# Accelerator vs The Flash (comics)



## pikachuwei (Feb 20, 2010)

The guy said by OBD wiki to be immune to Speedblitz

vs

The Epitome of speedblitz.

Bloodlust on PIS/CIS off

1) no time travelling so Baby Accelerator doesnt get killed etc etc
2) No planet busting from The Flash (OBD wiki says he was planetary +, so. . .)

Everything else goes.


----------



## zenieth (Feb 20, 2010)

90% of speed blitz, Flash is backed by the speed force, you should know how this shit goes down.


----------



## Endless Mike (Feb 20, 2010)

Speed steal


----------



## lambda (Feb 20, 2010)

zenieth said:


> 90% of speed blitz, Flash is backed by the speed force, you should know how this shit goes down.


I honestly don't follow your reasoning because I don't know much about The Flash. Explain, please?


----------



## Neelon (Feb 20, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> The guy said by OBD wiki to be immune to Speedblitz
> .



And how " Speedblitzing won't work on him *90%* of the time" is implying that Accelerator is immune to speedblitz again?


----------



## lambda (Feb 20, 2010)

That's where the 90% thing comes from.


----------



## Marsala (Feb 20, 2010)

Run around in a circle to create a vortex that sucks away all the air around Accelerator. Standard Flash tactic, should work as long as Accelerator can't stop him.


----------



## Yoshikage Kira (Feb 20, 2010)

OP, have you been lurking in 4chan?
flash rapes hard


----------



## Itachi2000 (Feb 20, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> The guy said by OBD wiki to be immune to Speedblitz
> 
> vs
> 
> ...



Wtf is this sh$t seriously do you really want me to make Index verse vs SBP Prime thread this is rape beyond reasoning. Flash speedblitz in a heartbeat


----------



## Quelsatron (Feb 20, 2010)

Itachi2000 said:


> Wtf is this sh$t seriously do you really want me to make Index verse vs SBP Prime thread this is rape beyond reasoning. Flash speedblitz in a heartbeat



Fortunately your thread making capabilities have been revoked, so you can't do piss about it you little twat


----------



## zenieth (Feb 20, 2010)

Aww quelsatron, I wanted to remind him.


----------



## Quelsatron (Feb 20, 2010)

Well, you can't have everything can you?


----------



## Itachi2000 (Feb 20, 2010)

Quelsatron said:


> Fortunately your thread making capabilities have been revoked, so you can't do piss about it you little twat



Lies lies nothing but lies! 
Anyway Batman with preptime vs Sauce coming soon


----------



## Chaosgod777 (Feb 20, 2010)

even with all the other ways the accelerator can be beaten,the flash outclasses him and rips his head off with an FTL punch ,or speed stealing,really im pointing logical simple shit here,the flash fucking kills


----------



## Xelloss (Feb 20, 2010)

I am not sure a ftl punch would work, then again I haven't read anything of the flash in at least a decade.


----------



## Chaosgod777 (Feb 20, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> I am not sure a ftl punch would work, then again I haven't read anything of the flash in at least a decade.



for what i get how is the accelerator going to miss FTL Punches ?he can keep running and punching to a point the accelerator could get hit,instead of just stoping the flash or the flash could steal all the accelerator speed and let him frozen and inmobile


----------



## Xelloss (Feb 20, 2010)

Accelerator can be death for all that matters and his power would continue to work, his body its cover with a field so there no weak point to exploid on his shield.

And speed force its banned due to OP.


----------



## Quelsatron (Feb 20, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> Accelerator can be death for all that matters and his power would continue to work, his body its cover with a field so there no weak point to exploid on his shield.
> 
> *And speed force its banned due to OP.*



No, it's not**


----------



## Chaosgod777 (Feb 20, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> Accelerator can be death for all that matters and his power would continue to work, his body its cover with a field so there no weak point to exploid on his shield.
> 
> And speed force its banned due to OP.



then since its not banned,speed force FTW i just have read wikis from the accelerator and that series chars,i need to start reading the manga


----------



## Xelloss (Feb 20, 2010)

Ok  sorry I was sure I read no speed force, not that I think Accelerator would win anyways


----------



## Red (Feb 20, 2010)

Ive seen this thread on 4chan and the same thing I say there is the same thing I'll say here: Flash creams Accel.


----------



## pikachuwei (Feb 20, 2010)

well tbh i thought when they mean 90% of the time it doesnt work it was because of timestops and other shit (they dont really explain why 10% of the time it works)

but i really dont see how stealing accelerator's speed works @_@

but i think FTL punches should be fair enough since Xelloss says Accel is still restricted by our laws of physics (funny since he breaks many of them) and cant calculate past lightspeed.


----------



## pikachuwei (Feb 20, 2010)

Ryuhei said:


> OP, have you been lurking in 4chan?
> flash rapes hard



actually no i havent really been to 4chan


Itachi2000 said:


> Wtf is this sh$t seriously do you really want me to make Index verse vs SBP Prime thread this is rape beyond reasoning. Flash speedblitz in a heartbeat




havent u already made a mikoto vs marvel or sumthing thread?


----------



## Xelloss (Feb 20, 2010)

I never say a ftl punch would work, his field its always active so even ftl would  have trouble with it, problem its flask have other cheap tricks like create a vacumm and other things, calculate and modify to prevent that from happening won't work due to the flash speed.


----------



## pikachuwei (Feb 20, 2010)

so basically its not Accelerator's power who gets speedblitzed

its the fact he cant compute fast enough? Fair enough.

we needs to get him a better brain


----------



## Chaosgod777 (Feb 20, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> so basically its not Accelerator's power who gets speedblitzed
> 
> its the fact he cant compute fast enough? Fair enough.
> 
> we needs to get him a better brain



its not like the accelerator its too slow,its most like the flash its too damn fast


----------



## pikachuwei (Feb 20, 2010)

hmm yeah accel can calculate at molecular levels, hes alraedy supercomputer+, i mean it took 10,000 misakas to get him to somewhere back to his normal computing prowess. . .

i wonder what would happen if we hooked someone like reed richards up to misaka network to boost accelerator's calculating powers. . .


----------



## Xelloss (Feb 20, 2010)

2 things

Accelerator >> Misaka Network the 10,000 sisters make him have around half his former calculating power

Darking doesn't even calculate and he doesn't use Misake network anymore.


----------



## Chaosgod777 (Feb 20, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> hmm yeah accel can calculate at molecular levels, hes alraedy supercomputer+, i mean it took 10,000 misakas to get him to somewhere back to his normal computing prowess. . .
> 
> i wonder what would happen if we hooked someone like reed richards up to misaka network to boost accelerator's calculating powers. . .



sadly none feat saves him from the speed stealing h4x


----------



## pikachuwei (Feb 20, 2010)

what exactly does speed stealing do

the wiki isnt very informative.

and besides theoratically accelerator just changes his speed back to normal again (he can do that)

Hes like a hacker, he can choose to alter the values of everythign around him and the universe's physics engine just changes everything else. 

so if Flash steals Accelerator's speed and sets him to [0] speed, accelerator can just set it back up to normal. . .but speedsteal is probably a lot more complicated.

theoratically if flash gets too close to accelerator accel can "alter" his speed too. say Flash's speed is [insert massively faster than light], as soon as he gets within a certain distance of accelerator (in the range of accel's personal AIM field) accelerator can alter Flash's speed to [0] or [-5000000000000000000 kmph] (if you know ur vectors that means flash goes the other way at that speed). The best thing is that accel shouldnt have to "react" to it (clearly impossible), he just has to set the field to do that to anything that enters it above a certain mass. I mean he doesnt really react and calculate for every bullet he reflects, its set on auto. That in a nutshell is kinda how Accel's power works

(this is all what i read from animesuki btw, im not clever enough to think out half the stuff i just posted)


----------



## Chaosgod777 (Feb 20, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> what exactly does speed stealing do
> 
> the wiki isnt very informative.
> 
> ...



you make me think the authors themselves barely know what they are writing...


----------



## Xelloss (Feb 20, 2010)

Accelerator power its to control vectors

His normal use its to create a shield over his body, the default setting of this field its "reflect" anything no barely minium to sustain life. This shield can be alter to deflect other things like sound.

Also he can use his power on other ways like to alter any vector he can touch, but that need to actually calculate those vectors.

All espers have something called the AIM, think of it as a representation on their powers on another dimension, once accelerator awakens he can take control of the AIM complety, and alter things to attach Vectors to things that doesn't have, this allow him to control anything with a manifestation on the AIM (most powers). Also the AIM its another dimension trying to alter the normal one thus nullify magic and other sources of power.


----------



## Marsala (Feb 21, 2010)

I don't think that speed steal would work since it would mean overriding Accelerator's control over the vectors of his own body. Flash would still win by creating a vacuum, though. Also, I read that Accelerator would not be able to survive a nuke because he couldn't breathe in the center of the fireball, so Flash could just steal a nuke and set it off right next to Accelerator before he could react. Cheap, but hey, whatever works.


----------



## Itachi2000 (Feb 21, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> what exactly does speed stealing do
> 
> the wiki isnt very informative.
> 
> ...



Thing is Flash can still vibrate through accelerators and make himself intangible so no altering his speed wont work and let's not forget flash thinks faster than 853 century supercomputer he brain calculates faster than accelerator


----------



## pikachuwei (Feb 21, 2010)

Chaosgod777 said:


> you make me think the authors themselves barely know what they are writing...



well all this was from theorist fans who probably have more physics qualifications and put more thought into Accelerator than the author did, as one of them put it accel is a lot more broken than you think.



Xelloss said:


> Accelerator power its to control vectors
> 
> His normal use its to create a shield over his body, the default setting of this field its "reflect" anything no barely minium to sustain life. This shield can be alter to deflect other things like sound.
> 
> ...



That pretty much sums it up. The official explanation was something like "magic is writing alien laws into the fabric of our reality. However AIM fields create another alien world with no room for magic, therefore magic is nullified by AIM and magic users explode when trying to use magic in an AIM field"



Marsala said:


> I don't think that speed steal would work since it would mean overriding Accelerator's control over the vectors of his own body. Flash would still win by creating a vacuum, though. Also, I read that Accelerator would not be able to survive a nuke because he couldn't breathe in the center of the fireball, so Flash could just steal a nuke and set it off right next to Accelerator before he could react. Cheap, but hey, whatever works.



Hyperbolic time chamber has no nuke. 

And how does flash create vacuum again? because if its like how he makes a tornado, theoratically accel could just reverse the flow of air etc. However flash could probably move the "bubble" of "vacuum" so accel never gets close enough to manipulate the air around the vacuum (his vector field only extends a limited distance around him)



Itachi2000 said:


> Thing is Flash can still vibrate through accelerators and make himself intangible so no altering his speed wont work and let's not forget flash thinks faster than 853 century supercomputer he brain calculates faster than accelerator




Too bad accel's vector ability works at the molecular and quite possible atomic level. . .


----------



## Endless Mike (Feb 21, 2010)

Flash has so many ways to win this it's not funny. In fact you banned time travel so you basically admitted he would win that way, but then there's the vacuum tactic, speed steal, speedforce dump, vibrate through him, etc.


----------



## Itachi2000 (Feb 21, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> well all this was from theorist fans who probably have more physics qualifications and put more thought into Accelerator than the author did, as one of them put it accel is a lot more broken than you think.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


same goes for flash only that he already vibrated through accels head that and it happens before accels began thinking


----------



## pikachuwei (Feb 21, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Flash has so many ways to win this it's not funny. In fact you banned time travel so you basically admitted he would win that way, but then there's the vacuum tactic, speed steal, speedforce dump, vibrate through him, etc.



Well with time travel anyone and their mother can solo 90% of fiction, just go back in time and kill said opponent's great great great great great great grandmother. Heck if u can trace it, go back and kill the rat the character evolved from, and bingo no more opponent.

Vacuum tactic i assume is made by flash running around Accel in circles? That would work, as long as flash keeps moving the vacuum bubble so accel's AIM field cannot reach the air (should be easy enough for a massively ftl person) even if Accel turns his AIM into wings via darkwing flash just has to change teh size of the vacuum bubble. Would be tough but i see flash winning like htis

I dont know enough about speedforce and speed steal to make a comment


Itachi2000 said:


> same goes for flash only that he already vibrated through accels head that and it happens before accels began thinking



The point is accel's ability works at molecular to atomic levels (can control temperature by altering how much they vibrate) plus he doesnt have to react to block attacks (he certainly doesnt know when one of the Sisters is aiming an anti tank rifle at his back) so i dont see vibrating through accel working. Accel could just stop Flash's individual molecules from vibrating, or even worse, disperse flash's individual molecules in different directions. (is flash like a logia? does he come back again after dispersing?)


----------



## VJPholwanna (Feb 22, 2010)

Cliche post is cliche.


----------



## pikachuwei (Feb 22, 2010)

ive seen that. . .no mention of speedforce and speedstealing besides Flash wearing underpants made of GOING FAST


----------



## MisterShin (Apr 3, 2010)

For those saying Accel gets air sucked out of him. He can just jump high into the sky to avoid the vacuum that Flash is making.


----------



## Archreaper93 (Apr 3, 2010)

Why is Accelerator considered immune to speedblitz?


----------



## noobthemusical (Apr 3, 2010)

MisterShin said:


> For those saying Accel gets air sucked out of him. He can just jump high into the sky to avoid the vacuum that Flash is making.



How he would land eventually and Flash would suck him then.

Hell how high can he jump the vacuum isn't small.


----------



## Juri (Apr 3, 2010)

noobthemusical said:


> How he would land eventually and Flash would suck him then.
> 
> Hell how high can he jump the vacuum isn't small.



well, if the author knows his physics then accel should be able to fly even without Dark wing by setting the gravity to 0 and assigning vectors to himself. but...


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 3, 2010)

Accelerator did admit that unless he control gravity vectors he would be flying around because his power would repel gravity.


----------



## Juri (Apr 3, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> Accelerator did admit that unless he control gravity vectors he would be flying around because his power would repel gravity.



Ah well, that answers that. so he can stay airborne indefinitely. now what?


----------



## Archreaper93 (Apr 3, 2010)

I repeat, why is Accelerator considered immune to a speedblitz?


----------



## ~Greed~ (Apr 3, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Flash has so many ways to win this it's not funny. In fact you banned time travel so you basically admitted he would win that way, but then there's the vacuum tactic, speed steal, speedforce dump, vibrate through him, etc.



Vibrating through him won't work since accelerators powers are now confirmed to work on things with no vectors in the first place. Even teleportation doesn't work on him any more. Accelerator can fly so the vacuum tactic wont work. Accelerator doesn't even need to move for his powers to work, infact, with CIS on he usually just lets people try and punch him, and then this happens.


But I honestly don't see accelerator winning this ether way. 

Its not like Accelerator can even tag the flash. The only way I see him having a chance is if The Flash tries to punch him with one of his normal FTL punches, at that point I think even The Flash would explode by having his own power reversed back into his body. That is of course if Accelerators vector field can work on something that hits at FTL speed, Though that may not be out of the question, since even light gets deflected. I know the flash is like a billion times faster then light but it's possible it still may work.....well, no probably not.



noobthemusical said:


> Hell how high can he jump the vacuum isn't small.



As high as He wants I would assume. he has to forcefully make gravity effect him, otherwise hell just be floating around like a balloon.



jedijohn said:


> I repeat, why is Accelerator considered immune to a speedblitz?



Because his defensive powers are fucking broken.


----------



## Itachi2000 (Apr 4, 2010)

~Greed~ said:


> Vibrating through him won't work since accelerators powers are now confirmed to work on things with no vectors in the first place. Even teleportation doesn't work on him any more. Accelerator can fly so the vacuum tactic wont work. Accelerator doesn't even need to move for his powers to work, infact, with CIS on he usually just lets people try and punch him, and then this happens.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Flash powers comes from *the Speedforce not just pure speed* unless accel can control the Speedforce hes not reversing wally powers and pray tell how he is going to fly when flash already imp him to oblivion before his could even start to calculate what happened?


----------



## ~Greed~ (Apr 4, 2010)

Itachi2000 said:


> Flash powers comes from *the Speedforce not just pure speed* unless accel can control the Speedforce hes not reversing wally powers and pray tell how he is going to fly when flash already imp him to oblivion before his could even start to calculate what happened?



I never said accelerator was winning. Infact I said he loses. I was simply playing out the scenario's.


----------



## Diskyr (Apr 4, 2010)

jedijohn said:


> I repeat, why is Accelerator considered immune to a speedblitz?



I dont think noones responding. maybe you should look him up?


----------



## Unknown (Apr 4, 2010)

Diskyr said:


> I dont think noones responding. maybe you should look him up?



Because his defensive powers are fucking broken.

Greed has already answer you...

Accel controls vectors, that meanst that It doesn't matter how fast something hits him he can manipulate the vectors of the force and the speed..., that ability works even when accel sleeps...


----------



## zenieth (Apr 4, 2010)

And you don't seem to understand that the speed force isn't just speed. Flash'll rape him before he can even begin to fathom what he was getting raped by.


----------



## Kurou (Apr 4, 2010)

that and i don't see how accel is stopping an infinite mass punch.


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 4, 2010)

I never state Accelerator its complety immune to speedblitz, and speedforce its not exactly a normal speedblitz, he is simple to hard to deal with a normal one.

Most of the people who know Accelerator know he would lose here.


----------



## MisterShin (Apr 4, 2010)

zenieth said:


> And you don't seem to understand that the speed force isn't just speed. Flash'll rape him before he can even begin to fathom what he was getting raped by.



If Flash makes any physical contact with Accelerator, he will die.
Accelerator can reverse a persons blood on contact.

Accelerator is also a genius, by calculating wind, vector, speed etc he created plasma out of air/wind.


----------



## Agmaster (Apr 4, 2010)

But all this doesn't matter.

Because 'lol speedblitz'  

Yeh, fucking depressing isn't it?  But this thread taught me about Accelerator.  Think I'll go read To Aru now.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Gain's reasoning is pretty sound, I say


----------



## Rene (Apr 4, 2010)

Have we actually reached a concession on how the Flash is going to defeat Accelerator? Since Flash can't touch him.

Edit:

Coolness is subjective.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Flash has so many ways to win this it's not funny. In fact you banned time travel so you basically admitted he would win that way, but then there's the vacuum tactic, speed steal, speedforce dump, vibrate through him, etc.



this



> yeah just give it up guys it's 100% proved now
> 
> bitches



hell yeah


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 4, 2010)

Speed force would work on accelerator, while broken have deal with magic, etc and have impresive feats like stop all earth movement, split a continent in 2 he is not yet a lvl to take on the Flash.


----------



## MisterShin (Apr 4, 2010)

Someone please explain to me how speedblitz triumphs over vector control?

Speedblitz requires motion, which can be reflected with vector control.

Accelerator can withstand Extreme temperatures(e.g. fire, lightning) and loud sound can be reflected using Vector Control.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Flash wins via FTL tea-bagging


----------



## Gain (Apr 4, 2010)

ace dick gonna ride this bitch to the m00n


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Ace Dick rides whatever he pleases


----------



## Yoshikage Kira (Apr 4, 2010)

MisterShin said:


> Someone please explain to me how speedblitz triumphs over vector control?
> 
> Speedblitz requires motion, which can be reflected with vector control.
> 
> Accelerator can withstand Extreme temperatures(e.g. fire, lightning) and loud sound can be reflected using Vector Control.


yet, he has to breathe an air vacuum is going to kill him easily


----------



## MisterShin (Apr 4, 2010)

Ryuhei said:


> yet, he has to breathe an air vacuum is going to kill him easily



Accelerator knows his breathing weakness.

1. Accelerator would jump high into the air using vector control to escape vacuum.

2. Accelerator can charge through the vacuum ring that flash is making around Accelerator to make contact with flash, any contact and flash is dead.

3. Accelerator could stamp on the floor to fire loads of debris at flash, which would distract him from making the vacuum.

4. Vacuum is Flashes only way of winning really, but Accelerator has methods to escape it.


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 4, 2010)

Ryuhei said:


> yet, he has to breathe an air vacuum is going to kill him easily



That weakness have been eliminated in Darkwing mode, also the need to process.


----------



## Kurou (Apr 4, 2010)

MisterShin said:


> If Flash makes any physical contact with Accelerator, he will die.
> Accelerator can reverse a persons blood on contact.
> 
> Accelerator is also a genius, by calculating wind, vector, speed etc he created plasma out of air/wind.





Rene said:


> Have we actually reached a concession on how the Flash is going to defeat Accelerator? Since Flash can't touch him.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Coolness is subjective.





MisterShin said:


> Someone please explain to me how speedblitz triumphs over vector control?
> 
> Speedblitz requires motion, which can be reflected with vector control.
> 
> Accelerator can withstand Extreme temperatures(e.g. fire, lightning) and loud sound can be reflected using Vector Control.



so~ you're saying accel can stop an infinite mass punch because he's going to explode infinite mass, see the problem with that?


----------



## ~Greed~ (Apr 4, 2010)

Gain said:


> Well the Flash is cooler so i think he wins





*Spoiler*: _Accelerator is cool......well in his own psychotic way_ 






> A shotgun's effective power increases at short ranges. That said, this distance isn't yet the best; even so Accelerator leans back on a wall, raises his staff from the floor, aims appropriately and fired.
> 
> A shoulder-breaking shock came along with an ear-splitting roar. As expected, the shots scatter about before it hits the target. But in the surroundings are hard concrete and metal plates. Several shots ricochet from them like pinballs and crash into the black-clad from different angles.
> 
> ...








Still one of my favorite scenes.


----------



## MisterShin (Apr 4, 2010)

KurouKetsu said:


> so~ you're saying accel can stop an infinite mass punch because he's going to explode infinite mass, see the problem with that?



Infinite Mass Punches power would be reflected back to the user, in this case the Flash.

Bullets shot at Accelerator, reflect back to the guns that fired the shoot. 

People that punch Accelerator break their arms by doing so, i presume far worse would happen from an Infinite Mass Punch.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 4, 2010)

MisterShin said:


> Infinite Mass Punches power would be reflected back to the user, in this case the Flash.
> 
> Bullets shot at Accelerator, reflect back to the guns that fired the shoot.
> 
> People that punch Accelerator break their arms by doing so, i presume far worse would happen from an Infinite Mass Punch.


but

those people aren't the Fucking Flash 

how does that stop the FTL tea-bagging


----------



## Agmaster (Apr 4, 2010)

What are the limits to vectors.  How much mass or force can it stop?  No set limit?  Prove to me stopping a being of speed is NLF.


----------



## Endless Mike (Apr 4, 2010)

The fact that the OP had to restrict Flash's time travel is already an admission that he wins.


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 4, 2010)

He have show 1.6x10^29 jouls of energy while not even at his strongest. (Weaker than his initial apperance and before darkwing mode).


----------



## Endless Mike (Apr 4, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> He have show 1.6x10^29 jouls of energy while not even at his strongest. (Weaker than his initial apperance and before darkwing mode).



Which is really shit compared to an IMP


----------



## pikachuwei (Apr 4, 2010)

an imp? arent they those little green fairy thingys?

and i already explained why i banned time travel. FLash would jsut travel back in time and kill Accel's mum. Its totally unfair and doesnt give what i desire, a conflict between the 2 characters


also i think the vacuum technique would work on accel. I mean all flash has to do is to continuously make sure accel is at the centre of the vacuum. If accel tries to fly out flash just moves the vacuum (kinda like a tornado) keepign accel in teh centre. Hes gonna die eventually

now things get tricky if accel turns darkwing, if his AIM field can reach the edges of the vacuum he will be able to cancel the vacuum by letting air back in

now that i think abotu it, would accel increasing gravity inside the vacuum work? wouldnt air like get pulled back in towards it?


----------



## Ulti (Apr 4, 2010)

IMP = Infinite mass punch


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Flash wins via FTL tea-bagging



**


----------



## Ulti (Apr 4, 2010)

Or theres always that


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 4, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Which is really shit compared to an IMP



I am aware but someome ask for his max, and thats his max show so far.

Darkwing doesn't need to breath.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Ultimecia said:


> Or theres always that



he'll also make it vibrate at FTL speeds 

a quick, yet humiliating, death


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 4, 2010)

Darkwing its surronded by a antimatter wings 100 of them actually. not that I think that he can't dodge them all, they would be like frozen due to differnce in speed.


----------



## Kurou (Apr 4, 2010)

MisterShin said:


> Infinite Mass Punches power would be reflected back to the user, in this case the Flash.
> 
> Bullets shot at Accelerator, reflect back to the guns that fired the shoot.
> 
> People that punch Accelerator break their arms by doing so, i presume far worse would happen from an Infinite Mass Punch.



bullets don't have infinite mass

neither does anybody that hit him. how exactly does it stop an Infinite mass punch? how is he going to reflect infinite mass?


----------



## Endless Mike (Apr 4, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> Darkwing its surronded by a antimatter wings 100 of them actually. not that I think that he can't dodge them all, they would be like frozen due to differnce in speed.



Wally once destroyed the Anti-Monitor's armor by phasing through it.

You think antimatter is going to stop him?


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 4, 2010)

I know little of comics to be honest last time I actually bought a comic was the death of superman back in 1994 if I remember correctly (or was 1997).


----------



## MisterShin (Apr 4, 2010)

Accelerator body automatically reflects all things it comes into physical contact with, even Ultra Violet Rays this is why he has an albeno appearence.

He does not need to think or do anything to reflect attacks.


----------



## Kurou (Apr 4, 2010)

I know what accelerator can do >______>

i said how does he reflect  infinite mass ? the answer is, he doesn't.


----------



## Endless Mike (Apr 4, 2010)

Or really just vibrate inside of him by way of another dimension.


----------



## MisterShin (Apr 4, 2010)

KurouKetsu said:


> I know what accelerator can do >______>
> 
> i said how does he reflect  infinite mass ? the answer is, he doesn't.



Infinite Mass Punch is movement, Vector Control allows you to repel this force in the opposite direction.


----------



## ~Greed~ (Apr 4, 2010)

Gain said:


> read like a hentai to me



What? a hentai? To aru isn't a hentai....Its not even a visual novel. Some of the lines don't translate very well to english though.



MisterShin said:


> Infinite Mass Punch is movement, Vector Control allows you to repel this force in the opposite direction.



The problem is that he would have to infinitely repel the power, and he has never been shown to do something like that.

The most he has done is slow down the earths rotation by 5 minutes , and convert the power he used to do that into a punch. Even if he were to convert that kind of power into a vector field it probably wouldn't help against something that has infinite mass.


----------



## Kurou (Apr 4, 2010)

MisterShin said:


> -snip-



for the last time i know what accelerator can do i've seen the anime and read most of the manga 


that isn't stopping something with infinite mass.


----------



## MisterShin (Apr 4, 2010)

Infinite Mass Punch is not truthly infinite anyway (Infinite = you can always continue one more time). lol

Flash will either never punch because he is trying to achieve Infinite Mass (In other word he is stuck gathering infinite mass, he will be doing this for infinity). 
or
Flash will punch WITHOUT having Infinite Mass behind the punch.


----------



## Quelsatron (Apr 4, 2010)

Proof that accelerator can redirect any amount of force?


----------



## Endless Mike (Apr 4, 2010)

Quelsatron said:


> Proof that accelerator can redirect any amount of force?



The only way to prove that would be if he had a feat of deflecting infinite force. And if he did they would have mentioned it already.


----------



## Archreaper93 (Apr 4, 2010)

~Greed~ said:


> Because his defensive powers are fucking broken.



What can he do defensively that makes him broken?


----------



## ~Greed~ (Apr 4, 2010)

Quelsatron said:


> Proof that accelerator can redirect any amount of force?



I stated earlier that accelerators best re-direction feat was when he slowed down the earths rotation by 5 minutes and converted the vectors from that into a punch. 

Even if he converted that power into his vector shield it wouldn't be enough to stop something with infinite mass.


----------



## MisterShin (Apr 4, 2010)

Quelsatron said:


> Proof that accelerator can redirect any amount of force?



A limit has not be shown on how much he can redirect, if that is what you are getting at. 

Darkwing allows Accelerator to create vectors that do not exist (imaginary vectors), Darkwing also does all vector calculations for him.

Even if by chance Accelerator cannot reflect it, it will be a DRAW, coz Accelerator will reverse Flash blood on contact.


----------



## Yoshikage Kira (Apr 4, 2010)

MisterShin said:


> A limit has not be shown on how much he can redirect, if that is what you are getting at.
> 
> Darkwing allows Accelerator to create vectors that do not exist (imaginary vectors), Darkwing also does all vector calculations for him.
> 
> Even if by chance Accelerator cannot reflect it, *it will be a DRAW, coz Accelerator will reverse Flash blood on contact.*


any gold saint vs accelerator gogo


----------



## ~Greed~ (Apr 4, 2010)

jedijohn said:


> What can he do defensively that makes him broken?





According to this, he could tank all the worlds nuclear supply several times over, and then only die because he would have nothing to eat. It also means his punches would be  powerful then all the worlds nukes going off in a single spot at once.


----------



## Agmaster (Apr 4, 2010)

Petitioning for thread to be changed to Quicksilver vs Accelerator because people just don't get it.


----------



## ~Greed~ (Apr 4, 2010)

Agmaster said:


> Petitioning for thread to be changed to Quicksilver vs Accelerator because people just don't get it.



I already got it, I know accelerator loses. I was simply answering JediJohns question.


----------



## zenieth (Apr 4, 2010)

The force of the earth stopping for 5 minutes isn't infinite, and that appears to be accelerator's limit. IMP to the face.


----------



## MisterShin (Apr 4, 2010)

Flash CANNOT go infinite, infinite never stops.

IMP is impossible to do coz infinite never stops, although it can be close to infinite mass but never infinite mass.


----------



## Quelsatron (Apr 4, 2010)

MisterShin said:


> Flash CANNOT go infinite, infinite never stops.
> 
> IMP is impossible to do coz infinite never stops, although it can be close to infinite mass but never infinite mass.



who cares, he can go above accels limits


----------



## zenieth (Apr 4, 2010)

And that's all that's needed for ftl tea bag.


----------



## MisterShin (Apr 4, 2010)

Quelsatron said:


> who cares, he can go above accels limits



Accelerators limits have not been shown, he can manipulate imaginary vectors with Darkwing . have that for limits he can create vectors which do not even exist or would be impossible to exist.


----------



## pikachuwei (Apr 5, 2010)

i still think IMP is a bag of BS but oh well it seems Accel loses..

not that shameful though, flash is among hte most broken non reality warpers out there (accel is too, but flash is more so)

someone make a quicksilver vs accel


----------



## Endless Mike (Apr 5, 2010)

Sorry to bump this, but something just occurred to me - has Accelerator ever been shown to block/manipulate anything moving faster than the speed of light? I know he passively deflects light rays, but is there any proof he can stop something that is FTL, since it would not follow the normal laws of physics.


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 5, 2010)

Normally that would be a good question, problem with Darkwing its space around him have already distort and its another set of rules he have impose (AIM its like another universe put over the normal universe).

And no at the moment neither version have deal with FTL, he have deal with atomic destruction, mind rape and teleport (another dimension attacks).


----------



## Endless Mike (Apr 5, 2010)

Well considering the speedforce pretty much lets you pick and choose which laws of physics apply to you then I don't see how he is blocking the Flash.


----------



## pikachuwei (Apr 6, 2010)

well accelerator already screws around with the laws of physics anyways


----------



## Fang (Apr 6, 2010)

Isn't the Speed Force multiversal/infinitely reaching or spanning?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 6, 2010)

Yup. It's the primary reason very very very few things are faster than the flash, since DC basically made up it's own level of speed and by definition it's the pinnacle of speed.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 6, 2010)

The Runner..silver surfur..(IG blitz) and mayyyybbbeee makari with gloves off pis off

for surpassing the speed

then there The shrike vs the flash or the runner..but those threads usually devolve into absolute shitstorms


----------



## Soledad Eterna (Apr 6, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> The Runner..silver surfur..(IG blitz) and mayyyybbbeee makari with gloves off pis off
> 
> for surpassing the speed
> 
> then there The shrike vs the flash or the runner..but those threads usually devolve into absolute shitstorms



What about Seiya?


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 6, 2010)

veget0010 said:


> What about Seiya?



no clue..not the SS experrt

that'd be charcan..yak TWF and co


----------



## Fang (Apr 6, 2010)

Yak has nothing to do with Saint Seiya; he's the Kongo Banchou/Bastard!!/Bleach expert.


----------



## Crimson King (Apr 6, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> The Runner..silver surfur..(IG blitz) and mayyyybbbeee makari with gloves off pis off
> 
> for surpassing the speed
> 
> then there The shrike vs the flash or the runner..but those threads usually devolve into absolute shitstorms



The Shrike is always the answer to someone trying to wank a character. I have a feeling his tree is getting full.


----------



## Ulti (Apr 6, 2010)

Or you get someone like Jedah, Pyron, Belial, Anita etc:


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 6, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> The Shrike is always the answer to someone trying to wank a character. I have a feeling his tree is getting full.




from what I remember of thos twenty page shit storms..shrike can't take norrin or runner or..some of the others

but thats still a pretty high area...shrikes a good "wank killer"

although I still prefer Odin man


----------



## Endless Mike (Apr 8, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> from what I remember of thos twenty page shit storms..shrike can't take norrin or runner or..some of the others



I don't see why not. He could kill Surfer on Zenn-La before he even became a Herald.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 8, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> I don't see why not. He could kill Surfer on Zenn-La before he even became a Herald.



that's what I had argued but there was proof submitted and from I recall from seeing some of the old comics. some what legit scans

surfur did at one point in time in his career possess time travel abilities of his own..at one point time warping a planet in a manner similar to what Scott did

mind you..I don't think the writers ever remembered he had those abilities past say the eighties? so how relevent those feats would be depends on nfs own policy about such things no?

least ways that's how I remember it going


----------



## Endless Mike (Apr 8, 2010)

Of course he has time travel but nothing compared to a creature that can effect infinite timelines at once


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 8, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Of course he has time travel but nothing compared to a creature that can effect infinite timelines at once



I thought his defenses where a bit more..profound? or was it just typical marvel time itself..doing it;s "no changing the past unless you have the heart of eternity..or I like you" schtick it does?


----------



## AzureD (Apr 9, 2010)

I am new here but let me give my 2 cents on Accelerator's vector control. From the way it is described in the manga it seems that he is a living 1 way portal who can choose what enters it. That means no matter how much force you applied on him it would be like punching a tunnel that turns back onto itself meaning you would punch yourself. He is not controlling the energies of the attack on him but more like the directional reality of the forces being acted upon him. So it is like he builds a tunnel through space which makes the force acting upon him go in the direction he desires.

IMP should not work because there is no directional reality heading toward Accelerator to punch beyond the point where the IMP meets Accelerator.

Accelerator is a kind of limited reality warper of directions and velocities.

Of course Accelerator would probably still lose as his physical movements are still human and you can cut off the stuff he needs to survive but a direct attack consisting of direction or force will not work.


----------



## Itachi2000 (Apr 9, 2010)

AzureD said:


> I am new here but let me give my 2 cents on Accelerator's vector control. From the way it is described in the manga it seems that he is a living 1 way portal who can choose what enters it. That means no matter how much force you applied on him it would be like punching a tunnel that turns back onto itself meaning you would punch yourself. He is not controlling the energies of the attack on him but more like the directional reality of the forces being acted upon him. So it is like he builds a tunnel through space which makes the force acting upon him go in the direction he desires.
> 
> IMP should not work because there is no directional reality heading toward Accelerator to punch beyond the point where the IMP meets Accelerator.
> 
> ...



IMP Is powered by the Speedforce and is million of times lightspeed accel can redirect an attack because his brain can calculate faster before an attack hit him like supercomputer so he is able to USE his ability to reverse it however that won't work against wally(flash) since he is million of times faster than accel can even think do you get it?


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 9, 2010)

Itachi2000 said:


> IMP Is powered by the Speedforce and is million of times lightspeed accel can redirect an attack because his brain can calculate faster before an attack hit him like supercomputer so he is able to USE his ability to reverse it however that won't work against wally(flash) since he is million of times faster than accel can even think do you get it?



First off, Accelerator on darkwing no longer need to calculate anything at all.

Second, his vector its already up, he doesn't calculate anything unless he needs to modify his filter to add or remove something from it.

He needs to calculate when he is not doing something by default like create plasma.


----------



## zenieth (Apr 9, 2010)

This still doesn't help him not get sodomized xellos.


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 9, 2010)

Did I ever imply that, I was just correcting Itachi2000, I concede time ago about speed force I never argue vs it, much less when Mike say you can choose the rules of a universe and use them.


----------



## Gooba (Apr 9, 2010)

How did Accelerator get shot in the head?  Did something cancel his power?


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 9, 2010)

He need all his calculating power to actually change the bioelectrical impulso, so he took of his default vector shield (Call it CIS).


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 9, 2010)

AzureD said:


> I am new here but let me give my 2 cents on Accelerator's vector control. From the way it is described in the manga it seems that he is a living 1 way portal who can choose what enters it. That means no matter how much force you applied on him it would be like punching a tunnel that turns back onto itself meaning you would punch yourself. He is not controlling the energies of the attack on him but more like the directional reality of the forces being acted upon him. So it is like he builds a tunnel through space which makes the force acting upon him go in the direction he desires.
> 
> IMP should not work because there is no directional reality heading toward Accelerator to punch beyond the point where the IMP meets Accelerator.
> 
> ...



if that force happens to be from a guy who himself is empowered by a source of energy that shits on reality and phsysics you sure?


----------



## Taleran (Apr 9, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> The Runner..silver surfur..(IG blitz) and mayyyybbbeee makari with gloves off pis off
> 
> for surpassing the speed
> 
> then there The shrike vs the flash or the runner..but those threads usually devolve into absolute shitstorms



No Sorry, an issue of Quasar (Marvel Comic) had Barry Allen race the pants off everything in the Marvel Universe.


oh and as the for the Flash, Barry and Wally both ran through a *Singularity* in the final issue of Final Crisis


----------



## Gooba (Apr 9, 2010)

Taleran said:


> No Sorry, an issue of Quasar (Marvel Comic) had Barry Allen race the pants off everything in the Marvel Universe.
> 
> 
> oh and as the for the Flash, Barry and Wally both ran through a *Singularity* in the final issue of Final Crisis


He beat everyone on Marvel Earth.  None of the cosmics were in that race.


----------



## Taleran (Apr 9, 2010)

Makkari was, and then there as a second issue that Makkari only won because Barry stopped to beat up the Evil Energizer Bunny(not making it up), and the Runner was in that Race. Oh and the Road Runner presented the medals


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 9, 2010)

Taleran said:


> No Sorry, an issue of Quasar (Marvel Comic) had Barry Allen race the pants off everything in the Marvel Universe.



Cross overs are not canon...that as a homage

not fucking usable as evidence..my friend


----------



## AzureD (Apr 9, 2010)

Itachi2000 said:


> IMP Is powered by the Speedforce and is million of times lightspeed accel can redirect an attack because his brain can calculate faster before an attack hit him like supercomputer so he is able to USE his ability to reverse it however that won't work against wally(flash) since he is million of times faster than accel can even think do you get it?



Argument does not work because he does not think in order to do this. It works even if he is unconscious. He only needs to think when he is doing something special and not his default always on defense. If FTL punch comes then the defense for it is already on. This is why sneak attacks do not work on Accelerator and pretty much most forms of speed blitz. 

No direct attack speed blitz will work. It has to be a speed blitz of indirect attack.

Edit: Also Accelerator is known for being able to use his abilities on very exotic forces that go against the laws of physics. Like when he fought Dark Matter. Also other abilities that change his position like teleportation. However he had to learn how to counter this stuff so he could not do it instantly. 

Also does Flash get to know what Accelerator's abilities are before hand? Flash might lose if he underestimates him and tries to do a general speed blitz. Does Accelerator get to know what Flash is able to do beforehand? He might be able to come up with countermeasures. He would have to use the proper attack in order to beat him. If Flash uses exotic powers on Accelerator then it will have to win in one shot because it will not work twice.

Really Accelerator has the powers to fit right in to a group like the Justice League. If he was not such a psychotic.


----------



## zenieth (Apr 9, 2010)

So you're saying that no person, no matter how strong can ever hit him directly, yeah shit like that isn't going to fly, that's a no limits fallacy.


----------



## pikachuwei (Apr 9, 2010)

well thats basically how his power works

its a deviation from normal concepts but yes its a no limits fallacy, but one with good reasons behind it.

i mean if u punch accelerator and if say the hulk punches accelerator accelerator will have no more difficulty redirecting hulk's punch than your punch. That is how his passive vector control field works. Accel even states himself the stronger his opponent is the faster they fall, as he can use their attacks against themselves.

As seen in his fight against touma, accel actually has to make more effort against level 0s than level 5s. Touma has no offensive power so accel has to create his own attacks, which use up his calculation power as apposed to just simply redirecting the enemy's attacks back at them, which requires no calculations as it is on by default.


----------



## Taleran (Apr 9, 2010)

He has the same powerset as Kraftwerk from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Part 5 on a different scale. There are still ways to beat that, a good one early in the thread was the cyclone to remove the air from an area.


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 9, 2010)

Taleran said:


> He has the same powerset as Kraftwerk from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Part 5 on a different scale. There are still ways to beat that, a good one early in the thread was the cyclone to remove the air from an area.



Useless vs Darkwing, normal accelerator does have that handicap


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 9, 2010)

for the last fucking time 


Crimson Dragoon said:


> Flash wins via FTL tea-bagging


----------



## mmg86 (Apr 9, 2010)

Crismon Dragoon, i have never read a single page of whatever manga Accelerator is from, but, if AzureD and pikachuwei are describing his powerset correctly, Flash FTL teabags himself.

I mean, if you believe being fast enough somehow overrides abilities like the ones that Accelerator has, then Flash beats Gold Experience Requiem.

Only chance Flash has of winning this is by knowing beforehand of Accelerators powers and exploiting some loophole of it.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 9, 2010)

mmg86 said:


> Flash FTL teabags himself.



not really

the Flash spits on physics and tea bags it

you people don't know what you're talking about


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 9, 2010)

seriously this thread is fucking stupid and I'll ask Ryoma to close it


----------



## zenieth (Apr 9, 2010)

His powers haven't been used to the level that GER has, so you can't just make an association like that. Flash is backed by speed force, which means he should in all cases override Accelerator and proceed to literally tea bag at the speed of light.


----------



## Fang (Apr 9, 2010)

Couldn't Barry Allen just punch Accelerator before the match started...at every single point in time.


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 9, 2010)

His vector field its always on, as stated multiple times even if he is sleeping his field is up. I am always up for backing Accelerator but he lost to speedforce (maybe he can tap on his power thats equal to god he would be able to take on the Flash till that time comes he is raped).


----------



## mmg86 (Apr 9, 2010)

zenieth said:


> His powers haven't been used to the level that GER has, so you can't just make an association like that. Flash is backed by speed force, which means he should in all cases override Accelerator and proceed to literally tea bag at the speed of light.



As i said, i do not know the manga Accelerator is from. I used a comparison to GER because it is a power in the same style, and by that i mean "one that spits on conventional approach", NOT "a power that stalemates GER".

Also, i see a lot of biased posts here. People ask for scans/proof of Accelerator stopping Infinite Mass Punches, saying that if they do not exist, Accelerator cant defend himself from them. Would it not be fair for people defending Accelerator to do the same and ask for scans/proof of Flash bypassing the defenses of someone with the same powerset that Accelerator has?


----------



## Fang (Apr 9, 2010)

Why don't you re-read the entire thread to get an idea of what The Flash can actually do or visit this link:


----------



## AzureD (Apr 9, 2010)

I do not understand how a vector field is going to be overcome by a super fast punch. It is like saying if you punch fast enough it will go 90% degrees to the right instead of strait. You can not overcome vectors through sheer force as far as I know.

You are all treating it like it is some sort of invulnerability field or a mirror defense or something when it is nothing like that. It is a really abstract type of power that defies conventional logic. Upper limits do not apply to directions. They simply are.

He has never shown any strain no matter the scale of attack even slightly as far as I can recall. Or even being moved a millimeter because he can't be moved by it. The vectors carrying those forces never reach him.



Vector does not have anything to do with the scale of the force in it. It is just a direction. When an attack reaches Accelerators presence the vectors heading toward him cease to exist and only directions that he so chooses move away from him. He is not directly controlling the mass or energy in the object that follows the vector.

I am taking his statements as being able to control vectors literally. Like taking away the ability of a 2D object from having up, down, left, right choices of movement from the left choice of movement not being possible. If you push a box toward a wall even though the box can not move past the wall vectors from the box are still going through the wall such as sound, heat, and kinetic energies. If no vectors are heading toward the wall then pushing a box would make it louder, have it heat up, and if vectors where reversed at the wall the box would push back against the pusher even though it is still going toward the wall.

If vector direction at the wall where 90 degrees left then pushing against the wall would probably make the box move to the left with no resistance or friction against the wall as if the wall did not exist and reality ended at that point. The box stays in a state of potential energy and transfer to kinetic energy does not occur.

Now if Accelerator can not literally control vectors then anything goes and I have no idea what the upper limits of his abilities are. Maybe what he really does is that he sets up reflecting mirrors for forces which is something completely different. In this form he would have limits because a mirror can only reflect so much to a point since it is still absorbing a portion of what it is he is reflecting.


----------



## zenieth (Apr 9, 2010)

The problem with the first is that once you go faster than light, you're breaking the laws of physics, meaning rules that would normally apply to everything does not necessarily apply to you now. There has yet to be any proof that accelerator has the ability to deal with something that screws over the basic rules of physics, so you can't just say that because he controls vectors of defined limits that he can control something, which has limits that can not be held by physics.
 Hell it's possible they couldn't even be vectors once they pass that point.


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 9, 2010)

zenieth said:


> The problem with the first is that once you go faster than light, you're breaking the laws of physics, meaning rules that would normally apply to everything does not necessarily apply to you now. There has yet to be any proof that accelerator has the ability to deal with something that screws over the basic rules of physics, so you can't just say that because he controls vectors of defined limits that he can control something, which has limits that can not be held by physics.
> Hell it's possible they couldn't even be vectors once they pass that point.



Actually there has been, darkmatter (not in the sense we know it) but its another esper who can change the fundamentals of how everything works, turning light into energy beams, bypassing vectors.

"He can add whatever to his field after darkwing, problem its that he need to see it, understand it and add it to his field" this is normally not a problem for darkwing as his wings automatical process anything and add it, but I still think flash would be much much faster than the reaction to add speed force, and if what EM say its true change the rules of speedforce each attack screw with Darkwing.


----------



## AzureD (Apr 9, 2010)

You know now that I think about it with more thought that FTL punch might in the end kill him anyway. What would happen is that the second that punch touches Accelerator then the Flash receives the same punch back which is then doubled because he hits the resistance of his own punch but the force behind his own punch one more due to only one directional vector existing. This means that it would be like the Flash colliding with 2 more Flashes in the same instance. The resulting explosion would be larger than any nuclear explosion ever witnessed by orders of magnitude.

A motorcycle traveling at NEAR the speed of light colliding with something would create an explosion bigger than the Hiroshima bomb. This is many orders of magnitude beyond that. It would be a planetary catastrophe and even if Accelerator survived it he would not be able to survive the environment he would end up in.

Accelerator already defies the laws of physics anyway so I do not see that being a problem here. I do not even know what to think of his imaginary vector control so I did not bother with it. Accelerators powers are hard to understand as it is without complicating it anymore.


----------



## zenieth (Apr 9, 2010)

He defies the law of physics as that's his ability, but he's never beaten an ability that in itself breaks the rules, sure the character's can't do what is humanly possible, but their abilities still fall under the laws of phsyics, ftl does not so ftl teabagging is a true option.


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 9, 2010)

As I said he have defeated and add darkmatter to his shield, but he need to first understand so yeah speed force.


----------



## Rashou (Apr 9, 2010)

I know next to nothing about either character, but the argument that just because Flash can warp a few laws of physics means Accelerator is screwed is horrible. Don't get me wrong, if Flash has specifically shown he can warp the laws that Accelerator manages to manipulate- in this case the way to which vectors work within a specific range of him, if I'm reading this right- then that would be fine. But if he hasn't you can't just say that Accelerator's powers won't work on the Flash because he has broken other _unrelated_ laws of physics. Well, not unrelated, but not closely related. Otherwise you may as well say anyone who can void physical laws could get past his vector field, even if their ability only extended to something as (relatively) rudimentary as canceling gravity for flight, or creating matter where there was none. 

I don't know what specific physical laws the Speed Force allows Flash to void, but not many seem relevant to dealing with manipulation of direction, which seems to be Accelerator's base power in a nutshell.


----------



## zenieth (Apr 9, 2010)

Somebody who could create matter out of nothing could probably kill accelerator, by making a building in his stomach, no vector control there.


----------



## Rashou (Apr 9, 2010)

It would depend on their specific ability, but I was more thinking of Nen users and people who can create specific matter instead of just matter wherever they please. But you see my point with the gravity example? The dude that controls gravity may be able to come up with some unique way to use it to beat Accelerator, but he wouldn't be able to beat him by nature of "LOLZ, ME>Phisiks!".


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 9, 2010)

Darkmatter can create matter and even things that didn't exist out of nothing... guess whos on 3 jars on a laboratory and whos with his loli.


----------



## Fang (Apr 9, 2010)

Rashou said:


> I know next to nothing about either character, but the argument that just because Flash can warp a few laws of physics means Accelerator is screwed is horrible. Don't get me wrong, if Flash has specifically shown he can warp the laws that Accelerator manages to manipulate- in this case the way to which vectors work within a specific range of him, if I'm reading this right- then that would be fine. But if he hasn't you can't just say that Accelerator's powers won't work on the Flash because he has broken other _unrelated_ laws of physics. Well, not unrelated, but not closely related. Otherwise you may as well say anyone who can void physical laws could get past his vector field, even if their ability only extended to something as (relatively) rudimentary as canceling gravity for flight, or creating matter where there was none.
> 
> I don't know what specific physical laws the Speed Force allows Flash to void, but not many seem relevant to dealing with manipulation of direction, which seems to be Accelerator's base power in a nutshell.



why don't you just look at the damn respect thread I linked already


----------



## Endless Mike (Apr 9, 2010)

He can steal or add kinetic energy to anything basically without even touching it.


----------



## ~Greed~ (Apr 10, 2010)

zenieth said:


> Somebody who could create matter out of nothing could probably kill accelerator, by making a building in his stomach, no vector control there.




Yea, that is basically what Kakine's ability is. He creates things made up of unknown matter, turns ordinary light into lasers, breaks the rules of reality and creates matter which doesn't even exist and Creates new elements on the periodic table etc. 

All that is left of him after he fucked with Accelerator is a brain in a jar which is split into several pieces. 


And in Darkwing mode, Accelerator can manipulate things which don't even have vectors(like teleportation and kakine's ability and Magical attacks which dont exist in the normal rules of reality). I have stated this like a 100 times, I don't see what is so hard to understand.

Accelerator is basically a reality warper in darkwing.


----------



## pikachuwei (Apr 10, 2010)

i think it would be easier for me to decide if someone can describe speedforce in detail for me, not just posting random links

as far as i know speedforce is just wat allows flash to wear red skinsuits with awesome yellow lightning bolt on the side made entirely out of speed.

and as greed and xelloss has already stated accel took on a person who can ignore the laws of physics (create matter and by extenstion energy from nothing)
and the only thing left of that person is 3 parts of a brain.

dammit im still waiting for baka tsuki to translate that chapter. FUZE=Kazakiri is epic shit though. love it when Vent rages at aleister.


----------



## Darklyre (Apr 10, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> i think it would be easier for me to decide if someone can describe speedforce in detail for me, not just posting random links
> 
> as far as i know speedforce is just wat allows flash to wear red skinsuits with awesome yellow lightning bolt on the side made entirely out of speed.
> 
> ...



The Speedforce is a shitload more broken than just a fancy spandex suit.

It allows the Flash to both steal and impart kinetic energy to any object he wants, and he doesn't need to touch it to use this power. This means he could literally steal all of Accelerator's kinetic energy and leave him a statue. Alternatively, he could let Accelerator move, and then IMPART kinetic energy, so that Accelerator flies off into space at FTL and vaporizes himself. Hell, if he was feeling REALLY nasty he'd give Accelerator superspeed...except for the stomach, so Accelerator would run and immediately disembowel himself.

The Speedforce also allows the Flash to give someone superspeed abilities like him. This means that the Flash has allies around, he can grant them all FTL movement and reaction times.

The Speedforce gives the Flash the ability to vibrate through matter. While Barry can vibrate through things normally, Wally makes them explode afterwards.

Another power that the Speedforce gives is at-will time travel. When Barry and Hal Jordan were being chased by Black Lantern rings, Barry got the rings to drop their target lock by grabbing Hal and jumping forward two seconds in time. Basically, he pulled a Diavolo time-erase.

Yet ANOTHER power is the ability to go to the Speedforce dimension, also at-will. The Flash can basically open up a portal to the Speedforce and dump something or someone in there, then close the portal.


----------



## zenieth (Apr 10, 2010)

I believe the above statement finishes this discussion for good, even though it should been done on page one.


----------



## Kurou (Apr 10, 2010)

~Greed~ said:


> Yea, that is basically what Kakine's ability is. He creates things made up of unknown matter, turns ordinary light into lasers, breaks the rules of reality and creates matter which doesn't even exist and Creates new elements on the periodic table etc.
> 
> All that is left of him after he fucked with Accelerator is a brain in a jar which is split into several pieces.
> 
> ...




so could kakine just make something inside accels body to kill him?


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 10, 2010)

No, teleporting and appering things out of nothing still has vectors.


----------



## Fang (Apr 10, 2010)

Wally vibrates inside of the Accelerator and explodes him


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 10, 2010)

That means use of vectors for vibration, so not gonna happen, just someone seal this thread and let it die, Accelerator can't win as of yet. I have say that page 3 or so.


----------



## Fang (Apr 10, 2010)

I don't think you have actually any clue how Speed Force works; he's stolen speed from the fucking Anti-Monitor. In fact according to the scans, he can overload people with infinite kinetic energy and destroy them. 



Another feat is fucking running outside of the universe and causing the Black Flash to entropy since death was conceptional beyond it.


----------



## Xelloss (Apr 10, 2010)

Well point still stand, just close this and Flash wins


----------



## Kurou (Apr 10, 2010)

i wonder of accel can beat shuda


----------



## pikachuwei (Apr 10, 2010)

so basically speedforce gives flash infinite energy, BFR and speed manipulation 

accel could possibly deal with flash screwing around wiht his speed and shit

but im not sure wat he could do against the other two.


----------



## Fang (Apr 10, 2010)

Accelerator wouldn't do shit to anything the Flash does with his powers.


----------



## Kurou (Apr 10, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> so basically speedforce gives flash infinite energy, BFR and speed manipulation
> 
> accel could possibly deal with flash screwing around wiht his speed and shit
> 
> but im not sure wat he could do against the other two.



no not really. accel doesn't realize flash just made him ftl. he ends up taking a step and flies into the sun by accident. just an example.


----------



## pikachuwei (Apr 10, 2010)

accelerator doesnt walk in fights 

but really? so the opponents dont know their speed changed? that would make for lol kills for sure.


----------



## zenieth (Apr 10, 2010)

Speed force isn't direct, so no. Any move and he's gone from the battle field forever.


----------



## Itachi2000 (Apr 10, 2010)

AzureD said:


> You know now that I think about it with more thought that FTL punch might in the end kill him anyway. What would happen is that the second that punch touches Accelerator then the Flash receives the same punch back which is then doubled because he hits the resistance of his own punch but the force behind his own punch one more due to only one directional vector existing. This means that it would be like the Flash colliding with 2 more Flashes in the same instance. The resulting explosion would be larger than any nuclear explosion ever witnessed by orders of magnitude.
> 
> A motorcycle traveling at NEAR the speed of light colliding with something would create an explosion bigger than the Hiroshima bomb. This is many orders of magnitude beyond that. It would be a planetary catastrophe and even if Accelerator survived it he would not be able to survive the environment he would end up in.
> 
> Accelerator already defies the laws of physics anyway so I do not see that being a problem here. I do not even know what to think of his imaginary vector control so I did not bother with it. Accelerators powers are hard to understand as it is without complicating it anymore.


for the last time you dont know what the speedforce is accel cannot redirect nor control the speedforce therefore he cant do shit against wally


----------



## AzureD (Apr 11, 2010)

And for the last time a direct attack on Accelerator would not work. No matter what rule breaking laws of physics you give it. Accelerator was made to be this way so you can't beat him like this.

Who cares if he can not control speedforce. Accelerator can not control anything directly either except for vectors and that weird stuff in Darkwing mode. Does not stop him form pretty much manipulating anything that has any sort of motion to it.

Not saying Flash would not beat him but not with this. I refuse to concede on this point. I am done with this though. This has become an incredibly long discussion. Moving on now.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 11, 2010)

azureD really? no direct attack will ever work really?

pc darkseid using his omega effect you know the completely unwatered down version of it decides to directly attack accel and erase the guy from existense

this will fail really? how far are we willing to go with this no limits fallacy


----------



## Fang (Apr 11, 2010)

someone said something about how the Accelerator can use a portion of the Earth's rotational energy to do something with his Vectors

The Flash can dig faster than the Earth can rotate


----------



## Endless Mike (Apr 11, 2010)

~Greed~ said:


> turns ordinary light into lasers,.



We can do this with modern technology.


----------



## Fang (Apr 11, 2010)

fuck yeah UV flash lights


----------



## ~Greed~ (Apr 12, 2010)

KurouKetsu said:


> so could kakine just make something inside accels body to kill him?



It would work on just about anyone accept Accelerator, since his power negates those types of attacks.


----------



## AzureD (Apr 12, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> azureD really? no direct attack will ever work really?
> 
> pc darkseid using his omega effect you know the completely unwatered down version of it decides to directly attack accel and erase the guy from existense
> 
> this will fail really? how far are we willing to go with this no limits fallacy



I am not arguing over Flash vs Accelerator anymore.

Define no limits. We are talking about a guy who controls directions in space. magnitude of power has no effect on things like directions. Does no one understand my previous posts? He is not exerting himself over opponents abilities. He can not control his opponents abilities directly. Just the vectors his enemies abilities travel on. He just controls directions. That is all he exerts himself for.

So what was once forward is now backwards. What was left is now right and so on. A bb bullet traveling along a vector is going to go in the same direction a supernova explosion is going to travel in. You can't make a direction more powerful or weaker. It does not have a scale of power.

I mean there is a reason why he is considered so horribly broken. There is a reason why much much weaker guys than the Flash can beat Accelerator too due to their special abilities. While guys like the Hulk could not beat Accelerator. Unless the Hulk has some kind of reality bending powers I do not know of beyond his standard super strength.

May I remind you that just changing directions is his base power. He can make things go faster or slow down too however he has a limit to these abilities. He can control the velocities of objects and on these powers he is much more limited in scale of power.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 12, 2010)

AzureD said:


> Unless the Hulk has some kind of reality bending powers I do not know of beyond his standard super strength.



Not to take this thread into another direction, but he kinda does.

Basically, if he's angry enough, he can smash it. It's a no limits fallacy supported by canon, pretty much. 

For instance, he managed to grab Dr. Strange's spirit/astral/magic form with his bare hands, with no explanation other than "RARRGHGGGGHHHH!", which makes absolutely no sense. 

Gotta love the Hulk


----------



## Endless Mike (Apr 12, 2010)

Yes, in fact one time the Leader was using these gloves that redirected his own strength against him but he overcame them anyway.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 12, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Yes, in fact one time the Leader was using these gloves that redirected his own strength against him but he overcame them anyway.



So he overcame his own strength with...his own strength. Got it.


----------



## pikachuwei (Apr 12, 2010)

the hulk works in strange ways oO


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 13, 2010)

AzureD said:


> Define no limits. We are talking about a guy who controls directions in space. magnitude of power has no effect on things like directions. Does no one understand my previous posts? He is not exerting himself over opponents abilities. He can not control his opponents abilities directly. Just the vectors his enemies abilities travel on. He just controls directions. That is all he exerts himself for


.

yes or no can he repel an attack that bypasses virtually all defenses always hits its target regardless and outside of a few instances requires either divine protection or immense cosmic might to withstand?



AzureD said:


> So what was once forward is now backwards. What was left is now right and so on. A bb bullet traveling along a vector is going to go in the same direction a supernova explosion is going to travel in. You can't make a direction more powerful or weaker. It does not have a scale of power.



and if the attack coming at him is for example something powerful enough to affect every level of reality? ala a skyfathers..something that seems to spam every where at once..ignoring things like physics capable of destroying time lines dimensions...or galaxies?



AzureD said:


> I mean there is a reason why he is considered so horribly broken. There is a reason why much much weaker guys than the Flash can beat Accelerator too due to their special abilities. While guys like the Hulk could not beat Accelerator. Unless the Hulk has some kind of reality bending powers I do not know of beyond his standard super strength.



Hulk popeye (popeye canonically universe busted and then recreated said universe twice on nothing but raw strength for example) various incarnations of superman and various forms of the juggernaut..can punch threw reality literally..tearing holes in space time...dimensions and pretty much anything

so yeah..they'd floor accell 


AzureD said:


> May I remind you that just changing directions is his base power. He can make things go faster or slow down too however he has a limit to these abilities. He can control the velocities of objects and on these powers he is much more limited in scale of power.



in some instances this will not matter


----------

