# Why hasn't Japan banned child-porn comics?



## Selina Kyle (Jan 7, 2015)

> Japan's comics and cartoons - known as manga and anime - are a huge cultural industry and famous around the world. But some are shocking, featuring children in sexually explicit scenarios. Why has Japan decided against banning this material?
> 
> It's a Sunday afternoon in Tokyo and Sunshine Creation is in full swing. Thousands of manga fans, mostly men, crowd into an exhibition centre, poring over manga comic magazines laid out for sale on trestle tables snaking around the rooms.
> 
> ...




because pedos 

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30698640


----------



## Linkdarkside (Jan 7, 2015)

Selina Kyle said:


> *because pedos *


nope,it because they are drawings,a bunch of lines have no rights or feelings.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Jan 7, 2015)

Linkdarkside said:


> nope,it because they drawing they have no rights or feelings.



wow that explains the state of japanese society so well now


----------



## kluang (Jan 7, 2015)

wow they're attacking hentai


----------



## Malicious Friday (Jan 7, 2015)

Japan is fucking weird, that's why they haven't banned it. Just leave them be to do their own fucking thing and shut up, you whiny piece of shit. (Not you, OP.)


----------



## Linkdarkside (Jan 7, 2015)

Selina Kyle said:


> wow that explains the state of japanese society so well now



i edited my reply to match what i meant.

drawings have no rights they are just lines not people unless they are based on real children, then i can see a problem.


----------



## Tapion (Jan 7, 2015)

Crack down on the ones featuring real children and leave the manga alone, people should be able to do what they want as long as they're not harming others. 

As for Olympics, there's a secret weapon faster than the Bolt....I've said too much


----------



## Mider T (Jan 7, 2015)

Malicious Friday said:


> Japan is fucking weird, that's why they haven't banned it. Just leave them be to do their own fucking thing and shut up, you whiny piece of shit. (Not you, OP.)



Turning a blind eye and accepting things "just because" is a horribly weak "solution" and is the failing answer to many of today's problems.


----------



## SLB (Jan 7, 2015)

> "I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says.
> 
> I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby".
> 
> "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other."



quite the pair


----------



## Soca (Jan 7, 2015)

Perfect pair to say the least.


----------



## Atlas (Jan 7, 2015)

Would rather have people jerk it to anime children than real ones.


----------



## Mintaka (Jan 7, 2015)

Marcellina said:


> Perfect pair to say the least.


I wonder what their kids will be like.  


*throws up a little*


----------



## Fran (Jan 7, 2015)

because kira yamato


----------



## scerpers (Jan 7, 2015)

the h purge begins
race war soon


----------



## Mintaka (Jan 7, 2015)

Touch my hentai and you dai.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 7, 2015)

Personally, I find lolicon disgusting and disturbing. And yet I'm strongly against the sort of thoughtt police mindset that basically goes "it's squicky; ban it!" As long as it harms no one, no banning.


----------



## dream (Jan 7, 2015)

Cromer said:
			
		

> Personally, I find lolicon disgusting and disturbing. And yet I'm strongly against the sort of thoughtt police mindset that basically goes "it's squicky; ban it!" As long as it harms no one, no banning.



I pretty much feel the same way as you.  Just because something is uncomfortable or disturbing doesn't mean we should ban it unless it has serious negative effects.  If a solid case can be made showing that lolicon hentai is like a gateway drug to real child porn or anything along those lines I'll gladly throw my support for banning lolicon hentai.



> "By 2020, when the Summer Olympics will take place in Japan, we have to turn Japan into a country which people don't call a perverted culture."



Good luck.


----------



## Zyrax (Jan 7, 2015)

Fucking political correct ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) trying to ruin Loli


----------



## GrimaH (Jan 7, 2015)

> Why hasn't Japan banned child-porn comics?



Because loli hentai is not child-porn?

Now, if they actually decide to go after those making gravure junior idol photoshoots and videos (y'know, the ones involving _real kids_), I can get behind that. But I don't see any politicians wanting to do that.


----------



## Katou (Jan 7, 2015)

To every similar thread like this. . .my post will remain the same. . 

" LOLI IS JUSTICE "


----------



## Mintaka (Jan 7, 2015)

> "By 2020, when the  will take place in Japan, we have to turn Japan into a country which people don't call a perverted culture."


Great idea.

Then you'll be that country full of closet perverts.  I'm sure that's better somehow.


----------



## Pilaf (Jan 7, 2015)

"We're Japan. We raped Korean and Chinese women in WWII and we're not ashamed of that, but we don't want people to think we're perverts because imaginary children are somehow being abused."


----------



## Raidoton (Jan 7, 2015)

Dream said:


> I pretty much feel the same way as you.  Just because something is uncomfortable or disturbing doesn't mean we should ban it unless it has serious negative effects.  If a solid case can be made showing that lolicon hentai is like a gateway drug to real child porn or anything along those lines I'll gladly throw my support for banning lolicon hentai.


On the other hand, it might prevent some pedophiles to switch to real child pornography. Like a lot of fictional bad things can prevent us from doing it in reality.


----------



## rajin (Jan 7, 2015)

well i supported that tokyo ban on such disgusting creations and i support if a new ban stand is taken . More of a problem is Ecchi . ppl go for hentai with a mindset that it is fiction . ppl go for Ecchi+ Borderline H content so that they could relate it to real life in someway possible .
Ecchi+ Borderline H : harm more than hentai do .
objectifying females , teen girls , kids is disgusting and gross
and there are many tv shows which are based on objectification of FEMALES

i am not against creativity but when u'r only purpose is increase your bank balance by taking advantage of Lust of males then this is wrong .


----------



## Zyrax (Jan 7, 2015)

rajin said:


> well i supported that tokyo ban on such disgusting creations and i support if a new ban stand is taken . More of a problem is Ecchi . ppl go for hentai with a mindset that it is fiction . ppl go for Ecchi+ Borderline H content so that they could relate it to real life in someway possible .
> Ecchi+ Borderline H : harm more than hentai do .
> objectifying females , teen girls , kids is disgusting and gross
> and there are many tv shows which are based on objectification of FEMALES
> ...


Go back to Tumblr you Beta male


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 7, 2015)

Pilaf said:


> "We're Japan. We raped Korean and Chinese women in WWII and we're not ashamed of that, but we don't want people to think we're perverts because imaginary children are somehow being abused."



Pretty much. 



rajin said:


> well i supported that tokyo ban on such disgusting creations and i support if a new ban stand is taken . More of a problem is Ecchi . ppl go for hentai with a mindset that it is fiction . ppl go for Ecchi+ Borderline H content so that they could relate it to real life in someway possible .
> Ecchi+ Borderline H : harm more than hentai do .
> objectifying females , teen girls , kids is disgusting and gross
> and there are many tv shows which are based on objectification of FEMALES
> ...



Your standpoint has no basis, and is really only guided by your own personal disgust than anything. Which is one of the worst ways to legislate these matters.


----------



## Pilaf (Jan 7, 2015)

The funny thing is that social conservatives often accuse liberals of being illogical and acting on our feelings, but the kneejerk way they react to "perversion" and other "crimes" is the most utterly irrational thing I've ever witnessed.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Jan 7, 2015)

> Why hasn't Japan banned *child-porn comics?
> *



Yeah . I guess I made my point . 

" Why the western world hasn't banned any ARTISTICAL material with rape ? " 

So yeah, fuck off .


----------



## Garcher (Jan 7, 2015)

sexual freedom for everyone


----------



## DeathScream (Jan 7, 2015)

rajin said:


> well i supported that tokyo ban on such disgusting creations and i support if a new ban stand is taken . More of a problem is Ecchi . ppl go for hentai with a mindset that it is fiction . ppl go for Ecchi+ Borderline H content so that they could relate it to real life in someway possible .
> Ecchi+ Borderline H : harm more than hentai do .
> objectifying females , teen girls , kids is disgusting and gross
> and there are many tv shows which are based on objectification of FEMALES
> ...



Dream could you PLEASE ban this SJW Communist fuck?


@thread: its funny because Alan Moore did WORSE when he finally went nuts on League of Extraordinary gentleman


----------



## Mider T (Jan 7, 2015)

Pilaf said:


> "We're Japan. We raped Korean and Chinese women in WWII and we're not ashamed of that, but we don't want people to think we're perverts because imaginary children are somehow being abused."



If they weren't ashamed,  they would freely admit they did it instead of denying it ever happened.


----------



## Subarashii (Jan 7, 2015)

YOU'LL NEVER TAKE MY SHOUTACOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN



> "I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says.
> 
> I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby".
> 
> "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other."


I don't obsess over lil boys, I would be concerned if my grown ass adult husband was fawning over lil girls
If they like lil girls in hentai, what's next? Actual child porn?
Seems like a logical progression.

I like shouta con and I've dated younger guys, I'm sure dudes who like lolicon like younger girls... just how young 
is the kicker.


----------



## ThunderCunt (Jan 7, 2015)

Even in normal manga/anime fully grown woman are drawn as 14 year girls with massive tits. I am never sure how old is any female(or is it even a female?) in a manga.


----------



## Subarashii (Jan 7, 2015)

initpidzero said:


> Even in normal manga/anime fully grown woman are drawn as 14 year girls with massive tits. I am never sure how old is any female(or is it even a female?) in a manga.



That's true

It's either 14 year + tits or Obaa-chaaaaaan!

But most anime protagonists are 14 year old boy/girls
Plenty of shouta and loli


----------



## Lina Inverse (Jan 7, 2015)

Yoko Littner was 14 years old right

then in complete contrast, the characters from Lucky Star are like 17 years old?


----------



## Aeternus (Jan 7, 2015)

I can understand people not liking it, not a fan of it myself but ban it? That seems excessive.


----------



## Subarashii (Jan 7, 2015)

Lina Inverse said:


> Yoko Littner was 14 years old right
> 
> then in complete contrast, the characters from Lucky Star are like 17 years old?



[SP=14 going on 40][/SP]



Is Japan backwards somehow?
Do they want super young girls to look old and older girls to look young?
Does not compute

If Yoko is 14 yrs old acting as sexually provocative as she is, I can only assume she was sexually abused as a young child


----------



## Lina Inverse (Jan 7, 2015)

that's what I was talking about

then again it might just be their art style(drawing people in semi-chibi so to speak), I dunno


----------



## rajin (Jan 7, 2015)

there is all kind lolicon hentai there and we have seen cases where people in west were charged with child-pornography when Ecchi+borderline h or hentai material was found in their electronic devices . it is abuse and so it should be banned . 

i have seen tv showing measuring beauty of girls 12 years or below and where you idols come from? 

Art has the ability to change your views. when such content is all around for more than a decade you think it won't have any effect on the people and culture?

This is why mature series exist where characters are adult and not teens or kids.

such content is sold in open and whether you wish or not comes into sight pretty often 

Objectification of Women is wrong . creativity and art not means you go wild with ludicrous fantasies . 

Junior Idol = you can find lot of content related to it online and you won't much appreciate it.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 7, 2015)

rajin said:


> there is all kind lolicon hentai there and we have seen cases where people in west were charged with child-pornography when Ecchi+borderline h or hentai material was found in their electronic devices . it is abuse and so it should be banned .
> 
> i have seen tv showing measuring beauty of girls 12 years or below and where you idols come from?
> 
> ...



You're still not making any coherent point here. You are trying to pretend it was the material that brought forth such desires instead of the likely conclusion that they already had those desires to begin with. It is up to each individual with those desires to maintain their urges and not harm an actual child or consume material in which actual children are being abused. Fictional material is a non-issue. 

Again all I see you doing is wanted to censor things based on merely your own personal distaste.


----------



## Pliskin (Jan 7, 2015)

rajin said:


> Art has the ability to change your views. when such content is all around for more than a decade you think it won't have any effect on the people and culture?



Citation needed. 

Also why stop there, why not ban depictions of violence? Or depictions of crimes in a positive light. Or anything you dissaprove of.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 7, 2015)

My Position is the same as with Homosexuals on topics like this. 

Regardless of my opinion on it thats your business so have fun, society need to learn to stay out of peoples fucking bussiness and let them live their sad pathetic lives of little meaning. i'm certainly not going to go out of my way to stop you from doing pretty much anything just keep your shit out of my business. If you want to read your Lolicon go right ahead.......i'm reading it with you


----------



## rajin (Jan 7, 2015)

this is why movies are authorised and given rating naa? .
gruesome scenes are often censored in media . 
whatever else to be said i have already done so .  

@seito keiba
i didn't say that material produced physical desires .i just said sexual visualisation of children should be curbed . Objectification of women which is wrong but never gonna stop shouldn't reach to the level of kids.
so if you have those urges towards kids that makes u all good? 
when you know that act itself is wrong then its fantasy is wrong too . 
you propose rather than trying to sort out your thoughts and views and become a better human people should openly indulge in fictional medium to fulfill their desires ?
*
Japan's police agency reported 1,644 child pornography offences in 2013 -  more than in any year since the 1999 law came into force*

often sexual abuse cases go unnoticed or not even considered sexual abuse .


----------



## BashFace (Jan 7, 2015)

Because controversy is forced and it can remain? 

What rights do the people of Japan or elsewhere have to not want "child"ren without identities in "porn"ography distributed through their countries? I think people can do that if its forbidden to propagate images of Muhammed through the media(fuck it that's my interpretation of belief) or force them to make breasts a certain size and it will spin these seedy fuck out and they won't want it I'm thinking. 

Children under 10-12 don't have breasts. children above 10-12 have certain sized breasts I mean fuck around with a perceived age gap of 4-5 years, 13 or 15-18 as opposed to whatever the fuck goes on now. 

See if seedy men want to masturbate to Japanese chicks that look 8 with massive breasts... Oh wait that's how they actually look in real life as adults. Who the fuck knows because they beat it to tentacles and shit so I don't know how much it will help but better than nothing or this consistency of inconsistencies.


----------



## Pliskin (Jan 7, 2015)

rajin said:


> when you know that act itself is wrong then its fantasy is wrong too .
> .



This is what the left actually believes. 

Man, I am a social democrat and I even I get scared of the communist thought police some of these types endorse.

I mean, really whats next. Ban roleplaying as the villain? Ban Gta ?


----------



## Cromer (Jan 7, 2015)

Stealing is wrong. Ban Lupin the Third!

Adultery is wrong. Ban Desperate Housewives!

Assassination is wrong. Ban Naruto!


----------



## korykal (Jan 7, 2015)

rajin said:


> this is why movies are authorised and given rating naa? .
> gruesome scenes are often censored in media .
> whatever else to be said i have already done so .
> 
> ...



You are taking a very deep and complex problem and treating it as if its clear cut and obvious.
We are not dealing with just pedophilia or objectification , we are dealing with their source, human nature , which has both productive and destructive sides to it. And it is this source that is also manifested in fiction of all sorts. 

It's not the fiction, it's WHY the fiction is produced and enjoyed by so many people that you should question.

And then you will reach a very dangerous crossroad. The fiction exists because the urges exist in some people. What will you do ? "Delete" them for a better society ? ( because it's puerile to think you can just talk them out of things that are not even a voluntary choice like what they find attractive ) . 
And then what ? You do realize that objectification of women and children is not the worse thing depicted in fiction right ? How about murder ? torture ? kidnap ? drug use ? By your logic they can all, in fiction , harm our society sooo ... ban 90% of fiction and then execute the one that used to enjoy it as potential murderess , thieves , rapists etc ?

Do that and find that it is you that has become the true evil .

It's not an easy issue to tackle .


----------



## baconbits (Jan 7, 2015)

♦Diamante♦ said:


> Would rather have people jerk it to anime children than real ones.



That may be true but there's still something wrong with a mind that is entertained by the thought of having sex with a child.  That's not even to say it should be illegal; merely that it is disturbing.

Just as its disturbing to love porn that includes simulated rape.  Again, that isn't to say it should be illegal, but it still is a sign of a disturbed mind.



Pilaf said:


> The funny thing is that social conservatives often accuse liberals of being illogical and acting on our feelings, but the kneejerk way they react to "perversion" and other "crimes" is the most utterly irrational thing I've ever witnessed.



Do you ever respond to anything a conservative actually says or do you just plan on responding to random conservative thoughts "you once heard"?


----------



## BashFace (Jan 7, 2015)

Pliskin said:


> Citation needed.
> 
> Also why stop there, why not ban depictions of violence? Or depictions of crimes in a positive light. Or anything you dissaprove of.



It itself is deviant material but it can't be classified as such because its desensitized and organized lines when its spoken of, but it seems like people put their hearts into their lolicon porn or whatever. If I drew a plot on a piece of paper as if I was about to commit a terrorist event but didn't write the name of the building I was attacking could someone still say that is worth the investigation or seizing of material or is it obscene enough to call illegal? I think of course you can just the same as you can identify something as a child porn depiction in front of a jury if need be. If the building matches another building it doesn't matter because their is no name or clear identity or corporate logo attached to it?

Violent criminals(not sex offenders) aren't deviants by the classic sense, violent criminals are deviants in the way they broke common law and were punished for it. There is no punishment for people into this perverse shit and I think there should be. We're violent and timid in different levels because we're animals we aren't all kiddy fuckers or seeing 50 shades of grey like its made out to be. The things child porn is compared too to minimize the bluntness of peoples comments is extraordinary. Like comparing child porn depictions to violence is the easiest way to get it under the radar... 

Force the producers of this shit to give them certain size boobs and body shapes of actual women or lock them up. We're not retarded, if we had cartoons of infants being sodomized that would be apparent enough to take off the stalls but I'm failing to see the difference beside the ambiguity between the ages. So like I was saying this can be fixed very easily. Its not that hard to ask them to draw appropriately aged women?

I mean we can sacrifice flat chested women being depicted so we don't have to worry about child porn scares right? Do you agree? Freedom of expression and speech is a joke if people can draw kids getting molested and pass it off as a flat-chested ambiguously aged woman? Clear them both out, if it was evident enough a threat or it was like an explosion or something people would throw flat-chested women under the bus in an instant.


----------



## rajin (Jan 7, 2015)

@pliskin so thinking about killing someone makes you the greatest human ever born?
fantasy of child porn makes you the best among the mankind?
if act is wrong so is the thought and every wrong act is done with specific intention and this is why MENS REA exist in LAW .

I find it offensive when your most of porn revolves around raping girls in school uniform.
maybe you have no problem with these kinds of fantasies similarly many find all these fantasies offensive . it just speak the state of mind of such creatures.
healthy mind won't indulge in such gross fantasies .

just associating cherry words with your own profile won't make you one .

@Korykyal my main point is same that media effects you . it surely isn't an easy issue to tackle . 1 thought go and other comes . good to bad and this process goes on and on in mind.  there is demand and so is such content produced .


----------



## Deputy Myself (Jan 7, 2015)

wow Rajin learn how to form proper english sentences


----------



## Pliskin (Jan 7, 2015)

BashFace said:


> It itself is deviant material but it can't be classified as such because its desensitized and organized lines when its spoken of, but it seems like people put their hearts into their lolicon porn or whatever. If I drew a plot on a piece of paper as if I was about to commit a terrorist event but didn't write the name of the building I was attacking could someone still say that is worth the investigation or seizing of material or is it obscene enough to call illegal? I think of course you can just the same as you can identify something as a child porn depiction in front of a jury if need be. If the building matches another building it doesn't matter because their is no name or clear identity or corporate logo attached to it?
> 
> Criminals aren't deviants by the classic sense, criminals are deviants in the way they broke common law and were punished for it. There is no punishment for people into this perverse shit and I think there should be. We're violent and timid in different levels because we're animals we aren't all kiddy fuckers or seeing 50 shades of grey like its made out to be. The things child porn is compared too to minimize the bluntness of peoples comments is extraordinary. Like comparing child porn depictions to violence is the easiest way to get it under the radar...
> 
> ...



I read through that 3 times and came to the conclusion that I lack the amounts of weed to get it,


----------



## korykal (Jan 7, 2015)

rajin said:


> @Korykyal my main point is same that media effects you . it surely isn't an easy issue to tackle . 1 thought go and other comes . good to bad and this process goes on and on in mind.  there is demand and so is such content produced .



Exactly  demand is what makes me think most .
You see if you ban something that won't make it's ... "fans" go away as well.
Just like it was with the alcohol ban in USA in the past. They had to lift it in the end since people still wanted it and the only ones that profited where the mobsters that smuggled alcohol .

What would banning lolicon get you ? The people that used to read it will continue to exist , maybe living next door to you  . And now they will probably fantasize about the kid across the street instead.


----------



## Nep Nep (Jan 7, 2015)

Probably because the age difference is near impossible to perceive. 





Without watching the show which is older?  

May is actually curvier than nurse Joy 



The only way we know she's young is because the show says she is, considering all the characters are drawn similar. 

Are the people that like hentai with May interested in 13 year old girls OR the anime drawing?


----------



## BashFace (Jan 7, 2015)

Pliskin said:


> I read through that 3 times and came to the conclusion that I lack the amounts of weed to get it,



If it wasn't called an abundance of child porn but instead called an abundance of child rape you would know exactly what I was talking about. You don't consider the issue big enough an issue so therefore you underplay the significance of it or compare it to something that should exist as if they're both in the same category. 

Even now you struggle to fathom another point of view, you're right smoke more weed and pretend you're saying something important.


----------



## BashFace (Jan 7, 2015)

Kyokkai said:


> Probably because the age difference is near impossible to perceive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good point, but I think there are some times when you can tell there is something odd about the material. 





*Spoiler*: __ 



 Realized you got the first post before I edited it to violent criminals which is what I was I trying to make the distinction between.(violent criminals and sexual criminals and violent depictions and sexual depictions)


----------



## Nep Nep (Jan 7, 2015)

BashFace said:


> Good point, but I think there are some times when you can tell there is something odd about the material.



Certainly, they just need to observe things properly.  

I'm not sure on banning the actual disturbing material yet, I would say better to be safe than sorry but that would ignore the possible consequences. 

If they want to do it right then they should get into researching how it affects the readers.


----------



## Mintaka (Jan 7, 2015)

rajin said:


> @pliskin so thinking about killing someone makes you the greatest human ever born?
> fantasy of child porn makes you the best among the mankind?
> *if act is wrong so is the thought* and every wrong act is done with specific intention and this is why MENS REA exist in LAW


That sounds like thoughtcrime legislation to me.




> I find it offensive when your most of porn revolves around raping girls in school uniform.
> maybe you have no problem with these kinds of fantasies similarly many find all these fantasies offensive . it just speak the state of mind of such creatures.
> healthy mind won't indulge in such gross fantasies .
> 
> just associating cherry words with your own profile won't make you one


In short you are offended so it should be banned for everyone


----------



## Caitlyn Jenner (Jan 7, 2015)

♦Diamante♦ said:


> Would rather have people jerk it to anime children than real ones.



One could argue that masturbating to anime children could be a gateway to an attraction to real life children.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 7, 2015)

I do hope that the Japanese government does not explicitly ban any illustrated or animated pornography or erotica that portrays adolescent or per-adolescent people, since no actual people are involved in the making of those media.

It would be a very dark day for freedom of speech and artistic expression if such material were to be banned, and it would also start a very dangerous precedent: if such material is banned, why not also ban any media that is excessively violent, or depicts substance abuse, or contains any material that the government does not like? I say that all people must oppose any ban of this material and support the right of artists to produce it, because if the government starts to regulate or ban pornography, it is only a matter of time before they attempt to do the same with everything.


----------



## rajin (Jan 7, 2015)

@korykal banning is the simplest act to do to tackle the problem . its the most convenient way to get away from the problem . it is the easy way out but you can't let such content easily propagate. there exist whole hentai magazines revolving around lolicon porn .

they are propagating fantasies to sooth the mental needs of people whose fantasies itself is a social wrong . people rather than solving their mental issues indulge in such fantasies to make themselves satisfied .

Almost Every Comment including mine hasn't taken the article seriously and gone awry from main topic . problem is such content is openly sold and easily comes into the sight of kids to teens and they are the easiest target to deviate .


----------



## SAFFF (Jan 7, 2015)

Subarashii said:


> [SP=14 going on 40][/SP]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nah she's just a natural born hoe.


----------



## Deputy Myself (Jan 7, 2015)

If I draw two stick figures having sex is that pornographic?
If I draw childsized stick figures having sex is that child porn?
if no, at what level of detail does a drawing depicting naked "childlike humans" cross the line?


----------



## Subarashii (Jan 7, 2015)

[S-A-F];52631668 said:
			
		

> Nah she's just a natural born hoe.


Says the


> King of Thirst


----------



## Deputy Myself (Jan 7, 2015)

also how the balls does Yoko look 40


----------



## Blue (Jan 7, 2015)

Every once in a while some western reporter uses this angle to get some newspapers sold. The proper response is to not give a darn, because Japan sure doesn't.

Also "child porn comics" aren't banned in the US, either. Soooooooo...


----------



## Linkofone (Jan 7, 2015)

Reading these comments.


----------



## korykal (Jan 7, 2015)

rajin said:


> @korykal banning is the simplest act to do to tackle the problem . its the most convenient way to get away from the problem . it is the easy way out but you can't let such content easily propagate. there exist whole hentai magazines revolving around lolicon porn .
> 
> they are propagating fantasies to sooth the mental needs of people whose fantasies itself is a social wrong . people rather than solving their mental issues indulge in such fantasies to make themselves satisfied .
> 
> Almost Every Comment including mine hasn't taken the article seriously and gone awry from main topic . problem is such content is openly sold and easily comes into the sight of kids to teens and they are the easiest target to deviate .



Sigh  

So , people who's fantasies are wrong is it ? And that need to solve their mental issues ? Like how ? Mental treatment ? Brain washing ?

... ok let's try putting it like this. 
Would you agree that chopping people to pieces is worse than pedophilia ?
There are whole film series out there that make explicit use of that . They are called slasher films I think and some are very popular like the Friday 13 series . 

What do you have to say about the people that watch them ? Are their fantasizing about brutally killing people ? Are they a danger ? Should they also be treated for enjoying such movies ?

And kids can access a lot worse than loli on the net , easy . 
Should we monitor and censor the net now ?


----------



## BashFace (Jan 7, 2015)

Deputy Myself said:


> If I draw two stick figures having sex is that pornographic?
> If I draw childsized stick figures having sex is that child porn?
> if no, at what level of detail does a drawing depicting naked "childlike humans" cross the line?



When you make it look like a human being and not sticks? I don't think you thought that out properly. 

When does it become close to human, I'll show you: 

This is fine but still weird nonetheless:



This isn't:


And of course this traditional one, probably the most grotesque of them all:


*Spoiler*: __ 





The potty man.




The minute it has identifiable human characteristics or some sort of way to proportionate the image and draw the conclusion its a child being depicted. 

Dress them up or make them look like kids and thats wrong. I can't analyse a thousand photos of stick figures doing it.

If you can't tell I can't argue that but if it looks like child porn than it should be checked in my opinion(what I mean is I'm not one to investigate closer on that shit so I'd get someone else too, like a stick figure porn photography expert) but I don't agree with things the way they are now let alone watching stick figures do it until it gives me a stroke.


----------



## Deputy Myself (Jan 7, 2015)

so which of those gets you into trouble?


----------



## Mintaka (Jan 7, 2015)

The child sized one?


----------



## Deputy Myself (Jan 7, 2015)

mods ban him


----------



## BashFace (Jan 7, 2015)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I do hope that the Japanese government does not explicitly ban any illustrated or animated pornography or erotica that portrays adolescent or per-adolescent people, since no actual people are involved in the making of those media.
> 
> It would be a very dark day for freedom of speech and artistic expression if such material were to be banned, and it would also start a very dangerous precedent: if such material is banned, why not also ban any media that is excessively violent, or depicts substance abuse, or contains any material that the government does not like? I say that all people must oppose any ban of this material and support the right of artists to produce it, because if the government starts to regulate or ban pornography, it is only a matter of time before they attempt to do the same with everything.



I've heard this misconception before. 

I think us being animals and drugs being plants basically makes the argument that violence and drugs are more natural or are always more relevant/necessary than sexually depicting children and their body shapes or whatever people call it. 

I haven't seen cave paintings of people fucking children but I have seen plenty of humans taking down animals(violence) and using the plants(drugs) or other minerals to paint. I just argue that it isn't something that is necessary to uphold the artistic community or its freedom. I think the reasoning can be argued just as easily for as against and I don't believe it should be null and void automatically favouring the prior because a conclusion is struggling to be made around the world.

If the NSA can spy on people because terrorists exist than flat-chested women can't be depicted in art without it being clear as to their age or having something there that defies what would be presumed. Like making it so the breasts have to be a certain size to the rest of their body. 

Allowing people to masturbate to drawings of children can lead to further sexual deviances or real children being affected. I'm not really making a massive stretch with correlations there. Why would we allow it so people could be harmed as opposed to limiting or denying the expression of controversially aged art? It sounds hectic but I can't make/depict a terrorist plot even if it uses no names(corporate or person), if it looks like it targets a local building than I don't think that should be ignored because I didn't sign off on it or I didn't put the buildings name in capital letters. Its ridiculous if it was that in your face or obvious, it just comes down to how significantly grotesque or dangerous people view it.

I say I view it as potentially extremely dangerous and someone says freedom of speech, it becomes controversial and it just goes back to the prior. Like I'm the minority in this shit and it disturbs me because I wonder how tolerant the people are who jack off to this shit let alone the people I debate about with this.



Deputy Myself said:


> mods ban him



They'll probably upgrade people to Super Moderator or Administrator for learning how to argue for lolicon...


----------



## hcheng02 (Jan 7, 2015)

What counts as "animated child erotica"? Because you have alot of ecchi animation that deals with high school teenagers (who are considered minors) that would technically become illegal if this ban came in place. Stuff like Kill la Kill, Mahou Sensei Negima, To-Love Ru, High School DxD are just the ones that I can think off the top of my head. Mangaka like Ken Akamatsu would be jailed for their works.


----------



## Subarashii (Jan 7, 2015)

Deputy Myself said:


> also how the balls does Yoko look 40



because 14 going on 25 doesn't sound as snazzy as 14 going on 40
I was making a point about her sexual maturity at such a young age and the lack the older girls' sexual maturity though.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 7, 2015)

[S-A-F];52631668 said:
			
		

> Nah she's just a natural born hoe.



*And the girl in your set is probably mid-20s. ww


OP might be on to something...

...but it doesn't matter, since it's a drawing. How many cases of the real thing happening do we have in Japan vs America?*


----------



## Atlas (Jan 7, 2015)

Jerusalem said:


> One could argue that masturbating to anime children could be a gateway to an attraction to real life children.



The same way people argue killing in videogames is a gateway to killing in real life.


----------



## Hand Banana (Jan 7, 2015)

♦Diamante♦ said:


> The same way people argue killing in videogames is a gateway to killing in real life.



Both situations have happened.


----------



## BashFace (Jan 7, 2015)

♦Diamante♦ said:


> The same way people argue killing in videogames is a gateway to killing in real life.



That's a massive misconstruing you just did there. Not at all similar. 

Violence is inherit, following and haunting our species however child porn or paedophilia is not at all something we can say all humans have the capacity for or that it is a trigger for normal people.(people who don't view the material especially) Let alone the difference between fantasizing and masturbating to images of/depicting sex with children as opposed to punching someone. 

Its so fucking different its not funny. Its actually quite scary nobody else pulled that up. 

The way it is argued is: Well its quite controversial and arguably deviant this stuff, people may be deviants in hiding who watch this stuff or being lead/encouraged in that direction. 

The way video game violence is argued: I don't want my kid to act violently...

Mothers who believe that video games are leaving an impression on childrens minds are not actually believing that be the intention but apart from how uncommon it is, they don't want their kids doing violent shit. If they are trying to keep violent material away from their child its pretty inevitable that they'll see violent material... The news even having people blow up heaps, people on fire, riots etc.

False statistics but say that >70% of people are capable of violence however <1%(I hope this is actually true) are capable of depicting children in sexual acts or other paedophillic shit. Violence being nearly tribal and sometimes funny, whereas children depicted in sex acts isn't really meant to be taken as some art form, its something people masturbate to. Its intention is self-explanatory its porn and they're trying to sell it. 

If hes a good kid though he won't be seeing children depicted in sexual acts or if hes a better adult...(you fill in the blanks)


----------



## Admiral Kizaru (Jan 7, 2015)

Whilst I'm quite libertarian on these things, if there is some actual legitimate non biased evidence or studies which does demonstrate that this sort of material leads on to more serious crimes then I'd be all for a ban. 

Until then let it be.


----------



## Zhariel (Jan 7, 2015)

Well they aren't fucking each other anymore apparently, so, what's the harm of cartoons*?




*(cartoons that don't get muslims butthurt)


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 7, 2015)

I'm keeping my eyes on you, ye pedophiles


----------



## Shukumei (Jan 7, 2015)

If high-school-age yaoi manga/doujinshi became illegal ...


----------



## Pilaf (Jan 7, 2015)

baconbits said:


> Do you ever respond to anything a conservative actually says or do you just plan on responding to random conservative thoughts "you once heard"?





The answer to your question is "yes".


----------



## baconbits (Jan 7, 2015)

Pilaf said:


> The answer to your question is "yes".



I'm looking forward to the day you respond to an actual argument.  It will truly be a new dawn.


----------



## Nep Nep (Jan 7, 2015)

Pilaf said:


> The answer to your question is "yes".



You always seem cranky when you post in the Cafe, perhaps you should take a vacation.


----------



## kluang (Jan 7, 2015)

Pilaf said:


> "We're Japan. We raped Korean and Chinese women in WWII and we're not ashamed of that, but we don't want people to think we're perverts because imaginary children are somehow being abused."





To Love Ru Darkness and several good ecchi mangas have a bit of lolicon, so shut up and get your high and mighty ass and disturb something else, like European or soemthing


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jan 7, 2015)

> "I want to make it disappear," she says. "By 2020, when the Summer Olympics will take place in Japan, we have to turn Japan into a country which people don't call a perverted culture."



Good luck with that. Japan is such a sexually "unique" culture relative to western nations that you couldn't possibly clean it all up in a mere five years. It would take at least a generation or two before they managed to curb this stuff or at least shove it all in dark corners where the sun doesn't shine.


----------



## Jeff (Jan 7, 2015)

I went to a shop in Akihabara which is right off the main road and there were those fuck dolls that were literally the size of an infant, with child-like features and everything...those dolls literally lined the walls of the place too.

That I find more concerning, for whatever reason.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 7, 2015)

Jeff said:


> I went to a shop in Akihabara which is right off the main road and there were those fuck dolls that were literally the size of an infant, with child-like features and everything...those dolls literally lined the walls of the place too.
> 
> That I find more concerning, for whatever reason.



*Well, you went to Akihabara. They have everything there. *


----------



## Pilaf (Jan 8, 2015)

baconbits said:


> I'm looking forward to the day you respond to an actual argument.  It will truly be a new dawn.




There's a new dawn every day at like 6am, dude. On most of those days I'm on here addressing actual arguments. I've been doing that since before I knew who the fuck you even are. I didn't gain my massive reputation by having zero substance. It's just that with the likes of you, there's no point in being serious. A man of your age is set in his ways. There's still hope for some of these kids, though.


----------



## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Jan 8, 2015)

I d rather have legal hentai pedo manga than child pornography,
None gets hurt. Who cares.


----------



## Zyrax (Jan 8, 2015)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> I d rather have legal hentai pedo manga than child pornography,
> None gets hurt. Who cares.


The tea lovers do, Appearantly in the UK they banned all unusual porn and view fetishes as a mental illness. Quite ironic seeing how Japan is far more strict about conforming than any western country


----------



## Punished Pathos (Jan 8, 2015)

Zyrax said:


> The tea lovers do, Appearantly in the UK they banned all unusual porn and view fetishes as a mental illness. Quite ironic seeing how Japan is far more strict about conforming than any western country



Japan would rather turn things into a commodity than ban them :ignoramus


----------



## Xiammes (Jan 8, 2015)

Punished Pathos said:


> Japan would rather turn things into a commodity than ban them :ignoramus



Japan would rather ignore it and sweep it under the rug, Anime is rather niche in Japan, the hobby as a whole is widely looked down upon if you are anything but a kid watching saturday morning cartoons.


----------



## Wilykat (Jan 8, 2015)

Does that mean existing comics and movies would get banned if it featured nudity?  If they want my copy of My Neighbor Totoro (which featured 2 topless girls briefly), they'd have to pry em from my cold, dead hand. And it'd look bad for Disney if Japan banned My Neighbor Totoro.


----------



## BashFace (Jan 8, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Whilst I'm quite libertarian on these things, if there is some actual legitimate non biased evidence or studies which does demonstrate that this sort of material leads on to more serious crimes then I'd be all for a ban.
> 
> Until then let it be.



Why would need a graph to prove that paedophilia art is not some art form but porn that's use is self explanatory? Its not like violence or violent art which can be comical or have other interpretations or even the fact its almost inevitable to see in the world.

Its like arguing that people who're into BDSM porn or have heaps of fetishes wouldn't carry those circumstances out in real life, it doesn't make sense the dissonance I'm seeing. When its directly depicting sexually explicit images of children or things that look like children and its exploiting child like images to sell and excite in such a nature why is it such a controversy over whether it should be banned?


----------



## Overhaul (Jan 8, 2015)




----------



## ThunderCunt (Jan 8, 2015)

Face sitting and female ejaculation is the most dangerous thing that ever happened on her majesty's Island, it is only appropriate to ban it.


----------



## DavyChan (Jan 8, 2015)

The reason being is that there is nothing wrong with it. I mean why don't you ban animal porn (which there is plenty of) too while ur at it. It's simulated people so ultimately no1 is getting hurt. that is actually an outlet that pedo's or whomever the fck can use to stop them from doing serious crimes later on down the road. Literally no need to censor it just becuz u don't understand or like it.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jan 8, 2015)

The Japanese will go extinct soon enough let them do what they want.


----------



## cnorwood (Jan 8, 2015)

Cromer said:


> Personally, I find lolicon disgusting and disturbing. And yet I'm strongly against the sort of thoughtt police mindset that basically goes "it's squicky; ban it!" As long as it harms no one, no banning.



Yea I basically feel the same way, sometimes I look at the signatures of some of the posters here and I just shake my head, but in the end its not harming anyone so there shouldn't be a ban just because it disgusts me


----------



## Shukumei (Jan 8, 2015)

cnorwood said:


> sometimes I look at the signatures of some of the posters here and I just shake my head


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 8, 2015)

rajin said:


> @pliskin so thinking about killing someone makes you the greatest human ever born?
> fantasy of child porn makes you the best among the mankind?
> if act is wrong so is the thought and every wrong act is done with specific intention and this is why MENS REA exist in LAW .
> 
> ...



So you want to censor thought?


----------



## cnorwood (Jan 8, 2015)

Shukumei said:


>



    oh you


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 8, 2015)

rajin said:


> if act is wrong so is the thought



No its not, basically you have the right to think about and fantasize about whatever the fuck you want.

Child sex is wrong not because is childsex, is wrong because you are having sex with someone with a non mature body and mind and you cause damage.

In hentai and lolicon there is no child that get hurts, as such it is not wrong because you are not causing harm to anyone.

So no, if you want to equate a thought being wrong with an act being wrong you have to first find WHY the act is wrong and no "ewww gross" is NEVER a reason for something being wrong.

When you go into hentai and lolicon you will find the WHY for the wrongness no longer present and as such you can't claim is wrong because the elements that made it so are absent.


----------



## AeolusXII (Jan 9, 2015)

I'm fine with that so long as they ban the Bible and Qur'an as well.

Seeing as they're filled with i*c*st, underage sex, murder, slavery, rape...

Hmmm, now where did I put that lube.. and my Bible.


----------



## Krory (Jan 9, 2015)

Oh man.

The edginess.


----------



## Punk Zebra (Jan 9, 2015)

♦Diamante♦ said:


> Would rather have people jerk it to anime children than real ones.



That in its self is still fucked up.


----------



## cnorwood (Jan 9, 2015)

Adrolas said:


> I never knew what was so wrong about child pornography. *It's just younger females*.



That is exactly what is wrong with child pornography........


----------



## reaperunique (Jan 9, 2015)

This discussion suddenly became awkward. 
I mean, why not take up arms and kill the members of doujjinshi circles and hentai artists that are free to draw what they want as long as they don't try to instill hate and anger into other people or hurt others.

Who are they to think that they can just draw whatever they want... oh wait...



It might be an extreme comparison but extremes sometimes help make things more clear.


----------



## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Jan 9, 2015)

If Japan should deal with anything it's the "idol" weirdness. That can be argued to be exploitative of real children.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 9, 2015)

reaperunique said:


> This discussion suddenly became awkward.
> I mean, why not take up arms and kill the members of doujjinshi circles and hentai artists that are free to draw what they want as long as they don't try to instill hate and anger into other people or hurt others.
> 
> Who are they to think that they can just draw whatever they want... oh wait...
> ...



*You sound awfully defensive. ww*


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 9, 2015)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> If Japan should deal with anything it's the "idol" weirdness. That can be argued to be exploitative of real children.



Oh yeah that is some bizarre shit. Especially with the female seiyuus, like being discouraged from having any kind of relationship with a man to maintain their 'purity' in the eyes of their fans.


----------



## Hyperion1O1 (Jan 9, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Oh yeah that is some bizarre shit. Especially with the female seiyuus, like being* discouraged from having any kind of relationship with a man to maintain their 'purity' in the eyes of their fans*.



IIRC, one idol completely shaved her head somewhat recently because of this as apology.

Sick fucks


----------



## Mintaka (Jan 10, 2015)

For the same reason France has yet to ban drawing the prophet Mohammed?


----------



## PureWIN (Jan 10, 2015)

Cromer said:


> Personally, I find lolicon disgusting and disturbing. And yet I'm strongly against the sort of thoughtt police mindset that basically goes "it's squicky; ban it!" As long as it harms no one, no banning.



Pretty much this.


----------



## HaxHax (Jan 10, 2015)

I hear they also draw murders.. S-scary.


----------



## Мoon (Jan 10, 2015)

> LiLy, a popular writer of books for young women - Sex in the City, Tokyo-style, she says - told me about her school days when men would approach her and her friends and offer money for their socks or panties.LiLy


I want to point out that the input this author felt the need to address in this article, was that of a  fetishistic nature, a irrelevant issue from the nature of lolicon ,or paedophilic behavior actually.(unless she was under the age of 18,then _maybe_ these two behaviors coincide)


----------



## Shinryu (Jan 10, 2015)

Im pretty sure loli=average japanese girl so is not really pedo is it now.

Also this is Japan we are talking about the only reason they even acknowledge us is because we nuked them into submission.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 10, 2015)

Silly to ban anything that is a moneymaker.


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> I can understand people not liking it, not a fan of it myself but ban it? That seems excessive.



Banning the selling of depictions of pedophilia seems excessive?

I don't think it's something that should be mass-produced.


----------



## Zyrax (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Banning the selling of depictions of pedophilia seems excessive?


By that logic we Hannibal should be banned for depictions of cannibalism


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

Zyrax said:


> By that logic we Hannibal should be banned for depictions of cannibalism



If a large chunk of our population had the inborn sexual urge to kill and eat people, then yeah, I'd get behind not mass-producing fantasy material for them either. You wouldn't?​


----------



## Zyrax (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> If a large chunk of our population had the inborn sexual urge to kill and eat people, then yeah, I'd get behind not mass-producing fantasy material for them either. You wouldn't?​


No because if there were people into that type of stuff  banning it wouldn't make then turn normal. Otherwise we could turn Homosexuals straight by banning gay porn


----------



## Punished Pathos (Jan 10, 2015)

Japanese people think differently 

Meh, they'll get more westernized in thinking if this all keeps up.


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

Zyrax said:


> No because if there were people into that type of stuff  banning it wouldn't make then turn normal. Otherwise we could turn Homosexuals straight by banning gay porn



Let's not compare gays to pedophiles. Let's focus on what the key problem is here: rape. 

Obviously, banning rape porn wouldn't eliminate the urge to rape, but it wouldn't feed it. When you fantasize about something frequently, you wear down your inhibitions. This leads to escalation.​


----------



## Zyrax (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Let's not compare gays to pedophiles. Let's focus on what the key problem is here: rape.
> 
> Obviously, banning rape porn wouldn't eliminate the urge to rape, but it wouldn't feed it. When you fantasize about something frequently, you wear down your inhibitions. This leads to escalation.​


You are being ignorant, a lot of people who like Rape porn and even some women who do still see rape as in actual rape as a horrible thing, Not only that But have a healthy normal life.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> If a large chunk of our population had the inborn sexual urge to kill and eat people, then yeah, I'd get behind not mass-producing fantasy material for them either. You wouldn't?​



No, because people are responsible for their own actions.



> When you fantasize about something frequently, you wear down your inhibitions.



Unsubstantiated.


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

Zyrax said:


> You are being ignorant, a lot of people who like Rape porn and even some women who do still see rape as in actual rape as a horrible thing, Not only that But have a healthy normal life.





I'd love to have this discussion with somebody who, on one hand, cums to the fantasy of rape on the regular, and on the other hand, says that actual rape is wrong. ​


Seto Kaiba said:


> No, because people are responsible for their own actions.



With that logic, let's make all drugs freely available. I'm sure it will result in a better society.​


----------



## Tatijana Moonchan (Jan 10, 2015)

Shinryu said:


> Also this is Japan we are talking about the only reason they even acknowledge us is because we nuked them into submission.



You are being harsh


----------



## hcheng02 (Jan 10, 2015)

AeolusXII said:


> I'm fine with that so long as they ban the Bible and Qur'an as well.
> 
> Seeing as they're filled with i*c*st, underage sex, murder, slavery, rape...
> 
> Hmmm, now where did I put that lube.. and my Bible.



Might as well ban the Game of Thrones TV series and books while you're at it. You see and read about graphic rape, i*c*st (Craster's Keep, Jaime/Cersei), pedophiliia (Dany's married to Drogo when she's 13 in the books), and more.


----------



## Pliskin (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> With that logic, let's make all drugs freely available. I'm sure it will result in a better society.​




Possibly. The War On Drugs failed phenomenaly for instance.​


----------



## Han Solo (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> With that logic, let's make all drugs freely available. I'm sure it will result in a better society.​



It'd be better than the war on drugs, that's for sure.

Banning thought crimes is pretty stupid, and tends to be counter productive.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> With that logic, let's make all drugs freely available. I'm sure it will result in a better society.​



The War on Drugs is a failure as stated before, so there is some basis on that logic. Nice try, though.

You just want the material banned because you find it personally distasteful, despite it being fictional content of which no one was exploited. I worry and do not trust people that base their positions purely on emotion, because they tend to sway like blades of grass in the wind.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Banning the selling of depictions of pedophilia seems excessive?
> 
> I don't think it's something that should be mass-produced.



People have the right to draw whatever the fuck they want.


----------



## petrichor (Jan 10, 2015)

Collection of lolicon pictures and/or videos is no different than the collection of actual pornographic materials that involves kids. It's sick. It has to stop. Japan should really get going into banning lolicon.


----------



## Pliskin (Jan 10, 2015)

petrichor said:


> Collection of lolicon pictures and/or videos is no different than the collection of actual pornographic materials that involves kids.



Astute Observation. The layman might have been thrown off by the lack of real children in the pictures and labeled them as different, but you sir are a true connoisseur of philosophy and avoided that pitfall gracefully.


----------



## Krory (Jan 10, 2015)

So, just for note purposes, those defending the "lolicon" and "shotacon," would you also approve of nude or pornographic drawings of realistic-children (although not of a likeness or a representation of an actual existing person), or fictional stories depicting sexual encounters with children?

Or are you strictly okay with it when it comes to cartoons?


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You just want the material banned because you find it personally distasteful, despite it being fictional content of which no one was exploited.



I'm against selling content that panders to a base with criminal urges. They need therapy, not "nobody gets hurt!" child pornography apologists. This manga forum seems full of them. Coincidence?​


Orochibuto said:


> People have the right to draw whatever the fuck they want.



Anime porn is still porn. Anime child porn is still child porn. A 14 year old girl does not have the right to post a picture of herself naked on the internet in the US. Is drawing it that different?

Even so, people may have the right to draw whatever they want, but they certainly don't have the right to sell whatever they want. Governments do step in at that point. Hence the OP.​


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

Pliskin said:


> Possibly. The War On Drugs failed phenomenaly for instance.



Better or worse than Opium Wars, do you think? The War On Drugs is a failure for many reasons, but if we lifted all banned drugs, you can bet there'd be a truly phenomenal number of drug addicts.

(Marijuna isn't bad, which was the big failure, but a lot stuff is.)​


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 10, 2015)

krory said:


> So, just for note purposes, those defending the "lolicon" and "shotacon," would you also approve of nude or pornographic drawings of realistic-children (although not of a likeness or a representation of an actual existing person), or fictional stories depicting sexual encounters with children?
> 
> Or are you strictly okay with it when it comes to cartoons?



If it's fictional, and the production of the content didn't involve exploitation of minors. How is that hard to understand?


----------



## petrichor (Jan 10, 2015)

_Didn't involve exploitation of minors_

Such materials may not exploit children _directly_. But lolicon exploits something intangible, as it sexualize the innocence and the youthful looks of children. It's just as sickening as actual child pornography.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 10, 2015)

petrichor said:


> _Didn't involve exploitation of minors_
> 
> Such materials may not exploit children _directly_. But lolicon exploits something intangible, as it sexualize the innocence and the youthful looks of children. It's just as sickening as actual child pornography.



Just because you find it distasteful isn't a good enough reason to ban it. That basis sets a poor precedent. Why is it hard for some of you to get that?


----------



## petrichor (Jan 10, 2015)

Tell me, Seto, what's _tasteful_ about seeing and watching lewd depictions of little kids in the form of _art_?


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Anime porn is still porn. Anime child porn is still child porn.​




No is not, this is why there is a specific label for anime porn and is not said "porn". And even if it was child porn you miss the point, child porn is not bad because is child porn, but because of what child porn brings, ie harm of children.

Lolicon Hentai lacks the characteristic that makes child porn bad, as such should not be banned.

Under that logic then grown up adults who because of some disease and/or genetic function have the body and looks of children should never be married to and every adult that have sex with them should be treated as a child abuser. They are not, despite that at least a considerable number of people who have sex with this adults get turned on and are literally fucking a body that is externally equal to the body of a child. Yet it is not wrong, because it lacks the elements that make fucking with children bad.

TLDR; Child porn is not bad "Because is Child Porn" the name "Child Porn" is just a label that usually makes CP reprehensible because this label contains certain elements, if you take away those elements then it cease to be reprehensible, the name by itself is just a name and holds no inherent reason to be prosecuted. It is WHY is usually prosecuted which is important take away the WHY and it becomes nothing but a inert label that does nothing beyong making people frown upon.



Strategoob said:


> A 14 year old girl does not have the right to post a picture of herself naked on the internet in the US. Is drawing it that different?



Yes it is different. Even then you are going at straws to try to blur the line as much as possible, obviously if someone wants to use that to make a point and say "See? Its the same!" by making a super realistic painting of a real life naked child is going to succeed. It doesn't change the issue that you have the right to draw whatever the fuck you want.

Not to mention it goes beyond, the inherent right to draw whatever the fuck you want is one thing. There is also the thing that wanting to limit that right tends to make the right possible to be limited by a lot of more fronts.

For instance if you ban lolicon hentai just for the reason that "eww is creepy" you open the door for a lot of things to be banned because of the grandiose reason that "eww is creepy."

As such as you can see this has a twofold reason to exist. It exists as a right on itself and also because it is practical as otherwise it would open the way for censorship of wider stuff to happen.

On the other hand against these 2 good reasons the only argument for censorship you can offer is that "is ewww" and that's it.



Strategoob said:


> Even so, people may have the right to draw whatever they want, but they certainly don't have the right to sell whatever they want. Governments do step in at that point. Hence the OP.



No one gets harmed here, so no reason for the government to step in. You just want it banned because you find it personally disguisting, your argument is emotional, not rational.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 10, 2015)

petrichor said:


> Tell me, Seto, what's _tasteful_ about seeing and watching lewd depictions of little kids in the form of _art_?



Why are you hard to grasp this? It's not a matter of taste or distaste, it's a matter of being fiction. Being personally disgusted is not a valid reason to ban fictional content.


----------



## Krory (Jan 10, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Just because you find it distasteful isn't a good enough reason to ban it. That basis sets a poor precedent. Why is it hard for some of you to get that?



Ain't questioning, just getting some data. For some people they draw the line at cartoons. Others, not so much.


----------



## petrichor (Jan 10, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Why are you hard to grasp this? It's not a matter of taste or distaste, it's a matter of being fiction. Being personally disgusted is not a valid reason to ban fictional content.



Fiction or not, it's a twisted sexualization of children. It may not look real due to them being drawn instead of being captured in life, but the only difference is that lolicon is depicted through illustration. As I have said in my previous post, it's an intangible explotation.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 10, 2015)

petrichor said:


> Fiction or not, it's a twisted sexualization of children. It may not look real due to them being drawn instead of being captured in life, but the only difference is that lolicon is depicted through illustration. As I have said in my previous post, it's a tangible explotation.



Yes, it's gross and disgusting I realize that. I feel that it is too. Still not a good enough reason to ban it however. It's not real, period. 

As much  contempt as I may have for them personally, those that stick to the fictional content have committed no real crime. Drawing or writing about horrific acts is not a crime, nor should it ever be.


----------



## kidgogeta (Jan 10, 2015)

petrichor said:


> Fiction or not, it's a twisted sexualization of children. It may not look real due to them being drawn instead of being captured in life, but the only difference is that lolicon is depicted through illustration. As I have said in my previous post, it's an intangible explotation.



People who are so worried about other people partaking in fictional content simply have too much free time. End of story. It isn't hurting anyone. Your feelings about it are irrelevant. You are a very vocal minority. Your argument panders to the uneducated.

Fiction and reality will never follow the same guidelines. You will never win this battle you are trying to fight.Too many people on their high horse in this section, all whom do detestable shit in their everyday lives but or more concerned with what other people are doing.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 10, 2015)

petrichor said:


> Fiction or not, it's a twisted sexualization of children. It may not look real due to them being drawn instead of being captured in life, but the only difference is that lolicon is depicted through illustration. As I have said in my previous post, it's an intangible explotation.



How can you exploit something that doesn't exist? Going by that logic then we should ban all comics that have sexy superheroines after all SJW would say "IT OBJECTIFY WOMEN!"

Nearly 100% of all Eroges should be banned, because is explotiation of female bodies.

Why also not ban all political cartoons as they disrespect real life politicians?


----------



## luminaeus (Jan 10, 2015)

it is very strange, but japan has alot of crazy shit and I prefer to just leave it in japan. if someone wants to animate child porn then by god let them do whatever floats their boat. just because you dont like it doesnt mean it should be banned (becoming cliche now, isnt it?). plus it's... not real. if it was, then that's a different story


----------



## kidgogeta (Jan 10, 2015)

petrichor said:


> Tell me, Seto, what's _tasteful_ about seeing and watching lewd depictions of little kids in the form of _art_?




Love it when people go on crusades like this in on the safe anonymity of the net, but wouldn't dare be so preachy about it in the real world, where people can actually properly confront them about their idiotic views.

I find out of shape people pretty detestable but I'm not actually sitting at home putting any thought into how twisted and wrong I think their lifestyle is. Because I'm not concerned with what anyone else is fucking doing unless its hurting someone.


----------



## cnorwood (Jan 10, 2015)

petrichor said:


> Collection of lolicon pictures and/or videos is no different than the collection of actual pornographic materials that involves kids. It's sick. It has to stop. Japan should really get going into banning lolicon.



So does having a collection of action movies no diffrent than having a bunch of snuff films? I dont loli but these posters are right. The fundamental difference between this and actual child porn is that child porn involves real children who get hurt. This is the same line of thinking where people think we should ban violent video games. In the end of the day its really no harm no foul, so why care?


----------



## luminaeus (Jan 10, 2015)

kidgogeta said:


> Love it when people go on crusades like this in on the safe anonymity of the net, but wouldn't dare be so preachy about it in the real world, where people can actually properly confront them about their idiotic views.
> 
> I find fat people pretty detestable but I'm not actually sitting at home giving putting any thought into how much I hate their life style. Because I'm not concerned with what anyone else is fucking doing unless its hurting someone.



its because you CAN debate like this on the internet. you cant just go to some meeting and debate random topics irl. you are implying that people irl have the means to crusade about like this to others. I cant just go to japan and demand this and that


----------



## kidgogeta (Jan 10, 2015)

Any debate that was ever worth anything happened face to face.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 10, 2015)

kidgogeta said:


> Love it when people go on crusades like this in on the safe anonymity of the net, but wouldn't dare be so preachy about it in the real world, where people can actually properly confront them about their idiotic views.
> 
> I find out of shape people pretty detestable but I'm not actually sitting at home putting any thought into how twisted and wrong I think their lifestyle is. Because I'm not concerned with what anyone else is fucking doing unless its hurting someone.


*When you start getting upset and want to hit someone over something they've said, it's no longer a debate anyway.
*


----------



## kidgogeta (Jan 10, 2015)

I never implied things getting physical. I only want that a person with such strong intolerance towards a group of people have the confidence to say the same things in an environment where he /she can also be judged.

I've seen so many smug people end up being humbled in an actual formal debate.


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> No is not, this is why there is a specific label for anime porn and is not said "porn". And even if it was child porn you miss the point, child porn is not bad because is child porn, but because of what child porn brings, ie harm of children.



You misspoke. Child porn _harms_ children in the act of being made. Mass producing and selling illustrated depictions of child porn likely _brings_ them harm by sexualizing them in popular culture.​


Orochibuto said:


> It doesn't change the issue that you have the right to draw whatever the fuck you want.



I gave you this point already. Draw what you want. Write what you want. But you can't distribute everything you want. For example, you can't distribute written works meant to incite crimes.

And letting pedophiles freely buy books of cartoon pedophilia is going to incite criminal urges in them because of their sexual orientation, and therefore incite crimes.​


----------



## kidgogeta (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Mass producing and selling illustrated depictions of child porn likely _brings_ the harm of children, however, by sexualizing them in popular culture.​.[/indent]


This statement is wrong. You are either going to be attracted to Lolis or you aren't. There is no such thing as a "normal" heterosexual male who looked at lolicon and developed an attraction towards under age girls. He MIGHT discover an attraction that he was repressing, however.

The issue here is that for some reason people have a problem with a group of people, who have urges that they didn't choose to have, partaking in fictional content. They treat it like a gateway drug, in fact the addiction has always been there. 

Imagine  if homosexual relationships were for whatever reason illegal, but there were various homosexual animes and doujins available, and people were trying to get those banned because they might encourage irl homosexual activity. ITS THE EXACT SAME SHIT.

Just think about for a second. Two consenting adult males. Perfectly fine. Adult male and underage male not ok because younger male can't give consent. THAT"S FINE. It's about safety. WE ALL GET THAT. But don't for a fucking second try say that Homo is " natural" while Pedo isn't. They fit right into the same category. Sexual deviation.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 10, 2015)

kidgogeta said:


> I never implied things getting physical. I only want that a person with such strong intolerance towards a group of people have the confidence to say the same things in an environment where he /she can also be judged.
> 
> I've seen so many smug people end up being humbled in an actual formal debate.


*Nothing about meeting in person makes a debate more formal. Not that these debates are formal, but formal arguments are those you'd see professors and the like make.

The only difference between debates online and in person is that debating online is usually easier because of the abundance of time to gather sources, consult others, check rhetoric, and reply in general. There's also less pressure to impress and get your best points across when the person you're arguing with isn't right next to you or across from you.*


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

kidgogeta said:


> You are either going to be attracted to Lolis or you aren't. There is no such thing as a normal heterosexual male who looked at lolicon and developed an attraction towards under age girls. He MIGHT discover an attraction that he was repressing however.



Alternatively, have you asked yourself why 16-year-olds willfully sending naked pics to boyfriends can be considered distributors of child porn? They're not suffering, nor is there boyfriend a p*d*p****.

But if it gets out, it _incites_ actual child porn lovers. And Loli porn does the exact same fucking thing.​


----------



## Muah (Jan 10, 2015)

Because the comics where the kids complain are the hottest . It's like futa sure I like  comics of chicks with dick but in real life the only thing like that is gross and misleading so people get their evilness out in drawings. For 99 percent of human history fucking a 12 year old wasn't weird so if people want to draw that than fuck you for getting antsy. Don't start any it leads to actual pedophilia either.


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

^  wtf?


----------



## kidgogeta (Jan 10, 2015)

^The existence of beastiality doujins likely bring harm to real live horses. That's literally your logic.


----------



## kidgogeta (Jan 10, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *Nothing about meeting in person makes a debate more formal. Not that these debates are formal, but formal arguments are those you'd see professors and the like make.
> 
> The only difference between debates online and in person is that debating online is usually easier because of the abundance of time to gather sources, consult others, check rhetoric, and reply in general. There's also less pressure to impress and get your best points across when the person you're arguing with isn't right next to you or across from you.*



If i can't look at the person at the person I'm debating in the face, how will I know I've won? Do people admit they are wrong over the internet? Do people debate about topics they aren't all that invested in irl? Can you find me a debate that had any kind of significant stakes that happened over the internet and not in person?


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> You misspoke. Child porn _harms_ children in the act of being made. Mass producing and selling illustrated depictions of child porn likely _brings_ them harm by sexualizing them in popular culture.​



No it doesn't. Under your logic then we should ban EVERY eroge right? It likely brings harm to women by sexualizing them.

We should ban EVERY action movie right? It likely harms people by inciting crimes.



Strategoob said:


> I gave you this point already. Draw what you want. Write what you want. But you can't distribute everything you want. For example, you can't distribute written works meant to incite crimes.
> 
> And letting pedophiles freely buy books of cartoon pedophilia is going to incite criminal urges in them because of their sexual orientation, and therefore incite crimes. [/indent]



Buy 

You are aware MOST of the lolicon work available is free online, right? In the current era, wanting to ban business distribution is pointless to redundancy.

If you wanted to put a significant stop to lolicon you would have to directly limit the right to draw whatever the fuck you want, there is no other way around it.

You can say it incite crimes, and other people can say it actually PREVENTS crimes by giving them an outlet for their fetish which harms no one.

No one gets harmed, you can't want something banned just because you don't like it.


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

kidgogeta said:


> Love it when people go on crusades like this in on the safe anonymity of the net, but wouldn't dare be so preachy about it in the real world, where people can actually properly confront them about their idiotic views.



Yeah, you have it backwards. I'd love for you or Orochibuto to debate the harmless merits of Loli porn in public. I'm sure American opinion would totally be on your side.​


----------



## kidgogeta (Jan 10, 2015)

Regardless who's side the public was on you would still lose the debate. Case in point burden of proof on you that fictional content is harmful. You made the claim. Prove it.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Yeah, you have it backward. I'd love for you or Orochibuto to debate the harmless merits of Loli porn in public. I'm sure American opinion would totally be on your side.​



I and many people already gave you multiple answers.

Despite what you think you would be surprised to see that in fact the public would INDEED side with us. Unless of course it was in a biased forum or the presentator of the live debate was biased against us.

No merits need to be shown, for something to be allowed it doesn't need to be meritorious, as such what merits it has? None, and it needs none. That would be the first answer I would give to your biased question in a public debate.

Is not about lolicon again, is about the right of drawing whatever the fuck you want. That's it. And to defend that right you need to defend what you like and what you don't like. As the famous quote said "I may not like what you have to say, but I will defend to death your right to say it."

So why it should be allowed there are 2 answers:

1) The right of drawing whatever the fuck you want on itself

2) If you take away lolicon, you then potentially take away A LOT of things and you make it so vague that it can result even in political censorship. If you ban lolicon because "Its ewww horrible" then every potlician that feels personally offended can have any satire of him or her banned, we can ban all movies about crimes, we can ban every videogame, we can ban every eroge because it offends the SJW community. And ALL the arguments you are making for lolicon "It potentially incites real harm" can be said about ALL these branches of fiction.

So yes you have the defend of a right on itself and also you have its practical outside of lolicon application.

On the other hand your entire arguments ammounts to "its disgusting, ban it."


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

Do not put words in my mouth. There is a reason Japan was considered the international hub for real child pornography. Embracing anime child pornography is not healthy.

In allowing it to run rampant, you desensitize people to it, leading to further blurring the line, such as having five year old in swim suits in sexually provocative poses ("Junior Idol.") 

Pedophilia is largely a developmental disorder. Being raped as a child often results in the child becoming a p*d*p****. Being exposed to a lot of p*d*p**** depictions may be similarly dangerous.​


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 10, 2015)

By the way, here is an example of an online formal debate that follows formal debating rules, the one that was against loli had THE EXACT SAME argument you are doing,  the pro-loli side won when non surprisingly the anti-loli could not back up his claims or keep debating in a logical manner and thus forfeited:



Some butthurts guys even made a debate about a guy being a p*d*p**** because he supports lolicon:



Which of course they lost olymplically 

There was also a debate about a guy needing to be jailed for having lolicon doujins:



Which of course they lost.

Any noticed pattern? NOT EVEN ONCE of the formal debates against Lolicon was won by the anti-lolicon side.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 10, 2015)

kidgogeta said:


> If i can't look at the person at the person I'm debating in the face, how will I know I've won? Do people admit they are wrong over the internet? Do people debate about topics they aren't all that invested in irl? Can you find me a debate that had any kind of significant stakes that happened over the internet and not in person?


*I've admitted I was wrong about evolution to afgpride, for instance.  

It depends on the person. People's tendencies are people's tendencies, and simply changing the setting of the debate and the style from written to oral won't instantly cause them to lost their stubbornness if that's their personalty.

But your last sentence wasn't related to your original point.*


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Do not put words in my mouth.​




When did I?



Strategoob said:


> [There is a reason Japan *was *considered the international hub for real child pornography. Embracing anime child pornography is not healthy.



Was? So its not now then, yet lolicon has remained the same or in fact increased, THUS you just gave an argument against yourself.



Strategoob said:


> In allowing it to run rampant, you desensitize people to it, leading to further blurring the line, such as having five year old in swim suits in sexually provocative poses ("Junior Idol.")



Proof please.



Strategoob said:


> Pedophilia is largely a developmental disorder. Being raped as a child often results in the child becoming a p*d*p****. Being exposed to a lot of p*d*p**** depictions *may be* similarly dangerous.



So basically, you have no proof. Yet still want to take away people's right to draw whatever the fuck they want just because you don't like it.


----------



## kidgogeta (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Pedophilia is largely a developmental disorder. Being raped as a child often results in the child becoming a p*d*p****. Being exposed to a lot of p*d*p**** depictions may be similarly dangerous.​



LOL. Where do you get your information from? It's 2015. How about you try citing something. Christ. 

I'm really baffled. Do people actually think that pedophilia is entirely preventable and a developmental disorder but homosexuality is determined at birth? Sheer ignorance.

One is ok because its between adults the other isn't because it involves children. That's how it should be. I'm happy with that. But I'm not gonna pretend that they don't fall into the same category. Nobody should.


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 11, 2015)

Orochibuto, I would think the proof of escalation following desensitization would be self-evident with "Junior Idol" trailing Loli porn. Or just common sense. But sure, let's wait for proof.​


kidgogeta said:


> I'm really baffled. Do people actually think that pedophilia is entirely preventable and a developmental disorder but homosexuality is determined at birth?



What part of somebody's mind remaining attracted to undeveloped humans while they're physically fully developed doesn't sound like a developmental disorder to you?​


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Orochibuto, I would think the proof of escalation following desensitization would be self-evident with "Junior Idol" trailing Loli porn. Or just common sense. But sure, let's wait for proof.​




Except that you are making it sound like if you can find in literally every store a loli comic in Japan. Perhaps I could agree to some restrictions of when it is sold (like near schools for example) but to actually BAN it?

No, again people have the right to draw whatever the fuck they want and people have the right to have a drawing of whatever the fuck they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone. It is up to people what they do with the drawings and how they decide to react to them not to the ones who draw. For the nth time this isn't even about defending lolicon but about defending the right to draw whatever the fuck you want.

Also you must be aware Lolicon is a fetish ON ITSELF, a lot, I would in fact dare to say probably THE MAJORITY would not fuck a real child or are attracted to real life children while they fap to loli. Because again a drawing is not the same a real stuff.

I agree with (your point regarding) junior idol because it involve real children. In any case, then ban junior idols. I don't know if it is warranted as I haven't investigated on that, but I say that at least an argument to ban junior idols is leaps and bounds more acceptable than an argument to limit people's rights to draw whatever the fuck they want.

I am a writer, I don't do lolicon stories, but IF I WANT I have the right to do so and I am happy knowing that, if I want to make a story about a promiscuous 13 year old girl or about Muhammed having doggy style sex with a demon I fucking can, as a writer I find it unacceptable people imposing limits of what I can and can't write, is a fucking fundamental right.​


----------



## Risyth (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Orochibuto, I would think the proof of escalation following desensitization would be self-evident with "Junior Idol" trailing Loli porn. Or just common sense. But sure, let's wait for proof.​
> 
> 
> What part of somebody's mind remaining attracted to undeveloped humans while they're physically fully developed doesn't sound like a developmental disorder to you?
> ...



*It's sort of both. It's a developmental disorder, and it's abnormal--the same as all paraphilia. But like most fetishes (and I just say most because maybe they're some rare exceptions I might not know about), you would suffer from pedophilia from a very young age. It's as permanent as your sexual orientation, but simply growing up, you'd realize "I like X" and only find out what that really means when you're older. There's not usually a solid moment where you develop its symptoms. It sort of just eases in from the onset.*


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 11, 2015)

If you can agree with it not being sold near schools, then why not ban its circulation altogether? Banish it to the darknet. Condemn it because it should be condemned.

Let people access it illegally if they must. That way there's no confusion in their minds that what they're looking at is not healthy or condoned by society. No wiggle room for progression.

The Japanese man in the article, who was candid and unashamed about his fetish for anime pedophilia, is the kind of mindset that leads to the atmosphere  that allows "Junior Idol" in the first place.

I realize this is a "slippery slope" argument, but we've already witnessed a _public_ sliding, let alone all the terrible things that go on behind closed doors in Japan.​


----------



## Krory (Jan 11, 2015)

My favorite kind of science is the one you make up - like Strategoob is doing.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 11, 2015)

This issue began when people in Japan worried about how foreigners would feel when their country hosts the upcoming Olympics, but I say that Japan should not worry about that; when foreigners enter a country that is not their own, _they_ must adjust to that country, the country should not adjust to them. If non-Japanese people do not like certain media of Japan, that is their problem, not Japan's.


----------



## GrimaH (Jan 11, 2015)

Er, wasn't the thread about loli hentai, rather than pedophilia?



DemonDragonJ said:


> This issue began when people in Japan worried about how foreigners would feel when their country hosts the upcoming Olympics, but i say that Japan should not worry about that; when foreigners enter a country that is not their own, _they_ must adjust to that country, the country should not adjust to them. If non-Japanese people do not like certain media of Japan, that is their problem, not Japan's.



Japan's politicians have declared otherwise.


----------



## kidgogeta (Jan 11, 2015)

^Strategoob the science guy has determined that they are in fact one in the same. He's also doing a great job at providing sources for his information.


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 11, 2015)

GrimaH said:


> Er, wasn't the thread about loli hentai, rather than pedophilia?



Loli hentai and child pornography, actually. Do you think there's a huge difference between the two?​


----------



## kidgogeta (Jan 11, 2015)

The human mind is so simple that a couple of classes in psychology 101 and you can already determine what creates a p*d*p****.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 11, 2015)

Japan is kinda like the panda bear.


----------



## GearsUp (Jan 11, 2015)

Japan is like japan

There are no substitutes


----------



## Atlas (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Why would I provide bust my hump to provide sources to an anime forum full of loli-lovers?​



I'm sure those fathers were fapping to loli hentai on the daily.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> If you can agree with it not being sold near schools, then why not ban its circulation altogether? Banish it to the darknet. Condemn it because it should be condemned.​




No it should not, again is art, is fiction, is ideas. Banning it altogether would break into the right to draw whatever the fuck you want.​


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 11, 2015)

♦Diamante♦ said:


> I'm sure those fathers were fapping to loli hentai on the daily.



The ones that raped their daughters? Do you think that father would have been more or less likely to have watched simulated depictions of it before? Either Loli or Junior Idol. Whatever.

Secondly, let's say he raped his son too. Would that son be more or less likely to look at loli hentai and Junior Idol stuff in order to make sense of what happened to him when he was four? 

(Are veterans more likely to watch or read fiction depicting war?)

Would the son, upon maturing, be more or less likely to touch a kid too because of what happened to him? 

Make sure you provide studies for your thoughts, or else they're worthless.​


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 11, 2015)

GearsUp said:


> Japan is like japan
> 
> There are no substitutes



Tell that to the declining population that consumes this shit.


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 11, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> No it should not, again is art, is fiction, is ideas. Banning it altogether would break into the right to draw whatever the fuck you want.



I'm pretty sure you can't draw/write and distribute whatever the fuck you want though, dude. Miller v. California banned obscenities after all. Is fucking kids obscene?​


----------



## GrimaH (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Loli hentai and child pornography, actually. Do you think there's a huge difference between the two?​



Considering one is basically super-deformed drawings and the other is live action media depicting real life children actually being sexually abused?

You think?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 11, 2015)

GrimaH said:


> Japan's politicians have declared otherwise.



I wish that they had not, because I believe that every country should retain its cultural identity, and never compromise it because other countries may find it to be odd; I am certain that other nations may find certain aspects of American culture to be unusual, but I am in favor of the United States not attempting to appease foreigners. If any non-Americans are not fond of our culture, they must either tolerate it or not live in this nation, and the same is true with Japan, as well.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> And part of condemning something is banning it. Freedom  is important, but nobody should be free to do that. [/INDENT]



Free to do whatever the fuck you want? Yes ye should and yes you can. It harms no one.

You also forgot that AGAIN, Lolicon is a fetish ON ITSELF. Some Lolicons WOULD NOT fuck real children as they look different from Hentai ones, at times a reason for the turn on IS the cartoon look which no child in this universe has.

Lolicon has also many different ramifications and branches, do you want to ban ALL OF THEM? Because you would then enter into a plethora of different debates ON TOP of this one that you are losing.

I am not going to enter in them, because on the first place what is debated her is not lolicon PER SE, is about the fundamental right to draw and have drawings about whatever the fuck you want.

And even if you wanted to debate lolicon PER SE you would still find a mountain of arguments and evidence which you would likely lose against, you are trying to tear down a building when you can?t even touch its foundation (the right to draw whatever the fuck you want), let alone the actual arguments that could be made about said building (lolicon).


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 11, 2015)

GrimaH said:


> Considering one is basically super-deformed drawings and the other is live action media depicting real life children actually being sexually abused?
> 
> You think?



What if they're photo-realistic fictional children being sexually abused? Would you be okay with that too?​


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 11, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> Lolicon has also many different ramifications and branches, do you want to ban ALL OF THEM? Because you would then enter into a plethora of different debates ON TOP of this one that you are losing.



Let's get one thing clear. I'm losing a loli-con debate on an anime forum that's probably full of loli-^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".). If this were a national debate, you'd be fucked no matter how masterfully rational you were.

Secondly, as I said before, Miller vs California banned obscenity, which is defined as “utterly without socially redeeming value.” Does Loli porn have socially redeeming value, in your opinion?​


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2015)

The Comic Book Legal Defense Fund explains it better than I can:


----------



## GrimaH (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> What if they're photo-realistic fictional children being sexually abused? Would you be okay with that too?



If they're identifiably based off of actual child pornography, then no.

It all depends on whether it actually involves real children. People can argue all day that it's icky or morally reprehensive but the same thing could be said of violent comics (especially as they do often depict photo-realistic fictional people being shot up illegally), and that also shouldn't be banned for the same reason.


----------



## Krory (Jan 11, 2015)

>Whining about people on an anime forum
>Itachi avatar
>Keeps using "anime fans" as an insult and excuse


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 11, 2015)

GrimaH said:


> If they're identifiably based off of actual child pornography, then no.
> 
> It all depends on whether it actually involves real children. People can argue all day that it's icky or morally reprehensive but the same thing could be said of violent comics (especially as they do often depict photo-realistic fictional people being shot up illegally), and that also shouldn't be banned for the same reason.



The Supreme Court has banned obscenity in freedom of press before.​


krory said:


> >Itachi avatar
> >Keeps using "anime fans" as an insult and excuse



There's nothing wrong with liking manga. I'm a huge manga fan. There's something wrong with liking loli though, and you definitely seem like a loli-lover.​


----------



## GrimaH (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Let's get one thing clear. I'm losing a loli-con debate on an anime forum that's probably full of loli-^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".). If this were a national debate, you'd be fucked no matter how masterfully rational you were.​



Nice straw man and ad hominem there.
Being rational here actually gets you places, but you're not being rational.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> In a paradoxical way, people tend to fixate on experiences similar to emotional trauma so they can slowly deal with it. e.g. a girl with serious daddy issues dating men like her shitbag father.
> 
> In this sense, it's not uncommon to learn that pedophiles were abused themselves as children. This may be why pedophilia was far more prolific in ancient Rome, for example.
> 
> ...


*There was  done on this, in fact, and it determined that there were more pedophiles claiming this happened to them--after being caught--than those people who could been accounted for.

But even if we suppose all of these self-reports by pedophiles is true (the same people saying: the child didn't say no/the child wanted it), that would just mean the fetish was latent in them, as I've said. Otherwise, you're suggesting all of these children who were molested or forced/tricked into intercourse liked it completely, so much that it caused them to develop a personality disorder based on how old they were at the time of having sex with someone who wasn't a minor.

And by saying they greatly enjoyed being violated, you're saying they spontaneously gained a sexual attraction to other children--based on their age at the time of being violated.

And this continues to be the case for every p*d*p****: supposedly, they can't "see the light" of pedophilia until they experience the adult and child sex personally and see how enjoyable it really is. But instead of being attracted to their molester/rapist or others that person's age, they suddenly feel the sometimes uncontrollable urge go after people who are now as old as they'd been then.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me. If you want to say they're scarred, then they'd more than likely be abusing the children as a form of vengeance. Note that not every person who sexually abuses a child is a p*d*p**** either: the study uses examples of those types of people and searching up "nonpedophilic sex offender against children" would give you more insight. You can primarily or completely be attracted to adults and still perform sexual acts on or with a child. And you can have a fetish that happens to involve a child (e.g., podophilia, macrophilia, necrophilia etc.) but not be sexually aroused by the idea of intercourse with the children themselves.

I don't agree with that idol culture either, but I was never talking about that or trying to come up with a solution to anything. I'm just telling you how these fetishes work.*


----------



## GrimaH (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> The Supreme Court has banned obscenity in freedom of press before.



The Supreme Court is not an absolute authority that ends all debates on anything it decides on.


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 11, 2015)

GrimaH said:


> Nice straw man and ad hominem there.
> Being rational here actually gets you places, but you're not being rational.



It's neither. After he pointed out that the majority here agreed with him, I pointed out that it's a manga forum, and people that like hentai tend to like anime. (A response, not a strawman.)

Hence there'd likely be a higher percentage of people that watch Loli here than in the general population. Or do you disagree with that estimation, Mr. Rational Poster?

Similarly, it's equally rational to say that the sexually conservative United States would eat anybody who argued what you're arguing completely alive. Do you disagree with that?

Hence my conclusion that his appeal to the majority was entirely dependent to the location of the debate. On an anime forum. (And obviously, I love manga.)​


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Let's get one thing clear. I'm losing a loli-con debate on an anime forum that's probably full of loli-^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".). If this were a national debate, you'd be fucked no matter how masterfully rational you were.​




No sir, you are not losing a loli-con debate because you HAVE NOT EVEN STARTED to debate lolicon.

You are debating about the right to draw whatever the fuck you want, a right that nationwide is defended.

You are correct, I would not debate about lolicon per se I am not stupid. I would board the issue from the relevant angle. I have no need to move the fight inside the building where you can't even beat the outer floor.



Strategoob said:


> Secondly, as I said before, Miller vs California banned obscenity, which is defined as “utterly without socially redeeming value.” Does Loli porn have socially redeeming value, in your opinion?



You are aware now at days a case by obscenity is virtually unwinnable right? Unlike in fucking 1971.

Now at days there are massively well funded multi million dollars organizations like the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund.



Whose entire purpose is making any obscenity case unwinnable and they have done a damn well good job in doing that. Most obscenity cases do not even reach the courts and get dropped thanks to these efforts. Is a fucking pain in the ass for the government to win an obscenity case.


----------



## GrimaH (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> There's nothing wrong with liking manga. I'm a huge manga fan. There's something wrong with liking loli though, and you definitely seem like a loli-lover.​
> tl;dr



 And here I thought you were serious


----------



## rajin (Jan 11, 2015)

STRATEGOOB leave it man . when virtual identities can't even accept their mental deficiencies nothing can be done here .

whatever they say i supported tokyo ban and i am gonna support every ban made to prevent children from any kind of sexual exploitation .

these type of virtual identities have no problem with such content at all .


their so called self-righteous liberalism is as much infectious as is feminism extermism . liberal extremist .


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 11, 2015)

GrimaH said:


> The Supreme Court is not an absolute authority that ends all debates on anything it decides on.



I feel like that's exactly what it does in the legal world, when it comes to banning obscene material, for example.​


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Similarly, it's equally rational to say that the sexually conservative United States would eat anybody who argued what you're arguing completely alive.
> 
> Hence his appeal to the majority being completely relative to the location of the debate.[/INDENT]



Did you even looked at the post where I liked for you FORMAL DEBATES in a fucking formal debate forum that is 100% about formal debate and thus not manga biased in any way where *ALL* the anti-loli debates were lost? ALL OF THEM? Including one of then what was an outright butthurt by someone calling a loli supporter a p*d*p****.

Yeah, I doubt it would be different here. Considering that again, there is multi million dollars organizations which is a LAWYER FIRM in the "sexually conservative US" whose entire job is to make obscenity virtually unwinnable and they are fucking successful organizations.


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 11, 2015)

Honestly, Orochibuto, I did not and I'm sorry for that. (I was too paranoid to click the link haha.) Anyway, I concede. It was really nice discussing this with you all. Thank you.​


----------



## GrimaH (Jan 11, 2015)

rajin said:


> STRATEGOOB leave it man . when virtual identities can't even accept their mental deficiencies nothing can be done here .
> 
> whatever they say i supported tokyo ban and i am gonna support every ban made to prevent children from any kind of sexual exploitation .
> 
> ...



Hello, liar.

Also, that shit you linked to BTW is called a gravure underage idol video. Which, as "video" implies, is not "drawn pictures". Which most people here are talking about, and have explicitly said so.
Though it wouldn't matter to you, considering how little you value honesty.


----------



## rajin (Jan 11, 2015)

hello, idiot

maybe you need to check the article before increasing foolishly the post count.
virtual identities have no value their views do . sigh . 

I stand firm = their exist DRAWN LOLICON HENTAI 13- years and that should be banned


----------



## HaxHax (Jan 11, 2015)

Core argument: I think it's gross so it should be banned


----------



## Krory (Jan 11, 2015)

FUN FACT: That SenManga.Raw you have in your sig includes links to a series that has suggestive to downright lewd images of a character that is only twelve years-old (and certainly looks it). But that seems to be okay for you, because I assume it's a group you work for or support, right?

So...


----------



## HolyHands (Jan 11, 2015)

These debates always seem to go the exact same path. Regardless of the personal disgust people have towards lolicon, most liberal/libertarian-minded people are going to be resistant to the idea of banning drawings, regardless of their offensive content.

Unless someone can provide a solid argument that doesn't boil down to "it's gross" or "it makes you rape children" (an unsubstantiated claim), then this debate won't sway many people to support a ban.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2015)

rajin said:


> hello, idiot
> 
> maybe you need to check the article before increasing foolishly the post count.
> virtual identities have no value their views do . sigh .
> ...



So basically...........


----------



## rajin (Jan 11, 2015)

Exactly . I am also Against Ecchi and i never read ecchi content except SEO KOUJI
you think they listen me?
i have nothing against futari ecchi = ADULT[18+] characters already married . sex education

i think every kind of sexual exploitation is wrong and especially done to children and hence i stand firm . LAW stand by my side too and i say clearly say it here : Unhealthy Mind is the one indulging in such fantasies . 

if i get the right i will definitely go against most of the Idiotic Fan-service. It is not creativity = it is only an attempt to earn livelihood by using LUST as RAW MATERIAL and gross depiction of women [thought objectification can't be cured = it gonna live forever]


----------



## Wilykat (Jan 11, 2015)

Haven't seen so many black kettle and pot since the last time I went to Bath Bed and Beyond.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2015)

rajin said:


> LAW stand by my side too and i say i clearly say it here : Unhealthy Mind is the one indulging in such fantasies .



It isn't, most democracies including the US support the right to draw whatever the fuck you want. Now at days unlike the case refered by Strategoob which happened in 1971 is nearly impossible to win an obscenity case.

Everytime you want to pursue an obscenity face you now have (if the person is well informed) to face a multi million dollar lawyers firm specifically focused on making obscenity laws useless and have done largely an excellent job doing so.

Most cases are dropped before even reaching court as soon as the prosecutor knows the pain in the ass is going to be going through it nearly as soon as they know the firm is stepping in.


----------



## Krory (Jan 11, 2015)

So even though they are doing something that is illegal, according to you, you still work for/support them and even advertise them?

So you _choose_ to advertise what is, by your own words, child pornography, rajin?


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2015)

krory said:


> So even though they are doing something that is illegal, according to you, you still work for/support them and even advertise them?
> 
> So you _choose_ to advertise what is, by your own words, child pornography, rajin?



You mean like a mercenary?


----------



## Krory (Jan 11, 2015)

More like a hypocrite.

"I'm totally against this because I think it's sick and depraved, but here, click this link to this group I like/work for that do the exact same thing. I MEAN. I STILL TOTALLY HATE IT, AND IT'S TOTALLY ILLEGAL, but I'll still show everyone and spread it far and wide."


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2015)

Unlike what Rajin wants you to believe IS NOT illegal, let alone wrong.


----------



## rajin (Jan 11, 2015)

@oro know-all = i won't say anything after . democracy . there exist a word like censorship too . 
@krory i participate in SOL,romance,shoujo genre : sad fact is shoujo is full of abusive males .  

I have nothing against the publication of Ecchi content,Ecchi magazines if it isn't includes 13- years chidren . Most Lolicon is there for MOE attack .

as i said earlier i am also against IDIOTIC FANSERVICE . money grabbing,money earning through objectifying women and living off at the LUST of males is wrong but ban it is also wrong unless it includes Exploitation of Children .

feed your own mouth with your own words . Child Pornography is different from Child Exploitation .
Child Exploitation is broad term including other activities too

i have disagreement with many here but i respect you being a human
similarly i have many disagreements with them .


----------



## Zyrax (Jan 11, 2015)

Go back to tumblr Rajin


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2015)

rajin said:


> @oro know-all = i won't say anything after . democracy . there exist a word like censorship too .



And vast majority democratic countries don't support censorship, your point?

You said law is on your side, it isn't.

If I was a millionaire I swear I would be tempted to go the US with a suitcase with lolicon manga, only to rub it on the faces of pro-censorship people when I am acquited. Yes, is THAT HARD to win an obscenity case.

And you say law is on your side? Lol.

Seriously, a prosecutor saying to me I am being charged with obscenity in the US scares me less than a super scolding from my mother.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Jan 11, 2015)

Zyrax said:


> Go back to tumblr Rajin



That moment when you realize that SJW is everywhere


----------



## rajin (Jan 11, 2015)

lolicon manga is different from lolicon hentai . u talking about lolicon hentai naa?
as far as i know in most countries u can land in prison for having such content
long ago news was post at nf for being sent to prison for having such content in laptop and that wasn't the only case

thankfully i had bookmarked this article and the latest BBC article too : i had 1 USA/CANADA case too . 


simply put : if you think about killing someone then u are at wrong . u need to revive your humanity and correct yourself 
there is tons of rape fantasy porn : everyone gonna say that is good too ?
if you take pleasure in wild fantasies and fulfill your mental desires through them then you are at wrong . unhealthy mind .

it is our responsibility to make ourselves better human and get rid off these wild fantasies.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2015)

rajin said:


> lolicon manga is different from lolicon hentai . u talking about lolicon hentai naa?
> as far as i know in most countries u can land in prison for having such content
> long ago news was post at nf for being sent to prison for having such content in laptop and that wasn't the only case
> 
> ...


----------



## Atlas (Jan 11, 2015)

Good luck changing the way people think.


----------



## Krory (Jan 11, 2015)

And rajin still ignores the fact that he is currently supporting and advertising - according to him - child pornography.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2015)

rajin said:


> there is tons of rape fantasy porn : everyone gonna say that is good too ?



This is the problem with trying to put EVERYTHING under a white/black carpet, you know that there are multiple branches of rape fantasy right?

For example there is the Monster Girl fantasy rape setting which is about guys enjoying themselves being "raped" and forced into marriage by women that are stronger than them.

Of course knowing you are a SJW you will most likely...... somehow say that is wrong and that even THINKING (lol) about it is wrong. But anyone reasonable would find nothing wrong with that as is not even a fantasy that involves harming anyone.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2015)

rajin said:


> @oro i don't know whether u read the article or not but whatever u have mentioned didn't happened . i didn't googled for him so i don't . but he was caught . judge made crucial remarks and was given 9 month prison time.



And his sentence was suspended.



"but the sentence was suspended as long as he does not break the law in the next two years." 



rajin said:


> 2nd virtual identities don't forcefully put their ill-words into others mouths .
> fantasising of murdering someone isn't any of godworshiping act or social service
> it is wrong and it is your thinking that is leading to such fantasy and u have the RESPONSIBILITY to correct yourself . No one gonna do this job for you .



If you are not harming anyone, no. Under your logic then GTA and 99.99% videogames should be banned.



rajin said:


> 3rd i don't watch porn though i have checked various genres of it. your desire and wish to see such content not put you at any superior moral ground . fulfilling mental desires [which in the eyes of law is wrong] through the virtual fanatasies not make u superior being ..



Not everything you do has to be aimed at becoming a superior being.

And this comes from someone who believes in evolution and self-evolution as the maximum principle, the apex of evolution being whatever you call God.

And no fulfilling mental desires is not weong in the eyes of the law, at most you can saw fulfilling CERTAIN mental desires through SPECIFIC virtual fantasies is wrong in the eyes of the law of some countries.

Also wanting to monitor and ban people's thoughts doesn't make you a superior being either, it in fact makes you intolerant and makes you a perfect description of the meme I posted where you think everything you support is a human right and want everything you don't like banned.


----------

