# Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann vs Exitar the Executioner



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 30, 2007)

*RULES​*1. No GAR posts allowed.
2. No 'TTGL will evolve'. This is strictly the one we see in the last episode and only the feats shown there count.
3. For the purpose of the match, both have equal size. (Exitar grows to the size of TTGL)
4. Fighting ground is the universe (no outside help allowed). They can use their surroundings to their advantage.

*Alternates*

If this is a curbstomp in favor of TTGL replace Exitar with the One Above All (the Celestial of course).

If this is a curbstomp in favor of Exitar, replace Exitar with Arishem the Judge.

​*
Who wins?​*


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## DeusExMachina (Dec 30, 2007)

Uh...Can I say that any of the Celestial clearly rapes TTGL?


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 30, 2007)

DeusExMachina said:


> Uh...Can I say that any of the Celestial clearly rapes TTGL?



How so? None of them are Abstract level. I have looked throughout the internet and none of them have impressed me all that much.

On what grounds do you say this is a rape?


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## DeusExMachina (Dec 30, 2007)

Well Odin at his best was doing what TTGL was doing at it best...destroying Galaxies. Not even them can match of the entire Celestial races.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 30, 2007)

DeusExMachina said:


> Well Odin at his best was doing what TTGL was doing at it best...destroying Galaxies. Not even them can match of the entire Celestial races.



Sorry, but that with Odin is hyperbole at best. I have looked through respect threads for him and no where have I seen galaxies being destroyed. Stated, yes. But with the 'elaborate' way the Asgardians speak it can't really be taken seriously. Not to forget that I've seen a scan where Thor calls a hand that grasps a planet 'galaxy-sized' even though it clearly wasn't.


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## Pintsize (Dec 31, 2007)

If they're both of equal size, is it TTGL sized or Exitar sized? If both combatants are Exitar sized, does TTGL still have the strength/speed of it's normal size? If they're both TTGL size, does Exitar get the strength/speed proportionate to that? Is this pre or post boost from Genome?

Ummm, that's all the questions I can think of right now.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 31, 2007)

Pintsize said:


> If they're both of equal size, is it TTGL sized or Exitar sized? If both combatants are Exitar sized, does TTGL still have the strength/speed of it's normal size? If they're both TTGL size, does Exitar get the strength/speed proportionate to that? Is this pre or post boost from Genome?



1. They're both TTGL sized... planets are such fragile things.
2. Exitar's physical stats are increased to match his size.
3. Pre- Lord Genome in general. If curbstomp, assume post- Lord Genome.


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## Pintsize (Dec 31, 2007)

Does Exitar have a sick durability? What are his powers of energy projection? Does he have heavy amounts of matter/energy manipulation? Reality warping?

20 questions OBD matches


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## Grandmaster Kane (Dec 31, 2007)

Pintsize said:


> Does Exitar have a sick durability? What are his powers of energy projection? Does he have heavy amounts of matter/energy manipulation? Reality warping?
> 
> 20 questions OBD matches



Yes to all of the above


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## Pintsize (Dec 31, 2007)

What's the biggest thing Exitar ever tanked?


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## Grandmaster Kane (Dec 31, 2007)

Pintsize said:


> What's the biggest thing Exitar ever tanked?


All of asgard

Plus he has regen :amazed


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 31, 2007)

Darkseid said:


> All of asgard
> 
> Plus he has regen :amazed



Exitar wasn't around during any of the Hosts visits to Earth. He only gets summoned when Arishem decides that a world is to die.


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## Grandmaster Kane (Dec 31, 2007)

Alucard2997 said:


> Exitar wasn't around during any of the Hosts visits to Earth. He only gets summoned when Arishem decides that a world is to die.



oops

He still has regen thou


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 31, 2007)

Darkseid said:


> oops
> 
> He still has regen thou



What are your thoughts on the fight anyway?


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## Pintsize (Dec 31, 2007)

GL has regen as well.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 31, 2007)

Odin did destroy galaxies. It was stated directly in the narration (which is the perspective of an omniscient narrator). Not to mention that tons of other characters with cosmic senses confirmed it.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 31, 2007)

Endless Mike said:


> Odin did destroy galaxies. It was stated directly in the narration (which is the perspective of an omniscient narrator). Not to mention that tons of other characters with cosmic senses confirmed it.



O rly? Mind posting scans?

Here we have Thor claiming a hand that grasps a planet is the size of a galaxy, even though it's clearly not as we see in the panels:
Final Fantasy VII Scenes, and FMVs
Final Fantasy VII Scenes, and FMVs


Hardly a narrative, isn't it (unless narrators get speech bubbles):
Final Fantasy VII Scenes, and FMVs

Earth scientists observing the whole battle, only planets are stated and not entire galaxies:
Final Fantasy VII Scenes, and FMVs

Surely you don't mean this:
Final Fantasy VII Scenes, and FMVs

Otherwise they have very small galaxies in Marvel. And surely a narration in Marvel does not use hyperboles... like stating people have the power of a million exploding stars. Which would make Sentry more powerful than Surtur... nice, isn't it?


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## Endless Mike (Dec 31, 2007)

Sentry more powerful than Surtur? An average galaxy has 100 billion stars. Also, I was referring to the fight between Odin and Seth.

 - direct statement from the omniscient narrator

Furthermore, Thor said the hand "spanned a galaxy", not that it was the size of a galaxy. That meant it stretched across the galaxy in its rampage.

Also I noticed you "conveniently" excluded this scan:



Which mentions quasars being destroyed (which have more energy than galaxies) and time and space being destroyed.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 31, 2007)

Endless Mike said:


> Sentry more powerful than Surtur? An average galaxy has 100 billion stars. Also, I was referring to the fight between Odin and Seth.



Surtur states that he has the power of a thousand blazing suns, enough to destroy an entire galaxy: 
kicking parts of a building

Sentry obviously has the power of a millin exploding stars (who are we to doubt the omniscient narrator), which makes him a thousand times more powerful than Surtur. Meaning he can destroy thousand galaxies...



> - direct statement from the omniscient narrator



Long dead galaxies... what does that tell us? How large is a 'dead' galaxy? What is it made off? 



> Furthermore, Thor said the hand "spanned a galaxy", not that it was the size of a galaxy. That meant it stretched across the galaxy in its rampage.



Which isn't true either since the battle was taking part in our galaxy and not even all that far away from Thor.



> Also I noticed you "conveniently" excluded this scan:
> 
> 
> 
> Which mentions quasars being destroyed (which have more energy than galaxies) and time and space being destroyed.



What is there to conveniently forget? Could have very well just jumbled them around because there are also lights appearing where their previously weren't any. Due to the rifts in spacetime they could have been teleported to other areas of space.

And if Odin is really so damn powerful... and he was nothing compared to the Celestials... Why the hell did they bother throwing freakin' planets at Thanos during the Infinity Gauntlet saga? Why not blast him with their galaxy shattering force?

Anyway, do you have an opinion on how this fight would go?


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## Endless Mike (Dec 31, 2007)

Alucard2997 said:


> Surtur states that he has the power of a thousand blazing suns, enough to destroy an entire galaxy:
> kicking parts of a building



That was a poetic statement, but Surtur has destroyed galaxies, so we know his power. The Sentry thing is just a tagline, like "The Invincible Iron Man" (it doesn't mean Iron Man is really invincible).



> Long dead galaxies... what does that tell us? How large is a 'dead' galaxy? What is it made off?



A galaxy where life has been wiped out? Ego the Living Planet killed all life in the Black Galaxy, which was later consumed by the Celestials in their process of birthing a new Celestial. That's an example of a "dead galaxy". 



> Which isn't true either since the battle was taking part in our galaxy and not even all that far away from Thor.



Wrong, read it again. The battle was taking place across the entire universe. It was even affecting Earth.



> What is there to conveniently forget? Could have very well just jumbled them around because there are also lights appearing where their previously weren't any. Due to the rifts in spacetime they could have been teleported to other areas of space.



Now you're just making stupid excuses. You're starting to sound like Phenomenol who tried this same thing. Besides, you just admitted that Odin has enough power to rearrange the universe as a side - effect of a battle, and a single Celestials > him and every other skyfather, and Exitar > an average Celestial.




> And if Odin is really so damn powerful... and he was nothing compared to the Celestials... Why the hell did they bother throwing freakin' planets at Thanos during the Infinity Gauntlet saga? Why not blast him with their galaxy shattering force?



It was stated the planets were just a distraction so the other cosmics could hit him with their attacks.



> Anyway, do you have an opinion on how this fight would go?



I haven't seen TTGL, but from what I've heard Exitar takes it.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 31, 2007)

Sorry if I sounded a little cranky... I drank a bit too much tonight... 



Endless Mike said:


> It was stated the planets were just a distraction so the other cosmics could hit him with their attacks.



Exactly, something more powerful would have been a lot more distracting.




> I haven't seen TTGL, but from what I've heard Exitar takes it.



Well TTGL was smashed through seven galaxies in one go without any damage done to it. After that it tanked a shot containing the power of the Big Bang (confirmed first by two scientists on board of TTGL and right after that by the Anti-Spiral who couldn't even hear these comments), without being moved.

After that Lord Genome exited the TTGL with his Razengan Overload and converted the entire energy of the attack into Spiral Power and fed it into TTGL who got a powerful boost from it (not surprising considering it just ate something with the energy of the big bang).


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## Endless Mike (Jan 1, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> Sorry if I sounded a little cranky... I drank a bit too much tonight...
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, something more powerful would have been a lot more distracting.



How so? It's easier to focus on one huge blast than tons of smaller projectiles. Remember that no matter how powerful of an attack they used, it would be completely useless against the IG.



> Well TTGL was smashed through seven galaxies in one go without any damage done to it.



Nothing above Skyfather level - Celestials are way above Skyfathers.



> After that it tanked a shot containing the power of the Big Bang (confirmed first by two scientists on board of TTGL and right after that by the Anti-Spiral who couldn't even hear these comments), without being moved.



The energy inside a minor Celestial has been compared to a Big Bang, and Exitar is one of the big boys.



> After that Lord Genome exited the TTGL with his Razengan Overload and converted the entire energy of the attack into Spiral Power and fed it into TTGL who got a powerful boost from it (not surprising considering it just ate something with the energy of the big bang).



Arishem casually fired a blast that was about to completely annihilate 3 God Realm Dimensions, and their pantheons and Skyfathers could do nothing about it, so they just surrendered. Arishem < Exitar.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 1, 2008)

Endless Mike said:


> How so? It's easier to focus on one huge blast than tons of smaller projectiles. Remember that no matter how powerful of an attack they used, it would be completely useless against the IG.



That would have been true... if they hadn't lined them up in a nice row one after the other. Thanos destroyed all of them with a single blast. 




> Nothing above Skyfather level - Celestials are way above Skyfathers.



So? It was like being smashed through glass for TTGL. I don't see Seth handling these multi-galaxy destroying blasts so well. 




> The energy inside a minor Celestial has been compared to a Big Bang, and Exitar is one of the big boys.



 Where was this said (and by whom, it's not like everyone knows what goes on inside those armors)? And even if this was true, TTGL stood up to something like that without being moved. And I doubt Celestials use all the energy inside of them at once.

That at least one of the Celestials was born out of a dead galaxy doesn't really support that either.




> Arishem casually fired a blast that was about to completely annihilate 3 God Realm Dimensions, and their pantheons and Skyfathers could do nothing about it, so they just surrendered. Arishem < Exitar.



You are exaggarating. Arishem would have destroyed the connection between the God Realms and Earth. Not the God Realms themselves.



And obviously, according to the omniscient narrator, the Skyfathers only used enough force to send a world reeling out of it's orbit against the Celestials. No mentions of galaxy-destroying forces being used against Arishem.


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## Orion (Jan 1, 2008)

Cube beings are above skyfathers by a level or two and yet they describe celestials as beings with another level of infinity power beyond their own,the birthing of a no name celestial was said to rival the big bang,exitar is above a fodder celestial,god forbid you actually use arishem in this..


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 1, 2008)

feitan said:


> Cube beings are above skyfathers by a level or two and yet they describe celestials as beings with another level of infinity power beyond their own,the birthing of a no name celestial was said to rival the big bang,exitar is above a fodder celestial,god forbid you actually use arishem in this..



It doesn't really make a lot of sense that a being born out of a dead galaxy has the energy of a big bang. And Mike said that Arishem is weaker than Exitar.

The description doesn't really sound like a big bang at all:


The 'may' in that sentence doesn't really give it a lot of credibility too.

By the way, how did Thor manage to get into Exitar?


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 1, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> Mejingjord



Huh? He had the help of some Chinese guy?:S


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 1, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> Huh? He had the help of some Chinese guy?:S



Mejingjord is the belt of strength

He hit exitar's dome so hard it shatterred mountain ranges on diffrent planets


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 1, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> Mejingjord is the belt of strength
> 
> He hit exitar's dome so hard it shatterred mountain ranges on diffrent planets



So it was hardly a galaxy destroying shot that broke through Exitar's armor?


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 1, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> So it was hardly a galaxy destroying shot that broke through Exitar's armor?



No just a strong man a belt and his hammer


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 1, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> No just a strong man a belt and his hammer



Nice.

So a determined man, his galaxy-sized mecha and an equally large drill should be able to do the job as well.


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## Orion (Jan 1, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> Nice.
> 
> So a determined man, his galaxy-sized mecha and an equally large drill should be able to do the job as well.



Celestials regenerate so Im not seeing your point....they have access to nigh unlimited energies.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 1, 2008)

feitan said:


> Celestials regenerate so Im not seeing your point....they have access to nigh unlimited energies.



Same thing can be said about TTGL.


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## Orion (Jan 1, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> Same thing can be said about TTGL.



No it really cant ttgl doesnt have nigh unlimited energy stores,celestials draw on hyperspace itself which is preety much limitless,celestials have contained entire universes,you have the no name celestial birth might rival a big bang,and then you have exitar being one of the strongest celestials around...I see no conceivable way ttgl is going to win,when exitar wants ttgl dead it will be.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 1, 2008)

feitan said:


> No it really cant ttgl doesnt have nigh unlimited energy stores,celestials draw on hyperspace itself which is preety much limitless,celestials have contained entire universes,you have the no name celestial birth might rival a big bang,and then you have exitar being one of the strongest celestials around...I see no conceivable way ttgl is going to win,when exitar wants ttgl dead it will be.



That didn't help the Celestial from getting owned by the Invisible Woman, did it?

And yes, TTGL does have nigh-unlimited energy stores as long as it's pilots are determined. Spiral Power doesn't run out just like that.

And containing miniature universes is not something really impressive, considering that it put Ashema completely out of commission. The Anti-Spiral could create miniature universes and alternate realities with utter ease without these problems. 

Exactly what is the strongest attack a Celestial has ever thrown?


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## Orion (Jan 1, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> *That didn't help the Celestial from getting owned by the Invisible Woman, did it?*
> 
> And yes, TTGL does have nigh-unlimited energy stores as long as it's pilots are determined. Spiral Power doesn't run out just like that.
> 
> ...



She has the same power source as celestials so try again,and honestly I wouldnt know im not a huge celestial fan,we know they are beyond universal level and can create and seal dimensions and realms with ease,birthing of a no name celestial might rival a big bang,can contain whole universes,and have unlimited energy to draw from and that nothing short of the heart of the infinite as far as I know has permanantly destroyed one.


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## Endless Mike (Jan 1, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> That would have been true... if they hadn't lined them up in a nice row one after the other. Thanos destroyed all of them with a single blast.



He could have destroyed the entire universe with a single blast. Do you know how powerful the IG is? 



> So? It was like being smashed through glass for TTGL. I don't see Seth handling these multi-galaxy destroying blasts so well.



The galaxies were being destroyed as mere side - effect of the fight all across the universe, and Doctor Strange even confirmed it was effecting the entire multiverse:





> Where was this said (and by whom, it's not like everyone knows what goes on inside those armors)?





Omniscient narrator again.



> And even if this was true, TTGL stood up to something like that without being moved. And I doubt Celestials use all the energy inside of them at once.



The Post - Retcon Beyonder was just half of a Cube Being, and he was still an entire universe:




Full Cube Beings like Kosmos and Kubik can do things like this:







Kubik himself stated that he's nothing compared to a Celestial.



> That at least one of the Celestials was born out of a dead galaxy doesn't really support that either.



What? The Celestials are more than the sum of their parts.




> You are exaggarating. Arishem would have destroyed the connection between the God Realms and Earth. Not the God Realms themselves.



Sorry, I misremembered that part.



> And obviously, according to the omniscient narrator, the Skyfathers only used enough force to send a world reeling out of it's orbit against the Celestials. No mentions of galaxy-destroying forces being used against Arishem.



You think they would risk doing that on Earth? Odin stated that when he inhabited the Destroyer he was far more powerful than he was in his normal form, and the Destroyer was powered up with the Odinsword (which can cause the end of the universe), and all of the other Asgardians and Skyfathers, and it still got owned by the Celestials.

Franklin Richards created an entire universe and it's said that his power may one day rival that of a Celestial.



Alucard2997 said:


> Nice.
> 
> So a determined man, his galaxy-sized mecha and an equally large drill should be able to do the job as well.



Wrong. That was only Exitar's physical shell, not his true form. Celestials are not physical beings. Exitar let him because he knew he couldn't be hurt that way. When Thor entered Exitar he found that his antibodies were as strong as he is, and there were entire dimensions and universes inside him.

Harming a Celestial's physical form doesn't do anything to harm them whatsoever, they are higher - dimensional beings.



Alucard2997 said:


> That didn't help the Celestial from getting owned by the Invisible Woman, did it?



That was a Deus Ex Machina/Silver Bullet thing. You might as well bring up Drax killing Thanos and then claim anyone with a knife can.



> And yes, TTGL does have nigh-unlimited energy stores as long as it's pilots are determined. Spiral Power doesn't run out just like that.



Does it have power enough to easily own multiple beings when just one of those beings can damage the entire multiverse as a side - effect of a fight? Does it have power enough to be considered infinitely beyond a being that can casually hold universes in the palm of his hand?



> And containing miniature universes is not something really impressive, considering that it put Ashema completely out of commission. The Anti-Spiral could create miniature universes and alternate realities with utter ease without these problems.



Beyonder was a full universe, Kubik contained him, and Kubik <<<<<<<< Celestials.



> Exactly what is the strongest attack a Celestial has ever thrown?



A host of Celestials devoured the Phoenix Force and beat Galactus:



In case you don't know, the Phoenix Force is a multiversal power that controls the birth and death of universes. 

The Black Celestial was manipulating Galactus to absorb and recreate the entire universe.

Celestials can attack and react billions of times per second on multiple planes of existence.

They can exist in multiple places at once

And God Forbid I bring up Scathan.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 1, 2008)

Endless Mike said:


> snip.



Okay, I conceed. 

Would you at least say that TTGL is Skyfather level? I finally want to figure out where it would rank, that's why I made this match.


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## Orion (Jan 1, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> Okay, I conceed.
> 
> Would you at least say that TTGL is Skyfather level? I finally want to figure out where it would rank, that's why I made this match.



Id say around cube being level...since he took a big bang and stuff.


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## Reznor (Feb 21, 2008)

I don't know about Exitar, but TTGL is getting a bit underrated.

Saying that it can destroy galaxies is an understatement.
It wasn't attacking galaxies, it was attacking the Anti-Spirals.
Galaxies were just in range.

Galaxies were being used as Shirukens, cover, running/jumping surfaces. TTGL could have destroyed at least several galaxies in one go if its goal had been to cause destruction to the surrounding area.

TTGL also survived a universe buster.


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## Endless Mike (Feb 21, 2008)

But someone claimed that took place in a weird dimension where the laws of physics were different - i.e. the galaxies weren't real galaxies


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## kchi55 (Feb 21, 2008)

Endless Mike said:


> But someone claimed that took place in a weird dimension where the laws of physics were different - i.e. the galaxies weren't real galaxies



The fight took place in the crack between the 10th and 11th dimension IIRC, and yeah, the physics were wrong, but they were wrong throughout the anime.  One could argue the galaxies weren't real galaxies, but when the Anti-Spiral used his Infinity Big Bang attack both sides of the battle equated the power of that attack to be the equivalent of a Big Bang or the energy behind the genesis of the universe, TTGL tanked that attack pretty well, so whether or not the galaxies are galaxies by our standards, the feats are still there.  Hope that clarifies things a bit .


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## Endless Mike (Feb 21, 2008)

Well that's only a cube being level feat anyway


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## Reznor (Feb 21, 2008)

Endless Mike said:


> But someone claimed that took place in a weird dimension where the laws of physics were different - i.e. the galaxies weren't real galaxies


 Yeah, that's true, as I said with all the weird properties.

(Plus, the galaxies shouldn't be spiraled in the anti-spiral universe.)



Endless Mike said:


> Well that's only a cube being level feat anyway


 What's cube level?


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## Endless Mike (Feb 21, 2008)

Power equivalent to a sentient cosmic cube, like Kosmos, Kubik, or the Shaper of Worlds.

Celestials are far above them


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## Unrivaled (Feb 21, 2008)

Endless Mike said:


> But someone claimed that took place in a weird dimension where the laws of physics were different - i.e. the galaxies weren't real galaxies



Anti-Spiral's _*pocket *_dimension.


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## ~Shin~ (Feb 21, 2008)

Or also known as Super Spiral Space.


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## strongarm85 (Feb 21, 2008)

The creators of the show said that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann could exist within our universe. They where specficially asked that question.

The alternate universe created by the Anti-Spirals is equal in size to our own Universe.

But yes, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann tankes a shot capable of destroying an tire Universe. It then later absorbed that energy and attacked. Exitar at his usual levels is about as powerful as TTGL. The neat thing about TTGL though is that it can absorb the energy put forth from its enemies attacks, which included the Galaxy Buster, and convert it into spiral energy.

So if Exitar ever put out enough energy to destory the whole Unvierse, not that he has access to that much energy, but if he did, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann could tank it, absorb it, and turn into Spiral energy to attack Exitar with which would effectively give them enough juice to kill him.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Feb 21, 2008)

It seems that you are underestimating Celestials. Franklin Richards can create universes but is heavily outclassed by the Celestials. Cube beings can merge with the universe and take total control over it. Again, they are outclassed by the Celestials.


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## strongarm85 (Feb 21, 2008)

Has Exitar the Executioner ever destroyed the whole universe? Or put out an attack capable of destroying a whole Universe. Because if it hasn't than I don't see how its beating TTGL.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Feb 21, 2008)

No, but he should be capable of doing so when we take into account what weaker beings can do.


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## strongarm85 (Feb 21, 2008)

Munsu said:


> It seems that you are underestimating Celestials. Franklin Richards can create universes but is heavily outclassed by the Celestials. Cube beings can merge with the universe and take total control over it. Again, they are outclassed by the Celestials.





Munsu said:


> No, but he should be capable of doing so when we take into account what weaker beings can do.



Lets break this down, shall we?

Anti-Spirals created a whole Universe.

Everything in the Anti-Spiral Universe is part of their Anti-Spiral, they hold absolute power over it so much so that they can  instantly convert whole galaxies in their universe to pure energy.

Anti-Spirals also created an Universe destroying blast that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann was able to not only tank, but eventually consume and use that energy to fight.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Feb 21, 2008)

strongarm85 said:


> Anti-Spirals created a whole Universe.



Which even Franklin Richards can do.



> Everything in the Anti-Spiral Universe is part of their Anti-Spiral, they hold absolute power over it so much so that they can  instantly convert whole galaxies in their universe to pure energy.



Cube level beings can do that. 




> Anti-Spirals also created an Universe destroying blast that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann was able to not only tank, but eventually consume and use that energy to fight.



And Celestials outclass both Franklin and Cube level beings, so much in fact that it would look like the difference between a human kid and a Herald of Galactus.

And the Anti-Spiral created their own dimension in the the layer between the 10th and 11th dimension. If they could create entire universes at will then the Spiral Nemesis wouldn't be a threat to them. They could have just moved to a new universe and continue using Spiral Power.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Feb 21, 2008)

I repeat as I did months ago:
TTGL = More Overrated Than DBZ.

It's getting old people. This crappy show with its fad followers got nothing on even mid-level comic cosmic beings, let along a Celestial.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Feb 21, 2008)

The Anti-Existence said:


> I repeat as I did months ago:
> TTGL = More Overrated Than DBZ.



And I repeat, no it's not.


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## Soljer (Feb 21, 2008)

The Anti-Existence said:


> I repeat as I did months ago:
> TTGL = More Overrated Than DBZ.
> 
> It's getting old people. This crappy show with its fad followers got nothing on even mid-level comic cosmic beings, let along a Celestial.


I've never seen TTGL or whatever, but...

I call bullshit.  The thing can apparently one-shot galaxies.  Once you get that stupidly-powerful, it's hard to overrate, under rate or even properly gauge the level of power. 

Dragonball, on the other hand, has a rabid fanbase that vehemently argue that the characters can move at many multiples of C, juggle planets, and nuke Quasars left and right.


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## strongarm85 (Feb 21, 2008)

The Anti-Existence said:


> I repeat as I did months ago:
> TTGL = More Overrated Than DBZ.
> 
> It's getting old people. This crappy show with its fad followers got nothing on even mid-level comic cosmic beings, let along a Celestial.



Its not an exageration, these things literally happen in the course of the series. If you haven't seen it for yourself than why are you bothering to complain about it?

If anything
TTGL = Most Underated Series in OBD



Munsu said:


> And the Anti-Spiral created their own dimension in the the layer between the 10th and 11th dimension. If they could create entire universes at will then the Spiral Nemesis wouldn't be a threat to them. They could have just moved to a new universe and continue using Spiral Power.



The reason why they the Spirals where a threat was because at each stage of their evolution that became exponentially stronger. The danger was that Spirals would only continue growing stronger until they became strong enough to destroy all of reality. Creating more universes would only delay the inevitable, even if they Anti-Spirals continued making Universes it wouldn't have been enough eventually.

In any case your missing the point. Sure the Anti-Spirals can do everything those other guys do, but in addition to what they can do they can also create blasts capable of destroying a whole universe which almost none of the Celestials, save beings like the Anti-Monitor or well fed Galactus, have shown the ability to do, even if it can be reckoned that they can do it, which isn't always the case.


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## Orion (Feb 21, 2008)

strongarm85 said:


> Its not an exageration, these things literally happen in the course of the series. If you haven't seen it for yourself than why are you bothering to complain about it?
> 
> If anything
> TTGL = Most Underated Series in OBD
> ...



Celestials draw on marvel hyperspace...they have almost no limit to the energies they can call,a cube being is a universe+ level,the most basic celestials>cube beings by a degree of wait for it...infinity,exitar is one of the strongest celestials.....universe destroying is childs play to him.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Feb 21, 2008)

strongarm85 said:


> In any case your missing the point. Sure the Anti-Spirals can do everything those other guys do, but in addition to what they can do they can also create blasts capable of destroying a whole universe which almost none of the Celestials, save beings like the Anti-Monitor or well fed Galactus, have shown the ability to do, even if it can be reckoned that they can do it, which isn't always the case.



Franklin Richards can destroy a universe. Cube beings certainly can as well. I don't see why Celestials should have any problems with that either.

As said, you are severely underestimating the Celestials. 

And by the way, the Anti-Monitor is DC and not Marvel.


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## Dave (Feb 22, 2008)

TTGL wins cause it is so fucking massive, and it has the lazengan overload and lagann impact!


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## Power16 (Feb 22, 2008)

strongarm85 said:


> In any case your missing the point. Sure the Anti-Spirals can do everything those other guys do, but in addition to what they can do they can also create blasts capable of destroying a whole universe which almost none of the Celestials, save beings like the Anti-Monitor or well fed Galactus, have shown the ability to do, even if it can be reckoned that they can do it, which isn't always the case.


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## Reznor (Feb 22, 2008)

Soljer said:


> I've never seen TTGL or whatever, but...
> 
> I call bullshit.  The thing can apparently one-shot galaxies.  Once you get that stupidly-powerful, it's hard to overrate, under rate or even properly gauge the level of power.


 It was only at that level of power for one battle.
At it was galaxy-sized.

Several galaxies were destroyed in the battle.

You can watch  or take my work for it.


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## Unrivaled (Feb 22, 2008)

~Shin~ said:


> Or also known as Super Spiral Space.



It's _still_ a pocket dimension, not a real universe......


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## The Sentry (Feb 22, 2008)

Exitar wins this. He could destroy TTGL even if he was shis normal size


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## strongarm85 (Feb 22, 2008)

Unrivaled said:


> It's _still_ a pocket dimension, not a real universe......



Its the size of a real universe. The writters even said so.


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## Reznor (Feb 22, 2008)

Where are you getting this stuff from the writers? It would awesome to read.


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## Unrivaled (Feb 22, 2008)

strongarm85 said:


> Its the size of a real universe. The writters even said so.



Show me where? 
The writers wrote the anime and it is stated in the anime that the ant-spiral space is a pocket dimension.


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## Reznor (Feb 22, 2008)

If it's a pocket dimension, then it's a pocket dimension of a universe that's at least 11-D (due to the statements of being between the 10th and 11th dimension)

That more than allows for a full 3D univese.


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## Unrivaled (Feb 22, 2008)

A pocket dimension is still a pocket dimension, not an actual universe.


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## ~Shin~ (Feb 22, 2008)

Unrivaled said:


> It's _still_ a pocket dimension, not a real universe......



A "pocket dimension" in your own little world because there was nothing mentioned in the anime about that.


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## Reznor (Feb 23, 2008)

"Pocket Dimension" is a term that you arrived at, that doesn't even necessarily nerf the feat.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Feb 23, 2008)

Wait, if a Celestial is above Big Bang level, where does that leave Galactus, who can only deliver a Big Bang as a dying trick, or Eternity, who's basically just the scope of a single Universe?

And I believe TTGL to be galaxy sized, etc. I saw an interview bit somewhere on the net about the creators stating something to this effect, I just don't remember where right now. But my view, accordingly, remains set. TTGL is problematic around here, right?


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## Power16 (Feb 23, 2008)

Galactus is always losing energy and i don't think he had a reason to mess with the universe as he is of importance to it. 

Eternity well,  edit: (more 616) he's plenty tough and that was just the universal aspect and the Celestials are something like the offspring of his totality(embodiment of the multiverse).


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## kchi55 (Feb 23, 2008)

You'd think that the power level of an anime that has 38,000 posts in the Konoha TV would be sorted out by now



Unrivaled said:


> A pocket dimension is still a pocket dimension, not an actual universe.



A dimension != a universe last time I checked, but whatever, you probably didn't mean it that way.

Just thought I'd bring this up, some time in episode 26, near the beginning, I recall Leeron saying that there was a tiny galaxy forming inside Gurren Lagann, this is Chouginga Gurren Lagann that we're talking about, if Leeron recognizes that it is a small galaxy, he should also be able to deduce whether or not the galaxies in this 'pocket dimension' are of normal size, since he didn't comment on  the galaxies until the Anti-Spiral combined the two galaxies to his understanding, they were probably the galaxies were probably the same size that we consider a galaxy to be.  Mostly assumption, but I think there's some logic in there too.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Feb 23, 2008)

I thought Eternity was only 616 (at least the one that's dealt with by the characters of that verse) and the Living Tribunal was the one who encompassed the multiverse.... confused.


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## Power16 (Feb 23, 2008)

LT watches over *every* Multiverses simultaneously. Eternity totality is that of the Prime Multiverse that contains the 616 verse and within the Prime Multiverse there exist an Eternity for each universes.


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## Id (Jan 18, 2009)

To answer some questions. 

Celestials can literally be in any size. 


An entire Universe exists, within the Celestials Conscious. 


But to make matters worse. Out of all the Celestials,  Exitar was chosen. 
“And the Size and Power of the Fourth Host are as nothing compered to those other higher level Celestials such as the Colossal Exitar”. 


My tier list goes as followed.
Scathan (Yeah you know what he did).
The One Above All (Leader of the entire Celestial Race)
Exitar (The entire fourth host is nothing compared to Exitar)
Tiamut (The strongest out of the 2nd host, actually fought the 2nd host and lost).


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## Endless Mike (Jan 19, 2009)

Why did you bump this?


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## Azure Flame Fright (Jan 19, 2009)

For the reason he said, to answer some questions.


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