# Who's more overrated in the current NBD: Jiraiya or War Arc Kakashi?



## Kisame (Jul 16, 2019)

?


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Jul 16, 2019)

Jiraiya. Most people around here don’t seem to rank Kakashi that highly.


----------



## Hina uzumaki (Jul 16, 2019)

Jiraya for me
WA kakashi seems to be rated fairly

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ShinAkuma (Jul 16, 2019)

WA Kakashi by virtue of the sheer depth of overrating.

There _might be_ (debatable) less dudes who overrate Kakashi, but the amount he is overrated puts everybody except Gai to shame.


----------



## Omote (Jul 16, 2019)

Jiraiya opens every fight against people that can one shot him with a glance with Time Stop Jutsu and smoke bombs to block your LoS


----------



## Grinningfox (Jul 16, 2019)

Jiraiya has been consistently wanked 

Kakashi is seeing a spike in wank sure but something has to be said for consistent behavior


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Jul 16, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> WA Kakashi by virtue of the sheer depth of overrating.
> 
> There _might be_ (debatable) less dudes who overrate Kakashi, but the amount he is overrated puts everybody except Gai to shame.


A handful of people overrate Gai. He’s generally underrated. He’s overrated far less than Jiraiya IMO.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ShinAkuma (Jul 16, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> A handful of people overrate Gai. He’s generally underrated. He’s overrated far less than Jiraiya IMO.



The same thing applies to Gai - those who overrate him do so by astronomical margins.


----------



## t0xeus (Jul 16, 2019)

Jiraiya and it's not even close.

The level of fanfic people go to just to justify him winning every match on here is absurd.

His Boss Summons counter: flying, being outnumbered, large-scale attacks, any physical attacks
His Frog Call works on high-kage level opponents, stunning them for the whole duration.
Yomi Numa doesn't get countered by anything, not even chakra-absorption.
His Katon+Oil combo gets through Gaara's Sand defense, through Suiton wall, through Daikodan...

Basically every technique he uses is suddenly ten times stronger when a Jiraiya fan is arguing.


----------



## Tri (Jul 16, 2019)

lol easily Kakashi.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Jul 16, 2019)

Jiraiya by far, War Kakashi is actually underrated


----------



## Bonly (Jul 16, 2019)

Kakashi easily  while Jiraiya is starting to get underrated

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Trojan (Jul 16, 2019)

it's between itachi & Tobirama If I must say...


----------



## Shazam (Jul 16, 2019)

Kakashi.


----------



## Zembie (Jul 16, 2019)

Both is the only right answer.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Jul 16, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> WA Kakashi by virtue of the sheer depth of overrating.
> 
> There _might be_ (debatable) less dudes who overrate Kakashi, but the amount he is overrated puts everybody except Gai to shame.


How about you give three examples from three different posters (i.e. one example per poster) to support your assertion that WA Kakashi is deeply overrated?


ShinAkuma said:


> The same thing applies to Gai - those who overrate him do so by astronomical margins.


Care to give some actual examples lol?



Tri said:


> lol easily Kakashi.


Trash post. Care to provide some examples please?



Bonly said:


> Kakashi easily  while Jiraiya is starting to get underrated


Examples please?

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## ShinAkuma (Jul 16, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> How about you give three examples from three different posters (i.e. one example per poster) to support your assertion that WA Kakashi is deeply overrated?



Sure no problem!



Take your pick. It's a Kakashi overration buffet!


----------



## JJ Baloney (Jul 16, 2019)

Hussain said:


> it's between itachi & Tobirama If I must say...


Wasn't it you who thought 
SM Jiraiya > SM Kabuto?


----------



## Mad Scientist (Jul 16, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> Sure no problem!
> 
> 
> 
> Take your pick. It's a Kakashi overration buffet!



My Profile is badass. 

​
LOL.



Can't even provide examples.



Hahahahahaha!!



Lewd man strikes again!



Why did you claim what you cannot back?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Trojan (Jul 16, 2019)

Wrecked Baloney said:


> Wasn't it you who thought
> SM Jiraiya > SM Kabuto?


Yes...


----------



## Shazam (Jul 16, 2019)

Wrecked Baloney said:


> Wasn't it you who thought
> SM Jiraiya > SM Kabuto?



You should be talking to that guy who thinks Kakashi is faster than KCM Naruto and the dude who places 7th Gate Gai over EMS Sasuke


----------



## JJ Baloney (Jul 16, 2019)

Shazam said:


> You should be talking to that guy who thinks Kakashi is faster than KCM Naruto and *the dude who places 7th Gate Gai over EMS Sasuke*


Ok, what does this have to do with this thread? Unless they are the same person.


----------



## Tri (Jul 16, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Trash post. Care to provide some examples please?


I can basically use any of your Kakashi circle jerk group’s posts on Kakashi on why he’s overrated. Like when Santoryu tried twisting all logic to make it seem like Obito didn’t throw his fight and Kakashi held his own, or any of maru and Crimson Flam3s troll posts, or any of your nonsensical posts where you try to put the masters on the same level as KCM Naruto. Basically anything y’all say are pretty good examples of Kakashi’s wankery.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Santoryu (Jul 16, 2019)

Tri said:


> I can basically use any of your Kakashi circle jerk group’s posts on Kakashi on why he’s overrated. Like when Santoryu tried* twisting all logic* to make it seem like Obito didn’t throw his fight and Kakashi held his own,




Curious to seeing you back this up?


----------



## TruestArtXI (Jul 16, 2019)

Kakashi is more overrated here any argument with him with someone who's near his level will have someone just saying "Kamui Snipe GG".


----------



## Crimson Flam3s (Jul 16, 2019)

Tri said:


> I can basically use any of your Kakashi circle jerk group’s posts on Kakashi on why he’s overrated. Like when Santoryu tried twisting all logic to make it seem like Obito didn’t throw his fight and Kakashi held his own, or any of maru and Crimson Flam3s troll posts, or any of your nonsensical posts where you try to put the masters on the same level as KCM Naruto. Basically anything y’all say are pretty good examples of Kakashi’s wankery.



Someone's mad their fav character can't Kamui GG


----------



## Shazam (Jul 16, 2019)

Wrecked Baloney said:


> Ok, what does this have to do with this thread? Unless they are the same person.



???

Its about who is wanked and who isnt around here


----------



## JJ Baloney (Jul 16, 2019)

Shazam said:


> ???
> 
> Its about who is wanked and who isnt around here


Because you brought up Gai and Sasuke in a thread _that isn't about either of them_. Unless that person also wanks Kakashi.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Crimson Flam3s (Jul 16, 2019)

TruestArtXI said:


> Kakashi is more overrated here any argument with him with someone who's near his level will have someone just saying "Kamui Snipe GG".



What do you expect people to say when the likes of Deidara did nothing but run away and barely escape from getting his head sniped off by a *Novice MS Kakashi*?

Guess we should all think he would never use it offensively during a fight and ignore the fact that he attempted or implied so multiple times during the manga.

Funniest part about it is that most arguments against Kamui GG attack Kakashi's mindset, trying to come up with a convoluted reason as to why he won't use it, even though it makes sense. Because deep down they know that when he decides to use it and most opponents are within LoS, it's all over.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ShinAkuma (Jul 16, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> My Profile is badass.
> 
> ​
> LOL.
> ...



If extreme and violent Kakashi wank = Badass I guess you are correct?


----------



## Mad Scientist (Jul 16, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> If extreme and violent Kakashi wank = Badass I guess you are correct?


Nah man, .


----------



## Shazam (Jul 16, 2019)

Wrecked Baloney said:


> Because you brought up Gai and Sasuke in a thread _that isn't about either of them_. Unless that person also wanks Kakashi.



Gai is wanked along with Kakashi in most cases because it's a package duo thing:ie masters threads. 

Sasuke is not involved at all, it's just the example in where he dominates unless you wank the masters. 

I'm not sure you are here to agree or disagree with that

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Serene Grace (Jul 16, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Trash post. Care to provide some examples please?


Example? Bud just go through _your_ recent post history


----------



## JJ Baloney (Jul 16, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Gai is wanked along with Kakashi in most cases because it's a package duo thing:ie masters threads.
> 
> Sasuke is not involved at all, it's just the example in where he dominates unless you wank the masters.
> 
> I'm not sure you are here to agree or disagree with that


Ok, so does this person who ranks 7 Gates Gai higher than EMS Sasuke wank Kakashi or not???? 


Because we are literally in a thread where we are wondering if Jiraiya or Kakashi is wanked more.


----------



## ShinAkuma (Jul 16, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Example? Bud just go through _your_ recent post history



Great minds think alike! 

I just posted a link to his profile page for these requested "examples".


----------



## Shazam (Jul 16, 2019)

Wrecked Baloney said:


> Ok, so does this person who ranks 7 Gates Gai higher than EMS Sasuke wank Kakashi or not????
> 
> 
> Because we are literally in a thread where we are wondering if Jiraiya or Kakashi is wanked more.



Most usually yes and mostly more than one poster doing it


----------



## Mad Scientist (Jul 16, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Example? Bud just go through _your_ recent post history


What a stupid statement. If I was biased/overrating Kakashi, why would you expect me to notice? How about you get off your high horse and give me a mere *two examples* of my overrating.



ShinAkuma said:


> Great minds think alike!
> 
> I just posted a link to his profile page for these requested "examples".



Nice, equally stupid. Stop being lazy and show some actual examples.


----------



## Serene Grace (Jul 16, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> What a stupid statement. If I was biased/overrating Kakashi, why would you expect me to notice? How about you get off your high horse and give me a mere *two examples* of my overrating.


> Kakashi being faster than KCM Naruto. Check

> Raiden being more impressive than Kirin. Check

> Kakashi moving as fast as 6 gated guy. Check


> Kakashi beating any high kage of the likes of EMS Sasuke or anyone around that tier. Check

> Kakashi can warp a bjuii without bjuii chakra, despite the man him fucking himself saying he needed it to accomplish it. Check 

You got the point or shall I continue?

Kakashi is way too strong for you to be using shitty ass arguments like this to defend him, it not only makes the actual Kakashi fans that look know how to debate look bad, but it also makes people view Kakashi as a wanked character

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Santoryu (Jul 16, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You yourself have stated that Kakashi can beat Itachi. Unless you think he's not a high tier?


----------



## ShinAkuma (Jul 16, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Nice, equally stupid. Stop being lazy and show some actual examples.



The Death & The Strawberry murdered ya with the below examples.



The Death & The Strawberry said:


> > Kakashi being faster than KCM Naruto. Check
> 
> > Raiden being more impressive than Kirin. Check
> 
> ...



I'm still lazy tho.


----------



## Serene Grace (Jul 16, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> You yourself have stated that Kakashi can beat Itachi. Unless you think he's not a high tier?


I can’t even remember saying that tbh 

Anyways Itachi is lower high kage for me, don’t really buy into the Amaterasu/Susanoo spamming fanfic anymore than Kamui


----------



## Santoryu (Jul 16, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> I can’t even remember saying that tbh
> 
> Anyways Itachi is lower high kage for me, don’t really buy into the Amaterasu/Susanoo spamming fanfic anymore than Kamui



You did (only a few months ago too). And you even rated Kakashi as a high Kage. So that particular point you raised was hypocritical and cheapens your argument.


----------



## Santoryu (Jul 16, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Ms Sasuke or maybe EMS
> 
> I feel as though I'm reverting to my old opinions of Kakashi( War Arc Kakashi = or =<Canon Itachi). His feats while overplayed at time are blatantly ignored or rejected at times



there's also this


----------



## Serene Grace (Jul 16, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> You did (only a few months ago too). And you even rated Kakashi as a high Kage. So that particular point you raised was hypocritical and cheapens your argument.





Santoryu said:


> there's also this



Nah I believe Kakashi can be compared to Itachi and MS Sasuke, like I believe most high mid kages can

And my opinions of this manga has clearly changed, hence why I used to think Jiraiya was weaker than almost every Akatsuki member.


----------



## Santoryu (Jul 16, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Nah I believe Kakashi can be compared to Itachi and MS Sasuke, like I believe most high mid kages can



That's fine.

But as you yourself noted, Itachi is a high Kage, albeit a weaker one.

So it still makes the original point I quoted a bit suspect.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Jul 16, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> > Kakashi being faster than KCM Naruto. Check


It's not overrating when I clearly explained my points and no one was able to counter mine successfully. 



The Death & The Strawberry said:


> > Raiden being more impressive than Kirin. Check


Quote?



The Death & The Strawberry said:


> > Kakashi moving as fast as 6 gated guy. Check


Quote?



The Death & The Strawberry said:


> > Kakashi beating any high kage of the likes of EMS Sasuke or anyone around that tier. Check


Quote?



The Death & The Strawberry said:


> > Kakashi can warp a bjuii without bjuii chakra, despite the man him fucking himself saying he needed it to accomplish it. Check


Again, no one was able to successfully refute my points on that one. 



The Death & The Strawberry said:


> You got the point or shall I continue?


Please do. This time please provide the quotes so that I can fact-check. 



The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Kakashi is way too strong for you to be using shitty ass arguments like this to defend him, it not only makes the actual Kakashi fans that look know how to debate look bad, but it also makes people view Kakashi as a wanked character


No it doesn't. If what I'm saying makes _me _look bad at debating, so be it. From my experience, those posters who you're probably referring to are actually pretty damn good and even posters like Android (if memory serves) has said that Crimson Flam3s, for example, is actually a neutral poster, so please get your facts straight before posting again. 



ShinAkuma said:


> The Death & The Strawberry murdered ya with the below examples.


Yeah right, lol.


----------



## Zembie (Jul 16, 2019)

WA Kakashi can beat MS Sasuke
SM Jiraiya > SM Kabuto
Jiraiya beating both Itachi and Kisame
Jiraiya beating Itachi if he starts in base
Jiraiya beating FKS Sasuke
WA Kakashi > SM Naruto
WA Kakashi beating A4
Base Jiraiya beating A4

There are other strange things like Jiraiya > Itachi (lul), Jiraiya dodging Amaterasu with smoke bombs and shit, Kakashi's reactions being comparable to KCM Minato's, Kakashi sniping people left and right. The right answer is both no matter how you look at it. The Kakashi wankers are def more nice, so I give them a bonus :3


----------



## Crimson Flam3s (Jul 16, 2019)

@Santoryu

It's a very common trend of associates of the Sannin band to "change their opinions" about "certain characters"(Kakashi), specially lately during the Master vs Sannin War.

It's actually a common trend among members to start underrating, undermining or even as far as hating characters who they might believe are being wanked or too popular in the NBD. Never really cared for the opinion of those who let others affect their judgment of a character.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Ultra Instinct Senjutsu (Jul 16, 2019)

Kakashi is the overrated one in my opinion, and I own multiple shirts and a poster featuring only him on them..

_A_dding my own recipe of BS opinions to the fire;

* It's always "Kamui GG", but, for some reason, I can't remember him every actually GG'ing anyone with it. Ever. Just an arm.
* Kakashi got played by Obito in their fight, yes, Obito threw it and guided Kakashi into using Chidori in the way he planned, regardless of how cool the fight was.
** Kakashi, in his 'best' forms, is a very 'temporary' Kakashi, and it's all borrowed power (Rikudo, MS, DMS, Naruto's Chakra, etc and were ALL in the War Arc) The fact that WA is all Kakashi has, that should prove his wankage requirements.*

_Just to make it worse;_

* Kakashi was nothing to Itachi, who immediately backed down from Jiraiya, this is hard to argue, as everyone seems to hold Itachi to such a standard.
* Jiraiya puts people at "Kakashi's Level" like he did to Kabuto (pre-sage of course)
* Kakashi never 'solos' anyone of merit, _at least off the top of my head._ Hidan, had help. Kakuzu, had help. Zabuza, needed help. Pain, needed help. Sasuke, needed a lot of help. Obito, got played.




Jiraiya not only earned everything he has, but has solid (imo, unquestionable) showings against people who would put Kakashi in a car seat...

Plus, every argument that's usually made in Jiraiya's favor I have seen wanking him (Sage Mode, summonings, elemental arsenal, his reputation, etc) is all things we have facts/showings to back up.

Whereas if you compare Kakashi in any category, legitimately, you can't line him up with Jiraiya

Jiraiya also, and I hate to go there, but has way more self confidence in his abilities than Kakashi, for examples, Kakashi backs down from Orochimaru, a drugged Jiraiya does not, Kakashi is 1-shot by Itachi, Itachi doesn't even try anything vs Jiraiya besides running away.
Jiraiya takes on all 6 Paths of Pain, a single one half assing around nearly puts Kakashi to bed if he didn't get help


----------



## TruestArtXI (Jul 16, 2019)

Ultra Instinct Senjutsu said:


> Kakashi is the overrated one in my opinion, and I own multiple shirts and a poster featuring only him on them..
> 
> _A_dding my own recipe of BS opinions to the fire;
> 
> ...


Soloed the thread

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Turrin (Jul 16, 2019)

I don’t think anyone overrates Jiraiya on the forum currently.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Transcendent Shinobi (Jul 16, 2019)

Itachi.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Mad Scientist (Jul 16, 2019)

TruestArtXI said:


> Soloed the thread


Lol yeah right. First point was terrible. For example, swap BoS Kakashi with WA Kakashi, then Deidara would have been one-shotted almost instantly. Swap "Madara" at Sasuke vs Danzo location with almost anyone, save for a select few, and that Kakashi with WA Kakashi, and they'd also be one-shotted.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## TruestArtXI (Jul 16, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Lol yeah right. First point was terrible. For example, swap BoS Kakashi with WA Kakashi, then Deidara would have been one-shotted almost instantly. Swap "Madara" at Sasuke vs Danzo location with almost anyone, save for a select few, and that Kakashi with WA Kakashi, and they'd also be one-shotted.


But like he said there's no concrete evidence to say he'd one shot someone. Like he said who has Kakashi sent to Box Land Casually as your trying to make it.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Jul 16, 2019)

TruestArtXI said:


> But like he said there's no concrete evidence to say he'd one shot someone. Like he said who has Kakashi sent to Box Land Casually as your trying to make it.


It's not who he has sent, it's only killing intent and ability that matter. 

It's like if you had a match such as JJ Madara vs 6G Lee. JJ Madara would have killing intent and the ability to kill him. Just because he hasn't killed 6G Lee doesn't mean he can't lol. That's basically the argument he's putting forward.

There's plenty of concrete evidence to prove Kakashi wouldn't hesitate in using Kamui if he felt he needed to. The fact he'd try to kill massive entities with Kamui and the fact he was going to attempt Kamui on "Madara" at Sasuke vs Danzo location is enough. It's not just twice though, he's also tried it against Deidara too.

The truth is, there's no basis in suggesting this attitude would be different for WA Kakashi.


----------



## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Jul 16, 2019)

If I started a KCM Naruto or EMS Sasuke or Minato vs Jiraiya thread, nobody would argue Jiraiya wins.


----------



## TruestArtXI (Jul 16, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> It's not who he has sent, it's only killing intent and ability that matter.
> 
> It's like if you had a match such as JJ Madara vs 6G Lee. JJ Madara would have killing intent and the ability to kill him. Just because he hasn't killed 6G Lee doesn't mean he can't lol. That's basically the argument he's putting forward.
> 
> ...


Fair point but you still haven’t told me anyone that Kakashi has Kamui GG’ed.


----------



## Shazam (Jul 16, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> What a stupid statement. If I was biased/overrating Kakashi, why would you expect me to notice? How about you get off your high horse and give me a mere *two examples* of my overrating.





Orochimaruwantsyourbody said:


> If I started a KCM Naruto or EMS Sasuke or Minato vs Jiraiya thread, nobody would argue Jiraiya wins.



But we all know there will be at least a few who'd try and say one of the Masters could solo


----------



## Hardcore (Jul 16, 2019)

Tri said:


> I can basically use any of your Kakashi circle jerk group’s posts on Kakashi on why he’s overrated. Like when Santoryu tried twisting all logic to make it seem like Obito didn’t throw his fight and Kakashi held his own, or any of maru and Crimson Flam3s troll posts, or any of your nonsensical posts where you try to put the masters on the same level as KCM Naruto. Basically anything y’all say are pretty good examples of Kakashi’s wankery.



don't like Kakashi, but Obito purposely losing the fight and taking a chidori in the end doesn't take away his physical stats that matched obito, he even fought V2 Jins so it's covered tbf

on the other hand, many people directly ignore B throwing the fight to escape Kumo, and say MS Sasuke could deal with BM B and Amaterasu would one-shot B


----------



## Hardcore (Jul 16, 2019)

the thing with Kakashi is that he actually has Kamui, and in most of the situations he would lose if he doesn't hit Kamui, he has the chance to beat many opponents if he actually hits it, don't see a lot of wanking

the wank revolving jiraya is real and the numbers doing it is much bigger

my vote goes there


----------



## Shazam (Jul 16, 2019)

Yeah WeakCore doesn't consider 7th Gate Gai > Hashirama and Kakashi being faster than KCM Naruto as being wanked, nope just Jiraiya without providing a logical example from the recent weeks or so.


----------



## Hardcore (Jul 16, 2019)

i thought you had me on ignore 



Shazam said:


> Yeah WeakCore doesn't consider 7th Gate Gai > Hashirama and Kakashi being faster than KCM Naruto as being wanked, nope just Jiraiya without providing a logical example from the recent weeks or so.



never said any of those, never seen them

if I want to argue for the masters

Kakashi has undisputed good physical stats(speed,reactions, striking) as was shown from his encounters with MS Obito and the V2 Jins, and with Kamui that can beat the higher tiers, he could stand a chance to hit it in considerable amounts of cases(definitely not against Hashirama or KCM Naruto)

that much is clear


----------



## Speedyamell (Jul 16, 2019)

Kakashi for sure.
Saying jiraiya beats people that he was portrayed above in the manga is not wank.. And most of the time people are arguing for jiraiya losing to said people.
Whereas it's the exact opposite in kakashi's case.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Jul 16, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Yeah WeakCore doesn't consider 7th Gate Gai > Hashirama and Kakashi being faster than KCM Naruto as being wanked, nope just Jiraiya without providing a logical example from the recent weeks or so.


Weren’t people saying that Jiraiya could keep up with A4’s speed recently?


----------



## Shazam (Jul 16, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Weren’t people saying that Jiraiya could keep up with A4’s speed recently?



No..no they weren't.


----------



## Crimson Flam3s (Jul 16, 2019)

Shazam said:


> No..no they weren't.



Actually, you are the one who said it




Shazam said:


> I have no reason to veer from the story and think Jiraiya and his potential multi boss summon toads would lose especially when he has demonstrated and speed and reactions enough to keep up with V2 A4 and considering Kisame admittedly placed himself under Jiraiya and Kakashi has never held any portrayal to say he wins here either

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Shazam (Jul 16, 2019)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> Actually, you are the one who said it



You literally just planted that in my post ..

Master wankers are becoming desperate


----------



## Crimson Flam3s (Jul 16, 2019)

Shazam said:


> You literally just planted that in my post ..
> 
> Master wankers are becoming desperate



Not my fault you edited it out


*Spoiler*: __ 



Can't take a joke can ya?


----------



## Shazam (Jul 16, 2019)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> Not my fault you edited it out
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Its honestly hard to discern from joke and complete lunacy nowadays


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Jul 16, 2019)

Hardcore said:


> don't like Kakashi, but Obito purposely losing the fight and taking a chidori in the end doesn't take away his physical stats that matched obito, he even fought V2 Jins so it's covered tbf
> 
> *on the other hand, many people directly ignore B throwing the fight to escape Kumo*, and say MS Sasuke could deal with BM B and Amaterasu would one-shot B



Why did you have to bring Sasuke into this? Peep the game tape carefully...Bee only escaped . That's not Bee cutting off his own tentacle to escape, that's Sasuke. And quite frankly I think you are being a BIT BIAS, because when Taka wanted to escape . So BEE didn't throw anything....He lost the minute Amaterasu came out...And sense he opted to Flee instead of, you known, finishing off taka. HE LOST BY DEFAULT.


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Jul 16, 2019)

its simple - who do more think can beat itachi?
thats ur answer

*Spoiler*: _:hint:_ 



its kakashi-san


----------



## savior2005 (Jul 16, 2019)

Both are actually underrated and need to be wanked more.

Jiraiya received a lot of hype from multiple high level ninja and has the ability to defeat jubito without sage mode.

Kakashi was praised by the sage himself and was capable of spamming kamui multiple times. He could have taken ot 10'tails, fought on par with obito, and fought the other jinchuriki.


----------



## Serene Grace (Jul 16, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> It's not overrating when I clearly explained my points and no one was able to counter mine successfully


Haha you lost me here

If you honestly think a stance like that is capable of being defended you’re not bias, you’re outright a lost cause, open your eyes dude even your own respective Kakashi fans were laughing/dismissing that nonsense


----------



## Mithos (Jul 16, 2019)

Kakashi. Anyone saying differently is kidding themselves.


----------



## Semiotic Sacrilege (Jul 16, 2019)

The BD is full of nothing but wanking one way or another. 

Why wank for a boring character like Jiraiya when you can wank for a much better character like Kakashi?


----------



## Hasan (Jul 17, 2019)

Jiraiya, and I don't say this as a Kakashi-supporter; most of the responses [saying it's Kakashi] _in this very thread_ are pretty much _*the*_ responses in most, if not all, Kakashi threads. So, it's quite telling if he _really _is.



The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Haha you lost me here
> 
> If you honestly think a stance like that is capable of being defended you’re not bias, you’re outright a lost cause, open your eyes dude even your own respective Kakashi fans were laughing/dismissing that nonsense


It doesn't matter if you or me or anyone else thinks that a particular stance can't be defended. What is lost on most of you is that this is a _forum_, where people discuss _something_ that can easily be referenced. *[EDIT]* If I think that Kakashi is _KCM Naruto_ level of speed, then I should be able to cite some half-a-dozen scans to establish that point. On the contrary, if I don't believe that, then I should be able demonstrate that as well... I can point out _where_ the mistake is made, and offer what I believe to be the correct explanation of those _nice drawings_. And the thing is you people largely don't.


----------



## Serene Grace (Jul 17, 2019)

Hasan said:


> If I think that Kakashi is _KCM Naruto_ level of speed, then I should be able to cite some half-a-dozen scans to establish that point.


You can cite every scan since part 1 but that doesn’t mean they prove shit, since any poster with common sense knows fucking 3T Kakashi isn’t as fast as KCM Naruto

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## LostSelf (Jul 17, 2019)

As of now, Kakashi has crazier but fewer arguments (save most of Kamui whose only counter is not using it), while Jiraiya has a more consistent overestimation arguments where he (Sannin in general) turns the battle into a RPG turn based battle and the enemy won't move until he uses all his mana first. And the list. Oh, the list...


----------



## Kisaitaparadise (Jul 17, 2019)

Jiraiya


----------



## Hasan (Jul 17, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> You can cite scans but that doesn’t mean they prove shit, since any poster with common sense knows fucking 3T Kakashi isn’t as fast as KCM Naruto


Congratulations, you missed the point. How did you come to the conclusion that _KCM Naruto is fast_, or that Naruto is even a character? By reading the manga. All ideas, _whatever_ they may be, are rooted in the *manga*. Had Kishimoto written Mizuki > Kaguya, any poster with 'common sense' would have argued as such, because that is what the manga would have established. I am making a principle argument that if you wish to argue that _someone_ is wrong, then you need to cite scans—show that person where he or she is making a mistake, and then offer an explanation that you think *aligns with the manga*.

Am I saying that Kakashi is as fast as KCM Naruto? No. I am saying that you and co. aren't exactly doing a good job defending your position, even though you are pretending that you are. Anyone with 'common sense' knows that if you're _*discussing a manga*_, you need to open the collection of volumes resting on your bookshelf [or it's freely available online, even officially]. Kishimoto didn't give us _ingredients_ — character designs, rudimentary concepts — to help us manufacture our own ideas, *his ideas *are vividly conveyed through nice drawings spanning some 1500 pages, accompanied by dialogue, and woven as a _*story*_. We can easily point to an event, and note that so and so ideas are found there.

... and if someone is wrong in arguing those ideas, that can _easily be corrected_ by offering the correct explanation of the said event_._

*EDIT: *_Better_.


----------



## Leaf Hurricane (Jul 17, 2019)

Jiriaya's wank output is as big as his sage art goemon and as deep as his youmi Nouma.
He consistently wanked to high heavens by many people and sometimes the same person twice.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Jul 17, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Haha you lost me here
> 
> If you honestly think a stance like that is capable of being defended you’re not bias, you’re outright a lost cause, open your eyes dude even your own respective Kakashi fans were laughing/dismissing that nonsense


Even if the majority believed otherwise, that doesn't make my points any less true, smartass. How about you try giving some actual examples?



Hasan said:


> Congratulations, you missed the point. How did you come to the conclusion that KCM Naruto is fast, or that Naruto is even a character? By reading the manga. All ideas, whatever they may be, are rooted in the manga. Had Kishimoto written Mizuki > Kaguya, any poster with 'common sense' would have argued as such, because that is what the manga would have established. I am making a principle argument that if you wish to argue that someone is wrong, then you need to cite scans—show that person where he or she is making a mistake, and then offer an explanation that you think aligns with the manga.
> 
> Am I saying that Kakashi is as fast as KCM Naruto? No. I am saying that you and co. aren't exactly doing a good job defending your position, even though you are pretending that you are. Anyone with 'common sense' knows that if you're discussing a manga, one to needs to open the collection of volumes resting on his or her bookshelf [or it's freely available online, even officially]. Masashi Kishimoto didn't give us ingredients — character designs, rudimentary concepts etc. — to help us manufacture our own ideas [preferably to debate hypotheticals], he gave us a story constituting some 1500 pages worth of nice drawings... I can open up a volume, and say: "Hey look at that—! X Character got stabbed... Y Character is sad... Z character is doing pushups"... I can read the ideas that he is conveying through his fantastic art.
> 
> ...


Underrated post.


----------



## Hardcore (Jul 17, 2019)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Why did you have to bring Sasuke into this? Peep the game tape carefully...Bee only escaped . That's not Bee cutting off his own tentacle to escape, that's Sasuke. And quite frankly I think you are being a BIT BIAS, because when Taka wanted to escape . So BEE didn't throw anything....He lost the minute Amaterasu came out...And sense he opted to Flee instead of, you known, finishing off taka. HE LOST BY DEFAULT.



it's the same thing nerd

MS Obito only let Kakashi hit him with chidori in the end

there is absolutely no hint he was holding back before that

and no, he did not lose, he did not say he got tired, he used the substitution and escaped Amaterasu..


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Jul 17, 2019)

Hardcore said:


> it's the same thing nerd
> 
> MS Obito only let Kakashi hit him with chidori in the end
> 
> ...


Question? Do we question if Kakaishi lost to Obito, mate? It's a simple answer.

So the you typed the *BOLD*, which essentially wipes away your three previous excuses. Either way you try to twist it....It....It doesn't look good in regards to Bee. We've already addressed how he manage to pull out such a Substitute jutsu to begin with, and if that HOW is the same person that manage to cast Amaterasu in the first place. What are we debating.

LONG STORY SHORT....Sasuke ONE SHOTTED BEE!(FACTS)


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Jul 17, 2019)

Shark said:


> ?



Maybe it’s just because I’m bias but Jiraiya really doesn’t seem overrated to me, he’s ranked fairly.

I find Kakashi’s Kamui to be a lot more overrated than Jiraiya is, although besides Kamui, Kakashi is a pretty fairly rated character.


----------



## Hayumi (Jul 17, 2019)

J-man without a doubt in my mind. Sure, several people might wank Kakashi, but the Kakashi wank could never come close to comparing to the sheer amount of members on NBD who suck J-man's dick consistently. Imo in general, Kakashi is rated fairly as a whole. Whereas the J-man cult makes Jiraiya seemingly God-Tier


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

okeechobee101 said:


> Whereas the J-man cult makes Jiraiya seemingly God-Tier



Give an example


----------



## t0xeus (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Give an example


Base Jiraiya low diffing Chiyo, Konan and Rasa at once


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> Base Jiraiya low diffing Chiyo, Konan and Rasa at once



Was that thread not stated for Sage Mode Jiraiya? 

And would you consider that wank in comparison to stating Kakashi is faster than KCM Naruto?


----------



## Hayumi (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Give an example


 "J-man's hair counters Amaterasu." The funny thing is, I remember people agreed with that shit. Lmao I love how one of the cult leaders is asking me to give an example.  What's new ShazG?


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

okeechobee101 said:


> "J-man's hair counters Amaterasu." The funny thing is, I remember people agreed with that shit. Lmao I love how one of the cult leaders is asking me to give an example.  What's new ShazG?



No need to be lewd. 

I dont recall this statement being made recently. How long are you reaching back to back your side? When I have much more recent wank of kakashi (and gai).


----------



## t0xeus (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Was that thread not stated for Sage Mode Jiraiya?
> 
> And would you consider that wank in comparison to stating Kakashi is faster than KCM Naruto?


Yeah, but people went off topic and started discussing Base Jiraiya as well.

Well the Jiraiya case is straight up wank as they just go to stupid measures of downplaying teamwork those 3 can use.
The Kakashi case is just retarded interpretation of feats in manga, that happens quite often and with any character.


----------



## Zembie (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> No need to be lewd.
> 
> I dont recall this statement being made recently. How long are you reaching back to back your side? When I have much more recent wank of kakashi (and gai).


Just because something was mentioned a month ago doesn't make it invalid, the posters who hold that opinion still hold it to this day.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> Yeah, but people went off topic and started discussing Base Jiraiya as well.
> 
> Well the Jiraiya case is straight up wank as they just go to stupid measures of downplaying teamwork those 3 can use.
> The Kakashi case is just retarded interpretation of feats in manga, that happens quite often and with any character.



Personally I dont see how Jiraiya with summons and his large AoE and toad oil, then considering he has already one paneled Konan in base and Orochimaru off paneled Rasa would be wank to say he could beat all 3.


----------



## Hayumi (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> No need to be lewd.
> 
> I dont recall this statement being made recently. How long are you reaching back to back your side? When I have much more recent wank of kakashi (and gai).


 The fact that half the people who voted in this thread, voted for Kakashi being wanked more, honestly tells me how many of you J-man cultists are in denial. Sad.


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

okeechobee101 said:


> The fact that half the people who voted in this thread, voted for Kakashi being wanked more, honestly tells me how many of you J-man cultists are in denial. Sad.



You havent answered the question.

How long back are you reaching for claims to back your side? 

This thread is about current


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Just because something was mentioned a month ago doesn't make it invalid, the posters who hold that opinion still hold it to this day.



Was a month or a year? 

It does make a difference since this thread specifies current


----------



## Zembie (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Was a month or a year?
> 
> It does make a difference since this thread specifies current


I said a month ago...


----------



## Hayumi (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> You havent answered the question.
> 
> How long back are you reaching for claims to back your side?
> 
> This thread is about current


 About a month ago? Why does it matter how recent it was??? If anything, the overall wanking since my temporary absence has gotten much worse. Don't try to question the validity of my statement when the time doesnt change the fact that their opinions are still most likely the same.


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

Zembie said:


> I said a month ago...



Could you cite it


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

okeechobee101 said:


> About a month ago? Why does it matter how recent it was??? If anything, the overall wanking since my temporary absence has gotten much worse. Don't try to question the validity of my statement when the time doesnt change the fact that their opinions are still most likely the same.



We can verify if you cite the post


----------



## Zembie (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Could you cite it


I am not going back in time, but we had an Itachi vs Jiraiya thread recently, where (I think it was Turrin or Azula, no idea) said it.


----------



## Hayumi (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> We can verify if you cite the post


 I cant remember the exact thread or date where the comment was said but I remember it clear as day and so do many others. As Zembie is proving. Just ask WS.


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

Zembie said:


> I am not going back in time, but we had an Itachi vs Jiraiya thread recently, where (I think it was Turrin or Azula, no idea) said it.



As I said, it's hard to believe or resolve or understand when you dont cite


----------



## Hasan (Jul 17, 2019)

There you go [].


----------



## Zembie (Jul 17, 2019)

@Hasan Thank you my dude


@Shazam it was Azula, and it was recent, too.


----------



## t0xeus (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Personally I dont see how Jiraiya with summons and his large AoE and toad oil, then considering he has already one paneled Konan in base and Orochimaru off paneled Rasa would be wank to say he could beat all 3.


To beat is not wank, low diff is.

There was someone even saying that Gamabunta won't get hurt by Konan's Paper Bombs because they are featless in terms of damage


----------



## Hayumi (Jul 17, 2019)

Hasan said:


> There you go [].


 Thanks baby.


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

okeechobee101 said:


> I cant remember the exact thread or date where the comment was said but I remember it clear as day and so do many others. As Zembie is proving. Just ask WS.



I also have no reason to believe those mentioned posters wouldnt over inflate the claim or completely leave out that it may have been many months ago


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

Hasan said:


> There you go [].



There is 11 pages.

Can you cite the post?


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> To beat is not wank, low diff is.
> 
> There was someone even saying that Gamabunta won't get hurt by Konan's Paper Bombs because they are featless in terms of damage



Could you cite the paper bomb thing


----------



## Zembie (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> There is 11 pages.
> 
> Can you cite the post?


Jesus fucking christ you're too lazy to check the thread, it's literally the third post



Azula said:


> Clones/smoke bombs/distraction summons counter genjutsu. 2v1 also renders genjutsu in general useless, summoner breaks out summon by tapping it. Simple tactic of not looking in the eye like Gokage v Madara is also effective.
> 
> Amaterasu is stopped by hair and hair is shed off. Amaterasu on summons is countered by fire seal.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Was that thread not stated for Sage Mode Jiraiya?
> 
> And would you consider that wank in comparison to stating Kakashi is faster than KCM Naruto?


I remember someone saying that a Jiraiya would overwhelm Gated Gai in CqC. It might have even been Base Jiraiya IIRC and someone else saying that Jiraiya was significantly above A4.


----------



## t0xeus (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Could you cite the paper bomb thing





> Show me a feat from Konan that can topple a boss summon iimmediately ? Plus once that summon and Jiraiya spam large amount of oil. She wouldnt able to anything.





t0xeus said:


> really, you need a feat to know that Paper Bomb will injure Gamabunta?





> Yes why not ?



Not quoting him directly as I don't want him to get a notification, I've been tagging him quite a lot recently in "Sannin wank" threads and I don't want the guy to dislike me.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> No need to be lewd.
> 
> I dont recall this statement being made recently. How long are you reaching back to back your side? When I have much more recent wank of kakashi (and gai).


I only started regularly posting here a few months ago. I saw it to. It was recent.


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

Hasan said:


> There you go [].





Zembie said:


> @Hasan Thank you my dude
> 
> 
> @Shazam it was Azula, and it was recent, too.





t0xeus said:


> To beat is not wank, low diff is.
> 
> There was someone even saying that Gamabunta won't get hurt by Konan's Paper Bombs because they are featless in terms of damage





okeechobee101 said:


> Thanks baby.



Here is an example of citing a post





I know this is for Gai. But it's just an example of master wank in general. I'll post Kakashi ones as I get cites from you guys


----------



## Zembie (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Here is an example of citing a post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No need, I already quoted the fucking post in question, so you can read it without getting too tired of scrolling ONCE.


----------



## t0xeus (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Here is an example of citing a post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There you go then.


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Jesus fucking christ you're too lazy to check the thread, it's literally the third post



Yes I am not searching through 11 pages hoping to find the post you dislike. Get over it. 

Anyways, Amaterasu can be limited in its effectiveness by a few things, none of which include using hair

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Shazam (Jul 17, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I remember someone saying that a Jiraiya would overwhelm Gated Gai in CqC. It might have even been Base Jiraiya IIRC and someone else saying that Jiraiya was significantly above A4.



Quote the post for context


----------



## Zembie (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Yes I am not searching through 11 pages hoping to find the post you dislike. Get over it.


I literally quoted the fucking post....



> Anyways, Amaterasu can be limited in its effectiveness by a few things, none of which include using hair


None of which Jiraiya possesses.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Here is an example of citing a post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can 8G Gai kill them?


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Quote the post for context


I have to go out soon. I don’t have time to look for it right now. Not that it matters. 7 Gates Gai has a significant speed, strength and skill advantage over Jiraiya. The idea of him getting overwhelmed in the one area that he specializes in with a significant physical advantage is laughable.


----------



## Azula (Jul 17, 2019)

Why am I being summoned in this thread.
Amaterasu affected parts being shed off is literally a tactic that we see working in the manga. Stay salty.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Jul 17, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Quote the post for context





Matto said:


> Jiraiya wins even if V2 were unrestricted.
> 
> He's just on a whole other level than the Fourth Raikage, and despite what A supporters may think, Jiraiya is actually a nightmarish match-up for the Fourth Raikage.
> 
> ...


Here’s one. I’ll try and find the other one when I get back.


----------



## Azula (Jul 17, 2019)

Wank would be claiming Kakashi would decapitate someone with raikiri when he is constantly shown to hit the chest area.

That would be wank.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Hasan (Jul 17, 2019)

Nope.



Hasan said:


> I missed one for each.
> 
> 01. During the Chuunin Exams, when he kills two of the Sound fodders by crushing their skulls.
> 02. Kamui against Deidara; he is trying to aim for the latter's head, when he misses twice.
> ...


----------



## HappyBurrito (Jul 19, 2019)

Hasan said:


> Nope.


*Amazing*


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Jul 19, 2019)

Jiraiya is more consistently wanked, dude is legit never put as low as hes supposed to be and people think hes capable of soloing duos comprised of individuals who kick his ass, although hes not wanked to an extreme

Kakashi is more extreme, as hes usually rated pretty fairly, but his wank when it rears its head shits on Jiraiyas

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Crimson Flam3s (Jul 19, 2019)

Azula said:


> Wank would be claiming Kakashi would decapitate someone with raikiri when he is constantly shown to hit the chest area.
> 
> That would be wank.



He has been shown to go for the head in multiple occasions.


----------



## Symmetry (Jul 19, 2019)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> Someone's mad their fav character can't Kamui GG




What’s funny is that even if the fanfic OOC Gatling gun sniper kamui kakashi faced my favourite character he’d still lose. 


Orochimaru for the win.


----------



## Crimson Flam3s (Jul 19, 2019)

Orochimaru op said:


> What’s funny is that even if the fanfic OOC Gatling gun sniper kamui kakashi faced my favourite character he’d still lose.
> 
> 
> Orochimaru for the win.



The moment Oro tries to P1 flex on Kakashi, he is already gone to boxland.


----------



## EliDZ (Jul 19, 2019)

I haven't been here in so long and it still the same arguments I love it!! Just based off what I have seen in the few days I've been on here it seems Jiraiya is the hot topic atm.


----------



## Symmetry (Jul 19, 2019)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> The moment Oro tries to P1 flex on Kakashi, he is already gone to boxland.





But then right before kakashi can kamui




It turns out a snake was on him the whole time! Poison gg


----------



## Crimson Flam3s (Jul 19, 2019)

Orochimaru op said:


> But then right before kakashi can kamui
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's cool. 

Sadly, it's gonna be Kakashi's clone, not the real Kakashi that's tucked away nicely in a corner. 

As Orochimaru celebrates his victory, he suddenly knows something is wrong. He can feel it in his gut, but before he can act, he suddenly feels his body being distorted by an invisible force and gets pulled into a singularity.

Visual Genjutsu or Ninjutsu, no matter what it is, Oro closes his eyes and starts prepping the hand signs to counter. However by the time he finishes blinking and opens his eyes, he is now in a new cold and lifeless dimension, one in which he is trapped until the end of time.


----------



## Symmetry (Jul 19, 2019)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> That's cool.
> 
> Sadly, it's gonna be Kakashi's clone, not the real Kakashi that's tucked away nicely in a corner.
> 
> ...




But then, by a weird twist of fate, it was actually a shadow clone!

Suddenly, kakashi feels a kunai placed at his neck, held up by none other then Orochimaru from behind him.


If only kakashi knew that Orochimaru had heatsensing snakes! He would have known clone feinting is useless.

Poor kakashi, if only lord Jiraiya was here. Maybe then he’d have a chance


----------



## Shazam (Jul 21, 2019)

Well since the current NBD consensus has Kakashi beating SM Jiraiya, its lunacy to suggesting Kakashi is not MORE overrated. 

Either that or their is just a genuine dislike happening for reasons on salt.

Take your pick


----------



## Crimson Flam3s (Jul 21, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Well since the current NBD consensus has Kakashi beating SM Jiraiya, its lunacy to suggesting Kakashi is not MORE overrated.
> 
> Either that or their is just a genuine dislike happening for reasons on salt.
> 
> Take your pick



Someone's not happy that once again, a Sannin is not coming out ahead better than a Master in a poll


----------



## The_Conqueror (Jul 21, 2019)

People are just salty about Jiriaya. If we say he Draws or beat sb who he is said to be equal to him then its called over rated. 
Non of Jiraiya supporters would say he beats Minato Nagatoor Sb who was easily placed over him by th authour. 

These arguments wsill actually never close because the authour isnot taking so we will have two groups of people 
One believing Jiraiya and Itachi are in same ball park and Minato both above them
And other believing Jiraiya and Itachi are far apart while Minato band Itachi have Minimal Gap 

So in the End Itachi is the one who crates a barrier and divides people who each think each of their arguments iis correct . So unless Jiraiya is Kashin koji Jiraiya fandom will still believe Minato>>Itachi=Jiraiya and Other fandoom believing Minato>=Itachi>Jiraiya.

Kakashi hardly won any of the matches he was given in the series and there were multiple fights, while he did show his prowess and lived upto his reputation he was already shown to have a lacking element when he fought High tier Ninnja. 

In the end overrated and Underrated thing is just a thoughprocess of what you bbelieve . For eg sage light would say itachi is underrated and kaguya overrated if he believed his thoughts. So lets hope Jiraiya is kashin koji

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Shazam (Jul 21, 2019)

The_Conqueror said:


> People are just salty about Jiriaya. If we say he Draws or beat sb who he is said to be equal to him then its called over rated.
> Non of Jiraiya supporters would say he beats Minato Nagatoor Sb who was easily placed over him by th authour.
> 
> These arguments wsill actually never close because the authour isnot taking so we will have two groups of people
> ...



Jiraiya is kashin koji. In fact he is playing the same hide and seek role Obito had as Tobi for most of shippuden. Thought he was dead, but happens to be alive working a different angle in Boruto. Too many things like having a rasengan, having toad summons, knowing Naruto to a full extent, knowing how the Konoha barrier is set up, having an affinity for fire release, same color hair, looks a bit aged etc

If he isn't, then we are all getting super played and its just Jiraiya's kid or another pupil or something


----------



## Shazam (Jul 21, 2019)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> Someone's not happy that once again, a Sannin is not coming out ahead better than a Master in a poll



Currently the masters are being heavily wanked. I can bring up threads from less than a year ago of SM Jiraiya vs WA Masters and the fight being rather even or Jiraiya slightly ahead, new members come, older members stop being active, and then suddenly you have different groups of opinions. Nothing new, and you should know these things flip.

Doesnt change that none of the kakashi fans present decent arguments for him winning - Kamui or Bust Kakashi


----------



## The_Conqueror (Jul 21, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Jiraiya is kashin koji. In fact he is playing the same hide and seek role Obito had as Tobi for most of shippuden. Thought he was dead, but happens to be alive working a different angle in Boruto. Too many things like having a rasengan, having toad summons, knowing Naruto to a full extent, knowing how the Konoha barrier is set up, having an affinity for fire release, same color hair, looks a bit aged etc
> 
> If he isn't, then we are all getting super played and its just Jiraiya's kid or another pupil or something


We dont know whst authour will pull out off his ass , so lats just wait for a concrete evidience i guess


----------



## Quipchaque (Jul 21, 2019)

Jiraiya clearly. Kakashi was amazing in the final arc and most posters know his limits or admit that he isn't all that without Kamui but Jiraiya is getting way overhyped when the fact of the matter is that even Sage Mode Naruto looks more impressive than him.


----------



## Shazam (Jul 21, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Jiraiya clearly. Kakashi was amazing in the final arc and most posters know his limits or admit that he isn't all that without Kamui but Jiraiya is getting way overhyped when the fact of the matter is that even Sage Mode Naruto looks more impressive than him.



Naruto looks more impressive than Kakashi as well. 

How does that mean Jiraiya is more overrated 

These reasons are actually not a reason at all.


----------



## HappyBurrito (Jul 21, 2019)

*Interesting, the vote is divided neck and neck.*


----------



## Kisame (Jul 21, 2019)

Wow Kakashi is actually winning the poll.


----------



## Quipchaque (Jul 21, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Naruto looks more impressive than Kakashi as well.
> 
> How does that mean Jiraiya is more overrated
> 
> These reasons are actually not a reason at all.



That is your opinion. I disagree with Naruto looking more impressive. Jiraiya is being more overrated because Jiraiya fans don't want to acknowledge that he doesn't have any feats that put him where most Jiraiya fans want to put him while Kakashi fans typically rank Kakashi realistically based on actual feats like the ones we see in the war arc.


----------



## Turrin (Jul 21, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> That is your opinion. I disagree with Naruto looking more impressive. Jiraiya is being more overrated because Jiraiya fans don't want to acknowledge that he doesn't have any feats that put him where most Jiraiya fans want to put him while Kakashi fans typically rank Kakashi realistically based on actual feats like the ones we see in the war arc.


Dude Kakashi needed help to deal with Zabuza, yet people place WA-Kakashi (None DMS) as High-Kage, despite the fact that even the weakest Kages would rape Zabuza No difficulty. Kakashi-Fans are highly unrealistic about his placement.

As far as Jiraiya goes; people usually place him Mid-Kage, which Jiraiya with 3 Boss Summons, Sage-Mode, and one of the most versatile arsenals in the entire manga, definitely has the feats to support.


----------



## Santoryu (Jul 21, 2019)

Shazam said:


> the only kakashi who can beat full power jiraiya sm is kakashi with rikudu power + double mangekyo obito
> actually even in that context , jiraiya might survive somehow with his haxx shadow jutsu/ spacetime dimension frog because kakashi can't stay DMS for long time




Did you just say Jiraiya could potentially beat DMS Kakashi?



@Crimson Flam3s
@MaruUchiha


----------



## Shazam (Jul 21, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> That is your opinion. I disagree with Naruto looking more impressive. Jiraiya is being more overrated because Jiraiya fans don't want to acknowledge that he doesn't have any feats that put him where most Jiraiya fans want to put him while Kakashi fans typically rank Kakashi realistically based on actual feats like the ones we see in the war arc.



So you don't think SM Naruto looks more impressive than Kakashi? And yet you don't think that's overrating him? 

And btw, where do most "jiraiya fans" put jiraiya?


----------



## Shazam (Jul 21, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> Did you just say Jiraiya could potentially beat DMS Kakashi?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't look so desperate my man - editing what I said, then quoting it and tagging your posy is the stuff we dealt with in middle school.


----------



## Santoryu (Jul 21, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Don't look so desperate my man - editing what I said, then quoting it and tagging your posy is the stuff we dealt with in middle school.



Nice edit

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Crimson Flam3s (Jul 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Dude Kakashi *needed help to deal with Zabuza*, yet people place WA-Kakashi (None DMS) as High-Kage, despite the fact that even the weakest Kages would rape Zabuza No difficulty. Kakashi-Fans are highly unrealistic about his placement.
> 
> As far as Jiraiya goes; people usually place him Mid-Kage, which Jiraiya with 3 Boss Summons, Sage-Mode, and one of the most versatile arsenals in the entire manga, definitely has the feats to support.



If he *needed *help to defeat Zabuza, I wonder how he ever got to defeat him way back in the bridge in p1


----------



## Turrin (Jul 21, 2019)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> If he *needed *help to defeat Zabuza, I wonder how he ever got to defeat him way back in the bridge in p1


Edo-Zabuza isn't the same as Wave-Arc Zabuza. Edo-Zabuza knows about the blood trick and can avoid it; he also can't be killed by Raikiri due to Edo-Regeneration. The only Jutsu that Kakashi could use to deal with an Edo for good would be Kamui; but Demonic Mist hard counters Kamui. This is why Kakashi needed help to seal Edo-Zabuza from the Yamanaka, Nara, and Sai. Otherwise Kakashi could not beat Edo-Zabuza and no amount of mental gymnastics will change that.


----------



## HappyBurrito (Jul 21, 2019)

Shark said:


> Wow Kakashi is actually winning the poll.


*What does the Poll result mean to you?*


----------



## Crimson Flam3s (Jul 21, 2019)

HappyBurrito said:


> *What does the Poll result mean to you?*



@Shark  has a Kakashi Vendetta since Itachi implied Kisame would get rekk vs p1 Kakashi


----------



## Quipchaque (Jul 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Dude Kakashi needed help to deal with Zabuza, yet people place WA-Kakashi (None DMS) as High-Kage, despite the fact that even the weakest Kages would rape Zabuza No difficulty. Kakashi-Fans are highly unrealistic about his placement.
> 
> As far as Jiraiya goes; people usually place him Mid-Kage, which Jiraiya with 3 Boss Summons, Sage-Mode, and one of the most versatile arsenals in the entire manga, definitely has the feats to support.



I dunno why it matters that he needed help to beat Zabuza...? Does that change how impressive Kakashi's other feats are in any way?


----------



## Shazam (Jul 21, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> That is your opinion. I disagree with Naruto looking more impressive. Jiraiya is being more overrated because Jiraiya fans don't want to acknowledge that he doesn't have any feats that put him where most Jiraiya fans want to put him while Kakashi fans typically rank Kakashi realistically based on actual feats like the ones we see in the war arc.



Im guessing you're going to respond to this? 



Shazam said:


> So you don't think SM Naruto looks more impressive than Kakashi? And yet you don't think that's overrating him?
> 
> And btw, where do most "jiraiya fans" put jiraiya?


----------



## Turrin (Jul 21, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> I dunno why it matters that he needed help to beat Zabuza...? Does that change how impressive Kakashi's other feats are in any way?


It matters because if someone has a counter to his Sharingan; he is basically Jonin/Zabuza level and will be raped by any Kage. That's a huge weakness in his character.


----------



## Santoryu (Jul 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> It matters because if someone has a counter to his Sharingan; he is basically Jonin/Zabuza level and will be raped by any Kage. That's a huge weakness in his character.



Sage jutsu is a counter to Juubito.

By your logic, Juubito drops down multiple tiers and can be beaten by any of the Gokage.


----------



## Turrin (Jul 21, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> Sage jutsu is a counter to Juubito.
> 
> By your logic, Juubito drops down multiple tiers and can be beaten by any of the Gokage.


That's actually a perfect example. Sage Jutsu counters one of Obito's abilities, but since his others are still ridiculously OP he's still clearly above the Gokage and Sage-Naruto.

However the exact opposite is true in Kakashi's case; when his Sharingan is countered his other abilities are inferior to every Kage in existence; and he struggles with Jonin. In-Fairness Top Jonin, but still


----------



## Santoryu (Jul 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> That's actually a perfect example. Sage Jutsu counters one of Obito's abilities, but since his others are still ridiculously OP he's still clearly above the Gokage and Sage-Naruto.
> 
> However the exact opposite is true in Kakashi's case; when his Sharingan is countered his other abilities are inferior to every Kage in existence; and he struggles with Jonin. In-Fairness Top Jonin, but still



Just because you have a potential counter to the Sharingan, does not mean you will nullify it for the entirety of a match. Look at Zabuza, for example. Kakashi explicitly states in their second encounter that he's more than the Sharingan and refers to his Anbu days too.

Also, Kakashi immediately after the war was deemed Kage level by Tsunade without his Sharingan, so your point about him being Jounin level is false.


----------



## Quipchaque (Jul 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> It matters because if someone has a counter to his Sharingan; he is basically Jonin/Zabuza level and will be raped by any Kage. That's a huge weakness in his character.



True. You can apply that to a lot of characters though. There is next to no character who is flawless.


----------



## Turrin (Jul 21, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> Just because you have a potential counter to the Sharingan, does not mean you will nullify it for the entirety of a match.
> .


I never claimed this....



> Look at Zabuza, for example. Kakashi explicitly states in their second encounter that he's more than the Sharingan and refers to his Anbu days too.


Yes he's more then Sharingan; against skilled Jonin. Against Kages he's not. Feel free to make Kakashi w/o Sharingan vs Kages Thread if you want.



> Also, Kakashi immediately after the war was deemed Kage level by Tsunade without his Sharingan, so your point about him being Jounin level is false


Kakashi after the Manga in a dubiously Canon Novel, is not relevant to Manga Kakashi.


----------



## Turrin (Jul 21, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> True. You can apply that to a lot of characters though. There is next to no character who is flawless.


Actually you can't; as most Kages have more then one ability that is above Jonin/Zabuza level; &/or their abilities can't be countered by Jonin/Zabuza level characters.


----------



## Santoryu (Jul 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> I never claimed this....
> 
> 
> Yes he's more then Sharingan; against skilled Jonin. Against Kages he's not. Feel free to make Kakashi w/o Sharingan vs Kages Thread if you want.



I'm not saying you claimed it per se, but that logic could be applied to ,any characters. Strip away Tsunade's monstrous strength and she's significantly weaker.

Take away Ei's lightning armour and super speed
Take Minato's Hiraishin

etc etc

They're made in the form of Hokage Kakashi, but his power level is an enigma.





Turrin said:


> I
> Kakashi after the Manga in a dubiously Canon Novel, is not relevant to Manga Kakashi.



Dubiously canon novel, when not contradicted by the manga, is still more accurate than our conjectures, no?

The point is, that Kakashi, without the crux of his power (the Sharingan) was still deemed a Kage level shinobi.


----------



## Trojan (Jul 21, 2019)

The_Conqueror said:


> People are just salty about Jiriaya. If we say he Draws or beat sb who he is said to be equal to him then its called over rated.
> Non of Jiraiya supporters would say he beats Minato Nagatoor Sb who was easily placed over him by th authour.
> 
> These arguments wsill actually never close because the authour isnot taking so we will have two groups of people
> ...



I think we should hope that Koji is not Jiraiya. Otherwise, we will have a mass suicide


----------



## Turrin (Jul 21, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> I'm not saying you claimed it per se, but that logic could be applied to ,any characters. Strip away Tsunade's monstrous strength and she's significantly weaker.
> 
> Take away Ei's lightning armour
> Take Minato's Hiraishin
> ...


The difference is i'm not magically taking away Kakashi's Sharingan. Zabuza was canonically shown capable of countering Kakashi's Sharingan; and with Sharingan countered, Zabuza was a major threat to Kakashi. Zabuza is a strong Ninja, but he is not even remotely close in power to any of the Kages we've seen.

In the case of these other examples, Kishimoto isn't showing characters on Zabuza's level countering Hiraishin or Ei's Raiton Chakra Amor.



> Dubiously canon novel, when not contradicted by the manga, is still more accurate than our conjectures, no?
> 
> The point is, that Kakashi, without the crux of his power (the Sharingan) was still deemed a Kage level shinobi.


It's not conjecture though; we have seen Kakashi w/o the ability to use his Sharingan effectively in battle, against Zabuza, and he lost in their first encounter (was saved by Naruto/Sasuke), barely won in their second, and needed help to win in their third. And again Zabuza is much weaker then every Kage we've seen. So we know Manga Kakashi without the ability to use his Sharingan is not on par with any Kage.

Tsunade stroking Kakashi's dick in a dubiously canon Novel that takes place after the Manga, doesn't change what we directly saw in canon. Especially when Kakashi in that same novel didn't think he was ready to be Hokage until he perfected Purple Raiton Ninjutsu.


----------



## Santoryu (Jul 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> *Tsunade stroking Kakashi's dick in* a dubiously canon Novel that takes place after the Manga, doesn't change that. Especially when Kakashi in that same novel didn't think he was ready to be Hokage until he perfected Purple Raiton Ninjutsu.



Really man


----------



## Shazam (Jul 21, 2019)

@DiscoZoro20 Why are you rating and then running from your post explanation?


----------



## Turrin (Jul 21, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> Really man


His white hair reminds her of Dan; Idk man take it up with whoever wrote that novel

Ether way it doesn't change the fact that Kakashi's encounter with Zabuza in the WA, shows that Kakashi can still be countered and need help against a strong Jonin. While this is not the case for any Kage we've seen; and I absolutely believe that should be considered and will always effect how I rank him.


----------



## HappyBurrito (Jul 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Tsunade stroking Kakashi's dick


*What?*


----------



## Turrin (Jul 21, 2019)

HappyBurrito said:


> *What?*


Apparently it happens in the novel ask @Santoryu the context


----------



## Shazam (Jul 21, 2019)

@Ayala 

Kakashi beats unrestricted Deva path.

But no, Kakashi is not overrated. Its Jiraiya.


----------



## Shazam (Jul 22, 2019)

Should add gai to the list poll


----------



## JiraiyaFlash (Jul 23, 2019)

Kakashi by far. I didnt saw a Jiraiya poster that put him higher than Pain's ball park. 

But ı saw claims even PA Kakashi was a high kage and P1 Kakashi can beat Hebi Sasuke or WA Kakashi soloing all 3 sannin   We all know which fanbase crazier already.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Shazam (Jul 23, 2019)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> Kakashi by far. I didnt saw a Jiraiya poster that put him higher than Pain's ball park.
> 
> But ı saw claims even PA Kakashi was a high kage and P1 Kakashi can beat Hebi Sasuke or WA Kakashi soloing all 3 sannin   We all know which fanbase crazier already.



Very true


----------



## Shazam (Jul 23, 2019)

@Maverick04 why do you think Jiraiya is more overrated currently


----------



## ARGUS (Jul 23, 2019)

Kakashi is the most overrated


----------

