo for long periods of time.
> 
> Kakashi used kamui 2x against Deidara. Then 2x against Pain. Then once against Sasuke. So at the war arc, that's 5 times. He used it 6/7 times against Obito. Then once on Gedo Mazo. Then once on Obito. That's 13/14 and he didn't keep it up for 10 minutes like Sasuke did susanoo. So it's perfectly reasonable.



You're right but when Sasuke used it he felt side effects, his vision went very blurry and he could barely see anything. Kakashi felt side effects too but they were generally short and didn't have much of an effect on him. Also, how did you arrive at the conclusion that he used Susano'o for 10 minutes?

Kakashi's usage of Kamui at the start was very frugal before the War arc so it makes sense for nothing really to happen to him. Kamui just seems more taxing since it's not just burning something or manifesting something, it's transporting one thing to another dimension. From Obito's words in the Kaguya fight, we know that some dimensions take a lot more Chakra than other dimensions so we can assume that transporting something to a different dimension is quite taxing anyway. That is quite a comparison that's very scaled down though.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 25, 2014)

Danzo had 10 eyes and Izanagi lasts 1 minute for each eye.

Kaguya's dimensions were farther than Kamui dimension was. Therefor it took more chakra to reach them.


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## Itachі (Oct 25, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Danzo had 10 eyes and Izanagi lasts 1 minute for each eye.
> 
> Kaguya's dimensions were farther than Kamui dimension was. Therefor it took more chakra to reach them.



Ah, okay.

Obito did say Kaguya's dimension took more Chakra to go to because it was farther, from that we can assume that Kamui takes more Chakra because it also moves things to a different dimension. Obviously it's not on the scale of Kaguya's dimension but it does take more Chakra to transport something to one dimension than to simply manifest something in the same dimension, in most cases.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 25, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> It wasn't used offensively because it wouldn't have failed and Kishi can't have Kakashi solo'ing people.



Plot wouldn't allow it, so it would fail.
Thats the whole point.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 25, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Ah, okay.
> 
> Obito did say Kaguya's dimension took more Chakra to go to because it was farther, from that we can assume that Kamui takes more Chakra because it also moves things to a different dimension. Obviously it's not on the scale of Kaguya's dimension but it does take more Chakra to transport something to one dimension than to simply manifest something in the same dimension, in most cases.



I'm not debating which one takes more chakra. Kamui takes more IMO, I'm arguing Kakashi's lack of blindness which makes perfect sense.


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## Itachі (Oct 25, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> I'm not debating which one takes more chakra. Kamui takes more IMO, I'm arguing Kakashi's lack of blindness which makes perfect sense.



Yeah, but I'm trying to say that because it takes more Chakra it's a technique that's more powerful and should strain the users eyes more.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 25, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Plot wouldn't allow it, so it would fail.
> Thats the whole point.



How? If it would've failed then it would've been allowed as it wouldn't have broke the story. It not being used shows that if used, it wouldn't have been countered or Kishi would've shown it being countered.


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## Invictus-Kun (Oct 25, 2014)

Gosh my Boy Kakashi is really Cool, if only Kiski made those eyes permanent, he would be top tier.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 25, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Yeah, but I'm trying to say that because it takes more Chakra it's a technique that's more powerful and should strain the users eyes more.



Strain=/=blindness. MS uses determine blindness. Susanoo caused Sasuke's entire body to be in pain and it didn't show any signs of causing blindness quicker (although using it constantly obviously took away sight).


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## Dazdarovski (Sep 7, 2018)

But if   someone casts amaterasu and someone with kamui drain amaterasu in kamui dimension can he eject amaterasu back at his opponent if he can this canbe prety OP and kamui is stronger bcz this is usefful in deffensive and offansive way but amaterasu is only offanse and cant even damage opponent who phase throught hard objects using right eye to transport him in kamui dimension and make him untouchable


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