# Sengoku vs the Yonko inidividually



## Infinite Darkness (Oct 22, 2014)

How would MF Sengoku do against the Emperors 1 VS 1?

Location:Marinford
Intent: Each of the Emperors want to kill Sengoku, Garp is away at the time, so he can't interfere.
Knowledge: Sengoku has basic knowledge about the Yonko and vice-versa.
Starting distance: 1000M

This is Marinford Sengoku, Yonko are in their current positions.

Sengoku vs Shanks
Sengoku vs Kaido
Sengoku vs Big Mom
Sengoku vs Blackbeard

Would he survive? or maybe even defeat some of them?


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## Canute87 (Oct 22, 2014)

Sengoku looks like this after each one are  through with him.


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## Rob (Oct 22, 2014)

Loses to all. 

I wouldn't be surprised if he was weaker than Kizaru and Kuzan


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## zoro (Oct 22, 2014)

He'd lose to all of them

Big Mom and Teach take it extreme diff, Kaido and Shanks higher end of high


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 22, 2014)

Any one of the Emperors can beat Old Sengoku and make him shave off his afro afterwards to rub it in.
Prime Sengoku imo is a different story.


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## trance (Oct 22, 2014)

I'd wager MF Sengoku is weaker than all the Emperors. He _possibly_ beats Teach but that's if he's still hasn't reached his peak.


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## Pirao (Oct 22, 2014)

He should be strong enough to escape them, if that's what he's aiming for. Maybe he coud defeat current BB because he's probably still growing in power, but that's about it.


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## Infinite Darkness (Oct 22, 2014)

Pirao said:


> He should be strong enough to escape them, if that's what he's aiming for. Maybe he coud defeat current BB because he's probably still growing in power, but that's about it.



I doubt Kaido would let him escape considering his brutal personality.


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## Luke (Oct 22, 2014)

He gets varying degrees of high diff'd by each and every one of them.


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## Dunno (Oct 22, 2014)

Loses all of them with around high diff.  A bit lower against Shanks and a bit higher against Big Fatty.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Oct 22, 2014)

Loses to Shanks and Kaido high difficulty.

Probably loses to Big Mum as well though there could be inkling of a shot depending on what Oda does with her. 

May beat current Teach, though obviously EoS Teach should be no match for him.


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## Infinite Darkness (Oct 22, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Loses all of them with around high diff.  A bit lower against Shanks and a bit higher against Big Fatty.



I don't think there is much of a difference between the Yonko, although Kaido would probably be quickest with him, i don't think Shanks would decide to kill him.


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## Ruse (Oct 22, 2014)

Loses to all of them.


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## Dunno (Oct 22, 2014)

Infinite Darkness said:


> I don't think there is much of a difference between the Yonko, although Kaido would probably be quickest with him, i don't think Shanks would decide to kill him.



Not much indeed, but some. I think Shanks would be able to beat Big Mom with very high diff. It wouldn't be easy, but he wouldn't be on death's door afterwards. I'd say Big Mom is about as strong as the C3, while the rest of the Yonkou are a little bit stronger. But these are just my guesses, it might certainly be wrong.


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## savior2005 (Oct 22, 2014)

prime sengoku loses to shanks and kaido but beats big mom


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## Canute87 (Oct 22, 2014)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Loses to Shanks and Kaido high difficulty.
> 
> Probably loses to Big Mum as well though there could be inkling of a shot depending on what Oda does with her.
> 
> May beat current Teach, though obviously *EoS Teach should be a low difficulty match for him*.



Fixed.


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## J★J♥ (Oct 22, 2014)

I can't see him losing to shanks


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## Valdie (Oct 22, 2014)

Loses to all of them but Kaido.


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## Gohara (Oct 22, 2014)

1. Shanks wins with around mid difficulty.

2. It could go either way, but if I had to choose I would lean towards Sengoku winning with extremely high difficulty.

3. Sengoku wins with high to extremely high difficulty.

4. It could go either way, but if I had to choose I would lean towards Sengoku winning with high to extremely high difficulty.

I view Sengoku as being above Admiral level in terms of power.  He's ranked higher, defeated a Yonkou with Garp's help, bested the pre time skip Blackbeard Pirates combined, and held down an angry Garp in his Base form.

Of course, this is just IMO.


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## JoJo (Oct 22, 2014)

I think all the Yonko would defeat Sengoku. He's had fairly poor portrayal and low levels of hype, nothing on the level of of the current Yonko. Teach is arguable, depending on how much he has progressed.


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## Sablés (Oct 22, 2014)

Sengoku murked the entire BB crew IIRC. Pretty impressive stuff considering Teach's firepower.


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## Kurou (Oct 22, 2014)

Buggy low diffs


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## B Rabbit (Oct 22, 2014)

Yeah Sengoku was holding his own against the entire BB pirates. 

You guys are underrating him, he was basically Garp's Whitebeard.


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## Coruscation (Oct 22, 2014)

Each Yonkou beats him. They are the top of the top in the Great Age of Piracy. Unless one of them (probably Big Mom) turns out to have deteriorated with age as then it could probably go either way. I consider old Sengoku to probably be around the same strength as Kizaru which imo is not enough to beat any of the Yonkou. You want to be Akainu for that.



			
				Gohara said:
			
		

> 1. Shanks wins with around mid difficulty.
> 
> 2. It could go either way, but if I had to choose I would lean towards Sengoku winning with extremely high difficulty.
> 
> ...



You really think Sengoku beats Big Mom with possibly high difficulty, and Shanks mid diffs the same Sengoku? Damn. Big Mom ought to just hand in her Yonkou card right now.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 22, 2014)

Sengoku loses high diff to all of them. 

Prime Sengoku might be able to take out the weakest Yonkou whoever that may be.


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## Canute87 (Oct 22, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> You really think Sengoku beats Big Mom with possibly high difficulty, and Shanks mid diffs the same Sengoku? Damn. Big Mom ought to just hand in her Yonkou card right now.



She'd eat anybody who tries to take that from her.


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## convict (Oct 22, 2014)

Sengoku was an Admiral. That is saying a lot obviously, but his strength was never hyped up to be special _compared to other characters of that level_ (current Admirals/Yonkou). To our knowledge he is simply at that level. Garp's strength, now that was hyped to be special to the point that even in his older change he _might_ just beat some of the strongest characters of this current era like Kizaru or Big Mom. Sengoku was always special for his strategic mind, not his bizarre strength (again I am talking in relation to other characters of that level) and thus in his old age in which he has diminished in strength a bit the benefit of the doubt should clearly be given to the elites of the newer generation. The only person I can see losing to Sengoku amongst the Yonkou/Admirals is Teach and pretty soon Teach will be the world's strongest.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 22, 2014)

Shanks probably mid-diffs (lower end) Old Sengoku.
Kaidou probably high-diffs (lower end) Old Sengoku.
Current Teach probably high-diffs Old Sengoku. 
Big Mom probably loses to Old Sengoku, but I can see her pulling out a victory 2/10 times. 

I can only see Old Sengoku winning against Big Mom, though she'd push him to very high difficulty.
Prime Sengoku still loses to both Shanks and Kaidou, but he can stalemate Current Teach or high-diff Big Mom.


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## SsjAzn (Oct 23, 2014)

The emperors are the top dogs of the piracy age, and Sengoku does not have their level of hype. At best Sengoku is as strong as Kizaru who is slightly weaker than the emperors. The Admirals that can likely beat them, excluding Shanks, are Akainu and Aokiji. 

Shanks >= Akainu >= Aokiji ~ Kaidou ~ Big Mom >= Kizaru ~ Sengoku


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## Infinite Darkness (Oct 23, 2014)

B Rabbit said:


> Yeah Sengoku was holding his own against the entire BB pirates.
> 
> You guys are underrating him, he was basically Garp's Whitebeard.



Sengoku caught them off guard, that's all. Yeah, the attack was strong, but he only fought BB in a fair 1 to 1, and that was a stalemate.


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## Monster (Oct 23, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> Each Yonkou beats him. They are the top of the top in the Great Age of Piracy. Unless one of them (probably Big Mom) turns out to have deteriorated with age as then it could probably go either way. I consider old Sengoku to probably be around the same strength as Kizaru which imo is not enough to beat any of the Yonkou. You want to be Akainu for that.
> 
> 
> 
> You really think Sengoku beats Big Mom with possibly high difficulty, and Shanks mid diffs the same Sengoku? Damn. Big Mom ought to just hand in her Yonkou card right now.



Gohara is a troll, don't mind him. In fact just save yourself the trouble and put him on your ignore list right away. Also add Valdie on there too.


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## Ghost (Oct 23, 2014)

Loses all imo.


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## Amol (Oct 24, 2014)

This is Marinford Sengoku, Yonko are in their current positions.

Sengoku vs Shanks :- Shanks win high diff 
Sengoku vs Kaido:- Kiado wins high diff 
Sengoku vs Big Mom :-Big Mom wins extreme diff 
Sengoku vs Blackbeard :- Blackbeard wins high diff


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## Vengeance (Oct 24, 2014)

All the Yonkou should be above old Sengoku imo.


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## Sherlōck (Oct 24, 2014)

Can't really say cause we know *BIG FAT NOTHING* about Sengoku & Yonko.


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Oct 24, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> She'd *suck off* anybody who tries to take that from her.


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## Gohara (Oct 24, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> You really think Sengoku beats Big Mom with possibly high difficulty, and Shanks mid diffs the same Sengoku? Damn. Big Mom ought to just hand in her Yonkou card right now.



What I'm saying is that I estimate that Sengoku would defeat Big Mam with between high difficulty and extremely high difficulty.

You can be a Yonkou and still not be on par with Shanks.


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## trance (Oct 24, 2014)

Gohara said:


> You can be a Yonkou and still not be on par with Shanks.



I think I've come to realization that you're just a Shanks fanboy.


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## Gohara (Oct 24, 2014)

What makes you say that?

I would also say that you can be a Yonkou and still not be on par with old Whitebeard.


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## savior2005 (Oct 24, 2014)

wtf am i reading. sengoku can beat bigmom with high dif but lose to shanks mid diff?


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## Infinite Darkness (Oct 24, 2014)

Gohara said:


> What makes you say that?
> 
> I would also say that you can be a Yonkou and still not be on par with old Whitebeard.



The thing is, there is nothing that suggests that Shanks on a different level than the other Yonko.

Old WB was in a different league, he was part of the older generation while Shanks was still a kid back then. Clashing with WB means absolutely nothing, any Yonko could do that as well as stop a war that was at the ending. Ithas been shown that the Yonko fought over land in the past, that means that the Yonko are very close to power, which means that there NO WAY Shanks is mid diffing Sengoku while Sengoku defeats Big Mom with high-extreme difficulty.

That's a BIG gap you're making there, if Big Mom loses with high-extreme difficulty, then Shanks wins high-extreme difficulty. They must be in the same category otherwise it doesn't make sense.


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## Gohara (Oct 24, 2014)

Shanks' role in the series and the fact that Roger saw him as the next big thing is enough for me to estimate him to be notably stronger than some of the other Yonkou.

I'm not sure I would say Shanks/old Whitebeard are on a different level than the other Yonkou, but I don't think the other Yonkou are on par with Shanks/old Whitebeard either.

We don't know that other Yonkou outside of Shanks could have clashed equally with old Whitebeard.

The other Yonkou seem to have much bigger crews than the Red Hair Pirates.  So while the Yonkou crews may be somewhat on par with each other, that doesn't necessarily mean the Yonkou themselves are on par with each other.


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## Infinite Darkness (Oct 24, 2014)

Gohara said:


> Shanks' role in the series and the fact that Roger saw him as the next big thing is enough for me to estimate him to be notably stronger than some of the other Yonkou.
> 
> I'm not sure I would say Shanks/old Whitebeard are on a different level than the other Yonkou, but I don't think the other Yonkou are on par with Shanks/old Whitebeard either.
> 
> ...



It's been said that they all battled for land in the past, this means they are similar in power. 

All Shanks has is his role in the story, that's it. 

If you think he is stronger than other Yonko then that's your opinion, i personally think Kaido is the big thing, however saying Shanks mid diffs Sengoku while BM who is comparable in strength to Shanks loses high diff makes you look like a fanboy.

WB treated him like a little boy in their meeting, that says a lot.


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## Gohara (Oct 24, 2014)

-Even if so, that just means the crew themselves are somewhat on par with each other.  That doesn't necessarily mean Kaidou and Big Mam are on par with Shanks and old Whitebeard.

-As well as his clash with old Whitebeard and Roger seeing him as the next big thing.

-As I said, I didn't necessarily say that Sengoku would defeat Big Mam with high difficulty.  I said that I estimate that he will defeat her with between high difficulty and extremely high difficulty.  I could maybe even agree with extremely high difficulty.  That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm saying Shanks and Big Mam aren't comparable in terms of power.  That just means that I don't estimate Big Mam to be on par with Shanks.  I also don't estimate Big Mam to be on par with old Whitebeard, so my estimation of how the Yonkou compare to each other isn't centered around Shanks.

-He really only made one comment when he got angry, but other than that he treated Shanks respectfully.  I don't see how that disagrees with anything I said here.


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## Infinite Darkness (Oct 24, 2014)

Gohara said:


> -Even if so, that just means the crew themselves are somewhat on par with each other.  That doesn't necessarily mean Kaidou and Big Mam are on par with Shanks and old Whitebeard.
> 
> -As well as his clash with old Whitebeard and Roger seeing him as the next big thing.
> 
> ...



It didn't say anything about their crews, they only mentioned the Yonko ALONE. Their crews are completely irrelevant here.

Saying that Shanks defeats Sengoku with mid diff is pure BS tough, even if he is old, it won't be that easy, and it's also impossible for one Emperor to defeat a top tier with mid diff, and other Emperor to lose high-extreme diff, as i said previously the Emperors are nearly equal, therefore even if she is not on par with Shanks, the gap you are making is too big since they are similar in power and status.


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## Gohara (Oct 24, 2014)

We know that the crews help them, so if it wasn't specified that the crews are excluded, I see no reason to believe that's the case.

A lot of what you're saying here is just your interpretation of some of One Piece's power levels.  I respect it and can understand why you view it that way, but I've already explained why I estimate Shanks and old Whitebeard as highly as I do, and you haven't really said anything that leads me to believe that my current estimation of them isn't exactly the case.  Simply saying that you find it hard to believe that one top tier would defeat another with around mid difficulty is fine, but I see nothing that clearly proves that such is unlikely.


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## trance (Oct 25, 2014)

Gohara said:


> We don't know that other Yonkou outside of Shanks could have clashed equally with old Whitebeard.



According to Law, they've each clashed against Whitebeard. Considering no one has been able to advance further than another, it's reasonable and logical to assume that they're close to each other in the grand scheme of things.


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## Infinite Darkness (Oct 25, 2014)

Gohara said:


> We know that the crews help them, so if it wasn't specified that the crews are excluded, I see no reason to believe that's the case.
> 
> A lot of what you're saying here is just your interpretation of some of One Piece's power levels.  I respect it and can understand why you view it that way, but I've already explained why I estimate Shanks and old Whitebeard as highly as I do, and you haven't really said anything that leads me to believe that my current estimation of them isn't exactly the case.  Simply saying that you find it hard to believe that one top tier would defeat another with around mid difficulty is fine, but I see nothing that clearly proves that such is unlikely.



The Yonkos own the land they were fighting for, not the crews.The crews were not involved when WB and Shanks clashed, and since they all fought long time ago, it's possible that the Yonko didn't have their crews back then. All of this makes it' clear they have all clashed with WB  for land which makes your estimation wrong.

What i am saying is that the gap you are making is too big as i previously stated, my points are supported by evidence, and a lot of people seem to agree since common sense is required to figure it out.

Your opinion is your opinion tough.


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## Freechoice (Oct 25, 2014)

I view Sengoku as Garp's polar opposite

Extremely smart, master strategist... not really into the whole brute force thing.

I believe he could beat opponents that are fundamentally stronger than him due to his battle genius.


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## Captain Altintop (Oct 25, 2014)

Old Sengoku is equal to C3 at MF. 

He would possibly tie with Big Mum / Teach (extreme diff either way), but lose to Kaido / Shanks (very high to extreme diff).


Prime Sengoku would beat Shanks / Kaido very high diff. , and beat Big Mum / Teach  high diff.


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## Gohara (Oct 25, 2014)

@ Starkiller.

Again, though, that really only tells us that their crews aren't much stronger than each other.

@ Infinite.

The crews own the land, but the Yonkou themselves are in charge of them.  Even if I agreed that only the Yonkou themselves own them, that doesn't necessarily mean that the crews didn't help.

Shanks and Whitebeard didn't clash over land.

The only evidence you've posted here is that all the Yonkou own land, but I've explained why that doesn't necessarily mean that the Yonkou themselves are on par with each other.  There are also other reasons.  I find Roger's view of Shanks, Shanks' role in the series, and Shanks clashing equally with old Whitebeard to be more convincing than all the Yonkou owning land.

I don't think that it really matters who agrees with what.  I think that the reasoning itself matters.  Besides, I've seen a lot of people that think Shanks is notably stronger than Kaidou and Big Mam.  That's not really what common sense is.  Common sense is that if you run, you will likely be moving faster than if you walk.  We're discussing something that is currently mostly subjective and is dependent on our own interpretations of some of One Piece's power levels.

True, though, some of this is just my opinion.  Even if we disagree, I respect your opinion here.


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## Firo (Oct 25, 2014)

I still dont  get how you guys argue about characters we havent even seen fight yet.


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## Infinite Darkness (Oct 25, 2014)

Gohara said:


> @ Starkiller.
> 
> Again, though, that really only tells us that their crews aren't much stronger than each other.
> 
> ...



"Again, though, that really only tells us that their crews aren't much stronger than each other"

I don't get how them clashing together has anything to do with their crews, Law clearly said they all clashed individually and nothing was mentioned about crews, therefore it's a fact that they clashed, not an opinion. I also don't see how individual fights determine the strength of a whole crew. That doesn't make sense.

I also don't see how Shanks clashing with WB is any different than the other Yonko clashing with what could be a younger WB, since it happened long time ago.

Kaido is said to be the strongest thing in the world, and has enough hype to be considered above the majority characters but saying he beats Sengoku mid diff is a bit over the top.

One thing that people have pointed out is that your comparison of their power levels is not correct, but that is your opinion, so i am going to leave it at that, but i disagree with your view on the Yonko clashing, and the other  Yonko not being on par with Shanks.


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## Gohara (Oct 25, 2014)

Law didn't specify whether he meant individually or in a group fight, but we already know that the crews help the Yonkou themselves.  Luffy gained the territory of Fishman Island with the help of his crew.  Law also didn't specify how successful the Yonkou are when clashing with each other.

The difference here is that we saw Shanks and old Whitebeard clashing equally.

Kaidou is the strongest creature in the world.  The word creature implies that Kaidou is either the strongest animalistic type being, the strongest Zoan Devil Fruit user, and/or the strongest vicious pirate.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say some people estimate Shanks to be weaker than I estimate Shanks to be.  It's not strange that in a debate, some are going to have different opinions.

Fair enough.  I have no issue with you having a different opinion here.  As I said, I respect your opinion here.


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## trance (Oct 26, 2014)

Gohara said:


> @ Starkiller.
> 
> Again, though, that really only tells us that their crews aren't much stronger than each other.



Law didn't say anything about their crews. So, now what?


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## Gohara (Oct 26, 2014)

As I said, though, he also didn't say that he's excluding the crews- and in the multiple instances we've seen crews taking over territory, they've had their crews helping them.


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## trance (Oct 26, 2014)

You can't prove that. So, until further notice, Law was taking about the Yonko captains.


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## Infinite Darkness (Oct 26, 2014)

Gohara said:


> Law didn't specify whether he meant individually or in a group fight, but we already know that the crews help the Yonkou themselves.  Luffy gained the territory of Fishman Island with the help of his crew.  Law also didn't specify how successful the Yonkou are when clashing with each other.
> 
> The difference here is that we saw Shanks and old Whitebeard clashing equally.
> 
> ...



At the time, they fought over territory which means that it must have been a while ago, if their crews were involved, then then there would be a war. 

Kaido is said to be the strongest "thing" not creature, that to me is more than anything Shanks has.


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## Gohara (Oct 27, 2014)

@ Starkiller.

The burden of proof is on the person bringing it up as evidence.  

@ Infinite.

That doesn't really disagree with anything I said here, though.

On MangaHelpers it says creature.  However, thing also implies that he's the strongest of a certain type of being, rather than the strongest being.  Otherwise, I see no reason for Oda to not just say that he's the strongest being.


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## trance (Oct 27, 2014)

Just concede that point, bruh.


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