# Infested Kerrigan vs Archangel Tyrael



## Rivers (Mar 12, 2013)

​
Flagship characters from Blizzard's two franchises fight it out...who prevails?

*Location:* Planet Char
*Starting Distance:* 200 meters 
*SOM:* IC, and willing to kill

_Scenario1:_ 1vs1.
_Scenario2:_ Kerrigan commands 1 Hive worth of Zerg to fight. Tyrael gets Imperius to help (if a stomp against Archangels, add the rest of the Angiris Council).


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## Eldritch Sukima (Mar 12, 2013)

How is Tyrael doing in the speed and mindfuck resistance departments?

Those are probably the most important things.


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## Bioness (Mar 12, 2013)

The only problem is that Kerrigan would have no means to permanently kill of Tyreal. Oh the other hand she seems vastly superior in raw stats and abilities.

I do not believe Tyreal has any mental resistance feats as the Demons seem to either possess or "infect" Angels while only taking control of humans and lesser beings.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Mar 12, 2013)

Bioness said:


> The only problem is that Kerrigan would have no means to permanently kill of Tyreal. Oh the other hand she seems vastly superior in raw stats and abilities.
> 
> *I do not believe Tyreal has any mental resistance feats* as the Demons seem to either possess or "infect" Angels while only taking control of humans and lesser beings.



Then he's screwed, immortal or otherwise.

The only way around this would be having enough speed to blitz Kerrigan before she can destroy his mind, but if she's superior in stats that isn't going to happen. Her mind is a lot faster than her body, too, considering it operates at light speed.


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## Rivers (Mar 12, 2013)

The Prime Evils influence/corrupt the populace all the time. Mephisto who was trapped in his Soul Stone in the city of Kurast, could still corrupt the entire Templar populace in charge of guarding him, and these Knights would be more of the righteously trained of peoples and fiercely against the influence of Demons.

Notable humans/heroes have shown to resist the Prime Evils' will for quite some time even when the Soul Stone that contained them was jammed right into the person's body.  

Angels who are considered more spiritual beings to humans would not be swayed by the Prime Evil's influence as effectively, and is probably why they are physically tortured for many centuries before their mind/will breaks and they eventually become demonic/corrupted.

Tyrael as an Archangel and the embodiment of Justice for the entire society of Angels would have even greater will and power, which is why he would be one of the few who can fight a Prime Evil directly.


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## Bioness (Mar 12, 2013)

That's nice and all, but no amount of "willpower" will help him here.


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## Rivers (Mar 12, 2013)

Bioness said:


> That's nice and all, but no amount of "willpower" will help him here.



It would be hard-pressed for the Prime Evils to corrupt Tyrael just by staring at him.

Fodder Demons mindfuck humans all the time for fun. Assassin class characters have psychic skills to use in turn against demons, and these two are far below Tyrael's power. 

Why would he not have mindfuck resistance?


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## Eldritch Sukima (Mar 12, 2013)

Rivers said:


> It would be hard-pressed for the Prime Evils to corrupt Tyrael just by staring at him.
> 
> Lesser Demons mindfuck humans all the time for fun.
> 
> Why would he not have mindfuck resistance?



Kerrigan is a monstrously powerful psychic that controls an entire species.

Just having mindfuck resistance of an unquantified level isn't enough here. Tyrael needs some impressive feats to back up the idea that Kerrigan can't destroy his mind with a glance.


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## Poxbox (Mar 12, 2013)

I see two deciding factors here:
Tyrael has some resistance against corruption which can eventually be overcome by the prime evils.
Kerrigan has mental feats that dwarf anything the prime evils ever did.


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## Rivers (Mar 12, 2013)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Tyrael needs some impressive feats to back up the idea that Kerrigan can't destroy his mind with a glance.



Has Kerrigan ever crushed someone's mind with just her psychic powers?


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## Eldritch Sukima (Mar 12, 2013)

Rivers said:


> Has Kerrigan ever crushed someone's mind with just her psychic powers?



She has, actually. She casually destroys a marine's mind on Char:



			
				Queen of Blades said:
			
		

> He started to back away, and his eyes bulged as he stopped, frozen in place. Kerrigan held him there, paralyzed, as she stepped up behind him and rammed her finger-blades through his back, slicing his spine to ribbons. Before his body had toppled she was gone again, moving to the next man, her wings writhing with impatience, every barb angling towards her next target. A single glance fried that trooper?s mind, and she was already looking for a third as he swayed and fell, blood leaking from his eyes and ears.



This is Infested Kerrigan at her weakest, with the psionic inhibitors from the Ghost program still active.

In the same book Zeratul, who's considerably less powerful than Kerrigan, makes a small group of Zerg near him collapse into convulsions just by speaking.


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## Rivers (Mar 12, 2013)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> In the same book Zeratul, who's considerably less powerful than Kerrigan, makes a small group of Zerg near him collapse into convulsions just by speaking.



I didnt follow the Starcraft II storyline carefully but Zeratul is also the one that she fights with in the cinematic for Starcraft II right?

Did she aslo try to crush his mind in their battle?


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## Eldritch Sukima (Mar 12, 2013)

Rivers said:


> I didnt follow the Starcraft II storyline carefully but Zeratul is also the one that she fights with in the cinematic for Starcraft II right?
> 
> Did she aslo try to crush his mind in their battle?



Doesn't seem like it.

Though she most likely could have if she tried, since she's supposed to be the most powerful psionic entity in the universe by the time Wings of Liberty takes place, which would put her above monsters like Ulrezaj.


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## Stermor (Mar 12, 2013)

kinda sucks daiblo takes places on a single world.. while starcraft takes place in a galaxy.. 

anyway tyreal can withstand the most powerful mind rape in diablo.. 

anyway discounting mind rape.. bfr seems like a useful tool.. just drop kerrigan in a pocket dimension of some dead horadrim..


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## Eldritch Sukima (Mar 12, 2013)

Stermor said:


> kinda sucks daiblo takes places on a single world.. while starcraft takes place in a galaxy..
> 
> anyway tyreal can withstand the most powerful mind rape in diablo..
> 
> anyway discounting mind rape.. bfr seems like a useful tool.. just drop kerrigan in a pocket dimension of some dead horadrim..



His physical durability becomes the next most important thing if we discount mindfuck.

Since Kerrigan is at least ten times more powerful than Nova, who produced a telekinetic explosion comparable to a nuke.


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## Rivers (Mar 12, 2013)

Physically he should be comparable to Imperius and Diablo's true form.

Though he did survive the World's Stone's explosion after triggering it near point blank.

But this is in character mindset, so is Kerrigan going to bother with a nova explosion straight off? Would she be using something like that fighting a lone character? Against Zeratul she started with a standard telekinetic hold, which allowed him to get in close and slice her left spines off.


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## Rivers (Mar 12, 2013)

Stermor said:


> kinda sucks daiblo takes places on a single world.. while starcraft takes place in a galaxy..



Sanctuary is on one world, while the Burning Hells and High Heavens are on different plains of the Diabloverse. They also seem to be significantly larger than the World of Sanctuary, since upon its creation Sanctuary was hidden from both the Burning Hells and High Heavens for quite some time; even though the Angels and Demons were actively looking for the World Stone.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Mar 12, 2013)

Rivers said:


> Physically he should be comparable to Imperius and Diablo's true form.
> 
> Though he did survive the World's Stone's explosion after triggering it near point blank.



So what level of durability is that?

I know very little about Diablo, so I can only go by what I'm given here.



> But this is in character mindset, so is Kerrigan going to bother with a nova explosion straight off? Would she using something like that against a single character? Against Zeratul she started with a standard telekinetic hold, which allowed him to get in close and slice her left spines off.



Kerrigan likes melee combat when she's in character, though she mixes in her psionic powers when needed. She fights Tassadar and Zeratul at the same time like this in Queen of Blades:



> He watched as Zeratul and Tassadar faced off against Kerrigan, their psi-blades versus her wings and claws. The two protoss moved together perfectly, each motion complementing the other, their attacks in perfect harmony, a mix of shadows and light, strength and wisdom, knowledge and power. It was a devastating charge, and Raynor knew that few creatures could survive it.
> 
> Kerrigan was one of them.
> 
> ...



To put that into perspective, Tassadar and Zeratul are both capable of moving at least faster than the eye can see. Here's a scuffle between them from earlier in the book:



> “No!” Tassadar stepped back again, then straightened. “I will not listen to this! You shall not corrupt me!” And he struck at Zeratul.
> 
> The blow was so fast Raynor couldn’t see it fully—he saw the protoss leader’s arm slam forward in a blur, fist leveled at the Dark Templar’s chest, but even his armor’s targeting systems couldn’t clarify the image properly. It was simply too quick, too sudden. He thought he felt a rush of air from the punch, even here on his ridge, and he knew that the impact would crush the Praetor’s chest like an eggshell.
> 
> ...





> He attacked again, his moves even faster this time, his strikes more furious. Not once but three times his fists moved, so fast they seemed to punch all at once, in a neat row to the left, to the right, and dead center on the Praetor’s chest. Raynor understood the logic behind it. The Executor was hoping to box his opponent in, hitting to either side to keep him from ducking out of the way again. He was counting on at least one punch landing.
> 
> But none of them did.
> 
> Zeratul moved again, sliding to the left before Tassadar’s first blow landed—a move that somehow did not involve his legs or feet, simply his body’s suddenly appearing two feet from its previous position, as the Executor’s other two strikes passed harmlessly alongside him.



So in character Kerrigan will probably go for melee combat first, and up the ante if that doesn't work.


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## Stermor (Mar 12, 2013)

world stone kinda destroyed a large mountain and neighbouring landscape... 

anyway based on comment from diablo 3 peeps ingame tyreal is more skilled then any human player.. and moving faster then the eye doesn't really seem hard for diablo characters.. but i'm not sure how that is counted.. 

as for the size, yes diablo has multiple large dimensions.. but still shouldn't really compare to a galaxy.. anyway i say we discount mind rape.. since tyreal has shown to be capable of resisting the most powerful one in diablo.. and we really don't know his upper limit.. 

also angels physical form is not really that important(similarly to supernatural angels) but again not sure how to hurt their true form, since only high lvl demons can do that.. but then we see dozen of angels on pikes in heaven..


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## Eldritch Sukima (Mar 12, 2013)

Stermor said:


> world stone kinda destroyed a large mountain and neighbouring landscape...



Is there a cutscene of it or something? Might be quantifiable as a durability feat, assuming he was still in fighting shape after that.



> anyway based on comment from diablo 3 peeps ingame tyreal is more skilled then any human player.. and moving faster then the eye doesn't really seem hard for diablo characters.. but i'm not sure how that is counted..



Faster than the eye isn't all that amazing to Kerrigan either, since she can react to hypersonic gauss rifle spikes at close range. Possibly point blank range too, since Raynor manages to miss despite having his gun pressed against Kerrigan's head when he pulls the trigger.



> anyway i say we discount mind rape.. since tyreal has shown to be capable of resisting the most powerful one in diablo.. and we really don't know his upper limit..



Unless the mind rape in question is comparable to what can Kerrigan can do I don't see why Tyrael should get a free pass in terms of mental defense.


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## Waking Dreamer (Mar 12, 2013)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> So what level of durability is that?
> 
> I know very little about Diablo, so I can only go by what I'm given here.



Worldstone was kept inside Mt. Arreat, after the destruction of the Worldstone it was renamed Arreat crater...so probably a mountain-busting explosion?

Angels actually consist of harmonic energies of Light and Sound, so they dont have organs or any physical substance inside their armour. Blizzard just makes them take the form of Armor because it looks awesome. They would be more like Archons of Harmonic Energy that manifest the appearance of battle Armor.



Eldritch Sukima said:


> I know very little about Diablo, so I can only go by what I'm given here.



*Things to note: *

The 3 Prime Evils before the Diablo games, were usurped by the Lesser Evils and their armies in the Burning Hells. However, the 3 Brothers themselves were able to take down a third of the Demons in the Burning Hells, before finally being defeated and banished to the World of Sanctuary.

No name Demons and Angels dont really compare to Archangels or Prime Evils as a lone Archangel / Prime Evil could take down hundreds of the opposing side single-handedly. Imperius with his Spear of Valor (said to be forged in the heart of a dying Star), was know to have made  all Seven kingdoms of the Burning Hells run with spilled Demon blood.

Not sure yet of this outcome but here is a neat clip of the Angiris Council in action:

[YOUTUBE]LEAPxgMCEA8[/YOUTUBE]

The Angiris Council together could capture Diablo fairly effectively while a lone Council Member (e.g. Imperius) could hang with Diablo but be on the losing side in a direct battle.


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## Nevermind (Mar 12, 2013)

Looks like Kerrigan's got some upgrades after SC 1. 

A mountain busting explosion should be more powerful than the kiloton-type nukes that tend to appear in Starcraft. But I haven't played for a while.

Still, Kerrigan's telepathy is too much.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Mar 12, 2013)

Nevermind said:


> A mountain busting explosion should be more powerful than the kiloton-type nukes that tend to appear in Starcraft. But I haven't played for a while.



Tactical nukes are more like low megatons, from the looks of it. Speed of Darkness has the shock wave of a tactical nuke killing Zerglings several kilometers away from ground zero.

Though to be fair, it's never mentioned what type of nuke would be required to do what Nova did, just that you'd need one to do that kind of damage:



> Mal’s boots crunched as he walked. He double-checked his computer, and was reminded that the Terra Skyscraper’s roof was usually covered by a steel-glass dome—which meant the telekinetic attack destroyed the dome, something that was only physically possible with a nuclear weapon. Mentally possible, though—that covers a much bigger range.



So it doesn't explicitly rule out something in the kiloton range. Kerrigan is stated to exceed any Terran psychic by at least an order of magnitude, so she's ten times this powerful at minimum.

And if we take the statement of Kerrigan being the most powerful psionic entity in the universe at face value, she's also more powerful than .


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## Stermor (Mar 12, 2013)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Is there a cutscene of it or something? Might be quantifiable as a durability feat, assuming he was still in fighting shape after that.



fighting shape not sure, but he was able to return to heaven on its own power??

well i think somewhere it was mentioned the mountain could be seen from 100 kilometers in all directions or something(not sure on this though, though it is clear it was a large mountain) anyway it did not just blow the mountain it also killed most of the lands arround it.. 



Eldritch Sukima said:


> Faster than the eye isn't all that amazing to Kerrigan either, since she can react to hypersonic gauss rifle spikes at close range. Possibly point blank range too, since Raynor manages to miss despite having his gun pressed against Kerrigan's head when he pulls the trigger.



ye you don't really have anything similar in diablo.. you have no real things to calc in speed, but considering regular humans(diablo hero's) can already move faster then the eye and angels are unquantifibly faster then them. then again they can also teleport. 



Eldritch Sukima said:


> Unless the mind rape in question is comparable to what can Kerrigan can do I don't see why Tyrael should get a free pass in terms of mental defense.



well diablo could probebly do the same things as kerrigan feat wise(mind rape wise).. we know kerrigan is stronger then what she has done featwise but we can't really know for certain how much. same goes for tyreal he could withstand the mindrape, but we don't know how much effort it cost him.. 

anyway same with speed i would rather disregard it.. 

would make a much more interesting fight aswell..


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## Bioness (Mar 12, 2013)

So much wank, to say that X killed 1,000,000 of Y is beyond quantifiable as there is no time frame no strength given (Some demons in Diablo are able to be taken out by fucking farmers).

And Tyreal did not survive the Worldstone exploding, it pretty much destroyed not just his body but his "light" and required 20 years for him to be "reborn" again.


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## Rivers (Mar 12, 2013)

It's fact that the Burning Hells is a demon-torture-demon world. If you are not strong, you become every other Demon's bitch. If you are referring to the Fallen (impish little red demons), they are considered a cruel joke in the Burning Hells. 

Unlike the Heavenly Host, the Burning Hells are ruled by the Seven Great Evils with their own territory. They constantly battle each other and the first time the Lesser Evils tried to overrule the Prime Evils, the Fallen were actually Azmodan's strongest Warriors and were, _"exalted demons of the Burning Hells."_ 

Diablo fucked them up real good and had them, _"twisted into small, ridiculous imps in contrast to their previously powerful forms. Azmodan did not return their former glory as he felt it was their fault he failed."_

Apart from them, I dont see any other demon that can be consistently killed by farmers...

As for Imperius' feats:

_"I must also mention Solarion, the Spear of Valor. I have heard it is described as an extension of his immutable will, powerful enough to sunder Hell's mightiest ramparts with a single righteous strike. During one of Imperius' invasions of the Burning Hells, it is written that Solarion felled so many Demons that rivers of blood flowed throughout the realms of the seven Evils."​_​
Tyrael with his Sword of Justice El'druin, is close to or even rivals Imperius' martial prowess on the battlefield.


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## Bioness (Mar 12, 2013)

I do not believe you understand how a Versus match works.

We do not take whatever story fluff is added to make something enjoyable in determining a winner. We take QUANTITATIVE acts and compare them. Your entire post is nothing but fluffy fiction that makes good writing but not for good calculations.

How stronger were the demons? How many? What defines a river? How properties do their blood hold, given that their blood is transported from the battlefield to another dimension upon death.

As I said before and what you even said, the demons in Diablo range greatly in power, however even the ones the size of buildings do not display anything notable compared to their size (only tearing down walls or breaking rock). Yeah they can look as badass with as many glowing eyes as they want but the fact is their fighting has rarely gone above superhuman.

With Sarah Kerrigan however, she can mass dominate, full on mind control, or destroy a person's brain even without using a psionic storm, she has dodged hypersonic attacks, regenerated a cut off limb instantly, is capable of destroying destroying 27 siege tanks on her own, can telekinetically lift up several dozen marines at once before cruising their bodies, has psionic lightning that can destroy massive structures, and a recent feat from Heart of the Swarm shows that if at least a hive is nearby and she "dies" her essence and body will be reborn within minutes, rather than whatever god long time it takes for demons and angels to be reborn in.

The simple fact is that Tyreal and even all of Diablo is out classed by her.

For scenario 2: it is unholy rape in her favor as I mentioned the resurrection ability she gained as well as the fact that a Hive of Zerg can continue to make more Zerg if the first group is killed off. You also have to ask which Zerg are you including in this?  If all Zerglings she might as well solo the Angiris Council herself, but stuff like Infestors, Brood Lords, Queens, and the massive Ultralisk can do the work for her.


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## Rivers (Mar 12, 2013)

Bioness said:


> I do not believe you understand how a Versus match works.
> 
> We do not take whatever story fluff is added to make something enjoyable in determining a winner. We take QUANTITATIVE acts and compare them. Your entire post is nothing but fluffy fiction that makes good writing but not for good calculations.
> 
> How stronger were the demons? How many? What defines a river? How properties do their blood hold, given that their blood is transported from the battlefield to another dimension upon death.



The entire game of Diablo revolves around the Hero pushing back hoards of demons and shifting the balance back of power back to the humans. At best the player has decades worth of fighting experience...

Compare that to Immortal Angels who have been fighting since the beginning of time and you cant comprehend powerscalling that to what happens in the storyline of the game by the player?

The demons would obviously be the ones you find in the Hell regions of the game and the fact he entered each of the Evil realms and slaughtered demons in one invasion, without getting captured is a feat in itself. Other Angels have lead attacks on only one region of the Burning Hells and have ended up butt-raped.

He pretty much walked into the front yard of each of the Seven Great Evils domain in one go, took a dump on the grass, and they couldn't manage to pay him back.


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## Bioness (Mar 12, 2013)

Rivers just what are you trying to argue here, and try saying it without going into another one of your Tyreal>angel>demon>human tangents.


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