# California shooting in progress



## makeoutparadise (Dec 2, 2015)

> Police are attending a shooting in California, with reports of 20 victims.
> The San Bernardino Fire Department tweeted that it was responding to a "20 victim shooting incident" and it was working to clear the scene.
> It is still a "very active scene" and police are trying to secure the building, said a spokeswoman from the San Bernardino Police Department.
> There may be up to three gunmen she said, and the shooters were heavily armed and possibly wearing body armour.
> ...



'20 victims' in California shooting
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34987697

Is it too early to talk about gun control yet?


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## blueblip (Dec 2, 2015)

Oh hell no. Any info on where exactly this is taking place?


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## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

This article is inaccurate to where they're wounded, not dead.  I repeat, there are NO deaths.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 2, 2015)

>3 gunmen
>heavily armed
>body armor

idk if this is a gun control issue fam


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## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 2, 2015)

I'm too desensitized to care anymore.

Let me know when the US is ready for gun control.


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## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

MbS said:


> I'm too desensitized to care anymore.
> 
> Let me know when the US is ready for gun control.



Yet you expect people to care about you.


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Dec 2, 2015)

It was the same Syrian refugees who shot up the planned parenting place that did this act of terror on American soil, Americans are so safe and lucky


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## Alwaysmind (Dec 2, 2015)

No it is not too early, it s just outright impossible.


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## bluemiracle (Dec 2, 2015)

MbS said:


> Let me know when the US is ready for gun control.



This.

How many more americans will have to die for something to be done. Seriously.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 2, 2015)

Mael said:


> This article is inaccurate to where they're wounded, not dead.  I repeat, there are NO deaths.



Victims don't have to be dead.
It's an umbrella term for a person who a crime was committed against - whether it be rape, burglary, or libel.


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## Zyrax (Dec 2, 2015)

MbS said:


> I'm too desensitized to care anymore.
> 
> Let me know when the US is ready for gun control.


Cali has the most strict gun control Law in the US you stupid Chav


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## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

bluemiracle said:


> This.
> 
> How many more americans will have to die for something to be done. Seriously.





WAD said:


> Victims don't have to be dead.
> It's an umbrella term for a person who a crime was committed against - whether it be rape, burglary, or libel.



But it helps when you can specify, WAD.

See the above post on who hasn't gotten a fucking clue until it's 100% confirmed.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 2, 2015)

I dunno, I think that's just a sensationalist response


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## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

WAD said:


> I dunno, I think that's just a sensationalist response



It is and it betrays intellect.


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## blueblip (Dec 2, 2015)

Honestly, I don't think the severity of the situation is lessened all that much if no one dies.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 2, 2015)

Zyrax Pasha said:


> Cali has the most strict gun control Law in the US you stupid Chav



What the US calls _strict_ gun controls, Europeans laugh at. 

Australians laugh at... awww hell, you get the point.


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## bluemiracle (Dec 2, 2015)

bubi said:


> Honestly, I don't think the severity of the situation is lessened all that much if no one dies.



Exactly -.- nobody likes to get shot even its not fatal



MbS said:


> What the US calls _strict_ gun controls, Europeans laugh at.



Amen


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## Alwaysmind (Dec 2, 2015)

bluemiracle said:


> This.
> 
> How many more americans will have to die for something to be done. Seriously.



At this rate, to get a job in the U.S. you will need show that you have a gun permit and that you can carry a weapon at all times as a pre-requite for an interview.


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## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

bubi said:


> Honestly, I don't think the severity of the situation is lessened all that much if no one dies.



Yes and no.  In getting points across I think it does matter.  Death is that ultimate sum'bitch that makes the point hit home.  Injuries are the blessing you get from luck, bad aim, or whatever other circumstance.  Of course all I'm asking for is some accuracy in description, not a lessening of severity.


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## blueblip (Dec 2, 2015)

Mael said:


> Yes and no.  In getting points across I think it does matter.  Death is that ultimate sum'bitch that makes the point hit home.  Injuries are the blessing you get from luck, bad aim, or whatever other circumstance.  Of course all I'm asking for is some accuracy in description, not a lessening of severity.



Oh, I got what you were trying to say the first time you said it.

I'm just being pedantic because it's the Cafe.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 2, 2015)

lel typical Zyrax pic deflection.

Any who,

It doesn't matter if you're disabled from the neck down, or that your quality of life is severely impaired or that you're suffering with trauma for the rest of your life.

You're a victim but, hey, at least you're not dead.


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## Utopia Realm (Dec 2, 2015)

Doesn't sound like some random shooting, with multiple shooters and heavily armed at that.


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## Alwaysmind (Dec 2, 2015)

bubi said:


> Oh hell no. Any info on where exactly this is taking place?



1300 block of S. Waterman.




> http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...rt-shooting-san-bernardino-california-n472976
> 
> Police were searching for up to three suspects Wednesday in connection with a mass shooting in San Bernardino, California, where as many as 20 people were wounded.
> 
> ...


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## blueblip (Dec 2, 2015)

MbS said:


> lel typical Zyrax pic deflection
> 
> Any who,
> 
> ...



In Mael's defense, he was criticising the article's lack of accuracy, and not trying to downplay the incident.



Alwaysmind said:


> 1300 block of S. Waterman.
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...rt-shooting-san-bernardino-california-n472976



Danke!

So out in the open. Sounds like they weren't targeting anyone in particular.


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## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

MbS said:


> lel typical Zyrax pic deflection.
> 
> Any who,
> 
> ...



Yet you expect people to treat you like a victim.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 2, 2015)

half the reason i don't want gun control in the US is precisely because of pussified Euroscum.

I shudder to think what our country would be if we had such a weak willed populace.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 2, 2015)

To be fair, I can sort of see why certain Americans are apprehensive about the effectiveness of Gun control.

Europeans, Australians and other nations _wanted_ to implement it. They had the incentive to change.

But certain Americans don't want to change their culture of gun glorification, and that's what's hampering it.

Like Raging Boner.



Mael said:


> Yet you expect people to treat you like a victim.



I am a victim.

Lemme alone.


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## Alwaysmind (Dec 2, 2015)

Reports of 3 dead.


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## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

~Snip~

@Always: Well shit...time to see how the Reuters feeds update this.  But be careful as many sources are citing the Colorado shooting where three died.


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## Zyrax (Dec 2, 2015)

MASON
A
S
O
N


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## makeoutparadise (Dec 2, 2015)

Zyrax Pasha said:


> Cali has the most strict gun control Law in the US you stupid Chav



Let's be honest tho the state with the strictest gun laws in America is like being the least fat person in Mississippi


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## Alwaysmind (Dec 2, 2015)

Mael said:


> No you're not.  You're a cunt hiding behind a psychological disorder.
> 
> @Always: Well shit...time to see how the Reuters feeds update this.  But be careful as many sources are citing the Colorado shooting where three died.



Well, it was a reporter on the scene.


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## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

Other reports saying the suspects are heavily armed with potential explosives.

I don't think this is just some random asshole with an AR-15.


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## Alwaysmind (Dec 2, 2015)

Maybe a a guy who had a complete mental breakdown.


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## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

Alwaysmind said:


> Maybe a a guy who had a complete mental breakdown.



They're saying suspects...not suspect.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 2, 2015)

Mael said:


> They're saying suspects...not suspect.



Maybe they're being PC in addressing an individual with severe disassociative identity disorder.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 2, 2015)

Imagine the fallout if these are Muslim terrorists again.


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## Zyrax (Dec 2, 2015)

makeoutparadise said:


> Let's be honest tho the state with the strictest gun laws in America is like being the least fat person in Mississippi


Yet most Shootings are done by people who their guns illegally


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## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Imagine the fallout if these are Muslim terrorists again.



You can pretty much bet your bottom dollar that any Syrian refugees are going to be blocked without even appeal.


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## Tarot (Dec 2, 2015)

Supposedly there are multiple suspects and the they're heavily armed and clad with body armor.


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## Reyes (Dec 2, 2015)

Keep in mind:


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## $Kakashi$ (Dec 2, 2015)

makeoutparadise said:


> Is it too early to talk about gun control yet?



We shouldn't let the mentally ill buy guns.


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## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

MbS said:


> What the US calls _strict_ gun controls, Europeans laugh at.
> 
> Australians laugh at... awww hell, you get the point.



Yeah, gun control did wonders in Paris and Sydney.  



MbS said:


> To be fair, I can sort of see why certain Americans are apprehensive about the effectiveness of Gun control.



Because it's a freedom?  



> *“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” - Ben Franklin*



There are between 270 and 310 million people in the United States who owns guns, and use them responsibly.  So you want to take away their guns because a few bad apples committing murders?

Even if you took away all guns, there will still be people getting them through black markets, making their own, or finding other ways like making bombs.  Face it people, this is the new society.


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Dec 2, 2015)

Attacking a centre for the disabled? You Americans are something else


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## Alwaysmind (Dec 2, 2015)

Zyrax Pasha said:


> Yet most Shootings are done by people who their guns illegally



Most people who steal do it illegally too. Doesn't mean we should not have laws against stealing.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> Yeah, gun control did wonders in Paris and Sydney.



Those are outliers, this is a terrible argument.


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## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

Still using Ben fucking Franklin, a dead geezer with little foresight into these clusterfucks.


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## Punished Pathos (Dec 2, 2015)

Zyrax Pasha said:


> Yet most Shootings are done by people who their guns illegally



We can't ban criminals? 

We can't ban arms smugglers?


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## Hitt (Dec 2, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Those are outliers, this is a terrible argument.



I'm getting so tired of this bullshit with the far right gun nuts who trot this same bullshit out every time anyone attempts to discuss gun control.

The key is in the title:  Gun _control_.

Not gun prohibition.  No one is banning all guns, it's in the second amendment for Chrissakes.  No one is going to go into your house and take all your guns.  It's not about that and has NEVER been about that.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> That's an excuse.  This happens all around the world more than the media lets on.



Are you really this ignorant? Do you know what an outlier is? Do you know the comparative rate of firearm related violence and homicides in developed countries like France and Australia compared to the United States? Evidently the answer to all these is a resounding "no".


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## Vivo Diez (Dec 2, 2015)

"One death is a tragedy a million is just a statistic"

As edgy as that sounds, rings true in terms of people going up in arms for some kind of cause. Unless Cecil the lion is in the crossfire, I don't see much happening. It's scary that people are getting desensitized to these kinds of shooting because it happens so often now.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 2, 2015)

Hitt said:


> I'm getting so tired of this bullshit with the far right gun nuts who trot this same bullshit out every time anyone attempts to discuss gun control.
> 
> The key is in the title:  Gun _control_.
> 
> Not gun prohibition.  No one is banning all guns, it's in the second amendment for Chrissakes.  No one is going to go into your house and take all your guns.  It's not about that and has NEVER been about that.



Except a sizable portion of people actually want that. Quite a few had and have been vocal in the cafe.

That said, you can't just throw out blanket terms like GUN CONTROL(TM) without expanding on that proposition.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> Yeah, gun control did wonders in Paris and Sydney.



One terrorist related. The other was a mere two people killed. Wanna know why Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since 96? Gun control and the will to implement it. Plus the homicide rate is far lower.

Didn't think this through, eh, shithead?



> Because it's a freedom?



Oh look at this, it's _that_ argument again.

Concerning protecting 'muh rites', certain freedoms that are deemed as protected by the constitution are routinely curtailed in the name of public safety, morality, and why yes, even convenience.

The right to free speech for example is routinely regulated. You can't shout fire in a crowded place when there isn't one, for example. Plus you also have slander, libel, and obscenity laws curtailing freedom of speech. 

What you need to recognise is that personal liberties must be modified for public protection and safety



> Even if you took away all guns, there will still be people getting them through black markets,



We're not talking about, like, prohibition. It's about reducing the availability and ease to purchase.



> making their own, or finding other ways like making bombs or through mass stabbings.



Yawn.

Making Bombs require time and effort and resources that a nut job isn't willing to put in on the spur of the moment, and mass stabbings don't yield the high fatalities that mass shootings do.

Next.


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## Hitt (Dec 2, 2015)

WAD said:


> That said, you can't just throw out blanket terms like GUN CONTROL(TM) without expanding on that proposition.



It has been expanded on in here.  Thousands of times.  It's just that gun nuts don't listen to any of that and start screaming MUH RIGHTS!!!!!1111 the instant anyone tries to clarify anything.  They don't want to listen and are not going to.


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## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Are you really this ignorant? Do you know what an outlier is? Do you know the comparative rate of firearm related violence and homicides in developed countries like France and Australia compared to the United States? Evidently the answer to all these is a resounding "no".



Ah, here we go with the typical liberal shaming and insults to justify your point.  

Go ahead and blame guns til your heart's content, Seto.  You're the ignorant one who blames others and not willing to understand the heart of the matter.   These murders happen because society has changed and there is no longer stigma on human life.  Hatred.  And discrimination.  

These are why mass shootings are more frequent.




Hitt said:


> I'm getting so tired of this bullshit with the far right gun nuts who trot this same bullshit out every time anyone attempts to discuss gun control.
> 
> The key is in the title:  Gun _control_.
> 
> Not gun prohibition.  No one is banning all guns, it's in the second amendment for Chrissakes.  No one is going to go into your house and take all your guns.  It's not about that and has NEVER been about that.



Because it's a slippery slope.  Take away assault rifles and automatic weapons, then more shootings occur, then what?   Only thing left is to take away guns altogether.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 2, 2015)

I have been posting pretty regularly in the cafe for a year now and have _never_ seen anyone expand on it. And I'm not even a 'gun nut', so I dunno.


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## Hwon (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> Yeah, gun control did wonders in Paris and Sydney.



You do realize the homicide rate in those countries is like 3 times lower than the U.S.  That's nearly equivalent to a Paris sized terrorist attack every month for a year just for France to compete with standard U.S. crime rates.


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## WT (Dec 2, 2015)

Nobody seems to be giving a shit about this incident lol

Mention the word Islam and all of a sudden you'll get Twitter, Facebook and Youtube campaigns, celebrities pouring out their hearts on how they all stand together "praying for America", local councils laying down memorial plaques, every western politician visiting America with pictures of them holding hands, a minutes silence every other hour and on and on and on...

On topic - sincerest condolences to the families.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> Ah, here we go with the typical liberal shaming and insults to justify your point.
> 
> Go ahead and blame guns til your heart's content, Seto.  You're the ignorant one who blames others and not willing to understand the heart of the matter.   These murders happen because society has changed and there is no longer stigma on human life.  Hatred.  And discrimination.
> 
> These are why mass shootings are more frequent.



It's not a liberal argument, it's fucking statistical evidence. The United States has considerably more firearm related crimes than any other developed country.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> Because it's a slippery slope. *Take away assault rifles and automatic weapons, then more shootings occur*, then what?



US Gun crime stats would suggest otherwise.


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## bluemiracle (Dec 2, 2015)

WT said:


> Nobody seems to be giving a shit about this incident lol
> 
> Mention the word Islam and all of a sudden you'll get Twitter, Facebook and Youtube campaigns, celebrities pouring out their hearts on how they all stand together "praying for America", local councils laying down memorial plaques, every western politician visiting America with pictures of them holding hands, a minutes silence every other hour and on and on and on...
> 
> On topic - sincerest condolences to the families.



The thing is, this happens nearly every 2 weeks in U.S. and there doesn't seem to be any will about improving their gun policy. At best its the US politicians that don't seem to care about this incident or the others


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## Zyrax (Dec 2, 2015)

>tfw its a mexican and this causes Trump to win in 2016


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## Hitt (Dec 2, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It's not a liberal argument, it's fucking statistical evidence. The United States has considerably more firearm related crimes than any other developed country.



Make sure to include _per capita_ in there otherwise he and others will come back with "US HAS MORE PEOPLE DURRR"


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## Tarot (Dec 2, 2015)

Can we please wait til after the facts are known before going into the usual gun-control brawl? Or do people not give a shit about the actual incident anymore?


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 2, 2015)

Hitt said:


> Make sure to include _per capita_ in there otherwise he and others will come back with "US HAS MORE PEOPLE DURRR"



I would think that wouldn't have to be pointed out...



Death Arcana said:


> Can we please wait til after the facts are known before going into the usual gun-control brawl? Or do people not give a shit about the actual incident anymore?



"Now's not the time guys, a tragedy just happened!"


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## Zyrax (Dec 2, 2015)

Death Arcana said:


> Can we please wait til after the facts are known before going into the usual gun-control brawl? Or do people not give a shit about the actual incident anymore?


Most people here care more about their agenda than the victims


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## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

Mael said:


> Oh shut up.  He fought for freedom of representation, not for us to all have military-grade weaponry because we FEEL it proper.
> 
> Everyone quotes Ben like he's cognizant of Islamic terrorism and an excess of weaponry ownership.  You're the friend who thinks that sensibility and registry that benefit the common good rustle your individualist jimmies and are thus fascist.
> 
> Fuck you, dude.



Oh so Ben Franklin doesn't know Islamic Terrorism?  Look up the Barbary Pirates asshole.  He's the one that pitched the creation of the US Marines to fight Muslim pirates!

And it's funny you blame assault rifles and we don't even know yet they even used them!




MbS said:


> One terrorist related. The other was a mere two people killed. Wanna know why Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since 96? Gun control and the will to implement it. Plus the homicide rate is far lower.
> 
> Didn't think this through, eh, shithead?



How ironic you calling me a shithead when you're the idiot who says it was "one" terrorism related.   There been two confirmed ISIS attacks on Paris (remember Charlie Hebdo?), and the attack on Sydney was an ISIS sympathizer.



> Oh look at this, it's _that_ argument again.
> 
> Concerning protecting 'muh rites', certain freedoms that are deemed as protected by the constitution are routinely curtailed in the name of public safety, morality, and why yes, even convenience.
> 
> ...



You really think taking away guns is really going to stop this? 



> We're not talking about, like, prohibition. It's about reducing the availability and ease to purchase.



You don't even know yet how these shooters even got their guns yet.   And you're already jumping to conclusions.



> Yawn.
> 
> Making Bombs require time and effort and resources that a nut job isn't willing to put in on the spur of the moment, and mass stabbings don't yield the high fatalities that mass shootings do.
> 
> Next.



And how many of these shootings were really "spur of the moment"?


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## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

So apparently the shooters are in military-style gear and clothing according to police.

This is the kind of shit you see where you have to start cracking down.  Frankly I'm finding individual freedoms overrated if it keeps presenting a public danger.


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## $Kakashi$ (Dec 2, 2015)

>ITT: WAHHHH TAKE AWAY GUNS

>Implying somehow taking away legal guns is going to stop criminals
>People who are already breaking the law
>Somehow making them illegal/limiting them is going to stop someone already breaking the law


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## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> Oh so Ben Franklin doesn't know Islamic Terrorism?  Look up the Barbary Pirates asshole.  He's the one that pitched the creation of the US Marines to fight them!





Ben Franklin died in 1790 you fucking idiot.  The Marines engaged the pirates in 1801.

You are a fucking moron.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 2, 2015)

$Kakashi$ said:


> >ITT: WAHHHH TAKE AWAY GUNS
> 
> >Implying somehow taking away legal guns is going to stop criminals
> >People who are already breaking the law
> >Somehow making them illegal/limiting them is going to stop someone already breaking the law



It has worked every other time, so yeah. There is a significant difference in the gun violence and homicide rates between countries that enacted and enforced their gun laws compared to the United States. I don't even believe in prohibiting guns, and I can acknowledge that. 

~snip~


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## Tarot (Dec 2, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> "Now's not the time guys, a tragedy just happened!"


I wouldn't even know if it's a tragedy or not. I cam to this thread to get facts about the shootings and then form opinions after the facts. I'm not sure what is wrong with that. You people are getting riled up before you even know what is going on.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 2, 2015)

Death Arcana said:


> I wouldn't even know if it's a tragedy or not. I cam to this thread to get facts about the shootings and then form opinions after the facts. I'm not sure what is wrong with that. You people are getting riled up before you even know what is going on.



People are getting fucking shot. What more do you need to know to discuss the issue of gun control?


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## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> Oh so Ben Franklin doesn't know Islamic Terrorism?  Look up the Barbary Pirates asshole.  He's the one that pitched the creation of the US Marines to fight them!
> 
> And it's funny you blame assault rifles and we don't even know yet they even used them!
> 
> How ironic you calling me a shithead when you're the idiot who says it was "one" terrorism related.   When there been two confirmed ISIS attacks on Paris, and the attack on Sydney was an ISIS sympathizer.



/Appeal to authority.

Fuck off.

Oh, and Franklin died ten years before the Marines engaged the pirates. The more you know.



> You really think taking away guns is really going to stop this?
> 
> You don't even know yet how these shooters even got their guns yet.   And you're already jumping to conclusions.



_Gun control_, works. Yeah.

And no one is talking about banning guns, dumbshit



> And how many of these shootings were really "spur of the moment"?



Why do you think mass shootings are far more common then bombs? Because guns are more readily available and purchasable. Making a bomb and acquiring the material is significantly harder. If somebody snaps, what do think they're going for first?


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## Pliskin (Dec 2, 2015)

>Stop talking now, wait until after the tragedy you pricks

That would make sense, if these things wouldnt happen on the regular. As it stands, arguing like that is equivalent to asking to stop arguing at all.


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## blueblip (Dec 2, 2015)

Mael said:


> Don't bother...the guy's a tried and true idiot.



I know. I mean, it's not like I asked a new question - it's been asked as many times as his argument has been trotted out.

But I'm an optimist and am still holding out on someone answering it.


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## Alwaysmind (Dec 2, 2015)

Sorta relevant comedy sketches for Tyrannos here.
[YOUTUBE]0rR9IaXH1M0[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]a9UFyNy-rw4[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]3Bm5sDfaqSU[/YOUTUBE]


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## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

Mael said:


> Ben Franklin died in 1790 you fucking idiot.  The Marines engaged the pirates in 1801.
> 
> You are a fucking moron.



That was the First Barbary War you fucking moron! The Barbary Pirates existed hundreds of years before that! 





> The Barbary threat led directly to the United States founding the United States Navy in March 1794.



Where Ben Franklin, before his death, negotiated the Treaty of Alliance in 1778 with France that was partially due to the Barbary Pirates!

Know your history dude!  



MbS said:


> Why do you think mass shootings are far more common then bombs? Because guns are more readily available and purchasable. Making a bomb and acquiring the material is significantly harder. If somebody snaps, what do think they're going for first?



Right now they blew up a suspicious device in fears it was a bomb.  So just find it interesting you say bombs aren't easy to make and yet the police were concerned they were used in the last two shootings. 



Alwaysmind said:


> Sorta relevant comedy sketches for Tyrannos here.
> [YOUTUBE]0rR9IaXH1M0[/YOUTUBE]
> [YOUTUBE]a9UFyNy-rw4[/YOUTUBE]
> [YOUTUBE]3Bm5sDfaqSU[/YOUTUBE]



I laughed.

But it's funny at the end of the second video he talks about it making sense when it was muskets, but not when people have ARs againt Drones.   Then again if the US uses drones against citizens who disagree.......that's not tyrany?


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> That was the First Barbary War you fucking moron!   The Barbary Pirates existed hundreds of years before that!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You just changed your argument.


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## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You just changed your argument.



Didn't know talking about Barbary Pirates changed my mind about gun control.


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## Black Wraith (Dec 2, 2015)

Oh, look. Another mass shooting in America.

Like Obama said last time. You guys need to do something to stop this instead of keeping the status quo the same.


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## santanico (Dec 2, 2015)

my family lives near there.


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## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos movin' them goalposts.

Just keep failing son.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> See Above.



I did. And aside from changing your argument, it's still blatant appeal to authority.



> Um, yes you are.  Not guns in general, but you are talking about it.  So yeah.



What the actual fuck. 

If I'm not talking about guns, then what else am I going to be talking about?

Gun control is not about banning guns. Otherwise we'd be talking about _actually_ banning guns altogether.



> You never know.
> 
> Enough derailing.



Concession accepted.

Piss off.


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## santanico (Dec 2, 2015)

just got off the phone with my mother, and apparently my little sister's school is still on lock down


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## Tarot (Dec 2, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> People are getting fucking shot. What more do you need to know to discuss the issue of gun control?


Once the the situation has been better clarified and it turns out that it's more lone crazies who easily got a hold of military-grade equipment, then yes, it's time to bring up the gun control topic again. Anything beforehand is a knee-jerk reaction. I prefer to know what's going on before I start making conclusions.


----------



## Suigetsu (Dec 2, 2015)

I hope no hot chicks get harmed, nor anyone else for that matter.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Dec 2, 2015)

14 dead people


----------



## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

Jesus fucking Christ.

I know it goes against logic but I really wanna know what sort of scumbags plot these sorts of things (I know Islamic radicals do but there's a 20% chance of them here).


----------



## blueblip (Dec 2, 2015)

Death Arcana said:


> Once the the situation has been better clarified and it turns out that it's more lone crazies who easily got a hold of military-grade equipment, then yes, it's time to bring up the gun control topic again. Anything beforehand is a knee-jerk reaction. I prefer to know what's going on before I start making conclusions.



What difference does it make if it's a lone crazy person or a group of people with an ideology? The point here is that there are people who really shouldn't have access to firearms getting access to firearms. The only way to prevent that from happening is to create a system similar to obtaining a driver's license, ie. testing a person's ability to use a gun, their knowledge on firearm safety, and a psych evaluation. Fail any one of those, you don't get a gun.

This isn't a kneejerk reaction - these attacks are happening with alarming regularity. When, pray tell, would it be okay to talk about it? After this shooting? After the next? After the shooting continue to increase in number for five more years?


----------



## Lord Trollbias (Dec 2, 2015)




----------



## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

Surely Ben Franklin would honor these brave men for upholding their Second Amendment rights to be armed to the fucking teeth past the point of logic.  Am I right, Tyrannos?

Wow and I was hoping not to be angry today.  ~snip~


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 2, 2015)

So we still don't know who did it?


----------



## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> So we still don't know who did it?



No, check your news feeds.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 2, 2015)

Looks like the suspect's vehicle has been found and there may be one dead suspect.


----------



## Xyloxi (Dec 2, 2015)

Mael said:


> Surely Ben Franklin would honor these brave men for upholding their Second Amendment rights to be armed to the fucking teeth past the point of logic.  Am I right, Tyrannos?
> 
> Wow and I was hoping not to be angry today.  Way to kill the mood you stupid fuck.



Obviously the tree of liberty isn't going to water itself Mael, God, think like an patriot for fuck's sake.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 2, 2015)

One suspect down confirmed.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 2, 2015)

I doubt they are...but oh man if it's ISIS related.

Checkmate Obeezy; shove your Syrian Pilgrims up that ass.


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

Mael said:


> Surely Ben Franklin would honor these brave men for upholding their Second Amendment rights to be armed to the fucking teeth past the point of logic.  Am I right, Tyrannos?
> 
> Wow and I was hoping not to be angry today.



Go ahead and keep villianizing me or whomever you want til your heart contents, because badmouthing people isn't going to stop gun violence.  Because sometimes it actually causes it through provocation.


But these murders look like it's disgruntled employees and not right-wing nutjobs as you love it to be.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 2, 2015)

All suspects deceased or in custody!


----------



## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> Go ahead and keep villianizing me or whomever you want til your heart contents, because badmouthing people isn't going to stop gun violence.  Because sometimes it actually causes it through provocation.
> 
> 
> But these murders look like it's disgruntled employees and not right-wing nutjobs as you love it to be.



I'd prefer it just not happen but hey here's the result of folks not being registered and not raising alarms buying military grade equipment and body armor no logical person needs.

But keep pushing the sales of it, you fucking dipshit.


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

Mael said:


> I'd prefer it just not happen but hey here's the result of folks not being registered and not raising alarms buying military grade equipment and body armor no logical person needs.
> 
> But keep pushing the sales of it, you fucking dipshit.



Source?   Because I don't think the details of what they had has been released at this time.

And Military-grade equipment, I'm pretty sure you need an FFL license for that kind of stuff.  And that's tougher to get than a concealed license.


----------



## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> Source?   Because I don't think the details of what they had has been released at this time.
> 
> And Military-grade equipment, I'm pretty sure you need an FFL license for that kind of stuff.  And that's tougher to get than a concealed license.



Body Armor.

BODY. ARMOR.

And heavy weaponry that in some places is open for sale thanks to folks like you.

I'm sure there wasn't even a call for a registry.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 2, 2015)

One of the suspects is now currently on the run, but two out of three are neutralized.


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

Mael said:


> Body Armor.
> 
> BODY. ARMOR.
> 
> ...



Funny, I don't recall ever voting for anything that allowed easy access to "Heavy Weaponry".  

But hey, whine all you want and blaming me for your own lack of action.  Because it's not easy to get legal heavy / military weaponry as you make it out to be.   Legally it takes 1 week for a normal background check, where concealed takes a month, and FFL or ATF checks can take up to 6 months.   Guess that's not good enough for you I guess.

I doubt even with mandatory mental health checks every year, it wouldn't be enough for you.  But hey, you're people didn't get nearly wiped out due to guns.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 2, 2015)

right, can someone spare me the chore of sifting through six pages of "muh gun control" and give me some news as to what we know for a fact has happened?


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> right, can someone spare me the chore of sifting through six pages of "muh gun control" and give me some news as to what we know for a fact has happened?



Better give it a few hours, no details yet except 14 dead.  One murder taken out, and a second in a standoff.


----------



## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> right, can someone spare me the chore of sifting through six pages of "muh gun control" and give me some news as to what we know for a fact has happened?




Three heavily armed individuals packing serious firepower and body armor shot up a social services center for the developmentally disabled.
What started out as twenty injured now equals fourteen dead and seventeen wounded.
Massive SWAT manhunt for the perps.
They found one in the suspects' SUV and shot him dead.
Another other suspect has I think been taken into custody.  One is still on the loose.
No IDs have been given.


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 2, 2015)

Also it appeared to happen in a social services center...apparently specifically one for individuals with developmental disorders.

Edit: ninja'd by mael


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> Better give it a few hours, no details yet except 14 dead.  One murder taken out, and a second in a standoff.



Cool, what do we know about the shooters?

well 





> no ids given


 answers that, so thanks

Prayers for the families of the affected, I know what you're going through


----------



## Utopia Realm (Dec 2, 2015)

Kinda worried about finding out who these scum buckets are.


----------



## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

> "Everyone dropped to the floor. The guys opened fired for 30 seconds, randomly, then paused to reload and began firing again."
> 
> One victim, 27-year-old Denise Peraza, told relatives by phone that two men dressed all in black and wearing black face masks had entered the holiday party and started shooting, according to the Los Angeles Times. Peraza was hiding under a desk when she was shot once in the lower back, the newspaper said.



This was from a local source.

The black masks obviously don't help but this really doesn't look like something entirely random.  Nope...pretty much planned.


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 2, 2015)

Well, if they were ISIS or radical Islamists they would have blown themselves up.

Since it was at a social services center, and the media is hedging in releasing their identities...

Odds are on them not being white.


----------



## Vermilion Kn (Dec 2, 2015)

> Kinda worried about finding out who these scum buckets are.



It's bugging me as well. We are all thinking it, if these shooters were of any other race other than being of middle eastern descend a name would have been released by now. If that is the case.....oh boy, shit is going to hit the fan big time.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Dec 2, 2015)

One is in custody


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 2, 2015)

Apparently, one of the suspects may have been a disgruntled employee from the Inland Regional Center.


----------



## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

> Officer wounded in pursuit with suspect, but suspected to recover. Two suspects killed: one male, one female - both were armed with assault rifles and handguns.





Dat toxic masculinity. (this is an attack on McIntosh and Anita Snarkeesian)


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 2, 2015)

>Female Driver

That probably rules out ISIS


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 2, 2015)

Money on them being black


----------



## KidTony (Dec 2, 2015)

Here's a statistic for you:

-Americans = 4% of World's population
-American Civilians =42% of World's Guns.

Let that sink in a bit.


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

Reports have it that one was a person named Farooq Saeed.   FBI now investigating possible terrorism links.




New Details at 8 PM PST report.


----------



## KidTony (Dec 2, 2015)

@ChristopherHayes
Officer says no indication it's "terrorism in the traditional sense people might be thinking of" which is a hell of a euphemism.


Take that for what is worth, but it appears to be "domestic" terrorism.

edit: that tweet is dated info btw


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 2, 2015)

Mass shootings in USA are barely even news at this point.

It's like posting about terrorist bombings in middle east.

Not surprising at all anymore.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 2, 2015)

Sayeed Farouk seems to be the reported name of one of the suspects


----------



## Tenrol (Dec 2, 2015)

oh look, people getting shot at in usa...why is this newsworthy again?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 2, 2015)

Any recent news or updates?


----------



## KidTony (Dec 2, 2015)

Farouq Saeed seems to be legit. Also, at least 1 explosive found.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 2, 2015)

No motives yet or identities of the other suspects?


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 2, 2015)

second shooter suspected to be farouk's brother

No ID on the female


----------



## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

Jesus some folks are gonna have a field day with this...


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

CNN's now downplaying this as Workplace Violence than Terrorism or Domestic Terrorism.


----------



## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> CNN's now downplaying this as Workplace Violence than Terrorism or Domestic Terrorism.



As well as they should since motives haven't been established yet.


----------



## Alwaysmind (Dec 2, 2015)

Well I did say that this looked like an episode of mental breakdown. And fro. What I get here on this thread, looks like I am not that far off.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 2, 2015)

yeah, 14 dead is a little more severe than "workplace violence".

that's a fucking murder spree.


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

Mael said:


> As well as they should since motives haven't been established yet.



It's pretty obvious what the motives was - Murder.



RAGING BONER said:


> yeah, 14 dead is a little more severe than "workplace violence".
> 
> that's a fucking murder spree.



Exactly.

Just funny this is "workplace violence" but that Planned Parenthood shooting of 3 people a few weeks ago was "Domestic terrorism".


----------



## NeoTerraKnight (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> It's pretty obvious what the motives was - Murder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It has to be political. PP shooter said "No more baby parts". Gee, where do you think THAT come from?


----------



## Mael (Dec 2, 2015)

Alwaysmind said:


> Well I did say that this looked like an episode of mental breakdown. And fro. What I get here on this thread, looks like I am not that far off.



No it didn't.  This was calculated and with multiple suspects.


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> It has to be political. PP shooter said "No more baby parts". Gee, where do you think THAT come from?



Well no duh, the guy was out of his gourd.  So he deserves the Domestic Terrorism charges.   But this, like RB said, is beyond workplace violence.

Heck, why is it that every time Muslims are involved mass shootings in the US it's "Workplace violence"?    Call an Apple and Apple, not an Orange.


----------



## KidTony (Dec 2, 2015)

what are you even talking about guy. There's zero chance that if this turns out to be muslim radicals, that the media will not absolutely go shit crazy over it. There's literally zero chance of this being downplayed if it turns out is related to islamist extremists. Your literally manufacturing a narrative that doesn't exist, when exactly has the media ever downplayed radical muslim terrorism, specially on U.S soil? Give me an example.


----------



## N120 (Dec 2, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> Well no duh, the guy was out of his gourd.  So he deserves the Domestic Terrorism charges.   But this, like RB said, is beyond workplace violence.
> 
> Heck, why is it that every time Muslims are involved mass shootings in the US it's "Workplace violence"?    Call an Apple and Apple, not an Orange.



911/Boston weren't described as workplace violence. Forte hood is the only debatable point considering what came out of it, but it's Misplaced to say "every time"...this doesn't happen every-time. (By which I mean both the media narrative treading lightly/Muslim mass shootings)


----------



## Jake CENA (Dec 2, 2015)

"You no like sharia? We kill you!!"


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

KidTony said:


> what are you even talking about guy. There's zero chance that if this turns out to be muslim radicals, that the media will not absolutely go shit crazy over it. There's literally zero chance of this being downplayed if it turns out is related to islamist extremists. Your literally manufacturing a narrative that doesn't exist, when exactly has the media ever downplayed radical muslim terrorism, specially on U.S soil? Give me an example.



Never said they were radicals or extremists.  

But you don't have to be labeled a radical or an extremist for "domestic terrorism" charges.



N120 said:


> 911/Boston weren't described as workplace violence. Forte hood is the only debatable point considering what came out of it, but it's Misplaced to say "every time"...this doesn't happen every-time. (By which I mean both the media narrative treading lightly/Muslim mass shootings)



True, Boston was Terrorism.    

But you're forgetting the Tennessee Recruiting Center attack, that Oklahoma Muslim who beheaded a co-worker at the meat-packing center, as well as Major Hassan's attack at Fort Hood, all was regarded as "Workplace Violence".


----------



## KidTony (Dec 2, 2015)

Who saying this isn't domestic terrorism? Where' this coverage you've been talking about? I'm not seeing it anywhere....


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 2, 2015)

New details:

Syed Farook was an Inspector with the County Health department and a US Citizen.  Owner of the Black SUV.

Second Shooter is Tayyeep Bin Ardogan, and is from Qatar.




KidTony said:


> Who saying this isn't domestic terrorism? Where' this coverage you've been talking about? I'm not seeing it anywhere....



No, they are calling it workplace violence.


----------



## Destroyer of Kittens (Dec 3, 2015)

Workplace violence generally involves a lone dude going postal after some percieved slight.

It generally doesnt involve A lone dude recruiting a few people and going "hey.  these guys are assholes.  Lets Go massacre them and plant explosives"  

How often do several disgruntled employees get together and massacre their coworkers?  Yeah.  This is Islamic Terrorism.  Now.  whether its the Homegrown variety or the International variety remains to be seen.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 3, 2015)

Destroyer of Kittens said:


> Workplace violence generally involves a lone dude going postal after some percieved slight.
> 
> It generally doesnt involve A lone dude recruiting a few people and going "hey.  these guys are assholes.  Lets Go massacre them and plant explosives"
> 
> How often do several disgruntled employees get together and massacre their coworkers?  Yeah.  This is Islamic Terrorism.  Now.  whether its the Homegrown variety or the International variety remains to be seen.


How is it Islamic Terrorism, just because of the guys names? We have no clue on their motive.


----------



## Destroyer of Kittens (Dec 3, 2015)

Self radicalization is a thing ala the boston bombers.  If this was one person who shot up a area then It very well could have been workplace violence.  But its not...  Sooo Since we have multiple people there is most likely a ideology behind it.

Soooo..   As the Great Bill Maher said...   Its probably not the amish.

Its like that whole abortion clinic shooting....  People tried to come up with all the possible motives and try to make it fit their narrative to be anything but rightwing extremist terrorism..  but the writing was on the wall....  Same here.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 3, 2015)

Destroyer of Kittens said:


> Self radicalization is a thing ala the boston bombers.  If this was one person who shot up a area then It very well could have been workplace violence.  But its not...  Sooo Since we have multiple people there is most likely a ideology behind it.
> 
> Soooo..   As the Great Bill Maher said...   Its probably not the amish.
> 
> Its like that whole abortion clinic shooting....  People tried to come up with all the possible motives and try to make it fit their narrative to be anything but rightwing extremist terrorism..  but the writing was on the wall....  Same here.


What about the fight that was reported between Fasood and the employees of his workplace then?


----------



## makeoutparadise (Dec 3, 2015)

We should just put up a sign that says "X" amount of days since last accident shooting


----------



## Destroyer of Kittens (Dec 3, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> What about the fight that was reported between Fasood and the employees of his workplace then?



Its not unheard of that self radicalized people target workplaces.

But this was a prepared hit against this place for whatever reason.  I have a hard time believing moments after a fight with coworkers this white collar dude was able to recruit 2 other people to go on a murder suicidal rampage unless there was a underlying ideology behind it.  Though It is always possible.  After all.  Colombine happened and it wasnt terrorism so its possible I guess.

Its possible that Him storming out was the signal to his co-conspirators.  

Its possible that he went to the meeting to make sure a specific person was there... ala a really sloppy assassination with shitloads of collateral.

If i was a betting person...  Im betting self radicalization..  I doubt this is ISIS controlled


----------



## Chelydra (Dec 3, 2015)

CNN confirms one of the suspects was Syed Farook... The other two are dead.


----------



## KidTony (Dec 3, 2015)

Apparently there were only two people, and both are dead. He used to work at the place he targeted it seems.


----------



## Destroyer of Kittens (Dec 3, 2015)

KidTony said:


> Apparently there were only two people, and both are dead. He used to work at the place he targeted it seems.



was he the one who stormed out?  Damn.  if so he got lucky.


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 3, 2015)

Destroyer of Kittens said:


> was he the one who stormed out?  Damn.  if so he got lucky.



Depends, didn't California get rid of the Death Penality?



Destroyer of Kittens said:


> Its not unheard of that self radicalized people target workplaces.
> 
> But this was a prepared hit against this place for whatever reason.  I have a hard time believing moments after a fight with coworkers this white collar dude was able to recruit 2 other people to go on a murder suicidal rampage unless there was a underlying ideology behind it.  Though It is always possible.  After all.  Colombine happened and it wasnt terrorism so its possible I guess.
> 
> ...



Yeah, my guess someone said something at work that set him off and decided to kill him/her at the party, where the supervisor was making an appearance.  Two birds, one stone.

While likely not radicalized, he likely said "fuck it" and decided to go down that route since he likely wasn't going to make it.  


Now we just need to learn what set him off and how he managed to get the gear.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Dec 3, 2015)

Another set of middle eastern names to burn infamy. 
One more mass shooting perpetuating our country's insanity.
After 240 years still finding the right balance of safety,rights and liberty.
It could've happened to you,it could've happened to me.
For many, effects from those long barreled guns has only yet begun 
With pain as dark as the pit, and sorrow deep as the ocean.​


----------



## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Dec 3, 2015)

Wow this is horrible.


----------



## Megaharrison (Dec 3, 2015)

I suspect the press is going to bury this story and Barry will suddenly shut up about it now that they've been identified as Muslims


----------



## blueblip (Dec 3, 2015)

You need to up your game, Mega. At this point we can actually predict, verbatim, what you're going to say. I expect more out of you than this.


----------



## ? (Dec 3, 2015)

To think my sister-in-law worked at that center a couple weeks ago.


----------



## Megaharrison (Dec 3, 2015)

The shooter's wife was also his sister. These fucking people I swear 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glW59FqGLxk[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## stream (Dec 3, 2015)

makeoutparadise said:


> We should just put up a sign that says "X" amount of days since last accident shooting



According to the New York Times, X will never have two digits:


There's basically more than one per day on average. That's only counting shootings making at least four victims, though that can mean just wounded.


----------



## WT (Dec 3, 2015)

Megaharrison said:


> The shooter's wife was also his sister. These fucking people I swear
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glW59FqGLxk[/YOUTUBE]



The fucking lannisters....


----------



## Alwaysmind (Dec 3, 2015)

stream said:


> According to the New York Times, X will never have two digits:
> 
> 
> There's basically more than one per day on average. That's only counting shootings making at least four victims, though that can mean just wounded.



Or even day 2 or 3


----------



## Mael (Dec 3, 2015)

*NY Daily News cover blasts Republicans for only offering 'prayers' after CA shooting*



> The Daily News has another hard-hitting cover on the gun-control issue.
> 
> On Wednesday night, the New York tabloid published an early look at its Thursday cover, which takes Congress to task for its inaction in the aftermath of mass shootings.
> 
> ...




Good for NY Daily despite its penchant for sensationalism.  Offering prayers is a cop-out.


----------



## Amanda (Dec 3, 2015)

Self-raficalization or not, this just underlines how badly those pathetic Texas ISIS wannabe-terrorists dropped the ball. 

How hard it is just to pick a random group of people and kill 'em? Not very. At this rate I think even I could do it.

So someone is making drawings of Muhammed? Don't attack the convention, attack the random shopping mall or kindergarten next to it, blast them dead, cry glory to Allah. Job done. 

Anyway, it seems like these two were prepared for something more? They tried to run and were still heavily armed.

Then again, the Boston bombers tried to run aswell. Perhaps they didn't want to meet their Maker themselves...


----------



## SLB (Dec 3, 2015)

cnn analyst flat out saying "well my research shows shooters are quite prevalent among extremists"



yo just wait for more info like a good news station pls


----------



## Megaharrison (Dec 3, 2015)

Moody said:


> cnn analyst flat out saying "well my research shows shooters are quite prevalent among extremists"
> 
> 
> 
> yo just wait for more info like a good news station pls



As Obama has said, we all need to politicize this tragedy and call our legislators. We need to regulate Muslims


----------



## Random Stranger (Dec 3, 2015)

Can somebody help clear this up for me?

Are they shooters that just happen to be muslims or were religious motivations behind the shootings? Or is there not enough info yet to state either way?


----------



## Mael (Dec 3, 2015)

Random Stranger said:


> Can somebody help clear this up for me?
> 
> Are they shooters that just happen to be muslims or were religious motivations behind the shootings? Or is there not enough info yet to state either way?



Not enough evidence and knowledge to establish motive.

They're both Arab though but the dead male is US-born.

However CBS had this to say:


> JUST IN: Shooting suspect Syed Farook had traveled to Saudi Arabia to apparently attend Hajj pilgrimage, intelligence source tells CBS News.




So he is Muslim and he did recently go to SA.  SA is the heart of Wahabbi/Salafi terror encouragement.


----------



## Black Superman (Dec 3, 2015)

Arab=White, we've already gone over this.


----------



## Saishin (Dec 3, 2015)

Je suis California,oh fuck enough with this shit,not again


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 3, 2015)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> Arab=White, we've already gone over this.



have you met fang?

you two are gonna be friends


----------



## Audible Phonetics (Dec 3, 2015)

The irony of this is amazing.


----------



## Mael (Dec 3, 2015)

> U.S House Minority Leader Pelosi says mass shootings show need for Congress to pass mental health legislation that is "true and real"




Jesus Christ, Nancy.


----------



## Megaharrison (Dec 3, 2015)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> Arab=White, we've already gone over this.



It's hilarious you consider Egyptians black, but Arabs white.


----------



## Zyrax (Dec 3, 2015)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> Arab=White, we've already gone over this.


>tfw white


anyway Fuck those three, wahhabi cunts 
Although I don't sympathies with the Syrian Refugees who COULD have stayed in Jordan, Lebanon or Turkey but decieded to go to Europe or America for free welfare, So I kind of have no problem with this blocking them as cold hearted as this sounds


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 3, 2015)

Mael said:


> Not enough evidence and knowledge to establish motive.
> 
> They're both Arab though but the dead male is US-born.
> 
> ...



That sounds a bit sensationalist to me though. Traveling to Mecca is something all Muslims are encouraged to do, and many do so at least once in their lives. That in itself is not an indication of radicalization. I'm not ruling it out but you need more than that.


----------



## Mael (Dec 3, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> That sounds a bit sensationalist to me though. Traveling to Mecca is something all Muslims are encouraged to do, and many do so at least once in their lives. That in itself is not an indication of radicalization. I'm not ruling it out but you need more than that.



Obviously, but a US-born guy with no criminal record going there, coming back, and then this...it creates bonafide suspicion.


----------



## blueblip (Dec 3, 2015)

Mael said:


> Obviously, but a US-born guy with no criminal record going there, coming back, and then this...it creates bonafide suspicion.



It's more likely his radicalisation began in the US itself. Those Haj pilgrimages are way too hectic to pack in some off time to mingle with jihadis in Wahhabi land. He might have been the sort of guy who ran in extremist circles right here in the States itself.


----------



## Oceania (Dec 3, 2015)

Mass shootings happens then like clockwork people start screaming GUN CONTROL GUN CONTROL!!!!! Now look I'm not a gun nut, I don't really like guns. But haven't most of these types of shootings happen in "Gun Free" zones? So the reality of it is stricter guns laws and taking guns away aren't going to stop these things from happening.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 3, 2015)

Flawed fucking logic.


----------



## baconbits (Dec 3, 2015)

Mael said:


> Good for NY Daily despite its penchant for sensationalism.  Offering prayers is a cop-out.



No, it isn't.  Its a legitimate response of concern from people that care.  I've offered prayers myself.


----------



## Mael (Dec 3, 2015)

baconbits said:


> No, it isn't.  Its a legitimate response of concern from people that care.  I've offered prayers myself.



You're different.  You're not a politician.  

These are the folks who are expected to say more, do more, cooperate more.

Just offering prayers and nothing else in terms of addressing key issues rings hollow...at least to me it does.


----------



## Oceania (Dec 3, 2015)

Mael said:


> You're different.  You're not a politician.
> 
> These are the folks who are expected to say more, do more, cooperate more.
> 
> Just offering prayers and nothing else in terms of addressing key issues rings hollow...at least to me it does.



I disagree with offering prayers as being a cop-out. But at the same time, you have people in positions of power to do something about this problem. Its like when someone is sick in the hospital, you offer prayers for the person to get better, then you pray for the doctors to use their skills and abilities to handle and take care of the problem. People with the power to do something can offer prayers but at the same time use the power they have to fix the said issue.


----------



## baconbits (Dec 3, 2015)

I just don't see an even handed response to gun violence.  When I look at my city, Milwaukee and Chicago, I see criminals who use guns repeatedly making deals that have the gun charges dropped.  In other words we have cities run by Democrats and liberals and the first thing they do is drop gun charges when they catch people using guns illegally. 

But these are the same people that go to congress, the state houses and city halls across the country and want to pass more gun regulation.  There's a big disconnect and few people talk about it.

The truth of the matter is that the gun laws are fine now.  The penalties for gun crimes should be upheld and stop being bargained away by prosecutors; straw deals need to be prosecuted more intensely.  The vast majority of gun crimes occur not in these mass shootings but in the day to day violence in our cities, violence so common most people refuse to pay any attention to it.


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 3, 2015)

Mael said:


> You're different.  You're not a politician.
> 
> These are the folks who are expected to say more, do more, cooperate more.
> 
> Just offering prayers and nothing else in terms of addressing key issues rings hollow...at least to me it does.



You're complaining about the Republican candidates offering "thoughts and prayers" before we even learned details about this massacre?   All while Hillary and her friends immediately jumped out on Twitter and said this was gun violence, within minutes of news hitting?  

Wait til the dust has settled to analyze the situation and see what could you do as a governor or congressman to take action.  You expect them to immediately rush to the capital and go "fix guns laws now!"  It doesn't work that way, it's what legislature is about.


----------



## Mael (Dec 3, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> Wait, your complaining about the Republican candidates offering "thoughts and prayers" before we even learned details about this massacre?   All while Hillary and her friends immediately jumped out and said this was gun violence, within minutes of news hitting?



It is gun violence.  People died from firearms.

At least they're dealing with the corporeal and tangible even if they're not 100% on it.

Dude I'm not going to discuss this further from a guy who has to alter his goals despite being clearly wrong in history of all fucking things.


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 3, 2015)

Mael said:


> It is gun violence.  People died from firearms.
> 
> At least they're dealing with the corporeal and tangible even if they're not 100% on it.



Dude, this is more than simple gun violence.  These people were newb terrorists who planned more than just shooting up a Christmas Party.  They had bombs!  A LOT of Bombs!



Mael said:


> Dude I'm not going to discuss this further from a guy who has to alter his goals despite being clearly wrong in history of all fucking things.



You're just butthurt these ended up as Muslim extremists and not some right-wing nut job.


----------



## Mael (Dec 3, 2015)

I'm bummed out people died, jackass.


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 3, 2015)

Thought you wasn't going to respond to me, Mael?  

Look, I'm not happy about people dying either.  But given what we know now, even if there was an assault weapons ban, it wouldn't have changed this outcome.  So all these pages about gun violence just was rhetoric and knee-jerking.

Though to a certain someone a few pages ago, that said my comment about bombs was stupid.  Well guess what, it almost happened.  They had bombs and thankfully they sucked at bomb making, else those 14 casualties would've been 31 or more.

Times have changed and we as a society have to be vigilant.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Dec 3, 2015)

Acordding to the BBC "The attack in San Bernardino was the 353rd  mass shooting this year." if we have 3 more we'd basically would have had one for every day of the year.


----------



## Mael (Dec 3, 2015)

There's 365 days a year.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 3, 2015)

> Though to a certain someone a few pages ago, that said my comment about bombs was stupid.  *Well guess what, it almost happened.  They had bombs and thankfully they sucked at bomb making*, else those 14 casualties would've been 31 or more.



That only really give more credence to my argument, you know. 

Because making a bomb is _not_ as easy as tards like you make it out to be, not like the availability and ease of buying firearms.

~snip~


----------



## makeoutparadise (Dec 3, 2015)

Mael said:


> There's 365 days a year.



I'm making up for leap years


----------



## KidTony (Dec 3, 2015)

Tyrannos said:


> Dude, this is more than simple gun violence.  These people were newb terrorists who planned more than just shooting up a Christmas Party.  They had bombs!  A LOT of Bombs!



But they didn't, they shot and killed 14 people instead--which wouldn't have happened with stricter gun control laws.


----------



## Chelydra (Dec 3, 2015)

KidTony said:


> But they didn't, they shot and killed 14 people instead--which wouldn't have happened with stricter gun control laws.



France had stricter gun laws, and look what happened


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 3, 2015)

Is Chelydra trying to be sarcastic?

It's hard to tell with his near constant abuse of the :**maybe smilie.

I'm going to assume he is because that's such a weakass argument.


----------



## hammer (Dec 3, 2015)

Chelydra said:


> France had stricter gun laws, and look what happened



you mean the one time in like ever with illegal guns opposed to our 350 this year with legally obtained guns?


----------



## KidTony (Dec 4, 2015)

Chelydra said:


> France had stricter gun laws, and look what happened



That was an outlier, so was charlie hebdo. Compare gun violence in France and the U.S adjusted for population, there really isn't any comparison.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 4, 2015)

you guys are wasting your keystrokes and your time.

Nanny state gun control a la Yuropuss will not happen in your lifetime...move on.


----------



## raizen28 (Dec 4, 2015)

Criminals Respect The Law 
So If you make more and bigger laws
Criminals will respect them even more
You're only a Criminal when you break laws


----------



## hammer (Dec 4, 2015)

that's like saying why have laws at all


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Dec 4, 2015)

Chelydra said:


> France had *no border controls* , and look what happened



Fixed


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 4, 2015)

Tfw Raging Boner's posts are the most honest replies in this thread.

Let’s be honest, none of the pro-gun lobby actually care about the Constitution™, or 'protection', or 'home security', or defending themselves from a hypothetical tyrannical government takeover, or criminals using the black market to get guns illegally.

You just fucking like guns, and they make you feel stronk.

People arguing against gun control are the real pussies.


----------



## Zyrax (Dec 4, 2015)

MbS said:


> Tfw Raging Boner's posts are the most honest replies in this thread.
> 
> Let?s be honest, none of the pro-gun lobby actually care about the Constitution?, or 'protection', or 'home security', or defending themselves from a hypothetical tyrannical government takeover, or criminals using the black market to get guns illegally.
> 
> ...


Henry Rollins who is anti gun is has Tattoos and Is a bodybuilder, Two things that are purely done for "making you feel stronk" 
At least Guns can come in handy


----------



## Megaharrison (Dec 4, 2015)

KidTony said:


> But they didn't, they shot and killed 14 people instead--which wouldn't have happened with stricter gun control laws.



AK-47s, body armor, and pipe bombs are all already illegal in California 

Also why didnt obamas vetting process discover the wife when she got a visa? And why did this happen in an eco friendly state with ample water when Islamic terrorism is because of global warming?


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 4, 2015)

Zyrax Pasha said:


> Henry Rollins who is anti gun is has Tattoos and Is a bodybuilder, Two things that are purely done for "making you feel stronk"
> At least Guns can come in handy



What a guy, that Zaheer.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

*Terrorist Watchlist No Bar to Buying Guns*



> Say you?re on the government?s terrorist watchlist and want to buy a gun. No problem, according to FBI data released last year: From 2004 to 2014, more than 2,000 people listed as known or suspected terrorists bought a handgun, sports rifle or assault weapon.
> 
> "Membership in a terrorist organization does not prohibit a person from possessing firearms or explosives under current federal law," the Government Accountability Office also reported in 2010. The GAO said it did not have data on how many firearms purchases were completed because dealers are not required to submit that information to the FBI.
> 
> ...




Say what you will about current regulations, this is one fucking thing that needs to be addressed.  Anyone on this watchlist should be barred those rights.


----------



## blueblip (Dec 4, 2015)

The terrorist watchlist continues to fail epically.


----------



## BashFace (Dec 4, 2015)

RAGING BONER said:


> half the reason i don't want gun control in the US is precisely because of pussified Euroscum.
> 
> I shudder to think what our country would be if we had such a weak willed populace.



Don't worry culture vs counter-culture won't end in our lifetime from what I can tell based on my poorly informed view of history. 

As long as the Middle East are portrayed to be crazy as shit we'll just pretend to be one better then they are whilst they do the same in their countries to their people and we'll never run out of reasons or causes to be savage or brave or appropriately malicious in "self-defence".  

I mean we convince ourselves we're better than they are by saying we in the western world advocate more rights or freedoms etc but both sides are seemingly represented more by their worst 1% then by the entirety or average of their populous. 

I mean we kill them its terrorism but to us its freedom and vicea versa. 

We use different words and fight for the same shit, we call it rights in both countries but we both view each other as if our governments and citizens are animals. 

We say they're sand monkeys with bibles and they say we're fat sluts etc. 

When I say I don't care I genuinely mean it, I just like to hear myself talk. 

People better not give me humanist garbage whilst encouraging or applauding senseless killing, actually population control might be the only sense in it. 

I care I'm an authoritarian, I don't care I'm a sociopath or I lack empathy somehow when I used to have dreams of saving the world. 

I didn't give up, I grew up. 

We'll never be any better than our worst 1% that holds us back and we have to wait for people to catch up on phenomenal scales only to find out they're cows to the slaughter, oranges to a juice maker etc. 

Why give a shit when people want to die so senselessly anyways?


----------



## Utopia Realm (Dec 4, 2015)

So you can be put on a list of people who might use weapons, homemade bombs to kill innocent people  but it really doesn't do much besides let the govt. know your watched... ...

Is that all it does?


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

Utopia Realm said:


> So you can be put on a list of people who might use weapons, homemade bombs to kill innocent people  but it really doesn't do much besides let the govt. know your watched... ...
> 
> Is that all it does?



It's supposed to bar you from a bunch of shit but it's like the memo never gets passed out.


----------



## BashFace (Dec 4, 2015)

Mael said:


> Say what you will about current regulations, this is one fucking thing that needs to be addressed.  Anyone on this watchlist should be barred those rights.



You want people condemned for suspicion just because of the consequence? 

That's not sensible at all, do you even know what it takes to make such a watchlist. 

I mean being autistic and looking up nitrates could put you on this list I suspect and that autistic person might genuinely be interested in chemistry and not bomb making. 

In saying that though, the US government probably gets more people killed if they allow this shit and they're more worried about this then false condemnations or human rights. 

Over-population is a massive issue nobody ever addresses because the idea of being expendable scares people but the superficial notions suggest that is all people are to government. 

The sanctity of life is nonsense there are hunting associations, animal rights activists, the death penalty, conscription(war) etc  

Its all dualistic garbage we call balance, freedom or chaos. 

Governments are juggling balls/people for money, power and ego do you think they give a shit about balls/people unless they're using them for empowerment or as a nutrient for sustenance? 

Even whistle blowing they don't give a shit about unless you have actual information worth something, the stuff I say now they couldn't give a shit about because what does it change? 

People can bring guns to a drone fight or most would actually protect the government and shoot their own civilians to protect their shopping malls.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

Can you simplify your rambling?


----------



## BashFace (Dec 4, 2015)

Mael said:


> Can you simplify your rambling?



Na, if you and others are going to be too lethargic to read or consider other people then its good terror/terrorists exist to get you to think for yourselves, seek information outside of your own ignorance or to get you to consider another person. 

Without that pressure you devolve, become inconsiderate and become useless.

I just feel like an idiot now because I'm elaborating to a cynic, I'd rather terrorists get guns then explain why some people on the terrorist watchlist should still have access to the same rights as morons like you.  

Love isn't enough for selfish or self-centred morons as motivation for consideration or compassion.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

BashFace said:


> Na, if you and others are going to be too lethargic to read or consider other people then its good terror/terrorists exist to get you to think for yourselves, seek information outside of your own ignorance or to get you to consider another person.
> 
> Without that pressure you devolve, become inconsiderate and become useless.
> 
> ...



Sure didn't help.  I read it but you're all over the place.

I think it'll be better to just ignore since you can't seem to form a coherent argument.


----------



## blueblip (Dec 4, 2015)

Mael said:


> It's supposed to bar you from a bunch of shit but it's like the memo never gets passed out.



Probably because the powers that be know the list is utter shit, considering most people on it are grandmas and tots.


----------



## BashFace (Dec 4, 2015)

Mael said:


> Sure didn't help.  I read it but you're all over the place.
> 
> I think it'll be better to just ignore since you can't seem to form a coherent argument.





> You want people condemned for suspicion just because of the consequence?
> 
> That's not sensible at all, do you even know what it takes to make such a watchlist.
> 
> Being autistic and googling nitrates could put you on this list I suspect and that autistic person might genuinely be interested in chemistry and not bomb making.



I'm done now, I just copied my first three paragraphs of the other post. 

You're insecure or you feel vulnerable out of spite for a culture but potential terrorists are to be taken the same as the mentally ill who haven't committed violent crimes. 

You're too stupid to see this shit, I couldn't be bothered, you see too many words and your brain can't wrap itself around it.




*Spoiler*: _Don't condescend me because you're stupid and lazy_ 



 You're scared not smart


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

Guess I'm going back on my word.

That doesn't really refute how people on a watchlist are not being barred from things that could allow them to cause mayhem.  If it wasn't a problem it wouldn't be reported.



> Being autistic and googling nitrates could put you on this list I suspect and that autistic person might genuinely be interested in chemistry and not bomb making.



And you think it's that simple?

The only things it needs is a clearer policy and revision.



> I just feel like an idiot now because I'm elaborating to a cynic, I'd rather terrorists get guns then explain why some people on the terrorist watchlist should still have access to the same rights as morons like you.



And this sort of pretentious prattling only makes it worse.

Just stick to the annoying pooey sig shit that's your schtick.


----------



## BashFace (Dec 4, 2015)

Mael said:


> Guess I'm going back on my word.
> 
> That doesn't really refute how people on a watchlist are not being barred from things that could allow them to cause mayhem.  If it wasn't a problem it wouldn't be reported.
> 
> ...



Dude mountain out of mole hill problem or an unfixable or unwinnable war, its not reasonable to say because I suspect you of being a terrorist you should be treated like one. 

So yeah point one for me. 

Well dude tell me where this clarity is coming from because I think its concluded, you're the one suggesting it needs a rabbit to come out of a hat.  

Point 2 to me. 

Dude pretentious prattling only means I had a point but I was mawkish and you were stupid or erroneous from the beginning. 

Point 3 to me. 

Wait and the pooey sig is like +10

So yeah I win by 13-14 points if I count my face right now.

This is me to myself because I just beat a child at handball:


----------



## Sherlōck (Dec 4, 2015)

*Senate rejects gun control amendments offered following San Bernardino shooting*



> he Senate on Thursday voted down two gun control proposals put forward by Democrats in response to this week’s deadly shooting in San Bernardino, Calif., in a series of votes that highlighted the intractable party divide over how to respond to gun violence.
> 
> The Senate rejected a measure from Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) to expand background checks for guns purchased online and at gun shows on a 48 to 50 vote and an amendment from Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) to prevent individuals on the terror watch list from purchasing firearms on a 45 to 54 vote. The amendments were offered  to an Obamacare repeal package currently being debated in the Senate and they needed 60 votes to be adopted.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

The thing is, the two got all their stuff legally.  That's the scary part.  

I remember reading one neighbor's statements how she always saw these packages marked with warning labels yet said nothing.  I can't hate on the person, but I think it's going to come to a point we need to start reporting things and not fear offending people.



> unfixable or unwinnable war



Well this pretty much confirms you as one of those smarmy defeatists.  And being maudlin doesn't give you any sort of bonus points.

The point of the argument is why people on this watchlist are having access to weaponry they shouldn't have, error or not.  If there's an error it gets resolved through investigation.  If not, tough nuggets.


----------



## Sherlōck (Dec 4, 2015)

That wasn't a surprise at all.


----------



## stream (Dec 4, 2015)

I find it fascinating that this vote, the one on terrorists being allowed to buy guns, was about adding an amendment to a bill _which would repeal most of Obamacare and defund Planned Parenthood_.

So the whole discussion is basically a theoretical make-believe waste of time; but they are still finding the time to hotly debate about the gun rights of terrorists. Fuck I'm glad not to be a politician.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

> I'm crazy and I love it



Crazy and realist aren't really synonymous but whatever, keep rambling.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 4, 2015)

Bashface has an incredibly persuasive arguing technic, in mostly I can't possibly read any of his posts for more than four seconds before that avatar of his puts me off

I concede. I concede everything, just stop.


----------



## Hitt (Dec 4, 2015)

Mael said:


> I am utterly flabbergasted how this really flew under the radar.  And to be honest it's more than workplace violence.  This is terrorism.  He guy flew to Saudi Arabia, a place already known for its less than subtle proselytizing of Wahabbi and Salafi-style fundamentalism/terrorism, and picked up a Pakistani wife. Then the two of them are completely withdrawn for months while ordering military grade weaponry, supplies, and ammunition (all of which neighbors notice but don't say anything about it [feels before reals?]).  Then there's this holiday party that gets shot up as the TWO of them, not just one, go in and shoot it up.  No I think it goes beyond a disgruntled employee.  People seem to get upset we want to know race and religion.  We need to know it so we can piece things together, like it or not.  It if hurts precious feels then too damn bad.
> 
> They got all this legally, which is also a damn shame.



Yeah it brings up some tough questions.  Obviously the GOP will just try to ignore this and hope it goes away because they have their heads so far up their ass of the NRA any talks of control is an absolute taboo for them and because this guy was a citizen of the US they couldn't make the argument he's some ISIS plant.  It's domestic terrorism and the Republicans can't and won't do shit about it.

More generally, even if you're liberal on the idea how far do you go?  We can't go watching every Muslim, that's about as un-American as it gets, and we just went through shit with people up in arms over what the NSA was doing.

But something has to be done.  We can't just keep the status quo and act like this won't keep happening.  We need some kind of better gun controls, even if in this particular case they MIGHT not have been effective.  After all the guy that shot up the Planned Parenthood damn sure wasn't Muslim affiliated.




BashFace said:


> I know like the substantial influences and opinions of the judges of shitposting and serious issues right?
> 
> Seems to be a lot of them around.


You're posting incoherent nonsense and shitty ass image macros that weren't cool even 8 years ago when they first appeared.   No "judging" required.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

*California massacre shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS: CNN*



> One of the two people accused of killing 14 at a holiday party in California posted an online statement pledging allegiance to a leader of the Islamic State militant group, CNN reported on Friday, citing U.S. officials.
> 
> Tashfeen Malik, 27, and her husband, Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, were killed in a shootout with police hours after the Wednesday massacre at the Inland Regional Center social services agency in San Bernardino, about 60 miles (100 km) east of Los Angeles. The attack was the deadliest mass shooting the United States has experienced in three years.
> 
> ...


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-shooting-isis-idUSKBN0TN1SR20151204

It was the wife.  

And look what we have here.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 4, 2015)

Obama is going to cost the Democrats the next election. You may be confused why I'm saying this, but you will soon see why.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Obama is going to cost the Democrats the next election. You may be confused why I'm saying this, but you will soon see why.



No, I get why.  He continues to dismiss the elephant in the room of militant Islam for fear of offending feels.  We have no Democrats who seem to want to address it as well once again for fear of offending feels.  I get WHY they do it, but I just don't agree to it.  And this reluctance plays into Republican hands because it perpetuates the image of Obama being complacent with Islam and Democrats weak on foreign/social policy dealing with terrorism.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 4, 2015)

Additionally his stubborness on the refugee issue will be tied into this matter. As he hasn't even listened to his own party members that have dissented from him on the issue. I always felt that if an attack happened in the midst of this matter then it would only fuel momentum for the GOP to mount an attack on Obama for being complacent when it came to Islamic terrorism and the risk of. They would use this to generate even more fear over the refugee crisis and push American sentiment toward it even further to the right than it would be had Obama acknowledged the criticisms and heard people out, I feel. The act itself is deplorable as it is, but the facts coming out about the attackers are not good on a political level either. They will tear Obama to shreds over this, and use it to discredit him on related issues.


----------



## raizen28 (Dec 4, 2015)

Like Carter and that Russian Troops bullcrap


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

raizen28 said:


> Like Carter and that Russian Troops bullcrap



Except worse.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 4, 2015)

> *California massacre shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS: CNN*



well this shit just turned into a political cluster fuck.

has future God-emperor Trump seized upon this opportunity or is he bidding his time while his adversaries make the first move?


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

RAGING BONER said:


> well this shit just turned into a political cluster fuck.
> 
> has future God-emperor Trump seized upon this opportunity or is he bidding his time while his adversaries make the first move?



Looks like K-1 fiancee visas will also be targeted by Trump and not just H1Bs.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

Oh and to add spice to things:



> Investigators are looking into a report that Farook had engaged in an argument with a co-worker who denounced the "inherent dangers of Islam," a U.S. government source said.



And now we're going to get that classic clash of freedom of opinion and those who don't want to "prod a bear" by saying anything about Islam.


----------



## Hitt (Dec 4, 2015)

And now the gun debate is thrown in the trash can once again, as the GOP will just keep shouting TERRORISM TERRORISM and drown everything else out.  Sigh.  Not that the terrorism thing is not important, it most certainly is, it's just that the guns thing has to be dealt with too.  But now all that will fall on deaf ears.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

Well let's analyze, aside from the body armor (not guns I'm aware of this) and massive loads of ammunition, what else was done that was so brazen that gun control needs to be expanded?


----------



## Hitt (Dec 4, 2015)

Mael said:


> Well let's analyze, aside from the body armor (not guns I'm aware of this) and massive loads of ammunition, what else was done that was so brazen that gun control needs to be expanded?



I'm talking about in general.  Maybe expanded gun control would've done nothing to prevent this tragedy.  But what about all the other dozens of shootings that seem to happen almost every day now in this country?


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 4, 2015)

i'm telling you guys that it's not a battle that will be won overnight or even over the course of a few years.

America was BORN from the gun, the gun made manifest destiny possible, the gun is a symbol of American pride and hunting is HUGE in this country as well.

Banning guns in this country will take generations of persistent lobbying and nagging by leftists.

it'll be an uphill battle just to get mental health legislation passed in order to prevent crazies from owning guns.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

To be fair the mentally ill should be barred access to firearms.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 4, 2015)

ITT: morons think gun control and banning guns are the same thing.


----------



## baconbits (Dec 4, 2015)

KidTony said:


> But they didn't, they shot and killed 14 people instead--which wouldn't have happened with stricter gun control laws.



That's actually not true.  No one is proposing something that could prevent these kinds of tragedies.

The real story of gun violence also won't be addressed by dealing with these mass shootings.



Mael said:


> No, I get why.  He continues to dismiss the elephant in the room of militant Islam for fear of offending feels.  We have no Democrats who seem to want to address it as well once again for fear of offending feels.  I get WHY they do it, but I just don't agree to it.  And this reluctance plays into Republican hands because it perpetuates the image of Obama being complacent with Islam and Democrats weak on foreign/social policy dealing with terrorism.



Dems ARE weak on foreign policy dealing with terrorism.  They hope this just goes away on its own.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

baconbits said:


> Dems ARE weak on foreign policy dealing with terrorism.  They hope this just goes away on its own.



Never said they weren't.  I just don't think sending large amounts of ground troops (including myself and my soldiers) into zones that we've known have had massive civilian intelligence boondoggles is a very good idea.  It'd be better to support the Kurds and watch the others bleed themselves white.

What Democrats need to start doing is addressing the threat of militant Islam.  Sorry, domestic Muslims, but until we get a quid pro quo of acknowledgement of these acts in the name of Islam by Muslims and in return greater trust and cooperation, morons like Trump are going to ride waves of xenophobia.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 4, 2015)

Clinton was not weak on foreign policy, and Obama has been more proactive on it too. Bush II and Reagan were actually the worst in terms of foreign policy if we are talking the last 30 years. However, I suppose with the current crop of candidates I can't say except Sanders seems like a weak candidate in that regard and among other things.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Clinton was not weak on foreign policy, and Obama has been more proactive on it too. Bush II and Reagan were actually the worst in terms of foreign policy if we are talking the last 30 years.



Foreign policy regarding dealing with Islamic terrorism.  Sorry Seto but I'm with bacon on this one.  Obama's response continues to get more and more tepid.  

Now in regards to not fighting in Syria and the moves to diplomatically help contain China, that I give points to the Dems on.  Someone like Romney would be TOO obsessed with Russia who is just a flailing old bear now stuck in two messes.


----------



## Hitt (Dec 4, 2015)

baconbits said:


> Dems ARE weak on foreign policy dealing with terrorism.  They hope this just goes away on its own.



While I'm not fully one to disagree with that assertion, the implication is that Republicans are by contrast strong with such foreign policy. 

Yet all I've seen from them, George W in particular, is starting two costly wars that have merely if anything exasperated the problem.  I dunno how anyone can call this "strong" given that it did absolutely nothing to improve the situation, quite the opposite.  (Oh and there's this thing with Obama massively expanding the Drones program to take out terrorist leaders directly.  Also the Osama Bin Laden raid.  I assume you'll at least give him points on those two fronts)

Or do you mean both parties (in general) have absolutely no idea how to deal with it?  That I can fully agree with.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Dec 4, 2015)

Look the only way to solve this is 10 more years of war with boots on the ground and Obama is thinking about his legacy his promise to us was to pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan there is no way we're going to put boots on the ground until the new president gets into office and all this bombing is just making ISIS dig more holes and waiting it out


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 4, 2015)

Mael said:


> Foreign policy regarding dealing with Islamic terrorism.  Sorry Seto but I'm with bacon on this one.  Obama's response continues to get more and more tepid.
> 
> Now in regards to not fighting in Syria and the moves to diplomatically help contain China, that I give points to the Dems on.  Someone like Romney would be TOO obsessed with Russia who is just a flailing old bear now stuck in two messes.



In recent events, I agree. Yet people in this country confuse bravado and boorishness with being "strong". He has been aggressive in spite of his soft rhetoric for most of the presidency. It's only now that he seems actually going soft on the matter in general.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

*Attorney for San Bernardino gunman's family floats hoax theory*



> An attorney for the family of one of the San Bernardino attackers cited conspiracy theories surrounding another mass shooting in trying to cast doubt on accounts of this week?s attack.
> 
> ?There was a lot of questions drawn with regard to Sandy Hook and whether or not that was a real incident or not,? David Chesley, an attorney for the family of Syed Farook, said in a video uploaded Friday by the Daily Mail.
> 
> ...




Here's a man who needs the ABA to consider disbarring or sanctioning him.

I love this line:


> ?There?s a lot of things that quite frankly don?t add up or seem implausible. ? There?s a lot of things that just don?t make sense,? he told CNN?s Chris Cuomo.



Such as?

It's all talk and no substance.


----------



## armorknight (Dec 4, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> In recent events, I agree. Yet people in this country confuse bravado and boorishness with being "strong". He has been aggressive in spite of his soft rhetoric for most of the presidency. It's only now that he seems actually going soft on the matter in general.



Bush 2 was largely a moron, and Obama generally doesn't take the proper and firm stance on things he should.

Clinton was so-so on foreign policy, but he had the advantage of living in better times. Raegan has been the best in foreign policy since his presidency even if he wasn't perfect. His economic policy may have been bullshit, no other president since has had his caliber when it comes to foreign policy.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

All Obama really needs is that backbone to tell people to shut the fuck up.  Sadly that little shit Putes knows he doesn't have it which is why he's gotten away with so much and the Chinese try to copy that.

Concerning this, Obama needs to call a spade a spade for what it is...Islamic terrorism.


----------



## armorknight (Dec 4, 2015)

Mael said:


> All Obama really needs is that backbone to tell people to shut the fuck up.  Sadly that little shit Putes knows he doesn't have it which is why he's gotten away with so much and the Chinese try to copy that.
> 
> Concerning this, Obama needs to call a spade a spade for what it is...Islamic terrorism.



If you ask me, most Western leaders could use a dose of Putin. The man certainly has issues, but his caliber is something to be respected. He does a decent job considering what he has to deal with in Russia.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

armorknight said:


> If you ask me, most Western leaders could use a dose of Putin. The man certainly has issues, but his caliber is something to be respected.



No, he just has a shitload of nukes, some oil, and a xenophobic population to back him up.  That's how he keeps his bullshit up.


----------



## armorknight (Dec 4, 2015)

Mael said:


> No, he just has a shitload of nukes, some oil, and a xenophobic population to back him up.  That's how he keeps his bullshit up.



He does indulge in his power too much, but he also is trying to protect Russia from Western encroachment, globalism, and multiculturalism. I can respect him for that.

Plus, a lot of his quotes about the problems facing the West have been on point even if Putin probably doesn't take much of his own advice.


----------



## baconbits (Dec 4, 2015)

Mael said:


> Never said they weren't.  I just don't think sending large amounts of ground troops (including myself and my soldiers) into zones that we've known have had massive civilian intelligence boondoggles is a very good idea.  It'd be better to support the Kurds and watch the others bleed themselves white.
> 
> What Democrats need to start doing is addressing the threat of militant Islam.  Sorry, domestic Muslims, but until we get a quid pro quo of acknowledgement of these acts in the name of Islam by Muslims and in return greater trust and cooperation, morons like Trump are going to ride waves of xenophobia.



I don't disagree with you on that.  I don't think the liberal base could stomach this.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Clinton was not weak on foreign policy, and Obama has been more proactive on it too. Bush II and Reagan were actually the worst in terms of foreign policy if we are talking the last 30 years. However, I suppose with the current crop of candidates I can't say except Sanders seems like a weak candidate in that regard and among other things.



Clinton has been a mixed bag, but since she's never been an executive she's never owned any of the things she's proposed.  Is she at fault for the rise of ISIS under the Obama administration?  Its hard to say.  You could make a strong case either way.  I look at her unwillingness to condemn radical Islam and I see someone who isn't as bad as the far left but still doesn't measure up to my realist standards.

Reagan was great in foreign policy; don't let your ideological bias cloud your judgment.  His idea to win the Cold War was pure genius.



Hitt said:


> While I'm not fully one to disagree with that assertion, the implication is that Republicans are by contrast strong with such foreign policy.



They're stronger, but certainly not perfect.  The execution of the two wars was actually well done.  After the initial conflict we had a problem sustaining our gains.  The surge in Iraq worked well until we began to retreat from that state.  Afghanistan was essentially won after the Bush administration, but was sort of given away by Obama.

There have been problems, mainly because politicians aren't as realist as they need to be, but its not been as stupid as many liberal solutions/proposals have been.  If you compare Bush's handling of terrorism with Obama's Bush is the clear winner, when you take bias out of the picture.  The fact that Obama is resisting calling the latest atrocity terrorism should tell you how twisted his thinking is.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

Only the initial executions of both wars went well.

After that the Bush Administration went on to commit the dumbest mistakes that essentially protracted the war, first off having Bremer call any shots and then disbanding the Iraqi Army.

Stupid...STUPID.

The surge was also more or less successful due to Sunni tribesmen getting fed up with AQI and other outsider extremist groups.  With their cooperation, the surge was more effective.  Troops alone don't end insurgencies, but rather cooperation of the populace.  I can't really credit Bush a lot for this aside from just giving the order.



> Afghanistan was essentially won after the Bush administration, but was sort of given away by Obama.



It was for only a couple years.  Nobody in either administration did any research as to how Afghanistan actually operates and that forcing centralized governments on a very decentralized tribal system was bound for failure.  Pride got in everyone's way.


----------



## ? (Dec 4, 2015)

I like how Republicans are yelling TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM, and trying to cloud the gun control issue.


----------



## SLB (Dec 4, 2015)

armorknight said:


> If you ask me, most Western leaders could use a dose of Putin. The man certainly has issues, but his caliber is something to be respected. He does a decent job considering what he has to deal with in Russia.



Not really. His contention is on auto pilot atm.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

? said:


> I like how Republicans are yelling TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM, and trying to cloud the gun control issue.



Really guys, how would gun control have effectively done something about this?  Everything they did was legal.  Aside from outright banning guns which will never happen, I don't hear what could've prevented this aside from outright surveillance (something the gun control folks seem to be really against too) and profiling.

I agree people misinterpret the Second Amendment and we're way too trigger-happy, but it's not a one-way street.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 4, 2015)

armorknight said:


> If you ask me, most Western leaders could use a dose of Putin. The man certainly has issues, but his caliber is something to be respected. He does a decent job considering what he has to deal with in Russia.





i just-


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 4, 2015)

? said:


> I like how Republicans are yelling TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM, and trying to cloud the gun control issue.



I'm pretty sure fully automatic assault rifles are illegal.


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

WAD said:


> I'm pretty sure fully automatic assault rifles are illegal.



Have sources concluded they were fully automatic assault rifles?



> Police said the couple had two assault-style rifles, two semi-automatic handguns and 1,600 rounds of ammunition in their vehicle when they were killed. A search of their home turned up another 4,500 rounds and 12 pipe bombs.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-shooting-warning-idUSKBN0TN1O620151204

From what I've seen they were AR-15 style semi-auto rifles.


----------



## armorknight (Dec 4, 2015)

Moody said:


> Not really. His contention is on auto pilot atm.



Like I said, he isn't perfect. No leader is. But he's certainly better than the largely pathetic Western leaders of today who seem content to sell out their populations.


----------



## SLB (Dec 4, 2015)

No he's not


----------



## Jin-E (Dec 4, 2015)

armorknight said:


> Like I said, he isn't perfect. No leader is. But he's certainly better than the largely pathetic Western leaders of today who seem content to sell out their populations.



Hoodwinking the Russian constitution(by placing a pawn as an intermediate "president" because he himself was barred from serving more consecutive periods) just because he can't let go off his comfy presidency chair is a textbook example of "pathetic"


----------



## armorknight (Dec 4, 2015)

Moody said:


> No he's not



And why not?

What's so great about the jokes of Western "leaders" who simply get fat on the public trough while doing nothing of real value?

The inability of the West to even properly identify and acknowledge Islamic terror shows that its leaders are largely jokes.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 4, 2015)

armorknight said:


> And why not?
> 
> What's so great about the jokes of Western "leaders" who simply get fat on the public trough while doing nothing of real value?
> 
> The inability of the West to even properly identify and acknowledge Islamic terror shows that its leaders are largely jokes.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 4, 2015)

The USSR was already falling apart when Reagan came in, you can't credit him for that. However, the rest of his foreign policy decisions have had long-term negative effects. Most of the issues we are facing in particular today are the ramifications of his foreign policy. Like I said people confuse bravado and boorishness with strength, it is not. Bush took it to more exaggerated levels, and it resulted in more immediate consequences.


----------



## armorknight (Dec 4, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


>



Putin isn't even responsible for most of Russia problems though. He is power-hungry, but like all leaders he is a product of his population's sensibilities, and Russia's fling with communism should be considered here. In light of that Putin is a decent leader.

Likewise, the institutions that make the West such a humane place were created by past leaders and populations, and they are being gradually eroded in the modern West. You know that your leaders are truly garbage when basic threats aren't even properly recognized and acknowledged.


----------



## Kagekatsu (Dec 4, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> The USSR was already falling apart when Reagan came in, you can't credit him for that. However, the rest of his foreign policy decisions have had long-term negative effects. Most of the issues we are facing in particular today are the ramifications of his foreign policy. Like I said people confuse bravado and boorishness with strength, it is not. Bush took it to more exaggerated levels, and it resulted in more immediate consequences.



Eh, the argument can be made that Reagan helped accelerate the Soviet Union's collapse to say the least, and he did make an effort to restart detente once Gorbachev came on the scene. Sure it was an "Anyone could have done that" scenario but considering when he was first elected quite a few people were convinced he would start a nuclear war on principle, I will at least give him credit for not doing that. It's ironic that Cruz and the more hawkish Republicans keep trying to evoke him as a "President of true strength" when Paul and Kasich made light that Reagan negotiated with the Soviets.

Iran-Contra though...let's just say Reagan is very fortunate to have been such a charismatic figure because any other president with lesser ability would have had the opposition screaming for impeachment.


----------



## Megaharrison (Dec 4, 2015)

? said:


> I like how Republicans are yelling TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM, and trying to cloud the gun control issue.



They had illegal guns already, and the FBI has said this is terrorism. So....


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

Megaharrison said:


> They had illegal guns already, and the FBI has said this is terrorism. So....






God damn, Mega.  It's like you're blind to this.


----------



## armorknight (Dec 4, 2015)

The only "gun-control" policies I'd support are requiring people to take more thorough classes on how to use guns before purchasing them. Other than that there aren't really any good arguments for gun-control.


----------



## Kagekatsu (Dec 4, 2015)

So apparently, reporters from CNN and MSNBC went through Farook and Malik's apartment and sifted through all their belongings...before the police even gave them permission to do so. All the while holding up personal effects from other people who may not be connected to the shooting, or perhaps were and now they have a heads-up tip to leave before the authorities arrive.



Congrats guys, you made Fox News look like consummate professionals.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 4, 2015)

armorknight said:


> The only "gun-control" policies I'd support are *requiring people to take more thorough classes on how to use guns before purchasing them*. Other than that there aren't really any good arguments for gun-control.



That would have totally stopped Sandy Hook.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 4, 2015)

Kagekatsu said:


> So apparently, reporters from CNN and MSNBC went through Farook and Malik's apartment and sifted through all their belongings...before the police even gave them permission to do so. All the while holding up personal effects from other people who may not be connected to the shooting, or perhaps were and now they have a heads-up tip to leave before the authorities arrive.
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats guys, you made Fox News look like consummate professionals.



Wow. Actually with CNN's degradation into basically tabloid news, this doesn't shock me, and MSNBC has always had issues of bias but in particular since they always toe that ideological line you probably have many now that just don't know what journalistic standards are to begin with...


----------



## Mael (Dec 4, 2015)

That is incredibly shameless.


----------



## baconbits (Dec 4, 2015)

? said:


> I like how Republicans are yelling TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM, and trying to cloud the gun control issue.



Well, it is terrorism and you're not going to solve terrorism by domestic gun control.


----------



## $Kakashi$ (Dec 4, 2015)

armorknight said:


> The only "gun-control" policies I'd support are requiring people to take more thorough classes on how to use guns before purchasing them. Other than that there aren't really any good arguments for gun-control.



Also a mental health evaluation before your allowed to purchase them.


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 4, 2015)

baconbits said:


> Well, it is terrorism and you're not going to solve terrorism by domestic gun control.



Any second now the

"OK, MAYBE NOT IN THIS INCIDENT BUT IN OTHER SHOOTINGS GUN CONTROL COULD HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE!" earmarked rhetoric


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 4, 2015)

What the fuck are you even going on about?


----------



## Megaharrison (Dec 4, 2015)

Mael said:


> God damn, Mega.  It's like you're blind to this.



Don't sell guns to Muslims then. Problem solved.

I'm more concerned how Barry wants more background checks for gun ownership, yet his "vetting" process for Muslims has failed miserably.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 4, 2015)

$Kakashi$ said:


> Also a mental health evaluation before your allowed to purchase them.



Yeah... it's not like anybody can conceal it or anything, or develop serious mental illness later in life.


----------



## Megaharrison (Dec 4, 2015)

Also the guns used were not legal according to the ATF:



> It may be true that these guns were purchased legally, but they were not used legally and in fact, they were modified in violation of the California firearms laws, says the ATF.
> 
> While they were originally sold legally, with magazine locking devices commonly known as bullet buttons, the rifles were subsequently altered in different ways to make them more powerful, according to Meredith Davis, a special agent with the ATF.
> 
> ...





Was total bullshit that they used legal semi-auto AR-15's to do all that. The media doesn't know what it's talking about tho


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 4, 2015)

So if these people had not been able to purchase the guns in the first place, then the  shooting wouldn't have happened?

Whooops.


----------



## Megaharrison (Dec 4, 2015)

MbS said:


> So if these people had not been able to purchase the guns, then the  shooting wouldn't have happened?
> 
> Whooops.



So if there was a law against buying guns, would they have followed it and not gotten guns? Just like they followed the laws to not modify them, get pipe bombs, and get body armor?


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 4, 2015)

What a _pointless_ argument. Fact is gun control works. Your argument now is if an outcome is not perfect then it's a failure, and that trumps overall success in the majority. Because the status quo in the US has been working so very well.


----------



## Tyrannos (Dec 4, 2015)

MbS said:


> So if these people had not been able to purchase the guns in the first place, then the  shooting wouldn't have happened?
> 
> Whooops.



Yeah, gun control sure would've stopped those bombs they had.  



MbS said:


> What a _pointless_ argument. Fact is gun control works. Your argument now is if an outcome is not perfect then it's a failure, and that trumps overall success in the majority. Because the status quo in the US has been working so very well.



Source?   Because it's sure isn't working for Chicago and Washington D.C. now is it?

You know, lets have both sides agree to an experiment.   Temporarily suspend the Second Amendment for California, New York, and Illinois.   Store legal guns in secure vaults, and see what happens through the course of the grand experiment to see if Gun Control really does make a difference.


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 4, 2015)

Nope, it's working in Yurop which is absolutely due to the LAW(L) and not at all with the sociological factors involved of it being a completely different part of the world.


----------



## Megaharrison (Dec 4, 2015)

MbS said:


> What a _pointless_ argument. Fact is gun control works. Your argument now is if an outcome is not perfect then it's a failure, and that trumps overall success in the majority. Because the status quo in the US has been working so very well.



How would more laws have stopped this when they already broke a bunch of laws?

Not everyone is as manly and tough and swole as you Mbs we're afraid but need real solutions to counter Muslim terrorism for us non macho men


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 4, 2015)

WAD said:


> Nope, it's working in Yurop which is absolutely due to the LAW(L) and not at all with the sociological factors involved of it being a completely different part of the world.



Finland and Switzerland allow gun ownership and do not see nearly the rate of gun violence. It's a different part of the world, but they have similar societal values and system of government. Then there is you know, Canada...

The arguments some of you are making is starting to make me wonder how a lot of you even got through high school. Mass shootings in a place like Paris as horrific as they may be are outliers. People are stupidly citing these extreme exceptions as an example and it only illustrates their ignorance on the matter.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 4, 2015)

Don't take mah guns away from meh!



Tyrannos said:


> Yeah, gun control sure would've stopped those bombs they had.



I guess making and using bombs should be totally legal then.



> Source?   Because it's sure isn't working for Chicago and Washington D.C. now is it?



Ugh, gun control varies widely amongst the states and is increasingly influenced by local politics. Unsurprisingly, states that have Republican leaders tend to limit gun control.

Fact is the states with tighter gun control laws have fewer gun deaths. 







Megaharrison said:


> How would more laws have stopped this when they already broke a bunch of laws?



States with tighter gun control laws have fewer gun deaths. It's hard for you to grasp, I know. But - gasp - it's not 100% perfect,  and that trumps overall success even if it is superior to what's currently available.


----------



## raizen28 (Dec 4, 2015)

Gun control wont stop everyday shootings in South Central though.


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 4, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Finland and Switzerland allow gun ownership and do not see nearly the rate of gun violence. It's a different part of the world, but they have similar societal values and system of government. Then there is you know, Canada...
> 
> The arguments some of you are making is starting to make me wonder how a lot of you even got through high school. Mass shootings in a place like Paris as horrific as they may be are outliers. People are stupidly citing these extreme exceptions as an example and it only illustrates their ignorance on the matter.



It's completely different.

Like RB said earlier ITT, we are a nation founded on guns. The sociological factors are far more complex than you're giving it credit for.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Dec 4, 2015)

MbS said:


> So if these people had not been able to purchase the guns in the first place, then the  shooting wouldn't have happened?
> 
> Whooops.



Are you saying people who are willing to break the law will care for a law they'll find ways around if need be?There are legal and illegal channels to get a gun or weapon if someone has the connections, knowledge and method.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 4, 2015)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Are you saying people who are willing to break the law will care for a law they'll find ways around if need be?There are legal and illegal channels to get a gun or weapon if someone has the connections, knowledge and method.



Bruh, I've already covered this.

Again it's not 100% perfect - nothing ever is, let's make murder legal since it doesn't stop every single one - but is what the US currently got really doing a great job at preserving life?

lol no.

I mean, arming teachers and employees and the trash man and being vigilant 24/7. Is that the best you got? Your best isn't good enough.

But on the topic of the black market.

That bushmaster gun Lanza was gonna use at Sandy Hook cost $1000 in the US, and you can buy it in Walmart, and it’ll even be delivered to your house. That same gun in Australia on the black market costs $34,000.


----------



## raizen28 (Dec 4, 2015)

MbS said:


> Bruh, I've already covered this.
> 
> Again it's not 100% perfect - nothing ever is, let's make murder legal since it doesn't stop every single one - but is what the US currently got really doing a great job at preserving life?
> 
> ...


People in South Central can get a AR for 100$


----------



## Vivo Diez (Dec 4, 2015)

USA has 4 times the murder rate UK has per x amount of people. Also, murders with firearms is 138 times higher per x amount of people in USA(UK has really strict gun laws).

Keep in mind the general crime rate per x amount of people is 3 times higher in UK.


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Dec 5, 2015)

WTF happened yesterday with MSM and a appartement?


----------



## Zyrax (Dec 5, 2015)

Vivo Diez said:


> USA has 4 times the murder rate UK has per x amount of people. Also, murders with firearms is 138 times higher per x amount of people in USA(UK has really strict gun laws).
> 
> Keep in mind the general crime rate per x amount of people is 3 times higher in UK.


B-but the Yuros are so much better than dem Backward Redneck Muricans 

Liberals BTFO


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 5, 2015)

*NY Times, CNN Fall For Fake Eyewitness Blaming San Bernardino on GamerGate*



> The New York Times, CNN, and Associated Press all fell for an elaborate hoax where a troll pretended to be a witness to the San Bernardino shooting.
> 
> A Twitter user using the handle of @JewyMarie tweeting during the attacks claiming to be a witness. A number of reporters then contacted her, and she managed to bluff her way an through an extensive interview with AP, which was then reported by The Times:
> 
> ...







WAD said:


> It's completely different.
> 
> Like RB said earlier ITT, we are a nation founded on guns. The sociological factors are far more complex than you're giving it credit for.



Not drastically so. We were not a nation founded on guns...but gun ownership, or more accurately, the right to defend oneself is a cornerstone of America's foundation. We have allowed ourselves to be suckered by groups that don't really care about such principles however. It would take decades to change that way of thinking. I'm not against gun ownership, and I own a few myself, but the pro-gun arguments are complete bullshit. They just ignore reality.


----------



## BashFace (Dec 5, 2015)

Why do people think discriminating or taking rights away from Muslims and the mentally ill is appropriate or humanistically just? 

All of you need to get rid of the guns, you can't say I use it for safety because they aren't safe and your kid or yourself can shoot someone purposely or accidently. 

If its put out of reach or in a secure place then its not efficiently concealed in the sense that you can actually use it in the hasty abruptness of a break in which is the most common hypothetical. 

You all need to stop with this discrimination shit and realize you're all a bunch of fucking psychos. 

Your government has drones and nukes so forget that Thomas Edison bullshit of revolting against your inconsiderate or maniacal government. 

Lets debate liberal over shit because we're scared and fucking stupid, yeah seems like its working. 

I hope more of your children die so they don't pass on this misnomer bullshit, you ignorant and insensitive fucks. 

These mass shootings don't even compare to the amount of people dying cause of this stupid cyclical nonsense, you see firecrackers and can let it slide but if its dynamite its all of a sudden an issue where gun powder or gun control needs some form of regulation.

It doesn't need to be regulated, fuck the problem off all together by banning guns for everyone otherwise you'll see terrorism and autists as scapegoats for power hungry rednecks. 

Mass genocide is taking place daily because of this ignorance and these "regulations" but nobody gives a shit if people shoot themselves or others in homicides unless they're extremely macabre and prone to sensationalism its only if 14 people or whatever drop dead at once its up for discussion. 

Like I said smarten up or die stupid fat idiot nerds.


----------



## Sherlōck (Dec 5, 2015)

Mael said:


> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-shooting-isis-idUSKBN0TN1SR20151204
> 
> It was the wife.
> 
> And look what we have here.



Never marry a Pakistani living in Shit Arab.Its a shame no one told him that.


----------



## Wilykat (Dec 5, 2015)

Gun control don't work as well as those pompous in US Govermnet thinks.


----------



## Sherlōck (Dec 5, 2015)

And the world has gone to shit,all good law abiding citizens are dead & criminals are ruling everywhere.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 5, 2015)

Wilykat said:


> Gun control don't work as well as those pompous in US Govermnet thinks.



In the face of overwhelming tested scenarios and statistics and results, this guy knows better on the assumption that posting an image on an Animay forum somehow trumps all of that.


----------



## Zyrax (Dec 5, 2015)

Wilykat said:


> Gun control don't work as well as those pompous in US Govermnet thinks.


B-but everyone knows that Criminals abide by the law


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 5, 2015)

That guns somehow deter/prevents gun crime, despite contrary evidence, is kinda funny if it didn't yield such tragic results.

And that's the thing that's really triggering me. Gun-humpers don't have to prove they're theories - they can't - they're 'self-evident, hurr', it's the gun control advocates - rightly - have to prove the 'facts' constantly and it's been found to work, but it's not 100% so it's not good enough.

What the US has is less effective and no good. It's not perfect, so by gun-humpers logic that should be scrapped too... 'b-but... I like guns'.


----------



## Zyrax (Dec 5, 2015)

MbS said:


> That guns somehow deter/prevents gun crime, despite contrary evidence, is kinda funny if it didn't yield such tragic results.
> 
> And that's the thing that's really triggering me. Gun-humpers don't have to prove they're theories - they can't - they're 'self-evident, hurr', it's the gun control advocates - rightly - have to prove the 'facts' constantly and it's been found to work, but it's not 100% so it's not good enough.
> 
> What the US has is less effective and no good. It's not perfect, so by gun-humpers logic that should be scrapped too - but... 'I like guns'.


I don't even like Guns Dipshit 

I simply don't find it necessary to ban them for the sake of feels


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 5, 2015)

Jesus Christ, Wilykat I hope you were being sarcastic.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Dec 5, 2015)

Zyrax Pasha said:


> I don't even like Guns Dipshit
> 
> I simply don't find it necessary to ban them for the sake of feels
> 
> the ones who are advocating their bans are ones who had an abusive Conserative Father so they look down on "Traditional" things and obsess with being "progressive".



Who says I'm even talking to you, dipshit, I'd quote you if I was, like now.

Who says I want to 'ban' guns?

Who says this is anything to do with feels?

Who says Arabs are Caucasians, cause you're certainly not on my level.


----------



## SLB (Dec 5, 2015)

who says zyrax is a remotely coherent person worth discussing shit with?

he's an oaf, MbS. 

and seto i doubt wilykat was being sarcastic tbh.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 5, 2015)

MbS said:


> Who says I want to 'ban' guns?



over my cold dead body


----------



## Distracted (Dec 5, 2015)

*Thread is now re-opened.  It's cool to discuss gun control, I just want people to keep cooler heads and not flame as much.  I deleted posts that were off topic that didn't seem to be more intended for trolling than humor.

Also I deleted an entire conversation just cause I was tired of bashface posting a new obnoxious gif at the end of every one of his posts.  Just tone down the insults and don't be bashface and we're all gonna be good.  Thread reopened.*


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## makeoutparadise (Dec 5, 2015)

There are other people who have guns aside from civilians and criminals and they're the police and the army
Support our troops


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## Punished Pathos (Dec 5, 2015)

Wilykat said:


> Gun control don't work as well as those pompous in US Govermnet thinks.



What the fuck bro?
Dude, guns are terrible.
I'm at peace knowing that the Police will protect me should some armed criminal decides to break into my place 
I want to be defenseless, I want to submit to the government and the politicians that have armed bodyguards 24/7


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## Alita (Dec 5, 2015)

Of course mega tries to blame Obama for this. 

This was one of those situations where nothing could have been done to stop it. Everything these two did up to the point of the massacre was legal and they were able to conceal what they were doing so nobody had a reason to alert someone.



Kagekatsu said:


> So apparently, reporters from CNN and MSNBC went through Farook and Malik's apartment and sifted through all their belongings...before the police even gave them permission to do so. All the while holding up personal effects from other people who may not be connected to the shooting, or perhaps were and now they have a heads-up tip to leave before the authorities arrive.
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats guys, you made Fox News look like consummate professionals.



The police and FBI had already searched the place and left though. They were given permission to go in.



baconbits said:


> They're stronger, but certainly not perfect.  The execution of the two wars was actually well done.  After the initial conflict we had a problem sustaining our gains.  The surge in Iraq worked well until we began to retreat from that state.  Afghanistan was essentially won after the Bush administration, but was sort of given away by Obama.
> 
> There have been problems, mainly because politicians aren't as realist as they need to be, but its not been as stupid as many liberal solutions/proposals have been.  If you compare Bush's handling of terrorism with Obama's Bush is the clear winner, when you take bias out of the picture.  The fact that Obama is resisting calling the latest atrocity terrorism should tell you how twisted his thinking is.



Republicans answer to most foreign policy problems is to go to war. I woulden't call that good foreign policy and certainly not better than Obama's. 

There's a reason why the decision to invade Iraq and Afghanistan is considered by many to be the worst foreign policy decision in American history.


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## Arles Celes (Dec 6, 2015)

On the plus side you never end up bored in the USA. 

Who knows what sort of adventure might await you in every corner?


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## Alwaysmind (Dec 6, 2015)

Wilykat said:


> Gun control don't work as well as those pompous in US Govermnet thinks.



It did in Australia.


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## Megaharrison (Dec 6, 2015)

I found a copy of Barry's speech to the nation


*Spoiler*: __ 



My..uh...Fellow Americans. A few uhhhhhh days ago, we were hit with yet another act of senseless violence. But we must uhhhhh remember that this should not become the uhhhh norm, we do not have to live this way. These acts of uhhhhhh violence does not happen anywhere else in the world. That is why I am uhhhhh going to being pursuing unilateral actions to introduce common sense gun control including a ban on all assault weapons. I uhhhhh invite congress to work with me, but if they do not I will uhhhhhh take this burden myself. When doing this we must uhhhhh ask ourselves how many more mass killings we must uhhhhh have before we as a nation have finally had enouuuuuuugh. 

As to those who would dare slander the Islamic faith for this uhhhhh. We must remember that the future does not belong to those who uhhhhh criticize the Prophet (PBUH). Americans must uhhhhhh remember that Islam is a religion of peace, and the people perpetrating these uhhhhhhh random acts of violence are not Muslims. That is why I uhhhh instructed Attorney General Lynch to begin investigations into uhhhh Islamophobes and those who slander this uhhhhhhh religion of peace

Good night, and uhhhhhh free Palestine


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 6, 2015)

Man. Conservative humor sucks.


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## Oceania (Dec 6, 2015)

Megaharrison said:


> I found a copy of Barry's speech to the nation
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Pretty spot on if you ask me.


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## Alita (Dec 6, 2015)

Megaharrison said:


> I found a copy of Barry's speech to the nation
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Is this supposed to be funny?


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