# Saber runs a Bleach Gauntlet



## AliceKumo (Feb 5, 2015)

FSN Saber (use either Kiri or Rin stats) with Avalon goes up against Bleach in a gauntlet style match. Goes from weakest to strongest. No info on either side and Saber fights seriously with the intention to win.

Arena is Avalon and the combatants starts 15 meters apart. 


Does she clear and if not how far does she get?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Feb 5, 2015)

Stops at around Gremmy/Kenpachi level or so I'd assume, maybe a bit lower but I don't know all of Bleach (just the recent shit and up to when the arrancar start to come in and bits about that stuff in the middle)


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## Iwandesu (Feb 5, 2015)

saber combat speed is somewhat below anyone worthy, jackshit (mach 15 x forever29), she does count with superior reactions (45 iirc)
as for dc she strikes around small city level (as she could change blows with berserk, that efforteless blocked an uncharged excalibur, even while having a shit master like shirou and all)
she also has her excalibur that is high end city level from parting a cloud and vaporizing fuyuki city river
she should clear anyone up to the likes of gremmy, kenny and current ichigo (maybe byakuya and renji if you scalle them from kenny's  blitzing a meteor mach 60 feat)


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## BreakFlame (Feb 5, 2015)

She has Avalon, which is basically Nasuverses version of an invincibility power-up. She literally walks through a full power Ea attack. Does Bleach have anything that can work on it?


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## Iwandesu (Feb 5, 2015)

BreakFlame said:


> She has Avalon, which is basically Nasuverses version of an invincibility power-up. She literally walks through a full power Ea attack. Does Bleach have anything that can work on it?


rin/ kiritsugu saber has avalon ?


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## AliceKumo (Feb 5, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> rin/ kiritsugu saber has avalon ?



I did state that she has it right up there, first line of the post.


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## BreakFlame (Feb 5, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> rin/ kiritsugu saber has avalon ?



OP said "with Avalon" so I figured we're supposed to factor it in. Considering it made Shirou!Saber functionally invincible in-universe, I would assume it would need something at least two levels higher than Ea on full for us to consider it surpassed.

On another note, It also invalidates hax, at least at the level of Nasuverses True magic.


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## Sablés (Feb 5, 2015)

Assuming Saber is bloodlusted, everyone up to Gremme gets an Excalibur to the face.

From there, nothing much she can do besides hide behind Avalon and that won't last forever.


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## BreakFlame (Feb 5, 2015)

What's the durability on people above Gremmy? I'm assuming island level or so?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Feb 5, 2015)

BreakFlame said:


> What's the durability on people above Gremmy? I'm assuming island level or so?



island+, around low triple digit gigatons


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## BreakFlame (Feb 5, 2015)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> island+, around low triple digit gigatons



Yeeeep, Saber gets squashed as soon as Avalon goes down.


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## Crimson King (Feb 5, 2015)

when did this gigation thing happen?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 5, 2015)

Kenpachi blowing up Gremmy's Meteor or some shit IIRC


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## Crimson King (Feb 5, 2015)

He fragmented the meteor, but still left enough chunks for them to destroy buildings below. Not sure that's triple gigaton

And he's the only one that has that DC feat. And he still got hurt by much weaker attacks, so mostly likely they're glass cannons now.

Which means excaliblast can still kill them.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Feb 5, 2015)

Crimson King said:


> He fragmented the meteor, but still left enough chunks for them to destroy buildings below. Not sure that's triple gigaton
> 
> And he's the only one that has that DC feat. And he still got hurt by much weaker attacks, so mostly likely they're glass cannons now.
> 
> Which means excaliblast can still kill them.



The logic was that it was a physical feat so he has to have similar durability. Saying that his durability is shit after being gangbanged after a mid-high diff battle isn't exactly the best argument against that. Besides we take the best feats and use them as stats anyway. I'm not really a Bleach supporter so I'll leave it at that.


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## Byrd (Feb 5, 2015)

> The logic was that it was a physical feat so he has to have similar durability



Noo we should never use this reasoning...


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## MusubiKazesaru (Feb 5, 2015)

Byrd said:


> Noo we should never use this reasoning...



That's what I heard at least, the actual reasoning might be different.


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## Crimson King (Feb 5, 2015)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> The logic was that it was a physical feat so he has to have similar durability. Saying that his durability is shit after being gangbanged after a mid-high diff battle isn't exactly the best argument against that. Besides we take the best feats and use them as stats anyway. I'm not really a Bleach supporter so I'll leave it at that.



So what if it's a physical feat? he's still shown multiple times to be hurt by much weaker attacks. Hell, that explosion and space attack later on badly wounds him.


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## ShadowReaper (Feb 5, 2015)

Stops at Kenpachi.


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## Iwandesu (Feb 5, 2015)

Crimson King said:


> So what if it's a physical feat? he's still shown multiple times to be hurt by much weaker attacks. Hell, that explosion and space attack later on badly wounds him.


because 3rd newtons law.
gremmy space attack and explosion were likely stronger than the meteor exactly because they hurt kenny...
fooderites were only hurting a weakened,in base and crippled kenny. you can't say his health shape shikai is weaker because of such random low showing
so yeah, there is nothing contradicting his durability


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## Regicide (Feb 5, 2015)

Crimson King said:


> He fragmented the meteor, but still left enough chunks for them to destroy buildings below. Not sure that's triple gigaton


It's triple digit gigatons, or at least within that general range. The thing was five kilometers wide and moving at fast enough speeds to ablate.

Considering shit was on course to level Seireitei and the fragments after he shattered it just destroyed a bunch of buildings, Kenny matched the majority of its energy when he blew it up.


Crimson King said:


> And he's the only one that has that DC feat.


This is what powerscaling is for.


Crimson King said:


> So what if it's a physical feat?


If you swing your arm at something with greater energy than what you yourself can take, you're going to injure yourself.

If a character doesn't when exerting energy through physical means, that's enough to say that they're about as durable as what they can dish out.


Crimson King said:


> Hell, that explosion and space attack later on badly wounds him.


Yeah, if the explosion significantly hurt him? Just means that it was packing more power than the meteor.

Considering Gremmy had multiple clones at the time and his power increases linearly, that's not really outlandish.


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## Regicide (Feb 5, 2015)

I mean, it's not like stronger characters than Kenny blow each other to bits when they take attacks from each other.


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## Crimson King (Feb 5, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> because 3rd newtons law.
> gremmy space attack and explosion were likely stronger than the meteor exactly because they hurt kenny...
> fooderites were only hurting a weakened,in base and crippled kenny. you can't say his health shape shikai is weaker because of such random low showing
> so yeah, there is nothing contradicting his durability



Except no. The space attack was a simple vacuum. The explosion was absolutely pathetic even compared to earlier attacks.

Doesn't matter what you say. Physical attack power doesn't equal durability.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 5, 2015)

The problem with that is you're throwing physics completely out the window which makes the entire quantification system fall apart.


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## Regicide (Feb 5, 2015)

Crimson King said:


> The space attack was a simple vacuum.


I don't really see this differs from any other case in fiction where authors inflate the power of real life phenomena.

Like gravity and heat and whatnot.


Crimson King said:


> The explosion was absolutely pathetic even compared to earlier attacks.


Only thing you could judge it off of besides Kenny's own durability is.. AoE. As far as I'm aware, that doesn't fly as an argument against attacks. 


Crimson King said:


> Physical attack power doesn't equal durability.


If you don't hurt yourself throwing around that attack power, it kind of does.


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## LazyWaka (Feb 6, 2015)

Technically speaking, that would kinda be the durability of his sword, not his own durability since it is what is hitting the meteor.

Swing a metal bat at a rock really hard and have nothing happen to the swinger. Have someone swing a metal bat at you with the same amount of force and bones will likely be broken.


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## Hamaru (Feb 6, 2015)

Crimson King said:


> So what if it's a physical feat? he's still shown multiple times to be hurt by much weaker attacks. Hell,* that explosion and space attack later on badly wounds him.*



1) You are assuming that the energy attack Gremmy used was weaker when it could have been as strong or stronger, just concentrated. 

2) Both of the attacks you are talking about came after Kenpachi went head up with the meteor, so he could have been physically drained after the feat but just kept a strong face.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 6, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> Technically speaking, that would kinda be the durability of his sword, not his own durability since it is what is hitting the meteor.
> 
> Swing a metal bat at a rock really hard and have nothing happen to the swinger. Have someone swing a metal bat at you with the same amount of force and bones will likely be broken.


But the sword is part of him.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 6, 2015)

the main reason that Kenpachi has more claim to newtons Third law imo is that the Rock was coming towards him and not the other way around.

Like fair enough it's a bit retarded to give someone city level durability because they punched a city wide crater in the ground.

But if there's a fuck huge asteroid flying towards you it makes sense to get durability from shattering it physically.

or at least that's how I see it.


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## Darth Niggatron (Feb 6, 2015)

Nope. Punching a city level crater would give you city level dura.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 6, 2015)

No it wouldn't.


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## Regicide (Feb 6, 2015)

Wait, what?

Why the fuck wouldn't it?


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## Kurou (Feb 6, 2015)

They all kill themselves so Saber doesn't have to get her sword dirty


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## BreakFlame (Feb 6, 2015)

Lucia said:


> They all kill themselves so Saber doesn't have to get her sword dirty



Apparently, from the direction this is going. By the end of it, all of bleach will be huge glass cannons that kill themselves after on strike.


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## shade0180 (Feb 6, 2015)

> Wait, what?
> 
> Why the fuck wouldn't it?



because the backlash is not as strong as the initial force that was exerted to the direction it is suppose to move.... or something like that.... unless you have 2 forces "moving" toward each other or something.... 

something about energy lost and some shit and the like....

someone could probably explain it better... but in theory that's how it works..


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## Iwandesu (Feb 6, 2015)

Nightbringer said:


> No it wouldn't.


Because... reasons 
10/10 reply, right here.


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## Regicide (Feb 6, 2015)

shade0180 said:


> someone could probably explain it better... but in theory that's how it works..


As far I know, that's not.


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## Crimson King (Feb 6, 2015)

But Kenpachi's sword isn't part of him though.

From what I remember of clorox, their swords are pretty much living beings separate from their user. If anything, it's his sword that strong as fuck.


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## Regicide (Feb 6, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> Swing a metal bat at a rock really hard and have nothing happen to the swinger. Have someone swing a metal bat at you with the same amount of force and bones will likely be broken.


Not really certain that analogy holds up at the scale we're talking about here. 


Crimson King said:


> From what I remember of clorox, their swords are pretty much living beings separate from their user. If anything, it's his sword that strong as fuck.


It's a package deal, the swords come from and are part of their souls, like another personality.

They're not familiars or anything.


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## Crimson King (Feb 6, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Not really certain that analogy holds up at the scale we're talking about here.
> It's a package deal, the swords come from and are part of their souls, like another personality.
> 
> They're not familiars or anything.



Does he take damage when his sword does? If not, it'll still be his sword doing most of the work.


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## Regicide (Feb 6, 2015)

Crimson King said:


> Does he take damage when his sword does? If not, it'll still be his sword doing most of the work.


Don't particularly follow.

The energy comes from the same source in the end. The physical sword doesn't have a pool of reishi/reiryoku/reiatsu or whatever the fuck that it draws from, he has to be the one swinging it with that much power.


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## zTundra (Feb 6, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Don't particularly follow.
> 
> The energy comes from the same source in the end. The physical sword doesn't have a pool of reishi/reiryoku/reiatsu or whatever the fuck that it draws from, he has to be the one swinging it with that much power.



Stop. Just stop, please. You went from "minimally logical reasons" to "it just works".

If you hit a wall if a baseball bat, you won't feel anything. Now punch a wall and you'll break your hand. 

That's how weapons work.


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## Crimson King (Feb 6, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Don't particularly follow.
> 
> The energy comes from the same source in the end. The physical sword doesn't have a pool of reishi/reiryoku/reiatsu or whatever the fuck that it draws from, he has to be the one swinging it with that much power.



From what I understand, it's his sword that gets stronger and it's his sword that's hitting the meteor. Kenpachi himself did not touch it. So basically, it's the sword doing the damage and taking whatever damage the meteor is doing.


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## Sherlōck (Feb 6, 2015)

God there are some top level bullshit flying here.


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## AliceKumo (Feb 6, 2015)

Hey a Nasuverse thread being derailed not because of the Nasuverse. Amazing.

On the other hand, wasn't Saber's cloud splitting thing considered island level?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Feb 6, 2015)

zTundra said:


> Stop. Just stop, please. You went from "minimally logical reasons" to "it just works".
> 
> *If you hit a wall if a baseball bat, you won't feel anything. Now punch a wall and you'll break your hand. *
> 
> That's how weapons work.



It's not the same as punching it, but you've obviously never hit a wall with a bat. That shit kind of hurts.


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## Sablés (Feb 6, 2015)

Shinigami power their swords, that's why whenever one of them loses/dies, their Bankai returns to normal. 

That said, the swords still pack a bigger punch than the wielders but you can barely think of 2 examples where a Shikai can casually kill the user with brute force (which  is indirectly the issue here), Yama had the strongest Zan and even that needed prep to be able to do him in. They are only glass canons in Bankai where their fighting ability is extrapolated compared to their base forms but Shikai is only a fraction of that so it hardly counts. Sort of why it can also be repaired easily if broken while Bankai can't.


Anyway, this hardly matters. Ken gets the scaling because Gremme tried replicating his sword's power but remarked his body couldn't contain the energy like Kenpachi's and imploded.  That scene was pretty much put in there to drive the point home that the power is Zaraki's.


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## Sygurgh (Feb 6, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Anyway, this hardly matters. Ken gets the scaling because Gremme tried replicating his sword's power but remarked his body couldn't contain the energy like Kenpachi's and imploded.  That scene was pretty much put in there to drive the point home that the power is Zaraki's.



If in your opinion we should discard Zaraki's scaling from the meteor, how can you justify scaling from the energy itself?

Saber having enough energy to use Excalibur doesn't give her the ability to tank Excalibur.


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## Sherlōck (Feb 6, 2015)

zTundra said:


> If you hit a wall if a baseball bat, you won't feel anything.


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## AgentAAA (Feb 6, 2015)

zTundra said:


> Stop. Just stop, please. You went from "minimally logical reasons" to "it just works".
> 
> If you hit a wall if a baseball bat, you won't feel anything. Now punch a wall and you'll break your hand.
> 
> That's how weapons work.



Have you never hit a wall with a baseball bat?
Because it sounds like you haven't
Swing a baseball bat full power at a metal or granite wall and you'll be amazed how much the recoil fucks up your hands.


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## Tapion (Feb 6, 2015)

If your hands are fused to an invincible bat and you try to hit an oncoming train moving at whatever speed the fastest train goes as hard as you can, what happens to your arms?


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## Byrd (Feb 6, 2015)

End of the day we should not be auto-equalizing physical DC and Durability


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## Regicide (Feb 6, 2015)

zTundra said:


> If you hit a wall if a baseball bat, you won't feel anything.


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## Iwandesu (Feb 6, 2015)

Byrd said:


> End of the day we should not be auto-equalizing physical DC and Durability



i mean seriously, do you guys even have an argument against it ? 
this is like the second time already


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 6, 2015)

It's fiction. It spits in the face of physics. Let's stop using physics entirely. Just think of all the amazing drama guys!


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## zTundra (Feb 6, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> Have you never hit a wall with a baseball bat?
> Because it sounds like you haven't
> Swing a baseball bat full power at a metal or granite wall and you'll be amazed how much the recoil fucks up your hands.



Now you're the second person who finds that out. Not like it changes anything.

The recoil is simply a matter of your swing lacking the energy necessary to break the wall. The energy from the swing comes back at you causing the recoil. That might hurt you hand a little, but it won't really damage you. 

Now, in the case you punch it, your hand isn't strong enough to resist the impact and it breaks, even though the energy in a punch is less than the energy produced in swinging the bat.


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## Byrd (Feb 6, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> i mean seriously, do you guys even have an argument against it ?
> this is like the second time already



because we would be going in such topics as Elasticity, Brittleness and all that shit I think


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 6, 2015)

Byrd pls, that is never going to happen.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Feb 6, 2015)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Byrd pls, that is never going to happen.



I'm gonna screencap this so the day that does happen

It'd be expected


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## Iwandesu (Feb 6, 2015)

Byrd said:


> because we would be going in such topics as Elasticity, Brittleness and all that shit I think


wot ?
i kinda doubt it
because i'm here for more than a year already, with everyone using striking strength=minimun durability afaic and never heard about any of those 2 vs debate terms you are talking about


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## MusubiKazesaru (Feb 6, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> wot ?
> i kinda doubt it
> because i'm here for more than a year already, with everyone using striking strength=minimun durability afaic and never heard about any of those 2 vs debate terms you are talking about



It's what happens when it's one verse that most like here is against one most dislike. It's the same way more popular verses tend to get more calcs. People start to argue shit that they might not have even cared about/blindly accepted before.


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## Byrd (Feb 6, 2015)

> wot ?
> i kinda doubt it
> because i'm here for more than a year already, with everyone using striking strength=*minimun durability* afaic and never heard about any of those 2 vs debate terms you are talking about



Thats the thing we often don't use the min Durability in matches... we more so use the max and states that characters can usually no sell lesser attacks..

I have asked this before numerous times tho in the past


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## Iwandesu (Feb 6, 2015)

> It's what happens when it's one verse that most like here is against one most dislike. It's the same way more popular verses tend to get more calcs. People start to argue shit that they might not have even cared about/blindly accepted before.


the good old buuthurt 
i mean i'm all for it, is just that there is no decent argument made against it yet.
it will be funny if bleach ends up being the one that broke both newton 3rd law and AZ,tho 


> Thats the thing we often don't use the min Durability in matches... we more so use the max and states that characters can usually no sell lesser attacks..


this.. is actually an interesting point of view.
it doesn't invalidate newtons third law by any means, but it is still truth that we usually have other shit than newton's 3rd law in those situations
which is the case with kenny, mind you
would like to now what those terms you mentioned stand for,tho


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## Regicide (Feb 6, 2015)

Byrd said:


> because we would be going in such topics as Elasticity, Brittleness and all that shit I think


Well, like I said, does this really matter at the scale we're talking about here? 

Kind of like how certain materials react to heat differently than they would an equivalent amount of kinetic energy or what have you, but we ignore that and sort of just treat all forms of energy as being equal once we start talking biggatons.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Feb 6, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> Technically speaking, that would kinda be the durability of his sword, not his own durability since it is what is hitting the meteor.
> 
> Swing a metal bat at a rock really hard and have nothing happen to the swinger. Have someone swing a metal bat at you with the same amount of force and bones will likely be broken.


That's not how it works, waka.
You could throw bone crushing punches too, you know?, without breaking your arms in the process.



zTundra said:


> Stop. Just stop, please. You went from "minimally logical reasons" to "it just works".
> 
> If you hit a wall if a baseball bat, you won't feel anything. Now punch a wall and you'll break your hand.
> 
> That's how weapons work.


That's wrong.
It's all because of how efficient you're transferring energy to something.
It also depends on the material you're fucking with and where you hit it, and which part of your weapon you hit it.

When you hit something bouncy, like a ball, energy is lost upon contact via heat, sound, vibration, and the fact that the objects are both going to be bent and compressed.
Now if you hit something hard, less energy is lost upon decompression and shit.
Ofc, you can do an almost perfect transfer by hitting it in the sweet spot of the bat leading to minimal vibration.
Still, some energy is going to make a recoil just not as strong.

Although imo, when we're talking about a huge amount of energy, it hardly matters.





But this is the obd and we don't like complicated shit, so....



zTundra said:


> Now you're the second person who finds that out. Not like it changes anything.
> 
> The recoil is simply a matter of your swing lacking the energy necessary to break the wall. The energy from the swing comes back at you causing the recoil. That might hurt you hand a little, but it won't really damage you.
> 
> Now, in the case you punch it, your hand isn't strong enough to resist the impact and it breaks, even though the energy in a punch is less than the energy produced in swinging the bat.


.....


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## Sherlōck (Feb 6, 2015)

Zenith spreading that knowledge.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Feb 6, 2015)

.            .



Granted, it's been like three years since i've taken my mechanics course.


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## Sherlōck (Feb 7, 2015)

You need to retake it.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 7, 2015)

Topic, people


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 7, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> Because... reasons
> 10/10 reply, right here.





Regicide said:


> Wait, what?
> 
> Why the fuck wouldn't it?



burden of proof

You have to prove that by punching the ground a character is also absorbing the same energy in reverse.

Fiction =/= IRL

Naruto can lift giant rhino's over his head without sinking into the ground, the third law clearly is not in effect, there are similar feats in most shounen.


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## Sherlōck (Feb 7, 2015)

UD is a party pooper.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 7, 2015)

Go spam your convo


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## Zeno (Feb 7, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Assuming Saber is bloodlusted, everyone up to Gremme gets an Excalibur to the face.
> 
> From there, nothing much she can do besides hide behind Avalon and that won't last forever.



can you give me some sort of ball park figure of where gremme lies in bleh now?


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## Iwandesu (Feb 7, 2015)

Nightbringer said:


> burden of proof
> 
> You have to prove that by punching the ground a character is also absorbing the same energy in reverse.
> 
> ...


and yet we have situations like kn4 naruto bijjudama weigth creating a crater.
also fiction has super anchoring like this all the time, it is a matter author not knowning what he is writing
We use physical rules as standard assumptions as far as they don't contradict the feat.
hell, by this logic you invalidate every vaporization calc because you can't prove it is not just a magic fictional pulverization.
or, worse, FTL is not possible neither is any mach feat that doesn't generates sonic booms.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Feb 7, 2015)

Wot in the fuck is magical fictional fragmentation?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 7, 2015)

I

what?

Every single sentence there is a non-sequitur or defeats itself.

That single panel proves nothing because it's never explained what's going on, even if it did mean what you're suggesting it does, which again you cannot prove, it doesn't somehow outweigh the metric ton of evidence to the contrary.

The very fact that super anchoring exists defeats this entire argument, if you're prepared to handwave one half of the third law why does the other half get to stick around for arbitrary reasons?

No we don't, we use physical rules as standard assumptions because otherwise everything falls apart, but we don't take it very far. Everything is trope, Super anchoring, the fact that things don't catch fire travelling at hundreds of km/s, etc. We choose to ignore these things but in doing so we use only the most basic of physics principles to guide us. Newtons third law is exactly the kind of thing that we just straight up disregard.

There are so many things wrong in this pulverisation sentence that I actually do not know where to begin. It's like the ultimate straw man, "oh, you're saying that newtons third law probably shouldn't be applied? Well by that logic we can't apply anything and it's all magic". You're an idiot, stop posting any time

This is just more of the above, completely misunderstanding my actual argument in an attempt to grandstand and detract from the legitimate problems in your approach and the lack of any real solutions you've offered.

Come up with an actual argument pls.


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## Iwandesu (Feb 7, 2015)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Wot in the fuck is magical fictional fragmentation?


actually i meant vaporization.
pretty sure i've heard arguments made against it in blogs saying it was just author portrayal of a fictional kind of pulverization or some shit.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 7, 2015)

I am perfectly willing to hand wave the exact same physics I'm advocating for in the exact same scene for the exact same motion, for no real reason.

^your argument.


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## TehChron (Feb 7, 2015)

the fuck is all this bullshit talk about the force Kenpachi exerts by swinging with brute force?

Gremmy's meteor was broken up because Kenpachi's shikai is literally described as "cuts everything", Newton's has got jack shit to do with it.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Feb 7, 2015)

Terra Joseph said:


> In other words, Kenpachi destroys her or not?



He does, some people just don't like it


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 7, 2015)

TehChron said:


> the fuck is all this bullshit talk about the force Kenpachi exerts by swinging with brute force?
> 
> Gremmy's meteor was broken up because Kenpachi's shikai is literally described as "cuts everything", Newton's has got jack shit to do with it.



what does that mean?

Afaik Kenpachi just has a hilariously powerful blade with no extra effects.


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## stingeucliffe (Feb 7, 2015)

I actually think she gets past the Sternritter Elite, then loses to the ones stronger than them.


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## shade0180 (Feb 7, 2015)

> Gremmy's meteor was broken up because Kenpachi's shikai is literally described as "cuts everything", Newton's has got jack shit to do with it.



If this is true. Then, You can't scale this feat to anyone's durability...


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 7, 2015)

I dunno where Teh is pulling that from.

There's like a single line of Hyperbole where Kenpachi says his blade can cut through anything...

but that's not to be taken seriously for what should be obvious reasons.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 7, 2015)

He did cut through the portal


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 7, 2015)

space time cuts

time for a kamen rider gauntlet


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## TehChron (Feb 7, 2015)

Nightbringer said:


> what does that mean?
> 
> Afaik Kenpachi just has a hilariously powerful blade with no extra effects.



That makes no sense

Shikais literally always have some kind of gimmick or particular ability to them.

A quote from the wiki while I hunt down the chapter



> *Shikai Special Ability*: In its fully released state, Nozarashi possesses tremendous attack power, easily destroying a huge meteorite with a single attack.[175][176] _*Its cutting power is also greatly enhanced*_, allowing Kenpachi to effortlessly cut through the bodies of his opponents and _*even through space itself*_.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 7, 2015)

Kenpachi's "special ability" is having a stupidly strong blade


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## TehChron (Feb 7, 2015)

Huh, it turns out the only actual line is Kenpachi's statement that there's "Nothing he can't cut" after all.

If you want to make an issue of it, Dartg, I could tap into the same line of reasoning that established the stripper loli magic god as Universal, but frankly I'd rather not.

Either way, this is an argument you wouldn't win.


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## shade0180 (Feb 7, 2015)

So space cutting ability???

No, Durability for them, Also with this the speed scaling is questionable now. 

Unless he did it at point blank range. because space cut ignores space.


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## Regicide (Feb 7, 2015)

That's not really true, some of them just change shape.

Unless turning into a giant flail is considered an ability now.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 7, 2015)

Ikkaku and Hisagi have really gimmicky zanpakuto's


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## AgentAAA (Feb 7, 2015)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Ikkaku and Hisagi have really gimmicky zanpakuto's



true, but have you seen Omaeda's? thing doesn't do shit.


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## TehChron (Feb 7, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> true, but have you seen Omaeda's? thing doesn't do shit.



It's a fucking chain and ball with spikes.

_That's the gimmick_


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 7, 2015)

Hey don't try to out sarcasm my sarcasm.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 7, 2015)

TehChron said:


> Huh, it turns out the only actual line is Kenpachi's statement that there's "Nothing he can't cut" after all.
> 
> If you want to make an issue of it, Dartg, I could tap into the same line of reasoning that established the stripper loli magic god as Universal, but frankly I'd rather not.
> 
> Either way, this is an argument you wouldn't win.





all I'm saying is that Kenpachi's blade has no special ability that allows him to blow up meteors.


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## TehChron (Feb 7, 2015)

Regicide said:


> That's not really true, some of them just change shape.
> 
> Unless turning into a giant flail is considered an ability now.



And turning into a whipsword isn't?


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## TehChron (Feb 7, 2015)

Nightbringer said:


> all I'm saying is that Kenpachi's blade has no special ability that allows him to blow up meteors.



Pretty sure that all he did was cut it

He even said so himself


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 7, 2015)

TehChron said:


> Pretty sure that all he did was cut it
> 
> He even said so himself



I mean it shattered into a trillion pieces

it's not like he cut it in half or anything, he blew it the fuck up


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## AgentAAA (Feb 7, 2015)

Is a flail gimmicky now?
because I feel as far as form change it's at the least not more impressive than Nozarashi is, particularly given it's as big as fucking kenpachi himself.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Feb 7, 2015)

Nightbringer said:


> all I'm saying is that Kenpachi's blade has no special ability that allows him to blow up meteors.



That'd be quite a specific ability. 

I mean you can't argue space time cut or cut through anything, wouldn't it be cleaner in that case? Zanpakuto get stronger along with user. Kenpachi just happens to be a high tier without even putting out and can crank it up higher now that he has the ability that shit tiers in comparison way back when had.


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## Regicide (Feb 7, 2015)

Maybe he's talking about how it's a larger than average flail.


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## AgentAAA (Feb 7, 2015)

as it is - and I'll freely admit, this is still Kubo's bullshit, so there's no guarantee he follows this precedent - zanpakutos don't give up their special abilities right from the get-go, AND boost their user's reiatsu up regardless of their ability once in shikai. whether Kenpachi can use Nozarashi's special ability, assuming it has one and it's not just related to further amps, is kind of speculating by itself.
Though it's not like Kubo hasn't forgotten about all of this.


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## TehChron (Feb 7, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> as it is - and I'll freely admit, this is still Kubo's bullshit, so there's no guarantee he follows this precedent - zanpakutos don't give up their special abilities right from the get-go, AND boost their user's reiatsu up regardless of their ability once in shikai. whether Kenpachi can use Nozarashi's special ability, assuming it has one and it's not just related to further amps, is kind of speculating by itself.
> Though it's not like Kubo hasn't forgotten about all of this.



In all fairness, Nozarashi always _was_ in it's released state

It just didnt turn into a fuckhuge axe thing until after Kenpachi learned it's true name


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 7, 2015)

It was probably like Yumichika's fake release


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## TehChron (Feb 7, 2015)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> It was probably like Yumichika's fake release



Just goes to show that Clorox is such a mess that even it's swords say "This isnt even my final form!"


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## AgentAAA (Feb 8, 2015)

TehChron said:


> In all fairness, Nozarashi always _was_ in it's released state
> i


Which was retconned... terribly. horribly. Kubo's about as out of touch with his character's abilities as Toriyama is, without the excuse of a 20 year gap and being otherwise adorable to pull him out of this hole he dug


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 8, 2015)

Not necessarily. Yumichika could make his sword partially release by saying its name wrong.


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## Sherlōck (Feb 8, 2015)

TehChron said:


> Huh, it turns out the only actual line is Kenpachi's statement that there's "Nothing he can't cut" after all.



Yeah, he is freaking strong. He eventually cuts through every opponent no matter how strong they are. That's all there is. There is no hidden meaning behind it.

And taking reference from wiki ? Really?



TehChron said:


> Pretty sure that all he did was cut it
> 
> He even said so himself



He destroyed it into thousand pieces. That's more than cutting.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Feb 8, 2015)

I guess Nozarashi lying on the floor would destroy the meteor too if it hits it.


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## Sherlōck (Feb 8, 2015)

Are you a prophet zenith?  How the hell do you know that?


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## ZenithXAbyss (Feb 8, 2015)

Well, the sword does all the work afterall.


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