# Pairing thread



## -Ziltoid- (Sep 25, 2014)

Well, don't know if it is according to the rules or not, but I suppose a pairing thread isn't really unnecessary now. Seeing how both NaruSaku and SasuSaku got killed in today's chapter:
- Sakura confirmed to love Sasuke; no romantic feelings for Naruto from her side
- Sasuke confirmed to not give a shit about Sakura, but.. "hatred will transform into love" 

But, knowing this forum, there will be a lot of deviating opinions.. I wonder how this chapter can be explained differently though


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## Marsala (Sep 25, 2014)

NaruSasu's looking good, though. "The hate that turns to love."


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## Mizura (Sep 25, 2014)

Yup. NaruSasu still canon.


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## falconzx (Sep 25, 2014)

I don't really care for pairing, but NS will be happening alright. The other NS

This fight will raise its fandom to the highest point.


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## COREYxYEROC (Sep 25, 2014)

sasuke is gonna end up with sakura sadly... it was pretty clear from this chapter.
sasuke doesn 'love' anything since his parents died. hes gonna get that love and go with sakura.
sakura still loves him for some weird reason and kishi would not make her love him if this wasnt hiis plan

i wanted sakura and naruto but i guess that main hero cant get everything hewants in this story XD
im not too bothered cause pairings aint really something i constantly think about. only when im on this forum for some reason


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## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

I'm not sure whether to consider Sakura's declaration there past tense or not, but either way all of these pairings still seem one-sided as hell.

This chapter also confirms that Naruto still cares very much about the promise, meaning that he was indeed burdened by it and that he really loves Sakura as Sai put it.


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## Mr Horrible (Sep 25, 2014)

There was an awful lot of past tense about Sakura's love .


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## stream (Sep 25, 2014)

At this point, I don't think we're gonna get any pairing at all between the three.


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## Tayimus (Sep 25, 2014)

Yeah I'm a NaruSaku Shipper and all I got outta this chapter was NaruSasu undertones...

Although, Sakura did state her love for Sasuke in the past tense


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## αshɘs (Sep 25, 2014)

The promise also got reconfirmed. This doesn't change much, but I know lots of people considered it called off during the Kage Summit arc.


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## Mr Horrible (Sep 25, 2014)

I am just going to leave this here:
[sp][/sp]


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## mayumi (Sep 25, 2014)

NaruSasu is still good. Different kind of love Sasuke and Naruto will learn. LOL.


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## Overhaul (Sep 25, 2014)

ontopic@The only pairing I support in this manga is TobiTobi. So this chapter didn't effect me one bit in my pairing choices.


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## Tifa Lockhart (Sep 25, 2014)

lol NS.

If Naruto did in fact hold some kind of romantic affection/interest for Sakura, wouldn't he convey sadness after hearing her confession? But instead he looks calm.


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## Selva (Sep 25, 2014)

Sasuke said it plain and simple 'I'm not interested'. Seriously, what should he do to convince the pairing shippers that he just doesn't love Sakura? 
But, I'll be waiting for the raws to make sure that Sakura did speak in the past tense about her love.

As for NaruSaku, yeah lol. If anything, Sakura's still not in love with Naruto, still got the hots for Sasuke even after everything that happened. And honestly, I don't want this bitch near Naruto. Why would I want her to end up with him when she's been lusting after another guy for the entirety of the manga and only ends up with Naruto because he's the only option she has right now? Naruto deserves better.


Marsala said:


> NaruSasu's looking good, though. "The hate that turns to love."


This right here


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## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

Tifa Lockhart said:


> lol NS.
> 
> If Naruto did in fact hold some kind of romantic affection/interest for Sakura, wouldn't he convey sadness after hearing her confession? But instead he looks calm.


I don't think you understand Naruto as a character... nor do you know how to read things within context. You're basically asking for something that doesn't need to be there.


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## COREYxYEROC (Sep 25, 2014)

Selva said:


> Sasuke said it plain and simple 'I'm not interested'. Seriously, what should he do to convince the pairing shippers that he just doesn't love Sakura?
> But, I'll be waiting for the raws to make sure that Sakura did speak in the past tense about her love.
> 
> As for NaruSaku, yeah lol. If anything, Sakura's still not in love with Naruto, still got the hots for Sasuke even after everything that happened. And honestly, I don't want this bitch near Naruto. Why would I want her to end up with him when she's been lusting after another guy for the entirety of the manga and only ends up with Naruto because he's the only option she has right now? Naruto deserves better.
> ...



well by that logic hinata deserves better too. well i guess there are no pairings


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## Selva (Sep 25, 2014)

COREYxYEROC said:


> well by that logic hinata deserves better too. well i guess there are no pairings


I don't really care about Hinata. She can die too for all I care


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## Vermilion Kn (Sep 25, 2014)

Sakura is a fucking basket case. In RL she would be buying her 10th cat at this point due to men avoiding her like the plague. Nardo is a young demigod and can probably score anyone with his power and fame. Why settle for this dumb bitch ?


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## Arya Stark (Sep 25, 2014)

People clinging onto past tense without giving a damn about the context. NarSak is at it again


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## emachina (Sep 25, 2014)

Sasuke: "I hate you Sakura! From the moment I met you, everything about you made me sick! I despise you, I'd kill you if it was worth the effort. There is nothing about you that I find appealing, attractive, or wanting in a friend, a lover, or even as a human being. I despise you with every fiber of my being. I hate you with the red hot intensity of a thousand burning suns"!

Hardcore SasuSaku fans: "Awwwww"!


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Team 7 is a mess, and they have a _horrendous_ relationship with one another. 

There really isn't any developments that could feasibly make any of the pairings between them palatable or feasible, and that goes especially for SasuSaku. Like how the fuck does anyone still ship that shit at this point?



> Sasuke: "I hate you Sakura! From the moment I met you, everything about you made me sick! I despise you, I'd kill you if it was worth the effort. There is nothing about you that I find appealing, attractive, or wanting Ina friend, a lover, or even as a human being. I despise you with every fiber of my being. I hate you with the red hot intensity of a thousand burning suns"!
> 
> Hardcore SasuSaku fans: "Awwwww"!



Seriously. They make excuses for everything.

They don't care what happens between them. They don't care how badly Sakura gets mistreated as a result, just as long as she's still there for some vicarious wet dream of getting with Sasuke.


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## Tifa Lockhart (Sep 25, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> I don't think you understand Naruto as a character... nor do you know how to read things within context. You're basically asking for something that doesn't need to be there.



Asking for something that doesn't need to be there? 





Selva said:


> I don't really care about Hinata. She can die too for all I care



Your arguments are weak if you have to restort to "idgaf she can die".


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## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> People clinging onto past tense without giving a damn about the context. NarSak is at it again


If it's past tense, do you think she's trying to convey her current "intense" love for him? You know, maybe she's just pissed off that the guy didn't give a shit about her whenever she was in love with him? Even Kakashi's words about her current feelings are past tense... I'd say she confirmed what Kakashi suspected about her feelings.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Tifa Lockhart said:


> Your arguments are weak if you have to restort to "idgaf she can die".



It probably has to do with the fact that it's not an argument, genius. She's making a statement on her own position on the matter.


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## Tifa Lockhart (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It probably has to do with the fact that it's not an argument, genius. She's making a statement on her own position on the matter.



Ironically your "arguments" contain this too, genius.


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## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

Tifa Lockhart said:


> Asking for something that doesn't need to be there?
> 
> .


Do you even remember what was going on back in that arc? He was pissed off at her for attempting to manipulate him. He must have definitely been saddened there, just not outwardly in the way that you're looking for. You are still asking for something that doesn't need to be there.


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## Derezzed (Sep 25, 2014)

I cannot believe how fucking retarded and delusional some people can be...


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Tifa Lockhart said:


> Ironically your "arguments" contain this too, genius.



That's because shippers like you always think we have to pick a side and just argue on why that particular pairing is gonna happen. Which is just plain stupid, and really only reveals a limited way of thinking.

What matters more to a person like myself is the how of a matter, not the when. I see nothing in these where the "how" is good enough to warrant a "when". You guys obviously don't care about any of that on the other hand. As long as the pairing happens is what matters, and it obviously just makes a bunch of rabid shippers ready to excuse the illogical.


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## Kusa (Sep 25, 2014)

Mizura said:


> Yup. NaruSasu still canon.



/thread



Naruto is going to be the one who will turn Sasukes hatred into love. He is going to do something that every girl who fell in love with Sasuke could not.That alone makes NS better, than  shitty straight Sasuke pairing in this manga.


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## Addy (Sep 25, 2014)

i got more narusasu vibes to be honest.

naruto turning sasuke's hate into love


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## arokh (Sep 25, 2014)

Why the hell would Naruto be interested in Sakura, when he got the smoking hot Byakugan wielding Hinata? I don't see why he should go for Sasuke's leftovers and be Sakura's #2 choice when he himself is a God.


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## Kurama (Sep 25, 2014)

Lol this was pretty entertaining.

Kishi kicking Sasuke's douchbagness up a notch...we'll see how far that declaration of not caring goes. Looks like its gonna be a while tho. Apparently we're gettin a bit of Storytime with Sauce next chapter.

NS needs to have a seat tho, mentioning the promise doesn't validate any "love" from Naruto, especially when he immediately goes "oh well, she would've just interfered anyway, saves us the trouble...." When she's oh right, put in the genjutsu instead of killed.

This was basically a warped ass version of 181/183.

I really wouldn't cling so hard to the past tense use to describe Sakura's love as some evidence she's over him either. Hell yea she'll be pissed and unwilling to pursue him, but time *cough* New Era Project *cough* can fix that. Says absolute shit about her switching to Naruto.

As far as the Big 3 go, NH is still chillin bored as fuck by the finish line watching SS & NS trip all over eachother.


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## conradoserpa (Sep 25, 2014)

*Sasuke: "I'm not interested in her at all"*

Yet he use a genjutsu on her instead of killing her... I do believe he's not interest in this love thing, but looks like he still cares about her, otherwise she would be dead already.


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## SharkBomb 4 (Sep 25, 2014)

Sasuke didn't express any strong emotions for Sakura in this chapter. He didn't show rage, passion, or hatred. He just showed continued annoyance with her and her feelings. It wasn't "I hate you Sakura!" it was "I'm not interested". This should speak volumes about Sasuke's side of this pairing.

The hatred he expressed was for Naruto and the current world. The thing that will be turned into (nonromantic) love in this case is that. Pairings just don't work into the equation when the Sauce is still being the sauce.


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## Tahj Sarutobi (Sep 25, 2014)

*Sakura no longer loves Sasuke???*

In part 1 when Sasuke went Sakura says don't go I love you:



However, now when she says that she does not want him to leave, she says I *LOVED* you:


This is because Sakura's love for Sasuke has changed, now she just wans Sasuke back as a teammate the way things were before, she has seen how bad things are and she did not expect him to go psycho.

Kakashi's observation:


Sai's observation:



Sakura actually does want Sasuke back as a teammate hence the sincere words, but her feelings for Sasuke have changed it is almost weary, she is sick of his bullshit and is hoping that he overcomes his madness.

To be honest I think there should be no pairing in this manga as Kishimoto does not know how to write one and all of them would be bullshit from NaruSaku, NaruHina to NaruSasu, at the end of the day only Shikatema is making any sense.


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## emachina (Sep 25, 2014)

SharkBomb 4 said:


> Sasuke didn't express any strong emotions for Sakura in this chapter. He didn't show rage, passion, or hatred. He just showed continued annoyance with her and her feelings. It wasn't "I hate you Sakura!" it was "I'm not interested". This should speak volumes about Sasuke's side of this pairing.
> 
> The hatred he expressed was for Naruto and the current world. The thing that will be turned into (nonromantic) love in this case is that. Pairings just don't work into the equation when the Sauce is still being the sauce.



Dude just mind raped her into thinking she has a hole in her chest. He could have genjutsued her to sleep, to thinks she was getting through to him and there'd be a happy ending, or to make her think she was anywhere else doing anything else. But nope, mind rape chest hole. That speaks volumes about Sasuke's side of this pairing more than anything else.


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## Harbour (Sep 25, 2014)

Yeah, it sounds like she loved him in the past, cause she never thought he will turn out to be such an asshole. And Sasuke directly said "I don't give a darn about you". So, NS FTW.


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## Tahj Sarutobi (Sep 25, 2014)

Sasusaku should be off the table now as neither Sasuke nor Sakura love each other, at least Sakura did not stoop to Karin level.


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## -JT- (Sep 25, 2014)

I know this is off topic, but I had forgotten about this page with Shikamaru (and Ino) noticing something was up. What was the point in showing them?


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## The Faceless Man (Sep 25, 2014)

I guess people missed the point....

Sakura still loves him... it is Sasuke who doesn't have the will to love anyone but himself.
Naruto will change that... Sasuke will love her like he will love other things in life...

Sasusaku is so obivous that it hurts at this point.

Naruto  already has Hinata


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## falconzx (Sep 25, 2014)

The only problem with this is how do you know that translation is correct, in that they interpret Kishi's wording correctly ?


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## Mr Horrible (Sep 25, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Naruto will change that... Sasuke will love her like he will love other things in life...



It is hilarious that not only does SS rely on Naruto to redeem Sasuke (read; stop him trying to kill Sakura), but also make him love Sakura .

Good fucking lord, as an SS supporter you'd have to either dislike Naruto as a character or hope he doesn't still love Sakura .


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## Tahj Sarutobi (Sep 25, 2014)

Mr Horrible said:


> It is hilarious that not only does SS rely on Naruto to redeem Sasuke (read; stop him trying to kill Sakura), but also make him love Sakura .
> 
> Good fucking lord, as an SS supporter you'd have to either dislike Naruto as a character or hope he doesn't still love Sakura .



I know it is a joke, but if you look carefully at the comment you will realise that this person is a Naruhina shipper and so wants Sakura out of the way so that Hinata can get with Naruto who has shown zero interest in Hinata beyond a friend.


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## Bahamut Slayer (Sep 25, 2014)

emachina said:


> Dude just mind raped her into thinking she has a hole in her chest. He could have genjutsued her to sleep, to thinks she was getting through to him and there'd be a happy ending, or to make her think she was anywhere else doing anything else. But nope, mind rape chest hole. That speaks volumes about Sasuke's side of this pairing more than anything else.



Don't be surprised if SasuSaku fans interpret it as Sasuke caring about her by not killing her since he easily can and instead chose to just put her under a Genjutsu. 

A stab to the chest genjutsu? I think it just shows what Sasuke wants to do instead of doing it. Fictional love is just messed up, whether it's from a manga artist or a supposedly romance film. It's nothing like reality.


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## Nic (Sep 25, 2014)

Thought kakashi's statement made this obvious.  Guess not. 

Funny how the argument to counter kakashi's statement was that he meant it was a crush that turned to true love when now all of a sudden it is flat on stated she loved. Oh well.....

Also anti NS worst nightmare Showed up. The promise of a lifetime that is meant to be followed by his confession. (Something obito blamed himself for not doing)


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Bahamut Slayer said:


> Don't be surprised if SasuSaku fans interpret it as Sasuke caring about her by not killing her since he easily can and instead chose to just put her under a Genjutsu.
> 
> A stab to the chest genjutsu? I think it just shows what Sasuke wants to do instead of doing it. Fictional love is just messed up, whether it's from a manga artist or a supposedly romance film. It's nothing like reality.



Well in the ideal sense, such portrayals can be unrealistic but far from fucked up. "Boy Meets World" with Corey and Topanga for example, highly improbable, yet ideal. 

Ultimately the matter of love can be constructive or destructive depending on context; so it could also be realistic, but fucked up. This is a matter that is very fucked up, and in many bad ways, somewhat realistic. Girls that consistently pine for a guy that mistreats them isn't exactly unheard of. 

It'd be more accurate to say the portrayals are not representation of the matter as it typically occurs, but not unheard of either. Sometimes, a Corey and Topanga does happen. On the other side of the matter, most girls, most people, would have more respect for themselves than Sakura to continue pining for a guy like Sasuke or anyone else like that, as it pertains to this story. Sakura is, contrary to Kishi's intent not really a faithful representation of a normal girl; most girls develop more sense of self-worth, respect, and common sense than this. Chalk it up ultimately to Kishi's ineptitude in understanding women.


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## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

In b4 people try and use 540 as an example that Sakura still loves Sasuke, even though Sakura herself is talking about her love in past tense here.


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## The Faceless Man (Sep 25, 2014)

Mr Horrible said:


> It is hilarious that not only does SS rely on Naruto to redeem Sasuke (read; stop him trying to kill Sakura), but also make him love Sakura .
> 
> Good fucking lord, as an SS supporter you'd have to either dislike Naruto as a character or hope he doesn't still love Sakura .



Naruto is my fav character.

But its obivous when kishi says hate that turns to love... unless you're blind 
Sasuke will love Sakura.... cuz plot.


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## fakkiha (Sep 25, 2014)

She needed her dose of douchebagness, she loves him more after the genjutsu.


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## COREYxYEROC (Sep 25, 2014)

yay naruto x sakura confirmed XD


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## Raiden (Sep 25, 2014)

I'm guessing this confirms that no pairings are going to happen by the manga's end. Even if Naruto wins, Sasuke just isn't interested in Sakura. Would be strange if he liked her all of a sudden.


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## ShadowFox88 (Sep 25, 2014)

If this chapter doesn't convince you of how utterly garbage the big 3 are, I don't know what the fuck to tell you.


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## Shattering (Sep 25, 2014)

Why was narusaku killed? Sakura used past tense, anyway I'm all in for Narusasu lol


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## Kusa (Sep 25, 2014)

Does it even matter ? Sasuke is not intrerested in her and even if he turns good, he is not going to be suddenly interested in her. As long as Sasuke is not romanticaly interested, this pairing cannot happen anyway.


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## -Ziltoid- (Sep 25, 2014)

Shattering said:


> Why was narusaku killed? Sakura used past tense, anyway I'm all in for Narusasu lol



Sakura cries and confesses to Sasuke, ignores Naruto.

Naruto not giving a shit.

What does NS have in this chapter that didn't kill it? The hope that Sakura finally stops chasing Sasuke?


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## Selva (Sep 25, 2014)

Tifa Lockhart said:


> Your arguments are weak if you have to restort to "idgaf she can die".


lol argument. I'd say the one who had to bring in Hinata into the discussion when it wasn't even about her is the weak one here.
For some reason, some of you guys can't comprehend that we can actually bash a pairing without shipping the opposing one.


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## fakkiha (Sep 25, 2014)

People ships seriously in this shit manga....


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## Raiden (Sep 25, 2014)

Raiden said:


> I'm guessing this confirms that no pairings are going to happen by the manga's end. Even if Naruto wins, Sasuke just isn't interested in Sakura. Would be strange if he liked her all of a sudden.



Apologies for the error. SasuNaru takes lead .


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## Yuna (Sep 25, 2014)

Bitch, please. She turned down Love Letter Fodder Nin because she was still so in love with Sasuke should wouldn't even consider dating anyone else and in this very chapter alone, she cried and shouted "Please stay by my side! I'm sure that if we're together, we'll be able to be happy!" at Sasuke.


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## Turrin (Sep 25, 2014)

If the translation is correct it does seem that way.


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## DarQDawG (Sep 25, 2014)




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## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

Fuck. 

MS messing around with my past tense interpretation.


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## falconzx (Sep 25, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> Fuck.
> 
> MS messing around with my past tense interpretation.



I told ya.                                   

You can't trust translations of manga in small details like that, unless there's actually a translator note


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## Arisu (Sep 25, 2014)

Like it isn't obvious Sakura loved him all this time and still does. You have to be really in denial not to grasp this at this point


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## Darth lelouch (Sep 25, 2014)

What "I *still* loved you" mean ? MS tracduction is better with "I love you".


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## Matta Clatta (Sep 25, 2014)

well looks like this thread is a bit wrong


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## Rios (Sep 25, 2014)

He basically friendzoned her int this very chapter. Why does it matter how she feels?


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## Arles Celes (Sep 25, 2014)

For a ship both sides must be willing.

Sasuke isn't particularly...enthusiastic.

As for Sakura maybe she wanted to tnj him by reminding him how much she used to love him and that it could all be back to those happy days they used to have. Love blackmail.

Or maybe she still loves him and the translation was in present tense. She still loved him when talking to the love letter fodder which happened like a day ago.


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## Tahj Sarutobi (Sep 25, 2014)

Darth lelouch said:


> What "I *still* loved you" mean ? MS tracduction is better with "I love you".



It would have meant; despite what you did I loved you, but now I see you for what you truly are and want you to change.

However, my error was expecting any sort of dignity or growth concerning a female character in Kishimoto's manga.

I will have to check the raw scan and translate it myself instead to determine whether she loves Sasuke or loved him.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 25, 2014)

I don't think he hates her or disavows her feelings as much as he lets on to believing.


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## RockSauron (Sep 25, 2014)

Yes, she magically stopped loving him in the past 24 hours because she said she loved him, something we already knew, and got really into wanting him to stay. 

This is a whole other level of delusion O_o


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 25, 2014)

I actually want them to be a couple, basically would lead to domestic abuse every 6-7 weeks


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## Punk Zebra (Sep 25, 2014)

Please! Who are you fooling OP? *SAKURA WILL NEVER GIVE UP THE SAUCE.*


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## Puppetry (Sep 25, 2014)

Even if the translation is accurate, I wouldn't put much stock in it. Have we forgotten the Kage Summit Arc so quickly? He'll treat her like the trash she is and she'll accept it, regardless of whatever comes out of her lying mouth.


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## Arisu (Sep 25, 2014)

Even in the mp version, Sasuke's answer to Sakura's words is...

'I don't see what she likes about me...'

Seems like from what she was saying he understood that she still has feelings for him, not that she used to have them.


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## Tayimus (Sep 25, 2014)

Man, Naruto gets no respect.  Sasuke says he's gonna kill Naruto and Sakura still says she loves/loved Sasuke.  And Naruto just stands there and takes it.  How does he still like this girl?!  HOW?!

To be honest, I thought Sakura was gonna say something like if Sasuke killed Naruto, she'd never rest til she killed Sasuke.  Doesn't have to be a Shipping moment so much as a Friendship moment but NOOO.  We got that...waste of panels.  It could have been such a great moment for her character...

Fuck I hate Sakura so much.  Actually, no.  I hate Kishi for writing Sakura like that.  Dammit, the best written females in this manga are the ones we rarely get to see ugh!


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## Hitou Nami (Sep 25, 2014)

SS confirmed if you ask me, not seeing it is very awkward


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## Arles Celes (Sep 25, 2014)

Basically Twilight with "ninjas" 

Problem?


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## Chaelius (Sep 25, 2014)

There is no coming back once you lust for Uchiha D, Sakura, Karin and Naruto are just a few of the characters afflicted with this pathological condition.


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## Kusa (Sep 25, 2014)

Chaelius said:


> There is no coming back once you lust for Uchiha D, Sakura, Karin and Naruto are just a few of the characters afflicted with this pathological condition.



Atleast Naruto is going somewhere with his Uchiha lust. Afterall he will be the one who will turn his hatred into love.


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## santanico (Sep 25, 2014)

Poor Sakura tho :/


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## Hydro Spiral (Sep 25, 2014)

Man.

The_ laaaaaaast _fucking thing she needs is a romantic relationship with either. I'm sorry.

Look at what she thinks of herself in this situation! That's so fucked up  I actually feel sorry for her.

And FFS, Naruto trying to save him doesn't sound very sane after what he just did to her.

Times like this ya wish the author had the stones to end Sasuke.


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## Lelouch71 (Sep 25, 2014)

One can hope Sakura finally gets the message that Sasuke isn't interested. At this point she needs to let go because it just downright pathetic. Sasuke treated like shit and tried to kill her multiple times. That isn't love that is more like a sick twisted abusive relationship. Even Sasuke think she is a dumbass.


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## kmccaskill (Sep 25, 2014)

*Naruto 693- The Most Homo Erotic Naruto Chapter*

Yaoi in full bloom, yeah not surprised if Sasuke ends the series as the Blonde's bride


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## Sete (Sep 25, 2014)

Im eager that the Manga ends so im proved right. And on that day... Its gonna be epic.


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## Rosi (Sep 25, 2014)

Why should there be any Big3 pairing anyway. They are much better off as three best friends. All this pairing bs will just fuck up Team 7 dynamics.


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## Gaawa-chan (Sep 25, 2014)

I really don't understand people shipping any Sasuke pairings at all anymore.

SasuKarin? That girl needs to be put in a mental hospital, not have her one-sided obsession fed into.

SasuSaku?  Christ.  Just as bad as the above. Even if he did reciprocate her feelings, you think their relationship would be all hunky dory?  Sakura would have to constantly delude herself into believing she was happy sharing a bed with a complete and total asshole who incessantly belittles her and outright told her from the beginning of the series that she _makes him sick_ and is not above physically and mentally harming her for petty reasons.

And SasuNaru is the worst offender of all.  Sasuke has only tried to kill Karin once, and Sakura twice.  Sasuke shoved his fist through Naruto's lung in what would have been a fatal move if not for Kurama _before the time-skip._  Compare that to what he did to Sakura when she tried to stop him.  The only part of Naruto that Sasuke has any respect for is Naruto's capability as a fighter, and that only started because of his inferiority complex, courtesy of his father constantly comparing him to his brother, along with his drive to become stronger.  It only continued because Sasuke then put himself in a position where he is a foe of Konoha.  He's tried to kill Naruto more than once since then. And now.  Now he openly expresses the desire to kill Naruto AGAIN, and for what?  This batshit plan of his?  Sasuke is just as much of a dick to Naruto as he is to Sakura and Karin, and the only difference is that Naruto doesn't cry like a little schoolgirl over it; he gets angry instead.  Yeah, a relationship filled with anger and petty jealousy where the two involved constantly get in the way of each other's life-long goals sounds like true love to me.  "Hey, remember that time I shoved my fist through your lung and gloated as you choked on your own blood that there was no way you could survive?  And those other times I tried to kill you because I thought you'd be an impediment to my power-hungry goals because that's how little you mean to me? Yeah, baby, those were some good times."


----------



## Rios (Sep 25, 2014)

SasuNaru is the only true answer to everything.


----------



## lynxie (Sep 25, 2014)

Well this looks good for me.

I want Sakura to keep loving Sasuke, but he not returning her feelings.
Yeah I love one sided love stories. 


But that would be a bit boring for a pairing thread, so I go play devils advocate.

Sasuke certainly never been busy with love, so of course he has no thoughts about her, or any girl in that matter.

But that doesn't mean it can't change, actually for story point of view it would be good if he did ended up with loving someone.

If Sasuke is alive at the end of the manga, then I actually think the chance for him ending up with Sakura is pretty big.

Naruto certainly has also a chance, since he is the main character.

Still I would not be happy if Naruto ends up with Sakura, she always loved Sasuke, he would feel like second choice, and to me Naruto deserves a lot better...

NaruSasu seems the best couple. 
I think I would like this story a lot more if Naruto was an actual girl...


----------



## Sunspear7 (Sep 25, 2014)

Can I just say one thing as someone who doesn't really care about the Big3?

I like Sakura and Sasuke's characters way more when they are not interacting each other in a romantic way. Or in ways which can be interpreted romantic. Same goes for Naruto and Sakura's relationship too, but it seems obvious to me that they are only joking so it's not a real thing. 

I like Sakura as the girl who's working hard as hell to keep up with her Team and succeeding brilliantly, and Sasuke as the guy who has lost a lot and trying to change things and build something new from scratch (don't see the logic but I get his goal). But when SasuSaku drama begins, I am like "oh god no, they're at it again".


----------



## Edo Sensei (Sep 25, 2014)

Our queen delivered once again.


----------



## Arles Celes (Sep 25, 2014)

Gaawa-chan said:


> I really don't understand people shipping any Sasuke pairings at all anymore.
> 
> SasuKarin? That girl needs to be put in a mental hospital, not have her one-sided obsession fed into.
> 
> ...



What about ItaSasu?

Sasuke admitted that he loves Itachi more than anyone else.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Sep 25, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> What about ItaSasu?
> 
> Sasuke admitted that he loves Itachi more than anyone else.



I'll give it my stamp of approval if Sasuke spazzes out and kills himself in the next chapter because he misses Itachi too much.


----------



## Sage (Sep 25, 2014)

Hahahaha 

What a fantastic chapter. Kishi took a massive, heaping dump on NaruSaku and SasuSaku, a double KO. Kishi fuuuucking HAAAAATES her lol

Sakura: Sasuke-kewn I still love you!
Sasuke: Bitch STFU! Gawd you are always damn annoying, I told you for the thousandth time I don't give a shit, I don't love you!! leave me the fuck alone!...
Sakura: but.. but ... but.... 
Sasule: *stab*
Naruto: DUUUUDE! Holy shit! WTF man?! that was completely unnecessary... you didn't need to go that far!... 
Sasuke: Yeah I did!, she would have just kept annoying the shit out of me if she was conscious.
Naruto: Yeah you're probably right.... anyway want to race?
Sasuke: Yeah! 

*NaruSasu runs off together... leaving behind Sakura's corpse*

Naruto gave little to no fucks about Sakura and when they reached VotE... he was smiling 

Sasuke, oh typical Sasuke confirming never gave a shit about her all this time and icing on the cake just fucking rips on her self worth and shits all over her self respect before knocking her out.... wasn't even necessary for him to say all those degrading things to her and _again_ no remorse what so ever during or after


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 25, 2014)

naruto will end up with hinata, it will happen, team 7 pairings are too dysfunctional.


----------



## Njaa (Sep 25, 2014)

Just when you thought things couldn't get more convoluted, Kishi outdoes himself.

I knew there was a reason i liked the pairing drama in Naruto more than others. It's a hell of a lot more entertaining than the rest of the manga a lot of the time.


----------



## Muah (Sep 25, 2014)

Naruhina or gt do. Sasuke and Sakura deserve each other both are dumbass sad charcters.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 25, 2014)

My feelings don't matter.  Neither do Sasuke's.

He has as much right to say no as Kurama has to his own freedom.



I expect SS to happen because what Sasuke wants doesn't matter.  Team 7 fanservice comes first.


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Sep 25, 2014)

Just popped into the thread to see how crazy it is. 

But on a serious note, Sakura needs to let go. I mean really, let go. This is fiction though so given that, in the end it'll be more of a "statement" as stupid as it is. If any girls I knew were on a man like that then I'd have to step in. It's fiction though so in the eyes of Kishi it's "ok" although it's sad to us.


----------



## Kakugo (Sep 25, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> I guess people missed the point....
> 
> Sakura still loves him... it is Sasuke who doesn't have the will to love anyone but himself.
> Naruto will change that... Sasuke will love her like he will love other things in life...
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 











The Faceless Man said:


> Naruto  already has Hinata



Naruto loves Sakura and not Hinata. 



Mr Horrible said:


> It is hilarious that not only does SS rely on Naruto to redeem Sasuke (read; stop him trying to kill Sakura), but also make him love Sakura .
> 
> Good fucking lord, as an SS supporter you'd have to either dislike Naruto as a character or hope he doesn't still love Sakura .





Tahj Sarutobi said:


> I know it is a joke, but if you look carefully at the comment you will realise that this person is a Naruhina shipper and so wants Sakura out of the way so that Hinata can get with Naruto who has shown zero interest in Hinata beyond a friend.



Pretty much.


----------



## Tyrannos (Sep 25, 2014)

All I will say about this chapter, it's confirmed that Kishi sure loves toying with the pairings.   Depending on ones viewpoint, it looks like their pairing was confirmed and the other was destroyed.   But in reality Kishi put us back to square one.

Sasuke doesn't love Sakura
Sakura still loves Sasuke
Naruto still loves Sakura
Hinata still loves Naruto


Still anyone's game.  As I predicted long ago, Kishi's going to ink this to the very last chapter.


----------



## Tonga1 (Sep 25, 2014)

Tyrannos said:


> All I will say about this chapter, it's confirmed that Kishi sure loves toying with the pairings.   Depending on ones viewpoint, it looks like their pairing was confirmed and the other was destroyed.   But in reality Kishi put us back to square one.
> 
> Sasuke doesn't love Sakura
> Sakura still loves Sasuke
> ...



i say open ending, sure all this shit finish in the last movie


----------



## Young Lord Minato (Sep 25, 2014)

Sakura simply addressed her feelings for Sas; she didn't say whether she felt anyone for Naru. Plus, even if NS and SS are dead, my OTP is still possible, espeically if Sakura really can't let Sas go.

As fro Narusasu, I will not acknowledge it, for it is blasphemy and must scraped from the world


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 25, 2014)

Kakugo said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 





refresh my memory, when did naruto say he *loved* sakura?


----------



## Arya Stark (Sep 25, 2014)

This chapter confirms once again Sakura will never fall for Naruto. If she hasn't by now, there is no way she'll.

And Sasuke will be redeemed, no matter how much you hate the idea.

Why people try to jump on such obvious points, that baffles me. How do people expect a NaruSaku canonization with a genuine reunion after 693 chapters of no love? I don't see Naruto accepting a Sakura, who doesn't genuinely love him. And that'll never ever happen.

Baffles me to hell.

Though I can see SS getting an open-ending or Sakura ending up alone, I just really can't wrap my head around NaruSaku. 

Naruto's reaction was also ridiculous.  He's so gay for Sasuke, it's not even subtle anymore.


----------



## Amatérasu’s Son (Sep 25, 2014)

Kishi was firing weapons at ships this chapter like he was playing Battleship.

The JDS NaruSaku looks sunk to me and the JDS SasuSaku is on fire and taking on water.



Vermilion Kn said:


> Sakura is a fucking basket case. In RL she would be buying her 10th cat at this point due to men avoiding her like the plague. Nardo is a young demigod and can probably score anyone with his power and fame. Why settle for this dumb bitch ?



The weird thing is that there's nothing that indicates there's anything wrong with Sakura. Naruto had the hots for her as does Lee.

It would've been interesting to have some context on her standing. It would deepen the story if there was some context that Sakura was actually considered highly desirable by the young men of Konoha.

They had that Nightingale love thing with the shinobi in the anime where she healed him up and he fell in love with her. That may not be uncommon. Kishi needed to take a step back and show the world more in part 2 I swear.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Sep 25, 2014)

Tyrannos said:


> All I will say about this chapter, it's confirmed that Kishi sure loves toying with the pairings.   Depending on ones viewpoint, it looks like their pairing was confirmed and the other was destroyed.   But in reality Kishi put us back to square one.
> 
> Sasuke doesn't love Sakura
> Sakura still loves Sasuke
> ...



Naruto still loves Sakura? Since when? 
As far as I see it, Sakura and Naruto are just very good friends. Nothing more. Naruto is supporting SasuSaku for some reason, while Sakura doesn't even bother to think about NS. 

Naruto's feelings are ambiguous at best, and more likely to lean towards Hinata (hand holding, eyes, etc), than towards Sakura. Naruto is the first one to admit that Sakura is in love with Sasuke


----------



## Chaelius (Sep 25, 2014)

Amat?rasu?s Son said:


> Kishi was firing weapons at ships this chapter like he was playing Battleship.
> 
> The JDS NaruSaku looks sunk to me and the JDS SasuSaku is on fire and taking on water.
> 
> ...



Outside of Sasuke she's the character that is the most commented on in terms of being desirable/beautiful, Naruto and Lee have crushes on her, the love letter fodder fell for her during the war(That was in the manga too), Jiraiya, Konohamaru and Inari all commented on her being pretty. Lately Kishi stepped up his game on drawing her and she definitely looks like the prettiest girl in the manga now.


----------



## rac585 (Sep 25, 2014)

at this point naruto hasn't much of a choice other than to give up sakura and go for the 2nd option.


----------



## Harbour (Sep 25, 2014)

Like the guys who talk that NS died this chapter, but forget Sasuke directly said that he never had an interest in Sakura. It even doesnt linked with his redeeming. Even if he will become the good guy, he wont magically get an interest in Sakura. 
After Sasuke's words personally i think he really will be with Karin. Afterall, Hagoromo hinted that Sasuke will fall in the love, different from the love he had for mother. He doesnt say "fall in love for Sakura". It can be another girl, especially after what Sasuke said to Sakura. Even Hinata.
So this chapter SS also got one more nail.


----------



## Kael Hyun (Sep 25, 2014)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Naruto still loves Sakura? Since when?
> As far as I see it, Sakura and Naruto are just very good friends. Nothing more. Naruto is supporting SasuSaku for some reason, while Sakura doesn't even bother to think about NS.
> 
> Naruto's feelings are ambiguous at best, and more likely to lean towards Hinata (hand holding, eyes, etc), than towards Sakura. Naruto is the first one to admit that Sakura is in love with Sasuke



Were have you been dude Naruto admitted to Sai that he loved Sakura before Konoha was destroyed and when Minato and the other Hokage arrived Minato asked if Sakura was his girlfriend and Naruto said pritty much So yes Naruto does love Sakura. 

Also May I point out a word that many SS fans are missing "I *Loved*" We already knew Sakura had feelings for Sasuke but as of this chapter she obviously feels they have died.


----------



## Arya Stark (Sep 25, 2014)

Harbour said:


> Like the guys who talk that NS died this chapter, but forget Sasuke directly said that he never had an interest in Sakura. It even doesnt linked with his redeeming. *Even if he will become the good guy, he wont magically get an interest in Sakura.
> After Sasuke's words personally i think he really will be with Karin. Afterall, Hagoromo hinted that Sasuke will fall in the love, different from the love he had for mother. He doesnt say "fall in love for Sakura". It can be another girl, especially after what Sasuke said to Sakura. Even Hinata.*
> So this chapter SS also got one more nail.







Kael Hyun said:


> Also May I point out a word that many SS fans are missing "I *Loved*" We already knew Sakura had feelings for Sasuke but as of this chapter she obviously feels they have died.




It's confirmed, there is no past tense in her words.


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Naruto still loves Sakura? Since when?
> As far as I see it, Sakura and Naruto are just very good friends. Nothing more. Naruto is supporting SasuSaku for some reason, while Sakura doesn't even bother to think about NS.
> 
> Naruto's feelings are ambiguous at best, and more likely to lean towards Hinata (hand holding, eyes, etc), than towards Sakura. Naruto is the first one to admit that Sakura is in love with Sasuke


Sorry Ziltoid, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. 

Naruto expressed the desire to confess to Sakura when he keeps his promise and this chapter confirms that he still cares about the promise, meaning that Sai was right about Naruto loving her.

By narrative logic Naruto only loves Sakura and he still hasn't considered Hinata as a romantic option especially considering the fact that Naruto would say that Sakura is something like his girlfriend.

Logic dictates that NH still has the same issue of unrequited love as the other two but I don't really expect anyone from the NH fandom to see this.


----------



## Kusa (Sep 25, 2014)

Harbour said:


> Like the guys who talk that NS died this chapter, but forget Sasuke directly said that he never had an interest in Sakura. It even doesnt linked with his redeeming. Even if he will become the good guy, he wont magically get an interest in Sakura.
> After Sasuke's words personally i think he really will be with Karin.* Afterall, Hagoromo hinted that Sasuke will fall in the love,* different from the love he had for mother. He doesnt say "fall in love for Sakura". It can be another girl, especially after what Sasuke said to Sakura. Even Hinata.
> So this chapter SS also got one more nail.



He never did hint that. With different love than his mothers love, he could and most likely does refer to his friendship love towards team 7 and particularly towards Naruto, whom he trusts enough to believe, it's him who is going to change the hatred in Sasukes heart into  love. The love to his mother symbols his love to his clan, that made him fell into the darkness and the new love that is the love towards his teammates is going to rescue from his hatred.


----------



## Arya Stark (Sep 25, 2014)

> Naruto expressed the desire to confess to Sakura when he keeps his promise and this chapter confirms that he still cares about the promise, meaning that Sai was right about Naruto loving her.



*conveniently ignores 469 and onwards*

 



> By narrative logic Naruto only loves Sakura and he still hasn't considered Hinata as a romantic option especially considering the fact that Naruto would say that Sakura is something like his girlfriend.



*conveniently ignores the very last speech naruto gave to minato*



> Logic dictates that NH still has the same issue of unrequited love as the other two but I don't really expect anyone from the NH fandom to see this.



*conveniently ignores war arc*


----------



## Harbour (Sep 25, 2014)

> He never did hint that. With different love than his mothers love, he could and most likely does refer to his friendship love towards team 7 and particularly towards Naruto, whom he trusts enough to believe, it's him who is going to change the hatred in Sasukes heart into love. The love to his mother symbols his love to his clan, that made him fell into the darkness and the new love that is the love towards his teammates is going to rescue from his hatred.


Well, i talk about the line given in MP version.


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> *conveniently ignores 469 and onwards*


I'm not sure what you trying to point to me. 



> *conveniently ignores the very last speech naruto gave to minato*


You're grasping at straws.



> *conveniently ignores war arc*


He's simply not into her. Why can't you people just admit it already? That's why the girlfriend comment happened. Any notion of Naruto's feelings being "ambiguous" or he's moved on from Sakura doesn't make any logical sense anymore.


----------



## sakuranonamida (Sep 25, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> I guess people missed the point....
> 
> Sakura still loves him... it is Sasuke who doesn't have the will to love anyone but himself.
> Naruto will change that... Sasuke will love her like he will love other things in life...
> ...



Yeah what a great pairing it will be : requiring Naruto's intervention in order to make Sasuke finally cave in and love again.
Will he need to join them in bed as well so that Sasuke can accomplish the deed?
Seriously I don't care if people ship Naruhina but at this point if you still see Sasuke and Sakura getting together as a logical or positive thing, I don't even know what to tell you anymore.


----------



## AMtrack (Sep 25, 2014)

Problem with "pairings" is that shippers will see only what they want to see.  Nothing worth discussing could ever come from this.  The human brain is capable of creating grand delusions so strong that any/all contrary evidence is neatly rationalized to fit into its fantasy.  To this day, ppl still adamantly believe the earth is flat.  Pairing ships are a lot like the flat-earth  society.

Sasuke said pretty flatly,  "not interested. At all."

Yet there is still a delusion that he's simply not being true to his feelings.  He is so apathetic towards Sakura and Kakashi that "hate turns to love" can't possibly work for those two.  He doesn't hate them.  He gives no shits.  The only one who really stirs something in Sasuke is Naruto.  If hate turns to love, he'll be loving Naruto.  Just saying.


----------



## Hydro Spiral (Sep 25, 2014)

Am I the only one who finds Naruto's promise to Sakura to be completely dumb at this point.

Bringing Sasuke back home after all the horrible things he's said and done to Sakura. Especially this chapter. But its all good cuz he'll be "changed"! 

Any normal guy would've drawn a line somewhere. Seriously. Damn that nindo 



Harbour said:


> So this chapter SS also got one more nail.



More like the absolute last nail.


----------



## Norngpinky (Sep 25, 2014)

This chapter meant automatic NS 

You don't see SS. Fine, whatever. 

But this chapter meant Sakura will switch to romantically loving Naruto in the end. Great, LOL. 


Plot twist: Sakura goes on a date with Naruto. Sasuke gets jealous. It works!


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Hydro Spiral said:


> Am I the only one who finds Naruto's promise to Sakura to be completely dumb at this point.
> 
> Bringing Sasuke back home after all the horrible things he's said and done to Sakura. Especially this chapter. But its all good cuz he'll be "changed"!
> 
> ...



If nothing else, you'd think the line would be drawn and crossed after he had tried to kill her. Like at least with those shipping it, that would be the dealbreaker you know? 



Norngpinky said:


> This chapter meant automatic NS
> 
> You don't see SS. Fine, whatever.
> 
> ...



Defensive.


----------



## RockSauron (Sep 25, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> Naruto expressed the desire to confess to Sakura when he keeps his promise and this chapter confirms that he still cares about the promise, meaning that Sai was right about Naruto loving her.



"Naruto wants to keep his promise that he'll bring his ebst friend back he made to his other, female best friend! Thus, he must love her!"

WTF does that even mean?

I mean... you DO realize people can keep promises to people they don't love... right?


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

RockSauron said:


> "Naruto wants to keep his promise that he'll bring his ebst friend back he made to his other, female best friend! Thus, he must love her!"
> 
> WTF does that even mean?


...

Did you forget that the promise was attributed to romantic love for Sakura? I don't even know why you would ask me this question, when the manga itself states that the promise is about his romantic feelings.


----------



## AMtrack (Sep 25, 2014)

RockSauron said:


> "Naruto wants to keep his promise that he'll bring his ebst friend back he made to his other, female best friend! Thus, he must love her!"
> 
> WTF does that even mean?



Naruto said in like the first chapter that he likes Sakura.  Can't get any more explicit than that.  He also told Sai that he can't confess until he fulfills his promise.  

Its about as obvious as Sasuke saying, "im not interested at all".

Not that any of these things matter.  Because I will get a long ass post about planets, star charts, numerology, horoscopes, and divination; all of which will point to how something so explicitly stated can't be true.


----------



## RockSauron (Sep 25, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> ...
> 
> Did you forget that the promise was attributed to romantic love for Sakura? I don't even know why you would ask me this question, when the manga itself states that the promise is about his romantic feelings.



Yes, like, four hundred chapters ago. When it was canonized he liked her.

The fact that he hasn't forgotten his promise four hundred chapters later doesn't mean he still likes her. 

I mean, even if you promise someone you like something... you DO realize that you cans till keep that promise even if you don't like her... right?


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

RockSauron said:


> Yes, like, four hundred chapters ago. When it was canonized he liked her.
> 
> The fact that he hasn't forgotten his promise four hundred chapters later doesn't mean he still likes her.
> 
> I mean, even if you promise someone you like something... you DO realize that you cans till keep that promise even if you don't like her... right?


That's not logically feasible if he would say that Sakura is something like his girlfriend. You're somehow trying to squeeze in an interpretation that he doesn't necessarily like her when that doesn't make sense in the narrative.


----------



## Corvida (Sep 25, 2014)

RockSauron said:


> Yes, like, four hundred chapters ago. When it was canonized he liked her.
> 
> The fact that he hasn't forgotten his promise four hundred chapters later doesn't mean he still likes her.
> 
> I mean, even if you promise someone you like something... you DO realize that you cans till keep that promise even if you don't like her... right?



Exactly.

"Sensei, you shoulld know my ninja way by now.."

Naruto-never goes-back on his word. Ever-


Hows the platonic Sakura?s different level, Eli?


----------



## RockSauron (Sep 25, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> That's not logically feasible if he would say that Sakura is something like his girlfriend. You're somehow trying to squeeze in an interpretation that he doesn't necessarily like her when doesn't make sense in the narrative.



... Wut. So... your argument now is he likes her because he likes her? Mkay.

Also, you do realize you're the one who said he loves her because he's keeping a promise he made and all I said was that keeping a promise isn't actually proof he loves someone, right?


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

Corvida said:


> Exactly.
> 
> "Sensei, you shoulld know my ninja way by now.."
> 
> Naruto-nevery goes-back on his word. Ever-


So what was this rational that he doesn't really love her as much as Sai told her again? I'm ready to put an end to this thing.



RockSauron said:


> ... Wut. So... your argument now is he likes her because he likes her? Mkay
> 
> Also, you do realize you're the one who said he loves her because he's keeping a promise he made and all I said was that keeping a promise isn't actually proof he loves someone, right?


I'm saying that you can't logically reconcile a Naruto that wants to keep his promise to Sakura as someone that's not necessarily doing it out of romantic love, because of Sai's flashback (narrative logic). The only thing that is logically feasible is to argue the nature of his love for Sakura, which is what Corvida does.


----------



## Azula (Sep 25, 2014)

sakuranonamida said:


> Yeah what a great pairing it will be : requiring Naruto's intervention in order to make Sasuke finally cave in and love again.
> *Will he need to join them in bed as well so that Sasuke can accomplish the deed?*



Sasuke needs a reason to love and only Naruto can provide it


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

This is going to get uninteresting....

NaruSaku fans should not be raising their goblets in victory either. That pairing has a shitload of issues, and really, like NaruHina regards to Naruto seems like it would just be the silver medal or what Sakura just 'settles' on. I would like to see Sakura to get over Sasuke, that doesn't at all means it would do her character any good if she moved on to Naruto. A character her age really should be more independent minded, and have more respect for herself too. Which means not being defined by how she relates to her teammates, which going with either would result in; and not pining for someone that mistreats her as well, showing she finally has some respect for herself.


----------



## Corvida (Sep 25, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> So what was this rational that he doesn't really love her as much as Sai told her again? I'm ready to put an end to this thing.



That you are attributting to Naruto?s *nindo *far more romantic motivations than it really has.
Naruto never gives up on his word.Never.But you are muddling his intentions.

Sakura has poured her heart out for that  fagstard-again-and do you really think that after this bathetic scene and 5765765675675 confirmation of the Iron land failfession he will arrive with beaten Sarasasuke over his shoulder and straightly confess to Sakura?

And I ask you again-.how was that think about Sakura?s feelings being even less than in chapter 3?



QUOTE=Seto Kaiba;51818579





> ]This is going to get uninteresting....
> 
> NaruSaku fans should not be raising their goblets in victory either



Would like to see that. VIVE LE REBOUND!!!!!!!!


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

Corvida said:


> That you are attributting to Naruto?s *nindo *far more romantic motivations than it really has.
> Naruto never gives up on his word.Never.But you are muddling his intentions.
> 
> Sakura has poured her heart out for that  fagstard-again-and do you really think that after this bathetic scene and 5765765675675 confirmation of the Iron land failfession he will arrive with beaten Sarasasuke over his shoulder and straightly confess to Sakura?


Can you elaborate on this? There were several points you've made in the debate thread that were particularly noteworthy, and you still haven't brought them up. I think you know what I'm talking about. 



> And I ask you again-.how was that think about Sakura?s feelings being even less than in chapter 3?


Kakashi refers to her feelings in 675 in doubt and Sakura herself talks about her love in past tense MP translations. I have no idea what is even true at this point, I'm just waiting for the RAW of this scene.


----------



## AMtrack (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> This is going to get uninteresting....
> 
> NaruSaku fans should not be raising their goblets in victory either. That pairing has a shitload of issues, and really, like NaruHina regards to Naruto seems like it would just be the silver medal or what Sakura just 'settles' on. I would like to see Sakura to get over Sasuke, that doesn't at all means it would do her character any good if she moved on to Naruto. A character her age really should be more independent minded, and have more respect for herself too. Which means not being defined by how she relates to her teammates, which going with either would result in; and not pining for someone that mistreats her as well, showing she finally has some respect for herself.



Now Now Seto...rebounds are a mainstay of teenage love angst 

Dat rebound 

In all honesty I don't anticipate Kishi doing anything conclusive.  This doesn't strike me as a manga that necessitates a 'married with kids' kind of ending.  Naruto will nut up and confess, Sakura will do w/e the hell Sakura does, and life will go on.


----------



## Kusa (Sep 25, 2014)

I don't want Sakura to move on to Naruto either. Not after all the things happened. Sakura developing romantic feelings for Naruto would be almost as forced as Sasuke developing feelings for her.You can't start to like someone who never interested you romantically out of nowhere. Naruto would look like the second choice and that would make them look like a really pathetic pairing.

I would have supported the idea, way earlier. The manga is going to end very soon, it's too late for that.Sakura being in love with Sasuke until the last 10 chapters or even less would make her sudden 'love' for Naruto appear so cheap.

The best scenario would if Sakura moves on from Sasuke and does not get involved in any romance, until she really falls in love with another man, who is not going to be her second choice.


----------



## Corvida (Sep 25, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> Can you elaborate on this? There were several points you've made in the debate thread that were particularly noteworthy, and you still haven't brought them up. I think you know what I'm talking about.



There?s nothing to elaborate on. You know Naruto?s  nindo-if he promises something , he wont go back  on his Word, ever. Failing Sakura  yet again,  seeing how Sasuke?s fall affects her really bugs him much more than confessing romantically to her.That?s why I always asked you-do you think Naruto woudnt have promised Sakura, romantic feelings or not, to bring Sasuke back?

And now I question you again-after her Ironland forced confession, after her display of this chapter, do-you-seriosly-think-that Naruto is only thinking in bringing Sasuke back "home"......to confess himself to this girl?



> Kakashi refers to her feelings in 675 in doubt and Sakura herself talks about her love in past tense MP translations. I have no idea what is even true at this point, I'm just waiting for the RAW of this scene.



Sasuke never doubted Sakura?s feelings, look how well he explains her this chapter-how many times I told you he was the only one noticing her part one agony?

As for Sakura, you cannot get more present than this cahpter, sorry Eli.


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

Corvida said:


> There?s nothing to elaborate on. You know Naruto?s  nindo-if he promises something , he wont go back  on his Word, ever. Failing Sakura  yet again,  seeing how Sasuke?s fall affects her really bugs him much more than confessing romantically to her.That?s why I always asked you-do you think Naruto woudnt have promised Sakura, romantic feelings or not, to bring Sasuke back?
> 
> And now I question you again-after her Ironland forced confession, after her display of this chapter, do-you-seriosly-think-that Naruto is only thinking in bringing Sasuke back "home"......to confess himself to this girl?


The only reason why he made such a promise in the first place, as something that he won't go back on his word for, is because of his romantic feelings. Confessing to her may not be a top priority in his mind, but he was truly burdened by the promise simply just for that desire. Have you ever suspected that he really hopes to be the rebound, or that he feels like he should confess to her to simply to move on with his life? 

If Sakura can confess to Sasuke *yet again* fully knowing that he doesn't like her, I don't see why the hell Naruto shouldn't eventually confess to her.



> Kakashi never doubted Sakura?s feelings, look how well he explains her this chapter-how many times I told you he was the only one noticing her part one agony?
> 
> As for Sakura, you cannot get more present than this cahpter, sorry Eli.


I don't really feel like debating about this at this time.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

This is why I like Tenten and Temari better...wouldn't see them groveling over this shit.


----------



## Corvida (Sep 25, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> The only reason why he made such a promise in the first place, as something that he won't go back on his word for, is because of his romantic feelings



 NO!!!!!
  What the hell, Eli?
He would have promised to bring Sasuke back even if he didnt like Sakura romantically., specially  after seeing what he had seen in the hospital. What kind of a team mate do you take him for? She was despairing, Shikamaru didnt allow her to join the search party and do you think Naruto woudnt have had the heart not to promise her, him being Naruto?






> . Confessing to her may not be a top priority in his mind, but he was truly burdened by the promise simply just for that desire. Have you ever suspected that he really hopes to be the rebound, or that he feels like he should confess to her to simply to move on with his life?



Hon, he WILL be the rebound, if there is a manga  narsak.
. That _was_ it.
And if you wonder why the promise burdened him....take a look at his face this chapter and you?ll know.



> If Sakura can confess to Sasuke *yet again* fully knowing that he doesn't like her, I don't see why the hell Naruto shouldn't eventually confess to her.


 

Have you ever noticed the kind of situation in which Kishi made his girls, both Hinata and Sakura confess-I mean *truly* confess-and that?s why the returning detail was a minor point.

The amazing thing with Sakura is that he-has-.made her repeat confession and situation ...twice and -verbatim.

Naruto "eventually" confessing after all this bathos plus after knowing she forced herself to confess romantic love to him would be the ultimate vulturing. Lets hope, for entertainment value, that Sakura herself confess to him to make twice each. boy



> I don't really feel like debating about this at this time.



Come on, Eli, read the chapter and what the girl is saying.


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

Corvida said:


> NO!!!!!
> What the hell, Eli?
> He would have promised to bring Sasuke back even if he didnt like Sakura romantically., specially  after seeing what he had seen in the hospital. What kind of a team mate do you take him for? She was despairing, Shikamaru didnt allow her to join the search party and do you think Naruto woudnt have had the heart not to promise her, him being Naruto?


Of course he would do that, but he was adding his romantic feelings to the equation for some reason... with him equating his pain of unrequited love with her own. I've talked to you about this and I don't see how you're getting around this with this argument. 



> Hon, he WILL be the rebound, if there is a manga  narsak.
> . That _was_ it.
> And if you wonder why the promise brudened him....take a look at his face this chapter and you?ll know.


"How can I? When i can't even keep my promises" 




> Have you ever noticed the kind of situation in which Kishi made his girls, both Hinata and Sakura confess-I mean *truly* confess-and that?s why the returning detail was a minor point.
> 
> The amazing thing with Sakura is that he-has-.made her repeat confession and situation ...twice and -verbatim.
> 
> Naruto "eventually" confessing after all this bathos plus after knowing she forced herself to confess romantic love to him would be the ultimate vulturing. Ltes hop, for entertainment value, that Sakura herself confess to him to make twice each.


The ultimate vulturing? Remember how he said that Sakura was something like his girlfriend? You know, I don't see why he wouldn't take such an opportunity especially after he dropped that g-bomb. He's simply a vulture, and that's that. Just a very considerate one.


----------



## Corvida (Sep 25, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> Of course he would do that, but he was adding his romantic feelings to the equation for some reason... with him equating his pain of unrequited love with her own. I've talked to you about this and I don't see how you're getting around this with this argument.



Because,as I told you, that romantic feeling is only an infinitesimal part of* Naruto?s nindo*- That the pain he could have felt while discovering who Sakura loved could have the former attention seeking annoying but always generous Naruto empathize better with Sakura?s own misery ....doesnt authomatically mean that he either hadnt made the solemtn promise to her even if wasnt the case-Sasuke being suddently  like a brother to him and all-or, specially, that his failing   a solemn promise,  and failing both Sakura and Sasuke burdened him to no end-why do you think he collapsed in Iron land?



> "How can I? When i can't even keep my promises"



:amazed

Uh oh-so he isnt a love martyr then?, so he only did the POAL to score!  Make your mind, narsak, martyr or vulture?And Eedit, Eli-dodnt you find it interesting that Naruto only brings back the promise when he witness Sakura?s confessing to Sasuke again?



> The ultimate vulturing? Remember how he said that Sakura was something like his girlfriend? You know, I don't see why he wouldn't take such an opportunity especially after he dropped that g-bomb. He's simply a vulture, and that's that. Just a very considerate one.



And do you finally got after latest chapters that everybody agreed he was joking? Do you think he would have the balls to tell that to zombie dad _this chapter?_, if he didnt sound indecisive enough when they say farewell forever?


----------



## Rashman (Sep 25, 2014)

Oh my, such a funny chapter....

Still surprises me how people are shocked about Sakura's feelings..


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Rashman said:


> Oh my, such a funny chapter....
> 
> Still surprises me how people are shocked about Sakura's feelings..



Shocked isn't the right word. Everyone knew about them already, it's just a whole new level of disgust.


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

Corvida said:


> Because,as I told you, that romantic feeling is only an infinitesimal part of* Naruto?s nindo*- That the pain he could have felt while discovering who Sakura loved could have the former attention seeking annoying but always generous Naruto empathize better with Sakura?s own misery ....doesnt authomatically mean that he either hadnt made the solemtn promise to her even if wasnt the case-Sasuke being suddently  like a brother to him and all-or, specially, that his failing   a solemn promise,  and failing both Sakura and Sasuke burdened him to no end-why do you think he collapsed in Iron land?


What in the world? Somehow you're trying to put the basis of his romantic feelings into his own nindo, which is totally weird. You're forgetting any sort of characterization of his feelings for Sakura before that promise, like his incessant date requests or his hopeful wishes of maybe getting her to like him.

Naruto collapsed because his Team was falling apart, not because his romantic feelings are insignificant.



> Uh oh-so he isnt a love martyr then?, so he only did the POAL to score!  Make your mind, narsak, martyr or vulture?And Eedit, Eli-dodnt you find it interesting that Naruto only brings back the promise when he witness Sakura?s confessing to Sasuke again?


Why haven't you realized that he's actually both? He asks her on date requests some time at the start of Part 2, and then for some reason expresses his form of martyrdom after that time. 

"How can I? When I can't even keep my promises."

It's just this: He feels worthy to ask her on date requests (in which he most likely doesn't even expect to score, really) but not confessing her feelings for her. Why do you think Sakura herself doesn't take his feelings all that seriously until Sai had to tell her just how much he loves her? He's not a total martyr though, I can give you that. 



> And do you finally got after latest chapters that everybody agreed he was joking? Do you think he would have the balls to tell that to zombie dad _this chapter?_, if he didnt sound indecisive enough when they say farewell forever?


But he wasn't even saying that she's *really* his girlfriend when he made that comment. His answer was "sorta, something like that". It doesn't really sound like he must have been joking there to me.


----------



## Rashman (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Shocked isn't the right word. *Everyone* knew about them already, it's just a whole new level of disgust.



No, this only applies to few people like you..


You would be surprised that there are those that still pretended that sakura no longer loved sasuke even after all the obvious hints.


I mean, no ones says they have to like it but it is pointless to deny the obvious.


----------



## Sunspear7 (Sep 25, 2014)

Lol the shipping drama is intense here. 

Lessons to take from this chapter: It's okay to stab people through the chest as long as it's genjutsu guys, they love you, they'll forget this after you kiss and make up... just like previous murder attempts are forgotten... because they tried to kill you too and you were in a very dark place emotionally...

Such healthy relationships, you know the kind that allows you to grow personally and where there is this strong trust between you and your partner. Yup.

I'm pretty sure NH and SS will become canon in the end but that doesn't stop me from thinking Kishi has seriously one messed up concept of romance in his head.


----------



## Tayimus (Sep 25, 2014)

As much of a NaruSaku Shipper as I am, I'm seriously considering dropping this pairing.  Simply because I don't particularly like the characters involved, I just like the pairing.  And in my eyes, Sakura's character has failed so much during this arc--no, the whole manga---that I just outright hate her sometimes (or rather hate Kishi).

I think I'm gonna start supporting NaruSasu.  I'm not even joking.  NaruSasu at times seems like the most logical pairing (even though they're all fucking illogical) and it was the only ship that I got undertones from in this chapter.


----------



## CuteJuubi (Sep 25, 2014)

SasuSaku shippers sail stronger still:


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Lucky7 (Sep 25, 2014)

> Hon, he WILL be the rebound, if there is a manga narsak.


But isn't Hinata Naruto's rebound? Afterall, he was in love with Sakura first. Since he can't have her, he'll accept Hinata's feelings as the second option? Oh but no that's different right? Naruto wouldn't be on the rebound he would truly be in love with Hinata and fall compltetly out of love with Sakura and this is completely okay. Yet, its inconceivable and some hated concept that Sakura would fall for Naruto and get over Sasuke, and its unbelievable that she would be in a relationship with him because she loves him and not because she can't have Sasuke? 



> Naruto "eventually" confessing after all this bathos plus after knowing she forced herself to confess romantic love to him would be the ultimate vulturing. Lets hope, for entertainment value, that Sakura herself confess to him to make twice each. boy


What? So let me get this straight, Naruto isn't allowed to confess his feeling to Sakura in the event he is succesful in bringing Sasuke back? So, was Hinata' confession to Naruto "vulturing" because she is aware that he loves Sakura yet somehow she was taking advantage of the fact that he isn't with her to swoop in and steal him? Bruh, just say you don't like Narusaku and that's why you don't want it to happen. All these accusations are so riddled with bias and hypocrisy. Not to mention a borderline insulting way of thinking about people and relationships.


> Uh oh-so he isnt a love martyr then?, so he only did the POAL to score! Make your mind, narsak, martyr or vulture?And Eedit, Eli-dodnt you find it interesting that Naruto only brings back the promise when he witness Sakura?s confessing to Sasuke again?


:amazed
So, let me see if I understand you correctly. Naruto promising to bring Sasuke back and his reasoning that he doesn't feel worthy of her love unless he can hold true to his promises, is, his attempt at impressing her so she can forget about Sasuke and love him? What you are saying is this was not a promise made out of affection, selflessness, and comfort, but self-gain? Woah. But I bet you vouch for why all the negative shit that actually hurt Sakura done by Sasuke is worthy of being looked over . 

Also, what does him bringing up the POAL specifically have to do with anything? He has said multiple times that they will bring Sasuke back together. He brought it up when Sai asked him why he doesn't tell Sakura he loves her, proving it is still something he is aware of and thinks about. I don't understand where you're going with this? What significance does this have to you?


> And do you finally got after latest chapters that everybody agreed he was joking? Do you think he would have the balls to tell that to zombie dad this chapter?, if he didnt sound indecisive enough when they say farewell forever?


Once again y'all arguments just change with the times huh ?

So it was insulting  for Naruto to say that Sakura is his girlfriend (which, I think everyone is forgetting, he didn't say. It was "something like that" not yes), yet when he' s talking to his father for the last time telling him what to relay to his mother about how he's done so far and, in the interest of wanting to be completely honest as he had been with everything else he said, doesn't say Sakura is his girlfriend again because, frankly, she is not? Naruto answered Minato's girlfriend comment based on how he felt. Naruto's answer of "Something like that" is indicative of his continued romantic interest in her. 

And what's your opposing argument anyway? In regards to the "find a girl like me" he said that "things hadn't gone exactly the way you said" confirming that he hadn't found a girl yet. He isn't considering either girl his girlfriend, and it indicates he doesn't see Hinata that way. Afterall, what is his hesitation? Its not like with Sakura where she still has feelings for someone else and her love for him is cloudy. He knows that Hinata is in love with him, to say he had found a girl wouldn't be a lie because he has to realize that all he would have to is ask for Hinata to be his girlfriend. Come to think of it, why do you think Naruto hasn't asked ?

Jesus Christ, I don't even like Narusaku. In all honesty, I like Naruhina better (though I don't really care for it either). And because I dislike Narusaku I can say that there are valid reasons and arguments for the pairing. But none of what you listed is. Not that I'm surprised, trying to argue agaisnt another pairing with Sasusaku is gonna give way to faulty reasoning because there is absolutely nothing one can say about another pairing that doesn't double back negatively for SS


----------



## Corvida (Sep 25, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> What in the world? Somehow you're trying to put the basis of his romantic feelings into his own nindo, which is totally weird. You're forgetting any sort of characterization of his feelings for Sakura before that promise, like his incessant date requests or his hopeful wishes of maybe getting her to like him.



 Ah ah-you are the one trying to say the basis of his never give up nindo are his romantic feelins, which is as mesed up as the typical narsakian  "proof"   of saying-well, Naruto must get the girl becasue...becasue he never gives up!
Sakura is not and  never was a goal-he didnt even made the promise to get Sakura no matter what.And his incessant date request toned down as son as he doscovered Sakura loved Sasuke.



> Naruto collapsed because his Team was falling apart, not because his romantic feelings are insignificant.



Naruto collapsed becasuse  his family collapsing was, at that point, then thousand times more important than his ro,mantic feelings.



> Why haven't you realized that he's actually both? He asks her on date requests some time at the start of Part 2, and then for some reason expresses his form of martyrdom after that time.



He cant.One is a martyr or a vulture. He either takes Sakura?s feelings serisously-and he does, LOOK AT HIS FACE THIS CHAPTER-or is not love martyr at all, only biding his time.for the pear to be ripe.

For some reasons?  For Kishi?s necessity to give Sakura PIS enough to perpetrate her atrocious attempt of compensation-fession.remember that the assumed martyrdom comes within a dated flashback through another char?cter with his own agenda.



> "How can I? When I can't even keep my promises."
> 
> It's just this: He feels worthy to ask her on date requests (in which he most likely doesn't even expect to score, really) but not confessing her feelings for her. Why do you think Sakura herself doesn't take his feelings all that seriously until Sai had to tell her just how much he loves her? He's not a total martyr though, I can give you that.



The inconsistency of Naruto?s anorexic  romantic attemps  are the best proof he?s not a kind of martyr at all.Look how twisted sounds telling "he feels worthy to make date requests , but not to confess" the poor dear. Half assed date requests show oddly  vulturish if taken seriously or of something out of habit.




> But he wasn't even saying that she's *really* his girlfriend when he made that comment. His answer was "sorta, something like that". It doesn't really sound like he must have been joking there to me.



To you. Pretty much the rest of the universal world have already agreed he was joking then , specially after seeing how he really behaved when  the real serious scene with dad came.


----------



## the real anti christ (Sep 25, 2014)

*Did Sasuke hesitate?*

I hate to add oil to the pairing fire but I was confused by the bottom left panel on this page.

What was the sfx trying to indicate?


----------



## Tayimus (Sep 25, 2014)

CuteJuubi said:


> SasuSaku shippers sail stronger still:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



I don't fucking believe what I just saw...


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

CuteJuubi said:


> SasuSaku shippers sail stronger still:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



Batshit insane.


----------



## son_michael (Sep 25, 2014)

As a long time Naru saku fan(since the promise of a life time) I am sickened by Sakura's character and quite frankly...no matter how much sense and build up I saw into the Naru Saku relationship...I can no longer support this pairing. 

I could STILL argue in favor of NS and honestly Kishi can go with any pairing he damn well pleases at this point.. *BUT I HOPE* that Naruto ends up with Hinata because he deserves a woman who loves him and Sakura deserves a psychopath like Sasuke or to just be alone for the rest of her life.

I have always argued that Naruto will get what he wants...and you know what? It looks like he just wants her to be happy, he wants her to be with Sasuke after he saves him. Naruto needs to do what sakura can't and that's to fall in love with a better person. At this point even if Naru Saku happens, kishi has killed it for me.

SO that's it..I'm done! Any pairing could happen right now but I only care about Naruto's happiness and I hope he can learn to be happy with Hinata. *I am no longer a Naru Saku fan * Fuck kishimotto and his shit pairings.


----------



## Kusa (Sep 25, 2014)

CuteJuubi said:


> SasuSaku shippers sail stronger still:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



They are so fucking stupid. Holy shit


----------



## Hitou Nami (Sep 25, 2014)

i think he did


----------



## Revolution (Sep 25, 2014)

shudder, tremble, hesitation

yes, the SS train is likely going to win just like Kurama who just wanted his freedom is now okay with being a SLAVE.  Sasuke is destined to be a SLAVE, maybe or maybe not...


----------



## Marsala (Sep 25, 2014)

Norngpinky said:


> This chapter meant automatic NS
> 
> You don't see SS. Fine, whatever.
> 
> ...



Oh, Sasuke would be jealous all right.

Of Sakura.


----------



## Selva (Sep 25, 2014)

CuteJuubi said:


> SasuSaku shippers sail stronger still:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __




I'm honestly baffled right now. WHAT IS THIS SHIT THAT I'M READING?


----------



## Corvida (Sep 25, 2014)

Lucky7 said:


> But isn't Hinata Naruto's rebound?[



 If Naruto confess dramatically to Sakura next chapter, yes, by all means.



> Afterall, he was in love with Sakura first. Since he can't have her, he'll accept Hinata's feelings as the second option? Oh but no that's different right? Naruto wouldn't be on the rebound he would truly be in love with Hinata and fall compltetly out of love with Sakura and this is completely okay. Yet, its inconceivable and some hated concept that Sakura would fall for Naruto and get over Sasuke, and its unbelievable that she would be in a relationship with him because she loves him and not because she can't have Sasuke?
> [



 Well, she has tried. She has tried really hard.



> What? So let me get this straight, Naruto isn't allowed to confess his feeling to Sakura in the event he is succesful in bringing Sasuke back?



What for?




> So, was Hinata' confession to Naruto "vulturing" because she is aware that he loves Sakura yet somehow she was taking advantage of the fact that he isn't with her to swoop in and steal him?



Dont forget he was tied or worse, punctured, and he coudnt escape!  her !!!!!

Nope, churri, as it wasnt premeditated and event wasnt expecting to survive the ordeal.  As a matter of fact, only confessed when asked. why.



> Bruh, just say you don't like Narusaku and that's why you don't want it to happen. All these accusations are so riddled with bias and hypocrisy. Not to mention a borderline insulting way of thinking about people and relationships.



I hate  NaruSaku-I coudnt care less that it happens-is as disgraced as it can be and much more than it thinks it is.



> :amazed
> So, let me see if I understand you correctly. Naruto promising to bring Sasuke back and his reasoning that he doesn't feel worthy of her love unless he can hold true to his promises, is, his attempt at impressing her so she can forget about Sasuke and love him? What you are saying is this was not a promise made out of affection, selflessness, and comfort, but self-gain? Woah. But I bet you vouch for why all the negative shit that actually hurt Sakura done by Sasuke is worthy of being looked over .



I prefectly know that the promise was made out of affection, selfeness and comfort. But alll that affection and selfelssness go to shit if  Naruto, knowing what he knows and seeing what he has seen this chapter, drps Sasupe like a box of bon bons and proceeds to confess.

With the agravvating notion that he already knows Sakura has already forced herself to confess romantic love to him like 4 weeks before manga time
So spare me your moral outrage.


> Also, what does him bringing up the POAL specifically have to do with anything? He has said multiple times that they will bring Sasuke back together. He brought it up when Sai asked him why he doesn't tell Sakura he loves her, proving it is still something he is aware of and thinks about. I don't understand where you're going with this? What significance does this have to you?



Understanding Naruto?s nindo.



> Once again y'all arguments just change with the times huh ?
> [



No-it was always seen as a bluff.Go figure.



> So it was insulting  for Naruto to say that Sakura is his girlfriend



A little tasteless.


> (which, I think everyone is forgetting, he didn't say. It was "something like that" not yes), yet when he' s talking to his father for the last time telling him what to relay to his mother about how he's done so far and, in the interest of wanting to be completely honest as he had been with everything else he said, doesn't say Sakura is his girlfriend again because, frankly, she is not?



That?s how he should have started in 631.Being honest




> Naruto answered Minato's girlfriend comment based on how he felt. Naruto's answer of "Something like that" is indicative of his continued romantic interest in her.


And a bluff.




> And what's your opposing argument anyway? In regards to the "find a girl like me" he said that "things hadn't gone exactly the way you said" confirming that he hadn't found a girl yet. He isn't considering either girl his girlfriend, and it indicates he doesn't see Hinata that way. Afterall, what is his hesitation? Its not like with Sakura where she still has feelings for someone else and her love for him is cloudy. He knows that Hinata is in love with him, to say he had found a girl wouldn't be a lie because he has to realize that all he would have to is ask for Hinata to be his girlfriend. Come to think of it, why do you think Naruto hasn't asked ?
> [


Becasue, as every one and their moms must have already told you by now-Naruto is not in a relationship with any girl and for a change is being completely honest with zombie dad. Simple as that. Do you know how very little time has passed in manga time even since he received two consecutive love confessions? And why is he so evasive-I?m only 17. dodnt know about women.....



> Jesus Christ, I don't even like Narusaku. In all honesty, I like Naruhina better (though I don't really care for it either)
> [



Lie.




> . And because I dislike Narusaku I can say that there are valid reasons and arguments for the pairing. But none of what you listed is. Not that I'm surprised, trying to argue agaisnt another pairing with Sasusaku is gonna give way to faulty reasoning because there is absolutely nothing one can say about another pairing that doesn't double back negatively for SS


[/QUOTE]
   Bravo.But i havent even started to speak about Sasusaku.


----------



## Chaelius (Sep 25, 2014)

the real anti christ said:


> I hate to add oil to the pairing fire but I was confused by the bottom left panel on this page.
> 
> What was the sfx trying to indicate?



I didn't notice that, looks like that's the point Sakura's words start to get under his skin.


----------



## Hydro Spiral (Sep 25, 2014)

CuteJuubi said:


> SasuSaku shippers sail stronger still:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


----------



## Young Lord Minato (Sep 25, 2014)

Selva said:


> I'm honestly baffled right now. WHAT IS THIS SHIT THAT I'M READING?


Hardcore shippers are the ones who deny reality the most


----------



## Pocalypse (Sep 25, 2014)

CuteJuubi said:


> SasuSaku shippers sail stronger still:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



That is just sickening. Wow, that mimimia or whatever sounds like a complete dipshit. Why do SasuSaku fans always say it's just "empty words"? It's so stupid, what the hell are they reading when these chapters come out? Are they replacing what Sasuke and Sakura say with their own fairytale made up dialogue or something? 

If Sasuke confessed he loved her I bet that wouldn't be empty words. The fans would portrait that shit up in their bedroom wall


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

Corvida said:


> Ah ah-you are the one trying to say the basis of his never give up nindo are his romantic feelins, which is as mesed up as the typical narsakian  "proof"   of saying-well, Naruto must get the girl becasue...becasue he never gives up!
> Sakura is not and  never was a goal-he didnt even made the promise to get Sakura no matter what.And his incessant date request toned down as son as he doscovered Sakura loved Sasuke.


I never said that his nindo was about getting the girl because he never gives up, it's something he added in his promise to comfort her. The promise is still all about his romantic feelings, but he isn't using it to score. 

They toned down? If so, why did he keep on with his incessant date requests when he came back from his training with Jiraiya? 


> Naruto collapsed becasuse  his family collapsing was, at that point, then thousand times more important than his ro,mantic feelings.


Yes, at that point. It doesn't mean he doesn't really love Sakura. 



> He cant.One is a martyr or a vulture. He either takes Sakura?s feelings serisously-and he does, LOOK AT HIS FACE THIS CHAPTER-or is not love martyr at all, only biding his time.for the pear to be ripe.


He can take Sakura's feelings for Sasuke seriously, but still be a "vulture" if he also considers that she might have feelings for him. That's why he said that she's "sorta, something like" his girlfriend.  

Or maybe he would confess without considering that she might reciprocate, because he isn't really using the PoaL to score at all. Therefore, he wouldn't be a vulture, but would just want to move on with his life. 



> For some reasons?  For Kishi?s necessity to give Sakura PIS enough to perpetrate her atrocious attempt of compensation-fession.remember that the assumed martyrdom comes within a dated flashback through another char?cter with his own agenda.


Yeah, a character who said that "even he can tell" that he really loves her. Also a character that is aware of these "vulturing" date requests.



> The inconsistency of Naruto?s anorexic  romantic attemps  are the best proof he?s not a kind of martyr at all.Look how twisted sounds telling "he feels worthy to make date requests , but not to confess" the poor dear. Half assed date requests show oddly  vulturish if taken seriously or of something out of habit.


Or maybe I should just say that the date requests shouldn't tie into any conceivable notion of his martyrdom. 



> To you. Pretty much the rest of the universal world have already agreed he was joking then , specially after seeing how he really behaved when  the real serious scene with dad came.


He behaved that way because he knows his relationship with Sakura is complicated.


----------



## Lucky7 (Sep 25, 2014)

> If Naruto confess dramatically to Sakura next chapter, yes, by all means.


Do you understand what a rebound is? A rebound is someone who, after being more or less rejected from the person you loved, you get with. "On that "the only way to get over one man is to get a new one" type deal. Naruto would not need to confess dramatically to catch Hinata on the rebound, accroding to your logic. Naruto loved Sakura but can't have her becasue of Sasusaku, so Hinata is the next best thing just and this is a repugnant idea because Naruto could never _truly_ love Hinata because she wasn't his object of affection for so long the way Sakura could never truly love Naruto if she got in a relationship with him after loving Sasuke.

 Why is it that a lot of people from your ships equate the seriousness of someone's love to how many dramatic, out of place oubursts and romantic confessions they make ?


> Well, she has tried. She has tried really hard.


No she hasn't. Sakura has never made a concoius effort to forget about her feelings for him. She seems to be stubbonrly holding on to them, if anything. She knows loving Sasuke hurts, but until she has never expressed a desire to not want to love him. 


> Understanding Naruto?s nindo.


Okay...so what does Naruto's nindo have to do with the POAL? Isn't his nindo "I don't go back on my word"? So, in this chapter he says something along the lines of him promising to bring Sasuke back to Sakura? So, isn't he holding true to his nindo with the POAL still? And what does understanding Naruto's nindo have to do with him love life?


> What for?


What do you mean what for? If he loves her he isn't allowed to confess? But Sakura is allowed to confess to Sasuke because she loves him? And Hinata is allowed to confess to Naruto because she loves him? Why is Naruto the only one who isn't allowed to act on his feelings and, when he does, gets bashed for it ?


> I prefectly know that the promise was made out of affection, selfeness and comfort. But alll that affection and selfelssness go to shit if Naruto, knowing what he knows and seeing what he has seen this chapter, drps Sasupe like a box of bon bons and proceeds to confess.


Oh, so you mean him confessing right now :amazed? Well, that's still a very faulty notion. See, not everyone is like Sakura and has unsolicited outbusrs of romantic confessions in the midst of more serious shit going on so no, of course Naruto isn't gonna try to woo her now. 


> With the agravvating notion that he already knows Sakura has already forced herself to confess romantic love to him like 4 weeks before manga time
> So spare me your moral outrage.


What do you mean? What does that have to do with anything? If by my moral outrage you mean me calling out Sasuke but not Sakura lying to Naruto then I agree. It was a shitty thing to do. 


> And a bluff.


What do you mean a bluff? So are you saying Naruto said Sakura was his girlfriend to Minato because...what...he didn't want to look like he didn't have a girlfriend? Or something else? Or are you just using bluff in the place of lie? I don't really get what you're trying to say here .


> Lie.


Lie? Why do you think I'm lying ? You may think I'm lying about this too, but there are actually things I like about Naruhina. But I also ain't really in the business of making terrible, biased, hypocritical arguments for it. 


> Becasue, as every one and their moms must have already told you by now-Naruto is not in a relationship with any girl and for a change is being completely honest with zombie dad. Simple as that. Do you know how very little time has passed in manga time even since he received two consecutive love confessions? And why is he so evasive-I?m only 17. dodnt know about women.....


Then doesn't that explain why Naruto is so evasive about confessing to Sakura? Or do you just desire to, once again, apply certain things to Naruhina but not Narusaku?

And also, we can go back even farther than 631 with Naruto's evasiveness regarding Hinata's feelings for him. For instance, why hasn't Naruto' answered Hinata's confession?


----------



## Lelouch71 (Sep 25, 2014)

son_michael said:


> As a long time Naru saku fan(since the promise of a life time) I am sickened by Sakura's character and quite frankly...no matter how much sense and build up I saw into the Naru Saku relationship...I can no longer support this pairing.
> 
> I could STILL argue in favor of NS and honestly Kishi can go with any pairing he damn well pleases at this point.. *BUT I HOPE* that Naruto ends up with Hinata because he deserves a woman who loves him and Sakura deserves a psychopath like Sasuke or to just be alone for the rest of her life.
> 
> ...


As far as I'm concern all 3 big pairings are shit. No matter who end up with who the pairing will still be terrible. That is why I'm rooting for Naruto and Sasuke hook up with someone new. Both Hinata and Sakura are both pathetic.


----------



## Chrollo Lucilfer (Sep 25, 2014)

CuteJuubi said:


> SasuSaku shippers sail stronger still:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


[Img="http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/lol_idi_amin.gif"]http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/lol_idi_amin.gif[/img]
The amount of fucks i give about pairings is 0, but that just made me laugh and facepalm at the same damn time.


----------



## Skull007 (Sep 25, 2014)

I only ship hashixmada

Every other pairing attempt is just hilarious


----------



## son_michael (Sep 25, 2014)

Lelouch71 said:


> As far as I'm concern all 3 big pairings are shit. No matter who end up with who the pairing will still be terrible. That is why I'm rooting for Naruto and Sasuke hook up with someone new. Both Hinata and Sakura are both pathetic.



While it's true that Hinata has been pathetic on more than 1 occasion...she has unconditional love for Naruto and if he does not end up with Sakura then he should end up with her, not to mention she's blossomed into quite the woman. She's got a hell of a lot more to offer than Sakura does.

anyway in the end ShikaXTemari will be the best real and healthy pairing of the entire new generation.


----------



## Kurokocchi (Sep 25, 2014)

None of team 7 will get together,
It's gonna be NaruHina and SasuKarin of course


----------



## Plague (Sep 25, 2014)

In all honesty, I still think SasuSaku will be canon. 

He'll fill the empty family love void with Sakura's. 

Naruto's got Hinata.


----------



## Rosi (Sep 25, 2014)

CuteJuubi said:


> SasuSaku shippers sail stronger still:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



Damn, I feel second-hand embarrassment


----------



## Raptor (Sep 25, 2014)

The joker was right on this one, sometimes watching the world burn is fun.


----------



## Sage (Sep 25, 2014)

son_michael said:


> As a long time Naru saku fan(since the promise of a life time) I am sickened by Sakura's character and quite frankly...no matter how much sense and build up I saw into the Naru Saku relationship...I can no longer support this pairing.
> 
> I could STILL argue in favor of NS and honestly Kishi can go with any pairing he damn well pleases at this point.. *BUT I HOPE* that Naruto ends up with Hinata because he deserves a woman who loves him and Sakura deserves a psychopath like Sasuke or to just be alone for the rest of her life.
> 
> ...



Only if there was a sensible Sakura/SS fan out there who would also come out and say the same to acknowledge how awful SS has become with the way Sasuke has treated Sakura throughout the years and realize that Sakura deserves better, someone who actually treats her with respect and cares for her...

wish one of them would acknowledge she needs to have some self-respect, move on and admit that even if SS does happen, they will be forever disappointed in how it came about with the disgrace of her character... but sadly that will never happen, these Sakura fans are entertained by watching her being tortured and ridiculed by Sasuke at her expense. Just more excuses to defend Sasuke over and over... 

Yes, Naruto does deserve better, Sakura is a failure of a character in all regard.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 25, 2014)

Sage said:


> Only if there was a sensible Sakura/SS fan out there who would also come out and say the same to acknowledge how awful SS has become with the way Sasuke has treated Sakura throughout the years and realize that Sakura deserves better, someone who actually treats her with respect and cares for her...
> 
> wish one of them would acknowledge she needs to have some self-respect, move on and acknowledge that even if SS does happen, they will be disappointed in how it came about with the disgrace of her character... but sadly that will never happen, these Sakura fans are entertained by watching her being tortured and ridiculed by Sasuke at her expense. Just more excuses to defend Sasuke over and over...



Sensible?  son-michael and a bunch of narusaku fans are simply throwing the towel f-fucking f-finally. if they were so worried about how the characters looked, they would have dropped the pairing in the fake confession. this isn't any "worse" from back then.

why would SS fans admit defeat? they haven't lost, in fact most of our claims got proved this chapter and even a few got to be hinted.

Enjoying the salty tears everywhere, otherwise I'd post more.


----------



## Sage (Sep 25, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Sensible?  son-michael and a bunch of narusaku fans are simply throwing the towel f-fucking f-finally. if they were so worried about how the characters looked, they would have dropped the pairing in the fake confession. this isn't any "worse" from back then.
> 
> why would SS fans admit defeat? they haven't lost, in fact most of our claims got proved this chapter and even a few got to be hinted.
> 
> Enjoying the salty tears everywhere, otherwise I'd post more.



Case in point... good day to you maam'


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Sensible?  son-michael and a bunch of narusaku fans are simply throwing the towel f-fucking f-finally. if they were so worried about how the characters looked, they would have dropped the pairing in the fake confession. this isn't any "worse" from back then.
> 
> why would SS fans admit defeat? they haven't lost, *in fact most of our claims got proved *this chapter and even a few got to be hinted.
> 
> Enjoying the salty tears everywhere, otherwise I'd post more.


@bolded

What in the fuck?


----------



## Dokiz1 (Sep 25, 2014)

Of course its a good chapter for SS, it has some epic dark romance and blood after all


----------



## Tayimus (Sep 25, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Sensible?  son-michael and a bunch of narusaku fans are simply throwing the towel f-fucking f-finally. if they were so worried about how the characters looked, they would have dropped the pairing in the fake confession. this isn't any "worse" from back then.
> 
> why would SS fans admit defeat? they haven't lost, in fact most of our claims got proved this chapter and even a few got to be hinted.
> 
> Enjoying the salty tears everywhere, otherwise I'd post more.



Lmao!  You're hilarious!  You completely disregard what *son-michael* says and come up with your own interpretation of his response!  Entertaining as Hell!


----------



## Bahamut Slayer (Sep 25, 2014)

son_michael said:


> As a long time Naru saku fan(since the promise of a life time) I am sickened by Sakura's character and quite frankly...no matter how much sense and build up I saw into the Naru Saku relationship...I can no longer support this pairing.



Finally seen the light eh? Don't worry, you're not the only one. Well I got over this loooooooong ago. 



> I could STILL argue in favor of NS and honestly Kishi can go with any pairing he damn well pleases at this point.. *BUT I HOPE* that Naruto ends up with Hinata because he deserves a woman who loves him and Sakura deserves a psychopath like Sasuke or to just be alone for the rest of her life.



Just forget about pairings altogether if you want to feel all the better. Kishimoto simply plays the pairing card to his whim and whenever it suits the plot to his choosing. I mean come on, it's quite obvious. Neji dies, they hold hands. Next thing you know Minato asks if Sakura is his girlfriend, he just says 'yeah' just because her behavior is more like Kushina and we have that typical 'Ah, scary.'



> I have always argued that Naruto will get what he wants...and you know what? It looks like he just wants her to be happy, he wants her to be with Sasuke after he saves him. Naruto needs to do what sakura can't and that's to fall in love with a better person. At this point even if Naru Saku happens, kishi has killed it for me.



Oh definitely. I pretty much don't care whether it happens or not. 



> SO that's it..I'm done! Any pairing could happen right now but I only care about Naruto's happiness and I hope he can learn to be happy with Hinata. *I am no longer a Naru Saku fan * Fuck kishimotto and his shit pairings.



 Congratulations.


----------



## Plague (Sep 25, 2014)

Anyone else want to argue Sakura's confession (to Naruto) being legit? lol


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Sage said:


> Case in point... good day to you maam'



She's the "Die with my Ship" type, are you shocked? She is and has been, genuinely confused at the concept of people simply changing their minds because of it.

My experience, that any SasuSaku fan at this point is either that irrational or ultimately have some batshit insane reasons for supporting the pairing when pressed.


----------



## Derezzed (Sep 25, 2014)

I like how none of the SS fans actually try to defend their pairing, its just a case of strawmans, UMADBRO SO FUCKING SALTY CRY ME A RIVER, and trying to make another pairing look bad. 

Guess that shipping something as fucked up as SS will turn you into a fucked up individual i see.


----------



## Dokiz1 (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> My experience, that any SasuSaku fan at this point is either that irrational or ultimately have some batshit insane reasons for supporting the pairing when pressed.



Seeing as they live vicariously thru Sakura and love is irrational according to this chapter, no need for reasons.


you go girls!


----------



## xXMUGIWARAXx (Sep 25, 2014)

I think this chapter confirmed the end of NaruSaku and SasuSaku. Also naruto stood there and heard Sakura's confession and had no reaction to it at all. I think he is done with sakura and maybe has finally accepted Hinata's feelings


----------



## Mr Horrible (Sep 25, 2014)

ch1p said:


> if they were so worried about how the characters looked, they would have dropped the pairing



Hi-fucking-larious.



SS4life.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Mr Horrible said:


> Hi-fucking-larious.
> 
> 
> 
> SS4life.



That was hilariously ironic to say...



> why would SS fans admit defeat? they haven't lost, in fact most of our claims got proved this chapter and even a few got to be hinted.
> 
> Enjoying the salty tears everywhere, otherwise I'd post more.



Then the projection and saving face. Like no one is salty here, what reality do these people live in? She won't say more because any attempt to defend it would make her look crazy.


----------



## 민찬영 (Sep 25, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> @bolded
> 
> What in the fuck?



Proved that he tells the truth. That's SasSak.


----------



## Drunkenwhale (Sep 25, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Sensible?  son-michael and a bunch of narusaku fans are simply throwing the towel f-fucking f-finally. if they were so worried about how the characters looked, they would have dropped the pairing in the fake confession. this isn't any "worse" from back then.
> 
> *why would SS fans admit defeat? they haven't lost, in fact most of our claims got proved this chapter and even a few got to be hinted.*
> 
> Enjoying the salty tears everywhere, otherwise I'd post more.




...

I'm fairly certain you're one of the people in this quote:



CuteJuubi said:


> SasuSaku shippers sail stronger still:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __





You're the epitome of delusional if you think that.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 25, 2014)

I'm at the point where I wonder who truly ships SS and who is just a troll pretending to ship it for the fadlols


----------



## Revolution (Sep 25, 2014)

Addy said:


> i got more narusasu vibes to be honest.
> 
> naruto turning sasuke's hate into love



Naruto is going to pound some love into Sasuke and get Sasuke on his knees and splash love chakra all over his face.


----------



## Silent Storm (Sep 25, 2014)

Why do people take pairings so seriously?

Admit defeat? Throwing in the towel? You are shipping terrible fictional characters in a terribly written story and getting heated over it with a bunch of strangers on an internet forum. Think about that.

Don't know how anyone can get so invested in pairings to the point of making complete fools of themselves on a public forum.

Shippers really are the worst the Naruto community has to offer and that's saying something.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Sep 25, 2014)

sasuke's right


sakura needs to get a grip on reality 






now that i think about it


sasuke prolly just explained what kakashi meant when he stated that sakura was a genjutsu type for the first time:  this (bottom left panel of sasuke)



in other words, sakura put genjutsu on herself to find tru luv


----------



## Tayimus (Sep 25, 2014)

I think a lot of NaruSaku fans see that it's rather pointless to debate potential pairings as Kishi will bait as he damn well pleases.  Lil NaruSaku scene here, a lil SasuSaku scene there, and how bout a SasuKarin or NaruHina scene thrown in for good measure.  It's fucking ridiculous.  But what's worse is when he totally tears down a character for the sake of this pairbaiting.  

And no character gets hit harder than Sakura and I just don't fucking get Kishi's determination in making this character look as bad as possible.  I mean, I used to be a NaruHina Shipper waaaay back when I first started watching (yeah, I watched the Part 1 of the anime before doubling back to read the manga), but I switched to NaruSaku cause I just liked how Naruto liked Sakura and wanted to make her happy regardless of his own feelings.  But fuck it if Sakura even deserves this at this point.  I'm at the point where I starting to wonder if I even want this character to even have a happy ending.  Why care bout someone who doesn't even care bout themselves?

Contrast this with..._some_ SasuSaku Shippers who I just don't understand.  How does one go from, at worst, trying to murder each other to, at best, what happens in this frigging chapter.  Just how?  Oh lemme not forget the very rare compliment thrown Sakura's way like a bone.  Shit, is she supposed to live years in between each time he shows a lil bit of kindness?  And the whole "change his hate into love...different from his mother" or whatever the shit that was, I see that as a NaruSasu moment.  And at this point, I wouldn't be against these two getting together.  It'll be the biggest FUCK YOU to almost every diehard, delusional shipper, but it would answer a whole lot of WTF questions in regards to the series as a whole.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 25, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> I guess people missed the point....
> 
> Sakura still loves him... it is Sasuke who doesn't have the will to love anyone but himself.
> Naruto will change that... Sasuke will love her like he will love other things in life...
> ...



Implying Sasuke loves himself and never admitted to Edo Itachi he was suppose to die.


----------



## Norngpinky (Sep 25, 2014)

Derezzed said:


> I like how none of the SS fans actually try to defend their pairing, its just a case of strawmans, UMADBRO SO FUCKING SALTY CRY ME A RIVER, and trying to make another pairing look bad.
> 
> *Guess that shipping something as fucked up as SS will turn you into a fucked up individual i see.*



Oh, that is absolutely a mature way to look at things and making connections with people. 

Well done. 



And if you failed to see. That was sarcasm right there.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Norngpinky said:


> Oh, that is absolutely a mature way to look at things and making connections with people.
> 
> Well done.
> 
> ...



Well at the very least, you guys certainly do not look reasonable here.

Who looks at the developments between Sasuke and Sakura and tell themselves this is a relationship to get behind?


----------



## ch1p (Sep 25, 2014)

Derezzed said:


> I like how none of the SS fans actually try to defend their pairing, its just a case of strawmans, UMADBRO SO FUCKING SALTY CRY ME A RIVER, and trying to make another pairing look bad.
> 
> Guess that shipping something as fucked up as SS will turn you into a fucked up individual i see.



>speaks of strawman
>commits strawman himself
????????????
no profit



Drunkenwhale said:


> ...
> 
> I'm fairly certain you're one of the people in this quote:



you're wrong. not that i'm surprised that you're wrong though.


----------



## Norngpinky (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Well at the very least, you guys certainly do not look reasonable here.



So, it's ok to say shit about someone who you DON'T even know simply based on a preference they have?


----------



## Arisu (Sep 25, 2014)

I will always ship SS because I simply enjoy it, gives me so many feels every time. I like those emotions this ship gives me so I can't help rooting for Sasuke and Sakura. At the end Sasuke will be redeemed and learn to accept his bonds with team 7. Those are obviously the strongest bonds he has than with anyone else. I want him to find happiness and I think Sakura can give him this happiness. She can be happy next to him as well, because it was always her dream to be with him. I admire her loyal feelings towards Sasuke. 
Sasuke is a dick towards her now though. SS must go through this pain unfortunately before it becomes canon, because Sasuke is going through this redemption process. Sakura is the kind of girl that won't ever give up and will be patiently waiting for him. She is a type of person that can really teach Sasuke how to love again. 
Love doesn't need a reason Sasuke honey, you just love and that's it. It's like Kakashi said, just hatred has a reason. I love SS so much it hurts. Always and forever. Peace out <3


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

ch1p said:


> >speaks of strawman
> >commits strawman himself
> ????????????
> no profit
> ...



He means in terms of mentality, and you certainly are.


----------



## Mr Horrible (Sep 25, 2014)

Ch1p, you guys should get a board;

"Days since Sasuke has tried to Chidori Sakura".


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Norngpinky said:


> So, it's ok to say shit about someone who you DON'T even know simply based on a preference they have?



It depends, really. You can't be blind that in this particular case what you prefer is not a good reflection on yourself or the fandom at large. Look at all the things you guys have made excuses for and chosen to overlook. All the things that you seriously think are acceptable flaws to occur in the course of the development between the two characters you want to be together. 



Arisu said:


> I will always ship SS because I simply enjoy it, gives me so many feels every time. I like those emotions this ship gives me so I can't help rooting for Sasuke and Sakura. At the end Sasuke will be redeemed and learn to accept his bonds with team 7. Those are obviously the strongest bonds he has than with anyone else. I want him to find happiness and I think Sakura can give him this happiness. She can be happy next to him as well, because it was always her dream to be with him. I admire her loyal feelings towards Sasuke.
> Sasuke is a dick towards her now though. SS must go through this pain unfortunately before it becomes canon, because Sasuke is going through this redemption process. Sakura is the kind of girl that won't ever give up and will be patiently waiting for him. She is a type of person that can really teach Sasuke how to love again.
> Love doesn't need a reason Sasuke honey, you just love and that's it. It's like Kakashi said, just hatred has a reason. I love SS so much it hurts. Always and forever. Peace out <3



Remember those 'batshit insane' reasons I was talking about before?


----------



## Arisu (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Remember those 'batshit insane' reasons I was talking about before?



Love doesn't need a reason mister Seto, it's just there


----------



## Invictus-Kun (Sep 25, 2014)

SasuSaku FC just failed


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Arisu said:


> Love doesn't need a reason mister Seto, it's just there



Not even an exaggeration, but that's what the fangirls of serial killers say to rationalize their feelings. Love always needs a reason, because there is always an explanation on a person's state of mind for particular aspects, and it's reason that defines its nature. As love is simply a feeling, it can be constructive or destructive, and Sakura's is very much the latter. Yet none of you care about that. You just want her to be with Sasuke just because.


----------



## mayumi (Sep 25, 2014)

How can anyone still want a pairing where the guy out right tells you that he does not liker her and that she is annoying. Then mentally tortures her and leaves.

It is digusting that Sakura has no ounce of self respect in herserlf. Omit that, she actually thinks she is pathetic but still continues down the pathetic path. Why do that to your self?

Oh and Naruto will fill Sasuke with love so that Sasuke can come back and now correctly love Sakura. Yup, Naruto does all the work so SS can happen. Pretty disgusting if pairing has to rely on a burdened promise that Naruto made to get their pairing in the end.

Love doesn't need a reason, It does not make sense. It is complicated. Excuses, excuses, EXCUSES.

Must have read twilight or fifty shades of grey or other shitty books that romantacize abuse. Naruto soon to join or already joined that club depending on WTF Sakura decides to do after waking up from genjutsu.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 25, 2014)

Arisu said:


> I will always ship SS because I simply enjoy it, gives me so many feels every time. I like those emotions this ship gives me so I can't help rooting for Sasuke and Sakura. At the end Sasuke will be redeemed and learn to accept his bonds with team 7. Those are obviously the strongest bonds he has than with anyone else. I want him to find happiness and I think Sakura can give him this happiness. She can be happy next to him as well, because it was always her dream to be with him. I admire her loyal feelings towards Sasuke.
> Sasuke is a dick towards her now though. SS must go through this pain unfortunately before it becomes canon, because Sasuke is going through this redemption process. Sakura is the kind of girl that won't ever give up and will be patiently waiting for him. She is a type of person that can really teach Sasuke how to love again.
> Love doesn't need a reason Sasuke honey, you just love and that's it. It's like Kakashi said, just hatred has a reason. I love SS so much it hurts. Always and forever. Peace out <3



I can respect this.  It is sincere and to the point.  It's honest.  It's not crazy or insulting either.  

All SasuSaku people should be like you.

I do have a question though.  You will always ship SasuSaku, but if Sasuke still says no after fighting Naruto, so does this mean Sakura will just never date and always love that one guy who never loved her back? (In the event it does not become cannon, of course)


----------



## Dokiz1 (Sep 25, 2014)

mayumi said:


> How can anyone still want a pairing where the guy out right tells you that he does not liker her and that she is annoying. Then mentally tortures her and leaves.





its just sasuke being a tsundere, come on now.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 25, 2014)

I ship Ch1p and Seto Kaiba


----------



## Norngpinky (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It depends, really. You can't be blind that in this particular case what you prefer is not a good reflection on yourself or the fandom at large.



People make a big deal out of it. In this particular case, it's just a pairing. So what if some people chose to root for something like SS or NS or NH or any other pairings in Naruto. It's just a pairing in the end. There's no need to make such nasty remarks about people like that person did.


----------



## Arisu (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Not even an exaggeration, but that's what the fangirls of serial killers say to rationalize their feelings. Love always needs a reason, because there is always an explanation on a person's state of mind for particular aspects, and it's reason that defines its nature. As love is simply a feeling, it can be constructive or destructive, and Sakura's is very much the latter. Yet none of you care about that. You just want her to be with Sasuke just because.



Kishi just said otherwise. Kakashi said just hate needs a reason. Means only you my dear Seto sir need to have a reason for all this hating  
I want her to be with Sasuke so they can be both happy. As I like them both it's only natural I want this for them. No matter what hardships they have to go through, they will end up together cause it's how love works baby


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

... Is  ....... it just that hard. 

...to accept that the SasuSaku pairing itself just doesn't look feasible at this point...?

This is starting to become really sad.


----------



## kyuubi (Sep 25, 2014)

How relationships are conveyed in this manga is very, very, unhealthy. 

*Those that greatly admire these pairings, please do not seek what you read as actual love advice.*

Thank you.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

> I admire her loyal feelings towards Sasuke.
> 
> Sasuke is a dick towards her now though. SS must go through this pain unfortunately before it becomes canon, because Sasuke is going through this redemption process. Sakura is the kind of girl that won't ever give up and will be patiently waiting for him.
> 
> She is a type of person that can really teach Sasuke how to love again.



This is the excerpt I find the most fucked up, really. This is exactly the problem reviewers had with novels like Twilight for example, is that it attempts to make an ideal out of something that shouldn't be idealized. What Sakura comes off as having is emotional dependency, which is very unhealthy. Loyalty to another does not mean taking every kind of shitty thing they do to you and those around you, that is indicative of a person with no respect for themselves and no dignity. 

The fact that you look at the developments between the two as 'trials' regarding that loyalty says a lot. That it's acceptable for Sakura to suffer such indignities for the sake of romance is a horrible message to send. No one with any sensibility on the matter should be cheerleading that.

Also, the last thing that a pairing should be, as a relationship, is a therapy session.


----------



## Sage (Sep 25, 2014)

Norngpinky said:


> So, it's ok to say shit about someone who you DON'T even know simply based on a preference they have?


welcome to the internet... how was your stay living under a rock?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Norngpinky said:


> People make a big deal out of it. In this particular case, it's just a pairing. So what if some people chose to root for something like SS or NS or NH or any other pairings in Naruto. It's just a pairing in the end. There's no need to make such nasty remarks about people like that person did.



You act like they're all the same when they aren't.

There are things that have happened between Sasuke and Sakura that fall squarely in line with matters we are nearly all raised on not to tolerate and to avoid in the course of pursuing or engaging in a relationship. Factors that we are told not to idealize in other relationships, such as in forms of entertainment media that depict them as something highly negative. Which they are. Then when you have a fanbase excusing such negative occurrences, and even worse like with Arisu romanticizing them? What else will people think?


----------



## Arisu (Sep 25, 2014)

Revolution said:


> I can respect this.  It is sincere and to the point.  It's honest.  It's not crazy or insulting either.
> 
> All SasuSaku people should be like you.
> 
> I do have a question though.  You will always ship SasuSaku, but if Sasuke still says no after fighting Naruto, so does this mean Sakura will just never date and always love that one guy who never loved her back? (In the event it does not become cannon, of course)



Well thank You Sarah...

I think Sakura has Tsunade syndrome. She just won't move on from loving Sasuke no matter what. I don't imagine her with anyone else. If he says no to her, it's okay. But she's still an important person in his life whatever he says. I think Sakura could be happy just by having Sasuke close and seeing him safe. At some point Sasuke's heart will melt and respond to her love because that's how sweet and warm person she is. Sasuke will need someone to comfort him after the war, he'll be just drawn towards her because she's so warm. Warmth is like a magnet to people. If Sasuke still continues to push her away and being a dick, oh well, they have whole lives in front of each other. I will still root for them, maybe someday. Or maybe not. However the concept of SasuSaku is sweet.


----------



## Mr Horrible (Sep 25, 2014)

Arisu said:


> Kishi just said otherwise. Kakashi said just hate needs a reason. Means only you my dear Seto sir need to have a reason for all this hating
> I want her to be with Sasuke so they can be both happy. As I like them both it's only natural I want this for them. No matter what hardships they have to go through, they will end up together cause it's how love works baby



What part of SS in the past 400 chapters has left Sakura happy? Good fucking lord.

When did Sakura ever do something for Sasuke that made him happy? Especially if he was unhappy at the time (hint; apples).


----------



## kyuubi (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> This is the excerpt I find the most fucked up, really. This is exactly the problem reviewers had with novels like Twilight for example, is that it attempts to make an ideal out of something that shouldn't be idealized. What Sakura comes off as having is emotional dependency, which is very unhealthy. Loyalty to another does not mean taking every kind of shitty thing they do to you and those around you, that is indicative of a person with no respect for themselves and no dignity.
> 
> The fact that you look at the developments between the two as 'trials' regarding that loyalty says a lot. That it's acceptable for Sakura to suffer such indignities for the sake of romance is a horrible message to send. No one with any sensibility on the matter should be cheerleading that.
> 
> Also, the last thing that a pairing should be, as a relationship, is a therapy session.



Do not worry, Naruto will be right back her side to 'suffer' said indignities.

Naruto has suffered countless attempts on his life by Sasuke, and yet he's still willing to be his friend.  She in return still greatly loves Sasuke, despite the verbal slander and also the attempt(s) on her life.

If it is written, it will be made so.  Either it comes down to Sakura will question Sasuke, or Sasuke will be made by Naruto to love Sakura.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

kyuubi said:


> Do not worry, Naruto will be right back her side to 'suffer' said indignities.
> 
> Naruto has suffered countless attempts on his life by Sasuke, and yet he's still willing to be his friend.  She in return still greatly loves Sasuke, despite the verbal slander and also the attempt(s) on her life.
> 
> If it is written, it will be made so.  Either it comes down to Sakura will question Sasuke, or Sasuke will be made by Naruto to love Sakura.



Yeah, Naruto himself looks incredibly pathetic on the matter too. 

I think it's no question Kishi is trying to make the two look virtuous for all this, and that he is trying a load of other failed aesops through the matter too. There's no question that things will work out, just because. Kishi wrote himself into a corner, so things will just be a rushed, nonsensical process. No doubt on that at least. 

However none of the developments affect people's ability to think and process these things. Like you and I know that Kishi is trying to make it seem like Sasuke and Naruto are super special awesome BFFs. Yet it would be safe to say you and I also see that as a load of bullshit, correct? Because what is told does not fit what is shown. Kishi doesn't define what friendship is, he has to try to portray it in a manner that riles our sympathies. In failing to do so (as he has), we look at it in a way that he did not intend which many do. 

I notice that with SasuSaku for example there's an enormous apprehensiveness in using that basic ability. It's eat up unquestioningly what is favorable, selectively filter out what is unfavorable.


----------



## SLB (Sep 25, 2014)

the mental gymnastics going on here is astounding


----------



## Norngpinky (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You act like they're all the same when they aren't.
> 
> There are things that have happened between Sasuke and Sakura that fall squarely in line with matters we are nearly all raised on not to tolerate and to avoid in the course of pursuing or engaging in a relationship. Factors that we are told not to idealize in other relationships, such as in forms of entertainment media that depict them as something highly negative. Which they are. Then when you have a fanbase excusing such negative occurrences, and even worse like with Arisu romanticizing them? What else will people think?




Perhaps you can think that people may have their own reasons for liking a particular pairing or even a character. You need to realize that people don't need to agree to every aspect of the wring to enjoy it. Because Kishi surely isn't close to being a perfect writer when it comes to story telling. I don't believe wanting SS to be canon alone makes a person a horrible human being. Nor does it define who we are. If you were 13 that would be different. But we're not, are we.


----------



## SLB (Sep 25, 2014)

Norngpinky said:


> Perhaps you can think that people may have their own reasons for liking a particular pairing or even a character. You need to realize that people don't need to agree to every aspect of the wring to enjoy it. Because Kishi surely isn't close to being a perfect writer when it comes to story telling. I don't believe wanting SS to be canon alone makes a person a horrible human being. Nor does it define who we are. If you were 13 that would be different. But we're not, are we.



Thats... not really a solid argument. I mean, sure someone has the right to like something, but at some point one has to wonder why? This pairing is riddled with murder attempts, indifference, and a rather disturbing disregard for rationality. Wanting it to come to fruition even after all this begs the question: Why?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Norngpinky said:


> Perhaps you can think that people may have their own reasons for liking a particular pairing or even a character. You need to realize that people don't need to agree to every aspect of the wring to enjoy it. Because Kishi surely isn't close to being a perfect writer when it comes to story telling. I don't believe wanting SS to be canon alone makes a person a horrible human being. Nor does it define who we are. If you were 13 that would be different. But we're not, are we.



Of course, it doesn't make you a horrible human being, but it does raise valid questions on what exactly are you guys idealizing here and why. 

I'm not gonna act like I haven't said things, and I honestly do feel that either at this point support for it is irrational or the person themselves are irrational. I know that people can get so caught up in a pairing that they just begin excusing and overlooking things that they don't and wouldn't do for any other. Yet I also know that the shipping fandom has some crazy as fuck people that seriously idealize this shit.


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 25, 2014)

It's no surprise that Kishimoto would attempt something like this to endorse the familial bond that Team 7 has with Sasuke. 

It's just that pairing wise, this chapter utterly destroyed SasuSaku. 

Sasuke very blatantly expresses his utter disgust at the idea behind SasuSaku, saying that he honestly has no interest in her and wonders why the fuck she even likes him. Kakashi says that LOVE NEEDS NO REASONS, and pretty much says that he doesn't have to be an asshole to someone that's in love with him even if he doesn't like her back. Sasuke replies to that very idea "That shit's in the past". He can't even be bothered to care for her as a friend or as a comrade. 

Like, I don't understand how a person can see this pairing coming after this chapter destroyed the idea of it via Sasuke. IF HE NEEDS THERAPY TO CARE FOR HER AS A FRIEND OR A COMRADE, WHY THE FUCK WOULD HE EVER FALL IN LOVE WITH HER? What sort of message can this chapter send to the reader other than the complete death of this pairing?


----------



## Selina Kyle (Sep 25, 2014)

if sakura still keeps on chasing sasuke after this...



wtf no 




kishimoto made it legit clear as crystal now that sasuke will never, never fall for sakura.


he actually wrapped this pairing shit up with two liners from sasuke in this chapter (pg 10)


----------



## kyuubi (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Yet it would be safe to say you and I also see that as a load of bullshit, correct?
> Because what is told does not fit what is shown.



Most def.



> Kishi doesn't define what friendship is, he has to try to portray it in a manner that riles our sympathies. In failing to do so (as he has), we look at it in a way that he did not intend which many do.



I started Naruto when I was 13 - 14.  

Now I'm 26.

My tastes have greatly changed, and I have come to acknowledge, Naruto, like many shonens, is absolute garbage. * What makes shonens really shine are their fight scenes, that's what they are honestly mostly remembered for. 
*
Kishimoto's original 'themes' worked out well, but then they became redundant.  About time the 100th flashback was shown I was already tired of things. If Kishimoto was to attempt to do this right, this would take more than 1,000 chapters.  We have to understand he has editors and Shonen Jump on his back.  In America, in terms of Literature, the Author has more liberties. Mangakas in Japan? Not so much. 

The pairing thing to Kishimoto was a side project. And I am surprised he was allowed to get away with as much as he did.  But honestly what really is going to sell issues is how well this fight goes down.


----------



## Arisu (Sep 25, 2014)

Mr Horrible said:


> What part of SS in the past 400 chapters has left Sakura happy? Good fucking lord.
> 
> When did Sakura ever do something for Sasuke that made him happy? Especially if he was unhappy at the time (hint; apples).



In the last 400 chapters Sasuke was away from Konoha and pretty much fueled by his revenge. How the fuck SS could have a chance to make Sakura happy? 
When Sasuke appears at the battlefield again after he listened to Kage's story, he's rushing to her side to save her. She looks pretty happy to me. 
It's just when Sasuke doesn't act like he's himself makes Sakura sad. It's understandable, she loves him and wants what's best for him and she's worried.

Sakura never stopped loving him, always thought about him through every second of her life, she saved his life together with Obito. If not for her, Sasuke wouldn't be able to get out of the desert dimension. If you look at part 1, you can see how Sasuke acts when he's himself. He pretty much smiles around her many times. He even thanks her for the time they spent together, which means he was enjoying it. If you read the manga carefully you'll see it. I can't read it for you unfortunately.   

What you cannot grasp is that Sasuke is fueled by hatred and only love can save him. And Sakura has plenty of it for him. He just needs to understand this to be happy again.


----------



## Sieves (Sep 25, 2014)

it's a narusasu world and everybody else is just thirsty in it


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Arisu said:


> In the last 400 chapters Sasuke was away from Konoha and pretty much fueled by his revenge. How the fuck SS could have a chance to make Sakura happy?
> When Sasuke appears at the battlefield again after he listened to Kage's story, he's rushing to her side to save her. She looks pretty happy to me.
> It's just when Sasuke doesn't act like he's himself makes Sakura sad. It's understandable, she loves him and wants what's best for him and she's worried.



This "he's not himself/he's just in a dark place" stuff are just excuses. He has always been himself. He just changed, like characters and people tend to do. 

There's a part of Sasuke that is more or less, completely callous to others. I think it's very telling how you so hungrily cling to any act of decency or basic humanity on Sasuke's part as if it excuses or undoes all the horrible things he's done. 



> Sakura never stopped loving him, always thought about him through every second of her life, she saved his life together with Obito. If not for her, Sasuke wouldn't be able to get out of the desert dimension. If you look at part 1, you can see how Sasuke acts when he's himself. He pretty much smiles around her many times. He even thanks her for the time they spent together, which means he was enjoying it. If you read the manga carefully you'll see it. I can't read it for you unfortunately.
> 
> What you cannot grasp is that Sasuke is fueled by hatred and only love can save him. And Sakura has plenty of it for him. He just needs to understand this to be happy again.



Actually, he was quite the scowler. While he did care about his teammates, he also looked down on them and thought himself as superior to them for the longest time. Yet this goes to may point you are trying to disassociate his worst with his character, and run under the idea that the things he's done are in any way excusable in order to conjure up excuses on why you still ship him with Sakura. You'll inevitably respond to "but Kishi says..." which will only reveal that you probably have not even given this much thought.

Everyone gets Sasuke's character fine, which is why people are looking at you guys so oddly. Because you want him to be with someone who he has treated horribly, and worse yet try to romanticize it all.

Are you even aware that the rationale you use is exactly the same kind you see when excusing abusive and emotionally destructive situations? Why is this? Because SasuSaku has gotten to that point. You have little choice but to.


----------



## Mizura (Sep 25, 2014)

I'm not sure if it's been posted here yet, so here are the raw scripts.

As far as I can tell, Sakura uses daisuki ('like a lot', which basically translated into love), Kakashi uses ai (love again), and I don't see any past tense (from my basic knowledge of Japanese grammar). I'm anti-SasuSaku, so consider this post unbiased.

I wouldn't mind any pairing if Kishimoto handled it well, but I'm rather puzzled by how Much of a jerk Kishimoto is making Sasuke to be towards Sakura, after she saved his life and helped save the world. :\ Sure, Naruto is going to beat some sense into Sasuke, but that in itself is weird. If a boy doesn't reciprocate your feelings, and still thinks of you as shit after you saved him and helped save the world, just send a boy who does like you to beat him up to force him into reciprocating? How does that work?


----------



## Selina Kyle (Sep 25, 2014)

Mizura said:


> I'm not sure if it's been posted here yet, so here are the raw scripts.
> 
> As far as I can tell, Sakura uses daisuki ('like a lot', which basically translated into love), Kakashi uses ai (love again), and I don't see any past tense (from my basic knowledge of Japanese grammar). I'm anti-SasuSaku, so consider this post unbiased.
> 
> I wouldn't mind any pairing if Kishimoto handled it well, but I'm rather puzzled by how Much of a jerk Kishimoto is making Sasuke to be towards Sakura, after she saved his life and helped save the world. :\ Sure, Naruto is going to beat some sense into Sasuke, but that in itself is weird.* If a boy doesn't reciprocate your feelings, and still thinks of you as shit after you saved him and helped save the world, just send a boy who does like you to beat him up to force him into reciprocating? How does that work?* : psyduck





that's not it at all


naruto's bringing back sasuke but that's all he's gonna do. bring him back. 

nardo isn't gonna force sasuke into loving sakura.


----------



## Norngpinky (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Of course, it doesn't make you a horrible human being, but it does raise valid questions on what exactly are you guys idealizing here and why.
> 
> I'm not gonna act like I haven't said things, and I honestly do feel that either at this point support for it is irrational or the person themselves are irrational. I know that people can get so caught up in a pairing that they just begin excusing and overlooking things that they don't and wouldn't do for any other. Yet I also know that the shipping fandom has some crazy as fuck people that seriously idealize this shit.



Even if there were people who seriously idealized this pairing, I don't see typical shippers worshiping the pairing to the bone LOL That's the impression I get from you guys, like somehow we make a shrine, put a statue of SS marrying each other in the center and worship it 24/7. Like I said, one doesn't need to like every aspect of the writing to enjoy it. Same applied here, I don't need to like every detail of the plot in regards these two characters to want it to be canon in the end. And even if it became canon, doesn't mean that every fan will enjoy it either. It doesn't need to be one way or another. 





Moody said:


> Thats... not really a solid argument. I mean, sure someone has the right to like something, but at some point one has to wonder why? This pairing is riddled with murder attempts, indifference, and a rather disturbing disregard for rationality. Wanting it to come to fruition even after all this begs the question: Why?



If you're not too tired you can look at the FC, I think there some nice posts about why some people are still shipping it ;/ Will just have to take some time skimming through the many pages for those posts though.


----------



## Mizura (Sep 25, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> naruto's bringing back sasuke but that's all he's gonna do. bring him back.
> 
> nardo isn't gonna force sasuke into loving sakura.


No, I'm saying that if SasuSaku somehow Does happen before the end of the series, it'd basically be because Sasuke changed his mind because Naruto beat him up. I mean, he didn't change his opinion of her after she saved him and helped save the world. Since her own efforts obviously failed, that leaves Naruto's efforts.

Unless, of course, SasuSaku doesn't happen.

"He will fall in love with Sakura eventually once the story has ended" makes no sense in terms of storytelling, not when there hasn't been a single seed in place on which a Sasuke -> Sakura romance can be built. If one says "it can happen eventually once the story has ended", hell, the same could be said of Naruto x Tenten or whatever other pairing.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Norngpinky said:


> Even if there were people who seriously idealized this pairing, I don't see typical shippers worshiping the pairing to the bone LOL That's the impression I get from you guys, like somehow we make a shrine, put a statue of SS marrying each other in the center and worship it 24/7. Like I said, one doesn't need to like every aspect of the writing to enjoy it. Same applied here, I don't need to like every detail of the plot in regards these two characters to want it to be canon in the end. And even if it became canon, doesn't mean that every fan will enjoy it either. It doesn't need to be one way or another.



You aren't getting what I said. The fact that you want the pairing to happen even in spite of all that's happened is what raises questions. You may not like everything that's happened, but you certainly seem to think they are acceptable enough not to rescind support for the pairing and that is what gets people raising questions.

It just seems like all it is at this point is a desire for it to happen just for the sake of it happening. Because think and be honest with yourself here. You cannot seriously advertise a pairing with the developments your own has had and expect people to say "Well that's a relationship I can get behind!" It's simply unrealistic to expect. Your pairing explicitly has developments that people are taught to hold in contempt, and as much as some of you object to it is the most reminiscent of an abusive relationship of the main pairings in this story.


----------



## Plague (Sep 25, 2014)

I use to be Anti-SS then became neutral to it. 

I won't deny that it is the most poorly handled pairing in the manga. But maybe Sasuke has an excuse, being and Uchiha and all. (I dunno.....maybe lol)

I think him knocking out Sakura was supposed to parallel how he knocked her out and put her on a bench when he left the village the first time. Except this time, since he Genjutu'd her, it was to show how much colder he is now.

I feel bad for Sakura, Sasuke is an asshole, but most of the time when someones a douche, they get owned really bad, so lets hope Naruto can deliver. 

From a writers stand point, maybe that's what Kishimoto was really going for this chapter. Get the readers to root from Naruto. 

I don't know what to think at this point.


----------



## Mr Horrible (Sep 25, 2014)

Arisu said:


> In the last 400 chapters Sasuke was away from Konoha and pretty much fueled by his revenge. How the fuck SS could have a chance to make Sakura happy?



So what you're saying is that SS hasn't made Sakura happy?

Remember Sasuke willingly chose to break his bonds at the end of part 1. While he may have been manipulated his actions have still always been his choice at the end of the day.



> When Sasuke appears at the battlefield again after he listened to Kage's story, he's rushing to her side to save her. She looks pretty happy to me.



You mean right near the fake smile Sakura showed to Sai? We have a very different definition of happiness then. Recent events have shown that Team 7 was pretty much only pretending there.



> It's just when Sasuke doesn't act like he's himself makes Sakura sad. It's understandable, she loves him and wants what's best for him and she's worried.



Sasuke has spent ~3x more time as his part 2 self than he has as his part 1 self. Who the hell are you to suggest this isn't who Sasuke is? As I said before Sasuke has been willingly making these decisions the whole way.

Now Sakura's been sad because Sasuke hasn't acted like who she thought he was, I certainly agree with that.



> Sakura never stopped loving him, always thought about him through every second of her life, she saved his life together with Obito. If not for her, Sasuke wouldn't be able to get out of the desert dimension. If you look at part 1, you can see how Sasuke acts when he's himself. He pretty much smiles around her many times. He even thanks her for the time they spent together, which means he was enjoying it. If you read the manga carefully you'll see it. I can't read it for you unfortunately.



"If you read the manga carefully", good fucking lord. 

Tally up the number of occurances Sasuke makes Sakura happy in part 1, I can easily show you there are more where he just shoots her down. 



> What you cannot grasp is that Sasuke is fueled by hatred and only love can save him. And Sakura has plenty of it for him. He just needs to understand this to be happy again.



What you cannot grasp is Sakura is going to have nothing to do with Sasuke's redemption, the recent chapter should have made this clear. Everything was put on Naruto; both redeeming Sasuke and making him love Sakura .

The last sentence is fucking absurd. When has Sasuke ever suggested he wanted anything to do with Sakura's love? All he has repeatedly said is that he's not interested and yet you assume that he will just magically change his mind once he realises Naruto's plan is better. This is typical of the delusion present in SS; you can't reconcile the SS shown in the manga with the one you want to happen so you misinterpret events/characters until it kind of fits. You also completely ignored my point about the apples scene which I believe is huge. Sasuke was still mostly in his right mind at this stage (sure he was jealous of Naruto's progress but that was a key part of his 'good' personality), Sakura is just completely unable to help Sasuke when he actually needs it.



Ok, in this recent chapter Sasuke _needlessly_ showed Sakura a genjutsu of her being killed by him. Where the fuck is the outrage from SS about this? It's one of the worst things Sasuke has done as it was almost entirely unprovoked. All I see is delusions about how he repeated "you're annoying" or that he didn't *actually* try to kill her this time.

This is why SS is fucking awful, you guys are so far down the rabbit hole that utterly unsympathetic events are either ignored or glossed over with "Sasuke isn't himself right now". I mean look at Sakura in this chapter, she's fucking miserable (and Kakashi said it as well). This isn't even a new thing either, ever since Sasuke joined the Akatsuki it's par for the fucking course.

I just cannot fathom how people can support this pairing sometimes.


----------



## Azula (Sep 25, 2014)

CuteJuubi said:


> SasuSaku shippers sail stronger still:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



..

do they by any chance read sasusaku shippuden


----------



## benzz15 (Sep 25, 2014)

if naruto even attempts to get back with sakura he is no more than a fucking pathetic cuckhold beta male who accepts being second best and sakura only settling with him. any man who knows they aren't first choice to a girl and still pursue them and try to "win" them over should be castrated since they no longer have need for their balls.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Sep 25, 2014)

Mizura said:


> No, I'm saying that if SasuSaku somehow Does happen before the end of the series, it'd basically be because Sasuke changed his mind because Naruto beat him up. I mean, he didn't change his opinion of her after she saved him and helped save the world. Since her own efforts obviously failed, that leaves Naruto's efforts.
> 
> Unless, of course, SasuSaku doesn't happen.
> 
> "He will fall in love with Sakura eventually once the story has ended" makes no sense in terms of storytelling, not when there hasn't been a single seed in place on which a Sasuke -> Sakura romance can be built. If one says "it can happen eventually once the story has ended", hell, the same could be said of Naruto x Tenten or whatever other pairing.




nothing really implies that sasusaku will happen just cuz nardo beat sasuke 


sasuke never loved sakura. he may have cared about her as a teammate in the past, but there was never any hints of love for her in the past.

every time, nardo beats someone up, they end up going back to their 'pure' state again, or what they were once and what they could be for the future in positive light. 

sasuke did care about his team once. if nardo does successfully end up beating sasuke, sasuke might go back to being part of team 7 and go back to that 'pure' state. loving sakura, however, is out of the question since he never loved her in the beginning and was never part of his 'pure' state.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 25, 2014)

I wish I wasn't in this stupid tablet. So not productive.


----------



## Kuromaku (Sep 25, 2014)

I think it's safe to say that Masashi of the family Kishimoto has single-handedly ensured that no matter how he resolves the romantic subplot, no one will actually be happy.

With NH, Naruto looks like the guy who couldn't get the girl he wanted, but hey, there's this one-dimensional pair of tits that will support him no matter what. But that's okay, because deep down, guys don't want a life partner. They want a pair of tits that centers her entire being around them and only them, good characterization and plotting be damned.

With NS, Naruto comes off as pathetic for chasing after such a lame person. Worse yet, said lame person has been in love with some chump for the past 693 chapters with no signs of slowing down. Sure, you might argue that this is romantic and that love has no need for logic. And I might argue, as will anyone with a brain, that this is moronic and twisted, and that love, as with most other important life decisions, relies on logic.

Finally, we come to SS. We have a girl chasing a chump. We have a pathetic loser who loves a guy for no good reason, which the story even acknowledges. We have a guy who anyone in their right mind wouldn't want to be in a relationship with (emphasis on anyone in their right mind). We can make excuses about love needing no reasons and suffering for love being heroic and all sorts of BS. But in the end, it's nothing more than a badly written fantasy that horribly attempts to appeal to 13 year old girls and people with that sort of mentality.

Now some people might say that I'm wrong. And I would say that's fine, but if I may borrow a turn of phrase, if you're stupid.

I like a lot of things that I can say with little doubt are bad. I find _Freddy Got Fingered_ and _Flame of Recca_ to be guilty pleasures. But I won't pretend they're anything but bad. And yet they appeal to me for some stupid ass reason. I won't defend them, but I'll admit to liking them. You can like these pairings as I like my guilty pleasures. But don't pretend they're anything but shit.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 25, 2014)

benzz15 said:


> if naruto even attempts to get back with sakura he is no more than a fucking pathetic cuckhold beta male who accepts being second best and sakura only settling with him. any man who knows they aren't first choice to a girl and still pursue them and try to "win" them over should be castrated since they no longer have need for their balls.





This thread has so many gems


----------



## Bellville (Sep 25, 2014)

Kishimoto was seriously pushing it with that 'reason to hate' line. I find it odd that a person needs no reason to love. This is just a lazy way of Kishi writing off his lack of foundation for why Sakura's feelings are so intense after all this. I can't fault Sasuke in the least for questioning Sakura on the matter. People aren't really gonna give you shit for loving something if it doesn't harm you or society in any way, even if your reasoning is shallow. But if a person loves something that brings them pain and threatens their life, then hell yes people are gonna question what the fuck they're thinking to keep running back to such situations. And with good reason. 

Sasusaku's got a chance, IMO. I have zero faith in Kishi writing decent, relatable characters. But man did he really thrash any semblance of dignity Sakura might have had at this point. (Shitting on her genjutsu disarming prowess is just icing on the cake).


----------



## Revolution (Sep 25, 2014)

^
Because he forgot she had them!

Jair like he forgot about inner Sakura and lots of other things


----------



## Norngpinky (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You aren't getting what I said. The fact that you want the pairing to happen even in spite of all that's happened is what raises questions. You may not like everything that's happened, but you certainly seem to think they are acceptable enough not to rescind support for the pairing and that is what gets people raising questions.
> 
> It just seems like all it is at this point is a desire for it to happen just for the sake of it happening. Because think and be honest with yourself here. You cannot seriously advertise a pairing with the developments your own has had and expect people to say "Well that's a relationship I can get behind!" It's simply unrealistic to expect. Your pairing explicitly has developments that people are taught to hold in contempt, and as much as some of you object to it is the most reminiscent of an abusive relationship of the main pairings in this story.



SasuSaku is definitely not a perfect pairing. If that's what you want me to agree with, then I can. But why would I advertise this relationship as something I idealize and stand for in real life when it's just a pairing that I happen to root for. Like I read Naruto on a weekly basis, but I wouldn't say it's something I highly recommend to just anyone. I brought up the fact that people don't need to agree to every thing written in the story because I don't need to have a new reason for everything that Kishi decides to write here. In fact, I think he did a lousy job on many of his main plots. I still read it in hopes at least it won't go completely down the drain. With SS and Naruto in general, I read it trying to comprehend what's going on with what Kishi is trying to point out. It's a manga about bonds, and that's why Naruto and Sakura are still holding on to the hopes that Sasuke will change. While if I were the author, I would have written Sasuke and Sakura's relationship differently in part 2 I can try to look at it positively hoping that he'll make some things right. Otherwise if I seriously vouched that all of it was based on abusive relationships I would have dropped the manga a long time ago. It would have been completely pointless to follow. It's a manga that I don't think I need to waste my brain cells trying to justify everything the characters do. I can't say it for you or everyone, but I don't expect every real life standards to be applied in fiction like Naruto. Therefore, I don't have that high of an expectation when it comes to whether the story is that close to reality. And with that it doesn't need to be exactly what I actually idealize in a relationship in real life ;/


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Norngpinky said:


> SasuSaku is definitely not a perfect pairing. If that's what you want me to agree with, then I can. But why would I advertise this relationship as something I idealize and stand for in real life when it's just a pairing that I happen to root for. Like I read Naruto on a weekly basis, but I wouldn't say it's something I highly recommend to just anyone. I brought up the fact that people don't need to agree to every thing written in the story because I don't need to have a new reason for everything that Kishi decides to write here. In fact, I think he did a lousy job on many of his main plots. I still read it in hopes at least it won't go completely down the drain. With SS and Naruto in general, I read it trying to comprehend what's going on with what Kishi is trying to point out.



Yet you are acting like it just has casual flaws, it has some pretty massively atrocious ones. Ones that turn a way people that I would imagine ship a pairing because they think it shapes up as an ideal romantic bond. The developments between Sasuke and Sakura do not fit with that. 



> It's a manga about bonds, and that's why Naruto and Sakura are still holding on to the hopes that Sasuke will change.



We all know of the intended themes, it was never a point of contention.



> While if I were the author, I would have written Sasuke and Sakura's relationship differently in part 2 I can try to look at it positively hoping that he'll make some things right. Otherwise if I seriously vouched that all of it was based on abusive relationships I would have dropped the manga a long time ago. It would have been completely pointless to follow. It's a manga that I don't think I need to waste my brain cells trying to justify everything the characters do. I can't say it for you or everyone, but I don't expect every real life standards to be apply in fiction like Naruto.



See, but you are trying to shy away from the critical thinking aspect of reading a story. 

Naruto is not a story written by an alien from Planet Xenu. It's written by a human being, and because of that attempts to express and portray human concepts and morality. That is how he tries to connect to his audience, by appealing to the sensibilities they have on the concepts he touches upon. 

The fact that it fails to do so on so many things, including that of the matter between Team 7 is what makes people look upon it with contempt and criticism. Specifically that Sasuke and Sakura reflects concepts that we associate as abusive and contemptible, is what makes people question why individuals like yourself ship SasuSaku. You are trying to characterize it as overthinking, when on the contrary it is basic thought that leads people to these conclusions.



> And with that it doesn't need to be exactly what I actually idealize in a relationship in real life ;/



Invalid argument. One would expect it to at least meet the basic concepts of what constitutes a healthy relationship, or one that is shaping up to be one with the support it has. The fact that you believe it to ultimately become something of that, and want it to progress to romance only shows that you do carry some of those ideals in shipping it yourself. You are just selectively choosing when they apply and when they do not.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 25, 2014)

Someone explained it so well, better then me. 



> In SasuSaku, we get basically a twilightish, drama ridden type of romance.
> In SasuKarin, we get that 21st century, club dry humping, BDSM type of romance.
> For some reason SasuIno seems like it would be mature (intellectually I mean) and lighthearted type of romance.
> In SasuHina, we get that intimate, traditional and peaceful type of romance.



Wonder what SasuTen is 

Or even better, Sasuke with a new character (while Naruto marries the ramen girl, Ayame)


----------



## Sage (Sep 26, 2014)

CuteJuubi said:


> SasuSaku shippers sail stronger still:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



HOLY SHIT! that is a whole lot of winning posts! I am laughing so hard I think I peed my pants 

her expressing love for him annoys him....
SS Translation: Sasuke is annoyed by how much he loves Sakura...

gold, pure gold! I am laughing so hard it hurts... 

If SS believes Sasuke doesn't want Sakura to know how much he loves her and that's why he has to knock her out...

Then.. why... the... fuck.. did he continue mocking and ridiculing her AFTER she was unconscious!?!? what purpose did this serve to convince _Sakura_ who couldn't hear any of this?...  

Kakashi already knows Sasuke is an ass and already knows Sasuke doesn't love her... so why would Sasuke try to 'save face' with Kakashi by degrading her even further? couldn't he have just stayed quiet and ignored Kakashi's comments?

Is it because he cares more about his image of how others perceive him and doesn't want them to think he is capable of loving someone.... that he'd rather ridicule Sakura to others than hint at the possibility he might like her?... Awwwww lol


----------



## Mr Horrible (Sep 26, 2014)

Revolution said:


> Someone explained it so well, better then me.
> 
> Wonder what SasuTen is
> 
> Or even better, Sasuke with a new character (while Naruto marries the ramen girl, Ayame)



Sasuke and romance don't work together.


----------



## Azula (Sep 26, 2014)

Sage said:


> Then.. why... the... fuck.. did he continue mocking and ridiculing her AFTER she was unconscious!?!? what purpose did this serve to convince _Sakura_ who couldn't hear any of this?...



You are using too much logic


----------



## Plague (Sep 26, 2014)

Doesn't anyone else feel bad for Sakura here? Think about someone you love so much that it hurts, and then they stab you (well, in a Genjutsu but still) and ridicule you. 

Sasuke is mean. Plain and simple. I feel bad for Sakure. As much as I disliked her throughout the series, she earned my respect with Kaguya. 

But even when I didn't like her, I never thought she deserved this.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 26, 2014)

Plague said:


> Doesn't anyone else feel bad for Sakura here? Think about someone you love so much that it hurts, and then they stab you (well, in a Genjutsu but still) and ridicule you.
> 
> Sasuke is mean. Plain and simple. I feel bad for Sakure. As much as I disliked her throughout the series, she earned my respect with Kaguya.
> 
> But even when I didn't like her, I never thought she deserved this.



Part of why some people look at is as abusive.


----------



## Tayimus (Sep 26, 2014)

Can someone please put together the oh so great picture of Sasuke helping Sakura a few chapters back with the picture of him impaling her in this chapter?  The disparity is hilarious.  

But really, every shipper needs to understand that in this series, the pairings get teased and baited to Hell and back.  It's no use debating a positive or negative scene cause the opposite will be coming soon enough


----------



## Bellville (Sep 26, 2014)

Plague said:


> Doesn't anyone else feel bad for Sakura here? Think about someone you love so much that it hurts, and then they stab you (well, in a Genjutsu but still) and ridicule you.
> 
> Sasuke is mean. Plain and simple. I feel bad for Sakure. As much as I disliked her throughout the series, she earned my respect with Kaguya.
> 
> But even when I didn't like her, I never thought she deserved this.



I feel bad for how poorly she is written. I don't feel bad for her being hurt by her baseless feelings once again after it has been plain as day for a LONG time that Sasuke isn't a prince charming.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Sep 26, 2014)

how do i love thee? let me count the ways.... - haruno sakura to uchiha sasuke



how does ss fail? let me count the ways...


----------



## Scila9 (Sep 26, 2014)

Sage said:


> Is it because he cares more about his image of how others perceive him and doesn't want them to think he is capable of loving someone.... that he'd rather ridicule Sakura to others than hint at the possibility he might like her?... Awwwww lol



I will never understand how anyone thinks this. 

Yes, it's all an act because he doesn't want them to think he cares. He has to keep up his aloof and pragmatic appearance... cuz Sasuke's always been the type to really worry about how others percieve him, yeah?

Right.

Sauce hasn't given a shit how others percieve him since his father.



Bellville said:


> I feel bad for how poorly she is written. I don't feel bad for her being hurt by her *baseless feelings* once again after it has been plain as day for a LONG time that Sasuke isn't a prince charming.



Baseless. With this being confirmed I have lost any shred of the sympathy I had for Sakura's tragically one-sided love. There is legit no reason.

Arbitrary. From Chapter 3 to 693. It's still arbitrary. Oh Sakura.


----------



## CtrlAltPwn (Sep 26, 2014)

Sage said:


> If SS believes Sasuke doesn't want Sakura to know how much he loves her and that's why he has to knock her out...
> 
> Then.. why... the... fuck.. did he continue mocking and ridiculing her AFTER she was unconscious!?!? what purpose did this serve to convince _Sakura_ who couldn't hear any of this?...


Yeah, this baffles me too. I honestly think most of them are dyslexic and aren't comprehending what they read. 



Selina Kyle said:


> how do i love thee? let me count the ways.... - haruno sakura to uchiha sasuke
> 
> 
> 
> how does ss fail? let me count the ways...



fingers crossed, 3rd try must be the charm!


----------



## Dillinger (Sep 26, 2014)

No pairing is anywhere near healthy or interesting at this point. If Sakura still loves Sasuke, there's about zero hope for NaruSaku. If Naruto convinces Sasuke to repent and he magically becomes interested in Sakura after multiple murder attempts and out right declarations for her to fuck right off, it seems like the least satisfying pairing wrap up anyone could imagine. Team 7 as a whole is such a horrendous example of 'bonds' it's hilarious that the relationship is the poster child of teamwork for the manga. What a riot.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Sep 26, 2014)

CtrlAltPwn said:


> Yeah, this baffles me too. I honestly think most of them are dyslexic and aren't comprehending what they read. : )



i fear something much worse than dyslexia.... 


fingers crossed that most of them are bad trolls


----------



## CtrlAltPwn (Sep 26, 2014)

Dillinger said:


> No pairing is anywhere near healthy or interesting at this point. If Sakura still loves Sasuke, there's about zero hope for NaruSaku. If Naruto convinces Sasuke to repent and he magically becomes interested in Sakura after multiple murder attempts and out right declarations for her to fuck right off, it seems like the least satisfying pairing wrap up anyone could imagine. Team 7 as a whole is such a horrendous example of 'bonds' it's hilarious that the relationship is the poster child of teamwork for the manga. What a riot.



Seems to me that if SasuSaku is to happen it will needs the desperate help of Naruto to convince Sasuke to open his heart to Sakura. Nothing Sakura says or does herself will make Sasuke love her.

If NaruSaku is to happen it will need the desperate help of Sasuke to convince Sakura to open her heart to Naruto (post redeemed of course). Nothing Naruto says or does will make Sakura love him.

Its given no matter which Team 7 pairing is to be canon, the third wheel is the most vital key for its succession.


----------



## Scila9 (Sep 26, 2014)

Dillinger said:


> No pairing is anywhere near healthy or interesting at this point. If Sakura still loves Sasuke, there's about zero hope for NaruSaku. If Naruto convinces Sasuke to repent and he magically becomes interested in Sakura after multiple murder attempts and out right declarations for her to fuck right off, it seems like the least satisfying pairing wrap up anyone could imagine. Team 7 as a whole is such a horrendous example of 'bonds' it's hilarious that the relationship is the poster child of teamwork for the manga. What a riot.



Pretty much. 

Kishi warned us all. He said he wasn't good at romance or writing women. Some of us, my self included, just continued blindly hoping for something more from Sakura.
*
"Naruto convinces Sasuke to repent and he magically becomes interested in Sakura after multiple murder attempts and out right declarations for her to fuck right off"*

Yeah, seeing it written out like that it sounds legit.

Not even kidding. With all the bullshit we've been fed this entire war, this sounds plausible.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 26, 2014)

These simply awful messages that Kishi sends through his writing that "Love doesn't need a reason" has to be among the worst.


----------



## Plague (Sep 26, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> These simply awful messages that Kishi sends through his writing that "Love doesn't need a reason" has to be among the worst.



well, to be fair, that's technically not completely inaccurate


----------



## Dillinger (Sep 26, 2014)

Love usually doesn't need a reason. It's random and uncontrollable. However, after the first couple times of the person I love shoving an arm through my chest, my feel good would be fading faster then fuck.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Sep 26, 2014)

after reading through the pairing thread... 

i wuz liek. wut. 

well, that's the typical response from reading pairing shit... but,

there are some ppl who actually think that sasnar is the besto answer in regards to all pairing


lul i dun evn 


therapy, therapy evrywerr





Dillinger said:


> Love usually doesn't need a reason. It's random and uncontrollable. However, after the first couple times of the person I love shoving an arm through my chest, my feel good would be fading faster then fuck.



that would be infatuation.


----------



## Kakugo (Sep 26, 2014)

CuteJuubi said:


> SasuSaku shippers sail stronger still:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



ROFL dang... what gems these are.


----------



## Dillinger (Sep 26, 2014)

Love, infatuation...    People like to separate all that, but they fade into one another so fast why bother looking for the border. I'm not going to anyway. Not today.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Sep 26, 2014)

Dillinger said:


> Love, infatuation...    People like to separate all that, but they fade into one another so fast why bother looking for the border. I'm not going to anyway. Not today.



looking for no reason in love is like looking for no meaning in life


ironic...


----------



## Pyre's Plight (Sep 26, 2014)

CuteJuubi said:


> SasuSaku shippers sail stronger still:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __





I don't understand why any of you guys are getting upset at these posts. This stuff is comedy gold!

On topic, I can not support SasuSaku at all whatsoever. But I won't rain on the parade of anyone who still does. I already understand that I will not be able to understand how anyone likes that pairing while simultaneously being a fan of Sakura. Even weirder is that Sakura gets bashed for her part in this pairing. She hasn't done anything wrong here.


----------



## Mr Horrible (Sep 26, 2014)

Let's be honest here; if you asked someone why they loved you and their answer was 'I don't know', I can't say that'd be a very good sign .


----------



## StickaStick (Sep 26, 2014)

Kakugo said:


> ROFL dang... what gems these are.



oh wow.

This shipping thing really is a big deal for some ppl.


----------



## Dillinger (Sep 26, 2014)

There's reason for love, but it's all the same really. Infatuation as said. Attraction, compatibility...     Dude I don't even know now what my original point was. I do know I was speaking in a general sense. You spend enough time with someone, have enough joint experiences and are compatible enough, you're going to love them. Platonic or romantically, it's going to happen. It's the same formula for everyone. Until one half of the equation gives you a few wholes in your chest that make you rethink that shit.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Sep 26, 2014)

Mr Horrible said:


> Let's be honest here; if you asked someone why they loved you and their answer was 'I don't know', I can't say that'd be a very good sign : lmao.







and sasuke answered with a stab to the heart (at least, he tried to multiple times.)

thanks, symbolism.


----------



## Scila9 (Sep 26, 2014)

Mr Horrible said:


> Let's be honest here; if you asked someone why they loved you and their answer was 'I don't know', I can't say that'd be a very good sign .



Rather than I don't know, that's when they say "Do I need a reason?" with a sexy smirk and you guys get it on cuz no. No reason needed at all


----------



## Selina Kyle (Sep 26, 2014)

Dillinger said:


> There's reason for love, but it's all the same really. Infatuation as said. Attraction, compatibility...     Dude I don't even know now what my original point was. I do know I was speaking in a general sense. You spend enough time with someone, have enough joint experiences and are compatible enough, you're going to love them. Platonic or romantically, it's going to happen. It's the same formula for everyone. Until one half of the equation gives you a few wholes in your chest that make you rethink that shit.



what you said here contradicts what you said at the top.

ppl say that love is 'random and uncontrollable' is because they don't understand love. also, they don't understand infatuation, physical attraction, etc. at times too. 

izz kinda beyond our comprehension.


----------



## Dillinger (Sep 26, 2014)

Because it is random and uncontrollable. You can understand it and why it happens, you're still going to have zero control on who you fall for. Guarenfuckingteed.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Sep 26, 2014)

Dillinger said:


> Because it is random and uncontrollable. You can understand it and why it happens, you're still going to have zero control on who you fall for. Guarenfuckingteed.



lul there are different types of love 


you got one down, but you got no name for it yet


----------



## Dillinger (Sep 26, 2014)

I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make. I don't even know what point I'm trying to make. I'm going to bow out of this trap thread before half my night is gone attempting to explain human emotion.


----------



## Derezzed (Sep 26, 2014)

You know, as much as I hate this type of threads and pairing wars, i'm going to be kind of sad when they're over. For better or worse, they have some of the most amusing reactions on the fandom


----------



## Scila9 (Sep 26, 2014)

Dillinger said:


> Because it is random and uncontrollable. You can understand it and why it happens, you're still going to have zero control on who you fall for. Guarenfuckingteed.



This went somewhere I didn't expect. I doubt all of it's relevant to what you even put here, but this is where my mind went:
*Spoiler*: __ 



With the exception of people with certain mental disorders, everyone has control over their actions and their life.

Your feelings are an effect of those two things and your mentality. i.e. what you tell yourself regarding situations. Are you telling yourself there's a chance? Do you have hopes and expectations? Do you not? Do you tell yourself you're worthless or pathetic without trying to change? Are you rationalizing?

Your feelings don't control you. You can be who ever you want and if that's someone who is not in love with a person who has abused you in any way it is very possible to break away.

It's not a switch you can turn on or off, but it is indeed something that with a healthy mindset and true desire for change you can control. 

Telling yourself "I can't help it" (*cough* Karin *cough*) is one of the big no no's that so many people do. Pisses me off frankly. Especially if they're saying it in an attempt to rationalize their cheating asses. Don't even get me started


----------



## Tiller (Sep 26, 2014)

Dillinger said:


> Because it is random and uncontrollable. You can understand it and why it happens, you're still going to have zero control on who you fall for. Guarenfuckingteed.



lol. Son that's just lust. That's two people who if they feel that way just need to bang and get it over with. That isn't love. Love is all about choice, it's a damn constant struggle.

And if it's one person having feelings for another, and they don't get the message that the other person doesn't like them, then they need to grow up and move on with their life.


----------



## Scila9 (Sep 26, 2014)

Tiller said:


> Love is all about choice, it's a damn constant struggle.



and this


----------



## Tiller (Sep 26, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> These simply awful messages that Kishi sends through his writing that "Love doesn't need a reason" has to be among the worst.



It's one of the stupidest messages I've ever heard.

The only way that such a statement may make sense, is if a parent is talking about a child or vice versa who has done something horrible. I'm reminded of Stalin's daughter who talked about how horrible of a person her father was, and yet she cried at his funeral and missed him dearly, and this was after Stalin killed her mother! Why did she have a hard time completely hating him? Because he was her father. That simple.

When it comes to romance though it's no where near the same.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 26, 2014)

I remember a claim back in the day was if Sakura got over Sasuke, then it would ruin her character...


----------



## kyuubi (Sep 26, 2014)

Of course it'll ruin Sakura's character if she got over him.

Her whole character has been defined by chasing after Sasuke after all.


----------



## Tiller (Sep 26, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I remember a claim back in the day was if Sakura got over Sasuke, then it would ruin her character...



I think the opposite is true. 

Especially when it's written like this and followed by some sadistic mind torture just for kicks.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 26, 2014)

TheWebbstir said:


> This went somewhere I didn't expect. I doubt all of it's relevant to what you even put here, but this is where my mind went:
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...




Actually, she said "gambate" which is a typical Jaoanese saying meaning "it can't be helped".  It does not mean "I have no self control" it means "cest la vie".


----------



## Jena (Sep 26, 2014)

Dillinger said:


> Because it is random and uncontrollable. You can understand it and why it happens, you're still going to have zero control on who you fall for. Guarenfuckingteed.



This is true to an extent. Sometimes you do develop feelings for someone who is a complete jag, and you see them through rose-tinted glasses. But you also need to love yourself, and know when someone is trash and going to drag you down. It's one thing if someone has flaws that they need to work on (who doesn't?) but it's completely different if they have self-destructive flaws that they refuse to work on. You can still love and care about someone but not be with them because it's the best for you. And certainly as readers, we don't have to support an abusive relationship when we can clearly see it from the outside. Do I buy that Sakura and Naruto see Sasuke through a warped perspective? Absolutely. But do I buy that Sakura doesn't fucking know that he's going to drag her down? Nope, nope, nope. It's been shown in canon that she knows he's shit for her.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Sep 26, 2014)

TheWebbstir said:


> This went somewhere I didn't expect. I doubt all of it's relevant to what you even put here, but this is where my mind went:
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...





you got it

thanks for writing out my laziness for me


----------



## son_michael (Sep 26, 2014)

Bahamut Slayer said:


> Finally seen the light eh? Don't worry, you're not the only one. Well I got over this loooooooong ago.



Seen the light? I feel like Iv'e been immersed in darkness(too dramatic? lol)




> Just forget about pairings altogether if you want to feel all the better. Kishimoto simply plays the pairing card to his whim and whenever it suits the plot to his choosing. I mean come on, it's quite obvious. Neji dies, they hold hands. Next thing you know Minato asks if Sakura is his girlfriend, he just says 'yeah' just because her behavior is more like Kushina and we have that typical 'Ah, scary.'



Only supporting SHika Temari, and I'll be happy for Naruto and Hinata if he learns to love her.









> Congratulations.



thanks..I guess





Tayimus said:


> I think a lot of NaruSaku fans see that it's rather pointless to debate potential pairings as Kishi will bait as he damn well pleases.  Lil NaruSaku scene here, a lil SasuSaku scene there, and how bout a SasuKarin or NaruHina scene thrown in for good measure.  It's fucking ridiculous.  But what's worse is when he totally tears down a character for the sake of this pairbaiting.



Tears down characters and completely negates previous build up to w/e pairing he is working on. So many Naru Saku hints over the course of the manga, since even before the promise of a lifetime...they all amount to nothing now.  



> And no character gets hit harder than Sakura and I just don't fucking get Kishi's determination in making this character look as bad as possible.  I mean, I used to be a NaruHina Shipper waaaay back when I first started watching (yeah, I watched the Part 1 of the anime before doubling back to read the manga), but I switched to NaruSaku cause I just liked how Naruto liked Sakura and wanted to make her happy regardless of his own feelings.  But fuck it if Sakura even deserves this at this point.  I'm at the point where I starting to wonder if I even want this character to even have a happy ending.  Why care bout someone who doesn't even care bout themselves?



Sakura deserves Sasuke as a husband, everyday she'll get a good smack and on those rare occasions she stands up to him? Impaled through the stomach with sasuke leaving and saying "heal yourself bitch". Actually the kids will come home and see Sakura bugging out in the corner and say "Dad, whats wrong with Mom?" and Sasuke will be like" Oh nothing, mommy's just having a nice afternoon nap" later on in life they will think it's seizures and eventually they will learn Sasuke puts his bitch in place with genjutsu torture. Sakura will become a stepford wife from genjutsu(Props to anyone that knows that reference)


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 26, 2014)

You people must learn to be like Sasuke with the SS fandom. Completely indifferent, just like he is towards her.



Pyre's Plight said:


> I don't understand why any of you guys are getting upset at these posts. This stuff is comedy gold!



Or you can be like this.


----------



## Mr Horrible (Sep 26, 2014)

kyuubi said:


> You only hurt the one's you love.



Sasuke has a lot of love to give.

I wonder if he pays alimony to A.


----------



## Corvida (Sep 26, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> I never said that his nindo was about getting the girl because he never gives up, it's something he added in his promise to comfort her. The promise is still all about his romantic feelings, but he isn't using it to score.


No-the promise is all about getting Sasuke back no matter back becasue Sakura was despairing-as she is now- and his nindo means never going back on his word.    Of course that he doesnt make it becasue of his romantic feelings and much less to score.




> They toned down? If so, why did he keep on with his incessant date requests when he came back from his training with Jiraiya?



As compared with part 2, and I?m speaking about the manga, not Yuckuaish fillers? like an 85 per cent.



> Yes, at that point. It doesn't mean he doesn't really love Sakura.



It only shows what his priorities are since the end of part one.


> He can take Sakura's feelings for Sasuke seriously, but still be a "vulture" if he also considers that she might have feelings for him. That's why he said that she's "sorta, something like" his girlfriend.




Doesnt add at all. He either respects sakura feelings or not.. The half assed date request seen in that  probatory light are not flattering at aall.



> Or maybe he would confess without considering that she might reciprocate, because he isn't really using the PoaL to score at all. Therefore, he wouldn't be a vulture, but would just want to move on with his life.


Iron land gave him the perfect chance to do it.,Next step will be stright parody, as by the way, Sakura has confessed. Again.


> Yeah, a character who said that "even he can tell" that he really loves her. Also a character that is aware of these "vulturing" date requests.



A car?cter that grossly misrepresented the situation and Naruto?s nindo and his onwn motives for chasing Sasuke and left Sakura thinking she was FV and she owed Naruto her romantic love. We spoken about that hundreds if times.



> Or maybe I should just say that the date requests shouldn't tie into any conceivable notion of his martyrdom.



As I always said-no love martyrdom for Naruto.


> [
> 
> He behaved that way because he knows his relationship with Sakura is complicated.


He behaved that way becasue he?s Naruto and was feeling he had to joke the thing off.

Or, as we can assume from  his final conversation with dad, he?s shaken by the latest things in his life and decided he?s only seventeen, women are crazy and whatever.This chapter shoudnt help at all.


----------



## emachina (Sep 26, 2014)

The big issue that I just want answered is "Why is Sasuke worth all this crap"? There is nothing redeeming about him, so much so, his own brother didn't even bother trying. He left it for Naruto.


----------



## 민찬영 (Sep 26, 2014)

> "I don't see what she likes about me and honestly, I'm not interested in her at all''



Exactly. That's a SS moment.


----------



## Tiller (Sep 26, 2014)

emachina said:


> The big issue that I just want answered is "Why is Sasuke worth all this crap"? There is nothing redeeming about him, so much so, his own brother didn't even bother trying. He left it for Naruto.



He isn't! That's what makes it even worse! It's just all so badly written. Their has been so little character development it's crazy.

Remember back when Sakura beat Sasori and for a minute we thought their may actually be some character growth? Back then most of us thought, "Hey look Sakura is really developing! We won't be seeing her crying and being relatively worthless anymore, waiting for Naruto or someone else to drive her storyline!"

Back then many of us no matter the pairing or lack thereof were only arguing about what she would end up doing. The SS argument was usually something along the lines of "She's going to show Sasuke how amazing she has become and guide him back to the light! She isn't going to be weak and helpless again like during part 1's ending!"

NS and RS more or less thought that she was simply trying to make up for her own failures before, and was trying to fix all the problems that Sasuke has been causing, thereby redeeming Team 7.

What do we have now? We have Sakura once again crying, being uselessly on the sidelines, and needing another character (Naruto of course) having to fight for her.

Really Kishi this is how you develop a character? If nothing else he could have had her slug him once and tell him to stop acting like a jackass who jumps straight to the "kill all the world leaders" option. That would have at least made her look  a little better then having her look like she is a doormat!


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## emachina (Sep 26, 2014)

Sasuke: "Kids sit down, I'm going to tell you an incredible story. The story of how I tried to kill your mother".
Daughter: "Dad, is this about the time you tried to chop her head off?
Sasuke: "No, that was our honeymoon. I'm going to tell you about the other time".
Son: "The time at the waterfall"?
Sasuke: "No, not that time either".
Daughter: "Was it when you were taking your chuunin exams"?
Sasuke: "No, not that time either. Are you going to let me tell this story or not"?
Son: "Dad, you try to kill her every other Friday, and twice on three day weekends. We've heard them all".
Sasuke: "But not this one...it was the summer of 2005. I was living in Konoha, and my entire clan was wiped out".
Daughter: "Is this going to take long"?
Sasuke: "Oh, you have no idea".


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Sep 26, 2014)

Son: but daddy, why do you love mommy?
Sasuke: I don't know son
Daughter: but you must have some reason?
Sasuke: well, the guy who draws our universe is a bit crazy
Son: so you married mom because that guy wanted you to?
Sasuke: I guess, I wouldn't know why I did it otherwise. Now, it's time for bed kids...
*kids look at each other*
Son: run! daddy wants to put us to sleep again!!


----------



## Dokiz1 (Sep 26, 2014)

Why many posts getting deleted when it was relevant to this thread?

...


SS fans at it again, I see.


----------



## lynxie (Sep 26, 2014)

Tiller said:


> It's one of the stupidest messages I've ever heard.
> 
> The only way that such a statement may make sense, is if a parent is talking about a child or vice versa who has done something horrible. I'm reminded of Stalin's daughter who talked about how horrible of a person her father was, and yet she cried at his funeral and missed him dearly, and this was after Stalin killed her mother! Why did she have a hard time completely hating him? Because he was her father. That simple.
> 
> When it comes to romance though it's no where near the same.



No.

Why I do agree we have a choice, I once decided to not follow my heart, so I know. 

Still there are loves you keep with you, even if they were bad for you, because love makes you forget the bad, and only let you see the good parts.

Not all loves will be like that, but I know some can struck you hard and they are the ones that you always keep with you.

But I doubt many people will ever experience such a love, and I can understand people don't understand it. 
So the arguments here don;t make much sense, because we all reflect on our own experience and how we believe how it should work.

I didn't even have many loves myself, I can still count them on 1 hand.

But some loves just can struck you hard, and they can be without reason. 
That much is what I know...


----------



## Tiller (Sep 26, 2014)

lynxie said:


> No.
> 
> Why I do agree we have a choice, I once decided to not follow my heart, so I know.
> 
> ...



Obviously you've never been married if you honestly think that. lol

Love real love isn't lust it's a struggle, a constant struggle that is mutual between the two people involved. It's difficult, and it's something that has to be worked at. You need both people to completely fight for it, if one person doesn't the whole thing falls apart.

Love isn't a simple feeling, it's a commitment, that requires both people to be completely involved in. There is no such thing as "one sided" love. That's lust it's a different emotion, and different state of mind.

When one person repeatedly tells you they don't like you, and attempts to kill you multiple times in reality, and in your very soul, that isn't love. That's some kind of sycophant nightmare.  That's what I know.


----------



## Bahamut Slayer (Sep 26, 2014)

You don't have to be married to know this kind of love in fiction wouldn't make sense in the real world.


----------



## Tiller (Sep 26, 2014)

Bahamut Slayer said:


> You don't have to be married to know this kind of love in fiction wouldn't make sense in the real world.



That is true. Point taken.

I don't see how it's working in the story either though. Honestly Kishi could have ended the chapter the same way by simply having Sasuke tell Naruto to meet him where they first fought. Could have skipped this whole thing. Instead we got Sakura once again being shown as the Naruto universe's doormat. It's just sad.

I guess it officially knocks her out from interfering with the boss fight... but doesn't her being beaten as bad as she was, and the two man characters traveling across two country's to get to their final fight stage enough?


----------



## αshɘs (Sep 26, 2014)

phew, read it all  some good stuff



the real anti christ said:


> I hate to add oil to the pairing fire but I was confused by the bottom left panel on this page.
> 
> What was the sfx trying to indicate?



Pretty sure that's just a transitional panel  Look at the following panel. He was walking away, then Sakura started talking, he then stopped, then he turned towards her.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 26, 2014)

Bahamut Slayer said:


> You don't have to be married to know this kind of love in fiction wouldn't make sense in the real world.



This kind of love does exist in the real world, and we have a few names for it; none of them good. So I am astounded that people not only idealize it, worse yet they sympathize with it.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 26, 2014)

*SasuSaku will become canon: here is why*

If you go back and read chapter 693, the dialogue is that if Sasuke cannot love *Sakura*, then he does not have the ability to love.  What Sakura did was selfish, but true to herself.  What it was portrayed as was Sakura herself symbolized love for team 7 followed by love for the world.  Sasuke responded in kind by stabbing her in the heart.  After that, Kakashi, a.k.a. the 6th Hokage (Danzo left their memory fast) who represents Konoha's (hypocritical) spirit and leadership said  This was after Sasuke compared Sakura in his thoughts to his family.  

Basically, Sasuke does not have a choice in this matter.  His opinion is invalid because Sakura, and only Sakura, represents love and being able to love others and having a family, etc.  Symbolically, by throwing her away, he is throwing all of that away.  

Regardless of logic and how you feel about the ship, that is where it stands.


----------



## lynxie (Sep 26, 2014)

Tiller said:


> Obviously you've never been married if you honestly think that. lol



Well I am 34 years old, and been with my husband since 2001, and we lived together since 2003... 

People can have different views you know... and we obvious don't have the same view.



> Love isn't a simple feeling, it's a commitment, that requires both people to be completely involved in. There is no such thing as "one sided" love. That's lust it's a different emotion, and different state of mind.



There is one sided love, I know, because I had experienced it in my past.
And I also experience true love, because that is what I have now, I know very well the difference. 

But I really don't feel difference in the feeling... 

My first love lasted for 3 years, and only saw him in the 1st year of those 3 years. 
And no it wasn't lust, I experienced lust also in my life, and that wasn't the same. And I have seen much better looking men in my life then him, but I didn't get the same feeling from them... 
While it is attraction, it is not much in the physical sense. (while you can be attracted by that also of course)

What makes it different is the experience (struggle), which hasn't much to do with the feeling. 
Getting butterfly in my tummy from my first love who I never kissed , or from my husband, who I have been with for 13 years.
That feeling is the same.




> When one person repeatedly tells you they don't like you, and attempts to kill you multiple times in reality, and in your very soul, that isn't love. That's some kind of sycophant nightmare.  That's what I know.



Tell that to the girls who get beaten up by their lover but keep finding excuses to have reasons to stay.

Love can really blind people a lot, more then most normal people can imagine. Love can also make you endure a lot more, then you normally can.


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## ShinobisWill (Sep 26, 2014)

Kakashi is saying how Sakura feels. That isn't telling him he has to love her, his point is getting across to Sasuke of how important he is to her so he can stop being such an asshole/trying to kill her all the time. Regardless of whether or not he loves her that way.

"You only need a reason to hate someone" is defending Sakura's reason for loving Sasuke romantically, not criticizing Sasuke for not loving Sakura romantically.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 26, 2014)

lynxie said:


> Tell that to the girls who get beaten up by their lover but keep finding excuses to have reasons to stay.
> 
> Love can really blind people a lot, more then most normal people can imagine. Love can also make you endure a lot more, then you normally can.



And you seriously believe that such a thing is to be celebrated?


----------



## lynxie (Sep 26, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> And you seriously believe that such a thing is to be celebrated?



Who is talking about celebration?

It is sad. but it does happen. Because I acknowledge this, I am happy about this?

I do want to see tears, but that is just in a fictional story, not with real people...


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 26, 2014)

lynxie said:


> Who is talking about celebration?
> 
> It is sad. but it does happen. Because I acknowledge this, I am happy about this?
> 
> I do want to see tears, but that is just in a fictional story, not with real people...



So, you like SasuSaku because of all the sufferings? That sounds a little warped. 

Why do you guys keep repeating that braindead mantra? It's a fictional story that touches on human concepts, relationships being one of them. So it is perfectly valid to question you guys on the basis of such. Not to mention it is only because of that are you able to relate to and/or identify such concepts as they exist in the story too.


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## lynxie (Sep 26, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> So, you like SasuSaku because of all the sufferings? That sounds a little warped.
> 
> Why do you guys keep repeating that braindead mantra? It's a fictional story that touches on human concepts, relationships being one of them. So it is perfectly valid to question you guys on the basis of such. Not to mention it is only because of that are you able to relate to and/or identify such concepts as they exist in the story too.



I don't want SasuSaku to end up together let me be clear about that. 

I love romance, but as soon as there is a couple, I get bored (most of the time).
Only a few seinen /josei manga keep my interest after they are a couple. 

Yeah I love to read tragedy manga's because I love to read about suffering. 

When a writer get me in tears I love it. 

I do read some very sweet manga too, I also need that to get some balance with all tragedy stories I read.

To me pain is a part of life, and suffering is very important aspect of the human being, it is because of that we can experience true happiness.

I embrace pain almost as much as I embrace love, it may sound stupid to some, but it makes me feel alive.


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## ceralux (Sep 26, 2014)

Sakura has loved Sasuke for almost 700 straight chapters. 
These "SS is dead" threads are getting old, and it's clear that once Naruto beats Sasuke, he will have a change of heart and he will realize that there is more to life than just his own selfish ambitions. 

lol, these debates are ridiculous.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Sep 26, 2014)

Pretty sure Sakura loves him enough to die for him even by his own attack >.>


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## Addy (Sep 26, 2014)

sasuke does not love sakura. it was established. 

naruto will *make* him love sakura via TNJ.

i hope you understand this, sara. 

her plea and kakashi's were baisicly "i love you more than anyone else. i am your number one fan".

however, let's be honest here, sakura is no different from karin, ino and the rest. ino and karin cried for sasuke as well. the only reason sakura will get sasuke is because SHE CRIED AND BITCHED THE MOST FOR HIM  

again, he does not love her. naruto will MAKE him love her.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 26, 2014)

Because he doesn't love her. /thread



Addy said:


> sasuke does not love sakura. it was established.
> 
> naruto will *make* him love sakura via TNJ.
> 
> ...



Or Sasuke will not love Sakura, which will push her over the edge and make her eat the fruit becoming the next Kaguya.

Making Sasuke responsible for the next big threat


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 26, 2014)

lynxie said:


> I don't want SasuSaku to end up together let me be clear about that.
> 
> I love romance, but as soon as there is a couple, I get bored (most of the time).
> Only a few seinen /josei manga keep my interest after they are a couple.
> ...



What the fuck.



ceralux said:


> Sakura has loved Sasuke for almost 700 straight chapters.
> These "SS is dead" threads are getting old, and it's clear that once Naruto beats Sasuke, he will have a change of heart and he will realize that there is more to life than just his own selfish ambitions.
> 
> lol, these debates are ridiculous.



Or just showing you're not keeping up with anything discussed here.


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## Lucky7 (Sep 26, 2014)

ceralux said:


> Sakura has loved Sasuke for almost 700 straight chapters.
> These "SS is dead" threads are getting old, and it's clear that once Naruto beats Sasuke, he will have a change of heart and he will realize that there is more to life than just his own selfish ambitions.
> 
> lol, these debates are ridiculous.


But what if, and try to follow me here, he doesn't? What if Sasuke, keeping in line with this consistency argument you're trying to present regarding Sakura's feelings, Sasuke does what he's been doing all manga and doesn't return her feelings? What if, and here's the crazy idea, Sakura moves on? What if all these negative moments are a build up to Sakura finally gaining some damn self respect and dignity and moves on with her damn life instead of holding on to these feelings that have gone nowhere and haven't done anything positive for her since the latter half of Part 1? What if when Sasuke says he is not interested in Sakura at all and she is an annoyance and mocks her feelings, _he really isn't interested in her at all and thinks she's an annoyance_? What of Sasuke does see "the light" and gains a change of heart but still doesn't return Sakura's feelings because he isn't romantically interested in her regardless? How does this not make narrative sense?


----------



## AMtrack (Sep 26, 2014)

What I find especially hilarious is that people genuinely believe Sasuke's darkness is the only reason he does not return Sakura's feelings.  He said it pretty clearly:  not interested AT ALL.  Never has been.  

Also Naruto is not going to TNJ Sasuke into loving Sakura.  He doesn't care about that shit.  His promise was to bring that POS back to Konoha.  An ass whooping and a body bag later:  PoaL fulfilled.


----------



## Tonga1 (Sep 26, 2014)

Lucky7 said:


> But what if, and try to follow me here, he doesn't? What if Sasuke, keeping in line with this consistency argument you're trying to present regarding Sakura's feelings, Sasuke does what he's been doing all manga and doesn't return her feelings? What if, and here's the crazy idea, *Sakura moves on? What if all these negative moments are a build up to Sakura finally gaining some damn self respect and dignity and moves on with her damn life instead of holding on to these feelings that have gone nowhere and haven't done anything positive for her since the latter half of Part 1? *What if when Sasuke says he is not interested in Sakura at all and she is an annoyance and mocks her feelings, _he really isn't interested in her at all and thinks she's an annoyance_? What of Sasuke does see "the light" and gains a change of heart but still doesn't return Sakura's feelings because he isn't romantically interested in her regardless? How does this not make narrative sense?



shh ss will kill u,

 i agree with u* move on* is the key, but idk, kishi is so patethic with the female characters


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## Rios (Sep 26, 2014)

C'mon, keep them pairings going.


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## ironblade_x1 (Sep 26, 2014)

Tonga1 said:


> shh ss will kill u,
> 
> i agree with u* move on* is the key, but idk, kishi is so patethic with the female characters



What is with people's fixation on the fact that she's female? 

Almost NO ONE in this entire manga has moved on. Sasuke is still the same fuck he's been for 700 chapters. Naruto is still the same guy with the same mancrush on said fuck. Kakashi's had the same issues for 700 chapters. 

I mean, apparently, the only guy that's changed is Orochimaru, and that's after 40 years of murder, backstabbing, horrifying experiments, and like 600 counts of child abuse. 

I mean what, Sakura's a shithead for liking a guy for 700 chapters, but somehow Naruto isn't a douchenozzle for liking the same girl for the same amount of time? Granted, she hasn't tried to kill him, but she's shown about the same amount of interest that Sasuke has in her. Don't even get me started on Hinata. 

Sakura's gender has nothing to do with her predicament. She's a teenager. I don't know how many teenagers you people know, but exactly 0% of the teenagers I know don't even REMOTELY have the ability to "move on." None. They're terrible at it. Everything is the end of the world. And they're all vindictive little shits too.


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## Rios (Sep 26, 2014)

ironblade_x1 said:


> Granted, she hasn't tried to kill him



In some countries slamming a guy hard enough to send him flying away with a severe nosebleed and white eyes is considered a crime you know.


----------



## Turrin (Sep 26, 2014)

Every time I see these threads I am always left completely unable to see why people think the decision rests with Sakura or Sasuke. Kishimoto won't give two fucks when it comes to having those characters have a random heel face turn into loving someone. The decision will come down to Naruto, and that's all there is too it. Since he still going after Sakura, unless this changes in PIII, the end game pairing will be NaruSakura, because it's what Naruto wants, and what he wants he will get, because that's all Kishi cares about. Just like the Rin/Obito/Kakashi stuff makes absolutely no sense, but in the end the Naruto parallel Obito got the girl.


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## Pocalypse (Sep 26, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Every time I see these threads I am always left completely unable to see why people think the decision rests with Sakura or Sasuke. Kishimoto won't give two fucks when it comes to having those characters have a random heel face turn into loving someone. The decision will come down to Naruto, and that's all there is too it. Since he still going after Sakura, unless this changes in PIII, the end game pairing will be NaruSakura, because it's what Naruto wants, and what he wants he will get, because that's all Kishi cares about. Just like the Rin/Obito/Kakashi stuff makes absolutely no sense, but in the end the Naruto parallel Obito got the girl.



Naruto isn't going after Sakura anymore. He just wants to bring Sasuke back because he made a promise to her and that he still considers him a friend/brother...whatever the fuck he views him as, it's not because he wants to make Sakura love him or something. That's creepy as shit


----------



## Revolution (Sep 26, 2014)

I just hope Sakura wakes up and has a different personality.  Not that I didn't like her old one.  I liked her kindness and awareness, but Kishi draws girls who only live for men and only change for men so at least we get something new


----------



## Revolution (Sep 26, 2014)

I just realize something!  

Kishimoto forgot that part 1 Sakura was actually immune to genjutsu as it would only strike on of her two selves...unless Ino killed half her self


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## Turrin (Sep 26, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Naruto isn't going after Sakura anymore. He just wants to bring Sasuke back because he made a promise to her and that he still considers him a friend/brother...whatever the fuck he views him as, it's not because he wants to make Sakura love him or something. That's creepy as shit


Yes he does. That's why he calls Sakura his girlfriend when Minato asks him about that; and why he references the promise he made to Sakura once again. Is that the main reason he wants to bring Sasuke back, no, but it is still one of the reasons. Also literally like 3 weeks tops have passed manga time since when Sai confirmed Naruto is still in love with Sakura. Nothing indicates that has changed. Can it, sure, but it will still be played off as Naruto's decision.


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## Lucky7 (Sep 26, 2014)

> What is with people's fixation on the fact that she's female?
> 
> Almost NO ONE in this entire manga has moved on. Sasuke is still the same fuck he's been for 700 chapters. Naruto is still the same guy with the same mancrush on said fuck. Kakashi's had the same issues for 700 chapters.
> 
> ...


Not everyone who says Sakura is pathetic about Sasuke thinks that Naruto isn't as riddled with issues for it too. 

Also, that's your personal experience. Maybe that was the case with those specific individuals. As a teenager myself I can say that 90% of my peers have never come close to Sakura's lack of actual dignity, common sense, and couth. Sakura is a shithead because she has a lame, co-dependent personality and attitude and her character revolves around the love she has for a guy who really couldn't give a darn about it. And she's always expressed this love in a pathetic way. Saying all teenagers have no ability of rational thought, self-control, self-awareness, or insight is just a shitty justification for why Sakura is a generally unlikeable, bland character with no real development in 693 chapters.

But that's just me tho


----------



## CuteJuubi (Sep 26, 2014)

I can picture Sakura singing Wrecking Ball right now.


----------



## Chabal (Sep 26, 2014)

ironblade_x1 said:


> I mean what, Sakura's a shithead for liking a guy for 700 chapters, but somehow Naruto isn't a douchenozzle for liking the same girl for the same amount of time? Granted, she hasn't tried to kill him, but she's shown about the same amount of interest that Sasuke has in her. Don't even get me started on Hinata.



He's also not making a fool out of himself in front of her like Sakura with Sasuke. He isn't begging her while crying and calling himself pathetic, he isn't hanging his head in shame and waiting for someone else to defend him when she crosses the line (when she lied to him in her confession he made her understand clearly he wasn't amused) and more importantly he has more goals and ambitions than just getting in her pants. So yeah, false equivalence. And even if they were comparable, Naruto gets a lot of shit for his obsession about Sasuke too.


----------



## Mr Horrible (Sep 26, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> What the fuck.



Actually I consider Lynxie to be pretty reasonable after reading that.

While reading manga to see sadness/drama/pain might be a bit weird to me, a story would be pretty boring without some of those elements and everyone likes different parts of things. Like I don't personally understand what's enjoyable about horror movies but I recognise that people do like them and it doesn't really say anything about someone if you do or do not enjoy them.

Anyway what I mean is that Lynxie seems entirely more reasonable to me than someone who actually thinks it'll be good for the characters involved.


----------



## Norngpinky (Sep 26, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Every time I see these threads I am always left completely unable to see why people think the decision rests with Sakura or Sasuke. Kishimoto won't give two fucks when it comes to having those characters have a random heel face turn into loving someone. The decision will come down to Naruto, and that's all there is too it. Since he still going after Sakura, unless this changes in PIII, the end game pairing will be NaruSakura, because it's what Naruto wants, and what he wants he will get, because that's all Kishi cares about. Just like the Rin/Obito/Kakashi stuff makes absolutely no sense, but in the end the Naruto parallel Obito got the girl.



That would have made more sense if Kishi showed us that Sakura no longer loved Sasuke and that she was actually ready to move on. He had a lot of opportunities with that, but he didn't but instead making Sakura still loving Sasuke. Besides, Naruto being the main character does not automatically equate him getting with any girl he wants. If that was his MAIN goal, maybe, but it it hardly is. 

Maybe he can duke it out with Sasuke later for Sakura's heart. 

Hinata won't be pleased though.


----------



## Radice (Sep 26, 2014)

ceralux said:


> Sakura has loved Sasuke for almost 700 straight chapters.
> These "SS is dead" threads are getting old, and it's clear that once Naruto beats Sasuke, he will have a change of heart and he will realize that there is more to life than just his own selfish ambitions.
> 
> lol, these debates are ridiculous.




It's funny how people is claiming SS death in every chapter. 
I think SS is dead since Kage Summit Arc. 

Well let's wait to the next SS death until their canonization.


----------



## Turrin (Sep 26, 2014)

Norngpinky said:


> That would have made more sense if Kishi showed us that Sakura no longer loved Sasuke and that she was actually ready to move on. He had a lot of opportunities with that, but he didn't but instead making Sakura still loving Sasuke. .



Half of the villains heel-face-turns would have made more sense if Kishi built them up better. Kishi doesn't do it that way. He has a characters change of heart happen all at once due to one grand gesture or just has them nonsensically act differently as was the case with Rin. 

Additionally it was never going to be Sasuke actions making her move on from Sasuke, it always would have to be Naruto's actions making her move on from Sasuke; and as of right now Naruto has not made his move, because he wants to keep his promise first. If Naruto keeps his promise and actually tries to confess to Sakura, and than she's still into Sasuke, you'd have a point, but that is not the case nor will it ever be. Ether Naruto will not confess to Sakura and move onto Hinata or if he does Sakura will fall for him. Kishi is never going to have Naruto fail after keeping his promise and actually confessing.



> Besides, Naruto being the main character does not automatically equate him getting with any girl he wants. If that was his MAIN goal, maybe, but it it hardly is.
> 
> Maybe he can duke it out with Sasuke later for Sakura's heart.
> 
> Hinata won't be pleased though


Unfortunately being the Naruto means it does. That's why Obito, just as the Naruto parallel, nonsensically got Rin.


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 26, 2014)

Radice said:


> It's funny how people is claiming SS death in every chapter.
> I think SS is dead since Kage Summit Arc.
> 
> Well let's wait to the next SS death until their canonization.


Yeah, you actually are somewhat right about that.

But maybe you should treat it as a zombie that gets repeatedly shot in the head.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 26, 2014)

Just realized something while posting in another thread.

Karin only existed out of goodness to him while Sakura, more then once, got in the way of his path. She was more of a hinderance then a help.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 26, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> Yeah, you actually are somewhat right about that.
> 
> But maybe you should treat it as a zombie that gets repeatedly shot in the head.



wow!  I love this quote!


----------



## PikaCheeka (Sep 26, 2014)

Revolution said:


> Just realized something while posting in another thread.
> 
> Karin only existed out of goodness to him while Sakura, more then once, got in the way of his path. She was more of a hinderance then a help.



Not sure what's creepier, the fact that you think women only exist for men or the fact that you think Karin was actually a good influence on Sasuke.


----------



## Norngpinky (Sep 26, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Half of the villains heel-face-turns would have made more sense if Kishi built them up better. Kishi doesn't do it that way. He has a characters change of heart happen all at once due to one grand gesture or just has them nonsensically act differently as was the case with Rin.



Nah, Kishi hadn't done the best job when it comes to a lot of his characters. But we're talking about romance among the main character, which I highly doubt it to be one grand gesture that we get Sakura --> Naruto. She spent so much time after Sasuke, that if she was to fall for another guy, it would definitely not be in a moment's notice or in a nonsensical act kind of way. 




> Additionally it was never going to be Sasuke actions making her move on from Sasuke, it always would have to be Naruto's actions making her move on from Sasuke; and as of right now Naruto has not made his move, because he wants to keep his promise first. If Naruto keeps his promise and actually tries to confess to Sakura, and than she's still into Sasuke, you'd have a point, but that is not the case nor will it ever be. Ether Naruto will not confess to Sakura and move onto Hinata or if he does Sakura will fall for him. Kishi is never going to have Naruto fail after keeping his promise and actually confessing.



Well, Sakura has all the reasons to love Naruto, but she still didn't. And if Naruto succeeded in his promise (which he will), Sasuke will be sticking around with his priorities better straightened out. If his hate was transformed into love (like it's foreshadowed), then there'd be even a higher chance of him opening his heart again instead of shutting everyone else out. So if Naruto still wants Sakura's heart, it will be at this point. But again, she has lots of reasons to love Naruto as she stated in Iron Country, but she couldn't even fool herself. 



> Unfortunately being the Naruto means it does. That's why Obito, just as the Naruto parallel, nonsensically got Rin.


And what happened if Kakashi died and joined the two in La La Land? Obito will go nuts again ;P


----------



## Radice (Sep 26, 2014)

What makes NS believe Naruto will  confess to Sakura and believes she would  love him  after see Sakura's confirming his love to Sasuke again? 
Naruto doesn't believe in Sakura's fake confession just remembering a few SS Flashbacks in Part 1.
Imagine now after seeing Sakura make a new love's confession to Sasuke.


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 26, 2014)

Radice said:


> What makes NS believe Naruto will  confess to Sakura and believes she would magically love him after see Sakura's confirming his love to Sasuke again?
> Naruto doesn't believe in Sakura's fake confession just remembering a few SS Flashbacks in Part 1.
> Imagine now after seeing Sakura make a new love's confession to Sasuke.


He has already expressed the desire to confess fully knowing what she feels about Sasuke. It's probably not even about being hopeful that she would return his feelings, but to just let his feelings known to her. 

Sai never told Naruto that he let Sakura know of his feelings, and Sakura never told Naruto about that.


----------



## Invictus-Kun (Sep 27, 2014)

So, NaruSaku has a chance now?
Since Sasuke just dumped Sakura


----------



## Arisu (Sep 27, 2014)

Revolution said:


> Just realized something while posting in another thread.
> 
> Karin only existed out of goodness to him while Sakura, more then once, got in the way of his path. She was more of a hinderance then a help.



Please Sarah, think... If you suddenly decided to go for revenge and kill many people and someone supported you in this by helping you. Would you be thankful for that after realizing what you did was wrong? I think I would rather appreciate the person who tried to stop me from doing a stupid thing like that not the one who supported me in it. 
Karin had absolutely no reason to hate people from Konoha but she decided to help Sasuke to kill all of them just for the sake of following him. Don't you think there's something weird about it? If You love someone, you will support this person in good decisions, yes. But when a beloved person makes a bad decision, she or he shouldn't be supported in doing bad things. It's just wrong.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 27, 2014)

Invictus-Kun said:


> So, NaruSaku has a chance now?
> Since Sasuke just dumped Sakura



Maybe.....or Sakura grows to hate both !

The Sage even shows Sakura on panel when it said that love turns into hatred !

Then, she would go after Sai !!!!


----------



## Invictus-Kun (Sep 27, 2014)

So much hatred of Sakura from Sarah....

hmmmmm...

I would glad if Sarah turns back to what she is before chapter 692


----------



## Radice (Sep 27, 2014)

Revolution said:


> Just realized something while posting in another thread.
> 
> Karin only existed out of goodness to him while Sakura, more then once, got in the way of his path. She was more of a hinderance then a help.




Well I can understand a Sasuke's Fan wants him to end up alone.
It's makes sense with his whole story

But dislikes SasuSaku or Sakura but at the same time ship a shit like SK.
Doesn't make any sense.
Sasuke and Karin haven’t even had a personal conversation, she doesn’t know Sasuke. Karin did nothing to impede Sasuke to become an criminal while she was by sasuke's side.
Not to mention Karin is a creepy and crazy character.

Karin's  obsession to Sasuke doesn’t benefit him in anything.
Honestly i prefer Sasuke's death than SasuKarin and i like Sasuke.


----------



## Invictus-Kun (Sep 27, 2014)

the sage?

He says that hatred turns to love, not the other way around..

He is talking about Sauce


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 27, 2014)

Invictus-Kun said:


> the sage?
> 
> He says that hatred turns to love, not the other way around..
> 
> He is talking about Sauce



Read the panel with Sakura's unconcious face on how love can turn to hatred.


I was mostly joking, but it would do wonders for Sakura's character if she stop romantically loving a dude who was never interested in her at all and mind raped her with him being cruel to her in a genjutsu.

Besides, Sasuke is indifferent to Sakura....he does not hate nor love her.

He hates Konoha leaders and bijuu....and possibly Naruto (a jinchurikki and obstacle to his way).  If anything, Sasuke's hatred may turn into love but not necessarily romantic love (unless Kishi comes out of the closet and admits he wants NarutoxSasuke to happen ) since it shows once again: Sakura is not going to be the one who redeems him, but Naruto will be the one with his love!!!!


----------



## Invictus-Kun (Sep 27, 2014)

yeah, but there is a panel, of Hago tnj while Sauce and Nardo jumps, Sauce will turn hatred to love.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 27, 2014)

And Naruto will be the one who will do it and show Sasuke the way (does not have to be romantic since he holds hatred only to bijuu and the leaders)?

And?

Edit:  if you are referring to Sakura, it was mostly a joke, although t would be nice for her to move on, at least. Even if she cannot hate him.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 27, 2014)

PikaCheeka said:


> Not sure what's creepier, the fact that you think women only exist for men or the fact that you think Karin was actually a good influence on Sasuke.



Are you talking about the real world or the way women are written in the manga?  Yes, Karin was created for Sasuke and even had a retcon to connect her to part one. Yes, women in the manga only talk about boys in their life.

Nothing creepy about it.  Just shallow and lazy.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 27, 2014)

Arisu said:


> Please Sarah, think... If you suddenly decided to go for revenge and kill many people and someone supported you in this by helping you. Would you be thankful for that after realizing what you did was wrong? I think I would rather appreciate the person who tried to stop me from doing a stupid thing like that not the one who supported me in it.
> Karin had absolutely no reason to hate people from Konoha but she decided to help Sasuke to kill all of them just for the sake of following him. Don't you think there's something weird about it? If You love someone, you will support this person in good decisions, yes. But when a beloved person makes a bad decision, she or he shouldn't be supported in doing bad things. It's just wrong.



Wait a minute here!  Sakura has every reason to be against Sasuke because she is a Konoha ninja.  Karin has every reason to be against Konoha because her village is or was an enemy of Konoha and other powerful villages that destroyed hers.  Sasuke is an ally against those people for Karin.  Sasuke went out of his way to get her and she allowed him to bit her and suck her energy out for survival.  Sakura wants Sasuke to be tied to an institution he does not believe in.  More then that, it is an institution that committed genocide against his entire family and covered it up and condemned their greatest ally against any political threat within the village of the Hokage's lifetime!


----------



## CuteJuubi (Sep 27, 2014)

Invictus-Kun said:


> So much hatred of Sakura from Sarah....
> 
> hmmmmm...
> 
> I would glad if Sarah turns back to what she is before chapter 692



She's a SasuHina shipper


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

PikaCheeka said:


> Not sure what's creepier, the fact that you think women only exist for men or the fact that you think Karin was actually a good influence on Sasuke.





Arisu said:


> Please Sarah, think... If you suddenly decided to go for revenge and kill many people and someone supported you in this by helping you. Would you be thankful for that after realizing what you did was wrong? I think I would rather appreciate the person who tried to stop me from doing a stupid thing like that not the one who supported me in it.
> Karin had absolutely no reason to hate people from Konoha but she decided to help Sasuke to kill all of them just for the sake of following him. Don't you think there's something weird about it? If You love someone, you will support this person in good decisions, yes. But when a beloved person makes a bad decision, she or he shouldn't be supported in doing bad things. It's just wrong.



I can't be the only one that finds it hilarious they suddenly decide to apply a sense of morality to this matter now.

How the hell are you guys gonna talk about what's creepy? Or what's wrong?

Come on. Have some self-awareness here!


----------



## Arisu (Sep 27, 2014)

Revolution said:


> Wait a minute here!  Sakura has every reason to be against Sasuke because she is a Konoha ninja.  Karin has every reason to be against Konoha because her village is or was an enemy of Konoha and other powerful villages that destroyed hers.  Sasuke is an ally against those people for Karin.  Sasuke went out of his way to get her and she allowed him to bit her and suck her energy out for survival.  Sakura wants Sasuke to be tied to an institution he does not believe in.  More then that, it is an institution that committed genocide against his entire family and covered it up and condemned their greatest ally against any political threat within the village of the Hokage's lifetime!



Konoha doesn't have anything to do with Sakura being against what Sasuke is doing. She's doing it to save him. She once said she can have her friends and parents in Konoha but if Sasuke were to leave she would be completely lonely. This suggests she thinks Sasuke is more important to her than Konoha. 
Karin didn't got an order from Orochimaru to kill anyone, once Sasuke killed him she was free to do what she wanted. Sasuke even said she can refuse if she wants to. But she went with it knowing what he wants to do without telling him even once what he's doing is bad for him. 
Sasuke no longer hates Konoha and doesn't want to kill anyone besides hokages. Means what he wanted to do before wasn't the right way to do things at the end. You think Karin supporting him in all of it is meaningful now?



Seto Kaiba said:


> I can't be the only one that finds it hilarious they suddenly decide to apply a sense of morality to this matter now.
> 
> How the hell are you guys gonna talk about what's creepy? Or what's wrong?
> 
> Come on. Have some self-awareness here!


----------



## Revolution (Sep 27, 2014)

Completely ignoring my responses?  



Revolution said:


> Are you talking about the real world or the way women are written in the manga?  Yes, Karin was created for Sasuke and even had a retcon to connect her to part one. Yes, women in the manga only talk about boys in their life.
> 
> Nothing creepy about it.  Just shallow and lazy.



Basically, Kishimoto doesn't focus on depth for female characters and you know its true.




Arisu said:


> But she went with it knowing what he wants to do without telling him even once what he's doing is bad for him.



What Sasuke has done is bad for him?  He freed prisoners from Orochimaru's cells and gave Taka a purpose in life.  He destroyed Danzo and avenged the Uchiha clan in doing so.  He resurrected the Hokages to stop Madara and save the Ninja alliance.  He now wants to change the world so what happened to the Uchiha clan never happens again, and you think it's bad for him?

k


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

Not really. With the credible evidence presented for example I can say you guys are massive hypocrites when it comes to the matter of SasuKarin. All of a sudden you want to talk about what is right and wrong? When shipping a pairing like SasuSaku? Both are complete shit, and are just as abhorrent as the other for the same reasons, yet you selectively decide when you want to apply a sense of morality, and cry "It's fiction!" to one and not the other.

That is grossly inconsistent. They are _both_ fucked up and wrong.


----------



## Arisu (Sep 27, 2014)

Revolution said:


> What Sasuke has done is bad for him?  He freed prisoners from Orochimaru's cells and gave Taka a purpose in life.  He destroyed Danzo and avenged the Uchiha clan in doing so.  He resurrected the Hokages to stop Madara and save the Ninja alliance.  He now wants to change the world so what happened to the Uchiha clan never happens again, and you think it's bad for him?
> 
> k



Yes, because he's suffering from all that has happened. He had to cut himself from his bonds and went this path just to find out he wasn't doing it the right way at the end. Of course Sasuke is a good person at heart which many times show when he does something. But his revenge clouded this good person that he once was and it's destroying him. If he won't stop it will destroy him completely, he won't ever reach happiness. He even knows himself he won't ever be happy. I don't want that for him even if he wants it. Because he's my favorite character in this whole series.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 27, 2014)




----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

A natural response when you have no argument.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 27, 2014)

Having an argument or not having is the same with you tbh, so why bother constructing one to begin with?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Having an argument or not having is the same with you tbh, so why bother constructing one to begin with?



You're only making excuses for your own ineptitude here, like a lot of you tend to do.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 27, 2014)

Arisu said:


> Yes, because he's suffering from all that has happened. He had to cut himself from his bonds and went this path just to find out he wasn't doing it the right way at the end.



First off, Itachi forced Sasuke to follow the path of hatred or face lifelong torment at his hands and NO ONE IN KONOHA WOULD HELP SASUKE!  (cue panels of Kakashi tying Sasuke to a tree only to give Shikamaru a full team squad)

After finally defeating Itachi on his own terms he learns that *Itachi was actually a pawn in Konoha's power game!* 




Arisu said:


> But his revenge clouded this good person that he once was and it's destroying him.



Sasuke: True, I once wished for destruction but now I see that what is destroyed can be rebuilt, so I will create a revolution to free the world from darkness.



Arisu said:


> If he won't stop it will destroy him completely, he won't ever reach happiness. He even knows himself he won't ever be happy. I don't want that for him even if he wants it. Because he's my favorite character in this whole series.



Who gives a shit?  No one in his family can ever experience happiness so why should he?  The best he can do is make sure future generations don't have to live like that. _That_ is true happiness for Sasuke.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

When confronted with the flaws of your pairing, SasuSaku, there is one noted response you all give: "IT'S FICTION" as if no one can make a judgment of what's wrong or right in regards to it, or that this somehow negates the fact that a human being made this with the intent of expressing human concepts; not an alien with a blue and orange morality.

Yet when SasuKarin is the matter being discussed, or SasuNaru, suddenly you guys want to make arguments directly pertaining to morality, when you previously screamed like banshees that such arguments are not valid in regard to your own pairing. That is blatantly hypocritical.

How the hell can people that support a pairing like SasuSaku talk about what's right or wrong with a pairing like SasuKarin when you both ship virtually the same thing with the same idea behind it?


----------



## Revolution (Sep 27, 2014)

:rude  

Seto Kaiba   Ch1p
Sasuke  Sakura​


----------



## Selina Kyle (Sep 27, 2014)

Invictus-Kun said:


> Since Sasuke just dumped Sakura



since when did sasuke ever date sakura to be able to dump her


----------



## Kusa (Sep 27, 2014)

Revolution said:


> :rude
> 
> Seto Kaiba   Ch1p
> Sasuke  Sakura​



Wtf


----------



## ch1p (Sep 27, 2014)

She's throwing a tamtrum over the neg she got in the past hour.


----------



## Jin-E (Sep 27, 2014)

At first i kinda liked Sasuke/Sakura and it was the only Team 7 pairing i could remotely accept. They did have some moments in Part 1 that was enjoyable, particulary the moment in the Forrest of Death where Sasuke went apeshit at the thought of Sakura being hurt and her subsequent cooldown hug.

But now? No. i don't know how anybody can ship it at this point if you have even the slightest milligram of concern for Sakura's character. He's hurt her to such an extent that them hooking up later would be extremely jarring and awkward. Forgiveness is a major theme in this manga, but that's taking it a step to far. I'd like Sasuke to reconnect his bond with her(and Kakashi) sure, but only in a platonic sense.

Atleast the Naruto&Sasuke bond is based on rivalry and them "talking with their fists". That factor is obviously missing in regards to Sakura.


----------



## Arisu (Sep 27, 2014)

Revolution said:


> First off, Itachi forced Sasuke to follow the path of hatred or face lifelong torment at his hands and NO ONE IN KONOHA WOULD HELP SASUKE!  (cue panels of Kakashi tying Sasuke to a tree only to give Shikamaru a full team squad)
> 
> After finally defeating Itachi on his own terms he learns that *Itachi was actually a pawn in Konoha's power game!*



Sasuke decided to follow this path himself. Sure Itachi caused this but he didn't shove a gun at his head and ordered him to do it. 



> Sasuke: True, I once wished for destruction but now I see that what is destroyed can be rebuilt, so I will create a revolution to free the world from darkness.



We talked about it in Sasuke FC once. That revolution idea isn't any better than the previous one. He still wants to kill people. If he does, families of those people will look for revenge and the cycle of hatred will continue. All Sasuke will have to do is fight and protect himself. And when he dies no one will take over his revolution idea. Even if he had a family they would be in grave danger all the time. Which will turn Sasuke to the point he was at the beginning. 




> Who gives a shit?  No one in his family can ever experience happiness so why should he?  The best he can do is make sure future generations don't have to live like that. _That_ is true happiness for Sasuke.



I give a shit. Just because his family experienced something bad doesn't mean he has to go through the same shit. Wouldn't it be better if he could grasp hapiness just as Itachi wanted and sacrificed himself for?
Future generations will experience the same shit, because the cycle of hatred will continue. Revolution won't change anything.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 27, 2014)

Arisu said:


> Sasuke decided to follow this path himself. Sure Itachi caused this but he didn't shove a gun at his head and ordered him to do it.



As "gun" do you mean "arms"? Itachi did exactly that.  He broke his wrist, destroyed his ribs, and destroyed his brain with 24 hours of watching his family die and hearing over and over again "Despise me, hate me, live miserably and then when you have the same eyes as me, come to me"  so yeah, he kind of did but with physical and psychological torture instead of a prop gun.



Arisu said:


> That revolution idea isn't any better than the previous one. He still wants to kill people. If he does, families of those people will look for revenge and the cycle of hatred will continue. All Sasuke will have to do is fight and protect himself. And when he dies no one will take over his revolution idea. Even if he had a family they would be in grave danger all the time. Which will turn Sasuke to the point he was at the beginning.


  We are finally going to learn what Sasuke's Revolution is.  From there a fight between him and Naruto should end in a compromise.



Arisu said:


> I give a shit. Just because his family experienced something bad doesn't mean he has to go through the same shit. Wouldn't it be better if he could grasp happiness just as Itachi wanted and sacrificed himself for?


I don't remember Itachi wanting any happiness for Sasuke . . . at all.


Also, if the world does not have a revolution, it's going to be the same warring village mission routine again.


----------



## Mr Horrible (Sep 27, 2014)

Jin-E said:


> Atleast the Naruto&Sasuke bond is based on rivalry and them "talking with their fists". That factor is obviously missing in regards to Sakura.



Well it's not for lack of trying on Sasuke's part.


----------



## Arya Stark (Sep 27, 2014)

_Stop judging a fiction work by your own moral codes. _It's no different than hardcore Christians claiming Harry Potter is evil.
You have to make an argument by the standards of that universe's moral laws. In which Naruto is a manga where Rin accepted a MASS MURDERER with open arms. Naruto is clamoring for Sasuke AS MUCH AS (maybe even moreso) Sakura. 

People can enjoy something very flawed in fiction because DUH, it's fiction. 

Game of Thrones is full with rapists and murderers does it make people love those characters less? Let's say someone who enjoy's Jaime Lannister's character in books/show, does it make him approving i*c*st relationships? Enough with this bullshit.

You can say "That's fucked up." And you have all the rights for that. But you can't INSULT people _who don't think like you._ 



Revolution said:


> Karin only existed out of goodness to him while Sakura, more then once, got in the way of his path. She was more of a hinderance then a help.





Yea, Sakura is hindrance... _to his evil plans._

Get a fucking grip Sarah.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> _Stop judging a fiction work by your own moral codes. _It's no different than hardcore Christians claiming Harry Potter is evil.
> 
> You have to make an argument by the standards of that universe's moral laws. In which Naruto is a manga where Rin accepted a MASS MURDERER with open arms. Naruto is clamoring for Sasuke AS MUCH AS (maybe even moreso) Sakura.
> 
> ...



One, this is a stupid thing to say. Second, this is a stupid comparison.

First. It's a stupid thing to say because the only way a reader is able to recognize the nature of events, developments, and actions in a story and its characters is based on how these concepts exist in life. I don't know how is it so hard for some people to grasp this.

Second. Your argument is moronic, because the author in this case is explicitly trying to convey actual themes and concepts that exist in humanity. He doesn't define them, he attempts to portray them faithfully enough so that they appeal to the reader. The standards that we hold will always apply, and they will apply to any other story you read. 

Yes, Rin welcomed a mass-murderer with open arms. Redundant to state. Does that mean the reader will find it a palatable development? Absolutely not. Have you at all been keeping up with the common criticisms of Naruto in particular? If you did, you would know that one notable is its *failed aesops.* I've already laid it out for you, so it should be easy to figure out why that criticism is so common.

Furthermore, the problem comes when one attempts to idealize those matters which have undeniably unhealthy aspects to them. Don't try to tell people that Jaime/Cersei is an ideal relationship because that is exactly what shippers try to do with their favored pair. It appeals to them, or otherwise they'd never be fans of it; they make fanarts, arguments in favor of the respective relationship, and claims on why it exhibits the virtues of what makes or would make an ideal relationship. When you do that with relationships which strongly exhibit traits that we know to be unhealthy, it is perfectly valid to question the person on it. 

If it's too hard to understand I'll make it really simple, it's the same reason a reviewer would look at a book like Twilight and come to the conclusion the the relationship between the two main characters is twisted and unhealthy, as it reflects traits of twisted and unhealthy relationships. With that, it is also why many are disturbed that a number of readers find it an appealing romance. 

Since this goes over some people's heads: 

Naruto is a story written by a human being, that expresses human concepts. It is by appealing to the sensibilities of individuals and how these concepts exist in reality that an author is able to resonate his messages with a reader and elicit an emotional response. The cry of 'it's fiction' is the most braindead statement to make because it exhibits a lack of basic understanding on this. 

As pertaining to this topic those most notably being the concept of human relationships and morality in relation to them; because that is a concept strongly tied to how one idealizes the matter.



> You can say "That's fucked up." And you have all the rights for that. But you can't INSULT people _who don't think like you._



It does bring a valid question to their state of mind on the issue.


----------



## Kusa (Sep 27, 2014)

Enjoying a' fucked up' character ≠ supporting a pairing where one character is constantly suffering by the actions of the another and even admits to look pathetic.


----------



## Arya Stark (Sep 27, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> I'm not sure what you trying to point to me.



I'm trying to point out that* Sakura is aware of Naruto's feelings.* Sai also told Naruto that he guilt tripped Sakura. (chapter 474) Naruto is dumb but not that dumb, he knows Sakura is aware of his feelings hence the manipulation she did during failfession. Now her intentions are for another debate but we all know that her feelings were LIES, she was willing to make Naruto hate her because that's how much she loves Sasuke. 
The promise is not the main reason he's after Sasuke and doesn't mean anything romantically.
I can not understand which part of "I will bring back the guy you dearly love" makes NaruSaku canon. Especially after this chapter, it's made obvious to Naruto that Sakura NEVER even thought about him in the same way _once_.  He can only wish happiness for her which lies MAINLY in the redemption of Sasuke.




> You're grasping at straws.



Which part of "I'm 17 so I'm not very sure about how romance works" is grasping at straws? It was plainly stating that he was "confused". If he loved Sakura so-uh-oh-much he'd have said something in the lines of "I guess found someone but I still need time". Naruto never lies about his feelings. That statement is as neutral as you could get. I'm not saying he loves Hinata but it can be very easily seen that he knows love isn't as simple as he thought in chapter 3.




> He's simply not into her. Why can't you people just admit it already? That's why the girlfriend comment happened. Any notion of Naruto's feelings being "ambiguous" or he's moved on from Sakura doesn't make any logical sense anymore.



Yet the gf comment was treated as a mere joke and in his last speech to Minato, his feelings for Sakura are not even implied. What's more mind boggling is we get CHAPTERS dedicated to Sakura and Hinata's feelings which are crystal clear yet Naruto gets little panels, being treated as mere jokes. Which one is the possible red herring? Seriously?

His reaction, when Sasuke walked all over Sakura's feelings...was laughable. "Bad Sasuke bad! Why did you put her in genjutsu? Oh well we're alone now, let's bang." It's ridiculous.

Why can't you not accept that Sakura is desperately in love with Sasuke and Naruto's final speech very much confirms he's having second thoughts on everything.


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## TItroops (Sep 27, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> I'm trying to point out that* Sakura is aware of Naruto's feelings.* Sai also told Naruto that he guilt tripped Sakura. (chapter 474) Naruto is dumb but not that dumb, he knows Sakura is aware of his feelings hence the manipulation she did during failfession. Now her intentions are for another debate but we all know that her feelings were LIES, she was willing to make Naruto hate her because that's how much she loves Sasuke.
> The promise is not the main reason he's after Sasuke and doesn't mean anything romantically.
> I can not understand which part of "I will bring back the guy you dearly love" makes NaruSaku canon. Especially after this chapter, it's made obvious to Naruto that Sakura NEVER even thought about him in the same way _once_.  He can only wish happiness for her which lies MAINLY in the redemption of Sasuke.
> 
> ...




Sasuke was also aware of Sakura's feelings, didn't stop her from confessing twice, your point again?


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

Kusanagi said:


> Enjoying a' fucked up' character ≠ supporting a pairing where one character is constantly suffering by the actions of the another and even admits to look pathetic.



Yes.

I think it's a very easy thing to understand with pairings. 

Simply put, people often throw support behind relationships which appeal to their sensibilities on a romantic and/or platonic level. Those sensibilities only riled due to the reader processing the developments and circumstances between the two characters and how those developments exhibit the ideals held in the concept of what is an ideal relationship. There are a multitude of stories where this strongly applies. The author in such a case may bring up flaws of the relationship, but none that are recognized as "dealbreakers" basically events so morally irreconcilable that trying to have them overlooked would quickly characterize the relationship as unhealthy (ex: attempts on one's life, direct and intentional harm, etc.). 

On the same token, people will rescind or refuse support of a relationship because of a failure to do so. When the relationship has circumstances and developments that go against or even violate the concepts of what makes an ideal relationship, people become disgusted by it and refuse to support it. As they reflect traits which we have come to recognize as unhealthy; regardless of what the author's desire or intent may be. Because the author has failed to keep those relationships from avoiding the pitfalls of what we know characterizes an unhealthy and destructive relationship.


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## Arya Stark (Sep 27, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> One, this is a stupid thing to say. Second, this is a stupid comparison.





> Your argument is moronic




I wish I could make a proper debate with you without using these insults. Hand waving my arguments as "moronic, stupid, idiotic" shows how much of a difference my answer can create and that's why I find debating with you utterly pointless. Not because you are right but because you are tiring like a broken tape and I'm not here for that.



> First. It's a stupid thing to say because the only way a reader is able to recognize the nature of events, developments, and actions in a story and its characters is based on how these concepts exist in life. I don't know how is it so hard for some people to grasp this.



You completely ignore the point of "world building" where the author can assign the characters, moral codes from _his own perspective_ and* not* ours.



> Second. Your argument is moronic, because the author in this case is explicitly trying to convey actual themes and concepts that exist in humanity. He doesn't define them, he attempts to portray them faithfully enough so that they appeal to the reader. The standards that we hold will always apply, and they will apply to any other story you read.



Except you are reading a manga about PROFESSIONAL KILLERS in war times (ancient Japan maybe even) so whatever you expect from this story, moral wise is already drawn.



> Yes, Rin welcomed a mass-murderer with open arms. Redundant to state. Does that mean the reader will find it a palatable development? Absolutely not. Have you at all been keeping up with the common criticisms of Naruto in particular? If you did, you would know that one notable is its failed aesops. I've already laid it out for you, so it should be easy to figure out why that criticism is so common.



We don't find it yes. But the universe of this manga is beyond our control and it has its his own morals. You can CRITICIZE it but you can't INSULT (i'm stressing on the word "insult" and not "criticize" as they are different things) people who enjoy the world in its own terms.




> Furthermore, the problem comes when one attempts to idealize those matters which have undeniably unhealthy aspects to them. Don't try to tell people that Jaime/Cersei is an ideal relationship because that is exactly what shippers try to do with their favored pair. It appeals to them, or otherwise they'd never be fans of it; they make fanarts, arguments in favor of the respective relationship, and claims on why it exhibits the virtues of what makes or would make an ideal relationship. When you do that with relationships which strongly exhibit traits that we know to be unhealthy, it is perfectly valid to question the person on it.



I'm pretty sure any mentally stable SasuSaku fans with common sense doesn't pursue a relationship like it in real life and enjoy it's dramatic side by the terms of this manga in fandom.



> If it's too hard to understand I'll make it really simple, it's the same reason a reviewer would look at a book like Twilight and come to the conclusion the the relationship between the two main characters is twisted and unhealthy, as it reflects traits of twisted and unhealthy relationships. With that, it is also why many are disturbed that a number of readers find it an appealing romance.



But Twilight is based on OUR WORLD with OUR MORALS. Naruverse is completely a different universe with ninjas and stuff. There are reflections of our world - especially from war eras- of course but it has it's own culture that we don't have in real life. 



> Naruto is a story written by a human being, that expresses human concepts. It is by appealing to the sensibilities of individuals and how these concepts exist in reality that an author is able to resonate his messages with a reader and elicit an emotional response. The cry of 'it's fiction' is the most braindead statement to make because it exhibits a lack of basic understanding on this.



No story on our earth is written by an alien as far as I'm aware. And I know that most of fiction deal with human concepts by their own terms. You might not appreciate it but that's it.

oh thanks for the insults there by the way. it doesn't give strenght to your arguments btw.



> As pertaining to this topic those most notably being the concept of human relationships and morality in relation to them; because that is a concept strongly tied to how one idealizes the matter.



Which degree you took I wonder? Because in literature, anyone would know that work of fiction is reflecting only author's idea on the matter, leaving the reader to make comment on it. "Kishi has a fucked up grasp on relationships" Everyone agrees on this. I laso agree that it's bad writing all around since his aim to show us that it's (including Obito and Itachi) a pure, beautiful thing. But by the manga's world building, I see no reason why one wouldn't enjoy SasuSaku fanwork.



> It does bring a valid question to their state of mind on the issue.



Their choices in fiction =/= their state of mind, you still don't get that. People can both enjoy a work and still be aware that it's wrong and unhealthy.


I'll be ignoring all responds that includes insults from now on, just to make myself clear.


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## Arya Stark (Sep 27, 2014)

TItroops said:


> Sasuke was also aware of Sakura's feelings, didn't stop her from confessing twice, your point again?



And Naruto watched her do that in second, yes.

He's well aware Sakura loves Sasuke and Sasuke only, why would he pursue a relationship where he knows she will never ever love him?


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## TItroops (Sep 27, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> And Naruto watched her do that in second, yes.
> 
> He's well aware Sakura loves Sasuke and Sasuke only, why would he pursue a relationship where he knows she will never ever love him?




Just like Sasuke doesnt give a darn about her feelings since ever, still didnt stop her, your point again?


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## Arya Stark (Sep 27, 2014)

TItroops said:


> Just like Sasuke doesnt give a darn about her feelings since ever, still didnt stop her, your point again?



You do realize this chapter's point was that Sasuke is bullshitting, Naruto will redeem him and he'll be able to accept love by the end of manga, right? Also Sasuke made a throwback at 181 that only Sakura could understand and he bullshitted after she fell to genjutsu. "I don't see any reason why she would love me" confirms he doesn't see himself worthy of this type of thing which will change in due time.

And still it doesn't wash way the fact that Naruto watched her cry out for Sasuke, even after all these events. If she didn't fall out of love after Land of Iron Arc, she won't now.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> You completely ignore the point of "world building" where the author can assign the characters, moral codes from _his own perspective_ and* not* ours.



This is clear you didn't put much thought into your response.

What is the author? A human being.

Where is the author from? plant Earth

By what means does the author assign these moral codes? By how they exist or may have existed in reality. 

You didn't bother asking these questions evidently. 

Since Naruto specifically is a story which the author DESIRES to appeal to the reader's sense of values and morality, then he will have to adhere to such standards. Is it hard to get? He wishes for us to emotionally resonate with what he's portraying here.



> Except you are reading a manga about PROFESSIONAL KILLERS in war times (ancient Japan maybe even) so whatever you expect from this story, moral wise is already drawn.



Refer to above statement.



> We don't find it yes. But the universe of this manga is beyond our control and it has its his own morals. You can CRITICIZE it but you can't INSULT (i'm stressing on the word "insult" and not "criticize" as they are different things) people who enjoy the world in its own terms.



To go back to what Kusanagi stated, there is a world of difference between finding the settings and events entertaining and approving on them on any moral level. Shipping characters, particularly on the basis that the characters reflect the virtues of an ideal relationship is explicit moral endorsement of their developments and circumstances. 



> I'm pretty sure any mentally stable SasuSaku fans with common sense doesn't pursue a relationship like it in real life and enjoy it's dramatic side by the terms of this manga in fandom.



Why would they idealize it and present arguments in an attempt to make an appeal on its behalf? Why try to pick at it and point out whatever virtues they perceive it to have? Unless they are shipping it simply because the two characters look cute with no reasoning beyond that...then it is because it appeals to their concept of romance and romantic chemistry. 



> But Twilight is based on OUR WORLD with OUR MORALS. Naruverse is completely a different universe with ninjas and stuff. There are reflections of our world - especially from war eras- of course but it has it's own culture that we don't have in real life.



But Twilight has werewolves and vampires! Clearly not of our world! 

See, this is what I mean you don't think when making these responses.

Stephanie Meyer is a human being living on Earth, who can only portray these concepts and convey them to the reader, based on how they exist. Failure to faithfully portray the ideals relating to these concepts is what gets her story such criticism. 



> No story on our earth is written by an alien as far as I'm aware. And I know that most of fiction deal with human concepts by their own terms.
> 
> You might not appreciate it but that's it.



The success of executing themes, and appeals of a characters' circumstances and how they relate to others is dependent on how closely they can resonate to the largest group of people. It will be on their own terms, but the success of it is what ultimately determines if that is in touch with the rest of humanity. 

Again to refer to Meyer. She was making a romance novel on her own terms, but it was critically panned. Not because it was set in our world, no it had nothing to do with that; it had to do with the fact that she touched upon a matter of ideals we as human beings held and then failed to stay faithful to those ideals.



> Which degree you took I wonder? Because in literature, anyone would know that work of fiction is reflecting only author's idea on the matter, leaving the reader to make comment on it. "Kishi has a fucked up grasp on relationships" Everyone agrees on this. I laso agree that it's bad writing all around since his aim to show us that it's (including Obito and Itachi) a pure, beautiful thing. But by the manga's world building, I see no reason why one wouldn't enjoy SasuSaku fanwork.



Redundant statement. The expression that "Kishi has a fucked up grasp on relationships" is clearly indicating an understanding that Kishi is reflecting his ideas on the matter. Yet it is also expression that his idea on the matter is greatly out of sync with a large chunk of the audience. 



> Their choices in fiction =/= their state of mind, you still don't get that. People can both enjoy a work and still be aware that it's wrong and unhealthy.



Kusanagi's point, once again. It's one thing to simply enjoy something for pure entertainment value, or appreciate on that matter.

Shipping characters however goes beyond that for reasons I myself have already laid out.


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 27, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> I'm trying to point out that* Sakura is aware of Naruto's feelings.* Sai also told Naruto that he guilt tripped Sakura. (chapter 474) Naruto is dumb but not that dumb, he knows Sakura is aware of his feelings hence the manipulation she did during failfession. Now her intentions are for another debate but we all know that her feelings were LIES, she was willing to make Naruto hate her because that's how much she loves Sasuke.
> The promise is not the main reason he's after Sasuke and doesn't mean anything romantically.
> I can not understand which part of "I will bring back the guy you dearly love" makes NaruSaku canon. Especially after this chapter, it's made obvious to Naruto that Sakura NEVER even thought about him in the same way _once_.  He can only wish happiness for her which lies MAINLY in the redemption of Sasuke.


Sai heavily implied that the words must come from his own mouth...

As a matter of fact, Naruto is only aware Sakura knows that he likes her, Naruto is unaware that she knows of the true depth of his feelings, and even if he did, that shouldn't stop him from confessing himself once he fulfills the promise. Also, this manga has portrayed confessions from people that don't even expect to be reciprocated, they just do it to let out their feelings. Naruto might hope that his feelings get reciprocated, but the point of it would be to let her know of his feelings from his own mouth. 



> Which part of "I'm 17 so I'm not very sure about how romance works" is grasping at straws? It was plainly stating that he was "confused". If he loved Sakura so-uh-oh-much he'd have said something in the lines of "I guess found someone but I still need time". Naruto never lies about his feelings. That statement is as neutral as you could get. I'm not saying he loves Hinata but it can be very easily seen that he knows love isn't as simple as he thought in chapter 3.


You are grasping at straws very dearly. 

He is not confused, all he did was avoid the subject that was pertaining to girls and that's that. You're trying to place an interpretation of his feelings changing (in an incredibly weird and subtle manner) out of something that is entirely useless for this matter.



> Yet the gf comment was treated as a mere joke and in his last speech to Minato, his feelings for Sakura are not even implied. What's more mind boggling is we get CHAPTERS dedicated to Sakura and Hinata's feelings which are crystal clear yet Naruto gets little panels, being treated as mere jokes. Which one is the possible red herring? Seriously?
> 
> His reaction, when Sasuke walked all over Sakura's feelings...was laughable. "Bad Sasuke bad! Why did you put her in genjutsu? Oh well we're alone now, let's bang." It's ridiculous.
> 
> Why can't you not accept that Sakura is desperately in love with Sasuke and Naruto's final speech very much confirms he's having second thoughts on everything.


Why do people even use the "serious" portrayal of the girl's feelings as an argument? Did that stop Sasuke from saying that he is not interested in Sakura at all? 

Is comedic relief supposed to be some kind of reason to ignore any implications that he is still interested in Sakura? What kind of retarded logic is this anyway? He expressed interest in Sakura being his girlfriend, and no sane and rational person should question his strict preference to Sakura over Hinata from that.

Naruto does not have a piqued romantic interest in Hinata, he does not like her, *her love is still blatantly unrequited* because of that moment. *By narrative logic, he cannot be having second thoughts at all because of that moment, and he's going to eventually confess to Sakura.*

There is no red herring. It is called unrequited love.


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## Corvida (Sep 27, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Yes.
> 
> I think it's a very easy thing to understand with pairings.
> 
> Simply put, people often throw support behind relationships which appeal to their sensibilities on a romantic and/or platonic level. Those sensibilities only riled due to the reader processing the developments and circumstances between the two characters and how those developments exhibit the ideals held in the concept of what is an ideal relationship. There are a multitude of stories where this strongly applies. The author in such a case may bring up flaws of the relationship, but none that are recognized as "dealbreakers" basically events so morally irreconcilable that trying to have them overlooked would quickly characterize the relationship as unhealthy (ex: attempts on one's life, direct and intentional harm, etc.).


 
Have you even the tiniest notion of literary context? Or are you so obssesed with the self insertion idea that you will persist in mixixng ethics with aesthetics to the bitter end? Practically everone would agree with you in the poor execution of the messsage Kishi tries to convey but from the moment you try to apply  yuor moral code to an authro or a  a moral  judgement to the readers you completely lose sanity.





> [
> On the same token, people will rescind or refuse support of a relationship because of a failure to do so. When the relationship has circumstances and developments that go against or even violate the concepts of what makes an ideal relationship, people become disgusted by it and refuse to support it. As they reflect traits which we have come to recognize as unhealthy; regardless of what the author's desire or intent may be. Because the author has failed to keep those relationships from avoiding the pitfalls of what we know characterizes an unhealthy and destructive relationship.



Great then-Take the Lay of the nibelungs.Siefgried and Kriemhilde, presented as greatest love story ever till the glorious  hero is slain and the widow, mad with grif sacrifices all to calculated revenge. Siegfried is always presented as a perfect hero without blame and his marriage a perfect one, At one point, Kriemhilde has a catfight with sis in law and her feels "women must be taught to behave". Next day Kriemhilede gives to understand, with all the naturality in the world, that she has been  properly and bodily  punished. by Darling.

That was the feudal world.code

Yet they have the fondest parting ever. And one really emphatizes with Kriemhilde?s grief when hero reappears as a corpse and see her as atragic heroine .



Becasue we dont apply our moral codes to those of mid Medieval age.





> [Just like Sasuke doesnt give a darn about her feelings since ever, still didnt stop her, your point again?



Never taking in consideration  the motive of the girls confessions, for what I see. 

What is going Naruto going to confess for?


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## Elicit94 (Sep 27, 2014)

Corvida said:


> Never taking in consideration  the motive of the girls confessions, for what I see.
> 
> What is going Naruto going to confess for?


What the fuck? The motive behind Hinata's confession was all in her own personal interest. She even stated that she was selfish.

Sai's flashback shows that Naruto has been considering confessing to Sakura but doesn't feel worthy because he is unable to keep his promise. That's his own personal interest without any kind of productive motive, like Hinata's confession.


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## Hitou Nami (Sep 27, 2014)

always nice to see kaiba and others in denial, will make the end even better


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## Kusa (Sep 27, 2014)

The bullshit part is really stupid. He was not bullshitting, if he was and he actually cared about them as much as he should, *making him able to love again would be just pointless.* It's not only about him not accepting 'love'. it's that because of the hatred in his heart, he is not able to love as he should(atleast no one aside of his clan). Thats why Hogoromo talks about transforming ' hatred into love' and not simply about accepting love.

I also don't understand the 'throwback at 181 thing'. Could it be not that he called her annoying, because he thought  she was being really annoying in that moment ? Besides, he did act nothing like in chapter 181. Compared to chapter 181, he was actually being very cold when he expressed those words (just look at his eyes and his overall expression)also the stabbing part in the Gen-jutsu only establishes how much little, this is supposed to be a sign of him caring so much about her.


'I don't know why she is interested in me' does also not imply, i am not good enough for her. If the line did not make it clear enough, his words ' I am not interested at all' did. Why would he not be interested in someone whom he finds so great, that he thinks he is not worthy of her ? If you find someone so great, it's because you are  to some degree interested in that person.


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## -Ziltoid- (Sep 27, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> What the fuck? The motive behind Hinata's confession was all in her own personal interest. She even stated that she was selfish.
> 
> Sai's flashback shows that Naruto has been considering confessing to Sakura but doesn't feel worthy because he is unable to keep his promise. That's his own personal interest without any kind of productive motive, like Hinata's confession.



Yet Naruto gives not a single shit when Sakura confesses to Sasuke right in front of him. Even worse, he even supports her feelings for Sasuke.. Hell, NS didn't even get hurt or anything, it just got totally ignored 
Sakura has zero romantic feelings for Naruto. And he doesn't seem to be troubled about it at all. 

As for Hinata's confession, I truly do not know why to attack that one.. She jumped in, accepted the fact that she was likely throwing away her own life for the boy she loves, and then she says so.. Is it selfish? Perhaps, she likely considered the pain Naruto would feel to know that she would throw away her life because of him. I mean, we saw how he responded when he thought Pein killed her.. But to say it was all merely in her own personal interest? No. Just no. If she was as selfish as you want to make it sound, she would never have gone down there and just have watched Pein taking Naruto away.


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## Elicit94 (Sep 27, 2014)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Yet Naruto gives not a single shit when Sakura confesses to Sasuke right in front of him. Even worse, he even supports her feelings for Sasuke.. Hell, NS didn't even get hurt or anything, it just got totally ignored
> Sakura has zero romantic feelings for Naruto. And he doesn't seem to be troubled about it at all.
> 
> As for Hinata's confession, I truly do not know why to attack that one.. She jumped in, accepted the fact that she was likely throwing away her own life for the boy she loves, and then she says so.. Is it selfish? Perhaps, she likely considered the pain Naruto would feel to know that she would throw away her life because of him. I mean, we saw how he responded when he thought Pein killed her.. But to say it was all merely in her own personal interest? No. Just no. If she was as selfish as you want to make it sound, she would never have gone down there and just have watched Pein taking Naruto away.


He's already aware of her feelings for Sasuke, so I don't see the reason why he has to budge. I don't know why you are saying he's supporting her feelings for him, all he does is show his respect for them. 

She went down to try to save him, but the confession itself was all in her personal interest. It served no purpose other than to let her feelings known to him, the same type of action Naruto's confession would be for.


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## Turrin (Sep 27, 2014)

Norngpinky said:


> Nah, Kishi hadn't done the best job when it comes to a lot of his characters. But we're talking about romance among the main character, which I highly doubt it to be one grand gesture that we get Sakura --> Naruto. She spent so much time after Sasuke, that if she was to fall for another guy, it would definitely not be in a moment's notice or in a nonsensical act kind of way.


Obito was evil forever, but he changed in a moment due to Naruto's actions. That's just how Kishi roles.



> Well, Sakura has all the reasons to love Naruto, but she still didn't. And if Naruto succeeded in his promise (which he will), Sasuke will be sticking around with his priorities better straightened out. If his hate was transformed into love (like it's foreshadowed), then there'd be even a higher chance of him opening his heart again instead of shutting everyone else out. So if Naruto still wants Sakura's heart, it will be at this point. But again, she has lots of reasons to love Naruto as she stated in Iron Country, but she couldn't even fool herself.


Sakura also had lots of compelling reasons to not love Sasuke and Naruto has a-lot of compelling reasons to love Hinata over Sakura. The fact of the matter is Kishi has been extending the love triangle until the moment when Naruto keeps his promise and decides to confess or not confess. It was never going to be resolved before then despite all the characters having many reasons to change their mind. It's the same thing as Naruto still being a Genin, there are a-lot of good reasons as to why Naruto should be promoted beyond Genin, but Kishi is fixated on having Naruto go from Genin straight to Hokage, so he's refused to promote him until that moment. Or even the fact that Naruto not become Hokage yet, again Kishi is so fixated on dragging that shit out that despite Naruto fullfilling all the requirements all the way back in the Pain Arc, he still isn't Hokage, and he may very well have to wait even now for Kakashi to have his turn.



> And what happened if Kakashi died and joined the two in La La Land? Obito will go nuts again


Kakashi will just be their teammate again. The romance aspect was solely given to Obito in the end.


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## Sete (Sep 27, 2014)

Hitou Nami said:


> always nice to see kaiba and others in denial, will make the end even better



I shiver in sweet antecipation of whats to come...


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## Elicit94 (Sep 27, 2014)

Sete said:


> I shiver in sweet antecipation of whats to come...


That guy looks like a fucking lunatic


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## mayumi (Sep 27, 2014)

At this point wanting for SS to happen is just cause "have been supporting this pairing for so long" or "finally winning over another pairing" or "yes naruto got together with another girl, means SS is totally happening" or "go down with my ship"
as opposed to a good legitimate reason for it to happen.

No person in their right mind would want this pairing to happen.


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## sakuranonamida (Sep 27, 2014)

Jena said:


> This is true to an extent. Sometimes you do develop feelings for someone who is a complete jag, and you see them through rose-tinted glasses. But you also need to love yourself, and know when someone is trash and going to drag you down. It's one thing if someone has flaws that they need to work on (who doesn't?) but it's completely different if they have self-destructive flaws that they refuse to work on. You can still love and care about someone but not be with them because it's the best for you. And certainly as readers, we don't have to support an abusive relationship when we can clearly see it from the outside. Do I buy that Sakura and Naruto see Sasuke through a warped perspective? Absolutely. But do I buy that Sakura doesn't fucking know that he's going to drag her down? Nope, nope, nope. It's been shown in canon that she knows he's shit for her.



This, all of this.
Stop with this love needs no reason bullshit. Of course falling in love needs no reason beyond attraction but continuously going after someone who is bad for himself and for you isn't a positive trait at all and shouldn't be encouraged. It's hard but it's perfectly possible to move on from someone like that (I know I did it) especially if like Sakura you don't even know that person and never actually was in a relation with them.
But anyway, Kishi has a fucked up vision of bonds in general even familial ones though it's a bit more understandable not giving up on your family member than for someone you envision as your lover.
Whatever I've no single hope that Kishi will do things correctly and not have these 2 together in the end but if he does, remember that because something is made canon doesn't mean it's good, just like Itachi and Obito are terrible people no matter how many times Kishi has the main character wanking to them.
As a Sauce fan, I had hope he would die but seeing as he's in the 'canon' movie, it won't happen so all I hope is that he goes on a long journey around the world and doesn't settle in Konoha to start making babies. This whole 'restoring the Uchiha clan' through breeding like rabbits is btw nauseating.


----------



## Invictus-Kun (Sep 27, 2014)

So let's have the present pairing:

1. Naruto and Sakura/Hinata
2. Sasuke and Karin

Alternative:

1. Naruto and Hinata
2. Karin and Sugeitsu
3. Sasuke goes no one...


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## Pocalypse (Sep 27, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Yes he does. That's why he calls Sakura his girlfriend when Minato asks him about that; and why he references the promise he made to Sakura once again. Is that the main reason he wants to bring Sasuke back, no, but it is still one of the reasons. Also literally like 3 weeks tops have passed manga time since when Sai confirmed Naruto is still in love with Sakura. Nothing indicates that has changed. Can it, sure, but it will still be played off as Naruto's decision.



That was a joke type of thing, just because he called him his girlfriend doesn't mean she is. She doesn't have any type of romantic feelings for Naruto, she literally blurted out her love for Sasuke this chapter, right *in front* of Naruto's face. And Sasuke said he doesn't give a shit about Sakura and that he never was interested in this love business, he even mocked her for it. If anything this chapter has sunk two ships, SasuSaku and NaruSaku. There is no romantic connection coming from both parties, it's just one sided.


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## ShadowFox88 (Sep 27, 2014)

This thread has convinced me that SS doesn't support SS for legitimate reasons.

You all simply just want to come on the forum to say that you were "right". 

Oh, how reality is going to shatter for you in the next few months.


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## Elicit94 (Sep 27, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> That was a joke type of thing, just because he called him his girlfriend doesn't mean she is. She doesn't have any type of romantic feelings for Naruto, she literally blurted out her love for Sasuke this chapter, right *in front* of Naruto's face. And Sasuke said he doesn't give a shit about Sakura and that he never was interested in this love business, he even mocked her for it. If anything this chapter has sunk two ships, SasuSaku and NaruSaku. There is no romantic connection coming from both parties, it's just one sided.


The thing is, her feelings for Sasuke have absolutely nothing to do with her feelings for Naruto. By that logic NH was sunken when Naruto said that Sakura was his sorta his girlfriend, and it would be a zombie shot in the head when Naruto confesses his feelings for Sakura.

SasuSaku doesn't have anything to fall back on while NaruSaku and NaruHina do, because both pairings actually have previous moments that are significant to the development of the pairings.


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## Pocalypse (Sep 27, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> The thing is, her feelings for Sasuke have absolutely nothing to do with her feelings for Naruto. By that logic NH was sunken when Naruto said that Sakura was his sorta his girlfriend, and it would be a zombie shot in the head when Naruto confesses his feelings for Sakura.



She doesn?t have the same feelings for Sasuke as she does with Naruto. She holds romantic feelings with Sasuke and wants a relationship pertaining to that aspect, she hasn?t remotely shown anything of the sort with Naruto. Only connection Naruto and Sakura have is that of very close friends and team members, it?s only Naruto who may hold some romantic feelings for Sakura but even then this chapter didn?t indicate anything of the sort. He might even change his mind now that Sakura has revealed her true intentions so Naruto might just give up trying to reach something he will never get.



> SasuSaku doesn't have anything to fall back on while NaruSaku and NaruHina do, because both pairings actually have previous moments that are significant to the development of the pairings.



SasuSaku is gone down the drain, not that is already was with the fucked up pairing but what does NaruSaku have to fall back on? Using Naruto as the next best thing just because she can?t get Sasuke? Sounds like a rebound shot. And that would look so bad on Naruto himself as well because it wouldn?t feel genuine; it would just make him feel as a place holder and Sakura wouldn?t be happy either because it?s not who she wanted.


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## Elicit94 (Sep 27, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> She doesn?t have the same feelings for Sasuke as she does with Naruto. She holds romantic feelings with Sasuke and wants a relationship pertaining to that aspect, she hasn?t remotely shown anything of the sort with Naruto. Only connection Naruto and Sakura have is that of very close friends and team members, it?s only Naruto who may hold some romantic feelings for Sakura but even then this chapter didn?t indicate anything of the sort. He might even change his mind now that Sakura has revealed her true intentions so Naruto might just give up trying to reach something he will never get.




Naruto very obviously still holds romantic feelings for Sakura because of the girlfriend comment, and I see no reason why he would change his mind. Like I said, he would confess even if he doesn't expect his feelings to be reciprocated.



> SasuSaku is gone down the drain, not that is already was with the fucked up pairing but what does NaruSaku have to fall back on? Using Naruto as the next best thing just because she can?t get Sasuke? Sounds like a rebound shot. And that would look so bad on Naruto himself as well because it wouldn?t feel genuine; it would just make him feel as a place holder and Sakura wouldn?t be happy either because it?s not who she wanted


They would be happy if it's a good relationship, which is why I support the couple even as a rebound. I also still think it can happen while looking genuine.


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## Pocalypse (Sep 27, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> Naruto very obviously still holds romantic feelings for Sakura because of the girlfriend comment, and I see no reason why he would change his mind. Like I said, he would confess even if he doesn't expect his feelings to be reciprocated.



Does she have any romantic feelings for Naruto though? Clearly not because not once has she displayed anything of the sort and the recent chapter was the nail in the coffin. It takes two to tango you know?literally all of the big 3 pairings don?t have a clear cut romantic connection to each other. It?s always just been one party, never two parties coming together to form a romantic relationship.  



> They would be happy if it's a good relationship, which is why I support the couple even as a rebound. I also still think it can happen while looking genuine.



You make it sound like being a rebound is a good thing. Just "settling for someone" for the sake of settling isn't good at all. It feels empty.


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## Rios (Sep 27, 2014)

Umm I hope the NaruSaku shippers do understand that Sakura is reduced to the main hero's last reward while Naruto is reduced to a replacement love, right? I mean its certainly better than SasuSaku but put some salt on a shit and its still shit


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## Elicit94 (Sep 27, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Does she have any romantic feelings for Naruto though? Clearly not because not once has she displayed anything of the sort and the recent chapter was the nail in the coffin. It takes two to tango you know?literally all of the big 3 pairings don?t have a clear cut romantic connection to each other. It?s always just been one party, never two parties coming together to form a romantic relationship.


The scenario I have in mind is that he confesses without any expectation of his feelings being reciprocated and she surprisingly does. I feel like NS does have romantic development but she just prefers Sasuke ATM.



> You make it sound like being a rebound is a good thing. Just "settling for someone" for the sake of settling isn't good at all. It feels empty.


I feel like it wouldn't just be for the sake of settling though. It would feel empty if it just doesn't work out but I feel like it would.


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## Mr Horrible (Sep 27, 2014)

Rios said:


> Umm I hope the NaruSaku shippers do understand that Sakura is reduced to the main hero's last reward while Naruto is reduced to a replacement love, right? I mean its certainly better than SasuSaku but put some salt on a shit and its still shit



While this criticism seems more valid by the chapter (if NS is to become canon), I do think this type of thing is really dependent on _how_ a pairing becomes canon. As such I find it a bit silly to give a pairing flak for an event that has yet to occur.


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## Corvida (Sep 27, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> What the fuck? The motive behind Hinata's confession was all in her own personal interest.She even stated that she was selfish.
> [



Selfish forf risking her life ? -you are mistaking Hinata?s jumping in front of pain with Hinata?s subsequent confession. She didnt jump to confess,-her first words were-"I wont let you lay a finger on Naruto" no "Narutooooo, I wub youuuuu"  If Naruto hadnt asked why, what  would had happened?.And Sakura?s motive for her two exact  and mirrored confessions to Sasuke are simuilar outbursts-Sasuke?s benefit.-





> Sai's flashback shows that Naruto has been considering confessing to Sakura but doesn't feel worthy because he is unable to keep his promise. That's his own personal interest without any kind of productive motive, like Hinata's confession.


 

Except that he has his own motives for wanting to bring Sasuke back, not related to the promise anymore, the promise was never a main factor in his retrieval obssesion, his feelings werent even the main factor in the creation of said promise as he would have promsed to bring Sasuke back anyway, and frankly, after seeing how Sakura WAS DISTRESSED ENOUGH to force herself to lie romantic love to him on iron land country-and Guru Sai explained he penitential  "compensating" plan to him,  and after witnessing, now, Sakura?s  third love confession in this manga-can you still be pretending seriously that Naruto is going all  grim to  his Duel of the Fates....only becasue he STILL DOESNT FEEL LIKE CONFESSING  YET?


He had witnessed Sakura?s desp?ir-again-and doi you serioulsy think he?s thinking of confessing as soon as he throws the fagstard tied down in his bow?


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## Rindaman (Sep 27, 2014)

People can say what they want about one way affection , but Naruhina has had more (no matter how little or subtle) reciprocation moments than any of the main parings.  Idk why people choose to ignore it because they feel like Naruto is still in love with Sakura , or he hasn' t confessed Love for there to be something clearly brewing between the two.

Also LOL at Naruto calling Sakura his girlfriend being serious or a sincere moment.


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## Vermilion Kn (Sep 27, 2014)

Lol, people are still defends these buckets of shit parings ?

All of them are fucking pathetic. 

Sasuke: Emo bitch who needs a 50cal rifle shot squared into his skull not love. 

Sakura: Could this dumb hoe be anymore desperate ? She seems more than happy at the prospect of being a battered wife for the rest of her life as long as she gets some D from the popular kid. 

Nardo: King of all simps. Ffs kid you have god powers and world wide fame. Why does this kid put up with Sakura, who is as appealing as a moldy wooden plank ? There is far superior women out there in both personality and looks. Why does anyone want Nardo to settle for Suigesu's ugly twin sister ?

Do any of those people seem capable of a normal relationship to any of you ? 

Gebuz.


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## Rindaman (Sep 27, 2014)

Mind you, if Kishi is still trying to push a NaruSaku romance after all of this time, then it's just faltout trolling. I can't see how this kid could still be infatuated with Sakura after all of this time, especially with all of the Naruhina moments in between. Even without all of that Kishi has portrayed Naruto as at peace with Sakura's love for Sasuke , why try to pretend he's still hung up on her, if only just to add drama?


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## Vermilion Kn (Sep 27, 2014)

Hinata can do better too. 

She is hot,rich and has a loving personality. Any red blooded male would be all over that if given an opening. No doubt there is a man out there who would value her, leave Nardo to his simp/beta tastes.


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## CtrlAltPwn (Sep 27, 2014)

genjutsu or not, Sakura did experience the exact same physical pain of getting stabbed through the chest as if it were real. The only difference between her and Karin now is that Sakura won't have a physical scar to show for it but they both experienced the exact same pain of getting cut through their heart. People would really have to be in denial to think Sasuke held back in such an attack and didn't allow her to feel any pain.

I don't think some people are grasping this and simply saying no big deal it was just an illusion. It wasn't just an illusion, her horrified face is similar to Rin's, for Sakura it was real! her mind registered the attack as being real and made her body feel the pain, she would forever be scarred by this moment and she will never forget it.

Not sure if the moment is being repeated over and over in her head being tortured, thats up for debate but no denying by her expression she felt the cut. 

Thats fucked up, Sasuke gave the most critical and painful attack Sakura has ever experienced in her life both emotionally AND physically... even the beatings she got from Sasori never reached this level of pain scale... cruel madness. Its a horrifying feeling to get killed by the one you love, even if they patch things up, she will never forget this permanent nightmare Sasuke forced on her.


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## Kakugo (Sep 27, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> People can say what they want about one way affection , but Naruhina has had more (no matter how little or subtle) reciprocation moments than any of the main parings.  Idk why people choose to ignore it because they feel like Naruto is still in love with Sakura , or he hasn' t confessed Love for there to be something clearly brewing between the two.



With all due respect, that is some pretty deluded thinking. You really can't make that comparison when you take into account that Naruto and Hinata have hardly shared the necessary interaction time in general, yet alone anything to contextually suggest that there is something between them beyond mere comradery. Naruto has not once demonstrated to have even a sliver of romantic interest in Hinata, therefor implying that they share any mutual "reciprocating" moments is nothing more than wishful thinking. Also, we don't "think" that Naruto still loves Sakura, we know he does. He's reaffirmed it himself.



Rindaman said:


> Also LOL at Naruto calling Sakura his girlfriend being serious or a sincere moment.



I suspect that you, amongst other NH advocates, would be humming a completely different tune had he been referring to Hinata as opposed to Sakura in that instance.


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## Vlazz (Sep 27, 2014)

At this point, Sakura doesn't deserve Naruto. The future Hokage deserves better than being the "rebound guy". 

At the same time, Sasuke doesn't deserve Sakura. Sasuke has been so abusive to Sakura, the NFL would probably suspend him for 2 weeks. 

They will always be friends, but shouldn't be lovers.


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## Turrin (Sep 27, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> That was a joke type of thing, just because he called him his girlfriend doesn't mean she is.


The Joke was that, she was his girlfriend when she wasn't, however it also served the role of Naruto telling his father who he's interested in. 



> She doesn't have any type of romantic feelings for Naruto, she literally blurted out her love for Sasuke this chapter, right *in front* of Naruto's face..


This has nothing to do with how Naruto feels about Sakura



> If anything this chapter has sunk two ships, SasuSaku and NaruSaku. There is no romantic connection coming from both parties, it's just one sided.


If your expecting none of the ships to happen, your living in denial.


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## αshɘs (Sep 27, 2014)

CtrlAltPwn said:


> genjutsu or not, Sakura did experience the exact same physical pain of getting stabbed through the chest as if it were real. The only difference between her and Karin now is that Sakura won't have a physical scar to show for it but they both experienced the exact same pain of getting cut through their heart. People would really have to be in denial to think Sasuke held back in such an attack and didn't allow her to feel any pain.
> 
> I don't think some people are grasping this and simply saying no big deal it was just an illusion. It wasn't just an illusion, her horrified face is similar to Rin's, for Sakura it was real! her mind registered the attack as being real and made her body feel the pain, she would forever be scarred by this moment and she will never forget it.
> 
> ...



You mention Karin in your post, she also had it bad, yet she got over the whole issue quite well and still lusts after Sasuke  Sakura could have gotten the clue many times before, but she didn't. Not sure this situation will change much, but I agree with you this was brutal on Sasuke's part.


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## Pocalypse (Sep 27, 2014)

αshɘs said:


> You mention Karin in your post, she also had it bad, yet she got over the whole issue quite well and still lusts after Sasuke  Sakura could have gotten the clue many times before, but she didn't. Not sure this situation will change much, but I agree with you this was brutal on Sasuke's part.



Karin is without a doubt, the worst character in the series. She makes Sakura look decent and that's saying something. Karin's reason for lusting over Sasuke is because she got saved by Sasuke who kicked a pedobear away


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## Rindaman (Sep 27, 2014)

Kakugo said:


> With all due respect, that is some pretty deluded thinking.* You really can't make that comparison when you take into account that Naruto and Hinata have hardly shared the necessary interaction time in general, yet alone anything to contextually suggest that there is something between them beyond mere comradery. *Naruto has not once demonstrated to have even a sliver of romantic interest in Hinata, therefor implying that they share any mutual "reciprocating" moments is nothing more than wishful thinking. Also, we don't "think" that Naruto still loves Sakura, we know he does. He's reaffirmed it himself.
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect that you, amongst other NH advocates, would be humming a completely different tune had he been referring to Hinata as opposed to Sakura in that instance.



You're joking right?


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## solid-soul (Sep 27, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Karin is without a doubt, the worst character in the series. She makes Sakura look decent and that's saying something. Karin's reason for lusting over Sasuke is because she got saved by Sasuke who kicked a pedobear away



karin wasn't the one calling herself pathetic  for a reason, at least Karin would not lie and fake confession to her friends.
 kishi gave you a small reason as to  why karin may love sasuke.........still waiting for sakura reason mate

karin may be crazy...but sakura is trash


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## Elicit94 (Sep 27, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> You're joking right?



My god people are stupid.

Is it really that hard to logically reconcile a Naruto that simply has no interest in Hinata? Why the actual fuck would you think she's joking?


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## mayumi (Sep 27, 2014)

solid-soul said:


> karin wasn't the one calling herself pathetic  for a reason, at least Karin would not lie and fake confession to her friends.
> kishi gave you a small reason as to  why karin may love sasuke.........still waiting for sakura reason mate
> 
> karin may be crazy...but *sakura is trash*



 Very true. Give us all a reason Sakura. Why do you love Sasuke?


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## Arisu (Sep 27, 2014)

solid-soul said:


> karin wasn't the one calling herself pathetic  for a reason, at least Karin would not lie and fake confession to her friends.
> kishi gave you a small reason as to  why karin may love sasuke.........still waiting for sakura reason mate
> 
> karin may be crazy...but sakura is trash



Lol, Karin would just try to poison her teammates so she can have her way with injured Sasuke 
Sasuke saved Sakura 100 times more than Karin in their genin days. Kakashi said you don't need a reason to love but if you guys need one so desperately, maybe try reading part 1 and Sasuke's caring side for Sakura.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

Arisu said:


> Lol, Karin would just try to poison her teammates so she can have her way with injured Sasuke
> Sasuke saved Sakura 100 times more than Karin in their genin days. Kakashi said you don't need a reason to love but if you guys need one so desperately, maybe try reading part 1 and Sasuke's caring side for Sakura.



Didn't Sakura more or less do the exact same thing?

I mean I am amazed how you guys try to make these kind of arguments thinking they are logical and can't see why people see it as so close to the rationale used for abusive situations. Because he was good or decent at 12 is what you cling to despite what he's done since is ridiculous. 

"Well he started out OK!" Yes, these things usually do...it does nothing to negate or undo what he's done since; the big lines were crossed years ago but all you make are reasons and excuses not to acknowledge that.


----------



## Arisu (Sep 27, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Didn't Sakura more or less do the exact same thing?
> 
> I mean I am amazed how you guys try to make these kind of arguments thinking they are logical and can't see why people see it as so close to the rationale used for abusive situations. Because he was good or decent at 12 is what you cling to despite what he's done since is ridiculous.
> 
> "Well he started out OK!" Yes, these things usually do...it does nothing to negate or undo what he's done since; the big lines were crossed years ago but all you make are reasons and excuses not to acknowledge that.



More or less? You know exactly that Sakura's intentions weren't focused on something ridiculous like raping someone in their sleep. She tried to prevent Naruto from getting hurt and save Sasuke from falling further into the darkness. Her intentions aren't selfish like it was in Karin's case.  
No one says what Sasuke did was okay. But if Sasuke will understand his mistakes and Sakura decides to forgive him I don't have anything against it. It's admirable.


----------



## Arles Celes (Sep 27, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Every time I see these threads I am always left completely unable to see why people think the decision rests with Sakura or Sasuke. Kishimoto won't give two fucks when it comes to having those characters have a random heel face turn into loving someone. The decision will come down to Naruto, and that's all there is too it. Since he still going after Sakura, unless this changes in PIII, the end game pairing will be NaruSakura, because it's what Naruto wants, and what he wants he will get, because that's all Kishi cares about. Just like the Rin/Obito/Kakashi stuff makes absolutely no sense, but in the end the Naruto parallel Obito got the girl.



Did Obito really got the girl? He died before Kakashi did and while Rin was friendly enough she did not gesture that guaranteed that she cared for him more than as a dear friend. Its more in the "Maybe ever after" than "official couple" IMO.

Also I think that the decision of where to move with pairings will depend on BOTH Naruto and Sasuke. I doubt Kishi will bother to make Sasuke suddenly magically fall in love with Sakura so that she can reject him soon afterwards when Naruto confesses to her. So either Sasuke magically falls in love with Sakura and she reciprocates and Naruto either decides to keep loving her despite knowing that he will never get her(or hooking with Hinata) OR Sasuke decides to acknowledge Sakura as a friend but nothing more(which would be consistent on how he felt through all the manga and with romance not being a key element of his journey) which leads to Naruto hooking with Sakura or Hinata depending on what Kishi decides. I'm not sure if Naruto's confession will have much of an effect as all confessions in the manga hardly succeeded and the reason why any of those characters loved other people was hardly due to a previous confession.

Guess it depends where Kishi is going with RS saying that Sasuke will have to awaken to a new love. Maybe it means that he has to find a girl to love or maybe it is only brotherly love or some other kind of non romantic love. Maybe he will keep being uninterested in Sakura but fall for Karin, Ino or some unnamed female instead. No point though in changing his approach and make him fall in love only so Naruto can snatch it away by making Sakura fall for him instead or by making Karin fall for Suigetsu.

Granted it seems the girls won't get much of a choice though. They all seem like prizes.

At the end though Kishi may keep all those pairings one sided though as he did for over 700 chapters, give an open ending or only make one canon. Its not like Kishi promised to resolve any.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

Arisu said:


> More or less? You know exactly that Sakura's intentions weren't focused on something ridiculous like raping someone in their sleep. She tried to prevent Naruto from getting hurt and save Sasuke from falling further into the darkness. Her intentions aren't selfish like it was in Karin's case.
> No one says what Sasuke did was okay. But if Sasuke will understand his mistakes and Sakura decides to forgive him I don't have anything against it. It's admirable.



Sakura's intentions were of a more noble nature, but they were a selfish desire from love. 

You guys are pretty much implying what he did is acceptable enough to be handwaved by continuing to support the idea of him being romantically involved with Sakura. Forgiveness is one thing, they don't have to be together for that to happen. You guys take it a few steps further however, and cheerlead the idea of a girl getting together with a guy that under his own volition, has mistreated and even tried to kill her in the past. The fact that she clings to her romantic notions after all that is not admirable at all. It is exactly the makings of someone with a very unhealthy sense of emotional dependency.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 27, 2014)

Arisu said:


> Lol, Karin would just try to poison her teammates so she can have her way with injured Sasuke
> Sasuke saved Sakura 100 times more than Karin in their genin days. Kakashi said you don't need a reason to love but if you guys need one so desperately, maybe try reading part 1 and Sasuke's caring side for Sakura.



Karin sprayed what is in that bottle on herself, not her team mates.  

Seriously, this is the worst excuse for anti-SK that exists.

What kind of spray does a woman buy when she wants to kiss a man?


It is canon that Sakura drugged her team mates to get to Sasuke. Is that where this fanfiction comes from?


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## ch1p (Sep 27, 2014)

She said she wanted to attack him in his sleep and that panel with her spraying the perfume is on the DB with the phrase 'Karin's love is dangerous'. Her actions aren't meant to be bashed, they're meant to be funny, but stop attempting to white wash her actions.


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## Tayimus (Sep 27, 2014)

Just thought I'd pop back in here and post this little gem...


*Spoiler*: __ 















I apologize for the varying sizes.  I have no idea what was going on there.  The place I copied from had the pics tge same size


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## ch1p (Sep 27, 2014)

A butthurt fan. Not surprised tbh.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

ch1p said:


> A butthurt fan. Not surprised tbh.



Projection. Not surprised tbh.


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## Rindaman (Sep 27, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> My god people are stupid.
> 
> Is it really that hard to logically reconcile a Naruto that simply has no interest in Hinata? Why the actual fuck would you think she's joking?



Only idiot is usually the first person to call someone that, who ever thinks like this, that Naruto "and Hinata have hardly shared the necessary interaction time in general, yet alone anything to contextually suggest that there is something between them beyond mere comradery." Is the true imbecile.

Their interactions are way more substantial than anything from the Narusaku "Don't hit me" joke panels. Either way , I'm not even a shipper, I just don't see how one can  ignore contextual hints from the author when it comes to interactions between Hinata and Naruto.

I mean I could care less really. it'll just be another day at NF where a certain crowd shits all over Kishi's writing  when he doesn't abide to their logic instead of his own in universe logic. Kishi could've had Naruto not interact with Hinata til the end of the series after her confession and even then I could still tell these two characters are endgame.

If you can sit there and pretend their hasn't been development between Naruhina's relationship, then I really don't know what to say to you except to each his own.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Sep 27, 2014)

Il try to dumb things down so that everyone here can understand.

Sakura loves Sasuke. ( she loves him because little girls fall for stupid love and she was little when sasuke left )

Sasuke doesn't love Sakura ( he lost his will to love anything since his family died... you even had a fucking background of his family after Kakashi explained Sakura's feelings to him )

Hagaromo entrusted Naruto to once more transform HATE into LOVE, like it happen to kurama who was full of hatred.

Naruto will TNJ Sasuke and trigger a change that will make him love things... enjoy life and stop being a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).
Sasuke will then love Sakura since he will experience the feeling of love after being in darkness for so long.

Naruto will be left to Hinata. ( the girl was made around his character for fucking sake )

This things might take chapters to happen but if you can't see it then you are either lying to yourself or you are brain dead.


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## Pocalypse (Sep 27, 2014)

ch1p said:


> She said she wanted to attack him in his sleep and that panel with her spraying the perfume is on the DB with the phrase 'Karin's love is dangerous'. Her actions aren't meant to be bashed, they're meant to be funny, but stop attempting to white wash her actions.



Stupid post. I suppose you view Sasuke trying to kill Sakura as something which isn't supposed to be "bashed" and view it as something funny. Karin's actions pertain to forgiving Sasuke when he tried to kill her with a Chidori and acting like nothing ever happened. And you find that acceptable? Karin is absolutely terrible.


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## Rindaman (Sep 27, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Il try to dumb things down so that everyone here can understand.
> 
> Sakura loves Sasuke. ( she loves him because little girls fall for stupid love and she was little when sasuke left )
> 
> ...




Here's the thing that gets me with the SasuSaku detractors , screw real life reactions for abit, because if Sakura was real and had any self respect she would have forgot Sasuke a long time ago,and kicked his ass to the curb , but since in Kishi's world , true friendship conquers all, what in the sam hill makes you think that Sakura, who is still drop dead in love with Sasuke will change her affections once he's TnJ'd and becomes a good guy again  of all things? 

Kishi just had Naruto call Obito the coolest for Christ sake, the same guy who he was so mad at he shed tears of anger. Now he's his role model. To try to apply common everyday REAL LIFE logic with this property is the definition of insanity and people should have realized this a long time ago.

Idk man , just seems alot of people are setting ythemelves up for unnecessary disappointment when you know this Authors writing habits. And it's like clock work , these people cry how foul it is for Kishi to even consider writing something , knowing damn well how he gets down , only to rage beyond hell once it happens. It has to be Maddening.


----------



## Tayimus (Sep 27, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Il try to dumb things down so that everyone here can understand.
> 
> Sakura loves Sasuke. ( she loves him because little girls fall for stupid love and she was little when sasuke left )
> 
> ...



I'm a NaruSaku shipper (begrudgingly) And I can see this happening actually, Kishi's writing _is_ that bad.  It's just...ugh the SasuSaku ship needs Naruto to sail?  I absolutely hate that.  The ship can't happen based on its own merits and needs an outside character to help it.  It IMO embarrasses not only Sasuke and Sakura, but Naruto as well.  It makes Naruto look like he spent loads more time on someone else's love life rather than his own.



Rindaman said:


> Idk man , just seems alot of you re setting yourselves up for unnecessary disappointment when you know this Authors writing habits. And it's like clock work , these people cry how foul it is for Kishi to even consider writing something , knowing damn well how he gets down , only to rage beyond hell once it happens. It has to be Maddening.



Whatever Kishi decides in regards to pairing, there's gonna be rage.  Sometimes, I find myself hoping NaruSasu happens cause that would cause the greatest amount of tears.


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 27, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> Only idiot is usually the first person to call someone that, who ever thinks like this, that Naruto "and Hinata have hardly shared the necessary interaction time in general, yet alone anything to contextually suggest that there is something between them beyond mere comradery." Is the true imbecile.
> 
> Their interactions are way more substantial than anything from the Narusaku "Don't hit me" joke panels. Either way , I'm not even a shipper, I just don't see how one can  ignore contextual hints from the author when it comes to interactions between Hinata and Naruto.
> 
> ...


It's quite evidently your own selective logic to think of their interactions as more substantial than that of NaruSaku's for the canonization of NaruHina. You would have to advocate such interactions as leading up to some kind of canonization of NaruHina, but there are things in the story that directly contradict these notions, like the girlfriend comment. You did not consider anything that person said, and just thought that she had to be joking because you think anybody that doesn't follow your own selective logic has to be fooling themselves. You should feel really bad about yourself for saying that.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

Anyone claiming to know the end of this story is talking out of their ass. 

There are things you think you know might happen, or may want to happen; this is not the same as precognition. Which is what one would need here. Considering how many times things have veered in one which way or another, I would not really be counting on anything but Sasuke's redemption.


----------



## Rindaman (Sep 27, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> It's quite evidently your own selective logic to think of their interactions as more substantial than that of NaruSaku's for the canonization of NaruHina. You would have to advocate such interactions as leading up to some kind of canonization of NaruHina, but there are things in the story that directly contradict these notions, like the girlfriend comment. You did not consider anything that person said, and just thought that she had to be joking because you think anybody that doesn't follow your own selective logic has to be fooling themselves. You're a complete moron and you should feel bad for saying that.



To each his own bro. You're talking all types of crazy. 

Plus you keep insulting me and I have no time to discuss an imaginary lovescapade with narrow minded folks.  

(But i'd love to see the Narusaku panels that out weigh the emotional weight of the Naruhina panels. Ones having nothing to do with POAL or Sasuke in general would be nice.)




Seto Kaiba said:


> Anyone claiming to know the end of this story is talking out of their ass.
> 
> There are things you think you know might happen, or may want to happen; this is not the same as precognition. Which is what one would need here. Considering how many times things have veered in one which way or another, I would not really be counting on anything but Sasuke's redemption.



Here's one of the usual suspects. Enjoy your rage, that's all your here for in the end.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> To each his own bro. You're talking all types of crazy.
> 
> Plus you keep insulting me and I have no time to discuss an imaginary lovescapade with narrow minded folks.
> 
> ...



What are you even talking about? I wonder if you even know. 

Yet I'm hoping an assumption based on false dichotomies has something to do with it...


----------



## Rindaman (Sep 27, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> What are you even talking about?



You're one of the usual suspects I see trying to apply real world logic to Kishi's parings and it's hilarious  when even though you know very well how he goes about these things. Pretend you don't Seto.


----------



## Raiden (Sep 27, 2014)

I think he's well within reason to deny that anything is obvious about the ending. As much sense as Facelessman's post makes, things in the series itself didn't exactly turn out what to what many of those thought it would. We really have to wait and see since the mangaka keeps screwing with people on purpose. I do smell another plot twist (Sasuke falls in luff), but I don't think it's an unquestionable ending.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> You're one of the usual suspects I see trying to apply real world logic to Kishi's parings and it's hilarious  when even though you know very well how he goes about these things. Pretend you don't Seto.



So I was right.

See this is just the same braindead argument, because Kishi intends for us to connect to these matters; the only way to do so is an adherence to 'real world logic'. What's even dumber is the only way you yourself are able to identify concepts as they exist in the story is through application of that logic. 

I know what Kishi is trying to do, but seeing his intent, does not mean thinking thinking he was successful in pursuing it.

If you still don't get it. The easiest example is Naruto and Sasuke. He wants us to think they have a special bond and he wants us to sympathize with Naruto in his plight to bring Sasuke back home, a lot of people like myself do not. Because regardless of what Kishi tries to push on us, we have an understanding of the concepts he touches upon as it pertains to that matter.

Do you get it now or is it still too much to understand?

Also, it's stupid that of all things that would be what sets you off. I'm admitting to not knowing how this story ends, save for perhaps Sasuke's redemption; I think you do have to talk out of your ass to claim otherwise. There's nothing wrong with "I don't know" regarding the ending, or a lot of things for that matter...but for some reason some people don't seem to like doing that.


----------



## Tayimus (Sep 27, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> You're one of the usual suspects I see trying to apply real world logic to Kishi's parings and it's hilarious  when even though you know very well how he goes about these things. Pretend you don't Seto.



Perhaps I haven't been lurking pairing threads long enough but from what I've seen, Seto usually criticizes why people that support SasuSaku when they know it's mostly been a destructive relationship.  He doesn't criticize the ship itself unless he's criticizing Kishi...

I'm starting to feel like this in pairing threads...



EDIT:  Lol I was right, Seto critisizes Kishi.  Kishi really is a shit writer...


----------



## The Faceless Man (Sep 27, 2014)

Tayimus said:


> I'm a NaruSaku shipper (begrudgingly) And I can see this happening actually.  It's just...ugh the SasuSaku ship needs Naruto to sail?  I absolutely hate that.  The ship can't happen based on its own merits and needs an outside character to help it.  It IMO embarrasses not only Sasuke and Sakura, but Naruto as well.  It makes Naruto look like he spent loads more time on someone else's love life rather than his own.



Well Kishi made this stuff be about love in this chapter and Naruto was there so yeah apparently Naruto ships SasuSaku.
The ship is forced like all of them will be.

Naruto realized a long time ago that his love life didn't exist. He just isn't butthurt anymore or should I said frienzoned.



Rindaman said:


> Here's the thing that gets me with the SasuSaku detractors , screw real life reactions for abit, because if Sakura was real and had any self respect she would have forgot Sasuke a long time ago,and kicked his ass to the curb , but since in Kishi's world , true friendship conquers all, what in the sam hill makes you think that Sakura, who is still drop dead in love with Sasuke will change her affections once he's TnJ'd and becomes a good  of all things?
> 
> Kishi just had Naruto call Obito the coolest for Christ sake, the same guy who he was so mad at he shed tears of anger. Now he's his role model. To try to apply common everyday REAL LIFE logic with this property is the definition of insanity and people should have realized this a long time ago.
> 
> Idk man , just seems alot of you re setting yourselves up for unnecessary disappointment when you know this Authors writing habits. And it's like clock work , these people cry how foul it is for Kishi to even consider writing something , knowing damn well how he gets down , only to rage beyond hell once it happens. It has to be Maddening.



Sakura ain't real... no girl is that pathetic. At least not without having an actual relationship with that guy before getting obsessed.

Sakura loved Sasuke even when he was evil... once he turns good she will want even more. It's her dream to see Sasuke back. She would spread her legs faster then you can think.

The coolest guy thing was explained by takL so many times it hurts.
Kishi made Obito into 2  characters... the innocent kid who wanted to be hokage ( this is the cool guy ) and the mask obito who is a personality corrupted by the world and manipulated ( Naruto wanted punishment for this guy and didn't forgive him )

Obito turned into the innocent kid after Naruto used TNJ on him... "the mask" was finally taken off...

Kishi blamed all the villains ( the major villains ) on Black Zetsu who was the guy behind the ninja world and Kaguya... the bitch who planned her resurrection... this is why kishi didn't use TNJ on them.

I know how kishi writes. His a lazy friend. But he lets some clues for you to figure this out if you're smart enough. If not then you are a kid and you will enjoy the shit.

Kishi thinks that either the kid readers are dumb enough or the older readers are smart enough.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 27, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Stupid post. I suppose you view Sasuke trying to kill Sakura as something which isn't supposed to be "bashed" and view it as something funny. Karin's actions pertain to forgiving Sasuke when he tried to kill her with a Chidori and acting like nothing ever happened. And you find that acceptable? Karin is absolutely terrible.



What are you talking about? One thing was comic relief (don't tell me you want to take her rape comments seriously) and another was showing Sasuke entering true darkness. I have no idea how did you manage to compare the two. But subsequently, Kishi shat on that 'entering true darkness' moment because he got rid of it with ANOTHER comic relief moment, so your point is moot, whatever it is.

Regarding SS, it was never treated as comic relief. Not really sure what your point is there either.


----------



## Pocalypse (Sep 27, 2014)

ch1p said:


> What are you talking about? One thing was comic relief (don't tell me you want to take her rape comments seriously) and another was showing Sasuke entering true darkness. I have no idea how did you manage to compare the two. But subsequently, Kishi shat on that 'entering true darkness' moment because he got rid of it with ANOTHER comic relief moment, so your point is moot, whatever it is.
> 
> Regarding SS, it was never treated as comic relief. Not really sure what your point is there either.



Why shouldn't the rape comments be taken seriously? Do you view her character as a joke because from what I've seen this falls perfectly within her character as something she would do considering she doesn't care however way Sasuke treats her, and the way she acts towards Sasuke and lusts for him can suggest this. I compared them because you view her actions as something of a "joke" and a "comic relief" moment. Sounds like excuses to me so you can point out she is a good character and that Sasuke's actions don't have any meaning towards them.


----------



## Rindaman (Sep 27, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> So I was right.
> 
> See this is just the same braindead argument, because Kishi intends for us to connect to these matters; the only way to do so is an adherence to 'real world logic'. What's even dumber is the only way you yourself are able to identify concepts as they exist in the story is through application of that logic.
> 
> ...



I see what you mean about the story overall, Sasuke's redemption etc. But I'm not arguing if  the writing decisions are good or not , that's all left up to the perception of the reader, you think it's shoddy and I respect that. But let's not pretend a lot  these plot threads don't have clear endings that dude is not so subtle about hiding since, for as long as just about anyone can see if they've been reading from chapter 1.

I'm glad I understand more of your thinking on this subject.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Sep 27, 2014)

Also the paring its not about what you want. It's about seeing the foreshadow of what kishi wants.
This will help you not delude yourself or grasp for straws... or use real life in a manga situation.


----------



## Elicit94 (Sep 27, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> To each his own bro. You're talking all types of crazy.
> 
> Plus you keep insulting me and I have no time to discuss an imaginary lovescapade with narrow minded folks.
> 
> (But i'd love to see the Narusaku panels that out weigh the emotional weight of the Naruhina panels. Ones having nothing to do with POAL or Sasuke in general would be nice.)


The fact that you're calling us narrow minded says enough.

"There is not enough substantial development for the canonization of NaruHina"

"The girlfriend comment contradicts these notions"

THEY MUST BE NARROW MINDED. 

Ironically the only person who actually seems narrow minded is you.


----------



## anamnesis (Sep 27, 2014)

The problem is the debate hasn't been defined, and people are arguing over completely separate issues. 

Pairing likelihood is NOT the same thing as being well written (to your standards), being realistic, or whether the pairing is a good model for a romantic couple.


----------



## Rindaman (Sep 27, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> The fact that you're calling us narrow minded says enough.
> 
> "There is not enough substantial development for the canonization of NaruHina"
> 
> ...



You sound upset.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Sep 27, 2014)

anamnesis said:


> The problem is the debate hasn't been defined, and people are arguing over completely separate issues.
> 
> Pairing likelihood is NOT the same thing as being well written (to your standards), being realistic, or whether the pairing is a good model for a romantic couple.



See this guy gets it 
And everyone who doesn't should go fund themselves.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> I see what you mean about the story overall, Sasuke's redemption etc. But I'm not arguing if  the writing decisions are good or not , that's all left up to the perception of the reader, you think it's shoddy and I respect that. But let's not pretend a lot  these plot threads don't have clear endings that dude is not so subtle about hiding since, for as long as just about anyone can see if they've been reading from chapter 1.
> 
> I'm glad I understand more of your thinking on this subject.



I think some things are virtually a given such as Sasuke's redemption. Kishi made it clear Naruto won't or can't fail with that. 

Sometimes it can seem that way, and it may be on some matters; as a whole it isn't. For years it seemed obvious that Akatsuki or Orochimaru would be the final villains; just a year and a half ago no one had even heard of Kaguya, no less the idea that she'd be final villain. Things usually become clear as a story progresses, but sometimes...they don't. Look at this war arc alone and the inconsistencies it has wrought completely contradicting prior established matters. I think in all honesty there's only one conclusion clear with this story, and even then there is that little chance that things could go differently. 



anamnesis said:


> The problem is the debate hasn't been defined, and people are arguing over completely separate issues.
> 
> Pairing likelihood is NOT the same thing as being well written (to your standards), being realistic, or whether the pairing is a good model for a romantic couple.



I think personally the likelihood of a pairing is meaningless in the face of the events that transpire between the characters of that pairing to reach that end. I can never understand those that are so ardent on a pairing happening without taking to account that matter. 

Basically, "It's all about the journey, not the destination" to me. If the "journey" is shoddy then the "destination" really loses its value.


----------



## Tayimus (Sep 27, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Well Kishi made this stuff be about love in this chapter and Naruto was there so yeah apparently Naruto ships SasuSaku.
> The ship is forced like all of them will be.
> 
> Naruto realized a long time ago that his love life didn't exist. He just isn't butthurt anymore or should I said frienzoned.



Do you understand what I meant by "love life"?  His love life doesn't have to revolve around Sakura.  He could go with Hinata, Karin (I support this ), or any other female that's available.  While I still think Naruto likes Sakura (objectively, I fucking hate that), I don't care bout him shipping SS, or being butthurt or getting friendzoned.  When I think bout SS shippers saying Naruto will help Sasuke to love Sakura, I just think, "Dude!  Can Naruto care bout his own love life?!"  I'd have no problem with Naruto going with Hinata (I was originally a NH shipper anyway), but how do people use him to help Sasuke and Sakura's relationship?  He shouldn't even factor in their equation. Ugh, I just can't get over it.  

But mind you, I wouldn't put it past Kishi.


----------



## anamnesis (Sep 27, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I think personally the likelihood of a pairing is meaningless in the face of the events that transpire between the characters of that pairing to reach that end. I can never understand those that are so ardent on a pairing happening without taking to account that matter.
> 
> Basically, "It's all about the journey, not the destination" to me. If the "journey" is shoddy then the "destination" really loses its value.



There's nothing wrong with that. The problem is when someone's interpretation of the journey relies more on your personal viewpoints and life experience rather than what is actually in the text, and then tries to establish that as the be all end of all of interpretations.  That's when it gets personal. Readers come into a work with different life experiences and will thus experience a work differently. So yes, people should be called out when they are notably deviating from arguing from the text as the grounds for debate are NOT the same.   

It should also be stated upfront for intellectual honesty's sake, what exactly you are debating because not everyone here is focusing on the same thing.


----------



## Mr Horrible (Sep 27, 2014)

Tayimus said:


> I'm a NaruSaku shipper (begrudgingly) And I can see this happening actually, Kishi's writing _is_ that bad.  It's just...ugh the SasuSaku ship needs Naruto to sail?  I absolutely hate that.  The ship can't happen based on its own merits and needs an outside character to help it.  It IMO embarrasses not only Sasuke and Sakura, but Naruto as well.  It makes Naruto look like he spent loads more time on someone else's love life rather than his own.



Eh, it relies on Naruto having moved on from Sakura. Kishi is never going to write Naruto redeeming Sasuke and opening him up to love Sakura while Naruto is in love with her himself. Indeed if/when there is confirmation that Naruto still loves Sakura then SS's (and NH's) biggest card goes out the window.

The assumption that Naruto has moved on isn't terribly good as in this chapter we even got a throwback to the PoaL.

I find it amusing that Ch1p chooses just now to get into this thread, after most people who gave a fuck about the events in this chapter have moved on. It makes me feel like linking one of my previous posts in here asking how you can support both Sakura and SS when you get stuff like this happening.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Sep 27, 2014)

Tayimus said:


> Do you understand what I meant by "love life"?  His love life doesn't have to revolve around Sakura.  He could go with Hinata, Karin (I support this ), or any other female that's available.  While I still think Naruto likes Sakura (objectively, I fucking hate that), I don't care bout him shipping SS, or being butthurt or getting friendzoned.  When I think bout SS shippers saying Naruto will help Sasuke to love Sakura, I just think, "Dude!  Can Naruto care bout his own love life?!"  I'd have no problem with Naruto going with Hinata (I was originally a NH shipper anyway), but how do people use him to help Sasuke and Sakura's relationship?  He shouldn't even factor in their equation. Ugh, I just can't get over it.
> 
> But mind you, I wouldn't put it past Kishi.



Kishi wanted for Naruto's love life to be around Sakura... but that shit ended at the Kage summit.If you think the joke with girlfriend = he still like her ( you are lying to yourself )

Naruto already has Hinata in the bag. Holding hand in Japan is a very strong romantical thing.
Basically that was the point when Hinata's love stoped being one sided.
Also kishi made him a fucking volume cover.... Neji died to ship Naruhina.

And yes Naruto is used as plotdevice for the SasuSaku since Sasuke needs to first to be coverted in order to gain love.
You will not see a evil sasuke with Sakura as paring. So Naruto is a plotdevice no matter how you look at it.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

anamnesis said:


> There's nothing wrong with that. The problem is when someone's interpretation of the journey relies more on your personal viewpoints and life experience rather than what is actually in the text, and then tries to establish that as the be all end of all of interpretations.



wait. 

That is the only way you can interpret those matters. That is the whole idea. How can we know what love, brotherhood, and friendship is and when a story portrays it and if it portrays it faithfully without having an understanding of it ourselves? How do we define the nature and personality of characters without it? 

There is a difference again between that and recognizing what is in the story. Everyone recognizes what is in this story, what it may intend to do. Again to go back on my last example, just because Kishi makes it that Naruto and Sasuke are something special doesn't mean people will think that way.



> That's when it gets personal. Readers come into a work with different life experiences and will thus experience a work differently. So yes, people should be called out when they are notably deviating from arguing from the text as the grounds for debate are NOT the same.
> 
> It should also be stated upfront for intellectual honesty's sake, what exactly you are debating because not everyone here is focusing on the same thing.



It's going to, to a point. Since these are touching upon some deeply held ideals in some people, such as for example when a person says they support what Sasuke is doing. People are going to make strong refutes because of how they recognize the concepts the story is touching on with that. Because they recognize the mode of thinking required to reach such a conclusion.

Yet what is there being interpreted that is worthwhile in feverish obsession over trying to look like an omniscient soothsayer? It feels good to be right, I can understand that, but people take it to a point where they ignore everything else simply for that sake. Like if you're right about a story event ok, but was it any good? Or can it be? I think that is what's important.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 27, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Why shouldn't the rape comments be taken seriously? Do you view her character as a joke because from what I've seen this falls perfectly within her character as something she would do considering she doesn't care however way Sasuke treats her, and the way she acts towards Sasuke and lusts for him can suggest this. I compared them because you view her actions as something of a "joke" and a "comic relief" moment. Sounds like excuses to me so you can point out she is a good character and that Sasuke's actions don't have any meaning towards them.


[/QUOTE]

Kishi used it as a funny moment. Be my guest in using it as a serious moment though. That doesn't help the Karin fandom or the SasuKarin pairing in any way. You're trying to say I'm white washing Karin., but I was accused of bashing it by mr moral police over there, and tbh I'm too neutral towards each to give a darn. Not really sure what this schizo conversation is about lol.


----------



## sakuranonamida (Sep 27, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I think some things are virtually a given such as Sasuke's redemption. Kishi made it clear Naruto won't or can't fail with that.
> 
> Sometimes it can seem that way, and it may be on some matters; as a whole it isn't. For years it seemed obvious that Akatsuki or Orochimaru would be the final villains; just a year and a half ago no one had even heard of Kaguya, no less the idea that she'd be final villain. Things usually become clear as a story progresses, but sometimes...they don't. Look at this war arc alone and the inconsistencies it has wrought completely contradicting prior established matters. I think in all honesty there's only one conclusion clear with this story, and even then there is that little chance that things could go differently.
> 
> ...



Basically this. If all you have going for your pairing is that it might be canon and your enjoyment will be in bragging about it because 'I was right and you were wrong' instead of actually caring about the whole journey, it's kind of pathetic because it's like you are only clinging to it because there isn't anything else of value apart from 'muh canon'.



anamnesis said:


> There's nothing wrong with that. The problem is when someone's interpretation of the journey relies more on your personal viewpoints and life experience rather than what is actually in the text, and then tries to establish that as the be all end of all of interpretations. * That's when it gets personal. Readers come into a work with different life experiences and will thus experience a work differently. *So yes, people should be called out when they are notably deviating from arguing from the text as the grounds for debate are NOT the same.
> 
> It should also be stated upfront for intellectual honesty's sake, what exactly you are debating because not everyone here is focusing on the same thing.



Sorry but there is a limit to that and I say that as a former SS shipper. When a ship is so completely one sided (basically not only a non existant romantic relationship but even a very limited friendship with lack of interaction) with one part of the pairing hurting time and time again the other and not wanting to have anything to do with that person, then why cling to it as sth positive when it's not, basically if after the land of iron you still ship either SK or SS, it's not about personal experience or point of view, it's about refusing to accept negative elements, just like most fans buying all the crap about bonds from Kishi like it's a great thing when it's not. Yes it's a work of fiction and you can enjoy toxic things but admit they are toxic and don't pretend everything is normal and people not seeing like you are just mean bullies.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 27, 2014)

"Moral police"? 

Because you know, recognizing that Sasuke's relationships exhibit strongly many characteristics of what people are taught and come to recognize as being indicative of an unhealthy relationship, and in turn characterizing those relationships as such, is being too strict.

Please.


----------



## Tayimus (Sep 27, 2014)

Mr Horrible said:


> Eh, it relies on Naruto having moved on from Sakura. Kishi is never going to write Naruto redeeming Sasuke and opening him up to love Sakura while Naruto is in love with her himself. Indeed if/when there is confirmation that Naruto still loves Sakura then SS's (and NH's) biggest card goes out the window.



SasuSaku doesn't rely on Naruto moving on.  Their feelings should have absolutely nothing to do with him.  He's not stopping them from getting together.  Naruto is most definitely NOT an obstacle to them having feelings for each other.  Your post makes it sound like the only reason Naruto is trying to redeem Sasuke is because he doesn't like Sakura anymore.  That's like saying if Naruto in fact still held feelings for her, he _wouldn't_ be doing what he's doing, which not only goes completely against his overall character but also The Promise of a Lifetime _and_ what he told Sai about the subject.

And I hate the fact that people who say once Sasuke comes back to the good side, he'll fall in love with Sakura like it's automatic.  It makes him seem obligated to do so.


----------



## Renyou (Sep 27, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Also the paring its not about what you want. It's about seeing the foreshadow of what kishi wants.


And what is it that Kishi wants? What foreshadowing are we supposed to take seriously, exactly? We have NS foreshadowing (numerous "girlfriend"/"red string" stuff, not even counting the so-called parallels), NH foreshadowing (desire to hold hands, "like people like you") and, if this chapter is any indication, SS foreshadowing (turning hate to love). Heck, we even had SasuIno foreshadowing (Asuma's death scene). We also had foreshadowing that Sakura would help Naruto bring Sasuke back, and look how that turned out.


----------



## Tayimus (Sep 27, 2014)

Renyou said:


> And what is it that Kishi wants? What foreshadowing are we supposed to take seriously, exactly? We have NS foreshadowing (numerous "girlfriend"/"red string" stuff, not even counting the so-called parallels), NH foreshadowing (desire to hold hands, "like people like you") and, if this chapter is any indication, SS foreshadowing (turning hate to love). Heck, we even had SasuIno foreshadowing (Asuma's death scene). We also had foreshadowing that Sakura would help Naruto bring Sasuke back, and look how that turned out.



+reps

The Pairing Wars in a nutshell, ladies and gentlemen :rofl


----------



## The Faceless Man (Sep 27, 2014)

Renyou said:


> And what is it that Kishi wants? What foreshadowing are we supposed to take seriously, exactly? We have NS foreshadowing (numerous "girlfriend"/"red string" stuff, not even counting the so-called parallels), NH foreshadowing (desire to hold hands, "like people like you") and, if this chapter is any indication, SS foreshadowing (turning hate to love). Heck, we even had SasuIno foreshadowing (Asuma's death scene). We also had foreshadowing that Sakura would help Naruto bring Sasuke back, and look how that turned out.



Let me see.

A whole character being based around another character ( Hinata around Naruto )
Holding hands being important in japan 
A character lying when he said that she loves him
Reading the RAW and seeing the girlfriend thing was a joke.
Hagaromo wanting Hate turned into Love.
Sakura saying she loves Sasuke in front of Naruto.

I think any unbiased person that is not gasping to see what he wants to see... and looks at that would know.

NaruHina and SasuSaku.

No matter how forced and stupid it sounds compared to real life. If the author goes that way... you're headcanon = 0


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## Mr Horrible (Sep 27, 2014)

Tayimus said:


> SasuSaku doesn't rely on Naruto moving on.  Their feelings should have absolutely nothing to do with him.  He's not stopping them from getting together.  Naruto is most definitely NOT an obstacle to them having feelings for each other.  Your post makes it sound like the only reason Naruto is trying to redeem Sasuke is because he doesn't like Sakura anymore.  That's like saying if Naruto in fact still held feelings for her, he _wouldn't_ be doing what he's doing, which not only goes completely against his overall character but also The Promise of a Lifetime _and_ what he told Sai about the subject.



I'm referring to the argument that the Sage was talking about Sasuke needing to open himself up to love being a lead-in to SS. In which case Naruto would be both redeeming Sasuke and effectively making him love Sakura .

Now while in-universe Naruto isn't much of an obstacle to SS, if he still has feelings for Sakura then he most certainly is in terms of the story. There's no way in hell the main character of a shounen like this both redeems Sasuke and makes him Sakura in return for SS to happen. Turrin talked about this type of thing previously in the thread; Naruto's feelings are simply more important when talking about which pairing will become canon.

TLR if Naruto is directly shown to have feelings for Sakura still, SS is fucked.



> And I hate the fact that people who say once Sasuke comes back to the good side, he'll fall in love with Sakura like it's automatic.  It makes him seem obligated to do so.



I dislike it as well, I was refuting that argument in my original post.


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## Chabal (Sep 27, 2014)

sakuranonamida said:


> Yes it's a work of fiction and you can enjoy toxic things but admit they are toxic and don't pretend everything is normal and people not seeing like you are just mean bullies.



This, a thousand times.

If only the rest of your (ex) fandom could be this reasonable.


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## Kakashisauce (Sep 27, 2014)

I didn't think the sage meant Sakura at all. Sasuke is PURE hate right now. That is what is fueling all his decisions; he hated Itachi, he hated Danzou, he hated Konoha and now he hates the entire ninja system. In order for him to ever hope to be a normal person, that hate needs to turn to love. And Naruto is going to be the one to do it, because HE is who Sasuke is closest to. Also, cause thats what Naruto does. 

WHY does that have to mean SS? Because it came after Sasuke ripped Sakura's heart out via genjutsu? Come on, guys. If anything, the imagery was pure Sasuke and Naruto. The SasuNaru fans have the most to be excited about right now. Who knows what will happen, but Sasuke doesn't necessarily hate Sakura. So why would his "hate" turn into "love" for her when he doesnt hate her?


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## The Faceless Man (Sep 27, 2014)

Kakashisauce said:


> I didn't think the sage meant Sakura at all. Sasuke is PURE hate right now. That is what is fueling all his decisions; he hated Itachi, he hated Danzou, he hated Konoha and now he hates the entire ninja system. In order for him to ever hope to be a normal person, that hate needs to turn to love. And Naruto is going to be the one to do it, because HE is who Sasuke is closest to. Also, cause thats what Naruto does.
> 
> WHY does that have to mean SS? Because it came after Sasuke ripped Sakura's heart out via genjutsu? Come on, guys. If anything, the imagery was pure Sasuke and Naruto. The SasuNaru fans have the most to be excited about right now. Who knows what will happen, but Sasuke doesn't necessarily hate Sakura. So why would his "hate" turn into "love" for her when he doesnt hate her?



The chapter itself was based around love and Hagaromo meant more then motherly love.
Sasuke doesn't have the will to love anymore and once the magical TNJ will change him.
He will learn to love things again.

That is what's keeping him from Sakura. Not having love in his own heart.

Its forced as fuck but deal with it.


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## Elicit94 (Sep 27, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> The chapter itself was based around love and Hagaromo meant more then motherly love.
> Sasuke doesn't have the will to love anymore and once the magical TNJ will change him.
> He will learn to love things again.
> 
> ...


Sasuke doesn't have the will to love, but what he feels for Sakura isn't hate but indifference. Hagaromo was talking about hate turning into love, but Sasuke doesn't really hate Sakura, so it's not like this is some kind of foreshadowing of him coming to love Sakura.


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## Kakashisauce (Sep 27, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> The chapter itself was based around love and Hagaromo meant more then motherly love.
> Sasuke doesn't have the will to love anymore and once the magical TNJ will change him.
> He will learn to love things again.
> 
> ...



This tastes a lot like SS-shipper logic. There is no indication, ever, that Sasuke had an interest in Sakura but just couldn't bare to love her because there was so much hate in his heart. He did, by the end of part one, obviously care for her as a friend enough to valiantly defend her from people who tried to hurt her. But he almost died for Naruto, so that is out the window to use as shipper fluff. This is more about Sasuke healing as a person and not just so he can end up with Sakura. I think he'll end up alone, honestly. He has been written on his own path this entire manga. You said there was hand holding to foreshadow NH; fine. What in the world has foreshadowed SS? He rejects her every time she tells him she loves him. There's no hand holding.


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## The Faceless Man (Sep 27, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> Sasuke doesn't have the will to love, but what he feels for Sakura isn't hate but indifference. Hagaromo was talking about hate turning into love, but Sasuke doesn't really hate Sakura, so it's not like this is some kind of foreshadowing of him coming to love Sakura.



So indifference is not an opposite of LOVE ? 
It is a foreshadow since Sakura was used into this LOVE BS and Hagaromo clearly said he didnt mean motherly love.



Kakashisauce said:


> This tastes a lot like SS-shipper logic. There is no indication, ever, that Sasuke had an interest in Sakura but just couldn't bare to love her because there was so much hate in his heart. He did, by the end of part one, obviously care for her as a friend enough to valiantly defend her from people who tried to hurt her. But he almost died for Naruto, so that is out the window to use as shipper fluff. This is more about Sasuke healing as a person and not just so he can end up with Sakura. I think he'll end up alone, honestly. He has been written on his own path this entire manga. You said there was hand holding to foreshadow NH; fine. What in the world has foreshadowed SS? He rejects her every time she tells him she loves him. There's no hand holding.



Yeah im not a SS shipper.
You dont get it.... Kishi is forcing this shit. Every god damn paring is one sided dont throw the shit with both side having interest.

Yeah and you to avoid this chapter when kishi is giving sakura the love spot in all this talk about love and hate.

Yeah he wont end up alone tho i dislike his character clearly Kishi will make him rebuil the uchiha name and clan and not die alone.

This chapter foreshadow that more then anything. And the fact that if NH happens... be sure that SS is next to happen.

I know you try to find logic in this BS but there is no logic... its forced shit that will happen and kishi just throws some foreshadow on what BS follows.


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## Radice (Sep 27, 2014)

Kakashisauce said:


> WHY does that have to mean SS? Because it came after Sasuke ripped Sakura's heart out via genjutsu? Come on, guys. If anything, the imagery was pure Sasuke and Naruto. The SasuNaru fans have the most to be excited about right now. Who knows what will happen, but Sasuke doesn't necessarily hate Sakura. So why would his "hate" turn into "love" for her when he doesnt hate her?



Stop to lie to yourself. This chapter was all about Sakura's feelings and SS much more than SasuNaru.
What's the point to made Sakura confesses her loves again at this point?
Not just Sakura confessed again. But even Kakashi supported SS in this chapter.
Sasuke doesn't hate Sakura. But he has so much hate inside him how impedes him to love someone.

Naruto converting bad/morally confused guys to the good side happened many times and hardly anyone would be surprised if Naruto finally makes Sasuke to soften up at least a bit. Maybe Sasuke will have a revelation and fall in love with Sakura filling the void he has after losing his family with his new found love with her...

Did you really think It's just a coincidence Sasuke thinks about his family after he heard Sakura and Kakashi's plea and after Hagoromo said this Sasuke is a result of the love of his family Sasuke once lost in the past?


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## Kakashisauce (Sep 27, 2014)

Radice said:


> Stop to lie to yourself. This chapter was all about Sakura's feelings and SS much more than SasuNaru.
> What's the point to made Sakura confesses her loves again at this point?
> Not just Sakura confessed again. But even Kakashi supported SS in this chapter.
> Sasuke doesn't hate Sakura. But he has so much hate inside him how impedes him to love someone.
> ...



Ugh, dont mention NS like I'm all over that ship. I'm not arguing SS in support of NS. Kakashi did NOT support SS in this chapter. He was pissed that Sasuke was acting like a grade A asshat to Sakura, because he loves his students, her included. When Kakashi mentioned love, Sasuke thought of his family. because he loved his family. Kakashi was smack talking Sasuke like he only hates and doesn't understand love. But Sasuke does know love, because he loved his family dearly. So...how...is that SS? Like...what? When he thinks of LOVE, he thinks of his FAMILY, not Sakura. WILL he eventually, way down the road, fall in love with Sakura when he isn't totally insane anymore? I don't know...but this chapter is no indication of that happening. Sakura confessed her love because she does that every time she tries to change Sasuke. it never works.

The Faceless Man (because I forgot to press the right buttons to do this properly)

Alright. Lets drop logic, because yes, logic = no, and just try and go with Kishi's style. In that case, my prediction would be that he is going to end the manga with an ambiguous ending. What I've seen of Kishi is that he TROLLS all the pairings. he gives them all a bone whenever they havent had one in a while. I honestly can't see him settling on two (or one, who knows) pairings, seriously. I know NH had their moment, and everyone is all over SS right now, but in that case, you cant ignore NS either. They have just as much ammo to use and the same kind of 'logic' as all the other pairings, don't they? Arguing this seems senseless, so I'm just gonna throw that out there as my prediction for the romantic ending of this manga. Kishi trolling everyone hard.


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## Elicit94 (Sep 27, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> So indifference is not an opposite of LOVE ?
> It is a foreshadow since Sakura was used into this LOVE BS and Hagaromo clearly said he didnt mean motherly love.


Yes it is, but Hagoromo was talking about HATE turning into love. 

Also, Hagoromo was talking about reclaiming the love that they used to have before that love turned into hate. Sasuke never loved Sakura and only felt feelings of friendship or indifference towards her, but he loved Naruto like a brother. 

If anything this is just some SasuNaru bond foreshadowing 

EDIT: Also the point of bringing Sakura into this was for the author to say that you don't need any reason to love somebody. Sasuke thinks back to his family that gave him unconditional love which is what Sakura was offering to him, and he says "that's a thing of the past".


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## ch1p (Sep 27, 2014)

Mr Horrible said:


> I find it amusing that Ch1p chooses just now to get into this thread.



I've been here since the beginning, lul, just not in this retarded thread. And even on this thread, I posted somewhere on some page when i read the chapter. Just because you aren't paying attention (story of your life, narsak fan), this isn't my fault.


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## son_michael (Sep 27, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Let me see.
> 
> A whole character being based around another character ( Hinata around Naruto )
> Holding hands being important in japan
> ...



That's all you got? I've been a Naru Saku fan since 2006 and since that time, it had been receiving foreshadowing,hints up the wazoo.

-Sakura wanting to fail her test so that Naruto wouldn't fail alone.
-Promise of a life time.
-Sakura going on dates with Naruto
-Jiraiya and Tsunade's relationship being a parallel
- Yamato supporting Naru Saku
-Sai supporting Naru Saku
-kushina telling Naruto to find a woman just like her
-Minato asking Naruto about Sakura being his g/f and Naruto says "yeah"
-Sakura crying like crazy over Naruto transforming in kyuubi
-Sakura giving Naruto mouth to mouth resuscitation
-Sakura trying to protect Naruto form killing Sasuke
- Sakura hugging Naruto in front of the whole village and everybody smiling and woo hooing at them,Hinata smiling in the backround.
-Sakura and all the rookies acknowledging Naruto is in love with her

and I'm sure there's more I forgot...you know what? All that shit means nothing, Kishi is gonna do what he wants to do and it looks like he wants Sasuke to acknowledge Sakura's love as a way of being saved.

All thes pairing hints have been nothing but hooks so that pairing fans keep reading.


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