# Itachi vs. the Sannin



## trance (Nov 10, 2014)

Location: Sannin Battleground

Intel: Full

Distance: 40m

Mindset: IC but with intent to kil

Rules: Itachi has Raikagenaut level chakra. He is healthy.


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## Ersa (Nov 10, 2014)

So basically Prime Itachi with massive stamina? 

GG.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 10, 2014)

With raikage level chakra itachi will just camp in v4 and steam roll them 40meters isn't large enough to escape.


You might as well just  made this edo itachi.


None of the saniin are fast enough to dodge totsuka or Amaterasu so they should lose the moment itachi erects susano.


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## ARGUS (Nov 10, 2014)

might as well make this edo itachi, however no matter how much stamina itachi has, he would still suffer from the drawbacks of overusing his MS


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## Dominus (Nov 10, 2014)

I don't think this is like Edo Itachi because Edo Itachi has the same amount chakra he had when was alive, it just replenishes after it's used up. Here Itachi has much greater chakra reserves so his techniques should be on a higher level.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 10, 2014)

I don't think raikage level stamina = Edo Itachi.

Edo Itachi's chakra pool is the same as sick Itachi's, but it regenerates quickly, so he can fight for longer periods of time.

With Raikage level chakra, he can also spam more than he usually can, which results in Sannin dying horribly and pretty quickly.

edit : 



Authoritah said:


> I don't think this is like Edo Itachi because Edo Itachi has the same amount chakra he had when was alive, it just replenishes after it's used up. Here Itachi has much greater chakra reserves so his techniques should be on a higher level.



Oh fuck beat me to it.


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## Mercurial (Nov 10, 2014)

Itachi wins this with ease. Full Susanoo + Totsuka spam.


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## Itachі (Nov 10, 2014)

Is Orochimaru able to summon the Edo Hokage without prep in this? If so then the Sannin win, if not, then Itachi stomps them all. He outlasts all of them with that level of Chakra and his techniques will be more powerful.


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## Vagrant Tom (Nov 10, 2014)

What about frog song? If the 3 sannin can avoid and delay Itachi long enough Jiraiya can get the frog song off and Itachi will be down. Afterall, Tayuya's genjutsu was proven to work.


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## Bonly (Nov 10, 2014)

Full knowledge? Orochi puts up a gate to block LoS then let his Edo Kages solo


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## Turrin (Nov 10, 2014)

Edo Kage proceed to rape.


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## JuicyG (Nov 10, 2014)

No restriction on Edo Kage, and with full knowledge means there is no limit to the ass beating Itachi now receives


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## Itachі (Nov 10, 2014)

ET needs prep though and OP hasn't specified. From 40 metres Orochimaru has a chance of summoning the Edo Hokage if he has them.


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## Bonly (Nov 10, 2014)

Itachі said:


> ET needs prep though and OP hasn't specified. From 40 metres Orochimaru has a chance of summoning the Edo Hokage if he has them.



OP doesn't have to specify that prep is allowed for ET, well unless you also think Jiraiya loses frogs, Tsunade loses her slug, Itachi loses his crows and Orochi loses ET as well as snake due to no prep.


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## JuicyG (Nov 10, 2014)

Jiraiya summons boss toad, they jump away from Itachi (200 meters-300 meters). Oro summons Aoda, Jiraiya & Oro gets inside of him and burrows under the ground to summons Edo Kages, and to prep frog song. Itachi isnt a sensor, he will not know that they are underneath the Earth

If its not restricted in OP, then all things go.


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## Itachі (Nov 10, 2014)

Bonly said:


> OP doesn't have to specify that prep is allowed for ET, well unless you also think Jiraiya loses frogs, Tsunade loses her slug, Itachi loses his crows and Orochi loses ET as well as snake due to no prep.



It's because they only have to summon those creatures. Orochimaru has to have a sacrifice.


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## Bonly (Nov 10, 2014)

Itachі said:


> It's because they only have to summon those creatures. Orochimaru has to have a sacrifice.



With Naruto we've seen that he first needed to get the scroll and then sign it before he could use it so the same should apply for other normal animal summonings. So just as Orochi has to get the DNA and all that crap, people still need to first find the scroll and sign it before they can summon. So if you ignore the prep for the others because they already did it so they can just clap their hands(or any of the other methods) then why not ignore the prep Edo takes if the user already did the prep to where they can just do some handseals or clap their hands?


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## Nurito (Nov 10, 2014)

Oro doesn't have prep here, does he? so how is he using ET again?

Itachi spams Amaterasu while camping inside Susano'o gg.


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## Itachі (Nov 10, 2014)

Bonly said:


> With Naruto we've seen that he first needed to get the scroll and then sign it before he could use it so the same should apply for other normal animal summonings. So just as Orochi has to get the DNA and all that crap, people still need to first find the scroll and sign it before they can summon. So if you ignore the prep for the others because they already did it so they can just clap their hands(or any of the other methods) then why not ignore the prep Edo takes if the user already did the prep to where they can just do some handseals or clap their hands?



The difference is, the summoning contracts are a one time thing, you sign them once and you get the summon permanently.

I did forget about Orochimaru being able to use ET like that in Part 1 though, if you're able to use it without sacrificing someone on the spot then why'd he do it in Part 2?


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## JuicyG (Nov 10, 2014)

Nurito said:


> Oro doesn't have prep here, does he? so how is he using ET again?
> 
> Itachi spams Amaterasu while camping inside Susano'o gg.




Oro can simply use Aoda to burrow himself under the ground the summon Edo Kages. Brings Jiraiya with him to prep for Frog Song and Tsunade to support once they reach the ground. Itachi has no way of stopping them once they are borrowing through the earth.


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## Bonly (Nov 10, 2014)

Itachі said:


> The difference is, the summoning contracts are a one time thing, you sign them once and you get the summon permanently.



But that shouldn't  matter as the same can be said for Edo. Once you do the prep you can permanently use the same Edo unless it's soul gets taken away.



> I did forget about Orochimaru being able to use ET like that in Part 1 though, if you're able to use it without sacrificing someone on the spot then why'd he do it in Part 2?



In part two Orochi had to use sacrifices on the spot because the souls he once(Hashi+Tobi) had bound were taken away by Hiruzen's Shiki Fūjin. On the other hand if Orochi already did the prep for them then he wouldn't need to find a sacrifice on the spot to use Edo, he'd just bring the coffins to his location just like he did in part one as well as Kabuto did when he met Obito before the war.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 10, 2014)

Vagrant Tom said:


> What about frog song? If the 3 sannin can avoid and delay Itachi long enough Jiraiya can get the frog song off and Itachi will be down. Afterall, Tayuya's genjutsu was proven to work.



It was also shown that Itachi knows how to defeat sound genjutsu as well, with another Sharingan available to team up with. He can make a clone to mimic the strategy, no?​


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Nov 10, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> With raikage level chakra itachi will just camp in v4 and steam roll them 40meters isn't large enough to escape.
> 
> 
> You might as well just  made this edo itachi.
> ...



SM Jiraiya is more then fast to dodge amatarasu and totsuka. And Orochimaru can tank amatarasu and just just oral rebirth.

Also this is debatable but if Tsunade can heal her  self after being cut in half by madara im pretty sure she has something to counter amatarasu. I mean she is the world strongest medical ninja.

Also I love how you try to buff itachi lol everyone knows regular "healthy" itachi wouldn't stand a chance against the saninn SM jiraiya alone has a very good shot of killing him


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## Icegaze (Nov 10, 2014)

@transcendent 
jiraiya in any form gets hit by amaterasu he doesnt have the speed to get out of itachi LoS so he gets killed 
tsunade healing is horrendously trolled by something which defeated cerebus


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## JuicyG (Nov 10, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> @transcendent
> jiraiya in any form gets hit by amaterasu he doesnt have the speed to get out of itachi LoS so he gets killed
> tsunade healing is horrendously trolled by something which defeated cerebus



Jiraiya doesnt have to dodge as long as he uses the huge Odama Rasengan he did against Pain, and use it as a shield and rush towards Itachi blocking any Amaterasu or genjutsu attempts.

Besides that, going against 3 sannin with ET means Itachi loses no diff

Orochimaru uses Aoda to burrow himself and jiraiya in the ground to prep for forg song and ET


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## Nikushimi (Nov 10, 2014)

Trance said:


> Rules: Itachi has Raikagenaut level chakra. He is healthy.



Bijuu-level Shunshin + Totsuka Blade?

Good fucking game.

The Sannin get massacred.


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## JuicyG (Nov 10, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Bijuu-level Shunshin + Totsuka Blade?
> 
> Good fucking game.
> 
> The Sannin get massacred.




Itachi isnt beating Edo Kages


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## Nikushimi (Nov 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Itachi isnt beating Edo Kages



What Edo Kages? He's fighting the Sannin.

And the four Edo Kage would get raped by Itachi with Raikage-level chakra.


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## Trojan (Nov 10, 2014)

anyone of the Sannin would solo.

base Jiraiya wins high difficult.
SM Jiraiya wins mid difficult.
Tsunade wins high difficult.
Oro with ET fodderstomps low difficult.
Oro with Zetsu wins mid difficult.
Oro before in part 1 loses low difficult.

All together take a shit in itachi's mouth.


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## Itachі (Nov 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> anyone of the Sannin would solo.
> base Jiraiya wins high difficult.
> Oro with Zetsu wins mid difficult.



Please explain these.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> anyone of the Sannin would solo.
> 
> base Jiraiya wins high difficult.
> SM Jiraiya wins mid difficult.
> ...




13 year old Itachi > 14 year old Minato u mad ?


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## JuicyG (Nov 10, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> * four Edo Kage would get raped by Itachi with Raikage-level chakra*.




End Thread.

Niku is starting to troll


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## the_symbol_of_rebirth (Nov 10, 2014)

Orochimaru summons 2nd 3th and 4th and let them wrek Itachi while he sits back. No Jiraiya and Tsnuade needed.


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## Trojan (Nov 10, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Please explain these.



about Jiraiya, itachi admitted his inferiority already so it's pointless. 

as for Oro, he gets all the abilities from the one he's possessing. He has Hashirama's power
and all 5 elements and yin and yang because of that. His chakra and power overall should be stronger than how he was


Grimmjowsensei said:


> 13 year old Itachi > 14 year old Minato u mad ?



Nah, 14 years old Minato > Tobirama > itachi. 
(until the full translation comes out, I'll enjoy myself with this )


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## Itachі (Nov 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> about Jiraiya, itachi admitted his inferiority already so it's pointless.



Hussain, come the fuck on. I can't believe how stubborn you are regarding this. Black Zetsu, Kaguya's will, said that Itachi was invincible. Is that true? You can't pick and choose what ridiculous things you'll believe, Itachi was trying to keep up appearances, after all, he'd just told Kisame to not continue fighting the Jonin, left the Jonin alive when he easily could have slaughtered all of them, left Naruto _and_ told Kisame to leave Jiraiya. You seriously think Base Jiraiya could defeat both Itachi and Kisame?



> as for Oro, he gets all the abilities from the one he's possessing. He has Hashirama's power
> and all 5 elements and yin and yang because of that. His chakra and power overall should be stronger than how he was



That doesn't mean he can use the power, he hasn't had any time to train or learn. After all, he was still using Snake Jutsu against the Shinju branches.


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## Trojan (Nov 10, 2014)

1- It's itachi's admission, I know he knows about himself more than the others. During those years nothing suggested otherwise, actually it supported by the manga itself in so many cases. Throughout the manga, SM users have ALWAYS been presented to be superior to the MS users. 

and no, he told Kisame to take Kakashi had Gai not come to stop them. He was trying to kill Kurnai and kidnap Naruto, he even told Sasuke to kill Naruto. 

anyway. Even the 3rd Databook presented them as equal with both having 35.5, and the databook does not take into account SM. You can see the notes here


Both died in the same arc and passed down their most powerful jutsus to Naruto and Sasuke. Guess what?
It was also stated that SM Naruto > MS Sasuke. 
and just so we don't get to the old argument again about Zetsu's statement, Naruto's feats with SM is overall superior to that of MS Sasuke. 

SM Hashirama > EMS Madara
SM Naruto > MS Sasuke
SM Kabuto > itachi/early EMS Sasuke.
Minato > Obito
Ashura > Indra

...etc
why would Jiraiya be the only exception is beyond me.  
even though Kishi did make him stronger as well, and he did make him fight someone who's 2 tiers above itachi (Pain). 


Jiraiya also has all sort of counters to itachi's abilities.

his hair, sealing jutsu, Rassengan, Kwarimi > Amatersu.
the swamp > Susanoo. 
he does have the sensing barrier and all sort of things.

Not to mention itachi's baby's level chakra, and the fact that he's only around Hebi Sasuke level or a bit more at most. U_U



> That doesn't mean he can use the power, he hasn't had any time to train or learn. After all, he was still using Snake Jutsu against the Shinju branches.



Obviously it does mean that. Why would he want to take Sasuke's body if he can't use his abilities? 
even the Databook gave him all the abilities that Zetsu has like the 5 elements + Yin & yang. U_U


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## JuicyG (Nov 10, 2014)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*Hussian actually provided an excellent post. I want to see someone debate with his posts and examples thoroughly. *


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## Itachі (Nov 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> 1- It's itachi's admission, I know he knows about himself more than the others. During those years nothing suggested otherwise, actually it supported by the manga itself in so many cases. Throughout the manga, SM users have ALWAYS been presented to be superior to the MS users.



The fact that it was Itachi who said it doesn't counter anything I said. He still was pretending. Yeah, that's because one with arguably the most versatile SM was defeated by an MS user and his sidekick, right?



> and no, he told Kisame to take Kakashi had Gai not come to stop them. He was trying to kill Kurnai and kidnap Naruto, he even told Sasuke to kill Naruto.



That doesn't change the fact that Itachi told Kisame to leave when he could have killed all of them. Please, if he was trying to kill Kurenai or kidnap Naruto he definitely would have. Explain why Itachi didn't kill Kurenai after she was in her Genjutsu, explain why Itachi took his sweet ass time looking for Naruto?



> anyway. Even the 3rd Databook presented them as equal with both having 35.5, and the databook does not take into account SM. You can see the notes here



>Databook Stats



Stats are irrelevant, do you think that Kishi or a member of Shonen Jump actually tries to accurately compile them? 

Anyway, if those are the stats then how would Jiraiya win in base? Your precious Databook says that they are equal.



> Both died in the same arc and passed down their most powerful jutsus to Naruto and Sasuke. Guess what?
> It was also stated that SM Naruto > MS Sasuke.
> and just so we don't get to the old argument again about Zetsu's statement, Naruto's feats with SM is overall superior to that of MS Sasuke.



SM Naruto is more powerful than MS Sasuke but that has nothing to do with this. 



> Jiraiya also has all sort of counters to itachi's abilities.
> 
> his hair, sealing jutsu, Rassengan, Kwarimi > Amatersu.
> the swamp > Susanoo.
> ...



Hair is burned by Amaterasu, his sealing Jutsu is not useful at all in a real battle situation, Rasengan isn't a counter, it's an attack, every Konoha Shinobi has Kawarimi..

Even if the Susano'o gets caught in Yomi Numa, Itachi's still able to use Totsuka. 

Itachi's far superior to Hebi Sasuke. 



> Obviously it does mean that. Why would he want to take Sasuke's body if he can't use his abilities?
> even the Databook gave him all the abilities that Zetsu has like the 5 elements + Yin & yang. U_U



No, I'm saying that he won't know how to use them. He has the abilities, but he doesn't have the knowledge on how to utilise the Jutsu that Zetsu has.


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## Hachibi (Nov 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> 1- It's itachi's admission, I know he knows about himself more than the others. During those years nothing suggested otherwise, actually it supported by the manga itself in so many cases. Throughout the manga, SM users have ALWAYS been presented to be superior to the MS users.



Wrong as fuck.



> and no, he told Kisame to take Kakashi had Gai not come to stop them.



When?



> He was trying to kill Kurnai and kidnap Naruto







> he even told Sasuke to kill Naruto.



Implying he knew that Naruto was Sasuke's best friend.



> anyway. Even the 3rd Databook presented them as equal with both having 35.5, and the databook does not take into account SM. You can see the notes here



You know that the DB isn't made by Kishi himself right?
Also lolwiki




> It was also stated that SM Naruto > MS Sasuke.



You mean when Sasuke didn't have Susano?



> and just so we don't get to the old argument again about Zetsu's statement, Naruto's feats with SM is overall superior to that of MS Sasuke.



War-arc SM Naruto? Yes. Pain-arc SM Naruto? lolnope.




> SM Naruto=MS Sasuke



Fixed



> SM Kabuto <<<< itachi/early EMS Sasuke.



Fixed



> Adult Minato > Teen Obito



Fixed



> Ashura > Indra



Since when?




> why would Jiraiya be the only exception is beyond me.
> even though Kishi did make him stronger as well, and he did make him fight someone who's 2 tiers above itachi (Pain).



And got killed with ease by Pain, who was restricted because he was in his own village.





> his hair, sealing jutsu, Rassengan, Kwarimi > Amatersu.







> the swamp > Susanoo.



Only thing who's valide



> Not to mention itachi's baby's level chakra, and the fact that he's only around Hebi Sasuke level or a bit more at most. U_U





Firstly, he was toying with Sauce. Secondly, Itachi outlasted Hebi Sasuke, who's outlasted Deidara and Deidara fought against Gaara for a long time.



> even the Databook gave him all the abilities that Zetsu has like the 5 elements + Yin & yang. U_U



LolDB


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 10, 2014)

That moment when people think base jiraiya is beating ms itachi with raikage level chakra   ck



Wtf is the point anymore surley theres no convincing or helping anyone who believes that


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 11, 2014)

Hussain said:


> 1- It's itachi's admission, I know he knows about himself more than the others. During those years nothing suggested otherwise, actually it supported by the manga itself in so many cases. Throughout the manga, SM users have ALWAYS been presented to be superior to the MS users.



Itachi = Jiraiya thing again ? 
Jesus. Let the dead debate stay dead.



> and no, he told Kisame to take Kakashi had Gai not come to stop them.


He had to play the part of the villain. 


> He was trying to kill Kurnai


He wasn't, because if he was Kurenai would be dead.



> and kidnap Naruto,


That is also wrong, after he retreated he said "Naruto isn't ready." Obito and the databook confirmed that Itachi's reason for being in Konoha had nothing to do with Naruto as well. 
Do you even read the manga ? :ignoramus



> he even told Sasuke to kill Naruto.


scans ? 



> anyway. Even the 3rd Databook presented them as equal with both having 35.5, and the databook does not take into account SM. You can see the notes here


Stat totals are meaningless. Asuma has more than Deidara, Kakuzu, Gaara, Sasuke etc.

Itachi has 5 tier 5's whereas Jiraiya has only 2. 5 roof tiers vs 2 is a decisive sign of superiority.
Databook also doesn't take Sharingan into account either.




> Both died in the same arc and passed down their most powerful jutsus to Naruto and Sasuke. Guess what?


Dying in the same arc isn't an indication of anything. Thats just retarded.
Also Jiraiya didn't pass down anything to Naruto.



> It was also stated that SM Naruto > MS Sasuke.
> and just so we don't get to the old argument again about Zetsu's statement, Naruto's feats with SM is overall superior to that of MS Sasuke.



When Zetsu made the comment "Naruto > Sasuke" was when Naruto had fully mastered his SM. Sasuke wasn't even close to the mastering his MS @ that point.

It was implied that Sasuke and Naruto were equal at the end of the Kage summit arc.



> SM Hashirama > EMS Madara
> SM Naruto > MS Sasuke
> SM Kabuto > itachi/early EMS Sasuke.
> Minato > Obito
> Ashura > Indra


You are only wrong about Kabuto being > Itachi.
You are right with the others, but thats more of an issue of "good guy > bad guy" and not anything else.



> why would Jiraiya be the only exception is beyond me.


Because there are sometimes exceptions to a rule ?(eventhough there is no rule here) And also because Itachi is stronger by hype, portrayal and feats.



> even though Kishi did make him stronger as well, and he did make him fight someone who's 2 tiers above itachi (Pain).


Pain and Itachi are in the same tier, and Jiraiya got stomped by Pain and Pain didn't even use his full power.
Guess who went into Itachi's bottle ? Pain's creator and superior. I guess thats a small detail that you overlooked huh 




> Jiraiya also has all sort of counters to itachi's abilities.
> 
> his hair, sealing jutsu, Rassengan, Kwarimi > Amatersu.


Do you have any evidence that they'll negate Amaterasu ?


> the swamp > Susanoo.


Scans for this ? 


> he does have the sensing barrier and all sort of things.


And it helps with what ? 



> Not to mention itachi's baby's level chakra, and the fact that he's only around Hebi Sasuke level or a bit more at most. U_U


We know what Itachi can do with his baby level chakra, and surely Jiraiya isn't surviving the onslaught.

Also, Hebi Sasuke > Oro > Jiriaya.




> Obviously it does mean that. Why would he want to take Sasuke's body if he can't use his abilities?
> even the Databook gave him all the abilities that Zetsu has like the 5 elements + Yin & yang. U_U


Elemental charts are redundant.



JuicyG said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*Hussian actually provided an excellent post. I want to see someone debate with his posts and examples thoroughly. *



If you think thats an excellent post, then you'll never be satisfied with anyone elses post on the matter. Mostly because it is basically admitting that you don't read the manga considering that there are shit ton of manga contradictory and questionable statements in there.


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Nov 11, 2014)

lol this whole thread is pointless. You Itachi wankers know he can't take on the 3 legendary sanin hell itach ican't even kill all 3 of them 1 on 1....

And then you give him some stupid power up??

Ok how about this lets give Jiraiya Raikagenaut chakra and make him go against kisame, itachi,  and kakazu....

J man will rape them...

my point is whats the point of giving itachi this crazy imaginary power up? its just absurd. 

And FYI for ppl saying Jiraiya can't dodge Amatarasu YES he can. Go rewatch the manga SM jiraiya is MORE then fast enough.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 11, 2014)

Transcendent Shinobi said:


> lol this whole thread is pointless. You Itachi wankers know he can't take on the 3 legendary sanin hell itach ican't even kill all 3 of them 1 on 1....
> 
> And then you give him some stupid power up??
> 
> ...



I was gonna reply to you @ first but then I saw your claim that Jiraiya can dodge Amaterasu. 

And you are way too hostile man. Keep it down a bit.


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Nov 11, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I was gonna reply to you @ first but then I saw your claim that *Jiraiya can dodge Amaterasu*.
> 
> And you are way too hostile man. Keep it down a bit.



Well he can. Prove me other wise with facts please. 

Also how am I being hostile? Have I cursed, made racist comments, made sexist comments, claimed that you are a bad person for no reason, insulted your mother or place of origin? No I have not. I am merely stating my opinion


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## Ersa (Nov 11, 2014)

Jiraiya couldn't dodge base Gai kick let alone Amaterasu.

ck


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 11, 2014)

Transcendent Shinobi said:


> Well he can. Prove me other wise with facts please.


You made the claim that he can. Burden is on you.

The fastest attack Jiraiya dodged was probably Konan's paper shuriken. 
To be able to prove that he can dodge amaterasu, you have to either show me a panel of Jiraiya reaching V2 A levels of speed, or dodging something as fast as Amaterasu.
Either one of them is fine.



> Also how am I being hostile? Have I cursed, made racist comments, made sexist comments, claimed that you are a bad person for no reason, insulted your mother or place of origin? No I have not. I am merely stating my opinion



Starting your post with "you Itachi wankers" shows hostility.


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## Itachі (Nov 11, 2014)

Transcendent Shinobi said:


> Well he can. Prove me other wise with facts please.



You're the one that's supposed to provide evidence for your claim, please do.


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Nov 11, 2014)

Itachі said:


> You're the one that's supposed to provide evidence for your claim, please do.



I searched thoroughly and I couldn't find a panel of SM Jiraiya dodging that fast however...

Please explain to me how Naruto can instantaneously travel 200-250 meters in less then a second in SM when he was protecting tsunade? Which is more then fast enough to dodge amatarasu.

And please don't say Ohh but Naruto is stronger then Jiraiya in SM...No he wasn't he just could hold it longer then J man.

In this panel you can judge the distance between naruto and pain yourself. Id say its about 400 meters maybe even more.
actually

Im also taking in the fact that Asura path charged Tsunade and she was about half way between Pain and Naruto.

actually

And then Naruto In SM proceeds to kill one of the paths so fast Pain a Rinnegan user can't even react....

actually
Is this argument the best ever? No I will admit it. But at least its something. You can't deny SM gives you super enhanced speed. As fast as FTG? No. But fast enough to dodge amatarasu.


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## JuicyG (Nov 11, 2014)

Sannin wins.

Orochimaru uses Aoda to burrow himself and Jiraiya underground to prep ET and frog song. Tsunade isnt needed

Sannin win no diff


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 11, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Sannin wins.
> 
> Orochimaru uses Aoda to burrow himself and Jiraiya underground to prep ET and frog song. Tsunade isnt needed
> 
> Sannin win no diff



Because itachi will just stand there while orochimaru summons aoda.


Because itachi can't genjutsu aoda.


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## JuicyG (Nov 11, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Because itachi will just stand there while orochimaru summons aoda.
> 
> 
> Because itachi can't genjutsu aoda.




Sannin are the Sannin

Orochimaru could also just throw up 3 gates to block LOS then summon Aoda, and proceed to do the latter.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 11, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Sannin are the Sannin
> 
> Orochimaru could also just throw up 3 gates to block LOS then summon Aoda, and proceed to do the latter.



Itachi is itachi ck


With raikage level chakra itachi makes karsu and regular bushins.

The karsu bushins flies over the gates

And the 2 itachi's shushin around the gates and catch aoda in the genjutsu before he borrows.


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## JuicyG (Nov 11, 2014)

Raikage chakra doesnt make Itachi move with V2 speed lmao

Gates go up and Aoda is summoned before Itachi gets to them.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 11, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Raikage chakra doesnt make Itachi move with V2 speed lmao
> 
> Gates go up and Aoda is summoned before Itachi gets to them.



i never said it did 


itachi has a fast enough shushin to go around the gates while there being summoned, you make it seem like ororchimaru gates is fast or something???




itachi with superior hand seal speed creates the clones way before oro makes his gates  and ic itachi starts with a clone 9/10 times out of ten anyways.



itachi shushin >>>>>> ororchimaru using 2 jutsu and having his snake borrow under ground speed wise


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## JuicyG (Nov 11, 2014)

U make it sound like summoning Aoda takes minutes


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## JuicyG (Nov 11, 2014)

actually

Look at the distance it would put between them


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 11, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> U make it sound like summoning Aoda takes minutes




you make it sound as if itachi has a slow shushin or as if orochimaru can summon aoda and have him borrow, faster then itachi can shushin?


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## Itachі (Nov 12, 2014)

Transcendent Shinobi said:


> I searched thoroughly and I couldn't find a panel of SM Jiraiya dodging that fast however...
> 
> Please explain to me how Naruto can instantaneously travel 200-250 meters in less then a second in SM when he was protecting tsunade? Which is more then fast enough to dodge amatarasu.
> 
> ...



We don't know that it only took a second. Naruto could have jumped off while Asura started going to Tsunade, Naruto could have been thrown by Gamabunta. Also, running in a straight line or jumping isn't the same as dodging something.


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## JuicyG (Nov 12, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> you make it sound as if itachi has a slow shushin or as if orochimaru can summon aoda and have him borrow, faster then itachi can shushin?




It would take Itachi longer to get around these gates, figure out what Orochimaru even has planned and then stop them from borrowing underground. Itachi is not a mind reader, and your acting like this is a blood lusted Itachi whose trying to not waste a second on killing them.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 12, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> It would take Itachi longer to get around these gates, figure out what Orochimaru even has planned and then stop them from borrowing underground. Itachi is not a mind reader, and your acting like this is a blood lusted Itachi whose trying to not waste a second on killing them.



You think It would take itachi longer to get around the gates then it would take orochimaru to summon a boss summon and have it swallow him and jiraiaya and borrow under ground ? 


Do you know the gets are a summoning jutsu and orochimaru has to hold the seal and jutsu in place until all three are summoned?

This is a full knowledge fight, meaning itachi knows about frog song and knows he's out numbered, he isn't giving them any breathing room in this fight.


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## JuicyG (Nov 12, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> You think It would take itachi longer to get around the gates then it would take orochimaru to summon a boss summon and have it swallow him and jiraiaya and borrow under ground





Umm yea ? To summon Aoda, Orochimaru just has to bite his thumb and stamp the ground (Like 1/2 second). Jumping in Aoda's mouth is another half second and borrowing in the ground for Aoda took no time flat....Those gates would put a solid 200 meters between Itachi and Orochimaru



Bkprince33 said:


> This is a full knowledge fight, meaning itachi knows about frog song and knows he's out numbered, he isn't giving them any breathing room in this fight.



Its still IC

Blood lusted would mean he comes at them full force with his strongest killing jutsu. Not happening.  

There are multiple ways for the Sannin to get their prep time for Song and ET. Jiraiya could just use Yomi Numa  to sink Itachi, and while he is trying to get out, the just summon Aoda and borrow...


This shows how quick Yomi Numa is activated...mere milliseconds 
surprised


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 12, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Umm yea ? To summon Aoda, Orochimaru just has to bite his thumb and stamp the ground (Like 1/2 second). Jumping in Aoda's mouth is another half second and borrowing in the ground for Aoda took no time flat....Those gates would put a solid 200 meters between Itachi and Orochimaru.



Ummm no? Why is the gate creating 200 meters between itachi and the sanin?? 

You seem to be confused, the gate is a defensive jutsu itachi would have no reason to jump back from it. Itachi can simply side step the gates and proceed to shushin 40 meters toward the sanin.

Orochimaru cannot summon aoda, hop in it's mouth, and have him borrow before itachi can cross 40 meters with a shushin.



JuicyG said:


> Its still IC
> 
> Blood lusted would mean he comes at them full force with his strongest killing jutsu. Not happening.
> 
> There are multiple ways for the Sannin to get their prep time for Song and ET. Jiraiya could just use Yomi Numa  to sink Itachi, and while he is trying to get out, the just summon Aoda and borrow...



Funny you bring up ic and then have the sanin do multiple ooc strageties but i will adress it anyway.

Itachi can jump over the swamp, negate it with yata, fly over it with a crow bushin, etc.

Ic itachi immediately resorted to amatarasu and susano vs nagato, if he feels he is out gunned which he is due to it being 3 on 1, he already displayed in the manga he has no problem resorting to ms usage right away.

You on the other hand have yet to prove the sanin will resort to such a ooc tatic, Orochimaru never used his snakes to borrow as he can borrow himself, and jiraiaya never resorted to sm at the start of a match.

Oro only ever uses the gates as a defensive manauver and never used it to block los, so my arguement as it stands is actually pretty ic, while yours isn't.



JuicyG said:


> This shows how quick Yomi Numa is activated...mere milliseconds
> this



Sharingon precognition and full knowledge points to itachi avoiding the swamp with what i stated above.


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## JuicyG (Nov 12, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Ummm no? Why is the gate creating 200 meters between itachi and the sanin??



The gates cover that much ground



Bkprince33 said:


> Itachi can simply side step the gates and proceed to shushin 40 meters toward the sanin.



Again, Itachi is not blood lusted, and it would be more than 40 meters distance. 



Bkprince33 said:


> Orochimaru cannot summon aoda, hop in it's mouth, and have him borrow before itachi can cross 40 meters with a shushin.



Yes he can, and its more than 40 meters anyhow. 




Bkprince33 said:


> Funny you bring up ic and then have the sanin do multiple ooc strageties but i will adress it anyway.



Orochimaru summons snakes nearly every fight he's been in. That is IC for Orochimaru to summon Aoda. It is not however IC for Itachi to be acting BL



Bkprince33 said:


> Itachi can jump over the swamp, negate it with yata, fly over it with a crow bushin, etc.



Yomi Numa targets the area of Itachi and instantly changes the terrain. Itachi is not a sensor either. Itachi will be caught, susano or not



Bkprince33 said:


> Ic itachi immediately resorted to amatarasu and susano vs nagato



Good for him, but this isn't Edo Itachi thread, which means we can't use Edo Itachi feats



Bkprince33 said:


> if he feels he is out gunned which he is due to it being 3 on 1, he already displayed in the manga he has no problem resorting to ms usage right away.



I have no doubt Itachi activates Susano off the rip, I also have no doubt that it will be caught in Yomi Numa swamp as Orochimaru and Jiraiya proceed to borrow with Aoda



Bkprince33 said:


> You on the other hand have yet to prove the sanin will resort to such a ooc tatic, Orochimaru never used his snakes to borrow as he can borrow himself



Orochimaru is IC to summon Aoda. What he does with the summon is according to the situation. In this situation (since Itachi is buffed), Orochimaru needs to prep ET, to do that he just needs to borrow, see no problem there.



Bkprince33 said:


> , and jiraiaya never resorted to sm at the start of a match.



Who said Jiraiya was going SM from the start ? He can just do that inside of Aoda as they are underground



Bkprince33 said:


> Oro only ever uses the gates as a defensive manauver and never used it to block los, so my arguement as it stands is actually pretty ic, while yours isn't.



Who says it can't be used for LOS blockage ? I mean I could put distance between the Sannin and Itachi a number of ways. Like having Tsunade punch the ground and send a shockwave to Itachi blocking his LOS that way with boulders and rocks flying every where while Oro is borrowing with Aoda




Bkprince33 said:


> Sharingon precognition and full knowledge points to itachi avoiding the swamp with what i stated above.




Itachi isn't avoiding Yomi Numa. As I showed in my link previously posted, Yomi Numa is activated near instantaneous and changes the terrain trapping the victim (Itachi)


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 12, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> The gates cover that much ground



thats nice? battle starts at 40 meters, does't matter how much ground the gates cover if it doesn't push itachi back.



JuicyG said:


> Again, Itachi is not blood lusted, and it would be more than 40 meters distance.



using a shushin to close distance has nothing to do with being blood lusted.

Again the gates used for defense isn't pushing anybody back.




JuicyG said:


> Yes he can, and its more than 40 meters anyhow.



umm no he can't as the gates won't push him back, simply repeating your point without providing proof is basically a concession btw.





JuicyG said:


> Orochimaru summons snakes nearly every fight he's been in. That is IC for Orochimaru to summon Aoda. It is not however IC for Itachi to be acting BL



i said it is not ic for orochimaru to hop in aoda's mouth and borrow himself, i never said ororchimaru doesn't summon snakes, lets try to pay attention to our arguments and not just recite the same things without providing any basis for it.

itachi closing the distance is not a blood lust act neither is him using genjutsu on aoda 


do you have scans of orochimaru using a snake to borrow himself at the start of any match ??? if not I'm claiming it's ooc




JuicyG said:


> Yomi Numa targets the area of Itachi and instantly changes the terrain. Itachi is not a sensor either. Itachi will be caught, susano or not




full knowledge sharingon precognition > yomi numa.


yata mirror nullifies the swamp by changing it's nature to oppose it. crow clones fly over and get into genjutsu range



JuicyG said:


> Good for him, but this isn't Edo Itachi thread, which means we can't use Edo Itachi feats.



the only difference between healthy itachi and edo itachi is the unlimited chakra, so you can argue he may try to conserve chakra if he was alive but in this fight he has raikage level chakra, which leads us to believe he would act and fight in the same manner since chakra  should be the least of his worries now.




JuicyG said:


> I have no doubt Itachi activates Susano off the rip, I also have no doubt that it will be caught in Yomi Numa swamp as Orochimaru and Jiraiya proceed to borrow with Aoda



i see this is your last glimmer of hope and this is why your holding on to it so desperately 

crow clones which can fly over the swamp, yata mirror which can negate the swamp, and itachi can probably anticipate it and jump right over it.

how bout you address how the swamp will catch a flying crow or how the swamp will deal with yata instead of just repeating yourself, i already countered this argument.




JuicyG said:


> Orochimaru is IC to summon Aoda. What he does with the summon is according to the situation. In this situation (since Itachi is buffed), Orochimaru needs to prep ET, to do that he just needs to borrow, see no problem there.




I could make the same exact argument for itachi nuking the sanin with his big guns yet you tried to claim it's ooc, you have to apply the same policy to orochimaru that your applying to itachi.

unless you can find a panel of orochimaru summoning his boss summon so he can hop in it's mouth and borrow at the start of a match, it's ooc.

you don't to decide how he will use his summons just because you feel he can counter itachi that way 



JuicyG said:


> Who said Jiraiya was going SM from the start ? He can just do that inside of Aoda as they are underground



wouldn't that be him attempting to go into sm at the start of the battle ck


 literally his first resort "hey orochimaru I'm going to hop into aoda's mouth so i can achieve sm, how is that not jiraiaya attempting to enter sm at the start of the fight? 




JuicyG said:


> Who says it can't be used for LOS blockage ? I mean I could put distance between the Sannin and Itachi a number of ways. Like having Tsunade punch the ground and send a shockwave to Itachi blocking his LOS that way with boulders and rocks flying every where while Oro is borrowing with Aoda




your sole win condition is having aoda borrow orochimaru and jiraiya in a ooc manner.

jiraiya doesn't resort to sm right away and orochimaru doesn't summon aoda at the start of any match for the sole purpose of borrowing.

itachi can literally force his way threw the rocks and still move toward them with ribcage susano so no that doesn't work either, how many times are you going to change your opening move btw ? 




JuicyG said:


> Itachi isn't avoiding Yomi Numa. As I showed in my link previously posted, Yomi Numa is activated near instantaneous and changes the terrain trapping the victim (Itachi)



with sharingon precognition, full knowledge, flying crow clones, and a mirror that blocks elemental ninjutsu how is itachi not countering yomi?


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## Ashi (Nov 12, 2014)

Come on bras


Everyone knows Itachi is an omniscient wizard who can always predict and counter whatever techniques his opponents use


They don't call him the solo king for nothin



Even tho he lost the only ever one on one fight he had in the manga


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## JuicyG (Nov 12, 2014)

@ BK

Its not ooc for Orochimaru to use Aoda in various manner, (And who cares if this is their best shot at beating Itachi, its not like he DOESNT have someone elses chakra here). And Itachi isnt completely avoiding Yomi Numa. Itachi may have great reaction speed, but Yomi Numa is near instantaneous, it literally took a 1/8th of one panel to form a swamp. Itachi would literally have to realize whats going on, then react to YM accordingly before the terrain even changes, if he was able to do that, it would be the best reaction feat from him ever (Not Happening). Itachi will have to focus himself in getting out. Your only hope here to see that Oro doesnt borrow with Aoda and I'm starting to see that struggle in your arguments clamming Orochimaru can't do this or won't do that. Snakes have been used accordingly in every battle he has been involved with.

Start of the battle:

Full knowledge, Tsunade blocks LOS with ground smash wave, or Jiraiya sinks Itachi with YM, all while Orochimaru has Aoda summoned to borrow

Then.....

Oro preps ET while Jiraiya enters SM and preps song...

Finally...

Edo Kages released on Itachi and song is activated

Itachi dies...GG


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## Ashi (Nov 12, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> @ BK
> 
> Its not ooc for Orochimaru to use Aoda in various manner, (And who cares if this is their best shot at beating Itachi, its not like he DOESNT have someone elses chakra here). And Itachi isnt completely avoiding Yomi Numa. Itachi may have great reaction speed, but Yomi Numa is near instantaneous, it literally took a 1/8th of one panel to form a swamp. Itachi would literally have to realize whats going on, then react to YM accordingly before the terrain even changes, if he was able to do that, it would be the best reaction feat from him ever (Not Happening). Itachi will have to focus himself in getting out. Your only hope here to see that Oro doesnt borrow with Aoda and I'm starting to see that struggle in your arguments clamming Orochimaru can't do this or won't do that. Snakes have been used accordingly in every battle he has been involved with.
> 
> ...




I thought Aoda was Sasuke's Bae


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## ARGUS (Nov 12, 2014)

I can make a case for Edo Itachi beating the sannin, 

 - Amaterasu alone one shots tsunade as it renders her byakugou useless due to its constant burning effect and tsunade has no way of countering human sized amaterasu either, nor does she have the speed to evade it 

 - Orochimaru gets done for by genjutsu especially tsukuyomi which he cant percieve, or totsuka can seal him away just fine, as it still pierces right through him and renders his durability/regen useless 

 - Jiraiyas summons are just food for amaterasu, they get one shotted by it rather easily, whilst jiraiya himself gets wrecked by V4 susanoo slashes that was eradicating hydra with utmost ease 

 - Itachi being faster than Jiriaiya also means that the latter is susceptible to tsukuyomi when itachi can just approach him in CQC and immobilise him through that, 

 - None of the sannin could even scratch his susanoo above V3, and Jiraiyas yomi numa is not affecting itachi either when he could still use his jutsus without any movement at all, as well as the fact that he can use amaterasu to negate jiraiyas control over the doton similar to how it was used against muki tensei, 

 - YM and Susanoo slashes as well as genjutsu and the fact that itachi can flood the battlefield with amaterasu means that jiraiya gets taken rather easily as well


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## Ashi (Nov 12, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> I can make a case for Edo Itachi beating the sannin,
> 
> - Amaterasu alone one shots tsunade as it renders her byakugou useless due to its constant burning effect and tsunade has no way of countering human sized amaterasu either, nor does she have the speed to evade it
> 
> ...




Itachi arsenal is one on one friendly against this many people he won't make it


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## ARGUS (Nov 13, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Itachi arsenal is one on one friendly against this many people he won't make it



instead of saying that ''he wont make it'' actually counter my points and ill be glad to prove u wrong


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 13, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> @ BK
> 
> Its not ooc for Orochimaru to use Aoda in various manner, (And who cares if this is their best shot at beating Itachi, its not like he DOESNT have someone elses chakra here). And Itachi isnt completely avoiding Yomi Numa. Itachi may have great reaction speed, but Yomi Numa is near instantaneous, it literally took a 1/8th of one panel to form a swamp. Itachi would literally have to realize whats going on, then react to YM accordingly before the terrain even changes, if he was able to do that, it would be the best reaction feat from him ever (Not Happening). Itachi will have to focus himself in getting out. Your only hope here to see that Oro doesnt borrow with Aoda and I'm starting to see that struggle in your arguments clamming Orochimaru can't do this or won't do that. Snakes have been used accordingly in every battle he has been involved with.
> 
> ...



Orochimaru never used the snake in the exact manner your describing, i never said it's  ooc for using snakes in various manners, im talking about the exact scenerio you described and he doesn't even use aoda, he uses manda, and manda don't  listen for shyt   

You can't play the ooc card and then back track when it's used against you
Who's to say orochimaru would even think of such a stragety.


Itachi reacted to lightning with no knowledge, with full knowledge and precognition he avoids the swamp, yata negates the swamp, crow bushins fly over the swamp, or dude can hop over the shyt. 


Dude can still jump toward them while he's  in rib cage form and still close the distance, her ground pound may also knock her team off balance, no matter how you cut it, the sanin are not escaping bro.
The debris from tsunade ground pounding wouldn't  even help, itachi tagged nagato with totsuka threw the debris from ct which is alot more debris then tsunade's ground pound  the sanin would suffer the same fate.

Jiraiaya was also arrogant enough to claim he could beat kisame and itachi at the same time while in base form, im not seeing why he rushes into sm when he has two more sanin as back up in this scenerio.


Your whole arguement is based on two of the sanin running away in the most ooc manner, to immediately use there trump cards while itachi only 40 meters away just stands there in awe dispite having full knowledge.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 13, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> You think It would take itachi longer to get around the gates then it would take orochimaru to summon a boss summon and have it swallow him and jiraiaya and borrow under ground ?



It won't. Itachi predicted sage Kabuto's attack with sharingan, performed handseals and launched a jutsu before Kabuto could finish performing handseals. 
Orochimaru isn't pulling anything out before Itachi can retaliate 

And what he mentioned here is colosseum strategy. This isn't META gaming, characters don't do stuff that you'd want them to do. So no, Oro & Jiraiya isn't attempting to execute a cowardly OOC strategy to win.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 13, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> It won't. Itachi predicted sage Kabuto's attack with sharingan, performed handseals and launched a jutsu before Kabuto could finish performing handseals.
> Orochimaru isn't pulling anything out before Itachi can retaliate
> 
> And what he mentioned here is colosseum strategy. This isn't META gaming, characters don't do stuff that you'd want them to do. So no, Oro & Jiraiya isn't attempting to execute a cowardly OOC strategy to win.



yep i think he's forgetting itachi has a 5 in speed, quick shushin, and v4 with a giant ass sword, 



thank you bro


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## JuicyG (Nov 13, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Orochimaru never used the snake in the exact manner your describing,



And Itachi never jumped or moved they way he'd have to escape YM, doesnt that make him OOC since he's never had to try and dodge YM ?. This is so stupid to continue this talk of random ooc when its clearly not.



Bkprince33 said:


> i never said it's  ooc for using snakes in various manners



Apologizes, obviously I wasnt meaning Aoda. But Im glad u finally agree here that using snakes in various manner (Borrowing here) is still IC



Bkprince33 said:


> Who's to say orochimaru would even think of such a stragety.



Me, its a debate using the characters resources, and Orochimaru has shown to be extremely resourceful. OT borrowing using snakes



Bkprince33 said:


> Itachi reacted to lightning with no knowledge



He clearly stood there for minutes while Sasuke was charging his attack, at the very least he was expecting something to happen. And its not like he moved his body, he just barely activated Susano. To avoid YM he'd have to physically try and dodge, which isnt happening



Bkprince33 said:


> The debris from tsunade ground pounding wouldn't  even help



Yes it will. It just has to block LOS and let Orochimaru go underground (which takes a total of 2-3 seconds). Itachi would have to realize whats going on by seeing through the debris when it clears some, cross 40 meters and move Tsunade out of her while all before orochimaru is underground......



Bkprince33 said:


> itachi tagged nagato



Stopped reading here. Edo Itachi is not living Itachi. Edo Itachi feats are not applied to living Itachi feats. 



Bkprince33 said:


> Jiraiaya was also arrogant enough to claim he could beat kisame and itachi at the same time while in base form, im not seeing why he rushes into sm when he has two more sanin as back up in this scenerio.



And Itachi also said Jiraiya could beat him, canon.



Bkprince33 said:


> Your whole arguement is based on two of the sanin running away in the most ooc manner,



Not at all. Its IC for kage level ninja to act accordingly to the situation. OOC would be for them to stand and fight toe-to-toe here given full intel.



Bkprince33 said:


> to immediately use there trump cards while itachi only 40 meters away just stands there in awe dispite having full knowledge.



No one said Itachi would be just standing there. He'll either have to react to LOS blockage or climb out from YM.


----------



## Bkprince33 (Nov 13, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> And Itachi never jumped or moved they way he'd have to escape YM, doesnt that make him OOC since he's never had to try and dodge YM ?. This is so stupid to continue this talk of random ooc when its clearly not.



Dodging a opponents technique, isn't equivlent to orochimaru using a snake to borrow, when he borrows himself all the time in the manga without a snake.

You personally feel like that's a counter to itachi's abilities so your debating with orochimaru as if you where him.

Hell orochimaru was hidden in hydra and still came out exsposing himself to itachi with knowledge on genjutsu, why would he randomly borrow and hide in such a manner right at the start now?




JuicyG said:


> Apologizes, obviously I wasnt meaning Aoda. But Im glad u finally agree here that using snakes in various manner (Borrowing here) is still IC



Other snakes do not move as fast as aoda and manda, and manda doesn't listen for shyt so your stragety is even less viable now.

I disagreed with the way you would have him use his snakes, not him using snakes in general let's  not put words in each others mouth.



JuicyG said:


> Me, its a debate using the characters resources, and Orochimaru has shown to be extremely resourceful. OT borrowing using snakes



It's a debate using the manga and feats from the manga to determine the most likley outcome.

Not to debate as if you where the character.

Already addressed the rest above.



JuicyG said:


> He clearly stood there for minutes while Sasuke was charging his attack, at the very least he was expecting something to happen. And its not like he moved his body, he just barely activated Susano. To avoid YM he'd have to physically try and dodge, which isnt happening



Fact is he didn't  have susano activated so it doesn't matter how long he stood there, he mentally reacted to kirin after sasuke launched the lightning,  kishi went  out his way to explain to us how fast the technique is. 

 for comparing yomi numa's speed to kirin, itachi can see the chakra build and hand seals with precog, he can easily anticipate the swamp and counter accordingly.



JuicyG said:


> Yes it will. It just has to block LOS and let Orochimaru go underground (which takes a total of 2-3 seconds). Itachi would have to realize whats going on by seeing through the debris when it clears some, cross 40 meters and move Tsunade out of her while all before orochimaru is underground......




How is a pile of rocks even bothering ribcage susano when it was tanking hits from the raikage 

Also as I've already stated edo itachi saw threw the much more ct debris.




JuicyG said:


> Stopped reading here. Edo Itachi is not living Itachi. Edo Itachi feats are not applied to living Itachi feats.



So healthy itachi with raikage level chakra can't erect the same v4 susano??

Hell even sick itachi erected a large v4 susano

Exactly what's stopping rai-tachi from replicated the same feats?? Don't worry ima sip this tea while i wait for a answer 


JuicyG said:


> And Itachi also said Jiraiya could beat him, canon.



So if this was cannon then like in cannon jiraiaya won't attempt to run away and use sm, at the start of the fight since he felt no such need to do so even without back up while itachi had kisame with him ck

And itachi also said back up wouldn't change anything so i guess this is cannon base jiraiya >>>>>>>>> itachi,kisame,nagato,obito,deidara,sasori,hidan,kazaku makes sense right juicy 




JuicyG said:


> Not at all. Its IC for kage level ninja to act accordingly to the situation. OOC would be for them to stand and fight toe-to-toe here given full intel.



What situation is present? Your having them do this as soon as the bell rings 




JuicyG said:


> No one said Itachi would be just standing there. He'll either have to react to LOS blockage or climb out from YM.



He doesn't  have to wait for them to cast a jutsu before he starts to shushin toward them, itachi kept up with bee in cqc and bee already shushin over 40 meters in a instant.


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## JuicyG (Nov 13, 2014)

The pull of rock debris isnt affecting anything besides LOS, which is all that it needs to do

Yomi Numa isnt a jutsu that activates over time, it takes 2 hand seals (milli seconds) and BAM there's a swamp (Lake Size)


_But Im done with this topic, moving on....

Sannin lose because of discrepancies between OOC & IC, although Itachi spamming Susano and Tskyumoi and Amaterasu from the start is ok  But using Manda in particular ways is not fair..._

*Either way I have my opinion and you can keep yours, agree to disagree.*


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 13, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> The pull of rock debris isnt affecting anything besides LOS, which is all that it needs to do
> 
> Yomi Numa isnt a jutsu that activates over time, it takes 2 hand seals (milli seconds) and BAM there's a swamp (Lake Size)
> 
> ...



If itachi saw nagato threw the debris of ct, he will see the sanin (more targets) threw lesser debris.

itachi can see the hand seals and chakra build threw sharingon precognition and counter accordingly.


I already proved itachi resorts to ms use when he has sufficient chakra reserves and he feels he is out gunned, which he should feel here since apparently he though he couldn't beat base jiraiya with kisame by his side and jiraiya has two other sannin with him in this scenerio and itachi has no one 


I simply stated him using manda in such a way is ooc.

You claimed my scenerio was ooc and i provided proof on why it's ic.

I claimed your scenerio was ooc and you provided no proof, so all sarcasm aside your concession is accepted ck



You haven't even addressed the fact that manda doesn't listen for shyt


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## IchLiebe (Nov 13, 2014)

Manda technically did listen, he was just complaining.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 13, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Manda technically did listen, he was just complaining.



I agree He did but it takes time to get him to comply, he won't just immediately let both jiraiaya and oro hop in his mouth.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 13, 2014)

Well again, technically there's no reason he wouldn't. He complained but never showed any signs of going against Oro. Kabuto said IF Manda found out he couldn't use his arms then he would go against them, however since Oro has his arms or if Manda thinks he does then he won't for what seems to be Oro being superior.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 13, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Well again, technically there's no reason he wouldn't. He complained but never showed any signs of going against Oro. Kabuto said IF Manda found out he couldn't use his arms then he would go against them, however since Oro has his arms or if Manda thinks he does then he won't for what seems to be Oro being superior.



And again this proves my point manda didn't know oro didn't  have any arms hence, he will still complain and ask for his sacrafice and not instantly comply with orochimaru's command


Itachi can shushin 40 meters before oro can summon manda, listen to manda complain then hop in his mouth.


As I've already pointed out bee shushin 40 meters instantly amd itachi was keeping up with bee just fine and even shushin behind him.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 13, 2014)

No. Manda will do whatever Orochimaru wants because Orochimaru is clearly superior even in Manda's eyes. The only time Manda would oppose Oro is if he doesn't have his arms. At that time Manda would fight him and not listen because then HE'S the stronger of the two (in his mind) however right now Orochimaru is so Manda will do whatever he says. Jiraiya even said he couldn't control Gamabunta but when he summoned him, Gama listened.


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## Hachibi (Nov 13, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> No. Manda will do whatever Orochimaru wants because Orochimaru is clearly superior even in Manda's eyes. The only time Manda would oppose Oro is if he doesn't have his arms. At that time Manda would fight him and not listen because then HE'S the stronger of the two (in his mind) however right now Orochimaru is so Manda will do whatever he says. Jiraiya even said he couldn't control Gamabunta but when he summoned him, Gama listened.



Manda didn't even know that Oro lost his arm when he said that.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 13, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> No. Manda will do whatever Orochimaru wants because Orochimaru is clearly superior even in Manda's eyes. The only time Manda would oppose Oro is if he doesn't have his arms. At that time Manda would fight him and not listen because then HE'S the stronger of the two (in his mind) however right now Orochimaru is so Manda will do whatever he says. Jiraiya even said he couldn't control Gamabunta but when he summoned him, Gama listened.



Unless Sannin are given prep, they aren't going to execute a strategy on the get go. 

So as soon as the fight starts, they'll communicate, decide what they'll do and then try to execute it. 
Manda gets summoned, is cranky as always, Orochimaru tells him what he needs to do and then they can do it.

Unless Itachi sits there and waits, things won't go so smoothly I can tell.


Also like I mentioned earlier, Sannin won't go with a completely OOC colesseum strategy off the bat. The only time we've seen something similar to it was when Jiraiya retreated from Pain and ran away to think of something. And that was when he felt like he was being overwhelmed.
You'r telling me that the first thing the Sannin will resort in a 3v1 scenario is to run away to prep frog song ? How afraid are they of Itachi ?  

Seriously, thats not happening, even if they IC felt like doing it(which they won't).


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 13, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Manda didn't even know that Oro lost his arm when he said that.


^^ no need for me to respond

thank you bro, we got 






Grimmjowsensei said:


> Unless Sannin are given prep, they aren't going to execute a strategy on the get go.
> 
> So as soon as the fight starts, they'll communicate, decide what they'll do and then try to execute it.
> Manda gets summoned, is cranky as always, Orochimaru tells him what he needs to do and then they can do it.
> ...



i though base jiraiya was stronger then itachi and kisame, why is he running away faster then he did with nagato and he has back up jus to  go into sage mode?


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 14, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> i though base jiraiya was stronger then itachi and kisame, why is he running away faster then he did with nagato and he has back up jus to  go into sage mode?



I think Juicy is subtly implying that Itachi is fuckloads stronger than sannin, considering the strategy he thinks they'll opt for. :ignoramus


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## Danzio (Nov 14, 2014)

Sannin will crush him.

Oro only needs to summon Hashi. At least restrict Edo tensei.


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## Garcher (Nov 14, 2014)

Itachi literally solos

genjutsu rape Oro
totsuka gg J man
amaterasu on tsunade and let her burn till her chakra finally runs out for the most painful death possible


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## Ashi (Nov 14, 2014)

Aikuro said:


> Itachi literally solos
> 
> genjutsu rape Oro
> totsuka gg J man
> amaterasu on tsunade and let her burn till her chakra finally runs out for the most painful death possible


Jiraiya's Massive Rasengan can even one shot Itachi 


And A blindside from Tsunade means he's toast


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## Hachibi (Nov 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Jiraiya's Massive Rasengan can even one shot Itachi
> 
> 
> And A blindside from Tsunade means he's toast



Jiraiya's Massive Rasengan isn't doing shit to Itachi when V4 Susano blocked Kirin.

Also Tsunade get lol'd at by MS.


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## Ashi (Nov 14, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Jiraiya's Massive Rasengan isn't doing shit to Itachi when V4 Susano blocked Kirin.




It didn't block it, it just kept Itachi from being vaporized



> Also Tsunade get lol'd at by MS.



Madara-Kun would say otherwise


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> It didn't block it, it just kept Itachi from being vaporized
> 
> 
> 
> Madara-Kun would say otherwise



madara with rib cage blocked a giant rasengon from naruto


I see

I see




why is jiraiya's rasengon busting v4 wielding susano again?


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## Ashi (Nov 14, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> madara with rib cage blocked a giant rasengon from naruto
> 
> 
> I see
> ...



Because Itachi isn't Madara

And Jiraiya has back up


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Nov 14, 2014)

You people saying Itachi can solo the 3 legendary sanin are crazy. The wank is strong with all the itachi supporters.

Does Itachi have weapons to kill each of the Sainin? yes. But so do the sanin and there are 3 of them and one of itachi.

What is Itachi going to do against combo attacks from the sanin?

Orochimaru cancels out amatarasu, he just uses oral rebirth. Jiraiya has massive aoe attacks that will keep itachi on the defensive. Itachi can camp in Susanoo all he wants but he isn't holding out for long.

Any damage itachi inflicts of Jiraiya and Orochimaru Tsunade just heals.

If Tsunade can crack PS im pretty sure she can destroy regular susanoo.

When most people put powerful characters like these against each other they always assume that they are going to use their best attacks right off the bat.

And even if that is the case and Itachi spams all his abilities the sanin can counter all of them.

Alls the sanin have to do for an easy win is summon all their boss summons and force itachi to use all his MS powers on them then attack him with massive aoe attacks and he is dead.

Itachi isnt a super human chakra reserve god like madara is. He will run out of gas.

SM Jiraiya alone can obliterate Itachi.

I will not deny Itachi is strong but to say he can take on such firepower by himself is absurd.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 14, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Unless Sannin are given prep, they aren't going to execute a strategy on the get go.
> 
> So as soon as the fight starts, they'll communicate, decide what they'll do and then try to execute it.
> Manda gets summoned, is cranky as always, Orochimaru tells him what he needs to do and then they can do it.
> ...


They are the Sannin, with supposed perfect teamwork. They even passed a bell test where you weren't supposed to use teamwork. They fought Hanzo who deemed them worthy of having the title of Sannin and they lived. Im highly certain they didn't have full knowledge of Hanzo's abilities.





> Also like I mentioned earlier, Sannin won't go with a completely OOC colesseum strategy off the bat. The only time we've seen something similar to it was when Jiraiya retreated from Pain and ran away to think of something. And that was when he felt like he was being overwhelmed.
> You'r telling me that the first thing the Sannin will resort in a 3v1 scenario is to run away to prep frog song ? How afraid are they of Itachi ?


No, just said if worse comes to worse. But with full knowledge, Jiraiya's extensive knowledge and seeing him(...running away). Orochimaru also tried to take over his body and failed, then trained Sasuke, Fucked with Itachi before being sealed, then said fuck Itachi and is now slithering around in a forest somewhere. Tsunade has extensive experience fighting Uchihas and knowledge of the Uchiha clan from her time in Konoha. Plus being Tobirama's niece(with him not having no known descendants, realistically has to be Kakashi, dat white hair) probably let her in on the secrets of the evil Uchiha and their special powers. Hell that knowledge alone warrants an advantage. Itachi is at to much of a despair. 


 I see it as every fight is right after the other, and that they carry knowledge over, so they both progressively get better throughout the matches. I do this in every fight of the battledome as I feel that the truly superior one will win most times. So while I don't see the Sannin doing this in the first few matches or even at all, but if worse comes to worse Frog Song is a definite win and other than blitzing, which might not work, there is nothing Itachi can do to counter it.

There are countless things that give the Sannin the edge. Ninjutsu alone can beat Itachi.

Its IC for Jiraiya to do oil+Katon combos, so its not far fetched, given their immense teamwork feats, to say that Orochimaru can do a combination attack with his fuuton added with the oil+katon combo which nothing less than YM can counter in my honest opinion. Then you have Tsunade that can crack Susanoo, portable chakra battery to enhance her teammates' ninjutsu.

Manda and Snakes can be troublesome and used effectively as Support. Manda won't lose the chance to disgrace the frog and slug.

Gamabunta can attack from the air by leaping up into the air and shooting his water bullets then fall dwn on top of Itachi(Food Cart Destroyer, possibly) 

Katsuyu solos with ease


I will say Totsuka is dangerous, but as shown even with the death god(which I hold in higher regard to Totsuka because of its absoluteness) and ETs that if the connection breaks than the sealing doesn't work or isn't fully completed.

YM is good and has better defense than regular V4 Susanoo. But it has its limits. It can be overwhelmed(AOE attacks), it can be circumvented(attacking where it can't block), and it can be busted(jinton most notably)

Amaterasu would be good against Summons but it drastically hurts Itachi's performance from then on he is pressed for time and must end the fight as quick as possible while the Sannin have all the time in the world. They can fall back set up a defensive formation, discuss a strategy after the initial assault which will force Itachi to use atleast 1-2 MS techniques. They have the advantages stacked in their favor. They have numbers and numbers give you the advantage when fighting Uchihas(Unless your Tobirama Senju, Slayer of the Uchiha) and with summons that furthers that statistic. 

Genjutsu, Almost a none factor but can play a part, nothing less than Tsukuyomi will really effect the Sannin(Jiraiya knows how to break Genjutsu rather well(Itachi even admitted that his teachings were useful in Naruto's growth as a shinobi), Orochimaru almost broke Itachi's genjutsu when he was trying to transfer bodies and was weakened, Tsunade is the greatest medical nin there has ever been...nuff said).


> Seriously, thats not happening, even if they IC felt like doing it(which they won't).



IC Itachi doesn't use MS unless forced to or to mindfuck Sasuke.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 14, 2014)

ic itachi uses ms if he feels he is outgunned, as we seened with nagato


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## IchLiebe (Nov 14, 2014)

If he feels he's outgunned he runs, as seen against Jiraiya. And I used an example of living Itachi compared to your edo Itachi, as well as using alone Itachi against your Itachi with teammates.


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## Ashi (Nov 14, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> If he feels he's outgunned he runs, as seen against Jiraiya. And I used an example of living Itachi compared to your edo Itachi, as well as using alone Itachi against your Itachi with teammates.



But Itachi Solo King


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## IchLiebe (Nov 14, 2014)

O, my bad Itachi had Kisame as backup against solo Jiraiya and STILL ran.


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## Ashi (Nov 14, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> O, my bad Itachi had Kisame as backup against solo Jiraiya and STILL ran.



In all seriousness w/o MS Jiraiya would've killed them both

They would've winded up frog food


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## Sadgoob (Nov 14, 2014)

Danzio said:


> Sannin will crush him.
> 
> Oro only needs to summon Hashi. At least restrict Edo tensei.



Orochimaru can't control Hashi...


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## Baroxio (Nov 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> In all seriousness w/o MS Jiraiya would've killed them both
> 
> They would've winded up frog food


Kisame can summon thousands of sharks and flood the building in an instant if he wanted. Suffice it to say that a matchup between thousands of sharks and walls of meat isn't going to be very difficult for the sharks.

Kisame alone could have gotten out of that trap, had Kishimoto known the full extent of his abilities when he made the character.

I'll give you that an Itachi without the Magenkyou Sharingan would have had some problems, though.


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Nov 15, 2014)

Baroxio said:


> Kisame can summon thousands of sharks and flood the building in an instant if he wanted. Suffice it to say that a matchup between thousands of sharks and walls of meat isn't going to be very difficult for the sharks.
> 
> Kisame alone could have gotten out of that trap, had Kishimoto known the full extent of his abilities when he made the character.
> 
> I'll give you that an Itachi without the Magenkyou Sharingan would have had some problems, though.



You can say Kisame coulda shoulda woulda all you want but when it comes down to it he was panicking and ran for his life.


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## Hachibi (Nov 15, 2014)

Using statement instead of feats doesn't prove Jiraiya > Itachi at all.

Because I can use the statement that Oro admitted inferiority to Itachi and drugged Jiraiya had probelm with Armless Oro


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 15, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> They are the Sannin, with supposed perfect teamwork. They even passed a bell test where you weren't supposed to use teamwork. They fought Hanzo who deemed them worthy of having the title of Sannin and they lived. Im highly certain they didn't have full knowledge of Hanzo's abilities.


Ok you didn't adress anything I said.
I didn't say they don't have excellent team work. But their minds aren't linked. They probably have some text book strategies they can use from the get go, but if they are going to do something like Juicy suggested, that'd require them to communicate. They can't just know exactly what they are going to do.




> No, just said if worse comes to worse. But with full knowledge, Jiraiya's extensive knowledge and seeing him(...running away). Orochimaru also tried to take over his body and failed, then trained Sasuke, Fucked with Itachi before being sealed, then said fuck Itachi and is now slithering around in a forest somewhere. Tsunade has extensive experience fighting Uchihas and knowledge of the Uchiha clan from her time in Konoha. Plus being Tobirama's niece(with him not having no known descendants, realistically has to be Kakashi, dat white hair) probably let her in on the secrets of the evil Uchiha and their special powers. Hell that knowledge alone warrants an advantage. Itachi is at to much of a despair.


Again what does this have anything to do with what I said ? Did you even read my post 



IchLiebe said:


> IC Itachi doesn't use MS unless forced to or to* mindfuck Sasuke*.



You just admitted that he can use it without being forced. Cool.

Also he used amaterasu right off the bat against Nagato, and then he used Susano'o to save B & Naruto. He used Amaterasu on Toad Stomach, etc. 

Itachi's MS use is circumstantial I agree, but that doesn't mean he won't use it ever. It just means that he uses it *when it is necessary*, and Itachi is a guy who doesn't fuck around, unlike Orochimaru or Jiraiya.  He is outnumbered 3 to 1, and his opponents aren't chumps. So it is very likely that he whips out MS to reduce their numbers early on.



Baroxio said:


> Kisame can summon thousands of sharks and flood the building in an instant if he wanted. Suffice it to say that a matchup between thousands of sharks and walls of meat isn't going to be very difficult for the sharks.
> 
> Kisame alone could have gotten out of that trap, had Kishimoto known the full extent of his abilities when he made the character.
> 
> I'll give you that an Itachi without the Magenkyou Sharingan would have had some problems, though.



Itachi could have just oneshot Jiraiya with genjutsu, make him crush himself with the toad wall if he had any intentions of fighting Jiraiya. But he obviously didn't.
Jiraiya was fully exposed and vulnerable when he used that jutsu.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 15, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Using statement instead of feats doesn't prove Jiraiya > Itachi at all.
> 
> Because I can use the statement that Oro admitted inferiority to Itachi and drugged Jiraiya had probelm with Armless Oro



Use the Hashirama one.


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## Vice (Nov 15, 2014)

Strategoob said:


> Use the Hashirama one.



Use the Juubito one.


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## Ashi (Nov 15, 2014)

Baroxio said:


> Kisame can summon thousands of sharks and flood the building in an instant if he wanted. Suffice it to say that a matchup between thousands of sharks and walls of meat isn't going to be very difficult for the sharks.
> 
> Kisame alone could have gotten out of that trap, had Kishimoto known the full extent of his abilities when he made the character.
> 
> I'll give you that an Itachi without the Magenkyou Sharingan would have had some problems, though.



Why give p1 characters p2 feats


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## Hachibi (Nov 15, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Why give p1 characters p2 feats



Because Kisame didn't change during p1 and p2?


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