# Dresden Files Series



## Mαri (Jun 27, 2009)

My parents have the entire series of Dresden Files books and I was wondering if they were worth the read at all.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bluebeard (Jun 27, 2009)

There worth the read. I'm only on the second book, but I was hooked since I read the first one.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Jun 27, 2009)

I find the series gets a good deal better as you progress, although at a certain point (book 10) it kind of peaks and degrades a new. That said, the 1st and 2nd book are easily the worst of the entire series. I'd go so far as to say they could be skipped and for you to just start on the third book. I think the 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 9th book, are the most engaging of the series. Just reading those would have made the series so much mroe enjoyable.


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## vervex (Sep 10, 2009)

Great series! Loving it! Just finished the 7th book 

Jim Butcher's style is not too hard to read and yet nice. For a fantasy series, it's very down to earth. Unlike many other novels involving wizards (I'm thinking about HP here), the Dresden Files are for a more mature audience, teens and adults. Some parts are really gruesome and well, there's sex involved as well. It explores some theme darker than in most kids' stories. And I'm a big fan of the sarcasm Butcher uses in his novels.

Really loving it so far


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## Detective (Jan 1, 2010)

_**Bump**_

Well, it's 2010 and Book 12 is a little over 3 months away.


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## Nimander (Jan 1, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8v486aUYu0[/YOUTUBE]


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## Magnum Miracles (Jan 2, 2010)

I gotta catch up fast. I'm only on Fool Moon.


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## Nimander (Jan 2, 2010)

No rush.  The Dresden Files are meant to be enjoyed the same way you'd drink a Dr. Pepper: nice and slow.


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## jkingler (Jan 2, 2010)

I've been needing to read Turn Coat for quite some time now. I look forward to being able to do so. Great reads, and some of the most ridiculously, hilariously, intensely badass imagery I can think of. 


*Spoiler*: _Spoilers_ 



50 foot billy goat gruff? Riding a zombie T-rex into zombie battle (where the older the corpse, the greater the power?!)? Absurd. And awesome.


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## Nimander (Jan 2, 2010)

^Classic Jim Butcher for you.  If you like this, I really recommend his other series, The Codex Alera.

*gasp*  And what's this?!  There's a thread not too far below this one outlining the series along with a list of all it's books?!  I'm telling you; it's a sign, jkingler.


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## Butcher (Jan 2, 2010)

I plan on reading,_Storm Front_ soon.I'm not much of a Fantasy person(More of a Mystery person),but as soon as I get my hands on _The Poet_ and finish it,I will read _Storm Front_.


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## Mαri (Jan 2, 2010)

Lol, nice bump .

I still haven't read the first one, mostly because I'm eerie about it. When, in the first book, does it start to grasp you?


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## Magnum Miracles (Jan 2, 2010)

Mαri said:


> Lol, nice bump .
> 
> I still haven't read the first one, mostly because I'm eerie about it. When, in the first book, does it start to grasp you?


For me, it was when Bob came into the picture.


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## Nicodemus (Jan 3, 2010)

I love this series. Jim Butcher is hilarious, and has a way of showing you certain scenes where you just have to stop and think about how amazingly badass that was.

Can't wait for Changes. Butcher said the first line will be (Can't remember the exact quote right now, but this is the general gist):


*Spoiler*: __ 



I picked up the phone. "Harry." Susan said "They've taken our daughter."


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## Emperor Joker (Jan 3, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> I love this series. Jim Butcher is hilarious, and has a way of showing you certain scenes where you just have to stop and think about how amazingly badass that was.
> 
> Can't wait for Changes. Butcher said the first line will be (Can't remember the exact quote right now, but this is the general gist):
> 
> ...



Wait I thought it was son?


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## Nicodemus (Jan 3, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> Wait I thought it was son?



Nope, I'm pretty positive it was daughter. Either way it's gonna be awesome, the Red Court is pretty high up there on my favorite list of baddies. (Right behind the Denarians and just a touch above the Fae)


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## Emperor Joker (Jan 3, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> Nope, I'm pretty positive it was daughter. Either way it's gonna be awesome, the Red Court is pretty high up there on my favorite list of baddies. (Right behind the Denarians and just a touch above the Fae)



I'm hoping we'll get more than just the Reds this outing, maybe we'll get some info on the Jade Court that Shiro mentioned in Death Masks...or the repapearance of the dragon guy from Grave Peril.

There's a whole lot of people to consider here, not to mention Shagnasty coming back for more again.


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## Nae'blis (Jan 4, 2010)

Sabu935 said:


> I plan on reading,_Storm Front_ soon.I'm not much of a Fantasy person(More of a Mystery person),but as soon as I get my hands on _The Poet_ and finish it,I will read _Storm Front_.


 More of a supernatural detective story.


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## Nicodemus (Jan 4, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> I'm hoping we'll get more than just the Reds this outing, maybe we'll get some info on the Jade Court that Shiro mentioned in Death Masks...or the repapearance of the dragon guy from Grave Peril.
> 
> There's a whole lot of people to consider here, not to mention Shagnasty coming back for more again.




I doubt we'll be seeing Shagnasty, Jim usually likes to wait a while before bringing back old villains. Like the Denarians took 4 books and the Fae took 6. (Though the white court and the red court didn't take as long.)

The Jade court would be interesting, I don't know...but yeah, the dragon (Ferrovax) would be interesting. I've been curious about them, all we know is that Michael killed one and that Ferrovax is possible leagues above that one.


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## Nimander (Jan 9, 2010)

What I really love about the series is how JB sets up many of these characters in the first few books, even if he only alludes to them for a short time.  Then they come back later in the series and have huge plot importance, and it's not an ass pull precisely because JB has set them up previously.

And yes, Harry has those moments in the books where you just stop, sit back, be like, "WTF did I just read?!" and ruminate on the awesomeness/badassery of what he just did.  If I give JB nothing else, I'll give him this: he writes some awesome protagonists.


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## Tyrael (Jan 9, 2010)

Just started the first book. Good enough concepts, but the writing has me far from impressed so far. As I progress will probably give my thoughts.


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## Nimander (Jan 9, 2010)

The first book isn't the best example of JB at his best.  Plus, it was the first novel he'd ever released, so his style is still a bit rough around the edges.  But I can guarantee that as the series progresses, you'll find the fluidity and composition of the plot to be vastly improved.  So it's worth hanging in there.


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## Bergelmir (Jan 9, 2010)

Tyrael said:


> Just started the first book. Good enough concepts, but the writing has me far from impressed so far. As I progress will probably give my thoughts.



Nimander is right. Books 1 and 2 are pretty shite compared to the books 3 and onward. Thats mostly because Jim Butcher wrote book 1 when he was 19 or 20. And then wrote book 2 and started book 3 while he was still trying to get book 1 published. So quality wise, everything plot and writing improve quite a bit after book 3. And they continue to improve with each book.




Nimander said:


> What I really love about the series is how JB sets up many of these characters in the first few books, even if he only alludes to them for a short time.  Then they come back later in the series and have huge plot importance, and it's not an ass pull precisely because JB has set them up previously.


Apparently there are still left over plot points from Storm Front that will only show up near the ending trilogy. Its quite amazing how Jim makes almost every single line in the book relevent to the plot of the series.

I only wish he would branch out more in the folklore and mythology used. But we still got 11 more books to add that kinda stuff in.


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## Nimander (Jan 11, 2010)

With all the folklore from different countries out there, JB has a trove of stuff to work with.  I for one can't wait for him to get into African folklore and mythology (you just know it's coming.:ho).


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## Bergelmir (Jan 11, 2010)

African and Indian folklore invading the Dresden-verse would make my year awesome. I'm surprised we haven't seen any Aztec or Mexican beasties yet, since their brutality seems a perfect fit with Jim Butcher making Harry's life a living hell.


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## Emperor Joker (Jan 11, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> African and Indian folklore invading the Dresden-verse would make my year awesome. I'm surprised we haven't seen any Aztec or Mexican beasties yet, since their brutality seems a perfect fit with Jim Butcher making Harry's life a living hell.



With Harry looking to be going to South America in Changes, it would seem like a perfect time to introduce some of Aztec/Mayan/Mexican folklore creatures in my opinion.


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## Bergelmir (Jan 11, 2010)

South America? So more spoilers have been released for Changes? Nice.

So, South America... I had assumed that Jim would have the kidnappers come to Chicago since he's gone to such efforts to keep Harry there. Man. We might get to see Red vamps feeding on children, and whole villages of vamp addicted residents.(I'm going with the Reds as the kidnappers.) This is going to be so much fun.


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## Emperor Joker (Jan 12, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> South America? So more spoilers have been released for Changes? Nice.
> 
> So, South America... I had assumed that Jim would have the kidnappers come to Chicago since he's gone to such efforts to keep Harry there. Man. We might get to see Red vamps feeding on children, and whole villages of vamp addicted residents.(I'm going with the Reds as the kidnappers.) This is going to be so much fun.



There's a  pyramid/temple in the background of the Changes cover, i'm assumin Dresden's going to leave Chicago for part of the book at least.

 If not we can hope that the Reds will bring some South American nasties back with them.


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## Detective (Jan 12, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I picked up the phone. "Harry." Susan said "They've taken our daughter."



When that spoiler first came out a little while after Turncoat was released, my first thought was:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Supernatural Badass Detective:



+ 



=


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## Nicodemus (Jan 13, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> There's a  pyramid/temple in the background of the Changes cover, i'm assumin Dresden's going to leave Chicago for part of the book at least.
> 
> If not we can hope that the Reds will bring some South American nasties back with them.



Yeah I'm pretty sure he's headed to South America. The book is called Changes after all, and I think Butcher takes that pretty literally. For example, did you guys see the pattern with the titles of the DF books?

Storm (5 letters)
Front (5 letters)

Fool
Moon

Grave
Peril


Etc, etc.


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## Tyrael (Jan 14, 2010)

Just finished the first book. Here are my brief thoughts:


*Spoiler*: __ 



-For a debut novel, it was very well structured and paced.

-There were moments where the writing was really good, but mostly it was mediocre and failed to evoke the atmosphere that Butcher obviously intended.

-Not sure of the characterisation, although Dresden certainly grew on me.

-Interesting core for the magic system, although at times it felt like the author showing off his research, but it still is worryingly vague - without limits, magic can often feel like it is only what the plot needs it to be.

-The villain and the ending seemed to pull out all the black magic cliches and went straight into hyperbole. I couldn't take him seriously.

-Never really believed for a moment that Dresden was in real danger - sure, I know there is a series so logically he must survive, but the book would have been called the first book in the Dresden Files series anyway. There are plenty of authors who can evoke that tension, overriding the logical thought that the protagonist must survive and making us believe that there is real danger.

It's a strange thing to say, but this book was at it's strongest during the midsection. The beginning was a bit weak and the end was a bit silly. It never bored me and was always easy to pick and read though. At the moment I'm unsure whether or not I'll continue the series.


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## jkingler (Jan 14, 2010)

The first is the weakest, really. I'd recommend that you push on.


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## Nimander (Jan 14, 2010)

What JK said.  Trust me when I say that all those problems you listed with the first book are resolved as the series progresses.  

A co-worker of mine recommended the books to me for months.  But because it never seemed like the kind of books I would like, I put them off until my fantasy fountain had run dry.  I picked them up to pass the time, yet the series ended up becoming one of my favorites.  Keep reading, and you won't be disappointed.


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## Nicodemus (Jan 14, 2010)

I'd actually advise skipping the second book, and maybe even the third. The fourth one is _really_ good, and b that time the magic system has really smoothed itself out. In fact, I honestly think of this as one of the most balanced and interesting magic systems I've read.


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## Emperor Joker (Jan 14, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> I'd actually advise skipping the second book, and maybe even the third. The fourth one is _really_ good, and b that time the magic system has really smoothed itself out. In fact, I honestly think of this as one of the most balanced and interesting magic systems I've read.



Honestly if you want to you can read them out of order if you want to, as Dresden will generally exposit on things if it accurred in a previous book for a little bit.


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## Magnum Miracles (Jan 14, 2010)

Reading Fool Moon right now. Damn that Loup-Garou is kicking some police and Dresden ass.


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## Nimander (Jan 14, 2010)

That's another thing I like about JB's writing style, how the good guys often face ridiculous odds.  Yet despite all that, and despite knowing that plot dictates who is most likely to survive and who is going to die, there's still a sense of suspense throughout the story.


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## Nicodemus (Jan 17, 2010)

What I love about it is Harry is never the stronger guy. He isn't superman, just beating up on some chumps, and in terms of power, he's pretty low on the scale. He has to be creative an tricky to pull out a win.


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## Nimander (Jan 17, 2010)

Like I said in an earlier post of mine, JB is ridiculously good at writing an enjoyable protagonist.


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## Magnum Miracles (Feb 2, 2010)

I thought I might update this topic with my thoughts on _ Fool Moon_. I did not think it was as good as the first one. I mean sure _Fool Moon_ had loads of action and killing,but the suspense was bad compared to the first one. Another problem is Dresden's romantic side, I do not like characters being romantic. Storm Front also had much better humor, and a better final battle. Don't don't get me wrong, I loved _Fool Moon_, but it was not as good as _Storm Front_.

I have _ Grave Peril_ sitting on my bookshelf now, but I'll wait and read it after I finish all the books  I am currently reading.


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## Bergelmir (Mar 2, 2010)

Chapter 1 for Changes is up on Butcher's website: 

Pretty damned good beginning. And we get to see Mac speak full sentences.


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## Magnum Miracles (Mar 2, 2010)

Finished Grave Peril last week. Gonna start Summer Knight soon.


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## Bergelmir (Mar 2, 2010)

Goku1003 said:


> Finished Grave Peril last week. Gonna start Summer Knight soon.



How'd you like Grave Peril? Thats where the entire series just kicks off into high gear.


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## Emperor Joker (Mar 2, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> Chapter 1 for Changes is up on Butcher's website:
> 
> Pretty damned good beginning. And we get to see Mac speak full sentences.



pek Book's almost here, can't fucking wait...


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## Bergelmir (Mar 2, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> pek Book's almost here, can't fucking wait...


Hell yeah. 

I love that Butcher brings out the fanboy in me. My F5 key stopped working last night 'cause I refreshed that preview page way too many times.


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## C. Hook (Mar 2, 2010)

Polka, werewolf DnD nerds, dragon centurions, pizza loving fairies, a knight templar who isn't a dick, smartass wizards, zombie T. Rexes, and a talking skull. Is it possible to dislike this series?


And Turncoat was awesome. My favorite so far, and the fight between Listens to Wind and Shagnasty was my favorite in the series.

And yeah, TWF nailed it for the first book. Also, Butcher had some weird anti-science bias earlier in the series.


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## Nimander (Mar 4, 2010)

What awesomeness have I missed in my time away from LD?

But I think I'll wait for the actual book before I read anything.  That'll also give me the chance to catch back up on the series a little bit as well.


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## Nicodemus (Mar 5, 2010)

What surprises me more?


*Spoiler*: __ 



Harry having a daughter
or
Mac speaking more than 2 words at a time?

I think we all know the answer to this one.


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## jkingler (Mar 5, 2010)

Turn Coat is super cheap at Target, so I just got it for like 5 bucks. 

/about halfway through it


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## C. Hook (Mar 5, 2010)

jkingler said:


> Turn Coat is super cheap at Target, so I just got it for like 5 bucks.
> 
> /about halfway through it



I had to search EVERYWHERE to get my copy. Lucky you.

And Morgan is badass. He NUKED a skinwalker.


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## dreams lie (Mar 11, 2010)

Jim Butcher is fantastic.  It is humorous, witty, and never gives you a chance to catch your breath.  The beginning of Turncoat basically explained his formula:  introduce the main plotline along with four or five other problems within two to three chapters.  The main character gets his ass kicked the whole way through (which provides a sense of reality) and usually struggles to solve only two or three of these issues by the conclusion of the book.  There are so many loose ends introduced that I just cannot wait for the newest novel when announced.

@Turncoat

Easily the best so far.  My only complaint is that


*Spoiler*: __ 



 Marcone was not in it.  Asides from the protagonist, he is easily my favorite character so far.  




Also, I was a bit disappointed that the whole 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Soulfire/Angels plot device ended so abruptly.  With the death of Lash, I was expecting great things with Soulfire or at least some kind of quest from the angels to promise greater aid in the future.  I suppose Demonreach was a fair substitute though.  




@Changes

I read the latest chapters, but no matter what happens, the first line is mind boggling.  Was definitely not expecting this twist.


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## jkingler (Mar 11, 2010)

Chapter 2 from Changes was good stuff. 

Someone, do post to update us when 3 and 4 come up.


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## dreams lie (Mar 12, 2010)

I believe he is updating every Tuesday.  I managed to read both of the chapters at once because I didn't even know he was already passing out teasers-  I went to his website to see when the book was coming out.


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## Detective (Mar 16, 2010)

jkingler said:


> Chapter 2 from Changes was good stuff.
> 
> Someone, do post to update us when 3 and 4 come up.



Chapter 3 is up and running. And the shit's about to hit the fan already.


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## Bergelmir (Mar 17, 2010)

Superman said:


> Chapter 3 is up and running. And the shit's about to hit the fan already.



Holy crap. I feel really sorry for that building. You just know that Harry is going to burn it down.


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## Emperor Joker (Mar 18, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> Holy crap. I feel really sorry for that building. You just know that Harry is going to burn it down.



Indeed I pity the building it doesn't deserve the massive structural damage Harry's about to put it through.


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## jkingler (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks for relinking. I am looking forward to Ch. 4 and the rest of the book...


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## dreams lie (Mar 23, 2010)

Just read the last two chapters.  Not that impressed compared to the plots of the two books before it, but I will purchase Changes.  I will have faith in him.


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## jkingler (Mar 24, 2010)

Chapter Fourrrrrrrrrrrrr:


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## Detective (Mar 24, 2010)

jkingler said:


> Chapter Fourrrrrrrrrrrrr:




*Spoiler*: __ 







			
				Harry Dresden The Peaceful Wizard said:
			
		

> The man once wrote: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger. Tolkien had that one mostly right.
> 
> I stepped forward, let the door bang closed, and snarled, "Fuck subtle."







			
				Harry Dresden The Philosophical Wizard said:
			
		

> "Ack!" I said.
> 
> Fearless master of the witty dialogue, that's me.







			
				 Harry Dresden The Outraged Wizard  said:
			
		

> Susan nodded and they both started down the hallway, toward the stairs. "Come on, Harry. We found floor plans. The building's wired."
> 
> I blinked and ran after them. "Wired? To what?"
> 
> ...









All in all, April cannot come soon enough.


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## Bergelmir (Mar 24, 2010)

Chapter 4 was fantastic. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Knowing horror tropes saving Harry's life? Brilliant.

Uriel is probably more than a little peeved that soulfire(or Godfire as I call it) is being used with so much hatred, though.


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## C. Hook (Mar 27, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm hoping Harry gets a new office.


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## Nimander (Mar 27, 2010)

Holy shit, in the course of going through everyday shit I completely forgot this book is coming out soon.

FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU-

On the bright side, it's like getting jeans out of the dryer and finding 20 dollars in one of the back pockets.


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## Magnum Miracles (Mar 27, 2010)

Going to Booksamillion tomorrow to buy the rest of the Dresden Files, since my library does not have them.


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## Detective (Mar 31, 2010)

So close... So close....



Are you guys ready!?





I'll be honest, the second it hits the internet, I will be downloading the PDF/LIT/HMTL copy of the book for instant devouring/reading.


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## Nicodemus (Apr 1, 2010)

5 more days.......
I don't think my body can contain this much excitement.


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## Detective (Apr 1, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> 5 more days.......
> I don't think my body can contain this much excitement.



Which is exactly why I am searching for the paperback/kindle/soft copy format that is being released today.


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## Bergelmir (Apr 1, 2010)

The e-books get released early? Those lucky bastards....


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## Detective (Apr 1, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> The e-books get released early? Those lucky bastards....



I know actually reading the book in your hands is tradition and all but the e-book format is seriously under rated by many people. It's very adaptable to different digital viewing formats and is very nice when your on the go. I mostly read on my laptop but other people use e-book files for their PDA's, iPhone's or any kind of multimedia savy cellphone, and mp3 players with playable video/imaging.


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## Bergelmir (Apr 1, 2010)

I'm one of the traditionalists.  I try to read physical books as often as I can, although I do have a sizable collection of books in pdf format, probably 2 or 3 gigs worth.

The Kindle has peaked my interest, though, even if it seems to small to read comfortably. (its much smaller than a paperback in height and width, right?)


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## Detective (Apr 1, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> I'm one of the traditionalists.  I try to read physical books as often as I can, although I do have a sizable collection of books in pdf format, probably 2 or 3 gigs worth.
> 
> The Kindle has peaked my interest, though, even if it seems to small to read comfortably. (its much smaller than a paperback in height and width, right?)



Don't get me wrong man, I love traditional reading as well, when time permits it. Also its a bit easier to pull out a digital device than a book out of a backup/carrying bag when in a crowded bus/subway train etc.

But yes, Kindle is smaller but also cheaper as a bonus benefit. You can even run Amazon e-book Kindle's on the iPhone with the apps they have available now.

But my main reason for the digital formats is it's easy accessibility due to releases. I absolutely HATE the wait for a book that I'm dying to read to officially come out, so I really appreciate the badass uploaders out there on the net who get it up ASAP and ahead of schedule.


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## Bergelmir (Apr 1, 2010)

Superman said:


> Don't get me wrong man, I love traditional reading as well, when time permits it. Also its a bit easier to pull out a digital device than a book out of a backup/carrying bag when in a crowded bus/subway train etc.
> 
> But yes, Kindle is smaller but also cheaper as a bonus benefit. You can even run Amazon e-book Kindle's on the iPhone with the apps they have available now.
> 
> But my main reason for the digital formats is it's easy accessibility due to releases. I absolutely HATE the wait for a book that I'm dying to read to officially come out, so I really appreciate the badass uploaders out there on the net who get it up ASAP and ahead of schedule.



I totally get you there. If I wasn't an old school bookworm, I would constantly be losing the battle between pants shitting anticipation and holding out for the physical book to arrive.


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## Detective (Apr 1, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> I totally get you there. If I wasn't an old school bookworm, I would constantly be losing the battle between pants shitting anticipation and holding out for the physical book to arrive.



If you weren't an old school type of fellow to begin with, you would not be a fan of Daniel Rand either. And I can respect that.

_*Slow-Motion Fist Bumps*_


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## Bergelmir (Apr 1, 2010)

Superman said:


> If you weren't an old school type of fellow to begin with, you would not be a fan of Daniel Rand either. And I can respect that.
> 
> _*Slow-Motion Fist Bumps*_



Hell yeah.  I can't wait for the kung fu mages to show up in the Dresden Files when Harry has to deal with the Jade Court.

*fist bumps back*

Although, I didn't become a massive fan until the Brubaker/Fraction run.


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## Detective (Apr 1, 2010)

IT'S BEEN UNOFFICIALLY RELEASED!

       

Ladies & Gentlemen, I look forward to discussing this new addition of urban wizard badassery with you in the coming days. In spoiler tags of course.

EDIT: I have a habit of listening to an epic playlist of various tracks put on loop when reading quality literature. Does anyone else do this?


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## Bergelmir (Apr 2, 2010)

I don't have a playlist, per se, but I do put on my epic music when reading epic literature. The Dresden Files usually ends up with songs like Lord of the Rings "Requiem for a Dream" or E.S.Posthumus' "Nara" or the like.

Actually, I play E.S.Posthumus for any book I read, now that I think about it.


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## Detective (Apr 2, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> I don't have a playlist, per se, but I do put on my epic music when reading epic literature. The Dresden Files usually ends up with songs like Lord of the Rings "Requiem for a Dream" or E.S.Posthumus' "Nara" or the like.
> 
> Actually, I play E.S.Posthumus for any book I read, now that I think about it.



E.S.Posthumus is always welcome for a lot of things in my opinion. However, I agree with the choice of Nara instead of say, Pompeii(too quick for something as long as Dresden, better for shorter works as it's a constant escalation of chants). 

Trailer music and instrumentals(orchestrated or digital beats) in general work fantastic for epic books. Lyrics are usually set for a certain theme, but the background music is a constant. For Dresden, I need something not too quick but a bit darker in tone as well. Here are a few examples:

Clubbed To Death
Clubbed To Death II
Immediate Music ~ Prelude(No Choir), Serenata(Either Version)
E.S. Posthumus ~ Nara

... Just to name a few. Trick is never listening to one song for too long(a couple repeats is fine) while reading. Then it sets the tone too much.


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## Bergelmir (Apr 2, 2010)

Clubbed to Death is fantastic for Dresden. I actually prefer Clubbed to Death II, but that one minute gap at the beginning really annoys me.


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## Detective (Apr 2, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> Clubbed to Death is fantastic for Dresden. I actually prefer Clubbed to Death II, but that one minute gap at the beginning really annoys me.



Yeah but once the main portion of Clubbed to Death II hits, there is no turning back. 

Anyways, I am currently on Chapter 24 of 49 for those who are interested in discussion. Please remember spoiler tags.


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## Nimander (Apr 2, 2010)

Superman said:


> Yeah but once the main portion of Clubbed to Death II hits, there is no turning back.
> 
> Anyways, I am currently on Chapter 24 of 49 for those who are interested in discussion. Please remember spoiler tags.



Link.  To.  E.  Book.  NOW.

Please?


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## Detective (Apr 2, 2010)

Nimander said:


> Link.  To.  E.  Book.  NOW.
> 
> Please?



Already sent. Check your PMs my friend.

P.S: I demand your input on this badass piece of epic literature as soon as humanly possible. Berg is holding out until next Tuesday(and occasionally checking spoilers), so currently I seem to be the only one actually reading this book ahead of time in this subforum.

Current Status: Mid-way through Chapter 34. Story is fucking ridiculous in a good way. Harry is up to his neck in trouble than ever before but is handling it like emotionally weary MacGyver with a GL Power Ring.


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 3, 2010)

So the mailman just came to my house. But he didn't have Andrew Lang's Complete Fairy Books like he was supposed to. Instead, through a stroke of luck, I seem to have erroneously received a copy of Changes several days early. 

Isn't it wonderful when another person's fuck up is your gain? 

Welp. I'm going to lock myself in my room and read this bad boy now.

Au revoir!!


EDIT: Bloody hell. This book exploded my brain. Changes is the perfect title. So much happened. So much got destroyed. And nothing is the same... More happened here than all the previous books combined...


*Spoiler*: _thoughts while reading the book_ 



-Harry challenging Arianna. Fuck. Yes. I was bouncing in my chair like a little girl, going “Burn her! Burn that bitch to the ground!”

-“Go ahead, Arthur. Try it.” 

-Harry flinging around all that magic like a professional when infiltrating the base. The man isn't a spaz anymore.

-Warden Chandler's letter: PS. Why, yes, I can in fact capitalize any words I desire. The language is English. I am English. Therefore mine is the opinio which matters, colonial heathen. :rofl

-Oh shit, Wotan is in the house!!! And naturally, he is pants shitting awesome!

-Bringing back Victor Sell's thaumaturgical strike from Strorm Front is a really neat touch.

-HOLY. FUCK. I cant... jesus... bloody hell... Harry actually became the Winter Knight? Slit Lloyd Slate's throat? goddam son... that was cold. And Mab's line “The stars will rain from the sky before Mab fulfills not her word”. Knowing that an apocalyptic trilogy is coming and that one of the trilogy books is titled “Empty Night”(a White Court phrase), methinks Mab is going to be on the side of destroyers...

-Lol. Harry banged Queen Mab. Will she get knocked up too? 

-Oh god, my jaw dropped when Butters got shot. I actually shouted, “Jim Butcher you fucker!” Kept reading, and I was back to praising Butchers name again.

-Sanya: “You are a drug dealer. To tiny faeries.”  and then later on the topic of Mab: “You hit that.” and “You... tapped that ass. Presumably, it was phat.” I died laughing. 

-Erlking!!! And damn, the mantle of Winter power reall gave Harry a massive powerup both magically and physcially.

-These constant Wizard of Oz and Lord of the Rings references give me great glee.

-Oh shit. Mouse speaks!!! His personality reminds me of a hardened soldier...

-Gravity hammer!! Yeaaaaaaaah!

-Steam turned to icicles? Pretty pimptastic way to deal with the vampire bitch.

-...holy shit. Susan... no more Red Court... bloody hells... *speechless*

-oh my fucking gods! Harry! Cliffhanger ending! Gah!


Harry's life is utterly ruined. He has nowhere to go back to... frack me but that was a heartbreaking book





*Spoiler*: _spoilery question_ 



 Was it ever mentioned who hired Stevie D? I assume it was Arianna, but I don't remember any mention of it.


----------



## Detective (Apr 3, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> EDIT:
> 
> *Spoiler*: _thoughts while reading the book_
> 
> ...



_*Cracks Fingers.... Starts Typing*_


*Spoiler*: _Beware... This Contains A Lot of Awesome Writing_ 



Arianna: Damn, Harry iced her so good. It wasn't about dragging the punishment so much as the message of "After all your planning to cause me pain, you could have just  slit your own throat to make this less humiliating for yourself." 

Arthur: He's gonna be shitting himself in the next book after the power boost and increase in badass that Harry did throughout Changes. Personally I can't wait for that man's moment of realization about how his old man arrogance has cost him so much. That or instead of Cristos, he's the real Black Council plant. Personally I think he was just a "good" guy who foiled himself.

Marcone: This was just a tease in this book. It's been a while and you know that he has to be pulling some strings within the next book. I even considered him to be one of the people who was behind what happened to Harry in the closing paragraphs of the book but then realized that's not his style. He would do it face to face with some sort of life insurance. And with style. Gentleman Johnny Marcone is no coward.

Butters: At first I was  when he appeared, then I was  when Stevie D pulled his shit on him but then I was  because Polka Will Never Die. Well played Mr. Butcher.

The whole intricately planned chessboard theme that is being laid out is really ridiculous in a very, very good way. I can't believe that Victor's original scheme back in Storm Front was brought back. And that just tells me one of the current players is really the Big Bad of the Series. It's not gonna be someone totally new, but mentioned vaguely in passing with little build up clues here and there. And definately a member of the Black Council, but only aligning with them as a means to gain their personal goals.

Winter Knight: Like Harry himself said, of all his evil path choices, this was the "Devil You Know" option with Mab, and his Godmother(who will definately save his ass in a deliberate way before her time comes. The process has already started this book. The affection is half crazy, but it's still genuine affection). That plus it fits in with what his mother used to do hanging around with the Fae.

Knowledge of the Ways: +9999 Tactical Intel. Enough said. This combined with the Winter power boost and Soulfire is gonna get crazy scary for his next opponents.

Mab: Well, Harry got himself fucked real good this time, literally and otherwise. And he said it's been a while too. 

This is gonna be very interesting as she will be basically an upgraded version of Lash/Lasciel that is not limited to Harry's self control. But as Grampa McCoy said to Harry, she can do a lot of things to him but make decisions for him. So I say Harry may be the one to influence her a tiny bit but ultimately she will go crazy about some of the feats he is gonna pull as Winter Knight and eventually make him "retire". Probably by trying to kill him, but of course he will endure, and she will desist somehow.

Odin: 

Ebenezar: I FUCKING KNEW IT. This also reduces the secret possibility that he is really the head of the Black Council that a lot of people were contemplating. 

Sanya: This guy needs more exposure. What a wonderful badass ally. After what happened with Shiro, I have faith he will remain a permanent living ally.

Blue Beetle: R.I.P You Magnificent Piece of German Automotive Engineering. 

Erlking: Gonna be badass again in his next appearance. And something tells me he won't stay an adversary in most capacities of the word.

Major Gen. Toot-Toot "Pizza or Death/Full Metal Jacket" Minimus: This kid is gonna be a huge ace in the hole down the line towards the series conclusion. He's already grown another 3 inches since TurnCoat, standing a proud 15 inches and is the largest dewdrop fairy Harry has ever seen. Plus with that whole theme in the Nevernever that the more believers and followers you have, the more power you wield. Well, The Great Za Lord's Army is gonna be deadly by the time this is all said and done. Plus this mofo has the balls to protect Harry against the Shagnasty when he was only 12 inches tall in comparison. He's gonna do something even more crazy during Harry's next Casebook.

Susan: Man, what a beautifully built character. Very simple but still developed in a subtle way. A lot people found her annoying early in the series, but looking back now with the knowledge we have, that was deliberate. She was setup in a way to advance Harry's character tenfold with what she did in this book. She basically changed EVERYTHING that will happen from now on due to her final act. R.I.P

Maggie: No matter what Harry says, we won't see the last of her by a long shot. Unlike his own childhood, something tells me she WILL have her father around more often than he thinks he will. 

Karen: Damn, Harry was so close. Butcher needs to stop teasing. This is just a sign that her and Harry are the end game for each other. And will most likely be some sort of long living semi-mortals by the end of this series. Maggie needs siblings.

Mouse: "Change them back, you bitch!"  
Butcher will be considered a genius when he expands on this badass temple dog's speaking ability and Harry's definite future interactions with his best canine pal.

Mister: The cat will come back, the very next dayBook. 

Cliffhanger for Harry: This was so out of left field that even I didn't see it coming. I originally was happy at the possibility of him and Murph having some time together and was totally expecting Mab to be part of the last few paragraphs. Basically coming to collect Harry(after some "recreational activities"  with Karen) with some very quotable dialogue. 

HUGE MINDFUCK!

Somebody obviously realizes the badass power and potential increase in deadliness Harry achieved during Changes, and wants him ended now instead of waiting for another level up. However, I believe this has just tipped the scale in Harry's favour. Obviously he can't stay dead and this will somehow end up making him Semi-Immortal in a certain capacity. That plus I would love to have some elements of Harry coming back from the Underworld in the next book. If Odin was showcased in this book, don't rule out a Hades-esque character down the line.

I can't wait for the "45 Minutes" Aftermath Epilogue for Changes coming out this November as a special feature of the Sidestory Anthology that will be released.

I also love that there will be possibly another 8 Casebooks(Butcher says he will have around 20-21 total) PLUS the concluding Apocalypse Trilogy that I hope goes like this:

Stars and Stone
Empty Night
Hell's Bells

P.S: Stevie Douglas was either hired by the Eebs couple to finish off Harry since they cannot enter Holy Ground, plus under the ruse that he would go after Susan, be trapped for their final assault at the FBI Building in case Stevie failed. Or possibly Martin setting up Harry to "turn" on Susan to somehow still achieve the final part of his plan that Harry ended up accomplishing anyways. He was in close proximity to Susan the whole time so getting the necessary ingredients to use her image wouldn't be hard.

There is also the possibility that it was someone else altogether, and totally related to the assassination of Harry at the end of the book. I am hoping this is the latter but it was probably the Eebs.


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## Bergelmir (Apr 4, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _about the ending of Changes_ 



Did you get a Quantum Leap vibe from the ending? I mean, its probably more likely that he blacked out and woke up elsewhere. But I can't shake the feeling that he got teleported or time traveled somewhere right after he got shot...


----------



## dreams lie (Apr 4, 2010)

Guys, spoilers already?  I thought it was not going to be out until much longer.  

Also, I just realized Injun Joe is also a character from Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer.  FFFFFF I wonder if he is going to backstab everyone.


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 4, 2010)

Yarp. Spoilers be haunting these parts here. Apparently the e-book version is out, and Amazon screwed up by sending me my copy early. 


*Spoiler*: _another Changes musing_ 



I forgot to mention before, but wasn't Molly amazing? She's really come a long way. Her veiling was crazy impressive.


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## Detective (Apr 4, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: _about the ending of Changes_
> 
> 
> 
> Did you get a Quantum Leap vibe from the ending? I mean, its probably more likely that he blacked out and woke up elsewhere. But I can't shake the feeling that he got teleported or time traveled somewhere right after he got shot...





*Spoiler*: _Last Lines of Chapter 49 - Do Not Click Unless You Have Read The Book Already_ 





> I came out of the cabin and into the early-afternoon sun, quivering with pleasant tension and tired and haunted?and hopeful. I shielded my eyes against the sun and studied the city?s skyline.
> My foot slipped a little, and I nearly lost my balance, just as something smacked into the wall of the cabin behind me, a sharp popping sound, like a rock thrown against a wooden fence. I turned, and it felt slow for some reason. I looked at the Water Beetle?s cabin wall, bulkhead, whatever, behind me and thought, Who splattered red paint on my boat?
> And then my left leg started to fold all by itself.
> I looked down at a hole in my shirt, just to the left of my sternum.
> ...



I disagree that he just blacked out but agree that he was teleported/built-in Way Line'd to another location.

Two things happened, at least in my opinion. Harry got a really clean shot right through his body that caused a lot of exit splatter. I had originally thought it wasn't as bad as it sounded because of his foot slipping(thus saving him from instant death) but only for a second. He slipped because of the initial impact that tore through him, then noticed the residue behind him.

After that, while in the water, he was pretty much dead. Since the story is in the first person narrative, Harry was describing his soul attempting to move onto the afterlife(because he was dead) with the whole classic "Light At The End Of The Tunnel" description. The "Die Alone" comment was obviously a throwback to Cassius and would only make sense in the context that it would be repeated as Harry died.

However, the "Hush Now" is the backup contingency someone seems to have built in case Harry died before doing what he was destined to accomplish. My theory is that his mother worked some crazy ass protective magic to guard him(under certain conditions) if she was never there for him. And now he has a second shot at life, conveniently canceling Cassius' Death Curse as its kind of a moot point now that Harry has already fulfilled it by dying alone.

The alternative is another super power just revived Harry, but the point about canceling Cassius' curse still stands. He won't die alone again.






dreams lie said:


> Guys, spoilers already?  I thought it was not going to be out until much longer.
> 
> Also, I just realized Injun Joe is also a character from Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer.  FFFFFF I wonder if he is going to backstab everyone.



Got your message. Check your PMs.

*jkingler:* You got mail.


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## Bergelmir (Apr 4, 2010)

Superman said:


> *Spoiler*: _Last Lines of Chapter 49 - Do Not Click Unless You Have Read The Book Already_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I hadn't even considered that he might have actually died. That would be really interesting. This brings up another point from the "Warrior" short story. Uriel had made a side comment that had the implication that Harry might one day be able to see (or at least understand) all the various levels of the fight between good and evil. And we already know from Harry's Dad's visit that death widens your perspective and potentially knowledge of reality.

Supposing Harry did indeed die, and was brought back to life. Maybe Harry comes back with this death-knowledge or death-perspective?


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 4, 2010)

Wait so Odin, appears in this book? i havn't gotten that far into yet but just asking?


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## Detective (Apr 4, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> Wait so Odin, appears in this book? i havn't gotten that far into yet but just asking?




*Spoiler*: __ 



There is a character named Donar Vadderung, who is the CEO of Monoc Securities. He was mentioned previously in White Knight when Johnny Marcone took the offer that Harry gave him to become a Freeholding Lord under the Unseelie Accords, a group that partially governs the magical world. 

Donar Vadderung can be roughly translated to Father of Thor. The other previous clues were Marcone's personal bodyguard, Ms. Gard. Who is eerily similar to that of a Valkyrie. A warrior of Odin in the legend.

Monoc is possibly a combination of Mono from Greek and Oculus from Latin. It basically means "One Eye". And Odin's signature feature in mythology was having a "Blind Eye That Sees All".

Wotan, who *Berg* mentioned a few posts above, is the Germanic name for the Norse God. Kinda like how Jupiter is the Roman name for Zeus, who is the Greek equivalent.

I really hope all this means that Thor is gonna make an epic appearance somewhere down the line.


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## dreams lie (Apr 4, 2010)

While I felt that Jim had crammed way too many corny jokes/nerdy references this time, I never lost interest in the book.  It got sadly predictable by the end, but the delivery was still magnificent.


*Spoiler*: _Last Chapter_ 



It seem fairly obvious Mab is going to revive him.  If that is not the case, someone rescues him, and he loses a great deal of power in the revival.  He has been buffed beyond belief, and either it is going to be temporary or Mab is going to make his life even more difficult to compensate.





*Spoiler*: _Predictable Moments_ 



The second Bob told us that the weapon was already primed, I knew that they were going to use it against the vampires.  I just never saw Susan being used as the sacrifice. 

I thought it was clear as day that he was going to win the duel without any effort.  The King and his fellas was going to bullshit him just because it is never that easy.  If he had expended too much power or was wounded too heavily in the process, he would not stand a chance.

Unless his godmother was pulling bullshit God powers out of thin air at the end, I awaited the White Council's counterattack to save them all.  The Grey Council's response is close enough.





*Spoiler*: _Bullshit Twists_ 



Harry having sex with a fairy queen.  Seriously.  What the fuck.

Butters living.  Especially after a metaphor comparing his descent to that of a slaughtered cow.  

The entire concept of bloodline magic.  It is simply beyond comprehension.  How exactly would it hurt cousins of the sacrifice?  I see no reason for Maggie's death to hurt Thomas.  It would go upwards through each and every ancestor and then downwards into each and every progeny?  If that is the case, that sacrifice would have wiped off the entire human race.


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## Bergelmir (Apr 4, 2010)

dreams lie said:


> *Spoiler*: _Predictable Moments_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



See, I was thinking along the same lines, but only that Arianna was going to be sacrificed in the end. Which would wipe out the upper echelon of the Red Court, and leave the weaker Rampires to be dealt with. Never would I have thought that the entire Red Court would be wiped out.






> *Spoiler*: _Bullshit Twists_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



The bloodline magic. It only goes upwards, which is why using the youngest member of a family was an important factor. It affects Thomas because the spell affects "parents, brothers, and sisters". So once it killed Harry, it would kill his "parents, brothers, and sisters", under which Thomas falls under.

If Harry was sacrificed, Maggie wouldn't have been affected by the spell. Assuming I read the text correctly.


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## dreams lie (Apr 4, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> See, I was thinking along the same lines, but only that Arianna was going to be sacrificed in the end. Which would wipe out the upper echelon of the Red Court, and leave the weaker Rampires to be dealt with. Never would I have thought that the entire Red Court would be wiped out.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Well, I was assuming that the Merlin was coming to the rescue for 95% of the book ever since he said "we will exterminate every single last one of them".  And I assumed that the bloodline curse was much stronger than it turned out to be.  






> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



You read it correctly.  I just assumed that it would go up to Harry, then all his dad's relatives and his mom's relatives.  From there, all their...

Wait, never mind.  I see where this is going.


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## Bergelmir (Apr 5, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 



You know what really cracked me up about the bloodline curse? Its exactly the same as the bloodline curse that Vaarsuvius uses in the Order of the Stick webcomic. Under similar situations too. I don't know if Jim had always planned this book this way or if he was making a nod to OotS, but I liked it.


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## Magnum Miracles (Apr 5, 2010)

In Summer Knight, I got to where Harry has met the White Council for his actions in _Grave Peril_. Harry has a hotter temper than ever.


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## dreams lie (Apr 5, 2010)

My favorite book of the series remains the first one I read:  White Night.  Small Favors was decent, and Turncoat was incredibly suspenseful, but nothing compares.  Changes does not even come close.


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## Yakushi Kabuto (Apr 6, 2010)

I've only read the first book out of this series but I did enjoy it. That whole class of books involving hardened guys who seem more suitable for real world detective work instead of working with magic is something I find to be really attractive. I adored Bob from the start.


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## Magnum Miracles (Apr 6, 2010)

Yakushi Kabuto said:


> I've only read the first book out of this series but I did enjoy it. That whole class of books involving hardened guys who seem more suitable for real world detective work instead of working with magic is something I find to be really attractive. I adored Bob from the start.


Bob is the funniest character in the books so far.With all his perverted jokes and smartass remarks.


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## dreams lie (Apr 6, 2010)

I like Marcone.   Evil badass with a heart of gold.


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## Bergelmir (Apr 7, 2010)

Nothing can top Sanya, for me. 
*Spoiler*: _don't wanna spoil readers still behind Death Masks_ 



Agnostic warrior of God who has actually met the Archangel Michael, and still thinks that the supernatural are a bunch of aliens, or that he's dreaming all this? Hell yeah.


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## Detective (Apr 7, 2010)

As the titular character and the reason I read these books since he always comes up with some crazy strategy/tactics against the odds in every new addition to the series, Harry is my favourite. However, I can't get enough of Bob, Butters, Mouse, Molly, Toot-Toot & Miami ViceThomas anytime they can get some pages devoted to them.



			
				dreams lie said:
			
		

> I like Marcone. Evil badass with a heart of gold.



The second sentence in the above mentioned quote shouldn't make any sense at all in most books, but it feels so right in the Dresdenverse. Marcone is the ultimate goodfella of the modern age.


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## Skandranan (Apr 7, 2010)

Finished Changes at 2:00AM in the morning; mind is thoroughly blown. My thoughts:


*Spoiler*: __ 



-Mouse calling Lea a bitch and threatening to bite her ass off = win.
-Everything that Sanya says in the entire series = win.
-Odin taking down Harry with his will = win.
-Ebenezer killing several hundred baddies with one spell = win.
-No more Red Court = win.
-So with no office, no apartment and none of his equipment will Harry set up shop on Demonreach? It's a long ways away from everything, but with his newfound knowledge of the Ways he should be able to get to wherever he needs to go fairly quickly.
-If Harry actually dies and then is brought back in some way via Uriel or some other supernatural powerhouse, does that mean that he'll be free of the mantle of the Winter Knight? Assuming that said supernatural powerhouse is not Mab, of course.


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## Chatulio (Apr 7, 2010)

Just finished changes found it too be just awesome as expected

*Spoiler*: __ 




Although it seems that being winter knight doesn't have that many abilities it was what ice magic, increased physical ability ,plus a mana tap through Mab?


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## dreams lie (Apr 7, 2010)

Superman said:


> The second sentence in the above mentioned quote shouldn't make any sense at all in most books, but it feels so right in the Dresdenverse. Marcone is the ultimate goodfella of the modern age.



I agree.  His universe is made of so many wonderful shades of grey and black, that you find the vast majority of the monsters and demons sympathetic.


*Spoiler*: _Several Spoilers_ 



I personally do not know if I ever want Dresden to follow up on his word and kill off Marcone (or if he will even get the chance).  He is a necessary evil that has drastically lowered violence, and one who safeguards children nevertheless.  It was truly heartwarming to see him take care of that little girl shot in the driveby or Ivy in Turncoat.




Harry is a fine protagonist, and Thomas is interesting in his own way, but I would love a novella or short story with Marcone as the main character.



			
				Chatulio said:
			
		

> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Although it seems that being winter knight doesn't have that many abilities it was what ice magic, increased physical ability ,plus a mana tap through Mab?




*Spoiler*: __ 



He also found himself with a larger reserve of power (which is completely unnecessary considering how much he had in the first place), but yeah, I was expecting much more ice magic than that.  Besides, ice magic just seems out of place considering that this is Harry we are talking about.  I was thinking of him using his ability to withdraw heat to make one hell of an inferno during his duel, but :/.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 7, 2010)

Lol at the Centipede battle and Bob's comment on when it regenerated into two different ones.

the whole sequence almost made me think of the old Zork games.


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## Chatulio (Apr 8, 2010)

dreams lie said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> He also found himself with a larger reserve of power (which is completely unnecessary considering how much he had in the first place), but yeah, I was expecting much more ice magic than that.  Besides, ice magic just seems out of place considering that this is Harry we are talking about.  I was thinking of him using his ability to withdraw heat to make one hell of an inferno during his duel, but :/.




*Spoiler*: __ 



It may be he hasn't grown into them yet But i guess its meant to show off his potential as his Fairy godmother pointed out that using two elements on the opposite sides of the spectrum is supposed to be difficult.


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## dreams lie (Apr 8, 2010)

Chatulio said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> It may be he hasn't grown into them yet But i guess its meant to show off his potential as his Fairy godmother pointed out that using two elements on the opposite sides of the spectrum is supposed to be difficult.




*Spoiler*: __ 



You missed my point.  I was expecting Harry to stick with his fire magic, using the powers of the winter knight only to supplement what he already had...  I just do not like the vibe of our favorite arsonist with a new arsenal of _ice_ based magic.


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## Bergelmir (Apr 8, 2010)

So after a reread of Changes...


*Spoiler*: __ 



The whole Red King and his fracking crazy amount of power. It got me thinking... Morgan must have been one hell of a beast. I know he was probably among the strongest of the Wardens, but god damn. He almost took out the Red King during the Vampire war, if I remember correctly. He ranks so much higher in my mind after reading this book.




Also, minor spoiler that Jim apparently revealed at a book signing: The title of book 13 is going to be 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Ghost Story


.

EDIT: 





dreams lie said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> You missed my point.  I was expecting Harry to stick with his fire magic, using the powers of the winter knight only to supplement what he already had...  I just do not like the vibe of our favorite arsonist with a new arsenal of _ice_ based magic.




*Spoiler*: __ 



He didn't really show off much ice based magic, right? There was the one moment he was showing off outside the temple. And that was only to make the Rampires understand how dangerous he was. Which was ice magic, yes, but there was a reason for it other than "kill vamps".

And the again during the duel. He condensed the mist and sucked the heat out of it to form the icicles. And then hurled it at Arianna. Sounds like Wind magic to condense the mist, Fire to suck the heat out, and Force to hurl it.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 8, 2010)

So from what Odin is saying, when people stop worshipping the Gods, the Gods go to sleep? or lose thier memory? I wonder if the Zues and the Olympians are walking around like that with no memory of what they once were...that's if they existed in the Dresden universe.


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## Detective (Apr 8, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> Also, minor spoiler that Jim apparently revealed at a book signing: The title of book 13 is going to be
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



So my theory of Harry coming back from the Underworld during the next book and a somewhat encounter with a Hades-esque figure wouldn't be too out of the realm of possibility? The oncoming sound of a training at the end of Changes may be alluding to a journey into the afterlife.






> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think this book was just a small preview of his newfound powerset and I don't think it's a bad idea like *dreams lie* stated a few posts above. Harry is gonna need all the offensive and defensive capabilities he can get if he is gonna continue to climb up the food chain against bigger and more semi-immortal/divine opponents.

It's not going to effect his character negatively, because the whole draw of him is that he uses his skills in the most MacGyver-esque creative ways.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 9, 2010)

Superman said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> *So my theory of Harry coming back from the Underworld during the next book and a somewhat encounter with a Hades-esque figure wouldn't be too out of the realm of possibility? The oncoming sound of a training at the end of Changes may be alluding to a journey into the afterlife*.



Considering how the Norse gods are apparently only ones really active now, we might be seeing Hela instead of Hades, but we can always hope. Maybe we'll get straight up Death though, I don't think we've seen the reaper in any of the books.


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## Chatulio (Apr 9, 2010)

dreams lie said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> You missed my point.  I was expecting Harry to stick with his fire magic, using the powers of the winter knight only to supplement what he already had...  I just do not like the vibe of our favorite arsonist with a new arsenal of _ice_ based magic.



*Spoiler*: __ 




No i saw where you where coming from (personally he should have stuck with fire) I just wanted to point out from a character point that its him expanding his power base. Though it would be freaking sweet if that its not really ice control but more thermal in that he with practices can steal heat from his enemies freezing the solid from the inside out. Along with what you pointed out.




It doesn't have to just be Norse or Greek , I mean it could be Anubis/Osiris, Izanami(Shinto), Santa Muerte (Mexican), or we could his version of Death that's similar to the on from the endless.


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## Bergelmir (Apr 9, 2010)

Chatulio said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would die of fangasms if Butcher did that. That would be absolutely fantastic.


Also, I don't know if any of you are dice-and-paper gamers, but the Dresden Files RPG is up for pre-orders. You get a free pdf copy if you pre-order.  Although, you can probably find it somewhere on the net too. Its pretty neat. Cool system, seems easy to use, its even got new lore. /end advertisement


----------



## Detective (Apr 9, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> The whole Red King and his fracking crazy amount of power. It got me thinking... Morgan must have been one hell of a beast. I know he was probably among the strongest of the Wardens, but god damn. He almost took out the Red King during the Vampire war, if I remember correctly. He ranks so much higher in my mind after reading this book.




*Spoiler*: __ 



I really liked what Morgan did as a character in this series and what he brought to the table but Harry was fighting the Red King and his Inner Circle in the location with the highest concentration of their power.  Morgan got within 20 feet of the Red King in the middle of a what would have been a very frantic, easily distracted, raging battle in the Nevernever. 




Does anyone wonder if the constant mention of Harry's supply of 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Ghost Dust


 will be of any importance during the next book. It can't have been a coincidence that it was mentioned as much as it was.

Like I mentioned on the previous page, can't wait for the Side Jobs anthology book coming out in October with Karin Murphy's POV of the "45 Minutes Later Aftermath" of what went down at the end of Changes. It will help ease the wait for next April's book.


----------



## Skandranan (Apr 9, 2010)

Confirmed on the official Jim Butcher forums by one of Jim's trusted beta readers that the next book in the series will be called 
*Spoiler*: __ 



_Ghost Story_


So you may be on to something there with the ghost dust, Superman.


----------



## Nicodemus (Apr 9, 2010)

Finished the books, and now I feel like the awesome centers in my brain got raped. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



I really don't think the winter knight position is a bad thing. Harry is going up against tougher and tougher opponents now, and the destruction of most of his worldly possessions (the BB, his office) show that he's moving out of the zone we've grown used to seeing him in and into the wider world of magic. The change is sudden, but I like it. I mean, could you really take 23-25 books of Harry the PI?


----------



## jkingler (Apr 10, 2010)

Mind Blown. Wow.

Awesome shit:

*Spoiler*: __ 




-Mouse talking, saying he won Harry.
-Karrin with Fide.
-Blackstaff/Grampstaff.
-Redsnuff.
-Odin!
-Erl.
-"If Harry actually dies and then is brought back..." does he get out of his Winter Knight contract...indeed, good question. Also, does this remove Cassius' death curse?



There was way more awesome than that, but that's my initial holyshitshare.


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 10, 2010)

Changes Q&A with Jim

Part 1: Link removed
Part 2: Link removed
Part 3: Link removed
Part 4: Link removed
Part 5: Link removed
Part 6: Link removed


His haircut makes him look exactly like how I've always envisioned Butters.


----------



## jkingler (Apr 10, 2010)

Damn you, Butcher. Saying Mouse won't get a POV story...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Apr 11, 2010)

Holy shit...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Harry's dead...damn now I can't wait til the next book


----------



## dreams lie (Apr 11, 2010)

Jim just looks like every other D&D player out there from the back cover.  The video makes him look like your everyday average guy.  Quite the transformation.


----------



## Jazzmatazz (Apr 16, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Man, that. Was. Epic. I just finished it and I would've sworn that Harry was going to wake up in the future after subconsciously opening a Way, somehow going into some super wizard slumber/healing thing, and come out to find a lot of time has passed, even if he might've spent a short time there. After all, he did tell Susan that someone once partied overnight with the Fae and came back 100 years on the future.

But thinking about the ghost dust thing (which I don't know anything about since the first Dresden book I've read was White Night), it's quite possible.

Can't wait to find out who shot him, though my money's on either Kincaid or the guy from Small Favor iirc that's the Summer Knight.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Apr 16, 2010)

Eman5805 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Could have been Fix, but I doubt it, I think it's somebody Rudolph hired to be honest. 

also lol Army of Darkness reference...would have been funny considering Butcher said he had that on the DVR when he righting this.


----------



## C. Hook (Apr 16, 2010)

Sounds like I should buy Changes, eh?

Don't worry, I haven't clicked on a spoiler. But the general reaction seems to be :amazed


----------



## Emperor Joker (Apr 16, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> Sounds like I should buy Changes, eh?
> 
> Don't worry, I haven't clicked on a spoiler. But the general reaction seems to be :amazed



I'm surprised you haven't all ready. but yes buy it


----------



## Nae'blis (Apr 16, 2010)

isn't grave peril where the series supposedly takes a form of its own? I'm not enjoying it as much as the previous two.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Apr 16, 2010)

Nae'blis said:


> isn't grave peril where the series supposedly takes a form of its own? I'm not enjoying it as much as the previous two.



That would be Summer Knight in my opinion. Grave Peril is just where it starts to break away.


----------



## Detective (Apr 16, 2010)

jkingler said:


> Damn you, Butcher. Saying Mouse won't get a POV story...



The man already has a large task ahead of him by planning to write 22-24 Casebooks + a concluding trilogy. If he were to write a story from Mouse's POV, that's another 7 books right there. He needs a life outside of Dresden. 

BTW, for those of you interested, apparently there was another Q&A session with Jim Butcher on April 14th. Here is one of many answers given:


*Spoiler*: __ 





175. Comment by Jim Butcher ? April 14 said:


> ?In most, if not all of the previous short stories/novellas you could easily miss them without missing anything in the main books, will this hold true for Aftermath? Yes I am trying to gauge how important the story is so that I can speculate on what will happen in Ghost Story?
> 
> If you read ?Aftermath? it should reduce some of the system shock that?s going to happen in Ghost Story.
> 
> The events of Changes? well, /changed/ /everything/ in the story world. You get to see the first of many, many dominoes starting to fall in ?Aftermath.?


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 17, 2010)

Superman said:


> The man already has a large task ahead of him by planning to write 22-24 Casebooks + a concluding trilogy. If he were to write a story from Mouse's POV, that's another 7 books right there. He needs a life outside of Dresden.
> 
> BTW, for those of you interested, apparently there was another Q&A session with Jim Butcher on April 14th. Here is one of many answers given:




*Spoiler*: __ 



...because Changes wasn't enough of a system shock, apparently. I do believe my brain will be utterly annihilated next year.　

Something just struck me about Ghost Story. Jim has repeatedly said that Justin is dead and will not be rezzed. But if Harry is going to be dead... Justin might make an appearance! Which would be really neat.


----------



## Tekkenman11 (Apr 19, 2010)

I've seen this series tossed around the forums, is it a good read? I'm into like Harry Potter-Dan Brown-LOTR style books. My range is large so would this book possibly intrigue me?


----------



## jkingler (Apr 19, 2010)

Yes. Also, yes.


----------



## Detective (Apr 19, 2010)

Tekkenman11 said:


> I've seen this series tossed around the forums, is it a good read? I'm into like Harry Potter-Dan Brown-LOTR style books. My range is large so would this book possibly intrigue me?



Yes x Infinity.

The old tagline that many used to throw onto this series was Harry Potter for Adults. But that was kind of unfair to Dresden because while very good and similar in a Wizarding World-esque style, there was no way Potter would ever be as thrilling, suspenseful, complex or hardcore as Dresden. The Universe is also ridiculously huge and ever expanding.

People who post in this thread, give *Tekkenman11* an example of what formula Dresden is basically made of. 

For me, it's:

Dirty Harry(Heh) + Film Noir + Die Hard + MacGyver  + Harry Potter + John Woo Action Films + Modern Urban Fantasy x 1,000, 000 Badass Points.

Take that, spread it across 12 current novels(# 13 is next year) and eventually into a potential collection of 22-24 Casebooks + a Final Trilogy and you may get the most under rated yet kick-ass modern magic fantasy in recent history.

But that's just my opinion.


----------



## Nicodemus (Apr 19, 2010)

Detective said:


> Yes x Infinity.
> 
> The old tagline that many used to throw onto this series was Harry Potter for Adults. But that was kind of unfair to Dresden because while very good and similar in a Wizarding World-esque style, there was no way Potter would ever be as thrilling, suspenseful, complex or hardcore as Dresden. The Universe is also ridiculously huge and ever expanding.
> 
> ...



Summed up, the Dresden Files is the better than Sex.


----------



## Tekkenman11 (Apr 20, 2010)

Nicodemus said:


> Summed up, the Dresden Files is the better than Sex.







Detective said:


> People who post in this thread, give *Tekkenman11* an example of what formula Dresden is basically made of.
> 
> For me, it's:
> 
> ...


----------



## C. Hook (Apr 22, 2010)

To give an idea of how good the book series is, in one book, Dresden kills someone with a turkey dropped out of an airplane. No, you did not misread that.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Jul 28, 2010)

Bumped because I have finally gotten a hold of Changes.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Just got to the part where the FBI busted into Dresden's place.  He opened a way to the Nevernever,and fought a fucking Gigapede. I can't believe Dresden threw poor Bob down that hole .


----------



## Detective (Aug 1, 2010)

_Here Lies Harry Dresden
He Died Doing The Right Thing_​
March 2011 cannot come soon enough.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Aug 2, 2010)

Here's the summary of Ghost Story(spoiler for those who have not read Changes yet!)

*Spoiler*: __ 





> Harry Dresden forgot his own golden rule: magic - it can get a guy killed. Which didn't help when he clashed with unknown assailants intent on his murder. And though Harry's continued existence is now in some doubt, this doesn't mean Chicago's resident professional wizard can rest in peace. Trapped in a realm that is not quite here, yet not quite anywhere else, Harry learns that three of his loved ones are in mortal danger. Only by discovering his assailant's identity can he save his friends, bring criminal elements to justice, and move on before he becomes trapped in his own unending nightmare. It would just be easier if he knew which friends were at risk. And had a (working) crystal ball. And had access to his magic. Instead, he is unable to interact with the physical world - invisible and inaudible to all but the most specialised of magical talents. He's also far from the only silent presence roaming Chicago's alleys. Heck, he put some of them there himself. Only now, they're looking for payback.






Sounds pretty fucking epic,huh guys?


----------



## Nimander (Aug 2, 2010)

Yes, I am indeed looking forward to March '11.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 2, 2010)

Lincoln Rhyme said:


> Here's the summary of Ghost Story(spoiler for those who have not read Changes yet!)
> 
> 
> Sounds pretty fucking epic,huh guys?



pek

This also means we'll probably get Mortimer Lindquist as the sidekick for this book.


----------



## Bluebeard (Aug 2, 2010)

Bob is going to be Harry's main sidekick in this one apparently, but yeah, Mort will probably play a big role.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 2, 2010)

Bob as the sidekick works too.

I wonder if we'll get a personality shift with Bob. Since Bob apparently takes on traits of his master, Harry's death would leave him in subservience to Lea, right? Or Mab, if the White Knights possessions are under her domain as well. Or maybe Molly, if Lea gave the skull to her.

Hell, if Mab has the skull, maybe we'll find out what Bob did to piss her off way back when.


----------



## Bergelmir (Mar 3, 2011)

Bit of a thread necro. (and double post). But I thought I would drop this off for you guys.

Ghost Story Chapter 1:


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Mar 8, 2011)

I read the first chapter of Ghost Story two days ago. Dresden and humor do not part in death apparently .


----------



## dream (Mar 8, 2011)

Lincoln Rhyme said:


> I read the first chapter of Ghost Story two days ago. Dresden and humor do not part in death apparently .



Dresden will never lose his humor.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Mar 8, 2011)

Eternal Fail said:


> Dresden will never lose his humor.


LIke when he made jokes about some demons in Changes by telling them what kind of hand-job they could give .


----------



## dream (Mar 8, 2011)

Can't wait for him to meet God.  Then he'll personally have a chance to deliver the bill.  :ho


----------



## Butcher (Mar 8, 2011)

Got done with _Changes_ last month, and loved it.

Dresden is my second favorite character of all time .


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 21, 2011)

Guess whats finally starting to come out? 

Ghost Story chapter 2: Chapter 2


----------



## Detective (Jun 21, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> Guess whats finally starting to come out?
> 
> Ghost Story chapter 2: Chapter 2



My body is ready for July 26th, 2011. My question to you, my friend, is yours?


----------



## dream (Jun 22, 2011)

I can't wait to see how Dresden regains his body, I'm sure the Butcher won't disappoint.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 22, 2011)

Detective said:


> My body is ready for July 26th, 2011. My question to you, my friend, is yours?



No. It is not. My body is going to explode from the sheer awesomeness. And it will be glorious. 



Eternal Fail said:


> I can't wait to see how Dresden regains his body, I'm sure the Butcher won't disappoint.


I'm curious to see if Dresden will use Kemmler's necromancy, seeing as he's memorized the Word of Kemmler. And Kemmler did come back from being proper killed a few times.

But yeah, this is going to be fantastic.


----------



## dream (Jun 22, 2011)

I don't think that he'll use Kemmler's stuff, probably something else.  What that might be I'm not sure.



> And Kemmler did come back from being proper killed a few times.



I thought that he was just a tricky bastard that managed to make it seem like he died when in fact he escaped every time that the Council thought he was dead?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 22, 2011)

Its explicitly stated that the White Council proper killed Kemmler several times. And he came back each time. Until they managed to do away with him for good in World War II.


----------



## dream (Jun 22, 2011)

Just checked and you are right.  Memory is fading a bit.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 22, 2011)

Ah, thats normal. Dead Beat is my favourite of the series, so I reread that book way too often. Thats all.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Jun 22, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> Ah, thats normal. Dead Beat is my favourite of the series, so I reread that book way too often. Thats all.


Dead Beat is also my favorite of the series.

Oh,and did anybody see that comment Dresden made about calling Karrin Murphy,Karrie?

"Anyone else had to be a Terminator. From Krypton."

Oh, how I love Dresden .


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 22, 2011)

I can't wait to see Dresden call Murphy "Karrie" when he comes back to life. The shitstorm will be hilarious.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Jun 22, 2011)

Ya know, I was watching Serenity the other day,and I couldn't help but notice that Nathan Fillion would make a kick ass Harry Dresden .


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 23, 2011)

Mmmm, I think he's too... jolly.? Too happy? He'd get close though. All he needs is to grow 4-5 feet more.

I thought Paul Blackthorne was spot on as Harry, in attitude at least. I liked his version of Harry.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 25, 2011)

Man I can't wait for this new novel.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 25, 2011)

One more month , I cant wait...I want it now!


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 25, 2011)

3 more days until Chapter 3!

Although apparently there is a video clip on the net of when Jim read the first 4 chapters at some dinner party thing. Haven't found it yet, though.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 26, 2011)

If you find that vid be sure to post it.

I need my dresden fix.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 26, 2011)

I haven't found the video clip, but I did find a post on Jim's forum that has a summary of the chapters: .

I'm not going to read the post, but if you don't mind summary format, go ahead and take a look.


----------



## dream (Jun 28, 2011)

The third preview chapter is out on Jim's site.

Chapter 2


*Spoiler*: __ 



Pretty interesting chapter.  We have a hint of how Dresden will fight in the coming chapter.  The new character that was introduced is alright I suppose.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 28, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Just alright? Memory bulleting, gunslinging, Knight of the Colonial army Stu is pretty awesome.  

Its interesting to note that Harry is pure memory now. An actual thoughtform. Its neat. I guess all that soulfire practice is going to come into use here.


----------



## Detective (Jul 3, 2011)

23 Days Remaining...

I think we should just post the hell out of this thread in the coming days to boost the anticipation. 

BTW, I can't wait till the production rights to the ill fated Dresden TV series runs out, so that this series can finally be given a proper shot to be adapted for the big screen. I KNOW it can fill in the void that is going to be left behind by the conclusion of the Potter series. Between the two of them, I think we all know who the real badass wizard is.

Besides, eventually having 21-24 novels worth of material + an apocalyptic ending trilogy to build scripts from is a writer's dream.

P.S: Just like with Changes, if a certain someone(who shall remain anonymous) gets his hands on a digital copy of Ghost Story before the official release date, would anyone like to have a certain message sent their way to notify?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 3, 2011)

I'd certainly like a movie series for Dresden, it could work out if they'd actually do the series right this time.


----------



## Butcher (Jul 3, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I'd certainly like a movie series for Dresden, it could work out if they'd actually do the series right this time.


Who would play Dresden though?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 3, 2011)

Detective said:


> 23 Days Remaining...
> 
> I think we should just post the hell out of this thread in the coming days to boost the anticipation.
> 
> ...



Its already run out. The rights have reverted to Jim.


----------



## Detective (Jul 3, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> Its already run out. The rights have reverted to Jim.



This quote is relevant to my interests. 

P.S: J.J Abrams, Edgar Wright or Christopher Nolan, if your lurking out there, please adapt this series into a film franchise.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 3, 2011)

A film franchise would be bonkers. If they managed to crank out a movie a year, it would still take 23 years. 

I think hour long TV episodes are much better. They could do about 2-3 episodes per book, depending on the length. And around 12 episodes a year. It would still need a fairly large budget from Summer Knight onwards though.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Jul 4, 2011)

Detective said:


> 23 Days Remaining...
> 
> I think we should just post the hell out of this thread in the coming days to boost the anticipation.
> 
> ...


 I think I just came .

Hopefully Bob will be along for the ride then as well with Dresden in that post-apocalyptic trilogy.


----------



## dream (Jul 4, 2011)

> Hopefully Bob will be along for the ride then as well with Dresden in that post-apocalyptic trilogy.



Don't worry on that front, Bob has better chances than most of being with Dresden by the end.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 4, 2011)

Hopefully. I have this fear that now that Harry is the Winter Knight, Mab is finally going to get her revenge on Bob.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Jul 4, 2011)

Eternal Fail said:


> Don't worry on that front, Bob has better chances than most of being with Dresden by the end.


 Just imagine,Dresden with his quick wit and badassenry,combined with Bob's sex jokes in world that has ended=bromance with comedy gold .


----------



## Platinum (Jul 4, 2011)

Yeah I think Dresden getting an HBO Series would be better than a movie series. Give it the Game of Thrones Treatment.

It would be pretty hard for 20 + films to be made so I think that's out of the question.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 4, 2011)

Platinum said:


> Yeah I think Dresden getting an HBO Series would be better than a movie series. Give it the Game of Thrones Treatment.
> 
> It would be pretty hard for 20 + films to be made so I think that's out of the question.



One thing I would love about a film franchise are endings like Changes. Imagine watching Changes in the theater with people who only follow the movies. It would be like the ending of Harry Potter 6. The rage would be delicious.


----------



## Platinum (Jul 4, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> One thing I would love about a film franchise are endings like Changes. Imagine watching Changes in the theater with people who only follow the movies. It would be like the ending of Harry Potter 6. The rage would be delicious.



I imagine Grave Peril would have that same effect on people as well.


----------



## dream (Jul 4, 2011)

> The rage would be delicious.



Rage?  More like cheering.  Delicious plot twist was delicious.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 5, 2011)

Last teaser chapter is out: Link removed

EDIT: 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Snow in May? Interesting. It seems that Mab might finally be getting the better of Titania. The NeverNever must in chaos right now.






Eternal Fail said:


> Rage?  More like cheering.  Delicious plot twist was delicious.


Cheering? When Dumbledore died, people in the theater were throwing their popcorn at the screen and shouting bloody murder. It was fantastic. I imagine Harry's death would incite a similar response.



Platinum said:


> I imagine Grave Peril would have that same effect on people as well.


Definitely. The trial at the end of Proven Guilty would be another one.


----------



## dream (Jul 5, 2011)

Oh you were talking about Harry, I thought you meant that bitch that died.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 5, 2011)

Eternal Fail said:


> Oh you were talking about Harry, I thought you meant that bitch that died.



...I'm confused now. Who're you talking about?

EDIT: Oh wait, you mean Susan? You're a bad person. Susan's death was sad. Awesome, but sad. That wasn't a cheering moment. 

EDIT 2.0: 
*Spoiler*: _chappy 4_ 



Actually, snow in May is pretty tame now that I think about it. The last time a Fey Knight was killed and his mantle was not given to another Knight, we had frogs falling from the sky and all sorts of wackiness. Assuming Mab has the Winter Knight mantle, that definitely gives her an advantage against Titania. With no Knight to hold the mantle, there should be more craziness with the weather.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Jul 5, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> ...I'm confused now. Who're you talking about?
> 
> EDIT: Oh wait, you mean Susan? You're a bad person. Susan's death was sad. Awesome, but sad. That wasn't a cheering moment.
> 
> ...


I didn't like Susan either .  Her death wasn't sad,it was just badass.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 5, 2011)

Heathens, the lot of you. 


*Spoiler*: _Last thing I just realized about chapter 4_ 



Mort acts as if Harry is just a ghost... What if the PoV for this book is just Harry's ghost, and Harry is still alive somewhere in the world? A situation somewhat like Harry and his ghost when he was fighting Kravos


----------



## Platinum (Jul 5, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> Heathens, the lot of you.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Last thing I just realized about chapter 4_
> ...



Nah Harry's pretty much confirmed dead at this point. It's not like the situation with his ghost.

Harry wouldn't be needed to be sent back if his real self was still alive and remember Cassius' death curse took effect at the end of changes, as harry died alone.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 5, 2011)

Oh. Oh right. A ghost wouldn't have gone to Limbo Chicago anyways.


----------



## Platinum (Jul 5, 2011)

Yeah Ghosts stay in the nevernever.


----------



## Detective (Jul 11, 2011)

15 Days.

This has been a public service announcement on behalf of readers everywhere. That is all.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Jul 11, 2011)

^Ah Detective, I think I might be in love


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 11, 2011)

Detective said:


> 15 Days.
> 
> This has been a public service announcement on behalf of readers everywhere. That is all.



Aaaaaah, so close! 

I'm a bit disappointed that I'll have to read it as an e-book this time. But that shouldn't take away from the awesomeness.


----------



## dream (Jul 11, 2011)

> I'm a bit disappointed that I'll have to read it as an e-book this time. But that shouldn't take away from the awesomeness.



I first read the e-books, didn't dent the awesomeness in any way.  ^_^

Though that might be because I read a lot of fanfiction on the internet and have gotten used to reading stories on a screen.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 12, 2011)

I usually reserve reading books on my laptop for books I can't get, or I won't get, or rereads. But I always love reading 'real' books for the first time. It just adds to the magic in a way e-books lack.

But then I'm a bookworm, and I spent a lot of my childhood in libraries. So I may have just over-romanticized the act of reading.


----------



## dream (Jul 12, 2011)

This

Chapter 5 is out.

Nothing really impressive but the plot seems to be picking up pace.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 12, 2011)

NECROBOB!!! I was hoping we'd get to see him again.

And I guess ghosts/psuedo-ghosts can use magic after all. Neat.


----------



## dream (Jul 12, 2011)

I'll be fun to see how NecroBob will be a part of the story.


----------



## dream (Jul 16, 2011)

Some cunts in the UK supposedly were shipped the book early.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 16, 2011)

Lucky shites! Hopefully one of them will upload a copy to the net.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 22, 2011)

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU 

I got tricked into reading a review with spoilers for all of Ghost Story.  Son of a bitch.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 22, 2011)

Bergelmir, link me. I have a fetish for spoilers.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 22, 2011)

^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)

Its a chapter by chapter live blog review.


----------



## dream (Jul 22, 2011)

Reading it right now.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 22, 2011)

Enjoy!

There's a fantastic quote at the end where Harry is just... beautifully badass.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 22, 2011)

Just finished reading the review...

Well damn. :sanji


----------



## dream (Jul 22, 2011)

The quote at the end.  Dresden you are fucking awesome.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 22, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> Just finished reading the review...
> 
> Well damn. :sanji



That sums it up quite nicely.


----------



## uchihasurvivor (Jul 22, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)
> 
> Its a chapter by chapter live blog review.



Damn I didn't read any spoiler chapter but I couldn't help reading that

Just wanted to make sure there is a lot of Molly goody in this book, I'm satisfied.


----------



## dream (Jul 22, 2011)

> Damn I didn't read any spoiler chapter but I couldn't help reading that



Don't you just love spoilers?  

Molly seems to become really awesome in those six months that Dresden was dead, can't wait to actually see how much she improved.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 22, 2011)

Eternal Fail said:


> Don't you just love spoilers?
> 
> Molly seems to become really awesome in those six months that Dresden was dead, can't wait to actually see how much she improved.



Yeah, my jaw dropped when I read who was teaching her. No wonder she's improved like crazy.


----------



## dream (Jul 22, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I wonder if Harry will get any training by Mab.  :ho


----------



## uchihasurvivor (Jul 22, 2011)

I still don't get how the justice freak like Murphy love Kincaid an immortal assassin/bodyguard dog and massive douchebag.


----------



## dream (Jul 22, 2011)

uchihasurvivor said:


> I still don't get how the justice freak like Murphy love Kincaid an immortal assassin/bodyguard dog and massive douchebag.



Great sex.


----------



## uchihasurvivor (Jul 22, 2011)

Eternal Fail said:


> Great sex.



Yeah that explain it.


----------



## Platinum (Jul 22, 2011)

I will stay spoiler free until I read the book myself .


----------



## dream (Jul 23, 2011)

I can respect that.


*Spoiler*: __ 





> I will be the Winter Knight. I will be the most terrifying Knight the Sidhe Courts have ever known. I will send your enemies down in defeat and make your power grow. But I do it my way. On my terms. When you give me the task, I'll decide how it gets done - and you'll stay out of the way and let me work. And that's how it's going to be.



-Harry Dresden at the end of Ghost Story


----------



## dream (Jul 23, 2011)

The following site sells the ebook early.  

here

Just purchased it and am about to read it.


----------



## uchihasurvivor (Jul 23, 2011)

Eternal Fail said:


> The following site sells the ebook early.
> 
> here
> 
> Just purchased it and am about to read it.



I don't have a credit card


----------



## Platinum (Jul 24, 2011)

Me neither .


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 24, 2011)

I shouldn't have looked at the spoilers...but I did.

I don't regret it either, because the summaries sound awesome as hell.


----------



## dream (Jul 24, 2011)

Butters is awesome.


----------



## dream (Jul 24, 2011)

He-Who-Walks-Behind.  I'm in love with him.


----------



## uchihasurvivor (Jul 25, 2011)

Got the book, but I need to finish the book I'm currently reading before I start it.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Jul 25, 2011)

I don't have enough money to purchase Ghost Story, so I'll just have to check it out from the library. It comes out tomorrow.


----------



## Detective (Jul 25, 2011)

What playlists will those of you who listen to music while reading, be playing when reading this installment of the Dresden Files?

I am busting out my unofficial Dresden theme, the main theme from Quantum of Solace - Another Way To Die. Which I think is rather fitting considering the genre and the title of this novel.

[YOUTUBE]icrNkmf9uyQ[/YOUTUBE]

^ I will be playing the pure instrumental version of course.

P.S: If any needs a certain PM coming their way, please let me know. Of course I am talking about the digital copy of the UN's plan for World Peace.


----------



## Platinum (Jul 25, 2011)

You are the broest of bros.


----------



## Detective (Jul 25, 2011)

Platinum said:


> You are the broest of bros.



I am the founder of the Brofist on NF afterall. And I have no idea what you mean, but thank you for the compliment.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Jul 25, 2011)

Detective said:


> What playlists will those of you who listen to music while reading, be playing when reading this installment of the Dresden Files?
> 
> I am busting out my unofficial Dresden theme, the main theme from Quantum of Solace - Another Way To Die. Which I think is rather fitting considering the genre and the title of this novel.
> 
> ...


I usually use Shinedown's Diamond Eyes when I read Dresden .


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 29, 2011)

So guys how about some High Octane Nightmare Fuel for your book


----------



## keikai24 (Aug 9, 2011)

Are there any books like Dresden that are good? Looking for something to read.


----------



## dream (Aug 9, 2011)

keikai24 said:


> Are there any books like Dresden that are good? Looking for something to read.



I haven't seen any book series similar to Dresden Files that is any good.  :/

You can check out the Nightside series but it isn't that good.

Also, if you haven't read Codex Alera by Jim Butcher then read that first.  It is by the same author as Dresden Files though it is vastly different.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 10, 2011)

I wouldn't say the nightside books are bad, they're just too short.


----------



## Penance (Aug 10, 2011)

^Yeah, exactly...


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm on Chapter 10 currently in Ghost Story.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Murphy backhanding Felicia across the face with her gun,then beating the shit out of her was badass


----------



## Bluebeard (Aug 14, 2011)

What does everyone think about Ghost Story?


----------



## dream (Aug 14, 2011)

Probably my fifth or fourth favorite Dresden Files book.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 14, 2011)

Bluebeard said:


> What does everyone think about Ghost Story?



It was pretty damn good in my opinion, probably my favorite behind Proven Guilty or Turn Coat

Poor Molly though...just dear god.

It will be really interesting to see what happens in the next book..and I really wish my membership to the Jim Butcher Boards would be accepted already...I want access to those Word of God forums TvTropes was talking about.


----------



## Bluebeard (Aug 15, 2011)

Eternal Goob said:


> Probably my fifth or fourth favorite Dresden Files book.





Emperor Joker said:


> It was pretty damn good in my opinion, probably my favorite behind Proven Guilty or Turn Coat
> 
> Poor Molly though...just dear god.
> 
> It will be really interesting to see what happens in the next book..and I really wish my membership to the Jim Butcher Boards would be accepted already...I want access to those Word of God forums TvTropes was talking about.



Some people were saying that they're dissapointed, but for me, I was suprised. I wasn't expecting any of this at all. I got a completly different story and for that I'm thankful. Not sure where it ranks on my Dresden list, though... 

Molly is pretty fucked up. I'm liking her character development though.

I'm also waiting for my membership to be accepted.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Aug 15, 2011)

"That's right! _Who_ just rocked your face? Harry fucking Dresden! That's _who_!"

Still not finished,but this is the part where I stopped at.


----------



## Detective (Aug 15, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> ..and I really wish my membership to the Jim Butcher Boards would be accepted already...I want access to those Word of God forums TvTropes was talking about.





Bluebeard said:


> I'm also waiting for my membership to be accepted.



I just want to say that your really missing out. 

... seriously, if there anything in particular you guys want me to post here that your curious about? 

P.S: I will post my thoughts on Ghost Story in the coming days but as a quick mention, I thought it was a solid book. Not as amazing as Changes, but I think it's meant to be more of a setup book for Cold Days(which I absolutely cannot wait for  ).


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Aug 15, 2011)

Eh,it was good. Not much mystery,it was more of a fantasy novel this time around. I still liked it,but it's not one of my favorite Dresden books.

One thing that made me mad is that:

*Spoiler*: __ 



Thomas wasn't mentioned till near the end . Thomas is like my 2nd fav character of The Dresden Files.




I'm glad that Butters got a lot of screen time this time around. He was epic .


----------



## Detective (Aug 20, 2011)

keikai24 said:


> Are there any books like Dresden that are good? Looking for something to read.





Eternal Goob said:


> I haven't seen any book series similar to Dresden Files that is any good.  :/



You guys need to check out *The Iron Druid Chronicles* by Kevin Hearne. The first trilogy was just released in a back to back to back format. Basically each of the first three books were released one after the other in May, June & July of this year. It's basically urban fantasy like Dresden, with a magic system, deep mythology(i.e the pantheon of different deities still exist... Thor in particular is one of the villains in this series), action, comedy and supernatural elements(werewolves, witches, ghouls, demons etc.).

Books 1-3 are:

*Hounded
Hexed
Hammered*(Three guesses on the villain in this )

Books 4-6 are tentatively to be released next year:

*Tricked
Trapped
Hunted*

If you liked the relationship between Harry and Mouse(particular when Mouse could talk), you will like the banter between Atticus(Main character) and Oberon, his wolfhound, who can communicate with his master.

I'm going to make a thread on the series, so check it out.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 24, 2011)

Bought the book on the day Detective let me know it came out, but I hesitated to read it.  I read something like 8-10 books between then and now, and only when I ran out of others did I finally let myself sink into the pure enjoyment that is this book.

I was not disappointed. 

Ghost Story was classic Butcher.  The guy, more than any other author out there currently, *speaks* to me.  You can tell he trolls the internet just like we do.  He's about as hardcore a nerd as you can find, harder if his bio is anything to go by.  And Harry Dresden is just a flat-out enjoyable character.  I honestly can't go three pages in a book without busting out in gales of laughter because of one of his one-liners.

Agree with some that this was more of a set up book for the next one.  But it was a hell of a book nonetheless.  Getting to find out more about Harry's past, the ramifications of what he did in Changes, and an idea of just how important he is in the big scheme of things made this book worth more than what I spent on it.  

Also, you can tell that this is the exact middle, plotwise, of the series.  Harry had to look at himself really hard in this book, and a lot of what he saw didn't sit right with him.  _Ghost Story_ was, to me, almost like Harry's intervention, so that he has his head on straighter for when the shit really starts getting heavy now that the series is on its downhill course.  

P.S.

Numerous sci-fi references were AWESOME.  Honestly; in case you haven't gotten it by now, I fucking loved this book.


----------



## dream (Aug 24, 2011)

> Numerous sci-fi references were AWESOME.



No doubt about that though I didn't like the Star Trek set part.  



> Ghost Story was classic Butcher. The guy, more than any other author out there currently, *speaks* to me.



Couldn't agree more with this.  I've yet to have a single real problem with his plots.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 24, 2011)

Seriously, I almost wish I'd been born 10 years earlier, or him ten years later, and in the same locale as him, just for the slight possibility that we could be friends.  If his writing style is anything to go by he's a cool-as-shit guy, and would make an awesome buddy most likely.  Plus he'd be one of the few people I've come across who would probably get every obscure, slightly geeky reference I make.  

Ah, well.  Such is life.


----------



## Cyphon (Feb 17, 2012)

Finally I have gotten most of the books in this series and started reading them. I just finished the third (_Grave Peril_) and I have to say, I definitely like this series so far. I had previously read his _Codex Alera_ series and loved it so I was expecting good things. So what to say about it......

I think he does everything pretty good. The magic is good, the mystery is good, the suspense, action, humor etc...I don't think he does anything great so far in these first 3 books though. Something has been missing to really push it over the top for me. There is never a moment where I have been bored and it is really easy to read through these books but I find them becoming a bit repetitive. One good thing about _Grave Peril_ is that some new elements were introduced such as the vampire councils and Michael as a Holy Knight or whatever he actually is. 

Anyway, I have enjoyed it so far but I am hoping it gets to the next level before too long.


----------



## DeathkillerD (Feb 18, 2012)

don't worry about it, they get much better with each book. When you get to summer knight  or so you will see a marked improvement. The first 3-4 books are the weakest in the series.


----------



## Detective (Feb 19, 2012)

Cyphon said:


> I am hoping it gets to the next level before too long.



I am rather envious of the unique position you are in right now. Oh the badassery that awaits you as you journey deeper into this series for the first time.

Enjoy the Ride! I really want to read your opinion on all the _Changes_ you will encounter over the next ten novels.


----------



## dream (Feb 19, 2012)

Cyphon, the books will get much better.  A lot of interesting things will begin to appear and part of the repetitiveness will begin to fade as the overall plot of the entire books is beginning to be revealed to us.  You're in for a wonderful ride, that much I can promise you.


----------



## Cyphon (Feb 19, 2012)

Sounds good. 

Just as a quick update I am about 250 into _Summer Knight_ and I can already feel/see the difference. The opening part with his White Council trial and all of that business was pretty damn cool. I also find myself laughing a bit more in this one.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 19, 2012)

God how I want c'thulu vs dragons


----------



## Cyphon (Feb 20, 2012)

Finished _Summer Knight_. 

So far the best of the series and now has me getting more pumped for things to come.

Things I liked:

- The inclusion of Murphy and the wolves into Harry's world. I always hate when characters are left in the dark when they could be of more help so it was nice to see him letting them in. 

- The bigger glimpse into the White Council and just the opening of the book in general. Really liked those events.

- How much of an ass Morgan is. I hate him but that is good. I like characters I can really get into hating.

Things I didn't like:

- Elaine. Everything around her just came across as anticlimatic to me. The reunion didn't seem emotional enough and her departure seemed even more cold. It is not a major thing but I almost feel like she didn't even need to be in the book. I am assuming she will play a bigger role later so this may just be a standalone problem in this book.

- Some of the stuff involving the Fae and the fighting. I think for creatures meant to be so powerful everything turned out kind of simple in the end. Like when he used the shield to trip up all of their horses.....They live for how long in constant battles and don't expect such an obvious tactic? Again, this isn't a major bad point for me because I know there has to be a balance. The good guys are going to win and things have to go their way. 

- A lack of closure with the White Council in the end. I enjoyed the first part so much I was hoping we got to see Harry return back to a meeting to exchange some jibes with them and rub it in their faces.


I may be forgetting some things to include but in general I really enjoyed the book. The good far outweight the bad.


----------



## dream (Feb 20, 2012)

Banhammer said:
			
		

> God how I want c'thulu vs dragons



It really sucks that we wont' be seeing Ferrovax until the end of the series. 



> - The inclusion of Murphy and the wolves into Harry's world. I always hate when characters are left in the dark when they could be of more help so it was nice to see him letting them in.



We'll be seeing more of these characters helping Harry, Butcher doesn't sideline them at all.



> - How much of an ass Morgan is. I hate him but that is good. I like characters I can really get into hating.



Morgan is a wonderful character, I hated his guts at first but then I grew to really like him.

The Elaine aspect was somewhat weak but it isn't something that ruined my enjoyment of the book. 



> - Some of the stuff involving the Fae and the fighting. I think for creatures meant to be so powerful everything turned out kind of simple in the end. Like when he used the shield to trip up all of their horses.....They live for how long in constant battles and don't expect such an obvious tactic? Again, this isn't a major bad point for me because I know there has to be a balance. The good guys are going to win and things have to go their way.



Don't really remember that part to be honest, it's possible that the Fae, the ones with the horses, there were among the weaker fighters.  Don't worry, we'll get to see more badass Fae later on.



> - A lack of closure with the White Council in the end. I enjoyed the first part so much I was hoping we got to see Harry return back to a meeting to exchange some jibes with them and rub it in their faces.



Heh, I was expecting that as well but we get something similar in later books so I'm not too bummed out.


----------



## Cyphon (Feb 20, 2012)

Just finished _Death Masks_. I thought it kind of fell back into the repetitive feel again for a lot of it but at the same time it had some of the more bad ass moments in the series.

- When Harry took a baseball bat to the fake priest and Michael and Sanya were standing outside.
- Shiro showing up and trading himself for Harry after easily carving all of the guards up.
- The shoot out on the train where Harry and Marcone were side by side after Michael went down.

I actually liked the ending as well where we got to see the softer side of Marcone. I kind of have a liking for bad guys with some kind of good streak in em. 

My order right now would probably be:

Summer Knight > Death Masks >= Fool Moon > Grave Peril > Storm Front.....I think.


----------



## dream (Feb 20, 2012)

Just wait until you get to Dead Beat. 

And yes, it did fall into the old repetitive feel.  I do like Summer Knight much more than Death Masks.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Feb 21, 2012)

Eh I don't know I kinda liked Death Masks A bit more than Summer Knight when it comes down to it.


----------



## Cyphon (Feb 21, 2012)

Just finished up _Blood Rites_. I am now in love with this series. Going to have to say this is my favorite book so far. 

The twist with Thomas being Harrys brother. Learning more about his mother and the talk with Ebenezer. Kincaid is bad ass and this may have been the book that made me laugh the most as well. 

I started realizing that while reading this book I am not looking forward to the repetitiveness. Not that I want everything to stay in a constant loop but I find myself grinning when the jokes are coming and I expect it or when he is about to have his big revelation. 

And it is the little things too. Right at the end after we get the "dread" news that the coin is effecting him and he has the serious conversation with Bob and then all of the sudden Bob stops him and asks him to describe Murphys ass again


----------



## dream (Feb 23, 2012)

> Just finished up Blood Rites. I am now in love with this series.



I knew that you would fall in love with it sooner or later. :33

How far have you progressed into Dead Beat?


----------



## Cyphon (Feb 23, 2012)

Just 2 chapters in so far.


----------



## dream (Feb 23, 2012)

Ah, you'll love this book.  We learn quite a lot of juicy information in this book and the plot begins to feel as if there is an end game that Butcher is working towards.


----------



## Cyphon (Feb 23, 2012)

Speaking of end game is there any estimate of how many books will pan out?


----------



## dream (Feb 23, 2012)

Cyphon said:


> Speaking of end game is there any estimate of how many books will pan out?



There should be twenty-three or so books that are similar to what we are seeing followed by an apocalyptic trilogy.


----------



## Cyphon (Feb 25, 2012)

That is a lot of damn books but that can only be a good thing with this series being so good.

Anyway E Goob. I finished _Dead Beat_. I can't fully decide but it might get the spot as best so far, if not, 2nd. I thought this one reached a new level of.....Danger. I dunno if I am remembering wrong but it seemed like there were more times in this book that he actually lost or was genuinely in trouble than in others. 

Some of the scenes I really liked were Billy and the wolves showing up to save him outside the bookstore. When he was attacked at his apartment with Butters and Thomas, getting the dinosaur and running through zombies left and right, the warden meeting and the ending with Morgan. I also liked when he was fighting with Liver Spots and gave the command for Mouse to kill him. 

A lot of cool events in this book. I like adult Mouse being a sidekick and Butters really grew on me by the end and how could he not? Definitely an awesome book.

One thing that threw me off was what happened to Mouse in the end? He was with them when Harry woke up and got the dinosaur and then they went off and he was just forgotten about. I know he came back with Thomas but what about the inbetween? Not a big deal but something I was thinking about.


----------



## dream (Feb 26, 2012)

> That is a lot of damn books but that can only be a good thing with this series being so good.



Yes, the book count also means that nothing will be rushed unless Butcher screws up somehow.  



> Anyway E Goob. I finished Dead Beat. I can't fully decide but it might get the spot as best so far, if not, 2nd. I thought this one reached a new level of.....Danger. I dunno if I am remembering wrong but it seemed like there were more times in this book that he actually lost or was genuinely in trouble than in others.



Dead Beat is my second favorite book after Changes. :33  Hmm, the amount of times that he faced danger in Dead Beat is probably a bit more than the previous books but it's tough to say.

Loved the parts with Sue, The Wardens, and Morgan.  Dresden becoming a warden took me by surprise, thought that they hated him too much to do that.   And Morgan's character keeps on improving from her on out.  

Mouse is amazing and gets even better especially in Turn Coat.  Butters had nice character development as well.  

No idea but I would assume that it isn't anything too important...probably.  

Where are you in the next book?


----------



## Cyphon (Feb 26, 2012)

I am about 60 pages in. Dresden just got hit with like 3 things he already needs to do and had the car wreck. I think he is about to try his magic on the mini city.


----------



## dream (Feb 26, 2012)

You're probably going to love the end of this book going by what you wanted to happen in Summer Knight.


----------



## Cyphon (Feb 28, 2012)

Finished up _Proven Guilty_. Another solid performance but definitely not replacing my top 2 or 3. 

Charity is kind of bad ass and I started to like her a bit more and the parts near the end with Molly and the council were of course awesome. Gatekeeper really, really intrigues me. I want to know what he is all about. 

I am a little disappointed people aren't dying. These situations are far too ugly for everyone to survive so neat and clean like this. Hell, even Nelson has a chance at recovery and he is filler. I actually hoped a lot for Mollys death to fall on Dresden and hope it still does in the future. The emotion of it could be pretty crazy to read. Wanted it in this book though. 

E Goob I think this is the book you meant when you said the direction of the series is actually starting to unfold to an ending. When Harry talked to Ebenezer at the end and they discussed the "Black Council" and such they kind of introduced the big threat.


----------



## dream (Feb 28, 2012)

> Finished up Proven Guilty. Another solid performance but definitely not replacing my top 2 or 3.



I'll agree with you on that, Proven Guilty and the next book aren't the best ones but they still are highly enjoyable.  



> Charity is kind of bad ass and I started to like her a bit more and the parts near the end with Molly and the council were of course awesome. Gatekeeper really, really intrigues me. I want to know what he is all about.



I'll disagree with you on Charity, I still dislike her for how she was earlier.  We'll have a few more awesome council meetings in the upcoming books.  And yes, The Gatekeeper is pretty damn interesting.  



> I am a little disappointed people aren't dying.



Don't worry, Turn Coat and Changes will change this. 



> I actually hoped a lot for Mollys death to fall on Dresden and hope it still does in the future.



Don't make me slap you. 



> E Goob I think this is the book you meant when you said the direction of the series is actually starting to unfold to an ending. When Harry talked to Ebenezer at the end and they discussed the "Black Council" and such they kind of introduced the big threat.



Ah yes, my mistake though we were introduced to some of the Black Council in Dead Beat.


----------



## Cyphon (Feb 28, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> I'll disagree with you on Charity, I still dislike her for how she was earlier.



It isn't that I full out like her now but I did enjoy her little bit of growth. She was also a pretty good fighter. 



> Don't make me slap you.



You like Molly?

I don't dislike her and she actually sounds kind of hot and intriguing but imagine the effect on Harry and his relationship with Michael if he had to kill her. It would have been crazy.

He has a lot of baggage and stuff but a lot of it comes from things like his 2 murders of enemies. Having to kill his friends daughter would be sick.


----------



## dream (Feb 28, 2012)

> It isn't that I full out like her now but I did enjoy her little bit of growth. She was also a pretty good fighter.



Yeah, she was much better in Proven Guilty.  



> You like Molly?



Yes, she's a pretty interesting character especially by Ghost Story.  She grows up quite a bit, would be a damn shame if she died since her character can grow in really interesting ways.  



> He has a lot of baggage and stuff but a lot of it comes from things like his 2 murders of enemies. Having to kill his friends daughter would be sick.


----------



## Dejablue (Mar 1, 2012)

I need to get the most recent book. But I'm all out of book money *mopes*


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 2, 2012)

Just finished up _White Knight_. 

Enjoyable enough but kind of felt like it was falling back into the old ways. Everything too neat and clean and easy. The danger didn't feel very convincing and on top of that he got rid of Lash who I thought was very interesting in keeping him close to the dark side. 

I liked the teachings with Molly and finding more out about Mouse. Ramirez is fun to have around as well and the flashback part was nice though I was hoping it was a bit more heart wrenching the way Harry had been letting it eat at him. It didn't really grab on any emotion like I thought it would. 

Overall this book was kind of a let down.


----------



## dream (Mar 2, 2012)

White Knight is a bit of a letdown when compared to the previous books but don't worry, the next three books should be far more enjoyable for you and there will be enough danger in them.  

Mouse is a pretty interesting character, you'll learn more fun stuff about him in Turn Coat and Changes.  Ramirez is pretty amusing.  And yes, flashback wasn't heart-wrenching enough but I suppose that Butcher is a bit weak in that area.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 2, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> And yes, flashback wasn't heart-wrenching enough but I suppose that Butcher is a bit weak in that area.



I just find it odd Harry gets so mad and depressed and when you see what actually happens it just doesn't feel like he should be. I guess that is realistic because IRL people get down on themselves a lot over dumb stuff but in a book I am looking for a bit more draw on emotion. 

It is also getting a little tiring how he is an ass to all of the bad guys as soon as the convo begins. I like when he gets smart with them after they have provoked but in general he just starts off being a douche to most of them. 

He sits and mopes about people dying and then he just goes out of his way to provoke the bad guys to do worse.


----------



## dream (Mar 2, 2012)

Hopefully Butcher will improve in that area eventually, he had the same weakness in Codex Alera from what I remember.

Heh, I actually find that a bit amusing but I can where you are coming from.    

Some people will do dumb shit even when they know that it is dumb.


----------



## Detective (Mar 4, 2012)

Dejablue said:


> I need to get the most recent book. But I'm all out of book money *mopes*



The epub format and a Firefox browser are your best friends in your pursuit of excellent literature. If you are interested, I can provide you with a link to a totally unrelated article on the origins of glow in the dark chalk and the global drug conflict it's sale is fueling.


----------



## Banhammer (Mar 4, 2012)

I kind of reeeeaally want to read that molly short story he wrote


----------



## dream (Mar 4, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I kind of reeeeaally want to read that molly short story he wrote



What the name of that short story?


----------



## Banhammer (Mar 4, 2012)

no clue. But it takes place apparently between Ghost Story and Cold Days


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 4, 2012)

Finished up _Small Favor_. 

Another good book adding more intrigue and depth to the future of the series. 

The beginning of this book may have been my favorite to date. The attack during the snowball fight was pretty cool and a great time for it to happen. I wasn't really expecting it. This book definitely added in a lot of despair which was nice to see. One thing I don't like is the absence of the wolves. You have all of these super threats and the wolves are more than capable and they aren't even considered at all. I mean how good would a group of wolves be in the snow? 

At this point I want to find out more about this Black Council.


----------



## dream (Mar 4, 2012)

Awesome, now you're about to get to the really fun stuff when it comes to the plot. 



> The attack during the snowball fight was pretty cool and a great time for it to happen. I wasn't really expecting it.



It was a pretty awesome scene. :33



> This book definitely added in a lot of despair which was nice to see.



There is even more despair in Turn Coat and Changes from what I remember so you'll love that aspect of those books. 



> One thing I don't like is the absence of the wolves. You have all of these super threats and the wolves are more than capable and they aren't even considered at all. I mean how good would a group of wolves be in the snow?



I suppose that it's because they are starting to get pretty outclassed, you'll see them in action in the next book but the enemies that Harry faces are starting to get too much for the Alphas to handle. :/



> At this point I want to find out more about this Black Council.



We learn a bit more about it in the next book or at least one of the plans they had. :33


----------



## lowtech redneck (Mar 5, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Don't make me slap you.



lol! Molly is my second-favorite character.

One of my favorite series of all-time.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 8, 2012)

Finished up _Turn Coat_. 

Might be that this is my favorite so far and it seemed to have the best character balance amongst all of the books. Butters had some parts mixed in, the wolves stayed relevant (which I am glad about), wardens, White Court, White Council etc....I thought it did well to bring them all in on the story in some way. 

Seeing Listens to Wind fight the skinwalker was awesome. I would love to see more of that or the council overall flexing their muscle. Mouse continues to do awesome things and Molly had some growth as well. 

Morgan went out like a champ and I loved it. I also liked Toot and the fairy's getting involved and managing to be more relevant. They always make me crave pizza though. 

I also especially enjoyed the overall story of this one. The having to find the trader while protecting Morgan and all of that is probably my favorite scenario up to this point. 

I will say that I was completely disappointed in the traitor. They basically introduced him just to throw him away and I thought that was kind of crap. I was hoping for some big reveal and it was just a let down. 

Oh, and Gatekeeper......I want to see more of him.


----------



## dream (Mar 8, 2012)

> Might be that this is my favorite so far and it seemed to have the best character balance amongst all of the books. Butters had some parts mixed in, the wolves stayed relevant (which I am glad about), wardens, White Court, White Council etc....I thought it did well to bring them all in on the story in some way.



I can agree with that, there was a lot of good characters in this books.  Changes continues with this trend.



> Seeing Listens to Wind fight the skinwalker was awesome. I would love to see more of that or the council overall flexing their muscle. Mouse continues to do awesome things and Molly had some growth as well.



That fight was incredible, heck even Harry's fight with it was good to see.  Same here, we need more heavy-weight wizards slugging it out.  Cold Days should have a bit of that since Dresden should have become quite a bit stronger.



> Morgan went out like a champ and I loved it.



He had a good death in here, loved how he claimed to have used a nuke to kill a skinwalker. 



> I also especially enjoyed the overall story of this one. The having to find the trader while protecting Morgan and all of that is probably my favorite scenario up to this point.



Yes, this was probably the best Dresden Files book in that regard.



> I will say that I was completely disappointed in the traitor. They basically introduced him just to throw him away and I thought that was kind of crap. I was hoping for some big reveal and it was just a let down.



Well, he was introduced in an earlier book somewhere.  Still, I do agree with you on how it wasn't as satisfying as it could have been.



> Oh, and Gatekeeper......I want to see more of him.



You, me, and everyone else wants that.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 11, 2012)

I used the knife.
I saved a child.
I won a war.
God forgive me.




Oh man what a climax to this book! Could it be this was the best one yet? Possibly. McCoy the grandfather, Martins double double cross, the daughter.......So much emotion when he killed Susan and then talked to Murphy. I teared up a little. 

Dresden being pushed so far he became the winter knight. You could feel the despair and the crossing into darkness. This is what I have been waiting for. 

The Butters thing was an asspull though. He should have been dead even though he is awesome. 

But datending. Was it Kincaid that shot him? Don't tell me if it has been answered 

This was the last book I have. Ghost Story isn't out till Aug. for paperback. I can't wait.


----------



## dream (Mar 11, 2012)

> I used the knife.
> I saved a child.
> I won a war.
> God forgive me.



It was fantastic. 



> Oh man what a climax to this book! Could it be this was the best one yet? Possibly. McCoy the grandfather, Martins double double cross, the daughter.......So much emotion when he killed Susan and then talked to Murphy. I teared up a little.



It probably is the best one, at the very least it's the biggest game changer in the whole series so far.  A lot of interesting revelations in this book, the McCoy thing lays some interesting directions to take in future novels especially when it comes to Thomas.  That end with Susan..



> Dresden being pushed so far he became the winter knight. You could feel the despair and the crossing into darkness. This is what I have been waiting for.



I've been waiting you to get here since the moment that you said that the main characters weren't dying or being injured enough. 



> The Butters thing was an asspull though. He should have been dead even though he is awesome.



Butters will never die. 




> But datending. Was it Kincaid that shot him? Don't tell me if it has been answered



I'm sure that you'll find the answer to that...interesting. 



> This was the last book I have. Ghost Story isn't out till Aug. for paperback. I can't wait.



Illegally download the book or get the hardcover.   Though in many ways Ghost Story is a bit of a letdown when compared to Changes though it can't be helped since Butcher used this book to wind things down.  Cold Days, the upcoming book, should be the really interesting one.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 11, 2012)

Cold Days isn't due til fall.

I'm a sad panda


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 11, 2012)

Is Side Jobs worth getting?

And what about the graphic novels or comics or whatever they are?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 11, 2012)

Cyphon said:


> Is Side Jobs worth getting?
> 
> And what about the graphic novels or comics or whatever they are?



Side Jbs is a collection of most of the short stories...so yeah I'd say get them. in terms of the comics. sure why not. Fool Moon and Storm Front are just retellings of the books...Welcome to the Jungle is an original story I believe


----------



## dream (Mar 11, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Cold Days isn't due til fall.
> 
> I'm a sad panda



I was hoping for an April release like usual.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 11, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Side Jbs is a collection of most of the short stories...so yeah I'd say get them. in terms of the comics. sure why not. Fool Moon and Storm Front are just retellings of the books...Welcome to the Jungle is an original story I believe



Do you know if he plans on doing all of them in comic form? I wouldn't want an incomplete collection.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 11, 2012)

Cyphon said:


> Do you know if he plans on doing all of them in comic form? I wouldn't want an incomplete collection.



I don't know why Dynamite wouldn't want to continue publishing them...as for actual proof can't really say.


----------



## Banhammer (Mar 12, 2012)

If they'll sell he'll make them.
That's about as much as you can  expect


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Mar 18, 2012)

Cyphon said:


> Is Side Jobs worth getting?



I'd say for Thomas' little story. It's freaking hilarious .

And Cold Days keeps eluding us .


----------



## Detective (Mar 18, 2012)

Magnum Bookworm said:


> And Cold Days keeps eluding us .



The same can be said for the winter in Canada this past year. However in our case, it's a good thing. In the case of the Dresden Files, it's pure shenanigans.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 25, 2012)

So it only took about a year and numerous requests to resend to account activation code, but i've finally been able to gain access to the Word of Jim section on the Jim Butcher forums.

I'm liking the information on Demonreach


----------



## dream (Mar 25, 2012)

Can you post some of that information?


----------



## Platinum (Mar 31, 2012)

I would like to see that info as well EJ.


----------



## Banhammer (Mar 31, 2012)

> Well, he was introduced in an earlier book somewhere. Still, I do agree with you on how it wasn't as satisfying as it could have been.


They introduced him in Dead Beat as the author of Die Erlen King


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 31, 2012)

Oh sorry about that guys wasn't paying attention

the stuff I saw was that Butcher noted that Demonreach (the spirit as well as the leyline that spawned it) had been there long before there was an island...also it's limp (That I had forgotten it had one) was caused by the hollowing out of what would be Lake Michigan by an iceberg.

Also the runes on the lighthouse/cabin are ancient Norse.

Also notable is that apparently if a wizard has enough juice in the tank he can completely rewrite reality to what he wants

also was it mentioned in the books that the NeverNever stretches out to the Moon?


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 9, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> also was it mentioned in the books that the NeverNever stretches out to the Moon?



I don't think the moon is mentioned in relation to NeverNever in the books at all.

But I think the NeverNever does connect to the moon. If I remember correctly, one of Butcher's quotes on the website says the Moon is a gateway to someplace really really horrific.

That said, I think the Moon is under the Gatekeeper's watch, so the NeverNever might not reach there. It might be a gateway to the Outside instead.


----------



## dream (Jul 26, 2012)

Jim Butcher announced, on Twitter, that he has almost finished writing Cold Days.  I'm guessing that we'll see a release sometime in October or late September.



> Jim Butcher ‏@longshotauthor
> 
> xxxxxxxxx (Loading Cold Days 96 percent) xxxxxxx---> Should finish it this weekend!


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

orgasm

But yeah, he stated he wants cold days out in winter

Also, note, Gatekeeper is a title, and one of the tasks for such a title is to walk across the moon's surface


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 30, 2012)

just tweeted said:
			
		

> Mmmm, homemade fruit rollups! Also, COLD DAYS is done.



Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.


----------



## dream (Jul 30, 2012)

Excellent, now to wait for a release date to be announced.


----------



## dream (Aug 7, 2012)

So the paperback version of Ghost Story, which came out today, had the first chapter of Cold Days in it.


*Spoiler*: __ 




We're introduced to two new characters, a female changeling that seems to serve the position of The Winter Knight or at least Mab and the king of Malks who Mab has commanded to serve Harry. 

Also, lol Mab.

She's also throwing a big party in Harry's honor, I think, and Harry being Harry will surely manage to screw things up in a big way.


----------



## Cyphon (Aug 7, 2012)

I need to pick Ghost Story up. Can't wait to read it.


----------



## dream (Aug 7, 2012)

Do it as soon as you can, Cyphon. :33

Also, it was apparently the first two chapters of Cold Days that were released.  There simply wasn't a break included or any indication of you moving onto chapter 2.


----------



## Cyphon (Aug 7, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Do it as soon as you can, Cyphon. :33



No doubt. 

I waited for this to come out in PB but I think when the others come out I will just scoop them up. 

Think I am about to start reading _The Magicians_ though, so I will probably pick it up afterward.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 7, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> So the paperback version of Ghost Story, which came out today, had the first chapter of Cold Days in it.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



That last bit has me giddy. We'll probably get a good look into the Winter Court, and probably heavy hitters in the Dresdenverse will pop up. Its been too long since we saw the likes of Ferrovax.


----------



## dream (Aug 7, 2012)

Cyphon, I'm about to read Magacians as well. 

Bergelmir:


*Spoiler*: __ 



From what I hear it is mostly going to be the Winter Court, some Wyldfae, and possibly some from the Summer Court coming to the party.  Likely no Ferrovax.


----------



## Cyphon (Aug 7, 2012)

EG - It sounds really good. Or at least looking at George RR Martins review has me hyped up.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 7, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Aw man. That kinda sucks. That said, Summer and Winter and Dresden all together?  World War Fey, here we come. 




Is that Lev Grossman's Magicians you guys are talking about? I've heard thats pretty great. Alas, it's way down my reading list.


----------



## Cyphon (Aug 7, 2012)

Yeah Berg, Lev's.


----------



## dream (Aug 7, 2012)

Cyphon said:


> EG - It sounds really good. Or at least looking at George RR Martins review has me hyped up.



Hopefully it lives up to what Martin says it is. 



Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Aw man. That kinda sucks. That said, Summer and Winter and Dresden all together?  World War Fey, here we come.




*Spoiler*: __ 



I can't wait to see who Harry will insult first. 




Also, Butcher and Rothfuss will be in a live webcast in about an hour or so.  Wouldn't miss that for anything.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 7, 2012)

I tried looking for the magicians but couldn't find it

I'll try again after Monster Hunter International


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 7, 2012)

Check your PMs, Ban.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 8, 2012)

man, I'm jonesing for those preview chapters, Hard


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 8, 2012)

And that molly short story as well


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 16, 2012)

Cold Days has been set for release on November 27th! 

2 months and 9 days...

And that cover. A magnificent replacement for the staff.


----------



## Detective (Aug 17, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Cold Days has been set for release on November 27th!
> 
> 2 months and 9 days...
> 
> And that cover. A magnificent replacement for the staff.



As resident crime fighter, private investigator and known encyclopedia of media resources on this forum, I shall make sure all members of this thread have a copy of a totally unrelated article on the origins of the polka dot striped mongoose that is set to be published during the beginning of the last week of November of this year.

The temptation to read either that or Cold Days should be a decision of epic proportions.


----------



## dream (Aug 17, 2012)

It's good to see that we have a date for the release of the books. 

That's also a pretty nice cover though I miss the staff.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 18, 2012)

Anyone got the preview chapters out yet? Ah know the website won't release them until october comes knocking it's boots on the way out


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Aug 22, 2012)

Synopsis:

*Spoiler*: __ 





> HARRY DRESDEN LIVES!!!
> 
> After being murdered by a mystery assailant, navigating his way through the realm between life and death, and being brought back to the mortal world, Harry realizes that maybe death wasn’t all that bad. Because he is no longer Harry Dresden, Chicago’s only professional wizard.
> 
> ...






I think I got a boner....


----------



## dream (Aug 23, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Killing an immortal huh, sounds like a pretty awesome task.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 23, 2012)

Oh hell yes .


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 23, 2012)

Please let the immortal be some crazy con artist, please, please, please.


----------



## dream (Aug 23, 2012)

*Spoiler*: _Cold Days Summary_ 



What I'm most curious about is that unfathomable source of magic that is supposed to be facing a threat.  Could it possibly be Demonreach?


----------



## Cyphon (Aug 24, 2012)

Bought Ghost Story and Side Jobs today. Will be getting started on them soon.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 4, 2012)

anyone read the juicy new chapters yet?


----------



## Cyphon (Sep 4, 2012)

I have read some Side Jobs chapters


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 5, 2012)

I've read sidejobs a high time ago, thank you


----------



## Cyphon (Sep 10, 2012)

Finished up Side Jobs folks. Really good stuff. I especially liked the final story and the one with Michael but they were all good. 

Ghost Story next and then I am caught up with everyone. I just wish I could remember all of the other stuff I have read. I have a decent general idea of everything but am still missing a lot of the finer details.


----------



## uchihasurvivor (Sep 11, 2012)

Heard there was going be a Molly-centered short story edited by GRRM! Any words on that?


----------



## Bergelmir (Sep 11, 2012)

I think the name of the anthology is Dangerous Women. But I don't remember the release date.


----------



## Cyphon (Sep 12, 2012)

Done with Ghost Story. 

Felt good to be back with Harry and the others. Jim Butcher has to be my favorite author at this point. 

Has everyone who has read this also read Codex Alera?


----------



## dream (Sep 12, 2012)

I've read Codex Alera.  Fantastic book series though the fifth one was a bit disappointing.


----------



## Cyphon (Sep 13, 2012)

Yes, it was really good. That is why I have to call Butcher my favorite at this point. 2 series (and big ones at that) that are near the top of my list.


----------



## dream (Sep 13, 2012)

It's the same with me.  Butcher's characters, plots, and writing have a way of capturing my attention and not letting go until I finish the book.


*Spoiler*: _Awesome UK Cold Days book cover summary_ 





> You can't keep a good wizard down - even when he wants to stay that way.
> 
> For years, Harry Dresden has been Chicago's only professional wizard, but a bargain made in desperation with the Queen of Air and Darkness has forced him into a new job: professional killer.
> 
> ...



As I suspected, it is Demonreach that is being threatened.


----------



## Jazzmatazz (Sep 15, 2012)

I don't know how Butcher keeps topping himself, but he does. But then, he's already planned to why why Hell's bells, stars and stones, and empty night are swear phrases in his universe. So everything else could be more along the lines of "What's less epic than all the stars going out at once?"

Same way characters swore by the Great Furies in Codex Alera and then he showed why.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 16, 2012)

I don't remember any magical bloody crows showing up in Codex Alera


----------



## dream (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm pretty curious about how big of a role the White Court will have in the last three books as their big swear is the little for one of the books.


----------



## Bergelmir (Sep 17, 2012)

Unless there's a twist coming, the White Court is shaping up to be one of the major Powers in the world. They all but wiped out the Black Court, and now that Red Court has been Dresden'd, you can bet Lara is getting sexy folk to fill in the gap sexily. They're definitely going to be big by the finale trilogy.

On another note, how many books do you guys think Marcone has until he goes magical? Seeing as he'll probably be in his late 60s by the end of the series, I'm expecting him to turn into some sort of magical being, or half-breed, or Odin-blessed or something.


----------



## dream (Sep 17, 2012)

Marcone going magical? 

I don't want that to happen at all.  The appeal of his character is that he's this awesome mortal crime boss without magic that deals with the supernatural world.


----------



## Bergelmir (Sep 17, 2012)

I totally agree. But he's getting old. And I don't see the Gentleman as someone who'll just bark orders from behind a desk.


----------



## dream (Sep 18, 2012)

Perhaps he'll die before being too old to go out into the field.


----------



## Bergelmir (Sep 18, 2012)

But I wants to see him lead a charge of Valkyries and Einherjar against the Outsider cosmic terrors!


----------



## dream (Sep 18, 2012)

He'll be right there with them when they attack cosmic horrors, he'll just be all the way in the back giving orders.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 19, 2012)

Wielding Tommy guns too


----------



## Random Stranger (Sep 19, 2012)

Hell’s bells, an hour searching on google turned up nothing.

So I am afraid I’ll have to do a shameless plea for your help:

Does anyone have a link or something to the first two Cold Days teaser chapters?


----------



## dream (Sep 19, 2012)

He'll be put in jail at the end or die. 

RS:  I haven't seen such a link.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 20, 2012)

only a few more weeks until they're online anyway


----------



## Jazzmatazz (Sep 29, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I don't remember any magical bloody crows showing up in Codex Alera



Well, there was that one time with the Vord...


----------



## Detective (Sep 30, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> only a few more weeks until they're online anyway









....


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 1, 2012)

This cracks me up: 

I have to admit, I opened the high res pics in the hope they were pics of story pages.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 26, 2012)

Read the bigfoot short stories and they pissed me off because they weren't  Cold Days and I'm just about done with being so thoroughly cockteased


----------



## Nimander (Oct 27, 2012)

I'm gonna have to do a re-read of the entire series one of these days.  If for no other reason than to catch back up on all the happenings and enjoy the best moments all over again (zombie T-Rex riding Harry was probably the point at which I fell head over heels with the story.  I'm gonna have to bring that set back one of these days...)


----------



## Kikyo (Oct 27, 2012)

Just finished the series actually. Cant wait for Cold Days... I wonder if the Jade Court will come up anytime soon? Or if Dresden will actually find the next 2 Knights of the Cross..


----------



## dream (Oct 27, 2012)

I'm leaning towards the Jade Court not really having any prominence in the series.  Dresden will certainly find the next two Knights of the Cross, they will certainly be needed in the Apocalyptic trilogy.


----------



## Kikyo (Oct 28, 2012)

I was thinking more along the lines of a short story about the Jade Court and Shiro, or hell, an entire spinoff series of the life and times of Shiro (and/or all the Knights).


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 28, 2012)

I believe Butcher has said that we won't see the Jade Court until the finale trilogy, although that was a few years ago and he may have changed his mind. I don't think they'll be super important other than showing off some flashy abilities, and being threatening.


Also, a spinoff of Shiro's Knight days? Hell. Yes.


----------



## jkingler (Oct 29, 2012)

Zombie T-rex was definitely a defining moment and a perfect blend of epic humor and badassery. When people ask if they should read the series, I always want to mention there is a zombie dino destroying things, but I never do, because...man, it was just SO much fun to find that out on my own and watch events unfold as they did...


----------



## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Oct 29, 2012)

Dude what the hell spoilers PLOX^


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 29, 2012)

jkingler said:


> Zombie T-rex was definitely a defining moment and a perfect blend of epic humor and badassery. When people ask if they should read the series, I always want to mention there is a zombie dino destroying things, but I never do, because...man, it was just SO much fun to find that out on my own and watch events unfold as they did...



Aye, that was superb. Dead Beat is still my favourite novel of the series.

Although I find that a lot of the minor moments are hilarious. "Nay, but prithee, with sprinkles 'pon it instead" had me snorting Cola out of my nose. 

EDIT: I just realized we're at the end of October. I think the sample chapters start coming from Halloween, and then its 3 weeks of torture until Cold Days.


----------



## dream (Oct 31, 2012)

Chapter 1 is out for those that didn't have a chance to read it yet:


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Oct 31, 2012)

Epic. Glad to have Dresden back.

Happy Birthday Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden!


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 1, 2012)

I lost it at "Call Me".  I missed this so much!


----------



## Cromer (Nov 1, 2012)

The chapter has that pre Changes feel about it. Return to form?


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 5, 2012)

just a few more days until chapter two


----------



## dream (Nov 5, 2012)

*Spoiler*: _Massive Spoilers, you have been warned_ 



In yet another engaging urban fantasy that leavens apocalyptic threats with smart-ass humor, Butcher just keeps upping the ante for wizard Harry Dresden, appearing in his 14th novel after 2011’s Ghost Story. Being killed has barely slowed down the Chicago PI, who now serves as the Winter Knight. In that role, Dresden operates as hit man for Mab, the queen of air and darkness, who is forbidden from killing mortals. Not only is his liege capricious and deadly, but Dresden soon finds himself up against new supernatural foes, not least the Redcap, who dyes his headgear with the blood of anyone unfortunate enough to cross his path. The greatest danger, however, may be from Dresden’s new assignment from Mab: to murder her daughter, Maeve. Plentiful backstory allows newcomers to have little trouble getting caught up in the action or connecting with the charismatic lead. Agent: Jennifer Jackson, Donald Maass Literary Agency. (Nov.)


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 5, 2012)

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to heylove again" 

Mab's assignment... I've waiting for this for a decade now.


----------



## dream (Nov 6, 2012)

*Spoiler*: _Spoiler_ 



Never expected Mab to want Maeve to be killed, should be all sorts of fun depending on how close Maeve is to Lea in power.  This isn't even getting into the possible control she has over Harry.




Chapter 2 is out:

the Aes Sedai symbol


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 6, 2012)

I just have one thing to say.


*Spoiler*: __ 



I am your batman.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 6, 2012)

the indentity of the immortal was not what I was expecting


----------



## dream (Nov 8, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> the indentity of the immortal was not what I was expecting




*Spoiler*: __ 



Same here, she was pretty much the last person on my list of supernatural creatures Mab would want to kill.  Do you think that Mab wants to kill Maeve off and replace her with Lea?  Lea is already stronger than Maeve, with the mantle of the Winter Lady she would be even stronger which would be a rather good thing for Winter.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 8, 2012)

Given what's under that spoiler...

*Spoiler*: __ 



...did you guys read all five chapters that came with the Ghost Story paperback?


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Nov 8, 2012)

New chapter out already?


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 8, 2012)

Magnum Bookworm said:


> New chapter out already?



Not yet. The third chapter is set for next Tuesday.



Cromer said:


> Given what's under that spoiler...
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


The first four chapters are being released weekly on Butcher's website. SO far, two are up.


Banhammer said:


> the indentity of the immortal was not what I was expecting





heylove said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Same here, she was pretty much the last person on my list of supernatural creatures Mab would want to kill.  Do you think that Mab wants to kill Maeve off and replace her with Lea?  Lea is already stronger than Maeve, with the mantle of the Winter Lady she would be even stronger which would be a rather good thing for Winter.



*Spoiler*: __ 



It kinda makes sense. I think this might be a cleaning of house of Mab's part. The apocalypse is coming, and what she needs are useful tools. Maeve seems too much the type to muck about satisfying her pleasures.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 8, 2012)

I was excepting some rogue trickster hindu god who had pissed mab off in some nonsense or another

This seems like it may be more Scott Lynch and less Kevin Hearne


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 8, 2012)

Yeah. At first, I was thinking that Harry might get sent to gank one of the new powers that have risen post-Changes.

But this is much better, imo. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



It feels right that the first Winter Knight book would have a large focus on the fey. I really hope Fix and the Summer fey appear too. Actually, I'd really just like a reappearance of Elder Gruff.


----------



## Detective (Nov 9, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I was excepting some rogue trickster hindu god who had pissed mab off in some nonsense or another
> 
> This seems like it may be more Scott Lynch and less Kevin Hearne



Speaking of Kevin Hearn, Dat Iron Druid Chronicles # 5, Trapped, comes out this month too, apparently.

Body Ready For Dresdeon Goodness and Atticus Shenanigans.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 9, 2012)

Detective said:


> Speaking of Kevin Hearn, Dat Iron Druid Chronicles # 5, Trapped, comes out this month too, apparently.
> 
> Body Ready For Dresdeon Goodness and Atticus Shenanigans.




*Spoiler*: _kinda spoilers?_ 



Hey, do you know if Trapped is set after Granuaile's training? 'Cause I'm ready for the Iron Druid apocalypse books to come out.


----------



## dream (Nov 11, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Yeah. At first, I was thinking that Harry might get sent to gank one of the new powers that have risen post-Changes.
> 
> But this is much better, imo.
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



It would a damn crime if Elder Gruff didn't show up in this book.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 11, 2012)

Holy crap, I just rememberd: Toot-toot! Now that Harry is properly the Winter Knight, how much bigger and juiced up is the Za-Lord's Guard going to be?

Also, Za-Lord's Guard.  That never fails to crack me up.


----------



## dream (Nov 13, 2012)

Chapter 3 is out.

the Aes Sedai symbol


*Spoiler*: __ 






> “It wasn’t an accusation,” I said, as gently as I could. “I’m not trying to trick you into saying something. I’m not hoping that you’ll give me an excuse to do something to you. Okay? I’m not like Lloyd Slate.”
> 
> “Neither was he,” Sarissa whispered. “Not at first.”



Love that exchange.  

Anyways, I'm starting to like Sarissa.  Hopefully she will remain a fixation in the series long after this book.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 14, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Yeah, I'm liking her as well. She's got that warm, homely vibe. Which makes her perfect to be some kinda of shadow assassin of Mab's. Cat Sith is just the distraction.


----------



## Luna (Nov 18, 2012)

Yes. Definitely give this series a try at all costs. It is incredible.


----------



## dream (Nov 20, 2012)

Chapter 4 is out.

the Aes Sedai symbol


*Spoiler*: __ 




Well, that sure is a way to royally piss off someone.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 20, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Harry was magnificent. If he just keeps on poking Maeve like this, she's going to be freaking insane by the time Harry gets around to ganking her.




Also! Only 7 days left to release!


----------



## Kikyo (Nov 20, 2012)

heylove said:


> Chapter 4 is out.
> 
> the Aes Sedai symbol
> 
> ...



LOL 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Apparently his wit was also sharpened by Mab's "training" during his recovery. Also, holy shit, Halloween already? Murphy and co are going to be completely gobsmacked. I can't wait to see how they are doing and how they will handle his resurrection.


----------



## dream (Nov 21, 2012)

So some people already have the book.  Fuck them, fuck them all to hell.


----------



## Kikyo (Nov 21, 2012)

preview copies aka galleys? I remember when I used to get those. jelly now.


----------



## dream (Nov 21, 2012)

Apparently some local stores are shipping them early, Indigo sells it early too I believe.


----------



## jkingler (Nov 22, 2012)

As soon as someone has it digitally, I know someone who happens to have the same name and inbox who would also like to have it.


----------



## Detective (Nov 25, 2012)

Soon.


----------



## dream (Nov 25, 2012)

I gave in and decided to read some Cold Days spoilers, one of the developments is...interesting.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 25, 2012)

I hate my friends. 

They tricked me into reading Ghost Story spoilers last time. And straight up dumped Cold Days spoilers on me this time. 

I'm seriously considering giving them a kick to the nuts the next time I see them.


----------



## Detective (Nov 25, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I'm seriously considering giving them a kick to the nuts the next time I see them.



This was the only way this type of shenanigans could end, Berg. Do it, and do it with no regrets. Then go home, read Cold Days in peace, and become a family man.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 25, 2012)

Aye, I really might this time. I was so close too. Only 2 days more...

On another note, I don't know if you guys read the DF comics(I don't, they kinda suck), but a new original miniseries is coming out in January. Its called Ghoul Goblin. Welcome to the Jungle was pretty good, so this should be decent as well.


----------



## jkingler (Nov 26, 2012)

Whenever I see a new post in this thread, it gets my hopes up. These feels...


----------



## dream (Nov 26, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I hate my friends.
> 
> They tricked me into reading Ghost Story spoilers last time. And straight up dumped Cold Days spoilers on me this time.
> 
> I'm seriously considering giving them a kick to the nuts the next time I see them.



They're dicks. 


*Spoiler*: _Cold Days Spoilers_ 




*Spoiler*: _Last warning_ 



How do you feel about you-know-who becoming the Winter Lady? 









jkingler said:


> Whenever I see a new post in this thread, it gets my hopes up. These feels...



I think that I'll be able to help you get a digital copy.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 26, 2012)

Solaris said:


> They're dicks.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Cold Days Spoilers_
> ...




*Spoiler*: _Cold Daaaaaays_ 



You know, its weird. That was one I saw coming. I was thinking that Mab might enlist her as another way to bind Harry to her even tighter.

It'll be interesting to see how Harry and Molly interact. The sifu-grasshopper relationship is all out of wack now.

After I finished raging, I did man-squee at who killed Maeve. So awesome.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 26, 2012)

All y'all who've read the book, can we count on you guys to wait till at least Thursday to start discussing it?


----------



## dream (Nov 26, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: _Cold Daaaaaays_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: _Cold Days_ 




It's going to be very interesting to see how Molly changes with this, a part of me certainly doesn't like her being under Fae rules.  Michael is going to fucking rage.  Probably.

Ugh, I hated that. 






Cromer said:


> All y'all who've read the book, can we count on you guys to wait till at least Thursday to start discussing it?



I'll keep things spoiler tagged until then.


----------



## dream (Nov 26, 2012)

I'm about halfway through the book but so far I must say that it's been a real delight to read.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 26, 2012)

Cromer said:


> All y'all who've read the book, can we count on you guys to wait till at least Thursday to start discussing it?



I haven't actually read it yet. But yeah, I won't spoil it for you guys. Just don't look under the spoilers.



Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: _Cold Days_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: _cold days_ 



Yeah, Michael's reaction aught to be interesting. Part of me thinks that he'll trust in God and Harry, and be his usual mellow self. The other part of me remembers the Warrior short story.

You didn't like superMurphy? I'm looking forward to seeing how that plays out.


----------



## dream (Nov 26, 2012)

Finished the book, I'm going to digest it a bit before doing a review but at this moment it's definitely among my top four Dresden Files books.



Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: _cold days_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: _Cold Days_ 




Forget Michael, Charity is going to be the fun one to watch.  I hope that this change makes Harry x Molly even more likely...

I dislike Murphy, perhaps more so than any other reoccurring character.

Also, the original Merlin was a badass.  Throwing around that much power...should be fun to see when Harry gets that strong if not stronger.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 26, 2012)

Solaris said:


> Finished the book, I'm going to digest it a bit before doing a review but at this moment it's definitely among my top four Dresden Files books.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



This probably doesn't need to be spoilered, but I don't get the Murphy hate. Most DF fans I know hate her. Yeah, she was a bitch in the first few books, but she came around. She's kinda cool now. Who else chainsaws chlorophages without batting an eye?

Also, we get info on Merlin? Freaking. Yes.


----------



## dream (Nov 26, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: _Cold Days_ 




I never really hated Murphy in the earlier books for what she did.  What makes me dislike her is that she has the potential to be in a romantic relationship with Harry, this tension/unresolved feelings between them is damn annoying.  Either get with him or kill off any chance of a romance between the two, the unresolved romance of this pairing that I dislike just annoys the living daylights out of me.  Would like her more even if she got together with Dresden which isn't something that I'm too keen on.  

We do, he does something really really badass. 

We also learn about the Outer Gates and the name of the big bad or at least one of them.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 26, 2012)

Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: _Cold Days_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: _cold days_ 



Ah, gotcha. I do find the Murphy romance angle a bit annoying. And wholly unnecessary, since it didn't go anywhere.

Yeah, I was spoiled on Nemesis. Thats a really unimaginative name, though. Although, I guess its the Outsider naming theme, like He-Who-Walks-Behind. Its more of title that summarizes what they are instead of a name.




EDIT: Okay, I'm leaving this thread until I read the book. 'Cause I'm one step before asking you to spill the beans on everything. See you tomorrow(hopefully).


----------



## dream (Nov 26, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: _cold days_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: _Cold Days_ 




The romance was more to my tastes in Codex Alera, Butcher just paired Kitai with Tavi from pretty much the second book on and barely gave it attention.  We could just enjoy it without worrying about questions like "will they end up together or not".  I can understand that Butcher is going for something else here but with Murphy it just doesn't click for me.  Excuses keep on coming up to keep them from being together and that's just ruining the pairing for me.  Heck, the Harry x Molly romance is much more interesting despite it not really progressing a single bit on Harry's part beyond him finding her highly attractive and possibly entertaining the idea of a relationship somewhere down the line. 

Probably but it doesn't really hit with the other Outsider names so far, wonder how strong he is.


----------



## Random Stranger (Nov 27, 2012)

Solaris said:


> I think that I'll be able to help you get a digital copy.






jkingler, you know the rule. Puff puff pass. Don't keep that ganja all for yourself!


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 27, 2012)

Book is out you guys. I just read up to Chapter 14. Here're my thoughts.


*Spoiler*: __ 



FUCKING YES. Five chapters in and Eldest Mac Daddy Gruffo is here! 

Yeeep, definitely something up with Sarissa. Changeling? In the old school meaning. A human kidnapped and replaced by the fey.

Santa Motherfucking Clause. And the Erlking is Herne the Hunter! 

Holy crap. Harry's really packed on the metaphysical pounds.. 5 pretty powerful spells in succession without breaking a sweat. Damn, I wonder what insane stuff he can pull when boosting spells with soulfire now. Bloody hell, even Cat Sith is impressed.

“sometimes we watch television or go to movies or listen to music...Once we went to Disneyland” h god, I can't breathe, Jim, you beautiful bastard. 

Jesus, Mab can shut down all transport from Faerie. ALL OF FAERIE?  And not even in full winter yet. Bloody hell. 

New car.... man I'm going to miss the Beetle... also, Toots! Tooooooooooooooots. Oh god, its Bob. Thank goodness he's doing alright. And addicted to the internet. 

Damn, Butters. Way to go. 

Huh. Something weird is going on with Harry's memory. A side-effect of being part dead? Or a side-effect of Lash slowly rebooting herself?(hopefully)

Dear god, Bob. His magical nuke status just keeps on being reaffirmed. Also, fuck. I fear for Molly.

Man, Molly is... stable. I was expecting more random twitchy outbursts or something. Lea's doing a good job with her.

OH GOD, DEMON REACH IS A BOMB. FUCK YES.




This bloody book. God, I haven't fanboy'd like this in over a year. Not even a third of the way through. I may explode from sheer awesome overload...


Welp. Good night. I'm going to have some neat dreams tonight.


----------



## Kikyo (Nov 27, 2012)

ok, just got it... need some time to read it so see you all later


----------



## dream (Nov 27, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Book is out you guys. I just read up to Chapter 14. Here're my thoughts.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: _Cold Days_ 



It's one heck of an impressive island.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 27, 2012)

Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: _Cold Days_
> 
> 
> 
> It's one heck of an impressive island.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Yeah. I can't believe Harry is going to live there in the future. Although as a master destructionist, it fits him.


----------



## dream (Nov 27, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. I can't believe Harry is going to live there in the future. Although as a master destructionist, it fits him.




*Spoiler*: _Cold Days_ 




No surprise there for me, I've always thought that he would live there ever since that vision/feeling that he had in Small Favor.


----------



## Kikyo (Nov 27, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Book is out you guys. I just read up to Chapter 14. Here're my thoughts.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Read up to chapter  16...

Bergelmir said pretty much what I think as well. 

Also 
*Spoiler*: _Cold Days_ 



Thomas made me cry. Harry you ARE an idiot. But at least you know it now.

And omg, magic Bob doesn't know? Just what the hell is Demonreach? 

Also, if Mab figured out what was going on with Demonreach, it's likely she and the Summer Queen (who probably also felt the energies there) agreed to shut down travel until dawn to let Harry, the most likely person to fix it, get to it. If the Mothers can work together, the Queens can too, especially when there is more profit to both of them to let someone else deal with the problem.


----------



## Detective (Nov 27, 2012)

Okay, Santa Detective has some articles on the origins of metal paperclips and their continued evolution for all the children of this thread.

Merry Cold Days to you all!


----------



## Detective (Nov 27, 2012)

35, 35 people in this thread.

Ah Ah Ah Ah Ah!

/End Sesame Street Count Detective.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 27, 2012)

Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: _Cold Days_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Thats what I was drawing on. Curious to see how he'll get there. And I wonder if being the guardian of the island is a bloodline thing, since it was implied in... Changes? that Maggie was being groomed to take care of Demonreach.




EDIT: @Detective:


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 28, 2012)

More thoughts.


*Spoiler*: _chappy 15-23_ 



Interesting. Svartalves can make tech that isn't affected by a wizard's murphyonic field. Good ol' Norse spirits. I kinda like that Molly's relationship with the Svartalves is sort-of parallel to Harry's relationship with the Za-Lord's Guard.

Oh thank god. I've been worried about Thomas since the end of Turn Coat. Even with the scene in Ghost Story, I thought he might slip back. Damn its good to see him sane, and unmonstery. 

I never thought of Harry's contract with Demonreach as a marriage. But it fits. 

Holy shitbuckets. The stones predate human wizardry.  I think its angelic/fallen angelic magic. Or Outsider/Old One magic, since the earth is originally theirs. And more mechanicaly advanced spellcrafting? What if the island is a repository of high tech magic? A vault kept for future use?

I likey Demonreach's humanoid form. Oh oh oho ho ho. IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND. Yesyesyesyesyes. And.... and are the Wardens originally connected to Demon reach?

Merlin made the island? Holy crap. Wait, wait wait. That means the super advanced magic tech is his. And Merlin remembered the future... What if the island is made of future tech.. What if its made of future tech, locked away for a future purpose... say the frikken apocalypse! Or post apocalypse.

FFFFFFUUUUUUUU  Its a prison. A goddamn prison of the most hellish gods and demi gods. Oh monkey balls. Oh Harry, you poor dumb lad, you just keep on diving into pools of shit.

The parasite. And the next book is book 15, a factor of 5.. Aw yeah. Lash is back with some Nicklehead shenanigans. Although... she bargained with Harry's life? Sounds too evil for her. 

A long time ago, pretty much here...  Oh Bob.  Okay, so its multidimensional prison being destroyed by a multidimensional attack. Interesting. I wonder if Harry stopping this will cause a paradox. The 'tension' and bad mojo is supposed to be aftershocks of the island having already been blown up, after all. Man, I'm getting Doctor Who flashbacks.

Silly faeries. They never learn.

Ah Fix. I hope you get shot.

Oh o ho ho, its time for Mac! Steak sandwiches! Wotan! Dear god, the number of Star Wars references are killing me.

Curious. So the island has banefire. And it can kill everything imprisoned on the island. So why imprison them at all? Something is off here...

Mac... has Mac tusseled with Outsiders before? Holy crap. Is he Batman retired? Is he really John Winchester? :MAAAC! 





*Spoiler*: _musings_ 



Going back to what Bob said about the Faerie mantles of power. Is Summer Lady always doomed to go mad? 'Cause thats what it implies. Although, I suppose that could have been whatever is corrupting the faeries, and screwed with Lea and Mab.

And Halloween was engineered by the Council? That sounds like a faith-based mechanism instead of a magic one. I wonder what else is engineered like that? 
Winter Knight mantle is twisting Harry... What if he causes the apocalypse by releasing the inmates in a fit of madness...

I'm kinda surprised at the sheer amount of information that is being dumped in this book. This is stuff that would usually be parsed over three books, and I'm not even halfway through.


----------



## Kikyo (Nov 28, 2012)

Read up to ch 34.... OMG. just OMG omg omg omg

Jim Butcher. I love you.


----------



## dream (Nov 28, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> More thoughts.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _chappy 15-23_
> ...




*Spoiler*: _Cold Days_ 




I don't think that Merlin remembering the future or anything like that being said in the books, his real life myths may not be accurate.  Still, that is fairly god damn impressive tech.  Bob was shitting himself over how it shouldn't be possible to compress so much magic in a single stone.  Can't wait for Harry to get to that level. 

As for the Summer Lady, I got the feeling that was due to Nemesis.

No faith based magic there from what I understand.  There was simply a specific day that all the immortals went out recharging/eating/etc and the barrier between the living and the dead was the closest.  The Council, in order to protect mortal, decided to make a holiday where people would wear masks so that immortals would be cautious of eating anyone in the event that one of the people behind the masks was an actual immortal that was even stronger.


----------



## Kikyo (Nov 28, 2012)

oh god just finished it.


So much more to comment on, but these stand out the most right now. I swear he packed in enough stuff for any 3 books into this 1!

*Spoiler*: _cold days_ 



Seriously TWO new queens??? Holy shit is Faerie gonna be in turmoil for a while.

I had forgotten that Lea had been "sick" I don't think it ever occurred to me that it was meant literally.

How does a wizard become the GateKeeper (also,  at Rashid getting a flying carpet) and why does the White Council not know about the position or DemonReach? It seems like they ought to know, especially since Merlin made the island.... makes me wonder if he had something to do with the creation of the Outer Gates as well. 

Think Ebenezer will let Harry read Merlin's journals?

Butcher blew my mind when he said that Vadderung/Odin is also Santa Claus. 

sad that he and Karrin will not be getting together in the foreseeable future. 

Who and WHAT is Mac?

Kinda missed Marcone in this one, but at least he was mentioned.

Poor Fix. Poor Mab (never thought I'd say that).


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 28, 2012)

Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: _Cold Days_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I just assumed that Merlin could remember the future since its been a fairly key part of his lore. Especially since T.H.White. But yeah, Jim may not keep that for his canon.

Yeah, its probably Nemesis. But she also didn't have that psychotic batshit insane feel Mab and Lea did in Proven Guilty. Aurora could have just been in early stages of the infection though. Or a test run or something. 

Right, I misunderstood the Halloween bit. Just reread it, and you're right. Welp, there goes my hope of making Kwanzaa a magical nuke.

Gleargh, I wish it was evening time already so I could read more of the book.


----------



## dream (Nov 29, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: _Cold Days_ 



That lviing backwards in time seems like something that should be insanely difficult to do and probably isn't too good of a idea. 

Don't remember Proven Guilty but I don't think that Mab was ever infected.  she was hurt/pissed beyond belief which caused her to be a bit different.  Also, it seems that Nemesis can possibly control a person's personality change but it's hard to be certain at this point.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 29, 2012)

Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: _Cold Days_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Ah. Right. Mab was in Black Bolt mode during Proven Guilty. For some reason, I was thinking both Mab and Lea popped up after Harry Summer flame'd the Scarecrow.

In any case, my Merlin musing was before I saw Bob's video. Merlin can clearly time travel, so its a moot point.


----------



## Random Stranger (Nov 29, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Finished it.

It was boner inducingly amazing from the fight with redcap and cronies and harry's declariation at the party...lacuna's (awesome new character) tinkerbells army attack on harry after the explosion...darth dresden (fap fap fap)...first fight with the outsider at mac's bar...reunion with thomas...harry leading the Hunt...

In short, it was beautiful and would have been my favorite dresden book...except for the ending...that was kinda dissapointing...and I don't think I am the only one in this...I mean for the entire book I was looking forward to Harry's big confrontation with Maeve (and to a lesser extent Red Cap and cronies) but when it was finally time for said confrontation, harry was naked, unarmed, pretty much out of magic and no real threat...okay it was unexpected and I totally didnt see it going that way, so I'll give butcher points for that.

also Maeve's death was kinda lame too...I thought she was a good villain...deserved a more awesome death ...though Molly being the new winter lady is a nice twist...

PS: Am I the only one who thought at first that Sarissa and Meave were lesbian lovers after hearing them arguing...didn't see the sister angle coming....

PPS: this may be an unpopulair opinion but I was also a lil annoyed with Harry x Murphy romance, shit is too dragggggggged out and besides she is past her prime, at least pushing forty (in Bobs words: everything has long since already start drooping), and probabily entering meno-pauze, which is most likely the reason Kincaud stopped going on sextrips with her... and harry's is a young wizard who's a long way from reaching his prime...so if they get together...after a few years harry will be nursing a granny (changing her diapers and shit )...molly is a better choice (my murphyxharry hate could also be partially influenced by my like for Molly)


----------



## Kikyo (Nov 29, 2012)

Random Stranger said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



The ending was a little unexpected and a bit of an anti-climax. But I also think it shows Harry growing up a bit. He didn't resolve things himself really. He made Mab and Maeve resolve it themselves, as they should have. It was a family matter... and foreshadows how he will eventually have to deal with Maggie in the future. 

As for Karrin. I do wish they would get together. But there's something you don't know about older women past 40... their sex drives tend to ramp up. I think Karrin dropped Kincaid, not the other way around, because she realized her feelings for Harry and while she can have a casual relationship, she can't when she wants something real instead. And the way Harry is about love, he'll be a lot like Connor MacLeod with his first wife in the first movie, happily caring for her as she dies. So while I'm disappointed they aren't together right now, I also agree with their reasons why not. They are both the type of person who needs to commit to a serious relationship 100% when they are really serious about it. they both care too much to get into this lightly. And remember, Kincaid was just a fling, not serious at all, for Karrin.


----------



## dream (Nov 29, 2012)

Kikyo said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> He made Mab and Maeve resolve it themselves, as they should have. It was a family matter... and foreshadows how he will eventually have to deal with Maggie in the future.




*Spoiler*: _Cold Days_ 



Wait a second, are you implying that he'll have to fight Maggie in the future?  I hope not.


----------



## Kikyo (Nov 29, 2012)

Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: _Cold Days_
> 
> 
> 
> Wait a second, are you implying that he'll have to fight Maggie in the future?  I hope not.




*Spoiler*: __ 



no no! I meant that he has to face her himself sooner or later and find out if she remembers him from Chichen Itza or not. They have a family problem and like Mab and Maeve, they need to face each other to resolve it. I really hope they never have to fight.


----------



## dream (Nov 29, 2012)

Kikyo said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> no no! I meant that he has to face her himself sooner or later and find out if she remembers him from Chichen Itza or not. They have a family problem and like Mab and Maeve, they need to face each other to resolve it. I really hope they never have to fight.




*Spoiler*: _Cold Days_ 



Ah, he really should face her sooner rather than later.  

Far too many people are expecting Maggie to fight Dresden at some point or another. >_>


----------



## Kikyo (Nov 29, 2012)

Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: _Cold Days_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



oh god no. They really shouldn't. Harry wouldn't be able to do it at all. There is no story there, he'd just lay down and let her kill him if it ever came down it. 

It does make me wonder if Charity and Michael have that girl in therapy.... maybe with the good Father Forthill


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 29, 2012)

Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: _Cold Days_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Well, the Winter Knight mantle is twisting Harry's personality. I think Maggie might be his anchor to humanity. And its Jim we're talking about. There's going to be some soul torturing conflict in the process.





EDIT: Just saw this on Jim's forum. Some teasers on the next book.


			
				Pinary said:
			
		

> First off, the two likely titles:
> 
> Bag Man
> Skin Game
> ...



Here's the Q&A where he teases: Link removed Its at the 57 minute mark.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 30, 2012)

I'm on that forum as well, and I didn't see that. Good eyes Bergelmir.


----------



## Kikyo (Nov 30, 2012)

woot! Denarians!


----------



## dream (Nov 30, 2012)

*Spoiler*: _Bergelmir_ 





> Well, the Winter Knight mantle is twisting Harry's personality. I think Maggie might be his anchor to humanity. And its Jim we're talking about. There's going to be some soul torturing conflict in the process.







*Spoiler*: _Cold Days_ 



I'm not sure about Maggie being his anchor to humanity or if she is it won't be by much.  I expect him to not meet her for a few more books at least.  Molly will probably be a better anchor to his humanity, they'll likely be trying to keep each other as human as possible.




Denarians always show every five books or so. 

Hopefully Ivy will appear as well.


----------



## Kikyo (Nov 30, 2012)

Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: _Cold Days_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I expect Karrin to be Harry's anchor to humanity. They love and trust each other in ways that even Molly can't yet. I also expect that Molly will change a lot faster than Harry under the influence of her mantle. She wasn't ready for it, she's extraordinarily empathic (which the mantle isn't going to help with) and her age will have her own hormones going already, which the mantle will definitely augment. And she already has a hard time keeping it under control with Harry. 

The whole Harry/Molly relationship is going to go in extremely new directions. Harry will still want to be her mentor, though she's technically his boss now and she'll still want to be the student. They are both new in the ways of the mantles they have and will be spending some time trying to figure out where they start and the mantles end. Harry will be better at that, his own sense of self is very strong, not so with Molly. And the mantles will be wanting them to get down and dirty too. Faerie will be very interesting for a good long while.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 30, 2012)

just finished Cold Dys


My fucking feels


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 30, 2012)

Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: _Cold Days_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Since Michael will be back in the next book, I think Harry will meet Maggie at the end of the book. You just know Michael will be nagging Harry about it. It would be a pretty sweet epilogue.


----------



## dream (Nov 30, 2012)

Kikyo said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: _Cold Days_ 




Perhaps, perhaps not.  It depends on how much time they will spend together, I'm assuming that it won't be much.  Not when Harry will be busy with Winter Knight stuff an trying to keep Molly from losing her humanity.  Yes, Harry and Murphy have a relationship that Harry doesn't but with Molly but those two have a relationship that Murphy doesn't have with Harry.  Molly trusts Harry a heck of a lot more than Murphy does along with loving him.  How that love compares to the love Murphy has for Harry isn't something that I'm sure of but I can easily see it being something that isn't weaker than the love Murphy has.  As for Harry, Molly is someone that he can not have losing her humanity.  She is the daughter of his best male friend, someone that he greatly respects.  She is his apprentice, someone that he is responsible for.  Molly stands to risk losing her humanity partly because of him, Harry will do everything that he can to prevent that.  The best way to do that will be to retain his own humanity and show that that it is possible.  The two of them will likely become each other's anchor.  

It's going to be an amusing experience at times. 





*Spoiler*: _Bergelmir_ 





> Since Michael will be back in the next book, I think Harry will meet Maggie at the end of the book. You just know Michael will be nagging Harry about it. It would be a pretty sweet epilogue.



Perhaps but Dresden is a pretty stubborn person.  We'll see what happens.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 2, 2012)

It still bugs me that 
*Spoiler*: __ 



we never got to see the White Council melt down in apoplectic rage at Harry Dresden, Winter Knight. Minor complaint, given how awesome the book we got was, but still there.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 2, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



is anyone else bugged by how harry becoming the winter knight has somehow made a lot of his allies - including, of all people, murphy - either outright distrust him or (more commonly) express suspicion of him? 

i mean, this is harry dresden we're talking about. the most accomplished manipulator of all the fallen angels, lasciel, stuck around in his head for three whole years and managed to do...what? make him somewhat angrier than usual. that's _it_. you'd think they'd respect his frankly invincible willpower and unshakable moral integrity by this point in their ungrateful lives. no-one appreciates him. it bothers me.

and it may be a little justified, but murph hiding the two swords and acting as if she had some unalienable right to do so really annoyed me, considering that harry was entrusted with them by their actual owners, and murph is just a reluctant knight candidate, and has no real right to possess them until she quits hedging and just takes up fidelacchius already.




also, i just read a fan theory on tvtropes that made me burst out laughing. it was pretty much just one sentence: 'Cowl is Martha Liberty'.


----------



## dream (Dec 2, 2012)

Cromer said:


> It still bugs me that
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



We will likely see the rage in the next book.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 2, 2012)

Lucaniel said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dresden's public image was alwaysa shaky issue.

I mean, in ghost story we get to hear how he had a seriously mean fucking reputation, dropping cars on people, and constantly blowing buildings up and riding zombie T-Rexes to battle, and the last thing he did before he died was wiping out the red court by himself.

They've been through a very rough couple of years, and that scary resurrecting just doesn't instantly sit right with them


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 2, 2012)

sure, but most of the people in question, like andi or butters and certainly murphy, know most of the truth behind his scary rep - and know a lot about the good things he's done, and the sacrifices he's made, etc. - so it still doesn't sit right with me that they turn on him so quickly


----------



## dream (Dec 2, 2012)

Harry's dealings with Lash is different from his situation with Mab, she can order Harry to do things.  Lash couldn't do that and this is what scares them. For all they know she could be forcing Harry to be friendly with them for some nefarious purpose.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 2, 2012)

i suppose the extent of their knowledge affects their reactions, but if they knew more about what lash could do to harry, they'd see that this wasn't the first time they were at risk this way.

for example, remember lash demonstrating that she could easily make harry jump out of a window to his death in Dead Beat, with the illusion of the burning building? it's hardly a stretch to make him perceive murph as nicodemus and get her bumped off, etc.

and if they were privy to the conversation at the end of Ghost Story where he defied mab, they'd surely see that harry was going to remain harry no matter what - but i do see your point.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 2, 2012)

I think some of it is because of their post time skip survival trauma

More than once a creature must have tried the ol' Shapeshifterooney


----------



## Kikyo (Dec 2, 2012)

I think it's partly that most of his allies didn't know about Lash and how much it could affect him. That was pretty much limited to Michael and Forthill. Most of the rest of the Scooby gang had no idea how bad Lash could be.

But they do know more about the Winter Knight and the Sidhe, mostly because of how much Harry distrusted them. And because of Molly, they know a lot more about how magic can change people. They also know that Harry felt that giving into Mab and becoming the Winter Knight scared the shit out of him. The threat of the Winter Knight's mantle on Harry's personality was far more obvious than the Denarian coin for most of them. 

And I agree, more backlash in the next book.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 2, 2012)

If they knew about Lash, they'd probably be even more scared of him


----------



## dream (Dec 2, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> If they knew about Lash, they'd probably be even more scared of him



Probably, Harry giving into Lasciel would be a scary thing.  Far more scary then him being the Winter Knight.

That said, I wonder how Lash will be like in the next book assuming that it is Lash.  Speaking of which, I hope that Lasciel shows up.  That's going to be all kinds of fun.


----------



## Platinum (Dec 2, 2012)

That ending man.

Holy Shit! That ending.


----------



## dream (Dec 2, 2012)

It's probably my favorite ending to a Dresden Files book after the ending of Changes.  The stage it sets for the next book is amazing.


----------



## Detective (Dec 2, 2012)

Platinum said:


> That ending man.
> 
> Holy Shit! That ending.



Which brings us to how Butcher continues to top himself as the series goes further into it's mythos. The fact that he can casually talk about possible events in Book 17 is both amazing and mindblowing to me.

Still cannot wait until that Apocalyptic Series Ending Trilogy.

You know that one of the three titles is going to be either Hell's Bells or Stars and Stones.


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 2, 2012)

Actually, all three titles are going to be based on those swears. So the titles will be Empty Night, Hell's Bells, and Stars and Stones. Jim confirmed this several years ago.


----------



## dream (Dec 2, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Actually, all three titles are going to be based on those swears. So the titles will be Empty Night, Hell's Bells, and Stars and Stones. Jim confirmed this several years ago.



I was a bit annoyed at first with Empty Night being one of the titles as it was a White Court swear word, not too fond of them being major antagonists, but with it being used to refer to Outsiders I've changed my mind.  It's going to be one hell of an ending especially if that is the title of the last book.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 2, 2012)

well, being that the White Court are psychic slavers and predators, even if they're the most benign of the three vampire courts, they're still on the monster-hunting agenda, and although a White vamp being one of the main characters complicates matters, the vast majority of the Court could still use a good bloodline curse

also if this business of lara getting her claws into real government is true, then she's going to have to die sooner or later


----------



## Detective (Dec 3, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Actually, all three titles are going to be based on those swears. So the titles will be Empty Night, Hell's Bells, and Stars and Stones. Jim confirmed this several years ago.



pek

My love for this series has increased that much more. I always thought it was a fandom wish for those titles, because they would be the most appropriate, but I am glad it's canon.


----------



## Jazzmatazz (Dec 3, 2012)

Man. Butcher is the dog. And I remember that going forward each book will be about putting more and more pressure on him by making things continually worse for Harry. Like the ending of Cold Days.


*Spoiler*: __ 



It will obviously be a subject of the next book. But the last Winter Lady wanted to jump Harry's staff something fierce and that was just because the Winter Lady mantle made her a sex crazed fiend. Molly wanted Harry BEFORE becoming he Winter Lady. And now as Harry's superior, she's free to be as agressive with Harry as she could ever want. And could even force him.

And that's an even more beautiful/horrifying aspect. Molly was a mindreading, glamor user already. Now with the ability to supercharge her spells with Winter fae magic? Can't wait to see how things unfold.

And now, to read Cold Days again. See if I can pick out any more hidden bits of foreshadowing and planted Cheknov's guns.


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 3, 2012)

Solaris said:


> I was a bit annoyed at first with Empty Night being one of the titles as it was a White Court swear word, not too fond of them being major antagonists, but with it being used to refer to Outsiders I've changed my mind.  It's going to be one hell of an ending especially if that is the title of the last book.


Huh. I thought it was always obvious that Empty Night basically referred to a the stars in the night dying out. And the Outsiders/Old Ones have clearly been the big baddies since the start.



Lucaniel said:


> also if this business of lara getting her claws into real government is true, then she's going to have to die sooner or later



Definitely. But more than that. I'm a lil worried about what will happen after Lara dies. The White King and the White Court lose their shackles. They might just erupt into sexual carnage.



Detective said:


> pek
> 
> My love for this series has increased that much more. I always thought it was a fandom wish for those titles, because they would be the most appropriate, but I am glad it's canon.



Aye. All three curses are curses for a reason(just like Great Furies in Alera).

My theories for the curses are pretty literal. Empty Night=starless night. Hell's Bells=the bells of Hell, or the bells to signal the Apocalypse. Stars and Stones=meteors, maybe Wormwood?


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 3, 2012)

you know, i really, really, really hope we get to see and meet dresdenverse lucifer. he won't be anything as amazing as neil gaiman and mike carey's lucifer, but a dresden files book called Hell's Bells surely can't be complete without harry meeting him


----------



## Platinum (Dec 3, 2012)

He's met half the heavenly host already.

Might as well meet with their counter parts.


----------



## dream (Dec 3, 2012)

Lucaniel said:


> well, being that the White Court are psychic slavers and predators, even if they're the most benign of the three vampire courts, they're still on the monster-hunting agenda, and although a White vamp being one of the main characters complicates matters, the vast majority of the Court could still use a good bloodline curse
> 
> also if this business of lara getting her claws into real government is true, then she's going to have to die sooner or later



It's not that I don't believe that the White Court shouldn't be wiped out from the planet, it's the exact opposite, I just doesn't like them as antagonists in the sense that their powers don't suit my tastes.  Yes, they are a rather scary group of monsters that can enslave a person with terrifying ease but that's pretty much it besides super strength/speed.  I like villains with more at their beck and call than mind/psychic abilities.

It's frightening to imagine what damage Lara could do.  



Bergelmir said:


> Huh. I thought it was always obvious that Empty Night basically referred to a the stars in the night dying out. And the Outsiders/Old Ones have clearly been the big baddies since the start.
> 
> My theories for the curses are pretty literal. Empty Night=starless night. Hell's Bells=the bells of Hell, or the bells to signal the Apocalypse. Stars and Stones=meteors, maybe Wormwood?



Hmm, for some reason I do remember Empty Night being equated to White Court vampires going hungry or being hungry.


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 3, 2012)

Yeah, I have some hazy memory of Empty Night referring to White Court vamps starving at night with no one around to feed on.

*shrugs* Maybe I've just been on Jim's forums for too long.


----------



## Platinum (Dec 3, 2012)

Maybe things can have multiple meanings ?


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 3, 2012)

the interpretation of 'empty night' as 'a night with no-one for me to have sex with' seems rather...weak. realistically, white court vampires are specialised sexual predators who surely get enough to not make an_oath_ out of being lonely for a night. it must mean something more cataclysmic than that. the night without a moon or stars interpretation seems a lot more sensible to me


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 3, 2012)

Yeah, I don't like it all that much as well. But I can see it working as a White Court swear once you remove the apocalyptic connection. One of their large fears has to be eternal starvation.



Platinum said:


> Maybe things can have multiple meanings ?



Well, yeah. I'm just saying(badly at that), Empty Night meaning no stars just seems... obvious. It just fits with the various hints of the books.


----------



## dream (Dec 3, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Yeah, I have some hazy memory of Empty Night referring to White Court vamps starving at night with no one around to feed on.
> 
> *shrugs* Maybe I've just been on Jim's forums for too long.



Perhaps. 



Platinum said:


> Maybe things can have multiple meanings ?



Never said otherwise.  I merely took Empty Night to be a phrase that was White Court specific as it had never been used to refer to Outsiders before.  



Lucaniel said:


> the interpretation of 'empty night' as 'a night with no-one for me to have sex with' seems rather...weak. realistically, white court vampires are specialised sexual predators who surely get enough to not make an_oath_ out of being lonely for a night. it must mean something more cataclysmic than that. the night without a moon or stars interpretation seems a lot more sensible to me



It may be something that they are skilled enough to attain but it is probably amongst their most undesired things.  They live off of the energy/emoticons they feed of people, I can certainly see them making a curse for them going a day/night without it.  Do remember that curses don't have to have epic meanings.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 3, 2012)

i guess it could be the white court's 'oh, crap'. 

which makes lara's reaction upon recognising harry in Blood Rites a lot more underwhelming


----------



## dream (Dec 3, 2012)

Lucaniel said:


> i guess it could be the white court's 'oh, crap'.
> 
> which makes lara's reaction upon recognising harry in Blood Rites a lot more underwhelming



That isn't a big loss.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 3, 2012)

true enough, and besides, he hadn't even ridden a zombie dinosaur at that point


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 3, 2012)

Lucaniel said:


> you know, i really, really, really hope we get to see and meet dresdenverse lucifer. he won't be anything as amazing as neil gaiman and mike carey's lucifer, but a dresden files book called Hell's Bells surely can't be complete without harry meeting him



Pretty sure Lucifer is 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Nemesis


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 3, 2012)

Also, regarding empty night


*Spoiler*: __ 



 The moon and the outter gates are connected somehow. There was this whole thing I don't remember about, and there's also the fact that it has been confirmed that one of the tasks for the gatekeeper, is to able to walk on the surface of the moon in his casual wear.

My theory is that the moon _is_ the Outer gate, and when it opens, it'll be completly black spreading darkness all over the land
Thus
Empty Night


----------



## dream (Dec 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Pretty sure Lucifer is
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



Somehow I don't believe that.  


*Spoiler*: __ 




While it's certainly true that Lucifer capable of being the final villain the impression that I had of Nemesis was that he was an outsider of some sorts.  Lucifer would fit well in the role but I get the feeling that we would be seeing a hell of a lot more angel involvement if that was the case.  I suspect that the swords would have been used in _Cold Days_ if that was true.  In any case, if it really was Lucifer I feel that Nic and his Fallen would be aware of how he works and his abilities enough to realize what was going on and actually support it.  In Small Favor he was aware of the Black Council but he didn't seem to be too pleased about them and the shit that Nemesis was doing assuming that he even knew about Nemesis at that point.  






Banhammer said:


> Also, regarding empty night
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Perhaps, there is a word of god that stated that it's difficult to travel beyond the moon using Nevernever so it makes sense to a degree.


----------



## Platinum (Dec 3, 2012)

I can totally see that being the big L.


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 3, 2012)

*Spoiler*: _On Lucifer_ 



I think it would be neat if Lucifer is the vessel for Nemesis. Or corrupted by Nemesis. Maybe the Nemesis corruption is reason Lucifer rebelled and Fell.




Also, a question on the final Cold Days showdown.
*Spoiler*: __ 



Anyone else find it weird that Maeve's mantle didn't fly to Harry or Mab? Back in Summer Knight,  Aurora says that when a Knight dies, its mantle goes to the nearest reflection of itself - the nearest Queen. And when Aurora died, her power did the same. It flew into the then Summer Knight - Lily. So it really doesn't make sense for Maeve's mantle to go to Molly.

Also, Winter likes M-names for their Queens. Huh.


----------



## dream (Dec 3, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: _On Lucifer_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: _On Lucifer_ 



I would hate that.  






*Spoiler*: _Final Showdown_ 



Perhaps Mab willed it to Molly instead of it going to her or Harry?


----------



## Platinum (Dec 3, 2012)

I'm a little miffed Butcher denied us a Mister vs Cat Sith throwdown.

also:


*Spoiler*: __ 



 Harry kind of isn't qualified to be the winter lady by virtue of not being a lady? This shouldn't be a surprise to you.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 3, 2012)

d'you mean molly

or did i miss something in the finale


----------



## dream (Dec 3, 2012)

Platinum said:


> I'm a little miffed Butcher denied us a Mister vs Cat Sith throwdown.
> 
> also:
> 
> ...






*Spoiler*: _On the Winter Lady_ 



I honestly don't know, don't remember it being stated that men can't have the power of the Winter Lady though perhaps it was.  Perhaps he wouldn't become the Winter Lady/Lord but the power could temporarily reside in him. /shrug


----------



## Kikyo (Dec 3, 2012)

*Spoiler*: _Lucifer_ 



oh please no. I would really prefer the Denarians and the Outsiders were completely separate threats in this world.





*Spoiler*: _Winter Lady_ 



The mantle would have gone to Mab, she was right there. Mab would have sent it to Molly.

And you know, the "M" names just didn't occur to me.  /oblivious


----------



## Platinum (Dec 3, 2012)

Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: _On the Winter Lady_
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly don't know, don't remember it being stated that men can't have the power of the Winter Lady though perhaps it was.  Perhaps he wouldn't become the Winter Lady/Lord but the power could temporarily reside in him. /shrug




*Spoiler*: __ 



Does it really need to be stated that dudes can't have the power of the winter LADY?


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 3, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



d'you know, all of this is making me increasingly sold on the idea of Harry being the winter lady and having to go through all the motions of maeve's sadistic-slut-from-hell routine. in nothing but body jewelry

which may mean i need some sleep


----------



## dream (Dec 3, 2012)

Platinum said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Does it really need to be stated that dudes can't have the power of the winter LADY?




*Spoiler*: __ 



It certainly isn't impossible, I remember seeing similar things in various other fictions.

Winter Lady is just a title.  As far as we know it is only a female that bears the mantle of the Winter Lady because Mab and Mother Winter prefer it that way.


----------



## Kikyo (Dec 3, 2012)

Lucaniel said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh god, the eyes in my brain are bleeding!


----------



## Platinum (Dec 3, 2012)

Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm pretty sure Butcher has said Santa is the Winter King. 

It's a title for a reason preet. Some titles are gender only, stop being such a shit.


----------



## dream (Dec 3, 2012)

Platinum said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 




Yes, Santa is the Winter King.

It's a title for the sole reason that as far as we know every Lady has been a female, anything beyond that is just wild speculation.  That doesn't mean that a male can't bear the mantle of the Winter Lady.  The title can easily be changed to Winter Lord.  Until Butcher says otherwise it's a possibility.


----------



## Platinum (Dec 3, 2012)

Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



No it's not. Why on Earth would title's be so malleable in the land of The Fae? Creatures kind of known for doing things in a specific way and not being able to do it any other?


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 3, 2012)

Aww. No one likes my Lucifer theory. I thought it would be cool. 


*Spoiler*: _Winter Lady_ 



Okay, forget Harry. Mab was still right there. She should have just absorbed the mantle, and released it later to a fey of her choosing. Instead, the mantle jumped straight into Molly.

I mean, its possible Lea did something to her, but still. It doesn't fit. 






Lucaniel said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 3, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



it _is_ a bit weird that it jumped straight to molly. she sure didn't have a shadow of winter's power in her, which as i recall is the theory behind how a mantle is attracted to you. 

and on your lucifer theory...it might work that he's corrupted by nemesis, but it would be very cheapening if that was the reason for his fall - i don't think butcher would be able to swing that


----------



## Platinum (Dec 4, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



 Are you guys forgetting the parts where Mab said she prepped molly as her back up plan for the winter lady and she already had the qualities needed?


----------



## dream (Dec 4, 2012)

Platinum said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not. Why on Earth would title's be so malleable in the land of The Fae? Creatures kind of known for doing things in a specific way and not being able to do it any other?




*Spoiler*: __ 




We have no idea if the title is tied intimately with the mantle or rather if it is used to describe the person holding the mantle.  If it is the former then yes, Harry would not be able to receive the Mantle.  If it is the latter then the title is something that can be changed depending on which gender is wearing it or not.  The nature of the Fae would not matter in such a situation.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 4, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



i just re-read that, and fair enough

incidentally, mab's little hannibal lecture to harry about how she's done nothing to molly that he didn't do is bullshit. just objectively. for this part: "You made her curious about what you could do, and nurtured that curiosity with silence. *Then when she went to explore the Art, you elected not to interfere*"

harry didn't 'elect' not to interfere. he _had no idea_ about what she was doing, until like two thirds of the way through Proven Guilty. if he had an idea, he'd have stopped her immediately or taken her on so she didn't find herself in 'dire straits'. 

i can't believe he doesn't call mab on her bullshit there and then

though, this:



> Mab moved so quickly that I literally never saw it. The gun was suddenly, simply gone from my hand and was being pushed into my face—in exactly the same spot where Maeve had been shot.
> 
> “I,” Mab said coolly, “am not your servant, Dresden. You are mine.”
> 
> ...



is a crowning moment of awesome, for me.


----------



## dream (Dec 4, 2012)

Lucaniel said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 




That's my favorite part of the book, had no idea that Demonreach was capable enough to possibly even do such a thing.


----------



## Luna (Dec 4, 2012)

This series just keeps getting better and better!


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 4, 2012)

Solaris said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



well, considering that naagloshii are on minimum-security and there are apparently Old Ones or the dresdenverse equivalent down below, some of the beings in Demonreach might actually be in Mab's power ballpark

and of course, Mab's on the island so home field advantage goes to Demonreach, which makes a lot of difference


----------



## dream (Dec 4, 2012)

Lucaniel said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 




There probably are a few entities that are just as strong as Mab.  Knowing Butcher...I get the feeling that the inmates are going to escape/be let out at one point or another. 

If I remember correctly, it was stated that Demonreach was rather weak when off of the island which makes sense.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 4, 2012)

Solaris said:


> Somehow I don't believe that.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 




Unless Nicodemus and Lucifer


Are competitors 

But you're right, if lucy was involved there would be more swords






> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps, there is a word of god that stated that it's difficult to travel beyond the moon using Nevernever so it makes sense to a degree.


Honnestly it's rather that or an 
*Spoiler*: __ 



eclipse. 






Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I think it would be neat if Lucifer is the vessel for Nemesis. Or corrupted by Nemesis. Maybe the Nemesis corruption is reason Lucifer rebelled and Fell.



*Spoiler*: __ 



Well what I do know is that 
*Spoiler*: __ 



it aint that much of a spoiler if you call it ON LUCIFER










> Also, a question on the final Cold Days showdown.
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...


Mab was there. that was probably it. Remember 
*Spoiler*: __ 



maeve goes on a rant about WHOM WILL YOU CHOOSE MOTHER?


----------



## Cromer (Dec 4, 2012)

So essentially, Mab 
*Spoiler*: __ 



CHOSE for the mantle to fly to Molly. Way to arm yourself with awesomeness in one fell swoop


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 10, 2012)

There was a notoriously small amount of Winter Is Coming jokes


----------



## Cromer (Dec 10, 2012)

Obviously Harry isn't a big fan of GRRM


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 10, 2012)

Maybe Odin also has the mantle of Ned Stark


----------



## Jazzmatazz (Dec 11, 2012)

Speaking of lack of...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Was Lea anywhere in the book? She was mentioned a few times, but I don't think she once appeared. That's got to be significant.


----------



## dream (Dec 11, 2012)

Eman5805 said:


> Speaking of lack of...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



She didn't appear at all.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Dec 18, 2012)

Just finished


*Spoiler*: __ 



 Naked Dresden kicking ass with Ice fisticuffs with spikes on them. No wonder everybody got rocked .


----------



## Random Stranger (Dec 22, 2012)

I thought about it and I take back what I said about the finale of Cold Days being disappointing. It's my own fault, I shouldn't have been that surprised since Dresden Files boss fights are usually the weakest, it's the fights right before those that are usually the boner-inducing seat-wettingly awesome. It's one of his story telling formula that hasnt Changed.

Also

*Spoiler*: __ 






> Sweetly curved Andi was the most vulnerable. If I could isolate her from the herd, things could get interesting. I’d just saved her life, after all. She owed me. I could think of a few ways that she could express her gratitude.





> I looked aside at him. As hunting partners went, Fix didn’t look like much, but I’d seen him in action before. He was no one to underestimate. And I needed him. Once I didn’t, things might change, because he was on my island and that wasn’t something I could let slide. But for now I could do worse than to have him at my side.






FAP FAP FAP

Am I the only ones who hopes we see more of Darth Dresden in the next book?


----------



## Ippy (Jan 5, 2013)

I just started this series a week ago, and I'm currently on the fourth book.

I take one issue so far...
*Spoiler*: __ 



...his misplaced guilt!

He constantly blames himself for the idiotic decisions made by the women in his life.

Murphy spent good portions of the first and second books undermining everything he was trying to do, despite _her consulting him_, knowing full well that he was the expert in all things supernatural.  As far as I'm concerned, the massacre at Chicago PD was all her fault (she seriously arrested him despite all signs pointing at it NOT being him!?!?!?).  She is a monkey, fumbling in ignorance, hurling feces with no regard for where it lands.

Susan, mainly in the third book, got herself in trouble when she invited herself to that vampire's ball, despite not knowing a damn thing about their etiquette and rules... and this is *after *she saw that not-quite-so-friendly invitation issued by the Wonder Twins.

And don't get me started on the completely nonsensical "don't try to protect me!" shit they pull on him.  They are completely and totally ignorant of each and every single danger that pops up, and yet they try to act like they know what's up... forcing Harry to put himself into even more danger in just about every book.  If the guy says that you're better off not knowing, then just take his goddamn word for it.  Obviously there's a reason.

Misplaced pride is the bane of humanity.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 5, 2013)

Difence is, harry is the one that can explode people's skulls with his mind, and allowed himself to be deterred by people's opinions

With great power, comes great accountability.
I'm glad he feels conflicted about the consequences of his life to the people around him


----------



## Jazzmatazz (Jan 12, 2013)

MMAthematician said:


> I just started this series a week ago, and I'm currently on the fourth book.
> 
> I take one issue so far...
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Putting this in spoilers, but I'm not really spoiling anything. Just to be safe...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Harry's whole thing is that he feels responsible for every single muggle in his life, and Butcher makes sure they're all women, who he's even MORE susceptible to feel responsible. It's why he goes ballistic when someone hurts a woman or a kid. Or a woman kid...er, little girl.

I like it. He can't control Susan or Murphy's actions which is why he feels the need to protect them. But being the strong, independent women they are, they feel the need to buck against him. Like you said, they're ignorant. But they're also stubborn. Two deadly combinations in this world.

And the thing about them being ignorant is they're so because Harry keeps them ignorant by not telling them anything. Like at the start of Fool Moon, he could've told the girl exactly, word for word why she should leave the circle alone. Hell, he could've SHOWN her why she couldn't hold the circle and only get herself killed. But he didn't. And she dies for it trying to help McFinn. He makes the decision that she should just take him on faith, but it doesn't work.

He often is directly responsible for people he claims to protect being hurt for one reason or another. Butcher gets better at setting these things up in later books as you'll find out, but again, like how he handles it.


----------



## Cyphon (Jan 28, 2013)

Finally got around to reading and now finishing *Cold Days*. With so many books I have lost track of where I would rank books in this series. What I do know though, is that this was a really good book and I continue to fall more and more in love with this series. Jim Butcher somehow manages a perfect balance of casual writing with depth, along with balancing the real world, magic world, romance and whatever else you can think of. It truly is impressive in a story so big that is only going to get bigger. The concistency here is incredible. 

What I also love is how we just continue to get fed small bits of just how deep this goes but at the same time the pacing never feels slow. We get huge awesome problems while being told there are even bigger more awesomer problems. 


I am not sure if anyone brought this up or anyone else will feel the same way but the one thing in this book that really threw me off was when Harry was asked about gays. It was such a jarring conversation that I was completely taken out of the book for a moment. It felt so political and real life that I forgot I was even reading the Dresden Files. It was even more jarring because I have always Felt Harry kind of _is_ Jim Butcher. So what we hear from Harry is probably a lot like how Butcher actually is. In this case though, it felt straight up just like Jim Butcher with no character in it at all.


*Edit:* To be fair I should also add that at times I found the book to be really formulaic, even though I do like Butchers style. With so many books it is bound to happen but IMO, it shouldn't happen so consistently in seemingly the same way. Butcher needs to throw us some style curveballs now and again.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 31, 2013)

I liked the gays moment, and I don't think it's pure butcher because, Codex Alera, but I did because I saw it purely as in a way of the faerie queen trying to explain that love, for faeries, is very complicated
Be they magical or the mundane kind


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 25, 2013)

book #15 of The Dresden Files, Skin Game.


----------



## dream (Feb 25, 2013)

Interesting title I suppose especially with this book being about Denarians.


----------



## Kikyo (Feb 25, 2013)

Denarians and skin walkers? Maybe some of the ugly things in Demon's Reach? Should be interesting.


----------



## dream (Feb 25, 2013)

Don't forget about Ivy, she always shows up with Denarians.


----------



## Bergelmir (Feb 25, 2013)

And Sanya! And hopefully Michael too. Hell, maybe this is where we'll get a new bearer for either Amoracchius or Fidelacchius.


----------



## dream (Feb 28, 2013)

Bergelmir said:


> And Sanya! And hopefully Michael too. Hell, maybe this is where we'll get a new bearer for either Amoracchius or Fidelacchius.



Some info about book 15 from a book signing:


*Spoiler*: __ 





> Ok, the next novel in the Dresden Files is called Skin Game, it?s a heist. Mab goes to Harry and says, ?You have to help this guy steal something?. And the person they?re ripping it off from is the lord of the underworld, Hades, who has repurposed Daedalus? labyrinth as his, kind of as his personal safe. So Harry and Nicodemus are off to rip off the lord of hell. We?ll see how that goes.
> 
> **Unintelligible audience comment**
> 
> ...


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Feb 28, 2013)

Damn....Dresden really has hands full in this one.


----------



## Bergelmir (Feb 28, 2013)

Solaris said:


> Some info about book 15 from a book signing:






*Spoiler*: __ 



Nick is back!  Considering their last encounter, its going to be really interesting to see Harry interact with him now that he's all beefed up on Faerie juice.


----------



## Kikyo (Feb 28, 2013)

I think everyone is gonna enjoy this one. Mab is a sick sob isn't she?


----------



## dream (Feb 28, 2013)

Can't wait to see what Ivy is going to do to the Denarians. 

Also, if Butcher doesn't start shipping Harry x Molly I will end him.


----------



## dream (May 7, 2013)

I like how pairing fans crawled out of the wood works and have infested Butcher's DF Spoilers forum.  Thankfully us Harry/Molly fans are out in force to make sure that Molly wins the various polls. 

Sadly it seems that I've become a rather massive Harry x Molly shipper, if those two don't end up getting together romantically at the end of the books I'm pretty sure that my enjoyment of the series will suffer. 

_Skin Games Predictions_

Harry meets with a Titan, perhaps Cronos.
Harry finally becomes a bit receptive to the idea of hooking up with Molly...yeah I'm reaching but a man can dream. 
Lash appears
Ivy lays the smackdown on one or more of the Denarians.
Sanya will die along with a new knight taking up a sword.
Murphy will continue to infuriate me. 
Charity is going to slap Dresdenn. 
Lara or Mavra will play a decently big role.
Harry gets training from Injun Joe.

---
Just in-case people weren't aware, the paperback version of _Cold Days_ will release on September 3rd and will contain the first two chapters of _Skin Games_.  _Skin Games_ itself should get a late October or November release.


----------



## dream (May 29, 2013)

Butcher reading the first few chapters of Skin Games.


----------



## Lucaniel (May 30, 2013)

>shipping people

nope


----------



## Banhammer (May 30, 2013)

Holy shit, that can't be right, he takes forever to cocktease us with one chapter after another only weeks before release

How can he be that far in if he's already writing steam punk series?

Jeezus Jim


----------



## Banhammer (May 30, 2013)

Those chapters are so fucking amazing



PARKOUR


----------



## Bergelmir (May 30, 2013)

I love the voices Jim uses. I can't stop laughing.


----------



## Banhammer (May 30, 2013)

I really can't stand any denarian that isn't Nicodemus, specially his daughter, but these chapters are just too amazing


----------



## Bergelmir (May 30, 2013)

I'm pretty okay with the Denarians. It helps that with a few exceptions, they're either being silent fodder or snarling beasties.

I do hope we get more conversations with the Fallen though, as opposed to their hosts. I really want to see what Anduriel is like.


----------



## dream (May 30, 2013)

Lucaniel said:


> >shipping people
> 
> nope



Shipping is awesome. 



			
				Banhammer said:
			
		

> Those chapters are so fucking amazing
> 
> PARKOUR



This is probably one of the better opening chapters for a Dresden Files book in recent memory or at least it is my favorite. 


*Spoiler*: _Skin Games_ 




Any thoughts on who Dresden will take along with him?  The three obvious choices are Murphy, Thomas, or Molly.  Murphy is probably unlikely because without a sword she wouldn't exactly be too helpful and with a sword the situation might become a bit too volatile between them and the Denarians.  Molly would be a good choice but her Winter Lady duties might prevent her from coming along though this might be really good for Molly's image if she and the Winter Knight come up ontop of people like Nicodemus and whatever freaks he will be bringing along.  

Ebenezar could be fantastic as well.  My personal favorite choice is Ivy, she does have a bone to pick with the Denarians.


----------



## Banhammer (May 30, 2013)

As if her bodyguaard would ever let her

Anyway, there's a part 2 in  case you missed it.


----------



## dream (May 30, 2013)

Banhammer said:


> As if her bodyguaard would ever let her



Well, Ivy certainly is going to be involved because she has been in every single book with the Denarians.  Whether she comes along with Dresden or not she will have some role to play in the books.  Kinclaid could stop her from coming along but that would likely have to be through some kind of force and I'm not sure if he would resort to such a thing against her.


----------



## Banhammer (May 30, 2013)

Might just be Bob

Also, I'm pretty sure they're out to nab the golden fleece


----------



## Random Stranger (May 30, 2013)

While on the one hand I am happy to get the first four chapters so early, on the other hand I kinda feel bad for Jim, because the person who recorded and uploaded this most likely abused his trust.

With that being said, the person Harry is going to take with him is most likely Michael Carpenter (I remember reading in an interview that he said Michael would get off the bench for this book) or Murphy (while I am not a big fan of her and her Waif-Fu, Jim seems to have a thing for her) Oher likely choices are Thomas and Jared number-one-Denarian-slayer Kincaid (okay I admit the last one is more of a wishful thinking ).


----------



## dream (May 30, 2013)

Random Stranger said:
			
		

> While on the one hand I am happy to get the first four chapters so early, on the other hand I kinda feel bad for Jim, because the person who recorded and uploaded this most likely abused his trust.



Butcher is supposedly fine with recordings of the reading being on the internet. 



> With that being said, the person Harry is going to take with him is most likely Michael Carpenter (I remember reading in an interview that he said Michael would get off the bench for this book) or Murphy (while I am not a big fan of her and her Waif-Fu, Jim seems to have a thing for her)



Eh...I'm dubious on Michael coming along with Harry.  I'm sure that Michael will be playing a big supporting role but last I recall his leg was injured and I can't see him taking up a sword again.  

As for Kincaid...I'm a bit dubious on that though Kincaid will certainly be more than happy to come along.


----------



## Banhammer (May 30, 2013)

Butcher talked for nearly 45 minutes.
I think he probably knew there was a camera on him


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 6, 2013)

Here


----------



## dream (Aug 7, 2013)

Read the excerpt a few days ago and I can't say that I'm particularly looking forward to it.  I'll probably only read it to see more examples of how much Molly cares about Harry for shipping purposes.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 7, 2013)

Dammit, I came in expecting something about Skin Games.


----------



## dream (Sep 2, 2013)

Butcher revealed some slightly interesting information at Dragoncon revolving around Ebenezer and Thomas.

[sp]


> Ebenezer is well aware that Thomas is his grandson. He is not happy about it and it is something he'd rather not know.



I like how Ebenezer isn't too pleased.  [/sp]


----------



## Zorp (Sep 2, 2013)

^ Seems right in line with Ebenezer's personality.  I can't see those two seeing eye-to-eye on a whole lot.  He won't be calling Thomas "Hoss" anytime soon, that's for sure.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 29, 2013)

A couple of details on skin games


*Spoiler*: __ 




Murphy is going to be Harry's partner
The carpenter family doesn't know about molly because she's been keeping up the act/going to sunday dinner and shit


----------



## dream (Sep 30, 2013)

Banhammer said:


> A couple of details on skin games
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 




Murphy?  Fuck you, Butcher. 

Anyways, I'm really glad that Molly has been visiting her family.  That should help her keep her humanity morose than she would have had Mab kept her cut off from her family/friends and her family's reaction when they learn is bound to be fun.


----------



## crazymtf (Oct 1, 2013)

How is this series holding up? I read first four and enjoyed them years ago but book 5 was kind meh. Does it pick up again?


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 1, 2013)

mugga plz ban yourself


----------



## dream (Oct 1, 2013)

crazymtf said:


> How is this series holding up? I read first four and enjoyed them years ago but book 5 was kind meh. Does it pick up again?



I'm surprised that you liked the first two books but didn't like the fifth.  It's generally accepted that the first two books are the weakest.  In any case, the series does pick up from there so please do continue reading the books.  Book six is good but if you can make it to book seven you'll be hooked for good.


----------



## crazymtf (Oct 1, 2013)

Nice. I heard book 10 or 11, forgot which, is the top of the series so far. I do like the humor in it and they are fun reads.


----------



## dream (Oct 1, 2013)

crazymtf said:


> Nice. I heard book 10 or 11, forgot which, is the top of the series so far. I do like the humor in it and they are fun reads.



I would say that the seventh book is the best but the tenth and eleventh books are up there as well.


----------



## Nimander (Oct 11, 2013)

Can FINALLY post here as I just got around to reading Cold Days this week, despite having it on my laptop pretty much since the week it came out.

I liked the story for what it was. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed to me that the humor that flowed so effortlessly in past novels was a bit forced in places here, which took away from some of the enjoyment of Harry's wiseasscrackery, which is one of the things I enjoy most about the novels. Actually did NOT see the "tweest" at the very end. Hell, there was more than one and I didn't see a damn one of them coming at all. So good on Butcher for still being able to pull one over on us genre saavy readers out here. 

I do have to say though, I like "new" Harry. You really can see how he's grown, and how the experiences of the last two books have irrevocably changed him for the better. He appreciates those around him more. He's more aware of his weaknesses, but accepts and recognizes them, and doesn't let them define him. So, needless to say, I'm looking forward to where Butcher is going to take his character. Because it's finally been out and stated, though it was obvious to readers before, that things are very quickly going to get much worse in Harry's world.


----------



## Jazzmatazz (Oct 20, 2013)

I can't puzzle out how Fitz is going to play into the story. I doubt Butcher would bring in a kid with an obvious talent, minor that it is, just for giggles then forget about him.

And I can't wait to see Harry try to establish something more like normalcy. Things are going to continue getting worse, obviously, but he's gotta try or he wouldn't be Harry.


----------



## Zorp (Oct 20, 2013)

Dream said:


> I would say that the seventh book is the best but the tenth and eleventh books are up there as well.



Dead Beat is glorious, I agree.



Nimander said:


> Can FINALLY post here as I just got around to reading Cold Days this week, despite having it on my laptop pretty much since the week it came out.
> 
> I liked the story for what it was. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed to me that the humor that flowed so effortlessly in past novels was a bit forced in places here, which took away from some of the enjoyment of Harry's wiseasscrackery, which is one of the things I enjoy most about the novels. Actually did NOT see the "tweest" at the very end. Hell, there was more than one and I didn't see a damn one of them coming at all. So good on Butcher for still being able to pull one over on us genre saavy readers out here.
> 
> I do have to say though, I like "new" Harry. You really can see how he's grown, and how the experiences of the last two books have irrevocably changed him for the better. He appreciates those around him more. He's more aware of his weaknesses, but accepts and recognizes them, and doesn't let them define him. So, needless to say, I'm looking forward to where Butcher is going to take his character. Because it's finally been out and stated, though it was obvious to readers before, that things are very quickly going to get much worse in Harry's world.



Yeah, the humor was being pushed more than it should have been in a not-so-natural way at times.  Still thought Cold Days was in the upper half of the series, though.  Harry started re-assessing himself with Ghost Story, but we see him mature more in Cold Days, I think.  Which is wonderful.  Charging into danger has always been part of his personality, but he realizes that it can grossly impact those around him, even if he saves the day in the end.  He has better self-control now and observation of others, among other things.



Jazzmatazz said:


> I can't puzzle out how Fitz is going to play into the story. I doubt Butcher would bring in a kid with an obvious talent, minor that it is, just for giggles then forget about him.
> 
> And I can't wait to see Harry try to establish something more like normalcy. Things are going to continue getting worse, obviously, but he's gotta try or he wouldn't be Harry.



Maybe Mort will take Fitz under his wing, although he doesn't seem to be the "teacher type."

I, too, want Harry to have a bit of normalcy.  It physically pained me when he lost his apartment.  I had grown almost as attached to his rugs, bookshelves, and ice box as much as Harry had.  I hope he can establish a homely threshold once more.  Something to call his own.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 21, 2013)

you people are crazy, Cold Days is top 3 of the whole series


----------



## Platinum (Oct 21, 2013)

I don't know it didn't have Harry riding a dinosaur .


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 21, 2013)

Harry Riding a Dinossaur
Harry Slaughtering the Red Court
Harry Riding the Wild Hunt in a giant Puma Motorcycle escorted by the Earl King and Saint Klaus


----------



## Cyphon (Oct 22, 2013)

I don't remember all of the books and what numbers they were but looking back at my old posts it looks like Turn Coat and the one where he saves his daughter were 2 of my favorites.


----------



## Nimander (Oct 25, 2013)

I'm on my fourth re-read of TWoT, but I'm thinking this series is due for one soon too.


----------



## dream (Nov 15, 2013)

Twitter said:
			
		

> Just finished writing the finale of Skin Game. Now it's just the wrap-up chapter and we'll get it moving toward print.





Fantastic news.


----------



## Zorp (Nov 15, 2013)

Can't wait.  I've been going through Dresden withdrawal for the last few weeks.


----------



## dream (Nov 18, 2013)

> The most satisfying words I ever type are: THE END.





Hoping that we get the book sometime in the next two months.


----------



## Detective (Nov 21, 2013)

I just learned today that it's not going to be released in December as I had initially read, but had purposely avoided this thread for any spoilers during the last couple of months... all for nothing.


----------



## kazuri (Nov 21, 2013)

Is there any particular reason these books cost more than the average fantasy book of the same size? I really wanted to read this series but theres so many books and each one costs several dollars more than other fantasy books. I'll probably get around to reading them but theres no end to the supply of good fantasy I could read for 2/3 of the price..



> Hoping that we get the book sometime in the next two months.



I really doubt that. Based on the authors I check up on with twitter it can take 6-12 months to go through the editing and actual publishing phases.


----------



## Kikyo (Nov 21, 2013)

kazuri said:


> I really doubt that. Based on the authors I check up on with twitter it can take 6-12 months to go through the editing and actual publishing phases.



Truth. I worked in publishing. It can go faster than that, but it's more expensive to go fast. A year is typical. 3-9 months of editing (established authors usually takes less time in editing than new authors and how concerned the main editor is about grammar and continuity and such will also affect the time spent here) and 3 months in typesetting before it goes to the printers, who can take a month or more to actually print and ship, then some more time before the publisher distributes to the stores. Most books do get an ARC/E (Advanced Reader Copy/Edition) somewhere in typesetting to see what the book will actually look like when it's printed, even though there's still some editing and typos and formatting to fix. Those get leaked occasionally, it's possible to see an ARC for this book in January.


----------



## Zhen Chan (Nov 22, 2013)

kazuri said:


> Is there any particular reason these books cost more than the average fantasy book of the same size? I really wanted to read this series but theres so many books and each one costs several dollars more than other fantasy books. I'll probably get around to reading them but theres no end to the supply of good fantasy I could read for 2/3 of the price..
> 
> 
> 
> I really doubt that. Based on the authors I check up on with twitter it can take 6-12 months to go through the editing and actual publishing phases.



10 buck too expensive?


----------



## kazuri (Nov 22, 2013)

> 10 buck too expensive?



Its not 10 bucks. Its 150 if I want all 15 books. When I could get 15 at the typical price for only 105. Thats a net loss of almost 6 books.


----------



## Zhen Chan (Nov 23, 2013)

kazuri said:


> Its not 10 bucks. Its 150 if I want all 15 books. When I could get 15 at the typical price for only 105. Thats a net loss of almost 6 books.



Skip the first 3 then, you aren't missing anything. See now you've cut your losses.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 26, 2013)

^and there are omnibus editions out, cheaper overall.


----------



## dream (Dec 16, 2013)

The cover for Skin Games has been revealed:

[sp]

[/sp]

Pretty decent cover.

Here's to hoping that Butcher doesn't kill off the Harry/Molly pairing in this book or in any of the upcoming ones.


----------



## Zhen Chan (Dec 16, 2013)

Molly and Harry are never happening.

Harry and Murphy are set in stone


----------



## dream (Dec 16, 2013)

Guriko of Suzuran said:


> Molly and Harry are never happening.
> 
> Harry and Murphy are set in stone



Harry and Molly can end up together.  The only things keeping them apart is that Harry has known Molly since since she was young and the fact that Harry doesn't romantically like her.  With time Harry can get over the issue of having known her since she was a teenager.  As for him not liking her romantically...that can easily change as well.  He does love her/like her, wouldn't be a stretch to have that become a romantic love especially as she is now the Winter Lady and thus in a position of power over him.  He can't just see her as the daughter of his best friend and apprentice anymore.  She's now someone that is his superior.  It's a change that is bound to significantly alter their relationship, perhaps enough to make Dresden start seeing her in a romantic light. 

Harry and Murphy ending up together is likely but it isn't set in stone.  They have their own issues keeping Murphy from becoming involved with him.


----------



## dream (Dec 16, 2013)

Guriko of Suzuran said:


> I've heard the first 4 chaps of skin game but there was no romance mentioned



Well, romance isn't a huge part of the books so that isn't too surprising.


----------



## Seraphiel (Dec 16, 2013)

Dream said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Yep it's her. Jim also said that we will see in this book why being a nice guy/Knight of The Cross doesn't always save you from bad stuff. That's what I was referring to


----------



## dream (Dec 16, 2013)

Seraphiel said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Yep it's her. Jim also said that we will see in this book why being a nice guy/Knight of The Cross doesn't always save you from bad stuff. That's what I was referring to




*Spoiler*: __ 



Can I get a link to where he said it? 

I'm hoping that something bad happens to Murphy, hopefully her death.


----------



## Seraphiel (Dec 16, 2013)

Dream said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



You mind if I wait until tomorrow, it just struck midnight on my b-day so I'm gonna have to deal with calls and stuff and I don't feel like looking through the Word of Jim section of his own forums. If not I'll get to it tomorrow.

 Unless you feel like looking for it.


----------



## dream (Dec 16, 2013)

I don't mind waiting until tomorrow.


----------



## Seraphiel (Dec 16, 2013)

Dream said:


> I don't mind waiting until tomorrow.



I'm looking for it now :3

Edit: found it, source is kansas city signing Q&A, last part of the quote.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 16, 2013)

Man, that cover looks to be Small Favor-tier, so fucking sexy!


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 16, 2013)

God, that Skin Games cover is beautiful. Fantastic work, as usual.

Has the release date been announced yet? I checked Amazon, and they're saying July.


----------



## Seraphiel (Dec 16, 2013)

Bergelmir said:


> God, that Skin Games cover is beautiful. Fantastic work, as usual.
> 
> Has the release date been announced yet? I checked Amazon, and they're saying July.



Inside sources aka Priscilla Spencer says March, since last few years it was always 4 months after Jim finished it, and we know it's finished and his editor is done with it too, so July is too far away probably, March or April.


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 16, 2013)

Cool. March sounds about right. More than enough time to do the annual re-read of the series.


Also, I'm listening to Jim's Space Con panel, and he mentions that he has a Dresden Files spin-off in mind.  I wonder who he's considering for the main character.


----------



## dream (Dec 16, 2013)

Seraphiel said:


> I'm looking for it now :3
> 
> Edit: found it, source is kansas city signing Q&A, last part of the quote.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Hopefully it is Murphy that bites the dust and not Sanya or even Michael if he picks up the sword again. 







Seraphiel said:


> Inside sources aka Priscilla Spencer says March, since last few years it was always 4 months after Jim finished it, and we know it's finished and his editor is done with it too, so July is too far away probably, March or April.



March or April would be nice.



Bergelmir said:


> Also, I'm listening to Jim's Space Con panel, and he mentions that he has a Dresden Files spin-off in mind.  I wonder who he's considering for the main character.



Carlos.


----------



## Seraphiel (Dec 16, 2013)

I don't think we will see a spin off too soon since Jim is writing The Cinder Spires too, book 1 should be out in 2014.


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 16, 2013)

Oh yeah, I doubt its coming soon, if it comes at all. I assume the spin off will be after the Cinder Spires, or after Jim's done with the finale Trilogy. So years later. But its neat to know the world might continue once the main series is over.



Dream said:


> Carlos.


Yessss. That would be fantastic.


----------



## dream (Dec 16, 2013)

Is Carlos still a virgin?


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 16, 2013)

I don't think its been brought up since White Knight... so, yes. 

Actually, I would love a Carlos and Sanya buddy cop series. Or series of short stories.


----------



## dream (Dec 16, 2013)

Poor Carlos. 

Beyond Carlos I can see Elaine having a spin-off series once her role in the books is over.  Molly could have had one before becoming the Winter Lady.


----------



## Seraphiel (Dec 16, 2013)

The only spinoff he mentioned that I remember is Maggy Jr and only if he has gambling debts rofl :3

Also did you guys read Bombshells?


----------



## dream (Dec 16, 2013)

I've yet to read Bombshells.  Hopefully I'll have some time to do so tomorrow.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 16, 2013)

I've read it

tis cool


----------



## dream (Dec 17, 2013)

Read Bombshells today. 

[sp=My Thoughts]
I kinda expected it but seeing how big Harry is a part of Molly's thoughts was a bit nice to see.  As for the rest of the story, it didn't live up to my expectations but that's fine.  It was decent enough entertainment.  I liked the bit of trivia about Freyja having to fuck all the Svartalves to get her necklace back.  Thomas having to do something similar to get his freedom was a bit amusing as well.  

I also liked how Molly admitted, shortly after she became his apprentice that she and Harry wouldn't work together at that point but that she could be patient.  Hopefully her patience will pay off. 
[/sp]


----------



## dream (Dec 19, 2013)

Skin Game will be released on May 27th.


----------



## Zhen Chan (Dec 19, 2013)

So far away... Incapable of being excited


----------



## dream (Dec 19, 2013)

Just be glad that we don't have to wait years like GoY fans had to wait for the fifth book.


----------



## Seraphiel (Dec 19, 2013)

God damn may 27th? Does he intend to release Aeronauts Windlass like 1 month after or something.


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 20, 2013)

Heh, I guess Amazon wasn't too far off with July. 

The first Cinder Spires book will probably be around November, Seraphiel. That was how it was during the Alera years, right? A Dresden book around April, then the Alera book around December.


----------



## Seraphiel (Dec 20, 2013)

Bergelmir said:


> Heh, I guess Amazon wasn't too far off with July.
> 
> The first Cinder Spires book will probably be around November, Seraphiel. That was how it was during the Alera years, right? A Dresden book around April, then the Alera book around December.



Probably since he stopped writing it to finish SG. I never read Alera for some reason.


----------



## Random Stranger (Dec 20, 2013)

Seraphiel said:


> Probably since he stopped writing it to finish SG. *I never read Alera for some reason.*


I tried reading it because I thought it is a book by Jim Butcher, so it is bound to be good. I was wrong. It was too young adult novel-/shounenish for me to really get into.



Mega Fail said:


> Skin Game will be released on May 27th.


Fuuuu!



That is much later than what I had expected. Oh well.

Anyway here is hoping that this book will introduce the return* of Lash, preferably a Lash that somehow managed to obtain mortal flesh. What? A man can dream  .

Seriously, she was the best Dresden girl by far. Why? One, she is not Murphy, which is HUGE plus. Two, she was competent and useful without being an obnoxious waifu badass (i.e. Murphy). Three, she had a very appealing personality… wise but not overly intelligent…not too overly emotional (sorry Molly)…seductive and mysterious but at times sweetly shy and innocent too… kind and caring (at least to Harry) without being weak…Strong-willed but still feminine (rare these days in fiction).

My top 5 Dresden girls:

1. Lash
2. The library girl that Lash pretended to be
3. Lea
4. Molly
5. Sarissa



*I remember reading somewhere that Jim said Lash would return if I am not mistaking, maybe someone here know more about this?


----------



## dream (Dec 20, 2013)

Random Stranger said:
			
		

> Anyway here is hoping that this book will introduce the return* of Lash, preferably a Lash that somehow managed to obtain mortal flesh. What? A man can dream



Eh...I don't believe that Lash will have a physical body when she comes back but it is possible that she will gain one a few books down the line. 



> Seriously, she was the best Dresden girl by far.



I definitely agree with you on that front. 



> not too overly emotional (sorry Molly)







> *I remember reading somewhere that Jim said Lash would return if I am not mistaking, maybe someone here know more about this?



I'm aware of this quote from Butcher:



> *Audience member:* Is Lash coming back?
> 
> *Jim: *Specifically, is Lash coming back? Lash actually appeared in Ghost Story, although not under that name. (lots of groans at the response, then he uses a sing-song voice, waving his hand) I’m not gonna tell you…. (gleefully “evil” at more groans of dismay) Yes, yes…awww, man, that is like heroin for writers. (points to the next questioner)


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 24, 2013)

> Skin Game, on May 27th



Hoooolly shit someone should get fired


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 24, 2013)

other than it being six months late despite circumstances?


----------



## dream (Dec 24, 2013)

I'm just glad that we don't have to wait years for the book like GoT fans had to wait.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 27, 2013)

Mega Fail said:


> I'm just glad that we don't have to wait years for the book like GoT fans had to wait.



I don't mind that an author takes as long as he wants with a book

It's delays that make me fly off my handle


----------



## dream (Dec 27, 2013)

But the book hasn't been delayed.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2013)

yes it has

It was scheduled to be released this winter

Which in turn cold days itself was delayed, which even merited the remark "oh, now it will be released when the cold season arrives, which fits the mood of the book so much better"


----------



## dream (Dec 28, 2013)

There was never any mention of an official release date for Skin Game as far as I'm aware of. 

I know that Amazon had December 3rd as the release for the book at one point but Jim specially stated that he had no idea where Amazon got its information and that there is no official release date.  Priscellie later mentioned January 16th as a reasonable release date but did say that Butcher had yet to finish the book so a solid release date couldn't be given.  Butcher finished the book earlier this month, no one should be fired over it.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 29, 2013)

Many websites gave us dates from november to january.

And like  I mentioned, I have no problems with the author taking the required time to make a good book, but I was told it was going to be x and now Y has pulled the rg under my feet, and there's always a negative backlash when you disappoint the hype

That makes me cranky. If that's not a fireable offense, I don't know what is


----------



## dream (Dec 29, 2013)

It's your own fault.  Unless Butcher gives us a release date you shouldn't pay attention to any dates that various sites post.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 29, 2013)

Don't tell Banhammer, or he'll have my job


Still it's an indecent amount of time between breaks. I know were getting an entire new steampunk series out of the deal, but when a franchise occupies this much brainspace, I sure wish we'd be getting more stimulation out of it


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 29, 2013)

It's like Butcher is Los Pollos Hermanos and Dresden Files is blue meth

You can't afford to stop production for very long, or you'll ruin your own market
Just hire someone to do filler in the meanwhile


----------



## Galo de Lion (Jan 18, 2014)

Just bought Storm Front

Fun times should await


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 19, 2014)

eeeh.


Fun  times await in the third book

It's still decent tho


----------



## dream (Jan 19, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> It's like Butcher is Los Pollos Hermanos and Dresden Files is blue meth
> 
> You can't afford to stop production for very long, or you'll ruin your own market
> Just hire someone to do filler in the meanwhile



Can't disagree with this.  I wish that Butcher could go back to doing two books a year like he was with Codex Alera and Dresden Files.



TTGL said:


> Just bought Storm Front
> 
> Fun times should await



Like Ban said, fun times await in book three.  Make it to there and things will start to get exciting.  The fourth book is where the series really takes off.


----------



## jkingler (Jan 20, 2014)

^Agreed. Ironically, got my gf through the first two, and she quit (temporarily, I hope) in the middle of book three.

And since there are certain aspects that may resonate with fans of Dresden in general, but especially Harry's awesome zombie adventure and his friend Donar:


----------



## dream (Jan 20, 2014)

jkingler said:
			
		

> ^Agreed. Ironically, got my gf through the first two, and she quit (temporarily, I hope) in the middle of book three.



I had my sister start with the fourth book, she liked rather liked what little she read but then quit in order to devote more time to watching Korean dramas.  She hasn't picked it back up yet. 

Kung Fury is a pretty awesome name.


----------



## Zorp (Jan 21, 2014)

I bought my co-worker Storm Front for Christmas and she read half of it over the weekend, but then stopped.  *sigh*

I'm just waiting for Skin Games to appear on the library catalog so I can be one of the first to reserve it.  I ain't buying the books until all the paperbacks are out in a bulk set.


----------



## dream (Feb 5, 2014)

The summary for Skin Games on Amazon has an interesting tidbit.



> Harry Dresden, Chicago's only professional wizard, is about to have a very bad day. As Winter Knight to the Queen of Air and Darkness, Harry never knows what the scheming Mab might want him to do. Usually, it's something awful.
> 
> This time, it's worse than that. Mab's involved Harry in a smash-and-grab heist run by one of his most despised enemies, to recover the literal Holy Grail from the vaults of the greatest treasure horde in the world - which belongs to the one and only Hades, Lord of the Underworld.
> 
> Dresden's always been tricky, but he's going to have to up his backstabbing game to survive this mess - assuming his own allies don't end up killing him before his enemies get the chance . . .





So, they're going after the Holy Grail.  Should be interesting.


----------



## Zorp (Feb 5, 2014)

Oh man, I wonder if going after the Holy Grail will cause tension between Harry and Michael.


*Spoiler*: __ 



...as if letting his daughter become the new Winter Lady wasn't bad enough.




It will be interesting to see how they plan to use the Grail.  

Have we seen or heard of Hades before in this series?  Is this the first Greek god to be introduced?


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 5, 2014)

so many indiana jones jokes


----------



## Lucaniel (Feb 5, 2014)

SKIN GAME WHEN?


----------



## Detective (Feb 5, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> so many indiana jones jokes



Thank God I wasn't the only one to realize that.

Also fuck Preet, posting a synopsis that has been available for a while.


----------



## Zorp (Feb 5, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> SKIN GAME WHEN?



Scheduled for May 27(?) 2014


----------



## Kikyo (Feb 23, 2014)

FYI Butcher is at GenCon this year.


----------



## Random Stranger (Mar 31, 2014)

One of the things that annoy me about Murphy beside her personality is her over the top bullshido. Now, Butcher is not the only one guilty of this, most authors seem to know nothing about martial arts and/or fighting and base their action/fighting scenes on bad Hollywood fight choreography. But Jimbo claims to be a martial arts enthusiast (/practioner?) so I expect better from him. And normally he delivers better (i.e. Harry?s cqb fights) but whenever Murphy is involved he ups the bullshit by several notches. 

This video explains some of the gripes I have with Murphy?s bullshido more eloquently:


----------



## Zorp (Mar 31, 2014)

I really enjoyed the short, stories, too.  Each one was much more engaging than I thought it would be.  The one that focused on the Oblivion War (told through Thomas's eyes) is wonderfully entertaining and got a good laugh out of me near the end.


----------



## Bergelmir (Mar 31, 2014)

Random Stranger said:


> In more positive new, here are pics from the new Dresden Files comic (coming out june 4th). Now I don’t read the comics but I thought the pictures looked pretty cool.
> 
> I am guessing it shows Carlos Ramirez (they captured his cocky smiles perfectly, though I always imagined him without the facial hair), Yoshimo and no idea who the third warden with the bowie-shaped knife is.
> 
> ...


The two white haired Wardens in the teaser... thats totally Morgan and Luccio, right? 

Do you know when this comic is supposed to take place?


----------



## Cromer (Mar 31, 2014)

Bergelmir said:


> The two white haired Wardens in the teaser... thats totally Morgan and Luccio, right?
> 
> Do you know when this comic is supposed to take place?



If bowie-knife is Kowalski, then before Dead Beat. If it's someone else (like someone out of the brute squad at Archangel) then it's probably pre Changes.


----------



## Random Stranger (Mar 31, 2014)

Bergelmir said:


> The two white haired Wardens in the teaser... thats totally Morgan and Luccio, right?
> 
> Do you know when this comic is supposed to take place?


NFL.com

4 months after Dead Beat (that’s the book where Harry dons the warden-cloak for the first time and rides a zombie T-Rex in case you forget)





Cromer said:


> If bowie-knife is Kowalski, then before Dead Beat. If it's someone else (like someone out of the brute squad at Archangel) then it's probably pre Changes.


Those first few pages/pics most likely depict the huge casualties battle Luccio and co referred to when they met up with Harry in Dead Beat.


----------



## Bergelmir (Mar 31, 2014)

Oh you... I could never forget the events of Dead Beat. Thats still my favourite book of the series.

So, post Dead Beat, eh? We might get some Lash as well! Oh man, I can't wait for this.


----------



## Random Stranger (Apr 2, 2014)

You know what also annoys me about books?  The heroes or even villains never wear helmets or protective head-gear…why? I get that in movies/comics/etc the characters have to be easily recognizable but in books that’s not really a problem. And helmets/protective headgear is one of the most if not the most important protective equipment you gonna need when in a hostile situation where things go flying and people are trying to kill you.


----------



## Zorp (Apr 2, 2014)

^ Funny thing about the hat.  It "has become something of an in-joke between the author and illustrator, with the hat on the cover becoming more prominent and detailed with each book, while inside the pages of said book Harry finds new and interesting ways to stress that he hates hats and would never wear one."

Yet, Dresden did mention off-hand in "Heorot" that he would have to get a hat one of these days...


----------



## dream (Apr 14, 2014)

Butcher supposedly revealed this at Supanova:



> *Spoiler*: _Skin Games Spoiler_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't know Overtime could end in a tie


----------



## Cromer (Apr 14, 2014)

Dream said:


> Butcher supposedly revealed this at Supanova:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know Overtime could end in a tie



Shit, time to direct myself to the JB forums again, I'm sure the merry bunch over there have already spun 261 threads out of that


----------



## dream (Apr 14, 2014)

I'm envious of all the people that already read the book.  I believe that someone purchased a copy of it for well over $1,000.


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 14, 2014)

I've never listened to audiobooks, but I might give this a go just to see how much emotion Masters displays in that scene.


----------



## Banhammer (Apr 14, 2014)

I absolutely love the audiobooks, but they really are a gamechanger though

The books feel more mature, but they loose a bit of hammy edge and imagery they get in my mind when it's read


----------



## Random Stranger (Apr 15, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Maggie and Harry reunion. Nice, this new spoiler goes a long way in removing the bad aftertaste the previous spoiler about Murphy being Harry's back up inflicted. Though it would have been (funnier and) more awkward if they had been reunited before Maggie had years of time to learn the English language. Then they would have had to rely on more than on just language to convey their feelings. It could have potentially been more beautiful and raw.


----------



## Detective (Apr 16, 2014)

As is the tradition in this thread, I shall be sending everyone a digital copy of the latest scientific journal article on the origins of the anxiety driven ceiling mongoose, when it is released next month, coincidentally around the same time as the latest Dresden novel of course.

Of course.


----------



## Banhammer (Apr 16, 2014)

As it is natural of a fellow schollar


----------



## Cromer (Apr 16, 2014)

As expected of the Superior Detective


----------



## Seraphiel (Apr 16, 2014)

Bergelmir said:


> I've never listened to audiobooks, but I might give this a go just to see how much emotion Masters displays in that scene.



The Harry/Mavra exchange at the end of DB is glorious in audiobook format, Marsters does an epic snarl.

Also just preordered



Gimme dat sweet sweet signed hardcover.


----------



## Seraphiel (Apr 22, 2014)

For those who didn't listen to the Miscon reading, the first sample chap is out

8 professional wrasslers with a music career


----------



## Banhammer (Apr 23, 2014)

I did listen to Miscon, but somehow I think the text is a little diffrent

The content is invariably the same though


----------



## Seraphiel (Apr 23, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> I did listen to Miscon, but somehow I think the text is a little diffrent
> 
> The content is invariably the same though



Yep some things are not in the same order and so on


----------



## Bluebeard (May 1, 2014)

26 more days.


----------



## dream (May 1, 2014)

I need someone that has read the book to provide spoilers.


----------



## Banhammer (May 1, 2014)

There are four chapters that are a bit edited since the read.

The spoilers are thus 


*Spoiler*: __ 




Harry has been living in Demon Reach for the past year, learning parkour and getting acquainted with some of the inmates
The Guardian of Demon Reach is now called Alfred
Molly hasn't been to see harry for the past, nor have any of his friends because Mab has been giving harry the ol' chamber of secrets treatment, and thus the parasite has only grown more powerful. Harry can't step out of the island without getting incapacitated with pain and will die in 3 days
Mab is thus manipulating circumstances in order to force harry to comply with her orders
She has commanded him to aid  sincerely nicodemus with the help of an ally at his choice to do a heist
Harry also has the instruction to fuck Nicodemus over and sabotage him at the very first chance, knowing that Nico will try to do it first


----------



## Cromer (May 1, 2014)

Dream said:


> I need someone that has read the book to provide spoilers.



The guy that won the ARC isn't on NF, evidently.


----------



## dream (May 3, 2014)

Pat Rothfuss said:
			
		

> Dammit Jim, your new book is making me cry all over the place.



Second person to cry reading the book.


----------



## Banhammer (May 8, 2014)

I say, Mab don't you think an ear ring is kind of a precarious accessory to stake one's life on? I mean, all you have to do is yank it out


----------



## Cromer (May 8, 2014)

All these people mentioning accumulating feels...I thought this was Ocean's Eleven in the DV?


----------



## Banhammer (May 8, 2014)

yeah, but look at who's crying.. People like rothfuss. There's only one thing this can mean


*Spoiler*: __ 



 We're getting a Harry X Maggie reunion and it's going to kick EVERYONE in the feels


----------



## Zhen Chan (May 8, 2014)

The closer we get to the release date the longer the days feel

We are approaching the event horizon gentlemen


----------



## Seraphiel (May 10, 2014)

Confirmed canon, seems like Nick 
*Spoiler*: __ 



beats the shit out of Murphy




[YOUTUBE]x8ZUvrIQWuY[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Zhen Chan (May 10, 2014)

Oh god that Mab accent was terribad 
And harry sounds like jim

Also John sounds like a MAN. As is proper.


----------



## Cromer (May 10, 2014)

Holy shit fucking hell's bells, that sexy sexy trailer!  Who's up for speculation? 
*Spoiler*: __ 



I do think that this confirms Anna Valmont is on the team. Possibly Binder is the summoner?


----------



## Seraphiel (May 10, 2014)

Cromer said:


> Holy shit fucking hell's bells, that sexy sexy trailer!  Who's up for speculation?
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Anna was confirmed ages ago :3 Also it seems Jim decided not to include a Skinwalker  He said he would. Unless the imposter guy is one.





@Zhen Chan
I watched it muted tbh, as a cringe precaution.

Also they got Michael really good.

Can't wait for Dream to see

*Spoiler*: __ 



Harry and Murph getting it on


----------



## Cromer (May 10, 2014)

Oh. Oh you shippers are gonna hate/love this book (delete as appropriate)


----------



## dream (May 10, 2014)

That video...


----------



## dream (May 10, 2014)

Seraphiel said:


> Can't wait for Dream to see
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Fuck this shit.  Fuck you, Butcher.


----------



## Seraphiel (May 10, 2014)

Cromer said:


> Oh. Oh you shippers are gonna hate/love this book (delete as appropriate)



I hate the romance parts, the sooner that is done with and decided the happier I will be.

2 chicks on JB online are INSANE and I do mean INSANE with Murphy hate cuz of it.


----------



## dream (May 10, 2014)

Butcher should have used the Codex Alera style of romance in Dresden Files.  Pair someone with Harry early on or at least make it blatantly inevitable and then be done with it.  This will they or won't they stuff was pretty damn annoying.


----------



## Seraphiel (May 10, 2014)

Well unless that was a mantle hallucination he will be balls deep in 


*Spoiler*: __ 



murph it seems.




I'm sorry dream I shouldn't keep doing this to you, especially since idc about shipping.


----------



## Cromer (May 10, 2014)

Seraphiel said:


> I hate the romance parts, the sooner that is done with and decided the happier I will be.
> 
> 2 chicks on JB online are INSANE and I do mean INSANE with Murphy hate cuz of it.



I'm gonna stick a guess and say one of them has a usernick starting with M, am I right? I'll say this for that forum, they've got the most polite flame wars ever.


----------



## dream (May 10, 2014)

Seraphiel said:


> I'm sorry dream I shouldn't keep doing this to you, especially since idc about shipping.



No need to be sorry, I knew that Butcher was likely going to take the romance in a direction that I wouldn't like despite how much I hoped otherwise but oh well. 

And honestly, I just want him to get the romance out of the way.  If Harry is to be with Murphy then so be it, just don't drag it out so long.


----------



## Random Stranger (May 10, 2014)

Seraphiel said:


> 2 chicks on JB online are INSANE and I do mean INSANE with Murphy hate cuz of it.


link please? I gotta see this.



*Spoiler*: __ 



Also, here’s to hoping that the reason everybody cried reading the book is due to Murphy’s wounds (un)fortunately proving to be fatal or otherwise so severe that she ends up a vegetable. I am sure there’s a nice little spot next to Marcone’s little girl available, she wont be lonely. Hell, Marcone and Harry could even decide to carpool their visits and end up bonding in the meantime. It's been a long time (10 books ) since Harry and Marcone had a genuine 1-on-1 moment.

More seriously though, I am not sure why Harry thought it a good idea to bring a vanilla mortal on a dangerous supernatural operation. I mean Thomas or Kincaid would have been the far more intelligent decision. Unless there’s a logical reason to why he choose Murphy over those two (like Thomas isn't available or Murphy brings the Japanese sword of the Cross with her), I am gonna be forever doubting (and celebrating) his intelligence (celebrating because it resulted in Murphy’s demise (hopefully)).


----------



## Seraphiel (May 10, 2014)

Random Stranger said:


> link please? I gotta see this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 




The reason is that he doesn't need brute force but needs someone who can think clearly and point out things for him.




I'll find you more threads later but this one devolves into it I think  

The Mira poster.


----------



## Cromer (May 10, 2014)

Seraphiel said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's like I'm a prophet (or I was part of the scrum there for a while ). I understand people not liking Murphy, she comes off a bit holier than thou to a certain eye, but misattributions and plain old fashioned ignoring the text just pisses me right the fuck off.


----------



## Banhammer (May 11, 2014)

re-reading cold days in preparation

Boy, sometime between skin games and whatever comes next, I'm going to have to re-read the whole series


----------



## Detective (May 11, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> re-reading cold days in preparation
> 
> Boy, sometime between skin games and whatever comes next, I'm going to have to re-read the whole series



Challenge accepted.


----------



## Cromer (May 11, 2014)

I finished my series re-read on Friday  Though I always skip the first three books, dunno why.


----------



## dream (May 11, 2014)

That's probably because the first three books are the weakest books in the series.


----------



## Banhammer (May 11, 2014)

yeah, but they also some of my favorite scenes, like the Loup Garou, the Sunshine Hankie and if I'm not mistaken, Ferrovax


----------



## Detective (May 11, 2014)

Polka will never die!


----------



## dream (May 11, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> yeah, but they also some of my favorite scenes, like the Loup Garou, the Sunshine Hankie and if I'm not mistaken, Ferrovax



Ferrovax was in the third book and his scene was pretty cool.


----------



## Detective (May 11, 2014)

Kid Miracleman said:


> Ferrovax was in the third book and his scene was pretty cool.



I bet you named your asshole Ferrovax, for all the hot air it spews, you shit.


----------



## Detective (May 11, 2014)

Kid Miracleman said:


> .........



In other news, how long is Warudo's ban?


----------



## dream (May 11, 2014)

Indefinite for now, I want to discuss his situation with the rest of the staff before coming to a proper duration.


----------



## Banhammer (May 11, 2014)

Fear the might of Ferrovax, fire blower, layer of waste.

Should you know my true form, your mind would shatter and the earth beneath me crack

Though not just the earth


----------



## Seraphiel (May 12, 2014)

Book 3 was a definite step up from 2 and 3 so I don't mind re-reading it. Especially the later part of the party when everything goes to shit.

@Ban


*Spoiler*: __ 



I sure hope Ferro is not the dragon that is scheduled to die in an upcoming book.


----------



## Zhen Chan (May 13, 2014)

Ferro is confirmed to be in the final three books


----------



## Seraphiel (May 13, 2014)

Zhen Chan said:


> Ferro is confirmed to be in the final three books



Idk about Ferro but the dragon book will be something like 18-20, one of those.


----------



## Cromer (May 13, 2014)

Does anyone know if the backing track for the SG trailer is an original or a pre-existing track, and if so where can I get it?


----------



## Banhammer (May 13, 2014)

no idea, but there's a lot of discussion going around, someone is bound to know

Chapter 4 came out today, so soon we'll get 5, and with it, new uncharted territory
Huzzah


----------



## Cromer (May 13, 2014)

There's been enough re-arranging and re-writing compared with the Miscon reading that we're already in uncharted territory. You gonna show up for the AMA, Ban?


----------



## Banhammer (May 14, 2014)

probably not. It's a bit of a hell week right now


----------



## Galo de Lion (May 14, 2014)

Reading the first book at the moment. I'm really liking it! Someone told me the series really picks up at the 4th book or so.


----------



## Detective (May 14, 2014)

TTGL said:


> Reading the first book at the moment. I'm really liking it! Someone told me the series really picks up at the 4th book or so.



Book 3 is the real turning point. It's an all out roller coaster ride from there.


----------



## Seraphiel (May 14, 2014)

TTGL said:


> Reading the first book at the moment. I'm really liking it! Someone told me the series really picks up at the 4th book or so.



Enjoy. Books 1-2 are pretty lacking in terms of quality writing due to him writing it in collage. But the fun factor is there. It picks up during/after 3 and by 7 it's amazing.


----------



## Seraphiel (May 16, 2014)

Interview from yesterday

[YOUTUBE]gM-Phtpvm8s[/YOUTUBE]


edit: 5-6 more books + 3 books for BAT. Pretty good news.


edit2: from the AMA



> Book 16 will be titled PEACE TALKS, and will probably be one of the more supernaturally violent books to date.


----------



## dream (May 16, 2014)

Some fun stuff from an AMA:



> *Can we get a break down of the biological relationships between the various Fae Queens we have seen on screen?
> Of particular interest - Maeve and Sarissa, were they actually Mab's kids (biological sense)?  If so, who was Mab's baby daddy?*
> 
> Mab and Titania are actual twin sisters.
> ...



NFL.com


----------



## dream (May 16, 2014)

Continued:



> *1) What ever happened to Siriothrax's hoard?  Did any of the magical powerups in the series we've seen so far originate there?
> 2) Given that it takes a turkey 30-50 seconds to fall from an  airplane, it is very hard to hit a moving target just at the right time.   Do Entropy Curses reach back in time to achive the desired outcome, or  was the turkey being guided by the curse on the way down?
> 3) We were told in Dead Beat that Kemmler was finally killed in 1961.   Looking online, I found that the Tsar Bomb (largest man-made explosion  ever) was detonated on Halloween eve, 1961.  Is this a coincidence, a  coverup by the various authorities of the showdown that took place, or  the direct result of Kemmler's Death Curse?
> 4) How high up do magic circles go?  Are they spheres or cylinder shaped?  Was Gene Roddenberry on to something?
> ...


----------



## Kikyo (May 16, 2014)

Thanks for posting the interview


----------



## Banhammer (May 16, 2014)

I like knowing what Acient Mai's specialty is


----------



## Cromer (May 17, 2014)

Pisses me off that I had to go under anesthesia just around the time of the AMA.


----------



## Detective (May 17, 2014)

Makes me glad that you're still alive to be pissed off and make a post about it though, my friend.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 17, 2014)

Man, just ten more days 'till the book drops!

I've been so good with spoilers this year. Only read one of the teaser chapters, and haven't pushed further. I think I might make it this time.


----------



## Banhammer (May 17, 2014)

i've watched the book  trailer, some pretty huge spoilers  there


----------



## Kikyo (May 17, 2014)

Several of the early books are on sale on Amazon for $1.99 for the kindle editions if anyone needs them.


----------



## Detective (May 17, 2014)

I hope everyone is excited for the article on the origins of the semi-transparent, semi-solid mongoose that I shall be forwarding your way in a little over a week, or possibly less, if I can procure it.

Get your PM boxes ready, dear lady(Kikyo) and magnificent bastards(the rest of you).


----------



## Banhammer (May 17, 2014)

Kikyo said:


> Several of the early books are on sale on Amazon for $1.99 for the kindle editions if anyone needs them.



But only for 'Murica



Detective said:


> I hope everyone is excited for the article on the origins of the semi-transparent, semi-solid mongoose that I shall be forwarding your way in a little over a week, or possibly less, if I can procure it.
> 
> Get your PM boxes ready, dear lady(Kikyo) and magnificent bastards(the rest of you).



Speaking of supernaturally enduing detectives, how are you, and why is it that you're excited for the Constantine tv series?


----------



## Detective (May 17, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> Speaking of supernaturally enduing detectives, how are you, and why is it that you're excited for the Constantine tv series?



I'm trying to get by with the pain, BH, but sometimes it gets to be a bit much, so I try to rest whenever possible. I've got an appointment setup with the neurological specialist soon, so hopefully I can get a good set of options provided to me.

Regarding Constantine, it's been a really long while since TV had a supernatural based TV show, other than NBC's other show, Grimm. Also, I have a weakness for mystical detectives. Also my wounds from having the short lived, yet badly produced Dresden show, have yet to heal.

I have hope.

The casting choice for Constantine seems on point. 

:33


----------



## Lucaniel (May 17, 2014)

i don't like that guy

he might look like the comic book constantine, but his face is inexpressive and mannequin-esque



> it's been a really long while since TV had a supernatural based TV show, other than NBC's other show, Grimm



there's a long-running supernatural-based tv show on air, detective. it's called...supernatural 

plus once upon a time, vampire diaries, etc.


----------



## Seraphiel (May 17, 2014)

To be fair I am rereading Hellblazer and from the trailer it looks like they actually got it right. 

Pretty sure it's gonna be good. (and by that I mean I hope it will)


----------



## Lucaniel (May 17, 2014)

can't say the trailer seemed like the show would be able to reproduce hellblazer's atmosphere any tbh


----------



## Detective (May 17, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> there's a long-running supernatural-based tv show on air, detective. it's called...supernatural



Supernatural a shit.


----------



## Zorp (May 17, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> I like knowing what Acient Mai's specialty is



Me, too.  I want to see some of her prized toys.



Bergelmir said:


> Man, just ten more days 'till the book drops!
> 
> I've been so good with spoilers this year. Only read one of the teaser chapters, and haven't pushed further. I think I might make it this time.



I haven't read any spoilers yet.  Plus, I got in early on the library reserve list, so hopefully I'll be reading within the first week or two after it comes out.


----------



## Cromer (May 18, 2014)

Funny thing. Incompetent doctors damn near killed me Friday night, and amongst all the various shit I was regretting while I couldn't breath, not getting to finish the Dresden Files was pretty high up. Nice life I'm living . Need that Skin Games real soon, hospitals are hella boring.


----------



## Banhammer (May 18, 2014)

Make A Wish foundation, get your ass in gear


----------



## Seraphiel (May 18, 2014)

Pat Rothfuss' review, lmao the guy is insane with DF love.


----------



## Banhammer (May 18, 2014)

yeah that was creepy


----------



## Zhen Chan (May 19, 2014)

Just finished skin game this morning

The fucking feels man


----------



## dream (May 19, 2014)

Zhen Chan said:


> Just finished skin game this morning
> 
> The fucking feels man





How did you get the book?

Also, could you PM me spoilers?


----------



## Detective (May 19, 2014)

Dream said:


> How did you get the book?
> 
> Also, could you PM me spoilers?



Most likely obtained an ARC copy of the novel.

Also, SMH at you asking for spoilers before reading the book for yourself.

Shameless.


----------



## dream (May 19, 2014)

Zhen sure is lucky. 

Spoilers are wonderful.


----------



## dream (May 19, 2014)

Indeed. 

I don't want to watch/read something for hours only for there to be an ending that would make me rage.


----------



## Detective (May 19, 2014)

But that's part of the fun of life, though.

Legit rage is a rare gift indeed. 

:33


----------



## Zhen Chan (May 19, 2014)

Dream said:


> Indeed.
> 
> I don't want to watch/read something for hours only for there to be an ending that would make me rage.



I'm doing you a favor, you want to enjoy the ride 


Although there was this one point that...madmadmad


----------



## Detective (May 19, 2014)

For Dream, the use of the  emote in a Dresden thread means that Harry went balls deep into Murphy.


----------



## Zhen Chan (May 19, 2014)

The one thing I will spoil is the parasite. Open the spoiler of you have FOOKING STONES M8


*Spoiler*: __ 



The parasite is Harry & Lash's baby. I fucking shit you not


----------



## Banhammer (May 19, 2014)

New Chapter day


----------



## dream (May 19, 2014)

Detective said:


> But that's part of the fun of life, though.
> 
> Legit rage is a rare gift indeed.
> 
> :33



I don't like legit rage. 



Zhen Chan said:


> I'm doing you a favor, you want to enjoy the ride
> 
> 
> Although there was this one point that...madmadmad



I'll still enjoy the ride even with knowing everything about it beforehand.  I was heavily spoiled about Changes and that didn't alter my enjoyment at all nor did it for everything else I am spoiled about.  



Detective said:


> For Dream, the use of the  emote in a Dresden thread means that Harry went balls deep into Murphy.



Honestly, while I would be angry if Harry ended up with Murphy I wouldn't be raging like the fucking movie HER made me rage.  Even months after watching it I'm still mad.   What will really piss me off is if we get a whole another round of them being heavily attracted to each other but not getting together because of REASONS.  It's an annoying on-going plot point that I'm tired of.  Either kill off any chances of it or get them together.

Doesn't change how I prefer Harry x Molly. 



Zhen Chan said:


> The one thing I will spoil is the parasite. Open the spoiler of you have FOOKING STONES M8
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...





Please spoil everything for me. 

Especially the Molly stuff.


----------



## Banhammer (May 20, 2014)

Chap 5 was a bit of a rip off. Took me like 30 seconds to read


----------



## Random Stranger (May 20, 2014)

Short but enjoyable chapter. Usually when reading/watching the more "emotional" scenes in books/movies I skim right through them because they tend to be very cringeworthy be it for their corniness or forced and/or increased dramatisism or what have you. But Butcher does them pretty well. They feel authentic and not forced at all.




Seraphiel said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"Seraphiel, are you perhaps a prophet?"

yhwach_bleach.jpg


----------



## Cromer (May 20, 2014)

I don't have the stones to open the spoiler


----------



## Random Stranger (May 20, 2014)

Pretty sure Zhen Chan is just trolling, bro.

And if he is not, why isn't he passing the ganga to his brethren? Puff puff pass bro!

Also gotta respect Dream's integrity, it's pretty clear he is at least as big a fan as any of us but containing himself despite of the massive amounts of precum dripping off of his hard-on.  In the same position I would have been promising all kinds of sexual favors modfucks in exchange for a few quick hits. All kindzzz. Then again, who knows what these two have been scheming behind our backs in PM's


----------



## Detective (May 20, 2014)

Random Stranger said:


> Then again, who knows what these two have been scheming behind our backs in PM's



I'd rather not imagine it, actually.


----------



## dream (May 20, 2014)

I would never use my admins powers for such things.


----------



## Detective (May 20, 2014)

Dream said:


> I would never use my admins powers for such things.



Says this, but forgets the day he used his powers for evil by changing everyone's username's to weird shit.


----------



## Kikyo (May 20, 2014)

I can't click the spoiler button. I can't


----------



## Banhammer (May 20, 2014)

So do I need to avoid the thread until I finish the book?


----------



## Seraphiel (May 22, 2014)

Random Stranger said:


> Short but enjoyable chapter. Usually when reading/watching the more "emotional" scenes in books/movies I skim right through them because they tend to be very cringeworthy be it for their corniness or forced and/or increased dramatisism or what have you. But Butcher does them pretty well. They feel authentic and not forced at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No it was spoiled by the book blurb and even before that by Jim more than like 5 months ago.


----------



## Random Stranger (May 22, 2014)

Was there any information in those "interviews" (yeah sure lets go with that, you wont fool me mr prophet) about an eventual Marcone and/or Kincaid/Ivy appearance. Because it could be just coincidence but Marcone has had a pretty major involvement in every book that the Denarians have appeared in so far. Kincaid and Ivy have appeared in every Denarians book as well, though in differing levels of involvement than Marcone.


----------



## Seraphiel (May 22, 2014)

Marcone is confirmed to not be in the book. 

Again interview info


*Spoiler*: __ 



But they are knocking over his vault too. Murphy says something like: if we do this we are going to war with Marcone.





People on Jim's site getting the book early, I am p rustled. Some guy got it on the 14th of May.


----------



## Random Stranger (May 22, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Oh, set up for a war with Marcone, huh. Nice, that's even better!




Thanks for the info, Seraphet!


----------



## Zorp (May 22, 2014)

Kikyo said:


> I can't click the spoiler button. I can't




Don't do it, Keeks!  Just five more days!


----------



## dream (May 23, 2014)

Random Stranger said:


> Was there any information in those "interviews" (yeah sure lets go with that, you wont fool me mr prophet) about an eventual Marcone and/or Kincaid/Ivy appearance. Because it could be just coincidence but Marcone has had a pretty major involvement in every book that the Denarians have appeared in so far. Kincaid and Ivy have appeared in every Denarians book as well, though in differing levels of involvement than Marcone.



Fairly sure Butcher stated, in an interview, that Ivy won't be in this book.


----------



## Lucaniel (May 23, 2014)

aw

i like ivy


----------



## Zorp (May 23, 2014)

No Ivy? 

I don't remember what was happening with her last we saw her.  I bet she was crushed after the end of Changes, realizing that her only friend was gone.  She would be hgih-school age by this point, right?


----------



## Bergelmir (May 25, 2014)

Hhhhhrrrrr. So close. My friend spoiled me on two things... but I don't know if he's screwing with me. 

The next three days are going to be torture.


----------



## dream (May 25, 2014)

Bergelmir said:


> Hhhhhrrrrr. So close. My friend spoiled me on two things... but I don't know if he's screwing with me.
> 
> The next three days are going to be torture.



I was given some general spoilers so I might be able to confirm things with you...assuming that you want to know.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 25, 2014)

...I do. Odin help me, but I do. I was told that


*Spoiler*: __ 



a) one of the Swords of the Cross gets shattered, and b) Harry's brain parasite is his and Lash's psychic baby.


----------



## Cromer (May 25, 2014)

I'm already avoiding jimbutcheronline.com; don't make me avoid this place too


----------



## Seraphiel (May 25, 2014)

Cromer said:


> I'm already avoiding jimbutcheronline.com; don't make me avoid this place too



They insta delete spoilers there you won't see any.

Also I just saw this, so jelly, you can click not a book spoiler


----------



## dream (May 25, 2014)

Bergelmir said:


> ...I do. Odin help me, but I do. I was told that
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 




I've been told similar things.


----------



## Zorp (May 25, 2014)

Seraphiel said:


> They insta delete spoilers there you won't see any.
> 
> Also I just saw this, so jelly, you can click not a book spoiler



Not only does he have the book, but he has a bowl of ice cream and brownies, too.

Mad jelly right now.


----------



## Seraphiel (May 25, 2014)

Zorp said:


> Not only does he have the book, but he has a bowl of ice cream and brownies, too.
> 
> Mad jelly right now.



It's some woman that works at a bookstore, she said she dragged her 9 months pregnant ass to work to get it early.


----------



## Cromer (May 25, 2014)

Damn, that's dedication.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 25, 2014)

Seraphiel said:


> It's some woman that works at a bookstore, she said she dragged her 9 months pregnant ass to work to get it early.


Holy crap.  Thats amazing. And scary.



Dream said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __


----------



## jkingler (May 25, 2014)

So it's out? 

/can't wait

These sneak peek chapters have been fun, but not nearly enough to satisfy...


----------



## Detective (May 25, 2014)

Keep your inboxes clear, people. 

Soon.


----------



## Seraphiel (May 26, 2014)

Detective are you per chance talking about keeping our inbox clear for a link to a .mobi/epub file with info about the endeavors of one Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden?


----------



## Detective (May 26, 2014)

Seraphiel said:


> Detective are you per chance talking about keeping our inbox clear for a link to a .mobi/epub file with info about the endeavors of one Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden?



Of course not. I just have a rather nice tradition of sending totally random, unrelated articles on the origins of the flying kung fu tiger style mongoose to everyone in this thread, coincidentally around the same time that the latest Dresden novel is released. Pure coincidence of course.


... of course.


----------



## Seraphiel (May 26, 2014)

Oh that is even better I've always been interesting in reading something like that, might as well do it before Skin Game


----------



## Detective (May 26, 2014)

The book has been released on Amazon.jp in English format.

Detective is on the case.


----------



## Seraphiel (May 26, 2014)

Oh shit. My kindle is US even though I am euro so last time it unlocked at like 10am on release day here.


----------



## Banhammer (May 26, 2014)

those biddy japs


----------



## dream (May 26, 2014)

Well, it already is the 27th there.


----------



## Detective (May 26, 2014)

So Preet has purchased the Kindle version and forward a copy of the epub to me:

*snip*


----------



## Seraphiel (May 26, 2014)

Got it in time, thanks guys <3 Now to turn of skype get icecream and read.


----------



## Detective (May 26, 2014)

It is done.


----------



## Lucaniel (May 26, 2014)

*Spoiler*: _spoiler for hotel fight_ 






> Hell’s bells.
> I mean, don’t get me wrong. I’m a Wizard of the White Council. But what I’d just witnessed was a display of precision and power so awesome that I would barely have believed it from a senior Council member, much less a freaking warlock younger than me. Fire’s a tricky, tricky magic to use. Call up enough power to do damage, and you have to fight to control it. The hotter you make it, the more it spreads out, consumes, destroys. This fire spell had been positively surgical.
> I mean, I’m good with fire.



isn't he overrating her a bit

he's seen what ebenezar can do. plus the wardens back in turn coat + ivy vs. the denarians in small favour


----------



## Banhammer (May 26, 2014)

I always did want to do more research into the flying mongoose


----------



## Lucaniel (May 26, 2014)

*Spoiler*: _chapter 13 spoilers_ 



butters sure is giving harry a hard time, huh?

but then again, at this point, i'm used to people not being appreciative of harry. every time, it's "are you still yourself, harry? can i trust you? sure, you've risked your skin saving me, this city, and the entire world two hundred times, but what have you done for me lately?"

unappreciative, ungrateful assholes. if harry had done for me what he's done for all of them, i'd be asking no questions and helping however i could. and getting him pizza

"i'm not sure i know you anymore" - butters

fuck you, dude!


----------



## Banhammer (May 26, 2014)

too bad there's no audio to it, yet


----------



## Cromer (May 26, 2014)

Time for my research into the kung fu flying mongoose :33


----------



## Zorp (May 26, 2014)

What a generous mongoose.


----------



## Detective (May 26, 2014)

Dat Mongoose delivering those viciously exciting kicks and punches so far into the article.


----------



## Lucaniel (May 26, 2014)

> “Bloody hell,” Binder said. “Why does everyone have to get bloody personal? No bloody professional pride anymore.” He glowered at me. “Present bloody company included.”
> “Language,” Ascher said, wincing.



is she kidding?????????//


----------



## Banhammer (May 26, 2014)

looking at the article, I have to say, I'm rather astonished at how short it is


----------



## Lucaniel (May 26, 2014)

*Spoiler*: _chapter 29 spoilers_ 




i'm kinda satisfied by this

i always thought murphy was way overrated and kinda annoying and a self-righteous shit. now she's destroyed one of the Swords. that's definitely gonna get her off her high horse


----------



## Lucaniel (May 26, 2014)

*Spoiler*: _chapter 30 spoilers_ 



NO FUCK
NO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

edit:

oh whew


----------



## Cromer (May 26, 2014)

I'd appreciate a Mediafire copy of this article; my tablet doesnt play nice with Mega


----------



## Lucaniel (May 26, 2014)

*Spoiler*: _general spoilers_ 



wait

butters made all of this shit happen by being an interfering busybody who couldn't just trust harry

i CANNOT BELIEVE THIS FUCKING GUY

what a TURD


----------



## dream (May 26, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> *Spoiler*: _general spoilers_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



His character really took a bit of a nosedive. 

Also, all that Harry & Murphy garbage is sickening.


----------



## Detective (May 26, 2014)

Cromer said:


> I'd appreciate a Mediafire copy of this article; my tablet doesnt play nice with Mega



Done and done. If anyone else prefers MF articles, let your friendly neighbourhood crime fighter know.


----------



## Lucaniel (May 26, 2014)

*Spoiler*: _chapter 40??++ spoilers i stopped keeping track_ 




HADES IS SUCH A COOL GUY OMG


----------



## Banhammer (May 26, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> *Spoiler*: _chapter 13 spoilers_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In my experience, that how the overwhelming majority of people behave.
People I love dearly too.
I try not to judge him. There's clearly been a lot of events happening in the (three?) years since harry's been gone


----------



## Lucaniel (May 26, 2014)

finished it!


*Spoiler*: __ 



butters becoming a knight was a little stupid, i thought. it just seemed a little contrived for the sake of creating a feel-good transformation story. butters, the 5'5 lab nerd, a knight of the cross? i know shiro was short too, but please. it just didn't seem appropriate, even if he's a brave man. he's not _that_ kind of brave man

the rest of the story was pretty good. it gets a little tiresome in dresden files that everything seems to work out according to the plan of the shadowy, powerful manipulators behind the scenes. this time, of course, it was mab again. everything's worked out for her in like five books now. i'm tired of mab getting her own way and i'm tired of mab full stop. she needs to die. HOWEVER, in this specific instance of a well-crafted, twisty plot which worked out to absolutely eviscerate nicodemus in horrible ways, i'm okay with it

harry and murphy still ain't working. whatever, though, she took a satisfying nosedive this book

goodman grey was coolio, hope we see more of him. hades was also coolio, ditto. binder wasn't half as much of a twat as i remember, good for him. always good to see uriel, and especially in that expanded role

maggie! mouse! wonderful

^______________^ i'm satisfied


----------



## Cromer (May 26, 2014)

*Spoiler*: _Chapter Twenty-ninish_ 



what in the actual fuck? The Sword is done?


----------



## Bergelmir (May 26, 2014)

ITS HERE!  Just gotta speed through work, and then start reading.


----------



## Cromer (May 27, 2014)

*Spoiler*: _Chapter Thirty Five_ 



 Hannah Ascher aka Death Flags the Character


----------



## Zhen Chan (May 27, 2014)

I didnt get the Rent bit


----------



## Banhammer (May 27, 2014)

I think they have to pay someone to rent Ectoplasm 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 Both Grey and Binder make ectoplasm constructs




Read the book. Felt a bit rush character wise, though the caper is a hell of an adventure in of itself, I do wish that the past 3 books weren't all 3-day long adventures, where the wholes in between the years that go by are just casually filled off hand by passing remarks


----------



## Seraphiel (May 27, 2014)

Who remembers this from Ghost Story



> "Butters," Rumbled Skaldi "When are you going to get in this ring and train like a man"
> 
> "About 5 minutes after I get a functional lightsaber" Butters replied easily.



Fucking Jim


----------



## dream (May 27, 2014)

Having had some time to mull over the book I can't help but be tremendously disappointed by it.  The book was good but it could have been so much more in my opinion.


*Spoiler*: __ 




It'll come as no surprise to any regular of this thread that I dislike Murphy.  The dream sex scene was akin to someone pouring acid on my eyes.   Was a bit happy when she got wrecked. 

Then there is Butters...I really liked him in the beginning and especially in Dead Beat but now....he's rather annoying.  And all everything he does in this book he ends up getting the Sword of Faith and has it be a lightsaber?  God damn it Butcher.  While you have previously written stuff that I didn't really like this is the first time that I was actually a bit angry at.  Terrible choice.

I didn't like how little of a role Molly had in this book but I can understand it, Butcher probably wants to reserve all the fun stuff between those two for the next book.  Anyways...the bit about Molly using a cellphone really homes in the fact that she's inhuman now.  It'll be interesting to see more of her.  What I've seen so far has been promising.  She's still a fun character and still does seem to care about Harry.  Also, I liked this bit: 


*Spoiler*: __ 



“If having something real is so important to you, man up and go get her,” my id said. “You could both be dead tomorrow. You’re heading for the realm of freaking death, for crying out loud. What the hell are you waiting for?”
“Uh,” I said.
“Let me answer that for you,” he said. “Molly.”
I blinked. “Uh, no. Molly’s a freaking kid.”
“She was a freaking kid,” my double said. “She’s heading for her late twenties, in case you forgot how to count. She’s not all that much younger than you, and the proportional distance is only shrinking. And you like her, and you trust her, and the two of you have a ton in common. Go get laid there.”
“Dude, no,” I said. “That is not going to happen.”
“Why not?”
“It would be a serious violation of trust.”
“Because she’s your apprentice?” he asked. “No, she isn’t. Not anymore. Hell’s bells, man, she’s practically your boss when you get right down to it. At the very least, she got promoted past you.”
“I am not having this conversation,” I said.
“Repression and denial,” my double said acerbically. “Get thee to a therapist.”




Harry subconsciously knows that the violation of trust excuse he has had against getting with her can't fly anymore.  Sooner or later Harry will accept that.  Also, Michael didn't go apeshit at the thought of Harry and Molly fucking each other.  A bit weird-ed out it seems but not about to take a sword and gut Harry with it.   I was fearing that this book might tank the Harry/Molly ship but thankfully it didn't.  All of Harry's reasons for not getting together with her are slowly but surely disappearing.  Now we just need for interactions between the two for the possibility of Harry seeing Molly in a romantic light.  Only a matter of time because I refuse to believe that Butcher will keep on hammering us with a potential Harry/Molly relationship if something wasn't going to come out of it.  It could be Harry and Molly ending up together or Molly going off the deep end partly because Harry won't see her in a romantic light.  Of the two the former seems more reasonable.  Of course Butcher could have nothing come out of it but that would be a waste of everything he's done regarding a potential relationship between the two so far.    

Also, I really liked the Harry and Maggie talk.  A bit cheesy but it was pretty adorable.  Also, Harry having a baby with Lash was just awesome.    Lash will be missed, she was amazing.   Here's to hoping that their daughter is just as awesome. 

Hades was more awesome than I expected.  I guess he's another ally for the BAT.

Nic...fucking loved him in this book.  Am eagerly waiting to see what he's going to do in his next appearance.  

The Fae Queens being aspects of Hecate was unexpected and I can't see that I approve of it too much.  Don't really like the idea of those six being aspects of a Greek goddess or even anyone else just like I don't like how Odin can become Kringle.  Oh well.  

The actual heist stuff...wasn't really too impressed by it. 

Yeah, I talked mostly about Harry/Molly stuff but I'm a hardcore shipper so that should be expected.


----------



## Detective (May 27, 2014)

Butters is clearly confident as fuck now because he's been banging Andi for a while.


----------



## Lucaniel (May 27, 2014)

oh you know what


*Spoiler*: __ 



harry turning out to be PREGNANT WITH A SPIRIT OF INTELLIGENCE was preeeeeetty fuckin' stupid

it would've made way more sense to just have it be, as expected, something from the Outsiders

smh

he already has a real kid, he doesn't need a psychic one


----------



## Kikyo (May 27, 2014)

OMG CHAPTER 20



and no, I haven't been reading this thread and FMIRL that I can't read faster than this.


----------



## Detective (May 27, 2014)

Kikyo confirmed to finish this book by the year 928398293829839289829823982938, and no sooner.


----------



## dream (May 27, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> oh you know what
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 




Ehh...I didn't really mind this.  Would have preferred it to be something else like some mutant hybrid of Outsider energy and the remnants of Lash but a spirit kid is fine. 

I guess that Butcher wanted to put in another refer to Geek mythology in this book by having Harry have a child growing up in his head like Zeus had.


----------



## Banhammer (May 28, 2014)

No, everyone expected it to be 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 Lash 


. so the identity made sense.

Also, I get why people are angry at Butters, but I'm not, I think it's cool


The thing that is reaaaaaally bullshit is that 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 All that the Winter Mantle does, is open up Dresden's Maito Gai's Gates


----------



## Random Stranger (May 28, 2014)

Marcone turned out to be a major player in this book as well. The trend of him being a major player in every Denerain book continues. 



Lucaniel said:


> finished it!
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



You read books pretty fast judging by your posts 

I agree, the over the top aizen-level behind the scenes manipulating annoyed me too.







Banhammer said:


> The thing that is reaaaaaally bullshit is that
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Yeah, that part got to me too. Well, at least, Harry didn’t complete buy in to the theory. He agreed that some of it may have some validity but that it is not the whole story.

I mean the sudden ease, proficiency and magnitude at which he can use Ice Magic now is difficult to attribute to the just ”dumbo’s magic feather “ or removal of limiters.

Not to mention, the increased toughness

*Spoiler*: _Changes quote_ 





> I tried to dust myself off and get a good look at my injuries. I should have broken ribs. Ruptured organs. I should be bleeding all over the place.
> But as far as I could tell, I didn’t even have whiplash.





Or the enhanced healing that goes above the standard wizard healing factor.

*Spoiler*: _Cold Days quote_ 





> “There are so many cuts here, I don’t think I have enough Band-Aids. We’ll have to wrap it, I guess.”
> “I’ll just put a clean shirt over them,” I said. “Look, it isn’t a big deal. Little marks like that are going to be gone in a day or two.”
> “Little . . . Winter Knight stuff?”
> “Pretty much,” I said. “Mab . . . kinda gave me the tour during my recovery.”






Etc…

So, I hope it’s just an incorrect/incomplete theory on Butter’s part and not some kind of nerf/retcon type of deal by Jim.


----------



## Random Stranger (May 28, 2014)

Also

*Spoiler*: __ 



I gotta say Murphy was less of Murphy this book. She was actually pretty sufferable and bordering on enjoyable but I am still glad she took a back seat for the second half of the book (Murphyhater4life!). Her little talk to Harry at the end of Cold Days about how she’s not returning the Swords to him and that she is the custodian now because of “faith/doesn’t feel right/Knight’s intuition of whatever she claimed it to be” is now confirmed bullshit by Uriel and Michael. Ha!

The whole Batman Butters mildly amused me despite his spying and endangering his friends. He should have known better. Though the whole Sir Butters, Jedi knight of the Cross thing was a little too much as Lucaniel bluntly put it. I also find it funny how both Butters and Murphy, two of his friends who had the least “faith” in him (Murphy, most of the previous books, Butters, this book) ended up being wielders of the Sword of “Faith”. 

I like that the parasite turned out to be Harry and Lash’s child . I hope that she has a personality that strongly resembles that of Lash, I really liked her so the parasite turning out to be her child is the next best thing to Lash coming back. Here’s to hoping that since the spirit of intellect is Harry’s spawn she will have a less frivolous “loyalty” than Bob’s.

Binder and Anna seemed a lot more enjoyable than they were the last time we saw them too. And Goodman Grey was pretty cool beans. Cool powers, cool personality. 


*Spoiler*: __ 





> Grey blinked at that, and then turned a wide smile on me. “Seriously? You want to whip them out already? You’ve been here for about two minutes.”





> Grey lifted an eyebrow. “Damn, threats from both of you?” He turned his gaze on Valmont. “How about you, sister? Want to jump on this train?”







He also hit the nail on the head with these two quotes lol. Both Harry and Murphy are a little too big in the whole posturing and are big do-you-even-flex-bro’s.

Lastly

*Spoiler*: __ 






> “We,” she (Deirdre) said, with perfect serenity, “are fighting to save the world.”





> “You’re insane,” Michael said quietly, sadly.
> Nicodemus had begun to turn away, but he paused.
> “Perhaps,” he said, his eyes distant. “Or perhaps I’m the only one who isn’t.”





> “Choirboy,” he said, contempt in his tone. “*You think you know about commitment. About faith. But yours is as a child’s daydream beside mine*.”
> “Don’t do this,” Michael said, his tone almost pleading. “Please don’t let them win.”
> “Let them win?” Nicodemus said. “I do not dance to the Fallen’s tune, Knight. We may move together, but I play the music. I set the beat.* For nearly two thousand years have I followed my path, through every treacherous bend and twist, through every temptation to turn aside, and after centuries of effort and study and planning and victory, *they follow my leadership. Not the other way around. Turn aside from my path? I have blazed it through ages of humanity, through centuries of war and plague and madness and havoc and devotion. I am my path, and it is me. There is no turning aside.”






These words from Deirde and Nic were pretty interesting and make me very curious in what their goals are and why the holy items are so important for their goals for Nic to go as far as to sacrifice Deirde (someone who he cares for so much that it goes beyond “mortal understanding”) to achieve it. Nic, the tragic misunderstood hero  ?


----------



## Lucaniel (May 28, 2014)

in response to ban & random stranger


*Spoiler*: __ 



yeah the winter knight's mantle apparently just being the removal of limiters which would wreck his body, that didn't sit right with me. for one, it - of course - discounts the increased durability and the healing. and for the other, that just plain sucks.

it sucks in a way i could understand in the context of the story, though - mab doesn't want her knights getting too dangerous, so she gives them a mantle which appears to supercharge them but is in fact gypping them, and wrecking their body too.

i hope that's not the full story, though, otherwise harry is basically ripping himself apart every time he's in a fight and that's gonna add up soon

and yeah i do read pretty fast

& i doubt nicodemus's eventual goal is anything we could sympathise with or see as a legitimate and moral enterprise. he has far too much blood on his hands. remember when he turned up in death masks trying to spread a plague throughout the world to bring about the apocalypse? and now, what, he's a misunderstood dark knight?

i hope butcher swerves off this path because it smells like bullshit to me. villains don't constantly need to be redeemed and nicodeus has been one of the best ones, up till this book, where he definitely slipped a little, mostly through being humanised


----------



## Banhammer (May 28, 2014)

Was he humanized though? I don't really see how anyone was humanized in this book
We get like, 3 character moments, and all of them sandwiched in between this rush and that rush.


*Spoiler*: __ 



  Binder and Valmont are recurring characters that relied on the idea of RECURRENT to have us think of them ( I swear, I couldn't remember either one of them, Ace got a better hand dealt to him last book), and Asch (Oh god, even her name sounds like Lasch ) need a great deal more dimension.
I liked that Goodman Grey (who is probably Grendel or something)  was kept obscure, but so did everyone else 


So as far as I'm concerned Nicodemus is still very much the same monster, maybe just more derranged now that he lost his daughter.
Any argument for "morally sympathetic" gets annihilated when one reads Michael's passage to him, or Harry's taunts


----------



## Lucaniel (May 28, 2014)

> Was he humanized though? I don't really see how anyone was humanized in this book



he was obviously humanised, dude

i didn't say he was woobified. i said he was humanised. nicodemus used to be a an incredibly dark, genocidal, cunning maniac whose only human connections (like deirdre and tessa) were tainted by separation and overtures of i*c*st. he was a monster

this book obviously changed that status quo at least somewhat


----------



## Seraphiel (May 28, 2014)

It was kinda obv Since SF that


*Spoiler*: __ 



Nic was working against the outsiders along with Anduriel, when Harry mentioned it to him Anduriel lost his shit(while stalling him)


----------



## Banhammer (May 28, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> he was obviously humanised, dude
> 
> i didn't say he was woobified. i said he was humanised. nicodemus used to be a an incredibly dark, genocidal, cunning maniac whose only human connections (like deirdre and tessa) were tainted by separation and overtures of i*c*st. he was a monster
> 
> this book obviously changed that status quo at least somewhat



I frankly don't see where.
Maybe I missed a bit. I'll be re-reading this book alter this week, but I can't quite grab at your meaning here.

I also disagree with your opinion on Mab. Not that your feelings regarding her depiction are inapropriate, just your interpertation of what is going on, I feel.


*Spoiler*: __ 



 Mab seems to set things up to Win-Wins.

Last book, many outcomes were possible. If she saved Maeve, awesome, if she didn't, Sarissa could hop to it, if either Sarissa or Lilly were taken out of comission, you can drop in Molly.
Ideal scenario was still one she didn't get, or was particularly expecting, but it was one she played for.

Same-ish for Skin Game. At this point, it seems quite alright to Mab for Dresden to die as consequence of his insufficency, and if/when Nicodemus kills Harry, Mab gets to have his head, if nick doesn't do that, then Harry will have his head, all while fulfilling and indebted bargain which is compulsive to faeries, to both Nicky and Marcone, on a situation she herself fabricated in order to produce an advantage against the outsiders

And speaking of Marcone, guess who grows a little closer to becoming the next Winter Knight  if Dresden outgrows his usefullness?

So it's not Mab that has some badly written intelect that can predict the exact ramifications of every event, so much as she is crazy prepared for other outcomes, which is somewhat understandable, given how Mothers have Intelectus







Seraphiel said:


> It was kinda obv Since SF that
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



It's also implied that 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 Nicky killed Deidre with hope the Nemesis couldn't reach her in the Underworld, isn't it? 
If Deidre has been tainted by Nemesis it certainly gives a black twist to the Denarian's character


----------



## Seraphiel (May 28, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> It's also implied that
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Pretty sure he meant the Outsiders and Nemesis in general when he said Enemy, then again Enemy could have just been him saying Adversary aka Nemesis specifically.


----------



## Lucaniel (May 28, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> I frankly don't see where.
> Maybe I missed a bit. I'll be re-reading this book alter this week, but I can't quite grab at your meaning here.




*Spoiler*: __ 



NICODEMUS SHED A TEAR OVER THE DEATH OF HIS FAMILY & WAS IMPLIED TO EMPHATHISE WITH HARRY'S PATERNAL FEELINGS????

??????????????????????????????????????

he was humanised






> I also disagree with your opinion on Mab. Not that your feelings regarding her depiction are inapropriate, just your interpertation of what is going on, I feel.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



i take your point and that does cool my ire at the whole xanatos gambit stuff a little. but regardless, i still see the dresden files as too dominated by the Powers That Be. needs a little shaking up, imo. that's why i was so wildly in love with harry threatening mab in the last book. it was a challenge to her intensely obnoxious authority


----------



## Banhammer (May 28, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I gggggggggggggggggguess....

I mean I equally expected that and the opposite reaction, but we're fifteen books in and we still know shit about Nicodemus and his goals.

I guess his desires would probably humanize him more in mind, than his pain



> i take your point and that does cool my ire at the whole xanatos gambit stuff a little. but regardless, i still see the dresden files as too dominated by the Powers That Be. needs a little shaking up, imo. that's why i was so wildly in love with harry threatening mab in the last book. it was a challenge to her intensely obnoxious authority



I agree with you and in a further direction. I think Powers that Be are too peripheral but ever present to be an effective story telling device.
Cold Days got that brilliantly, and Skin Game does have 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 A bad guy river person and 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 a double agent naglooshi 





 which is not the same, but it's somewhere along that way, but Skin Game also features no less than 4 cosmics 
*Spoiler*: __ 




Mab
Donar
Hades
Uriel
And to a lesser extent, Molly



But very little insight on the nature of cosmics, or the intricacy of their games.

Why aren't there a shit ton of gods any more? What is the system like in the Underworld? Is it like in Fae? If Mother Winter is Atropos, Thanatos, and Death, than what is Hades to her?


----------



## Zhen Chan (May 28, 2014)

There arent gods anymore becuase they dont have worshippers anymore. Combine that with having your power sucked out should you ever have a kid, and should your kid have a kid, and so forth. I imagine some gods got strecthed pretty thin and found a nice axe in thier noggin


----------



## Kikyo (May 28, 2014)

Detective said:


> Kikyo confirmed to finish this book by the year 928398293829839289829823982938, and no sooner.



Dammit, it's not my fault I only have a couple of hours to read per day. 

Keep those spoiler tags everyone. I really appreciate it. 

and now I'm leaving until I'm done with the damn book.  

Damn you Butcher!!!


----------



## jkingler (May 29, 2014)

/satisfied

Butcher. Dat badassery. Dem feels. Not the strongest in the series, and I want more answers, but it hits the spot, for now.


----------



## Detective (May 29, 2014)

jkingler said:


> /satisfied
> 
> Butcher. Dat badassery. Dem feels. Not the strongest in the series, and I want more answers, but it hits the spot, for now.



Like Galactus, our hunger begins once more.


----------



## Banhammer (May 29, 2014)

I'm going to do a second run at this book in a few days to catch all dat Ocean's Eleven trickery


----------



## Zorp (May 29, 2014)

Kikyo said:


> Dammit, it's not my fault I only have a couple of hours to read per day.
> 
> Keep those spoiler tags everyone. I really appreciate it.
> 
> ...



I know.  Combined with work and other obligations, I can read maybe 45 pages per day.


----------



## Random Stranger (May 30, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I liked that Goodman Grey (who is probably Grendel or something)  was kept obscure, but so did everyone else



*Spoiler*: __ 



Have you read the Dresden short story Heorot? A Grendel-kin (scion of Grendel) appears in there and he has physical characteristics that more resemble the forest people than the Naagloshii. The Grendel-kin had far more in common with the Genoskwa (including similar magic nullifying abilities) than Goodman Grey, so I doubt that Goodman Grey is Grendel






Seraphiel said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure he meant the Outsiders and Nemesis in general when he said Enemy, then again Enemy could have just been him saying Adversary aka Nemesis specifically.



*Spoiler*: __ 



 I though so at first too but then Harry's word to Nic confused me. 





> “The funny part is that bit about her being protected from Hell,” I said. “You brought her here and expected that she wouldn’t get her sentence? Have you read Greek mythology? Do you know the kinds of things Hades sentences people to endure? At least Hell is, by all reports, more or less nondiscriminatory. Down here, they get personal. Did you just try to give her a comforting lie at the last minute? Just to make sure she pulled the lever?”



Harry seems to interpret "Enemy" as in "Lucifer/God".Nic meaning the Outsiders and Harry just misinterpreting makes more sense though. Nic's a pretty smart and knowledgeable dude and the chances of him having overlooked something that obvious are pretty slim.


----------



## Banhammer (May 30, 2014)

Ah, well, I was mostly thinking on account of clue name and character connections
Forgot about Heerot


----------



## Seraphiel (May 30, 2014)

Random Stranger said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You got to remember Harry is clueless most of the time for our sake, so this is probably something akin to it. He just brushed Anduriels outburst  in SF as a distraction, like the rest of the convo.


----------



## Random Stranger (May 30, 2014)

Yeah,figured as much.

Your opinion on this part

*Spoiler*: __ 





> “Hell’s bells,” I stammered. “A naagloshii? You’re a freaking naagloshii?”
> Grey’s eyes narrowed and changed back to mostly human brown again. He was silent for a moment, and then said, “You didn’t choose to be the son of Margaret LeFay. You didn’t choose the legacy she left you with her blood. And she was a piece of work, kid. I knew her.”
> I frowned at him, and said nothing.
> “I didn’t choose my father, either,” Grey said. “And he was a piece of work, too. But I do choose how I live my life. So pay up.”



Did you interpret what he meant by "legacy she left you with her blood" to just mean his wizard blood? Or do you think it had some other meaning?




PS: How big do you think the chances are of us once again getting 4 chapters early like the miscon reading?


----------



## Seraphiel (May 30, 2014)

Random Stranger said:


> Yeah,figured as much.
> 
> Your opinion on this part
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I think he is basically saying you don't have to be a warlock like your mom any more than I have to be a giant cruel nightmare monster like my dad.




I have no idea, but he is finishing The Cinder Spire book 1 atm, so we won't see anything for a few months. He did however confirm  he will start writing Pece Talks(new Dresden) in a month or so. So we probably won't have to wait for as long as we had to between CD and SG.

Cinder Spire kinda messed us up with those two.


----------



## Banhammer (May 30, 2014)

I'll accept wider pacing between SG and PT than we got between SG and CD if that means a cinder spires book in between, but the half a decade that has gone by since Changes and now makes me very angry considering the ammount of story developed since


----------



## Kikyo (May 30, 2014)

Finished it! 



 

really. I sobbed twice during the book.  oh the FEEEEEEEELS!

I'll go back and read the spoilers now.

eta: 
*Spoiler*: _responses to youse guys_ 




In no particular order with general comments interspersed....

This book was all about how appearances aren't always as they seem, hence the title. The parasite was a baby spirit of intellect (*squee* gonna love this - also imo Harry had to know on some level because he spent a helluva lotta time making a wooden skull for Bob when he really could have been making other tools for his own offense/defense given the situation he felt he was in. It wasn't just a back up home for Bob, I think his id brought it to his attention so a home would be ready for the new spirit), Murphy was not up to being a Knight again, Butters (btw, is there a connection between this Butters and the South Park Butters? I never thought about it 'til just now) being the unlikeliest new Knight, Grey being a sane, rational and trustworthy Naagloshii, Nick having actual fatherly feelings, Hades being completely awesome, and even the gods taking on new/other faces. Hell even the freaking Sword of Faith changed.  it's a set up for more character advancement and certainly sets the stage for both Harry and Molly to turn the roles of the Winter Knight and the Winter Lady completely upside down. Like Michael said, "What if she CAN'T?" change Harry into a monster? what happens then?  People changed skins this book, and brought the possibility that ANYONE can change their skins to Harry's attention. Evolve or die Harry. 

Part of his evolution will be being a single father of two. Another part will be his relationship Murphy. Sorry Preet, but those two are gonna get it down and dirty as soon as they can now. I'm rather glad. I like Murphy and dammit, Harry needs some lovin'.  I've always liked their relationship. Another part will be how he deals with Winter. 

Now, how will Demonreach change and evolve as it's Warden changes and evolves? 

*insert random gushing over Hades* I totally want more of him. 

There's a story behind that prisoner in the crystal who talked to Harry at the beginning of the book, the one with the British accent who felt that it was right that he was locked up where he was. 

As for Mab playing chess with everyone... Yes, it's kinda annoying, but on the other hand, she's MAB. This is what she does and she's done it for centuries, and the mantle has been doing it for millenia. If things didn't work out the way she wanted, I'd be uttterly shocked at a turn of events that should NOT have happened.  Butcher plays back on a lot of the existing mythology for his characters. Mab never loses and only does so when it fits the faery tale (and because she wanted to lose) and it still gives a moral about not messing with her.  She's an incredibly devious spider, always 5 steps ahead of everyone else and always will be. 

Butters as a Jewish Knight of the Cross with a light saber whose faith in Star Wars is hysterical. Love it. Not really believeable, but I still love it. He'll be the most interesting Knight in a long while. If nothing else, his heart is in the right place. As for his attitude about Harry. I can't blame him. See it from his perspective, the guy that he thought protected vanilla humans hasn't done so and has seemingly abandoned humanity. Not just in general, but his own. He's turned his back on his friends and hasn't even given any kind of explanation. Harry betrayed Butters in a very real sense. And Butters, because he's a good guy in general, now feels like he needs to try and take up some of the protecting duties, even if if he is completely out of his depth. He resents it because he knows he's out of depth and Harry is right over there, doing nothing, as far as Butters can see. He's tried his best, but people are still getting hurt who wouldn't have been if Harry had been there like he had been in the past. It's childish of Butters... it's like wanting to always lean on your parents after they've had a debilitating illness or accident, not understanding why Dad isn't strong anymore. But again, it's part of how Butters changes his skin too. In the instant he says, "fuck it, I'm taking on Nick anyway even though he's totally outta my league, but dammit SOMEONE has to do it and I'm sick and tired of staying on the sidelines to save my own skin when the world is WRONG", is when he becomes a Knight. He changed, he evolved, he became something more than what he was. It's Harry's cue that he can learn to do the same with the Winter Knight's Mantle. 

As for the Mantle... no, it's not just inhibitor removal and general anesthesia. It can't be. If it was Lloyd would never have healed as fast as he did either. Yes, Harry has his wizardly healing, but Lloyd was a vanilla human before he became the Knight. And there's the magic of Winter that comes with it. I agree that it does remove the inhibitors and deadens pain, but it's not just that either. Too simple. 

Molly's not quite human anymore... interesting. She's changing and evolving too. 

I wonder who Nick is really fighting against. It could be he's fighting God(s). Trying to free humanity from them entirely. Not just as a choice to believe or not, but to remove them all from guiding humanity in any way shape or form. The Outsiders, imo, are too small a target for such a plan.

Speaking of gods... the implication is that similar gods are actually the same god. Therefore, the 3 Winter Queens are also Hecate, Odin is also Kringle, Thor is all the thunder gods, etc, etc. And of course, it's said that God always shows you the face you can deal with, so while He seems to be one god, He is actually many, all with a slightly different face. More identity games...

Back to Butters (never said I wouldn't be random rambling)... He's also showing how faith has changed in humanity over the centuries. Michael's faith was a pretty traditional one. Butters faith, different, but just as strong and well meaning. Even the concept of faith has changed it's skin in this book.

Poor Ascher and Lasciel. I really do feel sorry for them. Ascher is dead after a short, violent life, but Lasciel's coin will eventually go into circulation again once Hades cleans up his armory. (Squeeeee Hades!). She has a very personal grudge against Harry now, even more than before. 

Even the Genowska showed how not everyone is defined by what they are. He was a monster in a way that few of his kind ever are. 

So, still not understanding why Tessa wanted to stop Nick... poor tongueless squires with no faith in Old Nick anymore...

Grey's Rent can't be something with money... he only wanted a $1 from Dresden. Karmic Rent/Debt? He's trying to buy down something that you don't pay with cash. I hope we see more of him soon.

And yet another conspiracy within the Church.... 





and yeah, I gotta read it again for all the Ocean's 11 stuff too.

And dammit, want MOAR NOW!


----------



## Lucaniel (May 30, 2014)

> See it from his perspective, the guy that he thought protected vanilla humans hasn't done so and has seemingly abandoned humanity. Not just in general, but his own. He's turned his back on his friends and hasn't even given any kind of explanation. Harry betrayed Butters in a very real sense. And Butters, because he's a good guy in general, now feels like he needs to try and take up some of the protecting duties, even if if he is completely out of his depth. He resents it because he knows he's out of depth and Harry is right over there, doing nothing, as far as Butters can see.



maybe he should get it into his head that harry doesn't owe butters, or anyone else, his life/blood/sweat/whatever

the level of entitlement the people around harry (besides michael) have re: harry busting his ass for them is astounding

and while i appreciate your linking these plot developments into a larger thematic pattern, that doesn't necessarily validate them (re: everything to do with butters & the parasite)

and mab might be the bee's knees, but the power structures in dresden files aren't all that rigid. the red king fell. cowl nearly became a god. hopefully, her time to meet a reckoning will come, too

that's v. interesting re: nicodemus though


----------



## Jazzmatazz (May 31, 2014)

My preorder drug its pretty feet coming to me. So I'm only 20 chapters in...

And I certainly feel an odd tinge to what I'm reading. Like there's something obvious that both Harry and I are overlooking. This book feels all sorts of like Grave Peril, Summer Knight, and Death Masks. Which means there's a double game going on here and Harry is about to suffer another tremendous loss.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Seems clear so far that the parasite is actually something connected with Lasciel. Like, maybe her coin is literally inside of Harry's brain. Or a remnant of the shadow. The dream sex scene has clear significance. Except the eyes above the Fallen's head have always been green, I thought. The one the book described in that particular scene was purple.

PLUS, Molly as the Winter Lady went by too perfectly. Winter is all about sex and power. And Molly outranks Harry now. Technically, he works for HER. And she had the hots for Harry before getting that mantle. Things are gonna detirorate there.

And this new chick. I don't buy her just so happening to be crazy strong while being exactly the kinda person that could push Harry's buttons and read him like an open book. I think her role in the heist is to be the one to punch Harry's ticket.


----------



## Seraphiel (May 31, 2014)

@Kikyo


*Spoiler*: __ 



Tessa didn't want DD to die. That's why she interfered.




@Luc there always has to be a "Mab"/Winter Queen so even if she dies someone else will take her place and be like her in time.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 31, 2014)

Finally got time to read the book without distractions. Up to chap 13 now.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Knowing that the parasite is Lash and Harry's psychic baby has me pondering Mab's words. She said the parasite knows everything Harry does. That implies it will know everything Lash did as well. Which is... mind boggling. Its basically a Bob with millenia of knowledge, which means a crap ton of power at its disposal. I wonder if its personality is being affected by the Winter mantle. Super powerful newborn entity with amped up violence tendencies is pretty crazy.

And I like Hannah Ascher. She's totally going to die.  She's probably going to push Nic to far.

Wondering who that voice in his head is, though. Remnent of some psychic shenanigans from Molly again? Or maybe its the parasite trying to communicate? 




Fun times ahead.


----------



## Banhammer (May 31, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> maybe he should get it into his head that harry doesn't owe butters, or anyone else, his life/blood/sweat/whatever
> 
> the level of entitlement the people around harry (besides michael) have re: harry busting his ass for them is astounding



I felt butters got called out on it.

And when you read the short stories from the prespective of Thomas / Karrin / Molly, you do understand the idea that people actually look at Harry like he's Gandalf the White, and that the effect that it had on them when broke that pedestal by dying.
Particularly with such events as all these children getting kidnapped by the Fomor has been having on Butters

There's also this unreliable narrator aspect to DF where some what the characters say is twisted by what he feels. The audiobook helps in matters of tone in the conversation I think



> and mab might be the bee's knees, but the power structures in dresden files aren't all that rigid. the red king fell. cowl nearly became a god. hopefully, her time to meet a reckoning will come, too



"Demonreach, if Mab pulls that trigger, shut her down"

Crowning moment of "Fuck you!!!"


----------



## Kikyo (May 31, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> maybe he should get it into his head that harry doesn't owe butters, or anyone else, his life/blood/sweat/whatever
> 
> the level of entitlement the people around harry (besides michael) have re: harry busting his ass for them is astounding
> 
> ...


Which is why I also said it's childish of Butters, but he got over it. He took it for granted if Harry was around that he would do as he always did. As for a feeling of entitlement.. no, it's not that. Murphy often tells Harry that he doesn't have to go that far, but Harry feels he needs to. That's his personality. He always took to heart, "Having great power is great responsibility"  and always takes on too much. It's not feeling that Harry should protect the world, it's knowing that HARRY feels like he should protect the world. Butters didn't understand why he wasn't doing it for the past couple of years. And it's Harry fault for that misunderstanding, he never really told anyone what he was really going through, what his struggles were, until he told Michael and Michael told him to stop being an idiot. 


*Spoiler*: _some semi-spoilerish stuff, just in case_ 



The Red King was Butcher's own invention from the ground up, Mab isn't. He's adapting her from existing mythology. While the current Mab could die, the mantle is what makes her the way she is. Unless the mantle changes, or what I think will happen because of the themes of this book and the next person to get that mantle (which would be Molly because of the existing heirarchy) evolves, nothing really changes about the character of the Queen of Air and Darkness. She'll always be 5 steps ahead, even if the next queen is "good" (which can't really happen because she's Unseelie, even evolving, there's only so much that can change). 




And Cowl failed. 



Jazzmatazz said:


> My preorder drug its pretty feet coming to me. So I'm only 20 chapters in...
> 
> And I certainly feel an odd tinge to what I'm reading. Like there's something obvious that both Harry and I are overlooking. This book feels all sorts of like Grave Peril, Summer Knight, and Death Masks. Which means there's a double game going on here and Harry is about to suffer another tremendous loss.


Faeries do the whole playing one game to hide the real game thing. They specialize in it. 


Seraphiel said:


> @Kikyo
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


But there were other ways to stop it. I don't understand the single direct route she took. 



Bergelmir said:


> Finally got time to read the book without distractions. Up to chap 13 now.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


interesting thought. I hadn't thought it through to that point. 

*Spoiler*: __ 



I wonder what that will mean for any future plans for/against the other Fallen. How much did Lasciel know about their movements and plans? 





Banhammer said:


> I felt butters got called out on it.
> 
> And when you read the short stories from the prespective of Thomas / Karrin / Molly, you do understand the idea that people actually look at Harry like he's Gandalf the White, and that the effect that it had on them when broke that pedestal by dying.
> Particularly with such events as all these children getting kidnapped by the Fomor has been having on Butters


Yes, this. 
We, as readers, know too much about Harry's state of mind at any given time, but very little of what other people think. It's easy to oversympathize with Harry. Not that he doesn't deserve it, but don't shortchange the other characters because of it. 



> "Demonreach, if Mab pulls that trigger, shut her down"
> 
> Crowning moment of "Fuck you!!!"


I took that to mean that Demonreach could imprison Mab, not kill her. I wonder what would happen if that did occur. The living creature is still alive but trapped, The mantle wouldn't move to someone else. Talk about a power vacuum. Mab's never had such a powerful Winter Knight. "What if she can't? " Such a good question Michael. 


*Spoiler*: _Oh, Marcone!_ 




I think he's not being set up to be the next Winter Knight. I think he's setting himself up to be a Winter King. New (?) mantle and everything. There are some faery tales about an Unseelie King, and a Seelie King too.  They are often overlooked because the women are more active, but they do exist in the mythology. Marcone wouldn't suffer to be anyone's errand boy.


----------



## Banhammer (May 31, 2014)

There is no such thing as Winter Kings, but there are peers of the Winter Court, in the Wyld for example, like the Earl King


----------



## Kikyo (May 31, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> There is no such thing as Winter Kings, but there are peers of the Winter Court, in the Wyld for example, like the Earl King



No, what I'm saying is new mantle. 
According to existing mythology, there is no Unseelie Court either. The Unseelie are chaotic, no real power structure, but Butcher made one for them. So why not create another new power? According Butcher's version of the Sidhe there could very well already be a mantle for a Winter King, but it's been unused, or trapped, or he's gonna try and create a new mantle.


----------



## Lucaniel (May 31, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> I felt butters got called out on it.
> 
> And when you read the short stories from the prespective of Thomas / Karrin / Molly, you do understand the idea that people actually look at Harry like he's Gandalf the White, and that the effect that it had on them when broke that pedestal by dying.
> Particularly with such events as all these children getting kidnapped by the Fomor has been having on Butters



he did kinda get called on it eventually, yeah. by murphy, who was guilty of pretty much the same lack of trust last book. i found that kinda funny

i've read the murphy and thomas ones. i think both of them had a reasonably balanced view of harry, but i take your larger point




Kikyo said:


> *Spoiler*: _some semi-spoilerish stuff, just in case_
> 
> 
> 
> The Red King was Butcher's own invention from the ground up, Mab isn't. He's adapting her from existing mythology. While the current Mab could die, the mantle is what makes her the way she is. Unless the mantle changes, or what I think will happen because of the themes of this book and the next person to get that mantle (which would be Molly because of the existing heirarchy) evolves, nothing really changes about the character of the Queen of Air and Darkness. She'll always be 5 steps ahead, even if the next queen is "good" (which can't really happen because she's Unseelie, even evolving, there's only so much that can change).


lol i wouldn't count on being from pre-existing mythology to save her

sure, the mantle will eventually twist the next winter queen, but i could do with having a winter queen who's at least mildly bearable for the next decade of story time or so, in which time DF will likely finish



> And Cowl failed.



doesn't change the point that it's possible


----------



## Banhammer (May 31, 2014)

> The Unseelie are chaotic, no real power structure, but Butcher made one for them



And Butcher stated that Fae queens have about as much use for a king as shark does a bycicle, and that there is no such thing in faerie power structure



> i've read the murphy and thomas ones. i think both of them had a reasonably balanced view of harry, but i take your larger point



I thought Molly's short story was pretty good.
It basically tells how she got an in with the Svartalves



> doesn't change the point that it's possible



The whole point of Cold Days is that is entirely possible


----------



## Lucaniel (May 31, 2014)

do you have a link to it? :33


----------



## Banhammer (May 31, 2014)

Ah, I do believe I might have erased it. Let me check


----------



## Jazzmatazz (May 31, 2014)

About the parasite...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Dreden being brain pregnant is just a whole new level of hilarious. Heh.

So the thing is like a teenager yet what Lash did in White Night was only 6 books ago. Interesting. So when it's extracted will it have a body or will it need a vessel like Bob's skull? Hell, it'll probably be the skull Harry carved.

Can't wait to see what name Harry gives her.

"Remember how the dream ended!"

Huh. The dream ended with Murphy turning into a Denarian and shooting Harry in the head. Which won't kill him. His head is indestructible.

My guess is Harry will be immobilized (I mean, he's already been shot in the leg, has a broken arm to the point where I'm at. He won't be any use to anyone when the final showdown happens) and Murphy will have to make her own deal with the devil, literally, to save him.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 1, 2014)

Aaaaaaaaaah! That was so goddam good. Loved how things played out.


*Spoiler*: _reactions_ 



Hades is such a chill dude.  

Molly really seems like she's got her crap together. So casual about being constantly attacked in her dreams.  She's obviously hiding the bad stuff, like Harry does to others, but man. She's come a long ways from crazy Molly in Ghost Story.

And I guess the Parasite wasn't a violent crazy fallenangelwizardbabyabomination after all. Just another lost soul in need of guidance. I cannot wait for when Harry has to explain to Maggie why her sister is a spirit in a wooden skull. 

Niiiiiiic. I was starting to think Mab was never going to get back at Nic. That shit was amazing. She laid waste to the guy. Without doing a thing. 

So, I guess Nic is also out to stop the Outsiders, but through an apocalypse of his own making? And what was the deal with Tessa? The 15 centuries of investment line was weird. There's more going on there than just protecting her daughter.

I'm going to assume the Winter Mantle being a human limiter remover is just an aspect of what it does. Like, thats just how it affects the human body. Otherwise, thats a real crappy copout.

Butters ending up as a Knight was pretty cool. I wonder who was originally supposed to take up the sword, though. Butters was originally just supposed to be a minor character in just Dead Beat, and then Jim expanded on him.

Human Uriel was awesome. He had a day with free will. I do hope that comes back to alter him in some way.

Lastly, goddamn Harry's moment with Maggie. I had to put the book down and compose myself at Maggie's "do you want to be my daddy?" 




Also, man, I just realized. We're just eight years away from the end of the series. Less than a decade now.


EDIT: One more thing that I just realized, which holy shit if correct.

*Spoiler*: __ 



Is Harry no longer a cripple? He had the Winter Mantle nullified while he had the thorn manacles on, and only recent injuries were being mentioned as affecting him. And he was walking, shooting firecrackers, kicking ass just fine.

Thats really throwing me for a loop. Maybe the Winter Mantle's limiter removal thing is speeding up Harry's innate wizard healing?


----------



## Zhen Chan (Jun 1, 2014)

Yes, he hasn't realized it yet though


----------



## Kikyo (Jun 1, 2014)

Could be Demonreach helped the healing process along as well. Can't have a cripple for a Warden, right?

re: Tessa & Nick 
*Spoiler*: __ 




Could be that Tessa was up for stealing the Grail until they found out what the Gate of Blood required. It wasn't stated, but upon reflection, it seems that it needed to be a willing and true sacrifice. Meaning that one of the Squires won't do because even though they would be willing, they are, by nature, expendable. 

I still think Tessa could have come up with some better plans to prevent Deirdre from dying though... Her actions were awfully straightforward. Desperation would do that I suppose. Tessa was supposed to be in Iran, and oblivious to Nick's move.


----------



## dream (Jun 1, 2014)

Kikyo said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 




Ugh, the future Murphy/Dresden stuff is going to be terrible to go through for me but it won't last.  

Yes, Harry does need some lovin' and Molly is the best one to provide it for him. 

With the next book supposedly featuring quite a bit of Molly it'll be really interesting to see how Harry and Molly's relationship evolves.  His reasoning for not getting together with Molly has pretty much been destroyed so how will they go from here is the question.  With Murphy likely not going to last in a relationship with Harry for long that will leave Molly as an option unless she develops in a way that is pretty bad. 

In any case I'm sure that I'll have some wonderful fanfiction that will fulfill my Harry/Molly needs.


----------



## jkingler (Jun 1, 2014)

Would anyone happen to have a collection of all the Dresden side stories? I've read a few here and there (Restoration of Faith, Backup, and Heorot), but catching them all seems to be a bit tricky...I especially want Bombshells and the Bigfoot stories. /jonesin'

For the record, I enjoy Murph and Harry's banter, but I prefer Molly as a romantic interest. More interesting, IMO, and I like Molly's character better.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 1, 2014)

Neither Bombshells, Even Hand of the Bigfoot trilogy are part of the Sidejobs anthology


----------



## Cromer (Jun 1, 2014)

jkingler said:


> Would anyone happen to have a collection of all the Dresden side stories? I've read a few here and there (Restoration of Faith, Backup, and Heorot), but catching them all seems to be a bit tricky...I especially want Bombshells and the Bigfoot stories. /jonesin'
> 
> For the record, I enjoy Murph and Harry's banter, but I prefer Molly as a romantic interest. More interesting, IMO, and I like Molly's character better.



I've got 'em all, including the Dangerous Women anthology where Bombshells is collected. I'll upload 'em for you when I get home.


----------



## jkingler (Jun 1, 2014)

<3

Cromer, you're my hero.


----------



## Cromer (Jun 1, 2014)

I want to speculate about Goodman Grey a bit



*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm not at home right now, so I don't have Turn Coat to hand, but I remember the naagloshii being described as 'semi-divine'. Evidently the Holy People no longer have a place on this plane of existence (by the by, are they Outside now? Or part of the Fomor?)

What if the price (Rent) for such creatures of essential power and little to no purpose imposed with that power remaining on mortal Earth, is occasional/frequent service to mortal beings with the knowhow to call upon them? Would explain why Shagnasty seemed to be an overqualified errand boy in hock to the Circle back in TC


----------



## Cromer (Jun 1, 2014)

OK, dropbox link:


----------



## Jazzmatazz (Jun 1, 2014)

Gotta love what Butcher can do. Sets up the rules of his universe and does something unexpected anyway, but it STILL works based on those rules.


*Spoiler*: __ 



I mean, the Sword of Faith was powerful when it was a katana. But how do you make it even more powerful? By taking away the blade. It takes even greater Faith to use a sword that has no blade.

And turns out I was right about Ascher being someone there specifically to kill Harry. Should've figured it could only work if she had a personal vendetta. And carrying Lasciel's coin at that. Can't wait to see what happens with his brain baby though.

And my God...child erupting from the father's skull? Harry's brain baby is a new ATHENA! She's got half her father, warrior and half her mother, knowledge/wisdom.


----------



## Kikyo (Jun 1, 2014)

Has Curses, AAA Wizardry and Publicity and Advertising shorts.


----------



## Kikyo (Jun 1, 2014)

Jazzmatazz said:


> Gotta love what Butcher can do. Sets up the rules of his universe and does something unexpected anyway, but it STILL works based on those rules.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


That was my first thought also. I want to read what the process is and what the midwife did.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 2, 2014)

Re-reading the book casually

Here's a few lines


*Spoiler*: __ 




GoodmanGrey:
Wizard, Do you really want to have this conversation right now?
Harry:
Not yet
Goodman Grey
Wizard, You do know I'm telling you the truth, right?
Harry:
Right


----------



## Kikyo (Jun 3, 2014)

gawd, chapter 32 is always going to make me cry.


----------



## Random Stranger (Jun 3, 2014)

I just realized that female wizards draw the short straw in the whole wizarding business.

I mean it seems that wizards age normally until they reach their middle ages and from then onwards their aging slows significantly (judging by the appearance of Morgan and Binder). So the huge majority of female wizards' life will be spent in post menopauze with reduced to non-existent sexual activity (as seen with Luccio).


----------



## Random Stranger (Jun 3, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> Re-reading the book casually
> 
> Here's a few lines
> 
> ...


Or this


*Spoiler*: __ 



When Nic order Grey and the Genoskwa to hold Anna and Harry respectively:


> “Grey,” I said, “I thought you were a pro.”
> “I am,” Grey said calmly. “You knew something like this was coming, wizard.” His fingers flexed gently on Valmont’s throat, by way of demonstration. “Do you really want everyone to fall apart right now?”
> I thought about it hard for a minute. “Not yet. Look, what I did, I did for insurance,” I said, “but he’s talking about killing one of us . . .”



Looks so obvious in hindsight.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2014)

Random Stranger said:


> I just realized that female wizards draw the short straw in the whole wizarding business.
> 
> I mean it seems that wizards age normally until they reach their middle ages and from then onwards their aging slows significantly (judging by the appearance of Morgan and Binder). So the huge majority of female wizards' life will be spent in post menopauze with reduced to non-existent sexual activity (as seen with Luccio).



Not necessarily.
First of all, only female wizards can have wizard children
Second of all, wizards have an overly accute genome. Maybe it comes coded with extra eggs, or a limited regenerative ability for them


----------



## Random Stranger (Jun 3, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> Not necessarily.
> First of all, only female wizards can have wizard children
> Second of all, wizards have an overly accute genome. Maybe it comes coded with extra eggs, or a limited regenerative ability for them


Or maybe the fact that only female wizards can have children coupled with their seemingly (relative) low fertility periodes is there for a reason...to ensure that there wont be too many wizards born? It's common in fiction for long lived species to be less fertile.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 3, 2014)

Mmm, if low fertility was a thing, I feel like it would have been mentioned by now. Especially in White Knight, where female practitioners were specifically being targeted.


----------



## Random Stranger (Jun 3, 2014)

I mean low fertility as in female wizards are only fertile until they reach their late 40's or early 50s. The remainder of their long lives they are infertile. Wizards seemed to age normally until around that age and Luccio said she hadn't had sexual urges for a long time.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2014)

I know Martha Liberty lives with her descendents


----------



## Cromer (Jun 3, 2014)

Bringing up the one SC member I'm 95% certain is actually a traitor, as an example


----------



## Lucaniel (Jun 3, 2014)

lol

THEORY: COWL IS MARTHA LIBERTY


----------



## Lucaniel (Jun 3, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 





> “Whiner,” I said. “One little load of buckshot to the chest.” I offered him my hand.
> 
> Grey stared blankly at my hand for a second, as if it had taken him a moment to remember what the gesture meant. Then he took it and I pulled him up to his feet. He wobbled once, and then shook his head and steadied.
> 
> ...






i found this adorable for some reason


----------



## Lucaniel (Jun 3, 2014)

also re: the fight at the end of the book


*Spoiler*: __ 



remember back in death masks when it was all michael could do to stalemate nicodemus, and just barely,  because nicky had 2000 years of swordsmanship on him - and now in skin game it's "a good big man will beat a good small man" and so michael's dominating him?

it's not like divine intervention is visibly supercharging michael here:



> Michael and Nicodemus, meanwhile, were engaged in a furious exchange of blows. Amoracchius glowed like a beacon, and its humming power filled the air. Nicodemus’s shadow danced and threatened and obscured his form as he moved like some oily and poisonous liquid, sword flickering—but I had seen all of that before.
> I had never seen Michael going all out.
> Michael was a big guy, built broad and strong, and the contrast between him and Nicodemus was striking. There’s an old truism in fighting that says a good big man will beat a good small man. The advantage gained from having superior height, reach, and greater physical mass and power is undeniable, and for the first time, I saw Michael using it all.
> Blow after blow rained down on Nicodemus, a furious attack, and the smaller man had no choice but to give way before the assault, driven step by step backward before the onslaught of the Knight of the Sword. His lighter blade managed to flick out once, then twice, but each time Michael twisted his body to catch the blow on his mail, trusting the armor Charity had forged for him to protect him—and it did. He kept coming forward, and none of his blows was aimed to wound or incapacitate. Amoracchius swept down at Nicodemus’s head, his throat, his belly, his heart, and any one of the strikes could have delivered a mortal wound.



certainly no more than usual

so why is all of nicky's vastly superior skill suddenly doing nothing to counteract the size advantage?


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2014)

Unreliable Narrator letting his hype cloud his judgement?
 Butcher  Harry didn't think about it?
Amorachius reacting strangly to Uriel's Grace?


I didn't even notice tbh


----------



## Lucaniel (Jun 3, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> Unreliable Narrator letting his hype cloud his judgement?
> Butcher  Harry didn't think about it?
> Amorachius reacting strangly to Uriel's Grace?
> 
> ...



he should have thought about it, the fact that nicky with his 2000 years of experience is the BOAT GOAT swordsman is a pretty important part of what makes him so dangerous

*shrug*


----------



## Kikyo (Jun 3, 2014)

I think it's fully possible that female wizards are fertile well into 60s-80s. Given their healing rates, there's no reason why not. Women are born with far more eggs in their ovaries than ever mature enough during a single normal lifetime. Sex drives are purely personal. It's well documented that some post-menopausal women get MORE frisky, partly because they are no longer afraid of getting pregnant. 

I think it's Harry that forgot. Nick clearly said that he'd forgotten more sword play than many Knights of the Cross put together in this book. 

Or maybe it was Uriel's Grace.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jun 3, 2014)

> I think it's Harry that forgot. Nick clearly said that he'd forgotten more sword play than many Knights of the Cross put together in this book.



well harry is describing a scene in which michael is legit dominating nicodemus based on size and equal skill so it's not like he's gonna totally misrepresent that, which means what jim is writing is a scene in which that is actually happening

so y'know

yeah i guess uriel's grace could be it


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> he should have thought about it, the fact that nicky with his 2000 years of experience is the BOAT GOAT swordsman is a pretty important part of what makes him so dangerous
> 
> *shrug*



In this case of inconsistency, it's more about what you're willing to wave off rather than what legitimately was meant to happen


----------



## Kikyo (Jun 3, 2014)

I should be more clear. Harry forgot how good Nick is. Butcher did not forget, hence the line about forgetting swordsmanship. But since Harry forgot and he's clearly happy about Michael being up and about, he was enthusiastically describing the scene in Michael's favor. 

And there's Uriel's Grace.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 4, 2014)

So there are only four lines in which Goodman Grey speaks to Harry that foreshadow his identity

The two I mention and another two


*Spoiler*: __ 




At Marcone's Vault:
Wizard, are you sure you want to keep pressing this?
For Now

At the gate of Blood:
Do you really want for everything break apart now?
Not yet


----------



## Cromer (Jun 4, 2014)

I chalked it down to the Grace transplant and moved on.


----------



## Random Stranger (Jun 4, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> also re: the fight at the end of the book
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Assuming that Michael continued to train after getting injured, you could also make the case that being injured forced him to take two steps back and review his approach on sword-fighting starting from the basics. This lead to new insights and better understanding and his injury forced him to become more efficient etc. I mean it is not all that uncommon for athletes to come back stronger and more efficient after injury.


----------



## Random Stranger (Jun 4, 2014)

Also 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Murphy just shrugging off the blunt trauma of five point blank shots and the pain/trauma of them not even so much as forcing her to let up on some of the sword-on-sword pressure she was putting on Nic so that he could escape or at least regain his footing was at least as big BS as the Nic and Michael fight.

Winter Knight durability and pain threshold? Phsst! Murphy is not impressed.


----------



## Kikyo (Jun 4, 2014)

Random Stranger said:


> Assuming that Michael continued to train after getting injured, you could also make the case that being injured forced him to take two steps back and review his approach on sword-fighting starting from the basics. This lead to new insights and better understanding and his injury forced him to become more efficient etc. I mean it is not all that uncommon for athletes to come back stronger and more efficient after injury.



*Spoiler*: __ 



But Michael clearly stated the extent of his injuries on Demonreach. After being in the hospital that long, and doing rehab just to get him walking again, it's seriously unlikely he was able to train after that. He can't walk without the cane. He can't fight effectively. 

Unless you are talking about some other injury? He could have trained before Demonreach, but that long off his feet will dull any training he did before





Random Stranger said:


> Also
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



 itty bitty .22s Yeah, they were point blank, but they were teeny bullets, and it's not the first time she's been shot. Faith does a lot for a person especially when you've got in-your-face proof of it in your hands.

I do think that the mantle acts as a general anesthetic. It doesn't increase his pain threshold, it just blocks the pain from being felt. Women generally have a higher pain threshold than men.


----------



## Random Stranger (Jun 4, 2014)

Kikyo said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I'll admit I haven't reread the previous books in a while and dont remember the extent of Michaels injuries. I have however read the short story "Warrior" recently though (during the long wait for Skin Game) and he seemed pretty capable there all things considered. It was also just a wild theory on why Michael suddenly was able to match Nic  

PS: In case, I didn't come off clear enough, I meant that a Healed Michael+ (plus the theoritcal continued training as an invalid which lead to better understanding/efficiency due to "desperation leads to innovation") could pottentally match Nic not that invalid Michael is effective fighter. 







> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> itty bitty .22s Yeah, they were point blank, but they were teeny bullets, and it's not the first time she's been shot. Faith does a lot for a person especially when you've got in-your-face proof of it in your hands.



*Spoiler*: __ 




Relatively low rounds true but they still carry quite a kick at point blank, maybe not to completely incapacitate her but should definitely allow more than enough time/opportunity/break of concentration to allow someone like Nic to escape/regain his footing. Though I suppose the Faith argument could work.






> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I do think that the mantle acts as a general anesthetic. It doesn't increase his pain threshold, it just blocks the pain from being felt.* Women generally have a higher pain threshold than men.*



*Spoiler*: __ 



True, true and a bad choice of words on my part. My bad :sweat The bold is a misconception though bro, it is actually the other way around, look it up. The whole misconception probably started because of arguments like "there is no pain worse than giving birth", "men could never tolerate the pain of childbirth"


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 4, 2014)

Grace was confirmed to supercharge all of michael's functions within a few pages of theirfirst melding


----------



## Kikyo (Jun 4, 2014)




----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 5, 2014)

Hahaha. I remember that video. Hilarious stuff.

Any of you read the Dresden comic that came out today? Its amazing how much nostalgia I was hit with at just the sight of the Beetle


----------



## Galo de Lion (Jun 5, 2014)

Finished Storm Front a few weeks back. I really enjoyed it! HAve some other things to read before Fool Moon, but I'll definately check it out.


----------



## Random Stranger (Jun 5, 2014)

Kikyo said:


> Also, I wear a bra.






> I still think it was the Grace. Michael had been in more desperate situations, imo, than this.


 I think it was Grace as well. I was just brainstorming/diarreaing possible theories about Michae?sl sudden improvement besides just ?lol Grace?.



Bergelmir said:


> Hahaha. I remember that video. Hilarious stuff.
> 
> Any of you read the Dresden comic that came out today? Its amazing how much nostalgia I was hit with at just the sight of the Beetle


Yeah, as far as Dresden comics go, this one was pretty good. My favorite one by far. It seems that just like the books, the comics get markedly better after the Dead Beat?s time line as well. 

Wild Bill looks less redneck than I imagined, Ramirez' shit eating-grin on the other hand is like straight out of my imagination, the artist captured that one pretty well I gotta say 


Also dat fuego doe


----------



## Random Stranger (Jun 5, 2014)

TTGL said:


> Finished Storm Front a few weeks back. I really enjoyed it! HAve some other things to read before Fool Moon, but I'll definately check it out.


The first 3 books are the weakest in the series, it gets significantly better after you manage to ganbare those first 3. It then gets turned up even another notch during and after Dead Beat and epic is the only way to refer to the events in Changes.

You're in for quite a ride :smile


----------



## Cromer (Jun 5, 2014)

Random Stranger said:


> The first 3 books are the weakest in the series, it gets significantly better after you manage to ganbare those first 3. It then gets turned up even another notch during and after Dead Beat and epic is the only way to refer to the events in Changes.
> 
> You're in for quite a ride :smile



Weakest doesn't imply bad, by the way. Otherwise I agree with this post.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jun 5, 2014)

the bit in blood rites where harry explains why he can't do the pocketful-of-sunshine trick any more - because he hasn't been genuinely happy for years - is an underrated character moment

harry


----------



## Jazzmatazz (Jun 5, 2014)

That is one of my favorite lines in the entire series for what Harry's had to do. Hell, his life was relatively cheery during Blood Rites, compared to the things that would happen later.

He could probably fold up a napkin with dark matter now, probably.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 6, 2014)

man, Michael and Nicodemus exchange is still top tier though

The way they go back and forth, Nicodemus trying to manipulate Michael's better nature, and Michael trouncing over it through sheer strength of character

"Isn't it your duty to lay your life on the line for others? Sacrifice yourself, and I'll spare this woman"
"No force guides your hand other than your own! "

(loose quote, obvs)


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 7, 2014)

Little late to the party but I finally finished Skin Game.

It was fantastic. Might be one of my favorite Dresdens. 

My thoughts: 


*Spoiler*: __ 



So many awesome moments in this book. 

It was great to see Michael have an increased role this book. He's one of my favorite characters in the series and he's been sidelined for way too long. Seeing Charity again was nice. 

Butters both pissed me off and made me laugh. I like his transformation into a Knight of the Cross, his character development has been pretty well done IMO. Should be interesting the next time we see him. He'll probably be able to kick Harry's ass. 

Maggie and Harry's conversation was some heartwarming shit and this is coming from a guy who doesn't normally eat that stuff up. 

Mab and Marcone play the long game very nice. Of course, they'd be pissed about some shit that happened like five years ago. 

The parasite being Lash and Harry's psychic baby is interesting. I'm thinking it'll somehow tie into the stuff with Maggie and maybe she'll inherit her since they're technically half-sisters.

Nicodemus... He was great in this book but the next time Nick appears, I really hope Butcher builds him up as a credible threat. He got utterly embarrassed this book. Him escaping with the Holy Grail is really interesting. I'm guessing he'll be the one to kick start the apocalypse. 

On the new characters...

Hannah Aschner was very annoying... up until the twist. I didn't see that shit coming at all. I just figured she was going to get horribly killed by Nick and Dresden would mourn her or some shit. It was great to see my expectations twisted. Hopefully this isn't the last we see of Lasciel. If so, she was a bit wasted.

Goodman Grey was badass. I hope to see him face off against the Shagnasty in the future. Dresden really lucked out by getting a Skinwalker as an ally. For some reason, I have a feeling he might be related to Tera West somehow. Can't wait to see him again though.

Small as Hades' part was, he was still great. Kind of disappointed by him being yet another ally though.

The stuff with the Church was intriguing. I wonder where Butcher is going with that plotline. Maybe it'll give Father Forthill something to investigate.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 8, 2014)

He's only half-naglooshi. We don't know what that means

I wonder if he got some River People and Fallen Angel powers by eating up some of their meat chunks in Hades's vaults


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 9, 2014)

It'll still be helpful to have someone similar to a Skinwalker on Dresden's side. Hell, Grey might even be able to help Dresden understand how Shagnasty's powers work or an undiscovered weakness.

But anyway, do we have any tidbits on the next book is supposed to be about?


----------



## Lucaniel (Jun 9, 2014)

harry getting his tall privilege checked


----------



## dream (Jun 9, 2014)

> But anyway, do we have any tidbits on the next book is supposed to be about?



It will be called Peace Talks.  The White Council will be coming to town and Molly will play quite a bit of a role according to Butcher.


----------



## Random Stranger (Jun 9, 2014)

Dream said:


> It will be called Peace Talks.  The White Council *and other supernatural organizations* will be coming to town *to discuss the consequences of the Red Courts demise and what to do about them* and Molly will play quite a bit of a role according to Butcher.


Adding info that Dream for whatever reason choose to withheld from you.

Fuck you, Dream


----------



## dream (Jun 9, 2014)

Who gives a fuck about the rest, the state of the White Council is going to be the most important part. 

Unless of course ivy shows up. :33


----------



## Random Stranger (Jun 9, 2014)

Ivy showing up means Kincaid will be there too.

And if Kincaid finds out about Harry and Murphy's relationship, he's gonna give Harry one of his infamous wolf's smile and be like:

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT2ys2QvJOY[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 9, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> harry getting his tall privilege checked



I laughed more than I should have



Random Stranger said:


> Ivy showing up means Kincaid will be there too.
> 
> And if Kincaid finds out about Harry and Murphy's relationship, he's gonna give Harry one of his infamous wolf's smile and be like:
> 
> ...




As long as we actually get some time progression in this book, and isn't just yet another "flash forward a year, here's two paragraphs telling you what's up"


----------



## Random Stranger (Jun 9, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> As long as we actually get some time progression in this book, and isn't just yet another "flash forward a year, here's two paragraphs telling you what's up"


That and Harry always being out of power and incapacitated at the final confrontation and having to be saved by others (Skin Game --> Butters, Cold Days --> Mab/Murphy, Ghost Story --> Molly. Or was it Mort? Or both? I forgot, etc) are two of the few things I dislike about the Dresden Files. If Harry is notorious for anything in the Dresdenverse, it should undoubtly be for being such a big preejaculator.


----------



## dream (Jun 9, 2014)

I'm tired of seeing magical systems with finite amounts of magic for each person.  It's a terrible device that I wish people would just drop.

Forget about raw power and make the differences in power be a result of skill.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 9, 2014)

No, I'm actually cool with that. Show's he's not just an island, and that the supporting cast does play a vital role in his triumph.

All those moments were things he enabled

Mort's swagger, bringing Murphy onto the Island with the help of the Hunt and then decyphring the Circle and knocking the summers out, tossing the hilt of Fidelachius to Charity.

It's not like the Nazi's in Raiders, where they find the arc, they carry it to the isalnd, they open it and then get themselves killed.


What I'm in a boner to see is White Council trying to raise some shit against Harry, and Molly popping up being very cross at people screwing with her Knight


----------



## Random Stranger (Jun 9, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> No, I'm actually cool with that. Show's he's not just an island, and that the supporting cast does play a vital role in his triumph.
> 
> All those moments were things he enabled
> 
> ...


I see and I can understand where you are coming from...which makes me curious:

What is your opinion on the other (at least) 2 times prior to the final events of every book that he gets saved? (Examples: Cold days --> Sarissa when fighting with Red Cap, Molly when attacked by the Tinkerbells, Murphy when attacked by Baseball Ace. Skin Game --> Hannah Asher when attacked by octokong, Michael/Murphy when attacked by Genoskwa.) Those 2+ times saves prior to the finale are usually not through things he enabled, just pure luck. Harry Dresden, the luckiest unlucky man to have ever lived. Maybe his incredible luck is due to his starborn status which grants him in-verse plot protection similar to a ta'verens (wheel of time)


----------



## Lucaniel (Jun 9, 2014)

Random Stranger said:


> I see and I can understand where you are coming from...which makes me curious:
> 
> What is your opinion on the other (at least) 2 times prior to the final events of every book that he gets saved? (Examples: Cold days --> Sarissa when fighting with Red Cap, Molly when attacked by the Tinkerbells, Murphy when attacked by Baseball Ace. Skin Game --> Hannah Asher when attacked by octokong, Michael/Murphy when attacked by Genoskwa.) Those 2+ times saves prior to the finale are usually not through things he enabled, just pure luck. Harry Dresden, the luckiest unlucky man to ever live in the Dresdenverse.



sarissa having iron on her is not "luck", it's common sense. of course she would have iron on her. murphy arriving to back harry up is entirely likely given that this is what she does. ascher was part of the freaking mission with harry and would obviously be backing him up smh

murphy didn't save him from the genoskwa at all - what michael did makes perfect sense considering that they were having a big fight _right outside his house_. what's surprising is that he only came outside when it was near the end. 

"pure luck", my ass. learn to differentiate luck or deus ex machina from totally reasonable plot developments


----------



## Random Stranger (Jun 9, 2014)

Them arriving at the nick of time (classic hero entrance) is what is pure luck in those instances, bro 

Jk, jk, but you misunderstood me, those Cold Days and Skin Game examples weren't to show the times that he was saved BY LUCK but just some of the times he was saved PERIOD. 

I didn't say that all instances in which he gets saved are pure luck, just most... the Cold Days examples of Molly and Murphy are pure luck though...or unrealistically convenient or whatever you want to call it.


----------



## Kikyo (Jun 9, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> murphy didn't save him from the genoskwa at all - what michael did makes perfect sense considering that they were having a big fight _right outside his house_. what's surprising is that he only came outside when it was near the end.



Charity was keeping him from going outside and sacrificing himself for Harry and Murphy. Family is important to them both, and Charity doesn't want to raise all the kids on her own, they need a father (as she says later).


----------



## Lucaniel (Jun 9, 2014)

Kikyo said:


> Charity was keeping him from going outside and sacrificing himself for Harry and Murphy. Family is important to them both, and Charity doesn't want to raise all the kids on her own, they need a father (as she says later).



oh, yeah, forgot about her


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 9, 2014)

Its certainly sugestive of recurring plot element, where a character is introduced into the plot by showing up just when Harry needs them, but hardly an indicator of Harry's competence, but rather a drawback of Butcher's "3-day adventures" style of writing..

Particularly in case of Butters Michael and Murphy, since that's one of the defining attributes of a Knight of the Sword, or Molly on account of Mab's machinations, whose rescue is no more a product of luck than Goodman Grey's was


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 9, 2014)

In fact, a Big Damned Hero sense is later exploited by Nicodemus for his own gain, when he orchestrates a nuclear crisis in Iran, and then a Hostage Situation at the gate of Blood, so that he has a free hand to enact his real plans


----------



## Lucaniel (Jun 12, 2014)

Dream said:


> _Skin Games Predictions_
> 
> Harry finally becomes a bit receptive to the idea of hooking up with Molly...yeah I'm reaching but a man can dream.



lmfao this actually kind of happened


----------



## Cyphon (Jun 22, 2014)

Finally got around to reading and finishing Skin Game. 

I thought it started out pretty slow but really picked up once Michael started getting involved. 

Are we still spoiler tagging at this point? Just in case.


*Spoiler*: __ 



I thought Butters moment was pretty cool but would have been much better if he had actually died instead of becoming a Knight. Don't get me wrong I like Butters, but that moment was set up so well for him to go out like a champ. Would have had such a great impact too.

I haven't seen anyone really talk about Bob glancing through the other spoilers. I can't remember but have we been given limits on his powers and capabilities in the previous books? I know why Harry didn't want to use him/have him out in public but he seems really effective on the battlefield. I would be interested to know just how he stacks up and what his potential is. 

I thought one of the better moments was actually Harry and Maggie. I don't always get into the sappy shit but I thought it was handled just about perfectly. Butcher made her super cute without taking it too annoying levels.

Outside of that I thought Michael really stole the show. Everything he did was pretty badass. I also liked Grey.





Anyway, good stuff.


----------



## dream (Jun 22, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> lmfao this actually kind of happened







Cyphon said:


> Are we still spoiler tagging at this point? Just in case.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



We probably don't have to at this point, it's nearly been a month since the book came out, plenty of time for most people to have read it.


*Spoiler*: __ 





Butcher loves Butters too much to kill him this soon or but I do agree that him dying would have been better.

The Harry & Maggie moments were pretty good I suppose.

Michael was amazing here.


----------



## Kikyo (Jun 22, 2014)

I don't think we'd been given actual, solid limits on Bob's abilities, just why Dresden never took him out of the lab. I think Dresden just assumed that Bob didn't affect more than book pages for the most part because he couldn't, or that such expenditure of power was too costly. It will be interesting to see what the cost of using that power is for Bob in future books, or if there is even a cost. I would assume there is, magic seems to work that way in this world.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 22, 2014)

there is a  cost, but so far, it seems to be revirsible.

When Harry whips him out in changes, he provides great telepathic shielding but he has to go to the skull convalesce for a few months


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jun 30, 2014)

Finally read all the current books out. I didn't think Harry could get any more banged up in _Skin Game_ than he had been in the previous books, but Butcher never fails in his capacity to come up with new, fun ways to torture the hero. 


*Spoiler*: _Skin Game_ 



Good God, Butters. The good doctor has come so far. From helpless innocent to faking being a Warden and being Bob's new master to becoming a Knight of the Cross...Butters just took several levels of Badass in this book. I'm so proud of him. 

I never would have suspected that Butters would become the wielder of Kusanagi. Hehehe, I wonder what he'll tell his mother about his new job. Oh yeah, and Andi. If Butters has told his mom about his new girlfriend at all. 

Michael Carpenter...he always makes me wonder in awe He's absolutely BADASS in here. The way he calmly spoke to Nicodemus, who had injured Murphy so badly and had Harry on the ropes. It was great having him wield Amoracchius again. 

Mab, you evil Magnificent Bitch. She, Hades and Marcone were all in this against Nicodemus. He really didn't stand a chance against them. 

Hades...my favorite Greek God. I love what Butcher did with him. Out of all the Greek Gods, Hades is the most fair and just. Television and the media just don't seem to do a good job with him at all, save for a few distinct writers. The chapter with Harry speaking with Hades in that frozen moment of time was a Crowning Moment of Awesome. Hopefully, Harry doesn't have to do something like this again in Hades' domain, because next time the God of the Dead won't be so merciful. 

Maggie was so sweet. And she asked Harry if he wanted to be her daddy. Crowning Moment of Heartwarming.

Never thought that Harry and "Lash" had a child together. Reminds me of Zeus having Athena, though his first wife was Metis, whom he had swallowed after learning that she would bear a son that would overthrow him. So I guess Harry has another spirit of intellect on his side...well, I suppose Bob will still help out Butters, since he can't be with Harry.


----------



## Jazzmatazz (Jul 5, 2014)

Think you could've squeezed in a few dozen more tropes there, sister? (I'm assuming you're female, if not, I apologize).

Anywho. I find that I thoroughly disagree with a theory Butters mentions.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Namely that the Winter Knight mantle doesn't actually give Harry more strength and speed than normal. It just bypasses his body's natural limits without feeling the pain and releases way more testosterone than normal, causing the sex drive and territorial, predatory aggression to skyrocket. While I it clearly shows that it does blockout some pain, limits cut or not, Dresden jumped a crazy distance when he beat Fix to the ground in Cold Days. 

He gave an exact figure thanks to the intellectus, but whatever, he did it. And unless he was unintentionally giving himself a boost somehow, like through Demonreach, that's more than just what a human could do. And it's making him able to walk again...which makes me wonder about something.

How is he able to walk when the Bigfoot hater and the enemy Little Folk shove nails into his arms and legs? If the mantle is keeping him walking, and iron disrupts it, shouldn't that paralyze him again?  Butcher doesn't tend to miss important details like that. So, does this suggest that the thing that's keeping his back moving isn't directly tied to faere magic?

Also...I think Mab likes Harry much more than she lets on. I mean, she friggin SLAPPED him for calling her a bitch. You'd think Mab wouldn't care about what Harry thinks of her, especially when in private. What if Mab is the the world's biggest tsundere? I mean, defrosting ice queen? She is THE ice queen. And Harry has been compared to Tam Lin, a Winter Knight which Mab loved once. She's confided things in Harry she has no business doing, like that she was human once, risked her own being by keeping him alive after he got shot, given him a far longer leash than necessary when Harry's thickheaded idiot moments drag.

But in the end, just musing about random things.

I for one, am also curious as to what Harry is gonna call his spirit daughter. He's got a significant ability to give Names to things, so this should be another significant deal. Maybe something that starts with an A, cuz she's basically Athena.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jul 18, 2014)

> “He’s the most awesome dog ever,” I said.
> 
> That pleased her immensely. “I know!”



;_______________;


----------



## Cromer (Jul 18, 2014)

Jazzmatazz said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would assume that his wizardly healing factor has been working, to the point where when the Mantle is disrupted his back is now merely one long column of pain, rather than entirely lacking feeling. His nervous system has grown back o some extent, at least.


----------



## Random Stranger (Sep 5, 2014)

1 hour video of  butcher at Dragon Con 2014.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 5, 2014)

I ship MollyxEveryone though, this is good news for me


----------



## Bergelmir (Sep 5, 2014)

Random Stranger said:


> 1 hour video of  butcher at Dragon Con 2014.


----------



## Random Stranger (Sep 5, 2014)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



About Harriel, I think it depends on how her loyalty works. If it changes to whoever holds the skull and she has no sense of right and wrong like bob, it might be too dangerous to let Maggie know of her. If her loyalty is to Harry alone as her sire or she has no loyalty restriction/is independent then I dont see the danger

I gotta say the 3 months time-skip both pleases and displeases me. The positive point is that Murphy most likely wont be completely healed and will have to take a backseat this book. The negative point will be that this will be the fourth book in a row with a nerfed Harry. No shieldbracelet, no forcerings and no blasting rod. If he's lucky he may have just enough time for one of those things in between the liquidation of the diamonds, finding and moving in a suitable home (or will he just crash in with the Carpenters or Murphy?) and building a half decent lab.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 5, 2014)

I just hope it isn't a 3 day novel like the past ten


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 5, 2014)

i can't honestly remember the last dresden novel that didn't take place over a relatively short timescale and i don't see anything wrong with that ?\_(ツ)_/?


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 5, 2014)

> - Some mention about Butters working out a la Stallone in Rocky III to "Eye of the Tiger."



hahahahaha oh fuck off 

i hope butters either dies, loses the sword, or gets crippled beyond healing, in this book. the whole situation of him not only being a knight of the cross, but wielding a fucking lightsaber, is ridiculous to the extent that it's actually making a joke out of a pretty serious and cool part of the DF mythos


----------



## Bergelmir (Sep 5, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> I just hope it isn't a 3 day novel like the past ten


I imagine all the case file books are going to be like that, Ban. The time limit of  3-4 days is part of Butcher's formula. Easy way to increase tension, after all. I do hope the BAT will take longer than that in each book, though.



Random Stranger said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



The rules for Bob might not apply to Harriel, since she's some kind of angel-wizard tulpa abomination.

What I meant, though, was that I want Harriel interacting with Maggie and Harry instead of being hidden away. It would be a nice change up from the Bob set up.

I'm okay with Harry being without his tools for a while. Winter Knighting has beefed up his power and skills even without relying on the WK mantle.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 5, 2014)

harry being without his tools would be good if it was making him a better wizard

i honestly haven't seen a noticeable increase in his finesse and ability to evocate with precision akin to what luccio did in dead beat with that laser-beam that KOed like 30 zombies, etc


----------



## Bergelmir (Sep 5, 2014)

I doubt we're ever going to see Harry use a spell like that no matter how much more skilled he gets. Harry is always going to be a "why use a scalpel when you have a machete" kind of guy.


----------



## dream (Sep 5, 2014)

Random Stranger said:


> *Spoiler*: _too long, didnt watch_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fucking Butcher.  He's rapidly falling down the list of my favorite authors.  



			
				Bergelmir said:
			
		

> I doubt we're ever going to see Harry use a spell like that no matter how much more skilled he gets. Harry is always going to be a "why use a scalpel when you have a machete" kind of guy.



Eh, given enough time he might become a wizard that frequently uses finesse but that's be long after the books are finished.


----------



## Kikyo (Sep 5, 2014)

Dresden is still young in wizard terms. He also reacts a lot more than his elders do. He's often surprised by getting into the situations he gets into. He needs more intel and he's finally starting to get it with the relationships he's been making and cultivating and the positions/titles he's holding. He's been outside of the Wizarding World for a long time. He's starting to grow up, finally... fatherhood tends to do that. 

video is TLDW, but I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## Zhen Chan (Sep 5, 2014)

Lucaniel said:


> hahahahaha oh fuck off
> 
> i hope butters either dies, loses the sword, or gets crippled beyond healing, in this book. the whole situation of him not only being a knight of the cross, but wielding a fucking lightsaber, is ridiculous to the extent that it's actually making a joke out of a pretty serious and cool part of the DF mythos



Butters dying a horrible death would make my year


----------



## dream (Sep 5, 2014)

Kikyo said:


> Dresden is still young in wizard terms.



All too true.  He hasn't even hit his first century which is by the time when wizards/witches seem to really start getting good.



Zhen Chan said:


> Butters dying a horrible death would make my year



Butcher likes Butters too much to kill him off.


----------



## Zhen Chan (Sep 10, 2014)

Dream said:


> Butcher likes Butters too much to kill him off.



Butchee hinted butters end as a knight will be both bloody and happen before the trilogy


----------



## Cromer (Sep 10, 2014)

Man, why you guys hating on the Polka Knight?


----------



## Seraphiel (Sep 10, 2014)

Cromer said:


> Man, why you guys hating on the Polka Knight?



Because he became unbearable and while I love Jim, the lightsaber holy sword is just awful.

Not that Jim didn't foreshadow it in grave peril and ghost story, I should have known.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 10, 2014)

Eh, maybe it's just me then. Because while I was supremely irritated with Butters for most of the book, in the end he still managed to impress me somewhat. Certainly not unbearable.


----------



## dream (Sep 11, 2014)

Cromer said:


> Man, why you guys hating on the Polka Knight?



I loved him earlier on, he was awesome in the seventh book, but in the recent books his personality just took a dive in my opinion.


----------



## Seraphiel (Sep 11, 2014)

Cromer said:


> Eh, maybe it's just me then. Because while I was supremely irritated with Butters for most of the book, in the end he still managed to impress me somewhat. Certainly not unbearable.



Midlife crisis batman, berating Harry all the time. Just horrible.

I liked him a lot before that.


----------



## Kikyo (Sep 11, 2014)

I think Butcher wanted to do ridiculous. Why else have a Jewish Knight of the Cross with a Lightsaber? It provides a bit of comic relief in this very dark direction the stories have been going in. 

I sympathize with Butters's attitude towards Dresden. I think it's understandable and very brave of him to behave towards Dresden as he does, but I've said all that before.


----------



## Detective (Sep 14, 2014)

*Fun fact:* Butter's is also banging/living with busty redhead Andi. JB lives vicariously through him.


----------



## Jazzmatazz (Feb 6, 2015)

The first line of Peace Talks has been tweeted by Jim Butcher:

*Spoiler*: __ 




My brother ruined a perfectly good run by saying, "Justine is pregnant."


----------



## Zorp (Feb 7, 2015)

Jazzmatazz said:


> The first line of Peace Talks has been tweeted by Jim Butcher:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Hoooly. 

How is that even possible with the whole "touching burns me" thing? 

I really need to brush up on Dresden.  Completely forgot what Thomas has been up to since Harry came back to life.  I think he feeds on people now, but my brain is fuzzy.

Wonder if there is a projected release date for Peace Talks...


----------



## dream (Feb 7, 2015)

> How is that even possible with the whole "touching burns me" thing?



Artificial insemination?  

Anyways, not too sure that I like this.  Perhaps if the kid doesn't play much of a role I won't mind I suppose.


----------



## Zorp (Feb 7, 2015)

Dream said:


> Anyways, not too sure that I like this.  Perhaps if the kid doesn't play much of a role I won't mind I suppose.



Harry gets a kid.

Thomas gets a kid.

Who's next?


----------



## dream (Feb 7, 2015)

Molly has Harry's baby.


----------



## jkingler (Feb 8, 2015)

As in she is in possession of he and Lash's brain-babe? Or a new baby of her own?


----------



## dream (Feb 8, 2015)

New baby of her own. 

Also, I was responding to Zorp's post just in-case you didn't realize that.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 8, 2015)

Dream said:


> Artificial insemination?
> 
> Anyways, not too sure that I like this.  Perhaps if the kid doesn't play much of a role I won't mind I suppose.



Good ol' fucking

That's how thomas and his sisters got made


----------



## jkingler (Feb 8, 2015)

The White Court uses only the finest reverse condoms, made by Durex's specialty division, Urex. Reverse condoms: for the one you love. Full body condoms with one opening - just the tip.


----------



## Zorp (Feb 8, 2015)

Dream said:


> Molly has Harry's baby.



Murphy has Kincaid's baby.


----------



## dream (Feb 11, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> Good ol' fucking
> 
> That's how thomas and his sisters got made



Yeah but Thomas burns whenever he touches Justine.  I imagine that having sex with her would be rather hard. 



Zorp said:


> Murphy has Kincaid's baby.



Kek.

Anyways, new Dresden Files comic, Down Town, is out.


----------



## Detective (Feb 11, 2015)

Dream said:


> Yeah but Thomas burns whenever he touches Justine.  I imagine that having sex with her would be rather *hard*.



Really, Preet?


----------



## dream (Feb 13, 2015)

It was unintentional.


----------



## Cromer (Feb 13, 2015)

That *was* rather transparent


----------



## Nimander (Feb 16, 2015)

Zorp said:


> Hoooly.
> 
> How is that even possible with the whole "touching burns me" thing?
> 
> ...



Just reread the series so I can answer this question.

Justine came up with the method of recruiting other women for Thomas to..."ahem" feed on, right before they have their own time together. She's his "nutritionist" as Thomas called her. If he's been moody, she finds someone peppy. If he's been angry/upset, she finds a happy lady, etc. Right before Harry said something along the lines of "Every single man alive hates you right now. Starting with me." One of his funnier lines in that book actually.


----------



## Banhammer (Mar 11, 2015)

last few DF comics haven't been as bad as usual 

A little good even


----------



## Cromer (Mar 11, 2015)

Haven't bothered since Ghoul Goblin tbh.


----------



## Seraphiel (Apr 17, 2015)

goddamnit



> ~28min: for some information about the new Cinder Spires series.
> ~53min: Spinoff series after Dresden Files is complete, which stars a character we've already met before but he won't say who.
> And the young adult series with Maggie and Mouse attending St. Mark's academy for the gifted and talented.
> 54min50: Maggie has tons of issues, "crippling social anxiety"and needs support from Mouse, except when things go wrong then she's fine.




goddamnit



> ~19min: one of his favourite faerie-like characters is the Joker from the Dark Knight.
> ~28min15: How Harry feels about the "Mab experience" in Changes.
> ~42min15: How Toot toot developed as he progressed with the story.
> ~47min8:  Toot toot and the Za lord's guard play xbox.
> ...




And for what the peace talks in Peace Talks will be


*Spoiler*: __ 




"...All the member nations of the Unseelie Accords are gathering together, and they're going to try to make peace with the Fomor."


----------



## dream (Apr 17, 2015)

Seraphiel said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 




Oh snap.  Time to see Ferrovax-kun? 

Drakul-kun as well? 

Based Ivy? 

This is going to be great.


----------



## Seraphiel (Apr 17, 2015)

Dream said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 




Man I can't wait to see Drakul sama since he can take Mab straight up, he must be insane. Talking about it with luc in VM's rofl. Yep Ferro kun for sure.


----------



## dream (Apr 17, 2015)

Seraphiel said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 




That feeling when Mab is nothing special herself.  Mere planetary level force (I think).  Based Uriel destroys galaxies with a thought.


----------



## Lucaniel (Apr 17, 2015)

jim's christianity lip service OP


----------



## dream (Apr 17, 2015)

Would have preferred a supernatural playground where one force wasn't so dominant. 

On a semi-related note, I hate the concept of masks that supernatural entities can wear.


----------



## Lucaniel (Apr 17, 2015)

Dream said:


> Would have preferred a supernatural playground where one force wasn't so dominant.
> 
> On a semi-related note, I hate the concept of masks that supernatural entities can wear.



why, because it means the cast of mythological figures is smaller?


----------



## dream (Jul 2, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> why, because it means the cast of mythological figures is smaller?



That is part of it.  My issue is more with how personalities can be shaped by the masks.  When Odin wears the Kringle mask he has a different personality.  The concept just turns me off.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jul 2, 2015)

yeah i can see that. i don't mind if it's one mask on one person, where that mask can irrevocably change that person if the person can't resist its influence (winter lady, winter knight), but if someone has multiple masks and they act like a different person with each new mask, and if this is because they are essentially different people every time? then that's dumb

but i think the implication with odin and kringle is that when he's kringle, he's just...pretending, really. he's odin underneath. like, odin and kringle aren't just technically the same person - it's more that the same person is playing both odin and kringle, but there's a single, consistent personality underneath both the masks. you see what i mean?


----------



## Nicodemus (Jul 13, 2015)

Dream said:


> Would have preferred a supernatural playground where one force wasn't so dominant.
> 
> On a semi-related note, I hate the concept of masks that supernatural entities can wear.



Eh, the Angels might be galaxy-busting, but since there's no situation in which they'd ever be able to actually wield that power does it really matter?

I mean yeah, DF Christianity's at the top of the food chain but they're so limited in how they can act that they're basically a non-factor.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jul 13, 2015)

rereading skin game



> A gut instinct told me that Mab’s little painkiller wasn’t actually helping me, except to hide the pain I would otherwise be feeling. I’d poured out a lot of energy into just a couple of spells back at the hotel, and doing it without my tools had been hard work. I’d been forced to draw upon the Winter mantle just to keep the pace I needed to stay alive. There wasn’t any hard information on how the mantle would interact with my abilities, *since to the best of my knowledge there had never been a Winter Knight with a wizard’s skills before*—but I was pretty sure that the more I leaned on that cold, dark power, the more comfortable I would get in doing so, and the more potential it would have to change who and what I was.





so harry is unprecedented. an unknown quantity. mab may not be aware of everything he could do with the mantle

fingers crossed harry somehow reverses the mantle's connection to winter so that he can send unblockable death magic at mab and finally off that bitch


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 14, 2015)

Same here.

Ever since I realized that Harry's spine is healing up, I've been hoping for a scene where Mab forcibly removes the Winter Mantle(somehow). And instead Harry crumpling to the ground like she expects, we get Mab (finally) being shocked and Harry sucker punching the ever-living shit out of her.


----------



## Seraphiel (Jul 14, 2015)

Guys so far Jim only wrote one sentence. Feb-April release next year most likely since he has to turn it in by October this year.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 14, 2015)

bugger me butcher. At least I expect the aeronaut's windlass to be done quickker


----------



## Seraphiel (Jul 14, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> bugger me butcher. At least I expect the aeronaut's windlass to be done quickker



It's already done and releasing in 2 months.


----------



## dream (Jul 15, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> yeah i can see that. i don't mind if it's one mask on one person, where that mask can irrevocably change that person if the person can't resist its influence (winter lady, winter knight), but if someone has multiple masks and they act like a different person with each new mask, and if this is because they are essentially different people every time? then that's dumb
> 
> but i think the implication with odin and kringle is that when he's kringle, he's just...pretending, really. he's odin underneath. like, odin and kringle aren't just technically the same person - it's more that the same person is playing both odin and kringle, but there's a single, consistent personality underneath both the masks. you see what i mean?



If it is just a single consistent personality that acts out different roles then it isn't so bad though I would prefer it if the system didn't exist in the first place. 



Nicodemus said:


> Eh, the Angels might be galaxy-busting, but since there's no situation in which they'd ever be able to actually wield that power does it really matter?
> 
> I mean yeah, DF Christianity's at the top of the food chain but they're so limited in how they can act that they're basically a non-factor.



Pls, Nico.  They are going to be wielding their power in the apocalyptic trilogy to fuck shit up. 

Non-factor?  They helped wipe out an entire supernatural group with some absurdly minor expenditure of power.   When they want to, they can generate waves.  Heck, Michael killed a Dragon.  A being in the same ballpark as Mab in terms of raw power.  Because TWG/an archangel decided that said dragon needed to die.  I wouldn't call them a non-factor.     



Lucaniel said:


> rereading skin game
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't think that it will matter much in the grand scheme of things.  Mab doesn't seem like the kind of person to overlook such a possible weakness.  She will certainly have some contingencies in place.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 15, 2015)

Dream said:


> If it is just a single consistent personality that acts out different roles then it isn't so bad though I would prefer it if the system didn't exist in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not to mention pretty much everything that happens in the book series. Butcher has hammered in the point that all the ass Harry is kicking is pretty much the White God moving chess pieces around. 

All the powerful beings and shit we've seen are apparently just pawns in the White God's game.


----------



## dream (Jul 18, 2015)

Bergelmir said:


> All the powerful beings and shit we've seen are apparently just pawns in the White God's game.



Would not be surprised if this was the case.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jul 19, 2015)

Dream said:


> Heck, Michael killed a Dragon.  A being in the same ballpark as Mab in terms of raw power.


let's not equate all dragons to ferrovax
that's...like equating all fairies to mab   


Bergelmir said:


> Not to mention pretty much everything that happens in the book series. Butcher has hammered in the point that all the ass Harry is kicking is pretty much the White God moving chess pieces around.
> 
> All the powerful beings and shit we've seen are apparently just pawns in the White God's game.


i've wondered about this
is butcher christian?

if not, what is with his need to put christianity at the top of df in both power and morality?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 19, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> let's not equate all dragons to ferrovax
> that's...like equating all fairies to mab


Jim has outright said that Siriothrax was in Ferrovax' league. He was a Dragon, one of the beings that govern the universe. That said, Siriothrax was one of the weakest of the Dragons.

So if Ferrovax is Mab, its like saying Siriothrax is Molly.



> if not, what is with his need to put christianity at the top of df in both power and morality?


He's been asked this several times. The reason Christian beings are the top dogs is because Christianity is the largest religion in the world. He's just drawing from real life in that regard.

Belief and faith gives power. Vast quantities of belief/faith gives vast amounts of power.

This is a plot point of the series. Its how Mab and Titania consolidated their power. Why they had the Grimm brothers publish the Grimm Fairy Tales. Its why the Oblivion War is a thing. Knowledge, Belief, and Faith are dangerous things in the Dresden-verse.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jul 19, 2015)

> Jim has outright said that Siriothrax was in Ferrovax' league. He was a Dragon, one of the beings that govern the universe. That said, Siriothrax was one of the weakest of the Dragons.
> 
> So if Ferrovax is Mab, its like saying Siriothrax is Molly.


all dragons govern the universe? 
could you link me to this



> He's been asked this several times. The reason Christian beings are the top dogs is because Christianity is the largest religion in the world. He's just drawing from real life in that regard.
> 
> Belief and faith gives power. Vast quantities of belief/faith gives vast amounts of power.
> 
> This is a plot point of the series. Its how Mab and Titania consolidated their power. Why they had the Grimm brothers publish the Grimm Fairy Tales. Its why the Oblivion War is a thing. Knowledge, Belief, and Faith are dangerous things in the Dresden-verse.


yeah but there are some caveats to this 

christianity sprung up around 2000 years ago but the way uriel and co. talk, it's like they've been around since the big bang, and harry never - not even mentally - contradicts any of it

dresdenverse makes a fair connection between faith and the power of magic, yes, and so pagan gods are to some extent fuelled by the remnants of belief in them as well as accumulated personal power and so on

but for some reason that explanation is never given in regards to christianity, it's treated as the one true religion rather than just the temporary top dog amidst hundreds of competing belief systems

as if butcher is somehow shying away from actually suggesting that the representatives of christianity in the verse might be as much a product of faith inflating fiction as any other god


----------



## Cromer (Jul 19, 2015)

I remember it as Word of Jim that Dragons govern certain aspects of reality, and that Dragons in the DF are more akin to the Eastern conceptual beings than the Western firebreathing flesh beasts.


----------



## Nicodemus (Jul 19, 2015)

Dream said:


> Pls, Nico.  They are going to be wielding their power in the apocalyptic trilogy to fuck shit up.



Fair enough.



Dream said:


> Non-factor?  They helped wipe out an entire supernatural group with some absurdly minor expenditure of power.   When they want to, they can generate waves.  Heck, Michael killed a Dragon.  A being in the same ballpark as Mab in terms of raw power.  Because TWG/an archangel decided that said dragon needed to die.  I wouldn't call them a non-factor.



Who'd they wipe out? I honestly can't remember.

Michael only killed Siriothrax because he was fucking around with mortal practitioners, for some reason. The Knights are powerful, but there's only three of them and they have to be acting in the right circumstances. 

It's not like every supernatural group is cowering in fear of the christian god, most of them go about their business completely unimpeded. The only people that have to consistently worry about them are the Denarians. 

They have been manipulating a lot behind the scenes but that's hardly something only they can do.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jul 19, 2015)

> Who'd they wipe out? I honestly can't remember.



he's talking about the red court


----------



## Nicodemus (Jul 19, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> he's talking about the red court



That was behind the scenes stuff though, not a direct application of the white god's power.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 19, 2015)

I don't think Christianity is being treated as an "Apex Predator" but it does tend to come off as such because we've seen the side of cosmic forces that expresses itself through it, and because since that side is monotheistic, it makes you feel like just because it transmits little super natural finesse, that it's because it's too strong for it.

It could be other players have comparable total power, but not the same limits and thus different outputs of work. 

Like a cargo train vs an equivalent number of cargo trucks

The power of Winter is what saves reality after all, not just "mab" and we do know other systems come and go. 

"Oh but they say they have been around since creation, but the form of their religion is only 2000 years old"

Well, two things are possible:

1) Mankind has only been aware of them  for 2000 years

2) Mankind shaped them to have been there since the beginning of creation, 2000 years ago


----------



## Zorp (Jul 19, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> christianity sprung up around 2000 years ago but the way uriel and co. talk, it's like they've been around since the big bang, and harry never - not even mentally - contradicts any of it



If Butcher is drawing from real-life Christianity, it makes sense since the angels are implied to have been around far longer than the created universe.  The Bible doesn't say _when_ they were created, but they weren't part of either creation story in Genesis, implying they already existed before anything else.

For example, Satan tempts Adam and Eve near the beginning of the Bible.  Christian tradition holds that he used to be one of the top angels (along with Gabriel, Michael, and Raphael) and that, due to his jealousy towards humankind, he staged a rebellion against God.  So he must have been a top angel for X amount of time before the creation of the world.

Angels are also likened to forces of nature.  Whenever they appear in the Bible, people piss themselves and the angel has to say, "Do not be afraid."  It wouldn't surprise me if Butcher is making that kind of a connection when Uriel talks as if he's been around forever.  Heck, he probably imploded a few galaxies in his day.

So, yes, peoples' belief/faith in gods maintains and even strengthens their power in the Dresdenverse, but those gods are not born from peoples' belief.  How long those gods existed before humanity and how powerful they were before religious devotion remains nebulous.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jul 19, 2015)

Zorp said:


> If Butcher is drawing from real-life Christianity, it makes sense since the angels are implied to have been around far longer than the created universe.  The Bible doesn't say _when_ they were created, but they weren't part of either creation story in Genesis, implying they already existed before anything else.
> 
> For example, Satan tempts Adam and Eve near the beginning of the Bible.  Christian tradition holds that he was one of the top angels (along with Gabriel, Michael, and Raphael) and that, due to his jealousy towards humankind, he staged a rebellion against God.  So he must have been a top angel for X amount of time before the creation of the world.
> 
> ...


of course they're born from peoples' belief. it's not as if they were just randomly discovered after having been around the whole time

how can every single creation myth of every single monotheistic (or even polytheistic) religion simultaneously be true? that's the implication of saying they've all been around the whole time. they're fiction breathed into life


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 19, 2015)

Oh there's a wonderful metaphor from comics that I like to use at a time like this:


The supernatural is like the internet. You might be using different browsers to tap into it, like  Chrome or Firefox, each with their own quirks, and central service providers, but ultimately, you're looking at the same thing


----------



## Zorp (Jul 19, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> of course they're born from peoples' belief. it's not as if they were just randomly discovered after having been around the whole time
> 
> how can every single creation myth of every single monotheistic (or even polytheistic) religion simultaneously be true? that's the implication of saying they've all been around the whole time. they're fiction breathed into life



Oh, there's definitely ways to get around that.  Like, "There's one Truth with different aspects."  Many religions have common elements.  Some may reflect the Truth more distinctly than others, but they would still point toward the same source.  All the mythological figures don't have to be equal or even on the same page in all regards.

If we maintain that all gods are fiction breathed into life by peoples' imaginations, we run into some problems.  For example, if people believe that the Christian God created them, does he suddenly retroactively exist and create them?  Would he not only have the powers they ascribe to him going forward in time, but also back in time?  I don't know, but it seems more likely that the gods existed before people and that their power just waxed and waned based on how many people came to know of, and believed in, them.



Banhammer said:


> Oh there's a wonderful metaphor from comics that I like to use at a time like this:
> 
> 
> The supernatural is like the internet. You might be using different browsers to tap into it, like  Chrome or Firefox, each with their own quirks, and central service providers, but ultimately, you're looking at the same thing



That metaphor is actually quite fitting.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jul 19, 2015)

> Oh, there's definitely ways to get around that. Like, "There's one Truth with different aspects." Many religions have common elements. Some may reflect the Truth more distinctly than others, but they would still point toward the same source. All the mythological figures don't have to be equal or even on the same page in all regards.
> 
> If we maintain that all gods are fiction breathed into life by peoples' imaginations, we run into some problems. For example, if people believe that the Christian God created them, does he suddenly retroactively exist and create them? Would he not only have the powers they ascribe to him going forward in time, but also back in time? I don't know, but it seems more likely that the gods existed before people and that their power just waxed and waned based on how many people came to know of, and believed in, them.



my proposed explanation?
people believing it doesn't actually make it true, it creates entities who believe that it's true. uriel believes he was around billions of years ago, fighting wars when the universe was expanding gases, because he has to be eternal and his existence has to stretch back to the birth of the universe, as mandated by the faith of the people which animates him. but he wasn't actually around all that time. he popped into existence in ad 33 or whenever

and if you go back 2000 years? then you wouldn't meet uriel, you wouldn't meet gabriel, whoever. the top dog would be...whoever the top dog was back then. if there was a top dog. there might be several big dogs


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 19, 2015)

Maybe not, because of how time travel works in DF (as explained in the founding of demon reach)

Events can happen across different lengths of time, simultaneously


----------



## dream (Jul 20, 2015)

Nicodemus said:
			
		

> Michael only killed Siriothrax because he was fucking around with mortal practitioners, for some reason. The Knights are powerful, but there's only three of them and they have to be acting in the right circumstances.
> 
> It's not like every supernatural group is cowering in fear of the christian god, most of them go about their business completely unimpeded. The only people that have to consistently worry about them are the Denarians.



Yeah, they have to be acting in the right circumstances but when they do they are capable of overcoming beings on par with Mab.  Basically, a line is drawn in the sand.  If some supernatural being crosses it then Heaven is going to arrange a biblical smackdown on said being.  I imagine that more than quite a few beings are playing nice because of this.  Yes, those supernatural beings have plenty of freedom to act but there are some lines that can't be crossed because of Heaven or at least some beings think twice before doing so.



> That was behind the scenes stuff though, not a direct application of the white god's power.



An archangel was supplying power for the Knights and spoke through them during the attack.  It has been a while since I read it but I'm fairly sure that the archangel's power was used to break whatever mental hold/pressure was put on our heroes or at least some of them.  I also recall a barrier being erected that prevented the Red King from doing something.  Not entirely behind the scenes stuff in my opinion.  Pretty much every supernatural fraction should know that Heaven lent its assistance in the Red Court's demise.



			
				Banhammer said:
			
		

> It could be other players have comparable total power, but not the same limits and thus different outputs of work.
> 
> Like a cargo train vs an equivalent number of cargo trucks



Certainly plausible.  But who would it be?


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 20, 2015)

it's entirely possible that dragons are part of what is being refered to as "christanity" in this thread.

Especially since other things like Amorachius was once referred to as Excalibur are also taken into account


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 20, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> 2) Mankind shaped them to have been there since the beginning of creation, 2000 years ago


This is kinda what I used to think. When He Who Walks Behind was summoned in Blood Rites, Harry describes HWWB presence are bending space, forcing reality to rewrite itself to accept HWWB's existence. So I figured maybe thats what The White God has done. Once it became the top dog, it retroactively caused itself to have always been God. (Kinda like when Elaine and Michael became God in the Lucifer comic.)



Lucaniel said:


> my proposed explanation?
> people believing it doesn't actually make it true, it creates entities who believe that it's true. uriel believes he was around billions of years ago, fighting wars when the universe was expanding gases, because he has to be eternal and his existence has to stretch back to the birth of the universe, as mandated by the faith of the people which animates him. but he wasn't actually around all that time. he popped into existence in ad 33 or whenever



This is how I've been looking at it.

The thing that mucks things up is that while there are gods and beings that are borne from human belief, there are also beings that exist on their own(I imagine the Dragons are this). And there are beings who have blurred the lines between the two(Mab/Titania and the fey).

So its hard to say what is what without direct information. Its entirely possible that The White God is really the one true god.


----------



## Seraphiel (Jul 20, 2015)

We are gonna get a dragon in mirror mirror or one of the last case files will be a dragon dying and Earth feeling the effects, apparently they are pretty big.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jul 20, 2015)

Bergelmir said:


> This is how I've been looking at it.
> 
> The thing that mucks things up is that while there are gods and beings that are borne from human belief, there are also beings that exist on their own(I imagine the Dragons are this). And there are beings who have blurred the lines between the two(Mab/Titania and the fey).
> 
> So its hard to say what is what without direct information. *Its entirely possible that The White God is really the one true god.*


i think the way to reconcile that is that some entities are necessary to maintain the balance of the world (mab/titania, summer and winter), and others..aren't (almost every religious pantheon)

but well, re: the bolded...man, i hope not. would be a cop-out


----------



## Cromer (Jul 20, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> i think the way to reconcile that is that some entities are necessary to maintain the balance of the world (mab/titania, summer and winter), and others..aren't (almost every religious pantheon)
> 
> but well, re: the bolded...man, i hope not. would be a cop-out


_Something _is necessary to perform certain functions. No one said it had to be a specific being/set of beings. Remember, in a previous age, it wasn't Winter's job to protect the Outer Gates.

The DFverse runs on unspoken rule of Spidey: As a being gains power and authority, it also gains purpose and duty. The accrual and exertion of power places a commensurate burden of purpose on a being. Of course, outside that Purpose, they can probably do whatever. And shit is malleable. Hence Herne. Hence Mab.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 20, 2015)

It could be that all pantheons are just sub pantheons of God, and christianity just comes acrss as being the boss of everyone on account of being monotheistic


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 22, 2015)

curiously, a DF comics spin off just wrapped up this week, in which the villain uses Jewish magic


----------



## dream (Jul 23, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> It could be that all pantheons are just sub pantheons of God, and christianity just comes acrss as being the boss of everyone on account of being monotheistic



Oh god.  Pls no.


----------



## dream (Sep 22, 2015)

Plenty of awesome stuff in this AMA:

Link removed



> > So Dresden has been going from regular Wizard to semi-immortal over the course of the last few books- when you first started writing Dresden, did you ever imagine him to be this strong later on or was it just something that happened as you wrote the books?
> 
> 
> 
> ...






> > Hey Jim! Huge fan since I started reading Dresden a year ago. I was talking with a friend about the faerie courts, and since we live in Australia, we were both wondering what the explanation is for the seasons being reversed in the southern hemisphere. Does Titania take a vacation down south for Christmas? Or is there a seperate pair of courts for the south?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Zorp (Sep 22, 2015)

Thanks for the info!  I wouldn't have ever said said that Dresden is "semi-immortal," and I'm glad Jim dispelled that notion.  If anyone is on that path, it's Molly, though I suspect Dresden will find a way to free her of her role of Winter Lady (perhaps by using one of those handy unweavings from Mother Winter?)

Gosh, I can't wait to see when some of these quiet, heavy-hitters have their backs against the wall, as he says.  The best kept secrets are just that--secrets--so I'm looking forward to some truly out-of-the-blue powers that pack a wallop.

On a different note, I'm currently enjoying listening to the whole series on audio book.  James Marsters has such good delivery on the dull wit and sarcasm.  It's fun to pick up on little hints missed the first time around, too.  For example, in Death Masks, Molly and Dresden have their first conversation on the phone when Dresden is trying to see if Michael will be his second in the duel with Ortega.  Charity gets on the phone and says something that makes Molly comment, "I swear, it's like she's telepathic or something."  Later on, we find out that not only does Molly have psychic powers, but that she inherited her talent from her mother.  It's was a great little moment of foreshadowing.


----------



## dream (Sep 22, 2015)

Zorp said:
			
		

> If anyone is on that path, it's Molly



Molly IS an immortal as the Winter Lady.  Perhaps one of the weakest but she is one.



> Gosh, I can't wait to see when some of these quiet, heavy-hitters have their backs against the wall, as he says.



Can't wait to see Merlin/Gatekeeper go all out.


----------



## Kikyo (Sep 22, 2015)

Well that certainly whet my appetite for more Dresden. It's almost cruel.


----------



## Seraphiel (Sep 22, 2015)

Can't wait to see Drakul show up now that he retconed him into never being a scion + the hype of him being able to beat Mab.


----------



## Demetrius (Sep 22, 2015)

when is the next book coming out?

i plan to pick the series up fairly soon and finish it maybe in time for the release if it's not too soon


----------



## Seraphiel (Sep 22, 2015)

Trinity said:


> when is the next book coming out?
> 
> i plan to pick the series up fairly soon and finish it maybe in time for the release if it's not too soon



His deadline is January 1st, so summer.


----------



## dream (Sep 22, 2015)

Seraphiel said:


> Can't wait to see Drakul show up now that he retconed him into never being a scion + the hype of him being able to beat Mab.



Not sure how I feel about Butcher's retcons.  Some of the stuff is good while the others leave me going eh.  Drakul retcon is nice though.


----------



## Demetrius (Sep 22, 2015)

good man mittens

that gives me plenty of time even if i happen to get lazy with reading

excellent


----------



## Seraphiel (Sep 22, 2015)

np trin



Dream said:


> Not sure how I feel about Butcher's retcons.  Some of the stuff is good while the others leave me going eh.  Drakul retcon is nice though.



Well yeah this sounds better than demon scion rofl. It would have had to be some mega demon if he is strong enough to take on Mab.

as he is now there is a lot more hype for him.


btw offtopic are you getting Cinder Spires, if you are will you grace us with it like you did with Peace Talks?


----------



## dream (Sep 22, 2015)

Seraphiel said:
			
		

> btw offtopic are you getting Cinder Spires, if you are will you grace us with it like you did with Peace Talks?



If I can get it like Skin Games you guys/girls will have a gift from me. ^_^


----------



## Seraphiel (Sep 23, 2015)

Dream said:


> If I can get it like Skin Games you guys/girls will have a gift from me. ^_^



thank mr dream <3


----------



## dream (Sep 26, 2015)

> 11) Loki is not in Demonreach. There are no snakes dripping venom there, and Norse gods are literal. Several of the gods are pro wrestlers because you get much more worship as WWE than you do as a Greek god. This will be the subject of book 18, which I hope will be called Cut Man.



I wonder which one was Hulk Hogan.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 18, 2015)

Apparently, there's already a title for book 17

It's "Mirror, Mirror" and it's going to be all about mirror universes


----------



## Lucaniel (Oct 18, 2015)

you mean like alt universes? harry's gonna go into one and meet dark harry, lord of evil? murphy's gonna come with him and meet cool murphy?


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 18, 2015)

Yeah, something like that


Mirror Universes are created when a mortal makes a significant decision, and the two harry were exactly the same up to that decision, sometime in the series


One universe resulted in our harry

Another one, resulted in a Harry that summons Harries from other universes to get killed in his place

But since 616 Harry is pretty Hardcore, that won't go as smoothly as planned


----------



## dream (Oct 18, 2015)

Should be interesting to see a Harry who took a darker path.


----------



## Seraphiel (Oct 18, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> Apparently, there's already a title for book 17
> 
> It's "Mirror, Mirror" and it's going to be all about mirror universes



This has been known for like 4 years now  except we thought it would be 16 until last year


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 18, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> Yeah, something like that
> 
> 
> Mirror Universes are created when a mortal makes a significant decision, and the two harry were exactly the same up to that decision, sometime in the series
> ...



Oh damn. I knew alternate Harry was going to be harsher. But goddamn. Thats twisted.


----------



## Lucaniel (Oct 18, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> Yeah, something like that
> 
> 
> Mirror Universes are created when a mortal makes a significant decision, and the two harry were exactly the same up to that decision, sometime in the series
> ...



so it's sort of like jet li's the one
sorta


----------



## Seraphiel (Oct 18, 2015)

basically it's a universe that was created from harry making one different choice in one of the earlier books


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 18, 2015)

Haha, I'm curious as fuck

Tommy, Molly and Mortimer are probably a league of Evil, while Marcone, Lara and the Hexen Wolves have become circumstancial good guys


----------



## Cromer (Oct 18, 2015)

I think Murphy's gonna be dead in that universe.


----------



## Zorp (Oct 18, 2015)

I've been wondering if mirrors would come into play since it was a repeated detail in the first few books that Harry never kept mirrors around his house.  I wonder if this has anything to do with that huge Hellfire attack Harry saw when rescuing Molly in the ice place.  The details are foggy, but I remember that part being an unresolved question mark for me.  Maybe Bad Harry who embraced Lasciel was there?



Lucaniel said:


> you mean like alt universes? harry's gonna go into one and meet dark harry, lord of evil? *murphy's gonna come with him and meet cool murphy?*


----------



## Seraphiel (Oct 18, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> Haha, I'm curious as fuck
> 
> Tommy, Molly and Mortimer are probably a league of Evil, while Marcone, Lara and the Hexen Wolves have become circumstancial good guys



Marcone is already confirmed to be a good guy in that verse I think 



Zorp said:


> I've been wondering if mirrors would come into play since it was a repeated detail in the first few books that Harry never kept mirrors around his house.  I wonder if this has anything to do with that huge Hellfire attack Harry saw when rescuing Molly in the ice place.  The details are foggy, but I remember that part being an unresolved question mark for me.  Maybe Bad Harry who embraced Lasciel was there?



Don't think AUHarry was involved, we know that Thorned Namshiel(from her reaction) was involved in the attack and that apparently the attack failed because Mab kicked their ass(from Jim's post)


----------



## Detective (Oct 18, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> Yeah, something like that
> 
> 
> Mirror Universes are created when a mortal makes a significant decision, and the two harry were exactly the same up to that decision, sometime in the series
> ...



Why does this also sound like a storyline in Kirkman's Invincible!?


----------



## Detective (Oct 18, 2015)

Seraphiel said:


> basically it's a universe that was created from harry making one different choice in one of the earlier books



So this is what happens when Harry chooses to fuck Murphy, instead of GOATBOAT Molly?

I fucking knew nothing good could cum from that decision, other than Harry, the selfish prick


----------



## Seraphiel (Oct 18, 2015)

Detective said:


> So this is what happens when Harry chooses to fuck Murphy, instead of GOATBOAT Molly?
> 
> I fucking knew nothing good could cum from that decision, other than Harry, the selfish prick



preet pls calm down


----------



## Detective (Oct 19, 2015)

Seraphiel said:


> preet pls calm down



lolololol Someone got the reference


----------



## Zorp (Nov 3, 2015)

Random: who do you guys think Cowl and Kumori are?

I'm re..uhh..listening to Dead Beat and I thought it was interesting how Kumori resurrected Marcone's lackey.  The medic said that when she bent over the guy, ice suddenly formed, and somehow it was as if he was being prevented from dying.

It made me think of how Mab was able to preserve Harry after he got shot.  Mab has the power of Winter.  I feel like there is a possible connection between Kumori and the Winter court.

(Notice I'm restraining myself from suggesting the old "Kumori is future/alternate universe Molly" theory. )


----------



## Lucaniel (Nov 4, 2015)

cowl is martha liberty


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## Cromer (Nov 4, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> cowl is martha liberty


Finally! Someone else who agrees with me, lel.


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## Zorp (Nov 4, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> cowl is martha liberty



And Listens-to-Wind is Kumori?


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## Lucaniel (Nov 5, 2015)

...ancient mai is kumori


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## Seraphiel (Jan 7, 2016)

Welp, I don't see a Spring release anymore.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 7, 2016)

Seraphiel said:


> Welp, I don't see a Spring release anymore.



sigh

smh


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## Seraphiel (Jan 7, 2016)

January is the second deadline he missed for Peace Talks, GRRM making Jim brave.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 7, 2016)

Man is getting more stretched.


----------



## Detective (Jan 7, 2016)

Damn it


----------



## Bergelmir (Jan 7, 2016)

Shiiiiit. 


Thank goodness Sanderson is filling in the gap with another Mistborn book.


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## Detective (Jan 7, 2016)

Bergelmir said:


> Shiiiiit.
> 
> 
> Thank goodness Sanderson is filling in the gap with another Mistborn book.



Wait, that's still coming this year? I thought it was delayed until 2017?


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## Bergelmir (Jan 7, 2016)

Bands of Mourning releases in 3 weeks. The final Wax and Wayne book is next year.


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## dream (Jan 8, 2016)

Seraphiel said:


> Welp, I don't see a Spring release anymore.



Oh well.  Hopefully, the longer he works on it the better it will be.


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## Seraphiel (Jan 8, 2016)

God fucking knows when Mirror Mirror will come out since he is going to written Cinder Spires 2 after PT. 


Bergelmir said:


> Shiiiiit.
> 
> 
> Thank goodness Sanderson is filling in the gap with another Mistborn book.



I just started Mistborn yesterday


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## Cromer (Jan 8, 2016)

Seraphiel said:


> God fucking knows when Mirror Mirror will come out since he is going to written Cinder Spires 2 after PT.
> 
> 
> I just started Mistborn yesterday


Enjoy yourself!


----------



## KidTony (Jan 8, 2016)

read-reading the series again for a bit of light reading. Forgot how much i liked the earlier books. Skin Games was pretty awesome though, can't wait for peace talks.


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## Seraphiel (Mar 31, 2016)

So like 4 months passed from the second deadline. Rip.


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## Bergelmir (Mar 31, 2016)

Eh, we knew it wasn't coming anytime soon, though. There was that update back in January that Butcher was still writing the book.

I've been assuming a winter release for Peace Talks.


----------



## dream (Apr 1, 2016)

Yeah, a winter release seems likely and I don't really mind the longer wait provided that he doesn't pull a GRRM.


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## Zorp (Apr 1, 2016)

Bergelmir said:


> Eh, we knew it wasn't coming anytime soon, though. There was that update back in January that Butcher was still writing the book.
> 
> I've been assuming a *winter release* for Peace Talks.



I see what you did there. 



By the way, do you guys listen to the audio books?  James Marsters does a fantastic job and he has mad respect for Butcher from the interview snippets I've seen.  Somehow listening to Ghost Story was a lot more enjoyable than reading it.

Random: who do you think was the fallen angel who whispered in Harry's ear, taking away his free will, when his back was broken?  Were they working alongside Nicodemus, or does the Father of Lies have a vested interest in stopping Harry?


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## dream (Apr 1, 2016)

> Random: who do you think was the fallen angel who whispered in Harry's ear, taking away his free will, when his back was broken?



My money is on Lasciel.


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## Bergelmir (Apr 1, 2016)

Butcher has said(somewhere, I dunno) that the fallen angel who whispered in Harry's ear wasn't a Denarian.

So the pool of suspects is pretty wide. Could just be a lackey of Nemesis.


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## dream (Apr 2, 2016)

Ugh, if that is the case then there is little point in guessing.  God knows how many fallen angels there are.


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## Random Stranger (Apr 11, 2016)

So I just found out that there is a newish post-Cold Days Dresden short story called "Jury Duty".  It's been out since December so the more attentive members here have most likely already heard of it and/or read it.

But if you're like me and this is the first you have heard of it, holla at ya boy and I will hook ya up.


----------



## jkingler (Apr 11, 2016)

/holla

Had no idea.


----------



## Random Stranger (Apr 11, 2016)

Check your PM.


----------



## jkingler (Apr 11, 2016)

Obrigado.


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## Kikyo (Apr 11, 2016)

Random Stranger said:


> So I just found out that there is a newish post-Cold Days Dresden short story called "Jury Duty".  It's been out since December so the more attentive members here have most likely already heard of it and/or read it.
> 
> But if you're like me and this is the first you have heard of it, holla at ya boy and I will hook ya up.



eh what? I'm so out of the loop. Help me please.


----------



## Banhammer (Apr 11, 2016)

>I didn't get a copy

thanks m8


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## Seraphiel (Apr 11, 2016)

I read it when it came out, it's pretty meh.


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## Cromer (Apr 12, 2016)

The anthology it came out in was pretty dope, mind

(If you want it let me know)

As for now I'll just pacify my literary thirst with the Alex Verus books. (Is Book 7 out yet?)


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## Banhammer (Apr 12, 2016)

yup. Came out three days ago suposedly


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## Banhammer (Apr 13, 2016)

hit up your old man, if you find a copy of the audiobook


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## Detective (Apr 13, 2016)

Cromer said:


> The anthology it came out in was pretty dope, mind
> 
> (If you want it let me know)
> 
> As for now I'll just pacify my literary thirst with the Alex Verus books. (Is Book 7 out yet?)





Banhammer said:


> yup. Came out three days ago suposedly



I sent you both a completely irrelevant yet note worthy public service article on the prevention of forest fires. They even had a soundtrack to listen to the article with.


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## Platinum (Apr 14, 2016)

Detective said:


> I sent you both a completely irrelevant yet note worthy public service article on the prevention of forest fires. They even had a soundtrack to listen to the article with.



nudge nudge


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## Detective (Apr 14, 2016)

Platinum said:


> nudge nudge



Remember Plat


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## jkingler (Apr 14, 2016)

I, too, would appreciate the soundtrack. For commuting.


----------



## Detective (Apr 14, 2016)

jkingler said:


> I, too, would appreciate the soundtrack. For commuting.


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## Kikyo (Apr 14, 2016)

How lovely. I could certainly use a refresher article on forest fire prevention.


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## Zorp (Apr 14, 2016)

True, Keeks.  I think we all could do with brushing up on the topic.  It's been so long, after all.


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## Detective (Apr 15, 2016)

Kikyo said:


> How lovely. I could certainly use a refresher article on forest fire prevention.





Zorp said:


> True, Keeks.  I think we all could do with brushing up on the topic.  It's been so long, after all.


----------



## Mercy (May 15, 2016)

I'm reading Skin Game.   Really enjoyed the other books, and I hope he actually gets around to writing more books.


----------



## Kikyo (May 16, 2016)

Rebecca Hamilton's website is doing a giveaway for Shadowed Souls.


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## dream (May 29, 2016)

So...anyone else read the first chapter of Peace Talks?


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## Seraphiel (May 29, 2016)

Dream said:


> So...anyone else read the first chapter of Peace Talks?


You have it? If so I'll gladly read it.


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## Bergelmir (May 30, 2016)

Didn't back the kickstarter, so nope. Haven't read it. Haven't seen a leak of it yet, either.


----------



## Mercy (May 30, 2016)

I just looked at his site, and didn't see anything about a first chapter for Peace Talks. =/


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## Kikyo (May 31, 2016)

You had to donate to the Kickstarter for the Dresden Files game. A friend of mine read it. He's totally pumped for the whole book now. He said so many things will happen. I'm making puppy dog eyes his way, but he's not budging on sharing yet.


----------



## Mercy (May 31, 2016)

Oh, guess I'll just have to wait for the book.


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## Seraphiel (Jun 1, 2016)

Preet if you got the chap, share my man.


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## Banhammer (Jun 8, 2016)

I read it. Here's the summary


*Spoiler*: __ 





It's been either a couple of months, or a year and a couple of months since skin game
Harry and Thomas are jogging along the beach (lake beach)
Justine is pregnant
Thomas is bugging out over it
Harry tames that pussy down
Carlos arrives amidst their conversation
McCoy has sent him to warn him the Fomor want to settle down their conflicts with the unseelies
So peace talks are coming to chicago
Marcone offered his town as hospitality
Apparently when Nicodemus tried to pull that shit in Skin Game, Marcone maneuvered so he nabbed all of Nico's shit, and his power grew 
The council picked Harry to laison between them and winter, and help out Carlos with secuirty
chapter ends with 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 Harry looking out into the beach and noticing by the light of dawn giant footprints across the sand

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Mercy (Jun 8, 2016)

Banhammer said:


> I read it. Here's the summary
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Thanks for posting this.   Now I'm really looking forward to reading Peace Talks.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 9, 2016)

Banhammer said:


> I read it. Here's the summary
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



Harry as the liaison should be hilarious. He's just going to end up setting fire to everything. 

...which is probably what the Council wants.


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## Detective (Jun 9, 2016)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Kill it with fire.... at maximum warp


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 9, 2016)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



 According to Carlos, that's not a bug, that's a featur


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## Seraphiel (Sep 8, 2016)

Still not anywhere close to done, lots of issues with the new house he is having built and the death of his dog gave him a writer's block.


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## Zorp (Sep 8, 2016)

Let's hope his dog's death doesn't foreshadow a heart-wrenching scene with Mouse later on.

Poor Jim.


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## dream (Sep 9, 2016)

Who else isn't too pleased by how Marcone is growing in power amongst the Supernatural community?  I much rather liked him in the beginning when he was just a human mob boss who knew about the supernatural side and not some dude becoming a force of power in the supernatural world.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 9, 2016)

Dream said:


> Who else isn't too pleased by how Marcone is growing in power amongst the Supernatural community?  I much rather liked him in the beginning when he was just a human mob boss who knew about the supernatural side and not some dude becoming a force of power in the supernatural world.



He still isn't. It's more guile than anything else, and 90% of his magic muscle comes from hiring Donald's consulting firm. That's the real superpower right there.

He's just getting really good at being a go between, to the point where his diplomatic power might as well be a power of its own


----------



## dream (Sep 9, 2016)

I'm aware.  He isn't a magically powerful person but he is working his way up the ranks by using/influence/etc and I'm not sure I like that.  Just felt that it went a bit too far when he became a freeholding lord and his involvement with the supernatural world kept growing.


----------



## Mercy (Sep 11, 2016)

I agree as well.  Didn't think he was that important to land the title of freeholding lord.   But who do you think would have been a better choice?


----------



## Zorp (Sep 11, 2016)

I get where you're coming from, Dream.  It came as a surprise to me when Marcone becamea freeholding lord.  Being the first vanilla human to do so, that's a pretty big deal.  Yet, there wasn't much build-up to his status jump and we really haven't seen too many benefits he's gotten since joining.  I think he has retained his mob mastermind role...he's simply expanding his territory.  Maybe it was a case of moving up, or getting left behind.  More and more, the stakes are being raised.  The books stopped being about Harry your neighborhood PI wizard and more about Harry the White Council Warden saving the world from supernatural heavyweights.  If Marcone hadn't found a way to "keep up" with the shifting focus on the stories, he might have turned into that once-big-deal mobster who, by the end, looks like a weak, first-arc baddie.  

Keeping up with the Jones's applies to Karin, too, I think.  Nicodemus broke her in the last book.  She hasn't been a ton of help lately and she knows it.  She lost the police force, she doesn't have what it takes to be a full-time Knight of the Cross...without getting some supernatural power-up, I wonder how she can hope to fight at Harry's side.  Part of me hopes that she doesn't go in that direction because it was always cool how a regular human like her could do some damage with preparation, guts, and knowledge.  Yet, if Marcone is dipping his toe into uncharted territory, she might have to as well to stay relevant.

Reactions: Like 1


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## dream (Nov 2, 2016)

Zorp, Murphy is going to die and with it kill any hopes of Harry x Murphy being a thing for any significant period of time. 


*Spoiler*: _Blessed Molly Spoilers For New Short_ 




So, in the new short story we learn that Molly can't have sex with a man.  Any time she tries it leads to the mantle attacking the person.  Poor Carlos, dude thought that he was going to get laid only to get an epic beatdown.  That's what he gets for trying to fuck Molly. 

Clearly, only Harry is the one that will be with her.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 2, 2016)

Dream said:


> Zorp, Murphy is going to die and with it kill any hopes of Harry x Murphy being a thing for any significant period of time.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Blessed Molly Spoilers For New Short_
> ...


Bloody hell. Wonder if thats the mantle or if its Molly's subconscious.


----------



## dream (Nov 2, 2016)

Bergelmir said:


> Bloody hell. Wonder if thats the mantle or if its Molly's subconscious.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Mab says that it is a self-defense from the Mantle.  Supposedly, having sex with a man could potentially damage the Mantle.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 2, 2016)

Dream said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Mab says that it is a self-defense from the Mantle.  Supposedly, having sex with a man could potentially damage the Mantle.


Holy shit. 

Gotta love how Butcher tortures his characters.


----------



## Zorp (Nov 3, 2016)

Wth, Dream. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Molly is the most chaste un-chaste girl I know.  Girl couldn't even get laid if she wanted to now.  Interesting that the mantle employs that defense mechanism, considering that winter is all about base desires.  Does that mean Maeve was bluffing when she offered to sleep with Harry when they first met?  And how did Mab end up having changeling daughters?

Reactions: Useful 1


----------



## Lucaniel (Nov 3, 2016)

Dream said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Mab says that it is a self-defense from the Mantle.  Supposedly, having sex with a man could potentially damage the Mantle.


while i can understand enjoying this dumb retcon because it torpedoes molly x ramirez...it also torpedoes harry x molly, because harry is a man and is thus verboten by the mantle
so it's really a wash for your shipping interests, preet

and more to the point, it's a dumb retcon. unless we all want to pretend that maeve being portrayed as the biggest nympho in the world was genius foreshadowing or something

god knows why he wanted to include it. to keep molly pure so he can infinitely delay harry x molly? lmao
man i wish jim would keep some scrap of dignity in his mythos instead of introducing all this laughable shit like lightsabers and permavirginity mantles 


Dream said:


> Who else isn't too pleased by how Marcone is growing in power amongst the Supernatural community?  I much rather liked him in the beginning when he was just a human mob boss who knew about the supernatural side and not some dude becoming a force of power in the supernatural world.


it's inevitable because street crime is irrelevant at this point. so if marcone wants to stay relevant he has to move into the supernatural world. his rise is also thematically significant because it ties into the idea that it's about how smart and organised you are, not just how powerful are. DF has been about the surprising amount of power little guys can bring to muster if they have the right leverage since day 1

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Catalyst75 (Nov 3, 2016)

Lucaniel said:


> and more to the point, it's a dumb retcon. unless we all want to pretend that maeve being portrayed as the biggest nympho in the world was genius foreshadowing or something


Think about the state the last Winter Knight was in and his relationship with Maeve.  Maeve would be sadist enough to force herself on the Winter Knight and let the Mantle defense do the rest.


----------



## dream (Nov 3, 2016)

Bergelmir said:


> Holy shit.
> 
> Gotta love how Butcher tortures his characters.



Butcher needs to be nicer to best girl.  



Zorp said:


> Wth, Dream.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Mab might have had Maeve and Sarissa after she became Queen.  The Queen mantle can be different in regards to sex.  The Queen Who Is should be the "mother" figure in the trinity while the Lady is the "maiden".






Lucaniel said:


> while i can understand enjoying this dumb retcon because it torpedoes molly x ramirez...it also torpedoes harry x molly, because harry is a man and is thus verboten by the mantle
> so it's really a wash for your shipping interests, preet
> 
> and more to the point, it's a dumb retcon. unless we all want to pretend that maeve being portrayed as the biggest nympho in the world was genius foreshadowing or something
> ...



No way.  Harry will clearly find a way to remove his mantle and then remove Molly's mantle.  That or Molly will ascend to Queen who is and thus still make Harry x Molly happen. 

But yes, this "retcon" is pretty dumb.  Not really liking what Butcher is doing to the Fae these past few books to be honest.  Heck, that goes for the whole supernatural community that he is touching.  The less said about the Denarians the better. : (


----------



## Lucaniel (Nov 3, 2016)

this is less of a perversion than butters the jedi knight of the cross and his copyright violating lightsaber

but it still injects a sort of stupidity into the mythos, which bothers me


----------



## Zorp (Nov 5, 2016)

Dream said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Mab might have had Maeve and Sarissa after she became Queen.  The Queen mantle can be different in regards to sex.  The Queen Who Is should be the "mother" figure in the trinity while the Lady is the "maiden".




*Spoiler*: __ 



Ahh, you could be onto something with the trinity analogy.  My brain did not computer "maiden" when juxtaposed with "Winter Lady," but it makes sense in its own categorical way.  Mab could have had her girls when she was Lady, sure.  I'd like to know more about her past and when she started fighting Outsiders exactly.




Speaking of the Lady, Queen, Mother/maiden, mother, crone overlap, what other overlaps do you think exist?  Mother Winter confirmed that they have multiple names depending on the mythology.  The three fates, to be sure.  Any others?

Do you think we'll ever see the White God, or just his archangels?


----------



## Lucaniel (Nov 6, 2016)

we've already seen the white god

his name is donald trump


----------



## Detective (Nov 6, 2016)

@Dream @Bergelmir @Lucaniel 

I just still find it hilarious that after all Carlos' talk about past exploits with hot women, Lara Raith confirmed him to be a virgin back in White Night. And then this curbstomp happens.

This is what occurs when the pussy is put on too high a pedestal.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 23, 2016)

send me that short story, pleasE?


----------



## Seraphiel (Dec 6, 2016)

@Lucaniel REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


story is out btw, will read tomorrow don't wanna read butters trash before bed


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 7, 2016)

Seraphiel said:


> @Lucaniel REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
> 
> 
> story is out btw, will read tomorrow don't wanna read butters trash before bed


ugh
tomorrow then is today now 
the horror


----------



## Seraphiel (Dec 7, 2016)

Lucaniel said:


> ugh
> tomorrow then is today now
> the horror


He had a destiny to rape is with his presence in Cold Days and SG.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 7, 2016)

fucking kill me


----------



## Seraphiel (Dec 7, 2016)

Lucaniel said:


> fucking kill me


Ya I started it yesterday before bed and just closed it in disgust.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 7, 2016)

wow, thanks, jim, it wasn't enough to create something as fundamentally stupid as butters the jedi knight of the cross, you then decided to give him an equally stupid enemy to fight. a _stuffed toy_ which came to life due to the _belief of children_ 

garbage 

ah, and he fights it by creating an impromptu knight cloak out of a bedsheet and a first aid sticker, and blasting polka in his ears

jim _intentionally _made this as stupid as possible


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 10, 2016)

Lucaniel said:


> fucking kill me


Eeeeh. Going to skip that short. Maybe read a summary.

Man, its a shame how much I don't like current Butters. Dude was awesome pretty much until Ghost Story.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 10, 2016)

Bergelmir said:


> Eeeeh. Going to skip that short. Maybe read a summary.
> 
> Man, its a shame how much I don't like current Butters. Dude was awesome pretty much until Ghost Story.


i didn't start disliking butters until cold days which got ramped up to max levels in skin game. what got me was the way he kept talking shit about harry and being a ungrateful little bitch 

what happened in ghost story to turn you against him


----------



## Seraphiel (Dec 10, 2016)

Bergelmir said:


> Eeeeh. Going to skip that short. Maybe read a summary.
> 
> Man, its a shame how much I don't like current Butters. Dude was awesome pretty much until Ghost Story.


Butters saves a junkie because he gets a quest from god in form of a World of Warcraft questmark floting above the guys head, goes to see him at the hospital. A Baku Baku that is pretending to be a female doctor. is slowly eating patients, he confronts it and it threatens the junkie, asks for his glasses, leaves to pacify people who came to see what the issue was. He calls Harry, Harry explains to him that he can win. He wins. 

That's basically it.


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 10, 2016)

Lucaniel said:


> i didn't start disliking butters until cold days which got ramped up to max levels in skin game. what got me was the way he kept talking shit about harry and being a ungrateful little bitch
> 
> what happened in ghost story to turn you against him


Oh, I meant Ghost Story was the last I liked him. Good until GS, unlikeable after that. And yeah, same problem I had with him.



Seraphiel said:


> Butters saves a junkie because he gets a quest from god in form of a World of Warcraft questmark floting above the guys head, goes to see him at the hospital. A Baku Baku that is pretending to be a female doctor. is slowly eating patients, he confronts it and it threatens the junkie, asks for his glasses, leaves to pacify people who came to see what the issue was. He calls Harry, Harry explains to him that he can win. He wins.
> 
> That's basically it.


That takes care of that. Thanks, Seraphiel.


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## Banhammer (Dec 14, 2016)

does anyone have a copy?


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## Banhammer (May 27, 2018)

I still believe that one day, the Avatar will return

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Cromer (Jun 5, 2018)

Well, Brief Cases is out today!


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## Catalyst75 (Jun 6, 2018)

Cromer said:


> Well, Brief Cases is out today!



Still nothing yet on the status of _Peace Talks?  _I know Jim's writing it, but it's been four years since _Skin Games, _now.


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## Cromer (Jun 6, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Still nothing yet on the status of _Peace Talks?  _I know Jim's writing it, but it's been four years since _Skin Games, _now.



From all indications, the factors that were militating against him writing _ Peace Talks_ (divorce, remarriage, moving house, death of dog, starting and worldbuilding an entirely different series...) have been hurdled over, and Peace Talks may well drop towards the end of the year or beginning of next year.


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## Cromer (Jun 6, 2018)

On an unrelated note, I have a rough draft of my undergraduate thesis, on generating data visualizations of leather bag production, in case someone wants to help me look through it


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## Lucaniel (Jun 8, 2018)

zoo day verdict:

i just wanted something in the vein of harry meeting and hanging out with maggie in _skin game_ but spread over short-story length, maybe them getting to know each other, maybe him resolving some kind of problem for her or helping her overcome a problem like he did with that softball-playing girl kelly in the side story with michael. something emotional and consistently touching

instead i got a bunch of bullshit about creeps and shadow dogs, just bringing up more plot points he can barely resolve or develop, an unsatisfying narrative, and butcher totally failing to convincingly write the POV of a child. he really shoehorned in his hatred of people who talk about politics (rather than talking about funko pop collections or whatever he's into not just into maggie's POV - which is absurd enough cuz what 10 year old child notices or cares - but also into the POV of _mouse_, who is a dog

smh


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## Banhammer (Jun 15, 2018)

im a little more forgiving than you, because i hope short stories are a good exercise to get the rust out before peace talks get down

Reactions: Like 2


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## Seraphiel (Aug 3, 2018)

Let's see if he manages to make his September deadline. 2 months to go.


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## Magic (Aug 20, 2018)

I just finished book 1, very easy reading. I had fun. Kind of wanted more for the final confrontation but it was still oddly satisfying. Morgan coming to the rescue I did not see coming. 

Guess I have to order the 2nd book, probably the third too. I finished this book in 4 sittings lol...


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## Seraphiel (Aug 20, 2018)

RemChu said:


> I just finished book 1, very easy reading. I had fun. Kind of wanted more for the final confrontation but it was still oddly satisfying. Morgan coming to the rescue I did not see coming.
> 
> Guess I have to order the 2nd book, probably the third too. I finished this book in 4 sittings lol...


I just finished fool moon reread in 2 OuO

Just remember it gets going after 3.


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## Magic (Aug 20, 2018)

So Is Full moon about werewolves or is it about increasing the potency of certain spells depending on moon phases?

No heavy spoilers just yes or no to that question


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## Seraphiel (Aug 20, 2018)

yes about like 4 different types


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## Magic (Aug 20, 2018)

Hahaha

welll book should come on the 22nd the latest.

Ordered it on amazon last night/ this morning.


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## Seraphiel (Aug 21, 2018)

RemChu said:


> Hahaha
> 
> welll book should come on the 22nd the latest.
> 
> Ordered it on amazon last night/ this morning.



I stole all of them digitall then bought them.


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## Magic (Aug 21, 2018)

Seraphiel said:


> I stole all of them digitall then bought them.


They are like 7 bucks American paper back

so stealing them for me is lul.

I hate reading books on the computer too...
=[

so ya


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## Detective (Aug 22, 2018)




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## Magic (Aug 23, 2018)

Big Buxom Witches


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## Magic (Aug 31, 2018)

I actually like Full Moon and werewolves are one of my favorite uh fictional monsters. The story for some reason feels familiar. The awkward teen group dynamic of the wolf pack.

Not sure why.


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## Cromer (Sep 1, 2018)

Queef Master said:


> I actually like Full Moon and werewolves are one of my favorite uh fictional monsters. The story for some reason feels familiar. The awkward teen group dynamic of the wolf pack.
> 
> Not sure why.


Probably something very primal about the werewolf concept that speaks to your soul.


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## Seraphiel (Sep 1, 2018)

Werewolves are cool in general.

Btw Jim is getting married at the end of the month and his plan was to finish Peace Talks by then. Let's see if he can do it, if not rip winter release.


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## Banhammer (Sep 1, 2018)

so that's a RIP winter release


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## Seraphiel (Sep 1, 2018)

Also plans after peace talks are, second Cinder spiers, YA Maggie book with his sister that he says he can finish in 2 weeks and then  Mirror Mirror.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 1, 2018)

Seraphiel said:


> YA Maggie book with his sister that he says he can finish in 2 weeks


inb4 it takes a year


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## Seraphiel (Sep 1, 2018)

Lucaniel said:


> inb4 it takes a year


Yeah I'd really like to see what happens.


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## Detective (Sep 5, 2018)

At this point, it feels like the Stormlight Archive books will finish before the Dresden ones.


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## Bergelmir (Oct 8, 2018)

Silver Eagle Scans (doing the GunBuster Next Generation manga)








Hopefully it won't be worse than the Sci-Fi show?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Banhammer (Oct 9, 2018)

man, if only there was a book series development going on

shit gets optioned all the time tho. Doesn't mean much
If work gets started now, we might be getting a pilot 5 years from now, at least


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## Bergelmir (Oct 9, 2018)

I remember reading an update that last... November? that things had settled down for Jim and he'd gotten back to writing Peace Talks.

I'm hoping we'll get a release announcement early next year.


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## Banhammer (Dec 29, 2018)

There was Christmas chapter released this year. 
Mind you  lots of spoilers


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## Detective (Dec 29, 2018)

Banhammer said:


> There was Christmas chapter released this year.
> Mind you  lots of spoilers

Reactions: Like 1


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## Banhammer (Dec 29, 2018)

Damn you Mab


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## Mercy (Dec 29, 2018)

I  want  the  next  book already.


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## Detective (Dec 29, 2018)

Banhammer said:


> Damn you Mab



LET IT GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, BH

Fucking Mab, though, indeed

She went there


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## Detective (Dec 29, 2018)

Peace Talks sounds like it was a blood bath, though


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## Detective (Mar 10, 2019)

It's been 845 years....

/End Titanic Old Lady Detective


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## Zorp (Mar 14, 2019)

I'm legitimately starting to worry that this series won't finish.  Not if it takes almost 5 years for each subsequent book to release like it has during this wait for Peace Talks.  I guess all we can do is hope that Butcher will get back on a regular writing schedule for future installments.  I know a lot happened in his life during this interim, but getting back to a regular release schedule--finding that productive normalcy--would probably do him some good.


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## Mercy (Mar 14, 2019)

On his website under Upcoming Works, it says "_As of March 12th, 2019, the current draft of the novel is up to chapter 49. Progress!"

_


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## Zorp (Mar 17, 2019)

Thanks for the update, Mercy.  I checked out the website.  Among other issues, it seems like not having a private writing space for a long time didn't do his writing process any favors, as Jim's contractor blew the date on finishing his new house by a couple years.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mercy (Mar 18, 2019)

You're welcome Zorp.    Yeah that kind of thing is hard on anyone, and I'm glad things are going well for him now.   Hope they keep going in the right direction for him.


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## Mercy (Apr 12, 2019)

_"As of April 8th, 2019, the current draft of the novel is up to chapter 57. Progress!  We don’t have a release date yet, but we’ll update this page, send out a newsletter, and tweet it to the high heavens the moment we do!"_


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## Zhen Chan (Apr 13, 2019)

Peace talks is never coming out


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## Mercy (May 26, 2019)

_As of May 22nd, 2019, the current draft of the novel is up to chapter 61. _

Reactions: Like 3


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## Bergelmir (May 26, 2019)

Man, I forgot Dresden Files was even a thing. I need to do a reread sometime.

Nice to see Peace Talks is going to be a long ass book. I think 61 chapters is already more than any of the previous books.


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## Detective (May 28, 2019)

Bergelmir said:


> Man, I forgot Dresden Files was even a thing. I need to do a reread sometime.
> 
> Nice to see Peace Talks is going to be a long ass book. I think 61 chapters is already more than any of the previous books.



Maybe we will get another chance to discuss further developments in the totally unrelated and latest edition in random articles on the elusive polka dotted mongoose, then?


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## Bergelmir (May 28, 2019)

Detective said:


> Maybe we will get another chance to discuss further developments in the totally unrelated and latest edition in random articles on the elusive polka dotted mongoose, then?


Absolutely, my inquisitive friend.


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## Banhammer (May 28, 2019)

Man... This sure is an Alert of Doom for me. 

Although, i do have an excuse to re-read the whole series now..

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mercy (May 31, 2019)

I'll look every week for updates.

_As of May 29th, 2019, the current draft of the novel is up to chapter 62._

Reactions: Like 1


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## Platinum (Jun 5, 2019)

Chapter 63 now .

Reactions: Like 2


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## Bergelmir (Jun 5, 2019)

I wonder how long this is going to be. I'm fully expecting a 100+ chapter Dresden book by the end.


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## Detective (Jun 6, 2019)

Bergelmir said:


> I wonder how long this is going to be. I'm fully expecting a 100+ chapter Dresden book by the end.



We deserve this.


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## Bergelmir (Jun 7, 2019)

Detective said:


> We deserve this.


At the very least, the apocalypse trilogy at the end better be massive Lord of the Rings level of massive.


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## Detective (Jun 7, 2019)

Bergelmir said:


> At the very least, the apocalypse trilogy at the end better be massive Lord of the Rings level of massive.



Stop reading my mind, Charles!


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## Demetrius (Jun 8, 2019)

betting i can take my sweet time aka 5 years to catch up before peace talks comes out 

atleast he's faster than grrm? (allegedly)


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## Kingslayer (Jun 8, 2019)

Interesting i ll add in my recommend list.


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## Bergelmir (Jun 8, 2019)

Demetrius said:


> betting i can take my sweet time aka 5 years to catch up before peace talks comes out
> 
> atleast he's faster than grrm? (allegedly)


Butcher used to be super regular. A book a year (for the most part). But after Skin Games he had a bunch of real life shit happen to him, which has delayed Peace Talks a lot. I figure we'll get books every year or two years if he's back on his game again.


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## Mercy (Jun 13, 2019)

_June 13th, 2019, the current draft of the novel is up to chapter 64._


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2019)

He finished

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mercy (Jun 17, 2019)

Now just  to  wait  for  the  release  date


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## Detective (Jun 18, 2019)

INJECT THIS INTO MY VEINS


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## Banhammer (Jun 18, 2019)

well, theres editing to be done


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## Bergelmir (Jun 18, 2019)

Banhammer said:


> well, theres editing to be done


No no no. No logic and reason.

INJECT. THAT. SHIT. INTO. MY. VEINS.


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## Banhammer (Jul 22, 2019)

START SPREADING THE NEWS 
HES LEAVING TODAY
DO YOU WANT TO BE A PART OF IT
THE FILES, THE FILES
BUTCHER HAS JUST WROTE THE END OF PEACE TALKS


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## Detective (Jul 22, 2019)

Banhammer said:


> START SPREADING THE NEWS
> HES LEAVING TODAY
> DO YOU WANT TO BE A PART OF IT
> THE FILES, THE FILES
> BUTCHER HAS JUST WROTE THE END OF PEACE TALKS



It's been 84 years...

/End Old Man Detective


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## Mercy (Jul 22, 2019)

Now give us a release date.


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## Zhen Chan (Jul 29, 2019)

Ill believe it when its in my hands


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## Cromer (Jul 30, 2019)

Zhen Chan said:


> Ill believe it when its in my hands



Precisely.


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## Gerjaffers786 (Aug 18, 2019)

Yes they are worth the read


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## Bluebeard (Oct 3, 2019)

I read Brief Cases after a long break from the series because of the hiatus. It's crazy because I used to be addicted to this series but I honestly just forgot about it because he hasn't released a book in so long. Reading it was a good refresher and reintroduction into the Dresden universe. Ranking the 12 short stories:

1. Bigfoot on Campus
2. Jury Duty
3. Even Hand
4. B is for Bigfoot
5. Bombshells
6. Cold Case
7. Day One
8. Curses
9. I Was A Teenage Bigfoot
10. AAAA Wizardry 
11. Zoo Day
12. A Fistful of Warlocks


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## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2019)

I still haven't read fistful of warlocks


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## Mercy (Oct 3, 2019)

I need to give those a try.


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## Lucaniel (Oct 16, 2019)

Bluebeard said:


> I read Brief Cases after a long break from the series because of the hiatus. It's crazy because I used to be addicted to this series but I honestly just forgot about it because he hasn't released a book in so long. Reading it was a good refresher and reintroduction into the Dresden universe. Ranking the 12 short stories:
> 
> 1. Bigfoot on Campus
> 2. Jury Duty
> ...


are you not counting aftermath as a short story


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## Bergelmir (Oct 16, 2019)

Lucaniel said:


> are you not counting aftermath as a short story


Aftermath was in the Side Jobs collection, not Brief Cases.


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## Lucaniel (Oct 20, 2019)

Bergelmir said:


> Aftermath was in the Side Jobs collection, not Brief Cases.


oh yeah alright


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## Banhammer (Oct 20, 2019)

There's a new short story, with Mr Gray apparently.


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## Bergelmir (Dec 16, 2019)

Time for a reread to brush up.


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## Mercy (Dec 16, 2019)

Glad we finally have a release date


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## Bergelmir (Dec 16, 2019)

Hell yeah. Its been a long five years. Six by the time this finally releases.


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## Mercy (Dec 16, 2019)

True, but I bet it's going to be worth it.


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## Bergelmir (Dec 16, 2019)

It always is.


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## Trueno (Dec 17, 2019)

Listened to some of a spliced Audiobook that did a great job with the first few pages.

Kind of felt dragged out with the first few pages, but it was really fun so I ended up buying the first book on Kindle. No regrets


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## Bergelmir (Dec 17, 2019)

yuLeopard said:


> Listened to some of a spliced Audiobook that did a great job with the first few pages.
> 
> Kind of felt dragged out with the first few pages, but it was really fun so I ended up buying the first book on Kindle. No regrets


And thats easily the worst one. Butcher gets better and better with each book. Just wait 'till you get to book 7.


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## Banhammer (Dec 17, 2019)

>Six years
For fuck sakes Jim, that was a bit much


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## Bergelmir (Dec 17, 2019)

Banhammer said:


> >Six years
> For fuck sakes Jim, that was a bit much


Ah, cut him some slack. He went through some shit and had to get his life sorted. I give him a pass.


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## Trueno (Dec 17, 2019)

Bergelmir said:


> Ah, cut him some slack. He went through some shit and had to get his life sorted. I give him a pass.


Yeah, it could be worse. I prefer a done novel, to a rushed one.


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## Banhammer (Dec 17, 2019)

Timing isn't binary. There isn't only a "it's either rushed/good" option.
His work is occupying space in my memory rent free gdi, which could be going to other things.
I want it to be him but a little cooperation please.
If he was upfront and said "oh it'll take more time than it takes for you to get 4 master degrees in between each (not that big of a) novel" I'd probably go "that's alright then, do your thing and maybe I'll come back to it when I'm 68 rather than 14 years old.

And you can't stop that momentum and pick it back up and possibly think it'll be just as good. 

Like, for perspective, Dresden is now about as confused about flip phone technology as the modern individual who would have been his target audience starting up.


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## Banhammer (Dec 17, 2019)

I mean shit might turn out amazing, but since I'm OLD NOW waiting for his shit, I have a divine right to be grumpy about it.


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## Zhen Chan (Dec 18, 2019)

is this 6 year gap gonna be represented in the book


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## Banhammer (Dec 18, 2019)

possibly in the next one


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## Bergelmir (Dec 19, 2019)

Zhen Chan said:


> is this 6 year gap gonna be represented in the book


I wonder how that would affect Jim's plans if he does do a 6 year time skip.

Maggie would be in her mid teens so she'd need Harry's guidance if her magical talent takes after him. Lash Jr gets a lot more living experience. Molly gets a lot more time as the Winter Lady; how twisted will that leave her? Murphy and Michael get another six years tacked on, leaving them pretty old now. Ivy is now in her 20s. Butters should be fairly comfortable and capable as a Knight of the Cross instead of a newbie.

And on and on.


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## Banhammer (Dec 19, 2019)

This book won't have the time skip, and we already know the plot for the next two, so odds are low


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## Bluebeard (Dec 19, 2019)

Banhammer said:


> This book won't have the time skip, and we already know the plot for the next two, so odds are low



what is the plot for the book after Peace Talks??


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## Zhen Chan (Dec 19, 2019)

Bluebeard said:


> what is the plot for the book after Peace Talks??


Yeah ive heard nothing of this


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## Banhammer (Dec 20, 2019)

The next one is cut man, and Harry is going to basically "be in the corner" of some God in their boxing match.

The one after that is a Harry from a parallel time-line where he MADE A MASSIVE LIFE DECISION DIFFERENTLY invades 616 Harry's time line to raise some conflict

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bergelmir (Dec 21, 2019)

Banhammer said:


> The next one is cut man, and Harry is going to basically "be in the corner" of some God in their boxing match.


Dear god, I want this already. That sounds fantastic.

You just made the next three years already unbearable for me.


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## Banhammer (Dec 21, 2019)

Well you also know that alternative universe Harry has something to do with "mirror world"


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## Bergelmir (Dec 21, 2019)

> The one after that is a Harry from a parallel time-line where he MADE A MASSIVE LIFE DECISION DIFFERENTLY invades 616 Harry's time line to raise some conflict


Trying to think what the massive life decision would be. Not becoming Winter Knight seems like an obvious one. Not killing Susan another.

EDIT: Maybe something with how he deals with Kravos/Biance in Grave Peril. Maybe he doesn't save Susan? She feeds on him, and turns him into Red Court?

EDIT 2: Actually, yeah, Grave Peril makes a lot of sense to me. Saving Susan and killing Bianca is what kicks off the war against the Red Court. I can see that being the change, with Mirror-Harry living in a world with no Red Court war. Thats a pretty massive change to the world.


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## Adamant soul (Dec 21, 2019)

Bergelmir said:


> Trying to think what the massive life decision would be. Not becoming Winter Knight seems like an obvious one. Not killing Susan another.
> 
> EDIT: Maybe something with how he deals with Kravos/Biance in Grave Peril. Maybe he doesn't save Susan? She feeds on him, and turns him into Red Court?
> 
> EDIT 2: Actually, yeah, Grave Peril makes a lot of sense to me. Saving Susan and killing Bianca is what kicks off the war against the Red Court. I can see that being the change, with Mirror-Harry living in a world with no Red Court war. Thats a pretty massive change to the world.



What about when his old teacher tried to turn him to dark magic as a teenager? What if he didn't refuse and choose to fight back against him, instead learning dark magic?

Though granted, having mirror Harry just be "Evil/Dark Harry" would be the most obvious and generic choice. Still I would like to see how Jim would handle it.


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## Banhammer (Dec 21, 2019)

I *think* but don't remember super correctly, that the "time zone" of the decision is "circa bianca/Susan"


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## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2019)




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## Banhammer (Dec 31, 2019)

>Skin Game
>C Rank

Harsh


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## Bergelmir (Dec 31, 2019)

Honestly, the way the Dresden Files go, you just rank them in order of publication. They just get better with each book. My only caveat is that Dead Beat and Small Favour go at the top (DB being no.1, and SF being second), and that the scene with Butters picking up Fiddelachius is thrown in the trash.


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## Zhen Chan (Dec 31, 2019)

Swap ghost stories and skin game


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## Lucaniel (Jan 1, 2020)

Bergelmir said:


> Honestly, the way the Dresden Files go, you just rank them in order of publication. *They just get better with each book. *My only caveat is that Dead Beat and Small Favour go at the top (DB being no.1, and SF being second), and that the scene with Butters picking up Fiddelachius is thrown in the trash.


i really don't think they do, lol. certainly the first two are the worst because his writing skills were at their least-polished, and because he had the least idea of how to develop his world in an interesting way back then, but skin game had tons of cringeworthy parts - especially the one you mentioned - and is definitely a low-tier work within the series a a whole


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## Bergelmir (Jan 1, 2020)

Lucaniel said:


> i really don't think they do, lol. certainly the first two are the worst because his writing skills were at their least-polished, and because he had the least idea of how to develop his world in an interesting way back then, but skin game had tons of cringeworthy parts - especially the one you mentioned - and is definitely a low-tier work within the series a a whole


Maybe its just been a while, but I can't remember much cringe in Skin Games.


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## Zhen Chan (Jan 2, 2020)

Wait i just noticed changes is in A tier and not s


Entire list is now invalid


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## Banhammer (Jan 8, 2020)

Jim Butcher dropping micro-fictions on his website

*Spoiler*: __ 






> *Mike*
> By Jim Butcher
> 
> I had to push the Blue Beetle the last thirty feet and into the parking lot of Mad Mike’s Motorcycle and Volkswagen Repair. Then, because it was on a slope, all six-feet and eight or nine inches of me had to jump into the Bug and steer it toward one of the repair bays.
> ...


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## Banhammer (Jan 18, 2020)

cover for peace talks is out.


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## Bergelmir (Jan 18, 2020)

There's an exerpt from the book out as well. I'm going in fully blind this time, but here you guys go:


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## WorkingMoogle (Mar 5, 2020)

Bergelmir said:


> Trying to think what the massive life decision would be. Not becoming Winter Knight seems like an obvious one. Not killing Susan another.


Speculation I've heard is it's not eating Kravos' magic at the end of Grave Peril.


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## Bergelmir (Mar 5, 2020)

WorkingMoogle said:


> Speculation I've heard is it's not eating Kravos' magic at the end of Grave Peril.


On its own, I don't really see how that would change anything. Harry would've still got his power back, which should've been enough to summon the ghosts to defeat Bianca. And things play out roughly the same, minus the temporary boost from Kravos' magic. Doesn't seem like a big enough change.

Unless... unless Harry and his ghost defeated Kravos without recovering Harry's magic. Then, I guess Harry wouldn't have had enough power to defeat Bianca by summoning all those ghosts. And I suppose he would have had to make a hard choice to survive that onslaught. Plus, Harry would have been a massively weaker wizard after this, because he never recovered his lost power. Harry resisting dark deals and offers for power has been a strong point for the character. AU Harry might end up taking the offers instead, because he was so much weaker.


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## WorkingMoogle (Mar 6, 2020)

Bergelmir said:


> On its own, I don't really see how that would change anything. Harry would've still got his power back, which should've been enough to summon the ghosts to defeat Bianca. And things play out roughly the same, minus the temporary boost from Kravos' magic. Doesn't seem like a big enough change.


Speculation is that what Dresden got from Kravos wasn't simply a "temporary power boost" but rather some permanent characteristic changes.

Which would make the mirror universe Harry his "good" clone, sorta 

But I _just_ finished my first read-through of the series so I'm probably missing a lot of the finer details.


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## Banhammer (Mar 9, 2020)

Man I need to re-read the whole series cuz I don't remember half this shit


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## Zorp (Mar 24, 2020)

You guys hear about Butcher releasing another Dresden book in September called Battle Ground? Is this real life?


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## Zhen Chan (Mar 24, 2020)

this just in, filthy liar jim butcher claims double release


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## Banhammer (Mar 25, 2020)

Yeaup, I guess Jim got lucky getting his home office done in just in time


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## Mercy (Mar 28, 2020)

The next one is called Battle Ground after Peace Talk.

Here is what the book will be about, and the book does come out September 29th 2020.

_"THINGS ARE ABOUT TO GET SERIOUS FOR HARRY DRESDEN, CHICAGO’S ONLY PROFESSIONAL WIZARD, in the next entry in the #1 New York Times bestselling Dresden Files.

Harry has faced terrible odds before. He has a long history of fighting enemies above his weight class. The Red Court of vampires. The fallen angels of the Order of the Blackened Denarius. The Outsiders.

But this time it’s different. A being more powerful and dangerous on an order of magnitude beyond what the world has seen in a millennium is coming. And she’s bringing an army. The Last Titan has declared war on the city of Chicago, and has come to subjugate humanity, obliterating any who stand in her way.

Harry’s mission is simple but impossible: Save the city by killing a Titan. And the attempt will change Harry’s life, Chicago, and the mortal world forever. "_


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## Banhammer (Apr 10, 2020)

just read the Goodman Grey short story

It's.. Eh. Mr Grey is a cool been to see in action, but its as filler as it can get


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## Bergelmir (Apr 19, 2020)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Mercy (Apr 20, 2020)

Can  I  have  the book  NOW PLEASE


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## Banhammer (May 5, 2020)

the cover for battle ground is out and there's a HUGE spoiler in it
I'm serious, it's pretty big, maybe avoid it

*Spoiler*: __ 



 Dresden has affixed that jesus spear from Skin Game attop his Demon Reach staff

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bergelmir (May 5, 2020)

Banhammer said:


> the cover for battle ground is out and there's a HUGE spoiler in it
> I'm serious, it's pretty big, maybe avoid it
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Oh shiiiiiiit.

Thats probably what that scene between Harry and Ebenezer is about in the trailer, where Eb asks "are you sure about this".


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## WorkingMoogle (May 5, 2020)

Banhammer said:


> the cover for battle ground is out and there's a HUGE spoiler in it
> I'm serious, it's pretty big, maybe avoid it
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Assuming it's not just artist license I've got another possible theory:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Could also be Odin's spear.  Though one could only speculate as to what events would lead to Dresden "borrowing' that.

Or maybe Dresden's just respecing from Wizard to polearm master fighter.  Though to think about it he was making ice "cannonballs" on his staff in Skin Game, it's not impossible that he goes with some sort of ice spearhead if he has to fight something that is mostly magic immune again.


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## Bergelmir (May 5, 2020)

WorkingMoogle said:


> Assuming it's not just artist license I've got another possible theory:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


I like that first theory. Harry certainly has the connections for it.


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## WorkingMoogle (May 5, 2020)

Bergelmir said:


> I like that first theory. Harry certainly has the connections for it.


Yup, to me suggests a lot of interesting things happening between now and then.

I was _mostly _joking in the other one, was going to not spoiler it but realized it inferred spoilers so I played it safe.

(I know, I know, everyone here has already read the spoilers about how "magic" only exists in the Dresdenverse because aliens seeded earth with mind-reading nanobots that can reproduce effects based on the will of sufficiently gifted individuals)


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## Banhammer (May 6, 2020)

also we got a new microfiction abut what happened to boy big foot


*Spoiler*: __ 



irwin and his white court girlfriend got jobs in that chicago school for supernatural kids


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## Banhammer (Jun 14, 2020)

chapter 2 is out, it's more dadporn


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## Zhen Chan (Jun 14, 2020)

Banhammer said:


> chapter 2 is out, it's more dadporn


Dadporn?

Fat grill action?


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## Banhammer (Jun 15, 2020)

Hardcore Pun Acting


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## Grinningfox (Jun 15, 2020)

I’m super excited for PT


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## Bergelmir (Jun 15, 2020)

Grinningfox said:


> I’m super excited for PT


I kind of can’t believe we’re less than a month away from Peace Talks now. It’s been a long five years.


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## Grinningfox (Jun 15, 2020)

Bergelmir said:


> I kind of can’t believe we’re less than a month away from Peace Talks now. It’s been a long five years.


For sure 

I just finished my first ever reread in an attempt to pass the time but I was so engrossed I finished early ( last week) and now it’s worse lol


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## Zhen Chan (Jul 5, 2020)

my preorder is burning a hole in my shopping cart


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## Zhen Chan (Jul 8, 2020)

Decided to read the 6 chapters out right now, jesus christ


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## Grinningfox (Jul 8, 2020)

Saw some interesting takes on reddit about how either Ebenezer or Carlos are setting Harry up


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## Cromer (Jul 8, 2020)

Eh, why would Carlos be setting Harry up? Convoluted vengeance for what happened in _Cold Case_?


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## Grinningfox (Jul 8, 2020)

Cromer said:


> Eh, why would Carlos be setting Harry up? Convoluted vengeance for what happened in _Cold Case_?


Could be Nfected 

Carlos also hasn’t trusted Dresden since all the unexplained things he was doing in White Night


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## Bergelmir (Jul 8, 2020)

Grinningfox said:


> Could be Nfected
> 
> Carlos also hasn’t trusted Dresden since all the unexplained things he was doing in White Night


Maybe I'm misremembering, but Carlos has been wary of Dresden. But he still trusts him, right?

EDIT: Also, holy shit boys. 5 days away now.


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## Zhen Chan (Jul 8, 2020)

Grinningfox said:


> Saw some interesting takes on reddit about how either Ebenezer or Carlos are setting Harry up


Its marcone


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## Grinningfox (Jul 8, 2020)

Bergelmir said:


> Maybe I'm misremembering, but Carlos has been wary of Dresden. But he still trusts him, right?
> 
> EDIT: Also, holy shit boys. 5 days away now.


I think with what happened in WN Changes  CD and CC  I’d say the grounds have been set for Carlos to be more than wary


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## Bergelmir (Jul 13, 2020)

Man, I haven't been this giddy in ages. 10.5 hours until midnight and its the 14th. I am going to be refreshing my kindle app like a madman to get the download.


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## Banhammer (Jul 13, 2020)

Sure hope sales go well, right @Detective?


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## Bergelmir (Jul 13, 2020)

It begins.


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## Banhammer (Jul 13, 2020)

Bergelmir said:


> It begins.


STOP PLAYING


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## Cromer (Jul 13, 2020)

Banhammer said:


> Sure hope sales go well, right @Detective?


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## Banhammer (Jul 13, 2020)

EXACTLY


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## Bergelmir (Jul 13, 2020)

Banhammer said:


> STOP PLAYING


Its that sweet, sweet Japan timezone, baby. 14th came earlier for me. Earlier release from Amazon!

Only read 5 chapters before conking out in bed, alas. Work is... painful, to say the least. I just want to start reading more, but I have shit to do!

Also, uh, check your pims. The annual congregation of united talks has released a document that all should see.


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## Banhammer (Jul 14, 2020)

I'll only read a couple of chapters and woops I'm almost two thirds of the way through


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## Bergelmir (Jul 14, 2020)

Banhammer said:


> I'll only read a couple of chapters and woops I'm almost two thirds of the way through


Its great, isn't it?


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## Zhen Chan (Jul 14, 2020)

"I dont mind sharing"

Lmfao


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## Zhen Chan (Jul 14, 2020)

Jesus fucking christ this book


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## Lucaniel (Jul 14, 2020)

finished the book. pretty disappointing - it was more like a book-length prelude to the next book than a fully satisfying narrative in its own right. it was repeating a central portion of the plots of both _blood rites_ & _turn coat, _and it added in the always-tedious "white council is suspicious of harry" subplot while executing it particularly poorly. at this point in harry's story, it's difficult for that plot to _not_ be dumb, because harry has saved the council at least twice over at this point, but even so, jim could've done more with it than he did. the butters segments remain questionable and often cringe-inducing due to jim's need to embroider the man's sex life, presumably as a way to offer hope to (what he thinks is -) his readership? but at least butters didn't have a crisis of faith here, just a crisis of getting too much pussy. overall, worse than skin game, possibly the worst DF book since fool moon

the few positives were: some very cool magic-fight scenes with ebenezar, some more interesting information about how demonreach works, and harry showing some personal development in how he approaches his conflicts, relationships, being a dad, etc. also lara getting a little more focus and humanity

but otherwise this book felt both haphazardly-put-together and unsatisfying. the fact that it took six years to produce this is really sad. i hope _battle ground_ is at least excellent to balance it out


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## Banhammer (Jul 14, 2020)

i finished it a few hours ago

it was a lot of what I expected


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## Zhen Chan (Jul 14, 2020)

Going in knowing that it was obly the first half of a single story prevented me from being disappointed

Its very skin gamey and very short though. Would have preferred the double length book


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## Cromer (Jul 19, 2020)

I KNEW I should have waited till Battle Ground was out.  It's rather easy to tell that the book was split in two and padded out, and the padding reads like a ghost writer did it.


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## Kuromaku (Jul 21, 2020)

Finished reading it yesterday and had to think to digest everything. It really does feel too short, too convoluted, and visibly split into two books with filler added. Details with continuity seem off (by intention or mistake, I am unsure), characters appear to be acting stupid, and for some inexplicable reason, everyone seems on the verge of picking fights, be it Harry and Thomas briefly having a tense moment at the start, Harry and Ebenezer with the whole Whampire issue (something major went on if the loss of a daughter was only part of it), Harry and the Council, Harry briefly having a frigging moment with Butters of all people, etc.

I dunno if it's the mantle, but why was everyone acting all belligerent?

Someone else said it, but this book could have been titled _Death Flags_ (even fits the scheme) what with all the competition between Murphy, Eb, and Thomas to see who could collect the most within the span of the novel. If Murphy goes down, and that's a very real possibility given the short Christmas Eve story, it would be the biggest rocking of the series' foundation since Susan (prominent character who debuted in the very first book) in _Changes_. The Dresden Cock Curse seems at it again. Eb was doomed since he was Harry's mentor and later revealed to be his grandfather, but now we got family issues that need resolving and a character bringing up how the old guard is barely holding on to deal with the latest crisis. Finally, although I doubt it personally if only because you'd expect him to be safe on the island, Thomas has got the whole thing with Justine being preggers.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorkingMoogle (Jul 23, 2020)

Finished as well, my thoughts:


*Spoiler*: __ 




I'll echo the "too short" though I only expected maybe 3-4 more chapters.  When they were going to the island I expected they'd do the island stuff, come back to Chicago, and Harry would pull something out to deflect the "witching hour" deadline into a more prolonged battle.  Thus allowing "Battle Ground" to continue the tradition of being about a year later.  That aside I mostly enjoyed it.  

I think Harry's his own worst enemy, but that's pretty consistent of the last dozen or so books.  I think he could have defused a lot of his problems if he were willing to talk even a little to people.  Which while I understand that's part of his nature, it does seem to be grating at this point.

I was very unhappy that Thomas' motivations didn't get developed at all, really.  I think it would feel less like "half a book" if they had resolved more there.  Not dealing with the Titan is pretty expected but not resolving any of the real plot lines of the book is frustrating.  That's probably my biggest complaint is 3-4 major plots and 10-15 minor ones were introduced (or re-introduced) but none of them were resolved.

Still, some good stuff.  Harry/Murphy was good.  Harry/Eb was good of frustrating.  Mab getting bitchslapped through a wall was very satisfying.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bergelmir (Jul 27, 2020)

Finally got time to finish the book. Honestly, pretty let down. There are a lot of cool moments, but its all set up. And its treading a lot of the same ground previous books did. Its like reading... the first half of a book, which is what it is. I'm really, really annoyed at the publishers for splitting the book because there was really no reason to, and its pretty obvious at this point that its just a cash grab.

That said, that ending was a pretty hype "time to go to war" moment, though. Also, jesus fuck at Eb's reaction to the reveal. (Assuming Blackstaff instability is playing a role here.) Harry and Eb are going to need some family therapy after Battle Grounds.

All in all, I feel cockblocked from not being able to finish the story, and I look forward to getting my nut in September.

EDIT: You know what it is? Every single DF book before this, I poopsocked until the end. I couldn't put it down. I read that shit at work, on my phone at red lights while driving, hell, I even once was reading it in the middle of a school exam(aced it btw). DF books were like crack. This one... I had no problem putting it down to go do other stuff in the meantime. Even setting aside the book being split in two, there's some spark, some... Butcheriness, missing from the writing.


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## Cromer (Sep 29, 2020)

It's the 29th...guess it's time to go finish Peace Talks part 2

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bergelmir (Sep 29, 2020)

Cromer said:


> It's the 29th...guess it's time to go finish Peace Talks part 2


Oh fuck.

I thought Battle Grounds was next month. Gah! I need to go find my totally legit dealer of educational biographies.


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## Banhammer (Sep 29, 2020)

oh shit it comes out today!


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## WorkingMoogle (Sep 29, 2020)

Yup, I preordered so Amazon happily emailed me this morning


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## Banhammer (Sep 29, 2020)

better go look for my own copy then


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## Bergelmir (Sep 29, 2020)

WHY DID I PEEK AT THE ENDING LIKE I ALWAYS DO? I'M A FOOL. A GODDAMN MORON STUPID DICKHEAD CUNT.



Check your DMs, fellow degenerates.


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## Zhen Chan (Oct 6, 2020)

Am i the only one who hears christopher walkens voice when i read marcone


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## Bergelmir (Oct 6, 2020)

Zhen Chan said:


> Am i the only one who hears christopher walkens voice when i read marcone


That... you've completely changed Marcone's personality in my head with that comment now.


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## Zhen Chan (Oct 6, 2020)

Bergelmir said:


> That... you've completely changed Marcone's personality in my head with that comment now.


Suicode kings was an excellent movie


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## Bergelmir (Oct 6, 2020)

Zhen Chan said:


> Suicode kings was an excellent movie


Damn right it was.


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## Lucaniel (Oct 8, 2020)

there are three major plot points in battle ground which i really didn't like


*Spoiler*: __ 



1. murphy's accidental death. i've seen people variously argue that she was due to die because it was 'foreshadowed' (that is a writing choice in itself, which it's perfectly reasonable to dislike) and that her death scene's senseless randomness was good because it was 'realistic' or 'gritty' because accidental gun discharges due to bad trigger discipline sometimes kill people. well...this isn't some realistic noir series. this is a series where a wish-fulfillment nerd character gets a lightsaber. so jim doesn't get points from me for killing off the most prominent female character in the book so that harry can experience some more manpain (TM), especially since he didn't have the balls to kill off ebenezar (even more death flags than murphy) or butters (just a shit character who realistically would've died like 20 times over)

2. marcone now being a genius wizard due to having thorned namshiel's coin. it degrades marcone's appeal as the guy who represents what a very smart, very ruthless human can do with human resources because he's now taken up a denarian coin. it also simultaneously powers him up so much that it's absurd, because he was dancing around ethniu and she couldn't touch him, after that same ethniu had just knocked out odin, the erlking, and titania.

3. harry and lara's impending marriage. because...what? also, how can you kill murphy off and then set harry up with lara in the same book? aside from anything else, isn't it not only quite disrespectful, but also emblematic of how this series has just devolved into jim's sex fantasies? why the hell was it necessary? what is this melodramatic soap opera shit? why?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Bergelmir (Oct 8, 2020)

Lucaniel said:


> there are three major plot points in battle ground which i really didn't like
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



Murphy's death: Yeah, that really rubbed me the wrong way. It kind of felt like a needless "lets fuck with Harry" moment. Also, like. Its an obvious set-up for the alternate timeline book to bring out the waterworks when Murphy is still alive in the other timeline.

Marcone: Again, rubs me the wrong way, too. However, this one I sort of understand. We're hitting the endgame of the main series now. And people need to start powering up for the BAT. Marcone was always going to be juiced up in some way if he was to survive all the way. That much was obvious from the start. I just don't like how "move the chess pieces to where they need to be" it felt.

Lara: I think you're interpreting this wrong. Its clearly meant to be another obstacle in Harry's life, not a replacement love for Murphy. Its not Harry getting down with sexy vamps. (Although I do think there's going to be a measure of "we can sort of, maybe, kinda, sort of, maybe, weirdly rely on each other" that'll come out of it.) This is Winter Queen machinations. Considering Ramirez' suspicions of Harry in PT, I'm guessing part of the point is to fuck with the White Council. Mab is gearing up for the BAT, and this would throw those suspicions into high gear. Pitting the White Council against the Winter Court and White Court, and probably breaking the Council due to the rebels vs the Black Council.


Also. Does anyone just kind of hate Butters now? He went from being the best boy, to Gary-Stu-just-fuck-right-off, for me.


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## Zhen Chan (Oct 9, 2020)

Lucaniel said:


> there are three major plot points in battle ground which i really didn't like
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 




1. Its been coming for several books. She was always either going to die or become crippled. Having her die from a bog standard human is kinda shitty, but also how she would have died if she had never met dresden so thats fitting

2. Dudes had Namsheil for like 8 books. Its damn near the reason he became a respected freeholding lord

3. Shrug


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## Lucaniel (Oct 9, 2020)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


haha i was on that train after the skin game lightsaber. everything which came after - werewolf threesome??? - has just solidified it as perhaps butcher's worst-ever storyline decision


*Spoiler*: __ 



i guess i see your point wrt lara but i do feel that peace talks really 'softened' her relationship with dresden in a way that creates romantic possibilities which previously would not have existed (e.g. back in white night when he was telling her he'd kill her someday).


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## Zhen Chan (Oct 9, 2020)

Are we gonna talk about how stupidly op Carlos is?


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## Kuromaku (Oct 13, 2020)

*Spoiler*: __ 




I won't lie, I kind of found Butters arc annoying not in the sense of becoming a Knight and a person coming into his own, but rather the wish fulfillment aspects being rather blatant (the lightsaber I can accept because Jim's a nerd and it makes clear that the Swords are more than their blades, the hot girlfriend into threesomes not so much).

Murphy had to go down at some point. Surprised me though that it happened so far from the end of the series (22 books plus the BAT should be the final count). Still, with the old lab and Bob around, Jim might be re-introducing certain foundational aspects of the series so that it doesn't become completely unrecognizable or uncomfortable (I wonder if the changes to Butcher's life in recent years might have led him in this direction). I wonder if Odin might be able to bring her back early if the Apocalypse/Ragnarok comes along since all hands should be on deck (then again, "Apocalypse is a state of mind").

It is pretty annoying how Harry kind of keeps making things worse for himself, even if the White Council are being dicks and Carlos being worried about Harry's new friends makes little sense given that he's also friends with Knights of the Cross past and present, who, last we checked, are good people and totally trustworthy.

Justine's situation really puts a lot of details in a new light.

Ethniu and the Fomor raised the stakes while still leaving room for more (the comment by Eb about this not being "everyone"). She was pretty flat as a character, although Jim tried to hint at greater depths with her past and some of her memories that Harry experienced. Her smacking everyone around but getting worn down over the course of the battle made her stand out from past enemies.

Random thoughts: I wonder who it was that spoke through Butters and the truth behind the White God's ascension. Drakul managed to steal his scene thoroughly. Listen is probably the most competent henchman around. Thorned Namshiel somehow grew on me based on his bitchy comment to Ethniu and his implied joke/suggestion that Marcone prepare gopher wood for an ark.


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## Zorp (Nov 10, 2020)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Whoooooooo boy.  What a ride.  Best part of Battle Ground for me was the skirmish with Drakul.  I mean, come on.  _Freaking Drakul_.  It was also awesome seeing Mavra again.  You know things are bad when she is the _least_ among her peers.

I also took fiendish glee watching River Shoulders destroy the enemy on multiple occasions.  The fact that he taught Listens-To-Wind speaks volumes about his ability.  Kinda sad that we didn't get to see Martha Liberty flex more.

Murphy....man.  Death flags or not, I wasn't expecting her to die here.  And from a bullet wound to the neck, no less.  I know it's fitting given she was a cop and that she's a vanilla human, but it still felt grossly unjust to her character.  At least she took out a GIANT before she left, saving Harry's life in the process.  Before the book began, I was holding out hope that she would get healed by an angel, a Summer/Winter Mother, or some other crazy reason, but it was not to be.  I didn't see any other way she could stay in the fight.  The series is pretty strict when it comes to healing magic.  Hardly anything exists that can truly heal a damaged body and reverse the adverse effects.  Makes me wonder how Harry will survive if he gets rid of the Winter Mantle.  That thing is keeping him from being a cripple the last I checked.  The book made it seem like we won't be seeing Murphy as an Einherjar.  Not until everyone forgets about her.  Perhaps we will see her in some other capacity.  It makes me wonder how the afterlife works in this series.  I mean, the White God is pretty darn powerful because of the believer base.  Angels are quite mighty (I think it was an angel who spoke through Butters, too).  Being a Catholic, wouldn't Murphy's soul go to Heaven rather than being inducted into the Einherjar?  Ehh, I won't fuss over it too much.  Anyways, the series won't feel the same without her.  Guess this means Molly has a shot with Harry after all, huh?  They'll both live long wizardly lives, if they survive, at any rate.  That's something that would have cramped the Harry/Murphy ship long-term.

The Justine revelation threw me completely.  Wow.  Bravo.  Now I want to revisit the other books to see if there were any hints that she was acting odd from the time of possession.  Same thing with Marcone having Thorned Namshiel.  So when Marcone screwed over Nicodemus, he was also maybe making a power play for leadership of the Knights of the Blackended Denarius.  I, too, think that Marcone was able to hold his own a little too well against Ethniu.  It was cool seeing her be put in her place by two humans, but it felt like he was hitting above his weight class, so-to-speak.  Marcone with a Fallen is a scary thought, indeed.  I suppose he reasoned that he wouldn't survive against supernatural beings without become more than human himself.  If nothing else, this book let us know that regular people don't stand a chance as individuals.  Hendricks, Murph.  It's only in numbers with heavy artillery that humans pose a threat.

I'm a little confused on how much control Harry has of the prisoners on the island.  Like, could he have released a Big Nasty to take on Ethniu as a last resort, or would that essentially free said prisoner?  It sounded like one of the reasons Harry is seen as such a threat is that he could let loose world-ending creatures even worse than Ethniu and use them for his purposes to a certain degree.

All that being said, I am EXTREMELY happy to see Harry get his old lab back, along with one of the most secure abodes on the planet.  I want to see him tap into its defenses and make the place a fortress that could even stand against a White Council onslaught.  Seriously, screw the White Council.  Harry and his supporters are off risking their lives while the rest of the council dicks around and votes Harry out.  Good riddance.  Carlos is cool, but he's one of the only decent White Council members we know of besides Ebenezer, Martha Liberty, and Listens-To-Wind.  Carlos really _is_ OP with that disintegrating attack.  How do you even guard against that?  Yet, he still was overpowered by the Black Court vamps, so his power has limitations.

Not too keen on the marriage arrangement at the end.  Felt like wish-fulfilling forced drama.  Harry needs to divorce himself from Mab ASAP.  He needs to get some distance between himself and the White Court, too.  Thomas is an exception--the rest are monsters who care not for human life aside from using them as food.  He's losing more of himself, pushing his body past its limit, and wrapped up in obligations beyond his comfort level.  It's only a matter of time before Mab asks him to assassinate someone.  He already killed humans with fire magic this time around--it's just one more step.  The Winter Mantle has worn out its welcome.  I want Harry to be free of all influences and have time to hit the magical books with Bob for some truly entertaining results.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kuromaku (Nov 10, 2020)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Won't lie, having Murphy get killed off only a little over halfway through the book kind of left the emotional impact lost in the series of consecutive big moments throughout the book for me.

Harry's comments about how those looking to do what is necessary often have to sell more and more of their souls (metaphorical and otherwise) seems to suggest he'll be skirting a very dangerous edge. It's easy to justify your means if you feel the ends are worth it, but at some point, you get twisted enough that the means are in their own right questionable (as Harry has seen outright with the likes of the antagonists in _Fool Moon_).


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## Zhen Chan (Nov 11, 2020)

Kuromaku said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



 The next book is literally just harry mourning


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## Lord Melkor (Nov 17, 2020)

So, are the two last books good? I really liked this series and read almost all of it few years ago.


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## Bergelmir (Nov 17, 2020)

Lord Melkor said:


> So, are the two last books good? I really liked this series and read almost all of it few years ago.


Yeah, they're good. Peace Talks suffers from being split into two, and so its really just set up because its the first half of a book. But when read together with Battle Ground as it should be, it all comes together. Its Jim Butcher being Jim Butcher doing Jim Butcher things.


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## Banhammer (Mar 17, 2021)

Lucaniel said:


> haha i was on that train after the skin game lightsaber. everything which came after - werewolf threesome??? - has just solidified it as perhaps butcher's worst-ever storyline decision
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


I've been thinking a lot about this and yeah, butters needs to be dead

i think the only reason jim didn't pull the trigger on him yet is because he's a info dump vessel


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## Grinningfox (Mar 17, 2021)

I personally am indifferent to butters


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