# Tobirama Senju vs Orochimaru



## Fullmoon Evergreen Prince (Mar 10, 2017)

*vs.*

_Rules:_

This is Tobirama when he was still alive in his prime; whereas this is Orochimaru before being trapped in the Infinite Tsukuyomi without any injuries.
Tobirama wields Sword of the Thunder God; whereas Orochimaru is in his true form, has body modifications done on him, wields Sword of Kusanagi, and ate Genjutsu Pill & Mind Awakening Pill.
1-on-1 death battle.
No interference or holding back.
Location:

In Ryuchi Cave, the same cave where Orochimaru uncovered the source of Jugo's clan's abilities.


----------



## Bonly (Mar 10, 2017)

Orochi would win more times then not. Tobi has no idea that Orochi's blood will poison him and numb him so he'll likely cut down Orochi, get poisoned and then Orochi will bite him to death or eat him or whatever he wants to do to finish him off.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## HandfullofNaruto (Mar 10, 2017)

lol the sword of the thunder god - I fucking miss the part 1 fillers.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Isaiah13000 (Mar 10, 2017)

Orochimaru can heal from whatever Tobirama dishes out, whilst Tobirama will be left paralyzed after slicing Orochimaru up. Considering Tobirama doesn't mark the battlefield anywhere near as much as Minato does, he won't have really have many if any markers placed on the field so he has nowhere to teleport to so he gets eaten eventually. Orochimaru mid diffs at the most due to being a bad match-up.


----------



## JiraiyaFlash (Mar 10, 2017)

Both of them aint has a execution jutsu or any finisher asset. 

Orochimaru hold on against Tobirama with his regen/durability, poison, oral rebirth, summons and Kusanagi
Tobirama hold on against Orochimaru with Top level suiton, great cqc skills, hirashin, shunshin, better clone feints, better stamina

Orochimaru stated that 59 y/o Hiruzen should beat Orochimaru with ease. Who is probably inferior to Tobirama in that age.
But location also more fits for Orochimaru. He can easily control and dominate the area with summons.

So its a tough call it could go to either way but location works for Orochi more.

By the way fellas,, when "Paralyzing Slice" happened in manga ı cant remember.. I only remember Naruto slice him and he stiches himself again but there wasnt any poison effect ? Oh ok ok ı just read the part about True Orochimaru form.

But that aint even able to finish Hebi Sasuke for good ? And Kabuto also had White Snake too And It cutted by Itachi and again nothing happened.

Tobirama far faster, far durable and far more experienced and probably far more intelligent than Hebi Sasuke guys.. C'mon. It might effect a bit but not good enough to get W for Orochimaru against Tobirama.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Android (Mar 10, 2017)

I'll side with Orochimaru more times than not .Tobirama doesn't have anything that can put down Orochimaru , nor will he be able to outlast him , i don't even see him being able to force him into oral rebirth , sooner or later , he's gonna get tagged and poisoned to death . 
If Tobirama has ET however ................


----------



## Sapherosth (Mar 10, 2017)

hurrr durrrrr


Tobirama has FTG so he wins.


----------



## Android (Mar 10, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> hurrr durrrrr
> 
> 
> Tobirama has FTG so he wins.


Nah , that only works against Uchihas with MS .
FTG owns them bitches

Reactions: Funny 5


----------



## GoldGournetChef (Mar 10, 2017)

Tobirama has this 
he will shrug of orochimaru poison and kill him with tandem explosive tags

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## JiraiyaFlash (Mar 10, 2017)

Im also agree with Orochimaru's victory over Tobirama. Specially at this location but. 

I dont think Tobirama need specific execution jutsu for Orochimaru cuz Orochimaru aint have either. Plus ?! What is gonna happen, Orochimaru survive from everything and Tobirama a freaking Senju gonna outlast ?! I dont think so . 

He praised as the "best suiton" user. We dont have many feats from him but the best suiton users by feats are Kisame, Gengetsu and Mei ı think. So you can imagine probably how Tobirama reinforced well. He already had 5 jutsu about Suiton.

He has Suiton Suryudan and that water/ıce needles from his mouth.. Thats also pointed out his creativity on suiton IMO. 

He has kenjutsu proficiency... Which is Orochimaru had trouble against Sasuke's kenjutsu proficiency. .

He can tag Orochimaru (specially this Orochimaru) easily.. And this is a free acces to land a hit to him everytime !. 
Also he is probably faster than oro on his feet too . 

And remember he is the ınventor of kage bunshin, edo tensei, hirashin.. Probably he has some seal & barrier proficiency too due to how he good at creating stuffs.

And he was shocked about when he make 2 clones.. So probably he can make at least 10 of them. So 10 Tobirama against marked Orochimaru ..He can use Hiraishin Goshun Mawashi with his bunshin against him to suprise. 

And this is pretty bad for orochimaru 


10 Clones making this around to Oroc ?! 

So ı think Tobirama can kill Orochimaru.. But ı dont think he can do this in this location and Orochimaru's summons are able to create division.


----------



## Trojan (Mar 10, 2017)

GoldGournetChef said:


> Tobirama has this
> he will shrug of orochimaru poison and kill him with tandem explosive tags


If ET is allowed here (Tobirama can't use the explosion tags without ET). Oro should get his ET as well. Which will make this a total
fodderstomps in his favor.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Trojan (Mar 10, 2017)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> He praised as the "best suiton" user.


never happened. I don't know why this fan-fiction is still alive to this day! 

Also, there is a lot of fan-fiction and baseless assumption on your post 2.


----------



## The_Conqueror (Mar 10, 2017)

Only hiruzen prime exists so dont know any thing about prime tobirama

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## JiraiyaFlash (Mar 10, 2017)

Hussain said:


> never happened. I don't know why this fan-fiction is still alive to this day!


Yeah looks like you right. ı guees like you said it is just a postulate about him. . if he is not best then most of the post can be look ff ı agree. But ı still have solid points..

He can make more bunshin, he can use his water for distraction and slicing.. He can make Hirashin & Shunshin combos with his bunshins (per canon) and he is hard to catch by Orochimaru..

All of these are true .

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Veracity (Mar 10, 2017)

Y'all are crazy. If Itachi can cut clean through Oro's hand, then FTG slashes to the throat will warrant Oral Rebirth; which is not an attack that Oro can spam. Tobirama has the speed and reflexes to never be touched in this battle while Oro clearly does not. I'd side with Tobirama wearing Oro down with consecutive FTG attacks rather than Oro tagging someone that has better speed feats and FTG. A lot of this also changes depending on restrictions. If Oro is restricted to Part 1 Edo and Tobirama has his low level Edo than Tobirama would nuke Oro with infinite explosions.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## UchihaX28 (Mar 10, 2017)

Oral Rebirth is contingent upon the user's reactions, so it cannot be used relentlessly against a Hiraishin user with speeds that trounce both Madara and Hashirama; the former of which trashed SM Naruto who is far beyond Orochimaru's paygrade in terms of reactions. Orochimaru is not defending against Tobirama constantly by even forming a mental thought to activate Oral Rebirth. Though on the contrary, Orochimaru's preternatural resilience isn't intertwined with Oral Rebirth. Oral Rebirth enables him to escape sticky situations and catch opponent's off-guard, but as illustrated with his survival against Totsuka blade, he clearly has the longevity to resist Tobirama's slashes unscathed. The reason why Orochimaru was immediately staggered by Itachi's kunai slash was because he was already enfeebled by Itachi's Sharingan Genjutsu, something that is impertinent here.

 Unless Tobirama has access to Edo Tensei and decimates Orochimaru with explosives, Orochimaru would tank everything Tobirama has to offer and win eventually.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## GoldGournetChef (Mar 10, 2017)

Hussain said:


> If ET is allowed here (Tobirama can't use the explosion tags without ET). Oro should get his ET as well. Which will make this a total
> fodderstomps in his favor.


Tandem explosive tags can be done without ET


----------



## GoldGournetChef (Mar 10, 2017)

UchihaX28 said:


> Oral Rebirth is contingent upon the user's reactions, so it cannot be used relentlessly against a Hiraishin user with speeds that trounce both Madara and Hashirama; the former of which trashed SM Naruto who is far beyond Orochimaru's paygrade in terms of reactions. Orochimaru is not defending against Tobirama constantly by even forming a mental thought to activate Oral Rebirth. Though on the contrary, Orochimaru's preternatural resilience isn't intertwined with Oral Rebirth. Oral Rebirth enables him to escape sticky situations and catch opponent's off-guard, but as illustrated with his survival against Totsuka blade, he clearly has the longevity to resist Tobirama's slashes unscathed. The reason why Orochimaru was immediately staggered by Itachi's kunai slash was because he was already enfeebled by Itachi's Sharingan Genjutsu, something that is impertinent here.
> 
> Unless Tobirama has access to Edo Tensei and decimates Orochimaru with explosives, Orochimaru would tank everything Tobirama has to offer and win eventually.


He has his water lasers that where cutting the shinju


----------



## Trojan (Mar 10, 2017)

GoldGournetChef said:


> Tandem explosive tags can be done without ET


No, it cannot be done without ET.


----------



## GoldGournetChef (Mar 10, 2017)

Hussain said:


> No, it cannot be done without ET.


It can it's just explosive tags that tobi can clone with KB


----------



## Trojan (Mar 10, 2017)

GoldGournetChef said:


> It can it's just explosive tags that tobi can clone with KB


How on God's green earth is he going to use it with clones? lol
Why do people give Tobirama a whole ton of fan-fiction! 

The guy said it's for ET, they say no it's for clones! 
yomi numa 

And he shows that he stabbed himself to pull those explosions out. How are the clones going to stab themselves without getting destroyed?

Even the Databook spelled it out


互乗起爆札 gojou kibakufuda (Mutually Multiplying Explosive Tags)
Ninjutsu
A-rank; Offensive; Close-range
User: Senju Tobirama

"Relentlessly violent detonations of explosion tags
Reducing even tough armours to dust

Tags that summon more tags that then explode - a special explosion tag.
The Second Hokage developed this *for the purpose of combining it with “Edo Tensei”.*
Upon ACTIVATION, due to the devastating (terribly violent) explosions, it is highly probable that the jutsu-caster will be caught in it.
If a live PERSON performs the technique, death is inevitable, for it is a blast technique that sacrifices one’s life (body).

(Tobirama vs SAGE Obito)
The timing for the invocation (activation) of the jutsu is crucial.
A surprise attack will demonstrate absolute (certain, guranteed) results.

(Gamakichi avoiding the blast radius)
At the end of hitting the target (enemy), even if reduced to pieces of flesh (meat confetti), the explosions CONTINUE….
The thunderous roar of the explosions speaks for that attack’s brutality (severity).”


Any Explosion tags + clones scenario is simply a bad fan-fiction.


----------



## GoldGournetChef (Mar 10, 2017)

Hussain said:


> How on God's green earth is he going to use it with clones? lol
> Why do people give Tobirama a whole ton of fan-fiction!
> 
> The guy said it's for ET, they say no it's for clones!
> ...


Okay I get it but let's not forget about his suiton lasers

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Trojan (Mar 10, 2017)

GoldGournetChef said:


> Okay I get it but let's not forget about his suiton lasers



What is his Water-style going to do tho?
Even if he were able to cut Oro in half, that wouldn't kill him.


----------



## Lord Aizen (Mar 10, 2017)

Hussain said:


> What is his Water-style going to do tho?
> Even if he were able to cut Oro in half, that wouldn't kill him.


cutting him in half might not but I dont see orochimaru coming back if a dozen tobirama's continuously cut him into cubes


----------



## Serene Grace (Mar 10, 2017)

- Oro _definitely_ isn't touching Tobi, Tobirama was able to react to Juubito's blitz by tagging himwhereas Tobi has the means and the speed to touch him, the only real problem is without ET Tobirama doesn't really have much to put Oro down, while Orochimaru can't really touch Tobirama. Under the assumption that they both receive full knowledge then Orochimaru's poison blood is utterly useless though outside of that Tobirama could possibly lose to that.


Hydra isn't a problem as Suidahana simply cuts them up, with out much difficulty



- Give Oro his part 1 Edo's that got trashed by Old Hiruzenthey get erased by the explosion as well, blitzed then sealed.

- Tobirama wins mid-high diff.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## Seekingsoul (Mar 10, 2017)

Tobi's trump card, Tandem explosive tags, involves ET. If he gets ET, Orochi must also get it.

Still Tandem explosive tags is an impressive jutsu by itself. Probably on par with an enormous bomb.


----------



## Serene Grace (Mar 10, 2017)

UchihaX28 said:


> Oral Rebirth is contingent upon the user's reactions, so it cannot be used relentlessly against a Hiraishin user with speeds that trounce both Madara and Hashirama; the former of which trashed SM Naruto who is far beyond Orochimaru's paygrade in terms of reactions. Orochimaru is not defending against Tobirama constantly by even forming a mental thought to activate Oral Rebirth. Though on the contrary, Orochimaru's preternatural resilience isn't intertwined with Oral Rebirth. Oral Rebirth enables him to escape sticky situations and catch opponent's off-guard, but as illustrated with his survival against Totsuka blade, he clearly has the longevity to resist Tobirama's slashes unscathed. The reason why Orochimaru was immediately staggered by Itachi's kunai slash was because he was already enfeebled by Itachi's Sharingan Genjutsu, something that is impertinent here.
> 
> Unless Tobirama has access to Edo Tensei and decimates Orochimaru with explosives, Orochimaru would tank everything Tobirama has to offer and win eventually.


Looks like there are only two tobirama fans in the NBD


----------



## Parallaxis (Mar 10, 2017)

Tobirama is too fast for anything Orochimaru dishes out, unless you think the guy who was getting ragdolled by KN4 is faster than Juubito - who Tobirama reacted to, placed explosive tags on, and formed a FTG seal on, with one hand. His summons are non factor as he simply uses severing wave to cut them open or blow them to bits with GFK, which Oral Rebirth isn't going to save him from.

Tobirama wins this.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## Parallaxis (Mar 10, 2017)

Seekingsoul said:


> Still Tandem explosive tags is an impressive jutsu by itself. Probably on par with an enormous bomb.


It's explosion radius dwarfed Hashirama's Myojinmon gates, the same gates which were comparable in span to the Juubi's tails, the same tails which were bigger than the Hachibi and the Kyuubi. Yeah, GFK negs Orochimaru.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Mar 10, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Looks like there are only two tobirama fans in the NBD



 Not sure what you're talking about. I agreed that Orochimaru wouldn't be casting Oral Rebirth in response to Tobirama's speed since Tobirama speed is far too great for Orochimaru to respond to, but I still claimed that Orochimaru still wins since his longevity isn't dependent on Oral Rebith. Even without it, he still scoffed at Itachi after having been penetrated by his Totsuka Blade. Nothing in Tobirama's arsenal would wound Orochimaru even if he fails to use Oral Rebirth unless he had access to his Edo Tensei.


----------



## Serene Grace (Mar 10, 2017)

UchihaX28 said:


> Not sure what you're talking about. I agreed that Orochimaru wouldn't be casting Oral Rebirth in response to Tobirama's speed since Tobirama speed is far too great for Orochimaru to respond to, but I still claimed that Orochimaru still wins since his longevity isn't dependent on Oral Rebith. Even without it, he still scoffed at Itachi after having been penetrated by his Totsuka Blade. Nothing in Tobirama's arsenal would wound Orochimaru even if he fails to use Oral Rebirth unless he had access to his Edo Tensei.


Lol I was saying you and me were the only two tobirama fans since you persistently defend him where the NBD usually underrates him, its alright I've seen your consistent respect for himgood post as well, as I completely agree.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Parallaxis (Mar 10, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Lol I was saying you and me were the only two tobirama fans since you persistently defend him where the NBD usually underrates him, its alright I've seen your consistent respect for himgood post as well, as I completely agree.


ARGUS usually pops up too, whenever the "Minato vs Tobirama" thread comes up

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## UchihaX28 (Mar 10, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Lol I was saying you and me were the only two tobirama fans since you persistently defend him where the NBD usually underrates him, its alright I've seen your consistent respect for himgood post as well, as I completely agree.



 Oh okay, I interpreted that was a spiteful joke, but I'm glad that's not the case.

 I give him respect where its due since he is underrated by some members in this community. The only area where he gains respect is against Itachi, but that's obviously no surprise.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Mithos (Mar 10, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Y'all are crazy. If Itachi can cut clean through Oro's hand, then FTG slashes to the throat will warrant Oral Rebirth; which is not an attack that Oro can spam. Tobirama has the speed and reflexes to never be touched in this battle while Oro clearly does not. I'd side with Tobirama wearing Oro down with consecutive FTG attacks rather than Oro tagging someone that has better speed feats and FTG. A lot of this also changes depending on restrictions. If Oro is restricted to Part 1 Edo and Tobirama has his low level Edo than Tobirama would nuke Oro with infinite explosions.



Do you see Tobirama wearing down the Yamata no Orochi? I don't think Tobirama can do enough damage to it to threaten the White Snake regenerative powers. Add in that Orochimaru can still attack with the Kusanagi and other jutsu while using it, and Tobirama would be in trouble, I think. 

Can Tobirama deal with Yamata no Orochi + 10,000 snakes + Manda + extended-Kusanagi + whatever elemental ninjutsu Orochimaru decides to use? Between all that, I see Tobirama getting bitten eventually, at which point he succumbs to poison/the curse seal. Remember: Tobirama was killed by ~20 ninja, so despite his FTG, he can still get hit when against superior numbers - Orochimaru certainly has that in spades when we factor in his snakes. Orochimaru is also crafty and can plant small snakes on an enemy without him noticing, so while dodging and attacking, Tobirama has to worry about a minuscule snake slipping into his clothes/armor.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Veracity (Mar 10, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Looks like there are only two tobirama fans in the NBD


Three..

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Serene Grace (Mar 10, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Three..


welcome, I knew I was forgetting someone

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Veracity (Mar 10, 2017)

Mithos said:


> Do you see Tobirama wearing down the Yamata no Orochi? I don't think Tobirama can do enough damage to it to threaten the White Snake regenerative powers. Add in that Orochimaru can still attack with the Kusanagi and other jutsu while using it, and Tobirama would be in trouble, I think.
> 
> Can Tobirama deal with Yamata no Orochi + 10,000 snakes + Manda + extended-Kusanagi + whatever elemental ninjutsu Orochimaru decides to use? Between all that, I see Tobirama getting bitten eventually, at which point he succumbs to poison/the curse seal. Remember: Tobirama was killed by ~20 ninja, so despite his FTG, he can still get hit when against superior numbers - Orochimaru certainly has that in spades when we factor in his snakes. Orochimaru is also crafty and can plant small snakes on an enemy without him noticing, so while dodging and attacking, Tobirama has to worry about a minuscule snake slipping into his clothes/armor.


Funny cause I actually forgot about Yamata lmao. But I do think it can be dealt with via continuous Suiton streams that would butcher the snake Sasuke style. Tobirama also has his legendary non-canon sword, which would most likely be effective in dealing with Oro in conjunction with Suiton, buts that's pretty much up for interpretation.

At the end of the Day, Tobirama has a much better chance of landing an FTG mark and continually avoiding Oro's attack as his reactions and speed are on complete different levels. I don't see someone as quick and as smart as Tobirama being bitten throughout the battle when homie has a concrete mental defense. Tobirama would be hard pressured to wear Oro down if he doesn't have Edo and I admit that the fight could go either way when considering the numbers advantage Oro logically has. But if you add Part 1 Edo for Oro and Edo for Tobirama, than the latter wins without much trouble. Oro and his entire set are getting wiped clean off the map with infinite explosion no doubt.

I actually don't put much faith in the whole Tobirama was killed by 20 nameless shinobi either. I think the entire scene was created before Kishi decided to gas up Tobirama and Hashirama. I mean the man who created FTG needs to be the decoy for his students to escape? Doesn't make such sense does it ?

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Isaiah13000 (Mar 10, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Y'all are crazy. If Itachi can cut clean through Oro's hand, then FTG slashes to the throat will warrant Oral Rebirth; which is not an attack that Oro can spam.


 He has been shown spamming it without an issue, he is not Hebi Sasuke, so Hebi Sasuke's inability to spam it should not be attributed to him. 





> Tobirama has the speed and reflexes to never be touched in this battle while Oro clearly does not. I'd side with Tobirama wearing Oro down with consecutive FTG attacks rather than Oro tagging someone that has better speed feats and FTG. A lot of this also changes depending on restrictions. If Oro is restricted to Part 1 Edo and Tobirama has his low level Edo than Tobirama would nuke Oro with infinite explosions.


 What about the paralysis poison? How does Tobirama counter that?



PhantomSage said:


> Tobirama is too fast for anything Orochimaru dishes out, unless you think the guy who was getting ragdolled by KN4 is faster than Juubito - who Tobirama reacted to, placed explosive tags on, and formed a FTG seal on, with one hand. His summons are non factor as he simply uses severing wave to cut them open or blow them to bits with GFK, which Oral Rebirth isn't going to save him from.
> 
> Tobirama wins this.


 Orochimaru wasn't getting ragdolled by KN4, he fought evenly with him and overwhelmed him by the end of their battle despite Orochimaru having no arms and his host body beginning to reject him. Tobirama was also only able to do that because he got torn in half, and Orochimaru starts in his true form so Tobirama slicing him up will only result in him being paralyzed and left unable to do anything.


----------



## Veracity (Mar 10, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> welcome, I knew I was forgetting someone


Mad you forgot cause I've been a die hard Tobirama fan from the jump

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Veracity (Mar 10, 2017)

Isaiah13000 said:


> He has been shown spamming it without an issue, he is not Hebi Sasuke, so Hebi Sasuke's inability to spam it should not be attributed to him.  What about the paralysis poison? How does Tobirama counter that?



Part 1 Oro has a 3.5 in stamina. He might not fall as quickly as a Sasuke( literally after one usage) but he definitely isn't spamming the techinque when it's been stated to take immense amounts of chakra. 

Can I get a panel or link for he techinque you are talking about.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Mar 10, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Part 1 Oro has a 3.5 in stamina. He might not fall as quickly as a Sasuke( literally after one usage) but he definitely isn't spamming the techinque when it's been stated to take immense amounts of chakra.
> 
> Can I get a panel or link for he techinque you are talking about.



 That was actually his DB3 Entry during a time where his body was debilitated due to Hiruzen's Shiki Fujin. Later, we're revealed that Orochimaru's Stamina is extraordinary since numerous individuals such as Sasuke and Kabuto who had actually harbored his power had noted that his vitality was incredible and we're later told that Orochimaru can absorb Natural Energy which requires very high stamina as well. Hebi Sasuke has a 3.5 in Stamina, but I don't believe his Stamina would be on par with Orochimaru's.


----------



## Isaiah13000 (Mar 10, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Part 1 Oro has a 3.5 in stamina. He might not fall as quickly as a Sasuke( literally after one usage) but he definitely isn't spamming the techinque when it's been stated to take immense amounts of chakra.


 Err, I believe that was the Third Databook that covers chapters 245 to 402 when it said Orochimaru had a 3.5 in stamina (when he was also weakened). Regardless, Hebi Sasuke was exhausted after one use, whilst Orochimaru could use it multiple times without being shown exhausted. Also, this is Orochimaru after possessing White Zetsu, so he has Hashirama's Regeneration Ability now and Mokuton.



> Can I get a panel or link for he techinque you are talking about.


 After BoS Sasuke sliced Orochimaru up in his true form, he was paralyzed and left defenseless. Orochimaru managed to recover from having this done to him with no damage, and proceeded to state he was immortal and could not be killed. Unless Tobirama can vaporize or seal away Orochimaru, he cannot kill him just by slicing him up and he has no counter to the poison: considering Sasuke with his poison immunity didn't have one.


----------



## Veracity (Mar 10, 2017)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Err, I believe that was the Third Databook that covers chapters 245 to 402 when it said Orochimaru had a 3.5 in stamina (when he was also weakened). Regardless, Hebi Sasuke was exhausted after one use, whilst Orochimaru could use it multiple times without being shown exhausted. Also, this is Orochimaru after possessing White Zetsu, so he has Hashirama's Regeneration Ability now and Mokuton.
> 
> After BoS Sasuke sliced Orochimaru up in his true form, he was paralyzed and left defenseless. Orochimaru managed to recover from having this done to him with no damage, and proceeded to state he was immortal and could not be killed. Unless Tobirama can vaporize or seal away Orochimaru, he cannot kill him just by slicing him up and he has no counter to the poison: considering Sasuke with his poison immunity didn't have one.



Weird how Oro had one entry for Databook stats and weird how he posssessed a maxed out handseals score despite not being able to use his arms at the time.

I don't recall oro being able to spam oral rebirth tbh. All I know for sure is that his regeneration is in connection to his endurance and his stamina isn't limitless, meaning he can be outlasted by slashes to the head and neck; and not the body.

Oro possess Hashirama's regeneration? Where is the indication for that?

The paralysis techinque used by Oro doesn't last forever, hence the reason Sasuke could 
Walk right out the door seconds later. It also doesn't negate mental defenses like FTG, so warping out of its AoE should negate the effects after awhile and then Tobirama can use Bunshin and long range techinques to butcher Oro. If you're assuming Oro is using Yamata and Manda, then I've agreeed that he would be hard pressured to put Oro down without Edo, but if he has Edo then he can reduce Oro to nothing.


----------



## Isaiah13000 (Mar 10, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Weird how Oro had one entry for Databook stats and weird how he posssessed a maxed out handseals score despite not being able to use his arms at the time.


 Well the score also factors in knowledge, Oro still had knowledge on them, just couldn't use them. 



> I don't recall oro being able to spam oral rebirth tbh. All I know for sure is that his regeneration is in connection to his endurance and his stamina isn't limitless, meaning he can be outlasted by slashes to the head and neck; and not the body.


 Well yeah it's not limitless, but it'd take a while for him to get tired. 



> Oro possess Hashirama's regeneration? Where is the indication for that?


 DB4 confirmed that anyone who possesses Hashirama's cells has his regeneration ability, Orochimaru took over a White Zetsu, therefore he has it now in addition to this already potent regenerative abilities. Tobirama even noted that most of Orochimaru's body was comprised of Hashirama's cells when he talked to him. 



> The paralysis techinque used by Oro doesn't last forever, hence the reason Sasuke could
> Walk right out the door seconds later. It also doesn't negate mental defenses like FTG, so warping out of its AoE should negate the effects after awhile and then Tobirama can use Bunshin and long range techinques to butcher Oro. If you're assuming Oro is using Yamata and Manda, then I've agreeed that he would be hard pressured to put Oro down without Edo, but if he has Edo then he can reduce Oro to nothing.


Sasuke did that after he absorbed Oro, who is obviously immune to his own poison, beforehand Sasuke was paralyzed. I know it doesn't negate mental defenses either, but unlike Minato, Tobirama doesn't have a bunch of markers scattered across the battlefield like Minato does. So he doesn't have many places to warp to if any at all, and I agree that he could probably take him out if he had his Edo but I don't believe he does in this scenario.


----------



## Veracity (Mar 10, 2017)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Well the score also factors in knowledge, Oro still had knowledge on them, just couldn't use them.
> 
> Well yeah it's not limitless, but it'd take a while for him to get tired.
> 
> ...



I guess that makes some sense, although I remember handseals covering knowledge *and* ability.


So I guess it's up to if you think Oro hits Tobirama before he overrides his regeneration.

That doesn't really make any sense though... Madara had Hashirama's DNA yet needed to outright steal his life force and Sage Mode to regenerate. Obito has a zestu body and Hashirama DNA yet can't regenerate. Same with Danzo. Idk I could be missing something, but if not ... I'll take feats over Databook any day.

So how long are we going to assume the paralysis lasts? And are we going to assume that the moment Sasuke 'absorbed' Oro's that he instantly gained all his perks without even using his chakra?

Tobirama actually does use FTG V2 in battle( after seeing Minato use it I guess) and will most likely have Bunshin running around the battlefield, which he can directly warp too.

I agree that he would struggle here without Edo. Shameful that Tobirama was presented with such a lackluster offensive arsenal outside of infinite explosions.


----------



## Isaiah13000 (Mar 10, 2017)

Veracity said:


> I guess that makes some sense, although I remember handseals covering knowledge *and* ability.


 It does, but Orochimaru still had a 5 in it, so his knowledge must've been enough to allow him to keep a 5.




> So I guess it's up to if you think Oro hits Tobirama before he overrides his regeneration.
> 
> That doesn't really make any sense though... Madara had Hashirama's DNA yet needed to outright steal his life force and Sage Mode to regenerate. Obito has a zestu body and Hashirama DNA yet can't regenerate. Same with Danzo. Idk I could be missing something, but if not ... I'll take feats over Databook any day.


 When was it stated that Madara needed to steal Hashirama's SM in order to regenerate? He wasn't even impressed by the power of Hashirama's SM whatsoever. Also Obito can regenerate, it just takes a few moments. Danzo is the only exception, and even less of his body is comprised of them in comparison to Obito and especially Orochimaru.



> So how long are we going to assume the paralysis lasts? And are we going to assume that the moment Sasuke 'absorbed' Oro's that he instantly gained all his perks without even using his chakra?


 He doesn't have to use his chakra to gain the perks, and he is noted to be resistant to poison afterwards anyway. So it coming into effect immediately afterwards and allowing him to walk away unfazed, whilst a moment prior he was defenseless makes it obvious that it was due to him absorbing Orochimaru imho. We don't know how long it will last, but it should last long enough for Orochimaru to deliver a fatal attack as shown.



> Tobirama actually does use FTG V2 in battle( after seeing Minato use it I guess) and will most likely have Bunshin running around the battlefield, which he can directly warp too.


 I agree, but he doesn't scatter and mark the battlefield with them. Also, if he and his Kage Bunshins are all simultaneously attacking Orochimaru and slicing him up with their swords and Suiton then wouldn't they all be paralyzed as they're within the same area? Leaving them all open to being taken out?



> I agree that he would struggle here without Edo. Shameful that Tobirama was presented with such a lackluster offensive arsenal outside of infinite explosions.


I'm sure he probably has much more offensive techniques, but he simply lacks the panel time to show it off as do several of the chars in the series.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Trojan (Mar 11, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> - Give Oro his part 1 Edo's that got trashed by Old Hiruzenthey get erased by the explosion as well, blitzed then sealed.



How is he going to seal them?


----------



## GoldGournetChef (Mar 11, 2017)

Hussain said:


> What is his Water-style going to do tho?
> Even if he were able to cut Oro in half, that wouldn't kill him.


That's the thing that's why I said he needed the TET


----------



## Android (Mar 11, 2017)

Ya'll , what with this ridiculous water style : severing waves jutsu wank ?  
You're giving me the impression that it's a FRS or Kirin level

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## Android (Mar 11, 2017)

Hussain said:


> Which will make this a total
> fodderstomps in his favor.


Part 01 ET are garbage , they lost to freaking clones , you said that yourself  
Either way , if they both got their hands on even fodder ET , Tobirama fodderstomps this match up .


Veracity said:


> Y'all are crazy. If Itachi can cut clean through Oro's hand, then FTG slashes to the throat will warrant Oral Rebirth; which is not an attack that Oro can spam.


He used it multiple times in a failing body , he can spam it here .
Not that he'll actually need it , simply regenerating or reforming himself with snakes just like when Naruto cut him in half is enough .


The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Hydra isn't a problem as Suidahana simply cuts them up,


Not only is Suidahana garbage in terms of firepower , but simply cutting the snakes head won't do shit to Hydra .


Hussain said:


> How is he going to seal them?


He's the creator of the Jutsu , perhaps he has some sort of method to seal them ? 
And seriously Torjan , what's with the Tobirama hate ? take it down a notch player


----------



## Serene Grace (Mar 11, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Not only is Suidahana garbage in terms of firepower , but simply cutting the snakes head won't do shit to Hydra


Regardless whether or not its firepower is high is mute, since its mainly for  We've also already seen the Hydras response to cutting, so I see no reason why Tobirama couldn't repeat this feat with suidhana which was cutting branches that were


----------



## Trojan (Mar 11, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Part 01 ET are garbage , they lost to freaking clones , you said that yourself
> Either way , if they both got their hands on even fodder ET , Tobirama fodderstomps this match up .
> 
> 
> ...



1- Why are you assuming it's part 1 ET tho? 
the OP said "whereas this is Orochimaru before being trapped in the Infinite Tsukuyomi without any injuries." this does not indicate that this is part 1 Oro, does it? 

2- Those clones were using the SF, which is a sealing jutsu. Tobirama can't win without a sealing jutsu no matter how fodder they are. 

3- So, we are entering the realm of fan-fiction here? 
He hasn't show any sealing jutsu, nor was he hyped to have some. So, no, this is not an argument to be used. 

4- How am I hating on him exactly?  
I am only stating facts, that's not a downplay.
A: Tobirama cannot use the explosion tags with clones, only with ET. This is a fact, that he himself stated.
B: Tobirama is not the greatest Water-style user. That's misunderstanding, and it got retconned either way.
C: Tobirama does not have any sealing jutsu.

How is that downplaying him? Should I create some fan-fiction jutsu for him in order to not be called "a hater" or something?

Reactions: Disagree 2


----------



## Android (Mar 11, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Regardless whether or not its firepower is high is mute, since its mainly for  We've also already seen the Hydras response to cutting, so I see no reason why Tobirama couldn't repeat this feat with suidhana which was cutting branches that were


The Shinju branches aren't really that durable , and Tobirama's water style : severing waves shouldn't be compared to something like a Totsuka blade , Hydra's power comes from it's regenerating abilities , so Tobirama can cut all he wants , it's useless unless he has something with big AoE firepower .


----------



## Azula (Mar 11, 2017)

Tobirama can win by

1) leaving a mark on orochimaru
2) making a clone
3) having an Edo prepare Gojō Kibaku Fuda
4) have the clone teleport the Edo on Orochimaru just as the chain reaction is about to start

It will take prep and a combination of literally all his techs, but it is a way.


----------



## Android (Mar 11, 2017)

Hussain said:


> - His ET is still better than Tobirama's ET even in part 1 tho.
> - He did not point out that we should give them fan-fiction sealing jutsu tho. So, unless stated otherwise, I won't assume it.
> 
> - Not true, I just don't wank him as people do.
> ...


Know what ? never mind , you won't admit it this way .Here's the deal , i'll be watching over you in all of Tobirama's threads , and when you slip , i'll catch you in the act .
Be careful

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1


----------



## Bonly (Mar 11, 2017)

While people were saying Tobi wins, did any of them show Tobi being immune to Orochi's poison or having knowledge of such to avoid it?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Serene Grace (Mar 11, 2017)

Bonly said:


> While people were saying Tobi wins, did any of them show Tobi being immune to Orochi's poison or having knowledge of such to avoid it?


I said Orochimaru likely wins, if Tobi lacks knowledge on oros poison, but with full knowledge I don't see it being much of a problem


----------



## Mithos (Mar 11, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Funny cause I actually forgot about Yamata lmao. But I do think it can be dealt with via continuous Suiton streams that would butcher the snake Sasuke style. Tobirama also has his legendary non-canon sword, which would most likely be effective in dealing with Oro in conjunction with Suiton, buts that's pretty much up for interpretation.



I don't think slicing it with Suiton would be that effective, though. Remember: Orochimaru wasn't the least bit concerned when Itachi's Susano'o sliced off half of its heads. 



> At the end of the Day, Tobirama has a much better chance of landing an FTG mark and continually avoiding Oro's attack as his reactions and speed are on complete different levels. I don't see someone as quick and as smart as Tobirama being bitten throughout the battle when homie has a concrete mental defense. Tobirama would be hard pressured to wear Oro down if he doesn't have Edo and I admit that the fight could go either way when considering the numbers advantage Oro logically has. But if you add Part 1 Edo for Oro and Edo for Tobirama, than the latter wins without much trouble. Oro and his entire set are getting wiped clean off the map with infinite explosion no doubt.
> 
> I actually don't put much faith in the whole Tobirama was killed by 20 nameless shinobi either. I think the entire scene was created before Kishi decided to gas up Tobirama and Hashirama. I mean the man who created FTG needs to be the decoy for his students to escape? Doesn't make such sense does it ?



We've seen ninja - even someone like Minato - get counter-attacked while attacking out of FTG. It's not unreasonable to assume that 20 highly skilled Jounin could land hits on Tobirama, who hasn't shown nearly as much skill with FTG. Between all of the snakes, including small white snakes that can slip on an opponent, Yamata, and Orochimaru's other ninjutsu, I don't have a hard time seeing him manage to counter attack Tobirama at least once while Tobirama is mid-attack or open after attacking. That one hit could be all it takes: either it severely wounds him or poisons him. 

While I don't want to compare Orochimaru to Madara in any way, Tobirama was also pinned to the ground with chakra rods, suggesting that Madara countered his FTG in CQC with taijutsu. Between that and the Kinkaku Squad example, I don't think Tobirama is supposed to be seen as "untouchable" like this forum often makes him out to be.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Mar 12, 2017)

This isn't a debate, Tobirama is a high kage level.

He avoids with FTG until Orochimaru runs out of stamina from abusing Hydra, and if he doesn't transform he gets blitzed and cut up into pieces over and over until he can no longer conceivably regenerate.

Blood Poison doesn't work unless he abandons his host body, which he can only do every 3 years, considering OP says this is Infinite Tsukuyomi Orochimaru, he has another 2 years, 11 months and 28 days until he can do such again.

Not to mention he would never do when in possession of a Hashirama-DNA, immortal, no-shit, no-piss, no-eat, no-drink organless Zetsu body.

Tobirama was a rival to MS Izuna and killed him. The fastest shinobi in an era with Hashirama and Madara and a healthy, unhindered Uchiha clan, battling alongside/against all three of them. Orochimaru got one paneled by Itachi - twice. Even if you lean on portrayal Orochimaru* has absolutely no chance.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


----------



## Viole (Mar 12, 2017)

Feats > Portrayal

Hiruzen is portrayed to be God of Shinobi
doesnt mean he is doing jackshit to any God or even High tiers or verse


----------



## Bonly (Mar 12, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> I said Orochimaru likely wins, if Tobi lacks knowledge on oros poison, but with full knowledge I don't see it being much of a problem



So Tobi would need an knowledge advantage he normally wouldn't have(and doesn't have here) to beat Orochi. I see


----------



## Veracity (Mar 12, 2017)

Isaiah13000 said:


> It does, but Orochimaru still had a 5 in it, so his knowledge must've been enough to allow him to keep a 5.
> 
> 
> When was it stated that Madara needed to steal Hashirama's SM in order to regenerate? He wasn't even impressed by the power of Hashirama's SM whatsoever. Also Obito can regenerate, it just takes a few moments. Danzo is the only exception, and even less of his body is comprised of them in comparison to Obito and especially Orochimaru.
> ...


Damn that's some interesting information I didn't notice earlier. It doesn't really change anything here, but it's nice to know that Oro is more crazy in the regeneration game than I thought. Repeated usage of high level Suiton and FTG slashes can still get the job done though.

In order to use paralyzing doesn't Oro have to give up his body which can only be done every 3 years or..?

He doesn't need to scatter and mark the battlefield( though I think he would given his intelligence) if he can utilize tagged Kunai per canon and is linked to his Bunshin by default. Which also gives him the option to instantly switch places with a Bunshin using the FTG combo him and Minato used; which is completely untraceable as it's instant movement between identical bodies. Homie won't really be touched, especially considering the restrictions on Oro's poison; being only from his true body and what not.

How large do you think the AoE of Oro's poison is lol? It's not continent level. He has Bunshin capable of firing Suiton streams from over 100m away and scaling would indicate he could produce Suiton as large as Madara's intial Katon against the alliance. He's in good hands in the range game.








Mithos said:


> I don't think slicing it with Suiton would be that effective, though. Remember: Orochimaru wasn't the least bit concerned when Itachi's Susano'o sliced off half of its heads.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was one slice. Oro's ability to stay alive is contingent upon his stamina levels. He isn't being sliced apart forever, he's going to exhaust eventually. They both have large chakra reserves, difference is that Tobirama's arsenal isn't as exhausting as Oro's.

Tobirama isn't Minato. His _*nerfed clone*_ was teleporting in and placing his attacks onto Juubito. His footspeed alone allows him to overwhelm characters with reactions on War Arc Sage Naruto's level; which is clearly superior to that  of Oro. Couple that with mass scale Bunshin, marked Kunai + FTG and Oro doesn't have a single thing in his arsenal capable of actually touching Tobirama.

I'm not really going to take the Kin Force example seriously as that was clearly Tobirama before Kishi enhanced him in the War Arc. The entire scene spells that out for you. The man who created FTG, who canonically has seals placed throughout Konoha and who warped Bjuii Mode Minato and Naruto, has to put his life on the line as a decoy? So he couldn't have just warped everyone to Konoha? Yeah that's because Kishi didn't flesh his character out properly at that point and was forced to stick with it throughout the manga.

Let's not underestimate his ability with FTG. The difference between him and Minato is marked Kunai and FTG Barrier that's literally it. The first can be achieved through manually tagging Kunai and the latter can be achieved through Kage Bunshin. Oro still doesn't have the means to touch Tobirama.

See I wouldn't have a hard time believing Oro could hit Tobirama either if it wasn't for Tobirama's tactical superiority, his support via Bunshin and his ability to mentally react to God tiers using FTG. That seals the deal for me.

I'm not going to entertain a comparison between Madara and Oro as the gap in reflexes/speed is astronomical. Nerfed Tobirama without the aid of Bunshin was probabaly caught off guard by flash Sussano and Deva Path abilities; all of which are a lot more efficient than anything in Oro'a aresenal.

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## Gohara (Mar 12, 2017)

Tobirama wins with low to mid (closer to mid than low) difficulty in my opinion.  Orochimaru is more powerful than the average Kage but I don't see Mini 4 Tails Naruto putting up a good to great match up against Tobirama nor do I see Itachi besting Tobirama with a stare.  I do think that Itachi is more powerful than Tobirama but I think that it would be a good match up.  Both characters are versatile but Tobirama's feats and portrayal seem superior.

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## GoldGournetChef (Mar 12, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Ya'll , what with this ridiculous water style : severing waves jutsu wank ?
> You're giving me the impression that it's a FRS or Kirin level


Ofc it could cut the shinju


----------



## UchihaX28 (Mar 12, 2017)

Tobirama's Suiton can match Hiruzen's Ninjutsu, so they're obviously pretty damn strong, especially if it were fashioned into a blade. Pa's inferior stream managed to cleave through the thick metal pipes of Amegakure and proceeded to bisect Pain's Chameleon with upmost ease for instance. No reason why Tobirama cannot accomplish such a remarkable feat as well.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Android (Mar 12, 2017)

GoldGournetChef said:


> Ofc it could cut the shinju


No , it cut the Shinju _branches_ which aren't durable at all .


----------



## Veracity (Mar 12, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> No , it cut the Shinju _branches_ which aren't durable at all .


What makes you think the branches aren't durable?


----------



## GoldGournetChef (Mar 12, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> No , it cut the Shinju _branches_ which aren't durable at all .


Says who those branches where made from the juubi body that took its own BD


----------



## Android (Mar 12, 2017)

Veracity said:


> What makes you think the branches aren't durable?


Because they didn't show any durability feats ? i mean , werent the SA fodders cutting them off ?
The Shinju's main body is just damn durable tho, Night Guy barely was able to crack it .


----------



## Android (Mar 12, 2017)

Veracity said:


> What makes you think the branches aren't durable?


No , The Shinju =/= The Juubi in durability .
The Shinju was cut down by a YRS while the Juubi tanked it's own TBB twice , one of them detonating inside it's body


----------



## Veracity (Mar 12, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Because they didn't show any durability feats ? i mean , werent the SA fodders cutting them off ?
> The Shinju's main body is just damn durable tho, Night Guy barely was able to crack it .


I only remember Mifune, Tobirama, Oro/Hiruzen, and killer bee breaking the branches on panel.

Mifune is the goat of the samurai who can already cut through steel with ease. He also had Kyuubi cloak which increases his power.

Hiruzen was using Enma, who's super hyped and gased + stalemated Oro's legendary sword.

Killer Bee doesn't make sense using Samehada but he cut really tiny branches and is physically impressive.  

Tobirama was slicing through massive branches like butter.

The branches aren't super impressive but I think they were atleast made out to be a little harder than steel.


----------



## Android (Mar 12, 2017)

GoldGournetChef said:


> Says who those branches where made from the juubi body that took its own BD





Veracity said:


> The branches aren't super impressive but I think they were atleast made out to be a little harder than steel.


Armless Minato , with his regular FTG Kunais , using his mouth was cutting the thick branches that were holding the Infinit Tsukuyomi victims , let's not pretend they're really durable .


----------



## GoldGournetChef (Mar 12, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> No , The Shinju =/= The Juubi in durability .
> The Shinju was cut down by a YRS while the Juubi tanked it's own TBB twice , one of them detonating inside it's body


But the shinju was spawned from the juubi's body 
It could also mean naruto YRS is continental in AP


----------



## GoldGournetChef (Mar 12, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Armless Minato , with his regular FTG Kunais , using his mouth was cutting the thick branches that were holding the Infinit Tsukuyomi victims , let's not pretend they're really durable .


Does are not the type of branches we are talking about I mean just looking at them will tell you how durable they are


----------



## Viole (Mar 12, 2017)

Lol when people keep comparing oro to kn4 fight when he was half dead ,had no jutsu had no arms

While oro in fight has arms, has body strong enough to fully restraint 2nd+3rd+4th kage in et to point of making them unable to move and this was same 2nd who was realaeasing chakra enough to shake shit earlier with a finger
 Tl Dr et can not be restrained by user unless the said user is equal or stronger and in this tobirama case oro had to be superior in body because tobirama clearly stated he was brought at almost full power and since it's his jutsu he can easily break the control before being bitchslapped by oro in face.

Only one oro couldn't fully supress was hashirama.

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## Trojan (Mar 12, 2017)

Viole1369 said:


> Lol when people keep comparing oro to kn4 fight when he was half dead ,had no jutsu had no arms
> 
> While oro in fight has arms, has body strong enough to fully restraint 2nd+3rd+4th kage in et to point of making them unable to move and this was same 2nd who was realaeasing chakra enough to shake shit earlier with a finger
> Tl Dr et can not be restrained by user unless the said user is equal or stronger and in this tobirama case oro had to be superior in body because tobirama clearly stated he was brought at almost full power and since it's his jutsu he can easily break the control before being bitchslapped by oro in face.
> ...


This post is full of BS.


----------



## Viole (Mar 12, 2017)

Maybe read manga then


----------



## Icegaze (Mar 12, 2017)

orochimaru will win
even if tobirama uses edo tensei, orochimaru with better control will simply steal control of them and use them for his own purpose 
tobirama can do damage certainly, however once oro gets in his true form every attack tobirama lands will only help poison him


----------



## JiraiyaFlash (Mar 12, 2017)

Bonly said:


> While people were saying Tobi wins, did any of them show Tobi being immune to Orochi's poison or having knowledge of such to avoid it?


That poison even aint enough to make Sasuke suffer ?! Tobirama far more durable person man. Curseld Seal is another story it can work on Tobirama but he has to catch him first !

PS: Im also agree with Orochimaru's vic over Tobirama.. But this is just lowballing for Tobi.


----------



## Bonly (Mar 12, 2017)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> That poison even aint enough to make Sasuke suffer ?!



Well no shit it didn't make Sasuke suffer, It's a numbing poison, It's not suppose to make people suffer lol.



> Tobirama far more durable person man. Curseld Seal is another story it can work on Tobirama but he has to catch him first !



What feats does Tobi have that make him more durable then Sasuke let alone *far* more durable?



> PS: Im also agree with Orochimaru's vic over Tobirama.. But this is just lowballing for Tobi.



There's nothing lowing ball about it, Tobi has no feats or hints or anything of the sorts that he's immune to poison.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## Serene Grace (Mar 12, 2017)

I'm gonna use the "lol poison blood" argument on Itachi fans for the next Itachi vs Oro thread, and see what happensI wanna see how hypocritical you guys are and the nonsensical bs you'll come up with to defend it, since Itachi isn't immune to poison so he must get one shot like Tobirama.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Viole (Mar 12, 2017)

A person can be planet buster and still be vulnerable to shit like basic poison, that's not low balling. That's how characters work. Stuff like poison, illusion,  need their own immunities then just plan old durability


----------



## Viole (Mar 12, 2017)

The Death eq Strawberry said:


> I'm gonna use the "lol poison blood" argument on Itachi fans for the next Itachi vs Oro thread, and see what happensI wanna see how hypocritical you guys are, since Itachi isn't immune to poison so he must get one shot like Tobirama.


EoS oro should be equal or slightly above him imo anyway.
He gets law balled a lot here . Itachi vs oro doesn't end well cuz canon lol totsuka sword which seals him and is canon , and poison won't be argued cuz Itachi isn't a physical fighter like tobirama and tsukiyomi and amaterasu aren't exactly making his blood spill on him . Ofc they can't also harm him too much and susuano offer a bit of protection too


----------



## Viole (Mar 12, 2017)

Also Itachi will be affected by blood anyway if he slices him manually like sasuke was.( Totsuka doesn't count just saying since it seals)


----------



## Bonly (Mar 12, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> I'm gonna use the "lol poison blood" argument on Itachi fans for the next Itachi vs Oro thread, and see what happensI wanna see how hypocritical you guys are and the nonsensical bs you'll come up with to defend it, since Itachi isn't immune to poison so he must get one shot like Tobirama.



Itachi still has Susanoo as a defense to use unlike Tobi


----------



## Trojan (Mar 12, 2017)

1- The toxic blood is only when Oro uses the white snake.
2- Even if Tobirama were unable to move, he should still be able to use FTG at least.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Viole (Mar 12, 2017)

The seals for jutsu or the action needed is gonna happen magically by itself right


----------



## Trojan (Mar 12, 2017)

The seals will be somewhere in the field. Surely the battle won't just start with Tobirama cutting Oro to pieces in order for that blood
to come out. 

And there is no action needed. He can simply think of using FTG, and that's all about it.


----------



## Viole (Mar 12, 2017)

Just thinking doesn't do shit. No matter what jutsu or shit it is. It must involve a movement or hand seals. There are no magical bullshit jutsus you can do just by thinking. Even ocular jutsus needs eyes movement or speaking it's name in some jutsus case


----------



## JiraiyaFlash (Mar 12, 2017)

Bonly said:


> It's a numbing poison, It's not suppose to make people suffer lol.


Sasuke still finished that fight even in Oro's realm so that "numb" aint gonna help him for win.. Its a effective asset of ORochimaru. Not his strongest ability at all. It cant change this game lol.




Bonly said:


> What feats does Tobi have that make him more durable then Sasuke let alone *far* more durable?


First of all he is a adult senju.. And chakra highly related to physicall attiributes of this series. So ?! 15 y/o Hebi Sasuke not durable than Tobirama.




Bonly said:


> Tobi has no feats or hints or anything of the sorts that he's immune to poison.


I didnt say he is.. But also sasuke aint too but that didnt go fine for Oro in his realm..That was a PIS moment but still we cant create a argument around this poison blood IMO.

Itachi cutted same Orochimaru when Kabuto use it.. And nothing happened to sauce or ITachi too ?! And you cant say Poison cant work cuz edo; Cuz we have Hanzo example.. Maybe cant kill but still have to be effect but it didnt happened. 

IM also say Orochimaru wil win.. but sayin "Tobirama slice him and this is gonna poison him and he is gonna die".. This is just a assumption.


----------



## Viole (Mar 12, 2017)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> Sasuke still finished that fight even in Oro's realm so that "numb" aint gonna help him for win.. Its a effective asset of ORochimaru. Not his strongest ability at all. It cant change this game lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cuz poison only happens when he is white snake form hence only one affected by it was sasuke who faught with said form


----------



## Bonly (Mar 12, 2017)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> Sasuke still finished that fight even in Oro's realm so that "numb" aint gonna help him for win.. Its a effective asset of ORochimaru. Not his strongest ability at all. It cant change this game lol.



Orochi's mental realm isn't the actual physical realm so just because Sasuke wasn't effected in a different realm, that doesn't mean Tobi who is still in the physical realm wouldn't still be effected.



> First of all he is a adult senju.. And chakra highly related to physicall attiributes of this series. So ?! 15 y/o Hebi Sasuke not durable than Tobirama.



So all you got is "hurr durr Senju" as a reason? Might as well say every random Senju person is more durable then Sasuke because "hurr durr Senju"  . Show me proof that a cutting type attack that would work on Sasuke won't hurt Tobi as much. Show me Tobi getting hit by a blunt attack and taking less damage then Sasuke would take. Actually show me something that says Tobi is more durable then Sasuke because if all you got is "hurr durr Senju" then you can take that crap elsewhere.



> I didnt say he is.. But also sasuke aint too but that didnt go fine for Oro in his realm..That was a PIS moment but still we cant create a argument around this poison blood IMO.



There's nothing PIS about it, do you even  know what PIS means to suggest that his poison can be considered a PIS moment?



> Itachi cutted same Orochimaru when Kabuto use it.. And nothing happened to sauce or ITachi too ?! And you cant say Poison cant work cuz edo; Cuz we have Hanzo example.. Maybe cant kill but still have to be effect but it didnt happened.



You're wrong. When Kabuto used Orochi's true form, Sasuke caught Orochi and Itachi held a Susanoo blade to his head but they never cut it. Even when Kabuto used Orochi's true form the second time in Izanami Itachi caught it rather then cutting it.



> IM also say Orochimaru wil win.. but sayin "Tobirama slice him and this is gonna poison him and he is gonna die".. This is just a assumption.



It's not an assumption but more so a fact. Orochi starts in his true form. Tobi lacks knowledge on it. Tobi hurting Orochi will result in his blood spilling which means Tobi will be poisoned and numbed. That leaves him open to be finished off so yeah.


----------



## JiraiyaFlash (Mar 12, 2017)

Bonly said:


> Might as well say every random Senju person is more durable then Sasuke because "hurr durr Senju"


Yeah ı get it your downplay now  every random Senju -> Tobirama ? So nice.




Bonly said:


> So all you got is


all ı need .


Bonly said:


> Show me proof that a cutting type attack that would work on Sasuke won't hurt Tobi as much.


You show a proof about how it will work on Tobirama ?! 




Bonly said:


> There's nothing PIS about it, do you even know what PIS means to suggest that his poison can be considered a PIS moment?


You totaly missunderstanded it. I say PIS to sasuke beating Oro.




Bonly said:


> It's not an assumption but more so a fact


Its a fact as a supportive asset not a fact as a main reason for vic.. Cuz it aint has any feats to nerf someone so badly ! Is it ?! Then show me.




Bonly said:


> That leaves him open to be finished off so yeah.


Which is didnt happened for sasuke case.


----------



## Viole (Mar 12, 2017)

^ I hope you realize oro when did that to sasuke couldnt use single of his jutsu outside snakes cuz no arms, right?

Reactions: Useful 1


----------



## Bonly (Mar 12, 2017)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> Yeah ı get it your downplay now  every random Senju -> Tobirama ? So nice.
> 
> 
> 
> all ı need .



Concession accepted



> You show a proof about how it will work on Tobirama ?!
> 
> Its a fact as a supportive asset not a fact as a main reason for vic.. Cuz it aint has any feats to nerf someone so badly ! Is it ?! Then show me.



All I need to do is post this scan that shows proof that it will work on Tobi, unless you have something to suggest Tobi is immune to poison that is.



> Which is didnt happened for sasuke case.



Well no shit it didn't happen against Sasuke, he wasn't trying to kill Sasuke lol. On the otherhand here he is trying so when Orochi charges in, he'll go for the kill.


----------



## JiraiyaFlash (Mar 12, 2017)

Bonly said:


> that shows proof that it will work on Tobi


Are they exact same person who has exact same physical attiributes.. And you can show me what happened after those page !? Did Sasuke failed or Orochimaru win a  victory cuz of poisoned blood thing ?! Nope !! .. So how can that be a proof..

This is a suggestion not a proof.. 

If ı can share a scan that Konohamaru beat a pain body.. Then we can say Konohamaru stronger than many jonins in the series ?! 


Bonly said:


> he wasn't trying to kill Sasuke lol


This is irrelevant to your argument.

Without IC or with it.. Poisonous blood was there and it affected Sasuke and this aint create any greater chance to Oro for capturing Sasuke.. That fack aint changed.. So how he is gonna take out Tobirama cuz of *just/only* this ?!

You rely only one asset your entire argument and that asset or ability or attiribute or feat what you wanna call aint matter.. 

That thing is so arguable due to lack of succesfull feat.


----------



## Veracity (Mar 12, 2017)

Viole1369 said:


> Just thinking doesn't do shit. No matter what jutsu or shit it is. It must involve a movement or hand seals. There are no magical bullshit jutsus you can do just by thinking. Even ocular jutsus needs eyes movement or speaking it's name in some jutsus case


Link removed

Link removed

Link removed

Link removed

Link removed

Link removed


----------



## Bonly (Mar 12, 2017)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> Are they exact same person who has exact same physical attiributes.. And you can show me what happened after those page !? Did Sasuke failed or Orochimaru win a  victory cuz of poisoned blood thing ?! Nope !! .. So how can that be a proof..



Sasuke fell to his knees after it and it allowed Orochi to charge in at Sasuke as Sasuke could only watch. Stop being stupid or stop trolling and acting like that had nothing to do with the reason why Orochi lost to suggest it won't work on Tobi. We might as well all be stupid and say CST can't kill anyone since it never did or claim that a Bijuudama from any Bijuu that's not the Juubi won't kill since it hasn't or claim that Jinton can't kill anyone because it hasn't actually killed anyone or claim that Kirin can't kill anyone because it hasn't, might as well claim Sasori's poison can't kill anyone because it hasn't happened, etc. . Sometimes you gotta use this cool thing called common sense 



> This is irrelevant to your argument.



I stopped reading here. You'd have to be an idiot to think Orochi having killing intent is irrelevant. You're counter argument rest on the fact that Orochi didn't win and his intent clearly is relevant. Do something useful and bring me proof that Tobi is immune to poison to suggest that he won't be left wide open and finished off, if not I'll take it as you conceding since you can't back up your point and you're trying to discredit Orochi poison by bringing up Sasuke while acting stupid as if his intentions had nothing to do with it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


----------



## Android (Mar 12, 2017)

Viole1369 said:


> Just thinking doesn't do shit. No matter what jutsu or shit it is. It must involve a movement or hand seals. There are no magical bullshit jutsus you can do just by thinking. Even ocular jutsus needs eyes movement or speaking it's name in some jutsus case


You're kidding right ? 
Hiraishin takes a thought in order to be activated .
Not just Hiraishin , Chakra Modes , Susanoo , Gakido , Shinra Tensei ... etc


----------



## JiraiyaFlash (Mar 13, 2017)

Bonly said:


> to suggest it won't work on Tobi.


I never said "ıt wont work" ı said "it cant put him down for ever"

After all ORochimaru make Sasuke numb ok. But Sasuke still able to use genjutsu and then this happened.

More blood spilled


And our man looks fine !!




Bonly said:


> We might as well all be stupid and say CST can't kill anyone since it never did or claim that a Bijuudama from any Bijuu that's not the Juubi won't kill since it hasn't or claim that Jinton can't kill anyone because it hasn't actually killed anyone or claim that Kirin can't kill anyone because it hasn't, might as well claim Sasori's poison can't kill anyone because it hasn't happened, etc.


Why did you say those to me ı dont get it.. I never said "Poison cant effect him" I just said "Its not good for finish things per canon" ?! So you kinda categorized me with your own toughts ..

You call me stupid and idiot.. But you're the dull one in this argument..

First of all ı never said "Tobirama immuned to poison" !! So you're wrong.. And ı never said "Orochimaru KI not important" I just try to say "with KI or w/o it, Poison still had same effect.. And that poison wasnt good enough to stay put Sasuke"

After all,Sasuke still able to use genjutsu and than probably Tobirama still can teleport, he dont have to move.. And due to per canon feat that numb effect didnt take long per canon.




Bonly said:


> Sometimes you gotta use this cool thing called common sense


You saying this but then ask me the proof why Tobirama is more durable than Sasuke ha ?! Definition of being hypocrite.

And keep insulting me not make your argument better.. I kinda reproaching about this..


Oro use that poison on a guy who is inferior to Tobirama and it didnt go well but you still put this poison thing to center of your argument about Oro's victory over Tobirama ?! And ım the idiot  (dont get me wrong ı dont try to call you as idiot but its kinda irrelevant)


----------



## Isaiah13000 (Mar 16, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Damn that's some interesting information I didn't notice earlier. It doesn't really change anything here, but it's nice to know that Oro is more crazy in the regeneration game than I thought. Repeated usage of high level Suiton and FTG slashes can still get the job done though.


 From a distance perhaps, but not up close. 



> In order to use paralyzing doesn't Oro have to give up his body which can only be done every 3 years or..?


 Yes, but in this scenario in this thread he's already starting out in his true form. 



> He doesn't need to scatter and mark the battlefield( though I think he would given his intelligence) if he can utilize tagged Kunai per canon and is linked to his Bunshin by default. Which also gives him the option to instantly switch places with a Bunshin using the FTG combo him and Minato used; which is completely untraceable as it's instant movement between identical bodies. Homie won't really be touched, especially considering the restrictions on Oro's poison; being only from his true body and what not.
> 
> How large do you think the AoE of Oro's poison is lol? It's not continent level.


 I'm not suggesting that Orochimaru is going to be keeping up with Tobirama when he's using Flying Thunder God. I'm suggesting Tobirama would start slicing up Orochimaru, get paralyzed, his Shadow Clones all get paralyzed too due to being so close to him, and then they're all left defenseless as Orochimaru eats them. Even with Tobirama's level of intelligence, he's never bothered to employ the methods that Minato has aside from Second Step so I wouldn't bet on him bothering to scatter kunai all over the field.  Also, I'm not sure how big the range of Orochimaru's poison is cause it's never been disclosed but considering he'd be getting slashed up countless times and his blood itself is poisonous and evaporates into the air around him it'd probably spread and hit Tobirama who'd probably be standing only several meters away from him.



> *He has Bunshin capable of firing Suiton streams from over 100m away and scaling would indicate he could produce Suiton as large as Madara's intial Katon against the alliance. He's in good hands in the range game.*


 I agree that Tobirama can utilize Water Release techniques across a large distance but what proof do you have he can use his Water Release: Water Severing Wave across more than a hundred meters?


----------



## Veracity (Mar 16, 2017)

Isaiah13000 said:


> From a distance perhaps, but not up close.
> 
> Yes, but in this scenario in this thread he's already starting out in his true form.
> 
> ...



So he's starting out in his true form with all the zetsu and Hashirama benefits?

Why would all of Tobirama's Bunshin be in the same place? Naturally he'd have them spread out to avoid attacks with large AoE, or atleast a clone on reserve in case shit goes wrong.

Tobirama hasn't had the panel time to display techinques like such. He's only had panel time against a Juubi Jin in which those methods were fruitless. I don't see why Tobirama would not attempt to mark the battlefield and if he doesn't, them Bunshin suffice.

Tobirama has the hype to use water walls and water sprouts which fodder shinobi can use. He should atleast be able to do massive sized water dragons, as Kakashi could do them and he has zero rep with Suiton, while Tobirama is hyped for his Suiton.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------

