# Post TS Zoro vs Ace



## Explicit Sin (Dec 19, 2012)

Current Zoro takes on Ace

Location: Alabasta
Distance: 50 meters
SOM: IC
No restrictions


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## Language of Life (Dec 20, 2012)

I want to think that Zoro has the capability to deal with Ace by now. Nonetheless, Ace has the pure AOE to take Zoro out before he can land a significant Haki cut.

My only problems here is we have no indication as to how strong Ace's haki was so we don't know how well he can handle Zoro's haki attacks. I don't know if they would go straight through him like Marco and Vista's hits on Akainu or if they would do some significant damage. I think Zoro has better speed feats, so if his haki is good enough he could take out Ace before he finishes him off. 
Then again i have an even bigger problem with the lack of feats we have with Zoro. He has not shown the AOE to compete with, or the speed to dodge attacks on the level and size of Hiken and Entei. He could probably blow away part and tank the rest of Hiken, but i doubt he could do the same with Entei.

Overall, i say Ace wins.


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## Shinryu (Dec 20, 2012)

Ace wins if he uses Dai Enkai


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## TrainerRed (Dec 20, 2012)

Luffy's CoA couldn't protect him from Hody's jaws so it right to assume Zoro has novice level haki too but his beastly strength makes up for that. If his haki game was better Zoro would win with high-diff but at his current level I doubt Ace's body would register most of the cuts. Higher CoA can cancel out a weaker one as demonstrated when Marco and Vista attack Akainu, so Zoro attack's effectiveness would be reduced significantly.


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## Ceasar Drake (Dec 20, 2012)

Luffy was in water his haki would have been mitigated to a certain extent. 
I'm a firm believer of zoro being faster than Ace


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## Shinthia (Dec 20, 2012)

Ace takes this with high to xtrm diff


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## TrainerRed (Dec 20, 2012)

Elixir of Immortality said:


> Luffy was in water his haki would have been mitigated to a certain extent.
> I'm a firm believer of zoro being faster than Ace



Wasn't Luffy was inside his bubble when Hody mauled his shoulder?


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## Sanji (Dec 20, 2012)

Ace High Diff. Luffy and Ace should be around the same level right now (IMO Luffy edges out Ace by a bit) and assuming Zoro has novice level haki, he's gunna have far more trouble than Luffy would.


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## Zooted (Dec 20, 2012)

Ace wins high-extreme


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## Extravlad (Dec 20, 2012)

Ace mid or high diff.

Ace > Current Luffy > Current Zoro.


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## Jay. (Dec 20, 2012)

Zoro wins this.


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## RF (Dec 20, 2012)

I agree with Jay,Zoro wins unless Ace uses Entei before Zoro finishes him.Although it won't be easy.Extreme difficulty.


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## TrainerRed (Dec 20, 2012)

^^^ You agree with anyone for rep points. pfft 

Anyways Aces Hikens the shit out of Zoro...


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## God Movement (Dec 20, 2012)

Ace's bounty is 550 million. Kid's bounty is 485 million despite the fact that he's the captain of his crew and Ace isn't, which is pretty much confirmed as meaning your bounty is intentionally limited. Zoro is weaker than Kid. As such Ace > Zoro, yep.


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## B Rabbit (Dec 20, 2012)

Oda did say that Bounty doesn't correlate to strenght.

However it does show who's more dangerous. Which sometimes correlates to strenght.


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## God Movement (Dec 20, 2012)

Did he? Because it's usually a pretty good indicator, and when your bounty is 550 million and you're not even the captain it's a REALLY good indicator. I mean Zoro's bounty is what, 120 million? Despite the fact that he's nearly equal to Luffy. If that doesn't make clear how strong Ace is then nothing does.


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## B Rabbit (Dec 20, 2012)

I think he stated it in a SBS corner. In one of the earlier volumes. I know he did because there was once a huge issue over it at Arlong Park a couple years back. 

However I have to agree with you. I think Oda only said that bounty doesn't correlate to strength to show that someone can be powerful, and not have one.


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## Mike S (Dec 20, 2012)

Ace takes it, high difficulty.


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## Coruscation (Dec 20, 2012)

> when your bounty is 550 million and you're not even the captain it's a REALLY good indicator



Ace was a captain for like two years on his own. Remember that Luffy got a 400 million bounty in 6 months and Ace's growth/potential was pretty much on par with Luffy's. Ace most likely got most of his bounty before joining the WBs, and after he did, the government found out that he was Roger's son + he joined the most powerful pirate crew in the world so that should account for the rest.

Ace is not like Zoro and Killer who were always subordinates. Being in an Emperor's crew probably gives a big boost in itself.


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## redhawk35 (Dec 20, 2012)

RedDogAkainu said:


> Luffy's CoA couldn't protect him from Hody's jaws so it right to assume Zoro has novice level haki too but his beastly strength makes up for that. If his haki game was better Zoro would win with high-diff but at his current level I doubt Ace's body would register most of the cuts. Higher CoA can cancel out a weaker one as demonstrated when Marco and Vista attack Akainu, so Zoro attack's effectiveness would be reduced significantly.



The reason luffys haki wasnt able to tank hordys jaws was he had taken so much steroids. in the past luffy nealy lost his arm to arlong who was weaker than hordy without the steroid. i know luffy strength would of increased over the course of the series but seriously if luffy was able to tank that that amazing. when each steriod is taken it doubles your strenght hordy who was a fishmen being ten times stronger than human had taken hand fulls of drugs so if luffy was able to come out in one piece from that amazing


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## Jay. (Dec 20, 2012)

Ace is dead



Zoro still wins this.


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## God Movement (Dec 20, 2012)

Coruscation said:


> Ace was a captain for like two years on his own. Remember that Luffy got a 400 million bounty in 6 months and Ace's growth/potential was pretty much on par with Luffy's. Ace most likely got most of his bounty before joining the WBs, and after he did, the government found out that he was Roger's son + he joined the most powerful pirate crew in the world so that should account for the rest.
> 
> Ace is not like Zoro and Killer who were always subordinates. Being in an Emperor's crew probably gives a big boost in itself.



True. But where Ace was a captain for some of the time, Kid was a captain for ALL of the time and he's still at a lesser number. That also has to be taken into account. Plus we're talking about exponential increases here, it's apparently incredibly hard to increase when you're over 300, that must mean that the 70 million gap Ace has on Kid is far more significant than it appears on the surface. Sure enough, Luffy was inactive and that's why he's only at 400, but Kid wasn't inactive and he still only has 85 on Luffy, plus the cruelty element that had him above Luffy pre-skip. That adds testament to how difficulty it is to increase further over 300 million and makes  Ace's bounty all the more impressive.


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## Language of Life (Dec 20, 2012)

redhawk35 said:


> The reason luffys haki wasnt able to tank hordys jaws was he had taken so much steroids. in the past luffy nealy lost his arm to arlong who was weaker than hordy without the steroid. i know luffy strength would of increased over the course of the series but seriously if luffy was able to tank that that amazing. when each steriod is taken it doubles your strenght hordy who was a fishmen being ten times stronger than human had taken hand fulls of drugs so if luffy was able to come out in one piece from that amazing



Oda specifically used that moment to show us a weakness in Luffy's haki defense. Sharp, tearing, or cutting objects are things he has a difficult time defending with using his level of Haki. The attack was stronger because of the steroids, but Luffy would have probably been hurt, just to a smaller extent, even if Hody was not roided up.


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## B Rabbit (Dec 20, 2012)

God Movement said:


> True. But where Ace was a captain for some of the time, Kid was a captain for ALL of the time and he's still at a lesser number. That also has to be taken into account. Plus we're talking about exponential increases here, it's apparently incredibly hard to increase when you're over 300, that must mean that the 70 million gap Ace has on Kid is far more significant than it appears on the surface. Sure enough, Luffy was inactive and that's why he's only at 400, but Kid wasn't inactive and he still only has 85 on Luffy, plus the cruelty element that had him above Luffy pre-skip. That adds testament to how difficulty it is to increase further over 300 million and makes  Ace's bounty all the more impressive.



However, you also have to remember that Ace was Gold Roger's son. That alone is 100 mil.


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## God Movement (Dec 20, 2012)

That's a slightly... arbitrary figure


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## B Rabbit (Dec 20, 2012)

Probably.


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## Shingy (Dec 20, 2012)

Ace wins with mid-high difficulty.

Ace is stronger than the VA's.


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## Coruscation (Dec 20, 2012)

> But where Ace was a captain for some of the time, Kid was a captain for ALL of the time and he's still at a lesser number.



Yeah, but Kid also isn't Roger's son. I think in an alternate universe where the WG learned tomorrow that Kid is the son of the Pirate King, it's not a bad bet at all that his bounty would jump up nicely.

Again: Luffy at 400 after _six months_. Ace, equally outrageous as Luffy, at 550 million after what? We don't know but he was a captain for about two years and after that, he became a member of an Emperor's crew and the WG learned that he was Roger's son. Ace's bounty doesn't imply anything like what you tried to imply it does. What do you think Luffy's bounty will be in 1 1/2 years in universe time when he has been around as long as Ace?



> it's apparently incredibly hard to increase when you're over 300, that must mean that the 70 million gap Ace has on Kid is far more significant than it appears on the surface.



Not really. Kid has a *150 million* gap over Hawkins and they are both above 300. Bounties are still very flexible. I side with Ace over Kid currently but this isn't the point. Point was that the original argument you tried to make isn't good. You want to make the argument that Ace > Kid then Ace being longer on the seas is what you want. From there you can go Ace > Kid => Zoro and thus Ace > Zoro.


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## Mike S (Dec 20, 2012)

Am I the only one who keeps getting side tracked by Jay's sig?


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## God Movement (Dec 20, 2012)

Coruscation said:


> Yeah, but Kid also isn't Roger's son. I think in an alternate universe where the WG learned tomorrow that Kid is the son of the Pirate King, it's not a bad bet at all that his bounty would jump up nicely.



Then surely, Luffy's bounty should have jumped up nicely as a result of being Dragon's son? That is also a well known fact. Yet it did NOT at least to the extent you're trying to say Ace's would have increased as a result of being Roger's son. I mean, it jumped 100 million since it was revealed, but Luffy also took down Moria, tore shit up in the war and helped Roger's son escape, when you subtract all of that from the total... it becomes much less significant, doesn't it?



> Again: Luffy at 400 after _six months_. Ace, equally outrageous as Luffy, at 550 million after what? We don't know but he was a captain for about two years and after that, he became a member of an Emperor's crew and the WG learned that he was Roger's son. Ace's bounty doesn't imply anything like what you tried to imply it does. What do you think Luffy's bounty will be in 1 1/2 years in universe time when he has been around as long as Ace?



Higher, if only because he's not under anyone else so there's absolutely nothing limiting his rate of growth. Anyway, it took Ace 3 years to get a bounty of 550 million, Kid has been around for roughly the same time frame, give or take a few months. He's at 485 and he's NOT a sub-ordinate. Kid's bounty should be a decent indicator of what Luffy's would be even if he was active for the same amount of time seeing as they both have SIMILAR bounty growth rates from what we can see.



> Not really. Kid has a *150 million* gap over Hawkins and they are both above 300. Bounties are still very flexible. I side with Ace over Kid currently but this isn't the point. Point was that the original argument you tried to make isn't good. You want to make the argument that Ace > Kid then Ace being longer on the seas is what you want. From there you can go Ace > Kid => Zoro and thus Ace > Zoro.



Hawkins has been fairly quiet at sea unlike Kid and Ace, which is reflected in his bounty. I mean Scratchmen passed him by, that pretty much explains that.


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## Coruscation (Dec 20, 2012)

> Then surely, Luffy's bounty should have jumped up nicely as a result of being Dragon's son? That is also a well known fact. Yet it did NOT



Roger's son is worse than Dragon's son. A lot worse. Luffy's bounty went from 300 to 400 million (*keeping in mind that it's harder after 300, like you said yourself*) without his strength increasing at all partly because he was Dragon's son.



> Anyway, it took Ace 3 years to get a bounty of 550 million, Kid has been around for roughly the same time frame, give or take a few months. He's at 485 and he's NOT a sub-ordinate. Kid's bounty should be a decent indicator of what Luffy's would be even if he was active for the same amount of time seeing as they both have SIMILAR bounty growth rates from what we can see.



You don't know how long it took for Ace to get that bounty. Last 1/2 years he obviously wasn't getting any increases since he was hunting Blackbeard. Like I said, most likely he got most of it before even becoming a WB pirate, meaning one and a half to two years.

Kid and Luffy similar bounty growth rates? What manga are you reading? Luffy was 17 years old and had 400 million on his head after only a few months on the seas. Kid was 21 years and had 315 million on his head. That's an 85 million difference, past the 300 mark. You were saying one post ago that a "70 million gap ... (is) far more significant than it appears". And if you're implying that Luffy's bounty would only have gone up 85 million from him rampaging in the New World for two years straight, I must believe you're trying your best to troll me.



> Hawkins has been fairly quiet at sea unlike Kid and Ace, which is reflected in his bounty.



Uh-huh. Now you start rationalizing the difference? But when I do the same (for a difference not even half as big) it doesn't count? 

Just realize already that you're not making a good argument here. Bounties are screwed up. You jumped the gun trying to imply that Ace being a subordinate somehow meant something, but you overlooked how he most likely got most of the bounty as a captain and that what happened afterward was him 1. Being revealed as the son of the Pirate king and 2. Joining the strongest man's crew.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 20, 2012)

When Zoro learns Kinemons swordsmanship when he goes to Wano he wins no doubt. 

Intil then toss up leaning towards Ace.



God Movement said:


> Did he? Because it's usually a pretty good indicator, and when your bounty is 550 million and you're not even the captain it's a REALLY good indicator. I mean Zoro's bounty is what, 120 million? Despite the fact that he's nearly equal to Luffy. If that doesn't make clear how strong Ace is then nothing does.



Bounty=/=Strength.


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## God Movement (Dec 20, 2012)

Coruscation said:


> Roger's son is worse than Dragon's son. A lot worse. Luffy's bounty went from 300 to 400 million (*keeping in mind that it's harder after 300, like you said yourself*) without his strength increasing at all partly because he was Dragon's son.



Yes, we're considering threat here - not strength. And as such you have to take into account everything else I said, Moria, freeing Ace etc... and no, no it isn't. Especially when we have a situation where the World's Strongest Man and Roger's rival had a LESS bounty than Luffy's father.



> You don't know how long it took for Ace to get that bounty. Last 1/2 years he obviously wasn't getting any increases since he was hunting Blackbeard. Like I said, most likely he got most of it before even becoming a WB pirate, meaning one and a half to two years.
> 
> Kid and Luffy similar bounty growth rates? What manga are you reading? Luffy was 17 years old and had 400 million on his head after only a few months on the seas. Kid was 21 years and had 315 million on his head. That's an 85 million difference, past the 300 mark. You were saying one post ago that a "70 million gap ... (is) far more significant than it appears". And if you're implying that Luffy's bounty would only have gone up 85 million from him rampaging in the New World for two years straight, I must believe you're trying your best to troll me.



Indeed, and that supports my bounty argument, and not yours.

Excluding the war of course, which Kid was not involved in, which was a major drive for any bounty increases. You're completely missing the point. IF Kid was involved in the war he'd see a similar increase, so if we're comparing both Luffy and Kid's bounty growth rates we can ignore that. We can use Kid as a mold for Luffy excluding events like the war. Luffy's bounty would have gone up by an amount equal to Kid's 170 million increase taking into account the increasing difficulty the higher you go above 300. And no I'm not, because the idea is the higher you go above 300 million the harder it is to increase. It's harder to get from 380 to 400 than it is to get from 360 to 380.



> Just realize already that you're not making a good argument here. Bounties are screwed up. You jumped the gun trying to imply that Ace being a subordinate somehow meant something, but you overlooked how he most likely got most of the bounty as a captain and that what happened afterward was him 1. Being revealed as the son of the Pirate king and 2. Joining the strongest man's crew.



No, I didn't. And it still DOES mean something. Admittedly, not as much as I initially claimed, but to say it's redundant is laughable.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Bounty=/=Strength.



I am fully aware. But it's a decent enough indicator.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 20, 2012)

^Not decent enough to make a argument over it.

Bounty involves a lot of factors a small portion of that being Strength. 

Ace was a captain, then white-beard commander, and was rogers son. 

Zoro is a fighter in luffys crew.

Its going to be a dame long time before Zoro gets into the 500 million bounty range and by that time he will probably be a top tier aka could fodderize Ace.


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## Hullo (Dec 20, 2012)

Ace takes it high diff


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## Lycka (Dec 20, 2012)

Completly agree 101% with God Movement. caribou > sanji and zoro


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## Furinji Saiga (Dec 20, 2012)

Bounty means shit, lets compare feats guys. 

Right now we know Zoro can imbue Haki into flying slashes, I think that will be a key part of Zoro's strategy against Ace. 

Until I see more feats from Zoro, I will give this to Ace extreme difficulty, though I'm confident when he finally goes out in the coming arcs, his feats will shit on Ace's.


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## Impact (Dec 21, 2012)

Ace takes this with mid diff


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## Shinthia (Dec 21, 2012)

IMO,
Those who r off paneled character their Bounty is only thing to Hype them . Ace has by far the best bounty shown in OP. I think thats something to be considered.

Btw, i am not sure if it was only on Anime or not. But after taking down Doma at NW some fodder said something like "hai Ace ur bounty gonna rise again " . That means Ace increase his bounty at least 2 time while being with WB ( not because of being Roger's son )


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## Kishido (Dec 21, 2012)

Ace wins high dif


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## Imagine (Dec 21, 2012)

Could possibly go either way. The distance and Ace being a logia with logia dispersion and such favors him. Ace has the superior stamina as well. I'm leaning towards him with high - extreme diff.


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## mido (Dec 21, 2012)

why does ace have the 'superior stamina' ?

as far as i can remember 2 hits of bb shocked ace pretty well

zoro has better stamina and strenght feats

for haki we will never know..


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## Imagine (Dec 21, 2012)

mido said:


> why does ace have the 'superior stamina' ?
> 
> as far as i can remember 2 hits of bb shocked ace pretty well
> 
> ...


> He fought against Jinbei for 5 days straight. 

> Ace doesn't use physical strength in his fights. 

> Teach is a physical powerhouse.


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## tupadre97 (Dec 21, 2012)

Ace wins high difficulty.


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## zorokuma (Dec 21, 2012)

yea ace fought for 5 days.

but zoro took luffy's fatigue and his own.

so i dont see ace as having more stamina. equal for the most.

feats wise zoro is faster.

overall destructive power i give to ace.

physical to zoro.

skill = equal.

overall - I see Zoro taking the win here.


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## Kaiser (Dec 21, 2012)

Ace high difficulty


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## Imagine (Dec 21, 2012)

zorokuma said:


> yea ace fought for 5 days.
> 
> but zoro took luffy's fatigue and his own.
> 
> ...


You're kidding me. Zoro is not faster. And where do you get taking in Luffy's fatigue = fighting for 5 days straight?


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## zorokuma (Dec 21, 2012)

Imagine said:


> You're kidding me. Zoro is not faster. And where do you get taking in Luffy's fatigue = fighting for 5 days straight?



what speed feats ace has that bests zoro's attack speed? 


and being able to take luffy's fatigue and his own shows how great zoro's stamina is, and that was preskip. it shows that it would take a lot to take him down.  ace's 5 day fight was off panel so its mostly just hype.

I consider it equal in my opinion.  zoro's best quality is his stamina.


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## Shinthia (Dec 21, 2012)

@zorokuma
Zoro taking Luffys fatigue cant be used in a battle as a stamina feat. Zoro was unable to fight or no longar had the strengh to fight b4 taking the fatigue.
But Ace fought Jinbei for straight 5 days and still had enough stamina to stand up to WB.

And if u look down this stamina feat just because it is off panal than i believe u think Aokiji or Akainous stamina is equal to zoro cause they did not take luffys fatigue.


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## Imagine (Dec 22, 2012)

zorokuma said:


> what speed feats ace has that bests zoro's attack speed?
> 
> 
> and being able to take luffy's fatigue and his own shows how great zoro's stamina is, and that was preskip. it shows that it would take a lot to take him down.  ace's 5 day fight was off panel so its mostly just hype.
> ...


Ace intercepted a magma fist from Akainu at the last moment while he was on the ground, like hell Zoro is faster than Ace.

And no the 5 day fight was not all hype. The dialogue bubbles clearly said that they fought for 5 days straight with Ace being the victor. That's a stamina feat. And you can't just brush it off as your opinion when we both have stamina feats from both fighters. Ace's stamina feats are better.


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## redhawk35 (Dec 22, 2012)

ace would min med diff


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## redhawk35 (Dec 22, 2012)

Language of Life said:


> Oda specifically used that moment to show us a weakness in Luffy's haki defense. Sharp, tearing, or cutting objects are things he has a difficult time defending with using his level of Haki. The attack was stronger because of the steroids, but Luffy would have probably been hurt, just to a smaller extent, even if Hody was not roided up.[/
> 
> the steroids doubled his strength each time. if he took 1 steroid he would have the strenght of 20 men he took hand fulls and you expect luffy to block with his haki this was a superior attack.


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## RF (Dec 22, 2012)

Imagine said:


> Ace intercepted a magma fist from Akainu at the last moment while he was on the ground, like hell Zoro is faster than Ace.



Speculation at its best. Akainu didn't use Soru or any kind of enhanced movement,he just jumped and Ace interfered. It is impressive,however there is absolutely no proof that Zoro couldn't do that as well. He apparently has fishman level speed *IN WATER* so I am 100% sure he could have done the same.


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## zorokuma (Dec 22, 2012)

dont get me wrong guys I dont think ace's 5 day feat is not impressive because it was of panel.

I just think that zoro being able to take all that damage and live PRE skip shows that it will take a lot to put him down.  and i believe this is a better advantage than ace's 5 day feat since the fight isnt gonna last that long anyway....gonna more than likely finish within a day.  but because of how impressive the feat is none the less, I gave them a tie in endurance.





ps: just because zoro never had to fight for 5 days straight, and probably never will, doesnt mean he cannot.


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## mido (Dec 22, 2012)

we have to distinguish
there are 2 types of stamina/endurance

-> ace had energy left after a 5 day brawl vs jimbei 
+ he/they did not look fucked up seriously like aokiji after his fight with akainu or zoro after pain bubble
to me they looked more like they were out of breath

-> zoro took luffy's whole pain in one shot which has nothing to do with what ace prooved in his 5 day battle

we don't know if ace in the same situation as zoro would've been K.O.


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## Whimsy (Dec 22, 2012)

mido said:


> we have to distinguish
> there are 2 types of stamina/endurance
> 
> -> ace had energy left after a 5 day brawl vs jimbei
> ...



Of course Ace could take it, he's post-skip level.


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## DoflaMihawk (Dec 22, 2012)

I give Ace the benefit of the doubt over Luffy, so it's the same with Zoro.


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## Shinryu (Dec 22, 2012)

Zoro can slice fire now he takes this unless Ace uses his island buster


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## Shinthia (Dec 22, 2012)

@ChaosX7
where did u get the idea Zoro can cut fire.


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## Last shinobi (Dec 22, 2012)

ChaosX7 said:


> Zoro can slice fire now he takes this unless Ace uses his island buster



well ace has a island range move, why wouldnt he use it?


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## RF (Dec 22, 2012)

Lionel Messi said:


> @ChaosX7
> where did u get the idea Zoro can cut fire.



Ranged slashes ?


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## KST (Dec 22, 2012)

Everybody can cut fire

Just try it for yourself with a candle and a pocketknife


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## Imagine (Dec 22, 2012)

Red Guardian said:


> Speculation at its best. Akainu didn't use Soru or any kind of enhanced movement,he just jumped and Ace interfered. It is impressive,however there is absolutely no proof that Zoro couldn't do that as well. He apparently has fishman level speed *IN WATER* so I am 100% sure he could have done the same.


How the hell is that speculation? We saw him do it. This is the same man who fought h2h with the WSM. WB was able to react and intercept Kizaru's light movement. And Ace intercepted a punch from him.

And Zoro's in water speed doesn't say anything about his land body movement speed. The bastard is just a good swimmer.

Speed is not an issue that needs to be debated here.


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## Sayonara (Dec 22, 2012)

I'd give this to Ace for now, I rekon Zoro has the power/skill to pull off a victory but not the experience. As far as we know its his first real logia opponent who unlike Monet is on similar level with dangerous fruit , while I expect Zoro haki not too shabby hes still new to it so it would be like throwing him into the deep end against Ace.


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