# Current Zoro vs Current Sanji



## TheRealSJ (Feb 15, 2021)

Full power zoro vs full power sanji 

(meaning 3ss zoro with enma and hypothetical diable jambe sanji with raid suit) 


Factors to take into consideration:
- lethality 
- attack power 
- physical strength
- physical speed 
- movement options (e.g soru, geppo etc) 
- reaction speed
- intelligence/battle strategy
- endurance
- durability 

Based off these factors and the fact that they both know each others fighting styles very well, what diff could sanji give zoro? Could he even do the impossible and edge him out?


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## Lord Melkor (Feb 15, 2021)

I would hope for high difficulty. I expect full power Sanji to be top commander level and while Zoro has top tier attack power his mobility should be inferior to Sanji.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bash24 (Feb 15, 2021)

The way i see it is Sanji will be dominating in the beginning of the fight ,and then Zoro would slowly start to get the upper hand, and eventually lands a devastating blow on Sanji to finish it.

Zoro very high diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Corax (Feb 15, 2021)

Logically should be high. But by current feats around low. to mid.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 1


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## Grinningfox (Feb 15, 2021)

Zoro should high diff at the worst


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 15, 2021)

By current feats Zoro stomps

Reactions: Agree 1


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## convict (Feb 15, 2021)

Going with Zoro Mid for now

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 1


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## Quipchaque (Feb 15, 2021)

Still high difficulty.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Maruo (Feb 15, 2021)

Assuming Sanji defeats Queen, Zoro wins high diff.


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 15, 2021)

Logically it should be high.

But Zoro vs Sanji will always be extreme diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 2


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## Zooted (Feb 15, 2021)

Unless the author intends to ditch Sanji as a character and throw him down the drain then at least high diff.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fel1x (Feb 15, 2021)

they were ~

but Enma gives Zoro the upper hand. but still extreme

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Disagree 2 | Dislike 2


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## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 15, 2021)

Mid diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## Rcranium (Feb 15, 2021)

Zoro wins extreme diff.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Wayne With The Ism (Feb 16, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Logically it should be high.
> 
> But Zoro vs Sanji will always be extreme diff.


Maybe until EoS. I agree with high to extreme diff.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Duhul10 (Feb 16, 2021)

When Sanji will get feats, it will be high diff at the very least.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

By feats Zoro destroys him. Scaling should be high diff if we keep going with the M3 past but it seems to be clear that Oda portrays Luffy and Zoro on another level and going by the fact that we are reaching endgame i would prepare for a change.

Zoro mid diffs at worst as things stand now and I have very little basis to give Sanji some sort of benefit of a doubt with his current feats and portrayal.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 16, 2021)

Sanji has done absolutely nothing to say that he could give an high diff fight to current Zoro

By actual feats Zoro low mid diff at best

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

Zoro wins extreme

Reactions: GODA 2


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## muchentuchen (Feb 16, 2021)

Any sane being would give Zoro a low diff win over Sanji. The feats are just worlds apart.



Beast said:


> Zoro wins extreme low diff.


I gotchu my fellow Zoro gang member!

Reactions: Funny 2 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Magentabeard (Feb 16, 2021)

Zoro mid diffs, Sanji has the ability to keep up but he can't really do much to put Zoro in danger. Anything higher you need solid proof like ATLEAST beating Queen and it has not happened yet or may not happen. By that time Zoro will have better mastery of enma too which means possibly more accurate extremely deadly moves.
By feats Zoro is low diffing but I'm giving Sanji the benefit of the doubt that he has more to show. Zoro and Sanji are just not on the same level anymore infact even back in thriller bark it became clear that Zoro can be pushed to a far higher limit than Sanji.
Sanji can prolong the fight with his superior movement but its only a matter of time he can only take so many exchanges or gets hit. He isn't a threat to Zoro.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 16, 2021)

How can anyone really believe that SanjI can give Zoro a high diff fight currently ? 

By feats Zoro low diff

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## MrPopo (Feb 17, 2021)

Draw

Reactions: Funny 11


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## Skaddix (Feb 17, 2021)

Where is the Low Diff option? Sanji is done out here.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Mercurial (Feb 17, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> Draw


Between Full Power Sanji and Swordless Zoro? Yes, it seems correct, honestly.

Guess why Oda drew Zoro without any trace of his swords around him. Guess why they appear only in Sanji's own wishful dream.
Such a cohincidence  

As for them going both all out, Zoro's feats and portrayal are abysmally on a greater level, that's a fact. But out of respect for Sanji, let's say he can give him a mid diff fight. Sanji can keep up until Zoro brings out the big guns. When that happens, Sanji is simply too much overpowered and outclassed.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## maupp (Feb 17, 2021)

How is Sanji managing to get all these high diff votes. People know what high diff means right?

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Optimistic 2


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 17, 2021)

maupp said:


> How is Sanji managing to get all these high diff votes. People know what high diff means right?


Dont forget

"Sanji is Zoro's rival" so it doesn't matter..anything that Zoro can do..Sanji can too..

Zoro could solo hybrid Kaido that they would still say 

Zoro extreme diff Sanji

Reactions: Funny 6 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## MrPopo (Feb 17, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Between Full Power Sanji and Swordless Zoro? Yes, it seems correct, honestly.
> 
> Guess why Oda drew Zoro without any trace of his swords around him. Guess why they appear only in Sanji's own wishful dream.
> Such a cohincidence
> ...


Out baited


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## Kingslayer (Feb 17, 2021)

High to extreme diff fight. Current zoro has edge over sanji with Enma no doubt about it.


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 17, 2021)

ice demon slayer said:


> Dont forget
> 
> "Sanji is Zoro's rival" so it doesn't matter..anything that Zoro can do..Sanji can too..
> 
> ...


Ye you're right dude it's not like Oda has spent the whole series establishing their rivalry or anything like that

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Winner 2 | GODA 1 | Optimistic 3


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 17, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Ye you're right dude it's not like Oda has spent the whole series establishing their rivalry or anything like that


Yet Sanji has no feats to be put on Zoro's level

Reactions: Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Kingslayer (Feb 17, 2021)

ice demon slayer said:


> Yet Sanji has no feats to be put on Zoro's level


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 17, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


>


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## Kingslayer (Feb 17, 2021)

maupp said:


> How is Sanji managing to get all these high diff votes. People know what high diff means right?


Please tell us we have no idea sir .


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## Mercurial (Feb 17, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Ye you're right dude it's not like Oda has spent the whole series establishing their rivalry or anything like that


One has far better feats and completely different portrayal. Especially now, it becomes ridicolous.

One is always stronger than the other, you can discuss by how much, but is always stronger. Be it by a massive amount, by a good amount or by a small amount, but Zoro is always stronger than him.

One always fights the stronger opponents and defeats them with greater dominance. One always has his strength as his main component while the other has other things.
They never had a serious fight.
They never had a serious comparison.

One fights Yonko and gets acknowledged by them, the other cooks for them.
One is among the absolute top in the elite group of the strongest rising pirates, the other wasn't put in the same elite group.
One is the right hand/vice captain/first mate/number 2 in the crew, the other is the advisor/number 3 in the crew.

B-but they have gags together, so they must be almost equally strong!

 



Zoro had a serious fight against Rufy, he never had one against Sanji. Guess why.
Zoro has gag fights and competitions with Rufy as well.
Zoro has a lot of panels where he is portrayed as equal or similar to Rufy, where he has strength comparisons in both feats and portrayal. Serious issues, not gags. Sanji has none. Guess why.
Even Toei-only media have Zoro fight on par with Rufy and easily defeat Sanji.

B-but they have gags together 

Oda actually put Zoro in comparison with Rufy that with Sanji. He actually gave zero serious comparisons between Zoro and Sanji while he drew and portrayed a lot of them between Rufy and Zoro.  And never bothered with a Rufy and Sanji comparison. Because it would be ridicolous: while Rufy fights Krieg, Sanji does the cheerleader for him; Sanji gets raped by a playing around holding back Doflamingo, agile Rufy kicks Doffy's ass around. 

Rufy > Zoro
Zoro >> Sanji
Rufy >>> Sanji

Easy.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Skaddix (Feb 17, 2021)

Has there really been that much of a rivalry since the time skip? 

Its not like  Rival has never fallen super far behind in Shonen before

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Mercurial (Feb 17, 2021)

Skaddix said:


> Has there really been that much of a rivalry since the time skip?
> 
> Its not like  Rival has never fallen super far behind in Shonen before


It does not exist any rivalry.
Rivalry is when you do not know who is stronger because the two rivals surpass themselves everytime. Like Naruto is stronger than Sasuke, Sasuke becomes stronger than Naruto, Naruto surpasses him again and so on.
Zoro has been always clearly stronger during the entire series, at best one can discuss by how much, but they never reversed their roles. So where is the rivalry?

They have a characterial comic rivalry. That's why they never fought themselves, they never had a direct comparison, they always had someone beyond the other, they never had a mutual one-surpass-the-other situation.
A strength rivalry is a completely different thing.

Zoro does not have a current rival who is on par with him, and he never had, he only has Mihawk as a long term goal.

Also. Rivalry does not mean being equals or almost equals: Kidd is Rufy's rival, acknowledged by both, but Rufy is clearly much stronger.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 17, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> *Rivalry is when you do not know who is stronger because the two rivals surpass themselves everytime*. Like Naruto is stronger than Sasuke, Sasuke becomes stronger than Naruto, Naruto surpasses him again and so on.





Mercurial said:


> *Rivalry does not mean being equals or almost equals: Kidd is Rufy's rival, acknowledged by both, but Rufy is clearly much stronger.*

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 17, 2021)

People really be spending hours on their reply posts and then contradict their own positions by the time they reach the end of their post, beautiful

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Intus Legere (Feb 17, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> they were ~
> 
> but Enma gives Zoro the upper hand. but still extreme


Do you really think Enma is that small of a factor?


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## Fel1x (Feb 17, 2021)

Intus Legere said:


> Do you really think Enma is that small of a factor?


something that can change ~ to high diff or lower is fucking huge motherfucking factor


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## Intus Legere (Feb 17, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> something that can change ~ to high diff or lower is fucking huge motherfucking factor


You said "extreme", though. Not "high diff or lower."


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## Fel1x (Feb 17, 2021)

Intus Legere said:


> You said "extreme", though. Not "high diff or lower."


what I am trying to say is ~ to extreme diff doesn't make Enma a small of a factor


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## Magentabeard (Feb 17, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> what I am trying to say is ~ to extreme diff doesn't make Enma a small of a factor


Seems like you want them to go from around equal to roughly equal again (extreme diff)
Obviously no amount of feats will change your mind but we are all entitled to our opinions

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Fel1x (Feb 17, 2021)

Magentabeard said:


> Seems like you want them to go from around equal to roughly equal again (extreme diff)
> Obviously no amount of feats will change your mind but we are all entitled to our opinions


people think Zoro is currently comfortably above only because his feats are fresher. while Zoro was getting feats vs Yonko, nothing about Sanji was really showed
also Sanji is currently handicapped because he is facing women


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 17, 2021)

I think it would be better to remake this thread after wano because sanji is going through some CIS rn.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kingslayer (Feb 17, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> It does not exist any rivalry.
> Rivalry is when you do not know who is stronger because the two rivals surpass themselves everytime. Like Naruto is stronger than Sasuke, Sasuke becomes stronger than Naruto, Naruto surpasses him again and so on.
> Zoro has been always clearly stronger during the entire series, at best one can discuss by how much, but they never reversed their roles. So where is the rivalry?
> 
> ...


You guys really need to stop insulting  his cooking.Oda has even drawn panel of Judge mocking his cooking and why he is not loyal  Germa soldier its ironic he knows there is sanji hatedom exist in internet.

​
Did you just randomly skipped his wci arc where he rescue the whole cake island population and actually helps his crew from imminent death.
​
This is just hate post filled with spite its like i am questioning have you been reading Three piece in my opinion. Trust me sanji vs Zoro has always had been dick measuring  oda will keep going to hype Sanji in future to keep up with zoro  and i will post to show you will keep coming back for anti sanjibias you will hold.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 17, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> You guys really need to stop insulting  his cooking.Oda has even drawn panel of Judge mocking his cooking and why he is not loyal  Germa soldier its ironic he knows there is sanji hatedom exist in internet.
> 
> ​
> Did you just randomly skipped his wci arc where he rescue the whole cake island population and actually helps his crew from imminent death.
> ...



Iam looking forward to see you post more gags as actual evidence for Sanji being close to Zoro.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Kingslayer (Feb 18, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Iam looking forward to see you post more gags as actual evidence for Sanji being close to Zoro.


I see no gags he is posting pure hate in that post. Cant help if you are blind.

You guys make everything into powerlevel thats the problem. Sanji is primarily a  cook and  fighter later  thats message oda has signalled that rest of the fan who shits on his character.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 18, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> I see no gags he is posting pure hate in that post. Cant help if you are blind.
> 
> You guys make everything into powerlevel thats the problem. Sanji is cook and a fighter .



So what's the problem with him being mainly the cook? How is that an insult? He doesn't even want to use his hands for fighting meaning he prioritizes being a cook. 

That's like appreciating Sanji for being a cook but at the same time being dissatisfied he can't be 100% equal to a character that focusses his whole life on getting stronger to reach the top of the world in power and nothing else.

 

That's really greedy of his fans. Why aren't you happy with how he is supposed to be? You guys desperately want him to be a Zoro 2.0 that has cooking and other skills on top of that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 5


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## Mercurial (Feb 18, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


>


It's so good that you did not understand what I said. And that you also conveniently ignored the rest of my points (that are simply manga comparisons, not my theories or opinions) because of course what can you say.

"They joke and have gag fights so they have to be rivals and almost equals"



Just like Lucci and Jabra, am I right? They confront and menace and provoke themselves, so they must be almost equals...








Lucci "fighting" Jabra as if he could not destroy him if he wanted. Jabra "fighting" Lucci as if he did not know that he does not stand a chance. 
And that's why they do not fight for real, they only provoke.
That's simply because they hate their respective behaviour. Actual strength has nothing to do with that. It's just a mainliness dick measuring contest. 
Zoro and Sanji is exactly the same way. Zoro is clearly much stronger and both know, but they provoke and insult themselves because it's not about actual strength, it's about different beliefs, behaviour, manliness, personality.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Winner 2


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## Kingslayer (Feb 18, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> So what's the problem with him being mainly the cook? How is that an insult? He doesn't even want to use his hands for fighting meaning he prioritizes being a cook.
> 
> That's like appreciating Sanji for being a cook but at the same time being dissatisfied he can't be 100% equal to a character that focusses his whole life on getting stronger to reach the top of the world in power and nothing else.
> 
> ...


Nah you guys make it like its a mockery profession thats the problem.

So whats the problem with baking a cake to rescue wci population thats primary question ?

We can come to your other part q and a later .

@wiggins you didnt read my post .


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## TheWiggian (Feb 18, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> Nah you guys make it like its a mockery profession thats the problem.
> 
> So whats the problem with baking a cake to rescue wci population thats primary question ?
> 
> We can come to your other part q and a later .



I personally don't see a problem with him baking a cake. Oda personally said that was Sanji's peak moment in the story so why should i disagree?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Kingslayer (Feb 18, 2021)

Of course current Zoro high diffs sanji i have written that already.

You guys need to wait for his one on one then we can judge if he is yet around Zoro level.

For now he is not there yet .If sanji doesnt show anything promising against Queen i will agree with Zoro >> Sanji.



TheWiggian said:


> I personally don't see a problem with him baking a cake. Oda personally said that was Sanji's peak moment in the story so why should i disagree?



Other part i actually i agree with you fan  should never  treat him as zoro 2.0. 

Sanji is more of incognito or spy just like the very description of Germa 66 and  he is stealth kind of person. 

His role is more into helping out people at crucial time .


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## maupp (Feb 18, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> So what's the problem with him being mainly the cook? How is that an insult? He doesn't even want to use his hands for fighting meaning he prioritizes being a cook.
> 
> That's like appreciating Sanji for being a cook but at the same time being dissatisfied he can't be 100% equal to a character that focusses his whole life on getting stronger to reach the top of the world in power and nothing else.
> 
> ...


Well said.

Never understood this obsession Sanji fans have of him being a Zoro 2.0. It has reached a point where it's not even about viewing Sanji the character itself but about what Zoro is doing so they can hope Oda copies and pastes it for Sanji.

Here is an example. You see at the begining of Wano arc most Sanji fans would have been ecstatic for him to be given a proper fight against a solid opponent let alone a Kaido's commander like Queen. Now all they do is theorise how sanji will somehow make it to the rooftop and have his crack against Kaido. All that because Oda has Zoro involved in a fight against Kaido. It has become about what Zoro gets, Sanji has to get it too.

Some people genuinely think Zoro and Sanji come in pair or something. They think Oda somehow conceptualised them together as rivals in strength to be till the end of the series.

They simply ignore that Zoro is a character on his own with a different purpose. He has his own ambitions, code and morals which vastly differ from Sanji's. Dude entire character is based on his goal of achieving the pinnacle of swordsmanship, become the strongest.

Sanji doesn't even have a strength related dream, doesn't train half as hard as Zoro, doesn't use his hands for fighting, isn't obsessed with being the strongest he could be yet some people want him to somehow be neck and neck with Zoro strength wise just because Oda loves his gags.

People have to step back a bit and re-evaluate.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Trueno (Feb 18, 2021)

Sanji is Zoro's equal. Both thematically and in terms of strength. They are just two different sides of a coin. Sanji represents old fashioned masculine chivalry in a French knightly sense of respecting women and fighting with a code (of not using fists or hurting women). Zoro represents an Japanese old fashioned variation of masculine chivalry. All about honor and strength and devotion to his code. 

Sanji only takes so many more "Ls" than Zoro because that's how he demonstrates his strength. He was superior to the his genetically modified siblings and his dad when they fought without raid suits.. And raid suits only multiply strength... And let's not forget that Sanji defeated one of the Flying Six easily with his Raid Suit equipped. Also, when he faced against a certain Flying Six member he was unable to attack her.. very similarly to how he couldn't actually defeat Khalifa simply due to his code, but ended up defeating Jyabura. We will certainly see Sanji defeat someone at the end of the Arc and it will likely be a stomp just like it was for Jyabura. 

Sanji has his incredible superhuman strength, Raid Suit, incredible Observation Haki that lets him counter guys like Katakuri's bean, Diable Jambe, and Skywalk.

Whereas, Zoro just has armament, his swords and his incredible techniques. 

Zoro has his swords and armament, but Sanji can see all of those attacks coming and has speed and strength to keep up with him.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 5


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## Trueno (Feb 18, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> It's so good that you did not understand what I said. And that you also conveniently ignored the rest of my points (that are simply manga comparisons, not my theories or opinions) because of course what can you say.
> 
> "They joke and have gag fights so they have to be rivals and almost equals"
> 
> ...



Lucci and Jyabra was actually an excellent example. Zoro was tired from fighting Kaku with his handicap, but Jyabura was only slightly weaker than Kaku and was defeated by Sanji who was tired from fighting Khalifa with a handicap.

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Kroczilla (Feb 18, 2021)

Looking at some of the posts in this thread and just...yikes.

@Mercurial mentioning Lucci and Jabra in the same sentence as Zoro and Sanji is just another sign that the Zorobros have lost the plot.

But yeah, best to wait till end of Wano before giving a definitive response.

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 1


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 18, 2021)

Bryant D. Koby said:


> Lucci and Jyabra was actually an excellent example. Zoro was tired from fighting Kaku with his handicap, but Jyabura was only slightly weaker than Kaku and was defeated by Sanji who was tired from fighting Khalifa with a handicap.





Kroczilla said:


> Looking at some of the posts in this thread and just...yikes.
> 
> @Mercurial mentioning Lucci and Jabra in the same sentence as Zoro and Sanji is just another sign that the Zorobros have lost the plot.
> 
> But yeah, best to wait till end of Wano before giving a definitive response.



You would think zolofans wouldn't want to bring up the arc where Zoro and Sanji's power standing was literally translated into numbers for the mentally handicapped readers who didn't understand it before

Reactions: Agree 6


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## convict (Feb 18, 2021)

Bryant D. Koby said:


> *Sanji is Zoro's equal. Both thematically and in terms of strength. They are just two different sides of a coin. *



And yet I see the only vote favoring Sanji taking the W is by you 

Anyway I am glad most of the forum is sane at least by the poll

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Dunno (Feb 18, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> You would think zolofans wouldn't want to bring up the arc where Zoro and Sanji's power standing was literally translated into numbers for the mentally handicapped readers who didn't understand it before


Kaku was a swordsman who could punch harder than a martial artist could kick. Tell me, do you think Sanji kicks harder than Zoro punches? Do you think Prime Garp punched harder then Prime Roger kicked?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sablés (Feb 18, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Ye you're right dude it's not like Oda has spent the whole series establishing their rivalry or anything like that


Dynamics change and rivalry does not dictate equality.

Luffy had a rivalry with Law and Kidd, but I assure you Dressrossa depicted something very differently with the former, and Wano does again with Law and Kidd both.

When you have to insist on a rivalry to support Sanji, isn't that just proof that you don't have anything tangible to work with?

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 2


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 18, 2021)

Sablés said:


> Dynamics change and rivalry does not dictate equality.
> 
> Luffy had a rivalry with Law and Kidd, but I assure you Dressrossa depicted something very differently with the former, and Wano does again with Law and Kidd both.
> 
> When you have to insist on a rivalry to support Sanji, isn't that just proof that you don't have anything tangible to work with?


With Law we had a clear example of Luffy beating an enemy that completely decimated Law. With Kidd, we have Luffy performing the most impressive feats among the rooftop 5, so it's decent "tangible" evidence that he's the strongest, even though we can still be charitable to Kidd that he's far from having shown his full set of abilities.

There's nothing really blatant that points to Zoro having increased the disparity between him and Sanji since their original power dynamic.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sablés (Feb 18, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> With Law we had a clear example of Luffy beating an enemy that completely decimated Law. With Kidd, we have Luffy performing the most impressive feats among the rooftop 5, so it's decent "tangible" evidence that he's the strongest.
> 
> There's nothing really blatant that points to Zoro having increased the disparity between him and Sanji since their original power dynamic.



My point is that rivals are not equal. They can be, but they don't have to be. Luffy is living proof.

Some of the famous rivals in this medium have or had huge disparities between them at one point in the story. Zoro is the one with much better feats than Sanji. Zoro is the one who has been giving narrative importance for this arc. There is no reason whatsoever to cling to Sanji as his equal.

If you disagree? Back up your stance with evidence. You _can _do that, right?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 18, 2021)

Sablés said:


> Zoro is the one who has been giving narrative importance for this arc.


What does this have to do with anything?


Sablés said:


> There is no reason whatsoever to cling to Sanji as his equal.
> 
> If you disagree? Back up your stance with evidence. You _can _do that, right?


Let me ask you this first, was your assumption during WCI that Brook was the strongest among the mid trio?


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## Sablés (Feb 18, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> What does this have to do with anything?


You tell me. You're the one attempting to use earlier narrative portrayal (rivals) here and disregarding feats.


Vivo Diez said:


> Let me ask you this first, was your assumption during WCI that Brook was the strongest among the mid trio?


I have no idea what a mid-trio is, but if his feats at the time were better then I don't see a problem.


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## Trueno (Feb 19, 2021)

Sablés said:


> My point is that rivals are not equal. They can be, but they don't have to be. Luffy is living proof.
> 
> Some of the famous rivals in this medium have or had huge disparities between them at one point in the story. Zoro is the one with much better feats than Sanji. Zoro is the one who has been giving narrative importance for this arc. There is no reason whatsoever to cling to Sanji as his equal.
> 
> If you disagree? Back up your stance with evidence. You _can _do that, right?


Luffy's only legit rivals were Lucci.. who he barely beat, Katakuri... who *chose *to lose (so he only won a battle of wills rather than physical prowess or combat ability) and Eustass Kidd who currently thinks he's weaker and will likely work hard to "catch up to Luffy" kind of like any anime rival like Sasuke or Vegeta.

Let's also not forget that Oda went out of his way to portray Kidd and Luffy as equals all the way up until now... and Kidd was matching Luffy's strength in prison with just *one arm*. This man has a literal handicap and is keeping up with Luffy and Law.


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## HaxHax (Feb 19, 2021)

Sablés said:


> My point is that rivals are not equal. They can be, but they don't have to be. Luffy is living proof.
> 
> Some of the famous rivals in this medium have or had huge disparities between them at one point in the story. Zoro is the one with much better feats than Sanji. Zoro is the one who has been giving narrative importance for this arc. There is no reason whatsoever to cling to Sanji as his equal.
> 
> If you disagree? Back up your stance with evidence. You _can _do that, right?



If you dial back time a couple of months, Sanji still had better feats than Zoro. So two months ago I can only presume that you thought Sanji > Zoro?

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## Gianfi (Feb 19, 2021)

Zoro high-extreme diff as always

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Mercurial (Feb 19, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> There's nothing really blatant that points to Zoro having increased the disparity between him and Sanji since their original power dynamic.


I guess why 99% of the fandom thinks otherwise.

Maybe it's because Zoro is showing feats and having portrayal that Sanji can't even dream. 
Maybe that's because in the entire manga Zoro did things in combat that Sanji could never do in the same arc, while everything Sanji did in combat Zoro could do as well, if not much better. That's objective. 

You only focus on the few things that suggest a rivalry while you chose to ignore the much greater evidence about a blatant disparity and a rivalry only concerning manliness and behaviour, not actual strength. 

You along with your few Flat Earth Society friends are becoming ridicolous with your rant and crying about Enma. Guys, do you remember that without RS then Sanji would be literally not relevant from a strength point of view? That he received RS while mocked to be to slow and actually needing to be saved, and also Sanji himself said he would never want his strength to come from that, except using that the first time he could? While Zoro at least received Enma as a prize for the strength showed by defeating Killer, plus all the hype by Tenguyama, the Oden comparison and so on.

Come on... Oda's different portrayal is abysmal. 







How can you few obsessed fanboys only care about your idol (which is a simp, btw) being "almost equal" "not too weaker then" another character who has completely different background, completely different narrative purpose, completely different path? Does Sanji not have anything interesting by himself? Instead of dreaming an impossibile comparison with a character who is literally made to be widely stronger than him? Zoro needs to surpass Mihawk, a Top Tier, otherwise he fails his purpose as a character. Sanji needs that?

Come on. WCI made clear. For Oda, Sanji is a cook, a latin lover, then a fighter. Zoro is a fighter with a Top Tier objective. Rufy is a fighter with a Top Tier objective even greater. It's just logic that they can't be comparable in strength. Sanji does much many things out of combat than Zoro and Rufy does, while they are much more strength oriented than he is. If they were comparable in strength that would make them like two idiots. That's why Oda has Rufy > Zoro >>> Sanji, with gap between Rufy and Sanji being really massive. That's why WCI went like it went.

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## Kingslayer (Feb 19, 2021)

Cant wait for the denier s reaction when sanji legit beats up a commander. I will bookmark this threads  for now.


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## Mercurial (Feb 19, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> Cant wait for the denier s reaction when sanji legit beats up a commander. I will bookmark this threads  for now.


Are you serious? Who cares if Sanji extreme diffs a YC... if Zoro is one of the protagonists in a fight against the Yonko, the real deal? Do you remember a nerfed Yonko without haki clowning a YC in two hits? Do you remember the same Yonko being stated to be unstoppable for her entire crew with three YCs? Or a wounded Admiral being unstoppable for YCs of Marco and Vista's caliber plus support?
See the gap? This is comical.

Do you realize that Oda made Zoro a member of the elite of the new rising pirates, and is currently portraying him as one of the strongest among the already elite group, while Sanji wasn't even deemed worth to be a member of said group in first place?

No one is saying that Sanji is shit and weak. He is strong, absolutely. Say that he isn't would be ridicolous. At the same time, make a comparison between him and Zoro, who is on a clearly different level, is ridicolous as well. They are simply built different, for different objectives, with different purposes and different paths. Just accept it.

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## Kingslayer (Feb 19, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Are you serious? Who cares if Sanji extreme diffs a YC... if Zoro is one of the protagonists in a fight against the Yonko, the real deal? Do you remember a nerfed Yonko without haki clowning a YC in two hits? This is comical.
> 
> Do you realize that Oda made Zoro a member of the elite of the new rising pirates, and is currently portraying him as one of the strongest among the already elite group, while Sanji wasn't even deemed worth to be a member of said group in first place?



Yea sure bookmarked this as well.   

Lets meet after sanji v commander and Zoro's enma achieves something. Untill then current zoro has upperhand.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mylesime (Feb 19, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> Yea sure bookmarked this as well.
> 
> Lets meet after sanji v commander and Zoro's enma achieves something. Untill then current zoro has upperhand.



You can't legitimately debate with that dude. He's a joke.
You're just wasting your time.
*Jinbei* is out there fighting against a flying six, let alone a commander, which doesn't prevent him from shamelessly claiming some of those outlandish takes.
Jinbei the dude who was able to clash against several top tiers ......
*Marco* is downstairs, the guy who Big Mom decided to run away from in order to reach the rooftop.
Yet , here he is claiming that these dudes would get washed by Killer i guess based on his argument since Killer is one of the said battle protagonists, and one of the big names of the new generation. Killer would destroy Jinbei and bitchslap Marco....
It's so stupid that it's actually baffling, impressive stuff, no cap.
Like you said once this raid is over and all the protagonists go all out, everything will be crystal clear.

It shouldn't be  necessary to be honest, they were perfectly able to understand why Luffy would need at worst high diff facing Zoro despite uncomparable feats a few months ago.
That's what one calls,  my friend , a double standard.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## NotTommy (Feb 19, 2021)

Zoro will continue to get impressive feats against Kaido but if Sanji solos a Calamity then I feel like it might still be mid-high difficulty depending on what aspects they're great at by the end of the arc.

Based on what we've seen, Zoro only has to worry about Sanji's invisibility then he'd probably finish it off pretty quick but invisibility is still part of Sanji's tool kit. We'll see how Sanji does against Queen but the end result remains the same, if Zoro gets a good hit in, he wins and he'll obviously get a good hit in.

Are Sanji and Zoro rivals? In a way they are, they've been portrayed as such for a while but as of late it's not as apparent. I'd say they are but if Oda decides to continue to widen the gap between them then pre-established relationships and how they interact with each other won't really matter much. We'll see how everything is post-Wano.

I don't really understand why that Niji scene is always brought up to prove Sanji's insignificant when it comes to strength. Same arc Sanji helped block Big Mom, it's like if someone argued using that that Sanji was crazy strong. There's plenty to look at from both characters but picking Sanji at his lowest doesn't really help make a point in my opinion.

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## muchentuchen (Feb 19, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> Cant wait for the denier s reaction when sanji legit beats up a commander. I will bookmark this threads  for now.


I  got future sight and will tell you it's inevitable. Sanji's beating Queen.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Sablés (Feb 19, 2021)

Bryant D. Koby said:


> Luffy's only legit rivals were Lucci.


All I had to read to know this post was going nowhere.


HaxHax said:


> If you dial back time a couple of months, Sanji still had better feats than Zoro. So two months ago I can only presume that you thought Sanji > Zoro?


If the carpet matched the drapes then so be it.

Feats > Some nebulous and irrelevant portrayal of rivalries. This hobby works on information, therefore we can only judge based on what we are told and shown and treat that as the closest to the facts. If the evidence supported Sanj in favor of Zoro then why shouldn't he be given the benefit of the doubt?

Take for example, if you were to assume Sanji and Zoro were also equal the whole time, wouldn't that have made Sanji much stronger than Zoro initially when he had his raid suit? What's stopping Zoro from being much stronger than Sanji now when he's got Enma?

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## Magentabeard (Feb 19, 2021)

I can guarantee Oda does not give a crap about Jyabura and Kaku's douriki from 700 chapters ago which was measured from kicking Fukurou once 
Plus all it measured was the physical strength. No weapons so no swords which would spike douriki like crazy, no DF, no endurance. Unless someone wants to correct me douriki was measured when the Cp9 met up and kicked Fukurou, there was no other test.
So it legit means swordless Kaku had roughly the same douriki as Jyabura. And Kaku definitely used swords in both his forms vs Zoro meaning douriki vastly underestimated his actual fighting ability.

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## Mercurial (Feb 19, 2021)

Magentabeard said:


> I can guarantee Oda does not give a crap about Jyabura and Kaku's douriki from 700 chapters ago which was measured from kicking Fukurou once
> Plus all it measured was the physical strength. No weapons so no swords which would spike douriki like crazy, no DF, no endurance. Unless someone wants to correct me douriki was measured when the Cp9 met up and kicked Fukurou, there was no other test.
> So it legit means swordless Kaku had roughly the same douriki as Jyabura. And Kaku definitely used swords in both his forms vs Zoro meaning douriki vastly underestimated his actual fighting ability.


Yes. Basically it would be the equivalent of measuring Zoro (or Mihawk, Vista, the Red Scabbards, Oden etc) without swords. That's what happened with Kaku.

Doriki Kaku >= Doriki Jabra
Kaku (+ swordmanship) >> Jabra

That's why Oda had only Kaku in CP0 together with Lucci while he does not care about Jabra. That's why the only CP9 with further missions were Lucci, tasked with guarding Spandam and Nico Robin, and Kaku, tasked with protecting the key of Nico Robin's handcuffs.
Kaku is much more relevant because he is stronger. 

And even then Oda had Ashura Zoro destroying and oneshotting Kaku, while Diable Janbe Sanji needed three hits to defeat Jabra, and to suffer a wound in the process as well.

But hey! Jabra is equal or almost equals to Lucci! They are rivals! Don't you see the clear portrayal of their rivalry??

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## Magentabeard (Feb 19, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Yes. Basically it would be the equivalent of measuring Zoro (or Mihawk, Vista, the Red Scabbards, Oden etc) without swords. That's what happened with Kaku.
> 
> Doriki Kaku >= Doriki Jabra
> Kaku (+ swordmanship) >> Jabra
> ...


Honesty this should put an end to using Douriki as an argument for Sanji=Zoro
If you're willing to use Jyabura and Kaku's douriki as a proxy for Sanji and Zoro abilities, then you're literally admitting that *Swordless Zoro >= Sanji*
And wow in that scene it looks like Kaku and Lucci do not give a crap about Jyabura being so insecure. Being uppity doesn't mean you have a rivalry and definitely doesnt show equality.

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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Feb 19, 2021)

zoro beats sanji somewhere in the high diff range that will never change. zoro could beat a reanimated roger while sanji never gets another fight. reverse the scenario to sanji same thing. until oda comes out and states explicitly otherwise.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## ClannadFan (Feb 19, 2021)

It don't matter how strong Zoro gets, just wait till my boy Sanji gets future sight. Zoro won't be able to touch him :^)

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## Kroczilla (Feb 20, 2021)

Magentabeard said:


> Plus all it measured was the physical strength.


Yes. That's it's purpose.


Magentabeard said:


> No weapons so no swords which would spike douriki like crazy


Well given that it is as you said, a measure of physical strength, I don't understand what universe you come from where STRENGTH TESTS involve swords.




Magentabeard said:


> no DF,


Yes, no DF. 




Magentabeard said:


> Unless someone wants to correct me douriki was measured when the Cp9 met up and kicked Fukurou, there was no other test.


Except you mean to invent other tests, yes there ARE no other tests i.e. Douriki and one's ability to use Rokushiki techniques are the only quantifiable tests we have been given.




Magentabeard said:


> So it legit means swordless Kaku had roughly the same douriki as Jyabura.


Again, swords have no place in a strength test.




Magentabeard said:


> And Kaku definitely used swords in both his forms vs Zoro meaning douriki vastly underestimated his actual fighting ability.


Given that douriki isn't a measure of fighting ability, I don't quite get the point being made here.


By the same measure, it could be said that Douriki underestimated everyone's actual fighting ability coz again, it was never a measure of fighting ability in the first place.





Mercurial said:


> And even then Oda had Ashura Zoro destroying and oneshotting Kaku, while Diable Janbe Sanji needed three hits to defeat Jabra, and to suffer a wound in the process as well.


First off, it was two hits. Second, unlike Kaku, Jabra's tekkai is activated constantly hence he is always far more durable.

Also
Oda also had sanji finish his fight much faster despite coming in damaged before the fight.

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## ClannadFan (Feb 20, 2021)

If Sanji High Diff'd King, assuming King is around Katakuri lvl, would that be more impressive than Zoro's showings so far on the rooftop?

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## maupp (Feb 20, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> If Sanji High Diff'd King, assuming King is around Katakuri lvl, would that be more impressive than Zoro's showings so far on the rooftop?


Sanji could low diff King and it still wouldn't be more impressive compared to rooftop business. There are levels to this game.

The fact that Yonkous have shown they can borderline no diff their commanders means whatever anyone does against the latter  would never be comparable to tangoing against a yonkou let alone 2 of them.

This is the equivalent of actors saying they'd rather have 5 lines in a memorable movie than be the lead in a B, passable movie. There are simply just different weights.

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## Magentabeard (Feb 20, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Yes. That's it's purpose.
> 
> Well given that it is as you said, a measure of physical strength, I don't understand what universe you come from where STRENGTH TESTS involve swords.
> 
> ...


My point is clear: Using Kaku and Jyabura's douriki to gauge Zoro and Sanji is flawed and inaccurate. You seem to understand as I do - Douriki measured rokushiki strength and thats it. So you agree with that much?
Its not that I think strength tests should involve swords. Its that if we are using a strength test to gauge the combat ability of Kaku/Jyabura and then transfer that to Zoro/Sanji, its that swordsmen get underrated, even more so than the person who uses mainly uses strikes similar  to the one done in the test. Even then its not great because of DFs, unique abilities and whatnot.


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## ClannadFan (Feb 20, 2021)

maupp said:


> Sanji could low diff King and it still wouldn't be more impressive compared to rooftop business. There are levels to this game.
> 
> The fact that Yonkous have shown they can borderline no diff their commanders means whatever anyone does against the latter  would never be comparable to tangoing against a yonkou let alone 2 of them.
> 
> This is the equivalent of actors saying they'd rather have 5 lines in a memorable movie than be the lead in a B, passable movie. There are simply just different weight.


I mean this would make sense if it wasn't 5v2 up on the rooftop. I don't think anyone thinks Sanji will low diff King lol, but if he did he would 100% be stronger than even Luffy.

The answer you gave basically means its impossible in your opinion for Sanji to be even close to Zoro, unless he goes on the rooftop.


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## ThatGreekLady (Feb 20, 2021)

Sanji has the edge when it comes to speed in my opinion, especially with raid suit. However, he doesn't have enough attack power to bring down the durability monster that is Zoro. 
Zoro eventually prevails, high diff.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## maupp (Feb 20, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> I mean this would make sense if it wasn't 5v2 up on the rooftop. I don't think anyone thinks Sanji will low diff King lol, but if he did he would 100% be stronger than even Luffy.
> 
> The answer you gave basically means its impossible in your opinion for Sanji to be even close to Zoro, unless he goes on the rooftop.


I doubt Oda ever planned for Sanji to be more impressive than Zoro in Wano(or even anywhere else fighting wise) so it isn't that surprising Oda has put Zoro in a situation and scenario where he won't be outdone by Sanji when it comes to fighting. 

There is simply nothing to do underneath the roof that would be more impressive then taking on 2 Yonkous even 5 vs 2. 

We've already seen several times that Yonkous can borderline no diff commanders(Kaido one shot G4 Luffy, Amnesic BM w/o her homies rag dolled Queen). Beating these guys does nothing to prove one is more impressive than anyone taking on Yonkous respectability and not downright get one shot at the mere sight of a Yonkou getting serious. 

Zoro is part of a fight where they've pushed Kaido to go into his hybrid form. They've basically handled Kaido enough, who by the way had BM support, to the point he decided to bust his hybrid form. 

I mean nothing below could really top that, wouldn't you think so?

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## Kroczilla (Feb 20, 2021)

Magentabeard said:


> My point is clear: Using Kaku and Jyabura's douriki to gauge Zoro and Sanji is flawed and inaccurate


It's only flawed in the sense that it doesn't take into account their respective specialities. However, it was quite clear in the context of the story that Oda was trying to highlight the opponents of Zoro and Sanji as nigh-equals.
In that sense, it isn't flawed.




Magentabeard said:


> You seem to understand as I do - Douriki measured rokushiki strength and thats it.


Douriki measures strength as it relates to the average fodder marine, not one's skills with Rokushiki.




Magentabeard said:


> Its not that I think strength tests should involve swords. Its that if we are using a strength test to gauge the combat ability of Kaku/Jyabura and then transfer that to Zoro/Sanji, its that swordsmen get underrated,


Not exactly for the reason that while martial arts involve physical strikes, clearly technique being applied makes a world of difference.

Swordsmen simply translate this martial art ability into the use of their respective weapons. Not to mention Oda went out of his way to give Jabra a way to compensate for any perceived advantage a sword user might have by making him the only one who could combine tekkai with his martial arts I.e. his defense was constant and his strikes would be far more powerful.




Magentabeard said:


> more so than the person who uses mainly uses strikes similar to the one done in the test. Even then its not great because of DFs, unique abilities and whatnot




See above. Martial arts isn't merely an act of randomly hitting stuffs. There's technique involved.


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## ClannadFan (Feb 20, 2021)

maupp said:


> I doubt Oda ever planned for Sanji to be more impressive than Zoro in Wano(or even anywhere else fighting wise) so it isn't that surprising Oda has put Zoro in a situation and scenario where he won't be outdone by Sanji when it comes to fighting.
> 
> There is simply nothing to do underneath the roof that would be more impressive then taking on 2 Yonkous even 5 vs 2.
> 
> ...


I'd say that if Sanji Mid Diff'd King, then he would be above of Zoro's current feats. More than likely if Sanji does fight King, it will be High or Extreme diff.

My reasoning for that is, the general consensous is that Luffy is not quite Admiral lvl yet. This would clearly apply to Zoro as well, since he is below Luffy. An Admiral would take atleast mid diff to beat a YC1 (Assuming all around Katakuri lvl) 

So if Sanji were to mid diff King, which he wont, then that would be a way to prove that he could more than hold his own on the rooftop, without actually going on the rooftop.


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## Kingslayer (Feb 20, 2021)

maupp said:


> I doubt Oda ever planned for Sanji to be more impressive than Zoro in Wano(or even anywhere else fighting wise) so it isn't that surprising Oda has put Zoro in a situation and scenario where he won't be outdone by Sanji when it comes to fighting.
> 
> There is simply nothing to do underneath the roof that would be more impressive then taking on 2 Yonkous even 5 vs 2.
> 
> ...


@bolded : false

Where are you getting yonkos are no diffing YCs  ?  I mean this is generic lies you are spreading  what about killer  who was steamrolling kaido  in earlier chapter are you still pushing him above YC1 ?:tired pepe: ( Dont show me thunder bagua again he one shot Oden as well then you will say Oden is YC1 level)

@Ren.  , @Kroczilla  , @Mylesime  maupp twisting narrrative again .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ClannadFan (Feb 20, 2021)

If Sanji

Low diffs King, he's the new Captain

Mid diffs, he's Admiral lvl, this would only be possible if Luffy and Zoro become clearly Admiral lvl themself on the rooftop.

High Diffs, this is roughly where I imagine Ashura Zoro would be. This is also the outcome that I think would give the most heated debates with the Zoro and Sanji fans.

Extreme diff, if Zoro does not get any more feats then the Sanji and Zoro debates are back in full swing, with the Sanji side having a decent arguement imo. But more than likely, Zoro will get more feats, and this will not be enough for Sanji.


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## Kingslayer (Feb 20, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> If Sanji
> 
> Low diffs King, he's the new Captain
> 
> ...


It will be extreme diff fight if he face either of the commander . King is pretty strong even for the level strawhats are facing and he is able to withtand Marco that is enough to tell you his level .

I will agree  one thing Enma Zoro will likely be on same level as Oden or higher by end of wano . This fact i conclude from reading wano storyline Oda is hyping up Zoro's feat in yonko storyline .


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## ClannadFan (Feb 20, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> It will be extreme diff fight if he face either of the commander . King is pretty strong even for the level strawhats are facing and he is able to withtand Marco that is enough to tell you his level .
> 
> I will agree  one thing Enma Zoro will likely be on same level as Oden or higher by end of wano . This fact i conclude from reading wano storyline Oda is hyping up Zoro's feat in yonko storyline .


Extreme diff is the most likely outcome. This would be in line with Oda's portrayal of the Monster trio. That would give the Sanji fans just enough so that they could argue for Sanji>Zoro. It'd be a losing battle though, like it's always been. This is coming from a Sanji fan.


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## Kingslayer (Feb 20, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Extreme diff is the most likely outcome. This would be in line with Oda's portrayal of the Monster trio. That would give the Sanji fans just enough so that they could argue for Sanji>Zoro. It'd be a losing battle though, like it's always been. This is coming from a Sanji fan.


That is very much true because narrative stand point Luffy , Zoro , Sanji  are still monster trio they will need serious level up after this arc it will be Admiral level /Marco - kata level fighter they will need to take on  post wano . Their bounty will shot up as well it makes sense Zoro to be oden level , Sanji to be on king/Queen powerlevel  .

It  will be tough task for oda especially for both how will he manage Zoro and Sanji powerlevel by end of wano without asspulls  thats why Enma and Raid suit was only option he could go with . Sanji still needs to show his pre ts he learned in kambakka yet so he will display  those .


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## Mercurial (Feb 20, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> There's nothing really blatant that points to Zoro having increased the disparity between him and Sanji since their original power dynamic.


Like... the entire New World?

Unbelievable how everyone who isn't a Sanji-obsessed like you and your few fellas tells you to stop with this, and you still desperately go again and again. You aren't even saying "Sanji is that good", you are only trying to sustain that "Zoro isn't too much better than him" do you see how it's pathetical? Don't be so delusional!

Do you see Sanji's strength being acknowledged by Yonko?
Do you see Sanji overpowering a Yonko with mere low/mid tier moves of his, and wounding him in the process?
Do you see Sanji completely tanking attacks from a Yonko?
Why isn't Sanji a Supernova?
Why Oda chose Zoro for the big moment in TB instead of Sanji or instead of both?
Why does Zoro seem the right hand Rayleigh style, a brother and partner for the captain, while Sanji seems like Gaban, equal to the rest of the crew, just stronger and more relevant if needed, but never showed as a partner?
Why people see Zoro and Sanji and about the former they say he is so strong that he could be the captain, about the latter they say nothing, just that he is strong?
Why Oda had Rufy train with Rayleigh, Zoro train with Mihawk and... Sanji train with Ivankov?
Do you see Zoro being overpowered in a sword duel by a non swordsman who is holding back his CoA and weapon of choice? Like Sanji was overpowered in a kick fight by someone who isn't a kicker and was holding back his CoA and weapon of choice?

Oh but they have gags. Let's ignore everything else, they have gags.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Ren. (Feb 20, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> I will agree one thing Enma Zoro will likely be on same level as Oden or higher by end of wano .


I put peak Luffy to be equal to Oden as I have Oden at mid-Top tier night equal to the likes of Fujitora.

I don't think zoro will be better than Oden who has mastered 2 swords, as Enma after Wano.

Again Oden faced Kaido alone and almost killed him. Neither Luffy nor Zoro will have that feat in Wano.


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## Kingslayer (Feb 20, 2021)

Ren. said:


> I put peak Luffy to be equal to Oden as I have Oden at mid Top tier nigh equal to the likes of Fujitora.
> 
> I don't think zoro will be better than Oden who has mastered 2 swords, as Enma after Wano.
> 
> Again Oden faced Kaido alone and almost killed him. Neither Luffy nor Zoro will have that feat in Wano.


I think Luffy will get one on one against Kaido , i am going full house here . Oda has made this plot since Moriah's arc . Luffy will need to move beyond Oden and has to take steps in the area where he fights Blackbeard and Shanks now .

Kaido never lost his one on one against anyone and luffy has always crossed the barrier . I  know there will be one big plottwist that will help luffy not sure if it works but that will  make  decent one on one fight .


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## Ren. (Feb 20, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> I think Lufffy will get one on one against Kaido , i am going full house here .


Yes but at that point, I don't think Kaido will be close to 100% at all so the point still stands.

Oda can give Luffy some buffs from Hawkins of even Moria if he comes etc.

I don't think he surpasses Oden now, he will be as good as Oden then after Wano he will start at ~Admiral level towards Yonko level to be ready for An Admiral fight and then Shanks or BB.

I still think that Kaido can high diff him after Wano 1vs1 all out vs After Wano Luffy.

When he defeats a top tier and my money is on an Admiral to really shake the WG he can go extreme diff with Kaido mid-fight.


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## Kingslayer (Feb 20, 2021)

Ren. said:


> Yes but at that point, I don't think Kaido will be close to 100% at all so the point still stands.
> 
> Oda can give Luffy some buffs from Hawkins of even Moria if he comes etc.
> 
> ...


Yea that is true  thats why i think Law and kidd will briefly take over the fight and damage hybrid kaido  for Luffy to get his one  on one at flower capital . 

Ya Admiral level Luffy will make sense i think he  will need to face Greenbull and others  in future fights , i am pretty sure Akainu will start tabbing luffy's movement with Marines .


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> *Kaido never lost his one on one against anyone* and luffy has always crossed the barrier . I  know there will be one big plottwist that will help luffy not sure if it works but that will  make  decent one on one fight .



Who did he even fight one on one? Anyone noteworthy?

If he did he never won either.

Maybe that's why Oda keeps saying "he's said to be" instead of being clear that he undoubtedly is.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Kingslayer (Feb 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Who did he even fight one on one? Anyone noteworthy?
> 
> If he did he never won either.
> 
> Maybe that's why Oda keeps saying "he's said to be" instead of being clear that he undoubtedly is.


Thats why i made another thread . Why none of the top tiers challenged  him Its plot by oda again .

Maybe you are right its a rumor that spread across sea and it creates to fight him .


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> Thats why i made another thread . Why none of the top tiers challenged  him Its plot by oda again .
> 
> Maybe you are right its a rumor that spread across sea and it creates to fight him .



It's pretty much confirmed to be a rumour. Not only twice in the manga Oda went out of his way to call him the strongest and instead went with "people say" but also in the latest SBS/Interview he once again confirmed it.

The problem is, Kaido got nothing going for him. He obviously is strong but other than that what is interesting about him that binds the reader? So Oda made a connection to Oden and the closed off nation plot that was unsolved yet. So the only thing (strength) which obviously will be surpassed in the future.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Captain Altintop (Feb 20, 2021)

Zoro should win around *high *(high) difficulty.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Isazi (Feb 20, 2021)

what if Sanji wins?


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## Kingslayer (Feb 20, 2021)

Isazi said:


> what if Sanji wins?


Current version nope yet to see his Raid suit how will it scale against commander . I think Zoro is safely YC1 based on the feats from  rooftop right now .


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## Isazi (Feb 20, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> Current version nope yet to see his Raid suit how will it scale against commander . I think Zoro is safely YC1 based on the feats from  rooftop right now .


you cant say nope to a totally pluasible outcome. zoro  hasnt done anything out of the scope of what Sanji can do.


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## Kingslayer (Feb 20, 2021)

Isazi said:


> you cant say nope to a totally pluasible outcome. zoro  hasnt done anything out of the scope of what Sanji can do.


Ya but we dont know Raid suit sanji works against Commander level fighters yet ?  We know he can take F6 easily but what about Zoro's  missed slash on chapter 1002  where do you scale it then ? I took all those by account  and  i am waiting for RS abilities which oda will show in upcoming chapter .


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## Beast (Feb 20, 2021)

Can Zoro even tag Sanji?


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

Can Sanji even kick through Zoro's swords + CoA defense/block threshold?

Or will he lose his legs in the process? 

If he can't how is he ever hoping of taking an endurance beast like Zoro out? 

Will he twerk around him?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 8


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 20, 2021)

Isazi said:


> you cant say nope to a totally pluasible outcome. zoro  hasnt done anything out of the scope of what Sanji can do.


His feats against kaido>>>>anything Sanji has done and can do 

Wtf ?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Beast (Feb 20, 2021)

Endurance beast?
I’m sure all it takes is a few days of fighting and he gets hungry and then dies.
Either Sanji wins due starving out Zoro or its draw because one can’t tag the other but other can’t finish off the other.


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## Captain Altintop (Feb 20, 2021)

Beast said:


> Endurance beast?
> I’m sure all it takes is a few days of fighting and he gets hungry and then dies.
> Either Sanji wins due starving out Zoro or its draw because one can’t tag the other but other can’t finish off the other.


Partly correct, but I doubt being faster means automatically winning a fight. 

Otherwise Kizaru would beat everyones ass.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

So Sanji is not even gonna attempt to fight and kick through Zoro's sword + CoA block?

Well I can live with that. In the battledome, running/staying away from his opponent is considered a loss. 

So Zoro no diffs by BD standarts. Sanji loses his legs when he attempts to meet the swords head on.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 20, 2021)

Current Sanji loses mid diff and im generous to him

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Kingslayer (Feb 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Can Sanji even kick through Zoro's swords + CoA defense/block threshold?
> 
> Or will he lose his legs in the process?
> 
> ...


Wait for few more weeks. We'll come back here and i will add this quote of yours in my sig  .

Take it with pride for now.


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## Kingslayer (Feb 20, 2021)

Ice devil and fenaker are probably dupe accounts of Shishio.  Gonna ask kinjin to verify if Shishio has main here.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Isazi (Feb 20, 2021)

ice demon slayer said:


> His feats against kaido>>>>anything Sanji has done and can do
> 
> Wtf ?


What feats does he have against Kaidou. a small cut. it's not even on a scale above what the scabbards did.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Isazi (Feb 20, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> Ya but we dont know Raid suit sanji works against Commander level fighters yet ?  We know he can take F6 easily but what about Zoro's  missed slash on chapter 1002  where do you scale it then ? I took all those by account  and  i am waiting for RS abilities which oda will show in upcoming chapter .


He cut a horn. That's not like a world breaking record.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> Wait for few more weeks. We'll come back here and i will add this quote of yours in my sig  .
> 
> Take it with pride for now.



And then?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Kingslayer (Feb 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> And then?


We just hope you dont take it back and say sanji is awesome later.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> We just hope you dont take it back and say sanji is awesome later.



I was one of the first few that placed him against a YC like Queen while Vergo jokes were still making a round.




If his fans weren't so greedy things would be way better here. At least when it comes to me.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Kingslayer (Feb 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> I was one of the first few that placed him against a YC like Queen while Vergo jokes were still making a round.
> 
> 
> 
> ...

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kingslayer (Feb 20, 2021)

Well i agree sanji fans do exaggerate  a bit but i know oda still  has Zoro > Sanji this will not change much .


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

See that's the perfect example. I gave Sanji props when he had the advantage in feats, have yet to witness them do the same. But in the end iam called the Zorotard by all his haters ^^

Reactions: Like 2


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## Canute87 (Feb 20, 2021)

Beast said:


> Can Zoro even tag Sanji?



he can react and counter.

Luffy couldn't overpower zoro from breaking out of the grip and doing a whirlwind attack back in croc's arc. 

 Sanji is not doing that with one leg.  Sanji is fast but he isn't gear 2 fast. 

If Sanji had mid range moves that would provide a massive problem though but he has to engage in close quarters. 


Sanji should have learned Rankyaku.  Maybe it's not too late.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Kingslayer (Feb 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> See that's the perfect example. I gave Sanji props when he had the advantage in feats, have yet to witness them do the same. But in the end iam called the Zorotard by all his haters ^^


Btw thanks for recommending Travalota's gif lol
 I watched it today cant believe he is damn good in musical dance .

Reactions: Like 2


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> he can react and counter.
> 
> Luffy couldn't overpower zoro from breaking out of the grip and doing a whirlwind attack back in croc's arc.
> 
> ...



I honestly don't see much to complain here. Only Luffy and Sanji learned a rokushiki ability from Cp. It would be better to give the weaker strawhats some abilities too. Usopp with kami-e would be a goddamn monster and bitch to hit for example.



Dark Shadow said:


> Btw thanks for recommending Travalota's gif lol
> I watched it today cant believe he is damn good in musical dance .



No problem. Travolta is awesome. He is a damn good actor and dances pretty well. Dope movies.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Canute87 (Feb 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> I honestly don't see much to complain here. Only Luffy and Sanji learned a rokushiki ability from Cp. It would be better to give the weaker strawhats some abilities too. Usopp with kami-e would be a goddamn monster and bitch to hit for example.
> 
> 
> 
> No problem. Travolta is awesome. He is a damn good actor and dances pretty well. Dope movies.


I just think it would really complete him as a fighter.

Sanji can effortlessly put distance between himself and a character with geppu  but if he can't attack from a  distance then there isn't much point to it or to be more precise it's effectiveness combat wise is underutilized.

All he does is give the enemy enough time to compose and get ready for the next attack if he does something like a geppou during battle.



I don't know , I  rather like the comical ways ussop and nami dodge shit   Remember Enel?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> I just think it would really complete him as a fighter.
> 
> Sanji can effortlessly put distance between himself and a character with geppu  but if he can't attack from a  distance then there isn't much point to it or to be more precise it's effectiveness combat wise is underutilized.
> 
> All he does is give the enemy enough time to compose and get ready for the next attack if he does something like a geppou during battle.



If he would have a big range, whats the point of giving him geppou? Big doubt he gets long range attacks.



Canute87 said:


> I don't know , I  rather like the comical ways ussop and nami dodge shit   Remember Enel?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Canute87 (Feb 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> If he would have a big range, whats the point of giving him geppou? Big doubt he gets long range attacks.



if the man can stay suspended in air while launching attacks it's a pretty dangerous combination.

So Sanji has both ground and aerial mobility as well as attacks.  

I forgot about that. man you have to admit the fights were more creative back then.


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## Beast (Feb 20, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> he can react and counter.
> 
> Luffy couldn't overpower zoro from breaking out of the grip and doing a whirlwind attack back in croc's arc.
> 
> ...


It was a joke using the same logic as the ZKK gang.
If you take everything literally and at face value... it really is like that.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 20, 2021)

Isazi said:


> What feats does he have against Kaidou. a small cut. it's not even on a scale above what the scabbards did.


Wtf ?
Did you even read the fight to say something like that ?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Ren. (Feb 21, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> Ice devil and fenaker are probably dupe accounts of Shishio.  Gonna ask kinjin to verify if Shishio has main here.


Ice is another member of WG and is too polite for him to be Shihio.

But yeah, Zoro defeats pre-Udon Luffy and low-mid diffs Sanji. Garbage take.


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 21, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> Ice devil and fenaker are probably dupe accounts of Shishio.  Gonna ask kinjin to verify if Shishio has main here.


What's wrong with you ????

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 21, 2021)

Zoro fans here are okay. No Pica wank. No Page One rematch. I would say I'll troll Zoro if this place is that shit hole forum tbf. I prefer to troll WBP here. Vista and Jozu top tier wank headcannon need to be destroyed.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Ren. (Feb 21, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> No Pica wank


Pica YC2 to this day forever  

That thread in here would last 5m. I would make sure of that.

Reactions: Like 2


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## ho11ow (Feb 21, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> It don't matter how strong Zoro gets, just wait till my boy Sanji gets future sight. Zoro won't be able to touch him :^)


Sanji already have jellybean COO that is equivalent of Katakuri's FS

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kinjin (Feb 21, 2021)

I've seen you bring up that other forum and bring drama over here far too many times. Stop doing that please @Dark Shadow @Ren. 

If you have suspicions of someone being a dupe account use the report function.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 21, 2021)

ho11ow said:


> Sanji already have jellybean COO that is equivalent of Katakuri's FS


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## Ren. (Feb 21, 2021)

Kinjin said:


> I've seen you bring up that other forum and bring drama over here far too many times. Stop doing that please @Dark Shadow @Ren.
> 
> If you have suspicions of someone being a dupe account use the report function.


O we are not the only ones knowing that, most formal OJ members can see that from how they post or when they use edited pictures from Cinera.

And we already stopped talking about it. No drama here.

If you want someone, check my profile, I can't report that as he made the account to only post on my profile, check that out if you want.


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## Kinjin (Feb 21, 2021)

Ren. said:


> O we are not the only ones knowing that.
> 
> And we already stopped talking about it.
> 
> If you want someone, check my profile, I can't report that as he made the account to post on my profile, check that out if you want.


We already checked that account hours ago. Seems to be someone trying to bring drama over here. I‘ll keep an eye on him.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ren. (Feb 21, 2021)

Kinjin said:


> We already checked that account hours ago. Seems to be someone trying to bring drama over here. I‘ll keep an eye on him.


I already told @Dark Shadow to stop talking about it so there will be no drama as I don't really want that crap in here.

I say this, it will be a challenge to troll me with one account when an entire site could not


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## LordVinsmoke (Feb 21, 2021)

he atleast gives zoro high diff


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## maupp (Feb 21, 2021)

Isazi said:


> what if Sanji wins?


Only in blonde piece.


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## Isazi (Feb 21, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> See that's the perfect example. I gave Sanji props when he had the advantage in feats, have yet to witness them do the same. But in the end iam called the Zorotard by all his haters ^^


I guarantee when Sanji had better feats than Zoro you weren't saying Sanji>Zoro.

Sanji basically had better feats from thrillerbark up until Dressrosa. That's like a decade.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Isazi (Feb 21, 2021)

You cant even admit it now.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 21, 2021)

Isazi said:


> *I guarantee when Sanji had better feats than Sanji* you were saying Sanji>Zoro.
> 
> Sanji basically had better feats from thrillerbark up until Dressrosa. That's like a decade.



Sanji will have better feats than current Sanji soon.

Reactions: Like 1


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## LordVinsmoke (Feb 21, 2021)

By portrayal Stalemate By Feats Extreme diff

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Furinji Saiga (Feb 21, 2021)

LordRice said:


> he atleast gives zoro high diff





LordRice said:


> By portrayal Stalemate By Feats Extreme diff



Please tell me what happened. Who is the Zoro fan that hurt you. 


 

OP: Zoro beats Sanji medium-high difficulty.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 21, 2021)

Furinji Saiga said:


> Please tell me what happened. Who is the Zoro fan that hurt you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've read about that phenomenon, quite alot of users here have it. Multiple personality disorder.

He has at least another personality who is a Zoro fan where Sanji gives Zoro high diff. The moment his Sanji personality takes over it becomes a extreme diff/stalemate.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Lurko (Feb 21, 2021)

I don't think I posted in this thread... How do I have a notifaction?? @Ren.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Ren. (Feb 22, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> The problem with Zoro is can he scar Kaido one on one without help because his ap feat so far is because it's five vs two.


AP feat means nothing as Kaido in base and hybrid is super fast.

If this was Katakuri with Kaido's stats, Zoro would not land one hit because that is what he does, Kaido is the perfect thing to hype Zoro because of his mentality of always taking hits.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Veggie (Feb 22, 2021)

Zoro should mid diff sanji

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## maupp (Feb 22, 2021)

Isazi said:


> I guarantee when Sanji had better feats than Zoro you weren't saying Sanji>Zoro.
> 
> Sanji basically had better feats from thrillerbark up until Dressrosa. That's like a decade.


 

Name those feats.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## TheWiggian (Feb 22, 2021)

maupp said:


> Name those feats.



He doesn't know what you talk about, his Zoro fan persona took over already.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## maupp (Feb 22, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> He doesn't know what you talk about, his Zoro fan persona took over already.


Dude is trying to sell Sanji's feats superiority in arcs which had Zoro whistand all of Luffy's damage plus his own.(TB).

Arc which had Sanji shin broken by casual Vergo while Zoro made Monet piss herself(PH).

Arc which had Sanji neg diffed by Mingo while Zoro had a skirmish with Fujitora and came out looking good and same arc he fodderized Pika and his mountain size golem (DR).

The shamelessness it takes to claim Sanji had better feats than Zoro over that stretch (or any time ever) is next level.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Isazi (Feb 22, 2021)

maupp said:


> Name those feats.


did you watch thrillerbark through fishman islan. Did you see Sanji vs oars or HM. Both Sanji and Zoro had feats against Oars and as far as speed and strength goes Sanji was in an entierly different leauge.  Then on fishman island Sanji had HM which depending on how you want to scale that was a mountain esque level feat. Zoro wouldn't have a feat comparable or better untill the end of dressrosa. Obvisously he cut pica's golem and Sanji roasted a giant who was much bigger than oars.

What was better Sanji's throw away kind of  attack in the air with one leg or Zoro's strongest move in his arsenals that he needed to be thrown across the island to use. either way Sanji was more impressive feat wise in that decade.

Reactions: Useful 1 | Optimistic 1


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## maupp (Feb 22, 2021)

Isazi said:


> did you watch thrillerbark through fishman islan. Did you see Sanji vs oars or HM. Both Sanji and Zoro had feats against Oars and as far as speed and strength goes Sanji was in an entierly different leauge.  Then on fishman island Sanji had HM which depending on how you want to scale that was a mountain esque level feat. Zoro wouldn't have a feat comparable or better untill the end of dressrosa. Obvisously he cut pica's golem and Sanji roasted a giant who was much bigger than oars.
> 
> What was better Sanji's throw away kind of  attack in the air with one leg or Zoro's strongest move in his arsenals that he needed to be thrown across the island to use. either way Sanji was more impressive feat wise in that decade.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Isazi (Feb 22, 2021)

maupp said:


>


This is trump suppourter levels of ignorant bliss.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Red Admiral (Feb 22, 2021)

I never cared for Zoro nor Sanji to be their fan or hater
so I guess I don't have any agenda here

but

if we go by feat ... mid or lower
if we go by hopeful future ... around mid but a bit higher


come on people ... Zoro is doing MUCH better than Sanji can hope to do
Zoro is EFFECTIVLY fighting Kaido ... Sanji can't do maybe until EoS 
their rivalry can no longer about power ... unless Sanji beat King somehow

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gokou08 (Feb 24, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> he can react and counter.
> 
> Luffy couldn't overpower zoro from breaking out of the grip and doing a whirlwind attack back in croc's arc.
> 
> ...


Sanji speed shits on gear 2 rofl

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1


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## LordVinsmoke (Feb 24, 2021)

In Sanji's Defense He just needs more  battles oda has been neglecting him And Sanji and Zoro are portrayed to be equals but u can use cp9 as a example Luffy fought 1st Strongest Zoro 2nd Strongest Sanji 3rd Strongest
Kaku's Doriki was 2,200 Jabra 2,180 thats 20 higher  that's two average marines stated by Fukuro a average marine has a Doriki of 10 
Stop Shitting on Sanji

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Karma (Feb 24, 2021)

Wasnt Kaku's doroki measured before he ate his DF?


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## LordVinsmoke (Feb 24, 2021)

Karma said:


> Wasnt Kaku's doroki measured before he ate his DF?


doroki  doesnt include DF

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Canute87 (Feb 24, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> Sanji speed shits on gear 2 rofl


No it doesn't.

Luffy is physically superior to Sanji.  

There's no way Sanji can move faster than someone who's physically superior to him in addition  to using a technique that emphasizes speed. 


That's makes no sense.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Subtle (Feb 24, 2021)

Feats suggest, Zoro wins with nothing more than a mid diff.

Sanji needs more feats and better portrayal akin to Zoro to present a greater challenge.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MYJC (Feb 24, 2021)

Zoro mid diffs and that's generous to Sanji. The Grandmaster was able to hurt Kaido. I can't think of a single important character Sanji has ever hurt post-skip.

Sorry Sanji fans   but really it's a drop in a bucket of Ls

Reactions: Like 1


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## Veggie (Feb 25, 2021)

MYJC said:


> Zoro mid diffs and that's generous to Sanji. The Grandmaster was able to hurt Kaido. I can't think of a single important character Sanji has ever hurt post-skip.
> 
> Sorry Sanji fans   but really it's a drop in a bucket of Ls


Sanji is oda's step child while Luffy and Zoro are his first and second borns

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Delta Shell (Feb 25, 2021)

Honestly I think it's light work for Zoro atm. It hurts me to say it but hopefully that will change with the end of Wano.


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## Draco Bolton (Feb 25, 2021)

?????


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## Djomla (Feb 25, 2021)

Zoro, obviously.


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## Gokou08 (Feb 25, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> No it doesn't.
> 
> Luffy is physically superior to Sanji.
> 
> ...


Being physically stronger doesn't mean he is faster, Lucci was stronger than Luffy and Luffy was still faster than him, Sanji Speed>Gear 2, Sanji fighting style revolves about being agile, whether he fights queen or king, do you think Gear 2 speed is enough for these guys?


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## MYJC (Feb 25, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> Being physically stronger doesn't mean he is faster, Lucci was stronger than Luffy and Luffy was still faster than him, Sanji Speed>Gear 2, Sanji fighting style revolves about being agile, whether he fights queen or king, do you think Gear 2 speed is enough for these guys?



Yes   

G2 Luffy would embarrass Sanji. Maybe with the RAID suit he can put up a slight fight but otherwise he gets wrecked.


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## Canute87 (Feb 25, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> Being physically stronger doesn't mean he is faster


Agreed. But it's one of the reasons why I also put THAT  together with the fact that Luffy specifically has a speed technique.

Being physically stronger in itself doesn't mean that, but when you also don't have a speed technique then the entire logic is ironclad.

There's no way Sanji could be faster than Luffy using a speed technique if he didn't have some physical superiority. 

 Sanji has neither an answer to soru or an answer to luffy's physical superiority. BOTH things.  That's the important part.

Any other methods to achieving superior speed lies with outliers like for example the below:



Gokou08 said:


> , Lucci was stronger than Luffy and Luffy was still faster than him,


Luffy was damn near killing himself to achieve that. Man was shredding his life force.



Gokou08 said:


> Sanji Speed>Gear 2, Sanji fighting style revolves about being agile, whether he fights queen or king, do you think Gear 2 speed is enough for these guys?



Luffy is more agile, more flexible, stronger and significantly fast.  

G2 speed is enough for King and Queen.  Speed isn't the problem here anymore, it's power.

G2 Power wise? Nope.  If flamingo was laughing off G2 attacks what the hell is King and Queen going to do?


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## YonkoDrippy (Apr 4, 2021)

It’s obvious Zoro is stronger but how big is the gap between them? How much difficulty does Zoro beat Sanji with?

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Apr 4, 2021)

Low difficulty.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Siskebabas (Apr 4, 2021)

Feat wise low diff, in actuality maybe high diff?? If luffy gets one shotted by base kaido in g4 then later tanks hybrid attacks in base, everything is possible

Reactions: Agree 4


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## YonkoDrippy (Apr 4, 2021)

Mikasa said:


> Low difficulty.


Hurry and delete this before the Sanji fans jump you

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | GODA 1


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## ice demon slayer (Apr 4, 2021)

By feats

Neg diff

Reactions: Winner 3


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## ClannadFan (Apr 4, 2021)

Where's the Sanji wins option?

Reactions: Funny 13


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## ice demon slayer (Apr 4, 2021)

End of wano Zoro also beats Eow Sanji low diff

Reactions: Creative 1 | GODA 1


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 4, 2021)

Feat, portrayal, everything wise, Zoro high diffs, can maybe even mid diff but doubt it.

But as I said in the last 20 SanjivsZoro threads, Zoro vs Sanji will always be extreme diff, no matter how much stronger Zoro is shown to be

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 6


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## Sablés (Apr 4, 2021)

Difference between Zoro and Sanji rn is bigger than Doflamingo and DR Sanji.

Low-diff fight.



Strobacaxi said:


> But as I said in the last 20 SanjivsZoro threads, Zoro vs Sanji will always be extreme diff, no matter how much stronger Zoro is shown to be


What is logic, common sense or objectivity?

Reactions: Winner 6


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## o0Fujitora0o (Apr 4, 2021)

Feat wise low diff
Actually should be High diff as always .


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 4, 2021)

mid since I am generous


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 4, 2021)

Sablés said:


> What is logic, common sense or objectivity?


To Oda? Not much.


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## Sablés (Apr 4, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> To Oda? Not much.


Damn. Everybody be working with Oda nowadays.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Apr 4, 2021)

By what they’ve shown low diff but by the iron law of m3 he needs high diff


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## YonkoDrippy (Apr 4, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Where's the Sanji wins option?


In you’re dreams


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 4, 2021)

Sablés said:


> Damn. Everybody be working with Oda nowadays.


If you count following and discussing his work weekly for 10 years working with him, yeah


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## Canute87 (Apr 4, 2021)

Raid suit Sanji?


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## Corax (Apr 4, 2021)

Voted mid.diff,but to be fair by feats and portrayal this is closer to low. Sanji desperately needs his Wano feats to close the gap.


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## Draco Bolton (Apr 4, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 8


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## TheRealSJ (Apr 4, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> It’s obvious Zoro is stronger but how big is the gap between them? How much difficulty does Zoro beat Sanji with?


Oda is planning a mr prince moment for sanji, which is why he hasnt been in recent chapters. Wano shares many similarities with Ennies Lobby. The monster trio each get their own powerups and the strawhats each get their own fights. Sanji gets beat up by a lady until a female fighter from the strawhats saves him and he later has a badass moment and becomes MVP of the arc. 
Post this thread after wano, sanji may look bad rn but i have faith in Oda. Redemption is coming.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Van Basten (Apr 4, 2021)

Y’all disrespectful.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 4, 2021)

LordRice said:


> portrayal wise Zoro=Sanji


Excuse me? I don't see Sanji up there fighting Yonkos


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 4, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Excuse me? I don't see Sanji up there fighting Yonkos


of course not someone has to fight king or queen and it makes more sense for zoro to fight kaido because of enma


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 4, 2021)

LordRice said:


> of course not someone has to fight king or queen and it makes more sense for zoro to fight kaido because of enma


So how is their portrayal the same, if one is fighting side by side with Luffy against the captain of the enemy, while Sanji is off fighting the 2nd or 3rd in command?


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 4, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> So how is their portrayal the same, if one is fighting side by side with Luffy against the captain of the enemy, while Sanji is off fighting the 2nd or 3rd in command?


i wouldnt use that because then you could say killer=luffy


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## Maruo (Apr 4, 2021)

Based on current showings, Zoro no diffs. Maybe low diffs at best, considering how Sanji took King's attack.

Based on how strong I think Sanji actually is (between YC1 and YC2), Zoro mid diffs.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 4, 2021)

Maruo said:


> Based on current showings, Zoro no diffs. Maybe low diffs at best, considering how Sanji took King's attack.
> 
> Based on how strong I think Sanji actually is (between YC1 and YC2), Zoro mid diffs.


Zoro no diffs ? sanji is a yc2 zoro is a yc1 he high diffs

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Maruo (Apr 4, 2021)

LordRice said:


> Zoro no diffs ? sanji is a yc2 zoro is a yc1 he high diffs



I have Zoro on the upper end of YFM+ (characters like Marco, Beckman, Rayleigh). In my opinion, YFM+ high diffs YFM (Katakuri, King) and YFM high diffs YC2 (Queen, Smoothie). So that turns into an average YFM+ mid diffing an average YC2. I have both Zoro and Sanji as being above the average YFM+ and YC2 respectively so based on this, I believe Zoro mid diffs Sanji.

Like I said, I think Zoro might no diff Sanji based on current feats. He might low diff him as well. Sanji doesn't really have any feats as of now that put him at the level of YC2 or greater. He is YC3 ~ YC4 based on feats. Once again though, I don't actually believe Sanji is this weak.


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 4, 2021)

Maruo said:


> I have Zoro on the upper end of YFM+ (characters like Marco, Beckman, Rayleigh). In my opinion, YFM+ high diffs YFM (Katakuri, King) and YFM high diffs YC2 (Queen, Smoothie). So that turns into an average YFM+ mid diffing an average YC2. I have both Zoro and Sanji as being above the average YFM+ and YC2 respectively so based on this, I believe Zoro mid diffs Sanji.
> 
> Like I said, I think Zoro might no diff Sanji based on current feats. He might low diff him as well. Sanji doesn't really have any feats as of now that put him at the level of YC2 or greater. He is YC3 ~ YC4 based on feats. Once again though, I don't actually believe Sanji is this weak.


upper yfm+ now damn he just got enma and now he goes from vista level to yfm+
a yc1 is not no diffing a yc3
Edit: i just read you said zoro is on beckman level


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## ShadoLord (Apr 4, 2021)

o0Fujitora0o said:


> Feat wise low diff
> Actually should be High diff as always .


so mid-diff for the middle grounds

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shanks (Apr 4, 2021)

Zoro wins high dif. 

Sanji have flight mobility, Coo, invisibility, etc. It's not going to be easy to land a good hit on Sanji.

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Maruo (Apr 4, 2021)

LordRice said:


> a yc1 is not no diffing a yc3



I would say a YFM+ low diffs a YC3 and no diffs a YC4. A normal YFM mid diffs a YC3.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 4, 2021)

Maruo said:


> I have Zoro on the upper end of YFM+ (characters like Marco, Beckman, Rayleigh). In my opinion, YFM+ high diffs YFM (Katakuri, King) and YFM high diffs YC2 (Queen, Smoothie). So that turns into an average YFM+ mid diffing an average YC2. I have both Zoro and Sanji as being above the average YFM+ and YC2 respectively so based on this, I believe Zoro mid diffs Sanji.
> 
> Like I said, I think Zoro might no diff Sanji based on current feats. He might low diff him as well. Sanji doesn't really have any feats as of now that put him at the level of YC2 or greater. He is YC3 ~ YC4 based on feats. Once again though, I don't actually believe Sanji is this weak.


Sanji is having better speed and mobilty and better CoO he is not low diffing or mid diffing
​


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## A Optimistic (Apr 4, 2021)

Zoro oneshots.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## ice demon slayer (Apr 4, 2021)

By feats

Zoro beats 3 sanji at the same time

Reactions: Like 1


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 4, 2021)

Maruo said:


> I would say a YFM+ low diffs a YC3 and no diffs a YC4. A normal YFM mid diffs a YC3.


Zoro is a YFM level Sanji is a yc2 with RS he will be YFM+ after wano and sanji will be a low yc1(queen a yc2 if sanji beats him that makes him a yc1)


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## Captain Altintop (Apr 4, 2021)

It will be *high *(mid-high) difficulty as always.


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 4, 2021)

ice demon slayer said:


> By feats
> 
> Zoro beats 3 sanji at the same time


Asura Leg Sanji


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Apr 4, 2021)

LordRice said:


> i wouldnt use that because then you could say killer=luffy


Terrible.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## convict (Apr 4, 2021)

It has always been mid (East Blue) to high (Enies Lobby). Currently it is more mid difficulty.

Similarly Luffy vs Zoro has been high diff (Enies Lobby) to Equal (Arabasta). Currently it is Luffy extreme.

It does not have to be a set difficulty between the two throughout the journey, there can be variations depending on where they are in their training/experience. Even though I doubt it maybe Sanji makes some strides and it is high difficulty again next arc.

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 7, 2021)

Sanji is Lacking is the Feats Department as of now if we go by feats it should be mid diff

Reactions: Like 1


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## killfox (Apr 7, 2021)

Not saying Sanji wins but how does Zorro deal with invisibility?

Invisible flying hells memories with raid suit seems like a problem.


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 7, 2021)

killfox said:


> Not saying Sanji wins but how does Zorro deal with invisibility?
> 
> Invisible flying hells memories with raid suit seems like a problem.


Tatsumaki is a 360º AoE attack


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## killfox (Apr 7, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Tatsumaki is a 360º AoE attack


That’s cool and all but how will he know when to attack? Is he just going to be spinning all day in hopes of hitting Sanji?


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## trance (Apr 7, 2021)

zoro mid diffs


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## Daddy Masterson (Apr 7, 2021)

The only reason I'm going to say Zoro high diff is because I don't think we've seen the Raid Suit pushed to its limit yet, we're going to see the full extent of it by the end of this arc. Otherwise based only on feats Zoro would have an easier time.


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## Bobybobster (Apr 7, 2021)

zoro beats 9 sanji's at the same time with asura

Reactions: Like 1 | Lewd 1 | Dislike 1


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## TheWiggian (Apr 7, 2021)

Zoro destroys him badly at this point. Voted mid back then, should be like low currently and when Sanji gets feats it might goes mid again or even high but not higher.


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## TheRealSJ (Apr 7, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Zoro destroys him badly at this point. Voted mid back then, should be like low currently and when Sanji gets feats it might goes mid again or even high but not higher.


I partially agree. For now based off feats zoro low diffs. When sanji defeats king or something I'll regain my stance of high-extreme diff.


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## Adhominem (Apr 7, 2021)

If you go by Sanji's last fighting appearance its low diff

But I don't believe Zoro in the story is actually ever supposed to low diff his boy Sanji but its not a high-extreme diff fight like pre TS



















So I voted Sanji edges it out

The gap only grows as Sanji's goal is the All Blue and Zoro's is WSS

On top of Sanji spending 2 years under Ivankov ((and half that time learning recipes that aren't even mentioned in the story anymore), and Zoro Mihawk

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Mercurial (Apr 7, 2021)

Wasn't there a similar topic and poll already?
Anyway, at this point, it's clear that the gap between Zoro and Sanji is widened to be abysmal.

2nd strongest WG Supernova... vs not even worth to be a WG Supernova.
First Mate/Right Hand/Vice Captain... vs Left Hand.
In DR exchanged blows and kept up with an Admiral who praised him... vs got raped by Doflamingo in ten seconds and needed his life saved.
Protected his captain against two Yonko... vs failed to protect his captain against a bunch of Big Mom crewmembers.
Partially parried a combined attack from two Yonko with killing intent, holding that enough to create time for the others to save. themselves... vs got stomped in the dirt by a nameless attack from a YC.
Acknowledged by Yonkos vs... nothing
Wounded and scarred a Yonko in the latter's strongest form vs... nothing.

It's not that Sanji is bad. With the RS, he probably reaches YC level, so he is definitely good.
It's just that Zoro is so much stronger. The gap in portrayal and feats is abysmal.

After all, Zoro is created to be the future WSS (so to surpass someone on the level of the Yonkos) and to be for Rufy what Rayleigh was for Roger. While Sanji is just a strong crewmember, like Gaban.
So the massive gap is perfectly reasonable.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Conxc (Apr 7, 2021)

Sanji isn’t outputting even a fraction of Kaido and BM’s combined attack. Zoro blocked that head on and isn’t completely out of juice. He’s also hurt Kaido and both Yonkou have praised him. Meanwhile Sanji isn’t even battle tested against a single YC level character. He was pushed by characters just shy of even YC4 (Oven, Daifuku). We can even talk about Vergo...anything less than a stomp at this point is disrespectful to the Grandmaster based off what we’ve seen. Low diff if Zoro isn’t serious to start the fight. EZ claps if hes bloodlusted.

EDIT: Also Zoro has mastered the fire cutting techs. Sanji’s strongest attacks are fire based...

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## MYJC (Apr 7, 2021)

Low diff is starting to sound more and more reasonable..

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Van Basten (Apr 7, 2021)

The gap continues to grow.


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## Beast (Apr 8, 2021)

@Oda


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## Pirao (Jul 24, 2021)

Bump.


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## MrPopo (Jul 24, 2021)

Still Extreme diff

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Perrin (Jul 24, 2021)

Imagine if Sanji trained as much as zoro and didn’t limit himself to legs.


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## bil02 (Jul 24, 2021)

I'll be generous to Sanji and assume he would showcase a lot more new powers and versatility in his skillset against Queen and say he gives Zoro Low high diff.

Portrayal post Wano may also confirm that but that is the absolute best i can give Sanji right now against Rooftop 5 King of feats Zoro.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Amol (Jul 24, 2021)

High diff of course.
Same as always.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Gokou08 (Jul 24, 2021)

Perrin said:


> Imagine if Sanji trained as much as zoro and didn’t limit himself to legs.


Exactly this, Sanji could be a proficient martial artist using his Upper Body, he is already this good, he would be totally unpredictable in CqC..


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jul 24, 2021)

Lol. Very High to Extreme diff win for Zoro. Either gets Low diffed by Luffy.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 24, 2021)

By feats and portrayal Zoro destroys Sanji, but the arc is not over so i suspect Sanji will get some feats to bump him up to mid.

Reactions: Like 3


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## JayK (Jul 24, 2021)

in a shocking turn of events which everybody expected this is an extreme diff

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eustathios (Jul 24, 2021)

Zoro is and will always be stronger. By feats it should be less, but high diff by the end of Wano I guess.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## BladeofTheMorning (Jul 24, 2021)

Is Zoro stronger? Yes. Does that make it a easy win? No. I like them both, Zoro more so than Sanji, however with the Raid suit I think this would be an extreme difficulty fight. Sanji is a pretty analytical guy and could conjour some sort of plan during the fight. If he has the raid suit and invisibility, he could easily jump up in the air, retreat and gather his breathe/senses if the need be. 

We are talking about the future PK's left and right hand men, to me this is an extreme fight between the two, anything less is a insult to the M3 namesake and PK.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## AmitDS (Jul 24, 2021)

If I had to choose one winner, I'd give Zoro the win extreme diff 6/10 times only because he's VC/1st mate though I see Oda as keeping them as equals generally hence me voting stalemate for End of Wano version of these 2.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## convict (Jul 24, 2021)

Pretty sure I’ve answered this but nothing has changed since then. Zoro mid difficulty until we see more from Sanji that even scratches the surface of what Zoro has achieved this arc.

Reactions: Like 3


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jul 25, 2021)

Zoro high diff in perpetuity

Reactions: Like 1


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## DarkRasengan (Jul 25, 2021)

Zoro extreme diff, anything short of enma isnt going to brake the rs durability, hes not gonna tag sanji easily either with sanjis superior speed, superior CoO and invisibility, imo zoro gets bounced around for a while not being able to hit sanji, has to brake out asura and tank an attack from sanji in order to hit him, kind of like what sanji did to jyabura

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sablés (Jul 25, 2021)

BladeofTheMorning said:


> anything less is a insult to the M3 namesake


Was it also an insult when Post-EL Luffy could arguably have bodied both Zoro and Sanji simultaneously after unlocking gears.

Funny how this fixation only matters as a failsafe to keep Sanji relevant when the feats just won't agree. What's merit, amirite?

Reactions: Like 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jul 25, 2021)

Sablés said:


> *Was it also an insult when Post-EL Luffy could arguably have bodied both Zoro and Sanji simultaneously after unlocking gears.*
> 
> Funny how this fixation only matters as a failsafe to keep Sanji relevant when the feats just won't agree. What's merit, amirite?


It would have been if this were true.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Conxc (Jul 25, 2021)

The funny part is for *years* (basically all post ts) people have been maintaining that this is at least a high diff fight and for *years *the gap between them grew wider and wider to the point where it’s a freaking chasm and people still think Zoro would need at least high diff. That’s worse than any Zoro wanking that has happened since the start of OP because that is complete ignorance of canon feats/hype/ and portrayal discrepancies.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jul 26, 2021)

Still extreme because Sanji is too quick for him.


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## Mercurial (Jul 28, 2021)

Beast said:


> Still extreme because Sanji is too quick for him.


Just like Hybrid Kaido was too quick for him...

Oh wait.

Seriously, come on.
Sanji has clearly better movement speed. But out of runs and dynamic entries, in actual combat speed and reaction speed Zoro has far greater feats. Far greater.

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1


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## BladeofTheMorning (Jul 28, 2021)

Serious question: Did Kaido get blitz by Zoro due to the fact he has poor observation haki? I mean Luffy has some future sight abilities and still was barely able to dodge Kaido. Sanji has been hinted to have used future sight in WCI to avoid the jelley bean from Katakuri (I read it somewhere. . .Not sure if it was in a DB or what).


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## A Optimistic (Jul 28, 2021)

Zoro low difficulty. Sanji doesn't have any offensive abilities that come close to Hakai, and that's the minimum amount of power needed in order to defeat Zoro.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Beast (Jul 28, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Just like Hybrid Kaido was too quick for him...
> 
> Oh wait.
> 
> ...


Like Kaidou doesn’t just take hits for the sake of it, Zoro didn’t blitz him, as for the group battle in general... well, it was a group battle with all 5 being able to dodge or land hits on the yonko mainly Kaidou.

Sanji have better speed in base and then RS on top to boost it even further, Zoro isn’t easily hitting him and when he does he has the RS durability, while before there was a possibility of a one shot with any move mid tier move Zoro.

you might think of extreme diff to mean they are equal but they are not, Zoro would beat him each time with no losses but he isn’t doing it without going all out aka Ashura and come at sanji from 9 different angles.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## TheRealSJ (Jul 28, 2021)

Zoro bros are really using the hakai attack to overestimate how much it takes to put down Zoro...




They'll be down bad when he gets put down by much less in later arcs because I guarantee he won't only be falling from combined emperor attacks.


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## convict (Jul 28, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> Zoro bros are really using the hakai attack to overestimate how much it takes to put down Zoro...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Highly doubt that. After this arc the next stop for Zoro and Luffy is admiral/Yonkou level. We are reaching endgame here.


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## BladeofTheMorning (Jul 28, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Zoro low difficulty. Sanji doesn't have any offensive abilities that come close to Hakai, and that's the minimum amount of power needed in order to defeat Zoro.


Minimum? You’re saying only combined Yonko attacks can put Zoro to bed now? That’s outlandish and ridiculous and that’s coming from someone who has Zoro as his top three characters in all of OP.

Zoro has insane durability, no doubt, but he can be brought down from other attacks less powerful than Hakai but still very powerful. Long way to go to being the worlds strongest swordsman still.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Jul 29, 2021)

BladeofTheMorning said:


> You’re saying only combined Yonko attacks can put Zoro to bed now?



In one hit? Yes.


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## BladeofTheMorning (Jul 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> In one hit? Yes.


Well of course. It’s Hakai.
However I’m sure there are single person attacks that can take out Zoro in one hit. Akainu, Mihawk, Kizaru, BB, Imu and Kaido come to mind. But still Zoro is a beast, quality FM and WSS material.


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## A Optimistic (Jul 29, 2021)

BladeofTheMorning said:


> Well of course. It’s Hakai.
> However I’m sure there are single person attacks that can take out Zoro in one hit. Akainu, Mihawk, Kizaru, BB, Imu and Kaido come to mind. But still Zoro is a beast, quality FM and WSS material.



What I was trying to say is that Sanji has nothing in his arsenal that even comes close to Hakai so I can't see Zoro vs Sanji being anything more than a low difficulty fight.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Perrin (Jul 29, 2021)

BladeofTheMorning said:


> Long way to go to being the worlds strongest swordsman still.


how many swordsmen do u still have above zoro at this point?


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## BladeofTheMorning (Jul 29, 2021)

Perrin said:


> how many swordsmen do u still have above zoro at this point?


From a pure speculative point: Mihawk, Shanks, Rayleigh, Shiryu (either slightly greater or equal) and Gandhi Gorosei.

Also long way to go doesn’t necessarily mean opponents left, it’s experience. Mihawk can still take Zoro and it would be a low end mid diff fight in my eyes. Post Wano I would say high end of mid diff.


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## DarkRasengan (Jul 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Zoro low difficulty. Sanji doesn't have any offensive abilities that come close to Hakai, and that's the minimum amount of power needed in order to defeat Zoro.


So killers scythe to the shoulder is stronger than hakai now?


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## Quikdraw7777 (Jul 29, 2021)

Well, as it stands, the manga drawings are telling me this:



I gotta be honest - I'm not even a fan of Zoro, but his feats are f!cking *bonkers*. I need to see more from Sanji to justify even considering them to be close these days.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2


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## kumae (Jul 29, 2021)

Zoro low diffs
Rofl What kind of thread is this


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## Mihawk (Jul 29, 2021)

"Sanji edges out"  

Zoro high-diffs

Reactions: Funny 1


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## juju15112 (Jul 29, 2021)

Zoro mid diffs


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jul 29, 2021)

By feats and portrayal: zoro probably low
By intelligence: zoro high diff


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## TheRealSJ (Sep 27, 2021)

Resurrected thread because i am toxic and bored but mostly bored

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Conxc (Sep 27, 2021)

Zoro mid diff at worst for now.


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## Ren. (Sep 27, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> Resurrected thread because i am toxic and bored but mostly bored


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## The crazy hacker (Sep 27, 2021)

Honestly for the M3 to be intact then Luffy shouldn't low diff sanji. But I still think he beats him with lower end of mid diff and therefore Zoro also can mid diff him.


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## TheRealSJ (Sep 27, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Zoro mid diff at worst for now.


Pretty sure Zoro wouldnt be fighting back to back in a 2v2 with someone he could mid diff.



Not to talk if the fact they both saved each other against each enemy in this fight meaning they have similar portrayal.



Then this:



Not to talk of the fact they were both referred to as Luffy's "Wings" and also referred to as "the Stars" by Marco. Not Zoro the star, and Sanji that other guy




Its *at least a high diff.*

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Optimistic 1


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## TheRealSJ (Sep 27, 2021)

The crazy hacker said:


> Honestly for the M3 to be intact then Luffy shouldn't low diff sanji. But I still think he beats him with lower end of mid diff and therefore Zoro also can mid diff him.


Still pushing the Luffy = Zoro agenda after these past few chapters

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Sep 27, 2021)

Zoro has to crush King for me to believe he is near Luffy in power....Luffy already beat a YFM four power ups ago.


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## The crazy hacker (Sep 27, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> Still pushing the Luffy = Zoro agenda after these past few chapters


Not saying they are equal, they aren't far apart.


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## DarkRasengan (Sep 27, 2021)

The crazy hacker said:


> Not saying they are equal, they aren't far apart.


They  are farther apart than zoro and sanji

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 2


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## Heart Over Blade (Sep 27, 2021)

King and Queen aren't far apart. If Zoro needs the same difficulty to beat king as Sanji beating Queen, then they aren't far apart either.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Sep 27, 2021)

The crazy hacker said:


> Honestly for the M3 to be intact then Luffy shouldn't low diff sanji. But I still think he beats him with lower end of mid diff and therefore Zoro also can mid diff him.


Luffy high diffs zoro who high diffs sanji. If we go by feats drop those to mid or worse. Luffy is doing great pirate shit so feats work against your agenda.


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## Conxc (Sep 27, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> Pretty sure Zoro wouldnt be fighting back to back in a 2v2 with someone he could mid diff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They haven’t had similar portrayal all time skip. Idk why y’all pick and choose what to omit and what to focus on lmao. Zoro has had infinitely better portrayal all time skip. Matchup-wise Sanji has not shown anything in his arsenal that could do much to Zoro, but Zoro has plenty in his that Would fuck Sanji up. Zoro also has access to Kinnemon’s foxfire style which he used to deal with Kaido’s Boro Breath and Sanji’s strongest attacks are fire based. Enough’s enough with the “tHeY’rE iN tHe SaMe PaNeL” nonsense. Matchup wise Zoro wins comfortably. Feats and portrayal wise Zoro stomps.

EDIT: One ACoC imbued Oni Giri and Sanji gets the Kamazou treatment.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Oda Report (Sep 27, 2021)

Zoro wins period.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lmao (Sep 27, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Enough enough with the “tHeY’rE iN tHe SaMe PaNeL” nonsense.


That "nonsense" you speak of is portrayal and it's has been how Oda has always handled the dynamic between the two. Zoro gets to look good for the most part then Sanji is given a powerup to compensate. Ennies Lobby Ashura to DJ - Wano Enma to Raid Suit power up.

It has been this way for 1000 chapters, Zoro is never rolling Sanji in Oda's story.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## oiety (Sep 27, 2021)

Zoro high diffs at best.  Whatever body powerup Sanji gets will definitively reassert the parity between the two of them that's already been established in this arc by them taking on King and Queen. Seems like Oda is being pretty on the nose with it now after letting it drop a bit all throughout the timeskip, so why fight it?


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## Captain Altintop (Sep 27, 2021)

Luffy beats Zoro with *high *(_high_) diff.
Zoro beats Sanji with *high *(_highest_) diff.
Luffy beats Sanji with *high *(_lowest_) diff.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Conxc (Sep 27, 2021)

Lmao said:


> That "nonsense" you speak of is portrayal and it's has been how Oda has always handled the dynamic between the two. Zoro gets to look good for the most part then Sanji is given a powerup to compensate. Ennies Lobby Ashura to DJ - Wano Enma to Raid Suit power up.
> 
> It has been this way for 1000 chapters, Zoro is never rolling Sanji in Oda's story.


Post-ts Zoro has more panels and portrayal nexts to Luffy than Sanji and everyone ignores that, so if that’s all it takes, characters fighting next to each other on panel, then I guess Zoro and Luffy are extremely close as well, huh?

Such silly logic. Forget about matchups and the overwhelming amount of feats/portrayal that Zoro has that favor him. They’re fighting back to back so that trumps all.


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## Oda Report (Sep 27, 2021)

Zoro and Luffy are close in power, Sanji falls behind.

Seriously Sanji would be handled like Killer was or even Apoo pulling up on Zoro.

Sanji and Zoros gag rivalry isnt serious like Luffys and Zoro tug of war.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## DarkRasengan (Sep 27, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Post-ts Zoro has more panels and portrayal nexts to Luffy than Sanji and everyone ignores that, so if that’s all it takes, characters fighting next to each other on panel, then I guess Zoro and Luffy are extremely close as well, huh?
> 
> Such silly logic. Forget about matchups and the overwhelming amount of feats/portrayal that Zoro has that favor him. They’re fighting back to back so that trumps all.


He doesnt have more portrayals next to luffy though, zoro has better attack power and CoA feats than sanji, sanji has better durability, mobility, CoO feats than zoro

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Conxc (Sep 27, 2021)

DarkRasengan said:


> He doesnt have more portrayals next to luffy though, zoro has better attack power and CoA feats than sanji, sanji has better *durability*, mobility, CoO feats than zoro


He does. Re-read Wano. There’s the SJ cover with him and Luffy holding swords across Kaido’s neck.

And I’m sorry, what? Sanji has better durability feats than Zoro? In what universe besides SanjiLand, which exists strictly in your head?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Sep 27, 2021)

Zoro high difficulty. They are close in strength now that Oda has given Sanji a powerup.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Oda Report (Sep 27, 2021)

DarkRasengan said:


> He doesnt have more portrayals next to luffy though, zoro has better attack power and CoA feats than sanji, sanji has better durability, mobility, CoO feats than zoro



Sanji doesn't have better durability then Zoro.

Sanji may have better traveling speed However that doesnt mean anything when Zoro's combat speed matches those who are fast like Killer. 



A Optimistic said:


> Zoro high difficulty. They are close in strength now that Oda has given Sanji a powerup.



Enma says hi. 

and Zoro is fighting a very very powerful foe in King who is still in base while Queen is hybrid.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Sep 27, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Sanji doesn't have better durability then Zoro.


Bet? Zoro isn't going to be tankier than a Raid Suit.


DarkRasengan said:


> He doesnt have more portrayals next to luffy though, zoro has better attack power and CoA feats than sanji, sanji has better durability, mobility, CoO feats than zoro


Yeah, I cannot think of any instance post skip where Zoro was portrayed similarly to Luffy.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Sep 27, 2021)

Zoro is not particularly durable for his level he does have particularly high ENDURANCE because it’s an extension of his tenacity that’s driving him to become the WSS. Narrative narrative narrative when looking at power levels.


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## Oda Report (Sep 27, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Bet? Zoro isn't going to be tankier than a Raid Suit.



Zoro durability was matching luffys during part 1, Luffy has a df that adds to his durability.

In part 2 Zoro survived an attack from Kaidou and Big Mom.

I'll take that bet.

Or maybe I'm mismatching durability for endurance?


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Sep 27, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Zoro durability was matching luffys during part 1, Luffy has a df that adds to his durability.


No it wasnt and it definitely isn't now that Luffy has Gear 4.


Oda Report said:


> In part 2 Zoro survived an attack from Kaidou and Big Mom.


He also broke 30 bones in seconds while using his swords as shields....not sure how that's a measure of durability and not endurance. Zoro has greater endurance than Sanji.



Oda Report said:


> I'll take that bet.





truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Zoro is not particularly durable for his level he does have particularly high ENDURANCE because it’s an extension of his tenacity that’s driving him to become the WSS. Narrative narrative narrative when looking at power levels.


This.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Oda Report (Sep 27, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> No it wasnt and it definitely isn't now that Luffy has Gear 4.



Mr 1 says hello.
Zoro taking all the damage in thriller bark Luffy took with out the aid of rubber....Yeah.
Even arlong way back in esst blue was shocked Zoro was able to fight with those wounds from Mihawk that made arlong crap fish bebbles, and decide Zoro is too dangerous to keep around.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> He also broke 30 bones in seconds while using his swords as shields....not sure how that's a measure of durability and not endurance. Zoro has greater endurance than Sanji.



Yo Wait you complain about Zoro using his swords as shields with the use of haki yet sanji is using a full on raid suit?

O k

Zoro using his swords to block it/deflect the blast and them blades didn't break or even get nicked....Armament haki, seeing how it was from 2 Yonkou who wren't playing around and Zoro still being able to fight Kaidou and scar kaidou.......This speaks volume about durability when you are tanking lower end top tier attacks from bottom Yonkou with out being put out the game speaks more volumes.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Sep 27, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Mr 1 says hello.


Again, endurance not durability. Zoro is fairly tanky but being shredded and spewing blood is more an example of high endurance. Durability is about resisting damage and taking hits with little injury.


Oda Report said:


> Zoro taking all the damage in thriller bark Luffy took with out the aid of rubber....Yeah.


Luffy took more at Impel Down


Oda Report said:


> Even arlong way back in esst blue was shocked Zoro was able to fight with those wounds from Mihawk that made arlong crap fish bebbles, and decide Zoro is too dangerous to keep around.


Again, endurance. Zoro has better endurance than Sanji.


Oda Report said:


> Yo Wait you complain about Zoro using his swords as shields with the use of haki yet sanji is using a full on raid suit?


....I wasn't complaining. Just explaining why that's more an endurance feat and not a durability one.

That's also another aspect Zoro has over Sanji. We've seen Sanji being put in tight situations because he has to use his legs for attack and defense. Zoro doesn't have the problem and he has AoE and range.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Sep 27, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Yo Wait you complain about Zoro using his swords as shields with the use of haki yet sanji is using a full on raid suit?


This makes it very obvious this is some kind of contest of which character is better for you since you see pointing out what happened as complaining. Of course sanji using a raid suit is what has boosted his durability. It would do the same for zoro, but zoro doesn't have one. That's just how it is.


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## Conxc (Sep 27, 2021)

The only thing Sanji has on Zoro is CoO and movement speed. Zoro beats him out in every other area. He’s outright stronger and happens to be a bad matchup. Case closed.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## DarkRasengan (Sep 27, 2021)

Conxc said:


> He does. Re-read Wano. There’s the SJ cover with him and Luffy holding swords across Kaido’s neck.
> 
> And I’m sorry, what? Sanji has better durability feats than Zoro? In what universe besides SanjiLand, which exists strictly in your head?


He doesn't i re-read wano, wano also has a cover with zoro and sanji on both sides of luffy whos in the middle, like most other covers.
Sanji has better durability with the raidsuit. Zoro has better endurance and his momentary hakai blocking feat was him blocking with enma. Sanji tanked kings dive bomb(an attack luffy of all people was worried about) with absolutely no damage.



Conxc said:


> The only thing Sanji has on Zoro is CoO and movement speed. Zoro beats him out in every other area. He’s outright stronger and happens to be a bad matchup. Case closed.


Actually sanji is a bad matchup for zoro, how is zoro going to hit sanji with invisibility and superior speed and CoO? Zoro is a bad matchup for people who like to tank damage like jack since he can carve through them with enma. Someone with speed and invisibility of all things is zoros bad matchup, wait till you see zoro vs  shiryuu
Case closed

Reactions: Agree 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Sep 27, 2021)

DarkRasengan said:


> Actually sanji is a bad matchup for zoro, how is zoro going to hit sanji with invisibility and superior speed and CoO? Zoro is a bad matchup for people who like to tank damage like jack since he can carve through them with enma. Someone with speed and invisibility of all things is zoros bad matchup, wait till you see zoro vs  shiryuu
> Case closed


zoro would still beat sanji. zoro was a bad match up for luffy because swords and luffy would still have beat him.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Sep 27, 2021)

Conxc said:


> The only thing Sanji has on Zoro is CoO and movement speed. Zoro beats him out in every other area. He’s outright stronger and happens to be a bad matchup. Case closed.


and mobility, agility, attack speed plus the Raid Suit benefits.


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## Oda Report (Sep 27, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> This makes it very obvious this is some kind of contest of which character is better for you since you see pointing out what happened as complaining. Of course sanji using a raid suit is what has boosted his durability. It would do the same for zoro, but zoro doesn't have one. That's just how it is.



I know Zoro doesn't need a raid suit, Sanji does, Zoro just needs to keep training up his own body and master those blades.




Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Again, endurance not durability. Zoro is fairly tanky but being shredded and spewing blood is more an example of high endurance. Durability is about resisting damage and taking hits with little injury.





Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Again, endurance. Zoro has better endurance than Sanji.
> 
> ....I wasn't complaining. Just explaining why that's more an endurance feat and not a durability one.
> 
> That's also another aspect Zoro has over Sanji. We've seen Sanji being put in tight situations because he has to use his legs for attack and defense. Zoro doesn't have the problem and he has AoE and range.



I see.
Well he is made of flesh after all. lol


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## Conxc (Sep 27, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> and mobility, agility, attack speed plus the Raid Suit benefits.


When you say attack speed are you referring to techs like Jet Gattling? Because that’s all you can talk about because Zoro blitzes.


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## Conxc (Sep 27, 2021)

Also I’m taking Zoro’s Haki defense over the RS any day.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Sep 27, 2021)

Conxc said:


> When you say attack speed are you referring to techs like Jet Gattling? Because that’s all you can talk about because Zoro blitzes.


Referring to Sanji who doesn't have jet attacks. Sanji can blitz as well though. He actually just blitzed Queen alongside Zoro blitzing King. Zoro is the fighter though so he will always get more chances to show off his combat power.

I say he has better attack speed because on average Sanji always lands more attacks than Zoro even when their fights have a similar length. I think the upcoming fights will reflect this as well with Sanji likely having a bunch of kicks land with Zoro only using a few slashes to win even though both fights will cover the same length of time.


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## Rcranium (Sep 28, 2021)

Zoro wins high diff. When Sanji gets his power up it will be an extreme diff fight in favor of Zoro.

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Lmao (Sep 28, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Forget about matchups and the overwhelming amount of feats/portrayal that Zoro has that favor him. They’re fighting back to back so that trumps all.


Funny you talk about overwhelming amount of feats and portrayal since Luffy has way more of those against Zoro than Zoro has against Sanji.

Yet here you are using this exact logic to undermine Sanji, who's about to receive a big power up. Only in Two Piece Sanji/Zoro aren't close to each other, it's truly baffling you would argue against this.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Strobacaxi (Sep 28, 2021)

Lmao said:


> Funny you talk about overwhelming amount of feats and portrayal since Luffy has way more of those against Zoro than Zoro has against Sanji.


Portrayal:
Zoro and Luffy were the first to meet, met the first Officer together, have similar reasons to be mad at Kaido's forces (Oshiraku)
Zoro and Luffy both were the first to make trouble in Wano
Zoro and Luffy both were the first to make trouble in Onigashima
Zoro and Luffy both were attacked by Apoo
Zoro and Luffy both were being told to spare their energy because they had to fight Kaido
Zoro and Luffy both went to the Rooftop
Zoro and Luffy both damaged Kaido seriously
Zoro and Luffy both used aCoC on Kaido

Feats:
Luffy and Zoro the only ones to damage Kaido
Zoro made Kaido dodge like Luffy
Zoro cut Kaido's scales, Luffy "broke" them
Zoro temporarily stopped an attack that was going to kill Luffy


Don't fucking compare Zoro-Luffy to Zoro-Sanji in portrayal or feats lol

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Lmao (Sep 28, 2021)

Only Zoro fans would argue Sanji and their favorite character don't have similar portrayal after 1000 chapters of reading One Piece

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Mercurial (Sep 28, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Portrayal:
> Zoro and Luffy were the first to meet, met the first Officer together, have similar reasons to be mad at Kaido's forces (Oshiraku)
> Zoro and Luffy both were the first to make trouble in Wano
> Zoro and Luffy both were the first to make trouble in Onigashima
> ...


Also Rufy and Zoro's training before Onigashima was the only that Oda hyped. He even used a double spread of Rufy training Ryo and Zoro training Enma to end the second act.

Where was Sanji? Unrelevant.

Not to mention "powerful pirates leading the new generation". Kidd thanking Zoro for saving everyone from Hakai. Law being astonished as Zoro scars Kaido. Chapter 1010 with Haoshoku for Zoro and Advanced Haoshoku for Rufy.

Where was Sanji? Unrelevant, again. 

Not to mention Sanji being stomped by Zoro's opponent and Zoro intimidating and ignoring Sanji's opponent.

I mean... come on, let's be real.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## DarkRasengan (Sep 28, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> zoro would still beat sanji. zoro was a bad match up for luffy because swords and luffy would still have beat him.


I agree he will still beat sanji, but with extreme diff


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## TheWiggian (Sep 28, 2021)

Zoro high diffs like always.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Strobacaxi (Sep 28, 2021)

Lmao said:


> Only Zoro fans would argue Sanji and their favorite character don't have similar portrayal after 1000 chapters of reading One Piece


They had it pre TS. Post TS they haven't had similar portrayal at all especially in Wano. Which is expected, Zoro trained with the WSS, Sanji ran from a bunch of fodders

Zoro vs Sanji went from Extreme diff Pre TS to High diff Post TS
Luffy vs Zoro went from High diff Pre TS to extreme diff Post TS, back to high diff with aCoC

Reactions: Winner 1


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## DarkRasengan (Sep 28, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Also Rufy and Zoro's training before Onigashima was the only that Oda hyped. He even used a double spread of Rufy training Ryo and Zoro training Enma to end the second act.
> 
> Where was Sanji? Unrelevant.
> 
> ...


Sanji never got stomped by zoros opponent, king used an big attack to try and kill sanji and sanji was completely fine after tanking it


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## Conxc (Sep 28, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> They had it pre TS. Post TS they haven't had similar portrayal at all especially in Wano. Which is expected, Zoro trained with the WSS, Sanji ran from a bunch of fodders
> 
> Zoro vs Sanji went from Extreme diff Pre TS to High diff Post TS
> Luffy vs Zoro went from High diff Pre TS to extreme diff Post TS, back to high diff with aCoC


IMO Foxfire makes it mid. What do you think about that interaction? Sanji’s strongest attacks are fire-based.


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## Strobacaxi (Sep 28, 2021)

Conxc said:


> IMO Foxfire makes it mid. What do you think about that interaction? Sanji’s strongest attacks are fire-based.


Meh not sure I honestly never really understood how fire makes Sanji's kicks stronger lol


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## GreenEggsAHam (Sep 28, 2021)

Oda literally called them the wings of the PK, there In a tag team

portrayal is clear, Zoro extreme diff, he's closer to Sanji then he is to luffy

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Mercurial (Sep 28, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Oda literally called them the wings of the PK, there In a tag team
> 
> portrayal is clear, Zoro extreme diff, he's closer to Sanji then he is to luffy


Lol

Like Ray and Gabban were the wings of Roger

But in the end of the day, Ray was the Dark King, while no one cares about Gabban.
In the end of the day, Ray and Roger calls each other as partner, while Gabban calls Roger as captain, just like the rest of the crew.

Roger > Rayleigh >> Gabban
Rufy > Zoro >> Sanji

Reactions: Like 1 | Neutral 1 | Optimistic 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Sep 28, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Lol
> 
> Like Ray and Gabban were the wings of Roger
> 
> ...


at the end of the day im talking about Zoro,Sanji not Ray and gabban stop making up headcannon the portayal is clear unless you're Zoro fan

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strobacaxi (Sep 28, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> at the end of the day im talking about Zoro,Sanji not Ray and gabban stop making up headcannon the portayal is clear unless you're Zoro fan


Yes, it's incredibly clear

One was in the rooftop fighting Yonkos, the other was captured by someone who got wrecked by Robin
One permanently scarred Kaido, the other can't seem to hurt Queen
One pushed back an admiral, the other was low diffed by DD
One was equally matching Denjiro while nerfed, a YC3 or better character, while the other was overpowered by P1 while wearing his power up suit
One is fighting the #2, the other is fighting the #3. And guess which one was just foreshadowed to get a new power up?

The portrayal is extremely clear

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Mercurial (Sep 28, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Yes, it's incredibly clear
> 
> One was in the rooftop fighting Yonkos, the other was captured by someone who got wrecked by Robin
> One permanently scarred Kaido, the other can't seem to hurt Queen
> ...


The answer will be something like: 

"Shut up, stop listing facts, manga facts don't count shit and if you don't agree with this then you are just a blind Zoro fanboy and Sanji hater"

Shit, how many leavers did Roof Piece destroy?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Conxc (Sep 28, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Yes, it's incredibly clear
> 
> One was in the rooftop fighting Yonkos, the other was captured by someone who got wrecked by Robin
> One permanently scarred Kaido, the other can't seem to hurt Queen
> ...


Sanji fans will just ignore all of this and say that Zoro and Sanji appeared back to back last chapter implying equality. Feats don’t matter to them. Same panel appearances do.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mercurial (Sep 28, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Sanji fans will just ignore all of this and say that Zoro and Sanji appeared back to back last chapter implying equality. Feats don’t matter to them. Same panel appearances do.


This.

But the funny thing is that Zoro appeared in a thousand panels together with Rufy (even 1 vs 1 fighting him equally, or being directed compared to him) but suddenly for them Zoro and Rufy the same logic is conveniently not applied anymore.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Conxc (Sep 28, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> This.
> 
> But the funny thing is that Zoro appeared in a thousand panels together with Rufy (even 1 vs 1 fighting him equally, or being directed compared to him) but suddenly for them Zoro and Rufy the same logic is conveniently not applied anymore.


Nah, those don’t count. Doesn’t fit their agenda.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## LordVinsmoke (Sep 28, 2021)

what answer does zoro have to invisibility or is Sanji Going to stand still and let Zoro Attack Him


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## TheRealSJ (Sep 28, 2021)

Anyone who says its less than a high diff fight, is creditless. At the same time anyone who says they are equal or even dares to say Sanji is stronger, is also creditless.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Conxc (Sep 28, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> what answer does zoro have to invisibility or is Sanji Going to stand still and let Zoro Attack Him


Uhhh, CoO? King, who has not been shown to have any standout CoO prowess was easily able to find him and break his invis.

The real question here is what does Sanji have to answer Foxfire style, Zoro's far superior CoA, Zoro's insane endurance/durability and ACoC?


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## Vivo Diez (Sep 28, 2021)

@Kinjin i hate you, why did you send me here

Reactions: GODA 1


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## A Optimistic (Sep 28, 2021)

King and queen are close in strength, they were introduced together and have nearly identical bounties 

therefore zoro and sanji are close in strength as well due to being paired up with them 

its as simple as that, they are the wings of the pirate king

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Vivo Diez (Sep 28, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> King and queen are close in strength, they were introduced together and have nearly identical bounties
> 
> therefore zoro and sanji are close in strength as well due to being paired up with them
> 
> its as simple as that, they are the wings of the pirate king


Oh wow, I didn't expect YOU to be the one with the sensible take

Reactions: Winner 1


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## A Optimistic (Sep 28, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Oh wow, I didn't expect YOU to be the one with the sensible take



i thought we were friends

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Vivo Diez (Sep 28, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> i thought we were friends


We are, but you also have one of the most Zoro-ish Zoro avatars and in FV, 9/10 times somebody with a Zoro avatar, it's going to be a Zoro galaxy brain take on any subject involving Marimo.

But of you I approve, you're going on my tolerable Zoro fans list

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## A Optimistic (Sep 28, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> We are, but you also have one of the most Zoro-ish Zoro avatars and in FV, 9/10 times somebody with a Zoro avatar, it's going to be a Zoro galaxy brain take on any subject involving Marimo.
> 
> But of you I approve, you're going on my tolerable Zoro fans list


 
thank you  

my straw hat tier list is Luffy > Yamato > zoro > sanji > jinbei 

and i no longer think zoro is a top tier anymore, hes struggling against king.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Useful 1


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## Vivo Diez (Sep 28, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Zoro oneshots.


DID YOU BAMBOOZLE ME

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Sep 28, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> DID YOU BAMBOOZLE ME



lmao that was a joke bro

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Vivo Diez (Sep 28, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> lmao that was a joke bro


Kin is trying to rev me up to attack you

Reactions: Funny 2


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## LordVinsmoke (Sep 28, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Uhhh, CoO? King, who has not been shown to have any standout CoO prowess was easily able to find him and break his invis.
> 
> The real question here is what does Sanji have to answer Foxfire style, Zoro's far superior CoA, Zoro's insane endurance/durability and ACoC?


And What CoO Feats Does Zoro have that Compare to King i Dont See how Zoro has better durability if your talking about his body
Fox Fire Style is Not Burning The Raidsuit


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## Kinjin (Sep 28, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Kin is trying to rev me up to attack you


  

I was looking forward to a good Sanji vs Zoro debate

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Vivo Diez (Sep 28, 2021)

Kinjin said:


> I was looking forward to a good Sanji vs Zoro debate


I pretty much agree with him, maybe we'd just disagree and how close the fight would be exactly.

But I'm not about to argue with these tier specialists:


Too old for this shit

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 2 | Informative 1


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## A Optimistic (Sep 28, 2021)

To be fair vivo, this thread was made before sanji vs queen started. I’m sure you can admit that sanji didn’t have the best portrayal pre-queen

I’m pretty sure if a new zoro vs sanji thread was made, the poll results would be different

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Luffy (Sep 28, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 2


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## DarkRasengan (Sep 28, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Uhhh, CoO? King, who has not been shown to have any standout CoO prowess was easily able to find him and break his invis.
> 
> The real question here is what does Sanji have to answer Foxfire style, Zoro's far superior CoA, Zoro's insane endurance/durability and ACoC?


King didnt find him at all, he kicked at momo, sanji blocked it, then king grabbed him because he was touching him

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vivo Diez (Sep 28, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> To be fair vivo, this thread was made before sanji vs queen started. I’m sure you can admit that sanji didn’t have the best portrayal pre-queen
> 
> I’m pretty sure if a new zoro vs sanji thread was made, the poll results would be different


Let's test out that theory in a few months, shall we   ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Conxc (Sep 28, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> And What CoO Feats Does Zoro have that Compare to King i Dont See how Zoro has better durability if your talking about his body
> Fox Fire Style is Not Burning The Raidsuit


Again, King doesn't have any standout CoO feats and was able to find him. Basic CoO helps the user to sense danger. Zoro should be able to sense when Sanji attacks him. The existence of CoO nerfs invis. 

When Sanji fought P1 he still felt the damage through the RS. Zoro will destroy the RS and beat Sanji well before his body is at it's limit.

Zoro hasn't shown the ability to generate fire vis Foxfire, so I could only be talking about the ability to cut fire. Sanji's strongest attacks are fire based.


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## Conxc (Sep 28, 2021)

DarkRasengan said:


> King didnt find him at all, he kicked at momo, sanji blocked it, then king grabbed him because he was touching him


Looking at it again, that does appear to be what happened. You're right.

CoO at it's basic appliance is to sense when the user is in danger and from where. Zoro will sense when Sanji is attacking him. I also want to point out that Sanji is only invisible to the eye. His presence doesn't vanish. I don't see why Zoro couldn't use his other senses to find him like, idk, hearing?


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## DarkRasengan (Sep 28, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Looking at it again, that does appear to be what happened. You're right.
> 
> CoO at it's basic appliance is to sense when the user is in danger and from where. Zoro will sense when Sanji is attacking him. I also want to point out that Sanji is only invisible to the eye. His presence doesn't vanish. I don't see why Zoro couldn't use his other senses to find him like, idk, hearing?


Zoro hasnt shown the ability to use those senses to find people, and zoro hasnt shown the CoO feats to be able to sense where sanji is if hes invisible and moving around at high speeds, were just giving zoro abilities out of nowhere here. Sanji isnt gonna be standing around waiting for zoro to sniff where hes at. Invisibility and his speed is gonna be a big problem for zoro


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## Conxc (Sep 28, 2021)

DarkRasengan said:


> Zoro hasnt shown the ability to use those senses to find people, and zoro hasnt shown the CoO feats to be able to sense where sanji is if hes invisible and moving around at high speeds, were just giving zoro abilities out of nowhere here. Sanji isnt gonna be standing around waiting for zoro to sniff where hes at. Invisibility and his speed is gonna be a big problem for zoro


For starters, I said that Zoro would be able to sense the incoming danger, as he has against the bat smile that tried to kills Tsuru and again when he first met Kawamatsu. CoO by definition:  _is a form of  that grants the user a sixth sense that allows them to sense the presence, strength, and emotions of others, as well as gain limited precognitive abilities._

This is the basis on CoO, being able to sense a presence is standard. Doesn't matter if the target is invisible or not, sight isn't relevant to CoO (see Fujitora). And like I said, Zoro can still use his other senses to counter this in addition to CoO.


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## DarkRasengan (Sep 28, 2021)

Conxc said:


> For starters, I said that Zoro would be able to sense the incoming danger, as he has against the bat smile that tried to kills Tsuru and again when he first met Kawamatsu. CoO by definition:  _is a form of  that grants the user a sixth sense that allows them to sense the presence, strength, and emotions of others, as well as gain limited precognitive abilities._
> 
> This is the basis on CoO, being able to sense a presence is standard. Doesn't matter if the target is invisible or not, sight isn't relevant to CoO (see Fujitora). And like I said, Zoro can still use his other senses to counter this in addition to CoO.


No he cant, king and queen couldnt sense sanjis presence and they possess coo, you cant use your hearing or smell to sense someone whos pummeling you with attacks  you dont have the time or the luxury and zoro hasnt shown the CoO feats to be able to react to sanji at all when hes invisible. Hawkins and drake couldnt even sense him. Again, we cant give zoro the benifit of the doubt that he can use his high speed smell to predict that sanji is gonna kick him from a certain angle at a certain time, if he had future sight that would be believable but he doesnt
Zoros only options are tank a hit and then counterattack like what sanji did to jyabura, and we dont know that sanji couldnt dodge that attack. Or use AoE attacks and with sanjis mobility and RS durability, they wont do much.


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## Conxc (Sep 28, 2021)

DarkRasengan said:


> No he cant, king and queen couldnt sense sanjis presence and they possess coo, you cant use your hearing or smell to sense someone whos pummeling you with attacks  you dont have the time or the luxury and zoro hasnt shown the CoO feats to be able to react to sanji at all when hes invisible. Hawkins and drake couldnt even sense him. Again, we cant give zoro the benifit of the doubt that he can use his high speed smell to predict that sanji is gonna kick him from a certain angle at a certain time, if he had future sight that would be believable but he doesnt


What? Sanji was invis in their presence for a panel before King attacked him. To say that they _couldn't _is a little presumptuous. As you pointed out before, King used the location of Momo to find Sanji. That doesn't mean that he wouldn't have been able to find him with CoO. On FI, Luffy, Zoro and Sanji were all able to sense Caribou's presence even though he was nowhere near them. I literally posted the definition of CoO for you and you're still having trouble with this.

Hawkins and Drake weren't actively looking for an invisible man either. Another disingenuous example.

Zoro's reactions are great enough to react and his CoO is good enough to sense where the danger is coming from. Also Sanji's risks his neck every time he goes in for an attack, seeing how Zoro will be able to tank and that's a perfect opportunity to return fire.


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## DarkRasengan (Sep 28, 2021)

Conxc said:


> What? Sanji was invis in their presence for a panel before King attacked him. To say that they _couldn't _is a little presumptuous. As you pointed out before, King used the location of Momo to find Sanji. That doesn't mean that he wouldn't have been able to find him with CoO. On FI, Luffy, Zoro and Sanji were all able to sense Caribou's presence even though he was nowhere near them. I literally posted the definition of CoO for you and you're still having trouble with this.
> 
> Hawkins and Drake weren't actively looking for an invisible man either. Another disingenuous example.
> 
> Zoro's reactions are great enough to react and his CoO is good enough to sense where the danger is coming from. Also Sanji's risks his neck every time he goes in for an attack, seeing how Zoro will be able to tank and that's a perfect opportunity to return fire.


Saying zoro could sense him is presumptuous, zoros CoO feats arent good enough to know where sanji would be comming from before sanji hits him, weve seen base sanji blitz oven soo fast that he didnt even know what happened, how is zoro gonna sense something at that speed quick enough to react to it without futuresight, we also dont know if zoro can tank a RS sanji attack unphased as he got pretty messed up by a nerfed killers scythe to the shoulder


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## LordVinsmoke (Sep 28, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Again, King doesn't have any standout CoO feats and was able to find him. Basic CoO helps the user to sense danger. Zoro should be able to sense when Sanji attacks him. The existence of CoO nerfs invis.
> 
> When Sanji fought P1 he still felt the damage through the RS. Zoro will destroy the RS and beat Sanji well before his body is at it's limit.
> 
> Zoro hasn't shown the ability to generate fire vis Foxfire, so I could only be talking about the ability to cut fire. Sanji's strongest attacks are fire based.


Did Oven know that Sanji Attacked him in wci and he has CoO  the Raidsuit hasnt even been damaged even when king attacked it so i doubt zoro can destroy the raidsuit


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## Conxc (Sep 28, 2021)

DarkRasengan said:


> Saying zoro could sense him is presumptuous, zoros CoO feats arent good enough to know where sanji would be comming from before sanji hits him, weve seen base sanji blitz oven soo fast that he didnt even know what happened, how is zoro gonna sense something at that speed quick enough to react to it without futuresight, we also dont know if zoro can tank a RS sanji attack unphased as he got pretty messed up by a nerfed killers scythe to the shoulder


Saying Zoro could sense him would literally be folloiwng the base definition of CoO, which he has. Will he know *exactly *where Sanji would be coming from *every *time? No, but that's what his other senses would be for. Invisibility doesn't = invincibility. Oven ain't Zoro. Please stop, and if you're bringing up Oven, then you realize how little that attack actually did to him? 

Zoro no-sold an Indra and was able to continue fighting after taking having all of his bones broken by a combined Yonkou attack. Was still able to survive a Bagua in that state also. Whatever he doesn't block, he can tank.


GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> Did Oven know that Sanji Attacked him in wci and he has CoO  the Raidsuit hasnt even been damaged even when king attacked it so i doubt zoro can destroy the raidsuit


Oven wasn't expecting to be attacked there by anyone... This is a straight up 1v1 scenario here. King literally attacked him once. The suit can withstand one attack, but in that situation as well as against P1, Sanji still felt damage through the suit.


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## Jin22 (Sep 28, 2021)

Mid to high goes to Zoro.  Don't understand this facination pitting these 2 against one another


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## LordVinsmoke (Sep 28, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Saying Zoro could sense him would literally be folloiwng the base definition of CoO, which he has. Will he know *exactly *where Sanji would be coming from *every *time? No, but that's what his other senses would be for. Invisibility doesn't = invincibility. Oven ain't Zoro. Please stop, and if you're bringing up Oven, then you realize how little that attack actually did to him?
> 
> Zoro no-sold an Indra and was able to continue fighting after taking having all of his bones broken by a combined Yonkou attack. Was still able to survive a Bagua in that state also. Whatever he doesn't block, he can tank.
> 
> Oven wasn't expecting to be attacked there by anyone... This is a straight up 1v1 scenario here. King literally attacked him once. The suit can withstand one attack, but in that situation as well as against P1, Sanji still felt damage through the suit.


You still have not showed a single feat of Zoro CoO yet u claim it can Sense Sanji Oven CoO reaction speed couldnt react to Sanji Fire would need to cause Sanji internal damage for any injurys  Sanji also has Skywalk and what  anwser does zoro have to that


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## Lmao (Sep 28, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> thank you
> 
> my straw hat tier list is *Luffy > Yamato > zoro > sanji > jinbei*
> 
> and i no longer think zoro is a top tier anymore, hes struggling against king.


> Yamato above Zoro
> Zoro and Sanji close in strength
> Acknowledging the struggle vs King

This post is too good to be true coming from a diehard Zoro fan, surely Ava is baiting us

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Sep 28, 2021)

Lmao said:


> > Yamato above Zoro
> > Zoro and Sanji close in strength
> > Acknowledging the struggle vs King
> 
> This post is too good to be true coming from a diehard Zoro fan, surely Ava is baiting us



everyone thinks I’m crazy just because I believe in zkk

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Luffy (Sep 28, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> everyone thinks I’m crazy just because I believe in zkk


i told my real life friends who read one piece about zkk and now they look at me different

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Conxc (Sep 28, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> You still have not showed a single feat of Zoro CoO yet u claim it can Sense Sanji Oven CoO reaction speed couldnt react to Sanji *Fire would need to cause Sanji internal damage for any injurys*  Sanji also has Skywalk and what  anwser does zoro have to that


I already said with the bat smile that tried to kill Tsuru, when Kawamatsu attacked him when they first met, sensing Caribou on FI. I'm not going to waste *my *time looking for each panel for "Grandmaster Vinsmoke" to not accept them just because. I told you what the feats entailed, find the chapters yourself.

I have no idea what the bold means.

He can Skywalk all day, he has to come down to deal any damage. If he stays in the sky thwe entire fight he still doesn't win... Plus Zoro has... ranged slashes?


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## DarkRasengan (Sep 28, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Saying Zoro could sense him would literally be folloiwng the base definition of CoO, which he has. Will he know *exactly *where Sanji would be coming from *every *time? No, but that's what his other senses would be for. Invisibility doesn't = invincibility. Oven ain't Zoro. Please stop, and if you're bringing up Oven, then you realize how little that attack actually did to him?
> 
> Zoro no-sold an Indra and was able to continue fighting after taking having all of his bones broken by a combined Yonkou attack. Was still able to survive a Bagua in that state also. Whatever he doesn't block, he can tank.
> 
> Oven wasn't expecting to be attacked there by anyone... This is a straight up 1v1 scenario here. King literally attacked him once. The suit can withstand one attack, but in that situation as well as against P1, Sanji still felt damage through the suit.


Being able to sense him vs being able to sense where hes going to attack are completely different things, the latter is futuresight. Im not saying invisibility=invincibility i actually gave a scenario where zoro could counter his invisibility. Im not saying oven is zoro where are you getting that from? Im saying sanji attacks extremely fast. Sanji feels damage through the suit, but it doesn't actually injure him. The suit is super durable time and time again its durability is brought up.
Zoro couldnt tank a killer slash, he passed out shortly after 1 slash to the shoulder


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## Lmao (Sep 28, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> everyone thinks I’m crazy just because I believe in zkk


If you _actually _believe in the previous post then congrats you are the most sensible Zoro fan out there


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## A Optimistic (Sep 28, 2021)

Lmao said:


> If you _actually _believe in the previous post then congrats you are the most sensible Zoro fan out there



i do. You even saw my post in January predicating Yamato was going to the roof to knock her father over the head with a club

ive always had faith in big titty Oden’s strength and never really thought zoro was stronger than her

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lmao (Sep 28, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> i do. You even saw my post in January predicating Yamato was going to the roof to knock her father over the head with a club
> 
> ive always had faith in big titty Oden’s strength and never really thought zoro was stronger than her


Whenever I see you use the  emote I always assume you're memeing, I gotta admit that was a wild prediction - I'd have laughed at the notion of Yamato fighting Kaido 1v1 before it happened on panel.

Because of that prophetic shit you pulled off I'm now starting to believe ZKK might _actually _happen, damn it man!

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Conxc (Sep 28, 2021)

DarkRasengan said:


> Being able to sense him vs being able to sense where hes going to attack are completely different things, the latter is futuresight.


FS is being able to see *several seconds* into the future. That is indeed different. Here Zoro was able to defend at the same spot Kawamatsu threw his sword without having any eyes on him.


And here's something that I completely forgot even happened:


Usopp literally *just* awakened basic CoO. He had no eyes on Luffy, Law nor whatshername and could see their spirit. Invisibility doesn't erase presence.



DarkRasengan said:


> Im not saying invisibility=invincibility i actually gave a scenario where zoro could counter his invisibility. Im not saying oven is zoro where are you getting that from? Im saying sanji attacks extremely fast. Sanji feels damage through the , but it doesn't actually injure him. The  is super durable time and time again its durability is brought up.
> Zoro couldnt  a killer slash, he passed out shortly after 1 slash to the shoulder


And that's fine. That's why Zoro will actually have to try. He isn't going to be able to defend against *everything *that Sanji throws at him, but you have to understand that he will be able to tank most, react to most and it ewill take him many less clean hit to take Sanji out than for the opposite to happen. His speed is what would make this mid-diff, low high (Kaku diff) at best IMO. Zoro outclasses him in every other category but general speed, mobility and CoO.

EDIT: The fact thjathe still feels damage through the suit matters because he might not be able to endure as much as the suit's durability gives itself. I butchered that wording but I'm sure you get it.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Heart Over Blade (Sep 28, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> i do. You even saw my post in January predicating Yamato was going to the roof to knock her father over the head with a club
> 
> ive always had faith in big titty Oden’s strength and never really thought zoro was stronger than her


Most sensible Zoro fan indeed. Most Zoro fans are ok with Luffy being stronger than Zoro but not when it comes to Yamato being stronger than Zoro.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## DarkRasengan (Sep 28, 2021)

Conxc said:


> FS is being able to see *several seconds* into the future. That is indeed different. Here Zoro was able to defend at the same spot Kawamatsu threw his sword without having any eyes on him.
> 
> 
> And here's something that I completely forgot even happened:
> ...


That panel of usopp just awakening CoO means nothing, usopp could have much better CoO than zoro just by awakening it, hell zoro just awakened CoC and he used ACoC before even regular CoC. Usopps feats have nothing to do with zoros


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## ClannadFan (Sep 29, 2021)

I saw a post on reddit that said Zoro was the most untalented out of the fighters in the SH crew. Since Zoro's sole purpose in life is to train and become WSS, while Sanji just cooks and simps, and Luffy just eats. And Sanji is still relative to him and Luffy is stronger.

That's a TLDR version of the post, the original was funnier, but even as a Zoro fan I found that pretty funny lmao. Because technically that's true.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Oda Report (Sep 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> thank you
> 
> my straw hat tier list is Luffy > Yamato > zoro > sanji > jinbei
> 
> and i no longer think zoro is a top tier anymore, hes struggling against king.



That's not a negative for zoro that's a plus for king.


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## Conxc (Sep 29, 2021)

DarkRasengan said:


> That panel of usopp just awakening CoO means nothing, usopp could have much better CoO than zoro just by awakening it, hell zoro just awakened CoC and he used ACoC before even regular CoC. Usopps feats have nothing to do with zoros


*Sigh* that’s such a predictable cop-out. At least try and not be so…predictable.

So what advanced form of CoO is this? We know of the advanced CoO form, and it strictly has to do with…seeing the future. Zoro using ACoC the first time he used CoC can be identified. We *know *that that application is the advanced form. Here Usopp see their spirits literally misses the advanced version of the skill by a landslide, but lines up with the exact definition of what CoO is in the first place, which I have posted many times. What Usopp used was basic CoO.

Nice try though, and I think this is a good time to agree to disagree because your last response tells me that you have no intention on being impartial and looking at evidence provided to you.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## LordVinsmoke (Sep 29, 2021)

Conxc said:


> I already said with the bat smile that tried to kill Tsuru, when Kawamatsu attacked him when they first met, sensing Caribou on FI. I'm not going to waste *my *time looking for each panel for "Grandmaster Vinsmoke" to not accept them just because. I told you what the feats entailed, find the chapters yourself.
> 
> I have no idea what the bold means.
> 
> He can Skywalk all day, he has to come down to deal any damage. If he stays in the sky thwe entire fight he still doesn't win... Plus Zoro has... ranged slashes?


i *Never *asked for a panel  the bold means if Sanji uses the Raidsuit Fire isnt going to penetrate it


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## Conxc (Sep 29, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> i *Never *asked for a panel  the bold means if Sanji uses the Raidsuit Fire isnt going to penetrate it


When did I bring up fire? That's what I'm confused about. 

Also, I don't see why fire wouldn't work?


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## LordVinsmoke (Sep 29, 2021)

Conxc said:


> When did I bring up fire? That's what I'm confused about.
> 
> Also, I don't see why fire wouldn't work?


you Stated FireFox Style do you think Firefox style can burn through the raidsuit?


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## Conxc (Sep 29, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> you Stated FireFox Style do you think Firefox style can burn through the raidsuit?


I brought up Foxfire Style because Sanji's strongest attacks are fire-based and Zoro can now cut through fire.


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## LordVinsmoke (Sep 29, 2021)

Conxc said:


> I brought up Foxfire Style because Sanji's strongest attacks are fire-based and Zoro can now cut through fire.


alright but do you think Sanji fire based attacks would still be attacks after they are cut


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## Conxc (Sep 29, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> alright but do you think Sanji fire based attacks would still be attacks after they are cut


Of course they would, but they'd be reduced to regular kicks. DJ (for example) isn't DJ without the fire. Name his best attacks and they're all DJ variants.


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## LordVinsmoke (Sep 29, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Of course they would, but they'd be reduced to regular kicks. DJ (for example) isn't DJ without the fire. Name his best attacks and they're all DJ variants.


So what diffculty would Sanji give to Zoro since his dj attacks can be nullified


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## Lmao (Sep 29, 2021)

53 people believe Zoro can mid diff Sanji

Reactions: Like 2


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## Strobacaxi (Sep 29, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Of course they would, but they'd be reduced to regular kicks. DJ (for example) isn't DJ without the fire. Name his best attacks and they're all DJ variants.


Question is, can Zoro use his real power with Foxfire style? Or is it a style that allows to cut fire but has no actual power behind it? Because he still has to deal with the kick itself, and if it's just a half assed slash, that won't cut it.


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## Conxc (Sep 29, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> So what diffculty would Sanji give to Zoro since his dj attacks can be nullified


IMO mid diff is fair. Anything higher is generous and doesn't reflect feats/portrayal.


Strobacaxi said:


> Question is, can Zoro use his real power with Foxfire style? Or is it a style that allows to cut fire but has no actual power behind it? Because he still has to deal with the kick itself, and if it's just a half assed slash, that won't cut it.


I don't see why not. It's just a sword slash that can cut through fire. It's still the act of swinging the sword which correlates to his Phys strength and the other relevant base stats.


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Sep 29, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Question is, can Zoro use his real power with Foxfire style? Or is it a style that allows to cut fire but has no actual power behind it? Because he still has to deal with the kick itself, and if it's just a half assed slash, that won't cut it.





Conxc said:


> IMO mid diff is fair. Anything higher is generous and doesn't reflect feats/portrayal.
> 
> I don't see why not. It's just a sword slash that can cut through fire. It's still the act of swinging the sword which correlates to his Phys strength and the other relevant base stats.


It has power cuz he used the attack that cut the kraken's leg with flame slice, so he can most likely do flame slice: onigiri etc


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## A Optimistic (Sep 29, 2021)

Lmao said:


> 53 people believe Zoro can mid diff Sanji



The thread was made when Zoro was blocking Hakai and Sanji was screaming for Nico Robin to save him from Black Maria.

If a new thread was made, the poll would look different.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Oct 7, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 3


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## convict (Oct 7, 2021)

Friendly reminder to stay calm for now gents

Reactions: Funny 1 | Useful 1


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## Shanks (Oct 7, 2021)

@convict maybe close this thread for now. Getting dangerous in here.

Can move it to the telegram in a few hours.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## convict (Oct 10, 2021)

Unlocked


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## Amol (Oct 10, 2021)

Thread was locked?
Why?


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## Corax (Oct 10, 2021)

Nothing has changed to be fair. M3 dynamics will remain forever the same.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Eustathios (Oct 10, 2021)

Luffy very high-extreme diffs Zoro

Zoro high diffs Sanji

This is how I see it and I doubt it will change. Oda just gave Sanji a new powerup to keep up with the others' growth.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gokou08 (Oct 10, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Luffy very high-extreme diffs Zoro
> 
> Zoro high diffs Sanji
> 
> This is how I see it and I doubt it will change. Oda just gave Sanji a new powerup to keep up with the others' growth.


Zoro is closer to Sanji than he is to Luffy. 

Luffy high diffs him but because Zoro is a bad match-up for him.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Oct 10, 2021)

Nothing changes the difficulty zoro beats sanji at


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## TheRealSJ (Oct 10, 2021)

I know we are trying to do damage control in here to prevent toxicity but let's not act as if *nothing changed.

*

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Mylesime (Oct 10, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> I know we are trying to do damage control in here to prevent toxicity but let's not act as if *nothing changed.
> 
> *



I get what he's saying.
Luffy>Zoro>Sanji overall in OP.
It's just funny that many did not keep the same energy for years literally.....
One quick look at that poll.....



If we're talking about specifics, Sanji's biggest weakness just became his biggest strength.
But to be fair Oda is boosting their stats, filling out their skillsets, sign that they're reaching top tier status, for example Zoro just acquired a move that increases his mobility too, he learned how to cut fire, etc,etc.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Oct 11, 2021)

Zoro very high diffs due to having superior AP until Sanji shows more.

Reactions: Like 1


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## icyBankai (Oct 11, 2021)

One does not simply engage in a serious Zoro vs Sanji debate.

It's akin to

Coca Cola vs Pepsi
McDonalds vs Burger King
Nike vs Adidas
Britney Spears vs Christina Aguilera (for schoolboys during Y2K)

Reactions: Like 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Oct 11, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> I know we are trying to do damage control in here to prevent toxicity but let's not act as if *nothing changed.
> 
> *


Nothing has changed. When Luffy gets stronger we know the other two have. When zoro gets stronger we know the other two have. When sanji gets stronger the other two have. Sanji could do literally nothing the rest of the series but if we get proof that zoro equals Roger then sanji is equal to the yonko. Simple stuff.

Reactions: Like 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Mercurial (Nov 8, 2021)

An easy direct comparison against the same attack from the same character. 

Raid Suit Sanji felt so much Animal King's nameless charge attack that Rufy feared for him. Sanji was pathetically afraid of what was happening, and he was powerless.
He got stomped into the ground and got up only an entire chapter later (many things happened in the meantime). Sanji himself implies that he could barely tank the attack only because of the Raid Suit.
Sanji seems clueless about what happened after that he got hit: so either he was briefly knocked out, or he was hit so hard that he needed time to recover and get up.





The very same attack that stomped Raid Suit Sanji into the ground and needed him an entire chapter to recover and get up... Zoro can block without struggling more than needed. No, not only that, he can block that... while talking at the phone at the same time. Literally.




The gap is huge.
Zoro defeats Sanji with something between mid and high diff. More than mid diff, but absolutely nothing more than a solid decent high diff.
Zoro vs Sanji would go more or less like Zoro vs Kaku.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 6


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## DarkRasengan (Nov 8, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> An easy direct comparison against the same attack from the same character.
> 
> Raid Suit Sanji felt so much Animal King's nameless charge attack that Rufy feared for him. Sanji was pathetically afraid of what was happening, and he was powerless.
> He got stomped into the ground and got up only an entire chapter later (many things happened in the meantime). Sanji himself implies that he could barely tank the attack only because of the Raid Suit.
> ...


Sanji face tanked that attack with very little damage, also clashes earlier in an arc arent indicative to the strawhats actual strength based on pretty much every single arc


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## Mercurial (Nov 8, 2021)

Earlier in the arc? Wano started around chapter 910. Now we are around chapter 1030 and Sanji vs King was around chapter 990.

And "face tanked" must be the reason why he needed an entire chapter to recover and get up. And when he finally did that he was clueless about what happened, proof that he lost his senses or at least was hit pretty hard.

And Raid Suit enpowers Sanji massively from his usual self.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DarkRasengan (Nov 9, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Earlier in the arc? Wano started around chapter 910. Now we are around chapter 1030 and Sanji vs King was around chapter 990.
> 
> And "face tanked" must be the reason why he needed an entire chapter to recover and get up. And when he finally did that he was clueless about what happened, proof that he lost his senses or at least was hit pretty hard.
> 
> And Raid Suit enpowers Sanji massively from his usual self.


Yes it was earlier in the arc, as youve stated 40 chapters which is apparently massive because you think an entire chapter is a long time in one piece. Sanji had very little damage from that attack and the only reason he took the attack was because he was saving momo, remind you of anything?
Enma empowers zoro massively from his usual self and he doesnt have to save momo, whats your point?

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Freechoice (Nov 9, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> An easy direct comparison against the same attack from the same character.
> 
> Raid Suit Sanji felt so much Animal King's nameless charge attack that Rufy feared for him. Sanji was pathetically afraid of what was happening, and he was powerless.
> He got stomped into the ground and got up only an entire chapter later (many things happened in the meantime). Sanji himself implies that he could barely tank the attack only because of the Raid Suit.
> ...


You're such a tier specialist

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Mercurial (Nov 9, 2021)

Freechoice said:


> You're such a tier specialist


Deal with it bro.
Don't suffer that much.
The more the salt the more the butthurt, the more it will be painful.

Official account of the One Piece staff textually talks about 2nd Strongest Members which means First Mates/2nds in Command.




Raw text and literal translation:

明日11/8(月)発売の「#週刊少年ジャンプ」49号は『ONE PIECE』が巻頭カラー！
今回も制作過程動画が、尾田っちから届いたぞ！

今回は海賊団や革命軍の〝No.2〟が勢ぞろい!? ラフの変化にもご注目！
完成イラストは明日発売の「週刊少年ジャンプ」をチェックしてね！

"ONE PIECE" is the first color of "#Weekly Shonen Jump" No. 49, which will be released tomorrow on November 8th (Monday)! 
This time too, the production process video has arrived from Oda!

This time, the "No. 2" of the Pirates and the Revolutionary Army are lined up !? Also pay attention to the changes in the rough!
Check out "Weekly Shonen Jump" to be released tomorrow for the completed illustrations!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eustathios (Nov 9, 2021)

It's not going to be anything less than high diff. Zoro is the #2 and very close to Luffy (at least in my eyes), but Oda reestablished their portrayal as rivals by giving Sanji a powerup and having both face off against the Calamities (who are also very close to each other).

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Conxc (Nov 9, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> It's not going to be anything less than high diff. Zoro is the #2 and very close to Luffy (at least in my eyes), but Oda reestablished their portrayal as rivals by giving Sanji a powerup and having both face off against the Calamities (who are also very close to each other).


I really wanna know what evidence there is that King and Queen are that close besides just to push the Zoro and Sanji are close propaganda? King has massively outperformed Queen, who has been treated like a gag for some time now (Zoro casually cutting his weapon, Zoro not acknowledging him when heading to the rooftop despite him being right there, his bite attack doing 0 dmg to Luffy and Zoro).  The only things they have in common are that they’re both ancient Zoans, both Calamities and both have insane tackiness…but Jack has that in common with them too… King’s AP so far is far above Queen’s..if we’re being honest.

Not saying I disagree with you for now on Zoro vs Sanji, but once Zoro masters ACoC I don’t see how it’s any more than mid.


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## Eustathios (Nov 9, 2021)

Conxc said:


> I really wanna know what evidence there is that King and Queen are that close besides just to push the Zoro and Sanji are close propaganda?


Their bounties are pretty close. They always fight as a duo. Zoro mentions that they're both strong. Marco hypes them up as a duo. Their finisher against Marco was meant as a duo. They started wrecking the Live Floor side by side. The author doesn't have to spell out everything for us. That's why we have portryal in a story. .


Conxc said:


> King has massively outperformed Queen, who has been treated like a gag for some time now (Zoro casually cutting his weapon, Zoro not acknowledging him when heading to the rooftop despite him being right there, his bite attack doing 0 dmg to Luffy and Zoro).


That's not true. Queen has his gag moments but it's part of his character. People seem to conveniently forget that Zoro himself considered King _and_ Queen tough obstacles to get past, which is why Marco offered to take both of them on.


*Spoiler*: __ 











Conxc said:


> The only things they have in common are that they’re both ancient Zoans, both Calamities and both have insane tackiness…but Jack has that in common with them too… King’s AP so far is far above Queen’s..if we’re being honest.
> 
> Not saying I disagree with you for now on Zoro vs Sanji, but once Zoro masters ACoC I don’t see how it’s any more than mid.


Luffy, Zoro and Sanji will always be close to each other. If Zoro masters AdCoC Oda will inevitably give Sanji another powerup. That's how it's been for 1000+ chapters and how it will remain. Take this arc into account, Zoro pulled insane feats but he's still being paired up with Sanji who just received a boost. The story won't let someone pull ahead without the others catching up. Same case for Luffy and the other two.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 7


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## Conxc (Nov 9, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Their bounties are pretty close. They always fight as a duo. Zoro mentions that they're both strong. Marco hypes them up as a duo. Their finisher against Marco was meant as a duo. They started wrecking the Live Floor side by side. The author doesn't have to spell out everything for us. That's why we have portryal in a story. .


Bounty doesn't equate to power level. Them doing things together could also just emphasize their roles within the crew, They are both Calamities. They both are strong, Zoro's statement doesn't have to mean they're all that close for that to be true. He doesn't have to spell everything out, but that doesn't leave everything up to your imagination to start overcompensating... What have you *seen*? In your opinion, has Queen stacked up to King? Do you think that if Zoro were fighting Queen and got as many free hits, because Queen doesn't dodge, that he would survive, or *still *be unscathed up to this point?


Eustathios said:


> That's not true. Queen has his gag moments but it's part of his character. People seem to conveniently forget that Zoro himself considered King _and_ Queen tough obstacles to get past, which is why Marco offered to take both of them on.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


I mean, Luffy thought Ulti was tough as well. Toug enough to warrant G4. Characters can be tough and it just means that. Is Ulti comparable to Luffy?


Eustathios said:


> Luffy, Zoro and Sanji will always be close to each other. If Zoro masters AdCoC Oda will inevitably give Sanji another powerup. That's how it's been for 1000+ chapters and how it will remain. Take this arc into account, Zoro pulled insane feats but he's still being paired up with Sanji who just received a boost. The story won't let someone pull ahead without the others catching up. Same case for Luffy and the other two.


If that's what you think, I won't tell you that you're wrong. I think there's more evidence of Luffy and Zoro being in a league of their own as far as the crew goes come late game hence why Zoro has ACoC as Luffy does in the first place. Hence why Zoro was a SN along with Luffy and also fought Kaido along with Luffy and the rest. But Kaku and Jyabura amirite.

Reactions: Like 2


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## o0Shinthi0o (Nov 9, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> An easy direct comparison against the same attack from the same character.
> 
> Raid Suit Sanji felt so much Animal King's nameless charge attack that Rufy feared for him. Sanji was pathetically afraid of what was happening, and he was powerless.
> He got stomped into the ground and got up only an entire chapter later (many things happened in the meantime). Sanji himself implies that he could barely tank the attack only because of the Raid Suit.
> ...


Did Zoro blocked it in the sky like Sanji ? No.
Also , to me it looks like Zoro did not stop the attack , just deflected it .

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Eustathios (Nov 9, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Bounty doesn't equate to power level.


True, but when both are in the same crew it almost always does.


Conxc said:


> Them doing things together could also just emphasize their roles within the crew, They are both Calamities.


Jack is a Calamity too but he has nowhere near the same portrayal. Refer back to Marco/Jozu to see a similar dynamic.


Conxc said:


> They both are strong, Zoro's statement doesn't have to mean they're all that close for that to be true. He doesn't have to spell everything out, but that doesn't leave everything up to your imagination to start overcompensating... What have you *seen*? In your opinion, has Queen stacked up to King? Do you think that if Zoro were fighting Queen and got as many free hits, because Queen doesn't dodge, that he would survive, or *still *be unscathed up to this point?


In my view King is definitely the stronger one, but Queen would give him a tough fight. Jack is the one out of line there.


Conxc said:


> I mean, Luffy thought Ulti was tough as well. Toug enough to warrant G4. Characters can be tough and it just means that. Is Ulti comparable to Luffy?


In Zoro's case, he was shown side by side with King. Literally no better comparison. He would require significant effort to defeat. How I see it that's the author telling us, hey both these guys are the real deal and Zoro will have issues if he goes up against either of them. Enter Marco and solve the situation so that the main fight can come later.


Conxc said:


> If that's what you think, I won't tell you that you're wrong*. I think there's more evidence of Luffy and Zoro being in a league of their own as far as the crew goes come late game hence why Zoro has ACoC as Luffy does in the first place. Hence why Zoro was a SN along with Luffy and also fought Kaido along with Luffy and the rest*. But Kaku and Jyabura amirite.


If you told me this 15 chapters ago I would've agreed 100% with you. As I said, Sanji got back into the game. They were both the main stars when they made an entrance. I'm a Zoro fan myself and I don't see why this is a big deal when it's been the case for hundreds of chapters.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## Conxc (Nov 9, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> True, but when both are in the same crew it almost always does.


So Sanji is stronger currently? Usopp gaps Robin and Franky?


Eustathios said:


> Jack is a Calamity too but he has nowhere near the same portrayal. Refer back to Marco/Jozu to see a similar dynamic.


That's true.


Eustathios said:


> In my view King is definitely the stronger one, but Queen would give him a tough fight. Jack is the one out of line there.


IMO from what they've shown, it'd be tough because their resilience, but half the gimmicky offensive shit he does would do like, nothing to King.


Eustathios said:


> In Zoro's case, he was shown side by side with King. Literally no better comparison. He would require significant effort to defeat. How I see it that's the author telling us, hey both these guys are the real deal and Zoro will have issues if he goes up against either of them. Enter Marco and solve the situation so that the main fight can come later.


That was really in reference to him getting to the rooftop, but even still, as I said before, they can be strong. That doesn't automatically make them near equals. They are the strongest 2 obstacles under Kaido. Of course they'll be shown together.


Eustathios said:


> If you told me this 15 chapters ago I would've agreed 100% with you. As I said, Sanji got back into the game. They were both the main stars when they made an entrance. I'm a Zoro fan myself and I don't see why this is a big deal when it's been the case for hundreds of chapters.


Because Oda used all timeskip to widen that gap. Yes, he gave Sanji some powerups, but nothing having to do with training. He's kinda bottomed out on his potential while Luffy and Zoro will still be able to train and get stronger. They both still have powerups pending.


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## Eustathios (Nov 9, 2021)

Conxc said:


> So Sanji is stronger currently? Usopp gaps Robin and Franky?


Almost always. There are exceptions of course. 


Conxc said:


> That was really in reference to him getting to the rooftop, but even still, as I said before, they can be strong. That doesn't automatically make them near equals. They are the strongest 2 obstacles under Kaido. Of course they'll be shown together.


Yeah, it starts adding up when they get hyped or do everything side by side. Kaido has a very clearly defined 3 men elite group in the All-Stars, but only 2 of them are consistently portrayed alongside each other. After Zoro's words, it was Marco hyping up both of them:


*Spoiler*: __ 









Again the story staying consistent with neither being singled out above the other. We know that King is the stronger on because of his bounty and pairing with Zoro, but everything else points to Queen being his peer. 


Conxc said:


> Because Oda used all timeskip to widen that gap. Yes, he gave Sanji some powerups, but nothing having to do with training. He's kinda bottomed out on his potential while Luffy and Zoro will still be able to train and get stronger. They both still have powerups pending.


I don't quite understand, you think Sanji won't get any stronger until the EoS? To be clear I believe Zoro's gap with Luffy is smaller than his gap with Sanji, but to say the later isn't close to him is not in line with the way the SHs have been set up from the very beginning.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Conxc (Nov 9, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Almost always. There are exceptions of course.
> 
> Yeah, it starts adding up when they get hyped or do everything side by side. Kaido has a very clearly defined 3 men elite group in the All-Stars, but only 2 of them are consistently portrayed alongside each other. After Zoro's words, it was Marco hyping up both of them:


Jack is the youngest of the 3 and yes, the weakest. That still doesn't mean King and Queen are all that close.


Eustathios said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Everything but feats. The same side by side portrayal can simply be attributed to their standings in the crew. King has never been treated as a gimmick. Queen has. Marco also said foes over a billion, implying that if you took Queen out of the equation, Jack would still make the cut within the scope of his statement.


Eustathios said:


> I don't quite understand, you think Sanji won't get any stronger until the EoS? To be clear I believe Zoro's gap with Luffy is smaller than his gap with Sanji, but to say the later isn't close to him is not in line with the way the SHs have been set up from the very beginning.


I don't think he'll get much stronger, no. Reason being the nature of his latest power ups. They are helping him in areas that he could have trained to make stronger, if he weren't possibly nearing his cap. Oda chose to just hand him these stats after having him massively struggle in these particular areas all timeskip.

Also, to clarify, my feelings on Queen actually don't have much to do with Sanji. I think Sanji will mid-diff him. Queen is literally a gimmick fighter. It doesn't seem like he has the AP to really do much to Sanji anymore. All he can do is soak damage and once he can't do that anymore he's probably done. King is a different story.


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## oiety (Nov 9, 2021)

Conxc said:


> I don't think he'll get much stronger, no. Reason being the nature of his latest power ups. They are helping him in areas that he could have trained to make stronger, if he weren't possibly nearing his cap. Oda chose to just hand him these stats after having him massively struggle in these particular areas all timeskip.


Apart from this entire debate, you actually don't think Sanji will continue to significantly in strength throughout the rest of One Piece? Where do you see his power capping?


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## Conxc (Nov 9, 2021)

oiety said:


> Apart from this entire debate, you actually don't think Sanji will continue to significantly in strength throughout the rest of One Piece? Where do you see his power capping?


I think he will cap at around current Luffy level, mid-low high diff for a top tier 1v1. I think drastic powerups for him are done unless his body can be modified further. He can still learn ACoO, ACoA for the last push to that level. 

That's just IMO though. I could certainly be wrong. I just don't see why he should cap at Yonkou lvl like Luffy and Zoro will. Those two also have goals and portrayal that supports them getting that strong. If Sanji does, it will only be because the other two did.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## oiety (Nov 9, 2021)

Conxc said:


> I think he will cap at around current Luffy level, mid-low high diff for a top tier 1v1. I think drastic powerups for him are done unless his body can be modified further. He can still learn ACoO, ACoA for the last push to that level.
> 
> That's just IMO though. I could certainly be wrong. I just don't see why he should cap at Yonkou lvl like Luffy and Zoro will. Those two also have goals and portrayal that supports them getting that strong. If Sanji does, it will only be because the other two did.


How interesting.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jay. (Jan 15, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Can Sanji even kick through Zoro's swords + CoA defense/block threshold?
> 
> Or will he lose his legs in the process?
> 
> ...


wouldn't the zoro we all know and care about refuse to use his swords on martial artists without devil fruit powers?


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## TheWiggian (Jan 15, 2022)

Jay. said:


> wouldn't the zoro we all know and care about refuse to use his swords on martial artists without devil fruit powers?



Wow who made that chad post? He was very accurate in his prediction.


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## DarkRasengan (Jan 15, 2022)

Zoro extreme diff as always

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 3


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