# Juudara vs Fused Momoshiki



## Steven (Jun 18, 2021)

Titel


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

Momoshiki shits on him.

Madara's wankers argument is self-deluded in hoping that Momoshiki's Rinnegans are blind.

Reactions: Like 7 | Disagree 1


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

Limbo Clone oneshots.

@Anyone who wants to reply to me "Momoshiki can sense Limbo Clones": You're going straight to my ignore list if you dare ping me for that nonsense  

Momoshitti couldn't perceive a simple Rasengan created by a Genin, he's not pereceiving Rinnegan clones created by a God that exist in a separate realm altogether

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 2 | Lewd 1


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> @Anyone who wants to reply to me "Momoshiki can sense Limbo Clones": You're going straight to my ignore list if you dare ping me for that nonsense


why are you tagging the poor guy? 
he hasn't been here since 2007

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

New Folder said:


> why are you tagging the poor guy?
> he hasn't been here since 2007


Ah, one of those authentic boomers who would still spend all their day talking about Jiraiya, or Hiruzen, or other boomer 2007 characters in 2021. An interesting animal in its natural habitat. 

Madara speed-blitzes Minato by the way.


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> Ah, one of those authentic boomers who would still spend all their day talking about Jiraiya, or Hiruzen, or other boomer 2007 characters in 2021. An interesting animal in its natural habitat.
> 
> Madara speed-blitzes Minato by the way.


Madara is a fodder son, you need to get over it.   

even 12 years old is stronger than him at this point.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## blk (Jun 18, 2021)

Momoshiki adds another pill to his collection.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

New Folder said:


> Madara is a fodder son, you need to get over it.
> 
> even 12 years old is stronger than him at this point.


Someone please tell me that there's no limit to how many people you can ignore


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> Someone please tell me that there's no limit to how many people you can ignore


it's ok, the truth hurts... 

I was hurt as well when Zetsu curbfodderstomped JJ Madara with no difficulty whatsoever...


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## Sparks (Jun 18, 2021)

Madara gets turned into a fruit.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hellblade (Jun 18, 2021)

Momoshiki cant kill/seal him. Madara win high diff.

Reactions: Disagree 2 | Optimistic 2


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## ARGUS (Jun 18, 2021)

CST is something momoshiki cannot counter 
Madara wins

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> CST is something momoshiki cannot counter
> Madara wins


Where did Madara use CST exactly? 

for a guy who was around in the manga for over 100+ chapters, you would think his wankers do not need to use headcanon/fanfiction.
But apparently not...


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

New Folder said:


> Where did Madara use CST exactly?
> 
> for a guy who was around in the manga for over 100+ chapters, you would think his wankers do not need to use headcanon/fanfiction.
> But apparently not...


You're so annoying  

You do know Pain did this thanks to *MADARA'S EYES:


A random brat can do it but not the original owner who awakened them, you are so full of garbage  *


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## Hellblade (Jun 18, 2021)

New Folder said:


> Where did Madara use CST exactly?
> 
> for a guy who was around in the manga for over 100+ chapters, you would think his wankers do not need to use headcanon/fanfiction.
> But apparently not...


Madara taught Obito how to use the rinnegan. Obito taught Nagato how to use the rinnegan.
1+1=?
Madara used flight in the anime.


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> You're so annoying
> 
> You do know Pain did this thanks to *MADARA'S EYES:
> 
> ...



So? Having Madara's eyes is one thing, and having the same fighting style is another thing... 

Madara is NOT one of those charactes who only got 2 chapters to showcase their power.
he got several battles that lasted long enough. And yet, he never used said attack. So, there is no reason for us
to assume he would use it here just to satisfy his wankers' fantasies. 



Hellblade said:


> Madara taught Obito how to use the rinnegan. Obito taught Nagato how to use the rinnegan.
> 1+1=?
> Madara used flight in the anime.


same reply as above.

Not to mention, in worst-case scenario, Momoshiki will counter it with a CST of his own anyway.


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

New Folder said:


> So? Having Madara's eyes is one thing, and having the same fighting style is another thing...


This might be one of the dumbest argument you've ever made.

Using the Rinnegan has nothing to do with fighting style  It's a biological power that anyone with it can use, it's not a fighting style that you learn  Kid Nagato even did a Shinra Tensei out of desperation without any military training at all.


New Folder said:


> Madara is NOT one of those charactes who only got 2 chapters to showcase their power.
> he got several battles that lasted long enough. And yet, he never used said attack.


As always you ignore the story.

He couldn't use large-scale attacks because Obito was also there, he couldn't risk damaging the simp because he had one of his Rinnegan. Why do you think Madara never nuked the Allied shinobi forces, when they mustered in front of Ten Tails? Because Obito would have also died and he couldn't sacrifice his Rinnegan.

And when Madara didn't need Obito anymore as he got his other Rinnegan back, he also didn't need to use Shinra Tensei. He was able to corner Team 7 just with a dozens few Chibaku Tensei and Limbo clones. He had no need for Shinra Tensei.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## dergeist (Jun 18, 2021)

EMS Madara tears him several new arseholes, anything above that is overkill.


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> Using the Rinnegan has nothing to do with fighting style


bitch, no one is talking about using the Rinnegan in of itself. 

Example: 
1- a shit ton of characters have Shadow clones as one of their jutsu. 
How many of them used a 1000 clone like Naruto? 

Example2:
We have see Nagato uses all 6 paths abilities + outer paths.
Can you show us any other character who USED all 6 paths as Nagato/Pain did?

and the list goes on.
Kishi does this in order to save some uniqueness for the characters. Since most characters are copy & paste of each other.
he tries to put those small differences to save said characters from being 100% redundant. 




Fused said:


> He couldn't use large-scale attacks because Obito was also there, he couldn't risk damaging the simp because he had one of his Rinnegan. Why do you think Madara never nuked the Allied shinobi forces, when they mustered in front of Ten Tails? Because Obito would have also died and he couldn't sacrifice his Rinnegan.


what a trash argument. 
Obito can use Kamui anytime he wants, and no jutsu Madara could pull out of his ass will even land on Obito. 



Fused said:


> he also didn't need to use Shinra Tensei.


that would have been useful Vs 8th Gates Gai tho.


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## WhoFedAhri? (Jun 18, 2021)

dergeist said:


> EMS Madara tears him several new arseholes, anything above that is overkill.


Momo was able to contest against RSM Naruto and even overpower using that avatar of his. How does EMS madara win?


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

New Folder said:


> bitch, no one is talking about using the Rinnegan in of itself.
> 
> Example:
> 1- a shit ton of characters have Shadow clones as one of their jutsu.
> ...


You're going straight into my ignore list, I'm tired of indulging your garbage.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## WhoFedAhri? (Jun 18, 2021)

I dunno really. Momo was underwhming. But still i pick him


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## Sparks (Jun 18, 2021)

PS > CT > CST (either Rikudou amped or non Rikudou amped versions)

Adult Naruto's KA and Sasuke's PS are stronger than their respective avatars as teens by way of having the other half of the 9T and Rinnegan mastery.

And Momoshiki's Monkey Rock is portrayed above either of those avatars individually.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShadowBlade77 (Jun 18, 2021)

I can see the case being made for Momoshiki's superiority in terms of raw power, but not much else. And even if Momoshiki can see Madara's Limbo clones, so what? It's still four copies of Madara, each of them being equal to him. Momoshiki isn't beating five Madaras.


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> You're going straight into my ignore list, I'm tired of indulging your garbage.


you have said that ten times already

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

Extramarital Child said:


> I dunno really. Momo was underwhming. But still i pick him


how was he underwhelming?


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## Raiken (Jun 18, 2021)

Juudara Low Diffs this noob.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

You know you're a bad troll when the very same character you're stanning for agrees with your opponent:





Mods should just ban trolls already, this section is overrun by them

Reactions: Like 1


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## blk (Jun 18, 2021)

The idea that Madara can use the Rinnegan Paths as well as Nagato, just because the eyes are his originally, is unfounded.

It takes time to learn Dojutsu as shown in many cases.

Madara awakened the Rinnegan when very old and at the brink of death so he never used it in combat prior to being resurrected by ET.
Therefore he has no experience with Rinnegan (despite being his eyes) during his original lifespan.

Since he was resurrected by ET till his defeat at BZ's hand, less than a day passed in which he used the Paths powers very sparingly compared to Mokuton & Sharingan abilities.

Therefore it's highly probable that he simply didn't know how to use the Rinnegan Paths for the most part, considering how little time he had & used the eye.


Thus as far as we know Madara cannot be given stuff like CST or other Paths powers that he didn't show.

Reactions: Like 2


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## WhoFedAhri? (Jun 18, 2021)

New Folder said:


> how was he underwhelming?


He was losing to Naruto in Taijutsu hard. In the manga


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

Extramarital Child said:


> He was losing to Naruto in Taijutsu hard. In the manga


wasn't JJ Madara losing to Naruto & Sasuke as well and was forced to retreat? 
Even Sasuke was able to cut him in half. 

and Momoshiki faced a stronger version of Naruto & Sasuke.


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## WhoFedAhri? (Jun 18, 2021)

New Folder said:


> wasn't JJ Madara losing to Naruto & Sasuke as well and was forced to retreat?
> Even Sasuke was able to cut him in half.
> 
> and Momoshiki faced a stronger version of Naruto & Sasuke.


That was 1RG juudara. Since its only "juudara" in the title i assume it talk about 2RG Rinnesharingan Madara, who had 2 additional power ups from the version that Sasuke cut in half


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## Impulse (Jun 18, 2021)

Are we all assuming that this is 3 eye Madara @Ziggy


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

Extramarital Child said:


> That was 1RG juudara. Since its only "juudara" in the title i assume it talk about 2RG Rinnesharingan Madara, who had 2 additional power ups from the version that Sasuke cut in half


the 2nd Rinnegan doesn't make his Taijutsu gets better tho...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dergeist (Jun 18, 2021)

Extramarital Child said:


> Momo was able to contest against RSM Naruto and even overpower using that avatar of his. How does EMS madara win?



 Adult Naruto is at KCM level, the low Kage were able to rival Cuckshiki and his "planet" busting attacks couldn't even kill them or dent them, what's worse is that he was scrubbed by a base rasengan. How does he will here exactly


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## Steven (Jun 18, 2021)

Impulse785 said:


> Are we all assuming that this is 3 eye Madara @Ziggy


Jup,Maddy with Rinne-Sharingan

Reactions: Like 1


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## Onyx Emperor (Jun 18, 2021)



Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

Ziggy said:


> Jup,Maddy with Rinne-Sharingan


This is a joke. Mugen Tsukuymi oneshots. Momoshiki has no construct big enough to protect him from the Infinite light.

Momoshiki will finally be able of dreaming of a world where he can defeat Genin.


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## Sleepless (Jun 18, 2021)

Make it 10 Juudara's to make it a bit more fair.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

Momoshiki: "Loses to a 10 yo old genin"

Madara: "Pretty much kills everyone standing in his way and accomplishes his plan, was never defeated by the protagonists"

FanVerse: mAkE iT 10 MaDaRa To MaKe It FaIr

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> Momoshiki: "Loses to a 10 yo old genin"
> 
> Madara: "Pretty much kills everyone standing in his way and accomplishes his plan, was never defeated by the protagonists"
> 
> FanVerse: mAkE iT 10 MaDaRa To MaKe It FaIr


but this 10 years old is stronger than Madara by feats...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Goku (Jun 18, 2021)

dergeist said:


> Adult Naruto is at KCM level, the low Kage were able to rival Cuckshiki and his "planet" busting attacks couldn't even kill them or dent them, what's worse is that he was scrubbed by a base rasengan. How does he will here exactly


Adult Naruto and Sasuke were able to take down threats that Kaguya herself feared.


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## TheNirou (Jun 18, 2021)

Madara stomps this fodder

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## dergeist (Jun 18, 2021)

Vegito said:


> Adult Naruto and Sasuke were able to take down threats that Kaguya herself feared.



 the same threats getting slapped by the low kage (Darui, Kuro and Chojuro etc).


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

dergeist said:


> the same threats getting slapped by the low kage (Darui, Kuro and Chojuro etc).


but Chojuro defeated Zetsu who curbfodderstomped JJ Madara, no?   

Even the guy with the Mu's avatar (Forgot his name, Tsuchikage something?) despite his immense bias towards Madara, couldn't but to admit that
Chojuro solos his favourite...

Reactions: Winner 1


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## dergeist (Jun 18, 2021)

New Folder said:


> but Chojuro defeated Zetsu who curbfodderstomped JJ Madara, no?
> 
> Even the guy with the Mu's avatar (Forgot his name, Tsuchikage something?) despite his immense bias towards Madara, couldn't but to admit that
> Chojuro solos his favourite...



You mean deus ex machina 

Either way, it makes our fave (Cucknato) look like an even bigger fodder


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## Goku (Jun 18, 2021)

dergeist said:


> the same threats getting slapped by the low kage (Darui, Kuro and Chojuro etc).


The Otsutsuki aren't as skilled as ninjas. Chojuro allowed himself to be cut so Kinshiki can be find wide open in combat. Momoshiki didn't get defeated by any of the Kages, he was also being pressured by Naruto and Sasuke.


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

Vegito said:


> The Otsutsuki aren't as skilled as ninjas.


says who? 

that's just an excuse made my Madara's wankers.


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## dergeist (Jun 18, 2021)

Vegito said:


> The Otsutsuki aren't as skilled as ninjas. Chojuro allowed himself to be cut so Kinshiki can be find wide open in combat. Momoshiki didn't get defeated by any of the Kages, he was also being pressured by Naruto and Sasuke.



Yep, but that just confirms they're fodder so Kaguya would've clapped. As for Momoshit, he was running from and being pressed by Darui, Naruto and Sasken came later. After he realised he was going to get cum diffed by Darui he ate Kinshiki.


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## Alita (Jun 18, 2021)

Momoshiki destroys the overrated black zetsu fodder.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## MYGod000 (Jun 18, 2021)

Madara one shots Momoshiki with Limbo. 


Just a little bit of Ten tails chakra can make you almost as powerful Six path Adult Naruto. Momoshiki lost to Adult Naruto.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Sleepless (Jun 18, 2021)

Madara would literally explode if he had the chakra Kaguya did.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Madara would literally explode if he had the chakra Kaguya did.


Do you like have any actual argument instead of parroting what other trolls said?

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> Do you like have any actual argument instead of parroting what other trolls said?


but it's the Madara wankers who do not have any argument to present.  

they are just daydreaming about Momoshiki's Rinnegan not working...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

One blocked message.


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## Sleepless (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> Do you like have any actual argument instead of parroting what other trolls said?


Juudara loses to the Boruto Gokage even without Naruto.

Reactions: Like 3 | Dislike 2


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Juudara loses to the Boruto Gokage even without Naruto.


Say something so unbelievably nonsensically cringe again and I'm blocking you.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Goku (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> Say something so unbelievably nonsensically cringe again and I'm blocking you.


So you don't believe they are Kaguya-Level threats?


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

Vegito said:


> So you don't believe they are Kaguya-Level threats?


Aside from the fact that we are talking about the Boruto Kage and they would all get oneshot by Limbo Clones (and by "oneshot" I mean literally blown to bits), you don't believe that Madara reached Kaguya's level as Hagoromo stated? 

Of course you don't, because you are an infamous Madara hater dedicated to depriving Madara of all his credits while incessantly wanking the opposition

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## WhoFedAhri? (Jun 18, 2021)

I dont there is a person who is so much in love with madara as fused.


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## Sleepless (Jun 18, 2021)

Sasuke said himself that Kaguya has an incomprehensible chakra level so beyond Madara's that Madara himself turned into an inflated baloon about to explode on panel because of the amount of chakra Kaguya needed to come back.


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Sasuke said himself that Kaguya has an incomprehensible chakra level so beyond Madara's that Madara himself turned into an inflated baloon about to explode on panel because of the amount of chakra Kaguya needed to come back.


Sasuke also thought he was the strongest person in the world when he had Six Paths Naruto in front of him. What Sasuke thinks does not matter.

Sasuke also thought Amaterasu would be enough to kill a revived Madara.

*WHAT SASUKE THINKS. DOES. NOT. MATTER.*

And at that point it wasn't Madara absorbing all that chakra but Black Zetsu controlling Madara.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Goku (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> Aside from the fact that we are talking about the Boruto Kage and they would all get oneshot by Limbo Clones (and by "oneshot" I mean literally blown to bits), you don't believe that Madara reached Kaguya's level as Hagoromo stated?
> 
> Of course you don't, because you are an infamous Madara hater dedicated to depriving Madara of all his credits while incessantly wanking the opposition


Madara was trying to obtain her power as Hagoromo said. When he did, he was going to pop like a balloon.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

Vegito said:


> Madara was trying to obtain her power as Hagoromo said. When he did, he was going to pop like a balloon.


Already addressed hater. But I already know that won't change your mind since you're set on making Madara look weak and depriving him of all his showings.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Draghensalk (Jun 18, 2021)

Juubidara crush this fodder skull with a punch


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## Sleepless (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> Sasuke also thought he was the strongest person in the world when he had Six Paths Naruto in front of him. What Sasuke thinks does not matter.


...We see on panel all that chakra from the IT victims around the world going into Madara and Madara turning into a balloon, unable to handle the chakra. Afterwards Sasuke says she has waaaay more chakra than Kaguya, he literally has a rinnegan. Sasuke wasn't lying either, Kaguya is confirmed in the DB to have the most chakra needed to use her space-time jutsu as supporting evidence.

You might be able to disprove other statements, but you can't disprove these ones. Sasuke was actually stronger than Naruto with all the bijuu chakra, he didn't use all the bijuu chakra in their clash and was moving to use more but his hadn't mastered his rinnegan.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 2


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> ...We see on panel all that chakra from the IT victims around the world going into Madara and Madara turning into a balloon, unable to handle the chakra. Afterwards Sasuke says she has waaaay more chakra than Kaguya, he literally has a rinnegan. Sasuke wasn't lying either, Kaguya is confirmed in the DB to have the most chakra needed to use her space-time jutsu as supporting evidence.
> 
> You might be able to disprove other statements, but you can't disprove these ones. Sasuke was actually stronger than Naruto with all the bijuu chakra, he didn't use all the bijuu chakra in their clash and was moving to use more but his hadn't mastered his rinnegan.


We also see on panel Black Zetsu stabbing Madara, his black goo spreading through Madara's veins, and the chakra going into Madara only after that happened. Funny how you didn't mention that, you are so disingenuous. 

Greater chakra =/= Greater power, the day people will realize this should be a national festivity. 

And no Naruto was way stronger than Sasuke, since he fought evenly with him and all Tailed Beasts despite not having killing intent (unlike Sasuke).

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## Goku (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> We also see on panel Black Zetsu stabbing Madara, his black goo spreading through Madara's veins, and the chakra going into Madara only after that happened. Funny how you didn't mention that, you are so disingenuous.


That was necessary for Madara to become Kaguya, or else he would of pop like a balloon. The veins that aren't even covered by black goo were still swollen.


Fused said:


> Greater chakra =/= Greater power, the day people will realize this should be a national festivity.


Kaguya got an amp after absorbing the Infinite Tsukuyomi victims chakra, not sure why the same doesn't apply to Madara.


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

Vegito said:


> That was necessary for Madara to become Kaguya, or else he would of pop like a balloon. The veins that aren't even covered by black goo were still swollen.


I'm not interested in the false conjectures of Sasuke and in your headcanon.


Vegito said:


> Kaguya got an amp after absorbing the Infinite Tsukuyomi victims chakra, not sure why the same doesn't apply to Madara.


Exactly. Madara can also absorb the chakra of all those trapped under Mugen Tsukuyomi (which he cast) and get a massive boost from it, looks like you saw reason at long last.


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

Seriously the hypocrisy in this section is infuriating:

Sasuke: "OMGGGGG MOMOSHIKI >>>> KAGUYA OMG OMG OMG MADARA WAS EXPLODIONG OMG OMG GREATER CHAKRA OMGGGG"

FanVerse: Write that down, write that down!

Hagoromo (WHO LITERALLY FOUGHT HIS MOTHER FOR MONTHS): "Madara, with just one Rinnegan and Ten Tails, is already getting close to me, and he is also on his way to obtaining Kaguya's power."

FanVerse: You heard something?

Like no wonder this section is dead, who wants to debate with trolls who literally shut their ears off


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## Subtle (Jun 18, 2021)

I'm curious, How Madera is supposed to stabilise the absorbed chakra if BZ paralysed him beforehand? he has no control over his body much less stabilise the chakra that was forced into him by black zetsu.

Madara "I can't move!"


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## Sleepless (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> We also see on panel Black Zetsu stabbing Madara, his black goo spreading through Madara's veins, and the chakra going into Madara only after that happened. Funny how you didn't mention that, you are so disingenuous.


What's that got to do with anything lol. Yeah Zetsu was the one making Madara absorb the chakra.


Fused said:


> Greater chakra =/= Greater power, the day people will realize this should be a national festivity.


Kaguya has all the powers Madara had and more. Since Kaguya is literally Madara + massives amount of chakra. Greater chakra = greater power depending on how the chakra is used and released. For example, Naruto with kurama cloaks is an efficient use of massive amounts of chakra to massively increase his physical stats.

Also you need to be extremely powerful to handle certain amounts of chakra. As we see with Madara almost exploding because he couldn't handle Kaguya's level of chakra.


Fused said:


> And no Naruto was way stronger than Sasuke, since he fought evenly with him and all Tailed Beasts despite not having killing intent (unlike Sasuke).


I say Sasuke is 'stronger' (with the Bijuus) because

1. He managed to equal Naruto at his strongest (Naruto with his Buddha Kurama attack is at his strongest)
2. He didn't use the entirety of the chakra from the Bijuu and whilst Naruto was completely drained, he could've potentially used the Bijuus at that point in time

Killing intent or not, Sasuke actually had more raw power but he didn't anticipate his rinnegan wouldn't work. This sidepoint is pretty irrelevant anyway.


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## Sleepless (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> Hagoromo (WHO LITERALLY FOUGHT HIS MOTHER FOR MONTHS): "Madara, with just one Rinnegan and Ten Tails, is already getting close to me, and he is also on his way to obtaining Kaguya's power."


He was on his way but he never reached it.


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## Goku (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> Exactly. Madara can also absorb the chakra of all those trapped under Mugen Tsukuyomi (which he cast) and get a massive boost from it, looks like you saw reason at long last.


Do you concede that Kaguya was stronger than him during that moment?


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## Sleepless (Jun 18, 2021)

Subtle said:


> I'm curious, How Madera is supposed to stabilise the absorbed chakra if BZ paralysed him beforehand? he has no control over his body much less stabilise the chakra that was forced into him by black zetsu.


He just couldn't handle that level of chakra in his body and almost exploded. There is no "stabilising chakra".


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## Subtle (Jun 18, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> He just couldn't handle that level of chakra in his body and almost exploded. There is no "stabilising chakra".


He was going to explode because he had no control over his body due to BZ as he couldn't move.


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## Sleepless (Jun 18, 2021)

Subtle said:


> He was going to explode because he had no control over his body due to BZ as he couldn't move.


It's stated his body just couldn't handle that level of chakra. If he could, he would just absorb it and not turn into a huge balloon.


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## Goku (Jun 18, 2021)

Subtle said:


> He was going to explode because he had no control over his body due to BZ as he couldn't move.


It is literally stated that Madara's body couldn't handle the amount of chakra he took in. It would make no difference if he could move since his own body can't handle it.


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## Sleepless (Jun 18, 2021)

The chakra intake was to an extremely high extent so it makes sense. It was like another Ten Tails stacked onto Madara who already has an incomplete Ten Tails.


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## Subtle (Jun 18, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> It's stated his body just couldn't handle that level of chakra. If he could, he would just absorb it and not turn into a huge balloon.


It's stated by Sasuke who had no idea Madara was paralyzed.



Vegito said:


> It is literally stated that Madara's body couldn't handle the amount of chakra he took in.


How is he supposed to handle the chakra if he cannot move? 

You're taking Sasuke word too literally as he had he had no idea he was paralyzed. Kaguya and Madara share the same body.


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## Sleepless (Jun 18, 2021)

Subtle said:


> It's stated by Sasuke who had no idea Madara was paralyzed.


The paralysis is irrelevant. There is no such thing as "stabilising chakra to not explode" that's headcanon.


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## Sleepless (Jun 18, 2021)

Naruto and Sasuke are so suprised at this chakra that they're literally trying so hard to stop her from appearing in the first place. Sasuke then says her chakra is so much more powerful than Madara's he can't even believe she existed.


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## Goku (Jun 18, 2021)

Subtle said:


> How is he supposed to handle the chakra if he cannot move?


Handle what? It was too much for his body to tolerate, hence why his whole body started to become swollen. Black Zetsu actually merged with his body so he can become Kaguya.


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> What's that got to do with anything lol. Yeah Zetsu was the one making Madara absorb the chakra.


Maybe the fact that you can't control chakra if someone else is controlling you?


Sleepless said:


> Kaguya has all the powers Madara had and more.


She doesn't have Sharingan, she doesn't have Rinnegan, she doesn't have Hashirama's Cells, next.


Sleepless said:


> I say Sasuke is 'stronger' (with the Bijuus) because
> 
> 1. He managed to equal Naruto at his strongest (Naruto with his Buddha Kurama attack is at his strongest)
> 2. He didn't use the entirety of the chakra from the Bijuu and whilst Naruto was completely drained, he could've potentially used the Bijuus at that point in time
> ...


That still doesn't make him the strongest since it wouldn't be he who is so strong, but the Beasts.


Vegito said:


> Do you concede that Kaguya was stronger than him during that moment?


No, because she wasn't, and you have no evidence for that.


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## Subtle (Jun 18, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> The paralysis is irrelevant. There is no such thing as "stabilising chakra to not explode" that's headcanon.


So, you're saying even if Madara couldn't move or control any function within his body, it doesn't matter? He needs to have control over his body to be able to hold the chakra that is why BZ made him completely immobile before forcing the chakra into him




Vegito said:


> Handle what? It was too much for his body to tolerate, hence why his whole body started to become swollen.



Kaguya used Madara's body to control the chakra, how is it too much?


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## Sleepless (Jun 18, 2021)

Fused said:


> Maybe the fact that you can't control chakra if someone else is controlling you?


This doesn't even matter. Lol.


Fused said:


> She doesn't have Sharingan, she doesn't have Rinnegan, she doesn't have Hashirama's Cells, next.


Madara is literally her vessel + She has both the Sharingan and Rinnegan merged.


Fused said:


> That still doesn't make him the strongest since it wouldn't be he who is so strong, but the Beasts.


I meant him with the Beasts of course.


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## Sleepless (Jun 18, 2021)

Subtle said:


> So, you're saying even if Madara couldn't move or control any function within his body, it doesn't matter? He needs to have control over his body to be able to hold the chakra that is why BZ made him completely immobile before forcing the chakra into him


I'm saying this idea that Madara is paralysed therefore he's going to explode because he can't "stabilise" is headcanon. What is established is he can't actually handle that amount of chakra and Zetsu is the catalyst to turn him into Kaguya.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fused (Jun 18, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> This doesn't even matter. Lol.


Ignored.


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## Subtle (Jun 18, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> I'm saying this idea that Madara is paralysed therefore he's going to explode because he can't "stabilise" is headcanon. What is established is he can't actually handle that amount of chakra and Zetsu is the catalyst to turn him into Kaguya.


It may be headcanon to you but BZ was thinking strategically, that is why the first thing he did was paralyze him.

Again, How is he supposed to control the chakra, if he can't control the functions of his body? While Kaguya used the same body just fine.


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## Goku (Jun 18, 2021)

Subtle said:


> It may be headcanon to you but BZ was thinking strategically, that is why the first thing he did was paralyze him.
> 
> Again, How is he supposed to control the chakra, if he can't control the functions of his body? While Kaguya used the same body just fine.


If Zetsu couldn't paralyze him, then how could he properly inject the chakra within Madara? Black Zetsu merged with Madara's body to become Kaguya while he was going to pop like a balloon. This indicates Kaguya had a body to tolerate that amount of chakra, while Madara's didn't.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Subtle (Jun 18, 2021)

Vegito said:


> If Zetsu couldn't paralyze him, then how could he properly inject the chakra within Madara? Black Zetsu merged with Madara's body to become Kaguya while he was going to pop like a balloon. This indicates Kaguya had a body to tolerate that amount of chakra, while Madara's didn't.


He merged with the body for kaguya's return not to change the body, where did you obtain such information? As there is no indication of the body being any different.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 18, 2021)

Kaguya >>> Juudara >> Juubito >> Hashirama > Madara


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## dabi (Jun 18, 2021)

3 eyed Madara could honestly win via IT.

And weaker version of Madara loses tho.


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## Danisor (Jun 18, 2021)

Momoshitty has fans?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 19, 2021)

When did Ziggy Stardust get unbanned? 

Is @Code

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

Chibaku tensei gg
Momo has no counter to getting sealed in a moon sized ball of rock

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## Trojan (Jun 19, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> Chibaku tensei gg
> Momo has no counter to getting sealed in a moon sized ball of rock


Sasuke used it, and Momoshiki countered it just fine

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

New Folder said:


> Sasuke used it, and Momoshiki countered it just fine


And madara's chibaku tensei is stronger then sasuke's so it stands to reason that momo couldt escape said chibaku tensei

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Trojan (Jun 19, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> And madara's chibaku tensei is stronger then sasuke's so it stands to reason that momo couldt escape said chibaku tensei


says who?


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## Altiora Night (Jun 19, 2021)

New Folder said:


> Sasuke used it, and Momoshiki countered it just fine


... and without needing a portal to escape on top of that.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Onda Vital (Jun 19, 2021)

Momoshiki has better stats but he needs some absorbed jutsu to kill Madara.

Now it depends on which jutsus will Momo absorb before Madara realizes his technique. But honestly, Madara knows what rinnegan is so he should be vary of absorbtion even without seeing it. Also, can Momo reuse jutsus he absorbed or can he use them only once?

Madara has regen and likely bigger chakra reserves so he may as well outlast. Momo was getting kind of tiered in his fight against fatebros.

Then there is also limbo which Momo may not be able to see.


So overall, either Momo absorbs some big attack and kills Madara, or Madara outlasts and possibly kill him with limbo clones.
I guess there is also possiblility of lame BFR GG.


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Jun 19, 2021)

Juubi Jinchuuriki Madara low difficulty.

Can't counter Rikudo CT which required Prime Godruto, and Rikudo Jesusuke to split or combust, can't see Limbo, he failed to trounce a significantly rusty incarnation of Naruto, and Sasuke, both of whom defeated him without using anywhere near what they are capable of pulling off in thier prime.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1 | Lewd 1


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

New Folder said:


> says who?


Because sasuke does not have sage of six paths powers like madara and adult sasuke is far weaker then his past self anyway

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

MagicalMiraclesOfWater65 said:


> he failed to trounce a significantly rusty incarnation of Naruto, and Sasuke,



Also naruto had half of his chakra drained when he fought momoshiki so he was even weaker then what would be his norm at that point

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Trojan (Jun 19, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> Because sasuke does not have sage of six paths powers like madara and adult sasuke is far weaker then his past self anyway


nice headcanon

Reactions: Agree 1


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jun 19, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> Because sasuke does not have sage of six paths powers like madara and adult sasuke is far weaker then his past self anyway


Their CT doesn't even function the same.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

New Folder said:


> nice headcanon


How is it headcanon when it's verbatim stated naruto and sasuke got weaker?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Trojan (Jun 19, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> How is it headcanon when it's verbatim stated naruto and sasuke got weaker?


you are just being desprate. 

they got rusty Vs Shin
and Kishi explicitly stated that he couldn't make a strong opponent because the story was only 10 chapters long as a whole.
and the main focus was Salad's relation with her parents since a lot of people were asking him if she is related to Karin or not.


After that "fight" they are perfectly fine as we have seen Vs Momoshiki. They are stronger than their teens self as far as feats go.
you are just made about for one reason or the other.


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

New Folder said:


> you are just being desprate.


So your resorting to calling me names now really goes to show logical the consensus position would be





New Folder said:


> After that "fight" they are perfectly fine as we have seen Vs Momoshiki. They are stronger than their teens self as far as feats go.



What feats suggest they got stronger what when momoshiki got negged by gaara who was seen as fodder by madara let alone kaguya?



Keep up that cope, I know appealing to the majority and calling me desperate now exists as your only tactics which is digusting considering that you used actually be a decent member here calling out factual inaccuracies such as with the tobirama and itachi wankers but yet here you are arguing against the type of arguments that you once stood against


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## Goku (Jun 19, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> What feats suggest they got stronger what when momoshiki got negged by gaara who was seen as fodder by madara let alone kaguya?


Momoshiki is the one who negged Gaara.

They were confirmed to be threats greater than Kaguya.


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## Goku (Jun 19, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> Because sasuke does not have sage of six paths powers like madara and adult sasuke is far weaker then his past self anyway


You need to prove Sasuke was still rusty after the Shin fight since Killer Bee himself says fighting teaches more than training. Sasuke can use time space jutsu, which is something his past self never shown to do. He was also able to keep up pace with Kinshiki, someone who Kaguya even feared. Sasuke was also able fight alongside Naruto to defeat Momoshiki after he ate Kinshiki.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Raiken (Jun 19, 2021)

Vegito said:


> Momoshiki is the one who negged Gaara.
> 
> They were confirmed to be threats greater than Kaguya.


In no way does it specifically say Momo & Kinshiki. Sasuke is referring to the "Ootsutsuki Clan/Group" *as a WHOLE*, are a threat greater than Kaguya. That includes Isshiki. Or it's referring to Isshiki specifically, and Sasuke was simply wrong in his AS HE CALLED IT - HYPOTHISIS. Because Revived Kaguya >> Isshiki.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Raiken (Jun 19, 2021)

Vegito said:


> Sasuke flat out stated that the scroll was a warning about Kinshiki's and Momoshiki's attack.


Erm... no it didn't.


Vegito said:


> Why would Kaguya warn them about Isshiki when she thinks he's dead? How is Kaguya > Isshiki? The fact that she attacked him with killing intent when he was off guard shows she couldn't beat him in a head on fight.


It was just information about the Ootsutsuki Clan in general/as a whole. Not specific one.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Goku (Jun 19, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Erm... no it didn't.
> 
> It was just information about the Ootsutsuki Clan in general/as a whole. Not specific one.


I'm so confused. It clearly talked about Kinshiki and Momoshiki since that's how Sasuke would know their names. Sasuke stated what the scroll says was a warning about the duo's invasion, which happened.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## Altiora Night (Jun 19, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Erm... no it didn't.
> 
> It was just information about the Ootsutsuki Clan in general/as a whole. Not specific one.


Dude.

It clearly says in the scan...

"We finally decoded that scroll. The gist of what it says... is a warning about this *pair's* invasion apparently."

It's clearly talking about Momoshiki & Kinshiki, and Sasuke even knew them by their names.

We also don't know anything about the Ōtsutsuki other than the *SIX MEMBERS* shown on the Ōtsutsuki Clan murals.


*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Impulse (Jun 19, 2021)

Limbo or Bust and Momoshiki wins

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Raiken (Jun 19, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> Dude.
> 
> It clearly says in the scan...
> 
> "We finally decoded that scroll. The gist of what it says... is a warning about this *pair's* invasion apparently."


Literally just Sasuke's assumption of what the scroll was on about. Not what the scroll actually said.


Altiora Night said:


> It's clearly talking about Momoshiki & Kinshiki, and Sasuke even knew them by their names.


Erm, nope. And even if you are right. Sasukes HYPOTHESIS, about them being a Kaguya level threat was WAY off. I mean, they're Kaguya level compared to Kage Levels maybe. But they're still trash to Kaguya herself. They're not even God Tier, and he's on the low end of the spectrum alongside Juubito.

Transformed-Momoshiki is the only God Tier. They're only Demi-God/Founder Tier In their Base states.

Hell, I'd argue based on his performance. Kinshiki is only Top Tier, cant see him beating BM Naruto if he's getting overwhelmed by a couple of Mid-Kage levels.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

Vegito said:


> They were confirmed to be threats greater than Kaguya.



It was a hypothesis made by sasuke not any actual veritable fact and his assertion here is debunked just based off the fact that momo loses to far weaker foes then kaguya such as darui and gaara  



Raiken said:


> I mean, they're Kaguya level compared to Kage Levels maybe



He lost to boruto, he's not even close to kage levels considering his feats

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

Vegito said:


> Sasuke flat out stated that the scroll was a warning about Kinshiki's and Momoshiki's attack


Love how you ignore context of that scan just to push a false narrative but when im posting scans that say exactly what im saying verbatim im wrong because you people care moreso about beliefs than any actual facts but that what separates the supreme king from you animals really

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## Goku (Jun 19, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> Love how you ignore context of that scan just to push a false narrative but when im posting scans that say exactly what im saying verbatim im wrong because you people care moreso about beliefs than any actual facts but that what separates the supreme king from you animals really


Explain it then. He literally says their suspicions was correct right after the scroll was decoded.


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## Onyx Emperor (Jun 19, 2021)

Make it 10k more Fused Momos so it--
nvm the outcome won't change, Madara won't get tired after beating 10k fodders.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 2


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

Vegito said:


> Explain it then.


I did, He says it was a hypnosis not my fault that your grasping at straws here because your position does not match up with reality

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Goku (Jun 19, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> I did, He says it was a hypnosis not my fault that your grasping at straws here because your position does not match up with reality


He literally says their suspicions was correct right after the scroll was decoded. You have not yet responded to that.


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

BaragganLouisenbairn said:


> nvm the outcome won't change, Madara won't get tired after beating 10k fodders.


Indeed but your talking to people who act without reason like they literally belief this not because it's right but because they see the majority thinks as literal fact

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

Vegito said:


> He literally says their suspicions was correct right after the scroll was decoded. You have not yet responded to that.


Yes because statements are counted verbatim regardless of the context even though feats contradict that statement and it's funny that you go but that one statement mate but when your doing that exact same thing but for my position it does not matter funny how that works almost like your biased or something

Sasuke never even says kaguya is weaker in those scans anyways so it's not even claiming what your saying but again keep grasping at straws as if your side does not get destroyed everytime that you try to debate this nonsense

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Onyx Emperor (Jun 19, 2021)

@Bob74h why do your images look so awful with these outlines?


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

BaragganLouisenbairn said:


> @Bob74h why do your images look so awful with these outlines?


The imgur border?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Goku (Jun 19, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> Yes because statements are counted verbatim regardless of the context even though feats contradict that statement and it's funny that you go but that one statement mate but when doing that exact same thing but for my position it does not matter funny how that works almost like your biased or something


Btw, the scroll that Kaguya created made it clear that she couldn't defeat Momoshiki and Kinshiki without an army in the novels.


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## Sleepless (Jun 19, 2021)

Boruto Kage have zero anti-feats to make them weak so them fighting Momo doesn't make it an anti-feat for Momo.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## WhoFedAhri? (Jun 19, 2021)

For threats greater than Kaguya they sure were weak. But i chalk that up to boruto scaling etc.


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

Vegito said:


> without an army in the novels.



Yep her thinking she could beat them with white zetsu sure is impressive just ignore that they are far weaker then ones who fought in the 4th shinobi war who got bodied by neji


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## Sleepless (Jun 19, 2021)

Billions of Zetsu by the way not like 100k + Prime Kaguya


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

Extramarital Child said:


> For threats greater than Kaguya they sure were weak.



At best, You have her fearing momo's gang but even then she thinks that she can neg them with white zetsu so following the show's own internal logic they couldt be that strong individually


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## Sleepless (Jun 19, 2021)

In the manga, it's Momoshiki + Kinshiki quite explicitly. Base Momoshiki is pictured as a threat, and that's Momo from like thousands of years ago. We know that Momo is constantly eating chakra fruits as well.

She never thought she could've negged them btw that's headcanon. Creating billions of white zetsu is pretty much the best she could've done at that point, other than perhaps teaming up with her sons but she was going to steal their chakra anyway.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> She never thought she could've negged them btw that's headcanon



Yea it was pretty clear that she thought that she could beat them with white zetsu but considering she's described as having absolute power even compared to momoshiki, it's hard to think that she would lose to them

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Bob74h (Jun 19, 2021)

Vegito said:


> The first thing she did the in the War Arc was an attempt to turn most of the human population into White Zetsu soldiers.


As if she was not overly paranoid in general and again it's been stated that she thought these white zetsu would of faced the entire clan not just momo and co like kaguya was preparing for a entire species to raid earth not just three fodders so this whole bit in the story helps me more then helps you if anything


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## Goku (Jun 19, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> *she thought these white zetsu would of faced the entire clan*


Show me where the bolded was stated because the scroll Kaguya created made it clear that she knew Momoshiki and Kinshiki would invade.


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## Altiora Night (Jun 19, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Literally just Sasuke's assumption of what the scroll was on about. Not what the scroll actually said.


Nope. It's what it says, hence why it's said it was decoded and he knows their names.



> Hell, I'd argue based on his performance. Kinshiki is only Top Tier, cant see him beating BM Naruto if he's getting overwhelmed by a couple of Mid-Kage levels.


Kinshiki fought in a 3 on 1 handicap.

He was alone against Sasuke (well beyond Kage) and Chōjūrō + Kurotsuchi (2 Kage).

Kinshiki overwhelmed & punched Sasuke into a tree, requiring Chōjūrō to intervene and afterwards literally put his life on the line (who got quickly overwhelmed by Kinshiki) to give Kurotsuchi an opening, which Kinshiki would have seen if he had his Byakugan activated.

Then they relied on Sasuke's Chidori to damage and stun him sufficiently to trap him with their techniques.

Remove Chōjūrō & Kurotsuchi and Kinshiki's fight with Sasuke would have lasted longer.

Remove Sasuke and the 2 Kage would have been slaughtered in seconds.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Onyx Emperor (Jun 19, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Boruto Kage have zero anti-feats to make them weak so them fighting Momo doesn't make it an anti-feat for Momo.


Nothing suggests they're any different to their WA selves except of stupid borutards.

Reactions: Optimistic 2 | Lewd 1 | Dislike 1


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## Sleepless (Jun 19, 2021)

BaragganLouisenbairn said:


> Nothing suggests they're any different to their WA selves except of stupid borutards.


Except like a what 15 -20 year timeskip? To force your idea of them being weak you'd have to say they didn't get any stronger in that time. If anything, there's no evidence they got weaker or stayed the same for you to call it an anti-feat for Momo

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Onyx Emperor (Jun 19, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Except like a what 15 -20 year timeskip?


How are these jonin levels gonna make the gap of jutsu quality with just time? Using basic logic they are completely fodder compared to Raikage with his lightning cloak he runs them over.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Jun 19, 2021)

Adult Naruto AND Sasuke >>> Adult Naruto OR Sasuke >>> Teen Naruto > Madara

Momoshiki fought the former

Madara gets ragdolled

He is literally oneshot material for Momos Taijutsu after the Jigen fight happened, hes slower, he has no answer to BFR, and cannot use any Ninjutsu against Momoshiki or he autoloses to an amped version of his own shit

Madaras a fodder god tier and yall scrubs are gonna have to square with that some day 

Mugen is the only argument and even that ISNT an argument because Momo has Rinnegan AND can just BFR himself away from the light

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Onyx Emperor (Jun 19, 2021)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Adult Naruto AND Sasuke >>> Adult Naruto OR Sasuke


The only thing you said that's actually true in a long time, congrats.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Sleepless (Jun 19, 2021)

BaragganLouisenbairn said:


> How are these jonin levels gonna make the gap of jutsu quality with just time? Using basic logic they are completely fodder compared to Raikage with his lightning cloak he runs them over.


Cause kishimoto doesn't care about logic or power scaling, they can be as strong as he wants. I don't think it's logic breaking either it was off screen

Reactions: Agree 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Jun 19, 2021)

BaragganLouisenbairn said:


> The only thing you said that's actually true in a long time, congrats.


This might mean something to me if I knew who the fuck you were 

Literal "who" in here slinging pot shots at me as opposed to debating me

Nice to see after a 2 month sojourn, I, and the ass kickings I have dealt yall, still live rent free in yalls minds tho


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## MYGod000 (Jun 19, 2021)

Why should we Considering Momoshiki even a threat here...when Jigen who is More powerful than Momoshiki in any form when a small bit of the Ten tails chakra produced adult Six paths Naruto level increases? 

Madara has fully matured Ten tails Chakra+Final form of the ten tails merged into his own power.  Momoshiki isn't doing anything here. Still using The scroll which talked about Momoshiki jumping Kaguya as a feat for Momoshiki.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 19, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Cause kishimoto doesn't care about logic or power scaling, they can be as strong as he wants. I don't think it's logic breaking either it was off screen


If that the case than You need to accept that Momoshiki really isn't that strong when Kages are able to compete with him...nothing combat wise implies Momoshiki can fight Kaguya and win.


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## Onyx Emperor (Jun 19, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Cause kishimoto doesn't care about logic or power scaling, they can be as strong as he wants


So you say that you turn off logic to make boruto characters look strong? Kek

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sleepless (Jun 19, 2021)

BaragganLouisenbairn said:


> So you say that you turn off logic to make boruto characters look strong? Kek


Uh, I'm saying the gokage can be that strong if kishi wants it, just because you don't think so. Don't see how it's logic breaking either.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Friendly 1


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## Sleepless (Jun 19, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> If that the case than You need to accept that Momoshiki really isn't that strong when Kages are able to compete with him...nothing combat wise implies Momoshiki can fight Kaguya and win.


Nah it's established already. Kage being able to compete with him just makes them strong.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 19, 2021)

Argument from incredulity is no argument.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Onyx Emperor (Jun 19, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> I'm saying the gokage can be that strong if kishi wants it


ok, whenever Kishi confirms current gokage are strong enough to fight jj lvl threats, call me.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sleepless (Jun 19, 2021)

BaragganLouisenbairn said:


> ok, whenever Kishi confirms current gokage are strong enough to fight jj lvl threats, call me.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 19, 2021)

BaragganLouisenbairn said:


> ok, whenever Kishi confirms current gokage are strong enough to fight jj lvl threats, call me.



He did. It's called feats and portrayal.

Reactions: Kage 3


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## Fused (Jun 19, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> He did. It's called feats and portrayal.


It's called headcanon. The Five Kage can't even see Limbo and thus they will all be torn to bloody shreds.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 19, 2021)

Fused said:


> It's called headcanon. The Five Kage can't even see Limbo and thus they will all be torn to bloody shreds.



Gaara's sensory sand might help there and Naruto literally detected Limbo before, so incorrect.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 19, 2021)

Also, fighting JJ level threats =/ fighting Limbo, as not all JJ level threats have Limbo.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Onyx Emperor (Jun 19, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> It's called feats


laughed

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Onyx Emperor (Jun 19, 2021)

Fused said:


> It's called headcanon.


literally my words, i'm a bit too late tho.


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## Fused (Jun 19, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Gaara's sensory sand might help there and Naruto literally detected Limbo before, so incorrect.


This dude just said Gaara can sense Limbo...


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 19, 2021)

BaragganLouisenbairn said:


> laughed



But failed to present a coherent counter-argument, and hence, conceded.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 19, 2021)

Fused said:


> This dude just said Gaara can sense Limbo...



If they have a physical presence, Gaara's sand can detect them, it did the same for Muu and Gengetsu.

Read the manga, kid


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## Fused (Jun 19, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> If they have a physical presence, Gaara's sand can detect them, it did the same for Muu and Gengetsu.
> 
> Read the manga, kid


Like imagine comparing two filler fodder villains to *TEN TAILS JINCHUURIKI MADARA UCHIHA.*

Where did you go wrong  

And No, they don't have a physical presence because they exist in another realm entirely, it's kind of their whole speciality. Read the manga.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 19, 2021)

The Limbo clones clearly can interact with the physical world. And when they do, Gaara can sense them.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 19, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> CST is something momoshiki cannot counter
> Madara wins



Based on...? 

Momoshiki tanks using Monkey Rock.


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## Onyx Emperor (Jun 19, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> But failed to present a coherent counter-argument


Counter-argument against "feats" in boruto? get the hell out of here, Boruto is on early shippuden level by feats, CST destroys borutoverse.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 19, 2021)

BaragganLouisenbairn said:


> Counter-argument against "feats" in boruto? get the hell out of here, Boruto is on early shippuden level by feats, CST destroys borutoverse.



Dumb comment as usual 

50% Kurama already negged Chibaku Tensei back in the Pain arc and Naruto has 100% Kurama + SM, get out of here, troll 

And Sasuke's PS is on par with that, and Monkey Rock > either individually, and Isshiki negs either outright.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 19, 2021)

@BaragganLouisenbairn probably thinks Juudara < BOS KN1 Naruto in physical strength because he did less environmental damage with a kick, and < CE Lee in speed because his speed is far less visually impressive to onlookers and the reader 

That's the kind of troll he is

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Onyx Emperor (Jun 19, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Dumb comment as usual
> 
> 50% Kurama already negged Chibaku Tensei back in the Pain arc and Naruto has 100% Kurama + SM, get out of here, troll
> 
> And Sasuke's PS is on par with that, and Monkey Rock > either individually, and Isshiki negs either outright.


Boruto feats aren't related to Naruto feats since Nerdo and Sauce got nerfed below the ground.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 19, 2021)

BaragganLouisenbairn said:


> Boruto feats aren't related to Naruto feats since Nerdo and Sauce got nerfed below the ground



Based on? 

You keep saying it like it's a fact, yet you have never been able to provide evidence. Funny that...

Also, quick question of my own - do you believe _Kurama _got nerfed? If so, how?

Considering it's Kurama whose power Naruto uses in BSM, and which Sasuke matches, and which Momoshiki defeated?


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## Altiora Night (Jun 19, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Based on?


"I don't like Boruto, so IMO, Naruto feats don't carry over to Boruto because it's not like Boruto is a continuation of Naruto or anything."

Reactions: Winner 9


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 19, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> "I don't like Boruto, so IMO, Naruto feats don't carry over to Boruto because it's not like Boruto is a continuation of Naruto or anything."



I despise Boruto, more or less (more due to bad art and writing though), but the denial is strong.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Jun 19, 2021)

Rate n runs from the usual jokers with no argument 

Nothing new here tho its far more dead around here than it was even 2 months ago


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## WorldsStrongest (Jun 19, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> "I don't like Boruto, so IMO, Naruto feats don't carry over to Boruto because it's not like Boruto is a continuation of Naruto or anything."


Unironically the prevailing view of most galaxy brains around here


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## MYGod000 (Jun 19, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Nah it's established already. Kage being able to compete with him just makes them strong.


No, it doesn't. We seen The same Kages in previous arc Get wrecked by Non  six paths characters and Even Old Kages from the war had to save them.

it's established the Kages are not super strong at all.

let me rephrase that, they got Stronger...but they are not Strong enough to Handle Juubi Jin.  Baby Juubi in first form has been established as more powerful than V2 Jigen Curbstomped adult Naruto and Sasuke.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## ARGUS (Jun 20, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Based on...?
> 
> Momoshiki tanks using Monkey Rock.


You mean his golem? 
how does he even anticipate it coming when not a single character in the manga has done so?
Not to mention his golem gets one shotted by madaras PS. And then CST seals the deal


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 20, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> You mean his golem?
> how does he even anticipate it coming when not a single character in the manga has done so?



Rinnegan.



ARGUS said:


> Not to mention his golem gets one shotted by madaras PS



No, it doesn't. His Monkey Rock beat up Naruto's BSM, that is >>> Madara's PS.



ARGUS said:


> And then CST seals the deal



It doesn't do a thing, actually.


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## ARGUS (Jun 20, 2021)

New Folder said:


> Where did Madara use CST exactly?
> 
> for a guy who was around in the manga for over 100+ chapters, you would think his wankers do not need to use headcanon/fanfiction.
> But apparently not...


Because of 2 reasons 

1. pein did so using madaras very own eyes

2. Pein was not the original wielder and it has factually been stated that only the original weirder can unlock the full potential of the rinnegan 

Its not  headcanon when you just need simple logic to get to an obvious conclusion 

that’s like saying full kyuubi can’t use flash TBB because it was never shown doing it 
Despite the fact half kyuubi and BM naruto did

Reactions: Agree 1 | Lewd 1 | Dislike 1


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## Bob74h (Jun 20, 2021)

BaragganLouisenbairn said:


> Counter-argument against "feats" in boruto? get the hell out of here, Boruto is on early shippuden level by feats


Part 1 kakashi has better feats unironically like when he leveled a forest using zabuza's water dragon jutsu

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## ARGUS (Jun 20, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Rinnegan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, momoshiki has not shown the abilities to anticipate it
This is even worse when the man doesn’t have it connected to his optic nerve nor has he shown the deva path 

narutos BSM being above jin madaras PS is a wall of fail worthy statement 
Strength of PS is determined by strength of chakra 
Sasukes PS is RSM avatars physical equal 
And yet the formers PS is only fueled by half of rikudos yin and some rinnegan eye buff 

madaras PS is fueled by both of rikudos yin and yang as well as rinnegan eye as well as SPSM,
And the fact that madaras PS pre buff >>> sasukes PS pre buff 
gtFo with the above nonsense 

yet again, you have shown zero fkn evidence on how momo survives it or anticipates it
Concession accepted

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 20, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> No, momoshiki has not shown the abilities to anticipate it



And Madara has not used this technique either, therefore this argument is utterly meaningless. 



ARGUS said:


> This is even worse when the man doesn’t have it connected to his optic nerve



Doesn't matter, we saw through Shin Uchiha the eyes can be used even if they aren't connected like that.



ARGUS said:


> nor has he shown the deva path



Neither has Madara demonstrated this technique, your point?



ARGUS said:


> narutos BSM being above jin madaras PS is a wall of fail worthy statement



JJ Madara's PS is featless garbage, so no, it isn't.

Adult Naruto in base is comparable to his teen SPSM self (if not equal), his BSM >>> JJ Madara's PS.



ARGUS said:


> Strength of PS is determined by strength of chakra



Indeed, and Naruto >>> JJ Madara in chakra strength.



ARGUS said:


> Sasukes PS is RSM avatars physical equal
> And yet the formers PS is only fueled by half of rikudos yin and some rinnegan eye buff



Cool, you conveniently left out the fact Naruto gained the other half of Kurama and Sasuke had time to strengthen his Rinnegan too.



ARGUS said:


> madaras PS is fueled by both of rikudos yin and yang as well as rinnegan eye as well as SPSM



No ''as well'', Hagoromo's Yin and Yang are equivalent to the Rinnegan and SPSM respectively, and both Naruto and Sasuke outperform.



ARGUS said:


> And the fact that madaras PS pre buff >>> sasukes PS pre buff



Absolute balderdash. Madara hasn't demonstrated the ability to make his PS stronger like Sasuke can through Chidori or Enton.



ARGUS said:


> gtFo with the above nonsense



Stop trolling, Maru 



ARGUS said:


> yet again, you have shown zero fkn evidence on how momo survives it or anticipates it



Madara has zero feats using that technique.

50% Kurama already negged that technique in Pain's hands. 

JJ Madara is far stronger than Pain, but Momoshiki's Monkey Rock is similarly stronger than 50% Kurama.

There you go, friend.



ARGUS said:


> I concede



Concession accepted.

Reactions: Like 1


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## dergeist (Jun 20, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> No, momoshiki has not shown the abilities to anticipate it
> This is even worse when the man doesn’t have it connected to his optic nerve nor has he shown the deva path
> 
> narutos BSM being above jin madaras PS is a wall of fail worthy statement
> ...



Damn 

@Masochist Supreme getting hair troll ass schooled again

He's just a glutton for punishment.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 20, 2021)

dergeist said:


> @Masochist Supreme getting hair troll ass schooled again
> 
> He's just a glutton for punishment.



Ironic coming from the troll that routinely eats L every time we cross paths.


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## dergeist (Jun 20, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Ironic coming from the troll that routinely eats L every time we cross paths.



This clown thinks he hands out Ls, when he receives them faster and harder than a prisoner who drops the soap in a sex starved supermax


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 20, 2021)

dergeist said:


> This clown thinks he hands out Ls



Are you referring to yourself in third person? 

That's kinda cringe  



dergeist said:


> when he dishes them faster and harder than a gun firing bullets



Fixed.


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## Trojan (Jun 20, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> Because of 2 reasons
> 
> 1. pein did so using madaras very own eyes
> 
> ...



So, what you are saying he never did?  

and the point was not about whether he CAN use it or not, the point is whether he will use it.
and it's simply not a part of his fighting style.

just like no one assumes BM Minato will use 1000 clones like Naruto and every clone will start teleporting around. 

+

Momoshiki can use ST, and unlike Madara, he actually used it Vs Sasuke & Naruto.  
but I guess that was inconvenient for you to mention, was it not?


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## dergeist (Jun 20, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Please let me take those Ls faster than one that drops soap in a sex starved supermax's showers



You do you, I'm not one to interfere




Aegon Targaryen said:


> Please tear up my overused arse



Sorry, but curbcrawlers aren't my thing

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## DaVizWiz (Jun 20, 2021)

Madara should win. Like Naruto, who Momoshiki tried draining for hours and never came close to finishing, Madara has way too much chakra for Momoshiki to ever be capable of fully drinking and he doesn’t have any offense capable of getting past Madara’s five stacked defenses (Yin/Yang Ninjutsu Invulnerability, Vaping TSB Shields, Jutsu destroying Shinra Tensei, Jutsu deconstructing/drinking Preta Barrier, Limbo Switching).

It doesn’t help that Momo’s absorption ability capped at a Bijuudama and his best attack was floored through by a Rasengan from a weakened Base Naruto, if Madara throws one 1,000x Bijuudama (Juubidama) at him he blows up and the battle ends. IT also one shots, Rinnegan on the hands isn’t stopping him from being caught optically. Limbo punt him around like a soccer ball until he’s arrested by all 4 and vaped by a TSB detonation.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Disagree 4


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## MYGod000 (Jun 20, 2021)

Why are people using appeal to ignorance to argue here? Just because Madara didn't use PS in JJ state=/=Madara can't use PS while in JJ state.
Sasuke using PS and Naruto using Kurama avatar move is them using there full power...by Extension JJ Madara's Full power would also be PS.

Naruto used Sasuke's PS Blade to slice Momoshiki Monkey Rock avatar, Sasuke's PS is much weaker than Madara's PS.

Madara wins here in a horrible curbstomp.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## ARGUS (Jun 20, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> And Madara has not used this technique either, therefore this argument is utterly meaningless.


[/QUOTE]
Doesn’t mean he can’t use it 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Doesn't matter, we saw through Shin Uchiha the eyes can be used even if they aren't connected like that.


[/QUOTE]
Except he has the sharingan connected through his optic nerve  
Terrible example 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Neither has Madara demonstrated this technique, your point?
> 
> 
> 
> JJ Madara's PS is featless garbage, so no, it isn't.


[/QUOTE]
If ems madaea displayed PS then you’re the clown for assuming tjay jin madara with both eyes can’t use it 
 

as for featless PS, you just need a double digit IQ alongside simple scaling to find out tjay it’s far above adult sasukes in power. Something which I have already provided for your “competent” self



Aegon Targaryen said:


> *Adult Naruto in base is comparable to his teen SPSM self (if not equal), his BSM >>> JJ Madara's PS.*


[/QUOTE]
Welcome
To the wall of epic fail 
This is the boruto delusional wank which has made these forums toxic 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Indeed, and Naruto >>> JJ Madara in chakra strength.


[/QUOTE]
Double whammy 
Welcome to the wall of epic fail 
In what world does rikudo yang is stronger than yin, yang, and rinnegan eye chakra combined? 
 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Cool, you conveniently left out the fact Naruto gained the other half of Kurama and Sasuke had time to strengthen his Rinnegan too.


[/QUOTE]
Sasukes rinnegans chakra strength is exactly the same As he has the same rikudo chakra which was received whne he was a teen 

and narutos full kyuubi is noted and even with it he’s getting bodied by madaras PS

given that in terms of physical strength pre buff: 

PS = Sm mokujin (as shown in manga) > base mokujin = full kyuubi (as per dB4) 

and madaras buff > narutos buff as admitted by naruto himself 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> No ''as well'', Hagoromo's Yin and Yang are equivalent to the Rinnegan and SPSM respectively, and both Naruto and Sasuke outperform.


[/QUOTE]
No but when they’re combined theyre better than just one of them individually 
Basic Common sense  


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Absolute balderdash. Madara hasn't demonstrated the ability to make his PS stronger like Sasuke can through Chidori or Enton.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop trolling, Maru


[/QUOTE]
And since when does he need chidori or Enron to strengthen it? 
he has juubi chakra fueling it that dumps on chidori or enton 

and lol at maru reference, 
Baffles me beyond belief that you think I’m him 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Madara has zero feats using that technique.
> 
> 50% Kurama already negged that technique in Pain's hands.
> JJ Madara is far stronger than Pain, but Momoshiki's Monkey Rock is similarly stronger than 50% Kurama.
> ...


Are you seriously that daft? 
 — madara doesn’t need to display feats for a technique which we know he can perform
 — 50% kyuubi resisting peins sT is irrelevant because simple scaling can be used to determine that an ST from jin madara would be far far stronger 
 — monkey rock gets bodied by PS and momoshiki who died by base narutos rasengan gets shit stomped by CST especially
Since CST >>>> rasengan pre buff 
And so CST >>>> rasentan post buff

last reply
To you 
But thanks for the entertainment and welcome
To the wall of epic fail

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 20, 2021)

@ARGUS, your post is a mess, but the fact remains you have brought forth nothing but insults, headcanon, and pathetic scaling.

Love to see I'm on the list of people who clowned you by the way


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## ARGUS (Jun 20, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @ARGUS, your post is a mess, but the fact remains you have brought forth nothing but insults, headcanon, and pathetic scaling.
> 
> Love to see I'm on the list of people who clowned you by the way


Learn what facts are before accusing someone of not using them 

I stated the following 

— momoshikis rinnegan is not connected to his optic nerve so he can’t see through them and would therefore not see limbo. FACT 

— strength of PS is determined by strength of chakra. FACT 

— rijudo yin and yang > rikudo yang. FACT 

— momoshiki cannot anticipate ST just like every character has been unable
To do so, including KcM, SM sensing and sharingan precog. FACT.

— madaras PS = SM mokujin. FACT 

— base mokujin = full kyubi in strength as stated in dB4. FACT 

— sasukes chakra strength is exactly the same as his teen self because his strongest source is still the very same rikudo chakra he received as a kid. FACT 

— CST >>> COR pre buff. FACT

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 20, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> Learn what facts are before accusing someone of not using them



I did, and I'm going to teach you too  



ARGUS said:


> — momoshikis rinnegan is not connected to his optic nerve so he can’t see through them and would therefore not see limbo. FACT



To be honest, I'll need to look this up a little bit.

@Sparks @Altiora Night If I'm not mistaken, hasn't Momoshiki used his Rinnegan to ''see'' before?



ARGUS said:


> — strength of PS is determined by strength of chakra. FACT



Never said otherwise, troll. FACT.



ARGUS said:


> — rijudo yin and yang > rikudo yang. FACT



All things equal, yes. But in the case of Naruto and Sasuke and Madara, all things are NOT equal. FACT.

Sasuke with JUST Rikudo Yin was able to chase around Madara with Rikudo Yin AND Rikudo Yang. FACT.

Therefore, Sasuke's Rikudo Yin > Madara's Rikudo Yin AND Rikudo Yang combined. FACT.

And that's TEEN Sasuke, and a WEAKER Teen Sasuke than the one that ultimately fought Naruto after gaining more skill with Rinnegan.

Adult Sasuke's PS dumpsterdiffs Madara's featless PS. FACT.



ARGUS said:


> — momoshiki cannot anticipate ST just like every character has been unable



He doesn't need to, he can counter it after the fact like Naruto did in KN6 and in base. Fact.

Madara also has no feats of using it. Fact.



ARGUS said:


> — madaras PS = SM mokujin. FACT
> 
> — base mokujin = full kyubi in strength as stated in dB4. FACT.





ARGUS said:


> — sasukes chakra strength is exactly the same as his teen self because his strongest source is still the very same rikudo chakra he received as a kid. FACT



Wrong.

BASE Adult Naruto has a Rasengan comparable in strength to his Base SPSM's lava Rasenshuriken. FACT.

Adult Sasuke is ~ Adult SPSM Naruto, and his PS is ~ Naruto's BSM. FACT.

Adult PS ~ Adult BSM >>> Teen PS ~ Teen BSM > Juudara. 



ARGUS said:


> — CST



Madara has never used this. FACT.



ARGUS said:


> >>> COR pre buff. FACT



Not a fact, just your headcanon, Maru.


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## Sparks (Jun 20, 2021)

@Aegon Targaryen  Momoshiki should be able to see through his third eye Rinnegan. Like Kaguya and Madara's RinneSharingan, Momoshiki's third eye moves in conjunction with where his field of vision is focused.

Even Kidomaru’s third eye induced from a fodder CS2 transformation was said to boost his perception to be able to better aim his arrows. But somehow a Juubi Jin or an Otsutsuki can't see out of an eye formed by an infinitely more powerful transformation. It's fanfiction of the highest order.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Neutral 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 20, 2021)

Sparks said:


> @Aegon Targaryen  Momoshiki should be able to see through his third eye Rinnegan. Like Kaguya and Madara's RinneSharingan, Momoshiki's third eye moves in conjunction with where his field of vision is focused



Do you have scans?


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## Sparks (Jun 20, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Do you have scans?


Best example I was able to quickly find for Kaguya was after getting hit by the Cho Bijuu RS. The bijuu chakra starts to destabilize at the location where Naruto tore her arm off. The focus of all her eyes are shifted in that direction [].

Same with Momoshiki, though it's easier to tell in the anime.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Creative 1


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## Altiora Night (Jun 21, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @Sparks @Altiora Night If I'm not mistaken, hasn't Momoshiki used his Rinnegan to ''see'' before?


Momoshiki's third eye would glow red when activated (animated version) and as @Sparks noted, the eye is connected to his regular Byakugan eyes' field of view, thereby extending it.

Some peeps talk as if it's a mere decoration or tattoo like the symbol on Hagoromo's forehead, when it's clear the eyeball can move around.

Even in the manga, this could be observed, such as both  and .

Obviously the reason for that is so that they can argue that Momoshiki cannot see Limbo and is not immune to IT. It's all a ploy.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> Momoshiki's third eye would glow red when activated (animated version) and as @Sparks noted, the eye is connected to his regular Byakugan eyes' field of view, thereby extending it.
> 
> Some peeps talk as if it's a mere decoration or tattoo like the symbol on Hagoromo's forehead, when it's clear the eyeball can move around.
> 
> ...



He can't See Limbo, he was unable to see an invisible attack.  That is something you can't just brush away.

If you want to argue he can See out his 3rd eye that fine, but It's Been established that you need Six path Rikudō Sennin To even hope to damage Limbo. Why shouldn't it be the Same to see it?

When Sasuke saw Limbo His Rinnegan was enhanced with Six paths Senjutsu.

Momoshiki doesn't have a Rikudo Sennin enhanced Rinnegan, it been established that Otsutsuki clan don't use Senjutsu. There is no reason to believe Momoshiki Basic Rikudo Rinnegan would be able to see it.


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## Altiora Night (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> *Vomiting headcanon gibberish*


Fan-fic BS.

Genuinely can't believe you believe the things you say. Every single time you write something, it's to say something stupid.

Six Paths Senjutsu had absolutely nothing to do with Sasuke seeing Limbo.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

Momoshiki beats him to death and then eats him. Naruto with Six Paths Chakra and 100% Kurama > Basically all of the Bijuu at the same time excluding 50% Kurama inside Madara, so most of the Bijuu will be absorbed so quickly because Momoshiki eats Hachibi in seconds, most of the Bijuu will be like that. With Kurama who is > All the Bijuu put together, it will take a while longer.




Only Kurama will take a while to eat, the rest of the Bijuu are fodder.

+ Momoshiki eats chakra fruits on a regular basis whereas Madara has the handme downs of just one fruit.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> Fan-fic BS.
> 
> Genuinely can't believe you believe the things you say. Every single time you write something, it's to say something stupid.
> 
> Six Paths Senjutsu had absolutely nothing to do with Sasuke seeing Limbo.


That is just you resisting Information because of where it came from. 

You said Six paths Senjutsu had nothing to do with Sasuke Seeing Limbo, but you're ignoring that  the same principal is the only way to Damage it...so why wouldn't it be the same for seeing it as well? 


IIRC most of the people have made similar arguments for DMS Kakashi being able to Sense Limbo Because he had Obito's chakra with had Six paths Senjutsu.  Do you have any proof that It didn't have nothing to with It? Especially since It's Rikudo chakra while on Crack.

Why would you dismiss the fact that Momoshiki was unable to See an invisible attack? But Argue He can see an invisible attack that exist in another dimension?  What needs to be conveyed here is that Momoshiki Non-Senjutsu enhanced Rinnegan wasn't able to see an invisible attack...so what make you think he is going to *see* invisible attack that exist in another plane of existence.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Goku (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> so why wouldn't it be the same for seeing it as well?


Madara himself stated someone with a Rinnegan can see limbo.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

Six Paths Senjutsu is needed to sense Limbo whereas Rinnegan is needed to see it. But to interact with Limbo you need Six Paths Senjutsu.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Momoshiki beats him to death and then eats him. Naruto with Six Paths Chakra and 100% Kurama > Basically all of the Bijuu at the same time excluding 50% Kurama inside Madara, so most of the Bijuu will be absorbed so quickly because Momoshiki eats Hachibi in seconds, most of the Bijuu will be like that. With Kurama who is > All the Bijuu put together, it will take a while longer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Why is this Relevant?  The First Form  Juubi is>All the Bijuu combined including Kurama.


Momoshiki Struggled for half a Day to Absorb Just half of  Kurama, not even the full Kurama. The Ten tails in first form Like I mentioned has more chakra than Full kurama+all the other Bijuu combined chakra.

Momoshiki wouldn't be able to Absorb Ten tails out of Madara. Moreover, Madara also has a Mature Ten tails+God Tree which is even more powerful.  Momoshiki would have a better chance of Beating Isshiki than he would have of Absorbing The Ten tails out of Madara.

Madara would Break Momoshiki, the Only hope for Momoshiki is for him to absorb jutsu from Madara that he could use to Seal him otherwise He stands no chance. 

As fast as Sasuke was able to Figure out Momoshiki's Ability It safe to say Madara who is easily just as smart  wouldn't take long to Figure out Momoshiki's ability and then just decide to use Limbo which Momoshiki has no counter for and Hand to hand combat Momoshiki.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Vegito said:


> Madara himself stated someone with a Rinnegan can see limbo.



He was talking about Obito who was using His Own Rinnegan, This is conveyed by Madara Verbatim Stating he wants to Avoid  using Limbo while *Obito* *Still has His Rinnegan*. 

It doesn't say Just any Rinnegan user can see Limbo TF


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## Altiora Night (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> That is just me being a dishonest clown inventing stuff and trying to promote them as facts when no such thing was ever stated in the manga.


FTFY.



> You said Six paths Senjutsu had nothing to do with Sasuke Seeing Limbo.


Yes. It doesn't.



> ...but you're ignoring that  the same principal is the only way to Damage it...so why wouldn't it be the same for seeing it as well?


Because it wasn't stated to be as such.

It was *specifically stated in the manga* that Six Paths Sage chakra can allow one to hurt Limbo, but not that it's required to *see* them.

That's right, it's made-up bullshit from you.


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## Fused (Jun 21, 2021)

@MYGod000 is correct. The two Rinnegan users who saw Limbo both had Six Paths sage chakra too. Sasuke had Six Paths sage chakra from Hagoromo's seals, and Obito had Six Paths sage chakra from stealing a portion of Madara's Sage power earlier. So you cannot prove that Rinnegan is enough to see Limbo or if it needs to be augmented by Six Paths senjutsu/Six Paths chakra.

Surely a baby Nagato wouldn't be able to see Limbo, that's absurd.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Why is this Relevant?  The First Form  Juubi is>All the Bijuu combined including Kurama.
> 
> 
> Momoshiki Struggled for half a Day to Absorb Just half of  Kurama, not even the full Kurama. The Ten tails in first form Like I mentioned has more chakra than Full kurama+all the other Bijuu combined chakra.
> ...


Momoshiki struggles to absorb Naruto with his Six Paths Chakra + 100% Kurama. Not 50% Kurama. And the timeframe is actually not specified.

The Juubi is the combination of all the Bijuu added to make one powerful entity which is more much powerful than 50% Kurama without Six Paths Chakra. With Six Paths Chakra and Kurama, Naruto is able to fight against the Ten Tails Jinchuriki + God Tree who is more powerful than the Ten Tails alone. This Ten Tail Jinchuriki has more chakra than the previous Ten Tails (because Madara obtained 50% Kurama) who was more powerful than 50% Kurama.


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## Impulse (Jun 21, 2021)

Fused said:


> @MYGod000 is correct. The two Rinnegan users who saw Limbo both had Six Paths sage chakra too. Sasuke had Six Paths sage chakra from Hagoromo's seals, and Obito had Six Paths sage chakra from stealing a portion of Madara's Sage power earlier. So you cannot prove that Rinnegan is enough to see Limbo or if it needs to be augmented by Six Paths senjutsu/Six Paths chakra.
> 
> Surely a baby Nagato wouldn't be able to see Limbo, that's absurd.


The issue is that Madara and Sasuke only note that the Rinnegan was the reason that they saw it unlike Naruto who sensed the Limbo clones with his six path senjustu it not said if Sasuke too can sense them like Naruto


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> FTFY.
> 
> 
> Yes. It doesn't.
> ...



How can you say that with 100% certainly when Sasuke had Six paths Senjutsu from the Yin Seal when he saw Limbo? 

It was stated You need Six paths Sage chakra to damage Limbo which Sasuke also stated he has. implying he has Six paths Senjutsu chakra.  That alone should tell you.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

Yeah I mean, it's stated Six Paths Senjutsu lets you sense it and the rinnegan allows you to see it. The chakra only allows you to sense it, that is specified.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Impulse785 said:


> The issue is that Madara and Sasuke only note that the Rinnegan was the reason that they saw it unlike Naruto who sensed the Limbo clones with his six path senjustu it not said if Sasuke too can sense them like Naruto



Yeah, and Sasuke also Stated when He damaged Limbo that he had Six path Sage Chakra as well...so i mean it connected. 

Regardless if they didn't mention it Sasuke conveyed that he had Six paths Sage chakra which was required to Damaged Limbo.


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## Altiora Night (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> How can you say that with 100% certainly when Sasuke had Six paths Senjutsu from the Yin Seal when he saw Limbo?
> 
> It was stated You need Six paths Sage chakra to damage Limbo which Sasuke also stated he has. implying he has Six paths Senjutsu chakra.  That alone should tell you.


Madara bluntly says: "The Rinnegan's allowing him to see it."

He attributes Sasuke seeing the Limbo *ONLY* thanks to the Rinnegan.

Madara *doesn't* say the Rinnegan *and* Six Paths Sage chakra are allowing Sasuke to see the Limbo.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fused (Jun 21, 2021)

Impulse785 said:


> The issue is that Madara and Sasuke only note that the Rinnegan was the reason that they saw it unlike Naruto who sensed the Limbo clones with his six path senjustu it not said if Sasuke too can sense them like Naruto


Madara noted that using Limbo against Obito would be foolish only AFTER Obito had stolen some of his Six Paths Sage chakra. Before that, Madara never once doubted in the capabilities of his Limbo Clones to aid him against his enemies, despite knowing full well that Obito (Rinnegan user) had joined forces with his enemy after Naruto's Talk no Jutsu.

So this tells us that Madara, BEFORE OBITO ABSORBED SOME OF HIS SAGE CHAKRA, was confident in the capabilities of his Limbo, and sensed a problem only AFTER Obito had already absorbed some of his Sage chakra. The timing of Madara's remark is not random.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Momoshiki struggles to absorb Naruto with his Six Paths Chakra + 100% Kurama. Not 50% Kurama. And the timeframe is actually not specified.
> 
> The Juubi is the combination of all the Bijuu added to make one powerful entity which is more much powerful than 50% Kurama without Six Paths Chakra. With Six Paths Chakra and Kurama, Naruto is able to fight against the Ten Tails Jinchuriki + God Tree who is more powerful than the Ten Tails alone. This Ten Tail Jinchuriki has more chakra than the previous Ten Tails (because Madara obtained 50% Kurama) who was more powerful than 50% Kurama.



Momoshiki was only after Kurama, this was Stated by Sasuke. 

Adult Naruto with Six path chakra is also Weaker than the Ten tails, It was stated that Kurama was the reason Naruto had his superhuman strength and Healing.  Like I said  Momoshiki has 0 chance of Absorbing a Ten tails which is leagues more powerful than full kurama which Took Momoshiki half a Day just to get half of Kurama.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Momoshiki was only after Kurama, this was Stated by Sasuke.
> 
> Adult Naruto with Six path chakra is also Weaker than the Ten tails, It was stated that Kurama was the reason Naruto had his superhuman strength and Healing.  Like I said  Momoshiki has 0 chance of Absorbing a Ten tails which is leagues more powerful than full kurama which Took Momoshiki half a Day just to get half of Kurama.


He didn't end up with Kurama, he ended up with Six Paths Naruto + 100% Kurama and again, the time isn't specified.

Adult Naruto~Teen Naruto. Teen Naruto fights people much stronger than the Ten Tails. That's false because he fights Momoshiki in Base for a time and he also has Six Path Senjutsu and Sage Mode. Even without those things, Base Naruto not having superhuman strength is retarded. It didn't take Momoshiki half a day and it wasn't just half of Kurama.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> Madara bluntly says: "The Rinnegan's allowing him to see it."
> 
> He attributes Sasuke seeing the Limbo *ONLY* thanks to the Rinnegan.
> 
> Madara *doesn't* say the Rinnegan *and* Six Paths Sage chakra are allowing Sasuke to see the Limbo.


Like I said at the end of the Day you also have to add in that Sasuke had Six paths Senjutsu which he Acknowledges. 

Sasuke when He saw Limbo also had Six paths Senjutsu and he acknowledged that when He damaged Limbo. 


Otsutsuki don't have Senjutsu, unless they become Ten tails hosts.  like I keep reminding you Momoshiki was unable to See Invisible attack from his Rinnegan so what chance does he have of Seeing invisible Attack from another Dimension?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> He didn't end up with Kurama, he ended up with Six Paths Naruto + 100% Kurama and again, the time isn't specified.
> 
> Adult Naruto~Teen Naruto. Teen Naruto fights people much stronger than the Ten Tails. That's false because he fights Momoshiki in Base for a time and he also has Six Path Senjutsu and Sage Mode. Even without those things, Base Naruto not having superhuman strength is retarded. It didn't take Momoshiki half a day and it wasn't just half of Kurama.



That the thing it doesn't matter what you think at the end of the day. what matter is what is stated.  what is stated is Naruto currently no longer has superhuman Strengths since he no longer has Kurama.

Sasuke Acknowledged that Momoshiki was after Bijuu Chakra  and nothing more.  it also acknowledge that Ten tails chakra is beyond All the Tailed Beast Combined Chakra which includes the 9 tails. 

So Momoshiki isn't doing anything to Madara.  Like I said Just a little bit of a Baby Ten tails was enough chakra to advance Jigen into V2 Jigen who was able to curbstomp Both Adult Naruto+Sasuke. 

V1 Jigen was implied to be equal to or slightly greater than Adult Naruto. What we are left with is that Ten tails>Jigen and Momoshiki as well as Adult Naruto and Sasuke. 

Madara is a host to a Mature Ten tails+God Tree which is even stronger.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> That the thing it doesn't matter what you think at the end of the day. what matter is what is stated. what is stated is Naruto currently no longer has superhuman Strengths since he no longer has Kurama.
> 
> Sasuke Acknowledged that Momoshiki was after Bijuu Chakra and nothing more. it also acknowledge that Ten tails chakra is beyond All the Tailed Beast Combined Chakra which includes the 9 tails.
> 
> ...


Feats disprove it.

I am saying it doesn't matter what Momoshiki was after, Naruto not only has Kurama he also has Six Paths Chakra which boosted his abilities to be on par with the Ten Tail Jinchuriki more powerful than the Ten Tails.

Absorbing chakra from the Ten Tails doesn't make it stronger + Who said it was a "baby Ten Tails". It's not even called 'Ten Tails' it's just a new unidentified Bijuu resembling the Ten Tails.

This scaling doesn't make any sense, how is Jigen weaker than the Ten Tails? Jigen fodderised and subdued this Bijuu.


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## dergeist (Jun 21, 2021)

Sparks said:


> Best example I was able to quickly find for Kaguya was after getting hit by the Cho Bijuu RS. The bijuu chakra starts to destabilize at the location where Naruto tore her arm off. The focus of all her eyes are shifted in that direction [].
> 
> Same with Momoshiki, though it's easier to tell in the anime.



That's the filler version of the fodder and no proof he can see through it, otherwise he would've seen through loads of jutsu.


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## Altiora Night (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> This scaling doesn't make any sense, how is Jigen weaker than the Ten Tails?


He's using Kawaki's statement that Naruto *might* be stronger than Jigen, when Kawaki didn't fully know the extent of Naruto and Jigen's powers.

Meanwhile Koji thought Naruto's power wasn't enough to bring Jigen down and he would need *much more*.



Later on, Koji even believed Naruto didn't have a sliver of chance of beating Jigen and even with Sasuke, they would have minimal chances of winning.



Koji is far more knowledgeable of Jigen and Naruto than Kawaki is, so obviously his opinion has more substance to it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Goku (Jun 21, 2021)

dergeist said:


> That's the filler version of the fodder and no proof he can see through it, otherwise he would've seen through loads of jutsu.


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## dergeist (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> It's not even called 'Ten Tails' *it's just a new unidentified Bijuu resembling the Ten Tails.*


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## dergeist (Jun 21, 2021)

I'm not sure what you're getting at


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

dergeist said:


>



Yeah it's pretty funny to call this the Ten Tails when Sasuke doesn't even call it that and just calls it Biju rather then Ten Tails. It's basic logic, *resembles =/= is*

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Goku (Jun 21, 2021)

dergeist said:


> I'm not sure what you're getting at


When his eye moves, the eye on his forehead moves just like Kaguya's.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Impulse (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Yeah it's pretty funny to call this the Ten Tails when Sasuke doesn't even call it that and just calls it Biju rather then Ten Tails. It's basic logic, *resembles =/= is*


But didn't Jigen call it the Juubi panels later


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

Vegito said:


> When his eye moves, the eye on his forehead moves just like Kaguya's.


We need a statement that he can see through his eye to know he see's through his eye...obviously


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

Impulse785 said:


> But didn't Jigen call it the Juubi panels later


Even so it doesn't matter, it isn't the same thing as what Naruto and Sasuke fought, for all we know it could be stronger or weaker. And Isshiki merely using it as a battery with his vessel that he knows is trash doesn't mean anything. If anything, Jigen is the one who has to beat the crap out of it and seal it in the first place.


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## dergeist (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Yeah it's pretty funny to call this the Ten Tails when Sasuke doesn't even call it that and just calls it Biju rather then Ten Tails. It's basic logic, *resembles =/= is*



Yeah, Sasuke is trying to figure out what it is, because it's not the earth's 10 tails. Tailed beasts are still out and about. Then we have Jigen tell you what it is.





Vegito said:


> When his eye moves, the eye on his forehead moves just like Kaguya's.



Not sure if you're being serious, and using Kodachi's shit tier art style to justify it

You don't even see a pupil in his art style ffs, so can't really say much about it

Also, even if true, we can't establish it functions the same as the earth's/rokudo's rinnegan


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## Altiora Night (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Like I said at the end of the Day you also have to add in that Sasuke had Six paths Senjutsu which he Acknowledges.
> 
> Sasuke when He saw Limbo also had Six paths Senjutsu and he acknowledged that when He damaged Limbo.


All irrelevant. You went from talking about *seeing* them thanks to Six Paths Senjutsu, to now talking about *damaging* them.

It wasn't stated that you require Six Paths Senjutsu to *see* the Limbo.

Unless you provide a scan that states SPS is required to see the Limbo, it all remains your headcanon.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

dergeist said:


> Yeah, Sasuke is trying to figure out what it is, because it's not the earth's 10 tails. Tailed beasts are still out and about. Then we have Jigen tell you what it is.


Ok fair enough, idk how I missed that, it is a Ten Tails from another harvested world, but it doesn't mean much. The main point is how does it support any of that scaling


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## dergeist (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Ok fair enough, idk how I missed that, it is a Ten Tails from another harvested world, but it doesn't mean much. The main point is how does it support any of that scaling



It kind of does though, 10 tails chakra is 10 tails chakra, the only thing that varies is the volume of it.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

dergeist said:


> It kind of does though, 10 tails chakra is 10 tails chakra, the only thing that varies is the volume of it.


It doesn't at all because this Ten Tails doesn't fight or do anything and Isshiki just uses it as a battery. None of it proves the Ten Tails is above Jigen or Naruto. And we don't know how strong it is.


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## Altiora Night (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> It doesn't at all because this Ten Tails doesn't fight or do anything and Isshiki just uses it as a battery. None of it proves the Ten Tails is above Jigen or Naruto. And we don't know how strong it is.


Kara's Ten-Tails is a seedling that wasn't yet given a living Ōtsutsuki as sacrifice.

The war Ten-Tails was already mature and already had a sacrifice given to it, hence why it didn't need any Ōtsutsuki fed to it in order to become a Divine Tree.

Kara's Ten-Tails is still a baby, that's not even as big as a Tailed Beast yet.

Reactions: Like 1


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## dergeist (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> It doesn't at all because this Ten Tails doesn't fight or do anything and Isshiki just uses it as a battery. None of it proves the Ten Tails is above Jigen or Naruto. And we don't know how strong it is.



It doesn't need to fight, Jigen absorbed it's powers to boost him for the fight against the two. Karma is also an attack booster or have your forgotten. Anyway, it's (what Jigen did) the same way Sasuke synthesised Bijuu chakra fragments into a Jyubi replicant for BPS. However, unlike that instance Jigen took it into himself to boost him.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Feats disprove it.
> 
> I am saying it doesn't matter what Momoshiki was after, Naruto not only has Kurama he also has Six Paths Chakra which boosted his abilities to be on par with the Ten Tail Jinchuriki more powerful than the Ten Tails.
> 
> ...



Feats and Statements disproves that. 

Naruto was not on par with Ten tails jinchuriki, that was why Both Sasuke and Naruto were given Seals to defeat it by Sealing it away not defeating it and killing it in combat like They did to Momoshiki.



Yes, it did. Jigen got more powerful after Absorbing a little bit of the Ten tails chakra.  The Ten tails in his first Form is a seedling, it is at the beginning stages of becoming a God Tree.

Madara had a mature Ten tails which was what we saw in the war+God Tree which is the final Stage of the Ten tails. 


Madara had both Mature Ten tails+God Tree Absorbed as a host. 

Jigen Didn't Fodderized it, he just subdued it's movements, this doesn't imply Superiority.  Obito was able to Control the Ten tails...that doesn't mean he Fodderized it. 


That doesn't negate the Fact that Jigen used the Ten tails Chakra when he was previously Stated in the manga and in the anime to be equal or Greater than Adult Naruto and Curbstomped Naruto+Sasuke in V2 the form he gained from Absorbing chakra from the Ten tails.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Feats and Statements disproves that.
> 
> Naruto was not on par with Ten tails jinchuriki, that was why Both Sasuke and Naruto were given Seals to defeat it by Sealing it away not defeating it and killing it in combat like They did to Momoshiki.
> 
> ...


Are you seriously arguing Naruto doesn't have 'superhuman strength' without kurama after reading and watching Naruto per-war arc? Please.

They literally fought Madara multiple times and harmed him and his Limbo clones. Sasuke slashed him in half. The seal is there because of immortality and if Kaguya appears, not because they can't harm Madara.

That really doesn't mean anything, absorbing chakra and getting stronger doesn't mean what you've absorbed is stronger than you. That's a weird argument. Seedling or not, it's strength is unknown, it's not from the same planet.

Jigen's rods are able to pierce it and pin it down, much more than anything Obito could do. Obito needs to use hax abilities through the rinnegan so there's no real comparison here.

That statement has already been disproven above. It's headcanon to claim he 'gained' V2 after absorbing the chakra, that is unknown.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

dergeist said:


> It doesn't need to fight, Jigen absorbed it's powers to boost him for the fight against the two. Karma is also an attack booster or have your forgotten. Anyway, it's (what Jigen did) the same way Sasuke synthesised Bijuu chakra fragments into a Jyubi replicant for BPS. However, unlike that instance Jigen took it into himself to boost him.


Ok? Absorbing it's powers doesn't make it stronger than Jigen that's such a weird argument.


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## Altiora Night (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> That doesn't negate the Fact that Jigen used the Ten tails Chakra when he was previously Stated in the manga and in the anime to be equal or Greater than Adult Naruto and Curbstomped Naruto+Sasuke in V2 the form he gained from Absorbing chakra from the Ten tails.


Your statements are false and made-up.

This is what Koji said *before* Jigen absorbed chakra from Ten-Tails.



This is what Koji said later on and *he didn't know* Jigen absorbed chakra from Ten-Tails.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> It doesn't at all because this Ten Tails doesn't fight or do anything and Isshiki just uses it as a *battery*. None of it proves the Ten Tails is above Jigen or Naruto. And we don't know how strong it is.




If the a Baby Ten tails is being used as a Battery That pretty much seals the deal here. 


Jigen with that Baby Ten tails chakra Stomped Adult+Sasuke. Which you just previously tried to claim As Teens Six paths Powers and Kurama Made them stronger than a Ten tails.  Already your Argument is falling apart. 

From this we can conclude this Discussion here V1 Jigen who Equal to Adult Naruto was able to Crush NAruto+Sasuke  combined might just from Absorbing a little bit of Chakra from a Ten tails. Madara had a mature Ten tails+God Tree...so why wouldn't be able to do the same thing? 

Momoshiki was absolutely Curbstomped by Adult Naruto+ Sasuke.


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## dergeist (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Ok? Absorbing it's powers doesn't make it stronger than Jigen that's such a weird argument.



It kind of does, Jigen needed Jyubi power to fight Cuckbros, Sasuke needed Jyubi power to fight RSM Naruto. Also, Hashiroids pinned Jyubi no diff and I doubt anybody is going to argue edo Hashi (weaker than living Hashi) is stronger than the Jyubi

That's why your line of argument is confusing.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> If the a Baby Ten tails is being used as a Battery That pretty much seals the deal here.
> 
> 
> Jigen with that Baby Ten tails chakra Stomped Adult+Sasuke. Which you just previously tried to claim As Teens Six paths Powers and Kurama Made them stronger than a Ten tails.  Already your Argument is falling apart.
> ...


No it doesn't lol.

Jigen absorbing the Ten Tails chakra just means he absorbed Ten Tails chakra. Jigen alone is already incredibly powerful so your implicit argument which is "Jigen was incredibly weak beforehand and then opted to absorb some Ten Tails chakra to be able to do anything to Naruto and Sasuke" is wrong and has no sound premises.

Incorrect as I said, your implicit argument is unproven. You need to prove he need to prove a snippet of Ten Tails chakra was needed. 

The scaling chain is much better in this fashion and actually valid:

Adult Naruto and Sasuke >~ Teen Naruto and Sasuke ~ Madara >~ Lone Ten Tails


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> Your statements are false and made-up.
> 
> This is what Koji said *before* Jigen absorbed chakra from Ten-Tails.
> 
> ...



You're using Naruto's fight with Delta To argue?  The chakra he used Against Delta wasn't enough that is true because Delta is Crap tier level. 


Kojin under the assumption that the Power He used against Delta wouldn't be enough for Him to beat Jigen, Even with Sasuke help who rivals Naruto's powers. 



Yet We See  Kojin who is Stated to be much weaker than either of The fate Bros last pretty well against Isshiki who is>Jigen.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

dergeist said:


> It kind of does, Jigen needed Jyubi power to fight Cuckbros, Sasuke needed Jyubi power to fight RSM Naruto. Also, Hashiroids pinned Jyubi no diff and I doubt anybody is going to argue edo Hashi (weaker than living Hashi) is stronger than the Jyubi


This is unproven. Hashirama used a sealing jutsu, Jigen pierced it throughout.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> No it doesn't lol.
> 
> Jigen absorbing the Ten Tails chakra just means he absorbed Ten Tails chakra. Jigen alone is already incredibly powerful so your implicit argument which is "Jigen was incredibly weak beforehand and then opted to absorb some Ten Tails chakra to be able to do anything to Naruto and Sasuke" is wrong and has no sound premises.
> 
> ...


I never said Jigen was weak.

I said he was weaker than a Ten tails. If your mindset is being Weaker than a Ten tails=Being weak...then IDK what more to tell you.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> I never said Jigen was weak.
> 
> I said he was weaker than a Ten tails.


You have like no evidence for this. Absorbing Ten Tails chakra doesn't make him weaker. It just means he absorbed Ten Tails chakra, that's it.


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## dergeist (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> They literally fought Madara multiple times and harmed him and his Limbo clones. Sasuke slashed him in half. The seal is there because of immortality and if Kaguya appears, not because they can't harm Madara.



That never happened, Sasuke has senjutsu flowing through him at that point. And no, Hogaromo explicitly gave those seals to them to defeat Madara. Kaguya appearing wasn't even on his mind, he didn't even knew she was the 10 tails.



Sleepless said:


> This is unproven. Hashirama used a sealing jutsu, Jigen pierced it throughout.



It kind of isn't, Obito was also using rods to bind and control the tailed beasts. It's the same principle as the sealing jutsu

Also, Madara broke the gates off of a flex.

Also, on the absorbing chakra point go back to Sasuke vs Naruto, it does boost a person, no need to pretend otherwise. This is a Sasuke who could tango with a JJ btw  so..


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> You have like no evidence for this. Absorbing Ten Tails chakra doesn't make him weaker. It just means he absorbed Ten Tails chakra, that's it.



I never argued Jigen Absorbing the ten tails chakra make him weaker.  I said Jigen absorbing the Ten tails chakra Made him stronger.  This was evident by the fact Prior to this fight Jigen had conflicting Statements of being Equal or Greater than Adult Naruto. 

Being Greater than Adult Naruto doesn't mean you can Stomp Both Naruto+His equal at the same time in combat. 

Jigen After Absorbing The ten tails chakra went from Being just slightly Stronger than Naruto to being Massively stronger since he could Stomp both After his Ten tails Visit. 

 clearly the Ten tails made Jigen massively stronger than before. 

V1 to V2 is stated to be massive difference in power.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

dergeist said:


> That never happened, Sasuke has senjutsu flowing through him at that point. And no, Hogaromo explicitly gave those seals to them to defeat Madara.


Naruto bruised a Limbo clone but hitting it, that is factual.
Sasuke slashed Madara open, that is factual. 
So both happened.

The sealing jutsu is just that. A powerful sealing jutsu, nothing more, nothing less. And they were able to hurt Madara without it. 


dergeist said:


> It kind of isn't, Obito was also using rods to bind and control the tailed beasts. It's the same principle as the sealing jutsu
> 
> Also, Madara broke the gates off of a flex.


He used rinnegan hax to do that.


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## dergeist (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Naruto bruised a Limbo clone but hitting it, that is factual.
> Sasuke slashed Madara open, that is factual.
> So both happened.



Naruto has active six paths senjutsu, that is the fact.

Sasuke has a black Eiso from the hand which has the seal, that's a fact.

so you're mistaken on the how and why.



Sleepless said:


> The sealing jutsu is just that. A powerful sealing jutsu, nothing more, nothing less. And they were able to hurt Madara without it.
> 
> He used rinnegan hax to do that.



Nope, they weren't and it is composed of six paths senjutsu.

Obito didn't use Rinnegan hax, he used rods.

Madara also didn't use Rinnegan hax, he used a flex.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Naruto bruised a Limbo clone but hitting it, that is factual.
> Sasuke slashed Madara open, that is factual.
> So both happened.
> 
> ...



Hurting Madara using six paths Senjutsu=/=Killing him. 

They couldn't defeat Madara without Sealing him which is the point. 

Madara was able to Regenerate from having his body blown in half and cut in half.  Isshiki almost died from being split in half, while Madara laughed at that.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> I never argued Jigen Absorbing the ten tails chakra make him weaker.  I said Jigen absorbing the Ten tails chakra Made him stronger.  This was evident by the fact Prior to this fight Jigen had conflicting Statements of being Equal or Greater than Adult Naruto.
> 
> Being Greater than Adult Naruto doesn't mean you can Stomp Both Naruto+His equal at the same time in combat.
> 
> ...


Those statements have already been debunked. 

Being greater than Naruto is unquatifiable, you could be great enough to be able to do that.

Those statements have no basis so incorrect. 

Jigen was already strong without the Ten Tails and if anything got the chakra to be able to stay in the vessel longer rather than get stronger, if he did get stronger it doesn't make the Ten Tails more powerful than him. 

Incorrect, it didn't make him massively stronger because your statement argument is in the mud.

Irrelevant to be honest.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Altiora Night (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> You're using Naruto's fight with Delta To argue?  The chakra he used Against Delta wasn't enough that is true because Delta is Crap tier level.


Koji's statement is still > Kawaki's statement (the one you're using).

You're using a statement from Kawaki who never saw Naruto actually fight in battle and who was just guessing how strong Naruto was.



Koji's statement > Kawaki's.

Deal with it.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Hurting Madara using six paths Senjutsu=/=Killing him.
> 
> They couldn't defeat Madara without Sealing him which is the point.
> 
> Madara was able to Regenerate from having his body blown in half and cut in half. Isshiki almost died from being split in half, while Madara laughed at that.


That;s the point, I am putting them on the same playing field in terms of power by virtue of harming each other, Madara just has his immortality which I've already said needed the seal as well as Kaguya.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

dergeist said:


> Naruto has active six paths senjutsu, that is the fact.
> 
> Sasuke has a black Eiso from the hand which has the seal, that's a fact.
> 
> so you're mistaken on the how and why.


So? His senjutsu allows him to interact with the Limbos and he bruised them. That's it lol. Naruto retains his Six Paths powers as well as Sasuke.

So?


dergeist said:


> Nope, they weren't and it is composed of six paths senjutsu.
> 
> Obito didn't use Rinnegan hax, he used rods.
> 
> Madara also didn't use Rinnegan hax, he used a flex.


...The rods on the Bijuu are literally because of the Gedo Mazo which is the exact counter to Bijuu, it's hax.

Lol what does Madara have to do with anything


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Those statements have already been debunked.
> 
> Being greater than Naruto is unquatifiable, you could be great enough to be able to do that.
> 
> ...


your argument doesn't debunk the fact that Jigen needed to go visit The ten tails before he paid Naruto a Visit. 

 It doesn't debunk the fact that Jigen absorbed chakra from the Ten tails which Boosted Jigen to V2 which is stated to be massively above v1. 

It doesn't negate the fact that Jigen Stated killing Naruto would cause to much effort so he decided to seal him instead. 
Jigen had the power to defeat Naruto but not Jigen him. 

So how is Momoshiki going to do that when He couldn't even do the same to Naruto?


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## dergeist (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> So? His senjutsu allows him to interact with the Limbos and he bruised them. That's it lol. Naruto retains his Six Paths powers as well as Sasuke.
> 
> So?



So you agree it was six paths senjutsu that allowed it? And no Sasuke doesn't retain it (senjutsu) post loss of seal. Nor does Naruto, although he retains RSM as he couldn't even regrow an arm.



Sleepless said:


> ...The rods on the Bijuu are literally because of the Gedo Mazo which is the exact counter to Bijuu, it's hax.



Nope, Madara can create rods, so can Obito and Nagato. They're not because of the Mezo.



Sleepless said:


> Lol what does Madara have to do with anything



You were talking about sealing jutsu being the reason Jyubi was unable to move and I was like no, Madara broke them off of a flex.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> Koji's statement is still > Kawaki's statement (the one you're using).
> 
> You're using a statement from Kawaki who never saw Naruto actually fight in battle and who was just guessing how strong Naruto was.
> 
> ...



You're using Statements from a Battle Naruto had with Delta where he was clearly holding back to make your claim.

Then you ignore the fact That Jigen stated it would take too much effort for him to Kill Naruto so he decided to seal him. 

Regardless your still left with Jigen having the power to defeat Naruto but was unable to kill Naruto.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> your argument doesn't debunk the fact that Jigen needed to go visit The ten tails before he paid Naruto a Visit.
> 
> It doesn't debunk the fact that Jigen absorbed chakra from the Ten tails which Boosted Jigen to V2 which is stated to be massively above v1.
> 
> ...


Ok? This doesn't make the Ten Tails stronger than him

It isn't proven he needed that chakra to boost him to that state. Chakra is chakra, of course if he has the oppurtunity to get more, why not?

Yes this doesn't mean much in term of your scaling, Jigen as a vessel is getting weaker and weaker progressivly so perhaps he feared that Naruto could take advantage of this. 

Momoshiki is stronger than Madara so he bodies him lol. Just because he failed to defeat Adult Naruto and Sasuke who are both stronger than before and he is enough to make Prime Kaguya resort to building an army of billions alongside herself.


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## Altiora Night (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> You're using Statements from a Battle Naruto had with Delta where he was clearly holding back to make your claim.


A statement still better than the one you used  regardless, due to having more basis. Don't forget that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

dergeist said:


> So you agree it was six paths senjutsu that allowed it? And no Sasuke doesn't retain it (senjutsu) post loss of seal. Nor does Naruto, although he retains RSM as he couldn't even regrow an arm.


Yes, Six Path Senjutsu allowed the interaction with the Limbo. Both of them retain all the power Hagoromo gives them except the sealing. Six Path Senjutsu doesn't grant him that level of regen, he isn't the Juubi Jinchuriki. 


dergeist said:


> Nope, Madara can create rods, so can Obito and Nagato. They're not because of the Mezo.


He didn't use those rinnegan rods, he used one connected to the Gedo Mazo. Those basic rinnegan rods alone don't allow for Bijuu control. Either way they didn't pierce the Bijuu to the same extent.


dergeist said:


> You were talking about sealing jutsu being the reason Jyubi was unable to move and I was like no, Madara broke them off of a flex.


Madara can break sealing jutsu then...? Lol ok and? He has multiple feats of being able to neg diff sealing. Bijuu hasn't.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> That;s the point, I am putting them on the same playing field in terms of power by virtue of harming each other, Madara just has his immortality which I've already said needed the seal as well as Kaguya.




Them being able to harm him was because they had Six paths Senjutsu. Senjutsu is the Weakness of JJ which Momoshiki and the OTsutsuki clan don't have. 

They weren't on the same playing field Because the ten Tails gave Madara far more chakra than Naruto and Sasuke have. 

Naruto Admitting fighting the Ten tails would be worst Case scenario. implying the Ten tails is massive Threat, That Ten tails like I said is weaker than the one we see in the war Which was mature and was able to transform into higher stages until it was at it final stage.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> A statement still better than the one you used  regardless, due to having more basis. Don't forget that.



Then you ignore that Kojin who was weaker than Naruto did well against Isshiki>Jigen

so your statement is now null by feats of Kojin being able to stand up with Isshiki.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Them being able to harm him was because they had Six paths Senjutsu. Senjutsu is the Weakness of JJ which Momoshiki and the OTsutsuki clan don't have.
> 
> They weren't on the same playing field Because the ten Tails gave Madara far more chakra than Naruto and Sasuke have.
> 
> Naruto Admitting fighting the Ten tails would be worst Case scenario. implying the Ten tails is massive Threat, That Ten tails like I said is weaker than the one we see in the war Which was mature and was able to transform into higher stages until it was at it final stage.


They can harm him with basic taijutsu as well, idk why you're acting like taijutsu is the only thing needed. Plus Momoshiki has eaten numerous chakra fruits before inculding God Trees down to the stump.

They were lol, Madara was getting bodied before his second eye. If anything their chakra is more comparable especially with Hagoromo's chakra added onto theirs.

No he admitted another Otsutsuki eating yet another chakra fruit and using Boruto would be the worst case scenario. As well as a Divine Tree would basically kill everyone on the planet, it's not just a case of fighting the Ten Tails itself, it's also fighting someone who is already significantly powerful without it and then using the Ten Tails again. This is after Naruto loses Kurama btw


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## dergeist (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Yes, Six Path Senjutsu allowed the interaction with the Limbo. Both of them retain all the power Hagoromo gives them except the sealing. Six Path Senjutsu doesn't grant him that level of regen, he isn't the Juubi Jinchuriki.



No, they lost the seals and the senjutsu it granted. They have only part of the power remaining. He was recreating eyes, yet couldn't recreate arms, so not sure what you're getting at? That power disappeared with the seals.



Sleepless said:


> He didn't use those rinnegan rods, he used one connected to the Gedo Mazo. Those basic rinnegan rods alone don't allow for Bijuu control. Either way they didn't pierce the Bijuu to the same extent.



No he didn't, he used Rinnegan Rods, he even manifested a chain out of his hand, he even fired rods at 8 tails to bind it's movements. They're Rinnegan rods he's using, and sometimes employs them via the Mezo.




Sleepless said:


> Madara can break sealing jutsu then...? Lol ok and? He has multiple feats of being able to neg diff sealing. Bijuu hasn't.



The sealing jutsu wasn't specifically for the Jyubi or tailed beasts. No what this means is Madara is stronger than the Jyubi or the jutsu doesn't actually seal. Also, the bigger problem is it is supposed to break the will to fight, if that's the case, then how was Jyubi able to spawn Jyubilings to fight

It goes back to what I said Hashi restrained it.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Ok? This doesn't make the Ten Tails stronger than him



The ten tails has more chakra then him. 


Sleepless said:


> It isn't proven he needed that chakra to boost him to that state. Chakra is chakra, of course if he has the oppurtunity to get more, why not?


Well he still went there so...you have no argument against that. This also Debunks your previous argument that Jigen could have defeated Both Naruto and Sasuke together.  


Sleepless said:


> Yes this doesn't mean much in term of your scaling, Jigen as a vessel is getting weaker and weaker progressivly so perhaps he feared that Naruto could take advantage of this.


this only helps my case, if he is progressively getting weaker than Like I said The Ten tails Brought him back to his full powers which Stomp Naruto+Sasuke.


Sleepless said:


> Momoshiki is stronger than Madara so he bodies him lol. Just because he failed to defeat Adult Naruto and Sasuke who are both stronger than before and he is enough to make Prime Kaguya resort to building an army of billions alongside herself.


No he isn't. He is weaker than Naruto who is weaker than the Ten tails.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> They can harm him with basic taijutsu as well, idk why you're acting like taijutsu is the only thing needed. Plus Momoshiki has eaten numerous chakra fruits before inculding God Trees down to the stump.
> 
> They were lol, Madara was getting bodied before his second eye. If anything their chakra is more comparable especially with Hagoromo's chakra added onto theirs.
> 
> No he admitted another Otsutsuki eating yet another chakra fruit and using Boruto would be the worst case scenario. As well as a Divine Tree would basically kill everyone on the planet, it's not just a case of fighting the Ten Tails itself, it's also fighting someone who is already significantly powerful without it and then using the Ten Tails again. This is after Naruto loses Kurama btw



Eating Chakra=/=Absorbing Ten tails+God Tree.

They only Landed 3 Attacks on Him which he  negated diff.  go read the manga again, Sasuke used his Rinnegan to teleport his Sword into Madara chest which did nothing to him BTW.  Then, Attacked by Moving him where they both Got a Free attack on him.

It doesn't negate the Fact that Madara had massively more chakra then them,  Momoshiki stated the 9 tails chakra was massive.

Ten tails>>9Tails+all tailed Beast combined Chakra

That automatically puts Madara above Momoshiki in chakra. Then you argued that Jigen who is>Momoshiki was getting weaker before he visited the Ten tails which gave him much more chakra to go and stomp Adult Naruto and Sasuke who against Curbstomped Momoshiki. 

No they said Fighting the Ten tails would Be the worst case Since It has the power to drain the planet killing everyone.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

dergeist said:


> No, they lost the seals and the senjutsu it granted. They have only part of the power remaining. He was recreating eyes, yet couldn't recreate arms, so not sure what you're getting at? That power disappeared with the seals.


They didn't lose their senjutsu. The seal is only for sealing and some other technique Ying-Yang release to recreate limbs. He lost the seal on his hand that could do that. 


dergeist said:


> No he didn't, he used Rinnegan Rods, he even manifested a chain out of his hand, he even fired rods at 8 tails to bind it's movements. They're Rinnegan rods he's using, and sometimes employs them via the Mezo.


Ok in the end, this doesn't prove they can use these rods on the Ten Tails and pierce though it. 


dergeist said:


> The sealing jutsu wasn't specifically for the Jyubi or tailed beasts. No what this means is Madara is stronger than the Jyubi or the jutsu doesn't actually seal. Also, the bigger problem is it is supposed to break the will to fight, if that's the case, then how was Jyubi able to spawn Jyubilings to fight
> 
> It goes back to what I said Hashi restrained it.


It's a sealing jutsu and Madara resist sealing jutsu. That's why he broke out.

 He restrained it with sealing jutsu.


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## Fused (Jun 21, 2021)

This thread is nonsensical. Clearly people here haven't paid attention to the story.

Please tell me how Momoshiki is even going to damage Madara, let alone kill him? Madara not only is immortal and has perfect regeneration capabilities (unlike Momoshiki who is a mortal who can't even regenerate), but as Ten Tails Jinchuuriki it is said that only Senjutsu and Taijutsu can work on him. Momoshiki lacks Senjutsu, so his only chance is fighting Madara at a Taijutsu fight. Except that Madara not only is a master of Taijutsu, but he can simply keep his distance from Momoshiki and keep firing at him all of his powerful techniques, upon which Momoshiki will have no chance to touch him. Especially since Madara can also envelop himself inside "Truth Seeker Orbs", which again can only be touched by those with Senjutsu. So again Momoshiki is completely countered.

Because of the very nature of Ten Tails and Senjutsu, only Kaguya, Ten Tails itself, can stand a chance and even hope to damage Madara.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> The ten tails has more chakra then him.


No evidence for this.


MYGod000 said:


> Well he still went there so...you have no argument against that. This also Debunks your previous argument that Jigen could have defeated Both Naruto and Sasuke together.


He went there and absrobed chakra sure, that doesn't debunk anything. Him absorbing chakra doesn't prove he needed it and it's debunked by Naruto and Sasuke already being more powerful than Ten Tails. 


MYGod000 said:


> this only helps my case, if he is progressively getting weaker than Like I said The Ten tails Brought him back to his full powers which Stomp Naruto+Sasuke.


No evidence it 'brought him back to his fullpower' more headcanon. 


MYGod000 said:


> No he isn't. He is weaker than Naruto who is weaker than the Ten tails.


Naruto is on par with Juubi Jinchuriki who is stronger than the Ten Tails, this cannot be debunked.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> They didn't lose their senjutsu. The seal is only for sealing and some other technique Ying-Yang release to recreate limbs. He lost the seal on his hand that could do that.
> 
> Ok in the end, this doesn't prove they can use these rods on the Ten Tails and pierce though it.
> 
> ...



It stated Six path Senjutsu is required to activate the Seal....They no longer have the seals.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Eating Chakra=/=Absorbing Ten tails+God Tree.
> 
> They only Landed 3 Attacks on Him which he negated diff. go read the manga again, Sasuke used his Rinnegan to teleport his Sword into Madara chest which did nothing to him BTW. Then, Attacked by Moving him where they both Got a Free attack on him.
> 
> ...


The Chakra Fruit is literally what gave Kaguya the Ten Tails. As you already said, seedlings are used and then transformed into a God Tree which ripens into a Chakra Fruit. So it's a case of absorbing chakra on that level. Kaguya has eaten one whereas Momoshiki has eaten numerous.

They were able to pierce and harm his body, without his immortality he would've died. One-eyed Madara didn't land a single attack on them besides puching Naruto once.

No evidence + Momoshiki referred to Kurama + Naruto's Six Paths Chakra

Already addressed, Naruto with Six Paths Chakra + 50% Kurama is already stronger than the Juubi.

Incorrect.

The Ten Tails turning into a God Tree was the threat because it life wipes, not that Naruto cannot fight the actual Ten Tails itself, also this was after Naruto had lost kurama.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> It stated Six path Senjutsu is required to activate the Seal....They no longer have the seals.


And this proves Six Paths Chakra is gone...how?


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## dergeist (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> They didn't lose their senjutsu. The seal is only for sealing and some other technique Ying-Yang release to recreate limbs. He lost the seal on his hand that could do that.



Now you're being dishonest, the seals contained the Senjutsu which is why they could perform the SPST via it. It, senjutsu, is it's requirement. He gifted two powers Rinnegan and RSM, + seals containing his yin and yang senjutsu. They lost the latter, that is why Naruto could no longer recreate the limbs and Sauce couldn't use senjutsu.



Sleepless said:


> Ok in the end, this doesn't prove they can use these rods on the Ten Tails and pierce though it.



Why not? They can pierce tailed beasts and restrain tailed beasts, but they can't pierce 10 tails (a tailed beast or restrain it even though Hashi can), when it's (10 tails) arm got cut off by fodder alliance ninja

Not sure where you're going with this?



Sleepless said:


> It's a sealing jutsu and Madara resist sealing jutsu. That's why he broke out.
> 
> He restrained it with sealing jutsu.



No, it subdues by removing the will to fight  neither the Jyubi nor Madara lost the will to fight. If the Jyubi lost the will to fight, it wouldn't have spawned Jyubilings. Being fuinn jutsu is a meh argument here. That's the point I'm making.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> No evidence for this.


It does, If a little bit of the Ten tails Chakra brought him back to Full power. then it safe to conclude The ten tails has more chakra. 


Sleepless said:


> He went there and absrobed chakra sure, that doesn't debunk anything. Him absorbing chakra doesn't prove he needed it and it's debunked by Naruto and Sasuke already being more powerful than Ten Tails.



According to you Jigen was getting weaker...and just a little bit of the Ten tails chakra brought Jigen back to full power. 


Sleepless said:


> No evidence it 'brought him back to his fullpower' more headcanon.



You said He was weaker, and progressively getting weaker... for him to advance to V2 that Little bit of the Ten tails chakra Jigen revived was massive.


Sleepless said:


> Naruto is on par with Juubi Jinchuriki who is stronger than the Ten Tails, this cannot be debunked.




That is irrelevant to Boruto, Naruto in Boruto is who we are discussing.  Naruto wasn't on par with a Juubi Jin He admitted he needed help to Defeat Madara.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

dergeist said:


> Now you're being dishonest, the seals contained the Senjutsu which is why they could perform the SPST via it. It, senjutsu, is it's requirement. He gifted two powers Rinnegan and RSM, + seals containing his yin and yang senjutsu. They lost the latter, that is why Naruto could no longer recreate the limbs and Sauce couldn't use senjutsu.


Wrong, the seals were a one-time thing that Hagoromo gave them but the seals are a result of Six Path Senjutsu not the otherway around so losing the seals doesn't mean they lost Six Paths.


dergeist said:


> Why not? They can pierce tailed beasts, but they can't pierce 10 tails, when it's arm got cut off by fodder alliance ninja
> 
> Not sure where you're going with this?


They can't pierce the Ten Tails like Jigen could with rods that completely seal it's movement. Perhaps those fodder parts of it's body.


dergeist said:


> No, it subdues by removing the will to fight neither the Jyubi nor Madara lost the will to fight. If the Jyubi lost the will to fight, it wouldn't have spawned Jyubilings. Being fuinn jutsu is a meh argument here. That's the point I'm making.


My point is, Hashirama is using hax sealing. He isn't using something like rods to pierce most of it's body and seal it's movement. Madara resists sealing in general that is the only reason he can break out of it.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> And this proves Six Paths Chakra is gone...how?



Stop using Straw man fallacies against people in Debate...no one said Naruto Six paths chakra was gone. Actually pay attention, What is being said is He no longer has Six path Senjutsu.

Six paths Senjutsu>>>>Six path Chakra.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> It does, If a little bit of the Ten tails Chakra brought him back to Full power. then it safe to conclude The ten tails has more chakra.


There's no evidence 'it brought him back to fullpower' more headcanon.


MYGod000 said:


> According to you Jigen was getting weaker...and just a little bit of the Ten tails chakra brought Jigen back to full power.


He is getting weaker progressively, yes, Ten Tails didn't bring him back to full power however he was getting weaker regardless of that tidbit of chakra. 


MYGod000 said:


> You said He was weaker, and progressively getting weaker... for him to advance to V2 that Little bit of the Ten tails chakra Jigen revived was massive.


Him going into V2 means nothing. 


MYGod000 said:


> That is irrelevant to Boruto, Naruto in Boruto is who we are discussing. Naruto wasn't on par with a Juubi Jin He admitted he needed help to Defeat Madara.


Feats>statements. He can harm and contend with Madara and also tanks his attacks, one shot his CTs which is what I mean by on par. Madara>>>>>>Juubi on it's lonesome.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Stop using Straw man fallacies against people in Debate...no one said Naruto Six paths chakra was gone. Actually pay attention, What is being said is He no longer has Six path Senjutsu.
> 
> Six paths Senjutsu>>>>Six path Chakra.


Ok, how does this prove Six Paths Senjutsu is gone? Naruto literally uses it with his Bijuu Modes.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

@Sleepless 

This wasn't the first Time Jigen went to absorb chakra from the Ten tails. 

It proves my point that Jigen power came from Absorbing chakra from the Ten tails.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> This wasn't the first Time Jigen went to absorb chakra from the Ten tails.
> 
> It proves my point that Jigen power came from Absorbing chakra from the Ten tails.


That is why I am saying he is using this to sustain his vessel more than anything. Jigen's power comes from Isshiki, that is made extremely obvious, he's just using this battery because his vessel is getting weaker and weaker. These seedlings are literal fodder being thrown around to create God Trees and eat fruits, that is what Momoshiki has been doing over and over.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> There's no evidence 'it brought him back to fullpower' more headcanon.
> 
> He is getting weaker progressively, yes, Ten Tails didn't bring him back to full power however he was getting weaker regardless of that tidbit of chakra.
> 
> ...



too bad Statements also works against you here as well.



By Feats Jigen is weaker than the Ten tails which is stated to have the power to destroy the planet...something Jigen can't do without a Ten tails. 

Naruto needing Sasuke help to fight Madara in a 2v1 doesn't prove he was on par it proves the opposite.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Ok, how does this prove Six Paths Senjutsu is gone? Naruto literally uses it with his Bijuu Modes.



Because it stated Six paths Senjutsu is needed to activate the seals. 

with The Seal alone Naruto was able to enter Base SPSM, he can't do that in boruto.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dergeist (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Wrong, the seals were a one-time thing that Hagoromo gave them but the seals are a result of Six Path Senjutsu not the otherway around so losing the seals doesn't mean they lost Six Paths.



What on earth are you talking about? They lost the seals that contained the six paths yin and yang senjutsu. There's a reason Naruto couldn't use COAT, a power of the seal, nor Sasuke use his Yin senjutsu powered attacks afterwards.



Sleepless said:


> They can't pierce the Ten Tails like Jigen could with rods that completely seal it's movement. Perhaps those fodder parts of it's body.



No proof they can't, and the rods allow a movement sealing jutsu. I repeat it for you again they can pierce tailed beasts and bind tailed beasts  why can't they do the same with the 10 tails? It's body parts can be cut off as well, so I'm not sure where you're coming from

They can't because I say so isn't really an argument. The Jyubi's body is about as strong or lesser than those tails. The 10 tails wrapped itself in those arms to protect it's body from it's own Jyubi dama, so it's not really an argument.




Sleepless said:


> My point is, Hashirama is using hax sealing. He isn't using something like rods to pierce most of it's body and seal it's movement. Madara resists sealing in general that is the only reason he can break out of it.



You're ignoring facts. 

Hashi's sealing jutsu works by removing the will to fight, Jyubi had will to fight. Therefore, it was Hashi power restraining it, not some had sealing jutsu.

Madara doesn't resist in general, he resista because his will is stronger. 

I'll ask you a better question, is Rinnegan Sasken who can tango with JJs stronger or the Jyubi?


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> That is why I am saying he is using this to sustain his vessel more than anything. Jigen's power comes from Isshiki, that is made extremely obvious, he's just using this battery because his vessel is getting weaker and weaker. These seedlings are literal fodder being thrown around to create God Trees and eat fruits, that is what Momoshiki has been doing over and over.



Yet Momoshiki Was calling Piece of a Ten tails powers enormous and Massive.


This was said in both anime and Manga. 

The author is conveying to use that 9 tails powers alone is massive according to Momoshiki.

Ten tails chakra is beyond the combined powers of 9 tails+all the other Tailed Beast. 

Seems pretty self-explanatory


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

Naruto and Sasuke have not lost their Six Paths Senjutsu at all. Naruto uses his Six Paths Senjutsu through his Kurama Modes. Losing the seal is not evidence they have lost Six Paths Senjutsu, Naruto even uses TSOs even after losing the seal. You *need* Six Path Senjutsu to use TSO in any shape or form. Naruto's Six Paths Sage Mode still has all the patterns that indicate he has the mode. It's even established in novels he still has Six Paths Senjutsu. So the seal is not indicative of losing it at all. Naruto and Sasuke still have their cross-dimensional sensing abilities they needed against Limbo. A loss a sealing and a couple ying-yang release doesn't mean anything here.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Yet Momoshiki Was calling Piece of a Ten tails powers enormous and Massive


I've already addressed this like 10 times.


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

dergeist said:


> No proof they can't, and the rods allow a movement sealing jutsu. I repeat it for you again they can pierce tailed beasts and bind tailed beasts why can't they do the same with the 10 tails? It's body parts can be cut off as well, so I'm not sure where you're coming from
> 
> They can't because I say so isn't really an argument. The Jyubi's body is about as strong or lesser than those tails. The 10 tails wrapped itself in those arms to protect it's body from it's own Jyubi dama, so it's not really an argument.


You need proof they can. 10 tails>Bijuu. They can't because there is no evidence, not because I don't think so. 


dergeist said:


> You're ignoring facts.
> 
> Hashi's sealing jutsu works by removing the will to fight, Jyubi had will to fight. Therefore, it was Hashi power restraining it, not some had sealing jutsu.
> 
> ...


No the entire jutsu is a sealing jutsu, loss of willpower is simply one component of it.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> I've already addressed this like 10 times.


No, You didn't you said Momoshiki was talking about 9 tails+Six paths Naruto chakra...which was head canon Because It stated Momoshiki was chasing after Bijuu within Naruto not Naruto's chakra. 


Again my point is proven.


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## dergeist (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> You need proof they can. 10 tails>Bijuu. They can't because there is no evidence, not because I don't think so.



My proof is they're chakra is stronger than Kurama cloak chakra. And they've already shown ability to pierce and control. Now you show they can't?



Sleepless said:


> No the entire jutsu is a sealing jutsu, loss of willpower is simply one component of it.



That's reach, if one part doesn't work then how can you argue the other part works?


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## Sleepless (Jun 21, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> No, You didn't you said Momoshiki was talking about 9 tails+Six paths Naruto chakra...which was head canon Because It stated Momoshiki was chasing after Bijuu within Naruto not Naruto's chakra.


Yes because factually that is what is within Naruto + you haven't established any timeframe.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Yes because factually that is what is within Naruto + you haven't established any timeframe.



I did, When Momoshiki took Naruto it was Morning, and by the time They was ready to go get Naruto it was Night. 

Regardless of what you think the point is the Full 9 Tails chakra isn't anywhere near as powerful as a Ten tails that has been established. 


The Base SPSM is stated to also be above full Kurama. 


Let just say for Argument sake Momoshiki can See Limbo...explain how is he going to even touch it when He doesn't have Six paths Senjutsu?  The thing is it not like Momoshiki has knowledge on this ability, Sasuke was able to Dog him with his own ability and he saw that Ability at least once. 

Momoshiki also stated Killer bee has tremendous amounts of Chakra as well.  How is he going to win Against The Full Juubi when Just pieces of the Juubi Chakra seem be far too much for Even Momoshiki to absorb as he said it was taking too long. 

you Don't have any Argument for Momoshiki being able to even harm Limbo

You don't have a counter Argument For Momoshiki stating Pieces of the Juubi Chakra has tremendous amounts of chakra

You don't have any Arguments for How and Why Kages could fight and react to Momoshiki beside saying Kages stronger now. 

If reacting to God level attack=Stronger to you then Even 3rd Hokage would be able to React to Momoshiki since He was able to React to Juubi Obito. I guess that also implies War arc 3rd Hokage>Alive 3rd Hokage even those it stated Edo Tensei Hokage are weaker than their alive counter parts.


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## Sleepless (Jun 22, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> I did, When Momoshiki took Naruto it was Morning, and by the time They was ready to go get Naruto it was Night.



It wasn't night time at all.



MYGod000 said:


> Regardless of what you think the point is the Full 9 Tails chakra isn't anywhere near as powerful as a Ten tails that has been established.


Naruto with Sage of the Six Path Chakra + 100% Kurama is on par with a Ten Tail Jinchuriki. The Ten Tails Jinchuriki is more powerful than the Ten Tails on it's lonesome. I've said this already. The Ten Tails is more powerful than the other Bijuu even when they are combined but individual but Naruto and Kurama together with the power Hagoromo gave to Naruto is more than a match.


MYGod000 said:


> The Base SPSM is stated to also be above full Kurama.


Doesn't really matter.


MYGod000 said:


> Let just say for Argument sake Momoshiki can See Limbo...explain how is he going to even touch it when He doesn't have Six paths Senjutsu? The thing is it not like Momoshiki has knowledge on this ability, Sasuke was able to Dog him with his own ability and he saw that Ability at least once.


Limbo is on par with Madara's own statistics, which Momoshiki is above. Therefore Momoshiki won't take much damage from it. If he can't interact with it, he can just continue to dodge it and go after Madara.


MYGod000 said:


> Momoshiki also stated Killer bee has tremendous amounts of Chakra as well. How is he going to win Against The Full Juubi when Just pieces of the Juubi Chakra seem be far too much for Even Momoshiki to absorb as he said it was taking too long.


Wrong, Momoshiki never stated that, he was actually disappointed in how weak Hachibi and Killer Bee were and how little chakra they provided him.




MYGod000 said:


> you Don't have any Argument for Momoshiki being able to even harm Limbo


I don't really think it matter whether or not he can hit Limbo.


MYGod000 said:


> You don't have a counter Argument For Momoshiki stating Pieces of the Juubi Chakra has tremendous amounts of chakra


He never stated that. He stated the chakra that he was absorbing from Naruto was tremendous. But I've already said, Naruto doesn't just have full Kurama inside him, he also has Six Paths powers and parts of the other Bijuu.


MYGod000 said:


> If reacting to God level attack=Stronger to you then Even 3rd Hokage would be able to React to Momoshiki since He was able to React to Juubi Obito. I guess that also implies War arc 3rd Hokage>Alive 3rd Hokage even those it stated Edo Tensei Hokage are weaker than their alive counter parts.


What are you talking about here and why is it relevant.


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## Sage King (Jun 22, 2021)

Again its a mismatch. Juubidara slaughters.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

Sage King said:


> Again its a mismatch. Juubidara slaughters Momoshiki like he did Kaguya


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## Bob74h (Jun 22, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> It proves my point that Jigen power came from Absorbing chakra from the Ten tails.


Kaguya = juubi
So jigen needed power from kaguya to even beat sasuke yet were arguing that kaguya somehow loses really goes to show how dishonest these buirito boys often are


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## Sleepless (Jun 22, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> Kaguya = juubi
> So jigen needed power from kaguya to even beat sasuke yet were arguing that kaguya somehow loses really goes to show how dishonest these buirito boys often are


Juubi was from another world so it wasn't Kaguya, read the manga.

I've already debunked this implicit argument. Prove he 'needed' this as if this chakra was a boost from fodder to Naruto/Sasuke level. It's well established he was already way stronger beforehand.


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## Bob74h (Jun 22, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Juubi was from another world so it wasn't Kaguya, read the manga.


black zetsu states kaguya = juubi and that's just the facts if you do not like that then maybe your the one with the problem not me

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Lewd 1 | Dislike 1


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## Sleepless (Jun 22, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> black zetsu states kaguya = juubi and that's just the facts if you do not like that then maybe your the one with the problem not me


Bro if you haven't read Boruto just say you haven't read it

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Impulse (Jun 22, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> black zetsu states kaguya = juubi.


It stated that Otsutsuki use Juubi when they go to a planet there are multiple Juubi that exist



Amado just said it different to the one they fought in the war


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## Altiora Night (Jun 22, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 5


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## Bob74h (Jun 22, 2021)

Impulse785 said:


> It stated that Otsutsuki use Juubi when they go to a planet there are multiple Juubi that exist


Kishimoto's manga > kodachi's manga sorry not sorry

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Altiora Night (Jun 22, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 2


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## Bob74h (Jun 22, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Bro if you haven't read Boruto just say you haven't read it


I dont read trash, I keep it where it belongs in the garbage

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Sparks (Jun 22, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> Kishimoto's manga > kodachi's manga sorry not sorry


Not all canons are equal then.

Interesting, very interesting...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sleepless (Jun 22, 2021)

I'm done

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Impulse (Jun 22, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> Kishimoto's manga > kodachi's manga sorry not sorry


Boruto manga is it not canon?


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## Bob74h (Jun 22, 2021)

Sparks said:


> Not all canons are equal then.


My premise on canon was that it's subjective not that one has more worth then another plus that was more me using the coomunity's own logic against him if anything, He's going to twist that around though as these people are so inconsistent with their own arguments


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## Sparks (Jun 22, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> My premise on canon was that it's subjective not that one has more worth then another plus that was more me using the coomunity's own logic against him if anything, He's going to twist that around though as these people are so inconsistent with their own arguments


I declare this art of Double Rinnegan TonTon canon because canon is subjective.


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## Bob74h (Jun 22, 2021)

Impulse785 said:


> Boruto manga is it not canon?


You and i both know, I think canon as a idea does not exist as a idea in boruto that was more of a gotcha moment if anything else with me using your own logic against you.
I would say everything counts for the most part but im not repeating my premise on canon as that has been explained far better in other threads


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## Sleepless (Jun 22, 2021)

Stop rambling you're acting like Zetsu's statements and Amado's statements conflict which they don't even

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Bob74h (Jun 22, 2021)

Sparks said:


> I declare this art of Double Rinnegan TonTon canon because canon is subjective.


It being subjective, Does not mean literal fanfic like my condition for it being counted has always been that it had to be an official licensed work.


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## Bob74h (Jun 22, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Stop rambling you're acting like Zetsu's statements and Amado's statements conflict which they don't even


It does though like black zetsu states that kaguya is the juubi itself in that scan yet amando claims otherwise how would that not be contradictory

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Impulse (Jun 22, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> It does though like black zetsu states that kaguya is the juubi itself in that scan yet amando claims otherwise how would that not be contradictory


Because they are two different Juubi that exist 

Kaguya is the Juubi that was originally on earth not any other Juubi that exist


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## Sparks (Jun 22, 2021)

Sparks said:


> I declare this art of Double Rinnegan TonTon canon because canon is subjective.





Bob74h said:


> It does though like black zetsu states that kaguya is the juubi itself in that scan yet amando claims otherwise how would that not be contradictory

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Bob74h (Jun 22, 2021)

Impulse785 said:


> Because they are two different Juubi that exist


I get that's what boruto stated im just stating it's contradictory because it quite literally would be like if x thing says a and y thing says then b then it's not consistent with another as they are not leading to the same conclusion

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Yagami1211 (Jun 22, 2021)

Marada awoken Rinnegan just before he died. Nagato has more experience than him.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Fused (Jun 22, 2021)

Yagami1211 said:


> Marada awoken Rinnegan just before je died. Nagato has more experience than him.


Nothing more than headcanon, it is never said that Nagato was more experienced with the Rinnegan than Madara, literally the one who awakened it.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Goku (Jun 22, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> It does though like black zetsu states that kaguya is the juubi itself in that scan yet amando claims otherwise how would that not be contradictory


Every Otsutsuki can create their own Ten Tails, which grows into the Divine Tree. Kaguya merely merged with her own Divine Tree.


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## Sleepless (Jun 22, 2021)

Vegito said:


> Every Otsutsuki can create their own Ten Tails, which grows into the Divine Tree. Kaguya merely merged with her own Divine Tree.


Ten Tails Seedlings are used by Otsutsuki to create a God Tree which ripens into a Chakra Fruit, they then eat that fruit and move onto the next planet. They travel in pairs so that one Otsutsuki, the inferior of the two, is eaten by the seedling and this is what causes the God Tree to grow according to Boruto.

Now a problem arises, how was the God Tree on Earth produced if Isshiki was put out of commision by Kaguya and never actually died or was eaten but Kaguya wasn't eaten either.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 22, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> It wasn't night time at all.
> 
> 
> Naruto with Sage of the Six Path Chakra + 100% Kurama is on par with a Ten Tail Jinchuriki. The Ten Tails Jinchuriki is more powerful than the Ten Tails on it's lonesome. I've said this already. The Ten Tails is more powerful than the other Bijuu even when they are combined but individual but Naruto and Kurama together with the power Hagoromo gave to Naruto is more than a match.
> ...


In the manga it hard to tell from night and Day unless specifically stated. However in the anime it clearly Night time when Go to rescue Naruto.





in the Manga he doesn't...but in the anime he does.

Your argument Is irrelevant because Naruto was in Base form, his Base form isn't above Kurama.  No he isn't, Ten tails Juubi Jin are capable of Destroying the planet as Obito stated he was going to do, Naruto was only given half of Hagoromo's chakra.

As the manga Shows the ten tails is more powerful than Both Prime pre JJ Hagoromo+Prime Hamura.

Naruto's powers from when Hagoromo was no longer the Juubi Jin and split in half at that giving him 50% of Pre-JJ Hagoromo chakra.

Madara has both the ten tails, and Holy Tree which is much more powerful than the Ten tails and final form of the Ten tails.

Hagoromo was born from the ten tails chakra+Kaguya's direct chakra, and was older than Naruto with more chakra than Naruto and was still had less chakra than the Ten tails...How would Naruto who is weaker than Hagoromo be on par with a Juubi Jin, when Hagoromo, Kaguya, and Hamura back then had all the chakra and Hagoromo and Hamura was still weaker than a Juubi?

If Naruto Base form was as powerful as your giving it credit for he would have easily been able to take down Shin in just Base form, without the need of going into higher forms.  Since people love to act like Naruto and Boruto is DBZ.


How is acknowledging  Momoshiki has no way of Defending or Harming Limbo not matter in this debate when we are saying Momoshiki get tagged and one shot by Limbo? Momoshiki dies in a curbstomp  pretty easily against Madara.


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## Sleepless (Jun 22, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> In the manga it hard to tell from night and Day unless specifically stated. However in the anime it clearly Night time when Go to rescue Naruto.


Proof? It was cloudy not night time.


MYGod000 said:


> in the Manga he doesn't...but in the anime he does.


Ok, even if he says it in the anime, it doesn't mean much, after he turns Hachibi into pills he still says the same thing even in the anime. He's disappointed at how little pills he gets.


MYGod000 said:


> Your argument Is irrelevant because Naruto was in Base form


No, it's still relevant because Naruto's chakra is within him regardless of which form he's using, him using a form is just him using that chakra within him.


MYGod000 said:


> No he isn't, Ten tails Juubi Jin are capable of Destroying the planet as Obito stated he was going to do, Naruto was only given half of Hagoromo's chakra.


Ok? Naruto and Sasuke's power after getting Hagoromo's chakra is amplified to the point they are able to contend with a stronger Juubi Jinchuriki, Madara, able to cut him open and bruise him. Without his immortality he would've died long before he was able to get another rinnegan.


MYGod000 said:


> As the manga Shows the ten tails is more powerful than Both Prime Hagoromo+Prime Hamura.


Prime Hagoromo is after he becomes the Ten Tails Jinchuriki. The Ten Tails was never in it's entirety within Obito or Madara, Madara still didn't have 50% of Kurama and some vestiges of Shukaku and Bee that Obito took + portions of all the other Bijuu which are inside Naruto, so the Ten Tails Hagoromo fought was more powerful than the one Madara has within him. Also we know that it was Prime Kaguya who merged with the God Tree in the first place to become the Ten Tails all so she could take the chakra back from Hagoromo. All this proves the initial Ten Tails was much more powerful. We know Jinchuriki Madara was still weaker than Hagoromo and Kaguya and was only approaching their power, he never actually attained their power.

This entire argument becomes irrelevant very quickly because I'm not going to skip around the fact Naruto and Sasuke each with half of Hagoromo's power could contend with Juubi Madara already and Naruto goes onto to contend with an even stronger Kaguya. So even if you wanted to say Madara is stronger than the Ten Tails Hagoromo fought, which is obviously idiotic, Hagoromo can just have gotten stronger overtime enough to surpass the Ten Tails he fought and enough to grant power to contend with the Ten Tails Jinchuriki.


MYGod000 said:


> If Naruto Base form was as powerful as your giving it credit for he would have easily been able to take down Shin in just Base form, without the need of going into higher forms. Since people love to act like Naruto and Boruto is DBZ.


This Base thing has been debunked.


MYGod000 said:


> How is acknowledging Momoshiki has no way of Defending or Harming Limbo not matter in this debate when we are saying Momoshiki get tagged and one shot by Limbo? Momoshiki dies in a curbstomp pretty easily against Madara.


He can see Limbo and will simply dodge it if he can't touch it. Why on earth would he get one-shot when Madara statistically, in terms of raw strength, is weaker. Momoshiki will just fly away from the Limbo and straight to Madara, Limbo cannot stay out forever, after a while it goes back into Madara and he can't use it for a certain period.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 22, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Proof? It was cloudy not night time.
> 
> Ok, even if he says it in the anime, it doesn't mean much, after he turns Hachibi into pills he still says the same thing even in the anime. He's disappointed at how little pills he gets.


He was disappointed by how little pills he got from it not by Hachibi chakra.

Momoshiki already Stated he sensed tremendous chakra when he was talking to Kishishiki and Urashiki.

The first person he attacked was 8 tails even those Urashiki Told him 8 tails and 9 tails are the strongest and has the most chakra.



Sleepless said:


> No, it's still relevant because Naruto's chakra is within him regardless of which form he's using, him using a form is just him using that chakra within him.



Your argument is nonsense here.  The point is he was in base and he wasn't as powerful as a Juubi.



Sleepless said:


> Ok? Naruto and Sasuke's power after getting Hagoromo's chakra is amplified to the point they are able to contend with a stronger Juubi Jinchuriki, Madara, able to cut him open and bruise him. Without his immortality he would've died long before he was able to get another rinnegan.



Naruto and Sasuke's power was amplified by the Seals which they no longer have now.


Sleepless said:


> Prime Hagoromo is after he becomes the Ten Tails Jinchuriki. The Ten Tails was never in it's entirety within Obito or Madara, Madara still didn't have 50% of Kurama and some vestiges of Shukaku and Bee that Obito took + portions of all the other Bijuu which are inside Naruto, so the Ten Tails Hagoromo fought was more powerful than the one Madara has within him. Also we know that it was Prime Kaguya who merged with the God Tree in the first place to become the Ten Tails all so she could take the chakra back from Hagoromo. All this proves the initial Ten Tails was much more powerful. We know Jinchuriki Madara was still weaker than Hagoromo and Kaguya and was only approaching their power, he never actually attained their power.



I'm talking about Hagoromo Before He was Juubi Jin was weaker than The Ten tails. Pre Juubi Jin Hagoromo is more powerful than Adult Naruto.

What does that Matter When The Ten tails is stated to be able to absorb Chakra from the planet to Reach his higher more powerful Stages?  What chakra he was missing is irrelevant at that point.  He can gain Back the chakra he is missing From kneeding chakra from the planet like he was doing otherwise he wouldn't have been able to reach God Tree Stage which is far more powerful than the Ten tails.


Sleepless said:


> This entire argument becomes irrelevant very quickly because I'm not going to skip around the fact Naruto and Sasuke each with half of Hagoromo's power could contend with Juubi Madara already and Naruto goes onto to contend with an even stronger Kaguya. So even if you wanted to say Madara is stronger than the Ten Tails Hagoromo fought, which is obviously idiotic, Hagoromo can just have gotten stronger overtime enough to surpass the Ten Tails he fought and enough to grant power to contend with the Ten Tails Jinchuriki.
> 
> This Base thing has been debunked.



who said they couldn't contend with a Juubi Jin?  the point was they couldn't beat him without help from the seals, which is exactly how Hagoromo Beat the Ten tails.  Even the Kages who are weak Could contend with Momoshiki...doesn't mean they were more powerful than him. What does that Matter? Hagoromo was no longer the Ten tails when he gave Naruto and Sasuke his chakra,  You are factually unable to Argue Naruto being on par with a Ten tails When The ten tails is more powerful than Hagoromo who wasn't able to surpass it until he became a Ten tails Juubi Jin himself.

Like I already said The Ten tails Can absorb Chakra from the planet to reach it higher forms what ever chakra it was missing is moot point.  Yes Madara was more powerful than the Ten tails Hagoromo Fought because he had the final Form of the Ten tails+Ten tails+Rinne-Sharingan Something Hagoromo never had.  And Madara can easily use his PS to contain the I.T chakra in which again Far surpasses Hagoromo.


Sleepless said:


> He can see Limbo and will simply dodge it if he can't touch it. Why on earth would he get one-shot when Madara statistically, in terms of raw strength, is weaker. Momoshiki will just fly away from the Limbo and straight to Madara, Limbo cannot stay out forever, after a while it goes back into Madara and he can't use it for a certain period.



How would he know he can't touch it unless he attempts to Attack it which the Limbo will counter Strike him.

Like I said This is assuming he can even see Limbo considering He was not able to See Boruto's attack which was invisible.

Limbo is invisible and Exist in a different Reality.


Reiterate, I never said Naruto and Sasuke couldn't Contend against Juubi Jin, I said Naruto isn't on par with Them because Hagoromo was weaker than The Ten tails...back when the chakra was split between 3 people.   So, it nonsense to assume Naruto has more chakra than The ten tails because of 50% non juubi jin Ghost Hagoromo gave them chakra.

Alive non Jj Hagoromo>>Ghost non Jj Hagoromo.

Alive pre JJ Hagoromo>>Naruto

For the record even Edo Madara has statements of being able to Weaken Juubi Obito, so even He can contend with Juubi jins but it doesn't mean he can win, just mean he can stand up to them and fight them Just like Naruto and Sasuke can do. 

What Stops Madara from just instantly turning Momoshiki into a CT Core like Sasuke did the Tailed Beast and Draining Momoshiki of his chakra?


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## Fused (Jun 22, 2021)

I don't know what this section is smoking for this thread to still be going on for 11 pages, regardless the opposition (i.e. trolls) have failed to address one little tiny superfluous detail:

*MOMOSHIKI CAN HURT MADARA ONLY WITH TAIJUTSU. BUT MADARA CAN JUST SHIELD HIMSELF WITH TRUTH SEEKER ORBS, WHICH MOMOSHIKI CANNOT TOUCH DUE TO NOT HAVING SENJUTSU.*

So many concessions are ready to be accepted now


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## Sleepless (Jun 22, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> He was disappointed by how little pills he got from it not by Hachibi chakra.
> 
> Momoshiki already Stated he sensed tremendous chakra when he was talking to Kishishiki and Urashiki.
> 
> ...


I'm done debating you, you are way too dishonest and you're wasting my time. You're lucky I don't just ignore you like I did that Fused smooth brain.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Zembie (Jun 22, 2021)

People are never going to agree on the Naruto/Boruto powerscaling, what's the point with these kinds of threads when there is no actual discussion to be had? Madara stans will say that Momoshiki is trash, Borutards will say that Madara is trash or whatever the fuck....

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fused (Jun 22, 2021)

"I'M dOnE dEbAtInG yOu, YoU aRe WaY tOo DiShOnEsT aNd YoU'Re WaStInG mY tImE. yOu'rE lUcKy I dOn't JuSt IgNoRe YoU lIkE i DiD tHaT fUsEd SmOoTh BrAiN."

Poor guy is salty that his favourite character isn't just a garbage plot device with 0 motivations and personality, but that he also doesn't come close to 2014 power levels

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

Madara isn't trash, he's just outclassed.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fused (Jun 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Madara isn't trash, he's just outclassed.


So Madara is the one who is out of his league, and not the fool who got outclassed by a Genin?

How are you going to sit there saying that Madara gets outclassed by someone who was outplayed by a Genin who needed cheats in a chunin exam

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Sleepless (Jun 22, 2021)

Fused said:


> "I'M dOnE dEbAtInG yOu, YoU aRe WaY tOo DiShOnEsT aNd YoU'Re WaStInG mY tImE. yOu'rE lUcKy I dOn't JuSt IgNoRe YoU lIkE i DiD tHaT fUsEd SmOoTh BrAiN."
> 
> Poor guy is salty that his favourite character isn't just a garbage plot device with 0 motivations and personality, but that he also doesn't come close to 2014 power levels


I don't care about Momoshiki as a character and like Madara more because he actually has characterisation. Although I don't have his balls deep in my throat.

Lol I'm not salty either, I just realized I was wasting my time and this debate is just useless ad naseum and distortions.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Disagree 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

Fused said:


> So Madara is the one who is out of his league, and not the fool who got outclassed by a Genin?
> 
> How are you going to sit there saying that Madara gets outclassed by someone who was outplayed by a Genin who needed cheats in a chunin exam



Because Madara got negged, to quote Bob74h.

Negged by Black Zetsu. Black Zetsu lost to a KCM clone and a weaker Chojuro, yet Adult Chojuro had a hard time beating Kinshiki even with Kurotsuchi and Sasuke.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## WhoFedAhri? (Jun 22, 2021)

Zembie said:


> People are never going to agree on the Naruto/Boruto powerscaling, what's the point with these kinds of threads when there is no actual discussion to be had? Madara stans will say that Momoshiki is trash, Borutards will say that Madara is trash or whatever the fuck....


These debates kinda remind me of OCD


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

Zembie said:


> People are never going to agree on the Naruto/Boruto powerscaling



That's the problem of those who are wrong about it


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## Fused (Jun 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Because Madara got negged, to quote Bob74h.
> 
> Negged by Black Zetsu. Black Zetsu lost to a KCM clone and a weaker Chojuro, yet Adult Chojuro had a hard time beating Kinshiki even with Kurotsuchi and Sasuke.


People need to stop spreading this "argument" around here because it is incredibly disingenuous.

Madara literally thought Black Zetsu was himself, or rather a physical manifestation of his own will. Why would you go against yourself?

Meanwhile Momoshiki literally knew Boruto was hostile and an enemy, and he still got outplayed.

Context matters, folks.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Altiora Night (Jun 22, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> Now a problem arises, how was the God Tree on Earth produced if Isshiki was put out of commision by Kaguya and never actually died or was eaten but Kaguya wasn't eaten either.


Perhaps she gave Karma to a human, and as the individual became mostly Ōtsutsuki biologically-speaking, she fed the person to Ten-Tails.

That, or Kaguya sacrificed herself to Ten-Tails, and then reincarnated herself in the body of someone bearing her Karma later on.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

Fused said:


> People need to stop spreading this "argument" around here because it is incredibly disingenuous



I will when you stop practicing double standards when it comes to Isshiki 

Also, Momo took Naruto, Sasuke, AND Boruto to beat, Boruto's Rasengan is like 90% fueled by Naruto alone and Sasuke helped with Ameno, besides if Boruto could beat him, he can help beat Madara.


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## Fused (Jun 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I will when you stop practicing double standards when it comes to Isshiki


When have I ever done that?


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Also, Momo took Naruto, Sasuke, AND Boruto to beat, Boruto's Rasengan is like 90% fueled by Naruto alone and Sasuke helped with Ameno, besides if Boruto could beat him, he can help beat Madara.


And Madara took on the ENTIRE WORLD and still emerged victorious. Team 7 could never defeat Madara. It took the literal Goddess of All Chakra in the cosmos to defeat him. Team 7 could never achieve that feat.

I won't even address your second argument because it is extremely foolish. Boruto wouldn't even be able to stand in the presence of Madara Uchiha. He would likely shake in fear and retreat at the mere sight of his Divine Rinnegan, like how Sakura was about to do.


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## xingi (Jun 22, 2021)

Zembie said:


> People are never going to agree on the Naruto/Boruto powerscaling, what's the point with these kinds of threads when there is no actual discussion to be had? Madara stans will say that Momoshiki is trash, Borutards will say that Madara is trash or whatever the fuck....


Isn't this like 90% of the threads in this section?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MYGod000 (Jun 22, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> I'm done debating you, you are way too dishonest and you're wasting my time. You're lucky I don't just ignore you like I did that Fused smooth brain.


Now Because you can't refute what I said I'm Dishonest?



You're Free to do whatever you like, I proved to you Naruto isn't even more powerful than Hagoromo Even before He absorbed the Juubi's powers.

I also told you The ten tails Can Absorb and charge his chakra from the planet to reach his higher forms; Which isn't possible without All of his chakra.



The only Different Reviving Ten tails with Less of it's chakra has is how long it takes for him to reach Maturity into it's final form.



When Hagoromo fought the prime Juubi  it started out in that form

Which is the Same form Madara revived the juubi in after taking more of it chakra compared to what Obito did who Rushed it and had to wait until it matured past it first form.



Hagoromo admitted he feared the Juubi because it took him and his brothers combined strength to defeat it and they needed to seal it.



They both needed to use Six path CT to defeat the Juubi, which is exactly what Naruto and Sasuke was going to use to defeat Madara.

Like I said if you able to stop crying  and actually use your common sense you see that It physically not possible for Naruto who has even less Chakra than Hagoromo  to Match a Juubi in chakra.  They can contend with Juubi Like Hagoromo and Hamura did but they are not on par with them when it comes to chakra. Naruto's only chance of surpassing a Juubi is To absorb the Juubi like Hagoromo and Madara did. 

If you want to block me because I told you the truth...fine i Don't care you can do whatever you want but don't ever talk about maturity to me Because you can't even handle someone having a different point of view then you have on things.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## MYGod000 (Jun 22, 2021)

Fused said:


> So Madara is the one who is out of his league, and not the fool who got outclassed by a Genin?
> 
> How are you going to sit there saying that Madara gets outclassed by someone who was outplayed by a Genin who needed cheats in a chunin exam



Cheats Momoshiki Practically went after the Next strongest  Bijuu first Waited...for that person to lunch Attacks at him before he even thought about Confronting Naruto. He needed insurance just in case he got his butt kicked he can drop a nuke.

The funny thing is Naruto like to play around to much Just like he did with Blind Toneri...He could have stomped him at any point but he wanted to mess around which got his Shit blown out his chest. Naruto could have smacked Momoshiki during those Chunin exams but he let Momoshiki get the upperhand by bring out his nuke. 

Madara turns Momoshiki into a CT Core which
Madara is going to him like  a Battery.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

xingi said:


> Isn't this like 90% of the threads in this section?



There are people still arguing SM Jiraiya > SM Naruto.


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## Sleepless (Jun 22, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> If you want to block me because I told you the truth...fine i Don't care you can do whatever you want but don't ever talk about maturity to me Because you can't even handle someone having a different point of view then you have on things.


It's dishonesty like making baseless claims that the Juubi itself is stronger than Hagoromo and not answering my steelman points. I already told you, even if you want to argue Hagoromo before his prime was weaker than the Ten Tails, he can just have gotten stronger overtime and then granted that new power after his prime to Naruto and Sasuke. Which is why Naruto and Sasuke are able to combat someone more powerful than Obito, Madara, who is already more powerful than the Juubi.

Regardless of your argument, it is undeniable that Naruto with the new power Hagoromo gave him was able to contend with Madara, this is literally undeniable. If you concede to this point, you concede to Hagoromo being stronger than the Juubi from the War and it supports my argument about the Full Juubi being much stronger than the one from the War. Also you ignored the Prime Juubi was Kaguya who had merged with the God Tree. Therefore the scaling goes like this in terms of raw power -

Kaguya>Madara ~ Naruto>Sasuke>Obito>Juubi.

Naruto can get stronger with amplifications and is likely just stronger than Madara in terms of raw power. Being able to harm Kaguya who is massively stronger.

Immortality is just Madara's ability to survive, it doesn't mean he hits massively harded than Naruto or can take more in terms of durability.

Your entire argument about the Juubi not needing it's other parts because it was 'progressively getting stronger' is literally headcanon. The entire segment with the God Tree. the God Tree is literally the Ten Tails. 

Other dishonest arguments being Naruto and Sasuke lost power with the seal, which has no actual proof. We see that in the Naruto vs Sasuke fight afterwards.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 22, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> It's dishonesty like making baseless claims that the Juubi itself is stronger than Hagoromo and not answering my steelman points. I already told you, even if you want to argue Hagoromo before his prime was weaker than the Ten Tails, he can just have gotten stronger overtime and then granted that new power after his prime to Naruto and Sasuke. Which is why Naruto and Sasuke are able to combat someone more powerful than Obito, Madara, who is already more powerful than the Juubi.
> 
> Regardless of your argument, it is undeniable that Naruto with the new power Hagoromo gave him was able to contend with Madara, this is literally undeniable. If you concede to this point, you concede to Hagoromo being stronger than the Juubi from the War and it supports my argument about the Full Juubi being much stronger than the one from the War. Also you ignored the Prime Juubi was Kaguya who had merged with the God Tree. Therefore the scaling goes like this in terms of raw power -
> 
> ...



The Claim wasn't baseless, it was back up by the Fact Hagoromo needed his brother to defeat the Ten tails. 

It back up even more the the fact that Hagoromo Feared the immeasurable power of the ten tails. 

I never denied Naruto with Ghost Hagoromo's power being able to contented with Madara. What I denied was you claiming Naruto was on par with Madara when he had a whole Ten tails.  Learn the difference. 

Like I said Even Edo Madara can contend with a Juubi jin but doesn't mean he was on par with him like you where previously trying to argue and brush under the rug.


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## Sleepless (Jun 22, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> The Claim wasn't baseless, it was back up by the Fact Hagoromo needed his brother to defeat the Ten tails.
> 
> It back up even more the the fact that Hagoromo Feared the immeasurable power of the ten tails.
> 
> ...


You keep forgetting, this Juubi is Prime Kaguya merged with the God Tree, not the War Arc Juubi in which Kaguya is dormant and need massive amounts of chakra on top of Madara to appear, also it is the full Juubi with every vestige of it's chakra. The argument you made when you said with the 'absorbing nature so it doesn't need those vestiges' is not backed by any evidence. Also you forget my steelman argument.

Where is that scan even from, the filler anime?

'on par' or 'contend' it doesn't matter. Him being able to damage or slice up a Madara who has more power than the WA Juubi is why I scale him above the Juubi.

Edo Madara wanted to get Hashirama's chakra and basically beat up Juubito. Which he may have been able to do with his Edo EMS+Rinnegan and Hashirama's Sage Mode amp. That is an arguable topic which most people think Juubito would still slap. Either way that is a more ambiguous debate where Edo Madara didn't have those showing whereas Naruto and Sasuke did.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

Tbh a SM amped Edo Rinnegan Madara (himself already ~ Edo Hashirama) could pound Juubito.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 22, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> You keep forgetting, this Juubi is Prime Kaguya merged with the God Tree, not the War Arc Juubi in which Kaguya is dormant and need massive amounts of chakra on top of Madara to appear, also it is the full Juubi with every vestige of it's chakra. The argument you made when you said with the 'absorbing nature so it doesn't need those vestiges' is not backed by any evidence/
> 
> Where is that scan even from, the filler anime?
> 
> ...



Again what power it had back then is irrelevant Because At the end of the Day The Juubi can Absorb chakra from the planet to get back to what it was back then as well. 


The scan is from Naruto the Last Movie. 

It does matter, Because you argued Naruto  with Six paths chakra+Kurama's chakra equals Juubi Jin. 

Because We saw Naruto clones which are comparable to Naruto get beat by Madara's Limbo clones. 

Kaguya is every one chakra on earth+Ten tails+God Tree. 

Kaguya was in a weaker form when she is in her Ten tails form. 

Sasuke even said It much easier to seal her while she was in her bijuu form.


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## WorldsStrongest (Jun 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Tbh a SM amped Edo Rinnegan Madara (himself already ~ Edo Hashirama) could pound Juubito.


No

No he could not


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

WorldsStrongest said:


> No
> 
> No he could not



We can debate it.

I think he can


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## Sleepless (Jun 22, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Again what power it had back then is irrelevant Because At the end of the Day The Juubi can Absorb chakra from the planet to get back to what it was back then as well.
> 
> 
> The scan is from Naruto the Last Movie.
> ...


This is the argument I was calling headcanon. Who said he can make up for those lost power? This is a leap and you are making an assumption. Especially a lost power like Prime Kaguya + The Godtree.

Ok, he can fear the Juubi. Maybe the Juubi he fought, it doesn't specify. The Juubi he fought is literally Prime Kaguya anyway.

No it doesn't, as I said, the entire reason why I said Naruto is beyond the Juubi by itself (WA) is because he has the power to serverly harm Madara. Madara who is more powerful than Obito who is more powerful than the sole Juubi. Being caught up in 'on par' or 'contends' is just semantics as I have explained what I meant.

Why is she weaker? She merges with the God Tree.

The reason why sealing is easier is because the target is larger, but that doesn't speak for raw power.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 22, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> This is the argument I was calling headcanon. Who said he can make up for those lost power? This is a leap and you are making an assumption. Especially a lost power like Prime Kaguya + The Godtree.
> 
> Ok, he can fear the Juubi. Maybe the Juubi he fought, it doesn't specify. The Juubi he fought is literally Prime Kaguya anyway.
> 
> ...


Because he is absorbing chakra from the planet.

Which is stated The ten tails can do, the same Planet pretty much every OTsutsuki is trying to drain and died trying to do so.


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## WorldsStrongest (Jun 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> We can debate it.


No we cant

Rinne SM Madara literally states the 9 unfused Biju are his limit in battle

The wild Juubi is directly stated >>> the sum of its parts in the manga and the DB

Juubito even in his berserk state is noted >>> the wild Juubi

Then theres the massive disparity in feats, the fact Edo Madara already admitted Juubito can oneshot kill him through his PS etc

Meanwhile the only "positive" evidence for Madara in this matchup is that he literally thanked Naruto for TnJing Obito and then pulling the Biju out of him with the help of the entire ASF including multiple Madara tier names like Minato and Sasuke...Literally says thanks for doing that for me...0 concrete implication he could have done that solo.

Youre entitled to your opinion here, but its an objectively wrong one 

Massive preponderance of evidence for even a PIS nerfed Obito stomping Madaras nutsack, literally one out of context statement indicating otherwise.

A difference of opinion here is sincerely not worth my patience to debate 

So no

Not taking you up on this

Imo it is insanely obvious that even PIS Obito claps Rinne SM Madara and with no PIS would legit solo everyone in RInne SM Madaras tier at the same time...And this is also a very commonly held belief. And also IMO, if someone cant realize AT LEAST the former, then theres no point in talking about it. We clearly see shit way too differently to go anywhere.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

This fight deserves its own thread, for now we need to educate the Juudara fans.


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## WorldsStrongest (Jun 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> This fight deserves its own thread,


Hard disagree

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## MYGod000 (Jun 22, 2021)

I don't see how EMS Sasuke is Rinne SM Madara tier when that Madara humiliated him then Complimented him all in the same panel.  It's fool to say EMS Sasuke is Rinne SM Madara Tier, But Not nearly as bad as Saying EMS Sasuke is equal to BSM Naruto.


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## WorldsStrongest (Jun 22, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> I don't see how EMS Sasuke is Rinne SM Madara tier


Because Sasuke slaughters everyone in the tier below Rinne SM Madara but gets slaughtered by everyone in the tier above Rinne SM Madara

They are both Founders tier fighters

Its really not hard to grasp

Madara is just at the very top, and Sasuke the very bottom 


MYGod000 said:


> It's fool to say EMS Sasuke is Rinne SM Madara Tie


Nope

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MYGod000 (Jun 22, 2021)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Because Sasuke slaughters everyone in the tier below Rinne SM Madara but gets slaughtered by everyone in the tier above Rinne SM Madara
> 
> They are both Founders tier fighters
> 
> ...



Slaughters? Yeah Let him fight Nagato First before we put him in these type of tiers.


WorldsStrongest said:


> Nope


It is because Madara blind was humiliating EMS Sasuke. As soon as Madara got just one eye He crucified Sasuke.



Blind SM Madara is weaker than EMS Madara, only once Madara gained That first Rinnegan he was stated to have surpassed His EMS self.

I understand what you're saying but I disagree, just like I disagree with You saying Ten tails Obito could have Soloed The ASF When You have Gai on that Same Team ready and willing to Sacrifice himself for the cause.

Gai wouldn't be able to kill him because Obito still had that God tree in him making him immune to death, but Gai, Edo Madara, HAshirama, BSM Naruto, EMS Sasuke All the other Top tier Shinobi At the same time?  No sorry Before i would have said yes, but now... It only takes one person to have that one ability to change the whole game Gai had 8th gate ready.


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## WorldsStrongest (Jun 22, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Slaughters? Yeah Let him fight Nagato


He can literally blitz diff Nagato with Susanoo even before he awakens to PS levels per feats

Read the fucking manga dude Nagato has no feats or scaling REMOTELY near Juubito levels who Sasuke can react to, hit and OUTPACE with his Susanoo

Not wasting my time on garbage opinions like this trying to pass as a "rebuttal"


MYGod000 said:


> It is because Madara blind was humiliating EMS Sasuke


A PIS gimped EMS Sasuke

Who conveniently forgot he had fucking PS levels of Susanoo

Which would have ragdolled Blind Madara no diff...or youre on all of the drugs


MYGod000 said:


> only once Madara gained That first Rinnegan he was stated to have surpassed His EMS self.


Which is literally irrelevant to Sasuke scaling to Founders tier

Already said its very clear Rinne SM is head and shoulders above Sasuke within the tier

Pimping Madara higher in Founders tier does literally nothing against my argument nor for yours

I VERBATIM said I have Rinne SM as the STRONGEST within that tier

He literally cannot be ranked any higher in this debate

What are you even doing with this rant?


MYGod000 said:


> I understand what you're saying but I disagree


Cool but youre wrong

Sasuke doesnt belong in the tier below founders tier when even prior to getting to his peak EMS development he was fucking with Juubito, shown peer to BM Naruto and Minato, and has feats that allow his attacks to literally blitz Nagato who is the single strongest dude BELOW Founders level

You legit cannot justify Sasuke being in Nagatos tier

Their feats are eons apart by the end of his EMS development


MYGod000 said:


> just like I disagree with You saying Ten tails Obito could have Soloed The ASF When You have Gai on that Same Team ready and willing to Sacrifice himself for the cause.


1. This is a really stupid non sequitur on your part
2. I never said he could solo the entire ASF

I said he could solo JUST Founders tier

Which doesnt have 8G Gai in it


MYGod000 said:


> Edo Madara, HAshirama, BSM Naruto, EMS Sasuke


All literally die to Barrier/Quad dama combo no diff

If they dont have a PREPPED Minato who ALSO has prepped WITH Naruto so they can all be transported at once?

They cannot counter even just this one combo

Thats how outmatched they are


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## MYGod000 (Jun 23, 2021)

WorldsStrongest said:


> He can literally blitz diff Nagato with Susanoo even before he awakens to PS levels per feats
> 
> Read the fucking manga dude Nagato has no feats or scaling REMOTELY near Juubito levels who Sasuke can react to, hit and OUTPACE with his Susanoo
> 
> ...



Hey i'm not here to argue i'm just reminding you who is all out there.

For the Record Nagato can null all of Sasuke's offensive Jutsu. BT+Soul rip=Dead sasuke.  Killer bee thought the same thing and he was put in the same Situation as Naruto when Nagato got him. Sasuke PS is basically him manifesting his chakra no different then Naruto using Kurama which can be absorbed. 

What makes you think Gai wouldn't activate 8th Gate if you're assuming this a non-PIS Ten tails Obito?  Gai was about to use 8th Gate no hesitation when It was Base Rinnegan Obito+5 Bijuu pointed at him.

again, I'm  not saying Gai would kill him i'm just saying the moment Gai activates 8th Gate everything is all out the window, At that point it could go either way and it only takes one hax individual to Hit Obito while he is distracted Fighting Gai. 

There is PIS Riddled all in Naruto series, the fact still remains that Blind Madara trolled Sasuke with a smile on his face then complimented Sasuke and told him to join him if you want to live.  Basically like that.

Obito would have the Overwhelming advantage in Chakra...but You don't seem to full understand how hax some individually in naruto are.


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## Fused (Jun 23, 2021)

Rinne Rebirth Madara and EMS Sasuke in the same tier when this happened:



You smoking something?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bob74h (Jun 23, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Negged by Black Zetsu. Black Zetsu lost to a KCM clone and a weaker Chojuro, yet Adult Chojuro had a hard time beating Kinshiki even with Kurotsuchi and Sasuke.


When did i ever say that?


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## Bob74h (Jun 23, 2021)

Sleepless said:


> I'm done debating you, you are way too dishonest and you're wasting my time. You're lucky I don't just ignore you like I did that Fused smooth brain.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MYGod000 (Jun 23, 2021)

People Talking about black Zetsu negging Madara...but honestly I see no reason why Black Zetsu wouldn't be able to Negg and Control Momoshiki.  Zetsu may not be physical Strong but his ability to Control People is.


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## Fused (Jun 23, 2021)

People talking about Black Zetsu stabbing Madara when it wasn't him who did that, but DMS Obito.

I've given up on this section, even the most basic story facts (like that Black Zetsu used Obito's body to stab Madara) are completely ignored.


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## Zembie (Jun 23, 2021)

xingi said:


> Isn't this like 90% of the threads in this section?


Not really, even if people don't agree on something they can at least admit when a good point is brought up, this shit tho? Fuck no. It's constant bickering between Boruto vs Naruto characters.


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## MYGod000 (Jun 23, 2021)

Fused said:


> Rinne Rebirth Madara and EMS Sasuke in the same tier when this happened:
> 
> 
> 
> You smoking something?



Yeah I hear you and I am huge Sasuke Fan, It sad because Worldstrongest is actually very intelligent, unless he is debating Madara then His IQ usually drops by 125 points.   I won't ever call him an "Idiot" or anything but when it comes to Madara he just doesn't show the same Type of Intellect as he do with other characters.  Sasuke needs to prove him self at least against Nagato before he can be moved in Madara tier...he said Sasuke would blitz him Well Killer Bee thought the same thing and almost got his soul ripped from his body. 


I still haven't seen any counter argument for How Momoshiki would counter Madara's CT when Sasuke mountain sized CT nearly sealed him which he needed to use Wood Release to break free from.  Madara's CT is many times bigger than Sasuke's CT.


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## Bob74h (Aug 13, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Based on...?




Him loosing to genin level foes, That's what it is based on


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## WhoFedAhri? (Aug 13, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> Kaguya = juubi
> So jigen needed power from kaguya to even beat sasuke yet were arguing that kaguya somehow loses really goes to show how dishonest these buirito boys often are


Jigen didnt use kaguya power tho


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## Bob74h (Aug 13, 2021)

Zembie said:


> People are never going to agree on the Naruto/Boruto powerscaling, what's the point with these kinds of threads when there is no actual discussion to be had? Madara stans will say that Momoshiki is trash, Borutards will say that Madara is trash or whatever the fuck....


That's just debating in general, Nobody is willing to give any ground on anything as if they were then they wouldt be debating and arguing against the opposition to begin with like if changing people's position was as easy as talking to them as the idea of debate presupposes then why are wars required to solve conflict, It's because human stubbornly stick to their idea of things regardless if it's right or even helps them eg clinton trying to impose that no fly zone policy and having lost the electoral vote over such a thing as if she did impose that policy then russia would of nuked us as they have said anyways point being humans make stupid choices because of a belief in something or due to loyalty to a certain group

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## 99whatever (Aug 13, 2021)

momo dies

Reactions: Coolest Guy! 1


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## MYGod000 (Aug 14, 2021)

Madara curbstomps Momoshiki with ease.





The Ten tails Eating Otsutsuki=Divine Tree being made, in Naruto The Ten tails was amassing Massive amounts of chakra to reach it higher stages. 

Madara absorbed the Ten tails+Divine Tree, There isn't anything Momoshiki can do.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## WhoFedAhri? (Aug 14, 2021)

99whatever said:


> momo dies


Why are you not on your main acc Bob74h?


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## ARGUS (Aug 14, 2021)

What exactly does momo have to put madara down with?


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## Onyx Emperor (Aug 14, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> What exactly does momo have to put madara down with?


boruto fanboys


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## MYGod000 (Aug 14, 2021)

ARGUS said:


> What exactly does momo have to put madara down with?


he has absolutely nothing to put Madara down.

Even when Momoshiki Poked Naruto with all Rods he was still able to amass chakra to give to Boruto to kill him.


He immobilized Naruto from moving but he didn't stop his from being able to generate chakra. 


Same with Jigen he nailed Naruto and Sasuke with Rods but he didn't hit any of those chakra points to stop them from generating chakra. 

 anything Momoshiki tries to do to Immobilize Madara won't even work because he can still generate his chakra and use his abilities to easily get out of any predicament they put him in just like Naruto and Sasuke. 

 then there is the Fact in Boruto OTsutsuki must be sacrificed to the Ten tails in order to create the Divine tree.  Madara Ten tails was stated to need to amass massive amounts of chakra to reach it's higher forms. Boruto series verbatim states  Ten tails+OTsutsuki=Divine tree.  Ten tails would have had to be generating Otsutsuki level of power to reach it final form if we are using the Boruto logic.  

Madara absorbed both the ten tails and Divine Tree+ he has his own Massive power+Rinne-Sharingan.
This is ignoring the fact Madara is completely immortal.

Madara curbstomps Momoshiki with ease


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