# Aizen vs. Vader



## ~Avant~ (Sep 6, 2010)

The self proclaimed god, takes on the Sith lord. Who wins?


----------



## Zaru (Sep 6, 2010)

In before someone posts ridiculous vader feats from some random EU material that hardly anyone cares about


----------



## ~Avant~ (Sep 6, 2010)

Only thing ridiculous about EU Vader is his range for the most part.


----------



## 11wongjk2 (Sep 6, 2010)

mindrape gg


----------



## Marsala (Sep 6, 2010)

Aizen is wwaaaaayyy more powerful and can regenerate from having his whole chest missing. He wins unless Vader can hit him with the Death Star main weapon.


----------



## 11wongjk2 (Sep 6, 2010)

Marsala said:


> Aizen is wwaaaaayyy more powerful and can regenerate from having his whole chest missing. He wins unless Vader can hit him with the Death Star main weapon.



with movie feats. Then maybe aizen has a chance. EU? Aizen get rape for every possible reason


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Sep 6, 2010)

Vader wins thanks to EU feats im to lazy to post so i will let someone else put them in


----------



## Zaru (Sep 6, 2010)

11wongjk2 said:


> with movie feats. Then maybe aizen has a chance. EU? Aizen get rape for every possible reason



"Maybe" against movie Vader? What did movie Vader do that would even allow him to remotely harm Aizen and not get one-shotted?


----------



## Kirito (Sep 6, 2010)

Vader: Aizen, I am your father.
Aizen: Did you ever think that your father might have been me?
Vader: 
Aizen: 

Aizen wins


----------



## Zaru (Sep 6, 2010)

1234567890 said:


> Aizen doesn't have Kubo's shitty plot on his side in this fight, that wouldn't work.



Without shitty plot, Aizen would actually use illusions or go bankai. So it only works in his favor


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Sep 6, 2010)

Zaru said:


> Without shitty plot, Aizen would actually use illusions or go bankai. So it only works in his favor



to bad he never used Bankai yet so we can't really use it in debates


----------



## Zaru (Sep 6, 2010)

ShikiYakumo said:


> to bad he never used Bankai yet so we can't really use it in debates



I blame Kubo Tite and all he stands for


----------



## John Carter of Mars (Sep 6, 2010)

I think Aizen would have this. Even though I like Vader as a classic villain more.


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Sep 6, 2010)

Zaru said:


> I blame Kubo Tite and all he stands for



that is true all Aizen has going for him in this fight is his power to troll


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Sep 6, 2010)

Well Vader fought someone who could TK star destroyers and took repeated TK blasts, force lightning, got hit with nearby objects and took a lightsaber cut or two then still survived an explosion later on that is more powerful than an attack which could turn Storm Troopers and their armor to ash. That should take care of durability.

-Vader has precog so illusions won't work
-Vader can read minds like other force users who worked for the Empire
-He can manipulate memories
-Mentally torture
-Mind control
-Erode the will of his opponents to fight with Don Moch, psycological warfare on crack

Vader can't hurt him with his TK but he could immobilise or disarm him, he's casually force choked someone from across lightyears so he has the range. After that he mindrapes Aizen.

Force Unleashed is canon and so is EU as Lucas is involved with it and tells the writers what they can and cannot do. He's the one who ordered them to kill Anakin solo.


----------



## Fang (Sep 6, 2010)

lol at illusions making a difference in this fight against a Force-User like Vader


----------



## paulatreides0 (Sep 6, 2010)

Couldn't Vader just force crush him until Aizen is compressed into about the size of a matchbox???

Either that or Vader simply holds him still using TK, lightsaber throws and kills Aizen. Aizen isn't regenerating after making contact with a high energy weapon such as a lightsaber, as the heat damage would scar his cells until there is nothing left but scarred tissue that is unable to regenerate or function.


----------



## Zaru (Sep 6, 2010)

Illusions are a non-factor anyway since Aizen never invoked his shikai against someone new in an actual fight


----------



## Fang (Sep 6, 2010)

its a non-factor either way because he's going to get lobotomized by Vader's telepathy even if he did use it


----------



## Hoshino Rika (Sep 6, 2010)

Darth Vader could fight Starkiller and he's way stronger than Aizen.


----------



## Shoddragon (Sep 6, 2010)

TWF said:


> lol at illusions making a difference in this fight against a Force-User like Vader


lol @ aizen's illusions being "all that" in general. seriously. aizen's illusions start getting wanked a little too much. they aren't fooling 6th senses like prediction haki in OP or tsuna's hyper intuition, or force users, or anyone with high enough mental abilities.

Vader should be close in power to starkiller anyway who can TK star destroyers. he rips aizen in half then mindrapes the remains.


----------



## The777Man (Sep 6, 2010)

EU Vader takes this in a massive rape.


----------



## cnorwood (Sep 6, 2010)

vader turns the butterfly into a marble and starts playing jacks


----------



## Endless Mike (Sep 7, 2010)

Zaru said:


> In before someone posts ridiculous vader feats from some random EU material that hardly anyone cares about



In before someone says "let's ignore canon material for no reason".

Oops, too late.



~Avant~ said:


> Only thing ridiculous about EU Vader is his range for the most part.



Because it's not he force choked a guy across space from another ship in TESB, right?


----------



## Bart (Sep 7, 2010)

Couldn't Vader simply mind rape Aizen to the point where he thinks that he's a little school girl?


----------



## Zaru (Sep 7, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> In before someone says "let's ignore canon material for no reason".
> 
> Oops, too late.



I didn't say we should ignore it, nor do I see Aizen winning.

EU is still ridiculous.


----------



## zenieth (Sep 7, 2010)

Bart said:


> Couldn't Vader simply mind rape Aizen to the point where he thinks that he's a little school girl?



He's already a fairy princess. Not that much of a long shot


----------



## Endless Mike (Sep 7, 2010)

Zaru said:


> I didn't say we should ignore it, nor do I see Aizen winning.
> 
> EU is still ridiculous.



How much of it have you even read


----------



## ~Avant~ (Sep 7, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Because it's not he force choked a guy across space from another ship in TESB, right?



Thats why I said his range was ridiculous....

Reading Comprehension 101


----------



## Endless Mike (Sep 7, 2010)

You said his EU range was ridiculous when I posted an example of great movie range.


----------



## Bart (Sep 7, 2010)

zenieth said:


> He's already a fairy princess. Not that much of a long shot



Oh lol


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Sep 7, 2010)

EU Vader mind rapes aizen the psycho Butterfly till he turns back into a caterpillar


----------



## Zaru (Sep 7, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> You said his EU range was ridiculous when I posted an example of great movie range.



Force choking an average human isn't exactly a big feat, even if the range is impressive.


----------



## Fang (Sep 7, 2010)

That's like saying throwing a person across a star system with telekinesis isn't impressive because the said person was normal.


----------



## Zaru (Sep 7, 2010)

Unless movie vader's tk gets proportionally stronger the closer his target is, you have a point, otherwise no. And I don't remember him choking anyone that actually has a defense or superhuman durability against that. IN THE MOVIES.


----------



## Fang (Sep 7, 2010)

Except I am right, seeing as how Vader can use telekinesis simply with a line of sight across the expanse of space or at least multiple kilometers away without even using his hands. 

Your bitching for no reason.


----------



## Zaru (Sep 7, 2010)

But I already said, the range IS impressive. It's the strength of his tk in the movies that's underwhelming unless I'm forgetting some huge feat here.

Has no meaning here since EU is involved, I'm just saying.


----------



## Endless Mike (Sep 7, 2010)

He was able to easily rip machinery weighing many tons off of the walls it was securely bolted to and throw it at Luke.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Sep 7, 2010)




----------



## MisterShin (Sep 8, 2010)

Guess what guys i bet Aizen gets another transformation, andddddddd he would still lose to Vader and Ichigo .


----------



## enzymeii (Sep 8, 2010)

Just out of curiosity are we equalizing reiatsu with force?  Because if not Vader would be vaporized just by standing next to Aizen...


----------



## Fang (Sep 8, 2010)

Too bad Aizen doesn't have the Force.


----------



## Stilzkin (Sep 8, 2010)

enzymeii said:


> Just out of curiosity are we equalizing reiatsu with force?  Because if not Vader would be vaporized just by standing next to Aizen...



Aizen's bubble of reiatsu didn't seem to be very big when he was walking around, unless the fight starts with them like 1m away from each other.


----------



## Zaru (Sep 9, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> able to easily rip machinery weighing many tons off of the walls it was securely bolted to





Darth Nihilus said:


> *Video where Vader takes several seconds to tear some cable pipes weighing maybe a few hundred kilos at most out of the wall and slowly hurls it at Luke, then proceeds to throw some boxes and random items*



Yeah cool story bro


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 9, 2010)

11wongjk2 said:


> with movie feats. Then maybe aizen has a chance. EU? Aizen get rape for every possible reason



I don't really like star wars and didn't even see the Episode titled movies, however, I remember the older ones a bit better. In which case, I am wondering what did he show in those movies that would smake him a threat to even a typical captain?


----------



## 11wongjk2 (Sep 9, 2010)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> I don't really like star wars and didn't even see the Episode titled movies, however, I remember the older ones a bit better. In which case, I am wondering what did he show in those movies that would smake him a threat to even a typical captain?



force choke and tk his sword. No sword, no whatever-kai. can't speak, no kido. But then speed maybe a problem so i need to know how fast are star wars movie blasters hence the "maybe"


----------



## Fang (Sep 9, 2010)

Zaru said:


> Yeah cool story bro



Which is still good enough to beat Aizen

lol


----------



## Zaru (Sep 9, 2010)

TWF said:


> Which is still good enough to beat Aizen
> 
> lol



TK on the level of peak human throwing/lifting strength taking down Aizen?

That'd take down Hanatarou. Maybe.


----------



## Fang (Sep 9, 2010)

TK good enough to fuck up skyscrapers that go dozens of kilometers into sky or affect buildings on a eucenmenopolis?

Peak human? lol.


----------



## Zaru (Sep 9, 2010)

"Fuck up skyscrapers"

What?


----------



## Fang (Sep 9, 2010)

Did you watch Star Wars


----------



## Zaru (Sep 9, 2010)

My memory is hazy, remind me will you


----------



## Fang (Sep 9, 2010)

Its a classic you might like it


----------



## Zaru (Sep 9, 2010)

TWF said:


> Its a classic you might like it





I'm talking about the actual scenes where that happened, Fangerang


----------



## Fang (Sep 9, 2010)

If you watched Revenge of the Sith it should be obvious which scene we're talking about


----------



## enzymeii (Sep 9, 2010)

Zaru, he's talking about the scene at the end where Vader sort of crunches some metal in the room where he's resurrected.  Not really an impressive feat in and of itself, but iirc the RotS novel explains that he shook the building they were in (which apparently was a sky-scraper).  

Personally, I'm still not convinced it's enough to take down a guy who blocks city-block level attacks one-handed and casually makes hundred meter wide craters.  Mind-rape is the best argument Vader has going for him.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Sep 9, 2010)

enzymeii said:


> Just out of curiosity are we equalizing reiatsu with force?  Because if not Vader would be vaporized just by standing next to Aizen...



Link removed


----------



## Fang (Sep 9, 2010)

enzymeii said:


> Zaru, he's talking about the scene at the end where Vader sort of crunches some metal in the room where he's resurrected.  Not really an impressive feat in and of itself, but iirc the RotS novel explains that he shook the building they were in (which apparently was a sky-scraper).



Wrong.

It shows him shaking the entire skyscraper, which you know, are multiple kilometers in length and requires tens of thousands of gee forces to do so.



> Personally, I'm still not convinced it's enough to take down a guy who blocks city-block level attacks one-handed and casually makes hundred meter wide craters.  Mind-rape is the best argument Vader has going for him.



Do you think Aizen can beat Galen Marek.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Sep 9, 2010)

^Vader could'nt beat him either and while he was even in skill for a while even breaking his defense for a while and took a lot of hits like force lightning, TK blasts, saber slash and lots of objects being thrown at him even laughing midway and later surviving Starkillers suicide force blast he does'nt have any TK feat comparable to Starkiller, it's a testament to his durability but it's possible Vader was stronger than Galen when he TK'd the star destroyer but got surpassed who knows. 80% of Sidious is still good force power though.

Vader still wins regardless.


----------



## Sazabi24 (Sep 9, 2010)

Vader casually crushes durasteel (the stuff that is 300,000 times stronger than steel)


----------



## God Movement (Sep 9, 2010)

Aizen? Beat Vader?

Maybe when pigs fly.


----------



## Narcissus (Sep 9, 2010)

enzymeii said:


> Zaru, he's talking about the scene at the end where Vader sort of crunches some metal in the room where he's resurrected.



Crushing the machines in the room alone is enough to refute Zaru's claim that Vader's TK is only "on the level of peak human throwing/lifting strength."


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 9, 2010)

Sazabi24 said:


> Vader casually crushes durasteel (the stuff that is 300,000 times stronger than steel)



how do they make that stuff?


----------



## Fang (Sep 9, 2010)

With technology.


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Sep 9, 2010)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> how do they make that stuff?



as TWF said with technology


----------



## Zaru (Sep 9, 2010)

enzymeii said:


> Not really an impressive feat in and of itself, but iirc the RotS novel explains that he shook the building they were in (which apparently was a sky-scraper).



Of course, the novel. The movie barely had some slight screen shaking to even indicate what's going on.

But as usual, the movie in itself stays in the context of episodes 4-6, while the secondary material makes it SKYSCRAPER SHAKING LEVEL!!!!11

Excuse me, I'll go facepalm somewhere.


----------



## Fang (Sep 9, 2010)

It showed the building shaking and stop bitching

"some novel" the same one that Lucas specifically told Stover how he wanted the story to be portrayed and had it authorized to be fully as canon as the film itself

Get over it


----------



## Zaru (Sep 9, 2010)

I didn't say it's not canon, I'm just bothered by how the movies, which are what most people will see of and associate with Star Wars barring the games, show something like a filtered, washed-down version of the canon

I can understand why Lucas wasn't able to portray some things as he wanted with the limitations of technology for episode 4-6
But that explanation doesn't work for episode 1-3


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Sep 9, 2010)

What?The movie shows him shaking that same building, the novel shows him doing the same just stating it more obviously. Canon is G canon and C-canon for Starwars and the novel has things in there because Lucas wanted them there.



> Though I did not personally watch him do it, I received from LFL a Word document of Revenge of the Sith with Mr Lucas' edits, which was distinct from the edits I'd already gotten from Sue Rostoni and Howard Roffman and the rest of the LFL crew, and this document was edited in such a detailed fashion that even individual words had been struck off and his preferred replacements inserted, as well as some passages wholly excised and some dialogue replaced with the dialogue from the screenplay. If that's not line-editing, I don't know what is.
> 
> *What's in that book is there because Mr. Lucas wanted it to be there. What's not in that book is not there because Mr. Lucas wanted it gone*
> 
> Period



The movie has Yoda sensing and watching things across lightyears, both the original(Yoda comments he's watched Luke all his life the latter being on another planet) prequels have one such feat(Yoda sensing Anakin while the former was on Coruscant in episode 2 after Anakin goes berserk at Shmi's death). The movie has Obi wan sensing the death of a planet while in hyperspace, original trilogy. Vader even comments the power to destroy a planet is insignificant to the force. The original Clone wars cartoon is canon as well since Lucas studios logo appears at the end of every episode and Lucas himself approached the creator of the cartoon for his work on Samurai Jack.

Jedi do react to supersonic to hypersonic blaster shots as shown in AOTC final fight. Obi wan and Qui Gon moved really fast in the Phantom menace and just two Jedi in episode I are potrayed as one man armies(see padwan kenobi and his master Qui gon). Darth Plaguis is canonically Sidious's master, the guy who could stop death and create life through the force. The new Clone wars cartoon references the Old republic and Lucas had a hand even coming up with the Dark Saber.


----------



## Fang (Sep 9, 2010)

lol

if anything the novels are more pure to the "continuity" of Star Wars than the movies themselves and I don't even get the association with the games

RoTS novelization makes that so clear its not even funny


----------



## Endless Mike (Sep 9, 2010)

Zaru said:


> Yeah cool story bro



It was calculated on SD.net

Oh yeah and in Episode 2, Anakin falls onto a repulsorcraft and uses The Force to dampen the fall, it was calculated that the amount of energy he absorbed (taking into account Coruscant's gravity) was quite a lot, I forget how much though.

I hate all of this "Movie Force Users are fucking weak and EU wanks them" BS.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 9, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Oh yeah and in Episode 2, Anakin falls onto a repulsorcraft and uses The Force to dampen the fall, it was calculated that the amount of energy he absorbed (taking into account Coruscant's gravity) was quite a lot, I forget how much though.





Crown did most of it, I think


----------



## Fang (Sep 9, 2010)

How exactly fast is 70-100 gees in more laymen's term?


----------



## Eternal Pein (Sep 9, 2010)

WTF is this trash rape thread, Vader mindrapes Aizen


----------



## Rainbird (Sep 10, 2010)

TWF said:


> How exactly fast is 70-100 gees in more laymen's term?



Where are you getting 70-100 g? The tentative calc on page 3, which Crimson Dragoon linked, gave a figure between *116 and 350 g*, but was later scrapped for inaccuracy (because it overestimated Anakin's deceleration time).

The improved calc on page 4 put Anakin's "durability" at between *1664.9 and 8324.8 g*. This calc was still not as accurate as it could have been, because the feat in question was Anakin falling vertically onto a horizontally-moving speeder, but the calc only took into account the vertical fall.

The final calc, on page 5, which took into account the different axial motions, put the number between *1899.2 and 18,875.3 g* (there were actually two calcs, hence the great disparity; I took the lowest and highest from both).


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


To answer your question, g (short for g-force) isn't a measure of speed, it's a measure of force. To put it in more intuitive terms,

70 - 100 g 
= 154 - 221 lbs 

1899 - 18,875 g 
= 4,187 - 41,619 lbs

You can convert that to tons or kg or whatever else if you want. 

Anakin fell face-first onto the speeder in AoTC, which applies what's called an "eyeballs-out" g force. The greatest eyeballs-out g-force a human has been recorded as surviving was 46.2 g (though it should be noted that he survived rather easily, and was not greatly hurt in any way besides temporary blindness).

Anakin's resistance would be somewhere between 90 and 900 times that of a human's, based on the updated calc by Crown.


----------



## Kirito (Sep 10, 2010)

Aizen wins, the God of Troll is with him

Tite Kubo >>>>> the Force


----------



## enzymeii (Sep 10, 2010)

TWF said:


> Wrong.
> 
> It shows him shaking the entire skyscraper, which you know, are multiple kilometers in length and requires tens of thousands of gee forces to do so.



I understand that it's an impressive feat, but speaking physically Aizen's durability should be at least multi-block level+.  I don't think Vader's TK alone is enough to beat Aizen, that's why I said Vader would have to mind-fuck to win (since Aizen's been shown to be vulnerable to that against Shinji).



> Do you think Aizen can beat Galen Marek.



What are his feats?


----------



## zenieth (Sep 10, 2010)

Tking a star destroyer.


----------



## BAD BD (Sep 10, 2010)

Only the movies are true canon. Deal with it.


----------



## Shoddragon (Sep 10, 2010)

BAD BD said:


> Only the movies are true canon. Deal with it.



oh god *facepalm*. negged for blatant stupidity and/or blatant trolling.


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 10, 2010)

It's fairly pointless arguing against EU, they've got enough ludicrous feats to bury any counterargument.


----------



## BAD BD (Sep 10, 2010)

But the ludicrous feats bury the EU.


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 10, 2010)

Well, that's an argument certainly.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Sep 10, 2010)

zenieth said:


> Tking a star destroyer.



Also his Force Repulse incinerates people.


----------



## Fang (Sep 10, 2010)

Whimsy said:


> It's fairly pointless arguing against EU, they've got enough ludicrous feats to bury any counterargument.



Its fairly pointless for people to bitch like its 1987 against EU when the creator himself has the guy in charge of "EU" and canon/continuity throw in elements from the novels/comics into his movies and shows for over three decades now.



BAD BD said:


> But the ludicrous feats bury the EU.



lol

Wrong.


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Sep 10, 2010)

BAD BD said:


> Only the movies are true canon Deal with it.



EU is canon BAD BD im sorry but you are just a idiot for making a stupid statement like that


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Sep 10, 2010)

BAD BD said:


> Only the movies are true canon. Deal with it.



EU is confirmed canon by Lucas. Deal with it


----------



## enzymeii (Sep 10, 2010)

zenieth said:


> Tking a star destroyer.



What do you mean TKing?  Just pulling it to the ground or squishing it like an aluminum can?


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Sep 10, 2010)

Pulling it to the ground which requires enough force to bring something that large and heavy down.


----------



## enzymeii (Sep 10, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Pulling it to the ground which requires enough force to bring something that large and heavy down.



Well, it certainly seems like gravity would be working for him in that case, though I suppose what's impressive is overpowering the ship's engines.  He could probably crush Aizen with TK from what we've seen, but then wouldn't the Hogyokyu (sp?) just regenerate him?


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Sep 10, 2010)

Vader did not do that feat that was his apprentice who was stronger than him, his best feat is shaking one of the tallest buildings on Coruscant whose skyscrapers dwarf our World's own easily while destroying most of the interior and the droids with his force scream in episode III. The durasteel was on the exterior as per Wookiepedia not interior just checked it out. 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tim5nU3DwIE[/YOUTUBE]

turn down the volume for NOOOOOO! moment.

His mindrape powers will give him the win mostly.



To give an idea of some of those buildings:


----------



## BAD BD (Sep 10, 2010)

ShikiYakumo said:


> EU is canon BAD BD im sorry but you are just a idiot for making a stupid statement like that





Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> EU is confirmed canon by Lucas. Deal with it



Lucas doesn't know a damn thing about his own series. He oks shit so he can earn more money off games and toys and the like.


----------



## Es (Sep 10, 2010)

BAD BD said:


> Lucas doesn't know a damn thing about his own series. He oks shit so he can earn more money off games and toys and the like.


dealwithit.gif


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Sep 10, 2010)

Coruscant appears first in the EU before Lucas puts that in the DVD of episode VI along with Hayden replacing Sebastian Shaw as Vader's force ghost and Lucas was the one who asked Anakin Solo to be killed off. The feat of Vader I mentioned happened in the movies as well.


----------



## Fang (Sep 10, 2010)

lol

I wonder why EU events, characters, names, like Obi-Wan talking about Quinlan Vos from the Republic comics/Clone Wars mini-series in the RoTS film or creating Bane for the founder of the Sith Lords that Sidious is a member of or why in the Special Edition version of ANH/Episode IV has the Outrunner and Dash Rendar appearing from the games into the movie 

Or how Coruscant was created by TZ or why the galaxy maps shown in AoTC confirm with stuff only shown in EU sources 

I guess he doesn't care that he felt strongly enough that he ordered Anakin Solo dying in NJO or the fact that he was the chief editor in chief of the NJO series

lol


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Sep 10, 2010)

Timothy Zahn is a good writer.


----------



## Fang (Sep 10, 2010)

As for this fight, Anakin in Labyrinth of Evil was easily calling on the Force indirectly just with getting mad in a weapon's factory (over 200 meters tall) that Obi-Wan had premotions in the Force that if he got pissed off he would easily rip apart the entire structure.


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Sep 10, 2010)

BAD BD said:


> Lucas doesn't know a damn thing about his own series. He oks shit so he can earn more money off games and toys and the like.



fail  that is all i have to say to you



Tranquil Fury said:


> Timothy Zahn is a good writer.



but yeah im agreeing Timothy Zahn is a good writer


----------



## Eternal Pein (Sep 10, 2010)

BAD BD said:


> Lucas doesn't know a damn thing about his own series. He oks shit so he can earn more money off games and toys and the like.



That still means its Canon, you didnt even disproove it right there


----------



## Stilzkin (Sep 11, 2010)

BAD BD said:


> Lucas doesn't know a damn thing about his own series. He oks shit so he can earn more money off games and toys and the like.



Kubo doesn't know shit about his own series he just writes what ever random thing pops up in his head that week even if it breaks the story, I guess we should consider the entirety of Bleach as non-canon.


This thread is ridiculous, Aizen stands no chance against Vader



> He could probably crush Aizen with TK from what we've seen, but then wouldn't the Hogyokyu (sp?) just regenerate him?



That would be a no limit fallacy, Vader should be able to crush him worse than we've seen Aizen recover from.


----------



## Endless Mike (Sep 12, 2010)

ShikiYakumo said:


> as TWF said with technology



Also there is neutronium used in some alloys.



enzymeii said:


> I understand that it's an impressive feat, but speaking physically Aizen's durability should be at least multi-block level+.  I don't think Vader's TK alone is enough to beat Aizen, that's why I said Vader would have to mind-fuck to win (since Aizen's been shown to be vulnerable to that against Shinji).



You do know that TK isn't a normal attack, it be be applied to the inside of his body to rip apart his internal organs.


----------



## Nikushimi (Sep 13, 2010)

What can even EU Vader do to Aizen? Hack him to pieces with his Lightsaber? Force Choke him? Aizen'll just regen from everything. He had his fucking chest blown open and it reformed, even with the Hougyoku removed from him.

Assuming Vader can just negate Kyouka Suigetsu's illusions with the Force (which is a baseless assumption), Aizen still fricking ripped Gin's arm off like a twig. He turns Vader into an asthmatic pretzel and nukes him with a Cero.

Aizen is a terrible troll opponent. We should wait for Ichigo to probe his limits on-panel for us before we decide to go putting him in any versus threads.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Sep 13, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> What can even EU Vader do to Aizen? Hack him to pieces with his Lightsaber? Force Choke him? Aizen'll just regen from everything. He had his fucking chest blown open and it reformed, even with the Hougyoku removed from him.
> 
> Assuming Vader can just negate Kyouka Suigetsu's illusions with the Force (which is a baseless assumption), Aizen still fricking ripped Gin's arm off like a twig. He turns Vader into an asthmatic pretzel and nukes him with a Cero.
> 
> Aizen is a terrible troll opponent. We should wait for Ichigo to probe his limits on-panel for us before we decide to go putting him in any versus threads.





You ain't serious with that? Aizen gets mindraped within a femtosecond and gets crushed beyond belief or he slices Aizen's head off with his lightsaber which can cut even the toughest steel in Star Wars.


----------



## Narcissus (Sep 13, 2010)

Regenerating a hole in your chest is not the same as regenerating an entire limb, or having one's head cut off.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Sep 13, 2010)

He's probably refering to the cellular regeneration not sure if TK crush or choke will work on that but a Lightsaber will. I really don't see how someone like Vader who has armor made of durasteel(300,000x more durable than steel), has a blade of heated plasma, TK mastery to disarm or immobilise, precognition, force guided reflexes, powerful offensive telepathy and 20 years under Darth Sidious for force mastery will lose. He fought Starkiller who could TK Star destroyers and gave him a fight taking force lightning, TK blasts, thrown machinery, a lightsaber slash and even survived his suicide explosion.

Plus he's 3/4 machine so he might not even have organic senses for KS to manipulate. Regardless precog makes Aizen's illusions useless.


----------



## Fang (Sep 13, 2010)

He doesn't really use his real eyes for vision either which way in any case since the optics and sensors built into his helmet and mask as well as the Force make up for that handicap.

Also not only did he survive Galen's suicide blast but prior to that was pile-drived through Galen's TK with a shield generator dropping him through most of the Death's Star command tower.


----------



## Thor (Sep 13, 2010)

From what I know about the movies Aizen should stop Vader, but I've seen on some sites that Vader can solo DBZ.


----------



## Fang (Sep 13, 2010)

Vader wouldn't solo DBZ.


----------



## Stilzkin (Sep 13, 2010)

TWF said:


> Vader wouldn't solo DBZ.



why can't he just mindfuck or tk crush them? He has lightspeed reflexes doesn't he?


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Sep 13, 2010)

He does?


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Sep 13, 2010)

Does he mean this:



> Originally Posted by Coruscant Nights
> "I wouldn't know. I do know, however, ", I-Five said, "that you're much better with that sword than you think you are. "
> 
> Jax glanced down at the weapon, saw his distorted reflection looking back at him from the blade's surface. "Yeah? How do you know th---?"
> ...



This was posted in another thread by CD. Jax Pavan is a Jedi Knight whose below Vader but is'nt this more a reflexive/passive action? I.e the force guiding him? Because I don't think Vader can move at lightspeed willingly.


----------



## Fang (Sep 13, 2010)

that's precog


----------



## SHM (Sep 13, 2010)

Narcissus said:


> Regenerating a hole in your chest is not the same as regenerating an entire limb, or having one's head cut off.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Condom Aizen regenerate from being cut in half?


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Sep 13, 2010)

SHM said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Condom Aizen regenerate from being cut in half?



i don't remember him being cut in half for some reason


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 13, 2010)

fly butterfly man, fly


----------



## Narcissus (Sep 13, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> He's probably refering to the cellular regeneration



I'm well aware of what he's talking about. But Gin's cellular poison only put a hole in Aizen's chest; it didn't even extend to his entire body. Regenerating from that is not the same as having to regenerate fom having his head cut off.



Thor Odinson said:


> but I've seen on some sites that Vader can solo DBZ.



It was argued here that he wouldn't even defeat Goku.



SHM said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Condom Aizen regenerate from being cut in half?



You'll have to show me this, because I only remember him with a hole in his chest.


----------



## Lord Stark (Sep 13, 2010)

Solo DBZ? Nah
now the HST on the other hand


----------



## paulatreides0 (Sep 13, 2010)

Niku, your argument is essentially:



Nikushimi said:


> -Hack him to pieces with his Lightsaber?
> -Aizen'll just regen from everything.



Do you know what scar tissue is? Essentially, when you expose cells or tissue to a flame they tend to die. That tissue never regenerates. Ever. This can be done with simple flames that burn at temperatures only a fraction of the temperature of plasma....

In other words, no, Aizen would _not_ be able to regen from having his cells turned into pure scar tissue, unless he has feats of regenerating tissue harmed during a large, very, very hot fire.

There also _is_ a technical term for this, but I can't recall it at the moment.



Nikushimi said:


> He had his fucking chest blown open and it reformed, even with the Hougyoku removed from him.



Now, what would happen if you removed his head?



SHM said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Condom Aizen regenerate from being cut in half?



Whether this is true or not, to quote myself



			
				Myself said:
			
		

> Do you know what scar tissue is? Essentially, when you expose cells or tissue to a flame they tend to die. That tissue never regenerates. Ever. This can be done with simple flames that burn at temperatures only a fraction of the temperature of plasma....
> 
> In other words, no, Aizen would _not_ be able to regen from having his cells turned into pure scar tissue, unless he has feats of regenerating tissue harmed during a large, very, very hot fire.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Sep 14, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Cauterization



Oh, yes. Thanks EM.


----------



## Lucifeller (Sep 14, 2010)

Zaru said:


> Unless movie vader's tk gets proportionally stronger the closer his target is, you have a point, otherwise no. And I don't remember him choking anyone that actually has a defense or superhuman durability against that. IN THE MOVIES.



There's a giant flaw in your reasoning there. Namely, the simple fact that some parts of the human body CANNOT be trained or toughened up, and thus remain vulnerable.

Like your crotch. Or say... your windpipe.

That's why I can't help but lol when somebody mentions 'superhuman durability' against a move that specifically targets a body part whose endurance CANNOT be trained up.


----------



## Zaru (Sep 14, 2010)

Lucifeller said:


> That's why I can't help but lol when somebody mentions 'superhuman durability' against a move that specifically targets a body part whose endurance CANNOT be trained up.



Did you just seriously claim Aizen's throat is as vulnerable as a normal human being's throat, because "he can't train it"?

If you're talking about stuff like the brain or other inner organs, okay. Those remain vulnerable, if an attack can bypass the outer layers.

But Aizen's balls would beat the shit out of you, and it wouldn't look funny.


----------



## Lucifeller (Sep 15, 2010)

What the hell? I can tell you for a fact that people like Fedor Emelianenko could twist me into a painful pretzel without breaking a sweat - but their windpipe would still be crushed like a tin can if I hit it.

The throat is a FRAGILE spot. It is an universal weak spot for even the toughest, most well-trained person. Aizen can magically fart and belch all he wants, but he's still going to get choked to death here. That's the problem with having a human body - the human body's basic weaknesses also apply. You get crotched and unless you are an eunuch it's gonna hurt (remember Goro in the Mortal Kombat movie? Cage actually made him double over in pain after beating him in the face had no effect whatsoever at all by punching him in the balls - and Goro is a four-armed, 9 feet tall half-dragon monstrosity, not a human), if you get your throat caved in, breathing is going to be the biggest of your problems, and if your eyes get poked out, you won't see shit anymore (and yes, Shinigami CAN go blind. Hell, Shinigami can also have TBC, just look at Ukitake - and Shunsui mentioned at least once that Nanao crotched him for being a perv, and that it hurt. A lot).

There's evidence that Shinigami bodies still have the human body's weakness and no evidence that they are immune to them. They are just really tough compared to normal human bodies, but when it comes to naturally vulnerable areas, well... I'll want proof that they are tougher than humans there, as well. Until then, I'm going to apply a modicum of common sense and assume that if Shinigami can be blind, sick et cetera, they can also be crotched, have their trachea crushed and have their eyes gouged out.


----------



## Zaru (Sep 15, 2010)

Ichigo's throat was grabbed at high speed while crushing through some meters of rock by a guy that blows holes into humans just by walking past them, and he was fine.
It's a weaker point for sure, but not "normal human" weak.

Eyes are a weakness though. As proven when Kenpachi aimed for Nnoitra's eye.


----------



## Akatora (Sep 15, 2010)

Well regarding getting tougher weak points we had urahara in TBTP where Hioyri kicked him in the balls yet he was unfaced and her foot hurt


granted it's urahara so he culd have metal boxes on or somethnig


----------



## Lina Inverse (Sep 15, 2010)

Why are we talking about throats and balls again?


----------



## Zaru (Sep 15, 2010)

Good question, since it was related to movie vader's feats although EU is allowed here


----------



## Fang (Sep 15, 2010)




----------



## Estrecca (Sep 15, 2010)

Sazabi24 said:


> Vader casually crushes durasteel (the stuff that is 300,000 times stronger than steel)



Kindly provide a source for this bizarre statement and please tell me that you aren't simply parroting an unsourced statement in Wookieepedia that I could replace right this minute, since I have access to information that outright contradicts the assertion (such as a pissed baseline strength woman bending a durasteel rod with a couple of strikes).

Now, I know that KJA sucks and we all hate him for ruining Dune and all that, but if you are going to contradict official information you better be ready to back your facts with rock solid evidence.


----------



## Fang (Sep 15, 2010)

Are we talking about the same writer who had a Force User stripped of all her powers and connection to it fly a tie-fighter without a vac suit or life support for several minutes before breaking out of orbit?

Or when normal humans can stand a few feet from lava and sulfurous fumes and not suffer any effects at all? 

Anyways I always knew that durasteel is superior to regular steel but never how much "more" or to what degree.


----------



## Estrecca (Sep 15, 2010)

TWF said:


> Are we talking about the same writer who had a Force User stripped of all her powers and connection to it fly a tie-fighter without a vac suit or life support for several minutes before breaking out of orbit?
> 
> Or when normal humans can stand a few feet from lava and sulfurous fumes and not suffer any effects at all?
> 
> Anyways I always knew that durasteel is superior to regular steel but never how much "more" or to what degree.



Come on. You can do better than this and you know it. 

Pointing the flaws (real or imagined) of an official author as a way of arguing against something he wrote without presenting any actual, valid counter-evidence is a textbook ad-hominem.

Now, don't take me wrong, I have no issues with durasteel being an improvement over conventional materials. But claiming that it is FIVE orders of magnitude better... now, that's one damn hefty claim that requires backing.


----------



## Fang (Sep 15, 2010)

I didn't say anything like that I'm just adding further context that KJA is a hack.


----------

