# Darth Plagueis vs Revan



## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 27, 2014)

Scenario 1: Darth Revan

Scenario 2: End of Jedi Civil War Revan

Scenario 3: Novel Revan

Because why the fuck not?

Make the battle field Raxus Prime,  because a giant trash heap is all sorts of fun for a battlefield.


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## TehChron (Mar 27, 2014)

Heres the most important question:

How do we scale Plagueis relative to, say, Palpatine and which versions of him?


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 27, 2014)

TehChron said:


> Heres the most important question:
> 
> How do we scale Plagueis relative to, say, Palpatine and which versions of him?



IIRC, he was powerful enough to make Phantom Menace Sidious wary of him.

Don't think it was until RotS quotes about him being the most powerful Sith Lord ever started cropping up though.


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## TehChron (Mar 27, 2014)

Well, it's not like the Order of the Sith during that time were unaware of just how powerful Vitiate had been. That's a pretty bold claim.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 27, 2014)

TehChron said:


> Well, it's not like the Order of the Sith during that time were unaware of just how powerful Vitiate had been. That's a pretty bold claim.



True, though still, about 12 years separate PM Sidious and RotS Sidious.

That incarnation of Sidious is hardly comparable to the one that fought Yoda.

Can't really give Plagueis that level of credit.

 are some the quotes anyway.



			
				New Essentials Chronology said:
			
		

> Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.



That's the only one that really stood out as being supportable as nothing else but Sidious being on top.  The rest were either worthless character narrative opinions that have no real basis for making the claims, or context suggests they could be referring to something else.


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## TehChron (Mar 27, 2014)

Ah, sorry, thought you were saying that _Plagueis_ had been claimed to be as such.

But if RotS Sidious and DP Sidious aren't even comparable then yeah.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 27, 2014)

Sorry about that, I tend to poorly structure my posts


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## TehChron (Mar 27, 2014)

This brings up the same problem, though.

Lets establish a baseline. We know Bane's pretty far up there, so how does he compare in those three scenarios? We know Plagueis falls somewhere in between Bane and Sidious on that scale.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 27, 2014)

TehChron said:


> This brings up the same problem, though.
> 
> Lets establish a baseline. We know Bane's pretty far up there, so how does he compare in those three scenarios? We know Plagueis falls somewhere in between Bane and Sidious on that scale.



Bane's low high tier himself.

After that, given most of the rule of two powerscales from Bane's feats?

We have the same issues we typically do when trying to discuss YYH high/top tiers.

We don't know how far above Bane the fuckers are.  I don't know enough about the Prequel era to really guess at where PM Sidious stands either.  It wouldn't surprise me to know he's above the likes of Thon for example, but I have no clue as to what determines that.


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## TedMk2 (Mar 27, 2014)

I doubt Bane could beat Revan in any of those scenarios, outside maybe a straight lightsaber duel.
The most powerful force weapon used during Bane's era was used by Kaan to end the Battle of Ruusan, and was taught by Bane to Kaan after he learned of it from Revan's own holocron. Needless to say, that era of Sith Lords was incredibly watered down, Bane even noted that himself and set out to establish the Rule of Two to redress the problem. So I don't think comparing Bane to either of them would do much good, since he should be a fair bit weaker than either of them.


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## TehChron (Mar 27, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Bane's low high tier himself.
> 
> After that, given most of the rule of two powerscales from Bane's feats?
> 
> ...



So if we cant hash out hard stats (outside if Revan Reborn probably being able to win through superior stats), then chances are it comes down to the esoteric abilities each possess?

iirc Plagueis has some pretty good dueling feats, so its not like he'd get murked in melee by Revan. What does Sidious' teacher bring to the table?


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 27, 2014)

TehChron said:


> So if we cant hash out hard stats (outside if Revan Reborn probably being able to win through superior stats), then chances are it comes down to the esoteric abilities each possess?
> 
> iirc Plagueis has some pretty good dueling feats, so its not like he'd get murked in melee by Revan. What does Sidious' teacher bring to the table?



Haven't finished the novel yet, though I don't need to luckily, given TF has a  for the fucker.



TedMk2 said:


> I doubt Bane could beat Revan in any of those scenarios, outside maybe a straight lightsaber duel.
> The most powerful force weapon used during Bane's era was used by Kaan to end the Battle of Ruusan, and was taught by Bane to Kaan after he learned of it from Revan's own holocron. Needless to say, that era of Sith Lords was incredibly watered down, Bane even noted that himself and set out to establish the Rule of Two to redress the problem. So I don't think comparing Bane to either of them would do much good, since he should be a fair bit weaker than either of them.



To be fair, they did more or less raze Ruusan through the combined power of 27 odd Sith Lords.

Bane still sits nicely on some potent DC from that (given he was the strongest that contributed any energy to the Force Storm)

Still not enough for powerscaling Plagueis though, true.

Assuming of course that better powerscaling doesn't exist that I'm not privy to anyway.


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## trance (Mar 28, 2014)

Well, Plagueis is probably above Phantom Menace Sidious since Sidious was not confident in his ability to strike him down in open combat. However, Sidious' power level at the time is pretty unknown aside from being far above Maul (which is still hardly impressive in the long run). In terms of DC, Plagueis doesn't really have much since he focused more on mastering his midi-chlorian manipulation ability and using his lightsaber, where he was a skilled duelist.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 28, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Well, Plagueis is probably above Phantom Menace Sidious since Sidious was not confident in his ability to strike him down in open combat. However, Sidious' power level at the time is pretty unknown aside from being far above Maul (which is still hardly impressive in the long run). In terms of DC, Plagueis doesn't really have much since he focused more on mastering his midi-chlorian manipulation ability and using his lightsaber, where he was a skilled duelist.



He's a proper successor to the Rule of Two, so he at least powerscales from Bane raw power wise.

He also has passively  and apparently atomized 12 humanoid opponents or some shit.

So he's not hurting for feats even without powerscaling really.


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## trance (Mar 28, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> He's a proper successor to the Rule of Two, so he at least powerscales from Bane raw power wise.



Yea, considering Bane's whole philosophy (based off Revan's view) with two Sith, that makes sense.



> He also has passively  and apparently atomized 12 humanoid opponents or some shit.



Been awhile since I read the novel. Don't remember these feats. Then again, I only really paid attention to the story, not what kinda DC he had. 



> So he's not hurting for feats even without powerscaling really.



But is that enough top end of JCW Revan or Revan at his peak? 

I'm not all that familiar with the Old Republic era.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 28, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Yea, considering Bane's whole philosophy (based off Revan's view) with two Sith, that makes sense.



Indeed

Though you have some asshats that try abusing the Rule of Two to mean they can powerscale from any previous Sith, whether they're part of it or not.



> Been awhile since I read the novel. Don't remember these feats. Then again, I only really paid attention to the story, not what kinda DC he had.



I only saw that particular line because Fang pointed it out previously in a blog.  Screen capped it before I could forget.



> But is that enough top end of JCW Revan or Revan at his peak?



Raw powerwise?  Not particularly.


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## Palpatine (Mar 30, 2014)

Isn't Plagueis considered one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever? It's been a while since I read the book, but I recall him having some pretty crazy feats.  

My knowledge of Revan is limited to the Old Republic games.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 30, 2014)

Palpatine said:


> Isn't Plagueis considered one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever? It's been a while since I read the book, but I recall him having some pretty crazy feats.
> 
> My knowledge of Revan is limited to the Old Republic games.



Sure, your point?

Revan's hardly lacking, and featwise?

The Old Republic era tends to shit on the movie era.

Sidious and other fuckers are just lucky enough to have statements that warrant giving them decent powerscaling 

It's not until Dark Empire that you have anything remotely as impressive featwise as KOTOR era shit.

 is Plagueis' best feat.   is the best powerscaling he warrants to my knowledge sans said feat.

This is  power.   is what Nihilus is superior to, and what Darth Revan is superior to by proxy.   is a bit feat from Revan after 300 years of being constantly drained by Vitiate and simultaneously resisting his mental probing for tearing information from his mind (like the fact that Revan never gave up the location of the foundry).  Novel Revan?  He's not losing.  Jedi Civil War?  I'd call that a toss up.  I wouldn't know about Darth, but raw power leans Revan's way.


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## Palpatine (Mar 30, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Sure, your point?
> 
> Revan's hardly lacking, and featwise?
> 
> ...



Oh, I'm not saying Revan's lacking by any means. I just needed a reminder on some of his feats.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 30, 2014)

Palpatine said:


> Oh, I'm not saying Revan's lacking by any means. I just needed a reminder on some of his feats.



No problem 

Always happy to help.

After all, half my fun around here comes from scrutinizing feats


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## Ramius (Mar 30, 2014)

Here's something that might or might not prove useful
Scroll down to



> Who’s stronger – Darth Bane, Darth Revan or Darth Vader?
> 
> It’s a tie. Seriously, I can’t answer this. First, it’s not really up to me to make that kind of call. Second, it really depends on the situation. You can probably find rule books for various Star Wars role-playing games that will give you stats allowing you to compare relative strength. But from an artistic and dramatic standpoint, this kind of question has no “right” answer. Each character has strengths and weaknesses, and they grow and change as their stories progress. On any given day, at any given time, under any given circumstance anyone can win or lose. That’s what dramatic conflict is all about.



This would more or less imply that Bane and Revan are equal (given it comes from the author of both novels himself it's a reliable source). Is this the quote that supposedly confirmed that Bane and Revan are equal? Not too solid. My point is - if we're taking this statement into account, that would make Bane and Revan more or less equal and following the Rule of Two route, Plageius would come as stronger than Revan. Just my 2 cents.

Something unrelated, but interesting -  The author is pretty bro
Another unrelated, but interesting bit that might shut the EU-a-fanfiction morons



> I want to write for Star Wars. Can you help me?
> 
> No. Let me brutally honest: Star Wars is the biggest game in town; they have authors banging down their doors to work with them. I had to publish two novels and write the 2003 game of the year before the Star Wars people would even talk to me, so unless you’re an established sci-fi author with numerous novels to your credit they don’t want to hear from you. If you are a well established author, then you don’t need my help – contact them yourself.


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## TedMk2 (Mar 30, 2014)

Ramius said:


> Here's something that might or might not prove useful
> Scroll down to
> 
> 
> ...


That quote kinda weirds me out. If we go on the premise of the Rule of Two, surely Vader must be far more powerful than Bane, no? Unless we're talking about OT Vader after he'd been severely nerfed, but even then it seems a bit odd. It sounds more like Karpyshyn is just being diplomatic, tbh, and as he says "it?s not really up to me to make that kind of call".
It's an interesting point though. Nice find.


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## Ramius (Mar 30, 2014)

TedMk2 said:


> That quote kinda weirds me out. If we go on the premise of the Rule of Two, surely Vader must be far more powerful than Bane, no?



Hardly. The problem with Vader was that Sidious was a dick. He violated the Rule of Two. Some would say that's what brought forth the big loss the Siths suffered. 

He didn't seek to maximize his apprentice's potential. Remember how he uses Dooku and lets Dooku use Maul and when Vader started ageing, he looked for Luke.

Makes the whole powerscaling for Vader weird. I'm not the most knowledgeable on the subject, but that's how I look at it.


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## TedMk2 (Mar 30, 2014)

Ramius said:


> Hardly. The problem with Vader was that Sidious was a dick. He violated the Rule of Two. Some would say that's what brought forth the big loss the Siths suffered.
> 
> He didn't seek to maximize his apprentice's potential. Remember how he uses Dooku and lets Dooku use Maul and when Vader started ageing, he looked for Luke.
> 
> Makes the whole powerscaling for Vader weird. I'm not the most knowledgeable on the subject, but that's how I look at it.


Hmm...be that as it may, Vader had enough potential to surpass Sidious, even if he never quite reached it. Anakin himself was created indirectly by the combined efforts of Plagueis and Sidious; even if you can't really compare his own raw power to that of the power exerted from the two Sith Lords, the implications of him being formed from the backlash of the potency of the last great Sith of the Rule of Two say a lot as is. Though that may be stretching the point a bit.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 30, 2014)

"It's a tie" my ass.  The fucker even said he's not allowed to answer that kind of question.

He's saying that to stay impartial and not step on any toes of those that keep canon.


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## Ramius (Mar 30, 2014)

TedMk2 said:


> Hmm...be that as it may, Vader had enough potential to surpass Sidious, even if he never quite reached it. Anakin himself was created indirectly by the combined efforts of Plagueis and Sidious; even if you can't really compare his own raw power to that of the power exerted from the two Sith Lords, the implications of him being formed from the backlash of the potency of the last great Sith of the Rule of Two say a lot as is. Though that may be stretching the point a bit.



The problem is that he had enough potential, but didn't reach it - exactly that. Generally speaking, plenty people have the potential to become strong out of nowhere in SW. Zannah was picked as a kid, pretty much randomly, by Bane and she surpassed him in the end. Bane was a miner and wasn't thought to have too huge of a potential in the beginning (no, he had potential of course, but greater than what they predicted), but he worked really hard and surpassed any of his superior's expectations.



ChaosTheory123 said:


> "It's a tie" my ass.  The fucker even said he's not allowed to answer that kind of question.
> 
> He's saying that to stay impartial and not step on any toes of those that keep canon.



That's why I'm saying it's "not too solid" and it's an "if", because I'm not really that sold either. What I'm sure of is that Bane learned almost everything Revan had to share and didn't encounter any difficulty in mastering all of that (or the majority). We just know that either of them can kill each other under certain situations. Don't know about what kind of situations, but unless Revan totally doesn't use his precog and forcefields, then I don't see why Bane's power wouldn't rival Revan's. 

The Force Storm ritual is pretty comparable to some versions of Revan though, given there's low ends here and there (most obvious being the assumption every Sith contributed _equally_). Not saying we can do it anyhow differently, but he contributed more than other still. Plus Bane has learned transfer essence (something Revan never mastered) and some stuff from Andeddu and Freedon (which admittedly, mean nothing but some extra-knowledge from Siths weaker than Revan, but still worth mentioning).

Off-topic, but an amusing statement:

*Spoiler*: __ 





> Sorry, but an author's word has absolutely 0 impact in the Star Wars canon. The only people who's word matters is George Lucas and Leland Chee. Drew wants those characters to beat Vader, but canon says that he would wipe them both while eating a sandwich. That's not specifically stated, but going by canon and measuring Vaders power to Revan and Bane, we find that Vader would crush them.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...



Hehehehe


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## Velocity (Mar 30, 2014)

Ramius said:


> Hardly. The problem with Vader was that Sidious was a dick. He violated the Rule of Two. Some would say that's what brought forth the big loss the Siths suffered.
> 
> He didn't seek to maximize his apprentice's potential. Remember how he uses Dooku and lets Dooku use Maul and when Vader started ageing, he looked for Luke.
> 
> Makes the whole powerscaling for Vader weird. I'm not the most knowledgeable on the subject, but that's how I look at it.



When it comes to the way he treated his apprentices, I don't think Palpatine was a dick at all - from what I understand he was the most powerful Sith to have ever lived and all of his apprentices were jokes in comparison to him. Since his plan had always been to achieve immortality and rule his Galactic Empire until the end of time, any apprentices he took were merely tools to advance his goals. None of them could ever have actually defeated him, let alone prove themselves worthy of succeeding him... So why bother helping them achieve their potential? Might as well just use them and dump them when someone better comes along.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 30, 2014)

Ramius said:


> That's why I'm saying it's "not too solid"



Not too solid is somewhat of an understatement dude 

Maybe had it been limited to speculation of Bane vs Revan, but Vader was thrown into the mix and we know for sure he has no authority there.

He has authority to clarify shit that happens in his novels, that's about it.  That's the work that was approved to be sold as Star Wars EU canon.



> What I'm sure of is that Bane learned almost everything Revan had to share and didn't encounter any difficulty in mastering all of that (or the majority).



Having the knowledge and skills doesn't equal having similar raw power.  Outside of maybe Darth Revan (and featwise, even that incarnation has better powerscaling), Bane sorely lacks in comparison there.



> We just know that either of them can kill each other under certain situations.



That goes without saying in Star Wars.  It's not like they have a constant amp on their durability.  It's not Dragon Ball, they need to have techniques like Force Armor/Shield and Tutaminis in use to tank powerful shit.



> Don't know about what kind of situations, but unless Revan totally doesn't use his precog and forcefields, then I don't see why Bane's power wouldn't rival Revan's.



Aside from the fact his feats, especially the Novel fight vs Vitiate, trumps just about everything any Banite Sith prior to Sidious could feasibly accomplish in terms of raw power?



> The Force Storm ritual is pretty comparable to some versions of Revan though, given there's low ends here and there (most obvious being the assumption every Sith contributed _equally_).



Oh, I'm not doubting Bane contributed far more power to the ritual than the others (sans maybe Kaan).  It's just a question of how much, and we can only safely speculate what I've gotten.



> Plus Bane has learned transfer essence (something Revan never mastered)



Which Zannah, more or less Bane's equal at the time, overcame.  It was a battle of wills, and Revan's got better feats in that regard too (like resisting the Emperor's probing for 300 years without giving up any actual information).  



> Off-topic, but an amusing statement:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Aren't they fucking adorable when they think shit like 80% Sidious can be taken as a linear relationship?

Because I'm all for scaling Base Toguro's stats from his 100% form's showings 

Multi Block C Class Demons


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## Ramius (Mar 30, 2014)

Velocity said:


> When it comes to the way he treated his apprentices, I don't think Palpatine was a dick at all - from what I understand he was the most powerful Sith to have ever lived and all of his apprentices were jokes in comparison to him. Since his plan had always been to achieve immortality and rule his Galactic Empire until the end of time, any apprentices he took were merely tools to advance his goals. None of them could ever have actually defeated him, let alone prove themselves worthy of succeeding him... So why bother helping them achieve their potential? Might as well just use them and dump them when someone better comes along.



Well, may be "dick" is a strong word here, but impatient should fit the bill. And he definitely violated Rule of Two with the whole Palps-Dooku-Maul thing.



ChaosTheory123 said:


> Not too solid is somewhat of an understatement dude



Alright, it's a pretty damn shaky. I mean, if he didn't go into specifics and didn't include Vader there, then yeah.  

I wonder if that's actually the quote that people were talking about. If that's the case, then Bane really has not much on Novel Revan.



> Having the knowledge and skills doesn't equal having similar raw power.  Outside of maybe Darth Revan (and featwise, even that incarnation has better powerscaling), Bane sorely lacks in comparison there.



Fair enough. I was thinking the weaker incarnations of Revan. I thought it's established that Novel Revan and which other version (sorry, I couldn't bring myself to go through that swtor abomination and the novel is still very high on my priority list) is above. 
Now Darth Revan and End of Civil Jedi War could be a different story altogether. Just noticed I didn't mention it before, sorry.

What are the stats for those? 



> Aside from the fact his feats, especially the Novel fight vs Vitiate, trumps just about everything any Banite Sith prior to Sidious could feasibly accomplish in terms of raw power?



Same as above - I thought Revan was capped at higher end of country level or small continent. That's about the same Bane has. Excluding Novel Revan.



> Oh, I'm not doubting Bane contributed far more power to the ritual than the others (sans maybe Kaan).  It's just a question of how much, and we can only safely speculate what I've gotten.



Eh, the curse of low ends I guess. 



> Which Zannah, more or less Bane's equal at the time, overcame.  It was a battle of wills, and Revan's got better feats in that regard too (like resisting the Emperor's probing for 300 years without giving up any actual information).



Nah, I wasn't mentioning it as a "I win" tactic for Bane. I thought it was more or less established that even fuckers like Darth Sion could potentially resist it, so Revan shouldn't have a problem. I just mentioned it to show that Bane probably had more knowledge than Revan overall.



> Aren't they fucking adorable when they think shit like 80% Sidious can be taken as a linear relationship?
> 
> Because I'm all for scaling Base Toguro's stats from his 100% form's showings
> 
> Multi Block C Class Demons



That thread's nothing compared to


90.ninety.freaking.pages.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 30, 2014)

Ramius said:


> Alright, it's a pretty damn shaky. I mean, if he didn't go into specifics and didn't include Vader there, then yeah.



Indeed 

Though I'm not even sure how much authority he'd have on Bane vs Revan either.  I'd figure he's limited to clarifying information that's present in the separate novels, not so much speculation that he never wrote between them 



> I wonder if that's actually the quote that people were talking about. If that's the case, then Bane really has not much on Novel Revan.



Maybe?  I honestly don't know.



> Fair enough. I was thinking the weaker incarnations of Revan. I thought it's established that Novel Revan and which other version (sorry, I couldn't bring myself to go through that swtor abomination and the novel is still very high on my priority list) is above.



I see.



> Now Darth Revan and End of Civil Jedi War could be a different story altogether. Just noticed I didn't mention it before, sorry.



Gotcha.

I think JCW vs Plagueis is a fair match personally in that it could go either way.  Not so sure Bane could keep pace very long with either without being overwhelmed.

Darth Revan would be more fair, but there is a reason for him being high high tier as opposed to where I placed Bane  



> What are the stats for those?



 I covered here.  Jedi Civil War Revan is somewhere above that to an unknown extent.



> Same as above - I thought Revan was capped at higher end of country level or small continent. That's about the same Bane has. Excluding Novel Revan.



Around that, though Revan's a touch of a higher order of it.  Hard to really call what happened to Ambria more powerful than Nihilus' force wound shit down to Katarr.  So Revan kind of benefits from that too.



> Eh, the curse of low ends I guess.



Pretty much 



> Nah, I wasn't mentioning it as a "I win" tactic for Bane. I thought it was more or less established that even fuckers like Darth Sion could potentially resist it, so Revan shouldn't have a problem. I just mentioned it to show that Bane probably had more knowledge than Revan overall.



Gotcha.



> That thread's nothing compared to
> 
> 
> 90.ninety.freaking.pages.



I'm sure I agree with the consensus of who wins... not so much the arguments for why they concluded it though 

Not reading that shit, most star wars fan debates give me headaches off forum.


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## Palpatine (Mar 31, 2014)

Technically Palps violated the rule of two when he killed Plagueis in his sleep as well. Just throwing that out there.

Although I guess one could argue that he believed the rule of two no longer applied once he and Plagueis started up the plan.


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## trance (Mar 31, 2014)

Palpatine said:


> Technically Palps violated the rule of two when he killed Plagueis in his sleep as well. Just throwing that out there.
> 
> *Although I guess one could argue that he believed the rule of two no longer applied once he and Plagueis started up the plan*.



Pretty much. With Plagueis deciding he wants to be immortal and what not. Still, despite this, he was pretty quick to accuse Vader of betraying him when he found out Marek was his apprentice and even threatened to kill him.



Velocity said:


> When it comes to the way he treated his apprentices, I don't think Palpatine was a dick at all - from what I understand he was the most powerful Sith to have ever lived and all of his apprentices were jokes in comparison to him. *Since his plan had always been to achieve immortality and rule his Galactic Empire until the end of time, any apprentices he took were merely tools to advance his goals. None of them could ever have actually defeated him, let alone prove themselves worthy of succeeding him*... So why bother helping them achieve their potential? Might as well just use them and dump them when someone better comes along.



He was pretty confident Vader would surpass him in strength. He boasted so to Yoda, so he may have had some intention of Vader succeeding him. After all, he did spend about a decade manipulating his fall to the Dark side. However, when Vader suffered his injuries and was left weakened, Sidious probably decided that no one else was suitable but himself (until Marek and Luke came around that is).


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## Darth Revanchist (Dec 24, 2015)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Scenario 1: Darth Revan
> 
> Scenario 2: End of Jedi Civil War Revan
> 
> ...



OMG the best Revan ever what a rafine chose !

This is just absurd, all their skill raw power are just so similar.... I'm glad That Revan actually win... Because despite Plagueis hate for light saber combat he still kick ass ! It would be a ridiculously long combat and at the end of the day Revan would tired plagueis, because Revando not rely on force reserve like plagueis does...

Plagueis kick Palpatine ass for sure.. But it is something that Darth Revan ca do too.
Plagueis will start with the edge tho, I cannot deny this, he would to speed blitz Revan with some snaeky turbolaser bolts if he want to do that... Revan is quasi impossible to kill...

And ha Yhea? Revan holocron was just so badly dammage when Bane found it, and most of the lost knowledge that Bane try to recover after that was just lost... Bane look like a big clown compare to Darth Revan ! (And stop trying to state that those two clown of Revan and star forge Revan are the best they are just pale shadow of his former self posseded by the spirit off a guy born outright of the mind of the Jedi council !


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## Darth Revanchist (Dec 24, 2015)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Sure, your point?
> 
> Revan's hardly lacking, and featwise?
> 
> ...



Here is a quote for me.. Sory for the "quality" but this was mother fuckin' diifficult to right.. And excuse me if I forgot to mention that Revan did go on Malachor V AGAIN, for MOAR knowledge, and MOAR teaching fromhis first master. And some advise too...

Revan reborn SUCK, I'm the Revan expert here, The fact that we know few thing about the original Darth Revan do not make him weak, we know he is a amster Genius and his knowledge thirsty, he have learned under 4 master to return to his first master teh best of the order Aren Kae, he already have some fucking impressive feat of Farsight post connexion and telepathy, showing his passion with the force, he obvious share an immense bound with the force, it is said in KotOR I and II that he have learned to form and alter connexion with teh force that no Jedi have ever reach du to the Jedi philosophie.

We know that he come from the outer rim, but is born within the unknow Region.. And who had fled to the unknow Region? The sith ! Bioware would not give some free information like that,  especialy if it is higlited.. It mean that Revan have some sith blood, in his vein, peharps Vitiate one.

We know that Revan has knowledge thirsty have searched an hidden base during the mandalorian war. He heard that Mandalorian do not dare to put their foot on Malachor V, so he explore the region and found Trayus academmy, the accademmy held legion of holocrons,  each them granted him near unlimited knowledge and wisdom at each second he spend his time reading it. he spend two years studdying them alone untile his master Aren Kae Banned from the Jedi order Join him for two other years.

And Revan was already mother fucking damn intelligent, he had already devourlegion of holocron within the Jedi archive.

And he do not stopd their, after master planning the defeat of the mandalorian while purging his own army and creating some Dark echoes iwthin the force that would later let him creat a Dark Side nexus (yhea he had already fallen to the Dark side, and was already a sith lord in his act.

He headed for Nathema, gaining EVEN MOAR KNOWLEDGE !!

To free from Vitiate emprise he partialy deleted his memories, that mean he had planned a delay memory resert bomb. So he had planned to get brainwashed by Vitiate who would give him ressources knowledge etc.. Without restriction.

And Yhea Vitiate use some telepathy trick to teach him some trick with the Dark side, it will implant within revan a Dark personality that would survive even after amnesia Until the Jedi council decide to kill Revan and then begin KotOR I, but we are not done yet.

In his quest for the star forge he found even mroe knowledge (sith and Rakatta knowledge) he forge himsef a powerfull sith/rakatta robe and begin to use some Rakatta personal energy shield (fuel by Revan aura within the force)

He had reach Telos Dxun and a shit tone of other planet. So even MOAR Knowledge, he as set Korriban acaddemy to slavage sith artifact and holocron, that why in KotOR I when you reach the academmy  most of the mission that we give to you is collecting some sith artifacts.

He began his research on the star forge begin studdying Rakatta Technology, and also sith sorcery, in order to find a way to kill Vitiate. And it is always to gather even MOAR knowledge when you are Darth Revan (It is not the last time you hear MOAR knowledge) he will eventually continue his research even after discovering the psychic bomb, which seem kinda stupid when you consider that the dude have to lead and empire and a war at the same time, but considering Revan and malak power struggles, it seem clever.

Revan try to keep Malak at bay, fun fact it is during a training session between malak and Revan that HK-47 first use the term meat bag, Revan quicly notice that it was driving Malak insane + it was AMUSING (Revan use this word quite a lot as Darth Revan) not only he programmed the droid to use this word quite a lot, but he also use the Droid during the rare sparring session during the two so that Malak would not restrain himself..

On the other Hand Revan noticing Malak arrogance (arrogance that cause to often underestimate his opponent and over estimate himself) Decided to keep his newly found power at bay, so when Malak would try to take him down in a regular duel according to sith tradition, he would be SUPRISE MOTEHRFUCKUH, But Malak juste declar Lord Revan is dead he has been killed by the Jedi strike team, fire on his ship. And Revan was Finally Bastilia you will soon understand that you are the pray and me the hunter you have fallen in my tra.. HO FUCK YOU MALAK !!!

But I understand Malak, the ude is a minor tactical genius is freakin bad ass, and is destinned to surpass his master Darth Revan, But Darth Revan is just too awsome for him.... So he devlopped an inferiority complex. His hate for weakness make him despit Revan pitty and mercy, for him, Revan was weak because he did not go Ruthless style exterminatus, glassing every republic world undera rain of turbolaser, sparring his life, and being scare to use the star forge at full power were Revan fear to be brainwashed by the Star Forge.

In term of Martial Art it is said That Malak is the stronger Martial artist, it is indeed true, but only under a certain point of view, a better martial artist in the classical matter.

But Revan had acess to some of Tulak hord holocron, him and Kreia (Aren Kae) have found the one that talk about Tulak hord light saber technic, for Revan there is more strengh in his hand than in the entire body of his entire army (he is talking about telekinesis), thus martial art shall not be limitted to the use of blade and teh sheer muscl of your body,  For him he must forge his mind his 6 sens and telekinesis, and he did, he master light saber throw, he was cappble of boosting his strengh well enough so that his guard will not break easly, he boosted his speed and dexterity at some insane level (causing malak to learn some debuff abilities) he crafted and forge his mind into a deadly weapon thank to advanced min concealement technic,  his surface thoughwould be impulsive allowed him to react at anymoment and casting strong emotions to hie his other thoughs, and teh deepest of his mind he would be cold and calculated planning ahead for the enxt 6 months, so he cannot be predicted, it allow him to have multiple mental state at once allowing to use light side power as well as Dark side powers and have an insane precognition that make him very hard to kill hard to this, his drain heal, dark heal, a lot of protection technic, his tutaminis can take some light saber hit, he can reflect every force attack throw at him. So the dude is freakin hard to hit, and if you hit him you will not hurt him that much and he will recover, his pain tolerance is just insane his stamina his insane, and the force flow through him like a stream because teh dude is the ehart of the force he had embrace the force.

+Mandalore the ultimate defeat Malak in only two mooves, Revan single handly defeat him, he also defeat the general Yusanis in close quarter combat.

So yhea in term of martial artist Malak is the better martial artist in flesh and muscle, but Revan remember Tulak hord teaching : Simplicity is a strengh, rafine moove will not give you a good defence in any situation, where improoving you preco does.etc etc.. If do not make Revan approach Crude, the tactical genius have some martial art knowledge and practice, he know some tricks.

In term of force power, revan will power is unbreakable, his will is unmatched, for he doubted is a weakness for all of those that stand in the right path. Revan is always determined as hell. Combine this with his knowledge and very advanced telepatic technic, you jus have a solid and tugh mindraping machine. Even mind trick resistant species show no oppision to him. He is cappble to influence and have otal dominace over a mind, unlockinng him a shit tone of technics.

Telekinesis Revan already created an holocron, with a very exotic design, so sub molecular manipulation, his connexion to the force make it like his will is littarly summond by his telekinesis power, he even summon lightning from the sky while on lehon, he slaughter a pratrol of black rakatta and rancors, it mean unleashing a sub molecular reaction at 10 000KM above his head.

It is stated that his most casual power have a star system scale range...

The dude can make building collapse with casual ease and I would not be even surpise if was wielding entire fleet, the dude if the freaking heart of the force, he does have the absolute rash raw power stamina and mastery tod doe this...

He could peharps even force grabs entire sun, liek ancient sith use to do, but I kinda doubt this last one.

He is able of draining soemone force power, by shifting connexions untile the target get cut off of her power, overused on one target, the target lose her connexion to the force forever.

Revan was already a freakin army buster, but he was killed by the Jedi counil, since Commandant Shepard parasited his mind, this abobination created by the Jedi council share the same point of view with those last ones, Revan did not sacrifice himself, he was pure total evil, at the end of KoOT revan met redemption even if I face all his problem for him.. Etc etc... Dammaging Revan greatest asset : His mind, his memories wisom knowledge, mindset, at the end of KotOR I, you barely rediscover a ridiculous fractoin of Revan true power.

And this is what it is for most later incarnation of Revan, a shadow of his former self that is self convinced to be the original (except during his second duel with vitiate, it is unknowed to me)

Basicly Both SoR Revan are not Revan, one is created an generated by the Jedi council, the other is a pupette working for vitiate, the real Revan would have kill Vitiate under his sleep wih some psychic bomb...

N?1 Darth Revan the original one, does possess an astonishing quantity of advanced technic, he not lack raw power, because mother fucking heart of the force, and his tactical genius is intact.

He do not suffer the weakness taht we attribute to him, the later incarnation do not posses super strengh stamina and raw power, revan had always had tose udner his belt. His tactical Genius is far more greater than SoR Revan or Foundry Revan.

At the end of the day he is the best !


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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 24, 2015)

These last two posts


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## Kaaant (Dec 24, 2015)

I second that.



> On the other Hand Revan noticing Malak arrogance (arrogance that cause to often underestimate his opponent and over estimate himself) Decided to keep his newly found power at bay, so when Malak would try to take him down in a regular duel according to sith tradition, he would be SUPRISE MOTEHRFUCKUH, But Malak juste declar Lord Revan is dead he has been killed by the Jedi strike team, fire on his ship. And Revan was Finally Bastilia you will soon understand that you are the pray and me the hunter you have fallen in my tra.. HO FUCK YOU MALAK !!!



This is beautiful


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## Tzate (Dec 24, 2015)

I'd say as far as power power and skill in manipulating goes, Plagueis would be stronger as the thing he's done with the Force (or has allegedly done according to fluff) is greater than Revan.

In combat though, Revan had several active wars in which he fought while Plagueis had, at best, cold wars. In a straight up fight, Revan is just way more experienced at combat.


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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 24, 2015)

Kaaant said:


> I second that.
> 
> 
> 
> This is beautiful



It's like poetry, it rhymes.


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## Tzate (Dec 24, 2015)

Darth Revanchist said:


> OMG the best Revan ever what a rafine chose !
> 
> This is just absurd, all their skill raw power are just so similar.... I'm glad That Revan actually win... Because despite Plagueis hate for light saber combat he still kick ass ! It would be a ridiculously long combat and at the end of the day Revan would tired plagueis, because Revando not rely on force reserve like plagueis does...
> 
> ...





This high tier metre. Truly Shakespaerian


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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 24, 2015)

Tzate said:


> This high tier metre. Truly Shakespaerian



Such an eloquent narration good sir

Truly the workings of a master


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## Tzate (Dec 24, 2015)

NostalgiaFan said:


> Such an eloquent narration good sir
> 
> Truly the workings of a master



This was worth getting a PhD in English literature for.


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## Kaaant (Dec 24, 2015)

> The dude can make building collapse with casual ease and I would not be even surpise if was wielding entire fleet, the dude if the freaking heart of the force, he does have the absolute rash raw power stamina and mastery tod doe this...



Watch out guys, revan can make building collapse with not just ease, but casual ease.


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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 24, 2015)

Tzate said:


> This was worth getting a PhD in English literature for.



Centuries of advancement into such an academic study were brought forth into such a glorious form of writing.


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## trance (Dec 24, 2015)

Nice to see this was necroed just to say Revan wins.


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## Ramius (Dec 24, 2015)

Tzate said:


> This high tier metre. Truly Shakespaerian


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