# Deathwing vs. Juubi, Madara, and Naruto



## Geralt of Rivia (Jun 5, 2013)

Deathwing the Destroyer takes on the top tiers of Naruto. 

Who wins?


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## NightmareCinema (Jun 5, 2013)

Deathwing >>>>> HST


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## trance (Jun 5, 2013)

Deathwing oneshots the Juubi and eats Madara and Naruto.


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## OS (Jun 5, 2013)

Isn't the Juubi ridiculously strong though?


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## NightmareCinema (Jun 5, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> Isn't the Juubi ridiculously strong though?



When Juubi hits country-level DC and durability, then maybe it can match Deathwing. Until then, Deathwing horribly rapes this.


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## shade0180 (Jun 5, 2013)

Juubi is Country level DC/Durability Mach 143 reaction and 3 digit mach Beam attack near or probably higher than the reaction. Not sure about long distance speed since he is just standing still...




> When Juubi hits country-level DC and durability, then maybe it can match Deathwing. Until then, Deathwing horribly rapes this.


 He is country level Durability and DC


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## trance (Jun 5, 2013)

NightmareCinema said:


> When Juubi hits country-level DC and durability, then maybe it can match Deathwing. Until then, Deathwing horribly rapes this.



Actually, the Juubi does have country level DC and durability. It's BB was calced at 250 teratons and it tanked the same BB internally which failed to hurt it (just made it a bit wobbly). The speed of its BB is also calced at mach 141.


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## NightmareCinema (Jun 5, 2013)

Lazers said:


> Actually, the Juubi does have country level DC and durability. It's BB was calced at 250 teratons and it tanked the same BB internally which failed to hurt it (just made it a bit wobbly). The speed of its BB is also calced at mach 141.



Really? Huh... I thought it was at multi-island or something... My bad if that's the case then.


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## trance (Jun 5, 2013)

NightmareCinema said:


> Really? Huh... I thought it was at multi-island or something... My bad if that's the case then.



It was discussed but I think it was generally accepted. I think Flutter did the calc. Maybe Chaos.


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## shade0180 (Jun 5, 2013)

BB speed is mach 160


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jun 5, 2013)

Mach 143 is for Kyuubi's BB from the flashback.


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## trance (Jun 5, 2013)

It was mach 160...even better and Juubi still got one more form to show off.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2013)

Not sure if he can tank Juubis attacks

Depends on how impressive this is i guess:



He shits on the Naruto team in DC though

Life-wiper and all with Cataclysm


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

> Life-wiper and all with Cataclysm


do you mean the spell/attack he was gonna use during his raid encounter ? Where you had to kill him before he uses it. Wouldn't it have considerable charging/prep time then ? Or you meant something else ?


I stopped playing WoW before Cataclysm  only read some bits


and what was that spell supposed to do ? kill all life/raze the planet ?


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## Stermor (Jun 5, 2013)

deathwing still has intercontinental speed in minuts faster then people could warn the other city's(while instant portals are quite commen).. 

not sure what mach speed that would get you though..


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

> deathwing still has intercontinental speed in minuts faster then people could warn the other city's(while instant portals are quite commen)..


you mean from the Cataclysm cinematic ? you see him fly there, you can probably calc it


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## Stermor (Jun 5, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> you mean from the Cataclysm cinematic ? you see him fly there, you can probably calc it



ye, but how? we don't know an exact time frame for the the feat(just that it is quick) nor do we know the exact space between the continent/ the size of the continents themself..


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

well he emerged from Blackrock Mountain (? I think) and went to Stormwind, right ? you can scale that off a map, but you'd need to know Eastern Kngdoms continent size ... 


timeframe I'm not sure, it shows him emerge, then cuts to 1 or 2 places he flew over and then he lands .. so we don't see most of it


ofc you can easily calc the parts that actually show him fly in real time via timeframes, but I doubt that would even come out to hypersonic


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> do you mean the spell/attack he was gonna use during his raid encounter ? Where you had to kill him before he uses it.



Yes 



> Wouldn't it have considerable charging/prep time then ? Or you meant something else ?



No preptime



> and what was that spell supposed to do ? kill all life/raze the planet ?



Probably both as it was stated all life would be *destroyed* and the world would be split


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## Hyperion1O1 (Jun 5, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> No preptime



No prep? Then why wasn't he able to use it


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

> No preptime


so it's instant ? why didn't he use it then ?


can he himself survive it ? 

is it like an explosion or something he shoots out of his mouth or just a spell effect ?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

eh, I'll go read about Deathwing on wowwiki


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> so it's instant ?



Not at all 



> why didn't he use it then ?



Because he was battered on when trying? 



> is it like an explosion or something he shoots out of his mouth or just a spell effect ?



The former:


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

ok, so if he's uninterrupted - how fast can he use it ? and can he survive it ?


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## shade0180 (Jun 5, 2013)

Considering it's a game he probably can use it after 5 turns, I'm not sure how long that duration is though?. if it was an event.  maybe


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> ok, so if he's uninterrupted - how fast can he use it ?



1 minute casttime, its firebased too



> and can he survive it ?



We never find out for sure


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

@ BLS is this what you meant ?




> [Cataclysm]?*Deathwing attempts to finish the job he started by bringing forth a second Cataclysm*, inflicting 1,500,000 Fire damage to all players.




some quotes:


> I SHALL TEAR THIS WORLD APART!
> I SHALL SHOW YOU A TRUE CATACLYSM!
> WATCH AS YOUR WORLD COMES TO AN END!
> 
> ...





this particular attack only seems to be used in his final fight form _Madness of Deathwing_


> A warped mass of molten hatred and unfathomable power, this formless, mindless horror cannot be stopped. Whatever was left of Neltharion the Earth-Warder is long gone, his mind and soul corrupted and devoured by his Old God masters. All this monstrous being desires is destruction, annihilation, and the end of all things.


there seem to be Old God shenanigans at work here (IIRC he grows some tentacles). Were they somehow powering him there or it's just fluff ? 


does he ever try to use this particular attack in his normal dragon form ?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

incidentally, Jewbi has an attack that can be translated as _Cataclysm_ too (the giant storm thing), though it's not nearly as powerful


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## Stermor (Jun 5, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> well he emerged from Blackrock Mountain (? I think) and went to Stormwind, right ? you can scale that off a map, but you'd need to know Eastern Kngdoms continent size ...
> 
> 
> timeframe I'm not sure, it shows him emerge, then cuts to 1 or 2 places he flew over and then he lands .. so we don't see most of it
> ...



the cut scenes make him look slow.. but then again we have a cutscene of him taking a sun... 

he flew to kalimdor aswell.. which is much more impressive then the short flight from blackrock to stormwind.. 

but again i have no real clue how to calc it.. just that is got to be rather fast..


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> @ BLS is this what you meant ?



Well duh



> some quotes:
> 
> this particular attack only seems to be used in his final fight form _Madness of Deathwing_
> there seem to be Old God shenanigans at work here (IIRC he grows some tentacles). Were they somehow powering him there or it's just fluff ?
> ...



Does it really matter when its never been banned in earlier threads?


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2013)

And unless the feat i posted earlier can be properly quantified i doubt he can tank Juubis attacks


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

> Does it really matter when its never been banned in earlier threads?


I don't care about earlier threads, only this one 


though that one Kalecgos quote says he has to gather all his power for that, so I guess it would be his max output


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2013)

In others words, you want to downplay by banning it when the Naruto side likely wins anyway


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

nope, I'm examining the circumstances of the feat in as much detail as possible

and I never used the word _ban_, that was you 



if you don't want to discuss it, just say so


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

^ Ben mentions some feats, perhaps Deathwing can win via his mind powers ?


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> nope, I'm examining the circumstances of the feat in as much detail as possible



Sure you do 



> and I never used the word _ban_, that was you



But you are implying you want to 



> if you don't want to discuss it, just say so



If i didnt want to i would have stopped posting by now buddy


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

> But you are implying you want to


if that was so I'd have said so instead of asking a question


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2013)

Have you looked at this


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

skimmed it




> a black force shot out and struck Deathwing head-on.


does this black force have DC feats ?


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2013)

Dont think so

But i thought it would be possible to get something from him being knocked across a continent


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

probably, but IIRC you can punch shit to the sun with island level energy, so eh

he probably weighs a good bit though 


any official size figures ?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

that's pretty convenient


still need the distance he flew


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2013)

Guess someone needs to login to WoW for that


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## lokoxDZz (Jun 5, 2013)

I think he solos the verse 


Also for distance,i'm pretty sure that he took just few hours too take a tour over all the continents


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## Omnirix (Jun 5, 2013)

Deathwing is stronger than Ragnaros who shattered the Redridge Mountains and created a volcano. His cataclysm still changed the geographical landscape of Azeroth. Before turning insane, Deathwing was responsible for creating mountains and rivers for the benefit of the world's denizens. 

He outguns Team Naruto but he is still susceptible to mindrape like what the Old Gods did to him, so I think he only needs to worry about Madara's genjutsu and gets to him before it happens. 



lokoxDZz said:


> Also for distance,i'm pretty sure that he took just few hours too take a tour over all the continents


Zeppelins like the Skybreaker can match top tier drakes like Deathwing and Kalecgos in speed. Last I checked Zeppelins aren't that fast.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

> His cataclysm still changed the geographical landscape of Azeroth


if you mean the Shattering then that is because he destroyed the World Pillar when he burst out of Deepholm which was some kind of support for the earth elemental plane




> Deepholm was also the place where Deathwing was nursed back to health after the events of Day of the Dragon. After he regained his health he ruptured out through the middle section of Deepholm above the Temple of Earth, which housed the World Pillar. Following Deathwing's Shattering of the World Pillar in Deepholm and his destructive re-emergence into Azeroth, the Elemental Plane collided with the physical realm and resulted in drastic geographical upheaval, causing chaotic elementals to pour out into the world of Azeroth.


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## Glued (Jun 5, 2013)

Not even Ysera of the dreaming would dare enter Neltharion's mind.

With a single stare, Neltharion turned archbishop Benedictus into his prophet

It took the whispers of 3 old gods to finally drive Deathwing to madness

Deathwing mind controlled Rhonin for days



Would Madara, dare look Neltharion in the eye?


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## Geralt of Rivia (Jun 5, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Guess someone needs to login to WoW for that



In-game scale broski. There's not much data on how big Azeroth really is. There might have been some info I read before, but have no evidence right now, where it takes like 2 weeks by Zeppelin to get to Eastern Kingdoms from Kalimdor. 

Perhaps in one of the books where they had to Northrend or something can shed some light.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

technically speaking

we can just assume Azeroth planet size = Earth size and that automatically gives us a circumference (40,000 km) which lets us scale maps


but like I said I need to know how far he flew when he was punked by the Dragon/Demon Soul


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## Greedy master (Jun 5, 2013)

in order to beat deathwing you need 6 tsunade  , 3 raikage , 11 onoki , 5 naruto total: 25 and you still gonna wipe over and over , deathwing's madness alone could consume the whole planet , juubi is country buster at best ,  deathwing will accidentally burn and kill madara and naruto then he will eat juubi like a burger.


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## Geralt of Rivia (Jun 5, 2013)

Yeah I think it's very hard to calc. The thing is that WoW landscape now is extremely different from how it was before, it's like Pangaea. The Well of Eternity was in the zone Azshara, which is here:



But those 2 continents and Northrend presumably, were all connected at the time of Deathwing being blown back, so he might have had to travel across the landscape of the Eastern Kingdoms and pass the eastern shore of that continent.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

so

he flew from Azshara/your circle to .. where ?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

btw, he already had his adamantium plates armor when that happened, right ?


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## Stermor (Jun 5, 2013)

multiple blasts from Gohma Vlitra this movie shows him visiting a few places.. 

which would give him flight capacity pretty much across the globe..

with darnassus beeing in the top left corner.. him flooding thousend peaks(bottem left).. then him going to stormwind bottem right 

that is pretty much all across the globe....


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2013)

I thought he just flew straight to Stormwind 


though we already knew he can fly anywhere


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## Stermor (Jun 5, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> I thought he just flew straight to Stormwind
> 
> 
> though we already knew he can fly anywhere



oh that might be possible aswell(with the piers beeing the wetlands(looks like darnassus though).. but then he was causing multi country wide floods from across another continent..  apperently as a side effect from his escape..


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## DarkTorrent (Jun 5, 2013)

That's because he destroyed the World Pillar (more like damaged) that separated the Elemental Plains from Azeroth.


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## Bioness (Jun 5, 2013)

Ben Grimm said:


> Not even Ysera of the dreaming would dare enter Neltharion's mind.
> 
> With a single stare, Neltharion turned archbishop Benedictus into his prophet
> 
> ...



Telepathy is always sketchy as hell to try and compare to other verses. But given that Madara can control the Juubi, could Deathwing reasonably do that as well?



DarkTorrent said:


> That's because he destroyed the World Pillar (more like damaged) that separated the Elemental Plains from Azeroth.



It wasn't just the World Pillar being split that caused all that, Deathwing flying and filling the air with fire was shown as well. The World Pillar wasn't destroyed by the way, but split into three parts, it would have been destroyed if not for Therazane holding it together.


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## Jakotsu06 (Jun 5, 2013)

Deathwing can take alot of damage i mean he took a direct shot from the dragon soul which should pack quite the punch. Took a second once some of his armor was tore off by players and it went right threw his chest. Took a third shot using all the power of the dragon aspects to bring him down at last. As for deathwings power he should be a life wiper when he is bloodlusted by the old gods with the final attack he attempts. This is supported by quotes from the other aspects during the fight. 

I think and this is a opinion but there is no way to prove its true or false but i am under the impression Deathwing while under the old gods control didn't want to die. Unleashing this final attack he prob knew would kill him. As seen in the end time instance the world had ended but it spent all his life force and he himself died. Only after the second hit from the dragon soul did he lose it and know longer care if he lived or die. This is supported by at first he was attempting to flee to deepholm again to heal and regroup. 

I think Deathwing might be able to pull out a win but his speed is hard to nail down as you cant really figure it out in game. Worst case i think Deathwing can tank enough hits to withdraw and use the cataclysm spell to end the match in a draw assuming he doesn't care if he lives or dies.

Slight Deathwing Win to Draw assuming his most powerful attack kills him which it seems it might


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## shade0180 (Jun 5, 2013)

> *I think* and this is a opinion but there is no way to prove its true or false but i am under the impression Deathwing while under the old gods control didn't want to die.





> there is no way to prove its true or false



 then it's pointless in this debate


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## Jakotsu06 (Jun 6, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> then it's pointless in this debate


Well I added that part to further enplane why i go with a draw. Regardless if he wanted to die or not he can wipe out all life on a planet.This was stated by beings that were very old and knew what they were talking about. My adding of my opinion only added the fact that i thought that if deathwing did this it would also kill him regardless of his state thus the draw

But since it has no place in this debate then Deathwing wins via flying to the other side of the world or just high into the sky and cast spell . I am fairly sure he has the durability to tank enough hits to get out range and cast his 1 minute spell.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 6, 2013)

the quotes suggest that life-wiping is legit, dragons wouldn't have their panties in a twist otherwise




> I am fairly sure he has the durability to tank enough hits


this though, has no proof atm


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## Jakotsu06 (Jun 6, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> the quotes suggest that life-wiping is legit, dragons wouldn't have their panties in a twist otherwise
> 
> 
> this though, has no proof atm


 It depends on how powerful you put the hits he took from the dragonsoul plus being flung off the horizon over in the war of the ancients. Tthe OBD wiki has Deathwing at country level + durability prob higher with his armor whatever that's worth. Fairly sure taking two hits from the dragon soul is a good durability hit. He could of taken more but players jumped on his back during the spine of deathwing fight and were able to tear off 3 plates to give thrall a open shot. The first shot only slightly wounded him by tearing off one plate.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 6, 2013)

so how hard does dragon soul hit ? feats ?


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## Jakotsu06 (Jun 6, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> so how hard does dragon soul hit ? feats ?


 Depend on how much stock you put into the power of the aspects. The soul itself from what i understand is powerless. It gets it power from however much the aspects charge into it. It took them giving away every last ounce of their immortal powers to put down a nearly destroyed deathwing. 

If i could find any durability for elementium that would be a big help since that's what his armor is made of but sadly i can not. All i can say is its been widely accepted that Deathwing has country level durability so you would have to put the Dragonsoul up there with country level power wouldn't you?

The only other thing i know is the dragon/demon soul was so powerful it was used along with the well of eternity to open the portal to allow sargeras enter the world. I will try and find some of the books online to read threw as summery s from wowpedia can skip some stuff.


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## DarkTorrent (Jun 6, 2013)

> All i can say is its been widely accepted that Deathwing has country level durability



From what feat?


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## Glued (Jun 7, 2013)

Deathwing in human form.

Thrall in Elemental Form punched Deathwing's human form, this was a punch that Thrall felt would have destroyed a mountain or two.

Deathwing didn't even care. Keep in mind however that Deathwing wasn't even in dragon state when this happened.


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## Bioness (Jun 7, 2013)

Ben Grimm said:


> Deathwing in human form.
> 
> Thrall in Elemental Form punched Deathwing's human form, this was a punch that Thrall felt would have destroyed a mountain or two.
> 
> Deathwing didn't even care. Keep in mind however that Deathwing wasn't even in dragon state when this happened.



That isn't why he's at country level.


DarkTorrent said:


> From what feat?



From various scalings compared to other characters as well as him physically breaking from Deepholm.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 7, 2013)

> From various scalings compared to other characters


such as ? 




> physically breaking from Deepholm.


breaking out of Deepholm means he's country level in durability ?


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## Bioness (Jun 7, 2013)

Or destructive, since Deepholm is technically not part of the physically realm yet is connected below the Maelstrom, especially meaning he broke through the crust.

And such as the other Dragon Aspects, given power directly from the titans and more powerful and the Elemental Lords, one of which created an entire mountain range stretching several "zones" just by emerging, and another is responsible for why the entire surface of Azeroth wasn't destroyed by the World Pillar breaking.

Though something I do not like is how destructive capacity and durability are taken so poorly. You remember the entire blast radius with surface area discussion we have had several times before, well it is bringing flashbacks right now.

So massive attack that is flashy and destroys rock, then same rocks, like a fire getting country destructive capacity because it burned down a forest, is above a concentrated attack? Like oh, I don't know the Dragon Soul?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 7, 2013)

it wasn't destroyed, it was reshaped a lot though

hence the whole Cataclysm thing


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## Bioness (Jun 7, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> it wasn't destroyed, it was reshaped a lot though
> 
> hence the whole Cataclysm thing



I edited for clarity.



Bioness said:


> And such as the other Dragon Aspects, given power directly from the titans and more powerful and the Elemental Lords, one of which created an entire mountain range stretching several "zones" just by emerging, and another is responsible for *why the entire surface of Azeroth wasn't destroyed by the World Pillar breaking.*



Aka this MILF right here.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 7, 2013)

so what did she do exactly and how much Joules is it ? and how does it relate to Deathwings durability ?


preferabbly with quotes


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## Bioness (Jun 7, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> so what did she do exactly and how much Joules is it ? and how does it relate to Deathwings durability ?
> 
> 
> preferabbly with quotes



How many people here actually like Warcraft enough to do calculations? I just see myself and Ben Grim. Therazane held the World Pillar together which caused the situation to not be "everything dies". The World Pillar is eventually repaired by her and the Earthen Ring (a special group of Shamans)

That would require someone to scale the planet of Azeroth to Earth size, then measure the changes done in each zone, changes which we never actually saw in full.

)



> The coastlines of Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms shifted, flooding some old lands and exposing new ones. Whole parts of the world, like Thousand Needles and a large chunk of Tanaris, ended up underwater. In some cases, tidal waves caused by the Shattering flooded or destroyed coastal settlements like Auberdine, Rut'theran Village, and Feathermoon Stronghold, forcing their residents to relocate — usually inland. Even far from the coast, fires, avalanches and lava eruptions changed some areas beyond recognition.



I already said the destructive capacity is what likely caused "people" to come up with the country level durability.

If I am going to entertain this (at 2:21 am) then respond to my posts about blast radius vs. surface area in the case of the Juubi Bomb. 

Warcraft is just a pain to measure, the in game world is clearly sized for reasonable play and the characters don't outright focus on destroying land or showing you how fast they can travel. Not saying give up, just difficult and goes to the point that not enough people here have an interest in it to calculate stuff like Kaiser did with Pokemon (many thanks by the way).


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## Doge (Jun 7, 2013)

Deathwing takes flight and hurls Narutoverse into a cataclysm.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 7, 2013)

> How many people here actually like Warcraft enough to do calculations? I just see myself and Ben Grim.


wasn't aware either of you did calcs 

there are Warcraft fans here





> Therazane held the World Pillar together which caused the situation to not be "everything dies". The World Pillar is eventually repaired by her and the Earthen Ring (a special group of Shamans)


so her actual personal feat is holding a big rock together .. how big is it exactly ? 




> That would require someone to scale the planet of Azeroth to Earth size, then measure the changes done in each zone, changes which we never actually saw in full.


the changes were caused by this :


> After he regained his health he ruptured out through the middle section of Deepholm above the Temple of Earth, which housed the World Pillar. Following Deathwing's Shattering of the World Pillar in Deepholm and his destructive re-emergence into Azeroth, *the Elemental Plane collided with the physical realm and resulted in drastic geographical upheaval*, causing chaotic elementals to pour out into the world of Azeroth.






> Therazane held the World Pillar together which caused the situation to not be "everything dies"


do you have some quotes of this ? 





> If I am going to entertain this (at 2:21 am) then respond to my posts about blast radius vs. surface area in the case of the Juubi Bomb.


you don't have to entertain this if you don't want to

what does that have to do with current discussion ?


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## Bioness (Jun 7, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> wasn't aware either of you did calcs



We don't, that is the problem.



> so her actual personal feat is holding a big rock together .. how big is it exactly ?



Uhhhh....

*Spoiler*: __ 










That big >.>

Though I suppose it could be argued that she only held a linchpin together, so no matter what she did, the World Pillar is what holds the realms apart, but she held (possibly not literally) together....think of a lever.



> what does that have to do with current discussion ?



Nothing, though I brought it up because it is a fact that people often ignore with these large explosiony attacks.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 7, 2013)

it ultimately depends on how much energy an attack holds, with some variations .. that energy can come from many different sources





> So massive attack that is flashy and destroys rock, *then same rocks, like a fire getting country destructive capacity because it burned down a forest*


I legitimately have trouble understanding what the bolded is about


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## Bioness (Jun 7, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> I legitimately have trouble understanding what the bolded is about



Did I mention it's 3am?

Anyway going to sleep.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 7, 2013)

good  night


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