# Naruto vs Sasuke vs Sakura (Taijutsu Only)



## DavyChan (Feb 24, 2015)

*Scenario 1: Beginning of Shippuden Naruto, Sasuke,& Sakura have to fight to the death only using taijutsu.

Scenario 2: EoS Naruto, Sasuke, & Sakura have to fight to the death only using taijutsu (except for Sakura)*

This kind of just sees how good these guys are at taijutsu. Are they good enough to keep up with Sakura. And at the end of the story even with their crazy power-ups, were they still stronger in the field of taijutsu than Sakura even though that was what she solely focused on. 

Tell me what you guys think.

*EdIt:* Sasuke Can *NOT* use* Shunshin* (Body Flicker Technique)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Remember this


----------



## trance (Feb 24, 2015)

Scenario one is debatable. Scenario two isn't. Sakura dies while Naruto and Sauce stalemate.


----------



## TheGreen1 (Feb 24, 2015)

Trance said:


> Scenario one is debatable. Scenario two isn't. Sakura dies while Naruto and Sauce stalemate.



I dunno... Frog Song here is technically taijutsu, and it's the blows you don't see that will get you. And Sasuke can't see them.


----------



## Ghost (Feb 24, 2015)

Sasuke wins the first scenario. Sakura can't even react to his speed and Naruto's skill is lacking. 

SC2: Sasuke and Naruto stalemate, Sakura dies horribly.


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 24, 2015)

I'm pretty sure this

*Spoiler*: __ 







Is better than this


----------



## TheGreen1 (Feb 24, 2015)

dpwater25 said:


> I'm pretty sure this
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Even so, Frog Kata's count as Taijutsu, and none of these guys are beating Sage Mode Naruto in a Taijutsu fight.


----------



## Ghost (Feb 24, 2015)

naruto has to enter sage mode first and that is restricted.


----------



## Euraj (Feb 24, 2015)

Sasuke wins the first scenario. He's a great deal faster than either of them at the beginning of Part II.

What's the mindset here? If they're IC, then Sakura wins scenario 2 due to being disallowed from the fight via their noble sexism and winning when they've KO'ed each other.


----------



## TheGreen1 (Feb 24, 2015)

Saikyou said:


> naruto has to enter sage mode first and that is restricted.





> Naruto vs Sasuke vs Sakura (Taijutsu Only)
> Scenario 1: Beginning of Shippuden Naruto, Sasuke,& Sakura have to fight to the death only using taijutsu.
> 
> Scenario 2: EoS Naruto, Sasuke, & Sakura have to fight to the death only using taijutsu (except for Sakura)
> ...



I did a Control + F search for the words "Sage mode" and "restricted", but funny enough, I don't see where that was written except for your post. 

I assume that all power-ups are allowed as long as jutsu are not used. I'm not using Susano'o or Biju Cloaks as they have extra protection. But Sage Mode is fair game.


----------



## Alex Payne (Feb 24, 2015)

Beginning of Shippuden Sakura called Sasuke's speed "unreal" and theorized that Orochimaru used some drugs to help with attaining that speed. That was just one casual Shunshin without Sharingan. He would dominate in taijutsu exchange due to superior physical speed, superior reflexes and superior perception. 

Not sure about 2nd scenario. Byakugo-less Sakura is non-factor - NaruSasu base states were also greatly augmented by Hagoromo. Sasuke is faster with Jubito-tracking EMS precog while Naruto should be physically more powerful and tougher in terms of durability. He also should be more skilled even in Base - learning new style(even unavailable here) and constantly fighting in CQC should have augmented his core skills too. Naruto lacks clones here though so Sauce might edge out.


----------



## TheGreen1 (Feb 24, 2015)

Alex Payne said:


> Beginning of Shippuden Sakura called Sasuke's speed "unreal" and theorized that Orochimaru used some drugs to help with attaining that speed. That was just one casual Shunshin without Sharingan. He would dominate in taijutsu exchange due to superior physical speed, superior reflexes and superior perception.
> 
> Not sure about 2nd scenario. Byakugo-less Sakura is non-factor - NaruSasu base states were also greatly augmented by Hagoromo. Sasuke is faster with Jubito-tracking EMS precog while Naruto should be physically more powerful and tougher in terms of durability. He also should be more skilled even in Base - learning new style(even unavailable here) and constantly fighting in CQC should have augmented his core skills too. Naruto lacks clones here though so Sauce might edge out.



2nd Scenario, if we're using VOTE2 Naruto and Sasuke here, Naruto's going to win. Naruto is just physically more powerful.


----------



## Zef (Feb 24, 2015)

Sasuke speedblitzes scenario one.

Scenario two is more difficult. I'm assuming Naruto is in base. Sasuke is faster then base Naruto since the former was on Hashirama's statue by the time the latter jumped.

That being said, Naruto reacted so it isn't a blitz.

Their base strength is also equal since the forearm collision made a shockwave. 


All in all,  when Naruto is in base their taijutsu is equal.

I don't understand scenario 2. Is Sakura using solely taijutsu, or not?
Sakura is obviously stronger then them.What I'm concerned about is her speed. Naruto, and Sasuke ran to VOTE in what seems to be a matter of seconds. It took Sakura, and Kakashi a day(s) to find them. Albeit Sakura was carrying Kakashi. 


Sakura's best speed feat is out running the Juubi arm.


This is how I see scenario 2 going down. Naruto, and Sasuke run to a different country. By the time Sakura finds them one has beaten the other, and faces off against Sakura.

Seriously,  I have no idea about scenario 2.


----------



## Alex Payne (Feb 24, 2015)

TheGreen1 said:


> 2nd Scenario, if we're using VOTE2 Naruto and Sasuke here, Naruto's going to win. Naruto is just physically more powerful.


He is. But he'd struggle with landing hits without clones. Contending with EMS pre-cog and superior speed isn't easy. Plus his physical strength in base isn't _that_ much better than Sasuke's.


----------



## TheGreen1 (Feb 24, 2015)

Alex Payne said:


> He is. But he'd struggle with landing hits without clones. Contending with EMS pre-cog and superior speed isn't easy. Plus his physical strength in base isn't _that_ much better than Sasuke's.



The speed difference isn't as vast as you'd like to make it out to be. Naruto tagged Kaguya and cut off her arm the blink of an eye, while Sasuke failed to do any damage to her. 

Sasuke's speed isn't all that enhanced with his Rinne Sharingan and Rikudo Chakra. It's that warping teleportation ability that's giving him the advantage... which he shouldn't be able to use here as it's a technique.


----------



## Zef (Feb 24, 2015)

So Naruto is allowed RSM in this fight?

Then he stomps.


----------



## TheGreen1 (Feb 24, 2015)

Zef said:


> So Naruto is allowed RSM in this fight?
> 
> Then he stomps.



Even if we removed all Rikudo Power-ups from both Sasuke and Naruto, Naruto would stomp. SM is just unfair in this situation.


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 24, 2015)

TheGreen1 said:


> I did a Control + F search for the words "Sage mode" and "restricted", but funny enough, I don't see where that was written except for your post.
> 
> I assume that all power-ups are allowed as long as jutsu are not used. I'm not using Susano'o or Biju Cloaks as they have extra protection. But Sage Mode is fair game.



Sage Mode requires Senjutsu



Zef said:


> Sasuke speedblitzes scenario one.
> 
> Scenario two is more difficult. I'm assuming Naruto is in base. Sasuke is faster then base Naruto since the former was on Hashirama's statue by the time the latter jumped.
> 
> ...



I already said that on Scenario 2 Sakura can use her full arsenal.



Alex Payne said:


> Beginning of Shippuden Sakura called Sasuke's speed "unreal" and theorized that Orochimaru used some drugs to help with attaining that speed. That was just one casual Shunshin without Sharingan. He would dominate in taijutsu exchange due to superior physical speed, superior reflexes and superior perception.
> 
> Not sure about 2nd scenario. Byakugo-less Sakura is non-factor - NaruSasu base states were also greatly augmented by Hagoromo. Sasuke is faster with Jubito-tracking EMS precog while Naruto should be physically more powerful and tougher in terms of durability. He also should be more skilled even in Base - learning new style(even unavailable here) and constantly fighting in CQC should have augmented his core skills too. Naruto lacks clones here though so Sauce might edge out.



What's funny is right after i posted this and before I saw the responses I thought about when Sasuke speed blitzed Naruto. I didn't think any1 else would remember that.

Sakura is not byakugou-less in scenario 2. She has her full arsenal.



Zef said:


> So Naruto is allowed RSM in this fight?
> 
> Then he stomps.



Whatever RSM that enhanced only taijutsu is fair game.


----------



## Zef (Feb 24, 2015)

I thought "taijutsu only" restricted all of Naruto's modes. If Naruto has SM active he's using Senjutsu. I don't understand scenario 2.


----------



## TheGreen1 (Feb 24, 2015)

Zef said:


> I thought "taijutsu only" restricted all of Naruto's modes. If Naruto has SM active he's using Senjutsu. I don't understand scenario 2.



No, he's just got Sage Mode. Frog Kata's are Taijutsu techniques.


----------



## Mercurial (Feb 24, 2015)

Sakura is far too slow compared to Naruto, let alone Sasuke. Naruto then has Frog Kumite. It's between Naruto and Sasuke, Sakura is non factor, he has strength on her side but she's not landing hits so it's useless.


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 24, 2015)

TheGreen1 said:


> No, he's just got Sage Mode. Frog Kata's are Taijutsu techniques.





Zef said:


> I thought "taijutsu only" restricted all of Naruto's modes. If Naruto has SM active he's using Senjutsu. I don't understand scenario 2.



 i literally just answered this if u would look up


----------



## TheGreen1 (Feb 24, 2015)

dpwater25 said:


> i literally just answered this if u would look up





dpwater25 said:


> Whatever RSM that enhanced only taijutsu is fair game.



Just making sure that this above means that you're allowing SM and RSM.


----------



## Zef (Feb 24, 2015)

If this is SM Naruto then Sasuke, and Sakura can beat him.

Sasuke's sword pierced JJ Madara. 


Sakura broke Kaguya's horn.


SM Naruto doesn't have durability comparable to JJ Madara, or Kaguya.....or at least he shouldn't.


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 24, 2015)

Sasuke wins scenario 1.

Either Sasuke or Naruto wins the second one. Sakura is outclassed even with her full arsenal.


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 24, 2015)

Zef said:


> If this is SM Naruto then Sasuke, and Sakura can beat him.
> 
> Sasuke's sword pierced JJ Madara.
> 
> ...





LostSelf said:


> Sasuke wins scenario 1.
> 
> Either Sasuke or Naruto wins the second one. Sakura is outclassed even with her full arsenal.



even when he is sm he still can't use senjutsu. and even sm naruto is weaker than sakura


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 24, 2015)

It's EoS Naruto. It doesn't matter if he has Sm or not. Sakura won't even see him.


----------



## TheGreen1 (Feb 24, 2015)

dpwater25 said:


> even when he is sm he still can't use senjutsu. and even sm naruto is weaker than sakura



He's just using the Chakra and expelling it when he's using the Frog Kata's and body durability. I suppose this all comes down to semantics.


----------



## ShadoLord (Feb 24, 2015)

Sasuke scenario 1.

Naruto scenario 2.

Sakura is a non-factor in scenario 2.


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 24, 2015)

Night Raid Chelsea said:


> Sasuke scenario 1.
> 
> Naruto scenario 2.
> 
> Sakura is a non-factor in scenario 2.





TheGreen1 said:


> He's just using the Chakra and expelling it when he's using the Frog Kata's and body durability. I suppose this all comes down to semantics.



I don't get it. If Naruto and Sasuke are soo dam fast in their base forms then why didn't they use that speed during their fight at the end and go dbz on each other.


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 24, 2015)

How do you know they didn't fight at full speed?


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 25, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> How do you know they didn't fight at full speed?



I don't know what speed they were using but they should go full speed if its a serious battle. so it is either 
*A. They were going full speed*
or
*B. It was WIS/Plot Protection to make the fight more interesting/last longer*

Take your pick


----------



## Ghost (Feb 25, 2015)

what the fuck are you rambling on about? you're not making any sense


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 25, 2015)

DavyChan said:


> I don't know what speed they were using but they should go full speed if its a serious battle. so it is either
> *A. They were going full speed*
> or
> *B. It was WIS/Plot Protection to make the fight more interesting/last longer*
> ...



If they were going all out against each other, then they were going at full speed. Obviously Kishi won't draw lines to make it look fast or the fight would've been boring.

It's like how Gai was benting time and space with Night Gai. Kishi drew him perfectly, yet, he should not have been able to be seen by "normal eyes".

That doesn't mean that if Sakura were there she would be matching that speed just because in the panels it doesn't look fast. It needs to look like that for the readers (us) to understand what's happening.


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 25, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> If they were going all out against each other, then they were going at full speed. Obviously Kishi won't draw lines to make it look fast or the fight would've been boring.
> 
> It's like how Gai was benting time and space with Night Gai. Kishi drew him perfectly, yet, he should not have been able to be seen by "normal eyes".
> 
> That doesn't mean that if Sakura were there she would be matching that speed just because in the panels it doesn't look fast. It needs to look like that for the readers (us) to understand what's happening.



Manga confuses me. That's why i don't read it. you don't understand wtf is going on


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 25, 2015)

But Manga is canon. Anime is not. It's true that in the anime one would be able to understand the movements better. However, in this instance, even if it look slow (they are drawings, they will look slow), they were moving at their fastest speed available against each other.

Maybe not at their fullest because of the injuries, but too fast for Sakura or any other character below Juubito to effectively follow.


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 25, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> But Manga is canon. Anime is not. It's true that in the anime one would be able to understand the movements better. However, in this instance, even if it look slow (they are drawings, they will look slow), they were moving at their fastest speed available against each other.
> 
> Maybe not at their fullest because of the injuries, but too fast for Sakura or any other character below Juubito to effectively follow.



Watch when they animate it and I'm right.


----------



## Negrito (Feb 25, 2015)

I like how all of you say "Sasuke is faster in scenario 1 because of Shunshin". When Shunshin = Ninjustu = Restricted. Lol


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 25, 2015)

Negrito said:


> I like how all of you say "Sasuke is faster in scenario 1 because of Shunshin". When Shunshin = Ninjustu = Restricted. Lol



OMG. THANK U. Seriously, mad props. 



I had no idea that that was a jutsu. I just looked it up. Body Flicker Jutsu. Thanx!


----------



## Arles Celes (Feb 25, 2015)

1.) Beginning of Shippuden Sasuke was much faster than Beginning of Shippuden Naruto and Sakura so with his speed and Sharingan precog he can handle either with mid difficulty at most. Sakura herself was so amazed by his speed that she considered his growth unreal and believed he used drugs. IF CS is allowed then this is a stomp.

2.) Speaking of CS...are SM or RSM allowed? Or Byakugou? With RSM, Naruto comfortably defeats either Sasuke or even Byakugou Sakura. After all this power up is supposed to be his equivalent of Sasuke's Rinnegan...which Sasuke is apparently unable to use here. IF Sakura is allowed to use Byakugou she lasts longer than Sasuke due to regeneration(she could regenerate even from gudoudama hits) but loses sooner or later. If its just SM then I see Sasuke winning as he could sense nature energy so he might see SM Naruto's ghost punches. And even if he does not see them I don't see he losing to just one ghost punch. Preta Pain durability seemed below other Pains. Sasuke's EMS precognition that could keep track of Juubito can more than match SM perception and his kusanagi could pierce even Shinju Madara. If its just base for all then it probably ends like in the manga with Naruto and Sasuke fighting to a draw. Sakura loses to either of them before that though.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 25, 2015)

Alex Payne said:


> Beginning of Shippuden Sakura called Sasuke's speed "unreal" and theorized that Orochimaru used some drugs to help with attaining that speed. That was just one casual Shunshin without Sharingan. He would dominate in taijutsu exchange due to superior physical speed, superior reflexes and superior perception.
> 
> Not sure about 2nd scenario. Byakugo-less Sakura is non-factor - NaruSasu base states were also greatly augmented by Hagoromo. Sasuke is faster with Jubito-tracking EMS precog while Naruto should be physically more powerful and tougher in terms of durability. He also should be more skilled even in Base - learning new style(even unavailable here) and constantly fighting in CQC should have augmented his core skills too. Naruto lacks clones here though so Sauce might edge out.



Yeah that.


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 25, 2015)

Arles Celes said:


> 1.) Beginning of Shippuden Sasuke was much faster than Beginning of Shippuden Naruto and Sakura so with his speed and Sharingan precog he can handle either with mid difficulty at most. Sakura herself was so amazed by his speed that she considered his growth unreal and believed he used drugs. IF CS is allowed then this is a stomp.
> 
> 2.) Speaking of CS...are SM or RSM allowed? Or Byakugou? With RSM, Naruto comfortably defeats either Sasuke or even Byakugou Sakura. After all this power up is supposed to be his equivalent of Sasuke's Rinnegan...which Sasuke is apparently unable to use here. IF Sakura is allowed to use Byakugou she lasts longer than Sasuke due to regeneration(she could regenerate even from gudoudama hits) but loses sooner or later. If its just SM then I see Sasuke winning as he could sense nature energy so he might see SM Naruto's ghost punches. And even if he does not see them I don't see he losing to just one ghost punch. Preta Pain durability seemed below other Pains. Sasuke's EMS precognition that could keep track of Juubito can more than match SM perception and his kusanagi could pierce even Shinju Madara. If its just base for all then it probably ends like in the manga with Naruto and Sasuke fighting to a draw. Sakura loses to either of them before that though.


*Byakugou is not banned in scenario 2*. She can use her entire moveset.


Alex Payne said:


> Beginning of Shippuden Sakura called Sasuke's speed "unreal" and theorized that Orochimaru used some drugs to help with attaining that speed. That was just one casual Shunshin without Sharingan. He would dominate in taijutsu exchange due to superior physical speed, superior reflexes and superior perception.
> 
> Not sure about 2nd scenario. Byakugo-less Sakura is non-factor - NaruSasu base states were also greatly augmented by Hagoromo. Sasuke is faster with Jubito-tracking EMS precog while Naruto should be physically more powerful and tougher in terms of durability. He also should be more skilled even in Base - learning new style(even unavailable here) and constantly fighting in CQC should have augmented his core skills too. Naruto lacks clones here though so Sauce might edge out.





The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Yeah that.


That was shunshin which is ninjutsu so it is banned. *Read updated OP please*.
And again *Byakugou is not restricted*. Nothing is restricted for Sakura in scenario 2 (including summonings, and medical techniques, and EVERYTHING ELSE)


----------



## Negrito (Feb 25, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Yeah that.



His statement is flawed (at least the first part) as he included Shunshin as part of Sasuke's speed in a ninjustu restricted match.


----------



## Ersa (Feb 25, 2015)

The thing is Sakura with her full arsenal doesn't even hold a candle to their base states restricted to taijutsu. I mean 2 years later Sasuke is leveling meteors in his base state. The protagonists are just that much ahead.


----------



## Arles Celes (Feb 25, 2015)

DavyChan said:


> *Byakugou is not banned in scenario 2*. She can use her entire moveset.
> 
> 
> That was shunshin which is ninjutsu so it is banned. *Read updated OP please*.
> And again *Byakugou is not restricted*. Nothing is restricted for Sakura in scenario 2 (including summonings, and medical techniques, and EVERYTHING ELSE)



And what about RSM? Is it restricted?

With shunshin restricted in scenario 1, Sasuke still wins as he can use sharingan precognition while Naruto can't use his KBs which are the Sharingan equivalent. I do not see Sakura landing a hit on him either. And if CS is not restricted this is a stomp. CS makes this unbalanced I think.

With RSM not restricted in scenario 2, Naruto can defeat both Sasuke and Sakura at once I think. Naruto and Sasuke got similar stats in base(maybe Sasuke is a bit faster...at least with shunshin) so with RSM boost Naruto wipes the floor with Sasuke in taijutsu. Sakura lasts longer due to her regeneration but still inevitably loses. Same as CS in scenario 1, I think RSM makes this really unbalanced.


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 25, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> The thing is Sakura with her full arsenal doesn't even hold a candle to their base states restricted to taijutsu. I mean 2 years later Sasuke is leveling meteors in his base state. The protagonists are just that much ahead.



It's hard to believe anything you say when in your eos naruto tier list you don't even have sakura put in a kage tier. wtf dude. I can't take you seriously. *#getouttahere*


----------



## Guybot2 (Feb 25, 2015)

I heard Sakura reach naruto and sasuke's level in EOS... 

IF that was true then sakura is capable of tangoing with two monsters at EOS


----------



## Jabba (Feb 25, 2015)

Guybot2 said:


> I heard Sakura reach naruto and sasuke's level in EOS...
> 
> IF that was true then sakura is capable of tangoing with two monsters at EOS



She's not. 

To even become close to EOS Naruto and Sasuke level, you need some sort of divine chakra.


----------



## Ersa (Feb 25, 2015)

DavyChan said:


> It's hard to believe anything you say when in your eos naruto tier list you don't even have sakura put in a kage tier. wtf dude. I can't take you seriously. *#getouttahere*


She should be on par with Tsunade.

I forgot, she's Kage level no doubt.


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 25, 2015)

DavyChan said:


> Watch when they animate it and I'm right.



It's not that way. Unless stated otherwise by the author, Manga will always prevail over Anime.


----------



## Ersa (Feb 25, 2015)

Anime is non-canon.

The only animated works you can use as canon are Naruto The Last and maybe Road to Ninja due to the author's personal involvement and the former actually fitting perfectly into the manga universe.


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 25, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> Anime is non-canon.
> 
> The only animated works you can use as canon are Naruto The Last and maybe Road to Ninja due to the author's personal involvement and the former actually fitting perfectly into the manga universe.



Uhm from my understand anime is canon. FIller is not.* #getyofacts*
They don't put stuff in it (besides filler) that isn't a direct offspring of the actual story. Manga and Anime are twins basically.


Guybot2 said:


> I heard Sakura reach naruto and sasuke's level in EOS...
> 
> IF that was true then sakura is capable of tangoing with two monsters at EOS



On the databook it did state that adult sakura is on their level. *#fact*


----------



## Ersa (Feb 25, 2015)

DavyChan said:


> Uhm from my understand anime is canon. FIller is not.* #getyofacts*
> They don't put stuff in it (besides filler) that isn't a direct offspring of the actual story. Manga and Anime are twins basically.


Not really, the anime is an adaption done by Studio Pierrot. It follows canon material but is not canon in itself, unless you want to tell me Pain can survive a beatdown from KN6 Naruto without a scratch. 

Since you don't seem to understand here is the definition of canon.


> canon1
> ˈkanən/Submit
> noun
> noun: canon; plural noun: canons; noun: canon of the Mass
> ...


The anime is not done by Kishimoto.


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 25, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> Not really, the anime is an adaption done by Studio Pierrot. It follows canon material but is not canon in itself, unless you want to tell me Pain can survive a beatdown from KN6 Naruto without a scratch.
> 
> Since you don't seem to understand here is the definition of canon.
> 
> The anime is not done by Kishimoto.



*Cannon - Following the mutherfucking storyline. *

*Spoiler*: __ 



 Stop trying to demean me just because I don't like or appreciate your colorless pages


----------



## Jad (Feb 25, 2015)

DavyChan said:


> *Cannon - Following the mutherfucking storyline. *
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Is that why you think Tsunade > Gai in Taijutsu?  Because you follow the anime?


----------



## Ersa (Feb 26, 2015)

DavyChan said:


> *Cannon - Following the mutherfucking storyline. *
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


I think cannon is any piece of artillery that uses gunpowder or other usually explosive-based propellants to launch a projectile.


----------



## Alex Payne (Feb 26, 2015)

It's like you guys can't read. I used Sasuke's shunshin speed to illustrate my point. Shunshin speed is tied to physical speed. I didn't say Sasuke shunshin blitzes. But his casual showing and Sakura's statement are enough to conclude that he would dominate in speed even with shunshin being restricted. And we aren't even sure that what Sasuke did to Naruto was shunshin. It looked like it but it wasn't directly stated like when he fought Deidara.


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 26, 2015)

Jad said:


> Is that why you think Tsunade > Gai in Taijutsu?  Because you follow the anime?



Even in the anime, Tsunade is not even close to Gai in taijutsu. Do we mention hundreds of flaming punches and a shaped tiger in one punch? Benting time and space with a kick? .

Nobody, nobody bar Lee is on Gai's level when it comes to Taijutsu.


----------



## Rocky (Feb 26, 2015)

Lee is not on Gai's level either. 7th Gate good game. 

Maybe Ch. 700 Lee is, but who knows what he is capable of.


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 26, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> I think cannon is any piece of artillery that uses gunpowder or other usually explosive-based propellants to launch a projectile.





Jad said:


> Is that why you think Tsunade > Gai in Taijutsu?  Because you follow the anime?



Tsunade beasted orochimaru using only taijutsu.

And I meant Canon


----------



## Jad (Feb 26, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Lee is not on Gai's level either. 7th Gate good game.
> 
> Maybe Ch. 700 Lee is, but who knows what he is capable of.



Well at least Lee is described as a Taijutsu master in the Databook. Which makes Gai look even better for creating a Taijutsu master from a talentless kid


----------



## Bonly (Feb 26, 2015)

Scenario one and two would go to either Naruto or Sasuke after a long battle which could go either way. Sakura with only Taijutsu in scenario one isn't much of a threat and EoS Naruto+Sasuke would be so far above her in scenario two that it's not even funny


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 26, 2015)

Bonly said:


> Scenario one and two would go to either Naruto or Sasuke after a long battle which could go either way. Sakura with only Taijutsu in scenario one isn't much of a threat and EoS Naruto+Sasuke would be so far above her in scenario two that it's not even funny



Y'all do know that Sakura starting at Shippuden and forward has always and will be always better than Sasuke and Naruto when it comes to taijutsu. That's a no-brainer. Even EOS Sakura is still better at taijutsu that doesn't involve chakra enhancements than the other 2. I'd like to see them bust towns apart with a single punch


----------



## Bonly (Feb 26, 2015)

DavyChan said:


> Y'all do know that Sakura starting at Shippuden and forward has always and will be always better than Sasuke and Naruto when it comes to taijutsu. That's a no-brainer.



In the third databook Kishi himself gave Naruto and Sasuke a 3.5 in Taijutsu while he only gave Sakura a 3. Not only that but in pure taijutsu she's is in no way outright better then either of the two.



> Even EOS Sakura is still better at taijutsu that doesn't involve chakra enhancements than the other 2. I'd like to see them bust towns apart with a single punch



What Sakura uses in order to "bust towns apart with a single punch" is a *NINJUTSU, a part of medical ninjutsu* at that so no in just *Pure Taijutsu* she can't do such nor does she have better taijutsu then either of them.


----------



## DavyChan (Feb 26, 2015)

Bonly said:


> In the third databook Kishi himself gave Naruto and Sasuke a 3.5 in Taijutsu while he only gave Sakura a 3. Not only that but in pure taijutsu she's is in no way outright better then either of the two.
> 
> 
> 
> What Sakura uses in order to "bust towns apart with a single punch" is a *NINJUTSU, a part of medical ninjutsu* at that so no in just *Pure Taijutsu* she can't do such nor does she have better taijutsu then either of them.



Well then tht ninjutsu is permitted becuz that is what i meant.


----------



## TheGreen1 (Feb 26, 2015)

DavyChan said:


> Tsunade beasted orochimaru using only taijutsu.
> 
> And I meant Canon



An Orochimaru without arms. And it was Two vs One.


----------



## Zef (Feb 26, 2015)

I still can't comprehend scenario 2. I'll just give it to Sasuke, and be done with it.


----------



## Jabba (Feb 26, 2015)

*Scenario 1:* Since Sakura's superhuman pimp hand is considered ninjutsu, she really doesn't have much going for her.  

Both Naruto and Sasuke have better taijutsu, speed, strength, and stamina according to the Databook. She dies while Naruto and Sasuke juke it out for a cool second before Sasuke kills him. 

*Scenario 2:* lol


----------



## TheGreen1 (Feb 26, 2015)

Jabba said:


> *Scenario 1:* Since Sakura's superhuman pimp hand is considered ninjutsu, she really doesn't have much going for her.
> 
> Both Naruto and Sasuke have better taijutsu, speed, strength, and stamina according to the Databook. She dies while Naruto and Sasuke juke it out for a cool second before Sasuke kills him.
> 
> *Scenario 2:* lol



Nobody should ever mistake that in Part 1, Sasuke is winning this scenario.


----------



## Hachibi (Feb 26, 2015)

Okay. What the hell is going on in this thread?

Also, Sakura is non-factor in both scenario and lolDB doesn't change that.


----------



## Jabba (Feb 26, 2015)

TheGreen1 said:


> Nobody should ever mistake that in Part 1, Sasuke is winning this scenario.



Mistake what?


----------



## Mofo (Feb 26, 2015)

Scenario 1 : Sasuke takes this
Scenario 2: EOS Naruto (= Seventh Hokage?) rips them to shreds, lol, not even debatable, if SM is allowed then his victory is  even more violent .


----------



## Hachibi (Feb 26, 2015)

Mofo said:


> Scenario 2: EOS Naruto (= Seventh Hokage?) rips them to shreds, lol, not even debatable,



>Saying that after VOTE2


----------



## Mofo (Feb 26, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> >Saying that after VOTE2


Last time I checked, Sasuke admitted defeat. He was beaten by a guy who had spent most of his energy and wasn't even trying,  and Sasuke  had 9 bijuus at his disposal.


----------



## Hachibi (Feb 26, 2015)

Mofo said:


> Last time I checked, Sasuke admitted defeat. He was beaten by a guy who had spent most of his energy *and wasn't even trying*,  and Sasuke  had 9 bijuus at his disposal.



>Wasn't even trying
>Used the world energy



Last time I checked, they both lost their arms.


----------



## Mofo (Feb 26, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> >Wasn't even trying
> >Used the world energy
> 
> 
> ...


Sasukay, I don't want to beat you, not this way.
>>>
Sasuke: You won.
>>>
Naruto: Stop joking around, that wasn't a real fight

:


----------



## Arles Celes (Feb 26, 2015)

Mofo said:


> Last time I checked, Sasuke admitted defeat. He was beaten by a guy who had spent most of his energy and wasn't even trying,  and Sasuke  had 9 bijuus at his disposal.



Well, this is a taijutsu fight and Sasuke did not use bijuus against Naruto when they became unable to use RSM and Rinnegan respectively. Also when they used taijutsu Sasuke was as exhausted as Naruto at that point. As for Sasuke admitting defeat it was more of a moral defeat given the condition of both IMO.

Of course if RSM is allowed while ninjutsu not then Sasuke is owned here.


----------



## heartsutra (Feb 26, 2015)

Is this meant to be a fight with intent to kill?
If so, Sakura will probably lose to Sasuke, +50% chance.
And this is not because she's inferior in combat.

OP, I love Sakura.
But I feel like you are doing all kinds of twister moves to handicap Sasuke/Naruto so that the outcome will be: Sakura wins. 
Not sure whether that's actually more like shitting on Sakura's character.

One thing though, I think Sakura's Chakra reserve can at least compete with Sasuke's or surpasses it even, if her seal is loaded at full capacity. Whatever full capacity is, since I don't know if there even is any limit.


And again, Naruto would never kill Sasuke.
So, Sasuke aces this.


----------



## Mofo (Feb 26, 2015)

Arles Celes said:


> Well, this is a taijutsu fight and Sasuke did not use bijuus against Naruto when they became unable to use RSM and Rinnegan respectively.



Yes, but while Naruto had been fighting for the whole war, Sasuke albeit depleted  had still chakra from the nine beasts. If you add y to x and  then remove x+y, you're ending with a zero. However if you remove x+y from z<x (where z and x are respectively Naruto's and Sasuke's starting level) you're ending into negative numbers. Can't be any more clear than that.


If we want to  play  such a matchup we need to stack the  opponents  while in a similar state, they  start  fresh, both of them.
How the fuck is Sasuke winning this one?  Naruto's base has  arguably improved  in the Last and onwards, he got an Hashirama's arm as well. EOS Sasuke still lacks an arm (correct me if I'm wrong), his power resides in the eyes and not in the body.


----------



## Hachibi (Feb 26, 2015)

Mofo said:


> Sasukay, I don't want to beat you, not this way.
> >>>
> Sasuke: You won.
> >>>
> ...



>they were both bloodied
>Ignore that because "lol nardo won"


----------



## Mofo (Feb 26, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> >they were both bloodied
> >Ignore that because "lol nardo won"



You haven't watched the last have you?


----------



## Arles Celes (Feb 26, 2015)

Mofo said:


> Yes, but while Naruto had been fighting for the whole war, Sasuke albeit depleted  had still chakra from the nine beasts. If you add y to x and  then remove x+y, you're ending with a zero. However if you remove x+y from z<x (where z and x are respectively Naruto's and Sasuke's starting level) you're ending into negative numbers. Can't be any more clear than that.
> 
> 
> If we want to  play  such a matchup we need to stack the  opponents  while in a similar state, they  start  fresh, both of them.
> How the fuck is Sasuke winning this one?  Naruto's base has  arguably improved  in the Last and onwards, he got an Hashirama's arm as well. EOS Sasuke still lacks an arm (correct me if I'm wrong), his power resides in the eyes and not in the body.



Wasn't it just Naruto's own chakra reserves while Kurama's were still rather high? And Sasuke did not replenish his own chakra reserves with the bijuus but put them right away in his PS. Controlling chakra even when it is not your own can be very chakra consuming in itself as Kurama said that Naruto using his chakra sharing on so many people at once can exhaust him.

Furthermore it makes one wonder one thing. Did Naruto's own chakra reserves increase when he got Hagoromo's chakra or not? Since Kurama says that Naruto's own chakra reserves were low due to the war the its easy to assume that RS's chakra did neither restore his own chakra nor made his chakra pool superior. After all if Pre-RS power up Naruto got say...100 chakra points and gets 300 from RS then even if those 100 were reduced to even 1 point he would still have 301 in total which would make his chakra loss in war to not look all that significant especially with Kurama being a huge extra chakra supply which can replenish on its own. IF Naruto's chakra was actually increased or replenished then it means that Kurama meant the war as the fight against Juubi Madara and Kaguya as the reasons for his low chakra at that point.

Anyway, chakra plays little role in a taijutsu fight. If Kurama is not supplying Naruto with extra chakra nor is he allowed RSM then I do not see Sasuke's chances as being so low given how their strength at VoTE 2 was roughly equal, their speed too(though Sasuke may have been slightly faster with Shunshin given how he got up before Naruto did when they smacked each other and destroyed 3 of Naruto's clones) and the taijutsu skill as well given how Sasuke soon was unable to take advantage of his sharingan and had the other eye closed while Naruto still got enough chakra to still use Rasengan.

But yeah, there is the problem of Sasuke's arm right now. If we talk about the epilogue when referring to EoS then there is a chance that he recovered it though given that he returned to Konoha and was no longer wearing vagabond clothes(with a Hashi prosthetic arm still being an option for him). Though if he didn't -then unless he became some kind of amazing handicapped badass who can make up for his loss with improved skill- then he won't stand a chance.


----------



## Hachibi (Feb 26, 2015)

Mofo said:


> You haven't watched the last have you?



And The Last change what? Moon-level? Sasuke blowed something above Konoha with just a base Chidori.


----------



## Mofo (Feb 26, 2015)

Arles Celes said:


> Wasn't it just Naruto's own chakra reserves while Kurama's were still rather high?


Kurama's reserves were down too, as you know, Kurama's chakra is not unlimited, and in fact he went to sleep right after that.



> And Sasuke did not replenish his own chakra reserves with the bijuus but put them right away in his PS. Controlling chakra even when it is not your own can be very chakra consuming in itself as Kurama said that Naruto using his chakra sharing on so many people at once can exhaust him.


PS is an extension of Sasuke's, so I'm not getting your point (that chakra even allowed him to scale up his own justus, Indira's arrow for example).
Naruto was exhausted because he  mixed Kurama's chakra alongside his own (not only Kishimoto made it clear via hashirama, but the guy did even draw a panel explaining how Naruto's chakra transfer works).  Was Shikamaru exausted by  receiving Kurama/Naruto's chakra? No, so why  should Sasuke?  The receiver is actually better off. 
Keep in mind that unlike Obito, Sasuke did put the bijuus  under genjutsu, he didn't  have to wrestle with them.



> Furthermore it makes one wonder one thing. Did Naruto's own chakra reserves increase when he got Hagoromo's chakra or not? Since Kurama says that Naruto's own chakra reserves were low due to the war the its easy to assume that RS's chakra did neither restore his own chakra nor made his chakra pool superior. After all if Pre-RS power up Naruto got say...100 chakra points and gets 300 from RS then even if those 100 were reduced to even 1 point he would still have 301 in total which would make his chakra loss in war to not look all that significant especially with Kurama being a huge extra chakra supply which can replenish on its own.


Furthermore, Sasuke would have received the same powerup, circular argument.
If Naruto's final form works anything like regular SM, he'd still have to constantly balance his chakra, Kurama's and Nature's energy. That's why Kurama went to sleep,  that's why Naruto  sooner or later will exit that mode. It doesn't grant infinite energy, it's renewable energy, that's different.



> IF Naruto's chakra was actually increased or replenished then it means that Kurama meant the war as the fight against Juubi Madara and Kaguya as the reasons for his low chakra at that point.


That's the same isn't it? Naruto still  carried the team and wasted more energy  than Sasuke  (remember that Naruto not only healed Obito and powered up the Kamui, he kept Kaguya at bay)



> Anyway, chakra plays little role in a taijutsu fight. If Kurama is not supplying Naruto with extra chakra nor is he allowed RSM then I do not see Sasuke's chances as being so low given how their strength at VoTE 2 was roughly equal, their speed too(though Sasuke may have been slightly faster with Shunshin given how he got up before Naruto did when they smacked each other and destroyed 3 of Naruto's clones) and the taijutsu skill as well given how Sasuke quickly was unable to even use his sharingan and had the other eye closed while Naruto could still use Rasengan.


Chakra  is a valid proxy (and added fatigue to boot). Chakra is made  of spiritual energy and stamina/phys energy.  Inductive logic, if you're out of chakra then you're probably out of stamina as well.



> But yeah, there is the problem of Sasuke's arm right now. If we talk about the epilogue when referring to EoS then there is a chance that he recovered it though given that he returned to Konoha and was no longer wearing vagabond clothes(with a Hashi prosthetic arm still being an option for him). Though if he didn't -then unless he became some kind of amazing handicapped badass who can make up for his loss with improved skill- then he won't stand a chance.


The last feats aside (if you have seen the final clash, you'll know why  whether handicapped or not, Sasuke can't win this fight).



Hachibi said:


> And The Last change what? Moon-level? Sasuke blowed something above Konoha with just a base Chidori.



You need to watch the final clash to understand. 


P.S.
What Lee and Sasuke did is nothing compared to what Naruto and Toneri do (I'm not joking).
They are probably better than two rinnegan madara (the one who casted the multiple chibaku tensei).
There is a scene (on the moon) where toneri casts a huge whirpool  and defaces a side of the moon (you see a shot from the space), it makes Lee's meteor look like a small rock.
There is another scene where Toneri cuts the moon in half with a laser attack (which Naruto tanks in the face). 
Naruto defeats Toneri while in base (he uses a partial transformation/shinin chakra on his hashi arm but the rest of his body is in base) and sends him flying crashing into a wall which gets destroyed (after that, Toneri  goes berserk and achieves his final form). It wouldn't be impressive if Toneri wasn't in bijuu mode and had his own gudodamas. Also Kurama is separated form naruto, they act independently. The movie is canon, but it shouldn't really be, like most Naruto movies, the feats are over the top and really clash with the  manga


----------



## Hachibi (Feb 26, 2015)

Mofo said:


> You need to watch the final clash to understand.



Saw it. This is at Two-Eyed Juudara level shit, which both Naruto and Sasuke already are before 
The Last.




> P.S.
> What Lee and Sasuke did is nothing compared to what Naruto and Toneri do (I'm not joking).
> They are probably better than two rinnegan madara (the one who casted the multiple chibaku tensei).
> There is a scene (on the moon) where toneri casts a huge whirpool  and defaces a side of the moon (you see a shot from the space), it makes Lee's meteor look like a small rock.
> ...



Naruto defeating Toneri in Base is power of love so it shouldn't be taken seriously, especially since 100% BSM Naruto could only stalemate him.

Also Toneri doesn't have Bijuu Mode.


----------



## Kyu (Feb 26, 2015)

Scenario one isn't worth discussing. 

In Scenario two, Sasuke is missing a limb while his rival's superhuman strength got boosted ever further. I'm not liking his chances. He and Naruto were equals in hand to hand when he had both arms.


----------



## Arles Celes (Feb 26, 2015)

Mofo said:


> Kurama's reserves were down too, as you know, Kurama's chakra is not unlimited, and in fact he went to sleep right after that.



The state of Kurama's own chakra reserves was not brought up though. Especially given that Kurama can replenish his own chakra. ALSO Naruto was benefiting from both of Kurama halves during this war with each gathering chakra and replenishing it during battle.

Sasuke himself had his chakra replenished before VoTE 2 only once when Naruto gave him the cloak. Unless of course both him and Naruto got a chakra replenish and increase from RS.




Mofo said:


> PS is an extension of Sasuke's, so I'm not getting your point (that chakra even allowed him to scale up his own justus, Indira's arrow for example).
> Naruto was exhausted because he  mixed Kurama's chakra alongside his own (not only Kishimoto made it clear via hashirama, but the guy did even draw a panel explaining how Naruto's chakra transfer works).  Was Shikamaru exausted by  receiving Kurama/Naruto's chakra? No, so why  should Sasuke?  The receiver is actually better off.
> Keep in mind that unlike Obito, Sasuke did put the bijuus  under genjutsu, he didn't  have to wrestle with them.



To be honest I see PS as a mid controlled chakra host to which Sasuke can transfer his own chakra to but I do not see Sasuke himself being able to replenish his own chakra reserves through it unlike as if he became a jin and directly recived bijuu chakra IMO. As for the chakra sharing it is unknown how much chakra Naruto needs to put into Kurama's own chakra when sharing it with others. Kurama said though that controlling so much of Kurama's chakra at once what caused Naruto to exhaust himself.
with his body

And Naruto himself did run out of chakra during this war looong ago actually.
with his body

His chakra reserves needed to be recharged by Kurama himself several times. It looks like even after recharging and having BM run out, Naruto's own chakra capacity may be actually similar to the one from the Wind arc as weird as that is.
with his body
with his body

Three FRS are enough to make him collapse to the ground. Just like back then:
with his body

And while Shikamaru did not get exhausted when getting a Kurama cloak it was IMO due to the fact that he wasn't the one controlling it. He just received it. Controlling others with chakra was already stated before to consume chakra too. Like controlling bijuus.
with his body

And controlling others with genjutsu using eye powers uses tons of chakra as Kakashi said. When you use genjutsu on a person said person still will keep struggling to break himself free. Like Kurama tried:
Link removed



Mofo said:


> Furthermore, Sasuke would have received the same powerup, circular argument.
> If Naruto's final form works anything like regular SM, he'd still have to constantly balance his chakra, Kurama's and Nature's energy. That's why Kurama went to sleep,  that's why Naruto  sooner or later will exit that mode. It doesn't grant infinite energy, it's renewable energy, that's different.



I'm not sure. If he got chakra directly then it would definitely replenish his chakra reserves. Like becoming a Jin. Then he would be able to rely on bijuu chakra without having to waste his own on controlling said bijuu chakra.

 With RSM it is a bit more complicated. If Naruto's own chakra reserves were so low at that time then how could he manage to control the entire world energy on his own by balancing it? And RSM does not seem to submit to the same rules as SM since he had it activated through the whole fight with Kaguya and Madara while SM ends usually rather fast and needs recharging. It was more like his KCM which he had kept activated for longer periods of time.

Naruto did exit the mode both due to using all of Kurama's chakra's and world nature energy in this attack combined with getting hit to an extent by the explosion. Naruto already happened to exit his super modes if hit hard enough.
Link removed
Link removed

And Kurama did go to sleep because he was unable to gather chakra faster than he was spending it in their final battle which forced him-after Sasuke absorbed some of his chakra- to give seemingly the chakra that was keeping him awake in the first place. If Kurama was mortal he might have died then.



Mofo said:


> That's the same isn't it? Naruto still  carried the team and wasted more energy  than Sasuke  (remember that Naruto not only healed Obito and powered up the Kamui, he kept Kaguya at bay)
> 
> 
> Chakra  is a valid proxy (and added fatigue to boot). Chakra is made  of spiritual energy and stamina/phys energy.  Inductive logic, if you're out of chakra then you're probably out of stamina as well.
> ...



It is hard to measure how much chakra Naruto and Sasuke wasted in their fight against Kaguya and Madara tbh. Sasuke used his PS like almost half a dozen times and Kurama needs tons of time to gather enough chakra for Naruto to enter the BM avatar form. It is also unknown how much chakra uses Amenojikara or Naruto's own Sun seal healing. Sasuke also seemingly wasted chakra trying to escape Kaguya's desert dimension and having it stolen for a time alongside Naruto when BZ attached himself to them.The chakra Naruto used for most of his individual fight against Kaguya was an extra chakra boost from Kurama who yet again gathered even more chakra for him to use.
Link removed

And regarding chakra...Naruto and Sasuke were able to fight like for half a day despite Sasuke  having no chakra left neither for one more chidori nor to keep his sharingan active. Naruto may not had chakra for more rasengans either. So maybe stamina and chakra do have some subtle difference even if they are connected to each other.

As for your final comment to what are you referring to given that they received the same amount of damage? In any case this is a taijutsu match so I do not see how their rasengan vs chidori clash plays a role here.


----------

