# Itachi vs Juubidama



## ImSerious (May 17, 2013)

This is the juubidama that Minato took on.

Location and everything is the same. Juubi has fully charged the juubidama and itachi needs to somehow counter it.


And go


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## Bonly (May 17, 2013)

Wank mode on.

 Dat Yata Mirror be deflecting that shiz niz yo


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## Legendary Itachi (May 17, 2013)

Ouch to Minato wankers......

But sorry, Bijuudama consists of Yin and Yan chakra, which belong to Nature Transformation. So TBB must follow the procedure to be blocked by Yata Mirror.


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## ImSerious (May 17, 2013)

here

yes, yata mirror will block it


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## FlamingRain (May 17, 2013)

He sucks it into the bottle with Totsuka


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## richard lewis (May 17, 2013)

The blast it literally the size of a small country I yata mirror isn't doing squat, absolute best case scenario itachi survive but everyone else gets blown to bits.

Itachi would be better off trying to amaterasu the 10 tails, the pain from the flames might make it stop charging the blast.


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## Jak N Blak (May 17, 2013)

Itachi isn't one to stop things from happening...
He is one that PREVENTS shit from going down...

So basically, the fight would never reach a point where Juubz would get to fire off a blast.
Now GTFO.


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## ImSerious (May 17, 2013)

Jak N Blak said:


> Itachi isn't one to stop things from happening...
> He is one that PREVENTS shit from going down...
> 
> So basically, the fight would never reach a point where Juubz would get to fire off a blast.
> Now GTFO.



Okay? This is Itachi vs Juubidama, not Itachi vs Juubi(lol?).


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## ueharakk (May 17, 2013)

Raikiri = Yaata

Juubidama > Raikiri*10^99999999999999


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## narut0ninjafan (May 17, 2013)

But didn't Yata mirror only BARELY survive a much weaker Kirin?


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## Jagger (May 17, 2013)

What's next? Rikkudo is Itachi's son?


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## Rain (May 17, 2013)

What a retarded thread.

Yata Mirror reflects that shit back and Juubi and Itachi saves the Narutoverse once again.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2013)

Legendary Itachi said:


> Ouch to Minato wankers......
> 
> But sorry, Bijuudama consists of Yin and Yan chakra, which belong to Nature Transformation. So TBB must follow the procedure to be blocked by Yata Mirror.


Actually, Bijudama is made of Black and White Chakra-which are types of chakra _only_ available to Jinchuriki and Biju. Yata Mirror isn't doing anything since Black and White Chakra aren't nature transformations, and the Bijudama is too powerful. Especially since Kirin was able to break through.

Tailed Beast Chakra consists of 'positive' Black and 'negative' White, they need to be balanced!

So no, its not a Nature Transformation. And even if it was, the Jyubi's Bijudama can annihilate entire countries, Itachi isn't blocking or surviving that. Much less the standard ones from Biju 1-8.



Rain said:


> What a retarded thread.
> 
> Yata Mirror reflects that shit back and Juubi and Itachi saves the Narutoverse once again.


Please, tell me you're joking. Yata Mirror isn't 'reflecting' anything. Even a Bijudama from Biju 1-8, giving their sheer power would annihilate him. Same with Kurama's far stronger Bijudama. And the Jyubi's, which _can annihilate countries?_


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## Samehadaman (May 17, 2013)

How dafuq does that mirror deflect something the size of a mountain?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2013)

Samehadaman said:


> How dafuq does that mirror deflect something the size of a mountain?


That Bijudama was the size of an entire mountain range, considering the Jyubi's size is 35 Kilometers.


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## Gibbs (May 17, 2013)

Technically a Bijuu Dama is comprised of an 8:2 Ratio of Yin to Yang chakra. Since there are yin release & yang releases, theoretically Yata Mirror should be able to block it.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2013)

The Phoenix King said:


> Technically a Bijuu Dama is comprised of an 8:2 Ratio of Yin to Yang chakra. Since there are yin release & yang releases, theoretically Yata Mirror should be able to block it.


No, its not Yin and Yang Chakra. I even linked what it is. Tailed Beast Chakra is composed of Black and White Chakra-they aren't Yin and Yang or Yin-Yang Release.


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## ueharakk (May 17, 2013)

The Phoenix King said:


> Technically a Bijuu Dama is comprised of an 8:2 Ratio of Yin to Yang chakra. Since there are yin release & yang releases, theoretically Yata Mirror should be able to block it.



even if the black and white chakra was yin and yang (which logically it can't be since Kurama is pure Yang), Yaata's DB entry says nature transformations which would be the 5 elements, not yin and yang which yamato said was different from nature transformation.

And the logic behind yaata reversing the 8:2 ratio is screwy too since it's never implied that if you hit a bijuudama with 2:8 back:white chakra, it cancels it, else a KCM clone can cancel the juubi dama.


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## Dr. White (May 17, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> even if the black and white chakra was yin and yang (which logically it can't be since Kurama is pure Yang), Yaata's DB entry says nature transformations which would be the 5 elements, not yin and yang which yamato said was different from nature transformation.
> 
> And the logic behind yaata reversing the 8:2 ratio is screwy too since it's never implied that if you hit a bijuudama with 2:8 back:white chakra, it cancels it, else a KCM clone can cancel the juubi dama.



Sorry Brudda

-The White and Black "energy" you see being collected by Juubi and every other Bjuu is Yin and Yang chakra.(hence the black/white duality) It was specifically stated that a Bjuudama is simply them collecting Natural energy around them via 2 chakra natures(yin and yang which together comprise Nature). 

-Kurama by Nature is not "only" Yang, he was at a time both Yin and Yang like every other Bjuu. He simply doesn't have the Yin Nature anymore due to Minato. That doesn't mean anything really as Bjuudama's consist of energy collected externally: meaning even if Kyuubi couldn't produce Yin chakra, that doesn't bar it from using Bjuudama.


On Topic: There is a slight chance that Yata would protect Itachi(The rest of Susano would probably be destroyed), but I doubt this, and even if it was possible it would only work once. Obvious Bait thread, is bait thread.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> Sorry Brudda
> 
> -The White and Black "energy" you see being collected by Juubi and every other Bjuu is Yin and Yang chakra.(hence the black/white duality) It was specifically stated that a Bjuudama is simply them collecting Natural energy around them via 2 chakra natures(yin and yang which together comprise Nature).
> 
> ...


Black and White Chakra are not Yin and Yang chakra. The manga goes out of its way to say Black and Whtie Chakra are exclusive to Biju. 

Again, the MANGA SPECIFIES WHAT IT IS! Its not Yin and Yang. If it was, Killer Bee, Gyuki, or Kurama would have told Naruto.


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## Dr. White (May 17, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Black and White Chakra are not Yin and Yang chakra. The manga goes out of its way to say Black and Whtie Chakra are exclusive to Biju.
> 
> Again, the MANGA SPECIFIES WHAT IT IS! Its not Yin and Yang. If it was, Killer Bee, Gyuki, or Kurama would have told Naruto.





Really  

Nature consist of the 5 elements and their combinations,the only other chakra natures announced were Ying/Yang energy(yin = mental/Yang = physical).

The Bjuudama is indefinitely made out of some sort of chakra gathered, obviously. 

Yin and Yang are usually portrayed as Black and White for Parallel reasons.

It doesn't take a genius to induce that the natural energy being collected is Yin/Yang chakra. Nature being the some of all things existent, Yin being everything mental/spiritual, Yang being everything physical/Material, and the 4 elements being the forms taken from mixing Yin and Yang. Mixing the elements gives you sub elements.

Mind explaining to me what the fuck "black" and "White" chakra's are?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> Really
> 
> Nature consist of the 5 elements and their combinations,the only other chakra natures announced were Ying/Yang energy(yin = mental/Yang = physical).
> 
> ...


Black and White Chakra are exclusive to Tailed Beasts, with Black being Positive and White being Negative. 

The manga goes clear out of its way to say that what the Bijudama is made of is exclusive to Biju, no other thing except for the Biju's Jinchuriki can even create it.


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## Shattering (May 17, 2013)

According to blackwhite zetsu yata mirror reflects everything you throw at it, untill that statement is proved wrong, Yata Mirror gg, and lol at your databooks, use videogames to give any relevance to your arguments.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2013)

Shattering said:


> According to blackwhite zetsu yata mirror reflects everything you throw at it, untill that statement is proved wrong, Yata Mirror gg, and lol at your databooks, use videogames to give any relevance to your arguments.


And Zetsu hasn't been wrong before? Dude, the Yata Mirror gets shattered, Shattering.


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## ueharakk (May 17, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> Sorry Brudda
> 
> -The White and Black "energy" you see being collected by Juubi and every other Bjuu is Yin and Yang chakra.(hence the black/white duality) It was specifically *stated that a Bjuudama is simply them collecting Natural energy around them via 2 chakra natures*(yin and yang which together comprise Nature).


when was the bolded ever stated?   That doesn't even make sense as natural energy isn't even chakra, it has to be mixed with chakra in order to create senjutsu, thus why in the world would it have yin and yang components?

And when the manga refers to natures of chakra, they refer to their nature transformations via the scans i provided.  Even the databook entry of yata says it is embued with all "nature alterations" which is would be talking about the elements and not yang.



Dr. White said:


> -Kurama by Nature is not "only" Yang, he was at a time both Yin and Yang like every other Bjuu. He simply doesn't have the Yin Nature anymore due to Minato. That doesn't mean anything really as Bjuudama's consist of energy collected externally: meaning even if Kyuubi couldn't produce Yin chakra, that doesn't bar it from using Bjuudama.


Again, where in the world are you getting that the energy for a bijuudama is collected externally and that the bijuudamas are made of natural energy?  

And anyway, this scan right here is a knockdown of your argument as it shows that the *chakra* comes from the bijuu's chakra, and not the environment.



Shattering said:


> According to blackwhite zetsu yata mirror reflects everything you throw at it, untill that statement is proved wrong, Yata Mirror gg, and lol at your databooks, use videogames to give any relevance to your arguments.


By this logic, Itachi would beat hashirama, the juubi, nagato, Naruto, Minato and the whole alliance all at once since his part 1 statement about "no one can beat me except for another uchiha with the same eyes" hasn't been proven wrong.


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## Trojan (May 17, 2013)

Let's say his Yata will do it. What about the explosion? When it happen what will protect the Susanoo?
his mirror size is limited. @.@

Even though I honestly can't see how a little tiny mirror will do that. lol


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## Dr. White (May 17, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Black and White Chakra are exclusive to Tailed Beasts, with Black being Positive and White being Negative.
> 
> The manga goes clear out of its way to say that what the Bijudama is made of is exclusive to Biju, no other thing except for the Biju's Jinchuriki can even create it.



No one can access the amounts of Natural Energy as a Bjuu can that is why.

Juubi = Materialized form of Nature's Wrath.
Bjuu = 9 split pieces from the Juubi's original power.
All Bjuu can utilize Bjuudama. 

Therefore,
All Bjuu are doing when using Bjuudama is collecting Natural energy(in the form of Yin/Yang chakra) to be fired off at others.

"Black" and "white" chakra still have to be something, it fits perfectly with the concept of Yin and Yang chakra, the author doesn't have to directly translate stuff for people to comprehend his message. 

Unless you are implying Kishi pulled two new chakra natures out of his ass, and decided to contrast them with Yin and Yang for whatever reason I don't see why the hell you would believe such a thing.

Try this.

Nature- All that exist/ Juubi - Incarnation of Nature's Wrath/Rikudo-holder of both nature's.

Yin(Form) - Madara showed Obito how IT would create a mental world(recall the flashback where Madara invites Obito to the white world): Madara being the symbol of the Older brother(yin entrusted) is the most fully capable in this category.

Yang(substance) - Hashirama is the Younger sons ancestor, and gains Yang chakra giving him extensive stamina reserves, ridiculous Genes(capable of powering up other people), OP destructive power in the form of Spammable trees, and the ablity to literally breathe life into his trees.

All other Nature elements have their origons in Yin/Yang chakra, which ultimately leads back to the origon of a unified Nature.


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## Dr. White (May 17, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> > when was the bolded ever stated?   That doesn't even make sense as natural energy isn't even chakra, it has to be mixed with chakra in order to create senjutsu, thus why in the world would it have yin and yang components?
> 
> 
> Pretty sure this was explained or implied by Bee during Naruto's training.
> ...


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (May 17, 2013)

Can we please not start with this ridiculous NLF that is the yata mirror. Itachi's susanoo would be torn apart and he would be dead. 

And OP, why try and bait Itachi fans? There was no reason for it.


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## Atlantic Storm (May 17, 2013)

I have trouble seeing Itachi - even with Susano'o - blocking, or defending in any way against an attack of that scale. He doesn't have any feats that would suggest this is possible (outside of unreliable Databook hype, I guess), and even by literary/author intent, it's obvious that the Jūbi is the strongest thing in the manga at the moment, on a completely different scale to everything else.


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## ueharakk (May 17, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> Pretty sure this was explained or implied by Bee during Naruto's training.


then I must have missed it because natural energy or gathering chakra externally for the bijuudama was never stated or implied.  In fact, Naruto tried to do a normal rasengan which is created via his own chakra, and ended up making a bijuudama, so right there again is a knockdown of the notion that he gathers the chakra externally.



Dr. White said:


> Natural Energy is different from chakra but the two are intermingled. The reason being humans are born with chakra(which once again comes from their *physical/mental* biological aspects, ala Kakahi's explanation of Ninjutsu.) As I explained Yin is form where as Yang is Substance.


The two are in no way intermingled.  Natural energy is on the level of pure physical or spiritual energy, NOT chakra, thus its on the level of a mere component of chakra and would not possess the same qualities of chakra.




Dr. White said:


> We have never seen a Bjuudama that hasn't been collected externally.


by this same logic, we've never seen a rasengan that's never been collected externally.  And both the manga scan I provided and the anime version show the KN4 naruto expelling the little chakra balls that he then gathers to create the dama.



Dr. White said:


> I don't know why you posted that scan as we can clearly see the Yin/Yang chakra pouring in from the environment, and also Note Kishi's little side note for knowing what is going he write: "*SFX: Chakra particles*"


To anyone reading that scan objectively, it's crystal clear that the chakra particles have come from Naruto's chakra cloak and NOT from the environment.  



Dr. White said:


> Maybe I am getting a bit to philosophical for you, as I am simply using connections I have made throughout the city and made my own inferences on the characteristics/mechanics of Kishi's verse.


Anyone can build their own manga view, however how supported is it, how many contradictions does it have, and how many assumptions do you have to cater to in order for it to be logically valid or make sense?


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## Dr. White (May 17, 2013)

Atlantic Storm said:


> I have trouble seeing Itachi - even with Susano'o - blocking, or defending in any way against an attack of that scale. He doesn't have any feats that would suggest this is possible (outside of unreliable Databook hype, I guess), and even by literary/author intent, it's obvious that the Jūbi is the strongest thing in the manga at the moment, on a completely different scale to everything else.



To be fair Deidara, couldn't even obliterate Manda with his C0 explosion hence how Sasuke survived. His Egg Bomb(forget which C it was) was hyped enough to bust SunaKagure.

I don't see Manda being more durable than Susano, not even counting the Yata Mirror. By powerscaling Susano's durbability shits on the C0 bomb which is one of the closest explosions we have seen so far.

Like I said Itachi's chances are extremely slim, at best he surives tattered, and grounded unable to really defend from a second shot.

So can he survive it? possibly(leaning towards a no), does it really matter? No


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## Vice (May 17, 2013)

Samehadaman said:


> How dafuq does that mirror deflect something the size of a mountain?



Wank             .


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## Dr. White (May 17, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> > then I must have missed it because natural energy or gathering chakra externally for the bijuudama was never stated or implied.  In fact, Naruto tried to do a normal rasengan which is created via his own chakra, and ended up making a bijuudama, so right there again is a knockdown of the notion that he gathers the chakra externally.
> 
> 
> Please show the scans I think I can answer the question.
> ...


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> No one can access the amounts of Natural Energy as a Bjuu can that is why.
> 
> Juubi = Materialized form of Nature's Wrath.
> Bjuu = 9 split pieces from the Juubi's original power.
> ...


You are really reaching. The manga explicitly said that Black and White chakra are exclusive to tailed beasts and their Jinchuriki. No where, not once, was Natural Energy said to be involved in the creation of Bijudama. Same with Yin and Yang releases being used.

Sorry, I have the manga on my side. You don't. You're making a bunch of extrapolations without any facts.

Killer Bee: Tailed Beast chakra consists of 'Positive' Black and 'Negative' White, you gotta balance it! When you compress it, it has to be at a 8:2 ratio of Black and White and the ball will stabilize!

Sorry, no mention of Yin and Yang. No mention of Natural energy.


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## joshhookway (May 17, 2013)

richard lewis said:


> The blast it literally the size of a *small country* I yata mirror isn't doing squat, absolute best case scenario itachi survive but everyone else gets blown to bits.
> 
> Itachi would be better off trying to amaterasu the 10 tails, the pain from the flames might make it stop charging the blast.



Lol no, it was about the size of Deidara's C0, 10km. Which is stronger than any thermonuclear weapon, but not even a small country.


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## ueharakk (May 17, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> Please show the scans I think I can answer the question.


If you are as adamant about your theory being correct as you are coming off, you should be able to instantly know which scan I am talking about since it's posses a threat to your theory.




Dr. White said:


> Yes they are, Kakashi specifically stated that in order Ninjutsu to be accomplished a ninja must combine their spiritual/physical energies(can't remember the chapter but the diagram Kishi used showed a translucent person, with both mental/physical energy being mixed at the person's belly, and combined to make a fire jutsu)
> 
> This has been a Naruto Dogma since the beginning.
> 
> Chakra is a big misnomer. I will use the word energy from now on.


how does any of this in any way contradict the post you've quoted.  Natural energy is combined with that physical and spiritual energy in order to make sage chakra.  That puts it on the same level as the mere components of chakra, which does not make it intertwined with chakra.





Dr. White said:


> *Humans use their physical/mental will to use ninjutsu, Bjuu utilize Yin/Yang to use Bjuudama. *Rasengan is a perfect jutsu to use so that I can display this notion.


the bolded is what you are trying to prove or argue for, you can't pressupose that as the basis of your argument else it's circular.



Dr. White said:


> Rasengan is the human version of TBB.
> 
> *TBB is composed from collecting White and Black chakra(or Yin/Yang).*
> Rasengan is composed by collecting spiritual/physical energy from their body(which is made naturally)


Once again, you pressupose the bolded in order to prove..... THE BOLDED.  that's a circular argument 101 my friend.  And if he's collecting CHAKRA, for the attack, then it can't be natural energy since that is in no way shape or form chakra.

And Naruto did the exact process of making a rasengan which is drawing spiritual and physical energy from his body and ended up making a bijuudama instead.  Thus in no way does the bijuudama come from outside of naruto, it's done via naruto's own chakra from within himself.



Dr. White said:


> *Bjuu's being pure Juubi babies *have access to Nature gathering(the Juubi already displayed its interconnection with Nature,


The bolded is  false, as the bijuus are in no way juubi babies, they are all chakra beings made of chakra while the juubi isn't which is why it can't be sensed by Naruto unless he is in SM and why its chakra vanishes when it transforms form GM.



Dr. White said:


> and Kishi made this super evident: hence why Sage Mode is connected with the Juubi) hence what they all use to make bombs, no humans barring Sage Mode users can collect Natural energy as most can't keep the balance so it be impractical for them to use jutsu the same way, so they have to rely on their stamina.


sure sage mode might be connected to the juubi, that in no way justifies the logical leap of the bijuudama being created via the same mechanics of entering sage mode.  Not when there's overwhelming evidence to the contrary.



Dr. White said:


> No the only reason you believe that is because we were shown a shot of Naruto up close before going to the wider view. *It make no sense for Naruto to be spreading out chakra into the air, in order to concentrate a blast*. It would make much more sense for the Kyuubi Nature in him to be collecting the White/Black YingYang chakra from the environment as we have seen everyother time. I don't understand how you don't see that *Chakra particles* (via Kishi) as coming to him lol.


Once again, the bolded is only true if you adamantly presuppose your own conclusion of your argument.  I will ask you again, look at that scan, and look and look good at Narutos' chakra cloak when the particles appear.  And if you need more clearing up to do, the anime makes this perfectly clear. (skip to 4:40)




Dr. White said:


> This all centers around Naruto's origon which goes back to the Juubi and RS, which are entwined with Nature(RS/Juubi), and his sons entwined with Ying/Yang chakra individually. It's pretty obvious IMO


so nothing to do with actual feats or scans within the manga that show how the bijuudama is created and functions?  Nothing to do with the fact that orochimaru calls it a chakra ball, that no one besides sage users can even see natural energy, nothing to do with the sensing sphere exploding while the juubi charges his dama.  Just based purely on mere implications of a very subjective interpretation of the origins of chakra.

Your just making logical leaps and adamantly presupposing them, and then trying to argue for your own notion.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2013)

joshhookway said:


> Lol no, it was about the size of Deidara's C0, 10km. Which is stronger than any thermonuclear weapon, but not even a small country.


Not even close.

Even by the scaling, C0 is magnitudes smaller than the Jyubi's Bijudama.

Entire mountain ranges are engulfed by the Bijudama, and can be so far away even off the horizon.

You're wrong each and every time you claime this joshhookway. Its been pointed out to you again, and again, and again, and you just ignore it.


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## IchLiebe (May 17, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> To be fair Deidara, couldn't even obliterate Manda with his C0 explosion hence how Sasuke survived. His Egg Bomb(forget which C it was) was hyped enough to bust SunaKagure.
> 
> I don't see Manda being more durable than Susano, not even counting the Yata Mirror. By powerscaling Susano's durbability shits on the C0 bomb which is one of the closest explosions we have seen so far.
> 
> ...



That fight had more plot than the whole Naruto manga combined. Let's not even try saying that. And a bijuu bomb destroys mountains. C0 is no where near that. Combine that with the fact the juubi's bomb is WAY stronger than a regulary bijuu bomb and Itachi can't survive. Him living through Ichibi's bijuu bomb is unlikely.


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## ImSerious (May 17, 2013)

Shattering said:


> According to blackwhite zetsu yata mirror reflects everything you throw at it, untill that statement is proved wrong, Yata Mirror gg, and lol at your databooks, use videogames to give any relevance to your arguments.



And according to Suigetsu the helmsplitter breaks through any and all defense. 


Your logic does not work mate. Helmsplitter GG


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## ueharakk (May 17, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> To be fair Deidara, couldn't even obliterate Manda with his C0 explosion hence how Sasuke survived. His Egg Bomb(forget which C it was) was hyped enough to bust SunaKagure.
> 
> I don't see Manda being more durable than Susano, not even counting the Yata Mirror. By powerscaling Susano's durbability shits on the C0 bomb which is one of the closest explosions we have seen so far.


By powerscaling, C0 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Danzou's fuuton > Susanoo.  

Manda survived for 2 reasons:

1) it's a shounen manga

2) Sasuke reverse kuchiyosed before Manda took anywhere near the full strength of C0.



Dr. White said:


> Like I said Itachi's chances are extremely slim, at best he surives tattered, and grounded unable to really defend from a second shot.
> 
> So can he survive it? possibly(leaning towards a no), does it really matter? No


If it doesn't matter, why are you posting so much?  Itachi doesn't survive it, not with susanoo's durability feats of getting busted by kirin, blown open by danzou's fuuton, getting cracked by tsunade and weighted ei and melted by mei's mist.


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## Dr. White (May 17, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> If you are as adamant about your theory being correct as you are coming off, you should be able to instantly know which scan I am talking about since it's posses a threat to your theory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I will respond to this later, As I am on my way out the door.

To make a quick response, I agree that they way I was phrasing my argument's was circular, I didn't even notice it until you pointed it out. Thanks I honeslty hate using faulty logic.

When I get back I will make a case summary, so hold your breath for a response(not literally)


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## Kai (May 17, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> To be fair Deidara, couldn't even obliterate Manda with his C0 explosion hence how Sasuke survived. His Egg Bomb(forget which C it was) was hyped enough to bust SunaKagure.
> 
> I don't see Manda being more durable than Susano, not even counting the Yata Mirror. By powerscaling Susano's durbability shits on the C0 bomb which is one of the closest explosions we have seen so far.


Sasuke stated he and Manda were hit by a _portion_ of the C0 blast - meaning he was able to reverse summon Manda and himself before the explosive strength became fatal to his life.

Yet Manda still died. Both of them would have gotten obliterated off the map had they stayed for the full yield of the explosion.

You can't scale up from unquantifiable proportions.


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## Dr. White (May 17, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> > By powerscaling, C0 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Danzou's fuuton > Susanoo.
> 
> 
> You know that isn't an intellectually honest comparison. Danzo was using physics to his advantage, and wind power is completely different than sheer destructive force, hence why Danzo's generic fuutons could almost bust Stage 2 Susano where as Ei couldn't bust Ribcage with his Suplex, and Madara tanked an Odaama Rasengan/Doton combo in said form.
> ...


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## IchLiebe (May 17, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> You know that isn't an intellectually honest comparison. Danzo was using physics to his advantage, and wind power is completely different than sheer destructive force, hence why Danzo's generic fuutons could almost bust Stage 2 Susano where as Ei couldn't bust Ribcage with his Suplex, and Madara tanked an Odaama Rasengan/Doton combo in said form.
> 
> 
> Agree, he still took enough of the blast to significantly harm him and kill him. Anything without beast durability would have been obliterated nigh instantaneously.
> ...



C0 isn't that strong. Look at the result. KN4 Naruto did more damage than that.


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## Antos (May 17, 2013)

You have to admit that if anyone is gonna tank it it would be itachi and the mirror but then agian nowing kishi he would have it incinerated with amaterasu rather than show what that shield can do.

Prediction Sasuke was given the shield and blocks it Itachi fans See he can do it. Haters It was Suske with ems who did it itachi had no such shield. Random guy corrects spelling sasuke.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2013)

Antos said:


> You have to admit that if anyone is gonna tank it it would be itachi and the mirror but then agian nowing kishi he would have it incinerated with amaterasu rather than show what that shield can do.
> 
> Prediction Sasuke was given the shield and blocks it Itachi fans See he can do it. Haters It was Suske with ems who did it itachi had no such shield. Random guy corrects spelling sasuke.


Itachi isn't blocking anything. No feats, nothing to show it can.


----------



## Ersa (May 17, 2013)

IchLiebe, C0 was 10km in diameter I think.

Even not using OBD calcs (which peg it at town level) and just eyeballing KN4's Bijuudama is not comparable in the least.

And as for this thread, Itachi gets wiped out. Nothing in this manga is tanking continent sinking TBB's. Minato re-directed it yes but we all knew he could do this from Kurama's TBB so I don't see how this thread achieves anything. It'd be like asking if Minato could get the Edo seals out of SM Kabuto, different skillsets.

It doesn't suggest Minato > Itachi nor does it suggest Itachi > Minato.


----------



## ueharakk (May 17, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> I will respond to this later, As I am on my way out the door.
> 
> To make a quick response, I agree that they way I was phrasing my argument's was circular, I didn't even notice it until you pointed it out. Thanks I honeslty hate using faulty logic.
> 
> When I get back I will make a case summary, so hold your breath for a response(not literally)



I don't think we have to go any further as i was looking back and found this scan where the hachibi tells naruto the process of using the bijuudama:


He says gather "your chakra", form it into a sphere yada yada yada.  I think that's clear enough to say that it's the bijuu's own chakra that comprises the tailed beast bomb and not them gathering natural energy from the outside.



Dr. White said:


> You know that isn't an intellectually honest comparison. Danzo was using physics to his advantage, and wind power is completely different than sheer destructive force, hence why Danzo's generic fuutons could almost bust Stage 2 Susano where as Ei couldn't bust Ribcage with his Suplex, and Madara tanked an Odaama Rasengan/Doton combo in said form.


Regardless of how a technique goes about inflicting damage, the sum total damage of the technique that hits the target will be pretty much equal if two techniques of equal power exert their full force on a single object.  The only thing I can say about C0 vs Danzou's fuuton is that susanoo took the full energy of the fuuton while C0 exploded who knows how far away from manda, thus during the brief instant that the snake was hit with the blast, it didn't take a good amount of the hit.  However, since bijuudamas explode on contact, if it does hit itachi's susanoo, the susanoo will be taking roughly 50% of the total blast, and of course danzou's fuuton is beyond tiers lower than that.

If Ei can't bust ribcage with his supplex, then danzou's fuuton is obviously stronger than that since the ribcage is taking the full force of the supplex.  Madara's ribcage did not tank a COR, Madara leveled his susanoo up and dispelled the technique before it could do its full damage.



Dr. White said:


> Agree, he still took enough of the blast to significantly harm him and kill him. Anything without beast durability would have been obliterated nigh instantaneously.


then that's just a durability feat for Manda....




Dr. White said:


> I am aruging with peolple regarding their premises, not neccesarily their conclusion. At the end of the day I love a good argument.



That's pretty commendable.


----------



## Dr. White (May 17, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> If you are as adamant about your theory being correct as you are coming off, you should be able to instantly know which scan I am talking about since it's posses a threat to your theory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I concede. 
I don't have enough evidence to rationally justify believing the "white and black" chakra is Yin/Yang chakra.

I still believe it due to the relationship between Juubi, RS, the Bjuu and RS son though.

The way I see it, we know that the Juubi is the incarnation of Natural Wrath, I'm correct in my claim so far right?(please stop me if I am)

RS created ninjutsu using two opposing forces(since we know you need to balance your spiritual/physical powers to cast), and was th only person able of topping Prime Bjuu. When the Bjuu was sealed or whatever and split into it's 9 chakra forms, the forms became masses of natural energy(tell me If I am wrong in stating the Bjuu are masses of Natural chakra). 

Only the Bjuu can use Bjuubomb by gathering strange discolored chakra from their bodies(as you have proven to me) using their chakra which ultimately stems from Prime Juubi.

So if the chakra the bjuu gather isn't Senpo chakra, what kind of chakra is it?

The way I view Natural energy is kinda like DBZ when Goku is making a spirit bomb. It is always there energizing the planet, use of Senpo allows access to it. If the Bjuu themselves are just masses of natural chakra wouldn't that be the essence of their bjuudama?

 The only other types of energy we have is normal chakra(think Rasengan/Jyuuken) the 4 elemental types and their crossbreeds, and then Yin and Yang. We know Yin mastery gives one immense genjutsu skill, and can even allow for creation of form(once again refer back to Madara's "whiteworld" he showed Obito), and that mastery of Yang gives one immense physical power even so much as to vitalize Mokuton to life, stop MS degredation, and enhance stamina. Combined they can actively create life(which is the essence of things natural) as shown with Kabuto when he added Yang chakra to give life to the Stalagtites(Yin would have given it form, and animation).


----------



## IchLiebe (May 17, 2013)

Rasant said:


> IchLiebe, C0 was 10km in diameter I think.
> 
> Even not using OBD calcs (which peg it at town level) and just eyeballing KN4's Bijuudama is not comparable in the least.



It can be as wide as it wants. It hardly did any damage in that area though. It scraped off a couple layers of the earth but not much. KN4 Naruto destroyed the ground around him to the point of where it was almost a hole in the ground. C0 was where it was a couple inches difference where Kn4 was meters. So yeah it may be wide but it's not as effective.


----------



## Sans (May 17, 2013)

Itachi bicep flexes the attack back at the Juubi.


----------



## Thunder (May 17, 2013)

I'm having trouble picturing how the Yata Mirror would successfully  counter (what I presume is) one of the Jūbi's most powerful attacks.  I've no qualms with allowing the Yata Mirror some leeway given the  praise it's received by Kishimoto, but if we're going to argue using  hype and portrayal here, we must consider the hype and portrayal of the  Jūbi as well.


----------



## Dr. White (May 17, 2013)

Thunder said:


> I'm having trouble picturing how the Yata Mirror would successfully  counter (what I presume is) one of the Jūbi's most powerful attacks.  I've no qualms with allowing the Yata Mirror some leeway given the  praise it's received by Kishimoto, but if we're going to argue using  hype and portrayal here, we must consider the hype and portrayal of the  Jūbi as well.



If you are referring to me I had stated a while back in the thread that I believe Itachi most likely gets killed, but at best Yata + Stage 4 Susano do enough for him to lay tattered on the ground.


----------



## ueharakk (May 17, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> I concede.
> I don't have enough evidence to rationally justify believing the "white and black" chakra is Yin/Yang chakra.
> 
> I still believe it due to the relationship between Juubi, RS, the Bjuu and RS son though.


I would argue that it's literally impossible for it to be yin/yang chakra since yang kurama is able to create a bijuudama on his own though...



Dr. White said:


> The way I see it, we know that the Juubi is the incarnation of Natural Wrath, I'm correct in my claim so far right?(please stop me if I am)


hm.... i'm not sure, but for the sake of the argument i'll agree.



Dr. White said:


> RS created ninjutsu using two opposing forces(since we know you need to balance your spiritual/physical powers to cast), and was th only person able of topping Prime Bjuu. When the Bjuu was sealed or whatever and split into it's 9 chakra forms, the forms became masses of natural energy(tell me If I am wrong in stating the Bjuu are masses of Natural chakra).


I think that it would be incorrect to say the bijuu are masses of natural energy as their chakra can be sensed while the juubi's chakra which is truly natural energy can't be sensed as well as the fact that only sages can see and perceive natural energy. 

In addition to that, natural energy isn't chakra, it's only a component of sage chakra by itself you can't use it to create ninjutsu, and if the beasts are masses of natural energy, then Nagato would logically have turned to stone when he absorbed the hachibi's chakra, and jinchuriki would turn into stone as the amount of natural energy they are using would overwhelm their normal chakra which is what turned preta and many other failure-sages into stone.



Dr. White said:


> Only the Bjuu can use Bjuubomb by gathering strange discolored chakra from their bodies(as you have proven to me) using their chakra which ultimately stems from Prime Juubi.


It stems from the prime juubi, true, but its not the same substance as the prime juubi since we know the prime juubi's chakra or energy whatever despite being pretty much unlimited can't be sensed like bijuu chakra can.



Dr. White said:


> So if the chakra the bjuu gather isn't Senpo chakra, what kind of chakra is it?


Senpou chakra =/= natural energy, senpou chakra = natural energy balanced with normal chakra.  natural energy by itself isn't chakra.



Dr. White said:


> The way I view Natural energy is kinda like DBZ when Goku is making a spirit bomb. It is always there energizing the planet, use of Senpo allows access to it. If the Bjuu themselves are just masses of natural chakra wouldn't that be the essence of their bjuudama?


it would be if they actually are masses of natural energy, but they aren't and can't be.  



Dr. White said:


> The only other types of energy we have is normal chakra(think Rasengan/Jyuuken) the 4 elemental types and their crossbreeds, and then Yin and Yang. We know Yin mastery gives one immense genjutsu skill, and can even allow for creation of form(once again refer back to Madara's "whiteworld" he showed Obito), and that mastery of Yang gives one immense physical power even so much as to vitalize Mokuton to life, stop MS degredation, and enhance stamina.


IMO that's not really the correct way of looking at it.  There are many "types" of untransformed raw chakra which would be: Sage chakra, bijuu chakra, normal human chakra, uzumaki chakra, Uchiha chakra senju chakra etc.  All of those chakras are different, but they all have the ability to be transformed into any element and have yin and yang components, the yin being the shape, the yang being the energy.



Dr. White said:


> Combined they can actively create life(which is the essence of things natural) as shown with Kabuto when he added Yang chakra to give life to the Stalagtites(Yin would have given it form, and animation).


i'm pretty sure it's a combination of his sage chakra and yang manipulation that gives it life, not merely yang chakra as yamato implied that yang release and mastery was something that non-sages can do.

Honestly, I don't really have a solid theory about what the white and black components of bijuu chakra are, I think that it will be revealed later in the manga, but I think there is strong enough evidence to rule out what it can't be or what it probably wouldn't be which would be yin chakra.


----------



## Thunder (May 17, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> If you are referring to me I had stated a while back in the thread that I believe Itachi most likely gets killed, but at best Yata + Stage 4 Susano do enough for him to lay tattered on the ground.



Nah, my post is aimed more towards those who believe Itachi survives without a scratch (i.e. Yata Mirror "reflects" the Bijūdama back or whatever).

And while I can't say that I'm in agreement with the arguments you've presented thus far, at least you're being logical.


----------



## Punished Pathos (May 17, 2013)

narut0ninjafan said:


> But didn't Yata mirror only BARELY survive a much weaker Kirin?



Kirin>Bijuudama


----------



## Dr. White (May 17, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> I would argue that it's literally impossible for it to be yin/yang chakra since yang kurama is able to create a bijuudama on his own though...
> 
> 
> hm.... i'm not sure, but for the sake of the argument i'll agree.
> ...



Ah Damn solid points man, my theory is drown now lol. 

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what it truly is.


----------



## joshhookway (May 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Not even close.
> 
> Even by the scaling, C0 is magnitudes smaller than the Jyubi's Bijudama.
> 
> ...



Look at the nearby mountains. It's around the same scale. You claim I'm wrong each and every time when you claim that Juubidama's radius bigger than lake superior.

As for the manda argument, it was specifically said that manda got out just as it was hit. If Manda stayed, he would have melted away.

I estimating C0's firestorm temperature at around 6000K, because C0's 10Km blast radius far exceeds any thermonuclear weapon we have right now.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 18, 2013)

joshhookway said:


> Look at the nearby mountains. It's around the same scale. You claim I'm wrong each and every time when you claim that Juubidama's radius bigger than lake superior.
> 
> As for the manda argument, it was specifically said that manda got out just as it was hit. If Manda stayed, he would have melted away.
> 
> I estimating C0's firestorm temperature at around 6000K, because C0's 10Km blast radius far exceeds any thermonuclear weapon we have right now.


...those are most likely hills or very small mountains. Look at the scale of the town nearby. 

The Jubidama-ANY Bijudama is far larger and more powerful than C0. There were mountains being thrown up by the force of the blast. And it was so big that seen on the horizon, you could still see it. 

Deidara isn't producing attacks as strong as any Biju, much less the Jyubi. We see mountains being destroyed by standard Bijudama, and we see entire, multiple mountain ranges being wiped out by a single Bijudama from the Jyubi. Deidara's suicide C0 produced a dinky little crater that didn't even cover 10 kilometers either. The standard Bijudama completely _vaporizes_ large mountains and dwarfs them too, to do that you need at least a gigaton of power, and the standard Bijudama goes up to 4 Gigatons. Deidara's C0 is around 117 Kilotons, at least as powerful as his C3. Naruto's Bijudama is around 1.30 _teratons_. The Jyubi's? 250 teratons-basically country wiping firepower.


----------



## Bkprince33 (May 18, 2013)

itachi genjutsu's minato and have him teleport it away,


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (May 18, 2013)

> juubi, 35 kilometers
> deflects juubibomb
> Totsuka sucking juubibomb

I've always known that NBD is the place to get some laughs.


----------



## crisler (May 18, 2013)

itachi gets smashed to pieces.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (May 18, 2013)

Itachi fans squirming.

Minato > Uchifag.


----------



## Bkprince33 (May 18, 2013)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Itachi fans squirming.
> 
> Minato > Uchifag.



Lol your taking this way to serious bro


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (May 18, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> Lol your taking this way to serious bro



Naw.
.....


----------



## ueharakk (May 18, 2013)

@ Joshhookway, I don't think C0 is anywhere near the same size as a juubidama, all it has is the same shape.  I actually think that the blast radius of C0 is only larger, and not much larger, than standard bijuudamas.  And in this post, I provide my reasoning:

*Spoiler*: __ 






joshhookway said:


> There's no way Bijuudama has a 10 KM blast radius. The farthest one can see without refraction is about 5 KM because of the curvature of the Earth. If a bijuudama was 10 KM, it would literally shroud Naruto's entire vision.


going by this logic, the juubi dama should have shrouded Naruto's entire vision.



joshhookway said:


> The only reason you think C0 looks smaller is because you saw it from a far reference point. If you were in the western parts of Honshu, you would barely see Little boy.


that's not why I think C0 is only as big as one of those bijuudamas.  It's the actual size of the blast compared to buildings that makes me say C0 is close to a bijuudama.



joshhookway said:


> With reference to Naruto and the bijuus, bijudama is no more than 100 meter radius. Even the big bijudama would not be over 200 meters.


you know that 100 meters is only the length of a football field right?  Fully transformed bee would have to be less than 10 meters long in order for that to work.



joshhookway said:


> C0 is closer to juubidama



I don't see how that is close to the juubidama.   From the way I am looking at it, that blast isn't much bigger than the standard bijuudama. 

And here is my reasoning for those statements:

aftermath of C0 explosion:


explosion of bijuudama:


in the C0 scan, we get a good picture of how big buildings are compared to the crater that the explosion made and when you compare those buildings to the ones we see in the bijuudama scan, the crater from C0 isn't way larger than the blast radius of a bijuudama.


----------



## Bonly (May 18, 2013)

@ Joshhookway, I don't think C0 is anywhere near the same size as a juubidama, all it has is the same shape.  I actually think that the blast radius of C0 is only larger, and not much larger, than standard bijuudamas.  And in this post, I provide my reasoning:

*Spoiler*: __ 







joshhookway said:


> There's no way Bijuudama has a 10 KM blast radius. The farthest one can see without refraction is about 5 KM because of the curvature of the Earth. If a bijuudama was 10 KM, it would literally shroud Naruto's entire vision.



going by this logic, the juubi dama should have shrouded Naruto's entire vision.



joshhookway said:


> The only reason you think C0 looks smaller is because you saw it from a far reference point. If you were in the western parts of Honshu, you would barely see Little boy



that's not why I think C0 is only as big as one of those bijuudamas.  It's the actual size of the blast compared to buildings that makes me say C0 is close to a bijuudama.



joshhookway said:


> With reference to Naruto and the bijuus, bijudama is no more than 100 meter radius. Even the big bijudama would not be over 200 meters.



you know that 100 meters is only the length of a football field right?  Fully transformed bee would have to be less than 10 meters long in order for that to work.



joshhookway said:


> C0 is closer to juubidama



I don't see how that is close to the juubidama.   From the way I am looking at it, that blast isn't much bigger than the standard bijuudama. 

And here is my reasoning for those statements:

aftermath of C0 explosion:


explosion of bijuudama:


in the C0 scan, we get a good picture of how big buildings are compared to the crater that the explosion made and when you compare those buildings to the ones we see in the bijuudama scan, the crater from C0 isn't way larger than the blast radius of a bijuudama.


----------



## Okodi (May 19, 2013)

Itachi can't survive that. Even if his shield could nullify the Yin/Yanga : Black(negative)/White(positve) chakra that the Juubidama consists of it would still annihilate Itachi. Since the Yata Mirror needs to be in contact with the part being nullified, that which isn't touched will be unaffected, hence it will go boom all around Itachi and his Susano'o won't be able to protect him.



It would be as trying to erase the an entire picture on your computer using your basic erasor in say "MS" Paint


----------



## Grimm6Jack (May 19, 2013)

Rasant said:


> IchLiebe, C0 was 10km in diameter I think.



It's actually 10km *RADIUS* which is even more bullshit. In one pic, the full pic showing the shape of the explosion, it does look like it's big and all since it's dwarfing the small mountains/hills arround it but on another, when it shows the crater, it definitely isn't even close to 10km in diameter, much less 10 in radius. Author's aren't very consistent with these things.

Either way... Even if I use a NLF and assume that the Yata Mirror can indeed repell the bomb, it has to be carefull to where it sends it to, if it sends it to the direction of the ground then Itachi dies from the explosion... The casual Bijuudama from Thin Juubi vaporized an area that could easily cover arround 20 mountains.
The Mega Juubidama of this latest chapter is not only made by a far stronger Juubi, Buff Juubi, but it's size is also much larger, as large or larger than the Juubi himself in comparison to Thin Juubi's head-sized Bijuudama.
Itachi would have to repell it to the sky or else...

But I think, it's far too fetched to assume that he could repell something the size of a mountain that has enough power to *easily* destroy an *entire country*.

But let's be honest here... No one before this chapter, or rather, *before the final pages of this chapter*, would've ever assumed that Minato's S/T barrier could do such a thing, warp Mega Juubidama, either.


----------



## Lurko (May 19, 2013)

Omg this was a headache to read.


----------



## eyeknockout (May 19, 2013)

itachi can make a huge amaterasu wall that covers the entire alliance as the bijuubomb burns up as it tries to get through the wall. then itachi tames the juubi, turns it against madara and obito and has it kill them.


----------



## BD Itachi (May 19, 2013)

well, yata no kagami changes its nature to cancel oncoming attacks...

juubidama is negated with another one - similar to how naruto matched five bijuudama


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 19, 2013)

BD Itachi said:


> well, yata no kagami changes its nature to cancel oncoming attacks...
> 
> juubidama is negated with another one - similar to how naruto matched five bijuudama


There is no 'nature' to the Bijudama. Its Black and White chakra exclusive to the Tailed Beasts. And more to the point, there is no way in hell Itachi can block it.


----------



## BD Itachi (May 19, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> There is no 'nature' to the Bijudama. Its Black and White chakra exclusive to the Tailed Beasts. And more to the point, there is no way in hell Itachi can block it.



yata can block any attack; kishi said so


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 19, 2013)

BD Itachi said:


> yata can block any attack; kishi said so


That is hype, and it failed to block Kirin fully. 

Itachi isn't invincible, Yata Mirror isn't invincible.


----------



## BD Itachi (May 19, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> That is hype, and it failed to block Kirin fully.
> 
> Itachi isn't invincible, Yata Mirror isn't invincible.



zetsu said totsuka and yata make itachi invincible; kishi's own words

you are in denial...


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 19, 2013)

BD Itachi said:


> zetsu said totsuka and yata make itachi invincible; kishi's own words
> 
> you are in denial...


And...Zetsu's been wrong about a lot of things. 

Hype is only to be taken as evidence when there is actual feat evidence to back it up. Nothing Itachi has shows he can even SURVIVE against the first form of the Ten-Tails, much less the current form. And he's definitely not blocking the strongest attack we've seen so far.

Those are the facts. I suggest you lurk a while to learn what to do here, or else you'll kind of be in the red for a LONG time.


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## Lurko (May 19, 2013)

Lol yata mirror goona break against a jubbidama.


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## BD Itachi (May 20, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And...Zetsu's been wrong about a lot of things.
> 
> Hype is only to be taken as evidence when there is actual feat evidence to back it up. Nothing Itachi has shows he can even SURVIVE against the first form of the Ten-Tails, much less the current form. And he's definitely not blocking the strongest attack we've seen so far.
> 
> Those are the facts. I suggest you lurk a while to learn what to do here, or else you'll kind of be in the red for a LONG time.



it blocked kirin without any damage - the best shield and sword make itachi invincible, but i still think hashirama/madara can beat him (high difficulty fight for both).

hashirama/madara > itachi > minato > juubi > bijuu mode naruto


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 20, 2013)

BD Itachi said:


> it blocked kirin without any damage - the best shield and sword make itachi invincible, but i still think hashirama/madara can beat him (high difficulty fight for both).
> 
> hashirama/madara > itachi > minato > juubi > bijuu mode naruto


...Kirin _broke thorugh._ Itachi lost his Akatsuki cloak and got burned. And Kirin is far less powerful than even one of the nine Biju's Bijudama.

Kid (you're 13, so I'm calling you that), you really need to learn more about the manga. You need to learn more how we do things on this site. And you can't make those claims without backing it up, or else you'll be regarded as a troll. I don't think you want to be regarded as that, so please think things through.


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## Lurko (May 20, 2013)

Bd you need to read the manfa a little better.


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## BD Itachi (May 20, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...Kirin _broke thorugh._ Itachi lost his Akatsuki cloak and got burned. And Kirin is far less powerful than even one of the nine Biju's Bijudama.
> 
> Kid (you're 13, so I'm calling you that), you really need to learn more about the manga. You need to learn more how we do things on this site. And you can't make those claims without backing it up, or else you'll be regarded as a troll. I don't think you want to be regarded as that, so please think things through.



okay... sorry


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 20, 2013)

BD Itachi said:


> okay... sorry


Thank you. I'm not trying to be mean, but I don't want you to be mocked by some of the meaner members of the board. You see that red under your join date and profile picture, that means you've dipped into the 'neg zone'. 

Trust me, lurking, seeing how the arguments go, will help you a lot, and help you make friends.


----------



## BD Itachi (May 20, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Thank you. I'm not trying to be mean, but I don't want you to be mocked by some of the meaner members of the board. You see that red under your join date and profile picture, that means you've dipped into the 'neg zone'.
> 
> Trust me, lurking, seeing how the arguments go, will help you a lot, and help you make friends.



i read the battledome since february

from what i've read on the battledome, itachi is a strong character - by portrayal and feats... guy named nikushimi said itachi is really powerful, and he is a respected member

do you think itachi isn't worthy?

i mean... obito would've died (had he not kept secrets)
- totsuka sealed orochimaru and nagato
- kakashi and countless others admitted inferiority
- naruto said his genjutsu ends fights
- zetsu called itachi invincible with yata and totsuka

i'm just speaking what the manga says outright


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 20, 2013)

...what you're doing is using hype instead of feats. Kakashi was able to fight Itachi rather well post-Timeskip, and has gotte nstronger since. Zetsu has been wrong about a lot of things, and we know how the Yata Mirror and Sword of Totsuka works. Totsuka sealed Orochimaru since Orochimaru let himself be stabbed, and Nagato wasn't in control of his mind. 

Itachi is strong, but he ISN'T the strongest member of the verse. He's not even Nagato's equal, he's, according to Kishimoto, on a lower level than the Hokages, he's definitely not stronger than current Naruto, and he's definitely not stronger than the Jyubi. Nothing, no one is stronger than the Jyubi except for the Rikudo Sennin.

Sorry, that's manga facts. And Nikushimi...kind of is banned at the moment, if you hadn't noticed.


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## BD Itachi (May 20, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...what you're doing is using hype instead of feats. Kakashi was able to fight Itachi rather well post-Timeskip, and has gotte nstronger since. Zetsu has been wrong about a lot of things, and we know how the Yata Mirror and Sword of Totsuka works. Totsuka sealed Orochimaru since Orochimaru let himself be stabbed, and Nagato wasn't in control of his mind.
> 
> Itachi is strong, but he ISN'T the strongest member of the verse. He's not even Nagato's equal, he's, according to Kishimoto, on a lower level than the Kages, he's definitely not stronger than current Naruto, and he's definitely not stronger than the Jyubi. Nothing, no one is stronger than the Jyubi except for the Rikudo Sennin.
> 
> Sorry, that's manga facts. And Nikushimi...kind of is banned at the moment, if you hadn't noticed.



itachi saved naruto/killer b and destroyed nagato's strongest technique, the chibaku tensei... how is he the weaker one? itachi has access to the mangekyou and got the best of a rinnegan user; he also worked around the vision with kunai tricks.

orochimaru allowed itachi to stab him? yamata no orochi is a large, stationary target.. in the naruto ultimate ninja storm 2 game, itachi blocked a gigantic blast with the yata mirror.

when did kishi say itachi is inferior to the kages?
are you talking about the five kage who fought madara? 
that's downplaying, dude


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 20, 2013)

BD Itachi said:


> itachi saved naruto/killer b and destroyed nagato's strongest technique, the chibaku tensei... how is he the weaker one? itachi has access to the mangekyou and got the best of a rinnegan user; he also worked around the vision with kunai tricks.


Itachi saved Naruto and Bee since Kabuto forgot he was even there. Itachi needed Naruto and Bee to provide the heavy firepower to shatter Chibaku Tensei (from feats, Futon: Rasenshuriken and Bijudama are orders of magnitude stronger than Yasaka Magatama). Itachi had _help_ to defeat Nagato, couldn't face him directly, and needed Kabuto to forget he was even there so Nagato wouldn't hunt him down.


> orochimaru allowed itachi to stab him? yamata no orochi is a large, stationary target.. in the naruto ultimate ninja storm 2 game, itachi blocked a gigantic blast with the yata mirror.


Orochimaru let himself be stabbed. Until he realized what sword it was, he laughed at Itachi and told him he better do something better than that. It wasn't until he realized it was the Totsuka Sword, he should have dodged.

Oh, games? They aren't evidence here.


> when did kishi say itachi is inferior to the kages?
> are you talking about the five kage who fought madara?
> that's downplaying, dude


Onoki has a good chance of defeating Itachi due to Jinton blasting through Susano'o several times. And all five Kages would kill Itachi with ease, he's just on a lower tier than five Kage ninja together. He isn't Madara, whose orders of magnitudes stronger.

Dude, Itachi isn't the strongest.


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## BD Itachi (May 20, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Itachi saved Naruto and Bee since Kabuto forgot he was even there. Itachi needed Naruto and Bee to provide the heavy firepower to shatter Chibaku Tensei (from feats, Futon: Rasenshuriken and Bijudama are orders of magnitude stronger than Yasaka Magatama). Itachi had _help_ to defeat Nagato, couldn't face him directly, and needed Kabuto to forget he was even there so Nagato wouldn't hunt him down.
> 
> Orochimaru let himself be stabbed. Until he realized what sword it was, he laughed at Itachi and told him he better do something better than that. It wasn't until he realized it was the Totsuka Sword, he should have dodged.
> 
> ...



okay... i guess i'm wrong
i'll read over some things again
sorry for bothering you, dude


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 20, 2013)

BD Itachi said:


> okay... i guess i'm wrong
> i'll read over some things again
> sorry for bothering you, dude


Its fine. Don't get too discouraged, you're still new. I have a feeling once you get the hang of it, you'll become an awesome member of the site.:amazed


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## Grimm6Jack (May 20, 2013)

BD Itachi said:


> hashirama/madara > itachi > minato >* juubi* > bijuu mode naruto



... Say what?
Hashirama and Madara have high-diff against Itachi?



If you are trolling, you are failing at it.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 20, 2013)

Grimm6Jack said:


> ... Say what?
> Hashirama and Madara have high-diff against Itachi?
> 
> 
> ...


He's new and young, he already admitted he was wrong.


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## Grimmjowsensei (May 20, 2013)

Itachi tanks that shit with shield of Yata


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## Okodi (May 20, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Itachi tanks that shit with shield of Yata


Nah, Itachi dies and Yata mirror remains unphased! That Yata


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## Big Mom (May 20, 2013)

Unfortunatly, the Yata Mirror isn't large enough to block it. Even if it could protect it from the front, which I doubt, the back is still subject to destruction, once the Bijuudama explodes.

But as SuperSaiyaMan12 said, it won't be able to block it


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## Grimmjowsensei (May 20, 2013)

Okodi said:


> Nah, Itachi dies and Yata mirror remains unphased! That Yata


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