# Current Akainu vs. Prime Rayleigh



## Vengeance (Dec 17, 2014)

Location: Punk Hazard
Distance: 30 m
Restrictions: None
Character state of mind: Bloodlusted


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## TheWiggian (Dec 17, 2014)

Prime Ray high high - extreme diff.


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## Ruse (Dec 17, 2014)

Prime Ray >= Shanks >= Akainu IMO

So Ray high diffs.


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## Orca (Dec 17, 2014)

Ray high diff or extreme diff.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 17, 2014)

Either way, extreme diff


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## Amol (Dec 17, 2014)

Akainu first have to prove me that
he is even on Old WB's level(He may
have reached to Old WB level over
time skip but who knows).
Prime Ray is faster, healthier and
more lethal than Old WB.
Prime Ray wins with High(mid) diff .
Currently no one is stronger than
Legends.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 17, 2014)

We don't know Akainu's full extent of power.

He held himself against a bloodlusted WB and was able to comeback 70% recovered.

The old gen is pretty overrated beside WB/Roger


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## Daisuke Jigen (Dec 17, 2014)

Until Oda shows me otherwise, Prime Rayleigh > or >= anyone currently alive.


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## Lance (Dec 17, 2014)

Given that despite being a infamous right hand man of Gol D. Roger, after all those years he is still alive and kicking.
Can go toe to toe with Kizaru in his old age.

I say Rayleigh wins this.


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## Amol (Dec 17, 2014)

This guy at old age after 20 years of retirement and who hadn't touched his sword for decades equally matched Kizaru .
Kizaru as Part of C3 close to Akainu.
Oda went out of his way to show how strong friend he was.
There wasn't any need of 'not touched Sword for decade' line except to show how strong  Prime Rayleigh was.
He has better feats, portrayal and hype than anyone in current generation.


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## tanman (Dec 17, 2014)

Unless Akainu got stronger, Rayleigh wins.


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## Magentabeard (Dec 17, 2014)

Unless you think old sick dying injured Whitebeard can toss Prime Rayleigh out like trash, Prime Rayleigh wins this.


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## Kaiser (Dec 17, 2014)

Rayleigh high difficulty


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## Bohemian Knight (Dec 17, 2014)

I got my boy Ray in this one. Stalemating Kizaru in his old age and my affinity for alcoholics with fantastic beards gives him the slight edge here. Maybe if Akainu hung around with a cool guy like Ray at the bars more often, he'd learn how to put that magma fist to better use.


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## Dunno (Dec 17, 2014)

Rayleigh high diff. Maybe even lower end.


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## Gohara (Dec 17, 2014)

Rayleigh wins with high to extremely high difficulty, IMO.


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## Lycka (Dec 17, 2014)

An old withered 20 years retired AKAINU couldn't DREAM  of stalemating his fellow admirals.


Prime Ray high mid difficulty.


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## Pirao (Dec 17, 2014)

Unless Akainu got stronger and is now Prime Garp level, gotta go with Rayleigh. I see Garp and Rayleigh as the next level down from Roger/WB, but pretty close to them, so noone alive can beat them unless they have got power ups during the TS (which considering Akainu's future role, is definitely not out of the question).


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## ShadowReaper (Dec 17, 2014)

Prime Raileigh has an edge, but by the EoS Akainu would be pretty much close to the level of prime WB and prime Roger and equal to EoS Teach and Luffy.


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## Luke (Dec 17, 2014)

Rayleigh wins with extreme difficulty.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 17, 2014)

Wow. Mid gen is really underrated.

Akainu has FV hype.

And lol @ the assumption that old WB is weaker than Prime Ray, there's no proof to that. Him not fighting for 20 yrs isn't something that proves power, it only means he has tons of experience,


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## trance (Dec 17, 2014)

I don't consider Rayleigh in his strongest incarnation to be any less powerful than Whitebeard in an incarnation far removed from his strongest, especially since Rayleigh shouldn't have been _that_ far off from his captain and Whitebeard at his strongest in the first place.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 17, 2014)

Why not? For all we know Roger and WB was on the league of their own, and the only person said to be near their level was prime Garp.

It's not an underestimation to say that you're a step below your captain. I believe Zoro will be a step below Luffy because because of their benchmarks, considering BB would shit on anybody with his power by the time his duel with Luffy is near. So there's nothing wrong to think Prime Ray is also a step below his Captain and WB.

Personally I view it like this.

WB/Roger- 100
Prime Garp- 97
Prime Ray- 93-95
This gen's heavyweights- 90-96


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## trance (Dec 17, 2014)

I only consider prime Rayleigh a shade weaker than prime Garp, who I consider just a shade weaker than prime Whitebeard/Roger. Enough to give the likes of his captain a very intense fight, even though he'd lose 10 times out of 10.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 17, 2014)

We share the same belief about him giving Roger high diff but conclusively lose 10/10


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## trance (Dec 17, 2014)

Which is more than I can say for the likes of Shanks/Akainu, honestly.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 17, 2014)

I believe Shanks/Akainu can also give Roger a high diff fight.. It's not impossible.

Mid gen ain't that weakshit, they also present a challenge for Luffy


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## trance (Dec 17, 2014)

I'd say solid mid difficulty, which is still pretty respectable. 

The middle generation has a lot of top tiers, which makes up for them not having absolute strongest like WB/Roger or Teach/Luffy.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 17, 2014)

Well, I stand my ground until proven otherwise


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## Lycka (Dec 17, 2014)

It is you just don't read the manga


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## Jagger (Dec 17, 2014)

Either way, it's an extreme difficulty fight.

I don't see Akainu being that weaker considering he possess the necessary qualities to be Luffy's final opponent (even when I think it's going to be Blackbeard), so I don't think he might be that behind of Rayleigh.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 17, 2014)

I read One Piece, not ZoroXMihawk Yaoi. We read different mangoes bro


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## Sherlōck (Dec 17, 2014)

Akainu High difficulty.


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## tanman (Dec 17, 2014)

My thing with Akainu is that I want the World Government to be the final villain, not Blackbeard, because that's what WB prophesied. However, Oda has clearly established Akainu as someone who isn't at the absolute top. So for my FV dreams to come true, either Akainu has to get stronger or someone else in the WG has to take the FV mantle.


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## StrawHat4Life (Dec 17, 2014)

The final war doesn't have to mean the final battle.


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## tanman (Dec 17, 2014)

I don't follow.


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## StrawHat4Life (Dec 17, 2014)

Whatever goes down between Luffy and the WG could very well happen before the final fight on Raftel.


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## Harard (Dec 17, 2014)

It could go either way.

Rayleigh is not Roger or Whitebeard.


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## tanman (Dec 17, 2014)

StrawHat4Life said:


> Whatever goes down between Luffy and the WG could very well happen before the final fight on Raftel.



I was thinking of this



> Whitebeard: Sengoku... You people of the World Government... / ...are living in fear... of that great battle that will someday engulf the entire world!!! // Though it has nothing to do with me... when somebody finally finds that treasure...... // ...the world will be turned upside down......!! // Oh yes, it will be found. / That day will come, without a doubt...



The way he phrased that, I just felt like he was saying that the final war against the world government would occur after One Piece is found.


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## Lycka (Dec 17, 2014)

Battousai said:


> I read One Piece, not ZoroXMihawk Yaoi. We read different *mangoes* bro



So I was right, you don't read the manga.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 17, 2014)

lol, 2 yrs and you don't know terms.


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## barreltheif (Dec 18, 2014)

tanman said:


> The way he phrased that, I just felt like he was saying that the final war against the world government would occur after One Piece is found.




I think you're misunderstanding the quote. WB doesn't mention a war with the World Government. He says that the World Government is afraid of the coming war.




Battousai said:


> Why not? For all we know Roger and WB was on the league of their own, and the only person said to be near their level was prime Garp.
> 
> It's not an underestimation to say that you're a step below your captain.* I believe Zoro will be a step below Luffy because because of their benchmarks, considering BB would shit on anybody with his power by the time his duel with Luffy is near.* So there's nothing wrong to think Prime Ray is also a step below his Captain and WB.
> 
> ...




This is bad reasoning. The gap between Luffy's opponent and Zoro's opponent is always, always bigger than the gap between Luffy and Zoro. Rayleigh was weaker than Roger, but there's no reason to put him below Garp, let alone in the middle of mid generation. That's some serious downplaying.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 18, 2014)

Garp was proven to match Roger at some point, Rayleigh never had such hype. Him being the former WSS is just an assumption from fans. There's no downplaying there.


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## Amol (Dec 18, 2014)

Garp was stronger than Rayleigh .
He was the closest person to Roger/WB.


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## Dunno (Dec 18, 2014)

Amol said:


> Garp was stronger than Rayleigh .
> He was the closest person to Roger/WB.



Then why was Garp and Rayleigh on the same level after 20 years, even though Garp stayed active chasing pirates while Rayleigh took it easy and drank spirits?  

If Garp was stronger than Rayleigh during their prime and Garp took better care of his body, wouldn't he be much stronger than Rayleigh after 20 years? As it stands, we don't even know if he's stronger at all.


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## Ghost (Dec 18, 2014)

Akainu wins extreme diff.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 18, 2014)

Did Garp even fight strong guys?

And I don't get the no fight in 20 yrs topic. He still had tons of experience, Garp wasn't even trying in those 20 years, all he was doing making a fool out of Sengoku


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## Amol (Dec 18, 2014)

Dunno said:


> *Then why was Garp and Rayleigh on the same level after 20 years*, even though Garp stayed active chasing pirates while Rayleigh took it easy and drank spirits?
> 
> If Garp was stronger than Rayleigh during their prime and Garp took better care of his body, wouldn't he be much stronger than Rayleigh after 20 years? As it stands, we don't even know if he's stronger at all.


Baseless assumption on your part .
We only saw Old Garp fighting against Marco in whole war and Garp looked superior to him.
So I have no idea how you managed to conclude that Garp and Ray were on same level.
And when I say Prime Garp is stronger than Prime Ray doesn't mean he is stronger by whole tier .
They are in same ballpark.
And how strong one was in their old age bears no relation to how strong one was in Prime . Like age for reaching to prime is different for anyone , age of declination is also different for everyone.
Luffy will reach to his Prime in his twenties while Akainu who is close to sixties still gaining power(i.e., reaching to Prime) when he should actually start loosing strength.


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## trance (Dec 18, 2014)

After 22 years of being out of shape, Rayleigh fought on completely comparable terms with Kizaru - not demonstrating any less strength or speed - and had it not been for his diminished stamina, would've filled every credential to stand as Kizaru's equal. 

Garp compared him to Whitebeard in his old age in terms of threat potential. His only frame of reference would be Rayleigh in his prime. For Rayleigh in his prime to be more or less on equal terms with Whitebeard in his old age would be quite rational and sensible.


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## Orca (Dec 18, 2014)

There is no proof of Rayleigh being weaker than Prime Garp. 



Trance said:


> I'd say solid mid difficulty, which is still pretty respectable.
> 
> The middle generation has a lot of top tiers, which makes up for them not having absolute strongest like WB/Roger or Teach/Luffy.



So you still think two fujis can beat Roger even though by your diffs, Fuji would probably get low diffed or borderline mid diffed. Unless you think Fuji can push Shanks/Akainu to extreme diff.


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## Freechoice (Dec 18, 2014)

Garp wasn't merely the closest person to Roger and WB

It's Roger/WB/Garp

Not Roger/WB and Garp a little behind

Jeez, what is this shit. I'm very disappointed.

How much closer in strength can two people get than nearly killing each other multiple times.

That comes straight from the PK himself too, not some dumbass clown.

though they were both from Oda technically but fuck logic up the butt

friend he's the _Marine King_ don't fuck with him he'll slap you silly with his knuckle hair.





This post is brought to you by purely unbiased opinion.


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## trance (Dec 18, 2014)

Luffee said:


> So you still think two fujis can beat Roger even though by your diffs, Fuji would probably get low diffed or borderline mid diffed. Unless you think Fuji can push Shanks/Akainu to extreme diff.



I think the latter. I think that Issho could push the likes of Shanks and Akainu to extreme difficulty but I also think those two and Borsalino have grown stronger over the timeskip.


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## tanman (Dec 18, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> I think you're misunderstanding the quote. WB doesn't mention a war with the World Government. He says that the World Government is afraid of the coming war.



I don't know what you mean.
Are you saying that the war engulfing the entire world is not a war involving the world government?


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Dec 18, 2014)

Rayleigh aint weaker than Garp

Zoro is to Rayleigh what Smoker is to Garp
Zoro is stronger than Smoker


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## Freechoice (Dec 19, 2014)

I      win


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## jNdee~ (Dec 19, 2014)

The thing is, Garp has evidence to his hype, Rayleigh on the other hand has no scaling other than being Roger's Vice captain. It is more logical to think Garp was stronger than Rayleigh.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 19, 2014)

Battousai said:


> The thing is, Garp has evidence to his hype, Rayleigh on the other hand has no scaling other than being Roger's Vice captain. It is more logical to think Garp was stronger than Rayleigh.



Ray got the hype of being Rogers partner. Roger saw Rayleigh as his equal.


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## Extravlad (Dec 19, 2014)

Weekly Rayleigh wank thread.
Old WB > Prime Garp > Akainu > Prime Rayleigh = Mihawk > Shanks.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 19, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> Ray got the hype of being Rogers partner. Roger saw Rayleigh as his equal.



Well, maybe they were equal when they meet. But other than that, we can't scale him


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## Luke (Dec 19, 2014)

Trance said:


> I think that Issho could push the likes of Shanks and Akainu to extreme difficulty .



Trance, what is this garbage


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## jNdee~ (Dec 19, 2014)

Starkiller


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## Freechoice (Dec 19, 2014)

Thanks             bro


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## Elite Uchiha (Dec 19, 2014)

People really do overrate the old gen


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## barreltheif (Dec 19, 2014)

tanman said:


> I don't know what you mean.
> Are you saying that the war engulfing the entire world is not a war involving the world government?




I don't think that Luffy's main opponents in the final war will be the WG, no.




lol said:


> Garp wasn't the closest person to Roger and WB




You're probably right, prime Rayleigh was most likely stronger than Garp, but they certainly would've been pretty close.




> It's Roger/WB/Garp
> Not Roger/WB and Garp a little behind
> Jeez, what is this shit. I'm very disappointed.
> How much closer in strength can two people get than nearly killing each other multiple times.




Smoker, Buggy, Lucci, and Croc have nearly killed Luffy multiple times. They're not going to be PK level.
"Whitebeard...the *only *man who ever fought equally with the pirate king."


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## jNdee~ (Dec 19, 2014)

lol, Garp constantly sought Roger, If he's weak as fuck, he should've been dead by now considering Roger's violent nature. Marines are really underrated as fuck.


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## Lycka (Dec 19, 2014)

Akainu won't be stronger than Prime Raleigh/Mihawk


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## Krippy (Dec 19, 2014)

His old version clashed evenly with a person on Akainu's level. His prime version takes this.


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## barreltheif (Dec 19, 2014)

Battousai said:


> lol, Garp constantly sought Roger, If he's weak as fuck, he should've been dead by now considering Roger's violent nature. Marines are really underrated as fuck.




Why would anyone think Garp is weak? He's probably one of the top 3-5 strongest people of all time, and stronger than anyone alive.


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## Lycka (Dec 19, 2014)

Yes, old garp was still portrayed above Akainu and all other admirals.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 19, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> Why would anyone think Garp is weak? He's probably one of the top 3-5 strongest people of all time, and stronger than anyone alive.



People thinks Rayleigh was stronger than him. 

And lol at Garp being above the current Admirals.


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## barreltheif (Dec 19, 2014)

Battousai said:


> People thinks Rayleigh was stronger than him.
> 
> And lol at Garp being above the current Admirals.




I'm not really following. Prime Rayleigh being on par with prime Garp is a reasonable possibility. So is prime Garp being stronger than the admirals. I'd be pretty surprised if prime Garp isn't stronger than Fujitora. First you say that Garp is underrated, and then you say that the idea of him being stronger than the current admirals is laughable?


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## Elite Uchiha (Dec 19, 2014)

Akainu = Prime Ray = Shanks

Prime WB = Roger = Prime Dragon => Prime Garp

Mid gen is just as strong as the old gen


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Dec 19, 2014)

Akainu vs Mihawk thread in disguise 

If we use Rayleigh people suddenly agree that WSS > Akainu


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## jNdee~ (Dec 20, 2014)

Because of his old age of course. Prime Garp would be a different conversation. I'm not disputing the possibility of him being weaker than Prime Rayleigh, but it his highly unlikely. As I've said, Garp has hype of fighting Roger on equal grounds, Rayleigh's only hype is that he was Roger's vice captain. I'm not saying it's not enough hype to consider as monstrous as fuck, but definitely not enough for me to believe he's stronger than Prime Garp.


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## Lycka (Dec 20, 2014)

jNdee~ said:


> Because of his old age of course. Prime Garp would be a different conversation. I'm not disputing the possibility of him being weaker than Prime Rayleigh, but it his highly unlikely. As I've said, Garp has hype of fighting Roger on equal grounds, Rayleigh's only hype is that he was Roger's vice captain. I'm not saying it's not enough hype to consider as monstrous as fuck, but definitely not enough for me to believe he's stronger than Prime Garp.



Even if he's not he's still a whole tier above Akainu


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## jNdee~ (Dec 20, 2014)




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## Dellinger (Dec 20, 2014)

Kizaru went out of his way and just relied to his swordsmanship against Rayleigh.He didn't rely on his raw offensive power.


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## Firo (Dec 20, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> Kizaru went out of his way and just relied to his swordsmanship against Rayleigh.He didn't rely on his raw offensive power.



Yeah and?               .


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## Suit (Dec 20, 2014)

Magentabeard said:


> Unless you think old sick dying injured Whitebeard can toss Prime Rayleigh out like trash, Prime Rayleigh wins this.



I'm going to second this.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 20, 2014)

WB didn't throw Akainu around like trash


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## Suit (Dec 20, 2014)

Relatively speaking, he totally did. By that, I mean that no matter how you describe it, prime Rayleigh isn't getting the same treatment from old, dying Whitebeard that Sakazuki got.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Dec 20, 2014)




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## Suit (Dec 20, 2014)

Predictable response made out of sheer mindless admiration of a character that you like so much.

Particularly sad when considering that your opinion on who would win is the same as mine. Unless your opinion has changed since your first post in the thread on the first page.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 20, 2014)

No. Seriously, he didn't get tossed around. They were fighting on equal grounds, Akainu got the upper hand, WB cameback and ended the skirmish. WB, had his last legit fight, and Akainu recovered a few moments later.

That's not what you getting tossed around.


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## Suit (Dec 20, 2014)

Missed the entire fucking point. You're like Flow when he gets on his SJW horse dressed in shining armor.

The point is that prime Rayleigh isn't getting the Sakazuki treatment, period.

If you're still upset about me agreeing that Sakazuki was "tossed around," then just stay mad, because I'm not taking it back.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 20, 2014)

Not really mad.

and I just voice about my opinion about it, and you said he totally did. I had to voice out another opinion. I got the point of your argument, I just pointed out the other thing.


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## Datassassin (Dec 21, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> Kizaru went out of his way and just relied to his swordsmanship against Rayleigh.He didn't rely on his raw offensive power.


In the only two instances in the story where Kizaru has been genuinely pressured, he has whipped out that sword. Both instances were against CQC specialists and simply firing lasers at them and hoping his arm would be enough to stop Rayleigh's/Zephyr's attacks likely would have not be smart. I don't see any reason to believe that Kizaru shifting into a sword mode makes him weaker, rather it seems like his best option when facing strong CQC fighters. The only reason Kizaru likely didn't form a sword for WB is because he was toying with the old/sick/injured man; Kizaru had mostly casual demeanor during their interactions, injured WB more than once and left their encounters without a scratch. He wasn't being pressured like he was against Rayleigh or Zephyr.


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## barreltheif (Dec 21, 2014)

I agree that prime Rayleigh is stronger than Akainu and would do better against WB. But pretending like Akainu did badly against WB and ignoring the fact that he inflicted fatal damage to WB is simply disingenuous.


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## Suit (Dec 21, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> I agree that prime Rayleigh is stronger than Akainu and would do better against WB. But pretending like Akainu did badly against WB and ignoring the fact that he inflicted fatal damage to WB is simply disingenuous.



The mature way to state your opinion. Some could very well learn from you instead of posting manga panels that they furiously masturbate to.


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## Elite Uchiha (Dec 21, 2014)

Extreme difficulty either way considering I hold Prime Ray = Shanks.


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## trance (Dec 21, 2014)

Luke said:


> Trance, what is this garbage





Trance said:


> but I also think those two and Borsalino have grown stronger over the timeskip.



So...

Post-TS Shanks, Akainu and Kizaru are now decisively stronger than Issho.


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## maupp (Dec 24, 2014)

What with all this Garp under estimation. Garp was equal to Roger as stated by the man himself(nearly killing each other countless times doesn't happen between people on different level). 

I'm surprise how people land more credibility to a statement made by Buggy over Roger's one. This is truly and absolutely mental from this place. 

Saying Rei is stronger than Garp or equal is lunacy for the single fact that Garp was not inferior but equal to Roger. This isn't some fan made assumption or a subjective opinion of mine but rather a fact straight out of the manga.    

And as for the topic, Rei wins. We've seen how age affect characters in OP(the latest example is DcJ) and in spite of his old age Rei managed to stalemate with Kizaru after 20 years of retirement. 

Prime Rei should be able to defeat Akainu hiff diff until we see what this guy can do after the time skip. But lol at those mid diff arguments some people are bringing up .


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## Luke (Dec 24, 2014)

Trance said:


> So...
> 
> Post-TS Shanks, Akainu and Kizaru are now decisively stronger than Issho.



Shanks and Akainu? Um, yes they are  Fujitora does not have near the portrayal or hype these two have. 

Never said anything about Kizaru. I'd say Kizaru is only slightly stronger than Fujitora. But again, Kizaru isn't even as hyped as Shanks/Akainu, likely the two strongest people in the world right now.


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## trance (Dec 24, 2014)

I don't see Issho being any weaker than Akainu in his pre-TS incarnation. The Marines are stronger than ever before. Admirals are _the_ best combatants the Marines have to offer - bar rare exceptions - and are often relied upon quite heavily; so it's reasonable to assume each represents a sizeable fraction of the Marines' general strength. I would place the likes of pre-TS Sakazuki very slightly above Issho but for all intents and purposes, I rank them as roughly equal.


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## Luke (Dec 24, 2014)

Trance said:


> I don't see Issho being any weaker than Akainu in his pre-TS incarnation. The Marines are stronger than ever before. Admirals are _the_ best combatants the Marines have to offer - bar rare exceptions - and are often relied upon quite heavily; so it's reasonable to assume each represents a sizeable fraction of the Marines' general strength. I would place the likes of pre-TS Sakazuki very slightly above Issho but for all intents and purposes, I rank them as roughly equal.



On what basis? Fujitora obviously isn't a lot weaker than Akainu, but there is a clear difference. The Marines being extremely strong right now shouldn't require every single Admiral to be nigh equal to Akainu, who might be the final villain of the series. That's kinda absurd. 

Akainu's portrayal, feats, and overall story significance are more than enough to put him above Fujitora without requiring extreme difficulty to beat him.


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## trance (Dec 24, 2014)

If they're weaker than Akainu in his pre-TS incarnation, then that would mean the Marines' managed to not only compensate but grow more powerful despite major losses some other way. Now, that _could_ entail fuckers like the Vice Admirals and Rear Admirals finally stepping up to the plate but that seems like a stretch - given their portrayal so far since the timeskip have been pretty pitiful -  so IMO, it's more sensible to conclude the Admirals are stronger than from two years ago.


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## Luke (Dec 24, 2014)

Trance said:


> If they're weaker than Akainu in his pre-TS incarnation, then that would mean the Marines' managed to not only compensate but grow more powerful despite major losses some other way. Now, that _could_ entail fuckers like the Vice Admirals and Rear Admirals finally stepping up to the plate but that seems like a stretch - given their portrayal so far since the timeskip have been pretty pitiful -  so IMO, it's more sensible to conclude the Admirals are stronger than from two years ago.



Maynard was likely the weakest VA, and Bastille could have been as strong as Sanji for all we know, given he was decimated by the equivalent of a Yonkou first mate. Guys like Doberman, John Giant, Onigumo, Yamakaji, Strawberry, and Momonga don't seem like they'll be a joke.

Fujitora does not have anything to back up putting him so high besides beating Sabo in a short skirmish (which Kizaru should be more than capable of doing) and having the title of Admiral.


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## trance (Dec 24, 2014)

Luke said:


> Maynard was likely the weakest VA, and Bastille could have been as strong as Sanji for all we know, given he was decimated by the equivalent of a Yonkou first mate. Guys like Doberman, John Giant, Onigumo, Yamakaji, Strawberry, and Momonga don't seem like they'll be a joke.



I'm not dismissing the possibility but I just don't have much hope for it. 



> Fujitora does not have anything to back up putting him so high besides beating Sabo in a short skirmish (which Kizaru should be more than capable of doing) and having the title of Admiral.



I don't see anything pre-TS Sakazuki has done that Issho couldn't replicate - albeit with maybe slightly more difficulty. 

I feel if pre-TS Sakazuki can high diff Issho than since I think post-TS Sakazuki is stronger, he would need even less difficulty and I laugh at the likelihood of current Sakazuki needing anything less than high or very high difficulty to beat Issho.


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## Luke (Dec 24, 2014)

Trance said:


> I'm not dismissing the possibility but I just don't have much hope for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure Oda's been saving those guys for a reason. 

I agree Post-TS Sakazuki is stronger than Pre-TS Sakazuki, but not by enough where he'd go from high diffing an Admiral to mid diffing one. That's too big of a power up for a guy who's already in his prime. And besides, if you think Issho is nigh equal to Akainu, he'd push him as far (or farther than) Aokiji did, which was the most extreme of extreme difficulties.


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## trance (Dec 24, 2014)

Luke said:


> I'm pretty sure Oda's been saving those guys for a reason.



Yea, for them to be hype tools. 



> And besides, if you think Issho is nigh equal to Akainu, he'd push him as far (or farther than) Aokiji did, which was the most extreme of extreme difficulties.



Maybe not quite that far but if that fight was the absolute highest bracket of "extreme difficulty" then I can see Issho pushing pre-TS Sakazuki to the lower or middle bracket of "extreme difficulty" same as for Kizaru.


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