# Akainu Vs Big Mom



## Sloan (Sep 19, 2020)

Location: Doffy Vs Luffy
Distance: 5 Meters
Mind set: IC
Knowledge: Rep+Manga
Restrictions: None


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 19, 2020)

Mid diff

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Gianfi (Sep 19, 2020)

BM mid-high diff likely. If it was pre-skip Akainu it would be mid diff

Reactions: Like 4


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## Captain Altintop (Sep 19, 2020)

Akainu wins this 10/10 times with *high *( high ) difficulty. It's not even extreme diff.


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## Gotenks92 (Sep 19, 2020)

Big mom wins extreme diff or a tie


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## Dunno (Sep 19, 2020)

Sloan said:


> Location: Doffy Vs Luffy
> Distance: 5 Meters
> *Mind set: IC*
> Knowledge: Rep+Manga
> Restrictions: None


What has Big Mom done to deserve this?


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## lastkiller (Sep 19, 2020)

Big Mom mid diff...Akainu couldn’t defeat zombiebeard...no way he is clapping Mama

Reactions: Like 2


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 19, 2020)

Dunno said:


> What has Big Mom done to deserve this?


- Wasted 30 chapters chasing the SHs screaming CAAAAAAAKE.
- Dealt serious damage to the Yonko and New World hype and threat level.
- Showed up at Wano so rather than getting more focus on other better characters and plots, we can see her racking up more Ls instead.

OT:

Reactions: Like 5 | Funny 1


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## fenaker (Sep 19, 2020)

akainu high diffs

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Sep 19, 2020)

Daisuke Jigen said:


> - Wasted 30 chapters chasing the SHs screaming CAAAAAAAKE.
> - Dealt serious damage to the Yonko and New World hype and threat level.
> - Showed up at Wano so rather than getting more focus on other better characters and plots, we can see her racking up more Ls instead.
> 
> OT:


You've got a point.


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## Lord Melkor (Sep 19, 2020)

Propably either way extreme difficulty, I may actually choose Akainu here if I have to decide on outcome. In general Yonkou hype is greater than Admirals hype, but Akainu should be the strongest Admiral with greatest willpower and Big Mom has more negative feats than him. I also think that Mama may be slightly past her prime.


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## Etherborn (Sep 19, 2020)

*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Corax (Sep 19, 2020)

I used to say admirals vs BM high diff for admirals or so. But due to ridiculous lvl. of trolling and negative feats given to her by Oda himself I have changed my opinion. Akainu mid. diff her (upper mid. diff).

Reactions: Like 1


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## convict (Sep 19, 2020)

Let us see her super durability come out on top against a magma fist to the chest. On strict power level terms she may even be slightly stronger, but intelligence is also a factor in a fight. I can’t see it going any other way than Red Dawg extreme diff. He’ll have to work to take her down sure.


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## JustSumGuy (Sep 20, 2020)

Imagine Oda making Akainu look like a fool every chance he got.


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## Mercurial (Sep 20, 2020)

I can't see how a single person who is not brain dead could not firmly vote for Akainu

His feats >> Big Mom

His portrayal >>> Big Mom

She tanks, he is lethal. She hits hard, he has unbelievable endurance. She is a fighting idiot, he is a tough bastard.

Admirals ~ Yonko
Strongest Admiral >> Weakest Yonko

Reactions: Like 1


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## oiety (Sep 20, 2020)

extreme diff or draw, anything else is cope.


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## savior2005 (Sep 20, 2020)

Akainu high-extreme diff. You ppl are crazy if you think Oda will have Akainu be weaker than Big mom.

And for those who bring up old WB defeating Akainu, he'd do the same to all the other Yonko if he landed the sneak quake punch to the back of any of their unsuspecting head's from behind. Whether fiction or nonfiction, an attack that you don't see coming hurts a lot more than the ones you do see coming, and is much more damaging.


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## JustSumGuy (Sep 20, 2020)

People don’t remember that in that scuffle, Akainu effectively killed WB when he tore off half his face. WB was on borrowed time from that point on and BB just swooped in and took the kill.


Unless you think WB could’ve kept on living with half a brain.

Reactions: Like 1


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## VileNotice (Sep 21, 2020)

Imo Sakazuki is now firmly above the current admirals by at least a half step. He and Kuzan both grew from their fight, and out of the two he was not only slightly stronger during the fight but he grew more from winning than Kuzan did from losing. And at MF he was already pretty deadly to WB. 

In any case he beats BM for sure unless they’re on the shoreline and she drowns him with some water homie or something. Not only will his unparalleled offense get through her skin but Prometheus is useless against him. I put him slightly above her in a vacuum but he also has the matchup advantage, so I say high diff.

This coming from a Linlin fan.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sherlōck (Sep 21, 2020)

Only Yonko fans are deluded enough to vote for Meme after the terrible showings she showed since her introduction.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 21, 2020)

Logia Admirals are quite literally hard countered by the Soul Soul Fruit. For those saying that Prometheus can't do anything to Akainu, Akainu can't do anything to a Magma Homie which would shut down much of his offense. In a close combat brawl (Akainu is a Brawler), she bullies him. 

A better fight would be restricting Linlin's devil fruit because with that, she beats him rather handily. 

She wins Without Devil Fruit High Diff
With her Devil Fruit, She Mid Diffs

Reactions: Like 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 21, 2020)

VileNotice said:


> Imo Sakazuki is now firmly above the current admirals by at least a half step. He and Kuzan both grew from their fight, and out of the two he was not only slightly stronger during the fight but he grew more from winning than Kuzan did from losing. And at MF he was already pretty deadly to WB.
> 
> In any case he beats BM for sure unless they’re on the shoreline and she drowns him with some water homie or something. Not only will his unparalleled offense get through her skin but Prometheus is useless against him. I put him slightly above her in a vacuum but he also has the matchup advantage, so I say high diff.
> 
> This coming from a Linlin fan.



"unparalleled offense'
 Curiel Says Hi 

We have fodder from MF who ate Magma attacks and came out unscarred don't even go with the bullshit. 

What stops her from making a Magma Homie and imbuing it into her fists with Haki and punching a Hole in Akainu with his "unparalleled offense?" 

The Soul Soul Fruit is quite literally a counter to any devil fruit that produces a substance. She makes a homie out of it and negates his offense.

Reactions: Like 1


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## VileNotice (Sep 21, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Logia Admirals are quite literally hard countered by the Soul Soul Fruit. For those saying that Prometheus can't do anything to Akainu, Akainu can't do anything to a Magma Homie which would shut down much of his offense. In a close combat brawl (Akainu is a Brawler), she bullies him.
> 
> A better fight would be restricting Linlin's devil fruit because with that, she beats him rather handily.
> 
> ...


You can’t make a homie out of a human. Logia users _are _their element.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 21, 2020)

VileNotice said:


> You can’t make a homie out of a human. Logia users _are _their element.


He creates Magma. She turns that Magma into a homie.


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## VileNotice (Sep 21, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> "unparalleled offense'
> Curiel Says Hi


Do I need to direct you to the data book that says his fruit has the highest offense of all fruits? Even if you don’t believe that, he melted off Whitebeard’s face. That’s getting past BM’s skin.



RossellaFiamingo said:


> He creates Magma. She turns that Magma into a homie.


She was getting harassed by Jinbe’s water pellets and didn’t turn them into homies. She can’t just use her fruit to negate all oncoming attacks. And if it’s still attached to his body, she can’t do anything to it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 21, 2020)

VileNotice said:


> Do I need to direct you to the data book that says his fruit has the highest offense of all fruits? Even if you don’t believe that, he melted off Whitebeard’s face. That’s getting past BM’s skin.
> 
> 
> She was getting harassed by Jinbe’s water pellets and didn’t turn them into homies. She can’t just use her fruit to negate all oncoming attacks. And if it’s still attached to his body, she can’t do anything to it.



Are you actually comparing a Deathbeard WB who can't use haki's durability to Big Mom who has not been damaged on or off panel when shes in her right mental state? Listen she took a super powered lightning attack (Goro Goro Level) and came out with out any damage. She eats canon fire with no damage. WB was getting stabbed by fodder for crying out loud. The burden of proof is on you to show that he can damage her because as far as we know by Manga Gospel, when she's not going crazy over Mother Caramel's picture, she' has not been damaged.

And why are you bringing up water when we know that water is a counter to devil fruit users? It's unlikely she can make a homie out of water if she could, the fruit would be even more broken than it already is.

Homies she makes can interact heavily with the element they're made out of even with the candy homie she made interacting with water and using it to create a Tsunami. We see when Akainu turns his body into Magma. It leaks everywhere. If he wants a chance at even winning, he'll have to use AOE attacks and separate them from himself and at that point, she would have made a homie out of it .

When Logia's use their ability, they separate it from their body the moment he does that, she makes a homie out of it and that Homie can freely interact with whatever other Magma attacks he tries to use.

Also that Databook says that his fruit is in a class of fruits with the highest offense. It does not say his fruit alone. There are fruits I can list which have as high or higher offensive potential than the Magu Magu No Mi.

Also Im giving you manga evidence of the so called "highest offensive fruit" not doing a damn thing to fodder who came out of it without any scars and you're providing information from a data book. A databook also says that Marco is Admiral level..


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## VileNotice (Sep 21, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Are you actually comparing a Deathbeard WB who can't use haki's durability to Big Mom who has not been damaged on or off panel when shes in her right mental state? Listen she took a super powered lightning attack (Goro Goro Level) and came out with out any damage. She eats canon fire with no damage. WB was getting stabbed by fodder for crying out loud. The burden of proof is on you to show that he can damage her because as far as we know by Manga Gospel, when she's not going crazy over Mother Caramel's picture, she' has not been damaged.
> 
> And why are you bringing up water when we know that water is a counter to devil fruit users? It's unlikely she can make a homie out of water if she could, the fruit would be even more broken than it already is.
> 
> ...


You say she can’t make a homie out of water yet you mention the Tsunami. That’s pretty much a homie made out of water, it is a wave with a face on it. If she can just mix an existing homie with water I don’t see how that’s much different from turning the water into a homie on its own. She couldn’t do anything to Jinbe’s attack because it was flying at her. 

As for her skin, yeah it’s tough. But you can’t tell me the ultimate offensive DF plus advanced haki in the hands of a top tier is gonna bounce right off. Why did she coat her arms with haki against G4 Luffy? Clearly they needed to break the picture so the missiles could break her skin and poison her, but top tiers can hurt her. Unless you’re suggesting she’s in a tier of her own due to infinite defense.

As for homifying logia attacks, show me where creating a homie stops the momentum of whatever object she targets. If Akainu is hitting her with Meigo his arm is coated with smoking magma as he thrusts it forward. Even if she was somehow able to turn the very magma on his arm into a homie as it’s coming at her, it would still hit because it’s still hurtling towards her. She’s not immune to her homies, she just controls them.


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## Corax (Sep 21, 2020)

BM can be damaged. She fell from QMC took brain damage  and lost her memories. She took brain damage from Queen's attack and regained them. She was burned by Zeus attack on Sunny,her body had clear burn marks and she screamed in pain. Also she was very slightly bruised by Franky's bike. Already 4 occasions.

Reactions: Like 3


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## GreenBull956 (Sep 21, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> Only Yonko fans are deluded enough to vote for Meme after the terrible showings she showed since her introduction.


her only saving grace is her portrayal of being likened to Kaido 

but even then it's more likely she's the number 11th with all her horror portrayal , while still being close ( high-extreme diff ) to Kaido

Reactions: Like 3


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## Bobybobster (Sep 21, 2020)

big meme's terrible showings (she is more of a comic relief at this point) leads me to believe akainu beats her handily, high diff probably.


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## lastkiller (Sep 21, 2020)

Oh yeah..and Akainu can beat Shanks too huh...yeah since Shanks is the weakest yonko and Akainu is already clapping Mama according to you squad...then it’s a wrap


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## MO (Sep 21, 2020)

Big Mom ofc. Akainu got taken down in 2 hits by a yonko.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Zero (Sep 21, 2020)

MO said:


> Big Mom ofc. Akainu got taken down in 2 hits by a yonko.


An enraged Whitebeard quakes Akainu in the head off guard and gets half his head blown off and Akainu is the loser?????

Reactions: Like 1


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## lastkiller (Sep 21, 2020)

Zero said:


> An enraged Whitebeard quakes Akainu in the head off guard and gets half his head blown off and Akainu is the loser?????


Yeah Akainu is the loser...he gets quaked at the end in his ribs and is off panel crying over his wounds and shows up chapters later......oh and *quarter of his head not half....


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## lastkiller (Sep 21, 2020)

Zero said:


> An enraged Whitebeard quakes Akainu in the head off guard and gets half his head blown off and Akainu is the loser?????


quarter not half...half means his nose will be affected since midline of face passes through the nose ...check picture cuh


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## Bobybobster (Sep 21, 2020)

not a great comparison since whitebeard has shown greater destructive capability than any other yonkou, even with his "casual" quakes


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## Zero (Sep 21, 2020)

lastkiller said:


> Yeah Akainu is the loser...he gets quaked at the end in his ribs and is off panel crying over his wounds and shows up chapters later......oh and *quarter of his head not half....


He was still living off a time limit regardless how much of his head was gone.
Can't live without yo brain! Akainu won.

Reactions: Like 1


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## lastkiller (Sep 21, 2020)

Zero said:


> He was still living off a time limit regardless how much of his head was gone.
> Can't live without yo brain! Akainu won.


Yale yale so he lost the BATTLE but won the WAR...alright cuh...doshtebakimono


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## Beast (Sep 21, 2020)

lastkiller said:


> quarter not half...half means his nose will be affected since midline of face passes through the nose ...check picture cuh


Since you want to be so technical, why not tell the full truth... it’s at least a third of his face not a quarter.

Reactions: Like 1


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## lastkiller (Sep 21, 2020)

Beast said:


> Since you want to be so technical, why not tell the full truth... it’s at least a third of his face not a quarter.


Yale yale ...check the picture carefully bra...it’s quarter not a third of his face....but if you insist...then okay whatever...doshtebakimono


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## Matta Clatta (Sep 21, 2020)

Big Mom isn't getting beat by weak ass magma that would be countered by her DF 
Akainu was getting quaked into oblivion by WB who wasn't even using Haki. Big Mom is going to be even worse 

Mid dif

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## Great Potato (Sep 21, 2020)

lastkiller said:


> Yeah Akainu is the loser...he gets quaked at the end in his ribs and is off panel crying over his wounds and *shows up chapters later.*.....oh and *quarter of his head not half....



Akainu got quaked in chapter 575 and was back on the battlefield in chapter 577, he only missed a single chapter. If Big Mom doesn't make it back in the next chapter of Wano then Akainu will have returned in fewer chapters from Whitebeard's quake than Big Mom did from Jinbe and Robin rolling her away.

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## Bobybobster (Sep 21, 2020)

wb knocks down akainu into a chasm, man turns up 2 chapters later 

whereas king knocks meme off a waterfall and...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strobacaxi (Sep 21, 2020)

Zero said:


> He was still living off a time limit regardless how much of his head was gone.
> Can't live without yo brain! Akainu won.


By that time WB had decided he was gonna die there, he didn't bother dodging or blocking anything. And this is a barely able to use haki 2 heart attacks, with a hole in his chest Whitebeard, don't tell me he was remotely close to BM or Kaidou at that point anymore

Truth is very simple. If admirals were as strong as Yonkou, there wouldn't be any yonkous because 3 admirals would be dispatched to each of their bases and the yonkous would be killed long time ago.

The admirals are stronger than the FMs, but slightly weaker than Yonkous. But still, sufficiently weaker than they can't guarantee that 3 admirals can handle 1 Yonkou + crew. This means that 2 admirals are not guaranteed to be able to beat the YCs before the other admiral gets beaten by the Yonkou


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## Zero (Sep 21, 2020)

Strobacaxi said:


> By that time WB had decided he was gonna die there, he didn't bother dodging or blocking anything. And this is a barely able to use haki 2 heart attacks, with a hole in his chest Whitebeard, don't tell me he was remotely close to BM or Kaidou at that point anymore


I think at that moment he was close to Kaido and Big Mom.
He was enraged from the death of Ace and was going all out, there was no holding back behind those punches. And Akainu was able to get back up from the 1st attack and attack him. Then returned to fight a chapter or two later.


Strobacaxi said:


> Truth is very simple. If admirals were as strong as Yonkou, there wouldn't be any yonkous because 3 admirals would be dispatched to each of their bases and the yonkous would be killed long time ago.


 I don't know about that...the Yonkos have really huge crews and even if they dispatched an Admiral to each of them it'd be a great battle but they'd lose due to their strong first mates and pirates. The Marines' vice admirals are pretty weak with the exception of Garp. That's why the Marines had the Shichibukai to balance out that difference right? So even though the Admirals can be in the same tier or roughly equal to the Yonkos I don't think it would be wise to just attack the Yonkos...for example like when Kizaru wanted to go to Wano to encounter Big Mom and Kaido, he may have been confident in his power to fight a Yonko but it wouldn't be a wise decision to do so that's why Akainu suggested not to go. 

Akainu seems more impressive in my opinion.


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## VileNotice (Sep 21, 2020)

Strobacaxi said:


> By that time WB had decided he was gonna die there, he didn't bother dodging or blocking anything. And this is a barely able to use haki 2 heart attacks, with a hole in his chest Whitebeard, don't tell me he was remotely close to BM or Kaidou at that point anymore
> 
> Truth is very simple. If admirals were as strong as Yonkou, there wouldn't be any yonkous because 3 admirals would be dispatched to each of their bases and the yonkous would be killed long time ago.
> 
> The admirals are stronger than the FMs, but slightly weaker than Yonkous. But still, sufficiently weaker than they can't guarantee that 3 admirals can handle 1 Yonkou + crew. This means that 2 admirals are not guaranteed to be able to beat the YCs before the other admiral gets beaten by the Yonkou


Akainu is probably stronger than the other admirals and on par with the Yonko though. We know for a fact he had a 10-day extreme diff fight against Aokiji, that's the kind of fight that makes you stronger in One Piece. Whereas someone like Big Mom hasn't had a fight in years before Luffy showed up at her doorstep. I also think that the current three admirals are weaker than the Yonko but it is veeery slight. Probably the three of them plus VA backup could take on a single Yonko crew and win but at least one and possibly two admirals would die in the process, which would make it easy for the remaining Yonko to wreak more havoc around the world or even attack the WG directly.

Plus as Garp said himself, the Yonko are one of the three great powers, and the Marines weren't really interested in disturbing that balance until shit went down recently.


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## Great Potato (Sep 21, 2020)

Strobacaxi said:


> By that time WB had decided he was gonna die there, he didn't bother dodging or blocking anything. And this is a barely able to use haki 2 heart attacks, with a hole in his chest Whitebeard, don't tell me he was remotely close to BM or Kaidou at that point anymore
> 
> Truth is very simple. If admirals were as strong as Yonkou, there wouldn't be any yonkous because 3 admirals would be dispatched to each of their bases and the yonkous would be killed long time ago.
> 
> The admirals are stronger than the FMs, but slightly weaker than Yonkous. But still, sufficiently weaker than they can't guarantee that 3 admirals can handle 1 Yonkou + crew. This means that 2 admirals are not guaranteed to be able to beat the YCs before the other admiral gets beaten by the Yonkou



This implies that the other three Yonko and Revolutionary Army would just sit around and do nothing as the Marines launch a full scale attacks on Emperor territories to pick them off one by one, which we know is not the case. The Marines couldn't even battle Whitebeard on their own turf without Kaido, Shanks, and Blackbeard all making moves to interfere.

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## Steven (Sep 21, 2020)

Zero said:


> An enraged Whitebeard quakes Akainu in the head off guard and gets half his head blown off and Akainu is the loser?????


Akainu was unable to move and Plotarmor saved his ass

So yes,Akainu got twoshotted by WB

And being able to hurt MF WB is not a good feat.He is not a Durafreak as BM or Kaido


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## Zero (Sep 21, 2020)

Acno said:


> Akainu was unable to move and Plotarmor saved his ass
> 
> So yes,Akainu got twoshotted by WB
> 
> And being able to hurt MF WB is not a good feat.He is not a Durafreak as BM or Kaido


"not a good feat"
He's the worlds strongest man.........
You mention plot armor saving Akainu, but don't acknowledge plot armor keeping Whitebeard alive haha.


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## Corax (Sep 22, 2020)

WB was saved by plot stupidity clearly. Akainu targeted his chest (just after his heart attack) and left him at fodders mercy. This is clear PIS,since it isn't in character for Akainu to spare his opponents. Also it is illogical to target opponents chest,if you can target his head instead.


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## YellowCosmos (Sep 22, 2020)

Acno said:


> Akainu was unable to move



Evidence for Akainu being unable to move? He fell into a ravine whose bottom was flooded by seawater. If he was unable to move, he would have died.


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## Fel1x (Sep 22, 2020)

only very delusional people think Akainu has a chance against BM

she very comfortably and casually mid diffs. the only problem might be catching him or finding where is he hiding (like when he hided underground against dead WB)

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## Beast (Sep 22, 2020)

lastkiller said:


> Yale yale ...check the picture carefully bra...it’s quarter not a third of his face....but if you insist...then okay whatever...doshtebakimono


Measure it... it should 33.34% of his face.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lyren (Sep 22, 2020)

Big mom wins. Yonko are portrayed above admirals but Akainu is the closest admiral to their lvl so he can likely give a high difficulty fight to Big mom at most

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Flame (Sep 22, 2020)

2020 and people still doubt the admirals' superiority  

BM loses. Most likely in a ridiculous way as always.


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## Lyren (Sep 22, 2020)

Also Big Mom is physically stronger than old sick WB who handed Akainus ass to him, he cant tank much of her hits for sure

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Fel1x (Sep 22, 2020)

Big mom: 68 yo and not a single wound, scar all her life. even when Rox fought Roger's crew+Garp with marines. Roger was scared to fight her, confirmed by Ace novel and manga. strongest person ever (Kaido) was stalemated against her in direct fight

Akainu: giant scars, PTSD from Gura, took the biggest L in the series so far against dead Yonko, hided like a scared dog underground until WB was dead for good, his biggest feat in EoS will be giving Sabo extreme diff fight before Sabo kills him

stomp thread


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## GreenBull956 (Sep 22, 2020)

Lyren said:


> Also Big Mom is physically stronger than old sick WB who handed Akainus ass to him, he cant tank much of her hits for sure




Whitebeard didn't use only Physical Strength , he used Physical Strength + Armament Haki + Quakes to strike Akainu from behind


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## Lyren (Sep 22, 2020)

GreenBull956 said:


> Whitebeard didn't use only Physical Strength , he used Physical Strength + Armament Haki + Quakes to strike Akainu from behind


So what ? 
Its not like I said she will one shot him like WB did but few hits will get the job done


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## GreenBull956 (Sep 22, 2020)

Lyren said:


> So what ?
> Its not like I said she will one shot him like WB did but few hits will get the job done


i was under the impression that you thought WB only used his Physical Strength on Akainu , and since Big Mom's physically stronger than that WB , Akainu wouldn't endure much of her physical hits


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## lastkiller (Sep 22, 2020)

Beast said:


> Measure it... it should 33.34% of his face.


Yale yale...yamete kudosai


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## Sloan (Sep 22, 2020)

Lyren said:


> Also Big Mom is physically stronger than old sick WB who handed Akainus ass to him, he cant tank much of her hits for sure



I feel like WB's Gura-Gura dwarfs Big Mom's physical strength.  A punch from Big Mom isn't doing the same level of damage that WB's Gura's did.  It's better to compare attacks like Ikkoku(That slash from last chapter) to WB's Gura attacks that immobilized Akainu for some moments imo.

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## Strobacaxi (Sep 22, 2020)

Sloan said:


> I feel like WB's Gura-Gura dwarfs Big Mom's physical strength.  A punch from Big Mom isn't doing the same level of damage that WB's Gura's did.  It's better to compare attacks like Ikkoku(That slash from last chapter) to WB's Gura attacks that immobilized Akainu for some moments imo.


Air slashes are feats of physical strength.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lyren (Sep 22, 2020)

Sloan said:


> I feel like WB's Gura-Gura dwarfs Big Mom's physical strength.  A punch from Big Mom isn't doing the same level of damage that WB's Gura's did.  It's better to compare attacks like Ikkoku(That slash from last chapter) to WB's Gura attacks that immobilized Akainu for some moments imo.


Im not saying it does
If WB needs to connect only 1-2 gura punches to badly injure Akainu, BM is gonna replicate the same feat but with more attacks though. Thats the point i'm trying to make
Also if anyhing, Ikkoku is a testament to Big Mom physical might too


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## Corax (Sep 22, 2020)

I doubt what she can even hit Akainu. She missed Jinbei several times (very huge and bulky opponent). She missed base Luffy (who is nothing special without gears). Even Usopp/Chopper ran away from her. Also Franky blitzed her on a random bike. Brook is at least marginally fast,so his blitzes are understandable.


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## Sloan (Sep 22, 2020)

Lyren said:


> Im not saying it does
> If WB needs to connect only 1-2 gura punches to badly injure Akainu, BM is gonna replicate the same feat but with more attacks though. Thats the point i'm trying to make
> Also if anyhing, Ikkoku is a testament to Big Mom physical might too



How would she replicate the same feat though in this fight?  WB did that because he blind sided Akainu while Akainu was facing towards Marco and Vista.  Through out their interactions during the war Akainu canceled out WB's Gura's with his Magma Punches multiple times.  If he can do that than canceling out Big Mom's attacks as well shouldn't be a stretch.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Sloan (Sep 22, 2020)

Strobacaxi said:


> Air slashes are feats of physical strength.



Is her sword a regular sword or one of the 52 ones?  That could play a part but yea you probably need a lot of physical strength for an air slash on that level.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lyren (Sep 22, 2020)

Sloan said:


> How would she replicate the same feat though in this fight?  WB did that because he blind sided Akainu while Akainu was facing towards Marco and Vista.  Through out their interactions during the war Akainu canceled out WB's Gura's with his Magma Punches multiple times.  If he can do that than canceling out Big Mom's attacks as well shouldn't be a stretch.


Since BM can arguably turn his magma into a lava hommie, Akainu will be inclined to fight her from close range and in base and given that she has 2 other hommies alongside her she will eventually exploit an opnening and badly injure him while he is distracted by Zeus and Prometheus. Akainu wont have the physical edge either here anyway. It wont be easy at all for big mom ofc but she will sooner or later overwhelm him

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strobacaxi (Sep 22, 2020)

Corax said:


> I doubt what she can even hit Akainu. She missed Jinbei several times (very huge and bulky opponent). She missed base Luffy (who is nothing special without gears). Even Usopp/Chopper ran away from her. Also Franky blitzed her on a random bike. Brook is at least marginally fast,so his blitzes are understandable.


She fought Kaidou for a day. Kaidou blitzed G4 Luffy. She can obviously hit Akainu.
Just because plot demands she can't touch the SHs because if she does, she kills them, doesn't mean she can't touch them.



Sloan said:


> Is her sword a regular sword or one of the 52 ones? That could play a part but yea you probably need a lot of physical strength for an air slash on that level.


TBH I've always somehow assumed it was just a regular sword she put her soul into but I never actually thought about it...
Also, would adding her soul make the sword better?


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## Corax (Sep 22, 2020)

Strobacaxi said:


> She fought Kaidou for a day. Kaidou blitzed G4 Luffy. She can obviously hit Akainu.
> Just because plot demands she can't touch the SHs because if she does, she kills them, doesn't mean she can't touch them.
> 
> 
> ...


Chopper chose to block one of her hits,so did Jinbei. It isn't like she wasn't allowed to touch them at all. Just unable to hit them or even was blitzed by some.


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## VileNotice (Sep 22, 2020)

Lyren said:


> Since BM can arguably turn his magma into a lava hommie, Akainu will be inclined to fight her from close range and in base and given that she has 2 other hommies alongside her she will eventually exploit an opnening and badly injure him while he is distracted by Zeus and *Prometheus*. Akainu wont have the physical edge either here anyway. It wont be easy at all for big mom ofc but she will sooner or later overwhelm him



Prometheus does nothing to Akainu first of all. And if she's smart she'll be using Zeus to fly around on to avoid eruptions so I don't think he will be the biggest offensive weapon either.

Second of all how exactly does Big Mom turn this



or this



into a homie? He's punching while turning his own arm into magma. Soul fruit does not affect humans. It's probably a counter against his awakening, but he'll be able to fight her from close and mid range while using his fruit.


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## Turrin (Sep 22, 2020)

Akainu Mid/High diff unless BM has a shit ton of homies in which case it may change things


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## Lyren (Sep 22, 2020)

VileNotice said:


> Prometheus does nothing to Akainu first of all. And if she's smart she'll be using Zeus to fly around on to avoid eruptions so I don't think he will be the biggest offensive weapon either.
> 
> Second of all how exactly does Big Mom turn this
> 
> ...


Prometheus may not do significant damage to Akainu but alongside Zeus they have the necessary firepower to at least create a diversion IMO

As for CQC you're right, he can still use this kind of attacks when trading blows with her.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Sloan (Sep 22, 2020)

Lyren said:


> Since BM can arguably turn his magma into a lava hommie, Akainu will be inclined to fight her from close range and in base and given that she has 2 other hommies alongside her she will eventually exploit an opnening and badly injure him while he is distracted by Zeus and Prometheus. Akainu wont have the physical edge either here anyway. It wont be easy at all for big mom ofc but she will sooner or later overwhelm him



In the same way that Akainu doesn't have the edge in physical strength I'm not sure a Magma homie would be much useful against Akainu, the Magma man himself.  Using the other two homies to cause a distraction is a decent idea though I don't see Promotheus being any more useful than the Magma homie, maybe even less.  Zeus is probably her best option.  



Strobacaxi said:


> TBH I've always somehow assumed it was just a regular sword she put her soul into but I never actually thought about it...
> Also, would adding her soul make the sword better?



I'm not sure myself tbh.


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## Strobacaxi (Sep 22, 2020)

Corax said:


> Chopper chose to block one of her hits,so did Jinbei. It isn't like she wasn't allowed to touch them at all. Just unable to hit them or even was blitzed by some.



Chopper didn't block a hit, he blocked a grab lol. And Jimbei is one of the few people who can actually be hit by her because he's YC level.

I'll be waiting for you to explain how exactly someone who gets blocked by Chopper and blitzed by weak SHs can keep up with Kaidou for a whole day.

Reactions: Like 1


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## VileNotice (Sep 22, 2020)

Strobacaxi said:


> Chopper didn't block a hit, he blocked a grab lol. And Jimbei is one of the few people who can actually be hit by her because he's YC level.
> 
> I'll be waiting for you to explain how exactly someone who gets blocked by Chopper and blitzed by weak SHs can keep up with Kaidou for a whole day.


She was just fed and not having one of her cravings, seems simple enough. Full stomach/mentally stable BM + Napoleon = base Kaido.


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## Fel1x (Sep 22, 2020)

its kinda great that most of the forum agrees about BM's pure superiority as per canon


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## Sloan (Sep 22, 2020)

Added a poll.


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## Captain Altintop (Sep 23, 2020)

How can Big Mum still have above 10% of votings ? It should be 100% in favor of Akainu tbh. 

Some people think Big Mum beating Akainu is the funniest thing I've ever seen here.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 23, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> BM's pure superiority as per canon



*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beast (Sep 23, 2020)

The same homie Brook 1HKO’d is gonna stall big bad boy Akainu... yonkoset is tripping.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sherlōck (Sep 23, 2020)

[HASHTAG]#YonkoSet[/HASHTAG] needs to admit in mental hospital.


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## DavyChan (Sep 23, 2020)

If Kaido beats Akainu then so does Big Mom. Big Mom = Kaido.


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## cry77 (Sep 23, 2020)

No way Oda would write Akainu losing to BM. 

Akainu high diff.


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## Light D Lamperouge (Sep 28, 2020)

Akainu bodybags.

Linlin, on her own accord, used hardening, used her immense body weight, leaned forward thus putting the said body weight in use to produce a counter force to the force of WCI Luffy's punch and her arm rattled. So, Linlin used counter force and another layer of protection on top of the counter force to match Luffy's punch, and her arm rattled still. Take note that Luffy's punches are in no way lethal, as it is the blunt physical force behind them. So Linlin used her own physical force and a layer of haki and leaned forward in a more advantageous position to have her arm rattle from a punch from WCI Luffy, that is pure physical force and not lethal.


What happens when she gets punched by Akainu? Someone who has more potency behind his attack than WCI Luffy, as he was able to match WB's gura punches

and as an Admiral, and a certified top tier, has better physical stats. On top of having more attack potency  behind his punch than WCI Luffy, Akainu also packs something Luffy lacks (not talking about a brain). Akainu has one of the highest offensive powers when it comes to devil fruits, and one of the most lethal offences in the manga. Akainu's lethality>>>>>>>>>(infinite number of >)> WCI Luffy's lethality, Akainu's attack potency>>>>>WCI Luffy's physical force behind a punch. Linlin's arm, while using a counter force and another layer of protection on top of the aforementioned counter force, was rattled by a purely physical punch from someone far weaker than Akainu, and someone who lacks lethality, something Akainu excels at.

As the initiator, aka the offence, Akainu is far more likely to penetrate the stagnant mass, aka the defense.

Zeus and Prometheus are useless against Akainu. Linlin has never used haki in conjunction with them. Moreover Prometheus is a one shot ready to happen when facing Akainu.

So that leaves Napoleon Linlin against Akainu. Akainu already has better haki feats than Linlin,

and has the on panel haki that can probably hurt Linlin, as Luffy implied it would be enough to pass Kaido's tough scales,
 who has a better dura hype than Linlin, Kaido taking a free fall from 10k meters and takes an onslaught of G4 attacks, without any protection, and ends up being disappointed

*Spoiler*: _KAIDO_ 








vs
Linlin falling from a castle and  leaning forward putting her body-weight in use, uses hardening, counter force, and it still makes her arm rattle after only one G4 attack

*Spoiler*: _LINLIN_ 








and scaling from Kizaru better speed feats as well. In cqc he is more skilled, having been trained in various styles as a marine.

If it's the hurr durr magma homie argument, Akainu can absorb the residue magma around him thus limiting the homie, or limiting the option of creating the homie, or luring it in and thus causing it to betray Linlin, something that already happened in the manga. Akainu should be also able to consume the magma around the homie making it weaker and weaker. Akainu should be able to consume the entire homie into his body and maybe kill him like that.

Akainu got back up from a sneak punch from the WSM, enraged sneak punch from someone hyped to possess the power to destroy the world.
The first punch landed by surprise, yet Akainu got back up immediately, launched a counterattack and melted half of WB's face

*Spoiler*: __ 










and not even that could stop him, as evident here and explained

What's Linlin's offence going to do to him? A very limited offence as well. This is enraged Linlin using haki

Not even in the same league as an enraged gura punch from the back by the WSM.
Jimbei was tossing her around like a bowling ball.

And welcoming an attempt to kill him. Basically taunting her.

The same Jimbei that knew he could only buy time before he dies to Akainu

*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Like 6


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## GreenBull956 (Sep 28, 2020)

i see Akainu high diffing BM if she wasn't in disadvantage .

with disadvantage ( Prometheus not working on Akainu , and potentially Zeus and Prometheus as Clouds evaporating against extreme heat ) i see Akainu winning mid diff .

some said that , Akainu could be in disadvantage as well , because Big Mom can create a Homie out of Akainu's Magma , but to create a powerful Homie like Zeus/Prom/Napo , she needs a piece of her own soul , and it's unknown if she still can take it

the last time we saw her creating homies here in Onigashima , they were likely made of random fodders souls , considering they ended up getting negged by Nami and Carrot . unless you think Big Mom's soul is that weak


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## JustSumGuy (Sep 28, 2020)

If Oda had to write it, do you guys honestly think Big Mom would beat Akainu?

Their in two separate tiers when it comes to antagonists in this series.


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## Zero (Sep 28, 2020)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Akainu bodybags.
> 
> Linlin, on her own accord, used hardening, used her immense body weight, leaned forward thus putting the said body weight in use to produce a counter force to the force of WCI Luffy's punch and her arm rattled. So, Linlin used counter force and another layer of protection on top of the counter force to match Luffy's punch, and her arm rattled still. Take note that Luffy's punches are in no way lethal, as it is the blunt physical force behind them. So Linlin used her own physical force and a layer of haki and leaned forward in a more advantageous position to have her arm rattle from a punch from WCI Luffy, that is pure physical force and not lethal.
> 
> ...


Would you say Aokiji could also defeat Big Mom considering he’s basically an equal to Akainu? Not sure if he’d have the same feats as Akainu going up against Whitebeard though, but he did manage to outplay him and avoid getting stabbed by his Bisento until Jozu Inteferred.


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 29, 2020)

Beast said:


> Measure it... it should 33.34% of his face.


 @B Rabbit pixel scale this muahaha



Daisuke Jigen said:


> *Spoiler*: __


 all of tthis is far worse than mihawk's worst feats


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## GreenBull956 (Sep 29, 2020)

Daisuke Jigen said:


> *Spoiler*: __


you forgot to post this glorious part :
​

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Sep 29, 2020)

Sloan said:


> Location: Doffy Vs Luffy
> Distance: 5 Meters
> Mind set: IC
> Knowledge: Rep+Manga
> Restrictions: None


BM makes a lava homie and the rest is history!


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## Ren. (Sep 29, 2020)

Beast said:


> Since you want to be so technical, why not tell the full truth... it’s at least a third of his face not a quarter.





xmysticgohanx said:


> @B Rabbit pixel scale this muahaha




WTF are you guys talking the face is the front part, Do you guys see his left eye, well then check where you eyes is on the face.

Also again, Akainu was fresh ... WB was almost dead.

Prime WB mids his Ass :


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## Red Admiral (Sep 29, 2020)

Big Mom is equal to Kaido ... it's a fact stated in wano OVER 10 TIMES

​

fight equally with Kaido and take no scars
never took any damage in her life while being an active pirate for +60 years in 3 eras
DF + super human power + super weapons + Haki
Big Mom > her crew is a fact
Big Mom neg diff a YC2 with no Haki , Df and Weapon

so yup ... Oda is trolling Big Mom ... cause if she be 100% ... there is not gonna be any story left ... just dead straw hats
compare this to Akainu Vs fucked beard
and you see this two are not even playing the same game ...


Big Mom high diff if not less


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 29, 2020)

Got a guy in here false flagging about being a Big Mom fan while downplaying her 
@VileNotice  Thats you btw

Like I said she wins At Low High Difficulty if not less. Using PIS where she isn't allowed to touch the SH is disingenuous.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 29, 2020)

Revenge ratings are against the rules  
Take my tier specialists to the heart because they come from my heart

Reactions: Like 2


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## Light D Lamperouge (Sep 29, 2020)

Zero said:


> Would you say Aokiji could also defeat Big Mom considering he’s basically an equal to Akainu? Not sure if he’d have the same feats as Akainu going up against Whitebeard though, but he did manage to outplay him and avoid getting stabbed by his Bisento until Jozu Inteferred.


Sorry for the late response lol. Yeah I think Aokiji can dunk on Linlin too. Though, to be fair he'd have a harder time because of Prometheus. Though, he stalemated Akainu's fruit so it might not be that hard. But yeah he beats her too.

Reactions: Like 2


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## VileNotice (Sep 29, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Got a guy in here false flagging about being a Big Mom fan while downplaying her
> @VileNotice  Thats you btw
> 
> Like I said she wins At Low High Difficulty if not less. Using PIS where she isn't allowed to touch the SH is disingenuous.


I like the potential that Linlin had as a character, and the main reason I’ve disliked Wano is how Oda has trashed her and her crew for no reason. But manga facts are facts, she has horrible portrayal and Akainu is a good matchup against her (I don’t buy her fruit being a counter against logias until I see something to that effect). I do think she is on the same general level as Akainu though, and both are above the current admiral trio.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Sep 29, 2020)

Akainu, all day every day. I'm still expecting him to be the one to defeat Big Mom in canon.


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## Mr. Good vibes (Sep 29, 2020)

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell a magma homie supposed to eve do to a man made of magma. Hurt him lol? Overpower him? Is BM suppose to somehow turn Akainu into a homie and call it a day? Someone going to have to explain the logic BM fans like to use when comes to c3 as if making a homie if their element equals gg as if somehow BM can create an admiral level homie when her own personal homies are barely high tier on their own.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MO (Sep 29, 2020)

Zero said:


> An enraged Whitebeard quakes Akainu in the head off guard and gets half his head blown off and Akainu is the loser?????


considering whitebeard was still standing and continued and akainu couldn't muster the strenght stop himself from faling into a hole, yes, yes he is the loser.


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## Yumi Zoro (Sep 29, 2020)

MO said:


> considering whitebeard was still standing and continued and akainu couldn't muster the strenght stop himself from faling into a hole, yes, yes he is the loser.



Akainu the loser, survived Whitebeard's deadly attack, come back to hurt Luffy and Jimbei while stomping the Whitebeard pirates allong Crocodiles.

If this is what it mean to be a loser, then I better become one.


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## Zero (Sep 29, 2020)

MO said:


> considering whitebeard was still standing and continued and akainu couldn't muster the strenght stop himself from faling into a hole, yes, yes he is the loser.


If you look at it that way sure...but in terms of a battle no.
It was a sneak attack.


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## MO (Sep 29, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> Akainu the loser, survived Whitebeard's deadly attack, come back to hurt Luffy and Jimbei while stomping the Whitebeard pirates allong Crocodiles.
> 
> If this is what it mean to be a loser, then I better become one.


stomping is quite a reach considering he had the help of half of the marines and yet the only person of note he actually managed to beat is curiel and curiel still survived.


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## Yumi Zoro (Sep 29, 2020)

Na, Akainu did it alone, not with the help of some marines. Even after the deadly attack from Whitebeard, Akainu was still going strong in Marinford.





Actualy it is the contrary, it is because of a marine officier than Akainu failled.

If It was not for kobi who wasted his time, Akainu would have sucessfully kill Luffy before Shanks's arival.


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## savior2005 (Oct 2, 2020)

Wanna clarify two things that keeps being brought up:

1. WB vs Akainu: Whitebeard won the battle, Akainu won the war. Akainu's attack made WB a dead man walking, he probably survived as long as he did through sheer willpower, but he was gonna die no matter what from that attack. We saw two chapters later that Akainu was in good enough shape to take out a couple high tier characters and challenge the remaining WB pirates.

2. Under the circumstances where WB lands a free enraged Quake+Haki hit on the back of an unsuspecting characters head, he probably defeats any character. It's literally an attack to the back of the head from an extremely angry WSM with the strongest DF + top tier haki, and to add to that you don't see it coming. This is also from a WB who gave no fucks about living, he's just gonna wanna beat you till you are dead in his eyes. 

I for one am not a part of this shitshow Admiral vs Yonko fanboy crap on this forum. I believe any one can give the other a high diff battle. It just makes sense for the most powerful Admiral (likely Akainu) to be stronger by the weakest or among the weakest Yonko Big Mom. It would still be a high-extreme diff win for him.


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## Red Admiral (Oct 2, 2020)

savior2005 said:


> Wanna clarify two things that keeps being brought up:
> 
> 1. WB vs Akainu: Whitebeard won the battle, Akainu won the war. Akainu's attack made WB a dead man walking, he probably survived as long as he did through sheer willpower, but he was gonna die no matter what from that attack. We saw two chapters later that Akainu was in good enough shape to take out a couple high tier characters and challenge the remaining WB pirates.
> 
> ...



fair post .... but
if you think Kaido can beat Akainu there is no reason to assume Big mom can't
story could not be more clear about Kaido = Big Mom like we been told and we saw they are equal 10 or 20 times by now !!

Big Mom is not weakest Yonko ... for now Teach is ....


if you judge Big Mom when she is a monster that she is .... her feats are stupidly good ...
but do his jokes with her cause if she be all out ... there story was over 100 chapters ago


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## savior2005 (Oct 2, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> fair post .... but
> if you think Kaido can beat Akainu there is no reason to assume Big mom can't
> story could not be more clear about Kaido = Big Mom like we been told and we saw they are equal 10 or 20 times by now !!
> 
> ...


I think Kaido is currently the strongest Yonko, and I also think he can defeat Big mom eventually (10+ day battle, it would be similar to Akainu vs Aokiji, in the sense that it would take a long time and it would be a high-extreme diff win.
I agree that Teach is likely the weakest Yonko, but even he right now should be able to give the strongest Yonko a high-extreme diff fight.

The gap between them is extremely minuscule. If I had to set numbers for the Admirals and Yonko, it would be something like 98-100 on average, with Kaido being 100, Akainu being 99, Big Mom being 98. They are all essentially equals more or less, but in the end there will be a winner, just like there was eventually a winner when Akainu vs Aokiji. It would just take a long ass time, and the winner would be in nearly as bad shape as the loser. 

I think it also helps that Akainu has a good bit more plot relevance compared to Big Mom. And I want to note that I haven't given up on Big mom like a lot of others, I can actually see her doing something incredible later this arc that maybe causes ppl to forget about her embarrassments.


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## VileNotice (Oct 2, 2020)

savior2005 said:


> I think Kaido is currently the strongest Yonko, and I also think he can defeat Big mom eventually (10+ day battle, it would be similar to Akainu vs Aokiji, in the sense that it would take a long time and it would be a high-extreme diff win.
> I agree that Teach is likely the weakest Yonko, but even he right now should be able to give the strongest Yonko a high-extreme diff fight.
> 
> The gap between them is extremely minuscule. If I had to set numbers for the Admirals and Yonko, it would be something like 98-100 on average, with Kaido being 100, Akainu being 99, Big Mom being 98. They are all essentially equals more or less, but in the end there will be a winner, just like there was eventually a winner when Akainu vs Aokiji. It would just take a long ass time, and the winner would be in nearly as bad shape as the loser.
> ...


It’s not gonna be BM feats that will cause people to forget about her embarrassments, it’ll be if Kaido starts racking them up at a similar rate. Which might actually happen lol.

I also don’t think it takes a genius to figure out that Kaido is at least a bit stronger than Big Mom. They clashed equally when BM didn’t have two of her special homies, which would imply that either 1) she is stronger than him when she has both homies or 2) neither of them were going all out. I personally think option 2 is far more likely — maybe Kaido didn’t use his fruit at all in the skirmish. I think in terms of raw strength with their weapons (Napoleon and the club) and their conqueror’s haki, they are equal. Though Kaido’s offensive boost from his zoan will surpass anything BM has to offer in a 1-v-1, while her fruit is a lot more versatile and useful in general.

That’s not even accounting for Kaido being the WSC, having a higher bounty, coming second in the story, being closer to his prime years, etc.


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## DavyChan (Oct 2, 2020)

how is akainu beating a yonkou. all of the yonkou should be stronger. im not understanding lol


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## Kinjin (Oct 2, 2020)

DavyChan said:


> how is akainu beating a yonkou. all of the yonkou should be stronger. im not understanding lol


Plenty of arguments have been provided in this thread, but okay.

Sakazuki is the *Fleet Admiral *(highest rank within the Marines) with the most lethal/strongest offensive DF (whichever translation you prefer, for me it's just semantics) who also killed the brother of the *main character* in front of him and inflicted a permanent big scar on him. He essentially killed the *World's Strongest Man *as there's no way Whitebeard would have recovered with a hole in his chest and a quarter/half of his face missing. Only top tier to have a confirmed win against another top tier (Kuzan).

It's not always strictly about power levels. The narrative clearly indicates that Sakazuki must be on par if not stronger than the Yonko.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## CrownedEagle (Oct 2, 2020)

Could go either way !


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## DavyChan (Oct 2, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> Plenty of arguments have been provided in this thread, but okay.
> 
> Sakazuki is the *Fleet Admiral *(highest rank within the Marines) with the most lethal/strongest offensive DF (whichever translation you prefer, for me it's just semantics) who also killed the brother of the *main character* in front of him and inflected a permanent big scar on him. He essentially killed the *World's Strongest Man *as there's no way Whitebeard would have recovered with a hole in his chest and a quarter/half of his face missing. Only top tier to have a confirmed win against another top tier (Kuzan).
> 
> It's not always strictly about power levels. The narrative clearly indicates that Sakazuki must be on par if not stronger than the Yonko.



yet he was washed by non-prime whitebeard. If the fleet admiral is supposedly that strong why wasn't Sengoku able to stop whitebeard? Also, the yonkou are yonkou for a reason. They're supposed to be the strongest people alive. Kaido is the strongest man alive supposedly and sees Linlin as his equal.


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## Kinjin (Oct 2, 2020)

DavyChan said:


> yet he was washed by non-prime whitebeard. If the fleet admiral is supposedly that strong why wasn't Sengoku able to stop whitebeard? Also, the yonkou are yonkou for a reason. They're supposed to be the strongest people alive. Kaido is the strongest man alive supposedly and sees Linlin as his equal.


Akainu remained conscious and literally returned a chapter later after falling into that hole. Show me a character with the feat of tanking two of the most powerful attacks we've ever witnessed from a single person in this manga right up close and whilst the attacker was completely bloodlusted. He was by no means washed as you claim as he took a quarter/half of Whitebeard's face and put a hole in his chest.

The Admirals are the greatest military power of the World Government for a reason.

Regarding Whitebeard's power level: this debate has been done to death already. Whitebeard was introduced to us as the WSM in his intro box unlike Kaido (_whose title is just a rumour_). Not that much time passed between his introduction and performance on Marineford.

Reactions: Like 2


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## VileNotice (Oct 2, 2020)

DavyChan said:


> yet he was washed by non-prime whitebeard. If the fleet admiral is supposedly that strong why wasn't Sengoku able to stop whitebeard? Also, the yonkou are yonkou for a reason. They're supposed to be the strongest people alive. Kaido is the strongest man alive supposedly and sees Linlin as his equal.


Oda has made a lot of contrasts between Sengoku's marines and Sakazuki's marines, and I think that will apply to their individual power as well.

Sengoku's marines were headquartered in paradise, and favored a strategic, measured approach, while Sakazuki's iteration is headquartered in the New World and has been noted as more battle-ready and aggressive. So while it hasn't been proven yet, I think that Sengoku as FA was weaker than the admiral trio, as he was primarily a delegator. Sakazuki as FA is going to be a lot more hands-on and is an actual endgame villain to the protagonists, so it only makes sense that he will not only be stronger than Sengoku but the rest of the admirals. Let's not forget he had an extreme-diff 10-day fight to attain the position. I think this points to him having grown since Marineford to where he is on even footing with the Yonko.


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## Juub (Oct 2, 2020)

There was no winner or loser in WB vs Akainu. WB got a cheap shot in and the fight got interrupted.


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## Sloan (Oct 3, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> Akainu remained conscious and literally returned a chapter later after falling into that hole. Show me a character with the feat of tanking two of the most powerful attacks we've ever witnessed from a single person in this manga right up close and whilst the attacker was completely bloodlusted. He was by no means washed as you claim as he took a quarter/half of Whitebeard's face and put a hole in his chest.
> 
> The Admirals are the greatest military power of the World Government for a reason.
> 
> Regarding Whitebeard's power level: this debate has been done to death already. Whitebeard was introduced to us as the WSM in his intro box unlike Kaido (_whose title is just a rumour_). Not that much time passed between his introduction and performance on Marineford.



Well there is narrator box where the narrator says "This Pirate is said to be the strongest creature alive!!!".  So it is in a box.  Though that is obviously formatted much differently than a simple "World's strongest creature" "World's Strongest Man" "World's Strongest Swordsman".

Chapter 795, page 16 for reference.


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## DavyChan (Oct 3, 2020)

VileNotice said:


> Oda has made a lot of contrasts between Sengoku's marines and Sakazuki's marines, and I think that will apply to their individual power as well.
> 
> Sengoku's marines were headquartered in paradise, and favored a strategic, measured approach, while Sakazuki's iteration is headquartered in the New World and has been noted as more battle-ready and aggressive. So while it hasn't been proven yet, I think that Sengoku as FA was weaker than the admiral trio, as he was primarily a delegator. Sakazuki as FA is going to be a lot more hands-on and is an actual endgame villain to the protagonists, so it only makes sense that he will not only be stronger than Sengoku but the rest of the admirals. Let's not forget he had an extreme-diff 10-day fight to attain the position. I think this points to him having grown since Marineford to where he is on even footing with the Yonko.



this is speculation and in no way canonical. In the same way that Akainu being stronger than a yonkou is.


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## VileNotice (Oct 3, 2020)

DavyChan said:


> this is speculation and in no way canonical. In the same way that Akainu being stronger than a yonkou is.


It’s also speculation to assume Teach will be stronger than the other Yonko by EoS. Some things are narratively foretold.


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 3, 2020)

DavyChan said:


> this is speculation and in no way canonical. In the same way that Akainu being stronger than a yonkou is.


 bro have you seen kaido's injuries and big mom's L's this arc? Akainu beats big momma


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## Red Admiral (Oct 3, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> Plenty of arguments have been provided in this thread, but okay.
> 
> Sakazuki is the *Fleet Admiral *(highest rank within the Marines) with the most lethal/strongest offensive DF (whichever translation you prefer, for me it's just semantics) who also killed the brother of the *main character* in front of him and inflicted a permanent big scar on him. He essentially killed the *World's Strongest Man *as there's no way Whitebeard would have recovered with a hole in his chest and a quarter/half of his face missing. Only top tier to have a confirmed win against another top tier (Kuzan).
> 
> It's not always strictly about power levels. The narrative clearly indicates that Sakazuki must be on par if not stronger than the Yonko.



while Akainu ~ Yonko can be a possibility ...

Akainu is no longer a boss of in the story ... in case of an end game war

Kong
Gorosei
Imu
all have better claims to be leader of WG army than Akainu ....

and Luffy blame Teach for death of Ace
and World sees Teach as the man who killed Whitebeard
so narrative gave both the points to Teach and not Akainu ... his only point is giving an scar to Luffy ...

there is not much plot remained around Akainu ... his last major hidden connection might be with Dragon ... so Dragon and Akainu being on par is 100% more legit than any other type of connections


*Yonko were rivals of Whitebeard not Akainu 

Fleet admiral of Marine brought
*

*3 admirals*
*2 legends*
*5 warlords*
*hidden dirty palns*
*a hostage*
*and fought in their own base*
*and yet ... Sengoku said they might lose to Whitebeard 

so there is nothing that suggest any single man in marine ford was an rival to TRUE Whitebeard power 

but Yonko were that men ... *



p.s

Akainu have *"one of"* strongest offensive DFs ....not "*the strongest offensive"*


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 3, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> Akainu is no longer a boss of in the story ... in case of an end game war
> 
> Kong
> Gorosei
> ...


Kong is unlikely to be stronger than Akainu. Meanwhile, the Gorosei and Imu have no feats.


Red Admiral said:


> and World sees Teach as the man who killed Whitebeard


Blackbeard killed Whitebeard when the latter literally was on death's door, and even then, still got his ass handed to him, and called for his crew to help him finish the job.


Red Admiral said:


> and Luffy blame Teach for death of Ace
> 
> so narrative gave both the points to Teach and not Akainu ... his only point is giving an scar to Luffy ...



*Spoiler*: __ 









So we're going to pretend like Akainu being the one who actually killed Ace in front of Luffy, is the first person to ever make Luffy nearly give up his dream, and Luffy getting angry at Akainu's name didn't happen?


Red Admiral said:


> *Fleet admiral of Marine brought
> *
> 
> *3 admirals*
> ...


And the end results were:
- Whitebeard died
- Ace died
- Whitebeard Pirates would have been wiped out had it not been for Shanks, and then a year later, the Blackbeard Pirates gave them an overwhelming defeat.
Keep in mind, the Warlords were screwing around and not fighting anyone seriously (Hancock was actually helping Luffy out), Garp and Sengoku sat in the background, and the Admirals had to hold back their full power to avoid turning Marineford into an early version of Punk Hazard.


Red Admiral said:


> *so there is nothing that suggest any single man in marine ford was an rival to TRUE Whitebeard power
> 
> but Yonko were that men ...*



*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 1


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 3, 2020)

Kong probably has Sun Wukong Mythical Zoan . by the time he is relevant , he'll look as strong as Big Mom or even stronger

how badass was he in his prime though with that DF


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## Red Admiral (Oct 4, 2020)

Daisuke Jigen said:


> Kong is unlikely to be stronger than Akainu. Meanwhile, the Gorosei and Imu have no feats.
> 
> Blackbeard killed Whitebeard when the latter literally was on death's door, and even then, still got his ass handed to him, and called for his crew to help him finish the job.
> 
> ...




power don't even matter ... they out rank him and that's enough in plot
Akainu gave WB 3 scars ... Teach gave him over 100s ... and btw Akainu attacked WB in dirty ways as well ... don't be so proud but point is plot gave that honor to Teach
it happened but that moment didn't really is that much important for over all plot ...
Sengoku said that cause he expected to fight a near Prime WB not a fucked one ... and even with that fight was kinda close as long as Jozu was standing ... a Prime Yonko was enough to win the war base on Sengoku himself
none of those panels are power level related ... just moment that Oda HAD TO nerf Big Mom in order to keep his straw hats alive ... logic is : people should be judge by their highest level of feat and Big Mom is like a god in that matter

neg diff Queen with no DF , weapon and Haki
fighting with Kaido for 2 days and not getting smallest scar
fighting in god valley and not getting smallest scar
neg diff Gear 4 like a joke & elbaf spear
this are small parts of REAL Big Mom power

the fact that you judge her base on a 1% big mom is just ... not fair nor logical


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## RossellaFiamingo (Oct 7, 2020)

The common conception is that Logia Devil Fruits are the best devil fruits in One Piece. For the general population, that is very true. Against most people that an individual in the One Piece World will fight, the advantage that a Logia Devil Fruit provides means the user is practically a god. That is, without the haki, the user will never lose. Nonetheless, despite the advantages of having a Logia, I want to make a case for a Paramecia devil fruit, which is superior to all Logia devil fruits with the possible exception of the *Yami Yami No Mi. *This particular devil fruit is possessed by a Charlotte Linlin and is called the Soru Soru No Mi.

Before we proceed, I don't want to sell the Logia Devil Fruits short. In fact, My favorite Devil Fruit in the series is a Logia, which is currently under the possession of Kuzan. So, to give the Logia Devil Fruits Credit, I'll list why they are so powerful and sought after.

1. Intangibility - This is the most critical aspect of Logia Fruits. Being invincible to anyone who doesn't have Haki is a huge boon. Additionally, when it comes to very long and protracted fights with equals, the person who has the Logia devil fruit will likely win because Logia devil fruits don't seem to have a limit in the substance they can produce. Also, we know that Haki is a finite resource. Consequently, during the course of a long fight, when haki runs out, the individual with the Logia devil fruit is free to go on the offensive against his or her opponent without the fear of being hurt.

2. Versatility - Some Logia Devil Fruits that are not particularly offensive have excellent versatility in the abilities they can create. Crocodile with the Suna Suna, no mi can drain moisture out of organic objects by touching it and has created a host of capabilities with his sand that prove very useful even though sand has no clear offensive potential. Caesar clown with his Gas Gas fruit can manipulate multiple gasses and, with knowledge of chemistry and physics, can maximize the potential of his fruit to truly lethal levels. The Goro Goro No mi also has insane versatility in being able to bring back its user, can be used alongside observation haki, and be used in conjunction with the weather.

3. Hyper Offense - The strongest of the Logia devil fruits such as the C3, Mera Mera, and Goro Goro No mi are characterized by their extreme capabilities for the offense. These fruits, in my opinion, is what makes the 3 Admirals as powerful as they are. Each of them is extraordinarily lethal and has a wide array of offensive potential if taken to their logical extreme makes them easily some of the best fruits anyone can choose to eat. There is no better example than the aftermath of Sakazuki vs. Kuzan, where the nature of their devil fruits changed the entire climate and geography of Punk Hazard permanently.

*Spoiler*: _Punk Hazard_ 







4. Special Elemental Properties. - Each Logia Devil Fruit has a unique property that sets it apart and is an added boon to eating a Logia DF.

Nevertheless, despite these abilities I believe that the Soru Soru No Mi is a superior devil fruit to all Logias with the possible exception of the Yami Yami No Mi. I think I have to make it clear that this relationship is only in direct comparison to the Logia Devil Fruits. In other scenarios, where ranking overall Devil fruits, the Logias may very well come out above the Soru Soru No Mi but when directly compared, I have no doubt in my mind that the Soru Soru No Mi is the superior fruit.

4. Special Elemental Properties. - Each Logia Devil Fruit has a unique property that sets it apart and is an added boon to eating a Logia DF.

Nevertheless, despite these abilities, I believe that the Soru Soru no Mi is a superior devil fruit to all Logias with the possible exception of the Yami Yami No Mi. I think I have to make it clear that this relationship is only in direct comparison to the Logia Devil Fruits. In other scenarios, where ranking overall Devil fruits, the Logias may very well come out above the Soru Soru No Mi. However, when directly compared, I do not doubt in my mind that the Soru Soru no Mi is the superior fruit.

*What Can The Soru Soru No Mi Do?*
The Soru Soru No Mi allows its user to manipulate and control freely "Soul" Oda hasn't given clear definitions of what Soul means. However, from the way the fruit is utilized, we know that Souls are directly related to an individual's life force. The Soul Soul Fruit allows its wielder to manipulate this life force with a few rules to limit the scope of this power. Despite these limitations, the Soul Soul Fruit is still immensely powerful in what it can provide. When speaking of pure offense, I give a slight edge to the Logia Class devil fruits, but the Soru Soru No Mi also has immense offensive potential in used correctly.

1. *Homies *- The Soul Soul Fruit allows an Individual to create sentient constructs out of anything that is not a human or a corpse by infusing their Soul or the Soul of another individual into them.
.  
*Spoiler*: _Homie_ 











The creation of Homies from the Soru Soru no Mi from almost anything around the individual provides one of the most diverse and versatile tool kits any devil fruit user may want. At any given moment, the environment can be turned into an ally.

The most crucial aspect of the superiority of the Soru Soru No MI wen put up against the Logia Class Devil Fruits is that the Soru Soru no Mi can be Soul Constructs with substances that devil fruit users create. In the Picture above, we see that Linlin was able to generate a Soul Construct from Perospero's candy, which was able to control the water to create a massive Tsunami.

This leads to the second point
The creation of homies leads to the second Point

*2. Homie Fusion - Gaining Elemental Resistance / Immunity*
In a scenario where the user of the Soru Soru no Mi is fighting any of the Logia's and the Logia attacks with their elemental abilities, the user is free to turn those elements into Homies. Additionally, turning them into Homies is not the only thing the user can do. We see that Linlin can create a fusion of sorts with the Homes made directly from her Soul. In such a form, she seems to gain immunity/resistance to elemental powers. We see that many of the more dangerous Logia's have some elemental ability that they utilize to hurt their opponents. If the user of the Soru Soru No mi was fighting the user of the Magu Magu no Mi, they can simply infuse their Soul into the Magma. Through this method, they gain a level of resistance. Additionally, their offensive skills are bolstered with Magma to match that of the Magu Magu user.

It's worth noting that fusion may not be necessary to gain elemental immunity or resistance. We see Linlin being capable of grabbing and interacting with Zeus and Prometheus without fusion, which might imply that the user cannot be hurt by aspects made of their Soul. What this means is that the user of the Logia devil fruit may still be able to hurt the Soru Soru user if their immunity only applies to Homies made from their Soul.

Nevertheless, the previous assumption is somewhat contradicted when Zeus managed to bruise Linlin with his massive lightning bolt. The ability to damage her lends credence to the notion that fusion is indeed required to gain immunity/resistance. Additionally, if this is the case, then resistance and immunity would also apply to the elements produced by the Logia.

*Spoiler*: _Homie Fusion_ 









Through fusion, the user seems to gain abilities of whatever object or element they choose to create a fusion. This fusion enhances users' offensive capabilities.
Enhanced Offense From Homies through fusion leads to the third point.

*3. Homies Also Possess Hyper Offense*
The one advantage that offensive Logia Devil Fruits have is their hyper offense but, Homies are able to replicate or even match the highest outputs of offense that we've seen from Logia's. Like the Logia's under the right circumstances, the offensive capabilities of Homies are just as impressive.

If we compare Zeus and his DC to Enel's most potent abilities, we see that they are remarkably similar, and you can even argue that Zeus outpaces Enel. The first two pictures below are Enel's El Thor and Raigou, respectively. Raigou, which is his most potent ability, is amped with the Ark and is used in ideal conditions.

*Spoiler*: _Enel vs Zeus_ 










Next, if we compare the Mera Mera No Mi vs. Prometheus, we notice that Prometheus seems to match the Mera Mera No Mi quite well. I would say that Prometheus, in his enlarged state, appears to be quite a lot bigger than Ace's Entei, which is his strongest attack. Sure we can say that size is not the end all be all for strong attacks, but following Oda's formula, the bigger the attack, the stronger it is. That is why Luffy's Punches get bigger, the stronger he grows. The same can be said for Logia devil fruit users. The stronger their attack the bigger it is in magnitude.

*Spoiler*: _Ace vs Prometheus _ 









 We see that the homies are capable of providing very impressive offense. Even if one wants to give the edge to the Logia due to a possible awakening, the difference in the most potent attacks from both fruits is not significant. And in some cases, one can make the argument that the Soru Soru no Mi is indeed superior in that aspect.

Another factor that must be considered is that Homies seem to be able to powerup from eating their respective elements. This is evident with how Nami was able to feed Zeus lightning balls. So, in a case where there is an elemental mirror match, the homies would gain power and enhance the Soru Soru No MI user's offensive capabilities.

The 4th point deals with the immunity of Homies.

*4. Homies are Intangible - They Cannot be Hurt without soul powers.*
We know that after the aftermath of Brooks vs. BM, Prometheus and Zeus cannot be hurt without the use of soul powers or something that directly counteracts their elements. In Prometheus's case, water would hurt him, but if he grows big enough, then water inconsequential. This means that in a battle, the Soru Soru No mi has several dangerous allies they can use to cause distractions, hurt the enemy, help its user, and the best thing of all, they can't be hurt. This alone provides greater utility than having a supremely powerful Logia Devil Fruit. Even though the Logia's are intangible, the user of the Soru Soru No Mi if they possess haki, is free to enhance their attacks with Haki to make them reach the Logia's real body.

*Spoiler*: _Homies Cannot be Hurt_ 











*5. Utility*
The greatest asset the Soru Soru No Mi provides is utility and the ability to be prepared for nearly any situation. Logia devil fruits, on average, don't give this utility. The user of the Soru Soru No mi will almost always be prepared to act due to the vast array of abilities this fruit offers. Additionally, the minor capabilities that this fruit offers is a bonus.

1. The User's Soul seemingly seems to beat on a higher frequency so they may have a longer and stronger lifespan. Linlin is in the same generation as WB and Roger yet; she is seemingly still in her prime. This might be a side effect of the Soul Soul Fruit, which enhances her spiritual energy allowing her to maintain her essence for far longer than others.

2. Auto Killing Fodder or anyone who fears death. Anyone who fears death is subject to be one-shot by this fruit. It's not only useful because the user can instantly kill enemies, but they can turn those enemies into allies in the blink of an eye by transferring the Soul they just ripped out into an object or animal to create a sentient and loyal ally.
*
Conclusion.*
Thus far, I think I have made a case as to why in a direct comparison or even in indirect comparisons, that the Soru Soru no Mi is superior to the Logia Class of Devil Fruits, which are considered the strongest fruits. I have elucidated that through Homies, the user of the Soru Soru No Mi gains multiple benefits that supersede the intangibility and offensive capabilities of the Logia Class. With the Soul Soul Fruit, an individual is not only able to gain elemental resistance/immunity, but they are also able to increase their offensive capabilities through fusion with their soul constructs. Additionally, in a battle between a Logia and a Soul Soul Fruit user, the Soul Soul fruit user can create homies with the Logia's substance to assist them. These Homies are not only useful as new allies in a fight, but they boast immense offensive capabilities that match or even exceed those we have seen from the highest of the Logia Class. These Homies are also intangible and can grow stronger by consuming their respective elements.

I have yet to speak about the Yami Yami No Mi, which I think maybe the only exception to my claim of superiority due to its ability to negate the Devil Fruit Powers upon contact. Nevertheless, the Yami Yami No mi is not excluded from the various things the Soul Soul Fruit can do. Unlike the other Logia's The Yami Yami No Mi does not provide true intangibility. Thus, other elemental attacks would still hurt its users. Additionally, the Yami Yami No Mi is no exception to the formation of Homies. If Darkness can be projected and emitted, then the Soru Soru no Mi user is likely also capable of producing Homies from that Darkness to gain more advantages.

I think I have made a good case for the Soru Soru no Mi. You can disagree if you want, Tier Specialist and Optimistic, and Neg if you wish. I'm open to discussion.

Lastly, I don't want to ignore the possibility of the potential of the Soru Soru No Mi being related to the potential of its user. It might be the case that the immense potential we've seen from the Soul Soul Fruit is only because of its immensely powerful consumer in Charlotte Linlin. These powers may be far weaker and less potent in the hands of a weaker individual. The same cannot be said for Logia's, which confer a standard benefit no matter the consumer. So, this might be another advantage the Logia Devil Fruits hold.


TLDR, Linlin wins

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## RossellaFiamingo (Oct 7, 2020)

You must first prove that his Magma which fodder literally walk off without any injuries or scars can harm her. Any other supposition being made about Sakazuki and his power levels are purely head canon.

Sakazuki's fruit is the sole reason everyone here is wanking him but even in this scenario, she simply has the better fruit.

His large scale attacks are useless against her because she can simply make a homie who will assimilate with and uptake any Magma he creates.



She will fuse with the Magma homie considering that lightning (which is hotter than magma mind you) does not hurt her, the same goes for fire that she is able to freely grab and fuse with them, the Magma on her skin will quite literally do nothing. 

If any of you want your arguments to be considered credible you must first prove that he is capable of hurting her when higher temperature attacks have failed to do anything to her. All the Magu Magu no Mi has its heat shes shown better heat resistance.

If you think Sakazuki can brawl with her, then you're just letting bias guide your arguments. He was physically overpowered by a dying old man and put in a hole. She would give him the Queen treatment but in much more brutal fashion because Sakazuki weighs nothing and does not have the strength that Queen has in his Zoan form.

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## RossellaFiamingo (Oct 7, 2020)

VileNotice said:


> It’s not gonna be BM feats that will cause people to forget about her embarrassments, it’ll be if Kaido starts racking them up at a similar rate. Which might actually happen lol.
> 
> I also don’t think it takes a genius to figure out that Kaido is at least a bit stronger than Big Mom. They clashed equally when BM didn’t have two of her special homies, which would imply that either 1) she is stronger than him when she has both homies or 2) neither of them were going all out. I personally think option 2 is far more likely — maybe Kaido didn’t use his fruit at all in the skirmish. I think in terms of raw strength with their weapons (Napoleon and the club) and their conqueror’s haki, they are equal. Though Kaido’s offensive boost from his zoan will surpass anything BM has to offer in a 1-v-1, while her fruit is a lot more versatile and useful in general.
> 
> That’s not even accounting for Kaido being the WSC, having a higher bounty, coming second in the story, being closer to his prime years, etc.



You call yourself a Big Mom fan but you can''t even name her feats. She has a list of greatly impressive feats. Many of them are actually relevant in this fight and pretty much makes her losing impossible against a substance producer like Sakazuki. 

I would urge you to go actually reread WCI before you come into this thread making false assumptions like most people here.

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## RossellaFiamingo (Oct 7, 2020)

*Physical Might *
No other character has the portrayal in physical might like Linlin. The only person who comes close is Kaido. The person in third place Kozuki Oden, can be considered a vastly inferior version of her. Since Linlin was a child, her physical strength and body has been at the very top.

At the age of 5, she is casually capable of killing Giant bears with a slap while holding back.

She Solo's A village of Giants and kills two legendary giants after breaking their blades on her arm

*Spoiler*: _Solo's Elbaf Village_ 








She Bullies and Bloodies Big Father with Base Punches

*Spoiler*: _Bullies Big Father_ 








She Casually walks through steel doors and the ground unimpeded

*Spoiler*: _Walking Through The Ground Like Butter_ 







Pummels Queen with 2 hits

*Spoiler*: _Neg Diffs Queen_ 







Matches Kaido in Speed. The same Kaido that blitzed Bound Man Luffy. The Same Boundman that blitzed Doffy. Also Splits the Heavens with just Physical Strength and Haki.

Eats a full-powered attack from Zeus and comes out fine. 

With her physical strength, she is superior to most if not all combatants in a battle of brute force. Some like to attribute feats and abilities to characters who have not shown such feats and lack the proper portrayal. I would like to make it very clear that the only other character apart from Linlin and Kaido who Oda has hyped their physical might and potential is Kozuki Oden. Neither Garp, Roger, Newgate the Admirals, Shanks, and Teach, Mihawk have the level of portrayal in regards to physical might that Oden received. *At the very best* , these characters maybe with the exception of Garp since he lacks both a weapon, DF or COC, are the equals of Oden. They are not above Oden in physical ability and I would argue based on feats and portrayal, they are below him. Kozuki Oden himself with all of his feats and portrayal is still physically inferior to Linlin by a rather large margin.

*Physical Might Conclusion:*
It is clear that physical might is not all that matters in a fight but, it is still an essential category. Linlin has highest portrayal and some of the greatest feats in this category. She is above most if not all combatants by both portrayal and feats. Her physical prowess is a significant advantage that she holds over most and should be put into consideration when discussing the individual strength of characters. The very strongest people in the world can hurt her but, she is far more likely to survive their most potent attacks than them surviving hers. We must remember that the likes of Roger, Newgate, Garp and many others are "normal humans". If they are shot by a bullet or a canon, they will sustain damage. The same is not the case for Linlin. They must breach the gap in durability through the utilization of haki which further skews the overall climate of any fight in her favor.

TLDR; She bullies Sakazuki in close combat if he tries it once he realizes that spamming Magma attacks won't work.

Let's make something clear Lightning Temp > Magma - She has already eaten a powered up Lightning attack that literally melted the ground to create a hole several meters wide and deep. Sakazuki's Magma is not doing a single thing to her.


*Spoiler*: __ 












Please continue spouting the head canon. Not a literal fucking scratch after eating an attack with far higher temp than Magma

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## RossellaFiamingo (Oct 7, 2020)

*Haki*
Haki is the category in which most would point to as a distinct disadvantage for Linlin when she is compared to the likes of Roger, Newgate, and others. Nevertheless, I consider such a notion lacking because she has some of the best feats of Haki that we have seen thus far. Haki cannot be used as a means of downplaying or discrediting her strength as an individual combatant.
*1. Armament Haki*

The thread investigates the source of Linlin's incredible durability and iron ballon like body. The only logical conclusion that one can reach with the information we have regarding the world is that the source of her durability is Haki.

Linlin has only been injured in moments when she is in emotional anguish.

*Spoiler*: _Linlin's Durability As Haki_ 










We know that Haki can be disrupted when in poor physical or mental conditions. This condition is evident in Luffy vs. Katakuri, where Katakuri loses his ability to use observation haki. Also, present in MF where Whitebeard's poor physical condition almost negates his haki usage. We also know that Haki is a finite resource. If the source of Linlin's body is her armament haki, then she, without a doubt, demonstrates the highest talent for the use of armament haki. She has been walking around for the past 63 years with a body always clad in her will. No other character has a relative feat of haki capacity.

Even if we are to move into the realm of Facts rather than "speculation", she feats of armament she has shown are still relatively impressive.

She is 1 of 3 characters that are capable of using Flame Pattern Armament Haki, which combines one's devil fruit ability with their armament haki. (Luffy and Katakuri are the other two).

*Spoiler*: _Flame Pattern Haki_ 




[*]After this clash, she subsequently knocks Luffy out of G4 by using her Devil Fruit in combination with her Haki. A picture of this has been posted twice.


Katakuri's Diced Mochi is both Hard and Sticky



She Seems to have Advanced Armament Haki. She has the same Aura around her hands that Ray does when he uses it.
*2. Observation Haki*
This is likely her weakest form of Haki. Katakuri's Precognition Haki is substantially above hers but he is above every other character we know to date so that is not a knock on her. She is capable of using it in her sleep much like Newgate.

 
Despite Linlin's lack or overt display of observation haki, she must be sufficiently proficient in its use. Haki is a requirement for every character. She had no issues keeping up with Kaido in their three-day brawl. Additionally, she has likely fought scores of other top tiers and powerful characters that possess the ability but is not overwhelmed by their mastery in it.
*
3. Conquerors Haki*
This revelation may come as a surprise, but much like armament haki, Linlin's conquerors haki is also very impressive. Her feats are roughly on par with some of the best we have seen thus far.

She can mix her CoC with her scream and can damage the environment with it. She uses it to destroy the poison rocket. The area of effect of her COC blast encompasses the whole cake castle built by Strusen. Shanks is the only other person who can weaponize their COC to such an extent and affect the environment with it.

*Spoiler*: _Able to Mix CoC With Her Scream_ 




[*]




She is able to control the weather with her COC.

*Spoiler*: _Control Weather_ 




Each time Emperors clash, they considerably affect the weather around them by splitting the heavens or causing storms. However, Linlin seems to be capable of doing it by herself without the use of her DF.
Some people have theorized that Roger changed the weather against Shiki, which explains why he was so confident of his victory and that the strength of Dragon's Haki is why strong winds always accompany him. In the ace novel, it is revealed that ace can stop it from snowing due to the strength of his haki alone. Linlin's conquerors, Haki, is also mighty. In her Anger over Morgans and his fake news, we see storm clouds surrounding WCI due to Linlin's bad mood. It is also worth noting that this was after she had already lost Zeus, so it is not a Devil Fruit feat.



We will likely get more information about advanced forms of Conquerors Haki, but of the information we have and of the feats we have seen, Linlin is right there with the very best. In a fight, she is likely inferior to Roger and Shanks, who seem to be specialists in that category, but for everyone else, she is superior or equal. The Gap between Conquerors Haki may or may not bridge the advantage she has over other aspects of combat, but, at the very least, it cannot be used against her as a means of justifying her defeat.
*
Haki Conclusion*
We see that in Haki, where most would expect her to be lacking or deficient, she has outstanding feats. Her feats are a match for the very best in these categories while also surpassing some. Her armament haki is prodigious. Her observation haki is passable. Her conquerors haki is more impressive than most would assume. Consequently, in a fight, even if her opponent has an advantage in the use of Haki, the Gap is likely marginal due to her impressive feats. Consequently, Haki cannot be used as a means of disregarding her strength. She shines in 2/3 forms of Haki.

TLDR; She has better Haki than Sakazuki and if we''re going with Anime since some of you are running purely on head canon, she also penetration as well. She dominates Sakazuki in that aspect as well because his Haki feats are subpar at the very best.

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## GreenBull956 (Oct 7, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> *The common conception is that Logia Devil Fruits are the best devil fruits in One Piece. For the general population, that is very true.* Against most people that an individual in the One Piece World will fight, the advantage that a Logia Devil Fruit provides means the user is practically a god. That is, without the haki, the user will never lose. Nonetheless, despite the advantages of having a Logia, I want to make a case for a Paramecia devil fruit, which is superior to all Logia devil fruits with the possible exception of the *Yami Yami No Mi. *This particular devil fruit is possessed by a Charlotte Linlin and is called the Soru Soru No Mi.
> 
> Before we proceed, I don't want to sell the Logia Devil Fruits short. In fact, My favorite Devil Fruit in the series is a Logia, which is currently under the possession of Kuzan. So, to give the Logia Devil Fruits Credit, I'll list why they are so powerful and sought after.
> 
> ...


i didn't read all of this , but @*bolded* , it isn't just for general population of One Piece people .

Oda in 2 SBS have implied , and said Logias are the most powerful




there are Paramecias which can equal or surpass Logia's offensive capabilities though , the 2 most obvious are Fujitora's Gravity and Gura Gura , but they don't give the intangibility that Logias give

anyway , back to Soru Soru , it was implied the Homies have limits to how much they can dish out , and therefore how much they can store inside themselves

it was implied by one of Big Mom's strongest Homies , Prometheus :


you don't believe this , since this is not Official Translation ? i'll get you the official


"i just need...to eat some fire!!"
"i feel so *weak*..."

the official still implied what i said above . hell even in official Prometheus outright said he was "weak" because his amount of fire he stored inside himself was decreasing

so unlike Logias who can dish out limitless amounts of their elements , Oda had highlighted that Prometheus and Zeus have limits to how much they can dish out and store .

maybe you have covered/explained about this in your post since i didn't read all of it , but this just in case you didn't .

the Admirals' Logias also have Awakenings , which Punk Hazard implied . and i'm not assuming that the Homies can match their offensive capabilities in Awakened state , until proven otherwise

therefore i'm also not assuming that the Homies can replicate all of these , which are the side effects of Aokiji's and Akainu's fight












i mean , say Big Mom is going to fight Kaido in the middle of a barren island as big as Punk Hazard right now . i don't think she can effect it as much as Aokiji or Akainu did , as the side effects of the usage of her Homies

and btw i think Brownbeard implied Aokiji and Akainu fought in the middle of Punk Hazard here ( "Ground Zero" ) :


that lake is right in the middle of Punk Hazard​

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## Corax (Oct 7, 2020)

Lighting has such temperatures for a super short amount of time (milliseconds at best). Even normal humans can survive lightning bolts (though they might receive burns and their bones might be broken). But for example lignting can't melt steel,while Akainu's attack melted steel sword (1500-1700 C). His magma is magical. Though so is Enel's (or Zeus) lightning,but anyway it didn't incinerate people either,while Akainu literally incinerated marine soldier. This is strongly supported by Brook's immunity to Zeus (since he has no skin he can't be burned,but Zeus can't incinerate his bones).


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 7, 2020)

Corax said:


> Lighting has such temperatures for a super short amount of time (milliseconds at best). Even normal humans can survive lightning bolts (though they might receive burns and their bones might be broken). But for example lignting can't melt steel,while Akainu's attack melted steel sword (1500-1700 C). His magma is magical. Though so is Enel's (or Zeus) lightning,but anyway it didn't incinerate people either,while Akainu literally incinerated marine soldier. This is strongly supported by Brook's immunity to Zeus (since he has no skin he can't be burned,but Zeus can't incinerate his bones).


Oda doesn't have obligation to follow real life stats like Magma being 700-1300 °C  anyway

and i don't understand OBD stuff
( calculations involving formulas & shit ) , but in Akainu's profile , it is said Akainu's Magma has heat beyond that of real life Magma , cause he could melt that steel sword by just being near it ( that you're referring to ) , and evaporated Jozu's bigger than battleship - iceberg in an instant
​


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## RossellaFiamingo (Oct 7, 2020)

GreenBull956 said:


> i didn't read all of this , but @*bolded* , it isn't just for general population of One Piece people .
> 
> Oda in 2 SBS have implied , and said Logias are the most powerful
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking out the time to write such a detailed reply. I'll try to address all of your points

Individually, the homies are not the match of the Logia Fruits. Which is why my main point is the Soru Soru No Mi as a whole being a superior fruit to any Logia. The Logias reign supreme when it comes to raw power and offense but the Soru Soru No Mi can match that output even if the homies are not doing so as individual entities. Additionally, the Soul fruit is far more versatile. 

Good catch on the prometheus panel. This is the first time I'm actually reading it actively or making note of it but in a fight between a logia fruit user and the Soul Soul Fruit user, the homie created from the Logia's substance has a near infinite amount of fodder to consume as a source of energy. So while their output limits may play a factor against other Devil fruit users, against substance producers, they don't have this issue. If Akainu can create all the Magma that he wants, the Homie can uptake as much as they need to in any given moment before expending it in an attack (powered by haki after Homie fusion) and then uptake some more. 

The Admiral Logias have awakening and so does the Soul Soul Fruit. The Admiral Logia awakenings likely lend themselves purely to offense while we don't know that of the Soul Soul Fruit but, considering the stature of the person wielding the soul soul fruit, I don't think Logia awakening favors the Admirals. At the very worst, their awakenings would cancel each other out.

One of the main things Sakazuki has to overcome here is a homie made out of his element that can uptake his Magma and can be used to enhance Linlin's own attack once it has been imbued with Haki. Additionally, Linlin has shown very high and sustained levels of temperature resistance. She can freely touch her homies and interact with them. She can and will likely be able to do so with the Magma homie one she fuses with it. 

Substance producers are directly countered by the Soul Soul Fruit. Logia's are less prone sine you need Haki to actually hurt them but, there are ways to hurt Logia users without using Haki. For example, when Lightning strikes Magma, it superheats it to the point where it is vaporized or melts so quickly then cools into a solid structure. So Zeus is also a factor in this fight.

I'll reiterate that alone, an individual homie isn't going to match the Logia fruit but, the Soul Soul Fruit as a whole counters any Devil Fruit that produces any type of substance because homies can be made out of it and those homies can assimilate or uptake their respective substance as a form of energy. Akainu's Magma just provides the homie with an unlimited source of energy.

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## Mercurial (Oct 7, 2020)

Is this thread still open? I have more chances to kick Mike Tyson's ass than Big Mom to survive, not even win, just survive, against Akainu.

I can't see how a single person who is not brain dead or a Meme fanboy/Akainu hater could not firmly vote for Akainu. We are not talking about some Fujitora here.

Akainu' high end feats >> Big Mom's

His portrayal >> Big Mom's due 

She tanks? He is lethal. She hits hard? He has unbelievable endurance. She is a brainless idiot when it comes to fight, while he is a tough experienced bastard.

Admirals ~ Yonko
Strongest Admiral >> Weakest Yonko

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## RossellaFiamingo (Oct 7, 2020)

Corax said:


> Lighting has such temperatures for a super short amount of time (milliseconds at best). Even normal humans can survive lightning bolts (though they might receive burns and their bones might be broken). But for example lignting can't melt steel,while Akainu's attack melted steel sword (1500-1700 C). His magma is magical. Though so is Enel's (or Zeus) lightning,but anyway it didn't incinerate people either,while Akainu literally incinerated marine soldier. This is strongly supported by Brook's immunity to Zeus (since he has no skin he can't be burned,but Zeus can't incinerate his bones).



The Lightning attack Linlin took was sustained energy/heat  if it wasn't that hole wouldnt have been made nor would the area around it be superheated. She can fuse and grab onto her lightning cloud for extended periods of time so she has shown the ability to sustain high levels of energy and heat. She can literally have her hair be on fire without a single hair being burnt off.

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## Corax (Oct 7, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> The Lightning attack Linlin took was sustained energy/heat  if it wasn't that hole wouldnt have been made nor would the area around it be superheated. She can fuse and grab onto her lightning cloud for extended periods of time so she has shown the ability to sustain high levels of energy and heat. She can literally have her hair be on fire without a single hair being burnt off.


In OP lightning can burn skin/muscles at best (confirmed by Brook). Also contact with any lighting is very short (microseconds),unlike contact with magma that can last seconds or even minutes. And she was burned by Zeus and screamed in pain on Sunny,but you are deliberately forgetting about it.

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## Great Potato (Oct 7, 2020)

Trying to equate logia users to their real life elements is silly; Akainu vaporized a millions of tons iceberg in an instant, caused swords to disintegrate from being in his vicinity, evenly matched Aokiji who can instantly freeze kilometers of ocean and tsunami's large enough to engulf Marineford, and is capable of maiming and killing characters who are more than capable of taking lightning. He's far beyond the threshold of real life magma and it's ridiculous to place those as his limits, feels like reaching for an argument there.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 7, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> power don't even matter ... they out rank him and that's enough in plot


Rank is not the end all be all. Spandam is the leader of CP9, yet was the weakest member by far.


Red Admiral said:


> Akainu gave WB 3 scars ... Teach gave him over 100s ...


Was this before or after Whitebeard wiped the floor with Blackbeard and the latter needed his crew to come save him?


Red Admiral said:


> it happened but that moment didn't really is that much important for over all plot ...





Red Admiral said:


> Sengoku said that cause he expected to fight a near Prime WB not a fucked one ... *and even with that fight was kinda close*


Whitebeard Pirates:
- Whitebeard and Ace died.
- Marco got cuffed with Seastone but for some reason Kizaru just left him alone instead of shooting him in the head.
- Jozu got frozen solid and lost an arm.
- Again, the Whitebeard Pirates would have been wiped out if Shanks hadn't shown up.

WG + Warlords:
- Warlords were fine, I can't remember the major ones with any significant injuries.
- Akainu was injured from Whitebeard's attacks but still strong enough to keep fighting.
- Aokiji was fine apart from a little bloody lip.
- Kizaru, Garp, and Sengoku were fine.

But yeah, it was close.


Red Admiral said:


> not getting smallest scar


Doesn't mean much in OP. Off the top of my head, Luffy has gotten badly injured all the way throughout the whole series, but his only noteworthy scars are the one under his eye and the one Akainu gave to him.


Red Admiral said:


> the fact that you judge her base on a 1% big mom


I don't judge her based on that. I judge her based on the fact that Big Mom has been a complete and utter failure and that Oda hilariously shits on her at any chance he gets. If her own creator doesn't give a damn about her, why should I?


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## Red Admiral (Oct 7, 2020)

Daisuke Jigen said:


> Rank is not the end all be all. Spandam is the leader of CP9, yet was the weakest member by far.
> 
> Was this before or after Whitebeard wiped the floor with Blackbeard and the latter needed his crew to come save him?
> 
> ...



lol ... the defying is strong with you 

let's go ....


sure ... compare the leader of WG to Spandam ... and yes ... leading and rank are 100 % connotated ... 
 killing WB and defeating him is not the same thing .... neither Teach or Akainu defeated WB .... but Teach was the one who killed him 
did you failed to see the part about *"PRIME BEARD"* .... killing WB was Teach achievement not Marine ... killing a hostage Ace who was barely on his feet after weeks with DF advantage ? that's a big feat 
oh sure ... not getting scar from a fight with Kaido don't matter in OP world  and you legit think Akainu is Luffy's final enemy  you are in one massive delusion 
Big Mom is a Great Pirate by title who rivaled all kings of seas in 3 era ... Oda treat her poorly cause if she be full power all straw hat will die .... in the same why that a PTS Luffy can face 3 admirals and none of them manage to kill him .... do you see any Yonko fan blame them much for this?  no cause we understand what feats are "POWER LEVEL RELATED" and what feats "PLOT RELATED"  Big Mom is equal with Kaido .... a fact stated by manage and seen in their duel

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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 7, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> leading and rank are 100 % connotated


Orochi was the Shogun of Wano, yet he wasn't the strongest. Sengoku was the Fleet Admiral during the Whitebeard War, but he wasn't stronger than the Admirals. Rank isn't always a guarantee that one will be stronger than their subordinates.


Red Admiral said:


> did you failed to see the part about *"PRIME BEARD"*


Even if Whitebeard was in his prime, he and his crew still would have lost.


Red Admiral said:


> killing WB was Teach achievement not Marine


Congratulations. Blackbeard got his ass handed to him by a Whitebeard who already had one foot in the grave, and needed his crew to come bail him out. What an achievement.


Red Admiral said:


> oh sure ... not getting scar from a fight with Kaido don't matter in OP world


Kaido was holding back on Meme.  He saw what Ls Oda has in store for her and felt so bad he wanted her to look at least a little good before Oda shat on what little (if any) remains of her hype.


Red Admiral said:


> you legit think Akainu is Luffy's final enemy


I don't know who will be the final villain, but Akainu will for sure be pretty close to it at the minimum.


Red Admiral said:


> Oda treat her poorly cause *if she be full power all straw hat will die*


So? There are other ways around this. Take Sabaody for instance. Did Oda treat Kizaru like a joke and a loser when he fought the SHs? No. He had Kizaru get stalled by Rayleigh and brought in Kuma to teleport the SHs away. And as for Akainu, even after a sneak attack from Whitebeard, he blew off half of Whitebeard's head, then got back up and proceeded to bulldoze through Jimbei and Iva, and it took the rest of the WB Crew to slow him down, and eventually Shanks to stop him. But instead, Oda continues to shit on her in a hilariously embarrassing fashion.


Red Admiral said:


> in the same why that a PTS Luffy can face 3 admirals and none of them manage to kill him


They still treated him like their own personal football throughout the entire war. They also did not get turned into Chopper's personal plot device (or get humiliated anywhere near as bad as Big Meme).

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## Red Admiral (Oct 7, 2020)

Daisuke Jigen said:


> Orochi was the Shogun of Wano, yet he wasn't the strongest. Sengoku was the Fleet Admiral during the Whitebeard War, but he wasn't stronger than the Admirals. Rank isn't always a guarantee that one will be stronger than their subordinates.
> 
> Even if Whitebeard was in his prime, he and his crew still would have lost.
> 
> ...



thanks ... you showed me you are more than logical enough  ... 
et me try to do my share


why you don't get it ... you can be a final villain without even being strongest ... but again Akainu was a joke to Gorosei so CLEARLY he is not their strongest weapon
that's not what Sengoku assumed ... Sengoku > you
Akainu got ass handed to him by a Whitebeard as well ... but Teach got the plot hype with killing WB as well
not true as well ... nothing imply Kaido was holding back ... if fact Big Mom was the one who fought him without 2 of his homies
anything but final Akainu make you "just a solder" .... Akainu being Sabo or Dragon fight make much more sense than Luffy
Big Mom have both good and bad feat ... fighting equally with Kaido and big a big shot on god valley ... are more than enough feats .... Oda doing things for sake of plot should not be seen as power level feats ... knowing Big Mom got *ZERO DAMAGE* so far is a proof of that
cause if he don't ... there be no story ... Big mom is the ONLY one who can tank all of this shit ... a perfect plot devise

p.s

I'm not saying every time Big Mom was on screen she was a god ... clearly not
I'm not saying Big mom got more "respect" than Akainu .... clearly not
but
*in one piece all people have bad fucking feats ... and sure Big Mom have the most amount of bad moments ... no doubt
but judging a character power level should be done with power level related facts ... not plot armor related one
and a Big Mom in full action clearly showed to have AL LEAST equal feats to 100% Kaido THAT WE SAW .... 
*
problem is ... Wano is too fucking much for Luffy
Oda need to make his story intertining so he HAVE TO change the upper hand in order to make the plot interesting


King HAD TO do that to Big Mom so she join Kaido on her own
Queen HAD TO do that so Big Mom and Kaido can join
SHs HAD TO do something in plot and Oda COULDN'T let Big Mom go all out in order of having a story ....

this are not power level related moments ...

but something like *" Kaido fight Big Mom for real and for 2 days and none of them get smallest level of scar" *is
but *"people mention the fact that Big Mom is another Kaido and on his equal level " *is

Big Mom = Kaido is just a fact that Oda can not stay loyal to it *"on every single moment of his story"*

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## YonkoDrippy (Nov 19, 2020)

Seeing how Akainu did good against Whitebeard how does he fare against Big Mom?



VS



@stealthblack @Ren. @TheWiggian @Ludi @xmysticgohanx @OG sama @Shunsuiju

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## TheWiggian (Nov 19, 2020)

Sakazuki wins. High-extreme diff in a random scenario. Him not being afraid of the WSM and Big Mom failing to recruit a blue flame homie from Marco renders her DF powers useless against him. For all we know Magma > Fire and Prometheus gets burned and meets the same fate as Ace while Zeus ain't damaging the Admiral. Only one remaining would be Napoleon for battle.

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## Ren. (Nov 19, 2020)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Seeing how Akainu did good against Whitebeard how does he fare against Big Mom?
> 
> 
> 
> VS


Non Nerfed BM?


BM makes a Lava homie to neg Akainu's AP  and use her Wave homie + Promeues for flying and countering lava

Hight extreme diff BM ... too OP for Akainu!






TheWiggian said:


> For all we know Magma > Fire and Prometheus


The same homie that is not damaged by haki LOL yeah.

Marco has a special flame ... lava is no special.

Akainu's DF being better than Ace's DF does not make Lava > Fire LOL

Fire is way and I mean way hotter than magma or lava and I mean the sun is 15M degree and Lava is 1.5k degree, that  is pure fire is plasma.



TheWiggian said:


> Ace while Zeus ain't damaging the Admiral.


Island level AP LOL and plasma aka way hotter and faster than magma.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## stealthblack (Nov 19, 2020)

BM may have the hardest body to damage in OP, but if ''the highest level attack'' doesn't pierce, nothing will. akainu extreme diff.

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## Corax (Nov 19, 2020)

Akainu high diff. Admiral with the best feats and portrayal vs yonko with the worst feats and portrayal.


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## YonkoDrippy (Nov 19, 2020)

Corax said:


> Akainu high diff. Admiral with the best feats and portrayal vs yonko with the worst feats and portrayal.


Tbh Blackbeard has the worst feats for a Yonko. His best feat is beating Marco. Which is not impressive when compared to Big mom’s feat of stalemating Kaido who’s arguably the strongest character in OP currently

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## xmysticgohanx (Nov 19, 2020)

Akainu wins extreme diff. Big Mom has the worst feats out of any top tier. Many of them. Her portrayal sucks. Is she still a top tier? Of course but I think she is the weakest. They're all extreme diff fights for each other


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## Captain Altintop (Nov 19, 2020)

Akainu  wins with high (high) difficulty.


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## Djomla (Nov 19, 2020)

Akainu punches the candies out of her.

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## Zero (Nov 20, 2020)

Ren. said:


> BM makes a Lava homie to neg Akainu's AP and use her Wave homie + Promeues for flying and countering lava


Wave Homie would be pretty ridiculous but considering Akainu has a magma Devil Fruit he could just evaporate it all...remember the scene when he melted that huge block of Ice thrown by Jozu in Marineford. He should replicate a feat like that pretty easily in this scenario.

Also why do you believe Prometheus would do much against Akainu?


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## Ren. (Nov 20, 2020)

Zero said:


> Wave Homie would be pretty ridiculous but considering Akainu has a magma Devil Fruit he could just evaporate it all...remember the scene when he melted that huge block of Ice thrown by Jozu in Marineford. He should replicate a feat like that pretty easily in this scenario.


Ice was limited to that block.

The  volume of that block of ice vs that Tsunami is 10kX+

Plus again, Sea water is a weakness for DF users and the homie can create more.

A tunami of that size would cool a natural vulcano.

In a prepared state, BM can make an ice homie + that Wave Homie reducing a lot of Akainu's AP while countering his AP with a flaming Sword.





Zero said:


> Also why do you believe Prometheus would do much against Akainu?


I never said he will do anything, BM can use it to fly or to mitiage a part of Akainu's attack,

And note something, Flames in general are hotter than magma or lava.

The rule set for Ace's DF and Akainu's DF are not the same for the Homie.

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## xmysticgohanx (Nov 20, 2020)

Prometheus won’t work against Akainu. That’s headcanon. Accept the series for what it says.


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## Ren. (Nov 20, 2020)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Prometheus won’t work against Akainu. That’s headcanon.


In fact that is headcanon in itself.

We don't know.

Also a COA imbuted BM Napoleon + Prometeus will work on Akainu.

And again haki does not work on Prometheus and Prometeus is not an Inferior DF like Ace, it is the soul of BM as plasma.


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## GreenBull956 (Nov 20, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Big Mom failing to recruit a blue flame homie from Marco


all these comments about Big Mom being able to make a Magma Homie , yet she never made any Homie from her enemies' belongings so far

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ren. (Nov 20, 2020)

GreenBull956 said:


> all these comments about Big Mom being able to make a Magma Homie


She can go to a volcano and make one.
She made one from the sea.


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## Draco Bolton (Nov 20, 2020)

At some point Akainu use awakening (I don't see top tiers winning against others top tier without using their full power). Awakening become nature. The nature become volcano (see PH). BM can create Homies from nature.

Magma Homie, better durability, better physical strengh, versatility (Napoleon, flying), no PIS...

BM extrem diff.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Creative 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Ren. (Nov 20, 2020)

This is Akainu when facing BM:



Those vulcanos will produce the magma for the homie as @Draco Bolton  said.


BM has counters for every element shown with the exception of gravity I think.

She can make a Mirror homie for Light.
She  has a fire and Wave  homie for Ice

She has a Fire and Wave for Magma + can make a magma one.

BM's DF is  OP.

And she can fly.

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## Mercurial (Nov 20, 2020)

Let's be serious and let's be real.
Big Mom can do nothing against Akainu.

Except for one thing. Actually, two.
Lose and die.

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## Steven (Nov 20, 2020)

Ren. said:


> This is Akainu when facing BM:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This

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## Great Potato (Nov 20, 2020)

Creating a tidal wave is useful if they're fighting at sea, but the OP says this fight takes place on Dressrosa. There's not really any water on the actual playing field for her to use to her favor unless they suddenly start fighting on the Iron Bridge for whatever reason.


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## xmysticgohanx (Nov 20, 2020)

Ren. said:


> In fact that is headcanon in itself.
> 
> We don't know.
> 
> ...


we do know. prometheus is fire

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Ren. (Nov 20, 2020)

xmysticgohanx said:


> prometheus is fire


If it is just fire.

Fire is hotter than magma.

Ace's DF inferiority is not the same as Magma being hotter than fire naturally as that is false.

Prometheus just has to produce blue flames or white flames and he is way hotter than magma.

The only elemental advantage that we saw was sea water.


let alone that this is  BM's Soul that is not affected by haki, Akainu's magma body will be affected because it has an actual body, Prometheus is just a part of BM's Soul.

Let's not spin what Oda said:

Akainu's DF is better than Ace's DF not that Akainu is now better than any flame.


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## TheWiggian (Nov 20, 2020)

Ren. said:


> If it is just fire.
> 
> Fire is hotter than magma.
> 
> ...



So much for your real life physics  

Magma burns fire, it will burn Prometheus the same way it burned Ace.

And just throwing a bone in there by your real life logic Marco burned Prometheus with blue flames ^^ So much for Prometheus being able to burn blue or white.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Ren. (Nov 20, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> And just throwing a bone in there by your real life logic Marco burned Prometheus with blue flames ^^ So much for Prometheus being able to burn


Oda said that the blue flame of Marco never burns but heals:

Basic mythology regarding a phoenix.

I have a theory well not mine but I agree with it that by trying to "heal" Prometheus he forces BM's soul back to her when attacking Prometheus.



TheWiggian said:


> Magma burns fire,


No magma burned Ace's flame as said by Oda because of superiority.

For example, A sun will burn and evaporates even a planet by going Supernova let alone a supervolcano like those on Jupiter(I think).

"Akainu’s ability is naturally of a higher order than Ace’s pyrokinetic abilities, as the higher heat and smothering abilities of his magma allowed him to successfully harm Ace despite Ace’s Logia-defense, and ultimately kill Ace due to this superiority."



By your logic, Akainu's magma should have burned Marco's flames ...

Magama is molten rock and or Metals.
Fire is plasma.


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## TheWiggian (Nov 20, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Oda said that the blue flame of Marco never burns but heals:
> 
> Basic mythology regarding a phoenix.
> 
> ...



Nope because there is a big heat difference between blue and normal fire but nice try. Anyway i know that Marco's flames don't burn enemies. Maybe when Sabo awakens and takes his fruit mastery to a new level we see blue or white fire from him and it will allow him to battle Sakazuki on equal terms or maybe even win but so far nothing of that sort was ever involved in the story and Prometheus will be burned no different than Ace.


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## Ren. (Nov 20, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Nope because there is a big heat difference between blue and normal fire but nice try


The flame of a typical candle has an outer core that burns at close to 1,400 °C (about 2,500 °F) while the core of the flame burns at 800 °C (1,450 °F).

We all know that the lava is molten rock that is spewed from a volcano. However how hot is lava? The temperature of lava can range anywhere from 700° C to 1200° C.

Akainu’s ability is naturally of a higher order than Ace’s pyrokinetic abilities, as the higher heat and smothering abilities of his magma allowed him to successfully harm Ace despite Ace’s Logia-defense, and ultimately kill Ace due to this superiority."

Oda never said that Akainu's magma is superior to flames because he know that is not true.
He made Ace's DF inferior to Akainu's.



TheWiggian said:


> Maybe when Sabo awakens and takes his fruit mastery to a new level we see blue or white fire from him and it will allow him to battle Sakazuki on equal


We agree on this.

NOw that was the context.


That thing is again BM can use that in conjuncture with her superior raw strength, her Souls Sword and Haki, Her flame is just a bonus to mitigate some of the damage that Akainu can produce.


My argument is even simpler, her Homie gives her natural high resistance to fire if not night immunity, add the natural resistance that makes her take no scratch would reduce Akainu's AP by a lot.


Similar to how Kaido a dragon is nigh resistant to fire.


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## xmysticgohanx (Nov 20, 2020)

Ren. said:


> If it is just fire.
> 
> Fire is hotter than magma.
> 
> ...





TheWiggian said:


> So much for your real life physics
> 
> Magma burns fire, it will burn Prometheus the same way it burned Ace.
> 
> And just throwing a bone in there by your real life logic Marco burned Prometheus with blue flames ^^ So much for Prometheus being able to burn blue or white.


Real life physics are bogus when the manga tells us otherwise

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Ren. (Nov 20, 2020)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Real life physics are bogus when the manga tells us otherwise


I never disagreed with the manga:

Akainu’s ability is naturally of a higher order than Ace’s pyrokinetic abilities, as the higher heat and smothering abilities of his magma allowed him to successfully harm Ace despite Ace’s Logia-defense, and ultimately kill Ace due to this superiority."

Prometheus only elemental counter was seawater and Souls powers.

And now the blue flame of Marco that heals.


Haki works on Akainu, Haki does not work on Prometheus as he is just fire with a soul.

So I agree with both of you Ace's DF is inferior.


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## TheWiggian (Nov 20, 2020)

Ren. said:


> The flame of a typical candle has an outer core that burns at close to 1,400 °C (about 2,500 °F) while the core of the flame burns at 800 °C (1,450 °F).
> 
> We all know that the lava is molten rock that is spewed from a volcano. However how hot is lava? The temperature of lava can range anywhere from 700° C to 1200° C.
> 
> ...



That's contradictory. Oda clearly explained Magma burns fire, wouldn't make sense for him to know that and stating otherwise unless he planned to retcon it *"When and IF"* blue flames other than Marco's will be revealed/added to someone's arsenal like Sabo's who is basically the only one that could be built up for that, but i wouldn't bet a cent on that.



Ren. said:


> That thing is again BM can use that in conjuncture with her superior raw strength, her Souls Sword and Haki, Her flame is just a bonus to mitigate some of the damage that Akainu can produce.



No reason to believe her raw strenght is superior to the WSM with quakes who Akainu matched comfortably. Also no reason to believe Prometheus fire has any advantage over Ace's as Akainu clearly stated fire gets burned by his magma. He wouldn't even add Haki.



Ren. said:


> My argument is even simpler, her Homie gives her natural high resistance to fire if not night immunity, add the natural resistance that makes her take no scratch would reduce Akainu's AP by a lot.



If Prometheus works the same way as Zeus who wielded by Nami could damage Big Mom, there is no reason to believe she got heightened resistance against those elements, night immunity is baseless because her homies don't even dare to attack her but been clearly effective when used against her by someone else.



Ren. said:


> Similar to how Kaido a dragon is nigh resistant to fire.



He isn't as shown by Raizo, his own fire affected him.


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## Corax (Nov 20, 2020)

Magma just burns fire according to Oda. Even if it doesn't make any sense in real life such are rules in his manga. So actually Akainu's DF counters Prometheus.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MO (Nov 20, 2020)

Raikiri19 said:


> Let's be serious and let's be real.
> Big Mom can do nothing against Akainu.
> 
> Except for one thing. Actually, two.
> Lose and die.


she can kill him ofc.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 2


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## TheWiggian (Nov 20, 2020)

Corax said:


> Magma just burns fire according to Oda. Even if it doesn't make any sense in real life such are rules in his manga. So actually Akainu's DF counters Prometheus.



On one hand he didn't specify which kind of fire though. On the other it would mean any fire, no matter of which substance/heat.


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## Corax (Nov 20, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> On one hand he didn't specify which kind of fire though. On the other it would mean any fire, no matter of which substance/heat.


I think in vivre card he made it clear. Any "hot" fire (though not sure about Marco's as it is a special one).


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## TheWiggian (Nov 20, 2020)

Corax said:


> I think in vivre card he made it clear. Any "hot" fire (though not sure about Marco's as it is a special one).



It doesn't. It gives him the highest offense power when related to DF's and that the magma makes it easy for him to melt through many things, penetrating Jinbei and Ace's   body.


His magma either covers all types of fires by his speech or is limited to certain heat levels. We probably won't find out, so i'd suggest to take physics with a big grain of salt. Oda clearly bends the rules to his narrative.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Nov 20, 2020)

Akainu low diff Whitebeard, this is not even close.


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## Beast (Nov 20, 2020)

Wait... Prometheus isn’t fire?

prometheus will do nothing but make Akainus attack stronger as he punches half her face off.

Ace had the fire fruit, Akainu burned him and his fire, give that Pipe dream a rest. Magma homie will do nothing but empower Akainu. As she goes to make a homie she will get yet another magma fist.

Akainus simple answer to BM is a magma fist to the face. Simple.


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## Shunsuiju (Nov 20, 2020)

Yup. Akainu probably one shots her like he did Whitebeard.


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## JustSumGuy (Nov 20, 2020)

Bruh cmon y’all know Big Mom ain’t beating Akainu lol.

And people using WB against Akainu are being purposely dishonest. Have Big Mom kill Ace right in front of WB and she’s gonna get hit a few times no matter how close WB is to death.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Beast (Nov 20, 2020)

JustSumGuy said:


> Bruh cmon y’all know Big Mom ain’t beating Akainu lol.
> 
> And people using WB against Akainu are being purposely dishonest. Have Big Mom kill Ace right in front of WB and she’s gonna get hit a few times no matter how close WB is to death.


Personally, i don’t see how BM survives if she was in Akainus spot, being sneak attacked by a raging WB.


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## Sherlōck (Nov 21, 2020)

People don't understand how deadly a sneak attack on the head from a top tier is.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Zero (Nov 21, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> People don't understand how deadly a sneak attack on the head from a top tier is.


Like imagine if the roles were reversed and Akainu was the one going to Magma Fist Whitebeard directly on the head offguard.

Whitebeard would be severely injured, if not dead.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Sherlōck (Nov 21, 2020)

Zero said:


> Like imagine if the roles were reversed and Akainu was the one going to Magma Fist Whitebeard directly on the head offguard.
> 
> Whitebeard would be severely injured, if not dead.



Aside from KaiDou & BM I don't see anyone surviving a hit from Akainu's Meigou on the head without any haki defense.


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## MO (Nov 23, 2020)

Beast said:


> Personally, i don’t see how BM survives if she was in Akainus spot, being sneak attacked by a raging WB.


how? she was praised for her durability countless times. Matter of fact that's like one of the defining aspects of her character. That she can't be damaged under normal circumstances. Why wouldn't she survive?


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## Beast (Nov 23, 2020)

MO said:


> how? she was praised for her durability countless times. Matter of fact that's like one of the defining aspects of her character. That she can't be damaged under normal circumstances. Why wouldn't she survive?


Ehh... durability isn’t endurance, so IF Akainu was to take a chunk off her face, she’s a goner. Not that he would have any problem doing it if he got a free shot like he did against WB.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## TheWiggian (Nov 23, 2020)

Beast said:


> Ehh... durability isn’t endurance, so IF Akainu was to take a chunk off her face, she’s a goner. Not that he would have any problem doing it if he got a free shot like he did against WB.



Bro he means if WB quakes Big Mom instead Akainu as quoted in your previous post. But she would still be hit harder as her outer shell won't cover the soft tissue below that will still get affected by the quakes.

And ofc Sakazuki would kill her the same way he killed WB.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Beast (Nov 23, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Bro he means if WB quakes Big Mom instead Akainu as quoted in your previous post. But she would still be hit harder as her outer shell won't cover the soft tissue below that will still get affected by the quakes.
> 
> And ofc Sakazuki would kill her the same way he killed WB.


I’m high asf, change Akainu with WB and Magma with Quake

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TheWiggian (Nov 23, 2020)

Beast said:


> I’m high asf, change Akainu with WB and Magma with Quake



It's still faulty

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MO (Nov 23, 2020)

Beast said:


> Ehh... durability isn’t endurance, so IF Akainu was to take a chunk off her face, she’s a goner. Not that he would have any problem doing it if he got a free shot like he did against WB.


huh. I mean Big mom taking whitebeard quakes. She would take it much better.


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## Beast (Nov 23, 2020)

MO said:


> huh. I mean Big mom taking whitebeard quakes. She would take it much better.


Quakes would go through BMs durability, and she is prone to brain trauma, so one hit and a bit of vibrations, BM is sleeping or going O Lin mode.
@TheWiggian looool, I don’t know anymore man, Ima sleep this shit off, shits.

Reactions: Like 2


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## MO (Nov 23, 2020)

Beast said:


> *Quakes would go through BMs durability,* and she is prone to brain trauma, so one hit and a bit of vibrations, BM is sleeping or going O Lin mode.
> @TheWiggian looool, I don’t know anymore man, Ima sleep this shit off, shits.


and what makes you think that?


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## Corax (Nov 24, 2020)

MO said:


> and what makes you think that?


He has a good point here. She fell from the ship and lost her memories. Queen fell on her and she regained her memories. So her weakness is blunt damage/vibrations. Unless of course WB's quake is weaker than a fall from the ship or Queen's bomber. But it isn't obviously.


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## Great Potato (Nov 24, 2020)

Corax said:


> He has a good point here. She fell from the ship and lost her memories. Queen fell on her and she regained her memories. So her weakness is blunt damage/vibrations. Unless of course WB's quake is weaker than a fall from the ship or Queen's bomber. But it isn't obviously.



I figured her initial amnesia had less to do with the fall itself and more to do with her nearly drowning at sea, something that's known to cause memory loss because of the lack of oxygen supply to the brain. Brachio Bomber looked like a concussion though.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MO (Nov 24, 2020)

Corax said:


> He has a good point here. She fell from the ship and lost her memories. Queen fell on her and she regained her memories. So her weakness is blunt damage/vibrations. Unless of course WB's quake is weaker than a fall from the ship or Queen's bomber. But it isn't obviously.


I'm pretty sure big mom got amnesia from being under  water not the blunt of hitting the water.


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## Corax (Nov 24, 2020)

MO said:


> I'm pretty sure big mom got amnesia from being under  water not the blunt of hitting the water.


But Queen's blunt trauma attack returned her memories.


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## Beast (Nov 24, 2020)

MO said:


> and what makes you think that?


What? 
mare we gonna go through what we went through with Kaidou... now, with BM.

forget knock her out, WB would probably flatten her face.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MO (Nov 27, 2020)

Beast said:


> What?
> mare we gonna go through what we went through with Kaidou... now, with BM.
> 
> forget knock her out, WB would probably flatten her face.


it didn't even flatten akainu's face. Big Mom durability>>akainu.


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## Sherlōck (Nov 27, 2020)

MO said:


> it didn't even flatten akainu's face.



As far as I remember it did. Akainu just reformed later.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Dunno (Nov 27, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> Aside from KaiDou & BM I don't see anyone surviving a hit from Akainu's Meigou on the head without any haki defense.


Pretty sure San Juan Wolf would be fine.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## MO (Nov 27, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> As far as I remember it did. Akainu just reformed later.


in the manga?


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## Corax (Nov 27, 2020)

MO said:


> in the manga?


In the manga too. At least his ears,mouth and nose were bleeding till the end of the war. So damage was quite significant (yet not enough to completely KO him obviously). But Akainu has a logia body advantage unlike Kaido and BM. They are solid,not liquid so quakes should do far more damage to them.


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## MO (Nov 27, 2020)

Corax said:


> In the manga too. At least his ears,mouth and nose were bleeding till the end of the war. So damage was quite significant (yet not enough to completely KO him obviously). But Akainu has a logia body advantage unlike Kaido and BM. They are solid,not liquid so quakes should do far more damage to them.


akainu being a logia didn't/doesn't make a difference  considering wb has haki.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Nov 27, 2020)

Admiral boys with a last ditch effort at saving their dying clan. Like I said, the moment Sakazuki separates the magma from his body (Which he has to, he isn't winning a brawl with her - She'll give him the Marco treatment but unlike Marco, he can't regenerate his wounds) the fight is over.

She wins High end of Mid Diff. The Magma Homie uptakes all the Magma Akainu has to offer, gets stronger, fuses with Linlin, Linlin uses Haki and fists Sakazuki with his own abilities.

Also, lightning would turn Sakazuki into solid rock. Substance producers have no shot at beating Linlin and thats just facts.

Hilarious how intellectually dishonest you guys are to equate the best durability in the verse to normal durability. She's taken an attack far more lethal than Magma (Sustained seconds of Zeus's lightning which was hot enough to vaporize several meters of earth in a flash) and walked it off like nothing.


*Spoiler*: __ 



She'll turn the Magma squirt to a homie.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 8


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## GreenBull956 (Nov 27, 2020)

Akainu mid diff   

the Calbuco Volcano one shots Prometheus , then proceeds to one shot her

Reactions: Like 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Beast (Nov 27, 2020)

MO said:


> it didn't even flatten akainu's face. Big Mom durability>>akainu.


BMs has no durabilty feats to say she doesn’t get flattened by WBs quakes, she needs feats of tanking something stronger on panel... but she doesn’t.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Beast (Nov 27, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Admiral boys with a last ditch effort at saving their dying clan. Like I said, the moment Sakazuki separates the magma from his body (Which he has to, he isn't winning a brawl with her - She'll give him the Marco treatment but unlike Marco, he can't regenerate his wounds) the fight is over.
> 
> She wins High end of Mid Diff. The Magma Homie uptakes all the Magma Akainu has to offer, gets stronger, fuses with Linlin, Linlin uses Haki and fists Sakazuki with his own abilities.
> 
> ...


Ahahahah... tell us how Zeus is hotter and more dangerous then Akainu who can burn fire... go on, we will wait.

BM does not have the durabilty to take any of Akainus attacks, stop playing with yourself. It’s mind boggling that even now, you still try to downplay everything and hype BM... no amount of RL logic is going to Save BM.

we’ve seen what pure lighting can do and boy oh boy, you aren’t going to be too happy. Magma fist to face and BM has no more face.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MO (Nov 27, 2020)

Beast said:


> BMs has no durabilty feats to say she doesn’t get flattened by WBs quakes, she needs feats of tanking something stronger on panel... but she doesn’t.


Big mom has never been damaged and her durability has constantly been hyped. She would obviously tank it. Not without damage but she isn't looking like akainu did.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Beast (Nov 27, 2020)

MO said:


> Big mom has never been damaged and her durability has constantly been hyped. She would obviously tank it. Not without damage but she isn't looking like akainu did.


Yeah, except you’ve never seen BM in an all out fight, whether she has or hasn’t doesn’t make any difference because she has NO feats of being able to tank anything close to WBs quakes, espically his most deadly one that he used against Akainu.
Yes, BMs durability is hyped but that hype does not close to WBs quakes that is hype again and again to be able to destroy the world.
Yeah, you keep writing that in your fanfic, BM isn’t even waking up and might even die from that attack tbh, not like she has any feats to with stand such an attack espically while distracted/ blindsided.
Akainus endurance>>>> BMs endurance, her durability isn’t matching the quake and her endurance has nothing on Akainu or WBs.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## MO (Nov 27, 2020)

Beast said:


> Yeah, except you’ve never seen BM in an all out fight, whether she has or hasn’t doesn’t make any difference because she has NO feats of being able to tank anything close to WBs quakes, espically his most deadly one that he used against Akainu.
> Yes, BMs durability is hyped but that hype does not close to WBs quakes that is hype again and again to be able to destroy the world.
> Yeah, you keep writing that in your fanfic, BM isn’t even waking up and might even die from that attack tbh, not like she has any feats to with stand such an attack espically while distracted/ blindsided.
> Akainus endurance>>>> BMs endurance, her durability isn’t matching the quake and her endurance has nothing on Akainu or WBs.


We don't need to see. We know she has taken part in fights. She was at God valley. And yes the hype does. Big mom has been an emperor the longest among the current generations and has been a full blown pirate since she was 6 and has never taken damage.  She has had runs with other powerful figures. 


Imagine thinking akainu,who has never been praised once for his durability, can tank it better than Big Mom who has on so many occasions been specifically hyped for her durability and it's portrayed as basically being impenetrable . It's honestly comical. 

And no once is talking about endurance here.


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## Kroczilla (Nov 27, 2020)

My votes on big mom.

Anyone whom Kaido considers an equal beats any admiral 1v1 imho.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Beast (Nov 27, 2020)

MO said:


> We don't need to see. We know she has taken part in fights. She was at God valley. And yes the hype does. Big mom has been an emperor the longest among the current generations and has been a full blown pirate since she was 6 and has never taken damage.  She has had runs with other powerful figures.
> 
> 
> Imagine thinking akainu,who has never been praised once for his durability, can tank it better than Big Mom who has on so many occasions been specifically hyped for her durability and it's portrayed as basically being impenetrable . It's honestly comical.
> ...


Yes and she got beat. So, we know BM can take a Ls, whether she heals quickly or not, anything is possible. BM never taking damage is NLF, just straight up BS. She wouldn’t have any equals if she can’t be damaged, think with your brain sometimes.
BM ran into Garp and Toger in GV as well, I’m sure her durabilty helped her win the fight... ooh wait.


ehhh... are people still having problems with the difference between Ednruance and durability ? The last four years of your time in the forums really have been nothing short of a waste if you can’t tell that much apart.

haha haha... what are we talking about then?
BMs durability has no feats, hype or portrayal to withstand WBs quakes... so what exactly are you arguing?

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Kroczilla (Nov 27, 2020)

The point being made by @Beast is silly tbh. If Akainu and BB, two people with zero noteworthy durability can survive direct hits from bloodlusted WB's quakes, its borderline trolling to say the person most renowed for durability cant survive same.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## MO (Nov 27, 2020)

Beast said:


> Yes and she got beat. So, we know BM can take a Ls, whether she heals quickly or not, anything is possible. BM never taking damage is NLF, just straight up BS. She wouldn’t have any equals if she can’t be damaged, think with your brain sometimes.
> BM ran into Garp and Toger in GV as well, I’m sure her durabilty helped her win the fight... ooh wait.


We don't know if she got beat but we know she fought then and she still took no damage. It's not straight up BS. It's fact. 




Beast said:


> ehhh... are people still having problems with the difference between Ednruance and durability ? The last four years of your time in the forums really have been nothing short of a waste if you can’t tell that much apart.


Endurance is how much damage you can take and durability is how well you take it. How you withstand against the damage. We are not talking about how long big mom can handle getting quaked we are talking about how well she takes the quakes.  And Don't get cheeky with me. 


Beast said:


> haha haha... what are we talking about then?
> BMs durability has no feats, hype or portrayal to withstand WBs quakes... so what exactly are you arguing?


I just listed the hype and portrayal.


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## Kroczilla (Nov 27, 2020)

This is why i didnt really participate in this thread. Coz it was obvious fanboyism would (going by the polls). 

I guess by this logic, most users like Akainu would defeat any of the other emperors. I also guess most users believe the other yonko would lose against an old sick WB with hundreds of mortal wounds and a heart disease. 

I swear, the OL sometimes..

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Beast (Nov 27, 2020)

Kroczilla said:


> The point being made by @Beast is silly tbh. If Akainu and BB, two people with zero noteworthy durability can survive direct hits from bloodlusted WB's quakes, its borderline trolling to say the person most renowed for durability cant survive same.


No, you fucking need to understand that WBs quakes are not being tanked by anyone... no one in this fucking verse has the durabilty to TANK, WBs quakes.
BM has no endurance feats to suggest that she can take a beating, one head shot from Queen rocked her brain, a wake will turn off her lights. 


MO said:


> *We don't know if she got beat but we know she fought then and she still took no damage*. It's not straight up BS. It's fact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was waiting for it... well, because you people become too predictable. That’s a lie and made up BS. BM can be damaged for one, just dropping on her own knees with her weight is able to scratch her body, Queens Dino weight can ramble her brain, but yes you go ahead and tell us that BM takes no damage in fights and definitely didn’t take an damage from the only Known L
Of her life... yeah, this happened with Kaidou and he has better durability feats then BM lmao.


Lol, not it’s not. Endurance you are right, Durability is the ability to withstand attacks without taking damage or at least very little. Durability is Kaidou taking no damage from Luffys G4 hits, endurance is Kaidou enduring the 4 scabbards oden style attack, you notice the difference... one can’t break through durabilty, the other does. Make sense?
BM takes the attack Akainu takes and she is done, no two ways about it tell she shows us her endurance feats, yeah I’ll do what I want thank you very much.

the hype and portrayal do not come close to WBs quake  power, BM is not taking WBs attack and walking it off like Akainu, she does not have the feats for it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## MO (Nov 27, 2020)

Beast said:


> I was waiting for it... well, because you people become too predictable. That’s a lie and made up BS. BM can be damaged for one, just dropping on her own knees with her weight is able to scratch her body, Queens Dino weight can ramble her brain, but yes you go ahead and tell us that BM takes no damage in fights and definitely didn’t take an damage from the only Known L
> Of her life... yeah, this happened with Kaidou and he has better durability feats then BM lmao.


And ofc you're going to ignore mother carmel being the caused of the whole knee scratch. All queen did was jog her memory and gave her a small headache. I don't need to tell you. The manga already has.


Beast said:


> Lol, not it’s not. Endurance you are right, Durability is the ability to withstand attacks without taking damage or at least very little. Durability is Kaidou taking no damage from Luffys G4 hits, endurance is Kaidou enduring the 4 scabbards oden style attack, you notice the difference... one can’t break through durabilty, the other does. Make sense?
> BM takes the attack Akainu takes and she is done, no two ways about it tell she shows us her endurance feats, yeah I’ll do what I want thank you very much.


Durability is how well you can withstand attacks. WB had low durability because he was getting easily pierced by fodders. Big mom is tanking it much better than akainu.
You can dream all you want about big mom getting knocked out but nothing supports it. It just a fantasy.
I ain't asking don't get cheeky.



Beast said:


> the hype and portrayal do not come close to WBs quake power,


Yes it does.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Nov 27, 2020)

MO said:


> And ofc you're going to ignore mother carmel being the caused of the whole knee scratch. All queen was job her memory and gave her a small headache. I don't need to tell you. The manga already has.
> 
> Durability is how well you can withstand attacks. WB had low durability because he was getting easily pierced by fodders. Big mom is tanking it much better than akainu.
> You can dream all you want about getting knocked out but nothing supports. It just a fantasy.
> ...


Emotional weakness only adds to the point. BM is not naturally that durable and is probably thanks to her haki and see key word is probably. Queens weight as able to rattle her, a quake would put her to sleep, simple. WBs quake>>>>>>>>>>>>...>>>>>>> Queens attack, so... well, maybe you can do the maths.


Without taking no/ little damage, BM is not going to walk away from a blindsided quake attack... she does not have the feats... what’s so hard to understand?
Yeah, you keep trying to make up things up. The only person the hurt Akainu is WB, so that BS of BM having better durability is nothing short of more headcanon. yeah, you really did waste a whole 4 years doing thing here... go read the rules of the battle dome and then come back, and it’s precisely because you aren’t asking nicely that is not going to change my tone.

yeah, please show us the panels of BM
Having planet tanking durability... I’ll wait, even the hype/ portrayal of such a notion, I’ll wait, feats/ hype or portrayal
Of BM having planet tanking durability.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Sloan (Nov 27, 2020)

Didn't Oda say in an SBS Akainu's DF has the highest Attack Power/Lethality?  I don't see Big Mom getting knocked out by 1-2 Gura's but Big Mom isn't tanking Meigou's with ease either imo.


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## MO (Nov 27, 2020)

Beast said:


> Emotional weakness only adds to the point. BM is not naturally that durable and is probably thanks to her haki and see key word is probably. Queens weight as able to rattle her, a quake would put her to sleep, simple. WBs quake>>>>>>>>>>>>...>>>>>>> Queens attack, so... well, maybe you can do the maths.


Doesn't matter what it's caused by.
And no it wouldn't. We don't know how the attacks compare. In pretty sure if a massive dinosaur fell on akainu's head. He would get a lot more than just a rattle. If he didn't shapeshift.


Beast said:


> Without taking no/ little damage, BM is not going to walk away from a blindsided quake attack... she does not have the feats... what’s so hard to understand?
> Yeah, you keep trying to make up things up. The only person the hurt Akainu is WB, so that BS of BM having better durability is nothing short of more headcanon. yeah, you really did waste a whole 4 years doing thing here... go read the rules of the battle dome and then come back, and it’s precisely because you aren’t asking nicely that is not going to change my tone


I never said she is walking away with no damage. I said she would walk away looking a lot better than akainu.
Durability is how well you withstand damage. Not taking no damage at all.
I wasted 4 years yet you're the one who was bringing up endurence when its not what we are even talking about. 






Beast said:


> yeah, please show us the panels of BM
> Having planet tanking durability.


WB didn't even destroy the island. What planet level attacks is she tanking?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Nov 27, 2020)

MO said:


> Doesn't matter what it's caused by.
> And no it wouldn't. We don't know how the attacks compare. In pretty sure if a massive dinosaur fell on akainu's head. He would get a lot more than just a rattle. If he didn't shapeshift.
> 
> I never said she is walking away with no damage. I said she would walk away looking a lot better than akainu.
> ...


Hahahahahaha, good luck with your life bruh, clearly you DONT WANT to understand anyway.


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## Bobybobster (Nov 27, 2020)

meme obv doesn't have the power of wb, akainu tanking a full quake to the head is a plus for him.
Then you also factor in how lethal akainu's devil fruit is, extreme diff for akainu.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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