# Princess Tsunade's Taijutsu in 588



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

I understand several others have already outlined Tsunade's ability to _transfer chakra_ to others, and of course her huge _resistance to damage_ - as she was able to throw strikes with two giant swords stuck inside of her. LB also made a thread regarding Tsunade's general abilities, and why she's so boss. 

However, I wanted to focus on a few other things - mainly, the confusion regarding her taijutsu.

*I. Tsunade's fighting style is not sloppy.​*

The first, and most important thing I wanted to mention, was Ei's ridicule of Tsunade's fighting style. Ei notes Tsunade's style as being  after she is impaled with two Susano'o blades. 

A dictionary definition of sloppy is as follows;



> *slop?py/ˈsl?pē/*
> Careless and unsystematic; excessively casual.



Ei is saying Tsunade is being careless with her attacks, and indeed, _unsystematic_. However, I don't think you should interpret this as Kishimoto insulting or degrading her fighting style; or at least, I know I didn't. Because straight after Ei had said this, he _carelessly_ let his own guard down, and was caught by a Madara clone subsequently 

Tsunade isn't as fast as Ei, and much like a few of the other Kage, she can't deal with 5 Susano'o clones as quickly and efficiently as Ei can. But that doesn't make her sloppy, Tsunade noted that this was the only way she would be able to take out the five clones with taijutsu alone 

And while she did take a lot of damage from fighting Susano'o with taijutsu, she was still able to stand on her two feet for a long period of time - and connect hits, something both Gaara and Mei Terumi were incapable of doing. They were weakened after being hit with solid blows, and immediately _rendered themselves useless_ before the power of Madara's Susano'o  - while Tsunade continued fighting, even when the odds were slim.

*II. Tsunade isn't slow​*

Which takes me onto my next point. Tsunade isn't regarded as a speed beast, she never has, and she never will. The fact that Tsunade had been impaled with two Susano'o swords is clear evidence that she isn't fast enough to evade _everything_ like Ei can. _However_, I have always stressed the fact that while Tsunade isn't a speed demon, she is far from slow. This chapter outlined this, and I'm unsure if anyone appreciated how good a feat , really was.

Baring in mind that Madara clones are; even whenever enveloped in Susano'o, still fast enough to blitz Ei _[albeit, only when he lets his guard down for a split second]_. And while Tsunade _may_ have attacked Susano'o from behind, she made an , and its not like Madara can't react to attacks coming from behind anyway. [ 1 ] Tsunade _blitzed_, its the only plausible explanation. 

*III. Tsunade vs 5 Clones​*
As a final point, I'd like to mention the fact that Tsunade was; despite taking a lot of damage, still able to to fight off up to _5 clones_ at once. It's important to remember that Tsunade was dealing with more clones than the one we saw on-panel. This page shows that Tsunade, just like every other Kage, has five susano'o clones pitted against her:



However, with two swords already impaled in her, and with each clone only having one sword, we can quickly deduce that Tsunade did battle with more than one clone. Three other clones surround Tsunade nearby, and it appears as though a few of them are re-entering the battlefield:



Although I'm merely speculating _[and you have every right to disagree]_, it appears as though Tsunade could have landed hits on other the clones as well.

__________________

In short, Tsunade's combat strength is excellent, and her speed is far above average. Blitzing a Madara clone truely is a great feat, and speed, among other factors - like her incredible resilience, are what makes Tsunade's taijutsu style so powerful.​


----------



## Melodie (May 30, 2012)

Great thread GT!

Well, I believe that the reason Raikage claimed that Tsunade's fighting style is sloppy because of the Kris swords being on Tsunade. However, as I have claimed countless of times, Tsunade's fighting style is different than other taijutsu masters like Gai and Ei. It could also be said that she purposely let the Susano'o swords impale her, so she could create an opening.​


----------



## Butterfly (May 30, 2012)

a wonderful holy grail of a thread.

inb4 the haters. .

And, like what Melodie said, I think it'd be important to emphasize the fact that her fighting style isn't something A has explicit knowledge on. It's only what he knows. He doesn't know Tsunade is a massive chakra tank (which she defied him on later when she gave his chakra to Onoki), he doesn't know the limits of her regeneration, and he doesn't know how she can just tank attacks and send them back. But, _she does_. The thing she has against him is knowledge on her taijutsu style and it's clearly shown that she's not being sloppy.


----------



## Frawstbite (May 30, 2012)

Melodie said:


> Great thread GT!
> It could also be said that she purposely let the Susano'o swords impale her, so she could create an opening.​



I said this in the other thread but she purposefully ages to create openings simply to knock off some clones?

Do you honestly think she'd be willing to do this?

*EDIT:* 

Hang on, she said she is risking her life and fighting, and it is _the only way she can do it_. So I guess she is willing to go that far if that's the only way she can take them out.


----------



## Namikaze Minato (May 30, 2012)

not sloppy huh? , E is the expert on Taijutsu , when he says Tsunade is sloppy which she is , i'll believe him over you.

and Tsunade is slow , punching a throw away clone aint a worthy speed feat ..... for a Kage !!


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 30, 2012)

this
Tsunade doesn't have a choice in the matter. Her lack of skill makes it impossible for her to fight any other way.


----------



## AbnormallyNormal (May 30, 2012)

To me, Tsunade is NOT skilled in taijutsu, but her awesome strength and durability let her get away with being "sloppy"

In otehr words she is perhaps not trained in taijutsu because it isnt really that needed for her in battle given her other abilities


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

Namikaze Minato said:


> not sloppy huh? , E is the expert on Taijutsu , when he says Tsunade is sloppy which she is , i'll believe him over you.



Tsunade is also an expert of taijutsu.

I am not going to argue, nor debate this, because its so blatantly obvious, and if you deny it or think otherwise, you are a troll.



> and Tsunade is slow , punching a throw away clone aint a worthy speed feat ..... for a Kage !!



Because obviously, a clone of _Madara Uchiha_, isn't fast in anyway, right?



Kages don't even need to be fast, this was never stated anywhere. 



TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> [1]
> Tsunade doesn't have a choice in the matter. Her lack of skill makes it impossible for her to fight any other way.



That is a completely narrow minded way to look at it. Tsunade lacks incredible speed like Ei, so she uses her resilience and strength to make up for it. On the other hand, Ei isn't as a resilient or strong as Tsunade is, so he uses speed to his advantage, he would not be able to utilise Tsunade's fighting style as well as she can.

Tsunade is not unskilled in taijutsu, hence the point of this thread.



Also, Melodie, muffinssi, I didn't want to mention Tsunade's resilience as a significant factor, because it had been mentioned in several other threads already. But yes - she is willing to let herself be hit in order to create an opening to hit targets.



AbnormallyNormal said:


> To me, Tsunade is NOT skilled in taijutsu, but her awesome strength and durability let her get away with being "sloppy"
> 
> In otehr words she is perhaps not trained in taijutsu because it isnt really that needed for her in battle given her other abilities



But strength and durability are factors within taijutsu. Read , it should make things clear regarding the different factors which effect her fighting style.​


----------



## xXHancockXx (May 30, 2012)

That?s a great thread.
I was really impressed by her tai jutsu abilities as well. It was astonishing to see how she survived the first time Madara impaled her. But to see her still being able to smash a Susanoo while having two giant swords impaling her was just indescribable.

As Jiraiya stated she is truly a gifted tai jutsu fighter. In my opinion it is great that she does not have a similar style to Gai, Lee or A. The combination of tai jutsu and medical jutsu makes her unique. 

Furthermore I don?t think that Raikage wanted to criticize her when he said that her fighting is getting sloppy. As it was already explained he does not have knowledge on her technique so can?t know what Byakugou is really capable of or rather I think he just cares for her. It was plain to seen that he was worried about her.


----------



## First Tsurugi (May 30, 2012)

I still do not understand how she wasn't bisected by those two swords that were each the size of her waist.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Jad (May 30, 2012)

xXHancockXx said:


> As Jiraiya stated she is truly a gifted tai jutsu fighter. In my opinion it is great that she does not have a similar style to Gai, Lee or A. The combination of tai jutsu and medical jutsu makes her unique.



Actually Gai created the Konoha fighting style, so it is understandable she has her own way of fighting.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (May 30, 2012)

The Raikage only said that because Tsunade didn't seem to give a damn about being run through by 2 Susanoo Blades, and then still going on the attack with them still stuck inside of her. She doesn't care what attack hits her and when. That's what the Raikage was referring to. 

Are people seriously stupid enough to think that he was referring to anything other than the fact that Tsunade was going on the offensive with two blades literally impaled inside her body? She's being sloppy and wreckless in this fight because her jutsu, for the time being anyway, makes her practically invincible.


----------



## Namikaze Minato (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Tsunade is also an expert of taijutsu.
> 
> I am not going to argue, nor debate this, because its so blatantly obvious, and if you deny it or think otherwise, you are a troll.
> 
> ...



expert of Taijutsu huh? , you must mean expert at getting hit ?

and like firstHokage says , Tsunade says in that panel thats its the only way she can fight ... by getting hit .. which is the definition of sloppy ... re-read today's chapter. , if your too lazy , go directly to first Hokage post , he posted the page link.

again , it was a throw away clone for diversion , doesnt matter if it was fast or not , you used it as an example which is wrong.


----------



## Wolfpack (May 30, 2012)

I do think Tsunade's fighting style gets sloppy, but she's about the only one who can afford to be sloppy


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

Namikaze Minato said:


> and like firstHokage says , Tsunade says in that panel thats its the only way she can fight ... by getting hit .. which is the definition of sloppy ... re-read today's chapter. , if your too lazy , go directly to first Hokage post , he posted the page link.



Been there, done that.



> That is a completely narrow minded way to look at it. Tsunade lacks incredible speed like Ei, so she uses her resilience and strength to make up for it. On the other hand, Ei isn't as a resilient or strong as Tsunade is, so he uses speed to his advantage, he would not be able to utilise Tsunade's fighting style as well as she can.



Next



> again , it was a throw away clone for diversion , doesnt matter if it was fast or not , you used it as an example which is wrong.



What the heck are you on about? 

She blitzed a clone of Madara Uchiha. Madara Uchiha clones are fast. Feat is therefore impressive.

Fact.​


----------



## Rosencrantz (May 30, 2012)

Jad said:


> Actually Gai created the Konoha fighting style, so it is understandable she has her own way of fighting.



Elaborate on this statement. I know you are not suggesting that Gai invented the Konoha taijutsu style of fighting right? Cause you are a lot funnier than I gave you credit for if you are.


----------



## bleakwinter (May 30, 2012)

Ei senselessly lost his arm trying to hit Sasuke. I don't believe he has the right to call Tsunade's fighting style "sloppy".


----------



## Namikaze Minato (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Been there, done that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol , accept your concession , for what its worth , its not a blitz when the enemy is expecting you to attack , so he can ambush you with another attack , like what Madara did to Tsunade , but if you want to consider it as a blitz , more power to you .


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> That is a completely narrow minded way to look at it. Tsunade lacks incredible speed like Ei, so she uses her resilience and strength to make up for it. On the other hand, Ei isn't as a resilient or strong as Tsunade is, so he uses speed to his advantage, he would not be able to utilise Tsunade's fighting style as well as she can.
> 
> Tsunade is not unskilled in taijutsu, hence the point of this thread.​



Tsunade's view of her own abilities is narrow minded? You're funny.


----------



## supersaiyan146 (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> She blitzed a clone of Madara Uchiha. Madara Uchiha clones are fast. Feat is therefore impressive.
> 
> Fact.​




So you are claiming that Tsunade is a speedster on par with A ?


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> Tsunade's view of her own abilities is narrow minded? You're funny.



No understanding of my points at all whatsoever.



SuperMinato146 said:


> So you are claiming that Tsunade is a speedster on par with A ?



No, because if you read the OP, you'll learn I never even hinted at such a thing.​


----------



## Ranma Saotome (May 30, 2012)

/Gamer talk on

I liken it to a thief and a swordsman, from a RPG or MMORPG standpoint( more like classes advanced into a Paladin and Assassin, but meh ). One is better at tanking blows, hits hard, and has good regen. The other is good at dodging, dealing piercing blows( crits ), and usually has a means to blitz or attack from behind. 

/Gamer talk off

Tsunade pretty much has to fight like that. Get in close, hit hard, and take whatever damage she has to in the process. She has the regen to survive it afterwards. Even healing after it's over.


----------



## jacamo (May 30, 2012)

Tsunade doesnt deserve such a dedicated fanbase


----------



## supersaiyan146 (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> No, because if you read the OP, you'll learn I never even hinted at such a thing.​



It has to do with the post that I quoted .

You claim that Madara's clones are very fast (On Par with Madara...the same guy who reacted to A) ..and that Tsunade blitzed them .

How does that not make Tsunade just as fast as A if not faster ?

If you dont think she is a speedster..why bring it up every time you get a chance ?


----------



## Jad (May 30, 2012)

Rosencrantz said:


> Elaborate on this statement. I know you are not suggesting that Gai invented the Konoha taijutsu style of fighting right? Cause you are a lot funnier than I gave you credit for if you are.



I remember reading it in the Databook somewhere, but in the Data book it reads:

"- Lee tries to learn all of *Gai's techniques*. Even while on missions, his training never ends."

I can't find the other source it said; "Gai's unique style of fighting he created" or something along the lines of that.


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> No understanding of my points at all whatsoever.​



Tsunade stated that this was the only way she could fight. It's not that she is doing it on purpose, this is her only option. Why is that so hard to understand?


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

SuperMinato146 said:


> It has to do with the post that I quoted .
> 
> You claim that Madara's clones are very fast (On Par with Madara...the same guy who reacted to A) ..and that Tsunade blitzed them .
> 
> ...



You haven't read the OP, Super Minato126.

Because I never said that the clones were as fast as the real Madara, nor did I even imply Tsunade was as fast as Ei. In fact, I said the complete opposite:



			
				Godaime Tsunade said:
			
		

> Tsunade isn't regarded as a speed beast, she never has, and she never will. The fact that Tsunade had been impaled with two Susano'o swords is clear evidence that she isn't fast enough to evade everything like Ei can. However, I have always stressed the fact that while Tsunade isn't a speed demon, she is far from slow. This chapter outlined this, and I'm unsure if anyone appreciated how good a feat pummeling a Madara clone into the ground, really was.



Clones of Madara are Uchiha are still fast, because they managed to go behind Ei, and grab him before he could react. However, they only did this by the sheer virtue that Ei let his guard down, under normal circumstances this would not happen. However, even then, a degree of high speed is still required to capture Ei even if his guard is down. Hence, Tsunade blitzing the Susano'o is still impressive.​


----------



## DoflaMihawk (May 30, 2012)

A's the one who got caught by Genjutsu.

Who is he to call someone sloppy?


----------



## Naruto Fighto (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> *I. Tsunade's fighting style is not sloppy.​*
> 
> The first, and most important thing I wanted to mention, was Ei's ridicule of Tsunade's fighting style. Ei notes Tsunade's style as being  after she is impaled with two Susano'o blades.
> 
> A dictionary definition of sloppy is as follows;





Tsunade did well in this chapter, she resisted Susano clones, she gave chakra to power up the main attack....so why start a thread with "a dictionary definition of sloppy"...lol

Why nitpick over such small details? Just make a "in your face" thread where you show Tsunade owning and that is it.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> Tsunade stated that this was the only way she could fight. It's not that she is doing it on purpose, this is her only option. Why is that so hard to understand?



And she said that, because she was facing against _Madara Uchiha_, yeno, the strongest character in the manga? Yeh, him. 

Tsunade could attempt to evade constantly, and try to employ high speed in battle against Madara, but it would ultimately fail. She could do so against lower class shinobi, like Chuunin, but not shinobi who exceed the strength of five kage put together. Hence, that was the only way she could fight and win, not the only way she could fight. There's a difference. In the same way that Ei using high speed, is the only way he could fight and win, but not the only he can fight.​


----------



## Summers (May 30, 2012)

jacamo said:


> Tsunade doesnt deserve such a dedicated fanbase



Not many of them. LB,GT,Butterfly,Tsunadefan,Melodie, and like 4 others I dont know.


----------



## Wolfpack (May 30, 2012)

OP, maybe it's because I'm not too familiar with the word, but can you tell me how Tsunade blitzed that susanoo? I thought Tsunade's methods during this fight were to get stabbed in order to create openings, and then attack?


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

Naruto Fighto said:


> Tsunade did well in this chapter, she resisted Susano clones, she gave chakra to power up the main attack....so why start a thread with "a dictionary definition of sloppy"...lol
> 
> Why nitpick over such small details? Just make a "in your face" thread where you show Tsunade owning and that is it.



Because just making an "in your face" thread, would recieve a lot more hate by trolls and haters of Tsunade. And without points supporting my argument for Tsunade in the OP, countering the points of those trolls/haters would be a lot more time consuming.



Wolfpack said:


> OP, maybe it's because I'm not too familiar with the word, but can you tell me how Tsunade blitzed that susanoo? I thought Tsunade's methods during this fight were to get stabbed in order to create openings, and then attack?



Blitzing someone is using an overwhelming amount of speed to land a hit, to the point that they can't react. Tsunade landing a hit on that Susano'o was a blitz, because the Madara clone was incapable of reacting and/or retaliating in any way.

Indeed, Tsunade does attack to create an opening, where the target lets their guard down and allows her to land a strike, but that doesn't appear to be what Tsunade did here.​


----------



## Namikaze Minato (May 30, 2012)

summers said:


> Not many of them. LB,GT,Butterfly,Tsunadefan,Melodie, and like 4 others I dont know.



you forgot Godaime Hokage , CrazyAries , Hancook ,  tsunadefan , Hero.


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> And she said that, because she was facing against _Madara Uchiha_, yeno, the strongest character in the manga? Yeh, him.



Only facing 5 wood clones, Onoki was able to handle his 5 so it's not that big of a deal. 



> Tsunade could attempt to evade constantly, and try to employ high speed in battle against Madara, but *it would ultimately fail. *



Because she is slow. 



> She could do so against lower class shinobi, like Chuunin, but not shinobi who exceed the strength of five kage put together.



Didn't work out well against Kabuto and he was a genin. 



> Hence, that was the only way she could fight and win, not the only way she could fight. There's a difference. In the same way that Ei using high speed, is the only way he could fight and win, but not the only he can fight.



 and the other ones seems to be getting up
"Hokage! Your fighting's getting sloppy!"
"I'm risking my life and fighting. *This is the only way I can do this!*"

Tsunade stated that a sloppy fighting style was the only way she could fight. At this point she isn't fighting to defeat Madara, she isn't even fighting him.


----------



## hitokugutsu (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> *II. Tsunade isn't slow​*
> 
> Which takes me onto my next point. Tsunade isn't regarded as a speed beast, she never has, and she never will. The fact that Tsunade had been impaled with two Susano'o swords is clear evidence that she isn't fast enough to evade _everything_ like Ei can. _However_, I have always stressed the fact that while Tsunade isn't a speed demon, she is far from slow. This chapter outlined this, and I'm unsure if anyone appreciated how good a feat , really was.
> 
> Baring in mind that Madara clones are; even whenever enveloped in Susano'o, still fast enough to blitz Ei _[albeit, only when he lets his guard down for a split second]_. And while Tsunade _may_ have attacked Susano'o from behind, she made an , and its not like Madara can't react to attacks coming from behind anyway. [ 1 ] Tsunade _blitzed_, its the only plausible explanation.



Agree with all except Tsunade speed feats

She is not the fastest. And in no way did she blitz Madara. She was impaled by Susanoo, but this gives *her* the opening since the swords don't mean shit to her 

Also when in Susanoo, (i.e. Sasuke, Itachi, Madara) they are more stationary. They *do* move around, but never blitzing anyone and never move "quickly" (and why should they, since Susanoo protects them)

To conclude, Madara (as any other Uchiha) in Susanoo isn't as fast as the person itself since they are more stationary. 
As for grabbing A, he let his guard down and was already surrounded by 5 Susanoo. Otherwise he seems to doing fine, without even a scratch in him despite having one arm


----------



## principito (May 30, 2012)

She just appears punching hard mindlesly.... as fucking usual

this really doesnt deserve a thread


----------



## tupadre97 (May 30, 2012)

Her regeneration aint shit if she got her head chopped off.


----------



## supersaiyan146 (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> You haven't read the OP, Super Minato126.
> 
> Because I never said that the clones were as fast as the real Madara, nor did I even imply Tsunade was as fast as Ei. In fact, I said the complete opposite.[/indent]



My mistake then 



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Clones of Madara are Uchiha are still fast, because they managed to go behind Ei, and grab him before he could react. However, they only did this by the sheer virtue that Ei let his guard down, under normal circumstances this would not happen. However, even then, a degree of high speed is still required to capture Ei even if his guard is down. Hence, Tsunade blitzing the Susano'o is still impressive.[/indent]



I dont see any reason why the clones would not be as reflexive or as fast as Original..unless you have examples to show otherwise . (Unless the clones are too weak to use chakra powered shunshin ..But I doubt its a problem with Edo Madara) .

Also what "High speed" is needed to grab A who let his guard down(And hindered by Susanoo whip) with a huge entity from a couple of feet ? It just seems vague .

Plus why would the clones give a damn abt being hit ? They could simply reform without ant problem .

*Edit : * Wow.. Looks like you have a lot to deal with


----------



## Dolohov27 (May 30, 2012)

tupadre97 said:


> Her regeneration aint shit if she got her head chopped off.


 I'm pretty sure she can survive getting her head cut off. Tsunade's regeneration is beyond Edo Tensei level.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> Only facing 5 wood clones, Onoki was able to handle his 5 so it's not that big of a deal.



Only facing 5 wood clones? Not a big deal? 



I won't bother. 




> Because she is slow.



How does blitzing Madara's clone make her slow?




> Didn't work out well against Kabuto and he was a genin.



And Naruto, a Genin, blitzed Pein. Your point is invalid.

Kabuto didn't land any fair hits, and Tsunade was 20 years inexperienced at that point in the manga, again, point invalid.



> [ 1 ]
> "Hokage! Your fighting's getting sloppy!"
> "I'm risking my life and fighting. *This is the only way I can do this!*"
> 
> Tsunade stated that a sloppy fighting style was the only way she could fight. At this point she isn't fighting to defeat Madara, she isn't even fighting him.



What do you mean she wasn't fighting Madara? She may not have been actively fighting him, but she was in battle, and was aiming to defeat him. 

And, from feats, we know for a fact that tanking things with her regeneration, and countering, is not Tsunade's only way of fighting. You would be a fool to assume its her only way of fighting. She is talking specifically about fighting and winning against an opponent of that caliber, not fighting for the sake of fighting.



hitokugutsu said:


> Agree with all except Tsunade speed feats
> 
> She is not the fastest. And in no way did she blitz Madara. She was impaled by Susanoo, but this gives *her* the opening since the swords don't mean shit to her



I don't think that is fair to say. We have no idea when or how she was impaled by those swords, it could have been long before she threw that strike. Thus, they wouldn't have created any opening. 



> Also when in Susanoo, (i.e. Sasuke, Itachi, Madara) they are more stationary. They *do* move around, but never blitzing anyone and never move "quickly" (and why should they, since Susanoo protects them)



That is true. But even so, to be able to get behind Ei and capture him, even inside the Susano'o, still requires a great deal of speed. Furthermore, Madara is aware of what Tsunade can do to his defenses, I see no reason why he would try to tank her blows when he can try to evade instead.



> To conclude, Madara (as any other Uchiha) in Susanoo isn't as fast as the person itself since they are more stationary.
> As for grabbing A, he let his guard down and was already surrounded by 5 Susanoo. Otherwise he seems to doing fine, without even a scratch in him despite having one arm



Though, to surround Ei _[even though his guard was down]_ without him noticing still requires a great deal of speed, don't you think? I'm positive a lot of other characters would be unable to achieve this.



tupadre97 said:


> Her regeneration aint shit if she got her head chopped off.



​


----------



## Frawstbite (May 30, 2012)

Dolohov27 said:


> I'm pretty sure she can survive getting her head cut off. Tsunade's regeneration is beyond Edo Tensei level.



She can't get blown up dude.


----------



## Wolfpack (May 30, 2012)

Why do so many people think she can regenerate her head/entire body is she gets decapitated? I love Tsunade as a medic (I always excitedly look forward to her new medical feats more than her combat feats) but there's no evidence to suggest such a thing...


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

SuperMinato146 said:


> My mistake then



Read the OP 




> I dont see any reason why the clones would not be as reflexive or as fast as Original..unless you have examples to show otherwise . (Unless the clones are too weak to use chakra powered shunshin ..But I doubt its a problem with Edo Madara) .



Clones generally aren't as great as their originals. Oddly. Kishimoto logic can be odd sometimes 

Madara admits that his clones won't be fast enough to escape Onoki's Jinton [ 1 ] But evidently, Madara was. _[though, just barely]_

I could bring up examples from other characters as well, such as Naruto landing a rasengan on an Itachi clone, or Anko managing to stab an Orochimaru clone. The originals are generally a lot stronger, so I imagine speed would be included in that.



> Also what "High speed" is needed to grab A who let his guard down(And hindered by Susanoo whip) with a huge entity from a couple of feet ? It just seems vague .



Well, normally I would agree with what you're saying, but because it's _Ei_ we're talking about, I disagree. 

Yes, the Madara clone did ambush Ei from behind, but even then, for the hand to wrap around him, without him even noticing, still requires a lot of speed. Ei has reactions so high that he can even avoid Amaterasu at point blank range, and keep up with Minato _[to an extent]_ so even if you do ambush him, there's still a chance that he can react. Thus, to successfully hit him at all, you're still going to need a fair amount of speed.

I hope that makes sense.



> Plus why would the clones give a damn abt being hit ? They could simply reform without ant problem .



Why would Madara waste more chakra letting bunshin die, and having to create new ones? Whenever he could simply have his clones evade attacks? Madara is aware that Tsunade can shatter Susano'o defenses within a few hits, I doubt he would risk letting his bunshin take hits.​


----------



## spiritmight (May 30, 2012)

Another chapter featuring Tsunade doing something, another thread containing a 10-paragraph dissertation in the OP


----------



## Doge (May 30, 2012)

> She blitzed a clone of Madara Uchiha. Madara Uchiha clones are fast. Feat is therefore impressive.
> 
> Fact.




Which was clearly a trap, practically the same thing as hitting a substitution log.


Fact.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> Which was clearly a trap, practically the same thing as hitting a substitution log.
> 
> 
> Fact.



How was it a trap?​


----------



## Namikaze Minato (May 30, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> Which was clearly a trap, practically the same thing as hitting a substitution log.
> 
> 
> Fact.



my point exactly


----------



## Doge (May 30, 2012)

Wolfpack said:


> Why do so many people think she can regenerate her head/entire body is she gets decapitated? I love Tsunade as a medic (I always excitedly look forward to her new medical feats more than her combat feats) but there's no evidence to suggest such a thing...



Because the human body can already do that, she just does it 100x faster, derp.




*Spoiler*: __ 



It's impossible to fix a broken spinal chord.  All Tsunade does is split cells extremely quickly.  Naturally, it won't fix a wound that is already not able to be healed from.

Then Tsunade runs into the issue of having no blood coming to the brain...


----------



## spiritmight (May 30, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> Which was clearly a trap, practically the same thing as hitting a substitution log.
> 
> 
> Fact.





Godaime Tsunade said:


> How was it a trap?​





Gonna play devil's advocate here

It was INDEED a "trap". Point for Madara.

However, the whole thing happened because Madara was pushed against a wall by Tsunade--being pressured into using a clone. He had no other choice, or he would have been injured. He didn't plan it like "haha let me get this bitch with a clone". It was more like "oh shit this bitch might hurt me let me use a clone"


So point for Tsunade.

Tie game.


----------



## Melodie (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade is clearly talking about the current chapter (Punching the Susano'o), not the one where she got impaled by Madara's Bunshin feint.​


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

spiritmight said:


> Gonna play devil's advocate here
> 
> It was INDEED a "trap". Point for Madara.
> 
> ...



Madara created his clones several chapters ago, he didn't make it as soon as Tsunade struck him as a method of escaping damage.

So I again I ponder, how this was a trap ​


----------



## Melodie (May 30, 2012)

May I say it again? Godaime is talking about the current chapter.​


----------



## Jad (May 30, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> Because the human body can already do that, she just does it 100x faster, derp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What gives you the impression it works the same way us real humans regen?


----------



## Doge (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Madara created his clones several chapters ago, he didn't make it as soon as Tsunade struck him as a method of escaping damage.
> 
> So I again I ponder, how this was a trap ​



So...that actually supports it being a trap.  He set it up long before the kages were ready.


Naturally, they had been fighting the clone for a while and didn't notice.  This is similar to fighting a bunshin Kakashi/Naruto while the real one counters you.  If the cloned Madara was not a trap, then therefore, Kakashi never actually set up a trap for Sasuke, Pain, Itachi, etc.


----------



## Synn (May 30, 2012)

You know what's funny? Ei labeled Tsunade's fighting style as sloppy, but moments later he was owned by a mere genjutsu...

Ei is a noob, that is all.


----------



## Doge (May 30, 2012)

Jad said:


> What gives you the impression it works the same way us real humans regen?



Doton: Kajūgan no Jutsu



It doesn't matter how fast cell division occurs if the specific body part cannot be reconstructed.


The tech simply forcibly stimulates the divisions with proteins.  From what I can tell, it's just amped up regeneration. "...impossible for her to die by any means.." is a no limits fallacy.  And it never states how exactly one can regenerate cells such as brain cells.  Those of which cannot be replaced.  

In essence, Tsunade's healing does not make much sense when put into actual medical context.  It speeds up division, but doesn't state how it can actually heal an non treatable wound.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

Melodie said:


> Godaime Tsunade is clearly talking about the current chapter (Punching the Susano'o), not the one where she got impaled by Madara's Bunshin feint.​





> How is Kakashi using a raiton clone a trap?
> 
> 
> Because everyone thought it was the real one, while in reality, the ninja was lurking in the shadows waiting for the perfect time to strike.
> ...





Melodie said:


> May I say it again? Godaime is talking about the current chapter.​





lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> So...that actually supports it being a trap.  He set it up long before the kages were ready.
> 
> 
> Naturally, they had been fighting the clone for a while and didn't notice.  This is similar to fighting a bunshin Kakashi/Naruto while the real one counters you.  If the cloned Madara was not a trap, then therefore, Kakashi never actually set up a trap for Sasuke, Pain, Itachi, etc.



  



Synn said:


> You know what's funny? Ei labeled Tsunade's fighting style as sloppy, but moments later he was owned by a mere genjutsu...
> 
> Ei is a noob, that is all.



Indeed ​


----------



## MangaR (May 30, 2012)

Apart from Oonoki she is the only one who hit those Susanoo, E just want some attantion after being useless sammich making guy in the group 
She was healing Kages' asses probably even giving them chakra offpanel, she is unkillable at the moment, so yeah she can afford to tired abit.


----------



## Doge (May 30, 2012)

Synn said:


> You know what's funny? Ei labeled Tsunade's fighting style as sloppy, but moments later he was owned by a mere genjutsu...
> 
> Ei is a noob, that is all.



Tsukuyomi can wreck anyone.


Tsunade has the will of fire?  Psh, screw that.  Just take the will of fire away mentally and torture her by changing reality.  Technically, if someone as apathetic such  as Madara was allowed the full 72 hour Itachi mark of torture, no one would survive simply because he is not a pacifist.


----------



## Doge (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Indeed ​





No refutations?


Is this how Tsunade fans operate now?


----------



## Melodie (May 30, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> Doton: Kajūgan no Jutsu
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are you doing this by purpose? By the way, this is the telegrams.​


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> No refutations?
> 
> 
> Is this how Tsunade fans operate now?



Melodie has already told you, *twice*, that I am talking about Tsunade's feat in the _current_ chapter, not the one in Chapter 577, the one you linked, and have talked about in the last 2 posts.

That is why I did not reply. And chose to laugh at the communication failure ​


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Only facing 5 wood clones? Not a big deal?
> 
> 
> 
> I won't bother.



Not really, even children could beat Jiraiya's shadow clone. And like I said, Onoki beat the 5 clones he fought. 



> How does blitzing Madara's clone make her slow?



What blitz?



> And Naruto, a Genin, blitzed Pein. Your point is invalid.



When?



> Kabuto didn't land any fair hits, and Tsunade was 20 years inexperienced at that point in the manga, again, point invalid.



Actually he did, he landed more "fair" hits on Tsunade than the other way around. The only time Tsunade was able to land a hit was when Kabuto closed his eyes. 



> What do you mean she wasn't fighting Madara? She may not have been actively fighting him, but she was in battle, and was aiming to defeat him.



She was fighting his 5 clones. She wasn't fighting Madara directly. 



> And, from feats, we know for a fact that tanking things with her regeneration, and countering, is not Tsunade's only way of fighting. You would be a fool to assume its her only way of fighting. She is talking specifically about fighting and winning against an opponent of that caliber, not fighting for the sake of fighting.



It's Tsunade's statement, not mine. Take it up with her.


----------



## Doge (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Melodie has already told you, *twice*, that I am talking about Tsunade's feat in the _current_ chapter, not the one in Chapter 577, the one you linked, and have talked about in the last 2 posts.
> 
> That is why I did not reply. And chose to laugh at the communication failure ​



In that case, she is on Raikage level.


----------



## Synn (May 30, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> Tsukuyomi can wreck anyone.



That is precisely why you never look at your opponent's eyes.

Tsunade didn't make that mistake.


----------



## Melodie (May 30, 2012)

Synn said:


> That is precisely why you never look at your opponent's eyes.
> 
> Tsunade didn't make that mistake.



The Raikage got caught in a normal sharingan genjutsu anyway.​


----------



## Maerala (May 30, 2012)

I figure some things get lost in translation. I saw "sloppy" more as "reckless." It's true that she's pretty much just letting herself take all these hits because she can just fall back on her regeneration. I didn't take it to mean that she wasn't performing well, just that she should take it easy.


----------



## Wolfpack (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Hokage said:


> I figure some things get lost in translation. I saw "sloppy" more as "reckless." It's true that she's pretty much just letting herself take all these hits because she can just fall back on her regeneration. I didn't take it to mean that she wasn't performing well, just that she should take it easy.



my thoughts exactly


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> Not really, even children could beat Jiraiya's shadow clone. And like I said, Onoki beat the 5 clones he fought.



So now you're implying that children could take on Madara's Susano'o clones.

This just gets better  




> What blitz?



The one in the OP. The one I've talked about repeatedly throughout this entire thread.



> When?



Here. Here, and I'm sure there are other occasions as well, but I can't be bothered fetching more links.




> Actually he did, he landed more "fair" hits on Tsunade than the other way around. The only time Tsunade was able to land a hit was when Kabuto closed his eyes.



Nope. Tsunade tackled herself into Kabuto, causing her to be hit by Kabuto's chakra scalpels by accident. While she couldn't move, Kabuto stuck her chest. On the other hand, in the split second where Kabuto closed his eyes, Tsunade got up , went behind him, smacked him in the back of the neck, and ran several meters forwards. And once he was immobilised by Rashinsho, she landed another strike on him.

2 strikes each, both sides had disadvantages, though Tsunade had a lot more.





> She was fighting his 5 clones. She wasn't fighting Madara directly.



And fighting 5 clones is still evidently extremely difficult, since all of the Kages were struggling, if not losing against them. Hence, she would have lost if she didn't use the fighting style she excelled in most.



lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> In that case, she is on Raikage level.



Suit yourself.​


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> So now you're implying that children could take on Madara's Susano'o clones.
> 
> This just gets better


 
I'm making no such implications. I'm simply stating that the clones are weaker than the original. 




> The one in the OP. The one I've talked about repeatedly throughout this entire thread.
> 
> Here. Here, and I'm sure there are other occasions as well, but I can't be bothered fetching more links.



The links don't work.



> Nope. Tsunade tackled herself into Kabuto, causing her to be hit by Kabuto's chakra scalpels by accident.



Here
Here
Doesn't look like an accident to me. Looks like Tsunade being too slow to dodge. 



> While she couldn't move, Kabuto stuck her chest. On the other hand, in the split second where Kabuto closed his eyes, Tsunade got up , went behind him, smacked him in the back of the neck, and ran several meters forwards. And once he was immobilised by Rashinsho, she landed another strike on him.



So Kabuto hitting Tsunade with skill is a cheap shot and Tsunade hitting Kabuto while he had his eyes closed is perfectly legitimate? 



> 2 strikes each, both sides had disadvantages, though Tsunade had a lot more.



Having more skill is a big advantage Kabuto had, I'll give that to you. 



> And fighting 5 clones is still evidently extremely difficult, since all of the Kages were struggling, if not losing against them. Hence, she would have lost if she didn't use the fighting style she excelled in most



Onoki wasn't.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 30, 2012)

TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> I'm making no such implications. I'm simply stating that the clones are weaker than the original.



And yet, the clones are still great enough to defeat Mei Terumi and Gaara. And have enough speed to blitz Ei, even when he only lets his guard down for a _split second_






> The links don't work.



Quote them and look them up yourself. Chapters 430-31




> Here
> Here
> Doesn't look like an accident to me. Looks like Tsunade being too slow to dodge.



Then you aren't interpreting what you're seeing correctly.

*1)* Kabuto went behind Tsunade
*2)* Tsunade turned around and tackled him
*3)* Kabuto has chakra scalpels active on his hands
*4)* Tsunade makes contact with chakra scalpels as she tackles into Kabuto
*5)* Kabuto is sent flying backwards, while Tsunade now can't move.

If anyone was too slow to dodge, it was Kabuto.



> So Kabuto hitting Tsunade with skill is a cheap shot and Tsunade hitting Kabuto while he had his eyes closed is perfectly legitimate?



But he used very little skill. His entire method of hitting her was based on immobilising her via one fluky shot. We know for a fact that Tsunade can evade Kabuto's attacks [ 1 ] But in this instance, it was nothing to do with evading Kabuto, it was Tsunade tackling into the chakra scalpels by accident.




> Having more skill is a big advantage Kabuto had, I'll give that to you.



Kabuto did not have anymore skill than Tsunade. Mind you, he did have a lot of other advantages over her:

*1)* Tsunade had a blood phobia, thus she couldn't summon, and she was paralysed at the fear of blood
*2)* She was 20 years out of practice, and very rusty in combat
*3)* She was tired out from chasing Kabuto and Orochimaru a great distance into the battlefield
*4)* She had no knowledge on her opponent.

Kabuto on the other hand had blood pills and other medical paraphernalia equipped, he had full knowledge of her abilities and blood phobia, he was healthy, he was completely in shape and he wasn't restricted in the use of any of his abilities. And yet, he still had to resort to using her blood phobia to defeat her, he couldn't defeat her in combat otherwise. 




> Onoki wasn't.



Onoki didn't defeat any of his clones, and he was exhausted of his chakra reserves. Of course he was struggling.​


----------



## IchLiebe (May 30, 2012)

We have yet to see her drunken fist.


----------



## UltimateDeadpool (May 30, 2012)

Yeah, Tsunade was beating the shit out of 5 Susanoos at once. Definitely major hype for her.


----------



## Doge (May 30, 2012)

IchLiebe said:


> We have yet to see her drunken fist.




*Spoiler*: __ 



She lifts up her shirt GG 







Probably not as proficient as Lee's, but I would say she would be pretty darn unpredictable and deadly.


----------



## Butterfly (May 30, 2012)

Namikaze Minato said:


> not sloppy huh? , E is the expert on Taijutsu , when he says Tsunade is sloppy which she is , i'll believe him over you.
> 
> and Tsunade is slow , punching a throw away clone aint a worthy speed feat ..... for a Kage !!



Tsunade is a master at the art of taijutsu as well. Not only does the databook give her a perfect five, but her strength style taijutsu is heavily implied to be deadly and is quite effective. If it made Kabuto, who had knowledge on her, sought to change locations and tire her out before engaging her, if it made Madara retract his statement about being a weak woman, etc. then I'd state she's pretty mastered at the art.

Besides, everyone's taijutsu style is different. A is looking at Tsunade through her lenses as what constitutes as taijutsu. He has no knowledge on her durability, her chakra reserves and her ability to regenerate. As such, he's going to be cautious to make sure she doesn't approach those parameters. Tsunade, on the other hand, knows how much chakra she has and the limitations of her abilities. As such, she doesn't have to be careful. She can merely take an attack and keep going. If A had full knowledge on Tsunade and her abilities, you'd have a case but he doesn't and you don't. 




TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> [ 1 ]
> Tsunade doesn't have a choice in the matter. Her lack of skill makes it impossible for her to fight any other way.


It's not her lack of skill that makes it impossible for her to fight any other way. We know she has slug summons and slug mode has been hinted at recently with Kabuto's statement about a legendary place. 

By Tsunade's statement about risking her life, this is her usual taijutsu style. When she has the merit of regenerating going on, she doesn't give a rats ass about damage. Why would she? The only way she can do this is most likely referring to giving it her all, and throwing herself in the path of the blades. She doesn't have Raikage speed. She can't evade all of their attacks (and, if she only has two blades and is fighting with them in her, I assume she's been dodging a lot more since there's a 5:1 ratio) so she'll take the ones she can afford to get shanked with. Tsunade has made multiple statements about putting her life on the line. 

It's not a lack of skill, it's just that her taijutsu style is completely different. Finally, by Tsunade's own words, she's not just a medic which implies she's decent, if not great, in the art of combat.


----------



## Gabe (May 30, 2012)

she was doing good i think ay said she was sloppy/reckless cause she had a couple susanno sword stabbing her through the stomach. i think he meant even though she couls heal instantly she should not let herself get stabbed. i wonder how she was not cut in half. that was epic fighting while she had being impaled


----------



## Skywalker (May 30, 2012)

Only quality thread made this week.

She tanks swords like nothing, is being epic, and people still hate.


----------



## Butterfly (May 30, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> It's impossible to fix a broken spinal chord.  All Tsunade does is split cells extremely quickly.  Naturally, it won't fix a wound that is already not able to be healed from.
> 
> Then Tsunade runs into the issue of having no blood coming to the brain...


I disagree. This, and your other posts, are fine posts and all but Kishimoto doesn't know shit about the human body to make it valid. Tsunade states she can reconstruct organs and limbs. This isn't possible for your average human. It's why we have prosthetics and organ transplants. With that said, with the fact that people can live without their organs (including their brain) [Sasori], people can have more than one heart [Kakuzu], the inclusion of chakra in cells and the tangible existence of a soul, the human body in Naruto is obviously quite different than our human bodies. As such, it's entirely possible for Tsunade to regenerate spinal chords and the like, because, as I've stated before, the technique's intention and abilities contradict the merits of human regeneration.


----------



## Doge (May 30, 2012)

Butterfly said:


> I disagree. This, and your other posts, are fine posts and all but Kishimoto doesn't know shit about the human body to make it valid. Tsunade states she can reconstruct organs and limbs. This isn't possible for your average human. It's why we have prosthetics and organ transplants. With that said, with the fact that people can live without their organs (including their brain) [Sasori], people can have more than one heart [Kakuzu], the inclusion of chakra in cells and the tangible existence of a soul, the human body in Naruto is obviously quite different than our human bodies. As such, it's entirely possible for Tsunade to regenerate spinal chords and the like, because, as I've stated before, the technique's intention and abilities contradict the merits of human regeneration.



That being said, we do not know the limitations because by default we have no definition of what the limits to her jutsu are.


Can she regenerate from being burned to ashes?  Or being deconstructed by Jinton?  Is she invincible or is there a limit?  All we can go by are feats.  Or else we are doomed to guessing the limits just like with the Yata Mirror.  Some people think it can deflect absolutely any attack, while some do not.

We'll never know unless boundaries are set.  Since her healing can exceed normal healing prospects, the no limits fallacy takes place.

Now we can say she regenerates from everything simply because it's stated she'd be invincible and because of the unknown details of her technique.


----------



## Butterfly (May 30, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> T
> Can she regenerate from being burned to ashes?  Or being deconstructed by Jinton?  Is she invincible or is there a limit?  All we can go by are feats.  Or else we are doomed to guessing the limits just like with the Yata Mirror.  Some people think it can deflect absolutely any attack, while some do not.


Burned to ashes? Generally, this doesn't happen. It has to be hot hot hot for someone to be burnt to crisps. Even third degree burns, whilst grizzly, aren't super super deep. Smoke inhalation kills more. Anyways, I'd argue that Tsunade would regenerate as she's being burned. So, yes, to some extent. 

Deconstructed by Jinton? Most likely not. She needs something to uh, regenerate from. 

Is she invincible? No. There are some very strong exceptions that can take her down but she loses her heart/head/stabbed in the spinal/etc. aren't going to cut it by sheer precedents and implications. Who knows though, with the latest Susanno, she might be vivisected for us to know for sure. 



> We'll never know unless boundaries are set.  Since her healing can exceed normal healing prospects, the no limits fallacy takes place.
> 
> Now we can say she regenerates from everything simply because it's stated she'd be invincible and because of the unknown details of her technique.


We don't know the boundaries but I don't think there's a no limits fallacy. There's just a vague limits fallacy. The boundaries are contradicting and interesting when you factor in previous precedents, how the technique work, how the human body actually regenerates in regards to the artistic licenses kishimoto takes, etc. I just don't think normal beheading or vivisection will kill her. Nothing against you or anyone else that holds an otherwise different opinion since it's a very debatable prospect, but, at the same time, I don't think she should be derided just cause others explore the theories about head regenerating. 

It just comes down to various things. Does she have chakra? Is there pieces of her body left or is she literally microscopic dust mite food? Did her body get warped away to another dimension? It's a complex, case by case flow chart to state the very least but to state that it's only (our) human regeneration but faster isn't very accurate.


----------



## Doge (May 30, 2012)

It really depends on whether a shot to the brain would end the technique.


If she can survive a decapitation, a shot to the head, and then keep healing, then she is practically unkillable.


She can both:

A. Regen the entire body

B. Heal without her brain commanding it.


Thus, her technique would keep working even if she was pierced through the brain, meaning she cannot be killed by anything short of total disintegration.  Even then, we don't know how well it works for the microscopic level and how small of a body part is needed in order to fully regen.


Huge doors are opened if a direct hit to the brain can be healed.  Practically no physical attack could kill her since she can regen the entire body with just a head left over, or less if her brain is a non factor.


----------



## ch1p (May 30, 2012)

I agree. Tsu's fighting style is just adapted to her opponent right now. So she'll take hits, but since she has a counter to said hits, it's alright to use such a method. It's using her strenghts to counter an otherwise difficult to deal with situation.

If she could dodge? Perhaps. Sakura made a big deal out of being able to dodge due to Tsunade's teachings and she did so flawlessly, so I'd assume Tsunade is the same in that department. If she would fight more effectively that way? I'll take Tsunade's word for it and say _no_. For someone who isn't a speed demon, it becomes very difficult to do anything but dodge. When Tsunade can deal with being hit very easily, why would Tsuande bother with dodging?

It is indeed careless, but it's a valid style nonetheless. Tsunade is just being smart about the way she fights. Being hit by the two swords doesn't faze her.

A comments are just hopeful of scoring some points. What a tough guy. 



bleakwinter said:


> Ei senselessly lost his arm trying to hit Sasuke. I don't believe he has the right to call Tsunade's fighting style "sloppy".





Now to read past page 1. I see this is going to be thread of the week on the Telegrams.


----------



## Butterfly (May 30, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> It really depends on whether a shot to the brain would end the technique.
> 
> 
> If she can survive a decapitation, a shot to the head, and then keep healing, then she is practically unkillable.


Unkillable if you're focused on destroying/chopping off a part of your opponent. In cases like Tsunade and regeneration, total annihilation seems like the best tactic. It's like Orochimaru, but not as creepy and needs a specific technique to work. 



> Thus, her technique would keep working even if she was pierced through the brain, meaning she cannot be killed by anything short of total disintegration.  Even then, we don't know how well it works for the microscopic level and how small of a body part is needed in order to fully regen.
> 
> 
> Huge doors are opened if a direct hit to the brain can be healed.  Practically no physical attack could kill her since she can regen the entire body with just a head left over, or less if her brain is a non factor.


Well, I agree with this since it's mostly objective statements. However, I don't see what's the big problem with her being able to regenerate everything. It doesn't preclude people from attacking her whilst she regenerates. If they chop off a leg, they can attack her as she regenerates that leg and just pack on the injuries. It'll take a lot to kill her but it'll work if they can survive that long. People just see the fact that a case for her regenerating her head can be made and freeze there ignoring the context and what would happen during such a situation, unless people think Tsunade's head is in and of itself a threat.


----------



## Sarry (May 30, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great Thread, it was a good read, and it made sense. 
When I read the chapter, and saw Ei's comment, i figured he said it because Tsunade was fighting for a long time and she was getting tired/low-chakra. Hence the 'sloppy' comment 

But I do agree, Tsunade taijutsu isn't sloppy, nor she's slow. She is very capable in CQC and she can afford to get hit/impaled while Ei can't do so.


----------



## Doge (May 30, 2012)

If the brain isn't needed to regenerate, I'm no longer sure which body parts would take priority when regenerating.


If her head, legs, and arms are all cut off with the brain being punctured; would Tsunade only heal one of those body parts?



This is confusing.  WTB Kishi explanation.


----------



## nadinkrah (May 30, 2012)

Nothing new. This is why Tsunade fans are looked upon as a joke lol. You try to create big feats out of nothing. Stop trying so hard and accept that all she's good at is support.

Yeah I know it sucks that you're favorite char can't fight but, deal with it lol.


----------



## Butterfly (May 30, 2012)

nadinkrah said:


> Nothing new. This is why Tsunade fans are looked upon as a joke lol. You try to create big feats out of nothing. Stop trying so hard and accept that all she's good at is support.
> 
> Yeah I know it sucks that you're favorite char can't fight but, deal with it lol.



I was waiting for the obligatory asspained post by Nadinkrah. Glad you came. All she's good at isn't support though. The manga hammers this home through just about every damn source that encounters her through the manga (up to and including Madara Uchiha).

Maybe she doesn't have Kisame levels of power or isn't a swordsman of the mist, and, therefore, isn't interesting to you but it's not like your posts are remotely accurate either. Any and all feats she magically gets are miniscule, despite the fact that a majority of the naruto universe would be left in the shitter if they got stabbed with Susanno swords/Orochimaru's sword/had to fight Kabuto whilst exhausted and 20 years out of practice/etc. She may not be the strongest (or even in the league of the strongest) but stating she isn't competent in battle is a laughably dumb opinion.


----------



## Samehada (May 30, 2012)

Namikaze Minato said:


> not sloppy huh? , E is the expert on Taijutsu , when he says Tsunade is sloppy which she is , i'll believe him over you.
> 
> and Tsunade is slow , punching a throw away clone aint a worthy speed feat ..... for a Kage !!



This is so ignorant of a post.

Could you possibly consider the fact that she was getting tired hence why he said "sloppy." Oh, and Tsunade is also an expert on taijutsu and is recognized for it.


----------



## Godaime Kazekage (May 31, 2012)

Tsunade fans just accept that your favorite character sucks at just about everything but support. She is the BEST support you're going to get and that's not a bad thing. Accept it and stop trying to validate your fanaticism each time she gets a panel.


----------



## Butterfly (May 31, 2012)

Godaime Kazekage said:


> Tsunade fans just accept that your favorite character sucks at just about everything but support. She is the BEST support you're going to get and that's not a bad thing. Accept it and stop trying to validate your fanaticism each time she gets a panel.


In the time you took to write this post, you could have called education connection. To be quite honest, it's posts like these that tarnish Tsunade's reputation (lmao am i seriously typing this...). We're not arguing that she's the top of the top and superior to everyone else when it comes to facing everyone else in the series. What we're merely arguing is that she doesn't suck at combat and is quite decent at it (something which the manga reinforces). We're not arguing that she's the best hokage ever, but we're arguing that she's a great kage (something which the manga reinforces). We're not arguing that she's smarter than Shikamaru, Kakashi and Itachi combined, but we're arguing that she's awfully intelligent in her own right.

Yet, because of posts like these, it's quite an uphill battle. Especially when the gray area between "BEST FIGHTER/KAGE/THINKER EVER" and "THEY SUCK AT FIGHTING/POLITICS/THINKING" is little to non-existent. We're just stating she's pretty damn good with these things, not the best of everything. And she certainly doesn't _suck_. Good lord, what ever gave you that idea?


----------



## Maerala (May 31, 2012)

Godaime Kazekage said:


> Tsunade fans just accept that your favorite character sucks at just about everything but support. She is the BEST support you're going to get and that's not a bad thing. Accept it and stop trying to validate your fanaticism each time she gets a panel.



What is so terrible about Tsunade's battle abilities that people feel the need to say that she sucks at it? In that respect, she hasn't performed any worse than her fellow Kage in this battle. She was even shown slamming a Susanoo this chapter, whereas most others collapsed without doing anything. The past few chapters have even focused somewhat on showing that she isn't just a support ninja. Both herself and even Madara admitted this.


----------



## Turrin (May 31, 2012)

I think people underestimate Tsunade's battle strength, but I still don't think she distinguished herself as a primarily battle oriented shinobi & I still believe she received the Hokage title and equal fame to the other Sannin due primarily to her support capabilities. However I have never thought that was a bad thing, because she is a medical Ninja first and foremost.


----------



## supersaiyan146 (May 31, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Read the OP .​



Ok 



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Clones generally aren't as great as their originals. Oddly. Kishimoto logic can be odd sometimes .​



The clones are stated to be less powerful in general . Its because they lack the chakra to execute chakra exhaustive techniques like the originals and are not really durable .



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Madara admits that his clones won't be fast enough to escape Onoki's Jinton [ 1 ] But evidently, Madara was. _[though, just barely]_​



1) The distance matters . They are much closer to the jinton than Madara .

2) I am not sure abt this..but doesn't a massive chakra construct around you kind of slow you down ?



Godaime Tsunade said:


> I could bring up examples from other characters as well, such as Naruto landing a rasengan on an Itachi clone.​



If you mean the shouten clone ..then he was engaged in Taijutsu with Kakashi.



> Anko managing to stab an Orochimaru clone



Post the scans plz.



> The originals are generally a lot stronger, so I imagine speed would be included in that.



And I see no reason why it should be the case since clones are the exact replicas . The only difference being the chakra .



> Yes, the Madara clone did ambush Ei from behind, but even then, for the hand to wrap around him, without him even noticing, still requires a lot of speed



He couldn't notice it because he let his guard down . And has A displayed keen ninja senses like Itachi or Minato ?



> Ei has reactions so high that he can even avoid Amaterasu at point blank range, and keep up with Minato [to an extent] so even if you do ambush him, there's still a chance that he can react. Thus, to successfully hit him at all, you're still going to need a fair amount of speed.
> 
> I hope that makes sense.



Everything goes down the drain once you let your guard down . 

I am not saying Madara's clones are slow or anything . In my opinion they are fast as the original and Madara has shown great reflexes . Its just that I dont think this feat is impressive .



> Why would Madara waste more chakra letting bunshin die, and having to create new ones? Whenever he could simply have his clones evade attacks? Madara is aware that Tsunade can shatter Susano'o defenses within a few hits, I doubt he would risk letting his bunshin take hits.



Because he is just playing around and doesn't give a damn . 

As you said it takes multiple hits to completely shatter the Susanoo..It gives a chance for other clones to attack Tsunade and for the damaged Susanoo to reform .


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 31, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> And yet, the clones are still great enough to defeat Mei Terumi and Gaara. And have enough speed to blitz Ei, even when he only lets his guard down for a _split second_



True, Tsunade was no match for the clones. it was completely one sided. 



> Quote them and look them up yourself. Chapters 430-31



You want me to find the pages you are trying to use as proof? 




> Then you aren't interpreting what you're seeing correctly.
> 
> *1)* Kabuto went behind Tsunade
> *2)* Tsunade turned around and tackled him
> ...



looked
Will you ever acknowledge Tsunade as anything more than a pair of tits? Look right there, she stated that Kabuto performed the attack and that he could have aimed at her arteries. In other words Tsunade acknowledged that Kabuto aimed at her muscles and that it wasn't an accident as you claim. Tsunade isn't some air headed bimbo who would cut her own muscles on the enemy's chakra scalpels. 



> But he used very little skill. His entire method of hitting her was based on immobilising her via one fluky shot. We know for a fact that Tsunade can evade Kabuto's attacks [ 1 ] But in this instance, it was nothing to do with evading Kabuto, it was Tsunade tackling into the chakra scalpels by accident.
> 
> Kabuto did not have anymore skill than Tsunade. Mind you, he did have a lot of other advantages over her:



[ 1 ]
Tsunade stated that he may be better than she was in her prime. Her prime was more than 20 years ago so she acknowledged his superiority to her current state. Kabuto was/is more skilled than Tsunade. 



> *1)* Tsunade had a blood phobia, thus she couldn't summon, and she was paralysed at the fear of blood
> *2)* She was 20 years out of practice, and very rusty in combat
> *3)* She was tired out from chasing Kabuto and Orochimaru a great distance into the battlefield
> *4)* She had no knowledge on her opponent.



Kabuto wasn't even alive for 20 years at that point, the amount of experience Tsunade has had should have more than made up for any disadvantage she was faced with. She was at one point one of the Sannin, she shouldn't need to make up excuses for losing to somebody of Kabuto's caliber. 



> Kabuto on the other hand had blood pills and other medical paraphernalia equipped, he had full knowledge of her abilities and blood phobia, he was healthy, he was completely in shape and he wasn't restricted in the use of any of his abilities. And yet, he still had to resort to using her blood phobia to defeat her, he couldn't defeat her in combat otherwise.



So Kabuto came prepared while Tsunade came with her heels on. Is it Kabuto's fault that Tsunade is incompetent? 



> Onoki didn't defeat any of his clones, and he was exhausted of his chakra reserves. Of course he was struggling.



He stopped them, Madara even commented on it. Did you read this chapter?


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (May 31, 2012)

Eh, honestly I'd say her Taijutsu was sloppy given A's comment. He's the Taijutsu master there, he's the guy who knows what he's talking about in Taijutsu and given her comments I'm sure she sees that as well. She said she has to do it, I mean it's obvious really. I wasn't impressed with her Taijutsu, I was impressed with her strength which is what she needs to be commented about. 

Outside of that it is what it is really.


----------



## Namikaze Minato (May 31, 2012)

Samehada said:


> This is so ignorant of a post.
> 
> Could you possibly consider the fact that she was getting tired hence why he said "sloppy." Oh, and Tsunade is also an expert on taijutsu and is recognized for it.



you call me post ignorant , yet you need reading comprehension.

Tsunade wasnt tired , because she gave Oonoki Chakra afterwards , if she was tired she couldnt have done that.

her fighting style is sloppy , that's all there is to it.


----------



## mylastduchess (May 31, 2012)

Namikaze Minato said:


> you call me post ignorant , yet you need reading comprehension.
> 
> Tsunade wasnt tired , because she gave Oonoki Chakra afterwards , if she was tired she couldnt have done that.
> 
> her fighting style is sloppy , that's all there is to it.



Couldn't people freakin learn what sloppy means in the first place or understand what the Raikage said before bashing Tsunade

Sloppy just means careless, or maybe a better translation would have been reckless 

(which the Raikage only said because she had two swords peircing her)

WTF does that have anything to do with with her taijutsu skill as some genius here keeps pointing out?


----------



## Kage (May 31, 2012)

I would agree that having to maim yourself that severely for offense is pretty sloppy. Raikage would know all about that being the reason he's missing a limb.


----------



## Chuck (May 31, 2012)

having two Susanoo blades in her may have been _sloppy_ but her tactics were brilliant imo; I believe she did that to disarm at least two Susanoos (assuming they can't simply recreate another sword)


----------



## Spanktastik (May 31, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Tsunade is also an expert of taijutsu.
> 
> I am not going to argue, nor debate this, because its so blatantly obvious, and if you deny it or think otherwise, you are a troll.
> 
> ...



He is a troll for stating Tsunade absolutely sucks at taijutsu? Every knuckle head (Naruto for example) can do what she can with enough raw strenght and durability. She is lacking the much needed refinement of a taijutsu expert.

She even admits she is fightning sloppy because its the only way for her to keep up. She is to weak to do anything else.

Madara's clones have no speed feats, Madara in Susaano has no speed feats, Susaano possibly even slows him down. Tsunade for all intends and purpose is slow compared to other kage lv fighters.


----------



## wibisana (May 31, 2012)

one is stupid when saying tsunade is slow.
her speed compared to Oro and Jiaraya is "equal"
se is strongest (big hitter) among them make her worth as Taijutsu master
lol


----------



## Cjones (May 31, 2012)

It was smart, but Tsunade was indeed being sloppy by needlessly letting herself tank injuries. At a certain point off panel, seemed like she stopped giving a fuck.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (May 31, 2012)

She is Smashy Smashy.


----------



## Maerala (May 31, 2012)

Spanktastik said:


> He is a troll for stating Tsunade absolutely sucks at taijutsu? Every knuckle head (Naruto for example) can do what she can with enough raw strenght and durability. She is lacking the much needed refinement of a taijutsu expert.
> 
> She even admits she is fightning sloppy because its the only way for her to keep up. She is to weak to do anything else.
> 
> Madara's clones have no speed feats, Madara in Susaano has no speed feats, Susaano possibly even slows him down. Tsunade for all intends and purpose is slow compared to other kage lv fighters.



And ironically, she was the only one shown to actually be getting any hits on the clones, except for Ōnoki, of course.

A better translation would've been 'reckless,' but at least it's effective.


----------



## Chuck (May 31, 2012)

Tsunade smash!! 

her fighting style really IS similar to Hulk's; tank & smash shit


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 31, 2012)

There's far too many comments here for me to be able to cover _all of them_. So, I suppose I'll just make a few brief points, and anyone who disagrees can quote them. Unless you're a troll

Clones are generally weaker than their originals. And I think that means in speed as well, hence why Naruto landed a hit on Itachi by himself [ 1 ], and Anko could land a hit on Orochimaru. [ 1 ]

Tsunade is great at evasion and following attack patterns, given that she is the one who taught Sakura how to do so. However, without the necessary speed to evade Madara, she relies on her Byakugo and natural resilience to tank attacks in order for her to retaliate and make successful blows. I don't think this is sloppy - because she isn't being careless. She probably isn't even trying to evade anymore, because she is fully aware that she can't do it, and that her medical ninjutsu allows her tank whatever she is hit with regardless. If she was being sloppy, her taijutsu style probably wouldn't be very effective, but given that she's still on her own two feet, and able to land blows on fast opponents, I'd say what she's doing _is_ effective. Of course, like Godaime Hokage said, I think Tsunade is being more reckless, than she is sloppy.  But, she's allowed to be reckless, because she can afford to.

Part II Tsunade is far above Part I Kabuto. I don't even need to explain that one.


*Edit;* Oh and, thanks for reading the OP guys, I'm glad this had a great turnout :33​


----------



## Sarry (May 31, 2012)

Namikaze Minato said:


> you call me post ignorant , yet you need reading comprehension.
> 
> Tsunade wasnt tired , because she gave Oonoki Chakra afterwards , if she was tired she couldnt have done that.
> 
> her fighting style is sloppy , that's all there is to it.



That's not credible since it came from Raikage just before_ he was caught by one Susanoo and genjutsu'd_. He literally had to be rescued. He isn't in any position to complain about "sloppy"

Point is, all the Kages were tired, Gaara and Mei were overwhelmed by the Susanoos since they were inexperienced compared to the other kages. It is natural that Tsunade would be tired and her fighting style gets less efficient...


----------



## BlazingCobaltX (May 31, 2012)

Tsunade is doing great in this fight.


----------



## Kusa (May 31, 2012)

She was cool but can't beat Oonoki in badassness.


----------



## Nidaime Mizukage (May 31, 2012)

Dat Senju.

She can be as reckless as she wants. The God Damn Godaime Hokage is Wolverine x Hulk, fuck Susano'o.


----------



## Summers (May 31, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> *Edit;* Oh and, thanks for reading the OP guys, I'm glad this had a* great turnout* :33​



Tsunade threads mostly get that treatment. Its pretty funny to see, as she only has a few dedicated fans like yourself, and most people trash her. But make a thread about her and it goes 5 pages easy. I'm planning a Tsunade thread, its going to be epic, it will go 12 pages in 2 days.


----------



## WolfPrinceKiba (May 31, 2012)

I believe you are mistaken on where Tsunade is in this panel. She'd be in the middle of the group of Susanoo's farthest to the right(which would mean shes pitted against 10 Susanoo by herself), since you can see a dust cloud coming up from that area, which would be from the Susanoo she slammed onto the ground(and on the page where she slams it we see a dust cloud coming off of it). Onoki and the Raikage are with the group closest to Madara and Mei and Gaara the group farthest away from him(in both cases you can make out two small dots).

I'm a Tsunade supporter, though I don't really see any truly impressive Taijutsu skill or speed feats from her this chapter. What was impressive from a power standpoint is her actually taking down a Susanoo clone which none of the other Kages managed to do prior to Onoki destroying them all with the huge cube Jinton(which was due in part to Tsunade's chakra being transferred into him). Normally she would try to dodge much more, as medical ninjas are supposed to do but due to the difficulty of fighting 5-10 Susanoo's she needed to tank some damage to take them down(again, something the other Kages couldn't manage on their own).


----------



## Amatérasu’s Son (May 31, 2012)

I have a few things. He said GETTING sloppy.

This implies if not outright states that he fighting style started out clean and efficient and as the battle dragged on, and she took more hits, and became more tired that she was slipping up and her evasion and attacks were becoming more inefficient.

Which means that her performance was degrading.

So she was probably doing a lot better earlier on.

Tsunade is a taijutsu player in combat. And tank and smash is kind of her bread and butter. She's a beast.

I've always thought she was fast since this.
Chapter 459
Chapter 459

She popped Shizune and was out the door before she hit the floor...bakayaro, konoyaro

She doesn't really focus on offensive genjutsu or ninjutsu, so clearly her Taijutsu game is top notch. It's not even a little surprising. 

Anyone who doesn't believe look at the Sannin fight and how she beat the brakes off of Orochimaru...very entertaining that.


----------



## Butterfly (May 31, 2012)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> Eh, honestly I'd say her Taijutsu was sloppy given A's comment. He's the Taijutsu master there, he's the guy who knows what he's talking about in Taijutsu and given her comments I'm sure she sees that as well. She said she has to do it, I mean it's obvious really. I wasn't impressed with her Taijutsu, I was impressed with her strength which is what she needs to be commented about.
> 
> Outside of that it is what it is really.



A doesn't have knowledge on her Taijutsu, her chakra reserves, or her regeneration's limits. That's only his own insight given his taijutsu is heavily speed reliant. Tsunade, on the other hand, uses more endurance and letting the opponent hit her so she can hit back. Tsunade is just as a taijutsu master as A is (although, if it came down to a fight, A would most likely win due to his insane speed which pushes the limits of what Tsunade can endure). 

Tsunade, on the other hand, has full knowledge on her own abilities. A's comments are purely speculation, and Tsunade states that she's not getting sloppy. She's just fighting the only way she can at this point. Evading 5 Susanno-wielding Madara clones just isn't going to work for this woman, but, she's a fucking tank and can regenerate and has chakra to go all day. She'll be just fine if she lets herself get shanked her and there. That's what she means in her comments to A. Judging that she was sloppy off of A's short sided comment isn't a very good way to judge her, especially since he was caught because he let his down guard briefly _in the same chapter_




Namikaze Minato said:


> you call me post ignorant , yet you need reading comprehension.
> 
> Tsunade wasnt tired , because she gave Oonoki Chakra afterwards , if she was tired she couldnt have done that.
> 
> her fighting style is sloppy , that's all there is to it.


Her fighting style isn't sloppy though. I wonder why you seem to think that everyone else's opinions on Tsunade trump her own. Don't you think the person fighting with their own fighting style knows a little more about their fighting style than a spectator who didn't know some of her abilities until now? 

Tsunade wasn't tired, you're correct. A stated she'll become tired if she continues to fight like that. Yet, she can supply Onoki shit loads of chakra, which, funnily enough, _contradicts his point_. Sloppy isn't the right word to use here, perhaps reckless is a tad better. But, then again, if you have the chakra of a damn god and can regenerate from anything, I doubt Tsunade would care about these flesh wounds. 

A's comment is short sided. In the same chapter, he gets caught because he let down his guard. That's sloppy, yet no one actually says anything in this thread. People only seem to focus on A's statement despite the fact that he has little to no knowledge on Tsunade's fighting style. Why is he an accurate judge on what constitutes as a good fighting style when he has no idea of Tsunade's limits and is projecting his own limits onto her? 



Spanktastik said:


> He is a troll for stating Tsunade absolutely sucks at taijutsu? Every knuckle head (Naruto for example) can do what she can with enough raw strenght and durability. She is lacking the much needed refinement of a taijutsu expert.
> 
> She even admits she is fightning sloppy because its the only way for her to keep up. She is to weak to do anything else.
> 
> Madara's clones have no speed feats, Madara in Susaano has no speed feats, Susaano possibly even slows him down. Tsunade for all intends and purpose is slow compared to other kage lv fighters.



I'm just going to redirect you to  on why she's a brilliant CQC fighter. Please read above as to why A is wrong. 

Seriously, I don't know why or how people could legitimately use A's comment as benchmark as to what sloppy is when he rushes into fights head on, nearly kills Jinchurikis without prior thought  or consultation from the rest of the war committee, and, in this very chapter, lets himself get put into a genjutsu because he lets down his guard. It's like using Orochimaru to benchmark what's mentally healthy.


----------



## Gabe (May 31, 2012)

the sloopy part was probably that she allowed herself to get stabbed to many time that even if she was able to regenerate sh should not do that and then after she took off the sword blood came out of her mouth.


----------



## Godaime Kazekage (May 31, 2012)

Amat?rasu?s Son said:


> I have a few things. He said GETTING sloppy.
> 
> This implies if not outright states that he fighting style started out clean and efficient and as the battle dragged on, and she took more hits, and became more tired that she was slipping up and her evasion and attacks were becoming more inefficient.
> 
> ...



One, that "speed" feat was against Shizune of all people. That's hardly a feat. Two, orochimaru was gimped. The only thing I took away from the Sannin fight was Tsunade's incredible Sozo Saisei technique.


----------



## Butterfly (May 31, 2012)

Godaime Kazekage said:


> One, that "speed" feat was against Shizune of all people. That's hardly a feat. Two, orochimaru was gimped. The only thing I took away from the Sannin fight was Tsunade's incredible Sozo Saisei technique.



Do you think Tsunade was hampered in any way during that fight? Be honest now. 




Gabe said:


> the sloopy part was probably that she allowed herself to get stabbed to many time that even if she was able to regenerate sh should not do that and then after she took off the sword blood came out of her mouth.


I personally think it's an effective tactic. She can regenerate practically anything, has the chakra reserves of ninja christ himself, and is durable as hell. Why not use those tactics and make something of them? She was the only one to actually beat a Susanno clone, besides Onoki who did it with Tsunade's help and her blessed charka storage.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 31, 2012)

Why do these tsunade threads keep coming up, this chapters high light was about Madara kicking ass, and partially sasuke crying about nii-san going away.

Also tsunade is slow relative to people in her own tier, she would blitz the crap out of fodders as they are slow fodder. Lastly her fighting style is simple and easy to predict not really tai-jutsu like gai, just punch, kick, tank whatever my opponent just hit me with rinse and repeat intil opponent or me is dead.


----------



## WolfPrinceKiba (May 31, 2012)

Godaime Kazekage said:


> One, that "speed" feat was against Shizune of all people. That's hardly a feat. Two, orochimaru was gimped. The only thing I took away from the Sannin fight was Tsunade's incredible Sozo Saisei technique.


Shizune is a high-ranking Jonin, someone who should be around Asuma/Kurenai's level. So yes its a fairly good speed feat and it shows Tsunade has above average speed. It doesn't put her up there with people like Kakashi or Sasuke and definitely not Raikage but she isn't slow. Madara said "Shes slower than the Raikage." not "Shes slow." or "Shes significantly slower.". Her speed is high enough for her to be competitive in a high tier battle and thats what matters.


----------



## αce (May 31, 2012)

Tsunade's stronger than the Raikage at this point.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 31, 2012)

Godaime Kazekage said:


> Tsunade fans just accept that your favorite character sucks at just about everything but support. She is the BEST support you're going to get and that's not a bad thing. Accept it and stop trying to validate your fanaticism each time she gets a panel.



Tsunade led the fight for several chapters, both she and Madara accepted that she was more than just a support ninja, and that she wasn't weak in offense, like he had once thought.



summers said:


> Tsunade threads mostly get that treatment. Its pretty funny to see, as she only has a few dedicated fans like yourself, and most people trash her. But make a thread about her and it goes 5 pages easy. I'm planning a Tsunade thread, its going to be epic, it will go 12 pages in 2 days.





I'll look forward to it 



WolfPrinceKiba said:


> I believe you are mistaken on where Tsunade is in this panel. She'd be in the middle of the group of Susanoo's farthest to the right(which would mean shes pitted against 10 Susanoo by herself), since you can see a dust cloud coming up from that area, which would be from the Susanoo she slammed onto the ground(and on the page where she slams it we see a dust cloud coming off of it). Onoki and the Raikage are with the group closest to Madara and Mei and Gaara the group farthest away from him(in both cases you can make out two small dots).



Ah, I was on the wrong side. Thanks for clarifying that, then.



> I'm a Tsunade supporter, though I don't really see any truly impressive Taijutsu skill or speed feats from her this chapter. What was impressive from a power standpoint is her actually taking down a Susanoo clone which none of the other Kages managed to do prior to Onoki destroying them all with the huge cube Jinton(which was due in part to Tsunade's chakra being transferred into him). Normally she would try to dodge much more, as medical ninjas are supposed to do but due to the difficulty of fighting 5-10 Susanoo's she needed to tank some damage to take them down(again, something the other Kages couldn't manage on their own).



Utilising her taijutsu style to the point that she can stand toe to toe with 5 clones, showed me that she had a lot of skill in that area. 

Blitzing a Madara clone isn't an _incredibly_ impressive feat, to put her on Raikage level speed. But it's still a great feat, and it reaffirms the point that while she isn't a speed beast, she isn't slow, which you said yourself:



WolfPrinceKiba said:


> Shizune is a high-ranking Jonin, someone who should be around Asuma/Kurenai's level. So yes its a fairly good speed feat and it shows Tsunade has above average speed. It doesn't put her up there with people like Kakashi or Sasuke and definitely not Raikage but she isn't slow. Madara said "Shes slower than the Raikage." not "Shes slow." or "Shes significantly slower.". Her speed is high enough for her to be competitive in a high tier battle and thats what matters.



And I wholeheartedly agree with.​


----------



## Ranma Saotome (May 31, 2012)

Just one. Just use _one_ powerful Ninjutsu technique, Tsunade. I'd laugh so hard.


----------



## Rios (May 31, 2012)

I am more interested in her supporting powers. Hope she shows more. There is a spot left for a great team tank.


----------



## Remsengan (May 31, 2012)

Winged Blade said:


> Just one. Just use _one_ powerful Ninjutsu technique, Tsunade. I'd laugh so hard.



Why would she do that?  Tsunade's style of Taijutsu is invaluable to this fight because Madara can't use the Preta Realm to absorb her attacks.


It strike's me hilarious that Ai said she was "getting sloppy".  Trolls use this comment against her, which is ironic because he was caught and genjutsu'd shortly after.  It's especially funny coming from the guy who let himself be set on fire with an non-extinguishable flame when he doesn't have nearly the endurance/regen of the person he's commenting on.

Haters mock her for her simplistic style of combat, which is stupid because it's been getting the job done against one of the strongest characters in the manga.  So far Tsunade has:

1.  Tanked the most hits
2.  Landed the most hits
3.  Has healed/supported the team the most.

The only exception is maybe Oonoki.  But she far outshines Ai, Gaara and Mei.  She's the only one on panel who was fending of 5 Susano'o by herself.

In addition, haters attempts to downplay her regen is getting ridiculous.  Attempts to diminish her durability based on how regen would theoretically effect normal human anatomy simply doesn't apply to Tsunade.  She is able to live, fight and regenerate through attacks that should cause nerve damage.  Here is an example where her spinal cord should be severed.  Yet, she still's smashing through Susano'o like a Bauss . 

Her durability is on par with Whitebeard from One Piece, imo.


----------



## Namikaze Minato (May 31, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> There's far too many comments here for me to be able to cover _all of them_. So, I suppose I'll just make a few brief points, and anyone who disagrees can quote them. Unless you're a troll
> 
> Clones are generally weaker than their originals. And I think that means in speed as well, hence why Naruto landed a hit on Itachi by himself [ 1 ], and Anko could land a hit on Orochimaru. [ 1 ]
> 
> ...



That's the thing , you and fans generally make outlandish wrong points that end up hurting the character.

i'll provide few examples,

 1- you said and i quote "Tsunade is great at evasion and following attack patterns" , when she got hit a lot from Madara , Kabuto , was about to be hit by Naruto's Rasengan in Part 1 , this contradicts what you're saying , and if she can follow attack pattern , she wouldnt have fallen for that trap.

2- , you say "She defeated a Madara clone , and that's a great feat" , No it's not a great feat , Clones are either used for deception , or because the opponent are beneath them that fighting with their real bodies is overkill.

Jiraiya used Bunshins to train Nagato and Konan and Yahiko , why? because if he fought for real in his real body , it wouldnt be called training anymore , it'd be murder.

as for deception , high level opponent recognize bunshins , Minato did in Kakashi Gaiden , Itachi noticed Kakashi's bunshin .........etc.

so a Kage  , not to mention Hokage should be able to do the same.

so no it's not a great feat , nothing great about it since she was tricked by the Bunshin and Madara's didnt see her worthy to fight his real body.

3- this is a quote from Butterfly Aka Muffinssi , a known Tsunade fan , about what she thinks the chapter informed us about Tsunade , 





			
				Butterfly said:
			
		

> I liked it! It shows that Tsunade can most likely survive being chopped in half.





			
				Butterfly said:
			
		

> Tsunade doesn't need to fight carefully and she has the chakra to go on for years.



now those two quotes couldnt be more wrong and more outlandish that any rational member will never believe.

lets take the first quote , nobody can survive being chopped in half other than Zetsu , because of his weird anatomy.

and 2nd quote , nobody have the chakra to go for years other than Bijuus , Kisame and Tsunade both ran out of Chakra in a fight that took less than a day  , and Kabuto made her tired by taking a pill and it took less than a day *without her fighting carefully.*.

hopefully after this post you'll change your stance and look at this chapter more logically.


----------



## Ranma Saotome (May 31, 2012)

Remsengan said:


> Why would she do that?  Tsunade's style of Taijutsu is invaluable to this fight because Madara can't use the Preta Realm to absorb her attacks.
> 
> 
> It strike's me hilarious that Ai said she was "getting sloppy".  Trolls use this comment against her, which is ironic because he was caught and genjutsu'd shortly after.  It's especially funny coming from the guy who let himself be set on fire with an non-extinguishable flame when he doesn't have nearly the endurance/regen of the person he's commenting on.
> ...



Cos, I really think that's the only way the mockery will cool off. I wouldn't even care if people viewed it as an asspull. I'm not even a Tsunade fan, persay, but when I see a Sannin and Hokage being so underrated that it's as if her combat skill is on par with Sakura it's a little outrageous.

_I_ know how good she's doing, in comparison to the other Kage. I know that the only one out-shining her so far is Onoki. The best the Raikage can do is dodge. At least she's actually quick and strong enough to floor one of her 5, though she's sustaining injuries in the process. With swords sticking out of her no less. I guess she'd need to be flooring Susanoo wielders with a blade sticking out of her head for someone to say, "Hm, she's pretty impressive."

I personally think a combination of Wolvie like regen and Hulk-esque strength is a pretty impressive combination. I also think she has good evasion, but I think it's been off paneled. _Getting_ sloppy implies she's only now started to get reckless and to take a blow to give one.


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 31, 2012)

I think that at this point we can all agree that Tsunade fighting style is very simple. Activate regeneration and attack the enemy head on. There is no strategy or skill involved. Tsunade has no options but to fight this way, she is too slow to fight in any other fashion. Furthermore, this fighting style is very sloppy as it leaves her completely open to counterattacks.


----------



## Ranma Saotome (May 31, 2012)

TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> I think that at this point we can all agree that Tsunade fighting style is very simple. Activate regeneration and attack the enemy head on. There is no strategy or skill involved. Tsunade has no options but to fight this way, she is too slow to fight in any other fashion. Furthermore, this fighting style is very sloppy as it leaves her completely open to counterattacks.



Yeah, I think it's pretty cut and dry too. It works for her, though. No one can shrug off the kind of damage she is and continue to press on, kicking ass and taking names. It's a very brawler-esque fighting style, but man, she _floored a Susanoo_. I've never seen anyone else in the manga literally thrash Susanoo around. With two _giant_ swords stabbed clean through her. People would be flipping out if it was Gai that just floored a Susanoo shrouded Uchiha.


----------



## principito (May 31, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> *Tsunade led the fight for several chapters*, both she and Madara accepted that she was more than just a support ninja, and that she wasn't weak in offense, like he had once thought.
> 
> Utilising her taijutsu style to the point that she can stand toe to toe with 5 clones, showed me that she had a lot of skill in that area.
> 
> ...



If you stop the wanking and start typing objective down-to-earth statements MAYBe more people would agree with you.

Tsunade has never lead the fight. She attacked Madara head first because she had her secret regenerative jutsus and that led nowhere.... she effectively caused zero damage on the opponent.... not because he's immortal, but because she didn't acomplish anything.

She has not stand toe to toe with clones.... what we've seen this chapter is kages being hit by susano's and Tsunade punching ONE susano'o from behind. You are assuming there were four others around her but one lese could assume she punched a susano'o that was facing somebody else and she just caught it offward from behind. And if anything... the only kage SHOWN dealing with more than one Madara at a time is Gaara. The rest are all in terrible conditions.

And if there is one thing Tsunade will NEVER do is blitz. like i said... the clone she attacked was clearly from behind.

Yes, its an impressive feat that her being a MEDIC is standing her own ground in her own way with pure fighters like Onoki and Ei. How does she do that? well she has to absorb punches and heal herself (which other kages cant afford to do) in order to get close to the enemy to use her punches (which other kages dont NEED to do). 

Everything else is just delusional


----------



## Jad (May 31, 2012)

Remsengan said:


> Here is an example where her spinal cord should be severed.  Yet, she still's smashing through Susano'o like a Bauss .
> 
> Her durability is on par with Whitebeard from One Piece, imo.



Don't compare her durability to Whitebeard. I remember, not sure if it was just anime, but Whitebeard was  "stabbed 276 times, shot 562 times, and hit by 46 cannon balls".

Plus re-look at the scan, the second panel shows the blades missing her spinal cord.


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 31, 2012)

Winged Blade said:


> Yeah, I think it's pretty cut and dry too. It works for her, though. No one can shrug off the kind of damage she is and continue to press on, kicking ass and taking names. It's a very brawler-esque fighting style, but man, she _floored a Susanoo_. I've never seen anyone else in the manga literally thrash Susanoo around. With two _giant_ swords stabbed clean through her. People would be flipping out if it was Gai that just floored a Susanoo shrouded Uchiha.



It's not very impressive since it didn't appear to do any damage to the Susano. On top of that Onoki immobilized all 5 Susano he was facing.


----------



## Ranma Saotome (May 31, 2012)

TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> It's not very impressive since it didn't appear to do any damage to the Susano. On top of that Onoki immobilized all 5 Susano he was facing.



Yeah, but consider the reaction if Gai were to run up, jump kick, and floor one of the Susanoo. Come on man. You know people would be flipping out. Also, it's kind of unfair to compare her to Onoki, who has what is quite possibly thee if not one of the most destructive jutsu in the manga _and_ can fly. On principle he's hard to hit and can mess you up. It's more fair to compare how she's doing to the other Kage. They weren't shown to have taken down a single Susanoo, rather, they were at their mercy outside of A.. who could really only dodge at this point. How could _any_ of them have won if Onoki hadn't been around for morale and sheer damage? It's fair to say she's done more to her Susanoo offensively than the others.


----------



## harurisu (May 31, 2012)

principito said:


> Yes, its an impressive feat that her being a MEDIC is standing her own ground in her own way with pure fighters like Onoki and Ei. How does she do that? well she has to absorb punches and heal herself (which other kages cant afford to do) in order to get close to the enemy to use her punches *(which other kages dont NEED to do). *
> 
> Everything else is just delusional



And that's why most of them aren't doing any damages on his clones/Susanoo, cause the only thing that works on him are PHYSICAL attacks.


----------



## Soul (May 31, 2012)

Tsunade's style in this match relies on her "immortality".
If anything, she showed that she fights with less finesse in this chapter.


----------



## BlinkST (May 31, 2012)

Winged Blade said:


> Yeah, but consider the reaction if Gai were to run up, jump kick, and floor one of the Susanoo. Come on man. You know people would be flipping out.


Me personally? I wouldn't be impressed at all since the Susanoo needs to be destroyed in order to get to the person inside--the Madara clone. Just knocking one over [Like Tsunade did] or knocking it around [Like Raikage did] isn't going to do much if the person inside is totally unharmed.


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 31, 2012)

Winged Blade said:


> Yeah, but consider the reaction if Gai were to run up, jump kick, and floor one of the Susanoo. Come on man. You know people would be flipping out. Also, it's kind of unfair to compare her to Onoki, who has what is quite possibly thee if not one of the most destructive jutsu in the manga _and_ can fly. On principle he's hard to hit and can mess you up. It's more fair to compare how she's doing to the other Kage. They weren't shown to have taken down a single Susanoo, rather, they were at their mercy outside of A.. who could really only dodge at this point. How could _any_ of them have won if Onoki hadn't been around for morale and sheer damage? It's fair to say she's done more to her Susanoo offensively than the others.



But her attacking the Susano amounts to nothing. She didn't so much as damage it. She is being sloppy and stupid by making these futile attacks. From what we saw all of the Kages besides Onoki were in the same position. 

1. Mei got hit. (On her knees)
2. Gaara tried to help Mei and got hit. (On his knees)
3. Tsunade was able to hit a Susano but got impaled twice in the process. (On her knees)
4. Ei got distracted by Tsunade and was hit with a genjutsu. (on his knees)

The obvious pattern here is that the men were distracted by the failure of the women and ended up being hit themselves. But the point is that they were all in the same position. All on their knees without having taken out a single Susano.


----------



## Ranma Saotome (May 31, 2012)

Blinx-182 said:


> Me personally? I wouldn't be impressed at all since the Susanoo needs to be destroyed in order to get to the person inside--the Madara clone. Just knocking one over [Like Tsunade did] or knocking it around [Like Raikage did] isn't going to do much if the person inside is totally unharmed.



Yeah, it's a long way from defeating one, but toppling Susanoo.. quite possibly the strongest defensive jutsu in the manga, is still impressive. It's hard enough to crack that sucker or make a budge/dent into it. Destroying it at this point in the transformation would take a ridiculous amount of destruction.. the likes of something like Kirin or Jinton can dish out. I still feel like if Gai replicated the feat with a kick people would be flipping out.



TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> But her attacking the Susano amounts to nothing. She didn't so much as damage it. She is being sloppy and stupid by making these futile attacks. From what we saw all of the Kages besides Onoki were in the same position.
> 
> 1. Mei got hit. (On her knees)
> 2. Gaara tried to help Mei and got hit. (On his knees)
> ...



She didn't damage it, but just consider, she had to do _something_. Even if it didn't amount to much, she had to fight back at least. That's pretty much all we can gauge it on. How well they did fighting back. No one was literally_ destroying_ those babies but Onoki, which Tsunade assisted with.

The last part.. well.. I don't know man. Wouldn't it be more fair to blame the men? It's not her fault Raikage was too busy watching them breasts wobble. He didn't bat an eyelash at Gaara or Mei's plight.  You know it's cos he wants her.


----------



## Butterfly (May 31, 2012)

Namikaze Minato said:


> That's the thing , you and fans generally make outlandish wrong points that end up hurting the character.
> 
> i'll provide few examples,
> 
> 1- you said and i quote "Tsunade is great at evasion and following attack patterns" , when she got hit a lot from Madara , Kabuto , was about to be hit by Naruto's Rasengan in Part 1 , this contradicts what you're saying , and if she can follow attack pattern , she wouldnt have fallen for that trap.


She didn't get hit a lot from Madara. Madara used a clone that only he could see through in the pass in order to land a hit. Kabuto's fluky shot was tackled into when he had to exhaust Tsunade first. And, as for Naruto's rasengan, she completely obliterated the path in front of him and stopped him from using it. You don't even read the manga if you think Naruto counts as an example when she trounced him. 




> 2- , you say "She defeated a Madara clone , and that's a great feat" , No it's not a great feat , Clones are either used for deception , or because the opponent are beneath them that fighting with their real bodies is overkill.


Are you stating that Madara clones are weak and have nothing praise worthy in value? 



> as for deception , high level opponent recognize bunshins , Minato did in Kakashi Gaiden , Itachi noticed Kakashi's bunshin .........etc.


The Sharingan is needed to see through this type of clone. Minato and the other situations aren't relevant. Their clones aren't as deceptive as this. 



> so no it's not a great feat , nothing great about it since she was tricked by the Bunshin and Madara's didnt see her worthy to fight his real body.


Madara's arrogant as hell. Many opponents have fought with clones. It isn't a denomination of how weak they are. In fact, it's the inverse. Madara thinks he's so above it all that he can take them out with this Susanno, or a clone, or whatever, yet the kages are still alive and standing. So far, his attempts to get rid of them have utterly failed and Madara saw her worthy enough to escape her attack by replacing himself with a clone and stabbing her through the stomach before hitting her in the head. I'd state that's a statement on how much he views her as a threat (although, he already views her as a threat with her medical ninjutsu).




> 3- this is a quote from Butterfly Aka Muffinssi , a known Tsunade fan , about what she thinks the chapter informed us about Tsunade ,


I'm a guy tyvm Tsunade hater  



> now those two quotes couldnt be more wrong and more outlandish that any rational member will never believe.
> 
> lets take the first quote , nobody can survive being chopped in half other than Zetsu , because of his weird anatomy.


Orochimaru was decapitated on panel and survived  Naruto bodies aren't equivalent to real bodies. And, if Orochimaru was envious of tsunade's ability to regenerate, there's reason to believe she can do it too. 

But, thank you for calling me irrational. Like your blind hateboner for Tsunade is much better. 



> and 2nd quote , nobody have the chakra to go for years other than Bijuus , Kisame and Tsunade both ran out of Chakra in a fight that took less than a day  , and Kabuto made her tired by taking a pill and it took less than a day *without her fighting carefully.*.


Tsunade was twenty years out of practice. Are you really going to take past rusty feats over what we see now? Even though she healed a village twice over? And, besides, now she's using both of her sources at the same time. She only used one chakra source against Kabuto. 



> hopefully after this post you'll change your stance and look at this chapter more logically.


Well, uh, if rationality involves taking part one rusty feats then i'll stay irrational thank you 




TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> I think that at this point we can all agree that Tsunade fighting style is very simple. Activate regeneration and attack the enemy head on. There is no strategy or skill involved. Tsunade has no options but to fight this way, she is too slow to fight in any other fashion. Furthermore, this fighting style is very sloppy as it leaves her completely open to counterattacks.


It's not that simple, actually. Read  to see why. Tsunade is quite obviously skilled in taijustu and she usually doesn't activate regeneration from the get go. She can afford to take a variety of hits in the manga, as it demonstrates she's exceptionally durable. There is some level of skill and strategy involved in how she normally fights, because, how else is she going to tag quicker opponents? 




principito said:


> If you stop the wanking and start typing objective down-to-earth statements *MAYBe *more people would agree with you.


I love how to admit that there's a bias against Tsunade on these forums. 



> Tsunade has never lead the fight. She attacked Madara head first because she had her secret regenerative jutsus and that led nowhere.... she effectively caused zero damage on the opponent.... not because he's immortal, but because she didn't acomplish anything.





> Yes, its an impressive feat that her being a MEDIC is standing her own ground in her own way with pure fighters like Onoki and Ei. How does she do that? well she has to absorb punches and heal herself (which other kages cant afford to do) in order to get close to the enemy to use her punches (which other kages dont NEED to do).


The other kages don't need to do it because they can't do it. I don't get it. Other kages don't land hits, but that's okay! Tsunade lands hits using her skills and it's just because of that foolish regeneration and that still means she's weak! Why doesn't anyone just blame the Uchiha and all of their amazing feats because it's just the sharingan and if they use it they're weak! Does telegrams really have something against Ninja using skill they invented? Oh, wait, this is Tsunade. 



Soul said:


> Tsunade's style in this match relies on her "immortality".
> If anything, she showed that she fights with less finesse in this chapter.



I disagree with this. As pointed out above, this is only strategy she can afford to use against Madara and 25 clones with large pointy swords. It's the only thing that's working. She has the chakra reserves, the ability to regenerate, etc. We already know she's still incredibly skilled taijutsu as evidenced in the link I posted above. Besides, she gets more durability feats too. I can't name many characters that can fight with two swords inside her. Or anyone that can replenish stamina after regenerating from all of these wounds.




Godaime Kazekage said:


> This is why women should be in the kitchen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's statements like these that make sexism persist against women. Not cool.


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 31, 2012)

Winged Blade said:


> She didn't damage it, but just consider, she had to do _something_. Even if it didn't amount to much, she had to fight back at least. That's pretty much all we can gauge it on. How well they did fighting back. No one was literally_ destroying_ those babies but Onoki, which Tsunade assisted with.
> 
> The last part.. well.. I don't know man. Wouldn't it be more fair to blame the men. It's not her fault Raikage was too busy watching them breasts wobble. He didn't bat an eyelash at Gaara or Mei's plight.  You know it's cos he wants her.



The problem I have with her doing something is that it amounts to nothing. She could have just as easily ran in one direction and wasted less chakra. She isn't thinking ahead and thus the Kages are being hurt as a group.


----------



## Namikaze Minato (May 31, 2012)

Butterfly AKA Muffinssi ,

why did you even attempt to explain what you said in those two quotes?

so if Orochimaru was envious it means Tsunade can regenerate if her head is cut into two pieces  , she can regenerate her brain?

Orochimaru also was envious of Sasuke powers and thought he can defeat Itachi , but could Sasuke do it?

No , so you bringing Orochimaru as evidence is not valid.

and about Tsunade lasting fighting for years Lol , ok lets take part 2 feats , she got tired quickly against Madara , in 1 day , she didnt even last a week , not to mention *YEARS!* lol.

and no Sharingan is not required just cuz Madara said so , the Shinobi world have evolved since Madara died , we saw new ways of detecting clones , like the way Minato used with his finger.


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 31, 2012)

Butterfly said:


> It's not that simple, actually. Read  to see why. Tsunade is quite obviously skilled in taijustu and she usually doesn't activate regeneration from the get go. She can afford to take a variety of hits in the manga, as it demonstrates she's exceptionally durable. There is some level of skill and strategy involved in how she normally fights, because, how else is she going to tag quicker opponents?



If she is skilled in Taijutsu than she hides it extremely well. Her current fighting style is sloppy, can we agree on that?


----------



## BlinkST (May 31, 2012)

Winged Blade said:


> Yeah, it's a long way from defeating one, but toppling Susanoo.. quite possibly the strongest defensive jutsu in the manga, is still impressive.


I don't know what your standards are, but I guess to me that's not impressive. It's not like attacking a biju, in which case you'd actually end up causing physical harm to the biju and deter it. It's a Susanoo. She doesn't seem to have laid any plan to get to the users themselves, so they'll always keep coming and countering her attacks. 

That makes as much progress as the Raikage using Raiger bomb on Susanoo, knowing it'd never work. 



Winged Blade said:


> I still feel like if Gai replicated the feat with a kick people would be flipping out.


Are you basically saying Tsunade fans are "justified" because another fan base would be under a similar delusion?


----------



## Ranma Saotome (May 31, 2012)

TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> The problem I have with her doing something is that it amounts to nothing. She could have just as easily ran in one direction and wasted less chakra. She isn't thinking ahead and thus the Kages are being hurt as a group.





Come on man. The world is counting on her and she's gonna run? She'd never live that down. The other Kage weren't running.

On a serious note, I see your point. In the long run it was futile. I'm not arguing against that though. I'm gauging how well they at least fought back against the clones. I really think the only Kage that can afford to use that strategy and bide their time like that is the Raikage. If she ran she would eventually be caught by a jutsu from Madara himself or a clone, not to mention she'd get more ridicule. I do think that regrouping and relying on teamwork is something one of them should've thought of sooner than later.

The thing I'm saying is if we erase destroying the actual clone and their Susanoo from the equation, flooring them is far better than laying there helplessly while waiting to die, and is a step above merely dodging. Mei couldn't do crap. Gaara could at least block and hold them off, but got overwhelmed. Raikage was dodging, so it's hard for me to say he was doing worse, but since Tsunade can heal the damage she sustains I'd count them as equal. No one but Onoki was gonna destroy Susanoo, but there are differing levels of how well they were able to fight back against Susanoo amongst each other. She could at least momentarily disable/halt them with what she was doing. It's a far cry from victory, but it's a better performance than some of the others.



Blinx-182 said:


> I don't know what your standards are, but I guess to me that's not impressive. It's not like attacking a biju, in which case you'd actually end up causing physical harm to the biju and deter it. It's a Susanoo. She doesn't seem to have laid any plan to get to the users themselves, so they'll always keep coming and countering her attacks.
> 
> That makes as much progress as the Raikage using Raiger bomb on Susanoo, knowing it'd never work.
> 
> ...



They'll keep coming back, but I'm saying it's difficult to do much of anything to Susanoo at all. It's hard to crack it. Dent it. Hell, it's hard to even make it budge. If something is that tough and stationary, flooring Susanoo at least allows for a chance to do something. Imagine punching Sasuke's Susanoo, or hitting it so hard it drops it's bow? 

Unsuccessful at stopping it for sure, but it's still a method of fighting back. It slows down their progress at least. Much like Tsunade, when all you can do is Taijutsu, I suppose that's what you fight with. The only difference is, Tsunade can heal her injuries.. Raikage is now sporting his career as The Crippled Kage.

Nah, not exactly justified, I just think that there's a clear double standard _just_ because it's Tsunade. People cheer over the smallest things another Shinobi does, even if it's a far cry from winning a battle. Any new speed, strength, stamina, or whatever feat a shinobi displays.. especially when it is a new 'record' or otherwise undone. It is praised by their fanbase and goes mostly unbashed. She just toppled Susanoo. No, it's not destroying it, but usually a never before done feat is generally met with praise and is accepted as a 'whatever, good job I guess' by non fans. I'm saying if Kakashi drop kicked and floored Susanoo when Sasuke's was about to fire it's arrow, would it be met with as much indifference or scorn?


----------



## Maerala (May 31, 2012)

Winged Blade said:


> Come on man. The world is counting on her and she's gonna run? She'd never live that down. The other Kage weren't running.



These are the same people that argue she should have betrayed Naruto's location to Pain when soldiers were dying that very second trying to keep that information secret.


----------



## Frawstbite (May 31, 2012)

TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> If she is skilled in Taijutsu than she hides it extremely well. Her current fighting style is sloppy, can we agree on that?



If people are actually arguing that her fighting style centers around her juggernauting through fatal blows and shortening her lifespan, no matter how minimal, then that is by default some sloppy fighting. But it's necessary, effective, sloppiness. It's just an inconsistent style, as she would never do that in every fight, and in some instances it could be over for her before she gets to that point.


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 31, 2012)

Winged Blade said:


> Come on man. The world is counting on her and she's gonna run? She'd never live that down. The other Kage weren't running.



Jiraiya ran away from Pain. Pain ran away from kn6. There is nothing wrong with running. 



> On a serious note, I see your point. In the long run it was futile. I'm not arguing against that though. I'm gauging how well they at least fought back against the clones. I really think the only Kage that can afford to use that strategy and bide their time like that is the Raikage. If she ran she would eventually be caught by a jutsu from Madara himself or a clone, not to mention she'd get more ridicule. I do think that regrouping and relying on teamwork is something one of them should've thought of sooner than later.



I'm not saying she runs away from the battlefield completely. I'm suggesting that she runs from the clones. Just like the way Kabuto ran from her. It takes a lot more energy to maintain 5 Susanos than it takes to run. 



> The thing I'm saying is if we erase destroying the actual clone and their Susanoo from the equation, flooring them is far better than laying there helplessly while waiting to die, and is a step above merely dodging. Mei couldn't do crap. Gaara could at least block and hold them off, but got overwhelmed. Raikage was dodging, so it's hard for me to say he was doing worse, but since Tsunade can heal the damage she sustains I'd count them as equal. No one but Onoki was gonna destroy Susanoo, but there are differing levels of how well they were able to fight back against Susanoo amongst each other. She could at least momentarily disable/halt them with what she was doing. It's a far cry from victory, but it's a better performance than some of the others.



Sure if we ignore the fact that fighting back was completely futile than Tsunade actually accomplished something. But it was completely futile and resulted in her taking more damage than the wood clone.


----------



## Ranma Saotome (May 31, 2012)

TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> Jiraiya ran away from Pain. Pain ran away from kn6. There is nothing wrong with running.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know, but to be fair you have to consider the circumstances. They were totally out numbered, 5 to 1 each. Madara himself is standing on high while looking down on them, ready to unleash whatever hell he might merit. I feel Tsunade is quick, at least by shinobi fighter/brawler standards, but readily admit she's no Raikage. If she tried that strategy I can't help but feel like she'd get fucked up by some random surprise attack from Madara himself for such cowardice.

Yeah but to be fair, everyone else was fighting back, and regen is her thing. She can afford to take hits, whereas, the others can't. Unless they intend to become a burden for Tsunade, and force her break her concentration and focus on healing them. Mei blocked with her.. well, nevermind, Gaara protected her. Gaara used his sand. Raikage used his speed. Tsunade used her healing/regen. I know getting damaged looks sloppy, but when you're able to regenerate I guess you just shrug off damage. I liken it to how Orochimaru is, where he just laughs off being hit until he knows he's dealing with some life threatening damage.



Godaime Hokage said:


> These are the same people that argue she should have betrayed Naruto's location to Pain when soldiers were dying that very second trying to keep that information secret.



Felt the need to answer this, though I don't wanna derail the topic of the thread. Anyone that thinks that Tsunade or any other Kage with a speck of moral fiber would do such a thing has to be trolling. Naruto coming to help Konoha is far different than throwing him to the wolves. She never said anything about Naruto soloing, that was his personal choice.


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 31, 2012)

Winged Blade said:


> I know, but to be fair you have to consider the circumstances. They were totally out numbered, 5 to 1 each. Madara himself is standing on high while looking down on them, ready to unleash whatever hell he might merit. I feel Tsunade is quick, at least by shinobi fighter/brawler standards, but readily admit she's no Raikage. If she tried that strategy I can't help but feel like she'd get fucked up by some random surprise attack from Madara himself for such cowardice.
> 
> Yeah but to be fair, everyone else was fighting back, and regen is her thing. She can afford to take hits, whereas, the others can't. Unless they intend to become a burden for Tsunade, and force her break her intention and focus on healing them. Mei blocked with her.. well, nevermind, Gaara protected her. Gaara used his sand. Raikage used his speed. Tsunade used her healing/regen. I know getting damaged looks sloppy, but when you're able to regenerate I guess you just shrug off damage. I liken it to how Orochimaru is, where he just laughs off being hit until he knows he's dealing with some life threatening damage.



She should have been healing them a long time ago, if she had been healing Onoki from the start then the clones wouldn't have been such a huge problem. She needs to understand that the best thing she can do is provide support. As a fighter she isn't on par with any of the other Kages, she is simply too slow.


----------



## Ranma Saotome (May 31, 2012)

TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> She should have been healing them a long time ago, if she had been healing Onoki from the start then the clones wouldn't have been such a huge problem. She needs to understand that the best thing she can do is provide support. As a fighter she isn't on par with any of the other Kages, she is simply too slow.



I agree, but I don't think we can pin the lack of teamwork on Tsunade's shoulders alone. Running around healing would've just prolonged the inevitable. They were all stubbornly trying to solo at that point. Not even Onoki with healing would take his down.

2 See? 25 still there.

It took them working together to take out the clones, which I do credit Onoki with. He gave the morale speech, and Tsunade pumped him full of chakra, which enabled him to wipe the clones out. It was a group effort they should've went with earlier on, though, IMO. It's silly to fight alone when you've got a group that remedies everyone's weaknesses so well.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (May 31, 2012)

So now people are saying Tsunade can regenerate her head 


Tsunade fans


----------



## Jad (May 31, 2012)

Personally, I wouldn't call her a Taijutsu master, only Gai and Rock Lee hold those titles (since Kishimoto explicitly states it in their bio's), and Neji (since he has mastered and surpassed the Hyuuga clan).

She is not bad anyways, I would like to see more grapple techniques from her though. She should have been lifting up those Sasunoos and using them as a bat. Now that would have been something funny and impressive.


----------



## Ranma Saotome (May 31, 2012)

Jad said:


> Personally, I wouldn't call her a Taijutsu master, only Gai and Rock Lee hold those titles (since Kishimoto explicitly states it in their bio's), and Neji (since he has mastered and surpassed the Hyuuga clan).
> 
> She is not bad though, I would like to see more grapple techniques from her though. She should have been lifting up those Sasunoos and using them as a bat. Now that would have been something funny and impressive.





Or give them a little of the treatment Hulk gave Loki.


----------



## Rios (May 31, 2012)

It does require more skill than striking though.


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 31, 2012)

Winged Blade said:


> I agree, but I don't think we can pin the lack of teamwork on Tsunade's shoulders alone. Running around healing would've just prolonged the inevitable. They were all stubbornly trying to solo at that point. Not even Onoki with healing would take his down.
> 
> was "Whole", not just hitting a bit of it. See? 25 still there.
> 
> It took them working together to take out the clones, which I do credit Onoki with. He gave the morale speech, and Tsunade pumped him full of chakra, which enabled him to wipe the clones out. It was a group effort they should've went with earlier on, though, IMO. It's silly to fight alone when you've got a group that remedies everyone's weaknesses so well.



I'm saying that if Tsunade acted like a chakra battery earlier Onoki could have taken out the clones earlier. That's a reasonable thing to say isn't it?

If the other Kages had the ability to act as chakra batteries I would blame them for not doing it earlier too, but they don't have that ability as far as I know.


----------



## Jad (May 31, 2012)

Winged Blade said:


> Or give them a little of the treatment Hulk gave Loki.



Kishi should have watched Avengers to get an idea really 

I would have loved Tsunade giving the Sasunoo some "Bam-Bam" (Flintstones) treatment.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 31, 2012)

Godaime Hokage said:


> These are the same people that argue she should have betrayed Naruto's location to Pain when soldiers were dying that very second trying to keep that information secret.



And also the people who argue that Tsunade is inferior to Shino, that children defeat Jiraiya clones, and that Onoki is breezing through the Kage fight effortlessly.



Soul said:


> Tsunade's style in this match relies on her "immortality".
> If anything, she showed that she fights with less finesse in this chapter.



I disagree [obviously]. Using medical ninjutsu to allow her to tank attacks is no different than Ei using his Raiton no Yoroi to increase his reflexes. Both are using ninjutsu to increase their taijutsu capabilities, but I still think they both have a lot of ' finesse ' , they just have very different styles. What Ei can do Tsunade can't, and what Tsunade can do Ei can't. 



principito said:


> If you stop the wanking and start typing objective down-to-earth statements MAYBe more people would agree with you.
> 
> Tsunade has never lead the fight. She attacked Madara head first because she had her secret regenerative jutsus and that led nowhere.... she effectively caused zero damage on the opponent.... not because he's immortal, but because she didn't acomplish anything.



What the hell 

Tsunade did lead the fight for a while. She headed in _by herself_, connected two hits, blew open Madara's Susano'o, and allowed the other Kages the opportunity to seal him. She didn't actually inflict any damage, but she came a lot closer than any of the other Kage did.



> She has not stand toe to toe with clones.... what we've seen this chapter is kages being hit by susano's and Tsunade punching ONE susano'o from behind. You are assuming there were four others around her but one lese could assume she punched a susano'o that was facing somebody else and she just caught it offward from behind. And if anything... the only kage SHOWN dealing with more than one Madara at a time is Gaara. The rest are all in terrible conditions.



You evidently did not read the OP, because I addressed these points.



> And if there is one thing Tsunade will NEVER do is blitz. like i said... the clone she attacked was clearly from behind.



Again, this was addressed in the OP, which you haven't read. Evidently.



> Yes, its an impressive feat that her being a MEDIC is standing her own ground in her own way with pure fighters like Onoki and Ei. How does she do that? well she has to absorb punches and heal herself (which other kages cant afford to do) in order to get close to the enemy to use her punches (which other kages dont NEED to do).



Fighting several giant susano'o clones and landing hits is impressive, because several other Kage's were incapable of doing so - namely Gaara, and Mei.



> Everything else is just delusional



How would you know? You didn't even read the OP 

If you're not even going to read the actual contents of the thread, I won't bother with you.​


----------



## Ranma Saotome (May 31, 2012)

TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> I'm saying that if Tsunade acted like a chakra battery earlier Onoki could have taken out the clones earlier. That's a reasonable thing to say isn't it?
> 
> If the other Kages had the ability to act as chakra batteries I would blame them for not doing it earlier too, but they don't have that ability as far as I know.



It's reasonable, but the only thing I can think of is it never crossed her mind. We aren't in total disagreement, the only thing is, I think _all_ of them should've worked together earlier. In that respect I blame them all for not relying on teamwork. It seems the Kage were getting their asses kicked, with the previous tactic of her just healing and providing support, so she went on the offensive to help out. I think this is the first time they actually broke down and went Captain Planet with it, combining all of their powers at once.


----------



## supersaiyan146 (May 31, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Unless you're a troll​



 



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Clones are generally weaker than their originals. And I think that means in speed as well, hence why Naruto landed a hit on Itachi by himself [ 1 ], and Anko could land a hit on Orochimaru. [ 1 ]​



1) Naruto managed to hit Itachi because Kakashi was holding him down in a Taijutsu scuffle . 

2) Orochimaru was just jobbing around clearly .





> Tsunade is great at evasion and following attack patterns, given that she is the one who taught Sakura how to do so


. 

"Great in Evasion"...great 



> However, without the necessary speed to evade Madara, she relies on her Byakugo and natural resilience to tank attacks in order for her to retaliate and make successful blows


.

I agree.



> I don't think this is sloppy - because she isn't being careless. She probably isn't even trying to evade anymore, because she is fully aware that she can't do it, and that her medical ninjutsu allows her tank whatever she is hit with regardless


Its effective in this case because the clones weren't ainimg at chopping her head off .

Any competitive speedster with the right means (You know who) would lop her head off and GG Tsunade.



> If she was being sloppy, her taijutsu style probably wouldn't be very effective, but given that she's still on her own two feet, and able to land blows on fast opponents, I'd say what she's doing _is_ effective


What does sloppiness have to do with effectiveness ?




> Of course, like Godaime Hokage said, I think Tsunade is being more reckless, than she is sloppy.  But, she's allowed to be reckless, because she can afford to.



Yeah her medical ninjustu allows her to be reckless...and as the Raikage noted ..it also made her Taijutsu style sloppy.



> Part II Tsunade is far above Part I Kabuto. I don't even need to explain that one.



You can if you want 



> *Edit;* Oh and, thanks for reading the OP guys, I'm glad this had a great turnout :33



Tsunade threads are always popular  

*Edit :* Please dont skip my post like earlier


----------



## Spanktastik (May 31, 2012)

Godaime Hokage said:


> And ironically, she was the only one shown to actually be getting any hits on the clones, except for Ōnoki, of course.
> 
> A better translation would've been 'reckless,' but at least it's effective.



That is hardly ironical, she simply is trading hits cause she will regenerate for the time being. Doesn't change the fact that she is slow and far from being a taijutsu master. 



Butterfly said:


> I'm just going to redirect you to  on why she's a brilliant CQC fighter. Please read above as to why A is wrong.
> 
> Seriously, I don't know why or how people could legitimately use A's comment as benchmark as to what sloppy is when he rushes into fights head on, nearly kills Jinchurikis without prior thought  or consultation from the rest of the war committee, and, in this very chapter, lets himself get put into a genjutsu because he lets down his guard. It's like using Orochimaru to benchmark what's mentally healthy.



Nagato was also dangerous in close quarters, yet I would not consider him a taijutsu master, the same goes for Naruto/Chouji. I do not deny Tsunade through her superb medical ninjutsu and chakra control is a force to reckon with, however amazing at taijutsu? No way. 

Because A's statement makes sense??? She is rushing her life span in order to deal with these susaano's quickly. Yes its the only way for her to land a lethal hit, but no I do not view this as good combat feats on her behalf when she is rushing her life force like that.


----------



## Butterfly (May 31, 2012)

Namikaze Minato said:


> Butterfly AKA Muffinssi ,
> 
> why did you even attempt to explain what you said in those two quotes?


Because you suck at reading comprehension, point blank. I'm not going to mince words or state things sweetly here. Just about everything you read is fullblown proof that Tsunade is an evil, incompetent bitch who keeps running Konoha into the ground (guess, what, Manga says she isn't) and everyone else (Specifically Minato) is the second coming of christ. 



> so if Orochimaru was envious it means Tsunade can regenerate if her head is cut into two pieces  , she can regenerate her brain?


Considering how this Orochimaru can regenerate from being beheaded, it carries strong implications. Tsunade stated that she can regenerate any organ. The legendary medic, who, even her haters, agree she's fantastic at, cannot suddenly properly identify the brain as an organ? Seriously? 



> Orochimaru also was envious of Sasuke powers and thought he can defeat Itachi , but could Sasuke do it?
> 
> No , so you bringing Orochimaru as evidence is not valid.


Orochimaru doesn't have the knowledge on Itachi that he does on Tsunade's technique. For one thing, he has no clue about Itachi's growth and wasn't exposed to all of his skills. He also underestimated Sasuke a couple of times too.

With Orochimaru and Tsunade, he obviously has full knowledge on his abilities and Tsunade's disclosure, which is accurate as far as all things in the manga go, corroborate a variety of things involving these two people. Finally, Orochimaru can't assess Sasuke/Itachi's abilities accurately, but he can assess and compare his own to what Tsunade reveals. 



> and about Tsunade lasting fighting for years Lol , ok lets take part 2 feats , she got tired quickly against Madara , in 1 day , she didnt even last a week , not to mention *YEARS!* lol.


Do you not know how to detect a blatant hyperbole? Thank you for proving my point about reading comprehension. 

She didn't get tired against Madara "quickly". I'd like to see scans of such proof. She so far hasn't run out of wind, except for the part where she was regenerating her organs which is justified since, you know, punctured organs and giant sword words can generally make a person less efficient at moving whilst they're regenerating. 



> and no Sharingan is not required just cuz Madara said so , the Shinobi world have evolved since Madara died , we saw new ways of detecting clones , like the way Minato used with his finger.


And so that means they can see through Hashirama clones?  There's a league of difference between clones made by the ultimate shinobi, and fodder.




TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> If she is skilled in Taijutsu than she hides it extremely well. Her current fighting style is sloppy, can we agree on that?


I'm not going to agree on her hiding her taijutsu skill extremely well because she doesn't. Her current fighting style isn't sloppy, reckless is a better word to describe it and I'll agree on that. Being intentionally reckless isn't anything bad if you can regenerate anything and have the chakra to do so. 



The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> So now people are saying Tsunade can regenerate her head
> 
> 
> Tsunade fans


Oh no. It looks like someone didn't read my reasoning. Whatever shall I do .

This isn't a new theory, or anything that's rocket science. Tsunade states she can regenerate limbs and organs, the BD states the same thing. Unless you're telling me the world's greatest medic can't properly identify what constitutes as a limb or an organ, I don't see why you're whining. Yes, regenerating a head is unrealistic. But, in a manga where people survive without brains and souls are completely tangible, it might be possible. 




Jad said:


> Personally, I wouldn't call her a Taijutsu master, only Gai and Rock Lee hold those titles (since Kishimoto explicitly states it in their bio's), and Neji (since he has mastered and surpassed the Hyuuga clan).
> 
> She is not bad anyways, I would like to see more grapple techniques from her though. She should have been lifting up those Sasunoos and using them as a bat. Now that would have been something funny and impressive.


Neji is more of a taijutsu master than Tsunade? Are you joking? Tsunade has a higher statistic than Neji in taijutsu anyways. And do you mind citing what databook this is? Tsunade has been a five since getting in shape (And was fantastic whilst out of shape). Lee only became a five recently. I wouldn't call Lee a master at Taijutsu. Mostly because he's inexperienced, and, his fighting style in base isn't very useful. The gates and the drunken fist are where his true mastery come from. Kishimoto states that no one can stand shoulder to shoulder with Tsunade in combat and tons of characters have praised her strength in battle, coincidentally, she mostly uses only taijutsu. 




Spanktastik said:


> That is hardly ironical, she simply is trading hits cause she will regenerate for the time being. Doesn't change the fact that she is slow and far from being a taijutsu master.


Speed and Taijutsu mastery are not equivalents. Again, I implore you to read this . Tsunade is fantastic at CQC. With her above average speed, her strength makes an absolute cornerstone to die for in any taijutsu style. A poke can render a person incapacitated, and, with evasion, experience, actual taijutsu skill, stamina and resilience, it should come under no question that she qualifies as a taijutsu expert. 



> Nagato was also dangerous in close quarters, yet I would not consider him a taijutsu master, the same goes for Naruto/Chouji. I do not deny Tsunade through her superb medical ninjutsu and chakra control is a force to reckon with, however amazing at taijutsu? No way.


There's a difference between excelling in an art and mastering an art. I'd argue that Chouji and Nagato excel in Taijutsu, as it's a comfortable place for both of them to fight in (although Nagato has other things he prefers to fight with since he's sort of a cripple). However, they need experience and a variety of things to become a taijutsu master. One could make a case of Naruto being a taijutsu master, although, I think he's merely highly fantastic in the art of taijutsu, nothing _mastery_ level (although, I must note, Naruto could beat most people 1 vs. 1 on taijutsu with his sheer speed, and the like.). Frog Kata Naruto is one I'd rank more of a taijutsu master, but, he generally lacks experience.



> Because A's statement makes sense??? She is rushing her life span in order to deal with these susaano's quickly. Yes its the only way for her to land a lethal hit, but no I do not view this as good combat feats on her behalf when she is rushing her life force like that.


A doesn't have knowledge on the technique's drawbacks in the first place. His statement is just flatsided and biased. He has no clue on her durability, the limits of her regeneration, or her massive chakra reserves. At a glance, A's statement seems to make sense. But, when one looks into who is saying it (Arguably the most reckless character in the fight), and what knowledge they possess, it doesn't quite match up. Against 5 (or 10 as possibly pointed out in an earlier post) Susanno, Tsunade needs to haul some serious ass. 

And, as an Uzumaki and Senju, she has the lifespan of a god. Remember, these are Kishimoto's favorite people good guys. Her life force will be just fine. She can't really get any older, and, let's face it, with the amount of people that hate her, she's probably going to live forever. Since when has Kishimoto ever given the fanbase what the wanted? Somehow, he can disappoint everyone on every side at once.


----------



## Namikaze Minato (May 31, 2012)

Butterfly said:


> Because you suck at reading comprehension, point blank. I'm not going to mince words or state things sweetly here. Just about everything you read is fullblown proof that Tsunade is an evil, incompetent bitch who keeps running Konoha into the ground (guess, what, Manga says she isn't) and everyone else (Specifically Minato) is the second coming of christ.
> 
> 
> Considering how this Orochimaru can regenerate from being beheaded, it carries strong implications. Tsunade stated that she can regenerate any organ. The legendary medic, who, even her haters, agree she's fantastic at, cannot suddenly properly identify the brain as an organ? Seriously?
> ...


thanks for the flame-bait , i expected no less from you.

regenerating an organ is different than regenerating when your cut in half , in which you assume she can regenerate from just cuz she's a good healer , which is not proof in itself , you're just grasping at straws here.


and Lol about her not tired huh , she already looks worn out , if the fight continues for lets say another week for the sake of argument , i'd give her 1 extra week , that doesnt justify you thinking she can last for *years* Lol.

ah , so the clones from Ultimate Shinobi have a Plot barrier or something to cover up the fact that they are bunshins?

you havent convinced me there ...


----------



## Yuna (May 31, 2012)

Spanktastik said:


> Because A's statement makes sense??? She is rushing her life span in order to deal with these susaano's quickly. Yes its the only way for her to land a lethal hit, but no I do not view this as good combat feats on her behalf when she is rushing her life force like that.


We actually cannot know that for sure. It is entirely possible that Byakugo works in a completely different manner from Sozo Saisei. Sozo Saisei heals the wounds you currently have and then dissipates. Byakogu is a state you put yourself in during which you will heal whatever damage you take.

It's entirely possible she developed Byakugo during the time period period Part I and Part II when she went from being a pacifist to being a Hokage, who would eventually have to risk her life for the village. It's entirely possible that Byakugo doesn't shorten your lifespan. It reads and memorizes the state of your body at the point of activation and constantly returns your body to that state.


----------



## Butterfly (May 31, 2012)

Namikaze Minato said:


> thanks for the flame-bait , i expected no less from you.


Flame-bait is something you excel in as well. 



> regenerating an organ is different than regenerating when your cut in half , in which you assume she can regenerate from just cuz she's a good healer , which is not proof in itself , you're just grasping at straws here.


It's not because she's a good healer. It's because she states the technique can regenerate limbs and organs. Her being a good healer is part of it (or else she wouldn't know what constitutes as either) but, it's not all of it. Being cut in half would normally kill anyone, but this manga creates several loopholes/inconsistencies/etc. with the human body. Being cut in half means she has to regenerate skin and, bone, muscle and any organs that are sliced. It's not anything she can't regenerate previously. 



> and Lol about her not tired huh , she already looks worn out , if the fight continues for lets say another week for the sake of argument , i'd give her 1 extra week , that doesnt justify you thinking she can last for *years* Lol.


Hyperbole 
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

Do you really think I honestly meant she could fight for _years_? Do you think I meant that statement to be taken literally? Can you detect any hint on where that'd be an exaggeration or something meant to be taken in a figurative manner? She doesn't look physically worn out. She looks a bit battle worn, but, I assume anyone fighting this long would have some evidence of fighting. 




> ah , so the clones from Ultimate Shinobi have a Plot barrier or something to cover up the fact that they are bunshins?


They're bunshins from an EMS Haxxx Madara. If the great Madara Uchiha couldn't identify a clone, I doubt the rest of the Awesome Ninja Squad would be able to identify one either. Hashirama - even his clones - are a cut above the rest. I mean, do you really think they're just Bunshins when they're overwhelming the five kage? 



> you havent convinced me there ...


you seem pretty set against her tbh so whatever.


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 31, 2012)

Butterfly said:


> I'm not going to agree on her hiding her taijutsu skill extremely well because she doesn't. Her current fighting style isn't sloppy, reckless is a better word to describe it and I'll agree on that. Being intentionally reckless isn't anything bad if you can regenerate anything and have the chakra to do so.



slop?py/ˈsl?pē/
Adjective:	
(of semifluid matter) Watery and disagreeable or unsatisfactory: "do not make the concrete too sloppy".
Careless and unsystematic; excessively casual.

Reckless and sloppy are basically the same thing. 


Her "fighting style" is to attack head on and hope for the best. In this situation Tsunade was hit twice by enemy attacks and then couldn't do any damage to her target (The clone inside Susano). Now I'm going to repeat myself, can we agree that her fighting style is both careless and unsystematic?


----------



## Butterfly (May 31, 2012)

TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> slop?py/ˈsl?pē/
> Adjective:
> (of semifluid matter) Watery and disagreeable or unsatisfactory: "do not make the concrete too sloppy".
> Careless and unsystematic; excessively casual.
> ...


Sloppy carries a far worse connotation than reckless. Reckless doesn't carry the implication that it's unsatisfactory, or, bad work. A person can still be reckless but still powerful/on the ball. For example, I wouldn't call Ichigo sloppy, but he's certainly reckless from time to time. 

Her fighting style right now is careless and its' very unmethodical because she doesn't have high, blitzkreig speeds. I agree with that.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (May 31, 2012)

Butterfly said:


> Oh no. It looks like someone didn't read my reasoning. Whatever shall I do .
> 
> This isn't a new theory, or anything that's rocket science. Tsunade states she can regenerate limbs and organs, the BD states the same thing. Unless you're telling me the world's greatest medic can't properly identify what constitutes as a limb or an organ, I don't see why you're whining. Yes, regenerating a head is unrealistic. But, in a manga where people survive without brains and souls are completely tangible, it might be possible.



You know how many character statements in this manga are fallacy? A ton. Tsunade regenerating her head isn't simply unrealistic it's downright impossible even for a manga. 

Being the worlds greatest medic doesn't mean she can regenerate her freaking head. Unless you can provide me with a scan of said statement happening then there's nothing left to discuss.

I swear Tsunade fanboys/fangirls are becoming just as bas as the Itachi ones.


----------



## Butterfly (May 31, 2012)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> You know how many character statements in this manga are fallacy? A ton. Tsunade regenerating her head isn't simply unrealistic it's downright impossible even for a manga.
> 
> Being the worlds greatest medic doesn't mean she can regenerate her freaking head. Unless you can provide me with a scan of said statement happening then there's nothing left to discuss.
> 
> I swear Tsunade fanboys/fangirls are becoming just as bas as the Itachi ones.


It's not unrealistic though. Orochimaru survived decapitation, and even regenerated from it _canonly_ and yet he expresses envy over Tsunade and her ability to regenerate wounds. Sasori can survive without a brain and a variety of otherwise vital organs, and, since he didn't become a puppet immediately, it means he had to have some period of time of surviving without a brain. Additionally, (to counter your unrealistic part), the brain is never given a stressed amount of importance, in comparison to the heart and the soul. In fact, the soul even takes some actions that the brain has. In this exact manga, we've had characters will themselves back to life. The human body and what constitutes as realism quite obviously doesn't apply to Naruto. 

Tsunade even states she can reconstruct and/or regrow any part of her body[1], which, is pretty inclusive considering her status as a medic.

Of course, it's not a sure fire thing. I could be wrong. But, at the same time, to outright berate any opinion (the affirmative or the negative) is pretty ridiculous.


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 31, 2012)

Butterfly said:


> Sloppy carries a far worse connotation than reckless. Reckless doesn't carry the implication that it's unsatisfactory, or, bad work. A person can still be reckless but still powerful/on the ball. For example, I wouldn't call Ichigo sloppy, but he's certainly reckless from time to time.
> 
> Her fighting style right now is careless and its' very unmethodical because she doesn't have high, blitzkreig speeds. I agree with that.



Would you agree that her fighting style is both careless and unsystematic? If you do than her fighting style is sloppy by the definition of the word...


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (May 31, 2012)

Butterfly said:


> It's not unrealistic though. Orochimaru survived decapitation, and even regenerated from it _canonly_ and yet he expresses envy over Tsunade and her ability to regenerate wounds. Sasori can survive without a brain and a variety of otherwise vital organs, and, since he didn't become a puppet immediately, it means he had to have some period of time of surviving without a brain. Additionally, (to counter your unrealistic part), the brain is never given a stressed amount of importance, in comparison to the heart and the soul. In fact, the soul even takes some actions that the brain has. In this exact manga, we've had characters will themselves back to life. The human body and what constitutes as realism quite obviously doesn't apply to Naruto.
> 
> Tsunade even states she can reconstruct and/or regrow any part of her body[1], which, is pretty inclusive considering her status as a medic.
> 
> Of course, it's not a sure fire thing. I could be wrong. But, at the same time, to outright berate any opinion (the affirmative or the negative) is pretty ridiculous.



And Orochimaru is immortal and can't be killed by any physical attack, Tsunade isn't. Big big difference. Also when did Orochimaru ever have his head cut off? 

Anyway by your logic Tsunade could have her head, arms, and legs cut off and body split in half and still regenerate. 



Do you know how ridiculous that is? There are a ton of character statements that are fallacy in this manga, so to take that one seriously is pretty foolish. 

Tsunade's NEVER demonstrated such a feat, so unless you can asspull a scan and show it to me then like I said there's nothing left to discuss.

People are right when they call Tsunade fans a joke.


----------



## Jad (May 31, 2012)

Butterfly said:


> Neji is more of a taijutsu master than Tsunade? Are you joking? Tsunade has a higher statistic than Neji in taijutsu anyways. And do you mind citing what databook this is? Tsunade has been a five since getting in shape (And was fantastic whilst out of shape). Lee only became a five recently. I wouldn't call Lee a master at Taijutsu. Mostly because he's inexperienced, and, his fighting style in base isn't very useful. The gates and the drunken fist are where his true mastery come from. Kishimoto states that no one can stand shoulder to shoulder with Tsunade in combat and tons of characters have praised her strength in battle, coincidentally, she mostly uses only taijutsu.



Neji has no Jounin feats at the moment currently, but his still a Taijutsu master. Databook says he . Also quote _"unrivalled tenketsu-hitting taijutsu"_. That means his mastered the Hyuuga Style, which means mastering a form of Taijutsu that includes flexibility, high speed movements, and pin point accuracy. 

Rock Lee, 

Also Kishimoto notes "the master of ‘drunken fighting.’"


----------



## Kujiro Anodite (May 31, 2012)

Didn't read the whole thread,  Meh! 

HATERS GONNA HATE!!! go Tsunade!!!


----------



## Butterfly (May 31, 2012)

TheFirstHokageOfTheWood said:


> Would you agree that her fighting style is both careless and unsystematic? If you do than her fighting style is sloppy by the definition of the word...



Carless at this moment, yes. But, the definitions for sloppy and reckless are slightly different and carry slightly different connotations. Stating someone's work is sloppy isn't like stating someone's work is reckless. By strict definitions I agree, but how the words are commonly used and the connotation they carry, I don't. 




The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> And Orochimaru is immortal and can't be killed by any physical attack, Tsunade isn't. Big big difference. Also when did Orochimaru ever have his head cut off?


Orochimaru isn't immortal though. He still takes damage from physical attacks, and, his attempts to pursue immortality never got him to truly reach his goal in a more broader term of speaking. 

Orochimaru had his head cut off here[1][2] despite the fact that Orochimaru is in his true form, I don't think this is any less of a thing to think about or utilize in this post. Tsunade can't be killed by any physical attack whilst she has Sozo Saisei/Byakugo up and running, unless they totally obliterate her. In fact, I'll link you to the general thread where someone who isn't particularly a Tsunade fan examines the possibilities





> Anyway by your logic Tsunade could have her head, arms, and legs cut off and body split in half and still regenerate.


Well, to be honest, once you cut off her head, what you do to the rest of the body isn't particularly relevant. She'll most likely regenerate from her head/around her head, since that's where the soul would most likely be and it's the technique's starting point.



> Do you know how ridiculous that is? There are a ton of character statements that are fallacy in this manga, so to take that one seriously is pretty foolish.


Her statement about what her jutsu does is ridiculous? No, not really. If it didn't follow up on the hype, I'd agree. But, so far, we've seen her regenerate everything that constitutes as a limb, and most likely several organs (the chances of Orochimaru, an experienced ninja with tons of knowledge on the human body, hitting a non-fatal point in Tsunade's torso, which is riddled with vital organs, isn't significantly high.). We've seen her get crushed from her stomach through her chest and we've seen her regenerate through that. She might have even regenerated from an attack from Madara's giant susanno yo-yo thing, and, if she didn't regenerate it, she most likely tanked it. The databook also corroborates this.  

It's not in character for Tsunade to lie about what her regeneration does. The only thing she leaves out is the after effects, or else they'll try to wait it out. Not to mention, that explanation was meant for the audience's benefit anyways. Why on earth would she bother to lie about it when it's there solely for the audience to understand why she no longer has a gaping hole in her chest?



> Tsunade's NEVER demonstrated such a feat, so unless you can asspull a scan and show it to me then like I said there's nothing left to discuss.
> 
> People are right when they call Tsunade fans a joke.


Tsunade's regenerated everything that constitutes as a limb. She's stated what the technique can do - regenerate organs and limbs, and she's most likely done both (although we aren't seeing her internal damage so it's hard to say). Ninja can live without vital organs and their bodies are different from average humans.

Like I said, your response is understandable. Even in most fiction, beheading someone usually is a sure-fire way to kill someone. Unfortunately, the manga fucks around and, as a result, everything is speculation. It's feasible she can regenerate something, whether or not it'll happen (or be demonstrated) is another story. None of us have any concrete information to state for sure, so we have to put pieces of the puzzle together and come to our own conclusions.

With that stated. I granted you the basic gratitude not to deride you for your own preferences or ideas in this thread. You're free to deride the idea itself, but attacking your own debate opponent is, to be frank, an asshole thing to do. Please grant me the same courtesy I've given you, or don't debate with me at all. I don't have any interest in facilitating debates where people can't differentiate the objective ideas and the conclusions they drawn from them from the people who state them. 



Jad said:


> Neji has no Jounin feats at the moment currently, but his still a Taijutsu master. Databook says he . Also quote _"unrivalled tenketsu-hitting taijutsu"_. That means his mastered the Hyuuga Style, which means mastering a form of Taijutsu that includes flexibility, high speed movements, and pin point accuracy.
> 
> Rock Lee,
> 
> Also Kishimoto notes "the master of ?drunken fighting.?"


I wouldn't quite call Neji surpassing his clan mastery. It could just mean that his clans weren't specific masters of Taijutsu. Even then, doesn't his uncle have a higher taijutsu statistic compared to him? In that case, Neji surpassing might just mean over all, but he's still inferior in the art of taijutsu compared to his uncle. 

However, if Neji, who has a 4.5, and Lee, who has a 5, are considered Taijutsu masters, I don't see why Tsunade isn't.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (May 31, 2012)

Butterfly said:


> Carless at this moment, yes. But, the definitions for sloppy and reckless are slightly different and carry slightly different connotations. Stating someone's work is sloppy isn't like stating someone's work is reckless. By strict definitions I agree, but how the words are commonly used and the connotation they carry, I don't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I never started the debate now did I? You replied to me. 

Anyway unless you can provide a scan of Tsunade regenerating her head, arms, or legs then I really don't have anything else left to discuss with you. 

A character statement isn't valid proof because as I said there are plenty of character statements in this manga that are fallacy or simply hyperbole.


----------



## Frawstbite (May 31, 2012)

Hey OP, do you feel like you made any mistakes in your interpretation in all of these nine pages, or all we wrong across the board?

I mean, someone must have pointed out something you didn't catch at this point.


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (May 31, 2012)

Butterfly said:


> A doesn't have knowledge on her Taijutsu, her chakra reserves, or her regeneration's limits. That's only his own insight given his taijutsu is heavily speed reliant. Tsunade, on the other hand, uses more endurance and letting the opponent hit her so she can hit back. Tsunade is just as a taijutsu master as A is (although, if it came down to a fight, A would most likely win due to his insane speed which pushes the limits of what Tsunade can endure).
> 
> Tsunade, on the other hand, has full knowledge on her own abilities. A's comments are purely speculation, and Tsunade states that she's not getting sloppy. She's just fighting the only way she can at this point. Evading 5 Susanno-wielding Madara clones just isn't going to work for this woman, but, she's a fucking tank and can regenerate and has chakra to go all day. She'll be just fine if she lets herself get shanked her and there. That's what she means in her comments to A. Judging that she was sloppy off of A's short sided comment isn't a very good way to judge her, especially since he was caught because he let his down guard briefly _in the same chapter_



So let me get this straight....

A's been around the Narutoverse for a while, he knows Tsunade, he's seen how she fights and she's part of the shinobi alliance along with him. A's also the one man here who specializes in Taijutsu. Out of everyone of the Kages he's the best Taijutsu user there is. That's what he does. So you're telling me Tsunade, who specializes in medical Ninjutsu above all areas is just as good as Raikage A in Taijutsu? You really need to step back and rethink that. That makes no sense. Also, going by your logic considering Tsunade knows how strong she is and what not couldn't one say that since A could be just as good in medical ninjutsu as Tsunade since, according to your comments, A has full knowledge of his own abilities and Tsunade doesn't? No one seen him do it but apparently considering he knows himself and Tsunade doesn't we can, in theory, make that comment. We should go by what we see not by what we "know". I've never seen anyone say Tsunade's just as good as A in Taijutsu. 

See, that's not going to cut it in this type of situation. You can't say "Well A doesn't know Tsunade but she does therefore" when really that's ridiculous. Also beyond that A's shown many different Taijutsu skills and he's rivaled around for his Nin-Taijutsu. The fact you're saying Tsunade's just as good holds no weight in this type of comparison until you outright find some comments or legit evidence proving that. Until then it's a backless statement. Also I want to say if you didn't mean "just as good" and meant "just as a Taijutsu master as A is" (which is something I don't understand at all but regardless A's better) then hey I call my comments back but back to the situation at hand. 

Tsunade said that's all she can do during that time, she was careless. Hell, A of all people claiming that should have been the clincher. Not only that why would Kishi of all people even put that in there if that comment was false? It makes no sense. 

A's comment to the actual situation as hand Tsunade's reckless, she's not thinking straight and as she herself said "this is the only way I can do this". She didn't even disagree with Raikage's comments. She knows what she's doing but that has to happen given the circumstances. It's what the situation entails. I don't see any problems with that. Bringing A up, well the fact he was distracted could be contributed to the fact he was looking after Tsunade after he realized she was getting sloppy. Every action has a reaction. He shouldn't have been looking after her and should have let her get sloppy without any comments but eh. It happens. 

It is what it is.


----------



## Butterfly (May 31, 2012)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> I never started the debate now did I? You replied to me.
> 
> Anyway unless you can provide a scan of Tsunade regenerating her head, arms, or legs then I really don't have anything else left to discuss with you.


When a person comes up and talks to you, you're still talking to that person. It doesn't suddenly change just because they come up to you. If you're replying to me, I assume you're debating with me (or else, what are you doing?). If you're replying to me debating you, then you're debating. I'm not sure what type of logic you're employing here, but it isn't working. 

Besides, your statements were quite obviously directed at me anyways. If you don't want to start a debate then don't post an opinion followed by a derogatory statement. It's not that hard to do. 

Tsunade has regenerated everything that constitutes as a limb. Flesh, muscle[1], bone[2][3], and possibly a head wound[4]. We've seen her regenerating anything that counts as a limb (and we've seen her regenerate organs that usually don't come back after being afflicted, which is a majority of the things in your torso). I'm not sure why you're so interested in it being a full-blown limb, since, she technically has regenerated the things that make up a limb and there's no difference between a limb and what makes up a limb, except for the fact that a limb is a term. 



> A character statement isn't valid proof because as I said there are plenty of character statements in this manga that are fallacy or simply hyperbole.


Plenty of character's aren't equivalent to Tsunade. We have several statements to back up the possibility of her regenerating limbs, at the very least (including her own description of what the technique does when she has no incentive to exaggerate, and Kabuto and Orochimaru seem to confirm with the fact that they don't speak up and instead observe her as she does it. Keep in mind they're experienced with the human body and most likely know what they hit, and what they've damaged, and, again, I highly doubt Orochimaru would _not_ hit a vital organ since the chest is full of them and he's an experienced ninja in his own right). A head seems to be the prime debate, which, no one can come to a surefire conclusion to, sadly.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (May 31, 2012)

Butterfly said:


> When a person comes up and talks to you, you're still talking to that person. It doesn't suddenly change just because they come up to you. If you're replying to me, I assume you're debating with me (or else, what are you doing?). If you're replying to me debating you, then you're debating. I'm not sure what type of logic you're employing here, but it isn't working.
> 
> Besides, your statements were quite obviously directed at me anyways. If you don't want to start a debate then don't post an opinion followed by a derogatory statement. It's not that hard to do.
> 
> ...



I was replying to people in general who were saying Tsunade could regenerate her head. It wasn't just you. I had no interest in debating with you. You're the one who replied to me.

And Tsunade has NEVER regenerated an entire limb such as an arm, leg, etc. Has she regenerated flesh? Yes, but never a limb. So unless you can show me a scan of her doing so then like I said I have nothing left to discuss with you.

If you choose to believe her statement then that's fine, but I don't. There are tons of fallacy and hyperbole character statements in this manga. It seems you just choose to believe this one since you're a Tsunade fan. 

Do you believe Naruto is truly the only one capable of surpassing Minato? Do you believe that Minato was unsurpassable? Do you believe Itachi is invincible? 

These are all examples of hyperbole. Tsunade's statement is most likely another one.

Anyway I'm done because you simply can't provide sufficient proof to support your claim.


----------



## Frawstbite (May 31, 2012)

If Tsunade loses her head then her blood stops pumping, her chakra network and heart stops, etc. I don't know if creation rebirth can sustain the life of what is basically a corpse. If that headless corpse ever regenerates a head then creation rebirth is not a technique that accelerates the birth of new cells. 

It's just witchcraft.

Other limbs make sense, because the chakra network is still working.


----------



## Jad (May 31, 2012)

The thing that is soo hard to believe if Tsunade can actually regenerate a limb is Kishimoto has yet to show it. His had soo many opportunities to show us this beastly regeneration type feat. His passed on showing it so many times its starting to be like, "Is he backing away from what he has said before?"


----------



## Godaime Kazekage (May 31, 2012)

Her technique seems to simply accelerate the normal healing process. When someone loses a limb, they can't regrow it no matter how much time is allotted. The wound closes (with proper medical assistance) and I believe that is what would happen in Tsunade's case. 

If she loses her head, what happens exactly? Does her body regrow a head or does her head regrow a body? Or both?


----------



## Summers (May 31, 2012)

Jad said:


> The thing that is soo hard to believe if Tsunade can actually regenerate a limb is Kishimoto has yet to show it. His had soo many opportunities to show us this beastly regeneration type feat. His passed on showing it so many times its starting to be like, "Is he backing away from what he has said before?"



Starting to believe that. Its not a hard thing for him to show either and has shown Oro doing it. +his description of the Jutsu supports it. She has been shredded,super-impaled, sliced and diced.Why no chop-chop Kishi?


----------



## Doge (May 31, 2012)

Jad said:


> The thing that is soo hard to believe if Tsunade can actually regenerate a limb is Kishimoto has yet to show it. His had soo many opportunities to show us this beastly regeneration type feat. His passed on showing it so many times its starting to be like, "Is he backing away from what he has said before?"



It doesn't matter because that's how the technique works.  I don't care if there aren't any feats of it or relevance to actual medical sciences associated with cell division.



That's why it's a fact that Amaterasu is as hot as the sun, Minato can only be surpassed by Naruto, Naruto immediately surpassed Kakashi when he learned the fuuton rasengan, etc. 


Because it's all fact.



summers said:


> Starting to believe that. Its not a hard thing for him to show either and has shown Oro doing it. +his description of the Jutsu supports it. She has been shredded,super-impaled, sliced and diced.Why no chop-chop Kishi?



Notice:

Tsunade mainly receives slashes, gashes, and puncture wounds to the torso.  Never a decapitation, bisection, or loss of limb.


If she was cut in half, which half would heal the wound?


----------



## TheFirstHokageOfTheWood (May 31, 2012)

Butterfly said:


> Carless at this moment, yes. But, the definitions for sloppy and reckless are slightly different and carry slightly different connotations. Stating someone's work is sloppy isn't like stating someone's work is reckless. By strict definitions I agree, but how the words are commonly used and the connotation they carry, I don't.



Great then we can agree that Tsunade's fighting style is sloppy. If only other Tsunade fans were as reasonable as you are there would be no need for the weekly Tsunade fan wank followed by the expected response.



lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> Notice:
> 
> Tsunade mainly receives slashes, gashes, and puncture wounds to the torso.  Never a decapitation, bisection, or loss of limb.
> 
> ...



Neither, healing was explained a long time ago. The way it works is by forcing cells to multiply rapidly. No matter how much you force the cells in half of the body to multiply you're still going to end up with half of a corpse. 

Similar story with limbs, the wound will close but the limb won't grow back.


----------



## Butterfly (May 31, 2012)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> I was replying to people in general who were saying Tsunade could regenerate her head. It wasn't just you. I had no interest in debating with you. You're the one who replied to me.


I'm the only one talking about her regenerating a head while being, what constitutes as, as Tsunade fan. . 



> And Tsunade has NEVER regenerated an entire limb such as an arm, leg, etc. Has she regenerated flesh? Yes, but never a limb. So unless you can show me a scan of her doing so then like I said I have nothing left to discuss with you.


She's regenerated things that constitute as a limb. She essentially qualifies for regenerating a limb, at the very least. If we've seen Tsunade regenerate everything that constitutes as a limb, I don't see why we can't state she can regenerate one. A limb, in this case, is just a word. We've seen Tsunade regenerate everything that word means (flesh, bone and muscle). Therefore, she can most likely regenerate a limb. The only thing we've yet to see is her regenerate one despite seeing one (like Raikage chopped off arm level) her regenerate everything that constitutes as one. I don't see what the issue is. 



> If you choose to believe her statement then that's fine, but I don't. There are tons of fallacy and hyperbole character statements in this manga. It seems you just choose to believe this one since you're a Tsunade fan.
> 
> Do you believe Naruto is truly the only one capable of surpassing Minato? Do you believe that Minato was unsurpassable? Do you believe Itachi is invincible?


These statements are about relative power levels, they aren't about a jutsu which is a pretty big difference. 

And, honestly, if I wasn't a Tsunade fan, I'd most likely believe that she can regenerate a limb (as that's what the manga says). As for a head, well, I'd never have the interest to look into it further so I'd be on the fence about it.


----------



## wibisana (Jun 2, 2012)

Godaime Kazekage said:


> Her technique seems to simply accelerate the normal healing process. When someone loses a limb, they can't regrow it no matter how much time is allotted. The wound closes (with proper medical assistance) and I believe that is what would happen in Tsunade's case.
> 
> If she loses her head, what happens exactly? Does her body regrow a head or does her head regrow a body? Or both?



The madara's Kriss (susanoo swords) I believe hit her belly.

She mush have lost stomach (gastric) ,Pancreas, liver, and maybe kidneys
yet she survive


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Jun 2, 2012)

Frawstbite said:


> Hey OP, do you feel like you made any mistakes in your interpretation in all of these nine pages, or all we wrong across the board?
> 
> I mean, someone must have pointed out something you didn't catch at this point.​




No, WolfPrinceKiba corrected me on something I included, it was only a minor detail, but I had gotten it wrong nonetheless. 

There's been 10 pages of comments, so I haven't gotten round to looking at all of the points made. However, the brunt of the opposition are either trolls or people who haven't read the OP. So I can't imagine there has been a huge amount of valid points made.



SuperMinato146 said:


> 1) Naruto managed to hit Itachi because Kakashi was holding him down in a Taijutsu scuffle



Itachi could have rather easily put Naruto under an illusion, or broken himself up into crows to escape Kakashi.

Itachi had a number of methods to escape, but he didn't.



> 2) Orochimaru was just jobbing around clearly.



If he was messing around, I doubt he would have used shadow clones. 



> Any competitive speedster with the right means (You know who) would lop her head off and GG Tsunade.



Hardly anyone in the manga ever aims to lop peoples head off, its never really a tactic employed in combat at all.

Thus, the argument is pretty unfeasible.



> What does sloppiness have to do with effectiveness?



I'm not sure what relevance your question has?

Ei called Tsunade sloppy because she was taking critical hits. However, she wasn't being sloppy _[hence the point of the thread]_ and thus her style was effective, because she was landing hits on Susano'o clones, where as other Kage weren't. That was my point.



> Yeah her medical ninjustu allows her to be reckless...and as the Raikage noted ..it also made her Taijutsu style sloppy.



It didn't make her style sloppy, though. To be sloppy is to be careless and to do things without thinking. That isn't what Tsunade is doing, Tsunade knows she can't avoid attacks from such a fast opponent, she's using her resilience and regeneration to tank any attacks she can't evade, and then use the opening created _[if any]_ to land blows. She knows what she's doing, and she isn't being careless, she's just being very reckless, and thus the Raikage was concerned for her health. His style is very different to hers after all, and he's never actually seen her fight before.



> *Edit :* Please dont skip my post like earlier



There were a lot of posts to reply to, I decided it was best to make a single post, outlining a few brief points which cover most of the arguments made in other peoples posts, rather than quoting all of them. 



wibisana said:


> The madara's Kriss (susanoo swords) I believe hit her belly.
> 
> She mush have lost stomach (gastric) ,Pancreas, liver, and maybe kidneys
> yet she survive



This.

People need to look past the simplicity of " Tsunade has never regrown an arm, so she can't do it! "

No, she's never regrown an arm, but she's regenerated tissue and organs that are probably just as great as a missing arm, or leg. As wibisana said, Tsunade was impaled right through the chest by a giant sword. Furthermore, in the latest chapter, _two_ giant swords are going through her abdomen. 

The amount of cells in a duodenum, liver, stomach, pancreas, the ribs and any and all the tissue and muscle surrounding these organs, probably equates to that of the cells needed to regrow an arm or leg. Furthermore, despite already using chakra to repair this damage, she still has more chakra left - so she can regenerate back from even more damage than what she's already shown.

Granted, we can't be sure if she could regrow her head back, but I see no reason at all why she couldn't regrow an arm, or a leg.​


----------



## Doge (Jun 2, 2012)

> Ei called Tsunade sloppy because she was taking critical hits. However, she wasn't being sloppy [hence the point of the thread] and thus her style was effective, because she was landing hits on Susano'o clones, where as other Kage weren't. That was my point.



Most of the other kages don't have the means to break Susanoo.  Even if they did, they are exhausted beyond belief and Tsunade/Raikage are the only ones with chakra reserves left.  Raikage naturally can't quite break through Susanoo on a regular basis, and the only reason Tsunade could break the Susanoos down was due to her strength.

As we can all see, Onoki one shotted all of the remaining clones once Tsunade gave him chakra.  It's all about movesets when dealing with Susanoo.



And Tsunade was indeed "sloppy" with her combat.  She allowed herself to get hit, which is something a skilled combatant usually avoids doing.  That's why the Edo Zombies always take blatantly horrible risks in battle, because they can afford to be hit.  Raikage only said it was sloppy because she could ignore a huge aspect of the combat spectrum, damage.  


For example, if an army of 100,000 men went up against an army of 10,000 equally trained and proficient warriors, the army of 100,000 would not have to show the skill the 10,000 man army would have to in order to win.  Thus, the 100,000 man army could be "sloppy" and take risks otherwise detrimental to their well being.


Again, the Raikage called Tsunade sloppy because she fights like an Edo Zombie and doesn't take into consideration actual damage like kakashi for instance does.  If you think the Raikage was rigidly basing his definition incorrectly on the textbook definition, the context of the manga will state otherwise.


----------



## Doge (Jun 2, 2012)

> The amount of cells in a duodenum, liver, stomach, pancreas, the ribs and any and all the tissue and muscle surrounding these organs, probably equates to that of the cells needed to regrow an arm or leg. Furthermore, despite already using chakra to repair this damage, she still has more chakra left - so she can regenerate back from even more damage than what she's already shown.




Have you seen an amputee regrow an arm?


No, and we have not seen Tsunade regrow an arm or a leg.  We don't know the extent of her technique.  How can you be so sure just by damage level that she can grow it back?  Legs are different than the abdomen.  The functioning isn't the same, it is different to grow back an arm than to grow back vital organs.  We don't know how exactly Tsunade's tech actually functions and whether none, some, or all human restrictions of regrowth apply.


----------



## Bringer (Jun 3, 2012)

> Ei called Tsunade sloppy because she was taking critical hits. However, she wasn't being sloppy _[hence the point of the thread]_ and thus her style was effective, because she was landing hits on Susano'o clones, where as other Kage weren't. That was my point.




People are also missing the point that Ei said her taijutsu was getting/becoming sloppy. Meaning there getting sloppy but not at first.

Also in the accurate translation he said messy not sloppy. And said *started* to become

to do anything



> Have you seen an amputee regrow an arm?



They never tried because they would die of blood loss and even if they did not the amount of time it would possibly take would be more then a lifetime. 

Thats why doctors seal the wound. Though Shi medical ninjutsu also sealed the wound of the Raikage arm  though medical ninjutsu makes healing speed increase while regeneration is a whole different story.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Jun 4, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> Most of the other kages don't have the means to break Susanoo.  Even if they did, they are exhausted beyond belief and Tsunade/Raikage are the only ones with chakra reserves left.  Raikage naturally can't quite break through Susanoo on a regular basis, and the only reason Tsunade could break the Susanoos down was due to her strength.



Indeed.



> As we can all see, Onoki one shotted all of the remaining clones once Tsunade gave him chakra.  It's all about movesets when dealing with Susanoo.



And the ability to survive. Whether it be with shields, evasion, or with sheer resilience.




> And Tsunade was indeed "sloppy" with her combat.  She allowed herself to get hit, which is something a skilled combatant usually avoids doing.  That's why the Edo Zombies always take blatantly horrible risks in battle, because they can afford to be hit.  Raikage only said it was sloppy because she could ignore a huge aspect of the combat spectrum, damage.



I disagree entirely. Indeed, _evasion_ is a part of taijutsu, but only a small part of it. Other factors affect ones taijutsu as well, like actual skill, and resilience - things that Tsunade is definitely employing. Tsunade is not trying to evade attacks and failing - because that _would_ make her sloppy. She is, as you said yourself, _allowing herself_ to be hit, so she can retaliate and inflict damage/land hits, something the other Kage's weren't doing. Tsunade is using the openings created from the foes attack to get a hit in - that is evident skill in taijutsu, something an amateur would be totally incapable of doing. Her resilience and regeneration allows her to take strikes and fight through them, and having that sort of longevity and resilience in close quarters definitely aids her taijutsu prowess. What Tsunade is doing is reckless, but it's not sloppy - she know's what she's doing, and its effective.






> For example, if an army of 100,000 men went up against an army of 10,000 equally trained and proficient warriors, the army of 100,000 would not have to show the skill the 10,000 man army would have to in order to win.  Thus, the 100,000 man army could be "sloppy" and take risks otherwise detrimental to their well being.



In that case, the 100,000 men would be holding back - they wouldn't be trying as hard as they could be, and so if they were hit, its because they're careless and indeed, _sloppy_. Tsunade isn't holding back though, it's true that she's letting herself get hit, but only because she knows she can't evade in the first place - she focuses her attention on landing strikes rather than evasion. She's using her head, and it's working. 



> Again, the Raikage called Tsunade sloppy because she fights like an Edo Zombie and doesn't take into consideration actual damage like kakashi for instance does.  If you think the Raikage was rigidly basing his definition incorrectly on the textbook definition, the context of the manga will state otherwise.



The manga implied that the Raikage was a hypocrite anyway. He called Tsunade sloppy, but let his guard down straight after, and was caught by Madara's Susuano'o as a result. If anyone was sloppy in that chapter, it was _him_. 



lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> Have you seen an amputee regrow an arm?



Normal amputee's dont have the ability to regenerate 



> No, and we have not seen Tsunade regrow an arm or a leg.  We don't know the extent of her technique.  How can you be so sure just by damage level that she can grow it back?  Legs are different than the abdomen.  The functioning isn't the same, it is different to grow back an arm than to grow back vital organs.  We don't know how exactly Tsunade's tech actually functions and whether none, some, or all human restrictions of regrowth apply.



We do know how it functions, actually. . She stimulates the production of various enzymes to accelerate cell division, so that she can reconstruct _any_ parts and organs of her body. Since then - she's had various organs ripped out of her body with giant swords, and regrown them in an instant. Her jutsu functions the same for all the damage she takes, regrowing an organ, is no different than regrowing a leg - going by her own explanation of how it takes effect.



BringerOfChaos said:


> People are also missing the point that Ei said her taijutsu was getting/becoming sloppy. Meaning there getting sloppy but not at first.



She was in a lot of pain, as we saw when she knelt down shortly after ripping both swords out of her body. It wouldn't be a surprise if her style was becoming less effective, given the pain she was in. Even then, though, her style was still effective enough to land hits on Susano'o clones, something the other Kages couldn't do.



> Also in the accurate translation he said messy not sloppy. And said *started* to become
> 
> to do anything



I see. Well messy is different to sloppy. It all comes down to translation, I suppose.

How do you know this is the accurate translation, though? ​


----------



## Cord (Jun 4, 2012)

The reason why people are not convinced about her skill in Taijutsu may be because she hasn't shown enough impressive speed feats (like what Kakashi/Gai/Lee has shown) and her super strength overshadows her flexibility. On top of that, we don't see much of her in action until recently (unlike those mentioned above). Though, I do believe she's very skilled at it- I just think we should get to see more.

But more than her Taijutsu skills, I'm rather interested about her regenerative abilities cause I think that's her greatest asset. I've always been curious as to what extent can she be able regenerate.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Jun 4, 2012)

I think people just need to get it out of their heads that speed is the only factor which makes up a good taijutsu style. I agree with you though, Cordelia. We need to see more ​


----------



## Summers (Jun 4, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> I think people just need to get it out of their heads that speed is the only factor which makes up a good taijutsu style. I agree with you though, Cordelia. We need to see more ​



Not going to happen sadly. Funny thing is if Tsunade made the same wide swinging lunging unrefined movements(not my thoughts) but "Bam in your face" speed was added, all that talk would go away. Its how fast she moves, not how graceful.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Jun 4, 2012)

It's just a shame that such a narrow-minded, one dimensional view, is shared by so many people.​


----------



## KyuubiYondaime (Jun 4, 2012)

She's better than I expected, but to top Jiraiya's versatility in Ninjutsu and Oro's Edo Tensei, she still has work to do.


----------



## DeK3iDE (Jun 4, 2012)

> I. Tsunade's fighting style is not sloppy.


her fighting style is sloppy, for the exact same reason Sakura's fighting style is. They practically announce their swings hoping it hits something all while leaving themselves wide open for a counteratk. Their target wouldn't even need a Sharingan to pull it off either 





> The manga implied that the Raikage was a hypocrite anyway. He called Tsunade sloppy, but let his guard down straight after, and was caught by Madara's Susuano'o as a result. If anyone was sloppy in that chapter, it was him.


So he got caught off guard. That was the clone taking advantage of the situation. It hardly makes Ei a hypocrite for crying out loud Madara just got through taking advantage of another Kumo-nin in a similar circumstance. Could've happened to anyone since both Madara's battle exp and smarts are vastly superior to literally everyone out there anyway. If you noticed there's not 1 Kage out there who hasn't been getting handled by the clones


----------



## Lelouch Vi Britannia (Jun 4, 2012)

I enjoyed reading this, it was enlightening.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Addy (Jun 4, 2012)

didn't raikage say she is sloppy or something?


----------



## Shaz (Jun 4, 2012)

Nice thread.

I think she is doing exceptionally to say the least. If I was to rank it by current effort of Kages towards this fight against Madara I'd say:

1. Onoki
2. Tsunade (Closely behind, however Onoki did save some ass)
3. Raikage
4. Gaara
5. Mei


----------



## Rios (Jun 4, 2012)

Her supporting skills sky rocketed her usefulness. While her Taijutsu ones actually got down a bit. 

Anyway Taijutsu is boring, even Gai's taijutsu. Martial arts never look good on paper.


----------



## Frawstbite (Jun 4, 2012)

Addy said:


> didn't raikage say she is sloppy or something?



Yeah, but you know...Interpretations and all that. No one can really say for sure, but I'd like to think a pure taijutsu fighter would know a little bit about sloppy. Especially since he's been there and done that, throwing away his arm just to smack Sasuke.

People are saying he meant reckless, but I say if the author meant reckless he would have put reckless, but I guess there could be other ways to translate it.

After getting impaled left and right, how can you not be sloppy? And why the hell would you be reckless with a technique that literally shortens your lifespan? I say she was sloppy, but I don't think it began that way. Even if you can heal getting stabbed through the spine must still hurt like a bitch and slow you down.


----------



## Addy (Jun 4, 2012)

Frawstbite said:


> *Yeah, but you know...Interpretations and all that. *No one can really say for sure, but I'd like to think a pure taijutsu fighter would know a little bit about sloppy. Especially since he's been there and done that, throwing away his arm just to smack Sasuke.
> 
> People are saying he meant reckless, but I say if the author meant reckless he would have put reckless, but I guess there could be other ways to translate it.
> *
> After getting impaled left and right, how can you not be sloppy? And why the hell would you be reckless with a technique that literally shortens your lifespan? I say she was sloppy, but I don't think it began that way. Even if you can heal getting stabbed through the spine must still hurt like a bitch and slow you down.*


it's the observation of a person who witnessed her first hand. what is there to interpret especially that the raikage is a taijutsu expert himself? 

are you seriously making excuses for her "sloppiness"? 

btw, anyone loled at kishi's logic?. the two susano'o swords should have cut her in half :rofl and it looked like a tutu 

i stopped taking this battle seriously when that happened since it's canon that no one will die in it


----------



## Frawstbite (Jun 4, 2012)

Addy said:


> it's the observation of a person who witnessed her first hand. what is there to interpret especially that the raikage is a taijutsu expert himself?



I already said she was sloppy so there is no reason to press as we are in agreement. You're asking the wrong person. Hell in the part you bolded I said she was sloppy. All I did was throw in some reasoning.



Addy said:


> are you seriously making excuses for her "sloppiness"?



Nope, it's not an excuse. It's a reason, more or less. Hey there's a difference, and believe me I am not quick to defend Tsunade or anyone else. I just don't think that she would fight everyone in the same manner with two giant swords crossing through her stomach. You know, cause normally she doesn't have two giant swords crossing through her stomach.


----------



## mylastduchess (Jun 4, 2012)

Addy said:


> it's the observation of a person who witnessed her first hand. what is there to interpret especially that the raikage is a taijutsu expert himself?
> 
> are you seriously making excuses for her "sloppiness"?
> 
> ...



 Oh my god this again?

Do you really think the Raikage would just insult her mid battle (especially since she smashed through susanoo and the Raikage hasn't)

Careless or Reckless would have been a better translation as any logical reader could understand that the Raikage was just getting worried to her increasingly riskier fighting style (in reference to the two spikes in her stomach) the word Taijutsu was never mentioned 

Cause you know besides speed wtf is the big difference between Tsunade and Raikage in taijutsu style?


----------



## DeK3iDE (Jun 4, 2012)

mylastduchess said:


> Cause you know besides speed wtf is the big difference between Tsunade and Raikage in taijutsu style?


Ei's taijutsu is more calculated and direct with little wasted motion. Tsunade's on the other hand is not. With her and Sakura their fighting style is like "take a swing and hope it hits _something_/_somebody_"


----------



## Addy (Jun 4, 2012)

Frawstbite said:


> Nope, it's not an excuse. It's a reason, more or less. Hey there's a difference, and believe me I am not quick to defend Tsunade or anyone else. I just don't think that she would fight everyone in the same manner with two giant swords crossing through her stomach. You know, cause normally she doesn't have two giant swords crossing through her stomach.



so if she fought, for example, orochimaru/pain/naruto/jiraya/whoever you choose and got exhausted and stabbed, is that an excuse for her performing poorly in battle? yes, it is but if i remember right, madara already blitzed her once before getting this exhausted. yes, she does get wounds but that is a part of battle. you can't honestly say that healthy itachi at his final moments while using susano'o would have done better because that would erase everything before that moment. or a better example is lee vs gaara where lee barley stands, you can't say that healthy lee would have done better  at that exact moment in the battle (which is right) because that would erase everything that happened in the battle before that moment of weakness. 

i guess what i am trying to say is that a battle is accumulative. you can't ignore everything before a point in the battle like being stabbed and say "if" which is why i hate "if" situations unless it has to do with the fight being staged to begin with like itachi vs sasuke.





mylastduchess said:


> Oh my god this again?
> *
> Do you really think the Raikage would just insult her mid battle (especially since she smashed through susanoo and the Raikage hasn't)*



insult her? where did i say that?  i said it's an observation.




> Careless or Reckless would have been a better translation as any logical reader could understand that the Raikage was just getting worried to her increasingly riskier fighting style (in reference to the two spikes in her stomach) the word Taijutsu was never mentioned
> 
> Cause you know besides speed wtf is the big difference between Tsunade and Raikage in taijutsu style?


indeed, because tsunade being careless or reckless is better 

even if taijutsu was not mentioned, she is still criticized for her overall performance (since no specifics were mentioned) which in itself includes taijutsu. and tsunade's attacks are only taijutsu as far as i remember


----------



## Melodie (Jun 4, 2012)

Addy said:


> but if i remember right, madara already blitzed her once



Well, you remember wrong. Tsunade was never 'blitzed' by Madara. At least, not so far.​


----------



## raizen28 (Jun 4, 2012)

WOW a Madara Clone:.

Raikage can say she Sloppy cuz 
Raikage is Better in Taijutsu than Tsunade
.
 Its what Kishi Implied. yeah she Blitzed them But Got Impaled By them


----------



## Maerala (Jun 4, 2012)

What's baffling is that people made excuses for Madara and Danzō when they got hit by saying that they wouldn't have let themselves take those blows if they didn't have Izanagi and Edo Tensei regeneration to fall back on, respectively, but apparently that doesn't apply to Tsunade and Byakugō.


----------



## raizen28 (Jun 4, 2012)

Godaime Hokage said:


> What's baffling is that people made excuses for Madara and Danzō when they got hit by saying that they wouldn't have let themselves take those blows if they didn't have Izanagi and Edo Tensei regeneration to fall back on, respectively, but apparently that doesn't apply to Tsunade and Byakugō.


Kishi Let them to Display their Abilities Respectively.


----------



## Maerala (Jun 4, 2012)

raizen28 said:


> Kishi Let them to Display their Abilities Respectively.



So Kishi's not letting Tsunade get hit to display Byakugō's regeneration abilities? Does that only apply to certain characters?


----------



## Doge (Jun 4, 2012)

Madara, nor any Edo Tensei, has ever had to show their full combat skill.  It's unnecessary.  They simply can let their bodies take the damage in order to hurt the opponent.  That's the reason why the protagonists get showcased extensively because of their disadvantage.

Danzo just wasn't very fast to begin with, probably because he is around Sarutobi's age.  


Tsunade is only getting grilled here because her medical ninja skills focus on evasion while she isn't applying it.  Raikage points out how she fights "sloppy" simply because she takes the hit and then counters, instead of not taking the damage at all.  He'd probably consider the edo zombies and Danzo "sloppy" as well.



*Spoiler*: __ 



Judging by Kabuto's success in disabling Tsunade's tendons, Tsunade's evasiveness is limited to how much damage she is willing to take.  Kabuto outwitted her and she put herself into a horrible position against her opponent who did not have to cause extensive physical damage to get the edge.  Tsunade should've been more on her toes to avoid a predicament such as that against someone who can't be defeated by the tanking game.


----------



## mylastduchess (Jun 4, 2012)

Addy said:


> insult her? where did i say that?  i said it's an observation.


 Oh, so that was just an observation, right now I get it

The Raikage was just observing how much her taijustu sucks right in the middle of the battlefield right? Now that makes perfect sense and zoo fits the context of their conversation!!


> indeed, because tsunade being careless or reckless is better


 yeah cause that so unlike Kakuzu, Hidan, Danzo to use their form of invincibility as a battle tactic to gain an advantage wow how stupid am I



> even if taijutsu was not mentioned, she is still criticized for her overall performance (since no specifics were mentioned) which in itself includes taijutsu. and tsunade's attacks are only taijutsu as far as i remember



Wow so if the Raikage said she was fighting courageously, or half-heartedly that obviously refers to her taijutsu right?


----------



## raizen28 (Jun 4, 2012)

Godaime Hokage said:


> So Kishi's not letting Tsunade get hit to display Byakugō's regeneration abilities? Does that only apply to certain characters?


That answer is up to Kishi. He Displays Stuff for certain characters over others all time


----------



## Frawstbite (Jun 4, 2012)

Addy said:


> so if she fought, for example, orochimaru/pain/naruto/jiraya/whoever you choose and got exhausted and stabbed, is that an excuse for her performing poorly in battle?



I stopped there, because I already said I wasn't making excuses and I wasn't particularly defending her, but that's just not enough for you is it?

Again, and this is the last time, I was pointing out what made her sloppy in that moment. It's not as if Raikage was saying she sucked. Her combat skills were diminishing due to a long battle, that is not an excuse, it is just a fact I pointed out. 

That's all. Not an excuse, a *reason.* If I was defending her and saying that she wasn't sloppy then you could argue it was an excuse. I already pointed out that I was doing none of those things. My god.


----------



## Dragonus-BB- (Oct 10, 2016)

I know this thread was written back in the day and all not long after the chapter released with just the panda/MS translations available, but I'm surprised that in 5 pages everyone continued to debate what A "said" instead of asking someone who'd have been around like TakL for a translation check.

The official Viz volume states "You're getting sloppy in battle, Hokage."

Since this is a signature thread I'll presume the OP will get some value from this at least:


So her fresh taijutsu was never being insulted.


----------

