# Fate/Apocrypha vs Fate/Zero and Stay/Night



## Brightsteel (Mar 5, 2015)

Just something I had in mind. Basically the Servants of both the Red and Black factions team up with each other to take on the respective Servants of Zero and Stay/Night. Fighters are *in character * and unless specified, location is the Room of Spirit and Time. Match ups go as such:

*Match 1: Lancers*

Karna and Vlad vs Cu Chulainn and Diarmuid (Takes place in Vlad's domain where he has the boost from Demonic Defender of State and can utilize his Noble Phantasm. Legend of Dracula is restricted).

*Match 2: Sabers*

Siegfried and Mordred vs Stay/Night and Zero versions of Artuia (meaning one has the stats when Rin was her master, and the other has the stats when Kiritsugu is her master).

*Mach 3: Archers*

Atlanta and Chiron vs Gilgamesh and EMIYA. 

*Match 4*

Achilles and Astolfo vs Medusa and Iskandar (Fighters automatically start out in Iskandar's Ionian Hetairoi, if that makes any difference).

*Match 5: Casters*

Solomon and Shakespeare vs Medea and Gilles de Rais

*Match 6: Assassins*

Jack the Ripper and Semiramis vs Hassan and Hassan and Sasaki (For the inclusion of all Assassins, even the Faker. Takes place at Sasaki's gate. Semiramis has a similar boost to as when she's in the Hanging Garden of Babylon.)

*Match 7: Berserkers*

Frankenmoe and Spartacus vs Lancelot and Herakles


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## Sablés (Mar 5, 2015)

Apocrypha stomps
Zero/SN win Apocrypha. Seig's dragon affinity fucks Arturia over
Gil stomps
Zero/SN win
Zero/SN win
Probably Zero/SN because Kojiro
Zero/SN stomp


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Mar 5, 2015)

Apocrypha servants are far and away above most of the Zero/SN cast with far more broken abilities

They should comfortably take most of the scenarios they're in with noteable exceptions

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## manidk (Mar 5, 2015)

Brightsteel said:


> *Match 1: Lancers*
> 
> Karna and Vlad vs Cu Chulainn and Diarmuid (Takes place in Vlad's domain where he has the boost from Demonic Defender of State and can utilize his Noble Phantasm. Legend of Dracula is restricted).



This is probably the most unbalanced match here, in Apocrypha's favor.



> *Match 2: Sabers*
> 
> Siegfried and Mordred vs Stay/Night and Zero versions of Artuia (meaning one has the stats when Rin was her master, and the other has the stats when Kiritsugu is her master).



Siegfried could probably solo, but throwing in Mordred, who hates the ever-loving shit out of Arturia doesn't help at all.


> *Mach 3: Archers*
> 
> Atlanta and Chiron vs Gilgamesh and EMIYA.



Actually, this is probably the most unbalanced, simply because Gil is included.



> *Match 4*
> 
> Achilles and Astolfo vs Medusa and Iskandar (Fighters automatically start out in Iskandar's Ionian Hetairoi, if that makes any difference).



Iskandar's C-Rank in Divinity means he can actually damage Achilles, and starting in IH is definitely a plus... But I'm not sure what to call on this one.  I don't know a whole lot about Astolfo, but Achilles is pretty damn strong by himself, also super speed.



> *Match 5: Casters*
> 
> Solomon and Shakespeare vs Medea and Gilles de Rais



I don't remember anything super notable from Solomon or Shakespeare that didn't take a long amount of time to set up, so I'll give this to SN/Zero team.  Medea is also pretty strong when sword spam isn't involved.



> *Match 6: Assassins*
> 
> Jack the Ripper and Semiramis vs Hassan and Hassan and Sasaki (For the inclusion of all Assassins, even the Faker. Takes place at Sasaki's gate. Semiramis has a similar boost to as when she's in the Hanging Garden of Babylon.)



Doesn't Semi have EX-Ranked beamspam?  



> *Match 7: Berserkers*
> 
> Frankenmoe and Spartacus vs Lancelot and Herakles



I want to say SN/Zero team wins because I'm a Lancelot fan, but I really don't know.  Spartacus is pretty broken.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Mar 5, 2015)

There's also the bit where Achilles can deploy Diatrechon Aster Logche's Duel Field and murder the shit out of everyone else through raw skill/facepunching


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## Brightsteel (Mar 5, 2015)

> I don't remember anything super notable from Solomon or Shakespeare that didn't take a long amount of time to set up, so I'll give this to SN/Zero team. Medea is also pretty strong when sword spam isn't involved.



Pretty sure Shakespeare could First Folio her since she doesn't outrank him in everything....if he doesn't get instantly murked at least.


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## BreakFlame (Mar 5, 2015)

Lol at that Archer battle. Gilgamesh (who's basically invincible) supported by a guy who can basically double his GoB spam (and is the only one who can counter it effectively).

Though if half the stuff in the Karna versus Saber thread is true then the Lancer battle is just as uneven in Apocraphya's favor.

The Saber battle should be Apocraphya's since Seigfried has the dragon slayer thing (didn't Word of god say he would murk her or something) and neither of those Saber's has Avalon.

I know jack about the others on the Apocraphya side, though I'd definitely be surprised if there was a stronger berserker than Heracles.


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## manidk (Mar 5, 2015)

Brightsteel said:


> Pretty sure Shakespeare could First Folio her since she doesn't outrank him in everything....if he doesn't get instantly murked at least.



How exactly does First Folio work?  I never really got it.

NasuSpeak is always way too overcomplicated when it comes to the weird conceptual stuff.


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## Brightsteel (Mar 5, 2015)

> How exactly does First Folio work? I never really got it.
> 
> NasuSpeak is always way too overcomplicated when it comes to the weird conceptual stuff.



I always assumed that it was like Shakespeare writing a story. The events before him, were the story and he could either edit the story or the events before him, or cross out and delete certain sections of the story, which would get rid of the events before.


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## manidk (Mar 5, 2015)

Brightsteel said:


> I always assumed that it was like Shakespeare writing a story. The events before him, were the story and he could either edit the story or the events before him, or cross out and delete certain sections of the story, which would get rid of the events before.



That's probably a good explanation unless Zen or Willy pop up and completely contradict it.

I'd still lean towards Medea though, she's pretty quick with the beamspam and high-level offensive shit.


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## manidk (Mar 5, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> There's also the bit where Achilles can deploy Diatrechon Aster Logche's Duel Field and murder the shit out of everyone else through raw skill/facepunching



I never expected Achilles to end up being so great.

What a fool I was.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Mar 5, 2015)

The first thing you did wrong was doubt Achilles


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## Brightsteel (Mar 5, 2015)

> I'd still lean towards Medea though, she's pretty quick with the beamspam and high-level offensive shit.



High Speed Divine Words really are a bitch like that.....

I'd still reckon he could take down Gilles while Solomon is dispatched by Medea.


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## BreakFlame (Mar 5, 2015)

Would Achilles Duel Field cancel out Ionian Hetiroi? Or at least keep them from interfering?


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## Sablés (Mar 5, 2015)

manidk said:


> I want to say SN/Zero team wins because I'm a Lancelot fan, but I really don't know.  Spartacus is pretty broken.



Spartacus has nothing on Herakles

Reactions: Agree 1


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## manidk (Mar 6, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Spartacus has nothing on Herakles



They're both pretty insanely hard to put down.

If Spartacus lasts, his final attack could very well put down Herc.

Either way, I'm not comfortable calling the match for either side.


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## manidk (Mar 6, 2015)

BreakFlame said:


> Would Achilles Duel Field cancel out Ionian Hetiroi? Or at least keep them from interfering?





I don't think so, since IH's power comes from Rider himself, and not an outside source.  Since it is meant to basically display his qualities as a King and whatnot.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Mar 6, 2015)

IH not being able to interfere sounds more likely than outright nullification of the RM by achilles


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## BreakFlame (Mar 6, 2015)

Makes sense. So supposing he pulls it off, is there any chance for the FSN/Zero Riders to win in a one-on-one? As I understand it, the Duel Field weakens Achilles, but his profile made him out to be extremely skilled in normal combat.

I have a question about the Berserker fight. I took a look at their pages on the wiki and neither had an A-rank NP. Spartacus had A-rank strength, though. What I'm curious about is how that interacts with God-Hand. Does Spartacus need to kill him twelve times in a slightly different manner each time (cut his head off, pierce his heart, etc) or would doing it once make his strength useless? God Hands adaptive ability never really made much sense to me.


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## zenieth (Mar 6, 2015)

Achilles is literally the strongest normal servant in Apocrypha

Final Volume pretty much all but confirmed Him > Karna

Riders aint doing nothing

They going die.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Karna333 (Jul 2, 2016)

Well, I know that is too late to comment this, but I want to explain my opinion. 
*Match 1 (Lancers)*: I think with Karna could be enough to defeat Diarmuid and Cú Chulainn, I don't say that they are weaks but Karna is Karna. In addition, the power of Vlad III is very destructive with his Kaziklu bey.
*Match 2 (Saber)*: I think apocrypha's Sabers are pretty strong. They have an own style to fight. Mordred is as a beast and Siegfried use a lot of his armor of fafnir advantage. For this reason,  they could win against the two Arturias.
*Match 3 (archer)*: Gilgamesh is the best. I need to say Chiron is also powerful because his abilities are so good as to receive the respect of Gilgamesh. In addition, Atalanta have the advantage of his speed. Archers zero/Stay night win for Gil.
*Match 4 (Rider)*: Achilles can win this match. Iskander has C rank divinity but I don't think Iskander can hit achilles. Achilles can defeat him with his abilities. That's why Iskander is not good to fight hand to hand against Achilles. In addition, Achilles have five NP that can do a lot of damage and the main point, the Iskander's strongest Noble phantasm, Ionial hetaroil, haven't got any hero with more divinity than Achilles. Other thing, against Medusa could be a good fight but without difficulties to Achilles or Astolfo. That's why Medusa's divinity is E rank. In conclusion, Achilles is too strong and Apocrypha's Riders have a lot of NP.
*Match 5 (Caster)*: Medea win. That's why Solomon's NP would fight against Gille's NP, but Medea can win the fight because she can absorb a lot of power and then she can kill Shakespeare. Surely, Shakespeare is the weakest servant.
*Match 6 (Assasin)*: Semiramis wins differences, it is not only for his NP, Hangings garden of Babylon, is due to his assasin's and caster's abilities. In addition, Jack is very strong and she could kill a lot of versions of Hassan.
*Match 7 (Berserker)*: Heracles and Lancelot stomps. Spartacus could defeat Heracles but I don't think that can be possible because Heracles has spent all the time of his life doing incredible things. Spartacus is as a beast but Heracles is more powerful and skillful. Frankenstein can't do anything to defeat other Berserkers


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## TheBlackDragonz (Jul 2, 2016)

[QUOTE="Brightsteel"

*Match 1: Lancers*

Karna and Vlad vs Cu Chulainn and Diarmuid (Takes place in Vlad's domain where he has the boost from Demonic Defender of State and can utilize his Noble Phantasm. Legend of Dracula is restricted).
[/quote]

Apocrypha.
*



			Match 2: Sabers
		
Click to expand...

*


> Siegfried and Mordred vs Stay/Night and Zero versions of Artuia (meaning one has the stats when Rin was her master, and the other has the stats when Kiritsugu is her master).



As has been mentioned, Anti-Dragon Siegfried and Mordred's daddy(?) issues.


> *Mach 3: Archers*
> 
> Atlanta and Chiron vs Gilgamesh and EMIYA.


Gilgamesh beats up Team Apo and then kills Emiya too.


> *Match 4*
> 
> Achilles and Astolfo vs Medusa and Iskandar (Fighters automatically start out in Iskandar's Ionian Hetairoi, if that makes any difference).


 Pretty close, I don't think Astolfo's hunting horn can disperse the soldiers, but the Hippogriff is anti-army so that might help. Iskandar can hurt Achilles, but with Astolfo as support I'd say Achilles can pull through.


> *Match 5: Casters*
> 
> Solomon and Shakespeare vs Medea and Gilles de Rais


 *Solomon*.


> *Match 6: Assassins*
> 
> Jack the Ripper and Semiramis vs Hassan and Hassan and Sasaki (For the inclusion of all Assassins, even the Faker. Takes place at Sasaki's gate. Semiramis has a similar boost to as when she's in the Hanging Garden of Babylon.)


 Sasaki can Gaeshi Semiraimis and also the Hassans can swarm her. Also Zabiyana. Even if the Hassans all perish, iirc Jack can't hurt Sasaki that easily.


> *Match 7: Berserkers*
> 
> Frankenmoe and Spartacus vs Lancelot and Herakles


Herakles. Frankenmoe gets smashed into organic fragments and then they double-team Spartacus.


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## Qinglong (Jul 2, 2016)

Lancers - Even in worst case scenario of GB going off Apo team takes one death and still kills the competition
Sabers - Sieg can beat Artoria not only based on his skill but per WoG of being a horrible matchup for her
Archers - lolmongrels
Riders - lolfitemeIRL
Casters - Medea can freeze them in place and pick them off at her leisure, not even getting into cthulu vs Adam debate
Assassins - If Semi goes for Basmu they're screwed, hard to figure otherwise since it would depend on what Kojiro does first
Cursed Arm's range is pretty bad
Berserkers - Apo team is kinda screwed here since Fran has to Blasted Tree to be of any use in this fight and that's not going to get them to deplete Godhand


EDIT: Assuming she gets the full boost of the gardens

if not She just has Sikeru Usum's normal usage to take out the hassans and kojiro


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2016)

Lancelot soloes


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## The World (Jul 2, 2016)

Lancelot kills everyone

even Heracles


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jul 2, 2016)

If spartacus gets to the level he got in Apo with his NP then he might be able to kill lancelot in a MAD moment

Heracles will just regenerate from it and laugh it off


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2016)

>implying UNRIVALED can be outskilled


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## BehemothV2 (Jul 2, 2016)

Lancelot grabs the explosion and uses it as a weapon

Reactions: Agree 2


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