# Why is Itachi considered a good guy?



## sunanogaara307 (Feb 1, 2013)

he mindraped and mentally tortured his brother twice and set him down a path of misery and hatred that will leave him psychologically broken at best, told him to murder his friends in cold blood and beat him so badly he fell into a coma. then forced said brother to murder him because apparently he cannot self terminate. 
despite all this, he acted surprised that sasuke's heart didnt suddenly go back to the way it was even though, sasuke was already a traitor and attempted murderer who took savage glee in his attacks on itachi and naruto. 

then he joined akatsuki and did basically nothing to even slow them down, aided them in the jinchuriki hunt and refused to pass any intel to konoha, which led to thousands of deaths. there needed not be only one masked man running around. joining these guys was unnecessary. and if he was sick you would think he'd spend his last days throwing everything he had at the last remaining akatsukis and take as many down as possible. or pull a kabuto and sell info to them. how can kabuto be more helpful to konoha than the guy actually loyal to them?

not to mention
- coldly staring blankly as kisame was about to mutilate a 12 year old boy and tried to capture naruto knowing he will be either killed or tormented by his superiors. 
- torturing kakashi for 72 hours then trying to order their attempted murders out of convenience
- planning to brainwash and enslave sasuke for the rest of his life to serve a village he despises against his will, knowing the vilage would either never accept it or just laugh and throw him in prison
- tried to send naruto to his own death in a hopeless fight with sasuke (he didnt know naruto would gain FRS, SM and control the kyuubi) because naruto "sees sasuke as a brother"
- mindraped and tormented naruto in a genjutsu which made him outright start to cry in terror and anguish
- ignored the fact that konoha has the right to judge and execute him by law if they want, just so sasuke can be his executioner instead. in a sense itachi ran from justice. if he cant even respect konoha and its laws about missing nins, how can he serve it? 
- spared orochimaru for no real reason, knowing who orochimaru was (sadistic child murderer and traitor) and knowing he will keep on hurting people.

i know your gonna say "but he wasnt really trying to capture naruto". ok. lets say itachi was intentionally failing. pain would know this and send someone else. oh wait thats exactly what he did. all members were to target naruto on sight. and he ended up just going to get him himself. itachi could have saved konoha from an entire invasion and thousands of deaths/industrial/economic damage by just getting one little boy when he had the chance. 

these acts...might raise a few eyebrows. and people still consider him a godly beacon of nobility? amazing.


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## Chibason (Feb 1, 2013)

Because he did what he did to protect the village of Konoha. He isn't your normal sort of 'good guy' either...even in a manga full of child killers and children who kill. 

He's just another dude in this story who meant well but went about it the wrong way.


...but, was a total badass while doing it.


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## Rios (Feb 1, 2013)

He is because the author said so. Logic be damned. Expect every character around him to kiss his feet and prize him to the skies in an attempt to erase the initial bad writing.

Oh well....


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## Revolution (Feb 1, 2013)

Logical Fallacy


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## BroKage (Feb 1, 2013)

Because his intentions were good and after he was revived he sacrificed himself to protect Konoha/his brother.

Kishi just wrote him poorly.


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## Revolution (Feb 1, 2013)

I just found the perfect answer for you



> _*"People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct or "true"? Merely vague concepts... their "reality" may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their own beliefs?" -Uchiha Itachi*_



Yes, this does justify rape and murder.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 1, 2013)

...I hope you're joking.


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## Rosi (Feb 1, 2013)

Because he is one of Kishi's faves.

But seriously, today's episode made me realise how fucked the whole situation and Itachi's "love" for Sasuke was. And I quite like him


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## Csdabest (Feb 1, 2013)

Itachi in todays society. 

Itachi: Hey little bro. I killed you entire ant farm
Sasuke: NO MY CLAN. I MEAN MY ANT FARM!!!!!!!

Sasuke: I dont like watching movies that I know the ending to
Commercial: Come watch the greatest movie of all time. In theaters now
Itachi: Comes back from the movie. Han solo dies and Princess leia has sex with luke skywalker. 
Sasuke: Noooooo!!!!!1
 *ten years later*
Random person: That never happened.
Sasuke: DAMN YOU BROTHER. I WILL HAVE REVENGE!!!!!!!

Siblings always mindrape and torture one another. especially the elder. Just the manga takes it up a notch


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## Charlotte (Feb 1, 2013)

To have him be “good” all along, just plays to the huge Itachi fanbase that seems to exist (based on the internet). 

It was a lot better thinking he was a psychopath that wanted and greed-ed nothing but power.

But still protecting a village that even discriminated your clan is kinda fucked up IMO.


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## Algol (Feb 1, 2013)

Rios said:


> He is because the author said so. Logic be damned. Expect every character around him to kiss his feet and prize him to the skies in an attempt to erase the initial bad writing.
> 
> Oh well....



correction: it was an attempt to erase the initial _*good*_ writing. the writing of itachi only got bad once kishi _tried_ to make him a good guy. initially, and right up to his death, he was actually a really great villain with solid evil and self-centered/self-preservation motivations coupled with latent, and in rare moments manifested, psychopathy

an example of how the writing of him went sour to try and convince and prove to the readers that itachi was a good guy all along, to cater to the strong fanbase of him and his brother that existed (not blaming them though, blaming kishi), is when obito says itachi joined akatsuki to protect konoha from the inside or whatever, and then ssince then kishi has presented absolutely _no_ evidence to that claim. we only saw the opposite.

plus, his whole time as an edo was just one big "look guys! itachi _is_ really a good guy all along, i told you so!"

long story short, OP: yeah it makes no sense. he's one of the most inconsistent and poorly written characters in this story, and i think he is in fact the worst offender of this. kishi's fault ofc


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## Yagami1211 (Feb 1, 2013)

Itachi is a good guy with a F in Good.

Itachi sucks at being the good guy. At least before he's Edo Tensei'd.



> correction: it was an attempt to erase the initial good writing. the writing of itachi only got bad once kishi tried to make him a good guy. initially, and right up to his death, he was actually a really great villain with solid evil and self-centered/self-preservation motivations





What ? Seriously there are plenty of clues even before his death that he was a good guy. A lof of people saw it coming miles away.

While Itachi was strong, I never saw him as a menacing villain like Orochimaru.


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## Chibason (Feb 1, 2013)

From one of the earliest chapters, during Sasuke's original speech about Itachi, he contemplates why his older brother had a tear in his eyes on the night he killed the clan...



 Kishi planned it, like it or not.


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## Rain (Feb 1, 2013)

Not like this thread hasn't been done to death and beyond.


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## Ghost (Feb 1, 2013)

How is any shinobi a good guy since all of them have killed people?


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## Algol (Feb 1, 2013)

Yagami1211 said:


> What ? Seriously there are plenty of clues even before his death that he was a good guy. A lof of people saw it coming miles away.
> 
> While Itachi was strong, I never saw him as a menacing villain like Orochimaru.



yeah my mistake, you missed what i meant. i'll edit it to clear it up. but yeah, i'm of course not saying kishi didn't plan it, not at all. i know kishi planned it, but i'm saying that his writing was _good_ before he revealed itachi was a good guy. and then at that point it got so convoluted as he tried to hammer it home (with 'tell' instead of 'show') and it turned out pretty bad


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## sssssss (Feb 1, 2013)

sunanogaara307 said:


> he joined akatsuki and *did basically nothing to even slow them down*, aided them in the jinchuriki hunt and *refused to pass any intel to konoha*, which led to thousands of deaths


How do you exactly know this? Was it specifically stated somewhere? Or don't you think we might get to know more about his actions in the guise of Akatsuki member one day? Especially considering most recent chapter?



> - coldly staring blankly as kisame was about to mutilate a 12 year old boy


You think up much, drawing unnecessary conjectures of what would be next. So what was so special about him staring coldly? He'd stop Kisame if the one would really go for it. See? I can do it too.
I singled out this specific point as an example of what's pure speculation is, there were several other ones here and there, I'm just not going to adress every. 



> - torturing kakashi for 72 hours


I never understood this part either, so fair play here. Maybe he has had something against Kakashi lol.



> - planning to brainwash and enslave sasuke for the rest of his life to serve *a village he despises* against his will


I beg your pardon, what? If anything he has always stated that he loves Konoha beyond belief. He even said to Sasuke that he's still "Leaf's Itachi" no matter how bad said village fucked up his life.



> tried to send naruto to his own death in a hopeless fight with sasuke (he didnt know naruto would gain FRS, SM and control the kyuubi) because naruto "sees sasuke as a brother"


Well, he believed in him lol. Everyone in this manga does believe in fucking Naruto. He might thought Naruto would romp through Sasuke with his TnJ.



> ignored the fact that *konoha has the right to judge and execute him by law if they want*, just so sasuke can be his executioner instead. in a sense itachi ran from justice. if he cant even respect konoha and its laws about missing nin


The mind boggles. You do understand you hit allmost Machiavellian level of casuistry there, right? 



> spared orochimaru for no real reason, knowing who orochimaru was (sadistic child murderer and traitor) and knowing he will keep on hurting people


Agree. This was his mistake. He could have a least presume that Oro might be after Sasuke one day, just like he was after Itachi's body. But who have ever said he was faultless? He's human after all.



> i know your gonna say "but he wasnt really trying to capture naruto". ok. lets say itachi was intentionally failing. pain would know this and send someone else. oh wait thats exactly what he did. all members were to target naruto on sight. and he ended up just going to get him himself. *itachi could have saved konoha from an entire invasion and thousands of deaths/industrial/economic damage by just getting one little boy* when he had the chance


Exept he understood very well who exactly was that little boy, and how the loss of most powerful bijuu ever would immidiately weaken Konoha; he only partly knew about Akatsuki goal (world domination), being unaware of their ultimate goal known as Moon's Eye Plan, but there was already enough for him to put obstacles in their way to the extent possible.
Needless to say, he wasn't able to know how exactly it all would turn out, that there will ever be Pain Invasion and Oro Invasion and what not. That's the main problem with most of arguments here... you reflect upon things from the position of more or less full knowledge, knowing all outcomes of decisions made in past but characters just don't have that privilege, they act at their own risk. You couldn't foresee every danger, unless you're a prophet. So you couldn't really blame their actions with the logic like that.


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## Humite Juubi (Feb 1, 2013)

For the same reason like roger the alien from american dad: people including kishi like him that much .


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## Addams (Feb 1, 2013)

He's totally not a good guy. He slaughtered his all damn clan and family.

Whatever the reason is, it's fucked up and only a sociopath could do that. Period.

Kishi can say whatever he wants.


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## gabzilla (Feb 1, 2013)

He's an anti villain at best.

And a very stupid one. "I'm gonna torture my brother and keep him in the dark, telling him to drink haterade and not encouraging friendship and teamwork in his mind, that will surely make him a hero of Konoha!"


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## Moku kage (Feb 1, 2013)

I must admit that i really don't understand this "he's a good guy" bullshit.

The dude killed his own freaking mother and father. You know, whatever the reason is there is some things you just don't do. 

When you read this manga you can't help but think sometimes that Kishi is kind of a weirdo.


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## shintebukuro (Feb 1, 2013)

Your only job when reading this manga is to suspend your disbelief, believe the author, and have fun.

If you don't want to do that, it's your funeral.


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## arokh (Feb 1, 2013)

Algol said:


> correction: it was an attempt to erase the initial _*good*_ writing. the writing of itachi only got bad once kishi _tried_ to make him a good guy. initially, and right up to his death, he was actually a really great villain with solid evil and self-centered/self-preservation motivations coupled with latent, and in rare moments manifested, psychopathy



Yet another who fail at reading manga. Itachi was a good guy from the start, there was literally tons of hints. If you want documentation check out one of the billion threads done on this. Also supported by the fact that half the fanbase guessed it from his introduction.



Moku kage said:


> The dude killed his own freaking mother and father. You know, whatever the reason is there is some things you just don't do.



The greater the sacrifice the greater the hero. He did it for the greater good, his parents even encouraged him to do it when it happened. Also, don't forget ninja are trained killers and kill their emotions to carry out missions for the village. Read Kakashi gaiden, he was trained to ditch his friend and succeed with the mission. Gaara killed tons of people for fun and he's a hero now.

Itachi killed 100 to save 1000. Would it really be better to do the opposite? His loyalty was to the village, not the clan, which makes sense. Uchiha was power hungry traitors all through history. They tried to use Itachi to betray the village which would cost innocent lives.


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## 青月光 (Feb 1, 2013)

No one is a good guy in this manga. They kill people left and right.

Everyone?s good and bad at the same time.

Good for trying to protect in their own way what?s important to them.

Bad for killing people who try to take away what?s dear to them for their own goals.

And then a cycle of hatred is created.


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## Moku kage (Feb 1, 2013)

arokh said:


> He did it for the greater good



Now, he did it for a poorly thought and written reason who could have been handled in a lot of other and better ways.

And it doesn't change the main point, he killed his own family. No hero her, just a psychopath.


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## Rage of Hate (Feb 1, 2013)

There is not a single good guy in naruto verse.


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## Bkprince33 (Feb 1, 2013)

He was a regular shinobi who attempted to correct everything on his own, thats the whole point of itachi's character and i dont see how anyone can miss that really.

His clan attempted to take over the village, itachi put the village needs before his clan, after all a whole village > one clan, he was put in a situation where no matter what he did people would view him as bad anyway.


he killed his clan to avert war, not everyone is naruto, its been pretty clear that only naruto possesed the power of TnJ and people often refer to that power as special.


interms of sasuke he wanted to keep the clan viewed as a noble clan, so instead of saying what they had planned he took all the blame himself, which is why even after sasuke found out, he still wanted everyone in konoha to still view the clan as noble and he wanted to stay the villain, its pretty clear he wanted the clan to be recreated but with the will of fire.



was it poorly written not really imo i feel it was a lil rushed if anything but majority of people seen it coming, kishi had to introduce new villains to the story and because of this i think he rushed the story a bit, but like a few people pointed out he was a good guy just went about it in the wrong way, and like nagato he hesitated to trust in other peoples strenght.


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## Rios (Feb 1, 2013)

Semantics. This is a shounen, which doesnt require that much thought process or overview on morality. The good and the bad sides are clearly defined, if they werent Itachi wouldnt be called a hero so many times, it'd be up to the reader's interpretation.


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## Bkprince33 (Feb 1, 2013)

Rios said:


> Semantics. This is a shounen, which doesnt require that much thought process or overview on morality. The good and the bad sides are clearly defined, if they werent Itachi wouldnt be called a hero so many times, it'd be up to the reader's interpretation.



i agree with your post although i dont think its because its shonen lol, wasnt deathnote a shonen? and they questioned morality alot.


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## Rios (Feb 1, 2013)

Death Note is the exception rather than the rule.


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## arokh (Feb 1, 2013)

Moku kage said:


> Now, he did it for a poorly thought and written reason who could have been handled in a lot of other and better ways.



Poorly written or not, his true intent was to protect the world.



> And it doesn't change the main point, he killed his own family. No hero her, just a psychopath.



Actually, his mum&dad were the psycopaths they wanted to wage war against their own village for power. I'm not sure if you fail to comprehend this or just choose to because you don't like the character because you are butthurt because he raped your fav char.


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## Bkprince33 (Feb 1, 2013)

Rios said:


> Death Note is the exception rather than the rule.



well said you may be right about that.


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## santanico (Feb 1, 2013)

He's a good guy, who did bad in order to protect thousands


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## batman22wins (Feb 1, 2013)

He not a good guy Itachi himself would tell you that.


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## narutoish (Feb 1, 2013)

sunanogaara307 said:


> he mindraped and mentally tortured his brother twice and set him down a path of misery and hatred that will leave him psychologically broken at best, told him to murder his friends in cold blood and beat him so badly he fell into a coma. then forced said brother to murder him because apparently he cannot self terminate.
> despite all this, he acted surprised that sasuke's heart didnt suddenly go back to the way it was even though, sasuke was already a traitor and attempted murderer who took savage glee in his attacks on itachi and naruto.



itachi's character is really deep and you have to think hard about it to understand his situation and his intentions. it wasn't just killing his parents and saving the village, itachi had multiple plans of his own that he was working on. as for the whole sasuke thing, he planned to make him stronger, so that he would grow up and kill him, and hence becoming a hero in for konoha, restoring the clans' name.



> then he joined akatsuki and did basically nothing to even slow them down, aided them in the jinchuriki hunt and refused to pass any intel to konoha, which led to thousands of deaths. there needed not be only one masked man running around. joining these guys was unnecessary. and if he was sick you would think he'd spend his last days throwing everything he had at the last remaining akatsukis and take as many down as possible. or pull a kabuto and sell info to them. how can kabuto be more helpful to konoha than the guy actually loyal to them?



actually is was itachi who slowed the akatsuki down, all the way until his death. he was the one who bought naruto enough time to grow and become strong before akatsuki came for him, but itachi had problems of his own. he was sick and he had to fight sasuke, but he did keep akatsuki away while he was alive.

i will reply to the rest later.


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## Divinstrosity (Feb 1, 2013)

"Itachi, you are so fucking perfect, dude." - Sasuke.


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## Jin-E (Feb 1, 2013)

arokh said:


> Itachi killed 100 to save 1000. Would it really be better to do the opposite? His loyalty was to the village, not the clan, which makes sen*se. Uchiha was power hungry traitors all through history*. They tried to use Itachi to betray the village which would cost innocent lives.



If that's true, then why did they reject Madara during Konoha's founding? Had he become Hokage, the clan would surely have much more influence. And yet, for the sake of peace, they compromised and served Konoha loyally for decades.


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## Revolution (Feb 1, 2013)

I kind of dropped the manga and gave away all my Naruto DVDs after I found out.  Somehow I was still curious, so when Itachi was Edo'd I thought I would get a resolve.  I hated the way Itachi treated Sasuke trying to manipulate him like property and tried to ditch him after all that happened.  Tried to get Naruto to kill him with the crow.  Itachi is sick in the head and the only reason I forgive him is because Sasuke has (also Itachi was TnJd by Sasuke during that Kabuto fight and admitted he was wrong, which a lot of people miss)


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## T-Bag (Feb 1, 2013)

he's a good guy willing to do bad things for the sake of his country


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## Wax Knight (Feb 1, 2013)

Moral debates are not easily resolved.
Like how some people argue about what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki to end World War II and stuff. You always find divergence in opinions. 
Just like I tried to convince a friend that dropping the atomic bombs were horrible and he refused to believe me, I can say the same about people not accepting what you said. It's only a matter of opinion that's all. people look at things from different corners//


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## arokh (Feb 1, 2013)

Bird of Paradise said:


> *Tried to get Naruto to kill him with the crow*.  Itachi is sick in the head



Say what? Another one who failed to read the manga. Itachi did NOT try to have Sasuke killed with the crow lol.


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## narutoish (Feb 1, 2013)

sunanogaara307 said:


> not to mention
> - coldly staring blankly as kisame was about to mutilate a 12 year old boy and tried to capture naruto knowing he will be either killed or tormented by his superiors.



seriously? he was an there to keep tabs on the akatsuki and for that he had to join the organization, which means following the orders as well. as for naruto, like i said before, he only lived to grow up because itachi kept the akatsuki away from konoha until he died.



> - torturing kakashi for 72 hours then trying to order their attempted murders out of convenience



again if you read the manga, you will find the answers. itachi was actually there to check on sasuke and warn danzo, the whole naruto thing was just an excuse. also itachi didn't want to capture any attention and kakashi wasn't backing down without a fight, so tsukuyomi was his only way to finish up the fight fast.



> - planning to brainwash and enslave sasuke for the rest of his life to serve a village he despises against his will, knowing the vilage would either never accept it or just laugh and throw him in prison



actually it was the last resort, i mean itachi had so much to plan and so little time to do it. the genjutsu in case that sasuke doesn't come back to konoha and instead tries to destroy it. he would rather have sasuke come back to konoha then destroying it, or die trying. the whole situation he was in was very complicated and he was just a boy at the time, its amazing that he din't lose his will anytime. 



> - tried to send naruto to his own death in a hopeless fight with sasuke (he didnt know naruto would gain FRS, SM and control the kyuubi) because naruto "sees sasuke as a brother"



actually i don't remember itachi encouraging naruto to fight sasuke, it was naruto who was obsessed with bringing him back.



> - mindraped and tormented naruto in a genjutsu which made him outright start to cry in terror and anguish



what?



> - ignored the fact that konoha has the right to judge and execute him by law if they want, just so sasuke can be his executioner instead. in a sense itachi ran from justice. if he cant even respect konoha and its laws about missing nins, how can he serve it?



 are you for real? he saved the village, lived like a criminal his whole life, just so konoha could be in peace, and you are saying that konoha had a right to excute him? give me a break now. 



> - spared orochimaru for no real reason, knowing who orochimaru was (sadistic child murderer and traitor) and knowing he will keep on hurting people.



last time i checked itachi did seal orochimaru, and sasuke was the one who brought him back.



> i know your gonna say "but he wasnt really trying to capture naruto". ok. lets say itachi was intentionally failing. pain would know this and send someone else. oh wait thats exactly what he did. all members were to target naruto on sight. and he ended up just going to get him himself. itachi could have saved konoha from an entire invasion and thousands of deaths/industrial/economic damage by just getting one little boy when he had the chance.



no matter what itachi did, you would be complaining. lets assume that he did capture naruto, then you would be like why did he capture naruto if he was on konoha's side. itachi kept akatsuki away until he died, and after that pein invaded, and as it turned out, itachi had given naruto enough time to become strong.

writing really long posts isn't my thing, but you were really misunderstanding the character.


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## αce (Feb 1, 2013)

Kishi says he's a good guy.
So he's a good guy.

Walls of text are pointless.


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## Voodoo chile (Feb 1, 2013)

Uchiha Sasuke:_ Itachi, you were perfect!_


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## Last Rose of Summer (Feb 1, 2013)

sunanogaara307 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Because Kishi is deranged?

He called the villains _anti-heroes_, so...


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## Rios (Feb 1, 2013)

That means nothing when the guy himself admits he fucked up.


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## Dr. White (Feb 1, 2013)

Because you don't have proper reading comprehension story and can't follow a story over numerous of chapters. Anyone with proper comprehension wouldn't have this problem, So i suggest reading Itachi's parts in the manga without a bias, and you'll get your answer.


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## Seiji (Feb 1, 2013)

If we use the excuse of "killing a lot'a people in cold blood" to justify Itachi NOT bein' a good guy, then might as well consider all the ninjas in the Narutoverse bad. Sometimes, y'all have to look past beyond what a character did and focus on the _reason_ behind his actions. That's what matters.

Kishi portrays him to be a good guy, like it or not. If you don't like that, then well shit. Drop the manga and stop complainin'.


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## Last Rose of Summer (Feb 1, 2013)

Nate River said:


> If we use the excuse of "killing a lot'a people in cold blood" to justify Itachi NOT bein' a good guy, then might as well consider all the ninjas in the Narutoverse bad. Sometimes, y'all have to look past beyond what a character did and focus on the _reason_ behind his actions. That's what matters.
> 
> Kishi portrays him to be a good guy, like it or not. If you don't like that, then well shit. Drop the manga and stop complainin'.



Even Danzo played with Itachi the card of "innocent child". So killing an innocent person is considered evil even in Narutoverse. Which Itachi did, not only during massacre, but later while in Akatsuki.

As for his reasons: it was to keep Konoha's hypocrisy in its best condition against his clan's "folly". Not so noble.


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## lolninja (Feb 1, 2013)

Everything you say is very, very true.

Itachi being good?

No, lol, Itachi bein' fucking shit dog.

His actions are cowardly and evil. Nuff said.


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## lolninja (Feb 1, 2013)

Oh come now, hard as it may be, I know you're capable of at least a LITTLE more than that!


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## Kusa (Feb 1, 2013)

Because he had a 'good' reason for a very bad action.Itachis reason for killing his parents was peace,something very great in most peoples eyes,but to some it's not great enough to kill the own parents yet to some it is.


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## Plague (Feb 1, 2013)

Take that anyway you want lol


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## Algol (Feb 1, 2013)

arokh said:


> Yet another who fail at reading manga. Itachi was a good guy from the start, there was literally tons of hints. If you want documentation check out one of the billion threads done on this. Also supported by the fact that half the fanbase guessed it from his introduction.



lol yeah no shit. that's not what i'm talking about. i'm saying the writing was good up until kishi went through with the revelation he was a good guy, because by then the things that were established already have been hard and heavy handed to fix. and he didn't fix them well, by not showing much evidence to support what he was trying to say to us

much like people here say tobi was well written until it was revealed to be obito due to some of the holes and inconsistencies that came with that, being a bit heavy handed in clearing up itself.

that said, i think kishi handled tobito, with the flashbacks covering some of the issues, way better than he handled itachi being a good guy by just having people say he was without showing any instances of slowing down akatsuki and helping konoha with that.

hell, kabuto gave konoha more intel on akatsuki than we ever saw itachi did. and no one would say kabuto was a good guy lol

which brings me back to the fact that if kishi wants me to truly believe itachi was an intelligent hero all this time before his death, fine, i know his intentions were good all along, but he sure did suck at being one. but hey, itachi admitted this during the kabuto fight, so im more cool with the writing of his character a bit now, yes.

...
and even if i didn't see the good guy thing coming (even though i did once he had that talk with naruto in the forest of course), still that doesnt mean i fail at reading the manga. i just would have been surprised... but i digress


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## batman22wins (Feb 1, 2013)

Plague said:


> Take that anyway you want lol


Naruto is a idiot who thinks everyone is good and Sasuke loves Itachi. Itachi himself called himself a failure and a bad person. You think those slain Uchia kids think he a good guy? Is this thread a joke? I guess Obito is a good guy too because he just wants peace. Smh


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## batman22wins (Feb 1, 2013)

Algol said:


> lol yeah no shit. that's not what i'm talking about. i'm saying the writing was good up until kishi went through with the revelation he was a good guy, because by then the things that were established already have been hard and heavy handed to fix. and he didn't fix them well, by not showing much evidence to support what he was trying to say to us
> 
> much like people here say tobi was well written until it was revealed to be obito due to some of the holes and inconsistencies that came with that, being a bit heavy handed in clearing up itself.
> 
> ...


Kishi never said Itachi was a good guy? Kishi just showed Itachi intentions and plans. I gurentee the Uchia dont think Itachi is a so called good guy. Naruto is a idiot who forgives everyone and Sasuke got mind rape so much time he doesn't know what the hell to think. Itachi himself called himself a failure.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 1, 2013)

Itachi is an Anti-Villain even as an Edo Tensei. He's never really morally good since his first and only response to villains and even his own family is MIND. RAPE. 

The difference about Itachi and other characters who have killed people in the manga? Itachi killed innocent people, both before and after his 'defection' and didn't even help stall Akatsuki at ALL with Obito clearly toying with him.


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## Revolution (Feb 1, 2013)

arokh said:


> Say what? Another one who failed to read the manga. Itachi did NOT try to have Sasuke killed with the crow lol.



Itachi was flat out telling Naruto "You are going to kill Sasuke after he attacks the leaf...maybe".  Thats what the crow was for.


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## Revolution (Feb 1, 2013)

Plague said:


> Take that anyway you want lol



I take it as Uchiha arn't considered part of the village (the first step to dehumanization)


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 1, 2013)

Bird of Paradise said:


> I take it as Uchiha arn't considered part of the village (the first step to dehumanization)


Wasn't the Uchiha themselves not consider themselves part of the village, which is why they felt no guilt in the attempted Coup D'tat?


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## egressmadara (Feb 1, 2013)

Itachi? I think he can be considered both a "good" and a "bad" guy, yet neither one can do him justice. He's an anti-hero and has both good and bad aspects (both of them are mixed in together quite well).


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## NW (Feb 1, 2013)

The way Kishi handled Itachi's character was horrible. He can barely be called a good guy for the shit he's done.



Bird of Paradise said:


> I just found the perfect answer for you
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, this does justify rape and murder.


How so? 



Addams said:


> He's totally not a good guy. He slaughtered his all damn clan and family.
> 
> Whatever the reason is, it's fucked up and only a sociopath could do that. Period.
> 
> Kishi can say whatever he wants.


So doing nothing to prevent a world war from breaking out is a better alternative?



Bird of Paradise said:


> Itachi was flat out telling Naruto "You are going to kill Sasuke after he attacks the leaf...maybe".  Thats what the crow was for.


No, he wanted to see if Naruto would kill Sasuke if he really had to, to which Naruto responded that he wouldn't. Itaco gave him Crowsui in order to brainwash Sauce into going back to Konoha, not to kill him.


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## Kusa (Feb 1, 2013)

Sasuke is just an hardcore Itachi fanboy,he puts every Itachi fanboy from Nf in the shadow.


Itachi fanboys you lack love for Itachi


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## blazingorientel (Feb 1, 2013)

It's ok that he mind raped his brother because sasuke sucks. That is why he is a good guy


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## Revolution (Feb 1, 2013)

T-Bag said:


> he's a good guy willing to do bad things for the sake of his country



Obviously his country is more important to him then his family or his brother's mental health.


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## arokh (Feb 1, 2013)

He mindraped him to make him strong, and then sacrificed himself in order to make Sasuke look like a damn hero while he died a villain when he really was not. Dat hero


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## Seraphiel (Feb 1, 2013)

gabzilla said:


> He's an anti villain at best.
> 
> And a very stupid one. "I'm gonna torture my brother and keep him in the dark, telling him to drink haterade and not encouraging friendship and teamwork in his mind, that will surely make him a hero of Konoha!"



Actually he is a type IV anti hero


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## Jυstin (Feb 1, 2013)

He's not the cut and dry White Knight Superman type of good guy. Ever seen Watchman? He's _somewhat_ like Veidt from Watchman. He's one of the superheroes (though he's perceived by the other heroes in the movie as the main antagonist) along with Doctor Manhattan, Rorschach and others.

The world is on the brink of a devastating world war, and Veidt destroys New York with a nuclear blast designed to look as though Doctor Manhattan caused it, killing millions and bringing the world to peace as the world bands together as a united force against the heroes, now seen as villains. It was a necessary sacrifice to save so many more lives than were lost. Rorschach was killed by Doctor Manhattan (who had then understood the truth of what Veidt had done and how it did bring about worldwide peace) because Rorschach was going to spill.


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## Talia00 (Feb 1, 2013)

He's not a good person.


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## Hossaim (Feb 1, 2013)

Naruto killed Kakuzu.

NARUTO IS A MURDERING PSHYCO


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## Deleted member 206107 (Feb 1, 2013)

Cos plot no jutsu.


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## gabzilla (Feb 1, 2013)

Seraphiel said:


> Actually he is a type IV anti hero



Pay Evil Unto Evil? _Itachi_?


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## crisler (Feb 1, 2013)

Is this guy stupid or is this a bait thread.

hope it's the latter cuz it'd be unfortunate to know such stupidity existed for real.

just read the manga. if you still don't know, read it again, and if you still don't know just quit the manga cuz u won't understand even if someone explain it to u


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## Dolohov27 (Feb 2, 2013)

He's not a hero, he's a failure and Danzo's pawn.


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## Ersa (Feb 2, 2013)

Itachi is a good person.

But it's more complex then that, he's a good person who is willing to commit evil to wipe out the greater evil so to speak. He killed innocents to spare more innocents. Is this right? That's really a matter of opinion.

His intentions were always good though his actions didn't reflect this, he killed the clan to prevent war, he mindraped Sasuke in order to make him stronger. His actions were questionable yes but it was not done out of malice. That's what makes him a interesting character and better then Kishi's usual one dimensional/generic character that does nothing for the plot. 

In the end, it's obvious Kishi wants us to see him as good and so good he is.


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## Not another narutard (Feb 2, 2013)

The idea of a "Silent hero" is good, but yeah... it's terribly written and yes, Itachi IS a jerk because, you see, Kishi didn't even want him to be a good guy at te beginning.

He killed innocent people, he fucked up his 8 yo brother's mind, he did everything wrong because at that time he was truly a bad guy, not the saint we know.

So yeah, at the end, he isn't a good guy, he's just a failure.


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## Revolution (Feb 2, 2013)

Rasant said:


> Itachi is a good person.
> 
> But it's more complex then that, he's a good person who is willing to commit evil to wipe out the greater evil so to speak. He killed innocents to spare more innocents. Is this right? That's really a matter of opinion.
> 
> ...



He mindraped Sasuke to make him a villain.  No one in their right mind would think that mindrape helps a person get stronger.  It only made him weaker through breaking ties with Konoha (even if he returned to Konoha, it would be to a JAIL for KILLING NARUTO)


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 2, 2013)

Rasant said:


> Itachi is a good person.
> 
> But it's more complex then that, he's a good person who is willing to commit evil to wipe out the greater evil so to speak. He killed innocents to spare more innocents. Is this right? That's really a matter of opinion.
> 
> ...


How is killing six Jinchuriki and giving Akatsuki the keys to the Jubi heroic or making him a good guy?


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## Silver Fang (Feb 2, 2013)

Well, *D. Gray-Man *taught me this. But in a war, the end justifies the means when fighting for survival. *D Gray-Man *has the exorcists as the good guys, but they're corrupt, take people from their families, and readily sacrifice comrades. But, the Noah want to destroy the human race entirely, so they do what works. 

_Cross Marian _being my favorite character from said manga, is a perfect example of this. He's killed/sacrificed tons of people. But, he seems to have a greater good goal that goal beyong the Exorcists and Noah, since he supports a hidden third sideof the war.

There is no good in a war. Because, everyone will do something moraly questionable to bad. And not becuse they are bad people, but because they see no other alternative, or that said alternative would be most effective. And it kinda boils down to the goal, in what makes a villain. 

What is the end result trying to be accomplished. Is it for a greater good, and to save as many peopl as you can, even at the expense of a few. Or, is it for your own good, gain, or bias. 

Itachi is  not 100% good, given some of his actions. BUT, he's not evil. He has good intentions, but regardess, is willing to go to extremes and sacrifice to accomplish a greater goal for his village's protection.


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## Ersa (Feb 2, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> How is killing six Jinchuriki and giving Akatsuki the keys to the Jubi heroic or making him a good guy?


Why don't you take that up with Kishi? 

He's the one dropping these signs that Itachi is a good person
-Naruto telling him he's done enough for the village
-Oonoki praising him (indirectly) as a hero
-Naruto thanking Itachi
-Tobi telling his story and how he wanted peace and whatnot

You can believe what you want but Kishi's implications are clear. And his word is law, you are free to believe otherwise whether he is good or bad. 

He was acting as a spy, he could've had to help 'kill' the Jinns. Their fates were sealed anyway. Itachi committed evil yes but it was done with good intent. You just casually forget how he helps Naruto & B after he comes back then goes to end Edo Tensei. At least he's trying to redeem himself for some of the evils he's done.

The actions he has committed are evil, but Itachi himself is a good person with questionable methods. 

At least he has more character then Naruto who has been turned into a steaming piece of dung ever since Part I finished.


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## T-Bag (Feb 2, 2013)

Bird of Paradise said:


> Obviously his country is more important to him then his family or his brother's mental health.



what u on about anyway?

u're sayin because he killed his family and tortured his brother he's a bad guy? well the truth is what he did was bad.. but so was the other choice. he'd have murdered other numerous innocent families for his sake. how would that have made him look, better? by killing his family which was guilty btw, he saved more lives anddd he saved his family's honor. the uchiha were going to start a world war...

casualties? still counting

itachi is the most selfless character in the whole manga. again he committed an evil deed, but the other choice was worse by far. itachi chose to look at his acts from a general perspective, and not from his perspective..which would have been selfish. it takes a true fucking hero down to the bone to kill his family for the sake of the world

respect the one, the king, and true savior of the manga. bow down and kiss the ring at his presence. "the last time you gona see a badguy like this again leme tell you" -scarface


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## Seraphiel (Feb 2, 2013)

gabzilla said:


> Pay Evil Unto Evil? _Itachi_?



Scroll down to the bigger explanation


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## arokh (Feb 2, 2013)

Rasant said:


> You can believe what you want but Kishi's implications are clear. And his word is law, you are free to believe otherwise whether he is good or bad.



This basically.

If anybody insist on seeing the manga through a real-world perspective they should do so with all the characters. Which basically makes the whole village of Konoha into an organized mafia of blood thirsty psycopaths responsible for war around the world, experiments on babies and murdering innocents.

As usual, threads like these are made of butthurt people who can't stand that Itachi both raped their fav character and is also a hero.

Let's not forget that it's manga fact that he is a hero and a good guy. Also according to the main character.


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## Last Rose of Summer (Feb 2, 2013)

arokh said:


> This basically.
> 
> If anybody insist on seeing the manga through a real-world perspective they should do so with all the characters. *Which basically makes the whole village of Konoha into an organized mafia of blood thirsty psycopaths responsible for war around the world, experiments on babies and murdering innocents.*



That's exactly what I think of Konoha. They staged the Second Shinobi World War that cost the lives of Nagato's parents among thousands of others. 

If only there was one, brave "hero" of Itachi's caliber in Konoha at that time then he would have slaughtered the whole Village for the sake of world peace and avoided the bloody world war that killed "millions of lives". Lives of the world inhabitants > lives in one Village, don't you agree? It's Itachi's logic.


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## emili (Feb 2, 2013)

Must we label him a good guy? A bad guy? Must we label him at all?


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## Rios (Feb 2, 2013)

emili said:


> Must we label him a good guy? A bad guy? Must we label him at all?



The author already said what he is, sounding like a hipster wont give you any points.


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## Emo_Princess (Feb 2, 2013)

Because everything he did was for the good of konoha,Sasuke and uchiha clan name but hes done a lot of bad too so thats what you call a anti-hero.


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## arokh (Feb 2, 2013)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> If only there was one, brave "hero" of Itachi's caliber in Konoha at that time then he would have slaughtered the whole Village for the sake of world peace and avoided the bloody world war that killed "millions of lives". Lives of the world inhabitants > lives in one Village, don't you agree? It's Itachi's logic.



Actually, taking out Konoha would probably destroy the balance and create more war. A better idea would be to slaughter absolutely all ninja, then normal people would finally have peace. No wizards flying around attacking them with chakra monsters.

Yes, this is an idiotic discussion. Whoever voted anything other than 1-star is butthurt.

"good" and "bad" ninja, geez...


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## emili (Feb 2, 2013)

Rios said:


> The author already said what he is, sounding like a hipster wont give you any points.



 Nay, sir, I am not trying to sound like one.

Itachi is a character who views good and bad by his own definition. Why can't we all accept that?

Here, I feel like throwing in his quote for you guys



> _People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" or "true"? Merely vague concepts ... their "reality" may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs? So tell me, what do you see with that Sharingan of yours?_



Same thing can be said for the term 'good' and 'bad'


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## gabzilla (Feb 2, 2013)

Seraphiel said:


> Scroll down to the bigger explanation



I know the trope, it doesn't fit Itachi at all. Are you saying Sasuke _deserved_ to be tortured at age 8?

In fact, how many bad guys has Itachi actually killed or punished? Orochimaru, the "evil" Uchiha clan and... coming up blank here. If anything, he did more for the bad guys that he ever did for the good guys.


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## -JT- (Feb 2, 2013)

Because Kishimoto decided to change direction halfway through Shippuden


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## Imagine (Feb 2, 2013)

Because he solos.


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## Last Rose of Summer (Feb 2, 2013)

arokh said:


> *Actually, taking out Konoha would probably destroy the balance and create more war. A better idea would be to slaughter absolutely all ninja, then normal people would finally have peace. No wizards flying around attacking them with chakra monsters.*
> 
> Yes, this is an idiotic discussion. Whoever voted anything other than 1-star is butthurt.
> 
> "good" and "bad" ninja, geez...



This is inevitable end you'll arrive at, when you will follow Itachi's way of thinking and choosing.


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## Kusa (Feb 2, 2013)

Bird of Paradise said:


> He mindraped Sasuke to make him a villain.  No one in their right mind would think that mindrape helps a person get stronger.  It only made him weaker through breaking ties with Konoha (even if he returned to Konoha, it would be to a JAIL for KILLING NARUTO)



Itachi wanted to make him physically stronger not mentally.
Itachis mind rape helped Sasuke to get stronger.If it wasn't for his mind rape,Sasuke wouldn't have left the village to go to Orochimaru and wouldn't have gotten so strong in such a short time.Itachi thought only with his second mind rape,Sasukes urge to get revenge on him would grow so fast that he would do everything to get stronger.In other words Itachi thought it was necessary to do this for his plan to make Sasuke a 'hero'.

I agree about the killing Naruto part.If Sasuke really killed Naruto then he would have never become hero,thats why I don't understand why he told him to kill his bff.


I disagree with people who say Itachis action was selfless.Sure,he killed the people he loved for peace,but he did it also for his  own conscience.He didn't want to live with the thought,that he didn't avoid innocent children dying.He prefered to live with the consience to have killed the own parents rather then many uninvolved ones.This isn't realy a 'selfless' act to me.He was still *more *selfless then many other characters though.


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## Intus Legere (Feb 2, 2013)

There is no reason to claim that Itachi is a bad guy. He definitely isn't, and that's because the author wanted him to be so. What you actually can about him is that he is a poorly written good guy, and that he is. Many of his actions make no sense at all and his goodness can't be seen as anything else but a _retcon_. It doesn't matter how many fans try to justify his actions in different manners, he is still incongrous as a character, and Kishimoto will still be the one to blame for this excuse for a hero.


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## Raiden (Feb 2, 2013)

Saved Konoha a lot of trouble and shinobi, I guess. But he's either a dark hero or anti villain. Certainly not just a hero. Action and intention determine where you fall, not just one.


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## arokh (Feb 2, 2013)

emili said:


> Itachi is a character who views good and bad by his own definition. Why can't we all accept that?



Well, sacrifice for the greater good is not just his view. If you can recall, Konoha killed off Hizashi to avoid war with the cloud. Pretty much the exact same thing in a smaller scale.


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## IDontHateYou (Feb 2, 2013)

Within the context of this manga, of course Itachi is a good guy. He's been called a Hero, time and time again. 

Like Itachi said himself in the Sasuke fight, good and bad is a matter of perception. So in that case, it really makes no sense to argue about perception. 

Personally I think Itachi is one of the Manga's most awesome characters. He epitomizes the word shinobi and what it means to be a true ninja.  He took blame for everything. He never sought out personal glorification. He did what he thought was right(doesn't mean he's perfect. He admits to making plenty of mistakes). However at the end of the day, someone who does what Itachi did, has to be considered a Hero, atleast to me anyway. For me what makes him a hero is that he never did anything for power. He never sought to dominate or control the war. All he did was deal with a very difficult situation, the best way he could have. Also, sure, he killed his parents but people here are acting like he enjoyed doing it. Do you have any idea what that did to him? He balled crying while he did it. If he was a psychopath, he would have enjoyed killing his parents. Big difference.


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## owarij (Feb 2, 2013)

People basically covered it already..
Itachi himself stated that good and bad, right and wrong is all a matter of perspective..

You also have to remember that these are ninjas, who do what ever the village says.. Order a ninja to kill a child and take his doujutsu? he will do it for his kage..ETC

Itachi is an antihero who was willing to not only get his hands dirty but shoulder all the blame for the situation... He is NOT PEERFECT.. this is explicitly clear.. He loved his brother very much..danzo used this to put him in a difficult situation.. Kill the clan and save your brother, or we kill the clan and your brother dies along with everyone else...  I don't see how in the world you can blame him for the massacre, or call him evil for doing it.. when he was a 13 year old kid who was being used and manipulated by the village elders...

He does NOT do unnecesary evil actions.. and he doesn't even like killing.. as we saw with Oro.. who was pretty much a threat to konoha, he didn't kill him but spared his life...  
You say he tortured kakashi for no reason? I see him giving kakashi JUST ENOUGH mental trauma to put him out of the fight but NOT kill him.... Considering they couldn't just up and leave, kakashi etc would follow them..there would have been a prolonged fight, and without a doubt someone or a few of them may have died had itachi/kisame really gotten serious in that fight.. He prevented that whole battle by simply knocking out kakashi in the fastest way he could...

Meh, not even going to talk much more.. It's obvious he failed in many aspects, but he always had good intentions..


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## narutoish (Feb 2, 2013)

owarij said:


> People basically covered it already..
> Itachi himself stated that good and bad, right and wrong is all a matter of perspective..
> 
> You also have to remember that these are ninjas, who do what ever the village says.. Order a ninja to kill a child and take his doujutsu? he will do it for his kage..ETC
> ...



this sums it up pretty nicely


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## Euraj (Feb 2, 2013)

It doesn't matter what you do. As long as it's to protect Konoha, you're a good guy.


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## Lelouch71 (Feb 2, 2013)

I don't consider him a good guy. He mindraped his own brother and turn him into a sociopath. He killed many innocent jinchuuriki which help Obito, Madara, and Nagato's plans.  Killed who knows how many people on Nagato's orders. While he may have been doing his duty, committing genocide let alone matricide and patricide is just inhumane and screwed up. Itachi is an anti-hero at best and anti-villain at worst. He's neither a hero nor a villain IMO.


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## Seiji (Feb 2, 2013)

Euraj said:


> It doesn't matter what you do. As long as it's to protect Konoha, you're a good guy.



This guy knows what's up.


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## Jυstin (Feb 2, 2013)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> This is inevitable end you'll arrive at, when you will follow Itachi's way of thinking and choosing.



Considering how many ninja lives were saved by his sacrifice, which were due to orders he was given (with the knowledge that the order would be taken out anyway, but without sparing Sasuke), I'd disagree.

You're thinking of Gara's old way of thinking, about living to kill everyone.


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## ovanz (Feb 2, 2013)

He killed uchihaha, isn't that good? considering 3 main villains are uchihahas.


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## Gibbs (Feb 3, 2013)

Because he never truly wished to capture Naruto, because he ended the Edo Tensei. Probably singlehandedly prevented many many needless deaths.


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## Dr. White (Feb 3, 2013)

Flow said:


> Your point doesn't stand. Do you want to know why?
> 
> He aided Akatsuki, killed innocent children in his clan, mind fucked his brothers, and aided in the capture of Jin.
> 
> Saying "I don't want to live on this planet anymore" and not posting a legit countrer response takes away your credit.



-You completely take shit out of context to try and prove your bias. For example:
-You completely ignore the fact that the only reason he aided Akatsuki was out of necessity on many levels. First off as consequence of preventing a War by slaughtering the Uchiha clan in secret for Konoha, Itachi was marked an S-Rank criminal. This means no country would accept him as he was placed in the Bingo Book, and entitled a missing nin. This isn't touching upon the fact that no village in their right mind would let a suppossed psychopath clan killer into their village borders. So alas Itachi was stranded as alone: but as we saw he tracked down Tobi and made a deal with him, showing he had been acquanted with him. By joining Akatsuki not only did he have somewhere to literally live, but he also got to A.) Carry out his plan with Sasuke, B.) Keep an eye on Konoha(both from the inside as an Akatsuki, and to make sure Danzo didn't touch Sasuke) so right there your contention that because he aided Akatsuki(*which btw he threw his mission in Konoha, and didn't participate in capturing Roshi, only Kisame did*. is shown to be inherently flawed.

-Your second point that he killed innocent children is true. He did in fact kill the non shown children of the uchiha clan. But once again you take it completely out of context. Itachi was a double agent for Konoha and the Uchiha, and then eventually Danzo gave him the big ultimatum: Kill your clan to save Konoha, or die with your clan, and smirk with the thought of Konoha's destruction as you die. Itachi in the end choose to do things on his terms, killing the clan for the "greater good" but also saving the person that he loved most: his younger brother. With the short straws Itachi had to chose from I say he pretty much chose the best decision. So just ignorantly throwing out "Itachi killed children" for shock value despite it being without the circumstance, isn't going to cut it as a legit premise buddy. Would it have been any more moral for Itachi to simply say My Family > Everyone and caused major damage to the village that he so call loved? Had Itachi fought in the Konoha civil war he would have gathered much more bodies than the Uchiha massacre night, and those people were inherently innocent just as well. The only problem is that Uchiha ware bron with the Curse of Hatred, it is like literally in their DNA.It is sad to say but those children essentially were murdered for the potent potential sins of their fathers. Konoha was risking a shit ton in A.) Trusting Itachi didn't turn on them in the end. B.) Trusting him as a missing nin with sensitive information on Konoha(for example his ability to pass Konoha's sensor barriers.) and C.) Trusting and respecting Itachi enough(it was blatant the Danzo respected Itachi as a ninja.) to allow his terms of Sasuke living.
This much showed in that only 3 Uchiha ever have been shown to overcome this: Izuna(even though he aided the clan by bolstering Madara.) Itachi, and Shisui. Sasuke has done alot of damage but nothing of what is to come shall he walk down the path of darkness. Which brings me onto your next flawed contention.

-Yes indeed Itachi did use Tsukuyomi on Sasuke 3 times in his life, but once again you are taking this out of context. The first time he did it was to show sasuke the death of their parents, while wicked Itachi needed to harden Sasuke to the reality of the harshness of life, and it was his plan to make Sasuke resent him, hence Itachi had to revert to grave measures. The Second time is pretty much a bolster of this: I have seen brother who love eachother to death fist fight eachother serious as hell. Itachi wasn't their to be the loving brother anymore(because of him saving Konoha he consequentially couldn't be there for Sasuke), due to the conditions Sasuke needed to get powerful, and overcome the hatred in his own way which Itachi predicted would be vengeance. If Itachi was truly not a good loving brother he would have fucking killed the runt, especially when he ran at him with chidori. Sasuke needed to grow stronger, and Itachi was trying to make sasuke hate him at a peak point and for a very good reason.

You completely ignore Itachi's plan in totality with your post. You realize had Itachi's plans gone correctly(without the interference of independent Obito) Sasuke would be living blissfully in Konoha with MS, thinking he avenged the Uchiha clan in full right? Kakashi and Naruto would have captured him right after the battle, and Sasuke would have gained MS from losing a loved one. Only the elders knew about Itachi's true life, so there is little chance Sasuke would have ever found out. Not saying that Itachi's plans were perfect or 100% moral, but it is fucking insanely idealistic to think people are comprised of being wholly good or evil. All of are actions are neutral in reality, but people as a society(or sometimes individually)determine what is morally right and wrong based off of empathy and Reason. Itachi was thrown into a situation most people in the world couldn't possibly handle, and he was only fucking 13. Most people always judge him for his actions and being a failure, and killing weaklings, when they forget Itachi himself was only Pt.1 Neji's age. For a 13 year old dealing with a possible Civil/4th Shinobi war, or the slaying of your corrupt clan, I'd say his desciosion can't possibly be described as evil, or even ambivalent. Itachi sought to protect Konoha and his brother.

-Itachi did not actively try and get Naruto, all evidence points towards this. Even the manga and databook support this decision that Itachi was a double agent. The only other Bjuu he went after was Roshi and Son Goku which once again he didn't fight against. The only way he really ever helped akatsuki was by meditating while the souls were escaping and once again this was done to keep his role in akatsuki to acheive his end means with Sasuke, and through fate Naruto.


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## EJ (Feb 3, 2013)

You're basically just repeating every "defense" for Itachi, while trying to paint him as a good person. 

He isn't, he mind fucked his own brother, is a hypocrite for choosing other children over his brother to stay alive to kill him, captured Jin with Kisame (you seem to have forgotten the panel with him and Kisame walking while carrying one of the Jin) and most likely leaked personal information about Konoha to Akatsuki. In short, Itachi aided Akatsuki in more ways did he hault them.

Saying he "did it for the greater good" isn't true, considering that he himself *admitted he should not had taken matters into his own hands, and admitted he failed in doing so. *


You're saying a good person would want their younger brother to live a lie his entire life, and live in the same village in which people ordered his entire family to be killed? Not only was he LYING to Sasuke, it was the ULTIMATE spit in the face towards his entire clan.


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## AshlynXUchiha (Feb 3, 2013)

Here's my view on Itachi, and here's why people think Itachi is good.

He was a spy for Konoha, it was his mission.  He did what he had to to protect Konoha.  Someone most likely would have destroyed the Uchiha anyways, and if they had, Sasuke would have been killed. He did so much for his little brother, did you not watch the show? He got rid of all his emotions, and he could kill everybody in his clan, but when it came to his little brother, he just couldn't, no matter what.
Now, I can see how people would think he's still a villian, I mean he WAS a part of the Akatsuki for quite some time. But at the same time, I find him to be one of the most amazing characters in Naruto.  I feel like there is still a lot of mystery yet to be learned about Itachi, I feel like he's a very complex character.

I don't consider him a "good guy"
And I don't consider him a "bad guy"


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## AshlynXUchiha (Feb 3, 2013)

Also, Itachi didn't know Sasuke would ever find out the truth, he tried his best to keep the truth hidden from him.  I think Itachi had good intentions, but they didn't turn out the way he had hoped. Sasuke found out too much, and was filled with even more hatred.


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## EJ (Feb 3, 2013)

Lying to your brother about his own family, telling him to live his life hating him, implying he should kill his best friend, and mentally traumitizing him on more than one occassion doesn't make him a good person in my opinion. 

Itachi seriously took the "Ends justified the means" to the point in which his actions were disgusting.


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## Dr. White (Feb 3, 2013)

Flow said:


> You're basically just repeating every "defense" for Itachi, while trying to paint him as a good person.
> 
> He isn't, he mind fucked his own brother, is a hypocrite for choosing other children over his brother to stay alive to kill him, captured and aided Jin and most likely leaked personal information about Konoha to Akatsuki. In short, Itachi aided Akatsuki in more ways did he hault them.
> 
> Saying he "did it for the greater good" isn't true, considering that he himself *admitted he should not had taken matters into his own hands, and admitted he failed in doing so. *



-Ok so basically what you are saying is I won't reply to your points about judging things based on context, and make a Genetic Fallacy right off the back, boy this should be good.

-So basically you called me out from giving in depths views on my opinion by calling them "usual Itachi defenses"(Ad Hominum Fallacy), but then resort to writing a short paragraph almost literally copying your initial post to me. Lol are you fucking joking?

-We are not talking here about if Itachi is perfect. As an objective fan I realize this, you know why? Because he is a fucking Human...Everyone does "good" and "Bad" things but these are just relative to the person or society judging them, and these concepts exist only amongst intelligent human minds. There is no Natural law that Murder is bad, this is a purely human things based on reason, and awareness of empathy much more than animals.

In relation to this argument I point this out because you are using such a weak debating tactic. 13 year old Itachi made a more moral choice than you could muster to ever make. He chose the lives of the village and its future > his clan and their intentions. You try to dehumanize him by pointing out mistakes he made in his life, and trying to paint him as a bad guy. You should know your argument is objectively weak when you are basically arguing against the fucking author himself. The question is not "Do you personally think he is a good guy" The thread title is "Why is Itachi considered a Good guy" Inherently implying that he is already considered good, hence the question formatting. This much is pretty much clear to anyone who can fucking read, Kishi has made it obvious that Itachi was masquerading as a villian de to his life conditions, multiple times he has highlighted Itachi's true character. Because ya know he didn't love Sasuke but yet sacrificed his whole life, and life potential for him right? Instead of gaining EMS and Rinnengan, right? Or how about never actively trying to get Naruto despite having him alone or genjutsu'd on several occasions. Or how about him aiding the 4th shinobi ninja alliance and saving the Gokage and the Naruto/Bee? The only people who can't get Itachi's objective character portrayal from the author(which is the source of Itachi) are haters and once again people who can't fucking read.


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## EJ (Feb 3, 2013)

Nope, more like, Itachi isn't a good person due to everything he has done in order to keep the village safe. He decided to keep someone as screwed/flawed like Danzo alive in over his family. He also threatened to "leak information" about the massacre to other villages that could of eventually proven to disrupt Konoha's chain of credibility and cause hostility. In essence, he was ready to put everything in vein if Sasuke were to die.

Yeah, let me lie to my brother about our own clan's death, tell him to hate me, imply for him to kill his best friend, try to BRAINWASH him, etc.

He's far from a good guy.


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## Dr. White (Feb 3, 2013)

Lol ok Flow, your insecurity Neg is enough for me to stop, it's clear you can't debate or comprehend sources of literature exceeding dozens of pages.


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## EJ (Feb 3, 2013)

Seeing as how you have yet to debunk any of my initial points of Itachi not being a good guy, I don't see any reason of why I should be insecure.


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## Dr. White (Feb 3, 2013)

I responded to each of your specific points in-depth in my initial response. To which you counter responded with Ad Hominum Fallacy. When I called you out on it and wrote an in depth summary on my poisiton you once backed out again and simply said "No its this way" without giving valid justification for your premises or debunking any of my point specifically, so now you're just being a hypocrite. 

Negging people for simply arguing their points in depth seems like a pretty insecure move.It's clear you're of no actual intellectual substance so I'm quite done responding to you after this/


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## EJ (Feb 3, 2013)

I haven't backed away from anything, you went on huge details of nothing what I was talking about and basically said "He did it all to save his village/little brother, so you have to understand_"

While I basically said it was a piss poor way of "showing that he loved his village/brother", and to support my statement, I brought up the fact that even Itachi implied what he did was wrong, but accepted at the time he only wanted to save his brother.


Then you resulted to insults, still not addressing any of my points.


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## Dr. White (Feb 3, 2013)

Flow said:


> I haven't backed away from anything, you went on huge details of nothing what I was talking about and basically said "He did it all to save his village/little brother, so you have to understand_"
> 
> While I basically said it was a piss poor way of "showing that he loved his village/brother", and to support my statement, I brought up the fact that even Itachi implied what he did was wrong, but accepted at the time he only wanted to save his brother.
> 
> ...



I'm not gonna reiderate my points when they are blatantly typed and not responded to. You can't fucking tell someone to respnd to your points, when A.) they already have more in depth than you, and B.) You yourself haven't responded to that person's own counter points. 

These two failures on your part are what led me to make those analyses about you, if it's insulting then so be it.


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## Gibbs (Feb 3, 2013)

Flow: Can you explain to me, how not pursuing Naruto is a bad action?


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## EJ (Feb 3, 2013)

They aren't counter points, they consist of you going into long details of basically saying the same thing that "He did it for his village", which I have already debunked and said it was a piss poor attempt, then saying that "The thread title is formatted in a sense that Itachi is a good guy" implying as if that it shouldn't be debatable regardless of the fact that people don't feel that he's a "good guy", just some guy that went through disgusting attempts at trying to keep his village safe. Using that logic, cruel dictators that slaughter other nations in order to perserve their own are "good people".



The Phoenix King said:


> Flow: Can you explain to me, how not pursuing Naruto is a bad action?



Can you explain to me on helping Kisame capture other jin that weren't Naruto, mind fucking his own brother, trying to brainwash him, lying to his own brother about their own families deaths, leaving the guy who ordered his clan's destruction (against Hokage's orders) alive, slaughtering children is a good action?


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## Dr. White (Feb 3, 2013)

Flow said:


> Can you explain to me on helping Kisame capture other jin that weren't Naruto, mind fucking his own brother, trying to brainwash him, lying to his own brother about their own families deaths, leaving the guy who ordered his clan's destruction (against Hokage's orders) alive, slaughtering children is a good action?



There ya go

*Spoiler*: __ 




-You completely take shit out of context to try and prove your bias. For example:
-You completely ignore the fact that the only reason he aided Akatsuki was out of necessity on many levels. First off as consequence of preventing a War by slaughtering the Uchiha clan in secret for Konoha, Itachi was marked an S-Rank criminal. This means no country would accept him as he was placed in the Bingo Book, and entitled a missing nin. This isn't touching upon the fact that no village in their right mind would let a suppossed psychopath clan killer into their village borders. So alas Itachi was stranded as alone: but as we saw he tracked down Tobi and made a deal with him, showing he had been acquanted with him. By joining Akatsuki not only did he have somewhere to literally live, but he also got to A.) Carry out his plan with Sasuke, B.) Keep an eye on Konoha(both from the inside as an Akatsuki, and to make sure Danzo didn't touch Sasuke) so right there your contention that because he aided Akatsuki(which btw he threw his mission in Konoha, and didn't participate in capturing Roshi, only Kisame did. is shown to be inherently flawed.

-Your second point that he killed innocent children is true. He did in fact kill the non shown children of the uchiha clan. But once again you take it completely out of context. Itachi was a double agent for Konoha and the Uchiha, and then eventually Danzo gave him the big ultimatum: Kill your clan to save Konoha, or die with your clan, and smirk with the thought of Konoha's destruction as you die. Itachi in the end choose to do things on his terms, killing the clan for the "greater good" but also saving the person that he loved most: his younger brother. With the short straws Itachi had to chose from I say he pretty much chose the best decision. So just ignorantly throwing out "Itachi killed children" for shock value despite it being without the circumstance, isn't going to cut it as a legit premise buddy. Would it have been any more moral for Itachi to simply say My Family > Everyone and caused major damage to the village that he so call loved? Had Itachi fought in the Konoha civil war he would have gathered much more bodies than the Uchiha massacre night, and those people were inherently innocent just as well. The only problem is that Uchiha ware bron with the Curse of Hatred, it is like literally in their DNA.It is sad to say but those children essentially were murdered for the potent potential sins of their fathers. Konoha was risking a shit ton in A.) Trusting Itachi didn't turn on them in the end. B.) Trusting him as a missing nin with sensitive information on Konoha(for example his ability to pass Konoha's sensor barriers.) and C.) Trusting and respecting Itachi enough(it was blatant the Danzo respected Itachi as a ninja.) to allow his terms of Sasuke living.
This much showed in that only 3 Uchiha ever have been shown to overcome this: Izuna(even though he aided the clan by bolstering Madara.) Itachi, and Shisui. Sasuke has done alot of damage but nothing of what is to come shall he walk down the path of darkness. Which brings me onto your next flawed contention.

-Yes indeed Itachi did use Tsukuyomi on Sasuke 3 times in his life, but once again you are taking this out of context. The first time he did it was to show sasuke the death of their parents, while wicked Itachi needed to harden Sasuke to the reality of the harshness of life, and it was his plan to make Sasuke resent him, hence Itachi had to revert to grave measures. The Second time is pretty much a bolster of this: I have seen brother who love eachother to death fist fight eachother serious as hell. Itachi wasn't their to be the loving brother anymore(because of him saving Konoha he consequentially couldn't be there for Sasuke), due to the conditions Sasuke needed to get powerful, and overcome the hatred in his own way which Itachi predicted would be vengeance. If Itachi was truly not a good loving brother he would have fucking killed the runt, especially when he ran at him with chidori. Sasuke needed to grow stronger, and Itachi was trying to make sasuke hate him at a peak point and for a very good reason.

You completely ignore Itachi's plan in totality with your post. You realize had Itachi's plans gone correctly(without the interference of independent Obito) Sasuke would be living blissfully in Konoha with MS, thinking he avenged the Uchiha clan in full right? Kakashi and Naruto would have captured him right after the battle, and Sasuke would have gained MS from losing a loved one. Only the elders knew about Itachi's true life, so there is little chance Sasuke would have ever found out. Not saying that Itachi's plans were perfect or 100% moral, but it is fucking insanely idealistic to think people are comprised of being wholly good or evil. All of are actions are neutral in reality, but people as a society(or sometimes individually)determine what is morally right and wrong based off of empathy and Reason. Itachi was thrown into a situation most people in the world couldn't possibly handle, and he was only fucking 13. Most people always judge him for his actions and being a failure, and killing weaklings, when they forget Itachi himself was only Pt.1 Neji's age. For a 13 year old dealing with a possible Civil/4th Shinobi war, or the slaying of your corrupt clan, I'd say his desciosion can't possibly be described as evil, or even ambivalent. Itachi sought to protect Konoha and his brother.

-Itachi did not actively try and get Naruto, all evidence points towards this. Even the manga and databook support this decision that Itachi was a double agent. The only other Bjuu he went after was Roshi and Son Goku which once again he didn't fight against. The only way he really ever helped akatsuki was by meditating while the souls were escaping and once again this was done to keep his role in akatsuki to acheive his end means with Sasuke, and through fate Naruto.





Now you can keep claiming the evidence and arguments for Itachi being good are false and illogical but until you demonstrate providing a sound logial argument backed with manga evidence, you are just basically repeating your first post over again, committing fallacies, and failing to realize how to debate.You can't just falsely generalize someones points and say there wrong, without analzing them and explaining how. If what you're looking for is a relativistic fan war backed by opinions of you perceive the manga subjectively then I have no time for this. Now I'm gonna go to sleep if there is a thoughtful response with demonstrative evidence in the morning I will respond, but if not don't hold your breath.


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## EJ (Feb 3, 2013)

Also Phoenix King,

would a caring "loving" brother consider chopping off Naruto's legs in order to keep his brother safe? He certainly didn't object.


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## Gibbs (Feb 3, 2013)

Flow said:


> Can you explain to me on helping Kisame capture other jin that weren't Naruto, mind fucking his own brother, trying to brainwash him, lying to his own brother about their own families deaths, leaving the guy who ordered his clan's destruction (against Hokage's orders) alive, slaughtering children is a good action?





Helping Kisame capture other-than Nartuo Jins was to keep a good light in the Akatsuki and not be outed. I feel and it is likely true, that he was Jiraiya's informant into Akatsuki mindsets and plans. 


With his Brother, he was likely under Hiruzen's Orders to do so. (It is corrupt)
If Itachi attacked Danzo(that is who you re referring to right?) then the entire Leaf village would be out to get him (Anbu, ROOT, etc). Look at it this way, Shinobi must follow the orders given to them, if they do not, they get punished severely.


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## Gibbs (Feb 3, 2013)

guess you didn't see the context it was used in. It was used sarcastically and Jiraiya was there IIRC and he might have known. 





Flow said:


> Also Phoenix King,
> 
> would a caring "loving" brother consider chopping off Naruto's legs in order to keep his brother safe? He certainly didn't object.



there's also such a thing as keeping up appearances.


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## EJ (Feb 3, 2013)

And I agree that he did all of that to keep the village safe. That doesn't make him a good person though, which a lot of people here fail to realize.


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## santanico (Feb 3, 2013)

What ninja is a good person? the exception being NaruJesus


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## EJ (Feb 3, 2013)

Not that it actually debunks anything I've said (in regards to "Ninjas aren't good people, they just carry out missions), but I'm willing to bet a lot of them in the Narutoverse wouldn't kill their own families, mindrape their own little brothers, lie to their little brothers about their families deaths, capture other Jin, etc (lol, note I have to actually put etc in order to water down how many fucked up things Itachi has done). 

So this notion of "Itachi was a good guy" is laughable.


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## Gibbs (Feb 3, 2013)

Well technically any genjutsu is indeed a mindrape.


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## EJ (Feb 3, 2013)

I don't see your point....?


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## Tengu (Feb 3, 2013)

Konoha is evil, what they did to the poor Rain Village.


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## santanico (Feb 3, 2013)

Flow said:


> Not that it actually debunks anything I've said (in regards to "Ninjas aren't good people, they just carry out missions), but I'm willing to bet a lot of them in the Narutoverse wouldn't kill their own families, mindrape their own little brothers, lie to their little brothers about their families deaths, capture other Jin, etc (lol, note I have to actually put etc in order to water down how many fucked up things Itachi has done).
> 
> So this notion of "Itachi was a good guy" is laughable.



So Itachi is the epitome of evil in your opinion? now _that _is laughable


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## EJ (Feb 3, 2013)

He's not the epitome of evil, considering I've read of worst villains. But his actions are disgusting, although he means good.


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## 青月光 (Feb 3, 2013)

All in all, the society moral?s of what?s wrong and right gets in the way of people?s judgement.

A shame but that?s how it is.


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## santanico (Feb 3, 2013)

Flow said:


> He's not the epitome of evil, considering I've read of worst villains. But his actions are disgusting, although he means good.



He's not as bad as Danzo, that guy twisted his "good intentions" to the fullest IMO


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## Leptirica (Feb 3, 2013)

Itachi is not as much a good guy as he is a lesson for the good guys - if you do things for the greater good, you will fail as a person in the end.


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## Dr. White (Feb 3, 2013)

Lol at people with their Idealistic Victorian perceptions of good and evil.


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## 青月光 (Feb 3, 2013)

Hate has no logic. Why argue with it?


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## santanico (Feb 3, 2013)

Leptirica said:


> Itachi is not as much a good guy as he is a lesson for the good guys - if you do things for the greater good, you will fail as a person in the end.



nicely said


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## EJ (Feb 3, 2013)

starr said:


> He's not as bad as Danzo, that guy twisted his "good intentions" to the fullest IMO



Never did like Danzo, and I don't understand how people in this section supported Danzo but despised Itachi at one point.

He hid underneath Konoha while Pain was destroying Konoha, manipulated Itachi, etc. Although, I still hold Itachi at fault for not going through the massacre differently, I utterly despise Danzo worse than Itachi since Danzo never had the balls to attempt what Itachi decided to do.


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## CRSeagle (Mar 10, 2016)

I would not consider Itachi to be anywhere near a good guy because he committed genocide to prevent a coup that only a few fanatics were supporting. He slaughtered every single one of the Uchiha clan including women, children, and elderly, excluding his little brother. What I think he should have done is confront the supporters of the coup and demand that they halt to prevent a civil war. Instead, he decides to kill every single person except for his beloved little brother. Its like saying that because of a few bad apples we are to discard the remaining good apples that could greatly outweigh the bad. I mean it seems psychotic just going ahead and killing every single person whether supportive of the coup or not. Oh and yes there is a great possibility that there were quite a few that were not supportive of the coup. For example, think of the children or any other clan member that was ignorant of the coup. I highly doubt that only Shisui and Itachi were the only ones that were against it. 
Would I consider Itachi a hero? No. Would I consider Itachi to have redeemed himself? Yes, he strategized the Fourth Shinobi War to be in favor of the Alliance when he deactivated the reanimation jutsu from Kabuto. 
On a side note: Should Kabuto be put to execution for his actions? Simple answer, Yes. Just because all of a sudden he decides to help Sasuke for about ten minutes and forgive himself for his wrongdoings does not escape the fact that he killed so many people, experimented on them, and basically assisted in creating a Fourth Shinobi War. So in plain sight, Orochimaru should also be confronted for his crimes. Should he be put to execution? Complicated, but the simple answer would be a big MAYBE probably leaning towards a YES.


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## Yagami1211 (Mar 10, 2016)

He was an ally of Naruto during the early stages of the war, he saw the Uchiha Massacre as a failure on his part. He released Edo Tensei and helped Sasuke rethinking his way of life. And he was on the alliance side during the war.
I mean, why would I consider him a bad guy ?


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## CRSeagle (Mar 10, 2016)

I mean the popular belief is that Itachi is an anti-hero, but he did sort of redeem himself from what you have just said. But lets be real here, he committed genocide there is no excuse for that.


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## Meat (Mar 10, 2016)

One word:

RETCON.


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## LadyTenTen (Mar 10, 2016)

Because fangirls and their tortured emo bishounens they want to protect.

I liked Itachi because he was a dark grey character who took part in a genocide because he thought he was doing the best for his village and little brother (in a really creepy and unnecesary way). I like complex characters like Danzou or him, but I will never understand why is he considered a saint by most people.

Oh well, I forgot Obito is the coolest guy... silly of me.


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## Dano (Mar 10, 2016)

He has too much antivillain traits and the story glossed over his horrible actions. However i put him in the same category as Pain (Nagato) an extremist who killed entire groups for their "greater good". I believe he has also "the curse" since he's insane.


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## Dariusd (Mar 11, 2016)

oMeGa1904 said:


> He has too much antivillain traits and the story glossed over his horrible actions. However i put him in the same category as Pain (Nagato) an extremist who killed entire groups for their "greater good". I believe he has also "the curse" since he's insane.



When you think about the context of the ninja world, Itachi did what ninjas do or any soldier of war for that matter. They don't question their higher ups and fufill their duty to their country/clan. The higher ups, right or wrong, thought his actions would reduce causalities from an all out war. Sucks for him to be caught in the middle of something like that but as they say.... one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.


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## Epyon (Mar 12, 2016)

If slaughtering every member of the opposing faction like the defenseless sheep there are isn't an act of all out war, I don't understand why people think whatever the Uchiha clan were planning somehow is.


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## ~M~ (Mar 12, 2016)

Epyon said:


> If slaughtering every member of the opposing faction like the defenseless sheep there are isn't an act of all out war, I don't understand why people think whatever the Uchiha clan were planning somehow is.



It's not a war if you're too dead to fight it


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## Toph (Mar 12, 2016)

I don't consider him a good guy at all.


*Spoiler*: __ 





HoroHoro said:


> I used to like Itachi when he was just a villain who wiped out his clan for shit and giggles. But then Kishimoto revealed the truth behind the massacre, then I came to hate this guy's very guts. For real, I haven't seen a character as problematic or despicable in this series like Itachi. As to why I loathe him, it's pretty long-winded, but I'll try my best to formulate myself:
> 
> 1. Many concepts surrounding his "heroism" are morally misguided, simplistic and extreme. Yet, the narrative relentlessly shows him in a heroic light, it destroys the ambigious morality in the series.
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Toph (Mar 17, 2016)

Also, I've been noticing some people keep saying Itachi was redeemed and is a hero because he defeated Kabuto and cancelled the Edo Tensei. I don't think that's the  equivalent of redemption, redemption to me is when you recognize your mistakes, which Itachi didn’t. 

When he came back as a zombie, he should've admitted the massacre was wrong. He apologized to Sasuke for lying to him and not relying more on others. Those things are inconsequential compared to his other fuck-ups. What he really should've apologized is killing Sasuke’s parents, mentally torturing him and forcing the burden of revenge on him. But Kishimoto favored Itachi too much to the point where he couldn't bring himself to confront his actual flaws. That's one of the many reasons why I despise Kishimoto's writing, there's certain levels of cowardice in it, he's afraid of showing characters in a negative light.

There's this moment when Itachi was talking to Sasuke, he said Konoha had darkness, but he's still Itachi of Konoha. Kishimoto could've salvaged his character had he let Itachi realize true patriotism is trying to fix the darkness, trying to make it a better place, not blindly supporting the government despite being aware it’s screwing people over with its "darkness."


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## Indra (Mar 18, 2016)

^Kishimoto has a problem with showing characters in too much negative light too 

I'm sure you can pick and choose those yourself.


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## EJ (Mar 18, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> I don't consider him a good guy at all.



Thanks for this quote.

The problem with Itachi's character is that it's complex within itself. It was a children's manga and Kishimoto loved Itachi's character a lot obviously. The problem with it was, he tried to present Itachi in a positive light, despite him doing fucked up things. 

He wasn't a righteous hero.

Kishimoto should had used Itachi as the epitome of the worst outcome for the system that existed within the ninja world. If Kishimoto wanted Itachi to still be looked at in a positive light, he could of had him come to the realization upon his death, or right before in a last ditch effort to make things right. 

What good is protecting Konoha if it's only contributing to the issues that exist within the ninja world?

I don't mind it when characters do screwed up things, if they are written well and the narrative behind them isn't trying to justify what they done.

I brought up Walter White from Breaking Bad before. At first you can empathize with what he's doing (making meth to be distributed to help pay for his Chemotherapy so his family wouldn't be left in debt upon him dying by chance), but it's how he develops into a ruthless man that lies to others, is deceitful, manipulative, literally attempts and kills people for his own self gain. Make this comparison with Itachi, he still has the love for his brother, and ultimately wanted peace.

It's how he went about is flawed. Kishimoto could had tried the whole "A civil war would break out", or talk about how screwed Itachi had it from the time of his birth (which I understand was significantly fucked up), but nothing can excuse what he did.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Mar 18, 2016)

Why Obito is considered the coolest guy ?



HoroHoro said:


> Also, I've been noticing some people keep saying Itachi was redeemed and is a hero because he defeated Kabuto and cancelled the Edo Tensei. I don't think that's the  equivalent of redemption, redemption to me is when you recognize your mistakes, which Itachi didn’t.
> 
> When he came back as a zombie, he should've admitted the massacre was wrong. He apologized to Sasuke for lying to him and not relying more on others. Those things are inconsequential compared to his other fuck-ups. What he really should've apologized is killing Sasuke’s parents, mentally torturing him and forcing the burden of revenge on him. But Kishimoto favored Itachi too much to the point where he couldn't bring himself to confront his actual flaws. That's one of the many reasons why I despise Kishimoto's writing, there's certain levels of cowardice in it, he's afraid of showing characters in a negative light.
> 
> There's this moment when Itachi was talking to Sasuke, he said Konoha had darkness, but he's still Itachi of Konoha. Kishimoto could've salvaged his character had he let Itachi realize true patriotism is trying to fix the darkness, trying to make it a better place, not blindly supporting the government despite being aware it’s screwing people over with its "darkness."



You gotta re-read the manga. Uchiha massacre was justified and was the best course of action to take @ that point. Why would Itachi apologize for taking care of a bunch of terrorists and saving the world ?

He should have been awarded a medal.

Most rookie mistake readers do is they assume morals and values of Narutoverse are the same as ours. 
You can't compare our world to a world where kids are trained to become killing machines and @ 7 are given a licence to kill. Their standarts and our standarts are worlds apart.


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## Yagami1211 (Mar 18, 2016)

Itachi killed kids ? Damn straight he did and he should be proud. Kids in Naruto can destroy mountains and earn a salary. Why did they took the Uchihas by surprise, at night, if they were harmless ? Itachi should have a statue in Konoha.


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## Drake (Mar 18, 2016)

The problem with this manga is that Kishimoto made blind patriotism out to be the best possible quality anyone can have. Hashirama says that he would have killed his own family members as well if they tried to betray the village, and he also says that Itachi is a better shinobi than he is. When even the God of Shinobi admits inferiority, you know that Itachi was meant to be the true paragon of the series. If you look at it from the point of view Kishimoto wanted his readers to see the manga from, Itachi is undoubtedly the most "good" character in the series.

However, if you look at it from a normal, sensible perspective, Itachi seems more insane and mentally unbalanced than good. Most people in the real world would not murder their entire family for the sake of their country.


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## Kusa (Mar 18, 2016)

Simply for his intentions. He did not mean it badly when he killed his whole clan. He wanted to save more people, thus it makes him somehow a good guy.
 Kishi tried too hard to portray Itachis act as selfless, but deciding over peoples life and choosing what is the best to your morals is anything but selfless. Itachi lived a life of hell, but it was his choice. In that moment he decided *himself* what would be the best, what his brother would go through or  or how some people in his clan who were not interested in attacking Konoha, since everywhere there are good and bad people, that those people wanted to live and had the right to live was not as important to him as doing what* he felt* was the right thing to do. He decided there are no better options that day, but we all know if Naruto was in his shoes, he would have found a better option than killing your own clan. Itachi himself later was convinced that his brother could have made a difference, which shows despite it being really difficult for him to kill his own parents, he really did not even think or tried to find other ways *at all cost *to prevent the Uchihas from attacking Konoha and resulting a civil war. And if there was really no better option, even then it's selfish to decide that a civil war is worse than having the blood of your own people in your hands.

Then the way how he dealt with Sasuke shows how he was not a good guy at all. He made his life to hell and did mindfuck him two times only to make him a hero in the end. Either way he was completely retarded and thought as long his brother got a good ending everything would be okay or he simply cared more about his own interests and that was to die by his own brothers hands. Fact is no matter how much Kishi tries to convince the readers by making Itachi say things like 'I will always love you', Itachi made Sasukes life to hell and if his teammates were not Team 7 and not ready to try save his ass 100x times from the 'darkness' then Sasukes life would have been pretty much over.

Trying to make such an character like Itachi a good guy was a big mistake, because his past actions were too dark. Even a really good mangaka could have not pulled that out and of course someone with Kishimotos skills even less.


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## SasukeHokage (Mar 18, 2016)

Drake said:


> The problem with this manga is that Kishimoto made blind patriotism out to be the best possible quality anyone can have. Hashirama says that he would have killed his own family members as well if they tried to betray the village, and he also says that Itachi is a better shinobi than he is. When even the God of Shinobi admits inferiority, you know that Itachi was meant to be the true paragon of the series. If you look at it from the point of view Kishimoto wanted his readers to see the manga from, Itachi is undoubtedly the most "good" character in the series.
> 
> However, if you look at it from a normal, sensible perspective, Itachi seems more insane and mentally unbalanced than good. Most people in the real world would not murder their entire family for the sake of their country.




Itachi did not do the uchiha genocide out of patriotism fOR the hidden leaf, he did it to avoid war between the 2 sides. He being one of closest individual to both sides could see that this would have only brought destruction and mass murder for both!

The second reason he did it is *SO HE COULD SPARE Sasuke*...  had the war been commenced Sasuke (the young son unable to defend himself) would have been an easy target and a great stategic move to kidnap/kill for the hidden leaf.

He didnt want the Uchiha to be remembered as the (Nazis) could also be a reason but i have no proof of this XD


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## Rafay (Mar 18, 2016)

Technically he was a good guy for two reasons. First reason is that Kishi wanted it that way and its his manga. Second reason is that he was on Konoha's side. Its as simple as that. In Naruto, if you're on Konoha's side you are a good guy. It doesn't matter how many people you kill. Ibiki tortures people and he's considered a good guy. Danzo was assigned second in command by Hiruzen despite everything he did. And besides, the penalty for treason in Konoha is death. The uchihas not only committed treason, but almost started a world war just because they thought they were disrespected.


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## Drake (Mar 18, 2016)

SasukeHokage said:


> Itachi did not do the uchiha genocide out of patriotism fOR the hidden leaf



It was one of the two big reasons why hie murdered his clan, so yes he did.



> he did it to avoid war between the 2 sides. He being one of closest individual to both sides could see that this would have only brought destruction and mass murder for both! The second reason he did it is *SO HE COULD SPARE Sasuke*...  had the war been commenced Sasuke (the young son unable to defend himself) would have been an easy target and a great stategic move to kidnap/kill for the hidden leaf.



Not necessarily. The Uchiha are a cursed clan, and their curse is that they experience love very strongly and will do anything to protect that love so they don't have to experience the intense anguish that comes with the loss of that love. Danzo used this to his advantage, and he manipulated Itachi's love for Sasuke by telling him that Sasuke would be killed if the Uchiha rebelled, even though no one really knows whether Sasuke would have lived or died had the Uchihas revolted.

If there really was a war between the Uchiha and Konoha, who knows what could have happened. Danzo saying that the Uchiha would all be wiped out anyway is pure speculation, but Itachi took it as truth because he was blinded by his love for Sasuke.



> He didnt want the Uchiha to be remembered as the (Nazis) could also be a reason but i have no proof of this XD



If the Uchihas won (or even if they lost), they wouldn't be remembered as Nazis. The goal of the Uchiha clan was to overthrow the Leaf government, not to commit mass genocide. And by murdering his entire clan, Itachi ensured that the reputation of the Uchiha was destroyed anyway.


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## Toph (Mar 19, 2016)

Yagami1211 said:


> Itachi killed kids ? Damn straight he did and he should be proud. Kids in Naruto can destroy mountains and earn a salary.



This is so sad to see people of your kind have this sort of mentality. I still vividly remember a few years back when die hard Itachi fanboys were still clinging on to the ludicrous argument that Sasuke was the only Uchiha kid at the time prior to the massacre, they were still sane enough to recognize children are innocent, and they made up this improbable scenario to argue he never killed any kid. Now they don't even care, they're all like, "Who cares if children got murdered, everyone who's murdered in the Naruto Universe deserves it!" This is how extreme nationalism would push people. It's incredible.



> Why did they took the Uchihas by surprise, at night, if they were harmless ? Itachi should have a statue in Konoha.



Interesting... Ninjas are known for their stealth and ruthlessness, they attack from the shadow. Of course they'd attack at night to take down their targets by surprise. They're no samurai, they have no honor.


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## Milliardo (Mar 19, 2016)

Yagami1211 said:


> Itachi killed kids ? Damn straight he did and he should be proud. Kids in Naruto can destroy mountains and earn a salary. Why did they took the Uchihas by surprise, at night, if they were harmless ? Itachi should have a statue in Konoha.


I don?t understand how anybody would feel proud about killing kids whether they can fight back or not. A child is just beginning their life and has a long way to go on life lessons compared to an adult...

I understand self defense even from a kid but I wouldn't feel proud about killing one even if it did save my life. Maybe that's just me.


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## EJ (Mar 19, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> This is so sad to see people of your kind have this sort of mentality. I still vividly remember a few years back when die hard Itachi fanboys were still clinging on to the ludicrous argument that Sasuke was the only Uchiha kid at the time prior to the massacre, they were still sane enough to recognize children are innocent, and they made up this improbable scenario to argue he never killed any kid. Now they don't even care, they're all like, "Who cares if children got murdered, everyone who's murdered in the Naruto Universe deserves it!" This is how extreme nationalism would push people. It's incredible.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting... Ninjas are known for their stealth and ruthlessness, they attack from the shadow. Of course they'd attack at night to take down their targets by surprise. They're no samurai, they have no honor.



They did it in some of the threads I had made in regards with his character, and some of them still do.

"Well YOU KNOW....we never SAW any other children in the Uchiha clan, so as far as we know..Sasuke was the only kid."

I do however understand a kid in the Narutoverse can't be compared to a kid in our own world (more specifically countries).


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## Toph (Mar 20, 2016)

Flow said:


> Thanks for this quote.
> 
> The problem with Itachi's character is that it's complex within itself. It was a children's manga and Kishimoto loved Itachi's character a lot obviously. The problem with it was, he tried to present Itachi in a positive light, despite him doing fucked up things.
> 
> ...



Thank you. 

I know a lot of people think Itachi loved Sasuke, and had a soft spot for their brotherly relationship. I'm not one of them unfortunately. I don't like Itachi because he's Kishimoto's pet, but I also feel sorry for him because he _is_ Kishimoto's favorite. He turned out to be such a terrible character upon the revelation of the Uchiha Massacre exactly because the author is too biased, and tried too hard to make his favorite character look admirable and heroic. Look at Danzo for example, his actions and beliefs are similar to Itachi's, Kishimoto had no love for him whatsoever, and he turned out to be the best character in the whole series.


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## Garcher (Mar 20, 2016)

Itachi is a hero


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## Elite Uchiha (Mar 20, 2016)

People think a guy who murdered innocent children was a "good guy". I'm the original Itachi stan and I even realize he's far from good.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 21, 2016)

GARcher said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Onoki as well as you spoke to soon....
The above action literally defines Itachi's Heroic escapades....

The two biggest threats to Konoha/Shinobi World, that were Uchiha based were Sasuke and Madara respectively......Thus, despite Itachi's efforts to protect the world from his people, his efforts were mostly in-vane. But that's not why I entered this discussion. The sole reason why I entered this discussion was to ask the question of "WHO" played the role of villain in that scene? And if your answer is other than Itachi, then why oh why does Itachi himself transcribe is actions as a "crime against the Uchiha?"(The Konoha vs. Uchiha issue isn't one of simply black and white)

Ultimately speaking, if I was the face of the "Heroic" Itachi movement, I'd long since denounce that opinion, as it's clearly a gateway to ridicule and then some.....And long start acknowledging and even embracing the redirection of Itachi's character which is simply this...... Downgrade you say, maybe. But it aligns perfectly with this.(Who's viewpoint came from a neutral party might I add) It also transitions Itachi's actions from issue of black or white, to a question of what was ultimately best for Sasuke. The answer to that you say? Unknown, although we can use the argument of Adult Sasuke......


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## Bloo (Mar 27, 2016)

Who the hell revived this thread? Doesn't this topic get old to you all?


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## Garcher (Mar 27, 2016)

right now you are the one reviving it


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## Platypus (Mar 27, 2016)

Bumping it is kinda counterproductive you know...


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## Elicit94 (Mar 27, 2016)

You can't kill children, yet still be a good guy. Itachi murdered innocent children and left only one there for his preference, Sasuke. It is because of the little shit, that the manga itself is completely fucked up. All morality in the manga is embedded on what Sasuke does. He is the only guide. 

Never, for the life of any person's soul, should you try to give liberty to a complete scumbag while having a double standard in your heart.

[YOUTUBE]YYb9kSCkjE8[/YOUTUBE]


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## Milliardo (Mar 27, 2016)

It's funny because Itachi fans keep reviving it. 


Hey, mod do the Itachi fans a favor and lock this thread.


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## Bloo (Mar 27, 2016)

GARcher said:


> right now you are the one reviving it





Platypus said:


> Bumping it is kinda counterproductive you know...


With how long it takes threads to die in the near-vacated KL of today, 6 days is an extremely recent thread (which is why it was at the top of the KL thread list when I logged on...).

I agree with Milliardo, locking would be awesome.


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