# Naruto Universe Vs Avatar Universe



## Superrazien (Feb 5, 2007)

These two shows have been compared enough but I dont think I ever seen a VS thread, so what universe do you think is overall more powerful, and who do you think is more powerful between Naruto and Ang?


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## Limit_Tester (Feb 5, 2007)

Narutoverse easily.


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## Orion (Feb 5, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Narutoverse easily.



Seconded,(imagines the avatarverse trying to deal with a tailed beast......hehe).


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## Hagen (Feb 5, 2007)

Narutoverse wins but not easily, though.

Personally i dislike Avatar, i cant stand an anime with no hot babes at all. seriously, wtf?
Actually, all people there are utterly ugly. i wonder why.


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## Vicious (Feb 5, 2007)

Kyuubi FTW.. but i think the narutoverse may have little trouble.imo


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## ~Avant~ (Feb 5, 2007)

Narutoverse wins if only because of the Bijuus. In a fight Aang can beat Naruto


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## Vance (Feb 5, 2007)

Avatar is the most retarded thing in the whole. I mean seriously, Ang is a friggin stupid bald idiot. Naruto the character. (Which I think is a stupid dickwad) could easily kill him. I mean, hell, Gaara would finish a whoole bunch of avatar characters, not to mention Gai and his Gates.


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## Shinkirou (Feb 5, 2007)

Actually, Aang could probably whoop Narutos ass, horribly. I'll give this fight to the Narutoverse. Bijuu FTW!


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## Purgatory (Feb 5, 2007)

Dynamic Entry!


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## GaaraFromTheHood (Feb 5, 2007)

Vance said:


> Avatar is the most retarded thing in the whole. I mean seriously, Ang is a friggin stupid bald idiot. Naruto the character. (Which I think is a stupid dickwad) could easily kill him. I mean, hell, Gaara would finish a whoole bunch of avatar characters, not to mention Gai and his Gates.



The earth kingdom army would massacre Gaara before he did anything. 
Avatarverse is severely underrated, but we are talking about armies of people that can all do bending in common, while in Narutoverse they rely on small villages with ninjas. Is not close in terms of scale. But it is debatable whether the best guys from Avatar can defeat the best from Narutoverse, because in avatar they only control one element. 

However, if everybody counts the Bijuu in this fight, I'm assuming you can use all the previous Avatars in this fight, and if that's the case, Narutoverse is seriously getting raped by Lava, Lightining, and Massive earthquakes and Hurricanes and Typhoons.....OMG it would be total pwnage.


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## Limit_Tester (Feb 5, 2007)

I could see the sannin individually taking large portions of avatarverse. In fact, I would say that with only that Naruto characters shown so far could take the entire world.


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## Superrazien (Feb 5, 2007)

GaaraFromTheHood said:


> The earth kingdom army would massacre Gaara before he did anything.
> Avatarverse is severely underrated, but we are talking about armies of people that can all do bending in common, while in Narutoverse they rely on small villages with ninjas. Is not close in terms of scale. But it is debatable whether the best guys from Avatar can defeat the best from Narutoverse, because in avatar they only control one element.
> 
> However, if everybody counts the Bijuu in this fight, I'm assuming you can use all the previous Avatars in this fight, and if that's the case, Narutoverse is seriously getting raped by Lava, Lightining, and Massive earthquakes and Hurricanes and Typhoons.....OMG it would be total pwnage.



You do forget though Naruto has people that are immortal and can send you to another dimension. Also Genjutsu would play a big, big, big role. Its the Naruto universes main advantage agenst any other anime.


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## Un (Feb 5, 2007)

Naruto Universe easily. The only thing I wonder is would Earth Benders be able to control Gaara's sand?


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## Finn Mac Cool (Feb 6, 2007)

Let's say for the sake of argument (since we know very little about the limits of either) that Aang's Avatar State (where he has the power of every Avatar to ever live combined) matches the tailed beasts in power, and the two cancel each other out.  You've then got the regular fighters of each universe up against each other.

While Avatar may have some numerical superiority, plus the steampunk tanks and boats employed by the Fire Nation, there are several factors that doom them:

For starters, there's the issue of speed.  I'm normally not one to hype up the difference in speed between universes, but, while Avatarverse martial artists do display some unusually fast reaction times, they do not have any real speedsters among them, so people like Lee, Sasuke, and Gai can really go to town on groups of benders who, if not for the speed gap, could have beaten them.

Second, aside from the Avatars, the Avatarverse has yet to show anything that could really be called their own version of S-Class fighters.  No one who can destroy an entire city, like Deidara.  No one who can survive massive amounts of physical punishment like Tsunade, Kakuza, or Orochimaru.  No one who can summon their very own God of Death like the Third and Fourth Hokages.

Third, the Narutoverse has an edge in variability.  There's nothing that can be done with bending that ninja techniques can't duplicate, but there are numerous things that jutsu can do that benders can't hope to copy, like the various Genjutsu, clone techniques, substitutions, Shadow Bind, Mind Transfer, control over various special animals, Rasengan, etc.


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## Graham Aker (Feb 6, 2007)

> Actually, all people there are utterly ugly. i wonder why.


not all of them..
Azula and scar-han's mom is beautiful
Azula herself is beautiful as well
Ty Lee
Jun

so thats four....



> The only thing I wonder is would Earth Benders be able to control Gaara's sand?


there are Sand Benders in Avatarverse, lots of them, so Gaara wont be a force...



> Avatar is the most retarded thing in the whole. I mean seriously, Ang is a friggin stupid bald idiot. Naruto the character. (Which I think is a stupid dickwad) could easily kill him. I mean, hell, Gaara would finish a whoole bunch of avatar characters, not to mention Gai and his Gates.


have you watched it all? 
Naruto cant beat Aang...
Aang will just keep blowing Naruto away and throwing rocks and other crazy shit at Naruto...
Gai and his gates, well Avatar state could take care of him...



> You do forget though Naruto has people that are immortal and can send you to another dimension. Also Genjutsu would play a big, big, big role. Its the Naruto universes main advantage agenst any other anime.


immortals are overrated, Avatarverse can just freeze them in a huge block of ice.
no one in Naruto can send other people to another dimension, is it a filler char? though imo, I dont think they should count...
Genjutsu doesnt work without Narutoverse chakra.



> For starters, there's the issue of speed. I'm normally not one to hype up the difference in speed between universes, but, while Avatarverse martial artists do display some unusually fast reaction times, they do not have any real speedsters among them, so people like Lee, Sasuke, and Gai can really go to town on groups of benders who, if not for the speed gap, could have beaten them.


there really is no need for Avatarverse to engage them in hand to hand...Waterbenders will throw tidal waves and freeze them



> Second, aside from the Avatars, the Avatarverse has yet to show anything that could really be called their own version of S-Class fighters. No one who can destroy an entire city, like Deidara. No one who can survive massive amounts of physical punishment like Tsunade, Kakuza, or Orochimaru. No one who can summon their very own God of Death like the Third and Fourth Hokages.


third and fourth are dead, unless their included, then the past Avatar should be too...Avatar Kyoshi moved an entire Island by herself, effortlessly...



> Third, the Narutoverse has an edge in variability. There's nothing that can be done with bending that ninja techniques can't duplicate, but there are numerous things that jutsu can do that benders can't hope to copy, like the various Genjutsu, clone techniques, substitutions, Shadow Bind, Mind Transfer, control over various special animals, Rasengan, etc.


why would Avatarverse need to copy their techs?


anyway, I see the Bijuu's as something that would be a bit of a problem for the Avatarverse, but Aang and Katara once froze a giant sea serpent that could easily be one of the top monsters in Calm Belt(in OP U)...so the Bijuu's(the once weve seen so far at least)will be a factor but something that Avatarverse can take care of eventually...Kyuubi, however is a different story...far too powerful and intelligent, he could easily melt his way out of metal, rock and ice and win the whole thing himself, but I dont think he can survive getting hit by a Comet though...which is why, Avatarverse wins...


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## Shinkirou (Feb 6, 2007)

> immortals are overrated, Avatarverse can just freeze them in a huge block of ice.
> no one in Naruto can send other people to another dimension, is it a filler char? though imo, I dont think they should count...
> Genjutsu doesnt work without Narutoverse chakra.



I think they're talking about Kakashis MS. Which I must say may warp shit through another dimension, whatevers warped seems to still end up somewhere in the Narutoverse. An example being Deidaras arm. The only real advantage the Narutoverse has is summons and Bijuu, without those they're pretty much fucked. 

One of the main reasons for that is that ninjutsu and shit takes chakra, which after 4-5 shots of a big move a person would be out and pretty much helpless. The Avatarverse however can reproduce most any elemental ninjutsu and continue to do so until they can no longer move due to fatigue. Also, there aren't really any true immortals in the Narutoverse, not ones I can think of anyway. Orochimaru, Hidan, and everyother semi immortal person can all be killed so thats not much of a problem.

Like I said in my earlier post, I think that the Narutoverse would win, but only because of the bijuu and the summons.


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## Graham Aker (Feb 6, 2007)

Oh MS Kakashi, I forgot. He wont be a factor though.

Summons wont really be a problem, Avatarverse either cooks them or imprison them using either rock/ice. Same goes for the Bijuus seen so far, except Kyuubi. Though I think using Azulons comet would do the trick. And knock the daylights out of Kyuubi.


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## wolfn64 (Feb 6, 2007)

naruto verse even though avatars is pretty cool itself


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## Chatulio (Feb 6, 2007)

Aang as the avatar owns everything below byjuu's. Aang if combined with an elemental spirit will stand up to some of the weaker byjuu though.


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## Birkin (Feb 6, 2007)

Farmer with a shotgun!!!... err wrong series :<

Dynamic Entry solos this :>


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## Sharingan No Yondaime (Feb 6, 2007)

This is actually pretty stupid if you think about it. Narutoverse wins, and wtf? why in hell would you include previous avatars

Deidara bombs the entire Fire Nation out of existence with Kamikaze and #18

Kisame, Kakashi, or some other water users flood the entire Earth kingdom

bijuus curbstomping what little of tribes the water nation has

The rest of swarms of shinobi swarm the entire Avatarverse with explosions everywhere. Game OVER


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## Shiron (Feb 6, 2007)

...Why is Kyuubi being included (I see a lot of people mentioning him) in the fight, as it's own being? I mean, isn't he in Naruto?  So what, are we giving the Naruto universe two Kyuubis or what?


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## GaaraFromTheHood (Feb 6, 2007)

Sharingan No Yondaime said:


> *This is actually pretty stupid if you think about it. Narutoverse wins, and wtf? why in hell would you include previous avatars*


Its universe against universe. All previous avatars are included, as well as Bijuus and previous hokages.



Sharingan No Yondaime said:


> Deidara bombs the entire Fire Nation out of existence with Kamikaze and #18


The Fire nation will be firing and lightning his ass out of the air. 



Sharingan No Yondaime said:


> Kisame, Kakashi, or some other water users flood the entire Earth kingdom


Ummm, and you don't think the water nation is aware of that? They can do the same thing and can even make ice out of any water they generate with chakra and send it back at them.



Sharingan No Yondaime said:


> bijuus curbstomping what little of tribes the water nation has


This would be the main problem, but the avatars take this. Like it was mentioned before, Ryoku moved an entire island no problem, and he can control Lava. 



Sharingan No Yondaime said:


> The rest of swarms of shinobi swarm the entire Avatarverse with explosions everywhere. Game OVER



Where are the swarms of shinobi? They are villages, that serve as shinobi protectors for their respective country. In avatar, almost everybody fight like real war. 
And where are you getting the explosions from, because in the Avatar they got freaking ships and huge tanks, and organized armies that do organized war. Not like the earthbenders cant just lift up huge walls to guard themselves. 

Also to answer the question of whether they can control the gaaras sand, in the episodes when the avatar was in the dessert, those guys control the wind and the sand to move around.



Nate River said:


> ...Why is Kyuubi being included (I see a lot of people mentioning him) in the fight, as it's own being? I mean, isn't he in Naruto?  So what, are we giving the Naruto universe two Kyuubis or what?



LMAO THat's funny...but true, is either Naruto got him or not. LOL that's hillarious.


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## Superrazien (Feb 6, 2007)

> immortals are overrated, Avatarverse can just freeze them in a huge block of ice.
> no one in Naruto can send other people to another dimension, is it a filler char? though imo, I dont think they should count...
> Genjutsu doesnt work without Narutoverse chakra.



Immortals are not that overraited, Kakasu has 5 hearts so good luck trying to take all them out, Hidan is so far the most immortal character we have seen, all he needs is just a drop of ones blood and they are dead. Itachis God of The Sun and Kakashis MS send people/things to other dimensions. Genjutsus should be allowed to work as its a ability in the Naruto universe, by that logic then you can say the Avatar universe cannot use bending because it only exists in their world. Plus Chakra is just energy all beings have it anyways.

I also noticed people saying about the sand benders could control Gaaras sand. This reminds me of the Gaara VS Crocodile fight, pretty much if you believe that Gaara cannot control Crocodile then I hope you dont believe a sand bender can control Gaaras sand.


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## Shiron (Feb 6, 2007)

Kakuzu? All he is is 5 times the work that the Avatarverse would have to do to beat anyone else. They just have to kill him five times instead of one, that's all. It might take them some work to do so, depending on who's fighting him, but it's not impossible or anything.

Hidan? Err, look at the recent Shikamaru v. Hidan fight. Err, yeah... He's alive, yes, but he's stuck in a pit for the rest of time. Earthbenders could do a similar thing, even if it means having to sacrifice a few of them to Hidan's ritutal to get him into such a pit.

And where in the world did you get Amaterasu being a teleportation jutsu thing from? The databook describes it quite clearly as something that creates black flames (as does the manga itself), not a teleportation jutsu...

And Kakashi's MS does NOT teleport things to another dimension. It might work in a similar fashion as Kurt's teleportation does in the X-Men, going through another dimension to reach the object/person's destanation, but it doesn't actually teleport them to another one; it just teleports them someone else (clearly referenced by how Deidara was able to find his arm. Had Kakashi actually teleported it to another dimension, this would have been impossible).

Noe: I'm not taking sides here (at least not yet). I'm merely stating how the Avatarverse could beat people like Hidan and Kakuzu, not if they could beat them along with everyone else.


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## Orion (Feb 6, 2007)

Nate River said:


> Kakuzu? All he is is 5 times the work that the Avatarverse would have to do to beat anyone else. They just have to kill him five times instead of one, that's all. It might take them some work to do so, depending on who's fighting him, but it's not impossible or anything.
> 
> Hidan? Err, look at the recent Shikamaru v. Hidan fight. Err, yeah... He's alive, yes, but he's stuck in a pit for the rest of time. Earthbenders could do a similar thing, even if it means having to sacrifice a few of them to Hidan's ritutal to get him into such a pit.
> 
> ...


Kakashi's ms does put stuff in another dimension,deidara's arm got hit at the elbow and the arm fell off because it had no middle lol.


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## Shiron (Feb 6, 2007)

vlaaad12345 said:


> Kakashi's ms does put stuff in another dimension,deidara's arm got hit at the elbow and the arm fell off because it had no middle lol.


*Sigh*
Where does it say that Kakashi's MS teleports things to another dimension then? I'm pretty confident that it deosn't and that's just one of the theories on what it does.

Not to mention this whole thing about Deidara's arm falling off was never mentioned and is just as much of an interpretation of what happened as mine of Kakashi's MS just teleporting it...


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## Orion (Feb 6, 2007)

Nate River said:


> *Sigh*
> Where does it say that Kakashi's MS teleports things to another dimension then? I'm pretty confident that it deosn't and that's just one of the theories on what it does.
> 
> Not to mention this whole thing about Deidara's arm falling off was never mentioned and is just as much of an interpretation of what happened as mine of Kakashi's MS just teleporting it...




Picture says a thousand words,or is worth a thousand words or something you get the idea.


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## Shinkirou (Feb 6, 2007)

Once again, it might have sent it through another dimension but it obviously doesn't stay there, because it actually took Deidaras arm away yet he still found it, without having to go to another dimension himself. If we're including past avatars then I'm gonna have to go with the Avatarverse, cause there were a helluvalot of avatars.


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## Orion (Feb 6, 2007)

Shinkirou said:


> Once again, it might have sent it through another dimension but it obviously doesn't stay there, because it actually took Deidaras arm away yet he still found it, without having to go to another dimension himself. If we're including past avatars then I'm gonna have to go with the Avatarverse, cause there were a helluvalot of avatars.




Once again it hit the elbow not the whole arm kakashi's aim isnt the greatest on a moving target.


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## GaaraFromTheHood (Feb 6, 2007)

vlaaad12345 said:


> Once again it hit the elbow not the whole arm kakashi's aim isnt the greatest on a moving target.



Are we really arguing about this? That is irrelevant to this topic, as Kakashi will sure run out of chakra before he gets done sending hundreds of thousands of people into the other side of the world. But wait, I guess he can just recuperate his chakra while they make their way back to the war site right.....right......
Kakashi is not Vegeta, he's not sending anybody to another dimension. Period.


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## Orion (Feb 6, 2007)

GaaraFromTheHood said:


> Are we really arguing about this? That is irrelevant to this topic, as Kakashi will sure run out of chakra before he gets done sending hundreds of thousands of people into the other side of the world. But wait, I guess he can just recuperate his chakra while they make their way back to the war site right.....right......
> Kakashi is not Vegeta, he's not sending anybody to another dimension. Period.


Im simply correcting people who say he cant send things to another dimension i never once said he would be mass ms raping people.......but yes he could send a couple people.


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## Shinkirou (Feb 6, 2007)

Either way its not gonna matter, sure, he gets one maybe two ppl with it, then he dies. Its like I said, the main reason that the people from avatar can win is because they dont really have as strict a limit as the people from Naruto. They can repeatedly spam their biggest move over and over again and can continue to do so until they're literally too physically tired to perform the movements to use it.


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## Orion (Feb 6, 2007)

I know its not going to matter like i said he will get a few people and thats it,i was merely providing evidence to prove that kakashi can actually send shit to another dimension.


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## Shinkirou (Feb 6, 2007)

M'kay. So who is included in this fight? Mainly wondering if the past avatars and bijuu are being included.


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## Limit_Tester (Feb 6, 2007)

If Avatarverse gets past avatars (which makes no sense), then Narutoverse gets all Kages ever and Kyuubi (which is also retarded) and they still win.


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## Graham Aker (Feb 6, 2007)

> M'kay. So who is included in this fight? Mainly wondering if the past avatars and bijuu are being included.


every character at its current...so no past avatars, no Kyuubi(Kyuubi is in Naruto avterall ;P) and only use the bijuu's that have been shown thus far...



> Deidara bombs the entire Fire Nation out of existence with Kamikaze and #18
> 
> Kisame, Kakashi, or some other water users flood the entire Earth kingdom
> 
> ...


so everyone in Avatarverse would just let them do that?
earthbender: oh lookie, someones going to kill us. but we wont do anything, ne ne?
cabbage man: my cabbages!!! >_>



> Immortals are not that overraited, Kakasu has 5 hearts so good luck trying to take all them out, Hidan is so far the most immortal character we have seen, all he needs is just a drop of ones blood and they are dead. Itachis God of The Sun and Kakashis MS send people/things to other dimensions. Genjutsus should be allowed to work as its a ability in the Naruto universe, by that logic then you can say the Avatar universe cannot use bending because it only exists in their world. Plus Chakra is just energy all beings have it anyways.
> 
> I also noticed people saying about the sand benders could control Gaaras sand. This reminds me of the Gaara VS Crocodile fight, pretty much if you believe that Gaara cannot control Crocodile then I hope you dont believe a sand bender can control Gaaras sand.


its spelled KAKUZU btw...
and they wouldnt need to take out his hearts, they'll just freeze him...and every other "immortal" in Narutoverse...among others...
last time I check, the target would have to sit still for Kakashi to send people to "another dimension" lawl
Amaterasu, we havent seen the extent of this technique but regardless, it wouldnt be a problem..Itachi has sucky vitality...
universal battle, its not like the fight takes place in one universe, so the absence of N chakra in the people of the Avatarverse makes using Genjutsu on them impossible...
current Gaara gets curbstomped by 1 sandbender....before kidnapped...3 Sandbenders...or Waterbenders just freeze him...


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## Shinkirou (Feb 6, 2007)

Avatarverse wins due to sheer numbers. They have armies of benders, while there are only villages of ninjas.


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## Limit_Tester (Feb 6, 2007)

Their "armies" of benders consist of a handful of benders who are mooks at best. The most powerful people BY FAR are the Avatar and co. The only one who comes close to matching them is Bumi. Everyone else is a bunch of scrubs. The Narutoverse easily outclasses them in speed. A chuunin can probably outspeed even Aang.


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## GaaraFromTheHood (Feb 6, 2007)

theSpectre said:


> every character at its current...so no past avatars, no Kyuubi(Kyuubi is in Naruto avterall ;P) and only use the bijuu's that have been shown thus far...



I say if its the whole universe, then everybody counts, unless the thread starter specifies the rules. 



theSpectre said:


> Amaterasu, we havent seen the extent of this technique but regardless, it wouldnt be a problem..Itachi has sucky vitality...
> *universal battle, its not like the fight takes place in one universe, so the absence of N chakra in the people of the Avatarverse makes using Genjutsu on them impossible...*
> current Gaara gets curbstomped by 1 sandbender....before kidnapped...3 Sandbenders...or Waterbenders just freeze him...



They can have all the genjutsu they want. That is part of their offense (that would negate tsukiyomi which would be one of the biggest weapons for narutoverse...) It wont make a difference, the avatars destroy them.


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## Superrazien (Feb 6, 2007)

GaaraFromTheHood said:


> I say if its the whole universe, then everybody counts, unless the thread starter specifies the rules.
> 
> 
> 
> They can have all the genjutsu they want. That is part of their offense (that would negate tsukiyomi which would be one of the biggest weapons for narutoverse...) It wont make a difference, the avatars destroy them.



wtf, Avatar wouldnt destory anyone if Genjutsus were used. They could be in a Genjutsu before the battle even begins, and considering its the Naruto Universe that is one hell of a Genjutsu combination.


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## Graham Aker (Feb 6, 2007)

> wtf, Avatar wouldnt destory anyone if Genjutsus were used. They could be in a Genjutsu before the battle even begins, and considering its the Naruto Universe that is one hell of a Genjutsu combination.


why would they be in a genjutsu before the battle begins? oh thats right, becasue they cant win if they did it when the battle begins right?
regardless, if one has a strong will, they can resist the Genjutsu...so Avatverse still wins even if Narutoverse cheats...



> Their "armies" of benders consist of a handful of benders who are mooks at best. The most powerful people BY FAR are the Avatar and co. The only one who comes close to matching them is Bumi. Everyone else is a bunch of scrubs. The Narutoverse easily outclasses them in speed. A chuunin can probably outspeed even Aang.


Avatarverse mooks >>> Narutoverse mooks(academy student, genin, chounin and most jounin)
and saying Bumi is the one that matches closely to Avatar's gang clearly means you havent seen that many episodes...Azula's gang, Iroh are stronger than Avatar's gang.
speed issue, I think they're pretty much even...not counting no weights/Gates Lee, Gates Gai, postTS Sasuke and not counting the Avatars...
Aang would run laps around the Sannin...wind enhanced run FTW!!!



> I say if its the whole universe, then everybody counts, unless the thread starter specifies the rules.


then Avatarverse CURBSTOMPS Narutoverse...Avatar Kyoshi can move huge land masses by herself with little effort...and Roku, although has never shown to zap anyone with lightning but going by the logic that hes the Avatar and thus, better than Azula and Iroh, he zaps everyone in Narutoverse with a strong voltage of lightning...
the Avatar from the water tribe can also just as easily freeze everyone in Narutoverse...



> They can have all the genjutsu they want. That is part of their offense (that would negate tsukiyomi which would be one of the biggest weapons for narutoverse...) It wont make a difference, the avatars destroy them.


yeah...I guess...Genjutsu cost chakra afterall...and there are only a handful of people who can do Genjutsu right...


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## Limit_Tester (Feb 6, 2007)

Avatar and Co. includes their enemies... Speed isn't even close. Have you seen Naruto recently? Avatarverse is about human speed, with the exception of Aang and company recently, who just recently demonstrated super-human speed.


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## Finn Mac Cool (Feb 6, 2007)

Something that looks like it needs clarified:  they're called "Hidden Villages" but it's pretty obvious that they're at the very least moderately sized cities.  Consider the fact that it took many years before Naruto or Sakura learned about the Uchiha Clan massacre.  I realize ninjas like to keep things secret, but, unless you've got at least a few thousand people to get lost in, the murder of dozens of people (particularly of a prominent family) is going to be impossible to keep secret.  Combine that with the size Konoha has shown in aerial shots, and I'd say there have to be at least 5000 people in that "village" (what percentage of the population is made up of ninjas is impossible to tell).  That's one Hidden Village (albeit probably the largest); there are four other main ones, and an unknown number of smaller ones.  All told, I see no reason to assume that benders dwarf ninjas in numbers.

I'd also like to say that including all people who've ever lived in each universe is problematic, since our knowledge of the past can be very limited.  Afterall, aside from widespread war, we know virtually nothing about the Naruto Universe prior to 60 years ago.

I think the fact that Naruto characters have superhuman strength, speed, and endurance to back up their jutsus is a huge advantage.  When a ninja and a bender fight, the ninja will have a much greater ability to dodge attacks, initiate attacks quickly, and keep going after being injured.  I mean, in the Forest of Death even _Sakura_ managed to get stabbed with several knives and not only keep fighting, but survive for three days in the woods with only minor medical care and then do pretty well in a duel against Ino.


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## Graham Aker (Feb 6, 2007)

> Avatar and Co. includes their enemies... Speed isn't even close. Have you seen Naruto recently? Avatarverse is about human speed, with the exception of Aang and company recently, who just recently demonstrated super-human speed.





> I think the fact that Naruto characters have superhuman strength, speed, and endurance to back up their jutsus is a huge advantage. When a ninja and a bender fight, the ninja will have a much greater ability to dodge attacks, initiate attacks quickly, and keep going after being injured. I mean, in the Forest of Death even Sakura managed to get stabbed with several knives and not only keep fighting, but survive for three days in the woods with only minor medical care and then do pretty well in a duel against Ino.


doesnt really matter who is fast and who isnt...Avatarverse fight with their bending, they throw water, fire, rock and air(Aang) at Narutoverse and they get pwnd...
and the Avatar State Aang would massacre them...

and Im currently in chapter 340 of the Naruto manga, so yes I have seen it Naruto recently...well, the recent chapter...aye...


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## Limit_Tester (Feb 7, 2007)

You have absolutely no conception of the power differences between the verses.


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## Graham Aker (Feb 7, 2007)

> You have absolutely no conception of the power differences between the verses.


 

riiiight


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## Shinkirou (Feb 7, 2007)

If this really is counting all the past avatars then avatarverse wins in a curbstomp. We're talking hundreds, maybe thousands of people weilding the power of an avatar state Aang. All of which individually can cause huge natural disasters, combined they'd be virtually unstoppable, atleast when placed in the narutoverse.


----------



## Finn Mac Cool (Feb 7, 2007)

theSpectre said:


> doesnt really matter who is fast and who isnt...Avatarverse fight with their bending, they throw water, fire, rock and air(Aang) at Narutoverse and they get pwnd...
> and the Avatar State Aang would massacre them...
> 
> and Im currently in chapter 340 of the Naruto manga, so yes I have seen it Naruto recently...well, the recent chapter...aye...



But speed determines how fast they can perform bending feats and react to attacks from the Narutoverse.

Also you're acting like the Narutoverse can't just hurl water, fire, rock, and air right back at them, and with greater power and precision.  Show me an Earthbender who can lift enough sand into the air to drown an entire city.  Show me a Firebender who can create a ball of fire the size of a small house.  Show me a Waterbender who can spew a tidal wave out of their mouth or create clones of themselves out of water.  Show me an Airbender you can level an entire forest or create a twenty foot deep crater in the ground with one attack.


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 7, 2007)

> why would they be in a genjutsu before the battle begins? oh thats right, becasue they cant win if they did it when the battle begins right?
> regardless, if one has a strong will, they can resist the Genjutsu...so Avatverse still wins even if Narutoverse cheats...



I said they could be in a Genjutsu before the battle begins and not even know it, and they can use Genjutsu at any time, someone like Itachi could probably take half of them out with his Genjutus alone oh and no strong will doesnt help much to resist Genjutsu, you need to either counter it will pain, which the Avataruniverse does not know, or you need to relase enough energy to unblance the Genjutsu. Unless you have the Sharingan which can see through Genjutsu. Genjutsu is also not cheating, its an ablity in the Naruto universe, going bu your logic then I can call bending cheating. 

Plus now that I think about Naruto characters are much faster and could probably speed blitz them.


----------



## Sayuki (Feb 7, 2007)

Hmm, Naruto vs. Ang...

"Sexy no Jutsu!"

Ang falls to the ground with a nose bleed.. Enough said (tee hee).


----------



## Limit_Tester (Feb 7, 2007)

Sao Sakura said:


> Hmm, Naruto vs. Ang...
> 
> "Sexy no Jutsu!"
> 
> Ang falls to the ground with a nose bleed.. Enough said (tee hee).



I'd go with the Katara version.


----------



## Sayuki (Feb 22, 2007)

Perhaps, but the Sayaka version is better ^_^


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 22, 2007)

Superrazien said:


> Genjutsu is also not cheating, its an ablity in the Naruto universe, going bu your logic then I can call bending cheating.



Narutoverse can't use genjutsu on Avatarverse.  People who reside in Avatarverse have no chakra, so genjutsu won't affect them.  Bending does not require your opponent to have any type of energy at all, it requires your energy.  How do you figure a technique which is dependant on your opponent is the same as a technique in which your opponent doesn't matter?  People from Avatar don't come from Narutoverse, so they don't have chakra.  It's as simple as that.  If bending required an opponents energy (or even an opponent at all), then you could say they couldn't use bending.  Unfortunately for you, bending doesn't work like that.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 22, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Avatar and Co. includes their enemies... Speed isn't even close. Have you seen Naruto recently? Avatarverse is about human speed, with the exception of Aang and company recently, who just recently demonstrated super-human speed.



*I read the manga*. Naruto is up on them in speed, not by a giant margin.

And Avatars level characters could wipe out whole countries. No one has reached that lvl of power in Naruto.


----------



## Limit_Tester (Feb 22, 2007)

Indignation said:


> *I read the manga*. Naruto is up on them in speed, not by a giant margin.
> 
> And Avatars level characters could wipe out whole countries. No one has reached that lvl of power in Naruto.



Wait... you think that Aang could destroy a country? And what has anyone in Avatarverse shown in terms of speed that comes close to even a genin?


----------



## Shinkirou (Feb 22, 2007)

Well, they could theoretically destroy a country by setting off a chain reaction of natural disasters, but its unlikely. Other than that, the avatars are limited to being only city destroyers.


----------



## TheGreenSamurai78 (Feb 23, 2007)

Vance said:


> Avatar is the most retarded thing in the whole. I mean seriously, Ang is a friggin stupid bald idiot. Naruto the character. (Which I think is a stupid dickwad) could easily kill him. I mean, hell, Gaara would finish a whoole bunch of avatar characters, not to mention Gai and his Gates.



Is that so? Well where were you when Aang was whooping Naruto's ass in one of my previous threads?

Go ahead and lay down the law.




> You have absolutely no conception of the power differences between the verses.



Source
^^Has there ever been anyone from Naruto who can do this?

Source
^^Has there been anyone from Naruto who can lift objects of that mass?

Source
^^Did I miss apart from Naruto were ninjas could cut metal ships in half?

Link removed
Link removed
^^Can Ninjas rip and bend metal?

Link removed
^^Does Kohana have this type of tech.?

Link removed
^^I would like to see a ninja village break through this.


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 23, 2007)

jasononline said:


> Narutoverse can't use genjutsu on Avatarverse.  People who reside in Avatarverse have no chakra, so genjutsu won't affect them.  Bending does not require your opponent to have any type of energy at all, it requires your energy.  How do you figure a technique which is dependant on your opponent is the same as a technique in which your opponent doesn't matter?  People from Avatar don't come from Narutoverse, so they don't have chakra.  It's as simple as that.  If bending required an opponents energy (or even an opponent at all), then you could say they couldn't use bending.  Unfortunately for you, bending doesn't work like that.



I guess you fail to see though Chakra is just another word for Chi, Ki, Spirit Power, ect.. which all liveing beings have, so yes Genjutsu will work, not like Genjutsu is needed though. Gai, Sasuke, Lee, Kakashi, and Naruto with Kybuui Chakra will speed blitz everyone, and Gaara will sink everyone underground.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Wait... you think that Aang could destroy a country? And what has anyone in Avatarverse shown in terms of speed that comes close to even a genin?



All countries aren't the same size. And the genin was slow, with the exception of Sasuke and Rock Lee.


----------



## shadowrocks17 (Feb 23, 2007)

Naruto has Sasuke and Garra as Tanks, But Avatar has Toph and Kiyoshi as Tanks.

It could go either way if Gaara is on a sand feild or Toph is on a earth like Field.

For Favs I go with Avatar because Toph is the best thing ever, better than any naruto character, better than Hinata.


----------



## Suzumebachi (Feb 23, 2007)

> source
> ^^I would like to see a ninja village break through this.



They could just...go over it. Or blow it up. Deidara's got the bombs.


> source
> ^^Does Kohana have this type of tech.?



Doesn't matter. Many justu that can simply knock it over.




> source
> source
> ^^Can Ninjas rip and bend metal?



Can any other earthbender?


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> They could just...go over it. Or blow it up. Deidara's got the bombs.
> Name



They are getting crushed if they try that. And name a justu that break into 
Ba Sing Se.


Suzumebachi said:


> Doesn't matter. Many justu that can simply knock it over.



Name the justu that can do that.


----------



## Suzumebachi (Feb 23, 2007)

> They are getting crushed if they try that. And name a justu that break into
> Ba Sing Se.



Deidara's 18. -__- I thought you read the manga.


> Name the justu that can do that.



Boss Summon. Kisame's Baku Suishouha. Chouji and dad with Multi Size jutsu. Deidara bombs.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> Deidara's 18. -__- I thought you read the manga.
> 
> 
> Boss Summon. Kisame's Baku Suishouha. Chouji and dad with Multi Size jutsu. Deidara bombs.



You have no idea how thick the wall are, do you? Deidara's 18 won't cut it. 

Gama can't grab things well. the other is a slug. Manda might be able to do it. I think it's too heavy for Chouji or his pappy to lift

Number 18 wasn't that impressive.


----------



## Chocochip (Feb 23, 2007)

avatar verse is seriously to slow, i think gama himself can take out the fire nation or water himself, nothin can really harm him. katsuya and manda are tehre tooo. strongest beast we saw waws basically appa and a regular big snake would pown appa. kisame creating a lake jsut from spit owns anything katara did. only cahnce they have is aang going avatar state but then naruto can just go KN4 and rape him as well. people like the princess apprentince and any warrior is uselss. normal gennins ouwld be enough to kill them. rock lee can prolly kill aang, hes fast enough too.

maybe when avatar seriously gets some spe ed then we can talk.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

thegoodjae said:


> avatar verse is seriously to slow, i think gama himself can take out the fire nation or water himself, nothin can really harm him. katsuya and manda are tehre tooo. strongest beast we saw waws basically appa and a regular big snake would pown appa. kisame creating a lake jsut from spit owns anything katara did. only cahnce they have is aang going avatar state but then naruto can just go KN4 and rape him as well. people like the princess apprentince and any warrior is uselss. normal gennins ouwld be enough to kill them. rock lee can prolly kill aang, hes fast enough too.
> 
> maybe when avatar seriously gets some spe ed then we can talk.



No. Aang fought a sea dragon and a giant spirit monster among other things. You don't know what you are talking about.


----------



## Suzumebachi (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> You have no idea how thick the wall are, do you? Deidara's 18 won't cut it.
> 
> Gama can't grab things well. the other is a slug. Manda might be able to do it. I think it's too heavy for Chouji or his pappy to lift
> 
> Number 18 wasn't that impressive.



See how large Chouji is:


Katsuya is a slug with acid.

Bunta doesnt have to grab it. To knock it over, he'll push it, kick it, fire water balls at it and more.

And no, I have NO idea how thick the wall is, despite having seen the episode many times and there being a fucking picture of it on the other page.

And yes, 18 will tear the wall down. If it can level some city blocks, it can blast through that wall.

BTW, you arent suppose to be talking to me. I can get you in trouble for this.


----------



## Chocochip (Feb 23, 2007)

couldnt gaara just drown all the people, earthbenders wouldnt be able to use their hands or anyone so it would be jus kinda over.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> See how large Chouji is:
> 
> 
> Katsuya is a slug with acid.
> ...



18 didn't level anything. Gaara caught it.




And the drill is made completely out of steel. The slug's acid isn't burning through it.


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 23, 2007)

Superrazien said:


> I guess you fail to see though Chakra is just another word for Chi, Ki, Spirit Power, ect.. which all liveing beings have, so yes Genjutsu will work, not like Genjutsu is needed though. Gai, Sasuke, Lee, Kakashi, and Naruto with Kybuui Chakra will speed blitz everyone, and Gaara will sink everyone underground.



That's wrong.  Chakra is not the same thing as chi, or ki, or spirit force.  If you mean it is an energy living things have in their respective universes, then yes.  Other than that, no.  All living things in NARUTOVERSE have chakra.  The rules for one universe do not apply to all other universe.  This has been gone over many times in many threads.  So no, genjutsu won't work.  I agree though, Naruto does have the speed advantage.  Though, having great speed won't help them when they are trapped in a block of ice or rock.


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 23, 2007)

jasononline said:


> That's wrong.  Chakra is not the same thing as chi, or ki, or spirit force.  If you mean it is an energy living things have in their respective universes, then yes.  Other than that, no.  All living things in NARUTOVERSE have chakra.  The rules for one universe do not apply to all other universe.  This has been gone over many times in many threads.  So no, genjutsu won't work.  I agree though, Naruto does have the speed advantage.  Though, having great speed won't help them when they are trapped in a block of ice or rock.



Yes Chakra is the same thing as Ki, Chi, ect. According to your logic to if one thing in one universe doesnt apply to another then Avatar Universe cant bend as bending is only allowed in their universe. Naruto universe can only control elements with Chakra so you must assume this takes place in a netural universe where the Avatar Universe can bend and Chakra exsists. Or else how can the battle take place. But as for the speed thing, how would one put someone in a block of ice if there dead before they can do so?


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Superrazien said:


> Yes Chakra is the same thing as Ki, Chi, ect. According to your logic to if one thing in one universe doesnt apply to another then Avatar Universe cant bend as bending is only allowed in their universe. Naruto universe can only control elements with Chakra so you must assume this takes place in a netural universe where the Avatar Universe can bend and Chakra exsists. Or else how can the battle take place. But as for the speed thing, how would one put someone in a block of ice if there dead before they can do so?



No it isn't. Naruto's chakra isn't the same as Avatar chi. And everyone in Narutoverse does not have exceptional speed.


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 23, 2007)

I never said they weren't in a neutral universe.  I said that genjutsu won't work because people from Avatarverse don't have chakra.  It's as simple as that.  Someone who isn't from the universe where chakra exhists wouldn't have chakra.  How do you NOT understand that?  That is the way it always is.  Chakra is not the same as ki or chi.  You have no grounds to say that.  Just because they are energies that everyone in their respective universes have, that doesn't mean they are the same.


----------



## Hale (Feb 23, 2007)

Is this really a thread? Is there where people realistically put the naruto verse's power, We have them competing with benders? Honestly Gai pretty much solo most of this verse


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Hale said:


> Is this really a thread? Is there where people realistically put the naruto verse's power, We have them competing with benders? Honestly Gai pretty much solo most of this verse



How does he do this? I want to know what makes you think that.


----------



## Shinkirou (Feb 23, 2007)

For the genjutsu thing, no it wouldn't work on anyone frome the Avatarverse, since the chi or whatever they have isn't regulated through the same system and doesn't act in the same manner as the chakra of the Narutoverse.


----------



## Halcyon Days (Feb 23, 2007)

naruto verse wins.. but

base aang > base Naruto
Kyuubi naruto > Avatar state Aang


----------



## Hale (Feb 23, 2007)

> How does he do this? I want to know what makes you think that.


 Outside of avatar state who is fast enough to see any of gai's attacks muchless react to them?


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Hale said:


> Outside of avatar state who is fast enough to see any of gai's attacks muchless react to them?




You are saying Gai can kill a whole world. A avatar world. Gai is human, he gets tired.


----------



## Hale (Feb 23, 2007)

> Naruto sucks, Avatarverse would wtfpwn them just cause it don't revovle around a gay little blonde kid trying to save his emo best friend from the MJ wannabe who touches him at night.


Saying naruto sucks, shouldn't even be allowed on a naruto forum lol, but the avatarverse would not "wtfpwn them" just because naruto wants to save his friend


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 23, 2007)

jasononline said:


> I never said they weren't in a neutral universe.  I said that genjutsu won't work because people from Avatarverse don't have chakra.  It's as simple as that.  Someone who isn't from the universe where chakra exhists wouldn't have chakra.  How do you NOT understand that?  That is the way it always is.  Chakra is not the same as ki or chi.  You have no grounds to say that.  Just because they are energies that everyone in their respective universes have, that doesn't mean they are the same.



Ok First off Avatar does use Chakra


Also Avatar needs to open his Chakras to fully acess control of his Avarar State.

and Chakra is your life force energy, its from the Hinduism and some Asian Cultures and which even refers to the Chakra gates. KI, and Chi are the same thing, Life Force Energy or Spiritual Energy. So I would wager Genjutsus will work, but it doesnt matter Genjutsu is not needed to win.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Superrazien said:


> Ok First off Avatar does use Chakra
> 
> 
> Also Avatar needs to open his Chakras to fully acess control of his Avarar State.
> ...



Gonna shut you down. Avatar doesn't have Chakra circulatory systems. So you are wrong.


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> Gonna shut you down. Avatar doesn't have Chakra circulatory systems. So you are wrong.



How they hell do they use Chakra, where is it processed their ass or something?


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Superrazien said:


> How they hell do they use Chakra, where is it processed their ass or something?



You can't apply the laws of one fictionverse to another.


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> You can't apply the laws of one fictionverse to another.



you avoided the question, where do they process their chakra?


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Superrazien said:


> you avoided the question, where do they process their chakra?



That was the answer. They do not need a system to control chi. Youtube removed the episodes.

But watch episodes, Avatar 219 The Guru & 220 The Crossroads of Destiny


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> That was the answer. They do not need a system to control chi. Youtube removed the episodes.
> 
> But watch episodes, Avatar 219 The Guru & 220 The Crossroads of Destiny



Oh well regaurdless Narutoverse will win even without Genjutsu.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Superrazien said:


> Oh well regaurdless Narutoverse will win even without Genjutsu.



How is that?  Only a few shinobi has speed like Gai, Rock Lee, Sasuke and Kakashi.

So speed isn't that much of a issue.


----------



## Suzumebachi (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> 18 didn't level anything. Gaara caught it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're right. Gaara caught it. Because it didnt destroy anything, I guess that means it cant.

Well, several Avatar characters never killed anyone, so that must mean they cant by your logic.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> You're right. Gaara caught it. Because it didnt destroy anything, I guess that means it cant.
> 
> Well, several Avatar characters never killed anyone, so that must mean they cant by your logic.



I was correcting you.


----------



## Suzumebachi (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> I was correcting you.



And for some reason you still believe that Deidara cant blast through the Ba Sing Se wall.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> And for some reason you still believe that Deidara cant blast through the Ba Sing Se wall.



Look at the size of the tanks compared to the drill, and in my pic you see how thick the wall really is.


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Suzumebachi (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> Look at the size of the tanks compared to the drill, and in my pic you see how thick the wall really is.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



And for some reason you still believe that Deidara cant blast through the Ba Sing Se wall...


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> And for some reason you still believe that Deidara cant blast through the Ba Sing Se wall...



The explosion is not enough to take the wall down, to put it simple.


----------



## Noctrine (Feb 23, 2007)

Well, the Avatar people could potentially destroy them. But Its Naruto for the win.

Even with all the elements, no one from the Avatar Universe really possess general combat skills akin to the ninja people. (A few maybe but not enough)

And you see how well the benders handle fighting martial artists.

Then when you add all the over intelligent over the top tactics, genjutsu, and all that other stuff Naruto Universe takes it easily.


----------



## Suzumebachi (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> The explosion is not enough to take the wall down, to put it simple.



Not really.



Thats a really big explosion.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Noctrine said:


> Well, the Avatar people could potentially destroy them. But Its Naruto for the win.
> 
> Even with all the elements, no one from the Avatar Universe really possess general combat skills akin to the ninja people. (A few maybe but not enough)
> 
> ...



That's Katara vs Ty Lee. Ty Lee is anti Bender, and Katara had improved since then.  A lot of benders know martial arts. Zuko, Iroh, Zaho,. And There are smart people in Avatar too.

@Suzu, The PoV of the wall in that pic is very far away. and the PoV of that explosion is very close up. It wouldn't knock it down.


----------



## Suzumebachi (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> That's Katara vs Ty Lee. Ty Lee is anti Bender, and Katara had improved since then.  A lot of benders know martial arts. Zuko, Iroh, Zaho,. And There are smart people in Avatar too.



Naruto's martial arts are so much better than Avatar's that its ridiculous.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> Naruto's martial arts are so much better than Avatar's that its ridiculous.



That's your opinion.


----------



## Suzumebachi (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> That's your opinion.



Prove me wrong you mindless Avatar fanboy.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> Prove me wrong you mindless Avatar fanboy.



There there, suzu. No need for harsh words. There is no way and no point to prove one fictional martial art is better than the other.


----------



## Art of Run (Feb 23, 2007)

GOLDEN BYAKUGAM


----------



## Suzumebachi (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> There there, suzu. No need for harsh words. There is no way and no point to prove one fictional martial art is better than the other.




You're right. There is no point in proving which universe has stronger martial artists in a debate over which universe is stronger.

Totally irrelevant.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> You're right. There is no point in proving which universe has stronger martial artists in a debate over which universe is stronger.
> 
> Totally irrelevant.



You said better, not stronger. Bending is stronger than any marital art in Naruto.

Tell me when someone in Naruto does anything near erupting volcanoes and splitting landmasses with their martial art.


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> How is that?  Only a few shinobi has speed like Gai, Rock Lee, Sasuke and Kakashi.
> 
> So speed isn't that much of a issue.



Well you forgot Kybuui Chakra Naruto. Anyways though Sninobi can speed blitz a good portion and its not like all they have is speed, Kakashi has MS, Itachi has God of the Sun, and their are many close to immortal Naruto characters, unless there is someone in Avatarverse smarter than Shikamaru which I havent seen I dont see anyone beating Hidan. Gaara could sink them all, and there are countless Shinobe who's fully power hasnt even been displayed Ex. Itachi, Kisame, Zetzu, Tobi, AL, The Chick from AS, Jiraiya, The 4th Hokage, Uchiha Madara ect. Also dont forget these are jut the power houses in Naruto, in a universe battle all are inculded which includes all the countries Ninjas and Ninjas use the art of stealth so I doubt this will be just a big clash of armies, Ninjas will pick off members of Avatarverse one by one.



> There there, suzu. No need for harsh words. There is no way and no point to prove one fictional martial art is better than the other.



Actually for Naruto it seems the main Martial Art used is Gong Fu which is one of the best Martial Arts styles around. Bruce Lee took Gong Fu.


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> How is that?  Only a few shinobi has speed like Gai, Rock Lee, Sasuke and Kakashi.
> 
> So speed isn't that much of a issue.



Well you forgot Kybuui Chakra Naruto. Anyways though they can speed blitz a good portion and its not like all they have is speed, Kakashi has MS, Itachi has God of the Sun, and their are many close to immortal Naruto characters, unless there is someone in Avatarverse smarter than Shikamaru which I havent seen I dont see anyone beating Hidan. Gaara could sink them all, and there are countless Shinobe who's fully power hasnt even been displayed Ex. Itachi, Kisame, Zetzu, Tobi, AL, The Chick from AS, Jiraiya, The 4th Hokage, Uchiha Madara ect. Also dont forget these are jut the power houses in Naruto, in a universe battle all are inculded which includes all the countries Ninjas and Ninjas use the art of stealth so I doubt this will be just a big clash of armies, Ninjas will pick off members of Avatarverse one by one.



> There there, suzu. No need for harsh words. There is no way and no point to prove one fictional martial art is better than the other.



Actually for Naruto it seems the main Martial Art used is Gong Fu which is one of the best Martial Arts styles around. Bruce Lee took Gong Fu.


----------



## Suzumebachi (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> You said better, not stronger. Bending is stronger than any marital art in Naruto.
> 
> Tell me when someone in Naruto does anything near erupting volcanoes and splitting landmasses with their martial art.



Erupting volcanos is not martial arts. Its bending elements. 


You're so bad at this.


----------



## rasengan naruto (Feb 23, 2007)

the avatar universe will crush the naruto universe unless akatsuki battle them..


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> Erupting volcanos is not martial arts. Its bending elements.
> 
> 
> You're so bad at this.



martial art
n.
Any of several Asian arts of combat or self-defense, such as aikido, karate, judo, or tae kwon do, usually practiced as sport. Often used in the plural.

Bending fits this.


----------



## Kai (Feb 23, 2007)

I don't see Akatsuki getting defeated.

Manda, Gamabunta, Katsuyu, and other snakes, toads, + slugs join the gangbanging party.

The only one I see standing a chance is Aang in the Avatar state, but he would be overwhelmed by sheer numbers.


----------



## ~Shin~ (Feb 23, 2007)

You can easily kill Avatar Aang when he's about to transform. The same way Azula did it


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Space said:


> I don't see Akatsuki getting defeated.
> 
> Manda, Gamabunta, Katsuyu, and other snakes, toads, + slugs join the gangbanging party.
> 
> The only one I see standing a chance is Aang in the Avatar state, but he would be overwhelmed by sheer numbers.



You forget the sheer numbers of Avatar verse. And Akatsuki blows so far. People are also underrating the intelligence of Avaratverse. Sokka is at least equal to Shikamaru. Iroh is way smarter than most than most Shinobi.

 Zuko is more of a ninja than most in Narutoverse.


----------



## Suzumebachi (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> martial art
> n.
> Any of several Asian arts of combat or self-defense, such as aikido, karate, judo, or tae kwon do, usually practiced as sport. Often used in the plural.
> 
> Bending fits this.



First of all, there is no Asia in Avatarverse.

Second of all, martial art can be applied to any form of combat using body skills, including boxing and capoeira and weapon skills, but NOT to magically throwing water at people. 

Its just not accurate for people to say that martial arts are just asian fighting styles.



> Sokka is at least equal to Shikamaru



Kill yourself.  You are such a fanboy.


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 23, 2007)

> Kill yourself. You are such a fanboy.



Little Extreme man remember its just a VS topic.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> First of all, there is no Asia in Avatarverse.
> 
> Second of all, martial art can be applied to any form of combat using body skills, including boxing and capoeira and weapon skills, but NOT to magically throwing water at people.
> 
> ...



You love being difficult. Martial arts is simply the skill used to fight or kill. It's pointless to argue about fictional arts.

Both Naruto and Avatar arts was based and influenced off of Asian martial arts. And Sokka's Brain took down the Drill. Infact, I think Sokka is smarter from his list of bigger accomplishments.


----------



## ~Shin~ (Feb 23, 2007)

How is Sokka smarter than Shikamaru? Shikamaru has an IQ of over 200. That's beyond phenomenal. Sokka acts like a dumb idiot most of the times. I prefer to see him as a character for some humor


----------



## Suzumebachi (Feb 23, 2007)

Indignation said:


> You love being difficult. Martial arts is simply the skill used to fight or kill. It's pointless to argue about fictional arts.



If you think that the battledome is pointless, why do you post here all the time?

Go back to the Cafe where the love you so much.



Indignation said:


> Both Naruto and Avatar arts was based and influenced off of Asian martial arts. And Sokka's Brain took down the Drill. Infact, I think Sokka is smarter from his list of bigger accomplishments.



Do you really believe it would have taken someone with an IQ of 200 to figure out something like that? 

You're so easily impressed.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

~Shin~ said:


> How is Sokka smarter than Shikamaru? Shikamaru has an IQ of over 200. That's beyond phenomenal. Sokka acts like a dumb idiot most of the times. I prefer to see him as a character for some humor



We put up their their prep feats and Sokka comes out on top.



Suzumebachi said:


> If you think that the battledome is pointless, why do you post here all the time?
> 
> Go back to the Cafe where the love you so much.
> 
> ...



That isn't the only thing. Sokka figured out a system that alarms you when there is a gas leak, made battle strategies and other things.


----------



## ~Shin~ (Feb 23, 2007)

> We put up their their prep feats and Sokka comes out on top.



Not really. Shika is able to think quick on his feet and capable of creating genius plans. He was thinking quickly on his feet when he fought temari and Tayuya. In those fights he showed how strategic he can be and how he thinks multiple steps ahead of the opponent. And when he fought Hidan, he utilized his prep time very efficiently. He carefully lured hidan into his trap and was able to predict every move that Hidan was going to do. And on top of this, it was shown that Shika had an IQ of over 200 which I doubt sokka can top


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 23, 2007)

~Shin~ said:


> Not really. Shika is able to think quick on his feet and capable of creating genius plans. He was thinking quickly on his feet when he fought temari and Tayuya. In those fights he showed how strategic he can be and how he thinks multiple steps ahead of the opponent. And when he fought Hidan, he utilized his prep time very efficiently. He carefully lured hidan into his trap and was able to predict every move that Hidan was going to do. And on top of this, it was shown that Shika had an IQ of over 200 which I doubt sokka can top



Sokka worked with and figured out complected machines that he never found before.

Sokka and Shikamaru of the opposite of each other. Shika is masterful with planning,

Sokka can come up off a plan off the fly. Sokka was the one that figured out that the Solar eclipse nerfs the Firebenders 

From wiki cause my memory fails me.


> For an inhabitant of a mystical world, Sokka shows a remarkable proclivity towards science. He seems naturally adept at creating weapons out of practically anything at any time. He learned how to construct amateur explosives from his father, which he once used to simulate Firebending. In another instance, Sokka used trickery and optical illusions to help his sister Katara fake the ability to Earthbend. He has even worked with a fellow technologist, the Mechanist, to engineer a working hot air balloon and to develop a system that detects natural gas leaks with rotten eggs. Sokka also has a variety of weapons, and he is proficient in all of them.
> 
> As the only non-bender in Aang's group, Sokka is often overshadowed by the bending skills of his friends. However, it is usually Sokka who comes up with a plan for victory. His skills as a fighter have also noticeably improved as the series progresses, though it is usually his persistence rather than skill that often allows him to get a shot in against opponents of superior skill, such as Zuko in "The Avatar Returns" and Ty Lee, in "The Chase." Sokka employs the element of surprise in defeating larger enemies in "The Library" when he knocked out Wan Shi Tong by attacking him from above. In that particular encounter, Sokka's wit succeeded where Aang and Katara's bending failed. It was also Sokka who found out about a solar eclipse's ability to incapacitate firebenders and his idea to inform the Earth King in Ba Sing Se.


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 24, 2007)

> We put up their their prep feats and Sokka comes out on top.



Really because if memory serves me right Shikamaru beat an Immortal S Class Ninja (who could take out a huge chunk of the avatarverse himself) with prep time. Has Sokka done anything close to that? Not from what I've seen.


----------



## Shinkirou (Feb 24, 2007)

Hidan couldn't really take out that many people, not at once anyways. Without Kakuzu there to reattach body parts hes pretty fucked.


----------



## Hale (Feb 24, 2007)

> Hidan couldn't really take out that many people, not at once anyways. Without Kakuzu there to reattach body parts hes pretty fucked.


Who exactly is gonna sever his body parts? Who's gonna move fast enough to avoid his cermony jutsu? Earlier someone said gai couldn't solo a whole universe as well he'd get tired... Have you ever seen gai tired?


----------



## Kai (Feb 24, 2007)

Indignation said:


> You forget the sheer numbers of Avatar verse. And Akatsuki blows so far. People are also underrating the intelligence of Avaratverse. Iroh is way smarter than most than most Shinobi.


Yeah, I recall Iroh being a smart martial artist of some sort.
I'm sorry, but I just don't see the Avatarverse as many people. The Fire Nation obliterated lots of the word already, and lots of people we see aren't even benders.

Konoha can take this themselves, but if you want to add in past avatars as stated earlier, that would be a different scenario I suppose.



			
				Indignation said:
			
		

> Zuko is more of a ninja than most in Narutoverse.


He only has fire, and hasn't displayed any superhuman kind of speed. Post Sakura could take him with ease.



			
				Indignation said:
			
		

> Sokka is at least equal to Shikamaru


Tell me.. what chapter have you read up to..? Sokka is a total nutjob and is the comic relief of the show, the only similarity he has with Shikamaru is hair.


----------



## Shinkirou (Feb 24, 2007)

> Who exactly is gonna sever his body parts? Who's gonna move fast enough to avoid his cermony jutsu? Earlier someone said gai couldn't solo a whole universe as well he'd get tired... Have you ever seen gai tired?



Waterbenders can use water to cut oddly enough. In the last episode of season 2 in the fight with Azula, Katara sent out a small vertical wave of water which Azula barely dodged but not without having some of her hair cleanly cutting off. Or hell, they could just make a blade of Ice or an earth bender could just do like Shikamaru and bury him several meters down into the ground.

Also, with Gai, just because he hasn't been shown tired doesn't mean he doesn't get tired. Besides its not really like hes done anything to get tired in the first place.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 24, 2007)

Space said:


> Yeah, I recall Iroh being a smart martial artist of some sort.
> I'm sorry, but I just don't see the Avatarverse as many people. The Fire Nation obliterated lots of the word already, and lots of people we see aren't even benders.
> 
> Konoha can take this themselves, but if you want to add in past avatars as stated earlier, that would be a different scenario I suppose.
> ...



You got that wrong. I posted what Sokka did. Zuko is also a swordsman and skilled with stealth.


You don't know Avatar.


----------



## Gunners (Feb 24, 2007)

The Narutoverse would win this match up.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 24, 2007)

Kirin said:


> The Narutoverse would win this match up.



Only because People are heavily underestimating Avatar. 



> He only has fire, and hasn't displayed any superhuman kind of speed. Post Sakura could take him with ease.





> Sokka is a total nutjob and is the comic relief of the show, the only similarity he has with Shikamaru is hair.



Anybody who believes this know nothing about Avatar.



> For an inhabitant of a mystical world, Sokka shows a remarkable proclivity towards science. He seems naturally adept at creating weapons out of practically anything at any time. He learned how to construct amateur explosives from his father, which he once used to simulate Firebending. In another instance, Sokka used trickery and optical illusions to help his sister Katara fake the ability to Earthbend. He has even worked with a fellow technologist, the Mechanist, to engineer a working hot air balloon and to develop a system that detects natural gas leaks with rotten eggs. Sokka also has a variety of weapons, and he is proficient in all of them.
> 
> As the only non-bender in Aang's group, Sokka is often overshadowed by the bending skills of his friends. However, it is usually Sokka who comes up with a plan for victory. His skills as a fighter have also noticeably improved as the series progresses, though it is usually his persistence rather than skill that often allows him to get a shot in against opponents of superior skill, such as Zuko in "The Avatar Returns" and Ty Lee, in "The Chase." Sokka employs the element of surprise in defeating larger enemies in "The Library" when he knocked out Wan Shi Tong by attacking him from above. In that particular encounter, Sokka's wit succeeded where Aang and Katara's bending failed. It was also Sokka who found out about a solar eclipse's ability to incapacitate firebenders and his idea to inform the Earth King in Ba Sing Se.



Read again. Sokka did this?


----------



## Kai (Feb 24, 2007)

Indignation said:


> You got that wrong. I posted what Sokka did. Zuko is also a swordsman and skilled with stealth.
> 
> 
> You don't know Avatar.



Apart from the fire, he's not superhuman. Ninjas are stealthier than Zuko, stealth is a property shinobi learn about when they are in the academy.

Avatarverse is overwhelmed. 95% of the people in Naruto know how to fight whether its their occupations as ninjas, or bandits, swordsmen, etc.

Lots of people in the Avatarverse are at markets, with that one idiot who gets his cabbages or whatever stampeded upon every time.
The point is that Avatar doesn't have enough fighters to support them. 
The Narutoverse would be fighting 4 seperate continents in which 1 is empty and most would be firebenders. Get the Mizu Village + Kisame in there and they're pretty much set.

Edit: Well, Sokka stood no chance against Tai Li. Neji can utilize his techniques in a similar manner, and Sokka is down in a matter of seconds, same with Katara.

You're highly overestimating Avatar, I've seen most of the episodes. The Narutoverse is much more deadly.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 24, 2007)

Space said:


> Apart from the fire, he's not superhuman. Ninjas are stealthier than Zuko, stealth is a property shinobi learn about when they are in the academy.
> 
> Avatarverse is overwhelmed. 95% of the people in Naruto know how to fight whether its their occupations as ninjas, or bandits, swordsmen, etc.
> 
> ...



Wrong again. Avatar has armies. You have any idea how big a army is? I guess not. If you did, you would not be making this post.


----------



## Kai (Feb 24, 2007)

Indignation said:


> Wrong again. *Fire Nation* has armies. You have any idea how big a army is? I guess not. If you did, you would not be making this post.



Fixed that for you. You saw what the Northern Water Tribe could muster with their benders didn't you?  Probably a hundred benders at best.

Then we have the Earth Kingdom which is also a big city. Azula who looks like a 15 year old is basically in charge of the entire place. 

Narutoverse has thousands of skilled shinobi waiting to pounce on the Avatarverse. Instead of saying I shouldn't be posting, make an argument supporting how the Avatarverse would be victorious because there are quite a few people in this thread that aren't seeing it.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 24, 2007)

Space said:


> Fixed that for you. You saw what the Northern Water Tribe could muster with their benders didn't you?  Probably a hundred benders at best.
> 
> Then we have the Earth Kingdom which is also a big city. Azula who looks like a 15 year old is basically in charge of the entire place.
> 
> Narutoverse has thousands of skilled shinobi waiting to pounce on the Avatarverse. Instead of saying I shouldn't be posting, make an argument supporting how the Avatarverse would be victorious because there are quite a few people in this thread that aren't seeing it.



Wrong again. Earth Nation has a army. You know nothing about Avatar. Narutoverse has nothing near that number, stop inflating that number. Azula is a genius, so her age is doesn't matter


----------



## Gunners (Feb 24, 2007)

> Only because People are heavily underestimating Avatar.


I am not heavily underestimating the Avatarverse. I realise what they are capable of and I realise what the Narutoverse is capable of too. From that I give the victory too the Narutoverse.


----------



## Kai (Feb 24, 2007)

Indignation said:


> Wrong again. Earth Nation has a army. You know nothing about Avatar. Narutoverse has nothing near that number, stop inflating that number. Azula is a genius, so her age is doesn't matter



You're labeled as a biased fanboy if you can't produce an argument to support your decision.

I've seen the Avatar episodes, and last I checked you are currently in the process of reading Naruto. Fair judgement, eh?


----------



## Kagutsuchi (Feb 24, 2007)

Yondaime can solo this seriously.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 24, 2007)

Space said:


> You're labeled as a biased fanboy if you can't produce an argument to support your decision.
> 
> I've seen the Avatar episodes, and last I checked you are currently in the process of reading Naruto. Fair judgement, eh?



I'm waiting for the next chapter. I'm tired of people interrogating me.  If you think Sokka is nothing more than xomic relief then you don't know Avatar. 


> For an inhabitant of a mystical world, Sokka shows a remarkable proclivity towards science. He seems naturally adept at creating weapons out of practically anything at any time. He learned how to construct amateur explosives from his father, which he once used to simulate Firebending. In another instance, Sokka used trickery and optical illusions to help his sister Katara fake the ability to Earthbend. He has even worked with a fellow technologist, the Mechanist, to engineer a working hot air balloon and to develop a system that detects natural gas leaks with rotten eggs. Sokka also has a variety of weapons, and he is proficient in all of them.
> 
> As the only non-bender in Aang's group, Sokka is often overshadowed by the bending skills of his friends. However, it is usually Sokka who comes up with a plan for victory. His skills as a fighter have also noticeably improved as the series progresses, though it is usually his persistence rather than skill that often allows him to get a shot in against opponents of superior skill, such as Zuko in "The Avatar Returns" and Ty Lee, in "The Chase." Sokka employs the element of surprise in defeating larger enemies in "The Library" when he knocked out Wan Shi Tong by attacking him from above. In that particular encounter, Sokka's wit succeeded where Aang and Katara's bending failed. It was also Sokka who found out about a solar eclipse's ability to incapacitate firebenders and his idea to inform the Earth King in Ba Sing Se.



Stealth is seldom used in Naruto. When was the last time Someone used Stealth in Naruto. Read it this time and tell me if Shika can do any of that. The nin villages are small and not everyone is a shinobi. you telling me the ramen girl is a shinobi?



> Yondaime can solo this seriously.



No he can't.


----------



## Kai (Feb 24, 2007)

Indignation said:


> I'm waiting for the next chapter. I'm tired of people interrogating me.  If you think Sokka is nothing more than xomic relief then you don't know Avatar.


I know plenty about Avatar, and Sokka becomes intelligent when he really needs to. It's ridiculous to think that his intelligence is on par with Shika, a guy who thought up about 6-7 strategies *a second* against Temari.
But hell, this isnt about 1 v 1, Sokka won't do much against frikkin Chouji or other Anbu waiting to slit his throat.




			
				Indignation said:
			
		

> Stealth is seldom used in Naruto. When was the last time Someone used Stealth in Naruto. Read it this time and tell me if Shika can do any of that. The nin villages are small and not everyone is a shinobi. you telling me the ramen girl is a shinobi?



You are severely underestimating the Narutoverse. A basic ninja technique is the henge, and what if someone transforms into Fire Lord Ozai? He orders his entire Fire army to destroy the rest of the world. Game over.

And I exaggerated a 95%, meaning a great portion of the Narutoverse could fight skillfully, but alot of the Avatarverse can not.
Your big guns are Aang and Fire Nation which isn't enough.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 24, 2007)

Space said:


> I know plenty about Avatar, and Sokka becomes intelligent when he really needs to. It's ridiculous to think that his intelligence is on par with Shika, a guy who thought up about 6-7 strategies *a second* against Temari.
> But hell, this isnt about 1 v 1, Sokka won't do much against frikkin Chouji or other Anbu waiting to slit his throat.
> 
> 
> ...



You still haven't looked at my list. Sokka is smart. Sokka plans out complex battle plans. Narutoverse isn't big at all. Plus Avatarverse has spirit monsters and giant monsters. 

Avatarverse is bigger than Narutoverse. They only showed three villages so far.

Everyone knows that Oozai is waiting for Sozin's comet. The impostor would be found out.


----------



## Kai (Feb 24, 2007)

Indignation said:


> You still haven't looked at my list. Sokka is smart. Sokka *plans out *complex battle plans.



In all instances where he has prep time. He can't think on his feet. He got wtfpwned by Tai Li in a matter of seconds. Neji would seal his chi holes and throw a kunai through his heart. Sokka isnt a problem here.



			
				Indignation said:
			
		

> Narutoverse isn't big at all. Plus Avatarverse has spirit monsters and giant monsters.


Oh, great. Let's just add every squirrel, cat, aligator, and micro-organism the Narutoverse has to offer straight into the battle then.

Also, you can't just ignore the fact that there are all the boss summons of the Chinese Zodiac, along with all of the smaller summons.

Deidara's #18 would have been enough to light the Suna village, which could be compared to the Earth Kingdom in size.



			
				Indignation said:
			
		

> Avatarverse is bigger than Narutoverse. They only showed three villages so far.


I'm not so sure about this.



			
				Indignation said:
			
		

> Everyone knows that Oozai is waiting for Sozin's comet. *The impostor would be found out*.


How? They have no way of secretly communicating with each other, well as far as we know.


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 24, 2007)

Well, if you included summons, and all that, than Avatarverse get's it's spirits and monsters as well.  If you include past Hokages then they get past Avatars.  So if that is the situation, Narutoverse is destroyed.  If we don't count that, then it could go either way.


----------



## Gunners (Feb 24, 2007)

> Stealth is seldom used in Naruto. When was the last time Someone used Stealth in Naruto. Read it this time and tell me if Shika can do any of that. The nin villages are small and not everyone is a shinobi. you telling me the ramen girl is a shinobi?


 
  .
Oh and Shikamaru's initial attack on Hidan and Kakuzu was pure stealth.

So when was stealth last used in Naruto? 343 which is the latest chapter.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Feb 25, 2007)

lol @ nick kids shows competing with shonen manga. 

Peeps need to have their heads examined.


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 25, 2007)

jplaya2023 said:


> lol @ nick kids shows competing with shonen manga.
> 
> Peeps need to have their heads examined.



Tell me, what exactly can anyone from Naruto do to Koh?  What can they do to the Bear Spirit?  Or any of the other immortal spirits from Avatarverse.  If it was Narutoverse vs Avatarverse with no Bijuu's or summons or stuff like that, it might be a different story, but since it's not, even if the Avatar and company can't beat Narutoverse, the spirits from Avatarverse sure can.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Feb 25, 2007)

jasononline said:


> Tell me, what exactly can anyone from Naruto do to Koh?  What can they do to the Bear Spirit?  Or any of the other immortal spirits from Avatarverse.  If it was Narutoverse vs Avatarverse with no Bijuu's or summons or stuff like that, it might be a different story, but since it's not, even if the Avatar and company can't beat Narutoverse, the spirits from Avatarverse sure can.



ummm these people in naruto are immortal as well

naruto (with kyubi)
tsunade(can never die in battle)
kakuzu
hidan
al
oro
etc..etc..


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 25, 2007)

jplaya2023 said:


> ummm these people in naruto are immortal as well
> 
> naruto (with kyubi)



Naruto is human. He's the jailor of the Kyuubi.



> tsunade(can never die in battle)



But Soso Saisei shortens one's lifespans, and we saw its after-effects on Tsunade.

If she used it continuously enough, her lifespan would be so shortened she'd have days to minutes to even seconds to live, depending on how many times she'd used the technique.



> kakuzu



He's dead; killed by Kakashi.



> hidan



As a head without a body, stuck in a hole.



> al



Since where in the manga did it state the Akatsuki Leader to be immortal?



> oro
> etc..etc..



Orochimaru is as immortal as Kakuzu. Both prolong their lives with their respective methods -- Orochimaru possessing a new body every 3 years, and Kakuzu possessing 5 hearts.


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 25, 2007)

Actually, none of those people are immortal.  Oro just switches bodies, he can still be killed.  Kakuzu just has five hearts, if they are all destroyed so is he.  Naruto w/ Kyubi may be durable but he can still die, otherwise Kyubi wouldn't worry about Naruto dying.  Hidan can be incapacitated.


----------



## Finn Mac Cool (Feb 25, 2007)

jasononline said:


> Tell me, what exactly can anyone from Naruto do to Koh?  What can they do to the Bear Spirit?  Or any of the other immortal spirits from Avatarverse.  If it was Narutoverse vs Avatarverse with no Bijuu's or summons or stuff like that, it might be a different story, but since it's not, even if the Avatar and company can't beat Narutoverse, the spirits from Avatarverse sure can.



Are we forgetting the owl spirit that got taken down by Sokka jumping on him?  It seems as though Avatarverse spirits, at least when existing in the physical realm, must take on a physical form and all the resulting weaknesses.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 25, 2007)

Finn Mac Cool said:


> Are we forgetting the owl spirit that got taken down by Sokka jumping on him?  It seems as though Avatarverse spirits, at least when existing in the physical realm, must take on a physical form and all the resulting weaknesses.



He wasn't down for the count. You make it sound like Sokka beat him by jumping on him.


----------



## <# Link_2@@X #> (Feb 25, 2007)

*Avatar do what its possible to look like an anime... but it's not! But it's still a very cool cartoon and I love it.

But Naruto Universe is much better! *


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 25, 2007)

<# Link_2@@X #> said:


> *Avatar do what its possible to look like an anime... but it's not! But it's still a very cool cartoon and I love it.
> 
> But Naruto Universe is much better! *



Avatar is a original masterpiece.  

Naruto is getting to the point of being a cheesed up version of Dragonball.


----------



## Shinkirou (Feb 25, 2007)

> Avatar is a original masterpiece.
> 
> Naruto is getting to the point of being a cheesed up version of Dragonball.



QFT. I'm actually starting to lose a little bit of interest in Naruto, its just not as good as when it started out. Avatar on the other hand is a bit original (as original as you can get nowadays atleast) and is keeping me interested and hooked alot more then Naruto atm. Main problem I have with Naruto right now is that they seem to be rushing the story way too much. They need to slow it down and add some better content in it instead of killing off the main villians one after another in rapid succession with like zero backstory given for any of them. 

Anyways, back on topic, not counting summons/spirits, dead hokages/past avatars and such, it could go either way. With what was shown of said spirits and dead people I'd probably say it would be a tie since I dont see anyone killing the spirits of the Avatarverse, who unlike most of the falsely claimed immortals of Naruto seem to genuinely unkillable. I also dont see anything killing the Death God from Naruto if its counted as being a summon. 

So yea, no extras it could go either way, with extras it would probably be a tie.


----------



## ~Shin~ (Feb 25, 2007)

> Avatar is a original masterpiece.
> 
> Naruto is getting to the point of being a cheesed up version of Dragonball.



Naruto shouldn't even be in the same sentence as Dragonball.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 25, 2007)

~Shin~ said:


> Naruto shouldn't even be in the same sentence as Dragonball.



I like Dragonball. I wasn't insulting it


----------



## Hale (Feb 25, 2007)

> He wasn't down for the count. You make it sound like Sokka beat him by jumping on him.


 lol but sokka still hurt him by jumping on him roughly 150lbs from 10 feet above him hurt the owl spirit, think the narutoverse can't match that?


----------



## ~Shin~ (Feb 25, 2007)

Indignation said:


> I like Dragonball. I wasn't insulting it



I know you weren't. 

I was just saying how crappy Naruto is compared to DB


----------



## killfox (Feb 25, 2007)

NarutoJester said:


> Naruto Universe easily. The only thing I wonder is would Earth Benders be able to control Gaara's sand?


There are sand benders you know.


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 25, 2007)

Hale said:


> lol but sokka still hurt him by jumping on him roughly 150lbs from 10 feet above him hurt the owl spirit, think the narutoverse can't match that?



So something that happened to one character proves that the same would happen to every other character?  Since when was that a rule.


----------



## Hale (Feb 25, 2007)

> So something that happened to one character proves that the same would happen to every other character? Since when was that a rule.


Well we have a group of supposed imortals all on the same tier, the fact that one of them was hurt makes me think all of them can be hurt


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 25, 2007)

Since when were they all on the same tier?  They never were.

Koh would destroy the Owl Spirit, or any other spirit that made any sort of expression.  The Ocean Spirit would destroy the Owl Spirit depending whether or not they were near a decent mass of water.  For all we know, the Owl Spirit could've done what the Ocean and the Moon spirits did, and gave up it's immortality to remain in the mortal world permanantly.


----------



## Hale (Feb 25, 2007)

> Koh would destroy the Owl Spirit, or any other spirit that made any sort of expression. The Ocean Spirit would destroy the Owl Spirit depending whether or not they were near a decent mass of water. For all we know, the Owl Spirit could've done what the Ocean and the Moon spirits did, and gave up it's immortality to remain in the mortal world permanantly.


 It's never shown or inferred that he gave up his independace and the putting the owl spirit against the ocean spirit is giving that spirit a decent advantage, more or less the spirits are equal beings and since invinvibility has been disproved for one, believing that the others are invicible is false


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 25, 2007)

jasononline said:


> Tell me, what exactly can anyone from Naruto do to Koh?  What can they do to the Bear Spirit?  Or any of the other immortal spirits from Avatarverse.  If it was Narutoverse vs Avatarverse with no Bijuu's or summons or stuff like that, it might be a different story, but since it's not, even if the Avatar and company can't beat Narutoverse, the spirits from Avatarverse sure can.



They can just seal the spirits.


----------



## Hale (Feb 25, 2007)

> They can just seal the spirits.


lol screw that why was all that chakra? sokka hurt a spirit by jumping on him, what are the implications of that?


----------



## Fenix (Feb 26, 2007)

Including past Avatars: Avatar wins easily

If not, Naruto should win. Honestly, Avatar is a great show but it has more realism.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Feb 26, 2007)

with all past Avatars Avatar verse wins. 
Without all past Avatars, they would get destroyed.


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## kyubijim (Feb 26, 2007)

^afro-samurai words this futile fight best. If all the past avatars were present, then the Narutoverse stands little chance, genjutsu or not. However, if Aang was the only avatar present, then the entire Avatarverse would take it up the ass. One needs to take into consideration that stealth would play a big role in this fight.


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## Giovanni Rild (Feb 26, 2007)

kyubijim said:


> ^afro-samurai words this futile fight best. If all the past avatars were present, then the Narutoverse stands little chance, genjutsu or not. However, if Aang was the only avatar present, then the entire Avatarverse would take it up the ass. One needs to take into consideration that stealth would play a big role in this fight.



You joking right? Realism don't = Weak. 

Five small villages vs Two Armies and many other military forces. 

It's futile for Naruto


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 26, 2007)

kyubijim said:


> However, if Aang was the only avatar present, then the entire Avatarverse would take it up the ass. One needs to take into consideration that stealth would play a big role in this fight.



One also needs to release that Avatarverse has their own powerful nonhuman creatures on their side, ones that are actually immortal, so stealth will not factor into it with them.



			
				Superraizen said:
			
		

> They can just seal the spirits.



I don't see anyone from Narutoverse being able to hold down the spirits long enough to seal them, save for the ocean spirit which is a fish (though as long as it's near a reasonable sized body of water, no ninja will get close to it without being completely destroyed).  Also, that would mean killing one of their own, and I'm not so sure there are that many shinobi willing to make that sacrifice.


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## Kai (Feb 26, 2007)

Indignation said:


> Five small villages vs Two Armies and many other military forces.



Stop degrading the opposition, Rild:



That's easily the size of the Northern Water Tribe. If you pit one universe vs another, the past is not counted. The characters all fight, but last I checked there were no known ways to summon spirits at will.

If Deidara's claims his #18 can wipe out the Sand village, it could EASILY take out any of the nations with probably the exception of the Fire Nation, as we have no clue how large it is. 
Naruto shinobi move like this on a regular basis:

I've already told you, the people in the Avatarverse haven't shown any superhuman speed whatsoever, most of the fighters probably can't defeat a small team of chuunins.

These shinobi are actually smarter than what the Avatarverse can offer, they're stealthier, sneakier, and much faster. Very few people in the Avatarverse are even battle smart, they lose unless you include Past Avatars but even then the OP should alter the title.


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## kyubijim (Feb 26, 2007)

Which creatures are immortal? If it's the spirits, I thought that the moon spirit was killed by Zhao (but later bought back to life by Yue). Also, Aang's avatar spirit can be killed while in the avatar state. Despite what has been said, I still believe stealth is a huge factor. Tranformation jutsu, replacement jutsu, camoflage jutsu, all of these can be used on the battlefield to get the heads up on a human enemy. Take into consideration that Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee took control of Ba Sing Se while disguising themselves as Kiyoshi Warriors. If that doesn't scream ninja, than I don't know what does.


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## Nice Gai (Feb 26, 2007)

The Naruto verse is a little bit more versatile here but my thing is just it seems like the kingdoms have armies and stuff. Naruto has the rookie nine, Sand squad, Jounins and Hokages and Akatsuki. The Avatars are bit much. Its the number of fighters which I see here. Oh question did the Naruto verse just fall into the Avatarverse or vice versa. Sand Village is screwed over and over. I think Konoha can man their battle station. Naruto the story line only focus on so many characters its hard to see what other villages and characters powers are. 

The easiest way for the Narutoverse to win is just have Temari come out with her summon and slice everyone up. Oro can just go around and find two dead bodies and summon back two Avatars that died on the battlefield and bring them back to the ninja side and pwn everyone.


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## Finn Mac Cool (Feb 26, 2007)

As far as the issue of numbers goes, according to the most recent chapter of Naruto:


*Spoiler*: __ 



There must be a lot of ninja in the Narutoverse, because Orochimaru found a few hundred (possibly as many as a thousand) ninja for Sasuke to fight, without any hint that one of the large villages had mobilized a force against them.  Combined with the fact that Sasuke beat these hundreds of ninjas without having to use lethal force, seemingly without becoming tired, and without recieving so much as a scratch, it seems like saying the Avatarverse wins because it has a larger military is baloney.


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 26, 2007)

kyubijim said:


> Which creatures are immortal? If it's the spirits, I thought that the moon spirit was killed by Zhao (but later bought back to life by Yue). Also, Aang's avatar spirit can be killed while in the avatar state. Despite what has been said, I still believe stealth is a huge factor. Tranformation jutsu, replacement jutsu, camoflage jutsu, all of these can be used on the battlefield to get the heads up on a human enemy. Take into consideration that Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee took control of Ba Sing Se while disguising themselves as Kiyoshi Warriors. If that doesn't scream ninja, than I don't know what does.



All spirits are immortal.  To become part of the mortal realm they have to give up their immortality, which is what the moon and ocean spirits did.  Also, Aang isn't a spirit, which means he isn't immortal.  Transformation and camoflage jutsu are genjutsu, so they won't work on anyone from Avatarverse.

Hmmm, considering that, Narutoverse may be able to win just by letting Avatarverse see what Tsunade really looks like lol.


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## Nice Gai (Feb 26, 2007)

Scenario I didnt say that the Naruto world has less characters it only focuses on those that I said because they are the only ones that can do anything rookie nine, Sand squad, Jounins and Hokages and Akatsuki. Everyone else sucks. Sound village out of all those people that live there we have only seen like 7 people who can actaully do something worth commemorating. The Nations army uses that element. I was giving a comparison.


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## Finn Mac Cool (Feb 26, 2007)

jasononline said:


> All spirits are immortal.  To become part of the mortal realm they have to give up their immortality, which is what the moon and ocean spirits did.  Also, Aang isn't a spirit, which means he isn't immortal.  Transformation and camoflage jutsu are genjutsu, so they won't work on anyone from Avatarverse.
> 
> Hmmm, considering that, Narutoverse may be able to win just by letting Avatarverse see what Tsunade really looks like lol.



So the spirits of the Avatarverse, in order to interact with mortal beings, need to take on a mortal body, right?  True, that creepy Koh guy didn't need to take a physical form, but that's only because Aang was in a spirit form when he ran into him.  So the spirits can only hurt Naruto characters if they take a physical form, and thus give up their immortality.  I haven't seen all of Season 1 yet, however, so correct me if I'm mistaken.

Oh, and the Transformation Jutsu isn't a Genjutsu; if it were, then how come, when Naruto changed himself into a shuriken, Sasuke was able to throw him just like a real shuriken?


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## Finn Mac Cool (Feb 26, 2007)

Nice Gai said:


> Scenario I didnt say that the Naruto world has less characters it only focuses on those that I said because they are the only ones that can do anything rookie nine, Sand squad, Jounins and Hokages and Akatsuki. Everyone else sucks. Sound village out of all those people that live there we have only seen like 7 people who can actaully do something worth commemorating. The Nations army uses that element. I was giving a comparison.



Didn't the Earth King's dozens of elite guards, all of whom were Earthbenders, get smacked around pretty easily by Team Avatar.  Avatar follows the Stormtrooper rule just as much as Naruto does:  someone without a name or distinctive physical feature stands no chance against any named character.


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## Kai (Feb 26, 2007)

jasononline said:


> All spirits are immortal.  To become part of the mortal realm they have to give up their immortality, which is what the moon and ocean spirits did.  Also, Aang isn't a spirit, which means he isn't immortal.  Transformation and camoflage jutsu are genjutsu, so they won't work on anyone from Avatarverse.
> 
> Hmmm, considering that, Narutoverse may be able to win just by letting Avatarverse see what Tsunade really looks like lol.



The henge isn't a genjutsu. There's too many overpowered and broken abilities from the Narutoverse over the Avatarverse. They win in various ways.


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## kyubijim (Feb 26, 2007)

Oh, I wasn't aware that genjustsu wouldn't work on anyone from the avatarverse. If that's the case, then it's a completely different ball game.


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## Superrazien (Feb 26, 2007)

> I don't see anyone from Narutoverse being able to hold down the spirits long enough to seal them, save for the ocean spirit which is a fish (though as long as it's near a reasonable sized body of water, no ninja will get close to it without being completely destroyed). Also, that would mean killing one of their own, and I'm not so sure there are that many shinobi willing to make that sacrifice.



Well thats cause your thinking of the Shinigomi seal, they have other sealing Jutsus such as the one Jiraiya used to seal Itachis black fire or the one Gaaras dad did to fuse the sand spirit with him, I am sure there are many more sealing Jutsus to. But if worst comes to worst Kakashi can send them to another dimension and since its a universe battle I just see Tsuande, and Sakura healing him and he is ready for another shot.



> Oh, I wasn't aware that genjustsu wouldn't work on anyone from the avatarverse. If that's the case, then it's a completely different ball game.



I dont see how it cant Avatar uses chakra, hell they even have chakra gates. Chakra=Life Force or Spirit energy, Genjutsu would work but alot of people say it wont basicly because its instant win cause Itachi would pwn the whole universe with Genjutsu.


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## kyubijim (Feb 26, 2007)

There are too many "ifs, ands, or buts" in this thread. That is why I think this fight is futile. Each side has it's strengths and weaknesses. I think it's impossible to determine a winner (I like both shows equally, so I'm not trying to be biased here).

Both universes have the ability to control the elements. The Narutoverse uses ninjutsu, while the Avatarverse bends. The Avatarverse has the advantage here b/c they seem to have almost limitless control of thier elements. It seems to mostly depend on the skill and stamina of the user. Whereas, those in the Narutoverse do not seem to have as much flexibility when controlling an element. Although, those from the Narutoverse are capable of using more than one. This could be an advantage in a fight w/ a normal bender. However, this brings up the issue of chakra. Those in the Narutoverse are limited by how much chrakra they have. Never have I seen a bender ever stop bending b/c they ran out of "chi" or whatever they use. Although some firebenders are capable of shooting lightning, they cannot control it. They can only be "it's humble guide." As we know, those in the Naruto verse are capable of handling lightning. As for elemental kekkei genkai's, I don't really see how this could create much of a problem for the Avatarverse seeing as how they can basically do the same thing (i.e. ice, wood). One of the major weaknesses on both side would be the issue of thier limbs. Each side needs thier arms or legs to control thier techniques. Benders need to move thier arms and legs to bend, unless its Bumi, who can bend w/ his face, however, he is the only one who can do it to my knowledge. Similarly, Ninjas need thier hands for form seals. No hand(s)=no jutsu (Unless it is something like rasengan or a ceritain bloodline limit that can forego the use of hand seals.

As for mythical beasts, the Narutoverse has the bijuu and the Avatarverse has the spirits. The bijuu are highly destructive on thier own, while according to Deidara, have the potenital to be much more so if they have a Jinchuuriki as a medium to control that power. I assume we all know just how destructive a jinchuuriki can be based on evidence from part 2. The same also goes for the spirits in the avatarverse. The spirits have proven themselves to be quite destructive as well based off of what we have seen from the ocean spirit in Siege of the North. Of course, I don't know if that was the spirit's power alone, or whether or not Aang was channling his power through the spirit, much like a jinchuuriki would. At this point in the series though, we know far too little about spirit world to make any assumptions about thier power. All we've seen Koh do is steal faces. Of course, if he is as bad a spirit as the show makes him out to be, then maybe he will show his true colors in book 3. Again, at this point, no real conclusions can be made. The same goes for Naruto. We just don't know enough yet. Maybe when both series come to a close, then some conclusions can be made, but at this point, all this thread is, is just pointless banter back and fourth based on one anothers biases.


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 26, 2007)

Finn Mac Cool said:


> So the spirits of the Avatarverse, in order to interact with mortal beings, need to take on a mortal body, right?  True, that creepy Koh guy didn't need to take a physical form, but that's only because Aang was in a spirit form when he ran into him.  So the spirits can only hurt Naruto characters if they take a physical form, and thus give up their immortality.  I haven't seen all of Season 1 yet, however, so correct me if I'm mistaken.



No they don't need a physical form.  If that was true then the Bear Spirit wouldn't have been a problem.



Superrazien said:


> But if worst comes to worst Kakashi can send them to another dimension and since its a universe battle I just see Tsuande, and Sakura healing him and he is ready for another shot.



Yeah, they can't heal him up just like that.  If they could, he wouldn't be bed ridden whenever he uses MS.





			
				Superrazien said:
			
		

> I dont see how it cant Avatar uses chakra, hell they even have chakra gates. Chakra=Life Force or Spirit energy, Genjutsu would work but alot of people say it wont basicly because its instant win cause Itachi would pwn the whole universe with Genjutsu.



I don't see how you can't understand why they can't use genjutsu on Avatarverse.  When will you get it through your thick skull that Chakra only equals life force or energy in NARUTOVERSE!!  Avatar chakra is not the same as Naruto chakra.  Avatar chakra is more like chakra in real world meditation.  It's not real energy, it just helps you focus and become one with yourself (or whatever they wanna call it).  Avatarverse has no chakra system for shinobi to manipulate, so genjutsu won't work.


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## Chocochip (Feb 26, 2007)

okay here is why narutoverse would win. gamma, bijuus, akatsuki, speed, manda, and katsuya. okay. each ninja jounin level has not one but two affinities. only one that has more than one in avatar is aang, but he cant even use 1/2 of them good. medical jutsU>water jutsu too. most impressive thing it did was bring back a fish and i dont think that even was medical jutsu. just the girl giving back her life. about off moving steel, i wanna say people like chouji or gai cant get hurt by any of those. avatar itself and all of it is wayy tooo slowww. everyone knows they have just around olympian all star bodies all of them. none of them move like a superhuman even close to that of any genin. this is just stupid fanboyism. avatar state would be owned by any summon or bijuu. aang cant even go in avatar mode that fast as naruto can go Kn2 or 3 with control. doesnt matter anyways when tney all die by  a single punch or slick to the throat by a kunia cause they are wayy too, i repeat wayy too slow and not durable at all to face naruto ninjas.



oh and for people that say avatarverse would win if all past avatars came back. then its only fair for all kages to come back plus alll bijuus. if all nine bijuus are unleashed and fought avatarverse at once with all those kages and summons, even all the past avatars couldnt do much.


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## Kai (Feb 26, 2007)

jasononline said:


> I don't see how you can't understand why they can't use genjutsu on Avatarverse.  When will you get it through your thick skull that Chakra only equals life force or energy in NARUTOVERSE!!  Avatar chakra is not the same as Naruto chakra.  Avatar chakra is more like chakra in real world meditation.  It's not real energy, it just helps you focus and become one with yourself (or whatever they wanna call it).  Avatarverse has no chakra system for shinobi to manipulate, so genjutsu won't work.



But I clearly remember Tai Li speaking to(Sokka or Katara, I forget) that his/her chi-holes were blocked off because of her martial arts style.

It's a similar concept, I don't see why genjutsu isn't allowed.


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 26, 2007)

Space said:


> But I clearly remember Tai Li speaking to(Sokka or Katara, I forget) that his/her chi-holes were blocked off because of her martial arts style.
> 
> It's a similar concept, I don't see why genjutsu isn't allowed.



Because chi is not the same as chakra.  Seriously, it isn't that hard of a concept to grasp, most people in the OBD get it.  Also, she was able to block his chi, yeah.  It's the same thing as in acupuncture.  If anyone from Narutoverse know chinese acupuncture or the same martial art Ty Lee uses, they can block their chi and stop bending.  Either way, genjutsu still won't work because people from Avatarverse don't have the chakra or chakra system necessary.  Simple idea.

On a side note, Itachi, Kakashi, and Sasuke could use sharingan to copy Ty Lee's moves, enabling them to take out benders.


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## Shiron (Feb 26, 2007)

Space said:


> But I clearly remember Tai Li speaking to(Sokka or Katara, I forget) that his/her chi-holes were blocked off because of her martial arts style.
> 
> It's a similar concept, I don't see why genjutsu isn't allowed.


Because chi is not chakra. They're two different things and have different uses in both shows. It's stupid to just give them chakra when they don't have it, especially with how you'd be doing it; you'd be giving them the negatives of having chakra (being vulnerable to things like genjutsu), without the positives (actually being able to use things like genjutsu or ninjutsu), nor (even having the oppurtunity to) have the knowledge of how to counter genjutsu. All you'd be doing by saying "let genjutsu affect them" is giving them the negatives of having chakra, without any of the positives, nor knowledge of how it works and I'm not seeing that as fair. Sure, not letting the Naruto-universe use one of their greatest weapons isn't too fair either, I admit. However, the point stands that we'd only be making them vulnerable to something that they wouldn't be; if they were to really fight, the Naruto-universe's genjutsu wouldn't work on them since they have chi, but not chakra. Even if this means the Naruto-world would be slightly handicapped (I say slightly because so far, only a handful of people have shown to be good with genjutsu), I see no reason why we should just change the facts to "make things fair."


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## Giovanni Rild (Feb 26, 2007)

Zero said:


> Chakra & CHi = Life force
> the key comparison found between both of them is that they are both energy flow through the body even in avatar. It was shown when the guru told aang to let his chakras flow through his body which makes it the same as chi. the bothh are life sustainng elements in the body.
> 
> chakra no matter how its used is circulated though all parts of the body
> ...



You can't use real life versions.  Avatar character lack a Chakra circulatory system. Which is why Genjustu and Gentle Fist doesn't work


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 26, 2007)

Zero said:


> Chakra & CHi = Life force
> the key comparison found between both of them is that they are both energy flow through the body even in avatar. It was shown when the guru told aang to let his chakras flow through his body which makes it the same as chi. the bothh are life sustainng elements in the body.
> 
> chakra no matter how its used is circulated though all parts of the body
> ...




Yeah, that means nothing.  That's like saying chakra and the force are exactly the same thing.  Just because they are both life energy does not mean they are the same thing.  And I have already explained that the chakra in Avatar isn't the same as chakra in Naruto.  So no, no matter how many times you try to say it will, genjutsu does not and will not work on Avatarverse.


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## Halcyon Days (Feb 26, 2007)

Indignation said:


> You can't use real life versions.  Avatar character lack a Chakra circulatory system. Which is why Genjustu and Gentle Fist doesn't work



they lack a Chakra circulatory system, but not a chakra network that still leaves damage and makes them vulnerable.  It was said by the guru on where all of aang,s chakra systems were on his body


jasononline said:


> Yeah, that means nothing.  That's like saying chakra and the force are exactly the same thing.  Just because they are both life energy does not mean they are the same thing.  And I have already explained that the chakra in Avatar isn't the same as chakra in Naruto.  So no, no matter how many times you try to say it will, genjutsu does not and will not work on Avatarverse.



chakra in avatar still leaves room for damage as long as there is a chakra system period. and since it is intertwined with all the parts  throughout the body is still leaves room for damage.

 since they have locations in the body through all the senses genjutsu still affects them.


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## Giovanni Rild (Feb 26, 2007)

Zero said:


> they lack a Chakra circulatory system, but not a chakra network that still leaves damage and makes them vulnerable.  It was said by the guru on where all of aang,s chakra systems were on his body



You are wrong.

​

It was his chakra points the Guru was speaking of.

Try again.


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## Shiron (Feb 26, 2007)

Zero said:


> they lack a Chakra circulatory system, but not a chakra network that still leaves damage and makes them vulnerable.  It was said by the guru on where all of aang,s chakra systems were on his body


Err, they lack the chakra system of Naruto. Therefore, genjutsu won't work on them. What you're doing is pretty much just saying "They don't have Naruto's kind of chakra, but they have something else, which is also called chakra, which the Narutoverse could use, since it's still called chakra." Sorry, but no. Yes, the Avatar-universe has chakra, but it's not the same kind of chakra, nor does it involve the same chakra system that's used in Naruto. Therefore, the Narutoverse would be unable to do anything with it for things like genjutsu, ect. They don't have the Naruto-universe's type of chakra, so anything involving them having it won't work on them. It's that simple.


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 26, 2007)

Zero said:


> they lack a Chakra circulatory system, but not a chakra network that still leaves damage and makes them vulnerable.  It was said by the guru on where all of aang,s chakra systems were on his body



What part of 'They aren't the same chakra' don't you understand?  Just because my name is Jason and there is a football player named Jason doesn't mean that I am a football player.  Do you get it?  Avatarverse does not have Narutoverse chakra, which genjutsu require, so Avatarverse can not be the victim of genjutsu.  You can't be the victim of something when you don't have what it needs to victimize you.


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## Halcyon Days (Feb 26, 2007)

jasononline said:


> What part of 'They aren't the same chakra' don't you understand?  Just because my name is Jason and there is a football player named Jason doesn't mean that I am a football player.  Do you get it?  Avatarverse does not have Narutoverse chakra, which genjutsu require, so Avatarverse can not be the victim of genjutsu.  You can't be the victim of something when you don't have what it needs to victimize you.



I'm not basing them on naruto chakra I am basing it on avatar chakra, and Chakra is chakra duh..... It was said in the episode guru, but ur example means BS in relevant to this. In your example u are two diff. people with different characteristics that do 2 extremely diferent things. But the only difference in naruto chakra and avatar chakra is that narutocharcaters use theirs for power while Avatar characters use chi for their power. the point is avatar still has chakra whether he uses it or not its the SAME THING and he still has it so it leaves room for damage.

And if its not the same thing tell me why in the diagram in Naruto where it shows the chakra system; where the chakra gates are located  They are in the same place that the Guru tells Aang where his chakras are located? and why does he call them the same thing?


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 26, 2007)

No it's not.  And my example was the EXACT same thing you are saying.  The only similarity Naruto chakra and Avatar chakra has is it's name.  Avatar chakra is more like chakra used in real life.  It's not real, it's more to help you focus.  It's spiritual.  It's not something you can affect from the outside.  Naruto chakra is something outside influences can affect, and can actually be added to attacks.  You can't do that with Avatarverse chakra.  So no, they AREN'T the same thing.  Stop trying to prove they are, because they aren't.


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## Halcyon Days (Feb 26, 2007)

Indignation said:


> You are wrong.
> 
> ​
> 
> ...



WRONG,When i rewatched it I didn't hear him say chakra points, he said his Chakra which meant the entire system for that chakra, and since he has them he is still able to be affected by genjustu...., but genjutsu should be a last resort the main point is that Naruto verse Wins . gamabunta, Hidan, Kakuzu, sasori, Orochimaru, Or Kyuubi Naruto, Or kimimmaro would beat them.


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## Giovanni Rild (Feb 26, 2007)

Zero said:


> WRONG,When i rewatched it I didn't hear him say chakra points, he said his Chakra which meant the entire system for that chakra, and since he has them he is still able to be affected by genjustu...., but genjutsu should be a last resort the main point is that Naruto verse Wins . gamabunta, Hidan, Kakuzu, sasori, Orochimaru, Or Kyuubi Naruto, Or kimimmaro would beat them.




Go watch that episode again before you try to slow dance with me. Don't embarrass yourself.


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 26, 2007)

WRONG, the Guru is a Guru.  He is a master of MEDITATION.  Guess what that image is of?  Chakra used by Gurus.  So yeah, that is exactly what he was talking about.  Avatar does not have a chakra circulatory system to manipulate.


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## Halcyon Days (Feb 26, 2007)

jasononline said:


> No it's not.  And my example was the EXACT same thing you are saying.  The only similarity Naruto chakra and Avatar chakra has is it's name.  Avatar chakra is more like chakra used in real life.  It's not real, it's more to help you focus.  It's spiritual.  It's not something you can affect from the outside.  Naruto chakra is something outside influences can affect, and can actually be added to attacks.  You can't do that with Avatarverse chakra.  So no, they AREN'T the same thing.  Stop trying to prove they are, because they aren't.



If its something to help u focus then it affects your mind. genjutsu doesn't affect the outside. It affctes the inside. If Chakra isn't real how come its stated that chakras in teh body are linked to real life glands in our body.

the crown chakra = pituitary gland
ajna chakra = pineal gland
and etc.... Avatarverse loses. naruto verse wins by utter domination of strength, and besides Narutoverse has elemental adavntages so it would be easy to figure out who was what then pair them put whoever has the adavantage aagainst them then beta them...

Narutoverse wins.


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## Halcyon Days (Feb 26, 2007)

jasononline said:


> WRONG, the Guru is a Guru.  He is a master of MEDITATION.  Guess what that image is of?  Chakra used by Gurus.  So yeah, that is exactly what he was talking about.  Avatar does not have a chakra circulatory system to manipulate.



Guru means a teacher of hinduism, buddhism, and religiou concepts...why bother explain u dont listen. Narutoverse Wins. By speed, Strength, Overall intellengence of fighters, elemental advantages, and ninja techniques.

lets not forget about the summons and bijuus game over


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 26, 2007)

Zero said:
			
		

> If its something to help u focus then it affects your mind. genjutsu doesn't affect the outside. It affctes the inside. If Chakra isn't real how come its stated that chakras in teh body are linked to real life glands in our body.
> 
> the crown chakra = pituitary gland
> ajna chakra = pineal gland



Do you even know how genjutsu works?  They affect the chakra circulatory system.  Since people from Avatarverse have no chakra circulatory system, how can genjutsu work?

Also, those are the chakra points.  It is the place on your body where one of seven chakras flows from.  That is not a chakra circulatory system.  So no, genjutsu won't work.

Edit: Yeah summons.  Ok, then let's not forget about the spirits from Avatar.  Considering they are immortal, how can the ninja kill them?


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## Kai (Feb 26, 2007)

Shiron said:


> Because chi is not chakra. They're two different things and have different uses in both shows. It's stupid to just give them chakra when they don't have it, especially with how you'd be doing it; you'd be giving them the negatives of having chakra (being vulnerable to things like genjutsu), without the positives (actually being able to use things like genjutsu or ninjutsu), nor (even having the oppurtunity to) have the knowledge of how to counter genjutsu. All you'd be doing by saying "let genjutsu affect them" is giving them the negatives of having chakra, without any of the positives, nor knowledge of how it works and I'm not seeing that as fair. Sure, not letting the Naruto-universe use one of their greatest weapons isn't too fair either, I admit. However, the point stands that we'd only be making them vulnerable to something that they wouldn't be; if they were to really fight, the Naruto-universe's genjutsu wouldn't work on them since they have chi, but not chakra. Even if this means the Naruto-world would be slightly handicapped (I say slightly because so far, only a handful of people have shown to be good with genjutsu), I see no reason why we should just change the facts to "make things fair."



Look, you don't need to give me such a long explanation of this. I've gone over 10 pages explaining the same thing to damn Phenomenol and MSGohan...

I've been in the OBD long enough to understand what is and isn't effective. I'm tired of explaining myself this time.

Edit: When in hell has someone from the Avatarverse been able to summon a spirit? They're in the spirit realm.


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## Superrazien (Feb 26, 2007)

> I don't see how you can't understand why they can't use genjutsu on Avatarverse. When will you get it through your thick skull that Chakra only equals life force or energy in NARUTOVERSE!! Avatar chakra is not the same as Naruto chakra. Avatar chakra is more like chakra in real world meditation. It's not real energy, it just helps you focus and become one with yourself (or whatever they wanna call it). Avatarverse has no chakra system for shinobi to manipulate, so genjutsu won't work.



Ok lets just get this straight, Chakra, Ki, and Chi are Life Force Energy even look it up, they mean the same thing. Chakra works on like a wheel hence why when Neji looked in Naruto when he called Kybuui chakra it spun like a wheel. Chakra is Chakra you cant say Avatar Chakra different than Naruto Chakra therefore Genjutsu wont work, thats like saying Spirit Energy from Yusukes Spirit Gun isnt the same energy as the KI from Gokus Kamehameha therefore they will just pass through one another or both wont have any effect. If the Avatar universe uses chakra than it can be manipulated as the chakra has to flow through somewhere Genjutsu works by effecting the 5 senses and using the persons own chakra agenst them, if they have chakra in the avatar universe then it must flow through them there for it can be manipulated they might not have the sam chakra system as the shinobi in Naruto but if they use Chakra in any way shape or form it has to flow in there body or reside in their body somewhere. Avatar fans seem to be the only fans that dont all Genjutsu in VS matches, even in Naruto VS DBZ, Bleach, YYH, ect.. most people agree genjutsus can work the only real universe genjutsu cant work is One Piece because they use no form of Spiritual energy as of now. 

But enough about Genjutsu believe it wont work if you dont want its not like they need it to win all Genjutsu will allow is it will allow 1 or 2 characters to solo the entire avatarverse. In other words Genjutsu is overkill so for the threads sake Genjutsus shouldnt be allowed just because its overkill.


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 26, 2007)

Space said:
			
		

> When in hell has someone from the Avatarverse been able to summon a spirit? They're in the spirit realm.



They don't need to summon them, the spirits can come over by their own power.

Also, we do need to give long explanations cause people like Superraizen and Zero don't understand that Chi is not the same thing as Narutoverse chakra.

Edit:  Superraizen, just leave it the hell alone.  Genjutsu won't work on Avatarverse.  Chi is not the same thing as Chakra.  Avatarverse does not use Chakra to do bending, Aang had to master his chakra so he could control the elements effectively.  This is because he was at conflict with himself, he had doubts.  Chakras aren't actually energy that can be shown and used to manipulate, so it can't be manipulated to perform genjutsu.  This is a common rule in the OBD, fictional universal rules do not necessarily transfer over from one universe to another.  You can't prove genjutsu work, because they DON'T work.  It's so frustrating trying to make you see that you are wrong.


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## Superrazien (Feb 26, 2007)

^ Just look up the dam defeintion of Ki, Qi(Chi), and Chakra.


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 26, 2007)

WTF does the definition matter?  It doesn't.  Those are only definitions for OUR world, not the various fictional universes.  Or do you not understand that not all fictional universes follow the same rules as ours does?

Ok, let me dumb it down for you since you obviously don't know the rules of the OBD.

1. Only people from Narutoverse have chakra circulatory systems, because that is the only universe where they exist.  People who are not from Narutoverse do not have chakra circulatory systems because they only exist in Narutoverse.

2. Anyone from Avatarverse are from Avatarverse and not Narutoverse.  Hence, people from Avatarverse do not have chakra circulatory systems due to 1.

3. Genjutsu require the enemy to have a chakra circulatory system to work.  Genjutsu do not work if the enemy does not have a chakra circulatory system.

4. Genjutsu do not work on people from Avatarverse due to 2 and 3.

Do you understand it now?  God, I hope you do, cause I just don't know how to get it through your thick skull.


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## killfox (Feb 26, 2007)

Kagutsuchi said:


> Yondaime can solo this seriously.


To bad hes dead lol, and if you can use dead people then all the dead people in avatar can be used (including the past avatars) in which case the narutoverse (including the deamons) are fucked. You may not think so but think about it, there are countless avatars (according to the show) who can controll all the elements vs anyone else, and when benders help eachother they become more powerful. Also every avatar has the power to use the avatar state so you do the math.


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## Gunshin (Feb 26, 2007)

jasononline said:


> Ok, let me dumb it down for you since you obviously don't know the rules of the OBD.


The funny thing is that you don't seem to know the rules of the OBD. For example, when people use "Bleach" in the OBD, its assumed that Bleach Characters' opponents can touch, hurt, and see them.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 26, 2007)

If disregarding the dead characters on both series, I'd say the Narutoverse. Their physical abilities such as speed, strength and endurance are superhuman unlike Avatar. Also, unlike the benders in Avatar, the ninjas in Naruto are not limited to the use of a single element, some can even use elements on a greater level than benders save for a fully realized Avatar. Kisame for example, no waterbender save for the Avatar could match that level of elemental manipulation. As for the spirits, they haven't shown many. The ones that have been shown so far seem to be weaker than the tailed beasts that have been featured in Naruto, the only real contender I would say is Koh since he is said to be able to take on a fully realized Avatar. If you were to include the past Avatars on the other hand, then Avatarverse.


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 26, 2007)

Gunshin said:


> The funny thing is that you don't seem to know the rules of the OBD. For example, when people use "Bleach" in the OBD, its assumed that Bleach Characters' opponents can touch, hurt, and see them.



So?  Does that have some implication in this?  No, no it doesn't.  It is a rule that unversal properties don't transfer over.  That is why Goku can't use IT against opponents from universes where ki isn't universal energy, Jedi can't use mind tricks on people not from Star Wars verse, and why genjutsu never, never, NEVER work on anyone not from Narutoverse.  This has been gone over a million times in a hundred different threads.


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## Gunshin (Feb 26, 2007)

jasononline said:


> So?  Does that have some implication in this?[/quote[
> Yes. Its always been accepted that both groups fight in a place where both universe physics are combined. Once again... Bleach as the example.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Superrazien (Feb 26, 2007)

jasononline said:


> WTF does the definition matter?  It doesn't.  Those are only definitions for OUR world, not the various fictional universes.  Or do you not understand that not all fictional universes follow the same rules as ours does?
> 
> Ok, let me dumb it down for you since you obviously don't know the rules of the OBD.
> 
> ...



Look Im not going to argue the Genjutsu thing with you anymore I already said its not needed. I said look up the defeition because you dont know what the hell your talking about, your trying to say Chakra isnt life force or spirit energy, which is the same thing Ki and Chi is. Just because it happens to be in a fictional universe does not change. Last I look Kishimoto didnt state that he just stole the name chakra and its a totally different level of energy, if you bother to look up chakra you will see all the similarties between Naruto Chakra and the real defeintion of chakra. Also do to your logic then Bleach characters can never be hit, KI from DBZ wont effect any other universe character, basicly your logic implies that you cant do battledome to the full extent. What ever though get off the genjutsu its is not needed it would only be a massive curbstomp if it was used.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Feb 26, 2007)

-Naruto verse is completly dominant in reaction, movement, and fighting, speed. 
-Naruto verse is completly dominant in strength, agility, sneakyness, and durability.

-Avatar verse has more numbers.. but they are just grunts. However, too be fair, those grunts are often in some techno dohicky. Incidently, those are all fire nation........

*Fire Nation*
On land it is just the tanks with fire benders in them hurling fire as well as individuals on foot. The individuals on foot are all just blitz.
The tanks attack is stil reliying on the people inside and not a mecanism. Hence, they too can be overcome with speed... and better yet simply caving in the ground or something. The big drill was disable... but if it's counted... then it would pose some problems, but nothing a group of ninja's couldn't just fix by infilatrating and torturing the crew in order to find out how to stop it.

Also on land... Azula, Tai Lee, and Mei, had some badass lizards... so I suppose fire nation has some more of those. Also, they had that machine too.

In the water... Fire Nation has probably thousands of boats with catapults and the rocks. However, Naruto nins can walk on water, or could swim in the water, an  basically be undected. Incidently, they don't have to toss out Suiton's to sink a ship, but just kill the crew to make it useless.

In the Air... they got the one hot air ballon so far.

--Nothing above poses any problems to just the Sannin fighting by themselves with Summons and another high tier ninja.


*Earth Nation*
Toph/ Boomy
The rest and Bei Sing sei

The grunts fighting together are pretty good stuff because they got wide scale area affecting attacks. However, blitzing them is still not that difficult. Although, I'd say killing them would require far more ninja's. 

Toph/Boomy fighting together are superior to the above, IMo. 
Toph is a beast and Boomy is not far behind at all. I think these two are the single biggest threat and pose the single biggest problem in taking down. Moreover, I don't think a speed blitz would work unless it is someone particually fast. So, these two alone could stand and fend off some people. Plus, when combined with the earth army then could lay in some heavy ass damage on the ninja side. However, they still get killed. In fact, if the ninja;s just back off and think things over they could sneak attack a lot of them.  

Aang, Azula, Iroh, Katara, Zuko,Fire bending Master, Water bending Master and Water Tribe- =

Akatsuki destroys them.

-*Avatar spirits*
 The owl...lol-It was hardly impossible to hurt, therefore it's killed.
The face eater= only in the spirit realm. If it manifest it can be killed, and it would be.
Water spirit= go kill the fish.
Bear spirit= never shown to be able to just endless stay and fight, but was limited to cycles and bound by it's own reservations about the people. S
Random unknown spirits that exist in spirit world and would magically come to fight= not included.  

-  Lastly, if people want to include all random unseen spirits from Avatar verse, then Naruto gets Kyuubi and all the five Nations of unknown ninja's. Hell, lets all assume Cloud has 2,000 troops!
Not to mention Kyuubi would have to be included as well.

Now stop being silly, Avatar pwns, but without All past Avatars they have no chance in hell against Naruto verse.


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## Giovanni Rild (Feb 26, 2007)

-Afro Samurai- said:


> -Naruto verse is completly dominant in reaction, movement, and fighting, speed.
> -Naruto verse is completly dominant in strength, agility, sneakyness, and durability.
> 
> -Avatar verse has more numbers and the bulk of those are the fire nation army. However, people are overatting the Fire Nation army.
> ...



I will say you are wrong. Well will never agree, so that's that's that. I think avatar is dominant in fighting skill. And durability and reaction matters on the certain characters. 

Aang was flung into stone cliffs and he got back up like nothing happened. Aang is more durable than most of Narutoverse for that matter


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Feb 26, 2007)

Indignation said:


> I will say you are wrong. Well will never agree, so that's that's that. I think avatar is dominant in fighting skill. And durability and reaction matters on the certain characters.
> 
> Aang was flung into stone cliffs and he got back up like nothing happened. Aang is more durable than most of Narutoverse for that matter



The first two statements are blanket generalizations and are not meant to include the very rare exception, which I think both you and I know exist. 
On the otherhand, putting those 7 or so characters aside, off which are still quite inferior in some area's, all typical people in Avatar verse are just normal humans.

Also, I'd say the Episode with him and Toph has good durability feat, but that his best one was in the Swamp episode where he was knocked some hundreds of feet by the Water Tribe Bending old guy and came back seconds later.


Why do you think Avatar verse without past Avatars and all Random spirits not only has a chance, but can actually win ???


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## Halcyon Days (Feb 26, 2007)

jasononline said:


> They don't need to summon them, the spirits can come over by their own power.
> 
> Also, we do need to give long explanations cause people like Superraizen and Zero don't understand that Chi is not the same thing as Narutoverse chakra.
> 
> Edit:  Superraizen, just leave it the hell alone.  Genjutsu won't work on Avatarverse.  Chi is not the same thing as Chakra.  Avatarverse does not use Chakra to do bending, Aang had to master his chakra so he could control the elements effectively.  This is because he was at conflict with himself, he had doubts.  Chakras aren't actually energy that can be shown and used to manipulate, so it can't be manipulated to perform genjutsu.  This is a common rule in the OBD, fictional universal rules do not necessarily transfer over from one universe to another.  You can't prove genjutsu work, because they DON'T work.  It's so frustrating trying to make you see that you are wrong.



man, I know u still aint ryin to fight this because u cant face the fact that AVATAR VERSE  DIES IN COMPARIOSN TO NARUTOVERSE. I mean how stupid can someone be to say that avatar verse can bet naruto verse.lets see in naruto verse people can have immortality, Sumon creatures 30 stories high, cast elemental attacks on a variety of scales, predict and see opponents movements, move faster than the eye can detect, attack internal organs, blow u up with clay birds, kill u by ink, and plenty of other things.. Just get over it u have been outmatched and outstated by too many ppl., Even if genjutsu doesn't work they still dominate the avatar verse by sheer power and speed, alone. I haven't even seen 1 person in avatar verse that would be able to beat shikamaru, or rival him in smarts that would even give avatar verse a chance..

The bootmline is that avatar verse loses by the number of jutsus and techniques that narutoverse has, nott ot mention the bijuus,and next time dont try to neg* rep me on some bullshit just because u mad u wrong. If u didnt neg* rep me I apoligize


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## Giovanni Rild (Feb 26, 2007)

-Afro Samurai- said:


> The first two statements are blanket generalizations and are not meant to include the very rare exception, which I think both you and I know exist.
> On the otherhand, putting those 7 or so characters aside, off which are still quite inferior in some area's, all typical people in Avatar verse are just normal humans.
> 
> Also, I'd say the Episode with him and Toph has good durability feat, but that his best one was in the Swamp episode where he was knocked some hundreds of feet by the Water Tribe Bending old guy and came back seconds later.
> ...



Because noname shionbi aren't fast or impressive at all. 

The Dai Li are on equal lvl with the ANBU. They are masters of stealth, they can hide in stone walls or underground. The Dai Li have brainwashing techniques as well.

I think Avatar no-names has superior firepower and can fire off a attack faster than a Naruto no-name because Naruto no-names need to form seals.   I also think Avatar no-names have stronger attacks. Waterbenders can cut steel, Earthbender can take the ground from under you.

And not every character in Naruto speedblitz.


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## Endless Mike (Feb 27, 2007)

It's funny how when you're arguing Naruto vs. Avatar you always try to downplay Naruto, but when you're arguing Naruto vs. One Piece you always try to overinflate Naruto.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Feb 27, 2007)

Indignation said:


> Because noname shionbi aren't fast or impressive at all.
> 
> The Dai Li are on equal lvl with the ANBU. They are masters of stealth, they can hide in stone walls or underground. The Dai Li have brainwashing techniques as well.
> 
> ...



Yamato by himself can do everything the Dai Li can but better...
Morever, the Anbu are said to specialize in ninja's tactic, tracking, and that kind of crap in Naruto verse. And, that is more impressive then specializes in techniques in a vastly human limitation world. 

-If an Avatar no-name consitue a random firebender, they are all blitz by superior speed, and dropped in one hit by superior strength. Aang, has done this constantly himself as has Zuko.....

Water tribe may be no name, but they were pretty much superior the huge fire nation army. And, being able to cut steel means nothing if your opponent isn;t there to be cut, can out jump your attack, or can just counter you with something.

Naruto chars of genin level all have ridiculous jumping ability, and also have weapons, and can use distraction while attacking.

it's not that everyone speed blitzs, it that's 99% of Avatar characters are just human beings and the Naruto chars will be moving around to fast for them.


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## Giovanni Rild (Feb 27, 2007)

Endless Mike said:


> It's funny how when you're arguing Naruto vs. Avatar you always try to downplay Naruto, but when you're arguing Naruto vs. One Piece you always try to overinflate Naruto.



I'm talking about No-name characters. Are you accusing me of being biased?



-Afro Samurai- said:


> Yamato by himself can do everything the Dai Li can but better...
> Morever, the Anbu are said to specialize in ninja's tactic, tracking, and that kind of crap in Naruto verse. And, that is more impressive then specializes in techniques in a vastly human limitation world.
> 
> -If an Avatar no-name consitue a random firebender, they are all blitz by superior speed, and dropped in one hit by superior strength. Aang, has done this constantly himself as has Zuko.....
> ...



Heh. I never saw a no-name move at bulr or beyond human speed. but I already said Narutoverse had the speed advantage


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## Hale (Feb 27, 2007)

> Heh. I never saw a no-name move at bulr or beyond human speed. but I already said Narutoverse had the speed advantage


 anbu ninja regularly disapear in a blur or teleport around, even the guy who gives the chunin exam fights does it, can you remember his name?

Edit : Bleach Artist Neg repped me saying my science was flawed because of this post 





> lol screw that why was all that chakra? sokka hurt a spirit by jumping on him, what are the implications of that?


Saying that my science was flawed, lol tell me where.


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## Limit_Tester (Feb 27, 2007)

Indignation said:


> I'm talking about No-name characters. Are you accusing me of being biased?
> 
> 
> 
> Heh. I never saw a no-name move at bulr or beyond human speed. but I already said Narutoverse had the speed advantage



There are like 20 Dai Li. There are countless numbers of ANBU. The Dai Li are well above average in Avatarverse. The ANBU are nobodies compared to Jounins. Genins are far above any non-named bender. The fact of the matter is, you are judging the Avatarverse by feats made by its main characters. DO YOU KNOW HOW RIDICULOUSLY OVERPOWERED THEY ARE IN THEIR OWN UNIVERSE? 

The fact of the matter is, the Avatar could probably be defeated by most Jounin. There are hundreds of jounin. I mean, what would they do against some real threats like the Sannin or Akatsuki? Sasori, Deidara, Kakuzu, Orochimaru, Jiraiya, Tsunade, Gaara. These people all have large scale attacks that could kill thousands.

Then you have advanced scouting with Byakugan. Yeah, its an entire clan. And ninjas in general can conceal themselves and provide advanced scouting intel.


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## Kai (Feb 27, 2007)

jasononline said:


> It is a rule that unversal properties don't transfer over.


To a certain extent. You have to know the difference.



			
				jasononline said:
			
		

> That is why Goku can use IT against opponents from universes where ki isn't universal energy


In that case, welcome to the OBD. Goku cant IT without a ki signature or a place he's visited before in mind. If someone like the Flash does not have ki, Gokus technique is useless.


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## Giovanni Rild (Feb 27, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> There are like 20 Dai Li. There are countless numbers of ANBU. The Dai Li are well above average in Avatarverse. The ANBU are nobodies compared to Jounins. Genins are far above any non-named bender. The fact of the matter is, you are judging the Avatarverse by feats made by its main characters. DO YOU KNOW HOW RIDICULOUSLY OVERPOWERED THEY ARE IN THEIR OWN UNIVERSE?
> 
> The fact of the matter is, the Avatar could probably be defeated by most Jounin. There are hundreds of jounin. I mean, what would they do against some real threats like the Sannin or Akatsuki? Sasori, Deidara, Kakuzu, Orochimaru, Jiraiya, Tsunade, Gaara. These people all have large scale attacks that could kill thousands.
> 
> Then you have advanced scouting with Byakugan. Yeah, its an entire clan. And ninjas in general can conceal themselves and provide advanced scouting intel.



You are wrong. Yamato is a jonin ANBU, and I'm sure he isn't the only one. And Narutoverse lagre scale attack need prep.

What would they do? Kill them. And I disagree with you opinion the most jonin can beat Aang


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## Kai (Feb 27, 2007)

Indignation said:


> You are wrong. Yamato is a jonin ANBU, and I'm sure he isn't the only one. And Narutoverse lagre scale attack need prep.
> 
> What would they do? Kill them. And I disagree with you opinion the most jonin can beat Aang



Azula knocked Aang out with one fire attack. Deidara can bomb an entire kingdom with one #18- choose your pick. The speed in the Narutoverse overwhelms the Avatarverse. You can't compare.


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## Limit_Tester (Feb 27, 2007)

Indignation said:


> You are wrong. Yamato is a jonin ANBU, and I'm sure he isn't the only one. And Narutoverse lagre scale attack need prep.
> 
> What would they do? Kill them. And I disagree with you opinion the most jonin can beat Aang



Name a jounin that wouldn't beat Aang. 

And if half even a tenth of the ANBU are as powerful as Yamato, then Avatarverse is doubly fucked.

The Sannin have giant summons. Gaara can create a sand avalanche. Kakuzu has incredibly powerful elemental attacks. Kisame has also demonstrated very powerful elemental attacks. Deidara has bombs and can kill with impunity from the air. Sasori has overpowered and deadly poisonous puppets.


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## Giovanni Rild (Feb 27, 2007)

Space said:


> Azula knocked Aang out with one fire attack. Deidara can bomb an entire kingdom with one #18- choose your pick. The speed in the Narutoverse overwhelms the Avatarverse. You can't compare.



I can compare. Is Choji fast? Is Base Naruto fast?  That wasn't the whole kingdom. Wait a sec, Gaara is a King?

Certain indivuals are fast, not every living person in narutoverse

And you are underestimating Avatarverse. Aang has greater feats than those weakling jonin. Bending>>>>>>>>>>>>Ninjustu


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## Limit_Tester (Feb 27, 2007)

I'm still waiting for you to tell me a jounin who would lose to the Avatar.


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## Giovanni Rild (Feb 27, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> I'm still waiting for you to tell me a jounin who would lose to the Avatar.



The only ones who would be a match is Asuma, Neji, Yamato, Inoichi Yamanaka,

The Jonin who would own him is Gai, Kakashi, Sakumo Hatake, Hizashi Hyuga, Shikaku Nara, 

The jonin that Aang would own is Kurenai, Choza Akimichi, Shizune,


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## Limit_Tester (Feb 27, 2007)

Indignation said:


> The only ones who would be a match is Asuma, Neji, Yamato, Inoichi Yamanaka,
> 
> The Jonin who would own him is Gai, Kakashi, Sakumo Hatake, Hizashi Hyuga, Shikaku Nara,
> 
> The jonin that Aang would own is Kurenai, Choza Akimichi, Shizune,



And this just shows how little conception you have of the difference in power levels. Come back when you aren't blinded by bias.


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## Giovanni Rild (Feb 27, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> And this just shows how little conception you have of the difference in power levels. Come back when you aren't blinded by bias.



You are the biased one, my foe.

I have reasons for my claim. You are gonna say some bullshit about speed, but half these guys never shown a speed feat.

You hate to admit that something not Japanese  giving Naruto a run for it's money


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## Superrazien (Feb 27, 2007)

Indignation said:


> I can compare. Is Choji fast? Is Base Naruto fast?  That wasn't the whole kingdom. Wait a sec, Gaara is a King?
> 
> Certain indivuals are fast, not every living person in narutoverse
> 
> And you are underestimating Avatarverse. Aang has greater feats than those weakling jonin. Bending>>>>>>>>>>>>Ninjustu



Bending<<<<<<< Ninjutsu, last I checked you cant revive the dead or seal Immortal Creatures, or Trap people in another dimension, or Transform into what ever you want, make clones of yourself, ect.. last I looked you cant do that with bending and for what its worth most Jonin can do nature manipulation so bending isnt far greater than a basic jonin ability.


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## Hale (Feb 27, 2007)

> The jonin that Aang would own is Kurenai, Choza Akimichi, Shizune,


Didn't kurenai Fight on equal terms with orochimaru, I don't even know who the secound guy is, and i doubt that tsunade sama's second in command is weak by any means


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## Superrazien (Feb 27, 2007)

Hale said:


> Didn't kurenai Fight on equal terms with orochimaru, I don't even know who the secound guy is, and i doubt that tsunade sama's second in command is weak by any means



OO man your gonna get flammed. Kurenai didnt fight Orochimaru


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## Giorno Giovannax (Feb 27, 2007)

Hale said:


> Didn't kurenai Fight on equal terms with orochimaru, I don't even know who the secound guy is, and i doubt that tsunade sama's second in command is weak by any means



Kurenai only fought Itachi and she got destroyed. Choza is Chouji's father and Shizune is skilled byt not that impressive.


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## Giovanni Rild (Feb 27, 2007)

Superrazien said:


> Bending<<<<<<< Ninjutsu, last I checked you cant revive the dead or seal Immortal Creatures, or Trap people in another dimension, or Transform into what ever you want, make clones of yourself, ect.. last I looked you cant do that with bending and for what its worth most Jonin can do nature manipulation so bending isnt far greater than a basic jonin ability.



In raw power I meant. Name a jonin that can do what Avatar top tiers can do with justus.

Name a Kage that can erupt volcanoes, sink islands, etc


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## Hale (Feb 27, 2007)

> Kurenai only fought Itachi and she got destroyed. Choza is Chouji's father and Shizune is skilled byt not that impressive.


Meh Been a while, looks like i'm wrong here who was it that orochimaru fought during the chunin exam?


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## Giovanni Rild (Feb 27, 2007)

Hale said:


> Meh Been a while, looks like i'm wrong here who was it that orochimaru fought during the chunin exam?



Anko, and she got pwned


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## Gunners (Feb 27, 2007)

> In raw power I meant. Name a jonin that can do what Avatar top tiers can do with justus.


Kisame.......................


> Name a Kage that can erupt volcanoes, sink islands, etc


Volcanoes don't exist in Naruto, and Naruto characters don't bend what is present so they wouldn't be able too pull open the Volcano, neither would hulk or Superman. They could go around blazing everything with Katons of that size though, oil+fire combo.


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## Superrazien (Feb 27, 2007)

Indignation said:


> In raw power I meant. Name a jonin that can do what Avatar top tiers can do with justus.
> 
> Name a Kage that can erupt volcanoes, sink islands, etc



Well raw power doesnt always = a win. Also I dont recall ever seeing a volcano in Naruto, and why would they sink Islands it doesnt fit the show.


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 27, 2007)

Space said:


> In that case, welcome to the OBD. Goku cant IT without a ki signature or a place he's visited before in mind. If someone like the Flash does not have ki, Gokus technique is useless.



Um, why are you saying welcome?  You just said the exact same thing I just did.  Goku can't use IT against people who don't have ki since it isn't their energy in their universe, and IT needs a ki signature.


----------



## Finn Mac Cool (Feb 27, 2007)

Indignation said:


> In raw power I meant. Name a jonin that can do what Avatar top tiers can do with justus.
> 
> Name a Kage that can erupt volcanoes, sink islands, etc



Volcano erupting and island sinking have only been shown being down by Avatars in flashbacks.  However, they're all dead and not included in this fight; the only Avatar they've got is Aang, who hasn't displayed any feats that are anywhere near as powerful.

And I'd like to point out that Kisame spit a frickin' lake out of his mouth, Gaara lifted enough sand into the air to drown an entire city, Temari's summon can tear a forest down with one strike, and even Deidara's smaller explosions could turn a city block into a smoldering crater.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 27, 2007)

Finn Mac Cool said:


> Volcano erupting and island sinking have only been shown being down by Avatars in flashbacks.  However, they're all dead and not included in this fight; the only Avatar they've got is Aang, who hasn't displayed any feats that are anywhere near as powerful.
> 
> And I'd like to point out that Kisame spit a frickin' lake out of his mouth, Gaara lifted enough sand into the air to drown an entire city, Temari's summon can tear a forest down with one strike, and even Deidara's smaller explosions could turn a city block into a smoldering crater.




Deidara's 18 wasn't near strong enough to take out the Sand Village. Gaara is badass, I'll admit.. And Kisame, is well Kisame.

I brought up the Avatars because they brought up past Kages.


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 27, 2007)

jasononline said:


> Um, why are you saying welcome?  You just said the exact same thing I just did.  Goku can't use IT against people who don't have ki since it isn't their energy in their universe, and IT needs a ki signature.



Actually Im pretty sure he said he either needs a ki signal or needs to know where he is going.


----------



## Kai (Feb 27, 2007)

Indignation said:


> I can compare. Is Choji fast? Is Base Naruto fast?  That wasn't the whole kingdom. Wait a sec, Gaara is a King?



Oh, god now you're prolonging this fight with even more predictable bias. 

Deidara can blow up an entire kingdom, I said. I don't see where you're getting Gaara being king or kingdoms in Naruto. Obviously, kingdom referring to "Earth Kingdom".

Also, nitpicking to 2 minor genins is hardly counting for anything. Point is, Naruto outstrips Avatar in speed, stealth, power, and techniques.

But... if you want to play that game, then alright. Here's fresh out of the academy Team 7.


You have no idea the beating Avatarverse would get.



			
				Indignation said:
			
		

> Certain indivuals are fast, not every living person in narutoverse


They are generally faster than normal human beings. The people in the Avatarverse have base speed equal to our world. They have no super speed feats. Even a genin can speedblitz them.





			
				Indignation said:
			
		

> And you are underestimating Avatarverse. Aang has greater feats than those weakling jonin. Bending>>>>>>>>>>>>Ninjustu


Yeah, Aang, your trump card. A 12 year old boy who has low jounin power, whilst your comparing him to hundreds of various Jounin in the Narutoverse.

Also, your godly Avatar state takes time to activate, in which we saw Aang get knocked out by a simple fire attack by Azula. Hardly to praise about his durability, eh?

Edit: 


			
				Jasononline said:
			
		

> Um, why are you saying welcome? You just said the exact same thing I just did. Goku can't use IT against people who don't have ki since it isn't their energy in their universe, and IT needs a ki signature.


My apologies then, I thought you were agreeing with the other person.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 27, 2007)

Space said:


> Oh, god now you're prolonging this fight with even more predictable bias.
> 
> Deidara can blow up an entire kingdom, I said. I don't see where you're getting Gaara being king or kingdoms in Naruto. Obviously, kingdom referring to "Earth Kingdom".
> 
> ...



You are full of shit. That's obvious. Ba Sing Se is larger than all of the nin villages combined. So he cannot blow up Ba Sing Se, He  couldn't blow up a damn village.

And you are dodging the fact that I'm right about not all Naruto characters having beyond human speed.



> Also, your godly Avatar state takes time to activate, in which we saw Aang get knocked out by a simple fire attack by Azula. Hardly to praise about his durability, eh?



She shot Aang in the heart with a Lightning bolt, you fucking twit!! Would Naruto survive a Lightning blot in the heart? Fuck no!! You fanboy.


Let me say it again, fool


She shot Aang in the heart with a damn Lightning bolt,


----------



## ~Shin~ (Feb 27, 2007)

> You are full of shit. That's obvious. Ba Sing Se is larger than all of the nin villages combined. So he cannot blow up Ba Sing Se, He couldn't blow up a damn village.



Deidara's #18 never hit the village if I'm not mistaken. Gaara blocked it with his sand.



> She shot Aang in the heart with a Lightning bolt, you fucking twit!! Would Naruto survive a Lightning blot in the heart? Fuck no!! You fanboy.



What's he trying to say is that you can defeat Aang before he goes into Avatar state


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 27, 2007)

~Shin~ said:


> Deidara's #18 never hit the village if I'm not mistaken. Gaara blocked it with his sand.
> 
> 
> 
> What's he trying to say is that you can defeat Aang before he goes into Avatar state



He said Aang got downed by a simple fire attack, which is a lie.

And Ba Sing Se is way bigger than the Sand Village


*Spoiler*: __ 








18 wasn't enough to take out the Sand Village.


----------



## Halcyon Days (Feb 27, 2007)

^^^^ now thats true Ba sing SE is big as hell,I dont think # 18 could destroy the whole thing, but i still go for Naruo verse.


----------



## haha1247 (Feb 27, 2007)

couldn't aang just bend away the birds?...


----------



## Limit_Tester (Feb 27, 2007)

Indignation said:


> You are the biased one, my foe.
> 
> I have reasons for my claim. You are gonna say some bullshit about speed, but half these guys never shown a speed feat.
> 
> You hate to admit that something not Japanese  giving Naruto a run for it's money



The ironic thing is I actually think Avatar is a better show at this point. And your volcano erupting/island sinking feats are either in the intro or in flashbacks. The difference in power is just so obvious that there is no point in doing a big-ass post.

Edit: And yes, every single ninja ever has super human speed. Not all of them are drastically faster, but all of them are inhumanly fast.


----------



## Kai (Feb 27, 2007)

Indignation said:


> You are full of shit. That's obvious. Ba Sing Se is larger than all of the nin villages combined. So he cannot blow up Ba Sing Se, *He  couldn't blow up a damn village*.



This statement is just full of blind nonsense. It's harder to do that when you're facing against the strongest ninja in the entire village on his own turf.



			
				Indignation said:
			
		

> And you are dodging the fact that I'm right about not all Naruto characters having beyond human speed.


Why would I want to dodge that 1 sided argument...

I'm saying 99% of shinobi in the Narutoverse can outstrip benders in speed, and you go on and nitpick Chouji and Base Naruto(<-- in which I actually had the nerve to play your game and show you a scan to prove my point) which in turn you probably ignored.




			
				Indignation said:
			
		

> She shot Aang in the heart with a Lightning bolt, you fucking twit!! Would Naruto survive a Lightning blot in the heart? Fuck no!! You fanboy.
> 
> 
> Let me say it again, fool
> ...



And Kabuto basically cut/slit Naruto's heart to the point it was beyond repair even for the best medic in the Narutoverse.

Stop inflating the situation(literally). Aang didn't receive a lightning bolt to his naked heart, and Azula's lightning is far from the power of a real lightning bolt.

You have no right to call someone else being a fanboy when you begin 1 sided arguments and nitpick just to piss people off. Besides, we're on a Naruto forum. You would expect to see Naruto fans.


----------



## Kisame. (Feb 27, 2007)

Narutoverse has the speed and variablity and power advantage in most circumstances.

How can Anyone beat the brokenness that is Hirashin?


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 27, 2007)

> And Kabuto basically cut/slit Naruto's heart to the point it was beyond repair even for the best medic in the Narutoverse.



I forgot about that, and now that I think of it Tsuande can mess up the peoples motor functions pretty bad. Oh and dont forget Naruto survived getting piledriven straight into the ground off a high cliff at the valley of the end, his skull hit straight rock.


----------



## Limit_Tester (Feb 27, 2007)

Superrazien said:


> I forgot about that, and now that I think of it Tsuande can mess up the peoples motor functions pretty bad. Oh and dont forget Naruto survived getting piledriven straight into the ground off a high cliff at the valley of the end, his skull hit straight rock.



Yeah that piledriver might have only been the anime but Naruto durability easily outclasses Avatarverse.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 28, 2007)

@Limit_Tester, Space: I already proven my point. You are the one's who are biased. When you said Aang got hit by a fireball, you shown that you didn't know shit.

He got hit by lightning, not a fire attack.



> Also, your godly Avatar state takes time to activate, in which we saw Aang get knocked out by a simple fire attack by Azula. Hardly to praise about his durability, eh?



I did my job. Good day. None of you watch Avatar probably. Probably posted in the hate on American animation.  You are uninformed. I proven it.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 28, 2007)

Be civil, everyone.


----------



## Limit_Tester (Feb 28, 2007)

Indignation said:


> @Limit_Tester, Space: I already proven my point. You are the one's who are biased. When you said Aang got hit by a fireball, you shown that you didn't know shit.
> 
> He got hit by lightning, not a fire attack.
> 
> ...



Actually I believe there is an ongoing debate whether Azula uses blue fire or lightning. And I believe you of all people should know that I hold no bias for Naruto. I have watched every single episode of Avatar. Supposedly you have read up to the time skip in Naruto. That should be enough to tell you the outcome of this fight. Unfortunately, you have a raging hard-on for Avatar and the lack of blood flow to your brain has made you incapable of rational thought.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 28, 2007)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Be civil, everyone.



They are the ones that ignore whatever I post and mindlessly proclaim crap without proof. 

You can't tack number on a person who don't have speed feats at all. It's just made-up crap then!!

I exposed em once. I can do it again.



Limit_Tester said:


> Actually I believe there is an ongoing debate whether Azula uses blue fire or lightning. And I believe you of all people should know that I hold no bias for Naruto. I have watched every single episode of Avatar. Supposedly you have read up to the time skip in Naruto. That should be enough to tell you the outcome of this fight. Unfortunately, you have a raging hard-on for Avatar and the lack of blood flow to your brain has made you incapable of rational thought.



You are wrong.  You claim that everybody in narutoverse. move at superhuman speed.

I say it is a lie because over half of them don't have speed feats. 
I have fact, you have assumption.

And that was lightning she hit him with. You would know that if you watched.


----------



## Kai (Feb 28, 2007)

Indignation said:


> *They are the ones that ignore whatever I post and mindlessly proclaim crap without proof. *
> You can't tack number on a person who don't have speed feats at all. It's just made-up crap then!!
> 
> I exposed em once. I can do it again.



Oh, why am I talking to a brick wall. I posted 3 scans, and you have not even attempted to give me a *single* hypothetical scenario where the Avatarverse could be victorious over the Narutoverse.

I present proof and scenarios to you, and instead you choose to once again nitpick and choose a sentence where I made a minor mistake and wrote a fire attack instead of lightning. For the love of my grandma, she's a firebender and she performs the fire arts, and the fact that you suddenly become ignorant from all my facts makes you a bit immature.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 28, 2007)

Space said:


> Oh, why am I talking to a brick wall. I posted 3 scans, and you have not even attempted to give me a *single* hypothetical scenario where the Avatarverse could be victorious over the Narutoverse.
> 
> I present proof and scenarios to you, and instead you choose to once again nitpick and choose a sentence where I made a minor mistake and wrote a fire attack instead of lightning. For the love of my grandma, she's a firebender and she performs the fire arts, and the fact that you suddenly become ignorant from all my facts makes you a bit immature.



I gave you scenarios. Other people gave you scenarios. You believe that everyone in Narutoverse is a speedster, which is false. You make it sound like the Ramen Girl is a speedster.

You believe 18 is powerful enough to take out Ba Sing Se with is false. The blast wasn't enough to take out the whole sand village. And The Sand Village is a mere ant in size compared to Ba Sing Se. 

As for durability and jumping height, you need to watch avatar fights again. That wasn't human. Watch how far Azula leaps into the air and other parts of the fights.


----------



## Limit_Tester (Feb 28, 2007)

Holy shit Rild. Azula is one person. She is also one of the most powerful people in Avatarverse. She is basically the equivalent of Itachi in Naruto. Her speed feats are outdone by genins. And the literal definition of super-human speed is speed that cannot be obtained by a human. And that is exactly what every single ninja is capable of doing.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 28, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Holy shit Rild. Azula is one person. She is also one of the most powerful people in Avatarverse. She is basically the equivalent of Itachi in Naruto. Her speed feats are outdone by genins. And the literal definition of super-human speed is speed that cannot be obtained by a human. And that is exactly what every single ninja is capable of doing.



Not if they lack speed feats bub. Get that through your thick skull.


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Feb 28, 2007)

Indignation said:


> Not if they lack speed feats bub. Get that through your thick skull.



By that logic then you can only use benders shown thus far in the show, because no one else in Avatarverse has shown bending feats.


----------



## Kai (Feb 28, 2007)

Indignation said:


> I gave you scenarios. Other people gave you scenarios. *You believe that everyone in Narutoverse is a speedster*, which is false. You make it sound like the Ramen Girl is a speedster.


Need I remind you, that no you're not the oracle so stop putting words into my mouth. Anyways, the people in the Narutoverse have the capability to reach superhuman speeds if they worked towards it. Avatarverse, unfortunately, can not which is a severe disadvantage. Can you see that? Of course you can't, because you expect everyone in the Avatarverse to be at the standards as Avatar state Aang and Azula.

Did you bother to take a glimpse at the scan I recently posted? Fresh out of the academy 12 year olds in Naruto can speedblitz many people the Avatarverse has to offer.



			
				Indignation said:
			
		

> You believe 18 is powerful enough to take out Ba Sing Se with is false. The blast wasn't enough to take out the whole sand village. And The Sand Village is a mere ant in size compared to Ba Sing Se.


Eh, how much #18 blows up means little to me. It's obvious it can strip away a good portion of Ba Sing Se, and that would be from the little amount of clay he had. If he brings a full load of clay and makes a gigantic #18, the Earth Kingdom will be a burial ground.



			
				Indignation said:
			
		

> The blast wasn't enough to take out the whole sand village


..and where was this stated or even implied? Oh, and before you go off and reply, no assumptions, speculations, or biased opinions.



			
				Indignation said:
			
		

> As for durability and jumping height, you need to watch avatar fights again. That wasn't human. Watch how far Azula leaps into the air and other parts of the fights.


A grasshopper can jump extraordinary heights. Oh lord the Narutoverse pales in comparison. I was wrong, You showed me the light of *pure bias. *

lol @ your earlier post about the Dai Li, a small group of people you imply as an army and Sokka being as smart as Shikamaru. I can't continue this nonsense, you nitpick which irritates me more than anything else you've done in this thread. Don't let fanboyism cloud your judgement.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 28, 2007)

jasononline said:


> By that logic then you can only use benders shown thus far in the show, because no one else in Avatarverse has shown bending feats.



Yes. I was only gonna do that in the first place. Grunts have feats. Firebender Soliders haver feats, Dai Li Have feats.

But named character that don't have speed feats. Oozai has no feats at all. It would be non-sense to assume what Oozai can do.

Jeong Jeong is a firebending master, but he didn't do crap for feats, I won't assume he can do whatever Iroh or Azula can do.

Kisame is worlds stronger than Zabuza, but I won't assume that Kisame can do all of Zubuza's  water justus.

@ Spase: I posted Sokka prep feats. You probably didn't bother to read them. And who cares about potential, no feats = no go. You are the biased one.


----------



## Limit_Tester (Feb 28, 2007)

Indignation said:


> Jeong Jeong is a firebending master, but he didn't do crap for feats, I won't assume he can do whatever Iroh or Azula can do.



This just further proves my point. He is a fire-bending *master* but he doesn't have shit for feats. As for super human speed. How about the billion times ninjas are shown jumping through random forests?


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 28, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> This just further proves my point. He is a fire-bending *master* but he doesn't have shit for feats. As for super human speed. How about the billion times ninjas are shown jumping through random forests?



Point is? Something I'm missing? Ty Lee and Aang hop though trees all the time. 

No speed feat = no speed. and that crap in inconsistent. How slow Naruto  is.


----------



## Limit_Tester (Feb 28, 2007)

Yes. The main characters of Avatar are super-human. Pretty sure we established that 14 pages ago. Honestly, I don't have the patience to look up scans, especially when you already ignore the evidence posted already Must be that eye problem of yours. This will be my last post. Where is a naruto fanboy when you need one?


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 28, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Yes. The main characters of Avatar are super-human. Pretty sure we established that 14 pages ago. Honestly, I don't have the patience to look up scans, especially when you already ignore the evidence posted already Must be that eye problem of yours. This will be my last post. Where is a naruto fanboy when you need one?



And you ignore everything that makes you wrong. I thought you said they were plain ole humans.

I take this as a victory. You have no answer for it. You just dodged and dodged.  

You just assumed while I stomped those assumptions in the dirt.

Now walk away in defeat.


----------



## Chocochip (Feb 28, 2007)

^while aang adn saka and thme seem super human, they dont seeem anything drastically super human. i mean did you see the sword fight between jace and zaku?

let me also tel you why naruto is stronger. the avatar is based on elements. just pure elements. so water doesnt get stronger than it can get. neither does fire except for lighting, wind, or rock(metal if you want). this is about all you have in your arsenal to beat people with summons that are big as 1/10 of ba sing sei with a oil jutsu that can just be spat on on any fire nation person and then they cant bend. how about itachis MS fire. how to stop that. or how do you stop someone so fast that they can move fast enough to the point where you see multiples of them, like lee or even kakashi

what abou kagebushins? see narutos have regular elements, stronger elements(aka itachis black fire or the 3rds fire), summons, stronger taijutsu or punches and kicks(if you deny this you are stupid and go look up gai or even lee or and gennin), genjutsu, which inthis case donst work, i'll just say that just so you dont go all stupid, they have explosive tags, numbers of weapons they can throw at multiple time with out seeing and stiilll hit targets, they can go underground, they have puppets, they have people who can pick of big chouji, that insane strentgh of jiroubou and he was a onl a genin, they have people that control iron better than toff aka third kazekage, and they have other types of bushins that take almost no energy and it would ultimately fool someone form avatar verse, they have people liek kmimaro which would prolly kill at least 100+ people, too fast and agile for any of them. another thing, narutoverse ninjas are not only stronger and faster, they are more stealthy and have a better teamwork system. also their are more ninjas than benders in avatar. and fire benders are totally useless cause katon at close range never hits how the hell is a slower more predictable fire gonna hit whne the opponent knwos thats the only thing in your arsenal. waht stops anyone from like haku to just throwing a needle and it not working?



they also have a way stronger elemental person too..think of gaara, he is like even better at controling sand than that stupid girl that controls lighting, did you see desert avalanche? it would take about 50 earthbenders just to do that. and than he can do it all over again. any rocks thrown at him can just be crushed into sand in mid air. he can just drown them with avalanche. i mean, no matter waht you say, he can do it.

waht the hell do they have against sasoris puppets. they arent fast enough and dont have chiyo controlling them so they can dogde it liek sakura, then  they all die. sasori himself can prolly take bansing sei. he tooka country after all, which was proly stronger than ba sing sei, i mean its big, but only the soldiers can earthbend.

and hidan, they are way to slow to ever chop any of him, and he just needs blood from them, elemental attacks like avatar are ueless against him, just like how kazuka(who by the way has a way stronger bigger elemental attack) shot him and it didnt matter. than he can just get peopls blod and kill them

itachi hmm would never be caught cause his eyes will predict avatars one direciton move, and he can just use any of his exploding kagebushins.

kisame>all water benders, he made a lake from spit. wtf does any water bender have on that. his sword will bop them, his taijutsu is greater than gaiso tats all there is needed

any genin or above can stand on water while only water benders can do that.
now any genin can sstand upside down walk up trees and be stealthy and just assassinate people. what stops that? seriously that taijutsu girl is a very sad version of neji, neji can totally kill her, he doesnt even need to touch people to attack them as shown when the jounin head master hyuuga clan guy killed 22 ninjas in one attack with around a 15 feet radius around all of them.


once again, any one like saaka or jace are useless, which means half the water tribe and anyone using weapons, and that kiyoki village or something with the chicks with fans.

deidara can just blow people up and no one can catch him from the skies. aang as if  the explosion goes near aang , aang will still be affected


another thing. aang, lets take a good long thought. he onl mastered air, barely knows crap about fire, and is aan okay earth and pretty good water bender. if he fought kakuza, including all the hearts, he would die. kakuza has black fire and a each attack except the earth attack(which can only be hurt by lighting which was only shown by like 3 people) which gives him a unbreakable armor which means everyone would be uselss against him, and his attacks have an amazing range. now even if aang killed him once, he would sitll have to do it 4 more times. and i still see aand dieing first shot.

once aang goes avatar state, a big summon like manda or gamma can take care of that, or a hell swamp.

JARAIYA can also hell swamp people, i mean his drugged hell swamp can prolly take a 100+ people, now thing of undrugged hell swamp. the gooey thing is nt exactly water that can be bend and their hadn s would be stuck so they couldnt bend anyways.

shikamaru or any shadow person can use stuff with no elements thus giving an easy win. 

what the hell would they do against chouji or choujis dad huh? die. there is nothing in their arsenal except avatar state that can hurt something that big.

also, did you not see the fire dragon the oakge shot ou his mouth. that was fricken crazy, wtf i never saw anyone do anythign that strong, not even the stupid lighitng girl. plus she doesnt control alot of it, its just conosidered strong, and i doesnt even kill you. kakshi cna cut her fricken lighitng and MS her back to wherever the hell she came from.

so all together basically ninjas are stronger faster steathier smarter plus their are more. wow...i won.


----------



## Kai (Feb 28, 2007)

Indignation said:


> @ Spase: I posted Sokka prep feats. You probably didn't bother to read them. And who cares about potential, no feats = no go. You are the biased one.



Thanks for nitpicking once again. I'm through with you.

Edit: But anyway, seeing how Tai  Li rendered Sokka useless in about 5 seconds, a genin Neji could do the same thing. Sokka is useless in this fight.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 28, 2007)

Space said:


> Thanks for nitpicking once again. I'm through with you.
> 
> Edit: But anyway, seeing how Tai  Li rendered Sokka useless in about 5 seconds, a genin Neji could do the same thing. Sokka is useless in this fight.



His brains, you fool. He can just sit back and use his brain.  Man, you people are culeless


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 28, 2007)

Indignation said:


> Not if they lack speed feats bub. Get that through your thick skull.



Dumb  statement, Ninjas are pretty much the villages army, there speed, strength, and skill feats have to be better than the average person or how the hell would they be any use?


----------



## Jin22 (Feb 28, 2007)

I thought I was a little too adult for Nickelodeon, but Avatar is pretty sweet. 

From what I've seen though I'd give the win to the Naruto Universe.


----------



## Finn Mac Cool (Feb 28, 2007)

As far as speed feats go, consider this:  Sakura demonstrated superhuman speed during the Chuunin exams, but she has never once been commented on as being a fast character; she's considered to be a pretty weak ninja until Part 2, in fact.  So, if Sakura can perform a substitution jutsu in the fraction of a second it takes a knife to travel through the air, but she's not considered anything special, then it can be inferred that she is, at most, only slightly faster then the average Genin.  Meaning almost every character in the Narutoverse who has become a ninja has reaction time surpassing that of any Avatar character.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 28, 2007)

Finn Mac Cool said:


> As far as speed feats go, consider this:  Sakura demonstrated superhuman speed during the Chuunin exams, but she has never once been commented on as being a fast character; she's considered to be a pretty weak ninja until Part 2, in fact.  So, if Sakura can perform a substitution jutsu in the fraction of a second it takes a knife to travel through the air, but she's not considered anything special, then it can be inferred that she is, at most, only slightly faster then the average Genin.  Meaning almost every character in the Narutoverse who has become a ninja has reaction time surpassing that of any Avatar character.




Substitution is a ninja teleport with no justification. That's not speed


----------



## ~Shin~ (Feb 28, 2007)

> Substitution is a ninja teleport with no justification. That's not speed



For the purposes of this battle, it can be used as "combat speed"


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Feb 28, 2007)

~Shin~ said:


> For the purposes of this battle, it can be used as "combat speed"



Ok then.


----------



## Endless Mike (Feb 28, 2007)

Indignation said:


> I'm talking about No-name characters. Are you accusing me of being biased?



Everyone is biased to some extent.


----------



## Kai (Feb 28, 2007)

Indignation said:


> His brains, you fool. He can just sit back and use his brain.  Man, you people are culeless



The same brains that he was smart enough to drink cactus water that would make him horribly delirius? Or his huge weakness of girls? Or the times when all the misfortune happens to him for the comedy of the show?

Any genin can take Sokka, hes no Shika, any shinobi can see through all his obvious blunt traps, and a boomerang is his only friend.

Yeah, here comes your childish nitpicking once again. Provide actual arguments to your side instead of raising your post count by 1 every single time you post, Rild.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Mar 1, 2007)

Space said:


> The same brains that he was smart enough to drink cactus water that would make him horribly delirius? Or his huge weakness of girls? Or the times when all the misfortune happens to him for the comedy of the show?
> 
> Any genin can take Sokka, hes no Shika, any shinobi can see through all his obvious blunt traps, and a boomerang is his only friend.
> 
> Yeah, here comes your childish nitpicking once again. Provide actual arguments to your side instead of raising your post count by 1 every single time you post, Rild.




He wasn't psychic. How was he supposed to know that that cactus was gonna make him hallucinate?

Shika would fell for the same damn thing, thirsty in a derset.



> Any genin can take Sokka, hes no Shika, any shinobi can see through all his obvious blunt traps, and a boomerang is his only friend.



Another mistake I see. Like Avatar Aang being shot down with a little bit of fire. Sokka has more than a boomerang.

Shikamaru is nothing near perfect. Your post fails because you are misinformed. 

I shot you down again.


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## Gunshin (Mar 1, 2007)

Indignation said:


> Not if they lack speed feats bub. Get that through your thick skull.


Ambush at the arena during the Chuunin Exams. Tons of Generic Shinobi are moving so fast that they are depicted as black blurs zipping through all corners of the arena. 

Its really painfully obvious that normal Naruto characters are faster than Avatar regulars. Come on~ generic Naruto nins zip through trees and forrest like the wind... Avatar mains have trouble getting up trees (refer to Jet's hideout).


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## Giovanni Rild (Mar 1, 2007)

Gunshin said:


> Ambush at the arena during the Chuunin Exams. Tons of Generic Shinobi are moving so fast that they are depicted as black blurs zipping through all corners of the arena.
> 
> Its really painfully obvious that normal Naruto characters are faster than Avatar regulars. Come on~ generic Naruto nins zip through trees and forrest like the wind... Avatar mains have trouble getting up trees (refer to Jet's hideout).



I highly doubt they were genin or chunin. They were probably all jounin


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## Superrazien (Mar 1, 2007)

> Another mistake I see. Like Avatar Aang being shot down with a little bit of fire. Sokka has more than a boomerang.
> 
> Shikamaru is nothing near perfect. Your post fails because you are misinformed.
> 
> I shot you down again



Post proof of Sokka having and IQ of 200, Post Proof of him planning out an entire fight with about 2 or 300 so moves, Show proof of Sokka taking on a semi immortal who only needs a drop of your own blood to kill you, show him beating by himself just because of his planning.

Sorry I should be specific since he hasnt done anything like that, show something similar or greater than those feats by Shikamaru.


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## Finn Mac Cool (Mar 1, 2007)

As I said before, Sakura displayed superhuman reflexes, and her physical fighting abilities were considered, at best, slightly above average for a Genin, and quite possibly even average or sub-average.  Therefore, when talking about random, nameless ninja, my rule of thumb is that, unless given a reason to think otherwise, assume their strength and speed are at least equal to pre-skip Sakura.


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## Kai (Mar 1, 2007)

Indignation said:


> He wasn't psychic. How was he supposed to know that that cactus was gonna make him hallucinate?
> 
> *Shika would fell for the same damn thing, thirsty in a derset*.


Please. Katara was even suspicious of the cactus and wouldn't drink water from it. Katara > Shikamaru now?


Another mistake I see. Like Avatar Aang being shot down with a little bit of fire. *Sokka has more than a boomerang.*
Shikamaru is nothing near perfect. Your post fails because you are misinformed.[/Quote]
Anyone can say that. You praise Sokka too highly, he isn't the elite strategist you make him out to be. 

Shikamaru is on a whole other tier than Sokka, you can't compare between these two characters with the exception of hair.



			
				DarkOrchid said:
			
		

> I shot you down again.


You're shooting yourself in the foot by presenting arguments full of holes.


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## Giovanni Rild (Mar 1, 2007)

Space said:


> Please. Katara was even suspicious of the cactus and wouldn't drink water from it. Katara > Shikamaru now?
> 
> 
> Another mistake I see. Like Avatar Aang being shot down with a little bit of fire. *Sokka has more than a boomerang.*
> Shikamaru is nothing near perfect. Your post fails because you are misinformed.



Anyone can say that. You praise Sokka too highly, he isn't the elite strategist you make him out to be. 

Shikamaru is on a whole other tier than Sokka, you can't compare between these two characters with the exception of hair.


You're shooting yourself in the foot by presenting arguments full of holes.[/QUOTE]

Your arguments are full of holes. Shikamaru is too highly regarded here.


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## Kai (Mar 2, 2007)

Indignation said:


> Your arguments are full of holes. Shikamaru is too highly regarded here.



Ok, you are stating your opinion with no evidence in an indefinite cyclical pattern. The conclusion is that the Narutoverse is the victor.


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## Giovanni Rild (Mar 2, 2007)

Space said:


> Ok, you are stating your opinion with no evidence in an indefinite cyclical pattern. The conclusion is that the Narutoverse is the victor.



To you it may. But I see a different outcome.


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## Omega id (Apr 2, 2007)

Locard said:


> Narutoverse wins but not easily, though.
> 
> Personally i dislike Avatar, i cant stand an anime with no hot babes at all. seriously, wtf?
> Actually, all people there are utterly ugly. i wonder why.



My opinion wont be biased like this guy's.

Though I gotta defend Avatar. It's not an anime and its not influenced by the Japs and I'm greatful for that because I wont have to put up with typical Japanese bullshit.

Examples such as:

1) Girls blushing for no reason
2) characters thinking to themselves for 5mins
3) characters speaking the other persons name out loud in a soft voice when ever they give a "motivational" speech (ie. Naruto: I will bring Sasuke back! Dattebayo... Sakura: Naruto...)

If you feel like you have to be attracted to a cartoon character go watch some hentai and stop bashing a good series for not having hot hand drawn girls.

Thats what makes Avatar greater than Naruto IMO, its got a mix of both Western and Eastern elements when it comes to development.

But back on the subject. Naruto easily beats Avatar universe because Naruto has too many broken characters. Kyubi Naruto himself is the equivalent to Aang in his Avatar state as I've seen similar destructive powers from both. But considering that the more tails come out the stronger Kyubi Naruto gets not even the Avatar states will help Aang.

Then theres Itachi with his Dojutsu and Genjutsu which can apparently effect you by looking at his finger. Avatar universe characters dont know shit about Genjutsu's so they will all pretty much fall for it. But we all know Sarutobi alone... hell not even him. Rock Lee would easily handle all the Avatar characters.


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## Omega id (Apr 2, 2007)

thegoodjae said:
			
		

> did you see desert avalanche? it would take about 50 earthbenders just to do that.



Thats not entirely true or fair, first of all Earth Benders bend Earth, not Sand. Much like how Gaara can only manipulate sand and not solid rock. Although Sand is a part of Earth you never see an Earth Bender bending sand so its not known if they can actually do it. Even if they could the sand probably wont be as damaging as Gaara's because Gaara's sand has Chakra in it which he uses to add pressure (which is why desert coffin is possible, theres no other way to explain how gaara making a fist = your body blowing up, cause if Gaara ONLY manipulated sand w/o applying chakra to it all he would really do is bury someone alive in mid air while that person would end up digging themselves out).

Second, Earth benders can create tunnels, lift giant pillars from up the ground by just stomping their foot down and bring out huge boulders. On a side note they can do whatever they want with the earth, they could even apply it to their own bodies as an additional shield.

I was going to answer your Elements thing but I realized how much I was typing and how much more I had to type so I deleted it and didn't want to bother trying to prove you wrong 

Elements in naruto are not stronger is all I can say. If anything they are on par or the elements in Avatar are stronger. Then again Naruto's excuse for every single thing they do is Chakra. So in naruto anything is possible with Chakra.

Basically, these are the only things I see Avatar characters not standing a chance against:

-Itachi
-Kyubi Naruto
-anyone with Rock/Gai-like speed (because the speed the characters display in avatar are more realistic and not DBZ crap).

Then again Naruto characters are all stupid (except Shikamaru and supposedly Kakashi who has all the special traits in the battle field but yet falls for naruto's dumb shit). So I wouldn't be suprised if they were all outdone by strategy alone.


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## The last Dalek (Apr 2, 2007)

Actualy there have been sand benders but they were no where near Gaaras level.

Aang is a big threat but Kakashi can just send him to anothere dimension as goes into the avatar state leving the rest of the Avatarveres wich nowere near the Narutoverses level.


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## Omega id (Apr 2, 2007)

The only two threats I actually see in Avatar are Aang and Toph.

Toph is good at calculating the speed and the distance of her opponents due to her little DareDevil eyes. I wouldn't be suprised if she was also able to determine the distance that her opponent is about to jump.

On top of that she seems like the only really useful character in Avatar. The only time she is helpless is either in the air, when on ice or floating on water. She's completely blind there but she can pretty much do anything she desires with the earth.

Aang can easily deflect any fireballs with his wooden stick and bat it back at his opponents. He can manipulate the 4 basic elements himself so if you threw wind / water / earth (I dont remember if he mastered fire though he did bend it a bit) he would probably just catch it and throw it back by bending it.

I think as far as the basics go Avatar has a chance. But Naruto just has too much broken abilities. How do you make one of the Akatsuki members Immortal? I just dont get that. Shippuden really ran a spear through the Naruto series imo =/

Sooner or later Ninja's will have the power to destroy a planet or make you kill yourself just by staring at you.


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