# Dante and Vergil vs. Bayonetta and Jeanne



## Velocity (Apr 26, 2010)

*Battlefield:* Devil May Cry Agency.
*Distance:* Same room.
*Mindset:* IC
*Knowledge:* None.
*Weapons:* Every weapon they've ever used, including the Sparda.
*Exceptions:* Vergil powerscales directly proportionate to Dante's growth in strength between DMC3 and DMC4 (ie Vergil grows in strength as much as Dante did between DMC3 and DMC4).

*Scenario 1:* No Witch Time, no Devil Trigger.
*Scenario 2:* Everyone can only use their signature weapons.
*Scenario 3:* Anything goes.
*Scenario 4:* Dante and Vergil start and remain in Devil Trigger form.

Who wins?


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## Cypher0120 (Apr 26, 2010)

Didn't Kamiya state in an interview that Bayonetta would most likely beat Dante in a fight?

Therefore, through powerscaling, Jeanne should be able to beat Vergil as well.


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## Solon Solute (Apr 27, 2010)

Both Bayonetta & Jeanne are out of Vergil's league, and the two of them also consistently used Which Time, while In Character, throughout the game, on numerous occasions. Not to mention thier both roughly on par with Dante physically (If not a bit stronger), and could give him a decent run on their own.

My moneys on them.


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## Omnirix (Apr 27, 2010)

I say a who hit who first wins scenario. But Dante and Vergil shown better speed feats than Bayonetta.


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## Solon Solute (Apr 27, 2010)

Even if they are, Which Time would easily cancel out thier speed. That or they'd simply react.


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## Omnirix (Apr 27, 2010)

Solon Solute said:


> Even if they are, Which Time would easily cancel out thier speed. That or they'd simply react.



Dante had been calc to be around the double digit hypersonic area with his tower feat by Movement and of course Vergil is just as fast. I don't recall any feats significant that puts Bayonetta in hypersonic range. Witch time may do the trick but its really debatable whether or not she can activate witch time faster than Dante pulls out Bangel of Time or Quicksilver. I asked Endless Mike what happens if two powers such as these collide simultaneously, he replied it depends on the power of the caster but in a likely scenario they just cancel each other out.


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## Keollyn (Apr 27, 2010)

Her rain feat would easily make her mach 15.


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## Omnirix (Apr 27, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> Her rain feat would easily make her mach 15.



Trying to remember, is that when she fought Jeanne some place in china?
And how does it compare with Dante and Vergil's rain feat before powerup?


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## Solon Solute (Apr 27, 2010)

Omnirix said:


> Dante had been calc to be around the double digit hypersonic area with his tower feat by Movement and of course Vergil is just as fast. I don't recall any feats significant that puts Bayonetta in hypersonic range. Witch time may do the trick but its really debatable whether or not she can activate witch time faster than Dante pulls out Bangel of Time or Quicksilver. I asked Endless Mike what happens if two powers such as these collide simultaneously, he replied it depends on the power of the caster but in a likely scenario they just cancel each other out.



What they use and how they fight is largely based on thier mindsets. An In Character Dante's main fighting style and arsenal are with Ebony, Ivory and Rebellion. You also have to consider that both sides have 0 knowledge of eachother. Bayonetta was able to easily catch something that was well above base Hypersonic speeds (Mach 5). Reacting to Dante and Vergils speed wouldn't be a problem for either of them. Not to mention they were both able to completely destroy the Jubileus statue that was hurling towards Earth before it made contact, (Note: The planet is destroyed if not done in time, which suggests extremely fast traveling speeds).


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## noobthemusical (Apr 27, 2010)

How Big were the statues because just so you know 22mile wide meteors that are moving faster than lighting have failed to life wipe the earth, in real life.


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## Omnirix (Apr 27, 2010)

Solon Solute said:


> What they use and how they fight is largely based on thier mindsets. An In Character Dante's main fighting style and arsenal are Ebony, Ivory and Rebellion.


The OP stated that Dante can use every arsenal in his disposal. Is there a reason that we should judge Dante that he'll be limited to only 3 weapons when got just as much chance to use every other?



Solon Solute said:


> You also have to consider that both sides have 0 knowledge of eachother.


When did I never consider that?



Solon Solute said:


> Bayonetta was able to easily catch something that was well above base Hypersonic speeds (Mach 5). Reacting to Dante and Vergils speed wouldn't be a problem for either of them. Not to mention they were both able to completely destroy the Jubileus statue that was hurling towards Earth before it made contact,* (Note: The planet is destroyed if not done in time).*


You got me with the satellite feat. But Dante is still able to react to Mundus' lasers who blitzed him before. Nonetheless he's NOT FTL. And the bolded is hyperbole. How does Jeanne knows exactly how fast they're going? Sides, it also doesn't comply that Jeanne has to save Bayonetta from a missile while hours later they can survive FTL re-entry.


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## Solon Solute (Apr 27, 2010)

@ noobthemusical.

I'd say roughly the size of the Saviour from DMC4. But even ignoring that, Bayo's capable of following thier movements.


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## Ulti (Apr 27, 2010)

Vergil gets pwned.

While Dante would pwn Jeane alone and be able to tangle with Bayonetta alone he gets double teamed horribly


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## Solon Solute (Apr 27, 2010)

Omnirix said:


> The OP stated that Dante can use every arsenal in his disposal. Is there a reason that we should judge Dante that he'll be limited to only 3 weapons when got just as much chance to use every other?



I see where you coming from, but to what extent would an IC Dante use all of his weapons from every game, against two opponents that he doesn't know about? Giving him so many weapons makes it sort of hard to judge, especially since he's IC (For me, anyway).




> When did I never consider that?



I was thinking since Bayo, and Jeanne blend Witch Time in with thier combat, that they'd be the likeliest to use it against Dante and Vergil, and if that's the case would Dante know to use Quicksilver in order to cancel it out when he doesn't even understand the way Which Time works. Would an IC Dante with no knowledge immediatley attempt to cancel out it's affect, before he's attacked?




> You got me with the satellite feat. But Dante is still able to react to Mundus' lasers who blitzed him before. Nonetheless he's NOT FTL. And the bolded is hyperbole. How does Jeanne knows exactly how fast they're going? Sides, it also doesn't comply that Jeanne has to save Bayonetta from a missile while hours later they can survive FTL re-entry.



Lasers are faster than bullets, but there's no real way to tell how much faster. Just disregard all of that (I should've never even mentioned it to begin with). I consider the whole missile thing a minor plot inconsistency since both of them prior to that, were throwing the same missiles at eachother, and causing them to explode, point blank. Jeanne saving Bayo was just a way to make the player think she died as a good guy (Though she was weakend from her fight with Bayo, so idk).


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## Omnirix (Apr 27, 2010)

Ultimecia said:


> Vergil gets pwned.
> 
> While Dante would pwn Jeane alone and be able to tangle with Bayonetta alone he gets double teamed horribly



That logic doesn't really comply. Is like saying Goku can pwn Recome, and fight evenly with Ginyu. But Ginyu + Recome can double team Goku horribly.


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## Ulti (Apr 27, 2010)

Vergil can't really fight on par with Bayonetta, Jeanne and Dante (nowadays anyway)

But two opponents, one Dante would take handily and the other Dante would probably lose to. He gets double teamed.


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## Omnirix (Apr 27, 2010)

Solon Solute said:


> I see where you coming from, but to what extent would an IC Dante use all of his weapons from every game, against two opponents that he doesn't know about? Giving him so many weapons makes it sort of hard to judge, especially since he's IC (For me, anyway).


In case of a bloodlusted fight in a most likely scenario, he just chooses his most powerful or deadliest weapon that can finish off his opponents as fast as possible. Either Bangle of Time or Sparda Sword.
But what's IC again?  




Solon Solute said:


> I was thinking since Bayo, and Jeanne blend Witch Time in with thier combat, that they'd me the likeliest to use it against Dante and Vergil, and if that's the case would Dante know to use Quicksilver in order to cancel it out when he doesn't even understand the way Which Time works. Would an IC Dante with no knowledge immediatley attempt to cancel it out it's affect?


I merely stated Endless Mike's theory to CONSIDER the possibility in case Dante and Bayo use their time powers against each other at the same time. However Time-stop > time-slow. So theoratically bangel of time can cancel out witch-time. 





Solon Solute said:


> Lasers are faster than bullets, but there's no real way to tell how much faster. Just disregard all of that (I should've never even mentioned it to begin with). I consider the whole missile thing a minor plot inconsistency since both of them prior to that, were throwing the same missiles at eachother, and causing them to explode, point blank. *Jeanne saving Bayo was just a way to make the player think she died as a good guy (Though she was weakend from her fight with Bayo, so idk)*.


I am using the lasers as a basis that it blitzed post-DMC3 Dante who's double digits hypersonic but then he's able to react to them with Sparda's power. I am not convinced enough that Bayo can blitz a DMC3 Dante. And there's a bit of problem with your bolded. Because obviously Bayo punching Jubi to the sun was to make the player think she's strong and all. So we should accept that feat while deny another plot feat device? Its just wrong in my book 



Ultimecia said:


> Vergil can't really fight on par with Bayonetta, Jeanne and Dante (nowadays anyway)
> 
> But two opponents, one Dante would take handily and the other Dante would probably lose to. He gets double teamed.


Pretty much answered this above.


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## Solon Solute (Apr 27, 2010)

Omnirix said:


> In case of a bloodlusted fight in a most likely scenario, he just chooses his most powerful or deadliest weapon that can finish off his opponents as fast as possible. Either Bangle of Time or Sparda Sword.
> But what's IC again?



But no ones bloodlusted. In Character. 



> I merely stated Endless Mike's theory to CONSIDER the possibility in case Dante and Bayo use their time powers against each other at the same time. However Time-stop > time-slow. So theoratically bangel of time can cancel out witch-time.



I know. I was only addressing how slim the chances would be.




> I am using the lasers as a basis that it blitzed post-DMC3 Dante who's double digits hypersonic but then he's able to react to them with Sparda's power. I am not convinced enough that Bayo can blitz a DMC3 Dante. And there's a bit of problem with your bolded. Because obviously Bayo punching Jubi to the sun was to make the player think she's strong and all. So we should accept that feat while deny another plot feat device? Its just wrong in my book



I never suggested that Bayo would blitz Dante (Did I?). I was saying that she could react to his speed. Queen Sheba is suppse to be really strong. The plot device in this case could be written off as PIS.


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## Omnirix (Apr 27, 2010)

Solon Solute said:


> In Character.


In that case Dante lose in epic porportions. I never saw "IC" before even in the wiki. Just "PIS, CIS, Bloodlust". Or the OP can make it clearer in saying "in char"




Solon Solute said:


> I know. I was only addressing how slim the chances would be.


The chances are close to zero with in-char. 




Solon Solute said:


> I never suggested that Bayo would blitz Dante (Did I?). I was saying that she could react to his speed.


Sure but is she able to react to post-DMC1 Dante who gotten a lot faster as he can react to mundus' attacks that blitzed him horribly previously? Doesn't matter anyway, In char


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## Ulti (Apr 27, 2010)

oh in character vergil may be able to contribute

he doesn't screw around stylishly like Dante or Bayonetta


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## Omnirix (Apr 27, 2010)

Ultimecia said:


> oh in character vergil may be able to contribute
> 
> he doesn't screw around stylishly like Dante or Bayonetta



I dun think it'll matter much considering he'll be the one doing any real fighting with in-char .


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## Solon Solute (Apr 27, 2010)

Omnirix said:


> In that case Dante lose in epic porportions. I never saw "IC" before even in the wiki. Just "PIS, CIS, Bloodlust". Or the OP can make it clearer in saying "in char"




Well, I did spell In Character a few times in my earlier posts...


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## Omnirix (Apr 27, 2010)

Solon Solute said:


> Well, I did spell In Character a few times in my earlier posts...



Should we use DMC2 Dante then? Cuz he's pretty serious.


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## Champagne Supernova (Apr 27, 2010)

Didn't Kamiya say Bayonneta would beat Dante?

Anyway Bayonetta and Jeanne takes this easily.


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## Ulti (Apr 27, 2010)

Might as well say Dante and Vergil win for being far better characters


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## Velocity (Apr 27, 2010)

Well, since certain people seem to think the fight is too unfair, i'll update the OP with various scenarios and additional notes etc.


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## Ulti (Apr 27, 2010)

first two go to sparda bros
last two go to bayo and jeanne

although 4 may be a bit of a toss up


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## Koroshi (Apr 27, 2010)

Kamiya stated that Bayonetta beats Dante easily once.

Plus one of her Infernal Demons were stated to be able to crush mountains, might be hyperbole though.


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## Ulti (Apr 27, 2010)

yeah but I'm not sure if the statements cover restrictions such as the ones in this thread.

Plus statements can get outlandish at times.

Like Joss Whendon a few years ago saying buffy could beat spiderman (he worked on both at one point), that was insane. Though with her recent power up she could beat him.


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## Velocity (Apr 27, 2010)

Koroshi said:


> Kamiya stated that Bayonetta beats Dante easily once.



That statement was obvious. Kamiya *would* say that after he lost control over the DMC franchise and had to start from scratch. Bayonetta is his character now, not Dante, so he'd obviously say she was the better of the two just purely out of spite.


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## Omnirix (Apr 27, 2010)

Koroshi said:


> Kamiya stated that Bayonetta beats Dante easily once.
> 
> Plus one of her Infernal Demons were stated to be able to crush mountains, might be hyperbole though.



I dun't think author's statement should be used to determine outcomes.

And considering the scenario has changed.
1) Dante and Vergil
2) Dante and Vergil
3) Which sides hit first wins.
4) Dante and Vergil


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## Ulti (Apr 27, 2010)

It can. 

Unless the feats say otherwise or its WTF insane


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## Omnirix (Apr 27, 2010)

Ultimecia said:


> It can.
> 
> *Unless the feats say otherwise* or its WTF insane



Pretty much this. Just like Amaterasu is not ten times hotter than the sun.


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## Keollyn (Apr 27, 2010)

Omnirix said:


> Trying to remember, is that when she fought Jeanne some place in china?
> And how does it compare with Dante and Vergil's rain feat before powerup?



Dante's one would be attack speed, Bayo's one is movement speed.

And Bayo having Infernal Demons that can crush mountains would be an understatement.


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## Ulti (Apr 27, 2010)

each have their advantages and disadvantages in that case.

leaning towards combat speed being more useful, since it is combat


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## Keollyn (Apr 27, 2010)

And Bayo doesn't have combat speed? She regularly fights Jeanne afterall.


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## Ulti (Apr 27, 2010)

yes but in the speed department I would say Dante has a slight edge over Bayonetta.

It is a bit iffy.


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## Keollyn (Apr 27, 2010)

I don't really see this edge. 

Unless there's something in DMC4, I haven't seen anything that edges in either's favor here.


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## God (Apr 27, 2010)

Dante and Vergil are way too fast for Bayonetta or Jeanne. Speedblitz + Timefuck + Sparda DT/DDT = Rape.


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## Ulti (Apr 27, 2010)

Fair enough. I think it is safe to conclude speed isn't a problem for either


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## Omnirix (Apr 27, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> Dante's one would be attack speed while Bayonetta have movement speed


Not exactly. DMC3 Dante's feat with the tower surpass any movement speed Bayo had shown. Bayo may have the reaction to react to him with her satellite dropping reaction feat. But it may not be enough considering Dante had gotten much faster since then as he got blitzed numerous times in DMC1 but then he's able to keep up later on. And he's at the peak of his power at DMC2. 



Keollyn said:


> And Bayo having Infernal Demons that can crush mountains would be an understatement.


None of her demons except Queen Sheba have shown what it takes to crush mountain size objects. Large hill or large building size objects as best.


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## Tranquil Fury (Apr 27, 2010)

Vergil is allowed to be equal to DMC4 Dante? Eh, technically Nelo Angelo is comparable to DMC1 Dante and Nero is supposedly weaker than DMC3 Dante so it would'nt matter  since they'd be in the same tier barring Sparda Sword DT IMO.

Anyway IC Dante and Vergil like to compete and show off against their opponent when double teaming(See Arkham fight). They could very well work together as Sons of Sparda for a jackpot. Not sure how much that'd help here. 

Vergil would have:
-Yamato
-Beowulf
-Force Edge
-DT
-Phantom swords

Dante:
-Rebellion
-Ebony and Ivory
-DT
-Gauntlets of his own
-Nevan
-Cereberus
-Agni and Rudra

And tons more.



> None of her demons except Queen Sheba have shown what it takes to crush mountain size objects. Large hill or large building size objects as best



Mountain busting? That's outside of Vergil and Dante's limit, I like Vergil and all but mountain busting he can't handle and neither can Dante.


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## Ulti (Apr 27, 2010)

their stylish screwing around is actually pretty practical

it gets the job done


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## Tranquil Fury (Apr 27, 2010)

Well they did eject Arkham out of the Demon World in base forms. Heck you can't transform even in gameplay.


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## Ulti (Apr 27, 2010)

they used the doppelganger mechanic to create Vergil I think.

which annoyed me  2 dantes and Vergil would have cleaned house

also since when did bayonetta mountain bust?


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