# Shanks vs Prime Rayleigh



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 8, 2017)




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## DoctorLaw (Dec 8, 2017)

One armed shanks gets high diffed, both hands and it’s extreme diff either way. I want to say Rayleigh though. If Roger was superior to a monster like WB, his crew must’ve been very strong


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## Deleted member 211714 (Dec 8, 2017)

Shanks defeats him with high-diff at most. I don't see Rayleigh's CoC being stronger, and there are at least a few things pointing at Shanks' CoC being stronger. Shanks also used to have regular duels with the strongest person in pure swordsmanship, which means he is likely more skilled than Rayleigh. Even with a single arm, Shanks is physically stronger than Whitebeard, so that's another thing going for him. He managed to get by multiple top-tier characters during a moment of silence at Marineford. That's either a speed feat unlike any other or CoO beyond what we've seen. I can't think of anything that might give Rayleigh the advantage over Shanks.

Not sure why people think Rayleigh is either his equal or stronger. Unlike Rayleigh, Shanks is considered a natural leader and has more relevance in the plot on many levels.

Reactions: Like 3 | Dislike 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 8, 2017)

DoctorLaw said:


> If Roger was superior to a monster like WB


he wasnt

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ruse (Dec 8, 2017)

Prime ray > mid gen  

He high diffs Shanks

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## DoctorLaw (Dec 8, 2017)

Weiss said:


> he wasnt



If Roger was superior or equal to a monster like WB


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## Nox (Dec 8, 2017)

Rayleigh.



King Itachi said:


> Shanks defeats him with high-diff at most. I don't see Rayleigh's CoC being stronger, and there are at least a few things pointing at Shanks' CoC being stronger. Shanks also used to have regular duels with the strongest person in pure swordsmanship, *which means he is likely more skilled than Rayleigh.* Even with a single arm, Shanks is physically stronger than Whitebeard, so that's another thing going for him. He managed to get by multiple top-tier characters during a moment of silence at Marineford. That's either a speed feat unlike any other or CoO beyond what we've seen. I can't think of anything that might give Rayleigh the advantage over Shanks.
> 
> Not sure why people think Rayleigh is either his equal or stronger. Unlike Rayleigh, Shanks is considered a natural leader and has more relevance in the plot on many levels.



Fan Fiction Express.

Its implied Ray was threat/legend of Old WB status. Meanwhile Shanks (*C434*) was bringing drinks to Old WB and acknowledging his superiority. How you got he's physically stronger than WB is beyond me. Old generation surpassing the new isn't solely character strength. For one Roger's era lacked quantity (Roger, WB, Shiki Pirates) but had quality. The next era has had 4 Yonkos, Warlords, other powerful pirates & independents (Revs). You mean the skill Shank's hasn't experienced in 12 years? From the pure swordsmanship WSS Mihawk who Vista matched. Yeah Rayleigh is going toAn old Rayleigh with 22 years worth of rust held Admiral at bay. The whole relevance to the plot angle might work on his generation but the old gen snatches his wig. Prime Shiki, WB, Garp who had less relevance have been implied >> him. A natural leader? Rayleigh had the traits of a Conquerors and merely ran with Roger. Yet, even then his reputation was of Dark King.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Katou (Dec 8, 2017)

if Shanks is somehow WB level... 
then...
WB > Rogers 
WB > Roger crew
Shanks = WB 

at least Shanks would win Mid-High Difficulty


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## DA hawk (Dec 8, 2017)

I don't think the difference between Roger and Rayleigh was miniscule, neither the difference between current yonkou/admirals and PK lvl big, which is why I think prime Rayleigh would extreme diff one of the C3. 
So could go either way

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Tenma (Dec 8, 2017)

Ray slaps the shit out of his cabin boy like the good old times

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 8, 2017)

which one of them is a bigger haki god ?


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## Geralt-Singh (Dec 8, 2017)

Prime Ray high to extreme diff


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## Gohara (Dec 8, 2017)

Shanks wins in my opinion.  I can't think of anything that suggests Prime Rayleigh to be superior to Shanks.  Being a Pirate King's First Mate makes him exceptional amongst First Mates, it doesn't suggest anything about the Yonkou.  Whitebeard's character and Rayleigh both being referred to as legends is one of the reasons that I see suggested sometimes but it's not like being legends automatically makes all legends equal in skills.

Besides that would imply that Prime Rayleigh is basically equal to Roger, and so far there is no evidence of that.  We have yet to see any First Mates being around the same level as Captains except for Luffy and Zoro prior to The Water 7/Enies Lobby Arc, and since that Arc Luffy has been a level superior to Zoro.  I also doubt that Zoro in the main Arc will be able to put up more than around mid to high difficulty against Luffy.  Even if we assume that Prime Rayleigh can put up mid to high difficulty against Roger which is speculative there's no reason that would automatically make Prime Rayleigh superior to Shanks.

To be fair, the idea of Shanks being > Prime Rayleigh does involve some speculation as well although I would argue less so than Prime Rayleigh being > Shanks.  With Shanks, he seems to have the role of a character who Blackbeard will match up against, and at that point Blackbeard will likely be at least around Roger's level if not somewhat superior.  Unless Oda has that match up several Arcs prior to the main Arc and/or unless Blackbeard achieves more skills as he matches up against Luffy.  Neither of which are unreasonable possibilities but they seem unlikely.

Furthermore Shanks is Luffy's benchmark to surpass to become Pirate King level.  Which suggests that Shanks can reasonably be Pirate King level in his character's own right or at least slightly inferior to it.  Shanks' swordsmanship skills are also likely superior to Rayleigh's considering that they seem to be around the same level as Mihawk's, and so far Shanks has the 1st and 3rd most impressive Haki feats in the series.  Again though who wins between those characters is partially speculative so I respect the opinion that Prime Rayleigh might win that match up.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Dec 8, 2017)

Maybe Prime Rayleigh. He might have been Old WB tier


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## savior2005 (Dec 8, 2017)

Either way, extreme diff. I know Shanks didn't surpass his captain, but I think, at the very least, He became equal to his captain's FM.
And while Prime Roger/ WB/ Garp were > all the MID gen top tiers, idt ppl like Prime Ray/Shiki/Sengoku were> ALL mid gen top tiers (they were equal to them imo).

Its fucking stupid to have EVERY old gen top tier as stronger than ALL mid gen top tiers. Only Roger/WB/Garp should be decisively stronger than them. The other top tiers are fine, imo as being equal to current top tiers (and above some like Big Mom/Fuji)

In fact, I consider Shiki to be Roger's generation version of Kaido.


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## Sherlōck (Dec 9, 2017)

I like how people put Rayleigh above all the mid gen top tiers. I do think it's pure shit tbh. 

Nonetheless either way extreme difficulty. Leaning towards Luffy's goal & better COtC user Shanks.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Katou (Dec 9, 2017)

to be fair..we don't clearly know how strong Prime Rayleigh is... what we know is he's just below Rogers 
but then again..who's to say that crew mates shouldn't be stronger than his captain .. its never been done before..or is it?


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## Yuki (Dec 9, 2017)

Either way.


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## Katou (Dec 9, 2017)

for all i know ( just predicting ) 
Drake is secretly powering up to overthrow Kaidou ... 
then voila ... Crew kicks away captain

Blackbeard style ... ( but his was different )


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## Kai (Dec 9, 2017)

Shanks.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 9, 2017)

Going with Prime Rayleigh very high - extreme diff.


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## Canute87 (Dec 9, 2017)

I'd give it to prime rayeligh.


Shanks lost his arm and had to settle for  yonkou.


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## Canute87 (Dec 9, 2017)

Wallachia said:


> to be fair..we don't clearly know how strong Prime Rayleigh is... what we know is he's just below Rogers
> but then again..who's to say that crew mates shouldn't be stronger than his captain .. its never been done before..or is it?



Roger was stronger than rayleigh.

We simply don't know how much.


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## Kylo Ren (Dec 9, 2017)

can go either way with extreme diff.


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## MYJC (Dec 9, 2017)

I'd lean slightly toward Shanks, but honestly there aren't enough feats from either to make a good case.


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## Muah (Dec 9, 2017)

Sbanks wins hifh diff.


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 10, 2017)

NOX said:


> Its implied Ray was threat/legend of Old WB status. Meanwhile Shanks (*C434*) was bringing drinks to Old WB and acknowledging his superiority. How you got he's physically stronger than WB is beyond me. Old generation surpassing the new isn't solely character strength. For one Roger's era lacked quantity (Roger, WB, Shiki Pirates) but had quality. The next era has had 4 Yonkos, Warlords, other powerful pirates & independents (Revs). You mean the skill Shank's hasn't experienced in 12 years? From the pure swordsmanship WSS Mihawk who Vista matched. Yeah Rayleigh is going toAn old Rayleigh with 22 years worth of rust held Admiral at bay. The whole relevance to the plot angle might work on his generation but the old gen snatches his wig. Prime Shiki, WB, Garp who had less relevance have been implied >> him. A natural leader? Rayleigh had the traits of a Conquerors and merely ran with Roger. Yet, even then his reputation was of Dark King.


How did Shanks acknowledge WB's superiority when he went to meet him?

-He made threatening actions according to WB himself with his haki.
-Disrespected WB by asking Marco to join him in front of WB.
-Pulled out his sword while surrounded by WB's whole crew and clashed evenly with WB.

You should really take off those nostalgia goggles. The only ones highlighted as exceptional from the old era were WB, Roger, Garp and Shiki.

Not only that but Roger and WB were recognised as strongest because they had the strength to conquer the grandline ie beat the Yonkou. There is no evidence that Rayleigh is on that level or he would have been spoken as such.


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## Nox (Dec 10, 2017)

Seraphoenix said:


> How did Shanks acknowledge WB's superiority when he went to meet him?
> 
> -He made threatening actions according to WB himself with his haki.
> -Disrespected WB by asking Marco to join him in front of WB.
> ...



The value of Raleigh's character lies in whether you consider Garp to be a fraud. Its he who first highlighted Rayleigh's status. Which Kizaru upon first crossing blades reaffirms. In *C434* Shanks meet with Old WB and informs him BB had been bidding his time and finally gained power and is aiming for top (Yonko). To which he add he would claim *WB's position too*. WB's position as Yonko was that of man closest to OP / strongest pirate / WSM. We can change top to PK and point remains. 

Admirals acknowledged WB as WSM but it didn't stop them from acting in their typical manner. Read the chapter. Shanks released haki and as soon as he was before WB he was explaining himself. Diffuses the tense situation by jokingly asking Marco (who had been bitching) to join his crew. WB called him a fool and tossed his sake at him. Shank's is not Mihawk he stands up and takes displeasure at the gesture and WB's stubbornness (regarding Ace). WB Pirates look on unfazed as they understand his character is not one reckless to attack. This is reaffirmed by Yasopp saying Shank's promised not to start a war.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Dec 10, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> I like how people put Rayleigh above all the mid gen top tiers. I do think it's pure shit tbh.
> 
> Nonetheless either way extreme difficulty. Leaning towards Luffy's goal & better COtC user Shanks.



Yeah I'd go for this.


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## Gohara (Dec 10, 2017)

NOX said:


> The value of Raleigh's character lies in whether you consider Garp to be a fraud.



But Garp didn't say that Whitebeard's and Rayleigh's characters are equal, just that both are legends and I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with the idea that Rayleigh is a legend.


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 11, 2017)

NOX said:


> The value of Raleigh's character lies in whether you consider Garp to be a fraud. Its he who first highlighted Rayleigh's status. Which Kizaru upon first crossing blades reaffirms. In *C434* Shanks meet with Old WB and informs him BB had been bidding his time and finally gained power and is aiming for top (Yonko). To which he add he would claim *WB's position too*. WB's position as Yonko was that of man closest to OP / strongest pirate / WSM. We can change top to PK and point remains.


 
He said he is a legend like WB and given that he was the FM of the PK of course he would be considered a legend. However, no one has ever put him on the same battle strength level as Roger and WB. Your Garp fraud statement is a weak attempt at a false equivalence. It's only relevant if you are asserting that Garp is saying he is the same level in terms of strength as WB. Which we know is untrue given that Garp called WB ruler of the seas.

Shanks says Teech will aim for the top and try and take WB's seat as Yonkou, which he did after he died. Nowhere does Shanks admit inferiority. There you are better off using his encounter with Ace.




NOX said:


> Admirals acknowledged WB as WSM but it didn't stop them from acting in their typical manner. Read the chapter. Shanks released haki and as soon as he was before WB he was explaining himself. Diffuses the tense situation by jokingly asking Marco (who had been bitching) to join his crew. WB called him a fool and tossed his sake at him. Shank's is not Mihawk he stands up and takes displeasure at the gesture and WB's stubbornness (regarding Ace). WB Pirates look on unfazed as they understand his character is not one reckless to attack. This is reaffirmed by Yasopp saying Shank's promised not to start a war.


 Explaining himself? You're trying to paint some picture like he was terrified and tried to appease WB out of fear. He literally says ''You'll have to excuse me, I have trouble staying relaxed on an enemy ship'' while smiling. WB himself views it as a threat when he says ''Yet you bare your haki power with no restraint''. 

Diffusing the situation is your own interpretation. I think he was serious as Marco was the only one besides WB not intimidated by the haki.


''*WB Pirates look on unfazed as they understand his character is not one reckless to attack'*' Nope. ''*What did that Redhead do to the Old man*'' and then Marco had to calm them down. You even see in the background some of them drawing their swords.

In any event if he thought he was that inferior he wouldn't have drawn his sword as a challenge, while surrounded by WB's whole crew.


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