# Hashirama vs  Jubi Obito



## Corax (Nov 30, 2014)

Ok we had a little chat with my friend (hard Hashirama fan) and he said that despite of his words in manga by feats he can beat Jubi Obito (has SM and stuff).

Location: Unraikyo
Knowledge: full
State of Mind: In Character but intent to kill is present.
Start Distance: 100 meters.
Scenario 1: Hashirama is normal and starts in SM.
Scenario 2: Hashirama met Hagoromo in a dream and received his powers: Preta path to nullify chakra based jutsu, Human path to bypass regeneration and Naraka path to sent Obito to Jigoku(hell).  I ll call him Haxxorama.

Personally I think that Haxxorama can win.


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## Itachі (Nov 30, 2014)

Hashirama cannot touch Obito as the Jubi's Jinchuriki. Obito encases himself with the black substance, Obito has great reactions and Hashirama has no chance at landing a hit on him. 

In the second scenario, Hashirama defeats him. I don't get how sending Obito to hell works though..


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## Corax (Nov 30, 2014)

> I don't get how sending Obito to hell works though.


Just king Yama eats him. Like Kabuto wanted to hide Naruto s and B's bodies in his realm.


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## Mercurial (Nov 30, 2014)

Well Hashirama actually could touch the Gudoudama thanks to senjutsu. But he is blitzed and nuked in hell by Juubito.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 30, 2014)

hashirama is severely outclassed in this scenerio he  gets mid diffed, maybe if he had his brother, minato, and sasuke as back up he could pull it off but not alone.



there is no doubt in my mind that hashirama with access to ridikuo chakra would stomp the naruto verse. scenerio 2 he no diffs


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## Corax (Nov 30, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> Well Hashirama actually could touch the Gudoudama thanks to senjutsu. But he is blitzed and nuked in hell by Juubito.


Well Jubi Obito speed is inconsistent (he couldn't blitz Hiruzen and EMS  Sasuke kept up with him and even tagged him). But I agree on nuke part. 4 big bijudama and barrier end Hashirama without preta path.


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## Trojan (Nov 30, 2014)

Obito fodderstomps extremely low difficult.

he could
1- speedblitzes him as a bug.
2- use the barrier, and then the the TBB to send Hashirama to oblivion. 
3- use the god Tree to completely destroy him

either way, Hashirama stands no chance, he's severely outclassed.


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## egressmadara (Nov 30, 2014)

Only way for Hashirama to win is if Juubito voluntarily decides to try to tank the sage buddha compltely open. At the very least, he won't be regenerating from the damage he's gonna take from that. 



Corax said:


> Well Jubi Obito speed is inconsistent (he couldn't blitz Hiruzen and EMS  Sasuke kept up with him and even tagged him).


Juubito ended up blitzing both of them.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 30, 2014)

Hashirama wins. Buddha should be at least on par with 50% BSM + Susano'o


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## Trojan (Nov 30, 2014)

BSM Narudo alone is superior to Hashirama, let alone with Sasuke. U_U


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## Cognitios (Nov 30, 2014)

Juubito wins mid diff. 
Hashirama is one of the few non gods that can not be low diffed by juubito. But he's not putting up a good fight.


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## Ashi (Nov 30, 2014)

He gets trolled by Divine Tree

Or erased byTtruth Seeker


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## ARGUS (Nov 30, 2014)

Juubito eradicates him  

 - Barrier + Quad Juubi dama is all that needs to be said,  especially when hashirama has no answer to juubitios firepower at all


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## Radice (Nov 30, 2014)

Edo Madara affirms if he gets Hashirama senjutsu
He can  defeat  Juubito


So Hashirama and His senjutsu can defeat  Juubito


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## Trojan (Nov 30, 2014)

Radice said:


> Edo Madara affirms if he gets Hashirama senjutsu
> He can  defeat  Juubito
> 
> 
> So Hashirama and His senjutsu can defeat  Juubito


 and so did Naruto (by himself)
therefore, KCM Narudo solos all the ET, Zetsu, Obito, and Kabuto by himself because he said so.


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## LostSelf (Nov 30, 2014)

Nooo, please no! Don't make Hashirama a wanked character. The guy is perfect .

Hashirama said mindless Juubito was stronger than him. Nuff said.

Scenario 2 is a heavy stomp on Hashirama's favor. Harogromo's power made someone like base Naruto to compete with Juudara.

Now imagine a god tier like Hashirama who is who he is without Kurama. The guy would be a monster.


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## SSMG (Nov 30, 2014)

Juubito wish scenario 1 low diff

Hashi wins scenario 2 low diff.


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## Trojan (Nov 30, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> Nooo, please no! Don't make Hashirama a wanked character. The guy is perfect .
> .



> implying that he is not. 

some of his fans believe that he beats current Naruto because his woods "suppress" the Bijuus power! 

or that he is on the same level as Hago because Kabuto said that people did not believe his power just like how they did not believe the sage's.

or that he's stronger than Kaguya because the databook says that no shinobi surpassed (his healing) power to this day. lol

if that not wank, I don't know what is.

Edit;

heck you can go see Hashirama Vs 8th Gate Gai, and how people believe that he's stronger than gai.


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## Ruse (Nov 30, 2014)

Hashi straight up said Obito was stronger....than he got blitzed shortly after.....

That was mindless Obito....


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## Kyu (Nov 30, 2014)

> (hard Hashirama fan)



He's one of those huh?


Juubito guts Hashirama like a trout.


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## trance (Dec 1, 2014)

Hashirama admitted inferiority to an Obito that couldn't control the Juubi. Once he gained control, he posed a _much_ greater threat. I don't see why someone would think Hashirama is lying, especially when we look at the feats.


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## Trojan (Dec 1, 2014)

Any character that admits inferiority is taken to be lying from the fan-base perspective, yet with different excuses. 

Hashirama: "He's stronger than me"
Some of his fans: 

"The one who admitted inferiority is the clone, so obito is only stronger than the clone, but the real Hashirama is actually stronger than him" 

Itachi: "If we fight we will end up hurting each other badly, best case scenario, we will die, but we will take him with us"

his fans"
"He's clearly lying because he's a spy and does not want to harm anyone"

Kisame: "our level is too far apart"

Jman haters: "that obviously not true"

Deidara: "Sasori is stronger than me"
Deidara fans: "he's obviously lying because he wants kakashi to go help Sakura, so he can fight Naruto alone" 

Tobirama: "fourth, you're better than me" "I can't do it like you" "FTG is too slow by clones"
his fans: "that obviously not true, they are exactly the same" "he surpassed him later because he did not want Minato to be better than him" ...etc

Zetsu: : He (Narudo) is stronger than Sasuke now"
Sasuke fans: :Zetsu does not know anything"

Sasuke: "I lost"
his fans: "He obviously did not" 

and so on and so forth... 

*****

why did I even write that anyway?


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## Kai (Dec 1, 2014)

Radice said:


> Edo Madara affirms if he gets Hashirama senjutsu
> He can  defeat  Juubito


He said he will switch places with Obito by that time; he never said he will defeat Obito. As we now know, Madara was waiting for Naruto and Sasuke to defeat Obito.


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## Icegaze (Dec 1, 2014)

Buddha murders 
Juubito was struggling with BSM naruto avatar and some fodder leg susanoo 
Buddha absolutely murders

Hussain if we are to take all character statements literally then itachi trolls juubito
He is said to be invincible 
Character statements are what they are statements 


Unless you believe sage nose naruto surpasses your bf minato 
Unless you believe MS sasuke is superior to Sm naruto 
The list goes on


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## Bkprince33 (Dec 1, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Buddha murders
> Juubito was struggling with BSM naruto avatar and some fodder leg susanoo
> Buddha absolutely murders
> 
> ...



 Buhddah is to slow jubito can just create distance and nuke him off the planet, buhddah can do some serious damage if it hits jubito which is why i believe hashi can do it with backup and distractions, but not alone.



Hussain all of these examples are clearly not the same

Hashirama saw the jubi's powers and jubito's powers first hand therefore we can take his statement literal he feels jubito is stronger

Itachi never saw jiraiya fight and he obviously had a hidden agenda so how could he conclude he can't beat jiraiya with back up if he never saw his abilities?

Kisame based his statement off hype


Diedara statement may be true imo.


Sasuke was talking about ideologies.



You have to look at context before you take any statement literal.


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## TheGreen1 (Dec 1, 2014)

Technically by feats alone, Juubito should win low to no difficulty due to the fact that he blitzed Edo Hashirama and Edo Tobirama with ease. Goudama will wreck Hashirama SM or no, because of Obito's unique ability to manipulate the Goudama at will, plus his undeniable speed boost which Hashirama can't really react to.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 1, 2014)

Jesus H. Christ

It' pretty clear those with the power of the SO6P exist in another world than anyone without it. The lesser people cannot compete in raw strength/ability.

With that being said truth seeker weapon blitz GG or if he wants to be flashy six yang barrier+four juubidamas GG.


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## Corax (Dec 1, 2014)

His speed is overrated (EMS 4.5 speed Sasuke reacted to his attacks without much troubles, Hiruzen observed all his moves and even had time to figure out his power),in any over regard I agree. Ju Obito seriously surpasses Hashirama in firepower. So barrier+4 bijudama should end this fight. But for me this is  mid-hard diff.


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## Icegaze (Dec 1, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Buhddah is to slow jubito can just create distance and nuke him off the planet, buhddah can do some serious damage if it hits jubito which is why i believe hashi can do it with backup and distractions, but not alone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Any proof Buddha is slow what kinda BS is that 
The range of the jutsu dwarfs any singular BD or anything seen before naruto and sasuke SoP boost 
It countered 9 susanoo sword enhanced BD from 100 % kyuubi
Seriously juubito isn't escaping the range of the jutsu he will attempt blocking and he will be squashed. Sage mode rasengan from naruto who is <<<<<<<<<<<<has hashirama and rasengan which is <<<<<<<Buddha still damaged obito why are people assuming he is immune to hashirama attacks 
Also Sasuke and naruto with no SoP boost were reacting just fine to juubito he isn't going to blitz hashirama

Why may deidara statements be true and the others false 
You making stuff up 
Who says deidara didn't have a hidden agenda 
Also why would kaguya will lie about itachi abilities it was talkin to itself 
Again if u take 1 statement gotta take them all can't be doing no half way BS only when it is convinent to your self affirmation


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## Kai (Dec 1, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Any proof Buddha is slow what kinda BS is that
> The range of the jutsu dwarfs any singular BD or anything seen before naruto and sasuke SoP boost
> It countered 9 susanoo sword enhanced BD from 100 % kyuubi
> Seriously juubito isn't escaping the range of the jutsu he will attempt blocking and he will be squashed. Sage mode rasengan from naruto who is <<<<<<<<<<<<has hashirama and rasengan which is <<<<<<<Buddha still damaged obito why are people assuming he is immune to hashirama attacks
> ...


Not sure if serious


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## Icegaze (Dec 1, 2014)

Real serious 
Take it or leave it 
Character statements are BS
Ei no one is faster than me but minato 
Gai steps in and is shown to be much faster 
Kishi contradicts his statements for the lolz
They have no value


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## Kai (Dec 1, 2014)

Validity of character statements are judged by their context. It's impossible to categorize them all just because some are hyperbole or changed later.

Nothing contradicts what was stated about Obito being more powerful than Hashirama in the fight. Even Madara stated he would love to see the Hokage squirm before Obito's power, but he must act quickly.


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## Flappy (Dec 1, 2014)

Obito rapes. He goes Juubi mode for a quick win and bombards him with Biju dama.


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## Icegaze (Dec 1, 2014)

Kai said:


> Validity of character statements are judged by their context. It's impossible to categorize them all just because some are hyperbole or changed later.
> 
> Nothing contradicts what was stated about Obito being more powerful than Hashirama in the fight. Even Madara stated he would love to see the Hokage squirm before Obito's power, but he must act quickly.



I don't see how nothing contradicts it 
he took time to beat naruto and sasuke which for all we have seen hsve given no reason to think they can handle Buddha 
Despite wanting to see the hokage squirm they looked fairly calm if anything minato was envious abit he was in no way scared he seemed just fine 
Tobirama never lost his cool and found juubito weakness 

Juubito did not do anything ultimately that hashirama in the same situation. Couldn't have pulled off 

Now juudara no doubt is far above but juubito in no way shape or form 

Character statements are contradicted every single time not one statement has held true 

Sandaime god of shinobi we can see how that worked out 

Please come up with an actual argument 

Because the level at which juubito fought is nothing impressive he took damage from a mere rasengan


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## Ruse (Dec 1, 2014)

Can't believe some people are actually arguing Hashi can beat JJ Obito.....

Obito's showing didn't contradict Hashi's admission of inferiority.


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## sabre320 (Dec 1, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> I don't see how nothing contradicts it
> he took time to beat naruto and sasuke which for all we have seen hsve given no reason to think they can handle Buddha
> Despite wanting to see the hokage squirm they looked fairly calm if anything minato was envious abit he was in no way scared he seemed just fine
> Tobirama never lost his cool and found juubito weakness
> ...



Juubitos getting really underrated black balls destroy hashi ....or he goes quad bijuudama or if he wants to humiliate hashirama he beats hashi at his own game and summons the godtree to tentacle rape shinsensenju....grotesque image:/


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 1, 2014)

I'm with Icegaze on this one.

I believe Buddha would murder Juubito. It is a sage technique and its strength is greater than 100%Kyuubi+Susano'o fusion.

I know about the statement, but, like is there anything to justify that ? Naruto & Sasuke were able to destroy Juubiyo's strongest arsenal in a head on clash and pierced him. Why wouldn't someone with comparable power accomplish the same thing ? From BD perspective, it seems quite plausible.


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## Lord Stark (Dec 1, 2014)

Hashirama admitted Juubito is far superior before he even powered up...ck


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## Deleted member 211714 (Dec 1, 2014)

Based on how JJ Obito was defeated in manga canon, Sage Hashirama comes out victorious after a difficult fight.
As for who's stronger in terms of tiers? JJ Obito. Narrowly

VotE Hashirama and VotE Madara were just special cases in the ninja world. They reached levels not too far away from Rikudou Naruto/Rikudou Sasuke. Especially Shodai... Kishi made it pretty clear that he was unrivaled in life and had Madara stall him to prevent Obito from getting defeated conventionally.


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## Bkprince33 (Dec 1, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Any proof Buddha is slow what kinda BS is that
> The range of the jutsu dwarfs any singular BD or anything seen before naruto and sasuke SoP boost
> It countered 9 susanoo sword enhanced BD from 100 % kyuubi
> Seriously juubito isn't escaping the range of the jutsu he will attempt blocking and he will be squashed. Sage mode rasengan from naruto who is <<<<<<<<<<<<has hashirama and rasengan which is <<<<<<<Buddha still damaged obito why are people assuming he is immune to hashirama attacks
> ...



I don't mean slow in a general sense but more like slow when compared to jubito, i can provide you jubito feats but im sure you already know them, how about you provide us feats from the SS that shows us it can keep up with jubito or stop him from creating distance.

exactly why can't jubito create space? and why would hashirama even attempt to summon it in jubito's face? he ran from kyubi armored in susano, i fail to see why he would stand before a ten tails jinchuriki and attempt to summon in his face while jubito is trying to attack him.



Sasuke had EMS precognition and Naruto has high reactions due to him being fast himself, if he won't blitz him at the very least he will pressure him until he smacks him down.



because kishi specifically outlined itachi's hidden agenda and him being a ally of konoha. 

what hidden agenda did kishi ever outline for diedara?


im pretty sure that was hyperbole.


When talking about characters statements we have to look at the context and overall situation. You can't just apply them all the same and take them all for face value, when the manga later introduces contradicting evidence.


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## Ruse (Dec 2, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I'm with Icegaze on this one.
> 
> I believe Buddha would murder Juubito. It is a sage technique and its strength is greater than 100%Kyuubi+Susano'o fusion.
> 
> I know about the statement, but, like is there anything to justify that ? *Naruto & Sasuke were able to destroy Juubiyo's strongest arsenal in a head on clash and pierced him*. Why wouldn't someone with comparable power accomplish the same thing ? From BD perspective, it seems quite plausible.



Wasn't that only because of Obito's weak resolve though?


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## Rocky (Dec 2, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I'm with Icegaze on this one.
> 
> I believe Buddha would murder Juubito. It is a sage technique and its strength is greater than 100%Kyuubi+Susano'o fusion.
> 
> I know about the statement, but, like is there anything to justify that ? Naruto & Sasuke were able to destroy Juubiyo's strongest arsenal in a head on clash and pierced him. Why wouldn't someone with comparable power accomplish the same thing ? From BD perspective, it seems quite plausible.



Jubito would have sololed the alliance 5x over if Minato wasn't present to save everybody.

Naruto and Sasuke only managed to hit PISbito anyway, not defeat him. It took the entire alliance to extract the Biju.


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## Icegaze (Dec 3, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> Dude wtf u talkin abt....juubito can fly out of range....buudha cant target airbone targets.......just tell me this whats gonna happen to ur unstoppable budha when juubito summons the godtree?
> Thats mokutons peak



the juubito trolls not arguing that. 
had no idea that wasnt restricted. 

Also seriously how does flying out of range help juubito. What is he then goign to do if he doesnt summon god tree which obviously needs to be restricted. 

without that he cant do anythign else but try not to die


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## sabre320 (Dec 3, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> the juubito trolls not arguing that.
> had no idea that wasnt restricted.
> 
> Also seriously how does flying out of range help juubito. What is he then goign to do if he doesnt summon god tree which obviously needs to be restricted.
> ...



So you agree when godtree gets summoned which is an abilty of juubito shinensenju gets tentacle raped and flying out of range gives him the option option of launching a juubidama which destroys hashi and buudha not to mention setting up the barrier which was stronger then the hokage barrier.....he could just keep hashi in there for spite purposes


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## Icegaze (Dec 3, 2014)

Juubi dama isn't doing shit to budda it has zero feats to suggest it would 
Mokujin a weak tiny wood construct compared to SS can play volley ball with kyuubi BD

Why can't SS catch it and return to sender ?

But yes god tree is stronger than any other wood jutsu


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## KeyofMiracles (Dec 3, 2014)

Kai said:


> He said he will switch places with Obito by that time; *he never said he will defeat Obito*. As we now know, Madara was waiting for Naruto and Sasuke to defeat Obito.


Link removed

He said he'd stop Obito using Hashirama's Senjutsu, so yes, he was planning on defeating him. And no, he wasn't waiting for Obito to be defeated by Naruto and Sasuke, he was just glad that they did it for him.


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## Ryuzaki (Dec 3, 2014)

I think Senjutsu Hashirama probably could do it, but thats because of his sealing powers and limiting Obito's power, plus he's got that wood


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 3, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Jubito would have sololed the alliance 5x over if Minato wasn't present to save everybody.
> 
> Naruto and Sasuke only managed to hit PISbito anyway, not defeat him. It took the entire alliance to extract the Biju.



I think Obito using his strongest jutsu and failing doesn't have anything to do with his PIS. His strength doesn't change. All Hashirama needs to do is to keep pounding him till he is paste after his struck with the first blow and loses his composure.



ThatBlackGuy said:


> Wasn't that only because of Obito's weak resolve though?



Well since "resolve" is something completely vague and unquantifiable, I'll go ahead and say even if he had a strong resolve his arsenal would still be defeated.


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## sabre320 (Dec 3, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Juubi dama isn't doing shit to budda it has zero feats to suggest it would
> Mokujin a weak tiny wood construct compared to SS can play volley ball with kyuubi BD
> 
> Why can't SS catch it and return to sender ?
> ...



Please tell me ur joking right you dont actually think the buudha can tank it?.....a giant juubidama was much larger then the juubi....larger then shinsensenju.you think shinsensenju is catching that. and what is your counter to obitos barrier the juubi using all his might couldnt destroy the hokages barrier this ones on a higher level juubito puts hashi in time out


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## Rocky (Dec 3, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I think Obito using his strongest jutsu and failing doesn't have anything to do with his PIS. His strength doesn't change. All Hashirama needs to do is to keep pounding him till he is paste after his struck with the first blow and loses his composure.



Last time I checked, Shinsusenju cannot fly, meaning it can't even catch Obito. Even if he couldn't blow up Hashirama with no diff using Bijudama, he could literally chill in the sky and a outlast.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 3, 2014)

The buddha wouldn't survive the explosion of even a tiny juubidama so a large one that dwarfs the fucking juubi is out of the question. If the buddha tried to punch them away(the large variant) it would probably budge about a inch and grabbing it is just ludicrous even with the statues mountain sized hands. The thing is just too big.


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## sabre320 (Dec 3, 2014)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> The buddha wouldn't survive the explosion of even a tiny juubidama so a large one that dwarfs the fucking juubi is out of the question. If the buddha tried to punch them away(the large variant) it would probably budge about a inch and grabbing it is just ludicrous even with the statues mountain sized hands. The thing is just too big.



Someone who speaks sense


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## ueharakk (Dec 5, 2014)

Portrayal:
- hashirama explicitly admits inferiority to mindless juubito
- it ended up taking BSM NAruto combined with a senjutsu boosted PS sasuke (which already is >madara's kyuusanoo) + edo kages (minus hashi) + gokage + kyuubi boosted shinobi alliance to beat juubito.

Feats:
- hashirama has no answer to quad juubidama + barrier
- hashirama has no answer to machinegun juubi jin-level chakra arms
- hashirama has no answer to shinjuu

There's no argument, hashirama gets destroyed, by feats, he can't even beat the juubi since the thing can take a super juubidama to the face and let its bijuudama blow up in its own stomach, and even the later which is far inferior to the former is incomparably greater than hashirama's most powerful offense.


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## Amol (Dec 5, 2014)

I don't understand why this even need to discuss.
Hashirama outright said that he was weak compared Juubito. A mindless even at that .
What more proof anyone needs than that ?
It is like people are completely ignoring canon now .
Juubito literally stomps Hashirama .
He was kidding around with Naruto and Sasuke.


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## Icegaze (Dec 5, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> im not restricting anything bro, im simply stating what kishi went out his way to tell us and what he hasn't.
> 
> A person can say something then retcon it or correct himself.
> and then say something else and have no need to retcon it, It's really that simple.
> ...



why does hashirama need to run away to summon budda wtf?

again no reason regardless of how large people think a juubi BD is that budda cant catch it. budda is easily as large as juubi itself. with all its hands it can simply hold BD and redirect back to sender.


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## Bkprince33 (Dec 5, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> why does hashirama need to run away to summon budda wtf?
> 
> again no reason regardless of how large people think a juubi BD is that budda cant catch it. budda is easily as large as juubi itself. with all its hands it can simply hold BD and redirect back to sender.



Because without he can't fight the jubi straight up, he would be massacred.



what if obito fire's more then one?


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## sabre320 (Dec 5, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> why does hashirama need to run away to summon budda wtf?
> 
> again no reason regardless of how large people think a juubi BD is that budda cant catch it. budda is easily as large as juubi itself. with all its hands it can simply hold BD and redirect back to sender.



Dude that thing was multiple times the size of the juubi gyuuki was an ant in comparison ...its too large the wood golem caught a bb barely as big as one hand from the kyuubi to compare it to the juubidama is reaching......he is not catching it mate you can make a better argument not to mention its likely to explode when met with such opposing force.....the juubis howitzers also an option...those things are shaped like a tank shell good luck catching that and can be fired from countries away.........and please provide me with an argument against juubito plain up putting hashi in the barrier which was stronger then the barrier that held the juuubi....shinsensenju and hashi can throw a fit all they want they are not breaking the barrier..


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## Icegaze (Dec 5, 2014)

he can just summon it. thats what i mean. 
he doesnt need to run away. claps hands SM then budda and its not like he cannot create distance from the offset or simply use doton. 

he will certainly enter Sm from there budda comes straight into play 

juubito can fire more than 1. it isnt something he seemed to be able to do all that quickly though. hashirama can keep pressure on him to discourage any such distance between them that would make lauchign such an AoE attack unsafe for juubito

ok fine i have trolled enough. juubito wins. 

i read back the chapters. yuuup!! he really really does win. 

no PIS involved he wins mid difficulty


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## Bkprince33 (Dec 5, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> he can just summon it. thats what i mean.
> he doesnt need to run away. claps hands SM then budda and its not like he cannot create distance from the offset or simply use doton.
> 
> he will certainly enter Sm from there budda comes straight into play
> ...



Thank you bruh   


i could not resist your genjutsu anymore


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## Icegaze (Dec 5, 2014)

who said you arent still caught in it?


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 5, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Last time I checked, Shinsusenju cannot fly, meaning it can't even catch Obito. Even if he couldn't blow up Hashirama with no diff using Bijudama, he could literally chill in the sky and a outlast.



Sure he can win with such an unorthodox way but it won't happen since its OOC.


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## Rocky (Dec 5, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Sure he can win with such an unorthodox way but it won't happen since its OOC.



Flying and Bijudama are not out of character for Jubi Obito. He's done both more than Hashirama has used Shinsusenju.


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## sabre320 (Dec 5, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> he can just summon it. thats what i mean.
> he doesnt need to run away. claps hands SM then budda and its not like he cannot create distance from the offset or simply use doton.
> 
> he will certainly enter Sm from there budda comes straight into play
> ...


 obito was also a massive troll


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## JuicyG (Dec 5, 2014)

*Riduko SM Hashirama you say ?*


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## Lawrence777 (Dec 5, 2014)

Madara seemed to imply he was capable of weakening Obito here[1] although I don't know if that has something to do with half of Obito's body being susceptible to Zetsu.
Hashirama is around Madara's level, so if Madara can weaken him it seems reasonable Hashirama could manage the same. 

Featwise Juubito's stronger but I think Madara's statement leaves room for some speculation.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 5, 2014)

Juubito murders Hashirama, people forget it took Naruto + Sasuke backed BY THE ENTIRE WORLD to bring down Juubito.

Hashirama might at most pierce Juubito, he isn't doing shit, it took Naruto and Sasuke recieving chakra from the entire Alliance to defeat Juubito.

Hashirama isn't doing shit.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 5, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Flying and Bijudama are not out of character for Jubi Obito. He's done both more than Hashirama has used Shinsusenju.



But the question is, will he do it against Hashirama, a grounded opponent he wants to face head on ? 

Shinobi seldom resort to cowardly tactics, they rather choose to directly face their opponent. Unless you think Juubito is so afraid of Hashirama that he'll avoid a direct confrontation, then I don't think he'll fly outside his range and nuke him with bijuudama.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 5, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> But the question is, will he do it against Hashirama, a grounded opponent he wants to face head on ?
> 
> Shinobi seldom resort to cowardly tactics, they rather choose to directly face their opponent. Unless you think Juubito is so afraid of Hashirama that he'll avoid a direct confrontation, then I don't think he'll fly outside his range and nuke him with bijuudama.



Juubito is widely considered to be the antagonist that had the most FV, aura, you know why?

Is because he precisely gave no shit about being a coward or not. The only thing that held him down is that he wanted to be sure he was right.

He just nuked and that's it, he gave no shit about being coward. To Juubito the Alliance was simply an obstacle between himself and victory. He is basically a "Do whatever is necessary no matter what" type of guy. So yes, it is completely in character for him to avoid direct confrontation.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 5, 2014)

This thread was already answered, _multiple_ times, in the manga.

We have Hashirama's *explici*t admission of inferiority, we have Obito demonstrating superior *a)* speed, *b)* destructive capacity, *c)* durability, *d)* chakra levels, and *e)* instant-kill techniques. Strong as Veritable 1000-Armed Kan'on is, it's simply not quick enough to tag a fighter that even Tailed Beast Sage Mode Naruto had troubles even following with his sensing.

Just by briefly considering basic context, we can quickly assume why Hashirama admitted his inability to defeat a Ten-Tails Jinchuriki after only witnessing a *single* feat of his. The reason may be that _Sage Art: Gracious Deity Gates_ was, in truth, his most powerful technique - even superior to that of _Veritable 1000-Armed Kan'on_. Even if it weren't, we can infer his reaction to Obito's sheer power as meaning two possibilities:

*a)* Gracious Deity Gates is stronger than Veritable 1000-Armed Kan'on.
*b)* The former is actually weaker than the statue's totaled strength (likely), but observing Obito so effortlessly tearing them into pieces simply by virtue of standing up places Obito far above Veritable 1000-Armed Kan'on with just pure physical strength. 

Let's not forget, at that point, Hashirama hadn't even seen the *true extent* of Obito's abilities - as a controlled, thinking Jinchuriki, first and foremost. He hadn't seen continent-erasing Tailed Beast Bombs, barriers that could withstand said explosions with barely a falter, speed that even *Tobirama* failed to react to, I could go on.

But both feats and the manga dictate who is clearly more powerful.


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## Kai (Dec 5, 2014)

The Myonjinmon is one of Hashirama's most powerful techniques, but not likely to be his most powerful. After all, Hashirama has been stated to be unable to bring forth his full power as an Edo Tensei, which conveniently explains Shinsuusenju's absence during the war. Otherwise, pretty spot on.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Dec 5, 2014)

I will say two things.

1.  Hashirama said Juubito was stronger than him.

2.  Kishi seemingly made a point to remove Hashirama from that fight by sending Madara in to busy him.

Point 2 doesn't invalidate point 1, but I do think adding Hashirama's sage power to the mix of Naruto, Sasuke, Tobirama, and Minato would have drastically effected the outcome of that battle.  I still in no way think he could win alone.

*Scenario 2* Hashirama crushes Juubito will killing intent, and pats him on the head.  Madara was a better juubi jin that Obito, and stronger base ninja, and prior to absorbing the god tree, Naruto or Sasuke were stomping him up and down the battlefield.  Prior to absorbing god power, Naruto and Sasuke would prostrate before Hashirama.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 5, 2014)

Kai said:


> The Myonjinmon is one of Hashirama's most powerful techniques, but not likely to be his most powerful. After all, Hashirama has been stated to be unable to bring forth his full power as an Edo Tensei, which conveniently explains Shinsuusenju's absence during the war. Otherwise, pretty spot on.



Eh, I personally doubt Tobirama would have made it a point that he and the other Kage were brought 'at near full-power' if Hashirama couldn't access his far-and-away strongest technique. That, in fact, sounds like an *incredibly* huge handicap.

I don't think Sage Hashirama, as an Edo Tensei was ever in such danger that he would require to use _Veritable 1000-Armed Kanon_. The only person he truly fought was Madara, and his senjutsu-enhanced _Wood Golem_ seemed to be handling the former's _Perfect Susanoo_ without much issue, so a *vastly* stronger technique was probably unnecessary. On the other hand, Hashirama was in a rush to get to Obito, so... who knows.


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## Ashi (Dec 5, 2014)

Sage Rasengan > Ten Tailed  Obito > Shinsenju


Is what Muffin-Kun is telling us


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 5, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Sage Rasengan > Ten Tailed  Obito > Shinsenju



Eh, I think there's two possible solutions to this:

a) Either Kishimoto literally _didn't_ conceive of senjutsu being a valid weakness for Obito until the very last minute, and essentially contradicted himself by having Naruto's _Rasengan_ do visible damage while _Gracious Deity Gates_ failed to, or
b) Hashirama's brand of senjutsu simply isn't close to as *effective* as Naruto and Jugo's kind. They could be fundamentally different and thus damage Obito to a far greater degree.

Neither make sense, but the second option seems slightly more viable.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 5, 2014)

Even if people want the "Edos were not at full power" to make a point of Hashirama defeating Juubito, let me remind you they were brought at NEARLY full power.

And even if you want to claim "that nearly is enough" then we can claim that just as Hashirama who got soloed by uncontrolled Juubito then at full power would get soloed by controlled Juubito. Because even if Hashirama massively jumps in power for not being an edo, so does Juubito by gaining control.

So even then the only thing that is accomplished is that Juubito oneshots Hashirama as his uncontrolled state did to Edo Hashirama, rather than the even worse rape it would be if you don't give Hashirama and Edo Hashirama massive power gaps.


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## ueharakk (Dec 6, 2014)

Lawrence777 said:


> Madara seemed to imply he was capable of weakening Obito here[1] although I don't know if that has something to do with half of Obito's body being susceptible to Zetsu.
> Hashirama is around Madara's level, so if Madara can weaken him it seems reasonable Hashirama could manage the same.
> 
> Featwise Juubito's stronger but I think Madara's statement leaves room for some speculation.



Madara would have needed to steal hashirama's sennin mode in order to do anything against juubito which is probably one of the reasons why he fought hashirama in the first place.

SM Madara is on another level than Madara, just like SM Hashirama is on another level than base Hashirama.



ATastyMuffin said:


> Eh, I personally doubt Tobirama would have made it a point that he and the other Kage were brought 'at near full-power' if Hashirama couldn't access his far-and-away strongest technique. That, in fact, sounds like an *incredibly* huge handicap.
> 
> I don't think Sage Hashirama, as an Edo Tensei was ever in such danger that he would require to use _Veritable 1000-Armed Kanon_. The only person he truly fought was Madara, and his senjutsu-enhanced _Wood Golem_ seemed to be handling the former's _Perfect Susanoo_ without much issue, so a *vastly* stronger technique was probably unnecessary. On the other hand, Hashirama was in a rush to get to Obito, so... who knows.



my explanation for why he didn't use the buddah:

At VoTe, after hashi goes SM, we only see him use a single jutsu (shinsuusenjuu) and after it's done he's reaching his chakra limit shown by being out of breath.  As an edo, he uses stuff like the hokage barrier, multiple wood clones, holds the juubi in place with myoujinmon, and makes another set of myoujinmon to try and stop juubito.  If anything, he probably didn't have enough chakra to use shinsuusenjuu.  The "edos have unlimited chakra" argument *probably doesn't apply to hashirama and his massive chakra resreves in this context.*


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## Rocky (Dec 6, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> But the question is, will he do it against Hashirama, a grounded opponent he wants to face head on ?
> 
> Shinobi seldom resort to cowardly tactics, they rather choose to directly face their opponent. Unless you think Juubito is so afraid of Hashirama that he'll avoid a direct confrontation, then I don't think he'll fly outside his range and nuke him with bijuudama.



Fist off, bravery ≠ idiocy. 

Secondly, "direct confrontation" would result in Hashirama being speed blitzed and chopped in half like Tobirama, the fastest ninja of his (and Hashirama's) time was. And no, Obito will not run into melee range of Senpō: Mokuton: Shin Sūsenju (should Hashirama survive that long) for shits and giggles, particularly because it towers over him like you or I would an ant. It isn't like Obito isn't aware of the senjutsu weakness either. He flies away from the fists and dances around Hashirama with speed Perfect Jin Perfect Sage Naruto was having trouble following. Then he blows Shodai up.

There is nothing else to discuss.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 6, 2014)

Fuck, we could make this *mindless* Ten-Tails Jinchuriki Obito, and Hashirama would still  lose soundly.

'_He is stronger than me_!' means just that, folks. Nothing to doubt here like Itachi's statement concerning Jiraiya, since that's dubious given *feats* and iffy character motivations whereas Hashirama had no reason to lie, and whatever mindless Obito demonstrated - in just that brief timeframe - was *already enough* to deem him more powerful than the First Hokage.


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## sabre320 (Dec 6, 2014)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Fuck, we could make this *mindless* Ten-Tails Jinchuriki Obito, and Hashirama would still  lose soundly.
> 
> '_He is stronger than me_!' means just that, folks. Nothing to doubt here like Itachi's statement concerning Jiraiya, since that's dubious given *feats* and iffy character motivations whereas Hashirama had no reason to lie, and whatever mindless Obito demonstrated - in just that brief timeframe - was *already enough* to deem him more powerful than the First Hokage.



Dont fret mate i think most of the people here are trolling...


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 6, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Fist off, bravery ≠ idiocy.


I didn't say or imply otherwise.


> Secondly, "direct confrontation" would result in Hashirama being speed blitzed and chopped in half like Tobirama, the fastest ninja of his (and Hashirama's) time was.


I'd pay to see him try to speed blitz SM Hashirama on top of Shinsenju. Also Tobirama was fastest because of Hirashin. Not because he had the best reaction or body speed.



> And no, Obito will not run into melee range of Senpō: Mokuton: Shin Sūsenju (should Hashirama survive that long) for shits and giggles, particularly because it towers over him like you or I would an ant. It isn't like Obito isn't aware of the senjutsu weakness either.



He did run into melee range of BSM Naruto & PS Sasuke fusion despite the size difference though, and he was aware of his SM weakness. So again, there is no legit reason to assume he'll fly outside Hashirama's effective range and stay there. 



> He flies away from the fists and dances around Hashirama with speed Perfect Jin Perfect Sage Naruto was having trouble following. Then he blows Shodai up.


BSM Naruto and CS Sasuke were tagging him and the sheer size of Shinsenju makes up for its lack of speed, if it does lack it.



> There is nothing else to discuss.



Well, I believe if they decided to duke it out, like Obito thought it was a viable thing to do with Naruto/Sasuke fusion, I believe Hashirama would come out on top.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Dec 6, 2014)

Why is this thread still open?

Hashirama flat-out admitted that a wild, uncontrolled berserker Juubito (who had yet to gain full control of the Ten-Tails and its immense power, and exemplified this by having fewer Truth Seekers than later on) was stronger than him. A fully conscious Juubito would wipe Hashirama off the map, and easily at that. Let's not kid ourselves.

Yes, Madara believed he could take on and defeat Juubito by stealing Hashirama's Sage Mode, but let's not forget that Madara is nearly as powerful as Sage Hashirama on his own, and still needed to steal the latter's Sage Mode to be able to confront Juubito on his own. With the power of natural energy on his side, all of his stats would skyrocket to a whole other level (as demonstrated during his fight against the tailed beasts, roughly 50x or slightly more), amping up his already OP techniques like Tengai Shinsei and Perfect Susano'o to Juubito or possibly even nearly Judara-like power levels - so it's perfectly believable he could take on and beat Juubito in Sage Mode, especially considering that Sage techniques were able to bypass Juubito's durability and the jutsu-nullifying powers of his Truth Seekers, and that Madara apparently knew this info too.

At any rate, if _a non-Sage Madara is Sage Hashirama's near equal,_ _a Sage Madara would absolutely shit and piss on Sage Hashirama look like shit in terms of power,_ so even if the former can take on Juubito and win, it doesn't even guarantee the latter having so much as a _shadow of a chance_ against that same Juubito. It absolutely doesn't.

And please don't compare Hashirama to BSM Naruto, PS Sasuke and nine 'Kurama Mode' shrouded shinobi working in unison. Just don't.

It's implied that BSM Naruto > Sage Hashirama and PS Sasuke > Rinnegan Madara anyway, hence them meeting Hagoromo during their dying moments, something neither Hashirama nor Madara ever did, in spite of both also having died, and in spite of Hagoromo affirming that he can converse with the descendants of Indra and Ashura whenever they are dying (whether or not they are actually going to die, or be saved at the last moment), so long as they are strong enough to call upon his spirit.

If Sage Hashirama went up against BSM Naruto, PS Sasuke and nine 'Kurama Mode' shrouded ninja at once, he'd get atomized in seconds.


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## Rocky (Dec 6, 2014)

Hey, do you remember why the battle even progressed to the stage it did in the manga, Grimm? It was because of Minato's Hiraishin being an incredibly good check to Biju Bomb x4. Since Hashirama isn't teamed up with Minato, there is nothing stopping Obito from resorting to what would have killed Hashirama (and the alliance) before he resorts to a sword that failed him.

As a side note, I want to know why we are giving Hashirama the feats of the two main characters. If that sword really was Obito's "strongest attack," then beating it puts the Naruto and Sasuke fusion shroud far above Hashirama's statue, who could only tie with a much weaker entity than a Jubi Jinchuriki.


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