# Hokage Kakashi vs Tsunade



## Blu-ray (Jan 11, 2015)

Location: Naruto vs Pain
Distance: 50 meters
Restrictions: None
Knowledge: Manga


Who's the weakest Hokage? Bar Hiruzen of course.

Damn I hope this place isn't dead and I get some responses.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 11, 2015)

Tsunade wins obviously. Kakashi is the weakest Hokage.


----------



## LostSelf (Jan 11, 2015)

New Generation surpasses the old.

Kakashi should've surpassed Tsunade by that time. If you mean post-war.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Jan 11, 2015)

?

Of course tsunade wins. Without the sharingan he cannot survive in CQC especially while trading blows without getting hit which is a must when facing tsunade. His best shit(rakiri) is suicide here.

All his other jutsu and tricks won't be anything strength of a hundred and katsuyu support can't handle i'd imagine.


----------



## Bonly (Jan 11, 2015)

Hard to say. No clue how Kakashi improved during his time as Hokage but I'd favor Tsunade, losing the Sharingan was a mean shot at Kakashi


----------



## SoleAccord (Jan 11, 2015)

I'm not going to imply Kakashi's a goner without Sharingan but he loses considerable power without it - I'm not just talking about the joke that is 'Kamui GG' either. That precognition and skill reading was pretty valuable. Tsunade's fighting style is linear, so it won't be THAT difficult to read. Both have some considerable experience and fought in wars, both respect the other by title and ability. I can say that neither are taking each other lightly as Hokage. 

I suspect Tsunade will go Creation Rebirth off the bat to not take too many risks against someone who has at least triple her moves in arsenal, arguably more if his moniker holds true. This is a brawler versus an assassin in fighting style, and Tsunade's chakra reserves and ability to take a shit load of damage is vital here. Dare I say Tsunade outlasts?

Mindset matters OP - IC or Bloodlusted?


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 11, 2015)

Hiruzen is definitely not the weakest Hokage.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Jan 11, 2015)

Tsunade slaps Kakashi with her breasts.

Neg diff


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Hiruzen is definitely not the weakest Hokage.



I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as a weak Hokage.  Konoha is always #1 or #2 in the general power charts while devoting most of it's upper tiers to training the new generation, and #1 as an overall world power until it got cut it's fighting force cut in half.  Even then it did a good enough job at half strength to convince the tree remaining world powers it would mess them up bad if they picked a fight.  

Then we've got the kage being good at different things.  Hashirama was the best at building a village system, Tobirama was the best at setting down the rules and laws and legislation, Hiruzen was the best at maintaining and defending it, Tsunade was the best possible at rebuilding and healing it, and Kakashi is a laidback boss during unity peace time who everyone in every village respects and listens to.  I really don't like the question.

As for the match itself, I favor Tsunade, because I have a hard time seeing Kakashi rebuilding his lost power to greater than it was before, and before I thought he really needed kamui in particular to solidify a win, and at least sharingan to prevent himself from getting hit.  Unless he picked up Ei's shroud or something.  He might have.  Copy ninja.


----------



## RedChidori (Jan 12, 2015)

I can't wait to see Raikiri19's response to this thread .

OT: I'm going with Tsunade. With her Byakugo Seal she can pretty much tank everything Kakashi has to offer and heal from it.


----------



## Kyu (Jan 12, 2015)

Tsunade rips off Kakashi's arms, then proceeds to beat him to death.


----------



## trance (Jan 12, 2015)

Kakashi obviously retained enough combat prowess to remain at Kage level despite the loss of his Sharingan. However, until further shown, this version of Kakashi loses.



LostSelf said:


> New Generation surpasses the old.
> 
> Kakashi should've surpassed Tsunade by that time. If you mean post-war.



Is that why Hashirama, Tobirama or Minato could lolstomp Tsunade like nobody's business?


----------



## Alex Payne (Jan 12, 2015)

We should wait for movie and Kishi's next manga for possible feats. I expect Kakashi to be the next "Professor" with every element mastered(DB4 gave him that) and crazy library of jutsu. But he needs a new trump to beat Byakugo+Katsuyu. After what Kishi gave him(Double MS + Perfect Susano) I don't think he would leave _Hokage_ Kakashi without something Hokage-worthy.


----------



## ARGUS (Jan 12, 2015)

Tsunade wins mid diff at most, kakashi is the weakest hokage (by far)

 - all she needs are a few hits and kakashi get pulverised to paste, and without the sharingan this is bound to happen. when he can't kill her and when he can't evade her blows either

 - raikiris (assuming if he could even do it) damage gets regenerated by byakugou so it's still not doing shit, as with katsuyus here who kakashi can't take out either. Means that the summon can also heal tsunade and attack kakashi through it's acid. Making it even easier for tsunade


----------



## Ruse (Jan 12, 2015)

Tsunade takes this handidly, I can't see Kakashi beating any Kage with the loss of his sharingan.


----------



## Patrick (Jan 12, 2015)

War Arc Kakashi is considerably stronger than Tsunade but without his Sharingan I'd give the edge to Tsunade.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 12, 2015)

VolatileSoul said:


> Location: Naruto vs Pain
> Distance: 50 meters
> Restrictions: None
> Knowledge: Manga
> ...



Hiruzen is not the weakest Hokage - Tsunade is. Kakashi is much faster and can cut her head off with his Raikiri.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 12, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Tsunade wins mid diff at most, kakashi is the weakest hokage (by far)
> 
> - all she needs are a few hits and kakashi get pulverised to paste, and without the sharingan this is bound to happen. when he can't kill her and when he can't evade her blows either
> 
> - raikiris (assuming if he could even do it) damage gets regenerated by byakugou so it's still not doing shit, as with katsuyus here who kakashi can't take out either. Means that the summon can also heal tsunade and attack kakashi through it's acid. Making it even easier for tsunade



Kakashi is much faster even without Sharingan. Sharingan only gives him his precog - he is still very fast by himself. He can cut her head off with his Raikiri.


----------



## sabre320 (Jan 12, 2015)

This is hate thread on kakashi...wait for the movie for some feats im hoping kakashi can devealop his other areas like he did in his monstrous growth in gaiden..thing is though kakashi is still the master in bunshin feints and tactics he can make a raiton bunshin to stun tsunade and use raiden to cut her in half..


----------



## ARGUS (Jan 12, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Kakashi is much faster even without Sharingan. Sharingan only gives him his precog - he is still very fast by himself. He can cut her head off with his Raikiri.



Kakashi is still not blitzing her. So even if she can't physically evade him, she can atleast block raikiri with her arms and heal from it 
Once she heals, she lands one clean blow and kakashi get pummeled


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 12, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Kakashi is still not blitzing her. So even if she can't physically evade him, she can atleast block raikiri with her arms and heal from it
> Once she heals, she lands one clean blow and kakashi get pummeled



Do you think she has durability, good enough to block Raikiri?


----------



## Mercurial (Jan 12, 2015)

Even without Sharingan/Mangekyo, Kakashi is still on another level. Especially if he has had time to work on himself without the Sharingan, he is one that trains himself and as Hokage and a famed ninja he can use all the village scrolls, not to mention the 1000 jutsu hype.

He is still a lot faster, smarter and more versatile than Tsunade. He makes her hit a Raiton Kage Bunshin and then bisect her with Raiden or cuts her head off with Raikiri, or even throwing a Raikiri kunai while she's paralyzed.


----------



## Mercurial (Jan 12, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Do you think she has durability, good enough to block Raikiri?



Raikiri cuts hard metal like butter, Kakashi slices and dices her body even worse.


----------



## sabre320 (Jan 12, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Kakashi is still not blitzing her. So even if she can't physically evade him, she can atleast block raikiri with her arms and heal from it
> Once she heals, she lands one clean blow and kakashi get pummeled



She blocks raikiti with her arms it rips through her like a hot knife through butter but raiden bisects her after a raiton bunshin feint it cut v2 tails..though if she has distance katsuya..


----------



## Trojan (Jan 12, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> This is hate thread on kakashi...wait for the movie for some feats im hoping kakashi can devealop his other areas like he did in his monstrous growth in gaiden..thing is though kakashi is still the master in bunshin feints and tactics he can make a raiton bunshin to stun tsunade and use raiden to cut her in half..



he has no feats in the movie. :rofl


----------



## Richard Lionheart (Jan 12, 2015)

@Op: You mean as in war arc byakugou Tsunade, who fought Madara's susanno army without the forbidden one?

...... I don't even.


----------



## sabre320 (Jan 12, 2015)

Hussain said:


> he has no feats in the movie. :rofl



u seen the movie?


----------



## Arles Celes (Jan 12, 2015)

Kakashi is smarter and faster.

Tsunade is stronger and way more resilient.

Kakashi lacks moves to put Tsunade down. He has to make Tsunade waste her strength while conserving his own as much as possible. He won't outlast her if he tries to match her in a contest of pure power regardless of whether he can or cannot use Raikiri.

Guess Kakashi will need a new fighting style now that he lost sharingan. It will either be mastering the gates or learning Hirashin. Or maybe become an elemental master like Hiruzen.


----------



## Blu-ray (Jan 12, 2015)

Kakashi's speed won't be giving Tsunade issues. She was capable of contending with Madara and his speed is significantly above Kakashi's. She could even land clean hits despite his precog. Kakashi himself despite having precog, was being pressured by Hidan in CQC despite him having the slowest attack speed in Akatsuki and the the same speed stat as Tsunade.

Also, Katsuyu isn't restricted you know. I'm real interested in how Kakashi deals with that.



SoleAccord said:


> Mindset matters OP - IC or Bloodlusted?



Completely forgot about the mindset. It's In Character.



Strategoob said:


> Hiruzen is definitely not the weakest Hokage.



Well. Not anymore thanks to the Rokudaime.



sabre320 said:


> u seen the movie?



Aside from issuing orders, he doesn't do anything in the movie at all.


----------



## Alucardemi (Jan 12, 2015)

VolatileSoul said:


> Aside from issuing orders, he doesn't do anything in the movie at all.



Oh that's not true at all!

He gets saved by Sasuke using his own original technique at a much more impressive level when Kakashi himself had already accepted his own death 

Oh the hijinks


----------



## Euraj (Jan 12, 2015)

I can't believe this made it to page 2. Tsunade drops him and rips out his intestines. Seems like some folks pick a winner just looking at names and not circumstances.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 12, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Raikiri cuts hard metal like butter, Kakashi slices and dices her body even worse.



And i agree with you. I just wanted ARGUS to bring her durability feats good enough to suggest she could block Raikiri with her bare hands.


----------



## Altair21 (Jan 12, 2015)

Kakashi's fucked the minute Tsunade summons Katsuyu (not that she even needs her summon to win).


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Jan 12, 2015)

If Old Hiruzen was anything to go by, its that the bar for what is ' Hokage-level ' is set pretty low. Kakashi may have lost the sharingan, but he still has access to a massive array of ninjutsu, and has great intelligence and leadership ability to back that up. In many ways, sharingan-less Kakashi is just Hiruzen 2.0. It should be no surprise, then, that his battle strength was still deemed great enough for him to become a Hokage.

That doesn't mean he randomly got a huge strength boost though. He may have learned a few new tricks but I doubt it was anything substantial enough to put him above Tsunade, who is a full tier ahead of him in strength.​​


----------



## SoleAccord (Jan 12, 2015)

VolatileSoul said:


> Completely forgot about the mindset. It's In Character.



In that case I'm giving it to Tsunade, bloodlust is Kakashi's only chance but the distance you put between them disallows for anything clever from Kakashi too. Given reputation and status as Kage, neither are underestimating the other, but Kakashi without his precognition is in a shit spot to Tsunade's already stronger attributes. Attrition wise Kakashi is screwed, chakra level wise Kakashi is screwed. All he has is more techniques and none of them are going to one-shot Tsunade, nor slow her down for long. Creation Rebirth prep time and her durability feats suggest to me that he can't put her down with an IC mindset - he needs to go in for an immediate kill before Tsunade is allowed to get comfortable with her medical ninjutsu.

She doesn't need to fear Raikiri, maybe Raiden, but Raikiri by itself is going to be a joke for her. In both instances where Kakashi used Raiton Kage Bunshin and Raiden Kakashi mentioned his chakra levels and his concern for them. Keep in mind for the former that he mentioned he was already half-dry after its use, so it's a risk against someone he can't take down by normal means. Tsunade may be linear but she has the strength and endurance advantage to take his blows, and Kakashi no longer has the Sharingan to easily counter any form of taijutsu, especially when it comes to someone's entire fighting style centered around killing strikes with one blow and outlasting people in attrition. This is even without bringing up her significant trump cards.

I mean Katsuyu - what's he doing against her? I don't even need panels to support it; Katsuyu's durability and multiplication technique, not to mention Acid Slime, are just things Kakashi has no counter for. The best he could do is Earth Style Wall to shield himself from it if he isn't going underground or something, but it will melt, rendering his defensive and offensive arsenal both useless in the face of this summon. "But it's not IC!" ...uh, she did it here without much 'need' for it ...so ...

Byakugo - "But it's not IC!" ...uh, she can break the fucking rules whenever she wants and use this.  She wasn't even bloodlusted against Madara, she was calm, recognized the threat, and activated it without fear or regret. Kakashi without a Sharingan is still a threat, even if its a weaker one than he would be with Sharingan, but it's still IC for her to activate this when she cares to. Tsunade doesn't give a shit about her lifespan when she's putting herself on the line, so I don't think the '"But she'll die faster!" really matters to her. Kakashi has nothing to stop this.

Raikiri and Raiden are incredibly linear and obvious techniques that demand Kakashi move in one line at high speed - if Kakashi tries to exchange blows with Tsunade given her greater ability to endure attacks and massive chakra reserves, he'll lose, there's no 'even exchanging' with Tsunade and I can't be convinced otherwise. Kakashi with Sharingan may be able to deal a blow and get out in one piece, but not without it. Raikiri is 50/50 suicidal. He always aims for center mass with Raikiri for safety and ease, because it's often a guaranteed kill. If someone can find a panel where Kakashi blatantly aimed for the head of a human opponent with Raikiri, please do, but without knowledge of Byakugo I don't see him doing such an out of character tactic unless he had knowledge of the chakra centered around her forehead from the beginning. Knowledge doesn't mean he's getting the chance either, though, and the distance works against him way more than Tsunade so she can prep these things without fear. 

Raiton Clone, or any close in general, means half his chakra pool is wiped clean in an instant. Kakashi's going to play too safe with Tsunade rather than go in for the clean decisive blows, it's just purely IC for Kakashi to test the waters a bit. He's not closing the gap in time to stop her from activating Sozo Saizei or Byakugo, and his IC mindset already hinders him from making the risky plays necessary to put Tsunade down. Kakashi will fight until his chakra and stamina dwindle down while Tsunade can still heal an entire village and run a mile when this ends. She puts him down, this is hardly a contest with the conditions of this match. 

_*Tsunade Mid-High Difficulty*_. I respect Kakashi, but nothing he has is putting her down. The conditions of this match work against him too much. I only give it a 'High' because Kakashi's making her work for this win, as should any Kage worth their salt. The 'Mid' is because she may just need less than five minutes to do this, Tsunade's got all day. 

If someone tells me how he stops Katsuyu on Tsunade's whim, or bypasses Byakugo's regeneration with an in-character maneuver from a Sharinganless Kakashi, I'll be waiting. Just tired of 'Oh Kakashi's super versatile' but people use the same tired ass tactic that didn't even amount to anything in the manga to begin with. Choza and Chouji stepped in, Kakashi was trying to avoid CQC risks like he should here, but CQC is his only chance at stopping Tsunade anyway. Nothing in his distance game is going to make her sweat. 

Never thought I'd see the day I defend Tsunade, but the Kakashi arguments ...


----------



## JuicyG (Jan 12, 2015)

Kakashi is kind of getting the shit end of the deal. Yes he became Hokage, but at his peak level of power, he was arguably the strongest of all Kages par Naruto, and maybe Hashirama. So this thread somewhat down plays Kakashi.

DMS Kakashi >>>>>>>> (Most Kages) = MS Kakashi War Arc >>> Hokage Kakashi


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jan 19, 2015)

Kakashi wins, he attacks with RKB and solos with with Lightning Chain.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 19, 2015)

You know even if Tsunade gets bisected with raiden, she can summon Katsuya and put herself back together with byako while Kakashi deals with a boss summon.  SS is exactly as good if not better than Karen medkit at healing wounds.

Then Kakashi is at under 1/4 of his chakra, because he spent 50% on the RKB, and 50% on the second clone, and another portion of his chakra to use raiden, which he says is high cost even with his stupidly War Arc stamina.

That's if she doesn't jump it, or bust the ground to stop their run, or summon, because Raiden has the many of the same weaknesses as raikiri.

The best argument is still that Kishi would give him something or other make up for his lost power as Hokage.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 19, 2015)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> If Old Hiruzen was anything to go by, its that the bar for what is ' Hokage-level ' is set pretty low. Kakashi may have lost the sharingan, but he still has access to a massive array of ninjutsu, and has great intelligence and leadership ability to back that up. In many ways, sharingan-less Kakashi is just Hiruzen 2.0. It should be no surprise, then, that his battle strength was still deemed great enough for him to become a Hokage.
> 
> That doesn't mean he randomly got a huge strength boost though. He may have learned a few new tricks but I doubt it was anything substantial enough to put him above Tsunade, who is a full tier ahead of him in strength.​​



Hiruzen did not become Hokage when he was old and helpless though. When he became one, it was when he was already superior to the previous Hokage.


----------



## Veracity (Jan 19, 2015)

Tsuande would troll this Kakashi lol . And nothing bar a lighting blade headshot( and that's not even for sure) would put down tsuande . And Kakashi IC aims for the midsection almost 100% of the time.


----------



## Ghost (Jan 19, 2015)

Tsunade punches a Raiton clone and gets a Raikiri kunai through her head.

Kakashi is still a hundred times better fighter. Kakashi is smarter, has more fighting experience and all the tools and knowledge to beat Tsunade.


----------



## Veracity (Jan 19, 2015)

Saikyou said:


> Tsunade punches a Raiton clone and gets a Raikiri kunai through her head.
> 
> Kakashi is still a hundred times better fighter. Kakashi is smarter, has more fighting experience and all the tools and knowledge to beat Tsunade.



 

What does punching a raiton clone do? It lacks the ability to paralyze a tank like Tsuande and is just a waste of chakra quite frankly. 

Correction; you mean you think Kakashi is more intelligent and a better fighter then Tsunade . He's honestly just had a shit ton of panel time in comparison to Tsuandes little amount , and just cause Kakashi constantly switches with Bunshin and pulls random contraptions out of his pocket doesn't mean he's far more tactical then tsunade . Tsunade still posses a 5 in intelligence and is backed up by the fact that she was the Hokage, lived through multiple wars, and devolved the entire medical unit herself . And LMAO at Kakashi having more fighting experience .


----------



## Amol (Jan 19, 2015)

Unless you are extremely biased winner is obvious.
Tsunade punches the Kakashi who can't even use Raikiri properly.


----------

