# Marco Vs Doflamingo and Ace



## LyricalMessiah (Jun 21, 2014)

Who would win, Marco or Doflamingo and ace?

Distance; 40 meters

location; marineford


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## Magician (Jun 21, 2014)

Marco, high-extreme diff.


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## Ruse (Jun 21, 2014)

Marco edges it extreme diff


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## Bohemian Knight (Jun 21, 2014)

Marco mid-high diff, maybe high depending on what Doffy shows this arc


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jun 21, 2014)

Don't think Ace will make that much of a difference, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and bump the diff up to a high/extreme diff win for Marco.


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## Nekochako (Jun 21, 2014)

Marco wins this high difficulity.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 21, 2014)

Would give it to Marco as well, with high diff. His regeneration ability is a very good defensive ability to not succumb too quickly from the team and he's practically immune to flames. I can see Doflamingo's haki imbued string pose some threat to Marco but there's really nothing that he can dish out at marco that Marco's body cannot regenerate. Hence him taking yasakani no magatama,


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## Luke (Jun 21, 2014)

Doflamingo and Ace win with high difficulty.


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## The Bloody Nine (Jun 21, 2014)

We know next to nothing about all these people. But i favour Ace and Doflamingo high difficulty.


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## Ruse (Jun 21, 2014)

Master Luke said:


> Doflamingo and Ace win with high difficulty.



How are they getting past Marco's regen?


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## barreltheif (Jun 21, 2014)

Doflamingo and Ace, mid to high diff.


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## The Bloody Nine (Jun 21, 2014)

ThatBlackGuy said:


> How are they getting past Marco's regen?



Oda said there is a limit to Marcos regen. If dofla cuts off his head or Ace burns out his heart i doubt he will regen it.


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## Ruse (Jun 21, 2014)

The Bloody Nine said:


> Oda said there is a limit to Marcos regen. If dofla cuts off his head or Ace burns out his heart i doubt he will regen it.



We haven't seen what that limit is so no point bringing that up, how does Doffy cut his head off? overheat?


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## Luke (Jun 21, 2014)

ThatBlackGuy said:


> How are they getting past Marco's regen?



Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a limit to his regen? I think both Dofla and Ace attacking him at the same time consistently would eventually meet that limit.


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## Ruse (Jun 21, 2014)

Master Luke said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a limit to his regen? I think both Dofla and Ace attacking him at the same time consistently would eventually meet that limit.



Yes it does have a limit but that limit wasn't reached during the war bearing in mind he took two bursts of Yasakani No Magatama just fine. 

I'm not saying Marco lolstomps or anything but in the end I think he can edge them out, he has the best defense plus superior BH in this fight.


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## monkey d ace (Jun 21, 2014)

could go either way.


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## Lawliet (Jun 21, 2014)

Marco dies.  Doflamingo with the help of someone like Ace should do it. 

And no I'm not going to answer any stupid questions that looks like "how is Doflamingo going past Marco's regeneration".


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## Dunno (Jun 21, 2014)

Duo takes it mid-high diff.


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## tanman (Jun 21, 2014)

Marco w/ very high difficulty. 
Doflamingo and Ace don't seem like much of a combo. I envision them getting in each other's way more than anything.


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## NO (Jun 21, 2014)

ThatBlackGuy said:


> How are they getting past Marco's regen?



Oh, you're right. They don't. His regen is impeccable. Game over. Marco no diff. In fact, why are there even any Marco threads in the OPBD since he clearly never takes any damage, ever, and should always win because of that?

...In an SBS, Oda said Marco's regeneration has a limit that he'd touch on later in the manga.


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## trance (Jun 21, 2014)

The Bloody Nine said:


> Oda said there is a limit to Marcos regen. If dofla cuts off his head or Ace burns out his heart i doubt he will regen it.



Marco flew through Kizaru's "Yasakani no Magatama" like it was nothing, fought on similar grounds with Yellow Monkey-san for an extended period of time and later shrugged off Sakazuki's magma punch. Honestly, I don't see how Ace and Doffy can top that.


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## Lawliet (Jun 21, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Marco flew through Kizaru's "Yasakani no Magatama" like it was nothing, fought on similar grounds with Yellow Monkey-san for an extended period of time and later shrugged off Sakazuki's magma punch. Honestly, I don't see how Ace and Doffy can top that.



Ace stopped an attack from Aokiji, and Doflamingo is hyped a lot and shown feats that put him on Jozu's level.


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## trance (Jun 21, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Ace stopped an attack from Aokiji



Elemental advantage. Marco shrugged off an attack that held elemental superiority over Ace.



> and Doflamingo is hyped a lot and shown feats that put him on Jozu's level.



Slightly below IMO but that's not the point. How does this correlate to him being able to exhaust Marco's regeneration when an Admiral level fighter was struggling to do so, especially considering that Marco doesn't have to just tank their attacks?


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## Canute87 (Jun 21, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Marco flew through Kizaru's "Yasakani no Magatama" like it was nothing, fought on similar grounds with Yellow Monkey-san for an extended period of time and later shrugged off Sakazuki's magma punch. Honestly, I don't see how Ace and Doffy can top that.



Nobody without instant regen can pull off what Marco did.


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## GIORNO (Jun 21, 2014)

Mid- Low High Diff.


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## Lawliet (Jun 21, 2014)

I am not going to take marine ford feats and use them as the only source. That's dumb. Marco shrug off an attack from Akainu, so what. He failed to attack Akainu, he failed to reach his real body. What kind of a yonkou first mate you are if you can't even reach a logia's real body.  See, I can use these kind of arguments to support what I'm saying, but I don't need to, I don't have to. 

Doflamingo uses sharp threads, threads comparable to swords in sharpness. He is a Haki monster, he has a hax ability that can fuck Marco up and let him reach his limit asap. All he has to do is restrict his movement for 5 secs so Ace punches him in the face. 

Ace can use his range attacks while Doflamingo slashes from left and right. There's something called teamwork, and no; I'm not going to assume Ace and Doflamingo have the worst teamwork ever. That is dumb, and not a fair match up.


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## trance (Jun 21, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> I am not going to take marine ford feats and use them as the only source. That's dumb. Marco shrug off an attack from Akainu, so what. He failed to attack Akainu, he failed to reach his real body. What kind of a yonkou first mate you are if you can't even reach a logia's real body.  See, I can use these kind of arguments to support what I'm saying, but I don't need to, I don't have to.



Why are you pinning his shortcomings against Akainu to Doffy, a comparatively much weaker adversary?



> Doflamingo uses sharp threads, threads comparable to swords in sharpness. He is a Haki monster, he has a hax ability that can fuck Marco up and let him reach his limit asap. All he has to do is restrict his movement for 5 secs so Ace punches him in the face.



Seriously, if "Yasakani no Magatama" did jackshit to Marco, how the hell are Doffy's strings going to hurt him?

And what proof do you have to suggest "Parasite" can restrict Marco's phoenix form?


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jun 21, 2014)

The Bloody Nine said:


> Oda said there is a limit to Marcos regen. If dofla cuts off his head or Ace burns out his heart i doubt he will regen it.


Marco regenerated holes blown through his head from Kizaru's YNK, then literally flew through Kizaru's continued barrage. Doflamingo and Ace aren't putting him down.


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## Extravlad (Jun 21, 2014)

> and shown feats that put him on Jozu's level.


Beating weaponless Smoker, injured Law and Sanji = Jozu's level right now?
Dofla has not even a single feat comparable to Jozu who stopped a serious attack from the WSS, threw a giant iceberg (best strength feat so far) and wasn't overpowered by Kuzan in a 1V1 fight.

Jozu's feats >>>>>> Dofla's.


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## barreltheif (Jun 22, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Seriously, if "Yasakani no Magatama" did jackshit to Marco, how the hell are Doffy's strings going to hurt him?




YoM damaged Marco, but he regenerated. The same thing will happen with Doffy's and Ace's attacks, for a while-until he reaches his limit.



> you have to suggest "Parasite" can restrict Marco's phoenix form?



Huh? Why would Parasite work any worse on Marco than on Jozu or Sanji?




Extravlad said:


> Beating weaponless Smoker, injured Law and Sanji = Jozu's level right now?




Low-mid diffing Law, no diffing Sanji, no diffing Smoker, no diffing Jozu, no diffing and toying with multiple VAs at once, and being a saga antagonist of the NW after being hyped up for 500 chapters

>>>

getting low diffed by Aokiji despite getting the jump on him while he was fighting WB, punching Croc with Haki and doing less damage than Alabasta Luffy's Storm did, getting no diffed by Doffy, blocking a slash from Mihawk who was half a mile away, tossing a big chunk of ice, and being a top yonkou commander in a crew whose captain is portrayed as far above his subordinates.


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## Extravlad (Jun 22, 2014)

> Low-mid diffing Law, no diffing Sanji, no diffing Smoker, no diffing Jozu, no diffing and toying with multiple VAs at once, and being a saga antagonist of the NW after being hyped up for 500 chapters


No diffing Jozu, yea right Jou was soo defeated after getting caught by Dofla.
-Being the first saga antagonist of the ne world = being a fodder to future antagonist.



> getting low diffed by Aokiji


You're biased, this is out of the context, Jozu lost because he was distracted.



> punching Croc with Haki and doing less damage than Alabasta Luffy's Storm did


Please, CROC WAS PORTRAYED EQUAL WITH DOFLAMINGO, at Marineford.



> getting no diffed by Doffy


Doffy did nothing to Jozu but blocking him for a minute.

Jozu > Vista > Dofla.


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## trance (Jun 22, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> YoM damaged Marco, but he regenerated. The same thing will happen with Doffy's and Ace's attacks, for a while-until he reaches his limit.



And Marco's just going to sit there and let them continuously attack him? Right. 



> Huh? Why would Parasite work any worse on Marco than on Jozu or Sanji?



Because..

a. His abilities work much differently than Jozu's

b. He is stronger than Jozu and _much_ stronger than Sanji


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## barreltheif (Jun 22, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> And Marco's just going to sit there and let them continuously attack him? Right.




Don't change the subject. You asked how Doffy and Ace can hurt Marco, given that Marco regened from Kizaru's lasers. I told you how: by damaging him enough times that his regen hits its limit. Obviously, Marco isn't going to sit there and make it easy for them. But that's not what we were discussing.





> Because..
> a. His abilities work much differently than Jozu's
> b. He is stronger than Jozu and _much_ stronger than Sanji




In what *relevant *way is Marco different than Jozu? Why would Marco be rendered less helpless than Jozu or Sanji by Parasite?


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## barreltheif (Jun 22, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> No diffing Jozu, yea right Jou was soo defeated after getting caught by Dofla.
> -Being the first saga antagonist of the ne world = being a fodder to future antagonist.




Just like Croc was fodder to the future antagonists of Paradise-Jyabura, Kaku, Lucci, Moria, Ryuma, etc? Yeah, I didn't think so.
Not that this is relevant, since Jozu and anyone weaker than him sure as hell isn't going to be a saga antagonist in the New World.




> You're biased, this is out of the context, Jozu lost because he was distracted.




Jozu ambushed Aokiji, blindsiding and punching him, while Aokiji was fighting WB. Aokiji was basically unharmed. The manga focused away from them for several pages. When we returned to them, Jozu immediately got distracted because Marco was hit by attack that he then easily regened from. Aokiji one-shotted Jozu. Jozu was dismembered. Aokiji was unharmed.

This is a completely objective account of what happened. Jozu's performance against Aokiji at MF is the very definition of getting low-diffed.





> Please, CROC WAS PORTRAYED EQUAL WITH DOFLAMINGO, at Marineford.
> Doffy did nothing to Jozu but blocking him for a minute.
> Jozu > Vista > Dofla.




You haven't read Marineford. Doffy didn't block Jozu. At all. He immobilized him and used him as a stool. Croc is not equal with Doffy.


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## Extravlad (Jun 22, 2014)

> Just like Croc was fodder to the future antagonists of Paradise-Jyabura, Kaku, Lucci, Moria, Ryuma, etc? Yeah, I didn't think so.


Part 1 and part 2 are completely different.
And yes if you take Croc's feats from Alabasta then he is definitely fodder to Rob Lucci.



> Not that this is relevant, since Jozu and anyone weaker than him sure as hell isn't going to be a saga antagonist in the New World.


Dofla is weaker than Jozu and he's a saga antagonist in the new world.



> Jozu ambushed Aokiji, blindsiding and punching him, while Aokiji was fighting WB. Aokiji was basically unharmed. The manga focused away from them for several pages. When we returned to them, Jozu immediately got distracted because Marco was hit by attack that he then easily regened from. Aokiji one-shotted Jozu. Jozu was dismembered. Aokiji was unharmed.


This is just showing that Kuzan IS stronger than Jozu by a good margin, who denied that? If Kuzan has an opportunity on Jozu, he will oneshot him yes, because his power is hax an doesn't take durability in count.
Still Doflamingo have to run away when Kuzan come to save Smoker.

Jozu has been portrayed as a fighter able to hold his own against Kuzan, Oda had to use an excuse to make him lose, if he was just fodder to Kizaru, then he would have been oneshot without being distracted.



> You haven't read Marineford. Doffy didn't block Jozu. At all. He immobilized him and used him as a stool. Croc is not equal with Doffy.


Same thing, he immobilized him, and wasn't able to do anything relevant to Jozu.


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## trance (Jun 22, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> Don't change the subject. You asked how Doffy and Ace can hurt Marco, given that Marco regened from Kizaru's lasers. I told you how: by damaging him enough times that his regen hits its limit. Obviously, Marco isn't going to sit there and make it easy for them. But that's not what we were discussing.



Ok. I know this. Lucci would eventually wear out his regeneration if he's able to attack him enough times. 

That's not helping the argument that he loses.



> In what *relevant *way is Marco different than Jozu? Why would Marco be rendered less helpless than Jozu or Sanji by Parasite?



Look at how he handled Kizaru's attack. They literally phased through his person, granting him a sort of pseudo-Logia intangibility. This is not mention his Haki and unlikelihood of getting caught in the first place.


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## TheWiggian (Jun 22, 2014)

Marco wins this very high diff

he was not at his limit while fighting the marines strongest force and tanking attacks which can destroy islands.

i doubt DD and some1 like Ace can push him further.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 22, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Ok. I know this. Lucci would eventually wear out his regeneration if he's able to attack him enough times.
> 
> That's not helping the argument that he loses.
> 
> ...



Marco does not have "pseudo logia" intangibility no matter how it seems to appeal to you. You can cut him, but the part of the body that you cut, or injure, will regenerate at a fast rate. It's as simple as that.

And Marco is not physically stronger than Jozu, no way.


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## trance (Jun 22, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Marco does not have "pseudo logia" intangibility no matter how it seems to appeal to you. You can cut him, but the part of the body that you cut, or injure, will regenerate at a fast rate. It's as simple as that.



Yea, uhh, no shit. When I say "pseudo", I mean it looks like Logia intangibility because it just slips through his body like YnM did even though it's really not.


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## 2Broken (Jun 22, 2014)

I bring you the 3 myths of Marco:

1. Marco's fruit allows him to tank attacks.

2. Marco's fruit gives him logia abilities.

3. Marco's fruit provides him a regen limit that requires at least admiral level firepower to get past in a reasonable amount of time.

All three are false yet many in the battledome believe it, so in the eyes of many Marco has become impossible to harm for all but a handful of characters in the OP verse.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 23, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Yea, uhh, no shit. When I say "pseudo", I mean it looks like Logia intangibility because it just slips through his body like YnM did even though it's really not.



Infantile remark. Yeah, uhh, there's no denying to the fact that you were wrong, very wrong at that, in saying that he has pseudo logia intangibility because he really does not have any sort of pseudo logia intangibility. He is not a logia, deal with it. He's a zoan who can regenerate any parts of his body that have been injured. It didn't slip through his body  He transformed into his phoenix form and took yasakana no magatama directly on his body with a lot of INJURIES on his body that were promptly healed at a very fast rate to the point it made those injuries he received from Yasakana no magatama non existent.


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## Kaiser (Jun 23, 2014)

Marco mid difficulty. He is on par with Kizaru. Pretty sure if we replaced Marco by Kizaru, people would say he wins mid difficulty, maybe even low(for the admiral wankers)


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## trance (Jun 23, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Infantile remark. Yeah, uhh, there's no denying to the fact that you were wrong, very wrong at that, in saying that he has pseudo logia intangibility because he really does not have any sort of pseudo logia intangibility. *He is not a logia, deal with it*. He's a zoan who can regenerate any parts of his body that have been injured. It didn't slip through his body  He transformed into his phoenix form and took yasakana no magatama directly on his body with a lot of INJURIES on his body that were promptly healed at a very fast rate to the point it made those injuries he received from Yasakana no magatama no existent.



Are you blind? I just said he isn't a Logia. 

Anyway, reported for flaming.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 23, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Are you blind? I just said he isn't a Logia.
> 
> Anyway, reported for flaming.



Hypocritical of you. You accuse me of flamebaiting, yet you did just that in this quoted post of yours  

I am not blind mind you.

Saying  an objective truth as to you making an infantile remark to my post that wasn't remotely condescending or inciting a reaction out of you constitutes to you having to report my post? Another infantile remark  

You made this claim; "granting him a sort of pseudo-Logia intangibility" for the purpose of trying to attempt at proving how Doflamingo's strings will not control Marco but you fail to understand that he isn't a logia who'd have any attacks pass right through him. He simply heals at a fast rate which gives the allusion that he possesses the same defensive traits as a logia.


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## trance (Jun 23, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Saying  an objective truth as to you making an infantile remark to my post that wasn't remotely condescending or inciting a reaction out of you constitutes to you having to report my post? Another infantile remark



Ok. Reporting for being a troll. Is that better? 



> You made this claim; "granting him a sort of pseudo-Logia intangibility" for the purpose of trying to attempt at proving how Doflamingo's strings will not control Marco but you fail to understand that he isn't a logia who'd have any attacks pass right through him. *He simply heals at a fast rate which gives the allusion that he possesses the same defensive traits as a logia*.



This is what I meant. 

Won't address the actual argument because it wasn't directed at you.



> Hypocritical of you. You accuse me of flamebaiting, yet you did just that in this quoted post of yours



You're misconstruing my wording.


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## Shanks (Jun 23, 2014)

2Broken said:


> I bring you the 3 myths of Marco:
> 
> 1. Marco's fruit allows him to tank attacks.
> 
> ...




^ 

1) It's Marco's top tier endurance allows him to tank and his regen allows him to stop burns. Who is saying Marco's attack allows him to tank fruit
2) Marco's fruit have shown to regen half of his head, Logia or not, he's fully capable of regening his vital organs an from attacks that would otherwise kill someone else.
3) Not just admiral level fire power but speed also. He was fast enough to keep up with Kizaru, so why you think non-top tier can keep up with him 1 v 1 or even last long enough, attacks and make it count, before he kicks his/her face on the ground is bothersome.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 23, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Ok. Reporting for being a troll. Is that better?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Okay, your argument is that I am a troll. So I ask you on what basis can you deem me as such? Have I done anything that correlates with flaming to get you to make up things about me? 

The term I used as a descriptor to your action was perfectly justified because you acted like a child when you responded with "Uhh, no shit" What's worse is that you are making up lies about how I "flamed" you. If so, where did I flame you exactly?

When you overuse "" it pretty much tells me that you're trying your hardest to not admit defeat and want to sound like you are somehow winning at getting me angry. So now I'll have to use  as a counter to your half assed attempt at trying to prove me wrong and get me angry.

Pretty hypocritical of you to accuse me of flaming when I've done no such thing as I had given an objective assessment to your post and how it was wrong. You taking a prudish route by accusing me of things I've never done does not detract from the content of this debate about what you wrote being wrong.

So now I am a troll for lecturing you on how Marco's defensive ability bears absolutely no similarities to the defensive functions of that of a Logia users in having the same ability to not get damaged by attacks?  You're grasping at straws here.


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## Ruse (Jun 23, 2014)

I can see parasite giving Marco some trouble.


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## trance (Jun 23, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> The term I used as a descriptor to your action was perfectly justified because you acted like a child when you responded with "Uhh, no shit" What's worse is that you are making up lies about how I "flamed" you. If so, where did I flame you exactly?



Acting condescendingly against my intelligence which you perceived as infantile.



> When you overuse "" it pretty much tells me that you're trying your hardest to not admit defeat and want to sound like you are somehow winning at getting me angry. So now I'll have to use  as a counter to your half assed attempt at trying to prove me wrong and get me angry.



So, now I can't post a simple emoticon for shits and giggles? 



> Pretty hypocritical of you to accuse me of flaming when I've done no such thing as I had given an objective assessment to your post and how it was wrong. You taking a prudish route by accusing me of things I've never done does not detract from the content of this debate about what you wrote being wrong.



>Infantile remark
>No intent behind it



> So now I am a troll for lecturing you on how Marco's defensive ability bears absolutely no similarities to the defensive functions of that of a Logia users in having the same ability to not get damaged by attacks?  You're grasping at straws here.



In appearance. You even listed that it was similar in appearance and I agreed with you that was what I was saying. 

Seriously, I'm not "grasping at straws" or anything because *I fully acknowledge that his ability is not a Logia nor is it Logia-like in anything bar appearance*. That's actual fact. I'm not gonna refute that.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 23, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Acting condescendingly against my intelligence which you perceived as infantile.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My friend, you're interpreting my comment that I used as a reply to your post very poorly because your view of my comment of which I stated that your post was infantile isn't even vaguely in proportion to the truth. I claimed your post was infantile because of this comment "Uhh, no shit" which is further clear in its condescending nature based on our bad blood in that earlier thread where you called my post out on having no substance.


Straw-man. I never said you couldn't use it. I claimed that its intentions, you abusing its use, were aimed at me to try to disturb the flow of my consistency in proving  you wrong in which you hoped to get me angry. It is to no avail, I'll have you know.


I already explained how my comment "Infantile remark" isn't worthy of being deemed as flamebaiting on my part because I gave a reasonable explanation for why I used it; due to your comment ''uhh, no shit''


Yeah, I know, but I disagreed with you saying that Doflamingo's strings will work differently on Marco than others for the reason that his phoenix form reminisces you of the same defensive traits as the intangibility defense of a logia user. You claimed that the Yasakana no magatama bullets past right through marco. I refuted that claim by providing evidence of how the bullets never actually passed through him, but rather, had damaged him but the damage on him were healed at a fast rate. Thus given the allusion that he somehow has similar defensive functions as a logia user.

In furtherance, Doflamingo's strings will work on Marco similar to how it works on others. If Jozu was unable to escape from it, knowing that his strength is far above Marco's, then that invalidates that claim that Marco's physical strength will aid him in escaping from the grasp of Doflamingo's strings. Furthermore, you said that Marco's haki will be the key to his escape from Doflamingo's strings? This is an intelligent argument because we know Marco is a top tier level fighter, although it's assumed that his haki is on the same level as Jozu.

Perhaps I am wrong in saying that Marco's haki = Jozu's haki. This is arguable.


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## trance (Jun 23, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> In furtherance, Doflamingo's strings will work on Marco similar to how it works on others. If Jozu was unable to escape from it, knowing that his strength is far above Marco's, then that invalidates that claim that Marco's physical strength will aid him in escaping from the grasp of Doflamingo's strings. Furthermore, you said that Marco's haki will be the key to his escape from Doflamingo's strings? This is an intelligent argument because we know Marco is a top tier level fighter, although it's assumed that his haki is on the same level as Jozu.



But Jozu was also caught off guard by Doffy. If Marco is on point, he can probably avoid ending up like Jozu.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 23, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> But Jozu was also caught off guard by Doffy. If Marco is on point, he can probably avoid ending up like Jozu.



But that's arguing in an entirely different context. Notice how I never once insinuated that Marco would get caught? 

Yes, Jozu did get caught because he was caught off guard and it's assumed that he'd get caught regardless if he was off guard due to lack of speed but Marco is a different matter entirely.

Marco getting caught by Doflamingo is highly unlikely. I never made this claim, and if I did, that'd spark a major difference in opinion between you and I. I do agree that Marco wouldn't get caught, but when arguing whether or not the strings would work on him as they do on others, that's arguing entirely out of context to the argument of whether Marco would get caught. It's two different topics.

But you're right, he wouldn't get caught because he's very fast.


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## Shanks (Jun 23, 2014)

Stαrkiller made a BFF this week. So cute.


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## Dunno (Jun 23, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> But Jozu was also caught off guard by Doffy. If Marco is on point, he can probably avoid ending up like Jozu.



Well, you can't really call being attacked by an enemy standing right in front of you in plain sight being "caught off-guard".


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## Canute87 (Jun 23, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Well, you can't really call being attacked by an enemy standing right in front of you in plain sight being "caught off-guard".



Flamingo got behind him somehow.


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## trance (Jun 24, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Well, you can't really call being attacked by an enemy standing right in front of you in plain sight being "caught off-guard".



Jozu wasn't exactly paying attention to Doflamingo, now was he? []

The "!!?" seems to denote him being genuinely surprised, IMO at least.


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## barreltheif (Jun 24, 2014)

Doffy was right in front of Jozu. Then Doffy immobilized Jozu, surprising him, and used him as a footstool. It wasn't an ambush or anything like that.


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## Phoenix Zoro (Jun 25, 2014)

Marco mid-high diff. He's simply far above these 2. He's an admiral level fighter, these 2 are high tiers. The manga is doing its very best to show the gap between high and top tiers is enormous. He's not losing this.


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## Magentabeard (Jun 25, 2014)

So sad how Marco being admiral level is controversial here. Replace Marco with Kizaru and you get Kizaru winning low diff or stomping. The guy is nigh equal to Kizaru, he is not being pushed to high/extreme diff.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 25, 2014)

Marco wins with mid to high diff difficulty and doesn't lose against the dup because his regeneration will be something hard for both Ace whose flames are inept at dishing damage to his phoenix defense and Doflamingo's strings that are too slow to capture Marco..


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## Amol (Jun 25, 2014)

Pretty sure Kizaru vs DD and Ace would have resulted in 'stomp' in Kizaru's favour. After all Ace is 
'fodder'. He would get one shotted.
DD is also 'fodder' to people like WB, Admirals.
But of course Marco is not one of C3.
Those who had said high diff for Marco, will say low diff in Kizaru or any other admiral. I am sure of it.


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## Ruse (Jun 25, 2014)

Amol said:


> Pretty sure Kizaru vs DD and Ace would have resulted in 'stomp' in Kizaru's favour. After all Ace is
> 'fodder'. He would get one shotted.
> DD is also 'fodder' to people like WB, Admirals.
> But of course Marco is not one of C3.
> Those who had said high diff for Marco, will say low diff in Kizaru or any other admiral. I am sure of it.



Nah Kizaru vs Ace/DD would be a mid low diff win for Kizaru, Ace would be a non factor though. 

OT: I feel Doflamingo by himself could give Marco a good fight plus Ace who should at least be able to run interference so they take Marco to high diff.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 25, 2014)

^

Doflamingo wouldn't get one shot by kizaru or beaten by kizaru with ease, nor would adding ace make the win go to Kizaru with ease. Kizaru, at best, would win with mid difficulty.


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## Raiden34 (Aug 4, 2014)

Marco with high difficulty.


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## barreltheif (Aug 4, 2014)

The idea that Kizaru would stomp Ace+DD is utter insanity. I think Kizaru would beat them but Marco would lose.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Aug 4, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> The idea that Kizaru would stomp Ace+DD is utter insanity. I think Kizaru would beat them but Marco would lose.


Ace got mid diffed by Yami Blackbeard aka the guy who was on the ground crying after trying to take on a half faced Whitebeard. Kizaru or Marco would be able to take Ace out with little effort.


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## Unicornsilovethem (Aug 4, 2014)

Seriously guys, stop this Marco wank. DD made a joke of Jozu who is at least as strong as Marco. DD solos this thread.


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## barreltheif (Aug 4, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> Ace got mid diffed by Yami Blackbeard aka the guy who was on the ground crying after trying to take on a half faced Whitebeard. Kizaru or Marco would be able to take Ace out with little effort.




I said Kizaru vs DD+Ace, not Kizaru vs Ace. Kizaru would not be able to stomp DD+Ace.





Unicornsilovethem said:


> Seriously guys, stop this Marco wank. DD made a joke of Jozu who is at least as strong as Marco. DD solos this thread.



This is correct.


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## 3B20 (Aug 4, 2014)

Unicornsilovethem said:


> Seriously guys, stop this Marco wank. *DD made a joke of Jozu who is at least as strong as Marco*. DD solos this thread.



You're being unfair to both Marco and Jozu. 
Marco was the undisputed strongest in WB's crew. He proved himself a worthy opponent for any L3 (Logia Trio). Jozu was not "at least as strong as Marco": that goes against anything Oda has shown so far. Nonetheless, you're being unfair to him too, since your wording implies a superiority that DD has never had. Doffy caught Jozu off guard with a really hax technique whose dynamics and limits we don't know yet. We don't have any elements to say whether Jozu could have freed himself had he felt seriously threatened. But even if we admitted that he couldn't, we don't know if DD would be able to Parasite him in a 1 vs 1 fight. Jozu is a guy who has the second best strenght feat in the manga, fought Kuzan for an extended period of time just fine, stopped Mihawk's slash intended for WB. DD feats are good, but not THIS good, and not with such opponents.
To me, there's no doubt Marco is noticeably stronger than DD, and same goes for Jozu. Mid diff, high diff, I don't know: but he'll go down against both of them.

On topic: hard to say, I'd put my money on Marco but with nothing less than high diff. To make a comparison, Borsalino would need mid diff, maybe low-mid (difference built upon Logia intangibility and range).


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## Raiden34 (Aug 4, 2014)

Unicornsilovethem said:


> Seriously guys, stop this Marco wank. DD made a joke of Jozu who is at least as strong as Marco. DD solos this thread.



I doubt Jozu is versatile as Marco in battle. Sure Jozu is insanely strong and has good defense with diamond, but he was too careless against Aokiji.

On the other hand, Marco is much faster, smarter and he can even heal haki based attacks due to his phoenix ability.

By the way, Dof didn't joke with Jozu, he just stopped him. Dof did nothing more. Dof joked with Atmos 13.division commander.


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## Unicornsilovethem (Aug 4, 2014)

3B20 said:


> You're being unfair to both Marco and Jozu.
> Marco was the undisputed strongest in WB's crew.


No.



> He proved himself a worthy opponent for any L3 (Logia Trio). Jozu was not "at least as strong as Marco": that goes against anything Oda has shown so far.


What Oda has shown is Marco doing 0 damage and Joz doing more than 0 damage. They have comparable defenses; Marco's is better but Joz is virtually as good for almost all attacks. Marco can fly, but Joz can throw icebergs. Nothing in Marco's portrayal establishes him as the superior fighter.



> Doffy caught Jozu off guard


No. Just no. Do you even understand what "off guard" means? The only person who was ever caught off guard in the war is Whitebeard, when Squardo stabbed him. Every other person was constantly on guard. You are off guard when you are not expecting violence. Joz was in the middle of a fucking war zone - he was *not* off guard. Not once.



> with a really hax technique whose dynamics and limits we don't know yet. We don't have any elements to say whether Jozu could have freed himself had he felt seriously threatened.


I'm sure he preferred being used as a chair. Yup. That sounds just like something good ol' Joz would enjoy. He just loves a good forniphilia intermission. Lets him take his mind of the slaughtering of his dear comrades going on around him.



> But even if we admitted that he couldn't, we don't know if DD would be able to Parasite him in a 1 vs 1 fight. Jozu is a guy who has the second best strenght feat in the manga, fought Kuzan for an extended period of time just fine, stopped Mihawk's slash intended for WB. DD feats are good, but not THIS good, and not with such opponents.


They are that good though. As you said himself, he has the second best strength feats. And yet he could not break out of parasite.

Now I'm not saying DD would stomp Joz (or Marco) in a 1 on 1, but let's be honest here. DD clearly had the superior showing against Joz, who did at least as well as Marco in the war.


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## Dunno (Aug 4, 2014)

Doflamingo could probably beat Marco himself with extreme diff. Adding Ace makes it a high diff victory for the team.


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## trance (Aug 4, 2014)

Marco mid difficulty. No reason to think Ace can pose a threat to Marco and Doffy is inferior to Marco.



Unicornsilovethem said:


> What Oda has shown is Marco doing 0 damage and Joz doing more than 0 damage. *They have comparable defenses; Marco's is better but Joz is virtually as good for almost all attacks*. Marco can fly, but Joz can throw icebergs. Nothing in Marco's portrayal establishes him as the superior fighter.



Diamond has an extreme amount of cutting resistance but is relatively frail against blunt force damage.


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## Wayne With The Ism (Aug 4, 2014)

What? Do people seriously think DD can solo Marco? When DD has a feat that shows he can hold his own against an admiral level fighter, then he will be on EQUAL grounds to Marco. The last time i checked, he was forced to let Smoker live because Aokiji showed up. Smoker knew about him being Joker and his plans so don't tell me Smoker wasn't worth killing.  Marco shows no hesitation when against the admirals when DD walks away as soon as Aokiji froze him. Just Marco being the 2nd strongest in WB's crew should be enough a feat to beat someone like DD, who's best feat is his devil fruit ability working on Jozu.


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## 3B20 (Aug 4, 2014)

Unicornsilovethem said:


> No.



That's not an answer. 

Portrayal speaks volumes:
1-Marco was 1st division commander;
2-The Gorosei mentioned "*Marco the Phoenix* and the remnants of WB pirates" alongside the other Yonkou as the only ones capable of stopping BB's rise.
3-He was the one with Shanks in front of WB and Ace's grave. Just the two of them. 



Unicornsilovethem said:


> What Oda has shown is Marco doing 0 damage and Joz doing more than 0 damage. They have comparable defenses; Marco's is better but Joz is virtually as good for almost all attacks. Marco can fly, but Joz can throw icebergs. Nothing in Marco's portrayal establishes him as the superior fighter.




I agree that by feats Jozu was as good as him. But hey, MF has some issues with power levels portrayal (see Sengoku, Luffy, Croc, Mihawk etc.). The point is, Marco has been portrayed as the most important WB pirate. We know that in One Piece this is directly related to strenght.




Unicornsilovethem said:


> No. Just no. Do you even understand what "off guard" means? The only person who was ever caught off guard in the war is Whitebeard, when Squardo stabbed him. Every other person was constantly on guard. You are off guard when you are not expecting violence. Joz was in the middle of a fucking war zone - he was *not* off guard. Not once.



Ok, not off guard. But he was not focused on DD. He was focused on Croc. Parasite is not an attack you can avoid if you're not paying full attention.



Unicornsilovethem said:


> I'm sure he preferred being used as a chair. Yup. That sounds just like something good ol' Joz would enjoy. He just loves a good forniphilia intermission. Lets him take his mind of the slaughtering of his dear comrades going on around him.



That's just a side point. Even if you're right, doesn't mean DD could catch Jozu in a 1 vs 1. 
And hey, MF has even worse PIS than that (Kizaru shooting the key and not Luffy's head being the main example).



Unicornsilovethem said:


> They are that good though. As you said himself, he has the second best strength feats. And yet he could not break out of parasite.



I'll say it again: we don't know how it works. You can't prove that Jozu couldn't dodge Parasite, nor that he couldn't break out of it if he were risking his life.



Unicornsilovethem said:


> Now I'm not saying DD would stomp Joz (or Marco) in a 1 on 1, but let's be honest here. DD clearly had the superior showing against Joz, who did at least as well as Marco in the war.



The superior showing was heavily situational. Use Kuzan as a mean of comparison. Jozu fought him on par for some chapters. How was DD's encounter with Kuzan?
About Marco, I addressed the point above.


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## Dunno (Aug 4, 2014)

3B20 said:


> That's not an answer.
> 
> Portrayal speaks volumes:
> 1-Marco was 1st division commander;
> ...



Well, at least Doflamingo was able to walk away unscathed from his encounter with Kuzan. Jozu, not so much.


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## trance (Aug 4, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Well, at least Doflamingo was able to walk away unscathed from his encounter with Kuzan. Jozu, not so much.



Well, at least Croc was able to walk away unscathed from his encounter with Sakazuki. Whitebeard, not so much.


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## 108CaliberPhoenix (Aug 4, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Well, at least Croc was able to walk away unscathed from his encounter with Sakazuki. Whitebeard, not so much.


Akainu didn't even attempt to attack Croc


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## 3B20 (Aug 4, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Well, at least Doflamingo was able to walk away unscathed from his encounter with Kuzan. Jozu, not so much.





Stαrkiller said:


> Well, at least Croc was able to walk away unscathed from his encounter with Sakazuki. Whitebeard, not so much.



Magic of semantics...


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## Lord Stark (Aug 4, 2014)

Wow, so many people in this thread are blowing on Jozu's Diamondo Cock.  Doflamingo is his superior.  That being said Ace won't be able to do much to Marco, and a couple of kicks will put him down.  Doffy doesn't have the feats to defeat Marco solo.


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## 3B20 (Aug 4, 2014)

Lord Stark said:


> Wow, so many people in this thread are blowing on Jozu's Diamondo Cock.  Doflamingo is his superior.  That being said Ace won't be able to do much to Marco, and a couple of kicks will put him down.  Doffy doesn't have the feats to defeat Marco solo.



So, if I get it straight...
Marco>DD>Jozu>Ace. Which implies that Marco>>Jozu. What diff do you think Jozu gives Marco?


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## Dunno (Aug 4, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Well, at least Croc was able to walk away unscathed from his encounter with Sakazuki. Whitebeard, not so much.



And it would have been damn impressive had Crocodile tanked the same stuff Whitebeard did.


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## Lord Stark (Aug 4, 2014)

3B20 said:


> So, if I get it straight...
> Marco>DD>Jozu>Ace. Which implies that Marco>>Jozu. What diff do you think Jozu gives Marco?



No that's not how that works.  

Top Tier: 
Marco (90)
Fujitora (90)

High Tier:
Doflamingo (88)
Jozu (85)

Marco puts down Jozu with high difficulty.


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## 3B20 (Aug 4, 2014)

Lord Stark said:


> No that's not how that works.
> 
> Top Tier:
> Marco (90)
> ...



I agree with the bolded. My problem is that I'd invert Jozu and DD's points. And lower DD's to 75-80.

DD's going down this arc. Be it Luffy alone or a Luffy/Law joint effort, he's going down. Do you think Luffy could defeat Marco and Fujitora? Or that Luffy and Law together could? Because that's what you're implying.


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## 108CaliberPhoenix (Aug 4, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Jozu wasn't exactly paying attention to Doflamingo, now was he? []
> 
> The "!!?" seems to denote him being genuinely surprised, IMO at least.


So instead of !!? Jozu should just be completely unfazed by getting caught do you know how awkward 
that would look. Of course he was surprised he didn't expect that to happen but he was in the midst of
battle and a major war so he should be prepared for anything.

I'm now noticing the excuse for Jozu looking bad is that he is always caught off guard , aokiji, parasite


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## trance (Aug 4, 2014)

Dunno said:


> And it would have been damn impressive had Crocodile tanked the same stuff Whitebeard did.



And it would have been damn impressive had Doffy fought an extended battle with Kuzan like Jozu did.


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## Dunno (Aug 4, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> And it would have been damn impressive had Doffy fought an extended battle with Kuzan like Jozu did.



Since when did a couple of minutes or so become an extended battle? The truth of the matter is that both of them got their entire body frozen by Aokiji while not diverting their full attention to fighting him, and only one of them managed to break out of the ice. Say what you will, but the similarity of those events clearly indicate Doflamingo's superiority. Add in the fact that he was able to totally incapacitate Jozu with a frontal attack, and the picture becomes clear.


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## trance (Aug 4, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Since when did a couple of minutes or so become an extended battle?



A scuffle, skirmish, clash, etc. 



> The truth of the matter is that both of them got their entire body frozen by Aokiji while not diverting their full attention to fighting him, and only one of them managed to break out of the ice.



The move Kuzan used on Jozu was "Ice Time", one of his finishers.



> Say what you will, but the similarity of those events clearly indicate Doflamingo's superiority



One had actual lethal intent behind it. The other was totally casual. Guess which one Doffy's was? 



> Add in the fact that he was able to totally incapacitate Jozu even though Doflamingo wasn't his intended target



I agree.



> and the picture becomes clear.



That Jozu is superior. Yes, I know.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 4, 2014)

Onigumo managed to restrain Marco with his cuffs. Marco has shown to be a careless fighter because of his regen. 

Doflamingo would trap him with his Parasite while Ace is getting pummeled, and then Ace and Mingo would finish marco off eventually with enkais and overheats.


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## 3B20 (Aug 4, 2014)

IijiNijiSanji said:


> Onigumo managed to restrain Marco with his cuffs. Marco has shown to be a careless fighter because of his regen.
> 
> Doflamingo would trap him with his Parasite while Ace is getting pummeled, and then Ace and Mingo would finish marco off eventually with enkais and overheats.



He hasn't shown any carelessness. He was just rushing in to help WB, who was facing Akainu and had just had a heart attack. In this fight there would be no such external factors.


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## Dunno (Aug 4, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> A scuffle, skirmish, clash, etc.
> 
> The move Kuzan used on Jozu was "Ice Time", one of his finishers.
> 
> ...



I agree that it was a scuffle, skirmish or clash. 

As far as I recall, Aokiji used a no-name attack to take out Jozu? Please show me a scan if I'm wrong. 

It's easy to claim that the attack which hit your favourite character was strong than the one which hit the other guy, but that doesn't make it true. Both attacks were from a meter or two away while not showing any hint of Aokiji exerting himself, no name-calling, no sweat-pearls, nothing like that. In both cases Aokiji was simply finishing off a somewhat distracted opponent. 

Do you think Doflamingo incapacitating Jozu and sitting on him indicates that Jozu is stronger? How on earth did you come to that conclusion?


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## 108CaliberPhoenix (Aug 4, 2014)

Dunno said:


> I agree that it was a scuffle, skirmish or clash.
> 
> As far as I recall, Aokiji used a no-name attack to take out Jozu? Please show me a scan if I'm wrong.
> 
> ...



It was a no name attack but most will claim it was a much stronger move regardless


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## trance (Aug 4, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Do you think Doflamingo incapacitating Jozu and sitting on him indicates that Jozu is stronger? How on earth did you come to that conclusion?



Because hax really indicates one is the more superior combatant, amirite? 

I guess that means Caesar > Smoker and the like.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 4, 2014)

3B20 said:


> He hasn't shown any carelessness. He was just rushing in to help WB, who was facing Akainu and had just had a heart attack. In this fight there would be no such external factors.



No, he is careless. After defending WB from YKNM, he flew right towards Kizaru. Kizaru then used another YKNM which was aimed at marco, but marco made no attempt to dodge it.


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## 3B20 (Aug 4, 2014)

IijiNijiSanji said:


> No, he is careless. After defending WB from YKNM, he flew right towards Kizaru. Kizaru then used another YKNM which was aimed at marco, but marco made no attempt to dodge it.



That's a completely different situation. He was being confident, not careless. He knew he would have received no damage by Kizaru's attack, since he was in Phoenix form: and that's just what happened, proving that confidence was fully justified. 
To me, being a careless fighter means being uncapable of correctly evaluating the risks of every move/situation during a fight. When Marco was caught by Kizaru and Onigumo, he was not fighting; he was just trying to reach his captain in order to help him against a direct threat like Akainu. There was a huge emotional component too; again, all factors that would be absent in this hypothetical fight.


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## Krippy (Aug 4, 2014)

Amol said:


> Pretty sure Kizaru vs DD and Ace would have resulted in 'stomp' in Kizaru's favour.


Nah.


> After all Ace is 'fodder'. He would get one shotted.


Nope.


> DD is also 'fodder' to people like WB, Admirals.But of course Marco is not one of C3.


I disagree. 


> Those who had said high diff for Marco, will say low diff in Kizaru or any other admiral. I am sure of it.


Wankers gonna wank.

The notion of DD or any of the WB commanders getting low diffed or stomped by an admiral is laughable. 

A stomp is Kizaru vs preskip novas. That aint happening to an elite on the ship of a (former) Yonko.


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## Dunno (Aug 4, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Because hax really indicates one is the more superior combatant, amirite?
> 
> I guess that means Caesar > Smoker and the like.



It does to some degree. Had Caesar not been defeated so easily by Luffy afterwards, the feat would have been considered legitimate. Just like how Law's mountain-cutting is considered a good feat, even though he used his "hax" fruit to do it.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 4, 2014)

3B20 said:


> That's a completely different situation. He was being confident, not careless. He knew he would have received no damage by Kizaru's attack, since he was in Phoenix form: and that's just what happened, proving that confidence was fully justified.
> To me, being a careless fighter means being uncapable of correctly evaluating the risks of every move/situation during a fight. When Marco was caught by Kizaru and Onigumo, he was not fighting; he was just trying to reach his captain in order to help him against a direct threat like Akainu. There was a huge emotional component too; again, all factors that would be absent in this hypothetical fight.



He has a limit on his regen and he was going up against the marines. He could've dodged to reserve his health. If he was not careless he would've dodged and gone behind kizaru to attack, since Kizaru hasn't shown maneuverability in mid air to avoid him. 

Also, he still got caught. Even luffy was doing a better job avoiding blunt hits than him even when he was in a hurry. If he was really emotional, he would've kicked onigumo away the second he touched him. Or atleast used his flight power instead of running.


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## 3B20 (Aug 4, 2014)

IijiNijiSanji said:


> He has a limit on his regen and he was going up against the marines. He could've dodged to reserve his health. If he was not careless he would've dodged and gone behind kizaru to attack, since Kizaru hasn't shown maneuverability in mid air to avoid him.



We don't know the extent of Marco's regen limits. He obviously judged it worth to spend some stamina in order to stop Kizaru ASAP. And good luck dodging YNM. 



IijiNijiSanji said:


> Also, he still got caught. Even luffy was doing a better job avoiding blunt hits than him even when he was in a hurry. If he was really emotional, he would've kicked onigumo away the second he touched him. Or atleast used his flight power instead of running.



Luffy's plot armour in MF was simply ridiculous. As were PIS and CIS. Onigumo was in his mixed Zoan form, which allowed him to grab Marco with several "hands" and instantly handcuff him. And Marco by then had already been injured by Kizaru with two lasers at the back (here a blatant case of PIS: why not to the head?). 
Really, everything can be explained without underplaying Marco's abilities and value as a fighter.


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## Wayne With The Ism (Aug 4, 2014)

IijiNijiSanji said:


> No, he is careless. After defending WB from YKNM, he flew right towards Kizaru. Kizaru then used another YKNM which was aimed at marco, but marco made no attempt to dodge it.



Doflamingo is careless himself, if you ask me.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 5, 2014)

3B20 said:


> We don't know the extent of Marco's regen limits. He obviously judged it worth to spend some stamina in order to stop Kizaru ASAP. And good luck dodging YNM.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Marco managed to absorb almost all of YKNM. Which means it's basically a barrage focused in a tunnel.  He should have no problem dodging it.

Also, he charged straight for the platform, not considering the fact that Garp and sengoku were there. What was he expecting? He didn't really have a plan. He was careless.


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## Slenderman (Aug 5, 2014)

The Bloody Nine said:


> Oda said there is a limit to Marcos regen. If dofla cuts off his head or Ace burns out his heart i doubt he will regen it.



Kizaru put holes all oer marco's body and he still didn't die form it. Areas like, his lungs, parts of his chest, a portion of his head etc, so I don't think that's the case here. 

At OP: Marco wins extreme difficulty.


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## Raiden34 (Aug 5, 2014)

IijiNijiSanji said:


> Onigumo managed to restrain Marco with his cuffs. Marco has shown to be a careless fighter because of his regen.
> 
> Doflamingo would trap him with his Parasite while Ace is getting pummeled, and then Ace and Mingo would finish marco off eventually with enkais and overheats.



Wrong. Onigumo manage to restrain Marco while Kizaru was attacking him from behind. It was 2 v 1.



Dunno said:


> Since when did a couple of minutes or so become an extended battle? The truth of the matter is that both of them got their entire body frozen by Aokiji while not diverting their full attention to fighting him, and only one of them managed to break out of the ice. Say what you will, but the similarity of those events clearly indicate Doflamingo's superiority. Add in the fact that he was able to totally incapacitate Jozu with a frontal attack, and the picture becomes clear.



Doflamingo can't match with Aokiji. While Jozu can, he even bleeded Aokiji. Aok needed to an opening against Jozu while he probably beats Dof without needing an opening.



Dunno said:


> Well, at least Doflamingo was able to walk away unscathed from his encounter with Kuzan. Jozu, not so much.



Because DD didn't even fight with Aokiji. But Jozu did.


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