# French 2022 Elections



## CrownedEagle (Apr 4, 2022)

With just over two weeks to go until the April 10 first round of France's presidential election, candidates and experts alike are flagging the threat of historically low voter turnout after a race eclipsed by the war in Ukraine.

Observers differ on just how serious low turnout could prove in this race – and on which candidates could suffer most from voters staying home.
A recent poll by the BVA firm showed only 71 percent of those surveyed intended to cast a ballot in April's election. In practice, that would mean a rate of abstention similar to the first round in 2002 – 28.4 percent – the all-time record for the opening round of France’s two-round presidential vote. The abstention rate was also considered high in 2017, when 22.2 percent of registered voters stayed away.
"One could say that 70 percent turnout is an honourable score," Céline Braconnier, a professor of political science, told Philosophie Magazine last week. But "for many citizens – think about the 65 percent who abstained in the 2021 regional elections – the presidential election remains the last rampart against a complete break with voting. It's that definitive separation that is worrisome", she said.
The ins and outs of the French presidential election

Some are less concerned. "It's true, there's a risk of a drop in turnout in the presidential election for assorted reasons – the destruction of political parties on the one hand and the foregone conclusion that Macron is going to win on the other," political analyst Gérard Grunberg told Agence France-Presse this week.


"Instead of turnout around 80 percent, as is usual for a presidential election, it could be around 70 percent; but I don't think it would be a lot less, and that's still a significant rate," said Grunberg, a research director emeritus at France's National Centre for Scientific Research (CNRS). He doesn't believe the end of voter engagement is coming – "unlike most of my colleagues".
*>> France in Focus looks at the country's abstention problem*
Grunberg suggests voters are motivated by practical concerns when deciding whether to head to the polls. "People are more and more utilitarian. They vote when they are interested. And we know that the tighter [a race] is, the more people vote. So Emmanuel Macron's presumptive victory is not mobilising people," he said.
In the BVA poll, 40 percent of those intending to abstain from April's election cited "the impression that the die is cast" to justify sitting this one out, almost on par with those who feel "the election will change nothing in their daily life" at 41 percent.
Who is most likely to sit out the vote?​Macron supporters are concerned that his would-be voters might be overconfident about the result. "Historically, it is already difficult to mobilise an outgoing administration's electorate," the pollster Bruno Jeanbart told the financial daily Les Echos this week.
Macron's interior minister, Gérald Darmanin, seemed keen to sound the alarm on Thursday night, telling France 5 television: "Marine Le Pen is dangerous for the president. She can win this presidential election."
Darmanin added: "She has a strategy that looks like it's working. [Far-right rival Éric] Zemmour has made her [appear more] 'soft'."
The latest polls have Macron beating far-right National Rally leader Le Pen relatively comfortably, with between 54 and 59 percent of the vote should the two advance to the election's April 24 run-off. That duel would be a re-match of the 2017 second round. But Macron scored far higher in their previous meeting, winning with 66.1 percent to Le Pen's 33.9 five years ago.
*>> How a quirk in French voter registration drives high abstention rate*
Grunberg, for his part, believes Macron's rivals are the ones who should worry. Low turnout "will benefit Macron even more because Macron's electorate is pretty determined, especially in this period of simmering conflict. It's the others who could be telling themselves: We don't like Macron, but he's going to win and we don't know who to vote for", the analyst said.
Demographics matter, too. Le Pen and far-left candidate Jean-Luc Mélenchon have support bases that are younger and more working class than those of the other top candidates. Those two groups have historically been harder to coax to the ballot box. Le Pen and Mélenchon, each waging a third consecutive bid for France's top job, know the risks; both have been striving to boost turnout among their respective supporters.
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"That's one of the keys that could allow Jean-Luc Mélenchon to advance to the second round – if there is high working-class turnout. Because it's the working classes who abstain, disgusted by everything and with the impression that no solution will be brought to bear on their problems in these elections," Mélenchon spokesman Alexis Corbière told BFM TV on Thursday.


Peril looms elsewhere as well. The political consultant and Sciences Po professor Philippe Moreau Chevrolet on Thursday pointed to yet another factor that could thin the queues at the ballot box: Ten days after the French government lifted most of the country's Covid-19 protections, including its vaccine pass and indoor masking requirements, confirmed cases have surged to a daily average of 110,000 nationwide.
"A proliferation of Covid cases – [at] kids' schools, work, friends... – but whatever happens let's take the mask off," Moreau Chevrolet . "At this rate, the number one cause of abstention on April 10 will be Covid."
_(With AFP)_

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20220325-turnout-concerns-loom-large-for-french-presidential-election-frontrunners


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## dr_shadow (Apr 4, 2022)

Macron seems like he's done a good job?


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 5, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Macron seems like he's done a good job?


If by a good job you mean to bleed the poor dry while giving gifts  (removal of taxes, removal of major labor rights) to his Rothschild friends and the big CEO at the same time then yes he doing alright.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Informative 2 | Dislike 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 5, 2022)

CrownedEagle said:


> If by a good job you mean to bleed the poor dry while giving gifts  (removal of taxes, removal of major labor rights) to his Rothschild friends and the big CEO at the same time then yes he doing alright.



Has he been doing this to a lesser or greater extent than his recent predecessors?

Because people _always _complain that "unemployment is skyrocketing and the country is bankrupt" regardless of which country or year it is. So we gotta look at whether it is skyrocketing _more _or bankrupting _more_ than in recent comparable administrations (not in the 1950s, because global conditions were different then).

A quick look at the World Bank says that unemployment in France has actually decreased somewhat during Macron's presidency, from 9.4% in 2017 to 8.0% in 2020 (most recent year available). Income per capita is down slightly from €35,100 in 2017 to €34,700 in 2020, but that's due to the pandemic - in 2019 it was €37,000. Life expectancy is essentially unchanged bit _sliiightly_ up, from 82.576 years in 2017 to 82.578 years in 2019 (most recent year available).


But this is coming from a guy who doesn't speak French and hasn't set foot in France since 2007, so I only know what the charts tell me.


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## dergeist (Apr 5, 2022)

Macron caused the yellow vests protests by trying to punish the majority for the Paris elite. He could've localised the tax, but decided to punish the average Joe. Apart from that police blowing off protestors limbs and brutalising them was an excellent exercise in France's respect for the people.

We'll see where things go, but he has MSM on side, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

@Le Mâle-Pensant your thoughts?

Reactions: Like 1


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 5, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> regardless of which country or year it is. So we gotta look at whether it is skyrocketing _more _or bankrupting _more_ than in recent comparable administrations (not in the 1950s, because global conditions were different then).
> 
> A quick look at the World Bank says that unemployment in France has actually decreased somewhat during Macron's presidency, from 9.4% in 2017 to 8.0% in 2020 (most recent year available). Income per capita is down slightly from €35,100 in 2017 to €34,700 in 2020, but that's due to the pandemic - in 2019 it was €37,000. Life expectancy is essentially unchanged bit _sliiightly_ up, from 82.576 years in 2017 to 82.578 years in 2019 (most recent year available).


It has nothing to do with unemployment, Macron reduced and even cut the little help the poor had and gave the bosses even more power over their employees by removing certain rights on their job protections. In other words, they are trying to impose American-style hyper-liberalism where their citizens are dying and in debt even with two jobs.

He will surely be reelected but surely not for his average mandate but rather because of the poor opposition.


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## stream (Apr 5, 2022)

CrownedEagle said:


> It has nothing to do with unemployment, Macron reduced and even cut the little help the poor had and gave the bosses even more power over their employees by removing certain rights on their job protections. In other words, they are *trying to impose American-style hyper-liberalism* where their citizens are dying and in debt even with two jobs.


Ha ha. Here you have to take into account that France is one of the European countries where employees have the highest job protections. Once you have hired somebody on a permanent contract, it is much more difficult to fire them than in other European countries. For instance, it's pretty common that companies keep older employees on the job without them doing any work, because it's easier to wait until they retire than trying to fire them. If France wanted to impose American-style hyper-liberalism, they'd first have to pass half the EU countries on the way.

One of the results of these job protections is that companies can be very shy about hiring people on permanent contracts, because it is a comparatively big risk for them (and conversely, when they do give you a permanent contract, they treat you as if you should kneel to receive a gift from the gods). From my point of view, it is pretty reasonable to say that reducing job protections reduced unemployment — at the level were France was, it made it easier for companies to hire. (And here, I want to be very clear that this is a trade-off that is not worth it for every country. While I indeed think France had and maybe still has more job protections than is good, other countries don't have enough.)

From my point of view, Macron is trying to hold a center mainstream position in France. He worked to be in that place because in the French election system, that is theoretically a big advantage — it should guarantee winning the second round of voting because more than half of the country prefers him to whoever else he's running against, left or right. And I'm not sure having a centrist president is a bad thing for the country; certainly it's better than the Squid game tug-of-war happening in the US.


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## blk (Apr 5, 2022)

Hope Macron wins again 


The right wing extremists need to be kept as far away as possible from power.

Reactions: Like 1


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## dergeist (Apr 5, 2022)

blk said:


> Hope Macron wins again
> 
> 
> The right wing extremists need to be kept as far away as possible from power.



Right wing


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## blk (Apr 5, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Right wing



Yes. 

Nutjobs like Le Pen and Zemmour are dangerous for France & Europe's future.


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## dergeist (Apr 5, 2022)

blk said:


> Yes.
> 
> Nutjobs like Le Pen and Zemmour are dangerous for France & Europe's future.



Le PenI has socialist economic policies (nearly commie level)


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## stream (Apr 5, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Le PenI has socialist economic policies (nearly commie level)


She's for nationalism and protectionism, and against globalization, free trade and immigration. Some of that might be technically the same opinions as those of socialists, but essentially she's in the same line as Trump, who can't really be said to be a socialist:


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Apr 5, 2022)

Right vs right. zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Reactions: Winner 1


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## blk (Apr 5, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Le PenI has socialist economic policies (nearly commie level)



Ok but what's your point


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 5, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Le PenI has socialist economic policies (nearly commie level)


Which are there in order to get her the votes needed to enact conservative cultural goals.


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## dergeist (Apr 5, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> Which are there in order to get her the votes needed to enact conservative cultural goals.



Please, they've always been commie-like. They just have a nationalist aspect to them, like controlled borders and French values first (whatever they view that as). She will live true to both values, the socialist ones and the national ones.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 5, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Please, they've always been commie-like. They just have a nationalist aspect to them, like controlled borders and French values first (whatever they view that as). She will live true to both values (the socialist ones) and the national ones.


The Le Pen's would definitely be the first to say they've got more in common with Petain than with Stalin. More with Orban than with Xi, more with Bolsonaro than with Castillo.


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## dergeist (Apr 5, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> The Le Pen's would definitely be the first to say they've got more in common with Petain than with Stalin. More with Orban than with Xi, more with Bolsonaro than with Castillo.



Yes, mostly likely true. Although, because they still believe in getting elected to fulfil the socialist ideal and not using force


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## Hand Banana (Apr 5, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Please, they've always been commie-like. They just have a nationalist aspect to them, like controlled borders and French values first (whatever they view that as). She will live true to both values, the socialist ones and the national ones.


Le Pen is a racist bigot to the extreme. She also hates poor whites.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Friendly 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 5, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Yes, mostly likely true. Although, because they still believe in getting elected to fulfil the socialist ideal and not using force


They seek to fulfill the conservative ideal though. They don't wish for an ''equal and classless'' society. They wish for an ultra traditional society. Proletarian revolutions tend not to be ultra traditional.


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## dergeist (Apr 5, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> They seek to fulfill the conservative ideal though. They don't wish for an ''equal and classless'' society. They wish for an ultra traditional society. Proletarian revolutions tend not to be ultra traditional.



This isn't correct, they want to get to the ultimate ideal. They will get there in phases, but want to restrict it exclusively to the French. Even Marx believed it was the final stage, and you didn't get there straight away. One does not learn to run before they can walk. You also missed the part where I said she's commie-like that doesn't mean full-blown commie.



Hand Banana said:


> Le Pen is a racist bigot to the extreme. She also hates poor whites.



I see

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Van Basten (Apr 5, 2022)

Macron is the best choice of a crappy lot.

The Left needs to get it together.


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## Joe Maiafication (Apr 5, 2022)

CrownedEagle said:


> If by a good job you mean to bleed the poor dry while giving gifts  (removal of taxes, removal of major labor rights) to his Rothschild friends and the big CEO at the same time then yes he doing alright.



Sound so familiar.
Nobles don't need to pay the taxes.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Mider T (Apr 6, 2022)

@Le Mâle-Pensant you alive buddy?


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## t0xeus (Apr 6, 2022)

Zemmour


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## Mider T (Apr 6, 2022)

t0xeus said:


> Zemmour


Are you just going from thread to thread praising the worst respective option for a reaction?


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## t0xeus (Apr 6, 2022)

Mider T said:


> Are you just going from thread to thread praising the worst respective option for a reaction?


No, just showing support for my favorites.


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## Mider T (Apr 6, 2022)

t0xeus said:


> No, just showing support for my favorites.


Why are your favorites the worst options?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## t0xeus (Apr 6, 2022)

Mider T said:


> Why are your favorites the worst options?


They're not.


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## Mider T (Apr 6, 2022)

t0xeus said:


> They're not.


Okay so can you explain your reasoning instead of just name dropping bait?


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## Eros (Apr 6, 2022)

t0xeus said:


> No, just showing support for my favorites.


Are you in this section for the purpose of baiting people? Are you a 12 year old?


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## t0xeus (Apr 6, 2022)

Mider T said:


> Okay so can you explain your reasoning instead of just name dropping bait?


Orban - kinda obvious. The only one who actually cares about his nation and is not afraid to go against the mainstream to protect his nation's interests.

Zemmour - only candidate who actually wants to face the reality about the immigrant question and is not afraid to do what's needed for the greater good even if it means he will get slandered by liberal media


Eros said:


> Are you in this section for the purpose of baiting people? Are you a 12 year old?


No and no.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## JFF (Apr 8, 2022)

‘La French Tech’ Arrives Under Macron, but Proves No Panacea​The president has brought innovation, jobs and growth. Still, resentments fester on the eve of the presidential election.




PARIS — In full Steve Jobs mode, President Emmanuel Macron of France donned a black turtleneck in January and  to celebrate the creation in France of 25 “unicorn” start-ups — companies with a market value of over 1 billion euros, or almost $1.1 billion.

He declared that France’s start-up economy was “changing the lives of French people” and “strengthening our sovereignty.” It was also helping to create jobs: Unemployment has  to 7.4 percent, the lowest level in a decade.

The start-up boom was a milestone for a young president elected five years ago as a restless disrupter, promising to pry open the economy and make it competitive in the 21st century.

To some extent, Mr. Macron has succeeded, luring billions of euros in foreign investments and creating hundreds of thousands of new jobs, many in tech start-ups, in a country whose resistance to change is stubborn. But disruption is just that, and the president has at the same time left many French feeling unsettled and unhappy, left behind or ignored.

As Mr. Macron  starting on Sunday, it is two countries that will vote — a mainly urban France that sees the need for change to meet the era’s sweeping technological and economic challenges, and a France of the “periphery,” wary of innovation, struggling to get by, alarmed by immigration and resentful of a leader seen as embodying the arrogance of the privileged.

---------------------------------

France voters should remember the status quo before Macron, when the country was considered the new 'sick man' of Europe.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 8, 2022)

I got to delete a thread by @JFF!

Reactions: Funny 5 | Disagree 1


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## dergeist (Apr 8, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> I got to delete a thread by @JFF!



I was waiting for the merger, but you went for outright deletion


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## JFF (Apr 8, 2022)

dergeist said:


> I was waiting for the merger, but you went for outright deletion





JFF said:


> ‘La French Tech’ Arrives Under Macron, but Proves No Panacea​The president has brought innovation, jobs and growth. Still, resentments fester on the eve of the presidential election.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Vote for Macron

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 8, 2022)

dergeist said:


> I was waiting for the merger, but you went for outright deletion

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## RavenSupreme (Apr 9, 2022)

En Marche.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 10, 2022)

A picture says more than a thousand words.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## dergeist (Apr 10, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> A picture says more than a thousand words.



It certainly does

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## RavenSupreme (Apr 10, 2022)

dergeist said:


> It certainly does


Macron is the literal head of state on necessary visit 

Le Pen is a bought asset 

Know your stuff

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 4


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## dr_shadow (Apr 10, 2022)

dergeist said:


> It certainly does



Macron is the President of France, so it's part of his job that he needs to meet the "President of Russia" on occasion, regardless of who happens to occupy that office at the moment.

Whereas Le Pen is not a president, prime minister, speaker, or any other such official that would be "forced" to meet Putin in the line of duty if she didn't actually want to.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 10, 2022)

dergeist said:


> It certainly does


Also note the awkward facial expressions both seem to have compared to the joyful  The Stylo and Putin picture.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 10, 2022)

I keep forgetting that you guys vote twice @Le Mâle-Pensant so there’s always hope that you did a mistake on the 2nd round.


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 10, 2022)

t0xeus said:


> Orban - kinda obvious. The only one who actually cares about his nation and is not afraid to go against the mainstream to protect his nation's interests.
> 
> Zemmour - only candidate who actually wants to face the reality about the immigrant question and is not afraid to do what's needed for the greater good even if it means he will get slandered by liberal media
> 
> No and no.



There’s pretty much nothing indicating Orban cares about Hungary.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1 | Lewd 1


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## T-Bag (Apr 10, 2022)

It's time for Marine Le Pen to take the reigns.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Sad! 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 10, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Macron caused the yellow vests protests by trying to punish the majority for the Paris elite. He could've localised the tax, but decided to punish the average Joe. Apart from that police blowing off protestors limbs and brutalising them was an excellent exercise in France's respect for the people.
> 
> We'll see where things go, but he has MSM on side, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
> 
> @Le Mâle-Pensant your thoughts?


I don’t take yellow jackets seriously. 20 years of watching French news abroad has given me the sense that French unions are powerful as fuck and are experts at creating trendable/tweetable slogans that can be cookie cutted across the world.
Plus I got a sense that unions shutting down cities happen more frequently than the Olympics.

Reactions: Sad! 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 10, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> It's time for Marine Le Pen to take the reigns.


I was wondering why it took you guys so long to post here. Though most of you have been banned, so that also explains a why the Le Pen wagon is so quiet.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## blk (Apr 10, 2022)

We need a strong and united Europe right now. 

Le Pen, like other far right idiots, is blatantly Putin-leaning (and so are her associates by most chances). 

Either because she's an useful idiot, or she's close to him in ideology, or she's just in Putin's pockets. 

Not sure which one is worse, but in any case her winning would be very bad news for both french and europeans in general.


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## dergeist (Apr 10, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Macron is the President of France, so it's part of his job that he needs to meet the "President of Russia" on occasion, regardless of who happens to occupy that office at the moment.
> 
> Whereas Le Pen is not a president, prime minister, speaker, or any other such official that would be "forced" to meet Putin in the line of duty if she didn't actually want to.



So what, building relations with leaders for purposes of future development can be done by anyone. Le Pen, Macron, whomever is wholly irrelevant. 

Presidents can and do snub it her leaders, so there is no forced argument here. 



RavenSupreme said:


> Macron is the literal head of state on necessary visit
> 
> Le Pen is a bought asset
> 
> Know your stuff



Not proven and never convicted


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## T-Bag (Apr 10, 2022)

blk said:


> We need a strong and united Europe right now.
> 
> Le Pen, like other far right idiots, is blatantly Putin-leaning (and so are her associates by most chances).
> 
> ...


So what do you think happens if Le pen wins? She'll side with putin in the war?


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## blk (Apr 10, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> So what do you think happens if Le pen wins? She'll side with putin in the war?



No. 

But she will for sure weaken the union during her mandate which will indirectly help Putin. 


Also socially & economically speaking her positions are garbage. 

Now i'm not an expert on French politics, but she's clearly socially conservative in regards to multiculturalism, lgbt, etc and her economic positions are the usual anti-free market and anti-globalization bullshits (protectionism etc) of conservative parties.


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 10, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> So what do you think happens if Le pen wins? She'll side with putin in the war?



It would mean France falls into the hands of a fifth collum and that Vladimir has a tool to try and subjugate the continent.


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## T-Bag (Apr 10, 2022)

blk said:


> No.
> 
> But she will for sure weaken the union during her mandate which will indirectly help Putin.
> 
> ...


I doubt it. This is what they said about Trump too, that he'd weaken our alliances etc and all of it turned out to be bs. Le pen is not so strong to resist the pressures that come from being one of the leaders of the west so she'll be in line with majority of issues.
But anyway france could use a _little_ nationalism right now.

Reactions: Optimistic 3


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## JFF (Apr 10, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> It's time for Marine Le Pen to take the reigns.


I am usually neutral in politics, but Macron made antitrust / privacy actually happen in the EU. So yes, you got my support then  For Le Pen; I assume she is rather on the path to FExit or that direction.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Saishin (Apr 10, 2022)

blk said:


> We need a strong and united Europe right now.
> 
> Le Pen, like other far right idiots, is blatantly Putin-leaning (and so are her associates by most chances).
> 
> ...


If she win the repercussions in Europe would be serious especially in this right moment, it would be a blow into the stomach hard to digest for liberal democracies.

Europe's far-right/populists parties would be boosted from such victory and it would be a victory for Putin that for a long time supported or alledgely funded such parties to destabilize politically the old continent.

Imagine in a country like Italy where a party like FdI is at 20+% of consensus,Le Pen victory may shift the cards on the table in Italy in favor of the Italian right.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 10, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> I doubt it. This is what they said about Trump too, that he'd weaken our alliances etc and all of it turned out to be bs



Uh Trump kept making it clear how much he hated us and how we couldn’t trust him.


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## Eros (Apr 10, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> It would mean France falls into the hands of a fifth collum and that Vladimir has a tool to try and subjugate the continent.


There was someone who came close to subjugating Europe. Actually I can think of two individuals. One of them was from France. His name was Napoleon.


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## makeoutparadise (Apr 10, 2022)




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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 10, 2022)

Eros said:


> There was someone who came close to subjugating Europe. Actually I can think of two individuals. One of them was from France. His name was Napoleon.



Firstly I’d point out that Napoleon ain’t exactly Hitler. Secondly I’d point out that it’s been over 200 years since Napoleon.


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## Eros (Apr 10, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> Firstly I’d point out that Napoleon ain’t exactly Hitler. Secondly I’d point out that it’s been over 200 years since Napoleon.


Of course not. He wasn't an angel either.


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## T-Bag (Apr 10, 2022)

JFF said:


> I am usually neutral in politics, but Macron made antitrust / privacy actually happen in the EU. So yes, you got my support then  For Le Pen; I assume she is rather on the path to FExit or that direction.


I suppose that was great on his part but not sure how that will reflect on his polling today. I know he wasn't doing too good with the whole islamic terrorism situations that were repeatedly happening under his watch, and he was forced to take a more radical stance against muslims.

Then again people forget what happened yesterday and focus what's happening today. If macron is doing well with the economy in these hard times, he'll probably win again.


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 10, 2022)

Eros said:


> Of course not. He wasn't an angel either.


No but Napoleon arguably was a better man than his contemporary. Not a good man but Robespiere, George III, Alexander II, Francis I and Frederick William II all come across as worse.


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## egressmadara (Apr 10, 2022)

Relax, Macron will win


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 10, 2022)

blk said:


> No.
> 
> But she will for sure weaken the union during her mandate which will indirectly help Putin.
> 
> ...


Her party is entirely financed by Russian banks and she has openly opposed the arrival of Ukrainian refugees with Zemmour and some believe that if she is elected she will not rally with Putin ? Seriously.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 10, 2022)

Lepen and Macron in Final, it just another remake of 2017.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mider T (Apr 10, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> No but Napoleon arguably was a better man than his contemporary. Not a good man but Robespiere, George III, Alexander II, Francis I and Frederick William II all come across as worse.


Yeah Napoleon wasn't particularly worse than any other European ruler at the time, he was mainly disparaged because he upset the "natural order" by being a common man who conquered and became Emperor.  Nobles viewed him as a lowly upstart and ultimately he lost so they wrote the history books.


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## RavenSupreme (Apr 10, 2022)

Makron leading by almost 5 points. Le Pen 23, Melenchon 20.

So it will be a Macron victory in R2


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 10, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Macron caused the yellow vests protests by trying to punish the majority for the Paris elite. He could've localised the tax, but decided to punish the average Joe. Apart from that police blowing off protestors limbs and brutalising them was an excellent exercise in France's respect for the people.
> 
> We'll see where things go, but he has MSM on side, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
> 
> @Le Mâle-Pensant your thoughts?





Mider T said:


> @Le Mâle-Pensant you alive buddy?





Alwaysmind said:


> I keep forgetting that you guys vote twice @Le Mâle-Pensant so there’s always hope that you did a mistake on the 2nd round.


Look like a rematch Macron Lepen

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Mider T (Apr 10, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 10, 2022)

all this circus with Zemmour for this  I guess he will return to his foxnew now.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RavenSupreme (Apr 10, 2022)

CrownedEagle said:


> all this circus with Zemmour for this  I guess he will return to his foxnew now.


Some 7% twat being hailed as europes nazi jesus is just


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 10, 2022)

Mider T said:


> Yeah Napoleon wasn't particularly worse than any other European ruler at the time


Yeah that's what I said. Probably a little better even.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 10, 2022)

Zemmour managed to destroy Les Républicains but failed to do the same the LePen’s party.
Macron will get Les Républicains votes but except them, who will vote for him In the second round ?
It’s gonna be 2 weeks of manoeuvre and negotiations between parties.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## RavenSupreme (Apr 10, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Zemmour managed to destroy Les Républicains but failed to do the same the LePen’s party.
> Macron will get Les Républicains votes but except them, who will vote for him In the second round ?
> It’s gonna be 2 weeks of manoeuvre and negotiations between parties.


Melenchon will come around. All his posturing and denial aside, he would never want to be remembered as the left candidate who got the right wing extremist into office.


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 10, 2022)

RavenSupreme said:


> Melenchon will come around. All his posturing and denial aside, he would never want to be remembered as the left candidate who got the right wing extremist into office.


No he won't, he said many time that he won't order his elector to vote Macron against the Far Right other left party yeah but not him, macron's program is exactly what he is fight against and if my memory is correct, he had already done it before in 2017.

Reactions: Sad! 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 10, 2022)

RavenSupreme said:


> Melenchon will come around. All his posturing and denial aside, he would never want to be remembered as the left candidate who got the right wing extremist into office.


I don’t think he’ll give any indication to vote. He didn’t really did in 2017 but after 5 years of Macron presidency, it would be scandal in his party if he show any support for Macron.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 10, 2022)

Melenchon and Lepen are definitely the biggest representative of the left and the right now. The Socialistes and Republcains are dead.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 10, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Melenchon and Lepen are definitely the biggest representative of the left and the right now. The Socialistes and Republcains are dead.


That's kinda frightening. That both the left and the right are led by dangerous Europhobes and that the center needs to hold against both of those rather than just one.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 10, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Look like a rematch Macron Lepen


Yea; she won’t win.


CrownedEagle said:


> all this circus with Zemmour for this  I guess he will return to his foxnew now.





Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Zemmour managed to destroy Les Républicains but failed to do the same the LePen’s party.
> Macron will get Les Républicains votes but except them, who will vote for him In the second round ?
> It’s gonna be 2 weeks of manoeuvre and negotiations between parties.


I find it funny that his party is “reconquête” and yet there’s no mention of Louis XX, Holland, nor Algeria. If anyone has the right to have a party called reconquest it be a Capetian or a Bonaparte.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 10, 2022)

Because you’ll ask if this is rigged.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Eros (Apr 10, 2022)

Will he?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 10, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## RavenSupreme (Apr 10, 2022)

CrownedEagle said:


> No he won't, he said many time that he won't order his elector to vote Macron against the Far Right other left party yeah but not him, macron's program is exactly what he is fight against and if my memory is correct, he had already done it before in 2017.





Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> I don’t think he’ll give any indication to vote. He didn’t really did in 2017 but after 5 years of Macron presidency, it would be scandal in his party if he show any support for Macron.



so everyone except zemnour or whatever his name came out and more or less gave Macron support through a proxy, in saying that in the upcoming second round they should vote against le pen

which Technically means you both are correct that melenchon did not endorse to vote FOR macron but I take it that I was also correct in the spirit since eryone said to vote AGAINST or NOT FOR LePen. - which only leaves macron

edit: I read a quote melenchon actively endorsed macron saying all votes to him

Reactions: Informative 1


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## stream (Apr 10, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> I doubt it. This is what they said about Trump too, that he'd weaken our alliances etc and all of it turned out to be bs.


Ha ha. If Trump had been president in 2022, Europe would have sided with Putin rather than being on the same side as Trump.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 10, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> That's kinda frightening. That both the left and the right are led by dangerous Europhobes and that the center needs to hold against both of those rather than just one.


I need to specify that what I said about the death of the socialists and republicans parties are valid only for the president election. For local elections like city, departments and regions, they still have solid root while Macron’s party struggles.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 10, 2022)

The expected report of votes on the two last candidates.


I expected that Melenchon supporter will go in majority for the blank vote or don’t even go to vote however I expected more support for Macron from Pecresse voters.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 10, 2022)

How do French elections work?


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## dr_shadow (Apr 10, 2022)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> How do French elections work?



In the first round of the presidential election, an unlimited amount of candidates are allowed to run. If one of them gets over 50% of the vote, they become president then and there.

But if no candidate manages to cross 50%, which is usually what happens, there is a run-off second round between the two candidates who got the most votes in the first round. That is, those who voted "third party" in the first round are given a chance to change their vote to the one of the two major parties that they like the most (dislike the least).

This system is a kind of compromise between proportional voting and first-past-the-post voting.


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 10, 2022)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> How do French elections work?


Anyone can run for the president race however to be an official candidate in the first round, a candidate must have 500 sponsorship of elected representatives of the republic (senator, mayors, member of parliament, deputy, etc ...)before the deadline date.

The two candidates having obtained the most votes during the 1st round will be able to access to the second round who will decide who will become the next french president.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 10, 2022)

CrownedEagle said:


> Anyone can run for president however to be a candidate in the first round, a candidate must have 500 sponsorship of elected representatives of the republic (senator, mayors, member of parliament, deputy, etc ...), the two candidates having obtained the most votes during the 1st round will be able to access the second who will decide who will become the next president.


So basically the type of election system that is being tried in New York City right now for an equivalent?


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 10, 2022)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> How do French elections work?


Two rounds. The first round, the two candidates with higher score go to the second round two weeks later. During these two weeks the parties negotiate with the losers or try to attract the voters from these parties who fail to reach the second round. During these two weeks, we are supposed to see a debate between the two last candidates.


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 10, 2022)

An interesting thing to note is that Marine Le Pen made one of those highest scores in Mayotte (an overseas territory) composed of more than 90% black Muslims citizens. Guess her dancing moves here wasn't only for show.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 10, 2022)

@Le Mâle-Pensant


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 10, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Two rounds. The first round, the two candidates with higher score go to the second round two weeks later. During these two weeks the parties negotiate with the losers or try to attract the voters from these parties who fail to reach the second round. During these two weeks, we are supposed to see a debate between the two last candidates.


Though I read on Wikipedia that the debate of the second round is by mediatic tradition and not enshrined in a strict election code. Is this true? Do you think Le pen can win enough support to oust Macron?


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## Saishin (Apr 11, 2022)

If there are losers in this first round well those are the historical parties that ruled France for decades. Republicans and Socialists were disastrous, the Republicans didn't reach even the 5% and Socialists just 1,7%


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## Trueno (Apr 11, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> Firstly I’d point out that Napoleon ain’t exactly Hitler. Secondly I’d point out that it’s been over 200 years since Napoleon.


Napoleon was actually appreciated as a great guy until he tried announcing himself as consul. Beethoven even originally dedicated his Eroica Symphony to him until he pulled that stunt.

Edit: stupid autocorrect changed Eroica to something unpleasant.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Lewd 1


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## stream (Apr 11, 2022)

Bryant D. Koby said:


> Napoleon was actually appreciated as a great guy until he tried announcing himself as consul. Beethoven even originally dedicated his *Erotica* Symphony to him until he pulled that stunt.




Also, even once Napoleon revealed himself as an avid conqueror and crowned himself emperor, he wasn't actually bad for the _population_ of invaded countries. Some places were essentially still living under feudal-like conditions, and getting invaded by Napoleon is what brought their country to modern age.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 11, 2022)

Don't wake the Napping Lion.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 11, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Don't wake the Napping Lion.


France is a rooster though. Don’t wake the sleeping rooster that is France.

MF6RGA!!!!!!!! (Rolls off the tongue)

make the French 6th Republic Great Again!


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## Geralt-Singh (Apr 11, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 3


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 12, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Though I read on Wikipedia that the debate of the second round is by mediatic tradition and not enshrined in a strict election code. Is this true? *Do you think Le pen can win enough support to oust Macron?*


I have no ideas. I don’t understand the country right now.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 12, 2022)

1/4 of Melenchon voters consider to vote for LePen.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 12, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 2


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## dergeist (Apr 12, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> 1/4 of Melenchon voters consider to vote for LePen.



Hopefully half do, it should be fun times ahead after that


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 12, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Hopefully half do, it should be fun times ahead after that


Yeah nothing more fun than foreign subjugation of the European continent


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## dergeist (Apr 12, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> Yeah nothing more fun than foreign subjugation of the European continent



Well, the European continent is full of different nations, so what if France plays a more assertive role


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 12, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Well, the European continent is full of different nations, so what if France plays a more assertive role


It won't though. That's the whole problem. The EU splitting up means its each country for themselves, which means France is going to be submissive to the US, Russia and China because it would have given up the ability to protect any ''assertive'' stance.


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## dergeist (Apr 12, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> It won't though. That's the whole problem. The EU splitting up means its each country for themselves, which means France is going to be submissive to the US, Russia and China because it would have given up the ability to protect any ''assertive'' stance.



Nah, it will be the EU returning to its roots. A free trade block instead of a project with ever closer union (attempts to create an empire).

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## GRIMMM (Apr 12, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Nah, it will be the EU returning to its roots.


War then.


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## dergeist (Apr 12, 2022)

GRIMMM said:


> War then.



I said EU not Europe


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 12, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> I have no ideas. I don’t understand the country right now.


I love that the two round system has strategic voting built into it. First round vote with your heart, second, vote with your head (strategic voting) to not elect somebody else.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 13, 2022)

Both LePen and Macron agree to change the presidency term from 5 years to 7 years like it was before 2000.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 13, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Both LePen and Macron agree to change the presidency term from 5 years to 7 years like it was before 2000.



Why, though?

Five years made it easier to remember which years are election years, since it's always the ones ending in -2 and -7.

Whereas with seven years it can be any year of the decade (-7, -4, -1, -8, -5, -2, -9, -6, -3 or -0).


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## dergeist (Apr 13, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Both LePen and Macron agree to change the presidency term from 5 years to 7 years like it was before 2000.



Lol, Macron knows if he wins the next term will go the right. He would like to long ot off as long as possible. Le Pen must be hopeful of winning, of she's agreeing to extended terms. 

France needs more talk about rising inflation, stagnant wages and policies undermining the working class so le Pen sweeps it. I assume the media will remain silent on these matters for now


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 13, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Why, though?
> 
> Five years made it easier to remember which years are election years, since it's always the ones ending in -2 and -7.
> 
> Whereas with seven years it can be any year of the decade (-7, -4, -1, -8, -5, -2, -9, -6, -3 or -0).


Many analysts from different political sides find 5 years not convenient for any president to really apply his policy. Basically on the 5 years, he gonna work on his project the 2 or 3 first years and the rest of his term nothing happen because he/she prepare his/her re election and don’t want to try anything unpopular.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 13, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Lol, Macron knows if he wins the next term will go the right. He would like to long ot off as long as possible. Le Pen must be hopeful of winning, of she's agreeing to extended terms.
> 
> France needs more talk about rising inflation, stagnant wages and policies undermining the working class so le Pen sweeps it. I assume the media will remain silent on these matters for now


I cannot tell you what the media saying, I don’t really follow them right now. I suppose that Zemmour be eliminated from the race, the media are on Lepen’s ass now.


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## Van Basten (Apr 13, 2022)

Some French people want to make up for Trump’s absence and humiliate themselves with a possible Le Pen win.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 13, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Both LePen and Macron agree to change the presidency term from 5 years to 7 years like it was before 2000.


Many presidents, including Obama also felt that 4 years is too short.

I think the conclusion is inevitable. France must enter into tge 6th republic.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 13, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Lol, Macron knows if he wins the next term will go the right. He would like to long ot off as long as possible. Le Pen must be hopeful of winning, of she's agreeing to extended terms.
> 
> France needs more talk about rising inflation, stagnant wages and policies undermining the working class so le Pen sweeps it. I assume the media will remain silent on these matters for now


How is the police undermining the working class? If you mean chasing beurre I’m sorry to tell you that Le Pen won’t help them.


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## dergeist (Apr 13, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> How is the police undermining the working class? If you mean chasing beurre I’m sorry to tell you that Le Pen won’t help them.



Well, apart from blowimg off their appendages and maiming them during protests, I'm not sure


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## Mider T (Apr 13, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Both LePen and Macron agree to change the presidency term from 5 years to 7 years like it was before 2000.


Why was it changed to 5 years to begin with?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 13, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Well, apart from blowimg off their appendages and maiming them during protests, I'm not sure


Can’t be as bad as this:


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 13, 2022)

Mider T said:


> Why was it changed to 5 years to begin with?


You can try to google translate this page with chrome.


some politicians felt that the 7 year mandate was no longer necessary in the later half of the 20th century.

the proposal was brought forth to the people in a referendum. However less than 10 million people voted.

so to summarize, it was changed because of:
Reform and democratic inactivity.

mine thing is for sure, Jacques Chirac didn’t want it and reluctantly accepted the 5 year term.

now imagine if the no had actually won. France would probably still have a 7 years term, which means that Jacques Chirac would have left in 2009, well after Bush.


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## Trojan (Apr 13, 2022)

if the news that I  read about LePen trying to leave NATO/EU (whatever it was?)
then perhaps Muslims in France should vote for her.  

they can leave France after that if she continued her slut-like behavior against Islam I guess or endure a little bit
for the greater good of the rest of the world...

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## dergeist (Apr 13, 2022)

New Folder said:


> if the news that I  read about LePen trying to leave NATO/EU (whatever it was?)
> then perhaps Muslims in France should vote for her.
> 
> they can leave France after that if she continued her slut-like behavior against Islam I guess or endure a little bit
> for the greater good of the rest of the world...



I'm not sure how many of them will vote for Macron, he passed rulings or allowed them to undermine their freedoms in some aspects. They might not vote at all or just go with her.

As for leaving NATO, I doubt she'll do that, but she'll likely try and slow down the escalation.


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## Trojan (Apr 13, 2022)

dergeist said:


> might not vote at all


it seems so. some people on Twitter say that are practically useless (in this regard) as they choose to disappear during the elections despite
having 10 million votes or something (Can't remember the exact number). Which makes politicians don't really care much about them since they don't pose any threat as they are not united...  



dergeist said:


> As for leaving NATO, I doubt she'll do that, but she'll likely try and slow down the escalation.


perhaps...  
altho it might be worth a try I guess...


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 13, 2022)

dergeist said:


> I'm not sure how many of them will vote for Macron, he passed rulings or allowed them to undermine their freedoms in some aspects. They might not vote at all or just go with her.
> 
> As for leaving NATO, I doubt she'll do that, but she'll likely try and slow down the escalation.


We doubted that the one-time president would leave agreements and here we are. If she wins, she can definitely throw a tantrum and just leave NATO. Though in a much more articulate way.


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## Jim (Apr 13, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> You can try to google translate this page with chrome.
> 
> 
> some politicians felt that the 7 year mandate was no longer necessary in the later half of the 20th century.
> ...


You made my browser think this wass a french website, lol


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 13, 2022)

New Folder said:


> it seems so. some people on Twitter say that are practically useless (in this regard) as they choose to disappear during the elections despite
> having 10 million votes or something (Can't remember the exact number). Which makes politicians don't really care much about them since they don't pose any threat as they are not united...
> 
> 
> ...


it’s worth a try to leave NATO because just like with brexit they will make sure that if such things happen again, it will be very difficult. And probably still bill France for shit.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 13, 2022)

Jim said:


> You made my browser think this wass a french website, lol


is*

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mider T (Apr 13, 2022)

New Folder said:


> they can leave France after that if she continued her slut-like behavior against Islam


What does this even mean


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## dergeist (Apr 13, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> We doubted that the one-time president would leave agreements and here we are. If she wins, she can definitely throw a tantrum and just leave NATO. Though in a much more articulate way.



That one term president made his intentions clear from the onset (policy direction if elected), the US was being shafted by the allied and he wanted equality. He created equality via his tariffs in some respects. As for the Iran agreement, then I agree on that point.


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## Jim (Apr 13, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> is*


I meant NF.
just having that URL there made my computer thing NF was french, lol


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## blk (Apr 13, 2022)

7 years presidency would be interesting.

I kinda agree that 5 years aren't enough to see the results of policies.

Although that's kinda close to the limit of what would be reasonable for a democracy imo.




dergeist said:


> Nah, it will be the EU returning to its roots. A free trade block instead of a project with ever closer union (attempts to create an empire).



Again with the backward stances.

European federal superstate is a step forward compared to a mere trade union.



But it seems like Macron will win so i'm rather optimistic this time.



New Folder said:


> if the news that I  read about LePen trying to leave NATO/EU (whatever it was?)
> then perhaps Muslims in France should vote for her.
> 
> they can leave France after that if she continued her slut-like behavior against Islam I guess or endure a little bit
> for the greater good of the rest of the world...



Lol that's a net negative for european muslims as well.

She's also racist towards arabs/muslims much more than Macron.


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## dergeist (Apr 13, 2022)

blk said:


> Again with the backward stances.
> 
> European federal superstate is a step forward compared to a mere trade union.
> 
> ...



Imagine calling a sensible and reasonable stance, that undermines the potential of another war machine rising, so you can sow more corruption on the earth. 

A superstate would further undermine local democracy, so no. A better model would be becoming more decentralised and anti-war like Switzerland.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 13, 2022)

I think the thread should have a poll.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Informative 1


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## Jim (Apr 13, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> I think the thread should have a poll.


but it's french not polish
j/k

Reactions: Funny 1


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## blk (Apr 13, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Imagine calling a sensible and reasonable stance, that undermines the potential of another war machine rising, so you can sow more corruption on the earth.
> 
> A superstate would further undermine local democracy, so no. A better model would be becoming more decentralised and anti-war like Switzerland.



If you think that democracy is better protected by further dividing the democratic powers instead of strengthening our relations, you are either being naive/deluded or you want low key to advantage Putin, Xi, etc...  


It's like saying the American states would have been better off if they weren't united in a single federation (imagine separate US states vs the USSR). 


So literally nothing reasonable about your position (again unless you are rooting for the autocrats).


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## dergeist (Apr 13, 2022)

blk said:


> If you think that democracy is better protected by further dividing the democratic powers instead of strengthening our relations, you are either being naive/deluded or you want low key to advantage Putin, Xi, etc...



Yep, democracy to be free by definition requires people having more power. Trading is more than enough to build relationships (mutual benefit)  Putin and Xi aren't relevant since we have a military alliance to counter them.



blk said:


> It's like saying the American states would have been better off if they weren't united in a single federation (imagine separate US states vs the USSR).



It's not Murica states have massive freedoms and generally decide their own policy, let their own governors, diverge on laws etc, and even up their competitiveness (have even greater GDP). You don't need to imagine that (taking on the USSR), since they would have the NATO style harmonised alliance, so..




blk said:


> So literally nothing reasonable about your position (again unless you are rooting for the autocrats).



The reality went over your head, the US was the worst example you could think off (could also point out many flaws). I support more democracy (like Switzerland) over more authoritarianism (what you propose).


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## blk (Apr 13, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Yep, democracy to be free by definition requires people having more power. Trading is more than enough to build relationships (mutual benefit)  Putin and Xi aren't relevant since we have a military alliance to counter them.



Considering that you also want European countries to get out of current alliances & trade pacts, you actually don't even support this bit.



dergeist said:


> It's not Murica states have massive freedoms



Same shit can (and would realistically) be done with a federal EU.

So if you are ok with the US formula there's no reason to be against the same but for Europe.




dergeist said:


> The reality went over your head, the US was the worst example you could think off (could also point out many flaws). I support more democracy (like Switzerland) over more authoritarianism (what you propose).



Lol


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## blk (Apr 13, 2022)

@dr_shadow should have made polls voters visible


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## dr_shadow (Apr 13, 2022)

blk said:


> @dr_shadow should have made polls voters visible



I think anyone who has paid any attention to the Cafe during the past 5 years can guess who the Le Pen voters are.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## dr_shadow (Apr 13, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> I think anyone who has paid any attention to the Cafe during the past 5 years can guess who the Le Pen voters are.



This said, we have some French members (no names named) who have on occasion expressed what I perceive as Le Pen-ish opinions, but I'm curious whether or not they will *really* vote for her when they're standing there in the poll booth.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## stream (Apr 13, 2022)

Le Pen is essentially going the same track as Trump. She says she's for the little guy, she's pushing for protectionism of national interests against other countries, and anti immigration to the point of flirting with racism.

There's apparently a few people on the left who are intending to vote for her rather than Macron, on the basis that's she's allegedly pro worker, and also because they hate Macron since he ignored/destroyed the yellow vest movement.


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## dergeist (Apr 13, 2022)

blk said:


> Considering that you also want European countries to get out of current alliances & trade pacts, you actually don't even support this bit.



Actually no, I'm more pro-free trade and less protectionism. It's one of the reasons I voted for Brexit. We need to build more trade links so people are less likely to fight. And I don't believe in paying for that.




blk said:


> Same shit can (and would realistically) be done with a federal EU.
> 
> So if you are ok with the US formula there's no reason to be against the same but for Europe.



Not possible, the US was founded on the ideal (ingrained from the onset), Europe wasn't. We can just return to the old days of the EU (just a trade block) and carry on like normal. 

It can't work in the EU (it sanctions any member that doesn't adhere to the ideal), and I said the US may be better off as states competing and building up GDP. 



blk said:


> Lol



At least we agree.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## dr_shadow (Apr 13, 2022)

stream said:


> Le Pen is essentially going the same track as Trump. She says she's for the little guy, she's pushing for protectionism of national interests against other countries, and anti immigration to the point of flirting with racism.



More like Trump went in the same track as Le Pen. The National Rally (formerly National Front) has been a factor in French politics since at least 2002, when Le Pen's _dad_ ran against Chirac and made the second round.

The Proto-Trump was however mostly Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi (1994-1995, 2001-2006, 2008-2011). The European right was edging towards the abyss while America was still in the Bush era.

On a personal note, the Sweden Democrats have been represented in the Swedish parliament since 2010, which was six years before we had heard of Trump.


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## dergeist (Apr 13, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> More like Trump went in the same track as Le Pen. The National Rally (formerly National Front) has been a factor in French politics since at least 2002, when Le Pen's _dad_ ran against Chirac and made the second round.



Trumps policies are quite old, he's been as he was since the 80s.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## T-Bag (Apr 13, 2022)

Young Trump is a G.


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## blk (Apr 14, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Actually no, I'm more pro-free trade and less protectionism. It's one of the reasons I voted for Brexit.



How can someone write these two sentences one after the other unironically 



The rest is baseless opinion...


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## dergeist (Apr 14, 2022)

blk said:


> How can someone write these two sentences one after the other unironically
> 
> 
> 
> The rest is baseless opinion...



Because the second sentence was explained by the two that followed 

The rest is facts, sounds like you're mad

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 14, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> This said, we have some French members (no names named) who have on occasion expressed what I perceive as Le Pen-ish opinions, but I'm curious whether or not they will *really* vote for her when they're standing there in the poll booth.


What is the point for a poll open to the world. To know what the rest of the world want to lead France for their personal interests? Most of people here don’t care about France and french people. They just care about if the leader of this country will be an obstacle or an ally to their interests. Some might even wish our decline for their own good.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Useful 1 | Disagree 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 14, 2022)

New Folder said:


> if the news that I  read about LePen trying to leave NATO/EU (whatever it was?)
> then perhaps Muslims in France should vote for her.
> 
> they can leave France after that if she continued her slut-like behavior against Islam I guess or endure a little bit
> for the greater good of the rest of the world...


She won’t leave the EU and consider leave NATO integrated command. For the rest, I’m not sure she would apply a quarter of what she actually propose.
She might be tempered to make concessions to the “far” left to get support.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 14, 2022)

Hey @Jim , can you write sometimes instead of posting smileys all the time?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## blk (Apr 14, 2022)

Hopefully the second round will, even slightly, mirror the result we are having here

Reactions: Funny 1


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## stream (Apr 14, 2022)

Macron is ahead in polls (~54%), but the big question is who will really vote. Le Pen supporters are less likely to stay home and not vote, because they really really want her to be elected. Macron "supporters", on the other side, are in good part people who find him slightly less worse, but might end up thinking it's not worth the effort to vote.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 14, 2022)

stream said:


> Macron is ahead in polls (~54%), but the big question is who will really vote. Le Pen supporters are less likely to stay home and not vote, because they really really want her to be elected. Macron "supporters", on the other side, are in good part people who find him slightly less worse, but might end up thinking it's not worth the effort to vote.


There are people really motivated to vote or Macron especially the elder generation. But for those who didn’t vote for him in the first round, the question is what gonna be their choice? Will they follow the instructions from their candidates and vote for him ? Or vote blank ? Or don’t go to vote? It’s really depends their mood.
From what I see there is a huge propaganda in the media to demonise LePen. She was relaxed before the first round, all the criticisms was on Zemmour. He was like a lightning rod for her. Now that he is eliminated, we start to see absurd articles like from the Obs insinuating that if she becomes president, she could launch the equivalent of 48,000 Hiroshima on a big part of the US Russia, China, Africa and Europe.


The same magazine that explains to use 2 years ago how countries lead by women are better managed (for feminist credit I guess).


Btw don’t forget to put a smileys @Jim

Also, I didn’t reply to @Alwaysmind @blk or @dergeist because when it come to give my personal opinion on the candidate, I prefer to do in in PM.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## NeoTerraKnight (Apr 14, 2022)

dergeist said:


> I'm not sure how many of them will vote for Macron, he passed rulings or allowed them to undermine their freedoms in some aspects. They might not vote at all or just go with her.
> 
> As for leaving NATO, I doubt she'll do that, but she'll likely try and slow down the escalation.



Dude, she supported the annexation of Crimea. She's in Putin's pocket.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## dergeist (Apr 14, 2022)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> Dude, she supported the annexation of Crimea. She's in Putin's pocket.



You made two claims there and then a leap from the initial claim. First you have to show support for annexation, instead of lets not talk about it it's lost anyway. The second she's actually in Putin's pocket.

I look forward to reading them. Don't forget references so I can vet the claims.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## NeoTerraKnight (Apr 14, 2022)

dergeist said:


> You made two claims there and then a leap from the initial claim. First you have to show support for annexation, instead of lets not talk about it it's lost anyway. The second she's actually in Putin's pocket.
> 
> I look forward to reading them. Don't forget references so I can vet the claims.



2017 wasn't that long ago and that was before the world found out that Putin is a bloodthirsty megalomaniac who's living in the past.









						Marine Le Pen says Putin was absolutely right to annex Crimea
					

Vladimir Putin’s forces swept into the Ukrainian Black Sea peninsula of Crimea in February 2014




					www.independent.co.uk
				












						Marine Le Pen: Who's funding France's far right?
					

BBC Panorama investigates where Marine Le Pen's National Front gets its money.



					www.bbc.com


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## JFF (Apr 14, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> What is the point for a poll open to the world. To know what the rest of the world want to lead France for their personal interests? Most of people here don’t care about France and french people. They just care about if the leader of this country will be an obstacle or an ally to their interests. Some might even wish our decline for their own good.


I actually do care as European. We need a strong European Union and  I do say, that Le Pen is not the person for that. At least I somehow doubt that.

As I explained before; its not like she ruled out Frexit or anything like that in the last years (the opposite). Under Macron France did better then Germany the last years. So I think he must made something right

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1


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## dergeist (Apr 14, 2022)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> 2017 wasn't that long ago and that was before the world found out that Putin is a bloodthirsty megalomaniac who's living in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know you can't read, dude, so I'll quote the relevant part from your article.



> Ms Le Pen, who leads the Front National in France and is a candidate in April’s presidential election, said: “I absolutely disagree that it was an illegal annexation: a referendum was held and residents of Crimea chose to rejoin Russia.”



A referendum is a legitimate form to determine the will fo the people. It was used by the US in Yugoslavia and ruled legitimate by the international court saying right to self determination. The argument made against it is that it was illegal. I don't even remember Barry saying it was fixed. Anyway, Le Pen is using the same principle. 









						Crimea 'votes for Russia union' - BBC News
					

Election officials say 95.5% of Crimean voters back joining Russia in a disputed referendum, with half the ballots counted.




					www.bbc.co.uk
				








NeoTerraKnight said:


> Marine Le Pen: Who's funding France's far right?
> 
> 
> BBC Panorama investigates where Marine Le Pen's National Front gets its money.
> ...



That's an opinion piece by a Putin opponent on why a bank would lend money to the Party. There isn't an iota of proof in that claim to substantiate Putin paid her, so she's in his pocket. I thought you had some real proof

Was she ever found guilty of receiving Kremlin money or being a foreign agent?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## NeoTerraKnight (Apr 14, 2022)

dergeist said:


> I know you can't read, dude, so I'll quote the relevant part from your article.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When I said she's in Putin's pocket, she still is.









						Le Pen's far-right party reaches settlement on Russian bank debt: court
					

The National Rally, a French far-right party led by Marine Le Pen, has reached a court settlement with a Russian firm over its outstanding debts on a loan it took out in 2014, court documents showed.




					www.reuters.com


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## dergeist (Apr 14, 2022)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> When I said she's in Putin's pocket, she still is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*You* said, but *didn't show proof* of her being in Putin's pocket

Reactions: Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## T-Bag (Apr 14, 2022)

Neo terra knight gets informed with headlines

Reactions: Winner 2


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## NeoTerraKnight (Apr 14, 2022)

dergeist said:


> *You* said, but *didn't show proof* of her being in Putin's pocket



Why do you guys have to defend these people so hard?


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## dergeist (Apr 14, 2022)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> Why do you guys have to defend these people so hard?



Accused, and what have I told you about tweets

I'll say it again, you didn't show *proof* of her being in Putin's pocket.

I'll ask again, was she ever found guilty of receiving Kremlin money or being a foreign agent?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Eros (Apr 14, 2022)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> Why do you guys have to defend these people so hard?


Some people love those banana republic leaders.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dergeist (Apr 14, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> Neo terra knight gets informed with headlines



Pretty much.



Eros said:


> Some people love those banana republic leaders.



France is a banana republic

I view is as a hypocritical country when it claims to be liberal or for freedoms, but certainly not a banana republic.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 15, 2022)

JFF said:


> *I actually do care as European*. We need a strong European Union and  I do say, that Le Pen is not the person for that. At least I somehow doubt that.
> 
> As I explained before; its not like she ruled out Frexit or anything like that in the last years (the opposite). Under Macron France did better then Germany the last years. So I think he must made something right


As Europeans like you said. Basically you care about what could happen to the EU. It’s normal, we all analyse a foreign election based on our own interests and here, most of people here watch this election mainly for the EU future.
The problem is that there are many internal issues that also ruined the daily life of french people and Macron failed to respond to these issues. If we mention these issues here nobody care, it’s all about EU, EU, EU and NATO. Melenchon and LePen together almost represent 45% of votes but no one care to wonder why the “far” right and “far” left  are so strong.
Also she said Frexit is not in agenda.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 15, 2022)

dergeist said:


> *You* said, but *didn't show proof* of her being in Putin's pocket


Well only the Russians accepted to give her money. French and other western banks refused because she is a LePen


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 15, 2022)

for the curiosity, can someone gives me few measures from LePen you judge extreme  ?


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## dergeist (Apr 15, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Well only the Russians accepted to give her money. French and other western banks refused because she is a LePen



Sure, it's sad that the Western banks try and suppress democratic wills 

The more I learn, the more I question the notion of freedom.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## dergeist (Apr 15, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Before the curiosity, can someone gives me few measures from LePen you judge extreme or Trumpiist ?



Lol, they don't even know Le Pen's policies. If you were to mention a few, the left would be like but she's far-right how could she have such policies.



Here's a link to a few


*Spoiler*: __


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 15, 2022)




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## blk (Apr 15, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> for the curiosity, can someone gives me few measures from LePen you judge extreme  ?



Not sure if i would call them "extreme" (since they are the norm/a staple of right wing parties) but her nationalistic/protectionism policies are obviously extremely damaging economically.

Like if enacted (and i don't know how she could put them in place tbh, since some of them violate EU treaties iirc... so she's either lying about giving up on Frexit, or she's lying about her protectionist policies) they would 100% make french poorer as time goes on.
It's basically impossible for that not to happen when you make trade artificially more costly.


Same for immigration policies.


Fixing pensions to inflation (that's what i read on her program) is also a recipe for disaster.




Also she has a weird opposition to green energy for some reason (and even wants to demolish some of France's current wind power iirc?!), instead of being smart and combine that with France's large nuclear power.




As for what you said about Europeans caring about EU/Europe mainly, that's kinda true but it's also true that what's good for the EU at large is also gonna be good for most of Europe.

Imo at this point our economies (and societies) are too entangled (for good reasons, complex economies cannot survive in autarky) to be considered by themselves.

So fundamentally what's good for the whole is extremely likely to be for the parts, and vice-versa.

Trading is the obvious example for this, but there's also freer movement of people (movement of labor, but also more mundane stuff like holydays etc... right now you can literally take an high speed train from Paris to Milan and have a weekend in another country, with no particular controls or anything as far as i know... why would you want to give up this freedom??).
Greater cultural & academic contaminatione.
Also stronger security considering current events...


And because of this we should start to think more in European terms than national terms in general imo.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 15, 2022)

Off with their heads for a clean slate.

Make Floréal Great Again! MFGA!!!!!!!!


by the way @Le Mâle-Pensant  à quand le/les debat/s?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 15, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> for the curiosity, can someone gives me few measures from LePen you judge extreme  ?


Reducing the retirement age from 62 to 60. How about you retire at 65 like the rest of us you lazy boomers or entitled Gen alpha

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 15, 2022)

blk said:


> Not sure if i would call them "extreme" (since they are the norm/a staple of right wing parties) but her nationalistic/protectionism policies are obviously extremely damaging economically.
> 
> Like if enacted (and i don't know how she could put them in place tbh, since some of them violate EU treaties iirc... so she's either lying about giving up on Frexit, or she's lying about her protectionist policies) they would 100% make french poorer as time goes on.
> It's basically impossible for that not to happen when you make trade artificially more costly.
> ...





Alwaysmind said:


> Reducing the retirement age from 62 to 60. How about you retire at 65 like the rest of us you lazy boomers or entitled Gen alpha


It’s reasonably arguable but I expect policy that justify her being portrayed as new Hitler or something similar. 
Some decisions took by Emmanuel Macron during his term were against the interests of our country like planing to close nuclear plants (before a incredible u-turn just before the elections). Selling our sensitive technologies related to nuclear to an American company (and by default making us dependant of them) wasn’t really smart. Now they try to get it back at a more expensive price…

I just give you few examples that could make you understand Macron’s image in France is not as good as abroad. We could add the submarines crisis with the Australians or the recent Mckinsay scandals.

LePen is not the Frexit candidate. Those who actually want it, criticise her for that. I believe she’ll just not respect the EU rules and negotiate to change the rules within the EU.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 15, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Off with their heads for a clean slate.
> 
> Make Floréal Great Again! MFGA!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


J’en sais rien et je ne regarderai pas. Je suis en Malaisie donc ça sera certainement en direct à 2h du matin pour moi. Je regarderai les résumés sur Twitter. 
Pour moi si Macron passe (et il va certainement passer), la France est terminé….


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## Mider T (Apr 15, 2022)

Eros said:


> Some people love those banana republic leaders.


As they should


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 15, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> J’en sais rien et je ne regarderai pas. Je suis en Malaisie donc ça sera certainement en direct à 2h du matin pour moi. Je regarderai les résumés sur Twitter.
> Pour moi si Macron passe (et il va certainement passer), la France est terminé….


people always say that the country is finished after every election. What do you mean France is finish. Dans quel sense est-ce-que la France est fini?


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## dr_shadow (Apr 16, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> people always say that the country is finished



Relatively speaking, every Western country is finished.



They all have relatively slower population and GDP growth than the global average, and soon enough they will have shrinking populations and stagnant economies in the absolute sense too. I don't think there's anything we can do about it. We just need to accept that perhaps in the future Vietnam will be a more powerful country than France.

Sweden is in the same boat too. Last year was like slowest pop growth of all time.


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## blk (Apr 16, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> LePen is not the Frexit candidate. Those who actually want it, criticise her for that. I believe she’ll just not respect the EU rules and negotiate to change the rules within the EU.



Yeah introducing protectionism within the EU ain't gonna happen (like it literally defeats the most basic purpose of the union), if LePen won't respect EU rules you will get sanctioned.

Which could easily lead to a serious risk of Frexit (despite that the fault would all be on LePen, people will 100% blame the EU).

That's on top of purchasing power losses from protectionism and a self destructive pension program.... not sure how anyone can vote for her.
She's either gonna ruin France economically or simply not apply her policies as they are.



But then again a fckton of people in Italy too vote for Salvini or other populist idiots so i guess i shouldn't be surprised...



dr_shadow said:


> Relatively speaking, every Western country is finished.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is also kinda true.

Substantial economic growth in developed countries (that have consumed the low hanging fruits of growth) with a stagnant or worse shrinking population ain't gonna happen.

And there's no populist candidate that can change this (actually no politician / party at all, anywhere, has been able to solve the problem so far).



Tbh tho Vietnam or other Asian countries becoming more economically relevant will also, very likely, bring the same population decline problems as in the west.

We can already see that in China (or worse Japan & S Korea).

And i expect the same to happen in the rest of South Asia as they develop more.

Richer & more educated people just don't want to make kids


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## dr_shadow (Apr 16, 2022)

blk said:


> Tbh tho Vietnam or other Asian countries becoming more economically relevant will also, very likely, bring the same population decline problems as in the west.
> 
> We can already see that in China (or worse Japan & S Korea).



This.



blk said:


> And i expect the same to happen in the rest of South Asia as they develop more.



Sorry, but I gotta nitpick this careless terminology that I see all over the internet. "East Asia", "South Asia" and "Southeast Asia" are three different regions.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 16, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> people always say that the country is finished after every election. What do you mean France is finish. Dans quel sense est-ce-que la France est fini?


Bon je ne dis jamais ça, même après François Hollande. Je pense qu’elle sera fini car on ne pourra plus jamais ralentir l’immigration ou même simplement lutter sérieusement contre la criminalité. On assimile ou intègre plus personne et les forces politiques représentés par Macron ou Mélenchon se moque de ces problèmes. 
Ce que je reproche à Macron c’est de mettre en avant l’Europe au détriment de notre pays. A la limite si c’était à notre avantage, je dirais rien mais à un moment on nous demandera de donner notre siège à l’ONU ainsi que nos armes nucléaires à une Europe dirigée par l’Allemagne et j’ai vraiment peur que Macron soit le président qui distribue nos forces sans réclamer quoi que ce soit à notre avantage. En gros on donne nos bijoux de famille et on doit fermer notre gueule.
Donc oui je pense que la France sera terminé par Macron. 
A la fois parce qu’il n’y a plus de volonté de faire des nouveaux arrivants de véritables français mais préfère se soumettre aux exigences des arrivants (je serais même pas surpris si on voit arriver dans quelques années des demandes pour la charia en France et voir ces demandes défendu par la gauche). 
Mais aussi car le pays est de plus en plus dangereux et l’injustice règne.
Et je pense que le coup de grâce sera notre dissolution dans une Europe dirigée par l’Allemagne et soumise aux Etats-Unis dans laquelle nous n’aurons plus notre mot à dire.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 16, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Bon je ne dis jamais ça, même après François Hollande. Je pense qu’elle sera fini car on ne pourra plus jamais ralentir l’immigration ou même simplement lutter sérieusement contre la criminalité. On assimile ou intègre plus personne et les forces politiques représentés par Macron ou Mélenchon se moque de ces problèmes.
> Ce que je reproche à Macron c’est de mettre en avant l’Europe au détriment de notre pays. A la limite si c’était à notre avantage, je dirais rien mais à un moment on nous demandera de donner notre siège à l’ONU ainsi que nos armes nucléaires à une Europe dirigée par l’Allemagne et j’ai vraiment peur que Macron soit le président qui distribue nos forces sans réclamer quoi que ce soit à notre avantage. En gros on donne nos bijoux de famille et on doit fermer notre gueule.
> Donc oui je pense que la France sera terminé par Macron.
> A la fois parce qu’il n’y a plus de volonté de faire des nouveaux arrivants de véritables français mais préfère se soumettre aux exigences des arrivants (je serais même pas surpris si on voit arriver dans quelques années des demandes pour la charia en France et voir ces demandes défendu par la gauche).
> ...


What? Ik versta je niet.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## dr_shadow (Apr 16, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> What? Ik versta je niet.



I used it as French reading practice and understood like 60%.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 16, 2022)

blk said:


> Yeah introducing protectionism within the EU ain't gonna happen (like it literally defeats the most basic purpose of the union), if LePen won't respect EU rules you will get sanctioned.
> 
> Which could easily lead to a serious risk of Frexit (despite that the fault would all be on LePen, people will 100% blame the EU).
> 
> ...


Let me tell you. If Macron decided during his term to seriously limit immigration and  strongly fight against criminality and injustice and get results, Le Pen wouldn’t be in the second round right now.


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 16, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Let me tell you. If Macron decided during his term to seriously limit immigration and  strongly fight against criminality and injustice and get results, Le Pen wouldn’t be in the second round right now.


I doubt it actually. Firstly because Populist voters don't care about policy and result. They care about ''feelings'', the imaginary bond between them and the great leader, as well as seething hatred for the establishment. Macron could fix all their woes and they'll just bring up new one without moving an inch away from populism.

Secondly because when presented with the genuine article and a copy it makes little sense to vote for the copy. Le Pen would be the original and because she doesn't have to compromise with other political streams she can also be tougher on this topic than Macron and insist he's not doing enough. Macron being a Le Pen light might also make moderate or left leaning support for him collapse which he likely can't go without.

Establishment parties adopting populist policies very rarely gets accompanied with a drop in populist voters. Rutte occasionally panders to the PVV voters or orders members of his party to disgrace themselves with ''PVV corvee'' yet Wilders always remained one of the bigger parties.


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 16, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Let me tell you. If Macron decided during his term to seriously limit immigration and  strongly fight against criminality and injustice and get results, Le Pen wouldn’t be in the second round right now.


No The far right is popular because the media highlight them every day and Macron has trivialized this party throughout his five-year term to reach this situation to have a republican dam against the far right again. Crime has been down for several years and Macron has always been tough on immigration.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 16, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> I doubt it actually. Firstly because Populist voters don't care about policy and result. They care about ''feelings'', the imaginary bond between them and the great leader, as well as seething hatred for the establishment. Macron could fix all their woes and they'll just bring up new one without moving an inch away from populism.
> 
> Secondly because when presented with the genuine article and a copy it makes little sense to vote for the copy. Le Pen would be the original and because she doesn't have to compromise with other political streams she can also be tougher on this topic than Macron and insist he's not doing enough. Macron being a Le Pen light might also make moderate or left leaning support for him collapse which he likely can't go without.
> 
> Establishment parties adopting populist policies very rarely gets accompanied with a drop in populist voters. Rutte occasionally panders to the PVV voters or orders members of his party to disgrace themselves with ''PVV corvee'' yet Wilders always remained one of the bigger parties.


I disagree. I think you automatically give too much credit to Macron and unfair with those who want changes. 
It’s like for you all the criticism on him are unfair and people have no reasons to be against him because according to you, they just hating because he represents the establishment.
It’s too simplistic to believe there are no problems and present these voters as haters.  
You guys really refuse to consider that what I’m saying about my country might be the reason why LePen and her party are still around. The voice of a person from the country have low value here…
Macron announcing that he’ll limit immigration and fight criminality and injustice for his second term would probably convince nobody (including me) but if it was one of his commitments during his first term and managed to get results, LePen wouldn’t be in the second round. It would be Melenchon for social reasons.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 16, 2022)

CrownedEagle said:


> No The far right is popular because the media highlight them every day and Macron has trivialized this party throughout his five-year term to reach this situation to have a republican dam against the far right again. Crime has been down for several years and Macron has always been tough on immigration.


Except the dead parties (during presidential elections) that are the PS and now the Républicains, you’ll always have a “republican dam” whatever it’s LePen or Melenchon but there is no point to debate about this joke that is this “republican dam”. The criminality is rather stable but high and .

Regarding immigration, I disagree, Macron is not touch on immigration otherwise we would have so many illegals. Being tough on immigration would be to actively send them back to their country and take the measures to prevent them to come illegally. But maybe we have different standards when regarding being “tough on immigration”. I live in a country where  while in my country, .
For me it’s done anyways. Macron will probably  be elected again and the country will continue it terrible transformation.
I gonna stay in Malaysia for now and stop caring about what’s going on in France…

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 16, 2022)

I don’t really have an opinion about this embargo but the way it’s done is like they hide something to the population that could impact their democratic choice.


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## Kingslayer (Apr 16, 2022)

Both candidates sucks tbh.

Macron will win this easily.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 16, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> It’s like for you all the criticism on him are unfair and people have no reasons to be against him because according to you, they just hating because he represents the establishment.


Not all. Just what comes from Le Pen's corner.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 16, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Bon je ne dis jamais ça, même après François Hollande. Je pense qu’elle sera fini car on ne pourra plus jamais ralentir l’immigration ou même simplement lutter sérieusement contre la criminalité. On assimile ou intègre plus personne et les forces politiques représentés par Macron ou Mélenchon se moque de ces problèmes.
> Ce que je reproche à Macron c’est de mettre en avant l’Europe au détriment de notre pays. A la limite si c’était à notre avantage, je dirais rien mais à un moment on nous demandera de donner notre siège à l’ONU ainsi que nos armes nucléaires à une Europe dirigée par l’Allemagne et j’ai vraiment peur que Macron soit le président qui distribue nos forces sans réclamer quoi que ce soit à notre avantage. En gros on donne nos bijoux de famille et on doit fermer notre gueule.
> Donc oui je pense que la France sera terminé par Macron.
> A la fois parce qu’il n’y a plus de volonté de faire des nouveaux arrivants de véritables français mais préfère se soumettre aux exigences des arrivants (je serais même pas surpris si on voit arriver dans quelques années des demandes pour la charia en France et voir ces demandes défendu par la gauche).
> ...


Merci!

Donc si je resume:


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 16, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> Not all. Just what comes from Le Pen's corner.


Like what ? Criticise Macron for keeping the borders open during the first months of the covid crisis while all our neighbours closed their borders with us ?  Come on. Don’t oppose systematically because of her or her side but because of your personal opinion on the issue. That’s why I believe you are unfair here.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 16, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Merci!
> 
> Donc si je resume:


La vidéo est indisponible où je suis.


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## dergeist (Apr 16, 2022)

blk said:


> Fixing pensions to inflation (that's what i read on her program) is also a recipe for disaster.



So you're for constantly plundering pensioners and making them live a miserable existence


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 16, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> La vidéo est indisponible où je suis.


Maybe one of these:



It’s only Un autre jour en France by Noir Désire. Not completely what you said but their criticism are quite close of what you said.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 16, 2022)

Ok, so when is round two? Next week? 

In that case, new challenge – I'm gonna learn French in one week. I think I know enough vocabulary already that I just need to cram the grammar TBH.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 16, 2022)

Les normands sont capables, je suis capable.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 16, 2022)

@Hand Banana

Tu es éligible voter?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 16, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Les normands sont capables, je suis capable.


Voilà leur second drapeau

Reactions: Funny 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 16, 2022)

Bien sûr, il est nécessaire _consulter_ le Google Traducteur. Pourtant (?), j'assemble les phrases moi-meme.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 16, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Bien sûr, il est nécessaire de _consulter_ le Google Traducteur. Pourtant,  j'assemble les phrases moi-meme.


Great. Just allow me two little modifications

Honestly, if you are able to say that, you have already the skills for a random discussion in french.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 16, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Great. Just allow me two little modifications
> 
> Honestly, if you are able to say that, you have already the skills for a random discussion in french.



My main problem is that my vocabulary is mostly "content words" - nouns and verbs, since that's what you can learn through osmosis by reading academic English and Swedish.

Whereas I have to look up "function words" like _que_ and _même_ and _pas_ because they were never borrowed into the languages I already know.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## dr_shadow (Apr 16, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Whereas I have to look up "function words" like _que_ and _même_ and _pas_ because they were never borrowed into the languages I already know.



But I'm figuring there can't be *that many* of these, so hopefully I'll have 'em all down by this time next week.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 16, 2022)

@Le Mâle-Pensant

So wait, what, _de_ means both "to" and "of"? 

"De saluer le drapeau de la France"?


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## Hand Banana (Apr 16, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> @Hand Banana
> 
> Tu es éligible voter?


Nope. I have never voted in a French election. Soon as I turned 18 I left to come to the US.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 16, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Except the dead parties (during presidential elections) that are the PS and now the Républicains, you’ll always have a “republican dam” whatever it’s LePen or Melenchon but there is no point to debate about this joke that is this “republican dam”. The criminality is rather stable but high and .
> 
> Regarding immigration, I disagree, Macron is not touch on immigration otherwise we would have so many illegals. Being tough on immigration would be to actively send them back to their country and take the measures to prevent them to come illegally. But maybe we have different standards when regarding being “tough on immigration”. I live in a country where  while in my country, .
> For me it’s done anyways. Macron will probably  be elected again and the country will continue it terrible transformation.
> I gonna stay in Malaysia for now and stop caring about what’s going on in France…


It's your opinion but it's not the opinion of all French people, for some immigration is not a problem but a chance for others it is the cause of all the evils of this country but one thing is certain is that French are extremely divided right now, the political situation of the country is not not without recalling the 2016 election where Trump was elected, the big cities and the rural areas who can no longer get along, the young and the old generation who do not have the same concerns and a populism always stronger and stronger.

Also it's trivial to compare other countries to France like that, we don't have the same history, the same standard of living, the same mentality, many countries don't have a quarter of the benefit and  freedom that France gives us. You have to look at the whole.

we all know very well why France is experiencing massive immigration at the moment and this is largely due to the historical choices of this country. I rather agree on the fact that it is necessary to tighten the migratory conditions in France at the moment on the other hand I do not wish at all that we end up with policies similar to Hungary, Poland, Malaysia, etc.. . most of these countries are far from being ideal societies for me at least.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 16, 2022)

Since the EU has a shared external border and open internal borders, the migration issue should ideally be handled in Brussels. Since a person who is issued a Schengen visa by Sweden can then just step off the plane in Stockholm and board a train for Paris. There is no guarantee that the country who "invited" a person actually ends up being their primary custodian. So there needs to be a pan-European policy on this matter.

And at the moment I think there is probably a majority (?) in the EU for restricting immigration from Muslim non-European countries. At least Sweden has done a 180 on this issue and now backs "as little immigration as possible". The only Swedish parties that are still pro-immigration are the Left and Greens, and they together add up to just 13% of the Swedish legislature. Enough for the pre-2015 _kumbaya_ policy to be considered a "fringe" position.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 16, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Like what ? Criticise Macron for keeping the borders open during the first months of the covid crisis while all our neighbours closed their borders with us ?  Come on. Don’t oppose systematically because of her or her side but because of your personal opinion on the issue. That’s why I believe you are unfair here.


Its honestly quite regular populist tactics. For example they _always_ say ''the current government is too soft on immigration''_ regardless_ of how though the government is or isn't on immigration. Government policy seem to have very little to do with whether or not the populist think there need to be tougher migration laws. I remember back during the migrant crisis that the populists refused to moderate by even an inch even after the much maligned establishment already locked away all the Migrants in Turkey and threw away the key. 

Or a question of safety. Once their appeal to public safety become outdated and it turns out that crime has gone down then they revert to ''well we don't FEEL safe!'' so they can still use that particular argument.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 16, 2022)

*President Emmanuel Macron promised on Saturday to make France the "first great nation" to stop using oil, coal and gas as energy sources, in a pitch to young and green voters he fears could abstain in next week's election runoff.*

In a rally in the Mediterranean city of Marseille, which voted massively for left-wing firebrand Jean-Luc Melenchon in the first round of voting, Macron sought to widen what opinion polls show as a small lead over his far-right rival Marine Le Pen.

Ahead of the April 24 runoff, the presidential race is being fought on the left, with both contenders seeking to attract voters who chose Melenchon in the first round last Sunday.

Macron said he would put his next prime minister directly in charge of what he called "green planning", appealing to left-wing voters' nostalgia for post-war Communist-inspired central planning while tapping into 21st century worries about climate change.

"I have heard the anxiety amongst our young people," Macron told flag-waving supporters at a park overlooking the Old Port in Marseille, France's second city.

"This prime minister's mission will be to make France the first great nation to exit gas, oil and coal. It's possible, and we'll do it," Macron said. "Between coal and gas on one hand, and nuclear on the other, I choose nuclear."

The president wants to build six new nuclear reactors and launch studies for another eight, increase solar energy capacity tenfold and build 50 wind farms at sea by mid-century. He also wants to insulate 700,000 homes per year to save energy.

Macron, a centrist, also said he wanted to create a national day of nature in May every year. He slammed Le Pen as a "climate sceptic".

Melenchon came third on April 10 with more than 21% of the vote and as both runoff candidates seek to attract his supporters, Le Pen is going for the more working-class, rural part of that electorate by focusing on the cost of living, rising food costs and high petrol prices following the war in Ukraine.

Macron, meanwhile, is trying to woo the more educated, centre-left and urban segments of Melenchon supporters.

An opinion poll for Ipsos on Saturday showed 33% of Melenchon's voters planned to vote for Macron, 16% for Le Pen and 51% were undecided.

Thousands of anti-far right protesters marched across the country on Saturday as opponents of Le Pen seek to form a united front to prevent her from winning the runoff. read more

In Marseille, Mehdi Sam, a 25-year old IT engineer and left-wing voter said he found Macron's programme on the environment interesting, but added that his father, who voted Melenchon in the first round, was planning to abstain in the runoff.

"I think that's a mistake. I can understand that not everything suits him (in Macron) ... but we forget what's on the other side: a camp that's extreme, with very negative values, and that's not the France I want for tomorrow," he said.









						Eyeing green vote, Macron vows to exit oil, coal and gas
					

President Emmanuel Macron promised on Saturday to make France the "first great nation" to stop using oil, coal and gas as energy sources, in a pitch to young and green voters he fears could abstain in next week's election runoff.




					www.reuters.com

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 16, 2022)

The real saviour of France isn’t a Macroni or a ink dispenser but a Capet!


vote this guy in will you?!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 16, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> @Le Mâle-Pensant
> 
> So wait, what, _de_ means both "to" and "of"?
> 
> "De saluer le drapeau de la France"?


In this situation, yes but there are different “to” and not only “de” depending the sentence. It’s look complicate but I think it’s something you learn with practice. There are probably a documented explanation for those who learn the language but as a native speaker, it’s difficult to really explain. We know these things by practice.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 16, 2022)

CrownedEagle said:


> It's your opinion but it's not the opinion of all French people, for some immigration is not a problem but a chance for others it is the cause of all the evils of this country but one thing is certain is that French are extremely divided right now, the political situation of the country is not not without recalling the 2016 election where Trump was elected, the big cities and the rural areas who can no longer get along, the young and the old generation who do not have the same concerns and a populism always stronger and stronger.


I agree that it’s my opinion and not everyone share it in France that’s why the whole situation makes me sad for our country.



CrownedEagle said:


> Also it's trivial to compare other countries to France like that, we don't have the same history, the same standard of living, the same mentality, many countries don't have a quarter of the benefit and  freedom that France gives us. You have to look at the whole.


We don’t have the same history, standard of living and mentality but I believe we can learn from others countries. Malaysia is far from being perfect but what I envy from this country is the fact that their nationality still have a meaning. I mean, they put their people first and we, the foreigners, are just guests allowed to live with them as long as we respect their rules. It’s so basic but it should be the same in France at least. 




CrownedEagle said:


> we all know very well why France is experiencing massive immigration at the moment and this is largely due to the historical choices of this country. I rather agree on the fact that it is necessary to tighten the migratory conditions in France at the moment on the other hand I do not wish at all that we end up with policies similar to Hungary, Poland, Malaysia, etc.. . most of these countries are far from being ideal societies for me at least.


If at least if Macron would follow Denmark.
Right now the system is broken and we no more assimilate or integrate anyone. 
It’s rather France that absorbs Algerian culture. It’s become common to be called a “khel” when Algeria lose (or win) against a black African country.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 16, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> "This prime minister's mission will be to make France the first great nation to exit gas, oil and coal. It's possible, and we'll do it," Macron said. "Between coal and gas on one hand, and nuclear on the other, I choose nuclear."


He took a different direction during first term regarding nuclear. The problem is that the Melenchon supporters he tries to attract are against nuclear…


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 17, 2022)

From Macron himself in 2017 in order to criticise Hollande lack of results. Now we are in 2022 and we can all wonder if he agrees with his 2017’s Macron.


*FN is Marine LePen’s former party name.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 17, 2022)

@Le Mâle-Pensant

What is the political stance of _Le Monde_? I notice that they refer to Le Pen as "la candidate d’extrême droite" (_the far-right candidate_), which seems value-laden.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 17, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> @Le Mâle-Pensant
> 
> What is the political stance of _Le Monde_? I notice that they refer to Le Pen as "la candidate d’extrême droite" (_the far-right candidate_), which seems value-laden.


I would say center-left but depending the political orientation some people might say they are center-right (just like how people see Macron depending their own political orientation). I see them as center left.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## blk (Apr 17, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Let me tell you. If Macron decided during his term to seriously limit immigration and  strongly fight against criminality and injustice and get results, Le Pen wouldn’t be in the second round right now.



In that case it would be interesting to see some data on whether crime has increased or decreased during Macron's rule. 

Also what types of crime are we talking about (cause different criminal tendencies can require different measures that aren't simply taking a stronger stance / making more severe punishment, in fact that rarely works). 



And even if all you are saying is true i doubt any damage from crime (which while it can be a problem, we are still talking about something relatively minor like in most developed countries) is greater than the economic damage LePen will cause. 




dergeist said:


> So you're for constantly plundering pensioners and making them live a miserable existence


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## dr_shadow (Apr 17, 2022)

Joyeuses Paqûes.

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## stream (Apr 17, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Joyeuses Paqûes.


glåd pask

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 17, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> I agree that it’s my opinion and not everyone share it in France that’s why the whole situation makes me sad for our country.






Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> We don’t have the same history, standard of living and mentality but I believe we can learn from others countries. Malaysia is far from being perfect but what I envy from this country is the fact that their nationality still have a meaning. I mean, they put their people first and we, the foreigners, are just guests allowed to live with them as long as we respect their rules. It’s so basic but it should be the same in France at least.


Perhaps because their population is perfectly homogeneous and they have the same cultural codes and values which greatly helps the fact that their nationality is correlated to their identity but this is not the case of France. Since the beginning this country is a mixture of several cultures and ethnic groups that share a land. 



Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> If at least if Macron would follow Denmark.


I don't really see how Denmark is a good example to follow, their policy of treating their minority as outcasts is bound to backfire on them in the long run. Immigrants are already there and as we well know, brown people tend to reproduce more than the natives, they will just learn to hate the country in which they were born.



Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Right now the system is broken and we no more assimilate or integrate anyone.
> It’s rather France that absorbs Algerian culture. It’s become common to be called a “khel” when Algeria lose (or win) against a black African country.


 It's not true that many integrate into French culture, it's only a minority that makes noise. Besides, those who make the most noise are generally the children of third or even fourth generation immigrants who were born here.

If you are afraid of the racism that North Africans have towards blacks (which I know well and which I condemn),you may as well fear the one from des souchiens especially with a president who wishes to give full power to a police with fascist tendency  and who has planned to blow up all the laws and associations against discrimination.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

Macron, Le Pen clash on Russia, EU in angry TV debate
					

Macron accused rival Le Pen of being in thrall to Russian President Putin over a years-old Russian bank loan to her party.




					www.reuters.com

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kafuka de Vil (Apr 20, 2022)

I asked my aunt who she was going to vote for. She told me she could never vote for a fascist. So she’s voting Le Pen.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3 | Sad! 2


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## stream (Apr 20, 2022)

I think people on the left have been painting Macron as a fascist to try to give a chance to leftist candidates. This is now backfiring, as some people don't even see a difference between Macron and Le Pen.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

Je vais écouter le débat.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Geralt-Singh (Apr 20, 2022)

Macron is gonna win, but I wouldn't mind having Le Pen winning though, just to anger pisslamists


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## stream (Apr 20, 2022)

It's a dangerous point in politics when your goal is more to make other people angry  than solve your own problems

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 20, 2022)

A few more hours until the debate


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)




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## Alwaysmind (Apr 20, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Je vais écouter le débat.


Just realized that it will be 3 am for you.
I’ll be watching it on France 2’s website.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Just realized that it will be 3 am for you.



La journée de la France est la journée de le monde.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Lewd 1


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## JFF (Apr 20, 2022)

Merci beaucoup !

It was funny last time. Macron won that debate big time. We see if Le Pen learned something.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

@Alwaysmind @Le Mâle-Pensant

En français est necéssaire à utiliser le nom complet de un person? Je decouvré les journalistes toujours disent "Emmanuel Macron" et "Marine Le Pen", non est _Macron_ et _Le Pen _(comme en anglais).

Reactions: Funny 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

Il commence.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 20, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> @Alwaysmind @Le Mâle-Pensant
> 
> En français est necéssaire à utiliser le nom complet de un person? Je decouvré les journalistes toujours disent "Emmanuel Macron" et "Marine Le Pen", non est _Macron_ et _Le Pen _(comme en anglais).


Ça fait plus formel.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

So wait up, doesn't France have any domestic energy production in any of its colonies Overseas Territories? You don't have oil in like French Polynesia or something?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 20, 2022)

Americans should note how civilized countries host presidential debates. It’s on a quiet studio, not in a noisy stadium,

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 20, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> So wait up, doesn't France have any domestic energy production in any of its colonies Overseas Territories? You don't have oil in like French Polynesia or something?


They got fish.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Jim (Apr 20, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Americans should note how civilized countries host presidential debates. It’s on a quiet studio, not in a noisy stadium,


america doesn't follow countries that don't use the english system of units
j/k

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 20, 2022)

Hmmm, she seems to have a new tone on Ukraine


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> They got fish.



I was referring to (what I understood to be) the discussion of rising energy prices as a result of the Russia sanctions. Like, why does France _need _to import oil & gas from Russia in the first place? Shouldn't they have every natural resource on God's Green Earth somewhere in their Overseas Territories?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Hmmm, she seems to have a new tone on Ukraine



This late in the game you have to go for "I never shook hands with Putin even though there's a picture of it."


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## NeoTerraKnight (Apr 20, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 6


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 20, 2022)

I've been taking screenshots as well, though I missed so many screenshotable moments but his face has been great tonight,

Reactions: Funny 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

Lol, "retirement" in French is _retraite_?  In Swedish we've borrowed this word in the sense of (military) retreat.

But I guess the etymology is "pull back". Or "withdraw", really, since I take it -_traite _is a cognate of English_ "_drag/draw".

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 20, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Lol, "retirement" in French is _retraite_?  In Swedish we've borrowed this word in the sense of (military) retreat.
> 
> But I guess the etymology is "pull back". Or "withdraw", really, since I take it -_traite _is a cognate of English_ "_drag/draw".


Well, you are withdrawing from the workforce. If you don't like the term, work till you drop dead like my mother you lazy bastards and the problem is solved.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

@Jim cool it with the "funny" ratings. You're not being funny.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Jim (Apr 20, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> @Jim cool it with the "funny" ratings. You're not being funny.


i wasn't trying to be funny though?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 20, 2022)

I got to say I like le pen ‘s point regarding the slaughter houses


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## Jim (Apr 20, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> I got to say I like le pen ‘s point regarding the slaughter houses


what was it?


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## Yagami1211 (Apr 20, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Lol, "retirement" in French is _retraite_?  In Swedish we've borrowed this word in the sense of (military) retreat.
> 
> But I guess the etymology is "pull back". Or "withdraw", really, since I take it -_traite _is a cognate of English_ "_drag/draw".



It's that too..


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 20, 2022)

Jim said:


> what was it?


Unsustainable  model.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 20, 2022)

Got to say I think I have a crush on the redhead moderator

Reactions: Agree 1


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## NeoTerraKnight (Apr 20, 2022)




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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

When it comes to French Nationalists, I'm more curious to know if they support a free Algeria or not.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

Jesus, how long is this debate? They've been at it for 2 hours now, but I don't feel like they're rounding off. Are they gonna go to 3 hours?


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 20, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Jesus, how long is this debate? They've been at it for 2 hours now, but I don't feel like they're rounding off. Are they gonna go to 3 hours?


I thought it was 2.5 hours long


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

That sounded like a Picard-level speech in favor of religious tolerance.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> I thought it was 2.5 hours long



It's been 2:36 now, and still no sight of a round-off (that I can tell).


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## blk (Apr 20, 2022)

Yeah that ain't very convincing lol

Just an attempt at saving her face at the last moment regarding the Russia, Putin, etc


Btw will the debate be uploaded on YT or somewhere else?


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

blk said:


> Yeah that ain't very convincing lol
> 
> Just an attempt at saving her face at the last moment regarding the Russia, Putin, etc
> 
> ...



You can watch it live on YT.


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## blk (Apr 20, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> You can watch it live on YT.



It says the video is unavailable 


But anyway it's more because i'm about to go to sleep (almost midnight here) so can't watch it now lol
So would have been cool to see it tomorrow and whatnot 


Edit
Ok it works fine if i click on it and watch it directly on yt


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## dr_shadow (Apr 20, 2022)

*French President Emmanuel Macron and far-right challenger Marine Le Pen clashed in a heated debate on Wednesday over who would be best placed to improve voters' purchasing power and lead the country, in their only confrontation before Sunday's election.*

The televised debate was tense throughout, peppered with "don't interrupt me," "this is wrong," and accusations from each to the other of having a shrivelled, unambitious vision of France and its future. read more

"Stop mixing everything up," a combative Macron told Le Pen during a tense exchange about France's debt.

"Don't lecture me," Le Pen responded, attacking her rival on his record in office and avoiding the pitfalls of their previous debate, in 2017, when her presidential bid unravelled as she mixed up her notes and lost her footing.

For Le Pen, who lags Macron in voter surveys, the much awaited debate was a chance to persuade voters she has the stature to be president and they should not fear seeing the far-right in power.

"I will make it my absolute priority over the next five years to give the French their money back," Le Pen said, adding that the French had "suffered" throughout Macron's mandate. read more

"I would like to tell them that another choice is possible," Le Pen said, adding: "I will be the president of the cost of living."

One of Macron's strongest lines of attack against his far-right rival was her past admiration of Russian President Vladimir Putin and a loan for the 2017 campaign contracted through a Russian bank.

"You depend on the Russian power, you depend on Mr Putin. You took out a loan from a Russian bank," Macron told his opponent.

"A lot of your choices can be explained by this dependence," he said, adding: "You don't speak to other leaders, you speak to your banker when you speak to Russia, that's the problem."

In the heated exchange on Russia, during which Macron at one point told Le Pen "Are you kidding me?" Le Pen rejected the accusations, saying: "I am a completely free and independent woman."

*HEATED DEBATE*

The debate, which started at 9 p.m. (1900 GMT), was due to last 2-1/2 hours.

With unemployment at a 13-year low, Macron said he was proud of job creation during his term and added: "the best way to gain purchasing power is to fight unemployment."

The two candidates kept accusing each other of failing to respond to voters' real concerns, with Le Pen saying that "in real life" her proposals would improve voters' situation much more than her opponent, while Macron said many of her proposals were not realistic.

"Mrs Le Pen, what you said is inaccurate," Macron told his opponent about her proposals to slash VAT to improve purchasing power. Le Pen said Macron's cost of living proposals would be inefficient and unfair.

*OPPOSING VISIONS*

Some 14% of voters were waiting for the debate to decide who to vote for, while 12% said it would be decisive for whether they will vote at all, a poll by OpinionWay-Kea Partners for Les Echos newspaper showed.

The election presents voters with two opposing visions of France: Macron offers a pro-European, liberal platform, while Le Pen's nationalist manifesto is founded on deep euroscepticism.

Much haggling went on behind the scenes ahead of the debate, from the temperature of the room to flipping a coin to decide which theme they would start with - the cost of living - to who would speak first - Le Pen.

After more than half of the electorate voted for far-right or hard left candidates in the first round on April 10, Macron's lead in opinion polls is much narrower than five years ago, when he beat Le Pen with 66.1% of the vote. Voter surveys on Wednesday projected he would win with 55.5-56.5% this time.

Macron is no longer the disruptor from outside politics that he was in the 2017 debate, which at the time cemented his status as the clear front-runner.

Le Pen has tacked towards mainstream voters and worked hard at softening her image.









						Macron, Le Pen clash on Russia, EU in angry TV debate
					

Macron accused rival Le Pen of being in thrall to Russian President Putin over a years-old Russian bank loan to her party.




					www.reuters.com

Reactions: Informative 1


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## stream (Apr 20, 2022)

It's funny how presidents tend to make claims about what they'll do about the economy, when they can rarely do much one way or another, even if people had a clue. Like GWB's terms ended with a monumental crisis, which almost no economist saw coming... Why would we think that other presidents have a better grasp of things?


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## JFF (Apr 20, 2022)

The Multiverse calls (App work while listening to the debate; and needed inspiration) 

Well, fairly interesting debate. Hash at times, but not as clear as last time.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 20, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> That sounded like a Picard-level speech in favor of religious tolerance.


I was quite impressed. In North America the debate goes like this:

- religious scarves are anti-woman, secularism is pro-woman! - why are you racist and xenophobe? - why are you anti-woman - easy insult -easy insult Tonight it was fresh to hear Macron ask if Le Pen would rather have police waste time chasing people down the streets for relatively minor clothing infractions rather than serious criminals. And that it would essentially be like declaring war on its own populace, which is really a brilliant counterpoint.

it is rooted in Enlightenment ideas, but as Macron tactfully retorted, so is acceptance of differences in the streets outside of the government. 

I see your pair of two's and raise you a pair of 3's

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## NeoTerraKnight (Apr 20, 2022)

What did I just say?


What did I just freaking say, @dergeist?

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## NeoTerraKnight (Apr 20, 2022)

And who could forget this?


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 21, 2022)

Here’s an interesting analysis


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 21, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Here’s an interesting analysis


Interesting....except I have no idea what they're saying

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 21, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> Interesting....except I have no idea what they're saying


Gimme a sec. I was in the process of translating.

essentially, no clear winner. Le Pen was much calmer and stately than in 2017.

macron won points with Russia where she barely defended herself.

Le Pen focusing on her plan rather than just attack after attack on macron.

macron looked condescending which again gontrasted with Le Pen attempting to look calm under fire.

all and all; the debate might not be enough to overwhelmingly move voters to one camp or another.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 21, 2022)

I would agree that Le Pen looked calm and that it’s hard to say if one side truly won the debate. I would agree that Macron had more points but le pen scored some other ones as well. At times she did put Macron on the spot and her rants whether factual or speculative have made Macron lose patience quite a lot.

and yet, macron also looked legitimate interested in listening to what Le Pen was saying.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 21, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> @Alwaysmind @Le Mâle-Pensant
> 
> En français est necéssaire à utiliser le nom complet de un person? Je decouvré les journalistes toujours disent "Emmanuel Macron" et "Marine Le Pen", non est _Macron_ et _Le Pen _(comme en anglais).


I never really paid attention to this but I guess when you make informative report, it’s better to say the full name while during a debate between journalists on TV, it’s ok to say just Macron or Lepen.


dr_shadow said:


> Lol, "retirement" in French is _retraite_?  In Swedish we've borrowed this word in the sense of (military) retreat.
> 
> But I guess the etymology is "pull back". Or "withdraw", really, since I take it -_traite _is a cognate of English_ "_drag/draw".


Retraite have also this military meaning in French.


Alwaysmind said:


> Gimme a sec. I was in the process of translating.
> 
> essentially, no clear winner. Le Pen was much calmer and stately than in 2017.
> 
> ...


It fit with what I read on Twitter (I didn’t watched the debate and don’t want to watch it). Lepen tried to fix her mistake from her 2017 debate (she was too aggressive) but this time she was almost blamed to be too calm and not attacking him with all the scandals that recently come out in him.

This election, like the 2017, is a scandal when you look at the 2 weeks before the second round. It’s during these 2 weeks, we become a one-party state. There is a huge political and  media pressure to vote Macron during this two weeks and if you don’t follow the move, .

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 21, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Here’s an interesting analysis

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 21, 2022)

Breaking news


Jean-Luc #Mélenchon emerged as the winner of the debate between Emmanuel #Macron and Marine Le Pen, according to MP LFI Alexis Corbière. (BFMTV)

Reactions: Funny 2


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## dr_shadow (Apr 21, 2022)

Based the impression he gave in the debate, I feel comfortable with Macron possibly succeeding Merkel as leader of the EU. _Vive l'empereur_.


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 21, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Based the impression he gave in the debate, I feel comfortable with Macron possibly succeeding Merkel as leader of the EU. _Vive l'empereur_.


Nah. King Mark's gonna beat him up and take the throne.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 21, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Based the impression he gave in the debate, I feel comfortable with Macron possibly succeeding Merkel as leader of the EU. _Vive l'empereur_.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 21, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Got to say I think I have a crush on the redhead moderator

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 21, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> Nah. King Mark's gonna beat him up and take the throne.


Don’t be so sure.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 21, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> I never really paid attention to this but I guess when you make informative report, it’s better to say the full name while during a debate between journalists on TV, it’s ok to say just Macron or Lepen.
> 
> Retraite have also this military meaning in French.
> 
> ...


It’s the issue with analyzing yesterdays history. It’s too early to really say what works and what didn’t. In politics, you often can’t win.
Had she attacked him, it could have been perceived as a Trumpish pettiness, but if she didn’t it would be « why are you even on the stage? »

i can appreciate that she didn’t go on the attack.
Sometimes in politics you win like this:

you can win by not talking about your opponent.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 21, 2022)

One of the last stops for Le Pen.


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## blk (Apr 21, 2022)

Macron stomped.


Le Pen confirms she is basically for soft autarky (or "economic nationalism" as she called it iirc) and against free market  models, which 100% leads to less prosperity and more poverty.
It's also contradictory to talk about increasing productivity while negating trade, since w/out the second you generally get the opposite effect (i.e your economy is less productive because you are artificially protecting fields - by blocking competition - that aren't efficient compared to other places, thus taking away human capital from the fields where you do excel and produce high added value).



Another contradiction is how she keeps insisting that she isn't for leaving EU but wants to reform it in a "Europe of nations", but as Macron pointed out you can't just change rules of a group by yourself.
So either everybody agree (and they won't) or you have to get out of the group.

So while Le Pen states she isn't for leaving the EU, practically she is.

Unless, as i've said, she is simply lying to french voters about her policies (that will either not be implemented, or only in part to not go against EU laws).


She also wants to decrease taxes and increase pensions iirc (how the hell does she expects this to go well in terms of public debt... it's kinda a similar shit to what politicians did in Italy and look at the results).


Her proposal of dismantling _existing_ wind & solar assets is also insane.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 21, 2022)

It’s also funny that she uses the term « silent majority «  and I’m like, French majority is constantly on strike making noises.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 21, 2022)

blk said:


> Macron stomped.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It won’t be a contradiction anymore if she gets in and buddies with the likes of Croatia.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 21, 2022)

Good meme always come out of these debate.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 21, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Got to say I think I have a crush on the redhead moderator

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Mider T (Apr 21, 2022)

Congrats on the win Macron.

Reactions: Optimistic 2 | Lewd 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 21, 2022)

Mider T said:


> Congrats on the win Macron.



...said the citizen of "Trump will never win."


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## Mider T (Apr 21, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> ...said the citizen of "Trump will never win."


Hopefully the same stolen hijinks don't happen in France as well.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 21, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> ...said the citizen of "Trump will never win."





Mider T said:


> Hopefully the same stolen hijinks don't happen in France as well.



Speaking of Nicon, a sweaty Frost/Nixon special is coming, I mean Morgan/Trump:


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 22, 2022)

Les deux semaines entre les 2 tours sont quand même bien étrange. Et encore, je vis cela de l’extérieur sans vraiment suivre les médias.


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 22, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Les deux semaines entre les 2 tours sont quand même bien étrange. Et encore, je vis cela de l’extérieur sans vraiment suivre les médias.


Wut? Ik versta je niet. Ik spreek geen Frans.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 22, 2022)

I'm kinda leaning to a close Le Pen victory since conditions in France seem so unstable. And when things absolutely need to go right they tend to go wrong.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 22, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> Wut? Ik versta je niet. Ik spreek geen Frans.



Jag förstår alla språk.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## BlueDemon (Apr 22, 2022)

She ain't winning. Else we're fucked.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## stream (Apr 22, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Jag förstår alla språk.


ಸವಾಲನ್ನು ಸ್ವೀಕರಿಸಲಾಗಿದೆ

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 22, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> I'm kinda leaning to a close Le Pen victory since conditions in France seem so unstable. And when things absolutely need to go right they tend to go wrong.


I don’t think she’ll win. I don’t think any other candidates could even win against him. By default he is in advance and there is a political and media pressure on people to support Macron. It’s really 2 weeks where the media basically dictate what to vote…


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 22, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Les deux semaines entre les 2 tours sont quand même bien étrange. Et encore, je vis cela de l’extérieur sans vraiment suivre les médias.


The biggest crime is that she keeps saying “interview” when the word is ENTREVUE!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 22, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> The biggest crime is that she keeps saying “interview” when the word is ENTREVUE!


Unfortunately the word « interview » is mainstream in France. It’s when started to watched videos from Nouvelle France (Quebec) that I realise there is a french version for the word « interview ».

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 22, 2022)

BlueDemon said:


> She ain't winning. Else we're fucked.


That’s what we said for Trump but here we are!

it’s kinda funny that her partisan’s rally cry is Présidente Marine! Instead of Présidente Le Pen!


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## Mider T (Apr 22, 2022)

stream said:


> ಸವಾಲನ್ನು ಸ್ವೀಕರಿಸಲಾಗಿದೆ

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 22, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Unfortunately the word « interview » is mainstream in France. It’s when started to watched videos from Nouvelle France (Quebec) that I realise there is a french version for the word « interview ».


When I heard her word crime:


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 22, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> When I heard her word crime:

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jim (Apr 22, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> That’s what we said for Trump but here we are!


We're still recovering


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 22, 2022)




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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 23, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> So wait up, doesn't France have any domestic energy production in any of its  Overseas Territories? You don't have oil in like French Polynesia or something?


You mean fossil energy like oil or gas ? No we don’t. We suspected a possible source or oil or gas (don’t remember exactly) near Guiana but if I’m not wrong, the research were discontinued for environmental reasons (need to make research to really know what happened.
I know that Réunion try to be self sufficient by developing biomass.


Alwaysmind said:


> Americans should note how civilized countries host presidential debates. It’s on a quiet studio, not in a noisy stadium,


It’s really because it’s the second round debate. This is the debate where the candidates need to show the president they’ll be. It must be a civilised face to face. In 2017, it wasn’t a civilised one and people (me included) were not happy to be the witness of this pathetic show. It looks like this time it was better but the irony is that some people would prefer to see the aggressive 2017 Marine LePen against the 2022 Macron.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 23, 2022)

That's the final poll before the election right?


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 23, 2022)

It’s the first time I vote from abroad. It’s well organised.

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Garcher (Apr 23, 2022)

after UK voting Brexit and US voting Trump it's now France's turn to go full retard and elect Le Pen


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## Keishin (Apr 23, 2022)

Garcher said:


> after UK voting Brexit and US voting Trump it's now France's turn to go full retard and elect Le Pen











						European Union is 'useless and corrupt' says former Thatcher aide
					

Why should the UK throw another £12 billion a year down these mafia and assorted criminal drains, Sir Bernard Ingham asked




					www.independent.co.uk

Reactions: Informative 1 | Creative 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

less than 10 hours till the 6th Republic.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 24, 2022)

It’s historical. The first results from the french overseas territories next to the Americas are won by Marine Lepen. In the first round it was mostly won by Melenchon.
It’s historical because it’s probably the first time Lepen win there. The anger against Macron, especially in Guadeloupe is huge that they rather vote Lepen.

This probably not representative of the vote in mainland.


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 24, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> It’s historical. The first results from the french overseas territories next to the Americas are won by Marine Lepen. In the first round it was mostly won by Melenchon.
> It’s historical because it’s probably the first time Lepen win there. The anger against Macron, especially in Guadeloupe is huge that they rather vote Lepen.
> 
> This probably not representative of the vote in mainland.


Le terme region ultramarine n'avais jamais aussi bien porter son nom.

Mais aucune surprise beaucoup de membres de mon entourage m'avais dit que ce serait tout sauf macron.


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## dergeist (Apr 24, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> It’s historical. The first results from the french overseas territories next to the Americas are won by Marine Lepen. In the first round it was mostly won by Melenchon.
> It’s historical because it’s probably the first time Lepen win there. The anger against Macron, especially in Guadeloupe is huge that they rather vote Lepen.
> 
> This probably not representative of the vote in mainland.



This sounds like it might be interesting.


I'm not sure I trust the poll especially with older age bracket


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## stream (Apr 24, 2022)

There's a reason the older generations might be against Le Pen. For them, she probably reminds them of her father, who was provocatively racist. She has changed the name of the party, but many doubt the fundamental platform has changed.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 24, 2022)




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## stream (Apr 24, 2022)

I have doubts about having riots after the results. From what I could see, people were not particularly heated up about it. In fact, the majority seemed rather resigned. Also, due to the absolute majority criterion, there are less opportunities to cry election fraud or complain about undemocratic results than in the US.


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## Yagami1211 (Apr 24, 2022)




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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 24, 2022)

dergeist said:


> This sounds like it might be interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I trust the poll especially with older age bracket


Now now. We all know of Macron's fondness for the elderly

Reactions: Lewd 2


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 24, 2022)

One minute left


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## RavenSupreme (Apr 24, 2022)

REELECTED

Reactions: Winner 1 | Friendly 1


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 24, 2022)

Macron reelected.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Friendly 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 24, 2022)

And so Europe gets to live another day. If the exit poll turns out to be correct at least.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

Sorry for the loss @Le Mâle-Pensant

Reactions: Funny 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

Vive l'empereur!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eros (Apr 24, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Sorry for the loss @Le Mâle-Pensant


He will be alright.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 24, 2022)

I wonder how much the Ukrainian Invasion factored into Macron's victory, especially since until then Li Pen's connections with Putin weren't toxic like they are now.


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## Rukia (Apr 24, 2022)

I see that France had to choose between two losers just like the United States.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

French presidents are constitutionally forbidden from serving more than two consecutive terms, so barring a constitutional amendment this will likely be the last Macron term. Although it was mentioned earlier in the thread that he might extend the term length from 5 to 7 years, in which case I guess he could be in office to 2029.

Then we'll see if he "does a Putin" and lets a placeholder warm the seat 2029-2036 so he can come back 2036-2050. Probably not, though: as far as I know no French ex-president has ever run for a third term even though they would have been eligible.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> French presidents are constitutionally forbidden from serving more than two consecutive terms, so barring a constitutional amendment this will likely be the last Macron term. Although it was mentioned earlier in the thread that he might extend the term length from 5 to 7 years, in which case I guess he could be in office to 2029.
> 
> Then we'll see if he "does a Putin" and lets a placeholder warm the seat 2029-2036 so he can come back 2036-2050. Probably not, though: as far as I know no French ex-president has ever run for a third term even though they would have been eligible.


Well since presidential terms were originally 7 years and only have been 5 for 22 years, that’s less then a generation, it shouldn’t be seen as radical Putin like behaviour


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## Gin (Apr 24, 2022)

so why do so many people dislike macron that this was even at all close

i know very little of euro politics but from what i've observed he seems pretty good, probably extremely good by the standards of my own (USA) nation


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 24, 2022)

Gin said:


> so why do so many people dislike macron that this was even at all close
> 
> i know very little of euro politics but from what i've observed he seems pretty good, probably extremely good by the standards of my own (USA) nation


A 58% to 41% doesn't seem very close at all, its a 17 point gap.


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## Gin (Apr 24, 2022)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> A 58% to 41% doesn't seem very close at all, its a 17 point gap.


41% of people voting for a far right nutjob is close enough

i'm aware trump had a higher % but i kinda count on the average euro voter to not be quite as   and driven by bigotry as the average murikan voter

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 24, 2022)

Gin said:


> so why do so many people dislike macron that this was even at all close
> 
> i know very little of euro politics but from what i've observed he seems pretty good, probably extremely good by the standards of my own (USA) nation


But then again even flesh eating bugs would seem extremely good compared to the US standard.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

Gin said:


> so why do so many people dislike macron that this was even at all close
> 
> i know very little of euro politics but from what i've observed he seems pretty good, probably extremely good by the standards of my own (USA) nation





SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> A 58% to 41% doesn't seem very close at all, its a 17 point gap.



By US standards, a 58% popular vote win is Reagan-level.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

Gin said:


> so why do so many people dislike macron that this was even at all close
> 
> i know very little of euro politics but from what i've observed he seems pretty good, probably extremely good by the standards of my own (USA) nation





SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> A 58% to 41% doesn't seem very close at all, its a 17 point gap.


Last time they met the difference was 60 - 33 

tonight’s results were not that close but she did close the gap


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## Gin (Apr 24, 2022)

i guess i used to be overly critical of people in power when i was younger but since trump.. yeah, i'll be content never to bitch about a politician again as long as we never get anyone as bad as him again in my lifetime (we most likely will tho  )

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 24, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Last time they met the difference was 60 - 33
> 
> tonight’s results were not that close but she did close the gap


Surprised her campaigning in the oversea territories was the reason why she closed the gap that much. But honestly it'd have taken a major screw up by Macron to lose.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Surprised her campaigning in the oversea territories was the reason why she closed the gap that much. But honestly it'd have taken a major screw up by Macron to lose.


A vote for someone is sometimes not a vote for someone but a vote against someone or something else. I know an immigré who voted LePen but took no rejoice in following the campaign and I’m surprised that he even watched 5 minutes of the debate replay.
He kept saying macron will ruin France, a reminiscence of begat French were saying after Holland’s term.

and again, with a 40% loss they can still carry that as a win to the legislative in June to block macron


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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

It was narrower than last time, though. In 2017 Le Pen only got 34%. Now she's at projected 41%. So it would look that if she keeps running, she'll eventually win.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> It was narrower than last time, though. In 2017 Le Pen only got 34%. Now she's at projected 41%. So it would look that if she keeps running, she'll eventually win.


Putin will be dead by then and embalmed at the kremlin, but if Putin is dead, can she really win without her banker?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 24, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Putin will be dead by then and embalmed at the kremlin, but if Putin is dead, can she really win without her banker?


Speaking of Putin, does anyone else think he's actually terminally ill considering his rash actions of the invasion of Ukraine?


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Speaking of Putin, does anyone else think he's actually terminally ill considering his rash actions of the invasion of Ukraine?


That a question for the other thread but no one declares a war because they have terminal cancer.

polisci should stop saying stupid shit. But if they did, they wouldn’t be political scientists anymore.


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## RavenSupreme (Apr 24, 2022)

I think it gets overshadowed a little but in Slovenia the liberal party won the election as well,  defeating the currently ruling right leaning and tending to Orbanism party from the incumbent

Good result as well

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 3


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> fuck


Not sorry for your loss. The far right didn’t get the prize this round and will have to content themselves with the consolation participation trophy that is the legislative election.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

RavenSupreme said:


> I think it gets overshadowed a little but in Slovenia the liberal party won the election as well,  defeating the currently ruling right leaning and tending to Orbanism party from the incumbent
> 
> Good result as well


I know a guy who will get plastered because of that


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## NeoTerraKnight (Apr 24, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> fuck



Next time, don't run a candidate that is heavily tied to Putin.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Jim (Apr 24, 2022)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> Next time, don't run a candidate that is heavily tied to Putin.


But then how would they elect someone they want?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Pliskin (Apr 24, 2022)

Oh wow. Congrats. That was a loooooot less of a close call than the doom and gloom before made it sounds.

Kudos to France!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 24, 2022)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Speaking of Putin, does anyone else think he's actually terminally ill considering his rash actions of the invasion of Ukraine?


I suspect so. He doesn't look very healthy. Kinda bloated if you compare him from a few years back.


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 24, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> fuck


Disappointed that Putin didn't win?


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> Disappointed that Le Pen’s banker didn't win?


Fixed for accuracy


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 24, 2022)

Gin said:


> so why do so many people dislike macron that this was even at all close
> 
> i know very little of euro politics but from what i've observed he seems pretty good, probably extremely good by the standards of my own (USA) nation


He is extremely condescending and arrogant toward us, phrases like "just cross the street to find a job" "Fuck "the unvaccinated" to the bitter end" "Gauls resistant to change" when he compares us to the Danes, "A station is a place where we crosses successful people and people who are nothing" when he inaugurates start-up incubator in this one did not help to endear him. Not to mention his policy which puts the middle and poor classes on their knees while he always gives more gifts to the bourgeois and the ultra-rich.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## JFF (Apr 24, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> French presidents are constitutionally forbidden from serving more than two consecutive terms, so barring a constitutional amendment this will likely be the last Macron term. Although it was mentioned earlier in the thread that he might extend the term length from 5 to 7 years, in which case I guess he could be in office to 2029.
> 
> Then we'll see if he "does a Putin" and lets a placeholder warm the seat 2029-2036 so he can come back 2036-2050. Probably not, though: as far as I know no French ex-president has ever run for a third term even though they would have been eligible.


And I think that is actually good. Its not like he has todo this or that to get re-elected.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

CrownedEagle said:


> He is extremely condescending and arrogant toward us, phrases like "just cross the street to find a job" "Fuck "the unvaccinated" to the bitter end" "Gauls resistant to change" when he compares us to the Danes, "A station is a place where we crosses successful people and people who are nothing" when he inaugurates start-up incubator in this one did not help to endear him. Not to mention his policy which puts the middle and poor classes on their knees while he always gives more gifts to the bourgeois and the ultra-rich.


Yes, the unvaxed who do so for non legitimate reasons can go ce faire foutre


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Apr 24, 2022)

Europe as a whole dodged yet another bullet, Slovenia also got rid of their borderline far-right prime minister, hopefully this far-right/populist wave is finally ending.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Friendly 2


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

the_notorious_Z.É. said:


> Europe as a whole dodged yet another bullet, Slovenia also got rid of their borderline far-right prime minister, hopefully this far-right/populist wave is finally ending.


From what I hear and heard, the debate in Slovenia ended in disaster with half the stage walking out

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mider T (Apr 24, 2022)

Mider T said:


> Congrats on the win Macron.


Damn I'm good.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Eros (Apr 24, 2022)

Mider T said:


> Damn I'm good.


I also had a strong feeling he would be victorious.


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## Mider T (Apr 24, 2022)

Eros said:


> I also had a strong feeling he would be victorious.


Nah you didn't say it, therefore doesn't count.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

And Sweden and Finland joining NATO (probably).



Which will mean 23/27 EU members (85%) will also be NATO members, leaving Austria, Ireland, Cyprus, and Malta the only hold-outs. (Austria the most awkward since they're a landlocked country with mostly NATO neighbors. The other three are kind of "fine, whatever" since they're islands)

This should mean more European defense cooperation, since a hypothetical "European Army" and the like won't have to struggle with accomodating both NATO and non-NATO member states.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 24, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Yes, the unvaxed who do so for non legitimate reasons can go ce faire foutre


it doesn't matter your opinion of them, this is no way to address your citizens especially when you're President.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 24, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> From what I hear and heard, the debate in Slovenia ended in disaster with half the stage walking out


That does sound like an interesting story that sadly isn't reported on.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> That does sound like an interesting story that sadly isn't reported on.












You can rewatch it here

Around the 12 minute mark one guy gives the finger to someone else 


after pointing out corruption in the government.and being kicked out of the European council. Hour later, they started to walk out because the moderator sucked and also antagonized people on the stage

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

CrownedEagle said:


> it doesn't matter your opinion of them, this is no way to address your citizens especially when you're President.


Leaders often have potty mouths and during a worldwide pandemic, the captain of the ship has to lead. You can’t mount a rescue if people go their own separate ways.


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## Eros (Apr 24, 2022)

Mider T said:


> Nah you didn't say it, therefore doesn't count.


K


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> And Sweden and Finland joining NATO (probably).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Speaking of awkward Austrian policies;


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## BlueDemon (Apr 24, 2022)

Looking forward to the next election....NOT


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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

We'll see if my comrades in the Socialist Party get annihilated in the legislative election or not. 

The just-concluded presidential election was their worst showing ever, with their candidate Hidalgo getting less than 2% (!) in the first round. Contrast with Miterrand getting 43% in the 1974 first round and 54% in the 1988 second round.

The 2017 legislative election was _also_ their worst-ever, with them winning only 5% of the seats.


So now I'm legit concerned that they might be eliminated from the National Assembly altogether.


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 24, 2022)




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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

Capitol stormer copycats?


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 24, 2022)

This black Lepen supporter came to support her at her HQ but was turned away by her security guards. No matter how much you cape for them they will only see and treat you like Monkey at the end of the day.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Friendly 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 24, 2022)

Is this the silent majority yelling down in the streets?


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## makeoutparadise (Apr 24, 2022)

So the french didn’t choose the evil  fascist 

quelle suprise


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 24, 2022)

CrownedEagle said:


> He is extremely condescending and arrogant toward us, phrases like "just cross the street to find a job" "Fuck "the unvaccinated" to the bitter end" "Gauls resistant to change" when he compares us to the Danes, "A station is a place where we crosses successful people and people who are nothing" when he inaugurates start-up incubator in this one did not help to endear him. Not to mention his policy which puts the middle and poor classes on their knees while he always gives more gifts to the bourgeois and the ultra-rich.


Someone saying fuck the unvaccinated is basically a reason for me to vote for them. 

We have to clear out these plague rats.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Saishin (Apr 24, 2022)

First president to be re-elected for a second mandate in 20 years.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Saishin (Apr 24, 2022)

the_notorious_Z.É. said:


> Europe as a whole dodged yet another bullet, Slovenia also got rid of their borderline far-right prime minister, hopefully this far-right/populist wave is finally ending.


Hopefully, depending on how the social-economic problems are serious in the single countries. 
People tend to vote for populist / far right parties when economic/social crisis are hitting in a way or another badly the daily life.

Reactions: Like 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

Saishin said:


> First president to be re-elected for a second mandate in 20 years.



The "one-term president" Sarkozy (2007-2012) was from the same party as Chirac (1995-2007), though, so I think this way of expressing it is misleading. He was more the third term of the conservatives than a single term.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 24, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Is this the silent majority yelling down in the streets?


From what I heard, it’s the antifas.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> The country will slowly divide itself and be dissolved in the EU.



La France est le centre kulturelle d'Europe. Le succès d'Europe est le succès de la France.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 24, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> La France est le centre kulturelle d'Europe. Le succès d'Europe est le succès de la France.


why you deleted my comment ? I didn’t break any rules ? You cannot delete a comment just because you don’t like it or disagree with it. Especially regarding the election of my country. I think I’m pretty much concerned. Can you please explain at least in PM ?


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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> why you deleted my comment ? I didn’t break any rules ? You cannot delete a comment just because you don’t like it or disagree with it. Especially regarding the election of my country. I think I’m pretty much concerned. Can you please explain at least in PM ?



Mbxx did it, not me.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 24, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> La France est le centre kulturelle d'Europe. Le succès d'Europe est le succès de la France.


It was the case decades ago. It’s finished. What cultural influences have France in Europe nowadays?


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 24, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Mbxx did it, not me.


Sorry my mistake. Since you commented it I believe it was you. I guess I won’t have any explanation.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> What cultural influences have France in Europe nowadays?



Fashion, food, football...

Reactions: Like 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

On a personal note, we also recall that the King of Sweden is a Frenchman.

In fact, the only Frenchman who is still a monarch. The only Bonapartist who survived.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 24, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Fashion, food, football...


Fashion and food, it’s rather the US that culturally influence Europe and their influence is even deeper because this is their language the Europeans want to use to talk to each other within the EU institutions. The cultural influence of France is on the decline in Europe. What you said was correct decades ago but to be fair, it’s not because of Macron.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Fashion and food, it’s rather the US that culturally influence Europe and their influence is even deeper because this is their language the Europeans want to use to talk to each other within the EU institutions. The cultural influence of France is on the decline in Europe. What you said was correct decades ago.



I said that France was the cultural center of *Europe*, not the world, obviously. All European countries are of course more influenced by the US than they are by each other. But if we take the US out of the equation, I think France has more soft power over the EU than for example Germany has.

France has a much smaller population, area, and economy than the US, so unless there's a Napoleon IV on the way somewhere, the only way France is going to have any influence outside its home continent will be via the EU. Of course the EU isn't going to be a French vassal empire, but it will probably be _more _conductive to French interests than if you try to go it alone.

A France that is not part of the EU or NATO would probably have like South Korea-level global influence. Whether you think that is good or bad.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 24, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> I said that France was the cultural center of *Europe*, not the world, obviously. All European countries are of course more influenced by the US than they are by each other. But if we take the US out of the equation, I think France has more soft power over the EU than for example Germany has.
> 
> France has a much smaller population, area, and economy than the US, so unless there's a Napoleon IV on the way somewhere, the only way France is going to have any influence outside its home continent will be via the EU. Of course the EU isn't going to be a French vassal empire, but it will probably be _more _conductive to French interests than if you try to go it alone.
> 
> A France that is not part of the EU or NATO would probably have like South Korea-level global influence. Whether you think that is good or bad.


I didn’t say the world, I said Europe and I disagree with you. France is no more the cultural center of Europe. It’s finished. If you can prove me that I’m wrong, go ahead but I reply to you that when it come to fashion and food. It’s the US that influence Europe, not France.
I also disagree when you say France have more soft power int he EU than Germany based on what we can read here previously. It’s you guys that often say in this forums that Germany is the leader of the EU.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> I didn’t say the world, I said Europe and I disagree with you. France is no more the cultural center of Europe. It’s finished. If you can prove me that I’m wrong, go ahead but I reply to you that when it come to fashion and food. It’s the US that influence Europe, not France.



What is (was) your solution to this problem? How will France challenge the US?


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## Mider T (Apr 24, 2022)

Wouldn't be France without protests.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 24, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> What is (was) your solution to this problem? How will France challenge the US?


It’s a matter of political will. If the country really wanted to be the cultural center of Europe, they could by just doing what South Korea doing.
I’m in Malaysia and when I login on Netflix (US platform), the top 10 is dominated by Korean tv shows. When I enter in a store, I hear K-pop music and most of foreign food restaurant are Korean or Japanese. France definitely doesn’t have this influence on Europe.
But I just reply to your question regarding culture. Honesty, this is not the most important thing that worry me with the country like I stated in my comment deleted previously


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## dr_shadow (Apr 24, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> It’s a matter of political will. If the country really wanted to be the cultural center of Europe, they could by just doing what South Korea doing.
> I’m in Malaysia and when I login on Netflix (US platform), the top 10 is dominated by Korean tv shows. When I enter in a store, I hear K-pop music and most of foreign food restaurant are Korean or Japanese. France definitely doesn’t have this influence on Europe.
> But I just reply to your question, honestly, this is not the most important thing that worry me with the country.



Do you think South Korean soft power is due to the "political will" of Seoul or due to the world simply "liking" South Korean culture?

Like, is state subsidies what supports K-dramas and K-pop?


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 24, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> Do you think South Korean soft power is due to the "political will" of Seoul or due to the world simply "liking" South Korean culture?
> 
> Like, is state subsidies what supports K-dramas and K-pop?


I think it’s a mix of political will with private companies. We can see how South Korea promote their country and tourism with the help of these productions. Unlike Japan, they clearly understood it could benefit them. It’s just simply due to people “liking”, South Korean culture.

A quick research


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 24, 2022)

I no more want to hear about protests or things like the Gilets Jaunes. Now that he was re-elected, those who are not satisfied by the situation in the country must learn to live with the problems or leave the country because there are no ways you can be heard now.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 24, 2022)

...could @Le Mâle-Pensant be anymore nationalistic? Seriously why is one of our only French posters part of the Far Right?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mider T (Apr 24, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> It’s a matter of political will. If the country really wanted to be the cultural center of Europe, they could by just doing what South Korea doing.
> I’m in Malaysia and when I login on Netflix (US platform), the top 10 is dominated by Korean tv shows. When I enter in a store, I hear K-pop music and most of foreign food restaurant are Korean or Japanese. France definitely doesn’t have this influence on Europe.
> But I just reply to your question regarding culture. Honesty, this is not the most important thing that worry me with the country like I stated in my comment deleted previously


France isn't going to become more powerful or influential by going it alone.  No country is, but especially not a country not named USA, China, India.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 24, 2022)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...could @Le Mâle-Pensant be *anymore nationalistic? *Seriously why is one of our only French posters part of the Far Right?


I don’t support a Frexit unlike some poster here who supported a Brexit. This is a high level of nationalism to me. I don’t spend my time hoping for the destruction of the EU unlike these people. I would prefer it to take a different direction. Are we allowed to have different opinions ?


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 24, 2022)

Mider T said:


> France isn't going to become more powerful or influential by going it alone.  No country is, but especially not a country not named USA, China, India.


Our discussion with @dr_shadow was on cultural influence. Not power or influence in general. I already said many time that I don’t support a Frexit.


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## Mider T (Apr 24, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Our discussion with @dr_shadow was on cultural influence. Not power or influence in general. I already said many time that I don’t support a Frexit.





> France isn't going to become more powerful or *influential* by going it alone.


Cultural influence falls under this.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 24, 2022)

Mider T said:


> Cultural influence falls under this.


Influence in general include many aspects and can exclude cultural influence. Russia and South Korea are perfect examples. South Korea have probably a stronger cultural influence compared to Russia but in general Russia is a bigger influencer.


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## Mider T (Apr 24, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Influence in general include many aspects and can exclude cultural influence. Russia and South Korea are perfect examples. South Korea have probably a stronger cultural influence compared to Russia but in general Russia is a bigger influencer.


The distinction is irrelevant in my point.  The influence in any field isn't going to grow by going it alone.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Mider T said:


> The distinction is irrelevant in my point.  The influence in any field isn't going to grow by going it alone.


It is when it come to cultural influence. I proved to you that the culture influence can be pushed by a country like South Korea but it doesn’t mean it apply for the global influence of a country in general. The global influence includes others elements like hard power and once again, I never supported a Frexit.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> I never supported a Frexit.



In that case, how is France more "finished" under Macron than it would have been under Le Pen?


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## Mider T (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> It is when it come to cultural influence. I proved to you that the culture influence can be pushed by a country like South Korea but it doesn’t mean it apply for the global influence of a country in general. The global influence includes others elements like hard power and once again, I never supported a Frexit.


No it's not.  South Korea isn't even in a similar situation.  It would be if it decided to leave the US sphere of influence for reunification with the North, then of course its cultural influence would decrease.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> In that case, how is France more "finished" under Macron than it would have been under Le Pen?


If you don’t mind, I’ll reply to you PM. My reply could be once against be deleted. If people want to know, they can PM me as well.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Mider T said:


> No it's not.  South Korea isn't even in a similar situation.  It would be if it decided to leave the US sphere of influence for reunification with the North, then of course its cultural influence would decrease.


South Korea have no global influence by being under US sphere of influence. It actually reduces their chance to have one but this is their choice. With all the respect I have for the country, their leader is less known than Erdogan. However they managed to develop  their pop culture around the world and it something they did on their own.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> South Korea have no global influence by being under US sphere of influence. It actually reduces their chance to have one but this is their choice. With all the respect I have for the country, their leader is less known than Erdogan. However they managed to develop  their pop culture around the world and it something they did on their own.


Erdogan is only well known for being an imperialistic pseudo-dictator who wants to commit genocide against the Kurds.


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## Mider T (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> South Korea have no global influence by being under US sphere of influence. It actually reduces their chance to have one but this is their choice. With all the respect I have for the country, their leader is less known than Erdogan. However they managed to develop  their pop culture around the world and it something they did on their own.


?? You think South Korea would have had such an explosion of K-Pop and K-dramas worldwide on their own?  Lol no.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Erdogan is only well known for being an imperialistic pseudo-dictator who wants to commit genocide against the Kurds.


You underestimate the popularity this man in the Muslim world. They have also a growing soft power in the zone.
Remember that what the US or the west thinking =/= the rest of the world thinking


Mider T said:


> ?? You think South Korea would have had such an explosion of K-Pop and K-dramas worldwide on their own?  Lol no.


Supported by the government and local companies, yes. They don’t need to be under American sphere of influence of the EU for that. It would be different for other topics like economy but not pop culture. France was a global bigger cultural influencer in the 60’s/70’s and it’s not more EU or being even more in US sphere of influence that prevented it decline. The problem and the solutions are in France only. It’s just a matter of political will. 
For example, with political will, there is the news channel called France24 that emerged and probably help some of the people here to follow the second round debate in English/Spanish or Arabic. That’s a concrete development of influence pushed by the state to be able to give it vision to the world.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Louis XVI, Louis XVI we beheaded him, Macron, Macron we are going to do it again", chant far-left activists in Montpellier.

edit: it’s not clear but I think they rather say “we can do it again “


Most of them probably voted for him the same day….


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> It was the case decades ago. It’s finished. What cultural influences have France in Europe nowadays?


I bought some french cheese raclette last week. the fact that its still available is something


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## Saishin (Apr 25, 2022)

Anyway many votes went to the extreme left and right, this is a signal that people are fed up of traditional parties and show a discontent in particular coming from the working class hit badly by the economic / social crisis of the last years and globalization/immigration and to which the traditional parties were unable to solve but this is a characteristic common in whole of Europe.


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 25, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> On a personal note, we also recall that the King of Sweden is a Frenchman.
> 
> In fact, the only Frenchman who is still a monarch. The only Bonapartist who survived.



The royals from Spain are Bourbons. The Sun King’s house.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> I bought some french cheese raclette last week. the fact that its still available is something


Terrific….


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## stream (Apr 25, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> I bought some french cheese raclette last week. the fact that its still available is something


Had to check, but raclette is a Swiss dish, not French. Foie gras is French though!


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

stream said:


> Had to check, but raclette is a Swiss dish, not French. Foie gras is French though!


Correct. We produce cheese for raclette but the origin of this dish is from Switzerland, like fondue.


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 25, 2022)

stream said:


> Had to check, but raclette is a Swiss dish, not French. Foie gras is French though!


It is a Swiss dish but you can get French cheese or cheese from Switzerland. Typically the French ones smell more


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 25, 2022)

I was also going to keep the convo pg for jff


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Saishin said:


> Anyway many votes went to the extreme left and right, this is a signal that people are fed up of traditional parties and show a discontent in particular coming from the working class hit badly by the economic / social crisis of the last years and globalization/immigration and to which the traditional parties were unable to solve but this is a characteristic common in whole of Europe.


Respect for trying to understand that there is a problem in this country.

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Is it difficult to get the Quebec Canadian nationality?


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## dergeist (Apr 25, 2022)

NeoTerraKnight said:


> Next time, don't run a candidate that is heavily tied to Putin.



Do you live in a clown world 

OT: Protests erupting in Paris, who knows we msy see a revolution (it has been a while)

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Is it difficult to get the Quebec Canadian nationality?


Can be.


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## blk (Apr 25, 2022)

Congrats Macron, France & Europe are safe for now

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

blk said:


> Congrats Macron, *France* & Europe are *safe* for now


Oh really….


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## blk (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Oh really….



100%


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## blk (Apr 25, 2022)

Now with the two major European countries being led by pro Eu people (Macron & Scholz) we might see some interesting developments for Eu integration in the coming years. 

Slovenia as well had good results..

Things seem to be moving in the right direction.



And hopefully we in Italy don't fuck it up in 2023 elections (but i'm not optimistic on that)....

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

blk said:


> 100%


It’s funny how the foreigners believe they are the most able to determine if the country is safe or not.




blk said:


> Now with the two major European countries being led by pro Eu people (Macron & Scholz) we might see some interesting developments for Eu integration in the coming years.
> 
> Slovenia as well had good results..
> 
> ...


oh that…if for you the safety of France mean the EU project, we don’t talk about the same thing…
In fact, what infuriate me with most of you guys is that our lives basically doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter as long as the EU project is on tract (it would remain on track whatever the result). The rest doesn’t matter.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 25, 2022)

So does anyone know how Russia is reporting on this election?


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> So does anyone know how Russia is reporting on this election?


Putin congrats Macron for his victory


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## blk (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> It’s funny how the foreigners believe they are the most able to determine if the country is safe or not.



Majority of french people just elected Macron, seems like they agree with the 'foreigners' 


Also you don't even live in France right now iirc? 



Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> oh that…if for you the safety of France mean the EU project, we don’t talk about the same thing…
> In fact, what infuriate me with most of you guys is that our lives basically doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter as long as the EU project is on tract (it would remain on track whatever the result). The rest doesn’t matter.



What is good for Europe is good for European countries and viceversa (i say this as an italian so i have stakes in the game). 

Closing yourself up is useless and counter productive.

Reactions: Like 1 | Sad! 1


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## Saishin (Apr 25, 2022)

blk said:


> Now with the two major European countries being led by pro Eu people (Macron & Scholz) we might see some interesting developments for Eu integration in the coming years.
> 
> Slovenia as well had good results..
> 
> ...


Italy experienced a populist government during the Conte I but according to the poll surveys Italians are not fed up yet to have another one.

I'm pessimistic, next year we'll have a far-right/sovranist government

Reactions: Like 1 | Sad! 1


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## Saishin (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Respect for trying to understand that there is a problem in this country.


As I said these social problems are common in all of Europe, it is no doubt that Europeans became more and more frustrated by a series of issues during the years and many moved to populism.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

blk said:


> Majority of french people just elected Macron, seems like they agree with the 'foreigners'
> 
> 
> Also you don't even live in France right now iirc?


Macron re-elected mean the country is safe to you ? At what moment you believe your view from abroad equal the experience of a local? I don’t have the arrogance to tell you what is good for Italy. As far as I know, you don’t live in the country and you are not citizens. Me living abroad doesn’t I know nothing about the place. I was there less than 9 months ago and live there long enough to have an opinion about it change.





blk said:


> What is good for Europe is good for European countries and viceversa (i say this as an italian so i have stakes in the game).
> 
> Closing yourself up is useless and counter productive.


Oh fuck. I’m sick to repeat myself. I’m not for a Frexit or this kind of things. You guys recycle your arguments against the Brexit like it was what I wanted. Thé EU is really the last of my worries. I believe it need to be changed but it’s definitely not the EU that I have in priority but rather internal issue in France.


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## Saishin (Apr 25, 2022)

@Le Mâle-Pensant


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## Geralt-Singh (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Big M. qui nique tout le monde 
Préparez la 5ème dose les golems

Reactions: Funny 1


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## blk (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Macron re-elected mean the country is safe to you ? At what moment you believe your view from abroad equal the experience of a local? I don’t have the arrogance to tell you what is good for Italy. As far as I know, you don’t live in the country and you are not citizens. Me living abroad doesn’t I know nothing about the place. I was there less than 9 months ago and live there long enough to have an opinion about it change.



It is indeed safe from a far right politician with terrible economic policies.

As far as immigration & crime goes i have no clue but if i have to judge from other far right politicians (like Salvini in Italy) they generally don't solve anything. It's all talk and incompetence.

Also imo these problems are often over exaggerated by media.


But my point was: french people reelected Macron so, if we want to use the personal experience metric, the collective personal experience of the french concluded that he's better for the country than LePen.

Whether this will be actually true or not, we'll see.

At least from an economics perspective i believe it is (from the objectively better, or less-bad if you prefer, policies of Macron).


You seem to ignore this and are hyper focused on immigration for some reason.



Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Oh fuck. I’m sick to repeat myself. I’m not for a Frexit or this kind of things. You guys recycle your arguments against the Brexit like it was what I wanted. Thé EU is really the last of my worries. I believe it need to be changed but it’s definitely not the EU that I have in priority but rather internal issue in France.



As Macron said to LePen, several of her policies can't be applied under EU rules.

So it's either false that she's against Frexit or she wouldn't have done them (i.e lying to electors).

I've told you this already and you didn't reply to it.
Like LePen was also unable to counter this point from Macron on their debate.

Changing the Eu to allow her specific policies is not possible so that's not an actual counter point.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Saishin said:


> @Le Mâle-Pensant


It was a rematch from 2017. If he didn’t during his last term, why he would do that now ?


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Geralt-Singh said:


> Le Big M. qui nique tout le monde
> Préparez la 5ème dose les golems


Attends, j’ai manqué un épisode. C’était quand la 4eme ?


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## Pliskin (Apr 25, 2022)

@Le Mâle-Pensant do you think any other candidate could have won the run-off? Seems to me the opposition bungled this hard by not unifying.


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## GRIMMM (Apr 25, 2022)

Called it.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

blk said:


> It is indeed safe from a far right politician with terrible economic policies.
> 
> As far as immigration & crime goes i have no clue but if i have to judge from other far right politicians (like Salvini in Italy) they generally don't solve anything. It's all talk and incompetence.
> 
> ...


I try to be honest when I share my opinion on this forum. I don’t believe Lepen would solve anything economically but when it come to security and immigration, I rather change than staying on the same track. I have priorities, I admit but it’s because unlike you, I’m much more concerned by the safety issue, even if I live abroad, my home country is still France.

We’ll stay on the same track and I strongly believe the situation will get worse. It’s just that slowly it become our new normal. A knife attack in a church in Nice no more shock that much. 


blk said:


> As Macron said to LePen, several of her policies can't be applied under EU rules.
> 
> So it's either false that she's against Frexit or she wouldn't have done them (i.e lying to electors).
> 
> ...


I replied I think and I said they just not obey the EU rules like some countries already do on others issues and will demand the negotiate change within the EU.
Yes, you can change the treaty, it’s just a matter of political will like we can not respect the rules when it’s necessary (we saw it during the covid 19 crisis and the deficit rules).
The basics of a democracy should be the power of the people, for the people by the people and if these people want to change the rules, they should be free to do it and not be locked by treaties.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Pliskin said:


> @Le Mâle-Pensant do you think any other candidate could have won the run-off? Seems to me the opposition bungled this hard by not unifying.


I personally believe no other candidates can win the elections because during the second round, the propaganda machine is so strong that it’s like living in a one party state. These two weeks were crazy. It would be the same with the far left in the second round. That’s a serious problem in our democratic system.

edit: however a debate Macron Melenchon would attract my attention…

Reactions: Informative 1


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## GRIMMM (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Pen takes another L. The far-right and xenophobes are in shambles.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

I don’t want to hear any protest, especially from the far left that contributed to put  Macron in the office again. They already started the night of his election by almost threatening him to a death similar to Louis XVI. The gilets jaunes must understand that nothing will change for them so they must make the choice to accept the pressure put on them or leave the country because they won’t be heard.


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## Pliskin (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> I don’t want to hear any protest, especially from the far left that contributed to put  Macron in the office again. They already started the night of his election by almost threatening him to a death similar to Louis XVI. The gilets jaunes must understand that nothing will change for them so they must make the choice to accept the pressure put on them or leave the country because they won’t be heard.


That's pretty grim. Macron has at most one term left in him (both him and Le Pen were for a three-term change iirc) so if he wants to build a legacy he needs to gather a political heir and a lasting coalition and convince people who currently do not like him, I don't think losing an election means you will not get a voice whatsoever from now until eternity.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Pliskin said:


> That's pretty grim. Macron has at most one term left in him (both him and Le Pen were for a three-term change iirc) so if he wants to build a legacy he needs to gather a political heir and a lasting coalition and convince people who currently do not like him, I don't think losing an election means you will not get a voice whatsoever from now until eternity.


The president elected usually have a majority in the parliament. I don’t believe it will be different this time, even if Melenchon try to unite the left behind him, I don’t think it will work for them. 
The demographic change and in 5 years, it will be the far left that will be in the second round. It’s finished so better prepare ourselves


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## Pliskin (Apr 25, 2022)

Just looked up how often incumbents lose in France: holy shit it completely reverses from America. Most Presidents do not get re-elected.


Of course, I have no real idea of the French political landscape beyond those stats, but it seems to be the sitting President has an office malus and the opposition really screwed up.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

I’m not against a change in the retirement age but the method before and after the election make me laugh.


Article 49.3: Article 49 Subsection 3 deals with an administration engagement de responsabilité (commitment of responsibility), which allows the executive branch to force passage of a legislative text unless the opposition introduces a vote de censure (motion of no confidence), which has little chance of passing, since it also entails the dissolution of the legislature pending new elections.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Pliskin said:


> Just looked up how often incumbents lose in France: holy shit it completely reverses from America. Most Presidents do not get re-elected.
> 
> 
> Of course, I have no real idea of the French political landscape beyond those stats, but it seems to be *the sitting President has an office malus and the opposition really screwed up.*


The Ukraine war help Macron a lot. He could give the excuse to be busy with the war to not enter in campaign and not face the criticisms from the different candidates. A war also strengthen the president in charge whoever he/she is.
For some reason he found the time to be in campaign when he reached the second round….


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 25, 2022)

One thing that I find remarkable is that the French disillusionment about things like wealth inequality and the decline of social security happen at the same time as the French electorate exiling the social democrats from the political arena. And if you leave the political arena solely in the hands of the center right and far right then.....yeah, social factors will suffer. So maybe....not exile the social democrats?


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

I’ll stay longer on this forum just to laugh and comment about the future government.

Macron will probably nominate a woman as prime minister. 
I wonder if we’ll see Robert Ménard or Zineb El Rhazoui in the government.

Reactions: Like 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> The Ukraine war help Macron a lot. He could give the excuse to be busy with the war to not enter in campaign and not face the criticisms from the different candidates. A war also strengthen the president in charge whoever he/she is.
> For some reason he found the time to be in campaign when he reached the second round….



The war could also give the impression that a vote for Le Pen is a vote for Putin.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> One thing that I find remarkable is that the French disillusionment about things like wealth inequality and the decline of social security happen at the same time as the French electorate exiling the social democrats from the political arena. And if youi leave the political arena solely in the hands of the center right and far right then.....yeah, social factors will suffer. So maybe....not exile the social democrats?


I think what you call the social democrats are the Parti Socialiste. They were in charge with Hollande before Macron and strongly disappointed the french. Now those who worry about these issues vite for Melenchon.


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## Jim (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Macron will probably nominate a woman as prime minister.


Is this good or bad?


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> The war could also give the impression that a vote for Le Pen is a vote for Putin.


Possible even if I believe the attacks on her are a little bit hypocritical from the rest of the french political sphere.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Jim said:


> Is this good or bad?


I don’t care if the prime minister or the president is a woman. I do have a problem if she is chosen for that.


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> I try to be honest when I share my opinion on this forum. I don’t believe Lepen would solve anything economically but when it come to security and immigration, I rather change than staying on the same track. I have priorities, I admit but it’s because unlike you, I’m much more concerned by the safety issue, even if I live abroad, my home country is still France.
> 
> We’ll stay on the same track and I strongly believe the situation will get worse. It’s just that slowly it become our new normal. *A knife attack in a church in Nice no more shock that much.*
> 
> ...


Careful,it was done by a native white from lepen party, immigrants have nothing to do with this story..


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> I’ll stay longer on this forum just to laugh and comment about the future government.
> 
> Macron will probably nominate a woman as prime minister.
> I wonder if we’ll see Robert Ménard or Zineb El Rhazoui in the government.


Nominate Le Pen as pm. Keep your friend close, keep your enemies closer

Reactions: Funny 1


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## stream (Apr 25, 2022)

Yeah, well... in his thank you speech, Macron said he knew he was elected not only by people who liked him, but also by people who didn't like him but liked Le Pen even less. Would be really funny if he chose her as pm — Though admittedly she's a woman, so that's apparently the most important qualification down

Reactions: Like 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> Nominate Le Pen as pm. Keep your friend close, keep your enemies closer


I think I change my mind and leave earlier. Commenting this future government doesn’t really matter after all. 
And about what you said, his main enemy might be Melenchon now.


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## Kingslayer (Apr 25, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> I don’t want to hear any protest, especially from the far left that contributed to put  Macron in the office again. They already started the night of his election by almost threatening him to a death similar to Louis XVI. The gilets jaunes must understand that nothing will change for them so they must make the choice to accept the pressure put on them or leave the country because they won’t be heard.


If you think le pen would be elected its crazy. She was going to lose eitherway because of her close ties to putin.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 25, 2022)

Kingslayer said:


> If you think le pen would be elected its crazy. She was going to lose eitherway because of her close ties to putin.


I don’t know if you really read my comment but if you give a second chance to him, then don’t complain with protests. The left know what they voted for. And for those like the gilets jaunes, they must make the choice to accept what fall on them or leave the country. The result is clear. In my opinion, it’s better to let those enjoy the result of their vote by not contributing financially to this system.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mylesime (Apr 26, 2022)

Macron's political strategy has simply been brillant. It was checkmate since 2016, everything happened like he predicted and directed it. In terms of electoral strategy?
A masterclass. The way things are set up, the center can't lose.
This is pure genius.

Only a "Macron nemesis" can hope to take him down, or rather take down his successor.
A socialist, conservatist,  populist but somehow pragmatic that can unite the popular block and pleads for France sovereignity.  I don't even know if that exists nowadays. Basically a Neo De Gaulle who created those institutions and the 5th Republic. That's what is needed to overthrow the current center.......


The far left or the far right can't win this.
I just hope that he gets shit done, for the greater good of the country. With fair and pragmatic policies that actually improves french people lives.

Le pen and the far right can't win, and demography and immigration aren't on their side. Hard to unite the people when you're rejecting everything that symbolizes or identifies millions of those citizens because of their origins or religions.....
If anything the far left has more hope to win power in the future, and even then at that point the nationalists would oppose it and back up the center.....
Politically? Brillant.
It is cynical tough, and if that power is not wisely used, can lead to protest and violence in the streets.....





Mylesime said:


> I have little faith in humanity, specially looking at the numerous examples in history, and i'm well aware of the fact that the risk zero doesn't exist.
> 
> There is a huge difference bewteen our two electoral systems tough: *the direct universal suffrage.*
> Be it 2016, or 2020 the democrat candidate had more total votes than than the republican, Trump,  yet it was tight.
> ...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 26, 2022)

Mylesime said:


> Macron's political strategy has simply been brillant. It was checkmate since 2016, everything happened like he predicted and directed it. In terms of electoral strategy?
> A masterclass. The way things are set up, the center can't lose.
> This is pure genius.
> 
> ...


exactly he has successfully destroyed the traditional left and right leaving room only for extremes which means that voters will always choose him instead of what is opposed to their political spectrum.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## stream (Apr 26, 2022)

I agree that Macron's strategy is perfect for the way elections are held in France. Note however that he cannot be president a third time in a row, and it's very unclear that there is anybody in his party who can take his place.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Alwaysmind (Apr 27, 2022)

That’s what they get for firing David Pujadas 10 years ago. @Le Mâle-Pensant


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 27, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> That’s what they get for firing David Pujadas 10 years ago. @Le Mâle-Pensant


He is on LCI now.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (May 1, 2022)



Reactions: Old 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 3, 2022)

dr_shadow said:


> The war could also give the impression that a vote for Le Pen is a vote for Putin.


Fascists of a feather...something something.


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## T-Bag (May 6, 2022)

Alwaysmind said:


> That’s what they get for firing David Pujadas 10 years ago. @Le Mâle-Pensant


"technical software error"

right 

ah...never fails.


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## Alwaysmind (May 6, 2022)

T-Bag said:


> "technical software error"
> 
> right
> 
> ah...never fails.


France 2 used to be good but then they decided to follow CNN’s meme business model


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (May 6, 2022)

I think we can keep this thread alive since Melenchon make it like the legislative is a 3rd round to determine who will be the prime minister.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (May 8, 2022)




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## Le Mâle-Pensant (May 9, 2022)

FLASH - Emmanuel #Macron says he is in favor of "a revision of the treaties" to reform the European Union. (attribution) #CoFoE


Ah ? So now the revision of treaties is possible…

Reactions: Funny 1


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## stream (May 9, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> FLASH - Emmanuel #Macron says he is in favor of "a revision of the treaties" to reform the European Union. (attribution) #CoFoE
> 
> 
> Ah ? So now the revision of treaties is possible…


I wouldn't hold your breath though. He's so pro-European that it is unlikely to be significant

Reactions: Like 1


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (May 9, 2022)

stream said:


> I wouldn't hold your breath though. He's so pro-European that it is unlikely to be significant


I don’t expect anything but it’s just that we often heard the argument that it’s impossible to change the treaties bla bla bla. Yes, it’s always possible to change the treaties, it’s just a matter of political will. And regarding Macron in favour of changing the treaties, it might for this proposition.


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## blk (May 9, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> FLASH - Emmanuel #Macron says he is in favor of "a revision of the treaties" to reform the European Union. (attribution) #CoFoE
> 
> 
> Ah ? So now the revision of treaties is possible…



Macron probably wants to change treaties to improve the union not to dismantle it 


Anyway that's what he says, whether it will happen or not has to be seen (since unanimity is required).


If he's implying to change the decision making process from unanimity to majority (like the other tweet you linked from von der Leyen), that would be a very welcome change to speed up decisions.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (May 9, 2022)

blk said:


> Macron probably wants to change treaties to improve the union not to dismantle it
> 
> 
> Anyway that's what he says, whether it will happen or not has to be seen (since unanimity is required).
> ...


The reasons doesn’t matter. It’s just that the impossibility to change the treaties was an argument against those who want to change Europe against his vision of Europe and I think still used against the left alliance. It’s not about dismantle like you pretend, it’s about imposing a single model for Europe and pretend the others are just impossible by using the argument of the treaties. Just say the reasons you disagree with the proposed changes rather than claiming it’s impossible. It sounds hypocritical now.
Anyways some countries expressed their reserve


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## blk (May 10, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> The reasons doesn’t matter. It’s just that the impossibility to change the treaties was an argument against those who want to change Europe against his vision of Europe and I think still used against the left alliance. It’s not about dismantle like you pretend, it’s about imposing a single model for Europe and pretend the others are just impossible by using the argument of the treaties. Just say the reasons you disagree with the proposed changes rather than claiming it’s impossible. It sounds hypocritical now.
> Anyways some countries expressed their reserve



The reason matter because to change things you have to come to agreements with others. 

So the subject of proposals is vital to know whether it is realistic or not that others will agree on said proposal. 

And to me it's obvious that the implied changes that LePen wanted weren't something that most EU countries would like. 



As you yourself show with this tweet, even the proposal to abolish unanimity (which should logically be in everyone's interests) isn't easy to sell to the others. 


So as i said, LePen (or Macron too btw) saying that they will change the treaties =! the treaties will actually be changed. 



Although obviously Macron has far 
better chances to achieve that than LePen since his proposals are beneficial to the union and he's far more respected by the other countries.


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## Saishin (Jun 19, 2022)

Macron's bloc loses majority in parliament – DW – 06/19/2022
					

French President Emmanuel Macron's centrist alliance has lost its parliamentary majority, on the back of record results for the far left in second place and the far right in third.




					www.dw.com


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## JFF (Jun 19, 2022)

Saishin said:


> Macron's bloc loses majority in parliament – DW – 06/19/2022
> 
> 
> French President Emmanuel Macron's centrist alliance has lost its parliamentary majority, on the back of record results for the far left in second place and the far right in third.
> ...


Expected; a new left alliance gained (_NUPES_). Considering the ongoing inflation the EU and prices; its a tough spot for leaders currently.

But I do not think its big issue (despite what some papers write). Marcons party just need one 3 other parties/alliances. This will work out some way. it will not be easy, but still.


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## CrownedEagle (Jun 19, 2022)

40 % of participation, that said a lot about the credibility of these elections.....


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## Mider T (Jun 19, 2022)

CrownedEagle said:


> 40 % of participation, that said a lot about the credibility of these elections.....


French love to protest but when it comes to showing up to actually vote...

Reactions: Like 1


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## dergeist (Jun 19, 2022)

France’s Macron loses parliamentary majority as left and right surge​
France’s far right and a coalition of leftwing parties surged while President Emmanuel Macron lost his coveted majority in the parliamentary elections that could shape the country’s politics for years to come.

Early projections by several polling firms predicted Mr Macron’s Le Republique en Marche would win only about 230 seats, besting all other parties and coalitions but a far cry from the 289 needed for an absolute majority and far less than the 350 seats his centrist political brand won and drew into its camp in 2017.

The New Ecologic and Social People’s Union, a hastily cobbled together coalition of leftist, far-left and green political parties cobbled together by Jean-Luc Melenchon, came in second place with a projected 149 seats. The fiery Melenchon was triumphant, lashing out at Mr Macron.

“It is a totally unexpected situation, absolutely unheard of, the rout of the presidential party is total,” he said after the results began coming in. “They wanted to avoid defeat at the cost of dishonour. Tonight they have both defeat and dishonour.”

But it was the far-right Marine Le Pen’s National Rally party that surged the most in the election, winning around 85 seats or 15 per cent of the 577-seat national assembly, a dramatic turn of fortunes from 2017, when she managed to win only eight seats. The performance was the best for the French far right movement founded by Le Pen’s father Jean-Marie since it was founded four decades.

“The number for the National Rally is something that no one saw coming,” Lea Chamboncel, a French political journalist and podcaster, said in an interview. “It’s a bad surprise,a very bad surprise.”

The traditional centre-right came in fourth place winning a projected 76 seats, down from 130 in 2017.  Final numbers were still being tallied by the minister of interior.

Sunday’s parliamentary election may have little direct or immediate impact beyond France. Mr Macron defeated Ms Le Pen to win a second five-year term in April. Matters of foreign policy, national security and European affairs remain deeply enshrined within the purview of the presidency, with parliament playing far less of a role than it does in other western democracies.

But to woo independent lawmakers in other camps and cobble together a majority on domestic matters, Mr Macron may have to give way on hot-button issues that do have an impact abroad, such as military support for Ukraine, trade negotiations with the United Kingdom or expansion of the European Union.

Though French voters of the left and right banded together to vote for Mr Macron to defeat Ms Le Pen in April, the elections Sunday carried some unsettling messages for the president and his centrist allies.

“It’s far from what we hoped for,” the minister of public accounts Gabriel Attal said in an interview with BFMTV.

Among those who lost their seats was Amelie de Montchalin, Mr Macron’s minister of ecological transition, who was defeated by the leftist Jerome Guedj in Essonne, a constituency 30 miles south of Paris. Christophe Castaner, a former interior minister under Mr Macron, was also beaten by a leftist candidate.

“Voters are unhappy with Macron, that’s for sure,” said Ms Chamboncel, author of a book calling for more women in politics. “It was a midterm election for him and he lost.”

Mr Melenchon managed revive the fortunes of the long-moribund French left to draw a new generation of young voters and candidates into the arena—many of them women and from marginalised immigrant backgrounds. But despite glee over Mr Macron’s performance, the left also faced some sobering moments. Fabian Rousel, a prominent leftist, barely squeaked out a victory against a far right candidate in a northern constituency along the Belgian border.

Ms Le Pen reinvented her father’s political movement to make it more palatable to the centre right voters. But it remains staunchly anti-immigrant and anti-European Union. It is also financially beholden to banks linked to the Kremlin.

The size of Ms Le Pen’s parliamentary bloc crosses a number of legislative hurdles that will allow her to introduce, for example, censure measures and bring up matters before the constitutional court.

Ms Le Pen, beaming with joy among a crowd of supporters after winning her seat in the second round, promised changes.

“The new faces you are about to discover are the vanguard of this political elite who will take responsibility for the country when the Macron adventure comes to an end,” she said to cheers and applause. “We are going to continue the work of bringing the French people together into a great popular movement.”











						France’s Macron loses parliamentary majority as left and right surge
					

‘It was a midterm election for him and he lost,’ one analyst says




					www.independent.co.uk


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## Mider T (Jun 19, 2022)

Already posted in the French election thread.


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## dergeist (Jun 19, 2022)

Mider T said:


> Already posted in the French election thread.



This isn't a presidential election, so..


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## dr_shadow (Jun 19, 2022)

dergeist said:


> This isn't a presidential election, so..



We can just change the title of that thread.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jun 19, 2022)

CrownedEagle said:


> 40 % of participation, that said a lot about the credibility of these elections.....


The elections in France in general lost all credibility for me during the two weeks between the first and the second round of the 2022 president election. It’s two weeks where we are no more a proper democracy.


Mider T said:


> French love to protest but when it comes to showing up to actually vote...


Not going to vote is a form of protest. It contributes to remove any credibility to the election and those elected.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jun 20, 2022)

Ahahahahahah

"If I am Prime Minister on Monday, Julien Assange will be naturalized French and decorated," announced Jean-Luc Mélenchon during a press briefing in Paris.

and Snowden reaction.


“Good luck. The world needs it.”

Reactions: Like 2


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## RavenSupreme (Jun 20, 2022)

Thankfully he isn’t prime minister.


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## Mider T (Jun 20, 2022)

Speaking of Snowden, wonder how the war and sanctions are treating him?


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## blk (Jun 20, 2022)

dergeist said:


> France’s Macron loses parliamentary majority as left and right surge​
> France’s far right and a coalition of leftwing parties surged while President Emmanuel Macron lost his coveted majority in the parliamentary elections that could shape the country’s politics for years to come.
> 
> Early projections by several polling firms predicted Mr Macron’s Le Republique en Marche would win only about 230 seats, besting all other parties and coalitions but a far cry from the 289 needed for an absolute majority and far less than the 350 seats his centrist political brand won and drew into its camp in 2017.
> ...



Sounds like bad news. 

French people getting conned by populists.


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## Saishin (Jun 20, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> FLASH - Emmanuel #Macron says he is in favor of "a revision of the treaties" to reform the European Union. (attribution) #CoFoE
> 
> 
> Ah ? So now the revision of treaties is possible…


It's being years that I hear from politicians that EU needs a reform but till now nothing have been done. 

@dergeist surely is very happy of the results


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## dergeist (Jun 20, 2022)

blk said:


> Sounds like bad news.
> 
> French people getting conned by populists.



Nah, thwy voted for what they want. And they don't want Macron anymore. Looks like the inflation is hitring home, what is the next domino to fall.



Saishin said:


> It's being years that I hear from politicians that EU needs a reform but till now nothing have been done.
> 
> @dergeist surely is very happy of the results



The EU is fuming they thought they could use Macron to push through ever greater union, Little Napoleon got checked by the French


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## blk (Jun 20, 2022)

dergeist said:


> Nah, thwy voted for what they want. And they don't want Macron anymore. Looks like the inflation is hitring home, what is the next domino to fall.



Far right or far left parties will always be worse for the economy, so yeah French ppl made a mistake  

Inflation can't be solved anyway since it comes from disrupted supply.



I mean it's nothing new, it often happens that people (in general not just France) vote against their actual interests because populists convince them via bullshit claims.


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## dergeist (Jun 20, 2022)

blk said:


> Far right or far left parties will always be worse for the economy, so yeah French ppl made a mistake
> 
> Inflation can't be solved anyway since it comes from disrupted supply.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure why they call them far right or left, that's just a little propaganda added in there.

Nah, inflation was exacerbated because we had to show Russia. People's wallets be like yeah we sure showed them.

On the last point, people vote what they want (that is democracy) and in this case they don't want Little Napoleon and his policies

Which EU country holds the next election


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jun 20, 2022)

dergeist said:


> The EU is fuming they thought they could use Macron to push through ever greater union, *Little Napoleon* got checked by the French


Macron is closer to Petain than Napoleon.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## dergeist (Jun 20, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> Macron is closer to Petain than Napoleon.



I see  

Anyway, what do you think of the result


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## blk (Jun 20, 2022)

dergeist said:


> I'm not sure why they call them far right or left, that's just a little propaganda added in there.
> 
> Nah, inflation was exacerbated because we had to show Russia. People's wallets be like yeah we sure showed them.
> 
> ...



Well LePen is clearly a conservative while Melenchon is not.

But economically they are both non-liberal.


Even w/out sanctions the war would have still caused inflation, even if less.
Although the sacrifice is worth & a moral obligation (least we could do since we decided to not intervene directly).



We have elections in Italy next year (may iirc), will be an interesting shit show.

Not sure if there are other elections within the EU before that.


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## dergeist (Jun 20, 2022)

blk said:


> Well LePen is clearly a conservative while Melenchon is not.
> 
> But economically they are both non-liberal.
> 
> ...



She's got commie leanings, just nation first type, while Melenchon is your socialist.

I don't agree, the inflation rate would be a lot lower. When the price of the fuel source is increased manyfold and a major expense for the people goes up say 3x or more, they'refeeling the effect. On the point of "sacrifice" I'm not sure everyone sees it that way, which is why Macroni didn't fet his majoirty.




blk said:


> We have elections in Italy next year (may iirc), will be an interesting shit show.
> 
> Not sure if there are other elections within the EU before that.



Less than a year away, keep me updated.


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## Saishin (Jun 20, 2022)

The vote to extreme or populist parties is a sign of the growing frustration of the regular citizen, the socio-economic problems that in the last years have hit the people and the inability of the traditional parties to solve such issues pushed many people to support anti-establishment. Symptoms of a growing social illness.


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## blk (Jun 20, 2022)

dergeist said:


> She's got commie leanings, just nation first type, while Melenchon is your socialist.
> 
> I don't agree, the inflation rate would be a lot lower. When the price of the fuel source is increased manyfold and a major expense for the people goes up say 3x or more, they'refeeling the effect. On the point of "sacrifice" I'm not sure everyone sees it that way, which is why Macroni didn't fet his majoirty.
> 
> ...



Every far right party has "commie leanings", or more accurately anti-liberal economic tendecies.

It's true in France, it's true in Italy, in UK and it was true even in the US of all places (Trump with his protectionism, trade wars, etc).


Far left is also anti-liberal but in different ways (and with different philosophical justification).


What differentiates them the most are their foundational beliefs (from which they justify their, sometimes even quite similar, economic policies) and on social issues.



If people don't see it that way then i guess it's better to leave it to the technicians & supranational institutions (EU, NATO, etc).

Might sound undemocratic but some things can't be compromised and left to the momentary feeling of people


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## dr_shadow (Jun 20, 2022)

blk said:


> Might sound undemocratic but some things can't be compromised and left to the momentary feeling of people



Tell that to football fans who oppose Video Assisted Refereeing (VAR).

Reactions: Funny 2


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 20, 2022)

blk said:


> If people don't see it that way then i guess it's better to leave it to the technicians & supranational institutions (EU, NATO, etc).
> 
> Might sound undemocratic but some things can't be compromised and left to the momentary feeling of people


This is actually a great summary of this type of mentality.

I'll use it the next time someone asks me why i'd rather move out of Europe rather than stay and live in the Estados Unidos de Europa if people don't fight it with everything they have.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## dergeist (Jun 20, 2022)

blk said:


> Every far right party has "commie leanings", or more accurately anti-liberal economic tendecies.
> 
> It's true in France, it's true in Italy, in UK and it was true even in the US of all places (Trump with his protectionism, trade wars, etc).
> 
> ...



You didn't need to type all of this up, lol. They're anti-free market have commie (authoritarian policies in them as well as other forms of policies). I like to highlight that they aren't capitalists or free market by any stretch (something people overlook or assume they are).




blk said:


> If people don't see it that way then i guess it's better to leave it to the technicians & supranational institutions (EU, NATO, etc).
> 
> Might sound undemocratic but some things can't be compromised and left to the momentary feeling of people



I see the anti-democrat is surfacing

Reactions: Funny 1


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## blk (Jun 20, 2022)

TYPE-Rey said:


> This is actually a great summary of this type of mentality.
> 
> I'll use it the next time someone asks me why i'd rather move out of Europe rather than stay and live in the Estados Unidos de Europa if people don't fight it with everything they have.



It's an objective fact that democracy is the best system but it's also an objective fact that not everything can be left to the vote of the people (there are tons of things in every country that are in fact not left to the people but are done by government technicians & bureaucracy independently of party politics).


Although you could argue that preserving international law & helping Ukraine is not one of these.


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## RavenSupreme (Jun 20, 2022)

TYPE-Rey said:


> This is actually a great summary of this type of mentality.
> 
> I'll use it the next time someone asks me why i'd rather move out of Europe rather than stay and live in the Estados Unidos de Europa if people don't fight it with everything they have.


Good. People who don’t support the greater good of a single union leaving makes it more easy to achieve.

this is also why I support Britain going solo for a bit, they voluntarily threw away all the extra benefits which stopped more European integration.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Jun 20, 2022)

RavenSupreme said:


> Good. People who don’t support the greater good of a single union leaving makes it more easy to achieve.



Cool, the schadenfreude i'll get when this crashes and burns cause in the end, it always does,  will be grandiose.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Jun 20, 2022)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Cool, the schadenfreude i'll get when this crashes and burns cause in the end, it always does,  will be grandiose.



Maybe when the oppressive EU is gone, the Maltese Empire can finally rise to world hegemony.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## RavenSupreme (Jun 20, 2022)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Cool, the schadenfreude i'll get when this crashes and burns cause in the end, it always does,  will be grandiose.


I don’t need to see others fail for being happy about our success.

a more united europe is what we all should strive for and if others feel Schadenfreude over the obstacles along the way that just means we need to intensify our efforts


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## JFF (Jun 20, 2022)

Le Mâle-Pensant said:


> ....


Could we got back to topic.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jun 20, 2022)

JFF said:


> Could we got back to topic.


Yes sure. I propose people to continue in PM if they have questions rather than publicly  criticism me on my personal life while they don’t know me and the details of my life. I personally said everything I have to say about these election and the previous one. I let the rest of the population enjoy the results of their vote.

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Saishin (Jun 21, 2022)

Macron turns down French PM’s resignation offer, hosts opposition for talks
					

French Prime Minister Elisabeth Borne offered her resignation to President Emmanuel Macron in the wake of the ruling party losing its majority in elections, but the head of state turned it down, the…




					www.france24.com


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jun 21, 2022)

In case of a new surge of contamination, the RN (Marine LePen’s party) will be opposed to the return of the health pass. The Nupes (the left coalition) have the same speech.

Reactions: Informative 3


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