# Aizen(Bleach) vs. Boros(OPM)



## Dreams of Tommorow (May 6, 2020)

location: la


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## Divell (May 6, 2020)

What’s Aizen’s dc and speed?


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## Dreams of Tommorow (May 6, 2020)

Divell said:


> What’s Aizen’s dc and speed?


with all the novel scaling and shit I assumed he could keep up with opm god tiers now barring bald head

idk though


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## Divell (May 6, 2020)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> with all the novel scaling and shit I assumed he could keep up with opm god tiers now barring bald head
> 
> idk though


What are the upgrades?


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## Medjaynegus (May 6, 2020)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> with all the novel scaling and shit I assumed he could keep up with opm god tiers now barring bald head
> 
> idk though


He would be above ichibei in durability for tanking attacks from soul king yhwach, tanking his own hado 90, and nearly dragging down the royal realm. Boros cant put him down and I doubt he can be ko'ed seeing as nanana's ability only paralyzed him and mugetsu didn't put him to sleep. Aizens versatility lets him win in a long battle along with better regeneration and being immortal.


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## Imagine (May 6, 2020)

Boros punts him to the moon.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## Akira1993 (May 6, 2020)

Imagine said:


> Boros punts him to the moon.


He can easily come back via hogyoku teleportation or a seikamon gate.

And he is immortal and can come back from being completely destroyed, Boros can't put him down.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Akira1993 (May 6, 2020)

Divell said:


> What’s Aizen’s dc and speed?


Planet level from scaling to Yhwach and EOS Ichigo.

He stomp.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Imagine (May 6, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> He can easily come back via hogyoku teleportation or a seikamon gate.
> 
> And he is immortal and can come back from being completely destroyed, Boros can't put him down.


IIRC he didn't get the Yeehaw/Ichigo scaling unless the topic was brought back up and I missed it?


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## Akira1993 (May 6, 2020)

Imagine said:


> IIRC he didn't get the Yeehaw/Ichigo scaling unless the topic was brought back up and I missed it?


It was brought back and apparently he got it in his durability at least as he showed the feat in that department.

Overall, he is viewed as being comparable to EOS Ichigo.

Reactions: Like 1


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## wowfel (May 6, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> It was brought back and apparently he got it in his durability at least as he showed the feat in that department.
> 
> Overall, he is viewed as being comparable to EOS Ichigo.


The only planetary feats comes from movie hollow form hype or Juha Bach scaling. No one scales to Juha Bach keeping the soul societey and human world in balance. Or the telekinesis feat he did in the royal palace.


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## Imagine (May 6, 2020)

>viewed as comparable but only gets the durability

Ight, sure. 

If his durability is planet level then he'd eventually win. Boros' planet razer leaves him mostly useless and not even Saitama is planet level. 

If the scaling is nonsense then Boros dunks him.


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## Akira1993 (May 6, 2020)

wowfel said:


> The only planetary feats comes from movie hollow form hype or Juha Bach scaling. No one scales to Juha Bach keeping the soul societey and human world in balance. Or the telekinesis feat he did in the royal palace.


The Planetary feat comes from the Soul King maintaining the Realms or able to literally change or destroy those 3 Realms.

Honestly speaking, Planet level is a huge lowballing.

The Real world is a planet.

The Soul Society's size is unknown, should be at least as big as the real world as it is the same world but for the souls.

The Hueco Mundo's size is unknown.

You may ask, why EOS Ichigo get scaled? It was confirmed in the novel that he is a Soul King candidate.

And Yhwach absorbed said Soul King, so he get the scaling easily.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The World (May 6, 2020)

Boros punts him into space


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## Akira1993 (May 6, 2020)

Imagine said:


> >viewed as comparable but only gets the durability
> 
> Ight, sure.
> 
> ...


The scaling, at least in his durability flies.

And he can use his mind manipulation hax to mindrape him.

Don't see how he stand a chance, Aizen solo alone the entire OPM verse with ease.


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## wowfel (May 6, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> The Planetary feat comes from the Soul King maintaining the Realms or able to literally change or destroy those 3 Realms.
> 
> Honestly speaking, Planet level is a huge lowballing.
> 
> ...


For Ywach or the soul king to do that is understandable because they had the powers of the soul king. Eos Ichigo doesn’t scale just because he is a candidate for soul king. A cantidate doesn’t mean he has the same powers of the soul king.


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## Akira1993 (May 6, 2020)

The World said:


> Boros punts him into space


Useless as he can easily come back.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Akira1993 (May 6, 2020)

wowfel said:


> For Ywach or the soul king to do that is understandable because they had the powers of the soul king. Eos Ichigo doesn’t scale just because he is a candidate for soul king. A cantidate doesn’t mean he has the same powers of the soul king.


He does as he has the power (raw power to handle 3 Realms by himself) to be himself a Soul King, they aren't giving him the power of the previous Soul King.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (May 6, 2020)

wowfel said:


> For Ywach or the soul king to do that is understandable because they had the powers of the soul king. Eos Ichigo doesn’t scale just because he is a candidate for soul king. A cantidate doesn’t mean he has the same powers of the soul king.


Yes, he does after all he is the one that defeated said Ywatch and that without his Bankai that was destroyed so he could not pose a  real threat to  Ywatch.


If we only use shown feats then only those that blow up a planet are planet level and that is hilarious.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Akira1993 (May 6, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Yes, he does after all he is the one that defeated said Ywatch and that without his Bankai that was destroyed so he could not pose a  real threat to  Ywatch.
> 
> 
> If we only use shown feats then only those that blow up a planet are planet level and that is hilarious.


They can retort that he defeated him BEFORE he recovered all his powers + Almighty again.

Best way to scale him is using the canonical novel which confirmed Ichigo to be a Soul King level at least in raw power.


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## wowfel (May 6, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> He does as he has the power (raw power to handle 3 Realms by himself) to be himself a Soul King, they aren't giving him the power of the previous Soul King.


If that statement was true he would have rivaled ywach in power in his final fight. We don’t know how becoming a soul king works in bleach. Ichigo has never been capable of showing he can handle 3 realms.


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## Ren. (May 6, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> They can retort that he defeated him BEFORE he recovered all his powers + Almighty again.
> 
> Best way to scale him is using the canonical novel which confirmed Ichigo to be a Soul King level at least in raw power.


That is negated that he did not use Bakai that is not even a normal bankai so yeah!


wowfel said:


> If that statement was true he would have rivaled ywach in power in his final fight. We don’t know how becoming a soul king works in bleach. Ichigo has never been capable of showing he can handle 3 realms.


3 Reals equal 3 planets, he does not have to equal that but his Bankai was negated because it was too dangerous for the one that can destroy 3 realms.

Also, the problem of the fight was never raw power but simple precog to the extreme and future manipulation, the dude saw that his Bankai was too dangerous and he stopped it!


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## Akira1993 (May 6, 2020)

wowfel said:


> If that statement was true he would have rivaled ywach in power in his final fight. We don’t know how becoming a soul king works in bleach. Ichigo has never been capable of showing he can handle 3 realms.


Problem is that Yhwach's raw power is trash compared to Ichigo.

Only reason he easily won is because of his causality manipulation hax via transforming the future on whatever outcomes he want, including his own outcomes.

Ichigo had no means to fight against that hax ability.

He does as Ichibei confirmed it in the novel which is the canonical continuation of the manga after the Quincies War.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Akira1993 (May 6, 2020)

Ren. said:


> That is negated that he did not use Bakai that is not even a normal bankai so yeah!
> 
> 3 Reals equal 3 planets, he does not have to equal that but his Bankai was negated because it was too dangerous for the one that can destroy 3 realms.
> 
> Also, the problem of the fight was never raw power but simple precog to the extreme, the dude saw that his Bankai was too dangerous and he stopped  it!


But Yhwach's power were sealed momentarily during that window of time.

Yes, he has the raw power to literally kill him in Bankai but it is negated via his causality manipulation hax via the Almighty.


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## Medjaynegus (May 6, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> The Planetary feat comes from the Soul King maintaining the Realms or able to literally change or destroy those 3 Realms.
> 
> Honestly speaking, Planet level is a huge lowballing.
> 
> ...


Hueco muendo is finite and soul society is just as large as world of the living.


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## Akira1993 (May 6, 2020)

I also want to indicate that the Soul King actually didn't created those Realms.

Far long ago, those 3 Realms were just a single Realm were both the living and dead coexisted, including the bad souls or the Hollow.

The Prime Soul King was the strongest entity of the entire verse and with his power as a linchpin, he separated that single gigantic realm into three realms from dimensions separating them, and those worlds became the living world, Soul society and Hueco Mundo, of course he maintained their existence via his powers for several millions of years.

Of course Soul King's power is capable of maintaining the collapse of those Realms in their specific dimensions, making him easily at least via harsh lowballing possible, just Planet level +

Of course, the Soul King was a retarded character as he sacrificed himself and allowed the Nobles family to mutilate his body without doing a thing against it.

Reading the Novel makes me realize that the Evil are the Soul Society in reality and Yhwach was the good guy who just wanted to restore things on how they used to be in the past.

Aizen hated the Soul King because as I said, he was retarded and allowed to be humiliated.


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## Ren. (May 6, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> I also want to indicate that the Soul King actually didn't created those Realms.
> 
> Far long ago, those 3 Realms were just a single Realm were both the living and dead coexisted, including the bad souls or the Hollow.
> 
> ...


I have yet to read the novel even If I have a link to it.


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## Akira1993 (May 6, 2020)

Ren. said:


> I have yet to read the novel even If I have a link to it.


If you read those Novels, you will hate the Shinigamis and view Yhwach as the Hero.

Only the Shiba Clan from the 5 Great Nobles family were the most honorable Shinigamis, the rest are trash, including those lapdog of the Gotei 13 and the Royal guard.

Ichibei is also a monster, he existed before everything and he is as old as the Soul King at least, his powers are from himself, not from his Zanpakuto. The Novels will show you how much of a monster he truly is and cannot be bested in a conventional way, impossible.

He literally saved the Soul King from an eternity of suffering.


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## wowfel (May 6, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> Problem is that Yhwach's raw power is trash compared to Ichigo.
> 
> Only reason he easily won is because of his causality manipulation hax via transforming the future on whatever outcomes he want, including his own outcomes.
> 
> ...


Ywach reshaped the entire royal palace using telekinesis far more impressive than anything Ichigo was shown. Ywach also tanked Ichigo's strongest ability at the time the Gran Ray Cero, reiatsu rivaling the soul king doesn't always translate into power and application. Durability and DC are not always equal to one another.


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## Akira1993 (May 6, 2020)

wowfel said:


> Ywach reshaped the entire royal palace using telekinesis far more impressive than anything Ichigo was shown. Ywach also tanked Ichigo's strongest ability at the time the Gran Ray Cero, reiatsu rivaling the soul king doesn't always translate into power and application. Durability and DC are not always equal to one another.


You realize that Ichigo's strongest ability in DC is his Bankai which literally killed and One Shot Yhwach right?

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## ho11ow (May 6, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> You realize that Ichigo's strongest ability in DC is his Bankai which literally killed and One Shot Yhwach right?


Isn't Ichigo oneshot yhwach with shikai?


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## OneSimpleAnime (May 6, 2020)

A) An Ichigo with 1/3rd of his powers who got a beatdown from Yhwach literally liquified the dude with 1 GT while in bankai. Ichigo’s raw power is >>> Yhwach’s

B) Soul King Yhwach can passively maintain the balance of the 3 worlds and has absorbed 3-4+ pieces of the SK who alone can maintain the balance as well.

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## OneSimpleAnime (May 6, 2020)

Dude absorbed Pernida, Mimihagi, SK’s body, Gerard

Any single one of them can maintain the balance of the 3 realms and we see Mimihagi do it directly and Yoruichi states she can make that single piece the new SK if she has time


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## wowfel (May 6, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> You realize that Ichigo's strongest ability in DC is his Bankai which literally killed and One Shot Yhwach right?


All that proves is that his durability is far weaker than his potential DC which was focused on reshaping the world rather than using it to fight against Aizen and the rest, where the almighty was used. It's clearly just PIS and shows he has durability and DC don't match.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (May 6, 2020)

aizen was struck by ywach and did not die.

his durability isn’t under review because that’s what happened on panel


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## Medjaynegus (May 6, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> I also want to indicate that the Soul King actually didn't created those Realms.
> 
> Far long ago, those 3 Realms were just a single Realm were both the living and dead coexisted, including the bad souls or the Hollow.
> 
> ...


He did not sacrifice himself. He let them seal him then afterwards tokinada's ancestor feared his power and convinced everyone to butcher the soul kind while already sealed. He was sealed and latered butchered by noble houses


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## Medjaynegus (May 6, 2020)

wowfel said:


> Ywach reshaped the entire royal palace using telekinesis far more impressive than anything Ichigo was shown. Ywach also tanked Ichigo's strongest ability at the time the Gran Ray Cero, reiatsu rivaling the soul king doesn't always translate into power and application. Durability and DC are not always equal to one another.


Gran ray cero pierced yhwach, don't know what your talking about


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## Medjaynegus (May 6, 2020)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> A) An Ichigo with 1/3rd of his powers who got a beatdown from Yhwach literally liquified the dude with 1 GT while in bankai. Ichigo’s raw power is >>> Yhwach’s
> 
> B) Soul King Yhwach can passively maintain the balance of the 3 worlds and has absorbed 3-4+ pieces of the SK who alone can maintain the balance as well.


Dont forget dangai and to lesser extent royal realm, garganta, and valley of screams.


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## Medjaynegus (May 6, 2020)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Dude absorbed Pernida, Mimihagi, SK’s body, Gerard
> 
> Any single one of them can maintain the balance of the 3 realms and we see Mimihagi do it directly and Yoruichi states she can make that single piece the new SK if she has time


He didnt absorb pernida but everyone else yes along with haschwalth


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## Divell (May 6, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> Planet level from scaling to Yhwach and EOS Ichigo.
> 
> He stomp.


Do we gave a calc or its just, Yhwach can combine three planets statement?


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## wowfel (May 6, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> Gran ray cero pierced yhwach, don't know what your talking about


Read the next chapter he redirects it.


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## Medjaynegus (May 6, 2020)

wowfel said:


> Read the next chapter he redirects it.


It still pierces his body.


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## wowfel (May 6, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> It still pierces his body.


It barley did any damage to him.........
Edit: I take back what I said on his cero being his strongest ability, that was in his shikai. The strongest ability shown in his bankai is his getsuga and sword swings. Bankai also amplifies the stats. It's clear that Ichigo could take Ywach stated that he couldn't make a mistake against Ichigo. However, This doesn't change the fact that his DC and Durability doesn't scale to each other. In the fight he was focused on reshaping the world and keeping them together and using the almighty to fight them.


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## Medjaynegus (May 6, 2020)

wowfel said:


> It barley did any damage to him.........
> Edit: I take back what I said on his cero being his strongest ability, that was in his shikai. The strongest ability shown in his bankai is his getsuga and sword swings. Bankai also amplifies the stats. It's clear that Ichigo could take Ywach stated that he couldn't make a mistake against Ichigo. However, This doesn't change the fact that his DC and Durability doesn't scale to each other. In the fight he was focused on reshaping the world and keeping them together and using the almighty to fight them.


He was already keeping them together they minute he absorbed the soul king. Next he can see multiple futures, multitasking isnt going to prevent him from winning a fight. Fighning and reshaping the world are not difficult things to do with someone with precognition and reikaku. So yes his dc and durability scale to it.


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## BossKitten (May 6, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> He was already keeping them together they minute he absorbed the soul king. Next he can see multiple futures, multitasking isnt going to prevent him from winning a fight.* Fighning and reshaping the world are not difficult things to do with someone with precognition and reikaku*. So yes his dc and durability scale to it.



I'm pretty sure that looking into multiple futures while fighting and reshaping things is difficult compared to simply fighting, lol.


On topic, you guys are making this more complicated than it should be...

Ichigo has more raw power than Bach.

If we say Bach's attacks are planet level, then Ichigo's would be planet level+ in his hollow/bankai forms, so it doesn't mean that Bach's durability is low, its simply that Ichigo's attack power is high.

Bach negates Ichigo's superior raw power with Haxx.

Aizen's haxx allows gave him the ability to hang with Bach for awhile.

Aizen also has the ability to take hits from Bach and swipe away his attacks.

Bach, Ichigo, and Aizen all have the ability to replace the SK.


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## Medjaynegus (May 6, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> I'm pretty sure that looking into multiple futures while fighting and reshaping things is difficult compared to simply fighting, lol.
> 
> 
> On topic, you guys are making this more complicated than it should be...
> ...


Not for yhwach it isnt, he saw multiple futures and continued to alter them. He was seeing and altering the future easily. Aizens hado 99 was able to eat up the goo yhwach was releasing


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## Hardcore (May 6, 2020)

from my knowledge that is limited to the manga not novels

aizen gets a one-way ticket to the moon


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## Medjaynegus (May 6, 2020)

Hardcore said:


> from my knowledge that is limited to the manga not novels
> 
> aizen gets a one-way ticket to the moon


The novels are canon and are apart of the series, so I dont know what your point is.


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## Akira1993 (May 7, 2020)

Divell said:


> Do we gave a calc or its just, Yhwach can combine three planets statement?


That is the lowballing of that statement yeah.


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## Akira1993 (May 7, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> I'm pretty sure that looking into multiple futures while fighting and reshaping things is difficult compared to simply fighting, lol.
> 
> 
> On topic, you guys are making this more complicated than it should be...
> ...


I don't recall Aizen being stated capable of replacing the SK.

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## Akira1993 (May 7, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> He did not sacrifice himself. He let them seal him then afterwards tokinada's ancestor feared his power and convinced everyone to butcher the soul kind while already sealed. He was sealed and latered butchered by noble houses


Well that is why I said that he sacrificed himself for them while gaining nothing in return.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (May 7, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> I don't recall Aizen being stated capable of replacing the SK.



He is also a being with traits from Holow, Quincy and Shinigami, much more powerful than Ywach pre power ups was and has the Hogyoku which was made in order to create an artificial replacement.


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## BossKitten (May 7, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> I don't recall Aizen being stated capable of replacing the SK.



Aizen planned on killing the SK and saw himself fit to become the new god. This is something that he didn't attempt until he ascended beyond that of a shinigami, human, and quincy (even shinigami turn to die if they get too close to him without being strong enough, a trait that we don't see with Ichigo or Bach).

The hogyoku he posses tears down the boundaries between the Shinigami and the Hollow, which means that Aizen would have the power of them both. All-in-all, Aizen is viewed as a legit god in the Bleachverse. He is also clearly more powerful than mimi, which could also replace the SK.


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## Medjaynegus (May 7, 2020)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He is also a being with traits from Holow, Quincy and Shinigami, much more powerful than Ywach pre power ups was and has the Hogyoku which was made in order to create an artificial replacement.


Who had these traits? Aizen had no hollow traits.  He turned domineering between Quincy and shinigami.


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## Akira1993 (May 7, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Aizen planned on killing the SK and saw himself fit to become the new god. This is something that he didn't attempt until he ascended beyond that of a shinigami, human, and quincy (even shinigami turn to die if they get too close to him without being strong enough, a trait that we don't see with Ichigo or Bach).
> 
> The hogyoku he posses tears down the boundaries between the Shinigami and the Hollow, which means that Aizen would have the power of them both. All-in-all, Aizen is viewed as a legit god in the Bleachverse. He is also clearly more powerful than mimi, which could also replace the SK.


But why Ichibei didn't use him as a Soul King replacement since he was already sealed anyway and in that state, it wouldn't be difficult for a monster like Ichibei to literally use him as the new Soul King


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## Akira1993 (May 7, 2020)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He is also a being with traits from Holow, Quincy and Shinigami, much more powerful than Ywach pre power ups was and has the Hogyoku which was made in order to create an artificial replacement.


Quincy? Aizen? You will have to explain further.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (May 7, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> Who had these traits? Aizen had no hollow traits. He turned domineering between Quincy and shinigami.





Akira1993 said:


> Quincy? Aizen? You will have to explain further.



According to Unmasked Fragor is made by taking reishi from the environment like a Quincy does.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Akira1993 (May 7, 2020)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> According to Unmasked Fragor is made by taking reiatsu from the environment like a Quincy does.


That doesn't make him a Quincy tho.

He just has a pseudo limited ability similar to them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (May 7, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> That doesn't make him a Quincy tho.
> 
> He just has a pseudo limited ability similar to them.



Didn't say he was a Quincy, the databook states it's a divine monster that it's neither of the races, but has traits and abilities from them (Zanpakuto, Hollow like regen and appearance, surrounding reishi manipulation)

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## BossKitten (May 7, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> But why Ichibei didn't use him as a Soul King replacement since he was already sealed anyway and in that state, it wouldn't be difficult for a monster like Ichibei to literally use him as the new Soul King



Aizen is currently sealed on his own accord. The only person that is able to beat him into submission is Ichigo (granted that the vast majority of Aizen's power was sealed during the fight with Bach). 

Ichibei also used the corpse of Bach to replace the SK, so there was no need to use Aizen. There are also other candidates that can be used as a replacement like Ginjo and Hikone.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (May 7, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Aizen is currently sealed on his own accord.


why

never saw him as someone who would


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## BossKitten (May 7, 2020)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> why
> 
> never saw him as someone who would



No idea really. The novels say he is back in confinement, but never go over his internal thought process. We know that Ichigo is the only person who rivals him, so its more or less assumed.


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## Akira1993 (May 7, 2020)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Didn't say he was a Quincy, the databook states it's a divine monster that it's neither of the races, but has traits and abilities from them (Zanpakuto, Hollow like regen and appearance, surrounding reishi manipulation)


Can you link me that part from the Databook?


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## Medjaynegus (May 7, 2020)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Didn't say he was a Quincy, the databook states it's a divine monster that it's neither of the races, but has traits and abilities from them (Zanpakuto, Hollow like regen and appearance, surrounding reishi manipulation)


Quincys have shown regeneration and the databook never compared his transformation to hollows. It's TRUE it mentioned the divine part but his form has nothing to do with hollows.


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## Medjaynegus (May 7, 2020)

Ichibei can along with royal guards.


BossKitten said:


> Aizen is currently sealed on his own accord. The only person that is able to beat him into submission is Ichigo (granted that the vast majority of Aizen's power was sealed during the fight with Bach).
> 
> Ichibei also used the corpse of Bach to replace the SK, so there was no need to use Aizen. There are also other candidates that can be used as a replacement like Ginjo and Hikone.


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## accountmaker (May 7, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> It was brought back and apparently he got it in his durability at least as he showed the feat in that department.
> 
> Overall, he is viewed as being comparable to EOS Ichigo.


That's fucked. Restricted, no bankai aizen being as strong as eos bitchigo

Reactions: Like 1


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## Akira1993 (May 7, 2020)

accountmaker said:


> That's fucked. Restricted, no bankai aizen being as strong as eos bitchigo


Wasn't Ichigo restricted as well?

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## BossKitten (May 7, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> Wasn't Ichigo restricted as well?



Yes; however, Ichigo had moments where he wasn't being restricted, so he received praise and hype for his overall power. 

Aizen Had something like 18 or 20 seals in place (my numbers are most likely off), so his performance was based on a fraction of his overall power. Also, Aizen's seals were designed to keep his energy close to his body at all times, so whenever he tried to exert power, the seals would act as a counter force, reducing his overall attack power and abilities.


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## Akira1993 (May 7, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Yes; however, Ichigo had moments where he wasn't being restricted, so he received praise and hype for his overall power.
> 
> Aizen Had something like 18 or 20 seals in place (my numbers are most likely off), so his performance was based on a fraction of his overall power. Also, Aizen's seals were designed to keep his energy close to his body at all times, so whenever he tried to exert power, the seals would act as a counter force, reducing his overall attack power and abilities.


It wouldn't change anything against Yhwach anyway.

And who made those seals? Urahara? It seems that his gadgets are far stronger than Aizen's power after all.


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## BossKitten (May 7, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> It wouldn't change anything against Yhwach anyway.
> 
> And who made those seals? Urahara? It seems that his gadgets are far stronger than Aizen's power after all.



Not true at all. 

Everything Aizen does from KS to kido requires energy output. If that output is being restricted, everything he does will be at a fraction of its true power. If you re-read the last part of the fight, it was Aizen that put in 90% of the work against Bach while the others basically waited for an opening. In that time, he was able to trick Bach, land an attack, and we already know that KS can mess-up Bach's perception of time. Aizen at 100% would be a problem for anybody because he has raw power and haxx, which is part of the reason he was handicapped from the start. Even with the threat at hand Shunsui was only permitted to unlock 2-3 seals because of how dangerous Aizen is....and that's which the Royal Palace being under the threat of Bach.

I can't recall who made the seals. It was likely Urahara or Mayuri.


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## Akira1993 (May 7, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Not true at all.
> 
> Everything Aizen does from KS to kido requires energy output. If that output is being restricted, everything he does will be at a fraction of its true power. If you re-read the last part of the fight, it was Aizen that put in 90% of the work against Bach while the others basically waited for an opening. In that time, he was able to trick Bach, land an attack, and we already know that KS can mess-up Bach's perception of time. Aizen at 100% would be a problem for anybody because he has raw power and haxx, which is part of the reason he was handicapped from the start. Even with the threat at hand Shunsui was only permitted to unlock 2-3 seals because of how dangerous Aizen is....and that's which the Royal Palace being under the threat of Bach.
> 
> I can't recall who made the seals. It was likely Urahara or Mayuri.


Besides slightly messing with his perception, what else he did to Yhwach?

50% is actually The Quincy Arrow and 50% was Ichigo killing him in that window of opportunity, Aizen get literally absorbed casually.


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## BossKitten (May 7, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> Besides slightly messing with his perception, what else he did to Yhwach?
> 
> 50% is actually The Quincy Arrow and 50% was Ichigo killing him in that window of opportunity, Aizen get literally absorbed casually.



The arrow and Ichigo wouldn't have had a chance to do anything if Aizen wasn't going one on one with Bach.


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## Akira1993 (May 7, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> The arrow and Ichigo wouldn't have had a chance to do anything if Aizen wasn't going one on one with Bach.


What are you even talking about? Aizen was gone and completely absorbed.

Yhwach was about to destroy the 3 Realms, what he did was useless, only thing that TRULY stopped him was that arrow.


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## BossKitten (May 7, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> What are you even talking about? Aizen was gone and completely absorbed.
> 
> Yhwach was about to destroy the 3 Realms, what he did was useless, only thing that TRULY stopped him was that arrow.



Aizen was going one one one with Bach which provided Ichigo with an opening.

Ichigo landed his attach on Bach, killing him.

Bach came back, immediately taking out Aizen from behind.

Bach turns his attention on Ichigo before the arrow pierces him, which leads to him loosing his power and Ichigo killing him.


----

When Bach revived himself, he didn't credit Ichigo for the attack, instead he noted that Aizen deactivated KS, and wondered if it was due to a lack of power (something that wouldn't be an issue without the seals). This moment of going mad is when he also got hit with the arrow. 

Only Aizen's role is irreplaceable here. 

Someone else could have shot the arrow.

Someone else could have killed a powerless Bach.


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## Akira1993 (May 7, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Aizen was going one one one with Bach which provided Ichigo with an opening.
> 
> Ichigo landed his attach on Bach, killing him.
> 
> ...


Are you serious? He mocked KS for his effect being out already.

And turned to Ichigo, Aizen was completely ignored.


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## accountmaker (May 7, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> Ichibei can along with royal guards.


Speaking ot Ichibei, how did Shinigami fight before the invention of zanpakto?


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## Divell (May 7, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Not true at all.
> 
> Everything Aizen does from KS to kido requires energy output. If that output is being restricted, everything he does will be at a fraction of its true power. If you re-read the last part of the fight, it was Aizen that put in 90% of the work against Bach while the others basically waited for an opening. In that time, he was able to trick Bach, land an attack, and we already know that KS can mess-up Bach's perception of time. Aizen at 100% would be a problem for anybody because he has raw power and haxx, which is part of the reason he was handicapped from the start. Even with the threat at hand Shunsui was only permitted to unlock 2-3 seals because of how dangerous Aizen is....and that's which the Royal Palace being under the threat of Bach.
> 
> I can't recall who made the seals. It was likely Urahara or Mayuri.


Again with this shit? Aizen’s seals doesn’t lower his power, just restricts the range of his Reiatsu.


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## Divell (May 7, 2020)

accountmaker said:


> Speaking ot Ichibei, how did Shinigami fight before the invention of zanpakto?


With sticks. Big sticks.


Also Kidou, Hakuda, Hoho, and their Reiatsu. 

Is not like Zanpakutou are their only way of fighting.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BossKitten (May 7, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> Are you serious? He mocked KS for his effect being out already.
> 
> And turned to Ichigo, Aizen was completely ignored.



Que? 

Bach literally attacked Aizen before he attacked Ichigo, so how was he ignored?

Bach said, "You've undone KS effects, was it overconfidence, or a lack of power?" How is that mocking KS?

He then goes on to say, "Hey Ichigo, Did you think you could kill me with something like that?"

Bach literally attacked and addressed Aizen before acknowledging Ichigo again.



Divell said:


> Again with this shit? Aizen’s seals doesn’t lower his power, just restricts the range of his Reiatsu.



If you tried to throw a punch with someone holding your arm back, does that effect how hard you hit?


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## Divell (May 7, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Que?
> 
> Bach literally attacked Aizen before he attacked Ichigo, so how was he ignored?
> 
> ...


Sure, it would at least slow me down. But Aizen was quite literally only being limited on his range, not the amount. 

Is more comparable to limiting the space in where you can punch. And keep in mind most of it was the chair.

Is not like Ichigo’s batch or Kenpachi’s eyepatch.


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## BossKitten (May 7, 2020)

Divell said:


> Sure, it would at least slow me down. But Aizen was quite literally only being limited on his range, not the amount.
> 
> Is more comparable to limiting the space in where you can punch. And keep in mind most of it was the chair.
> 
> Is not like Ichigo’s batch or Kenpachi’s eyepatch.



No, its exactly like the example I gave.

The seals are constantly meant to keep his power restricted to his body, so if he uses an attack that exerts energy outward, the seals will pull that energy back, which means he'd need to put more energy into the attack to propel it forward. This means that every attack that requires reitsu will require far more than normal to properly use.

We see just how effective the seals are when Shunsui unlocked 1 seal and so much power was released that he though Aizen was completely freed.


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## Akira1993 (May 7, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Que?
> 
> Bach literally attacked Aizen before he attacked Ichigo, so how was he ignored?
> 
> ...


He is mocking it via stating that the effect run out while he was literally single handedly absorbed.


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## BossKitten (May 7, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> He is mocking it via stating that the effect run out while he was literally single handedly absorbed.



Lol, its clearly an observation. He is wondering if Aizen was overconfident or if he ran out of power. Nothing about that is a mockery. 

Asking Ichigo if he really though he could kill him with such an attack sounds much more like a mockery.


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## Medjaynegus (May 8, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Yes; however, Ichigo had moments where he wasn't being restricted, so he received praise and hype for his overall power.
> 
> Aizen Had something like 18 or 20 seals in place (my numbers are most likely off), so his performance was based on a fraction of his overall power. Also, Aizen's seals were designed to keep his energy close to his body at all times, so whenever he tried to exert power, the seals would act as a counter force, reducing his overall attack power and abilities.


They seals kept his Reiatsu near him. The device mayuri used would reduce the power but without the device it just kept it near his body, so once that chair was removed he fought noramlly.


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## Medjaynegus (May 8, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> No, its exactly like the example I gave.
> 
> The seals are constantly meant to keep his power restricted to his body, so if he uses an attack that exerts energy outward, the seals will pull that energy back, which means he'd need to put more energy into the attack to propel it forward. This means that every attack that requires reitsu will require far more than normal to properly use.
> 
> We see just how effective the seals are when Shunsui unlocked 1 seal and so much power was released that he though Aizen was completely freed.


Shunsui was shocked that he was freed from the post he was strapped too.


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## Medjaynegus (May 8, 2020)

accountmaker said:


> Speaking ot Ichibei, how did Shinigami fight before the invention of zanpakto?


I assume kido, hobo, and hakuda. Yamamoto had trouble with some powerful hollow before getting his zanpakuto.


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## accountmaker (May 8, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> I assume kido, hobo, and hakuda. Yamamoto had trouble with some powerful hollow before getting his zanpakuto.


With the way zanpakto were introduced, I always assumed they were an "extension" of the shinigami, not a literal power up. Like the swords were just mediums through which they could more easily channel their latent powers.

Like Kido would be materia spells, and zanpakto techs would be "abilities". We know characters don't "need" a zanpakto to use their innate powers (i.e see Hitsugaya making it snow. But him and bitchigo seem like exceptions)


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## accountmaker (May 8, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> No idea really. The novels say he is back in confinement, but never go over his internal thought process. We know that Ichigo is the only person who rivals him, so its more or less assumed.


Who's the hot body thotty in your avatar?


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## Juan (May 8, 2020)

isn't yhwach like continental anyway? 

aizen gets scaled to yamamoto who is also continental plus he's immortal so he beats boros anyway

not that he doesn't scale to yhwach anyway

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## wowfel (May 8, 2020)

Well if you guys are arguing that Aizen scales to Ywach well then I guess that Dangai is also planet level+ sine he was stronger than Aizen at the time. Also Ywach DC isn't lower than anyone he was literally blowing holes through Aizen who wouldn't have survived without regen.


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## Medjaynegus (May 8, 2020)

wowfel said:


> Well if you guys are arguing that Aizen scales to Ywach well then I guess that Dangai is also planet level+ sine he was stronger than Aizen at the time. Also Ywach DC isn't lower than anyone he was literally blowing holes through Aizen who wouldn't have survived without regen.


What are you talking about he tanked yhwach first blast with no injuries. Next muken aizen is stronger than dangai ichigo and monster aizen. He then tanked another attack from yhwach before changing himself into ichigo. Shikai ichigo was dangai level, than hollow shikai was superior along with bankai and hollow bankai being massively superior to dangai ichigo. Dangai ichigo isnt impressive.


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## Camoball (May 8, 2020)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Dude absorbed Pernida, Mimihagi, SK’s body, Gerard
> 
> Any single one of them can maintain the balance of the 3 realms and we see Mimihagi do it directly and Yoruichi states she can make that single piece the new SK if she has time




Is everyone who can hold the realms together considered planet level?


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## wowfel (May 8, 2020)

This is from the wiki regarding how powerful dangai Ichigo was which is a severely overlooked detail
"According to Sōsuke Aizen, it is understood that Humans are two-dimensional beings whereas Shinigami and Hollows are considered three-dimensional beings.[1] When evolving to a state of existence beyond the latter, it is therefore suggested that Aizen became a fourth-dimensional being, while Ichigo Kurosaki, who was acclaimed as having reached even higher, may have been a fifth-dimensional being or perhaps even higher."
This is important because when Aizen transformed no one was able to feel his reiatsu but thats because they couldn't comprehend his state of existence. However, when Aizen couldn't sense Ichigos reiatsu he thought it was the result of a failed evolution but in fact he was a higher state of existence because he couldn't sense his reiatsu.The attacked he tanked from Ywach was meant to kill ichigo but Aizen has superior regeneration which is why he could tank the attacks.


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## accountmaker (May 8, 2020)

wowfel said:


> This is from the wiki regarding how powerful dangai Ichigo was which is a severely overlooked detail
> "According to Sōsuke Aizen, it is understood that Humans are two-dimensional beings whereas Shinigami and Hollows are considered three-dimensional beings.[1] When evolving to a state of existence beyond the latter, it is therefore suggested that Aizen became a fourth-dimensional being, while Ichigo Kurosaki, who was acclaimed as having reached even higher, may have been a fifth-dimensional being or perhaps even higher."
> This is important because when Aizen transformed no one was able to feel his reiatsu but thats because they couldn't comprehend his state of existence. However, when Aizen couldn't sense Ichigos reiatsu he thought it was the result of a failed evolution but in fact he was a higher state of existence because he couldn't sense his reiatsu.The attacked he tanked from Ywach was meant to kill ichigo but Aizen has superior regeneration which is why he could tank the attacks.


So Dangai Ichigo is the strongest incarnation of the character?


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## Divell (May 8, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> No, its exactly like the example I gave.
> 
> The seals are constantly meant to keep his power restricted to his body, so if he uses an attack that exerts energy outward, the seals will pull that energy back, which means he'd need to put more energy into the attack to propel it forward. This means that every attack that requires reitsu will require far more than normal to properly use.
> 
> We see just how effective the seals are when Shunsui unlocked 1 seal and so much power was released that he though Aizen was completely freed.


Aizen’s mouth, and ears had been already resealed prior from that as we see from Yhwach’s visit.

Hadou 99 doesn’t require Reiatsu, it literally absorb Reishi from around him, and he still had KS and physical attacks. At best he was limited in his arsenal. His power is not being held back, his Reiatsu was being kept near him, and as soo as Yhwach breaks him from the chair, we see Aizen having no problem once against use his Reiatsu.


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## OneSimpleAnime (May 8, 2020)

Camoball said:


> Is everyone who can hold the realms together considered planet level?


its 3 realms that will literally crumble and reform together over some kind of vast dimensional distance, so yes it would be some form of planet level

Reactions: Like 1


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## Akira1993 (May 8, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Lol, its clearly an observation. He is wondering if Aizen was overconfident or if he ran out of power. Nothing about that is a mockery.
> 
> Asking Ichigo if he really though he could kill him with such an attack sounds much more like a mockery.


That is your Interpretation, he clearly mocked him lol.


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## Medjaynegus (May 8, 2020)

wowfel said:


> This is from the wiki regarding how powerful dangai Ichigo was which is a severely overlooked detail
> "According to Sōsuke Aizen, it is understood that Humans are two-dimensional beings whereas Shinigami and Hollows are considered three-dimensional beings.[1] When evolving to a state of existence beyond the latter, it is therefore suggested that Aizen became a fourth-dimensional being, while Ichigo Kurosaki, who was acclaimed as having reached even higher, may have been a fifth-dimensional being or perhaps even higher."
> This is important because when Aizen transformed no one was able to feel his reiatsu but thats because they couldn't comprehend his state of existence. However, when Aizen couldn't sense Ichigos reiatsu he thought it was the result of a failed evolution but in fact he was a higher state of existence because he couldn't sense his reiatsu.The attacked he tanked from Ywach was meant to kill ichigo but Aizen has superior regeneration which is why he could tank the attacks.


Why are u using the wiki rather than manga. Aizen tanked.his own hado 90 with out a scratch and so did the chair. Next he tanked yhwachs goo attack but the chair couldn't so no it has nothing to do with regenerate cause he wasnt injured. Please stop bullshitting excuses without using actual evidence from the manga. Regenration comes in when injured he was not injured. I gave you scans showing aizen tanking his hits without injuries.


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## Medjaynegus (May 8, 2020)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> its 3 realms that will literally crumble and reform together over some kind of vast dimensional distance, so yes it would be some form of planet level


The dangai also counts


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## Medjaynegus (May 8, 2020)

accountmaker said:


> So Dangai Ichigo is the strongest incarnation of the character?


No true shikai is above or equal to dangai.


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## accountmaker (May 8, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> No true shikai is above or equal to dangai.


Based on what? Dangai Ichigo was hilariously above aizen in strength. And then there's the final getsuga tensho. Hell, Ichigo could have buffed up even more using his Hollow Powers.


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## OneSimpleAnime (May 8, 2020)

accountmaker said:


> Based on what? Dangai Ichigo was hilariously above aizen in strength. And then there's the final getsuga tensho. Hell, Ichigo could have buffed up even more using his Hollow Powers.


Ichigo didnt have access to his Quincy powers and true Shinigami powers till the final arc

Reactions: Like 1


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## Medjaynegus (May 8, 2020)

accountmaker said:


> Based on what? Dangai Ichigo was hilariously above aizen in strength. And then there's the final getsuga tensho. Hell, Ichigo could have buffed up even more using his Hollow Powers.


What, ichigo got control over his Reiatsu thanks to royal guard and yhwach outright states that his own par with the power he fought aizen with. Fullbring shikai and bankai were already on par or superior to fkt ichigo. Muken aizen is stronger than fgt ichigo and dangai ichigo. Ichigos hollow and shinigami powers are one in the same.


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## BossKitten (May 8, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> They seals kept his Reiatsu near him. The device mayuri used would reduce the power but without the device it just kept it near his body, so once that chair was removed he fought noramlly.









Mayuri flat out says that the restraints were always meant to keep Aizen's powers in check. Simply keeping his reitsu close to him is a function that Aizen noticed; however, they clearly act as a limiter (i.e. preventing him from shooting down the palace).


Also...





Nothing is ever stated that Mayuri's power check device is no longer active. The only thing we see is that Aizen is freed from the chair and is now able to move freely.

Do you have any scan that says otherwise?



Medjaynegus said:


> Shunsui was shocked that he was freed from the post he was strapped too.



No. Nothing about getting freed from a post was stated. Shunsui felt Aizen's power and assumed that Aizen removed the other seals on his own.




accountmaker said:


> Who's the hot body thotty in your avatar?



Loren Gray, lol



Divell said:


> Aizen’s mouth, and ears had been already resealed prior from that as we see from Yhwach’s visit.
> 
> Hadou 99 doesn’t require Reiatsu, it literally absorb Reishi from around him, and he still had KS and physical attacks. At best he was limited in his arsenal. His power is not being held back, his Reiatsu was being kept near him, and as soo as Yhwach breaks him from the chair, we see Aizen having no problem once against use his Reiatsu.



No. You can see from the scans I posted above that Aizen never had the seals reapplied.

What makes you think Hadou 99 doesn't require reiatsu? Do you have a scan for that?

KS requires reiatsu. We know for a fact that its abilities are limited and enhanced based on how powerful the user is from the novels.

Having your arsenal limited is clearly a limitation as well. Imagine if Ichigo "wasn't limted", but he just couldn't use Getsu.

Aizen could use reiatsu regardless of if he was in the chair or not. Mayuri's seals applied the power check, not the chair. The char just made it so that he couldn't move freely and couldn't be destroyed





Akira1993 said:


> That is your Interpretation, he clearly mocked him lol.






Take that however you will.



Edit:
First group of scans don't seem to be working and it took too long to find all the scans. I'll repost them later.


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## Divell (May 8, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Mayuri flat out says that the restraints were always meant to keep Aizen's powers in check. Simply keeping his reitsu close to him is a function that Aizen noticed; however, they clearly act as a limiter (i.e. preventing him from shooting down the palace).
> 
> 
> Also...
> ...


Nobody can see your scan. In the last novel is explained it absorbs the Reishi in the atmosphere, and no one talks about limiting his movements


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## Akira1993 (May 8, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Mayuri flat out says that the restraints were always meant to keep Aizen's powers in check. Simply keeping his reitsu close to him is a function that Aizen noticed; however, they clearly act as a limiter (i.e. preventing him from shooting down the palace).
> 
> 
> Also...
> ...


Sure, I rest my case.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (May 8, 2020)

it’s actually kinda alright that aizen is classified as a divine creature in belch 

maybe that’s something kubo can explore a bit more


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## Akira1993 (May 8, 2020)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> it’s actually kinda alright that aizen is classified as a divine creature in belch
> 
> maybe that’s something kubo can explore a bit more


So Aizen isn't a Shinigami now?


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## Dreams of Tommorow (May 8, 2020)

Divell said:


> Nobody can see your scan. In the last novel is explained it absorbs the Reishi in the atmosphere, and no one talks about limiting his movements


irregardless, mayuri can control how much he can exert at a given time

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dreams of Tommorow (May 8, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> So Aizen isn't a Shinigami now?


apparently no longer and is better categorized as a “unclassified divine creature”

Reactions: Like 1


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## Akira1993 (May 8, 2020)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> apparently no longer and is better categorized as a “unclassified divine creature”


Cool, as expected from Aizen, he isn't a lowly Shinigami.


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## Medjaynegus (May 8, 2020)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> irregardless, mayuri can control how much he can exert at a given time


This is what I was saying, the chair and restraints can be altered with that device. When yhwach blew up the chair aizen was at full power because the device was not at max setting. The restraints just compress his Reiatsu it doesnt erase it.


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## Akira1993 (May 8, 2020)

I wanted Aizen to put Mayuri in his place.


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## BossKitten (May 8, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> This is what I was saying, the chair and restraints can be altered with that device. When yhwach blew up the chair aizen was at full power because the device was not at max setting. The restraints just compress his Reiatsu it doesnt erase it.



No. The chair had nothing to do with what Mayuri was talking about. Shunsui was talking about how it seemed as if the seals were just meant to keep Aizen's power close to his own body; however, it was hard to deal with someone with Aizen's level of power. Then Mayuri came in and mentioned how they actually keep Aizen's power in check.


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## Akira1993 (May 8, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> No. The chair had nothing to do with what Mayuri was talking about. Shunsui was talking about how it seemed as if the seals were just meant to keep Aizen's power close to his own body; however, it was hard to deal with someone with Aizen's level of power. Then Mayuri came in and mentioned how they actually keep Aizen's power in check.


Where are those seals? He couldn't leave the chair on his own.


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## BossKitten (May 8, 2020)

After releasing one seal, Aizen released so much power that Shunsui thought that Aizen freed himself:




Here we see Shunsui and Mayuri are talking about the seals/restraints that Aizen thought was only keeping his power close to his body:




Now Mayuri explains that they are actually meant to keep Aizen's power in check:




Nothing about the conversation refers to the chair.

We know for a fact that Mayuri limited Aizen's power once he attempted to shoot down the palace.

It is never said or shown that Aizen's seals or power restraints are removed at any point in the manga.


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## Akira1993 (May 8, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> After releasing one seal, Aizen released so much power that Shunsui thought that Aizen freed himself:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So where are those seals? Those black things convering his body are the seals?


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## BossKitten (May 8, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> So where are those seals? *Those black things convering his body are the seals?*



Yes. 

His left eye and mouth were two of the seals he  was released from, which is why they're uncovered.


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## Akira1993 (May 8, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Yes.
> 
> His left eye and mouth were two of the seals he  was released from, which is why they're uncovered.


So the challenge of Mayuri toward him was to break those seals?

Look like Mayuri was right after all.


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## BossKitten (May 8, 2020)

This is Aizen fully sealed, which confirms that the straps around his body are seals.



This is further backed by Shunsui saying that the seals were removed from Aizen's mouth, left eye, and ankles:



The rest of his body is covered in seals that keeps his power close to his body + keeps his power in check based on Mayuri's whim.


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## BossKitten (May 8, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> *So the challenge of Mayuri toward him was to break those seals?*
> 
> Look like Mayuri was right after all.



Yes, but Nanana attacked Aizen before he could properly challenge the seals limiters 


Nanana even mentions that Aizen's reiatsu has a bunch of holes in it due to the "suit":

Reactions: Like 1


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## Divell (May 8, 2020)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> irregardless, mayuri can control how much he can exert at a given time


Sure, but it doesn’t translate to his physical power. And regardless, as soon as he left the chair, he claimed he was finally free to use his power and stop Yhwach.


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## BossKitten (May 8, 2020)

Divell said:


> Sure, but it doesn’t translate to his physical power. And regardless, as soon as he left the chair, he claimed he was finally free to use his power and stop Yhwach.



No. 

Aizen claimed that he now had the means to stop Yhwach, that isn't the same as saying he was free to use his full power. 

The manga took a good chunk of a chapter to show that Aizen's offensive power is being greatly restricted, and nothing ever says that those changes are reversed. Aizen is simply more confident when he isn't being restrained to a chair.


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## Masterblack06 (May 8, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Yes, but Nanana attacked Aizen before he could properly challenge the seals limiters
> 
> 
> Nanana even mentions that Aizen's reiatsu has a bunch of holes in it due to the "suit":


I like how Aizens just like "yeah whatever dog"


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## Divell (May 8, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> No.
> 
> Aizen claimed that he now had the means to stop Yhwach, that isn't the same as saying he was free to use his full power.
> 
> The manga took a good chunk of a chapter to show that Aizen's offensive power is being greatly restricted, and nothing ever says that those changes are reversed. Aizen is simply more confident when he isn't being restrained to a chair.


What do you mean his offensive power was restricted? His best shit is Hasou 99, and he could use it just fine. Same as Kurohitsugi, who without incantation was stronger than in his fight with Ichigo.

Kubo took time to show off Aizen flexing his Reiatsu and Yhwach preparing for combat.

You will need to provide examples on your whole “Aizen’s attack being restricted” bit.


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## Claudio Swiss (May 8, 2020)

Wtf y’all negs are arguing about?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Dreams of Tommorow (May 8, 2020)

Divell said:


> What do you mean his offensive power was restricted? His best shit is Hasou 99, and he could use it just fine. Same as Kurohitsugi, who without incantation was stronger than in his fight with Ichigo.
> 
> Kubo took time to show off Aizen flexing his Reiatsu and Yhwach preparing for combat.
> 
> You will need to provide examples on your whole “Aizen’s attack being restricted” bit.


you don’t think your stance is a reach?

yes it was never specified but do you think kubo intended for a guy walking around with visible restraints on his entire person to be at full power?

If so, why not just have the restraints removed entirely to not confuse the audience?

that doesn’t make any sense to me


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## Divell (May 8, 2020)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> you don’t think your stance is a reach?
> 
> yes it was never specified but do you think kubo intended for a guy walking around with visible restraints on his entire person to be at full power?
> 
> ...


We don’t assume things, you need to prove your point and give evidence.

Aizen’s movement was merely restricted by the chair and his “cross” in Muken.

All of his clothes are specified to only restrict his Reiatsu near him, by him, Mayuri and Shunsui. That is it. We don’t have evidence or statements or any implication that his physical body or his movements were being held back in anyway.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (May 9, 2020)

Divell said:


> We don’t assume things, you need to prove your point and give evidence


There is no we, I’m asking you


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## BossKitten (May 9, 2020)

Divell said:


> What do you mean his offensive power was restricted? His best shit is Hasou 99, and he could use it just fine. Same as Kurohitsugi, who without incantation was stronger than in his fight with Ichigo.
> 
> Kubo took time to show off Aizen flexing his Reiatsu and Yhwach preparing for combat.
> 
> You will need to provide examples on your whole “Aizen’s attack being restricted” bit.



Divell.... We see that his offensive power was restricted once he tried to shoot down the palace. Its literally right there as evidence.

Aizen ASSUMED that the seals were just meant to keep his power close to him, then Mayuri goes on to clarify that it lets him keep Aizen's power in check, its literally in the scans that I posted in the last page. 

Regardless of how you say Hadou 99 works, we know for a fact that all kido is more or less effective based on who's using it, so the idea that the user's power doesn't play a role is nonsense, or else more people would use it.

Aizen flexed more in the chair than he did the moment he stood up for the first time, so your stance that is based on a single panel with no support is pointless.

I've already provided evidence, you're just pretending not to see or understand what is right in-front of you.


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## Medjaynegus (May 9, 2020)

What


BossKitten said:


> After releasing one seal, Aizen released so much power that Shunsui thought that Aizen freed himself:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 In the light novel its revealed someone removed those seals prior to shunsui.


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## Medjaynegus (May 9, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> After releasing one seal, Aizen released so much power that Shunsui thought that Aizen freed himself:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mayuri says it doesnt cancel but keep it in check. When aizen fights yhwach he thanks he from removing him from the chair and now nothing is holding him back.


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## BossKitten (May 9, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> What
> 
> In the light novel its revealed someone removed those seals prior to shunsui.


Link it.



Medjaynegus said:


> Mayuri says it doesnt cancel but keep it in check. When aizen fights yhwach he thanks he from removing him from the chair and now nothing is holding him back.



Once again, the chair has nothing to do with the restraints Mayuri was talking about. Aizen said that he now "had the means to defeat" Bach





There isn't a single thing there about him being at full power now. Also, its no different than how he wanted Shunsui to free him when the SK pieces were attacking


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## wowfel (May 9, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> Why are u using the wiki rather than manga. Aizen tanked.his own hado 90 with out a scratch and so did the chair. Next he tanked yhwachs goo attack but the chair couldn't so no it has nothing to do with regenerate cause he wasnt injured. Please stop bullshitting excuses without using actual evidence from the manga. Regenration comes in when injured he was not injured. I gave you scans showing aizen tanking his hits without injuries.


It isn't a stretch to stay Aizen became stronger but during the fake karakura town arc, after Aizen transforms against Ichigo's dad, Urahara, and Yourichi they couldn't sense his reiatsu because he was on a higher plane of existence. When Ichigo fought Aizen he mocked him thinking that he sacrificed all his spiritual pressure for increased strength and speed. However, this was not the case because he realized the same way those below him can't feel his reiatsu he can't feel Ichigo's reiatsu. This means Dangai was at a much higher level than Monster Aizen.
Scans ^ to prove this


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## Medjaynegus (May 9, 2020)

wowfel said:


> It isn't a stretch to stay Aizen became stronger but during the fake karakura town arc, after Aizen transforms against Ichigo's dad, Urahara, and Yourichi they couldn't sense his reiatsu because he was on a higher plane of existence. When Ichigo fought Aizen he mocked him thinking that he sacrificed all his spiritual pressure for increased strength and speed. However, this was not the case because he realized the same way those below him can't feel his reiatsu he can't feel Ichigo's reiatsu. This means Dangai was at a much higher level than Monster Aizen.
> Scans ^ to prove this


I'm aware of this but shikai ichigo is comparable to dangai ichigo. Aizen is superior to monster aizen and aizen tanked a stronger hado 90 along with attacks from yhwach twice and needed improved seals from urahara to be locked back in muken.


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## Medjaynegus (May 9, 2020)

IQUaizen says he now has the means to fight him isnt that letting use know he is more than pwoerful to fight yhwach? Why would he remark thank you for destroying the chari. That same chair was made from the material in muken used to keep him. I'll look for the statement on releasing him in the light novel on bleach reddit.


BossKitten said:


> Link it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## BossKitten (May 9, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> IQUaizen says he now has the means to fight him isnt that letting use know he is more than pwoerful to fight yhwach? Why would he remark thank you for destroying the chari. That same chair was made from the material in muken used to keep him. I'll look for the statement on releasing him in the light novel on bleach reddit.



If you had to fight someone, would you rather do it while you can freely move around or while strapped down to a chair?


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## wowfel (May 9, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> IQUaizen says he now has the means to fight him isnt that letting use know he is more than pwoerful to fight yhwach? Why would he remark thank you for destroying the chari. That same chair was made from the material in muken used to keep him. I'll look for the statement on releasing him in the light novel on bleach reddit.


All Aizen is saying is that he has the means to fight him meaning Kyoka Suigetsu in reality no one can actually match up to Bach's power one on one. Furthermore, what I'm arguing is that Dangai Ichigo is stronger since Aizen could not feel his reiatsu at all meaning he was on another level of power. Regarding Aizen's durability in the battle it's clear Ywach is toying with his opponents just as he was toying with Shikai Ichigo using traps. When he attempted to kill Ichigo by blowing a hole in his body it was actually Aizen in Ichigos disguise. Ichigo would not have survived a huge hole in his chest because he doesn't have the regenerative capabilities that Aizen has. Unless you want to argue that he can control his hollow regeneration and heal himself as seen in the Ulqiorra fight, but that was never shown in his current form.


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## wowfel (May 9, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> I'm aware of this but shikai ichigo is comparable to dangai ichigo. Aizen is superior to monster aizen and aizen tanked a stronger hado 90 along with attacks from yhwach twice and needed improved seals from urahara to be locked back in muken.


Monster Aizen tanked Mugetsu which would have killed him if it were not for the Hogyoku which has the most broken regen capabilities in bleach. Not sure where Aizen tanks a Hado 90 but that's honestly irrelevant cause you can't beat someone who's immortal unless you have some hax to combat that which no on in bleach did.


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## Medjaynegus (May 9, 2020)

wowfel said:


> All Aizen is saying is that he has the means to fight him meaning Kyoka Suigetsu in reality no one can actually match up to Bach's power one on one. Furthermore, what I'm arguing is that Dangai Ichigo is stronger since Aizen could not feel his reiatsu at all meaning he was on another level of power. Regarding Aizen's durability in the battle it's clear Ywach is toying with his opponents just as he was toying with Shikai Ichigo using traps. When he attempted to kill Ichigo by blowing a hole in his body it was actually Aizen in Ichigos disguise. Ichigo would not have survived a huge hole in his chest because he doesn't have the regenerative capabilities that Aizen has. Unless you want to argue that he can control his hollow regeneration and heal himself as seen in the Ulqiorra fight, but that was never shown in his current form.


What those two blast wasnt him toying with aizen and he wasnt referring to ks but his power. He used hado 99 to get rid of that black goo. Aizen tanked two attacks unharmed and then yhwach harmed him further. Aizen does not have hollow regeneration, aizen did not become a hollow. Other characters who are not hollow can regenerate (lille, gerard, pernida, etc.) The same block goo was giving trouble to ichigo who need orihime help and even then the black goo blast he used exceeded the one used on ichigo.


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## Medjaynegus (May 9, 2020)

wowfel said:


> Monster Aizen tanked Mugetsu which would have killed him if it were not for the Hogyoku which has the most broken regen capabilities in bleach. Not sure where Aizen tanks a Hado 90 but that's honestly irrelevant cause you can't beat someone who's immortal unless you have some hax to combat that which no on in bleach did.


Yhwach can absorb immortals and he tanked his own hado 90 here you  go.


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## wowfel (May 9, 2020)

Aizen does have high speed regen with the hogyoku he litteraly survived a Mugetsu. The attacks he previously used on Aizen wasn’t as strong as it barley did enough damage to Aizen twice. Only the last attack periced through Aizen, which was enough to kill anyone other than him due to regen.


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## wowfel (May 9, 2020)

I’ve shown you evidence that dangai>eos Ichigo.


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## Medjaynegus (May 9, 2020)

wowfel said:


> I’ve shown you evidence that dangai>eos Ichigo.


Lol no eos ichigo  is superior and you havent here's evidence for dangai only being on par with shikai ichigo. So true shikai is superior to dangai, this isnt difficult.


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## Medjaynegus (May 9, 2020)

wowfel said:


> Aizen does have high speed regen with the hogyoku he litteraly survived a Mugetsu. The attacks he previously used on Aizen wasn’t as strong as it barley did enough damage to Aizen twice. Only the last attack periced through Aizen, which was enough to kill anyone other than him due to regen.


Where did I deny this, I clear state high speed regeneration has nothing to do with hollows. Lille, gerard, askin, pernida, mask, yhwach,  and other quincys demonstrated such abilities. Aizen tanked two attacks from yhwach and survived the last one, so yes aizen scales to yhwachs attack potency.


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## wowfel (May 9, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> Where did I deny this, I clear state high speed regeneration has nothing to do with hollows. Lille, gerard, askin, pernida, mask, yhwach,  and other quincys demonstrated such abilities. Aizen tanked two attacks from yhwach and survived the last one, so yes aizen scales to yhwachs attack potency.


By that logic Orihime's barriers are planet level in terms of the damage it can tank as it blocked multiple attacks from Bach. Furthermore, when Zangetsu was saying he only was able to use a fraction of his full strength he is referring to base and bankai Ichigo not Dangai or Mugetsu. Monster Aizen is leagues above most characters in bleach as even the strongest captains such as Ishin and Urahara couldn't sense his power in his Chrysalis form. Monster Aizen couldn't sense/feel his Reiatsu furthermore it's Urahara saying he might be stronger is entirely based on the power of his Kido. Either way his statement is unreliable because he couldn't even feel Aizens reiatsu during Karakura town when it was in Chryslis form.


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## Divell (May 9, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Divell.... We see that his offensive power was restricted once he tried to shoot down the palace. Its literally right there as evidence.
> 
> Aizen ASSUMED that the seals were just meant to keep his power close to him, then Mayuri goes on to clarify that it lets him keep Aizen's power in check, its literally in the scans that I posted in the last page.
> 
> ...


We also see when he stands from his fucking chair, all previous restrictions from his Reiatsu, completely disappear. 

Your little scan says power, Viz says Reiatsu and body.

Mangahelpers’s translation agrees with Viz’s.


The chair restricts his movements and the seals in his body restricting his Reiatsu near him.

After Yhwach destroy it, Aizen is freely flexing his spiritual energy

Using Kido again,

and performing as well as Shikai Ichigo in the physical department,

*Spoiler*: __ 






 

We have no reason to assume otherwise. Anything else, is your head-canon.


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## Divell (May 9, 2020)

wowfel said:


> It isn't a stretch to stay Aizen became stronger but during the fake karakura town arc, after Aizen transforms against Ichigo's dad, Urahara, and Yourichi they couldn't sense his reiatsu because he was on a higher plane of existence. When Ichigo fought Aizen he mocked him thinking that he sacrificed all his spiritual pressure for increased strength and speed. However, this was not the case because he realized the same way those below him can't feel his reiatsu he can't feel Ichigo's reiatsu. This means Dangai was at a much higher level than Monster Aizen.
> Scans ^ to prove this


The “higher plane of existence” is just the nature of his Reiatsu, otherwise neither Isshin nor Yoruichi would have caused any damage.


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## BossKitten (May 9, 2020)

wowfel said:


> *By that logic Orihime's barriers are planet level in terms of the damage it can tank as it blocked multiple attacks from Bach.* Furthermore, when Zangetsu was saying he only was able to use a fraction of his full strength he is referring to base and bankai Ichigo not Dangai or Mugetsu. Monster Aizen is leagues above most characters in bleach as even the strongest captains such as Ishin and Urahara couldn't sense his power in his Chrysalis form. Monster Aizen couldn't sense/feel his Reiatsu furthermore it's Urahara saying he might be stronger is entirely based on the power of his Kido. Either way his statement is unreliable because he couldn't even feel Aizens reiatsu during Karakura town when it was in Chryslis form.



Yes, that is exactly what they are since they can tank attacks that would hurt Ichigo. Her shields could tank high amounts of damage that could hurt Ichigo since HM. She's been hyped to have god-like power for a long time before that.


As for the Dangai Ichigo talk, he'd be considered a god in terms of power; however, he isn't on EOS Ichigo's level. Dangai Ichigo is nothing more but Ichigo's full Shinigami power. EOS Ichigo has that + his hollow powers + his quincy powers. The Dangai form only makes up 1/3 of his total power. 

Aizen while in seals strapped to a chair produced more power than his monster form did in his fight with Ichigo. The whole inability to sense a higher level beings power thing was more or less thrown out after the FKT arc. We seen this in the novels as well when Hikone (a soul king candidate) transcended "like Aizen in his fight with Ichigo" while fighting Zaraki and his power was felt + he was still weaker than Zaraki Kenpachi overall.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BossKitten (May 9, 2020)

Divell said:


> We also see when he stands from his fucking chair, all previous restrictions from his Reiatsu, completely disappear.
> 
> Your little scan says power, Viz says Reiatsu and body.
> 
> ...



Lol, it doesn't matter if the scan says power or if it says reiatsu, they end up being the same.

I'll make this easy for you... Point out where the panel of Aizen's power flex shows that he is now magically at full  power, and I'll shut up. Obviously you'd have to point out something that he did that produced more power than what he did while sitting down in the chair.

I'll wait.


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## Divell (May 9, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Lol, it doesn't matter if the scan says power or if it says reiatsu, they end up being the same.
> 
> I'll make this easy for you... Point out where the panel of Aizen's power flex shows that he is now magically at full  power, and I'll shut up. Obviously you'd have to point out something that he did that produced more power than what he did while sitting down in the chair.
> 
> I'll wait.


Dude is literally flexing his Reiatsu


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## BossKitten (May 9, 2020)

Divell said:


> Dude is literally flexing his Reiatsu



Yes. Which he also did while in the chair. So get to your point.


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## Divell (May 9, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Yes. Which he also did while in the chair. So get to your point.


Except that in the chair was mote concentrated around him

During his fight with Yhwach it was enough to pass by Yhwach.

His powers, were no longer being held around him and was able to move freely. Which even keep it around him, is still not meaning its lowering his power, merely his range.


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## BossKitten (May 9, 2020)

Divell said:


> Except that in the chair was mote concentrated around him
> 
> During his fight with Yhwach it was enough to pass by Yhwach.
> 
> His powers, were no longer being held around him and was able to move freely. Which even keep it around him, is still not meaning its lowering his power, merely his range.



That was him gathering power to shoot upward at the palace. 

Try again.


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## wowfel (May 9, 2020)

The seals has been mentioned to reduce the range of his attacks scans even though the manga shows otherwise when he's on his chair. Furthermore, his dangai form is the culmination of all his powers as well not just his shinigami this is evident because Fake zangetsu and zangetsu became one in Ichigos inner world. He just lost his Shinigami powers and reiatsu as a result of sacrificing his Shingami powers which clearly would effect his other abilities.


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## Medjaynegus (May 9, 2020)

wowfel said:


> By that logic Orihime's barriers are planet level in terms of the damage it can tank as it blocked multiple attacks from Bach. Furthermore, when Zangetsu was saying he only was able to use a fraction of his full strength he is referring to base and bankai Ichigo not Dangai or Mugetsu. Monster Aizen is leagues above most characters in bleach as even the strongest captains such as Ishin and Urahara couldn't sense his power in his Chrysalis form. Monster Aizen couldn't sense/feel his Reiatsu furthermore it's Urahara saying he might be stronger is entirely based on the power of his Kido. Either way his statement is unreliable because he couldn't even feel Aizens reiatsu during Karakura town when it was in Chryslis form.


What nonsense is this. Orihime blocked attacks from ginjo, mayuri, yammy, ulquiorra, and kept bankia ichigo sealed. So yes her shields scale to yhwach, shes always been powerful so this argument makes no sense.

Zangetsu made no difference about mugetsu/danagau and base/bankai ichigo. You need proof of this from what zangetsu stated. He clealry states he held back his power and what ichigo used was what he could not hold back.

 By fulbringer arc  people had reached near base aizen level or surpassed it. Many of the elites would be superior to both monster aizen and mugetsu. Kisuke is referring to his overall power, renji backs this up. Aizen with just his Reiatsu would bring the royal realm down, tanked his own hado 90 without any fuss, and tanked attacks from soul king yhwach. Kisuke also made the seals stronger after his fight with yhwach, so yes aizen is stronger. If his kido got stronger that would mean so did his reiatsu.


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## Medjaynegus (May 9, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Yes, that is exactly what they are since they can tank attacks that would hurt Ichigo. Her shields could tank high amounts of damage that could hurt Ichigo since HM. She's been hyped to have god-like power for a long time before that.
> 
> 
> As for the Dangai Ichigo talk, he'd be considered a god in terms of power; however, he isn't on EOS Ichigo's level. Dangai Ichigo is nothing more but Ichigo's full Shinigami power. EOS Ichigo has that + his hollow powers + his quincy powers. The Dangai form only makes up 1/3 of his total power.
> ...


On not sensing people, it wasnt thrown out. People all got stronger from 17 months and the royal guard training. Ichigo also gained control of his reiatsu.


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## wowfel (May 9, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> What nonsense is this. Orihime blocked attacks from ginjo, mayuri, yammy, ulquiorra, and kept bankia ichigo sealed. So yes her shields scale to yhwach, shes always been powerful so this argument makes no sense.
> 
> Zangetsu made no difference about mugetsu/danagau and base/bankai ichigo. You need proof of this from what zangetsu stated. He clealry states he held back his power and what ichigo used was what he could not hold back.
> 
> By fulbringer arc  people had reached near base aizen level or surpassed it. Many of the elites would be superior to both monster aizen and mugetsu. Kisuke is referring to his overall power, renji backs this up. Aizen with just his Reiatsu would bring the royal realm down, tanked his own hado 90 without any fuss, and tanked attacks from soul king yhwach. Kisuke also made the seals stronger after his fight with yhwach, so yes aizen is stronger. If his kido got stronger that would mean so did his reiatsu.


The Orihime thing makes sense but Renji saying that they have been training to be able to beat Aizen is like saying I've been studying to pass a test. Just because Renji and others trained for two years seriously doesn't mean that they can actually rival the power of Aizen.


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## Medjaynegus (May 9, 2020)

wowfel said:


> The Orihime thing makes sense but Renji saying that they have been training to be able to beat Aizen is like saying I've been studying to pass a test. Just because Renji and others trained for two years seriously doesn't mean that they can actually rival the power of Aizen.


Kubo confirmed that while they would still be worried by aizen level opponents they can still contend with them by fullbring arc. While they would still be worried by aizen level opponents most surpassed this by tybw arc. Renji tanking someone down that took two bankai captains down is proof of this.
TITE INTERVIEW

Q: RENJI TRAINED HARD TO BECOME STRONGER?

KUBO: YES.

Q: OTHER PEOPLE TRAINED AS WELL?

KUBO: YES.

Q: SO THEY WOULDN’T BE TROUBLED BY EVEN AIZEN-LEVEL OPPONENTS?

KUBO: THEY’RE NOT QUITE AT THAT LEVEL (LAUGHS). WHAT CAN I SAY, THEY’VE BECOME STRONGER. BUT EVEN SO, THEY HAVEN’T GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE THEY’RE NOT WORRIED ABOUT AIZEN-LEVEL OPPONENTS (LAUGHS)


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## Divell (May 9, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> That was him gathering power to shoot upward at the palace.
> 
> Try again.


That was still his Reiatsu restricted to his body.


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## BossKitten (May 9, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> On not sensing people, it wasnt thrown out. People all got stronger from 17 months and the royal guard training. Ichigo also gained control of his reiatsu.



Yes, they got stronger; however, being a shinigami isn't a form of ascension into a higher being, regardless of how strong you get. So the idea of not being able to sense someone who is in a higher plane of existence would still be in place.



Divell said:


> That was still his Reiatsu restricted to his body.



Nope. Black Coffin + reiatsu crushing the SK pieces.


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## Divell (May 9, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Yes, they got stronger; however, being a shinigami isn't a form of ascension into a higher being, regardless of how strong you get. So the idea of not being able to sense someone who is in a higher plane of existence would still be in place.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Black Coffin + reiatsu crushing the SK pieces.


Again, all that was still his Reiatsu restricted close to him.

His power doesn’t get lowered.


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## Medjaynegus (May 9, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> Yes, they got stronger; however, being a shinigami isn't a form of ascension into a higher being, regardless of how strong you get. So the idea of not being able to sense someone who is in a higher plane of existence would still be in place.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Black Coffin + reiatsu crushing the SK pieces.


Transcendence just means having more Reiatsu than someone. It has nothing to do with being above a shinigami. Ichibei releasing his zanpakuto made yhwach not sense his Reiatsu and kenpachi men couldnt sense his Reiatsu. People actually believe in transcendence  reiatsu.


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## Akira1993 (May 9, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> Transcendence just means having more Reiatsu than someone. It has nothing to do with being above a shinigami. Ichibei releasing his zanpakuto made yhwach not sense his Reiatsu and kenpachi men couldnt sense his Reiatsu. People actually believe in transcendence  reiatsu.


I truly believe that Ichibei has hax abilities to mess with Aizen.

He didn't see the release of Kyoka Suigetsu and as the Wisdom, he know everything and any Zanpakuto name, meaning he knows the ability of Aizen's Zanpakuto, he will never look in his release form and seal him with Ichimonji hax.

Ichibei will cut his Zanpakuto's name and it will lose his Absolute hypnotism abilities.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Divell (May 9, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> Transcendence just means having more Reiatsu than someone. It has nothing to do with being above a shinigami. Ichibei releasing his zanpakuto made yhwach not sense his Reiatsu and kenpachi men couldnt sense his Reiatsu. People actually believe in transcendence  reiatsu.


The whole Kenpachi sensing is bc his squad didn’t notice him before.

Ichibei’s power is conceptual, not spiritual base, Yhwach couldn’t sense anything from his Zanpakutou.

If Transcendental was merely having more Reiatsu, Isshin or Yoruichi, shouldn’t have been able to harm Chrysalis Aizen by mere effect of the difference between him and them, would have to be higher than Resurreccion Ulquiorra and Mask Ichigo.

Yet is not the fact. Isshin was capable of damaging with a Getsuga, Yoruichi cracked Aizen with Shunko and her own fists. 

While Ichigo’s Getsuga Tenshou wasn’t even capable of touching Ulquiorra.


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## Akira1993 (May 9, 2020)

Honestly Ichibei is the strongest character in Bleach besides the Yhwach's hax which has causality manipulation hax via his futures modification.

No one can defeat Ichibei in normal, conventional way, zero Shinigami nor Quincy.

Dude is also immortal and can revive himself.

He knows everything that exists in Soul Society, meaning all abilities from a Shinigami that comes from their Zanpakuto, he knows it as he is the one who gave name of all things.

He can seal, cut or modify any of their abilities or essence as many times as he wishes.

He has conceptual manipulation hax.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bad Wolf (May 10, 2020)

Aizen wasn't really harmed, they merely destroyed the chrysalis.



Divell said:


> Again, all that was still his Reiatsu restricted close to him.


How was the black coffin restricted close to him when he clearly affected a very big area?



Divell said:


> Except that in the chair was mote concentrated around him


Actually it's more concentrated around him in the picture you posted where you claim that's he's free. And with less reiatsu.
We have clear evidence that's he still got seals on him, he has just one eye free. So, what are you talking about? Why it's even contested something that anyone can see?
Nanana even points out that's the black suit that's restricting him.


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## Divell (May 10, 2020)

Bad Wolf said:


> Aizen wasn't really harmed, they merely destroyed the chrysalis.
> 
> 
> How was the black coffin restricted close to him when he clearly affected a very big area?
> ...


Reiatsu, not Kidou. 

His Reiatsu is the energy they exert. Kidous are spells.

I am not saying he is not restricted. I am saying his Restrictions don’t lower his power lv.


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## Bad Wolf (May 10, 2020)

Divell said:


> Reiatsu, not Kidou.


To use kidou you need Reiryoku/reiatsu. Or are you implying that kurotsuki was only restricting reiatsu crush for aizen?



Divell said:


> His Reiatsu is the energy they exert.


If we wanna get specific reiatsu is just spirit pressure. Reiryoku is the energy for kido or important stuff.



Divell said:


> I am saying his Restrictions don’t lower his power lv.


Well.
First of all, how that makes sense? They restrict him but that doesn't affect his power level? What kind of useless restriction is that supposed to be? The black suit is a limitation by itself.
We have a clear example with Nanana, we see that his defense is full of holes because of the restriction.
We even see that Aizen can't shot the royal palace because of those restriction.
If he can't defend himself that well because of the black suit with the same logic applies for attacks because he use the same source.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Divell (May 10, 2020)

Bad Wolf said:


> To use kidou you need Reiryoku/reiatsu. Or are you implying that kurotsuki was only restricting reiatsu crush for aizen?


Kido uses Reiryoku, not Reiatsu. And Aizen, Kyoraku, and Mayuri, explicity said, ot only restricts Reiatsu near him. So yes.




> If we wanna get specific reiatsu is just spirit pressure. Reiryoku is the energy for kido or important stuff.


Reiatsu = Potential, Reiruoku = Energy in the tank. 



> Well.
> First of all, how that makes sense? They restrict him but that doesn't affect his power level? What kind of useless restriction is that supposed to be? The black suit is a limitation by itself.


Is not useless. The lv of Reiatsu Aizen has allows him to disintegrate low tier Shinigami, kill the creatures created from the Reio’s power that Yhwach was unable to absorb (same creatures that Captains like Byakuya needed Bankai due to their number), destroy the dome surrounding Seireitei, and can blow the Royal Palace. All that, from sitting in a chair. 



> We have a clear example with Nanana, we see that his defense is full of holes because of the restriction.


It still doesn’t lower his attack power. 



> We even see that Aizen can't shot the royal palace because of those restriction.
> If he can't defend himself that well because of the black suit with the same logic applies for attacks because he use the same source.


Mayuri prevents him from using it, dropping the Palace. Yet when fighting Yhwach, we see flexing his Reiatsu again. Meaning Mayuri’s devices failed. They even needed Urahara to put new one, and Mayuri was worried that it wouldn’t be enough.

Remember the dick measuring contest Aizen and Mayuri had? It’s implied Aizen would have won in the novels.


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## Masterblack06 (May 10, 2020)

OKay has the argument for the last couple pages been about whether Aizen was at full power or not?


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## Divell (May 10, 2020)

Masterblack06 said:


> OKay has the argument for the last couple pages been about whether Aizen was at full power or not?


Pretty much yes.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (May 10, 2020)

Masterblack06 said:


> OKay has the argument for the last couple pages been about whether Aizen was at full power or not?


pmuch

the consensus is that he wins the match though due to regeneration


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## Masterblack06 (May 10, 2020)

Divell said:


> Pretty much yes.





Dreams of Tommorow said:


> pmuch
> 
> the consensus is that he wins the match though due to regeneration


Okay, well. I'll allow since you guys seem to be pretty civil about the debate. Keep up the good work gentlemen

Reactions: Like 2


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## Divell (May 10, 2020)

Masterblack06 said:


> Okay, well. I'll allow since you guys seem to be pretty civil about the debate. Keep up the good work gentlemen


Don’t test me.

Saying that is like daring me.


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## Akira1993 (May 10, 2020)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> pmuch
> 
> the consensus is that he wins the match though due to regeneration


And higher AP and Dura.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Medjaynegus (May 10, 2020)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> pmuch
> 
> the consensus is that he wins the match though due to regeneration


Also durability and skillset.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (May 10, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> And higher AP and Dura.





Medjaynegus said:


> Also durability and skillset.


those things are still being debated it would seem


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## Bad Wolf (May 11, 2020)

Divell said:


> Is not useless. The lv of Reiatsu Aizen has allows him to disintegrate low tier Shinigami, kill the creatures created from the Reio’s power that Yhwach was unable to absorb (same creatures that Captains like Byakuya needed Bankai due to their number), destroy the dome surrounding Seireitei, and can blow the Royal Palace. All that, from sitting in a chair.


And as far as we saw that wasn't changed
We only saw aizen disintegrate shinigami that was really close to him and we still saw that when he was sealed.
He was still stronger than normal shinigami, yes, but he was clearly limited in many ways.


Divell said:


> Mayuri prevents him from using it, dropping the Palace. Yet when fighting Yhwach, we see flexing his Reiatsu again. Meaning Mayuri’s devices failed. They even needed Urahara to put new one, and Mayuri was worried that it wouldn’t be enough.
> Remember the dick measuring contest Aizen and Mayuri had? It’s implied Aizen would have won in the novels.





Divell said:


> It still doesn’t lower his attack power.


We've seen Aizen flexing reiatsu many times, even when he wanted to shot down the royal palace was flexing until he was limited.
You claim that the devices failed on what basis? We've no indication that he was using more reiatsu in that fight, as a matter of fact we've seen even less flexing that time with batch, no visual energy gathering.
You need more evidence to claim something like that.
Aizen was limited in power, spiritual power works for attack and defense, if he can't defend that well then he can't even attack that well. For Bach is rather easy to heavily damage Aizen while he can't use his power properly to defend. One of the main point of the conversation was this.


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## Medjaynegus (May 11, 2020)

Bad Wolf said:


> And as far as we saw that wasn't changed
> We only saw aizen disintegrate shinigami that was really close to him and we still saw that when he was sealed.
> He was still stronger than normal shinigami, yes, but he was clearly limited in many ways.
> 
> ...


Bach didnt heavily damage aizen though. Aizen tanked two attacks and then got injure and regenerated.


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## BossKitten (May 11, 2020)

Divell said:


> Again, all that was still his Reiatsu restricted close to him.
> 
> His power doesn’t get lowered.



No. The SK pieces that Aizen reiatsu crushed were an equal distance away from him as the Captains and Vice Captains, which is why they were all able to talk after he crushed them. Then he held a ton of other SK pieces away with his energy, which was closer to his body. The energy he used here is far more than what he output when he just stood up against Bach, we know this because he ended a bunch of creatures that the others couldn't kill with physical attacks.








That flex from his chair was much more than him standing up with some dust flying around. Not to mention, once again, nothing is ever said about Mayuri removing his limitation or any additional seals being taken off to begin with. With so much pointing to Aizen being handicapped since we first seen him underground with Shunsui there really isn't much more to debate here.

P.S.
The scans show that Aizen's reiatsu could be pushed beyond the range close to his body if he tried, which supports the fact that no additional power was obtained from the scan where he stands up to fight Bach. Everything he did in the final arc was with only 3 seals removed and whatever limitation Mayuri put on him due to the suit.


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## Bad Wolf (May 11, 2020)

Medjaynegus said:


> Bach didnt heavily damage aizen though. Aizen tanked two attacks and then got injure and regenerated.


I was talking about that time he got a hole in his chest.
Of course he was not powerless, he could use kido, attack and do stuff but as we saw with Nanana the suit was a drawback for him.
If Nanana can affect him easily of course Bach can damage him easily while sealed.


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## Akira1993 (May 11, 2020)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> those things are still being debated it would seem


There isn't any debate over durability as he tanked an attack from Soul King Yhwach on screen.

You could argue with his AP tho.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Divell (May 11, 2020)

Bad Wolf said:


> And as far as we saw that wasn't changed
> We only saw aizen disintegrate shinigami that was really close to him and we still saw that when he was sealed.
> He was still stronger than normal shinigami, yes, but he was clearly limited in many ways.
> 
> ...





BossKitten said:


> No. The SK pieces that Aizen reiatsu crushed were an equal distance away from him as the Captains and Vice Captains, which is why they were all able to talk after he crushed them. Then he held a ton of other SK pieces away with his energy, which was closer to his body. The energy he used here is far more than what he output when he just stood up against Bach, we know this because he ended a bunch of creatures that the others couldn't kill with physical attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude. Your point only stands if you ignore the fact, Mayuri later on graduated the seals even more, and prevents him from using his Reiatsu altogether.

During his fight with Yhwach, we see this is no longer the case. As he is freely using Kidou and flexing his Reiatsu once more. In the novel, we learn Urahara had to once again, reinforce the seals, and Mayuri even stated, it wouldn’t be enough to prevent him from once again breaking his seals away and using his Reiatsu freely. 

The only reason he is in Muken right now. Is because he wants.


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## Bad Wolf (May 11, 2020)

Divell said:


> Your point only stands if you ignore the fact,


Nope, the only fact is that Aizen has many limitation.
Physical one, use of the reiatsu and effectiveness.
You claim that none of that applies during Bach fight, without any direct evidence, that's what's missing here.
It's a fact that his reiatsu is kept around him, that he's full of holes and the seal still are present and visible.
You keep claiming that flexing the reiatsu with bach is evidence that's free, but that's not. He already flexed his reiatsu before, he already casted kidou and used KS. Doing that stuff again with Bach is no different.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Divell (May 11, 2020)

Bad Wolf said:


> Nope, the only fact is that Aizen has many limitation.
> Physical one, use of the reiatsu and effectiveness.
> You claim that none of that applies during Bach fight, without any direct evidence, that's what's missing here.
> It's a fact that his reiatsu is kept around him, that he's full of holes and the seal still are present and visible.
> You keep claiming that flexing the reiatsu with bach is evidence that's free, but that's not. He already flexed his reiatsu before, he already casted kidou and used KS. Doing that stuff again with Bach is no different.


Sure dude, whatever you wanna believe.


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## Bad Wolf (May 11, 2020)

Divell said:


> Sure dude, whatever you wanna believe.


I don't have to believe in anything, I'm basing my arguments on what's show and I've no problem showing that to everyone else.
If you wanna believe in something else because you prefer so and want to discard what's shown on panel, go ahead, your choice. Though that's not ideal for debating.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BossKitten (May 11, 2020)

Divell said:


> Dude. Your point only stands if you ignore the fact, Mayuri later on graduated the seals even more, and prevents him from using his Reiatsu altogether.
> 
> During his fight with Yhwach, we see this is no longer the case. As he is freely using Kidou and flexing his Reiatsu once more. In the novel, we learn Urahara had to once again, reinforce the seals, and Mayuri even stated, it wouldn’t be enough to prevent him from once again breaking his seals away and using his Reiatsu freely.
> 
> The only reason he is in Muken right now. Is because he wants.



You're literally trying to say that Aizen was at full power against Bach for doing the same things he did while in the chair (kido, reiatsu flex, KS, and use words smoother than butter).

I've provided scans to counter every point you tried to make, and yet you're still here ignoring what is right in-front of you.

Feel free to provide a link to what your're talking about, I'll gladly read it when I wake up.


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## lastkiller (May 18, 2020)

Aizen can beat him easily....the hogyoku is too broken...it’s like evolution....if he is inferior to an opponent...he just evolves to a form more powerful than the opponent...and so on...for eternity


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## Akira1993 (May 18, 2020)

lastkiller said:


> Aizen can beat him easily....the hogyoku is too broken...it’s like evolution....if he is inferior to an opponent...he just evolves to a form more powerful than the opponent...and so on...for eternity


That is NLF dude but I get what you mean.


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## lastkiller (May 18, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> That is NLF dude but I get what you mean.


What does nlf mean?...hahahahaha...not familiar with abbreviations


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## Masterblack06 (May 18, 2020)

lastkiller said:


> What does nlf mean?...hahahahaha...not familiar with abbreviations


It means No Limits Falacy


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## Bad Wolf (May 18, 2020)

lastkiller said:


> Aizen can beat him easily....the hogyoku is too broken...it’s like evolution....if he is inferior to an opponent...he just evolves to a form more powerful than the opponent...and so on...for eternity


Saying that he can evolve for eternity is a No Limits Fallacy, which means that even if we don't know his limits for how far he can evolve and how stronger he can become we don't assume he can get stronger as he wants.
For example, usually here isn't assumed that gerard can reach planet level size because of his power.
They can regenerate for as long they have showed, based on their regeneration level, maybe they can get a bit of advantage against opponent of the same level, but that's it


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## Fullmoon Evergreen Prince (May 18, 2020)

Reiatsu crush gg.


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## lastkiller (May 19, 2020)

Bad Wolf said:


> Saying that he can evolve for eternity is a No Limits Fallacy, which means that even if we don't know his limits for how far he can evolve and how stronger he can become we don't assume he can get stronger as he wants.
> For example, usually here isn't assumed that gerard can reach planet level size because of his power.
> They can regenerate for as long they have showed, based on their regeneration level, maybe they can get a bit of advantage against opponent of the same level, but that's it


Oh okay...i get it...so it’s based on how far we saw the hogyoku advanced to right?...word


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## Bad Wolf (May 19, 2020)

lastkiller said:


> Oh okay...i get it...so it’s based on how far we saw the hogyoku advanced to right?...word


Basically yes, I think you can have some exception to power similar to this in some setting, but that's just a guess.


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## Medjaynegus (May 20, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> You're literally trying to say that Aizen was at full power against Bach for doing the same things he did while in the chair (kido, reiatsu flex, KS, and use words smoother than butter).
> 
> I've provided scans to counter every point you tried to make, and yet you're still here ignoring what is right in-front of you.
> 
> Feel free to provide a link to what your're talking about, I'll gladly read it when I wake up.


Aizen was given new seals and he wasnt at full power.

Reactions: Like 1


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## B Rabbit (May 21, 2020)

Kizaru somehow solos.


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## Akira1993 (May 22, 2020)

B Rabbit said:


> Kizaru somehow solos.


In his dream after smoking some crack.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Adamant soul (May 22, 2020)

THIS lasted eleven pages? 

They both die, everyone wins.


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## BossKitten (May 22, 2020)

Adamant soul said:


> THIS lasted eleven pages?
> 
> They both die, everyone wins.



You're on page 7.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Akira1993 (May 22, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> You're on page 7.


He is from the future.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Medjaynegus (May 23, 2020)

BossKitten said:


> You're on page 7.


That's what happens when you think your better or superior to everybody you talk shit that isn't true.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Masterblack06 (May 23, 2020)

After 11 pages I'm hoping you guys have reached some sort of consensus on who wins this


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## Dreams of Tommorow (May 23, 2020)

Masterblack06 said:


> After 11 pages I'm hoping you guys have reached some sort of consensus on who wins this


aizen wins

boros can’t overcome his regeneration 

it’ll be a battle of attrition in which boros will ultimately lose

Reactions: Like 1


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## The World (May 24, 2020)

Boros kicks him into the sun


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## Medjaynegus (May 24, 2020)

The World said:


> Boros kicks him into the sun


Hes never done that and aizen would still survive being in the sun.


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## Freddy Mercury (May 24, 2020)

Ajimu solos

Reactions: Like 1


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