# Third Raikage vs Sasuke



## Nardo6670 (Feb 28, 2013)

Distance: 30 meters

SOM: IC, to kill

Knowledge: Manga

Restrictionsne

location: Desert

Scenario 1: Alive Third Raikage vs MS Sasuke

Scenario 2: Edo Third Raikage vs EMS Sasuke. Sasuke has a sealing tag.

Can Sasuke take on and beat the 4th Raikage's dad? Raikage starts off in Raiton Armor for both scenarios.


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## Doge (Mar 1, 2013)

Raikage kills him.  He was reacting to RM Naruto and dodged a point blank FRS...twice.  The only way Sasuke can stay alive past the first few seconds is to immediately pull up Susanoo and wait for the 1 finger Nukite.


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## Krippy (Mar 1, 2013)

Sasuke lights him up with ammy and jumps on his hawk to watch the show


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## Rocky (Mar 1, 2013)

How "In Character", KantStop.


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## Bonly (Mar 1, 2013)

The Sandaime Raikage and A are around the same speed before A goes to V2. Sasuke was able to react to A and land a hit on him. Sasuke could likely do the same to the Sandaime Raikage but A was barely hurt(if at all) so the Sandaime Raikage who has a more durable body should result in the same thing. Sadly that would lead Sasuke o his death as the Sandaime can use his Yonhon Nukite and end Sasuke.

If Sasuke used his Susanoo then the Sandaime Raikage could break through the ribcage version with his Yonhon Nukite and use his Sanbon Nukite and  Ippon Nukite to get through and use his speed to dodge Sasuke's arrows likely. The problem comes in if Sasuke uses Enton which means the Sandaime can't hit Sasuke without being hit which meas he'll be losing a body part. If the Sandaime attacks Sasuke while using a Nukite then Sasuke would die once hit and the Sandaime will leave the fight like his son with one arm. Another problem that the Sandaime faces is Ama. When A saw Sasuke's MS he went V2 which allowed him to dodge Ama and with the Sandaime not showing a V2 its hard to say if he can dodge Ama. It depends on if A needed to go V2 to dodge Ama or did A go V2 just to be on the safe side?

I'd favor the Sandaime more times then not as he can outlast Sasuke and Sasuke's main way of winning would be Ama, upon which I believe the Sandaime can take out Sasuke before Sasuke uses Ama.


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## joshhookway (Mar 1, 2013)

Sandaime can run circles around Sasuke's Susanoo and wear him down. Sandaime is much faster than base A. Sandaime can dodge FRS and Sandaime has his own Raiton Shroud.


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## Hossaim (Mar 1, 2013)

joshhookway said:


> Sandaime can run circles around Sasuke's Susanoo and wear him down. Sandaime is much faster than base A. Sandaime can dodge FRS and Sandaime has his own Raiton Shroud.



Amaterasu, Susanoo Arrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FRS in speed.


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## joshhookway (Mar 1, 2013)

Hossaim said:


> Amaterasu, Susanoo Arrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FRS in speed.



Amaterasu was easily dodged by Raikage.

Susanoo is slower than Amaterasu and was easily dodged by Kabuto in a snake.


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## iJutsu (Mar 1, 2013)

Now which MS Sasuke is this? If it's the same as kage summit, he gets torn in half before he develops anything.

Pre-blind might last longer, but he never did get full armor susanoo. So raikage breaks his susanoo and nukes him. His arrows aren't coated with lightning chakra so he won't really hurt him. If he summons full, he goes completely blind and gets raped instantly.


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## ueharakk (Mar 2, 2013)

Arrows should be dodgeable, amaterasu on the other hand requires Ei's max speed shunshin which Sandaime hasn't shown the ability to use.

Possible draw in the long run since amaterasu will eventually kill Sandaime (might take hours or even days though).  Judging by the amount of damage amaterasu did to Ei's arm, Sandaime should be able to fight at near full combat capacity for a while even if he is hit with ammy early on.

From there we know that Sasuke would have to spam susanoo in order to stay alive since Sandaime is far faster than him, and while he can dodge and counter an initial blitz, there is a high chance of him getting grabbed right after.  We see in the danzou fight that using 1 amaterasu and skeletal susanoo makes sasuke start to breathe hard, and further into the fight, his mobility decreased to the point where he was falling over and coughing blood.  Also, judging by susanoo's feats against piercing attacks like danzou's enhanced fuuton, it will get pierced quite easily by the one finger nukite which has far more penetrative power than FRS.  

So ultimately, I see Sasuke lighting Sandaime on fire, then Sasuke possibly gets killed and then Sandaime eventually dies from the flames.  Of course there's also the possibility of Sasuke surviving against Sandaime long enough for ammy to kill him, or the possibility (though very low) of shutting down a burning Sandaime's RnY with genjutsu.  The thing that gives Sasuke the victory is Kirin.  If he survives long enough to pull off a kirin, that should be enough to deactivate Sandaime's shroud and damage him a bit. Using that window, he could inflict heavy damage on Sandaime via a susanoo arrow or sword stab.

*End result: MS Sasuke extreme diff*


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 2, 2013)

Hossaim said:


> Amaterasu, Susanoo Arrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FRS in speed.


Amaterasu is faster than Futon: Rasenshuriken, but its by an unknown amount. Susano'o's arrows (which are fricken _useless_ against the Raikage) most definitely isn't faster from its feats. Show me when the Susano'o arrows cross an entire mountain range in less than a second or do it in a faster time.

As for the battle, unless Amaterasu hits, the Third Raikage wins. And even then, given the tell tell times of Amaterasu's activation, the Raikage could avoid if he plays his cards right. Nothing short of a Final Susano'o from Sasuke can block his Nukite, which will cut through his Susano'o's lower forms like a hot knife through butter.


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## Hossaim (Mar 2, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Amaterasu is faster than Futon: Rasenshuriken, but its by an unknown amount. Susano'o's arrows (which are fricken _useless_ against the Raikage) most definitely isn't faster from its feats. Show me when the Susano'o arrows cross an entire mountain range in less than a second or do it in a faster time.
> 
> As for the battle, unless Amaterasu hits, the Third Raikage wins. And even then, given the tell tell times of Amaterasu's activation, the Raikage could avoid if he plays his cards right. Nothing short of a Final Susano'o from Sasuke can block his Nukite, which will cut through his Susano'o's lower forms like a hot knife through butter.



Lolno.

Incomplete Susanoo is more than enough to deal with the third, and the third has not shwon Raikages full top v2 speed which was needed for Raikage to avoid it. Susanoo arrows were fast enough at a short distance to tag SM  Kabuto, something Fuuton: Rasenshuriekn has not come close to in terms of feats. 

Amaterasu hits, Sasuke camps Susanoo, or genjutsu ends this.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 2, 2013)

Hossaim said:


> Lolno.
> 
> Incomplete Susanoo is more than enough to deal with the third, and the third has not shwon Raikages full top v2 speed which was needed for Raikage to avoid it. Susanoo arrows were fast enough at a short distance to tag SM  Kabuto, something Fuuton: Rasenshuriekn has not come close to in terms of feats.
> 
> Amaterasu hits, Sasuke camps Susanoo, or genjutsu ends this.


Only two characters have avoided Futon: Rasenshuriken: the Third Raikage and Pain. And again, what is the Susano'o Arrow's top speed? It has no top speed. Show it _crossing a fucking mountain range in less than a second_ and you have an argument.

Oh, Incomplete Susano'o is enough? Even though the Third Raikage's one-finger Nukite has more piercing power than the Futon: Rasenshuriken? Oh, and even though Danzo's weak ass Futon's could pierce Sasuke's Complete Susano'o? Yeah, stop with the wank.

Oh, Amaterasu still has a charge time that can be avoided. Sasuke camping in Susano'o is the worst thing he can do-and he couldn't even genjutsu A while in his initial Raiton no Yoroi. What chance against the stronger of the two Raikages?


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## Krippy (Mar 2, 2013)

Rocky said:


> How "In Character", KantStop.



how is it not?

there's no reason for him to engage him in CQC after what happened with his son, Sasuke will opt for MS right away

his Final Susanoo should be able to tank a nukite, which Sasuke can manifest in no time at all

once he sees an enton engulfed Raikage barreling at him, whats the logical thing for him to do?

he may put up Susanoo at first, but if he feels it may be breeched I see no reason for him not to take to the sky


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## Cizzl1985 (Mar 2, 2013)

Since Sasuke can go into the air, it's hard to name a winner.. Overall I would give it to the 3rd Raikage since he has amazing durability and speed feats even greater then Sasuke.. He also has some amazing Taijutsu attacks that can harm susano'o..


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## Stermor (Mar 2, 2013)

anyway amaterasu only hurts the raikage if sasuke can hit him without the shroud.. but considering the sandaime can keep up the shroud up for 3 days and nights.. sasuke is quite incapable of hurting the sandaime.. 

anyway considering danzo could break sasuke susanoo what chance does sasuke have against somebody who could hound kcm naruto(somebody much faster then sasuke) and who can destroy susanoo easily.. 

the hole fight will last seconds before the sandaime catches sasuke and kills him.. 

and then the sandaime has 3 days to find somebody to seal amaterasu.. so he doesn't die..


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## Jad (Mar 2, 2013)

*Ameratsu vs Sandaime*

If Ameratsu hit the 3rd Raikage, the black flames would just eventually spread to his entire body and thus blind his vision. He'd be incapable of finding and hitting Sasuke at that point. Sasuke could probably ride his hawk in the air as to wait for the Raikage to be completely covered in Ameratsu just encase. I understand he could continue to fight if the flames occupy any part of his body besides his head for a few, but eventually he will be completely covered and thus blinded. That's if you believe Ameratsu hits him. From a distance I think Sasuke will resort with the Enton Ameratsu version which Gaara was able to block, this might give him a chance to avoid. Closer up and he gets hit via the traditional method. No way of removing the flames as well, even if he wore a shirt and he took it off, Sasuke would just re-ignite him. He isn't Itachi where one shot of Ameratsu makes him falter, so he can do this.

*Sasuke's arsenal vs Sandaime Raikage*

I can't think of anything else in Sasukes arsenal that would harm the Raikage. All of his Chidori based techniques would only be overpowered by the Raikages shroud, and any of Sasunoo's attacks can be either dodged or blocked considering the strength the Sandaime holds. As an example, Ei was successfully able to stop a Sasunoo sword from hitting him with one arm. Sasukes only choice is either catching him within a Genjutsu, forcing the deactivation of the shroud and fatally injuring him with any Chidori variant or Ameratsu.

*Play-by-play*

Do I think Sasuke is going to attempt a similar close quarters clash with the Sandaime Raikage as he did with Ei? No. He may not know who the Sandaime Raikage is by title, but just the indication of the Raiton Shroud will be enough to set off warning bells. So I believe he will just right than and there rule out any close quarter clashes and try for a long to mid-range battle. What are his options? Katons, Chidori and Ameratsu. Did Chidori work the first time? No, he rules that out and goes with Katons. Notices the Sandaime can dodge them so the last attack he can perform that has any significance is to attempt to end it with Ameratsu. From a distance the Sandaime potentially dodges, but mid to close range he gets hit. At this point Sasuke's Sharingan is telling him that this guy isn't stopping. Sasuno is up and Sandaime starts slicing through it. Sasuke notices his defense is falling apart, so he summons his hawk and goes to the sky. Now Sasuke believes his safe in the air only to be cut short because the Sandaime fires _Black Panther Lighting_ at him. The Hawk isn't fast enough nor does it have the reflexes to avoid it; on top of that it was a surprise but effective hit. Sasuke is wounded and Sandaime closes in, so Sasuno comes back. The drilling begins again. Sasukes only other options while in Sasuno is to use the large blades to keep Sandaime at bay, but they get parried and sliced easily.

*Verdict:* If Blank Panther is a game ender, than Sandaime Wins. Otherwise I believe Sasuke can hold out just long enough for the Sandaime to be completely covered and blinded by the black flames that is Ameratsu. I think Sasuke takes it though, if he can grab hold of the Sandaime like Madara did to Ei, than he should win.

*Edit*: I deleted "overpower/power out of" considering Ei couldn't get out of the grasping clutch of Sasunoo. And while Sandaime with his hell bringer would be able to slice Sasunoo up, his hands would be by his waist side if he were to be caught in a similar situation as his son was. Than he wouldn't be able to bring up his hand to cut out of his hold. So I guess that's another way Sasuke could win, grabbing the Sandaime and going on from there.

*Note*: I didn't even bother bringing up Genjutsu, Sasuke didn't or couldn't use it on Ei, so it should be the same for Sandaime for whatever reason. Perhaps his isn't so strong.


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## Stermor (Mar 2, 2013)

Jad said:


> *Ameratsu vs Sandaime*
> 
> If Ameratsu hit the 3rd Raikage, the black flames would just eventually spread to his entire body and thus blind his vision. He'd be incapable of finding and hitting Sasuke at that point.
> 
> [ At this point Sasuke's Sharingan is telling him that this guy isn't stopping. Sasuno is up and Sandaime starts slicing through it. Sasuke notices his defense is falling apart, so he summons his hawk and goes to the sky.



few points i disagree with.. if the flames spread they didn't with E moving forward at speed will always give you clear eyesight.. and well sandaime is not stopping for anything.. if this becomes the case.. 

second point you believe if sasuke is in his susanoo and the susanoo is not instantly breached. he just summons the hawk and starts flying?? how is this possible the moment he stops susanoo to start flying. the sandaime, who at most is a susanoo distance away and a shitload faster then sasuke rips sasuke and the hawk out of the sky before they can even take off.. and remember he can jump pretty high.. 

anyway end result of this fight is sasuke dies.. sandaime get covered in amaterasu.. sandaime has 3 days to find somebody to seal the fire away..


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## Doge (Mar 2, 2013)

Hossaim said:


> Lolno.
> 
> *Incomplete Susanoo is more than enough to deal with the third,* and the third has not shwon Raikages full top v2 speed which was needed for Raikage to avoid it. Susanoo arrows were fast enough at a short distance to tag SM  Kabuto, something Fuuton: Rasenshuriekn has not come close to in terms of feats.
> 
> Amaterasu hits, Sasuke camps Susanoo, or genjutsu ends this.



You mean the Susanoo that couldn't shrug off V2 Ei chops or resist Danzo's futon?  Please, 1 finger Nukite is on a whole different level here.


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## Luftwaffles (Mar 2, 2013)

Hossaim said:


> Amaterasu, Susanoo Arrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FRS in speed.



FRS>>>>>Any other ninjutsu in the manga in speed bar S-T ninjutsu. FACT.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 3, 2013)

Lol, at some of the responses here.

Let's start actually utilizing canon, when negotiating these "dealings"

Sasuke's past five encounters.

Did I say five? I meant six.

Seeing, as all of the above showcases Sasuke going from 0-60, quite early. We shouldn't be composing arguments with him operating out of the norm.

Meaning no CQC match ups between the Sauce and Raikage...

As I said reiterated earlier panel above showcases Sasuke goring from 0-60 quite early.

And the troubleback regarding this match up is Amaterasu is GG.


The flames don't take long to burn through the shroud.

The troubleback regarding this match up, is Sadame Raikage's move set is mostly straightforward.

Charge 1, 2, 3 

Why isn't this a viable option?

Giving the nature of Raikage's assault is the close the distance and deliver a (insert your level) "Hell stab"

Couldn't Sasuke just theoretically perform the above maneuver in an up right position?  

That would ultimately serve to keep the Raikage at bay.(If he's already burning from the flames of Amaterasu)

Or administer the flames themselves if Raikage has somehow managed to avoid the flames out right.(Which he shouldn't be capable of doing, as he's not his son)

Either way this match ends once Enton/Amaterasu is administered, as Raikage's durability isn't above that of Nagato's Cerberus.

Which also tanked a FRS, if I recall.

A was only able to continue fighting because solely because his arm was the only thing engulfed.

People ignore Gara's statement.

The Uchiha brothers are simply a bad much up against anyone who cannot counter MS hax.

Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are specifically designed to bypass defensive resistances.

One administers it's effects for seven days, and the other ignores physical resistance outright.

I also love how Raikage is still immune to genjutsu, when Madara has showcased such is clearly not the case.


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## Turrin (Mar 3, 2013)

EMS Sasuke beats Sandaime Raikage, that one isn't even worth discussing. 

MS Sasuke vs Living Sandaime Raikage (assuming this means Sandaime Raikage gets his Amber Sealing Pot) is interesting. I'm sure Sasuke could eventually land Amaterasu flames on Sandaime Raikage defeating him, however Sasuke has no knowledge of the Amber Sealing pot and it's ability is extremely hax'd so Sandaime Raikage could easily win that way. It basically comes down to if he can last long enough to trick Sasuke into sealing himself. I could see it going ether way, though I still lean towards MS Sasuke having the better odds, if only slightly.


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## egressmadara (Mar 3, 2013)

Nardo6670 said:


> Distance: 30 meters
> 
> SOM: IC, to kill
> 
> ...


Raikage for both. Lowest difficulty will be for the first scenario.


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## Stermor (Mar 3, 2013)

everybody agrees sasuke will eventually light the sandaime on fire with amaterasu.. 

but that is not a death sentence at all.. aslong as the shroud is on, the fire isn't getting through.. as shown with A forgetting his arm was still on fire.. eventually the sandaime will die from it ofcourse but him killing sasuke should be possible before then.

hell stab beeing the most powerful penetrating jutsu known. should get past susanoo which has been breached by lower(significantly) jutsu's.. 

sandaime favors direct attacks.. the match will probebly end up with the sandaime charging at sasuke. sasuke catching a glimps and using amaterasu on sandaime.. sandaime either evades or just barrels through.. and hell stabs susanoo. which sasuke has managed to put up just in time.. 

this hole bit takes about 2 seconds.. 

sandaime is then inside susanoo and breaks sasuke in 2.. 

pretty much in second 3 the match is over.. 

anyway sandaime is then burning.. the only question in this matchup is the sandaime allowed to find somebody to seal amaterasu(something that should be possible in a couple days) or do we consider this a loss? 

making this fight a draw..


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## Shinryu (Mar 3, 2013)

3R can dodge Amaterasu casually since he dodged close ranged rasen-shuriken
3R can tank any of Sasuke's attacks and raiton techniques are useless on him
3R can break through an earth barrier and A RUBBER WALL
3R broke Gyuki's horn and fought a fucking bijuu with his bare hands
3R snaps Susanoo like a twig then proceeds to decapitate Sasuke

Without Susanoo: Sasuke gets blitzed
With Susanoo:3R just breaks it and kills him


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## cieloazul (Mar 4, 2013)

Raikage 8/10. He gets hit by amaterasu twice (the only way sasuke can win). That's the best i can give sasuke.


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## RickMartin Ben Janardhan (Mar 4, 2013)

as analytical as sasuke is, he'll quickly understand that the 3rd is just too durable and nothing sasuke has can defend against his hell stab.

which would leave sasuke the no choice but to summon his hawk and take it to the skies where he can just Make it rain ammy, susano arrows, Katon, and kirin. as durable as raikagernaught is, there's no way he's tanking or avoiding all that shit & to top it off raikagernaught has no way of reaching sauce.

sasuke takes this mid difficulty.


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## RickMartin Ben Janardhan (Mar 4, 2013)

OH SHIT! 

i forgot that it's been confirmed the raikages aren't immune to genjutsu.

Sasuke takes this with Zero difficulty!


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## Spika (Mar 4, 2013)

Scenario 1: Alive Third Raikage vs MS Sasuke

Sasuke is killed because he is not facing Konoha idiots that want to save him.

Scenario 2: Edo Third Raikage vs EMS Sasuke. Sasuke has a sealing tag.

Sasuke is killed because the Edo Third Raikage uses of of the kage level justsu only kages are suposed to know. 

But if you are playing canon mode, then some *ss pull will save him, or make him win.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 4, 2013)

Stermor said:


> everybody agrees sasuke will eventually light the sandaime on fire with amaterasu..


This is check mate for you, young man.



> but that is not a death sentence at all.. aslong as the shroud is on, the fire isn't getting through.. as shown with A forgetting his arm was still on fire.. eventually the sandaime will die from it ofcourse but him killing sasuke should be possible before then.


Are you actually utilizing the panel?

Amaterasu ate threw the shroud.

Hence why the flames remained ever after it's removal.

Killing Sasuke would be possible before then? From what feats?


His escapades against fodder?

Maybe you should examine the injuries of his son a bit closer....


Yondaime Raikage severed his arm almost immediately after making contact with the flames.

Maybe you should examine the manga a bit closer....

That very page cited "If you continued to attack the black flames would of harmed you even more"



> hell stab beeing the most powerful penetrating jutsu known. should get past susanoo which has been breached by lower(significantly) jutsu's..


Should get past WHICH variation of Susano?

Because both variation of Sasuke contain this version of Susano.

Should get past WHICH variation of Susano?(The above variations of Susano have yet to be breached by anything)

Because Susano has far better durability feats than that of Raikage's body.

Besides Susano is the only means to avoid hell stab.

I don't recall Sandaime Raikage being as fast as his son.


And Sasuke had  no trouble avoiding V1 Raikage.



> sandaime favors direct attacks.. the match will probebly end up with the sandaime charging at sasuke. sasuke catching a glimps and using amaterasu on sandaime.. sandaime either evades or just barrels through.. and hell stabs susanoo. which sasuke has managed to put up just in time..


He indeed does, which sets him up perfectly for this.

Sandaime can evade Susano? Based off what speed feat?

Where oh where was he cited to have speeds that bypass the gaze of the sharingan?


I only recall such details being sided in regards to his son.

And seriously "barreling" through Amaterasu?(That's how people lose credibility)

Let's see you "Barrow" through a cesspool of fire.

Silly assessments.

Kabuto didn't attempt to try it, even with the means to regenerate a new body.

Silly assessments.

Have you ever stop to consider that Raikage IS SEEKING TO EMERGE from the battle alive?

He gets engulfed in flames, and he's perfectly capable of thinking rationally?

That's not rational mate.

"Direct attack" have you ever stop to consider all of Sasuke's options in that situation.

Perhaps you need a reminder of what happened to his "Son"


As I said before Nagato's Cerberus had a similar showcasing.

But it fell to the flames of Amaterasu almost immediately.

You're basing much of your assessment off the actions of his son.

But even he wasn't thinking rationally.

This or this weren't rational maneuvers.

The only one cited to have come out of both of those exchanges BADLY WAS THE RAIKAGE.



> this hole bit takes about 2 seconds.


Yea, Susano has operated under much faster conditions.


Indeed.

As, has the sharingans' precognitive abilities.



> sandaime is then inside susanoo and breaks sasuke in 2..


Yep because we've seen two individuals occupy Susano simultaneously?

That's that "lol" logic you're on.

If you're going to argue in favor of a character please oh please, know the actual character.

Raikage's blitz isn't that fast mate.


Hand seals and jutsu emerged before Raikage could close a far far less than "30 meter" distance between himself and Naruto.

I said before, this check mate for you mate.



> pretty much in second 3 the match is over..


Yea, I don't think even Oro vs. Itachi was three seconds.

Stermor is this your idea of trolling?



> anyway sandaime is then burning.. the only question in this matchup is the sandaime allowed to find somebody to seal amaterasu(something that should be possible in a couple days) or do we consider this a loss?
> 
> making this fight a draw..


No, that's that fanfiction you're weighing on.

Sasuke has a sure fire counter to sandaime Raikage's durability factor.

He also possesses the means to avoid Raikage's more straight forward attacks.

He doesn't possess the speed of his son, so stop making arguments that implicates such people.

His best feat was avoiding FRS, which was mimic by pain TWICE.


Including point blank range.

Raikage was cited to be fast, but not on the level of his son.

Remember A was cited to be the fastest person after Minato.


Thus by preponderance of the evidence, in which we didn't need.

You're officially dead, on this subject, after this post.

(But you're more than welcome to disagree, just note I won't be as kind in the second round)


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Mar 4, 2013)

The fourth raikage only dodged amaterasu because of his V2 speed which his father does not posses. Seeing as sasuke can dodge V1 raiton shroud speed in close quarters due to his sharigan a amaterasu counter can happen anytime sasuke wishes. It does not help that the third raikage attack in linear obvious attack patterns. Having manga knowledge and having fought a raikage makes the counter attack even more probable.

Third raikage on the other does not know shit on sasuke's amaterasu or tsukyomi but he most likely knows of the sharigan's generic abilities. The third raikage can be hit with ama or tsukyomi low diff.

Sasuke takes this both rounds due to MS hax. I do not even think it would be too difficult.


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## Bansai (Mar 4, 2013)

I don't think the A's lightning armor was as strong as the third Raikage's, since even the best wind style ninjutsu was not able to put a single scratch on the third Raikage, while Chidori seemed to be enough, although wind style should have the advantage in this case. If that's really the case, I can imagine Sasuke having a lightning jutsu that would be enough to pierce through the third Raikage's body, and I don't think he can perform the same impact as Naruto with his Rasengan in order to make the third Raikage pierce himself. Sasuke's Jutsus may be more dangerous than Naruto's, but I don't think they can do such a thing, therefore I'll simply give it to the third Raikage because I don't see how Sasuke is going to win this.


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## Doge (Mar 4, 2013)

Does anyone have any evidence Amaterasu would kill the Raikage before he stabs Sasuke through his Susanoo?


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## Bkprince33 (Mar 4, 2013)

kresh said:


> Does anyone have any evidence Amaterasu would kill the Raikage before he stabs Sasuke through his Susanoo?



Keep in mind A struck susano while it was covered with amatarasu, he only recieved damage on his arm and even then he had to cut it off, if his whole body was lit on fire it would of been a completley different story, if raikage gets lit on fire its gg, even the hachibee fell pretty fast to ammy.


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## Stermor (Mar 4, 2013)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> This is check mate for you, young man.



sorry but i laughed at your post.. i started to reply but it was to much bullshit.. 

few short points.. 

amaterasu will hurt him eventuelly.. i agree just not fast enough to make him lose or hinder him just like his son.. 

susanoo(barring madara's perfect one, and yata's mirror) have no feats of taking anything as strong as a hellstab)

the sandaime pressured kcm naruto.. that alone means he has more then enough speed to hurt sasuke..


Bkprince33 said:


> Keep in mind A struck susano while it was covered with amatarasu, he only recieved damage on his arm and even then he had to cut it off, if his whole body was lit on fire it would of been a completley different story, if raikage gets lit on fire its gg, even the hachibee fell pretty fast to ammy.



he cut his arm off after sasuke fled a good while later.. with no real damage to the arm.. he cut it off to prevent the spread of amaterasu and the eventualy more damage.. 

we don't know if the hachibi really fell.. it has taken attacks 1000 times more powerful and walked it off.. and bee was really looking forward to a vacation..


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## Rosencrantz (Mar 4, 2013)

Krippy said:


> how is it not?
> 
> there's no reason for him to engage him in CQC after what happened with his son, Sasuke will opt for MS right away
> 
> ...


Because Sasuke has never done that before ever. Or anything close to it.

Irrelevant. Never done and never suggested to be done. Sasuke's logic=/=your logic.

Doubtful. Nukite is vastly stronger than FRS. And even that jutsu is debatable to break through Susano. So Nukite likely breaks through. And Sasuke does take time to be able to form his final Susano (MS Sasuke anyway).

Your logic=/=Sasuke's logic.

OOC as shit.


On topic: Sasuke should win. People honestly think Amaterasu can not even slow him down? FRS at least knocked him down, turned off his aura, and put him down for a short time. Amaterasu should be able to do something like that and the flames will not go out for a week. This can lead to rapid fire enton spam on him which should make this guy go down after a short while. And he will not start off with his strongest jutsu so Sasuke will be fine with Susano to start off at least.


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## Doge (Mar 4, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> Keep in mind A struck susano while it was covered with amatarasu, he only recieved damage on his arm and even then he had to cut it off, if his whole body was lit on fire it would of been a completley different story, if raikage gets lit on fire its gg, even the hachibee fell pretty fast to ammy.



The Hachibi and Ei don't have the quality durability the Sandaime Raikage has.  All he needs is 3 seconds to stab through Susanoo and he ends it.

What makes you think Amaterasu will kill the guy who tanked a straight FRS in less time than it did to toast the Hachibi who had his tentacles cut off by Nukite, Chidori, and even a kunai?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 4, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> On topic: Sasuke should win. People honestly think Amaterasu can not even slow him down? FRS at least knocked him down, turned off his aura, and put him down for a short time. Amaterasu should be able to do something like that and the flames will not go out for a week. This can lead to rapid fire enton spam on him which should make this guy go down after a short while. And he will not start off with his strongest jutsu so Sasuke will be fine with Susano to start off at least.


Futon: Rasenshuriken knocked off the Sandaime's Raiton no Yoroi due to the elemental advantage, something which Amaterasu doesn't have. If A's inferior (defensively) Raiton no Yoroi could endure Amaterasu with A only noticing after he turns it off, the Sandaime Raikage should outright be able to tank it and die three days later after his stamina goes out.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 5, 2013)

Stermor said:


> sorry but i laughed at your post.. i started to reply but it was to much bullshit..


You can laugh, but let's be real.

You don't add up, good sir.

Stermor, I'll body you with the quickness, anytime.(You don't want to put your posting life against me)



> few short points..


I only speak panel young fella, you got to come at me correctly.



> amaterasu will hurt him eventuelly.. i agree just not fast enough to make him lose or hinder him just like his son..


That's laughable.

Here's an idea set yourself on fire, and see if it hurts "Eventually"

I don't think Raikage's pain receptors are retarded, but that's what happens when you netting "save face" responses.(That ain't logical)

How is his situation any different than Nagato's Cerberus? 

Nagato's Cerberus has similar feats including tanking RS


I could of sworn Cerberus was cited to only get stronger post tanking damage.

Perhaps Amaterasu was an exception to that rule? 



> susanoo(barring madara's perfect one, and yata's mirror) have no feats of taking anything as strong as a hellstab)


It has no feats of failing either mate.

It's a two way street.

And let's fact the trip.

Sasuke's shield has a relatively decent tanking feat.

Let's fact the trip.

Sasuke's stage two has a relatively decent tanking feat.

And I think it's safe to say his Susano here or here.

Are much, more potent defensively.

It's a two way street, but the difference is you're saying it can, thus the burden of proof falls upon you.

You got to do better, if you want to emerge from this discussion with your pride intact.

Thus far you've yet to validate your point beyond hell stab breaches Susano, ignoring Sasuke's numerous other option.

Thus far you've yet to validate your point beyond hell stab potentially breaching Susano, which isn't guaranteed

Thus far you've yet to validate your point beyond hell stab being successfully executed post application of Amaterasu and or possibly sharingan genjutsu, or both.

You cite my assessment as a joke, but it's clear you don't have a proper response for none of it.

The only joke I see is your  omission of the reality of being set on fire.

He body may be durable, but pain is still a reality.

As was the case with Hachibi(Which tanked a bijudama or two)

You bank your assessment off his sons limited success post application of Amaterasu, but you ignore he was willing to give up what was potentially "His life", solely to administer what may or may not be a killer blow.

The span in which Amaterasu occupied Raikage's arm was a relatively brief one.

He traded blows with Sasuke here.

And almost immediately followed up with his leg drop. 

He severed his arm briefly afterwards.



> the sandaime pressured kcm naruto.. that alone means he has more then enough speed to hurt sasuke..


KCM Naruto is only notable speed wise when he's utilizing shushin.

Otherwise: Black zetsu, Kimimaru, Itachi, Mu, Jinchuuriki's, Raikage, etc. etc. were all capable of keeping up with him.

But the trouble back with your assessment is that he failed to hurt Naruto.

In fact "Rubber guy" successfully manage to remove Naruto from harm TWICE.

No, one isn't saying he ain't fast, but his speed doesn't seem to be anything close to his "Sons" sharigan blitzing speed.

And you forget SM Naruto manage to avoid him just fine.


That above is reminiscent to Sasuke's action here.

(I told you, you don't want to see me on these boards)

I give you manga in exchange for bullshit.

None of your assessment seems to check out with panel, mate.



> he cut his arm off after sasuke fled a good while later.. with no real damage to the arm.. he cut it off to prevent the spread of amaterasu and the eventualy more damage..


Already countered you above.

He cut his arm off shortly after making contact with Sasuke's enton, as proven above.

And oh no poor boy.

He cut his arm off before Sasuke fled.

In fact he was still receiving medical treatment while Sasuke was handling Garra and friends.

In fact even post his treatment, he didn't stay true to his promise of "Returning to attack Sasuke"

Too much bullshit? Let's be real.

You get scrape crazy, when you in the opposite seat.



> we don't know if the hachibi really fell.. it has taken attacks 1000 times more powerful and walked it off.. and bee was really looking forward to a vacation..


Oh he fell baby, maybe you need to start reading the panels correctly.

This is the real Hachibi.

His escape took place here.

As Sasuke later confirmed.

Light work, I seriously need to start taking score.

(Stermor how do you laugh, when I can dismiss your assessments with a click of a button)


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## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 5, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Futon: Rasenshuriken knocked off the Sandaime's Raiton no Yoroi due to the elemental advantage, something which Amaterasu doesn't have. If A's inferior (defensively) Raiton no Yoroi could endure Amaterasu with A only noticing after he turns it off, the Sandaime Raikage should outright be able to tank it and die three days later after his stamina goes out.



Double post.

Wait what?

Amaterasu already proved his potency against A SIMILAR defense.

The flames eventually breached the shroud.


Such is what it's still present post utilization of the shroud.  

No elemental advantage required.

Maybe you forgot how Amaterasu works, no matter I'll remind you.

"They continue to burn to the target is eradicated even if the target is flames itself"

If it burn fire, such would implicate it burns chakara all together.

Meaning Raikage's shroud was a goner the minute he made contact with the flames.

And he only decided to deal with it after turning it off?

Please note "Durai's" comments.

"He gave up his left arm"

Even C was surprised that Raikage was willing to go so far.

Meaning he already knew the results of making contact with Amaterasu.

So it isn't he didn't notice the flames, as his comrades did.

He didn't care.

As he later implied.

And let's us not forget Garra's comment.

"If you had continued to attack, the black flames would have harmed you further"

So unless you're implying Raikage is dumber than a bucket of rocks, I'm quite sure he was well aware of the flames, as several observers did.

I'm pretty sure Raikage was willing to give up his life, to kill Sasuke.

As he didn't bat an eye here.

So is it really a case of noticing or not caring? I wounder which one does the panel support?

(Two for two, as I said before light work)


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## Bkprince33 (Mar 5, 2013)

kresh said:


> The Hachibi and Ei don't have the quality durability the Sandaime Raikage has.  All he needs is 3 seconds to stab through Susanoo and he ends it.
> 
> What makes you think Amaterasu will kill the guy who tanked a straight FRS in less time than it did to toast the Hachibi who had his tentacles cut off by Nukite, Chidori, and even a kunai?



Sasuke will likely be able to avoid nukite with precognition, not to mention a full impact amatarasu will block the raikage's vision.


Amatarasu is different, cerberous tanked frs, but died instantly from amatarasu, amatarasu will stay on the third raikage and eventually burn him no matter how durable he is.


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## Stermor (Mar 5, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> Sasuke will likely be able to avoid nukite with precognition, not to mention a full impact amatarasu will block the raikage's vision.
> 
> 
> Amatarasu is different, cerberous tanked frs, but died instantly from amatarasu, amatarasu will stay on the third raikage and eventually burn him no matter how durable he is.



the cerberous did not die.. it was just beeing burned.. it prevents his splicing ability, well more like makes it useless from the constant pain without beeing able to do anything from it.. the pain was dehablitating enough to keep the cerebrous down though.. but that won't really stop the sandaime.. 

sasuke might survive the nukite, but then you have the sandaime standing next to you inside susanoo.. he's not really surviving the next attack at that point..


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## ueharakk (Mar 5, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> Sasuke will likely be able to avoid nukite with precognition, not to mention a full impact amatarasu will block the raikage's vision.



If this is MS Sasuke we are talking about, he is going to have a very difficult time avoiding Nukite if he is using Susanoo as the technique really hurts him and inhibits his mobility.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Mar 5, 2013)

Krippy said:


> Sasuke lights him up with ammy and jumps on his hawk to watch the show



Pretty much this. 
Sandaime doesn't stand a chance against Amaterasu.


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## LostSelf (Mar 5, 2013)

What if Sasuke lights Sandaime in Amaterasu and he runs and hugs Sasuke?


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## Rosencrantz (Mar 5, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Futon: Rasenshuriken knocked off the Sandaime's Raiton no Yoroi due to the elemental advantage, something which Amaterasu doesn't have. If A's inferior (defensively) Raiton no Yoroi could endure Amaterasu with A only noticing after he turns it off, the Sandaime Raikage should outright be able to tank it and die three days later after his stamina goes out.



Wait do not recall his Raiton no Yoroi ever being shown to be superior. What seemed to be superior was simply HIM as in his durability. You honestly think A is that dumb that he did not notice Amaterasu was burning him alive until AFTER he turned off his raiton aura? The flames clearly would have spread all over him. A had to cut off his arm to prevent it from spreading. As we have seen in every case of Amaterasu unless the flames get shut off or something. When the flames hit Sandaime, they will spread over his entire body unless he cuts off a body part. Sandaime will likely still be alive. But considering how much pain that caused to a bjuu, he should be in excruciating pain and once the flames reach his face, he will not be able to even see anymore. This makes him a target for enton spam from his Susano.


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## Bkprince33 (Mar 5, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> If this is MS Sasuke we are talking about, he is going to have a very difficult time avoiding Nukite if he is using Susanoo as the technique really hurts him and inhibits his mobility.



True but I doubt he would need to resort to susano, against the raikage he only used it against v2, his father hasn't displayed v2 speed and considering how identical nukite, is to chidori, I'm sure sasuke could avoid it for a while.


Amatarasu will at the very least slow the raikage down and it should also hinder his vision a bit, its basically once amatarasu hits sasuke can just dodge and be on the defensive until it takes effect, not to mention he can use enton to ensure it covers his vision, sasuke also has the option to genjutsu him.


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## Rosencrantz (Mar 5, 2013)

^^False. He used Susano before V2 came out.


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## Bkprince33 (Mar 5, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> ^^False. He used Susano before V2 came out.



Would u mind posting a link?


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## Bonly (Mar 5, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> Would u mind posting a link?



Sasuke has susanoo up and then A goes V2 once he see Sasuke's MS.


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## Bkprince33 (Mar 5, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Sasuke has susanoo up and then A goes V2 once he see Sasuke's MS.



Ahhh good point, well seeing how sasuke, now has experience fighting against the raiton style, i doubt he would approach sandaime raikage the same way, sasuke only got pressured into using susano after the raikage tanked chidori and held sasukes hand giving his experience he may now opt to use ammy for long range and then proceed to dodge until it takes effect.


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## Mercurial (Mar 5, 2013)

I would like to remember the Third is not at the same level of his son in speed,if we talk about Raiton no Yoroi he hasn't shown the 2nd level with the full speed Shunshin,he is very fast but with only 1st level... he dodged the FRS (something most Pain bodies accomplished,and Deva Path even in a very bad state) but failed to blitz Dodai

I mean,Dodai 

Sasuke easily dodges with Sharingan precognition... matter is taking him down,but Amaterasu followed by the hawk Kuchiyose to camp away the Third's reach should suffice


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 5, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> Wait do not recall his Raiton no Yoroi ever being shown to be superior. What seemed to be superior was simply HIM as in his durability. You honestly think A is that dumb that he did not notice Amaterasu was burning him alive until AFTER he turned off his raiton aura? The flames clearly would have spread all over him. A had to cut off his arm to prevent it from spreading. As we have seen in every case of Amaterasu unless the flames get shut off or something. When the flames hit Sandaime, they will spread over his entire body unless he cuts off a body part. Sandaime will likely still be alive. But considering how much pain that caused to a bjuu, he should be in excruciating pain and once the flames reach his face, he will not be able to even see anymore. This makes him a target for enton spam from his Susano.


Evidence kinda points to the whole screaming in pain from Amaterasu being faked by Killer Bee, since he had already switched with his Octopus Leg Clone by then to fake out Sasuke.

And anyway, A never noticed his arm was even on fire until it was pointed out, and given that the Sandaime is far, far more durable than his son he can endure it a lot better than his son.


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## Nikushimi (Mar 5, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Evidence kinda points to the whole screaming in pain from Amaterasu being faked by Killer Bee, since he had already switched with his Octopus Leg Clone by then to fake out Sasuke.



There is no "evidence" that points to Killer B faking his cries of agony.

Besides which, being vaporized completely isn't really something you can fake; B's Hachibi form was burned away until there was nothing left.



> And anyway, A never noticed his arm was even on fire until it was pointed out,



A deliberately swung his hand through the flames to hit Sasuke. He knew damn well it was on fire.



> and given that the Sandaime is far, far more durable than his son he can endure it a lot better than his son.



Durability=/=fire resistance.

The foamy shit that comes out of fire extinguishers isn't very durable, but it's a hell of a lot more flame resistant than dry lumber.


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## Nikushimi (Mar 5, 2013)

As for the match, Sasuke hits the Raikage with Amaterasu and then protects himself with Susano'o for the thirty or so seconds it takes his opponent to burn to death.


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## Krippy (Mar 5, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> Because Sasuke has never done that before ever. Or anything close to it.



He's never fought anyone who can (possibly) withstand a direct Amaterasu and keep fighting, so it's not OOC if he's never been in that situation



> Irrelevant. Never done and never suggested to be done. Sasuke's logic=/=your logic.



lol Sasuke is not going to rush in like last time when his opponent uses the same shroud that protected yondaime from his Chidori in canon



> Doubtful. Nukite is vastly stronger than FRS. And even that jutsu is debatable to break through Susano. So Nukite likely breaks through. And Sasuke does take time to be able to form his final Susano (MS Sasuke anyway).



No it's not, prove a nukite is town level+ and then you can argue

nope, Sasuke has his final Susanoo and a mastered MS, he can put it up as fast as he did versus the zetsu clones



> Your logic=/=Sasuke's logic.


so what's he to do?


> OOC as shit.


any scans or proof of this? Sasuke has only used his hawk once so I don't know where you are getting this OOC claim, especially if Kirin gets prepped


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## Stermor (Mar 5, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> There is no "evidence" that points to Killer B faking his cries of agony.
> 
> Besides which, being vaporized completely isn't really something you can fake; B's Hachibi form was burned away until there was nothing left.





Nikushimi said:


> you mean besides his own confession that he wanted a vacation.. or because he had no use at all for full hachibi mode.. he was casually killing taka without effort(without going full bijuu).. or beside the fact that the hachibi took attacks 1000 times more powerful??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Nikushimi (Mar 5, 2013)

Stermor said:


> you mean besides his own confession that he wanted a vacation.. or because he had no use at all for full hachibi mode.. he was casually killing taka without effort(without going full bijuu)..



Absolutely none of that implies that he faked an expression of pain. I don't see how anybody would arrive that conclusion except through an effort to totally dismiss the legitimacy of anything Sasuke accomplished in that fight, which I don't see an honest need for.

Yes, B was stronger than Sasuke. Yes, he exploited the fight to get out of Kumogakure for a while. But that doesn't mean he only "pretended" to be hurt by Amaterasu.



> or beside the fact that the hachibi took attacks 1000 times more powerful??



What would those attacks be? I wasn't even aware that attacks more powerful than Amaterasu existed; we have yet to see anything actually stop Amaterasu, so I'm not sure what you're basing the comparison on.



> he knew and forgot.. most fire doesn't really stick if you move your hand through it.. he wasn't showing any signs of pain or loss of power at all..



A stopped himself reflexivelywhen he saw the flames. He knew they were there. He sacrificed his arm anyway just to get a hit in on Sasuke. It was never suggested that he was oblivious to the fact that he was on fire, and I don't see why or how anyone would believe such a thing.



> in this case the lighting shroud alone already has feats of protecting the yondaime for how ever long the fight lasted.. no reason to asume the guy famous for his durability would be weaker..



The Yondaime Raikage wasn't on fire for more than the few seconds it took him to jump up and Guillotine Drop. And he still ended up amputating his arm to get away from the flames, so they were clearly a danger to him.


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## Doge (Mar 5, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> Sasuke will likely be able to avoid nukite with precognition, not to mention a full impact amatarasu will block the raikage's vision.



Sasuke won't be able to fire off Ammy without being inside Susanoo without opening himself up to a Nukite of any number of fingers.

And what proof is there Raikage would be blinded by Amaterasu?  Has that ever happened before?



Bkprince33 said:


> Amatarasu is different, cerberous tanked frs, but died instantly from amatarasu, amatarasu will stay on the third raikage and eventually burn him no matter how durable he is.



No he did not die instantly, he kept burning.  

And how would Sasuke avoid the Raikage considering he would be up close and personal with him?  It's IC for Sasuke to camp Susanoo, and even if he didn't, every other enemy he fought he went CQC with and showed no sign of running circles around them.


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## ATastyMuffin (Mar 5, 2013)

First off, there is *no way in hell* Sandaime Raikage is avoiding Amaterasu. However, unless the entire_ 'eat chakra'_ capability Amaterasu apparently holds is true (this never happened against Gaara's sand), I'm really struggling to see how flames can logically be hot enough to break a shroud made of lightning.

I'm not saying it can't, but the concept confuses me. 

But yeah, Ei was able to withstand the technique for a good amount of time, and seemed to only notice after his shroud was deactivated, thus prompting him to slice his arm off to prevent further injury. Though he'll obviously fall victim to it in time, Sandaime can withstand it a *hell* of a lot longer, and that difference may grant him the close-ranged victory. 

I'm edging towards Sasuke, if he's smart enough to realize Sandaime would absolutely slaughter him if he gets within fifteen meters of him.


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## Doge (Mar 5, 2013)

ATastyMuffin said:


> I'm edging towards Sasuke, if he's smart enough to realize Sandaime would absolutely slaughter him if he gets within fifteen meters of him.



Unfortunately, Sasuke has an inclination to either go CQC (even with Ei), or go straight into Susanoo.  He has never opted to play the evasion game with his MS, and he probably wouldn't considering he only has manga knowledge on Sandaime, which doesn't include Nukite, durability, or black lightning.

He's previously allowed himself to both be hit by Killer B by a lariat and stabbed with his swords, both in the same fight.  He tried CQC against Raikage who just pummeled Jugo then camped Susanoo.  And from then on, it's almost always been either short CQC bouts or a Susanoo Arrow/Amaterasu offensive.


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## Rosencrantz (Mar 5, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Evidence kinda points to the whole screaming in pain from Amaterasu being faked by Killer Bee, since he had already switched with his Octopus Leg Clone by then to fake out Sasuke.
> 
> And anyway, A never noticed his arm was even on fire until it was pointed out, and given that the Sandaime is far, far more durable than his son he can endure it a lot better than his son.


He had? That was after amaterasu hit. And as soon as he was hit, he screamed in pain.

A is not that stupid that he never noticed. I am not talking about enduring as much as I am saying that the flames would literally cover his entire body. He would not be able to see a thing. If anyone could live after a week with it on his body, it would be him but the flames would still cause harm to him and prevent him from seeing.



Krippy said:


> He's never fought anyone who can (possibly) withstand a direct Amaterasu and keep fighting, so it's not OOC if he's never been in that situation
> 
> lol Sasuke is not going to rush in like last time when his opponent uses the same shroud that protected yondaime from his Chidori in canon
> 
> ...


And he has never gotten on his hawk and just stay away from his opponent. So OOC.

I agree.

Pardon? FRS could not hurt Sandaime. A giant fuuton broke through Level 3 Susano. FRS is superior to that, so FRS can very well break Level 4 Susano and can break through anything lower. Nukite is far superior. So if FRS might be able to break through Level 4 Susano, then Nukite (which is far superior) definitely can. 

That was EMS Sasuke. Could have sworn MS Sasuke was being discussed.

Something he does in canon. Which is not sit on his hawk in the sky and chill.

Yes. The scans that do not exist SHOWING Sasuke doing this. And the fact that the OP says this is an IC match up. That's my proof. Where is your proof that Sasuke does this in the canon? He never has hence your failure. Kirin has nothing to do with that. You linked two unrelated ideas. Debating 101 dude.


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## Bkprince33 (Mar 6, 2013)

kresh said:


> Sasuke won't be able to fire off Ammy without being inside Susanoo without opening himself up to a Nukite of any number of fingers.
> 
> And what proof is there Raikage would be blinded by Amaterasu?  Has that ever happened before?
> 
> ...



you make it seem as if raikage would resort to his strongest technique off the bat? even being a edo that wasnt his first choice of technique.


sasuke can use a amatarasu from a distance just fine, im not seeing how this puts him in danger.



we never seened the results from amatarasu blinding someone, because once it connects it usually ends the fight, but we have cases in the manga where amatarasu covers someones face.


if the raikage face is covered with black flames, i would logically think that his vision would be a bit hindered, or he may even be completley blinded.



sasuke now has a general idea off what he is dealing with and will opt ot to engage raikage in cqc seeing as he fought his son and experienced first hand how that turned out.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 6, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> He had? That was after amaterasu hit. And as soon as he was hit, he screamed in pain.


Given he was attacking with a punch-instead of a Bijudama or Biju Hachimaki, I think it was obvious at that point of the battle he had already made his switch and was planning on throwing the fight.


> A is not that stupid that he never noticed. I am not talking about enduring as much as I am saying that the flames would literally cover his entire body. He would not be able to see a thing. If anyone could live after a week with it on his body, it would be him but the flames would still cause harm to him and prevent him from seeing.


A did barely notice it. He only did after he turned off his Raiton no Yoroi and severed his hand to keep it from spreading.


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## Doge (Mar 6, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> you make it seem as if raikage would resort to his strongest technique off the bat? even being a edo that wasnt his first choice of technique.



You make it seem like Sasuke would refrain from going into CQC with him and also not use his Susanoo/Enton combo.  Evasion while spreading Amaterasu has never been an opener for Sasuke.



Bkprince33 said:


> sasuke can use a amatarasu from a distance just fine, im not seeing how this puts him in danger.



For one, he has to glare at his opponent and avoid the Raikage Black-Lightning Shroud blitz.  Every other character we've seen bar Naruto at the beginning of Part 2 was able to engage Sasuke in CQC without him vastly outspeeding them.

Furthermore, they start at 30m apart with manga knowledge.  Raikage's only moveset is CQC, so he'll blitz Sauce.  What's Sauce more inclined to do, pull out his Susanoo after remember Raikage's failure to consistently break even the v1 ribcage Susanoo, go into a CQC bout, or suddenly summon his hawk and spread Amaterasu?





Bkprince33 said:


> we never seened the results from amatarasu blinding someone, because once it connects it usually ends the fight, but we have cases in the manga where amatarasu covers someones face.



Which ones?  I haven't seen much note of Amaterasu's blinding capabilities.  It didn't seem like Cerberus, Hachibi, etc. were blind while being lit up.  And in all of those cases, Amaterasu was never actually covering 100% of the body (eyes in particular).



Bkprince33 said:


> if the raikage face is covered with black flames, i would logically think that his vision would be a bit hindered, or he may even be completley blinded.



I only know of one ninja ever permanently blinded in the manga by an attack, and that was Human Path.




Bkprince33 said:


> sasuke now has a general idea off what he is dealing with and will opt ot to engage raikage in cqc seeing as he fought his son and experienced first hand how that turned out.



What's his strategy again?  Why would he NOT use Susanoo at the beginning during the blitz?  What's giving him this knowledge that the Sandaime is a much more powerful CQC fighter than his son and that Susanoo will be inefficient?  

When has Sauce EVER immediately took the skies and used Amaterasu to win a fight?  He didn't do that to Kakashi and company, B, etc.  The only case I can think of is Danzo, but he still opted to use CQC and Susanoo beforehand.


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## Bkprince33 (Mar 6, 2013)

kresh said:


> You make it seem like Sasuke would refrain from going into CQC with him and also not use his Susanoo/Enton combo.  Evasion while spreading Amaterasu has never been an opener for Sasuke.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sasuke now has a idea of what he's dealing with, before sasuke had no knowledge on his opponent and had to test the waters, not to mention at the kage summit he was intent on saving chakra because his main objective was danzo, so he wouldnt use ammy unless he was pushed in that scenario, in this scenerio there is no need to conserve and he also has a idea of what he's up against.

Hell blitz sauce and sauce will dodge everything, also susano can save him from anything bar nukite.


Because He notice he is not as fast as his son, and will likely attempt a ammy or genjutsu, before using susano, the distance plays in sasuke favor.



I never said he will use ammy and take to the skies, i simply say he will use ammy, and if it connects the raikage wont be able to see perfectly so he either dodged or just watches the raikage burn to a crisp, not to mention genjutsu can get the job done as well.


Itachi was worrying about ammy burning sasukes eyes, not to mention sasuke can use enton and make it cover his eyes,if some how he can still see then genjutsu ends the match.


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## Krippy (Mar 7, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> And he has never gotten on his hawk and just stay away from his opponent. So OOC.


because he's never needed to avoid his oppenent, now that I think about it, he should have enough stamina to avoid Sandaime or genjutsu him before he's reduce to ashes, so arguing about this is pointless



> Pardon? FRS could not hurt Sandaime. A giant fuuton broke through Level 3 Susano. FRS is superior to that, so FRS can very well break Level 4 Susano and can break through anything lower. Nukite is far superior. So if FRS might be able to break through Level 4 Susano, then Nukite (which is far superior) definitely can.


Nope, his fuuton amplified by his summon opened a hole in the weakest area of his complete susanoo, it didn't "break" through anything

and you saying a nukite is "far superior" without any calcs or proof doesn't amount to shit


> That was EMS Sasuke. Could have sworn MS Sasuke was being discussed.


I could have sworn he can put up his full susanoo near instantly since he mastered the technique


> Something he does in canon. Which is not sit on his hawk in the sky and chill.


such as?


> Yes. The scans that do not exist SHOWING Sasuke doing this. And the fact that the OP says this is an IC match up. That's my proof. Where is your proof that Sasuke does this in the canon? He never has hence your failure. Kirin has nothing to do with that. You linked two unrelated ideas. Debating 101 dude.


So please explain what he would do in a situation where he needs to create distance from his oppenent? 

all he needs to do is run or paralyze him while sandaime burns to ash, his hawk isn't really needed here, im conceding this point as you haven't showed an alternative and sandaime shouldn't be alive long enough to harm Sasuke once he's been lit up


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## Doge (Mar 7, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> Sasuke now has a idea of what he's dealing with, before sasuke had no knowledge on his opponent and had to test the waters, not to mention at the kage summit he was intent on saving chakra because his main objective was danzo, so he wouldnt use ammy unless he was pushed in that scenario, in this scenerio there is no need to conserve and he also has a idea of what he's up against.



So he's not going to immediately go Susanoo considering that's what he did after "testing the waters" against the Raikage?  He was only using ribcage Susanoo against Ei and he made it clear he wasn't conserving chakra when he went ahead and amped his Susanoo up to the next version.

Sasuke has no idea what exactly Sandaime's arsenal is.  Susanoo was clearly working fairly well against Ei, so why wouldn't he start off with it with its full power?  

There is nothing indicating Sauce would play the evasion game and immediately take flight.



Bkprince33 said:


> Hell blitz sauce and sauce will dodge everything, also susano can save him from anything bar nukite.



That sounds like a good way to get hurt by Black Lightning Shroud.  And what exactly would Raikage use except Nukite?



Bkprince33 said:


> Because He notice he is not as fast as his son, and will likely attempt a ammy or genjutsu, before using susano, the distance plays in sasuke favor.



What kind of genjutsu would do anything for Sauce here?  Sandaime's no pansy like C, Sauce clearly has limited genjutsu prowess, and he's always been inclined to use ninjutsu first.  

I'm going to stick with my argument that Sasuke will think his Susanoo is strong enough.  He obviously remembers how the incomplete version held up in the kage summit.



Bkprince33 said:


> I never said he will use ammy and take to the skies, i simply say he will use ammy, and if it connects the raikage wont be able to see perfectly so he either dodged or just watches the raikage burn to a crisp, not to mention genjutsu can get the job done as well.



Amaterasu has never blinded someone so much that they can't see well.  No reason Raikage wouldn't react completely to it or just tilt his head in reaction.  Sight preserved.

Genjutsu is nigh useless here.  The best he's ever done was make C pass out, and he's no Sandaime Raikage.



Bkprince33 said:


> Itachi was worrying about ammy burning sasukes eyes, not to mention sasuke can use enton and make it cover his eyes,if some how he can still see then genjutsu ends the match.



I'm wondering why FRS never blinded Raikage.  Or why Karin didn't go blind from it.  And since when has Enton ever been used to burn someone's eyes?  That sounds completely out of character.  Kishi's practically made a note in the manga that no one but Itachi's kunais ever goes for the throat or eyes.


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## Johnny Kage (Mar 8, 2013)

Sasuke have little chance in taijutsu combat, but theres are some alternatives for winning:

-Paralize Raikage with a gensutsu for a few seconds and stab his scar with his chidori kusanagi.

-Susanoo grabs Raikage then Sasuke amaterasu him

-Susanoo arrow in the scar

-Complete Susanoo holds Raikage in the hand then pierces his scar with amateratsu blade

No way Raikage can break complete Susanoo defenses


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## Bkprince33 (Mar 8, 2013)

kresh said:


> So he's not going to immediately go Susanoo considering that's what he did after "testing the waters" against the Raikage?  He was only using ribcage Susanoo against Ei and he made it clear he wasn't conserving chakra when he went ahead and amped his Susanoo up to the next version.
> 
> Sasuke has no idea what exactly Sandaime's arsenal is.  Susanoo was clearly working fairly well against Ei, so why wouldn't he start off with it with its full power?
> 
> ...



Even if sasuke ops, for ribcage susano first like you suggest, raikage won't instantly go for a nukite, if anything sasuke will notice raikage is stronger then his son but not as fast, he will likley then op for genjutsu and ammy.


He was pushed to use the next version, he was confronted by garra, raikage, temari, kunkuro, darui, so of course he would up the power, and even then he used it only to collapse the building and go Chase after danzo.


That's fine he will be able to test the waters with susano and gain even more knowledge as the raikage won't op for nukite right away.

Sasuke has use genjutsu to win a lot of his fights, orochimaru, danzo, diedara, c , etc, just because he can't ohko ppl like itachi can doesn't make it useless, if raikage is lit on fire sasuke can cast a genjutsu and make raikage think he's chasing sasuke, then its pretty much gg, not to mention genjutsu ignores physical durability.

Because we never seened someone get hit with amatarasu and keep fighting, but its pretty much common sense, do you really believe a black flame covering your face wouldn't obscure your vision in anyway shape or form?


Frs doesn't stay on the Target for 7 days, I think your misunderstanding what I'm saying
I'm not saying ammy will blind him on impact, I'm saying the fire will stay on him and the fire will obscure his vision, also I'm not saying sasuke will only cover his eyes with enton, but he will use it to cover his whole entire body, face included.


It's not like its sasuke plan to ammy then evade, but he will be forced to when the raikage keeps chasing him covered in black fire.


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## WT (Mar 8, 2013)

Why are people debating this? 

Sasuke is Naruto's rival and Naruto's clone destroyed the 3rd Raikage.

Against Sasuke, he'll be overwhelmed.


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## Stermor (Mar 8, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Why are people debating this?
> 
> Sasuke is Naruto's rival and Naruto's clone destroyed the 3rd Raikage.
> 
> Against Sasuke, he'll be overwhelmed.



pretty much because naruto clone would demolish sasuke casually at this point aswell


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## WT (Mar 8, 2013)

Stermor said:


> pretty much because naruto clone would demolish sasuke casually at this point aswell



You really think? From Kishi's perspective do you really think that will ever be allowed to happen? 

From Kishi's perspective, do you really think the 3rd Raikage will be able to defeat Sasuke? 

Hell no.

Third Raikage's feat is comparable to Sasori's. The third withstood an entire army, Sasori conquered an entire nation. 

Sasuke is on a whole different league to both of them.


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## Stermor (Mar 8, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> You really think? From Kishi's perspective do you really think that will ever be allowed to happen?
> 
> From Kishi's perspective, do you really think the 3rd Raikage will be able to defeat Sasuke?
> 
> ...



i wouldn't even be suprised that in the end naruto would casually bat sasuke away.. and finally understand sasuke is a prick and kill him.. with orochimaru beeing final boss.

actually i don't see why not ?? he pretty much had his son defeat him aswell (barring that he would have lost a leg and a hand).. 

sasuke has been helped in every battle after the first(naruto and gang) in shippuuden.. he never managed to destroy(as in defeat them without getting hurt) anyone.. he always had to have help.. 

if the fight had happened with the sandaime, tobi would probebly have shown up at the last minute and saved sasuke.. 

sasuke is not really in a different leaque he is just going up against the big boys and scraping by on all his fights.. out of their leaque would imply he could defeat them without much trouble.. and he hasn't ever been able of killing a kage without help.. 

also the raikage feats you mention is pretty much only used to describe his enormous stamina (because of timeframe).. anything else we don't know..


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## joshhookway (Mar 8, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> You really think? From Kishi's perspective do you really think that will ever be allowed to happen?
> 
> From Kishi's perspective, do you really think the 3rd Raikage will be able to defeat Sasuke?
> 
> ...



This is not Naruto manga, this is battledome, where feats matter. By feats, Naruto's clone would savagely rape Sasuke.


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## Ben B (Mar 8, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> You really think? From Kishi's perspective do you really think that will ever be allowed to happen?
> 
> From Kishi's perspective, do you really think the 3rd Raikage will be able to defeat Sasuke?
> 
> ...



Err we all know Naruto is likely going to be the most powerful character in the end of the manga (perhaps barring so6p) so is there any point to Naruto vs threads? We are talking about Sasukes abilities/feats so far as been seen in the manga Vs the same for 3rd raikage.


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## Shichibukai (Mar 8, 2013)

iJutsu said:


> Now which MS Sasuke is this? If it's the same as kage summit, he gets torn in half before he develops anything.
> 
> Pre-blind might last longer, but *he never did get full armor susanoo*. So raikage breaks his susanoo and nukes him. His arrows aren't coated with lightning chakra so he won't really hurt him. If he summons full, he goes completely blind and gets raped instantly.


Yeah he did. He got it in his fight with Danzo and later inherited the sacred weapons from Itachi in his fight with Kakashi.


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