# Nagato & Obito vs Akatsuki



## ARGUS (Jan 12, 2014)

*Akatsuki vs The Leaders*

Nagato & Obito have gone berserk and the akatsuki members do not approve of their plan and so they start an all out battle 

Akatsuki has: Itachi & Kisame, Hidan & Kakuzu, Deidara & Sasori, Konan & Orochimaru

Itachi is alive however his stamina is slightly better 
Orochimaru is how he fought Hiruzen, but doesn't have ET
Nagato is healthy and mobile, without his six puppets 
Obito has the rinnegan, and cannot use paths   

Location: Destroyed Konoha 
Starting Distance: 200m 
Restrictions: Izanami, Izanagi, GM, KA, ET
Knowledge: Manga
Intent: To Kill 
Mindset: Lord Hidan, Itachi and Kisame are bloodlusted, everyone else is IC  

Can the Akatsuki leaders take over their organisation?


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 12, 2014)

What's the intel?


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## Joakim3 (Jan 12, 2014)

Im pretty sure both Nagato & Obito have _always_ been crazy lol 

*Both* Nagato & Obito have their _Pein Rikudo_... this is an omni-rape of such comical proportions. Obito & Nagato don't even need their paths and they could comfortably pull a low-mid diff win.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Jan 12, 2014)

They blow the rest of the Akatsuki the fuck up.

At the very least, restrict the paths for both of them.


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## ARGUS (Jan 12, 2014)

I Am Probably Wrong said:


> They blow the rest of the Akatsuki the fuck up.
> 
> At the very least, restrict the paths for both of them.



Paths are now restricted 
So who wins now


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## ARGUS (Jan 12, 2014)

Joakim3 said:


> Im pretty sure both Nagato & Obito have _always_ been crazy lol
> 
> *Both* Nagato & Obito have their _Pein Rikudo_... this is an omni-rape of such comical proportions. Obito & Nagato don't even need their paths and they could comfortably pull a low-mid diff win.



Paths are restricted now


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## ARGUS (Jan 12, 2014)

Joakim3 said:


> Im pretty sure both Nagato & Obito have _always_ been crazy lol
> 
> *Both* Nagato & Obito have their _Pein Rikudo_... this is an omni-rape of such comical proportions. Obito & Nagato don't even need their paths and they could comfortably pull a low-mid diff win.



Yeah I love makin threads involving crazy characters like obito and nagato
I've restricted the paths now... So who do u think wins now? 
I mean akatsukis got some good cmbos and team work


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## ARGUS (Jan 12, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> What's the intel?



Manga knowledge


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## Joakim3 (Jan 12, 2014)

Obito phases Nagato & himself with Kamui, Nagato spams massive _Shinra Tensei_ rins and repeat until everyone is dead

...or CST one shots


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## crisler (Jan 12, 2014)

The best scenario for akatsuki would be to split the two. Itachi handles one of them while others handle the other. None of the other akatsuki members can stand alone against either of them, even Itachi will have trouble if he's fighting Nagato.


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## fior fior (Jan 12, 2014)

Both Nagato and Obito can solo low-diff.


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 12, 2014)

I really think you guys are underestimating the Akatsuki here, with manga knowledge Konan, who knows both Nagatos and Obitos powers would tell the whole team of their weaknesses. Characts like Kakazu would be a perfect counter to Obito because he can attack Obito fast when Obito try's to wrap somebody, same thing applies with Konan, she would be ale to severally injure him even without prep, seeing as how she took out one of his arms before actually using her prep constructed ocean of explosives tags. Itachi and Orochimaru take on Nagato while Konan and Kakazu take on Obito. Hidan, Kisame, Deidara and Sasori rape the 4 Jins fairly quickly and go help out the others. 

All in all, with manga knowledge, I would give the win to team Akatsuki mid-high diff.


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## richard lewis (Jan 12, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> I really think you guys are underestimating the Akatsuki here, with manga knowledge Konan, who knows both Nagatos and Obitos powers would tell the whole team of their weaknesses. Characts like Kakazu would be a perfect counter to Obito because he can attack Obito fast when Obito try's to wrap somebody, same thing applies with Konan, she would be ale to severally injure him even without prep, seeing as how she took out one of his arms before actually using her prep constructed ocean of explosives tags. Itachi and Orochimaru take on Nagato while Konan and Kakazu take on Obito. Hidan, Kisame, Deidara and Sasori rape the 4 Jins fairly quickly and go help out the others.
> 
> All in all, with manga knowledge, I would give the win to team Akatsuki mid-high diff.



nagato had both naruto and bee pined down rather easily and quickly, the only akatsuki who can even resist not getting rofl stomped is probably itachi and maybe oro and kisame. lol kakuzu isn't doing jack to obito, his masks are actually rather slow hence why kakashi was dodging them no problem. obito goes around soul ripping people or launching car sized shuriken at them or his football field sized katons. If the duo can take down itachi it them becomes a cake walk for them. im leaning towards obito and nagato with high diff right now


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 12, 2014)

richard lewis said:


> nagato had both naruto and bee pined down rather easily and quickly, the only akatsuki who can even resist not getting rofl stomped is probably itachi and maybe oro and kisame. lol kakuzu isn't doing jack to obito, his masks are actually rather slow hence why kakashi was dodging them no problem. obito goes around soul ripping people or launching car sized shuriken at them or his football field sized katons. If the duo can take down itachi it them becomes a cake walk for them. im leaning towards obito and nagato with high diff right now



He had a KM Naruto who cannot use clones (his main offence) and Bee who did not go full Hachibi mode. Kakazu's masks are fast, they dodged Choji's Chou Harite from point blanck range . His threads can catch Obito off guard, with full intel, Kakazu can pose a very significant threat to Obito, as can basically any one of the Akatsuki other than Hidan. His Shuriken are not car sized, they are dealt easily by any of the Akatsuki, even Hidan, that's like saying Hiruzen can pose a threat cause he can throw multiple big Shuriken. Human path is nothing to Obito, if he has Kamui which is basically the same thing in the way that they both basically give a win once he touches someone, but Kamui is faster. With Kamui exposed by Konan, every single one of the Akatsuki members can beat if not severally injure Obito, even Konan herself (who is the second weakeest Akatsuki here).


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## N4GAmbush (Jan 12, 2014)

Team Akatsuki wins due to:

Konan knowing the secrets of both Obito and Nagato
-Itachi>Obito with that knowledge (Even Obito admitted)
-The rest of the Akatsuki greatly benefits as well

I see the battle going like this:
Team 1) Obito vs. Itachi, Sasori, Konan, and kakuzu
Team 2) Nagato vs Kisame, Orochimaru, Deidara, and Hidan.

Team 1 wins because:
Sasori activates his 297 puppet jutsu to leave no opening for Obito
Konan uses her paper ocean technique to leave no opening for Obito
Kakuzu and Itachi wait for about 4 minutes and 55 seconds 
Itachi throws a Yasaka Magatama at Obito 
kakuzu uses a lightning based technique on Obito
Kamui is deactivated
OBITO IS DESTROYED WITH NO IZANAGI!

Team 2 wins because:
Nagato would most likely engage in CQC as he did with Naruto and Killer-B 
Kisame+Orochimaru fight Nagato up close.
Deidara tries to use long range attacks.
Orochimaru tries to barrage Nagato to let Kisame cut Nagato and get his blood.
Samehada finally manages to slice Nagato

Kisame retreats 
Orochimaru is about to get soul ripped
Kisame gives Hidan blood sample 
Hidan uses his Curse Technique: Death Controlling Possessed Blood
Hidan one shots Nagato
Orochimaru is spared.

All in all, Akatsuki wins either way


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## LostSelf (Jan 12, 2014)

N4GAmbush said:


> Team Akatsuki wins due to:
> 
> Konan knowing the secrets of both Obito and Nagato
> -Itachi>Obito with that knowledge (Even Obito admitted)
> ...



Two things to note here is that Konan's paper ocean and Deidara's bombs have friendly fire.

And just because Naruto fought against Human Path's soul ripping for some little time, doesn't mean Orochimaru will, as Nagato would instantly soul rip him. Naruto was clearly fighting with his Chakra arm just like he fought Kyuubi, wich allowed him to resist Nagato's pull with his own chakra arm.

Not saying that Nagato and Obito wins, however, None of the Akatsuki can defend themselves against a CST used directly on them. Orochimaru and Hidan might be the only ones alive (thus badly injured), and they can be taken out by Nagato without Deva's powers helped by Obito. 

That's another scenario to consider.


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## Bonly (Jan 12, 2014)

Akatsuki are gonna lose more times then not. Obito+Nagato are fast enough to react to all the Akatsuki members attacks without to many problems. Nagato and Obito sweep through these guys over time and take them all out.


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## N4GAmbush (Jan 12, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> Two things to note here is that Konan's paper ocean and Deidara's bombs have friendly fire.



Yes, there is friendly fire but that's why I used Itachi's long range attack. Sasori and Deidara don't have to worry as they can fly.



LostSelf said:


> And just because Naruto fought against Human Path's soul ripping for some little time, doesn't mean Orochimaru will, as Nagato would instantly soul rip him. Naruto was clearly fighting with his Chakra arm just like he fought Kyuubi, wich allowed him to resist Nagato's pull with his own chakra arm.



That's why I assigned Orochimaru with the task of distraction as he is best suited to resist nagato with his snake arms and the sword of kusenagi that can come out of his mouth.



LostSelf said:


> Not saying that Nagato and Obito wins, however, None of the Akatsuki can defend themselves against a CST used directly on them. Orochimaru and Hidan might be the only ones alive (thus badly injured), and they can be taken out by Nagato without Deva's powers helped by Obito.



You have a good point there but once again, that's why I designated Orochimaru to this team. He can use Summoning: Triple Rashōmon to negate the effects. Also, because this ability can be used almost immediately I think it would be very effective against Shinra Tensai. 

As far as chibaku tensai goes, Itachi developed an incredible plan for negating that. I'm sure Deidara's clay bombs would be capable of counteracting it as his explosions can be of gigantic proportions.


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## N4GAmbush (Jan 12, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Akatsuki are gonna lose more times then not. Obito+Nagato are fast enough to react to all the Akatsuki members attacks without to many problems. Nagato and Obito sweep through these guys over time and take them all out.



I mean, it really all depends. The akatsuki has 3 one shot characters 
-Itachi: Tsukuyomi & Totsuka
-Sasori: Magnet Release poisoned senbon
-Hidan: Curse Technique: Death Controlling Possessed Blood

Obito and Nagato can both be defeated with a single hit if they don't play their cards right. You also have to remember, the akatsuki has Itachi and he's arguably the best with coming up with solutions to get around techniques. With him formulating the strategies, their chances of winning increase exponentially. It really just depends on if the akatsuki can work together or not.


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## Lawrence777 (Jan 12, 2014)

Nagato can absorb chakra-based attacks whenever he wishes provided he can react in time, but many Akatsuki have attacks that can get around preta's absorption. Off the top of my head Konan's paper explosives, Deidara's detonation-explosives, and all of sasori's attacks will be able to get around preta path.

For the attacks Nagato can't defend against using Preta Absorption, he'll need shinra tensei, but that can only be used every 5 seconds roughly and is easily exploitable with the amount of attacks Akatsuki has. In Konan's case, unless ST disintegrates her paper explosives, she'll just push her explosive paper right back into Nagato's face immediately, and I reiterate preta can't defend against alot of things the akatsuki have such as her paper.

Nagato not constantly using Preta would mean the possibility of getting hit with amaterasu or susanoo or Kisame's ninjutsu or Kakuzu's ninjutsu. That's not to say anything of Hidan abusing his immortality to harass Nagato in cqc.

Nagato'd normally be able to handle Hidan in cqc, but 

doing so in the midst of being forced to keep Preta path up for fear of various elemental ninjutsu
while he can't even see anything in front of him due to the smoke and debris created by deidara and konan's explosives
 and yet still has to survive various un-preta-able attacks such as jiongu and deidara's explosives and konan's explosives and sasori's attacks

Nagato would probably be _so_ bogged down defending against attacks that he himself'd have _no time_ to counterattack.

CST and CT would never be prepped given Konan's pre-knowledge on CST's charge time and Itachi's pre-knowledge of CT's mechanics.


This is far too much for Nagato and Obito to handle. Obito's absorption ability slows down when he absorbs any target but himself, and Konan(and subsequently akatsuki) know this already going into the battle. Obito slows down so much that Konan was able to exploit that knowledge, and if Konan is capable of exploiting that I'm sure atleast Itachi if not other faster members are also capable of exploiting it as well.  Obito continually phasing in and out with Nagato isn't viable with the hit his jutsu's execution speed takes.

Akatsuki wins and I don't even think it's close tbh. This team'd low-mid diff the gokage.


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## LostSelf (Jan 12, 2014)

N4GAmbush said:


> Yes, there is friendly fire but that's why I used Itachi's long range attack. Sasori and Deidara don't have to worry as they can fly.



But not Deidara. The others below will have to worry about Deidara's huge ass explosions. Only C2 did this, this and this huge one.



> That's why I assigned Orochimaru with the task of distraction as he is best suited to resist nagato with his snake arms and the sword of kusenagi that can come out of his mouth.



But nothing indicates Orochimaru won't be instantly soul ripped like this guy. His snake hands won't be able to grab his chakra, nor to stall Nagato even a bit. Naruto, who defeated Kyuubi in this game, was losing.



> You have a good point there but once again, that's why I designated Orochimaru to this team. He can use Summoning: Triple Rashōmon to negate the effects. Also, because this ability can be used almost immediately I think it would be very effective against Shinra Tensai.



CST was too fast for everybody to know what happened [1], [2], [3] (I say everyone because if Tsunade, who saw Deva planning something didn't know, the others had less chances of knowing). In this particular case, Deva path fired CST to the village in order to destroy it.

In this fight he doesn't need to do such a thing, just aim it against his enemies, and if they don't expect it coming, they would not have any time to summon Rashomon. Probably Susano'o, but that's if Itachi knows Nagato is gonna use it.



> As far as chibaku tensai goes, Itachi developed an incredible plan for negating that. I'm sure Deidara's clay bombs would be capable of counteracting it as his explosions can be of gigantic proportions.



Agreed.


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## Bonly (Jan 12, 2014)

N4GAmbush said:


> I mean, it really all depends. The akatsuki has 3 one shot characters
> -Itachi: Tsukuyomi & Totsuka
> -Sasori: Magnet Release poisoned senbon
> -Hidan: Curse Technique: Death Controlling Possessed Blood




Knowledge is manga so I doubt that Nagato nor Obito would not know about these. But just to counter these:

All Nagato+Obito have to do is avoid eye sight to not fall for Tsukuyomi. Totsuka won't be much of problem because chances are if Itachi went with his lvl 4 Susanoo, Obito would go to Kamui him on up.

Sasori's Jiton looks nice on paper but Obito is fast enough to get behind him and Kamui him or kill him.

Hidan isn't gonna get any blood from Nagato or Obito so that won't be much of a problem but in the off chance he does manage such then Obito is fast enough to get to him and finish him off.



> Obito and Nagato can both be defeated with a single hit if they don't play their cards right.



Yes they can but Nagato and Obito has more and better chances of taking out the Akatsuki members with their one shot techs then vice verse.



> You also have to remember, the akatsuki has Itachi and he's arguably the best with coming up with solutions to get around techniques. With him formulating the strategies, their chances of winning increase exponentially. It really just depends on if the akatsuki can work together or not.



Not really. What if Obito targeted and took out Itachi first. Well there go your whole "their chances of winning increase exponentially" flying out the window. Also coming up with strategies can only take them so far as they have to actually have what it takes to go through and successfully complete it, with their oppentes being Obito and Nagato who have a counter for damn near(if not all) everything they can do, the strategies aren't looking so good. The Akatsuki are simply outclassed.


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## N4GAmbush (Jan 12, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> But not Deidara. The others below will have to worry about Deidara's huge ass explosions. Only C2 did this, this and this huge one.



My apologies, I meant Konan as Deidara is fighting Nagato...



LostSelf said:


> But nothing indicates Orochimaru won't be instantly soul ripped like this guy. His snake hands won't be able to grab his chakra, nor to stall Nagato even a bit. Naruto, who defeated Kyuubi in this game, was losing.
> .



Another good point, however even if Orochimaru was sealed he can come back so his death isn't anything to be worried about lol. Also, he may be able to turn Nagato's chakra off if he can successfully use Five Elements Seal, though it's more likely that Nagato get's him first due to having six arms. Furthermore, once kisame get's the blood sample all he has to do is create a source of water and his speed will increase drastically once he merges with samehada. Once that happens, Nagato's chance of winning is almost zero.



LostSelf said:


> CST was too fast for everybody to know what happened [1], [2], [3] (I say everyone because if Tsunade, who saw Deva planning something didn't know, the others had less chances of knowing). In this particular case, Deva path fired CST to the village in order to destroy it.



Indeed but at the time nobody was looking into the skies where Pain was casually preparing to use CST. In the middle of battle I doubt 4 people would lose track of where their one target is, even if he can become invisible. Also, I'm wondering if Samehada would be able to split the attack like it did for Killer-B against Itachi? 

Anyways, I'd give this to the akatsuki 7/10 times. There's simply too many people for Nagato and Obito to handle.


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## Jagger (Jan 12, 2014)

N4GAmbush said:


> Team 2 wins because:
> Nagato would most likely engage in CQC as he did with Naruto and Killer-B
> Kisame+Orochimaru fight Nagato up close.
> Deidara tries to use long range attacks.
> ...


When has Nagato ever shown to start a fight by engaging into CQC? In most of his fights, he starts by summoning his diverse animals to create distraction and an initial barrage against the enemy which would keep the likes of Hidan (and maybe Deidara ) busy enough while Nagato deals with both Kisame and Orochimaru at the same time.

Kisame is a fool if he tries to get close to Nagato since the latter is more than capable of blowing him up into pieces or just repelling away. On top of that, Nagato has the aerial advantage over them, which can keep him out from most of Oro's snake jutsu. 

Deidara can be easily nullified by BT + Asura Path's chakra cannon or a barrage of missiles as he hasn't shown any kind of great endurace or defense.

Nagato finishes off both Kisame and Oro later and, if things get rough, he can use Chibaku Tensei.


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## N4GAmbush (Jan 12, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Knowledge is manga so I doubt that Nagato nor Obito would not know about these. But just to counter these:
> 
> All Nagato+Obito have to do is avoid eye sight to not fall for Tsukuyomi. Totsuka won't be much of problem because chances are if Itachi went with his lvl 4 Susanoo, Obito would go to Kamui him on up.



I wouldn't be surprised if Obito knew about Tsukuyomi, Nagato on the other hand... I doubt it. Also, as far as the manga goes Guy was the only person able to fight without making eye contact; it's a natural thing to do and really, just a habit. 

As far as Itachi's susanoo goes, please explain how he'll manage to do that without getting sealed by totsuka 



Bonly said:


> Sasori's Jiton looks nice on paper but Obito is fast enough to get behind him and Kamui him or kill him.


You severely underestimate Sasori and as I said, a barrage of those along with the paper bombs will leave no opening's for Tobi to deactivate/reactivate Kamui. Once he's sliced one time it's gg and if the puppets don't kill him the paper bombs will. 



Bonly said:


> Hidan isn't gonna get any blood from Nagato or Obito so that won't be much of a problem but in the off chance he does manage such then Obito is fast enough to get to him and finish him off.



Hidan would get decapitated if he tried to get blood and without Kakuzu to save him he's out of the fight. This is precisely why Kisame would be getting the sample as samehada would allow him to fight at a further-than-arms length. 



Bonly said:


> Yes they can but Nagato and Obito has more and better chances of taking out the Akatsuki members with their one shot techs then vice verse.


 
Maybe Nagato's but as we've seen, Obito was unable to warp anyone but Kakashi in a fight so the chances of him warping anyone while being barraged is extremely slim, especially considering that if he teleports into Sasori's magnet release which can be used as a great defense, GG.



Bonly said:


> Not really. What if Obito targeted and took out Itachi first. Well there go your whole "their chances of winning increase exponentially" flying out the window. Also coming up with strategies can only take them so far as they have to actually have what it takes to go through and successfully complete it, with their oppentes being Obito and Nagato who have a counter for damn near(if not all) everything they can do, the strategies aren't looking so good. The Akatsuki are simply outclassed.



Obito taking out Itachi first 

Anyways, Itachi vs Obito alone would be a good battle - albeit Obito wins more times than not - with the addition of three other people Obito doesn't stand a chance. Especially against Itachi, Konan, Sasori, AND Kakuzu.


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## Lawrence777 (Jan 12, 2014)

Bonly, I'm sure Nagato can counter _some_ of Akatsuki's jutsu using Preta path's abilities.

He can counter any attack as long as it's still in ninjutsu form as it reaches him. Attacks like these:

Kisame's ninjutsu [1] [2]
Itachi's Ninjutsu [1][2]

If the attack is nothing but an explosion when it reaches him I don't think he can preta that away though. Attacks like these:
Kakuzu's Ninjutsu[1][2]
Deidara's Ninjutsu[1][2]
Preta can for instance, absorb Deidara's clay creation, but not the explosion released from Deidara's clay creation.
He may  need shinra tensei for these, I'm not sure, but he still definitely has to keep preta active to deal with the definitely preta-able ones above like Itachi's and Kisame's.

These can't be preta'd away period
Orochimaru's ninjutsu[1][2]
Sasori's Ninjutsu[1] and basically all his attacks
Konan's paper explosion tags. Paper explosive tags aren't ninjutsu altogether.

If they were all susceptible to Preta absorption that would be one thing, but there not.

He has to use shinra tensei for the ones he can't absorb, but then he can't use it for another 5 seconds. As long as they coordinate there attacks he won't be able to defend against all of them.

Now the logical question would then be why can't Obito make up to additionally assist Nagato's defense.
Obito takes much longer to absorb people than he takes to absorb himself 1 . Obito can't stay intangible indefinitely, so he makes up for this by phasing in when he has the chance to. His phasing in and out will be slower if he has nagato attached to his hip, slow enough perhaps to throw into doubt whether it is a feasible defense.


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## N4GAmbush (Jan 12, 2014)

Jagger said:


> When has Nagato ever shown to start a fight by engaging into CQC? In most of his fights, he starts by summoning his diverse animals to create distraction and an initial barrage against the enemy which would keep the likes of Hidan (and maybe Deidara ) busy enough while Nagato deals with both Kisame and Orochimaru at the same time.



Indeed he does, however, Orochimaru's Eight Brances Technique would be enough to deal with most of them, with the exception of Nagato's Giant Multi-Headed Dog. Deidara could incinerate it with his explosive clay though so there is no worries and IIRC that would work because Itachi used Amaterasu to destroy it, right? You underestimate Orochimaru...



Jagger said:


> Kisame is a fool if he tries to get close to Nagato since the latter is more than capable of blowing him up into pieces or just repelling away. On top of that, Nagato has the aerial advantage over them, which can keep him out from most of Oro's snake jutsu.



Agreed, if he chooses to fly... However, Deidara can be of great assistance in this situation.



Jagger said:


> Deidara can be easily nullified by BT + Asura Path's chakra cannon or a barrage of missiles as he hasn't shown any kind of great endurace or defense.



Because he was crying like a little bitch when his arm got ripped off? 



Jagger said:


> Nagato finishes off both Kisame and Oro later and, if things get rough, he can use Chibaku Tensei.



Even so, that's only if Nagato manages to take out Deidara first but it's more likely that he'd have to fight Oro and Kisame as they are close range fighters and Deidara is long range and can fight from a distance...


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 12, 2014)

The Akatsuki leaders rape. A Kabuto controlled healthy, mobile Nagato could take out KCM Naruto, Killer B and Edo Itachi. That's Kabuto without knowledge on Nagato's full capabilities, such as sensing. The thought of facing this Nagato made Jiraiya go into SM right away, something people like Kisame and Itachi didn't make Jiraiya feel like he had to do.

Obito is MORE broken without the Paths. Think about it, whenever Shinra Tensei is used, he can use Kamui for 5 seconds then use it again. There are all sorts of combinations he can use.

As a team they will rape Akatsuki hard. Especially if they stay close; Nagato can also be "intangible" so long as Obito touches him.

The combinations Nagato and Obito can use to win are almost endless.


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## N4GAmbush (Jan 12, 2014)

Lawrence777 said:


> Kisame's ninjutsu [1] [2]
> Itachi's Ninjutsu [1][2]



I agree with most of this but if Nagato can absorb totsuka then why didn't he do it? And, if he can absorb Amaterasu, why didn't he do it?


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## Lawrence777 (Jan 12, 2014)

The leaders have no chance of winning this battle lol. The only people beating these 8 shinobi simultaneously start with M and H(and naruto I wager also).
^I don't know nor do I think it matters when they're being faced with this much fire power.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 12, 2014)

N4GAmbush said:


> I agree with most of this but if Nagato can absorb totsuka then why didn't he do it? And, if he can absorb Amaterasu, why didn't he do it?



Trollkage couldn't attack Muu because of an Edo Tensei restriction: he couldn't attack allies (other Edo Tensei). Itachi was an ally so Nagato physically couldn't react by absorbing or repelling anything; Nagato didn't even want to fight.


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## N4GAmbush (Jan 12, 2014)

Lawrence777 said:


> The only people beating these 8 shinobi simultaneously start with M and H.



  Hanzo and Mifune? That's brilliant!


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## LostSelf (Jan 12, 2014)

N4GAmbush said:


> My apologies, I meant Konan as Deidara is fighting Nagato...



Do you mean Deidara, Orochimaru and Kisame fighting Nagato? If that's so, then Orochi and Kisame still needs to be aware of Dei's explosive clays, as much as Nagato, actually. Also, Nagato can get insivible and took them out by surprise, or BT Deidara while he pressures Kisame and Orochimaru with attacks like this



> Another good point, however even if Orochimaru was sealed he can come back so his death isn't anything to be worried about lol. Also, he may be able to turn Nagato's chakra off if he can successfully use Five Elements Seal, though it's more likely that Nagato get's him first due to having six arms. Furthermore, once kisame get's the blood sample all he has to do is create a source of water and his speed will increase drastically once he merges with samehada. Once that happens, Nagato's chance of winning is almost zero.



Actually, but there is nobody with a cursed seal in this fight for him to come back. Also, Kisame taking blood of Nagato by sneak attacks it's not gonna be possible unless he's dominated since Nagato can sense him and track his location. If he feels somebody getting close to him, he would counter with ST. And if that ST is as strong as this one, Kisame is pretty much screwed. Orochimaru might not die due to his body being made to take blunt damage, but he's being sent flying a pretty good distance. Wich leaves Nagato to help Tobi, or to take down Deidara.

Also, Kisame's waterdome would be absorbed as well.



> Indeed but at the time nobody was looking into the skies where Pain was casually preparing to use CST. In the middle of battle I doubt 4 people would lose track of where their one target is, even if he can become invisible. Also, I'm wondering if Samehada would be able to split the attack like it did for Killer-B against Itachi?



The villagers could've only seen Deva, because Shinra Tensei is invisible, therefore, looking up or not, they would've not seen anything. Not that it matters, the attack collided with the floor before the Hokage (strongest shinobi at the time in Konoha) could even know what hit her.

ST is an opposing force, i don't think Samehada can do it because i don't think it's made of chakra. Nagato uses his own chakra to create it. However, it's not a crazy thing to assume Samehada can, but the attack has always been so fast than Sharingan users and sensors like Kakashi and Naruto failed to see it coming.



> Anyways, I'd give this to the akatsuki 7/10 times. There's simply too many people for Nagato and Obito to handle.



This opinion is appreciated and logical, though. Even though i give this to the strongest two of Akatsuki, the other team can win this as well.


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## Bonly (Jan 12, 2014)

N4GAmbush said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if Obito knew about Tsukuyomi, Nagato on the other hand... I doubt it.



Good thing Obito can just tell Nagato about it then.



> Also, as far as the manga goes Guy was the only person able to fight without making eye contact; it's a natural thing to do and really, just a habit.



No Gai is the only person who trained to fight the Sharingan by looking at ones feet. People can easily look at a persons body(not directly at the eyes themselves) and fight normally.



> As far as Itachi's susanoo goes, please explain how he'll manage to do that without getting sealed by totsuka



By using Kamui to get inside of it and suck Itachi on up.




> You severely underestimate Sasori and as I said, a barrage of those along with the paper bombs will leave no opening's for Tobi to deactivate/reactivate Kamui. Once he's sliced one time it's gg and if the puppets don't kill him the paper bombs will.



No you're overrating Sasori. Sasori's attacking speed is in no way,shape, or form fast enough to give Obito any trouble. Minato was on his head here in the middle of the village. When Minato used FTG he went somewhere outside of the village or the outskirts it seems and Obito was right behind him in a few seconds. Here Onoki is a few inches/feet in front of Sasuke when he fires off Jinton and Onoki thinks he killed Sasuke but turns out that Obito saved him. This means that Obito popped up via Kamui, grabbed Sasuke, sucked Sasuke up via Kamui and warped himself via Kamui all before Onoki Jinton could touch either of the two right in front of Onoki face and he saw nothing. If you actually think Sasori's attack speed will give Obitto any problem just because Sasori can throw a shitload of things at once then you are overrating his attack speed.





> Hidan would get decapitated if he tried to get blood and without Kakuzu to save him he's out of the fight. This is precisely why Kisame would be getting the sample as samehada would allow him to fight at a further-than-arms length.



Kisame isn't gonna get blood with Samehada. Obito can use Kamui to avoid being hit and Nagato can just use a ST to stop him.





> Maybe Nagato's but as we've seen, Obito was unable to warp anyone but Kakashi in a fight so the chances of him warping anyone while being barraged is extremely slim, especially considering that if he teleports into Sasori's magnet release which can be used as a great defense, GG.



Obito was unable to warp anyone because they had a good counter against his Kamui but in case you think he can't suck up someone then just think about Obito popping up close to one of them and using his large ass Katon to kill them. 



> Obito taking out Itachi first
> 
> Anyways, Itachi vs Obito alone would be a good battle - albeit Obito wins more times than not - with the addition of three other people Obito doesn't stand a chance. Especially against Itachi, Konan, Sasori, AND Kakuzu.



Rinnegan Obito vs Itachi is not a good fight. Obito can easily use his flame barrier to keep Itachi in and eventually take him out. He can let his paths do the work and take them all out, he can use GM to distract Itachi while he gets close to warp him, he can rip out his soul with Human path if he gets close enough and he can do much more to the point that it becomes a rape. You can give him three other Akatsuki members and they still go down. They don't have what it takes to put down the path which has the Jins powers, a Sharingan+Rinnegan, have the regen since they are Edo and deal with everything Obito himself can do as well. Hell you can take away the paths and he can still do it, I don't think you have a good understanding of how strong Obito really is.


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## N4GAmbush (Jan 12, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> Do you mean Deidara, Orochimaru and Kisame fighting Nagato? If that's so, then Orochi and Kisame still needs to be aware of Dei's explosive clays, as much as Nagato, actually. Also, Nagato can get insivible and took them out by surprise, or BT Deidara while he pressures Kisame and Orochimaru with attacks like this



Deidara, Orochimaru, Kisame, and Hidan vs Nagato.

Also, I think the OP forgot that Sasuke, Jugo, and Karin were in the akatsuki as well.



LostSelf said:


> Actually, but there is nobody with a cursed seal in this fight for him to come back. Also, Kisame taking blood of Nagato by sneak attacks it's not gonna be possible unless he's dominated since Nagato can sense him and track his location. If he feels somebody getting close to him, he would counter with ST. And if that ST is as strong as this one, Kisame is pretty much screwed. Orochimaru might not die due to his body being made to take blunt damage, but he's being sent flying a pretty good distance. Wich leaves Nagato to help Tobi, or to take down Deidara.



I was just saying that if he died it wouldn't matter much for him because he's able to come back eventually. He wouldn't be back in time to finish the fight though... As you said, ST probably wouldn't kill Orochimaru because he was able to survive from Naruto bitch slapping him a whole mile through a forest.



LostSelf said:


> The villagers could've only seen Deva, because Shinra Tensei is invisible, therefore, looking up or not, they would've not seen anything. Not that it matters, the attack collided with the floor before the Hokage (strongest shinobi at the time in Konoha) could even know what hit her.



The villagers may have indeed seen the path but my point is that the people who said they didn't know what hit them (Sakura and Tsunade) didn't. If they were looking directly at the deva path when he did it than that quote would be more creditable IMO.



LostSelf said:


> This opinion is appreciated and logical, though. Even though i give this to the strongest two of Akatsuki, the other team can win this as well.



No problem


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## Lawrence777 (Jan 12, 2014)

If Obito isolates Itachi and fights him by himself, Orochimaru, Kisame,Konan,Hidan,Deidara,Sasori and whoever else I missed annihilate Nagato with 5+~ nonelemental attacks that can't be preta'd away + manga knowledge on ST interval.


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## Garcher (Jan 12, 2014)

Itachi solos. Obito admitted that Itachi could have easily killed him and Itachi solod Nagato. Canon facts.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 12, 2014)

Lawrence777 said:


> If Obito isolates Itachi and fights him by himself, Orochimaru, Kisame,Konan,Hidan,Deidara,Sasori and whoever else I missed annihilate Nagato with 5+~ nonelemental attacks that can't be preta'd away + manga knowledge on ST interval.



CST is still an option against all those shinobi. Since Nagato would be using it from his own body, and without being in a chakra deprived state, it should be considerably more powerful than the CST God Realm showed.

Out of all the shinobi you mentioned (excluding Obito and Itachi for obvious reasons), *only* Orochimaru has a chance of surviving that. Hidan obviously will survive. Kakuzu may survive too, depending on what you think of Doton: Domu.


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## richard lewis (Jan 12, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> He had a KM Naruto who cannot use clones (his main offence) and Bee who did not go full Hachibi mode. Kakazu's masks are fast, they dodged Choji's Chou Harite from point blanck range . His threads can catch Obito off guard, with full intel, Kakazu can pose a very significant threat to Obito, as can basically any one of the Akatsuki other than Hidan. His Shuriken are not car sized, they are dealt easily by any of the Akatsuki, even Hidan, that's like saying Hiruzen can pose a threat cause he can throw multiple big Shuriken. Human path is nothing to Obito, if he has Kamui which is basically the same thing in the way that they both basically give a win once he touches someone, but Kamui is faster. With Kamui exposed by Konan, every single one of the Akatsuki members can beat if not severally injure Obito, even Konan herself (who is the second weakeest Akatsuki here).



LoL obito can go around picking off akatsuki members 1 by 1, he can teleport behind them and then bombard them with city sized katons and/or minivan sized shuriken b/4 they can respond. deidara, hidan, and sasori get this treatment and die early on"although in sasori's case he'll have to use human path" kakuzu will be slightly more difficult but he can phase though anything kakuzu throws at him and with 5 min of immortality due to izangi he can kill off konan and kakuzu w/o having to worry about dying himself. nagato in my opinion is stringer than itachi and his armada of summons can help obito hold off the other akatsuki while he fights itachi.


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## Jizznificent (Jan 12, 2014)

kamui + soul rip GG.


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## N4GAmbush (Jan 12, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Good thing Obito can just tell Nagato about it then.



Once again, that's IF he know's about it.



Bonly said:


> No Gai is the only person who trained to fight the Sharingan by looking at ones feet. People can easily look at a persons body(not directly at the eyes themselves) and fight normally.



Show me where anyone in Naruto ever fought without looking someone in the eyes please. Kabuto had to cover his retinas so he didn't look at Itachi's eyes, it's something your body automatically does and IIRC Itachi doesn't need to look at someone for genjutsu anyways as seen with Orochimaru.



Bonly said:


> Good thing Obito can just tell Nagato about it then.
> By using Kamui to get inside of it and suck Itachi on up.



I expected that answer... too bad a susanoo is solid so the moment obito materializes he's getting impaled. 



Bonly said:


> No you're overrating Sasori. Sasori's attacking speed is in no way,shape, or form fast enough to give Obito any trouble. Minato was on his head here in the middle of the village. When Minato used FTG he went somewhere outside of the village or the outskirts it seems and Obito was right behind him in a few seconds. Here Onoki is a few inches/feet in front of Sasuke when he fires off Jinton and Onoki thinks he killed Sasuke but turns out that Obito saved him. This means that Obito popped up via Kamui, grabbed Sasuke, sucked Sasuke up via Kamui and warped himself via Kamui all before Onoki Jinton could touch either of the two right in front of Onoki face and he saw nothing. If you actually think Sasori's attack speed will give Obitto any problem just because Sasori can throw a shitload of things at once then you are overrating his attack speed.



Indeed but my point is, Obito has to materialize to attack, correct? So if Sasori can create something like [this] on the battlefield, no matter how fast Obito may be, he's still going to get impaled my something.



Bonly said:


> Obito was unable to warp anyone because they had a good counter against his Kamui but in case you think he can't suck up someone then just think about Obito popping up close to one of them and using his large ass Katon to kill them.



So Guy can avoid being kamui'd but nobody in the akatsuki has nun-chucks so it's over for them right? Makes sense...



Bonly said:


> Rinnegan Obito vs Itachi is not a good fight. Obito can easily use his flame barrier to keep Itachi in and eventually take him out. He can let his paths do the work and take them all out, he can use GM to distract Itachi while he gets close to warp him, he can rip out his soul with Human path if he gets close enough and he can do much more to the point that it becomes a rape. You can give him three other Akatsuki members and they still go down. They don't have what it takes to put down the path which has the Jins powers, a Sharingan+Rinnegan, have the regen since they are Edo and deal with everything Obito himself can do as well. Hell you can take away the paths and he can still do it, I don't think you have a good understanding of how strong Obito really is.



Itachi


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## Sadgoob (Jan 12, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> A Kabuto controlled healthy, mobile Nagato could take out KCM Naruto, Killer B and Edo Itachi.



Very unlikely.


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## Bonly (Jan 12, 2014)

Lawrence777 said:


> Bonly, I'm sure Nagato can counter _some_ of Akatsuki's jutsu using Preta path's abilities.
> 
> He can counter any attack as long as it's still in ninjutsu form as it reaches him. Attacks like these:
> 
> ...



That's neat and all but when I said "Obito and Nagato who have a counter for damn near(if not all) everything they can do," I referred to there entire arsenal so whether Nagato can or can't absorb something doesn't matter as much as he has ST and other things. I see you say " As long as they coordinate there attacks he won't be able to defend against all of them." but what if Nagato uses Asura's path rocket boots to fly out of range as well as Asura paths missiles and lasers? Could he not use them to gain the extra five seconds for ST to work again? I don't even see why Obito would need to suck up Nagato when Nagato has a good enough defense himself.


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## Lawrence777 (Jan 12, 2014)

Can't be serious lol. There only chance at victory here is CST or CT, they have no chance in a conventional battle here. 

Nagato's not soloing Orochimaru/Sasori/Deidara/Hidan/Konan/Kakuzu/Kisame altogether while Obito fights Itachi.

Nagato doesn't have enough defense to survive without Obito's kamui here either, and Obito's Kamui is slower when phasing an individual besides himself. 
lol, this thread is making me laugh irl <_<;
edit: ill reply soon bonly


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## Bonly (Jan 12, 2014)

N4GAmbush said:


> Once again, that's IF he know's about it.



He does have knowledge on it.




> Show me where anyone in Naruto ever fought without looking someone in the eyes please.



It's impossible as we don't see Kishi making everyone look into each other eyes. All we see is people look at each others general direction. Are you suggesting that people can't look at the torso and fight?



> Kabuto had to cover his retinas so he didn't look at Itachi's eyes, it's something your body automatically does and IIRC Itachi doesn't need to look at someone for genjutsu anyways as seen with Orochimaru.



No ones body doesn't automatically does, I'm not even sure where you got that from.



> I expected that answer... too bad a susanoo is solid so the moment obito materializes he's getting impaled.



Yeah I knew you would go that pathm I hoped you would have realize that Itachi's Susanoo doesn't have a bottom which Obito can just come up from, just like right here which means he could get inside of it.



> Indeed but my point is, Obito has to materialize to attack, correct? So if Sasori can create something like [this] on the battlefield, no matter how fast Obito may be, he's still going to get impaled my something.



Because Obito can't still in box land until the attack stop, lets also ignore that Sasori would hit his own teammates and Sasori would have to do this faster then Obito can move/react while we're at it.





> So Guy can avoid being kamui'd but nobody in the akatsuki has nun-chucks so it's over for them right? Makes sense...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Welp you just proved you're a troll, no need to reply back because I can tell you I won't reply to you. Also concession accepted.


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## Lawrence777 (Jan 12, 2014)

> That's neat and all but when I said "Obito and Nagato who have a counter for damn near(if not all) everything they can do," I referred to there entire arsenal so whether Nagato can or can't absorb something doesn't matter as much as he has ST and other things.


Nagato can't absorb Deidara's explosions, Konan's exposions, any of sasori's attacks, any of Orochimaru's attacks. Shinra Tensei can only be used every 5 seconds.



> I see you say " As long as they coordinate there attacks he won't be able to defend against all of them." but what if Nagato uses Asura's path rocket boots to fly out of range as well as Asura paths missiles and lasers?


We don't know if Nagato can sustain flight with rocket boots. Asura path's missiles can be countered by any number of ninjutsu from kisame or kakuzu or konan or shielded by orochimaru. They may allow him a moment's respite though to be fair.



> Could he not use them to gain the extra five seconds for ST to work again? I don't even see why Obito would need to suck up Nagato when Nagato has a good enough defense himself.


Nagato's defenses aren't adequate at all in this situation. A good share of there attacks can only be countered by shinra tensei, which consequently can only be used once every 5 seconds. Konan can literally wait for the first shinra tensei, then patch an explosive tag onto the side of his head during the down time.


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## N4GAmbush (Jan 12, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Welp you just proved you're a troll, no need to reply back because I can tell you I won't reply to you. Also concession accepted.



Obviously kidding, I was just helping that one kid out...

Anyways, I only said that because I'm leaving and yeah... Sorry dude, wish I could continue this discussion. 

EDIT: I'll be back for more once I'm done with my movie, until then I leave Lawrence777 in charge.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 12, 2014)

Strategoob said:


> Very unlikely.



The implication says it is likely. :WOW


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## Bonly (Jan 12, 2014)

Lawrence777 said:


> Nagato can't absorb Deidara's explosions, Konan's exposions, any of sasori's attacks, any of Orochimaru's attacks. Shinra Tensei can only be used every 5 seconds.



Is ST not a counter to what they can do?




> We don't know if Nagato can sustain flight with rocket boots.



If it can make him fly vertically without any signs that he can't sustain it for long then what suggest it can't sustain flight?



> Asura path's missiles can be countered by any number of ninjutsu from kisame or kakuzu or konan or shielded by orochimaru. They may allow him a moment's respite though to be fair.



Glad you agree.



> Nagato's defenses aren't adequate at all in this situation. A good share of there attacks can only be countered by shinra tensei, which consequently can only be used once every 5 seconds.



Preta path, Asura path, Deva path, and Animal path is a great defense in which is adequate as their numbers will only get smaller and smaller with Obito going on the offense.



> Konan can literally wait for the first shinra tensei, *then patch an explosive tag onto the side of his head during the down time.*



 
Are you actually being serious or trolling?


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 12, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Is ST not a counter to what they can do?



There are numerous high class opponents here, they can litterally attack one after the other. Deidara can guide his missiles precisely right after Nagato uses the initial ST. 






> Preta path, Asura path, Deva path, and Animal path is a great defense in which is adequate as their numbers will only get smaller and smaller with Obito going on the offense.



No lol, its as simply as looking over at any of Nagato's Summons for Itachi to burn them down, they are just big targets for Sasoris or Orochimarus poison while Orochimaru himself has something like Manda which can dig underground. Deidara is the perfect counter to both Deva and Preta path while ST is absoulty needed to counter Sasoris fast Iron Sand attacks. 




> Are you actually being serious or trolling?



She can actually do that once the initial ST is used and someone like Kakazu is distracting Nagato.


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## Lawrence777 (Jan 12, 2014)

> If it can make him fly vertically without any signs that he can't sustain it for long then what suggest it can't sustain flight?


I'm not familiar with this can you link me? You maybe right but I don't remember asura flying.



> Is ST not a counter to what they can do?
> Preta path, Asura path, Deva path, and Animal path is a great defense in which is adequate as their numbers will only get smaller and smaller with Obito going on the offense.


Preta Path doesn't work against all there attacks. We don't know how frequently he can shoot Asura Path's offensives. Deva path we've discussed, can only be used once every 5 seconds. 

If they use 2 attacks that can't be absorbed by preta, while his asura mode is recharging, and deva path is on cooldown, do you agree Nagato would be hit? 



> Are you actually being serious or trolling?


Nagato vs Orochimaru/Deidara/Sasori/Kisame/Kakuzu/Hidan/Konan is trolling.
I don't entirely see where your coming from. Do you think she's too slow or something or perhaps you don't think an explosive to the head would wound him? It can't possibly be speed considering she patched Obito and Obito is much harder to patch than Nagato.


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## LostSelf (Jan 12, 2014)

N4GAmbush said:


> Deidara, Orochimaru, Kisame, and Hidan vs Nagato.



All of them would be blown back a considerable distance, Kisame would probably die, Hidan's bones would all be shattered to do much, Orochimaru would be far away injured, and by the time he comes back Nagato would've killed Deidara.



> Also, I think the OP forgot that Sasuke, Jugo, and Karin were in the akatsuki as well.



Now that would be a bit too much.



> I was just saying that if he died it wouldn't matter much for him because he's able to come back eventually. He wouldn't be back in time to finish the fight though... As you said, ST probably wouldn't kill Orochimaru because he was able to survive from Naruto bitch slapping him a whole mile through a forest.



Probably wouldn't, however, ST would cause him more damage than what Naruto caused to him.



> The villagers may have indeed seen the path but my point is that the people who said they didn't know what hit them (Sakura and Tsunade) didn't. If they were looking directly at the deva path when he did it than that quote would be more creditable IMO.



Tsunade was seeing Deva path flying because she was following him and calling him. The other villagers probably didn't. What i tried to say is that even if the villagers saw Deva, they would still not react accordingly to the attack because it was too fast even for Tsunade, who was seeing and pursuing Pain, and ST cannot be seen.

I added Sakura just to show you that not only Tsunade didn't know what hit her.


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## Bonly (Jan 12, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> There are numerous high class opponents here, they can litterally attack one after the other. Deidara can guide his missiles precisely right after Nagato uses the initial ST.



That's neat that they are high level but Nagato can counter what they throw at him one after another. Deidara uses a guided missile? Nagato destroys it with his laser.







> No lol, its as simply as looking over at any of Nagato's Summons for Itachi to burn them down, they are just big targets for Sasoris or Orochimarus poison while Orochimaru himself has something like Manda which can dig underground.



All of which distracts the Akatsuki members and non of them can find the lizard once it goes invisible without some form of friendly fire going on.



> Deidara is the perfect counter to both Deva and Preta path while ST is absoulty needed to counter Sasoris fast Iron Sand attacks.



Deidara in not the perfect counter at all, all his attacks get pushed away. If you referr to the cool down then Nagato has other paths he can use. Nagato can use preta path on Sasori's sand attacks.




> She can actually do that once the initial ST is used and someone like Kakazu is distracting Nagato.



Konan solo Nagato?


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## Lawrence777 (Jan 12, 2014)

Why can't Konan attach her paper to Nagato within 5 seconds of his last shinra tensei if she's actively waiting for the opening after he has used shinra tensei?


Iron sand should be similar to Gaara's stand, which Preta is incapable of absorbing. 
Recall, Madara is actively absorbing Mei's suiton, and has preta active, yet is still entrapped by Gaara's sand FRONT.


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## Bonly (Jan 12, 2014)

Lawrence777 said:


> I'm not familiar with this can you link me? You maybe right but I don't remember asura flying.



Already linked it to you in my first reply to you. 

Edit: My mistake, I meant to say horizontally not vertically  



> Preta Path doesn't work against all there attacks. We don't know how frequently he can shoot Asura Path's offensives. Deva path we've discussed, can only be used once every 5 seconds.



But can he or can he not use each of what you said to counter something they can? 



> If they use 2 attacks that can't be absorbed by preta, while his asura mode is recharging, and deva path is on cooldown, do you agree Nagato would be hit?



When was it stated that his Asura path needs to recharge?



> Nagato vs Orochimaru/Deidara/Sasori/Kisame/Kakuzu/Hidan/Konan is trolling.
> I don't entirely see where your coming from. Do you think she's too slow or something or perhaps you don't think an explosive to the head would wound him? It can't possibly be speed considering she patched Obito and Obito is much harder to patch than Nagato.



Yes, yes she is to slow. She had to gather a shit load of tags(600 billion of them IIRC) to have a chance at catching Obito when he didn't have knowledge(which he does here) and he was underestimating her. She doesn't have that amount here and yes her speed with them are slow, they aren't going to catch Nagato after he uses a ST.



Lawrence777 said:


> Iron sand should be similar to Gaara's stand, which Preta is incapable of absorbing.
> Recall, Madara is actively absorbing Mei's suiton, and has preta active, yet is still entrapped by Gaara's sand FRONT.



Preta path sucks the chakra out of the sand rendering it useless, go look at when Madara first used the Rinnegan as an Edo.


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## Bansai (Jan 12, 2014)

I think the main problem here is that Nagato's Rinnegan can easily nullify any kind of offensive Ninjutsu. That's a fatal disadvantage for the rest of the Akatsuki, as the Akatsuki's strongest attacks are all Ninjutsu abilities.

Konan will be absolutely or at least close to being useless here, as her paper will simply be absorbed and she has not shown any other combat abilities. The same goes for Deidara, as the clay he uses is nothing but a Ninjutsu ability.
Kisame won't be that useful either. He may be capable of harming Nagato and Obito with his sword, be he won't be able to do anything with his impressive Suiton Jutsus. Kakuzu isn't that much of a useful combatant either when it comes to Taijutsu. As almost every Akatsuki member, Kakuzu too uses Ninjutsu abilities to fight his opponent, and that makes him almost useless. Orochimaru and Itachi also specialize in using Ninjutsu abilities, though I do think that Itachi's Susano'o and Genjutsu abilities will be of use here.
Hidan is the only one whose combat skills are suitable to fight a Rinnegan user, but Hidan is by far not strong enough to face Nagato and Obito in combat. 

I'm not saying that the Akatsuki leaders are superior to the rest of the Akatsuki, but the rest of the Akatsuki mainly have shinobi whose fighting style is based on Ninjutsu. Very powerful Ninjutsu, but still just Ninjutsu. When fighting a Rinnegan user, Ninjutsu abilities mean nothing, no matter how powerful they are.


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## Lawrence777 (Jan 12, 2014)

> Already linked it to you in my first reply to you.


The scan depicts Asura shooting forward with his rockets boosts horizontally across the landscape for a short period of time. Are you of the opinion this proves he can fly vertically for a sustained period of time ?



> But can he or can he not use each of what you said to counter something they can?


No, he can't use each if they are on cooldown or recharging or not viable counters to said technique. 



> When was it stated that his Asura path needs to recharge?


We don't know at what frequency or how fast Asura's body can produce and launch missiles. Objectively speaking, if neither side knows how quickly he can do this, it shouldn't be included by either side. Unless you know he can generate and shoots missiles at an adequate enough pace to wait until shinra tensei recharges.



> Yes, yes she is to slow. She had to gather a shit load of tags(600 billion of them IIRC) to have a chance at catching Obito when he didn't have knowledge(which he does here) and he was underestimating her. She doesn't have that amount here and yes her speed with them are slow, they aren't going to catch Nagato after he uses a ST.


Nagato's going to be constantly keeping Preta active, blinded by debris and smoke from explosions whilst, fighting Hidan in cqc, while keeping an eye on attacks that must be repelled and not absorbed. Why can't Konan, who is specifically waiting for an opening to step in, patch him in a situation such as that? Konan preempted Obito from absorbing himself and forced him to cancel and phase to survive. I think your over exaggerating how slow she is.



> Preta path sucks the chakra out of the sand rendering it useless, go look at when Madara first used the Rinnegan as an Edo.


If Preta absorbs it, can you explain why Madara was still trapped by it despite having Preta up?

Bansai, Konan uses explosive paper tags. 
The Rinnegan cannot absorb things that are not ninjutsu.
Orochimaru's snakes cannot be absorbed either.
Neither can Jiongu wires or the explosion of Deidara's explosives.


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## Bonly (Jan 12, 2014)

Lawrence777 said:


> The scan depicts Asura shooting forward with his rockets boosts horizontally across the landscape for a short period of time. Are you of the opinion this proves he can fly vertically for a sustained period of time ?



Correct, I edited that in that in and yes I believe he fly vertically for a decent amount of time as nothing suggest otherwise. 




> No, he can't use each if they are on cooldown or recharging or not viable counters to said technique.




I'm not asking of you're opinion during the cool down or recharge time. I mean period. Can he not use ST to counter some of their jutsu when it works? Can he not use Preta to counter some of their jutsu? Can he not use Asura path ect.?



> We don't know at what frequency or how fast Asura's body can produce and launch missiles. Objectively speaking, if neither side knows how quickly he can do this, it shouldn't be included by either side. Unless you know he can generate and shoots missiles at an adequate enough pace to wait until shinra tensei recharges.



Nagato used his body to instantly form robotic arms and turned his hand into a canon in less then a page and you don't can't think of how fast Nagato can make more missiles after seeing how quickly he can add robotic parts logically just because you don't know the time for sure?



> Nagato's going to be constantly keeping Preta active, blinded by debris and smoke from explosions whilst, fighting Hidan in cqc, while keeping an eye on attacks that must be repelle3d and not absorbed.



If Nagato had to deal with all that then I'd agree that he may have a problem but you seem to constantly be ignoring the fact that he doesn't have to deal with all of this by himself as he has Obito here to help him.  



> Why can't Konan, who is specifically waiting for an opening to step in, patch him in a situation such as that?



Because her paper hasn't been shown nor hinted to be fast enough to do such a thing. If Nagato uses ST then everything around will get pushed meaning any paper near him will be as well so unless you think 



> Konan preempted Obito from absorbing himself and forced him to cancel and phase to survive. I think your over exaggerating how slow she is.



Yes she did when she had over 600 billion tags surrounding him constantly near him, which she doesn't have here.



> If Preta absorbs it, can you explain why Madara was still trapped by it despite having Preta up?



Did you not read what the Kages were saying?


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 12, 2014)

Bonly said:


> That's neat that they are high level but Nagato can counter what they throw at him one after another. Deidara uses a guided missile? Nagato destroys it with his laser.



No he can't, THESE fast guided missiles easily work around Nagato's laser. 









> All of which distracts the Akatsuki members and non of them can find the lizard once it goes invisible without some form of friendly fire going on.



Itachi would be able to see it, Orochimaru would be able to as well (snakes sense through their tongue) and Samehada senses large amounts of chakra, it would be able to guide Kisame to Nagato who would be in the lizard. 




> Deidara in not the perfect counter at all, all his attacks get pushed away. If you referr to the cool down then Nagato has other paths he can use. Nagato can use preta path on Sasori's sand attacks.



No? What will Nagato do if Deidara launches three at once, Nagato uses ST and then he sends another 3 fast missiles? Sasori's sand attacks would not be comepletly absorbed as there there is a portion of them that a not made out of chakra, just like Gaara's sand. 





> Konan solo Nagato?



Not at all, in a 1 V 1 Nagato easily pushes her around with ST but with this many people 5 seconds can easily get exploited.


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## Bonly (Jan 12, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> No he can't, THESE fast guided missiles easily work around Nagato's laser.



Link doesn't work for me but I'm assuming it's when Deidara used his bombs to go around Gaara's large chakra arms due to the chapter. If that is correct then yes yes Nagato can with his large laser which Nagato can move. 




> Itachi would be able to see it, Orochimaru would be able to as well (snakes sense through their tongue) and Samehada senses large amounts of chakra, it would be able to guide Kisame to Nagato who would be in the lizard.


 
Nothing suggest any would. Itachi already has a shown which suggest he can't see it. Nothing suggest that the snakes can sense out the lizard with this many people around but i'd be willing to say it could. Although nothing suggest Samehada would sense him seeing as how it failed to sense Jiraiya coming or give B any hints when fighting the other Jins.




> No? What will Nagato do if Deidara launches three at once, Nagato uses ST and then he sends another 3 fast missiles?



He uses Asura path.



> Sasori's sand attacks would not be comepletly absorbed as there there is a portion of them that a not made out of chakra, just like Gaara's sand.



Right they won't be absorbed, the chakra will be rendering them useless if they hit the barrier.



> Not at all, in a 1 V 1 Nagato easily pushes her around with ST but with this many people 5 seconds can easily get exploited.



If Nagato reactions we're great then I'd agree with you but sadly he does and with his other paths and his chakra sensing and what not, it's not looking like it's going to get "easily exploited" when their numbers will only constantly go down as Obito takes them out.


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## Joakim3 (Jan 12, 2014)

Lawrence777 said:


> The scan depicts Asura shooting forward with his rockets boosts horizontally across the landscape for a short period of time. Are you of the opinion this proves he can fly vertically for a sustained period of time ?



Would it matter? Nagato can levitate via Tendo or use the Bird summon. Shurado powers would just give him greater speed and mobility in conjunction with the former



Lawrence777 said:


> No, he can't use each if they are on cooldown or recharging or not viable counters to said technique.



Everything bar Deidara's explosions, Sasori's weapons, Kakuzu's Jiongu & Konan's paper are foddered via _Fujutsu kuyin_.

They literally only have 4 ways to harm Nagato. All of which can be stopped by some combo of _Shinra Tensei_, Gedo Mazo, 8+ summons & Shurado powers discounting Obito interfering 



Lawrence777 said:


> We don't know at what frequency or how fast Asura's body can produce and launch missiles. Objectively speaking, if neither side knows how quickly he can do this, it shouldn't be included by either side. Unless you know he can generate and shoots missiles at an adequate enough pace to wait until shinra tensei recharges.



Nagato can use 4 at a time while said path was getting 1/6 of his chakra at any given point during it's fights. The man has chakra levels of low tier biju and you don't think he can spam missiles the way Naruto spams Rasengans?



Lawrence777 said:


> Nagato's going to be constantly keeping Preta active, blinded by debris and smoke from explosions whilst, fighting Hidan in cqc, while keeping an eye on attacks that must be repelled and not absorbed. Why can't Konan, who is specifically waiting for an opening to step in, patch him in a situation such as that? Konan preempted Obito from absorbing himself and forced him to cancel and phase to survive. I think your over exaggerating how slow she is.



You act like keep _Fujutsu Kuyin_ up is going to be tiresome? All it would be doing is refueling him through the fight. Hidan would be foddered by _Shurado_ powers within seconds if he even contemplated going into CqC. Nagato can sense via _Ujizokai no Jutsu_ + his regular sensing. A dust cloud is meaning less when there are 8 summons running around providing Nagato with _8 billion_ degree vision something Jiraiya found out the hard way. 

Nagato is not being blindsided by anything in this match. Sure Konan isn't slow but Obito also knows what he's up against know and won't be bull shitting assuming he'd leave Nagato's side.... which is counter effective. 



Lawrence777 said:


> If Preta absorbs it, can you explain why Madara was still trapped by it despite having Preta up?



He wasn't trapped all that was happening was they where slowing the absorption down long enough to the point Madara could be sealed before freeing himself.



Lawrence777 said:


> Bansai, Konan uses explosive paper tags.
> The Rinnegan cannot absorb things that are not ninjutsu.



Which Nagato would use the Panda summon to defend against or at worst... tank them?



Lawrence777 said:


> Orochimaru's snakes cannot be absorbed either.



They can be vaporized by _Laser Explosion_ though



Lawrence777 said:


> Neither can Jiongu wires or the explosion of Deidara's explosives.



_Jiongu_ gets fodderized by Shurado powers when Nagato pops out some saws and drills, and anything <C2 is getting lol tanked. If Deidara uses C2-C3 he runs the risk of friendly fire something even he isn't crazy enough to do


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 12, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Link doesn't work for me but I'm assuming it's when Deidara used his bombs to go around Gaara's large chakra arms due to the chapter. If that is correct then yes yes Nagato can with his large laser which Nagato can move.



Those are not lazers, they are missiles and Nagato won't be able to pull that off while fighting several other members at the same time. 






> Nothing suggest any would. Itachi already has a shown which suggest he can't see it. Nothing suggest that the snakes can sense out the lizard with this many people around but i'd be willing to say it could. Although nothing suggest Samehada would sense him seeing as how it failed to sense Jiraiya coming or give B any hints when fighting the other Jins.



You do realize that the chameleon does not mask I chakra right? It simply turns invisible to the naked eye but the chakra is still there, Sharingan sees that kind of stuff, that's one of its primary functions. Snakes sense heat, Nagato would be sensed inside the chameleon. Samehada led Kisame to Bee, Nagato has Biju level chakra as well. 






> He uses Asura path.



And then what does he do about Hidan charging at him while Kakazu attacks from behind all the while using his Katon heart to attack from behind Hidan? There are simply too many combinations they can do to take out Nagato, he does to stand a chance agaisnt all of them. 





> Right they won't be absorbed, the chakra will be rendering them useless if they hit the barrier.



Yes, but how would Nagato know to use it when he is fighting another opponent? 





> If Nagato reactions we're great then I'd agree with you but sadly he does and with his other paths and his chakra sensing and what not, it's not looking like it's going to get "easily exploited" when their numbers will only constantly go down as Obito takes them out.



Obito is not taking anyone out if Itachi is occupying him. There are simply way too many numbers, hell what happened if Sasori starts fighting Nagato while Deidara uses C4? Or Deidara's Exploding Shadow clone follows by Konan's Exploding tag barrage followed by Sasoris shooting poison weapons.


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## Jagger (Jan 12, 2014)

N4GAmbush said:


> Indeed he does, however, Orochimaru's Eight Brances Technique would be enough to deal with most of them, with the exception of Nagato's Giant Multi-Headed Dog. Deidara could incinerate it with his explosive clay though so there is no worries and IIRC that would work because Itachi used Amaterasu to destroy it, right? You underestimate Orochimaru...


I'm not underestimating anyone here. You seem to exclude Nagato out of equation when you're trying to work in this scenario of yours. Orochimaru can't deal with the summons at the same time they deal with a flying and dangerous Nagato trying to blow them up or killing them one by one.

The animals aren't supposed to take out any of the Akatsuki (excluding Hidan, most likely), but are meant to be a distraction.




> Agreed, if he chooses to fly... However, Deidara can be of great assistance in this situation.
> 
> 
> 
> Because he was crying like a little bitch when his arm got ripped off?


Getting your arm ripped off is different from your entire body getting destroyed by a cannon.




> Even so, that's only if Nagato manages to take out Deidara first but it's more likely that he'd have to fight Oro and Kisame as they are close range fighters and Deidara is long range and can fight from a distance...


The only real threat here for Nagato is Kisame with his techniques and his Water Dome, but, even then, it will kind of backfire as his teammates would obviously be affected by it as well.


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 12, 2014)

Jagger said:


> I'm not underestimating anyone here. You seem to exclude Nagato out of equation when you're trying to work in this scenario of yours. Orochimaru can't deal with the summons at the same time they deal with a flying and dangerous Nagato trying to blow them up or killing them one by one.



Orochimaru *specializes* in summons, taking out the summons would not be a problem. Flying Nagato? Do you mean on a bird? That bird gets shot down in a heartbeat.





> The only real threat here for Nagato is Kisame with his techniques and his Water Dome, but, even then, it will kind of backfire as his teammates would obviously be affected by it as well.



Sasori and Deidara are just as much of a threat here due to the nature of their attacks. What if Kisame used the WaterDome while Deidara threw a C3 in there? Kill the both of them.


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## Bonly (Jan 12, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Those are not lazers, they are missiles and Nagato won't be able to pull that off while fighting several other members at the same time.



Those are missiles? When Nagato uses Asura path for the missiles he pulled out his arm and you see the missiles then he fires them off. When Nagato used Asura path in the link I showed you he opened his head to be followed by this(which he was gonna use here). From what I've seen most people call that his laser instead of his missiles. But you say he won't have time to do such but when you look here Nagato made it pretty damn fast, not sure how you think he won't have time to do it here.






> You do realize that the chameleon does not mask I chakra right? It simply turns invisible to the naked eye but the chakra is still there, Sharingan sees that kind of stuff, that's one of its primary functions.



Already went over this quite a bit in the past but to keep it short I don't believe that would work otherwise Itachi wouldn't have been blindsided by Nagato along with Naruto.



> Snakes sense heat, Nagato would be sensed inside the chameleon. Samehada led Kisame to Bee, Nagato has Biju level chakra as well.



And Samehada failed to notice the Jins and Jiraiya who have alot of chakra. That one example doesn't do much for me.






> And then what does he do about Hidan charging at him while Kakazu attacks from behind all the while using his Katon heart to attack from behind Hidan? There are simply too many combinations they can do to take out Nagato, he does to stand a chance agaisnt all of them.



Asura path can make more faces which means more Rinnegan eyes to help him see whats going on along with his chakra sensing. Add in extra arms for more large lasers going off along with rocket boots and Asura path is looking good to deal with what you mentioned. 





> Yes, but how would Nagato know to use it when he is fighting another opponent?



He is a chakra sensing, no reason to assume to he can't sense the attack coming if he can't see it coming.





> Obito is not taking anyone out if Itachi is occupying him.



Itachi isn't strong enough to occupy Obito to where Nagato would have to deal with the rest of the group as you seem to think. 



> There are simply way too many numbers, hell what happened if Sasori starts fighting Nagato while Deidara uses C4? Or Deidara's Exploding Shadow clone follows by Konan's Exploding tag barrage followed by Sasoris shooting poison weapons.



Sasori isn't strong enough to do much if he does start to fight and Nagato's Rinnegan can see chakra thus he can see the AoE of C4 which he can dodge it. Deidara's clone along with Konan explosive tags and Sasori's weapons gets dodged/ST/Asura path away casually.


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 12, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Those are missiles? When Nagato uses Asura path for the missiles he pulled out his arm and you see the missiles then he fires them off. When Nagato used Asura path in the link I showed you he opened his head to be followed by this(which he was gonna use here). From what I've seen most people call that his laser instead of his missiles. But you say he won't have time to do such but when you look here Nagato made it pretty damn fast, not sure how you think he won't have time to do it here.



Your right, I made a mistake there but Nagato would not be able to do it in time if he is getting distracted by another Akstsuki member. 






> Already went over this quite a bit in the past but to keep it short I don't believe that would work otherwise Itachi wouldn't have been blindsided by Nagato along with Naruto.



Itachi was not blindsided, Naruto WAS.




> And Samehada failed to notice the Jins and Jiraiya who have alot of chakra. That one example doesn't do much for me.



Failed to notice the Jins? You mean when they where casually jumping from tree to tree? I don't think it was hungry as Kisame stated that it tracked Bee down because it was hungry  for his chakra, it was simply not in the right mind-state seeing as how Kisame had more chakra then Jiraiya and Bee had more chakra then any of the Edo Jins. 




> Asura path can make more faces which means more Rinnegan eyes to help him see whats going on along with his chakra sensing. Add in extra arms for more large lasers going off along with rocket boots and Asura path is looking good to deal with what you mentioned.



No your overrating Asura here, have extra heads won't help him deal with them coming from both sides without using ST. And once he does he gets barraged by Deidara, Konan, Kisame, Orochimaru and Sasori. Its actually a very silly thought that he can take on those mentioned people. 





> He is a chakra sensing, no reason to assume to he can't sense the attack coming if he can't see it coming.



He won't be able to tell what's going on, his chakra sensing did not help him against the Totsuka blade, I'm fairly certain he has to concentrate to use his sensing which won't be able to in the midst of fighting all these people.  






> Itachi isn't strong enough to occupy Obito to where Nagato would have to deal with the rest of the group as you seem to think.



Yes he is, someone as smart as him would be able to take down Obito given the proper intel. 





> Sasori isn't strong enough to do much if he does start to fight and Nagato's Rinnegan can see chakra thus he can see the AoE of C4 which he can dodge it. Deidara's clone along with Konan explosive tags and Sasori's weapons gets dodged/ST/Asura path away casually.



Like I said, its an activated effect. Nagato would ST the exploding clone and then the others barrage him with there attacks. Asura won't be saving him from them, and Nagato has not displayed the necessary feats to be able to dodge all that, hardly anyone has,


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## Bonly (Jan 12, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Your right, I made a mistake there but Nagato would not be able to do it in time if he is getting distracted by another Akstsuki member.



Nagato easily made an arm out of an already existing arm and formed it into his head canon that he had used via the actually Asura path himself in seconds yet he won't be able to here if he wants?






> Itachi was not blindsided, Naruto WAS.


 
That's right, Itachi was looking at the direction where Nagato was(behind Naruto) which means he didn't give any hints at all that Nagato was coming, yup more impressive. I just love using that set up  




> Failed to notice the Jins? You mean when they where casually jumping from tree to tree? I don't think it was hungry as Kisame stated that it tracked Bee down because it was hungry  for his chakra, it was simply not in the right mind-state seeing as how Kisame had more chakra then Jiraiya and Bee had more chakra then any of the Edo Jins.



Still can't see the link.




> No your overrating Asura here, have extra heads won't help him deal with them coming from both sides without using ST. And once he does he gets barraged by Deidara, Konan, Kisame, Orochimaru and Sasori.



Not at all, you just underrate. It gives him those huge AoE lasers, rocket boost, missiles, and robotic limbs along with his other paths and skills, he can easily use those to survive the five seconds until he gets ST back. 



> Its actually a very silly thought that he can take on those mentioned people.



If Nagato wasn't top tier with a counter against almost(if not) all of what they could do then I'd agree with you but since he is a top tier with all of those it doesn't seem silly at all.



> He won't be able to tell what's going on, his chakra sensing did not help him against the Totsuka blade, I'm fairly certain he has to concentrate to use his sensing which won't be able to in the midst of fighting all these people.



Nagato wasn't in control of his Edo body, Kabuto took full control so that point doesn't help you. 



> Yes he is, someone as smart as him would be able to take down Obito given the proper intel.



Sadly he isn't and seeing as Obito has damn near full knowledge on most people here and what they can do, Itachi chances of being able to occupie him drop pretty much to zero when one looks at how fast+far Obito can travel with Kamui if he wants. Itachi's just isn't strong enough to hold him down.





> Like I said, its an activated effect. Nagato would ST the exploding clone and then the others barrage him with there attacks. Asura won't be saving him from them, and Nagato has not displayed the necessary feats to be able to dodge all that, hardly anyone has,



When you actually back up what you said then I'd agree but so far you haven't said anything that Nagato couldn't counter as far as I'm concern


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 13, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Nagato easily made an arm out of an already existing arm and formed it into his head canon that he had used via the actually Asura path himself in seconds yet he won't be able to here if he wants?



No he won't have time if he is fighting multiple opponents at once, I just don't understand how you do not see Nagato getting overwhelmed. 








> That's right, Itachi was looking at the direction where Nagato was(behind Naruto) which means he didn't give any hints at all that Nagato was coming, yup more impressive. I just love using that set up



For the sake of the plot..........fact is, it does not mask its chakra so Itachi can see it. 






> Still can't see the link.



Go to the chapter and page then. 






> Not at all, you just underrate. It gives him those huge AoE lasers, rocket boost, missiles, and robotic limbs along with his other paths and skills, he can easily use those to survive the five seconds until he gets ST back.



No he can't, Human, Nakara and Preta would be useless, he can't fend off a horde of Akatsuki members with Animal and Asura alone, especially since his animals would get slaughtered one by one.  





> If Nagato wasn't top tier with a counter against almost(if not) all of what they could do then I'd agree with you but since he is a top tier with all of those it doesn't seem silly at all.



In a 1 V 1 situation he could beat any of them. Not a problem, but together he can't. He gets overwhelmed quicker then Madara got overwhelmed by the Kages combos. Its simply not even a question, all they have to do is fire of them things one by one. 





> Nagato wasn't in control of his Edo body, Kabuto took full control so that point doesn't help you.



Ok Nagato did not sense Itachi using Ametarasu on him..............had he been sensing he would have avoided it. 





> Sadly he isn't and seeing as Obito has damn near full knowledge on most people here and what they can do, Itachi chances of being able to occupie him drop pretty much to zero when one looks at how fast+far Obito can travel with Kamui if he wants. Itachi's just isn't strong enough to hold him down.



Did you really just say Itachi is not smart............Itachi is mor ethen strong enough to hold him down. His unrecognizably fast hands seals and stratergys will help  him beat Obito, if Konan can severally injure him then so can Itachi. 






> When you actually back up what you said then I'd agree but so far you haven't said anything that Nagato couldn't counter as far as I'm concern



Yes I have, wether you chose to ignore it or not is not my problem.


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## Bonly (Jan 13, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> No he won't have time if he is fighting multiple opponents at once, I just don't understand how you do not see Nagato getting overwhelmed.



I just showed told you(and showed you earlier) how fast he can make it. I accept your concession as you failed to give an actually reason why he can't make it as "fighting multiple people" isn't good enough to suggest he can't do that.




> For the sake of the plot..........fact is, it does not mask its chakra so Itachi can see it.



Concession accepted as already provided he didn't see it.






> Go to the chapter and page then.



That's your job, not mine.






> No he can't, Human, Nakara and Preta would be useless, he can't fend off a horde of Akatsuki members with Animal and Asura alone, especially since his animals would get slaughtered one by one.



Concession accepted as you have yet again failed to provide an actual good reason why he can't use them to buy five seconds.




> In a 1 V 1 situation he could beat any of them. Not a problem, but together he can't. He gets overwhelmed quicker then Madara got overwhelmed by the Kages combos. Its simply not even a question, all they have to do is fire of them things one by one.




Concession accepted as the "fire all at once" isn't an actual good reason when he has things to counter.




> Ok Nagato did not sense Itachi using Ametarasu on him..............had he been sensing he would have avoided it.



He already sensed the pressure of it before and in case you didn't realize it Nagato was an Edo Tensei. He has no reason to react to another Edo attacking him as they are suppose to be on the same side. Nice try though. 





> Did you really just say Itachi is not smart............Itachi is mor ethen strong enough to hold him down. His unrecognizably fast hands seals and stratergys will help  him beat Obito, if Konan can severally injure him then so can Itachi.



Concession accepted as you have failed to give an actual good reason as to why Itachi would stall him good a decent amount of time to the point where it would be Nagato vs the rest of the Akatsuki.  








> Yes I have, wether you chose to ignore it or not is not my problem.



No, no you haven't. Well we're pretty much done here as so far you haven't brought anything good to the table for why they win besides the number game when Nagato has a counter for everything and think Itachi would stall Obito(as if Obito can't easily change his target for some weird reason and just leave). If you bring up some actual good reasons then I'll reply back but if you just repeat the same thing(which is very likely) which have already been counter then we're down here.


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 13, 2014)

Bonly said:


> I just showed told you(and showed you earlier) how fast he can make it. I accept your concession as you failed to give an actually reason why he can't make it as "fighting multiple people" isn't good enough to suggest he can't do that.



What do you mean that is not go enough........if you can show me that he can make it while concentrating on another opponent(s) then I will concede. 






> Concession accepted as already provided he didn't see it.



HERE Jiraiya says it blends in with its surroundings turning invisible, no where does it state that it masks its chakra, which would be the only way it would be able to hide from Sharingan. 










> That's your job, not mine.



My job is to provide the links, which I did, If you cannot see it that's not my problem, its a concession on your part then. 








> Concession accepted as you have yet again failed to provide an actual good reason why he can't use them to buy five seconds.



You cannot simply say he can use them to buy him time without something to support the claim which is what you have done. Give support to your claim or its a concession on your part. 







> Concession accepted as the "fire all at once" isn't an actual good reason when he has things to counter.



Concession accepted as you have not provided any of the things he can counter with. 






> He already sensed the pressure of it before and in case you didn't realize it Nagato was an Edo Tensei. He has no reason to react to another Edo attacking him as they are suppose to be on the same side. Nice try though.



Fair enough 





> Concession accepted as you have failed to give an actual good reason as to why Itachi would stall him good a decent amount of time to the point where it would be Nagato vs the rest of the Akatsuki.



Support your claim, if you think Obito can beat Itachi then tell me how ( as you have yet to do so). Your the one that said Obito would help out Nagato after he is done with Itachi. 









> No, no you haven't. Well we're pretty much done here as so far you haven't brought anything good to the table for why they win besides the number game when Nagato has a counter for everything and think Itachi would stall Obito(as if Obito can't easily change his target for some weird reason and just leave). If you bring up some actual good reasons then I'll reply back but if you just repeat the same thing(which is very likely) which have already been counter then we're down here.



Concession accepted.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 13, 2014)

> Starting Distance: 200m
> Knowledge: Manga



Obito could just find Akatsuki and trap them in Uchiha Kaenjin after locating  and teleporting them with Kamui. Locating Akatsuki will be easy with Nagato's sensory skills. 

Then Obito after a few bits of trolling, Obito could warp Nagato in the middle so Nagato could use a powerful enough ST to push everything (except Obito) towards the burning walls of the barrier. 

Though, without Pain Rikudou, Obito could simply troll by using a powerful ST himself after warping inside the barrier.


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## Arthurthegrimreaper (Mar 12, 2017)

I think the akatsuki team will win.Itachi can protect all the other members with his yata and all other members can provide him chakra.I think most people are over rating the leaders.they can't even use their paths.from what I see itachi can hold off nagato or obito.as itachi holds off any of them,the other members can finish off the other one.people are seriously under estimating the other members powers.while itachi fights one of the two,the other one has to deal with like a 1 vs 7 battle.all of akatsuki members are extremely powerful.nobody will survive a 1 vs 7 battle.after one of the leaders is finished off all the members will start attacking the left over leader.then they will win.I don't see any scenario where the leaders will win.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Icegaze (Mar 12, 2017)

ARGUS said:


> *Akatsuki vs The Leaders*
> 
> Nagato & Obito have gone berserk and the akatsuki members do not approve of their plan and so they start an all out battle
> 
> ...



Itachi Is the only ninja remotely threatening here 

Obito walks up to anyone of them and kamui GG

Or nagato could just be an ass and summon GM and Low diff 

Nagato on his own can take on 
His team members bar itachi


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## Android (Mar 13, 2017)

That bump .
That rape thread .
Only one wosths a damn is Itachi and he gets crap on . Too much hax and firepower .
Nagato can solo if he went full power . He can use his friendly fire next to Obito no problem .
Together they rape .
Edit : @Joakim3 and his love for "  "
Never really understood why


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## Arthurthegrimreaper (Mar 14, 2017)

I respect your opinion icegaze but I have to slightly disagree they nagato can take on all of the akatsuki except itachi.however I look into it I see only one way in which the leaders wins.that is
Team akatsuki is in a circle formation with democrats in the middle.democrats becomes shocked to know who obito really was and accidentally fires his C4 .Itachi somehow sees through it and uses Susanoo.
Then the only ones to survive the explosion would be itachi,hidan and oro due to their immortality and also kakuzu because of  extra hearts.
Also obito warps himself and nagato into the kanji dimension to save themselves.
Although some of the akatsuki members survived they will be heavily wounds and would be unable to fight thus resulting in the leaders victory.


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## JiraiyaFlash (Mar 14, 2017)

Nagato almost absorb everything akatsuki sends
Obito almost avoid everything akatsuki sends
Except Kisame, Nagato and Obito has more stamina, chakra than everyone
Obito is has regen
Nagato has rinne tensei.. 
So they aint gonna die easily. 
CST gonna take out dudes like Sasori, Hidan & Konan
CT can finish this if its not (thanks to Deidara & Itachi) then can stall them then Obito can finish their jobs for good.

Itachi even use a couple amaterasu attempt just for Cerberus.. So his stamina gonna down. 

Leaders take this with mid diff.


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## Android (Mar 14, 2017)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> Nagato has rinne tensei..


He doesn't need that

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Troyse22 (Mar 14, 2017)

ARGUS said:


> *Akatsuki vs The Leaders*
> 
> Nagato & Obito have gone berserk and the akatsuki members do not approve of their plan and so they start an all out battle
> 
> ...



I think that Itachi and Kisame could push Nagato and Obito to extreme-maximum difficulty (i'm talking Nagato dying before Obito finishes them off) kind of thing, with Obito himself almost dying. Nagato and Obito beat Itachi and Kisame by a hair, with the rest of the Akatsuki behind Itachi and Kisame, the Akatsuki should have it with maximum difficulty.

Extemely close battle that can go either way imo.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Troyse22 (Mar 14, 2017)

Got somefin to say @The Death & The Strawberry oh wait that's right it doesn't matter cause you're on ignore


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 15, 2017)

Dude...this bump is straight up necromancy...

Been dead for over 3 years...just let it end

Ill throw in my 2 cents tho i guess...

Nagato solos...Obito isnt needed

No one in akatsuki aside from Itachi even merits his attention, and itachi BARELY warrants his attention, the rest straight up die in the crossfire.



Troyse22 said:


> I think that Itachi and Kisame could push Nagato and Obito to extreme-maximum difficulty (i'm talking Nagato dying before Obito finishes them off) kind of thing, with Obito himself almost dying.


They literally cannot lay a finger on obito...and nagato is so far out of their leagues it isnt even funny

Nagato and Obito also need but a single touch to kill either of their opponents...Nagato with soul steal and Obito with Kamui BFR

Have no idea how you can arrive at such a conclusion that this is anywhere near a difficult fight for the duo


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## Troyse22 (Mar 15, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Nagato solos...Obito isnt needed
> 
> No one in akatsuki aside from Itachi even merits his attention, and itachi BARELY warrants his attention, the rest straight up die in the crossfire.





Killer Bee certainly required Nagato's attention.

The same Killer Bee that got low diffed by Kisame 

Nagato low diffed Bee
Kisame low diffed Bee





WorldsStrongest said:


> They literally cannot lay a finger on obito



I'm sure Itachi and Kisame can figure out Kamui.

If Kakashi can, so can Itachi.



WorldsStrongest said:


> and nagato is so far out of their leagues it isnt even funny



 

not even worth addressing.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Nagato and Obito also need but a single touch to kill either of their opponents...Nagato with soul steal and Obito with Kamui BFR



Obito needs to materialize in order to send someone to box land as well as hold/touch them. He gets Totsuka'd if he tries that shit on Kisame, or he gets decapitated by Kisame if he tries it on Itachi, take your pick.

Obito can't just run in and lol Kamui these 2, Nagato needs to create an opening, which is a nearly impossible task on its own.

Lol'd at Nagato soul rip.

Shit is never a factor in any battle 

Oh...oh wait....it low diffed a fodder, my bad 



WorldsStrongest said:


> Have no idea how you can arrive at such a conclusion that this is anywhere near a difficult fight for the duo



Not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that this is anything short of extreme difficulty for Obito and Nagato.


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## The_Conqueror (Mar 15, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Obito needs to materialize in order to send someone to box land as well as hold/touch them. He gets Totsuka'd if he tries that shit on Kisame, or he gets decapitated by Kisame if he tries it on Itachi, take your pick.


Kisame cannot land hit on obito on even if he gets the opening
Kisame gets tagged really easily
Naruto gai kakashi in co-ordination did not land a single hit or create opening . 
Kisame is not anti obito
Samehada does nothing
Daikodon does nothing


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 15, 2017)

I'm afraid Kisame's presence isn't going to make it super difficult. The guy literally uses his chakra to make a water source, that's asking for an absorption.


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## Arthurthegrimreaper (Mar 15, 2017)

People always say itachi doesn't have the least stamina.but I think that's not the real case.everyone knows that sasuke has a good stamina.not very bad or not too good.
If you take the battle between itachi and sasuke,in the final moments sasuke really had nothing left still at that time itachi had enough energy to summon his susanoo so I think itachi has as much stamina as shippuden sasuke which is not very bad.and in this thread itachi stamina is slightly increased so I think itachi will have almost the same level of stamina as his teammates like maybe konan.
Anyway this is gonna be a very long battle and I say that team akatsuki wins with very very high dif just barely.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 15, 2017)

professor83 said:


> Kisame cannot land hit on obito on even if he gets the opening





So he's gonna sit there and watch Itachi get brought to boxland?

Don't think so.



professor83 said:


> Kisame gets tagged really easily
> Naruto gai kakashi in co-ordination did not land a single hit or create opening .



Itachi is above Kakashi in intelligence.

Kisame and Itachi together are above Kakashi, Naruto and Gai as a team.



professor83 said:


> Samehada does nothing







professor83 said:


> Daikodon does nothing


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 15, 2017)

Wow...

*Ahem*

Here we go



Troyse22 said:


> Killer Bee certainly required Nagato's attention.


Didnt realize Killer Bee was an akatsuki member 

Also didnt realize 1 shot of preta, and 1 asura combo was significant attention 

Cuz thats all nagato did to get Bee on the ropes 



Troyse22 said:


> The same Killer Bee *that pushed Kisame to a High Diff win despite being heavily restricted, as BM allows Killer Bee to 1 shot and he couldnt use it*


Ftfy

Lets stick to canon please

Inb4 "daikodan gg"

Cut that out...

BM Bee tanked his own point blank TBB and the juubis laser seconds prior to that...

Daikodan is a freaking mosquito by comparison 



Troyse22 said:


> *A nerfed *Nagato low diffed Bee *and KCM naruto simultaneously*


Ftfy



Troyse22 said:


> Kisame *High Diffed a Restricted Bee*


Ftfy



Troyse22 said:


> I'm sure Itachi and Kisame can figure out Kamui.
> 
> If Kakashi can, so can Itachi.


See...the difference is kakashi had kamui himself...so there was a tailor made weakness in obitos phasing kakashi can exploit due to being linked to the same time space...

Last i checked...Kisame is kinda shit at S/T ninjutsu....Same with Itachi

They may be able to deduce its mechanics, i grant you that...but they are in no way capable of using that information to any significant benefit

They can start with full knowledge and Kamui is still too much for them

They simply have nothing to deal with it and are too slow to compensate



Troyse22 said:


> not even worth addressing.


I agree

Theres no point in addressing the truth after all

Nagato>Pain>>>Itachi>Kisame





Troyse22 said:


> Obito needs to materialize in order to send someone to box land as well as hold/touch them.


He was confidant he could send minato, who had escaped his kamui MID FUCKING WARP seconds prior, to boxland.

Pretty sure he can send these chumps without much difficulty



Troyse22 said:


> He gets Totsuka'd if he tries that shit on Kisame, or he gets decapitated by Kisame if he tries it on Itachi, take your pick.


And whats nagato gonna do?

Jerk it while this all goes down? 

You claim Itachi and Kisame will be able to flawlessly have each others back when kamui literally takes AN INSTANT and youre done... all while nagato does nothing but watch apparently...thats fanfic homie...

And in addition to that...kisame is way too slow to do what youre proposing... he has no impressive movement, reaction, or striking speed feats...itachi *might* be able to bail kisame out if they stick to each other like glue with susanoos high striking speed...like 110% up each others ass the whole fight...which is impossible...cuz nagato ya know...exists? 1 BT or ST to separate the duo and make any bail out impossible is a simple task for nagato

Thats all that needs to happen...Obito ghosts up to one of his intended victims, either kisame or itachi...doesnt matter, and nagato BTs the other away from the action...G fucking G...they cant support each other anymore and one of em is effectively dead.



Troyse22 said:


> Obito can't just run in and lol Kamui these 2, Nagato needs to create an opening, which is a nearly impossible task on its own.


Obito can waltz in just fine on kisame and itachi individually

It only becomes a problem when they are glued to the hip and cover each other, which isnt OOC in the slightest...

And even that strategy is dealt with literally by something as simple as a flick of the wrist from nagato

Lol at "impossible task" for nagato to create an opening on these two peasants...

He doesnt even NEED obito here to destroy the whole of akatsuki...let alone these two jokers...yet you say he has trouble creating a simple opening for a teammate in a 2v2?

Lol ok



Troyse22 said:


> Lol'd at Nagato soul rip.


Theres nothing to "lol" at

Its also far from the only GG he has

The duo cant do shit against ningendo once nagato gets a hand on em...which is stupid easy

But go ahead

Prove me wrong

Dare ya




Troyse22 said:


> Shit is never a factor in any battle
> 
> Oh...oh wait....it low diffed a fodder, my bad


Pressured KCM naruto pretty good tho didnt it?

Didnt realize a man who lolblitzed kisame into the fucking concrete was "fodder"

Apparently something that pressures KCM naruto...who is >>>Kisame is now not a factor in a battle involving kisame...hmmm...odd...





Troyse22 said:


> Not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that this is anything short of extreme difficulty for Obito and Nagato.


Because i follow the manga

Nagato>=<Obito>Pain>>>Itachi>Kisame

Reactions: Like 1


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## The_Conqueror (Mar 15, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> So he's gonna sit there and watch Itachi get brought to boxland?
> 
> Don't think so.


Kisame goes to boxland first not itachi


Troyse22 said:


> Itachi is above Kakashi in intelligence.
> 
> Kisame and Itachi together are above Kakashi, Naruto and Gai as a team.


intelligence is of no use if you dont have specific ability to take on kamui
Kakashi had kamui

BM naruto kamahi gaibwith bee around would destroy itachi and kisame horribly.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 15, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Ftfy
> 
> Lets stick to canon please
> 
> ...





Killer bee didn't tank his Bijuudama, he was momentarily incapped and out of the fight. Bijuudama amped Daikodan at the least KO's him.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Ftfy






WorldsStrongest said:


> Ftfy







WorldsStrongest said:


> but they are in no way capable of using that information to any significant benefit
> 
> They can start with full knowledge and Kamui is still too much for them













WorldsStrongest said:


> I agree
> 
> Theres no point in addressing the truth after all
> 
> Obito>Nagato=Kisame>Itachi=6POP



ftfy





WorldsStrongest said:


> Theres nothing to "lol" at
> 
> Its also far from the only GG he has
> 
> ...




If he tries that shit on Itachi or Kisame he either gets totsuka'd or Samehada dines on brains tonight.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Nagato>=<Obito>Pain>>>Itachi>Kisame








professor83 said:


> Kisame goes to boxland first not itachi



I'd love to see Obito try that shit

Reactions: Dislike 3


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## The_Conqueror (Mar 15, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Killer bee didn't tank his Bijuudama, he was momentarily incapped and out of the fight. Bijuudama amped Daikodan at the least KO's him.


Bijjudama destroyed freaking mountains
What's daikodons best feat again?

Raikage has more chakra was inferior to minato
BOS naruto had more chakra tan kakashi so does that mean BOS=Kakashi?
Having more chakra≠Strength


Troyse22 said:


> If he tries that shit on Itachi or Kisame he either gets totsuka'd or Samehada dines on brains tonight.


Any speed fest of Kisame to suggest that?


> They can start with full knowledge and Kamui is still too much for them


Knowledge doesnot apply to a one on one scenario
Konan with knowledge nearly destroyed obito tho being several tiers below obito
as an individual
Itachi was a spy so he was a threat to obito but not enough of a threat to dispose him.
If obito wanted itachi dead itachi would be dead


Troyse22 said:


> I'd love to see Obito try that shit



Naruto was tagged twice or thrice (1, 2)  and could not even react to any shit so apparently kisame is reacting to that because ...........

After masters + naruto combination attack they themselves could not find a way to land hit or create any openings so until you have specific sets of ability to counter that number doesnot matter
If itachi does not cover kisame or himself with a Susanoo obito makes a distance and blast them or   cut with kamui shuriken. Kisames survival depends entirely on itachi.
Also without itachi other team are not doing a shit to nagato. Summons and all would be enough of a distraction its gonna be easy.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 15, 2017)

professor83 said:


> Bijjudama destroyed freaking mountains
> What's daikodons best feat again?



What's prime Hiruzen's best feat again?

For someone who thinks Prime Hiruzen's the shit despite being totally featless you got a big mouth.

If we don't have feats we look at hype and portrayal. It was supposed be viewed as =hirudora. And it was hyped by Kisame as able to absorb the chakra out of techniques and grow stronger as a result.

Do you think Kisame, who was hyped as a Jinchuuriki hunter wouldn't have a tech that counters the most overused Bijuu tech ever 

Fuck outta here man.



professor83 said:


> Raikage has more chakra was inferior to minato



No he wasn't 

Minato gets behind him and prepares to thrust a Kunai at his V1 Cloak, and people think that means GG. The stupidity is mind blowing. Minato's Kunai would've broken on his cloak, and A4 would've turned around and Liger Bombed him (oversimplification, but that flashback proves literally nothing except Minato>Ay in speed, not who's superior) if Minato was superior, he'd have killed him. The only reason Ay never killed Minato was because Minato has a get out of jail free card all the time.

A4>Minato.



professor83 said:


> BOS naruto had more chakra tan kakashi so does that mean BOS=Kakashi?



Yeah. 

BoS Naruto who's flipping on Kurama chakra would neg Kakashit 



professor83 said:


> Any speed fest of Kisame to suggest that?



He has reactionary feats supporting the fact he can do this, and he won't stray more than a few meters from Itachi. All Kage level shinobi have excellent speed, to suggest Kisame is an exception is laughable.



professor83 said:


> If obito wanted itachi dead itachi would be dead



Obito begs to differ 



professor83 said:


> Naruto was tagged twice or thrice (1, 2)  and could not even react to any shit so apparently kisame is reacting to that because ...........




because........................... 



The dude straight up reacted to a blindside attack.



countered a 3 way blitz



was clowning V1 Bee, who Sasuke couldn't even see escape behind a mountain






and reacted to the far superior V2 by blocking with Samehada.

Kisame has the reactionary feats supporting he can react to incredibly fast Shinobi, Nagato and Obito aren't exceptions just because you want them to be.



@professor83

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 15, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Killer bee didn't tank his Bijuudama, he was momentarily incapped and out of the fight. Bijuudama amped Daikodan at the least KO's him.


Killer Bee took his own TBB seconds after taking the juubis laser...

And he was ready for business seconds later in that very chapter

What does more damage troy?

Ill make this easy on you and have it as multiple choice...

A) Juubis Laser + a point blank TBB (lookin pretty hefty)
B) a suiton that was neg diffed by an air cannon WHILE UNDERWATER + a TBB




Hey look!

Memes that mean nothing to any conversation and refute nothing!

Hey look!

Memes that mean nothing to any conversation and refute nothing!
So like...do you not understand that Obito was talking out of his ass there?

Because if you even look at Itachis feats and glance at obitos and compare them...Itachi doesnt have a snowballs chance

But do tell exactly what itachi has to counter phasing




Troyse22 said:


> ftfy



>Troy says "fixed that for you"
>Responds with a fanfic power chain

"Obito>Nagato" That i can get behind, its debatable but nothing too far fetched

"Nagato=Kisame" is complete nonsense

"Kisame>Itachi" is wrong

"Itachi>Pain" is also wrong

Also

If you think this scan...


Is nagato admitting complete inferiority to kisame...i have some bad news for you

He is merely saying kisames reserves are good...and reserves are simply one small factor of a battle

If reserves were all one needed to be stronger than anyone around them...*fucking part 1  naruto woulda been hokage like day 2...and he woulda been more powerful than the likes of Kisame, Oro Hiruzen, Jman, Kakashi and Itachi from the jump*

See why this logic flat out doesnt work?

*Its the definition of reaching* to try to use this to portray "kisame>nagato confirmed"



Troyse22 said:


> If he tries that shit on Itachi or Kisame he either gets totsuka'd or Samehada dines on brains tonight.


Totsuka cannot hit him...hed just feint them like so and phase through it...then itachi has killed kisame via sealing...what now?

Samehada is equally useless for the same reasons...in addition to that its too slow to tag Obito cuz its wielder is too slow

And again...

I thoroughly enjoy how in your mind nagato doesnt participate in this fight and is playing backgammon in the corner or some shit while he lets itachi and kisame take all fucking week long to touch a hair on obitos kamui amped head and doesnt lift a finger at all.

Like...nagato doesnt even enter your equation...

And i pointed this massive gap in your logic out in my last post...

Hey look!

More memes that mean nothing to any conversation and refute nothing!




Troyse22 said:


> I'd love to see Obito try that shit


So like...do you not know what kamui phasing is or???


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## Parallaxis (Mar 15, 2017)

t


Troyse22 said:


> Killer bee didn't tank his Bijuudama, he was momentarily incapped and out of the fight. Bijuudama amped Daikodan at the least KO's him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thought you were the guy who said "inb4 itachi wankers jerk off to obitos statement to kisame"?


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 15, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> What's prime Hiruzen's best feat again?
> 
> For someone who thinks Prime Hiruzen's the shit despite being totally featless you got a big mouth.
> 
> ...


Im 90% sure hes joking half the time

As if his edits werent a firm indicator of that...



Troyse22 said:


> No he wasn't
> 
> Minato gets behind him and prepares to thrust a Kunai at his V1 Cloak, and people think that means GG. The stupidity is mind blowing. Minato's Kunai would've broken on his cloak, and A4 would've turned around and Liger Bombed him (oversimplification, but that flashback proves literally nothing except Minato>Ay in speed, not who's superior) if Minato was superior, he'd have killed him. The only reason Ay never killed Minato was because Minato has a get out of jail free card all the time.
> 
> A4>Minato.


Gotta love when people go against manga canon and feats



Troyse22 said:


> Yeah.
> 
> BoS Naruto who's flipping on Kurama chakra would neg Kakashit


Implying naruto needs kurama to have more chakra than kakashi

When kakashi himself stated narutos reserves exceed his by a factor of 4 at least even without kurama

Yet BoS narutos still a scrub to kakashi even with quadruple his senseis chakra...

Your logic of "greater reserves=stronger shinobi" still doesnt work no matter how we slice it



Troyse22 said:


> He has reactionary feats supporting the fact he can do this, and he won't stray more than a few meters from Itachi. All Kage level shinobi have excellent speed, to suggest Kisame is an exception is laughable.


Its laughable to suggest the massive brute who lugs around a tree trunk osf a weapon and has no speed feats to speak of at all is on the slow side?

Kay fam



Troyse22 said:


> Obito begs to differ


Obito is a moron who wa stalking out of his ass

A statement that is contradicted isnt a valid statement anymore...

As soon as obito got combat feats he invalidated the statement he made that itachi could beat him...

All obito needs to do is kamui camp and he outlasts Itachi



Troyse22 said:


> because...........................


He dodged the equivalent of a shuriken here troy...

raiton funneling doesnt increase a projectiles speed...it increases its penetrative power

Kisame may as well have dodged shuriken here...same level of a feat



Troyse22 said:


> The dude straight up reacted to a blindside attack.


This isnt even remotely impressive

Guess Part 1 sasuke is a top tier speedster now considering he reacted to a blindside from dozens of narutos...

*Spoiler*: __ 








As opposed to kisame who only reacted to 3...

It also doesnt exactly help your point that one of kisames assailants were complete fodder by comparison...



Troyse22 said:


> was clowning V1 Bee, who Sasuke couldn't even see escape behind a mountain


Sasuke dodged V1 Bee just fine...

He was also injured and nerfed during that battle...



Troyse22 said:


> and reacted to the far superior V2 by blocking with Samehada.
> 
> Kisame has the reactionary feats supporting he can react to incredibly fast Shinobi, Nagato and Obito aren't exceptions just because you want them to be.


He didnt react to V2 and ive pointed this out to you before...

Kisame had samehada in front of him before Bee even started to mve

Hiding behind samehada before Bee even moved to attack=/=reacted to Bee

srry fam...not a reaction feat

Reactions: Like 2


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## Troyse22 (Mar 15, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Killer Bee took his own TBB seconds after taking the juubis laser...
> 
> And he was ready for business seconds later in that very chapter
> 
> What does more damage troy?



Being incapped for seconds is more than enough time for Kisame to finish the battle.



WorldsStrongest said:


> A) Juubis Laser + a point blank TBB (lookin pretty hefty)
> B) a suiton that was neg diffed by an air cannon WHILE UNDERWATER + a TBB



B.



WorldsStrongest said:


> So like...do you not understand that Obito was talking out of his ass there?
> 
> Because if you even look at Itachis feats and glance at obitos and compare them...Itachi doesnt have a snowballs chance
> 
> But do tell exactly what itachi has to counter phasing



Oh 

Oh 

The hypocrisy is unrivaled.

You're one of the biggest believers in Jiraiyas, Kisame's and Itachi's P1 statements i've seen. Kisame's combat feats put him above Jiraiya, but i've seen you cling to the statement for dear life

What a fucking joke.

Itachi can beat Obito per his own admission, Obito's only impressive feats come from him when he has the Rinnegan.



WorldsStrongest said:


> "Nagato=Kisame" is complete nonsense



Proved it on multiple occasions, people just don't like that feats and hype put Kisame on par with one of their beloved Dojutsu users 



WorldsStrongest said:


> Kisame>Itachi" is wrong



Go ahead, make the thread so I can clown you in it.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Also
> 
> If you think this scan...
> 
> ...




Not denying that, but it's just a clear example that Kisame is not behind Nagato like everyone in the NBD thinks.



WorldsStrongest said:


> f reserves were all one needed to be stronger than anyone around them...*fucking part 1 naruto woulda been hokage like day 2...and he woulda been more powerful than the likes of Kisame, Oro Hiruzen, Jman, Kakashi and Itachi from the jump*
> 
> See why this logic flat out doesnt work?
> 
> *Its the definition of reaching* to try to use this to portray "kisame>nagato confirmed"




I don't think Kisame>Nagato, I think Kisame=Nagato 

Also, Naruto is the main character, plot gives him huge chakra reserves just like it gives Sakura byakugo

Just like it gives Madara susanoo without eyes 



WorldsStrongest said:


> I thoroughly enjoy how in your mind nagato doesnt participate in this fight and is playing backgammon in the corner or some shit while he lets itachi and kisame take all fucking week long to touch a hair on obitos kamui amped head and doesnt lift a finger at all.




Implying Nagato can do anything about a Totsuka blitz, the same thing that was his downfall in canon 



WorldsStrongest said:


> Gotta love when people go against manga canon and feats




Are you implying that Minato was going to pierce RCM2 despite Sasuke's Raiton enhanced sword not being able to, despite Sasuke's Chidori not being able to?

Funny guy 



WorldsStrongest said:


> Your logic of "greater reserves=stronger shinobi" still falls on its face no matter how u twist it



I don't think that, you're trynna put words in my mouth.

I'm just saying most shinobi with monstrous chakra reserves are more often than not OP (Killer Bee, Kisame, Nagato, presumably Orochimaru) etc. 



WorldsStrongest said:


> Its laughable to suggest the massive brute who lugs around a tree trunk osf a weapon and has no speed feats to speak of at all is on the slow side?
> 
> Kay fam




Yes it is, Kisame's Bijuu like power



is more than enough to accommodate the weight of Samehada, we've seen him swing it around like it's nothing. He was baring down on Asuma with the very tip of Samehada with 1 arm, and Jounin's at the time were supposed be viewed as just a step under Kage.

And this is Kisame before all of his big techs were made evident.



WorldsStrongest said:


> He dodged the equivalent of a shuriken here troy...
> 
> raiton funneling doesnt increase a projectiles speed...it increases its penetrative power
> 
> Kisame may as well have dodged shuriken here...same level of a feat




Implying that dodging an attack he had no idea was coming isn't impressive 

your downplaying is disgusting.



WorldsStrongest said:


> This isnt even remotely impressive
> 
> Guess Part 1 sasuke is a top tier speedster now considering he reacted to a blindside from dozens of narutos...
> 
> ...



Reacting to a 3 way blitz is impressive, stop the downplay.

Naruto also didn't send all of his clones in at once.

This scene was to show the gap between Naruto and Sasuke finally closed, or was damn near closing (the Chidori vs Rasengan further confirms this) in fact, it puts Naruto a little above him.

Off topic 



WorldsStrongest said:


> Sasuke dodged V1 Bee just fine...
> 
> He was also injured and nerfed during that battle...




Oh did he? 





WorldsStrongest said:


> He didnt react to V2 and ive pointed this out to you before...
> 
> Kisame had samehada in front of him before Bee even started to mve
> 
> ...




You've pointed it out, but its been wrong no matter how many times you say it



In this scan, look at the middle left scan, he has Samehada next to him, with the entirety of the blade off to his side.

In the next panel, you see it in front of him with Kisame's arm position switched. Kisame reacted to V2 no matter how much you don't like it.

Now stop saying this, it grows tiring repeating that argument to the same person 50 times.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 15, 2017)

Just gonna edit my post real quick and put this at the top so you dont waste your time

Im dropping this

Ive been down this rabbit hole before and i have seen you dont budge on a damn thing

This is my last post addressing u



Troyse22 said:


> eing incapped for seconds is more than enough time for Kisame to finish the battle.


Except Kisame has no way to incap Bee



Troyse22 said:


> B.


Then im not even gonna waste my time with you anymore if you honestly believe this shit



Troyse22 said:


> Oh
> 
> Oh
> 
> ...


I would *LOVE* to see you prove this

We had a thread not that long ago addressing the Part 1 statement...and i stated i didnt support it

Ill tell you exactly what i said...*i said theres no way Jman beats em both at the same time

But he beats em both individually*

*I literally had the OP add in a unique option in the poll JUST FOR ME*

So you are legit talking out of your ass here

Fuck outta here with that "hypocrisy" nonsense

I dont beleive a great deal of Jmans hype honestly...dont know where you got that idea

For one thing, I *actively* say the statement made about him being able to beat pain with knowledge is horseshit





Troyse22 said:


> What a fucking joke.
> 
> Itachi can beat Obito per his own admission, Obito's only impressive feats come from him when he has the Rinnegan.


No whats funny is you just throwing a nonsense statement in my face that is contradicted by every feat from both characters this statement is about

And you cannot answer a simple question without referencing said statement

Heres the question

"What can itachi do to Obitos phasing"



Troyse22 said:


> Proved it on multiple occasions, people just don't like that feats and hype put Kisame on par with one of their beloved Dojutsu users


We have different definitions when it comes to the word "proved" i guess



Troyse22 said:


> Go ahead, make the thread so I can clown you in it.


Hilarity

Ive seen you "clown" people in debates regarding kisame before troy and ive got no patience for it

You just say the same things over and over again despite them being addressed

I dont have the patience to reword my opinion 4 times and call it a "debate"


Troyse22 said:


> Not denying that, but it's just a clear example that Kisame is not behind Nagato like everyone in the NBD thinks.


No...this is a clear example of kisame having good reserves...thats it

Stop taking a mile where the manga gives you an inch



Troyse22 said:


> I don't think Kisame>Nagato, I think Kisame=Nagato
> 
> Also, Naruto is the main character, plot gives him huge chakra reserves just like it gives Sakura byakugo
> 
> Just like it gives Madara susanoo without eyes



Kisame is not=nagato, he is unbelievably below him so either way my point stands
Naruto being the MC means nothing to my point troy, MC or not, even in part 1 he has way better reserves than kakashi, itachi, or hiruzen and yet is still tiers below them...just like kisame is compared to nagato...thats my point...reserves are far from the end all and be all of power placement
Why are you bringing up sakura right now? Byakugo and natural reserves are not the same thing...
And the madara thing...the fck does this have to do with what we are talking about



Troyse22 said:


> Implying Nagato can do anything about a Totsuka blitz, the same thing that was his downfall in canon* due to him being crippled, nerfed, and having his sensory ability deactivated and kabuto not having a clue what he was doing while controlling him*


Ftfy




Troyse22 said:


> Are you implying that Minato was going to pierce RCM2 despite Sasuke's Raiton enhanced sword not being able to, despite Sasuke's Chidori not being able to?
> 
> Funny guy


Sasukes Chidori did pierce it...

And Minato has Odama level rasengans which are>>>Chidori...

Ergo...



Troyse22 said:


> I don't think that, you're trynna put words in my mouth.
> 
> I'm just saying most shinobi with monstrous chakra reserves are more often than not OP (Killer Bee, Kisame, Nagato, presumably Orochimaru) etc.


Kisame is far from OP

And kisame is far from nagatos general level

My point was, you are using kisames reserves as a means to portray him at, or near nagatos level, which isnt how it works.



Troyse22 said:


> Yes it is, Kisame's Bijuu like power


Biju like power that has given him no impressive speed feats

My point still stands



Troyse22 said:


> Implying that dodging an attack he had no idea was coming isn't impressive
> 
> your downplaying is disgusting.


This a joke?

Cuz he was staring at Bee when he threw that pencil troy...

How is me suggesting that kisame dodging a simple projectile not being that impressive downplay?





Troyse22 said:


> Reacting to a 3 way blitz is impressive, stop the downplay.


It wasnt a 3 way blitz

And it wasnt impressive

The attacks came one at a time, in succession, not simultaneously

He had already blocked Bees pals attack before Bee even rushed him, and kisame wasnt even fast enough to avoid getting stabbed by the sword...

So really..kisame reacted to what...a 1.5 way blitz?



Troyse22 said:


> Naruto also didn't send all of his clones in at once.


Which was my entire point to begin with



Troyse22 said:


> Oh did he?


After he dropped his guard due to having no knowledge on the partner method as it hadnt even been introdced in the manga until that exact second AFTER sasuke got tagged...

Context troy...context...



Troyse22 said:


> You've pointed it out, but its been wrong no matter how many times you say it


This should be good...



Troyse22 said:


> In this scan, look at the middle left scan, he has Samehada next to him, with the entirety of the blade off to his side.
> 
> In the next panel, you see it in front of him with Kisame's arm position switched. Kisame reacted to V2 no matter how much you don't like it.


I really dont care what you say troy, or how you try to twist the logic of a scene....because i have my eyes

And im capable of looking at the bottom right panel...which clearly shows Kisame hiding behind Samehada before Bee even takes a step



> Now stop saying this, it grows tiring repeating that argument to the same person 50 times.


You
And
Me
Both


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## Troyse22 (Mar 16, 2017)

We're done here if you're not going to acknowledge that Kisame REACTED to V2 Bee, manga facts>your bullshit baseless opinion.


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 16, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> We're done here if you're not going to acknowledge that Kisame REACTED to V2 Bee, manga facts>your bullshit baseless opinion.


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## Muah (Mar 16, 2017)

Obito solos. Well maybe not. With teamwork they might be able to pull of a win but they dont have team work.


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## Mar55 (Mar 16, 2017)

Lel, and here I though Itachi wank was too much. Never even knew Kisame wank was a possibility.


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## Arthurthegrimreaper (Mar 17, 2017)

You might be right that they don't have teamwork but still the duo's will work together so to make like three teams except konan and orochimaru who I don't think will get along very well.
Still I don't understand how the leaders will win.I already stated that the only way the leaders win is when deidara accidentally fires his C4


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## Serene Grace (Mar 17, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Obito begs to differ





Troyse22 said:


>





Troyse22 said:


> Obito Uchiha, who noted that, had he (Obito) not kept his abilities and identity a secret, he would have lost to Itachi in a battle.
> 
> However,* this is clearly relatively baseless hype, as Obito is clearly shown to be the superior Shinobi based on Obito's abilities, feats and abilities.*


May I ask you what changed your mind? Lulz, can't be contradicting yourself man XD

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mar55 (Mar 17, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> May I ask you what changed your mind? Lulz, can't be contradicting yourself man.


I think the chance to wank Itachi and Kisame was just too much to pass up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Arthurthegrimreaper (Mar 18, 2017)

Team akatsuki wins with high dif


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