# Kakashi (Pein Ark) VS Konan



## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 9, 2017)

Kakashi's my favorite Shinobi while Konan's my favorite Kunoichi...let's see what happens...

*Location:* destroyed Konoha 
*Start distance:* 30 meters
*Knowledge:* Manga 
*Restrictions:* none
*Prep:* none
*Kakashi*

*VS*
Konan
* 
*​

Reactions: Like 1


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## Icelerate (Feb 9, 2017)

Konan survived an explosion which blew her entire body barring part of her head and torso thereby causing Konan to lose the  vast majority of her paper angel figure. Raikiri stabs or even cutting Konan in half would do absolutely nothing to her. If Kamui is used before Konan can spread out, Kakashi would win but he won't resort to kamui until after fighting with Konan for a bit. Moreover, by spreading around into a bunch of shuriken or simply creating multiple copies of her, kamui is rendered useless. She eventually defeats him by boxing him in with paper from all directions and catching him off guard from a blind spot. 

Though Kakashi can go underground to survive her onslaught so if he camps underground, it becomes a stalemate and then whoever runs out of chakra first loses.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Gohara (Feb 10, 2017)

Kakashi wins without much of a problem IMO.  Kakashi was already arguably more powerful than most Members of Akatsuki prior to The 4th Great Ninja World War Arc.  Kakashi has presumably become more powerful since then as he's a prodigy.  Plus, Kakashi arguably performed better against a more powerful version of Obito than Konan did even with a lot of prep.


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## Bonly (Feb 10, 2017)

Kakashi doesn't have anything to hurt Konan once in her paper form so either he gets overwhelmed by her paper and nuked to hell or he manages to outlast her and finish her off jutsu runs out afterwords


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 10, 2017)

Gohara said:


> Kakashi wins without much of a problem IMO.  Kakashi was already arguably more powerful than most Members of Akatsuki prior to The 4th Great Ninja World War Arc.  Kakashi has presumably become more powerful since then as he's a prodigy.  Plus, Kakashi arguably performed better against a more powerful version of Obito than Konan did even with a lot of prep.



Ok saying "he wins without much of a problem" is not telling me why he would win lol you should explain to me how kakashi will actually kill Konan rather then comparing an opponent that they both fought and neither of them are even the same version...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JiraiyaFlash (Feb 10, 2017)

Konan's DB's descriptions and description about her jutsus looks cool and intimidating. Both of them in my top 25 char. I love them.

But to be fair.. Konan needs more feats and to beating MS Kakashi.

Her Obito fight misdirect some people's opinion IMO. She fought with homefield advantage, she create some solution against Tobi over the years and she used months or maybe years of prep we dont know.. Of course she is at least Low Kage even w/o many feats.

But that paper form its kinda starts to be overratin'.

Suigetsu has water form but lightning effects him, we dont know what lightning do to Konan.

And Konan's papers arent titanium or something.. yeah they're resistance to water, fire and other metals.

But they'rent able to cut or scracth Obito's metal rod back then.. But Jiraiya cracked the steel pipes with his hairs ?!
Or Kimimaro states his bones harder than steel.. Or Naruto, Jiraiya and Kakashi break Pain's black rods..

So looks like Konan's paper aint strong enough to cut things. So it probably also not durable as Jiraiya's hair, or ribcage Susano or V1 Raiton Armor or even the body of Tsunade.

And probably dividin as papers and reconstruct taxing a lot of chakra from her cuz after her big explosion that using for Obito... She didnt look able to use that form again.. So ı dont think Konan avoid from "everything" that kakashi got for so long..

Same can be say for kakashi.. but Kakashi has more legit, versatile feats both as quantitiy and quality over Konan.

So ı think that fight can goes to either way due to lack of knowledge about Konan's limits..

But ı think saying something like "Konan win this" ... Konan needs a lot of more random feats. And sadly she aint.

So slightly ım gonna go with Kakashi-Sensei here. But saying "Kakashi win w/o much problem" also looks bad to me as saying "Konan take this" so try to be more objective gentlemen 

@oetsuthebest  Did you see bro  When you compare kakashi with someone who is on his league ı can defend him without a guilt

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ryuzaki (Feb 10, 2017)

Water/Lighting combo or genjutsu, take your pick. Kakashi will likely trump her with a feint and then take her out with a lightning jutsu or a fire jutsu or a water jutsu.


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## Ishmael (Feb 10, 2017)

Didn't pein arc kakashi have kamui??


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## Isaiah13000 (Feb 10, 2017)

Kakashi can only defeat her with Kamui, other than that he's not going to be able to kill her. We're not sure exactly how good Kakashi's Kamui is in the Pain Arc, so it might not be that effective. Which in that case, would mean Kakashi could simply use Doton to go underground. That way Konan can't hit him, but then he can't hit her, so it'd end up becoming a fight of who can outlast who. So really, it can probably go either way, but I lean towards Konan a bit more because Kakashi cannot harm her and she can harm him.


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## Ishmael (Feb 10, 2017)

Mmm in this fight I lean towards konan more. But kakashi showed he had enough accuracy with his Kamui to warp a moving missile. So if he can have that same accuracy in this fight and get a one shot, GG.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 10, 2017)

Ryuzaki said:


> Water/Lighting combo or genjutsu, take your pick. Kakashi will likely trump her with a feint and then take her out with a lightning jutsu or a fire jutsu or a water jutsu.



Konan's paper is immune to water and lightning attacks not sure if a combo would be very different also Kakashi is not Darui so he can't do 2 justus at once there for isn't as fast so Konan will be out of range before can do them both. Konan is also immune to genjutsu so she would just ignore that, Kakashi with Katon isn't canon, clone fainting wouldn't be as useful against Konan because most of Kakashi's Jutsu wouldn't work on her


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 10, 2017)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> Konan's DB's descriptions and description about her jutsus looks cool and intimidating. Both of them in my top 25 char. I love them.
> 
> But to be fair.. Konan needs more feats and to beating MS Kakashi.
> 
> ...



I definitely agree that Konan obviously dosent have nearly as much feats but what she has shown is pretty impressive considering we've only seen her fight a hand full of times...her paper pierced through concrete and stayed intact (the databook also states that it's as strong as an ordinary kunai) and actually her 600 billion paper bombs explosion showed that she haves above normal chakra reserves because she moved billions of her paper at an instant and shortly after she set off each of them one by one for 10 minutes(during all of this she was in her paper form...until the technique was over...and was floating in air). But honestly this fight can go either way imo

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## JiraiyaFlash (Feb 10, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> she set off each of them one by one for 10 minutes


Dude ı just read DB and wikia but ı didnt find anything about that ?! After dozens of them (at most) the chain reaction of explotion comes directly ?! not controlled by Konan for "6 BILLION PAPERS" . 

And her explosions aint happened in instant like Tobirama's. Cuz Obito still able to crack his mask then releasing Izanagi.. And before all of this he just thinked for a while (split seconds of course) . . 

I dont want to defend any of them cuz this is a close fight and both them have some unique abilities. And ı already said; "This can goes to either way." 

But IMO; Konan needs more serious and quantitiy of feats for taking MS Kakashi down. If we're talking about before then Pain Arc than yeah somehow ı see how Konan beat him without too much trouble.. 

But ıf both of them considered as their primes. Then ım gonna go with kakashi with legit reasons.

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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 10, 2017)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> Dude ı just read DB and wikia but ı didnt find anything about that ?! After dozens of them (at most) the chain reaction of explotion comes directly ?! not controlled by Konan for "6 BILLION PAPERS" .
> 
> And her explosions aint happened in instant like Tobirama's. Cuz Obito still able to crack his mask then releasing Izanagi.. And before all of this he just thinked for a while (split seconds of course) . .
> 
> ...



In order to detonate a paper tag you either need chakra or ignited it with fire (Konan used the chakra method) Obito used the Izanagi before she set the 600 billion paper bombs. 

And Konan stated that she was going non stop explosions


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## JiraiyaFlash (Feb 10, 2017)

@NightingaleOfShadows 




NightingaleOfShadows said:


> And Konan stated that she was going non stop explosions


Dude she said "I prepared for this 6 billion tag for kiiling you. And enough for 10 minutes explotion" So due to her own quote she is not remotely ignite each paper.. She just set this and just give them a starts thats all.. And ıf you read explosive tag section from narutowikia. You can see paperbombs are explosive even without chakra ignites.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 10, 2017)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> @NightingaleOfShadows
> 
> 
> 
> Dude she said "I prepared for this 6 billion tag for kiiling you. And enough for 10 minutes explotion" So due to her own quote she is not remotely ignite each paper.. She just set this and just give them a starts thats all.. And ıf you read explosive tag section from narutowikia. You can see paperbombs are explosive even without chakra ignites.



Without using chakra or fire ignition the paper tags are simply chakra infused sheets of paper with some words inscribed on it, the tags don't act like grenades if you know what I mean. You can even see it here when she sets them all off


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## Mithos (Feb 10, 2017)

Kakashi doesn't have much in his move-set to counter Konan's Paper Angel technique. If he destroys some of her paper with lightning- or fire-style techniques, she should be able to clone more. Kakashi lacks the AoE necessary to take care of Konan's paper, I think. Eventually, Konan should wear Kakashi down with minor injuries here and there until she lands a more decisive blow. 

I favor Konan.


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## Gohara (Feb 14, 2017)

@ Nightingale.

It's true that they were different versions of the characters, but that's part of my point. Konan with a lot of prep is of course more powerful than she is without prep. Obito is more powerful when he matches up against Kakashi than he is when he matches up against Konan. So wouldn't that be a point in Kakashi's favor rather than Konan's?


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## JiraiyaFlash (Feb 14, 2017)

Mithos said:


> Kakashi lacks the AoE necessary to take care of Konan's paper


Konan lack of feats to deal with Kakashi's quickness, speed, precog and elemetal versatility. I think its a realy close match-up.. But sayin "Kakashi not gonna injure much Konan" its heavily optimistic my friend.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 14, 2017)

Gohara said:


> @ Nightingale.
> 
> It's true that they were different versions of the characters, but that's part of my point. Konan with a lot of prep is of course more powerful than she is without prep. Obito is more powerful when he matches up against Kakashi than he is when he matches up against Konan. So wouldn't that be a point in Kakashi's favor rather than Konan's?



....your logic sucks, Obito wasn't even trying when he fought Kakashi...nor was Obito using his ghost mode. Konan was prepping for Obito's Kamui and ghost mode for obvious reasons also every time you talk about Konan you NEVER give me a legit reason into why she would loose...the only think you ever mention is her prep which I never even think about because she's still powerful w/o it and we've only seen her fight one time with prep and that was up against who she that was Madara Unchia  (let that sink in... she haves some balls) you know the person who fought the God of Shinobi Hashirama... so yeah she's gonna prep for that and you also mention portrayal which is pretty stupid when talking about THE AKATSUKI ( S RANK CRIMINALS made to capture Jinchuriki) and even if I valued portrayal...Konan has defeated Han Jinchuuriki by herself, was leader of the Rain village(know as the Angle), Jiraiya's student, Nagato's partner, and she fought OBITO UNCHIA  you know one of the main antagonists and he just survived because Izanagi(HAX) so this time tell me how exactly Kakashi will kill Konan


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## Ishmael (Feb 14, 2017)

I'll tell you how!! Kamui GG
That's all folks.


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## Lord Aizen (Feb 14, 2017)

kakashi is a one trick pony and his one trick doesnt work on konan. She fights at a distance and attacks dont cause he to lose sight of her opponents so kakashi is never clone feinting her. He'll have to fight her head on and he's got nothing to hit her with that she can't overpower. Kamui isn't an option as kakashi will be up against multiple paper clones. For kakashi to use kamui he needs to have an opening because using kamui forces him to stop what he's doing and focus on an object to warp it completely. If he tries this on konan he'll be wide open and the paper clones will explode in his face


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## Mithos (Feb 14, 2017)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> Konan lack of feats to deal with Kakashi's quickness, speed, precog and elemetal versatility. I think its a realy close match-up.. But sayin "Kakashi not gonna injure much Konan" its heavily optimistic my friend.



What about his speed or quickness is going to be a big problem for her? Kakashi's speed alone hasn't been much of a problem for any of the Akatsuki or Kage level ninja he's fought in Part II. Konan would have a difficult time hitting Kakashi for sure because of KB and precognition, but I have a hard time seeing him win when his main form of offense - KB feints/trickery + Raikiri - is rendered ineffective before her splitting. 

Kakashi hasn't shown a lot of potent mid- or long-range elemental ninjutsu, and the ones he has shown haven't been on the scale I think is necessary to significantly threaten Konan when she can disperse. Most of his attacks would be evaded, met head-on with paper attacks, or fail to destroy enough paper to do much damage. 

Konan would have a tough battle, but she should win in my opinion. Her offense is more effective against Kakashi than his is against her.

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## t0xeus (Feb 14, 2017)

Lord Aizen said:


> kakashi is a one trick pony and his one trick doesnt work on konan. She fights at a distance and attacks dont cause he to lose sight of her opponents so kakashi is never clone feinting her. He'll have to fight her head on and he's got nothing to hit her with that she can't overpower. Kamui isn't an option as kakashi will be up against multiple paper clones. For kakashi to use kamui he needs to have an opening because using kamui forces him to stop what he's doing and focus on an object to warp it completely. If he tries this on konan he'll be wide open and the paper clones will explode in his face


Kakashi a one trick pony? Not even close lmao. One trick pony would be someone like Obito who purely relies on his hax technique, while Kakashi is known as a guy who has 1000 jutsus.

He can just use genjutsu on Konan right off the bat, she has shown no counter against it if she's not in her Shikigami no Mai form, which she has no reason to enter from the start.

She probably begins with spamming some paper attacks on Kakashi with her paper wings, while Kakashi puts her into genjutsu.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 14, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> Kakashi a one trick pony? Not even close lmao. One trick pony would be someone like Obito who purely relies on his hax technique, while Kakashi is known as a guy who has 1000 jutsus.
> 
> He can just use genjutsu on Konan right off the bat, she has shown no counter against it if she's not in her Shikigami no Mai form, which she has no reason to enter from the start.
> 
> She probably begins with spamming some paper attacks on Kakashi with her paper wings, while Kakashi puts her into genjutsu.



When she haves her paper wings she is in her paper form... and she can use her Paper form almost instantly so no Kakashi wouldn't use genjutsu...at least at this point


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## Gohara (Feb 14, 2017)

@ Nightingale.

I doubt that any of them in any of those match ups used all of their techniques. Part of the Kakashi vs. Obito match up was partially off screen, though, so who's to say what techniques they didn't use?

You're right, Konan barely has any on screen feats excluding her match up against Obito in which she had a lot of prep. However, that's usually part of my point when ranking Konan's level of power. It's not so much that I think that there's a lot of evidence for ranking her below most or all Members of Akatsuki. It's more so just the lack of feats that she has. I'm not going to rank her around the same level of power as a character who can hold his own against a character who is more powerful than nearly all Normal Ninjas when she lacks feats.

You don't have to justify why Konan prepped for the match up. I'm not denying that it's reasonable for Konan to do. I doubt that they care about power levels. They care about winning and if that means cheating they will. There's nothing wrong with that. However, when I rank them in terms of power, I'm not going to include cheating.


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## t0xeus (Feb 15, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> When she haves her paper wings she is in her paper form... and she can use her Paper form almost instantly so no Kakashi wouldn't use genjutsu...at least at this point


As paper form I mean completely paper, no eyes, no face etc

But with her paper wings she can get caught in genjutsu just fine (Obito fight)

and I know she can use her form instantly, but she won't need to since she has no info on genjutsu from Kakashi


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 15, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> As paper form I mean completely paper, no eyes, no face etc
> 
> But with her paper wings she can get caught in genjutsu just fine (Obito fight)
> 
> and I know she can use her form instantly, but she won't need to since she has no info on genjutsu from Kakashi



When she starts the justu her while body is made out of paper, the face you see is just a way to show that your there (please read my post about how her technique works I wrote it about 2 weeks ago) also the only way she can possibly get caught in genjutsu is if she runs out of chakra which in turn will make her human again (leaving her vulnerable) , and Konan always uses her shikigami no mai...that's her signature jutsu...without it she's zetsu level


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 15, 2017)

Gohara said:


> @ Nightingale.
> 
> I doubt that any of them in any of those match ups used all of their techniques. Part of the Kakashi vs. Obito match up was partially off screen, though, so who's to say what techniques they didn't use?
> 
> ...



Cheating dose not equal prep wtf......
Anyways once again you have not explained how Kakashi will kill Konan, literally all you do is compare characters and mention portrayal...and in this case the characters you mentioned aren't even the same damn version  (Obito having the the RINNEGAN and his HAX could've easily killed Kakashi but Obito choose t use Taijutsu and katon instead....)


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## t0xeus (Feb 15, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> When she starts the justu her while body is made out of paper, the face you see is just a way to show that your there (please read my post about how her technique works I wrote it about 2 weeks ago) also the only way she can possibly get caught in genjutsu is if she runs out of chakra which in turn will make her human again (leaving her vulnerable) , and Konan always uses her shikigami no mai...that's her signature jutsu...without it she's zetsu level


What?

If Kishimoto gave her eyes to look at the enemy with, she can get caught into genjutsu.

Kishimoto thinks like a child, don't think he made Shikigami no Mai so complex.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 15, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> What?
> 
> If Kishimoto gave her eyes to look at the enemy with, she can get caught into genjutsu.
> 
> Kishimoto thinks like a child, don't think he made Shikigami no Mai so complex.



It makes perfect sense, Konan uses Yang Release with her paper meaning her life force/senses are instilled within her paper therefore in her paper form she can not get effected by Genjutsu. And when you see Konan's full body that's simply her showing her human form but she is still very much in her paper form she also gathers all of her paper into one when talking to someone ...don't think one sheet of paper will be very intimidating and or deadly


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## t0xeus (Feb 15, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> It makes perfect sense, Konan uses Yang Release with her paper meaning her life force/senses are instilled within her paper therefore in her paper form she can not get effected by Genjutsu. And when you see Konan's full body that's simply her showing her human form but she is still very much in her paper form she also gathers all of her paper into one when talking to someone ...don't think one sheet of paper will be very intimidating and or deadly


She can turn only parts of her body into paper while leaving other parts of her bodies such as face in a normal human form. That's what she usually does and that's what databook says.


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## Lord Aizen (Feb 15, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> Kakashi a one trick pony? Not even close lmao. One trick pony would be someone like Obito who purely relies on his hax technique, while Kakashi is known as a guy who has 1000 jutsus.
> 
> He can just use genjutsu on Konan right off the bat, she has shown no counter against it if she's not in her Shikigami no Mai form, which she has no reason to enter from the start.
> 
> She probably begins with spamming some paper attacks on Kakashi with her paper wings, while Kakashi puts her into genjutsu.



he has 1000 jutsus but he only uses earth wall, raikiri, raikiri variants, a shadow clone, and kamui. Raikiri variants are pointless against konan so hes not wasting his chakra on that. all kakashi does is weight till the enemy cant see him, replaces himself with a clone, allows the enemy to attack the clone then comes from hiding to raikiri the enemy. konans attack partner dont allow that to happen.

If it was that simple obito would've done it to konan. shes smarter than that, she created a full proof strategy that beat kamui. She's more than fully aware to avoid sharingan genjutsu. kakashi isnt good enough to use genjutsu in the middle of high level combat, hes never done it.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 15, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> She can turn only parts of her body into paper while leaving other parts of her bodies such as face in a normal human form. That's what she usually does and that's what databook says.



No it states that "every part of Konan's body begins to peel away when the jutsu is invoked"


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## t0xeus (Feb 15, 2017)

Lord Aizen said:


> he has 1000 jutsus but he only uses earth wall, raikiri, raikiri variants, a shadow clone, and kamui. Raikiri variants are pointless against konan so hes not wasting his chakra on that. all kakashi does is weight till the enemy cant see him, replaces himself with a clone, allows the enemy to attack the clone then comes from hiding to raikiri the enemy. konans attack partner dont allow that to happen.


Well even those few techniques make him quite the opposite of one trick pony.

OTP would be someone like Obito that I've mentioned, who uses 99% of time just Kamui. Or Ay.



> If it was that simple obito would've done it to konan.


impossible, she has done research on his abilities

if she got caught in genjutsu right off the bat her statement that she studied his abilities well would be quite comical lol



> shes smarter than that, she created a full proof strategy that beat kamui. She's more than fully aware to avoid sharingan genjutsu.


she has no prep here and only manga knowledge tho



> kakashi isnt good enough to use genjutsu in the middle of high level combat, hes never done it.


he never fought any opponent that wouldn't be aware of Sharingan genjutsu

in P2 he fought
Itachi who is better in genjutsu
Kakuzu/Hidan which was 1v2 so genjutsu was impossible
Pein who is most likely immune to genjutsu because of Rinnengan, or there was really no chance to counterattack by genjutsu
Sasuke who's again better in genjutsu
and then ETs which was mostly off-paneled
and then Obito who's another Sharingan user



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> No it states that "every part of Konan's body begins to peel away when the jutsu is invoked"


that is the sentence next to a picture which shows her face turning into paper

that's not the form I am talking about

am talking about  when her face is fully intact

why would she keep it like this if it serves no purpose?

Reactions: Like 1


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 15, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> Well even those few techniques make him quite the opposite of one trick pony.
> 
> OTP would be someone like Obito that I've mentioned, who uses 99% of time just Kamui. Or Ay.
> 
> ...



She uses that form to gain better senses and focus on one target that's why she gathers her paper in to a larger form such as the image you showed me like one sheet of paper wouldnt be capable of killing a shinobi and or intimate one. So this image shows when Konan spread out through the village to look for Jiraiya, so she was literally using thousands of vessels at once (using all of her senses at once without any organs because her use of Yang Release) 

This is a good example of what Konan sees when her paper is spread out. So she focuses all of her senses and paper in one form when talking to someone she wants information from or to fight a capable shinobi such as Obito and Jiraiya another example of when you see her face is when she tries to blow Obito and herself up...as you can see her paper took all the damage but her human form doesn't get effected what so ever so this will also apply to genjutsu..... Paper form(Yang Release) > human form(no Yang Release)


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## t0xeus (Feb 16, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> She uses that form to gain better senses and focus on one target that's why she gathers her paper in to a larger form such as the image you showed me like one sheet of paper wouldnt be capable of killing a shinobi and or intimate one. So this image shows when Konan spread out through the village to look for Jiraiya, so she was literally using thousands of vessels at once (using all of her senses at once without any organs because her use of Yang Release)
> 
> This is a good example of what Konan sees when her paper is spread out. So she focuses all of her senses and paper in one form when talking to someone she wants information from or to fight a capable shinobi such as Obito and Jiraiya another example of when you see her face is when she tries to blow Obito and herself up...as you can see her paper took all the damage but her human form doesn't get effected what so ever so this will also apply to genjutsu..... Paper form(Yang Release) > human form(no Yang Release)


you're making it too complicated

if we see her eyes, she gets caught in genjutsu that focuses on eyes

unless there is a scan or databook statement that says otherwise


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 16, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> you're making it too complicated
> 
> if we see her eyes, she gets caught in genjutsu that focuses on eyes
> 
> unless there is a scan or databook statement that says otherwise



Not that complicated... there's even evidence that supports everything I just stated....not everything haves to be said in a statement directly for it to be true lol...we do this all the time and you just seem to be grasping on one of the only ways Kakashi can kill Konan... and the only one who's really making it complicated is you...like she's literally all paper when in Shikigami no mai meaning she haves no organs to get caught in genjutsu and you seeing eyes dosent mean that's her human eyes...like seriously look at the scan above were Obito haves 1 arm (look at Konan's eyes...there clearly paper)


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## t0xeus (Feb 16, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Not that complicated... there's even evidence that supports everything I just stated....not everything haves to be said in a statement directly for it to be true lol...we do this all the time and you just seem to be grasping on one of the only ways Kakashi can kill Konan... and the only one who's really making it complicated is you...like she's literally all paper when in Shikigami no mai meaning she haves no organs to get caught in genjutsu and you seeing eyes dosent mean that's her human eyes...like seriously look at the scan above were Obito haves 1 arm (look at Konan's eyes...there clearly paper)


Where do her organs disappear to?

If she sees, it means she has eyes and brain to process the vision - so she can get caught into genjutsu. It's simple as that. Especially when Kishimoto takes it even further and makes her face fully visible.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 16, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> Where do her organs disappear to?
> 
> If she sees, it means she has eyes and brain to process the vision - so she can get caught into genjutsu. It's simple as that. Especially when Kishimoto takes it even further and makes her face fully visible.



YANG RELEASE  (she instills her life force inside her chakra infused paper...meaning her paper haves her thoughts, senses, life force side side it so she's still paper....)

Yang Release- 
Breathe life into a form...Konan is a great example of this with her paper


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## t0xeus (Feb 16, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> YANG RELEASE  (she instills her life force inside her chakra infused paper...meaning her paper haves her thoughts, senses, life force side side it so she's still paper....)
> 
> Yang Release-
> Breathe life into a form...Konan is a great example of this with her paper


Kishi didn't give Shikigamo no Mai Yang release classification in the databook. It's just a random ninjutsu using normal chakra.

And don't say that it was because Kishi didn't think it through at that part of manga, because he cared enough to go back and say that Ino-Shika-Cho are using ying and yang release for an example and gave it theirs classification through manga.

In order for your theory to work, her technique would have to be Yin-Yang release. She would have to create shape (the paper) from nothingness and then breathe life into it.

Yang release alone works differently.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 16, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> Kishi didn't give Shikigamo no Mai Yang release classification in the databook. It's just a random ninjutsu using normal chakra.
> 
> And don't say that it was because Kishi didn't think it through at that part of manga, because he cared enough to go back and say that Ino-Shika-Cho are using ying and yang release for an example and gave it theirs classification through manga.
> 
> ...



Omg... Ok please explain this, because she's literally using all of her senses for all the paper shes using and her body is nowhere to be found....and when she invokes the justu you clearly see every inch of her body transform into paper just like the databook stated and Konan dose create the paper... and she's obviously breathes life into it...otherwise how would she survive being divided into thousands of sheets of paper?


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## t0xeus (Feb 16, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Omg... Ok please explain this, because she's literally using all of her senses for all the paper shes using and her body is nowhere to be found....and when she invokes the justu you clearly see every inch of her body transform into paper just like the databook stated and Konan dose create the paper... and she's obviously breathes life into it...otherwise how would she survive being divided into thousands of sheets of paper?


How does she create the paper?

Creating something out of nothing is yin-yang release. Only Rikudo Sennin has that kind of ability.

See? It doesn't make sense to put elements that Kishimoto introduced into the manga in later stages. Same thing as Kawarimi no Jutsu makes literally no sense, or Bunshin no Jutsu.

From what we know or have deduced, things or people that can see can get caught into ocular genjutsu. If Kishimoto takes it even further and actually gives the creature eyes so the user knows where to cast genjutsu exactly - it means there's no way genjutsu wouldn't work.

Same thing with people thinking Sasori can get caught into genjutsu.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 16, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> How does she create the paper?
> 
> Creating something out of nothing is yin-yang release. Only Rikudo Sennin has that kind of ability.
> 
> ...



She creates the paper from shikigami no mai...she doesn't carry the paper around lol and stating that you see eyes is not telling me why she would get caught into genjutsu.... we've seen Konan's eyes (actually paper) not there before...yet she still can fight perfectly and after her paper form ran out due to her cost of chakra ...we see her whole body including her eyes intact. So once again her paper takes the damage (that includes genjutsu because it requires organs)


(Shes not in her paper form here....both of her eyes are there.... this is why Obito put her into a genjutsu because she was vulnerable in her human form) 
 and about Sasori...he's also immune to genjutsu because he lacks the required organs which would be a brain (he's literally a puppet)


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## Ishmael (Feb 16, 2017)

Kamui GG as stated before in shikigami no mai form she's larger then the missile a close to death kakashi warped with accuracy while it was moving. She'll be large enough and easier for him to pin point and send her off, GG.


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## Turrin (Feb 16, 2017)

Mithos said:


> What about his speed or quickness is going to be a big problem for her? Kakashi's speed alone hasn't been much of a problem for any of the Akatsuki or Kage level ninja he's fought in Part II. Konan would have a difficult time hitting Kakashi for sure because of KB and precognition, but I have a hard time seeing him win when his main form of offense - KB feints/trickery + Raikiri - is rendered ineffective before her splitting.
> 
> Kakashi hasn't shown a lot of potent mid- or long-range elemental ninjutsu, and the ones he has shown haven't been on the scale I think is necessary to significantly threaten Konan when she can disperse. Most of his attacks would be evaded, met head-on with paper attacks, or fail to destroy enough paper to do much damage.
> 
> Konan would have a tough battle, but she should win in my opinion. Her offense is more effective against Kakashi than his is against her.


I agree completely with this.


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## t0xeus (Feb 16, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> She creates the paper from shikigami no mai...she doesn't carry the paper around lol and stating that you see eyes is not telling me why she would get caught into genjutsu.... we've seen Konan's eyes (actually paper) not there before...yet she still can fight perfectly and after her paper form ran out due to her cost of chakra ...we see her whole body including her eyes intact. So once again her paper takes the damage (that includes genjutsu because it requires organs)
> 
> 
> (Shes not in her paper form here....both of her eyes are there.... this is why Obito put her into a genjutsu because she was vulnerable in her human form)
> and about Sasori...he's also immune to genjutsu because he lacks the required organs which would be a brain (he's literally a puppet)


Ok, whatever makes you feel better about her. Kishimoto clearly portrayed her rank in Akatsuki.

Most people here disagree with Sasori being immune to genjutsu, I think it's only like 2 or 3 users claiming otherwise.

I bet the result would be similar with Konan's genjutsu immunity, maybe actually even more in favor of people claiming she can get caught in genjutsu.

You can create a thread with voting poll for that if you want.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 16, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> Ok, whatever makes you feel better about her. Kishimoto clearly portrayed her rank in Akatsuki.
> 
> Most people here disagree with Sasori being immune to genjutsu, I think it's only like 2 or 3 users claiming otherwise.
> 
> ...



Not sure what you mean with portrayal lol Kishimoto named her the Angle of a God, she defeated Han Jinchuuriki by herself, she went up against the main antagonist at that point, she was part of the original Akatsuki and she took care of Nagato's handy cap ass ( and not sure why your acting somewhat ignore, like I'm taking the time to tell you how her technique works with full proof and your just being in denial simply because you just don't want to admit that she's actually a more capable character then you have been thinking and about the voting... there just going to be more people like you cough cough in denial...but I'll be happy to explain to everyone how her jutsu works  (and if your wondering why I support Konan...it's because people need to know the actual facts rather then false information that's been in people's heads the whole time such as yourself


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## t0xeus (Feb 16, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Not sure what you mean with portrayal lol Kishimoto named her the Angle of a God,


Angel of God because she has wings and because she's the right hand of a god (Nagato)



> she defeated Han Jinchuuriki by herself,


source?



> she went up against the main antagonist at that point,


with full knowledge on Kamui and after god-knows-how-long prep

but I agree, Konan with prep is high tier but what character wouldn't be with that amount of prep, right?



> she was part of the original Akatsuki


didn't they take anyone who was against the terrorizing system of their nation at that time? strongest members were Nagato&Yahiko IIRC



> and she took care of Nagato's handy cap ass


exactly, that's the role Kishi gave her

she's not a fighter (when she stood up against Jiraiya, she was dealt with in few seconds and Pein took her role in the fight)
she's a caretaker of Nagato that supports his decisions

she's below most Akatsuki members, that is why she was never on any mission and just took care of Nagato

she was never viewed as a weapon, but more like moral support for Nagato

not to take anything from her, she's still one of top tiers in women category of Naruto

but if Kishimoto really wanted her to shine, he had several chances

either in Akatsuki missions, in Konoha invasion or in the Obito fight to show she's not helpless without prep

he didn't do it and you can't ignore that Kishimoto simply doesn't want her to be a top tier that can keep up with Konoha's finests (Kakashi) and make up theories about her technique making her immune to genjutsu, her possessing Yang-release etc

that seems to me like you are in denial and can't accept what Kishimoto clearly portrayed, no offense


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 16, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> Angel of God because she has wings and because she's the right hand of a god (Nagato)
> 
> 
> source?
> ...



So in your mind, portrayal - really doesn't show the full potential of a character and it all depends on how the person reading the manga takes the information > feats that Kishimoto gave to us (sure not obvious but if you take the time to do the research then you will understand) lol ....yeah keep ignoring the shit I showed you and pay attention to portrayal....keep shrugging it off like it doesn't effect your points and once again everything I told you I supported by the I scans proved


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## Dano (Feb 16, 2017)

Konan. Such a waste of character, she even gave Naruto a bouquet but he never remembered afterwards and continued to even remember Obito as one of the ninjas shaping NV history. Her murderer.

I'll give this to Konan.


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## t0xeus (Feb 16, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> So in your mind, portrayal - really doesn't show the full potential of a character and it all depends on how the person reading the manga takes the information > feats that Kishimoto gave to us (sure not obvious but if you take the time to do the research then you will understand) lol ....yeah keep ignoring the shit I showed you and pay attention to portrayal....keep shrugging it off like it doesn't effect your points and once again everything I told you I supported by the I scans proved


I take both feats&portrayal into consideration and Konan appears as high jonin tier with no prep.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 16, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> I take both feats&portrayal into consideration and Konan appears as high jonin tier with no prep.



She can defeat any high jonin I can think of....Asuma, Kabuto, Zabuza, Chojuro, Kimimaro, Kurenai, Base Gai, Kankuro, Temari, the lists go's on so she's at least Kage level....yes even w/o prep


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## t0xeus (Feb 16, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> She can defeat any high jonin I can think of....Asuma, Kabuto, Zabuza, Chojuro, Kimimaro, Kurenai, Base Gai, Kankuro, Temari, the lists go's on so she's at least Kage level....yes even w/o prep


High jonin people for me would be smth like
P1 Kakashi
Darui
Kushina
P1 Tsunade (no byakugo)
Hidan
War Arc Temari
War Arc Kankuro
Juugo
Suigetsu

and I don't see them being defeated, at least most of them

Kurenai, Asuma, Zabuza, Chojuro are mid jonins at best for me
while Kimi is low kage


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 16, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> High jonin people for me would be smth like
> P1 Kakashi
> Darui
> Kushina
> ...



Lmao kill me now.....what universe can any of them kill Konan...please explain I'm so curious into why think they have a chance in hell like even if you gave some of them prep time she still would kick there ass


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## t0xeus (Feb 16, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Lmao kill me now.....what universe can any of them kill Konan...please explain I'm so curious into why think they have a chance in hell like even if you gave some of them prep time she still would kick there ass


P1 Kakashi genjutsu's
Darui uses Suiton+Raiton combo to burn her paper
Kushina seals her
P1 Tsunade helps with Katsuyu
Hidan probably loses
War Arc Temari blows her paper into little pieces
Kankuro burns her with Sasori's puppet
Juugo rampages and blasts her away with the cannon technique
Suigetsu outlasts


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 16, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> P1 Kakashi genjutsu's
> Darui uses Suiton+Raiton combo to burn her paper
> Kushina seals her
> P1 Tsunade helps with Katsuyu
> ...




Kakashi- not sure why your saying Genjutsu like if it were Itachi or Sasuke...especially at this point he doesn't use Genjutsu to put down an opponent...especially someone on Akatsuki lvl...come on I think you know better then that. But even if it was Kakashi's character to put someone like Konan in to a Genjutsu it wouldint work as I explained earlier 

Darui- Suiton alone wouldint do anything, Raiton alone wouldn't do anything...a combination might cause it to get stunned but getting destroyed...no, even if a portion of her paper were to get destroyed she can always produce more easily. And his sword attacks will make her laugh so honestly she can just outlast and her ability to fly makes this even easier.

Kushina- not sure why you think she's high jonin but seriously she haves no chance in sealing Konan....her paper goes by the thousands so Kushina will be overwhelmed easily.

Tsunade P1 with no Byakugo? - even if she summons her only save in grace she still can die lol she eventually haves to rely on herself to try killing Konan and once she's out of Katsuyu she's done for because she will be blown to bits without Byakugo lol 

Temari- really she blows her paper into pieces..... can she blow metal into pieces to? 

Kankuro- really he will have to completely rely on one ability that can easily be dispatched.... Sasori's flamethrowers lol anyways she can regenerate more paper and blitz Kankuro with all of her paper

Juugo- hes going to survive long enough for him to activate the curse mark? Lol even if he does the cannon isn't destroying all of her paper.... not even sure what element it is but I wouldn't even have to look into that but seriously he's going to get overwhelmed by her paper and she can ignore all of his main attacks which rely on CQC which will do absolutely nothing to her paper

Suigetsu- No...more like she outlasts him wtf lol you really think she's that stupid to get outlasted by him...

Seriously me reading how you view Konan is ridiculous like honestly you need to get over whatever grudge you have on Konan or me because seriously I bet you 90% of people will say that Konan can beat all those people you listed


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## Ishmael (Feb 16, 2017)

Where do you guys rank konan on the tier list.


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## Bonly (Feb 16, 2017)

t0xeus said:


> Where do her organs disappear to?
> 
> If she sees, it means she has eyes and brain to process the vision - so she can get caught into genjutsu. It's simple as that. Especially when Kishimoto takes it even further and makes her face fully visible.



They disappear into paper or whatever as that's what the jutsu does. Look at Suigetsu for another example of this. He has a jutsu that turns him completely into water. Now when Karin stomps his head off do you think she actually crushes his brains and his eyes and his nose, breaks his teeth etc. thus killing him as his brain and others would be destroyed or do you think that Kishi didn't account for that as the jutsu turns everything into water thus Suigetsu's head with everything in it would be completely fine? Chances are it's the latter so even if it doesn't make sense to you, Kishi has indeed shown when it comes to jutsu like these, they turn everything into water/paper so Night's point does have some ground to stand on.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 16, 2017)

La presagio said:


> Where do you guys rank konan on the tier list.



This is mixed with legit Kage and the Akatsuki....

High-Kage-
Naruto
Hashirama
Nagato (healthy)
Tobirama
Minato
Nagato(6 paths)
Muu
Itachi
Obito(no Rinnegan)
Gengetsu
AAA

Mid-Kage-
Jiraiya  (w/SM)
Konan (yes w/o prep)
Onoki
Tsunade
AAAA
Orochimaru (no edo)
Sasori
Yagura
Mei/Kisame
Kakuzu
Garra

Low-Kage-
Deidara
3rd Kazekage
Rasa
Sarutobi
Granny Chyio (ik she's not a legit kage)
Hidan

High jonin....

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ishmael (Feb 16, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> This is mixed with legit Kage and the Akatsuki....
> 
> High-Kage-
> Naruto
> ...



Wait wait is this list ranked?? In order or no? And you have her that high in mid kage without prep?


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 16, 2017)

La presagio said:


> Wait wait is this list ranked?? In order or no? And you have her that high in mid kage without prep?




Yes it's in order 

Her paper form is what's makes her that high, her regeneration is better then Tsunades, water, wind, most lightning and earth techniques won't work on her, visual and audio genjutsu can't work on her, she can fly in all different directions, if in danger she can hide with her camoflage that deceived the Hyuga clan and the sharingan. Her offensive capabilities allows her to access thousands of sheets of paper that are hard as steel and paper tags that can easily taken an enemy of guard....such as Obito, she can also overwhelm shinobi with her sheer amount of paper and prevent there movement completely and suffocate them to death. And all of this is done without her human form getting effected at all


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## Ishmael (Feb 16, 2017)

Kakazu and gaara are over konan and possess the abilities to beat her in combat.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 16, 2017)

La presagio said:


> Kakazu and gaara are over konan and possess the abilities to beat her in combat.



Yes Kakuzu possess katon but he will have to fully rely on that which won't workout to well because once that one mask is gone she shouldn't have any more trouble as far as being in danger, now for Gaara... she wouldn't get damaged by his sand, blunt damage such as sand coffin will be useless because paper is flexible and her paper can work just fine under billions of paper stacked up on each other(shit load of wight)


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## Gohara (Feb 20, 2017)

@ Nightingale.

Cheating, cheap shots, underhanded tactics, etc.. It doesn't necessarily matter what you call it. My point is that I don't think that it counts as part of power levels.

I know that they're different versions, but again Rinnegan Obito is a more powerful version. I already responded to the point that Rinnegan Obito wasn't shown using all of his techniques in that match up.


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 20, 2017)

The only way he can beat her is with a large Kamui variant. 

He needs time to charge that version of Kamui, problem being we don't even know if he can use the large variation yet as he only used it in the War-arc against Gedo Mazo. 

He can buy the time with bunshin and digging, but if he can't produce the large variation on Konan's main body when most of her attacking paper is separated from her (like after Jiraiya destroyed most of her paper with katon and only she was left), he'll be outlasted by Konan.


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## Serene Grace (Feb 20, 2017)

Kakashi finds Konan, similar to how Obito did, and sends her to the box land its that simple

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Serene Grace (Feb 20, 2017)

@NightingaleOfShadows 
What's so funny?


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## Ishmael (Feb 20, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> @NightingaleOfShadows
> What's so funny?




Exactly like wtf half my post were funny from him and I didn't even attempt to joke around.


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## Serene Grace (Feb 20, 2017)

La presagio said:


> Exactly like wtf half my post were funny from him and I didn't even attempt to joke around.


I'm just interested  what he thought  was funny. I said Kakashi would see through her jutsu, similar to how Obito did then send her to the boxland. I don't see how that's funny, if kakashi finds the real Konan, then sends a big chunk of her and her paper to the box land then when she goes back into her "human form" she'd likely be losing a head, arm, leg etc, since..well she's the paper, if she turns into the paper and the paper gets sent to the box land, then the body part that transformed into the paper sent to the box land would disappear as well. We're hella certain that Konan isn't clone feinting kakashi as she lacks the speed to do such, so I don't see how Konan is getting around kamui

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ishmael (Feb 20, 2017)

Kakashi Kamui ends it here there's not much else to say, he uses clone feints extremely well and it's a big part of his arsenal. 

He was shown using it twice during the pein arc from what I've read so he has two chances.

In shikigami no mai she's in a big form of an angel and kakashi has warped smaller, moving things in the pein arc. 

One shot honestly puts her down imo he had the skill and proficiency to warp moving things that were smaller I see no issue with him warping something way bigger.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 20, 2017)

[


The Death & The Strawberry said:


> I'm just interested  what he thought  was funny. I said Kakashi would see through her jutsu, similar to how Obito did then send her to the boxland. I don't see how that's funny, if kakashi finds the real Konan, then sends a big chunk of her and her paper to the box land then when she goes back into her "human form" she'd likely be losing a head, arm, leg etc, since..well she's the paper, if she turns into the paper and the paper gets sent to the box land, then the body part that transformed into the paper sent to the box land would disappear as well. We're hella certain that Konan isn't clone feinting kakashi as she lacks the speed to do such, so I don't see how Konan is getting around kamui



It's funny because you actually think Konan's justu is an illusion 
....and people say I make stuff up my ass never once ive herd something like that about Konan

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Serene Grace (Feb 20, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> [
> 
> 
> It's funny because you actually think Konan's justu is an illusion
> ....and people say I make stuff up my ass never once ive herd something like that about Konan


yet you failed to actually address my argument, and just completely ignored it and wrote your own bs. Though what could I expect from the guy who thinks konan controlling paper is a strength feat.

Doesn't matter if Konans jutsu isn't an illusion, the moment she goes into her "human form" she gets kamui gg'd, or a big chunk of her gets sent to the boxland. He can easily catch her off guard with his elite clone feinting, which then leads to her losing an arm, leg, or a torso even. Don't quote me for anything related to Konan again, please it feels like I'm banging my head when I'm arguing with you on the matter. Though everyone said I'm right but I guess I'm the crazy one


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 20, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> yet you failed to actuality address my argument, and just completely ignored it and wrote your own bs. Though what could I expect from the guy who thinks konan controlling paper is a strength feat.
> 
> Doesn't matter if Konans jutsu isn't an illusion, the moment she goes into her "human form" she gets kamui gg'd, or a big chunk of her gets sent to the boxland. Don't quote me for anything related to Konan again, please it feels like I'm banging my head when I'm arguing in with you.



Well I originally was using the paper ocean feat for Gaaras sand because 1 sheet was lifting and dealing with tons of weight and pressure and her body parts would still be there if Kakashi used Kamui...a good example would be when she tried to kill herself she used her paper regeneration and you see her human body intact and not harmed at all


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 20, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> yet you failed to actuality address my argument, and just completely ignored it and wrote your own bs. Though what could I expect from the guy who thinks konan controlling paper is a strength feat.
> 
> Doesn't matter if Konans jutsu isn't an illusion, the moment she goes into her "human form" she gets kamui gg'd, or a big chunk of her gets sent to the boxland. He can easily catch her off guard with his elite clone feinting, which then leads to her losing an arm, leg, or a torso even. Don't quote me for anything related to Konan again, please it feels like I'm banging my head when I'm arguing with you on the matter. Though everyone said I'm right but I guess I'm the crazy one



Everyone said your right?
yeah ok.....like 4 people


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## Serene Grace (Feb 20, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> a good example would be when she tried to kill herself she used her paper regeneration and you see her human body intact and not harmed at all


This is the shit I'm talking about, Konan survived because Obito absorbed the explosion, had he not absorbed it she would be DEAD, everyone agrees with this, how hard is this for you to understand..



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Everyone said your right?
> yeah ok.....like 4 people


All of which are better debaters that you, and have a better analysis on the manga than you..yeah OK their more far credible than most of the people her, and far more credible than you



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> her body parts would still be there if Kakashi used Kamui...


...Konan turns into the paper...if the paper gets sent to the boxland, she gets sent to the boxland too...-_- come on, this is sad



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Well I originally was using the paper ocean feat for Gaaras sand because 1 sheet was lifting and dealing with tons of weight and pressure


...-_- how is that a testimony to her physical strength...you do know what physical strength is? How does that have any relevance to this match, she was prepping paper for months, she won't have nearly as much paper in an actual battle..

Reactions: Like 1


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 20, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> This is the shit I'm talking about, Konan survived because Obito absorbed the explosion, had he not absorbed it she would be DEAD, everyone agrees with this, how hard is this for you to understand..
> 
> 
> All of which are better debaters that you, and have a better analysis on the manga than you..yeah OK there far credible than most of the people her, and far more credible than you
> ...



Omfg ik she was gonna die, Obito absorbed most of it...meaning there was still an explosion that impact the both of them...you even saw her paper form get damaged...yet when her justu stopped her human form was not harmed at all


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## Serene Grace (Feb 20, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Omfg ik she was gonna die, Obito absorbed most of it...


Wrong. Thats a mistranslation. In the actual translation obito said "though I did get hurt a bit" he never referred to how much he absorbed, ever. Konan was unharmed because Obito absorbed the explosion, if you don't like it argue with Kishi


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 20, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Wrong. Thats a mistranslation. In the actual translation obito said "though I did get hurt a bit" he never referred to how much he absorbed, ever. Konan was unharmed because Obito absorbed the explosion, if you don't like it argue with Kishi



Well the manga scan I've been reading is different from that look at the same panel  

And looking at the these 2 scans should show you that her paper form got damaged...like idk care what Obito stated... 
like this clearly shows how big the explosion was (the same place where Obito was)  
This shows that her paper got damage...


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## Serene Grace (Feb 20, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Well the manga scan I've been reading is different from that look at the same panel *Spoiler*:


And the manga scan you're showing is a shady, incorrectbmistranslation, whereas I showed you the official translation, which shows Obito saying "though I did get hurt a bit", not " I absorbed most of it". He never made a reference about how much he absorbed.



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> like this clearly shows how big the explosion was (the same place where Obito was)


Dude are you purposely trying annoy me? Because im getting really frustrated having to repeat the SAME shit to you. What does how big the explosion have to do, with this? If Obito stated that he  absorbed the entire explosion, and only got hurt a bit, why the hell are we arguing this? The main point is that Obito absorbed the explosion and said Konan would have died had he not exploded, which he outright stated and, something Konan clearly didn't deny.



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> This shows that her paper got damage...
> *Spoiler*:


-_- those could either be the explosive tags that were set, or the paper that she controls around her like I said. What basis do you have to suggest that the paper there, was the one Konan put her life force in?


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## Ishmael (Feb 20, 2017)

Someone please lock this shit I'm getting annoyed and I'm not even debating, thread is fucked now.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 20, 2017)

La presagio said:


> Someone please lock this shit I'm getting annoyed and I'm not even debating, thread is fucked now.



Boy this is my thread the fuck if this where yours then I would respect your thread and not fill it with extra shit especially when you address it soooo if you don't want anymore notifications from this thread then click the un watch button


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## Ishmael (Feb 20, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Boy this is my thread the fuck if this where yours then I would respect your thread and not fill it with extra shit especially when you address it soooo if you don't want anymore notifications from this thread then click the un watch button




 Thread is shit now and filled with repetitive arguments.

Reactions: Like 2


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 20, 2017)

@Icelerate can you please explain what really happened during the fight with Obito and Konan (the scans where Konan was trying to blow Obito and herself up)please read above for more info for what Strawberry thinks because it's annoying my shit that he actually thinks what he wrote is true

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 20, 2017)

La presagio said:


> Thread is shit now and filled with repetitive arguments.



Repetitive arguments because we both have to explain are points over and over again

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Serene Grace (Feb 20, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Strawberry thinks because it's annoying my shit that he actually thinks what he wrote is true


5 other posters (all of which are better debaters than you, and clearly have a better analysis on the manga than you) agreed..so ggAd hominem doesn't make your points look any less stupid, or laughable. Next time quote me like a man.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 20, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> 5 other posters (all of which are better debaters than you, and clearly have a better analysis on the manga than you) agreed..so ggAd hominem doesn't make your points look any less stupid, or laughable. Next time quote me like a man.



No they agreed that Obito grabbed Konan not if Konan was damaged by the explosion or not and I wouldn't act all confident about this argument because all your showing is a fucking statement that Obito said

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Serene Grace (Feb 20, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Konan was damaged by the explosion or not and I wouldn't act all confident about this argument because all your showing is a fucking statement that Obito said


Why would they need to outright say they agree on that, its common sense what the fuck, Obito said Konan would have died, and Konan didn't deny, nor did she argue with the statement, please tell me you know what context is lmfao. You also do understand that you're contradicting yourself right? You're saying Obito's statement about konan dying if he didn't absorb it is true, yet you say she can't get hurt, by what hits her paper and let me repeat this *when she's the fucking paper..*
how you don't see how hilarious that notion is beyond me. I'm also using statements from the manga, while you're using what? A baseless assumption? Gtfo with that, and stop embarassing yourself with these konan threads they were funny before, but now


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 20, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Why would they need to outright say they agree on that, its common sense what the fuck, Obito said Konan would have died, and Konan didn't deny, nor did she argue with the statement, please tell me you know what context is lmfao. You also do understand that you're contradicting yourself right? You're saying Obito's statement about konan dying if he didn't absorb it is true, yet you say she can't get hurt, by what hits her paper and let me repeat this *when she's the fucking paper..*
> how you don't see how hilarious that notion is beyond me. I'm also using statements from the manga, while you're using what? Baseless assumption? Gtfo with that



If Obito didint absorb most of the explosion she would've died (meaning if he didint absorb anything) since he did absorb most of the explosion she is still alive but she is still very much damage by what explosion there was and think for a second why would the manga show a big ass explosion covering both Konan and Obito and Obito is the only one getting the damage (what you think...which is amazing) and your literally relying on 1 statement.... and I was never contradicting myself you just failed to understand what I'm trying to say and I couldn't care less if I'm embarrassing myself with these threads because once people realize that I'm right....who's gonna look like the fool (I'm just determined if you haven't realized that yet)


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## Serene Grace (Feb 20, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> since he did absorb most of the explosion


Omfg man, I already told you that it was never stated in the original translation that he absorbed most of it, he only said he got hurt a bit., no where did he refer to how much he absorbed so irrelevant point.



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> why would the manga show a big ass explosion covering both Konan and Obito and Obito is the only one getting the damage


Because Obito absorbed the explosion, and took some of the damage in the boxland, -_- or do I have to explain Kamui mechanics to you as well, and only retained a bit of damage, like context says...Like the manga said. You're not seeing the basic context..Obito absorbing the explosion, was what stopped Konan from getting hurt, not just stopping her from dying. The destroyed paper which is shown on the ground, doesn't dictate shit since you have no basis to suggest that the paper wasn't the paper she controls around her, or the paper which was lit by the explosion, and there's also the fact that Obito absorbed the explosion, so he likely absorbed it off of the explosive tag.



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> what you think...which is amazing) and your literally relying on 1 statement....


I'm relying on a statement from the manga, which the character your arguing for didn't deny in anyway, and what do you have? Repetitive refuted points? Headcanon? Mistranslation? Again  gtfo with that 

Keep saying he absorbed most of it, when the official translation says nothing related to thatyou're only embarrassing yourself, man


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## Serene Grace (Feb 20, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> I was never contradicting myself *you just failed *to understand what I'm trying to say and I couldn't care less if I'm embarrassing myself with these threads because once people realize that I'm right....who's gonna look like the fool (I'm just determined if you haven't realized that yet)


The bold is too funnysays the guy who's using mistranslations, as a basis the irony

also who are you convincing? idovincpy, is the only one, and she agrees with anything that has to do with girls. You ain't convincing anybody, tf with that bs. Sadly outside of konan, you're a pretty good debater, but when it comes to her you say laughable stuff such as her controlling paper to be a strength feat, Konan being able to physically overpower sand that Madara needed his V3 susanoo to overpower, and Konan no taking any damage when her paper gets hit, when she's the god damn paper.... I hate being like this, but you're really frustrating the shit out of me, when you ignore shit, that stuffs annoying.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 20, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Omfg man, I already told you that it was never stated in the original translation that he absorbed most of it, he only said he got hurt a bit., no where did he refer to how much he absorbed so irrelevant point.
> 
> 
> Because Obito absorbed the explosion, and took some of the damage in the boxland, -_- or do I have to explain Kamui mechanics to you as well, and only retained a bit of damage, like context says...Like the manga said. You're not seeing the basic context..Obito absorbing the explosion, was what stopped Konan from getting hurt, not just stopping her from dying. The destroyed paper which is shown on the ground, doesn't dictate shit since you have no basis to suggest that the paper wasn't the paper she controls around her, or the paper which was lit by the explosion, and there's also the fact that Obito absorbed the explosion, so he likely absorbed it off of the explosive tag.
> ...



Lord....ok I'm going I'm going to embarrasse myself again by making a thread with this subject and let's see what the people say because everyone ik has always viewed this the way I do, if people actually say that your right rather then me then I will stop making these threads (I really will cuz I hate repeating myself and I'm sure you do to)...and be mature about this I'm honestly trying to make a point


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 20, 2017)

Kakashi can't damage her nor would Kamui provide any leverage at all when Konan can obfuscate Kakashi by dividing into hundreds of fluttering butterflies or obscure his vision with sheets of paper swirling around his LoS. Kakashi simply has no means of winning and is eventually entwined Konan's paper and impaled subsequently or is decimated by Konan's explosives which erased Obito's zetsu arm whilst gravely wounding him in spite of being buffered by Obito's Kamui. Kakashi does not win here and nothing really changes that at all.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Serene Grace (Feb 20, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Lord....ok I'm going I'm going to embarrasse myself again by making a thread with this subject and let's see what the people say because everyone ik has always viewed this the way I do, if people actually say that your right rather then me then I will stop making these threads (I really will cuz I hate repeating myself and I'm sure you do to)...and be mature about this I'm honestly trying to make a point


I honestly don't give a shit if you make the thread, just please make sure I have nothing to do with it

Reactions: Agree 1


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## wooly Eullerex (Feb 22, 2017)

konan beats any ver. of kakashi that isn't susano'o equipped.

she is a better tactician w/ better offense, defense, mobility & duplicity.

his beast runner is intercepted his kamui is fools' gold & bait & his cqc has no chance

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 2


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## Ishmael (Feb 22, 2017)

walpurgis Burgoo said:


> konan beats any ver. of kakashi that isn't susano'o equipped.
> 
> she is a better tactician w/ better offense, defense, mobility & duplicity.
> 
> his beast runner is intercepted his kamui is fools' gold & bait & his cqc has no chance



What the fuck... better tactician??, better offense???, defense if anything I see them on even ground, she has better mobility in shikigami no mai other then that no. She gets one shotted by him outside of shikigami no mai and only way of beating him is outlasting him shikigami no mai.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 22, 2017)

La presagio said:


> What the fuck... better tactician??, better offense???, defense if anything I see them on even ground, she has better mobility in shikigami no mai other then that no. She gets one shotted by him outside of shikigami no mai and only way of beating him is outlasting him shikigami no mai.



She definitely dosent get one shotted with her shikigami no mai and no she more then capable of killing him with her paper... thousands of sheets of paper that are hard as steel.... like we've seen Kakashi get damaged by the average kunai, shuriken, swords,etc...so imagine that going by the thousands + she haves access to paper tags and I really don't see him tanking that. Or Konan can try to overwhelm Kakashi with her paper and end him by suffocation...and I don't really see a way Kakashi can't get of that

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## Serene Grace (Feb 22, 2017)

Konan being a better tactation, than Kakashi
- Konan beating any version of Kakashi, including war arc kurama cloak boost
.man. 


NightingaleOfShadows said:


> her paper... thousands of sheets of paper that are hard as steel....


Her paper projectiles got cleanly reacted to by base Jiraiya, how the hell is it hitting Kakashi who has great speed/reflexes, as well sharingan pre cog? Figures



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Konan can try to overwhelm Kakashi with her paper and end him by suffocation


then she finds out its a clone, and what respectable shinobi has she suffocated with her paper? Just fodder? Figures.

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## Ishmael (Feb 22, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> She definitely dosent get one shotted with her shikigami no mai and no she more then capable of killing him with her paper... thousands of sheets of paper that are hard as steel.... like we've seen Kakashi get damaged by the average kunai, shuriken, swords,etc...so imagine that going by the thousands + she haves access to paper tags and I really don't see him tanking that. Or Konan can try to overwhelm Kakashi with her paper and end him by suffocation...and I don't really see a way Kakashi can't get of that



Didn't say she did in shikigami no mai I said she's gets one shotted outside of it and not even with Kamui clone feint+ raikiri and it's GG there's no way she beats kakashi outside of shikigami no mai at all and she dies very quickly outside of it.

Inside of shikigami no mai a potential one shot could happen as I said before she's a large form of paper in shape of a angel. He had enough skill and proficiency with it to warp a moving missile and and a nail unnoticed that were moving. A larger enemy target shouldn't be much of a problem. That's a Kamui GG.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 22, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Konan being a better tactation, than Kakashi
> - Konan beating any version of Kakashi, including war arc kurama cloak boost
> .man.
> 
> ...



Who said Konan can defeat any version of Kakashi? And Konan wasn't even trying in that fight...she was holding back because that was her sensei (the same goes for Jiraiya) even if you use that fight for anything useful such as how fast her paper projectiles go...they where about 15 meters in distance and Jiraiya was looking right at Konan when she was cooking up the attack so he obviously anticipated that she was cooking up some attack and when she actually did the attack Jiraiya stumbled on the ground and didn't even do a proper dodge and the paper was inches away from hitting him...so if they where any closer to each other she definitely would've hit him. Konan can definitely see if Kakashi is trying to clone faint her especially when she haves paper surrounding him (hundreds of eyes and ears)...suffocation...ok please explain how exactly he will get out of that


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 22, 2017)

La presagio said:


> Didn't say she did in shikigami no mai I said she's gets one shotted outside of it and not even with Kamui clone feint+ raikiri and it's GG there's no way she beats kakashi outside of shikigami no mai at all and she dies very quickly outside of it.
> 
> Inside of shikigami no mai a potential one shot could happen as I said before she's a large form of paper in shape of a angel. He had enough skill and proficiency with it to warp a moving missile and and a nail unnoticed that were moving. A larger enemy target shouldn't be much of a problem. That's a Kamui GG.



When the fuck is she shown fighting without using shikigami no mai lol that literally her signature jutsu...Kakashi can't clone faint her she will have paper surrounding the battlefield (hundreds of eyes and ears)... raikiri will prove to be utterly useless against her as she will just disperse. Kamui...lol she not gonna just stand there...she gonna surround the battlefield with her paper....even if he manages to take a chunk of her paper she can regenerate more


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## Ayala (Feb 22, 2017)

Come on now NightingaleOfShadows, you're making Konan's paper and Konan work like she has shared vision of the Rinnegan. She has shown to do that only in her dispersed form, when searching for Jiraya. That doesn't work once she pulls herself back.

You're also making her sound way more powerful than she probably is, Nagato told her to stand aside twice already, against base Jiraya and SM Naruto. 

Against Jiraya she was told to step aside by Nagato's single body, Animal Path.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Ishmael (Feb 22, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> When the fuck is she shown fighting without using shikigami no mai lol that literally her signature jutsu...Kakashi can't clone faint her she will have paper surrounding the battlefield (hundreds of eyes and ears)... raikiri will prove to be utterly useless against her as she will just disperse. Kamui...lol she not gonna just stand there...she gonna surround the battlefield with her paper....even if he manages to take a chunk of her paper she can regenerate more



If you mean by hundreds of eyes and ears her clones lol...I've never seen a kage bushin instantly share knowledge to the user that usually happens when it disperses. If that was the case you'd see more fighters use it and just let the clone sit there and give the locations and help them dodge atttacks from the opponent. Also @The Death & The Strawberry made a point about Kamui taking a chunk of her already in previous post.


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## Serene Grace (Feb 22, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Konan wasn't even trying in that fight...she was holding back because that was her sensei


Based off what? Pein was Jiraiyas sensei, yet he still stuck 6 rods in his back. It was never stated that Konan was holding back, though you can show me the evidence though, I thought her throwing hundreds of paper metal projectiles at him, would at least give off the obvious. Also just as an extra pointer "I have received orders from him, I will kill you" ....



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> they where about 15 meters in distance


And Kakashi and her are 30 metres away from each other, making it even easier to Dodge. You also say "15 metres" like that's far at all, lol. Jiraiya also started moving after, konan fired her projectiles(meaning it already filled distance), yet he still reacted to it..so yah



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Jiraiya was looking right at Konan when she was cooking up the attack so he obviously anticipated that she was cooking up some attack


whats stopping Kakashi, from anticipating the attack, especially since he has increased perception, and pre cognition due to the sharingan? He already has the speed feats to suggest he reacts to it: Reacted fast enough to Deidara's explosion that he was able to suck it into his Kamui dimension , , and can dig a hole , keeping up with Itachi in CQC, reacting and kamui'ing Sasukes Susanoo arrows, and much, much more. So I doubt he doesn't react to something that Base Jiraiya was able to react and Dodge at a shorter distance. Jiraiya also did react and dodge it pretty cleanly despite Konan firing it before Jiraiya made a movement, so I don't know why you say it "almost" hit him when he started moving after the paper was fired.



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Konan can definitely see if Kakashi is trying to clone faint her especially when she haves paper surrounding him (hundreds of eyes and ears)


Doesn't matter if konan has a 1000 eyes, if each of her eyes aren't fast enough to keep up with Kakashi's hand seals, then she gets feinted, simple as that. He was giving Itachi, and Pein trouble with his clone feinting, so I doubt Konan would be able to do anything



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> suffocation...ok please explain how exactly he will get out of that


By deceiving her, to suffocate a clone, that's how. He was able to trick a much faster Deva path, so I don't see why he couldn't do it to konan who hasn't shown any speed feats, nor the ability to comprehend speed on the level of Kakashi's hand signs


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 22, 2017)

oetsuthebest said:


> Come on now NightingaleOfShadows, you're making Konan's paper and Konan work like she has shared vision of the Rinnegan. She has shown to do that only in her dispersed form, when searching for Jiraya. That doesn't work once she pulls herself back.
> 
> You're also making her sound way more powerful than she probably is, Nagato told her to stand aside twice already, against base Jiraya and SM Naruto.
> 
> Against Jiraya she was told to step aside by Nagato's single body, Animal Path.



Ik she can lol that's why I mentioned it but I should've specified it more. Here  
Nagato only said that because he knew Konan would be emotional about the situation (Jiraiya was her sensei) and as for SM Naruto... never said she can defeat him


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## Parallaxis (Feb 22, 2017)

Let's not forget Kakashi was able to match itachi in clone feints, who is tiers above konan in reactions who got blitzed by an oil spit from jiraiya


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## Serene Grace (Feb 22, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> Let's not forget Kakashi was able to match itachi in clone feints, who is tiers above konan in reactions who got blitzed by an oil spit from jiraiya


but konan somehow magically keeps up with his hand speed that was giving Itachi and Deva path trouble, by separating herself..as if separating herself increases her speed and perception. Tbh Kakashi is criminally underrated here, I'm gonna make a respect thread for him when I got the time

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## Santoryu (Feb 22, 2017)

walpurgis Burgoo said:


> konan beats any ver. of kakashi that isn't susano'o equipped.
> 
> *she is a better tactician *w/ better offense, defense, mobility & duplicity.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Ishmael (Feb 22, 2017)

Wait wait konan holding back...didn't pein tell her to "kill him if you can" in a previous encounter between the two?


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 22, 2017)

I actually agree that Kakashi loses, but the arguments being made in favor of Konan are appalling. You're better off arguing how fruitless Kakashi's bunshin feints have been in battle as opposed to arguing that Konan is bestowed with a form of divine perception relatively on par with Shared Vision.


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## Ayala (Feb 22, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Ik she can lol that's why I mentioned it but I should've specified it more. Here
> Nagato only said that because he knew Konan would be emotional about the situation (Jiraiya was her sensei) and as for SM Naruto... never said she can defeat him



You're inventing some of this man


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## Ishmael (Feb 22, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> but konan somehow magically keeps up with his hand speed that was giving Itachi and Deva path trouble, by separating herself..as if separating herself increases her speed and perception. Tbh Kakashi is criminally underrated here, I'm gonna make a respect thread for him when I got the time




It's sad how underrated he is, especially when peeps say someone like konan who is low rank in the akatsuki would beat him when if he's ranked he's easily mid tier.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 2


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## Parallaxis (Feb 22, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> but konan somehow magically keeps up with his hand speed that was giving Itachi and Deva path trouble, by separating herself..as if separating herself increases her speed and perception. Tbh Kakashi is criminally underrated here, I'm gonna make a respect thread for him when I got the time


Do war arc Kakashi
I see him beating most opponents up till Nagato tier if he is BL
Considering his feats with kamui in the war (warping GM arm before minato could comprehend,warping the entire hachibi for a surprise attack on juubi, etc)

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ishmael (Feb 22, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Based off what? Pein was Jiraiyas sensei, yet he still stuck 6 rods in his back. It was never stated that Konan was holding back, though you can show me the evidence though, I thought her throwing hundreds of paper metal projectiles at him, would at least give off the obvious
> 
> 
> And Kakashi and her are 30 metres away from each other, making it even easier to Dodge. You also say "15 metres" like that's far at all, lol. Jiraiya also started moving after, konan fired her projectiles(meaning it already filled distance), yet he still reacted to it..so yah
> ...



Yep a deva who had asura to assist him with shared vision also but I guess konan has something superior to rinnegan and better then shared vision to keep up with kakashi  even though I've never seen the shit

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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 22, 2017)

Omg you guys lucky I have a fever lmao imma give you guys a link of an analysis of Konan (haves like everything) I didn't make it though the credit goes to @Icelerate there's also proof for EVERYTHING he stated and that I support 

very strong, because of how far he pushed him, not that he was the strongest he's ever fought

@La presagio @The Death & The Strawberry @PhantomSage and anyone else who thinks I'm eating Konan's ass for no reason


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 22, 2017)

La presagio said:


> Yep a deva who had asura to assist him with shared vision also but I guess konan has something superior to rinnegan and better then shared vision to keep up with kakashi  even though I've never seen the shit



Boy check again before you say something like that   

Was looking for Jiraiya in Amegakure

Reactions: Like 1


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## Serene Grace (Feb 22, 2017)

I


NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Omg you guys lucky I have a fever lmao imma give you guys a link of an analysis of Konan (haves like everything) I didn't make it though the credit goes to @Icelerate there's also proof for EVERYTHING he stated and that I support
> 
> very strong, because of how far he pushed him, not that he was the strongest he's ever fought
> 
> @La presagio @The Death & The Strawberry @PhantomSage and anyone else who thinks I'm eating Konan's ass for no reason


Concession accepted

Reactions: Useful 1


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 22, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> I
> 
> Concession accepted



No not at all wtf I'm just not gonna repeat myself over and over again nor do I have the time rn to type all this shit down...especially when 4 people are talking to me at once. You could view what I said as whatever the fuck you want I could care less right now...I gave you a link (I bet you didn't even read it because it's literally gonna prove all your statements about Konan to be false)and I wasn't lying about me being sick...so talk to me when you read what's in the link


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## Serene Grace (Feb 22, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> No not at all wtf I'm just not gonna repeat myself over and over again nor do I have the time rn to type all this shit down...especially when 4 people are talking to me at once. You could view what I said as whatever the fuck you want I could care less right now...I gave you a link (I bet you didn't even read it because it's literally gonna prove all your statements about Konan to be false)and I wasn't lying about me being sick...so talk to me when you read what's in the link


I looked at the link it doesnt show how
:
- Kakashi doesn't evade Konans paper projectiles at 30 m, despite him having amazing speed feats, and sharingan pre cognition, and the fact that base Jiraiya reacted to it, at a shorter distance, a started moving after the paper was fired
- didn't show where Konan was holding back on Jiraiya like you stated, despite her literally outright stating that she's gonna kill him
- you didn't show how Kakashi couldn't "anticipate" Konans attack, like Jiraiya did despite having the sharingan that increases his perception and pre cognition

- Konan spilting herself, doesn't change the fact that her eyes can't physically keep up with Kakashi's hand seals, when Itachi(has the sharingan), and Pein couldn't. She could spilt herself into a million entities, but it would all be useless if her eyes can't percieve what's going on
These points of mine are congested, if you want me to post my full points earlier then just ask
So..concession accepted, you're wrong dude its OK to accept it sometimes


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 23, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> I looked at the link it doesnt show how
> :
> - Kakashi doesn't evade Konans paper projectiles at 30 m, despite him having amazing speed feats, and sharingan pre cognition, and the fact that base Jiraiya reacted to it, at a shorter distance, a started moving after the paper was fired
> - didn't show where Konan was holding back on Jiraiya like you stated, despite her literally outright stating that she's gonna kill him
> ...



Your acting like Kakashi haves a lot of stamina/Chakra to keep dodging and clone fainting Konan...and your forgetting that Konan can easily use paper clones (which Kakashi will fall for) she could either hide some paper tags inside them or use it as a guided attack (the tags)...and I seriously doubt Kakashi is going to dodge an explosion (at least not for long) your also forgetting that Konan can fly which plays a huge role in this battle and my question is how is Kakashi going to do any damage to her minus Kamui  (which he will probably use 2 times in the battle...) and he will have to literally get most of her paper to actually kill her lmao so I really doubt that's going to work


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## Serene Grace (Feb 23, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Your acting like Kakashi haves a lot of stamina/Chakra to keep dodging


What? You need stamina/chakra to react to something? Do you read the stuff you write half of the time? My god



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> clone fainting Konan...


What do you mean keep clone feinting? All he has to do is clone feint her, when she tries to suffocate him, like I said before. Seems like you couldn't answer anything I said, so you decided to type things that aren't related to what we were talking about, at all.



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> and your forgetting that Konan can easily use paper clones (which Kakashi will fall for)


Konan clone feinting Kakashi...since when has Konan had the sufficent speed to clone feint someone with the sharingan, that allows him to track movements? Also didnt know she had speed around Itachis and deva paths. Man I'm putting this in my SIG, I'm sorry..this is by far the most absurd thing that I've ever heard on the forums. Your also referring to something that only happened in the anime, manga Konan has never utilized a clone in an actual battle, especially not against a guy who can not only track movements but already has the speed to keep up with her. Though you can show me the strongest opponent Konan used clones on, if not then STOL with this before you embarras yourself any more than you already have



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> she could either hide some paper tags inside them or use it as a guided attack


Kappanice try, Konan needs to put the explosive tags prior, it doesn't just magically appear in the tags. This is a random occurrence, with both having manga knowledge, what basis do you have to suggest Konan would bring explosive tags prior, show me that basis and then show a scan of Konan using explosive tags in a battle, outside of her having prep...Kappanice try.



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> and I seriously doubt Kakashi is going to dodge an explosion (at least not for long)


Already explained why explosive tags aren't gonna be a factor in this battle above.



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> your also forgetting that Konan can fly which plays a huge role in this battle


whats the point of her flying, when her paper projectiles can be easily reacted to, due to Kakashi's amazing speed/reflexes, and increased perception and precognition due to the sharingan. She has no realistic way of winning, without her explosive tags, and even then she could easily get decieved into exploding a clone, leaving her open for a kamui.



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> and he will have to literally get most of her paper to actually kill her lmao so I really doubt that's going to work


You act as if Kamui'ing most of her paper is hard for him. She isn't reacting to his kamui, as Kakashi was able to literally kamui a point blank explosion, as well as kamui'ing Sasukes arrows which are far faster than anything Konan can throw or react to..so she loses once she gets feinted by Kakashi, leaving her open for kamui she *wont* react to.

I love how you completely shifted the subject to things we weren't even talking about, though I guess that indicates that you couldn't substantiate your arguments, which lead you to have to change the subject..so concession accepted for our the topics we were discussing before this


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 23, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> What? You need stamina/chakra to react to something? Do you read the stuff you write half of the time? My god
> 
> 
> What do you mean keep clone feinting? All he has to do is clone feint her, when she tries to suffocate him, like I said before. Seems like you couldn't answer anything I said, so you decided to type things that aren't related to what we were talking about, at all.
> ...



What's with all the troll faces wtf your acting like a 6 year old, first off Konan's paper clones works differently from regular clones she dosent need to do any hand signs, all she does is manipulate the paper...and please tell me how Kakashi is gonna tell paper from paper? And you keep saying Konan dosent have a realistic way of killing Kakashi...which is literally the stupidest thing I've ever herd cuz all Kakashi haves is....what Kamui and it's not going to kill Konan all he will be hitting is paper clones and chunks of her paper


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## Bonly (Feb 23, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Konan clone feinting Kakashi...since when has Konan had the sufficent speed to clone feint someone with the sharingan, that allows him to track movements? Also didnt know she had speed around Itachis and deva paths. Man I'm putting this in my SIG, I'm sorry..this is by far the most absurd thing that I've ever heard on the forums. Your also referring to something that only happened in the anime, manga Konan has never utilized a clone in an actual battle, especially not against a guy who can not only track movements but already has the speed to keep up with her. Though you can show me the strongest opponent Konan used clones on, if not then STOL with this before you embarras yourself any more than you already have




To be fair they are fighting in destroyed Konoha, that gives her an entire village to fight in with a crapload of buildings and what not to work with, Konoha wouldn't really need pure speed to try and set up a clone to try a feint when she can spread her paper around and reform away from Kakashi so it's not farfetched to think that Konan could pull it off throughout the battle.


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## Serene Grace (Feb 23, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> What's with all the troll faces wtf your acting like a 6 year old,


Because you're saying nonsense like Kakashi needing chakra to react to something, though I'll try my best



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> all she does is manipulate the paper...and please tell me how Kakashi is gonna tell paper from paper?


 We barely even know anything about them, and we barely even know if its IC for her to use it in a battle situation z she didn't use it against Obito when it could have been exteremely helpful, why would she use it now


NightingaleOfShadows said:


> And you keep saying Konan dosent have a realistic way of killing Kakashi...which is literally the stupidest thing I've ever herd


How? I said she has no realistic way of killing Kakashi outside of her explosives, and prep which is true, if you disagree provide a reason instead of ranting about how wrong I am. Her paper suffocation isn't doing shit due to her suffocating a clone, her paper projectiles get easily reacted to, so what does she do?



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> cuz all Kakashi haves is....what Kamui


How does this relate to Konan not having a realistic way of killing Kakashi out side of explosives and prep? Anyways she gets tricked into either suffocating and attacking, a clone, then Kakashi could easily end it with kamui, if she's distracted then she dies to kamui, as she isn't reacting to it, even if she has a hundred eyes, no way in hell is she reacting to something that kamui'd a pointblank explosion, and sasukes Susanoo



Bonly said:


> To be fair they are fighting in destroyed Konoha, that gives her an entire village to fight in with a crapload of buildings and what not to work with, Konoha wouldn't really need pure speed to try and set up a clone to try a feint when she can spread her paper around and reform away from Kakashi so it's not farfetched to think that Konan could pull it off throughout the battle.


Understand what you're saying but I don't see how we can debate on the matter since we haven't actually seen how Konans paper clones would translate to an actual battle situation 



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> what Kamui and it's not going to kill Konan all he will be hitting is paper clones and chunks of her paper


She rarely uses clones, heck she didn't even use it against Obito which would have been exteremely helpful, so I don't see why should would use it against Kakashi, when she won't even know what Kamui can even do in the first place


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 23, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Because you're saying nonsense like Kakashi needing chakra to react to something, though I'll try my best
> 
> 
> We barely even know anything about them, and we barely even know if its IC for her to use it in a battle situation z she didn't use it against Obito when it could have been exteremely helpful, why would she use it now
> ...



Why wouldn't she used a paper clone? She used it during the Pein invasion... what fucking ninja doesn't use some type of clone? How it would translate to a battle situation?...I hope your trolling like this isn't rocket science it's a PAPER+clone  = Paper clone


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## Bonly (Feb 23, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Understand what you're saying but I don't see how we can debate on the matter since we haven't actually seen how Konans paper clones would translate to an actual battle situation



Konan used clones when she and Pain attacked Konoha and I'm pretty sure she used them to fight Jounin and attempt to gain info on Naruto so I don't think it's hard to figure out how her clones would translate in an actual battle

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ishmael (Feb 23, 2017)

Yea uh... @walpurgis Burgoo silent disagree for what?


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## Serene Grace (Feb 23, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Why wouldn't she used a paper clone?


Because she rarely uses it, and didn't even think of using it once against Obito, when it could have been exteremely helpful. You literally have close to nothing about her clones, and how utilizes it in a battle situation.


NightingaleOfShadows said:


> ..I hope your trolling like this isn't rocket science


The guy who says Kakashi needs chakra to react to something calls me a troll, the guy who thinks Konan controlling paper is a strength feat calls me a troll.  rich



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> How it would translate to a battle situation?..


If its so funny then answer what I said, instead of ranting and crying. 
rarely uses clones, heck she didn't even use it against Obito which would have been extremely helpful, so I don't see why should would use it against Kakashi, when she won't even know what Kamui can even do in the first place, nor will she know when its coming.



Bonly said:


> Konan used clones when she and Pain attacked Konoha and I'm pretty sure she used them to fight Jounin and attempt to gain info on Naruto so I don't think it's hard to figure out how her clones would translate in an actual battle


Her using clones against fodder isn't much of a basis as to how effective her clones would be against Kakashi, as well as how it would translate to a battle situation as she used it off panel. We don't even know if she used the clones to fight or not, we don't know how much she used the clones to fight and who she fought it with. There isn't really much of a basis to stand on, in terms of her usage of clones in a battle.



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> what fucking ninja doesn't use some type of clone? How it would translate to a battle situation?...


Read what I wrote to bonly on the matter, it highlights the major premise of my argument

"Her using clones against fodder isn't much of a basis as to how effective her clones would be against Kakashi, as well as how it would translate to a battle situation as she used it off panel. We don't even know if she used the clones to fight or not, we don't know how much she used the clones to fight and who she fought it with. There isn't really much of a basis to stand on, in terms of her usage of clones in a battle."


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## Bonly (Feb 23, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Her using clones against fodder isn't much of a basis as to how effective her clones would be against Kakashi, as well as how it would translate to a battle situation as she used it off panel.




I doubt they would do much besides stall/distract Kakashi for a little bit since they don't have the speed to hit him and what not but with the location being as big as it is, they could be used to attempt a clone feint which Night brought up.




> We don't even know if she used the clones to fight or not,



Really now? She was fighting multiple ninja as she invaded the village and while she was fighting she used clones. Everybody who has used clones like shadow clones or wood clones or water clones, etc. have used them in battle at least once but somehow you think Konan would be the only exception? No offense but common sense has to kick in at some point in time.



> we don't know how much she used the clones to fight and who she fought it with. There isn't really much of a basis to stand on, in terms of her usage of clones in a battle.



Sure you could say we don't know how much she used them in battle but us not knowing the amount of times used doesn't mean she doesn't use them as it's canonly otherwise so there is a basis to stand on if Night wishes to say she'll use a clone. He mentioned her using clones, it's not a stretch to think she can do something as simple as make two clone throughout the battle, it's not like he's saying she'll spam clones constantly or anything.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 23, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Because she rarely uses it, and didn't even think of using it once against Obito, when it could have been exteremely helpful. You literally have close to nothing about her clones, and how utilizes it in a battle situation.
> 
> The guy who says Kakashi needs chakra to react to something calls me a troll, the guy who thinks Konan controlling paper is a strength feat calls me a troll.  rich
> 
> ...



No I actually said stamina/chakra  so before you quote me read what I fucking said... i mean unless Kakashi is on some shit idk about he's using fucking using stamina...troll

And Konan using apart of her (paper) to lift about 1 mill tons is not a strength feat  (she wasn't controlling them individually...if you didn't realize that by now) then idk what you think that is....must me the same shit Kakashi is on ^

And with the clones...really your just pushing it away like you do with other Konan feats, scans, DB pgs, etc for example.... 

Konans Shikigami no Mai - Databook   (you know the one that Kishimoto fucking wrote) you claim that ooo I just gave you (me) like 2 scans of how her jutsu might (KEYWORD MIGHT) work...and now that DB page is useless (false) therefore I'm (you) right
Another thing you claim is that Konan didn't get damaged by this explosion  ....because Obito's statement...but really your pushing it away because it will prove nearly all your statements about Konan false 

And now with the PAPER CLONES really it's pretty fucking self explanatory


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## Serene Grace (Feb 23, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> No I actually said stamina/chakra  so before you quote me read what I fucking said... i mean unless Kakashi is on some shit idk about he's using fucking using stamina...troll


Saying stamina/chakra doesn't make it any stupider the fuck. Kakashi doesn't need chakra nor stamina to evade Konan's paper projectiles that Jiraiya was cleanly reacting to. Evading and dodging something, rely on speed and reflexes..thought this was obvious.



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> And Konan using apart of her (paper) to lift about 1 mill tons is not a strength feat (she wasn't controlling them individually...if you didn't realize that by now) then idk what you think that is....must me the same shit Kakashi is on


Use your head. That isn't a strength feat, shes controlling the paper. That's like me saying Gaara controlling his sand is a strength feat, when its clearly not



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> MIGHT) work...and now that DB page is useless (false) therefore I'm (you) right
> Another thing you claim is that Konan didn't get damaged by this explosion *Spoiler*:  ....because Obito's statement...but really your pushing it away because it will prove nearly all your statements about Konan false


How? I already told you that this scan is a mistranslation, in the original scan Obito never said anything about him absorbing most of the explosion, he said: "though I did get hurt a bit". . The context is clear which, is Konan survived the explosion, because Obito absorbed it, and in the process he got hurt a bit..that simple, it has nothing to do with her "paper form" taking zero damage. You're also contradicting yourself. You just said that what Obito said was true, but then you say right after that Konan in her "paper form" wouldn't be affected by the explosion? What? You do understand that whether its half of her or full she'd still die because the paper would be the thing getting destroyed- let me simplify it for you..Konan turns into the paper..if the explosion destroys her paper she gets affected because she IS the paper, it was also never stated that Konan in her paper form doesn't take damage, that's stupid as shes turning herself into the paper, so if the paper gets destroyed and torn, then she gets hurt as well. I also find it hilarious of you to suggest that Konan made part of her body to "decieve" Obito, but then say she wasn't hurt by the explosion because she turned her entire body into paper? She wasn't hurt because Obito absorbed the explosion, if you don't like it argue with Kishi. Please don't argue with me, if you're gonna be annoying. You're the one who pushed it away, lmfao I told you multiple times to answer it, check your gaara and konan thread.



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Konans Shikigami no Mai - Databook *Spoiler*:  (you know the one that Kishimoto fucking wrote) you claim that ooo I just gave you (me) like 2 scans of how her jutsu might (KEYWORD


 thats funny I posted this in your Gaara vs Konan thread, yet you completely ignored it, ill post it again

"Manga>Databook, since the beginning of time. I showed you a scan of kishi depicting konan not to be visible, until obito said her she is and grabbed her neck -_-. Or you could look at the big wall of text, which includes mabga examples and the various comparisons I made.
quote next time



If it were a standard transformation jutsu then it wouldn't be actual paper and she wouldn't be able to mold it into different shapes and sent parts of her paper body flying at people. The point is that her paper is an actual object separate from a simple transformation, which is more of an illusion than anything else (example: Naruto transforming into a shuriken to fool an opponent and then transforming back).
Look at these pics
*Spoiler*:



What she is doing in those panels is discharging paper from her body and after that giving them a chance to float in the air all around and after that re-implanting chakra into them once she chooses to fire them. I can demonstrate this by taking a gander at how the paper is drifting around her. A portion of the paper is wandering aimlessly in the wind, and they are moving about heedlessly (take a gander at the paper in the colored panels, you can see it obviously there). On the off chance that she was really controlling them with chakra the whole time, the paper would be inflexible and pointed toward her rival, not twirling about in the wind. It would in the long run tumble to the ground on the off chance that she didn't implant it with chakra. Moreover, regardless of the possibility that she were controlling these paper with chakra, it has nothing to do with paper that has fallen into the sea"



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> And now with the PAPER CLONES really it's pretty fucking self explanatory


Agree to disagree. It happened off panel, so where not sure how she incorporates it into her arsenal but I'll give you this one as for everything else...nah 

inb4 repeating the same arguments


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## Serene Grace (Feb 23, 2017)

Bonly said:


> I doubt they would do much besides stall/distract Kakashi for a little bit since they don't have the speed to hit him and what not but with the location being as big as it is, they could be used to attempt a clone feint which Night brought up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Will give her the benefit of the doubt, due to location


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## Yoko (Feb 23, 2017)

Kakashi has Kamui and also has the option of disabling her with Genjutsu.  He is physically superior to her in everything and can use elemental jutsu to slow her down.  Not seeing what she can do other than play keep-away, which won't work forever.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 23, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Saying stamina/chakra doesn't make it any stupider the fuck. Kakashi doesn't need chakra nor stamina to evade Konan's paper projectiles that Jiraiya was cleanly reacting to. Evading and dodging something, rely on speed and reflexes..thought this was obvious.
> 
> 
> Use your head. That isn't a strength feat, shes controlling the paper. That's like me saying Gaara controlling his sand is a strength feat, when its clearly not
> ...



@Bonly please look over this  because wtf lmao or am I on the wrong for the most part? I just wanna see what you think of this and strawberry I'm not done with you yet...the sad thing is that you actually think your right when your literally the opposite...


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 23, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Saying stamina/chakra doesn't make it any stupider the fuck. Kakashi doesn't need chakra nor stamina to evade Konan's paper projectiles that Jiraiya was cleanly reacting to. Evading and dodging something, rely on speed and reflexes..thought this was obvious.
> 
> 
> Use your head. That isn't a strength feat, shes controlling the paper. That's like me saying Gaara controlling his sand is a strength feat, when its clearly not
> ...



That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard "Kakashi doesn't need chakra nor stamina to evade" really does he run on car gas?....he uses fucking stamina for physical movements (evading) and chakra for jutsu (you already know that...I hope) 

About the explosion  (for the millionth time) I wasn't contradicting myself...you just fail to understand what I was trying to say which was.... the manga clearly showed the explosion  (so is that an illusion also) if Obito was severely damaged by the explosion then it makes perfect sense that Konan's paper form was damaged also (she was literally right next to Obito and your still saying she wasn't affected...blows my mind) and the only reason I didn't respond to this in the other thread is because it was full of bullshit and I didn't feel like explaining what 1+1 was....

The databook....once again it's still above what you showed me with those scans especially when there's scans that support the databook


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## Serene Grace (Feb 23, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard "Kakashi doesn't need chakra nor stamina to evade" really does he run on car gas?....he uses fucking stamina for physical movements (evading) and chakra for jutsu (you already know that...I hope)


Really hope you're trolling. Kakashi isn't going get low on stamina/chakra from evading Konans projectiles, which he already gets a slowed down image of with his sharingan. He's literally trained all his life, to maintain his body at the top physical shape, and you think he's gonna be tired from dodging paper projectiles that base Jiraiya was cleanly reacting to, at a close distanceI think its time you gave up.Dude could physically keep up with Itachi, and deva path yet he doesn't have the physicals to dodge paper projectiles that aren't even fast, in concession..makes sense. As for the jutsu..not gonna address that. You should be smart enough to know that if Kakashi sees that his jutsu aren't working, he isn't just gonna keep doing it, especially since he's not only one of the best tactations in the series, but he's also one of the smartest characters in the series



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> I wasn't contradicting myself


You said that what Obito said was true and that konan would have died from the explosion, but then you said right after that Konan in her "paper form" wouldn't be affected by the explosion..-_- that's called contradicting yourself, unless you don't know what the definition of the word is. Contradict: to "deny the truth of (a statement), especially by asserting the opposite" to " assert the opposite of a statement made by (someone)" this is the textbook definition and is exactly what you're doing. You said that Obito's statement was true meaning that you admit Konan would have died from the explosion had she not adsorbed, you then said that Konan survived the explosion because her paper took the damage, and she was in paper mode. You are saying opposite things in your logic, hence contradicting yourself. You do understand that whether its half of her or full she'd still die because the paper would be the thing getting destroyed- let me simplify it for you..Konan turns into the paper..if the explosion destroys her paper she gets affected because she IS the paper, it was also never stated that Konan in her paper form doesn't take damage, that's stupid as shes turning herself into the paper, so if the paper gets destroyed and torn, then she gets hurt as well. I also find it hilarious of you to suggest that Konan made part of her body to "decieve" Obito, but then say she wasn't hurt by the explosion because she turned her entire body into paper? One question, do you not find it kind of stupid for you to suggest that Konan can't get hurt in paper form, when she was trying to commit suicide while in her paper form in the first place? She wasn't hurt because Obito absorbed the explosion, if you don't like it argue with Kishi. Please don't argue this with me,  again, argue with motherfuckig kishi


NightingaleOfShadows said:


> the manga clearly showed the explosion (so is that an illusion also) if Obito was severely damaged by the explosion then it makes perfect sense that Konan's paper form was damaged also (she was literally right next to Obito


oh my god, why troll like this? You want to know why Konan wants effected? Because Obito absorbed the motherfucking explosion, that's why repeating yourself doesn't make you right


NightingaleOfShadows said:


> she was literally right next to Obito and your still saying she wasn't affected...blows my mind)


Doesn't matter if she was right beside him, Obito absorbed the explosion which is why Konan was hurt if he takes away the explosion- then Konan sustains no damage, argue with kishimoto not me



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> The databook....once again it's still above what you showed me with those scans especially when there's scans that support the databook


So you ignore this again, for the...4th time? Concession accepted 


The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Manga>Databook, since the beginning of time. I showed you a scan of kishi depicting konan not to be visible, until obito said her she is and grabbed her neck -_-. Or you could look at the big wall of text, which includes mabga examples and the various comparisons I made.
> quote next time
> 
> 
> ...





NightingaleOfShadows said:


> bullshit and I didn't feel like explaining what 1+1 was....


Translation: I couldn't substantiae my arguments so I had to leave funny how this shifted from Kakashi dodging paper projectiles, and Konan holding back on jiraiya(things you didn't address) to old arguments

Please don't quote me for anything related to konan, you aren't really convincing anyone, and most of your arguments are taken directly from iccelerate, not even like there yours


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 23, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Really hope you're trolling. Kakashi isn't going get low on stamina/chakra from evading Konans projectiles, which he already gets a slowed down image of with his sharingan. He's literally trained all his life, to maintain his body at the top physical shape, and you think he's gonna be tired from dodging paper projectiles that base Jiraiya was cleanly reacting to, at a close distanceI think its time you gave up.Dude could physically keep up with Itachi, and deva path yet he doesn't have the physicals to dodge paper projectiles that aren't even fast, in concession..makes sense. As for the jutsu..not gonna address that. You should be smart enough to know that if Kakashi sees that his jutsu aren't working, he isn't just gonna keep doing it, especially since he's not only one of the beat tactations in the series, but he's also one of the smartest characters in the series
> 
> 
> You said that what Obito said was true and that konan would have died from the explosion, but then you said right after that Konan in her "paper form" wouldn't be affected by the explosion..-_- that's called contradicting yourself, unless you don't know what the definition of the word is. Contradict: to "deny the truth of (a statement), especially by asserting the opposite" to " assert the opposite of a statement made by (someone)" this is the textbook definition and is exactly what you're doing. You said that Obito's statement was true meaning that you admit Konan would have died from the explosion had she not adsorbed, you then said that Konan survived the explosion because her paper took the damage, and she was in paper mode. You are saying opposite things in your logic, hence contradicting yourself. You do understand that whether its half of her or full she'd still die because the paper would be the thing getting destroyed- let me simplify it for you..Konan turns into the paper..if the explosion destroys her paper she gets affected because she IS the paper, it was also never stated that Konan in her paper form doesn't take damage, that's stupid as shes turning herself into the paper, so if the paper gets destroyed and torn, then she gets hurt as well. I also find it hilarious of you to suggest that Konan made part of her body to "decieve" Obito, but then say she wasn't hurt by the explosion because she turned her entire body into paper? One questions, do you not find it kind of stupid for you to suggest that Konan can't get hurt in paper form, when she was trying to commit suicide while in her paper form in the first place? She wasn't hurt because Obito absorbed the explosion, if you don't like it argue with Kishi. Please don't argue with me, if again argue with motherfuckig kishi who made the manga
> ...



Dumbass.... Kakashi is still going to use x amount of stamina it doesn't matter if he haves the best stamina in the manga he still haves a limit...and he's going to use his chakra for clones fainting....

About the explosion....(seriously I'm going to fucking get everyone on this thread just so they can see this...like honestly are you that specialand I don't mean it in a good way)

Concession accepted? I just showed you like 6 scans that prove your point wrong...


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 23, 2017)

@oetsuthebest
@PhantomSage
@HandfullofNaruto
@professor83
@Bonly
@Idiopodivny

Please read what @The Death & The Strawberry
stated in the last 3 posts because seriously its amazing (or am i on the wrong?)


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## HandfullofNaruto (Feb 24, 2017)

@NightingaleOfShadows / @The Death & The Strawberry - this could just be a side-effect of my break from NBD but I couldn't follow any of those arguments

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## Ayala (Feb 24, 2017)

@NightingaleOfShadows, my opinion on the matter regarding Obito and Konan is the same as Strawberry's.

She was planning to commit suicide with him right at that moment, and that's why she says "i'll take you to the other world with me". What happens is that Obito absorbs the explosion (he doesn't phase through, he absorbs it) so that Konan wouldn't die. He absorbs the majority though, not the whole explosion.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 24, 2017)

oetsuthebest said:


> @NightingaleOfShadows, my opinion on the matter regarding Obito and Konan is the same as Strawberry's.
> 
> She was planning to commit suicide with him right at that moment, and that's why she says "i'll take you to the other world with me". What happens is that Obito absorbs the explosion (he doesn't phase through, he absorbs it) so that Konan wouldn't die. He absorbs the majority though, not the whole explosion.



Qeustion is...Did Konan get damaged by the explosion? (Her paper form)
Because the manga clearly depicts Konans paper form being damaged and even shows the explosion covering both of them before Obito could absorb the whole explosion


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## Ayala (Feb 24, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Qeustion is...Did Konan get damaged by the explosion? (Her paper form)



She took minimal damage as seen after, Obito took what was left of that explosion.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 24, 2017)

oetsuthebest said:


> She took minimal damage as seen after, Obito took what was left of that explosion.



Ok thank you because Strawberry thinks she didint get damaged at all lol thats what im trying to tell him. If she actually got damaged then this will prove his statement about Konan not being fully paper false because as you can see she got quite the damage and if she was partly in her human form she would've been dead....but he doesn't want to admit to that


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## Ayala (Feb 24, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Ok thank you because Strawberry thinks she didint get damaged at all lol thats what im trying to tell him



Kakashi still solos though


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 24, 2017)

oetsuthebest said:


> Kakashi still solos though



Whatever you say lol i just wanted other peoples opinon on the argument


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## Anbu Knights (Feb 24, 2017)

Okay let's just pretend he doesn't douse her in water (take note that Jiraiya was able to douse her in oil...a much heavier and slower substance) and fry her with raiton. 


The Konan thing has gone too far.


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## Ayala (Feb 24, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Ok thank you because Strawberry thinks she didint get damaged at all lol thats what im trying to tell him. If she actually got damaged then this will prove his statement about Konan not being fully paper false because as you can see she got quite the damage and if she was partly in her human form she would've been dead....but he doesn't want to admit to that



I still don't totally get how Konan works, but the fact she transforms in paper doesn't make her invulnerable or anything, which is what's being claimed a lot.

Example, when Jiraya got her in the oil and grabbed her, she was supposedly doomed, even though she was still in paper form. And she wasn't supposed to be able to put a match against SM Naruto, which she would if she's  invulnerable and everything.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 24, 2017)

Anbu Knights said:


> Okay let's just pretend he doesn't douse her in water (take note that Jiraiya was able to douse her in oil...a much heavier and slower substance) and fry her with raiton.
> 
> 
> The Konan thing has gone too far.



Oil is her only weakness....and Katon shes resistant to... so idk why you think raiton is going to kill her....


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 24, 2017)

oetsuthebest said:


> I still don't totally get how Konan works, but the fact she transforms in paper doesn't make her invulnerable or anything, which is what's being claimed a lot.
> 
> Example, when Jiraya got her in the oil and grabbed her, she was supposedly doomed, even though she was still in paper form. And she wasn't supposed to be able to put a match against SM Naruto, which she would if she's  invulnerable and everything.



When Jiraiya drenched her in oil it caused all of her paper to stick so she couldn't move. When Obito grabbed her...she wouldint die by suffocation because shes paper and the SM Naruto...she wasn't in her paper form at that moment


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## Serene Grace (Feb 24, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Dumbass....


Hmm don't think you should be throwing around that words, you literally said Konan controlling paper is a strength feat, and you literally said right after that this "strength" feat was better than 8 gate Guys


NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Kakashi is still going to use x amount of stamina


KappaThis isn't a point, nor a basis as to why Kakashi, a guy who's trained his body for years to endure physical pain, would run out of stamina from dodging paper projectiles that Jiriaya was cleanly reacting to. Also Everyone is going to use X amount of stamina in a battle, what the fuck.

As for the chakra, Kakashi only needs one clone feint to catch Konan off guard and she's pretty much done , as she isn't reacting to kamui, nor is she forming a clone before Kakashi gets off kamui. He also isn't gonna be constantly using the same stuff if he sees that it has no affect on Konan, Kakashi isn't stupid, infact he's faaar from it, he's probably one of the smartest characters in the series when it comes to combat, so he'll realize quickly that what he's doing isn't working and stop doing it, not that hard. 



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> doesn't matter if he haves the best stamina in the manga he still haves a limit...


And he isn't gonna be pushed to that limit, from dodging paper projectiles that was cleanly reacted to by base Jiraiya, the fact that you think so makes me think you only pay attention to konan related things in the manga.


NightingaleOfShadows said:


> About the explosion....(seriously I'm going to fucking get everyone on this thread just so they can see this...like honestly are you that specialand I don't mean it in a good way)



Not my fault you keep contradicting yourself. You said that what Obito said was true and that konan would have died from the explosion, but then you said right after that Konan in her "paper form" wouldn't be affected by the explosion ..logic.




NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Concession accepted? I just showed you like 6 scans that prove your point wrong...


TBH their are instances where she actually might be splitting her whole body ill admit that, though read through what I was saying again

If it were a standard transformation jutsu then it wouldn't be actual paper and she wouldn't be able to mold it into different shapes and sent parts of her paper body flying at people. The point is that her paper is an actual object separate from a simple transformation, which is more of an illusion than anything else (example: Naruto transforming into a shuriken to fool an opponent and then transforming back).
Look at these pics*Spoiler*:



What she is doing in those panels is discharging paper from her body and after that giving them a chance to float in the air all around and after that re-implanting chakra into them once she chooses to fire them. I can demonstrate this by taking a gander at how the paper is drifting around her. A portion of the paper is wandering aimlessly in the wind, and they are moving about heedlessly (take a gander at the paper in the colored panels, you can see it obviously there). On the off chance that she was really controlling them with chakra the whole time, the paper would be inflexible and pointed toward her rival, not twirling about in the wind. It would in the long run tumble to the ground on the off chance that she didn't implant it with chakra. Moreover, regardless of the possibility that she were controlling these paper with chakra, it has nothing to do with paper that has fallen into the

If you ignore it again then I will take it as a concession


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## Serene Grace (Feb 24, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> and Katon shes resistant to...


some of that contradictory logic again. You literally said that you agree with the fact that Konan would have died had Obito not absorbed the explosion, but then you say shes resistant to katon, based off what?oh man, even Icelerate disagrees with you


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## Ishmael (Feb 24, 2017)

i received a warning for saying anyone who believed nagato= Kisame was a dumbass. Nothing against Night  but if he doesn't get a warning for literally calling TD&TS a dumbass  that's beyond bullshit.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 24, 2017)

La presagio said:


> i received a warning for saying anyone who believed nagato= Kisame was a dumbass. Nothing against Night  but if he doesn't get a warning for literally calling TD&TS that's beyond bullshit.



Ooooo no are you gonna report me now
go right ahead tf you honestly think i care....yeah i called him a dumbass because hes denying that Kakashi doesn't use stamina


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## Ishmael (Feb 24, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Ooooo no are you gonna report me now
> go right ahead tf you honestly think i care....yeah i called him a dumbass because hes denying that Kakashi doesn't use stamina



I didn't report nor tag a mod or anything I don't care enough to... Im just letting it be known if I get a warning for what I did you should too it's that's simple.


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 24, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> some of that contradictory logic again. You literally said that you agree with the fact that Konan would have died had Obito not absorbed the explosion, but then you say shes resistant to katon, based off what?oh man, even Icelerate disagrees with you



Direct contact from an explosion is different from a katon....
And jairyia did a direct katon sneak attack towards Konan and she wasn't fazed by it...if she was completely weak to it like regular paper then she would've been obliterated


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## Serene Grace (Feb 24, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> hes denying that Kakashi doesn't use stamina


read what I said, I said he isn't gonna get tired from doing paper projectiles that base Jiraiya was easily reacting to, you failed to answer hence you resorted to ad hominin, which can take a crack at your credibility around here


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 24, 2017)

La presagio said:


> I didn't report nor tag a mod or anything I don't care enough to... Im just letting it be known if I get a warning for what I did you should too it's that's simple.



Ooo it was you who got the warning ok yeah that wouldn't be fair tbh


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 24, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Hmm don't think you should be throwing around that words, you literally said Konan controlling paper is a strength feat, and you literally said right after that this "strength" feat was better than 8 gate Guys
> 
> KappaThis isn't a point, nor a basis as to why Kakashi, a guy who's trained his body for years to endure physical pain, would run out of stamina from dodging paper projectiles that Jiriaya was cleanly reacting to. Also Everyone is going to use X amount of stamina in a battle, what the fuck.
> 
> ...



My point with the stamina thing is that he won't be dodging it the whole time he eventually will get tagged and eventually Konans paper will close in 

And she HAS turned her whole body into paper...its not up for debate and ive already read though those scans and the statements that go with them many times....but that doesn't put the DB page and the scans i showed you to shame...


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## Serene Grace (Feb 24, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Direct contact


You say direct contact as if katon isn't getting direct contact as well, or does it magically stop before it hits her?..sigh



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> explosion is different from a katon....


You do understand that the main destructive factor of an explosion is fire/heat...right? Guess what katon is completely made of? My god its like you're not even trying anymore, even the guy you copied off of believes Konan isn't resistant to katon.



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> And jairyia did a direct katon sneak attack towards Konan and she wasn't fazed by it...if she was completely weak to it like regular paper then she would've been obliterated


She reacted to it though, and hell the paper which was covering Ryusui's body disappeared after defending him from the katon. (1)(2).. The fact that her paper was burned slightly by Obito's explosion, means that her paper isn't resistant to katon. Stop with your wanking dude

Reactions: Like 1


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 24, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> You say direct contact as if katon isn't getting direct contact as well, or does it magically stop before it hits her?..sigh
> 
> 
> You do understand that the main destructive factor of an explosion is fire/heat...right? Guess what katon is completely made of? My god its like you're not even trying anymore, even the guy you copied off of believes Konan isn't resistant to katon.
> ...



Explosions have a lot of force mixed with it...ik it haves heat


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## Serene Grace (Feb 24, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> My point with the stamina thing is that he won't be dodging it the whole time he eventually will get tagged and eventually Konans paper will close in


Based off what? He's been training his body to endure physical pain for years, why would he get tired from dodging paper projectiles that aren't even that fast, and that were getting cleanly reacted to by Base Jiraiya from about 15 m's? Funny how you talk about stamina/chakra yet you ignore the fact that Konan uses chakra to control her paper, meaning she can't control/throw her paper projectiles forever, kind shows those double standards



NightingaleOfShadows said:


> And she HAS turned her whole body into paper...its not up for debate and ive already read though those scans and the statements that go with them many times....but that doesn't put the DB page and the scans i showed you to shame...


Databook page didn't even say it was a standard transformation jutsu,so I don't know what you're referring to, I doubt you read what I said as you staged no answer. Its right here

If it were a standard transformation jutsu then it wouldn't be actual paper and she wouldn't be able to mold it into different shapes and sent parts of her paper body flying at people. The point is that her paper is an actual object separate from a simple transformation, which is more of an illusion than anything else (example: Naruto transforming into a shuriken to fool an opponent and then transforming back).
Look at these pics*Spoiler*:



What she is doing in those panels is discharging paper from her body and after that giving them a chance to float in the air all around and after that re-implanting chakra into them once she chooses to fire them. I can demonstrate this by taking a gander at how the paper is drifting around her. A portion of the paper is wandering aimlessly in the wind, and they are moving about heedlessly (take a gander at the paper in the colored panels, you can see it obviously there). On the off chance that she was really controlling them with chakra the whole time, the paper would be inflexible and pointed toward her rival, not twirling about in the wind. It would in the long run tumble to the ground on the off chance that she didn't implant it with chakra. Moreover, regardless of the possibility that she were controlling these paper with chakra, it has nothing to do with paper that has fallen into the

If you ignore it again, pretty much concession accepted


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## Serene Grace (Feb 24, 2017)

NightingaleOfShadows said:


> Explosions have a lot of force mixed with it...ik it haves heat


doesn't matter, tbh, if her paper was burned by the explosion then she isn't resistant to katon which specializes in burning. Also(funny hoe you completely ignored this)The paper which was covering Ryusui's body disappeared after defending him from the katon. (1)(2).. So you're wrong, just accept it and stop wanking


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