# DMS Kakashi



## JuicyG (Oct 24, 2014)

*Where do we rank a full-powered DMS Kakashi ?

Just Curious....​*


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## Trojan (Oct 24, 2014)

below those characters
(in no order)
Kaguya and her familly. madara, obito, sasuke, Naruto, Minato, Gai (8th Gate), and Hashirama. 

he's 13th most powerful Shinobi with the DMS.


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## Arles Celes (Oct 25, 2014)

He is a "god tier" like Current Naruto, Current Sasuke and Juubi Jins.

It is arguable whom he could defeat and/or match as he only got like one chapter to show off.

Kamui is broken but he cannot stay intangible forever and we do not know if having 2 MS can extend the intangibility time that Obito originally had set at 5 minutes.

Also we do not know how long Obito can support him with his chakra as Kakashi's own can't handle neither double MS nor PS on his own.

DMS Kakashi is like 8 Gate Guy... a few minutes of crazy haxx and its over. If the power up was eternal and Obito's chakra/soul stayed in him forever then who knows how long he could fight in that state. Maybe as long as he could on his own with one MS, maybe less or maybe more.

Waiting for DB to possibly explain stuff like that.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Oct 25, 2014)

DMS Kakashi>=8th gai

Yeah he is a low god tier. Naruto, sasuke, kaguya, madara and obito are above him at their strongest overall.


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## Bonly (Oct 25, 2014)

I'd personally rank him at either the top of top tier or the very bottom of God tier.


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## Mercurial (Oct 25, 2014)

1) Kaguya
2) Hagoromo

3) Kakashi/Naruto/Sasuke
4) Naruto/Sasuke/Kakashi
5) Sasuke/Kakashi/Naruto
6) Gai
7) Obito


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## Kai (Oct 25, 2014)

Kaguya
Hagoromo
Madara
Naruto
Sasuke
Obito
*Kakashi*
Gai


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## Vice (Oct 25, 2014)

At the top just below Naruto, Sasuke and all of the Rikudo family members.

Giant Kamui Shuriken? Come on now, too deadly.


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## Mercurial (Oct 25, 2014)

Kakashi with both Obito's Sharingan + Rikudo chakra is one of the absolute strongest characters in the manga. Kamui GG with the uncounterable space-time barrier (1)() whose execution has proven to be faster than Kaguya's S/T, that was outspeeded and warped away by Kakashi before it even managed to completely open and teleport the bone that should have attacked Naruto (3)(4), the same S/T that Rinnegan Rikudo Sasuke couldn't react to (5)(6) and Rikudo Naruto reacted and dodged by nothing, Kamui intangibility to avoid any kind of attack, Kamui teleporting at maximized speed having both eyes (basically like a free seal-less Hiraishin to use to teleport between the dimensions and from a place to another... one can go to the box dimension to then come back for a surprise attack, or pop up behind the enemy that can't even sense because Kamui is untraceable as has been proved multiple times), Rikudo enhanced Perfect Susanoo that can be used in combo with Kamui hax and is said to be better than Sasuke's (7), Kamui Raikiri with power and speed that can surprise even Kaguya (8)(9)(the one who is more powerful than Madara, can dance between an army of BSM Naruto clones and dodge Sasuke's S/T Chidori like nothing (10)(11)), the best battle tactis and skills praised by even the Rikudo Sennin (12) ... Kakashi can spam Kamui also as projectiles from his Susanoo, launching multiple shots of giant shurikens at the same time: keep on mind that they are launched faster than Kaguya's chakra arms move (13)(14), with Kaguya's chakra arms that are said to be really really fast from Rikudo Naruto and Rikudo Sasuke (15)(16); and everyone of them creates Kamui space-time holes that works instantly with a warp extended on the dimension of a Perfect Susanoo itself (). So basically Kakashi can spam like at least four instant and Perfect Susanoo sized uncounterable Kamui space-time warps at the same time, and at the same still use his other skills (es. Kakashi shots Kamui Shuriken with PS, in the same time warps himself behind the opponent with Kamui Raikiri) ... his hax is unbelievable, his base stats are god level and his smartness is the best you can find, just sayan.


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## RBL (Oct 25, 2014)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> *8th Gated Gai>DMS Kakashi*
> 
> Yeah he is a low god tier. Naruto, sasuke, kaguya, madara and obito are above him at their strongest overall.



fixed.

unless kakashi hides in a kamui dimension, i don't really seehim winning against an eight gated gai.


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## JuicyG (Oct 25, 2014)

Brandon Lee said:


> fixed.
> 
> unless kakashi hides in a kamui dimension, i don't really seehim winning against an eight gated gai.




Which he could, or just out last Gai with his intangibility. Gai *HAS *to hit Kakashi physically to win, and kamui perfectly conuters him.


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## MS81 (Oct 25, 2014)

Brandon Lee said:


> fixed.
> 
> unless kakashi hides in a kamui dimension, i don't really seehim winning against an eight gated gai.



Sorry Brandon, I love Gai/Lee but they not holding a candle to DMS Kakashi!!!


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 25, 2014)

DMS Kakashi is probably stronger than BM/SM Naruto but weaker than Juubi Jins , he's probably around revived Madara in strength


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## Kyu (Oct 25, 2014)

Below Naruto/Sasuke


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## Trojan (Oct 25, 2014)

Kyu said:


> Below Naruto/Sasuke



And what does that tell us? :rofl
almost everyone below them silly Kyu.


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## Altair21 (Oct 25, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> Kakashi with both Obito's Sharingan + Rikudo chakra is one of the absolute strongest characters in the manga. Kamui GG with the uncounterable space-time barrier (1)() whose execution has proven to be faster than Kaguya's S/T, that was outspeeded and warped away by Kakashi before it even managed to completely open and teleport the bone that should have attacked Naruto (3)(4), the same S/T that Rinnegan Rikudo Sasuke couldn't react to (5)(6) and Rikudo Naruto reacted and dodged by nothing, Kamui intangibility to avoid any kind of attack, Kamui teleporting at maximized speed having both eyes (basically like a free seal-less Hiraishin to use to teleport between the dimensions and from a place to another... one can go to the box dimension to then come back for a surprise attack, or pop up behind the enemy that can't even sense because Kamui is untraceable as has been proved multiple times), Rikudo enhanced Perfect Susanoo that can be used in combo with Kamui hax and is said to be better than Sasuke's (7), Kamui Raikiri with power and speed that can surprise even Kaguya (8)(9)(the one who is more powerful than Madara, can dance between an army of BSM Naruto clones and dodge Sasuke's S/T Chidori like nothing (10)(11)), the best battle tactis and skills praised by even the Rikudo Sennin (12) ... Kakashi can spam Kamui also as projectiles from his Susanoo, launching multiple shots of giant shurikens at the same time: keep on mind that they are launched faster than Kaguya's chakra arms move (13)(14), with Kaguya's chakra arms that are said to be really really fast from Rikudo Naruto and Rikudo Sasuke (15)(16); and everyone of them creates Kamui space-time holes that works instantly with a warp extended on the dimension of a Perfect Susanoo itself (). So basically Kakashi can spam like at least four instant and Perfect Susanoo sized uncounterable Kamui space-time warps at the same time, and at the same still use his other skills (es. Kakashi shots Kamui Shuriken with PS, in the same time warps himself behind the opponent with Kamui Raikiri) ... his hax is unbelievable, his base stats are god level and his smartness is the best you can find, just sayan.



A wall of wank.  I especially loved the part where you said Kakashi's PS is better than Sasuke's because Naruto said it was cooler.


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## Mercurial (Oct 25, 2014)

A wall of feats, but if you don't like the manga you don't have to read it. 

And yes, until new feats (due to Bijuu chakra upgrade), yes.


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## Altair21 (Oct 25, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> A wall of feats, but if you don't like the manga you don't have to read it.



No, pretty much a wall of wank. Of course what else is new. You think Kakashi can beat Current Sauce and Nardo.  



> And yes, until new feats (due to Bijuu chakra upgrade), yes.



So your comprehension is so bad that now you're equating cooler with stronger.  When Kakashi's PS gets feats of easily slicing meteors in half that are bigger than the shinju stump and stalemating a senjutsu bijuudama from Rikudo Naruto you might have something resembling an argument. 

Right now? You're just a lot of entertaining laughter.


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## Mercurial (Oct 25, 2014)

If you say so. But Kaguya shitting on Sasuke (that wouldn't have done anything better with Chibaku Tensei, Susanoo Chidori or Preta Path; only Bijuu chakra makes Indra arrow possible, and Kaguya would have still dodged with ease with S/T) and being outperformed by Kakashi says otherwise. But hey, it's only the canon manga, who cares.


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## Altair21 (Oct 25, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> If you say so. But Kaguya shitting on Sasuke (that wouldn't have done anything better with Chibaku Tensei, Susanoo Chidori or Preta Path; only Bijuu chakra makes Indra arrow possible, and Kaguya would have still dodged with ease with S/T) and being outperformed by Kakashi says otherwise. But hey, it's only the canon manga, who cares.



So you can't provide any feats from Kakashi's PS that are better than slicing through meteors that dwarf the shinju stump and stalemating a senjutsu enhanced bijuudama? Your best argument is that it's stronger because Naruto said it's cooler, right?

You must like living in fantasy land.


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## Mercurial (Oct 25, 2014)

Kakashi's Perfect Susanoo can spam Kamui Shuriken, at least four at once. Everyone of them creates Kamui space-time holes that work instantly with a warp extended on the dimension of a Perfect Susanoo itself (). So basically Kakashi can spam like at least four instant and Perfect Susanoo sized uncounterable Kamui space-time warps at the same time, and at the same still use his other skills. Pretty good I'd say. As Sasuke does, he has a Rikudo enhanced Perfect Susanoo that can fly and has a sword, so he can do PS slashes (2). You could argue that they wouldn't be as powerful as Sasuke's because Sasuke has more Rikudo chakra, but that's unconfirmed. Anyway, Sasuke could overpower Kakashi in a pure Susanoo fight, but DMS Kamui >>> everything Sasuke can offer. This is not Dragon Ball, it's not that the one who destroys more is stronger. BM Naruto would have low diffed Obito with Bijuu Dama, but all his destructive power was meaningless to Kamui, just to say.

Yeah.


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## JuicyG (Oct 25, 2014)

Actually, feat wise _in combat _, DMS Kakashi out performed the Sasuke that fought Kaguya. Again I do not support that DMS Kakashi > Current Sasuke. But I could argue DMS Kakashi is over _Pre-Biju Riduko Sasuke_.

*This was more than Sasuke did that whole fight. *


*Spoiler*: __ 



2

2


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## Altair21 (Oct 25, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> Kakashi's Perfect Susanoo can spam Kamui Shuriken, at least four at once. Everyone of them creates Kamui space-time holes that work instantly with a warp extended on the dimension of a Perfect Susanoo itself (). So basically Kakashi can spam like at least four instant and Perfect Susanoo sized uncounterable Kamui space-time warps at the same time, and at the same still use his other skills.



Which can easily be dodged. 



> Pretty good I'd say. As Sasuke does, he has a Rikudo enhanced Perfect Susanoo that can fly and has a sword, so he can do PS slashes (2). You could argue that they wouldn't be as powerful as Sasuke's because Sasuke has more Rikudo chakra, but that's unconfirmed.



So show me any feats from Kakashi's PS that match and or surpass Sasuke's PS destructive feats? If you can't then you have no business stating it's stronger when there's no feats supporting such a claim. 

And common sense is simply common sense. The more rikudo chakra you have the stronger your attacks are and Sasuke has much more rikudo chakra than Kakashi, so don't sit here and try and play this unconfirmed nonsense. 



> Anyway, Sasuke could overpower Kakashi in a pure Susanoo fight, but DMS Kamui >>> everything Sasuke can offer. This is not Dragon Ball, it's not that the one who destroys more is stronger. BM Naruto would have low diffed Obito with Bijuu Dama, but all his destructive power was meaningless to Kamui, just to say.
> 
> Yeah.



Ah more kamui wank. Let's just say kamui can solo the entire verse and be done with it. 




















*Spoiler*: __ 









JuicyG said:


> Actually, feat wise _in combat _, DMS Kakashi out performed the Sasuke that fought Kaguya. Again I do not support that DMS Kakashi > Current Sasuke. But I could argue DMS Kakashi is over _Pre-Biju Riduko Sasuke_.
> 
> *This was more than Sasuke did that whole fight. *
> 
> ...



If we're basing who's stronger off one attack then I guess Sakura's stronger than Sasuke as well since she managed to punch Kaguya.


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## JuicyG (Oct 25, 2014)

Altair21 said:


> if we're basing who's stronger off one attack then I guess Sakura's stronger than Sasuke as well since she managed to punch Kaguya.




Not at all. Sakura was attacking a defense-less Kaguya, does not compare. Sasuke failed multiple times to blitz Kaguya, where as Naruto managed to do so. Kaguya stated that she had become stronger and Kakashi was still able to land a direct hit on Kaguya that ultimately won them the fight

*Kakashi out played Sasuke in that fight.*


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## Altair21 (Oct 25, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Not at all. Sakura was attacking a defense-less Kaguya, does not compare. Sasuke failed multiple times to blitz Kaguya, where as Naruto managed to do so. Kaguya stated that she had become stronger and Kakashi was still able to land a direct hit on Kaguya that ultimately won them the fight
> 
> *Kakashi out played Sasuke in that fight.*



It doesn't really matter if she was defensive or not. Sakura still landed an attack, so based on that logic I guess she's stronger than Sasuke. Damn, who'd of thought?


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## JuicyG (Oct 25, 2014)

Altair21 said:


> It doesn't really matter if she was defensive or not. Sakura still landed an attack, so based on that logic I guess she's stronger than Sasuke. Damn, who'd of thought?




SMH

Your being ignorant. When Sakura punched Kaguya, she was not able to block or evade it because of Kakashi , Naruto, and Sasuke. That is not using any reasonable logic by saying Sakura > Sasuke.  Its not even the same thing.

When Kakashi hit Kaguya, neither Sasuke nor Naruto was interfering at that point, it was just Kaguya vs Kakashi. Kakashi evaded Kaguya's boosted attack and landed a direct hit that allowed Sakura to hit her and for Sasuke & Naruto to seal her. 

During the whole fight not once did Sasuke land a hit, blitz her and anything. Yet the moment Kakashi gained his DMS, he was already able to attack her better than Sasuke had done the entire fight.


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## Mercurial (Oct 25, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> SMH
> 
> Your being ignorant. When Sakura punched Kaguya, she was not able to block or evade it because of Kakashi , Naruto, and Sasuke. That is not using any reasonable logic by saying Sakura > Sasuke.  Its not even the same thing.
> 
> ...



At this point the Sakura argument shows he is just trolling. Don't waste your time.


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## Altair21 (Oct 25, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> SMH
> 
> Your being ignorant. When Sakura punched Kaguya, she was not able to block or evade it because of Kakashi , Naruto, and Sasuke. That is not using any reasonable logic by saying Sakura > Sasuke.  Its not even the same thing.



No I'm afraid that'd be you. There were plenty of options open to her. She had clearly sensed Sakura yet couldn't/didn't react. 



She could've easily repelled her with great force just as she did to Sasuke's PS early in the fight.





They were pretty much identical situations.



> When Kakashi hit Kaguya, neither Sasuke nor Naruto was interfering at that point, it was just Kaguya vs Kakashi. Kakashi evaded Kaguya's boosted attack and landed a direct hit that allowed Sakura to hit her and for Sasuke & Naruto to seal her.



Congrats to Kakashi for hitting Kaguya once. Sakura did that to, so in conclusion she's as strong as Kakashi and stronger than Sasuke. 



> During the whole fight not once did Sasuke land a hit, blitz her and anything. Yet the moment Kakashi gained his DMS, he was already able to attack her better than Sasuke had done the entire fight.



And we continue with the terrible logic, though I can't say I'm surprised. With that kind of logic Lee's stronger than Madara because he managed to kick straight through him. 7th gate Lee is faster than kamui because he managed to out-pace a gudodama which out-paced kamui. Black Zetsu is stronger than Madara because he put a hand through his chest. 

But do go on...



Raikiri19 said:


> At this point the Sakura argument shows he is just trolling. Don't waste your time.



It's quite funny how you call someone else a troll when you tried to use Naruto saying something is cooler as evidence of it being stronger.


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## JuicyG (Oct 25, 2014)

Altair21 said:


> No I'm afraid that'd be you. There were plenty of options open to her. She had clearly sensed Sakura yet couldn't/didn't react.
> *They were pretty much identical situations.*



Not the same. She was flying backwards because of the devastating attack she was just hit by Kakashi, she was probably extremely stunned. It was a direct Riduko powered DMS Kakashi Rakiri after all that landed. 





But ok,  if my logic doesn't work for you, then explain to me what did we see _IN COMBAT_ against Kaguya that suggested Pre-Biju Riduko Sasuke > DMS Kakashi ?

Because he never blitzed her, never landed an attack on her or nothing....

You say Sasuke has more detructive power than Kakashi, this may be true, but if you cant by-pass Kakashi's intangibles it doesnt matter. And theres also nothing to suggest that Sasuke's PS was any stronger than Kakashi's. The both had the same features...I need you to show me why Sasuke bests Kakashi


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## Altair21 (Oct 25, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Not the same. She was flying backwards because of the devastating attack she was just hit by Kakashi, she was probably extremely stunned. It was a direct Riduko powered DMS Kakashi Rakiri after all that landed.



She was flying upwards, not backwards and she easily sensed Sakura there. If she was stunned she wouldn't of been capable of moving at all, which clearly wasn't the case. 



The situations were practically identical. 



> But ok,  if my logic doesn't work for you, then explain to me what did we see _IN COMBAT_ against Kaguya that suggested Pre-Biju Riduko Sasuke > DMS Kakashi ?
> 
> Because he never blitzed her, never landed an attack on her or nothing....



And? Sakura landed an attack. Based on your logic she's stronger. Lee out-paced a gudodama while kamui couldn't. I guess Lee's faster than kamui. That logic is fallible. 



> You say Sasuke has more detructive power than Kakashi, this may be true, but if you cant by-pass Kakashi's intangibles it doesnt matter. *And theres also nothing to suggest that Sasuke's PS was any stronger than Kakashi's.* The both had the same features...I need you to show me why Sasuke bests Kakashi



Uh yes there is. Why don't you show me Kakashi's PS cutting up meteors bigger than the shinju stump or stalemating a senjutsu enhanced bijuudama from Rikudo Naruto? Having the same features doesn't mean a thing. Sasuke's PS has the same features as EMS Madara's, but to say they're on the same level is laughable.

Facts are that Kakashi's PS does not have any feats that come anywhere close to Sasuke's.


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## JuicyG (Oct 25, 2014)

Kakashi never needed to cut up meteors, using that argument against Kakashi can not work because Kakashi was never in that situation.

To provide an argument you must compare the two of them in similar situations and see who did better. Both Kakashi and Sasuke had fought with Kaguya, but only one of them landed the major attack as well as evade her best attack in the process, that was Kakashi not Sasuke.


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## Altair21 (Oct 25, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Kakashi never needed to cut up meteors, using that argument against Kakashi can not work because Kakashi was never in that situation.



Doesn't really matter. If he didn't show it then there's nothing to suggest he's capable of it. The burden of proof isn't on me as Sasuke is the one with the feats. The burden of proof is on you as Kakashi is the one that lacks those feats. There's no reason to assume he's capable of executing those feats, especially since Sasuke has much more rikudo chakra than Kakashi plus the rinnegan. 



> To provide an argument you must compare the two of them in similar situations and see who did better. Both Kakashi and Sasuke had fought with Kaguya, but only one of them landed the major attack as well as evade her best attack in the process, that was Kakashi not Sasuke.



And both Sakura and Sasuke fought Kaguya. Only Sakura landed a hit. I guess she's stronger. Both Obito and Lee attempted to out-pace a gudodama. Only Lee succeeded. I guess he's faster than kamui. 

Your logic is fallible.


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## Kyu (Oct 25, 2014)

> And what does that tell us? :rofl


He's beneath his two former students.



> almost everyone below them silly Kyu.



Yes, _almost_ everyone.


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## Veracity (Oct 25, 2014)

Kaguya 
Naruto/Sasuke 
Madara 
Kakahi/Obito
Gai.


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## Trojan (Oct 25, 2014)

Kyu said:


> He's beneath his two former students.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, _almost_ everyone.



So, he's equal to konohamaru? @>@


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## Ersa (Oct 25, 2014)

DMS Kakashi with Rikudo chakra is likely stronger then 8th Gate Gai or at least on par, definitely one of the strongest in the series. You're borderline delusional if you think he's stronger then Naruto and Sasuke at this stage, it's pretty clear barring Kaguya and maybe full power Juubidara that anyone is stronger then them.


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## Trojan (Oct 25, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> *DMS Kakashi with Rikudo chakra is likely stronger then 8th Gate Gai or at least on par,* definitely one of the strongest in the series. You're borderline delusional if you think he's stronger then Naruto and Sasuke at this stage, it's pretty clear barring Kaguya and maybe full power Juubidara that anyone is stronger then them.



He is not. 
Gai was fighting with Madara who almost had all the Bijuus. Kakashi had only a small part of obito's chakra. 
Obito with ALL the chakra he had is still below madara, let alone a small part of that chakra.


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## Kaiser (Oct 25, 2014)

On par with Sasuke


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## Ersa (Oct 25, 2014)

Kakashi's feats against Kaguya are worth more then Gai's feats against incomplete Juubidara who Naruto and Sasuke more or less trashed.


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## Trojan (Oct 25, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Kakashi's feats against Kaguya are worth more then Gai's feats against incomplete Juubidara who Naruto and Sasuke more or less trashed.



So, Gai is below Sakura's level because her feat against Kaguya worth more than Gai's feat against Madara? 

who more or less trashed Sasuke. @>@


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## Alucardemi (Oct 25, 2014)

Below Rinnegan Sasuke(Pre-Bijuu as well)/Six Paths Naruto.

I would say that he'd be around 8th Gate Guy level. Maybe stronger because of more vesatility, but below Juubi Jin Madara after absorbing Shinju.

Gets s/t'd by Sasuke and his head lopped off in a blitz. Naruto would actually have just a tiny bit more trouble with him because without s/t its harder to counter Kamui, but with clones, he would easily press Kakashi into defeat.


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## Ashi (Oct 25, 2014)

Altair21 said:


> A wall of wank.  I especially loved the part where you said Kakashi's PS is better than Sasuke's because Naruto said it was cooler.



You implying the child was wrong 


Unforgivable


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## Ersa (Oct 25, 2014)

Hussain said:


> So, Gai is below Sakura's level because her feat against Kaguya worth more than Gai's feat against Madara?
> 
> who more or less trashed Sasuke. @>@


Wut, she had one feat which was a sneak attack.

Kakashi had multiple feats and even a small skirmish. And even just going off techniques, Rikudo enhanced Perfect Susanoo, Kamui and having all his techniques amplified by Rikudo chakra is already better then Gai's arsenal.


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## Trojan (Oct 25, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Wut, she had one feat which was a sneak attack.
> 
> Kakashi had multiple feats and even a small skirmish. And even just going off techniques, Rikudo enhanced Perfect Susanoo, Kamui and having all his techniques amplified by Rikudo chakra is already better then Gai's arsenal.



How is it a sneak attack when Kaguya has the Byakugan and can see everything above her? 
and how does that chancge the fact that Sakura's punch effected Kaguya, but Sasuke's PS couldn't do as such to a weaker Kaguya? 

- So, you're saying the small amount of chakra Kakashi had, is superior to the amount of Hago's chakra madara had?  

Do you agree as well that BSM Naruto/EMS Sasuke are stronger than 8th Gate Gai because they destroyed Obito's attacks (who has MUCH more chakra than he gave Kakashi)


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## JuicyG (Oct 25, 2014)

DMS Kakashi is above Kaguya fight Sasuke


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## Veo (Oct 26, 2014)

He's a beast. He should be near current Naruto, Sasuke, Madara with the 3rd eye, Juubito and Kaguya. Probbly slightly below those characters but definitely in the highest tiers.


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