# Doflamingo VS Hancock



## Jet Bazooka (Feb 9, 2013)

Location: Marineford
Distance: 20 meters
Knowledge: Both have full knowledge of each others abilities.
Restrictions: None
Blood lusted.

GO!


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## Tiger (Feb 9, 2013)

Most likely Doffy wins this. Hopefully this arc will tell us definitively.


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## Coruscation (Feb 9, 2013)

Doflamingo is more hyped in literally every single way. CotC used to be the only reason to even think twice about this match far as I'm concerned. They both have the Conqueror's Haki, indicating supreme potential, but one goes around Paradise beating up small fry with no greater ambition than staying in peace on her island, also in Paradise... one is the boss of the New World's underground crime scene, is known as the worst of the Shichibukai, has a powerful Vice Admiral as a subordinate and aims for the Pirate King title.

That, if anything, is what you call "no contest".


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## RF (Feb 9, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> Doflamingo is more hyped in literally every single way. CotC used to be the only reason to even think twice about this match far as I'm concerned. They both have the Conqueror's Haki, indicating supreme potential, but one goes around Paradise beating up small fry with no greater ambition than staying in peace on her island, also in Paradise... one is the boss of the New World's underground crime scene, is known as the worst of the Shichibukai, has a powerful Vice Admiral as a subordinate and aims for the Pirate King title.
> 
> That, if anything, is what you call "no contest".



pretty much this.


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## Viper (Feb 9, 2013)

Dofla wins.  


Extreme diff


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## A Optimistic (Feb 9, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> Doflamingo is more hyped in literally every single way. CotC used to be the only reason to even think twice about this match far as I'm concerned. They both have the Conqueror's Haki, indicating supreme potential, but one goes around Paradise beating up small fry with no greater ambition than staying in peace on her island, also in Paradise... one is the boss of the New World's underground crime scene, is known as the worst of the Shichibukai, has a powerful Vice Admiral as a subordinate and aims for the Pirate King title.
> 
> That, if anything, is what you call "no contest".



would you say dolfa beats her with mid difficulty?


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## Coruscation (Feb 9, 2013)

Probably something like that, yeah.


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## Jet Bazooka (Feb 9, 2013)

I don't think Doflamingo is beating Hancock with anything less than extreme difficulty. She has an extremely powerful DF and is hyped to have beast haki.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Feb 9, 2013)

lolHancock.

Dofla wins with mid difficulty at the most. 

I personally see Hancock has M3 level, so I would think Dofla wins with no-low diffculty.


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## StrawHat4Life (Feb 9, 2013)

Too close to call as far as I'm concerned. Hancock still has impressive hype on her side. She basically had a veteran Vice Admiral by the balls. I don't see Doflamingo winning this with anything less than high difficulty.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Feb 9, 2013)

StrawHat4Life said:


> Too close to call as far as I'm concerned. Hancock still has impressive hype on her side. *She basically had a veteran Vice Admiral by the balls. *I don't see Doflamingo winning this with anything less than high difficulty.




Why do people take the interaction between Momonga and Hancock out of context?

Even to the point, where some people think that Hancock actually beat Momonga.


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## StrawHat4Life (Feb 9, 2013)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Why do people take the interaction between Momonga and Hancock out of context?
> 
> Even to the point, where some people think that Hancock actually beat Momonga.



At what point was Momonga at an advantage in that situation? I was never under the impression that Momonga could've used force to get Hancock to do anything she didn't want to.


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## White (Feb 9, 2013)

Dofla takes with mid-high difficulty. Forcing Momonga to stab his own hand instead of simply dodging pretty much confirms it werent an equal encounter.


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## Canute87 (Feb 9, 2013)

Flamingo should be able to take it on account of him having more experience.


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## Rob (Feb 9, 2013)

*Doflamingo stabs own hand
*Hancock wins


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## Bitty (Feb 9, 2013)

yea...I agree Hancock could have kicked Momonga's head off any time she wanted too.
also her & Dofla have some similarities.

both Warlords
both possess CotC
both have haxx abilities
both embarrassed a vice-admiral & his crew
they both left the war untouched(not the best example)

i'd still give Dofla the benefit of the doubt & say there's way in hell he's losing...but he's not stomping her either like he did smoker.  Almost sure she puts up a decent fight before going down.


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## Rob (Feb 9, 2013)

^Well, considering there is a chance that Hancock could win, neither of them would go down w/o a fight  

We'll all have to wait for Viper to post now.


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## Sablés (Feb 9, 2013)

A bit slow aren't you.


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## Kanki (Feb 9, 2013)

I've just gone back and read past chapters - how did Hancock humiliate Momonga?


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## Bitty (Feb 9, 2013)

Momonga was on his knees bleeding from hand, completely at her mercy.  She could have kicked his head off if she wanted to.

well you could say she didn't completely embarrass him...but i think it was a sure indication there weren't on the same level.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Feb 9, 2013)

StrawHat4Life said:


> At what point was Momonga at an advantage in that situation? I was never under the impression that Momonga could've used force to get Hancock to do anything she didn't want to.




He obviously could have, if those were his orders. 

Using force to being a warlord to Marine HQ is one of the most stupid things Momonga could have done.

He stabbed his hand to take his mind off the DF effects, in what way is that embarrassing/indicating their not on the same level? Now that Hancock doesn't have the CotC hype overriding Doflamingo, some people are now trying to insinuate that she can do the same thing that Doflamingo did to VA level Marine from that one interaction with Momonga.


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## Bitty (Feb 9, 2013)

...give him a break.  This isn't a stomp thread at least. Hancock's not winning but she's also not getting the smoker treatment.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Feb 9, 2013)

8Bit Dreamz said:


> ...give him a break.  This isn't a stomp thread at least. Hancock's not winning but she's also not getting the smoker treatment.




I don't think she'll do much better.


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## Rob (Feb 9, 2013)

Well... it' snot like Hancock winning is completely out of question... 

So, the thread isn't bad...


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## Viper (Feb 9, 2013)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> He obviously could have, if those were his orders.
> 
> Using force to being a warlord to Marine HQ is one of the most stupid things Momonga could have done.
> 
> *He stabbed his hand *to take his mind off the DF effects, *in what way is that embarrassing/indicating their not on the same level?* Now that Hancock doesn't have the CotC hype overriding Doflamingo, some people are now trying to insinuate that she can do the same thing that Doflamingo did to VA level Marine from that one interaction with Momonga.



You can't be serious right now. He was forced to his knees and stabbed his hand. 

Do you know what humiliation is, sir?


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## Viper (Feb 9, 2013)

As to this thread. Both pretty featless, both need a couple more fights. Where they stand is obviously unclear atm.


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## Typhon (Feb 9, 2013)

Doflomingo would probably win considering his hax is a very good matchup for Hancock's abilities. He doesn't even have to get close and can stop her from pulling off the arrows and stuff. I give it to Doflomingo high diff, unless that making anyone fall in love with you can actually work on very strong people. Then Doflomingo would be at her mercy the whole time.


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## SsjAzn (Feb 9, 2013)

Hancock is no where near as hyped as Doflamingo. This guy is the boss of the underground in the New World, has all 3 types of Haki, has a vice admiral as his pawn, and the World Gov't will send admirals to go after him if he cuts loose. Also he stopped Jozu from steamrolling Crocodile, and severely injured Smoker with a casual attack. He takes it with mid difficulty though, since Hancock is at least strong enough not to get rolled over like Smoker.


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## SsjAzn (Feb 9, 2013)

Viper said:


> As to this thread. Both pretty featless, both need a couple more fights. Where they stand is obviously unclear atm.



The World Government is willing to send admirals to hunt Doflamingo, if he ever resigned his position. Hancock can't do crap against an admiral.


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## Jinemba (Feb 9, 2013)

What is stopping Doflamingo from taking control of her as soon as the fight begins and making her kill herself, walk into water, or something of the sort?

In any scenario, all Doflamingo has to do is lift his fingers and the fight is over in his favor. Smoker has haki too, while it isn't on par with Boa's it still didn't help him at all.

Jozu has haki, huge physical strength which helps to break binds and strong enough to tangle with an Admiral. All of that got him no where with Doflamingo, in a one on one encounter Jozu would have been walked into the sea and died.

Doflamingo wins this rather comfortably.

If he can easily put Jozu in a position where Doflamingo has the option of killing him, then he can do the same with Boa just as easily.


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## convict (Feb 9, 2013)

A good rule of thumb (obviously with exceptions) to measure the generalized strength of a prominent figure is basing it on his or her subordinates.  For example we can gather Croc was strong but not elite by looking at Daz and we can gather WB was pretty much unparalleled because he had an admiral level first mate. Hancock's strongest subordinate is a weakling who lost to a rookie. Doflamingo's strongest _known_ subordinate is a distinguished  and experienced Vice Admiral who leads a base in the New World and is a master of armament Haki. As mentioned Hancock is a content ruler of an isolated kingdom in paradise while Doflamingo is an active kingpin who runs the new world underground. Hancock's best combat feat is destroying Pacifistas which is absolutey nothing special even for fighters beneath her. We know she can pack a punch because Sentomaru was panting after he seemingly had an exchange with her indicating she was the superior of the two, but also showing us that he could likely last a while against her. Which he wouldn't against Doflamingo. She was absolutely enraged at Smoker before for harming her beloved when Smoker was far weaker with his current self (and could not use Haki) yet she did not maul him on the spot but only stood in his way. This indicates that she would have to exert some effort to defeat him. Doflamingo on the other hand absolutely destroyed a much stronger version of Smoker with almost zero difficulty. 

Hancock has received hype by Sengoku who mentioned how her power would be a great asset. However, looking at how much he wanted Jinbei to join back with the marines, I think he shared the same opinion about him. That just shows she is strong, not that she is on the level of Doflmango. Hancock's greatest hype is making Momonga kneel in front of her DF hax. This isn't because of her combat prowess but because of her hax. We know she had CoC thus she likely has massive willpower that dwarf's Momonga's own. In regards to actual combat prowess there is no evidence that she is superior to even Luffy yet her willpower, which obviously pushes the limits of her DF hax, is to be looked out for. Before, the only reservation I had about Doflamingo being able to resist her resulted from the possibility that his force of will could not overcome the love hax of Hancock's. But now we know that Doflamingo also possesses CoC and by extension he will be far more resistant to Hancock's ability than Momonga was and without her love shield Hancock will get mauled. 

I predict that Hancock's powers may initially give Doflamingo concern due to their overwhelming nature, but he will definitely be able to resist it with his own willpower and subsequently unleash hell on her. I am not discounting the possibility that it will be a low difficulty fight.


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## vanhellsing (Feb 9, 2013)

great post convict and where are the people who say oda isn't sexist eh


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## Jinemba (Feb 9, 2013)

I don't think Boa's love haxx would make any difference at all, we have seen that it only works on the weak minded. Doflamingo hasn't shown any symptoms of being swept off his feet by anything. Even a much weaker person like Zoro would most likely be unaffected by Boa's love haxx.

Doflamingo took a guy who kept an Admiral busy and made him just another puppet that he could have done whatever with. There may be limits to Doflamingo's power but physical strength of Jozu level isn't enough to improve your chances against Dofla and haki of WB commander level isn't enough to improve your chances against him either.

Boa has haxx but Doflamingo has shown even more haxx powers and so far it isn't one of those haxx powers with a draw back either. 

His haxx works even on a low top tier or high high tier, whatever you want to consider Jozu.


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## Tiger (Feb 9, 2013)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> I don't think she'll do much better.



People like you are why people like Skream post nonsense like "Hancock wins easily, Doffy = Crocodile."

Hancock is easily 3rd in the Warlord hierarchy, Doffy isn't beating her easily. I like Doffy better, but I just think some of you are downplaying her because you don't like how much attention her tits get on forums.


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## Zern227 (Feb 9, 2013)

What's stopping Boa from turning Doflamingo's strings to stone and then breaking them. She has shown on multiple occasions that she can turn inanimate objects to stones.


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## convict (Feb 9, 2013)

^No limits fallacy.


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## Zern227 (Feb 9, 2013)

convict said:


> ^No limits fallacy.



Boa's DF powers are hax. Your acting as if most devil fruit powers explanations don't fall into NLF. Unlike, others my ideas was brought about by things that Boa has done multiple of times.

This thread should be save for another time.


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## StrawHat4Life (Feb 9, 2013)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> He obviously could have, if those were his orders.
> 
> Using force to being a warlord to Marine HQ is one of the most stupid things Momonga could have done.
> 
> He stabbed his hand to take his mind off the DF effects, in what way is that embarrassing/indicating their not on the same level? Now that Hancock doesn't have the CotC hype overriding Doflamingo, some people are now trying to insinuate that she can do the same thing that Doflamingo did to VA level Marine from that one interaction with Momonga.



She petrified his entire crew and he was helpless to do anything about it. His only recourse was to threaten the revocation of her shichibukai status as she casually returned home. As for stabbing himself, Momonga obviously couldn't defend with haki. Do you expect him to use that stabbing trick every time? Not that it would work against her touch or arrows for that matter. Nothing about their encounter implied that he was her equal. 

I never really say her having CoC as an important factor in this equation. She's got more than enough hype besides that to warrant her putting up one hell of a fight against Doflamingo.


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## convict (Feb 9, 2013)

> Your acting as if most devil fruit powers explanations don't fall into NLF.



They don't. Haki prevents them from doing so.



> Doflamingo as controlling Boa in this case would just be an association fallacy anyway.



What on Earth are you talking about?


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## Zern227 (Feb 9, 2013)

convict said:


> They don't. Haki prevents them from doing so.



Boa would have turned Momonga to stone which him having Haki didn't seem to matter. This I why I think it she should have a much better chance then you guys give her.

We honestly should lock this tread until we better feats for both.


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## convict (Feb 9, 2013)

Actually that kind of proves my point. Momonga had more powerful "presence" or Haki than his subordinates therefore he was able to resist her stone powers with great difficulty. He even used the aid of pain to do so. It goes to reason that someone with far more willpower than him would be able to deal with her power much easier than he did.


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## Tiger (Feb 9, 2013)

He used pain to break the 'spell' of lust that was coming over him. Not because he's powerful, but because he's intelligent and has a lot of battle experience in a crazy world.

Doesn't mean she couldn't have nailed him in the forehead with a slave arrow at twenty yards. It just means he's a badass who swims with sharks.


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## convict (Feb 9, 2013)

She clearly had him at her mercy and would beat him in a fight, but Momonga used pain _and_ his own personal willpower to ward of her seductive powers. I will be highly surprised if far more forceful personalities like Shanks, Rayleigh, or even Doflamingo have to resort to stabbing themselves to resist her.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Feb 9, 2013)

> People like you are why people like Skream post nonsense like "Hancock wins easily, Doffy = Crocodile."
> 
> Hancock is easily 3rd in the Warlord hierarchy, Doffy isn't beating her easily. I like Doffy better, but I just think some of you are downplaying her because you don't like how much attention her tits get on forums.



Is third for doing what exactly? Is third for being relevant in for story in what conceivable way? How would it make sense that a Warlord who sits in paradise would be the third strongest warlord? I'm not Downplaying her, M3 level is no where near downplaying her. She's pretty strong and being default M3 level and working her way up if Oda decides to actually show feats of her being stronger should not being seen as downplaying. 

Unless she can do what Doffy did to Smoker, she's putting up a mid-difficulty fight at best. She has hype, but its mostly been artificial hype from *this particular board* no other anime/manga board I've seen hype her up as much as 'we' do, even people in the anime/manga YouTube community don't hype her up. 



> She petrified his entire crew and he was helpless to do anything about it. His only recourse was to threaten the revocation of her shichibukai status as she casually returned home. As for stabbing himself, Momonga obviously couldn't defend with haki. Do you expect him to use that stabbing trick every time? Not that it would work against her touch or arrows for that matter. Nothing about their encounter implied that he was her equal.




Orders are orders in the marines. So far we haven't seen any haki that resists mental attacks so far, though it would be silly to assume that there won't be some form of guard. Also I hope you know that pain just does not go away, and as for the slave arrows, Momonga could easily avoid them. I'm not saying that Hancock isn't stronger than a VA, but she isn't beating any VA with less than mid-difficulty. She's just not on Doflaming's level, I don't know why that's hard to except(her relevance in the story does 
not demand for her to be as strong as people are hyping her up to be.)


Don't worry if you're looking for top-tier females we've got Big Mum,her crew and EOS Bonney to look forward to.


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## αce (Feb 9, 2013)

Logic tells me Doflamingo but for some reason I think Hancock is stronger than people realize. The one piece section in general is full of misogynistic virgins anyways so most of the Hancock hate stems from that.


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## StrawHat4Life (Feb 10, 2013)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Orders are orders in the marines. So far we haven't seen any haki that resists mental attacks so far, though it would be silly to assume that there won't be some form of guard. Also I hope you know that pain just does not go away, and as for the slave arrows, Momonga could easily avoid them. I'm not saying that Hancock isn't stronger than a VA, but she isn't beating any VA with less than mid-difficulty. She's just not on Doflaming's level, I don't know why that's hard to except(her relevance in the story does
> not demand for her to be as strong as people are hyping her up to be.)
> 
> 
> Don't worry if you're looking for top-tier females we've got Big Mum,her crew and EOS Bonney to look forward to.



This isn't a question of having to validate or justify Hancock's hype. She already has plenty of it, both in her depiction, her powers, and her feats in the manga. I personally think she's on Doflamingo's level. Hopefully we'll get a better gauge of Doflamingo's power depending on his encounter with you know who at the end of the last chapter. 

Also I like Bonney but she will never be top tier.


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## A Optimistic (Feb 10, 2013)

StrawHat4Life said:


> Do you expect him to use that stabbing trick every time?



It wasn't the stabbing that saved him, it was the _pain_ from the stabbing. Meaning, he only needed to do it once because that pain will stay with him for the remainder of the fight making Mero Mero Beam useless if he chose to fight her back.


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## Heretic (Feb 10, 2013)

convict said:


> A good rule of thumb (obviously with exceptions) to measure the generalized strength of a prominent figure is basing it on his or her subordinates.  For example we can gather Croc was strong but not elite by looking at Daz and we can gather WB was pretty much unparalleled because he had an admiral level first mate. Hancock's strongest subordinate is a weakling who lost to a rookie. Doflamingo's strongest _known_ subordinate is a distinguished  and experienced Vice Admiral who leads a base in the New World and is a master of armament Haki. As mentioned Hancock is a content ruler of an isolated kingdom in paradise while Doflamingo is an active kingpin who runs the new world underground. Hancock's best combat feat is destroying Pacifistas which is absolutey nothing special even for fighters beneath her. We know she can pack a punch because Sentomaru was panting after he seemingly had an exchange with her indicating she was the superior of the two, but also showing us that he could likely last a while against her. Which he wouldn't against Doflamingo. She was absolutely enraged at Smoker before for harming her beloved when Smoker was far weaker with his current self (and could not use Haki) yet she did not maul him on the spot but only stood in his way. This indicates that she would have to exert some effort to defeat him. Doflamingo on the other hand absolutely destroyed a much stronger version of Smoker with almost zero difficulty.
> 
> Hancock has received hype by Sengoku who mentioned how her power would be a great asset. However, looking at how much he wanted Jinbei to join back with the marines, I think he shared the same opinion about him. That just shows she is strong, not that she is on the level of Doflmango. Hancock's greatest hype is making Momonga kneel in front of her DF hax. This isn't because of her combat prowess but because of her hax. We know she had CoC thus she likely has massive willpower that dwarf's Momonga's own. In regards to actual combat prowess there is no evidence that she is superior to even Luffy yet her willpower, which obviously pushes the limits of her DF hax, is to be looked out for. Before, the only reservation I had about Doflamingo being able to resist her resulted from the possibility that his force of will could not overcome the love hax of Hancock's. But now we know that Doflamingo also possesses CoC and by extension he will be far more resistant to Hancock's ability than Momonga was and without her love shield Hancock will get mauled.
> 
> I predict that Hancock's powers may initially give Doflamingo concern due to their overwhelming nature, but he will definitely be able to resist it with his own willpower and subsequently unleash hell on her. I am not discounting the possibility that it will be a low difficulty fight.



Really good post, and I agree just about all of it. I am curious - where do you see Hancock in the general spectrum of power (tier-wise). Most people seem to pin her at high high tier or thereabouts, but I don't personally agree with that, mainly for the same reasons you gave above.


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## Shinthia (Feb 10, 2013)

DD wins here.


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## blueframe01 (Feb 10, 2013)

This is a tough one. Both of them have similar feats so far, and they should be proficient with all 3 types of Haki. Heck both their DF are equally hax too . IMO whoever wins this will do so with close to extreme difficulty. But I'm leaning slightly towards Dofla.


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## Green Monkey (Feb 10, 2013)

convict said:


> A good rule of thumb (obviously with exceptions) to measure the generalized strength of a prominent figure is basing it on his or her subordinates.  For example we can gather Croc was strong but not elite by looking at Daz and we can gather WB was pretty much unparalleled because he had an admiral level first mate. Hancock's strongest subordinate is a weakling who lost to a rookie. Doflamingo's strongest _known_ subordinate is a distinguished  and experienced Vice Admiral who leads a base in the New World and is a master of armament Haki. As mentioned Hancock is a content ruler of an isolated kingdom in paradise while Doflamingo is an active kingpin who runs the new world underground. Hancock's best combat feat is destroying Pacifistas which is absolutey nothing special even for fighters beneath her. We know she can pack a punch because Sentomaru was panting after he seemingly had an exchange with her indicating she was the superior of the two, but also showing us that he could likely last a while against her. Which he wouldn't against Doflamingo. She was absolutely enraged at Smoker before for harming her beloved when Smoker was far weaker with his current self (and could not use Haki) yet she did not maul him on the spot but only stood in his way. This indicates that she would have to exert some effort to defeat him. Doflamingo on the other hand absolutely destroyed a much stronger version of Smoker with almost zero difficulty.
> 
> Hancock has received hype by Sengoku who mentioned how her power would be a great asset. However, looking at how much he wanted Jinbei to join back with the marines, I think he shared the same opinion about him. That just shows she is strong, not that she is on the level of Doflmango. Hancock's greatest hype is making Momonga kneel in front of her DF hax. This isn't because of her combat prowess but because of her hax. We know she had CoC thus she likely has massive willpower that dwarf's Momonga's own. In regards to actual combat prowess there is no evidence that she is superior to even Luffy yet her willpower, which obviously pushes the limits of her DF hax, is to be looked out for. Before, the only reservation I had about Doflamingo being able to resist her resulted from the possibility that his force of will could not overcome the love hax of Hancock's. But now we know that Doflamingo also possesses CoC and by extension he will be far more resistant to Hancock's ability than Momonga was and without her love shield Hancock will get mauled.
> 
> I predict that Hancock's powers may initially give Doflamingo concern due to their overwhelming nature, but he will definitely be able to resist it with his own willpower and subsequently unleash hell on her. I am not discounting the possibility that it will be a low difficulty fight.



There's so many cases disproving your idea of judging characters by their subordinates...and they're extremely obvious too.


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## convict (Feb 10, 2013)

As I said there are exceptions but it actually works _far_ more often than not. By itself it is not a particularly compelling argument, but it adds to many other obvious reasons.



> I am curious - where do you see Hancock in the general spectrum of power (tier-wise). Most people seem to pin her at high high tier or thereabouts, but I don't personally agree with that, mainly for the same reasons you gave above.



I would say she is closer to the Luffy/Law bracket than Doflamingo's. So a subtier below the standard consensus if that is the case.


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## blueframe01 (Feb 10, 2013)

convict said:


> A good rule of thumb (obviously with exceptions) to measure the generalized strength of a prominent figure is basing it on his or her subordinates.



Jimbei, Moria & to a lesser extent, Caribou disagrees with this statement. I'm pretty sure they are more examples out there, but what the heck.


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## convict (Feb 10, 2013)

blueframe01 said:


> Jimbei, Moria & to a lesser extent, Caribou disagrees with this statement. I'm pretty sure they are more examples out there, but what the heck.



I repeat, it is a general rule of thumb not an irrefutable one. 

Neither Moria nor Caribou are good examples. And are you talking about Fisher Tiger? Because we have not seen Jinbei's crew. Spandam is the most obvious example but in that case the CP9 isn't really a pirate crew but a government branch of spies. There obviously are more far more examples supporting my statement than not so odds are the stronger your subordinate the stronger one will be.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Feb 10, 2013)

> Also I like Bonney but she will never be top tier.



Bite your tounge.


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## Whimsy (Feb 10, 2013)

I'd favour Doflamingo, but its too early to tell.


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## J★J♥ (Feb 10, 2013)

Doflaming wins, but Hankok is still second strongest warlord.


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## Shinthia (Feb 10, 2013)

SaCrEdpOoL said:


> Doflaming wins, but Hankok is still second strongest warlord.



well yea.


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## tupadre97 (Feb 10, 2013)

Mero mero gg


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## Shingy (Feb 10, 2013)

So the subordinates strength = the leader's strength. If only we had all thought of this sooner. 

I guess Garp must be Enel tier because his two main subordinates are Helmeppo and Coby.

No, that's obviously not how this goes. Hancock's subordinates are her sisters. Her sister's strengths have no correlation, whatsoever, with her own. As seen, she treats them like fodder, and was not very surprised when the two of them lost.

She has all three types of haki, and is basically a veteran in the new world. Just to boot, she's beautiful. Don't take this to heart, but being that gorgeous, in a world full of strong freaks? You know she'd have to be the best of the best. Just look at the treatment she was given in Impel Down, and take away those gates, and all the guards. That's what it would be like every single day, in the new world.

This is really a toss-up. Both have great hype, both of them have all three types of haki, and can utilize all of them, and the only thing Doflamingo has on her is taking down Smoker. While you could say kicking multiple pacifistas heads off, leisurely, is as much as a solid feat, I'll just leave it at this.

Now about the hype she was given.

Sengoku was fucking nervous at Hancock not coming and being on their side, so much so, that he decided to send a prominent Vice Admiral with a war ship, to her island.

Hancock made Momonga stab his fucking hand, and he stood there like a bitch and left. If it was Jinbei attacking him, he'd just attack him, but analyzing the situation, he left, which was a wise decision.

Hancock's kick to Smoker was like a "back the fuck off or I'll be serious next time" as she didn't want her title revoked. 

I might be forgetting some hype, but it's definitely not clear who wins.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Feb 10, 2013)

> and was not very surprised when the two of them lost.



Meh, that's not true she was quite surprised when they lost, and why would she set up a public execution and not be surprised when the prisoner get's free? 




> I guess Garp must be Enel tier because his two main subordinates are Helmeppo and Coby


.


Um no, that would be like comparing the chore boy shanks as a true subordinate of Roger, he was just an apprentice to Roger. Same thing applies to pre-skip Coby and Helmeppo. 



> and is basically a veteran in the new world.




.....no, I think you need to re-define your definition of a new world veteran. Which is someone who has stayed in the new world for an extended period of time, there's no indication that Hancock's even been into the new world, let alone stay there for a long period of time. 




> Don't take this to heart, but being that gorgeous, in a world full of strong freaks? You know she'd have to be the best of the best.



You really don't have to be the best of best to retain beauty and be strong in the new world. I really don't know where you got that one from...



> Just look at the treatment she was given in Impel Down, and take away those gates, and all the guards. That's what it would be like every single day, in the new world.



You mean 'hurr durr lol tits'? I just thought that was Oda being funny, and if this really is a serious point almost any warlord would have been given that privileged. If anything because the guards were gaping over Hancock we didn't get the impression that she was a truly fearful character, it could have been done better. If instead the guards were shitting bricks just being near her or giving her dirty looks as she walked passed, then I would I've given her Kudo's. 



> Hancock made Momonga stab his fucking hand, and he stood there like a bitch and left. If it was Jinbei attacking him, he'd just attack him, but analyzing the situation, he left, which was a wise decision.



Really stabbing his hand made him look like a bitch? Hmm if that's the way you look at it ... But if Jinbe was in the same sitaution he wouldn't attack him, again using force to bring a warlord to Marine HQ is just downright silly. 



> Hancock's kick to Smoker was like a "back the fuck off or I'll be serious next time" as she didn't want her title revoked.



Meh, I'll give you that one, but really its pre-skip Smoker. Not impressive in the slightest. So I don't really care.


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## convict (Feb 10, 2013)

I was meaning to let this thread lie as I have said all I need on the matter, but this post is so mind-numbingly appalling I can't help but reply.



> So the subordinates strength = the leader's strength. If only we had all thought of this sooner.
> 
> I guess Garp must be Enel tier because his two main subordinates are Helmeppo and Coby.



Good grief have you not been catching up? Read up on all that was mentioned and reply to that. Don't just fixate yourself on an argument without acknowledging the intricacies. I mentioned there are exceptions but there is an obvious correlation. It is not the be-all-end-all argument but a mere contributing factor. There are an overwhelming number of cases that support what I say compared to the few that don't. To start with, Buggy and Mohji, Kuro and Jango/Nyaban, Krieg and Pearl, Arlong and Hachi and this is just East Blue. 

And seriously using Garp? What a terrible example. Helmeppo and Coby are not his strongest subordinates. They were rookies on his deck. Bogart would be the one to put forward but we do not know exactly how strong he is.



> She has all three types of haki, and is basically a veteran in the new world. Just to boot, she's beautiful.



What veteran of the New World? She resides in Amazon Lily in the calm belt on the side of paradise. Compare that to the active underground kingpin of the New World. 



> Don't take this to heart, but being that gorgeous, in a world full of strong freaks? You know she'd have to be the best of the best. Just look at the treatment she was given in Impel Down, and take away those gates, and all the guards. That's what it would be like every single day, in the new world.



Of all the ridiculous and downright terrible arguments I have seen in my time, this is close to taking the cake. She is amazingly strong, compared to the likes of Doflamingo, in part because she has survived despite being beautiful? Really? On top of this I have to mention that she is pretty strong in part _because_ of her beauty. Her beauty is a great asset not a handicap. And on top of that talking about the New World as if she resides there.



> the only thing Doflamingo has on her is taking down Smoker.



Annihilating Smoker, not just taking him down. Apart from that, he was also sitting casually twiddling his fingers and treating Vice Admirals like babies, while Momonga, even though at her mercy, was able to resist her charms to an extent through his own ingenuity and will. Against Doflamingo only a manipulation of fingers is needed for him to be a doll. Doflamingo also turned a WB commander into his toy and then he even managed to restrain Jozu. Forget about the fact that he caught Jozu from behind - I know that - the very fact that he could restrain such a force is incredible.



> While you could say kicking multiple pacifistas heads off, leisurely, is as much as a solid feat, I'll just leave it at this.



Unbelievable. You are comparing the annihilation of the Vice Admiral Smoker - within seconds - to the destruction of a couple of Pacifistas? _Really?_ Before the TS I recall people harped on about this and I would acknowledge it but now we know that is not an amazing feat in the big leagues, especially since they were programmed not to attack her. Sanji broke a Pacifista's neck with a single kick and Zoro did not even use a special attack to cleanly cut through one. And you are comparing wrecking a couple of Pacifistas to the desecration of a Vice Admiral?



> Sengoku was fucking nervous at Hancock not coming and being on their side, so much so, that he decided to send a prominent Vice Admiral with a war ship, to her island.



As I said this proves she is strong and a worthy asset to the marines not that she can rival someone as incredible as Doflamingo. Sengoku was desperate to get help from any means and therefore he was willing to send a Vice Admiral to bring her in. This was the ruler of the seas he was facing and he mentioned that there were no guarantees that the marines would survive. You could witness his desperation seeing how he was fervently thinking about keeping Jinbei locked, and then seeing his expression when Jinbei resigned. 



> Hancock made Momonga stab his fucking hand, and he stood there like a bitch and left. If it was Jinbei attacking him, he'd just attack him, but analyzing the situation, he left, which was a wise decision.



Still not as impressive as the way Doflamingo treats Vice Admirals. And I like how you know exactly what Momonga would have done in Jinbei's case. You seem to be the leading expert on the matter. Especially since Momonga's purpose would be to bring an ally not a damn prisoner.



> Hancock's kick to Smoker was like a "back the fuck off or I'll be serious next time" as she didn't want her title revoked.



Hancock had absolutely no qualm attacking and destroying marines. She was doing it for the heck of it anyway without them even attacking her. Smoker hurt her beloved; he basically did the unspeakable and she was absolutely enraged at him and even mentioned that she would erase him. There was no reason whatsoever for her to hold back unless it would take more than a little effort to deal with him. And this was before he was a Vice Admiral or could use Haki. Against Sentomaru, she was obviously winning as he seemed to be panting, yet we both know she is stronger than him and the fact that she hadn't already defeated him easily by then shows that she is weaker than Doflamingo who was treating people who should be on a similar level to Sentomaru like gnats. 

He is clearly noticeably superior both through hype and through feats. This revelation of his CoC is just icing on the cake and I have no doubt whatsoever that he would defeat her without too much difficulty.


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## Jinemba (Feb 10, 2013)

You guys mean the Hancock that had a good little spar with PRE TIME SKIP Smoker and did no serious damage and the Doflamingo that put POST TIME SKIP Smoker down like he wasn't even at a level high enough to approach him yet?

The feats say it all people...

Boa Hancock:
1. Boa has clashed with pre-time skip Smoker, Smoker was able to survive with no major injuries and the length of their clash was long enough to be shown a bit.

2. Boa has destroyed some pacifistas, something Post-Skip Luffy did with ease making this not even a feat for someone as experienced as Boa.

3. She had a vice admiral level fighter stopped in his tracks which he broke out of by taking a relatively small by OP standards injury.

-----None of this is impressive, someone of her title and experience shouldn't even be doing any of this still. Current Luffy could do all of this with ease.



Donquixote Doflamingo:
1.Tore Post-time skip Smoker up, Smoker only survived because of a small plot armor of his. Because of the role he plays as Luffy's nemesis. Flamingo did this so quick that it wasn't even worth a scene, he took no damage and there was no back and forth, Smoker level fighters aren't even strong enough to get a scene with Flamingo.

2. Froze a low top tier in his tracks, he took the 3rd strongest fighter in the strongest crew in the world and TOYED with him. Jozu was strong enough to give an Admiral some problems and he got toyed with by Flamingo. And don't say Flamingo didn't do anything because that was his choice, one he had Jozu under his control there were options open to him for killing of Jozu like he was a no named chump.

----These are actual impressive feats especially the second one. To this point Doflamingo has never gotten a fight out of anyone who has stepped up to him or who he has stepped up to. Whether they where Vice Admiral level, Whether they were very low Admiral level no one has been able to make Flamingo make a fight out of it. He has fought people with haki, he has fought people with logia powers he has fought people with top tier physical strength and he has fought people with the title of warlord just like him. None of that pushed him to do more than wiggle his fingers.

Flamingo beats Boa with honestly, as extreme as it sounds it really is no difficulty at all. We have not seen what is difficult for Flamingo and we have seen him confront Jozu who would beat Boa. Why would Boa be any more difficult than that?


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## Shinryu (Feb 10, 2013)

Doflamingo blitzes her/rips her to pieces


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## Guybot2 (Feb 12, 2013)

Doflamingo and Hancock have yet to go all out.. we cant judge what they do if they went all out..

we will see both of them all out eventually...


Right now, its all wanking..


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## Fomor214 (Feb 12, 2013)

Doflamingo > Hancock. I think both of them are exceptional warlords proven by the fact that they have CotC, but Doflamingo simply has better feats and hype.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Feb 12, 2013)

based on op female handling, i'd wager don beating hancock. it's just like how big mom will be the weakest emperor; hancock is the weakest shichibukai we've yet to see everything from. basically...mihak>don>hancock...and the other shc rank don't matter in comparing since we've seen their junk.

in any case, both don and hancock should still be able to dominate luffy in a straight fight.


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## Mihawk (Feb 14, 2013)

Doflamingo takes this high diff. 

It seems that for Mero Mero Mellow to work, Hancock needs to catch her opponent in the heart loop projection. That is what she did to Momonga, to Margaret, and what she attempted to do with Luffy. 

Her other assets of strength are Perfume Fleur, which is her main physical ability, used in conjunction with the nature of her DF, which turns people to stone upon contact of her legs, and used to easily one shot several Pacifistas, in a row. Then there is Slave Arrow, which is no big deal to get away from, or use CoA to counter with, for any top tier. 

Doflamingo can definitely get away from Mero Mero Mellow, since as I said before, Hancock needs to catch someone in the loop in front of her for it to work. It should be no problem for Doflamingo to get away from it.

Pistol Kiss & Perfume Fleur are her best bets at hurting him, as Pistol Kiss is actually used along with CoA, although it is quite possible that Doflamingo's own CoA is stronger, which means he can likely counter it just fine, it if comes to that. Perfume Fleur is her most deadly way to attack Doflamingo, but Doflamingo can definitely get away from her kicking range, using his wires to navigate in mid-air.


Due to the nature of Hancock's haxx, and the way she can potentially cause damage over time by turning body parts into crumbling stone, the best case scenario is for Doflamingo to be agile and ninja by dodging her kicks, arrows, and Mero Mero Mellows, while slowly wearing her down and cutting her with his strings, although Hancock her self will not be just standing around either.

 It would basically boil down to both of them trying to outmaneuver, outpace, and overwhelm each other, while also trying to open windows of opportunities in order to catch each other off guard. 

Doflamingo takes this high diff.


Hancock is no joke in a fight.


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## zorokuma (Feb 14, 2013)

ha, dofla looks like a perv.

hancock takes this 0 diff


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## Mihawk (Feb 14, 2013)

^lol you missed the whole point of the thread, unless you are just joking  

if not...


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## SunRise (Feb 15, 2013)

*Doflαmingo*, only because "tiers" he doesn't must automatically got problems in beating her


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## zorokuma (Feb 15, 2013)

Doflαmingo said:


> ^lol you missed the whole point of the thread, unless you are just joking
> 
> if not...



its a joke dont worry lol

but i think we should wait to see both character's limits before concluding.


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## Lawliet (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm not sure, but I don't think Hancock has anything that could pawn a VA just like that, except her stone thing.

Dofla just literally messed up Smoker's face.


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