# Sol Badguy vs Ajimu Najimi



## Freddy Mercury (Jan 23, 2015)

Time to put up or shut up. Can Sol Badguy defeat Medaka Box's very own demigod or will he be nothing more than trash in her eyes.


Starting distance: 20m
Mindset: bloodlusted
No restrictions

Go


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 23, 2015)

Heel Above All, etc etc


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## Kurou (Jan 23, 2015)

Sol throws his head band at her. She gets split faster than Freddie's legs








FRESH


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 23, 2015)

I see no actual debate. Apparently Sol survived being erased from existance and can destroy a star. If so that would put him on the same level as Ajimu fucking around.


But then again, i haven't seen any actual proof of him doing that shit to begin with.


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## Kurou (Jan 23, 2015)

And opinions on Ajimu's feats are torn.  Unless there's suddenly a split decision vouching for the validity of her power the threads going to remain divided.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jan 23, 2015)

Ajimu probably have some defensive shit aginst that though.


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 23, 2015)

Lucia said:


> And opinions on Ajimu's feats are torn.  Unless there's suddenly a split decision vouching for the validity of her power the threads going to remain divided.



Almost took your post seriously...


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## KaiserWombat (Jan 23, 2015)

Fucking hell, can you guys even allow for the development of a semi-decent, on-topic Guilty Gear topic in the OBD, lol?

As amusing as your merriment can be, this section _is_ meant for _*properly debating the vs. scenario participants*_, not circle-jerking your preferred setting or each other (), so I'm afraid I will have to delete some of these posts in a (probably futile) attempt to re-direct this topic back onto a steady lane

I know Freddie doesn't shut up about his AH-JEE-MOO, but this isn't exactly a clear-cut, one-sided thread created out of complete ignorance or petty spite, so please respect the OP and actually provide the necessary material(s) to support Sol's position in the debate, or I'll just lock this up for off-topic derailment, which is ultimately unfair for Freddie genuinely wishing to determine a serious result for this match-up


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## Kurou (Jan 23, 2015)

Ajimu does her star buster


Sol punches it back into her face and watches it explode all over her like a bukkake vid


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 23, 2015)

ignore him kaiser and don't lock the thread.

I'm sure a proper response will appear soon.


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## KaiserWombat (Jan 23, 2015)

Somebody just link to the star-busting feat/statement for Sol

It'll help resolve this dispute in probably record time

I'd rather not have to trawl through OBD archives/convos to obtain a feat or calc which I cannot 100% verify its existence or validity by myself for the purpose of a single thread that I am solely participating in a moderating capacity


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## Kurou (Jan 23, 2015)

>proper response


yet



> If so that would put him on the same level as Ajimu fucking around.




 it's clear he knew that at the moment Ajimu's still superior to Sol in stats and if he wanted to actually know about his recent feats he could have just asked in the convo. Regardless, I'll humor you this once


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbEIgBIEOB8[/youtube]

6:30


Sol fought his past self, I-no, deciding to get rid of Sol waited for them to tire each other out and then killed off his past self in order to erase Sol from existence. Sol pretty much said fuck that

The star level feat comes from the time when he and That Man worked together to get rid of a barrier that required an insane amount of energy to destroy. For the specifics of the calc you'd have to ask Willy


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 23, 2015)

Actually Kurou i've never played a GG game and had no idea if the feats were casual or not. So nice try.


I will look at the video though, sounds impressive enough.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 23, 2015)

All of sol's feats are done in base

While he's holding back the brunt of his power because his headband limiter doesn't work anymore
If Ajimu makes Sol's concentration snap she's going to end up like the bandits from lightning the argent

Eg

Reduced to a pile of ashes


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 23, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> All of sol's feats are done in base
> 
> While he's holding back the brunt of his power because his headband limiter doesn't work anymore
> If Ajimu makes Sol's concentration snap she's going to end up like the bandits from lightning the argent
> ...



And how strong is he without his limiter? Because Ajimu's feats were casual as well and you damn sure don't want to play the hype game against Medaka Box.


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## Kurou (Jan 23, 2015)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Actually Kurou i've never played a GG game and had no idea if the feats were casual or not. So nice try.
> 
> 
> I will look at the video though, sounds impressive enough.


you didn't


doesn't mean you didn't know the outcome of the match 




Freddie Mercury said:


> Ajimu can solo GER





Imagine said:


> Sol would still punch her in the face





Freddie Mercury said:


> He needs a punch while she can literally kill him with one finger






I could continue with the rest but I just posted the video for it so it's moot


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 23, 2015)

Freddie Mercury said:


> And how strong is he without his limiter? Because Ajimu's feats were casual as well and you damn sure don't want to play the hype game against Medaka Box.



Strong enough for Slayer to actually want to goe toe to toe with him at full power

The last time that happened Sol's regen got overwhelmed and Faust had to intervene to heal him, but apparently now Slayer is confident Sol can tango with him

There's also the bit where Sol's body contained a pocket microverse during the aforementioned shield smashing feat.


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 23, 2015)

Lucia said:


> you didn't
> 
> 
> doesn't mean you didn't know the outcome of the match



Yes, i can clearly know the outcome of a match with a character i have no idea about to begin with.

Kurou just stop




> I could continue with the rest but I just posted the video for it so it's moot




Besides the obvious fact that we were joking, if you continued on to read you'll know that Imagine made a comment shortly after about him surviving being erased from existance, which i had no idea about before stating that.


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## Kurou (Jan 23, 2015)

I read on


which is why I said



> I could continue with the rest but I just posted the video for it so it's moot



pls read freddles


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 23, 2015)

Lucia said:


> I read on
> 
> 
> which is why I said
> ...



So what was your point of even bringing up the quotes in the first place then?


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## Qinglong (Jan 23, 2015)

Yo what the fuck happened while I was gone I hate you all for starting shit when I'm not there

off topic Freddie knows better and Kurou's fucking around

on topic Sol's backyard punch was star level according to a post by willy in like the last gg thread or so (I'd post it but my current laptop is ass and likely to blow up on me in a couple mins) and Slayer's punch is also roughly ~star level based on luminosity

unless speed is equal Ajimu is faster (in attack speed at least unless you scale to Slayer's arm movement speed for his IK) while Sol can shrug off most of her hax unless she has dimensional BFR, which I'm pretty sure he does, although Dandy says he could still deal with that but it would take him a little time (note this was pre Xrd)

EDIT: According to Dandy BFR likely isn't a problem for him since he gets back from it on his own 

Also, expect this to be the last serious post I make in this thread


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## Vivi Ornitier (Jan 24, 2015)

Badguy is pronounced Badgee and is French for Good Man. Sol decides to be a good man and takes her out to dinner


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## willyvereb (Jan 24, 2015)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> Badguy is pronounced Badgee and is French for Good Man. Sol decides to be a good man and takes her out to dinner


That's a rather odd way to pronounce "Ajeemoo gets kicked in the face".
Sol has standards and doesn't date random underage girls even if they claim to be older than the entire universe.


**


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## Vivi Ornitier (Jan 24, 2015)

willyvereb said:


> That's a rather odd way to pronounce "Ajeemoo gets kicked in the face".
> Sol has standards and doesn't date random underage girls even if they claim to be older than the entire universe.


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 24, 2015)

willyvereb said:


> That's a rather odd way to pronounce "Ajeemoo gets kicked in the face".
> Sol has standards and doesn't date random underage girls even if they claim to be older than the entire universe.
> 
> 
> On-topic: Does she have any resistance against soul based attacks? Sol did destroy Justice's soul who previously could withstand the Universal Will, or at least a bit of it which was about to manifest on Earth. It'd have destroyed the planet by plain fucking over reality with information overload equivalent to a galactic cluster. It'd be also more than capable of overwhelming the consciousness of all people on Earth. Justice resisted this long enough to destroy Japan thus get rid of the problem. Sol's attacks still were powerful enough to destroy even Justice's soul.



Ajimu don't even look underage.


And yes, it's implied she has resistance as it was stated that she could have came back whenever she felt like it from a lethal attack from Iihiko after he died and his ability wore off. Iihiko's  own attacks had soul-fucking properties shown when his ability destroyed his own soul while he possessed Shiranui, without actually damaging her physical body in the aftermath.


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## willyvereb (Jan 24, 2015)

That's all?
If Ajimu doesn't have anything better then I guess this fight would be settled after the first exchange.


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 24, 2015)

From what people are saying in this thread Sol doesn't exactly have the skill set to even put her down.


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## willyvereb (Jan 24, 2015)

Are you having a sudden brain fart or something?
Because I just said he could destroy Ajimu's soul and whatever feat you put up in defense was hilariously insufficient.


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## Qinglong (Jan 24, 2015)

Sol breaks her like he broke the Cube

by turning sideways


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 24, 2015)

willyvereb said:


> Are you having a sudden brain fart or something?
> Because I just said he could destroy Ajimu's soul and whatever feat you put up in defense was hilariously insufficient.



And clearly you have no idea of the circumstances of Iihiko's ability.


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## willyvereb (Jan 24, 2015)

Rather clearl, I would say.
The problem is that you haven't even tried to make a proper argument for it.
Just because it can destroy souls it doesn't make that equal with Sol's tech.


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 24, 2015)

willyvereb said:


> Rather clearl, I would say.
> The problem is that you haven't even tried to make a proper argument for it.
> Just because it can destroy souls it doesn't make that equal with Sol's tech.



Ok then. To put it in simple terms, it's broken. His Irreversible Destroyer completely ignores any type of durability or hax and causes damage that can not be ignored.

All Fiction, which worked on a planetary scale could not even heal an arm that he broke. Ajimu, who was omnipresent was killed off and couldn't even appear in the separate dimensions that she created, which previously she was shown to exist in at the same time.

The only thing that "healed" the damage was reversing your age to a point in time before he damaged you, and even then it's only a temporary means of relief. Not to mention it was done by a style, the only ability in their universe that even had the slightest hope of fazing him.


The ability itself was stronger than anything Ajimu had in her arsenal, which includes her starbuster. But it didn't even completely destroy her soul as she was able to communicate with Zenkichi shortly before his battle with Iihiko.


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## willyvereb (Jan 24, 2015)

All it says to me that Kumagawa cannot heal from damage caused by soul or conceptual bullshit sources.
And that Ajimu can practically die if her soul is destroyed, unless she can abuse some kind of loophole.
Long story short, she's


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 24, 2015)

willyvereb said:


> All it says to me that Kumagawa cannot heal from damage caused by soul or conceptual bullshit sources.
> And that Ajimu can practically die if her soul is destroyed, unless she can abuse some kind of loophole.
> Long story short, she's



Actually all it says is that you have no idea what you are talking about. The soul fucking was a side effect of his ability, not the main point.

And again, Iihiko himself confirmed that Ajimu could return so it's a  moot point.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 24, 2015)

Reminder that Sol hasn't even gone 100% vs That Man


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## Alucardemi (Jan 24, 2015)

Freddie Mercury said:


> But it didn't even completely destroy her soul as she was able to communicate with Zenkichi shortly before his battle with Iihiko.



I don't think this is necessarily the case.

She was probably able to do that because her words were inside Zenkichi, and he was hallucinating about how he carried his friend's feelings with him after receiving a Style. Keep in mind that Ajimu had died several, several chapters ago and didn't communicate with anyone until Zenkichi started exploring the words inside of him.

So, it likely had something to do with the fact that it was Zenkichi, and he had the strongest style.

Or maybe one could argue that Zenkichi was the most important person to her and she didn't give a damn to talk to anyone else. I don't know.

~~~

This thread so isn't for me. I feel like I'd get incinerated if I jumped in the middle of it, the beefs here are strong  

So I guess this is my last post here. I know nothing of Sol anyways


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 24, 2015)

Alucardemi said:


> I don't think this is necessarily the case.
> 
> She was probably able to do that because her words were inside Zenkichi, and he was hallucinating about how he carried his friend's feelings with him after receiving a Style. Keep in mind that Ajimu had died several, several chapters ago and didn't communicate with anyone until Zenkichi started exploring the words inside of him.



Zenkichi was dreaming of his friends while he was unconscious. Ajimu spoke to him after Kotobuki had already woken him up, and unlike the rest of the people, Ajimu's face wasn't even shown and Zenkichi was surprised to hear her voice.



> So, it likely had something to do with the fact that it was Zenkichi, and he had the strongest style.



Well that much is a given. She even told him to "speak" meaning she was still aware and was even rooting for him to defeat Iihiko.





> Or maybe one could argue that Zenkichi was the most important person to her and she didn't give a damn to talk to anyone else. I don't know.
> 
> ~~~



She did spend a good while training him, and as shown in the Jet Black arc she even has a soft spot for him. So yeah.


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## Blue (Jan 24, 2015)

Sorry, but there's no way Sol takes this. 

He did survive being erased from the timeline by basically saying "nah, fuck that" and stepping back into it, but that's not really a big enough deal to put him up against Ajimu. 

Sol lost to Justice, and by any measure Ajimu should be able to poof Justice like a soap bubble. All this "lol Sol jerks off and a star explodes" is ridiculous wank and totally opposite his character, which is a fighter and a brawler, not a starbusting nigh-omnipotent.

Is Sol way more badass than Ajimu? Of course. Could he "fight and brawl" a small continent, and win? Probably. But that's no excuse for pretending he has a chance against what is apparently an actual starbusting nigh-omnipotent.


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## Blue (Jan 24, 2015)

> according to a post by willy



So that's where this starbust shit came from

Y'all need to stop taking him on the level


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## Vivi Ornitier (Jan 24, 2015)

Yo Blue just wondering, have you played Xrd yet?

(You really should, it's fukken bawse)


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 24, 2015)

Sol didn't lose to Justice 

He couldn't put her down the first time they fought because he didn't have the fireseal

in Missing link with Fireseal+ Limiter Removed he murdered the absolute living shit out of her

then that was retconned to him completely embarassing and murdering the fuck out of her

in base

just from getting fireseal alone

that was Sol back when he was piss weak compared to now


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## Vivi Ornitier (Jan 24, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Sol didn't lose to Justice
> 
> He couldn't put her down the first time they fought because he didn't have the fireseal
> 
> ...



He also killed clones of Justice with ease.


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## Blue (Jan 24, 2015)

I haven't had the chance yet, it's definitely high up on my list. I need to get my GG crew back together tho, wouldn't be any fun playing the CPU.


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## Blue (Jan 24, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Sol didn't lose to Justice
> 
> He couldn't put her down the first time they fought because he didn't have the fireseal
> 
> ...


Okay so listen to what you're saying here

"Sol couldn't beat a country buster because he didn't have a weapon"

Which, okay, is legit; if all you need to beat something that blew up Japan is a paddle, you're pretty badass.

But what does that have to do with beating Ajimu?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 24, 2015)

Because Sol's gotten a fuckload stronger since then?

Because Sol didn't go 100% vs That Man despite Dragon Installing right off the bat

Because Slayer apparently considers having an all-out battle with Sol with his winquote?


Because Xrd implies Sol can give his blows effects that destroy/eradicate souls because they recovered Justice's Body but couldn't replicate her soul?

Because Sol tanked having a pocket microverse inside his body when he was smashing through Absolute Defense: Felion?


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## Alucardemi (Jan 24, 2015)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Zenkichi was dreaming of his friends while he was unconscious. Ajimu spoke to him after Kotobuki had already woken him up, and unlike the rest of the people, Ajimu's face wasn't even shown and Zenkichi was surprised to hear her voice.



1 - He heard Ajimu's voice when he was unconscious(dead, really) too. In-fact, it was the voice that woke him.

2 - Zenkichi pretty much reacted to surprise to every person when he finally recognized them. Remember, he was like; "Oh, that you, Akune?!".

What I mean to say is that the circumstances are definitely extraordinary, and I don't think there's a way to meaningfully distinguish "Ajimu surviving" from "Zenkichi hearing the words inside him".



Freddie Mercury said:


> Well that much is a given. She even told him to "speak" meaning she was still aware and was even rooting for him to defeat Iihiko.



Well, I meant something abit different.

I meant that there is a possibility that she was only able to communicate to him from undeath or wherever the fuck she was because of Contradictory Conjunction.

Styles can surpass dimensions, and that style in particular materializes impossible outcomes. If Zenkichi's feelings were to hear Ajimu at that moment, then since there is no lying with Styles, it would do its best to materialize that feeling with inversion. Entirely possible, given that Contradictory Conjunction has shown to be lethal even to Shirahiiko's Irreversible Destroyer defense.



Freddie Mercury said:


> She did spend a good while training him, and as shown in the Jet Black arc she even has a soft spot for him. So yeah.



A feasible argument to make, I won't deny it.

But this is sorta my problem with Medaka Box in vs. There are several explanations for one plot-point, and if I'm being frank, I don't find there being a way to tell which one is correct, due to the series's less directe storytelling.

That said, it is entirely true that Ajimu could restore herself after Iihiko died, according to the manga.


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## MAPSK (Jan 24, 2015)

>evidence for star level+ GG comes from Slayer's Instant Kill

So does this mean we have moon level BB chars now?


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## Vivi Ornitier (Jan 24, 2015)

MAPSK said:


> >evidence for star level+ GG comes from Slayer's Instant Kill
> 
> So does this mean we have moon level BB chars now?



We already went over that in the Sol VS Ragna thread. It's a gag feat done by a lower tier character, it's in the same boat as Chie's galactic punt. Slayer's is legit since it was done by a top tier and thus is not an outlier.

As much as I would love for my precious squirrel to be a moonbuster....


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 24, 2015)

Y'all motherfuckers DO realize Slayer and Sol's IK's are just them hitting you Seriously

Right?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 24, 2015)

MAPSK said:


> >evidence for star level+ GG comes from Slayer's Instant Kill
> 
> So does this mean we have moon level BB chars now?


Get that shit out of here


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 24, 2015)

Alucardemi said:


> 1 - He heard Ajimu's voice when he was unconscious(dead, really) too. In-fact, it was the voice that woke him.



Which doesn't change a thing that i said to be honest. 



> 2 - Zenkichi pretty much reacted to surprise to every person when he finally recognized them. Remember, he was like; "Oh, that you, Akune?!".



Well surprised may have been the wrong word to use. To rephrase it his reaction was different when he heard Ajimu's voice compared to the others.



> What I mean to say is that the circumstances are definitely extraordinary, and I don't think there's a way to meaningfully distinguish "Ajimu surviving" from "Zenkichi hearing the words inside him".



The conversations were completely different though. While the other people were giving him pep talks, which Zenkichi himself said was hallucinations. Ajimu actually responded to him when he claimed his words will reach and was the only one to reference his newly acquired style. 




> Well, I meant something abit different.
> 
> I meant that there is a possibility that she was only able to communicate to him from undeath or wherever the fuck she was because of Contradictory Conjunction.



Maybe, but that comment implies she'll alive have to be alive somewhere to actually do it.



> Styles can surpass dimensions, and that style in particular materializes impossible outcomes. If Zenkichi's feelings were to hear Ajimu at that moment, then since there is no lying with Styles, it do its best to materialize that feeling with inversion. Entirely possible, given that Contradictory Conjunction has shown to be lethal even to Shirahiiko's Irreversible Destroyer defense.



That's actually a good argument, but still, i think they made it clear enough that Ajimu wasn't fully dead in that sense. After all you said it yourself, the words came from his heart and Ajimu was actually relieved that hers was able to reach him as well, and i doubt Zenkichi could hallucinate something like that.




> A feasible argument to make, I won't deny it.
> 
> But this is sorta my problem with Medaka Box in vs. There are several explanations for one plot-point, and if I'm being frank, I don't find there being a way to tell which one is correct, due to the series's less directe storytelling.
> 
> That said, it is entirely true that Ajimu could restore herself after Iihiko died, according to the manga.




Well the last part is pretty much all that matters in the end. In fact the feat would be even more impressive if she was completely dead soul and all and could still revive herself.


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 24, 2015)

MAPSK said:


> >evidence for star level+ GG comes from Slayer's Instant Kill
> 
> So does this mean we have moon level BB chars now?



These kind of jokes is what got you grilled last time.


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## NightmareCinema (Jan 24, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Y'all motherfuckers DO realize Slayer and Sol's IK's are just them hitting you Seriously
> 
> Right?



With them still holding back, in addition.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 24, 2015)

There's also the whole bit where Sol's been getting stronger and stronger in each rep of the Xrd arcade mode that I-no goes through

So timefuckery/time travel vs Sol is a BAD
BAD
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD idea


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## Qinglong (Jan 24, 2015)

Blue said:


> Sorry, but there's no way Sol takes this.
> 
> He did survive being erased from the timeline by basically saying "nah, fuck that" and stepping back into it, but that's not really a big enough deal to put him up against Ajimu.
> 
> ...



first off Justice Vaporized Japan so hard it left a 1200 mile crater on the seabed, fucked over Korea and the islands near russia are also gone

Also the Backyard was manifesting inside Justice at that time which caused her to contain a galactic cluster's worth of information inside her head at the time

Unfortunately this was caused by the Universal Will so it's not yet clear if we could scale this to the Cube

Then came the Backyard Punch in Xrd which was basically a black hole and a microverse which winded him but he still basically tanked internally

It'd help if you checked for new feats and information first Blue



EDIT: Did you just compare the Fireseal to a paddle? You do know the Thunderseal a comparable weapon allowed Kiske who is way worse with magic than Sol is to create an indefinite time stasis field correct?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 24, 2015)

Did nobody check shit that happened in Xrd or I'm just going crazy


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 24, 2015)

Checking for feats/using the search function is hard, bro


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## Qinglong (Jan 24, 2015)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> Did nobody check shit that happened in Xrd or I'm just going crazy



Nobody checked shit that happened in Xrd

or Missing Link

or Overture


basically.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Jan 24, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Checking for feats/using the search function is hard, bro



To be fair the site's search function is pretty terrible.


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## Amae (Jan 24, 2015)

Just google search "site: narutoforums.com [whatever]", have most not figured that out?


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## Ulti (Jan 24, 2015)

Aye, that's what I do all the time.


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## Alucardemi (Jan 24, 2015)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Which doesn't change a thing that i said to be honest.



Yeah, I was just pointing out the fact that Ajimu's were the last words he heard while dead, which alot of people don't know. Most thought it was Tsurubami's words talking to him.

Interesting that neither Shiranui's or Medaka's words are present, too.



Freddie Mercury said:


> Well surprised may have been the wrong word to use. To rephrase it his reaction was different when he heard Ajimu's voice compared to the others.



To be fair, Zenkichi's reactions themselves were honestly pretty indistinguishable.


*Spoiler*: __ 




Akune's reaction


Ajimu's reaction




However, to be doubly fair, now that I've read it again and payed attention to detail, Ajimu did have different speech bubbles from the rest Zenkichi's friends. So there is a difference there.



Freddie Mercury said:


> The conversations were completely different though. While the other people were giving him pep talks, which Zenkichi himself said was hallucinations. Ajimu actually responded to him when he claimed his words will reach and was the only one to reference his newly acquired style.



Zenkichi's friends also referenced the current situation, too, though.


*Spoiler*: __ 








Kikaijima said that she was sure he could save the world when everyone else failed, Nabeshima told him that with a few tricks(a style), you could even win against a protagonist, and Kanoya stated that Zenkichi had surpassed Medaka from the very beginning, also a reference to the use of Styles, which Zenkichi instinctively understood the nature of, when Medaka, according to Nienami, didn't.

All in all, they all reference the current situation because those hallucinations are meant to be _Zenkichi imagining what his friends would say to him at a time like that._ Because he's so good at communication and understanding, he could imagine their words and know how each one of them would reply to him. Lastly, Ajimu's words were also her form of pep-talking.

However, you're right that there is a difference. Her speech bubbles are different. I'm trying to figure what that means, though.



Freddie Mercury said:


> Maybe, but that comment implies she'll alive have to be alive somewhere to actually do it.



True, in a sense, that's one option.

Or, Contradictory Conjunction temporarily inverted the link between life and death for Ajimu giving her the opportunity to briefly speak and watch him because Zenkichi wanted to hear her words.



Freddie Mercury said:


> That's actually a good argument, but still, i think they made it clear enough that Ajimu wasn't fully dead in that sense. After all you said it yourself, the words came from his heart and Ajimu was actually relieved that hers was able to reach him as well, and i doubt Zenkichi could hallucinate something like that.



Yes, but then again, did that happen because of Contradictory Conjunction, which had Zenkichi more propense to hearing the words in his heart? After all, he couldn't recognize the people saying those words while he was dead, he just wanted to sleep. After receiving the Style, he organized and understood all the words inside of him, and who were saying them.

What throws it off for me is the timing. Ajimu only talks to him, and its after receiving the most unfair, over-powered ability in the manga, which brings out the words inside of him.

That's what makes me skeptical that Ajimu was alive somehow, and he was hallucinating exactly what his friends would tell him if they were actually there, which he knows instinctively.



Freddie Mercury said:


> Well the last part is pretty much all that matters in the end. In fact the feat would be even more impressive if she was completely dead soul and all and could still revive herself.



Yeah, I suppose I'm just being pedantic, when I'm just skeptical about how alive she was, not that she could restore herself.

Truth be told, I'd love to finally argue for a MB character in the Vs forum, so I guess I'll drop the issue since it's relatively irrelevant. I mean, I'd love to see Zenkichi's lightspeed+, Star-level paradox kicks going around vs, but I guess I just don't like the hassle of arguing for something as abstract and hypy as MB. I'll change that sometime.


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 24, 2015)

Alucardemi said:


> Truth be told, I'd love to finally argue for a MB character in the Vs forum, so I guess I'll drop the issue since it's relatively irrelevant. I mean, I'd love to see Zenkichi's lightspeed+, Star-level paradox kicks going around vs, but I guess I just don't like the hassle of arguing for something as abstract and hypy as MB. I'll change that sometime.



Actually it goes without saying that the Contradictory Conjunction users are above Ajimu. So at the very least they can damage people at that level even if they can't output that much DC themselves.


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 24, 2015)

But then again, mindset plays a huge factor into that.


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## Alucardemi (Jan 24, 2015)

Freddie Mercury said:


> But then again, mindset plays a huge factor into that.



Yeah, Contradictory Conjunction would be a hassle to argue for, because for it to work 100%, several requirements have to be met.

Even if you don't understand the opponent's feelings, you can still use CC to an extent, at the very least defensively.
After all, Yuzuhira could fight Shirahiiko for a while before CC stopped working. Nienami could tank Shirahiiko's Air Weapon without injury when it fucked-up Kumagawa. And they both didn't have any understanding of their opponent's feelings, although Nienami knows how styles are supposed to work.

Honestly, think about what a hassle that argument would be. If you put Zenkichi in a Vs thread, it would basically be about whether or not he could understand his opponent in time before his CC stopped working at least defensively.

Then the argument wouldn't really be about feats of power, and you'd have to present all of Zenkichi's feats of communication, feelings and understanding styles.
And is that really a subject matter that would be easily tossed around in a Vs forum? Whether my character would be able to get your character or not.

So really, it's best to stick to characters like Ajimu, who are far more straightforwards in Vs, although she'd be weaker in power.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jan 24, 2015)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> We already went over that in the Sol VS Ragna thread. It's a gag feat done by a lower tier character, it's in the same boat as Chie's galactic punt. Slayer's is legit since it was done by a top tier and thus is not an outlier.
> 
> As much as I would love for my precious squirrel to be a moonbuster....



Sounds like some BS double standards, but... whatever. 
Oh whelp.


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## Qinglong (Jan 24, 2015)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Sounds like some BS double standards, but... whatever.
> Oh whelp.



The only characters with confirmed Astrals were Ragna, Jin, Noel, Nu, Hazama, Hakumen, Rachel, and probably Tsubasa/Izayoi


so, blame Mori


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 24, 2015)

BS double standard my ass

Makoto being moon level would make no fucking sense in the grand scheme of BB's power hierarchy


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 24, 2015)

IIRC only certain characters were the only ones with canon Astrals

Everyone else was like shits and giggles


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 24, 2015)

Not like it matters here anyway since IK's are super canon due to the Drama CD's


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 24, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> BS double standard my ass
> 
> Makoto being moon level would make no fucking sense in the grand scheme of BB's power hierarchy



There's that too, she'd be sucker punching virtually every character

And even characters who are top tier don't even establish a fraction of even half the shit most Guilty Gear characters can do


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 24, 2015)

Alucardemi said:


> Yeah, Contradictory Conjunction would be a hassle to argue for, because for it to work 100%, several requirements have to be met.
> 
> Even if you don't understand the opponent's feelings, you can still use CC to an extent, at the very least defensively.
> After all, Yuzuhira could fight Shirahiiko for a while before CC stopped working. Nienami could tank Shirahiiko's Air Weapon without injury when it fucked-up Kumagawa. And they both didn't have any understanding of their opponent's feelings, although Nienami knows how styles are supposed to work.
> ...



Actually when i was referring to mindset, i meant the whole deal about frenzied characters being immune to styles. For example that would imply that Zenkichi could stomp Frieza, but at the same time get stomped by someone like Guts from Berserk.


It's just that wonky.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 24, 2015)

Its kinda bad cuz if you really wanted to invest looking for BB feats, you'd 9/10 find shit against the character than for them, and not simply outliers, I mean really legit shit cuz the story basically shits on the cast unless Deus Ex Machina happens (hello Idea Engine)

You'd be lucky to find something good


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jan 24, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> BS double standard my ass
> 
> Makoto being moon level would make no fucking sense in the grand scheme of BB's power hierarchy



I said "it sounds like".


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 24, 2015)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> I said "it sounds like".


I know what you said

It's still retarded


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## Alucardemi (Jan 24, 2015)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Actually when i was referring to mindset, i meant the whole deal about frenzied characters being immune to styles. For example that would imply that Zenkichi could stomp Frieza, but at the same time get stomped by someone like Guts from Berserk.
> 
> 
> It's just that wonky.



That makes more sense. And its also true. Styles do have that weakness.

Well, regardless, back to the thread at hand, I think I've derailed it enough.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jan 24, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> I know what you said
> 
> It's still retarded


His wording just rubbed me the wrong way.
Since it's not like top tier feats weren't also scrutinized for being potential outliers in the past.
But then again, the obd as a whole is getting more open and linient, if i may say, regarding feats as time goes by.


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## Alucardemi (Jan 24, 2015)

So anyways, I have a question.

Say that Ajimu managed to kill Sol, and he used his ability to stop erasing from existance. What would happen if Ajimu countered that with [Live Zero], and negated that power? Could she even do that?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 24, 2015)

Unless Live zero has shown feats for that sort of thing, then Sol would manage to come back ( by this I mean who's the strongest person it's worked on, if she's used it at all?)

There's also the part where Sol has at least Star level regen due to taking a serious slayer's punches back in his canon route in accent core, apart from the aforementioned microverse feat in Xrd.


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 24, 2015)

Alucardemi said:


> So anyways, I have a question.
> 
> Say that Ajimu managed to kill Sol, and he used his ability to stop erasing from existance. What would happen if Ajimu countered that with [Live Zero], and negated that power? Could she even do that?



Live Zero only nullify skills, and i'm not exactly sure how equalization would work with those and whatever the hell they do in GG.

And also what Robert said, Live Zero was only mentioned to nullify Medaka's strength, who is moon level at best.


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## Alucardemi (Jan 24, 2015)

Yeah, I was wondering about equalization between Skills and other series's powers.

However, the Medaka argument works.


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## shade0180 (Jan 24, 2015)

basically this is a stalemate unless one or the other can permanently kill each other.??


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 24, 2015)

Or Sol can just burn his Jinki and place Ajimu in a timestop

though that takes a bit of prep IIRC

In a straight up Firepower contest, both of them have got enough juice to fuck each other's shit up

Sol has the benefit of absolutely monstrous regen and the fact that he's pmuch inmune to every type of hax out there.

Ajimu has the benefit of being an absolute pain in the ass to put down unless you have some sort of esoteric ability like completely annihilating her soul, or you just came out of a school supply store with a pack of rubber bands


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jan 24, 2015)

Considering he tanked the Backyard's assault on his mind and his soul after getting accustomed to it, stripping his conscience away is a negative, ghost rider.


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## Qinglong (Jan 24, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Or Sol can just burn his Jinki and place Ajimu in a timestop
> 
> though that takes a bit of prep IIRC



It takes a bit of prep for Ky because lolKy

Sol shouldn't have that problem

that or the whole "had to burn out his weapon to do it" part


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## willyvereb (Jan 24, 2015)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Actually all it says is that you have no idea what you are talking about. The soul fucking was a side effect of his ability, not the main point.
> 
> And again, Iihiko himself confirmed that Ajimu could return so it's a  moot point.


You say the soulfuckery was a side effect, so what?
How the hell does this support anything here.
Really now, your claim and what you tell me don't mash together at all.
Learn how to construct a comprehensive argument for starters.
I'd also like to say that you should really learn to use apostrophes when calling a character "omniscient", especially Ajimo.

Anyways, traveling back in time  against Backyard BS is useless, if it weren't then That Man would've saved Aria ages ago.
And you still haven't provided anything to support Ajimu can survive having both her body and soul eliminated.
Neither that she has anything to compete with the mind and soul attacks GG is capable of.
So yeah, from the looks of things she'd just get one-shotted and practically none of her bullshit would work.


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## Sablés (Jan 24, 2015)

And the Ad Homs fly

good grief.


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## Freddy Mercury (Jan 24, 2015)

willyvereb said:


> So?
> You do know that conceptual and soul-effecting attacks also tend to do that if they don't kill, right? We are pretty much talking about something like the issue with the chicken and the egg.
> It's rather amazing this is the third time you bring it up and have yet to realize this.



Willy, do you believe that soul fucking and reality warping are the same thing. Please answer honestly because i really want to know what the hell you are thinking of as you state that before i continue to debate this with you. Because right now i'm thinking this is a lost cause.




> My bad, I could swear I read it as such.
> And at least make sure to come clean before insulting somebody else's ability to read.
> I can understand you wanted to turn my style against me but a bad attempt only results in a barrel of laughs and irony.
> Like right now.



Come clean about what? You are the one who is putting words into my mouth. I'm seriously wondering now if you are even reading the arguments in this thread.



> That's nice and all but even if she could (which is questionable given the Backyard's nature), it seems to be taking too much time to be really a factor for this battle.
> *And most likely she can only return because Illhiko got beaten* and/or he was doing a lousy job.



*NO SHIT!* Didn't i just state that the only reason she couldn't return is because Iihiko's ability makes it impossible to heal his damage until he was killed?  The lousy job comment. yeah, i'm not even gonna waste my time on that.


And since you apparently didn't read when i said it before, i guess i'll tell you once again that Iihiko himself said that she could return once he was dead and Irreversible Destroyer was nullified

In fact i'll show you




Want to see when Medaka said they was still alive?







> It isn't my fault Freddie that you can't read.



I should be saying that.



> Really, stop playing dense.



I read that already. You do know that Ajimu is not only 1/10th of the world's population, but can also control several versions of herself in different timelines and dimensions at the same time? Yeah, i think you should take note of that.


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