# Bioshock Infinite (PS3/360/PC)



## Helix (Aug 12, 2010)

The next Bioshock game in the franchise will take to the skies!

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV_TDxl2UIo[/YOUTUBE]




The game is projected to release in 2012 for PC, PS3, and 360.

Discuss.


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## The Boss (Aug 12, 2010)

Sort of want...


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## Sesha (Aug 12, 2010)

I thought Irrational were working on an new IP? So much for that.

Seems not even Ken Levine is above using brand popularity to market games that have little to do with their namesake.


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## Skylit (Aug 12, 2010)

At the end of this trailer... I JIZZED IN MY PANTS.


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## Buskuv (Aug 12, 2010)

Degree of want depends on how they go about it.

I played Bioshock 2; that I will never forget.


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## Wesley (Aug 12, 2010)

How will this make any sense?  The fountain for Rapture was a sea slug.  There's no reason for a flying city.


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## crazymtf (Aug 12, 2010)

Can't wait!


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## Buskuv (Aug 12, 2010)

Wesley said:


> How will this make any sense?  The fountain for Rapture was a sea slug.  There's no reason for a flying city.



To the shareholders, anything is possible!


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## ExoSkel (Aug 12, 2010)

What's next, in space?

Oh wait... there already is.


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## shiki-fuujin (Aug 12, 2010)

I just jizzed in my mouth-Now while cleaning up i realized....how is that possible-the floating city and all?


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## Maxi (Aug 12, 2010)

In the Skies huh?
I hope that's not gonna destroy the whole purpose of what made Bioshock so awesome and besides i still gotta play Bioshock 2 .


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## Solon Solute (Aug 12, 2010)

As a *huge* Bioshock fan, and being highly disappointed with Bioshock 2, Im a little iffy about this, though the concept seems pretty good.

Don't let me down again, 2K...


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## Solon Solute (Aug 12, 2010)

Wait a minute. Ken and the original team are working on this?


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## C_Akutabi (Aug 12, 2010)

Next thing you know they'll have Bioshock in space...

Oh wait...


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## Lucius (Aug 12, 2010)

^i actually had to think for a second

at any rate this looks freaking amazing. made my day. then i realized we won't see this b4 2012 and was sad again.

it's like baking the world greatest cookie and showing it to the cookie monster. the twist: the cookie is behind a gigantic glass jar that won't lift.

other news of the day: this gens consoles will last at least till 2012 !!


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## C. Hook (Aug 12, 2010)

The only thing I'm really worried about is that the setting might not be able to convey the same fear that the ocean did in Bioshock.

Also, the ending was a little cartoonish, especially compared to the first Bioshock teaser with its rather infamous "drill" scene.


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## The World (Aug 12, 2010)

^ It seemed poetic to me. 

Also what the fuck is this game about?


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## Buskuv (Aug 12, 2010)

Now that I think about it, I'm sure I'll just feel like I'm playing Rule of Rose with X-Men powers.  Not sure how I feel about it.


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## Solon Solute (Aug 12, 2010)

So apparently, there's going to be an ability in this game called "Murder of Crows" which is suppose to be a souped up version of Insect Swarm.


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## Inuhanyou (Aug 12, 2010)

Remember guys, the main people who worked on Bioshock 1 didn't work on bioshock 2, these are the ones who are working on infinite


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## Solon Solute (Aug 12, 2010)

Inuhanyou said:


> Remember guys, the main people who worked on Bioshock 1 didn't work on bioshock 2, these are the ones who are working on infinite



Precisely.



Also: 





> The setting for BioShock Infinite may seem even more fantastic and technologically advanced than rapture, but it's set in 1912, years before the events of the first game. In this adventure you play as Booker DeWitt, a disgraced former private detective who's picked up a new case. Your goal is to find a young woman who's gone missing and return her unharmed. The only problem is that she's being kept on the flying city of Columbia.
> 
> In 1900, Columbia is unveiled as a symbol of America's success as a nation. It floats around the world as a traveling World's Fair, a marvel of human innovation. But an international incident involves the city and it turns out that the airborne metropolis is also heavily armed. A confrontation occurs, and Columbia disappears into the clouds. DeWitt's lead in the case knows how to find Columbia, and how to find Elizabeth. The problem is that the city's inhabitants aren't that willing to let her, and her very strange abilities, just walk away.
> 
> ...




I'm so fucking stoked!


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## Helix (Aug 12, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> The only thing I'm really worried about is that the setting might not be able to convey the same fear that the ocean did in Bioshock.



I'm afraid of heights more than the ocean, so I think this game will do fine for me.


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## C. Hook (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm a bit afraid of heights too, but I think the ocean just helped Bioshock feel so gloomy... I'm hoping they use the setting as well here.

I just realized: It appears that in the future, Columbia has relocated to the planet Elysia and been renamed Skytown. 

But seriously, I'm lovin' this. What I really want to know is how the people here got their powers; there's no ADAM slug, so there must be something new.


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## C_Akutabi (Aug 12, 2010)

an ADAM bird


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## Stalin (Aug 12, 2010)

The problem with bioshock 2 was that it was the same as the first game. This puts an interesting twist on things.


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## Corran (Aug 12, 2010)

Looks fantastic.
Really interested to see the what those versions of "big daddies" look like.

2012? Oh comon! I fucking hate when studios announce their games so early.


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## bigduo209 (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm sorry but after reading demo details and reading the interviews with Ken Levine, I have to say I'm excited for this game. I seriously don't see how anyone could feel be so badly upset about this game, or criticize that this has the BioShock name on it.

Bioshock 2 wasn't made by the same guys who made Bioshock 1, so this game is taking 5 years to be made, and a lot of thought is being put in this world and it's gameplay.This game is being made with a lot of care, and I don't mind supporting their creative focus for something this interesting.

In short: Why they hatin' ?


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## Son Goku (Aug 12, 2010)

Honestly, I'd more highly believe you could hide a city in the ocean. not the sky.

I'm feeling this game would have been better as a new ip.

not something in a franchise it doesnt really relate to in a lot of ways.


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## C. Hook (Aug 13, 2010)

The Cheat said:


> The problem with bioshock 2 was that it was the same as the first game. This puts an interesting twist on things.



The combat in Bioshock 2 was a HUGE improvement over the first game's (Especially the plasmids), but yeah, other than that, they were a bit too similar.


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## Ciupy (Aug 13, 2010)

Pfft this is more like the Final Fantasy games,each set in a new universe with some similar themes.

And are you kidding me?

A floating city in 1912 would have been impossible to find..to even touch given the airplane and baloon tech they had back then..

Can't wait to play this.


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## Inuhanyou (Aug 13, 2010)

Read the plot Goku  Its not hidden or secret like Rapture was, the city was apart of the world and everyone knew about it, until it was found out that it was actually an armored tank, and after destroying a city with its guns, the conductor flew it to an unknown destination 

Personally, this is the game that should have come after bioshock 1, not bioshock 2. 

On its own, 2K Australia made a valiant effort in Bioshock 2. But even  a "valiant effort" was enough to cheapen the Rapture brand in such a way. Even the number "2" in the title disgraces the first game in a way. 

Bioshock 1 stood on its own, and Infinite probably will too.


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## ExoSkel (Aug 13, 2010)

Ciupy said:


> A floating city in 1912 would have been impossible to find..to even touch given the airplane and baloon tech they had back then..


Neither is building a vastly huge underwater city in 1946.


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## Hidd3N_NiN (Aug 13, 2010)

I am interested in this new Bioshock game although I am slightly torn that it is not being set in Rapture as both games really immersed me into the story and world of Rapture. But maybe the development team will do an equally awesome job with this and capture the same immersion and atmosphere as they did in Bioshock.

And regarding the above posts, Columbia is not a hidden city like Rapture. Also, the article on Kotaku called the city a flying Death Star, sounds interesting, lol.


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## The Boss (Aug 13, 2010)

> it's set in 1912



SOLD. I'll take 20 copies!!!!


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## Vegitto-kun (Aug 13, 2010)

The Boss said:


> SOLD. I'll take 20 copies!!!!



for what reason?

I want this game so much. I think I will prefer this to the first two games.

they bored me quite quickly

enemies = shock + shotgun


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## The Boss (Aug 13, 2010)

1912 maaaan.. fucking badass ..


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## The World (Aug 13, 2010)

Vegitto-kun said:


> for what reason?
> 
> I want this game so much. I think I will prefer this to the first two games.
> 
> ...



Get out.


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## Buskuv (Aug 13, 2010)

Who wants to bet the Titanic is somehow involved?


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## Semiotic Sacrilege (Aug 13, 2010)

Looks amazing to me. I liked Bioshock 2 a lot but it did lack the atmosphere of the first game. I'm betting this one will recapture that atmospheric feeling quite well. Love the idea of a sky city too. These guys were born to make atmospheric videogames.


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## Yagami-Kun (Aug 13, 2010)

Finally, the true (hopefully) sequel to Bioshock. Can't wait for it.


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## Wesley (Aug 13, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Who wants to bet the Titanic is somehow involved?



I'm sure there'll be some kind of reference.  Although, Columbia seems as though it'd have no knowledge of the outside world, since it's isolationist in pretty much every concieveable way.


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## Buskuv (Aug 13, 2010)

Wesley said:


> I'm sure there'll be some kind of reference.  Although, Columbia seems as though it'd have no knowledge of the outside world, since it's isolationist in pretty much every concieveable way.



Well, 1912 seems awfully specific of a date, considering it's the infamous year of the Titanic.   I don't know if we'll see it, or make some sort of metaphor with it, but I doubt the date and its significance are coincidence.


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## The World (Aug 13, 2010)

They could of went with when the Hindenburg blew up in 1937, that would be more ironic.

But I guess maybe they want to tie the Titanic with the old game being undersea? 

I dunno Irrational people are crazy.


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## Solon Solute (Aug 19, 2010)

Here's a far more detailed impressions review of Bioshock Infinite's gameplay demo, with a little more content gameplay-wise.



I highly recommend you read it.


And heres a few new pictures:


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## Angel Alexiel (Aug 19, 2010)

I'm honestly surprised how closely they run together.


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## Solon Solute (Sep 6, 2010)

> Next month's Game Informer cover isn't revealing a new game – unlike last month's Batman: Arkham City cover – but it's still got plenty to offer. Behold! Three separate BioShock Infinite covers, crafted by Irrational artist Rob Waters, that ape the old-timey, Norman Rockwell aesthetic of "The Saturday Evening Post." Unveiled during a PAX panel titled "From Concept to Cover: The Game Informer Selection Process," GI Editor-in-Chief Andy McNamara shared not only the final three covers, but the many revisions that went into each one. We've got some galleries below of each cover and its various revisions, including some commentary from both Game Informer and Irrational.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The _Him_ looks pretty awesome.



Also, here are some in-game screenshots:


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## Inuhanyou (Sep 21, 2010)




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## Zaru (Sep 21, 2010)

Those 10 minutes are... amazing.


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## Delta Shell (Sep 21, 2010)

woooooooooo that's looks ridiculous!!! I want this yesterday.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 21, 2010)

Ah, was looking for this thread.

Yea, the gameplay trailer is amazing. Love the ziplining, the crows vigor, and the giant mechanical fuckers.


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## Ciupy (Sep 21, 2010)

Oh wow..just..wow. 

The atmosphere is so thick it's palpable.

This just went up on my "DO WANT!" list.


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## Inuhanyou (Sep 21, 2010)

Its such a shame that its not coming out for like 2 years, i keep wondering why Irrational decided to hype it up now  By the time the game comes out, there won't be anyone left who'll want to buy it! :l


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## Platinum (Sep 21, 2010)

Those 10 minutes were pure awesome. I'm totally stoked for this game.


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## ExoSkel (Sep 21, 2010)

Holy shit, Big Daddy with wings... that can fly! 

Badassness of this game just went up x10.


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## crazymtf (Sep 21, 2010)

^That...kickass trailer is kickass.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 21, 2010)

You already know there's going to be at least 1 epic chase scene with "him" (aka mecha crow) chasing you down while you frantically go from zip line to zip line trying to escape.


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## Inuhanyou (Sep 22, 2010)

I just can't wait for the game, that's all


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## Eternal Pein (Sep 22, 2010)

So whats the story behind this, we just randomly leave Rapture for this sky city


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## Inuhanyou (Sep 22, 2010)

It takes place with another story, it may take place in the same world the previous Bioshock(2 didn't exist), but it has nothing to do with Andrew Ryan's undersea exploits  It takes place long before too

Remember that "Bioshock" is not defined by Big daddies, or Andrew, or even Rapture, there's a deeper meaning


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## ExoSkel (Sep 22, 2010)

Hollowed Shinigami said:


> So whats the story behind this, we just randomly leave Rapture for this sky city


Infinite takes place 40 years before Rapture was built. You are a former Pinkerton (back in the day, pinkerton = federal agent), hired by some organization and sent to Columbia (the flying city) to bring back or rescue a certain woman named Elizabeth, who has been held aboard the air-city for the last twelve years.

That's the premise of the plot.


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## breakbeat oratory (Sep 22, 2010)

It looks absolutely goddamn amazing. I haven't been this impressed from early gameplay in a long time.


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## Vegitto-kun (Sep 22, 2010)

I am not digging the woman.

she looks so bland and I don't like her voice.

but I lolled when he threw that rubble at the handyman.

THAT ONLY MADE HIM ANGRY

HE WAS ALREADY ANGRY.


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## Super Naruto (Sep 22, 2010)

Game looks fucking amazing, nuff said.


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## The World (Sep 22, 2010)

*Bioshock Infinite*

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLFy7P0isE0[/YOUTUBE]

I was literally left speechless after watching this. Can't wait for this to come out. 2012 seems so far away.


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## Blade (Sep 22, 2010)

3.37-3.40



Anyways seems very good so far.


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## Super Naruto (Sep 22, 2010)

Already a thread for this.


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## The Boss (Sep 22, 2010)




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## Maxi (Sep 22, 2010)

There is already a thread for this but thanks for sharing, bro.


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## Maxi (Sep 22, 2010)

^ Lol you seem to fap allot huh .

Anyway watching za video........

_*Edit:*_ It looks nice, i'm not sure why i'm not that enthusiastic but i guess it's because it isn't released yet. But it looks pretty awesome.


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## Shuntensatsu (Sep 22, 2010)

Maxi said:


> There is already a thread for this but thanks for sharing, bro.




There is already someone who posted that there was already a thread for this right above you.


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## Maxi (Sep 22, 2010)

i know .


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## Inuhanyou (Sep 22, 2010)

i already posted it


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## Inuhanyou (Sep 22, 2010)

First dey buy


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## Delta Shell (Sep 22, 2010)

I'm annoyed that they released this gameplay thingy so early given that it's not out until 2012.


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## Stumpy (Sep 22, 2010)

THERE IS ALREADY A THREAD FOR THIS GUYS IN CASE YOU GUYS DIDNT KNOW GUYS


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## The Boss (Sep 22, 2010)

Maxi said:


> ^ Lol you seem to fap allot huh .


Fapping is great! You should try it sometimes. 



Delta Shell said:


> I'm annoyed that they released this gameplay thingy so early given that it's not out until 2012.



That means ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT BURH.. also.. fuck them.  Making me wait till 2012.


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## Maxi (Sep 22, 2010)

The Boss said:


> Fapping is great! You should try it sometimes.



Oh you .......


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## Delta Shell (Sep 22, 2010)

The Boss said:


> Fapping is great! You should try it sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> That means ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT BURH.. also.. fuck them.  Making me wait till 2012.



Yeah I know, this is very true but the wait still seems ridonkulous (Ree-Donkey-Loose) now..


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## Aruarian (Sep 22, 2010)

postcount +1


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## Stumpy (Sep 22, 2010)

44 minutes with Kenny L. and Giant Bomb.


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## Aruarian (Sep 22, 2010)

^ No gameplay. As far as I can tell by skimming, anyway.


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## Inuhanyou (Sep 23, 2010)




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## ShangDOh (Sep 24, 2010)

I think I'll buy this game just to see if they explain how that place got that fucked up....


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## Wolfen Blitzer (Dec 14, 2010)

looks like a good game.


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## bigduo209 (Jul 8, 2011)

*Bioshock Eurogamer Preview*



To mods: Please merge with the original thread, I can't find it.


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## Suigetsu (Jul 9, 2011)

WOW! This looks like a real bioshock, unlike the fake thing that the 2nd game was. This should had been the 2nd bioshock game.


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## firefist (Jul 9, 2011)

> Although Booker and Elizabeth are separated briefly in the demo, Levine says Elizabeth will follow you everywhere in the finished game.



ah fuck it.


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## Krory (Jul 9, 2011)

Elizabeth's design still annoys me all to fuck. Looks like a poorly-designed Barbie doll.


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## Solon Solute (Oct 28, 2011)




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## Inuhanyou (Oct 28, 2011)

That isn't new


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## The World (Oct 28, 2011)

Krory said:


> Elizabeth's design still annoys me all to fuck. Looks like a poorly-designed Barbie doll.



I'm sorry she isn't something you can masturbate too, like Lara Croft in her new game or those manly female COGs.


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## Inuhanyou (Oct 29, 2011)

Bioshock 2 was not made by the people who made bioshock 1, and it showed. Irraional made rapture and 2K marine shamed them


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## Krory (Jan 4, 2012)

*Ken Levine Emo Over People Staring At Elizabeth's Tits*



> Irrational Games co-founder Ken Levine has spoken out on the attention being paid to BioShock Infinite's main character, Elizabeth. In a new interview, Levine says he's disappointed that gamers are spending so much time discussing her physical appearance rather than discussing the game's story.
> 
> "You know, I think there's two questions there. One is 'does she need to be pretty?' and another is 'does she need to be voluptuous?' or whatever," he told OXM. "In terms of her body type, I think certainly people on the Internet have spent way more time thinking about Elizabeth's chest than I have. It's something I've barely thought about."
> 
> ...


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## dream (Jan 4, 2012)

Well, what else are people going to talk about right now since the game hasn't been released yet?  He's a silly fool.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 4, 2012)

you're talking about gaming fans here, most who are kids hyped up on hormones, if you show boobs expect to hear alot of comments on them.


I hear more about tomb raider's tits than I do about the amazing gameplay.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 5, 2012)

I can enjoy tits and and a good game at the same time Ken


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## Dreamer (Jan 5, 2012)

~Gesy~ said:


> you're talking about gaming fans here, most who are kids hyped up on hormones, if you show boobs expect to hear alot of comments on them.
> 
> 
> I hear more about tomb raider's tits than I do about the amazing gameplay.





like your sig?


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## Gnome (Jan 5, 2012)

Tits are nice, I see no problems.


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## Helix (Jan 5, 2012)

Dreamer said:


> like your sig?



Her eyes are very pretty.


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## Kyousuke (Jan 22, 2012)

> *BioShock Infinite Gets Hardcore*
> 
> *Irrational's Ken Levine explains the new 1999 mode and the evolution of the Shock franchise.*
> 
> ...



lol 1999 mode.


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## Kyousuke (Jan 22, 2012)

Part 2:


> *IGN: The shooting elements in Infinite, would you say it's more about   precision, do headshots really count compared to hitting someone in   other parts of their body? Is it like really punishing like something   like Counter-Strike or is it a little more forgiving where you don't   have to worry about weapon spray patterns and degenerating accuracy and   things like that?
> 
> Ken Levine*: About the vanilla game or in 1999 mode?
> 
> ...



Clean interface goals + bigger world exploration + no multiplayer (yet).


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## Krory (Jan 22, 2012)

But whatever you do, don't look at Liz's tits. It'll make Levine cry.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 22, 2012)

There won't be multiplayer. That would be about as tacked on as Bio2's multiplayer.

Ken has always said that he won't add elements that don't fit with the game, this element doesn't fit with the game.


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## Krory (Jan 22, 2012)

Like how he adamantly denounced motion controllers and said they were hackneyed and forced...

...and now it has PlayStation Move support.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 22, 2012)

If they aren't done right sure, which is what he said in context.. He thought that Move would work for his game, so he included it.

Not sure where your going with that


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## Gnome (Jan 22, 2012)

Motion controls are bad, always.


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## Dreamer (Jan 23, 2012)

Looking forward to this game.


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## Krory (Jan 23, 2012)

Yeah. He said in context _after_ Sony gave him a bunch of money.

Just sayin'.


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## dream (Jan 23, 2012)

I like the sound of 1999 mode but beyond that I'm having a hard time staying interested in this game.


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## bigduo209 (Jan 23, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> I like the sound of 1999 mode but beyond that I'm having a hard time staying interested in this game.



If the game doesn't suite your tastes, then what's left to say about it?


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## dream (Jan 23, 2012)

bigduo209 said:


> If the game doesn't suite your tastes, then what's left to say about it?



It's not that the game doesn't suit my tastes, in fact it has quite a lot of things that I look for in games but for some reason I'm not mustering up some excitement for it.  I loved Bioshock and Bioshock 2 but I suppose that I've grown weary of the series.


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## Helix (Jan 23, 2012)

1999 mode, me gusta.


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## Krory (Mar 1, 2012)

I'm disappointed at the lack of upkeep. Especially since BioShock Infinite has an official release date now.

October 16th for North America
October 19th for International release.


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## Suigetsu (Mar 1, 2012)

Krory said:


> But whatever you do, don't look at Liz's tits. It'll make Levine cry.



I am afraid then that he is gonna have to cry a river then


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## Furious George (Mar 1, 2012)

Krory said:


> I'm disappointed at the lack of upkeep. Especially since BioShock Infinite has an official release date now.
> 
> *October 16th for North America*
> October 19th for International release.



So far away.


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## The Boss (Mar 1, 2012)

Krory said:


> I'm disappointed at the lack of upkeep. Especially since BioShock Infinite has an official release date now.
> 
> October 16th for North America
> October 19th for International release.



About damn time they have a date. ;<


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## Kyousuke (Mar 1, 2012)

Nice to see they have a date. I'll be looking forward to getting it.


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## Inuhanyou (Mar 1, 2012)

i hope irrational has fixed 2k marine's crappy port of the original game for the ps3 release


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## Krory (Mar 1, 2012)

If Bayonetta and Skyrim and BioShock and ME3 tell us anything, it's that PS3 versions always suck.


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## The World (Mar 1, 2012)

Fin-a-lly.


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## Gnome (Mar 1, 2012)

Gnome said:


> Motion controls are bad, always.



Man I'm smart.


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## Krory (Mar 1, 2012)

You're the smartest man-thing I know, Brome.


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## The World (Mar 1, 2012)

Fuck you.





I want a brohug too.


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## Gnome (Mar 1, 2012)

The World is bad people.


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## The World (Mar 1, 2012)

How could you!?


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## bigduo209 (Mar 8, 2012)

I can't believe nobody posted this...

[YOUTUBE]A9kGeaNoxXs[/YOUTUBE]


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## Suigetsu (Mar 8, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> i hope irrational has fixed 2k marine's crappy port of the original game for the ps3 release



2k Marine sucks, look to what they did with Bioshock 2 and the port for Bioshock 1.

Is 2k Marine closed now or something?


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## Inuhanyou (Mar 8, 2012)

No, unfortunately, they are working on the FPS reboot of XCOM.

I've always thought Bioshock 2 was completely unnecessary and detracted from Ken Levine's masterpiece. It may have had good combat, but everything else was a commercial wankfest.

For me it was like if James Cameron made a "Titanic 2" with no budget and made it about some random other shit going on in the ship that was never referenced or alluded to whatsoever just to make a buck off the brandname. And then he'd add some shoehorned in multiplayer .  fuck you just don't do that.


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## crazymtf (Mar 8, 2012)

Bioshock 2 gameplay was much better then the first. That alone makes it a good game. Story wise it was good too. Maybe not as good as the first one but it was pretty damn good. Especially the endings. The endings far surpass the first ones.


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## Inuhanyou (Mar 8, 2012)

It was unnecessary, that's the point   Whether or not it was well produced for not being done by the original team is besides the point.


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## crazymtf (Mar 8, 2012)

Well since I disliked Bioshock 1 and enjoyed Bioshock 2 I will just have to agree to disagree with you here. It had a big point, got me excited for future Bioshock titles


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## Inuhanyou (Mar 8, 2012)

To each his own, i guess we can split it down the middle.

I hope that infinite has the original's charm and the fludity of the combat from the second one, tied with a better endings, i can agree that the endings in the first one were very disappointing.


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## Suigetsu (Mar 9, 2012)

crazymtf said:


> Bioshock 2 gameplay was much better then the first. That alone makes it a good game. Story wise it was good too. Maybe not as good as the first one but it was pretty damn good. Especially the endings. The endings far surpass the first ones.



10 of 50 people liked the story, it was acceptable at most but not well written at all. It did not have ANYTHING than the original. It was tedious and filled of plot holes, trying itself to become more important than the first one.  
It was all pasted together at the last moment. They had an amazing draft of ideas and yet they barely used it, when the script deadline arrived, the ink on it was still wet.


Game was good because they basically took a list of all the possible improvements and cool things that would had been liked to see in the game.

Any true Bioshock fan will tell you the same as me. Probably what pissed them the most was making many big sisters instead of the original one that had been a little sister that missed rapture.

Hopefully they may reboot that game someday in the far future.


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## Inuhanyou (Mar 9, 2012)

or just leave it alone


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## crazymtf (Mar 9, 2012)

Suigetsu said:


> 10 of 50 people liked the story, it was acceptable at most but not well written at all. It did not have ANYTHING than the original. It was tedious and filled of plot holes, trying itself to become more important than the first one.
> It was all pasted together at the last moment. They had an amazing draft of ideas and yet they barely used it, when the script deadline arrived, the ink on it was still wet.
> 
> 
> ...


10 out of 50? Love the statistics you pull out of your ass man 


Either way I thought it was well told, interesting, and liked the ending quite a bit. I don't think it needs to be rebooted at all. As Infinite is another take.


----------



## Suigetsu (Mar 9, 2012)

crazymtf said:


> 10 out of 50? Love the statistics you pull out of your ass man
> 
> 
> Either way I thought it was well told, interesting, and liked the ending quite a bit. I don't think it needs to be rebooted at all. As Infinite is another take.



Like I said, if it does then it would have to be in the far future or even in a movie.

Srsly 10 out of 50 Bioshock core fans.


Ima calling it now, Infinity is gonna be Game of the year.


----------



## eHav (Mar 9, 2012)

Suigetsu said:


> Like I said, if it does then it would have to be in the far future or even in a movie.
> 
> Srsly 10 out of 50 Bioshock core fans.
> 
> ...



why not say 1 out of 5?


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 9, 2012)

Cause he's making shit up haha. 

Bioshock core fans? Soooo system shock fans don't have a say in the matter?  

Either way Infinite has a strong chance of being GOTY yep.


----------



## Suigetsu (Mar 9, 2012)

crazymtf said:


> Cause he's making shit up haha.
> 
> Bioshock core fans? Soooo system shock fans don't have a say in the matter?
> 
> Either way Infinite has a strong chance of being GOTY yep.



yeah fans that are really INTO bioshock, not making shit up but whatever. October it's a long way from here... I think this fall will be full of old American themed games. With AC3 and Bioshock.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 9, 2012)

those are 2


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 10, 2012)

Suigetsu said:


> yeah fans that are really INTO bioshock, not making shit up but whatever. October it's a long way from here... I think this fall will be full of old American themed games. With AC3 and Bioshock.


Full? 2 out of...20+? Lolz man you crack me up sometimes


----------



## Suigetsu (Mar 10, 2012)

crazymtf said:


> Full? 2 out of...20+? Lolz man you crack me up sometimes



.....


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 10, 2012)

It's ok. You still my homie


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Mar 10, 2012)

This is like, the only FPS I'm actually excited about since Serious Sam 3. As in "I can't wait to play this game" instead of "Will probably play it when it comes out".


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 10, 2012)

Infinite is Ken Levine's baby  that's all i need to know to day one it with enthusiasm


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 19, 2012)

*Ken Levine: "1 Level of Bioshock Infinite contains 3 times more writing than all of Bioshock 1 combined"*



This is a big reason why i disliked Bioshock 2. KEN LEVIN WASN'T ON BOARD


----------



## Kyousuke (Mar 19, 2012)

Man, I'm excited for this one too. The story looks like it'll feel like Bioshock 1 in a new setting.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 19, 2012)

He's also writing 99% of the script apparently, which makes it even better


----------



## vanhellsing (Mar 19, 2012)

i cant wait for this god tier game


----------



## Krory (Mar 19, 2012)

The huge increase in writing will be extraordinary, providing Elizabeth doesn't prove to be as much of an insufferable twat as she's been made out to be so far.


----------



## The World (Mar 19, 2012)

Impossible, she has big bewbs.


----------



## Krory (Mar 19, 2012)

Still can't get over _that_ irony.


----------



## The World (Mar 19, 2012)

The big bewbs to intelligence ratio is iron-clad

Wait.........


----------



## Krory (Mar 19, 2012)

No, I meant Ken Levine's attitude to people talking about or looking at her tits. The whole "Make a character with huge tits that are put on display yet mope around when people have their attention drawn to them."


----------



## Kyousuke (Mar 19, 2012)

Yeah he should have seen that coming. What else are people gonna notice when they don't have much else to talk about involving Bioshock Infinite?


----------



## The World (Mar 19, 2012)

That was quite hilarious at the time. 

I'm going to create a character with a huge visible cameltoe and rage when people only talk about it.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 20, 2012)

He never raged  he was only disappointed that people talked more about the boobs than the game.  The boobs are only supposed to be there for a bonus


----------



## Krory (Mar 20, 2012)

Ken Levine cried like a little bitch over it. That's the only reason they're _finally_ starting to release some info on the game.

Crying over how no one's talking about your game when you release the same trailer four times over the course of the year in a different sequential order...


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 20, 2012)

? What are you talking about, they've been showing new footage since the 10 minute target render in 2010. They started the vid docs in early 2011 with an early version of the rails on show, and continued it with hints about Elizabeth's dimension shifting ability.

It had nothing to do with whatever fans were talking about, as the interview where he expressed those concerns were in late 2011  

Atleast keep up to date Crowley


----------



## Krory (Mar 20, 2012)

Who the Hell said anything about what fans were talking about?  Are you just constantly off in your own little world?


----------



## Klue (Mar 20, 2012)

Missed out on BioShock 2, but why is it that so many people seem to dislike it?


----------



## The World (Mar 20, 2012)

People are dumb?


----------



## Awesome (Mar 20, 2012)

The story was subpar in comparison to the first, therefore fans dislike it. However, they're judging it by the story - not the gameplay. The gameplay and atmosphere was superior in the second game.


----------



## Snakety69 (Mar 20, 2012)

Klue said:


> Missed out on BioShock 2, but why is it that so many people seem to dislike it?



Mainly because it was unnecessary. Even though I liked the game, the story of Rapture was already nicely wrapped up in the first one. You learned how it was made, who all the key players were, and what exactly led to it's failure, and with all that knowledge, everything in 2 mostly felt like filler.

Still, the atmosphere and good writing were still present, and it had some cool moments. I've said it many times, and I'll say it again, that moment where you play as a Little Sister and see Rapture through here eyes ranks as one of my most favorite moments in gaming ever.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Mar 21, 2012)

Awesome said:


> The story was subpar in comparison to the first, therefore fans dislike it. However, they're judging it by the story - not the gameplay. The gameplay and atmosphere was superior in the second game.



Agree concerning the gameplay. Completely disagree concerning the atmosphere.

That said, the special enemies of Infinite look leagues above the stuff in the first couple of Bioshocks.


----------



## Krory (May 9, 2012)

BioShock Infinite has been delayed until February 26th 2013.



> When we announced the release date of BioShock Infinite in March, we felt pretty good about the timing.
> 
> Since then, we’ve come to realize that some specific tweaks and improvements will make Infinite into something even more extraordinary. Therefore, to give our talented team the time they need, we’ve decided to move the game’s release to February 26, 2013. We wanted to let our loyal (and very patient!) fans know this as soon as possible.
> 
> ...


----------



## The World (May 9, 2012)

If the game is better than 1 and 2, I can be patient.


----------



## Stumpy (May 9, 2012)

Yay. That will make the game _even better_.


----------



## Krory (May 9, 2012)

inb4 it was delayed for multiplayer.

It's all the rage nowadays.


----------



## Inuhanyou (May 9, 2012)

They aren't 2K Marin, no multiplayer 

In other words, FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF why make me wait so long??


----------



## Helix (May 9, 2012)

Fine with me. A lot of games I want to get this Fall/Winter anyway.


----------



## Krory (May 9, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> They aren't 2K Marin, no multiplayer
> 
> In other words, FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF why make me wait so long??



It's only a matter of time. Even God of War is doing it now.


----------



## lathia (May 9, 2012)

Nooooooooooooo!  I hope it doesn't delay any planned novel releases.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (May 9, 2012)

FUCK MY STUPID DIDDLY FUCKING ASS DICKLY FUCK.

*Ahem*

I want this game.


----------



## Inuhanyou (May 9, 2012)

Krory said:


> It's only a matter of time. Even God of War is doing it now.



GOD OF WAR IS GOD OF CRAP


----------



## Krory (May 9, 2012)

So we're on the same page.


----------



## The World (May 9, 2012)

God of War 1 was still a great game. 

I haven't played GOW3 yet, still on my shelf collecting dust. I really need to get around to it.


----------



## Falcon (May 9, 2012)

Damn, I was really looking forward to playing it this year.

Maybe Tomb Raider will come out around the original date.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Oct 10, 2012)

*New Trailer to be revealed after 7 month blackout*




If only Versus or TLG could have this kind of urgency


----------



## Bishamon (Oct 15, 2012)

This will either put the game in Dev trouble or it's close to being done so they pretty much moved on now that they have nothing else to do.

I hope it's the second one. I swear what is up with the games i want ending up in development hell


----------



## αshɘs (Oct 16, 2012)

Again? 3 people already left this year iirc :s


----------



## αshɘs (Oct 21, 2012)

new trailer


----------



## Inuhanyou (Oct 21, 2012)

Looking very good, very good indeed.


----------



## Augors (Oct 21, 2012)

About time, we have a date.


----------



## Death-kun (Oct 21, 2012)

The Ultimate Songbird Edition looks great, but there's no way I'd pay $70 for the statue even though it's definitely worth that much.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Oct 21, 2012)

Augors said:


> About time, we have a date.



We already had that date six months ago


----------



## Buskuv (Oct 21, 2012)

This better not tank.

There will be no forgiveness for it.


----------



## blakstealth (Oct 21, 2012)

Finally, a new trailer.


----------



## Bishamon (Oct 21, 2012)

αshɘs said:


> new trailer


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Oct 21, 2012)

The protagonists is full of swag, huh.


----------



## αshɘs (Oct 21, 2012)

btw they did change Booker's VA?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Oct 21, 2012)

his VA has been the same for a long time. His voice was only different in the 2010 trailer, which wasn't actually the game.  Check out the 15 minute trailer, same as here


----------



## vanhellsing (Oct 21, 2012)

this game is looking too sexy and awesome in dat gameplay


----------



## Augors (Oct 21, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> We already had that date six months ago


I didn't know, This game has been in the dark for me until now. lol


----------



## Samehada (Oct 22, 2012)

>Birthday Feb 16
>Release date Feb 26
>Free Game


----------



## Bishamon (Oct 22, 2012)

αshɘs said:


> btw they did change Booker's VA?



Pretty sure it has always been the same.


----------



## αshɘs (Oct 22, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> his VA has been the same for a long time. His voice was only different in the 2010 trailer, which wasn't actually the game.  Check out the 15 minute trailer, same as here



If by 2010 trailer you mean the 10 min footage (which I rewatched recently) then yeah, you're right.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Oct 22, 2012)

that's what i meant yeah


----------



## Krory (Nov 4, 2012)

Bumping just to say I was severely out of the loop on this game and not very interested. Until I saw the Beast of America trailer, which absolutely convinced me I must buy this game.

Just sayin'.


----------



## αshɘs (Nov 4, 2012)

I just hope the combat will feel good this time.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 4, 2012)

Never had a prob with bio combat myself. But ken said he took cues from bio 2 combat which prolly helped as in inf you can now dual wield like in bio 2


----------



## Krory (Nov 4, 2012)

Yeah, the trailer seems to show you can use a Plasmid while using a weapon. I never had trouble with Bio1 either but I think that was the one _good_ thing from Bio2. The difference in Infinite is Booker holds his weapons with both hands so you don't see a Plasmid in one and weapon in the other - he just releases the weapon with his left hand to use a Plasmid.

Or Vigor, I think they're called in Infinite. Whatever.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 4, 2012)

Vigoors yes. I hope they have a good in game explanation. Plasmid explanation did a good job of weaving the powers into the world. That goes for elizabeth reality warping abilities too, hope it comes together but I have faith in ken


----------



## Krory (Nov 4, 2012)

I watched the video on the tears of Ken talking about how they utilized research like Einstein and Heisenberg were doing so it definitely sounds like they put effort into explaining that stuff. So yeah, I have faith, too. And the Heavy Hitters sound awesome (though I just hope there's more than the four - but some of the other enemies look awesome, like in the Beast of America trailer - the armored guy with fire and there was a glimpse of some guy with crows and a coffin on his back)>


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 4, 2012)

Well it would be boring if those enemies in the videos were the only ones. Also, what piqued your intrest to watch the trailer to begin with if you were not impressed with what you saw before that?


----------



## Krory (Nov 4, 2012)

I was just kind of bored one day and was looking into games. I already had a lot on my plate (as I still intend to get DmC, Dead Space 3, Tomb Raider and Remember Me) and just decided to give it a chance. Dishonored kind of sparked a vague interest admittedly, since it has that very obvious BioShock feel (considering part of the team are those that bailed after BioShock 2) - with its art style/direction and it's gameplay mechanics.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Nov 4, 2012)

To me, this is THE FPS to get at this period. It seems to have much faster pacing than Bioshock 1 & 2 but with plenty of new charm to go along with it. Plus, the faster pacing will hopefully make up for the 2 weapon limit.

Also, I like that the main protagonist speaks for himself instead of being a mute protagonist. Not that I dislike that kind of protagonist but I would love to hear vocal reactions from you in the world of Bioshock.


----------



## Krory (Nov 4, 2012)

I like how unlike in BS1 where everyone (pretty much) was hostile, that a lot of people will be neutral in Infinite until you do something that'll make them feel otherwise. I also have hopes for Booker since he's voiced by Troy Baker and I'm bias. And now that I know more about 1999 mode or whatever, it sounds more interesting.


----------



## Bishamon (Nov 4, 2012)

It was kinda necessary in BS1 though: There really was nothing left in that city, it had all gone to hell, so i think it makes sense that everyone is crazy and hostile.

I'm not exactly sure what is going on with the city in this one though, but i'll leave it that way to get the answer with the game.

Btw, does anyone know if they're still using those handyman or whatever they're called?
I don't think i've seen them in a very long time.


----------



## Krory (Nov 4, 2012)

As far as I knew - they were one of the four "Heavy Hitters" so I would hope so.

All four of them looked really awesome.

And actually, the Beast of America trailer showed Booker fighting one with a gatling gun, so...

And I agree about BS1 and the hostility. I just mean it's nice for this to be different, y'know?


----------



## αshɘs (Nov 4, 2012)

Kinda sad they changed the moustache + hair design to the generic bald one.



Inuhanyou said:


> Never had a prob with bio combat myself. But ken said he took cues from bio 2 combat which prolly helped as in inf you can now dual wield like in bio 2



The dual wield is just one thing. The handling, aiming and damage of weapons wasn't really satisfying in this franchise. B2 did make it more fluid with the dual wield, but still wasn't enough for me.


----------



## αshɘs (Dec 7, 2012)

Release date got pushed to march 26th


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 7, 2012)

I saw some previews today, it looks like its shaping up very well from what i heard. Also, we're getting a new gameplay segment tomorrow at the VGA's


----------



## Ultimania (Dec 7, 2012)

This is perfect for me. I now can rebuy the original Bioshock (had it on the 360, which is a console I don't play anymore for obvious reasons) along with Bioshock Infinite without spending extra money. I'm hoping that this version of Bioshock 1 includes the PS3 extras and trophies. 

Also, free Bioshock 2 on PS Plus FTW.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 7, 2012)

Obvious reasons...? Do tell  Still play my 360 just fine. I'm getting this on that, although i'll probably buy the game for PS3 as well just cause it comes with Bio 1 too


----------



## Krory (Dec 7, 2012)

Disappointed about the delay since that puts it right in line with Tomb Raider, but the previews just sounded too awesome.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 7, 2012)

I agree. The script is very great, and i look to Bioshock's story more than anything


----------



## Ultimania (Dec 7, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Obvious reasons...? Do tell



My first 360 died due to a RROD. When I decided to buy another down the road, it eventually stopped reading discs. This time I did the responsible thing and sent it for repairs to Microsoft. Well the problem was fixed, but it finally got a RROD too. I could buy a 360 Slim down the road if I wanted to since the previous two ones were the fat model after all. But I don't even know if I want to. Most of the games I play on the 360 can be bought on the PS3 and I'm too tight on money in order to rebuy a console.

Either way, I have owned a _lot_ of consoles, and I _never_ had so much trouble with one console in my entire life. The ironic thing is that my PS3 never had any problems. If that's not obvious enough, then I don't know what is.


----------



## Krory (Dec 7, 2012)

Ultimania said:


> My first 360 died due to a RROD. When I decided to buy another down the road, it eventually stopped reading discs. This time I did the responsible thing and sent it for repairs to Microsoft. Well the problem was fixed, but it finally got a RROD too. I could buy a 360 Slim down the road if I wanted to since the previous two ones were the fat model after all. But I don't even know if I want to. Most of the games I play on the 360 can be bought on the PS3 and I'm too tight on money in order to rebuy a console.
> 
> Either way, I have owned a _lot_ of consoles, and I _never_ had so much trouble with one console in my entire life. The ironic thing is that my PS3 never had any problems. If that's not obvious enough, then I don't know what is.



The hardest time I've had with a console is with PS2s. Went through about five of them. The one I currently have works when it feels like it wants to. Ironically, I've never had a serious problem with my 360 aside from the power supply box/cable going bad (which caused a RROD... thankfully I wasn't dumb enough to automatically assume it was THE RROD).


----------



## Krory (Dec 7, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I agree. The script is very great, and i look to Bioshock's story more than anything



Story is obviously its strong point but gameplay looks phenomenal, too. I always liked BS gameplay but this just looks outstanding. I was also reading some of the previews of some of the attention-to-detail Irrational did. One example was with the Devil's Kiss Vigor and how the hand kind of drips flame/fire or something but it's not a situation where it just kind of goes off-screen. If you angle the camera down, you can see that it's dripping onto the floor and burning it.

And on two other notes - one, I think the cover is pretty awesome, screw the naysayers. And second, I think it's great that they hired that Russian cosplayer and made her the official face of Elizabeth.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 7, 2012)

Ken has a lot of genius in his brain, people should have more faith in his choices


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 7, 2012)

Okay, i'm going for a media black out tonight guys and will pick everything up tommorow. Don't forget there will be new footage of Bio Infinite tonight during the VGA's


----------



## Krory (Dec 7, 2012)

I gained more faith when I realized he had no real involvement in BioShock 2.

I'm looking forward to the Infinite stuff (and to see if they changed Liz's and Booker's designs AGAIN). I also hear the Castlevania peeps are there so I'm hoping for LoS2 stuff but I imagine it's about the 3DS game.

I'm still holding out for that long-awaited Alan Wake 2 announcement. I hate how Sam Lake teases it and then NOTHING.

There's also a new Tomb Raider trailer which I'm stoked for.


----------



## Suigetsu (Dec 7, 2012)

Wait... they have changed bookers and Elizabeth's designs many times?

Also it is well known that Kevn Levine had no involvement on Bioshock 2. And even the original design of Bioshock 2 was completely modified into the shallow bad story that we all know.


----------



## Krory (Dec 7, 2012)

The story was the only thing that held together in BS2 aside from dual-wielding. Eleanor is still one of the greatest female video game characters.

Elizabeth's design changed about three or four times now. Booker's twice, I believe.


----------



## Mexicano27 (Dec 8, 2012)

Suigetsu said:


> And even the original design of Bioshock 2 was completely modified into the shallow bad story that we all know.



Hadn't they changed it for the better? I remember hearing that the original plan was for only one Big Sister to be in the game, who you needed to fight repeatedly and would have been revealed to be Eleanor in the end, but they realized this would have been stupid and obvious, and they nixed the whole idea.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 8, 2012)

They don't really explain Big sisters do they


----------



## Suigetsu (Dec 8, 2012)

Mexicano27 said:


> Hadn't they changed it for the better? I remember hearing that the original plan was for only one Big Sister to be in the game, who you needed to fight repeatedly and would have been revealed to be Eleanor in the end, but they realized this would have been stupid and obvious, and they nixed the whole idea.



Yes it was going to be one big sister, she was going to be like a nemesis in the story. But the team and the director just didnt know how to do better so they just turned the big sister into spider splicers with more life.

There was going to be a war between the splicers and shit. I am not gonna get into this because I have gone trough it COUNTLESS of times. Seriously if you call yourself a bioshock fan then do some research on how Bioshock 2 was going to be originally. The story has more plot holes than the fucking moon.

Eleanor was great, but the story was terribly executed. Heck the ink on the script paper was still wet when they hit the deadlines.


----------



## crazymtf (Dec 8, 2012)

New trailer and footage got me hyped. Love the chaotic look to it too. I enjoyed Bioshock 2 more then 1 for the gameplay alone. So hoping infinite is a mix of both.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 8, 2012)

bioshock infinite is full of racists, so its a day 1 purchase for me


----------



## Krory (Dec 8, 2012)

The moon doesn't have plot holes.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Dec 8, 2012)

The only things that kinda makes me cautious is the 2 weapon limit. Can't see how Ken thought that would actually help gameplay variety unless the splices and Liz's complementary gameplay are really out there.

Anyway you put it though, weapon limit is always bullshit for a FPS.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 8, 2012)

I agree, weapon wheel is where its at 

but we'll see how it goes


----------



## Bungee Gum (Dec 8, 2012)

Bioshock 2 is free on ps+

why dont i like it? I dont get it, i know i should like it  but i dont, what the hell


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 8, 2012)

Because bioshock 2 is a cynical cash grab by 2K in order to profit from the brand. Its a sequel in name only not even made by Ken or Irrational. You could tell that from the shoehorned in multiplayer


----------



## crazymtf (Dec 8, 2012)

Bioshock 2 improved the gameplay in a lot of ways. I wouldn't call it a cash grab, they tried to improve the formula. While many enjoyed Bioshock 1 story more, I find it hard to believe anyone would say Bioshock 2 didn't have the better gameplay.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 8, 2012)

gameplay isn't what defined bioshock, or else it would not be memorable.

Bioshock 2 lacked everything in terms of atmosphere and pure novelty


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Dec 8, 2012)

"Novelty" per se doesn't make a game. This argument is such fucking devoid of meaning.

Bioshock 2 might have been a cashgrab but that doesn't stop it from being a good game regardless. The gameplay was better and at least part of the storyline was pretty cool, loved the ending.


----------



## Mexicano27 (Dec 9, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> bioshock infinite is full of racists, so its a day 1 purchase for me



Referring to this?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 9, 2012)

Yes...


----------



## Mexicano27 (Dec 10, 2012)




----------



## Tash (Dec 10, 2012)

They would have done well to have a mostly faceless protag. like in Bioshock 1 imo

EDIT: WOW holy shit. I can't believe they're getting that real with the moral choices in this game.

I guess the devs are calling the people that like to make the dick moves in these games, out on their shit lol


----------



## blakstealth (Dec 10, 2012)

I thought Infinite wasn't supposed to have "moral choices." That's what Ken Levine said in this interview somewhere.


----------



## bigduo209 (Dec 12, 2012)

*Vote for Bioshock Infinite's Reversible Box Art!

*Design #1
​ 

Design #2
​ 

Design #3
​ 

Design #4
​ 

Design #5
​ 

Design #6
​

Go now people!


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Dec 12, 2012)

4 or 6.

I voted 6.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 12, 2012)

3, 4 or 6


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 12, 2012)

I hope you guys are voting for the correct art.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 12, 2012)

Which one is that??????


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 12, 2012)

A real fan would know.


----------



## Gnome (Dec 13, 2012)

It's 4          .


----------



## Mexicano27 (Dec 13, 2012)

Definitely leaning towards 4. I know they won't use anything like that, though, since apparently they want to use a cover that attracts the CoD audience or something.

Edit: Never mind, should have followed the link first. The fact that it'd be the reversable cover changes everything.


----------



## Furious George (Dec 13, 2012)

Definitely 4.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 13, 2012)

I like 6 more..


----------



## Gnome (Dec 13, 2012)

The non-reversible (main) cover is Bioshock: Drakes Fortune. 4 is the most polar opposite looking of that, pick it.


----------



## vanhellsing (Dec 13, 2012)

It should be 4 but 6 its great too


----------



## Death-kun (Dec 13, 2012)

#4 is teh besto.


----------



## KidTony (Dec 13, 2012)

4 easily
_______________


----------



## Death-kun (Dec 13, 2012)

So, thanks to being able to trick Walmart into giving me $110 for only $40, I might splurge and get myself the Ultimate Songbird Edition. Anyone else here getting it?


----------



## αshɘs (Dec 13, 2012)

#4 got my vote too


----------



## Death-kun (Dec 13, 2012)

> BIOSHOCK INFINITE COLUMBIA CONCEPT STATUE
> 
> This collectible is based on the original concept art designs for the upcoming Bioshock Infinite.  It stands over 14” tall and has a weathered and torn fabric flag detailed to match the one shown in the game.
> 
> This collectible will be a limited run with only 1000 pieces made and can be pre-ordered right now over at Big Bad Toy Store for $109.99.  It would go great with anyone who picks up the Ultimate Songbird Edition with that huge 9” Songbird statue.


----------



## bigduo209 (Dec 13, 2012)

I really want number 6 to win, Elizabeth and the Songbird just has something over me.


----------



## DedValve (Dec 13, 2012)

Smh at people voting 6. 4 is the only way. 

BUT NEEDS MORE BRODUDES IN THESE COVERS. And more blue and orange.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 13, 2012)

OBVIOUSLY WE WANT ANOTHER 30SOMETHING WHITE GUY HOLDING A GUN ON THE COVER

THERE IS NO OTHER WAY


----------



## Death-kun (Dec 13, 2012)

Most original cover art evar.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2012)

i really dgaf at the cover really  i don't even look at my boxart really


----------



## Death-kun (Dec 13, 2012)

I think good box art is always nice. It's like a big advertisement for the game. It's not rare for people to impulse buy something if the cover merely looks interesting.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 13, 2012)

I think companies are wising up, however slowly and slightly.

The cover to Resistance 3 was pretty shway.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2012)

And it sold like shit, so yeah


----------



## Death-kun (Dec 13, 2012)

Resistance isn't that popular to begin with, is it? 

Anyway, to stay on topic, I have decided to pre-order the Ultimate Songbird Edition for myself. Previously I had not considered it due to being so expensive, but I've come into some... "free" money, so why not. That statue will look amazing.


----------



## Falcon (Dec 13, 2012)

I can't wait for this, haven't had such high anticipation for a game since Mass Effect 3!

Voted for design#4 box art btw.


----------



## Suigetsu (Dec 13, 2012)

number 6, heck yeah.


----------



## Death-kun (Dec 14, 2012)

Completely forgot I had $127 in Gamestop credit. -_-

I'll get the Ultimate Songbird Edition there instead.


----------



## αshɘs (Dec 19, 2012)




----------



## Psysalis (Dec 19, 2012)

Death-kun said:


> Completely forgot I had $127 in Gamestop credit. -_-
> 
> I'll get the Ultimate Songbird Edition there instead.



I must ask  . What is that madness going on in your sig? It looks pretty damn amazing.


----------



## Death-kun (Dec 19, 2012)

First few minutes looks awesome. 



Psysalis said:


> I must ask  . What is that madness going on in your sig? It looks pretty damn amazing.



Sword Art Online.


----------



## Gnome (Dec 19, 2012)

That's not a show I can watch


----------



## Krory (Jan 7, 2013)

*BioShock: Ultimate Rapture Edition*

Releasing January 14th for the XBox 360 and Playstation 3, this new version bundles BioShock and BioShock 2. It will also include all of the following content:



> Museum of Orphaned Concepts: Take a tour of a never-before-seen BioShock museum and view early concept art, character models and more set within the halls of Rapture.
> 
> Plasmids Pack: Includes four additional Plasmids and Gene Tonics – Sonic Boom, EVE Saver, Vending Expert and Machine Buster – for use in BioShock.
> 
> ...



Also, expect a nifty BioShock Infinite sticker pack.

Although sure it's not that good for people who already have this but for those that haven't experienced BioShock yet, they can pick this nifty thing up for only $29.99.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 7, 2013)

This on top of getting bio 1 for free with an inifnite purchase? Take Two are pretty generous...


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 7, 2013)

I'd jump on that if I didn't already have Bio 1 and 2 on PC. 

Oh, by the way guys, the alternate cover art was decided. Quite a while ago, actually. It was number 4, this one. Very fitting imo.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 7, 2013)

I think that one actually won.

And all the gaming blogs (there's no such thing as gaming journalism) were are mad about it, calling it the worst one and all that, probably because it didn't have a 30something, grizzled white guy on the cover holding a gun.


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 7, 2013)

Smaug said:


> I think that one actually won.
> 
> And all the gaming blogs (there's no such thing as gaming journalism) were are mad about it, calling it the worst one and all that, probably because it didn't have a 30something, grizzled white guy on the cover holding a gun.



Yup, that's what I meant. It won the contest.

Most likely.  

My next pick would've been #6, the one with Elizabeth and Songbird together.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 7, 2013)

Honestly, anything but another damn guy walking towards the camera or holding a gun.


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 7, 2013)

I remember reading an article about how Booker in the cover art wasn't practicing proper gun etiquette because he had his pointer finger on the trigger when not in use instead of on the side of the barrel, and they showed about 20 other games picking out which ones had proper etiquette and which didn't. Made me realize how many games have characters with guns on the cover.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 7, 2013)

Precisely.

I mean, just look at the artwork for Dark Souls in Japan and the NA/EU covers--the Japanese cover is fantastic, while everyone else gets Battlefield 3 as the cover.  I hate whoever decides these things.


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 7, 2013)

It's all about grabbing attention. A lot of "gamers" these days don't care for artistic or beautiful cover art, they just want something they're already used to, which is a single character walking/facing forward doing something. I honestly don't see the appeal, I despise that kind of cover art. It's supposed to be cover art, not a picture of the main character doing something.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Jan 7, 2013)

Frankly, I think that the alternate cover of Elizabeth carefully reaching out to Songbird conveys a more character centric idea of the game which fits better. 

Not that the cover who won was bad though, s'pretty good. God knows every other alternate cover were complete dogshit. Some of them looked like poor photoshop jobs.


----------



## Daxter (Jan 7, 2013)

Words cannot convey how excited I am about this game. At first I was pretty bummed about the lack of Big Daddies, 'cause I'm a bit of a tard about them, but I'm confident after watching gameplay and trailers that the new setting and characters will be just as easily likeable as the last ones were. 

I wish I made it for the poll, I would have chosen 2 or 6 for sure.


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 7, 2013)

About the front cover: iirc Levine said something about them making surveys among fratboys and them not knowing shit about Bioshock, so they decided to go with this dudebro cover to appeal to a wider audience? Might be wrong on this.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 7, 2013)

He did say that  It makes me worried about what else was boardroomasized in the process


----------



## Krory (Jan 7, 2013)

Just throwin' it out there - I have no beefs with the (original) cover. Covers don't mean shit to the quality of a game.

Though I DID find it ironic when a Mass Effect 3 designer made a rude remark about the typical "soldier with a gun" cover, specifically calling BioShock Infinite out on it.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 7, 2013)

Naughty dog also joked about it saying something like "you CAN have a girl on the cover!" even though ironically Uncharted 1 and 2's super generic covers were the very ones being most compared to the Infinite cover.


----------



## Krory (Jan 7, 2013)

Oh, the irony.

Regardless, it's really just a marketing decision. I think they saw they already appealed to the general BioShock crowd - the people familiar with their work and the series - with all the gameplay they showed. With the cover, as they said, they want to hook in those people unfamiliar that are more sporadic or impulsive with what they get. I really don't think dumbing down a cover - of which were never really that spectacular for the BioShock series - isn't indicative of anything of the game itself.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 7, 2013)

We'll see how it goes


----------



## Mexicano27 (Jan 7, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Naughty dog also joked about it saying something like "you CAN have a girl on the cover!" even though ironically Uncharted 1 and 2's super generic covers were the very ones being most compared to the Infinite cover.



Well, _Uncharted 2_'s Japanese cover did have Chloe on it.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 7, 2013)

...unlike NAs?


----------



## bigduo209 (Jan 7, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Naughty dog also joked about it saying something like "you CAN have a girl on the cover!" even though ironically Uncharted 1 and 2's super generic covers were the very ones being most compared to the Infinite cover.





Smaug said:


> ...unlike NAs?



Except Naughty Dog was referring to the boxart for The Last of Us where a girl is on the cover.



You were focusing a little too hard on Uncharted...


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 8, 2013)

Well they made those games, so they own that hypocrisy


----------



## Krory (Jan 8, 2013)

Yeah, doesn't really change that fact.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jan 8, 2013)

never played a bioshock game.. this will be my first


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 8, 2013)

the first is cheap. id recommend that


----------



## Krory (Jan 8, 2013)

And as I pointed out earlier in this thread, BioShock Ultimate Rapture Edition is coming out for consoles. Both games and all of the DLC content (which isn't a big deal since it's very minor stuff) for 30 bucks. And, most importantly, STICKERS.


----------



## Daxter (Jan 8, 2013)

^ Oh I was about to say, but was beaten to it. x3

Definitely going to be worth the buy. You can has all my monies Bioshock. 



Khris said:


> never played a bioshock game.. this will be my first



So buy the special edition, but don't neglect the second one.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jan 8, 2013)

so many games this year though.. not sure if i'll have the time 

i will see if i can get it from someone later this week or something


----------



## Krory (Jan 8, 2013)

Khris said:


> so many games this year though.. not sure if i'll have the time
> 
> i will see if i can get it from someone later this week or something



There's too many games for me in the next coming months alone. 

Also, good to see you rocking an LoS2 set.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jan 8, 2013)

yeah.. dem trailers were just too much for me.. also MoF looks cool, so i said what the hell?


----------



## Krory (Jan 8, 2013)

It's a shame it's an end to the series but better ending on a strong note than dragging on.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jan 8, 2013)

i still enjoy the older series.. but i couldn't deny Mercurysteam anymore.. i just can't wait for some LoD2 gameplay..


----------



## Krory (Jan 8, 2013)

For those with an XBox that haven't rocked BS or BS2 yet (or want to do it again and no longer own it), XBL is have a 2K sale.

BioShock and BioShock 2 are both marked down (prices vary by region: $9.99 each for me).

BioShock 2 has also had all of its DLC marked down. 400 MSP a piece for Minerva's Den, The Protector Trials, and Rapture Metro and 200 MSP for Sinclair Solutions Tester Pack.

The deal is good until January 14th.

Though all in all it might just be better to wait out for BioShock Ultimate Rapture Edition, but to each their own.


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 9, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4iJHp6X92o[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 10, 2013)

here's a very very big article about Ken. Worth a read.


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 15, 2013)

*BioShock Infinite: The PC Version Difference*





I'm glad my specs exceed the recommended settings.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

Hope the 360 version is up to snuff although i couldn't complain about the previous games


----------



## Furious George (Jan 21, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> here's a very very big article about Ken. Worth a read.



Reading this article right now. Its making me fall in love with the original Bioshock all over again while making me want Infinite even more. 

Its not fair that it isn't March yet.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Jan 21, 2013)

Been following this game closely. Looks fucking awesome.

Still need to play the first two games. Hopefully my financial aid comes in soon so I can get the Ultimate Rapture Edition.


----------



## Krory (Jan 23, 2013)

A new prequel e-book has been announced, BioShock Infinite: Mind in Revolt. It will fill in readers about some of the history of Columbia and some of the cast including rebel leader, Daisy Fitzroy. It'll be $2.99 or if you pre-order the game from Amazon, you can get it for free.

It'll be up for grabs on February 12th.



> 2K Games and Irrational have announced that BioShock Infinite: Mind in Revolt, a prequel e-book will be heading to Amazon's Kindle e-reader devices next month, written by Irrational Games' writer Joe Fielder and the game's Creative Director, Ken Levine.
> 
> Providing additional insight into the fallen utopia of Columbia among the clouds, BioShock: Mind in Revolt looks to shed some light on the mysterious city and its strange inhabitants. The e-book will be spoiler free however, according to its author.
> 
> ...


----------



## Daxter (Jan 25, 2013)

Was wondering if anyone knew... I think I know the answer to this but just to be sure... there's no hope for online multiplayer mode for infinite, right?


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 25, 2013)

well, they could put it in post-release, but I doubt it. They were initially planning to include that, but was cut out.


----------



## Krory (Jan 25, 2013)

Nope. Levine has already said there's no multiplayer - from what I remember hearing, thankfully, there were some plans/ideas but they were cut out.


----------



## Daxter (Jan 25, 2013)

Ah thankfully you say?

I love online mode, so it's a bit disappointing to hear for me. Too bad. Thanks for the info guys, just wanted to be sure, before I got my hopes up too high.


----------



## Krory (Jan 25, 2013)

It's not uncommon for a publisher to pull resources off of the single-player component to work on multiplayer. This is what happened with BioShock 2 and really the resources for BS2 bounced all over the place. The developers behind Spec Ops: The Line also made the same complaint (it's worth noting both were 2K Studios published) - they were essentially forced to add multiplayer to compete with other shooters and so resources had to be pulled off the single player to work on it. Really, when it's done half-assed it can lead to the worse-case scenario where both sides of it turn out mediocre at best.

Some people believe this is what happened with Dead Space 2 as well, and was basically confirmed when the lead designer said that they cut out the multiplayer for Dead Space 3 so they could focus on single player.

And really, although I have no problems with multiplayer in itself (I personally am looking forward to Tomb Raider's multiplayer), it's nice to see when a game can sell itself without having a multiplayer component. BioShock Infinite will be the highlight of this.


----------



## Daxter (Jan 26, 2013)

Is that so. I remember commenting to my friend about this, saying I'd rather wait (through a postponing) and have all there could be to the new release than only parts of it (though I said this in reference to the possibility of not having multiplayer). 

I didn't realise multiplayer was at fault of BS2's small but there lacking. 

I suppose I'm going to hope that Infinite will further exceed my expectations in light of this, if possible.


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 28, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDcnWFNE_aI[/YOUTUBE]

there's going to be another one next week


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 31, 2013)




----------



## Death-kun (Jan 31, 2013)

I loved that old-timey video.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 31, 2013)

just hook this game into my veins already...


----------



## Krory (Jan 31, 2013)

I may be horribly bias, since it's the trailer that hooked me, but as far as I'm concerned no trailer will top the Beast of America trailer.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 31, 2013)

i think they have been all stellar. Ken is my god and savior


----------



## Krory (Jan 31, 2013)

Not saying they haven't all been great.

But BoA has had a place in my heart. Hell, it's why I got Nico Vega's album.


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 31, 2013)

Game of the year all years.


----------



## EJ (Jan 31, 2013)

Voice acting sounds terrible.

"I'm not letting you take her, you hear me"

Said it so casually.


----------



## vanhellsing (Jan 31, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> Game of the year all years.



bioshock infinite vs grand theft auto 5 who would win that


----------



## Krory (Jan 31, 2013)

vanhellsing said:


> bioshock infinite vs grand theft auto 5 who would win that



BioShock Infinite, naturally.


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 31, 2013)

Glad I decided to opt for this on PC. It's gonna look goddamn beautiful.


----------



## Krory (Feb 1, 2013)

(and subsequently trophies) are out for people interested. There's no story spoilers to speak of, but there are some gameplay spoilers of sorts if you're trying to stay away from as much of this as possible.


*Spoiler*: _If not..._ 



A lot of achievements that are to be expected after the first game. Plenty of "Kill enemies (this way)" achievements, stuff about bringing weapons or allies through tears and using them to kill enemies, having Elizabeth pick locks, and collectibles/upgrades. There's also difficulty achievements for Easy, Normal, Hard, and 1999 Mode as well as one for 1999 Mode without purchasing anything from a Dollar Bill vending machine.

I for one welcome our "Kill 5 enemies while drunk" achievement overlord.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 1, 2013)

Get drunk and go on a rampage.

Party like it's 1912.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 4, 2013)

He already seemed kinda nervous in interviews to talk about former American leaders and their inherent racism due to them being products of their time, I guess Levine doesn't want to come off too strong in Infinite since he's probably certain that this game will stir some shit up.

That said, he shouldn't have done it, IMO.


----------



## Furious George (Feb 4, 2013)

Okay, I deleted the article because I realized the news was old.... but I guess I'll post it again since it seems some of you didn't know. 

*Ken Levine tones down a religious character that might be offensive...*



If its just one character I'm fine. I'd be a little more upset if he changed themes and major plot elements.


----------



## Krory (Feb 8, 2013)

Not entirely related to BioShock Infinite, but awesome news thanks to it...

The band Nico Vega (responsible for the song _Beast_, featured in the Beast of America trailer) has just come out with a music video for their song almost four years after the song's initial release to coincide with a release of a new EP (Fury Oh Fury), likely using the second wind the BioShock Infinite trailer gave their song (and music).


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 9, 2013)

That's not good  that's like rick roll bringing back the rickroll guy for thanksgiving day parade


----------



## Krory (Feb 9, 2013)

Bringing peoples' attention to excellent music is not good all of a sudden?


----------



## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

. Talks about violence in games (sort of), sewage disposal in Columbia, and he also assures that regarding the talk about "fratboys" being familiar with the BioShock brand like they are Call of Duty, that it was _purely_ marketing and it had absolutely no effect on the game itself.

He says he hopes it'll rope people in that it won't normally and people will "get it" like the mass populace did with Inception and The Matrix.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 13, 2013)

> he also assures that regarding the talk about "fratboys" being familiar with the BioShock brand like they are Call of Duty, that it was purely marketing and it had absolutely no effect on the game itself.



Like that wasn't obvious, he was always talking about people's first impressions of his game when they saw the covers.

Some people just like to dramatize.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 13, 2013)

Ken gets unfairly attacked a lot so i can see why he's so defensive


----------



## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

The problem is with the gaming community - a fact I'm sure people are tired of me mentioning, I guess because they want to delude themselves into thinking that it's not true - that by defending yourself, you are saying you're guilty and you are evil.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 15, 2013)

looks like there was party at the studio last night and Ken tweeted this



> Do you guys want some awesome news tomorrow? No? Well, okay.



I guess game's gone gold 

also


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 19, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvX0D3j4gbE&feature=youtu.be[/YOUTUBE]

MAXIMUM HYPE.

JUST RELEASE THE FUCKING GAME ALREADY. THIS GAME HAS MANY TRAILERS AS THIS THREAD HAS PAGES.


----------



## Krory (Feb 19, 2013)

Excellent trailer.

And...


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 19, 2013)

Judging from the trailer, and especially the section where there's a bunch of images sliding incredibly fast, Elizabeth is going to turn into something not so nice by the end of the game. This is gonna turn bad for Booker, I reckon.

Considering Levine has been saying this game has the most balls to the wall craziest ending ever, I'm really anxious here.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 19, 2013)

yay!


----------



## God Hand (Feb 19, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> yay!



Finally....been waiting for a true successor to BioShock 1 since it came out!  Waiting time is almost over.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 19, 2013)

Man, I wish this game would come out already. It's gonna be so goddamn good.


----------



## Doom85 (Feb 19, 2013)

Regarding the ending, I've seen at least one gameplay video that showed a "morality choice" just like Bioshock 1 with saving or harvesting Little Sisters, I'd be pretty surprised if there was only one ending. My guess is Levine is talking about one of the endings specifically as it would be odd to have the player make choices like that but then the overall outcome is the exact same thing.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Since both factions that want Elizabeth are kinda screwed up in the head from what I've heard, my guess is that the "good" path has you making the morally correct choices all the time even if it eventually sets both factions against you. Just like how rescuing the Little Sisters made Bioshock more difficult due to getting less ADAM but ultimately you get the upbeat ending as a result, I could see something similar happening here. But with some mindscrew and/or craziness as well if Levine was referring to the "good" ending.


----------



## Mexicano27 (Feb 19, 2013)

Doom85 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Since both factions that want Elizabeth are kinda screwed up in the head from what I've heard, my guess is that the "good" path has you making the morally correct choices all the time even if it eventually sets both factions against you. *Just like how rescuing the Little Sisters made Bioshock more difficult due to getting less ADAM but ultimately you get the upbeat ending as a result*, I could see something similar happening here. But with some mindscrew and/or craziness as well if Levine was referring to the "good" ending.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Playing as good made the game easier, in my opinion. Once you get the free "Hyponotize Big Daddy" plasmid, the rest of the game just becomes a cakewalk.


----------



## Krory (Feb 19, 2013)

Although I think I like the _Beast of America_ trailer most (very high octane and the song was absolutely awesome), I love the _Lamb of Columbia_ trailer because it really exemplifies the narrative and writing that sets it aside from just being a "first-person shooter."


----------



## Krory (Feb 19, 2013)

And I see what they did there with the trailer titles. Very well-played, Irrational.


----------



## Slice (Feb 20, 2013)

These new trailers look really great. 
Still recent releases have taught me not to preorder games any more so i will wait for some reviews / opinions first.


----------



## Krory (Feb 21, 2013)

BioShock Infinite Season Pass coming.



> Irrational Games has revealed a Season Pass for BioShock Infinite, allowing users to access the game’s DLC as soon as it becomes available.
> 
> Three add-ons are planed for the upcoming action title, which Irrational promises will offer “hours of additional gameplay and continue the player’s journey in the sky-city of Columbia with new stories, characters, abilities and weapons.”
> 
> ...


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 21, 2013)

GOTTA PUMP THAT DLC.

PUMP IT UP.

PUMP IT GOOD.


*Spoiler*: __ 



I'll pirate it at a high price. I'll buy the game though.


----------



## Krory (Feb 21, 2013)

It's 2K, whadya expect?


----------



## Krory (Feb 21, 2013)

Straight from the horse's mouth.



			
				Ken Levine said:
			
		

> DLC facts: levels have not been started or barely begun. It is not cut content. Cut content was cut because it was not good enough for game.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 21, 2013)

^



Ok then, Levine. I'll bite, convince me that I need to buy whatever you're doing for DLC.


----------



## Krory (Feb 21, 2013)

I'd rather trust Levine than, say... Pitchford.


----------



## Krory (Feb 21, 2013)

Ken Levine said:
			
		

> DLC is single player content. When I said we cut DLC, we cut it.We don't cut with a plan to put in DLC.



He's also not really shipping the Season Pass very hard. Someone tweeted asking why they should be something when they don't even know what it is, and his reply was...



> If you don't want to, then you shouldn't. Cool?



Many people are trying to put him through the ringer, it seems.

EDIT:



			
				Ken Levine said:
			
		

> I'm sensitive to DLC concerns, but If you never play the DLC, you will have a 100% complete story experience with Infinite alone.





			
				Ken Levine said:
			
		

> Gamers are entitled to be mad, not buy, etc. It's their money.





			
				Ken Levine said:
			
		

> Then wait to buy or not buy. That's cool.



He also commented on the length of the game, saying that for him - personally - he spent about as much time on Infinite as he did on BioShock (but as he said, of course, YMMV).


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 24, 2013)

I'm not keen on pre-order stuff, but for those in here who want to get this on pc here are some deals that might interest you


----------



## Furious George (Feb 24, 2013)

I'm tired of news and trailers and other dealies. 

Just give me the game already.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 24, 2013)

In 2 days it'll only be a month away!


----------



## bigduo209 (Mar 1, 2013)

Look at how Elizabeth reacts to the world around her. 

[YOUTUBE]2viudg2jsE8[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 1, 2013)

I checked CanYouRunIt on my gaming rig, I went way above and beyond the recommended settings for BI. This game is gonna be gorgeous.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 2, 2013)

Then she better not be ass retarded when i'm playing with her in the area


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Mar 2, 2013)

She's adorable, God damn.

And just found a version of beast of america using the different version they used for the Infinite trailer, I like it better.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eheESgRNJKc[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## "Shion" (Mar 2, 2013)

When does this shit come out again?

My brother has been looking forward to it for a good while...

I've noticed that the games have progressively gotten less and less 'creepy', which is some shit that better change... The creepy factor plus the classic music was what kept people playing this crap.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 2, 2013)

It comes out on March 26th.


----------



## "Shion" (Mar 2, 2013)

Thanks, and shit.


----------



## Suigetsu (Mar 3, 2013)

I cant wait for my Bioshock. I want the songbird edition but it's no longer available online


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 3, 2013)

Couldn't you still find a copy in a retail store?


----------



## Krory (Mar 3, 2013)

If you're lucky. Huge collector's editions like those aren't easy to find in retail store and you know it'll be missing everything if ever traded-in.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 3, 2013)

this game is gonna be awesome


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 3, 2013)

Krory, I meant being able to pre-order a Songbird edition. Last time I heard GameStop has almost run out, but I don't think they're completely sold out yet. I preordered mine months ago.


----------



## Krory (Mar 3, 2013)

Well then.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 3, 2013)

However, I saw that statement weeks ago, so they could be sold out for all I know.


----------



## Oceania (Mar 3, 2013)

I enjoyed the shit outta bioshock 2 so someone give me the summery of infinate?


----------



## Suigetsu (Mar 4, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> Couldn't you still find a copy in a retail store?



I will check bestbuy or gamestop. I prefer bestbuy thought.
Online it says sold out.


----------



## Slice (Mar 4, 2013)

The only thing keeping me from pre-ordering this is that there is still no information if the (german) xbox version comes with the english version.
Why do they take so long to announce what languages are on the disc? I just dont get it.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 4, 2013)

Forerunner said:


> I enjoyed the shit outta bioshock 2 so someone give me the summery of infinate?



The game isn't out yet, so the only info here is stuff we've already seen. There shouldn't be any spoilers.





Suigetsu said:


> I will check bestbuy or gamestop. I prefer bestbuy thought.
> Online it says sold out.



Does it say anything about in-store?  



Slice said:


> The only thing keeping me from pre-ordering this is that there is still no information if the (german) xbox version comes with the english version.
> Why do they take so long to announce what languages are on the disc? I just dont get it.



From what I've seen during my visits across the pond, don't most European games come with all of the "major" European languages as selections? That would include English.


----------



## Slice (Mar 4, 2013)

Usually they do, but since the box only uses DVD's there isnt always enough space for all languages so they cut it down.

All the Halo and Mass Effect games only have the German voices and (more recently) Tomb Raider only has German and French. The same happened to Dead Space (1) that (fortunately) had a great German dub - but usually those suck so i import from the UK whenever a game doesnt include the original language.

One of the many shortcomings of the 360 compared to the ps3.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 4, 2013)

what's wrong with your native language???


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 4, 2013)

Ahhh, I see. No wonder you're concerned.  In that case I'm really not sure. You probably won't be able to find out until you can pick up the actual game case and look at the back.


----------



## Slice (Mar 4, 2013)

Theres nothing wrong with the language itself. Germany is even known for high quality dubs / voice acting in movies and TV series (i'd say we have some of the best in the world).

Unfortunately that does not apply to video games, they often sound cheap with unfitting voices and a total lack of emotion. Hard to describe but more often than not they simply sound bad.


----------



## Oceania (Mar 4, 2013)

points for honesty about your home town video game voice acting.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 12, 2013)

so, Ken personally killed off the Bioshock movie :ho


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 12, 2013)

Thank god.

Man, what good ending to that.  It would have never worked--not because of the source material, but because of the ties it would have to fulfill.


----------



## bigduo209 (Mar 13, 2013)

*All combat, no story spoilers!*

[YOUTUBE]z-YomQ6csUg[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Krory (Mar 15, 2013)

A further list of voice actors has been revealed.



> Jennifer Hale (Mass Effect, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic) - Rosalind Lutece
> Oliver Vaquer (Dexter, GTA: Liberty City Stories) - Robert Lutece
> Kiff VandenHeuvel (SWTOR, Midnight Club 3: Dub Edition) - Comstock
> Kimberley D. Brooks (Mass Effect, Batman: Arkham City) - Daisy Fitzroy
> ...


----------



## DedValve (Mar 15, 2013)

Forerunner said:


> I enjoyed the shit outta bioshock 2 so someone give me the summery of infinate?



The princess is in another castle. and you dont want to find her


----------



## Krory (Mar 15, 2013)

To put some more detail to any names you might not recognize...

I would hope Jennifer Hale stands out most to you people but most notably, she was FemShep in the _Mass Effect_ series.

Oliver Vaquer is mostly bit roles in television shows. He was in an English version of the animated flick from Denmark, _Ronal the Barbarian_, as Elric and also voiced DJ Boy Sanchez of the Rise FM radio station in _Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories_.

Kiff VandenHeuvel voiced Vince in _Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition_ and Skavak in _Star Wars: The Old Republic_. He also has a recurring role on the television show _Guides_.

Kimberly Brooks (I am presuming is who they mean) who voiced Ashley Williams in the _Mass Effect_ series, Barbara Gordon/Oracle in _Batman: Arkham City_ and Rosalind in _Lollipop Chainsaw_.

As stated, Keith Szarabajka was in the film _Argo_ as Adam Engell. but also voiced Didact in _Halo 4_, The Crowfather, The Scribe, and Wicked K in _Darksiders II_, Kalrow in _Asura's Wrath_, and various lesser roles in other games such as _Skyrim_ and _Dragon Age II_.

Bill Lobley was Jodene Sparks in the television show _Sealab 2021_, Bragg in _The Darkness II_ and Deputy Thornton in _Alan Wake_, as well as Stanley Poole in _BioShock 2_.


----------



## Gipsy Danger (Mar 16, 2013)

For me, Keith Szarabajka immediately stood out asI AM ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL OF THIS POST.

THIS FORM IS MEANINGLESS. IF I MUST TEAR THIS THREAD APART, I WILL.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 17, 2013)

8 days 21 hrs 48 mins 37 secs
until game release​


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 17, 2013)

It's about damn time for a countdown.  

I mean, I know I'll be getting Monster Hunter on the 19th and Luigi's Mansion and Pokemon Mystery Dungeon on the 24th, but I will play the shit out of this game day 1... well, not immediately, because I work on Tuesdays. 

BUT REST ASSURED, THE SHIT WILL BE PLAYED OUT OF IT THAT TUESDAY NIGHT AND THE DAYS FOLLOWING.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 17, 2013)




----------



## bigduo209 (Mar 18, 2013)

Satsuma0 said:


> For me, Keith Szarabajka immediately stood out asI AM ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL OF THIS POST.
> 
> THIS FORM IS MEANINGLESS. IF I MUST TEAR THIS THREAD APART, I WILL.



I know Keith Szarabajka from the TV show Angel, he played the role of Holtz (Angel's enemy when he was Angelus). The man creates an army of people willing to die for him, and kidnaps the man's Son to turn into the person who's best suited to kill him.

Now that's what I call a badass villain.


----------



## Krory (Mar 18, 2013)

Is it, though?


----------



## DedValve (Mar 18, 2013)

Looks like IGNs exclusive review is receiving a lot of flak and stirring up quite a bit of controversy







Got it from here 

Ahh gaming industry practices, like a fresh cup of coffee you can always count on a good ol' terrible business practice to get you through the day. Or...something like that.

It's hilarious to see Gies and Keighley weigh their opinion in as if they had a right in the matter


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 18, 2013)

Exclusive reviews are gross. I'm sad to see 2K/Irrational going this route with Bioshock Infinite. Also, a four day lead on the review is crazy.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 18, 2013)

why does even matter though? I mean to me I will solely go with Fan Reviews and Reactions.. Gaming Journalism is horseshit to begin with..


----------



## Furious George (Mar 18, 2013)

Khris said:


> why does even matter though? I mean to me I will solely go with Fan Reviews and Reactions.. Gaming Journalism is horseshit to begin with..



What makes Fan Reviews and Reactions (love how you capped those. XD) any more reliable than Gaming Journalism? Fans tend to be stupid.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 18, 2013)

Furious George said:


> What makes Fan Reviews and Reactions (love how you capped those. XD) any more reliable than Gaming Journalism? Fans tend to be stupid.



well it depends on the fans/review of course  

I can tell a stupid opinion from another


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 18, 2013)

Khris said:


> why does even matter though? I mean to me I will solely go with Fan Reviews and Reactions.. Gaming Journalism is horseshit to begin with..


The internet does not know how to use the term "gaming journalism" when referring to reviewers and news writers who are at best consumer advocates or enthusiast press. Neither of those labels makes them worthy of the title of "journalist", and yes that is an important distinction.


Khris said:


> well it depends on the fans/review of course
> 
> I can tell a stupid opinion from another


I can discern a stupid "professional" review from a well written/thought out one. It is no different except "fans" are amateurs and  often don't know how to write and almost certainly do not have editors to fix their garbage. You probably have no understanding of how important an editor is.


----------



## Krory (Mar 18, 2013)

Shouldn't really be surprised by 2K (and I doubt Irrational had a hand in it).


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 18, 2013)

Stumpy said:


> The internet does not know how to use the term "gaming journalism" when referring to reviewers and news writers who are at best consumer advocates or enthusiast press. Neither of those labels makes them worthy of the title of "journalist", and yes that is an important distinction.


I really wasn't referring to the internet alone.. any guy I know that played a game I was interested in could give me a valuable opinion. or information to make me decide to buy the game or not. 



> I can discern a stupid "professional" review from a well written/thought out one. It is no different except "fans" are amateurs and  often don't know how to write and almost certainly do not have editors to fix their garbage. You probably have no understanding of how important an editor is.



as long as the core information is intact then it's all okay right? 

IMO it's just hard to find really honest opinions in Professional Reviews.. sure fan reviews has that too, but you can call them on their bullshit


----------



## DedValve (Mar 19, 2013)

Khris said:


> why does even matter though? I mean to me I will solely go with Fan Reviews and Reactions.. Gaming Journalism is horseshit to begin with..



It matters because everyone is butthurt that they dint get to review the game first


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 19, 2013)

can't wait for dis shit


----------



## Furious George (Mar 19, 2013)

6 days 12 hrs 19 mins 31 secs
until game release ​


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 20, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> I'm not keen on pre-order stuff, but for those in here who want to get this on pc here are some deals that might interest you



gmg updated their deal


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 20, 2013)

^Nice. You buy Bioshock Infinite (Which should be great) and get one of the best games from last year? Fucking win


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 20, 2013)

Amazon also have a deal on it. 





> Pre-order "BioShock Infinite" and get "XCOM: Enemy Unknown" Free + $30 2K Games Credit + "BioShock Infinite: Mind in Revolt" for Kindle + "Industrial Revolution Pack"



I think the GMG deal looks the best out of these. 38€ for basically 4 big games.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 20, 2013)

Looks like Gamestop is having a midnight release for the game. I'll be there.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 20, 2013)




----------



## Bluth (Mar 21, 2013)

The more I think about it the more I worry that this won't live up to the expectation that I'm putting in it.  I feel like this game is going to be something of the last great great game of this console generation.  The first Bioshock was a bit of a step into the current gen I felt in terms of the world building, the graphics, the gameplay, just the overall feeling to the game, now this one feels to me like a leading step into the next gen, again the combat, the world, the character of Elizabeth, it just feels like a A to A+ game, at the same time I know how hard that is to accomplish, the first Bioshock did for me.  I never played Bioshock 2 since it seemed unnecessary to me.  I haven't been this hyped for a game since ME3 (which was a slight disappointment) 

Oh well I know it will be at least a very good game.


----------



## Krory (Mar 21, 2013)

You're putting too much thought into it.


----------



## bigduo209 (Mar 21, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]v09tGcW51sU[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]L_-CIk5VYH0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Krory (Mar 21, 2013)

Must. Not. Watch.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 21, 2013)




----------



## Death-kun (Mar 21, 2013)

I shall resist watching, I want to experience it all myself.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 21, 2013)

4 days 2 hrs 30 mins 15 secs
until game release.​
Its coming its coming 

chocolate is better than grapes chocolate is better than grapes.


----------



## Suigetsu (Mar 21, 2013)

I am going to the launch Party at L.A.!!! Yahooa!


----------



## dragonbattousai (Mar 22, 2013)

IGN's review is up.  Kinda sucks the PC version is the best to play it on because I do not own a Gaming PC and have to settle on the 360 Version... -_-


----------



## Krory (Mar 22, 2013)

The PC version for 90% of the games that are out is the best version to play. How is this news?

Especially for a first-person game like this.


----------



## Slice (Mar 22, 2013)

dragonbattousai said:


> IGN's review is up.  Kinda sucks the PC version is the best to play it on because I do not own a Gaming PC and have to settle on the 360 Version... -_-



I dont have a pc either and will play this on xbox but i am glad that the PC version is superior.

I really hate when a PC version is just a rushed console port with the same shitty resolution and textures. Console hardware is 7 years old and should _not_ be the standard.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Mar 22, 2013)

Krory said:


> The PC version for 90% of the games that are out is the best version to play. How is this news?
> 
> Especially for a first-person game like this.



Youngsters dont know the world and its PC mustard race ways. This is about as surprising as another CoD sequel.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 22, 2013)

PC master race teh besto.

I have no regrets pre-ordering the Ultimate Songbird Edition for PC. It's gonna look and play beautifully.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 22, 2013)

Ok guys, I don't care about the series but  I have to post this here.




*Spoiler*: __ 



 a lot of people still jelly


----------



## Furious George (Mar 22, 2013)

^That is... almost funny, but I don't like giving kotaku credit. 

People had the right to be "jelly", "butt-hurt" and everything else about the exclusive review thing. 

It is pretty greasy and like my man Sessler said it reveals how immature gaming is in its business practices. You don't see this kind of stuff when you are dealing with film, music or novel reviews.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 22, 2013)

This game was built for consoles in mind make no mistake. The only problem here is that the ambition of the game is outstripping the abilities of the consoles to catch up.

Its the same for games like Farcry 3, which was also obviously tailored for consoles. Its not a next gen game, but its not being satisfied by current consoles.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 22, 2013)




----------



## G (Mar 22, 2013)

i heard this game is, like, good


----------



## Suigetsu (Mar 22, 2013)

hey anyone has the kotaku review link?
Oh nvm lolol.

IGNorant.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Mar 22, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> This game was built for consoles in mind make no mistake. The only problem here is that the ambition of the game is outstripping the abilities of the consoles to catch up./QUOTE]
> 
> The 2 weapon limit and shield regeneration made that much obvious. Thank God that Ken Levine can still design a game that's not completely limited by the hardware of last gen consoles. He's been doing games for the PC ever since the System Shock days.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 24, 2013)

*1 days 21 hrs 37 mins 18 secs
until game release *​


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 24, 2013)

so, 1999 mode is available through some code? Anyone know the story behind this?


----------



## Krory (Mar 24, 2013)

1999 Mode is accessed by beating the game, but as an easter egg it can be accessed right from the start by simply entering the Konami code. This won't have an affect on trophies/achievements.


    X-box 360: Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A

    PS3: Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, O, X


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 24, 2013)

And none for PC.


----------



## Krory (Mar 24, 2013)

Presumably.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 24, 2013)

Bioshock infinite....


----------



## Krory (Mar 24, 2013)

Yes, that is the name of the game.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 24, 2013)

This game is orgasmic 

Liking Elizabeth's personality so far.. she's not a chump, but not in god mode either(no pun intended)


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 24, 2013)

pre-load complete


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 24, 2013)

can't wait for tuesday ;-; ;-; ;-;


----------



## Krory (Mar 25, 2013)

Polygon's review of BioShock Infinite, courtesy of Arthur Gies, will be going up at 8am EST (four hours). I guess that's when the embargo is lifted?


----------



## Falcon (Mar 25, 2013)

One more day, AAAHHHH!


----------



## Slice (Mar 25, 2013)

A day before release and there still isnt any reliably information if the xbox version is multilanguage.
It cant be this hard for a publisher to write one sentence on their homepage that clarifies this. 

Apparently it leaked a few days ago and there are contradicting statements if the disc includes all languages or if its only one.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 25, 2013)

reviews are up

 - 9/10
 - 10/10
 - 10/10
 - 5 stars
 - 9.1
 - 10/10


----------



## fireking77 (Mar 25, 2013)

Got the game  fuck yeah


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 25, 2013)

Dawn of the Final Day. 

15 hours remain.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 25, 2013)




----------



## Doom85 (Mar 25, 2013)

I have played many games in my life, some of which hinted at where the medium could go, but I never expected any one game to so re-invigorate, re-define, and open up the possibilities of video games without having to ashoe its fundamental pleasures. Bioshock Infinite, in all its strange, beautiful, flamboyance and subtlety, will be discussed, argued and lionized for a long, long time. But for now, just play it and get lost in its brilliance. - Adam Sessler

Holy shit, that's some high praise. Can we just eradicate today from existence and make it automatically tomorrow already?!


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 25, 2013)

That just makes me more incredulous.  

I'l buy it tomorrow, and I'm excited for it, but that's ludicrous praise.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 25, 2013)

if you actually look at a majority of the reviews, its not just adam saying that kind of thing. Its like everyone is saying the same thing to me. The game is amazing but apparently has a few flaws that don't detract from the overall experience in any way. Bascially, if you could getthrough bioshock 1's slow bits such as the time after the twist and the lackluster ending to appreciate that gem, your gonna be even more in tuned with this game, because those issues have been completely fixed.

Infact the only thing i've heard as a consistent blemish is a somewhat slow middle


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 25, 2013)

This game will be GotY.

inb4it'sonlymarch


----------



## Furious George (Mar 25, 2013)

Its Bioshock. 

Not fake Bioshock like Bioshock 2 but real Bioshock like Bioshock 1.

I don't doubt the insane praise for a second.


----------



## Krory (Mar 25, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> reviews are up
> 
> - 9/10
> - 10/10
> ...



To add on to these...

XBox360Achievements gave it a 100.

GameInformer gave it a 10/10.

EGM gave it a 10/10.

OXM gave it a 9.5/10.

GameSpot gave it a 9/10.

OXM UK gave it a 9/10.

It's averaging a 96 for the 360 version on Metacritic. 95 for the PS3 and PC versions.


----------



## Krory (Mar 25, 2013)

I don't think it was posted so...

Official Launch Trailer


----------



## TylerDurden (Mar 25, 2013)

When is this comin' out? March 29th?

I'm getting this as soon as my allowance arrives on my account. Hope it's worth every penny....


----------



## Krory (Mar 25, 2013)

It comes out in the US tomorrow.

Not sure about other regions. 29th sounds right, but not certain.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 25, 2013)

3 more hours to go woo


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 25, 2013)

"obviously all the reviewers(even jim) were paid off, there's no way the game could be so good, Ken Levine is a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) phony! ect ect"


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 25, 2013)

Who is saying that?


----------



## Krory (Mar 25, 2013)

The internet. Who else?


----------



## SageMaster (Mar 25, 2013)

I'm a little late for this, but I finally played Bioshock 1 and 2 during the last week.

I've been freaking missing out. Now I'm eagerlessly waiting for BI, which thankfully comes out pretty soon.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 25, 2013)

Krory said:


> The internet. Who else?



Correct. A fitting reminder;

on the internet, even the most fucking ass retarded opinions you didn't even know existed do in some way, shape or form, exist and are espoused by somebody somewhere


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 25, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> This game will be GotY.
> 
> inb4it'sonlymarch



no doubt in my mind that it's a contender..


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 25, 2013)

pretty good so far 

only complaint is the lack of save options. There's only checkpoints. Not cool, Ken


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 25, 2013)

Unlock damn you!

Irrational Games level designer, Shawn Elliott, and PC Gamer recommend playing the game on Hard Mode if you are "skilled".


I guess if Shawn recommends it then that is how I'm playing it. I am very rarely a Hard Mode type gamer.


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 25, 2013)

Five minutes remaining, right? Please tell me thats it? Fucking Steam page only updates every hour.

edit: UNPACKING FILES


----------



## Suigetsu (Mar 26, 2013)

I will be going to the launch party with some friends in some minutes. Tell ya guys later how it went ok?


----------



## Jake CENA (Mar 26, 2013)

96/100?

What is this?? A 20hrs fps???


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Mar 26, 2013)

Have not been following this game at all but holy fuck I can't remember the last time a game got a reception like this.  May have to get it... Edit: Only problem is that I tend to get motion sick when playing first-person games.


----------



## Krory (Mar 26, 2013)

So yeah, end result is a 96 for PC from 30 reviews, 96 on 360 from 9, and a 95 on PS3 from I forget how many.

I've actually been watching a lot of stuff on Elizabeth (like the IGN video on her creation). It was great seeing how excited the Russian cosplayer was about being hired by Irrational.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 26, 2013)

the combat is certainly the best in any Bioshock imo. This was my general concern prior to release, it's good they improved it. Feels very fluid.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 26, 2013)

Picked up my Songbird Edition at midnight last night, will enjoy opening this morning.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 26, 2013)

First no save options, now 2 weapon limit? Keeeeeeeeeeen


----------



## Dream Brother (Mar 26, 2013)

I usually don't play any shooters, but this game sounds interesting due to all the praise it is receiving for its storytelling. Might check it out.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Mar 26, 2013)

Even auto-saves up the ass, 2 weapon limit and regenerating shields don't make this a bad game but they sure are dumb design decisions. I wish I had my entire arsenal at my disposal at some of the most chaotic confrontations considering how FUCKING awesome the combat already is but I get a little offtrack when I switch weapons from bodies constantly.

At least we keep the ammo for weapons we're not carrying. Thank God for that. But again, FUCK, the combat is awesome. Ironically enough, it has a very old school feel to it, it's very fast paced.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 26, 2013)

Yeah, the combat is deliciously chaotic and dynamic. Best first person enemy encounters in a long time.

I don't even mind the weapon limit anymore. The way I have to pick up another one mid-combat makes it even more frantic, but there's also some convenient tears placement regarding weapons.

I do hope they patch in manual save later though.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 26, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> I don't even mind the weapon limit anymore. *The way I have to pick up another one mid-combat makes it even more frantic*, but there's also some convenient tears placement regarding weapons.



So there aren't any issues with quickly picking up / switching weapons?


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 26, 2013)

I haven't noticed. Probably I didn't have any time to  Everything's so fast.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 26, 2013)

They had weapon wheel in Bio1, so why not Infinite? Seems like the appropriate answer.

Anyways, i'm at 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 Chen's GunSmith area, its weird how nothing is changed outside of Chen's death even though we stepped through the tear. But the trippy factor of the people who were dead realizing their own death is slightly disconcerting in a good way


----------



## Taleran (Mar 26, 2013)

Maybe this is just me but I really don't like games where I can save willy nilly where ever I want. That system tends to take a lot of the tension of out the action for me because I know I have it saved a few seconds earlier.


----------



## Lord Genome (Mar 26, 2013)

so i cant get this on the PC, has anyone seen anything that might seperate the Xbox and Ps3 editions?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 26, 2013)

PS3 has marginally better performance, and Bioshock 1 comes free on the disk, so i'd recommend that one.

360 version is still worth buying though if that's your only option


----------



## Lord Genome (Mar 26, 2013)

i have both consoles, just didnt want the same thing to happen like with skyrim(ps3 version)


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 26, 2013)

there's no situation like that


----------



## Mako (Mar 26, 2013)

How's the game so far? Is it worth it to rent it?


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 26, 2013)

How do you mean like what happened with Skyrim? If you mean it being a buggy mess, then no, that wouldn't happen.

Now installing the game, and then I'm gonna redeem all the codes and shit that I got.


----------



## MCTDread (Mar 26, 2013)

I was stunned just by watching Adam Sessler’s review... I haven’t played the Bioshock series but... Now I want Infinite


----------



## OS (Mar 26, 2013)

Need help


*Spoiler*: __ 



 Should I kill the military dude? Slate i believe. These Bioshock choices got confusing when killing Alexander in 2 was a bad thing


----------



## Lord Genome (Mar 26, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> How do you mean like what happened with Skyrim? If you mean it being a buggy mess, then no, that wouldn't happen.
> 
> Now installing the game, and then I'm gonna redeem all the codes and shit that I got.



yeah thats what i meant lol

this game is crazy, playiing it on hard. tbh the only things killing me are the turrets and fire people so far


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 26, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> Need help
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



To be true to dewitts character, you probably should not


----------



## Byrd (Mar 26, 2013)

So how is the game so far?


----------



## Shock Therapy (Mar 27, 2013)

it's fucking amazing and the graphics are breathtaking. set everything to ultra and begin to drool


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 27, 2013)

Whelp..i just beat the game..just now. And...i can say that Ken was right about people thinking it was either the greatest ending of all time or want to burn down his office.


*Spoiler*: __ 



WHAT THE *FUCK*, THAT WAS LIKE 10x MORE THAN EVEN THE GREATEST GAINAX OFFENDER, THIS TOPS EVANGELION'S ANIME ENDING AND EOE COMBINED IN WHAT THE FUCK, AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THAT'S GOOD OR BAD RIGHT NOW.

*EDIT*

*Oh God, oh god* i just redid the very beginning boat ride, oh god, the fucking foreshadowing is off the goddamned charts with those two, *oh god*


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 27, 2013)

How long was the game, Inu?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 27, 2013)

I was playing on and off since getting the game monday night, i'd say maybe about 12 hours average. That's if you go through normally, picking up some things, but not being an intentional collector.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 27, 2013)

I see, sounds about right considering how long the other two Bioshock games were. I'm the kind of guy that will try to discover everything, so it should last me 15+ hours.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 27, 2013)

I will say, that your probably going to be pressing up on the D-pad *a lot*. The areas can become mazelike sometimes, so its hard to navigate and you have to keep pressing it to get a sense of your general direction. I wish they had just kept the compass arrow of the previous game. Obviously having a map in the options menu would not work because your not in a fixed setting, but the compass would be have been adequate, popping up at the appropriate times.


----------



## Lord Genome (Mar 27, 2013)

i havent used the up button all that much tbh

i explore every nook and cranny, just finished 
*Spoiler*: __ 



the slate quest




about how much is left in the game? i hope a lot


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 27, 2013)

Not even close really. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Slate


 is like 25% into the game.


----------



## Shock Therapy (Mar 27, 2013)

actually the other two bioshocks were fairly short compared to this one. i was able to beat bioshock 2 in less than 10 hours IIRC. however this one, i'm playing on hard and collecting everything i can so maybe that's why it's taking much longer :s


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 27, 2013)

Bioshock 2's main story is much shorter than bio 1's. I dunno about the DLC, but i don't count Bio2 as much of a bioshock game anyway cause Ken didn't work on it.


----------



## Suigetsu (Mar 27, 2013)

So multiple endings? or just one ending?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 27, 2013)

^

*Hahaha.*


*Spoiler*: __ 



depends on how you want to look at it


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 27, 2013)

best FPS campaign since Episode 2 so far


----------



## Krory (Mar 27, 2013)

Just got to the Hall of Heroes.

GOTY all the way.

GOTD.

GOTM.

Whatever. It all works.


----------



## Alien (Mar 27, 2013)

Save system is pretty ass. I can deal with good checkpoint systems but they feel too far apart in this.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 27, 2013)

I've had no issues with the save system so far. Of course, the fact that you never have to reload when you die helps.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 27, 2013)

Have so much to say but holding it all in until I beat the game. 

So many feels.


----------



## Slice (Mar 27, 2013)

Started the game a good 90 minutes ago, so far it is amazing.

: datworldbuilding

Will avoid the thread until i finish it though - im scared of spoilers.


----------



## TylerDurden (Mar 27, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> PS3 has marginally better performance, and Bioshock 1 comes free on the disk, so i'd recommend that one.
> 
> 360 version is still worth buying though if that's your only option



what do u mean? we get Bioshock 1 for free if u buy the game? (color me surprised, sounds too good to be true)


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 27, 2013)

TylerDurden said:


> what do u mean? we get Bioshock 1 for free if u buy the game? (color me surprised, sounds too good to be true)



Yup, when you pop in the disc it shows up for you to install.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 27, 2013)

Unfortunately the bundling is only for Canada/US territories i think :/

I dunno if importing is your thing, but i'd give that a try if people want Bio 1 free outside of the Northern Americas.


----------



## Krory (Mar 27, 2013)

Also, I feel compelled to say that I love A Man and A Lady. Both so vastly entertaining, unbelievably so. There's a lot about this game that I just can't put into words about how moving it is. Those first moments were so supremely satisfying and engrossing, like the first time playing _BioShock_.


----------



## TylerDurden (Mar 27, 2013)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yup, when you pop in the disc it shows up for you to install.



Wow, very nice info bro, thanks a bunch!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Rios (Mar 27, 2013)

Is there some hidden agreement between Dead Space and Bioshock? One is dark and tries to be scary while the other is bright and tries to be action packed


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 27, 2013)

Just finished it, aaaaaand wow. The climax. WOW

I don't even, I just... there are no words. 

This is history books tier, people.

edit: oh yeah, don't forget to stay till the end of the credits


----------



## Zaru (Mar 27, 2013)

Welp, won't be playing this for another year despite owning it. Until they fix the stuttering issues, it's pretty much unplayable. Benchmark runs fine but whenever the game loads something it goes to hell.


----------



## Sasuke (Mar 27, 2013)

This game is incredible. I never played the original Bioshock, and all of five minutes of the sequel, so the experience and gameplay is pretty fresh for me.


----------



## Rios (Mar 27, 2013)

Stun chance when you get hit on jacket + AoE stun when you do more damage than necessary on a mob + horse power(the one that......stuns) + Grenade Launcher with all upgrades = waltzing in and immobilizing everything but the big guys. 

Its nice, I can see other OP ways to play(Commander Shepard Vanguard style charge with all melee damage equipment) but its doubtful I'll play it again in the near future. The constant ransacking, hey here is some ammo in the middle of combat and hey here is some coins outside combat is just tooooooo tedious.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 27, 2013)

Sasuke said:


> I never played the original Bioshock



You should have.  



> and all of five minutes of the sequel



I'm sorry.  



> so the experience and gameplay is pretty fresh for me.



It would be fresh to you even if you had played the original. That's the beauty of so drastically switching things up.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh and just to add:

*No shitty pipe puzzles

No Quick Time Events

Elizabeth lockpicks for you*

Get with the fucking program, FPS developers. This infatuation with mini-games in FPSes need to die. They're not bad by themselves but they are always used without exception to pad a fucking shooting game rather than just doing them for a fun little distraction.


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 27, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> Just finished it, aaaaaand wow. The climax. WOW
> 
> I don't even, I just... there are no words.
> 
> ...


Damn, you stud. I don't have that kind of endurance anymore. I feel like I'm half way or two thirds through the game.

I've been taking a lot of screenshots because the game is so beautiful. The following screenshot is a complete non-spoiler example of such beauty.


----------



## Brandon Heat (Mar 27, 2013)

Did you eat it?


----------



## Deathgun (Mar 27, 2013)

So....   I just finished it. 


I am.. my brain.   Is in shambles.


----------



## TylerDurden (Mar 28, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Welp, won't be playing this for another year despite owning it. Until they fix the stuttering issues, it's pretty much unplayable. Benchmark runs fine but whenever the game loads something it goes to hell.



I too can't play the game until the next two weeks owing to the upcomin' exams....But the great news is i haven't played Bioshock 1 (only Bioshock 2), so the bonus of the first bioshock for every purchase of the game is a pretty nice bargain...


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 28, 2013)

This game man.. this game 


my backlog is big.. but i will try and finish it when i return home today


----------



## Shock Therapy (Mar 28, 2013)

honestly the graphics in this game. this is why i built a gaming PC. fucking gorgeous


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

Just beat it.

I...

I don't know.

I think I need to lay down and cry.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Even though Booker being Comstock was something that crossed my mind numerous times when they started getting into more alternate-universe shit, they still managed to make it dramatic and surprising.


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

Also...


*Spoiler*: __ 



I like how they had the first-draft Elizabeth amongst the group at the end.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Mar 28, 2013)

George what's so bad about Bioshock 2


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

You mean besides it being a mostly lazy cash-in in both the name of _Bioshock_ and in shoehorned multiplayer modes?

The only good that came out of the game is the character of Eleanor Lamb.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 28, 2013)

anyone here managed to collect all voxophones? I felt I did a pretty throughout exploration, yet only got 60 out of 80. Same with the telescopes and kinetoscopes.


----------



## Ciupy (Mar 28, 2013)

I'm about 1/3 ways in the game and I just can't shake the feeling that this is going to end in a big mindfuck..

Like watching an episode of the Twilight Zone basically,only this time you are the poor shmuck that is about to be screwed.

Also,some heavy foreshadowing going on.

I wonder how well all those hints will fit after I finish the game.


Anyway,great,great atmosphere and worldbuilding.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 28, 2013)

Daaaamn, my laptop did pretty good with the benchmark. Decided to install it on both my PC and laptop for the hell of it. I'm not entirely sure of the fps, but it definitely looked like my laptop was pushing 30+ fps on high settings. 

Still going to play it on my gaming rig first, though.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 28, 2013)

bio2 should not be mentioned in a crowd of ken fans.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 28, 2013)

I actually didn't mind Bioshock 2, I had fun with it. Yes, it didn't feel like a good Bioshock game, but I still think it was a good game. Like how RE6 wasn't a good Resident Evil game but was still a good game.


----------



## TylerDurden (Mar 28, 2013)

Bioshock 2 is the only bioshock game i've ever played

It was fun, really fun even. Granted I didn't get into it with the same expectations as the ones that have gotten their hands on the first one.


----------



## Dragash1 (Mar 28, 2013)

Damn its hard not to watch the video's on youtube i dont want to spoiler myself.  I  already watched the first 40 mins of it, need to get the game fast. 

And i found Bioshock 2 more enjoyable then 1. It did so much things better, like the gameplay, even the story was great. Dont understand why people hate it on this forum.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 28, 2013)

Gilgamesh said:


> George what's so bad about Bioshock 2




Its bad because it was soulless in every sense, not only in its conception (which is to be expected. Cash Cow=/= automatic failure) but its execution. 

No thought at all went into the new characters, plot and elements... a*ll they really did was play a game of opposites with the original. The first had Big Daddy, now you have Big Sisters. The first had a villain obsessed with too little control, this one has a villain obsessed with too much, etc... *Rolled my eyes so many times when playing through it.

Bioshock 2 managed the incredible task of making your return-trip of Rapture really (almost too) faithful to the first game and yet *still* somehow completely avoided the original's creativity and artful depravity. The change in the Little Sisters are not obvious but perfectly put a face to the problem with the sequel. *In the first game Little Sisters were creepy sickly things that spouted out the most random and chilling things you've ever heard from a video game. The Bioshock 2 Sisters are ditzy little girly girls who say silly, cheesy things like "Big Sister doesn't want you playing with me." They are like a parody of everything that made the original great.* They are a walking failure of effective mood-setting, the _Evanescence_ of macabre horror.

The only credit I give to the sequel is some improved (and even this is exaggerated by the fans) gameplay mechanics. You never exactly feel like you're a Big Daddy, but some of the fights ended up awesome. 

Bioshock 2's biggest problem is not that it is "bad" in the most technical sense. The problem is that its useless... there is no reason to ever play this game.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 28, 2013)

because the story was passable(unforgivable sin), a ton of assets were reused straight from bio 1, and it was short as shit with tons of crap DLC and a shoehorned multiplayer that just follows what every other generic shooter on the market was doing. The gameplay was better, but that's not what i(and most people) play Bioshock for. I resent 2K Marin for making that cash grab as it denigrated the very high bar the shock franchise had previously set . Ken himself was adverse to making a second Rapture Bioshock because they had already tied up the story and it would have felt like a cheap cash in to squeeze money out of the license. Really, "big sister"? 

2K Marin should have just continued to make that XCOM remake like they were in the process of doing instead of cheapening an artistic masterpiece Bioshock 1 was. They actually degenerated their own input on Bioshock 1 by doing that. i would not say they were a bad studio, but making a 'bio2' really soured me, a "7 or 8" game is not Bioshock, even if its good game in the technical sense.

*EDIT*

I was Ninja'd by furious George while typing my piece, but essentially what he said and what i said combined.

Indeed, a perfect example of "i never asked for this", up there with stalwarts like Drakenguard 2 and the other unnecessary soulless sequels to superior games that had their own unique elements. Infinite is(pun not intended)infinitely more of a sequel to Bioshock 1 than 2 ever was.


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

Guys, I still need a hug.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 28, 2013)

-hugs krory-

You should have stayed after the credits, there is a second side to it that makes everything slightly less -kablooey-


----------



## TylerDurden (Mar 28, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Its bad because it was soulless in every sense, not only in its conception (which is to be expected. Cash Cow=/= automatic failure) but its execution.
> 
> No thought at all went into the new characters, plot and elements... a*ll they really did was play a game of opposites with the original. The first had Big Daddy, now you have Big Sisters. The first had a villain obsessed with too little control, this one has a villain obsessed with too much, etc... *Rolled my eyes so many times when playing through it.
> 
> ...



There's no reason not to play a not bad game...


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 28, 2013)

So far really enjoying it. The gameplay seems very run and gun but eventually else from the atmosphere to story really draws you in. Also some cool badass powers.


----------



## Alicia (Mar 28, 2013)

Does this game require you to have played the previous installments before?
Saw this at the store today and ultimately got UNS3 instead, but I can go back tomorrow.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 28, 2013)

no. but id recommend boi1 anyway cause its awesome


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> -hugs krory-
> 
> You should have stayed after the credits, there is a second side to it that makes everything slightly less -kablooey-



I did. That just made it a bigger mindfuck and made me want to cry more.

Also...


*Spoiler*: _Possible fridge brilliance_ 



I'm just putting this together now. The Heads v. Tails game of the Luteces... was all of the multiverse Bookers that went through the path of deluding themselves into going to Columbia.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 28, 2013)

TylerDurden said:


> There's no reason not to play a not bad game...



Disagree. 

If the draw of a particular series is mostly atmosphere, plot and characters its pointless to play an installment in that series that is severely lacking in all three. Bioshock 2 has no value. Its not like watching a "not bad movie". Its a waste of a lot more money.


----------



## Alicia (Mar 28, 2013)

Does Bioshock 2 still count as canon then?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 28, 2013)

Daftvirgin said:


> Does this game require you to have played the previous installments before?
> Saw this at the store today and ultimately got UNS3 instead, but I can go back tomorrow.



Not at all, although Bioshock 1 is definitely awesome and worth playing.

But are you in NA and getting it for PS3? If so it comes with bioshock 1.


----------



## TylerDurden (Mar 28, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Disagree.
> 
> If the draw of a particular series is mostly atmosphere, plot and characters its pointless to play an installment in that series that is severely lacking in all three. Bioshock 2 has no value. Its not like watching a "not bad movie". Its a waste of a lot more money.



i didn't expect Bioshock 2 to have the same draw as the first one (given the fact i haven't played Bioshock 1 until now), and in a general sense it's still a nice game

I like playing good games, whether they carry the identities and the signatures of the franchises they represent or not


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 28, 2013)

Brandon Heat said:


> Did you eat it?


Gobbled them right up.

As soon as I saw that easter egg, I was almost certain that it was placed by Shawn Elliott (Irrational level designer), so I had to tweet at him about it.



I'll take that as a confirmation.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 28, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



so if I got it right, Songbird, Handyman and the Vigors were made by Fink after he was "spying" on Tenenbaum and Suchong through a tear, right? I mean the voxophone only said "genius biologist", but it's safe to say that the tear was "looking at" Rapture.


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 28, 2013)

Fuck all these spoiler tags. I need to finish the game :S


----------



## Buckbeard (Mar 28, 2013)

How long is the, eh, campaign, singleplayer, however you'd like to call it..? (hardest difficulty, exploring, taking it easy)


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 28, 2013)

Just finished it... and Oh My God man 


*Spoiler*: __ 



i expected a mindfuck of epic proportions, but not like this.. 

and all throughout the game i was cursing comstock wanting to kill his ass as brutally as possible..

this game was just fucking wonderful, how they made you care for Elizabeth, how they made you hate Comstock, and how they made you feel that Columbia is really significant and how Booker was meshed in all kinds of shit.. 

All I have to say, hey other devs, WATCH AND FUCKING LEARN..

Setting - Perfect
Atmosphere - Perfect 
Twist - Perfect

This is how a game should be story-wise..

as for gameplay, this IMO beats Borderlands 2 with all the vigors and the sick chains you can do.. 

for me, so far.. this is GOTY... glad i picked this up.. never look back..



sorry for the tl;dr.













now I wish I can wipe my memory and play this again


----------



## Alicia (Mar 28, 2013)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Not at all, although Bioshock 1 is definitely awesome and worth playing.
> 
> But are you in NA and getting it for PS3? If so it comes with bioshock 1.



Not in NA but if I'm picking this up, its for PS3 yes.


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> so if I got it right, Songbird, Handyman and the Vigors were made by Fink after he was "spying" on Tenenbaum and Suchong through a tear, right? I mean the voxophone only said "genius biologist", but it's safe to say that the tear was "looking at" Rapture.



Oh God.

_Oh God_.

I never put that together. 

I wonder if that makes it fitting...


*Spoiler*: __ 



That Songbird died in the waters around Rapture. I bawled like a baby then. So sad.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 28, 2013)

I have Monster Hunter and just got Luigi's Mansion, but fuck it, I'm marathoning this tonight and tomorrow.

Will prepare myself for an unforgettable experience.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 28, 2013)

Krory said:


> Oh God.
> 
> _Oh God_.
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



yup, got the rapture thing, even if i never played bio1..





which reminds me, gotta play bio1


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 28, 2013)

Buckbeard said:


> How long is the, eh, campaign, singleplayer, however you'd like to call it..? (hardest difficulty, exploring, taking it easy)



On normal it took me about 12-13 hours. I took my time here and there and tried to explore as much as I could, but looking at my achievement progress notifications (or whatever they're called) apparently there was still a lot of unexplored areas left.  

I know some completed it on hard and 1999 mode in around 18 hours.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 28, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Still wanted an epic face-off against the Songbird, but I guess it makes more sense this way


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

I know I missed a lot - I must have because Elizabeth still had like 30 Lockpicks, I know I never went back to one cypher around where Chen-Lin's is.

And they totally got me when...


*Spoiler*: __ 



You unlock the gate in Comstock House to get to Elizabeth and turn around and there's one of the Boys of Silence standing directly behind you and trumpets in your face. Totally jumped.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 28, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Totally wanted to gruesomely kill that fuck


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 28, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



well, technically Booker did face-off against Songbird several times, but always died, thus future old Elizabeth transported him in the future and gave him that note so they could control him

and yeah that Boys of Silence part was soooo Bioshock 1


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



The way it was handled easily made Songbird's eventual death the most tragic moment in the game and possibly any game.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 28, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



so, how many modern songs did you guys notice? Cindy Lauper, Tears for Fears and Beach Boys totally blew my mind.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 28, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> so if I got it right, Songbird, Handyman and the Vigors were made by Fink after he was "spying" on Tenenbaum and Suchong through a tear, right? I mean the voxophone only said "genius biologist", but it's safe to say that the tear was "looking at" Rapture.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Let the circle be unbroken - Ryan's goals to build a society under the sea was 'inspired' by the legends of Comstock and his flying city, both to get away from society, but the ideologies were obviously completely opposite. Rapture and Columbia are more connected than anyone thought


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 28, 2013)

So what's a good strategy against Handymen?

I've been playing on hard and for the most part it's a good challenge, but those handymen are nuts.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 28, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm not sure Columbia and Rapture existed in the same universe. They were probably the variables in the lighthouse-city-man constant-based Bioshock multiverse


----------



## Buckbeard (Mar 28, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> On normal it took me about 12-13 hours. I took my time here and there and tried to explore as much as I could, but looking at my achievement progress notifications (or whatever they're called) apparently there was still a lot of unexplored areas left.
> 
> I know some completed it on hard and 1999 mode in around 18 hours.



Thank you. Will be buying this... probably.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 28, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Songbird made me miss my pet cockatiel


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 28, 2013)

so compared to infinite, how good is bio1? should i lower my expectations?





[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e4Crth_Hb8[/YOUTUBE]

all my feels


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 28, 2013)

I do think it's weaker in the combat department. The gunplay and plasmid combos feel rather clunky (the enemies are pretty good though). It's more seamless in Infinite. Also, the last third or so (after a certain event happens) is rather weak. But Rapture is a fascinating setting (might be better than Columbia), the writing, visuals and atmosphere are great. It's more horror-esque, disturbing. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



The Comstock House/Asylum part with the Boys if Silence totally felt like a callback to Bio1. 




While I'd rate Infinite a 9.5 or 10, I gave a Bio 1 at least a 8.5.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 28, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> I do think it's weaker in the combat department. The gunplay and plasmid combos feel rather clunky (the enemies are pretty good though). It's more seamless in Infinite. Also, the last third or so (after a certain event happens) is rather weak. But Rapture is a fascinating setting (might be better than Columbia), the writing, visuals and atmosphere are great. It's more horror-esque, disturbing.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



I see.. Rapture does look a tad bit darker.. I'll give it a whirl.. I know it has something to do with little girls, and you can either save them or absorb their powers or something.. and the main antagonist has a great design too.. not as great as songbird though 

thanx man..


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 28, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure Columbia and Rapture existed in the same universe. They were probably the variables in the lighthouse-city-man constant-based Bioshock multiverse




Theory destroyed


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 28, 2013)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So what's a good strategy against Handymen?
> 
> I've been playing on hard and for the most part it's a good challenge, but those handymen are nuts.



Shock Jockey/Crows and preferably Hand Cannon/Carbine while aiming at the heart were my tactics. It still made me sweat a lot. One tough mofo.

Also if there's a skyline near, get on it and wait till it jumps on it to shock it. Then get off and zap+shoot him.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 28, 2013)

FUCK ME NOW I WANT THIS


----------



## Alicia (Mar 28, 2013)

You guys are getting me hyped about this game, even though I had no intention of getting it.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 28, 2013)

Krory said:


> I know I missed a lot - I must have because Elizabeth still had like 30 Lockpicks, I know I never went back to one cypher around where Chen-Lin's is.
> 
> And they totally got me when...
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Shot the fucker in the face. I'm usually pretty sensitive but this game didn't scare me it at all. It unsettled me. 




Anyone else have as much trouble with the final part like I did? I don't think I upgraded my vigors or mastered their use up till that point. I was actually pretty conservative with vigor use up until the end.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 28, 2013)

Daftvirgin said:


> You guys are getting me hyped about this game, even though I had no intention of getting it.



I'd recommend this to any human that ever touched a controller in his/her lifetime.. GET IT DUDE..


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 28, 2013)

This game is game of the year and when the decade is done I'm pretty sure it will still rank high. This game is a defining moment of a generation.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 28, 2013)

Will do my second run later.. just need to return to my social life for a few hours


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 28, 2013)

Yep.

also, you know what's crazy


*Spoiler*: __ 



when you see those multiple Elizabeths and Bookers walking towards the lighthouses you can basically imagine them as other gamers playing this game 






Lord Yu said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Used Possession a lot, especially on the Patriots. Return to Sender too. As for weapons, it was mostly gatling gun and RPG with a lot of skyline movement and finishing move combined with the burning effect. Didn't die, but boy was it tough.


----------



## Ciupy (Mar 28, 2013)

Daftvirgin said:


> You guys are getting me hyped about this game, even though I had no intention of getting it.



It isn't remarkable in the gameplay department,it's just suitably fun in that area,though still better than Bioshock 1 in gameplay for what it's worth.


But holy shit the story and atmosphere are phenomenal.

Anyone that enjoys a good setting and fiction should play this.


(And I can't believe that Elizabeth is so..well,helpful and not annoying as an NPC sidekick.

And as a character she is so endearing..they did a great job on her design and characterization.)


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 28, 2013)

i wonder what the season pass is for. More story related shit i hope


----------



## Sasuke (Mar 28, 2013)

Just finished it. Wow. What a gorgeously crafted journey of mindfuckery.

I stared at my screen for at least three minutes after it ended. No game has left me that way.

Now to play through on 1999 mode and mop up the few achievements left.


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

Well all the DLC is going to be single-player they said, so I would think so, yeah.

Oh lawdy, the possibilities.

And I always thought Handymen were immune to Shock Jockey like Firemen were to Devil's Kiss.  It never seemed to do anything to them. I spammed the upgraded Devil's Kiss against Handymen then went balls-deep with the shotty or carbine.

I also personally love the pistol in this so I used that as much as possible. I hated most of the Vox weapons, though, like the repeater or burstgun or heater. And there was nothing quite like the crossbow or speargun from the first two games but that's okay. Everything else made up for it.


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

*Spoiler*: _About Boys of Silence_ 



Did you guys just say fuck it and go through alerting them and killing all the guys or did you try to stealth/sneak around? I did the latter but fucked up once.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 28, 2013)

but didn't Ken say, he has no business with the DLCs?


*Spoiler*: _BoS_ 



tried sneaking and messed up once.






> And I always thought Handymen were immune to Shock Jockey



it usually stopped them in their track for a short amount of time, leaving me the opportunity to aim at their heart.


----------



## Alicia (Mar 28, 2013)

Are "handymen" those cyborgs that throw you out of the window in the trailer?


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 28, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> Yep.
> 
> *also, you know what's crazy
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



*I actually thought that was the case like with Journey *






Krory said:


> *Spoiler*: _About Boys of Silence_
> 
> 
> 
> Did you guys just say fuck it and go through alerting them and killing all the guys or did you try to stealth/sneak around? I did the latter but fucked up once.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Yup  

ran out of ammo fast though


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

I don't remember Ken saying he's not involved.

This was in reply to one of the DLC complaints:



> RT @rogxue: @iglevine will it all be story or weapon/power packs and story content? -The story stuff I’m working on is love letter to fans.



Which says to me he _is_ working on story stuff for the DLC.


----------



## Ciupy (Mar 28, 2013)

Daftvirgin said:


> Are "handymen" those cyborgs that throw you out of the window in the trailer?



Yes,they are.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 28, 2013)

Oh, I see. That's cool then.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 28, 2013)

If only I had the money for the Season Pass. I bought this game with trade in money.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 28, 2013)

I'm SO glad ken is working on story stuff 

There are so many possibilities. More vigors, more interactions between liz and booker. infinite possibilities.


----------



## Not Sure (Mar 28, 2013)

Krory said:


> *Spoiler*: _About Boys of Silence_
> 
> 
> 
> Did you guys just say fuck it and go through alerting them and killing all the guys or did you try to stealth/sneak around? I did the latter but fucked up once.




*Spoiler*: __ 



I said fuck it the first time and tried my best to keep the enemies off of me. I failed...miserably. The second time I tried stealth instead and was pretty successful.




I feel sad that Songbird, a hulking flying Big Daddy Dragon thing, is far better at stealth and surprise attacks then I am. 
The Harsh times...
1999 mode...
The Struggle...


----------



## Furious George (Mar 28, 2013)

Just beat the game.............. 

Words fail me. 

I didn't get every recording-thing so there is stuff that isn't really clear to me, but what I got I'm going to be mulling over for hours. 

Levine has me now.


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

Oh, Jorge de Furioso. 

Do you need a hug like I did after first beating it?


----------



## axellover2 (Mar 28, 2013)

This game is sounding excellent. Makes me wonder what was so offensive the first go around. My sister wants to play it,but considering her religious background, I would hate to recommend something that would offend her.


----------



## Overwatch (Mar 28, 2013)

Goddamnit, people. I just started saving money and here you are spraying an ungodly amount of praise out of your fucking nipples.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 28, 2013)

Krory said:


> Oh, Jorge de Furioso.
> 
> Do you need a hug like I did after first beating it?



Not a hug, more like a good nap. A nap for my brain. This game is violating every mental orifice right now. :S

I came closest to needing a hug during...


*Spoiler*: __ 



"Don't take MY DAUGHTER!" Poor false shepherd.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 28, 2013)

My only thought during the raffle was Imma nail this dude in the nuts with this baseball.


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

I still say the worst (read: saddest) moment was...


*Spoiler*: __ 



When Elizabeth brought Booker and Songbird to Rapture with Songbird underwater. I was torn with admiring Rapture and watching Songbird thrash and slowly die while Elizabeth tried to soothe and comfort him. I just wanted to die.

But yeah, seeing baby Anna being taken through the tear, Booker screaming, seeing her poor widdle finger get snipped off by the closing tear... 




Needless to say, Troy Baker and Courtnee Draper and everyone with the voice-acting were astounding.

Whenever Booker didn't sound like Jake Muller, that is.


----------



## Slice (Mar 28, 2013)

Finished it. I have no idea where all the complains regarding a "corridor shooter with 5-6 hours playtime" come from. Played on hard and explored _a lot_ it took me roughly 15 hours to complete. I explored so much that i checked most areas twice and i still missed 8 voice recordings and (even more surprisingly) 7 of those videoboxes / telescopes (i wonder how the hell i did that they are huge and glow...).

Put all upgrades into shield and vigor in a 2:1 ratio and when shield was full all into vigor. Health is a waste of points.

Fully upgraded Murder of Crows and Possession in left hand. Fully upgraded shotgun in the right. The clothes that give you Salt on a kill and electrocute nearby enemies on an overkill. Send crows into a group, run into said group, oneshot the first enemy with the shotty, all other stay stunned either by crows or electrocution, repeat with the next one until no one is left. Rocketlauncher and heavy enemies get mind controlled to get them to suicide. So much fun. 


Ending was a work of art and the only thing i didnt really get is 
*Spoiler*: __ 



where do Elizabeths powers come from? Is she a random freak of nature or is it a result of her being exposed to a "wrong" universe from childhood on?


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

axellover2 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I watched the Raffle scene with that couple. I wasn't surprised considering the setting, but it did remind me that there is plenty of people who still think that way. Lord knows that Ive actually had people in my family tell me not to dare bring a white boy home and how shameful it would be to date one. Its also kinda jarring how you go from the raffle to fighting the police.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Not just the police, either. You fight the Vox Populi and the Founders both. Everything gets so out of hand.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 28, 2013)

Krory said:


> I still say the worst (read: saddest) moment was...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



not to mention you can see a dead Big Daddy in the background with a Little Sister crying at its side






Slice said:


> Ending was a work of art and the only thing i didnt really get is
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



when the tear closes and she loses her little finger she basically exists in two dimensions at the same time, thus she can make tears. I think Lucete says this in a voxophone. The part with her existing in two dimensions at the same time, that is. It's only at the very end that we connect it with her finger.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 28, 2013)

Krory said:


> I still say the worst (read: saddest) moment was...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Honestly there are so many powerful moments in this game that I'm probably never going to settle on a saddest scene overall. 

One that really cut me deep now that I think about it...


*Spoiler*: __ 



was during the Vox celebration in Shantytown when two of the soldiers were taking pictures in front of a dead Handyman. The image itself is just shocking in spite of the fact that you fought those guys a few times at that point. It goes to another level when you play the recording of the Handyman's former wife, listening to her goodbyes while the two soldiers are laughing and making goofy poses. Powerful stuff.


----------



## Slice (Mar 28, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> when the tear closes and she loses her little finger she basically exists in two dimensions at the same time, thus she can make tears. I think Lucete says this in a voxophone. The part with her existing in two dimensions at the same time, that is. It's only at the very end that we connect it with her finger.



Ah that makes sense, must have been in one of the few recordings i missed.


----------



## Alicia (Mar 28, 2013)

Ow so the "tears" Elizabeth makes are in the sense of "tearing" as in "tearing something apart", I thought you guys were talking about "tears" as in "the fluid that comes out of your eyes"


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 28, 2013)

More like rifts, but yeah, not crying 

I'm going to ask this again



αshɘs said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> so, how many modern songs did you guys notice? Cindy Lauper, Tears for Fears and Beach Boys totally blew my mind.



I'm pretty sure there were others I didn't recognize


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> not to mention you can see a dead Big Daddy in the background with a Little Sister crying at its side



I NEVER SAW THAT. OH MY GOD, HOW DID I MISS THAT?!

I just want to burst into tears again.




Furious George said:


> Honestly there are so many powerful moments in this game that I'm probably never going to settle on a saddest scene overall.
> 
> One that really cut me deep now that I think about it...
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I think I died a little inside when I got that voxophone.

On the racism level, there was also the Boxer Rebellion and Wounded Knee exhibits in the Hall of Heroes.

And really, everything dealing with the Luteces was especially excellent. I love Rosalind.

Also, when you go through the tear to find a living Chen Lin and then you see the Comstock shrine replacing the Buddha one and his Caucasian wife replacing the former Mrs. Lin. Coming across the individual Founders and such that remember being dead from the other side of the tear.

And dear fucking _God_, again, when Elizabeth is forced to kill Daisy Fitzroy.




Oh God, there's just too much.


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

*Spoiler*: _About the songs_ 



A rendition of "Tainted Love" was playing in the bar in Shanty Town.

Which reminds me, I love that it was actually Troy Baker playing the guitar in that section in the basement there when Booker picks up the guitar and Elizabeth/Draper sings.

And did you guys see both moments of the Cyndi Lauper song? There was the one you can hear in a tear, the actual song, but then early on in the in-door arcade/carnival type area of Battleship Bay had an instrumental rendition of it.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 28, 2013)

The anachronistic song choice really helps carry the theme of a city between worlds.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 28, 2013)

I'm trying to review this game but I know that I can't. At least not until I cool off a little. If I do it now it will be so much wank.


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

That's kind of how I feel right now, Jorge.  I beat it last night so I just still need to take it all in.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 28, 2013)

Same here. I wrote some stuff in the review thread, but barely could come up with something coherent 

Also, right now if I have to name something that I didn't like that much, then it's probably


*Spoiler*: __ 



the part with the ghost of Lady Comstock. That segment felt padded and the explanation wasn't satisfactory.






Overwatch said:


> Goddamnit, people. I just started saving money and here you are spraying an ungodly amount of praise out of your fucking nipples.



yeah, the last time I was blown away by a game like this at launch was HL2 



Krory said:


> *Spoiler*: _About the songs_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



yeah, I meant the cover songs


----------



## Furious George (Mar 28, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> the part with the ghost of Lady Comstock. That segment felt padded and the explanation wasn't satisfactory.



Bingo. You're in my head right now. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



As I was playing it I thought it was the coolest thing in the world. After I was through with it though it left a bad taste in my mouth. If there was a segment that this game could have done without its definitely that one. 

I think what makes even that mostly forgivable though is the way the game itself references how ridiculous it all was. 

"Uhh, Elizabeth... why is your mother a ghost?"


----------



## Slice (Mar 28, 2013)

Went over to Metacritic and read (some of) the negative user reviews.

Some of these guys sure seem like they never want to leave "No Fun Allowed land". I can see several reasons why some people would not like this game but 0,1 or 2 points out of 10 is just a joke. [Its one of the reasons i prefer rating out of 5 - in a 10 point scale people seem to forget the numbers 4-7 exist].


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

I don't like 5 point scales because a 3/5 to me means a 6/10 which is below-average so there's fewer "good" ratings. At least that's how I perceive things.


----------



## Slice (Mar 28, 2013)

But 10 point scales usually are used like this

Great game: 10
Good game: 9,8
Mediocre game: 7
Bad game: 6,5,4,3
Absolute shit game: 2,1,0

If everyone would use the scale correctly and rate decent but not quite "must buy good" games with a 6 or 7 it would work better.
Wasnt there this infamous IGN rating one time that basically said "8/10 - It's OK"?


Infinite is a clear 5/5 though.


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 28, 2013)

Just beat the game WHEEEEEEE I need some time to settle...


Krory said:


> I NEVER SAW THAT. OH MY GOD, HOW DID I MISS THAT?!
> 
> I just want to burst into tears again.


I didn't notice that either... It's a good thing I took 300 screenshots in my playthrough  I captured that moment:


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

Oh my God.

I'm dead.

I just can't.


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 28, 2013)

I played through on hard all the way until...

*Spoiler*: __ 



...the final air battle where you can control the Songbird. That was such BS. That was the part that made me want to cry more than anything else in the game. I got to the second zeppelin and the thing I had to protect died and never got there again. Changed difficulty and found out it ends basically right after the second zeppelin. So... I lost my "beat the game on hard" cheevo just like that 




My play through was 15 hours. Hard mode. Uploading 124 more screenshots to Steam...

If anyone wants to take a trip back through the game in screenshot form:


Obviously, MASSIVE spoilers.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 28, 2013)

Stumpy said:


> Just beat the game WHEEEEEEE I need some time to settle...
> 
> I didn't notice that either... It's a good thing I took 300 screenshots in my playthrough  I captured that moment:
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Like I said I didn't play the first 2 games.. but obviously this is such a cool tribute for those games




Irrational Games, you got yourselves a fan in me


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 28, 2013)

This is a tribute to the first game  Irrational didn't work on bio 2. The very first area of the game infact with beyond the sea playing as well!? Fuck Bio1 nostalgia of seeing the first commercial creeping up >_<


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

So, how did you guys handle...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Slate? I spared him. Found him later in the prison while looking for Chen Lin, where Elizabeth says how it might've been more merciful to have killed him before. I shot him and she remarks that it's what he wanted anyway, after all.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 28, 2013)

Krory said:


> So, how did you guys handle...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Did the exact same thing as you.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 28, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



So even the post-credits Booker doesn't end up with Elizabeth, because when Lutece makes you play the heads and tails game.. it still turns out to be heads, as representing all of Booker's realities in which he fails.. 

at least that's what I got from it


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

Great minds and all that.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 28, 2013)

Krory said:


> So, how did you guys handle...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I shot him. What About the bird or the cage? I chose the bird.


----------



## Krory (Mar 28, 2013)

*Spoiler*: _^_ 



I chose the bird, as well.


----------



## 115 (Mar 28, 2013)

So I already bought myself the season pass for this game, though now...


*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm curious as to how they'll play off the whole post-credits scene, maybe they'll incorporate it into the DLC or possibly we'll be taken to an alternate reality or something? Also did anyone else notice that on Booker's desk it said "1893" instead of "1892" in the post-credits scene, meaning an entire year had passed and he somehow managed to hold onto Elizabeth/Anna this time? At least that's what I took from it. 

On a side note I'm kinda disappointed that we never got to actually fight against Songbird.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 29, 2013)

So, I've been playing for a few hours and reached Monument Island. How far would you guys say I am? I doubt I'm very far at all.

Also, I never ended up completing that first optional objective. I had no idea there was a locked door anywhere around. And I doubt I can go back to investigate now.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 29, 2013)

I finished few optional objectives due to backtracking. The game doesn't seem very backtrack friendly.


----------



## Magic (Mar 29, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> So, I've been playing for a few hours and reached Monument Island. How far would you guys say I am? I doubt I'm very far at all.
> 
> Also, I never ended up completing that first optional objective. I had no idea there was a locked door anywhere around. And I doubt I can go back to investigate now.



It's a locked blue chest in a place you can pass by very easily. I've been playing for 3 hours, it's right before the raven cult place. Below a jump hook (don't know the proper name for those hooks)


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 29, 2013)

Ahhh, damn. I'm not even sure if I can go back now, due to what's happened so far. I was investigating around that area and came up with nothing, I assumed I had to find a door or something.


----------



## vegitabo (Mar 29, 2013)

Just finished the game. One major thing about the ending 
*Spoiler*: __ 



why was dewitt and his older self, comstock in the same universe... this made absolutely no sense cause it would mean he never made it back through the tear, which the ending clearing showed he did hence Elizabeth's missing finger


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

vegitabo said:


> Just finished the game. One major thing about the ending
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Rosalind and Robert brought him into Comstock's reality. This sort of makes sense since the opening is the lighthouse that we see act as portals to other realities later on, and we know that they have access to the tears as Rosalind was able to unite herself with Robert this way, and the Luteces used them to help Comstock acquire Anna in the first place.

The Luteces then helped compound the memories that Booker made up in his head to account for his lost memories, such as the photo of Elizabeth and the message on back.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Mar 29, 2013)

i'm playing bioshock 1 right now, can't imagine what this underground stuff has to do with that world in the commercial in pt 3. 

good game though, scary


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 29, 2013)

its all...metaphorical.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 29, 2013)

Oh god, this game is amazing so far. The dialogue and characters are wonderful. Especially when...


*Spoiler*: _Not really major spoilers of any kind_ 





Comstock says "The Lord forgives all... but I'm a prophet, so I don't have to".

Pure fucking gold.

Also, I'm in love with Elizabeth. And the scene of escaping Monument Island gave me chills.

And then when you're at the park, and Elizabeth comments on how having separate bathrooms for white and blacks/Irish just seems redundant and inconvenient.

So much awesomeness.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Mar 29, 2013)

Finished the game

holy shit 



Pretty interesting


----------



## Sasuke (Mar 29, 2013)

Krory said:


> So, how did you guys handle...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




Exactly the same.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

Frankly, I'm still in love with the Luteces.

Aside from my inevitable Tomb Raider tattoo I think another game tattoo I might want lies in their quote which is probably been the one that has stuck with me long after finishing the game. 

Said twice...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Once, when they are digging their own graves after Lady Comstock was "released." And again later right before Booker meets the older version of Elizabeth.




Robert: Lives, Lived, Will Live.
Rosalind: Dies, Died, Will Die.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Mar 29, 2013)

Krory said:


> So, how did you guys handle...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Spared him but didn't kill him later on


----------



## Furious George (Mar 29, 2013)

_
"I appreciate a lady who appreciates *value!*"_


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

I wonder if Levine did the voices for the vending machines again.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 29, 2013)

Dr.Douchebag said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Spared him but didn't kill him later on




*Spoiler*: __ 




Same


----------



## Deathgun (Mar 29, 2013)

Krory said:


> So, how did you guys handle...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



I gave him his wish, i figured that not only would it be mercy but I had the feeling that i would have to fight him again.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 29, 2013)

*Spoiler*: _Regarding Slate_ 




Just did this segment. I ended up sparing him. I dunno... I know he wanted to die, but I just couldn't bring myself to kill him in cold blood. If I see him suffering later on I will kill him, but he lives for now.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 29, 2013)

you know what i realized about the ending...   
*Spoiler*: __ 



in the post credits scene, thats an atl booker who never sold anna. so the anna and booker that we know didnt stop everything after all. only the versions of events that they witnessed with columbia and comstock. in another world they can be happy together as a family


----------



## Furious George (Mar 29, 2013)

^ Didn't think about that... You seem to have the best grasp of the ending here.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

@Inu - Yeah, basically. That's what I took from it.

I felt that was the one thing that was glaringly obvious. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Didn't the date at that point also say 1913, when the game took place in 1912?


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

Game was way too short; hopefully the DLC will be substantial.  

What happened to meeting some of the other main members of the Vox Populi or politicians of the founders like Stallenstol? I remember seeing him once(won't spoil) and it wasn't very impressive. 

Also fuck the Vox Populi, look at how they fucked up Columbia.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 29, 2013)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Game was way too short



I didn't think so. I was actually surprised at how long it tooke me to beat it.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

There's always one.


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

Furious George said:


> I didn't think so. I was actually surprised at how long it tooke me to beat it.



Well it took me a day and half to beat, I guess the quality makes up for it, I just want more Bioshock really.  3 DLC Packs planned, I really hope it properly explains the heavy hitters and the Songbird, because bar the Siren none of them are really well explained. 



MAJOR SPOILER. 

*Spoiler*: __ 




How will drowning booker in one universe prevent Bookers in other universes' from accepting the baptism? I've seen some explanations, but I'm not convinced. It's annoying not knowing whether both Booker and Comstock's existence is gone or just Comstock's. 




Still can't sleep properly thinking about that ending. Suppose that was what Kev, was going for.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

Did you not watch the after-credits scene?

And someone earlier posted a theory about Songbird and Handymen.


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

Krory said:


> Did you not watch the after-credits scene?
> 
> And someone earlier posted a theory about Songbird and Handymen.



There was an after credits scene? 

Oh shit.....

To be honest the Boys of Silence are the more interesting ones. 

Also Keeeeeeeeeeev , he just couldn't resist putting that one jump scare in the game.


EDIT- Watched the scene, my mind is at ease.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 29, 2013)

what i found most mindnumbing is that


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

We live in a day and age where you should be _more_ surprised if there _isn't_ an after-credits scene.


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

Krory said:


> We live in a day and age where you should be _more_ surprised if there _isn't_ an after-credits scene.



I was way too shocked at the ending so I immediately went to go on the internet for theory's and explanations, surprisingly none of them talked about the after credit scene.

Also it still doesn't explain the 'how' part of my question.


----------



## Magic (Mar 29, 2013)

*How long did it take most of you to beat the game?*


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

RemChu said:


> *How long did it take most of you to beat the game?*



Bought the game on release, (Tuesday)  beat it on Wednesday.


----------



## Magic (Mar 29, 2013)

Awwwwwwwwwww

I understand its a fucking brilliant amazing piece of art and gaming....
but beat in one day?

holy shit =[


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

I would say at the lowest point, around 12 hours for myself.

Though if you just try to blaze through the game, you're not going to have a good time. There's a lot to see and admire and I know I didn't do all of the optional things, and I missed a good deal of the voxophones I believe.

I need to replay on 1999 Mode.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 29, 2013)

13-14 hours is a good length for a shooter


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 29, 2013)

12 hours is my time. its not short


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

RemChu said:


> Awwwwwwwwwww
> 
> I understand its a fucking brilliant amazing piece of art and gaming....
> but beat in one day?
> ...




I'm a super gamer with Korean gold farming like powers so I probably beat it too fast. 
There's DLC coming soon as well. 


Also don't let that put you off you won't regret buying it.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

The most amazing, artistic ambitious, mind-fuckingly great game since... well, since the first _BioShock_.

But yeah, this is not the kind of game you should just play through. That's not what _BioShock_ is about.


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

> I need to replay on 1999 Mode.



Yeah I'm thinking of doing that and using an actual build. 

Sniper+Shock Jockey build sounds good.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Mar 29, 2013)

What vigors did you guys like?

I abused the fuck out of the bucking bronco


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

Bucking Bronco was OP.




No one could stop my levels of faggatory with Bucking Bronco.


Bucking Bronco+Shotgun= Victory.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 29, 2013)

my combo was rpg and return to sender.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 29, 2013)

Charge: because it went well with the melee gears
Murder of Crows: most stylish long range vigor
Return to Sender: cuz I had to at times

I wanna use Undertow more in my second playthrough though..


----------



## Furious George (Mar 29, 2013)

Return to Sender and shotty. 

We had some good times together.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

I liked all of them, really.  I switched it up a lot.

I actually rarely used Return to Sender, though.

I loved knocking guys off of ledges/edges with Bucking Bronco and Undertow.


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

> I wanna use Undertow more in my second playthrough though..




Really helpful with melee gears, especially the shock one.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 29, 2013)

Possession with the Aid mod where you use less Salts was actually pretty cheap... instant suicide for groups of weaker soldiers. 

Its a shame that I didn't buy the mod until way later in the game. Things would have been much easier.


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Possession with the Aid mod where you use less Salts was actually pretty cheap... instant suicide for groups of weaker soldiers.
> 
> Its a shame that I didn't buy the mod until way later in the game. Things would have been much easier.



I hardly doubt it was as cheap  as Bucking Bronco with extended levitation time mod. 

I'm not touching that vigor on my second play through.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Mar 29, 2013)

Used Bucking bronco+machine gun (fully upgraded) for max ownage

Wonder what combo I should go for next


----------



## Stunna (Mar 29, 2013)

Bucking Bronco is life.


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

Someone needs to make a Bucking Bronco FC.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 29, 2013)

I wished I had used Bronco more now.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

I wanted to make like fourteen different _BioShock Infinite_ FCs but my Lara x Sam FC is enough for now.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 29, 2013)

It's a minor detail, but I actually loved the designs of the vigor bottles


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

We need a Bucking Bronco FC, an Elizabeth FC, a, "I Wept Over Songbird" FC, a "BioShock Infinite Made Me Cry/Fucked My Mind" FC, a "Doctor Who Ain't Got Shit On BioShock Infinite" FC...


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

Khris said:


> It's a minor detail, but I actually loved the designs of the vigor bottles



This a million times. They were all so fucking awesome-looking, and I loved watching the scene of unlocking a new vigor. Even the opening sound effect made it seem epic.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 29, 2013)

> a "Doctor Who Ain't Got Shit On BioShock Infinite" FC...


**


----------



## vegitabo (Mar 29, 2013)

shock jockey fully upgrade + carbine + that hat that shocked people randomly when u shoot them

when i think about it, i didn't even use any other vigors after i got it, lol (except to light the torches)


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

It's true. Doctor Who's Timey Wimey shit is a fucking speck of reef in the ocean that is _BioShock Infinite_.


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

I'm English and I say screw that smug bastard Doctor Who, all of them.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 29, 2013)

Shit, I am going to spend a lot on Infinite merch/collectiables


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Mar 29, 2013)

I love sci fi but I could never stand doctor who

mostly because of the fangirls


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 29, 2013)

DUN-DUN. DUN-DUN. DUN-DUN.                         DAT BATTLESONG


----------



## Furious George (Mar 29, 2013)

You know my favorite thing about this game? 

That Bioshock 2 wasn't referenced at all. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Not a poster of Sophia Lamb or a broken Big Sister in sight during the Rapture scene




I know Levine tries to be civil about the whole sequel thing but the actions spek louder than words.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 29, 2013)

Leave Doctor Who out of this.


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

I like how being an ass-hole in general didn't affect my ending. I'm looking at you infamous, and every other game with a morality system out there.

Bioshock 2 was a good game, it just didn't do anything different. from the first one, and had a much weaker plot; It's hard to follow up Bioshock 1.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 29, 2013)

All the Vigors look awesome so far, especially Murder of Crows. I got the MoC keychain from the Ultimate Songbird Edition and immediately switched my keys over. I feel so fucking awesome. 

Right now my favorite Vigor is MoC, it's just so useful. I'll probably try out Bucking Bronco some more. I can already tell that Shock Jockey is gonna be fun (only used it briefly since I just left the Hall of Heroes). 

By the way, how did you guys map the controls, for those who played on PC? I ended up switching melee attacks to the right mouse button and put Vigors on the X button, but I dunno... kinda feels weird.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

Well it's unfair to compare it to inFAMOUS since that's the draw of that game. Morality and its affects. It'd be more unfair if it had affects and didn't tell you but even then I wouldn't mind. Elizabeth alone made me feel bad and second guess anything I did. I stopped doing finishers because of every time she screamed or went "OH MY GOD!" whenever I did. She legitimately made me feel bad.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

@Death - I, admittedly, used my 360 controller. My laptop is not ideal for gaming because of touchpad and all and I don't have a spare mouse right now.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

I don't know why my mind is so hung up on the chalkboard scene in the beginning. I don't know why that surprised me so damn much.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 29, 2013)

heads or tails scene was epic in retrospect


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

Utter fridge brilliance.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 29, 2013)

Will I understand that heads or tails scene as I keep playing? I didn't know if it meant something particularly important at the time.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 29, 2013)

yes, you will in retrospect.

as for fav vigor. Opposed to Bio 1, where I mostly went with shock and bees, this time I was switching around a lot. I did like to use specific vigors with specific weapons though. Like Bronco and Shotgun, Crows and Carbine, Shock and Machine gun etc


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 29, 2013)

heads says you will. tails says no.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

It's more of a realization once you finish.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 29, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKmHsr3f37A[/YOUTUBE]





Inuhanyou said:


> you know what i realized about the ending...
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...





Kirin Thunderclap said:


> MAJOR SPOILER.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



 a, when they enter the baptism scene a second time, Booker comments on how it's the same place again, then Elizabeth says it's not the same. The first time they entered Booker didn't go through with the baptism, meaning this time they're at the waypoint where Booker is going to accept it, thus they only weed out Comstock. But this doesn't explain the other Elizabeth's remark "before the decision is made" and the Elizabeths dissapearance 


b, they might have gone rid of all the Bookers/Comstocks at the baptism, but who said Booker always goes to the baptism? Is that a constant? Maybe there are universes where he just doesn't go there.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 29, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Songbird.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 29, 2013)

It is finished.

And man was it amazing.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Mar 29, 2013)

Stunna said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Songbird.




*Spoiler*: __ 



He scared me at first but then felt really bad for him , I would love to know more about him though, for a while there I thought he was made like a big daddy, skin and organs grafted into a machine (it might still be possible considering he dies in rapture) and the person would be somehow related to elizabeth




The next bioshock should take place in 2013

the city should be underground and of course is inhabited by hipsters who are so deep, you can't even see them anymore


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 29, 2013)

Just one last question about that heads and tails scene; does the decision effect anything? It doesn't matter to me if it really does or not, since I have a feeling that the importance of the scene wasn't in the decision itself.


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 29, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> Just one last question about that heads and tails scene; does the decision effect anything? It doesn't matter to me if it really does or not, since I have a feeling that the importance of the scene wasn't in the decision itself.


I think you should stop posting about it and play the damn game 

Don't worry about "getting" it until the end. Then you can go back and over analyze things.

edit: also there are enough fetch quests and drawn out combat sequences for you to think about things anyway  If you don't come to conclusions by that time then it is likely just something that was meant to be vague, like the coin flip thing.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

From what I understand, no decision really affects anything ultimately. All personal immersion.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

Though yeah, Stumpy got it right.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 29, 2013)

Well I was posting from my phone earlier, unable to play the game. I'm excited to learn more about it but don't want to spoil myself.  

But now I'm home, so back to playing.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 29, 2013)

Krory said:


> From what I understand, no decision really affects anything ultimately. All personal immersion.



*Spoiler*: __ 



That's the genius of it, isn't it? The choices you make don't change your conclusion, but branch off and alter another universe's.


----------



## Jena (Mar 29, 2013)

Finished this the other day. Incredible game.


*Spoiler*: __ 




The ending was fucking fantastic.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 29, 2013)

Wasn't it?


----------



## Slice (Mar 29, 2013)

Dr.Douchebag said:


> What vigors did you guys like?
> 
> I abused the fuck out of the bucking bronco



Fully upgraded Murder of Crows and Possession plus fully upgraded shotgun with the clothes that give you Salt on a kill and electrocute nearby enemies on an overkill.

I didnt even need anything else. Just running around oneshotting everyone.


----------



## Zaru (Mar 29, 2013)

Alright, I finished it after all, managed to get rid of the stutter.

This was one of the best looking games I've ever seen. I don't know how much it cost them but the art direction here is simply amazing. I took several dozen screenshots that all make my jaw drop to the floor.


----------



## Mael (Mar 29, 2013)

Good game...really good game and worth its ratings.

Trippy ending mind you.  It reminded me a LITTLE bit of a certain movie in terms of unanswered ending...but where 2K/Yager had me feeling bad man with lots of philosophical quandaries with SOTL this game had me feeling mystified.

It's like a sliding scale of great endings with differing emotions.
*FEELS GOOD MAN*​*FEELS BAD MAN*​Journey----------Bioshock: Infinte---------Halo 4---------Spec Ops: The Line.


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 29, 2013)

Just blew up the blimp. How far em I away from the ending? I'm enjoying it, but all this talk of a great ending..>I wanna get there!


----------



## Stunna (Mar 29, 2013)

Blew up _the_ blimp? As in just one? You're a few hours, I think.


----------



## Olivia (Mar 29, 2013)

Wow, that ending blew my mind. I wasn't expecting that at all.

However since I broke it up between different days it seemed like the story was shorter than most games. But I've been playing for 3-4 hours per day since Wednesday, so that's like 9-12 hours worth of gameplay?

Anyways a really great game, wasn't expecting it to be this good at all.


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 29, 2013)

There's more? Damn...I didn't love doing that, but love most of the other sections. I really like fighting the different enemies types with the exception of the crow fuckers. 

I like Bookers and El's relationship but I think they could build on it more. hopefully last few hours it will.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 29, 2013)

Yeah, took us about 10 hours, I think. Feels like a good length for this kind of game. That's excluding exploration, etc, of course.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 29, 2013)

Stunna said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Songbird.




*Spoiler*: __ 







just realized in my second playthrough, that when i was looking at Elizabeth from the surveillance rooms.. the room with the Eiffel Tower painting had drawings of songbird


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 29, 2013)

crazymtf said:


> There's more? Damn...I didn't love doing that, but love most of the other sections. I really like fighting the different enemies types with the exception of the crow fuckers.
> 
> I like Bookers and El's relationship but I think they could build on it more. hopefully last few hours it will.



The crow guys are easy with Shock Jockey.


----------



## axellover2 (Mar 29, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Maybe its just me, but after all is said and done am I suppose to assume that Booker is just a terrible person regardless of it hes baptized or not?


----------



## Stunna (Mar 29, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Uh,             no?


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

Lord Yu said:


> The crow guys are easy with Shock Jockey.



Or Bucking Bronco.

Or Devil's Kiss.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 29, 2013)

Crow guys are easy in general. Shotgun to da face.


----------



## axellover2 (Mar 29, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I guess I'm just having a hard time thinking highly of the guy giving away his kid. Or trying to better understand how he became an evil racist in some parts, but not others.


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 29, 2013)

axellover2 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe its just me, but after all is said and done am I suppose to assume that Booker is just a terrible person regardless of it hes baptized or not?



*Spoiler*: __ 



Well, the Booker we play as did a few things in his life that he regrets doing. He is flawed at the least.




I'm not really sure where this telescope was, but Irrational level designer extraordinaire shared it on Twitter for some reason


----------



## Zaru (Mar 29, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> Crow guys are easy in general. Shotgun to da face.



Every enemy can be easy. The problems start when there's a dozen other enemies shooting at you at the same time.

I've had moments where there was literally no way to avoid damage. Melee sucks balls after the first parts of the game since you automatically take damage from SOMETHING. That game design fault could be remedied by using a lot of different vigors which isn't possible because you simply don't get enough salts (and I nearly maxed out that capacity)
I'd have preferred for vigor energy to be auto-regenerating, to be honest. Why put all these unique abilities into the game only to severely limit their usage and force the player to run around for blue bottles?


----------



## Stunna (Mar 29, 2013)

axellover2 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I'm just having a hard time thinking highly of the guy giving away his kid. Or trying to better understand how he became an evil racist in some parts, but not others.



*Spoiler*: __ 



Dick move, yeah, but look at it this way: if he didn't pay back his debt, he'd be killed, and his kid would be taken regardless. He has a change of heart and goes back for her too.


----------



## axellover2 (Mar 29, 2013)

Stunna said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Dick move, yeah, but look at it this way: if he didn't pay back his debt, he'd be killed, and his kid would be taken regardless. He has a change of heart and goes back for her too.




*Spoiler*: __ 



That's true. My mind is probably still just full of what after that ending. I think I still want some explanation on what caused that major shift from potentially depressed dude to religious extremist. Bring on the DLC!!!!


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

I wish there were more sections where the skyline fighting was feasible. The area before the Comstock House where it's all just circular was so much fucking fun, jumping off onto guys, punching another in the face with the skyhook. Shooting their legs out from under them, sicking a bunch of crows on them then fleeeeeeeee onto the skyline.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 29, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Every enemy can be easy. The problems start when there's a dozen other enemies shooting at you at the same time.
> 
> I've had moments where there was literally no way to avoid damage. Melee sucks balls after the first parts of the game since you automatically take damage from SOMETHING. That game design fault could be remedied by using a lot of different vigors which isn't possible because you simply don't get enough salts (and I nearly maxed out that capacity)
> I'd have preferred for vigor energy to be auto-regenerating, to be honest. Why put all these unique abilities into the game only to severely limit their usage and force the player to run around for blue bottles?



I've had those moments, especially when...


*Spoiler*: __ 



I was trying to get into the Shantytown police compound, when there's tons of enemies as well as those "gatling" turrets that fire mortars at you constantly. I would've died if it weren't for the skylines.




I've been pretty "lucky" so far; the Crows usually charge me long before other enemies reach me, so they're usually dead by the time enough other enemies arrive on the scene to shoot the hell out of me.

Murder of Crows has been extremely useful for distracting other enemies in order to focus on others, and is even more useful after buying the upgrade which turns MoC victims into Crow Traps if they die while still being attacked by crows. 

I haven't had much of a problem stocking up on salts since I constantly loot every container and eat everything I find.  The few times I've completely run out Elizabeth comes out of nowhere and throws me a blue bottle.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 29, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Every enemy can be easy. The problems start when there's a dozen other enemies shooting at you at the same time.
> 
> I've had moments where there was literally no way to avoid damage. Melee sucks balls after the first parts of the game since you automatically take damage from SOMETHING. That game design fault could be remedied by using a lot of different vigors which isn't possible because you simply don't get enough salts (and I nearly maxed out that capacity)
> I'd have preferred for vigor energy to be auto-regenerating, to be honest. Why put all these unique abilities into the game only to severely limit their usage and force the player to run around for blue bottles?



That made me really conservative about my vigors. I only used them when big enemies came out or large groups of enemies hassled me.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 29, 2013)

Elizabeth.


----------



## Tash (Mar 29, 2013)

Waited the whole fucking game


*Spoiler*: __ 



for them to pull that staple bioshock "you turn around and the enemy has been staring right behind you" thing. Literally right as I was turning around in the warden's office I was like "is this gonna be it"? Still spooked the hell out of me.




I remember the devs talking about how you had to sneak around the boys of silence but I didn't really see how that was plausible at all on my playthrough.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

I must have the most handy Elizabeth because she always keeps me stocked on exactly what I need.  Always quite fortunate. And it gets easier when she's able to pull stuff through tears. The part that really gave me trouble for some reason...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Was the end, when you have Songbird's help to pull down the zeppelins and such.




Though I didn't actually _fail_ that part but I did come pretty damn close.


----------



## Krory (Mar 29, 2013)

Tash said:


> Waited the whole fucking game
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



It is entirely possible. I only messed up one because my finger hit a trigger by mistake and shot my gun.  So it was like, "Well fuck." There are boxes and pillars to hide behind. Just have to time to avoid their light.


----------



## Tash (Mar 29, 2013)

hmm

Do you have to fight them when you make your way back down though?

I tried to sneak past the 1st one but got caught. So from that point on I was just said fuck it, come at me and my crows, bros.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 29, 2013)

axellover2 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. My mind is probably still just full of what after that ending. I think I still want some explanation on what caused that major shift from potentially depressed dude to religious extremist. Bring on the DLC!!!!




*Spoiler*: __ 



The baptism represents not absolution but consumption. If Booker had accepted baptism his religious zeal would have turned his sins into virtues.  Thats what I took from it. By rejecting an easy out he kept his sins on his shoulders and did not try to make the world his sin.  A kind of anti religious sentiment but it's my interpretation. It might change when I play the game again.


----------



## Agmaster (Mar 29, 2013)

Just got Elizabeth out of the bay.  Man, these people are ready for war.  Still, I wonder what the swerve is going to be.  I mean....I guess they don't troll you for killing nazis, so why not?  Either way, I'm digging it and Liz is pretty cool and dont afraid of much.  A nice light social commentary meal mixed with metal gear rising.


----------



## Jena (Mar 29, 2013)

axellover2 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. My mind is probably still just full of what after that ending. I think I still want some explanation on what caused that major shift from potentially depressed dude to religious extremist. Bring on the DLC!!!!





Lord Yu said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> The baptism represents not absolution but consumption. If Booker had accepted baptism his religious zeal would have turned his sins into virtues.  Thats what I took from it. By rejecting an easy out he kept his sins on his shoulders and did not try to make the world his sin.  A kind of anti religious sentiment but it's my interpretation. It might change when I play the game again.




*Spoiler*: __ 




Exactly. 

Comstock and Booker share some fundamental similarities, it's just how they handle them that differ. 

This is rambly, so I apologize, but....

Both Booker and Comstock are self-centered, but in different ways. Although his motivations change as the game goes on, initially Booker only wanted to save Elizabeth to clear his own debt and he treated her like...well...kind of a dick. And even though he tried to undo it, he also gave up his daughter to fix his debts. Comstock, likewise, is self-centered (although he is more self-important than Booker is). Comstock and Booker are both aware of the darker side of humanity, but their approaches/outlooks differ. Booker acknowledges that horrible things happen and that he's done horrible things, but he shoulders his actions while (more or less) not interfering with other people's choices. He's ambivalent about the looming civil war and remarks that Fitzroy and Fink/Comstock are equal. He only interferes to save Elizabeth because he develops an emotional connection to her. Comstock, meanwhile, takes the opposite approach. Instead of shouldering his own choices, he believes that humanity is fundamentally flawed and that everyone should be struck down because, by nature of being human, they will do bad things. 

Also I forget who said this and I don't feel like digging, but IIRC someone in this thread questioned why Comstock was racist when Booker seemingly wasn't. If Comstock had to believe that he was absolved of his sin because he was baptized, it's not too much of a stretch to think that he also became more of a racist to justify his actions at Wounded Knee.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Booker comes across as someone like Walker from _Spec Ops: The Line_ and James Sunderlund from _Silent Hill 2_. It feels like I _should_ care about him, that I should feel bad for him, lament his decisions no matter how deplorable. And yet, Booker is the only one I actively feel this for out of those three. Walker and James are both interesting in their psychosis, but Booker is the only one I legitimately feel for. I mean, maybe it's because Booker's deluded guilt drove him to _make up_ for it instead of just dwelling on it or digging himself deeper? Even though the Luteces sort of oiled the gears. And told them where to go... that stuff...

Regardless... I mean... that has to mean something, doesn't it? As John Carver said in _Dead Space 3_, that's close enough to for all of this count, right? Maybe I'm just thinking too much about things... I can't tell if I'm stating the obvious or thinking about it too much.




I think I need a hug just thinking about it again.

I want to join the others in _BioShock Infinite_ sets, too... but nah. I must support my OTP.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

*Random thought:* I like how the Patriots go from Washington robots to Lincoln robots after a certain turn in the plot. Funny, yet profound symbolism right there. 

Its been 2 days since I beat this and its all I've been thinking about. I can't get it out from me. I wanna go back to Columbia.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 30, 2013)

Me too. I need to own this game.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 30, 2013)

Everything feels like it's coming together, yet I feel like I still know so little.

13 hours in, right now I'm...


*Spoiler*: __ 



In the Emporia District. I need to find the three tears that will bring Lady Comstock to reason so she can open up the gate to Comstock House.




I have no idea how close I am to the end. I consider that a good thing.  I've been scouring and exploring like a mofo. Aside from that one optional objective in the very beginning, I've done all of the optional objectives and have picked every single lock... as far as I know.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> Everything feels like it's coming together, yet I feel like I still know so little.
> 
> 13 hours in, right now I'm...
> 
> ...



Good. Keep looking because unlike most games the optional stuff is surprisingly easy to miss. 

And don't worry too much about "knowing" stuff at your point in the game. In all likelihood you won't even be 100% sure of what you know by the end anyway.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 30, 2013)

I am already beginning to feel the feels. 

I also backtrack heavily as well when it's available, because I'm never sure if I'll be able to go back or not. I haven't counted how many Voxaphones I've gotten so far, but I've picked up quite a lot.  I bet I'll probably end up missing a few regardless. 

Also, I finally got the shotgun back.  Elizabeth threw me a different gun earlier and it switched out my shotgun and I never got it back.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



My reaction when you get to the multitude of lighthouses... and then you start seeing other Elizabeths and Bookers:


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> Also, I finally got the shotgun back.  Elizabeth threw me a different gun earlier and it switched out my shotgun and I never got it back.



That's strange. I've only ever had that happen once - when you are first introduced to the sniper rifle.  Every other time she's always thrown me one of the two weapons I already had, whichever I had equipped and low on ammo.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> My reaction when you get to the multitude of lighthouses... and then you start seeing other Elizabeths and Bookers:



*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oALxLNOhI6I[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> That's strange. I've only ever had that happen once - when you are first introduced to the sniper rifle.  Every other time she's always thrown me one of the two weapons I already had, whichever I had equipped and low on ammo.



It was the weirdest thing.  I thought she was gonna throw me some shotty ammo, but then I end up getting a carbine instead and I'm like "dafuq is this!?" and then I look on the floor and my shotgun is nowhere to be seen.  

So I had to roll with a carbine/sniper rifle combo for a while.


----------



## Patchouli (Mar 30, 2013)

Just wasted so much money buying a shit-ton of games, this one being one of them.

Haven't played it yet though. Too busy with the Mass Effect games. But once I'm done with them, this is next on my list. :33


----------



## Stunna (Mar 30, 2013)

If you got BioShock Infinite, it's no waste. 

Which Mass Effect game are you on?


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Carbine is one of the best weapons, anyway.

I usually used a shotty along with a carbine or pistol.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

Carbine was raw. 

Hated Repeater and Burstgun.


----------



## Patchouli (Mar 30, 2013)

Stunna said:


> If you got BioShock Infinite, it's no waste.
> 
> Which Mass Effect game are you on?



I just beat Mass Effect 1 today as femshep Vanguard on veteran difficulty. Planning on starting ME2 today or tomorrow. 

Also, was wondering a bit. Does it matter if I've played Bioshock before? I've never played any of the Bioshock games before this. Am I going to be missing out on story stuff?


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Yeah, the Heater was fucking bollocks.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Patchouli, there will be some nods that go over the head but overall it'll still be an amazing experience. But you should still play BioShock regardless since that was an equally amazing game.


----------



## Patchouli (Mar 30, 2013)

Buying that now too. Because food money is overrated.


----------



## Patchouli (Mar 30, 2013)

Where? How?!


----------



## Stunna (Mar 30, 2013)

It says so on the box. Is that a PS3-exclusive thing?


----------



## Patchouli (Mar 30, 2013)

I guess it's not for me. Aussie PC gamer here.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 30, 2013)

I wish I owned the family PS3.


----------



## Jena (Mar 30, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> Also, was wondering a bit. Does it matter if I've played Bioshock before? I've never played any of the Bioshock games before this. Am I going to be missing out on story stuff?



No, you don't need to be familiar with the other games. You'll just miss out on some references.


----------



## Patchouli (Mar 30, 2013)

Going to hold off on buying the old game for now. Will play this first, then buy the old ones. I'm sure those references will blow my mind later on down the line.


----------



## Oceania (Mar 30, 2013)

soooo don't tell me what happens but is it worth spending 60 bucks on it?


----------



## Stunna (Mar 30, 2013)

YES.

DO IT NOW.


----------



## Olivia (Mar 30, 2013)

I got Bioshock 2 over the summer last year, but never finished it. Decided to pre-order Bioshock Infinite over PSN and I got Bioshock for free. Haven't played Bioshock yet though. (Yes, I'm in North America)

*@Forerunner: *If this isn't, I don't know what else is. Well, maybe except Tomb Raider, as that was also a pretty good game, but still.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 30, 2013)

_Tomb Raider_ was great 'n all, but _BioShock Infinite_ curbstomps it.


----------



## axellover2 (Mar 30, 2013)

I don't think I would want to play Tomb Raider again, but I think this is worth a second play through.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 30, 2013)

bioinf is imo worth 120 bucks.     the game is a masterpiece


----------



## Olivia (Mar 30, 2013)

Stunna said:


> _Tomb Raider_ was great 'n all, but _BioShock Infinite_ curbstomps it.



I whole heartily agree with this statement. If there were any other game you were to spend money on then it'd be Tomb Raider, granted, I've liked BioShock Infinite a lot more than I liked Tomb Raider (and I _really_ enjoyed Tomb Raider). 

Basically, just buy BioShock Infinite, and if you have some extra cash, then you can buy Tomb Raider, is what I was trying to say.


----------



## Oceania (Mar 30, 2013)

I will........ once I get paid tomorrow!!!! played bioshock 2 and loved it.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 30, 2013)

u know how if you put 2 mirrors facing each other and you get that far out image of everything 
going on forever? this game is that


----------



## Stunna (Mar 30, 2013)

Did you never play the first one? I personally skipped the second because I heard it sucked.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 30, 2013)

it did. compared to 1 and inf anyway. you def feel kens absence in the presentation


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

I have this weird relationship between BioInf and Tomb Raider. I _know_ BioInf is superior in... every quality. Absolutely _every_ quality. But I still feel myself attracted to TR more.  I think it's easier for me to have some fun in TR but BioInf is that monumental, life-changing experience that can only happen once.

Though I'm probably mostly bias because I found my new OTP in TR. But yeah... I would tell people to get BioInf over TR regardless.


----------



## Jena (Mar 30, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> it did. compared to 1 and inf anyway. you def feel kens absence in the presentation



Definitely agree with this. Love the first game, hated the second, loved the third. I actually think that I like this one more than the first one. First one is a good game, but Infinite was an excellent game.


----------



## axellover2 (Mar 30, 2013)

So .....

*Spoiler*: __ 




Before the post credits scene I assumed that Elz. and Booker would cease to exist, but from the post credits either the loop restarted or they live a happy life together. Endings like this and Inception bother me cause I feel like I have to know


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 30, 2013)

Stunna said:


> Did you never play the first one? I personally skipped the second because I heard it sucked.



dat cosplayer in your set nailed it


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Khris said:


> dat cosplayer in your set nailed it



I would hope so... she _*IS*_ Elizabeth, dude.

She did the face-capture.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Jena said:


> Definitely agree with this. Love the first game, hated the second, loved the third. I actually think that I like this one more than the first one. First one is a good game, but Infinite was an excellent game.



The first had that one or two really great twists that could leave you guffawed (and even if you called them, the scenes - particularly Andrew Ryan's - were extremely powerful)...  it stands as one of those, "Man, that was really awesome and everyone should play it." kind of games and experiences. _BioShock Infinite_, on the other hand... it had the same kind of situation with those twists that, even if you called them, still have a supremely strong impact. Just so many emotions and sudden realizations and things you pick up on your second time through to really process fully. All the little easter eggs, even as simple as the renditions of more modern music.

I could put into words better why someone should play the first game, but for _Infinite_ it comes down more to, "Really. Just play the game. You have to. You don't have a choice in the matter."

And yeah... the second felt fledgling in nearly every aspect although I still stand by that I liked Eleanor Lamb, even if her transformation was a carbon copy of what Jack went through in the first game.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> I would hope so... she _*IS*_ Elizabeth, dude.
> 
> She did the face-capture.



whut? 

news to me


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Khris said:


> whut?
> 
> news to me



She's a Russian (I think it was Russian...) cosplayer... those cosplays were before it happened (she has a LOT of good stuff - she has an amazing Alice from American McGee's series and she did the Arkham series Poison Ivy). She had cosplayed as Elizabeth (and stated her frustration because they kept changing the design). Ken Levine saw it, loved it, and sent her an e-mail, told her they had a surprise for her if she's interested.

If you can hunt down the IGN "Creating Elizabeth" trailer she talks about it briefly. They sat her down and used her for facial-capture for the character. Had her go through making all the different facial expressions and capturing them for the character. So yeah. She _is_ Elizabeth. Of course, Courtnee Draper did the voice and there was a different person for the motion capture, but... yeah.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Anna Moleva is her name and yeah, she's Russian.

. She also has one of her as Empress Jessamine from _Dishonored_. All of her cosplays are really amazing. She's also done FemShep (default), old-style Ellie Langford from _Dead Space 2_, Elika from the _Prince of Persia_ reboot, and Wonder Woman.


----------



## Burke (Mar 30, 2013)

Ah, truly an amazing game. Whats weird is that, as awesome as it was, i still find myself missing what was in the early trailers. When Booker walks out into an odd Columbia where signs are glitching, a woman is sweeping the deck of a burning building, the bell tower falls right in front of him, that was so cool. The "dont let him take me back" moment when it was in the general store place, i loved the scenery much more then. That moment in the trailer where she tries to save a dead horse, or that original handyman battle where the songbird shows up at the end. For some reason all of those just look so much cooler.


*Spoiler*: __ 



At anyrate, dat ending man. I figured when it was revealed she wasnt the daughter of lady comstock or leteuce that she was bookers elseworld daughter. But damn, that lighthouse reveal. Im guessing the leteuces figured a way to travel the multiverse unshackled much like the power they gave elizabeth. Awesome game.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

@Burke...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Rosalind Lutece speaks of trying to take her brother from another universe/reality, so yes, they must have had the ability. It would explain a lot, as well. How much they know, how they keep appearing and disappearing everywhere. Things of that nature.

My particular favorite was when they were digging their own graves, you look away for a second and they are gone. Though that's also when they recite perhaps my favorite line in the game: "Lives, lived, will live." "Dies, died, will die."


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> Anna Moleva is her name and yeah, she's Russian.
> 
> . She also has one of her as Empress Jessamine from _Dishonored_. All of her cosplays are really amazing. She's also done FemShep (default), old-style Ellie Langford from _Dead Space 2_, Elika from the _Prince of Persia_ reboot, and Wonder Woman.




*Spoiler*: __ 








She is GOOD , I can stare into dem blue eyes forever pek

Thanx bro..


----------



## Burke (Mar 30, 2013)

Above all, my biggest problem was that i needed more blue skies. All we saw in the trailers were the amazing skyline with just blue everywhere, but the majority of the game is either dusk, or full of smoke clouds of war.



Krory said:


> @Burke...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



My favorite part was the chalkboard. Booker has flipped that coin hundreds of times and it always landed on heads.




also what the fucking fuck is songbird.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 30, 2013)

Whut now?


----------



## Burke (Mar 30, 2013)

Khris said:


> Whut now?




*Spoiler*: __ 



i mean like what is it
the game offered no inkling of an explanation


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Mar 30, 2013)

Just one question though

*Spoiler*: __ 



 How is elizabeth able to time travel? I understand that the tears lead to alternate dimensions but when songbird captures her and they run experiments on her dr pettigrew says its been 6 months, an older elizabeth pulls you up to see 1984 new york then in the ending you get to see 1960 rapture and twice you go right at the start of the game and then of course at the end to your baptism. I'm just confused because she never mentioned anything about travelling through time


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Dr.Douchebag said:


> Just one question though
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm trying to imagine that maybe ever moment in time where a different could have been made, where something could have changed, exists as a different "dimension." These are all doorways, all tears. They are all open to Elizabeth and feasibly the Luteces as well. It's just something that is.




Also...

>That feeling when you find out Rosalind Lutece is voiced by FemShep


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Mar 30, 2013)

I guess so krory

Jennifer Hale voiced Rosalind Lutece , damn


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Yeah. Just found that out.

As if I didn't already fucking love Hale and Rosalind Lutece enough as it is.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 30, 2013)

St. Burke said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Yeah, I dunno what it *IS* either


Maybe that's what the DLC is for


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

I think I need to make a Lutece FC now.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> I think I need to make a Lutece FC now.



Just make a Bioshock Infinite FC dude


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

I specialize in specialized things.


----------



## Burke (Mar 30, 2013)

is hales voice ever not obvious 
shes the steve blum of the ladies


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> I specialize in specialized things.



Then call me when you make a Songbird FC


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Songbird is on you, broseph.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

St. Burke said:


> is hales voice ever not obvious
> shes the steve blum of the ladies



I would say Nolan North is more obvious and recognizable than Blum now.

Probably because every voice role except The Penguin in _Arkham City_, Nolan North is just playing Nolan North.


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 30, 2013)

I'm joining any Bioshock FC, as long as it's Bioshock.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Mar 30, 2013)

Khris said:


> Just make a Bioshock Infinite FC dude



Make, made, will make


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> Songbird is on you, broseph.





Kirin Thunderclap said:


> I'm joining any Bioshock FC, as long as it's Bioshock.



No point in making multiple ones then  

And really, this thread is already like an FC.. 


We just have to make it official


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 30, 2013)

Elizabeth: How did they know you were coming?
Booker: I hear they got a prophet on their side.
Elizabeth: Har Har 



How can you not love Elizabeth


----------



## Slice (Mar 30, 2013)

There were parts of the game when i used more Vigors than guns, especially near the end when you are encouraged to sneak past these enemies  because there is so little ammo. Just equip the pants that regenerate Salt on a kill and max out your Vigor bar and you can do this all day long.

And songbird:


*Spoiler*: __ 



is strongly implied to be a modified low pressure version of the Big Daddy that Fink saw through tears.


----------



## Zaru (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> Carbine is one of the best weapons, anyway.
> 
> I usually used a shotty along with a carbine or pistol.



Shotty is awesome. The impact just feels so right.

As far as vigors go, I really used the hell out of possession since it works on everything aside from handymen.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 30, 2013)

For those thinking about using Undertow more, its best use is when you board enemy ships. fast and clean


*Spoiler*: _been thinking about this_ 



 whenever I die without Elizabeth being around, I continue as an alt Booker from a diff universe? 

and yeah, as the first Bio had this meta commentary about player agency and choice, this takes it further and can be interpreted as players all around the world having different experiences on their journey, but ultimately having the same end.


----------



## Zaru (Mar 30, 2013)

Oh yeah I loved undertow in levels where enemies could fall, basically one-shots any enemy that isn't "special"

Also I just realized you can supposedly sneak around the boys of silence.


----------



## EJ (Mar 30, 2013)

Can someone type me up a review?


----------



## Stunna (Mar 30, 2013)

St. Burke said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's a voxophone that explains.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Mar 30, 2013)

Flow said:


> Can someone type me up a review?



Buy this game. Now.


----------



## Burke (Mar 30, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



One of my favorite things is the songs that were pulled through the holes and remade.

And isnt it cool how your choices dont matter in this game? Like before your choices changed the whole ending, but its almost as if now the message is that no matter what choice you make the same ending always occurs... oh wait  it doesnt matter who you hit the ball with because your hand will always be stopped, it doesnt matter if you choose heads or tails because it will always be heads, it doesnt matter if you spare slate because he will always die/have died/will die.








Slice said:


> And songbird:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



shit i guess i missed that one :v

two more questions, why did that lady call Elizabeth Anna? and who or what was the archangel? was comstock really just crazy or did it have a scientific 'explanation' like everything else?


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

*Spoiler*: _^_ 



Because Elizabeth is Anna DeWitt, Booker's daughter...


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 30, 2013)

Things just keep getting more awesome, my brain is gonna explode! 

Unfortunately I have to do this weird thing called work today, so I won't be able to play for the next 10 hours. 

The world is cruel indeed.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)




----------



## Agmaster (Mar 30, 2013)

So...I tried to toss the ball at the couple early on. :comeatme


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> The first had that one or two really great twists that could leave you guffawed (and even if you called them, the scenes - particularly Andrew Ryan's - were extremely powerful)...  it stands as one of those, "Man, that was really awesome and everyone should play it." kind of games and experiences. _BioShock Infinite_, on the other hand... it had the same kind of situation with those twists that, even if you called them, still have a supremely strong impact. Just so many emotions and sudden realizations and things you pick up on your second time through to really process fully. All the little easter eggs, even as simple as the renditions of more modern music.
> 
> I could put into words better why someone should play the first game, but for _Infinite_ it comes down more to, "Really. Just play the game. You have to. You don't have a choice in the matter."



Comparing Bioshock Infinite to Bioshock 1 is incredibly hard for me. Both of them are masterpieces and must-plays... and if you do happen to like one much better than the other in a "its not even close" deal, your reasons are probably very personal and comes down to world preference (preferring the insanity of Rapture to the idealized beauty of Columbia.). 

I think the easiest way to separate them without paragraphs of detail is simply that *with Bioshock Infinite I immediately wanted to play the game again after I beat.. whereas with Bioshock 1 I didn't even think of picking it up again for like a year later.* I think the improvement in combat mechanics is most responsible for this. Bioshock was a great experience mostly in spite of its so-so fights. Bioshock Infinite is a great experience in large part because the combat set pieces are insanely fun.

But if you want to compare Plot to plot, character to character, twist to twist, world-building to world-building, dialogue to dialogue (in other words if you want to compare the original and Infinite by the things that matter in a Bioshock game)... well, good luck. 



Flow said:


> Can someone type me up a review?



Its hard to type up a review for this game because the basic review structure (graphics, gameplay, presentation) really don't do the genius of this game any justice.

It comes to me that the more artistic merit a game has going for it (Journey, Braid, etc.) the harder it is to "sum up" on good and bad terms as though it were a product. Consider Infinite the cream of the crop in that regard.

But I am trying to type a review.  For now, just... play the game.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 30, 2013)

So I was replaying the game. Played through the intro sections. I'm two or three hours into my new game. I turn the system off for breakfast. Then when I come back, it loads up the ending. My fucking Xbox's calendar reset itself. Did I just get trolled by Elizabeth?


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Elizabeth done fucked with your head, Yu.

@Jorge - Yeah, that's basically how I felt with _Infinite_. I wanted to play it again. I _didn't_ yet but... I wanted to, which is a massive difference from _BioShock_.

I still need/want to do a review but I'm not sure I'm ready.


----------



## Burke (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> *Spoiler*: _^_
> 
> 
> 
> Because Elizabeth is Anna DeWitt, Booker's daughter...




*Spoiler*: __ 



well obviously you big dummy, i just mean why did that random woman on the street call her anna


----------



## Alicia (Mar 30, 2013)

Almost, almost got this game... was looking around at my local game shop and saw it in the shelves.... but ultimately decided not to because I've already almost entirely emptied my bank balance this month.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 30, 2013)

esther called liz that by order of comstock. he probably told his soldiers to ask supicious persons that. she was tailing them and neeeded verification. notice how esther did not attack on sight...it was a trap at the ticket booth.


----------



## Burke (Mar 30, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Ok so what were supposed to believe is that the loan sharks for the Booker we played as never existed and that he went to Columbia on his own accord because he was having trans dimensional memories? Wait no, it was the letuces that sent him there again... wait so what was their reason for sending him to rescue liz?

Also what was with the lighthouse in the beginning? Who owned it? who was the dead man?

Also why did alot of voices have demonic voices underlying behind them?


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 30, 2013)

Daftvirgin said:


> Almost, almost got this game... was looking around at my local game shop and saw it in the shelves.... but ultimately decided not to because I've already almost entirely emptied my bank balance this month.



Sell some games. I got the game by trading my old PS3.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I interpreted it as guilt. The Luteces were responsible for what happened to Anna in the first place. Robert went to retrieve her, he helped Comstock take her. Rosalind played a part, opening the tears and bringing them through. I imagine after everything was said and done, they felt remorse for what their hands had done to help Comstock and instead sought to try and help Booker throughout the multiverse so he can either get Anna back or to stop it from ever occurring like he did.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

St. Burke said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...





*Spoiler*: __ 



1). What Krory said. 

2). What was the lighthouse in the beginning? Not sure I get the question. The Lighthouse just "is"... like all the other worlds in the multiverse. They don't have a real explanation. The dead man was just some random Lighthouse supervisor guy. Who killed him is probably the better question.

3). Because its a video game and demonic voices are awesome? 

If you want a more technical explanation than that, it might have something to do with Booker's perception of certain key people in his life (namely, Comstock himself). We know that world-jumping has a diminishing effect on the person, causes nosebleed and hallucinations, memories are garbled, etc. The double-layered voices might just be in Booker's head.


----------



## Mael (Mar 30, 2013)

Voices in the head or "in your head" typically make for good games Ded Spess 2 e.g.  

In regards to Bioshock 1 and comparison with Infinite, the former had more of that gut punch dialogue with grimdark while Infinite was more like a finely-tuned script.

After all, a man chooses, a slave obeys.


----------



## Jena (Mar 30, 2013)

St. Burke said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but I actually did like that about this game.



St. Burke said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



There's a voxophone in the game that explains that the woman has been told of the false Shepard and Annabelle/Elizabeth and is looking for them.

We don't know for sure, but there's a theory that suggests that the archangel is actually Elizabeth. 

Open to interpretation on whether or not he was crazy or just an extreme zealot/megalomanic


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 30, 2013)

liz has powers decribed as space time. so what she can do is not limited by time or space.


----------



## Mael (Mar 30, 2013)

St. Burke said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> And isnt it cool how your choices dont matter in this game? Like before your choices changed the whole ending, but its almost as if now the message is that no matter what choice you make the same ending always occurs... oh wait  it doesnt matter who you hit the ball with because your hand will always be stopped, it doesnt matter if you choose heads or tails because it will always be heads, it doesnt matter if you spare slate because he will always die/have died/will die.



Welcome to how 2K and their respective producers have been doing these sorts of games for several years now.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Except in the last two _BioShock_ games.


----------



## Mael (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> Except in the last two _BioShock_ games.



I was kinda being sarcastic there since there is technically "choice."

Bioshock 2, Bioshock Infinite, and Spec Ops...all 2K and all deluding folks like St. Burke that "you never had a choice."


----------



## Jena (Mar 30, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Also, _please_. I love the first Bioshock game but the morality system/different endings were hardly complex. It basically just boils down to: kill little sisters = be bad; don't kill them = be good. You could do whatever the hell else you wanted to in the rest of the game, it was only that choice that impacted the ending.


----------



## Mael (Mar 30, 2013)

Jena said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Also, _please_. I love the first Bioshock game but the morality system/different endings were hardly complex. It basically just boils down to: kill little sisters = be bad; don't kill them = be good. You could do whatever the hell else you wanted to in the rest of the game, it was only that choice that impacted the ending.



Again Jena that's the sorta scheme that 2K and producers have figured out.  People always think they're forced but lo the choice aspect keeps popping up and certainly in a better way than anything EA could churn out.  Ain't no form of choice in Dead Space.


----------



## Burke (Mar 30, 2013)

I figured it out, the bioshock infinite we saw from the trailers with shit we didnt see in the game is actually alternate dimensions of things that could have happened :v


----------



## Mael (Mar 30, 2013)

It's basically the stand Made In Heaven in video game manifest.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Jena said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Also, _please_. I love the first Bioshock game but the morality system/different endings were hardly complex. It basically just boils down to: kill little sisters = be bad; don't kill them = be good. You could do whatever the hell else you wanted to in the rest of the game, it was only that choice that impacted the ending.



If I recall, that was really the only _choice_ to make though, right? Same with _BioShock 2_.

Though let's be realistic, no one cares about _BioShock 2_.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 30, 2013)

I'm still not sure which I prefer between Rapture and Columbia. I love the former's atmosphere and the fear it instilled in me, and the premise of a horror game underwater evokes the same feeling that one gets while watching _Alien_--except in _BioShock's_ case, it's "In the sea no one can hear you scream". But on a purely visual level I prefer Columbia's art design.


----------



## Mael (Mar 30, 2013)

Stunna said:


> I'm still not sure which I prefer between Rapture and Columbia. I love the former's atmosphere and the fear it instilled in me, and the premise of a horror game underwater evokes the same feeling that one gets while watching _Alien_--except in _BioShock's_ case, it's "In the sea no one can hear you scream". But on a purely visual level I prefer Columbia's art design.



I'm a fan of the grimdark so I'll have to prefer Rapture.

Plus it was a massive fuck you to libertarians and Ayn Rand. 

Aesthetically by beauty Columbia wins but again look at the environments.  Paradise isn't often found in the depths.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

Stunna said:


> ]--except in _BioShock's_ case, it's "In the sea no one can hear you scream".





Stunna, you probably thought this was a Duke thing to say but it really was a Dimwit thing. 

Remember boys and girls, don't be a Dimwit!


----------



## Stunna (Mar 30, 2013)

Why do I always have to be a Dimwit.


----------



## Mael (Mar 30, 2013)

In space no one can hear you CLEEEEEEEEEEEEAN!

/Bro Team


----------



## "Shion" (Mar 30, 2013)

I wanna play this.


----------



## TylerDurden (Mar 30, 2013)

i was looking for this game just now. It wasn't there. it hadn't arrived at my local gamestore. Though my mind and body were so ready...


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

So I actually just got _BioShock Infinite_ legit as a birthday gift.  Yay, now to play it again (and with my nifty _Tomb Raider_ controller this time).


----------



## Alicia (Mar 30, 2013)

What, you were playing a pirated version on PC?


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Hush, don't judge.

First thing I did: Switch to the other/alternate cover. 

Also, my brother told me that had a special that can extend to the 9th as long as I bring in my receipt - for another twenty bucks, you can get both the strategy guide and the season pass.

And my grandmother gave me twenty bucks for my birthday.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 30, 2013)

I wish I had a PC so I could play pirated games.


----------



## Mael (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory confirmed for beta economy-wrecker.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

Mael said:


> Plus it was a massive fuck you to libertarians and Ayn Rand.



You really think so? I would personally like to think it was too because I am no lover of Objectivism, but I'm not sure that was the point of Bioshock... nor do I think Infinite is a massive fuck you to religion. 

Bioshock to me was more against the idea of any Utopia at all. The Ayn Rand stuff was an effective plot vehicle mainly because it was an extreme view and one that is off-putting to most people. No matter what ideology they upheld or how many other outside influences they tried to shut out (Government, Church) there is always going to be someone to sneak up and exploit the system with the result of ruining "Paradise"... in this case, Fontaine. You can't shut out human nature. 

Bioshock Infinite echoes a lot of the same stuff but only with crazed Nationalism and xenophobia replacing Objectivism.... and Infinite is more about man's redemption while the first Bioshock is more about the man's ambition and where it takes him.


----------



## Jena (Mar 30, 2013)

Stunna said:


> I'm still not sure which I prefer between Rapture and Columbia. I love the former's atmosphere and the fear it instilled in me, and the premise of a horror game underwater evokes the same feeling that one gets while watching _Alien_--except in _BioShock's_ case, it's "In the sea no one can hear you scream". But on a purely visual level I prefer Columbia's art design.



I like both of them for different reasons.

I really liked how we got to see Columbia degenerate. When you visit Rapture, it's already been decimated. When you first visit Columbia, it's beautiful and pristine. When you leave it, it's a burning bloody mess.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Stunna said:


> I wish I had a PC so I could play pirated games.



It's not all that special, really and I don't do it often. I wasn't sure when I'd be able to buy it and I didn't wanna miss out on all the fun conversations and achieving nirvana.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Jena said:


> I like both of them for different reasons.
> 
> I really liked how we got to see Columbia degenerate. When you visit Rapture, it's already been decimated. When you first visit Columbia, it's beautiful and pristine. When you leave it, it's a burning bloody mess.



>That one moment where everything suddenly turns to shit...


*Spoiler*: __ 



And Booker has to smash some guy's head into the spinning skyhook and kill the others.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> It's not all that special, really and I don't do it often. I wasn't sure when I'd be able to buy it and I didn't wanna miss out on all the fun conversations and achieving nirvana.



Didn't I just say don't be a Dimwit?


----------



## Mael (Mar 30, 2013)

Randians and Libtardians are often objectivists in their own rights on the merits.  Rapture was made as a self-sustaining away-from-government paradise for the ambitious and capitalist.  It was such a nod to Rand's "Gulch" term when not tied with Atlantis.  Andrew Ryan was also a massive nod, negatively, to John Galt of Atlas Shruggled and an anagram to Ayn Rand...not to mention similar bios.

And since I hated Rand with every fiber of my philosophical being, I applauded the villainizing of someone of that likeness.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 30, 2013)




----------



## Death-kun (Mar 30, 2013)

I originally thought of having to work while Bioshock sits unfinished as a curse, but I now realize that it is a blessing in disguise, giving me the opportunity to think and mull over what I've played thus far.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Didn't I just say don't be a Dimwit?



Krories aren't Dimwits.


----------



## Mael (Mar 30, 2013)

It's true.  He isn't a dimwit.  He's a Derpwit. 

And Super Sand Lesbian.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 30, 2013)

I've been having a hell of a time finding Hudson's Fine Clothes. Supposedly that's where the next code book is for the Vox message in the Bank of the Prophet. When I get home I'll go do my business in the lab and see if it appears afterwards (supposedly it's a floating shop). I see the spot where it _should_ be (I think) but it isn't there.


----------



## Mael (Mar 30, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Chen Lin.


----------



## Burke (Mar 30, 2013)

i made a thing


----------



## Stunna (Mar 30, 2013)

That sig is sexy!


----------



## Burke (Mar 30, 2013)

anyone want the transparencies? i slaved over a hot photoshop to make them


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Damn you, Burke, you stole my idea. 

I'm not sure if I really want to replace my Lara x Sam set but I'll take the transparencies. The Luteces are worth it.


----------



## StrawHatCrew (Mar 30, 2013)

Welp, just finished my first playthrough.

*Spoiler*: __ 




I felt this same exact feeling when I watched inception for the first time. Biggest mind fuck ever, but at the same time greatest thing I've ever seen. Now I just need a couple hours to sink this one in haha.




My only regret is, I wish I bought this for the PC instead of the 360. Judging from some screen shots, almost an entire different experience. Curse you achievement points!


----------



## Burke (Mar 30, 2013)

this one better?


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 30, 2013)




----------



## Rios (Mar 30, 2013)

I have mixed feelings about the ending, much like the ME3 one.

At first I was like wooow this is awesome!(you know which part)

Then the real ending comes and I am like boooooooo I dont deserve this shit 

I wait out the credits like a good boy.

Ah, I was right after all

*Spoiler*: __ 



I am not dead, there are million worlds where I exist 



which makes all this adventure kind of pointless 

Oh well, wont lose sleep over it. It was nice to see 

*Spoiler*: __ 



Rupture



again for sure


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

Rios said:


> I have mixed feelings about the ending, *much like the ME3 one.*



NO. 

*knocks over chess board*  

NO!  

If anyone is on the fence about this game just ignore that association! Its a devil's lie!


----------



## Rios (Mar 30, 2013)

Of course Bioshock had more style. Thats undeniable. But like someone else said, they try way too hard to make simple things more convoluted than they are. I didnt like it is all.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 30, 2013)

I'm pretty sure Rios is the False Shepherd.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

FALSE SHEPHERD!

YOU BACK-STABBING, SNAKE IN THE GRASS!


----------



## Rios (Mar 30, 2013)

DONT MAKE ME PULL OUT MY GRAPPLING HOOK!


----------



## Overwatch (Mar 30, 2013)

Alright, fuck savings. I'm getting this shit!


----------



## EJ (Mar 30, 2013)

Alright guys, just bought the game....

just left the boat. Here we go..


----------



## Olivia (Mar 30, 2013)

Just tried playing Bioshock 1, and couldn't.

The world, I feel, is just too confined, too close spaced. It gives me an eerie/creepy feel (which I'm sure it's intending) which makes it unplayable for me, as I can't really handle those types of situations.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

Overwatch said:


> Alright, fuck savings. I'm getting this shit!





Flow said:


> Alright guys, just bought the game....
> 
> just left the boat. Here we go..



Ascension... Ascension... 

5,000 feet... 10,000 feet.... 15,000 feet.... 

...Hallelujah....


----------



## Jena (Mar 30, 2013)

This is fucking amazing


----------



## Rios (Mar 30, 2013)

Olivia said:


> Just tried playing Bioshock 1, and couldn't.
> 
> The world, I feel, is just too confined, too close spaced. It gives me an eerie/creepy feel (which I'm sure it's intending) which makes it unplayable for me, as I can't really handle those types of situations.



Someone else I know couldnt handle BS1. Her problem was with the style XD .


----------



## Burke (Mar 30, 2013)

Rios said:


> Someone else I know couldnt handle BS1. Her problem was with the style XD .



did you just fucking "ecks dee"


----------



## Overwatch (Mar 30, 2013)

Rios said:


> Someone else I know couldnt handle BS1. Her problem was with the style XD .



The security bots really get my knickers in a twist, but it's never enough to stop me.


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 30, 2013)

I did not like Bioshock 1 

I had to watch people play it and space out when they got sent out on boring fetch quests over and over while I waited for the good stuff to happen. It was still one of the most narratively interesting games released.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

I think some of the "fetch quests" were interesting for _BioShock_.

You know, like the whole, "Here. Go murder this person for some psychopath and take a picture of their disfigured body so it can be added to some twisted, fucked-up interpretation of what said psychopath considers art!"


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

That psychopath is Sander Cohen. Say his name!  

*Spoiler*: __ 








If Infinite is missing anything its a proper Sander Cohen.


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 30, 2013)

I dislike Bioshock 1 quite a bit myself. This one is a lot better. I'm getting close to the end. I have a few problems with the game, but def a great game still.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Furious George said:


> That psychopath is Sander Cohen. Say his name!
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



This is true. They need that psychopathic role and Slate only barely filled it in. Fink hardly did anything.

But the other characters helped to make up for everything. Booker, Elizabeth, even Daisy though Daisy's mere existence only helped move along Elizabeth as far as I'm concerned.

And let us not forget the Luteces.


----------



## Rios (Mar 30, 2013)

Alright, what else I didnt like about this game:

*Guns:*
- Major problem is the removal of various ammo types and creating new guns with said types. The ka-boom fire shotgun comes to mind. I can carry around only 2 weapons, which not only makes a good chunk of the guns unusable most of the time, it also makes scavenging less fun. You'll keep finding ammo for the guns you dont use. The certain rare ammo, which you'd be happy to find in previous games, does not exist here.
- Most of the guns seem very weak without purchasing their upgrades. So unless you play on a lower difficulty, you'll wind up using 3, max 4. I know this somewhat boosts up replay value but also boosts up the chance for useless loot.
- Some upgraded guns are fucking ridiculous. Fully upgraded machine gun can be used as a sniper without a problem, you dont even need to use iron sights.

*Plasmids, Powers, Vigor, whatever*
- Why no Telekinesis? Some enemies can throw shit at me but I am unable to retaliate in style. A big bummer.

*Enemies*
- By the end of the game the enemies increase in quantity and have more health, but hardly any quality. 
- Holy crap, enemies fire rockets and grenades at you as fast as you can fire your carbine!!!!!11111
- Its unfortunate more enemies dont use variety of special powers. The fire and raven guys are a joke, there is some electricity involved but......thats it.
- Sometimes enemies appear behind me for no logical reason.
- Fuck ghost battles. 

*Loot*
- I think safes contain only money, which is a bummer. The more interesting things are behind locked doors.
- And even then the loot is probably ammo for a gun you dont use or food food food.
- Vending machines appear way, WAAAY too often. Usually in the older games they were kind of a big deal. Now they just annoy the hell all of you, especially the upgrade ones. And no, you have to click on them all the time to check if you are further enough into the game for new upgrades. I swear once I saw two identical machines like 20 meters from each other. The fuck is this for???

*Companion*
- WOULD YOU KINDLY MOVE OUT OF MY FUCKING WAY?????
- Its nice she handles you money and supplies but it'd be even nicer if at least one of those actions was made automatic. Yea thanks for those 10 coins you gave me, here, I'll loot this guy for 100 more. I swear by the end my character stopped thanking her, guess he got tired of it as well.
- Some useless bonding I personally didnt care about.
- Sometimes she starts talking all of a sudden and if I listen to a recording, her voice overlaps it, making it too quiet to hear. Annoying.
- She sometimes takes cover right at the feet of a guy, who is shooting me, breaking the immersion like a friend.

*Environment and whatever else I can remember*
- The short movie clips are weird and barely tell me a thing.
- Illusion of choice. The game gives you some choices in the beginning, teases you but in the end its all linear like a string. Thanks for that.
- Almost every man, woman and kid look the same.
- Moments, when you have to intervene, can last forever if you just stand there and watch. Its funny, but like with the companion thing it breaks immersion.

Overall its a great game, but I wouldnt give it a 9/10, more like a 8.5/10.


----------



## Zaru (Mar 30, 2013)

Olivia said:


> Just tried playing Bioshock 1, and couldn't.
> 
> The world, I feel, is just too confined, too close spaced. It gives me an eerie/creepy feel (which I'm sure it's intending) which makes it unplayable for me, as I can't really handle those types of situations.



It's another interesting factor of the series. While Bioshock 1 was confined to the extreme, Infinite was open to the extreme.


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 30, 2013)

Kind of agree with Rios. However, I don't nitpick nearly as much. But some stuff like weak interaction at points, okay gunplay, enemies needed to be better, and so on def can agree with.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> This is true. They need that psychopathic role and Slate only barely filled it in. Fink hardly did anything.
> 
> But the other characters helped to make up for everything. Booker, Elizabeth, even Daisy though Daisy's mere existence only helped move along Elizabeth as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> And let us not forget the Luteces.



Well, I like Fink mainly for some of the harsh things he said. 

The dialogue in BS1 was scary because it was so out there and random. The stuff Fink says is scary in its own way because people actually think like him... like when he was going on about lions and accepting your station in life. Just wow. 

Daisy... was overall a bit disappointing. Could have done more with her. Definitely ain't no Fontaine. 

Luteces are alrite buy me.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

>Alright

Go on. Just get out of here.

Right now.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

Not alright. I said alrite. Completely different.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

You get off this time, Jesus.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

Okay, going to start seriously writing a review soon. For real. The afterglow is dimming...


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Don't do it, Jorge.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

I'mma do it! I can be objective about this! I believe in myself!


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 30, 2013)

You're gonna fail, Georgie.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 30, 2013)

Bio1 was a masterpiece. Wtf its always somebody on the interweb


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 30, 2013)

Internet are teh devil


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 30, 2013)

Furious George said:


> I'mma do it! I can be objective about this! I believe in myself!


There is no such thing as an objective review... Unless you are just listing off things that are in the game without passing any judgement on them. Then that is not even a review but some kind of product description.

Reviews are SUBjective by nature!


I fell down a hole of old Ken Levine interviews thanks to, believe it or not, motherfuckin Glenn Beck's website:

*"Is the Video Game Being Called the ‘Best Game of the Year’ Anti-American and Anti-Conservative?"*


The person who wrote that story actually thoroughly played the game and researched their shit. Worth reading and clicking on the links for Ken Levine interviews about Occupy Wall Street influence, a story about an Irrational artist almost resigning over an older version how of the Comstock character ended, and more.

Also, its just crazy reading that on that site. Many of the comments are batshit.


----------



## Zaru (Mar 30, 2013)

I've seen the arguments about it being anti-conservative/anti-patriotic, but considering how crazy the vox populi (especially their leader) get, and how much you kill them as well, it's hardly one-sided portrayal and can simply be seen as what it is: an exaggeration for stylistic purposes.

One particular scene stands out though: When you are supposed to choose between throwing something at the racemixing couple or the announcer. I don't think any other mainstream AAA title ever allowed the player to make an openly racist decision (if only to see the result), which is quite interesting. I wonder why they included that part among all the choices.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

Stumpy said:


> There is no such thing as an objective review... Unless you are just listing off things that are in the game without passing any judgement on them. Then that is not even a review but some kind of product.
> 
> Reviews are SUBjective by nature!
> 
> ...



Of course I know that a review can never be wholly objective. In fact if you know me at all you know I am incredibly opinionated. 

That being said though I don't think that because a wholly objective review is impossible fans/journalists who attempt a review have the right to bust a nut on their keyboards and call the resulting 1000+ word catastrophe a "review".

What I am saying is I am trying to be as fair and objective as I can possibly be about Bioshock Infinite. Its the easiest thing in the world to go on fanboy rants and I know for a fact that I'd enjoy doing it with Infinite. I don't think that makes for a decent read or a helpful guide to people who may not be sure this is the game for them.

---- 

Article looks sexy.


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 30, 2013)

So beat it...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Guessed the ending again half way through the game. Motherfucking fuck fuck. I'm mad cause I like to be surprised but half way I guessed it cause I was reading to much into it. Cool way they did the ending though. Loved the Anna part too. Still...it just didn't have big impact cause I guessed it and now I'm pissed...cause I was expecting to be surprised. Owell it's cool!


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 30, 2013)

Zaru said:


> I've seen the arguments about it being anti-conservative/anti-patriotic, but considering how crazy the vox populi (especially their leader) get, and how much you kill them as well, it's hardly one-sided portrayal and can simply be seen as what it is: an exaggeration for stylistic purposes.
> 
> One particular scene stands out though: When you are supposed to choose between throwing something at the racemixing couple or the announcer. I don't think any other mainstream AAA title ever allowed the player to make an openly racist decision (if only to see the result), which is quite interesting. I wonder why they included that part among all the choices.


The game is against extremism of any kind, but not specifically anti-conservative or anti-american. Both the Founders and The Vox were extremists. You can read the article yourself or read interviews with Ken Levine (linked in the article).

I didn't feel like it was a choice of be racist or not, but blend in with the crowd or not. I'm sure some people were terrible and threw it at the couple, but others who made that choice may have just been trying to keep cover.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

Read the article. 

I'll quote something I said earlier today in response to the "anti-conservative" claims of Infinite.



Furious George said:


> You really think so? I would personally like to think it was too because I am no lover of Objectivism, but I'm not sure that was the point of Bioshock... nor do I think Infinite is a massive fuck you to religion.
> 
> Bioshock to me was more against the idea of any Utopia at all. The Ayn Rand stuff was an effective plot vehicle mainly because it was an extreme view and one that is off-putting to most people. No matter what ideology they upheld or how many other outside influences they tried to shut out (Government, Church) there is always going to be someone to sneak up and exploit the system with the result of ruining "Paradise"... in this case, Fontaine. You can't shut out human nature.
> 
> Bioshock Infinite echoes a lot of the same stuff but only with crazed Nationalism and xenophobia replacing Objectivism.... and Infinite is more about man's redemption while the first Bioshock is more about man's ambition and where it takes him.



Extremism and attempting to build Utopia on said Extremism is the only thing the Bioshock series is consistently "against".


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 30, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Of course I know that a review can never be wholly objective. In fact if you know me at all you know I am incredibly opinionated.
> 
> That being said though I don't think that because a wholly objective review is impossible fans/journalists who attempt a review have the right to bust a nut on their keyboards and call the resulting 1000+ word catastrophe a "review".
> 
> ...


Well, I don't know you. It just happens that people on the internet who believe in things such as objective reviews are one of my pet peeves. Sorry.

I totally get that you don't want to be writing your review with one hand on the keyboard and one stroking your dick to pictures of Ken Levine like too many supposed professionals seem to do these days.


----------



## Mael (Mar 30, 2013)

I knew some butthurt brigade wouldn't like the symbolism of both sides.  And praise be to 2K for actually making both sides righteous douchebags, Vox and Founders.


----------



## Zaru (Mar 30, 2013)

Mael said:


> And praise be to 2K for actually making both sides righteous douchebags, Vox and Founders.



It's funny how most players probably have more sympathy for Songbird, who nearly kills you on multiple occasions.


----------



## Furious George (Mar 30, 2013)

Stumpy said:


> Well, I don't know you. It just happens that people on the internet who believe in things such as objective reviews are one of my pet peeves. Sorry.
> 
> I totally get that you don't want to be writing your review with one hand on the keyboard and one stroking your dick to pictures of Ken Levine like too many supposed professionals seem to do these days.



I totally get what you're saying. I'm not the "arbitrary listing" type however, so even though I say I will be objective about my review I mean it more as an aspiration than a reachable goal. 

I'll let you know when my review is finished. Then you can decide for yourself if I'm coming off as a stale number-crunching machine or a fanatical stroker.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

I'm a fanatical stroker.

Just saying.


----------



## Mael (Mar 30, 2013)

Zaru said:


> It's funny how most players probably have more sympathy for Songbird, who nearly kills you on multiple occasions.



Because it's more an automaton than a philosophical gaggle of communists or xenophobes.

It's like Dog from Half-Life, except Dog > Songbird. :dealwithitdog


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 30, 2013)

Zaru said:


> It's funny how most players probably have more sympathy for Songbird, who nearly kills you on multiple occasions.



Songbird #1.


----------



## Burke (Mar 30, 2013)

If columbia just landed every now and again to dump off people that dont like them/dont want to be there, it would be a much more successful place.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Remember, you're talking about the place where Fink actually bought and transferred black people there for the sole reason to be hated, for people to have something to hate, to have an "enemy" and the need for a police force.


----------



## crazymtf (Mar 30, 2013)

My video review! 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAmjOeEmGJY[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 30, 2013)

Zaru said:


> It's funny how most players probably have more sympathy for Songbird, who nearly kills you on multiple occasions.



You mean that massively hyped monster that was in, like, half of the spots and previews, and only showed up...


*Spoiler*: __ 



in cutscenes and that "defend the objective!" boat ride at the end?

That Songbird?


----------



## Mael (Mar 30, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> You mean that massively hyped monster that was in, like, half of the spots and previews, and only showed up...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Dog is alpha.

Songbird is beta.


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 30, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> You mean that massively hyped monster that was in, like, half of the spots and previews, and only showed up...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


The jokes on you for following the hype and previews.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

He has a point.

Though I guess it's better than drumming up the Big Daddies and they end up going just as quickly and easily as your average Splicer. I'm glad I didn't fight the Songbird because I think I would've felt more disappointed if it went that way, like, "Well... uh... that was disappointing."


----------



## axellover2 (Mar 30, 2013)

Stumpy said:


> There is no such thing as an objective review... Unless you are just listing off things that are in the game without passing any judgement on them. Then that is not even a review but some kind of product description.
> 
> Reviews are SUBjective by nature!
> 
> ...



That was an interesting review. I gotta say I was a little worried about the game, but at the end I only think its anti- extremist. Both groups were douche bags and I really liked that. Its a good reminder that no matter where you stand you have to be careful and not act like  an unlikable crazy person with your beliefs.


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> He has a point.
> 
> Though I guess it's better than drumming up the Big Daddies and they end up going just as quickly and easily as your average Splicer. I'm glad I didn't fight the Songbird because I think I would've felt more disappointed if it went that way, like, "Well... uh... that was disappointing."



*Spoiler*: __ 



I guess I was fine with Songbird being underused rather than overused. The way the story was written I don't remember Songbird having much significance other than being a big weapon to keep Elizabeth safely locked up in the tower and then throughout the game he is just a tool of destruction. Maybe I'm missing something, but its not all that interesting.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

His point that was it was on every promotional material. It was the focus of many trailers for a while. Hell, the Collector's Edition comes with a statue of it. It's called the _Songbird Edition_. Aside from Elizabeth and Booker, Songbird is what we saw most (and sometimes more than - I know more promotional material and alternate covers used Songbird). So much focus on Songbird and he was probably in... ten percent of the game? At the most?


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 30, 2013)

Krory said:


> His point that was it was on every promotional material. It was the focus of many trailers for a while. Hell, the Collector's Edition comes with a statue of it. It's called the _Songbird Edition_. Aside from Elizabeth and Booker, Songbird is what we saw most (and sometimes more than - I know more promotional material and alternate covers used Songbird). So much focus on Songbird and he was probably in... ten percent of the game? At the most?


Ok, sure. I get ya.

I guess I just didn't pay enough attention to stuff surrounding the game.


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Yeah, it is underwhelming for someone who followed the game so much from the start. Though frankly there was so much else going on I sometimes forgot about Songbird until he was brought up.  Like I said, ultimately, I'm beyond satisfied with the game but I can see why it would bother some people.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 30, 2013)

I'm... what... the credits are rolling... and... what the...


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 30, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> I'm... what... the credits are rolling... and... what the...


Welcome to the thread. You have some spoiler tags to click on ;3


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2013)

Be sure to wait out the credits, matey.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 30, 2013)

dont skip them...


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 30, 2013)

I ain't skippin', don't worry.

At this point I kinda need a hug/need to lay down and cry, but I think my brain is too messed up to remember how.


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 31, 2013)

So I had to skip the credits because I had to leave literally at that moment that I beat the game. Then I saw people hyping the after credits scene, so I watched it on youtube.


*Spoiler*: __ 



That was probably my most disappointing part of Bioshock Infinite (obviously because I let people create expectations for me). Literally nothing happens. It would have been a cool little bonus if I had the normal experience of watching the credits and getting the candy at the end, but in my case it was kind of just a waste of time to seek out videos of it on the web.

By "most disappointing" I mean I was like "that was lame" for a moment and then I went on thinking about how fucking awesome this game was.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

What a wonderful masterpiece of a game. I can't take it all in... so many things make sense, but I'm still left with so many questions. That after credits scene made things so much better. 

I only have one complaint about this game.

Not enough Songbird. 

But... 


*Spoiler*: __ 



The scene where Elizabeth drowns Songbird in Rapture made me want to cry, despite how little it was in the game. It makes me wonder if it genuinely felt for her. I sure thought so. Despite the lack of facial expressions, I could still feel the anguish.


----------



## Burke (Mar 31, 2013)

i remember the first gameinformer cover of infinite
god how long ago was that?
i was in the middle of fucking high school


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

loooool I remember that, it was a long time ago.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 31, 2013)

it only was announced 3 years ago. compared to versus thats nothing


----------



## Burke (Mar 31, 2013)

please stop before we start telling everyone how long weve been waiting for certain games


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 31, 2013)

Wow, I guess I really don't get the attachment to Songbird.


*Spoiler*: __ 



When did Songbird ever show emotions or characteristics worthy of our affection? Elizabeth said he used to be like her only friend, but he wasn't like that anymore. And until the end he was just a tool of Comstock's to wreck shop like two times in the whole game.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Stumpy said:


> Wow, I guess I really don't get the attachment to Songbird.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Like others said before, for those who've followed the game for years he was given a lot of attention and hype. He and Elizabeth were basically the face of Bioshock Infinite. 

Also... 
*Spoiler*: __ 



that wasn't exactly what she said. She said she grew up. It's like having an imaginary friend. You eventually grow out of it and move on. But Songbird stayed indefinitely. Kind of a symbol of how powerless she was, rather than a companion to ease her loneliness.




I hope the DLC expands on Songbird more, because I sorely wanted to see him more. Some escape sequences and more appearances would've been nice.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Considering how hellbent Comstock was on getting Elizabeth back you would think that Songbird would've shown up more than he did. Comstock will send waves of enemies, but not the giant behemoth he made specifically to protect Elizabeth?


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Regardless, what did you guys think of the game and the ending? Pack those spoilers with as much as you want, because now I can click them without any fear.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 31, 2013)

only the song could alert him. i also suggest you go back and read our earlier reactions


----------



## Byrd (Mar 31, 2013)

Currently playing through the game... its freakin awesome so far... The characters are some much better this time around as compose to 2


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

*Spoiler*: _About Songbird_ 



Songbird's death seemed to show some degree of emotion. Even after it left berserker rage mode, it was reaching out for Elizabeth repeatedly as she tried to comfort it while it cried out and screeched. It was almost like a sad puppy-dog, "Why are you doing this to me?" reaction. That's what I derived from it. For all we know, Songbird could have had no realization that it was doing anything wrong, just what it was told. And for that, it was being made to suffer and die. If it had any degree of sentience, it must have been _horrifying_ for it.

We also don't know the creation of Songbird so for all we know it could have been something along the lines of the Big Daddy, as it was implied that Fink obtained the knowledge from observing such instances through tears. There could have been something sentient in there without any real will that is purely under control. Although it shows no emotion of Songbird, it could explain why someone would feel emotional _about_ Songbird.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 31, 2013)

2 does not exist


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Yes, I know that, Inu. 

However, with Comstock being a "prophet", or at least knowing of Booker's coming, you would think he would've placed more whistling tinmen throughout Columbia. 

Though I don't remember exactly how those tinmen were activated.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Krory said:


> *Spoiler*: _About Songbird_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Indeed. It didn't seem like it was just in dying panic mode because it was reaching out to Elizabeth for her to help him. It can't just be purely automaton either, or else it couldn't have drowned to death, so there must have been something living inside of there. Even if it's purely under control it still has feelings for Elizabeth, like how the Big Daddies are connected to the Little Sisters. I feel for Songbird because it showed what looks like true emotion during that last scene, not just something it's being commanded to do. We also see in an earlier scene that it actually responds and listens to Elizabeth. If it weren't for her intervening Booker would've been squashed like a bug. It also seemed to take Elizabeth's apology to heart, like her apologizing actually meant something to him.


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm not sure it actually drowned. It was probably the pressure that killed it since it seemed to be vulnerable to such things, though it's possible the pressure just allowed it _to_ drown. But regardless, yes, there's also what you mentioned about Songbird responding to Elizabeth's apology and her affections.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Krory said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure it actually drowned. It was probably the pressure that killed it since it seemed to be vulnerable to such things, though it's possible the pressure just allowed it _to_ drown. But regardless, yes, there's also what you mentioned about Songbird responding to Elizabeth's apology and her affections.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Ah yes, I hadn't thought of that in my reply. Considering it needed to be lightweight enough to fly, it would make sense for it to not be adapted at all to survive higher-pressure environments, especially underwater. It's eyeglass cracked just from following Booker down into the water after the fall.

This just makes me wish there was more Songbird for us to know.


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

*Spoiler*: _Songbird_ 



I agree, I wish there was more to it for fact but I think that it speaks to what they accomplished that some of us are able to put so much together from just _ideas_ and it all seems feasible.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Krory said:


> *Spoiler*: _Songbird_
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, I wish there was more to it for fact but I think that it speaks to what they accomplished that some of us are able to put so much together from just _ideas_ and it all seems feasible.




*Spoiler*: __ 



There's always DLC as well, so I look forward to learning more even if I don't end up buying it. Though I more than likely will. They're such a tease, giving us enough information to make these fantastical theories but not enough to satisfy our curiosity. 

Though I will say that the Vetruvian Songbird was marvelous.


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

Yes! That was pretty awesome.

And I'll probably be going to get the Season Pass soon.  Like I said earlier, the woman at GameStop said something about being able to get the guide and the Season Pass for only twenty bucks as long as I come back by the 9th with my receipt.

I'm quite glad that 2K didn't see it fit to try and shoehorn in multiplayer to pad the experience like _BioShock 2_ and _Spec Ops: The Line_. I guess they realized _BioShock Infinite_'s story is enough.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 31, 2013)

shit ya you know it


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

I apparently missed out on the fact that Rhianna Pratchett did some additional writing for the game (sounds like she did something along the lines of AI writing? Quoted as saying: "I did a similar thing for BioShock Infinite where I worked on the AI for that and helped to kind of define it, but as a minor writer in the spectrum.").

I must've missed this in the credits because her name comes up right when Troy Baker is playing guitar and Courtnee Draper is singing for _Will the Circle Be Unbroken_.


----------



## Burke (Mar 31, 2013)

damn my avatar is hot, i should open up a shop


----------



## OS (Mar 31, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



 Don't know what to say about the ending. Didn't make me happy. Sure it was a nice twist if I followed it right. But I wish they went to Paris  instead of fucking your mind. And there is no karma or moral system which is kind of my favorite thing in these games.


----------



## "Shion" (Mar 31, 2013)

This is fucking me sideways!

Any of you guys experienced this? I'm stuck on 95%, and I even went as far as to delete game saves and data, but it proved fruitless.


----------



## Jake CENA (Mar 31, 2013)

Throw your PS3 Shion-kun and buy a new one.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 31, 2013)

no no.. it's karma.. that's what he gets for being a dick all the time


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 31, 2013)

Krory said:


> *Spoiler*: _About Songbird_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This. This very much..



Krory said:


> Yes! That was pretty awesome.
> 
> And I'll probably be going to get the Season Pass soon.  Like I said earlier, the woman at GameStop said something about being able to get the guide and the Season Pass for only twenty bucks as long as I come back by the 9th with my receipt.
> 
> I'm quite glad that 2K didn't see it fit to try and shoehorn in multiplayer to pad the experience like _BioShock 2_ and _Spec Ops: The Line_. I guess they realized _BioShock Infinite_'s story is enough.



if only that's true with most games recently. i mean you can always scrap MP and make the story/campaign better. 

it is certainly not needed.. nor will it attract the CoD/BF fanbase.


----------



## "Shion" (Mar 31, 2013)

A dick, huh?

So perhaps I should try harder?


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 31, 2013)

try being a cunt once in a while


----------



## Burke (Mar 31, 2013)

If anyone wants an infinite related set, im free all day tomorrow so send me your requests


----------



## Zaru (Mar 31, 2013)

What kind of DLCs are they planning that there's a season pass?


----------



## Rios (Mar 31, 2013)

oh yea, also the bird in this game disappointed me greatly 

*Spoiler*: __ 



I waited for soooo long to fight that bastard as the final boss, no final boss after all >.>


----------



## Ciupy (Mar 31, 2013)

It is done....






​






Ending spoilers ahead:



*Spoiler*: __ 



It was a stable time loop created by the very existance of that defining moment,the baptism that created Comstock in one universe and was refused by Booker in another creating the failed detective that would sell his only daughter to pay his gambling debt to Comstock which got rich with the quantum tear tech but went sterile due to the same tech and wanted a child (and not a stranger's child,but his own flesh and blood from a different reality) to succeed him.

Destroying that moment of choice created by the baptism will make sure that Comstock never exists in the first place,but also kills Booker and Elizabeth..all of her versions.

Fuck.

What are your opinions on the ending scene after the credits?

Was the loop finally broken and is this a version where Comstock never existed and Booker will raise Anna as his beloved daughter...or this thing is Booker's eternal hell and the loop is unbreakable and truly infinite?


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Ciupy said:


> It is done....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I think that the circle actually was broken due to the brief scene after the credits. A new reality is created by destroying the decision that would create two. A reality where Booker is given a second chance (it's implied that he remembered everything with how he rushes in to see if Anna is actually in her crib) to raise his daughter. Instead of it being a hell for him, I think it was actually a chance at redemption given to him by Elizabeth.


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 31, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



NO, BOOKER, YOU ARE THE COMSTOCKS

And then Booker was Comstock.


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

Zaru said:


> What kind of DLCs are they planning that there's a season pass?



There will be three single-player/story DLCs. They've just said "new locations, new characters, new weapons" and Ken Levine claims that the story stuff he's writing for them are a "love letter to the fans."


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

I wish I could say I could take a guess as to what might be planned, but I don't really have much of an idea besides elaborating on Songbird. But that only covers one out of the three.

Speaking of season pass, though, I gotta go buy it off Steam. I'm gonna do that now.


----------



## OS (Mar 31, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I think that the circle actually was broken due to the brief scene after the credits. A new reality is created by destroying the decision that would create two. A reality where Booker is given a second chance (it's implied that he remembered everything with how he rushes in to see if Anna is actually in her crib) to raise his daughter. Instead of it being a hell for him, I think it was actually a chance at redemption given to him by Elizabeth.




*Spoiler*: __ 



the whole thing was a dream


----------



## Rios (Mar 31, 2013)

the ending was obviously

*Spoiler*: __ 



a bad one
well good for me because my character doesnt get erased

if the ending was a good one, we would have seen the baptism in the end
but no, its just a little fix in the million probabilities




At least one DLC will expand on the Letuces for sure.


----------



## EJ (Mar 31, 2013)

Just wanted to say thanks for spoiling tagging your guys stuff. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 i got so pissed when I saw people about to throw baseballs at those two individuals. Tried to throw it at the guy but the police tried to ambush me. I finally found the teenage girl a we're washed up on the beach now.


----------



## Rukia (Mar 31, 2013)

Bioshock Infinite:  10/10.  Great game.  Strong GOTY contender.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

@ Rios:


*Spoiler*: __ 



I don't think the ending was a bad one. Even if the after credits scene wasn't shown I still don't think it would've been a bad one. The after credits scene just makes it even better. Booker allowing himself to be drowned so reality could be fixed. Though I do wonder if the baptism decision occurred before or after he gave up Anna to pay his gambling debts. If the deal happened before the baptism the after credits scene makes a lot more sense because Booker is now given the second chance he always wanted, for both him and his daughter. 

Well, now that I think about it there is no way the deal could've happened after the baptism (in the reality where Booker refuses to do it) because there would be no way he could've shown up in apartment with Anna in the crib, because if the deal occurred after the baptism that reality would've been destroyed.

So, in the end, the clusterfuck in time and space that occurred from the defining baptism choice was erased, but everything before that remained intact. And since Booker "smothered Comstock in the crib", there is no deal, giving him the chance to finally raise his daughter like he wanted to. 

All in all, I actually consider this whole ordeal a happy ending.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Mar 31, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> the whole thing was a dream




*Spoiler*: __ 



Within a dream

INFINITECEPTION


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 31, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> @ Rios:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


     basically my thoughts too.   
*Spoiler*: __ 



it ties into the redemption theme of sins being forgiven. selling anna was his final sin after a long life of so many sins. But with help from her through their journey, her love and forgiveness, he was able to finally atone and create a world where they could be happy together as a family.


 
truly a masterpiece


----------



## Overwatch (Mar 31, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> truly a masterpiece



And yet there are assholes boycotting it because they think it's ME3 all over again. Gotta love the modern gaming community. :33


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> basically my thoughts too.
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



Indeed.


*Spoiler*: __ 



I also like how it's implied that he remembers everything from their journey together during the game. It ties into how Booker was telling Elizabeth that you can never forget your sins. Booker will never forget what he's done, but he's given the chance to redo his worst and final sin and is given a chance at happiness and redemption. Thanks to his daughter, funnily enough. 

I wonder what the Luteces really wanted after all. If Comstock was never "born", doesn't that mean that Rosalind Lutece would never have been recruited by him and therefore the quantum tech would have never been developed? It makes me wonder if the Luteces would've ever existed at all. Perhaps their existence during the game was merely to help the greater good by fixing the botched timeline. Less for Booker and Elizabeth's sake and more to prevent Comstock/future Elizabeth from raining hellfire upon the world.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 31, 2013)

who the fuck is boycotting....i think ppl are getting stupider by the minute


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

How the fuck is this ending like ME3? I never played it, but...


*Spoiler*: __ 



wasn't the ending of ME3 basically "everyone dies", with not much more substance than that?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 31, 2013)

thing is me3 gave u the illusion of choice thoughout the trilogy hence ppl were pissed with the 3 straightforward endings. bioinf banged ppl in the the head with lived lives will live died dies will die.


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> How the fuck is this ending like ME3? I never played it, but...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



No. It wasn't.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Ahhh, now I see why people would be mad at ME3's ending.  I had never played it, so I had no idea. 

But yeah... 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Bioshock Infinite didn't really have choices... the choices it did have were more personal and morally impacting than they were about anything else. Just the fact that the choice was presented to you, even if the decision changed nothing.


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

But I bet people _thought_ it would matter since the Little Sisters bit in _BioShock_ basically led to, "Eat us and you're a bad man, don't and you're Jesus."


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Indeed, that is true. I wonder how Infinite would've been with multiple endings.


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

The endings would have been... _infinite_.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Mar 31, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



How frikkin cute was elizabeth/anna as a baby?:3 The scene where the handover is taking place and booker is trying to stop them was pretty emotional


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Krory said:


> The endings would have been... _infinite_.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH



Dr.Douchebag said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> How frikkin cute was elizabeth/anna as a baby?:3 The scene where the handover is taking place and booker is trying to stop them was pretty emotional




*Spoiler*: __ 



Indeed, that scene was very touching. I bet Booker was wondering what the fuck was going on with the space-time hole and everything. Booker trying to get his daughter back from Booker.


----------



## Aruarian (Mar 31, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



 It also fulfilled the fantasy of all those people wanting to see Elizabeth topless.


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

I like the language and ambient conversations. Even if it's when Booker responds, "Much obliged" when Elizabeth throws him money to when Booker sees a black man smoking in the back corner near the carousel. The man gets all flustered, saying he's never done it before, please excuse him, blah, blah, blah and Booker's says, "Hey, smoke 'em if you got 'em, I'm no gendarme."


----------



## EJ (Mar 31, 2013)

I don't like running through this game...they gave it so much detail. It's been awhile since I've played a game in which it literally felt like there was a lot to explore. 

Even if the citizens are annoying with their racism, ignorance, and are brain washed you still want to see what's up with the town. 

Really do enjoy this game so far, and I like how Elizabeth isn't someone who annoyingly just tags along. 

She interacts with the environment, dialogue, etc


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 31, 2013)

I can't believe there are people thinking Irrational Games is racist because of all the racist imagery in the game.  Do people really not know how art works?


----------



## Zaru (Mar 31, 2013)

Flow said:


> She interacts with the environment, dialogue, etc



She's also immune to damage and doesn't flinch when some fire dude explodes right in front of her face


----------



## Stunna (Mar 31, 2013)

I know, right?


----------



## EJ (Mar 31, 2013)

Wait, is that directed towards me Boskov?

And yeah, lol I noticed she does stuff like that the first time there was a firefight.

But it's whatever, I can look past it.


----------



## Alien (Mar 31, 2013)

Some of the quests around the middle felt like obvious padding


----------



## Stunna (Mar 31, 2013)

Alien said:


> Some of the quests around the middle felt like obvious padding




*Spoiler*: __ 



I sort of felt the same way. Like when you finally found Chen Lin, only to be told you had to turn around and go fetch his tools.


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I can't believe there are people thinking Irrational Games is racist because of all the racist imagery in the game.  Do people really not know how art works?



This is basically what I _exactly_ expect from the gaming community anymore.

@Stunna - Loving the Lutece set.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Zaru said:


> She's also immune to damage and doesn't flinch when some fire dude explodes right in front of her face




*Spoiler*: __ 



Space-time, brah. 






Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I can't believe there are people thinking Irrational Games is racist because of all the racist imagery in the game.  Do people really not know how art works?



Of course they don't know. They don't take the creation for what it is because they see something they don't like, so they attack the creator.

I also don't doubt that before the hype of BioInf quiets down there will at least be one news site that has no business covering video games writing an article about how BioInf "scared" parents with its mature themes and tried to subconsciously promote racism.


----------



## Zaru (Mar 31, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> writing an article about how BioInf "scared" parents with its mature themes and tried to subconsciously promote racism.



Parents? The game is rated for 17+ or adults depending on the country. Children officially have no fucking business with it and if a child plays the game, its the parents' fault for not paying attention to what their children are doing.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Parents? The game is rated for 17+ or adults depending on the country. Children officially have no fucking business with it and if a child plays the game, its the parents' fault for not paying attention to what their children are doing.



When has the ESRB/any age rating ever stopped parents from buying inappropriate games for their kids and complaining about it when they actually watch/realize what they bought for their children? 

Never, that's when.


----------



## Aruarian (Mar 31, 2013)

I'm kinda sad they cut out the toy-shop bit, tho.


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Like when parents complain about how games like CoD or GTA promote violence in their fragile, still-developing children.

Um, then why are you buying the games for them? 

But the parents are more likely to blame developers for making a game than take responsibility and actually pay attention to what their children are doing.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Mar 31, 2013)

Anyone finished 1999 mode? Just started it recently

I have to say games like bioshock infinite just prove that out of all the electronic entertainment outlets such as movies/tv/music the video game industry is evolving the most.

Just the storyline and atmosphere of this game were so beautiful it was certainly better than any recent sci fi tv series or show, the ending of this and dues ex revolution(which I still remember and ponder on lol) just stick with you and have proper impact like any great movie/tv show/ book

Which makes me kind of sad that video games are still classified as being more towards younger audiences when many of them are essentially great stories which are interactive


----------



## Zaru (Mar 31, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> When has the ESRB/any age rating ever stopped parents from buying inappropriate games for their kids and complaining about it when they actually watch/realize what they bought for their children?
> 
> Never, that's when.



I don't know why we even allow them to complain. It's like buying porn for your children and complaining that there are genitals in it.


----------



## Jena (Mar 31, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> I also don't doubt that before the hype of BioInf quiets down there will at least be one news site that has no business covering video games writing an article about how BioInf "scared" parents with its mature themes and tried to subconsciously promote racism.



I've already seen some articles about it. It's also being criticized for promoting "anti-Americanism" or some bs.


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

>Safety Deposit Box
>Banana

Oh, I love you, _BioShock Infinite_.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 31, 2013)

as ken said "if you get ppl to talk, youve done your job"    ken is all about pulling ppl out of their safe zones.


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 31, 2013)

Screenshot Dump Truck BEEP BEEP:
*Don't click if you haven't beaten the game*. These are mostly the ones that stood out from the 300 screens I took while playing.












































There's basically all the good Songbird and many good Lutece moments. Sorry they aren't in any particular order, but you can see thumbnails (and more screenshots) at least if you go to the steam community page.


----------



## Jena (Mar 31, 2013)

Thank you for these!


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

Thanks for these, Stumpy. Some awesome shots.


----------



## Ciupy (Mar 31, 2013)

I can't believe I'm STILL thinking about the ending..

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e4Crth_Hb8[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

I've been thinking about the ending all day. 

Also, Stumpy, thank you so much for those screens. I was having such a hard time finding, well... _any_ good pictures of Songbird. >__> It completely slipped my mind to try and take some good screenshots of


*Spoiler*: __ 



Songbird attacking the Vox Populi fleet.


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 31, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> I've been thinking about the ending all day.
> 
> Also, Stumpy, thank you so much for those screens. I was having such a hard time finding, well... _any_ good pictures of Songbird. >__> It completely slipped my mind to try and take some good screenshots of
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



I mentioned it to the others, but because I played the game on hard that final battle with Songbird against the Vox fleet trying to defend the thing on the ship nearly had me in tears of anger. Maybe it was because I was anticipating the end (and it turned out that really was the final combat sequence), but I was so fucking mad at all the Patriot bots they kept throwing at me and the lack of ammo/salts I had to take them out in time to save the ship.

Unfortunately, due to my raging I didn't really think to screenshot much in that fight


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

Stumpy said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Oh God, that fight... I finally succeeded on the third try, but those Motorized Patriots... the fight goes so well until those bastards and the zeppelins show up, and then everything goes downhill really really fast. I don't blame you for not taking any screenshots, that fight is so rage-inducing.


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 31, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Oh God, that fight... I finally succeeded on the third try, but those Motorized Patriots... the fight goes so well until those bastards and the zeppelins show up, and then everything goes downhill really really fast. I don't blame you for not taking any screenshots, that fight is so rage-inducing.


I just lowered the difficulty after a few tries because I had no idea if I was close to the end of the sequence or not -_- Lost my dumb Hard Mode achievement on the last battle of the game. As it turns out, I made it as far as about 30 seconds away from the end of the sequence on one of my tries before changing the difficulty, but as far as I could see there was no way to really know that.

A minor gripe overall. I really am glad I played on Hard though.


----------



## "Shion" (Mar 31, 2013)

Just got through the intro.


----------



## Burke (Mar 31, 2013)

congrats, thats the hard part


----------



## Death-kun (Mar 31, 2013)

It doesn't really do a good job of telling you how close you were to beating it.  

I'd like to make a Songbird gif sig, but it would contain spoilers.


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

Do it anyway.

I want a gif of...


*Spoiler*: __ 



When Elizabeth kills Fitzroy.


----------



## Stunna (Mar 31, 2013)

Krory said:


> Do it anyway.
> 
> I want a gif of...
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __


----------



## "Shion" (Mar 31, 2013)

Man getting burnt.


----------



## Byrd (Mar 31, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



That scene where Elizabeth hands an apple to the boy while you are playing a guitar... I love times like this


----------



## Stunna (Mar 31, 2013)




----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> That scene where Elizabeth hands an apple to the boy while you are playing a guitar... I love times like this



I mostly love it because it's actually Courtnee Draper singing and Troy Baker playing the guitar.


----------



## Bleach (Apr 1, 2013)

I just finished the game a few hours ago and man was it brilliant. Everything about it was awesome especially the story. The ending made me feel so satisfied and sad because it was over. First time in a very long time a game has ever made me feel like this. I love the story and 


*Spoiler*: __ 



the infinite universe part was jaw dropping. And when we were taken to Rapture, I almost squealed like a little girl. So many things about the last 15 minutes made me all giddy




One of my top 5 games ever.


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

*Spoiler*: _I love you, Lutece Twins_ 



Robert: Dead is dead.
Rosalind: I see heads...
Robert: ...and I see tails
Rosalind: It's all a matter of perspective.
Rosalind: What do you see here, from this angle?
Robert: Dead.
Rosalind: And from that angle?
Robert: Alive.

----

Robert: The same Columbia.
Rosalind: A different perspective.
Robert: Heads.
Rosalind: Tails.
Robert: Dead.
Rosalind: Alive.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 1, 2013)

So how do y'all take care of the baddies?

Guns? Powers? Bitches?

I like the shotgun/possession combo.

Shit works like a charm.


----------



## Jena (Apr 1, 2013)

I spammed murder of crows. Bought the upgrade where the corpses of murder of crows victims became traps. There were crows everywhere during my playthrough 

For weapons, I used the shotgun and the machine gun. Occasionally used the carbine.


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

For weapons I prefer shotty and carbine/pistol. On the playthrough I'm doing now, I had a recent stint where I would hit them with Bucking Bronco and headshot them in midair with a sniper rifle.

Last playthrough I used every Vigor except Return to Sender but in my second playthrough, I'm using that a lot more. It ended up being extremely useful when fighting...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Lady Comstock




And....


*Spoiler*: __ 



This playthrough I'm picking up on a lot of things I missed the first time. The changing statue of the Luteces. Seeing the Luteces in the first telescope with Robert juggling, but then they disappear when you exit. Booker's first nosebleed makes sense and I didn't remember it when the revelations started occurring during my first playthrough. All of Elizabeth's wish-fulfillment and it's possibilities. I laugh at small things like Booker telling Fitzroy the airship is his and she remarks, "Looks like Comstock's to me." After Booker is knocked unconscious by Songbird the second time, going through the bedroom door in his dream/subconscious as he's being told, "Bring us the girl...".

Having beaten the game already it really feels like that second time through is just that much better.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 1, 2013)

I can never choose between the life, shield, or fucking salt upgrades...


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

I know most people say go Shield but I went all Salts this playthrough (I just ended up getting enough to max out my Shield and Salts at the point I'm at) and had no trouble, personally. Only playing on Normal though, I think a lot of people started on Hard.


----------



## SternRitter (Apr 1, 2013)

Maxed out bucking bronco + maxed out devils kiss + storm gear = insane nuking, barely need to do anything because its more or less an instakill, especially with groups. Works a treat on the finale too so you can focus on the patriots.


----------



## martryn (Apr 1, 2013)

Just beat the game like 45 minutes ago.  I think I more or less understand almost everything.  I wanted to point something out that I noticed but haven't seen mentioned:


*Spoiler*: _Kinda spoiler about the Lutece twins_ 



Ok, so the twins are the same person from different realities.  That's cool.  I didn't really catch that until the end of the game, but looking back, there was a scene that made it kinda obvious when you think about it, but didn't stick out as anything but odd the first time you see it.

As you're floating up toward... I think Comstock House.... I think.... there are a series of platforms on either side that the Lutece twins are on, seemingly teleporting from one to the next as you go past them.  On one platform you have Rosalind striking a pose while Robert paints her, but as you pass and can see the painting, Robert is painting himself.

Which is cool, because he really is _painting himself!_  When I realized that they were the same person (one of those tape things), that's the first thing I thought of.




I would personally disagree with all the hype about this game.  It's great, but it's not the most amazing game ever, like I've seen some reviewers saying.  I think it fails to live up to it's potential, and I personally liked the first Bioshock more due to the creepier environment and the heavier emphasis on horror.


*Spoiler*: _Also noticed this too early_ 



That part with Slate in the Hall of Heroes where they show the biography of Comstock.  Man would only be 38 at the time of the game.  Then I noticed he had the same birth year as DeWitt, which is partially covered up on the loading screens but still discernible.  So, yeah, caught on immediately that Comstock and DeWitt were the same person, which made it too easy to deduce that Elizabeth was your daughter.

The big mystery for most of the game, therefore, was trying to figure out if Lady Comstock was Anna, and what the fuck was going on with the Lutece twins, so I felt a bit let down with the ending when they saved the most obvious reveal of the game as their big plot twist




Played the game on Medium, so I might do another playthrough on hard to see if there was anything I missed.  I know I didn't collect like a dozen voxophones (or whatever they're called).


----------



## Rios (Apr 1, 2013)

Whats the point of nuking everything with plasmids when the game keeps feeding you ammo for the guns you dont need  . You know what would be cool? A sell function, which would actually encourage you to do crazy things like play plasmids only, something you sadly cant do in a normal game.

Also I played on Normal too and never died. Not even once. So do yourself a favor and play it on hard, although I imagine the final battle would be quite frustrating.


----------



## martryn (Apr 1, 2013)

Now I realize why I was so disappointed.  I've been waiting for this game for 2 years, but the game I was waiting for was more like this:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HANw9DJu6h8[/YOUTUBE]

The finished product just seemed like it changed a lot over the last couple of years.  The plasmids worked differently than advertized, and there didn't seem to be the same level of cooperation between you and Elizabeth, and they definitely changed the story a LOT.  

Again, not saying it was a bad game, and I realize that games are gonna change a bit from development, but there was a certain feel to this game that I was expecting but didn't ever find.  It was altogether a different game.  Toward the end you experience a Columbia that's falling to ruin, but it's not the wasteland of a city that was Rapture, which is what the Columbia from two years ago looked like.  I kinda like the idea of the city floating due to giant balloons.  Much more steam punky.  *shrug*  I don't know.  I wonder why all these massive changes.



> Whats the point of nuking everything with plasmids when the game keeps feeding you ammo for the guns you dont need



Didn't end up using the plasmids that much when I played.  The guns were highly effective.  My plasmid use was mainly for crowd control.



> Also I played on Normal too and never died. Not even once. So do yourself a favor and play it on hard, although I imagine the final battle would be quite frustrating.



I played on normal as well and only died 3 times.  And two of those shouldn't count as they were beyond my control.


----------



## Rios (Apr 1, 2013)

Thats why I never watch trailers or look for information about upcoming games. All I knew about Bioshock: Infinite was that its in the air instead of under the water


----------



## Rios (Apr 1, 2013)

Hell, I didnt even know Elizabeth would be after my ass during 80% of the gameplay. I thought the woman in the cover is just some kind of little sister grown big.


----------



## Zaru (Apr 1, 2013)

For some reason pretty much none of the scenes from the early gameplay trailers appeared in the game. It must have undergone SEVERE restructure during development. Imagine how much that stuff must have cost to make despite never being used, no wonder the game was expensive as fuck.


----------



## lathia (Apr 1, 2013)

Finally got the game today. Hope they release a novel much like they did with Bioshock.


----------



## Stumpy (Apr 1, 2013)

martryn said:


> Now I realize why I was so disappointed.  I've been waiting for this game for 2 years, but the game I was waiting for was more like this:
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HANw9DJu6h8[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> ...



lol looking back on that trailer today is pretty funny. Basically nothing from the Bioshock Infinite we eventually got was in that trailer. It would have been cool to see more player cooperation with Elizabeth, but I trust Irrational as a studio would have done that mechanic if it was possible within the scope of this game's development time and resource budgets.

And for comments about the game costing a lot to make (Zaru), if you mean the rumor that it costed ~$200 million, Ken Levine denied that on the Twitters himself.



So... $199 million budget confirmed.


----------



## Pein (Apr 1, 2013)

finished it, loved it. Probably my Game of the generation.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 1, 2013)

Fuck, that demo was goddamn awesome.


----------



## Bleach (Apr 1, 2013)

I mainly just melee'd everything in sight that I could. Got the gear that increases melee range by 3x and the hat that does 400 burning damage over 5 seconds. Sooo damn easy with that and I used Charge and Buckin Bronco for my main vigors. Was pretty easy. I hated fighting the handyman's though. They were so annoying.


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

I like how people blame the game because they _choose_ to not have fun.  We live in a day and age where fun must be forced on you, I guess.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 1, 2013)

I think I look around for shit too much..


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

I thought the same thing.

Now I'm towards the end of the game and only have 63/80 Voxomophones.  And still missing like ten of the telescopes/other things.


----------



## Awesome (Apr 1, 2013)

Rios said:


> Thats why I never watch trailers or look for information about upcoming games. All I knew about Bioshock: Infinite was that its in the air instead of under the water



Same here. I came in with no expectations other than that it was a city in the sky, and I ended up with an extremely satisfying experience. Probably the best of this generation, if not one of the best.


----------



## Stunna (Apr 1, 2013)

I actually wasn't going to play it at first because I was tired of my friends going on about it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 1, 2013)

So for those who have finished the game, who do you think that guy in the lighthouse was?


----------



## Slice (Apr 1, 2013)

Id say just some random dude taking care of the entry point to Columbia.


----------



## Zaru (Apr 1, 2013)

Then who shot him?


----------



## Slice (Apr 1, 2013)

I have no answer to that. 

To set the events in motion it was required for Booker to reach Columbia, that guy probably was one of the first variables that could have prevented him getting there so he had to be removed.



I read somewhere that 

*Spoiler*: __ 



every time Booker dies he really is dead but the Luteces take him back to the pint where it all began at the lighthouse. So it always starts from the beginning and unfolds exactly the same way as before until the point where he died and the player as Booker now makes a different decision that prevents him from dying. This is why Booker has guessed heads/tails over a hundred times already when he is only asked to guess one time in the game.

Maybe the Luteces arranged that guys death or Booker killed him himself and its just one of the things his mind erased while adjusting to the new reality.


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

Ken Levine was asked about the man in the light house...



> RT @_penguin93: @IGLevine Whats the story with lighthouse keeper? ---Once upon a time there was a lighthouse keeper, and he was very sad...


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

Also, Ken Levine said that all cut content was cut for a reason and that it will not be appearing as DLC in the Season Pass.


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

Troy Baker's birthday is April Fool's Day. 

And holy crap, he's almost 40.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 1, 2013)

irrational crunch timed the editing of the game after e3 2011 after realizing they were too ambitious for the old consoles and were too unfocused with their vision of the final product. hence the heavy hitters being changed like siren turning into a thrice recycled ghost boys of silence only being in one part and song bird barely being in the game as well as other issues. its a familiar situation. its to irrrational and kens credit they were able to fix it up to be a great experience last second...albiet one not shown in the trailers. kens expert writing helped a lot.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 1, 2013)

Slice said:


> I have no answer to that.
> 
> To set the events in motion it was required for Booker to reach Columbia, that guy probably was one of the first variables that could have prevented him getting there so he had to be removed.
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



 Yeah I thought of that too, that that's what the deaths were.

I think you're right that he was just a variable that needed to be removed by the Luteces's, so that at the very least every booker could end up at the raffle.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 1, 2013)

*Raffle Scene with Georgy's Madre.*


*Spoiler*: __ 



*"Oh, you won the prize! What is it?... (realization)... David, this isn't nice. Why are you showing me this?"*

_lol Isn't it crazy that they put this in a game though?_
*
"I wasn't expecting that at all!"*

_"Now look, I can either hit the announcer guy or the couple."_

*Hit that sucker in the face! I mean, sorry, its your choice..."*




She had all she could stomach with the resulting cop/sky glider scene, but she told me to call her again when I found the Magic Girl.


----------



## Stumpy (Apr 1, 2013)

Gamespot interview with Ken Levine that came out about a week before the game released. Good so far if you can block out the background noise. First 11 minutes are worth it at least because he talks about religion in the game and elaborates a bit on that story that came out about the person who almost resigned from the team when they played the ending of the game.


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

Ken Levine said:
			
		

> The games tend to be a Rorschach [test] for people, and I’ve heard both sides of reaction [to the demo]. I had the displeasure of going to a white supremacist site that made a point of saying this game by “the Jew” Ken Levine was about killing white people. But then I went to this leftist site that said this is about discrediting leftists movements. Games, as I said, are a Rorschach, and I don’t want to be making games that are expressing a political or philosophical view.



Just finished reading . I know it's like three days old, so sue me.


----------



## Ciupy (Apr 1, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Then who shot him?



I think that 
*Spoiler*: __ 



the first Booker died due to lighthouse keeper being warned by Comstock that he will come.

So the Luteces disposed of the lighthouse keeper.

I think they "edited" the variables in the story until they got the right outcome as in Elizabeth being freed of her shackle and becoming omnipotent/omniscient and editing Comstock out of the multiverse,thus making sure that Columbia never existed,but erasing herself as well sadly.

Heck,the raffle itself could have been another case of where Booker was caught and killed,and so from that point on the Luteces always send a message not to pick the nr.77 ball..unfortunately that seems to be a constant and can't be avoided.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 1, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Hearing all these things about the Luteces makes everything make more sense, especially the heads and tails stuff, the lighthouse keeper, etc. I knew they were directly involved in the fixing of the space-time, what with guiding Booker and whatnot, but I didn't know how deep they were into it. That idea of Booker being "revived" and going through it all again every time he dies is also very interesting as well. The Luteces change things just enough so he doesn't actually die the next time and can be healed by Elizabeth so he can keep progressing. 

The #77 ball seems to be a constant, though. But I wonder what the Luteces had to change during the raffle to make sure that Booker wouldn't be killed by the police. It all happens so quickly, it seems like there isn't anything they could've changed. That is if he actually ever dies at all during the raffle. Since the #77 ball is a constant they may have just ignored trying to change it altogether. 

What I also found interesting near the end of the game is when they arrive in Rapture. If you go to where Jack gets his first Plasmid in Bioshock 1 it's already gone and there are no Splicers, which implies that Jack is already on his journey through Rapture (but it's impossible for Jack and Booker to meet), which also explains why the bathysphere is already there for you to use. A friend and I were discussing the link between Columbia and Rapture the other night.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 1, 2013)




----------



## Ciupy (Apr 1, 2013)

My final thoughts on the ending:



*Spoiler*: __ 



Especially the post-credits scene.

We know that God-Elizabeth says that the only constant was that Booker was going to go to that baptism and he could either reject it and become debt-ridden,child-seller Booker and our hero,or accept it and become Comstock right?

The only way to make sure that Comstock didn't exist was to destroy the pivotal moment of choice itself,killing Booker before he could make the choice and eliminating the very possibility of Comstock ever existing.

That unfortunately also kills God-Elizabeth along with Comstock and Columbia,but also all of her versions in the multiverse.

Not only that,but since Booker dies before the baptism choice,he never meets his wive,Anna DeWitt (yes the same woman as Anna Comstock in the Columbia timeline which ironically did give Booker a child which he named also Anna after she dies in chilbirth in the universe in which he rejects the baptism) and thus little Anna is never born at all.

Ouch.

So then,how can we fit the ending scene in all of this with Booker searching for an Anna that couldn't possible exist?

Was Elizabeth wrong and was the circle unbroken?

I don't think so..I think the baptism metaphorically washed away the sins Booker had with Elizabeth as the stand-in for God so to speak.

When God-Elizabeth kills Booker before the choice,she kills Comstock,she destroys Columbia,but most importantly she erases herself.

So how could she then stop Booker from becoming Comstock in the past and in all of the timelines since she never existed in the first place.

It's a paradox..a paradox that can only be solved by the simple fact that the universe transforms one variable into one constant true and valid:Booker always from that point on in the multiverse and across all timelines rejects the baptism,thus never creating the Comstock-Columbia-Elizabeth paradox.

The universe corrects itself,so to speak.

What we are left in the end is with a man that is full of regret,sure,full of debts,sure,but which still has little Anna in her crib and maybe even remembers the events of the game and is a much better man for it.

This is my view on the ending..


----------



## Slice (Apr 1, 2013)

Going to replay this soon trying to get the 1999 mode / dont use the vendor achievement. I usually suck at fps but i did alright on 'hard' so i guess its not impossible.


----------



## martryn (Apr 1, 2013)

*Spoiler*: _About Comstock as a prophet_ 



I realize that Comstock calls himself a prophet due to his control over space-time granted to himself via the Luteces.  What I don't understand is why he thought that his daughter had to sit on the throne, and why it was so important to take Anna from DeWitt and turn her into Elizabeth.  One explanation I read was that the angel of god that visited Comstock and told him to make a city in the sky, before he met Rosalind, was Elizabeth from the future, but how could a future Elizabeth, who hasn't been created yet, go back and tell her not-father to kidnap her and turn himself into her father?

Basically, where did Comstock get the idea of flying city, and why was it so important his seed sit on the throne?


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

@Death -


*Spoiler*: __ 



Maybe the sky-hook? Remember, when you first see one of the police officers with it, they react to it as a new and unique thing. One of the two asks how he could get one. So maybe they somehow altered things so that skyhooks were given out to the Founder police force so that it would be present when they grabbed Booker, and Booker - using his ever-present resourcefulness - utilized it to his advantage?

I'm definitely reading in to this way too much.




Just got back - got my Season Pass and actually got the Collector's Edition strategy guide for a total of 32 bucks. I didn't realize the CE guide comes with the key. pek


----------



## Zaru (Apr 1, 2013)

I must have done something wrong in this game. I'm usually decent in singleplayer FPS and I could "hardest mode" a couple of them (like FEAR, RtCW), but Infinite kicked my ass on Normal despite everyone saying it's too easy. (by that I mean that I died dozens of times, there's no real penalty though)

I just don't get how you could avoid taking damage all the time with enemies popping up everywhere and no way to avoid their first shots. I even maxed out my shield. Yet there would always be some cunt appearing out of nowhere hitting right through my entire shield from behind. Enemies could soak up a massive amount of damage.
I looted every nook and cranny of the levels and couldn't even afford half of the weapon upgrades, let alone the plasmid ones.


----------



## Naruto (Apr 1, 2013)

Got this game, started playing. Loving it.

Game freezes all over the place. Can't play it.

So sad at the moment


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

You definitely did something wrong, because on Normal two or three shots from a Carbine or Pistol would definitely be enough to kill normal enemies and one well-placed Shotgun blast killed them. Paired with the numerous vigor strategies...

Even Motorized Patriots (especially after you get Undertow), Firemen, and Crows go down easily enough. The only ones that sometimes gave me shit were Handymen and the Siren. Though most recently I had an easier time against the Siren by utilizing Return to Sender and the Hand Cannon.

Also...

>Elizabeth sees a guy electrocuted to death until his head pops. Nothing.
>Elizabeth sees Booker break someone's neck with the Sky Hood, "OH GOD!!!"


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 1, 2013)

Krory said:


> @Death -
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



That could be a possibility. We're given too little information to work with, so we just have to use what we have. Of course, this is assuming that the constant #77 ball ever meant Booker would die. But it does just seem... _too_ perfect. Too convenient. Surrounded by the police force no matter what happens? Here's this spinning, handheld death machine for you to fight your way out.

I wouldn't put it past the Luteces to do something like that.


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

Naruto said:


> Got this game, started playing. Loving it.
> 
> Game freezes all over the place. Can't play it.
> 
> So sad at the moment



That's horrible.  Guess I got lucky. Haven't had a single freeze on PC or 360 yet.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 1, 2013)

Admittedly, I died a lot even playing on Normal. I didn't really use a variety of guns whatsoever. I would use Murder of Crows fully upgraded and either the shotgun or carbine/machine gun. I would occasionally use Shock Jockey to keep Motorized Patriots and Handymen from wrecking my shit. But other than that, I mostly used the combo I mentioned above.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 1, 2013)

what version freezes? I feel my PS3 copy was perfect in that regard.. 


anyways, few days after finishing.. and I still think it's one of the best games ever


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

I died a few games but it was one of those games where I went out of control because of how the checkpoint and respawning system worked. It's like it was made for you to go and do stupid shit because you barely get punished, if at all.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 1, 2013)

I've actually asked my fiancee to draw her and I dressed as Elizabeth and Booker fleeing from Songbird at Monument Island as a birthday gift. Considering her skills, it's going to be glorious.

However, she wants to see the actual game first, so yeah. 

I am a patient man.


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

I wanted someone to draw me Lara x Sam for my birthday three days ago.  Never happened.


----------



## Zaru (Apr 1, 2013)

Krory said:


> You definitely did something wrong, because on Normal two or three shots from a Carbine or Pistol would definitely be enough to kill normal enemies and one well-placed Shotgun blast killed them. Paired with the numerous vigor strategies...
> 
> Even Motorized Patriots (especially after you get Undertow), Firemen, and Crows go down easily enough. The only ones that sometimes gave me shit were Handymen and the Siren. Though most recently I had an easier time against the Siren by utilizing Return to Sender and the Hand Cannon.



That's amusing, I just started a chapter in the latter half to check what my difficulty setting was. A normal enemy without any special appearance or weapons took 4 fucking (upgraded!) shotgun blasts to the chest until he died. (Of course, the unarmored policemen and vox populi earlier in the game usually died faster)

I refuse to believe that this is how normal mode is supposed to work.


----------



## Kaido (Apr 1, 2013)

I played for 1 minute-WORST GAME EVER!
EDIT: Just kidding, amazing game


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

Confirmed for glitched game?


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 1, 2013)

Hmm, that is weird, Zaru. Even the enemies near the end of the game (you know where), even though armored, would usually go down with one direct shotgun blast. They would go down even easier when they were all covered in crows after purchasing the upgrade where you do 50% (?) more damage when under the effect of Murder of Crows. 

But yeah, what Krory said is right for Normal mode.


----------



## Jena (Apr 1, 2013)

Zaru said:


> I just don't get how you could avoid taking damage all the time with enemies popping up everywhere and no way to avoid their first shots. I even maxed out my shield. Yet there would always be some cunt appearing out of nowhere hitting right through my entire shield from behind. Enemies could soak up a massive amount of damage.



Elizabeth can materialize cover for you and you can hide behind boxes and stuff. Also utilize the sky-lines. A lot of times during my playthrough I'd jump up there as enemies would appear. It's a good way to temporarily get out of the way if you need to recharge your health. Plus it's fun as hell to shoot people from the sky-line or jump down on them and fuck them up.


----------



## Slice (Apr 1, 2013)

Kaido King Of Beasts said:


> I played for 1 minute-WORST GAME EVER!



This is the saddest attempt to troll i have ever seen. I actually feel terrible for you 




On hard my fully upgraded Shotgun at point blank killed everyone not wearing the heavy armor in one shot. So there really seems to be a problem with your game Zaru.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 1, 2013)

back the in the day trolling was considered an art


----------



## Zaru (Apr 1, 2013)

How many of the upgrades could you people afford by the end of the game? Only a handful, or most of them?


----------



## Slice (Apr 1, 2013)

I maxed the Shotgun, the Sniper rifle, the Carbine, Murder of Crows, Possession, Bucking Bronco and the Firebomb one. Had enough money to get around two more upgrades near the end but saved the money.


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

I'll have to check what I have later, my brother is currently playing.


----------



## dragonbattousai (Apr 1, 2013)

So I finished the game on Medium and want to go back and play through it on a more difficult setting and collect the remaining items I missed first time around.  However, when I started replaying it on '99 Mode, I noticed I didn't have all my cash, so does that mean it isn't really a New Game Plus and I will have to get all the voxaphones I already got from the previous play through again?


----------



## Shock Therapy (Apr 1, 2013)

i 360 no scope all my enemies with the sniper


----------



## Jena (Apr 1, 2013)

Zaru said:


> How many of the upgrades could you people afford by the end of the game? Only a handful, or most of them?



Throughout the game, I bought:

-murder of crows upgrade
-maxed out shotgun upgrades
-maxed out machine gun upgrades
-possession upgrade

I definitely noticed I had more money at the end of the game then I did earlier. By the end I felt like I was swimming in money.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 1, 2013)

In the early parts of the game it's tedious getting money. They throw all these $1000 upgrades at you and you're like "B-But I only have $150..."


----------



## Zaru (Apr 1, 2013)

That I had constant money troubles despite hardly upgrading anything and looting everything with an interaction prompt and opening every lock I could find only reinforces my belief that something was wrong with my difficulty setting... oh well, had fun anyway.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 1, 2013)

I just watched the E3 2011 15 minutes of gameplay demo of BI for the first time. Holy crap, they went in a completely different direction. >__>


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 1, 2013)

yeah...and comstock in the 2010 trailer was a politian not a prophet


----------



## Aruarian (Apr 1, 2013)

The Lincoln head scene. 

I really wanted more happy-go-lucky scenes with Elizabeth.


----------



## Burke (Apr 1, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Another thing i didn't quite like in an otherwise perfect game, your first real fight with a handyman.
You're previewed them a few times, one violently interrupts you when you're about to reach Elizabeth, but the first time you actually fight one of em, you just walk outside into finkton, and there's one just there waiting to fight you. no surprise or buildup, its just there.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 1, 2013)

Finally beat it...


*Spoiler*: __ 



That Rapture scene at the end had me like  but the ending was sad.. in order to break the circle he had to literally kill himself aka have Elizabeth kill him which cease her existence... she never got to go to Paris


----------



## Aruarian (Apr 1, 2013)

Didn't watch the Epilogue, huh?


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

> RT @redkun: while playing Infinite I opened a "Pack of Almonds" to find a banana. Please correct this plot hole. -It's tears! (runs away)



Oh, Ken...


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 1, 2013)

I'm already excited for what the next Bioshock game may yield... if there is one at all.


----------



## Aruarian (Apr 1, 2013)

You're living it. 

Contains spoilers: 

Dunno if that was posted yet, but it's pretty cool.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 1, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Finally beat it...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


the ending is not like that. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



they killed comstocks reality. booker and annas reality was recreated with them never being seperated to begin with


----------



## Byrd (Apr 1, 2013)

Hangat?r said:


> Didn't watch the Epilogue, huh?



Yes I did


*Spoiler*: __ 



That version of Elizabeth cease to exist if you notice the scene where the older version of her gave the card to prevent Anna from becoming the Elizabeth you know... Anna basically becomes a different person so the version that travel with us, that lockpicked, that open tears cease to exist


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

So... a little silly theory about Elizabeth and her "wish-fulfillment"...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Do you think at some point Elizabeth _missed_ Songbird? I keep thinking about the scene when she lets the bee out through the tear. It just seems _too_ convenient that an _alternate reality_ Songbird shows up at that very moment. I mean maybe it saw the open tear and went for it... but part of me feels like maybe she yearned for Songbird even vaguely because it was all that she knew and wanted that familiarity again. So perhaps with her obvious wish-fulfillment abilities, she "summoned" him of sorts.


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Yes I did
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Instead, they get - presumably - a happy ending.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 1, 2013)

Krory said:


> So... a little silly theory about Elizabeth and her "wish-fulfillment"...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I would agree with you here. She may have grown to hate Songbird, but he and books are all she had until Booker came crashing through the ceiling. Considering how innocent and naive she is, she isn't exactly suited to giving up such a huge part of her life. She was never prepared mentally to give him up in any way whatsoever. Even though Songbird, if I recall, was equated to being almost like an "abusive husband". If that were the case, it's not farfetched to believe that Elizabeth developed Stockholm Syndrome, or something akin to it at least. In her mind she may hate him, but subconsciously she can't get rid of him.


----------



## Bleach (Apr 1, 2013)

I had money trouble until like like 2/3 of the way done. At that point I had bought all the upgrades I really wanted for guns so I just saved whatever I made and got the upgrades for Charge and Bucking Bronco cause that's all I used. Was kind of annoying needing so much money for the crow upgrades cause you could barely ever get enough for it.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 2, 2013)

Fucking shit, I found my perfect combo.

Shit's flawless.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

Damn.

75/80 Voxophones.  So close!


----------



## Byrd (Apr 2, 2013)




----------



## vanhellsing (Apr 2, 2013)

so what is your favorite vigor and what in you opinion the most useless of them ? 

obviously my favorite is murder of crows its a great crowd control especially full upgraded  :amazed and Imo the most useless is return to sender because it comes too late in the game

end game spoilers

*Spoiler*: __ 



I liked the rapture cameo but songbird should have more importance or at least make him a boss and the ending I didn't like it that much it should be multiple endings , but that's my silly opinion


----------



## vegitabo (Apr 2, 2013)

I think there was at least two points in the game where u can exploit dead bodies for infinite cash. One was the graveyard, and I forgot the other one. It takes forever though running back and forth, lol


*Spoiler*: __ 



I like how elizabeth said any choice is better than no choice at all. However, with infinite realities, choices don't matter anymore since all of them are being made simultaneously.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

I guess I didn't notice how long the credits were the first time around because I undoubtedly just zoned out from the ending.


----------



## StrawHatCrew (Apr 2, 2013)

Krory said:


> I guess I didn't notice how long the credits were the first time around because I undoubtedly just zoned out from the ending.



That and you were probably serenaded by the duet from Courtnee Draper (Elizabeth) and Troy Baker (Booker). I was at least..


----------



## Rios (Apr 2, 2013)

During the credits I was walking around doing other stuff and waiting for them to end. I hate what they are doing with this true ending right after the credits, they should really stop forcing me to read names/waste time.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

It's not a "true ending" - it's just pointing out the obvious. Because some people are too dense to get it.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

So am I the only one that wants to see more of Preston E. Downs in DLC?


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

Or maybe one of the DLC is...


*Spoiler*: __ 



The point of view of the Booker DeWitt that died a martyr, helping the Vox Populi.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 2, 2013)

vanhellsing said:


> so what is your favorite vigor and what in you opinion the most useless of them ?
> 
> obviously my favorite is murder of crows its a great crowd control especially full upgraded  :amazed and Imo the most useless is return to sender because it comes too late in the game
> 
> ...



I find it particularly useful using the shock traps with a possession combo. 

Fuckers don't even know where to run after that and I just walk away like a badass.

If any live, i take out the shotgun. 

Useless is the inferno bombs... Idk, I just don't like it, but I could see how others would be able to.


----------



## Zaru (Apr 2, 2013)

Krory said:


> Or maybe one of the DLC is...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



That actually sounds like a possibility, but I wonder what it adds to the story.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 2, 2013)

A different point of view.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 2, 2013)

I think it's very likely we'll play as Vox!Booker, or at least see how that Booker died. 

As for favorite combos, crows and carbine all day. So easy to setup choke points with traps.


----------



## martryn (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm hoping none of the DLC deals with the Vox.  I fucking hate those assholes.  I can't believe I began the game kinda feeling sorry for them.


----------



## Zaru (Apr 2, 2013)

They kinda had a good cause and you sympathized with them because they were discriminated, but then


*Spoiler*: __ 



they slaughtered everyone and their leader was a crazy murderous bitch


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 2, 2013)

I think it'd be interesting to see how much of the Vox being horrible is Daisy and how much of it is just Columbians being crazy.


----------



## Stunna (Apr 2, 2013)

Rios said:


> During the credits I was walking around doing other stuff and waiting for them to end. I hate what they are doing with this true ending right after the credits, they should really stop forcing me to read names/waste time.


I was sitting there enjoying the music.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah, I don't think the game handled their establishment or build-up too well. The most dramatic part of dealing with the Vox was when 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Elizabeth stabbed Daisy through the back in order to save the kid.




I mean, after a certain part in the game... 
*Spoiler*: __ 



everything goes to shit and looks like it too. The Vox ruin goddamn everything and act even worse than the Founders.  If their purpose was to garner sympathy, it failed miserably against everyone that wasn't a minority... considering they were basically killing anyone that was white just because they felt like it. They all turned out to be assholes.




I would've liked to have been involved in more Founder vs Vox battles. And the sky shouldn't have been turned to shit for half the game.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 2, 2013)

Black ass mother fuckers them vox.


----------



## Bleach (Apr 2, 2013)

Krory said:


> It's not a "true ending" - it's just pointing out the obvious. Because some people are too dense to get it.



I doubt most people would be able to assume the ending scene after the credits happens without them actually showing you....

Also, I love that expression Elizabeth gives. So awesome.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 2, 2013)

the vox were intended by ken to be seen as people who had a noble cause in the outset but were eventually turned to extremists who killed and plundered without exception. bioshock deals with extremes and questioning your side. vox were as much a deconstruction of leftist revolutionaries as the founders were a deconstruction on rightist nationalists. your not supposed to "like" either of them...just think about them. some may be stupid and call this an anti america or anti labor game. i personally call it an anti stupid game.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

Extra scenes have been occurring after credits for ages now, and not all of them are shown just by skipping the credits. This is nothing new and it should be anticipated. And again, this one is just spelling out something obvious for the players that can't put the pieces together.

And I can't help but wonder if anything with the Vox could have gone differently if it were not for Elizabeth's wish-fulfillment tampering. Or perhaps Vox!Booker led to a more bloodthirsty and vengeful group of self-proclaimed "freedom fighters."


----------



## Rios (Apr 2, 2013)

I tried to play as a pacifist, I really did. But then I stole some money from a broken vending machine and the whole black people district started shooting at me. Why so trigger happy, poor people


----------



## Stunna (Apr 2, 2013)

Didn't take much to set them off.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

This is why you don't try to steal from what other people are trying to steal from.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 2, 2013)

I shoot everyone I see on sight.

Women, men, kids, innocents: I don't give a _fuck._


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah, the poor district was paranoid. I was like several yards away from a gear box, and they were all like, "no stealing", so I just started to walk away (since I knew the area would be cleared out at some point later and I could just grab it then) and then they were all like, "THIEF!!!" I just did what you said, morons, how could I steal something by moving further away from it?!

Anyway, finished the game last night, absolutely incredible all the way through. I think it warrants a few more playthroughs for me to consider it my favorite game ever, but it's definitely my favorite story (especially the final 15 minutes) in a video game. Really the only downside is that I can't imagine Ken Levine topping himself with the next installment (but if he does, massive kudos will be added to the massive amount I'm already giving him).

Booker was a great character, Elizabeth was an excellent character, and the Luteces are awesome incarnate. Voice acting and music was top-notch, AI and animation were excellent (had like two frame-jumps occur with Elizabeth early in the game, never happened again for the rest), and combat was pretty fun. Enemy design wasn't quite as interesting as Rapture's, but the battles did feel more challenging (the shield helped, but First Aid Kits from 1 and 2 were more protective in comparison).

Really curious to find what I missed when I play through it again. I was only 8/10 on each of the health/shield/salt upgrades, and was still missing a dozen or so of the Kinetoscopes (not sure about the audio diaries but definitely didn't have all of them). I checked extensively in every new area for everything to find (only thing I know I missed was the first side-quest where you got a key to a nearby house, I looked everywhere but couldn't find the house), but I didn't use the sky-hooks that much so I guessed a lot of the stuff I missed can be found via skyhook. The ending itself wouldn't have even made much sense if I hadn't found certain audio diaries, so Adam Sessler nailed it when he said this is NOT a game you just rush through.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

I don't think there's enough Fusions to max out all three. I thought I read there's like 24, 25 of them which should be enough to max two and get about half way on the other. Only way you could be able to max them all is if you have that Early Bird Special DLC or whatever it's called, which gives you five bonus infusions.

I finished with 75/80 Voxophones. 

And the keys you found are actually for chests - they're big, blue chests. The first building has a skyline that you should be able to break into (the building whose roof you are on top of when you are first taught about the Skyline Strike).


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 2, 2013)

Cool, thanks for the info. 

Actually, in terms of future Bioshock installments: 


*Spoiler*: __ 



I suppose we can always expect a lighthouse that leads to a city? I took that as a meta way of referring to how many writers have certain elements/themes/character types/etc. that seem to show up in most if not all of their works. Like Stephen King's obsession with Maine, for example. It'll be interesting to see how they'll fine new ways to do the "lighthouse -> city" thing in the future.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

It's pretty great how that last half of the final verse of _Will The Circle Be Unbroken?_ fits so extremely well with the story.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Final verse being:

_One by one their
Seats were emptied
And one by one
They went away

*Now the family
Is parted
Will it be
Complete one day?*_


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

with Arthur Gies, two other people from Polygon I don't care about, Adam Sessler of Rev3 Games and Ben Kuchera of the Penny Arcade Report. They discuss the game and some nifty stuff. It's a nice watch.


----------



## Quiet Storm (Apr 2, 2013)

I juat beat the game on hard. Now playing 1999 mode. Very challenging but rewarding.

*Spoiler*: __ 



Did anyone else feel dirty when you found out that Elizabeth is your duaghter?...if you know what I mean.


----------



## Bleach (Apr 2, 2013)

Kalep said:


> I juat beat the game on hard. Now playing 1999 mode. Very challenging but rewarding.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Oh yea.... way too dirty. Was hoping they'd be shipped in the end but of course that kinda destroyed that but I was fine with her being his daughter lol.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Considering he's almost forty and she's nineteen, the thought didn't really cross my mind.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

Also...


*Spoiler*: _Regarding Comstock_ 



Someone made mention about how Comstock looks so much older when the timeline states he should only be 38 still. A Voxophone indicates a theory from Rosalind Lutece that the machines that also made Comstock sterile could have afflicted him with a kind of cancer that subsequently caused him to age significantly.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 2, 2013)

Kalep said:


> I juat beat the game on hard. Now playing 1999 mode. Very challenging but rewarding.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Tbh I really liked her personality and felt that while smart, this was an innocent girl so I didn't really think of her that way, I guess the devs/writers of the game really must have done their job well because I really just wanted to protect/help her, especially when its revealed she is your daughter and how adorable she looks as a baby

I found it really sad that booker had to sell her but found it heartbreaking when he tries to take her back and she reaches out and loses her pinky , curse my soft heart


----------



## Quiet Storm (Apr 2, 2013)

Bleach said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yea.... way too dirty. Was hoping they'd be shipped in the end but of course that kinda destroyed that but I was fine with her being his daughter lol.


Yeah i'm fine with it too. It's actually better that way imo


Krory said:


> Also...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Regarding Comstock_
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



What I always wonder is how Comstock still retained his memories going through different universes like when he took Anna.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

*Spoiler*: _About Elizabeth_ 



I didn't feel the need to "protect" her because the game made it evident - even with a massive blaring message in the middle of the screen - that Elizabeth can handle her own shit. I did _care_ about her but at a point it felt more like she was protecting _me_ just as much.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

Kalep said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> What I always wonder is how Comstock still retained his memories going through different universes like when he took Anna.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Perhaps a case-basis sort of thing? Maybe Booker just didn't have the willpower or conviction to remember whereas Comstock did? Hell, maybe it was just luck. I'm not sure there's any definitive answers but what's great is that none of the possible answers really seem out of the question.


----------



## Quiet Storm (Apr 2, 2013)

Dr.Douchebag said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I know that last 15 minutes of the game tore me up, thank god for the after credits scene lol


----------



## Bleach (Apr 2, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



This part tore me up the most



When they slow everything down when the pinky gets left in that world, it's like they know you need that time to take in what the fuck just happened. This pretty much describes the last 10 minutes


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 2, 2013)

Krory said:


> *Spoiler*: _About Elizabeth_
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't feel the need to "protect" her because the game made it evident - even with a massive blaring message in the middle of the screen - that Elizabeth can handle her own shit. I did _care_ about her but at a point it felt more like she was protecting _me_ just as much.




*Spoiler*: __ 



I didn't mean physically, its just that guys like booker have fought in wars and seen its horrors first hand and how evil people can be, Elizabeth when she starts out is fairly naive (not saying she isn't intelligent) so personally when I initially met her I had hoped (of course I knew it would never happen) that she wouldn't get to see too much of the shitty side of life too soon. Just simple stuff like walking past the bathrooms and she asks 'why are there separate bathrooms for colored people?'  just really drive home how isolated from the world she has been. But to her credit she didn't freak out upon finding chen lin's tortured body and actually killed to save a child (ofc she freaked out then but most people would too).

She's def one of my fav chars in a long while,rarely do games, especially fps's make you care for someone other than you. When watching the trailer I thought she would be a tag along and would constantly have escort missions but she is vital to gameplay (helped me out of numerous tough spots,gives me  monies) and story


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm going to use animated gifs to sum up the last bit of _BioShock Infinite_ (at least this is how I feel).


*Spoiler*: __ 



*You find Comstock and he claims Booker knows about Elizabeth's finger... and Booker gets a nosebleed as he says he doesn't know*


*Elizabeth realizes "CAGE" is a song and you get to control Songbird to just destroy a couple Zeppelins and take out the Siphon*


*Elizabeth becomes God*


*Elizabeth teleports you to Rapture with Songbird dying underwater, and a dead Big Daddy with a crying Little Sister in the background*


*You find out the stars themselves are lighthouses, all different realities and timelines, and you see other Bookers and Elizabeths playing out their part. Then you remember the lighthouse at the beginning of the game*


*Even if predictable, you find out Elizabeth is Booker's daughter that he gave away to Comstock to settling his gambling debts and she lost a finger while going through a portal... and Comstock himself is one possible outcome after Booker sought to be baptized and tried to cleanse himself of the atrocities he committed...*


*...and Elizabeth knew all of this since she became God and she was just leading you through the motions that needed to be done to get you to the truth...*


*...and then they drown Booker of his own free will in the very lake he was to be baptized in to stop Comstock from ever having been "born"*


*And then you sit through the entire credits to see the final sequence*


*And then you go online to discuss the game and everywhere you go the majority are like...*


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

And meanwhile, the people who don't look into it as much as I do are more like...


----------



## Stunna (Apr 2, 2013)

My expression was literally the same as Simon's.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 2, 2013)

Krory said:


> And meanwhile, the people who don't look into it as much as I do are more like...



Man, fuck those people.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 2, 2013)

Krory basically has the expessions down pack


*Spoiler*: __ 




I did have that wtf moment when we went to Rapture.. that blew me away


----------



## Jena (Apr 2, 2013)

Krory said:


> I'm going to use animated gifs to sum up the last bit of _BioShock Infinite_ (at least this is how I feel)....


----------



## Quiet Storm (Apr 2, 2013)

I just thought of this


*Spoiler*: __ 



When Booker gets a second chance to raise Anna. They move to paris years later where "Elizabeth" always wanted to go and live happliy ever after....until World War 1 starts


----------



## Stumpy (Apr 2, 2013)

47 minute spoiler fest with some of my favorite critic/games press peoples. ;3


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

Posted that last page but no one cared then.  But yeah, that was an awesome watch and had some really interesting moments.


----------



## Bleach (Apr 2, 2013)

Kalep said:


> I just thought of this
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Maybe the war in that world didn't start until years later . So many possibilities!


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

Or maybe...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Booker started the war in that world. DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUN.


----------



## Bleach (Apr 2, 2013)

Krory said:


> Or maybe...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



And Elizabeth eventually becomes a Nazi


----------



## Stunna (Apr 2, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



wtf**


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 2, 2013)

Krory's feels post summed up my feels perfectly. It's like we're on the same wavelength.

Also, damn... I thought of really good stuff at work today, like questions and theories, but now I can't remember any of them...


----------



## Stunna (Apr 2, 2013)

Happens to the best of us, Death.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

It's official.

Ken Levine has unified a people.

_Oh my God, he's starting a cult._


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 2, 2013)

I've decided I'm gonna get the Bioshock Infinite board game. It's too awesome to pass up.


----------



## Stunna (Apr 2, 2013)

There's a board game?


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 2, 2013)




----------



## Jena (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm getting the art book for sure. The designs in this game were so beautiful.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 2, 2013)

I got the little art book that came with the Songbird edition. It smells good.  And has some really awesome designs in it. But I'm also gonna get the big art book.

I wanted to get the limited edition strategy guide just for the sake of getting the Freedom Key that comes with it, but I dunno.

I mean, that Freedom Key on my Murder of Crows keychain would be pretty cool...


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

I got the limited edition guide (and the Season Pass for free, YAY). pek


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 2, 2013)

I might just have to break down and buy that strategy guide.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

You know you wanna.

By the by, part one of Adam Sessler's _Spoiled Games_ with _BioShock Infinite_ will be up on Thursday, he says.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 2, 2013)

I do wanna!  I think Amazon has it for, like... $20 or something.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

Looks like twenty-two and change.


----------



## Quiet Storm (Apr 2, 2013)

Ya'll don't need no strategy guide, We have the internet. :amazed

EDIT: nvm just read that the limited edition guide has the Key. Worth it.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 2, 2013)

Rarely do games come out like this and pushes you to think... I cannot get the ending out my head


----------



## Quiet Storm (Apr 2, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Rarely do games come out like this and pushes you to think... I cannot get the ending out my head



Not even Inception made me think this hard. lol


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm still thinking about the ending even now. I really need to play through the whole series again. I haven't played any of the games more than once! I really need to.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

I try to collect limited edition guides. I like have them.

They look nice.

@Byrd - I was just thinking about that as I'm anticipating trying to do my review. I don't think any game has caused me to have this degree of conversations and realizations with other human beings.


----------



## Bleach (Apr 2, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Rarely do games come out like this and pushes you to think... I cannot get the ending out my head



We know how ya feel bro. I don't think there's been a game to do this to me since like.. ME2.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 2, 2013)

I need to replay the first one

Elizabeth is probably one of the best heroes I've seen


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

I like how people have asked Ken Levine when they'll do a female lead in a BioShock game.

And he says, "We're actually working on a concept now" and will post to a picture of Elizabeth.

It's amazing because in the start she personifies this really helpless princess-in-the-tower Disney character trope and it just goes somewhere completely fucking out there. It goes to show that to make a perfect female character you don't _need_ to make her tough or badass. Not that this doesn't work... but...

I don't know, my brain just froze because I started thinking about lighthouses again.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 2, 2013)

I don't know how people can't see that Elizabeth was a great female lead. Just because you played as Booker doesn't mean Elizabeth wasn't the lead. >__> The girl doesn't need to be doing all the guy stuff just to be considered the lead. The girl did her own things in her own way and did them magnificently.


----------



## Jena (Apr 2, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> I don't know how people can't see that Elizabeth was a great female lead. Just because you played as Booker doesn't mean Elizabeth wasn't the lead. >__> The girl doesn't need to be doing all the guy stuff just to be considered the lead. The girl did her own things in her own way and did them magnificently.



She grows the most between them. Yes, Booker changes as the game progresses but it's Elizabeth who has to discover who she is and develop her own agency. We actually see her world perspective grow and change, and I don't just mean that she literally 
*Spoiler*: __ 



becomes omnipotent


 at the end of the game, but how throughout the game her views on people, places, and conflicts change.

Booker does this as well, but the primary change comes _after_ Elizabeth's change and she's the one who has to clue Booker in on what's happening.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 2, 2013)

I loved the way she interacts with the environment... I actually laugh when she went up to a homeless man and stare him straight in the face like he was some object


----------



## Stumpy (Apr 2, 2013)

Krory said:


> Posted that last page but no one cared then.  But yeah, that was an awesome watch and had some really interesting moments.


Doh, I had skimmed the page, but missed your post. I should have known though because you are that person who also follows Arthur on Twitter.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

How long you think before it's safe to have spoilerific sets?  Maybe then I'll take an _Infinite_ set.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 2, 2013)

I'd say... give it another week. Or two.

If people haven't played it by then, it's their fault.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

Stumpy said:


> Doh, I had skimmed the page, but missed your post. I should have known though because you are that person who also follows Arthur on Twitter.



It's all gravy. It's something that deserves reposting anyways. It was really great watching that, I liked hearing about all the other symbolism that I didn't pick up on (that I probably should have) that they spoke of.

In case you didn't see my other post (or Adam Sessler's tweet), on Thursday part one of his _Spoiled Games_ on _BioShock Infinite_ will be going live. They've only done one other one so far I think, and it was on _DmC: Devil May Cry_ but it's kind of the same premise - a round-table of sorts with two other random people where they talk about everything about a game.


----------



## Jena (Apr 2, 2013)

Krory said:


> How long you think before it's safe to have spoilerific sets?  Maybe then I'll take an _Infinite_ set.



For games, I tend to wait 3-4 weeks after the game's release before I start getting spoilerific.


----------



## Bleach (Apr 2, 2013)

I love how Elizabeth was able to toss you coins from anywhere as long as she was partially visible. At one point I could only see her eyes and she still tossed me a coin


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 2, 2013)

Jena said:


> She grows the most between them. Yes, Booker changes as the game progresses but it's Elizabeth who has to discover who she is and develop her own agency. We actually see her world perspective grow and change, and I don't just mean that she literally
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



Exactly. I sometimes wonder if people ever think past the "powerful, shoot-em-up, badass and tough" stereotype for a main character in a first person game that involves any kind of gun use. I'm glad Booker wasn't that kind of guy. He was one of those "I've seen the world, and it looks like shit" realist kind of guys, who only did what was necessary to survive yet still had a beating heart that made him feel regretful and anguished about the things he's done. But he mostly stays that way during the whole game, the only major thing that changes about him being the relationship he develops with Elizabeth, at least until the very end. Meanwhile, Elizabeth grows and develops during the entire game and we can see the transition she makes into becoming a completely new person.


----------



## Quiet Storm (Apr 2, 2013)

Even though Infinite was a masterpiece. there are a few minor complaints that I have with it.


*Spoiler*: __ 



1. not enough skyline fights imo
2. I was kinda disapointed that you fight the siren and see the boys of silence in only one level
3. I thought the song bird was a bit underused




Other than that the game is perfect.


----------



## lathia (Apr 2, 2013)

Man this shit is definitely hard (might restart on normal). It's been ages since I've played a FPS. On top of that they take away your money when you die!? I'm an RPG fan... that defeats the purpose of scouting for treasure .


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 2, 2013)

Kalep said:


> Even though Infinite was a masterpiece. there are a few minor complaints that I have with it.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



My complaints are basically the same, except I also wish...


*Spoiler*: __ 



That Columbia didn't look like a trash heap for half the game. I mean, I understand why, but it all just felt too sudden.


----------



## Quiet Storm (Apr 2, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> My complaints are basically the same, except I also wish...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



True. I didn't expect  the War between The Vox and the Founders would lay waste to the city so quickly.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

In the link Stumpy and I posted, they spoke of how Booker talked so much about the things he did, these horrible things, and how much they affected him... then he would just go around shooting people in the face and making their heads blow-up and ripping off their face with a skyhook like it was some sort of bad thing.

Although I didn't think of it at the time, thinking of it now I see it more as he views himself as still a bad person. He is, without any real doubt, selfish in this regard. It's not until later he starts to care about Elizabeth - for a while she's just a means to an end. The reason all the violence doesn't seem so disjointed with his guilt-ridden persona to me is because I never got the impression that he moved past it. Probably much like how he incurred gambling debts, it is perhaps a habit he cannot kick, something he can't control of himself even though he hates and loathes that part of him. Not that he's a serial killer who has to go around killing everyone he sees... but when it comes down to it, it's something already in his blood. It's almost like this, "I'm already damned anyway, so why not do what needs to be done?"

Not unlike when...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Booker says he will kill Comstock himself, as if he's already completely gone. It's something he does so much and one more body doesn't mean anything to him, except to spare Elizabeth having to go through it again like she did with Daisy.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

Also, the same video I think puts it perfectly my feelings on Songbird.


----------



## Bleach (Apr 2, 2013)

My complaints pretty much have to do with how oblivious Booker was at times...


*Spoiler*: __ 




See's picture of false prophet with mark on hand same as him? Yea no one will notice that.
Get's the warning letter from Luterece about #77 but still keeps it.
Still believes in getting Fitzroy her guns for far too long. Even after going through tears.




Minor but still


----------



## Stumpy (Apr 2, 2013)

Krory said:


> Also, the same video I think puts it perfectly my feelings on Songbird.


Yes. They brought up the same thing we have all talked about how it was silly how little impact Songbird really had on things, but then they also pointed out...


*Spoiler*: __ 



...that Irrational had the restraint to avoid the obvious choice of making Songbird a late game boss. Instead they did more interesting things with him.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 2, 2013)

Kalep said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> True. I didn't expect  the War between The Vox and the Founders would lay waste to the city so quickly.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Neither did I. I missed the bright, blue skies. 






Krory said:


> In the link Stumpy and I posted, they spoke of how Booker talked so much about the things he did, these horrible things, and how much they affected him... then he would just go around shooting people in the face and making their heads blow-up and ripping off their face with a skyhook like it was some sort of bad thing.
> 
> Although I didn't think of it at the time, thinking of it now I see it more as he views himself as still a bad person. He is, without any real doubt, selfish in this regard. It's not until later he starts to care about Elizabeth - for a while she's just a means to an end. The reason all the violence doesn't seem so disjointed with his guilt-ridden persona to me is because I never got the impression that he moved past it. Probably much like how he incurred gambling debts, it is perhaps a habit he cannot kick, something he can't control of himself even though he hates and loathes that part of him. Not that he's a serial killer who has to go around killing everyone he sees... but when it comes down to it, it's something already in his blood. It's almost like this, "I'm already damned anyway, so why not do what needs to be done?"
> 
> ...



This is very interesting. It's kind of crazy to think that... 
*Spoiler*: __ 



when Booker goes through with the baptism, he's born again but still just remains a serial killer, except now he does it in the name of the Lord. And when he doesn't go through with the baptism, it's (probably) because Booker feels he's past redemption anyway and dipping himself in water won't change who he is or what he's done (like he says at the beginning of the game), which is very correct in an almost demented sort of way. Even when he is baptized and becomes Comstock he doesn't really change, only his means and motivation change. He's still a serial killer, but as Comstock he thinks he's able to justify it... which would be the key difference between them. Booker is unable to get over the things he's done and just says "I'm damned anyway, so who cares?", while Comstock is able to justify and get over the things he's done (and continues to do) by taking all the blame off himself and acting as a messenger of God.


----------



## Sotei (Apr 2, 2013)

So, is Elizabeth just a backpack with tits that follows you around and tosses shit at you?


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 2, 2013)

Do not talk about the Lamb that way!


----------



## Jena (Apr 2, 2013)

Sotei said:


> So, is Elizabeth just a backpack with tits that follows you around and tosses shit at you?


----------



## Byrd (Apr 2, 2013)

Sotei said:


> So, is Elizabeth just a backpack with tits that follows you around and tosses shit at you?



Actually she is escorting you around... you are dead weight


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Actually she is escorting you around... you are dead weight



>Constantly run out of health, salts, and ammo


----------



## Bleach (Apr 2, 2013)

Yea cause she could have rescued herself in the beginning amirite?


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

Correction:


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

Bleach said:


> Yea cause she could have rescued herself in the beginning amirite?



She already did in one reality.


----------



## Sotei (Apr 2, 2013)

I haven't played the game and have no idea when I'll buy it but from what I've been reading, she seems like a glorified infinite inventory backpack that gives you the shit you need when you're low on shit. Outside of the story, she seems to just be, a backpack? 

So, honestly, outside of the plot, is she just a backpack?


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2013)

Considering she doesn't carry anything - for starters - no. She is not a backpack.


----------



## Quiet Storm (Apr 3, 2013)

Yeah lets ignore the facts she can open tears to help you in battle.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

Points out enemies to you in battle to give you a heads up (the important ones - like Handymen, Crows/Zealots, Firemen, Patriots or even Snipers or Rocket enemies) while also giving a helpful icon floating above their head so you can keep track of them.

Also outside of battle she can pick locks for you to get access to certain places or unlock safes.

She will also point out items such a voxophones, food, or lockpicks for you outside of battle.


----------



## Stumpy (Apr 3, 2013)

Sotei said:


> I haven't played the game and have no idea when I'll buy it but from what I've been reading, she seems like a glorified infinite inventory backpack that gives you the shit you need when you're low on shit. Outside of the story, she seems to just be, a backpack?
> 
> So, honestly, outside of the plot, is she just a backpack?


Honestly, outside of the plot, isn't Booker just a walking gun?

That's not really the same because you play as Booker, I guess. She gives you shit in combat and then she opens tears for you. She does a ton of other stuff in scripted moments of course though. If you watch old gameplay videos from a few years ago there were clear plans for more interesting things for Liz to do, but for whatever reason they did not work out in the final product.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 3, 2013)

1999 Mode.... not as tough as I thought it would be.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

That Skyline-invuln Gear is hax.


----------



## Burke (Apr 3, 2013)

Stumpy said:


> Honestly, outside of the plot, isn't Booker just a walking gun?
> 
> That's not really the same because you play as Booker, I guess. She gives you shit in combat and then she opens tears for you. She does a ton of other stuff in scripted moments of course though. If you watch old gameplay videos from a few years ago there were clear plans for more interesting things for Liz to do, but for whatever reason they did not work out in the final product.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 3, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



the part where the luteces are on the piano, wait till they finish their convo and disappear and then look at elizabeth ,her wtf expression is priceless


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 3, 2013)

Sotei said:


> I haven't played the game and have no idea when I'll buy it but from what I've been reading, she seems like a glorified infinite inventory backpack that gives you the shit you need when you're low on shit. Outside of the story, she seems to just be, a backpack?
> 
> So, honestly, outside of the plot, is she just a backpack?



She is vital to gameplay she can open tears which can call in allies or help you gain a tactical advantage aside from supplies


----------



## Bleach (Apr 3, 2013)

Krory said:


> She already did in one reality.




*Spoiler*: __ 




We could say that about anything though I guess since there are infinite realities. Realities where she couldn't have escaped without Booker, realities where she did, realities where she dies and so on and so forth. 

I still don't quite understand how killing Booker at the baptism stopped anything cause of the infinite reality thing.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm guessing that there must be a single base memory that spawns off "child" memories, for a lack of a better term. Booker was killed in the base memory where he became Comstock. Because the base memory was destroy, those child memories were also destroyed. There are infinite realities where Booker could do a number of things but they all must come from something. There has to be a start. I imagine the infinite realities involving Comstock were bred from _that_ particular start.


----------



## Bleach (Apr 3, 2013)

Krory said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing that there must be a single base memory that spawns off "child" memories, for a lack of a better term. Booker was killed in the base memory where he became Comstock. Because the base memory was destroy, those child memories were also destroyed. There are infinite realities where Booker could do a number of things but they all must come from something. There has to be a start. I imagine the infinite realities involving Comstock were bred from _that_ particular start.




*Spoiler*: __ 



That seems to make the most sense I suppose. It's just weird to think of there being a start when it's infinite


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

*Spoiler*: _Something interesting in Fink-Town_


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

Also...

Mind-numbingly accurate quote about the current situation in Columbia when Booker first arrives, heard in ambient conversation/dialogue.

“Only four flavors? What’s wrong with good old vanilla?”


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 3, 2013)

Havent played the game yet. So Elizabeth and Booker are supposed to be lovers or something?
Does this game have multiple endings? is there a happy ending, sad and bad one?


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

No. They are not lovers.

And no. There's only one ending for the game... really... sort of.


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 3, 2013)

Krory said:


> No. They are not lovers.
> 
> And no. There's only one ending for the game... really... sort of.



WHa?! o_O WHY the fck no?
fck man... I am not gonna ask no more cause I dont wanna get spoiled but. I must say I was expecting him wanting to rescue his lover from the clutches of a giant big daddy bear.

Oh well, It was nice while it lasted.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 3, 2013)

booker and lizs relationship is beautiful and does turn to love eventually...just not the kind you think damned perverts   its those ppls fault for rule34ing that shit before the game came out sez i


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 3, 2013)

^^^

They changed it, this is a very different game from the one they presented at 2011. There they where supposed to be lovers and the game was going to be much darker in the setting with the lonely atmosphere that the bioshock games have.

This thing just ended up being cliche with the over used parent and daughter relationship.

People spoiled me the game without me ever having the chance of playing it, now I honestly dont even feel like touching it at all.


----------



## martryn (Apr 3, 2013)

> I must say I was expecting him wanting to rescue his lover from the clutches of a giant big daddy bear.



I was sorta expecting the same thing.  The game disappointed me due to the development changes that were made over the course of this last year.



> They changed it, this is a very different game from the one they presented at 2011. There they where supposed to be lovers and the game was going to be much darker in the setting with the lonely atmosphere that the bioshock games have.



That's what I keep saying.  

The game, as presented a couple of years ago, showed a savage mockery of a city in decline, with a populous completely enthralled in a perverted shadow of turn-of-the-century America.  Walking around the city felt dangerous, as it honestly gave the impression of lawlessness, decadence, and insanity.  It felt like Rapture in the sky.

Instead, the city looks like paradise for the chosen few who fit the description and can ignore the savage undertones.  Technological marvels.  You walk into and out of stores without the least bit of fear at the beginning of the game, and even later on.  In Bioshock, there was an ever present fear that something was going to jump out at you, or that things weren't what they seemed.  In Infinite, the game felt more like an adventure story and mystery, without any of the atmosphere of the earlier game.

And all that would be fine if it weren't marketed as a completely different game than what we received.  I saw a game advertised that had heavy cooperation between Elizabeth and the protagonist.  I saw a more liberal use of vigors.  I saw the insanity that was the original Bioshock.  I saw Songbird in all it's glory, and I was terrified of him, something I got over pretty quick when it became obvious he wasn't going to be present for most of the game.  The game feels unrealized.  It feels like it was mostly scrapped and then restructured for whatever reason at the last minute.  It feels like some new bigwig stepped in with these ridiculous plot ideas, and the actual plot was replaced by this new one.

Again, I don't think the game was bad, but the longer it's been since I finished it, the less respect I have for the game as I remember all the things I was looking forward to and never received.  I bought it because of the hype, but I believe a lot of the praise, while not undeserved, might be taking it a bit far.


----------



## steveht93 (Apr 3, 2013)

I'm loving this game. It's currently #5 on my list of favourite games this generation.


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 3, 2013)

There was no possible way they could extend those vertical slices shown in '10 and '11 to a whole game.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 3, 2013)

Bleach said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



All of those infinite realities were spawned by the defining baptism moment, namely because of Comstock, because he started tinkering with the quantum space-time technology. As a result, Anna (Elizabeth) was given space-time powers, and then shit got really wonky. 

But when Comstock gets killed by the baptism moment being killed, there goes any chance of the quantum tech being developed in the same manner. Even if Booker still becomes Comstock in the future due to some other reason (according to the multiverse theory, there will always be a chance that Booker becomes Comstock), he still won't be able to develop the quantum tech. The only reason the quantum tear tech was even developed was because Rosalind and Richard Lutece were experimenting on the same exact atom at the same exact time in two different universes. What happens if that moment is off-set by even a second? No quantum tear tech, ever. However, also according to the multiverse theory... there should be a universe where they do meet and develop the quantum tear tech, and there should be a universe where Comstock exists and all that happens... shit really starts to get wonky when you think too hard about it like I have. There just must have been something about that baptism where destroying it had such an impact that any universe in which any of this possible was destroyed altogether. It seems unlikely that God-Elizabeth wouldn't cover her bases completely.


----------



## Stumpy (Apr 3, 2013)




----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 3, 2013)

Suigetsu said:


> ^^^
> 
> They changed it, this is a very different game from the one they presented at 2011. There they where supposed to be lovers and the game was going to be much darker in the setting with the lonely atmosphere that the bioshock games have.
> 
> ...



if its one thing i despise its ppl who say things with no actual proof. not saying it did or didnt happen and the final prodect hit me just fine. in this kind of medium...romance is just as cliche although i dunno what games you play to say that parent child relations are overused outside of 2 other games the walking dead and last of us....both of those even having a love intrest in the story.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

I guess I don't really care about the changes because what we got seems significantly better than what we saw in 2011, particularly Elizabeth's shoddy original design in which she looked more like something out of a bad Tim Burton claymation film.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 3, 2013)

Tainted Love cover= best cover. 

Just in case there was any confusion. 

Didn't want to leave that Shantytown bar.


----------



## Stunna (Apr 3, 2013)

I prefer their _Everybody Wants to Rule the World_ cover, personally.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

No love for _Good Night, Irene_ or _Fortunate Son_?


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

Though really the _best_ cover is obviously _Will The Circle Be Unbroken?_


----------



## Stunna (Apr 3, 2013)

I agree.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 3, 2013)

All of the covers in this game are genius, but come on...


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

Even in that regard, _Fortunate Son_ is still vastly superior.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)




----------



## Furious George (Apr 3, 2013)

_Fortunate Son_ benefits from being accompanied by the very powerful image of the black lady.... 


*Spoiler*: __ 



singing during the Vox revolution.




You attach that song to the scene. Its an unfair advantage, I say.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

No, I attach it to the perfect vocalization of Jessy Carolina.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 3, 2013)

No, you!


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)




----------



## αshɘs (Apr 3, 2013)

man, there are some ridiculously gorgeous shots over at gaf in the high res and bullshot threads

starting from these pages (spoilers and potential long pageload times ahead)




just browse this guy's gallery 



edit: what are these type of shots called?






Stunna said:


> I prefer their _Everybody Wants to Rule the World_ cover, personally.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 3, 2013)

So, I went and bought the limited edition strategy guide and the art book for $50 (including tax) on Amazon.

Hell yeah.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

Send me the artbook.  Consider it a late birthday gift.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 3, 2013)

But the artbook is a birthday gift to me, it's impolite to re-gift things.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

Actually it's _more_ polite to re-gift things. 

Though I shouldn't complain. I got the game so that's enough for me.  And the limited edition guide came with the Season Pass for free.

And I get to play it with my new-fangled _Tomb Raider_ controller.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 3, 2013)

How did you get the season pass for free anyway?  Was it some kind of offer? I ended up just buying my season pass from Steam.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

Yeah, when my brother and mother went to get the game and controller for me, the clerk at the store said they were doing some kind of special - if you buy the game and the guide, you get the Season Pass for free.

They didn't have the money at the time so she said as long as we went back by the 9th to get the guide with my receipt, it would be valid. Though they were sold out of the guide then and only had one of the Limited Edition ones, so I said screw it and got that instead.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 3, 2013)

What a good deal. 

I can't keep myself from buying all kinds of Bioshock Infinite merchandise.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

If I had more money, I totally would. Thankfully not many games coming up I want. _Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen_ this month, _Fuse_ next, and _Remember Me_ in June but not as necessary as _Tomb Raider_ and _BioShock Infinite_ were.

.


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 3, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> if its one thing i despise its ppl who say things with no actual proof. not saying it did or didnt happen and the final prodect hit me just fine. in this kind of medium...romance is just as cliche although i dunno what games you play to say that parent child relations are overused outside of 2 other games the walking dead and last of us....both of those even having a love intrest in the story.



You cant say romance it's cliche and that father/daughter relationship it's not. Why? Because it has been used already in the two previous games.
And now, Bioshock 1 and 2 have no love interests in the story for the main character.

And for me Krory's opinion it's usually invalid. Since he tends to love things that are in my opinion. MEHHH.... So yeah. To him his own.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

Well if it will make you feel better to blame me for missing out on one of the few legitimately amazing gaming experiences in its history because of your own ignorance, feel free.  You're the one that's losing out.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 3, 2013)

The father/daughter relationship wasn't in Bioshock 1. >__> And a lot of people like to forget that Bioshock 2 even happened. It wasn't even a real father/daughter relationship anyway. You can't even tell if Subject Delta had any pure, loving, fatherly feelings for Eleanor or if he was acting purely on the will to survive, which meant reuniting with Eleanor at all costs. 

Meanwhile, Booker actually has emotions.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

If you want to be technical, it did exist between the Big Daddies and Little Sisters.

There was also a father/son relationship and mother/daughter relationship in _BioShock_.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 3, 2013)

Yeah, but that's getting technical. I'm trying to purely stick with the main characters, though those parental/offspring relationships were definitely in the games. I felt it was only a big focus in Bioshock 2, but you can't even tell if Subject Delta cared about Eleanor or not. In Bioshock 1 the theme is there, but it's definitely not a core focus of the game. It's actually kind of demented, because at the end of Bio 1 you "turn" into a Big Daddy and trick the Little Sisters into helping you because they're programmed to love you. Of course, it all turns out right in the end... depending on what you decided to do. 

In Bioshock Infinite it's a mutual relationship between the main characters.


----------



## Quiet Storm (Apr 3, 2013)

Suigetsu is just mad becuase there's no sex scene with Elizabeth.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 3, 2013)

I'm gonna call it right now... next Bioshock game takes place on the moon. 

The lighthouse is actually the rocket launchpad.

The city is on the moon.

The guardian is Songbird with a space helmet (no pressure's gonna get me down now, bitches!)

The man is... Neil Armstrong. 

Here's one conspiracy theory you've never heard before...


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

The Polygon roundtable, people were anticipating that there won't BE a next BioShock.

At least not a legit one from Levine.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 3, 2013)

I see. 

I'm satisfied right now with the three we have. I'd love to see more of what Levine has cooking in his mind (if anything), but I'm still happy if he decides not to do another game for a while.


----------



## Quiet Storm (Apr 3, 2013)

Fingers crossed for System Shock 3. But EA has the license :/


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 3, 2013)

2K will probably issue another cash grab down the lines  Wouldn't mind a new IP by Irrational tbh, even if technically they could get away with making infinite Bioshocks in the future. Or maybe make a new Swat again, but this time with Ken. Swat 4 was cool.

^ EA had the trademark license, but an insurance company had the IP rights, till a a dev called Night Dive bought it not too long ago, making SS2 coming out of limbo and be available on gog.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

I'd love to see more _games_ from Levine but I could safely say that if this were the end of _BioShock_ as a series, I'd be satisfied.


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 3, 2013)

Fun fact, Dead Space initially started out as a System Shock game.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

That's a damn shame.


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 3, 2013)

Well, from what I've seen you can find traces of SS DNA in it. And in the end I don't mind, since god knows what direction EA would have taken SS and Shodan


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

Ken Levine was asked on Twitter if they named Elizabeth "Anna" after the cosplayer, but Levine said it was just a lucky coincidence.


----------



## Stunna (Apr 3, 2013)

I would lie to people anyway.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 3, 2013)

Krory said:


> I'd love to see more _games_ from Levine but I could safely say that if this were the end of _BioShock_ as a series, I'd be satisfied.



Exactly. 

Levine has said many times that he doesn't think very far ahead when it comes to future projects. He puts his all into the project right in front of him and won't start on another except the spirit moves him.

While I think that another Bioshock game from Levine would be great, I'm also concerned that expanding on the "multiverse" concept any more could be a mistake.


----------



## Stunna (Apr 3, 2013)

I think the multiverse concept has been explored as far as it should be. I'd be satisfied if _Infinite's_ the last of the series, but if there's another installment, it shouldn't heavily reference the existence of other realms.


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 3, 2013)

Krory said:


> Well if it will make you feel better to blame me for missing out on one of the few legitimately amazing gaming experiences in its history because of your own ignorance, feel free.  You're the one that's losing out.



You really don't seem to get it. You always just take your version of things.

What I am is saying that I dont feel like I will enjoy the game now, because everyone has spoiled it for me already. And I was very disappointed with those spoilers.



Death-kun said:


> The father/daughter relationship wasn't in Bioshock 1. >__> And a lot of people like to forget that Bioshock 2 even happened. It wasn't even a real father/daughter relationship anyway. You can't even tell if Subject Delta had any pure, loving, fatherly feelings for Eleanor or if he was acting purely on the will to survive, which meant reuniting with Eleanor at all costs.
> 
> Meanwhile, Booker actually has emotions.



Oh really? Then what the fuck was the Big Daddy and little sister thing? Andrew Ryan being your father and stuff like that.

Bioshock 2 may have had a bad story but that's Levine's fault for letting it happen. You say people would like to forget about it yet you are bringing that up.
And that doesnt have anything to do with the main character displaying emotions or not.

This is the third time that  the theme of father and daughter happens. 

Kalep: You are projecting yourself. I bet you got mad about it. And I dont blame yah brah.


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 3, 2013)

martryn said:


> I was sorta expecting the same thing.  The game disappointed me due to the development changes that were made over the course of this last year.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This, fucking this!


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

>Judging a game you never played and never will play and know absolutely nothing about

Typical Suigetsu.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 3, 2013)

Suigetsu said:


> Bioshock 2 may have had a bad story but that's Levine's fault for letting it happen.



Ummm, no??


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

It's like he's turned into a bigger troll than I have.


----------



## Olivia (Apr 3, 2013)

For me, this game has been absolutely amazing.

I have no record of how 'this game was supposed to be', simply because I didn't follow it before hand. I wasn't hyping myself up, watching any commercials, or looking at any interviews. The game released a week ago and I didn't really care at the time, however after playing it I simply loved it.

I'm glad they changed it from the closed in, and suspenseful feeling from Bioshock 1 and 2. That is what made those games _unplayable_ for me, and not only that, Infinite is supposed to be the complete opposite. Bioshock 1 and 2 take place in the confined space, which lies underwater, called Rapture: Here there is essentially no escape. You're surrounded by water and within the air filled walls you are constantly being hunted. It's confinement to the extreme. On the other hand, in Infinite, it is exposed to the extreme. We are placed in the city of Columbia, which lies parallel to the clouds. We aren't held in tight hallways with sharp corners, we can see blue skies, and overall, the _appearance_ of the city is safe. 

Can I comment about how the stories ended up playing out from Bioshock 1, compared to Bioshock Infinite? No, I couldn't force myself to complete Bioshock 1, so I have no idea. However I really do enjoy Elizabeth's and Booker's relationship, and felt if they were to be made a couple it would ruin their character development. Through the game I never felt they could be in a relationship, and I am personally glad that they didn't end up as one. (Even if, in this case, they weren't 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Father and Daughter


)


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 3, 2013)

Suigetsu said:


> Oh really? Then what the fuck was the Big Daddy and little sister thing? Andrew Ryan being your father and stuff like that.
> 
> Bioshock 2 may have had a bad story but that's Levine's fault for letting it happen. You say people would like to forget about it yet you are bringing that up.
> And that doesnt have anything to do with the main character displaying emotions or not.
> ...



Obviously I was talking about the father/daughter theme actually being prevalent in the story and actually meaning something outside of simply being told "hurr durr Big Daddy is daddy to Little Sister".

And? I'm bringing it up because even though the theme is in Bioshock 2 it isn't utilized well whatsoever. You wouldn't even feel like a father unless Eleanor called you "father" twenty times every time she talks to you. Just because the game says "hurr durr father/daughter!" doesn't automatically mean that it means jack shit. 

Meanwhile, in Infinite, the theme of father/daughter is prevalent and actually _means something_, because the characters actually exhibit emotions and develop the relationship, unlike previous games where the theme is there basically because the game tells you it is. The only time you actually feel the relationship in other games is when a Little Sister cries about her Big Daddy getting killed. 

My point is that even though the theme is revisited for a third time, it only starts to mean jack shit in Infinite because it's:

a) Important to the story
b) Offers character development
c) Involves the main characters


Anyway, that's the last I have to say of this matter. Enjoy missing out on a great game because a theme was revisited for a third time.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 3, 2013)

Why would a theme being re-visited again be a bad thing anyway? "Oh god, not another HP Lovecraft story about unfathomable horror being discovered that will slowly drive anyone who delves into it completely insane! What, the next Gundam series is about the horrors of war again, come on!" The quality of the story/characters/execution is far more important than the theme being different, and Infinite excels in all three of those categories.


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 3, 2013)

Krory said:


> >Judging a game you never played and never will play and know absolutely nothing about
> 
> Typical Suigetsu.


Who says I aint playing it? I just feel discouraged to play it.
I aint saying this is a bad game, by all means this looks like a fantastic game. I just don't like some of the creative decisions that where made. If you are incapable of thinking on that level then talking to you it's like talking to the wall.

*Death-kun:*
Alright... I am tired of having to explain to every single person that I encounter of why I got dissapointed. So this is it.

again, I find myself at a loss as to how anyone saw a Father/Daughter mechanic between them. If anything it was because of the Father/Child narrative of the first two games that it didn't even occur to me that we might see the trope used again in Infinite, I honestly didn't believe that Ken and company would fall back on that, limiting the potential for something new.

On top of that the chemistry between Booker and Liz isn't, in my eyes, at anytime familial. Almost from the start she's enthralled, if at times weary, but very quickly forms what is clearly a romantic attachment. Some have even joked that her childlike enthusiasm and obvious endearment around Booker could be compared to a Disney Princess, and I would agree with that at least for the first few hours they spend together.

However as the real face of Columbia is opened to her and she matures so to do her feelings and her bond to Booker. The relationship quickly becomes complex and intimate, far more so than any Disney Romance. If it had not I would have rather quickly become turned off by their chemistry. I've seen enough sappy romances, and that's not what I saw, or wanted, between Booker and Liz.

And the game seemed poised to bring their relationship towards something deeply moving for them both...then she's Booker's daughter and their whole chemistry and the narrative between them falls flat on it's face. Where as you might not hate the relationship between them I, needless to say, have no love for it. Or, to be more specific, where it ends. The game overall is a really exceptional piece of entertainment, but it's nonetheless tarnished by a character turn that clearly wasn't envisioned when their relationship and companionship was being put together.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

> RT @mikedrucker: .@IGLevine Will there ever be a plasmid that gives a guy confidence to talk to a pretty girl? -Sure:



Link goes to a picture of Jack Daniels.  Oh, Ken.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 3, 2013)

Its a good idea not to play it with such negative thoughts.. I went into this game with open thoughts and opinions... One thing I always love about Bioshock is the sense of everything isn't what it seems..

I love the contrast between the peaceful city in the sky with all the true horrors of it hidden... how the game show light to racism in this suppose paradise... a lot of the themes were fantastically done.

I actually prefer the Father/Daughter relationship to a lover's rescue


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 3, 2013)

Well I'm obviously not going to bother changing your mind, Suigetsu. And I do see where you're coming from. You don't have to justify yourself, I was mostly just explaining what I meant when I said how the father/daughter relationship wasn't as prevalent in the first two games as it was in Infinite. 

Personally, I didn't expect a romantic relationship at any point at all, just because of the very noticeable age difference. I didn't even expect the father/daughter thing to show up, but it did as I kept playing.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

You know, I really think _BioShock Infinite_ broke me. I've lacked any urge to do something creative or productive or... well, anything at all... since having beat it. The only thing I _did_ do was play it again.


----------



## Stunna (Apr 3, 2013)

I would have turned out the same way if playing it again was an option for me.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 3, 2013)

Krory said:


> Truth



You and I are on the same wavelength with Infinite. Its like all the wonder of the world is gone now. 

I'm finding it hard to be excited for all the other games coming out... its a little scary.


----------



## Krory (Apr 3, 2013)

Furious George said:


> You and I are on the same wavelength with Infinite. Its like all the wonder of the world is gone now.
> 
> I'm finding it hard to be excited for all the other games coming out... its a little scary.



We will soon see a wave of suicides all caused by *BioShock Infinite* and Ken Levine will chuckle diabolically while methodically drumming his fingers together.


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 4, 2013)

> Personally, I didn't expect a romantic relationship at any point at all, just because of the very noticeable age difference. I didn't even expect the father/daughter thing to show up, but it did as I kept playing.



You are liying or you are incredibly clueless. She looks like she is your girl, They look like they are from the same age. Not like she is your freaking daughter. Seriously, they changed that during production.

Here is an experiment that you can do, there are posters of Bioshock infinite on every single bus stop. Ask the people.
1. Do you think they are lovers in the game? or what do you make of that cover?
They will answer you, I think you gotta rescue her and she is your girl.
Now Tell them.
What would you say if I tell you that she is his daughter?
They go like... Your shittin me... Just no.

 "Uuuhh Mind FUCK! SHOCK FACTOR!"


----------



## martryn (Apr 4, 2013)

I saw a commercial for it on television.  I guess it's a trailer, but they're still showing it.  It still doesn't seem like the game I played.  



I don't know.  I just think it doesn't deserve all this high and mighty praise.  I've played games where I've been stunned by the ending.  I was not stunned by this ending.  It felt like a cop out.


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 4, 2013)

(oh you're just some guy i know and i think you are cool and all...but now I've found out your the dad who abandoned me, so i hate you now)
Respectfully, that's exactly what we see at the end, regardless of what you might see otherwise, i.e. metaphorically, literally and so on. The first half of the game we see a girl clearly in love, or reaching that point, and there's sufficient evidence that it's nothing familial. She even asks Booker about what he thinks of her looks, if he had a wife, and so on. And I somehow don't think Ken intended there to be some subconscious genetic attraction considering that I don't believe for a moment their being related was an original part of their design bible. It's clear that came later, likely after Courtney and Troy had recorded much of the dialog.

As for what I mentioned in the first line, again that's exactly what we get; all the love, affection, admiration, all of it goes out the window because she's suddenly of the mindset that "I thought you were cool, but it turns out you're my father and a D-Bag." And we're expected to just accept that as fallout from the Twist. It's the worst kind of contrived, disjointed spin and of a severity that I still have a hard time imagining Ken wrote it. Now, obviously if you feel otherwise then I can't do anything about that. But it just stymies me that some people are looking for reasoning when it really comes down to poor narrative crafting/choices in what feels like a rushed execution (almost certainly not Ken or IG's fault) 

"Why couldn't we just have gone to Paris!"
Seems to be the general reaction. Well, not general persay, but the reaction of a fairly significant percentage. Really, just have to hope that Ken has the mercy to explain exactly why they couldn't go to Paris in the end, if that option was ever even on the table, etc...


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 4, 2013)

Any of you has the soundtrack of the game?
Could you tell me the name of the song that plays during the part with Elizabeth?
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhCwn8QGGUI[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## dragonbattousai (Apr 4, 2013)

Suigetsu said:


> Any of you has the soundtrack of the game?
> Could you tell me the name of the song that plays during the part with Elizabeth?
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhCwn8QGGUI[/YOUTUBE]



Sounds like an earlier version of the track "Unintended Consequences."

So if I start a new game on '99, will all upgrades and stuff from my previous playthrough carry over?


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 4, 2013)

I never saw any supposed romance between Booker and Elizabeth, neither in the whole game, nor the early gameplay footages. It's like people want to see things where they really aren't. Hell, Alyx and freaking Gordon has more going on for them, and that's telling.

And I don't see the problem with Levine "reusing" the parent-child angle. He's basically what you call a video game auteur. You're going to recognize his signature in all the games he makes. There are going to be themes that are shared between them. Parent-child is one them, so are Frankensteinian bonds and meta commentary on games/player agency for ex.  



Krory said:


> Link goes to a picture of Jack Daniels.  Oh, Ken.



Jack Daniels? Ken, I am disappoint.


----------



## martryn (Apr 4, 2013)

> I never saw any supposed romance between Booker and Elizabeth, neither in the whole game, nor the early gameplay footages.



I was playing, my wife came in, saw about a minute of the game, and asked if that was the romantic interest.  By this point I had already figured out the twist (which was blatantly obvious when you walk through the doors of the Hall of Heroes), and was like, "Ew, no, I think that's his daughter."  

Point being, my wife thought immediately there was a romantic angle there.  The game's twist is revealed early on to anyone that's not just rushing blindly through the game, but they thought it'd be best to wait until the last twenty minutes of game play to reveal that.  And everyone talks about the ending being so grand, but the final battle is frustrating, you never get to fight Songbird, and the game sorta ends unexpectedly and with a fifteen minute what amounts to a cut scene.  It doesn't reveal anything that someone with half a brain could figure out hours upon hours earlier.  The more I think about it, the more I'm let down.  

I am considering a 2nd playthrough on the 1999 mode, and I'm going to concentrate on getting all the achievements.  The game was a lot of fun to play, but I'm seriously shocked at the level of praise the ending of the game is getting.  It's like you people were completely blown away by a plot twist that is frankly overused in almost all fields of media, including video games.  It's not like the middle of Final Fantasy VII when Sephiroth kills Aerys or toward the end of Knights of the Old Republic when you find out that _you_ are the sith lord everyone is talking about.


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

Suigetsu said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> (oh you're just some guy i know and i think you are cool and all...but now I've found out your the dad who abandoned me, so i hate you now)



A) Tag your shit in case someone happens in here and hasn't beaten it.

B) That is not what happens _at all_.  You're only proving everyone else right.


----------



## Slice (Apr 4, 2013)

I didnt see Elizabeth as a love interrest, only as the means to finish his job to get rid of his debt.

_But_ if i hadnt read anything about the game before i would have never guessed their age difference is that high. Even in the promotional artworks he doesnt look like he is 18-20 years older than her. So i can see why people expect a love story in there.


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

Slice said:


> I didnt see Elizabeth as a love interrest, only as the means to finish his job to get rid of his debt.
> 
> _But_ if i hadnt read anything about the game before i would have never guessed their age difference is that high. Even in the promotional artworks he doesnt look like he is 18-20 years older than her. So i can see why people expect a love story in there.



He always looked like someone in his mid-thirties to me and she always looked like a teenager.

Even in one of his first two promotional concept artwork after the extremely bad first trailer, you can see the wanted posters behind them in which they clearly state he's 37 years old and Elizabeth is 20. They just changed them each by a year (Booker up to 38, Elizabeth down to 19).

Only thing that changed drastically from that point was that Booker originally had a small scar going over his right eyebrow as a distinguishing mark.


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 4, 2013)

oh come on, the Revan twist was pretty obvious


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> oh come on, the Revan twist was pretty obvious



Like Fontaine being Atlas at the end of _BioShock_. 

Like, "_*GEE. Y'THINK? REALLY?*_"


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 4, 2013)

Speaking of Booker's purpose in being in Columbia, I remembered something that I was wondering about a few days ago...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Does Booker ever realize why he is in Columbia before the very end? Yeah, he knows he has to rescue Elizabeth, but does he know _why_? Obviously he doesn't clue us, the player, in on it, but I assumed that might have been because he was just trying to hide things from Elizabeth. Especially with how frantic he gets after Comstock tells Elizabeth to ask Booker about her finger. It just seems like he acts, or actually is, clueless the entire game.


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> Speaking of Booker's purpose in being in Columbia, I remembered something that I was wondering about a few days ago...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I felt it was fairly obvious he had deluded himself into the, "Bring us the girl and wipe away the debt" thing. After all, there was the note tagged to the door as he entered the lighthouse and that was after his memory loss/adjustment. He doesn't know why _they_ want Elizabeth and it is brought up several times what _everyone_ wants her for - Comstock, the people watching her, the people in New York. Booker seems to not know and just legitimately didn't care for the longest while. Regarding when he gets "frantic" with Comstock, I don't think he was necessarily trying to hide anything from her. I think he just really didn't remember - he was wholly ignorant. He was likely just at a breaking point by then. Or, perhaps just as likely, it was something subconsciously. He knew but he didn't know he knew. If that makes sense.

The only time I think Booker was legitimately hiding something was initially when he set course for New York in the First Lady as opposed to Paris like he promised her. He did tell her that he was hired to save her, but it was kind of left at that and he never really told her about how he was supposed to bring her to New York or the likes. After she knocked him cold, it seemed to be less of a concern. I don't think he lied about why - he probably had no fucking clue why, especially considering it was all a delusion to begin with his mind made up - he just lied about having to do it to begin with.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 4, 2013)

Why are we still indulging this romantic relationship/father-daughter relationship thing? Its incredibly stupid.


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

Because some idiotic people feel there can't be a male and female character on-screen together without them eventually boning or wanting to bone.

Caring, apparently in every situation, ultimately leads to kinky sex. /internetlogic


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 4, 2013)

Krory said:


> Because some idiotic people feel there can't be a male and female character on-screen together without them eventually boning or wanting to bone.
> 
> Caring, apparently in every situation, ultimately leads to kinky sex. /internetlogic



My thoughts as well.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 4, 2013)

martryn said:


> It's like you people were completely blown away by a plot twist that is frankly overused in almost all fields of media, including video games.



Well if you think the plot twist taken by itself in the "I didn't see that one coming!" kind of way is what is blowing people's minds about the ending than you might be missing it. 

Honestly, I saw.... 


*Spoiler*: __ 



that it could be a father/daughter deal and that DeWitt was connected to Comstock in some kind of way.




.... as a possibility pretty early-on. When you are wholly expecting a game/movie/show to have a big plot twist from the very beginning by virtue of the series reputation than it becomes incredibly hard not to see certain things coming in some measure.

It is not whether you are completely oblivious that "such and such" could be the outcome of a good plot twist that gives it its kick. It is what that plot twist means for the entire narrative that makes it powerful. Its going back and seeing certain things make much more sense and certain images suddenly gain all new significance. In _The Sixth Sense  _, finding out Willis was dead was only part of the power of that excellent twist. It was afterward going back and re-examining his interactions with the living world that blew everyone's minds. Kind of the same deal with _Infinite_... 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Now all those baptism scenes gain a lot more beauty to them.




All of this is to say nothing of how excellently the entire ending sequence played out. You don't even have to understand every single bit of plot to be blown away by... 


*Spoiler*: __ 



the way the different Elizabeth's show up, the way the game forces you to face the horrible inevitability of your past choice by having Robert Lutece bar the way out of the room, earlier rowboat sequence being played again,


 

... the voice acting, the music, the emotional significance of the big reveal on the characters in the story as opposed to its significance to the player, the open-ended discussions that can be gleaned from it (not in the bad ME3/LOST sort of way, but honest-to-goodness discussion).... 

...yeah, it really isn't all that hard to see why this ending is kind of a big deal.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 4, 2013)

George summed it up much better than I ever could have.


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

I hate it when Jorge de Furioso is smarter than me.


----------



## Jena (Apr 4, 2013)

Suigetsu said:


> You are liying or you are incredibly clueless. She looks like she is your girl, They look like they are from the same age. Not like she is your freaking daughter. Seriously, they changed that during production.
> 
> Here is an experiment that you can do, there are posters of Bioshock infinite on every single bus stop. Ask the people.
> 1. Do you think they are lovers in the game? or what do you make of that cover?
> ...



And now...I snap.

Play the damn game.

What's on the cover doesn't matter. I don't care if they intentionally positioned Elizabeth and Booker to look like they're romantic. Which I don't think they did, but sure whatever I'll indulge you. What's on the cover of the game or promotional material doesn't fucking matter. Usually that's largely unrelated to the game and created from a marketing perspective.

It is _abundantly_ clear that Elizabeth is not meant to be your romantic interest when you play. It is _abundantly_ clear that she is much younger than your character.

Booker and Elizabeth care about each other. You can love someone endlessly and not want to bone them. At no point do _any_ of their interactions read as something that is exclusively for a romantic partnership.

And the repetition of the father/daughter theme makes a lot of sense once you get to the fucking ending.

So, in short, either play the game or don't play it. Frankly I don't give a shit. But your endless butthurt rants just show that you have your mind set about this game and nothing is going to change it. Fine. Enjoy sitting on your dark angry corner. I hope you have fun.

/end rant


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 4, 2013)

thats what happens when jena gets mad...of course i agree. your minds are trying to create a narrative of a bad game that does not exist. sui in particular never even played the game but acts out this false narrative like it sold his child or something


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

I like Jena when she's mad.


----------



## Mael (Apr 4, 2013)




----------



## Death-kun (Apr 4, 2013)

Another thing I found interesting about this series...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Is that the where mattered a lot less than the when, especially in Bioshock Infinite. It's like being sunken into a blast from the past no matter what. Also, since Rapture nor Columbia take place in any real life location, I feel as though Levine had more liberties in doing what he wanted. I guess the best example I can think of is... let's say Assassin's Creed: Revelations. It's based in the middle east, yeah. Real life location, info taken from the history books. In this way, Ubisoft had to take certain precautions to not make sure any one group felt too offended by what they did with the location, people, etc. (which is why they have so many disclaimers citing their teams full of people from different cultures and beliefs). However, Levine makes up his own areas, so he's more free to do what he wants. However, he obviously takes the time period into account. I would be pretty miffed if Columbia had turned out any differently than what we got. I expect bigotry, racism and cutthroat industrialists in 1912. 






Krory said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Indeed, I just wonder how he justified it to himself. The Luteces obviously must have done something. Is it always a constant that Anna will be born and then taken by a Comstock from a different reality? Because it's highly possible that the Luteces could've just grabbed a Booker that never had Anna to begin with. In that way, Booker really has no idea what's going until the very end, when he "remembers" everything thanks to God-Elizabeth. I guess in that way it also makes more sense if the Booker we play as was a Booker that never had an Anna; Booker still has debt he needs to pay off since he never had an Anna to sell, so he takes the Luteces offer to go to Columbia and save the girl to wipe away the debt. It might also be a lot easier to coerce Booker into doing so if things went as I say they did. Remember, Booker saw Richard Lutece's face when the deal was being made and when he was trying to stop Comstock from going through the portal with Anna. So, throughout the whole game, our Booker either forgot Richard's face or never knew him to begin with (if my theory about an "oblivious" Booker being sent on the mission is true).


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

What's funny is Booker's in-game model we see actually looks _younger_ than even his first character art (the one I pointed out explicitly states he's 37 and Elizabeth is 20):



This was first shown in July of 2011.  So, yeah.

Now let's hope he can beat Garrett at least in the Hero Tournament here.


----------



## Mael (Apr 4, 2013)

Sorry Krors I voted for Garrett...he's the fuckin' Master Thief.


----------



## Jena (Apr 4, 2013)

Krory said:


> I like Jena when she's mad.


----------



## Mael (Apr 4, 2013)

Jena mad is like Deadpool mad, not Hulk mad.


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, I just wonder how he justified it to himself. The Luteces obviously must have done something. Is it always a constant that Anna will be born and then taken by a Comstock from a different reality? Because it's highly possible that the Luteces could've just grabbed a Booker that never had Anna to begin with. In that way, Booker really has no idea what's going until the very end, when he "remembers" everything thanks to God-Elizabeth. I guess in that way it also makes more sense if the Booker we play as was a Booker that never had an Anna; Booker still has debt he needs to pay off since he never had an Anna to sell, so he takes the Luteces offer to go to Columbia and save the girl to wipe away the debt. It might also be a lot easier to coerce Booker into doing so if things went as I say they did. Remember, Booker saw Richard Lutece's face when the deal was being made and when he was trying to stop Comstock from going through the portal with Anna. So, throughout the whole game, our Booker either forgot Richard's face or never knew him to begin with (if my theory about an "oblivious" Booker being sent on the mission is true).




*Spoiler*: __ 



Or it could be much simpler that Booker recognized Richard but the offer of getting his daughter back was too good to pass up. I don't think anything makes any more or less sense. Though it _could_ be that Booker didn't remember Richard's face. It was some years later and we don't know how Booker kept himself. As we've seen in other games, movies, books, television shows, and even real life, if he really had dedicated himself to alcohol abuse after the fact, then it's entirely possible he wouldn't recognize and also considering that Robert looked no older almost twenty years later wouldn't make sense if it was the same person to someone with a logical thinking. If I'm not mistaken, the nosebleeds would only occur if the Booker actually had conflicting memories or repressing them - if it was a Booker where none of this ever happened, then I'm not sure that would apply, would it? It was "justified" because as the opening quote indicates, the mind makes up memories to make things make sense. And yes, we saw the Luteces helped move this along with Booker's "belongings" and the note in the lighthouse and such.

We could presume that those black and white moments were Booker trying to reconcile his _real_ memories.


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

Mael said:


> Sorry Krors I voted for Garrett...he's the fuckin' Master Thief.



Your vote was predictable.


----------



## Mael (Apr 4, 2013)

Krory said:


> Your vote was predictable.



Hey mans it takes me back to 1998 when the greatness started along with dat Thief development.


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

_BioShock Infinite_ is the topic of this round of _Spoiled Games_ with Adam Sessler.


----------



## Jena (Apr 4, 2013)




----------



## αshɘs (Apr 4, 2013)

Krory said:


> Like Fontaine being Atlas at the end of _BioShock_.
> 
> Like, "_*GEE. Y'THINK? REALLY?*_"



If you wanted to pay attention, then it wasn't hard to deduce it I think. But I think it was easy to miss, if someone just ran through it.

It's the execution that counts anyway. Like George said


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

Bwuahaha. 

@ashes - It was like... Fontaine was the focus of _so_ much in audio logs and how diabolical and bastardly he was. So much was spent in building him up that it felt like the grand reveal that went, "ta-daaaa!" was anticlimactic - especially when paired against the stuff with the much more memorable Andrew Ryan.


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 4, 2013)

"A man chooses, a slave obeys" was superior for sure. That part still gives me shivers.

And the Shodan reveal was better than Fontaine reveal too.


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

I think the roundtable that Stumpy posted earlier really exemplified that big different between Fontaine and what we got in _Infinite_ because...


*Spoiler*: __ 



They _didn't_ conform to those video game standards where, "okay, there's a huge boss at the end." That was an ultimate failing, if you ask me, with _BioShock_. Not that the game failed but if I had to pick out one solitary bad thing about the game, it would be that boss battle.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Apr 4, 2013)

My god, there were implications EVERYWHERE.


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 4, 2013)

Krory said:


> A) Tag your shit in case someone happens in here and hasn't beaten it.
> 
> B) That is not what happens _at all_.  You're only proving everyone else right.



A) Why should I when people didnt do that and spoiled the game for me?

B) Oh, You Troll!

C) *JENA!*
Oh Jena, I don't care how much you rant. My opinion still stands. Dont like it? go back and read my posts. Cause I am tired of debating the same subject to people that just keep giving me the same answer and are incapable of debating this kind of stuff.

TBH I am just coming here to see what Krory says. 

*FURIOUS GEORGE!*

U angry my Fried? "Fried not friend"
Go back and read my fucking posts. If not, then I dont give a squat about your rantings, like an angry monkey throwing poop at people from the trees.


----------



## Jena (Apr 4, 2013)

Suigetsu said:


> A) Why should I when people didnt do that and spoiled the game for me?


Don't go on the internet if you don't want to be spoiled. Sounds bitchy, but it's true. If you didn't want to be spoiled you should've avoided the topic as much as possible.



> B) Oh, You Troll!


It's not trolling if it's true. Also, your bias is showing. You want to hate this game because Krory likes it, apparently. 



> C) *JENA!*
> Oh Jena, I don't care how much you rant. My opinion still stands. Dont like it? go back and read my posts. Cause I am tired of debating the same subject to people that just keep giving me the same answer and are incapable of debating this kind of stuff.


Allow me to break this down for you.

You're entitled to your opinion, but you're arguing as someone who has never played the game. It's like if there was a discussion about _Frankenstein_ and I just busted in and started saying that the book sucked because one of the major themes is "science going too far" and that had been done before. And then any time someone tried to question me, I responded back with "I don't have to read it to know it's true. I read a summary on sparknotes so I know all about the book."

You can't debate this because you haven't played the game. You're arguing with information that is second-hand because you haven't experienced it first hand. You're also dismissing a game because it isn't exactly like the promotional material, it repeats a theme from previous games, and it doesn't have things in it that you thought it should have. It's mind-blowingly petty and you know what? Yeah, it's upsetting. Because it's attitudes like this that foster shitty repetitive games.



> TBH I am just coming here to see what Krory says.


Then don't pretend like you're knowledgeable about the game when you fucking aren't.



> Go back and read my fucking posts. If not, then I dont give a squat about your rantings, like an angry monkey throwing poop at people from the trees.


The only monkey in here is you. We've heard your piece about why this game you've never played and are determined to hate sucks. Bully for you. Some of us who like innovation enjoyed this game and are annoyed by your crazy rants. 

If you'll go back and read earlier in this thread, there have been criticisms brought up in this thread and discussed. We're not all sucking the game's dick and praising it as some perfect masterpiece that can never be questioned. We invite dissenting opinions. But like I said your dissenting opinion is half-formed and based on half the information.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 4, 2013)

Suigetsu said:


> *FURIOUS GEORGE!*
> U angry my Fried? "Fried not friend"
> Go back and read my fucking posts. If not, then I dont give a squat about your rantings, like an angry monkey throwing poop at people from the trees.



What is this dude on about? Why is he talking to me?


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

His opinions would probably have a bit more stance if he didn't make them up based on facts that he also made up.

And then say _we're_ wrong because the game is not what he made up in his mind.

And he didn't claim that he doesn't care what anyone says if he didn't read his posts... when everyone did, and started to reply rationally, and were only met with insults.

And if he didn't just admit that he's here purely as a troll.


----------



## Mael (Apr 4, 2013)

Who could EVAR beat SHODAN, ash?


----------



## Castiel (Apr 4, 2013)

Good game, I liked it.  Took me a bit to piece the plot together after the credits, but once I did I was fine.

My one issue was who the fuck puts their power core on the top of their ship.  Comstock you fucking idiot.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Apr 4, 2013)

I haven't seen this much color in a western game without it being considered a japanese game.


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 4, 2013)

TTSSSSS *Jena*, all this attention it's:



Seriously, your only defense it's to say that I cant say cause I haven't play this game. Also you re mixing two things up.
Me saying that the game it's bad - Which I am not saying it's bad - with the t
*Spoiler*: __ 



hing of Father/daughter and grimy end being over used and bad


 which honestly falls into the creative process.

Krory being Krory. Never change!


----------



## Sotei (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks everyone who insightfully responded to my question. Seems the ol' lamb is a lot more then just a walking, talking back pack. I'mma get the game sooner rather than later. 

By the way, PS3 or 360? Don't fucking say PC, I don't care for PC gaming and the asshole master race.


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

I always knew one day Suigetsu would just turn into Diet Hatif. 

Anyways, of his pathetic attempts at trolling aren't doing it for you, have a funny  for a few laughs. Whining about violence and how it detracts from the game (and it's ironic to see Cliffy B of all people bashing the violence level).


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

Sotei said:


> Thanks everyone who insightfully responded to my question. Seems the ol' lamb is a lot more then just a walking, talking back pack. I'mma get the game sooner rather than later.
> 
> By the way, PS3 or 360? Don't fucking say PC, I don't care for PC gaming and the asshole master race.



I'll be the first to say... I'm a console gamer all the way. I love my console, I love playing on a console. I played _Infinite_ on both and even on the low quality settings there is a huge notable difference between the PC and 360 version. It's kind of startling. It still looks good on the 360, but yeah... the PC is definitely superior. I hate the whole "lololol master race" crap but yeah, if it's an option, I'd suggest it.

I can't speak of the quality on the PS3 but I have to imagine that it would look better than the 360 version, but maybe someone else here can speak on that.


----------



## Jena (Apr 4, 2013)

Sotei said:


> Thanks everyone who insightfully responded to my question. Seems the ol' lamb is a lot more then just a walking, talking back pack. I'mma get the game sooner rather than later.
> 
> By the way, PS3 or 360? Don't fucking say PC, I don't care for PC gaming and the asshole master race.


I played it on the 360, thought it looked fine. 

Here's a PC/360 comparison:


----------



## Krory (Apr 4, 2013)

I figured it was intentional as well. You see a lot of the folks that are defending it talk about how it sort of makes an example of the "dark" side of this supposed fantasy land. Well, aside from all of the racism and stuff. I feel like it was meant to be shocking and disjointing after seeing all of these wonders because it makes you realize just how brutal and fake everyone and the entire place is. I believe Booker's personality and his background also contributed to this all.

And I think Elizabeth's reactions to the executions helped to keep it somewhat grounded. I was so attached to Elizabeth for a while I actually did stop doing executions because I started feeling bad when she started screaming or going, "Oh my God!" I was like, "Poor Liz, I can't do this to you. "

Not that having crows peck them to death or electrocute them until their head pops like a water balloon was much better... but you get the idea.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 4, 2013)

Sotei said:


> Thanks everyone who insightfully responded to my question. Seems the ol' lamb is a lot more then just a walking, talking back pack. I'mma get the game sooner rather than later.
> 
> By the way, PS3 or 360? Don't fucking say PC, I don't care for PC gaming and the asshole master race.



buy it for ps3. ive had both and while on par for the most part..ps3 is the smoother ride and comes with bio1 in us territories.   i also dont think booker likes killing at this point. at all. its why he wanted to be cleansed. in one world he rejected the cleansing,shouldered the burden tried to start a family and become decent but knew how to kill when the time came. in another he used the cleansing to absolve himself of any futher guilt by seperating himself into another person and became a much bigger monster who found more pleasure in pain than even himself during wounded knee at the height of his original villainy.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 4, 2013)

The moment I found out about executions I spammed that like a friend


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Apr 5, 2013)

Krory said:


> I always knew one day Suigetsu would just turn into Diet Hatif.
> 
> Anyways, of his pathetic attempts at trolling aren't doing it for you, have a funny  for a few laughs. Whining about violence and how it detracts from the game (and it's ironic to see Cliffy B of all people bashing the violence level).



I remember the trailer to Bioshock 1 being very particularly gory.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxPafTeuqZA[/YOUTUBE]

And now that I read it, they're just being silly since the game establishes that it's paradise on the surface and really _really_ fucked up underneath. The violence is just icing on the cake.

I mean Bioshock 1 was no better and Rapture was infinitely worse than Columbia since that place went straight to hell. And you had Andrew Ryan.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Apr 5, 2013)

Krory said:


> I'll be the first to say... I'm a console gamer all the way. I love my console, I love playing on a console. I played _Infinite_ on both and even on the low quality settings there is a huge notable difference between the PC and 360 version. It's kind of startling. It still looks good on the 360, but yeah... the PC is definitely superior. I hate the whole "lololol master race" crap but yeah, if it's an option, I'd suggest it.
> 
> I can't speak of the quality on the PS3 but I have to imagine that it would look better than the 360 version, but maybe someone else here can speak on that.



I have PS3 and it looks amazing. Hell, no installations.



Krory said:


> I figured it was intentional as well. You see a lot of the folks that are defending it talk about how it sort of makes an example of the "dark" side of this supposed fantasy land. Well, aside from all of the racism and stuff. I feel like it was meant to be shocking and disjointing after seeing all of these wonders because it makes you realize just how brutal and fake everyone and the entire place is. I believe Booker's personality and his background also contributed to this all.
> 
> And I think Elizabeth's reactions to the executions helped to keep it somewhat grounded. I was so attached to Elizabeth for a while I actually did stop doing executions because I started feeling bad when she started screaming or going, "Oh my God!" I was like, "Poor Liz, I can't do this to you. "
> 
> Not that having crows peck them to death or electrocute them until their head pops like a water balloon was much better... but you get the idea.



I was torn between shooting the guy at the ticket booth, Han Solo style, or getting my hand stabbed considering Liz was right there.

Oh well, buzzsaw to the face. While on fire.


----------



## WhiteWolf (Apr 5, 2013)

What is Bioshock? 

Is it when a biologist gets shocked?


----------



## Burke (Apr 5, 2013)

fucking handymen always jumping a thousand feet to land right infront of you
good thing shock jockey spam stops em

also why is suigetsu still here


----------



## Byrd (Apr 5, 2013)

I often find myself running from handymen... although it is funny to see them pick up random people and toss them at you


----------



## Stunna (Apr 5, 2013)

> But it's not That Game, because it's so hilariously, egregiously violent that a large number of people will never give it a chance.


Their loss.


----------



## Scratchy (Apr 5, 2013)

Playing on 1999. Let's see how difficult this really is


----------



## Furious George (Apr 5, 2013)

WhiteWolf said:


> What is Bioshock?
> 
> Is it when a biologist gets shocked?



I bet you found someone to high-five when you thought this up.



Krory said:


> Anyways, of his pathetic attempts at trolling aren't doing it for you, have a funny  for a few laughs. Whining about violence and how it detracts from the game (and it's ironic to see Cliffy B of all people bashing the violence level).



What's interesting about this is that Ken Levine talked about possibly doing a non-violent game in the future on a radio show (KSR radio, I think) just two days ago!

*He made no apologies for the Bioshock series' violence, but he did acknowledge that excessive buckets of blood could detract from an engaging narrative... for instance, it doesn't make much sense for a character looking for redemption to start picking off innocent people just cause' he can.
*
Then again, the radio show obviously was not meant for gamers so when the inevitable "vidoe game violence= all of life's problems" thing came up Levine may have just been saying this to appease folks. 

But yeah, I agree that Infinite's violence served as a strong tonal shift and a wake-up call for Liz.

CliffyB is a bro but he can be silly sometimes. Talks too much.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 5, 2013)

To me, the violence made sense. You are a former soldier, and in Columbia for a while you actually get caught up in a war in the story. War IS NOT PRETTY OR PG-13 RATED, and I don't expect a game like Bioshock Infinite to shy away from it. I understand that there a few people out there who can't stomach that (though surely not a ton. Walking Dead is like the most viewed cable drama currently, and that show is FAR more violent than Infinite) but then this game just shouldn't be their thing. Bioshock Infinite shouldn't have to "tone it down" just to appeal to a broader audience, after all some people who would have issues with religion being portrayed as something that can lead to ruin would not want to play this game. 

Bioshock Infinite was never going to be "That Game", in fact no such thing can exist since nothing in the world appeals to everyone (well, except oxygen, sleep, and food. That's about it). If the game lacked much violence, some people would have issues with that. The article compared it to LOST, well guess what? Not everyone was interested in watching LOST when it began, and some people lost interest when the show got more complex (when actually most of the answers were pretty simply, yet STILL managed to confuse some audience members. Now imagine those same audience members who were confused by LOST's ending, which was really straightforward if you paid attention, being treated with Bioshock Infinite's ending. The amount of "WTF did I just see?!!" reactions would be countless). And some people might not feel comfortable seeing a game portray how messed up racial relations a century ago. I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

Bioshock Infinite is a game that succeeds because it delivers a solid execution of its story, characters, themes, and world, its success should not be measured by how much it modifies itself to appeal to as wide a range an audience as possible. I mean, imagine a movie studio telling David Lynch, "sorry, Mr. Lynch, but your newest movie is too much of a mindfuck, could you tone it down so that it can attract a wider audience?" As someone who appreciates David Lynch's crazy-as-shit style of film-making, I'd be pretty pissed at that studio. So if someone isn't interested in Bioshock Infinite because of its violent content, well fine. There's plenty of high-quality, non-violent games on the market they can still check out.

And honestly, you can't compare the violence of the Batman movies vs. a first-person shooter. A movie can control where the camera is, hence they can have Joker fire a shotgun at a cop point-blank and then cut away without showing the cop's body which would be messed-up looking to say the least. A FPS can't do that since the player controls where the camera is, and so you either have to sacrifice realism by having the enemies somehow magically never show blood despite getting shot with plenty of stuff that should cause blood loss, or you portray it more realistically, and for a game like Bioshock the realistic option is naturally the right one. If this were a Star Wars game which are more PG-13 material, then yeah I don't need to see actual laser damage on the bodies, but it's not. The skyhook opening to me felt like a wake-up call that this game is rated M (and the content is right there on the back of the case, so no one has justification in complaining the violence is a surprise) and people will die in horrible ways once the inevitable conflict breaks out. As Kanji warned Asuka in Evangelion, "no one dies beautifully, Asuka."

In terms of killing innocent people, can you? I never once fired on a non-threatening civilian, and killing the soldiers is in self-defense so that hardly counts as murdering innocents. So I didn't even know it was an option, I assumed the gun would do nothing. But hey, if a player doesn't want to kill innocent civilians, then don't do so, the game doesn't ever force you to do so. Even with the ticket guy you have an option to not threaten his life just because he seems like he could be a threat.

Also, I never checked out Kotaku much, but Matt and Pat (Two Best Friends Let's Play) mention it a lot in their videos and they seem to have a very low opinion of the site and said the site posts a lot of unconfirmed rumors, so I'm skeptical of anything they have to say naturally.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Apr 5, 2013)

> In terms of killing innocent people, can you? I never once fired on a non-threatening civilian



Yes actually. And the Skyhook executions work as well.


----------



## Krory (Apr 5, 2013)

.

Also has some Vigor-icon-based rings and such.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 5, 2013)

This is awesome.


----------



## Burke (Apr 5, 2013)

like everyone, i have crows with crows nests on kill upgrade
and the segment where youre fighting with the vox, i cant stop killing them because for some reason they felt it necessary to have friendlies activate the crow traps.


----------



## Jena (Apr 5, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> This is awesome.



Awww, it's so cute!


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 5, 2013)

this just hit me


*Spoiler*: __ 



when Comstock comes to Booker's world to take Anna, how come he doesn't suffer the same symptosm as Booke and Robert?

I think I got you, Ken


----------



## Krory (Apr 5, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



This was brought up a couple times earlier. I suggested that it's a case-by-case basis. A transfer _can_ scramble your memories, doesn't mean it _will_ and it could also change depending upon on if any third-party or other source decides to hamper the return of the legitimate memories or try to corroborate them or even false memories. I figured, personally,  maybe Comstock had a stronger sense of willpower and conviction and so his memories were able to stay intact. He knew what he was going to do, was strong in his purpose. Booker, on the other hand, might have had a weaker mind and a willingness to try and forget some of his misdeeds. Maybe he was still drunk or messed in the head when Robert came to him to help and thus the tear affected him more easily. With Booker, the Luteces helped to fortify a _false_ memory with the notes and picture and such. Whereas with Comstock, perhaps anything he did lose was put together by Robert for him to keep his eyes on the prize whereas it was easier to "control" Booker with this false memory.

Could also be the manner in which they were shifted. Presumably, Comstock game over using the Luteces' machine. Booker was brought over using their powers after their "death." It could also have been an affect of them having messed around with timelines so much as it was clearly not the first Booker they used.


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 5, 2013)

This was brought up before? I prolly missed it while the previous bitching went on


----------



## Krory (Apr 5, 2013)

It was just one person and I was the only one to respond, so it's understandable.


----------



## Krory (Apr 6, 2013)




----------



## Death-kun (Apr 6, 2013)

Krory said:


>



I definitely wanna use the second one as a sig when it's okay to openly talk about spoilers. I was actually trying to find videos of that scene to make a gif from, but in every video I saw on Youtube the player was looking at everything _except_ what I wanted him/her to. Let's look at this random sign instead of the scene taking place.


----------



## Krory (Apr 6, 2013)

I think when I finally get to it, I'll use...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Elizabeth killing Fitzroy, though there are a couple other Elizabeth moments I'd like.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 6, 2013)

Man... I kinda thought I'd see boobies for some reason.


----------



## Fiona (Apr 6, 2013)

> Reads last few pages




~*The reactions of idiots to Bioshock Infinite*~



*Spoiler*: __ 



Critically Acclaimed Game comes out - It wasnt what i _wanted_, there was a hot bitch that i couldnt bang and there was _no boobs_ how the hell can anyone play that? I spent the whole game being around her, clearly that means we bang. I mean sure the storyline was amazing and it wasnt the same old bullshit washed rinsed and repeated like 90% of what is coming out nowadays, but i find comfort in the fact that i always know what comes next. 

But now you are telling me they put a plot twist in a genuinely interesting storyline? FUCK THAT SHIT. I want my same old bullshit pleez. 

Wait you are saying they put a variable combat system that allows me take on enemies in a variety of ways? FUCK THAT SHIT. I want my bazooka and grenades i can spam. 

Wait you are telling me i spend the whole game protecting some hot bitch and i dont even get a handy out of it? FUCK THAT SHIT. Dont make the character my daughter. How is my character supposed to sleep with her? I mean come i dont wanna actually _FEEL_ when i play my games. If im not playing the same old shit over and over or having pointless video game nudity shoved at me then i dont want it. 

Wait you are saying that the graphics are great but they dont show me boobs in an M rated game? FUCK THAT SHIT. Thats the whole point of M rated games. I dont want actual _depth_ to my games. 

Wait i saw that one poster with the guy and the girl on it. Clearly that means they bang. The fuck is this false advertising bullshit 

Look at this broke ass game, thinking that i want a great storyline, meaningful character interaction/development and variable weapon/power possibilites. 




Sometimes i catch myself reading crap like this and i feel like it should surprise me, and then when it doesnt it makes me sad 





/rant


----------



## Krory (Apr 6, 2013)

No boobs? Guh!

Worst game ever.


----------



## martryn (Apr 6, 2013)

I could care less if there was a father / daughter relationship and no fucking occurred.  Doesn't bother me.  I liked the violence, thought the combat system was satisfactory (though I thought the enemies were underutilized or forgettable), and I don't expect to see tits in a video game.

However, I can't believe there are people stupid enough to be blown away by the ending.  How could you seriously play through that game, listen to even half the voxowhatevers, and pay attention to what's going on around you and not already know exactly where the game is going.  It more or less reveals the big twist halfway through the game if you're paying attention.  The alternate worlds thing is presented early in the game as well.  Once you figure out the twist, walking into the Hall of Heroes, then it's not a hard stretch of the imagination to figure out she's your daughter.  If you've got all this praise for the plot alone, it was pretty good, but not without a few holes and certainly not the greatest video game plot we've ever seen.   

I wouldn't be disappointed in the game if not for two reasons:
1.  The game was hyped the fuck up.  For a week prior to buying it I read reviews, saw news articles, and commercials, with everyone unanimously saying that this is definitely going to be the best game of the year, if not the decade.  I saw some 10 / 10 reviews.  That's some crazy shit.  I was expecting something twice as good as the original Bioshock.  I was expecting a game that was more fun than Skyrim or Fallout.  I didn't get that.  I got a solid game that I thoroughly enjoyed.  Probably not going to be my favorite this year.  And I'm not alone in that sentiment.  One of my good friends says that now that he's played it, he actually prefers FarCry 3.

2.  It's not the game that I was promised two years ago, and it's not the same game I'm seeing in the trailers that are still playing on television.  The game looks like it got a complete overhaul.  Songbird wasn't the villain or the imposing force that I hoped he would be, similar to the Big Daddies in the first game.  The city didn't have that gross mockery of itself present in earlier trailers.  The vigors didn't operate the way I imagined they would.  The level of technology was too high, with the city floating because of "science" instead of practical science.  

This thread shouldn't be a circle jerk about the game.  I keep posting because I want a discussion.  Put your fucking hymn books down for a fucking second and let's actually discuss the game.

Why did Comstock decide he had to build the city in the first place, and why is he so convinced his blood has to rule it that he'll actually dimension hop to steal his own daughter?


----------



## Furious George (Apr 6, 2013)

martryn said:


> This thread shouldn't be a circle jerk about the game. * I keep posting because I want a discussion.  Put your fucking hymn books down for a fucking second and let's actually discuss the game.*



That's funny. 

You all but ignored my very long response to your post a few days ago. Sup with that?


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Apr 6, 2013)

Well, anyone that followed the game's development could see that Infinite had a pretty messy development cycle with important designers leaving and being replaced and the game being delayed quite some times. Plus it had to be censured as usual of a Ken Levine game except this time the censorship was a greater note.

That said, after replaying the game, I did realize that Songbird wasn't really used properly, especially for a shooting game. The gameplay climax just wasn't there.  It didn't really reached the expectation of the "Bigger Daddy Bird" boss concept they had going on. In that sense, Big Sister was better used as a recurring antagonist. Plus, the allegiance system was pretty simplistic and not the game changing element that Levine said it would be.

So yeah, it was overhyped and a little overblown by Levine but it's still the better game of 2013 in my opinion. And from a game that limited itself with the console FPS conventions, that's a fucking feat.


----------



## Delta Shell (Apr 6, 2013)

Wait there were actually people upset that there was no sex?


----------



## TylerDurden (Apr 6, 2013)

I've reached Fink's castle and fought three boss fights that followed up

How much longer will i finish the game?

Anyway, It's been awesome. It took a bit of time for me to adjust to its narrative technique (there were barely any cutscenes, it wasn't something i expected at the very least), but the voiceovers were really well-done and did a good job of complimenting the eerie tone of Columbia and its vices. Booker is a bit of a boring character so far (nothing more than ur average mercenary) but Elizabeth was a really fascinating character and the mystey behind her lockup keeps me intrigued. So far i have no friggin' idea as to how it would end and the potential of a mindfuck as some people have reported here is definitely a good sign.

Oh, and i bought the PS3 Version. Which means i got Bioshock 1 as well in the package. I haven't played it (i've only played the second one, i liked it, but if this game is nearly as hyped as it is then i'm in for another thrill-ride). I'm gonna sift through that one before getting back to a replay.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 6, 2013)

My art book and strategy guide arrived today. Both books look great, and the replica Freedom Key feels like it's great quality.


----------



## Naruto (Apr 6, 2013)

Well, some evil fucker purposely spoiled the end for me.

Now I will never get to enjoy this to the fullest.

Pretty damn depressed now.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 6, 2013)

What a douchebag.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 6, 2013)

easter eggs and other cool stuff you can find in the game


----------



## Krory (Apr 6, 2013)

Naruto said:


> Well, some evil fucker purposely spoiled the end for me.
> 
> Now I will never get to enjoy this to the fullest.
> 
> Pretty damn depressed now.



I am _so_ sorry. Like seriously. This is one thing I wish for no one to be spoiled. Friend of mine got spoiled and we cried.  Still, depending on what you were told (and really even not), it still warrants playing because experiencing and seeing it is still a vast improvement over just hearing about it. I still felt heavily impacted even though I felt it was predictable that...


*Spoiler*: _About Booker and Elizabeth_ 



Elizabeth was Booker's daughter, or Booker was Comstock. I didn't anticipate BOTH of them, albeit - I figured it was one or the other.


----------



## Krory (Apr 6, 2013)

.


----------



## Alicia (Apr 6, 2013)

Krory said:


> .



Damn it.... I'd say *spoiler alert* for the other people in this thread.


----------



## Krory (Apr 6, 2013)

The article mentions - in bold letters - about how it's only an hour into the game, if even that, so it's "light on spoilers" and isn't really anything about the story and spends half the video explaining what the point of the video is and standing in place.

And while I'm here...


----------



## Alicia (Apr 6, 2013)

Oh okay. The subtitle was suspicious enough and I immediately stopped reading it to prevent spoiling myself even though I don't own the game


----------



## MCTDread (Apr 6, 2013)

I just bought this game and the Bioshock Collection. I look forward to it.


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 6, 2013)

Naruto said:


> Well, some evil fucker purposely spoiled the end for me.
> 
> Now I will never get to enjoy this to the fullest.
> 
> Pretty damn depressed now.



U got no pity from me, Same shit happened to me.


----------



## Krory (Apr 6, 2013)

Suigetsu said:


> U got no pity from me, Same shit happened to me.



Your maturity is over-blooming, kiddo. I mean, is this so important to you that you have to go looking for "back-up?"


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 6, 2013)

Krory said:


> Your maturity is over-blooming, kiddo. I mean, is this so important to you that you have to go looking for "back-up?"



Look who's talking, are you feeling insecure about looking like a man but acting like a bugger sucker?


----------



## Krory (Apr 6, 2013)




----------



## Krory (Apr 6, 2013)

Meanwhile, in another reality...


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 6, 2013)

Krory said:


> Krory being krory.



Spoiler tag your shit. Your supposed to spoiler tag images of that size.


----------



## Krory (Apr 6, 2013)




----------



## Krory (Apr 6, 2013)

I've noticed that 99% of people...


*Spoiler*: _Light spoilers_ 



Pick the bird over the cage.


----------



## Krory (Apr 6, 2013)




----------



## Dionysus (Apr 6, 2013)

Quite the enjoyable game.


----------



## Burke (Apr 7, 2013)

Naruto said:


> Well, some evil fucker purposely spoiled the end for me.
> 
> Now I will never get to enjoy this to the fullest.
> 
> Pretty damn depressed now.



it is said that knowing the ending to something actually enhances the experience.



Suigetsu said:


> U got no pity from me, Same shit happened to me.



is that why your butt is so blatantly hurt?


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 7, 2013)

So when's the DLC due?


----------



## Krory (Apr 7, 2013)

No news yet, Pedokhris.


----------



## Stunna (Apr 7, 2013)

lol pedokhris


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 7, 2013)

okay then..

Also, Sex/Marital age is 15 in my country


----------



## Krory (Apr 7, 2013)

Whatever helps you sleep at night.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 7, 2013)

I sleep just fine brother


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 7, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Just wanna add, I LOVED the John Wilkes Booth statue and depicting Lincoln as a demon, think that really drove home the point about how racist these fucks were.


----------



## Krory (Apr 7, 2013)

^Yes! That was quite excellent.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 7, 2013)

I am probably late to the party.. but i am quite certain i read somewhere that some people claim this game to be racist


----------



## Krory (Apr 7, 2013)

*Spoiler*: _Racism_ 



The content of the game deals with American racism in the early 1900s - it _does_ take place in 1912. You'll see whites living it up while blacks are forced to clean. There are segregated bathrooms, there are signed indicating no Irish are allowed in certain places, you'll hear NPCs refer to others as "colored" or call Irish people "potato-eaters." Things of that nature. When you encounter the segregated bathrooms, Elizabeth does bring this up wondering why such a thing happened and Booker lamentably says it's "just the way things are."

There's also displays of events in Wounded Knee and the Boxer Rebellion that portrays the Native Americans and Chinese as stereotyped caricatures for the sake of brainwashing children into believing these racist things, and motorized robots of George Washington provide a racist narrative to these displays such as referring to the Chinese as "yellow in skin and belly" and "slanty-eyed" and desiring only to destroy patriotism.

So yeah, racism is definitely present in the game but it's not condoning it and the racism eventually leads to a lot of monstrosities later on.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 7, 2013)

That's what I thought too.. I mean it's no more racist that cussing/killing all those stereotypical middle eastern terrorists that hate 'Merica in CoD/BF


----------



## Krory (Apr 7, 2013)

_BioShock Infinite_ does it in a much more self-aware way, an obvious commentary on how shitty racism is and showing how sadly true such feelings and events were in that time. People are misinterpreting it as being genuinely racist. Then again, it's also been accused of being anti-American and anti-religious and too violent, so racism is the least of their problems right now.


----------



## Krory (Apr 7, 2013)

This is why I was looking forward to _Rainbow 6: Patriots_.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 7, 2013)

I haven't seen anything more than the debut trailer.. But it looks to have a pretty controversial premise, more than BI.. Not sure if you can make choices in it though..


----------



## Krory (Apr 7, 2013)

I loved what I saw of the premise. I really hope they didn't scrap it because of controversy, it was a step in the right direction. There really hasn't been much since that debut trailer - in November they were saying it would probably end up being a next-gen title but right now things aren't looking good.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 7, 2013)

Khris said:


> I am probably late to the party.. but i am quite certain i read somewhere that some people claim this game to be racist



Honestly some people are idiots, there is a huge difference between depicting racism and actually condoning it. If you could not tell the difference in the game , then you are going to have a bad time (unless you are a KKK/ Neo Nazi )


----------



## Suigetsu (Apr 7, 2013)

St. Burke said:


> is that why your butt is so blatantly hurt?



How would you know? Do you like to look at my big naked charming butt?


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 7, 2013)

Krory said:


> I loved what I saw of the premise. I really hope they didn't scrap it because of controversy, it was a step in the right direction. There really hasn't been much since that debut trailer - in November they were saying it would probably end up being a next-gen title but right now things aren't looking good.



I am more scared of them turning it into a dudebro mindless shooter with MP focus 



Dr.Douchebag said:


> Honestly some people are idiots, there is a huge difference between depicting racism and actually condoning it. If you could not tell the difference in the game , then you are going to have a bad time (unless you are a KKK/ Neo Nazi )



Stereotypes/Racism shouldn't be taken seriously in Media unless it's bluntly obvious..  

But like you and Krory said, it's depicting Racism at a time when there was Racism..


----------



## Furious George (Apr 7, 2013)

Dr.Douchebag said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanna add, I LOVED the John Wilkes Booth statue and depicting Lincoln as a demon, think that really drove home the point about how racist these fucks were.



One of my favorite parts of the game.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Apr 7, 2013)

St. Burke said:


> it is said that knowing the ending to something actually enhances the experience.



I'm more of the journey than the destination. I mean you can know the ending to something doesn't really mean you actually understood it without context of why it occurred.



Dr.Douchebag said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanna add, I LOVED the John Wilkes Booth statue and depicting Lincoln as a demon, think that really drove home the point about how racist these fucks were.





Krory said:


> ^Yes! That was quite excellent.




*Spoiler*: __ 



When I went through that spot I was thinking "why is there a statue of Booth here? This some sort of museum?" Then I realize these fuckers were serious. Actually if one thing I didn't caught on till I watched the episode of Spoiled Games where Adam was discussing about Bioshock Infinite, that these guys were worshipping the founding fathers as gods. When I was hearing names like Washington, I probably was half paying attention and thinking it was just some guy named Washington. Little did I know it was THE George Washington.

Columbia is essentially White America to the extreme.


----------



## EJ (Apr 7, 2013)

Yeah, I need to replay the game. Sooooo confused. I think I'm near the end.


----------



## Krory (Apr 7, 2013)

@Raidou - Yup. Pretty much. I got that impression from...


*Spoiler*: __ 



The GIANT STATUES of the "founding fathers" as soon as you get into Columbia.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 7, 2013)

Getting spanked in 1999 mode. Going for the trophy/achievement. 

The 2nd fight with Lady Comstock in the vault is no fun at all.


----------



## Zaru (Apr 7, 2013)

Why did this make me laugh so much


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Apr 7, 2013)

Elizabeth practically screams Disney princess throughout my head.


----------



## Krory (Apr 7, 2013)

Considering she looks identical to one...


----------



## dragonbattousai (Apr 7, 2013)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> Elizabeth practically screams Disney princess throughout my head.



If you have picked up the Premium Edition with the Artbook or the game guide, they do tell you that they designed Elizabeth around the Disney Princesses.


----------



## TylerDurden (Apr 8, 2013)

So i've been spoiled the twist of 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 Comstock = Booker


, but they don't look alike....i also couldn't fathom why both him and his girl appeared after we discovered Chen dead (well, before Elizabeth used the tear, that is)

Did songbird only appear at the end? i've heard his name getting mentioned a number of times by Elizabeth and i've gotten so deep into the game and strangely i've never seen him...

so far it looks like Fink will be the final boss somehow....

Maaan, i love this game, much better than Bioshock 2 in every way, the only think it lacks is probably the lack of cover system....(no one seems to have made a fuss about it, i'm curious), it doesn't detract me from the gameplay, tho'.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2013)

It doesn't have a cover system because it doesn't need a "system." Stand behind a wall like God intended if you want.

Songbird shows up I'd wager... three or four times? Then again, there's also all the signs and propaganda and children's toys...

And just lol at the rest.


----------



## Pineapples (Apr 8, 2013)

I apologize if this has been posted before, but a rather amazing Elizabeth cosplay:


This game is truly fantastic. I'll be replaying it many times for sure, did miss a lot of stuff.

*Spoiler*: __ 



My only complaint was, when I initially saw the first trailer two or so years ago, that I thought there would be a big climatic battle against Songbird. Its death was quite sad. It was also touching to see their connection at the end.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2013)

Well considering she _is_ Elizabeth, I would hope it's a good cosplay.  Though that one was before she became the character, so I guess a moot point.


----------



## martryn (Apr 8, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Well if you think the plot twist taken by itself in the "I didn't see that one coming!" kind of way is what is blowing people's minds about the ending than you might be missing it.
> 
> Honestly, I saw....
> 
> ...




I didn't mean to ignore it.  I missed it.  Sorry.

But, honestly, there's not much to say to this.  I was expecting some sort of plot development, twist or otherwise, to be revealed.  I didn't know to expect to be taken by surprise, or if it was going to be some sort of slow development and revelation of the characters' motives.  


*Spoiler*: _End game talk_ 



But I didn't think that the ending was very powerful.  The multiple worlds thing was hinted at heavily throughout the game, and they focused on that a lot, which was kinda boring as I felt the moment for that had passed.  Seeing other Bookers and other Elizabeths would have been more powerful if they reacted in some way.  Like another Booker looking at you and acting surprised, or maybe one of them acting hostile toward you in an attempt to disbelieve what was occurring.  The backstory reveals with Robert Lutece were sorta intriguing, but overall I think the ending sequence was weak in that it occurred without a lot of warning (didn't think the last fight was the last fight), and as the game was ending, I felt let down that there were things I hadn't experienced yet that I thought I was going to experience.




But no one has addressed the one thing about the plot I can't figure out: Comstock was told, in a vision, to build a city in the clouds.  But it is later implied that all his "visions" actually come from 


*Spoiler*: __ 



manipulating space-time




Why did he have to build a city in the clouds, and why does he think that it's going to go to shit if Elizabeth isn't the one guiding things.


*Spoiler*: _Elaboration with plot spoilers_ 



The game gives you the impression that future Elizabeth from the end of the game, the one standing over the destruction of New York City, was the one manipulating events, which is both the cause and effect.  How can she be both?  She wouldn't exist without manipulating Comstock to make her exist.  But if she doesn't exist to manipulate Comstock, she never exists.  This is true in all possible realities.  There is no reality for her to exist in with there be a reality where she exists to manipulate Comstock into existing, which requires.... a reality where she exists from manipulating Comstock into existing.

This is why I don't really like games dealing with time travel cause and effect.  Jumping from world to world like Sliders is fine, but once you bring time travel into it, I don't understand how things are possible.


----------



## lathia (Apr 8, 2013)

Call kotaku!



To all of those not pleased. Rant away.


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 8, 2013)

For those who follow TB


----------



## Furious George (Apr 8, 2013)

martryn said:


> I didn't mean to ignore it.  I missed it.  Sorry.
> 
> But, honestly, there's not much to say to this.  I was expecting some sort of plot development, twist or otherwise, to be revealed.  I didn't know to expect to be taken by surprise, or if it was going to be some sort of slow development and revelation of the characters' motives.
> 
> ...



Well, the ending being powerful isn't really a matter to discuss then and is just a case of disagreement.

I don't feel like it needed what you felt it needed. You seem to be really hung up on not being surprised by anything but I felt the surprises weren't the draw as much as the execution of the whole thing was. You also say nothing of character development or examination which was a huge draw at least for me.... so it seems you may have been looking for something that all the people who are in love with this ending were not. 

As for your plot conundrum.... 


*Spoiler*: __ 



It is never implicitly stated that Elizabeth is the "Archangel". For all we know, the Archangel could be a pigment of an obviously crazed man's imagination. We know for a fact that the reason Comstock seceded from the union had little to do with Liz and more to do with being dissatisfied with the way Merica' was headed. Whether some version of Liz actually is the Archangel is left open to interpretation. 

But even if some version of Liz is the Archangel, I don't see why you think the old Liz destroying New York was the Archangel. Nothing at all implies that that Liz was helping Comstock... The way it seemed to me was that that Liz was the exact same Liz you were helping throughout the game and her becoming crazed was only a result of you never having saved her... in this case, it was more time-travel than reality hopping. It had nothing at all to do with the Archangel. 




But you see, to me the questions you are asking are not only acceptable but they were designed to be asked. This is called open-ended discussion... and because a lot of thought was put into it I don't see it as a bad thing. Like I said in my other post, the unanswered questions the game leaves you with is not in the same spirit as, say, Mass Effect 3 or LOST. It was not born from a rush job or lack of real thought. Having unanswered questions should not automatically denote pot hole or inconsistency.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2013)

I agree with the round table with Adam Sessler, Ben Kuchera, and Arthur Gies when it felt like _BioShock_ had this Mega Man-esque or typical video game style of, "Hey, here's the ice level! Here's the fire level!" whereas _BioShock Infinite_ felt more natural in its areas. The progression was more natural, and probably because it didn't have the "CHOOSE YOUR STAGE!" Bathyspheres from the first game.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 8, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> For those who follow TB


----------



## Jena (Apr 8, 2013)

lathia said:


> Call kotaku!
> 
> 
> 
> To all of those not pleased. Rant away.



It's interesting to see the changes it went through. 

I know some people are pissed about how the promo stuff didn't match up with the actual game content, but why I give this a pass is that the changes were more artistic than they were in quality. Visual-wise, it's not like there's a noticeable dip. The changes that were made seem like things that came from a natural progression as they were working on the game. I could understand rage and butthurt if they did something like Alien Colonial Marines did where they _blatantly_ used demo footage that was better quality than the actual game to get people to buy the game, but that's not what happened here. 

Those are my two cents.


----------



## Zaru (Apr 8, 2013)

Yeah I immediately thought of Colonial Marines as well. There, the exact same things happened, but in much worse quality.

In Infinite, things happen differently, but at a great quality.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2013)

Jena said:


> It's interesting to see the changes it went through.
> 
> I know some people are pissed about how the promo stuff didn't match up with the actual game content, but why I give this a pass is that the changes were more artistic than they were in quality. Visual-wise, it's not like there's a noticeable dip. The changes that were made seem like things that came from a natural progression as they were working on the game. I could understand rage and butthurt if they did something like Alien Colonial Marines did where they _blatantly_ used demo footage that was better quality than the actual game to get people to buy the game, but that's not what happened here.
> 
> Those are my two cents.



This is basically how I feel. I can't complain about how it's not like the promo material because what we actually got was, at the very least, just as good. There are one or two things that vaguely disappoint me but when I start to think about those disappointing things, my mind just kind of drifts to some of the better things just naturally. Though yeah, this is nothing like CM where it seems like content was just cut out (Levine said whatever was cut was cut for a reason but who knows what reason that is), whereas when you compare CM to the original demos you can see that it's all the same scenes, almost identical in some regards, just severely downgraded.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 8, 2013)

hmm, interesting.  I guess the thought never occurred to me since I loved the game.  m


also one thing I'm curious about the end that I'm curious was confirmed or not
but Elizabeth can open tears because 
*Spoiler*: __ 



her pinky was in anotheru niverse so she existed in two universes right?


----------



## Furious George (Apr 8, 2013)

^ Yep              .


----------



## Byrd (Apr 8, 2013)

One thing I will say is that I like the final Character Design of Eliz better than the one shown in the promo


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2013)

Oh God, her original promo design... one of the most awful things I've seen. I think that's why I showed no interest in the game at first. It just looked _so bad_.


----------



## lathia (Apr 8, 2013)

I don't mind either design. In the demo she looked older and somehow it can easily put a different vibe to the character relation b/w Booker and her.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 8, 2013)

Krory said:


> Oh God, her original promo design... one of the most awful things I've seen. I think that's why I showed no interest in the game at first. It just looked _so bad_.



She don't even look human...Her face looks like its squish together


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> She don't even look human...Her face looks like its squish together



This, pretty much. She was even more disproportionate (dear Lord the size of her hand compared to her head? It was like an alien). Her hair was atrocious, and the overbearing eyeshadow make-up made her look like her eyes were sunken a foot into her skull.


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 8, 2013)

This game has screwed with my mind. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



The idea that Booker became Comstock is the part that I'm trying to get my head around. Granted, the Booker that we play as throughout the game isn't exactly the nicest guy around, but he had a kind of gruff, anti-hero appeal. Comstock, on the other hand, comes across as utterly hateful and a crazed tyrant. Both characters show that they can be cold and kill others when it suits their purposes, but the sheer fanaticism of Comstock seems like a long way away from Booker's often apathetic attitude. 

Maybe that's why I found it disturbing -- the idea that a person can turn into anything, even a monster, given the right (or wrong) circumstances. What did you guys think of the whole Booker/Comstock issue? At the moment I'm wondering if it's brilliant or misguided. Due to all the use of foreshadowing and dramatic impact, I'm edging towards the former, but I'll have to think about it more before I can come to a proper conclusion. That ending really threw me off balance.




At the moment I'll say that it's one of the most ambitious and striking games that I've ever played. The visuals, the music, the way the characters and the plot are tied together, etc. The shooting was the least interesting part of the game. Even though I'm still puzzling over the ending, I'm very pleased with the approach in this game. You can tell, from the very beginning, that it aims high -- it just feels different to the average game, due to the smart storytelling and direction. The ending was unsettling, but in a good way -- it sticks with you rather than just fading out of your mind.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2013)

(after having previously worked for Epic Games and Microsoft) to continue his mercenary career as a "closer." No word on where he'll head next.


----------



## Krory (Apr 9, 2013)

Just finished getting all of the Voxophones. Now it's time to start 1999 Mode!


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 9, 2013)

So did you fuckers. . .


*Spoiler*: __ 



Drown Comstock, or did you let him talk?


----------



## Krory (Apr 9, 2013)

Something I didn't notice before, just picked up on, that I _totally_ should have and everyone will point at laugh at me now...


*Spoiler*: __ 



...never put it together that the Luteces rigged the Possession Vigor (presumably).


----------



## Krory (Apr 9, 2013)

Also, just saw this screenshot posted on the official page and I know at least one or two people said they liked the concept, so here:


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 9, 2013)

"Shion" said:


> So did you fuckers. . .
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I waited for a few seconds, and then jumped in. I didn't realise Booker would kill him, although in hindsight I probably should have known. 

What happens if you just let him talk? I'm assuming that Booker would still drown him one way or another.


----------



## Burke (Apr 9, 2013)

he just keeps going

*Spoiler*: __ 



TELL HER
TELL HER BOOKER
TELL HER ABOUT THE PINKY SHIT



or something like that


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 9, 2013)

yeah,


*Spoiler*: __ 



it just keeps on going, without them talking. The same when Comstock takes your baby. You can listen to the Luteces for a min or so, then everyone just stares lol


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 9, 2013)

I thought the fucker would die regardless.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)




----------



## Death-kun (Apr 10, 2013)

That's awesome.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)




----------



## Overwatch (Apr 10, 2013)

"Get out!" lol


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

I don't know if I should watch it or not.


----------



## Overwatch (Apr 10, 2013)

You should. He says it's great.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Are you lying to me?

Because I'm 98% sure he'll rip it apart because it's his job.

Even the first _BioShock_, which he liked, he had to rip apart because people complain when he's nice to games.


----------



## Overwatch (Apr 10, 2013)

There are a few nitpicks about Vigors lacking context, Andrew Ryan being a better villain than Comstock and that the game may be a bit too pretentious but other than that I can easily imagine him putting it in his Top 5 of the year.



> Even the first _BioShock_, which he liked, he had to rip apart because people complain when he's nice to games.



He's an entertainer first and foremost. But in that regard he's like Bill Hicks.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

What's most interesting as that Andrew Ryan still wasn't even the main antagonist, really, of the first game. 

But yeah, just watched it. Lost my shit when he went, "_Get out_."


----------



## Alicia (Apr 10, 2013)

I am currently being attacked by Comstock's men after I powered the gondola station with shock jockey, all the while I've read through half of the spoilers you guys posted


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 10, 2013)




----------



## Zaru (Apr 10, 2013)

Daftvirgin said:


> I am currently being attacked by Comstock's men after I powered the gondola station with shock jockey, all the while I've read through half of the spoilers you guys posted



I liked that part, it was one of the largest freely usable levels in the game and there were many options to tackle the attackers.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> Are you lying to me?
> 
> Because I'm 98% sure he'll rip it apart because it's his job.
> 
> Even the first _BioShock_, which he liked, he had to rip apart because people complain when he's nice to games.



He's a Brit and he's got snark.

C'mon meow.

He went ballistic in praise of Spec Ops and STILL praised it.

This was nice. :33



> Don't you mean second sequel, Yahtzee?
> GET OUT!


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

Man, I can't stand that reviewer, he talks way too fast thus killing any entertainment factor. Plus, sometimes his logic is just bizarre, like his review of Arkham Asylum where he establishes he can't stand the concept of Batman and I'm just thinking, "then why play the game in the first place?"


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Doom85 said:


> Man, I can't stand that reviewer, he talks way too fast thus killing any entertainment factor.



That's the entire purpose. Hence why it's called _Zero Punctuation_.




> Plus, sometimes his logic is just bizarre, like his review of Arkham Asylum where he establishes he can't stand the concept of Batman and I'm just thinking, "then why play the game in the first place?"



He said he likes Batman but said that he had his doubts about Batman being able to be taken seriously considering how he runs around in his underwear and a cape and that he is the least interesting part of his comics (which is _true_). And this is kind of moot because he loved the game.

And he played the game because he's _a video game critic_. He's paid to play games and critique them humorously.


----------



## Stunna (Apr 10, 2013)

> and that he is the least interesting part of his comics (which is true)


no it's not


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

To each their own. Batman is extraordinarily droll and it's sad when a trapeze artist is more interesting than you. And Batman's villains are the strong point in the series, always.

Still a moot point.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

The place can be called whatever it wants to be, an annoying aspect is still an annoying aspect.

And what Stunna said, even if Batman isn't THE most interesting character of his comics doesn't make him the least interesting. And how can you have doubts about Batman being taken seriously when the vast majority of movie-goers and critics had no problem with it when they saw Nolan's Batman movies?


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Doom85 said:


> The place can be called whatever it wants to be, an annoying aspect is still an annoying aspect.



Then much like you ask why he plays the game about Batman when you claim he hates the concept of Batman (which is not true), why would you watch a video that's entire concept is about speaking fast and criticizing things if it annoys you? You're just being hypocritical now.




> And what Stunna said, even if Batman isn't THE most interesting character of his comics doesn't make him the least interesting. And how can you have doubts about Batman being taken seriously when the vast majority of movie-goers and critics had no problem with it when they saw Nolan's Batman movies?



Because, and this concept _might_ be a little difficult to grasp for you, people have different opinions. Gasp!


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

"he had his doubts about Batman being able to be taken seriously"

HIS opinion had nothing to do with it based on how you worded this, the statement above implies he had doubts that people as a whole could take Batman seriously which makes no sense given Nolan's success at bringing Batman to a wide audience. It would make no sense if that statement is meant to refer to himself, he either can take Batman seriously or he can't. I mean, he's a reviewer, he should know what his own opinion is.

Because when someone recommended the reviews to me, it was referred to as " Yahtzee", not Zero Punctuation. I didn't know what the reviews would be like going in, and I didn't like it so I stopped watching it and I'm just stating my opinion that he's not entertaining. Now don't call me a hypocrite when you don't know the whole story and kindly back the fuck off.


----------



## Alicia (Apr 10, 2013)

Looking for Chen Lin's cell. Will continue my playthrough tomorrow.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Doom85 said:


> "he had his doubts about Batman being able to be taken seriously"
> 
> HIS opinion had nothing to do with it based on how you worded this--



Actually if you're familiar with even the most elementary knowledge of the English language, that sentence says exactly that - it's HIS opinion. That's why they are HIS doubts, because it's HIS opinion. This is just common sense.




> Because when someone recommended the reviews to me, it was referred to as " Yahtzee", not Zero Punctuation. I didn't know what the reviews would be like going in, and I didn't like it so I stopped watching it and I'm just stating my opinion that he's not entertaining. Now don't call me a hypocrite when you don't know the whole story and kindly back the fuck off.



You watched at least two of them apparently, so one after you've already established you didn't like them. There's a fifteen second intro depicting the name of it. Now maybe if you stop acting like a pompous moron and take your head out of your ass, we can be done with this though I can see you're too dense to even have the vaguest ounce of common sense so it's the equivalent of talking to a brick wall except eventually the wall would give. Idiocy knows no limitations. Have fun with that.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

I appreciate a lady who appreciates Batman.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Now, moving on from someone who doesn't even _know how to read_...



Daftvirgin said:


> Looking for Chen Lin's cell. Will continue my playthrough tomorrow.



No.  You finish _now_. Shit's about to get real good.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Furious George said:


> I appreciate a lady who appreciates Batman.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

"The reviewer is both a Batman fan and a hater"
_"He perceives being both."_
"He finds this condition... disagreeable."


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> Actually if you're familiar with even the most elementary knowledge of the English language, that sentence says exactly that - it's HIS opinion. That's why they are HIS doubts, because it's HIS opinion. This is just common sense.
> 
> 
> You watched at least two of them apparently, so one after you've already established you didn't like them. There's a fifteen second intro depicting the name of it. Now maybe if you stop acting like a pompous moron and take your head out of your ass, we can be done with this though I can see you're too dense to even have the vaguest ounce of common sense so it's the equivalent of talking to a brick wall except eventually the wall would give. Idiocy knows no limitations. Have fun with that.



He's a REVIEWER! He shouldn't have doubts about such things! It would be like if Ebert had done a movie reviewer and said, "hey guys, Batman works well in the Nolan movies. Or wait, maybe he doesn't work well there. I dunno, figure it out for yourselves." The way you worded the statement was odd and the ONLY LOGICAL CONCLUSION would be that it was referring to other people's doubts, because as I've made very clear him having doubts makes no goddamn sense.

Or you were actually right, in which case the so-called reviewer can't even give a definitive opinion. If you're trying to defend his reviewing skills, you're doing a piss-poor job at it.

YOU started the personal attacks by calling me a hypocrite, so don't get all butthurt at me for defending myself. My guess is you're married or are related to/friends with Yahtzee or SOMETHING since apparently any criticism towards him sets your bloodlust off. Learn to deal with the fact that not everyone likes the same "entertainers", and go over your statements carefully when you post them since what you stated was a very confusing statement in regards to someone who is supposed to be a reviewer. It's not complicated.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Batman has become the most overused, overexposed, overappreciated, and overwanked comic hero I've ever seen.

Holy fucking shit since I've run the gamut amongst superheroes and anti-heroes, Batman's theme to me has absolutely lost any and all flair with me.  Kick bad guy's ass and he gets out and kills a dozen people.  Kick his ass again (Joker, Szasz, etc.) and lock him up and he's out and he kills more people.  Kick his ass again and lock up him and he gets out and he kills more people.

For fuck's sake at least the Punisher is final in his methods despite the brooding sulk.  I can't stand Batman anymore...I just can't.  There is no longer anything interesting about him.

Now concerning his attitudes, he's British and a gamer.  Snide comes with the territory.  He gives the ups and downs of most games and he's absolutely right about Batman.  Christian Bale's sandpaper voice also hurts Batman's ability to be taken seriously sometimes and that's without aesthetic.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

His pointy ears _are_ adorable, though. It's cute when he tries to be gruff looking like that.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> His pointy ears _are_ adorable, though. It's cute when he tries to be gruff looking like that.



Your mileage may vary depending on comic artist. :33

And the Batman games weren't bad, per se.  I just don't find Batman appealing anymore.  He's been wanked to high hell.  I fucking get it already.  I get the tropes.

Venom is more interesting than Batman ffs...and a whole lot cooler looking.

I did laugh how Yahtzee completely ignored BS2.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

I think people are upset because they think just because we say Batman can't be taken seriously by us, that it means the movies/games are bad.

And actually being _on-topic_ as opposed to the butthurt folk(s)...



I really, _really_ hope the implications here aren't what I think they are... but they probably are.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

Mael said:


> For fuck's sake at least the Punisher is final in his methods despite the brooding sulk.



And honestly its that finality to Punisher's method that makes him a boring character in my eyes. 

He's just a killer. There is no complexity or conflict behind it. Brutality becomes drull and samey when there is no "line". That's why, generally speaking, characters like that either get a sidekick to lighten the load (think _Berserk's _Guts and his fairy) or they fall into obscurity. 

Punisher is actually a lot more popular than he deserves to be. With good reason he never quite reached Batman/Superman status.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

Mael said:


> Batman has become the most overused, overexposed, overappreciated, and overwanked comic hero I've ever seen.
> 
> Holy fucking shit since I've run the gamut amongst superheroes and anti-heroes, Batman's theme to me has absolutely lost any and all flair with me.  Kick bad guy's ass and he gets out and kills a dozen people.  Kick his ass again (Joker, Szasz, etc.) and lock him up and he's out and he kills more people.  Kick his ass again and lock up him and he gets out and he kills more people.
> 
> For fuck's sake at least the Punisher is final in his methods despite the brooding sulk.  I can't stand Batman anymore...I just can't.  There is no longer anything interesting about him.



Oh god, I hate The Punisher. For one thing, gunfire is a combat style that generally does not translate well to comics compared to live-action or animation. Secondly, the character has just as, if not more, overhyped fanbase compared to Batman. Most of my friends who liked Punisher when they were kids/teens don't give a damn about him nowadays. Heh, he's kinda like Spawn in that regards.  Or pretty much most of the anti-heroes that were all "the rage" in the 90's.

And I find Batman far more interesting because he has a more challenging life. It's the easiest solution to blow someone's head off, far more challenging to let a deranged killer live as opposed to letting your emotions control you. There's a great scene in Under the Red Hood where Batman explains that even killing only the Joker would lead down a slippery slope. Far more thematically compelling stuff than just a dude who guns down criminals without a second thought.

Also, Batman does not run Arkham Asylum/Blackgate security, so why anyone thinks it's his fault that the villains manage to escape is beyond me.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

For the record, ladies and gents, I'm a Venom fan.  Venom will always be more alpha than the Punisher and a whole lot cooler in style, presentation, and mental state than Bet(a)man.

And you guys missed my point with the Punisher.  I know he's a killer...but I'm sorta sick of the rinse and repeat with people like Victor Szasz.  How many people does he gotta kill to just end the fucker's life?


----------



## Stunna (Apr 10, 2013)

I hope you're not including me as butthurt.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

The Punisher was interesting at first because when he came about, what he was and what he did was new. It was a sharp contrast to what we saw in characters around that time. Though you can only do so much with that.

Though I am intrigued in him now because I heard about the new Thunderbolts line-up for Marvel NOW! with him leading a team of Flash-Thompson-Venom, Deadpool, Elektra, and Red Hulk.

@Stunna - You're not butthurt, so you're not included. Duh.


----------



## Stunna (Apr 10, 2013)

Just making sure.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

Heh, not a Venom fan either. I mean, he's okay, but when people dare to suggest he's more important to the Spider-man mythos than the Goblin family or Doctor Octopus, I die a little inside. 

To me, Venom would have been way cooler if his build matched Spider-man's more that way fights between the two would feel more intense and even-matched. Instead, Venom is quite bulkier which throws off the "dark version" comparison for me. And I just kinda lost interest in Eddie Brock quite a while ago. I do want to read some of the recent comics with Flash Thompson as Venom because I think there could be some story potential there.

And, I know no one mentioned him, but Carnage sucks. I pray to god we never waste a live-action movie on that lame idea. When Sentry ripped Carnage to pieces in New Avengers' beginning, I know Carnage fans lost their shit, but I was all smiles and said, "see you later, fucker!"


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

Mael said:


> For the record, ladies and gents, I'm a Venom fan.  Venom will always be more alpha than the Punisher and a whole lot cooler in style, presentation, and mental state than Bet(a)man.
> 
> And you guys missed my point with the Punisher.  I know he's a killer...but I'm sorta sick of the rinse and repeat with people like Victor Szasz.  How many people does he gotta kill to just end the fucker's life?



Would you have him become the very thing he fights against, Mael? Would you?  


*Spoiler*: __ 








And I see your point but just do not agree. I can never get tired of Batman's moral dilemma. It always make for good drama even if it keeps getting revisited. 

Nor do I think that people liking a character too much (overexposure) is a good reason to not like said character.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Mael said:


> For the record, ladies and gents, I'm a Venom fan.  Venom will always be more alpha than the Punisher and a whole lot cooler in style, presentation, and mental state than Bet(a)man.
> 
> And you guys missed my point with the Punisher.  I know he's a killer...but I'm sorta sick of the rinse and repeat with people like Victor Szasz.  How many people does he gotta kill to just end the fucker's life?



It's kind of a slippery slope because albeit yes, it gets absolutely fucking ridiculous at how Zsasz as probably killed into the hundreds rather brutally and Batman is essentially like, "Bad Zsasz! Bad! Back to Arkham! Don't do this again!" I mean, even after trying to kill Alfred twice in the same span, Batman decides an inanely predictable set-up is more necessary, knocks him out and just sends him back to Arkham. Some of the villains aren't as bad but someone like Zsasz stands out like a sore thumb.

But at the same time, if you go killing willy-nilly like the Punisher then unless you play it extremely well you're going to be losing out on some villains and although some may get indeed quite tiresome, it'd suck to have to either think of more inanely convoluted escape or survival stories for a likable villain, or kill them off.


----------



## Burke (Apr 10, 2013)

this page has nothing bioshock related on it :c


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Again it's why I like Venom...plus he looks a fuckton cooler with that Hellsing sorta toothy smile. :33

But anyway back to Booshouck. 

Songbeeeeeeeerd.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

St. Burke said:


> this page has nothing bioshock related on it :c



I tried last page with this:



I don't like the implications of this but maybe I'm just reading too much into it.


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## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

I'd relax.  It's just twatter, a slight step above dumblr.


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## Fiona (Apr 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> I tried last page with this:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like the implications of this but maybe I'm just reading too much into it.



Sounds like something i would do


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## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

I guess you didn't even bother to read it.  Not that I should be surprised.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Fiona said:


> Sounds like something i would do



I don't like how it implies that the snarky guy probably said she didn't even play it because she's a lady in a gaming shirt.  It's something you hear far too often and it's sa-a-a-ad.

And you need to post here more, Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> I guess you didn't even bother to read it.  Not that I should be surprised.



I did read it. You just are really worrying about some form of implication that I fail to see.  Hipster gets snarky over video game, tweet tells of giving the hipster spoilers out of spite.  

What can be more advanced than that?


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

I know people get sick of sexism/gender-roles being brought up regarding games and the industry, but stuff like this just keeps it rolling. Like Elizabeth being moved off the front cover of Infinite, and Ellie almost being taken off the front cover of The Last of Us? Why is this bullshit happening?

Are most male gamers REALLY so sensitive to the idea of a woman having an important role in a video game? I don't think they are, but apparently some game companies think we're are all a bunch of 8 year-olds who still think cooties are a real thing.

Yes, there are a few women out there who "fake" being geeks. But to just assume all women who appear to be geeky are just "faking it" is a horrible mindset, it's no different than assuming all black guys might shoot you because a few black guys out there in the world have shot someone. Stereotypes are BAD, plain and simple.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Mael said:


> I did read it. You just are really worrying about some form of implication that I fail to see.  Hipster gets snarky over video game, tweet tells of giving the hipster spoilers out of spite.
> 
> What can be more advanced than that?



Well at least you proved me right.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Doom85 said:


> I know people get sick of sexism/gender-roles being brought up regarding games and the industry, but stuff like this just keeps it rolling. Like Elizabeth being moved off the front cover of Infinite, and Ellie almost being taken off the front cover of The Last of Us? Why is this bullshit happening?
> 
> Are most male gamers REALLY so sensitive to the idea of a woman having an important role in a video game? I don't think they are, but apparently some game companies think we're are all a bunch of 8 year-olds who still think cooties are a real thing.
> 
> Yes, there are a few women out there who "fake" being geeks. But to just assume all women who appear to be geeky are just "faking it" is a horrible mindset, it's no different than assuming all black guys might shoot you because a few black guys out there in the world have shot someone. Stereotypes are BAD, plain and simple.



I think it's mostly all in the publishers' heads. Look at what happened to _Remember Me_. Though I think more male gamers are like Mael - they believe if they just ignore it and don't talk about it, it will go away, because it's "not a big deal."


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Well what the hell is your point?  I read the tweet over and over again.  Guy in line was being a douche and she responds.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Three of us are talking about it actively, two of which have said flat-out what it is, and you still don't get the point? Your willful ignorance has reached a new point.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Now to break away from the rampant inanity a bit...

Did anyone (or is anyone planning to) print out/use any of the new alternate covers?


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## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> Three of us are talking about it actively, two of which have said flat-out what it is, and you still don't get the point? Your willful ignorance has reached a new point.



First off who is Rae Johnson?

Second, I still don't get how someone being a hipster about "not playing the game yet" has anything to do with sexism unless you simply imply that the hipster was thinking that women don't play those sorts of games.  If so, case in point, Jena. 

What I see is mere speculation of an argument without establishing the mens rea of the hipster.  It's a 50/50 shot.  

Res ipsa loquitur.

I think the both of you are reading WAY too much into this.


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## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

.

This shit is always great.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

And seriously, fuck you guys if you think I'm simply waiving this off like sexism doesn't exist in gaming.  I just happened to interpret it as a single person being a hipster douche.  I've already stated that sexism exists but not in this horrible patriarchal fuckfest you'd see from a tumblr post.  I don't know how many times I need to repeat my stance that while it's an issue it's not this cataclysmic implication from ONE TWEET.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

Are we reaching that point in the gaming community where any and everything done that seems to belittle a female gamer is because she's a woman? Like that whole "if a white guy beats up a black guy its a hate crime" deal?


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 10, 2013)

I'm not printing out any of the covers. The alternate cover we already got with the box is my favorite anyway.


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## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

Oh wow, that's cool. Not a Minecraft fan, but still really cool.

Mael: I personally think it's far more likely the guy was being sexist than a hipster. I mean, I kinda assume quite a few hipsters would think Bioshock Infinite is "beneath them" or whatever bullshit they wanna spew.

Furious George: Like I said in an earlier post, gender roles/sexism will be less prominent a topic once the industry/companies themselves shape up, but they're still flawed in many aspects there.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 10, 2013)

Bioshock Infinite ain't underground enough for hipsters.

Hell, it's not even _on_ the ground!

*ba-dum-tssh*

Thanks guys, I'll be here all day, every day.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Are we reaching that point in the gaming community where any and everything done that seems to belittle a female gamer is because she's a woman? Like that whole "if a white guy beats up a black guy its a hate crime" deal?



I don't know but I don't really believe the implications behind this tweet.  It's a 50/50 shot that the guy is just a fucking douche.  And in this case, it's her opinion vs. the hipster's opinion and I'd rather not have it be a witch hunt that if any slight is made on a female who games or a female character constitutes to this horrid patriarchal, misogynistic conspiracy.

I mean seriously, wake the fuck up.  We have larger issues of feminism out there.

I guess it's my life being a rape/sexual assault victim advocate for over five years that sees this sort of shit as *FUCKING. TRITE.*  What a douche I am I guess...



			
				Doom2 said:
			
		

> Mael: I personally think it's far more likely the guy was being sexist than a hipster. I mean, I kinda assume quite a few hipsters would think Bioshock Infinite is "beneath them" or whatever bullshit they wanna spew.



And that's your call.  It's a 50/50 shot.  I tend to err on the side of just being an asshole like "oh well I know gaming and you don't lol."


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Are we reaching that point in the gaming community where any and everything done that seems to belittle a female gamer is because she's a woman? Like that whole "if a white guy beats up a black guy its a hate crime" deal?



Though we're at a point where it usually _is_ and if we embrace the thought process like those of Mael where, "If we just ignore it, it will go away because it's not a big deal." then we'll just get more of this. The guy was a dick regardless but on what other basis would that even be a reply? If it was something that wasn't so widely popular than the hipster argument would hold more water, and if it weren't for the fact that the same type of conversation is had all too often because a woman decides to wear a "nerdy" or "geek" or "video game" t-shirt. It's not always the case but if it is the case in even one out of ten times and we choose to just "let it slide because it's not a big deal," then things will never change. It's not surprising that we are probably reaching that overexaggerative point when there are two teams of opposition - aggressors and neutrality - that go about underplaying even the things that are glaringly obviously an insult to women because, "nobody cares." We're in a state where there are still plenty of people who think it wasn't a big deal that _Remember Me_ was turned down numerous times for having a female lead, that people are being stupid for getting bothered by publishers trying to force characters like Ellie and Elizabeth to the back of covers because they were women so it's no wonder everything seems like a big deal when there's still so many who think even the most obvious problems simply art. It's a see-saw effect and as Doom said, until _anything_ changes this kind of shit will continue.




Death-kun said:


> I'm not printing out any of the covers. The alternate cover we already got with the box is my favorite anyway.



Well fuck you, too.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 10, 2013)

Which ones do you wanna print out?


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## Fiona (Apr 10, 2013)

Matty = Master Manipulator


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

> Though we're at a point where it usually is and if we embrace the thought process like those of Mael where, "If we just ignore it, it will go away because it's not a big deal." then we'll just get more of this.



Shut. The Fuck. Up.

Where did I say ignore this?  I simply theorize that it cannot be automatically attributed to sexism.  You're the one on the inquisition.  Where have I said it's a complete non-issue despite my claim that in the grander scheme of things in my experiences dealing with rape and sexual assault on the PHYSICAL PLANE OF EXISTENCE is still a bigger deal?

All you're doing is saying this is an immediate issue over a tweet that is open to interpretation.  Where in this did the hipster, beyond a reasonable doubt, imply an anti-female stance in all this?  Where did he say girls can't be gamers or play Bioshock?

Your problem is lack of solid evidence, merely speculation.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> Which ones do you wanna print out?



I like the _Falling Art_ one, the _Songbird_ one, and _Elizabeth 2_.




Fiona said:


> Matty = Master Manipulator



You spelled "masturbater" wrong.

Or is it "masturbator"?


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 10, 2013)

Firefox says neither "masturbator" or "masturbater" are words.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

You know what, let's make it simple. The guy was being a douche. If he didn't want to be seen as possibly sexist, he shouldn't have been a douche. Just like the "white guy beats up a black guy" point, well if the beating was unprovoked, then fuck the white guy. Even if he's not a racist, he still beat up someone for no good reason, so I'm not losing any sleep if he gets accused of committing a hate crime.

Also, geezus christ, our neighbor's dog is LOUD. I know no one gives a shit, but just felt like mentioning it.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> Firefox says neither "masturbator" or "masturbater" are words.



Well then.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Doom85 said:


> You know what, let's make it simple. The guy was being a douche. If he didn't want to be seen as possibly sexist, he shouldn't have been a douche. Just like the "white guy beats up a black guy" point, well if the beating was unprovoked, then fuck the white guy. Even if he's not a racist, he still beat up someone for no good reason, so I'm not losing any sleep if he gets accused of committing a hate crime.
> 
> Also, geezus christ, our neighbor's dog is LOUD. I know no one gives a shit, but just felt like mentioning it.



It's one way of looking at cause-in-fact.  We don't know his motive, thus we can only speculate.  To say though that I'm in complete dismissal because I happen to differ in opinion is fucking ludicrous though.  

And it's very faulty you don't lose sleep at the problem of being accused of a hate crime if his mens rea doesn't prove accusations of racism.  Everything is about proof both physical and mental.

It's amazing when you learn about law...you start to dissect logic.  Chilling, I know.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

I don't lose sleep over it because I believe in a very simple phrase one of my friends uses: "Don't start no shit, and there won't be no shit!"


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

I think in general, people just need to stop saying stupid shit that will come back to bite them in the ass.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

Doom85 said:


> You know what, let's make it simple. The guy was being a douche. If he didn't want to be seen as possibly sexist, he shouldn't have been a douche. Just like the "white guy beats up a black guy" point, well if the beating was unprovoked, then fuck the white guy. *Even if he's not a racist, he still beat up someone for no good reason, so I'm not losing any sleep if he gets accused of committing a hate crime.*



Wow, couldn't disagree with this attitude more.

Not only is it wrong because its untruthful and can potentially sully a person's name beyond what is warranted (like if a guy gets drunk, fights a black guy he is forever labeled an awful racist... truth is he might just be a mean drunk, but the racist label is far more damaging than just drunk), but if I'm not mistaken it makes a huge difference in sentencing time/fine amount.

We jail people under specific crimes for a good reason. A burglar is NOT a rapist, it doesn't matter that both of them were "douches" for what they did.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> I think in general, people just need to stop saying stupid shit that will come back to bite them in the ass.



Microsoft Creative Director Adam Orth just found that out the hard way.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> I think in general, people just need to stop saying stupid shit that will come back to bite them in the ass.



Now you're making sense.

And who even gets hipster over Bioshock ffs?  It's one of the best-selling games of March and April atm and most gamers already know about it.  I mean if you said something like Limbo then maybe you'd have a case but no...not this.  

Hipsters do need to die in a fire regardless.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Doom85 said:


> Microsoft Creative Director Adam Orth just found that out the hard way.



He more learned "The internet can never take a joke."


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Wow, couldn't disagree with this attitude more.
> 
> Not only is it wrong because its untruthful and can potentially sully a person's name beyond what is warranted (like if a guy gets drunk, fights a black guy he is forever labeled an awful racist... truth is he might just be a mean drunk, but the racist label is far more damaging than just drunk), but if I'm not mistaken it makes a huge difference in sentencing time/fine amount.
> 
> We jail people under specific crimes for a good reason. A burglar is NOT a rapist, it doesn't matter that both of them were "douches" for what they did.



Kinda jumping to conclusions there. I never mentioned the law or legal procedures. I meant what the general public thinks. Should have made that more clear, but you still shouldn't have assumed I was talking about the actual court/police and such.

Also, I never mentioned alcohol. So let me make this as clear as possible: if a white guy, who is completely sober and not on anything, beats up a black guy (or anyone) with no provocation whatsoever, then FUCK THAT WHITE GUY.

No one pointed a gun at this dude and told him to make an asshol-ish remark about the girl's shirt. He made a conscious decision of his own free will to be a jerk-off. He doesn't have my sympathy, plain and simple, so if he mistakenly gets called sexist then big whoop. If he wants to clear the air, then he should apologize and set things right. Until then, my stance remains.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

> you still shouldn't have assumed I was talking about the actual court/police and such.



But in the end, in a civilized society, that's what should matter most, not a witch hunt.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

There was a time, on the subway ride home from work, I saw a girl wearing a Triforce shirt. 

I asked her if she played Zelda games... not in a particularly condescending way. It was polite and I was honestly curious. I just don't know many female gamers... but I would not have asked that question if she was a guy. 

Do you guys feel like I was being sexist? Why or why not?

Serious question.


----------



## Magic (Apr 10, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Nor do I think that people liking a character too much (overexposure) is a good reason to not like said character.



Hipsters disagree.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

I don't think you were.  For starters, you weren't negative in context.  Secondly, you were probably more curious as to her level of knowledge of the Zelda franchise and maybe wanted to strike up a discussion.

What you say is open to interpretation, but a reasonable person can believe that your commentary was not meant in sexism unless evidence proves otherwise.

Fucking tort logic...flawless.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

Furious George said:


> There was a time, on the subway ride home from work, I saw a girl wearing a Triforce shirt.
> 
> I asked her if she played Zelda games... not in a particularly condescending way. It was polite and I was honestly curious. I just don't know many female gamers... but I would not have asked that question if she was a guy.
> 
> ...



Even if you weren't being sexist, it wasn't a smart move. Because she might be thinking, "I'm wearing a Zelda shirt, why would he think I haven't played any of them?" And then the situation would go downhill from there.

But hey, that's just me, I'm sure analytical about ANYTHING I say to someone I'm talking to (in real life, less so on the Internet) in regards to what their mental response could be to it. Often to the point where I'm just being sorta paranoid. I remember one time I asked my friend if this thing I had said to him a week ago upset him, and he was like, "why on earth would that upset me?" and I go, "I dunno, my mind works in crazy ways!"

But regardless, I would have asked her which Zelda games she had played, since plenty of people have played them but not all of them. If I had automatically started talking about Twilight Princess and that was one she hadn't played then I would feel kinda silly.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

Doom85 said:


> Kinda jumping to conclusions there. I never mentioned the law or legal procedures. I meant what the general public thinks. Should have made that more clear, but you still shouldn't have assumed I was talking about the actual court/police and such.



A the end of the day, how the legal system views the whole thing is very important. Our laws are always reflective of our values. 

Besides, I also mentioned what the racist accusation does to a person's reputation on a social level.



> Also, I never mentioned alcohol. So let me make this as clear as possible: if a white guy, who is completely sober and not on anything, beats up a black guy (or anyone) with no provocation whatsoever, then FUCK THAT WHITE GUY.



If a person beats up another person without provocation he should probably be labeled as mentally ill. Assuming he wasn't mentally ill though, even such an evil dickhead would not deserve the title racist unless there was evidence that he was, in fact, racist.



> No one pointed a gun at this dude and told him to make an asshol-ish remark about the girl's shirt. He made a conscious decision of his own free will to be a jerk-off. He doesn't have my sympathy, plain and simple, so if he mistakenly gets called sexist then big whoop. If he wants to clear the air, then he should apologize and set things right. Until then, my stance remains.



Its an illogical stance from where I'm sitting, but whatever.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Doom85 said:


> Even if you weren't being sexist, it wasn't a smart move. Because she might be thinking, "I'm wearing a Zelda shirt, why would he think I haven't played any of them?" And then the situation would go downhill from there.
> 
> But hey, that's just me, I'm sure analytical about ANYTHING I say to someone I'm talking to (in real life, less so on the Internet) in regards to what their mental response could be to it. Often to the point where I'm just being sorta paranoid. I remember one time I asked my friend if this thing I had said to him a week ago upset him, and he was like, "why on earth would that upset me?" and I go, "I dunno, my mind works in crazy ways!"
> 
> But regardless, I would have asked her which Zelda games she had played, since plenty of people have played them but not all of them. If I had automatically started talking about Twilight Princess and that was one she hadn't played then I would feel kinda silly.



Then if anything it only forces people to never engage in any sort of discussion for fear of hurting someone else's feelings regardless of intent.  It's the most PC, the poisonous PC, way of thinking.  I mean, why bother with the concept of debate and intellectual curiosity if we have to assume that any mere mention of curiosity outside of the context of gender and gaming will hurt feelings?  What you propose is the kind of caving in that the tumblr social justice twerps would advocate, where someone's rights end where their feelings (as overreacting as they probably are) start to get hurt or offended.

It is absolutely paranoid.  A reasonable person would infer the question is more a statement on the level of interest behind the Zelda franchise.  

We're entering an age where civil discussion is immediately met with scrutiny.  This is very fucking unsat.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Your tone sounds like you doubted it because you didn't know many female gamers, and although you felt you were polite whenever you ask someone something like that in a situation like that it is out of doubt just as much as curiosity. You were curious because you doubted it and the doubt was raised purely because of her sex - something you just openly admitted in your post, at least that's the impression I get. Could have just as easily asked what her favorite Zelda was, or ask if she played the most recent one or something along those lines if you wanted to engage in conversation.

Not saying you were rude or crude, but it is an inherently sexist remark, even though we've probably trained ourselves to view such questions and thoughts as innocuous... but that doesn't change the essence of what they are.

I don't think you're like the fellow in question here, who was just outright rude about it and was more harmful in his assertion (if we assume that is what he meant). Yours was, yes, essentially harmless... doesn't make it not sexist in even the vaguest amount because your assumption was based entirely around her general and your perception of said gender in this situation. Sexism by definition is a thought process or belief that based around gender stereotypes and the stereotype is that most women don't play games. Though I don't think you really meant it that way or were trying to be, but it is what it is.

Just my view.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

Wow Mael, you took that shit WAY too seriously. Lighten up, dude. I never said everyone has to engage in conversations the exact same way I do, however exercising a little foresight and caution about what we say before we say it is obviously a wise way to live life. If you just go around spouting out what immediately comes to mind, your number of friends is going to start dropping significantly.

Regardless, the girl reacting that way would be perfectly reasonable. I mean, if I was wearing my Justice League shirt and someone asked, "hey, do you like Justice League?, my obvious reaction will be in my head, "why the fuck would they think there's a reasonable chance that I don't like Justice League?"


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

There are, of course, those "hip" people who wear things they think looks cool, like yes, the Tri-Force is a common one.

What really sets it up and changes things, though, is George admitted it was because she was _female_ and he didn't know many female gamers. Although not harmful, it is based around a _stereotype_ and that's what sexism is. People think sexism is really just violent or rude or vulgar behavior and it's absolutely not.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> Your tone sounds like you doubted it because you didn't know many female gamers, and although you felt you were polite whenever you ask someone something like that in a situation like that it is out of doubt just as much as curiosity. You were curious because you doubted it and the doubt was raised purely because of her sex - something you just openly admitted in your post, at least that's the impression I get. Could have just as easily asked what her favorite Zelda was, or ask if she played the most recent one or something along those lines if you wanted to engage in conversation.
> 
> Not saying you were rude or crude, but it is an inherently sexist remark, even though we've probably trained ourselves to view such questions and thoughts as innocuous... but that doesn't change the essence of what they are.
> 
> ...



Only if you can prove his mindset was wrapped around the fact she's a female can you properly infer it was an inherently sexist remark.  She might wear the shirt for fashion's sake.  She might not be too knowledgeable of Zelda and his inquiry was to see how invested she was into the franchise.

It's so open-ended that to me automatically assuming that because the subject is a woman that the inference to the inquiry is about the question of gender and thus regardless of tone inherently sexist is quite unfair.  It's actually reactionary and again alludes to the overt PC attitude I've been seeing poisoning aspects of free speech and casual conversation.

Get off tumblr you kids.  It's a den of retardation.


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 10, 2013)

I really liked the soundtrack for this game. Some great tracks. 

I also didn't catch the ways that some of the lyrics applied to the narrative in the game (aside from _Will the Circle Be Unbroken?_, which was most clearly relevant). Some people () pointed out particularly fitting lines in _Girls Just Want to Have Fun_: 'Some boys take a beautiful girl / And hide her away from the rest of the world / I want to be the one to walk in the sun'.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

Mael said:


> I don't think you were.  For starters, you weren't negative in context.
> 
> -snip-
> 
> Fucking tort logic...flawless.





Doom85 said:


> Even if you weren't being sexist, it wasn't a smart move.
> 
> -snip-





Krory said:


> Your tone sounds like you doubted it because you didn't know many female gamers, and although you felt you were polite whenever you ask someone something like that in a situation like that it is out of doubt just as much as curiosity.
> 
> -snip-
> 
> Just my view.



Cool. You each responded in the way I imagined you would.  

My feelings are sort of split on my behavior that day. 

If she would have gotten a little raw about the whole question I could always make the "well people always wear pop-culture symbols without understanding them!" argument and be justified... but still doesn't change the fact that it would not have went down like that if she didn't have breasts.

Like Mael, I tend to be slow to label things as sexist/racist/homophobic because I respect how powerful those labels can be. *Too* powerful to throw around after a single conversation/altercation, in most cases.

But what Krory says is true in that sexism does not have to be inherently rude or scathing to be sexism.

I guess my thoughts come down to feeling that all forms of sexism (or racism for that matter. I say this as a black guy) do not elicit the same degrees of retaliation. Whether sexist or not, what I did that day did NOT deserve to be met with serious offense or harsh feelings IMO....

Which she didn't, btw. We ended up having a long conversation about the best Zelda and Comic-Con and all that.  By the end of the ride I could tell she wanted me to ask for her phone number, but she wasn't all that attractive to me so I didn't.  

Than I felt bad.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

_Fortunate Son_ was another strongly appropriate one.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 10, 2013)

I listened to "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" a ton of times after playing Infinite. 

Great Youtube comment to the video: "I first heard this in 1912."


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Also the Arthur Gies round table pointed out the irony if _Shiny, Happy People_ playing primarily when bad shit goes down.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

_Tainted Love_ is still best.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

I need to get back into my 1999 Mode playthrough.

But now I have an itch to play _Dark Souls_.


----------



## Stunna (Apr 10, 2013)

Furious George said:


> _Tainted Love_ is still best.



Still wrong.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

George Michael > your suggestions.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

Because one Brit's take on _Infinite_ did not derail this thread enough, here's TotalBiscuit's final thoughts.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Jorge de Furioso, you and I see completely eye-to-eye on this.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

I watched a bit. 

The gist is that _*"he can't call it an amazing game because the gameplay feels like an intrusion to the story. Its one of the best stories ever told by a video game, but its NOT a great game."*_

I hear this sentiment a lot now about the shooting mechanics and I have to say... I do not agree at all.

I acknowledge that it doesn't reinvent the wheel or anything but I had a blast fighting in this game and am not at all put off by it in my second playthrough.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Maybe we could pull a _Spec Ops: The Line_ and say, "Oh it was totally supposed to be that way, making it a perfect game." 

Yahtzee put the combat better in his critique.


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 10, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Because one Brit's take on _Infinite_ did not derail this thread enough, here's TotalBiscuit's final thoughts.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

Dream Brother said:


> I didn't watch the whole video, but from what I heard he actually sounded quite balanced about it -- enjoys some areas, criticises others. I normally don't bother with Youtube reviewers, but this guy makes some sensible comments. I actually do agree with him about all the combat; I don't think it damages the story to the extent that he argues, but I did want less of that and more interaction/conversations instead.



Yeah, TB always makes sensible points... that's one of the things that I'm afraid of. If anyone can honestly find a way to rip this game to shreds, its him. And I don't want anyone to make me love this game any less. 

In all seriousness, I do actually have some problems with this game but they are never quite the problems that everyone else has with it. I'm trying to write a review but haven't found the time or the words.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

I gave up on writing a review.  No one cares anyways.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> Maybe we could pull a _Spec Ops: The Line_ and say, "Oh it was totally supposed to be that way, making it a perfect game."
> 
> Yahtzee put the combat better in his critique.



Funny you mention that...TotalBiscuit absolutely praised SOTL with just saying there was nothing revolutionary about some of the gameplay and just has an issue with mouse acceleration.

So his commentary on Bioshock I'll take pretty well as well.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNrsT57Xnq8[/YOUTUBE]


			
				TB said:
			
		

> This might be actually one of the first games in a long time that I bothered to finish, especially from a shooter's standpoint.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

Going off of the demo, I have to say Spec Ops: The Line did nothing for me. 

I know the draw is the plot, but the gameplay mechanics were just so off-putting. Not acceptable like a Bioshock game, understand, but they just seemed bad. I want to fight through it and just play the game anyway, but it is hard. 

Sorry, Mael.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Going off of the demo, I have to say Spec Ops: The Line did nothing for me.
> 
> I know the draw is the plot, but the gameplay mechanics were just so off-putting. Not acceptable like a Bioshock game, understand, but they just seemed bad. I want to fight through it and just play the game anyway, but it is hard.
> 
> Sorry, Mael.



Whatevs.  The demo was either a marketing clusterfuck or an intentional mislead.  Your call.  To play Devil's Advocate...can't really spoil much of that story with the demo so their hands were tied.

Eh, they weren't bad...just basic.  Bioshock won in that category hands down, especially with the sky hook. :33  But you weren't supposed to hold SOTL to the gameplay and instead enjoy the best narrative in game for fucking years and the first game to successfully make gamers feel like pieces of shit.  It's a descent into hell...much akin to Rapture.

Bioshock contrasted in the city in the clouds grandeur with a couple ideological talking points and a better linear ending than Inception that's for damn sure that'll actually leave you optimistic.

Remember though BS and SOTL are both overlorded by 2K so either way it's a win for 2K and we gamers.  It just matters how much of a piece of shit you felt like and to me that's powerful. :33


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Furious George said:


> Going off of the demo, I have to say Spec Ops: The Line did nothing for me.
> 
> I know the draw is the plot, but the gameplay mechanics were just so off-putting. Not acceptable like a Bioshock game, understand, but they just seemed bad. I want to fight through it and just play the game anyway, but it is hard.
> 
> Sorry, Mael.



They were bad _on purpose_, though. It was supposed to be hip and edgy and all that jazz and it suckered everyone, from the looks of it. I guess much like old school Resident Evil, poor gameplay is "genius" in the right context.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 10, 2013)

SOTL is not meant to be fun. It uses everything it has to hammer home the banality of its genre. It's not a game for people without the will to go through the fire for a damn good story.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> They were bad _on purpose_, though. It was supposed to be hip and edgy and all that jazz and it suckered everyone, from the looks of it. I guess much like old school Resident Evil, poor gameplay is "genius" in the right context.



Right and Tomb Raider was just that too...a hipper and edgier Lara.

It's that the developers realized they couldn't beat the titans of CoD or BF by gameplay alone, so they put in some core mechanics, nothing revolutionary but just something that worked, and stuck with a revolutionary story instead.

I don't need my socks rocked off by a new combat system.  I need a mindfuck story and they delivered.  Now you're just getting desperate.



Lord Yu said:


> SOTL is not meant to be fun. It uses everything it has to hammer home the banality of its genre. It's not a game for people without the will to go through the fire for a damn good story.



Someone gets it.  You don't play for the cover gameplay.  You play because the story is drawing you in and you need to pay attention to everything that's going on.  You don't read _Heart of Darkness_ and only look at how many sentences Conrad fit into a paragraph or his punctuation.  You read it to explore the psychology.

The game, as compared to BSI, is supposed to be fucked up.  BSI is supposed to present a game that's out there and whimsical.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

Lord Yu said:


> SOTL (a video game) is not meant to be fun.



 

So many places I can take this statement, but this thread is sidetracked as it is. 

I am still interested in this game though... I'll play it eventually since its cheap.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Furious George said:


> So many places I can take this statement, but this thread is sidetracked as it is.
> 
> I am still interested in this game though... I'll play it eventually since its cheap.



If you want a story, play it.  Otherwise, don't play it just as a shooter.

Now, with BSI...it begs the question if they're ever going to make another Bioshock with another extreme.

BS1/2 were Rapture and Infinite was Columbia.

The next could be in spess.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 10, 2013)

Mael said:


> If you want a story, play it.  Otherwise, don't play it just as a shooter.
> 
> Now, with BSI...it begs the question if they're ever going to make another Bioshock with another extreme.
> 
> ...



Assuming there is another Bioshock game at all.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Furious George said:


> So many places I can take this statement, but this thread is sidetracked as it is.
> 
> I am still interested in this game though... I'll play it eventually since its cheap.



Prepare yourself because yeah, the gameplay is ridiculously dull even though they try so hard to amp it up with music, yelling of dudebro phrases, and a handful of slow-motion action sequences. But just keep in mind it was all done on purpose to be ironic ("deconstruction" for the hip crowd), which I guess makes it okay.

And _BioShock_ should just end here.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> Prepare yourself because yeah, the gameplay is ridiculously dull even though they try so hard to amp it up with music, yelling of dudebro phrases, and a handful of slow-motion action sequences. But just keep in mind it was all done on purpose to be ironic, which I guess makes it okay.
> 
> And *BioShock* should just end here.





> *dudebro phrases*



This just confirms you know precisely shit and are just reciting from some idiotic social justice tumblr user.  I know your stances on feminism come straight from it but fucking Christ you couldn't be more wrong.



> slow-motion action sequences



What slow-mo action sequences?  



> amp it up with music



On the contrary...the music in the game is not always really there to amp.



> ("deconstruction" for the hip crowd)





God you're dumb.  You're not even getting the deconstruction context right.  It's a deconstruction of the mentality behind shooter games...not the mechanics.

Just shut up about the game altogether.  I bothered to play both, you can't be fucked apparently.  I know games are your life but you really shit the bed on this one.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

Then again, knowing 2K, when Levine refuses to budge on another game they'll get another half-wit development team to make another equally half-wit sequel.

And then they'll force multiplayer into it. Because clearly, games without multiplayer _never_ sell.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> Then again, knowing 2K, when Levine refuses to budge on another game they'll get another half-wit development team to make another equally half-wit sequel.



Now you're just trolling.  But hey, I guess you know better than Yager.

Stick to tumblr, kiddo.  It seems to be all you're good for.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2013)

They've done it to _BioShock_ already.  How do you think _BioShock 2_ got made? Levine refused because he felt there was no reason to go back to Rapture, so they got one of their fledgling first-party devs to make a sequel and told them to add multiplayer because multiplayer is all the rage.


----------



## Mael (Apr 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> They've done it to _BioShock_ already.  How do you think _BioShock 2_ got made?



BioShock 2 wasn't awful despite what people said.  It was just flawed in its placement of context whereas Infinite was unrelated and a fresh start.  The way you had it you were taking a crack at another thing but honestly, BS2 isn't the pile of shit everyone thinks it is.  Obviously MP in games that are meant more for powerful story and thematics (because seriously neither Uncharted or Tomb Raider really break the mold in either so MP is more fun) are going to be faulted, but I enjoyed BS 2 for what it was worth.  Is it better than Infinite?  Not by a long shot, but it wasn't shit.


----------



## Grape (Apr 11, 2013)

I was kind of disappointed with Infinite. It's still a pretty decent game, but I expected more. I _really_ hate the rail system.

The voice acting was rather impressive, particularly Elizabeth's actor.


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2013)

The multiplayer was almost as lazy as _Dead Space 2_'s (which was a carbon copy of _Left 4 Dead_'s multiplayer concept), and it basically copy and pasted the concept and flow of the first game because they really just had no ideas. If you drew parallels between _BioShock_ and _BioShock 2_ you'd just be drawing the same line. All they removed was the predictable Atlas = Fontaine twist and made the new Ryan-face, Sofia Lamb, the main villain - except Ryan had a vastly more entertaining personality whereas Sofia is essentially a poor man's version, embodying the "Well, I can do it better" belief system of follow-up villains for cash-in sequels (which is exactly what _BioShock 2_ was, regardless of what you think the quality of the game is). Not that the first game's commentary on Ayn Rand wasn't glaringly obvious (dear God, just look at Andrew Ryan's name) but _BioShock 2_ came into the territory of beating a dead horse with Rand's corpse. They removed any real semblance of drama for the sake of continuing the series that the original creators knew well enough should be left alone.

Even the climax was an identical mirror in the transformation sequence, having to find the pieces of the Big Sister outfit to turn Eleanor into one compared to having to change Jack into a Big Daddy.

The only reason _BioShock 2_ could be considered a good game is because it basically still _is_ the first game, only dumbed down.

It was just lazy, but as I said regardless of what one thinks of a quality it is a fact that the game was made solely for the reason to try and continue the series even when Levine and his team refused to continue it. Multiplayer was added only because they thought it was what was popular at the time (claiming they polled people and everyone said they played games for multiplayer).

At least like with _Spec Ops: The Line_, 2K had the common decency to have a different developer do the multiplayer. The difference is _BioShock 2_'s single player certainly didn't benefit from it like _Spec Ops: The Line_ did.


----------



## Grape (Apr 11, 2013)

We played Bioshock 1 and then Infinite back-to-back. I liked Infinite's storyline more and I have mixed feelings on game play dynamics. I think I liked the original skill set more than the Vigors, for the most part lol. I love Crows, Charge and Bronco though. I miss the wrench. Glad hacking is gone. It was fun for a while but it became extremely tedious.

BS1 was bloated as shit. I could not wait to finish it for the last 30% of the game and the final boss was a joke.

Haven't played BS2, because we heard it's basically the same as the first. I wouldn't have played the third game if it took place in the same environment as it's siblings.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 11, 2013)

While I do think Bioshock 2 was good, but definitely nowhere near as good as 1 or Infinite, I will give it this: the hacking was FAR better than the nonsense-style of hacking they had in 1.


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2013)

Probably because _BioShock 2_'s hacking was so simplistic that even my dog could do it.


----------



## Grape (Apr 11, 2013)

BS1 hacking was easy, it was just annoying to do it all the time.


----------



## Mael (Apr 11, 2013)

If Lara's gonna wear a cap with an L on it, at least make it Luigi's color scheme.


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2013)

But Luigi never gets the girl, unless it's out of sympathy.


----------



## Grape (Apr 11, 2013)

Luigi been banging the princess behind Mario's back for decades.


----------



## Mael (Apr 11, 2013)

I will not take such slight to the accuracy of the matter.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 11, 2013)

Grape said:


> I was kind of disappointed with Infinite.



And I'm disappointed in you.


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2013)

Rosalind: He's not enjoying the game.
Robert: He will eventually.
Rosalind: I suppose he does.


----------



## Alicia (Apr 11, 2013)

The skyhook is very disorienting, mainly because its an fps and I'm bad with fps games. 

idk the combat is.... not really exciting for me. I try shooting the bad guys but they take cover so I can't hit them. If I move out to them, I get shot to death. When I take cover, I can't see shit and the bad guys sneak up to me, emptying their clips at near point blank distance. I think the lack of a proper cover system is my biggest issue in this game. 

Either that or I just suck terribly at fps games and I should lower the difficulty to easy


----------



## Aruarian (Apr 11, 2013)

You should just sell the game and watch a playthrough on youtube.


----------



## Slice (Apr 11, 2013)

I always was under the impression that i suck at FPS. And i had absolutely no problems beating Infinite on 'hard'.

I also dont get how people defend (or even want) cover systems in every game, it works for stuff like Gears of War when the whole game is designed around it but has no place in FPS. If people want "cover" they should just walk behind a box or around a corner.


----------



## Alicia (Apr 11, 2013)

Yes well, as I said, I can't aim while staying behind a box or wall.


----------



## Slice (Apr 11, 2013)

My usual FPS playstyle is "run at them all guns blazing and run away if your health gets low to regenerate"

I perfected this playing countless hours of Quake3: Arena and it served me well over the years. [/nostalgia]
Games today being much slower paced (well, compared to Quake _everything_ is slower) only makes it easier.


----------



## Mael (Apr 11, 2013)

Awwww but I like the skyhook.

WHHEEEEEEE!


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 11, 2013)

Slice said:


> My usual FPS playstyle is "run at them all guns blazing and run away if your health gets low to regenerate"



I'm this way too, but charging at them to hit with melee weapons instead. I like to save ammo for when I "really need it". Then I often end up going overboard and having way too much by the end than I possibly need. I'm the same way with JRPGs, not using consumable health items and the like unless I absolutely have to to have them ready for the final dungeon, and then I have way too much by the end and sometimes forget to use the best consumable battle items.


----------



## Aruarian (Apr 11, 2013)

Melee in this game is kinda buttcheeks, though. Even with the Vigor.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 11, 2013)

I dunno, unless it was turrets or sub-bosses, I managed pretty well. Set the poor bastards on fire with my skyhook and laugh at their agony, good times.


----------



## Slice (Apr 11, 2013)

Doom85 said:


> I'm this way too, but charging at them to hit with melee weapons instead. I like to save ammo for when I "really need it". Then I often end up going overboard and having way too much by the end than I possibly need. I'm the same way with JRPGs, not using consumable health items and the like unless I absolutely have to to have them ready for the final dungeon, and then I have way too much by the end and sometimes forget to use the best consumable battle items.



Ever played Demons / Dark souls?
Those games make you _really_ value your consumable items. :amazed


----------



## EJ (Apr 11, 2013)

Definitely should be up their for one of the games of the year. But it didn't live up to the hype. Not that it's a bad thing, but the combat was just....ugh


----------



## Mael (Apr 11, 2013)

Flow said:


> Definitely should be up their for one of the games of the year. But it didn't live up to the hype. Not that it's a bad thing, but the combat was just....ugh



Eh I don't think so.  Like how I treated SOTL, the combat system did its job and BSI gets a bonus point for the raw chaos you could create in lulz with the skyhook, vigors (despite them losing their appeal), and knocking douchebag Founders/Vox enemies off the ledge.   I will admit that Ham Hands (that "cyborg" enemy I nicknamed) makes the combat a little Team Fortress 2 but that's just me.


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2013)

When in doubt, Murder of Crows.


----------



## EJ (Apr 11, 2013)

I didn't like having to use the sky line or whatever it's called to get from one location to another to kill people. It was useful though, when I had to retreat to get away from the handyman or another group of enemies that were outgunning me.


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2013)

Some people just hate fun.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 11, 2013)

Slice said:


> Ever played Demons / Dark souls?
> Those games make you _really_ value your consumable items. :amazed



Haven't got around to that series yet.


----------



## Aruarian (Apr 11, 2013)

You know what's fun? Planting multiple traps. Crows + Fire + Bronco = SWARMS OF PHOENIX RAPE


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 11, 2013)

Did you guys also:

*Spoiler*: __ 



find it humorous when you passed by a certain tear and AC/DC was playing?


----------



## Zaru (Apr 11, 2013)

^ There should have been more (semi-hidden) peeks at and references to modern times.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 11, 2013)

I thought they had the proper amount. Too much more and it might feel like pandering.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 11, 2013)

Zaru said:


> ^ There should have been more (semi-hidden) peeks at and references to modern times.



Made me realize the whole universe of the game.

Gave me a good laugh, too.


----------



## Zaru (Apr 11, 2013)

Difference I noticed: The ambulance tear scene was in the early gameplay trailers, but with the "Return of the Jedi" in english. In the final game, it was in Paris and with the movie title in french. Makes me think the whole "let's go to Paris" part was just a random whim later on in the production process.


----------



## Alicia (Apr 11, 2013)

Zaru said:


> ^ There should have been more (semi-hidden) peeks at and references to modern times.



Might as well have Elizabeth bring in modern assault rifles


----------



## Zaru (Apr 11, 2013)

Daftvirgin said:


> Might as well have Elizabeth bring in modern assault rifles



Would have been hilarious to get some modern weapons for a few minutes as a way to parodize modern military shooters. Or any weapon from Rapture.


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2013)

Maybe in DLC.


----------



## Mael (Apr 11, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Would have been hilarious to get some modern weapons for a few minutes as a way to parodize modern military shooters.



2K already did that. 



> Or any weapon from Rapture.



Or the Big Daddies.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 11, 2013)

The Big Daddies.

That would've been fucking fantastic.


----------



## Zaru (Apr 11, 2013)

Krory said:


> Maybe in DLC.



Touring parts of Rapture as Booker? I'd buy it.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 11, 2013)

Knowing whether this game was a sequel, prequel, or spin-off? 

I'd buy that too.


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2013)

Well, there _was_ a Big Daddy.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 11, 2013)

Krory said:


> Well, there _was_ a Big Daddy.




*Spoiler*: __ 



yeah, as a possible eventually.


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2013)

I'm not sure if that sentence was meant to make sense or not.


----------



## Mael (Apr 11, 2013)

Krory said:


> Well, there _was_ a Big Daddy.



 Not according to this in Infinite.


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2013)

You guys didn't look hard enough. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



When Elizabeth kills Songbird, you can see through the water to another connecting tube - there's a dead Big Daddy with a Little Sister tugging on him trying to get him to wake up (or some people say she's crying), symbolizing the relationship between Elizabeth and the Songbird and the parallels as well as differences.


----------



## Alicia (Apr 11, 2013)

fuck I opened that spoiler tag without thinking


----------



## Mael (Apr 11, 2013)

Krory said:


> You guys didn't look hard enough.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...





I meant also more an actual playable thing or interactive thing...though the symbolism there is pretty good on Irrational's part.


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2013)

Rule of thumb, Daft: Never open a spoiler tag in a thread about a game you have yet to beat.


----------



## Alicia (Apr 11, 2013)

but meh, you've already spoiled the entire game before anyways (even though I deliberately requested it).


----------



## Mael (Apr 11, 2013)

I personally think there is a threshold between what becomes legit to spoiler tag and what doesn't.  If six months or a year passes after a game and then talking about it creates a complaint from someone who didn't want the spoilers, too fuggin' bad you had all the time in the world to play the game.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 11, 2013)

Im with this guy, ^


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2013)

Agreed, though this game has only been out for about two to three weeks.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 11, 2013)

Daftvirgin said:


> fuck I opened that spoiler tag without thinking



Dude how many times have you been spoiled in this thread even though we have been keeping things in spoilers? maybe come back after you've finished the game?


----------



## Grape (Apr 11, 2013)

I don't know why people even read the thread if they haven't beat the game. I avoid game threads like the plague until I finish, because I expect there to be untagged spoilers, never mind clicking a spoiler...lol


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 11, 2013)

Fuck you mother fuckers.... Just got to this part and saw THIS.


----------



## Krory (Apr 11, 2013)

Told you, Shion.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 11, 2013)

Gave it the finger for added effect...


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 11, 2013)

Recently started my 1999 playthrough gotta keep an eye out for as many cool things I may have missed :x


----------



## Stunna (Apr 11, 2013)

lol, Grape pretending he's played the game


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 11, 2013)

I eat Grapes for breakfast.


----------



## Alicia (Apr 12, 2013)

Finished the game. Loved the sudden crescendo of mindfuck and alternate dimensions at the end


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 13, 2013)

Loved how you killed it for those who haven't beaten it yet.


----------



## Magic (Apr 13, 2013)

Woooo finally got around to beating the game.

Last fight on hard mode is a bitch, must have retried 50 times. Saw the ending coming and still loved it. 10/10


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 13, 2013)

Them Patriots.


----------



## Magic (Apr 13, 2013)

Bingo^
*Spoiler*: __ 



 I kept losing during that last part because of those shits.

Used um 2x melee vulnerability+ water grab+ maxed out charge attack (the green ram)+machine gun/chain gun the weak point and finally cleared those suckers.


----------



## Alicia (Apr 13, 2013)

"Shion" said:


> Loved how you killed it for those who haven't beaten it yet.


I didn't spoil anything. 


RemChu said:


> Woooo finally got around to beating the game.
> 
> Last fight on hard mode is a bitch, must have retried 50 times. Saw the ending coming and still loved it. 10/10



I barely made it on medium difficulty lol.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 13, 2013)

RemChu said:


> Bingo^
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



I don't know how to explain what the fuck I had, but here goes:


*Spoiler*: __ 



I maxed out shock jockey, Machine Gun, shotgun, and Ram vigor. 

Plus, I had the gear that boosts my gun's power after I kill someone for 10 seconds which =one shot Kill with shotty, and it'd get stronger with every kill.

So I'd shock the patriots and the current would link to everyone else which gave me free shots at weaker peeps, then focused on the patriots after repeated shocks and ramming.




Simple, brutal, and lots of bodies hitting the wall.

Same as the sex.


----------



## Alicia (Apr 13, 2013)

I had to sprint across the deck and use my Possession vigor on one of the patriots and then shoot the other patriot until it died. then concentrated on the other patriot as Possession wore off. 

When overwhelmed I called Songbird to attack the deck to give me some time to recover. 

Once the wave was down I turned my attention to the Vox Zeppelin;


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 13, 2013)

Imagine if handymen were in the last stage....jesus my strategy for fighting them was : run like hell,squeal like a little girl,fire random bullets everywhere and hope they die . The order would vary ofc


----------



## Burke (Apr 13, 2013)

i wish they were
there's only like 4 in the whole game and the last battle could have used atleast one vox populi handyman

the patriots weren't even a problem, they just focus that power shit so when they walk past you volley gun spam their gears.


----------



## Alicia (Apr 13, 2013)

omg these handymen were a pain in the ass to kill. I just kept charging them with the ram vigor and spam carbine/burstgun/repeater


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 13, 2013)

Lol I love elizabeth's expressions, when you two are going to board lady comstock's zepplin towards the start of the game and you go to the ticketing line she literally has a  expression


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

So I'm told there's some "anti-_BioShock Infinite_" movement from indie game fans/community-goers because the game is "too violent."


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 14, 2013)

i guess. I just think its the reactionary squad trying to attack video games for being videogamey


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

Well it's made a big enough splash that some people like Jim Sterling have done articles on it and I'm seeing an alarming number of posts on Twitter and such about people now being ashamed to be part of the "indie community."


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

"Bioshock is so flawed, so horrendous, so damaging, yet sits @ 94% metacritic. It's clear that we have drank our own Kool-Aid pretty hard." - Kris Piotrowski

"By "we", I mean "we, the game people." All of us. Bioshock Infinite isn't the answer to our problems. It is the best example of them."

"No, I am worried that there was almost ZERO critical discussion of the game, when the game is so charged with problematic content."

"We need to point at Bioshock and say that it is fucked PRECISELY becuase it is trying to tell us that it is not."

"Just for the record: I fucking LOVE AAA games. I just don't love them blindly. Skyrim, Borderlands, Halo, Gears of War, StarCraft, etc, etc." - Kris (again)

"It's interesting. A lot of press think it's perfect, devs think it's atrocious, and consumers think it's "pretty good"" - Jonathan Holmes

"there was a massive eruption of criticism earlier today from us NY folk. It's funny to see the same opinion from devas." - Shawn A. Allen

"I think this abhorrence of any sort of attempt at progress is itself deeply damaging to any of us being taken seriously." - Tom Forsyth

"We tell ourselves the game is supposed to be important magic, and we can't let ourselves be wrong. Can't agree more." - Dave Thier

There's a lot more from Kris but I can feel my IQ being chiseled away since it's clear he just has an agenda to try and "critique" the game and he's trying to get people to do that by flat-out bashing it and calling it one of the worst games ever conceived.


----------



## manwiththemachinegun (Apr 14, 2013)

So what is everyone's problem with the fucking ending? I haven't played any of the Bioshock games and the ending seemed pretty clear to me.


*Spoiler*: __ 



The main hero is also the main villain, just from a different universe where he underwent a Baptism and shifted the blame from all the bad he'd done to some kind of wacky religion based on the Founding Fathers. The girl he's protecting is really his daughter, and he finally chooses to kill himself so Columbia is never made and he can atone for giving up his kid. 




Like, Looper was harder to follow. I don't mean that as praise, Looper was a piece of cake. 

Are people just dumber these days or something? This is like basic Ray Bradbury fun with time travel.


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

I've never seen anyone say they had trouble following the ending.


----------



## manwiththemachinegun (Apr 14, 2013)

So what's people problem with it then? On all these gaming news sites and Youtube I see nothing but, "ENDING ANALYSIS! CLICK HERE IF YOU WANT SENSE MADE OF THIS CURHAZY GAME!"

*shrug*


----------



## Magic (Apr 14, 2013)

Krory said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know none of these people and anybody who's anybody won't care about their opinion.


----------



## Jena (Apr 14, 2013)

Krory said:


> So I'm told there's some "anti-_BioShock Infinite_" movement from indie game fans/community-goers because the game is "too violent."


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

manwiththemachinegun said:


> So what's people problem with it then? On all these gaming news sites and Youtube I see nothing but, "ENDING ANALYSIS! CLICK HERE IF YOU WANT SENSE MADE OF THIS CURHAZY GAME!"
> 
> *shrug*



Don't know. Having seen anything as bombastic as that. I see a lot of analysis of the game as a whole as there are a lot of things to pick up on in the game on your second or third playthroughs. The only thing I've ever seen people not get is some people miss how the Luteces became the way they are (and some people didn't pick up on who Robert is).




RemChu said:


> I know none of these people and anybody who's anybody won't care about their opinion.



Me either.


----------



## Magic (Apr 14, 2013)

If they are devs...some of the criticism is likely jealously. Jealous of the success...


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

You know, when I first played the game I chose the bird... when I got it for the 360 I went with the cage and I have to say I appreciate said cage more.

But every screenshot and clip and animation I see is of Elizabeth with the bird.

That disappoints me.


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

RemChu said:


> If they are devs...some of the criticism is likely jealously. Jealous of the success...



I think that Kris fellow is an indie dev. I haven't looked TOO extensively at what all the hubbub is about that's just what I gathered from one conversation.

I think we've officially reached a point where we can start calling some indie devs "hipster devs."


----------



## Magic (Apr 14, 2013)

The cage represents a prison. So everyone naturally picks the bird. 

Heads or Tails 



Krory said:


> I think that Kris fellow is an indie dev. I  haven't looked TOO extensively at what all the hubbub is about that's  just what I gathered from one conversation.
> 
> I think we've officially reached a point where we can start calling some indie devs "hipster devs."



Figures, he is "indie" and hates this game for being triple AAA and yet good.

From an art stand point I found the themes and look of the game very solid. Really can't see the reason for these complaints. This isn't Call of Duty Black Ops 120


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

It's also a remembrance of things past. If you forget your past, you're doomed to repeat it. Or however that trite saying goes. Could be a symbol of triumph, a sign of something one has transcended or went beyond. I guess the bird is just more simple, more straight-forward.

Or I'm just too fucking dumb and need to stop reading into things too much. This seems more likely.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 14, 2013)

I never pick the cage. Liz is trying to get away from that, the bird is representative of what she wants to be.


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

I appreciate the somber aspects of the cage, though, for the reasons I've already iterated so I'm going to try and _not_ be a broken record here.


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

on the indie-dev fiasco.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 14, 2013)

OMAIGAWD BIOSHOCK INFINITE IS A VIDEO GAME WHERE YOU SHOOT PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO KILL YOU. TEH HORROR.

Damn hipster fucks. These "new age" people are damn annoying.

They try and sound like they have something to say but they just try and look cool by going against what everyone else is saying.

"Bioshock infinite is a great game with a great story, i much enjoyed the world, plot twists and i didn't have much issue at all with the gameplay when i played it"

"NO BIOSHOCK INFINITE IS A TERRIBLE GAME THAT SHOWS EVERYTHING WRONG WITH THE GAMING INDUSTRY! SHOOTYBANG IS THE DEVIL"


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

Some more nifty comments:

"BioShock Infinite wants to be taken seriously so, so hard it hurts." - Martin Hollis

"I really didn't fancy playing the grind of what my friends told me is just another FPS, so I watched the movie. I enjoyed it!" - Someone with Supermono Studios

"Seems a lot of people are projecting onto BioShock Infinite what they want it to be. Seems to me it's just a pretty shlockfest. And why not?" - Alex Wiltshire

"I am an important BANG game. I really am. BANG. You believe me BANG? BANG. BANG. I am sincere. BANG BANG. Take me seriously. RATATATATATAT." - Martin Hollis

"KEPOW KEPOW KEPOW PEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWW *CRASH* *SPLINTERRING* ARGH." - Martin Hollis

More people probably no one has heard of.


----------



## Magic (Apr 14, 2013)

From the article. 





> We should be clear to separate this from Piotrowski's comments, but some  swipes at AAA games by indie devs smack of barely veiled jealousy; or  rather, frustration. It's very simple to view the mainstream gaming  press - as absurd as that definition is in the internet age - as  obsessed with AAA console games, dedicating little editorial to  lesser-known indie games.



Indie devs jelly.


----------



## Magic (Apr 14, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I never pick the cage. Liz is trying to get away from that, the bird is representative of what she wants to be.


In a way she is always caged.

Caged to fate....


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

That was deep, yo.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 14, 2013)

She was able to change her own fate through Booker, multiple times actually  that's something.


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

Unless this was her fate all along, unbeknownst to us all.

DUN DUN DUUUUUUN.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 14, 2013)

Well, infinite possibilities and all that 

Anyways, if yahtzee of all people doesn't have much to complain about game wise, then i know your fucked


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised with his video.

Though let's face it, the "_*GET OUT*_." was the golden moment.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 14, 2013)

Of course. Bio2 deserves it.

His opinion on that game is the same as mine


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

I feel bad whenever I trash it because I legitimately loved the character of Eleanor, but the fact that it was a lazy copy of the first game with a shoehorned multiplayer makes me cringe so much.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 14, 2013)

Krory said:


> So I'm told there's some "anti-_BioShock Infinite_" movement from indie game fans/community-goers because the game is "too violent."


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 14, 2013)

Idk if posted before but...


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 14, 2013)

I find it hilarious that one of the "over-reaction of hatred" comments came from a former Goldeneye development team member. Hey man, when Goldeneye came out, that game wasn't my cup of tea. But I didn't lose my shit just because tons of people loved the game. I was just happy that it was making so many gamers happy and left well alone. Maybe you should do the same.


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 14, 2013)

Infinite has been getting criticism from all over the place, not just indies. It's just that those guys are being more vocal and dicks about it. On neogaf there were multiple threads that discussed what Infinite should/shouldn't have been; yeah let's just forget Irrational has any say in this >_> 

The two main criticism are:

"Infinite is just another simplified shooter (like CoD >_>). Disappointing." Well, guess what? Bioshock is a shooter franchise. Always been. Nothing more, nothing less. Those saying Bioshock 1 has deeper combat mechanics are deluding themselves. No. Hack mini games, plasmid-weapons switching, ammo variations don't make it deeper, but clunky and tedious. And what's this fixation on having deep combat mechanics in a shooter anyway? In a shooter I want to shoot people and have fun while doing so. There's a reason games like Doom, Quake, Duke, HL, Unreal etc are still fondly regarded. They're not bogged down by silly modern mechanics. (I guess the lieks of CS, UT, TF and Q3 can qualify as "deep", but only because they have steep learning curves.) Hell, I see people complaining that Valve games and Halo (iirc the pistol had one) games still don't have any iron sights implemented  So, here's a game that has arena-based combat and offers you non-stationary dynamic fast-paced ways to dispose of your foes and yet people shout "just another CoD!!!".

The other would be "ludonarrative dissonance". I might be one of those rare people who first heard about this term this year - I think it was regarding Uncharted or Tomb Raider. Ironically it originates from Bio 1. Apparently it's one of the biggest problems in modern (blockbuster) gaming. I don't know. I'm mainly gameplay person myself, so if I enjoy the gameplay then I don't really mind if the "narrative is at odds with the gameplay". Suspension of disbelief, I guess. It didn't bother me when after an emotional moment Elizabeth tossed salt at me, or was in bright mood picking a lock like nothing happened beforehand. It was in her routine, scripting and I accepted that. It's probably not an easy task to taylor a game around this, scripting and all that. Spec Ops did a pretty good job with Walker, but the game wasn't fun, wasn't intended to be in the first place and its critics still call it out on it. So there.


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

"Bioshock Infinite: an exploration of racism, religion & American exceptionalism told through the eyes of a man who eats garbage sandwiches." - Kumail Nanjiani

Considering who it is, I'm pretty sure this one is meant to be a joke.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 14, 2013)

That actually sounds spot on, to me. ^


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 14, 2013)

I don't even understand where this narrative dissonance bullshit ever comes from. Comstock's soldiers and the Vox are trying to kill booker, booker is a former solider of wounded knee and is pretty much a hardened veteran. How does that not fit with the narrative of an FPS where you shoot people?


----------



## manwiththemachinegun (Apr 14, 2013)

Because a game isn't art unless you're a French writer who dies alone of alcoholism while moaning how life is meaningless. 

Or some such.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 14, 2013)

This game turned me into a hate-mongering, racist, xenophobic, overly religious, communist zealot with an affinity for firearms and genetic modifications.

I'm gonna go shoot up a school now to spread my message of the magical city in the sky.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 14, 2013)

I love this game because I get to kill white people constantly 





















is what the critics of the game think the fans of the game say


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 14, 2013)

Those fascist children are shooting at robot Washington and robot Lincoln!


----------



## manwiththemachinegun (Apr 14, 2013)

Dr.Douchebag said:


> I love this game because I get to kill white people constantly
> is what the critics of the game think the fans of the game say



You mean unlike every other FPS where you kill hundreds of white people?


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 14, 2013)

No, that's Arabs, blacks and terrorists. That makes it okay.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 14, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> No, that's Arabs, blacks and terrorists. That makes it okay.



Pretty much


----------



## Jena (Apr 14, 2013)

You can't criticize anything about America ever, even if it's not actually about America. Because freedom.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 14, 2013)

I actually heard in a Eurogamer article, that US weapons manufacturers don't let game publishers license their guns if intent to create a game that "portrays either America or its armed forces in any negative light".

The conservative pro gun lobby has many connections to our hobby my friends


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 14, 2013)

I read . 

His main problems with the game seem to be that he thinks the scene where you throw the ball lacks subtlety and depth, and that the game trivialises historical events like The Wounded Knee Massacre. He then claims that it revels in violence while pretending to be something more sophisticated.

I'm still thinking about the first two charges, but as for the third one -- I think all the violence in the gameplay is reflected in the themes of the actual narrative. Violence is a key part of both Booker and Comstock. (It's also significant in regard to the Vox Populi and Daisy's character.) I'm usually not a fan of shooters, but I think that in this case the action is justified. However, would I exchange some of the shooting for more dialogue/interaction? Yes. I feel like they could have done that without negatively impacting the game's themes. 

I do like how the game is provoking so much detailed debate, though. I haven't seen people react this way to a game in a long time. Even the negative reviews/articles are still taking the game seriously and offering food for thought. ()


----------



## Jena (Apr 14, 2013)

I disagree with the Wounded Knee thing. That had such a huge emotional impact on Booker. It's also kind of the point – when you're at the museum (or whatever) and there are all the displays about Wounded Knee, it's trivializing and warping an event that Booker reveals (through dialogue at that scene and later in the game) was so horrifying that it haunts Booker. Like seriously, that _is_ the point – if Booker trivialized the massacre, he wouldn't have felt the need to be baptized in the first place. And if he becomes Comstock, he applies his racist twist on reality to justify to himself what he did at Wounded Knee. If he doesn't become Comstock, he defines himself as a broken, morally ugly, irredeemable killer because of what he did at Wounded Knee.


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 14, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I don't even understand where this narrative dissonance bullshit ever comes from. Comstock's soldiers and the Vox are trying to kill booker, booker is a former solider of wounded knee and is pretty much a hardened veteran. How does that not fit with the narrative of an FPS where you shoot people?



It's not even Booker who gets brought up regarding this the most, but Elizabeth. You have these emotional moments with her, yet afterwards during regular gameplay she acts like nothing happens. She still pick locks in a cheery manner, she still tosses you stuff. Maybe they could have recorded different lines in different tones for these, but honestly this feels really like nitpicking.


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

Jena said:


> I disagree with the Wounded Knee thing. That had such a huge emotional impact on Booker. It's also kind of the point – when you're at the museum (or whatever) and there are all the displays about Wounded Knee, it's trivializing and warping an event that Booker reveals (through dialogue at that scene and later in the game) was so horrifying that it haunts Booker. Like seriously, that _is_ the point – if Booker trivialized the massacre, he wouldn't have felt the need to be baptized in the first place. And if he becomes Comstock, he applies his racist twist on reality to justify to himself what he did at Wounded Knee. If he doesn't become Comstock, he defines himself as a broken, morally ugly, irredeemable killer because of what he did at Wounded Knee.



One of the things I remember most, which is really amazing how they captured the essence of it as we are unable to see Booker's reaction due to it being first-person, is _Elizabeth's_ reaction. And not even to what she sees in the display. How she reacts to _Booker_, how she just says in sudden realization by looking at him, "You were there." It was so undeniably simple yet had a huge impact on the character of Booker and really engrained the Wounded Knee massacre and Booker's involvement and feelings about it and the way that she said it made it really easy to imagine the look on Booker's face.


----------



## lathia (Apr 14, 2013)

There is always a man... always a lighthouse. God damn CoD Shock.


----------



## Furious George (Apr 14, 2013)

Its like Ken Levine said in an interview that I don't feel like finding... "Its like every single level of this game causes controversy. (paraphrases)". 

Between the box art (the freaking box art), the violence, the "anti-American" claims, the racism claims, gamplay complaints, this game has gotten no rest. 

*
"We can kill the industry with cynicism"*, Ken Levine.


----------



## lathia (Apr 14, 2013)

You misunderstand me. I'd love to see more Bioshock. Much like Assasin's Creed, I love the stories and that's what keeps me content.


----------



## Krory (Apr 14, 2013)

I don't think Jorge was replying to you, more to the overall conversation that was being had before about the anti-BioShock Infinite movement.


----------



## manwiththemachinegun (Apr 14, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I actually heard in a Eurogamer article, that US weapons manufacturers don't let game publishers license their guns if intent to create a game that "portrays either America or its armed forces in any negative light".
> 
> The conservative pro gun lobby has many connections to our hobby my friends




Are you kidding me? That's *bullshit*. Army of Two, Bad Company, CoD2 and Spec Ops: The Line all heavily criticize the U.S. military. 

It's like how people complain middle eastern terrorists in movies are "racist". Hey, have you seen a SINGLE action movie like True Lies since 9/11 where the good guys just kill Arab terrorists from a NAMED middle eastern country? I haven't. Even a show like 24 where Arab terrorists show up constantly there's always some evil American or European bad guy behind them, since they're obviously too dumb to it themselves, which in itself is also a kind of racism.


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 14, 2013)

Jena said:


> I disagree with the Wounded Knee thing. That had such a huge emotional impact on Booker. It's also kind of the point – when you're at the museum (or whatever) and there are all the displays about Wounded Knee, it's trivializing and warping an event that Booker reveals (through dialogue at that scene and later in the game) was so horrifying that it haunts Booker. Like seriously, that _is_ the point – if Booker trivialized the massacre, he wouldn't have felt the need to be baptized in the first place. And if he becomes Comstock, he applies his racist twist on reality to justify to himself what he did at Wounded Knee. If he doesn't become Comstock, he defines himself as a broken, morally ugly, irredeemable killer because of what he did at Wounded Knee.



I had similar thoughts about it. Golding's complaint seems to be that Comstock's obvious propaganda and trivialising attitude is too simplistic and the game doesn't make a significant 'statement' about Wounded Knee -- that it just uses the event to make Comstock look more evil. I'm not sure about that, as the event is critical for Booker (as you pointed out) and his emotional development in the narrative. That being said, I do wonder why the creators of the game chose to use a real event like that for the story -- I mainly find it curious as I think they could have simply created a fictional event which had similar circumstances, and I don't think it would have changed the impact of the story as a whole. (Unless one of the aims of the game was to make a point about the real Wounded Knee Massacre, and I didn't get that impression.) 

I think Golding is ultimately focused on things that aren't the point of the game, though. When I finished the game, I felt like it was about Booker and Elizabeth at heart. I didn't feel like it was a study or commentary on racism and historical events. Maybe that's why he didn't care for it -- he saw those big issues and, for him, it completely overshadowed anything else in the game, and he was subsequently disappointed when he realised that the game wasn't going to address them in great depth or complexity.

On another note, I just noticed that .


----------



## manwiththemachinegun (Apr 14, 2013)

I think it's a bullshit criticism when all sorts of films and books use historical events and no one particularly cares.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 14, 2013)

manwiththemachinegun said:


> Are you kidding me? That's *bullshit*. Army of Two, Bad Company, CoD2 and Spec Ops: The Line all heavily criticize the U.S. military.
> 
> It's like how people complain middle eastern terrorists in movies are "racist". Hey, have you seen a SINGLE action movie like True Lies since 9/11 where the good guys just kill Arab terrorists from a NAMED middle eastern country? I haven't. Even a show like 24 where Arab terrorists show up constantly there's always some evil American or European bad guy behind them, since they're obviously too dumb to it themselves, which in itself is also a kind of racism.





Not sure how far it extends but that's their view.



Dream Brother said:


> I had similar thoughts about it. Golding's complaint seems to be that Comstock's obvious propaganda and trivialising attitude is too simplistic and the game doesn't make a significant 'statement' about Wounded Knee -- that it just uses the event to make Comstock look more evil. I'm not sure about that, as the event is critical for Booker (as you pointed out) and his emotional development in the narrative. That being said, I do wonder why the creators of the game chose to use a real event like that for the story -- I mainly find it curious as I think they could have simply created a fictional event which had similar circumstances, and I don't think it would have changed the impact of the story as a whole. (Unless one of the aims of the game was to make a point about the real Wounded Knee Massacre, and I didn't get that impression.)
> 
> I think Golding is ultimately focused on things that aren't the point of the game, though. When I finished the game, I felt like it was about Booker and Elizabeth at heart. I didn't feel like it was a study or commentary on racism and historical events. Maybe that's why he didn't care for it -- he saw those big issues and, for him, it completely overshadowed anything else in the game, and he was subsequently disappointed when he realised that the game wasn't going to address them in great depth or complexity.
> 
> On another note, I just noticed that .



Thanks for the link.

Ken has always said that they weren't out to solve any existential problem that existed as social commentary. It was merely there to flesh out the world. He's even said that it would be impossible because the themes presented aren't even solved in today's society, so how could they say anything more than Bioshock 1's individualist perspective?


----------



## manwiththemachinegun (Apr 14, 2013)

And that article is a bunch of big long nothing. They might be paying to "advertise" their guns in a few games, but there are dozens that show the U.S. in a less than perfect light that absolutely name licensed guns. I listed four off the top of my head.

It's a very silly complaint especially since real gun violence is a much bigger issue.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 14, 2013)

manwiththemachinegun said:


> And that article is a bunch of big long nothing. They might be paying to "advertise" their guns in a few games, but there are dozens that show the U.S. in a less than perfect light that absolutely name licensed guns. I listed four off the top of my head.
> 
> It's a very silly complaint especially since real gun violence is a much bigger issue.



Not to agree or disagree with your point, but having played all those games those titles you mentioned outside of MAYBE spec ops aren't anything like criticizing the US as a country or its military (and i don't even know where you got COD2 from, do you mean MW2? Shepard is one guy who's  evil military firm had to be changed to "shadow company" so as to not be confused with US troops)


----------



## Krory (Apr 15, 2013)

> Robert and Rosalind extensively make reference or parody scenes, dialog and themes from Tom Stoppard's Rosencratz and Guildernstern are Dead, a play which deals with the themes of inescapable determinism, the passage of time and the nature of existence. The early coin-flipping scene featuring the 'twins' is a homage to the opening of Stoppard's play, where the character Roasencratz has flipped a coin to show heads such a great number of times that he and his companion begin to debate the nature of fate and probability. It is also a recurring theme throughout the game that no character can truly say with certainty if Robert and Rosalind are dead, a theme also explored in the play.



Intriguing.


----------



## Krory (Apr 15, 2013)

Also, just read an analysis that brought up something interesting...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Booker, in the game we play, has to ring 1-2-2 at the lighthouse. There are 122 marks on the board Robert wears (12 on one side, 110 on the other - though they incorrectly say it's 22 and 100), with this Booker being the 123rd.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Apr 15, 2013)

Krory said:


> Also, just read an analysis that brought up something interesting...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Mind blown


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 15, 2013)

Didn't blow shit with me...


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## Death-kun (Apr 15, 2013)

Krory said:


> Intriguing.



I love when references like this are made. It actually makes me want to see the play, or at least read the script.


----------



## Alicia (Apr 15, 2013)

*Bioshock Infinite 9-Inch Action Figure:
Motorized Patriot George Washington (Provisional Preorder)*


​


----------



## Olivia (Apr 15, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> I love when references like this are made. It actually makes me want to see the play, or at least read the script.



If you haven't, you should at least read/watch the play of Hamlet beforehand. Rosencratz and Guildernstern are Dead effectively follows the story of Hamlet from their point of view.

To add onto that, I feel the Lutece's are also a reference to Rosencratz and Guildernstern from not only 'Rosencratz and Guildernstern are Dead', but also from the original play, 'Hamlet'. They are side/background characters that appear randomly when needed. They help the main enemy, but also help the main character. They all help push the plot forward from the background, which R and G only truly do in the actual play of Hamlet, versus where they get all the attention in 'R and G are Dead'.

But maybe I'm looking too far into things.


----------



## Krory (Apr 16, 2013)

When my siblings and I went to the tattoo parlor yesterday, we were talking about the game (since he noticed what I wanted from the game). He told us about how he got the game on opening day at round 10am and since the shop doesn't open until noon and he usually doesn't come in until 1 or 1:30 anyways, he would play a few hours. He sat down and just played and reached a point where he was like, "Okay, this is cool, but I think I've played enough for today."

Was 7pm when he stopped.


----------



## Krory (Apr 16, 2013)

on BioShock Infinite, which is a pretty good read though I disagree with some things at the end there.


----------



## "Shion" (Apr 16, 2013)

Yahtzee...

The board game.


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 16, 2013)

.

I didn't know about the similarities to _Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead_. That's interesting. (I just checked, and Levine has mentioned the play before in an interview, and he spoke highly of Tom Stoppard.) I don't think I've ever read or seen the play, only heard about it.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 16, 2013)

Krory said:


> on BioShock Infinite, which is a pretty good read though I disagree with some things at the end there.



It's really unfortunate the only way Levine and Irrational could get a story with any sort of forethought, wit or intelligence into a AAA game is to slap it on a shooter--and not an exceptional one, at that.

Sometimes you just kind of have to suspend your disbelief when it comes to alternate whosawhats--logically they will never make 100 sense, and when you scrutinize it too much, you're doing yourself a disservice.  I do think he has a point about the world of Columbia, though: all of those miracles of science seem to exist solely for Booker to use to slay the entire population of Columbia.  At least in rapture, things like Telekinesis and Pyromania are loosely explained with practical applications that have gone horridly awry when the gates of hell opened.

It _is_ kind of a blow to the immersion to have something like the possession skill being fucking demonstrated to a crowd of people who seem to have no problem with casual mind control--who then proceed to not once, the entire time shit is going down, use it to their own advantage.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 17, 2013)

So apparently I'm an idiot.

Thought I had bought Bioshock: Infinite during my drunk purchasing extravaganza. Turns out, I only got to the "Are you sure you want to purchase page" before I went back to my Mass Effect marathon.

On the bright side, a local rental store had this game. The equivalent of about two us dollars. 

I'm going to be playing this game like a madman, lest I pay two more.


----------



## Krory (Apr 17, 2013)

When in doubt, the Luteces did it.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 17, 2013)

Throwing fireballs at everyone after trying to throw that ball at the announcer. 

Booker is like a food eating tornado. There's not going to be anything left for these Colombians.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Apr 18, 2013)

Just rented this. Believe it or not I do not like it. Am rushing through it. Yes, hate me, hate me, but I find this game excruciatingly boring. Just run and gun, run and gun. Should've figured with this CoD generation, goddamnit wasted my 7 bucks.


----------



## Krory (Apr 18, 2013)

>Run and gun

There's your problem right there.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 18, 2013)

You best be trollin  7 bucks? Not even taking the time to go through the environments, the entire point of Bioshock?

Yeah viewpoint invalidated


----------



## Bungee Gum (Apr 18, 2013)

Uh what? So far the story is uninteresting and all the side crap is not something I want to explore. Yes, run and gun. What else can I do? I don't see a stealth option or a tactical option anywhere. I never really played Bioshock but so far, not diggin it


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 18, 2013)

Sorry, its just that your claims are so far away from my experience with the game i'm having trouble taking it seriously. If you've never played any Bioshock games however, i can understand being blindsided from what you weren't expecting


----------



## Bungee Gum (Apr 18, 2013)

i basically have infinite ammo, health and shield. no reason to look around when im at max of everything. Money? to buy what? upgrades to stuff i dont need upgrades for? no thanks, it costs too much anyways. ill beat this game in the next day at this rate, shouldnve rented for 1 or 2 days


----------



## Burke (Apr 18, 2013)

set             .


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 18, 2013)

Goova said:


> Just rented this. Believe it or not I do not like it. Am rushing through it. Yes, hate me, hate me, but I find this game excruciatingly boring. Just run and gun, run and gun. Should've figured with this CoD generation, goddamnit wasted my 7 bucks.



Didn't you have Borderlands 2 and Halo 4 as your gotys last year? Pretty hilarious.

And run and gun has nothing to do with CoD generation. And Bioshock's combat is nothing like CoD anyway.


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## Burke (Apr 18, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> Didn't you have Borderlands 2 and Halo 4 as your gotys last year? Pretty hilarious.



cant make that shit up


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## Bungee Gum (Apr 18, 2013)

well ya know, game is way more about story. and i dont care about it. the gameplay is lacking. basically infinite supplies, fights are easy, just spam everything and you'll be resupplied. 2 guns at a time, nothing to break up just the run and gunning.  game was made in mind for people who enjoy the story or are interested in it, and the story drives it and controls the whole game. No choices, the upgrades are mostly unimportant and not useful. if this game had almost no story, and instead better gameplay, i would give it a much better score.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Apr 18, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> Didn't you have Borderlands 2 and Halo 4 as your gotys last year? Pretty hilarious.
> 
> And run and gun has nothing to do with CoD generation. And Bioshock's combat is nothing like CoD anyway.



never played halo 4. 

Yes I had Borderlands 2 as GOTY, because it was the only game I played, so it wins by default. See, my ps3 broke, wouldn't play discs, so I couldn't play most any game from the 2nd half of 2012. Just got a new ps3 so playing through the games I missed. It was pretty much between Mass Effect 3 and Borderlands 2, and BL2 was more fresh in my head, although I would give it to Mass Effect 3 if I were to choose now. And plus, Borderlands have a lot deeper RPG aspects to it, and customization, and RPG and customization is pretty much my favorite thing to do in a game. Bioshock has little to no customization, is driven by story, and its game is really easy and im just playing to get to the next point in the story, instead of playing for X upgrade or X equipment, which is really unsatisfying.


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 18, 2013)

Goova said:


> game was made in mind for people who enjoy the story or are interested in it, and the story drives it and controls the whole game.



True. (Which is why I liked it.) If you're not interested in the story, then I can see why you dislike the game, because playing for the combat alone must be pretty dull.


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## Zaru (Apr 18, 2013)

Yeah as far as pure gameplay goes there are much better games out there.


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## Bungee Gum (Apr 18, 2013)

Yeah, sadly game was not made for me. Not too big of deal, plenty of games out there. Just happens I really dislike any Pre-1980's, Post- 1700's time period. Like, for example, the radio's, the fashion, the music, the sounds, the culture, I really dislike heavily all early 1900's stuff, especially. Seeing as this game is based all around that, and it's always in my face, I was actually getting angry at the game for shoving all this 1900's crap down my throat, which I happen to despise, pretty much. I just mostly cannot enjoy that time period, but there are a few exceptions, just not this, or fallout, or other stuff.


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## Death-kun (Apr 18, 2013)

I'll go out on a limb and say that Bioshock 2 was very fun to play.

It just needed to be a lot better in every other department. Including difficulty.


----------



## Zaru (Apr 18, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> I'll go out on a limb and say that Bioshock 2 was very fun to play.
> 
> It just needed to be a lot better in every other department. Including difficulty.



If only Bioshock 1 had dual wielding of plasmids and weapons...


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 18, 2013)

I also liked the sheer variety of weapons that Bioshock 2 had. From the drill to the harpoon gun to the grenade launcher, and so on. 

I think that dual wielding was what made it so fun, but it also made it very easy. Freeze + drill = insta-kill on everything, even Big Daddies.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 18, 2013)

Got a bit further into this game. Just got Elizabeth and went to this theme park place. Wanted to see if I could shoot civilians out of impulse. Turns out, you actually can. I really hope Elizabeth doesn't scold me for this. I had to do it...For science.

I agree about the gameplay, it sucks. Maybe if there were more emphasis on the vigors, I'd enjoy it more. But at the moment, I can throw like 2 fireballs before Booker gets tired. Then the game turns into a boring shooter.

On the bright side, the story and environment are interesting enough to keep me going. Elizabeth trying to lift that weight ball on the beach made me laugh more than it should have.


----------



## Zaru (Apr 18, 2013)

I'm also not a fan of the resource management in this game.
I didn't like it in Bioshock 1+2 and I still don't like it here.

Breaking the action and story flow by routinely searching the shit out of every container and corpse just doesn't feel right, does it?

I've always preferred regenerative ability resources (health can go either way) over managed ones. It allows for a more tactical approach because you don't have to wonder how many Salt bottles you'll find in this particular level. It leads to needless conservation and thus less usage of the abilities... which means less fun.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 18, 2013)

Zaru said:


> I'm also not a fan of the resource management in this game.
> I didn't like it in Bioshock 1+2 and I still don't like it here.
> 
> Breaking the action and story flow by routinely searching the shit out of every container and corpse just doesn't feel right, does it?
> ...



This too. Like after that bit where I pulled a gun on the ticket manager, and Elizabeth runs ahead by herself. Instead of running after her, I ran straight in the room in the opposite direction to loot. Even listened to a voxophone in there. Kinda kills any urgency that scene has.

I'd trade this regenerating shield for regenerating salts any day. That way, I can actually make use of the skills the devs made, rather than relying on just shooting everything.


----------



## Zaru (Apr 18, 2013)

I wish the game was more moddable. There's probably some salt modifier in an unaccessible config file for development purposes, and you could completely change the game by changing one line


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 18, 2013)

Every sink in Colombia will flow.

This is Booker's true mission.


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## Zaru (Apr 18, 2013)

Although.

There are trainers out there (@console gamers: A trainer is a program you start in the background that changes the values of a game in the memory. It can give you unlimited health, ammo etc. and is meant for people who want to mess around in a game), which means it would be piss easy to add a timer for regenerating salt. It'd have to be balanced out, but I am 100% sure this is possible.


----------



## Alien (Apr 18, 2013)

Every time i think about this game i like it less and less.


----------



## Krory (Apr 18, 2013)

Isn't that how you feel about everything, Alien?


----------



## Alien (Apr 18, 2013)

Nope               .


----------



## Krory (Apr 18, 2013)

If you say so.


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## Bungee Gum (Apr 18, 2013)

Some games get finer with time, like wine. Well, I've never had wine, so I'm just going off what everyone says. Still, games like call of duty, ff7, amy, etc, all get better with age


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 18, 2013)

Just finished Infinite and I have to say that I'm pretty stunned. I loved every minute of the game and even when it was being frustrating I felt compelled to keep going. 

The Handy Men can go fuck themselves though.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 18, 2013)

Goova said:


> Some games get finer with time, like wine. Well, I've never had wine, so I'm just going off what everyone says. Still, games like call of duty, ff7, amy, etc, all get better with age



What are you talking about, FF7 has aged terribly.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 18, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> What are you talking about, FF7 has aged terribly.


The story hasn't, but I would say Call of Duty has. The FPS genre has aged badly, really.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 18, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The Handy Men can go fuck themselves though.



Seriously.

"Shooting them in the heart results in higher damage."

Like hell it does, I unload all my rpg ammo on these fuckers and it's still not enough. If Irrational's goal with those guys was to make me cry while running for dear life, then mission succeeded.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 18, 2013)

I was fighting the Handymen wrong the entire game. I thought Shock Jockey would do something to them because they're metal, but apparently it doesn't work like that according to the strategy guide. I guess they're weak to Murder of Crows.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 18, 2013)

C-crows?

_Crows?!_

I could have been killing these things with birds this entire time?!


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 18, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD0LRlqtkMo[/YOUTUBE]

You're not joking. This will make the rest of the game so much easier.

Speaking of which, I'm in Lutece's laboratory right now. It's the bit after we went to fight the banshee queen.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 18, 2013)

Yeah, the strategy guide said you're supposed to distract them with crows. 

I haven't tried it myself yet.


----------



## Neji (Apr 18, 2013)

Fucking school, haven't been able to finish my 1999 playthrough.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Apr 19, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> What are you talking about, FF7 has aged terribly.



.....

Yes, it did. Same with CoD, and that shitty game called Amy. Derrrrr


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 19, 2013)

Goova said:


> .....
> 
> Yes, it did. Same with CoD, and that shitty game called Amy. Derrrrr


Amy came out a year ago and it was a shitty game from day one.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 19, 2013)

Heads or tails


----------



## Krory (Apr 19, 2013)

The FFVII story hasn't aged poorly because it wasn't that good to begin with.


----------



## Krory (Apr 19, 2013)

And of course Shock Jockey wouldn't work on Handymen, they us electricity themselves.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 19, 2013)

I kind of want to play this game again already. I want to try out the crow thing and just go back and goof off and the like.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 19, 2013)

Krory said:


> The FFVII story hasn't aged poorly because it wasn't that good to begin with.



I disagree. But then again, i liked every FF story up to X-2(and the subsequent FFXIII and its ilk)


----------



## Overwatch (Apr 19, 2013)

Thoughts?


----------



## Krory (Apr 19, 2013)

I don't think I could facepalm hard enough without doing significant brain-damage.


----------



## Overwatch (Apr 19, 2013)

You know, I'm half-expecting Valve to hand out HL3 for free as compensation for the long wait.


----------



## Mikaveli (Apr 19, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I never pick the cage. Liz is trying to get away from that, the bird is representative of what she wants to be.



That's the trick, they're both cages. Whether it be Songbird or The Tower. The illusion of choice


----------



## Krory (Apr 19, 2013)

Super Goob just blew my fucking mind.


----------



## Mikaveli (Apr 19, 2013)

I still have yet to buy and play this. I've just watched a few play-through and read spoilers here. 

The life of a jobless college student. I get all my video game fixes through wikis and discussion forums. I'll get a job one day, just to buy this.

But from what I've seen, the gameplay is the weakest part of the game. The story is really engaging and interesting and sometimes it feels like actually playing (or in my case watching) the game gets in the way of what you really want, which is more story.


*Spoiler*: __ 



I was confused for a while about the end with the whole Booker/Comstock thing. I originally thought that Booker, no matter the universe, ultimately became Comstock. For some reason I thought the Baptism was after he sold Anna and he went to steal her after becoming crazed. Now I understand he either becomes Comstock or the guilt ridden, in debt Booker. Now my question is do all of the Bookers eventually go to Colombia to retrieve Elizabeth, or is that only what happens to this Booker? Because the whole million million towers seems to suggest the former, but I just wanted to be sure.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 19, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



it happens to many bookers infinitely. 

There are two distinct paths we are shown, the one where he becomes comstock and the one where he stays booker, sells anna and goes to columbia later to retrieve her. 

Its like two universes are connected and are always repeating, the letuces have seen it happen over 100 times because of their mishap in the dimension machine.

And in 99% of those worlds, Booker is killed by Songbird on the bridge after Elizabeth is kidnapped by Songbird hence why old elizabeth is so important. She gives elizabeth the key to break that cycle and unlock her true power by destroying the siphon. At that second a million other universes sprouted off from that point with other elizabeths unlocking their power too, hence there being multiple liz's at the end arriving at the same destination, killing booker and eliminating the baptism from his life and rewriting it so comstock, columbia, the letuces, elizabeth as booker knows her and everything else never happened. 

All that's left is Booker, his daughter and his apartment. Although i think because of that dimension hopping shit he may have ended up keeping the memories of the player booker


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 19, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I disagree. But then again, i liked every FF story up to X-2(and the subsequent FFXIII and its ilk)



I also like FFVII. I replayed it a year or two ago, and I don't think it has aged badly either. It's still a great game. (A certain plot point in FFVIII, on the other hand, made me facepalm, and I haven't liked any of the FF games released after 2001.)


----------



## Krory (Apr 19, 2013)

I never said there's anything wrong with FFVII... the story just isn't that great, imo. In most FF games in general.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 19, 2013)

Oh my god.

These crows are overpowered against firemen too. Just downed one in like 10 seconds.

Edit: I was trying to take control of a Patriot, when all of the sudden a guy jumped in front of it and took the possession. Is this a mechanic, or a hell of a coincidence?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 19, 2013)

Super Goob said:


> That's the trick, they're both cages. Whether it be Songbird or The Tower. The illusion of choice


You just broke my mind.

Could Elizabeth have aged faster too?


----------



## Krory (Apr 19, 2013)

I think that's a coincidence, Patch.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 19, 2013)

I just realized that the fight near the end could've been a lot easier if I had possessed some of the Patriots.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 19, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> I just realized that the fight near the end could've been a lot easier if I had possessed some of the Patriots.



Not really, they stay possessed almost no time.


----------



## Krory (Apr 19, 2013)

They stay possessed more than long enough for you to go and kill another Patriot or some of the Founders.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 19, 2013)

I just sprayed water on them and volley gun them in the gears.


----------



## Zaru (Apr 19, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Not really, they stay possessed almost no time.



Which isn't a problem if you can spam possession.

Patriots were my least concern in this game. Handymen, however...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 19, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Which isn't a problem if you can spam possession.
> 
> Patriots were my least concern in this game. Handymen, however...


The water is more spammable.


----------



## Death-kun (Apr 19, 2013)

I found out too late that the Handymen were weak to _crows_, of all things. Made me sad since Murder of Crows was the vigor I used the most.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 19, 2013)

Just beat Bioshock Infinite



Edit: After a few hours of thinking back on the whole experience, decided to make a quick list of likes/dislikes.


*Spoiler*: __ 



What I liked


Elizabeth is the most useful companion ever. She never once trapped me inside a room by chilling out in the doorway. She's constantly throwing me stuff that I can use, which is especially helpful in combat. 
Elizabeth adds to the immersion of the game. When walking by fire, she'll start coughing. When she sees something she likes, she'll go interact with it. It just makes everything feel more natural when she's not always hanging out within a fixed radius from you, silently staring blankly ahead.
The story was great, even if I'm still wrapping my head around it all. It was well paced, and not drawn-out. The ending really surprised me, and wasn't overly complicated. There were multiple clues you could find throughout the game that made everything come together at the end.
The environment was wonderful and unique.
Voice acting was great.
Combat environments were all different.

No. Please god no.


The combat. Fuck Vigors. I gave them a chance, I really did. At every chance, I used the upgrade potions to raise my mana. After maxing it out, I was finally able to enjoy combat. Problem is, that end-game combat where I could throw possessions, fireballs, and birds all over like a madman...that's how the entire game should have been in the first place. Combat should have been designed around those skills, because they're so much more fun than shooting.
The item collection breaks the otherwise great pacing of the game. I encountered this early on when Elizabeth was possibly in danger. Instead of running after her, I went on a loot-fest. I'm not saying there shouldn't have been any looting, just none at important points in the story like that.
Enemy respawn. Pretty small annoyance, but it discouraged me from doing side-quests. That and it feels out of place in a game where there's no leveling system. 
THAT GUY WITH THE PHONOPHONES FOR A HEAD SNEAKING UP ON ME. *FUCK THAT GUY.* I HAD TO PAUSE AND TAKE A BREATHER AFTER THAT.




Overall, I really liked this game. I just wish the combat was better.


----------



## Burke (Apr 21, 2013)

those enemies arent respawned, they are just there for that one time in the event that players go back to complete a side mission. Or in the case of Finks factory area, its just new soldiers moving in on your location.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 21, 2013)

What you described is equivalent to enemy respawn. Storywise, it may be different. But as a gameplay mechanic, it serves the exact same purpose. In a game where there's nothing to be gained from killing mobs, they're only there to slow the player down.

But my point isn't whether they have respawns or if they place new soldiers one time in a place you've been. It's that it discouraged me from doing any sidequests. If I clear out a place, I don't want to have to fight through a second small army just to get a couple hundred coins. 

I'm sure some people may like fighting through more waves of enemies, but I don't. Just sharing my experience with the game.


----------



## Krory (Apr 21, 2013)

Though that is the only time they respawn. If you go back through that area then they don't just reappear. It is a completely new wave of enemies, respawn is more reference to the same enemies returning and it being a repetitive process, not a one-shot deal.

And I like it 'cause it's fucking fun throwing them into the air and pushing them off of edges with a blast of water or shit like that.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 21, 2013)

I'd rather not debate semantics. 

 It serves the same purpose of lengthening the hours of gameplay. If there were a leveling system, then a new wave of enemies would make some sense. Without that sort of system in place, they're just there to waste your time.

Keep in mind, I rented this game. My goal was to play through as fast as possible. Maybe if I owned the game, I'd see the new enemies in a different light.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 21, 2013)

Patchouli: in terms of the jump scare, they actually had a similar one in the first Bioshock. Although in the first game in that scene you feel like something could pop out at you at any second, in Infinite it came right the fuck out of nowhere.


----------



## Krory (Apr 21, 2013)

If you bothered to sneak through the Boys of Silence like you were clearly supposed to (and was pretty easy to do) it does build a sort of sense of eeriness that is coupled with Elizabeth screaming in pain in the beginning, the tears, and all of the voxophones about some apocalyptic shit.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 21, 2013)

Doom85 said:


> Patchouli: in terms of the jump scare, they actually had a similar one in the first Bioshock. Although in the first game in that scene you feel like something could pop out at you at any second, in Infinite it came right the fuck out of nowhere.



That's the sort of thing that kept me from ever playing the first Bioshock. I heard there were scary bits in it, so I stayed away. I don't handle horror well.

From what my friends said, this game wasn't supposed to be scary. Liars, the whole lot of them.



Krory said:


> If you bothered to sneak through the Boys of Silence like you were clearly supposed to (and was pretty easy to do) it does build a sort of sense of eeriness that is coupled with Elizabeth screaming in pain in the beginning, the tears, and all of the voxophones about some apocalyptic shit.



...It's pretty hard when you're freaking out.


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 21, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> That's the sort of thing that kept me from ever playing the first Bioshock. I heard there were scary bits in it, so I stayed away. I don't handle horror well.
> 
> From what my friends said, this game wasn't supposed to be scary. Liars, the whole lot of them.



While I wouldn't call Bioshock a horror game, there are definitely some disturbing and creepy moments. In fact, it's quite sad when something that isn't a horror game is more effective at being scary than games that actually claim to be horror (I think Silent Hill Downpour scared me once....maybe twice? Man, can we get the original Team Silent Hill back? ).


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 22, 2013)

The Boys of Silence thing only got me once and that was because I basically had no idea what I was walking into.


----------



## Magic (Apr 22, 2013)

^ The last encounter I shot him on purpose 

LOL


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 22, 2013)

RemChu said:


> ^ The last encounter I shot him on purpose
> 
> LOL


I melee hit him because that was my go to thing when anyone got close to me. I even did it to Handy Men on mistake. 

Man I want to replay this now.


----------



## Krory (Apr 22, 2013)

Doom85 said:


> (I think Silent Hill Downpour scared me once....maybe twice? Man, can we get the original Team Silent Hill back? ).



No.

They're still being punished for _Silent Hill 4: The Room_.

And Akira Yamaoka is working for Grasshopper now, I believe, so the music would still suck.

And the best thing about _BioShock Infinite_ is playing through again and picking up on shit - like the number you enter at the lighthouse in the beginning corresponding to the number of tally-marks on the Lutece's chalkboard which both correspond to Booker in a way.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 22, 2013)

I need to finish Tomb Raider first since I started that.


----------



## Magic (Apr 22, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I melee hit him because that was my go to thing when anyone got close to me. I even did it to Handy Men on mistake.
> 
> Man I want to replay this now.



Yeah I have the same retarded instinct to melee in a shooter game....makes me feel hardcore or something.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 22, 2013)

Dude it's a fucking saw blade to the face, why wouldn't you melee...I would bucking bronco people and jump and melee them.


----------



## Burke (Apr 22, 2013)

I thought downpour was fine-ish.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 22, 2013)

Downpour is the only Silent Hill game I've ever played.

I couldn't stop laughing at how bad the monsters were. Story was...alright? It's been a while. 

But if it didn't manage to scare me, the biggest pussy in the world, then it's objectively not scary.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 22, 2013)

silent hill 1 and 2 were excellent  3 was pretty decent. the rest have been garbage


----------



## Krory (Apr 22, 2013)

Silent Hill 3 > Silent Hill 1

Just saying.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 22, 2013)

I need to get around to playing those one day.

Gotta face my fears.


----------



## Krory (Apr 22, 2013)

There's not much scary, especially in the first two. SH2 is definitely more creepy and psychological than anything.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 22, 2013)

You also thought sneaking past the horn guys wasn't scary. 

That took me like 10 minutes of running back and forth deciding whether to go for it or not. I was certain they'd turn to look at me.


----------



## Krory (Apr 22, 2013)

But it wasn't. I could see how it was creepy or eerie, but definitely not scary.

It was all systematic.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 22, 2013)

The atmosphere was creepy and eerie. Not being certain that first time whether the guy would rapidly turn to look at me was scary. After getting caught, I just shot those guys whenever I saw them.


----------



## Klue (Apr 22, 2013)

Hadn't even realized Bioshock Infinite was released. 

I live under a rock.


----------



## Krory (Apr 22, 2013)

Yeah, it's been what, like a month now?


----------



## Axl Low (Apr 23, 2013)

Beat the game.
Had my mind blown.
Then cried.

I loved all the vigors 
Bucking Bronco + Undertow = get off my map D
Crows + Shock Jockey = Yep just stay stunned while I pop your skull 

Undertow is amazing. Works well on firemen and patriots.
Gotta love the crows though. They mess up handymen so easy :33

Charge makes sirens you bitch on Hard Mode.


----------



## dragonbattousai (Apr 23, 2013)

Playing the game a second time let me understand the concept a bit better, and take in a lot of the music a bit more.  Plus the final part of the game on '99 is just plain epic.


----------



## Zaru (Apr 25, 2013)




----------



## Tash (Apr 25, 2013)

Doom85 said:


> Patchouli: in terms of the jump scare, they actually had a similar one in the first Bioshock. Although in the first game in that scene you feel like something could pop out at you at any second, in Infinite it came right the fuck out of nowhere.



Bioshock 2 had one too when you pick up some collectable (I honestly forget what it was) then turn around to see a Spider Splicer staring at you.

It's a running trend in the series. Almost like FF having characters named Cid.


----------



## God (Apr 25, 2013)

I loved using songbird to rape the vox
Crowning m.o.a.

Favorite combo was bucking bronco + charge
Least favorite vigor... Eh probably either crows or rts


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 25, 2013)

Second play through, crows are super OP.


----------



## Grape (Apr 25, 2013)

Crows are dope. They mix with fire :S


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 25, 2013)

The gear you get that lets you shock people with powerful gunshots plus the crows is my new best friend. There's nothing like sniping someone at close range and then crowing the room down while he and his buddies get shocked.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 25, 2013)

Booker has a problem.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 25, 2013)

I like how you eat food that's clearly rotten.


----------



## Tash (Apr 25, 2013)

I used crow for all the standard enemies + Handymen.

Then Shock Jock for iron patriots.

And Bronco on Crows (the enemy type).

Aside from those most of the other vigors I rarely touched in combat. I feel like I missed the boat on return to Sender since you get it so late in the game after you've already figured out your strategy to kill everything, I didn't bother with it. I still don't really get what situation charge is supposed to be useful for. Even with the invincibility upgrade... meh.

EDIT: I'm really really satisfied with how the crow plasmid was implemented, because it's like they saw that nobody was really fucking with Hive in Bioshock 1 and introduced a jacked up version of it.


----------



## God (Apr 25, 2013)

Actually i did find the crow trap rather useful but didnt like that vigor overall
For the iron patriots i would use possession even though its hard on the salts. I got more out of it than shock jockey.

Undertow was a good one too


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 26, 2013)

Undertow allowed me to melee them in the back for heavy damage.


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 27, 2013)

.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 27, 2013)

Dream Brother said:


> .


The guy sounds like a cunt that's full of himself. He literally talks about the Box Art for several pages.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 28, 2013)

Dream Brother said:


> .



Holy shit it's not even a review;  it's a pedantic diatribe from someone who hates everyone and everything, especially video games.  He hates games, gamers, people that just like games, people that make games, just everyone and everything and the only person with the vision and insight to guide the unwashed masses away from their vegetative stupor.

If you ever want to see a single, inclusive article that represents everything wrong with 'gaming culture' and the fedora clad troglodytes who studied art in community college and are now seasoned, intellectual critics that latch their vile proboscis onto the medium, here it is.

I really enjoy video games, and I'm not really happy with state of gaming right now; I think we're making strides into being a more 'artistically accepted' medium (and whether that's a good thing or not is up to debate), but what disenfranchises me the most about gaming in general are mouthbreathers like this.


----------



## Jena (Apr 28, 2013)

Dream Brother said:


> .



>Way too long
>Unorganized, jumps from point to point
>Painstakingly and ultimately mistakingly reading into things (_e.g.,_ analysis of the name "Dewitt")
>Starts off with a focus on some random thing that doesn't really have anything to do with the game; spends forever analyzing it
>Filled with 10 dollar words
>Constantly mentions his work/name drops
>Interrupts review with random conversations he had 

Oh Tim, buddy, you never change do you?


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 28, 2013)

Yep, I've read some of his other articles, and I don't really care for his pompous tone and tendency to go on and on about small or unimportant things.

. Just...ugh. I couldn't even read it all.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 28, 2013)

My eyes were watering--but I couldn't tell if it was that horrible myspace color scheme or the written diarrhea.  Oh well, at least they're cordoned off in their obscure internet hovels.


----------



## Jena (Apr 28, 2013)

Dream Brother said:


> Yep, I've read some of his other articles, and I don't really care for his pompous tone and tendency to go on and on about small or unimportant things.
> 
> . Just...ugh. I couldn't even read it all.



Opens with a Nietzsche quote and then launches into a rant basically about that stupid "fake nerd girls" bs.

I didn't know it was possible to hate someone so quickly!


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2013)

I skimmed the one you read before and it seemed like he had basically decided that he wanted the game to be something super open world and had decided that it was bad for a game to tell a story. I clicked back through his reviews and he gave a five star review to some iphone thing that wasn't probably more than some little mini game thing. 

The guy does represent that high and mighty sect of gamers that really makes me not want to deal with the rest of the culture at all. And the box art analysis was ridiculous.


----------



## Aruarian (Apr 29, 2013)

Those two reviews are legit tl;dr.


----------



## lathia (Apr 29, 2013)

Just started 1999 mode. Holy smokes at times.


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 29, 2013)

> As the primary animation resource for the Bioshock Infinite DLC, I learned the custom pipeline used by Irrational Games and provided all animation planning and management for the project.
> 
> Bioshock Infinite DLC1
> • Cataloging of existing Bioshock animation assets and custom UDK implementation
> ...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2013)

Nope, has to be Elizabeth.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 29, 2013)

How about a second Elizabeth?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> How about a second Elizabeth?


There can only be one!


----------



## Burke (Apr 29, 2013)

These dlc are so going to be worth that season pass


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2013)

I was pretty pissed when I got the season pass because I thought there were DLCs out and I got them with it, I bought all this shit my first day having a PS3.


----------



## Patchouli (Apr 29, 2013)

Have you guys seen these?

I'd have liked to run into one of these guys.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2013)

It's from the Art Book, I'm planning to buy it.


----------



## Axl Low (Apr 29, 2013)

beat the game a second time on 99 mode and got all acheevos for it
the ending battle was easier than when i did it the first time
I died 2 times total in my 99 run.
The 3rd siren fight and the 3rd? handyman

weapons of choice:
Sniper 
Volley Gun 
Shotgun

vigor and upgrades:
Possession on humans and for less- invaluable 
Most important upgrade for 99 mode

Charge: Shield boost = Instant sheild refill is amazing 

Crows: just trap upgrade

Undertow: Both upgrades. Shits on firemen, patriots and turrets and everything near an edge

R2S: return for less - traps in front of the ship's core made the battle much easier

no upgrades for shock jockey, devil's kiss or bronco

wintershield = best gear ever
sheltered life was pretty awesome too 

the first two siren fights were jokes
charge with brittle skin +  burnign halo + vampire's embrace
last one i got killed because i had 2 uses of charge


----------



## Axl Low (May 2, 2013)

Im liking these spoilers of a new AI chaarcters DLC.
Martyr Booker with Daisy
or Wounded knee with SLAAAAAAAATE

both would be awesome for the various reasons we all know


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 20, 2013)

just finished bioshock 2, looking for a good place to score infinite for cheap now


----------



## Axl Low (May 20, 2013)

Jena plays BI?


----------



## Mael (May 20, 2013)

Bioshock 1 was fantastic for its swipe at Ayn Rand and Libertarianism, and Infinite was grand for its scathing critique against both the Founders and Vox Populi.  2K does have itself something going on with its commentary combination of Bioshock 1, Spec Ops: The Line, and Bioshock: Infinite. :33


----------



## Jena (May 20, 2013)

Axl Low said:


> Jena plays BI?



You bet your ass I do.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 20, 2013)

Jena said:


> This is why I have a hard time agreeing with people who say this game is racist and imply that it should've been "cleaned up" because of it.
> 
> In terms of race, this game is _painfully_ accurate. Reading things from that time period really puts into perspective just how warped everything was. The voxophone you mentioned is virtually identical to the rhetoric that was being spouted at the time. So, yes, Bioshock Infinite is racist. Because the time its set in was a racist culture hinged on binaries and oppression.
> 
> ...



Yeah, people saying the game is over the top are ignoring that a lot of that kind of rhetoric was common back then and people really did say these types of things about other races. 

There was a blog someone on my facebook posted about why we need to have discussion about things like the fact that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. When you play through Bioshock Infinite there are portions where you see how the indoctrinate the children and all of the citizens really to think they're better than everyone else and that they're special just by virtue of being white Columbians. 

When you think about it we indoctrinate children today with the public school system and how in many areas part of it's mission is to instill pride in the children without presenting the truth as it was. They dumb down the slave trade and the reasoning behind the Civil War. They play up the role of figures like Washington and Jefferson. People like Thomas Edison are mentioned as the sole cause for technologies today while minds like Tesla are left as if they never contributed anything. 

The citizens of Columbia present a startlingly similar group to a lot of the people of America. I think that's one of the most disturbing things about the game.


----------



## Shiftiness (May 20, 2013)

So how did you all deal with the handymen? Because my strategy was to jump on the rails, wait for them to start electrocuting the rails, then shoot them. Very very boring, but it worked, eventually.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 20, 2013)

Shiftiness said:


> So how did you all deal with the handymen? Because my strategy was to jump on the rails, wait for them to start electrocuting the rails, then shoot them. Very very boring, but it worked, eventually.



On my second play through? The Crows. I mean nothing works better.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 30, 2013)

ordered infinite for 40$, will start playing next week


----------



## Tsukiyo (Jun 3, 2013)

just finished the game. dat ending


----------



## Stumpy (Jun 11, 2013)

Bioshock Infinite Polycount art dump


(good stuff for potential photoshopping)


----------



## Olivia (Jun 12, 2013)

Does 2K have anything at E3? I was hoping for some announcement about the DLC.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 14, 2013)

Mael said:


> Bioshock 1 was fantastic for its swipe at Ayn Rand and Libertarianism, and Infinite was grand for its scathing critique against both the Founders and Vox Populi.  2K does have itself something going on with its commentary combination of Bioshock 1, Spec Ops: The Line, and Bioshock: Infinite. :33



likes bioshock 1 criticism of libertarianism, doesn't mention bioshock 2 criticizing  socialism


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 14, 2013)

so has it been confirmed that the songbird is based on big daddy technology?


----------



## Death-kun (Jul 14, 2013)

Yes. Fink observed the Big Daddies through the tears and based the Songbird off of them.


----------



## αshɘs (Jul 16, 2013)

went over to deadendthrills to see if they updated their album



yep. some stunning shots.


----------



## Krory (Jul 20, 2013)

It's late July as far as I'm concerned, where the fuck is my DLC announcement, Irrational?


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 20, 2013)

whats the deal with the dlc?  i've been hearing lots of complaints


----------



## Krory (Jul 20, 2013)

There's nothing to complain about, per se, as there hasn't been any news as far as I'm aware. There's supposed to be a reveal in "late July" they said last month. Still waiting on that.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 20, 2013)

it's fucked up to ask people to prepay the dlc and then the developer screws them. but 2k had done this b4 with bioshock 2 dlc, so it's just 2k being 2k i guess


----------



## Krory (Jul 20, 2013)

The developer isn't the one that screws them. At least get that much right.

And no one _has_ to prepay for the DLC. They can if they want - Season Passes don't go away for a while, either... so you could variably just get it when all of the DLC is out.

Then again I got mine for free so I can't complain.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 20, 2013)

"at least get that much right" someones on their period


----------



## Krory (Jul 20, 2013)

Hey, if you think that excuses your ignorance, whatever floats your boat, kiddo.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 20, 2013)

**


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jul 20, 2013)

Stunna said:


> **



Exactly


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 20, 2013)

god dang shut ins, we're trying to carry on a conversation in here, take ur psycho meds and wait for 20 minutes b4 coming in here again


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 23, 2013)

so, was dewitt part native american or not?


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2013)




----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jul 23, 2013)

FUCK 

Not using that shit again


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 23, 2013)

too bad that bow and arrow set in the game didn't work


----------



## luminaeus (Jul 25, 2013)

I'd like to barge in and saw this was probably one of the best Action games I've ever played, the storyline is brilliant and the ending sticks with you for days, it's like watching an amazing film.


----------



## Jena (Jul 25, 2013)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> so, was dewitt part native american or not?



I don't know if it was officially confirmed, but I'm pretty sure he was.

There's a voxophone series about a man who finds a Sioux child and he mentions that Dewitt speaks the language. There's also a voxophone from Comstock that talks about how Comstock/Booker was teased in the army about being part Native American (which was what prompted him to fight so vigorously in the war to "prove" he wasn't...which then later led to his guilt...which led the baptism...)


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 25, 2013)

those are the exact two sources i was referring to.  unfortunately this plot point doesn't seem to get discussed at all.  

anne's mother died at/after birth as well, i'm wondering if these are all related.  

Booker could have been part native american, or just spoke the language bc of his war military experience.  But to say that he looked native , that's very direct insinuation of dewitt's background.


----------



## Death-kun (Jul 25, 2013)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> so, was dewitt part native american or not?



Um... no. What makes you think he was?


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 25, 2013)

read the two previous post


----------



## Death-kun (Jul 26, 2013)

Ahh, I see, I forgot about those parts. 

Although Booker doesn't even look Native American. The most probable explanation that I can think of is that his family wasn't a bunch of ignorant settlers that killed every native they came across, and he might have had a Sioux grandfather or grandmother that taught him the language or something. 

It's hard to say how close he was to the actual tribe, but he had to have learned the language from somewhere. In any case, he ended up massacring the Sioux.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 28, 2013)

1999 mode 

u really got to know how to manage ur resources to get thru the enemy, or else ur gonna waste salt and health everywhere. 

i'm not gonna lie, about to start farming silver and gear


----------



## Deathgun (Jul 30, 2013)

No one posted this yet? 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpgvZay10jE[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Zaru (Jul 30, 2013)

-Alternative timeline story instead of shoehorned continuation
-Older, femme fatale Elizabeth
-Intact Rapture to explore

Welp, seems like one of the few DLCs I might actually buy someday


----------



## Burke (Jul 30, 2013)

took a gamble getting the season pass when the game came out
i do not regret


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jul 30, 2013)

My body is ready


----------



## MessiahZach (Jul 30, 2013)

This DLC looks very nice.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2013)

I don't know why, but I just pictured Hank saying that through your avatar and found it funny.


----------



## Kani Kitsune (Jul 30, 2013)

Cant wait for this DLC looks very awesome and interesting 
Loved the game wish they expanded more on the tears through time though xD
Loved it when you heard music from the future ^^


----------



## Jena (Jul 30, 2013)

The noises that came out of my mouth when I saw the trailer were inhuman.

So fucking excited.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 30, 2013)

i wonder if clash in the clouds is anything like the protector trials in pt 2


----------



## Suzuku (Aug 3, 2013)

Finally got around to playing this. I'm in the middle of trying to get Elizabeth to the First Lady Airship (or w/e it's called). Really liking it so far. 

What's the best way to beat those turrets? I'm playing on hard and they're tearing me up. It's hard to fight them, 10 other enemies, and the fire dudes all at once.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 3, 2013)

u can beat turrets with a positive attitude , medication, and the help of family and friends.


nah, jk...i use possession on most turrets, if u think hard is tough, 1999 is crazy


----------



## Axl Low (Aug 3, 2013)

actually i did 1999 mode without dying once D


----------



## MessiahZach (Aug 3, 2013)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> u can beat turrets with a positive attitude , medication, and the help of family and friends.
> 
> 
> nah, jk...i use possession on most turrets, if u think hard is tough, 1999 is crazy



Possession is amazing in 1999 mode, especially with the upgrade that reduces the cost. Its pretty useful for taking out the heavy enemies who carry RPGs/Volley Guns.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 4, 2013)

Axl Low said:


> actually i did 1999 mode without dying once D



u musta been restarting ur checkpoints constantly, i'm pretty stingy with silver dollars but even i had to accept that it's better to lose a 100 silver dollars than fight all the enemies that mode has.  I'm in emporia now and i'm dreading fighting lady comstock.


----------



## Naruto (Aug 4, 2013)

Stunna said:


> I don't know why, but I just pictured Hank saying that through your avatar and found it funny.



I'll tell you hwat.


----------



## Suzuku (Aug 4, 2013)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> u can beat turrets with a positive attitude , medication, and the help of family and friends.
> 
> 
> nah, jk...i use possession on most turrets, if u think hard is tough, 1999 is crazy


My possession rns out in two minutes and then I'm back in the same boat. And for some reason I can't kill  it while it's possessed, or at least not with a pistol.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 4, 2013)

no, u  can't kill something possessed, but the turret can usually clear all the other enemies for u , shock the turret than empty a clip on it.  works ery time.  

in harder modes though, i would think that ur enemies take out the turrets.  in 1999 mode possessed turrets are hardly any help, they get taken out in an instant.


----------



## Suzuku (Aug 4, 2013)

I can't shock anything yet. All i have is possession, the first spell, and the Raven spell.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 4, 2013)

should be relatively easy to shoot the turret then, there's a delay as it scans for enemies and turns to shoot, in which it can be destroyed.

1999 mode, u learn how to use the vigors in ways u didn't know, stopping sniper bullets while sniping


----------



## Suzuku (Aug 4, 2013)

I don't know I swear it always attacks me as soon as I stick my head out.


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## Axl Low (Aug 5, 2013)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> u musta been restarting ur checkpoints constantly, i'm pretty stingy with silver dollars but even i had to accept that it's better to lose a 100 silver dollars than fight all the enemies that mode has.  I'm in emporia now and i'm dreading fighting lady comstock.


without dying or restarting check points
i hoarded money for possession for less and keep the sniper for the whole game

upgrade charge and get some melee items/clothing


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## Slice (Aug 5, 2013)

I finished 1999 with the "Dont buy anything from the dollar bill vendors" achievement and still thought it was pretty easy. Only tough parts were the Handymen.

A bit of luck with the clothing helps though, i had the "become invincible for 8 seconds after eating something" and "regenerate Salt on a kill" ones. Possession and Murder of Crows all day long.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Aug 5, 2013)




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## andrea (Aug 5, 2013)

just when i thought i couldn't love elizabeth more...............


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 5, 2013)

Axl Low said:


> without dying or restarting check points
> i hoarded money for possession for less and keep the sniper for the whole game
> 
> upgrade charge and get some melee items/clothing



farming money at the bank of the prophet


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## Axl Low (Aug 5, 2013)

bank of the prophet?
i never bought anything.
first thing i bought was PfLess

wintershield = broken
moving to or from a skyline gives you 4-5 second invulnerability


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 6, 2013)

Axl Low said:


> bank of the prophet?
> i never bought anything.
> first thing i bought was PfLess
> 
> ...



see , wintershield is actually not that broken , cause even the wintershield can be cracked if enough people are shooting at u....hmmm

i didn't say u farmed money, i'm farming money, it's super easy at bank of the prophet


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## Axl Low (Aug 6, 2013)

oooh.
how do you farm there?

best weapons for 1999 mode w/o dollar bill is sniper and shotgun/handcannon/RPG


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 6, 2013)

there's a crow man in the bank who appears at the end  a long hallway, u have to turn around to see him.  You can only kill him with charge and some some powerful guns, but he drops 50-250$ ea time u kill him, and u can do it as many times as u want, no need to leave the area.  i bought every upgrade i wanted , guns and vigors, in like 45 minutes of farming.


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## MCTDread (Aug 6, 2013)

I just beat the game..... I am at a loss of words...  and I feel sad... I don't know why. Anyone else felt that? 

Played all 3 Bioshock games in the  last 4 months. I owe it to Ken Levine and the staff at Irrational Games for making my summer very entertaining.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 6, 2013)

i finished all 3 this summer too   ima beat 1999 mode (should take me a day or 2) , then the dlc.   

got borderlands to move onto after bioshock


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## MCTDread (Aug 6, 2013)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> i finished all 3 this summer too   ima beat 1999 mode (should take me a day or 2) , then the dlc.
> 
> got borderlands to move onto after bioshock



 nice 

I wanna do 1999 mode now too. I was 7 Voxophones shy of having all 80


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 6, 2013)

u  haven't played the game till u played it in 1999 mode.


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## MCTDread (Aug 6, 2013)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> u  haven't played the game till u played it in 1999 mode.



I accept the challenge ahead .

Now I can't wait till Burial At Sea.


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## Axl Low (Aug 7, 2013)

1999 mode was wicked fun.
You will have so much respect for the sniper and possession for less in 1999 mode.


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## Suzuku (Aug 7, 2013)

So when will I have an opportunity to go back to some old areas to like, decipher the Vox Populi messages and open up chests with locks and shit? I'm in Finkton and it doesn't seem like I'll ever get back.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 7, 2013)

u don't get to go back, this world isn't as wide open as other bioshocks. u have to take care of those bonuses as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

i noticed elizabeth in ur sig has obvious partially exposed nippage


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## Suzuku (Aug 7, 2013)

What that sucks 

And that's not Elizabeth.


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## Slice (Aug 7, 2013)

MCTDread said:


> I was 7 Voxophones shy of having all 80



I played extremely slow, searched everything and everywhere (i thought) and when i finished i was missing 13.
Fixed that during the 1999 playthrough and found the rest.

Only thing i should have done differently is start the game in 1999 for the first time. I am pretty much terrible at FPS games yet 1999 was the only mode that didnt feel too easy.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 8, 2013)

just finished 1999, it was tough, but I pretty much mastered every vigor and weapon going thru that mode.  should make the DLC a breeze.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 8, 2013)

anybody get the season pass recently?  i'm thinking of getting it, i want those extra infusions /gears, i'm willing to play thru hard /medium again just to use it.  also, when does the DLC come out? 2014?


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## MCTDread (Aug 8, 2013)

Slice said:


> I played extremely slow, searched everything and everywhere (i thought) and when i finished i was missing 13.
> Fixed that during the 1999 playthrough and found the rest.
> 
> Only thing i should have done differently is start the game in 1999 for the first time. I am pretty much terrible at FPS games yet 1999 was the only mode that didnt feel too easy.



I hate that  you think you looked everywhere but you didn't. 



NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> anybody get the season pass recently?  i'm thinking of getting it, i want those extra infusions /gears, i'm willing to play thru hard /medium again just to use it.  also, when does the DLC come out? 2014?



I just bought it yesterday. Clash in the Clouds is basically Bioshock 2's Protector Trials. I love the combat so it's a blast. I'd say get it.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 9, 2013)

I just got the season pass, right now only clash in the clouds is out, no burial at sea yet


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## MCTDread (Aug 9, 2013)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> I just got the season pass, right now only clash in the clouds is out, no burial at sea yet



I love that there's a museum with concept art and character models in CiTC... 

Really looking forward to seeing that Kinectoscope with Troy and Courtnee auditioning.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 18, 2013)

i played thru one more time, on medium setting, just to see how easy it was  after 1999, super easy

even found an extra voxophone i missed b4.

on to clash in the clouds.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 19, 2013)

how the hell do u defeat 2 handymen and a patriot.  and that's just the end of the first wave


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 22, 2013)

i was able to beat 3/4 of the clash arenas, 1 more left, also opened up most of the museum, pretty cool stuff, nothing earth shattering, just more info on the making of the game and the universe.

also, the secret to defeating handymen for me is kinda stupid, but reliable...i'll never tell


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 22, 2013)

finished clash in the clouds. that ending


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## MCTDread (Aug 28, 2013)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> finished clash in the clouds. that ending



Indeed. I yelled uwah!? 

 I finally have all 60 Blue Ribbons!!


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 28, 2013)

i think i only have half the ribbons.  some of them were nuts, kill a handy man with just the hand cannon,  i might try again someday tho, taking a break


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## MCTDread (Aug 29, 2013)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> i think i only have half the ribbons.  some of them were nuts, kill a handy man with just the hand cannon,  i might try again someday tho, taking a break



The Hand Cannon one was easy. Just fully upgrade it and I always use firearm friendly tunics. 

The most bothersome ones were ones like kill all enemies as they are distracted by a Booker Decoy or Kill the Siren before she resurrects someone or kill both Handyman as they electrocute the Sky Line.... 

Took me a while but I finally my stubborn brought out the best 

My winning formula for killing Handymen was this.... 

Happy Trigger Finger + Fully Upgraded Hailfire = LOTS OF DAMAGE.


----------



## Jake CENA (Sep 19, 2013)

I started playing this on my ps3 yesterday on hard diff and i dunno if its just me but its so freaking hard to aim in this game. I adjusted my sensitivity so many times and still cant get used to it..


----------



## Inertia (Nov 14, 2013)

I thought Burial at Sea was solid in the gameplay department and okay in the story department. It's not as great as Minerva's Den however since that DLC had more depth in terms of gameplay and a more thought out story.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Nov 14, 2013)

wtf, i was expecting an announcement when it came out, i haven't turned on my xbox in 2 months.


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## Jena (Nov 15, 2013)

Inertia said:


> I thought Burial at Sea was solid in the gameplay department and okay in the story department. It's not as great as Minerva's Den however since that DLC had more depth in terms of gameplay and a more thought out story.



Well to be fair this is only part 1 of 2, so the story will probably make more sense once part 2 is out.


----------



## Inertia (Nov 15, 2013)

Jena said:


> Well to be fair this is only part 1 of 2, so the story will probably make more sense once part 2 is out.


Part 2 won't change some of the flaws in Part 1, such as the small conversations between Booker and Elizabeth. I hate their conversations since they make metaphors that feel forced and cheesy. Some of their conversations don't even sound very realistic.


*Spoiler*: __ 



For example, when Booker asks Elizabeth why she's looking for Sally, Elizabeth simply says that she's trying to reunite him and Sally. Booker then says nothing, as if he accepted Elizabeth's answer without questioning her. If I were in Booker's shoes, I would definitely question why a complete stranger is trying to reunite me with a lost friend.




I don't necessarily care if the story in Burial at Sea makes complete sense. What I really want is a story that impacts me emotionally. The original Bioshock had a flawed story(especially the ending), but what made its story so great is the fact that it has a lot of charisma, style, and conviction towards its central themes. Minerva's Den had a story that isn't overly complex on paper, but it does what it's good at, which is telling a story that impacts the player emotionally. Burial at Sea is more of a story about the twists and turns that Elizabeth and Booker go through, and there isn't a lot of build up for me to be invested in these characters. Only the audio logs and seeing Rapture in its prime were great. Booker and Elizabeth were not appealing however in my opinion.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 16, 2013)

I got this game recently. I can't play more than 1 hour straight, I get so motion sick and my eyes hurt like hell. No idea what's causing it, but starting from the bottom of Monument Island to the point where find out you need Shock Jockey to call a gondola, I physicly wanted to shut my eyes closed hard and puke. The fact there is no way to manually save the game makes it a whole lot worse.

I also had fuckload of problems getting it to work in the first place. Lousy optimisation and hardware bugs to boot. Took me 3 hours to get past the opening segment, I had to repeat the ascension sequence (4-minute long unskippable cutscene) numerous times, just for it to crash the game towards the end. 

And the 2-weapons system is driving me crazy. It's just disgraceful.

Good writing and a beautiful world, but now I'm at the point where Vox Populi lady pushes me out a ship, and I am not particularly impressed. Game feels more like a chore than an enjoyable experience.

edit:
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT!? I'm at Good Time Club, I've reached the cells, and I got stuck on a chair. I restarted from checkpoint, and I'm 30 minutes back. This is horrible!

//HbS


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## Agent of Chaos (Nov 16, 2013)

Inertia said:


> Part 2 won't change some of the flaws in Part 1, such as the small conversations between Booker and Elizabeth. I hate their conversations since they make metaphors that feel forced and cheesy. Some of their conversations don't even sound very realistic.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



The problem is that Booker


*Spoiler*: __ 



Isn't Booker but Comstock and meets the fate of the guy from the original Bioshock trailer


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Nov 16, 2013)

Hunted by sister said:


> I got this game recently. I can't play more than 1 hour straight, I get so motion sick and my eyes hurt like hell. No idea what's causing it, but starting from the bottom of Monument Island to the point where find out you need Shock Jockey to call a gondola, I physicly wanted to shut my eyes closed hard and puke. The fact there is no way to manually save the game makes it a whole lot worse.
> 
> I also had fuckload of problems getting it to work in the first place. Lousy optimisation and hardware bugs to boot. Took me 3 hours to get past the opening segment, I had to repeat the ascension sequence (4-minute long unskippable cutscene) numerous times, just for it to crash the game towards the end.
> 
> ...



Wow, a trainwreck of an experience. Sucks that it's going so horribly.  Good thing that I experienced absolutely 0 of those problems. 

The game is obviously a result of a fucked up development. Check the early trailers of the game (Hell, check the later trailers) and read the interviews and you'll see that this game was supposed to be much more grand and vast than what it turned out to be. Levine said that he cut enough content for 10 games and I'm think he wasn't even exaggerating. The fact that he rewrote the entire story in around 2/3 weeks also shows. 

I really like Infinite but at the end of the day I only see lost potential stuck in a linear package.


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## Hunted by sister (Nov 18, 2013)

Just finished the game. While it was a good ride writing-wise, the story wasn't anything to write home about, and frankly, I found the ending to be lame. Lazy. It was more of a bad Star Trek fanfiction rather than a legit story, and it doesn't even hold on to it's own laws. There is so many possibilities existing simultaneously, and yet, they deal with one person and everyone is fixed? 

It's also depressing. Not in a good way, like Dark Souls, Spec Ops: The Line or Metro series, where it's a mark of a well manafactured world and/or good storyline. No, here it's depressing, because of two things. One, what happens and how it happens, completly out of nowhere. Two, since it happens, the ending clearly states that you have no choice in your life, there is destiny and you can't fight it even if you have the knowledge of the future, which is bolded by the fact that gameplay in the ending half-an-hour is limited to pressing F on certain objects. 

And gameplay.... This game is a prime example of limiting, retarding gameplay in favour of storyline and characters. While Spec Ops: The Line had an average gameplay, they took the bog-standard working model and left it at that, in Bioshock Infinite, they had a great, working framework, and they fucked it up with a clear intention. The fact you can carry only two weapons, that you can carry only so little ammo, no medkits, no salts, and the fact you get a weak regenerating shield, all opposed to previous Bioshocks, it's all to make you appreciate Elizabeth more when she throws you the stuff you need. Appreciate her, and via proxy, the story, more. 

As consequence, one of my favourite parts to Bioshock series, visible weapon upgrades, are gone. Sure, upgrades are there, but they don't show. That's because you swap weapons too much as a consequence of previous parapgarph, you can't get too attached. Well, I went through the entire game on Hard with a Shotgun and a Sniper rifle, and because I made literally nearly every shot count, I had to swap weapons only like 3 times, the final battle being only one.  

And the world... such a beautiful world... except it's as deep as your average DVD case. And the choices! Whole three! All meaningless! Funny how Booker says "This is the last time someone gets a drop on me" and literally he doesn't get to talk in person with ANYBODY after that, everyone starts shooting as soon as they see him.

And last but not least, I'd really fucking appreciate if the game stopped showing me god damn tutorial messages. "It's the final battle guys, and so far I've died only like 4 times on Hard difficulty!" I mean come the fuck on!

And all that with that vomit inducing... something, I've got no idea. This is the first and only game that literally made me want to puke and made my eyes hurt like hell after playing for an hour, even after I set the FoV to what I like. Maybe it's excessive motion blur? No idea.

Long story short. This game is the biggest disappointment since Command & Conquer 4: Tiberium Twilight.

Twins were a great highlight, though. 
edit:
Ok, this blew my mind:



//HbS


----------



## Jena (Nov 18, 2013)

I think your review is interesting, because I had almost the exact opposite response to the game.

I saw the ending and meaningless choices as an answer _to_ the trend of choices in gaming. The first Bioshock featured two different endings that generated their own critical response. I see that as baggage that went into Infinite. Infinite essentially says...yeah, your choices are meaningless. So what? While I'm guilty of loving choices in a game, it's actually a huge misnomer in gaming – even when you have "choices", you're extremely limited. You can only progress through the game using the game itself. Thus choices in games are really just the _illusion_ of choice: we want to feel like the choices in games matter or influence the game when they really don't. I saw Infinite's ending as a reaction to this: it tells you _straight-up_ that your choices don't matter. Essentially, I saw it as a critique of gaming: with Booker being the central figure of each universe (the gamer) and Elizabeth as the _real_ control (the game/developer/whathaveyou).

I'm actually working on a huge-ass thing with Bioshock Infinite and the Stanley Parable and all this shit atm, ha ha.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 18, 2013)

I have no problem with singular ending and the absence of choices, nor the opposite. As long as it's done well. As long as it means something. The ending of Infinite was meaningless because it felt like I wasted 12 hours of my life. The only other time I felt like it was when I finished RAGE in what felt like a point at 70th% of the game. 

It didn't make a lot of sense, actually. While we can safely assume that all Bookers from all these trillions of realities have stood in that river to make the same decision, the only way drowning him would prevent everything from happening is if all Bookers had merged right there, which obviously couldn't happen. And if it did, it'd blow him up. Merging two Bookers caused him to bleed - now multiply that by infinity. Instant brain 'splosion. Oh, and it's a classic time paradox as well. The way time is presented in the game (ocean) prevents solving that paradox.

edit: 
Playing Burial at Sea now. Fucking game bugged out, I can't pick up any weapons. I'm stuck with a Shotgun and a Tommy Gun, EXCEPT THERE'S NO FUCKING AMMO! And since Elizabeth was busy picking a lock from the other side, I had to fight two fucking Frosties with melee and nothing else. Hard difficulty. So I restarted the game. Not only I was put 25 minutes back (according to the game my last save was 2 minutes ago), and it also didn't fix the fucking problem. Niiiice.... 

edit2: so appereantly you can hold more weapons than 2. Except they're only available in the pause-radial menu, which I looked at once, saw two weapons and never used again. This is retarded. Explains why I couldn't pick up other guns.

This time around Elizabeth is useless. I love how she decides not to throw me that desperately needed first aid kit the moment the last enemy gets shot.

Oh, and I hoped for a more Bioshock-y DLC, all I got was Infinite underwater. And this one doesn't even make any sense to happen, and it literally proved that main game's ending was nonsense and absolutely meaningless.

Plus, the final bossfight was shit. All they had to do, was copy previous Bioshocks. But noooo! This one was horrible. Elizabeth didn't throw me SHIT during that fight (ammo, ONCE, nothing else), and it took me 10 minutes, because I ran out of ammo, Eve and the 4 medkits. And that hook attack? Who the fuck thought of that? It's homing, and yeah, it works through walls and floors, and every time, even if you don't reach the boss, you are stunned for a moment, move in slow-mo and take damage. Fucker would just stand there and throw the hook through a wall for 3 minutes straight, every 10 seconds. That was annoying as fuck. 

And what a cold cunt Elizabeth is. So yeah, a couple of Bookers became Comstocks and imprisoned different versions of her, and this one got her killed. So she goes on a crusade to mentally torture and murder every single fucking one, even those that didn't become Comstock, and those Comstocks that threw away their power and life trying to legimately repent. Bitch, you burned New York and millions of people, committed a genocide and somehow you're the ok person?! That's way worse than what Comstock did! 

Plot twist - Elizabeth is the villain of Bioshock Infinite.

By the way, this just dawned on me. Elizabeth kills Booker at the point in timeline where he makes a choice to either become Comstock or a Pinkerton agent. And yet the Booker Elizabeths drowned has already made that choice years earlier in his timeline. How the fuck does this cancel out Comstocks?! As Burial at Sea proves, IT DOESN'T! AT ALL! This makes me think that Elizabeths have made a horrible mistake at the end of Infinite, and the ones that disappeared were actually rescues from Comstocks by 123rd Booker and Main Elizabeth. And they disappeared because they killed him before he could rescue them, and Main Elizabeth fails on her own. 

//HbS


----------



## Rios (Nov 19, 2013)

Pretty underwhelming DLC. The new weapon is the only good thing about it, everything else is average and below. 

- severely limiting your plasmid usage
- sucky shooting mechanics with unnaturally fast dodging enemies and clunky wheel
- random fights in already cleared parts of the levels to prolong the experience
- final boss fight which ranges from extremely easy to frustrating depending on your ammo reserles
- sky hooks and reality warping aka Infinite style in a game, which should resemble the previous Bioshocks
- ending we've already seen before, I swear if the next so called episodes end in the same fashion there would be no point to even play them

EDIT: Oh yea, the tutorial messages are here in full force all the way till the final boss battle. Its pretty amusing


----------



## Jena (Nov 19, 2013)

Hunted by sister said:


> I have no problem with singular ending and the absence of choices, nor the opposite. As long as it's done well. As long as it means something. The ending of Infinite was meaningless because it felt like I wasted 12 hours of my life. The only other time I felt like it was when I finished RAGE in what felt like a point at 70th% of the game.



That was my point, though, I saw it _as_ meaning something ? as a confrontation of the illusion of choice in gaming.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 19, 2013)

I am not sure I get the purpose of that statement on choices and multiple endings. It's a basic design choice. There are cases where choices are meaningless and in fact are an illusion, but on the other hand we've got games where the choices actually make a difference. And depending on how much you value the details, the number of game in both pools is different.

And honestly I doubt Bioshock Infinite is a statement on anything. Maybe except two depressing things, 
1. destiny cannot be fought, 
2. 2K set up a stage for an unlimited number of sequels in the franchise.

//HbS


----------



## Jena (Nov 19, 2013)

Hunted by sister said:


> I am not sure I get the purpose of that statement on choices and multiple endings. It's a basic design choice. There are cases where choices are meaningless and in fact are an illusion, but on the other hand we've got games where the choices actually make a difference. And depending on how much you value the details, the number of game in both pools is different.
> 
> And honestly I doubt Bioshock Infinite is a statement on anything. Maybe except two depressing things,
> 1. destiny cannot be fought,
> ...



My point is that in all games, even games where your choices impact the narrative, your free will is an illusion. Because of the inherent nature of video games, you're restricted to making the choices the game _allows_ you to make. And in the case of more strict narrative games ? say, the Walking Dead ? certain events in the game are going to happen regardless of what you chose. Basically, all the choices and decisions you make in a game you make because the game allows you to make those choices, and you can't "jump the rails" so to speak and make a 4th choice when there's only 3 choices, for example. That's what I personally saw happening in the end of Bioshock Infinite.

Basically I saw the game as a metafictional statement ? that's really what I'm arguing.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 19, 2013)

Jena said:


> My point is that in all games, even games where your choices impact the narrative, your free will is an illusion. Because of the inherent nature of video games, you're restricted to making the choices the game _allows_ you to make. And in the case of more strict narrative games – say, the Walking Dead – certain events in the game are going to happen regardless of what you chose.


By this definition, free will doesn't exist in real world as well. 

And since I am a big fan of free will in real life, I will argue that just because you're taking actions within a specific set of parameters, and there are things that will happen regardless of what you do doesn't mean your choices are an illusion.

Fuck, just look at X-Rebirth or EVE. If that's an illusion of choice to you, then you only have an illusion in real life as well. 

//HbS


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Nov 19, 2013)

finished ep 1.   way too short, the mechanics of fighting are unrefined and moving the plot is kind of clunky, i felt like i often did major things by accident.  

the dialouge was kind of weak.  the trailer showed most of the interesting things .

overall, i am underwhelmed to underimpressed.  if ep 2 is like this, the season pass will have been not worth much.


----------



## Jena (Nov 19, 2013)

Hunted by sister said:


> By this definition, free will doesn't exist in real world as well.
> 
> And since I am a big fan of free will in real life, I will argue that just because you're taking actions within a specific set of parameters, and there are things that will happen regardless of what you do doesn't mean your choices are an illusion.
> 
> ...



Sorry, perhaps I should've clarified: I was talking about in narrative-based games. So, games like Bioshock, Mass Effect, The Walking Dead where there's a plot, but at several points you have to make a choice (that theoretically impacts the overall narrative). I saw Infinite's ending as an answer to that trend. Obviously games like EVE are a completely different ballpark.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Nov 19, 2013)

i think of the infinite in bioshock referring to a progression the series offers in the number of choices a player can make, and what that actually signifies in a game.

in pt 1, u only had 2 choices, kill the sisters or harvest them.  this changed the ending of the game, but it's a weak idea, why would a person get one chance to make a choice and be a good or bad person forever

then in pt 2 u had multiple choices to make resulting in up to 6 endings, but in reality there were only 2 endings, one where the girl becomes evil, and one where she doesn't. 

part "infinite" acknowledges /states that a player  has many choices that can turn various things in various directions.  but many of those choices are just cosmetic.  only a few are pivotal, and the final outcome is being good or evil, regardless of how many choices you made, are essentially pivoting on the few significant choices. ie when booker baptizes himself, it dominates his future.


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## Inertia (Nov 19, 2013)

Jena said:


> Sorry, perhaps I should've clarified: I was talking about in narrative-based games. So, games like Bioshock, Mass Effect, The Walking Dead where there's a plot, but at several points you have to make a choice (that theoretically impacts the overall narrative). I saw Infinite's ending as an answer to that trend. Obviously games like EVE are a completely different ballpark.


Do you think Bioshock Infinite is criticizing the games that do multiple endings themselves, or do you think Bioshock Infinite is criticizing the mindset of a person going into these branching plot driven games.


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## Hunted by sister (Nov 20, 2013)

Jena said:


> Sorry, perhaps I should've clarified: I was talking about in narrative-based games. So, games like Bioshock, Mass Effect, The Walking Dead where there's a plot, but at several points you have to make a choice (that theoretically impacts the overall narrative). I saw Infinite's ending as an answer to that trend. Obviously games like EVE are a completely different ballpark.


I believe you're looking way too deeply into this. And what you said doesn't deny what I said. Your choices can save or kill characters, destroy or save locations, etc etc. The most minor things make a difference, even if it's just a single character present or absent at the ending. You're looking at it all in the grandest scheme - and you know what? In the grandest scheme, the most minor choices in narrative-driven games are much more meaningful than your average human's entire life in real world.

Please don't spoil me on The Walking Dead, by the way  haven't played it yet.

Anyway, I believe you're looking way too deeply into the ending. This is most definitely not some grand statement on the state of industry or anything. Mostly because discussed issue is absolutely not an issue in the first place, and if it was a statement, they've done a really shitty job on it. Oh, and if it was what you claim it to be, they wouldn't do it again in Burial at Sea Ep.1. They'd just leave it at that in Infinite. 

Plus, the ending of Infinite doesn't state anything on illusion of choice. If anything, it shows us that there are infinite choices, even minor ones, that can lead to drasticly different results and worlds! It's exactly the opposite you're claiming it to be.

What about my other issues with the game?  do people agree?

//HbS


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 20, 2013)

Whoa, whoa.

The Walking Dead is an example of choices actually mattering and affecting the narrative, so that's not really example of something Bioshock is commenting on, because the Walking Dead has a far more interactive and decision heavy story than Infinite.  And, we've had decisions that affect the narrative in a meaningful way all the way back in the 90s; it's callout Fallout.

I don't think there's that much to Infinite.


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## Hunted by sister (Nov 20, 2013)

Also, from newer stuff, for example Dishonored. Simple choice of killing enemies or just knocking them out affects the game. Not just the ending. If you go full lethal and full non-lethal, you will quickly notice differences, in lethal playthrough there will be more rats, more sick people, more dead people, less healthy civilians... etc

//HbS


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## Jena (Nov 20, 2013)

I'll keep this brief because I'm getting the sense that people think I'm annoying/don't really care about this.



Inertia said:


> Do you think Bioshock Infinite is criticizing the games that do multiple endings themselves, or do you think Bioshock Infinite is criticizing the mindset of a person going into these branching plot driven games.



I see it as criticizing the mindset. And "criticizing" isn't really the word I'd use...more like "answering to." I saw the game as saying "it doesn't matter what choices you make, you're always going to end up at certain points, and there are only a limited number of actual endings." Constants and variables.



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Whoa, whoa.
> 
> The Walking Dead is an example of choices actually mattering and affecting the narrative, so that's not really example of something Bioshock is commenting on, because the Walking Dead has a far more interactive and decision heavy story than Infinite.  And, we've had decisions that affect the narrative in a meaningful way all the way back in the 90s; it's callout Fallout.
> 
> I don't think there's that much to Infinite.



I'm saying that if you look at it from a broad perspective, the ending happens no matter what choices you make.


*Spoiler*: _walking dead spoilers_ 




Lee dies no matter what. You can't change that. _That's_ the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'm not saying "choices don't matter at all and are pointless" or that games can't be shaped by choices, I'm saying that the perception people have of "my choices are going to drastically change the game" is, in some cases, flawed because certain events in the games are *going* to happen no matter what you do. Ok, think of it this way: the perception is that narrative-based choice games are like an endless field of possibilities, when really they're more like paths that branch off and then come together. That is my point, that's all I was trying to say. Fine if people don't see it that way or if I'm "reading too much into it" but that's how I enjoy my fiction and I (evidently erroneously) thought it might be worth sharing.


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## Jena (Nov 20, 2013)

Ok this has nothing to do with anything we were talking about, but fucking hell I ruptured a lung laughing at this


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## Stunna (Nov 20, 2013)

That's amazing.


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## Buskuv (Nov 20, 2013)

Jena said:


> I'm saying that if you look at it from a broad perspective, the ending happens no matter what choices you make.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _walking dead spoilers_
> ...




There's nothing wrong with thinking that way; I also understand where you're coming from.

However, much in the case of Spec Ops: the Line, it was a case of already having understood and gone through these dichotomies long before Infinite and The Line came out, and much of the power of such a device falling flat.  It didn't help that Infinite was a fucking slog to play through (), but it was nice that a AAA game had a pretty intensive attention to narrative and fiction, but if a game wants to be taken as 'intelligent,' it had better hold up under a lot more scrutiny than the average game--there are arguments for both sides on Infinite's case.

My biggest problem is the cognitive dissonance between Infinite's gameplay and the story--something The Line did much, much better, in that the actual game, how you play and what choices you do make are ultimately much more effective than the bizarre design choices Infinite sometimes pulls on you.  

Levine rewrote the entire story in a few weeks, and I honestly wonder he had in store before that.


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## Inertia (Nov 20, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> However, much in the case of Spec Ops: the Line, it was a case of already having understood and gone through these dichotomies long before Infinite and The Line came out, and much of the power of such a device falling flat.


If you don't mind me asking, what dichotomies are you referring to? Is it about the whole illusion of choice discussion you two are having? If so, are you saying that the illusion of choice topic has been done in fictions that have come out before Bioshock Infinite(like The Matrix)? 


> My biggest problem is the cognitive dissonance between Infinite's gameplay and the story--something The Line did much, much better, in that the actual game, how you play and what choices you do make are ultimately much more effective than the bizarre design choices Infinite sometimes pulls on you.


Can you give an example of these bizarre design choices? I'm under the assumption that you're referring to parts of the game such as choosing heads/tails or bird/cage, but I can't tell for sure.


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## Inertia (Nov 22, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I think Bioshock Infinite does do a good job in telling a story about player agency and fatalism in video games. When it comes to a story that applies to real life however, that's where things can become a little indecisive. One of the things that made the story interesting is the mystery behind the laws of its multiverse and how that all related to real philosphical themes such as free will and determinism. While the idea of constants and variables does have a strong philosophical implication, it doesn't sound consistent enough to be scientifically feasible. I'm not necessarily saying that Ken Levine should make a multiverse that's based on real life scientific theories, but at least establish consistent laws so that you're not giving the impression of using convenient plot devices that don't make entire sense in the real world. 

Constants and variables does make sense within the nature of video games(and this  does a good job at explaining it), but not in terms of real life. It's this restriction where I feel as though Bioshock Infinite doesn't reach the ambition of other fictions that have themes which do apply to real life(such as The Matrix).

While I do believe that constants and variables does make sense within the nature of video games, it does still seem like a convenient plot device for the story of Booker and Elizabeth since the developers can pretty much determine what can be a constant and what can't without much logical reasoning. Which is one of the reasons why I think the story of the characters themselves isn't very great, since it seems to rely a lot on the riddle of the multiverse theory. I see the characters more as giving context to the bigger picture of what Bioshock Infinite is trying to say, and this bigger picture seems to relate more towards the experienced gamer as oppose to the average person.


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## Hunted by sister (Nov 23, 2013)

Jena said:


> I'm saying that if you look at it from a broad perspective, the ending happens no matter what choices you make.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _walking dead spoilers_
> ...


I understand where you're coming from, and I agree with you, kind of. In every game there are events fixed in time and space. However I personally appreciate the ride in between them, that can be drasticly different, and also the details that change in these events depending on what you did earlier.

Then again, completly changing the storyline isn't what choice is about.

//HbS


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## Axl Low (Nov 25, 2013)

Jena said:


> Ok this has nothing to do with anything we were talking about, but fucking hell I ruptured a lung laughing at this


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## Alien (Jan 1, 2014)

Hope episode 2 of Burial at Sea is a bit more meaty. Liked the first one but wasn't really bang for buck.

Tempted to replay the full game after im done with Bioshock 1 & 2


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## Jake CENA (Jan 2, 2014)

Most overly hyped and most disappointing game of 2013. I dont even get why some people consider this a nominee for GOTY


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 2, 2014)

cause it had a good story  although i personally disliked the linear nature of the game, that's not bioshock. they stripped out all the upgrades, attachments, and shit like that in favor of standard FPS nonsense


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## Tazmo (Jan 2, 2014)

This thread is now closed it has a continuation thread *Here*


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