# Solid Snake and Big Boss vs Captain America and Batman



## Dudebro (Aug 25, 2014)

Exactly what it says in the title.
Scenario 1: No weapons. No shield. CQC Tag Team Match to the death. lol
Scenario 2: All standard equipment for everybody.


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 25, 2014)

Which Batman or Captain America?


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## Dudebro (Aug 25, 2014)

New 52 bats and 616 Cap.


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## Dudebro (Aug 25, 2014)

Bump. I know some of you are looking at this and that some of you are fans of all the above or have general knowledge. Don't be lazy....lol...Who the hell am I talking to?


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## AngryHeretic (Aug 25, 2014)

You really don't need to bump 11 minutes after the last post...


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## creative (Aug 25, 2014)

I love how all the ODB fiends are parked up on dudebro's thread like a pack of hyena's poised to pounce on some sweet zebra ass.


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## Regicide (Aug 25, 2014)

Is Batman even a factor here without prep?


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## Dudebro (Aug 25, 2014)

I know. I was really bored and had nothing to do at the moment or all day for that matter. Boredom tends to cloud judgement. Thoughts?

Oh and to Creative...What?...I don't follow...


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## AngryHeretic (Aug 25, 2014)

I love sweet zebra ass. No zoo

Yeah I'm thinking Big Boss could probably solo this if he's in his peak. Dunno how solid snake compares to him but I'm thinking he can solo as well, just with a bit mote difficulty.


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 25, 2014)

Okay can I get a few stats on the MG guys? Been a while.

Like speed, durability and strength.


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## Regicide (Aug 25, 2014)

Danger Doom said:


> Okay can I get a few stats on the MG guys? Been a while.
> 
> Like speed, durability and strength.


Last I checked?

Massively hypersonic speed, multi-cityblock level DC and durability.


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 25, 2014)

Then in no means are they soloing or Stomping this. Cap alone will give them problems.


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## AngryHeretic (Aug 26, 2014)

They won't stomp, I never suggested either of them would.

However, I think at least Big Boss could solo. Cap will give him problems, but if he's going all-out then Batman will be a non-factor and he'll be disposed of quick. That leaves BB vs Cap, which won't be an easy fight but I also don't see Cap winning it.


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 26, 2014)

Batman stats isn't  below Capt either just a Fyi, Capt may be superior in certain areas but Batman has his strengths.


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## Dudebro (Aug 26, 2014)

It appears that I overestimated Batman. Figured him to be at least close to Cap level even with the recent upgrades. Where does Batman rank statwise if he isn't comparable to these guys?


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 26, 2014)

Capt has a slight strength advantage over batman. Batman can bench 1 ton effortlessly while Cap is at 1.3 tons.
Cap has stamina and durability over Bruce but Bruce isn't no slouch.
Bruce is slightly more agile than Cap 
Bruce is a more skilled fighter than Capt but not by much.
Bruce is slightly faster than Cap, while cap can see bullet due to super sight that helps him with his billet timing. Capt mostly relies on reflexes to block with shield while Bruce has to be able to react and dodge in a  run and gun  fashion.
Bruce is a better tactician

To be honest I don't see MG CQC standing up to Bats and Capt Pressure point attacks.


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## AngryHeretic (Aug 26, 2014)

Those stats are impressive, but considering that both Snake and Big Boss are hypersonic, and Big Boss has the strength to lift dozens if not hundreds of tons (and the durability to withstand that much weight slamming down on him), I doubt either of them could survive a punch from him. 

Cap lasts longer than Batman because of his stamina and shield, but I doubt he'll last long before BB finds a way around his shield and finishes him.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 26, 2014)

Danger Doom said:


> Capt has a slight strength advantage over batman. Batman can bench 1 ton effortlessly while Cap is at 1.3 tons.
> Cap has stamina and durability over Bruce but Bruce isn't no slouch.
> Bruce is slightly more agile than Cap
> Bruce is a more skilled fighter than Capt but not by much.
> ...



This really doesn't compare to MHS speeds and enough strength to bench a Metal Gear . CQC uses a lot of grappling too so it'll be quite hard for them to do something as precise as attacking pressure points


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## NightmareCinema (Aug 26, 2014)

And Big Boss can stop a mobile fortress from crushing him.

With just pure physical strength.

[YOUTUBE]fvgdroygATk[/YOUTUBE]

Like so. Skip to ~10:14


Big Boss can also stop Metal Gear ZEKE from literally stomping him during the final battle in Peace Walker.

[YOUTUBE]7WnUZfZRfUg[/YOUTUBE]

Like this. Around ~4:41

Both are Action Commands so they're legit. 


And guess what. Solid Snake could match his dad there, and has actually defeated his dad in combat.

So what's your point if Batman and Cap can press 1 ton or so?

Bats is a non-factor here in a straight-out HtH fight. Cap is the only one who stands a chance against the father-and-son team.

With equipment, that's where Batman shines.


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## creative (Aug 26, 2014)

what does BB have in his arsenal (outside of metal gear and nuclear warfare) that hurts comparatively as much as the captain's shield?


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## AngryHeretic (Aug 26, 2014)

Fuck, Nightmare beat me to that second video. Ah well, the point is made regardless.

Not sure it matters, Cap doesn't strike me as being durable enough to tank a hit from his own shield at full strength, especially if it hit him in a vital spot. And you can bet BB or Snake would be aiming for a vital spot.

Either way, BB does have rocket launchers that have damaged Metal Gears, as well as his physical strength which (going by the feats above) should give him striking power that's potentially more damaging than his firearms themselves.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 26, 2014)

And of course Snake has a Railgun and some other odd equipment.


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## NightmareCinema (Aug 26, 2014)

I doubt Snake and Big Boss's equipment will be effective against Cap's shield...

The shield can take hits from THOR of all people. Come on.

Even without it, Cap is still a very solid martial artist so the Father-and-Son team is going to have their work cut out for them.


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## Dudebro (Aug 26, 2014)

From the looks of it team 2's only hope may be Batman's gadgets. Anything he has that may be of use against team one since there is no way a standard batarang is going to help.

Off topic: Musubi what the hell is your sig? That's badass incarnate on some Chuck Norris shit.


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## NightmareCinema (Aug 26, 2014)

In case anyone's wondering about where the MHS speed for Metal Gear comes from. Volgin's lightning and Ocelot's reaction to it.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 26, 2014)

Dudebro said:


> Off topic: Musubi what the hell is your sig? That's badass incarnate on some Chuck Norris shit.



Takamura makes Chuck Norris look like a joke. Go read/watch Hajime no Ippo and cure yourself of your ignorance (seriously it's really fucking good). My sig is from the time he punched out a bear.


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## OneDangGo (Aug 29, 2014)

Either Batman or Captain America can solo.  Big Boss holding up Coccoon is a gameplay mechanic, earlier he couldn't even break a pair of chains when Strangelove was interrogating him.

But I forgot how moronic this forum can be.

Snake dodged a rail gun? Wow....try a lightning bolt.  



Pre 52 Batman canon still exist btw.

And considering how bad Batman beat the hell out of the Super Gladiator who was strong to enough to hurt Superman, his standard punches will end up taking Big Boss and Snake's heads clean off their shoulders



It's pretty obvious that no one here reads comic books, or plays Metal Gear for that matter given how bad Big Boss got his stool pushed in by Volgin.

Uneducated spite thread.  No wonder OBD is considered the special ed class of the internet.


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## Regicide (Aug 29, 2014)




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## Byrd (Aug 29, 2014)

> how bad Big Boss got his stool pushed in by Volgin.



You clearly haven't played the game


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## OneDangGo (Aug 29, 2014)

Byrd said:


> You clearly haven't played the game


Yeah I did actually and have the trophies from the Legacy Collection to prove it.  Chances are you'll say that Big Boss was weakened even though all that happened was him getting flipped on his back and getting put in a hold for a few seconds, if that put him in such rough shape than he still looks like a giant quivering vagina.

It doesn't matter, beating Volgin is nothing to be proud of, especially since I just showed Batman beating a multi million tonner.  Guess the dumbass who made this thread didn't do his research, but than again this is the special ed class of the internet.


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## Dudebro (Aug 29, 2014)

Dodge lightning? cool story bro. Apparently you missed the part where Revolver Ocelot emptied six revolver rounds into a lightning bolt that was fired at him before it even got more than halfway into his direction. Big Boss gets scaled to him and so does Snake.

Also how is a QTE a game Mechanic?


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## Qinglong (Aug 29, 2014)

OneDangGo said:


> Pre 52 Batman canon still exist btw.





Dudebro said:


> New 52 bats and 616 Cap.




Try again **


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## Dudebro (Aug 29, 2014)

OneDangGo said:


> I just showed Batman beating a multi million tonner.



If you can't see whats wrong with this you don't need to be debating here...


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## willyvereb (Aug 29, 2014)

Danger Doom said:


> Capt has a slight strength advantage over batman. Batman can bench 1 ton effortlessly while Cap is at 1.3 tons.
> Cap has stamina and durability over Bruce but Bruce isn't no slouch.
> Bruce is slightly more agile than Cap
> Bruce is a more skilled fighter than Capt but not by much.
> ...


Yeah, your entire compaison is just a big baloon of hot air filled with your personal opinions and only minimal amount of facts.
Facts which are kinda weak to begin with.
Comic book "official" stats are known to be a bull and a considerable underselling compared to what the characters can do.

Captain America is a fairly good street leveler thus he's powerscaleable to have massive hypersonic reactions and close combat speed.
One of Captain America's earliest feats have his shield throw sending a giant rock flying, a feat which requires dozens of megajoules of energy.
More powerful than a tank gun and roughly comaprable to Big Boss' Cocoon-benching feat.
Though both Caps and Snake/BB are scaleable for even higher level sof durability and DC.
They're roughly comparable, all 3 of them sitting in the city block to multi city block level DC/durability via powerscaling
As for Batman, I'm not that familiar with DC but based on Richard Dragon's laser timing feat, Post-Crysis Bats prior to the reboot should had relativistic reactions.
DC-wise there aren't so many crazy showings for "street levelers" so he's about wall to building level in destructive capacity and durability.
But well, this is Batman from the NU52 reboot.
Well, I read even less of those comics so I can't say much but if Batman is anywhere close to Slade he's building to large building level in durability/DC and has low hypersonic combat speed.
Not bad but that makes him terribly outclassed against anyone else in this match.

Issues of fighting skill tactics and such come only after the bare essentials in stats actually match.
In Batman's case unless he has some feats I'm not currently aware off, he's essentially a non-factor.
He'd immediately get capped by a random MHS bullet from the Metal Gear side.


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 29, 2014)

Hilarious thread reading through posts. Anyway MGS side has things like old snake in his exoskeleton bullet timing Gatling fire, Null deflecting bullets with his machetes(well parts of Portal OPs are non canon as to Kojima but which parts are'nt specified so eh), fodder of MGS being made from nanotech/Big Boss genetics stated to be low superhuman, Big Boss resisting torture by Volgin, Old man Snake surviving through microwaves albeit barely while suffering from aging, Raiden fending off multiple RAYs with his Bazooka, Solidus in his exoskeleton deflecting machine gun fire and taking out RAYs, The Boss holding up a case of Bazooka one handed, an elite mook carrying a turret in hand etc. There is also Liquid's durability feats but those seem exclusive to his willpower/stubborness as he survived falling off 40-100 feet which would kill even Snake and then survived some insane damage that nothing barring a Cyborg or such would survive(he only died because of the virus).

EDIT Not sure how canon Twin Snakes is but if that counts then Solid Snake has that speed feat with a missile as well.

Both sides should be double digits hypersonic. And going of feats in cutcenes, statements and powerscaling on the MGS side this could be balanced. Solid Snake is'nt going to win against Steve Rogers but Prime Big Boss should be comparable(Snake fought Big Boss when he was old, replaced hand with bionic one, lost muscle mass in his coma, had a shrapnel possibly still in his head and other nerfs and even then he needed a do it yourself flamethrower FTW). It comes down to how much Batman can carry his own load, he carries tech and wears armor of varying levels, standard equipment is vague outside the same 2-5 things he carries every comic plus the many other things in his belt and such. Batman could be the wild card.

Captain America could fight any of the mid tiers of MGS but lose to the top tiers that have Armstrong, Cyborg Raiden, Cyborg Grey Fox, MGS 4 Vamp, Samuel, Monsoon, Mistral and such. Batman could take some mid tiers too I suppose. 

This should be balanced enough a fight that both sides could take some wins and losses per exchange.


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## Atem (Aug 29, 2014)

Batman as of New 52 is a bullet-timer, rocket launcher proof, and that sort of thing. In terms of strength, Batman can break through reinforced steel gates and concrete easily. On top of being an extremely proficient martial artist. There's also outrunning explosions. 

The best example of that would be in Batman #11 where as he was fighting Owlman he was at ground zero of an explosion. That he then proceeded to run away from.


*Spoiler*: __ 













Batman is outmatched in terms of strength though. Sure, Bruce can easily beat people injected with venom like with Ragdoll in Batman: Dark Knight #1 but that's nothing compared to lifting Metal Gears.

However, Batman's stealth ability is far superior to either sides. As Batman can and has used the disappearing trick on Superman of all people.

Batman #20



There's also various suits that Batman has access to such as this stealth suit that can hide him from Superman's vision.


*Spoiler*: __ 








Taken from Batman and Robin #33









As well as the Hellbat suit which is probably Batman's most powerful suit. Since it was made by the combined efforts of Superman, Cyborg, the Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern, and Wonder Woman. It was made to deal with large-scale threats. Such as Darkseid.

Doubt that's a part of Batman's standard equipment though. The stealth suit probably is though.


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 29, 2014)

Yeah the Hellbat suit was forged by Superman inside the Sun and the other Justice League members like Flash, WW, Lantern and Aquaman helped too. That should be banned here but it's not standard equipment as said. He does have an invisibility suit that even Superman cannot see through due to Superman helping him make it, not sure if that's allowed here(don't think it counts as standard equipment).

It's the reason I said Batman could be the wildcard here depending on his tech/equipment.


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## willyvereb (Aug 29, 2014)

Batman's stealth is actually nothing special for the Metal Gear verse.
We're talking about people who can seemingly disappear on broad daylight and use cardboard boxes as legitimate infiltration tool.
Both Big Boss and Snake are also in possession of Stealth Camo.
As for locating stealthed Bats their regular Soliton Radar would be more than enough.
That thing can sense people and accurately locate their position based on their bioelectric/biomagnetic field and during Peace Walker the still prototype Soliton Radar even worked against ghosts (Ghost Photography mission).
So yeah.


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## Atem (Aug 29, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> Batman's stealth is actually nothing special for the Metal Gear verse.
> We're talking about people *who can seemingly disappear on broad daylight *and use cardboard boxes as legitimate infiltration tool.



Batman does that too, and against Superman. Who not only can see on every electromagnetic spectrum but also has microscopic/telescopic vision on top of super hearing as well. 

Batman could do what they do but without the mighty cardboard box, and not getting caught like at all.



> Both Big Boss and Snake are also in possession of Stealth Camo.
> As for locating stealthed Bats their regular Soliton Radar would be more than enough.
> 
> That thing can sense people and accurately locate their position based on their bioelectric/biomagnetic field and during Peace Walker the still prototype Soliton Radar *even worked against ghosts* (Ghost Photography mission).
> So yeah.



So does Superman's vision. In Batman #19, the issue just before the one where Batman pulled the disappearing trick on Superman we see Superman use it on the ghost of a young teenager. He is able to see her on a single visual wavelength. 



As well as being able to see someone on every electromagnetic spectrum. Which is why Batman created a suit to account for that. 



Before I just posted part of the scan. This is whole thing which clarifies that Batman himself built it before he had even gotten to actually know Superman as a person. 

So TF was wrong when he said that Superman helped Batman make that suit. Unless TF was talking about yet another suit which I wouldn't be surprised about. Batman has a lot of suits. Many of which he keeps in the Batmobile like this one.


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## Velocity (Aug 29, 2014)

In other words, give Big Boss access to Snake's equipment and Batman and Captain America will get turned into ground paste.


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 29, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> Yeah, your entire compaison is just a big baloon of hot air filled with your personal opinions and only minimal amount of facts.
> Facts which are kinda weak to begin with.


Balloon*

Still haven't worked on your comprehension skills I see.


> Comic book "official" stats are known to be a bull and a considerable underselling compared to what the characters can do.



I find it funny you think I used comic book stats 

There's on panel feats that Batman bench 1ton a day and Capt 1.3 tons.
Since anybody would use this as a staple for base strength and treat each high end feat accordingly. 



> Captain America is a fairly good street leveler thus he's powerscaleable to have massive hypersonic reactions and close combat speed.



Quote me in my original post where I said he isn't at those speed? Talk about full of hot air huh? 
Now if you had any idea of the characters your talking about you would understand the fact that their skill set and fighting style differs thus they'll have different speed feats.
Capt can see bullets so when it's aim dodging, reacting, out running or dodging he does this easily. Batman on the other hand doesn't see bullets and have feats of outrunning chopper fire and Gatling guns or punching multiple bullets. Thus comparing the two batman is impressive because he doesn't  have super sight. 
Disclaimer : that doesn't  mean capt is inferior.

Batman has to dodge/out run lightning and explosions. Capt could do that but he reacts by blocking with his shield. So therefore batman has to be slightly faster because he doesn't have that option.


> One of Captain America's earliest feats have his shield throw sending a giant rock flying, a feat which requires dozens of megajoules of energy.
> More powerful than a tank gun and roughly comaprable to Big Boss' Cocoon-benching feat.



Please for the sake of science don't try use your half ass calcs as facts 

Capt shield material factors into a lot of those feats. And then of course the are versions of Capt who are superhuman by comicbook standards.


> As for Batman, I'm not that familiar with DC but based on Richard Dragon's laser timing feat, Post-Crysis Bats prior to the reboot should had relativistic reactions.



This is where you should be quiet because as usual you don't know.
I wasn't down  playing either characters both has pros and cons to each other and strengths over the other. I base this by their feats, not just high end feats.


> DC-wise there aren't so many crazy showings for "street levelers" so he's about wall to building level in destructive capacity and durability.



Talking shit as usual 
DC has Midnighter he's classified as street leveler
karate Kid 
Damage

DC has a lot more or as much Street levelers as marvel some with higher showings than marvel's Streetlevelers. I.e Karate Kid. 



> But well, this is Batman from the NU52 reboot.
> Well, I read even less of those comics so I can't say much but if Batman is anywhere close to Slade he's building to large building level in durability/DC and has low hypersonic combat speed.



Seriously you quoted to correct me but if you are unsure then you don't know.

And no Slade is on a much higher level than pre52, stop powerscaling shit.



> Issues of fighting skill tactics and such come only after the bare essentials in stats actually match.
> In Batman's case unless he has some feats I'm not currently aware off, he's essentially a non-factor.
> He'd immediately get capped by a random MHS bullet from the Metal Gear side.



Brains always factor in a match like this I.e the reason why Spidey can beat down Rhino.
Here comes the root cause, because I didn't downplay  Batman. Listen if you don't like the character fine but he is a factor.


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 29, 2014)

By the way my above post isn't directed towards Metal gear verse just the comic verse.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 29, 2014)

Only commenting on the calcs and shield comment from DangerDoom

Are you for real?  The shield is a material that supposedly absorbs kinetic energy... So the rock being propelled by virtue of the material in the first place is fucking retarded... On top of positing the shield generates energy from fucking no where.

Shut up and learn some fucking basic physics chuckles.


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 29, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Only commenting on the calcs and shield comment from DangerDoom
> 
> Are you for real?  The shield is a material that supposedly absorbs kinetic energy... So the rock being propelled by virtue of the material in the first place is fucking retarded... On top of positing the shield generates energy from fucking no where.
> 
> Shut up and learn some fucking basic physics chuckles.



Yes the material the same reason he can't hurl an iron shield for the same effect, since that's what the writer is highlighting and you'll realize with that much energy (dozens of MJ), it takes 33 MJ to fire a rail gun, Capt should be a 50-80 Tonner from striking power.

The same reason bone claw wolverine doesn't have ridiculous cutting feats from Adamantium claw Wolverine.

So save your "Physics" lessons


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 29, 2014)

I also want to note I am not dismissing Capt shield throwing feat but I take it for what it is without the calcs involved. 
I don't mind speed feat calcs because most are straight forward.


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## Dudebro (Aug 29, 2014)

Didn't Cap run around with a normal shield for a while and wasn't even remotely hindered.


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 29, 2014)

If it has the same type of feats then I'll retract my argument and apologize.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 29, 2014)

Danger Doom said:


> Yes the material the same reason he can't hurl an iron shield for the same effect, since that's what the writer is highlighting and you'll realize with that much energy (dozens of MJ), it takes 33 MJ to fire a rail gun, Capt should be a 50-80 Tonner from striking power.



Hey, shit for brains?

In the context of 50-80 tons, a character benching that much is producing south of 500-800 kilojoules over a meter of movement.  Don't cite marvel weight classes, they're fucking moronic.

Who gives a shit about a railgun's yield?

You're assuming he could only produce the fucking feat due to a shield who's espoused property is kinetic energy nullification.  Cite a source, or I'll just continue to take the piss out of you over your ignorance.



> The same reason bone claw wolverine doesn't have ridiculous cutting feats from Adamantium claw Wolverine.



Or, you know, the magic of the adamantium claws comes from being a fuckton sharper.



> So save your "Physics" lessons



if I do that, you'd never learn anything you ignorant tit


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 29, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Hey, shit for brains?


Someone needs a hug



> In the context of 50-80 tons, a character benching that much is producing south of 500-800 kilojoules over a meter of movement.  Don't cite marvel weight classes, they're fucking moronic.



As moronic as applying  physics to fictional characters right 


> Who gives a shit about a railgun's yield?


I guess you love throwing random large numbers out 


> You're assuming he could only produce the fucking feat due to a shield who's espoused property is kinetic energy nullification.  Cite a source, or I'll just continue to take the piss out of you over your ignorance.



Cite me a source to the calculation a none fan one, what you can't because writers don't give a shit  

The shield enhance his durability as well as his dc, guess what if he toss the shield at that energy then upon reaching contact the shield would have nullify the energy anyway, using your own logic too.


The feat is as much as the shield doing along with Capt's strength, stay mad. 



> Or, you know, the magic of the adamantium claws comes from being a fuckton sharper.


So wolverine doesn't need cutting power Adamantium does all the work but for capt he does all the work his shield has shit cutting power? 


> if I do that, you'd never learn anything you ignorant tit



Contradiction is your word of the day


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 29, 2014)

That feel when chaos doesn't realize Capt shield isn't pure Vibranium.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 29, 2014)

Danger Doom said:


> As moronic as applying  physics to fictional characters right
> 
> I guess you love throwing randoms large numbers out



You're not really holding the high ground here chuckles.  This entire hobby is fucking stupid.  Just degrees of stupidity in which I comment on.  Marvels shit is flat out wrong.

You certainly seem to like throwing out random numbers, a railgun and benching figures aren't cogent to captain America tossing his shield.



> Cite me a source to the calculation a none fan one, what you can't because writers don't give a shit



So... You're bullshitting a property the shield doesn't have?  Good to know.

Writers don't particularly give a shit about any debate we have, yet here you are doing it anyway chuckles.

Poorly at that.  You never seem to post anything but rambling walls of text with no actual substance.



> The shield enhance his durability as well as his dc, guess what if he toss the shield at that energy then upon reaching contact the shield would have nullify the energy anyway, using your own logic too.



It should, yet it doesn't.  I'm not denying the stupidity of the writers, I'm asking you to back your claims about the shield producing energy from nothing.

Which you haven't, instead opting for half assed snark.



> The feat is as much as the shield doing along with Capt's strength, stay mad.



Prove it


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## Regicide (Aug 29, 2014)

Danger Doom said:


> As moronic as applying  physics to fictional characters right


Not gonna get into this clusterfuck but..

What other options do you really have in versus debates? Feats have to be quantified, otherwise you don't particularly have a basis to compare characters with.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 29, 2014)

As for wolverine, surface area is your friend here chuckles.  He can strike with the same force as normal and still cut better so long as the edge is sharper.

Not that hard


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 29, 2014)

Regicide said:


> Not gonna get into this clusterfuck but..
> 
> What other options do you really have in versus debates? Feats have to be quantified, otherwise you don't particularly have a basis to compare characters with.



Like I said early once the feat is straight forward like speed, strength, etc (provided no too many assumptions are involve) .

My grip comes from calc the feat in terms of energy ( talking about the slicing off tank turret feat).


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 29, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> As for wolverine, surface area is your friend here chuckles.  He can strike with the same force as normal and still cut better so long as the edge is sharper.
> 
> Not that hard



Not like Capt shield is sharpen on it's edge as well and made of other alloys other than Vibranium.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 29, 2014)

Danger Doom said:


> Not like Capt shield is sharpen on it's edge as well and made of other alloys other than Vibranium.



Still no substance, still not backing your claims, still fails to comprehend the minor amount of high school physics this hobby uses

And me still stuck on this fucking train on the way home, bored as fuck and hungry as hell.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 29, 2014)

based chaos


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## Regicide (Aug 29, 2014)

Danger Doom said:


> My grip comes from calc the feat in terms of energy ( talking about the slicing off tank turret feat).


What else would you measure shit with if not joules or some other unit? If you don't know how much energy such-and-such feat requires, you have nothing to work with for these debates.

Even just eyeballing shit is essentially the same thing, just making really rough estimates instead of getting precise values.


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 29, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Still no substance, still not backing your claims, still fails to comprehend the minor amount of high school physics this hobby uses
> 
> And me still stuck on this fucking train on the way home, bored as fuck and hungry as hell.





> During one of his experiments to fuse vibranium with an experimental iron alloy,[7] MacLain falls asleep and awakens to find the experiment a success. This is due to an unknown catalyst entering the process during his slumber, and he is unable to duplicate the result. The vibranium-iron alloy mix is then poured into a mold for a tank's upper hatch to create the disc shape and painted to become Captain America's symbol. MacLain would later attempt to recreate the shield's metal to no avail, his experiments instead eventually yielding the super-metal adamantium.
> 
> Rogers' indestructible shield was long referred to, even in continuity, as being composed of an adamantium-vibranium alloy. In actuality, the experimental iron alloy is now referred to as "proto-adamantium", which is slightly stronger than true adamantium. Dr. MacLain's experiments with proto-adamantium lead to the creation of true adamantium. This proto-adamantium (the only known source) was incorporated with the vibranium in the shield.



So I guess Adamantium only give Wolverine an edge now


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## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 29, 2014)

At least you're finally pulling up sources, even if they're irrelevant to the discussion

>still waiting for source claiming shield creates energy from nothing
>still on this fucking train
>still wants some fucking dinner
>still bored


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## Regicide (Aug 29, 2014)

The struggle is real.


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 29, 2014)

-still believe Capt is doing all the work 
- why the fuck did they give him this shield as a weapon since it doesn't give much of an edge , waste of good Vibranium-alloy


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## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 29, 2014)

That it is Regicide, that it is

Still waiting for an actual rebuttal danger doom


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 29, 2014)

Sitting waiting for Choas physics source, maybe he blogged it :shrug.

Anyway I derailed this thread enough.


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## willyvereb (Aug 30, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> As for wolverine, surface area is your friend here chuckles.  He can strike with the same force as normal and still cut better so long as the edge is sharper.
> 
> Not that hard


Well, sharpness of the wedge only counts till some depth.
Not when Wolverine cuts through entire robots with his claw.
By that point it's almost the same as assuming he uses blunt sticks as thick as the widest part of those claws.
Mind it, that's still less than a square meter so the energy required would be a fraction of the Sentinel's durability feat.
A considerable faction, that is.

On the other hand impacts are a double edged sword.
Just striking with enough force isn't enough, your weapon also needs to withstand this.
So if Wolverine issues to cut someone with mere bone claws that is because of this.
Adamantium is virtually unbreakable so Wolverine has no issues with that.
On the other hand hardness or sharpened edges alone are no explanation for when he cuts through something really tough.
He also needs to muscle out that energy.
Ofc this being Wolverine he also have some feats of "cutting" way ahead of his weight class.
But this can be also attributed to fuckups from the writers and considered outliers.
Just don't dismiss all of Wolverine's showings to this because then you fall to the other end of the horse.
The latter is a common issue when people debate comics.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 30, 2014)

the sharper his claws are the less energy he needs to impart.

Unbreakable+super sharp = incredible cutting edge

a normal blade would break if it were 1 molecule thick but Adamantium would have no problem.


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## willyvereb (Aug 30, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> the sharper his claws are the less energy he needs to impart.
> 
> Unbreakable+super sharp = incredible cutting edge
> 
> a normal blade would break if it were 1 molecule thick but Adamantium would have no problem.


That'd only work if that molecule-thick layer etends for many centimeters or in cases many meters in length.
Basically if there would be an "invisible length" of the blade, which it clearly doesn't possess.
So even if it has a theoretical monomolecular edge it'd only be put into consideration when the target is rather thin like a few milimeters because the Adamantium claws possessing a monomolecular "invisible edge" any longer would severely contradict with how it has been portrayed.

EDIT: Also it worths noting that even if the blade would be monomolecular to any length thus drastically reducing the surface area, it still won't make Wolverine's feats of cutting Class 100 opponents any more plausible.
If a character can usually tank a few Foe energy then Wolverine still needs 200 yottatons of TNT power to cut them even if we assume a nanometer width blade for the whole action.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 30, 2014)

fair enough

marvel is dumb about these things


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