# The Russian-Ukraine Crisis Thread



## Megaharrison (Jan 23, 2014)

> Ukrainian opposition leaders have issued an ultimatum to President Viktor Yanukovych, after talks failed to resolve the political stalemate.
> 
> Vitali Klitschko said he would lead pro-EU protesters "on the attack" in the capital, Kiev, if the government refused to call snap elections.
> 
> ...



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25853329

Surprised you ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) haven't made a thread about this yet

Also here's a fun vid I found of army tanks on their way to Kiev:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSQ989fCrbU[/youtube]


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## navy (Jan 23, 2014)

Whose fault is this?


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## Taco (Jan 23, 2014)

really curious to see how this plays out (mainly because the armenian community is also split on the whole eu vs russia situation). either way there are going to be a lot of unhappy people in Ukraine


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## scaramanga (Jan 23, 2014)

Burning policemen

[YOUTUBE]cuO53xeZkm8[/YOUTUBE]

Retard and stun grenade

[YOUTUBE]DRaKabPG_n4[/YOUTUBE]


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## olaf (Jan 23, 2014)

Taco said:


> really curious to see how this plays out (mainly because the armenian community is also split on the whole eu vs russia situation). either way there are going to be a lot of *dead* people in Ukraine


fixed for you

the whole riots on the street thing doesn't suprise me that much, since government did only stall and talk about some future compromises with prostesting oposition. So the fact that some of the protest lost their temper was quite predictable

But the fact that state is using very oppresive state methods (people disappear from the hosptials and turn up dead) frightens me. I doubt that Ukraininans will revert back to their communist mentality (even though some of them would like that) and will stop protesting just because government showed their teeth

I'm afraid that it will turn into big war on streets of Kiev (and maybe some other big city) and EU can just sit back and prepare for the Tirbunal in Hague


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## Utopia Realm (Jan 23, 2014)

Welp, this looks very similar to some clusterfucks I've seen before. Might be a long couple months over there.


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## olaf (Jan 23, 2014)

Utopia Realm said:


> Welp, this looks very similar to some clusterfucks I've seen before. Might be a long couple months over there.


you do realise that the protesters are occupying the Majdan square for couple months now


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## Utopia Realm (Jan 23, 2014)

olaf said:


> you do realise that the protesters are occupying the Majdan square for couple months now



I was more of the lines of bombs, explosions and a civil war to be honest.


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## Scud (Jan 23, 2014)

Utopia Realm said:


> I was more of the lines of bombs, explosions and a civil war to be honest.


I don't know if you'll see anything as advanced as "bombs" being used. Thus far, all they've done is hurl rocks, molotov cocktails, and fireworks at the police. That, and they've erected a massive flaming barrier of tires between the police and themselves.


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## Utopia Realm (Jan 23, 2014)

Tatumaru said:


> I don't know if you'll see anything as advanced as "bombs" being used. Thus far, all they've done is hurl rocks, molotov cocktails, and fireworks at the police. That, and they've erected a massive flaming barrier of tires between the police and themselves.



I'd give the riots a while longer till such a thing does happen. Probably won't but the possibility is still on the table.


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## Overwatch (Jan 23, 2014)

Well, here's hoping that things settle down. It hasn't been that long since Yugoslavia self-destructed, so I'm hoping that both sides strive to avoid further escalation.


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## Zaru (Jan 23, 2014)

> Vitali Klitschko said he would lead pro-EU protesters "on the attack" in the capital, Kiev, if the government refused to call snap elections.



I'm terrible

I just imagined an early 90s sidescrolling beat-em-up game where you punch through the streets of Kiev as Klitschko
Bonus characters Putin and the Ukrainian president


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## olaf (Jan 23, 2014)

*Spoiler*: _Berkut (ukrainian riot police) having fun time with one of their prisoners. probably NSFW. (oh and remember that it's -11 celcius (12 F) during day in Kiev)._ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5JQYANfZQA[/YOUTUBE]


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## Mael (Jan 23, 2014)

av said:


> edit: Alright, so basically this dude finds some tanks (3) being loaded and films them. The guy filming asks the officer-seeming dude where the tanks are going and whether he supports the revolution. The officer-dude starts fucking around with him and saying "to Kiev." Then he says "I am joking" quietly (enough that I missed it the first time, because camera dude starts cutting him off).
> 
> Then the cameraman / guy who published the video added a comment and said the tanks were not going to Kiev after all, but the Odessa-oblast, which is basically and administrative district around the port-city of Odessa.
> 
> There is no unrest in Odessa and no tanks being directed to Kiev.



I wouldn't count on Ukrainians/Russians to do something this stupid and heartless anyway (despite the rather true perceptions of them being cold as ice like Putya).  _*They're not the Chinese circa 1989 after all.*_


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## Megaharrison (Jan 23, 2014)

av said:


> edit: Alright, so basically this dude finds some tanks (3) being loaded and films them. The guy filming asks the officer-seeming dude where the tanks are going and whether he supports the revolution. The officer-dude starts fucking around with him and saying "to Kiev." Then he says "I am joking" quietly (enough that I missed it the first time, because camera dude starts cutting him off).
> 
> Then the cameraman / guy who published the video added a comment and said the tanks were not going to Kiev after all, but the Odessa-oblast, which is basically and administrative district around the port-city of Odessa.
> 
> There is no unrest in Odessa and no tanks being directed to Kiev.



I can't speak Ukrainian but guy who sent me this vid said it had the tank crews saying they were going to Maidan square. Oh well.


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## olaf (Jan 23, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> I can't speak Ukrainian but guy who sent me this vid said it had the tank crews saying they were going to Maidan square. Oh well.


unless this is brand new vid, I think it's the same vid that was posted during first week of the protests (because that one was also debunked using "they were joking" angle")


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## Megaharrison (Jan 23, 2014)




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## Scud (Jan 23, 2014)

Mega, you need to lurk /pol/ more. The whole tank thing is a joke. They've been saying "tanks in 30 minutes" for days now, and some gullible fucks actually take it seriously.


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## walkerandarazu (Jan 23, 2014)

HP - Salo! Salo is most amazing thing, everyone should try it! Anyway there's reports that from tommorow the following things might go offline in Ukraine if Janukovich will put the special situation act into motion:

1.All TV channels except Channel 1 Ukraine and Radio 1 Ukraine (both are channels run by Ahmetov (UkrAinian millionaire and controller of Janukovich (he should be added to the RPG list) also owner of coal shahts and owner of Shakhtar Doneck football club (hence real Ukrainian supports Denominations Kiev and hates Shakhtar)).
2.All internet will be down in Ukraine.
3.All mobile connections will be down, only landline will be working.

Also today's video of how Berkut is making fun of a protester, taking his clothes away and making him kneel in snow of 1,5 hour, beat him (into testicles as well) up and take 'trophy pictures' of him:

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=Gd0b2clZ9s8[/YOUTUBE]

Lots of patients are being kidnapped from hospitals by berkut as well.

P.S.President on the picture is Yushenko, old president, not the one now.


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## olaf (Jan 23, 2014)

FOR FUCKS SAKE

THAT ISN'T EVEN THE RIGHT PRESIDENT

FUCK!


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## Megaharrison (Jan 23, 2014)

olaf said:


> FOR FUCKS SAKE
> 
> THAT ISN'T EVEN THE RIGHT PRESIDENT
> 
> FUCK!



I know man. I also suspect Putin has never ridden a shark.


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## Atem (Jan 23, 2014)

Now that is a load of nonsense.

Of course Putin has ridden a shark.


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## Mael (Jan 23, 2014)

He's also ridden Megalodons.


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## Atem (Jan 23, 2014)

You can add meteorites to that list.


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## olaf (Jan 23, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> I know man. I also suspect Putin has never ridden a shark.


I do not know wha exactly putin rode on, but I do know that picture of putin on a shark fits 'boss-section' more than picture of former president Yushchenko that had assasination attempt at his life (oh and the presidential election he ran in was the starting point for the Orange revolution)


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## walkerandarazu (Jan 24, 2014)

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=-zrqcB934Qk[/YOUTUBE]

Schwarzenegger sending his message to Ukraine


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## Zaru (Jan 24, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> I know man. I also suspect Putin has never ridden a shark.



Shush it with your anti-russian propaganda, Israeli


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## Mael (Jan 24, 2014)

Zaru said:


> Shush it with your anti-russian propaganda, Israeli



I believe Mega hails from Russian roots actually...


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## Jersey Shore Jesus (Jan 24, 2014)

Can't wait till this stuff happens here in America. I'll be the first one to throw a rock. Srs.


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## Pliskin (Jan 24, 2014)

Jersey Shore Jesus said:


> Can't wait till this stuff happens here in America. I'll be the first one to throw a rock. Srs.



He who is without sin ....

On topic: chances for Ukraine getting a severe case of middle east? I'd say negligible but not zero anymore like I thought when I first heard Klitschko leading the opposition,


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## Mael (Jan 24, 2014)

Jersey Shore Jesus said:


> Can't wait till this stuff happens here in America. I'll be the first one to throw a rock. Srs.



But it won't.


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## BashFace (Jan 24, 2014)

walkerandarazu said:


> [YOUTUBE]Xs_OacEq2Sk[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> *Schwarzenegger sending his message to Ukraine*







Jersey Shore Jesus said:


> Can't wait till this stuff happens here in America. I'll be the first one to throw a rock. Srs.



I have never seen a contributive post by you, not saying it's a bad thing but I'm not saying it's a good thing.


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## KidTony (Jan 24, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> I know man. *I also suspect Putin has never ridden a shark*.



oh you naive you


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## Linkdarkside (Jan 24, 2014)

*Schwarzenegger throws weight behind Ukraine protesters*



> Kiev (AFP) - Arnold Schwarzenegger on Friday sent a video message of support to anti-government protesters in Ukraine, wishing them luck and making a peace sign.
> 
> 
> "I want to send a message to the people of the Ukraine to let them know that I wish them all the best of luck in their peaceful struggle for democracy and freedom," said the deeply tanned action star and former California governor.
> ...



http://news.yahoo.com/schwarzenegger-throws-weight-behind-ukraine-protesters-111256173.html


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## Jersey Shore Jesus (Jan 24, 2014)

BashFace said:


> I have never seen a contributive post by you, not saying it's a bad thing but I'm not saying it's a good thing.



The same could be said about you? And you decide what a contributive post is now?



Pliskin said:


> He who is without sin ....



We're not talking about a whore here my friend... We are talking about an oppressive government fucking its people.


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## Mael (Jan 24, 2014)

But the American government isn't.  You're just menstrual over guns.


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## Linkdarkside (Jan 24, 2014)

*Ukraine risks 'civil war': EU justice chief*



> Ukraine could risk creating a civil war if its doesn't get its "house in order", the European Union's justice chief told CNBC, as violent protests have gripped Kiev for two months.
> 
> The comments come after the first deaths in the troubles were reported Wednesday and as a fragile truce had begun between protesters and security forces.
> 
> ...





i hope there will not be a civil war.


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## Pliskin (Jan 24, 2014)

av said:


> What does it even mean? As in, lots of different factions going crazy?



That. Add  lots and lots of foreign influences trying to profit from this one way or another plus a regime that does not understand the concept of deescalation and both parties approaching a winner takes it all goal that makes compromise increasingly unlikely.

The set pieces for a real disaster seem to be there, I just think that the situation is not shitty enough right now to blow up. If this continues half a year though...


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## Arishem (Jan 25, 2014)

This protest is very photogenic:
*Spoiler*: __ 







Stream of the square: 

Stream with bilingual protestors who answer live questions in English:


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## walkerandarazu (Jan 25, 2014)

Yesterday one cop was killed by two unknown persons.

Today Yanukovich is willing to make Yaceniuk a Prime Minister and Klichko a Vice Prime Minister. They have yet to comment on this.

Seems like Yanukovich is throwing a bone to opposition. Will they take it, though? People clearly want Yanukovich out, but wealth for some people might mean more than staying in opposition.


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## Mider T (Jan 25, 2014)

You're gonna have to explain who those people are mr_shadow/Megaharrison/Jello/good poster style.


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## walkerandarazu (Jan 25, 2014)

> Ukraine's President Viktor Yanukovych has offered the position of prime minister to an opposition leader, Arseniy Yatsenyuk.
> 
> The offer came after talks on Saturday with opposition leaders in a new effort to end the worsening unrest that has spread across the country.
> 
> ...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25896786

I think it's also worth mentioning that Prime Minister is 3rd man in Ukraine. He's topped by President and Speaker of 'Verhovna Rada' (Ukrainian Parliament)


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## olaf (Jan 25, 2014)

icing on the cake is that with the prime-minister/vice-minister offer is the promise that government will make moves to change constitution to take power from president

on one hand it shows a bit that Yanukovych is trying to talk to protesters (and keep himself safe) but on the other hand it's quite risky, proposing to change how country works when it's in a flux and not breaking it completely


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## walkerandarazu (Jan 25, 2014)

olaf said:


> icing on the cake is that with the prime-minister/vice-minister offer is the promise that government will make moves to change constitution to take power from president
> 
> on one hand it shows a bit that Yanukovych is trying to talk to protesters (and keep himself safe) but on the other hand it's quite risky, proposing to change how country works when it's in a flux and not breaking it completely



It seems they - opposition have already declined the offer . They want a new constitution and vacant president sea:



> Barricades burned again in Kiev last night after Ukraine?s opposition rejected concessions from President Viktor Yanukovich, saying only his resignation would satisfy protesters who have taken over government buildings in the capital and other cities.
> The United States said yesterday it was working with European nations to help resolve the deepening crisis in Ukraine, as neighbouring Poland warned that the country of 46 million people could ?fall apart?.
> In his most substantial offer to the opposition during two months of demonstrations, Mr Yanukovich said next week he would reshuffle the government, row back on sweeping new laws, and give an amnesty to protesters arrested for minor offences.
> At the same time, he condemned ?radicals? for provoking clashes with riot police that killed up to five people this week, and vowed to use whatever legal means necessary to stop violent protests if no agreement was reached.
> ...




New fights erupted. Protestors somehow managed somehow to trap about 30 Berkut fighters inside a museum.


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## Xyloxi (Jan 25, 2014)

Mael said:


> But the American government isn't.  You're just menstrual over guns.



No Mael, Obongo is a tyrant, he stamps on the Constitution and the dreams of hard working Christian white folk. You'd understand if you were a real patriot.


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## Lyndon LaRouche (Jan 25, 2014)

He is really just a puppet for THEM.


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## The Pink Ninja (Jan 27, 2014)




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## Hozukimaru (Jan 27, 2014)

Obelix has some business to take care of.


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## Zaru (Jan 28, 2014)

*Ukraine PM resigns amid unrest, parliament revokes anti-protest laws*



> Ukrainian Prime Minister Mykola Azarov resigned on Tuesday while deputies loyal to President Viktor Yanukovich, acting to calm violent street protests, back-tracked and overturned anti-protest laws they rammed through parliament 12 days ago.
> 
> The first concrete concessions by Yanukovich since the crisis erupted two months ago brought cries of 'Hurrah!' from several thousand demonstrators on Kiev's Independence Square, focal point of the protests.
> 
> ...



http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/28/us-ukraine-azarov-idUSBREA0R0BR20140128

Holy shit, it seems like the opposition is actually winning. And all that in a european country in this day and age.


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## olaf (Jan 28, 2014)

I wouldn't call that a win, maybe a good start


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## Saishin (Jan 29, 2014)

> *Ukraine on verge of 'civil war', says ex-president*
> 
> Leonid Kravchuk, Ukraine's former president, has warned the country is on the brink of "civil war"
> 
> ...


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## dr_shadow (Jan 29, 2014)

I don't think it's neccessary to call for Yanukovich to resign since the next presidential election is only a year away (February 26 2015). A better demand is that he not run again.

I'm a bit annoyed at oppositions in various countries calling for "snap elections" whenever something goes against them. As long as you're not being violently oppressed (which has unfortunately becom the case here...) I think you should respect the terms of office and try to resolve things at the ballot box rather than in the streets.


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## olaf (Jan 31, 2014)

so one of the protesters that was missing for 8 days was released by his captors in the forest and he managed to reach help


more details here [bbc] (including video interview he did)

oh and police was outraged that he didn't call them when he was set free that they put him on their wanted list


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## Linkdarkside (Jan 31, 2014)

*Ukraine activist's story fuels torture squad fears*



> KIEV, Ukraine (AP) ? The bloody images of Ukrainian opposition supporter Dmytro Bulatov, who says he was abducted and tortured for more than a week, have fueled fears among anti-government activists that extrajudicial squads are being deployed to intimidate the protest movement.
> 
> 
> Bulatov, who was in charge of a vocal protest group before he disappeared Jan. 22, recounted a gruesome ordeal, saying his unidentified kidnappers beat him, sliced off part of his ear and nailed him to a door during his time in captivity.
> ...



http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-activist-39-story-fuels-torture-squad-fears-193407138.html


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## Mael (Feb 3, 2014)




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## horsdhaleine (Feb 4, 2014)

These Ukrainian protests look much more violent than that of Thailand.  I hope it won't be blown to full scale civil war. 

It seems like Yanukovich is more open to the prospect of elections. If it does happen, let's wish the transition would be smooth, unlike in some North African countries in the past years.


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## Jersey Shore Jesus (Feb 4, 2014)

How is Putin to blame for either one of these?


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## sAkuRaxSaSuKe4ever (Feb 4, 2014)

people not from ukrain should shut up if they don't know shit... my brother got jailed just few days ago by fucking police, ritary!!!


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## Jersey Shore Jesus (Feb 4, 2014)

Mael said:


> You're a fucking idiot.



I ask a serious question and you don't answer how the hell can we get anywhere on this forum!?!


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## Mael (Feb 4, 2014)

Jersey Shore Jesus said:


> I ask a serious question and you don't answer how the hell can we get anywhere on this forum!?!



Oh because the ever-so-convenient trading partners for Russia, Assad and Yanukovich, are brutally cracking down on assent and a responsible power like Russia who has incredible influence over said things is doing absolutely nothing about it, almost letting it be orchestrated by thine hand.

Y'know for a person who thinks his own nation is up to every little sneaky thing, you're fucking dense in regards to the rest of the world.

Jesus Christ...


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## dr_shadow (Feb 17, 2014)

*Ukraine protesters and police pull back in contest over president*



> *(Reuters) - Ukrainian opposition protesters ended a two-month occupation of city hall in Kiev on Sunday and opened a road to limited traffic, meeting an amnesty offer aimed at easing a stand-off over President Viktor Yanukovich's rule.*
> 
> The authorities, for their part, withdrew riot police from a flashpoint district of the capital, near the Dynamo Kiev football stadium, where at least three protesters died in January in violence between ultra-radical activists and police.
> 
> ...



http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/16/us-ukraine-idUSBREA1F05G20140216


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## Naya (Feb 17, 2014)

Tried reading the thread seriously, ended up rotfling.
Okay, are there any Ukrainians here? For real.


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## Overwatch (Feb 18, 2014)

> ?*Three shot dead? in Ukraine violence as protesters march on parliament*
> 
> 
> Opposition sources in Ukraine say three people have been shot dead in clashes with police, in Kyiv?s worst violence for more than three weeks.
> ...


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## gershwin (Feb 18, 2014)

They say they are starting antiterrorist operation now. Kiev is officialy in the state of emergency. Wow this night is gonna be tough


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## olaf (Feb 18, 2014)

I'm worried what I'll see in the news tomorrow morning, considering that there is talk of shit going down in Lviv too


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 18, 2014)

Damn, I thought this was just people from the EU and East Europe overreacting to tiny riots. I forgot that the Soviets basically perfected rioting. Then I saw this shit on the news. They're getting Los Angeles times ten out there.


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## walkerandarazu (Feb 18, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Damn, I thought this was just people from the EU and East Europe overreacting to tiny riots. I forgot that the Soviets basically perfected rioting. Then I saw this shit on the news. They're getting Los Angeles times ten out there.



Huh?  When does a riot becomes a real riot then? When someone breaks s??? up? When someone starts killing other side? If someone is doing something, there's a good reason for it and means they expect change from what ever is wrong. 

I saw CNN today, so much disinformation from journalists "on-spot" and so called "specialists", they get some facts right and then try to seem more 'intelegent'. The fail to mention main fact that Ukraine  are halfed into two sides - Ukrainians and cheeky Russians who don't want to live a better live than in Russia itself. Ukraine has democracy, not dictatorship and Yanukovich isn't as bad as some schmuck in Zambia. He passed some laws which were quite good for pensioners and regular folks, but there were some 'good' laws mixed in for tycoons who support Yanukovich and provide funds for him. One of those oligarchs named Kliuev just called to mayor of Kiev and ask for him to disband regular meetings of opposition on midan (regular meetings just to agitate people to vote for them in next election). The mayor tried to clear them out with regular and some students were hurt in process(back in October). Then opposition saw the opportunity to fight to get positions inside and used good will of people who are fighting for Ukraine against Russians (since Olygarchs asked Yanukovich to put their own Russian mayors and administrators in whole Ukraine). And then all hell broke loose. Klitschko shown that he's not a leader and just a wuss, talks went nowhere and people just using stored hatred to fight for Ukrainian nation.

And McCain can shut up. Everyone tried the peaceful way and it didn't work.

P.S. Trust nothing that media says, double check everything. And always remember that nothing is purely white or purely black, everyone has it's own good or bad values. Appearances aren't all they seem these days.

24 people died today already


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 18, 2014)

walkerandarazu said:


> Huh?  When does a riot becomes a real riot then? When someone breaks s??? up? When someone starts killing other side? If someone is doing something, there's a good reason for it and means they expect change from what ever is wrong.
> 
> I saw CNN today, so much disinformation from journalists "on-spot" and so called "specialists", they get some facts right and then try to seem more 'intelegent'. The fail to mention main fact that Ukraine  are halfed into two sides - Ukrainians and cheeky Russians who don't want to live a better live than in Russia itself. Ukraine has democracy, not dictatorship and Yanukovich isn't as bad as some schmuck in Zambia. He passed some laws which were quite good for pensioners and regular folks, but there were some 'good' laws mixed in for tycoons who support Yanukovich and provide funds for him. One of those oligarchs named Kliuev just called to mayor of Kiev and ask for him to disband regular meetings of opposition on midan (regular meetings just to agitate people to vote for them in next election). The mayor tried to clear them out with regular and some students were hurt in process(back in October). Then opposition saw the opportunity to fight to get positions inside and used good will of people who are fighting for Ukraine against Russians (since Olygarchs asked Yanukovich to put their own Russian mayors and administrators in whole Ukraine). And then all hell broke loose. Klitschko shown that he's not a leader and just a wuss, talks went nowhere and people just using stored hatred to fight for Ukrainian nation.
> 
> ...


You do realize LA has riots like twice a year and there's almost no deaths in them. That's the thing, a riot can mean just looting and destruction or something like what we're seeing now.


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## Chelydra (Feb 18, 2014)

good lord things are escalating over there. Good luck to the protesters.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 18, 2014)

Live from Ukraine

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_LFrMcoEm4#t=1374776[/YOUTUBE]


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## Zaru (Feb 18, 2014)

Sheeeeiiiiit


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 18, 2014)

Zaru said:


> Sheeeeiiiiit



At this point we could line up pictures from Cloverfield and the Ukraine and it would be hard to tell them apart.


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## Naya (Feb 19, 2014)

What the fuck with that "good luck to the protesters"? What the heck are you wishing from abroad? Good luck to the police. Nobody else, not the politics, not the nazi fuckers - just good luck to the police.
I wish they had ended the shit up this night. It's just sick and stupid, this playing around with the crowd of romantic idiots and nazi killers. You know the history of the political powers that try to climb up over the heads? You don't.
Seriously, this is not the majority of the nation. The majority is against. Just deal with it. Mass media lies everywhere.


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## olaf (Feb 19, 2014)

no. I won't wish good luck to the police, since they aren't acting like a police in democratic country should act

so no


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## Naya (Feb 19, 2014)

And the crowd is so democratic that kittens cry of joy when seeing them. Right.


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## olaf (Feb 19, 2014)

let's forget the protesters for a second, you are dismissing the fact that police whose sole purpose is to protect the citiznes and uphold the law is breaking the law itself. 

sounds perfectly normal, what are those protesters thinking


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## Naya (Feb 19, 2014)

Following an order is breaking the law? That's one of a statement to be discussed.


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## olaf (Feb 19, 2014)

I hate to Godwin Law you, but guess who else said that they were just folling orders, german soldiers during ww2 when they were exterminating jews

your whole "just following orders" argument isn't that strong as you might think

I agree that things are complicated in ukraine, but you're simplyfing them too much


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## Naya (Feb 19, 2014)

The one who simplifies is the one who says, that there are two sides here: against the president and for the president. 
At the very moment military structures in Ukraine are the only ones to keep some kind of order sanity. All the other sides (and there are several of them, but I doubt there is a point in naming them - does anyone here would really recall hearing or reading those names before?) have no control or system to fight for.
And the police is on their duty. While banderlogs... well, talk about their leaders. This i no leader who does not value lives of his followers. Guess who didn't value those lives? Right, the ones you called put first. Guess who said, they are on duty and have orders? The soldiers who protected their countries during any of the wars. Surprised or not? Any words can be said by anyone. The person matters, not the words.


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## walkerandarazu (Feb 19, 2014)

Nanatsurugi said:


> The one who simplifies is the one who says, that there are two sides here: against the president and for the president.
> At the very moment military structures in Ukraine are the only ones to keep some kind of order sanity. All the other sides (and there are several of them, but I doubt there is a point in naming them - does anyone here would really recall hearing or reading those names before?) have no control or system to fight for.
> And the police is on their duty. While banderlogs... well, talk about their leaders. This i no leader who does not value lives of his followers. Guess who didn't value those lives? Right, the ones you called put first. Guess who said, they are on duty and have orders? The soldiers who protected their countries during any of the wars. Surprised or not? Any words can be said by anyone. The person matters, not the words.


Yanukovich only puts Russians in the police force, there are no Ukrainians in Riot Police or Berkut as it's known. These people are fighting for their freedom not some plushy made up ideas like in Riots of London (the one that started when one guy got shot in Tottenham) which escalated into mindless looting. No one is looting in Ukraine, people bring food and water to support protesters. Red Cross is tending people to get them ready for fighting. By your sayings people like Che Guevara, Ghandi and John Lilburne are the scum and the order followers are the heroes. Last week some firefighters in USA refused to go to *other side of the street* to extinguish a flaming building. There was a girl begging them to help, her father was inside the flaming house. They refused. Why? They said they're fallowing orders of their main boss who ordered them to stay put because by protocol everyone needs to call them. That's what fallowing orders is. Generals were killed by own solders, because they thought that they can't follow their stupid orders.


----------



## Naya (Feb 19, 2014)

Russians in Berkut. Russians everywhere, r-r-right. Sounds like an old American movie to me.
What you said... this is just far beyond the point of being well-informed. It's easy to shit up "Go revolution!" not being in Ukraine. Will the Europe be so kind to fuck off, please?


----------



## SLB (Feb 19, 2014)

Zaru said:


> Sheeeeiiiiit



Damn.  

Those pictures of them wearing helmets fashioned out of pots and pans were a little tough to look at 

Opposition leaders seemed even more grim from the few interviews I saw this morning.


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 19, 2014)

av said:


> Protesters aren't behaving any better than Berkut is. At least Berkut isn't burning the fucking city down. Also, protesters are beating the Berkut they catch half to death. This is apparent from the videos - not any sort of indirect reporting.



Protesters are just burning barricades to prevent Berkut from advancing into Maidan and throwing Molotov into Berkut itself, no one from them is burning any buildings. Berkut on other side set 6th level and first level of Prof. Soyuz building on fire which protesters were using as a refugees and had established hospital there. It burned down completely, some people became trapped inside and now bodies of unrecognisable people are being found in there. First aid moved to churches since it would be safer. Also if Government wants to protect things and stuff, why there's no fire engines around?
Berkut beating people to death, what's your point? Also there's 'Titushki', people who killed two people yesterday, one of whom was a journalist from 'vesti' who was dragged from taxi and shot. They're from provinces and try to pass as protesters while supporting goverment and doing berkuts dirty jobs.



Nanatsurugi said:


> Russians in Berkut. Russians everywhere, r-r-right. Sounds like an old American movie to me.
> What you said... this is just far beyond the point of being well-informed.



It's called fallowing things from beginning. Why are Russian channels in Ukraine are working fine, while Ukrainian TV channels are being shut down? There's 9 million Russians in Ukraine and god knows how many Mankurts (people who are talking in Russians instead of Ukrainian, but call themselves Ukrainians). People who naturally would like to be associated with Russia are the ones from the East of Ukraine. That's where they're bringing Berkut fighters for Kiev from. No one is sending any Berkut from west of the country, they would fallow their orders anyway and wouldn't be as trustworthy as the ones from east. West Ukrainian cities are attacking their admin centres, milicia buildings and prokuraturas. Berkut isn't doing anything there.

In other news, Yaceniuk, one of the leaders opposing Yanukovich, have stated that he doesn't want himself to be involved with bloody riots and doesn't support violence. Another wuss. That means that there are literary no one courageous enough to announce that they will lead people themselves. Everyone on top is too scared to get 15 years in prison for mass uprising.
Also Yanukovich changed one of Army's main heads.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Feb 19, 2014)

Smells like a violent crackdown is incoming.


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## walkerandarazu (Feb 19, 2014)

Some Ukrainian Olympians in Sochi have withdrawn from competition in protest against Ukrainian Government.
Also Dynamo Kiev vs Valencia will be played tommorow in Cyprus instead of Kiev due to security concerns. Dnypro - Tottenham will go as planned.

P.S. Ukrainian newspaper 'Vesti' have put a bounty of 500,000 gryvnias ($56,000) for info about yesterdays killing of their journalist.

P.P.S. Klitschko's said that Yanukovich promised that he won't send Berkut to storm Maidan tonight.


----------



## Megaharrison (Feb 19, 2014)

Lviv has declared independence from the Yanu government. This won't end well. The East-West ethnic/social divide in Ukraine has always been the source of much conflict in its history. From WW1 to the West Ukraine's People's Republic to the Polish-Ukrainian War to Stalin to WWII.

In any regard between Venezuela, Ukraine, and Syria these days it isn't fun to be a pro-Putin authoritarian leader.


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 19, 2014)

All trains from Lviv (Lvov) to Kiev are cancelled due to 'melted' track. I guess Government is afraid of influx of people from west.

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=VKp67SrSLlM[/YOUTUBE] View of Maidan today by a drone.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJjD-TbCIYo&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/YOUTUBE] Armoured vehicle destruction, driver was saved.


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## Naya (Feb 20, 2014)

walkerandarazu said:


> Protesters are just burning barricades to prevent Berkut from advancing into Maidan and throwing Molotov into Berkut itself, no one from them is burning any buildings.


Yes. And this is the most peaceful protest ever. I wish their kids where suffocating from smoke. But no. Their newly born scum lives in another cities. 
The half of Ukraine doesn't have what to live for, this shit on the main freaking plaza have money to burn anything. Right, they are peaceful and nobody pays them.




> It's called fallowing things from beginning. Why are Russian channels in Ukraine are working fine, while Ukrainian TV channels are being shut down? There's 9 million Russians in Ukraine and god knows how many Mankurts (people who are talking in Russians instead of Ukrainian, but call themselves Ukrainians)


What can you, babe from abroad, now? You sound like it was in movies: Russians went in space, Russians sent a spy, Russians gave a nuclear shot.
Just fuck off from the kids from army and from the police and Berkut, who are the last people here to stay say and to keep order. The shit from maydan started it first. If my friend's face would have gotten burnt down by Molotov water, I'd use real weapon for sure. Most of army and Berkut don't even have one.
Don't follow rotten european media.



> West Ukrainian cities are attacking their admin centres, milicia buildings and prokuraturas. [/QUOTE
> West of Ukraine is the most dark, uneducated, religiously perverted, lazy, unbehaved part of Ukraine. Aint is awesome such people being the closest to Europe? Seems like something to think over.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Naya (Feb 20, 2014)

av said:


> Evil titushki are all paid. None of the protesters are though, right? Protesters aren't tearing streets apart and setting barricades on fire which smoke up all surrounding apartments, right? Cops aren't being killed, right?



Geez, how can you even watch those videos.
I can't bring myself to watch that. I just can't understand how would a mother, a wife, a sister, a daughter feel, whose father was... I mean their salary - it's awful, you know. Doctors and police here - they are said to be respected, but in fact they are the most poor and the most unprotected here. Not only due to the system, but due to the bribery in their direct command. This is a vicious circle.
And the mothers of protesters... they are bad mothers as they raised their children like that.

Btw. protesters are paid.  Not all them, just the majority. They also come to Kyiv, cause they don't have to work there, but can get food and clothes for free. The minority are romantic idiots, of course, they do shit cause their hearts tell them to.
Nobody of them know what military oath is. Seriously. They have nothing to be afraid and ashamed of.


----------



## Mael (Feb 20, 2014)

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/new-normal-ordinary-men-women-take-arms-kiev-n34156

Jesus Christ, it's like Stalingrad meets Metro 2033 meets S.T.A.L.K.E.R.


----------



## Utopia Realm (Feb 20, 2014)

Well, I'm sure shit isn't gonna completely fly off the road right...?


----------



## Overwatch (Feb 20, 2014)

> *Truce crumbles amid gunfire in Ukraine, at least 20 dead*
> 
> Kiev, Ukraine (CNN) -- A shaky truce crumbled Thursday as gunfire erupted at Independence Square, the center of anti-government protests and an increasingly violent crisis that has left at least 48 people dead and hundreds injured in recent days.
> 
> ...


----------



## gershwin (Feb 20, 2014)

Great, bankomats are not working, stores are already emty in my area  -even though i live far from Maidan. Damn, people realy started to panic  Just saw a group of berkut passing by huh.


----------



## Naya (Feb 20, 2014)

^ have my condolence. While ones are suffering, the others are trying to earn more money. That is so usual here, no real unity ever.


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## walkerandarazu (Feb 20, 2014)

av said:


> Evil titushki are all paid. None of the protesters are though, right? Protesters aren't tearing streets apart and setting barricades on fire which smoke up all surrounding apartments, right? Cops aren't being killed, right?
> 
> 
> edit: Finding zero legitimate sources on Berkut setting the building on fire. The claim was made by an opposition leader on his facebook page...very reliable. Most other news sources state that the protesters did not let fire trucks approach the building (and them burning two firetrucks is a fact). This isn't hard to believe considering they stone Berkut trying to approach with fire hose.



No one was putting out fires on the evening night on 18 February, all those videos during the day. Here's a video where people are talking how Berkut set the prof Soyuz building on fire and how everyone was trapped. Why would protesters try to burn their own base with supplies and a place where medical volunteers were tending them.



Today 25 people died already, heres berkut using guns:

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=T6IbEIBhb8o&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DT6IbEIBhb8o[/YOUTUBE]

Here's a band of protesters are being shot to death:



Do you see them shooting first? Do you see any guns from protesters at all in there? There you go nananatsurugi. 

And hell where did I even said a word about 'peacefulness'? Berkut is the one always starting. Everyone was trying to talk for 3-4 month now, it didn't work.



> West of Ukraine is the most dark, uneducated, religiously perverted, lazy, unbehaved part of Ukraine. Aint is awesome such people being the closest to Europe? Seems like something to think over.



Now you just try to make it personal now. Lviv is one of the most beautiful cities in whole Europe. And people there are more behaved and diligent than you ever going to be. Thanks god that people like you are so far from Europe. Probably.

I agree about Yacenyuk though, but no one is being paid. Jeez, they would run away the second someone would get killed.Passionate people they're, not some paid bastards. A man with a *Wheelchair* is helping to prepare pavement bricks even, how could someone like that could be bought. Now protesters in Belarus couple of years ago were bought. They stood for one day, police came for them - they just ran away or got caught. That's what people bought by money do. If you fight for something else than money, it will take you to unknown limit. 


There was a titushka found shooting at Berkut, they could him and found a МВД pass, meaning he was a worker for monastery of Ukrainian internal Affairs.

Police and Berkut  forces of Lutsk, Zakorpatye and Ternopyl moved sides and said that they are supporting the people of Ukraine and asked Yanukovich to resign.


Anyway, asin your sign shouldn't you be on 'romantic' and 'stupid' (as stated by you) side as well?


----------



## Nemesis (Feb 20, 2014)

I just wonder what should Yanu have done.  The moment the protestors got violent the police had the right to crackdown.  This isn't some Syrian case where it was peaceful protestors being shot at.  This is rioting pure and simple.

There were days of protesting when nothing happened.  I support peaceful protests as much as the next guy but there are times where you have to at least allow people the right to go to work whether public or run by the government without any kind of trouble which includes having to take alternative routes.

If the protestors did fire first them I am sorry to the peaceful ones but your side is to blame for the violence.  The police/army are not going to be shot at while hiding behind shields then hoping to catch the few perps.  They will fire back because their lives are on the fucking line.

If it was the army/police that fired first then yes, crack down on those responsible and put them behind bars.


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## Edward Newgate (Feb 20, 2014)

So... I didn't follow the news. Why does this shit happen in Ukrain exactly?


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## scaramanga (Feb 20, 2014)

> Do you see them shooting first? Do you see any guns from protesters at all in there? There you go nananatsurugi


 Yes


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## Kagekatsu (Feb 20, 2014)

Edward Newgate said:


> So... I didn't follow the news. Why does this shit happen in Ukrain exactly?



Western Ukraine is pro-EU, eastern Ukraine is pro-Russia. One half wants the Ukraine to stay far away from the Moscow sphere as possible, the other favors close ties.


----------



## Edward Newgate (Feb 20, 2014)

Kagekatsu said:


> Western Ukraine is pro-EU, eastern Ukraine is pro-Russia. One half wants the Ukraine to stay far away from the Moscow sphere as possible, the other favors close ties.


How exactly did the riots begin? Why does each side insist so much on their perspective stances?


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## Megaharrison (Feb 20, 2014)

Protesters have seized 100mm T-12 anti-tank guns



I'd be wtf but they clearly don't have any shells.


----------



## Overwatch (Feb 20, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> Protesters have seized 100mm T-12 anti-tank guns
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be wtf but they clearly don't have any shells.



Yet...

This will probably get a lot worse in the next few days.


----------



## gershwin (Feb 20, 2014)

Nemesis said:


> I just wonder what should Yanu have done.  The moment the protestors got violent the police had the right to crackdown.  This isn't some Syrian case where it was peaceful protestors being shot at.  This is rioting pure and simple.


The whole thing started the night when police violently dispersed peaceful protesters, consisted of students monstly, as well as civilians who just happened to pass by. People who didnt even put up any resistance were beaten senseless with batons and feet. Women included. If that didnt happen protests would cease in some time as happened numerous times before. Police certainly didnt have any right to do that. So talking anout who provoked violence. I believe same people can easily shoot an unarmed and not just *fire back*.


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## Sunuvmann (Feb 20, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> Protesters have seized 100mm T-12 anti-tank guns
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be wtf but they clearly don't have any shells.


Hahahhaa holy shit


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 20, 2014)

Those anti tank cannons are in Lviv, at least the twitter messages says so, so probably....
It's hard to say where ever any guns where actually stolen, could be just a hyperbolised story.
Seems like snipers operating around Kiev.
The one in Hmilnicki possibly some sniper as well, god knows if he just wanted to agitate protestors or just some stupid guy who just shot one shot and ran away.
Lots of people buying food like pasta and buckwheat to store up. 
One medical volunteer got shot, though clearly she had the uniform to show that she's not involved. She's recovering now in hospital.

Yanukovich could stop this on a whim, just say that he's resigning and it would be the end. But I guess olygarhs like Akhmatov are trying their best to put pressure on him and ask him to stay to the end.

Dnypro - Tottenham football game had 1 silence minute. Lots of fans didn't came though. Official Dnypro fans announced that they wouldn't come in protest to violence in Kiev.

Here's also a map of Ukraine showing who's living where:



Remember that these are majorities, that doesn't mean that there's any Ukrainians in Doneck and so on. Peninsula of Krim (the bottom part) is autonomous republic, kinda like Scotland or Catalonia, it suppose to be nation of Tatars (stayed there since 13-15 century after fighting for Mongolians against Lithuanians) but lots of Russians resign there nowadays as well.
I wonder how exactly did Bulgarians got to South of Ukraine.

P.S. Ahmetovs plane flew to London from Donetsk, though unknown if he was on board. The guy own apartment on One Hyde Park - most expensive apartment in whole Europe. There was some protests as well in front of it last month, I think.


----------



## Overwatch (Feb 20, 2014)

Kiev-before and after:





walkerandarazu said:


> I wonder how exactly did Bulgarians got to South of Ukraine.



A lot of folks fled there during the late 18th/early 19th century, especially around the Russo-Turkish wars between 1806 and 1829. Many of them were supporting Russian troops in exchange for safe passage into the empire.


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## Nemesis (Feb 20, 2014)

walkerandarazu said:


> Yanukovich could stop this on a whim, just say that he's resigning and it would be the end. But I guess olygarhs like Akhmatov are trying their best to put pressure on him and ask him to stay to the end.



But it won't end.  He was democratically elected and those yellow/brown areas will be in riots if he did.  This all comes down to the fact Ukraine can not end up being pro one and anti the other at the same time.  People in Western Ukraine need to realise that Russia is there and isn't going away.  It's a huge country that by the nature of countries will have influence over you.  While Eastern Ukraine need to realise that the EU will also have heavy influence as well and that being close to the EU doesn't mean you are going to alienate yourselves from Russia.  You can work with both in good faith and standing.

It's either that or Ukraine needs to split into two countries.  One side being the pro russian side the other with the pro EU side.  This protesting and rioting is just going to be a vicious cycle cause both sides are too entrenched.


----------



## Juda (Feb 20, 2014)

_I hate Russia with a passion(Though I have no right to but due to my countries history regarding Russia justifies my hate) I love the Ukrainian people. The USSR that time were ruthless towards the Ukraine, they bullied them and had no sense of care what happens to those people. I hope the Resistance just gives Putin the message that no means NO. They should leave the Ukraine alone and leave them alone in peace. 

They were so close to signing a deal with the Germans and Union. It just makes me so angry that these innocent people have to die because of a selfish prick of a leader, putin. _


----------



## KidTony (Feb 20, 2014)

Fascinating democracy now interview with professor Stephen F. Cohen. He makes some controversial, but (imo) devastating points about the situation in kiev, and about U.S and EU interests in the affair. Thoughts?

edit: for some reason the video starts halfway through (for me), so just wind it back to beginning so you see the whole interview if it happens for you. 

[YOUTUBE]4om0HidMPSM[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Alwaysmind (Feb 20, 2014)

Things are really getting out of hands now. Specially that Lviv is now claiming independence.


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## Megaharrison (Feb 20, 2014)

KidTony said:


> Fascinating democracy now interview with professor Stephen F. Cohen. He makes some controversial, but (imo) devastating points about the situation in kiev, and about U.S and EU interests in the affair. Thoughts?
> 
> edit: for some reason the video starts halfway through (for me), so just wind it back to beginning so you see the whole interview if it happens for you.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]4om0HidMPSM[/YOUTUBE]



Democracy Now siding with authoritarian thugs again. Moved on from Chavez, Putin, and Assad. What a surprise.


----------



## KidTony (Feb 20, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> Democracy Now siding with authoritarian thugs again. Moved on from Chavez, Putin, and Assad. What a surprise.



You are misrepresenting a guest of a program doing an interview's opinions as that program's bias.


----------



## Overwatch (Feb 20, 2014)

KidTony said:


> Fascinating democracy now interview with professor Stephen F. Cohen. He makes some controversial, but (imo) devastating points about the situation in kiev, and about U.S and EU interests in the affair. Thoughts?
> 
> edit: for some reason the video starts halfway through (for me), so just wind it back to beginning so you see the whole interview if it happens for you.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]4om0HidMPSM[/YOUTUBE]



He makes some excellent points. Thus far, the West's handling of the situation has been less than stellar and it's about time more people acknowledged it. The amount of rabid pro-EU asshats around me is growing by the minute and it's really starting to get on my plums, especially when they start talking about how we ought to set our own capital on fire. 

The repercussions of this mess will be felt for years to come.


----------



## Thor (Feb 21, 2014)

And the left-wing liberal morons ask why we need an AR-15 with a 30-round magazine............


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 21, 2014)

In this kind of conflict, I don't know what to think because I don't trust the informations coming from mainstream media.


----------



## dr_shadow (Feb 21, 2014)

*Ukraine peace deal signed*



> *(Reuters) - Ukraine's opposition leaders signed an EU-mediated peace deal with President Viktor Yanukovich on Friday, aiming to resolve a political crisis in which scores have been killed and opening the way for an early presidential election this year.*
> 
> Under pressure to quit from mass demonstrations in Kiev, Russian-backed Yanukovich made a series of concessions to pro-European opponents, including a national unity government and constitutional change to reduce his powers, as well as bringing forward the poll.
> 
> ...



http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/21/us-ukraine-idUSBREA1G0OU20140221


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## olaf (Feb 21, 2014)

that treaty is good start. now let's hope that somebody won't fuck this up too much, cause I'm afraid that when they'll start killing again the body toll will be much higher


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## walkerandarazu (Feb 21, 2014)

I don't think Yanu should be signing treaties with the Klitchko, Yacenyuk and Tiagniboh. Some People just booing them when they came to annouce what they signed, Klitchko couldn't finish his speach today. Noone is trusting them either, for all I understand these guys just want to get a hold of goverment and just start leeching money for themselves. Thats about the same thats happening now anyway. They just soaping everyones eyes.

Yesterdays protestors near Hyde Park 1 (Ahmetovs apppartment) in Westminster:


----------



## Jon Snow (Feb 21, 2014)

has this even been posted? (warning: it's real)


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## Pliskin (Feb 21, 2014)

walkerandarazu said:


> I don't think Yanu should be signing treaties with the Klitchko, Yacenyuk and Tiagniboh. Some People just booing them when they came to annouce what they signed, Klitchko couldn't finish his speach today. Noone is trusting them either, for all I understand these guys just want to get a hold of goverment and just start leeching money for themselves. Thats about the same thats happening now anyway. They just soaping everyones eyes.
> 
> Yesterdays protestors near Hyde Park 1 (Ahmetovs apppartment) in Westminster:



The alternative is a bloodbath and the inevitable schism of the country. The latter part might not even be bad, it is getting more and more clear that the Ukraine is not one country, but two divided entities struggling to keep unity.


----------



## Nemesis (Feb 21, 2014)

Ukraine as a country I don't think can hold if the two sides can't see eye to eye. Lviv as a city has always been westward looking.  It was never part of the Russian Empire (It was in the Austrian) and upto WW2 it was actually in Poland.  

Quite a lot of the problems we see in Ukraine today comes from the USSR under Stalin annexing parts of Poland and adding them to Ukraine and Belarus.  While at the same time the Ukrainian leaders of Khrushchev and Brezhnev giving the Ukrainian SSR land at the expense of Russian SSR.  It's put in this time bomb where the west and east of Ukraine can not see eye to eye cause they have different goals and backgrounds.


----------



## olaf (Feb 22, 2014)

walkerandarazu said:


> I don't think Yanu should be signing treaties with the Klitchko, Yacenyuk and Tiagniboh. Some People just booing them when they came to annouce what they signed, Klitchko couldn't finish his speach today. Noone is trusting them either, for all I understand these guys just want to get a hold of goverment and just start leeching money for themselves. Thats about the same thats happening now anyway. They just soaping everyones eyes.


are you really surprised? those people literaly fought with the enemy, some of them died, others saw it

it's not easy for them to accpet a treaty that isn't 150% of what they want

and I can't imagine yanukovitch agreeing on anything that doesn't guarentee him safety somehow

none of those parties is strong enough to disregard compromise, if they do bloodbath will be inevitable


----------



## olaf (Feb 22, 2014)

oh shit

yanukovich is god knows where (his ministers and bigger part of his party also can't be found in kiev)

I just hope that protesters won't get berserker


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 22, 2014)

Klitchko is changing his mind every single second. First he tries to tell everyone that that's the best they can get now and Yanukovich won't step down and after protesters take control of government party buildings and asks for Yanu to resign, he just goes and asks the same. He's not even using all his 3 brain cells to think everything over before saying something. And man apologising for that handshake is plain stupidity. I've lost all respect for him.

Yanik seemed went to Harkiv, but it's still shaky on his whereabouts.
People resigning from his party are like rats running from sinking ship.
There's some notion of possibility to release Timoshenko. I just hope she doesn't try to become president or prime minister again. She's worse than Yanukovich.
Also, I don't think there's any possibility that the east part of Ukraine would riot. Maybe protest a little bit, but riot? Nah. If that would happen then it would be straight civil war, but can't see that happening.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Feb 22, 2014)

Vive le revolucion!



> Reuters Top NewsVerified account ‏@Reuters
> 
> Ukraine parliament votes to dismiss president, sets election for May 25 #breaking


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 22, 2014)

Breaking news, Parliament decides by voting majority to relieve Yanukovich from Presidential post. Since they took the 2004 constitution back in action the other day, meaning they (parliament) have more rights than President and hence they can relieve him.

P.S. Got beaten to it by seconds


----------



## TasteTheDifference (Feb 22, 2014)

Glad that yulia Tymoshenko has been freed


----------



## Sunuvmann (Feb 22, 2014)

Hopefully she can be Mandelaesque.


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 22, 2014)

Sunuvmann said:


> Hopefully she can be Mandelaesque.



No way. She just tricked people into believing her back then when she was elected, but all she did just stole money from country. Mandela is up in heavens compared to her. 
Though she's probably more intelligent and cunning than any of opposition.


----------



## Nemesis (Feb 22, 2014)

So how long before the eastern 50% of Ukraine march on Kiev and demand Yanukovich to be put back in power.  Plus if she stole money from the country then she surely should be kept in jail because it is a crime.


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 22, 2014)

Nemesis said:


> So how long before the eastern 50% of Ukraine march on Kiev and demand Yanukovich to be put back in power.  Plus if she stole money from the country then she surely should be kept in jail because it is a crime.


She should since she signed that treaty with Putin for more expensive gas for Ukraine and got money for herself from the deal. People didn't forget that. But you could argue she was put in prison just as a political enemy eradication. Just read her speech, cunning as a vixen, she knows to how to refer unlike Klitchko.
And that 50% from east won't bother, trust me. There's more chance that people will continue going at it and cleanse the parliament for fresh start.

In other news Yanu tried to cross border to Russia, but he was denied. Apparently he went into hiding now. 



It's in Ukrainian, but there's pictures and video showing Yaniks automobile collection which were found in his mansion garage. Some impressive old cars, but we all know that they were bought with wrong money. Authorities saying they're planning to sell 'em on auction. Public are free to enter to view Yanukovich house and his lifestyle.

P.S. Why the hell English read past tense is read, but you pronounce it differently? What a mess


----------



## dr_shadow (Feb 22, 2014)

walkerandarazu said:


> P.S. Why the hell English read past tense is read, but you pronounce it differently? What a mess



English supposedly has the most irrational spelling of all languages that use the Latin alphabet. It is very difficult to know how a spoken word should be spelled based only on the sound, or how a written word should be pronounced based only on the spelling.

Like how "though" is pronounced "dow". Logic, plz?

This is all because English has not undergone a comprehensive spelling reform in a long time to update the spelling to changes in spoken pronunciation. In Shakespere's time there was perhaps a pretty good fit between written and spoken English, but today the distance is huge. Even the man's name is now "Sheikspir".

Also loan words from other languages that use the Latin alphabet, like French, often keep the spelling they have in the source language even if the pronunciation is anglified. So you get "etiquette" pronounced as "eti-ket".

My former teacher once pointed to the irony that the languages possibly set to be the two most important in this century, English and Chinese, both have writing systems that are extremely difficult to learn.


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## olaf (Feb 22, 2014)

I don't understand why people love tymoshenko so much

she is charismatic and qt but when she was prime minister she fucked up big time, allowing yanukovych to win presidency. I just hope she doesn't fuck up current status quo, which is quite fragile. The way she called 'end of dictatorship' opposed to klichkos cry for being calm and not taking quick vengance is quite dangerous

(oh and right now it doesn't matter if she stole money or not, her conviction was clearly political so she should be let out of prison. convicting her later, in less politcal court is completely different matter)


----------



## Kagekatsu (Feb 22, 2014)

So it doesn't look like the army is interested in helping out Yanu it seems.


----------



## Megaharrison (Feb 22, 2014)

Ukrainian politics are the Arabs of Europe.


----------



## dr_shadow (Feb 22, 2014)

I'm interested how this Eurasian Union thing will turn out.

In the 90's and 00's Europe was divided between "current EU" and "future EU". It seemed just a matter of time before the union would absorb all countries except Russia. In the Yeltsin era some even toyed with the idea that Russia itself might _eventually_ join, although giant territory and population would pose unique challanges.

As we've entered the new decade though, Putin has said that he's gonna start his own EU. "With blackjack, and hookers!". So now Eastern Europe will have two super-national alliances to choose from.

I think Putin may have said at some point that in the far future we could merge the European Union and Eurasian Union into a single monolith streching from the Atlantic to the Pacific, Mongol style. But judging from Ukraine, Syria etc... it looks more like the two alliances would be initially antagonistic to each other and not very keen on marriage.


----------



## olaf (Feb 22, 2014)

listening to tymoshenko on majdan. she isn't as inflamatory as I was afraid, but still she stirs too much shit with her "neva forget neva forgive" shtick

and it doesn't matter if you like her or not, you have to give it to her, she is a great fucking speaker.


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 22, 2014)

She had to come with a wheelchair for everyone to be sorry for her(also some reports say she's wearing body armour), I'm sure she can stand just fine. The crowd is kinda halted, some shout supporting her, some just stay silent. It isn't as loud as when they were singing hymn as well.

Also check this toilet which was found in Yanukovich villa:



Looks like something from Gaddafi's isn't? 

Apparently apart from big mansion and cars he also had private gas station, zoo and farm.

P.S. Something is happening in Maidan in crowd, somebody was taken away by medical and then some guys were taken away like they were provoking something. One was asking and showing signs to Yulia as in how much money she has (she's the most wealthiest woman on Earth). In the end Yulia finished, but everyone was distracted so no one even cheered or clapped for her.


----------



## Almesiva Moonshadow (Feb 22, 2014)

walkerandarazu said:


> Also check this toilet which was found in Yanukovich villa:



*Talk 'bout shitting with style. *


----------



## olaf (Feb 22, 2014)

Almesiva Moonshadow said:


> *Talk 'bout shitting with style. *


style? maybe, but defnitely no class. How insecure one has to feel inside to get himself a golden shiting throne, insecure or deranged

thank god majdan didn't greet her to warm, because her "thank you for not agreeing to the treaty" made my eyes roll so hard "You mean that treaty that allowed parliment to set you free? or maybe some other one, bitch"


----------



## gershwin (Feb 22, 2014)

I also was watching Maidan Live translation - Tymoshenko, Luzenko - feels like a deja vu  2004 and 2014 - same fucking faces. 
And it realy hilarious what an unglorious ending both Viktors had. One was utter disappointment, the other is now hated by the whole country.


----------



## Nemesis (Feb 22, 2014)

Still seems like it is all the bastards, bitches and inepts using the people for their own political gain.  In the long run I don't see how this will be an improvement and just widen the divisions the country already has.


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2014)

*Applause Erupts As Ukrainian Opposition Leader Freed From Prison*



> A chief political rival of embattled Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych was freed Saturday from prison as the defiant leader struggled to hold on to power after protesters seized control of the presidential palace and the parliament voted to remove him from office.
> 
> Former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko waved to supporters from a car as she was driven out of the hospital in the northeastern city of Kharkiv, where she has been treated for a bad back while serving a seven-year sentence since 2011.
> 
> ...


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/uk...rainian-opposition-leader-freed-prison-n36226


----------



## scaramanga (Feb 23, 2014)

"Freedom fighters" killed Golden Eagles in Yanukovich residence. I guess, these birds deserved it - how dare they not support revolutionary?!


----------



## Overwatch (Feb 23, 2014)

Go Team DemokrasaY!


----------



## gershwin (Feb 23, 2014)

scaramanga said:


> "Freedom fighters" killed Golden Eagles in Yanukovich residence. I guess, these birds deserved it - how dare they not support revolutionary?!



I wonder whats the purpose? To frighten another wild birds?


----------



## scaramanga (Feb 23, 2014)

> I wonder whats the purpose? To frighten another wild birds?


 No. Golden Eagle - Беркут in Ukrainian . Ukrainian anti-riot police name is "Беркут".


----------



## gershwin (Feb 23, 2014)

No, I mean they weren`t nailed there for occultism purpose, right?


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## walkerandarazu (Feb 23, 2014)

The guy who became temporary president is a twat. Yesterday he was already saying that there's no reason to stay in Maidan and said that everyone should go home. I see him doing some 'favours' for himself in this period.

P.S. I'm sad about eagles. At least they could have killed only one. Takamura would have gotten the other one.


----------



## Megaharrison (Feb 23, 2014)

scaramanga said:


> "Freedom fighters" killed Golden Eagles in Yanukovich residence. I guess, these birds deserved it - how dare they not support revolutionary?!



These are scarecrows man. Morbid ones, but Eastern Europe gonna Eastern Europe.


----------



## Megaharrison (Feb 23, 2014)

Also


----------



## Arishem (Feb 23, 2014)

Forget about Yanukovych's place, Prosecutor General Pshonka's house is the real deal. Just look at this shit :


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 23, 2014)

Arishem said:


> Forget about Yanukovych's place, Prosecutor General Pshonka's house is the real deal. Just look at this shit :



Here the original from the first picture.It's from the movie "Asterix at the Olympic games".


----------



## olaf (Feb 24, 2014)

jesus christ those people are more pathetic than I ever imagined


----------



## Rain (Feb 24, 2014)

Good job retards, overthrow one moron and replace it with another. This is problem with many revolutions.

People died so this treacherous whore could be in power again? Someone should ask these protesters did they really live better during her time as Prime Minister.

Also, i just read there are Anti-protests in Crimea. I'm afraid this might escalate further.


----------



## olaf (Feb 24, 2014)

well shit rain, I watched her speech on majdan and somehow I missed the moment when they crowned her to be next regning bitch

could you point me to the right moment? or at least to the part when the really cheered for her (cause the polish guy from euro parliment got more cheers than her, which really surprised me)


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 24, 2014)

Rain said:


> Good job retards, overthrow one moron and replace it with another. This is problem with many revolutions.
> 
> People died so this treacherous whore could be in power again? Someone should ask these protesters did they really live better during her time as Prime Minister.
> 
> Also, i just read there are Anti-protests in Crimea. I'm afraid this might escalate further.



I doubt for some reason now that she will go and become a PM or President, smt tells me that she will think it over and just stand aside for now. She understands that people will remember what she did.
I feel bad for Yanik now, apparently he's being hunted now. He'll feel that he got betrayed by every one. He didn't broke the treaty, Klitchko did, he should have gone and made a deal with people not those makeshift leaders. Now probably he's going to end up like Sadam Hussain. Heck maybe he's dead already. Ahmetov could easily call his shots to hide his connections. Speaking of Klitchko, he just disappeared. Probably Some-one told him his chances are lower now that before. This isn't over yet, maidan is still there and hopefully guys at top will remember what happened already.

It feels disgraceful when I see ton of people with Russian flags in Crimea. Seriously, wtf?


----------



## Sferr (Feb 24, 2014)

Rain said:


> Good job retards, overthrow one moron and replace it with another. This is problem with many revolutions.
> 
> People died so this treacherous whore could be in power again? Someone should ask these protesters did they really live better during her time as Prime Minister.
> 
> Also, i just read there are Anti-protests in Crimea. I'm afraid this might escalate further.



Ukraine is a country full of morons. It's politics is just a one great circus and always has been. I mean, come on, there were huge fight in the actual parliament between politicians on almost yearly basis lol. These riots is just idiocy went to extreme and sadly cost lives. It's not just about Timoshenko, almost everyone from opposition were in actual power before Janukovich and almost everyone from them had been proven to be an idiot. 


walkerandarazu said:


> It feels disgraceful when I see ton of people with Russian flags in Crimea. Seriously, wtf?


Crimea was always pro-Russian and it's full of Russians. When anti-Russian forces gained power, it's obvious of what is happening in Crimea.

But seriously, one half of Ukraine hates another and these revolutions do nothing to reconcile them.  There are riots on almost every election against each other. Now they they just didn't wait for the next elections.


----------



## Nemesis (Feb 24, 2014)

walkerandarazu said:


> It feels disgraceful when I see ton of people with Russian flags in Crimea. Seriously, wtf?



Because everyone in Crimea is Russian.  From language to Ethnicity. The only reason the area is part of Ukraine is because of Khrushchev.  When he decided to redraw the Russian and Ukrainian SSR borders.  People of Crimea never really wanted to be part of Ukraine and always looked towards Moscow rather than Kiev.  Everything about what is happening in Ukraine today can be dated back to two points. WW2 Soviet annexations of eastern Poland and then the redrawing of the Russian/Ukrainian borders basically making Ukraine a country of two very different and distinct people who have two separate world views.


----------



## Hozukimaru (Feb 24, 2014)

Still not clear to me why Russia didn't keep east Ukraine back in '91.


----------



## Sferr (Feb 24, 2014)

Hozukimaru said:


> Still not clear to me why Russia didn't keep east Ukraine back in '91.



Because Russia was not in position to keep anything. Not just east Ukraine. There were also South Ossetia, Transnistria where there were even referendums about staying with Russia in 1991 etc. None stayed with Russia.


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 24, 2014)

There's still 300,000 Tatars in there, but I wasn't talking about people, just the flags. Let's say there would be a president in US which would help Hispanic people more than now. And then smt happens and people in San Diego or south Arizona come out and start waving Mexican flags, you'll think what's wrong with them, that's ain't their country.  
Anyway like in EU, there were countries or states with borders, so Russia couldn't just take smt. They took Kuban from Ukrainians anyway


----------



## Sferr (Feb 24, 2014)

walkerandarazu said:


> There's still 300,000 Tatars in there, but I wasn't talking about people, just the flags. Let's say there would be a president in US which would help Hispanic people more than now. And then smt happens and people in San Diego or south Arizona come out and start waving Mexican flags, you'll think what's wrong with them, that's ain't their country.


Well, they are hoping Russia would protect them and majority even wants Crimea to become Russian territory. They hate nationalist Ukrainians and don't feel as part of Ukraine. And they don't have any traditions of any independence also, so that's why they wave Russian and not Crimean flags. There are too few Tatars there to make any difference. 


walkerandarazu said:


> They took Kuban from Ukrainians anyway



Kuban was never part of Ukraine and I don't see how this map shows that they were.


----------



## Hozukimaru (Feb 24, 2014)

Southern States with Mexican borders aren't 50% mexicans and mexican speakers though.


----------



## Nemesis (Feb 24, 2014)

Hozukimaru said:


> Still not clear to me why Russia didn't keep east Ukraine back in '91.



Because the Soviet Union split up amongst the internal borders of the republics. Not along ethnic lines.  The break up of the Soviet Union was not everyone running away from big bad Russia.  It was the nations actually each pulling out of an entity they did not want to belong to.

Hell the leaders of the Ukrainian SSR, Russian SSR (good ol Yeltsin) and Belorussian SSR literally pulled the rug from under Gorbachev signing a treaty voiding the 1922 treaty.  Literally making him a president of a place that did not exist.

Basically it would be like if England got their own parliament and one day the head of the English and Scottish Parliaments decided to void the act of union.  Leaving the British PM as a PM without a country.


----------



## Sferr (Feb 24, 2014)

Funnily, Russia was not the last one to quit USSR. They actually proclaimed independence from USSR before Kazakhstan, lol. That really shows how much Russia cared about saving territory back then.


----------



## Chelydra (Feb 24, 2014)

Hopefully this help Ukraine becoming closer with the EU and weakening Russian influence. Assuming Russia does not meddle here and somehow cause the new pro western government to collapse.


----------



## scaramanga (Feb 25, 2014)

[YOUTUBE]uXTl3ZQeK5M[/YOUTUBE]
All hail new Ukraine!


----------



## horsdhaleine (Feb 26, 2014)

The braided woman is planning to go back in power, huh?



> It's one thing to be known, in the local parlance, as "a woman with balls"; it's entirely another to be called "Putin with a braid."


----------



## Sferr (Feb 26, 2014)

Interesting facts about Ukraine: the pro Russian East and South of Ukraine was given to Ukraine only after First World War by Lenin despite that region's opposition to it. The pro Russian Crimea was given to Ukraine only in 1954 by Khrushchev as a gift. And the most Ukrainian nationalistic region of West Ukraine had become part of Ukraine only before Second World War when Stalin took that region from Poland. It really brings a question if Ukrainians are even one nation and explains why West and South-East are so different. This "revolution" is not the first one and not the last one. But before people didn't die, now they do and I don't want to think what is going to happen during the inevitable next riots.


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 26, 2014)

There's been rumours around that Yanik is in Russia already, together with his two sons. His destination it seems is Indonesia where he already has some kind of base. No Saddam with this one it seems. 
But something feels of with whole situation, it's like it's only just the beginning.
 There's been also calls to arrest some of Maidan'ers.
P.S. There's lots of disputes who's land is who's and etc. If you follow the past, then Turkey shouldn't even be there, Florida should be Mexican and Ukraine should belong to Lithuania.


----------



## olaf (Feb 26, 2014)

So they picked the new (temp) government, they also put some of the prominent maidaners as heads of ministries. bold. Let's just hope that Jaceniouk won't be simply tymoshenkos puppet (since I've heard that he's capable of thinking on his own)

Now will be the really hard part, fixing the country. I hope that they'll do better than last time



walkerandarazu said:


> There's been rumours around that Yanik is in Russia already, together with his two sons. His destination it seems is Indonesia where he already has some kind of base. No Saddam with this one it seems.
> But something feels of with whole situation, it's like it's only just the beginning.
> There's been also calls to arrest some of Maidan'ers.


that's first I'm hearing about arresting some of Maidan'ers. any sources/specifics? 

and honstly I'm hearing so much different things about Yanukovich that I don't care about them, until I hear that he is caught or photographed somewhere


walkerandarazu said:


> P.S. There's lots of disputes who's land is who's and etc. If you follow the past, then Turkey shouldn't even be there, Florida should be Mexican and Ukraine should belong to Lithuania.


more like Ukraine should be Polish (Lithuania too)  

but thankfully nobody listens to those retards who look at the past through nostalgia glasses.


----------



## wibisana (Feb 26, 2014)

walkerandarazu said:


> There's been rumours around that Yanik is in Russia already, together with his two sons. His destination it seems is Indonesia where he already has some kind of base. No Saddam with this one it seems.
> But something feels of with whole situation, it's like it's only just the beginning.
> There's been also calls to arrest some of Maidan'ers.
> P.S. There's lots of disputes who's land is who's and etc. If you follow the past, then Turkey shouldn't even be there, Florida should be Mexican and Ukraine should belong to Lithuania.



you can buy islands in here.
I am not sure heard if he got one though
but while ago a corrupt-bribing politician reported have an island somewhere in sumatra

and you basically can hire Police/army person for $200-300 /month (2 years ago price)
they would bring gun/assault riffle 


but i really doubt they would really protect you with their life


----------



## Sferr (Feb 26, 2014)

av said:


> Despite all you said, sferr, this shit is fucking retarded. It's not like there irreconcilable cultural differences. This bullshit is helping no one. I understand getting read of Yanukovich, that's fine, but it needs to stop there. Btw, Yulichka was accused of misappropriating government funds, and most likely not falsely so.



The whole Ukraine politics are retarded for the entirety of Ukraine's existence. 'Euromaidan' is far from the last riot, it's just the biggest one. And not the last one too. What this 'Euromaidan' changed really? Those who are in power now are just those who were in power before Yanukovich and they are as corrupt as him. Almost everyone, not just Timoshenko. Yanukovich was taken out by West Ukrainians because, really, he wasn't _their_ president, he was chosen by South and West. If there was a president that was just as corrupt as Yanukovich, but was from their side, there wouldn't be any riots from their side. May be there would be from South, West and Crimea thought. 

This shit didn't end with getting rid of Yanukovich because the conflict changed to what it usually was - West vs South-East. 

Also, the Ukrainian politics at it finest - something that happens in Ukraine's main parliament like every year:




walkerandarazu said:


> P.S. There's lots of disputes who's land is who's and etc. If you follow the past, then Turkey shouldn't even be there, Florida should be Mexican and Ukraine should belong to Lithuania.



Well, I agree, but partly. People of Turkey don't want for Turkey to stop existing, Florida doesn't want to go to Mexico and Ukrainians don't want to belong to Poland. But South, East Ukrainians and Crimeans actually do want to be closer to Russia and they do feel much closer culturally to Russia than West Ukraine. And no, no, I am not saying that these territories should go back to Russia, that's stupid  . But people there just should not be expected by West Ukraine and by West overall to blindly accept everything West Ukraine does. And west Ukrainians love to do something anti-Russian like restrict Russian language in some way or make them love their national heroes that they consider as terrorists and criminals. No wonder there are conflicts between them.


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 26, 2014)

Ah, good old Mercenaries. Still looking for that Outer Heaven 
I heard that they want to arrest the most radical (that's what they're calling right sector) maidan'ers. It's as if they are too scared that these guys will be checking them, so they're thinking of a strategy to get them out of the way. It won't end as they wish though.
Russian nationalists are supporting Ukrainian Euromaidan, what a twist  Well on other hand it's not exactly surprising since that they always try to go against Putin.
Also first Ukrainian (or is it first book published in Ukraine? Or just first print in Ukraine?) Book - Apostle was found in Yanukovich villa:



Also there was a thief cought in maidan who was steeling mobiles and laptops. They wrote 'Thief' on his forehead, paraded him through Maidan and took him into police station. There was a video on Euronews, but can't find it on net, just a pic:

Reports of him being son of some Policeman. Another twist 
P.S. 14 century Lithuania would be sad . Back then they even tried taking whole Moscow for themselves


----------



## Jeefus (Feb 26, 2014)

This might have been said already, but I just saw a report that Putin has put some of this guys on alert.


----------



## baconbits (Feb 26, 2014)

Putin is being himself again, an international bully.  He has the foreign policy of a mobster.


----------



## Kagekatsu (Feb 26, 2014)

You guys really think Putin will call the West's bluff, or is it the other way around?


----------



## Jeefus (Feb 26, 2014)

I'm not worried about him, although the UN is weak, he won't do anything publicly such as send in soldiers.


----------



## dr_shadow (Feb 27, 2014)

> *(Reuters) - Ukraine's protest leaders named the ministers they want to form a new government following the overthrow of President Viktor Yanukovich, as an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert in a show of strength.*
> 
> President Vladimir Putin's order on Wednesday for soldiers to be ready for war games near Ukraine was the Kremlin's boldest gesture yet after days of sabre rattling since its ally Yanukovich was ousted at the weekend.
> 
> ...



http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/26/us-ukraine-idUSBREA1G0OU20140226


----------



## dr_shadow (Feb 27, 2014)

I feel so _Hungary_ when Russia readies troops. 

Maybe I should go for some Baltic food?


----------



## olaf (Feb 27, 2014)

oh and btw interfax says that some armed guys took control over crimeas government buildings (can't think of the proper translation for that) and prime minister of the crimea region is going to negotiate with them. Apparently they put out russian flag on the building

need to look for some sources to post here

article on guardian


----------



## scaramanga (Feb 27, 2014)

> Rival demonstrators backing the new authorities - mainly ethnic Tatars repressed under Soviet rule - rallied under a pale blue flag, shouting "Ukraine! Ukraine!"


Actually the shouted something else...
[YOUTUBE]HwJ60-2PK2k[/YOUTUBE]

Cant remember where I heared this before... Syria? Iraq? Afganistan?


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 27, 2014)

scaramanga said:


> Actually the shouted something else...
> [YOUTUBE]HwJ60-2PK2k[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Cant remember where I heared this before... Syria? Iraq? Afganistan?



Alan Akbar - God is great. They're Muslims, but they support Ukraine. They got there somewhere in 14 century, when Mongolia was trying to take over Europe, but couldn't beat Lithuanians in North and Turks/Persians in South.
Yanukovich is going to give a speech in Rostov tommorow. I thought Akhmatov would've killed him by now.

P.S. If you go to Baltic restaurant order 'cepelinai' and '?altibar?čiai'. 'Karbonadas', 'kukuliai' and 'balandeliai' are also good. And some '?akotis' or 'spurga' for desert.  

P.P.S. Hungary is Magyarstag so it's not hungry.


----------



## Nemesis (Feb 27, 2014)

baconbits said:


> Putin is being himself again, an international bully.  He has the foreign policy of a mobster.



And yet you would support such actions if it is in the US interest.  Or should the US get a clean check because US in your eyes.  Basically Ukraine should not exist and it might not even be a majority that supported the ousting of Yanokovich.

If an uprising happened in Mexico or Canada that was pretty much lead by a group of people that were saying "Fuck you." to the US you would be certain the US would be flexing their muscles militarily or financially.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 27, 2014)

Nemesis said:


> And yet you would support such actions if it is in the US interest.  Or should the US get a clean check because US in your eyes.  Basically Ukraine should not exist and it might not even be a majority that supported the ousting of Yanokovich.
> 
> If an uprising happened in Mexico or Canada that was pretty much lead by a group of people that were saying "Fuck you." to the US you would be certain the US would be flexing their muscles militarily or financially.


You're seriously pulling this card, Nemesis?


----------



## Jeefus (Feb 27, 2014)

Nemesis said:


> And yet you would support such actions if it is in the US interest.  Or should the US get a clean check because US in your eyes.  Basically Ukraine should not exist and it might not even be a majority that supported the ousting of Yanokovich.
> 
> If an uprising happened in Mexico or Canada that was pretty much lead by a group of people that were saying "Fuck you." to the US you would be certain the US would be flexing their muscles militarily or financially.



Well, it's a different situation.  Mexico and Canada were never forced satellite states of a larger union.  The Ukraine was the primary bread basket for the USSR.  If Russia could sweep in and take over areas again,  the Ukraine would easily be 1 or 2.  The other being anywhere with a warm-water port. 

There is a lot going on that can't be understood unless one takes a look at the historical roots of why the people don't want a pro-Russian government.


----------



## Ernie (Feb 28, 2014)

*Ukrain...*

How is the current situation in Kiev right now? Are their members from Ukrain here? If so, I have some major questions.


I was their a week ago for a couple of days and the shit I saw almost remembered me of the Balkan wars (when I saw innocent people shot down) when I was a little child. Mad respect for the 'rebels', tho.


----------



## Blitzomaru (Feb 28, 2014)

.....

Either you got your account jacked or you have selective amnesia.

EDIT: Since you dont understand... This isn't a convo area. This is a news area. If you want to create a thread, it should consist of a headline. From a news source. Not just asking a question about a country that you didn't even bother to spell right...

Also.... it's *there*, not *their*
there=place, noun
their=of a person, adjective


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Feb 28, 2014)

> *Ukraine crisis: 'Russians' occupy Crimea airports*
> 
> Ukraine has accused Russia of carrying out an armed invasion by sending naval forces to occupy Sevastopol airport in the Crimea region.
> 
> ...



This shit is bananas



walkerandarazu said:


> They got there somewhere in 14 century, when Mongolia was trying to take over Europe, but couldn't beat Lithuanians in North and Turks/Persians in South.



Actually the Mongols beat the shit out of all of them and ruled Russia until the mid 1500s


----------



## olaf (Feb 28, 2014)

there is just for that. and usualy it's on the first page of Cafe (just like it was today) so good job at being lazy


----------



## olaf (Feb 28, 2014)

yeah, mighty russians were under mongol boot for some time. 

also, that krimean shit is so like from 80's movie, even the name (in slavic languages the name is much harder: Krym in polish for example, and english equivalent sounds like one of those fake names for soviet states that you hear in movies)

Russians don't really want that part of land, they have more use of it when it's part of Ukraine. I guess/hope it will probably end like those 'spontaneous' pro government protests in Kiev


----------



## Ernie (Feb 28, 2014)

Olaf, don't be girly.


----------



## olaf (Feb 28, 2014)

if by 'girly' you mean 'pointing something embarassing your did' then I have no problem with being just like that


----------



## Hand Banana (Feb 28, 2014)

Posting something you did.


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 28, 2014)

The Pink Ninja said:


> This shit is bananas
> 
> 
> 
> Actually the Mongols beat the shit out of all of them and ruled Russia until the mid 1500s



Nah, there was quite a few battles, but Lithuania managed to defend themselves in 1238 and 1249, later they just paid tribute, but beat Golden Horde in 1363 near Blue Waters and gained Kiev. Then Lithuanians tried to get Moscow 3 times, but didn't managed. So Mongolians, only had East Europe, but could get beyond that.


Oh and somebody said that story about Russians in Krym airport is fake, or that they went back already. Some shady guards without any country *badges* are guarding the airport though now. Mercenaries? 

Oh there was a conference with Yanukovich (journalists asking questions). Lots of questions asked, but mainly:

He still says he's the prez and he didn't broke treaty, the other side broke it.
He doesn't acknowledges any of new laws, since he didn't signed them.
Calls Timoshenko an unlawfully bandit out in freedom (kinda true)
Didn't met Putin yet
Spent only 3 million of that Villa of his (apparently it's only 600square metres, isn't a lot :/). He got it from Kuchma former president of Ukraine, though it was in bad state.
He doesn't know about Russian troops in Ukraine and calls it bluff. He said that specnaz rumours were always there.
*Says that he didn't give order to shoot people* (Meaning that probably Zaharchenko gave those orders)
Says that he apologises to Berkut,  even though he did it in the past already
Calls new parlament a bunch of new robbers which don't really make a huge difference (it's true that most of those guys aren't there to help people) and that those people tricked people of Ukraine
Says he will only come back to Ukraine if there will be insurances and will stay in Rostov at his friend for the moment
Says that Krym should not go to Russia, but should not acknowledge new government as well
Says he won't be part of future government anymore, since he was betrayed
Says he's surprised that Putin didn't said nothing as of yet about Ukraine
Smiles when he's asked about ponies, piggies and little boars at his compound - says he will get them back  
Also some journalist woman was asking how he plans to come back and get elected, even though he said that he won't. Yanukovich ignores her 

So no Indonesia, huh?


P.S. Maidan is still there waiting, if someone is wondering.


----------



## olaf (Feb 28, 2014)

walkerandarazu said:


> Oh and somebody said that story about Russians in Krym airport is fake, or that they went back already. Some shady guards without any country *badges* are guarding the airport though now. Mercenaries?


The main problem with crimean situation is that nobody gives 100% confirmed info. the news about bandits/rus soldiers/mercenaries taking/guarding airport was changed 3 times todays as far as I can tell (it's russians; it's not russians; etc...)

but the most confirmed info I've heard was about those people claiming to be some group to protect russian speaking citizens of crimea taking control of the parliment of crimea. (and to everyones surprise parliment decided to have referendum about spliting from ukraine and joining russia ) 



walkerandarazu said:


> Oh there was a conference with Yanukovich (journalists asking questions). Lots of questions asked, but mainly:
> 
> [WHINE WHINE. NOT MY FAULT]
> 
> ...


the fact that he spoke about need of russian intervention is quite treasonus. plus he made a fool of himself when he started talking about not meeting putin yet and generaly not knowing what russians will do or plan to do


----------



## Arishem (Feb 28, 2014)

Shit has hit the fan.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TVyPiHVZ1A[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQgWdoeZP8U[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYFh2lABg48[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Hozukimaru (Feb 28, 2014)

Have you guys seen this? *Wow*!



> *?Shut the f**k up, b*tch!? Notorious far-right Ukraine leader attacks prosecutor (VIDEO)*
> 
> [YOUTUBE]q8JC-ZjqFb4[/YOUTUBE]





...


----------



## olaf (Feb 28, 2014)

can't watch those vids due to some yt error. what did I miss?


----------



## Hozukimaru (Feb 28, 2014)

Russian helis flying all over Crimea and Russian troops entering a building, I think.


----------



## olaf (Feb 28, 2014)

the movement of russian troops was reported in couple contradicting reports (they are going from base to base/they are doing stuff planned months ago/it's not them/each soldier has big fuck you from putin to UE) so that's that

as long as russians will keep denying and crimean authorities won't make a fuss I'm not sure what's really going on there (besides the fact that russians are trying to provoke unrest among ukraininas- divide and conquer)


----------



## Hozukimaru (Feb 28, 2014)

Crimean authorities are Russian for the most part so it shouldn't be a surprise that they aren't making a fuss about it.



> *Russia admits that it has moved troops in Ukraine*
> Russia has finally confirmed that it has moved troops into Ukraine's restive Crimea region, after speculation about Moscow's involvement
> 
> Russian troops have moved into Crimea in what Moscow is calling a mission to “protect Black Sea Fleet’s positions” but which the Ukrainian government has denounced as an “armed intervention.”
> ...


----------



## scaramanga (Feb 28, 2014)

Arishem said:


> Shit has hit the fan.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]LYFh2lABg48[/YOUTUBE]


Better version
[YOUTUBE]ZUthbNCA1nc[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Megaharrison (Feb 28, 2014)

Russians doing the same thing they did in Afghanistan, i.e. armed men in military gear with no insignia/ID seizing key facilities before a major intervention. I think Putin has decided an intervention so far, but still hasn't fully committed to an invasion and wants to see how these initial moves play out.

Anyway I eagerly await Obama playing golf.


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 28, 2014)

Krym Tatars won't be happy though. Are those 'Apaches' helicopters there? The whole situation reminds me of my days in Vietnam. I hope it ends the same way 

No-one wants to loose lands though, even Russia wants to keep Chechnya, even though it's pretty messed up. Hope no WW3 starts for this... Next time Hungary will want zakarpatye where lots of Hungarians reside and Romania will want Chernivci.

That guy 'leader' looks just some criminal threatning someone to pay protection or get a broken leg. What a twat, thinks he can use maidan name when ever he wants and threaten someone to take them there if someone doesn't cooperates. I don't know what did other guy did, but that's some bad behavour which you don't use on someone repeatedly. The other guy has no balls or spine as well though.

P.S. In Ice hockey between CSKA and Dynamo (both Moscow teams) people where shouting 'Glory for Ukraine'. Same in Tottenham - Dnypro (football) where there lots of banners such as 'Heroes never dies' in London, yesterday.


----------



## Hozukimaru (Feb 28, 2014)

Crimean Tatars won't be happy indeed. To my knowledge they are euromaidan pro (or at least, anti-russian in a way). The helis are Mi-8s and Mi-24s, why would Russians have apaches?


----------



## olaf (Feb 28, 2014)

the fact that Right Sector is extreme was well know (or at least should be, I've read reports on it some time ago) and since they didn't do anything really extreme on maidan (that one guy walking in nazi outfit seems so over the top that I could believe that it was a provocation) I just keep watching them and hoping for the best

BTW you have no idea how butthurt are some people in Poland at the ukraininas for using Bandera as a national hero. there is some shitty history there (houndread thousand people murdered including women and children ) but it's not as simple as some would like to claim and brining it up now is the worst possible move. Ukraininas don't have many history figures that they could use as heroes, especialy in recent history, so it's not surprising that they're worshiping Bandera and most don't even know what his followers did. When situation calms down I see no reason that we shouldn't talk about our past fuckups but right now I basicaly see "nazi ukrainians will kill every pole and eat every pole baby"


----------



## scaramanga (Feb 28, 2014)

Hozukimaru said:


> Have you guys seen this? *Wow*!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, he is such a funny guy.
[YOUTUBE]TMpm2q4tfOk[/YOUTUBE]
You can see how this dude promising to hang new police head, who criticised Sashko's actions. New Ukraine for the win!


----------



## Megaharrison (Feb 28, 2014)

walkerandarazu said:


> Krym Tatars won't be happy though. Are those 'Apaches' helicopters there?



Mi-28's and Mi-24's. Also a Mi-8 at the end.




The overflight by the choopers itself was very deliberate and meant to send a message. They're moving slowly and low to the ground in broad daylight. Putin is not very subtle here.


----------



## Arishem (Feb 28, 2014)

Looks like Putin is fishing for a reaction so he can justify dropping the hammer. That being said, I don't think Ukraine is going to take the bait, as the acting president said the army isn't going to respond to provocations and he even vetoed the controversial language bill. It wouldn't surprise me if little vlad came out of this with egg on his face.


----------



## Megaharrison (Feb 28, 2014)

Obviously Russian soldiers seizing Crimea's airport:



-AK-74M rifle (which is used by the Russian and not Ukrainian armies), check
-Russian military garb, check
-No insignia (pro-Russian Crimean militias would almost certainly be wearing Russian symbols as a statement, Russians themselves have very much a vested interest to not), check

At least they're responsible enough to have loaded magazines though. Actually lessens the possibility of a gunfight.


----------



## Megaharrison (Feb 28, 2014)

Also here's a Buryat, Russians native to freakin Serbia. Oh yeah they're known to live in the Crimea on the other side of the world.



I'm half-Buryat ethnically though so I approve of this clearly.


----------



## Hozukimaru (Feb 28, 2014)

> 2014 February 28 20:45
> Servicemen of Black Sea Fleet of Russian Federation are near Sevastopol Marine guard detachment
> 
> On the morning of February 28 the attempt of Sevastopol Marine guard detachment of the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine blockage was made, State Border Guard Service of Ukraine says. About 30 armed persons without presenting their selves came to Sevastopol marine guard detachment by 4 vehicles. Border guards identified these people as soldiers of 810 Naval Infantry Brigade of Black Sea Fleet of Russian Federation. They have been accommodated in front of the detachment checkpoint and surrounded all the approaches. Snipers are located in altitudes around the detachment.
> ...






By the way, this is interesting: 





> They are Black Sea Fleet marines. At least those on the photos we've seen anyway. Surprised they have facemasks and foregrips on their AKs; everything else looks like def. standard issue for marine and motor-rifle units.
> Hilarious how on mp.net after 10 pages they still can't figure it out. Was obvious from the 1st photo.
> They have no chevrons/force branch patches/flags because there's nowhere good on the uniform to sow them on, so many units just never bothered. We had the same problem too back in 2010/2011. An oversight really.




and



> > Any news about rumors of Ukrainian Navy officers resignation?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Arishem (Feb 28, 2014)

Russia is whipping out the salami.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX_d_vMKswE[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## ExoSkel (Feb 28, 2014)

*Russia deploys troops to Crimea - Ukrainian Situation Gets Worse*



> In the aftermath of the revolution in Ukraine - in which pro-Western and nationalist Ukrainians have taken power after the fall of President Viktor Yanukovych - there are fears that the southern region of Crimea could become a battleground between forces loyal to Ukraine and Russia.
> 
> Armed men have raised flags over government buildings declaring "Crimea is Russia", while separatist and pro-Ukrainian groups have clashed with each other in the streets.
> 
> ...



http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-russia-of-taking-over-airports-live-updates

Bonus video:
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUthbNCA1nc[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Chelydra (Feb 28, 2014)

Obama making more empty threats   Russia is trembling in their little boots 



> Obama on Ukraine: The U.S. is 'deeply concerned'
> 
> (CNN) - The United States is "deeply concerned" by reports of Russian military movements inside Ukraine, President Barack Obama said Friday, saying any violation of Ukraine's sovereignty would be "deeply destabilizing."
> 
> ...


----------



## ExoSkel (Feb 28, 2014)

I'm not sure if this topic deserves a separate thread from official Ukrainian protest thread, but since this is more about Russia sending troops to Ukraine, I guess it's a different topic in all.

And there is no way US will intervene in this. America will do nothing as they did nothing when Russia spanked Georgia for being a naughty boy.


----------



## Arishem (Feb 28, 2014)

Speaking of mealymouthed commentary, CNN described the troop movements as an "uncontested arrival."


----------



## Chelydra (Feb 28, 2014)

Assad's crossing the "Redline" also comes to mind.  Ukraine is fucked now that Russia is crushing the pro western government.


----------



## Hozukimaru (Feb 28, 2014)

> • “They’re provoking us into an armed conflict,” said Ukrainian acting president Oleksandr Turchynov. He said the Ukrainian military would not be baited. He called on Russian president Vladimir Putin to “stop provocations.





> More from the Ukrainian authorities. The country’s defence ministry has said it had information that unknown “radical forces” were planning to try to disarm its military units in Crimea and warned against such action.
> 
> The ministry said in a statement on its Website:
> 
> In the case of such unknown actions, the Ukrainian armed forces will act in accordance with the laws of Ukraine and the regulations of the Ukrainian armed forces.



I just hope that these "unknown radical forces” they're talking about aren't the russian army...


----------



## ExoSkel (Feb 28, 2014)

And EU will do nothing about it, as they always do.


----------



## Hozukimaru (Feb 28, 2014)

And what can they do really? Send their own troops over to Ukraine? Try to talk with Putin?


----------



## Chelydra (Feb 28, 2014)

Hozukimaru said:


> And what can they do really? Send their own troops over to Ukraine? Try to talk with Putin?



No one is going to do anything without US support and as we have seen Obama is a chicken when it comes to these matters.


----------



## Nemesis (Feb 28, 2014)

3 Nations in the EU have armies worth talking about.

UK won't do anything because they are transitioning their military structure
France won't do anything because their military is busy in Africa
Germany won't do anything because it understands having good ties with the biggest dog in the area and more importantly their constitution forbids using the military outside of German borders (That and they remember the no invading Russia rule of war)



Chelydra said:


> No one is going to do anything without US support and as we have seen Obama is a chicken when it comes to these matters.



A chicken how?  If you bring up Syria then there is this thing called Congress that he needs support for to start military intervention.  Bush era basically made it impossible for presidents to go it alone on a political level.


----------



## ExoSkel (Feb 28, 2014)

Hozukimaru said:


> And what can they do really? Send their own troops over to Ukraine? Try to talk with Putin?


Ask Ukraine if they need any military assistance. 

EU has been silent about this whole Crimean event. But of course, you are right. What can they do? Absolutely nothing but hope.


----------



## Hozukimaru (Feb 28, 2014)

I wouldn't call Obama a chicken tbh, he has a fairly tough stance actually on many subjects when it comes to that stuff especially for a democrat. And well, Nemesis, it doesn't matter really, a conflict would be disastrous for both sides even with Europe at its peak.



> US may pull out of G8 summit
> 
> A senior administration official in Washington DC has said that the US is considering pulling out of this Summer’s G8 summit in Russia.
> 
> ...


----------



## Chelydra (Feb 28, 2014)

> A chicken how? If you bring up Syria then there is this thing called Congress that he needs support for to start military intervention. Bush era basically made it impossible for presidents to go it alone on a political level.



A president can launch military operations without congressional approval but then legally after a certain time period he has to get congressional approval while the military action is still going on. Ergo we could have easily launched a massive airstike campaign against Syria without congressional approval and have it done before the alloted time before requiring congressional approval rolls around.

And yes Obama is a chicken, Assad crossed that redline and he did nothing. He will do nothing here as well. Its quite typical of him. While Putin on the other hand will have no qualms about using force to crush the pro western government there.


----------



## ExoSkel (Feb 28, 2014)




----------



## Chelydra (Feb 28, 2014)

Not applicable we did nothing in Syria


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 28, 2014)

News flash says that all internet and telephone communications are inaccessible in Krym. Unknown who really cut the lines, the Russians so that they take their salamy tactic quietly or Ukraine to prevent communication. Ukrainians cut the water supplies to some cities so that people would get thirsty and go to Ukraine.

Didn't Picarovskij (or what's the guys name) the one that got killed by Bandera was only guy killed by him? The rest was just polish people living in Ukrainian lands which they bought of Ukrainians who could sell but not buy lands anymore, meaning they would get poorer. Then Germans got killed, then more Polish fighting for Germans. Picarovskij is a national enemy of Ukraine, but Bandera is a hero, in Poland it's vice versa.



Megaharrison said:


> Also here's a Buryat, Russians native to freakin Serbia. Oh yeah they're known to live in the Crimea on the other side of the world.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm half-Buryat ethnically though so I approve of this clearly.



Oh, cool. I'm 12,5% Buryat, my grandfather on mothers side was Buryat, but interesting, no-one till one of my brothers had eyes like a true Buryat. I'm on other hand, I'm blond with blue eyes  My mom still lives next to Baikal, where her dad was living.

P.S. He wanted to write Siberia, not Serbia. That *freaking* serbia though


----------



## Hozukimaru (Feb 28, 2014)

Vietnam's door opened outwards and it hit US in the head.


----------



## Megaharrison (Feb 28, 2014)

Russian 2S34 self-propelled guns in the Crimea. Clearly just local self-defense militias!


----------



## ExoSkel (Feb 28, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> Russian 2S34 self-propelled guns in the Crimea. Clearly just local self-defense militias!


It's around 2AM in Eastern Europe. When was this taken?


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 28, 2014)

Awesome. I wonder if Kosovo people made it into nice one.

P.S. Tanks maybe truth, since the internet is cut in Crimea


----------



## Hozukimaru (Feb 28, 2014)

> Other than skipping the G8 and imposing trade and other sanctions, the extent of US leverage over Russia on Ukraine seems limited, according to Stephen Collinson, the AFP’s White House Correspondent. He adds on Twitter: No path through UN Security Council and Obama needs Putin on Iran talks, Syrian chemical weapons and logistical exit from Afghanistan.





> Mikheil Saakashvili, president of Georgia at a time when that country fought a five-day war with Russia in 2008 over the Georgian breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, has been pushing for the US to take punitive financial measures agains Russia.
> 
> Saakashvili, a studio guest on CNN, said that it would be wrong to underestimate Ukraine’s military strength, adding that its officer corps was of a high calibre and that a “considerable chunk” of Russian officers were ethnically Ukrainian.
> 
> ...



Saakashvili should pick his words wisely because it doesn't seem like Putin is in a good mood, lol.


----------



## walkerandarazu (Feb 28, 2014)

In other news - Lithuania gets a shortage of *Salt*. Salt shelves were already empty on Thursday in some 'Maxima' shopping centers. One of biggest salt suppliers in Europe is Ukraine, who gets its salt from Black Sea.


----------



## Kagekatsu (Feb 28, 2014)

Crimea's probably going to secede, or at least attempt secession in the next few weeks.


----------



## Hozukimaru (Feb 28, 2014)

Possibly. 



> Under Russia's existing law, a neighbouring state would have to sign a treaty with Russia to allow part of its territory to become a new "subject" of the Russian Federation.
> 
> But Mikhail Yemelyanov, deputy leader of A Just Russia, said the law had been drafted for peaceful times, and did not go far enough for situations where a state was falling apart.
> 
> "In conditions where a neighbouring state is disintegrating I don't think the Russian Federation should be restricted in its ability to accept a territory whose people have expressed a clear will and desire to be in Russia", he said.



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26381454

So if this law gets through, a simple Crimean refenderum is enough for Russia to get Crimea as its own territory. Obviously Ukraine would refuse since it won't see itself as a disintegrating state etc etc


----------



## ExoSkel (Feb 28, 2014)

It's happening, folks. Crimea will now officially be part of Russian Federation.



> MOSCOW, February 28 (RIA Novosti) – Lawmakers in Russia introduced a bill in parliament on Friday to simplify the absorption of new territories into the country in what will be widely interpreted as a signal that Moscow may be planning to gain control over Ukraine’s mainly ethnic Russian-populated region of Crimea.


----------



## Megaharrison (Feb 28, 2014)

ExoSkel said:


> It's around 2AM in Eastern Europe. When was this taken?



Probably earlier in the day. Whoever took that photo looks like they weren't meant to be there so could have taken a while to get uploaded.


----------



## Jin-E (Feb 28, 2014)

Wasn't Crimea basically arbitarilly given to Ukraine by Khrutschev in the 50's? Not saying it justifies a illegal landgrab today, but that would explain why this region is so heavily pro-Russian and at odds with the rest of the country.


----------



## ExoSkel (Feb 28, 2014)

Jin-E said:


> Wasn't Crimea basically arbitarilly given to Ukraine by Khrutschev in the 50's? Not saying it justifies a illegal landgrab today, but that would explain why this region is so heavily pro-Russian and at odds with the rest of the country.


That's exactly why. It was never part of Ukraine until Krushchev offered it to Ukraine for their suffering during WWII, because the region has a tremendous value in agriculture even still today.


----------



## Megaharrison (Feb 28, 2014)

Jin-E said:


> Wasn't Crimea basically arbitarilly given to Ukraine by Khrutschev in the 50's? Not saying it justifies a illegal landgrab today, but that would explain why this region is so heavily pro-Russian and at odds with the rest of the country.



It is, but the same could be said if Finland wanted East Karelia back or Germany Kaliningrad (both which Russia took in WWII) if we use that as justification. And yeah, I know that wasnt your point, but people claiming this are dumbshits.


----------



## Jin-E (Feb 28, 2014)

ExoSkel said:


> That's exactly why. It was never part of Ukraine until Krushchev offered it to Ukraine for their suffering during WWII, because the region has a tremendous value in agriculture even still today.



So why have Ukraine failed to properly integrate these people? Are they being discriminated against in such a manner that would justify their secessionist attitudes? Or have they never come to terms with it?



			
				Megaharrison said:
			
		

> It is, but the same could be said if Finland wanted East Karelia back or Germany Kaliningrad (both which Russia took in WWII) if we use that as justification. And yeah, I know that wasnt your point, but people claiming this are dumbshits.



True

The one difference though is that the original population in these two regions have probably either been expelled or transfered somewhere else and replaced with Russians(as were commonly done by the Soviets to secure borders inhabitated by politically "suspect" ethnic groups). In Crimea, the largely Russian population seems to have remained(even if Stalin removed many of the other )


----------



## Bontakun (Feb 28, 2014)

Oh shit Russians invading Crimea. Shit is getting real.

What if the EU+US militarily helps to assert Ukraine's sovereignity?


----------



## ExoSkel (Mar 1, 2014)

Bontakun said:


> Oh shit Russians invading Crimea. Shit is getting real.
> 
> What if the EU+US militarily helps to assert Ukraine's sovereignity?


EU and US won't and can't do shit to antagonize Russia militarily. That would be really fucking stupid thing to do. There is nothing they can do but sit back and watch.


----------



## Nemesis (Mar 1, 2014)

Bontakun said:


> Oh shit Russians invading Crimea. Shit is getting real.
> 
> What if the EU+US militarily helps to assert Ukraine's sovereignity?



They won't.  They didn't when the Russians got the pounce on NATO in Kosovo airport either.

Granted the US general Wes Clarke ordered British troops under General Mike Jackson (yes that is his name) to confront the Russians but the British refused (Singer James Blunt was the commanding officer down there).

Basically European troops and Generals will not confront Russia head on because they know it could start WW3.  We're not stupid in that regard and in the end negotiation and compromise is better than having a good number of nuclear weapons flying off at each other.


----------



## Sferr (Mar 1, 2014)

Jin-E said:


> So why have Ukraine failed to properly integrate these people? Are they being discriminated against in such a manner that would justify their secessionist attitudes? Or have they never come to terms with it?



Because of politics. There is basically no difference in culture between Russians an Ukrainians, you can even find people that would argue that they are the same nation( from the Russian part mostly, thought ). But Ukrainian nationalists from west side of the country are mostly anti-Russian and anti-Russian influence. Sometimes that goes into such extremes that some very nationalistic Ukrainians hate everything Russian and when almost half of the country speaks in Russian, issues appear. There is also the case of this guy: 
In western Ukraine he is considered the national hero, the freedom fighter for Ukrainians. For Russians and Poles, he was an undoubted terrorist and fascist who was on Nazi side and was killing a lot of innocent people. So, when Russian Ukrainians are being forced to like this guy, other issues also appear. That is basically the major reason also, why Russians call western Ukrainians as fascists.  Actually, the majority of East and South Ukraine consider the west Ukrainians as fascists. 



Nemesis said:


> They won't.  They didn't when the Russians got the pounce on NATO in Kosovo airport either.
> 
> Granted the US general Wes Clarke ordered British troops under General Mike Jackson (yes that is his name) to confront the Russians but the British refused (Singer James Blunt was the commanding officer down there).
> 
> Basically European troops and Generals will not confront Russia head on because they know it could start WW3.  We're not stupid in that regard and in the end negotiation and compromise is better than having a good number of nuclear weapons flying off at each other.



I think the more recent example with Georgia can show what will happen if Russia invades Ukraine. Nobody would do anything, just say how it's wrong and how Russia should stop, and would try to show Russia in the news as evil as possible, probably screwing some facts or straight up lying along the way.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 1, 2014)

Couldn't Obama move one of our _Nimitz_-class battlegroups into the Black Sea to deter Russian Aggression in the region?


----------



## olaf (Mar 1, 2014)

why many ukraininas hate russians (and have trouble integrating)?


----------



## Bontakun (Mar 1, 2014)

ExoSkel said:


> EU and US won't and can't do shit to antagonize Russia militarily. That would be really fucking stupid thing to do. There is nothing they can do but sit back and watch.





Nemesis said:


> They won't.  They didn't when the Russians got the pounce on NATO in Kosovo airport either.
> 
> Granted the US general Wes Clarke ordered British troops under General Mike Jackson (yes that is his name) to confront the Russians but the British refused (Singer James Blunt was the commanding officer down there).
> 
> Basically European troops and Generals will not confront Russia head on because they know it could start WW3.  We're not stupid in that regard and in the end negotiation and compromise is better than having a good number of nuclear weapons flying off at each other.



True, true. They should have noticed a troop buildup near the Russian border and rushed into Crimea first. Now it's too late.

Will Russia actually dare to annex the territory though? They might try to make a break-off state out of Crimea instead...


----------



## ExoSkel (Mar 1, 2014)

Bontakun said:


> True, true. They should have noticed a troop buildup near the Russian border and rushed into Crimea first. Now it's too late.
> 
> Will Russia actually dare to annex the territory though? They might try to make a break-off state out of Crimea instead...



Read the posts. I've already posted a link where Russian parliament introduced the bill to annex Crimea.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Couldn't Obama move one of our _Nimitz_-class battlegroups into the Black Sea to deter Russian Aggression in the region?


LOL, sure. And do what exactly? Russians aren't afraid of US intervention. This isn't some small country with absolutely no naval power to speak of, like North Korea and Syria. US can't deter Russia with sea power. Not to mention, Russia already has naval bases near Sevastopol and there are already large amount of Black Sea Fleet standing by. You don't bring in small carrier fleet into Russian backyard to scare them off, when that country has large amount of navy already standing by in that specific region. Plus US requires Turkey's permission in order to get into the sea, which Obama rather not do, since Erdogan seems to be fucking salty as hell nowdays.


----------



## Megaharrison (Mar 1, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Couldn't Obama move one of our _Nimitz_-class battlegroups into the Black Sea to deter Russian Aggression in the region?



Require the cooperation of Turkey, who is a gigantic asshole and harmful to NATO nowadays.

I also didnt think any were available due to Obama cutting 2 CBG's and the rest either being in the Persian Gulf/Pacific or refit, but the George H.W. Bush is actually in the Mediterranean right now when I got around to looking.

So yeah, basically we'd need A.) US gov to have balls and B.) Turkey to stop being annoying for this to work.



			
				ExoSkel said:
			
		

> LOL, sure. And do what exactly? Russians aren't afraid of US intervention. This isn't some small country with absolutely no naval power to speak of, like North Korea and Syria. US can't deter Russia with sea power. Not to mention, Russia already has naval bases near Sevastopol and there are already large amount of Black Sea Fleet standing by. You don't bring in small carrier fleet into Russian backyard to scare them off, when that country has large amount of navy already standing by in that specific region.



It ain't the Cold War anymore, Black Sea fleet assets are pretty negligible. Right now it's 2 Frigates, 1 Destroyer, 2 Cruisers (1 of which is inoperable right now according to warfare.ru), and a Submarine plus a small number of Sub chasers and missile boats. The Slava Class Cruiser and the Kilo sub are the only thing particularly worrying imo.


----------



## ExoSkel (Mar 1, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> It ain't the Cold War anymore, Black Sea fleet assets are pretty negligible. Right now it's 2 Frigates, 1 Destroyer, 2 Cruisers, and a Submarine plus a small number of Sub chasers and missile boats. The Slava Class Cruiser and the Kilo sub are the only thing particularly worrying imo.


Like I said, US isn't gonna test the black sea fleet just to show them power.


----------



## Megaharrison (Mar 1, 2014)

ExoSkel said:


> Like I said, US isn't gonna test the black sea fleet just to show them power.



Russia's doing the same thing right now though. They're playing these little power-statement games like it's 1973 all over again (just look at the number of attempted airspace violations by Russian aircraft into Canadian/Japanese airspace as of late). US needs to put the ball in Russia's court again with the chicken game if they want to play that it's Cold War again. The Russians won't open fire if a CBG enters the Black Sea (and neither would the US, obviously), and it'd send a statement that Putin would actually understand and be a media strength-booster.

The Black Seas Fleet was quite formidable in the old days of the USSR but right now it's in pretty bad shape relatively speaking, and US needs to point that out.

Basically, with the Russians regularly de facto annexing territories of their neighbors on a regular basis now (Transnistria, S. Ossetia, Abkazhia, the presence in Armenia, now Crimea) I think the US needs to start acting like it's the Cold War again for the time being.


----------



## ExoSkel (Mar 1, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> Russia's doing the same thing right now though. They're playing these little power-statement games like it's 1973 all over again (just look at the number of attempted airspace violations by Russian aircraft into Canadian/Japanese airspace as of late). US needs to put the ball in Russia's court again with the chicken game if they want to play that it's Cold War again. The Russians won't open fire if a CBG enters the Black Sea (and neither would the US, obviously), and it'd send a statement that Putin would actually understand and be a media strength-booster.


Even if US manages to send their carrier strike group, this wouldn't send the message to Putin. This is showing his way of consolidating his power. And he knows US isn't gonna declare war on Russia over Ukraine. Plus, Russia already occupied Crimea without any resistance from Ukraine civilians (whom are Russian ethnic, but that's besides the point). US sending carrier group would be too late as of now. 



> The Black Seas Fleet was quite formidable in the old days of the USSR but right now it's in pretty bad shape relatively speaking, and US needs to point that out.


They have far more warships than you listed above. Even though, they are more missile boats amphibious ships, and coastal defense.

US can't shift their focus on two things at the same time. They were dealing with the Chinese and South China Sea, now shifting tension to Black Sea would divide the congress, even if Obama wants to send in the carrier strike group.


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## Megaharrison (Mar 1, 2014)

ExoSkel said:


> Even if US manages to send their carrier strike group, this wouldn't send the message to Putin. This is showing his way of consolidating his power. And he knows US isn't gonna declare war on Russia over Ukraine. Plus, Russia already occupied Crimea without any resistance from Ukraine civilians (whom are Russian ethnic, but that's besides the point). US sending carrier group would be too late as of now.



It'd still send a message as the Russians are circlejerking about the need to secure the Black Seas ports to the point of annexing their neighbors territory. Not to mention there's a chance of a Russian occupation of Eastern Ukraine as well.




> They have far more warships than you listed above. Even though, they are more missile boats amphibious ships, and coastal defense.



If you want specific in terms of surface combatants that I didn't mention it's 3 small ASW boats, 4 missile boats, 2 hovercraft, plus landing ships/logistical craft.

But really what the specific capabilities are aren't very relevant because beyond maybe trying to ram each other (this happened quite frequently in Cold War days), the ships won't fire on anyone from either side.



> US can't shift their focus on two things at the same time. They were dealing with the Chinese and South China Sea, now shifting tension to Black Sea would divide the congress, even if Obama wants to send in the carrier strike group.



USN has the assets available in the area right now though. 6th Fleet is 1 Carrier, 2 Cruisers, 5 Destroyers, a frigate, and 3 attack subs right now (plus support ships) according to the navy's website. That's big enough to make quite a splash.


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 1, 2014)

Bontakun said:


> What if the EU+US militarily helps to assert Ukraine's sovereignity?




WWIII.


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## ExoSkel (Mar 1, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> It'd still send a message as the Russians are circlejerking about the need to secure the Black Seas ports to the point of annexing their neighbors territory. Not to mention there's a chance of a Russian occupation of Eastern Ukraine as well.


Eastern Ukraine has been pro-Russia for long time now. Even if Russia was to occupy Eastern half, there wouldn't be any civilian resistance, other than Ukrainian government itself. US isn't gonna send their assets until shit hits the fan. And clearly Russians don't give a darn if they occupied Crimea while US navy was already in near-by.




> USN has the assets available in the area right now though. 6th Fleet is 1 Carrier, 2 Cruisers, 5 Destroyers, and 3 attack subs right now (plus support ships) according to the navy's website. That's big enough to make quite a splash.


Which first requires permission from Turkey in order to send them. Which isn't gonna happen soon, since Erdogan recently visited Russia to get Putin's economic cooperation.


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 1, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> 2 Cruisers (*1 of which is inoperable right now* according to warfare.ru)



Kerch?

And yea, even though Putin isn't someone who would lose his shit over the 6th fleet, his own navy forces in the are are is not in a very good condition.


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## olaf (Mar 1, 2014)

ExoSkel said:


> Which first requires permission from Turkey in order to send them. Which isn't gonna happen soon, since Erdogan recently visited Russia to get Putin's economic cooperation.




and they don't see to be too happy with the actions of putin there, so who knows


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## Jeαnne (Mar 1, 2014)

wtf Russia


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 1, 2014)

Here we go here we go here we go...


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## Illairen (Mar 1, 2014)

Just give Putin his precious Crimea. I don`t want to go to war because of that shitty island and the majority there is russian anyway. If they wantt to secede from Ukraine, allow them to secede.


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## olaf (Mar 1, 2014)

Jeαnne said:


> wtf Russia


not really

russias involvement was always a thing that could happen, especialy since there is bunch of people with russian passports living in Ukraine (concern for their safety is quite good _casus belli_ from russian perspective)

I always thought that it would be the eastern ukraine, but I forgot about Crimean history and the importance of that region for russian navy



Illairen said:


> Just give Putin his precious Crimea. I don`t want to go to war because of that shitty island and the majority there is russian anyway. If they wantt to secede from Ukraine, allow them to secede.


you know that there is a treaty from 90's that obliges usa and uk to protect ukrainian land 

(ukrainians traded all their nuclear weapons for that)


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## Ernie (Mar 1, 2014)

This won't be easy for Russia, not at all.


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## ExoSkel (Mar 1, 2014)

Modderfakker said:


> This won't be easy for Russia, not at all.


They already took over Crimea and much of southern region. Taking over good chunk of eastern Ukraine would be child's play at this point.


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 1, 2014)

Illairen said:


> because of that shitty _island_



Peninsula.



olaf said:


> you know that there is a treaty from 90's that obliges usa and uk to protect ukrainian land
> 
> (ukrainians traded all their nuclear weapons for that)




Which Russia also signed iirc.


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## ExoSkel (Mar 1, 2014)

We need a separate thread for this. This is no longer about Ukraine pro-EU vs pro-Russia protests. This whole event is now turning upside down.


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## ExoSkel (Mar 1, 2014)

Putin seeks full blown Ukraine military intervention. 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400035

Shits going to hit the fan very soon.


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## Sferr (Mar 1, 2014)

Nah, there won't be any huge Russian invasion if Kiev doesn't provoke them, like attack Crimea.


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## olaf (Mar 1, 2014)

Hozukimaru said:


> Which Russia also signed iirc.


I know. I've read somwhere that Russia is not really caring about that treaty when it comes to some weapons regulations (something about that treaty being no longer valid or needing update or some shit) 


ExoSkel said:


> We need a separate thread for this. This is no longer about Ukraine pro-EU vs pro-Russia protests. Thtis whole event is now turning upside down.


dunno, there is so much shit going down there that I'm not sure if we need two spearate threads. maybe a namechange would be enough, to something like "Ukraine riots & Crimea situation"


Sferr said:


> Nah, there won't be any huge Russian invasion if Kiev doesn't provoke them, like attack Crimea.


I agree. right now putya is testing how much can he do until UE/USA get really pissed off.


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## ExoSkel (Mar 1, 2014)

Pro-Russian protesters in Kharkiv



The Russian flag now flying in Ukraine's second largest city Kharkiv




Over 30k pro-Russia protesters in Donetsk


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 1, 2014)

olaf said:


> I know. I've read somwhere that Russia is not really caring about that treaty when it comes to some weapons regulations (something about that treaty being no longer valid or needing update or some shit)



Well with that "if a part of a neighboring country which is under disintegration chooses that it wants to join us, Russia has the power to accept it as its part" (this is more or less what the law says) new law (if it passes) it won't be very hard for Russia to override the treaty.


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## Jin-E (Mar 1, 2014)

AFP reporting that Putin is asking parliament to approve using Russian forces in Ukraine

It's official then.


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## ExoSkel (Mar 1, 2014)

Jin-E said:


> AFP reporting that Putin is asking parliament to approve using Russian forces in Ukraine
> 
> It's official then.


As I've already stated above.


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## Sferr (Mar 1, 2014)

Odessa too rose against Kiev.


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## Jin-E (Mar 1, 2014)

ExoSkel said:


> As I've already stated above.



Apologies, missed it.


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## ExoSkel (Mar 1, 2014)

Latest news is that Ukraine has no functioning chain of command. Even their Kiev Junta is overly clusterfucked to the point where even the generals has no idea whom they should be reporting to. 

With Russian troops inside the border of Crimea and eastern border, this "invasion" could end very quickly if there ever was a full blown Russian invasion.


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## ExoSkel (Mar 1, 2014)

Shocking News : Federation Council unanimously approves sending troops to Ukraine.

But seriously, who didn't see this coming?


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## walkerandarazu (Mar 1, 2014)

I guess Ukrainians failed with integration. Instead of 30:1 ration Russian to Ukrainian schools in some regions, they should have promote ukrainian language. 
Harkiv city is full of Russian people, while the state is full of ukrainians, so it's going to be hard there. 
Come on Turkey, help out Tatars in Krym.


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## ExoSkel (Mar 1, 2014)

walkerandarazu said:


> I guess Ukrainians failed with integration. Instead of 30:1 ration Russian to Ukrainian schools in some regions, they should have promote ukrainian language.
> Harkiv city is full of Russian people, while the state is full of ukrainians, so it's going to be hard there.
> Come on Turkey, help out Tatars in Krym.


90% of Tatars were killed off when Russian Empire invaded Crimea. There are no Tatars to speak of in Crimea as of today, or they are too small in population to speak of.


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## Hozukimaru (Mar 1, 2014)

ExoSkel said:


> 90% of Tatars were killed off when Russian Empire invaded Crimea. There are no Tatars to speak of in Crimea as of today, or they are too small in population to speak of.



And on top of that Stalin kicked them out...


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 1, 2014)

Where did all these Russian propagandists appear from?


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## walkerandarazu (Mar 1, 2014)

ExoSkel said:


> 90% of Tatars were killed off when Russian Empire invaded Crimea. There are no Tatars to speak of in Crimea as of today, or they are too small in population to speak of.


Well 12,5% of Crimea consider themselves Tatars, which is still something.


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## Arishem (Mar 1, 2014)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Where did all these Russian propagandists appear from?


I've noticed these types popping up on Neogaf, Something Awful, and other high traffic forums. Who knows how many protin comments are flooding places like youtube and yahoo? It's a well known fact that Russia pays people to portray them positively online. While I wouldn't paint everyone espousing such as plants, it's probably a combination of that and general internet stupidity. The sad thing is you can rarely tell the two apart.


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## Megaharrison (Mar 1, 2014)

Arishem said:


> I've noticed these types popping up on Neogaf, Something Awful, and other high traffic forums. Who knows how many protin comments are flooding places like youtube and yahoo? It's a well known fact that Russia pays people to portray them positively online. While I wouldn't paint everyone espousing such as plants, it's probably a combination of that and general internet stupidity. The sad thing is you can rarely tell the two apart.



As someone who frequently gets accused of being a nefarious paid propaganda agent the claims are pretty much BS. Rather I think being pro-Russian takes place if you have a common mindset found on the internet:

-Anti-American/Western
-A desire to be "counter-culture"
-Juvenile view of "strength" and are swept up in Putin's silly "macho" personality cult.

On MP.net they actually have a specific label for these people, "Russia str000ng!", or "Stronk!"s for short. Have for several years

Also fixed the title for Exo, my little babuschka


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