# Natsu vs Luffy vs Meliodas



## Keishin (Sep 20, 2019)

Natsu gets 5minute prep 7DS power
Meliodas Demon King form
Luffy G4 he wont run out of haki


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## Affectugender (Sep 20, 2019)

How did you get your wifu's name wrong?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Imagine (Sep 20, 2019)

Meliodas > Natsu > Luffy


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## El Hermano (Sep 20, 2019)

I'mma bump this thread in a year or two when Luffy solos both verses.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Keishin (Sep 20, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> I'mma bump this thread in a year or two when Luffy solos both verses.


Meliodas hasnt even used his DK form much


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## El Hermano (Sep 20, 2019)

Keishin said:


> Meliodas hasnt even used his DK form much


His DK form means jack shit unless it hits small continent and relativistic with LS reactions.

And don't give me that fucking lightning shit. It was never seriously debated and none of you fangoys bothered pushing for it. So it means nothing as of now(even then, post-Wano Luffy should still have the advantage)


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## Keishin (Sep 20, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> His DK form means jack shit unless it hits small continent and relativistic with LS reactions.
> 
> And don't give me that fucking lightning shit. It was never seriously debated and none of you fangoys bothered pushing for it. So it means nothing as of now(even then, post-Wano Luffy should still have the advantage)


Meliodas very existence causes storms across Britannia and he's a global threat.
The "lightning shit" is a legitimate feat regardless.


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## El Hermano (Sep 20, 2019)

Keishin said:


> Meliodas very existence causes storms across Britannia and he's a global threat.
> The "lightning shit" is a legitimate feat regardless.


Yet, that feat is still capped at small country level. WB was also a global threat who was said to have the power to at the very least lifewipe. He's still capped at small continent level.

If you think his lightning feat is so legitimate, push for it, make a case and have it reviewed and accepted.

Until then, NNT is capped at small country and MHS+ and nothing you say matters(unless you make it matter).


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## SirTorch (Sep 20, 2019)

Honestly, Natsu should straight up scale to triple digit teratons, rather than single digit ones.
Etherion was stated to be able to destroy a whole country(with Fiore being the main country used in the series, as well as one of the smaller countries inverse), and August's suicide spell was going to destroy Fiore, which results in triple digit teratons.
And Acnologia & 7FM Natsu should be stronger than anything that August can dish out.

Using the explosion which is just starting to expand to scale Etherion is an unnecesary lowball.


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## Jag77 (Sep 21, 2019)

Natsu dies.


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## Gunstarvillain (Sep 21, 2019)

Natsu does have the power to melt anything with the intense flames of passion and friendship so...


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## B Rabbit (Sep 21, 2019)

Luffy will probably be able to solo this end of Wano. But as of now he loses.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blade (Sep 21, 2019)

> meluodas

it's the earth 2 version of ningenliodas


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## Rax (Sep 21, 2019)

7 Fire Dragons Natsu?

He curbs both of these fools at once


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## Alita (Sep 21, 2019)

Mel should win from what I know about him.


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## Warlordgab (Sep 22, 2019)

Is Meliodas obd profile up to date? What is his current standing?


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## Juan (Sep 22, 2019)

Warlordgab said:


> Is Meliodas obd profile up to date? What is his current standing?


Small Country and MHS+

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

This drastic downplay of FT. 

Lol


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## Playa4321 (Sep 22, 2019)

Juan said:


> Small Country and MHS+



So he and Natsu having the highest Ap but to be fair Luffy are stated to be far higher with G4(he is already island lvl).
Speedwise Luffy is the fastest of all three"likely relativistic with light-speed reactions with Gear Fourth"


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Playa4321 said:


> So he and Natsu having the highest Ap but to be fair Luffy are stated to be far higher with G4(he is already island lvl).
> Speedwise Luffy is the fastest of all three"likely relativistic with light-speed reactions with Gear Fourth"


Natsu is way higher than that.

The Dragon Cry was a concentration of dozens of Etherions and Natsu crushed the dude who absorbed it


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## Keishin (Sep 22, 2019)

Mel is also way higher than that. He is country lvl in base mode.


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## Warlordgab (Sep 22, 2019)

Here's a question about trying to multiply that Etherion calc for Natsu, wouldn't that be calc stacking?

IIRC we don't even use multipliers for Dragon Ball, so why should we treat FT any different?

If Meliodas is country lvl at base then he takes this... until Luffy gets the upgrade he needs


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## Kingdom Come (Sep 22, 2019)

Warlordgab said:


> Here's a question about trying to multiply that Etherion calc for Natsu, wouldn't that be calc stacking?
> 
> IIRC we don't even use multipliers for Dragon Ball, so why should we treat FT any different?
> 
> If Meliodas is country lvl at base then he takes this... until Luffy gets the upgrade he needs



He's Small Country as far as I know, not Country

Reactions: Like 1


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## Warlordgab (Sep 22, 2019)

Kingdom Come said:


> He's Small Country as far as I know, not Country



Then both Natsu and Meliodas are evenly matched in power output... but Meliodas being faster and having regeneration means he still wins

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Keishin said:


> Mel is also way higher than that. He is country lvl in base mode.


It was going to wipe out all of Ishgal

Which is far beyond Meliodas


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## Playa4321 (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax said:


> Natsu is way higher than that.
> 
> The Dragon Cry was a concentration of dozens of Etherions and Natsu crushed the dude who absorbed it



I just going by the profils of OBD on this site, can´t say much about Natsu but if the site don´t accept the Dragon Cry feat, then their is some reason and we can´t use them in this debate(if we really going by using the OBD profil). Small country lvl for Natsu sounds fine though, same goes for Meliodas. All 3 MC are almost equal, only with Luffy having the best speed by the far. And duo the hax which he get in the last chapters, he should winning this via speed+ Op attacks.


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## Keishin (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax said:


> It was going to wipe out all of Ishgal
> 
> Which is far beyond Meliodas


nah meliodas is a global threat.


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## Kaaant (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax said:


> The Dragon Cry was a concentration of dozens of Etherions and Natsu crushed the dude who absorbed it



Show proof pls


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## Bobybobster (Sep 22, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Show proof pls


this man is known for misrepresenting and lying about feats, he got called out for it last time and promptly disappeared.


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## Warlordgab (Sep 22, 2019)

Playa4321 said:


> only with Luffy having the best speed by the far. And duo the hax which he get in the last chapters, he should winning this via speed+ Op attacks.



Hax? Are you talking about the 'advance ryuuou' attack? I mean, this one:

Right?

We still don't have enough evidence to claim this kind of haki is an actual hax that bypasses durability


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## Playa4321 (Sep 22, 2019)

Warlordgab said:


> Hax? Are you talking about the 'advance ryuuou' attack? I mean, this one:



Yes he can attack know the organs and everything within the body and can ignore the durability of the enemy.



Warlordgab said:


> We still don't have enough evidence to claim this kind of haki is an actual hax that bypasses durability



We at least have intimation with Hyo statement which Ryuuou should be able to ignore Kaido durability and attack his organs within. I know we should still wait for real battle feats with this kinda of hax ability, but seeing how Luffy destroying mass block of steel with just using the shockwave without touching it shows how op this ability could became in the end.

Also speedwise and with Future sight, he should be able to dodge the attack of Natsu and Meliodas who damage each other much until Luffy could finish them off. After all this is a 1vs1vs1 battle where Luffy could take the advanced via dodging attacks and waiting until Meliodas and Natsu getting several wounds.


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## Kaaant (Sep 22, 2019)

Bobybobster said:


> this man is known for misrepresenting and lying about feats, he got called out for it last time and promptly disappeared.



Fair enough. Natsu never surpassed etherion? Also wasn’t he sub rel?


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## Bobybobster (Sep 22, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Fair enough. Natsu never surpassed etherion? Also wasn’t he sub rel?


Who even knows at this point, when was the last time the name "natsu" popped up here. I would trust @SirTorch though, he knows FT and doesn't wank.


*Spoiler*: __ 



As for rax, this man is so dumb he literally released a fake translation of a manga chapter to include the name "Dragon cry" (the fairy tail movie) and then used that as supporting evidence to say the movie is canon 

 for anyone who is interested , geez that super cringe bad guy dialogue from acnologia, ofc that's also fake.

My man is a 500 IQ keishin level debater

Reactions: Like 1


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## Juan (Sep 22, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Fair enough. Natsu never surpassed etherion? Also wasn’t he sub rel?


the dragon cry is stated to be above etherion, rax didn't lie about that. 

what he fails to mention is that the dragon cry fails to show destruction on any level close to etherion. 

but, hey, the bad guy absorbed the dragon cry and natsu beat him, so he scales, no?

except the guy absorbs the dragon cry after it has been used and we don't actually know how much energy was left in it, not to mention natsu beat him in a form which we haven't seen him use again.

and yeah, sub-rel (barely, like mach 11k) off eileen's meteor.


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## Bobybobster (Sep 22, 2019)

Juan said:


> the dragon cry is stated to be above etherion, rax didn't lie about that.
> 
> what he fails to mention is that the dragon cry fails to show destruction on any level close to etherion.
> 
> ...


he thinks people will eventually forget the problems with his calcs and accept them if he reposts them every year.

Moon level acno, never forget


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## Kaaant (Sep 22, 2019)

Bobybobster said:


> Who even knows at this point, when was the last time the name "natsu" popped up here. I would trust @SirTorch though, he knows FT and doesn't wank.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Sounds like a lionel suggs tier kinda guy lmao



Juan said:


> the dragon cry is stated to be above etherion, rax didn't lie about that.
> 
> what he fails to mention is that the dragon cry fails to show destruction on any level close to etherion.



Tbh this shouldn’t be that controversial. There’s plenty of examples of characters scaling to dc that they haven’t explicitly shown aoe comparable to themselves. Unless it’s an unreliable source. 

One piece is actually an example of that with WB and the admirals. 

I don’t know enough about ft to comment though.


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## OtherGalaxy (Sep 22, 2019)

Bobybobster said:


> Who even knows at this point, when was the last time the name "natsu" popped up here. I would trust @SirTorch though, he knows FT and doesn't wank.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



waitwaitwait


Acnologia weak to MOTION SICKNESS????


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## Bobybobster (Sep 22, 2019)

OtherGalaxy said:


> waitwaitwait
> 
> 
> Acnologia weak to MOTION SICKNESS????


No one could even stand up to a single finger of his, but the man got the achy-achy's from a shaking boat. Welcome to FT, welcome to Hiro Mashima


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## Blade (Sep 22, 2019)

OtherGalaxy said:


> waitwaitwait
> 
> 
> Acnologia weak to MOTION SICKNESS????




moon level natsu and acno is as legit as at least planet level ichigo and yeehaw


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## Blade (Sep 22, 2019)

i will say it everytime, because it's the truth

for nakaba

kongou banchou is his best series

for mashima

it's rave master

so simple


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## OtherGalaxy (Sep 22, 2019)

NnT could have been the greatest 



if he had stopped with Galan


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## Blade (Sep 22, 2019)

ironically

for both authors

not only their original series are the best, in quality

but they are also far stronger too


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## OtherGalaxy (Sep 22, 2019)

yeah it's funny for how complicated NnT is compared to KB, the Kongou brothers can literally just stomp and wipe out the entire cast


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## Juan (Sep 22, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> There’s plenty of examples of characters scaling to dc that they haven’t explicitly shown aoe comparable to themselves. Unless it’s an unreliable source.


oh, sure. that's not a problem. 

the issue here is that we see it fire. it destroys exactly one building.


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## Blade (Sep 22, 2019)

OtherGalaxy said:


> yeah it's funny for how complicated NnT is compared to KB, the Kongou brothers can literally just stomp and wipe out the entire cast




and in rave

endless alone can nuke the entire ft verse, in seconds


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## Juan (Sep 22, 2019)

OtherGalaxy said:


> waitwaitwait
> 
> 
> Acnologia weak to MOTION SICKNESS????


it makes sense in context


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Keishin said:


> nah meliodas is a global threat.


No he isn't

Nothing in SDS has gone outside of Britannia


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Blade said:


> and in rave
> 
> endless alone can nuke the entire ft verse, in seconds


Acnologia would eat the Endless

The guy literally got sucked into a hole in the universe and ate a void dimension between time, then shattered space and reality like glass.

Lel


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Show proof pls


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## Warlordgab (Sep 22, 2019)

Playa4321 said:


> We at least have intimation with Hyo statement which Ryuuou should be able to ignore Kaido durability and attack his organs within. I know we should still wait for real battle feats with this kinda of hax ability, but seeing how Luffy destroying mass block of steel with just using the shockwave without touching it shows how op this ability could became in the end.



Speed and precog are Luffy's advantages. But, claiming advanced haki is some sort of end-it-all move because it can destroy stuff from the inside out is not that much of a convincing argument. This is still exerting physical force, something that can be resisted through durability

And both of his opponents have insane strength. That kind of strength requires similar level of dura in their bones. If a muscles that can output island/country level power is anchored to a weaker bone structure, their bones would break with each attack they throw. So we can tell their bones and muscles are around near the same level as their physical strength

In the case of Natsu, Dragon Slayer magic makes his body become dragon-like, as explained in the first chapter of FT he has dragon-like lungs capable of exhaling fire. So, he has organs that can withstand flames and thunder beyond island level

I don't know much about Meliodas but I can tell that long ago he withstood lightning attacks from a city level character and as far as I know his brain, cardiac muscles, and blood vessels were just fine. And now he has small country dura...

Striking their insides won't give Luffy an edge here


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Show proof pls


The antagonist of the film, which is canon, consumed the Dragon Cry and Natsu thrashed him with a form far weaker than the one used in this match


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Bobybobster said:


> he thinks people will eventually forget the problems with his calcs and accept them if he reposts them every year.
> 
> Moon level acno, never forget


You mean the dude who literally consumed a dimension between time and broke reality like glass?


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

OtherGalaxy said:


> waitwaitwait
> 
> 
> Acnologia weak to MOTION SICKNESS????


Motion sickness fucks with the part of the body that controls your motor skills for dragon slayers.


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## Warlordgab (Sep 22, 2019)

@Rax please stop embarrassing yourself...


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Warlordgab said:


> @Rax please stop embarrassing yourself...


Be quiet.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax posts

not even once


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Rax posts
> 
> not even once


Are you going to give me an argument against this form of Natsu or not?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Sep 22, 2019)

That's like asking if I want to bang my head against a wall that has 0 grey matter


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## Masterblack06 (Sep 22, 2019)

Do we even know how big the Dimension was? I dont think saying he ate it means much without it

Like Someone can call themselves a dimensional eater but all they can eat is toilet bowl sized dimensions. Like okay, you can eat a toilet bowl, so what


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> That's like asking if I want to bang my head against a wall that has 0 grey matter


So you have nothing in regards to the thread and just came to be annoying?

Gotcha

I'll just block you I guess.


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Do we even know how big the Dimension was? I dont think saying he ate it means much without it
> 
> Like Someone can call themselves a dimensional eater but all they can eat is toilet bowl sized dimensions. Like okay, you can eat a toilet bowl, so what




I mean

We can see shooting stars constantly all around it.

Characters he fodderized made the dragon cry, which was going to wipe out Ishgal, which is a gigantic continent compared to IRL ones


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## Masterblack06 (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax said:


> I mean
> 
> We can see shooting stars constantly all around it.
> 
> Characters he fodderized made the dragon cry, which was going to wipe out Ishgal, which is a gigantic continent compared to IRL ones


Shooting Stars are just meteors burning up in the atmosphere so that doesnt tell me much.

I aint saying hes not strong but just saying he ate something isnt very indicative of power


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## Blade (Sep 22, 2019)

rax

block all of us

because we will never reply to your fanfic and imaginary thirst for natsu and his crew


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Shooting Stars are just meteors burning up in the atmosphere so that doesnt tell me much.
> 
> I aint saying hes not strong but just saying he ate something isnt very indicative of power



It was a hole in the universe made from time travel and it erased things that touched it

Acnologia got sucked into it, age it, and then created matter within it

*Link Removed*


Blade said:


> rax
> 
> block all of us
> 
> because we will never reply to your fanfic and imaginary thirst for natsu and his crew


Are you going to refute the Dragon Cry or not?

I'm still waiting for your pussy ass to reply to that Lord Drakkon thread you made.


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## Kaaant (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax said:


> The antagonist of the film, which is canon, consumed the Dragon Cry and Natsu thrashed him with a form far weaker than the one used in this match



Did natsu just bullshit another villain in this video?

What do you mean by far weaker?


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Did natsu just bullshit another villain in this video?
> 
> What do you mean by far weaker?


No.

The Dragon Cry also just straight powers up dragons/dragon slayers.

Natsu got affected by it earlier in the movie.

And the form he did this is maybe top 5 at beast. The one used in this thread is a specific one that's heavily above the partial dragon form he used in the film


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## Masterblack06 (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax said:


> It was a hole in the universe made from time travel and it erased things that touched it
> 
> Acnologia got sucked into it, age it, and then created matter within it
> 
> ...


Okay? A hole in the universe doesnt tell me anything about the size of it. 


Why are we bringing up Acno anyway? He was beating everyones ass till Natsu learned how to PUNCH HARDA using the combined power of his friends. 

Natsu wouldnt have that combined power thing here. and going by the other post you made The Dragon Cry is an outside power up, so he wouldnt get that here either.

So how strong is Natsu outside of either of these things?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax with that E-thug level callout


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## Blade (Sep 22, 2019)

red zero

chill, nerd

just because you drool over your natsu pillow, it doesn't mean we have to take you seriously


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## Blade (Sep 22, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Rax with that E-thug level callout




plecostomus-mouthed algae gobblers like rax, are just waste of time at debating with them


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## Masterblack06 (Sep 22, 2019)

Aye guys come on. I let it go for a little bit, but yall derailing right now. I gotta draw the line somewhere


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## Blade (Sep 22, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Aye guys come on. I let it go for a little bit, but yall derailing right now. I gotta draw the line somewhere




> me and rob ignored him
> he provokes like an angry fangirl on her period
> he tries to call me out with a 0/10 line
> you know the rest


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## Masterblack06 (Sep 22, 2019)

Blade said:


> > me and rob ignored him
> > he provokes like an angry fangirl on her period
> > he tries to call me out with a 0/10 line
> > you know the rest



Yeah i tried to say something earlier but that post didnt go through for some reason. Probably cause i was on mobile and sprint is ass


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Okay? A hole in the universe doesnt tell me anything about the size of it.
> 
> 
> Why are we bringing up Acno anyway? He was beating everyones ass till Natsu learned how to PUNCH HARDA using the combined power of his friends.
> ...


What?

He didn't learn a new form, he was enchanted with everyone there's power, which if you read the OP is the form used in this match

Acnologia was also drastically weakened from motion sickness and barely able to move.

And I'm bringing it up because the form used here is relevant to that level

The Dragon Cry was going to wipe out a continent and it's fodder to this version of Natsu


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Blade said:


> red zero
> 
> chill, nerd
> 
> just because you drool over your natsu pillow, it doesn't mean we have to take you seriously


Stay on topic or go to a different thread


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 22, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Shooting Stars are just meteors burning up in the atmosphere so that doesnt tell me much.
> 
> I aint saying hes not strong but just saying he ate something isnt very indicative of power


The Ravines of Time (that dimension) has more magic power in it than Fairy Heart which is said to be able to fire off Etherion endlessly or whatever

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zern227 (Sep 22, 2019)

Warlordgab said:


> Hax? Are you talking about the 'advance ryuuou' attack? I mean, this one:
> 
> Right?
> 
> We still don't have enough evidence to claim this kind of haki is an actual hax that bypasses durability


It not hax. It just an attack that would bypass Kaido's hard scales. 
Say like a character has strong armor or in the case of the Vinsmokes hard skin
Luffy's attack will just bypass the armor.


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## Masterblack06 (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax said:


> What?
> 
> He didn't learn a new form, he was enchanted with everyone there's power, which if you read the OP is the form used in this match
> 
> ...



Aight. Was just asking questions since im not about fairy tail like that. 



OneSimpleAnime said:


> The Ravines of Time (that dimension) has more magic power in it than Fairy Heart which is said to be able to fire off Etherion endlessly or whatever


So Acnologia is essentially bootleg off brand Galactus


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## Blade (Sep 22, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> So Acnologia is essentially bootleg off brand Galactus











you believe this? tell me now, do you?


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Zern227 said:


> It not hax. It just an attack that would bypass Kaido's hard scales.
> Say like a character has strong armor or in the case of the Vinsmokes hard skin
> Luffy's attack will just bypass the armor.


Natsu already learned to bypass a guy who was too durable for his general attacks, so he roasted him from the inside out


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## Masterblack06 (Sep 22, 2019)

Blade said:


> you believe this? tell me now, do you?


I meant with him eating magic and stuff. Its kinda like Galactus, fighting him with the shit he eats is how you get your ass beat


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Aight. Was just asking questions since im not about fairy tail like that.
> 
> 
> So Acnologia is essentially bootleg off brand Galactus


No, lol

They were trying to seal him within it, then he ate it and clawed through space/reality like glass*Link Removed**Link Removed*


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## Masterblack06 (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax said:


> No, lol
> 
> They were trying to seal him within it, then he ate it and clawed through space/reality like glass*Link Removed**Link Removed*


So yeah bootleg offbrand galactus


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> So yeah bootleg offbrand galactus


That doesn't really brand his character.


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## Juan (Sep 22, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> So yeah bootleg offbrand galactus


hardly. 

galactus isn't being a villain and trying to destroy the marvel universe because some mindless fucktard killed his favorite loli or anything


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## Masterblack06 (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax said:


> That doesn't really brand his character.


Dont worry about it, i was trying to lighten the mood a little but it didnt work 



Juan said:


> hardly.
> 
> galactus isn't being a villain and trying to destroy the marvel universe because some mindless fucktard killed his favorite loli or anything


God simplifying it like that makes it sound even worse than it already is


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Juan said:


> hardly.
> 
> galactus isn't being a villain and trying to destroy the marvel universe because some mindless fucktard killed his favorite loli or anything


That's not what Acnologia did.

Did you even see his story?


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Dont worry about it, i was trying to lighten the mood a little but it didnt work
> 
> 
> God simplifying it like that makes it sound even worse than it already is


That's not what happened. 

Ignore Juan please.


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## Warlordgab (Sep 22, 2019)

Zern227 said:


> It not hax. It just an attack that would bypass Kaido's hard scales.
> Say like a character has strong armor or in the case of the Vinsmokes hard skin
> Luffy's attack will just bypass the armor.



Agreed. I even tried to explain why it isn't hax due to the fact it still exerts physical force on a foe, which can be resisted by a high enough durability


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## Juan (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax said:


> That's not what happened.


rax, for the love of god 



don't bullshit me 

acno became a dragon slayer, met a cute loli who trusted him, and then the dragons attacked her city and killed her

that's where his hatred for dragons come from, they killed his pussy

now miss me with that "you're wrong!!111!!!" crap and go make another video on why zeref is as good a villain as griffith, i didn't laugh hard enough with the last one


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Juan said:


> rax, for the love of god
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's not his story


You know Mashima added his story to the anime???

The scene you're talking about was him coming across a motionless body of a kid who was being chased by dragons

To which Acnologia killed them and then apologized to the girl for not being able to save her.

He's not even the original Acnologia, you dunce


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## Juan (Sep 22, 2019)

> using filler to argue his point

that's gonna be a yikes from me, dawg


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Juan said:


> > using filler to argue his point
> 
> that's gonna be a yikes from me, dawg


It's not filler, but okay.


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## Juan (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax said:


> It's not filler, but okay.


show me it being canon


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Juan said:


> show me it being canon


Mashima talked about how he was adding it to the anime 2 years ago at a convention

If you wanna be a twat for the sake of being a twat go ahead, mang.

I'd rather not ignore you, but if I have to in order to prevent the off topic bait I will


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## Juan (Sep 22, 2019)

i don't see the proof of the anime being canon


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Juan said:


> i don't see the proof of the anime being canon


lol okay, have a nice day, Juan


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## Juan (Sep 22, 2019)

rax, you have legitimately shown nothing. you just told me "mashima said x". where's the interview? where's the link? 

i'm not going to go off your claims.


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## Warlordgab (Sep 22, 2019)

Juan said:


> i don't see the proof of the anime being canon



He doesn't have it. Some FT fans said he wrote it but I checked the twits and there is no mention of Mashima working on Acnologia's backstory for that episode...


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## Juan (Sep 22, 2019)

Warlordgab said:


> He doesn't have it.


of course there isn't. i've had this same argument with him like 5 times back on tmf and he never showed proof and only wanted us to buy his bullshit. 

at least jason kieffer just fucked off, rax comes back every 4 months acting like we didn't shut him down the last time.


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

He brought it up at a convention how he finished the story for Acno and how it was going to be put into the anime 2 years ago

And then we got it in the anime


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## Masterblack06 (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax said:


> He brought it up at a convention how he finished the story for Acno and how it was going to be put into the anime 2 years ago
> 
> And then we got it in the anime


Bruh. Thats a 59 minute video. At least time stamp it fam


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## Juan (Sep 22, 2019)

timestamps rax.


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Bruh. Thats a 59 minute video. At least time stamp it fam


I'm looking

This was dropped 2 years ago


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

I'm trying to find the posts that were quoting him from the interview


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## Masterblack06 (Sep 22, 2019)

Rax said:


> I'm looking
> 
> This was dropped 2 years ago


Not to be rube but you should have did that before posting it


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## Rax (Sep 22, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Not to be rube but you should have did that before posting it


That'd take foreverrrrr

Here's one of the translation posts from that interview




I'll have to look for more.

On topic though the form Natsu has here trashed a dragon who consumed a mass of energy that was going to wipe out the entire continent 

And Ishgal is like 68,000km wide


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## SirTorch (Sep 23, 2019)

@Rax Dragon Cry was going to destroy Ishgar overtime, so it ain't quantifiable. Using 10x Etherion multiplier is the only logical way, even then, unsure if that is accepted here.

As for the anime being canon, it really was stated by Mashima somewhere, just don't remember where.


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## El Hermano (Sep 23, 2019)

SirTorch said:


> @Rax Dragon Cry was going to destroy Ishgar overtime, so it ain't quantifiable. Using 10x Etherion multiplier is the only logical way, even then, unsure if that is accepted here.
> 
> As for the anime being canon, it really was stated by Mashima somewhere, just don't remember where.


Well, too bad. Only thing Rax provided was an hour long video with no timestamp(because he couldn't even find it) and a shitty vague tweet that confirms nothing.


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## Keishin (Sep 23, 2019)

Acnologias first roar is > etherion im sure.


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## Steven (Sep 23, 2019)

7F Natsu scales to Etherion,which is in the 3 digit TT range.

He oneshots this 2 clowns


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## Alita (Sep 23, 2019)

Can anyone not named rax give me some hard proof this FT movie is canon? Also juan brings up good points about the movie I wasn't even aware of.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rax (Sep 23, 2019)

SirTorch said:


> @Rax Dragon Cry was going to destroy Ishgar overtime, so it ain't quantifiable. Using 10x Etherion multiplier is the only logical way, even then, unsure if that is accepted here.
> 
> As for the anime being canon, it really was stated by Mashima somewhere, just don't remember where.


Yes, the method was going to be overtime, I agree

But the staff itself is the energy. The Dragon Cry itself was the total power solidified. It was highly concentrated Ethernano to the point it became physical matter. 

To which Animus ate and absorbed


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## Rax (Sep 23, 2019)

Keishin said:


> Acnologias first roar is > etherion im sure.


It was stated his Roar was a record high level of energy by the council


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## Rax (Sep 23, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> 7F Natsu scales to Etherion,which is in the 3 digit TT range.
> 
> He oneshots this 2 clowns


It's why higher than 3 TT

lol


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 23, 2019)

Alita54 said:


> Can anyone not named rax give me some hard proof this FT movie is canon? Also juan brings up good points about the movie I wasn't even aware of.


Movie events have been brought up twice so far in the manga and iirc the movie itself doesnt contradict anything so

Acnologia’s backstory that was posted last page or something was from Dragon Cry and the 4th generation dragon slayers from the movie are brought up in 100 year quest when they run into Diablos

If you want pages youre gonna have to wait a bit hough

Reactions: Like 1


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## Alita (Sep 23, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Movie events have been brought up twice so far in the manga and iirc the movie itself doesnt contradict anything so
> 
> Acnologia’s backstory that was posted last page or something was from Dragon Cry and the 4th generation dragon slayers from the movie are brought up in 100 year quest when they run into Diablos
> 
> If you want pages youre gonna have to wait a bit hough



Yeah when you get the chance I'd like to see pages.


----------



## Warlordgab (Sep 23, 2019)

Alita54 said:


> Yeah when you get the chance I'd like to see pages.



I can show you one page at least...

The 4th generation of Dragon Slayers only seen in the movie were referenced here

I'd wish we could've had a reference to SW in the One Piece manga... although that wouldn't change anything at this point lol


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## Kaaant (Sep 23, 2019)

What is natsu’s dc right now? Does he at least scale to etherion?


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## Warlordgab (Sep 23, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> What is natsu’s dc right now? Does he at least scale to etherion?



The common consensus is single-digit teraton, scaled to Etherion... as far as I can tell


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## Steven (Sep 23, 2019)

Rax said:


> It's why higher than 3 TT
> 
> lol


How much it was?

1 Digit PT´s?


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## Juan (Sep 23, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> What is natsu’s dc right now? Does he at least scale to etherion?


in his 7 Dragon Slayers form, yes, he scales to Acno, and therefore Etherion. 

one thing, though, is that Acno was being nerfed by his motion sickness. motion sickness weakens dragon slayers enough that they can't even run, much less do any sort of physical activity. acnologia was probably very weakened when natsu hit him. 

one thing that lends credence to the statement is that Acno called Natsu "The Dragon King", implying that he finally became stronger than Acno. 

or maybe it's because Acno finally realized that friendship and companions are the true strength of anybody, and realized natsu was far stronger because of this.


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## El Hermano (Sep 23, 2019)

Efege said:


> How much it was?
> 
> 1 Digit PT´s?




Seems like the low-end of this calc is the accepted result.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Sep 23, 2019)

Lets ignore that the Magic of the whole continent was needed to hold him inside the fairy sphere...

Or that 7F is>FDGM,which is alone on par with Acno


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## Juan (Sep 23, 2019)

Efege said:


> FDGM,which is alone on par with Acno


no, it isn't. natsu got the literal embers remaining from igneel, who wasn't even fully on par with acno when they fought.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 23, 2019)

Juan said:


> no, it isn't. natsu got the literal embers remaining from igneel, who wasn't even fully on par with acno when they fought.


I think he means the one he got from Igneel’s kid, the fire dragon god


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## Juan (Sep 23, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> I think he means the one he got from Igneel’s kid, the fire dragon god


oh, that. 

yeah, no. the 7 dragon slayers form has exactly one feat, beating a severely nerfed acnologia.

the fire dragon god mode not only fought a being stated to be above acnologia, it also trashed it so hard they thought he killed the enemy and permanently destroyed their magic.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 23, 2019)

Juan said:


> oh, that.
> 
> yeah, no. the 7 dragon slayers form has exactly one feat, beating a severely nerfed acnologia.
> 
> the fire dragon god mode not only fought a being stated to be above acnologia, it also trashed it so hard they thought he killed the enemy and permanently destroyed their magic.


I dont buy them being stronger than Acno, ESPECIALLY when hes boosted so hard with the Ravines of Time. Plus i dont think he was that nerfed from the motion sickness, if he can even get it while hes in full dragon mode, but he was unable to directly defend himself


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## Rax (Sep 23, 2019)

The Etherion calc is highly low balled and doesn't even use small country sizes for FT.


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## Rax (Sep 23, 2019)

Natsu should scale to the Dragon Cry which was dozens of Etherions


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## El Hermano (Sep 23, 2019)

Rax said:


> Natsu should scale to the Dragon Cry which was dozens of Etherions


shoulda coulda woulda

You got a meta section, use it. For now he caps at small country level.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Sep 23, 2019)

Juan said:


> no, it isn't. natsu got the literal embers remaining from igneel, who wasn't even fully on par with acno when they fought.


Do you even know what FDGM is?Because i doubt that

FDGM trashed Merc,who is on par with base Acno


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## Rax (Sep 23, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> shoulda coulda woulda
> 
> You got a meta section, use it. For now he caps at small country level.


I mean


We can talk here too. Lol


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## Masterblack06 (Sep 23, 2019)

Rax said:


> I mean
> 
> 
> We can talk here too. Lol


I'd rather you did it in the meta so that you can lay out all the evidence and it can be treated with the respect it needs. I'd rather people not bloat a vs thread arguing about how canon something is or what level of power a character sits at


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## Rax (Sep 23, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> I'd rather you did it in the meta so that you can lay out all the evidence and it can be treated with the respect it needs. I'd rather people not bloat a vs thread arguing about how canon something is or what level of power a character sits at


Is there a thread already to post In?


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## Masterblack06 (Sep 23, 2019)

Rax said:


> Is there a thread already to post In?




Just make a thread so you can post your evidence and stuff fam


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## Jag77 (Sep 23, 2019)

Last I remember, yall were arguing about whether or not Natsu was small island+ or not.


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## ZxStAr (Sep 23, 2019)

Ok
Here the facts
Dragon cry is canon(half dragon natsu over powered dragon cry which  is 10x stronger etherion)

Natsu should scale on stats way higher than mel or luffy

And natsu strongest form so far is Ignia flame natsu


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## Rax (Sep 23, 2019)

ZxStAr said:


> Ok
> Here the facts
> Dragon cry is canon(half dragon natsu over powered dragon cry which  is 10x stronger etherion)
> 
> ...


I mean

If this was Etherious Dragon Force Natsu then he'd crush the other two with no difficulty


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## Alita (Sep 23, 2019)

Juan said:


> oh, that.
> 
> yeah, no. the 7 dragon slayers form has exactly one feat, beating a severely nerfed acnologia.
> 
> the fire dragon god mode not only fought a being stated to be above acnologia, it also trashed it so hard they thought he killed the enemy and permanently destroyed their magic.



If you referring to the 100 years quest manga when natsu fought the water god dragon then I specifically remember it being stated that the dragon was only at half it's maximum strength. And I honestly would only put the god dragons on the same level of strength as regular acno not ravines of time acno.


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## ZxStAr (Sep 23, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Who


i think he's talking bout this natsu


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## Rax (Sep 23, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Who


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## ZxStAr (Sep 24, 2019)

yea dat mode is overkill


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## SirTorch (Oct 6, 2019)

So shameless bump, but I found Hiro mentioning that he was "writing the script for the movie" in one of his afterwords:

*Spoiler*: _Afterword_ 



*Link Removed*


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## El Hermano (Oct 6, 2019)

SirTorch said:


> So shameless bump, but I found Hiro mentioning that he was "writing the script for the movie" in one of his afterwords:
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Afterword_
> 
> ...


What film? I checked both Phoenix Priestess and Dragon Cry, none of them have him credited as the/a writer.


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## SirTorch (Oct 6, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> What film? I checked both Phoenix Priestess and Dragon Cry, none of them have him credited as the/a writer.


This was the afterword from chapter 464. At that point in time, the priestess movie was already published, so it should be Dragon Cry, which was still in development at the time.
Not sure why he isn't credited in the wiki when he himself said that he is writing the script as seen in the afterword. I also remember him posting sketches he drew for the movie on twitter at some point.

(Couldn't find his twitter post, but find the sketches via google search)


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## El Hermano (Oct 6, 2019)

SirTorch said:


> This was the afterword from chapter 464. At that point in time, the priestess movie was already published, so it should be Dragon Cry, which was still in development at the time.
> Not sure why he isn't credited in the wiki when he himself said that he is writing the script as seen in the afterword. I also remember him posting sketches he drew for the movie on twitter at some point.
> 
> (Couldn't find his twitter post, but find the sketches via google search)


From what I could find, he was involved as an exec producer and storyboard artist. The screenplay wasn't written by him as far as the available public information goes. No idea why he said so. Perhaps that's a mistranslation of sorts? I highly doubt he was actually involved in writing the screenplay, yet wasn't credited for it anywhere.


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## SirTorch (Oct 6, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> From what I could find, he was involved as an exec producer and storyboard artist. The screenplay wasn't written by him as far as the available public information goes. No idea why he said so. Perhaps that's a mistranslation of sorts? I highly doubt he was actually involved in writing the screenplay, yet wasn't credited for it anywhere.


That's the official translation though. 
Also, it doesn't mention anyone who actually "wrote" the story on the Dragon Cry wiki page. It mentions that "It is directed by Tatsuma Minamikawa based on a screenplay by Shōji Yonemura. Mashima is involved as executive producer and storyboard artist."
So since mashima is mentioned as the storyboard artist, a.k.a the one who drew all the storyboards for the movie, it likely implies that he is the one who wrote the story itself as well.
Not to mention the fact that he mentioned it himself in the afterword.


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## SirTorch (Oct 6, 2019)

Also, I finally found the .
Although it is in japanese, the :
Quote:
"
From Hiro Mashima's interview with WebNewType.com discussing the concept of Dragon Cry:
   - Mashima had drawn the original storyboard, being almost 200 pages worth of content.
   - Mashima wanted the movie to coincide with the climax of the story, although he didn't plan on it happening. Talk of a second movie was brought up directly after Fairy Tail: Phoenix Priestess's screening. Also, while the first movie he wanted the viewers to cry, he wanted the second movie to be more simple with action-filled scenes and flashy battles.
   - A certain character's past that is revealed in the movie which hasn't been touched in the manga. Along with this, there have been parts cut due to restraints while there are parts included only in the movie that the manga couldn't include.
   - Mashima worked on the storyboard as if it were a weekly serialization.
"


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## El Hermano (Oct 6, 2019)

SirTorch said:


> That's the official translation though.
> Also, it doesn't mention anyone who actually "wrote" the story on the Dragon Cry wiki page. It mentions that "It is directed by Tatsuma Minamikawa based on a screenplay by Shōji Yonemura. Mashima is involved as executive producer and storyboard artist."
> So since mashima is mentioned as the storyboard artist, a.k.a the one who drew all the storyboards for the movie, it likely implies that he is the one who wrote the story itself as well.
> Not to mention the fact that he mentioned it himself in the afterword.


Drawing a storyboard =/= writing the story itself. Storyboards are meant to visualize actions in an already existing screenplay(usually by the directors). Sure, there are movies and TV shows that only have storyboards(like Family Guy iirc), but that's not the case here.
Even if Mashima's storyboard came prior to the screenplay(I assume that's the case here) that means there were changes made guaranteed, and the story was adapted to the length of a feature film. And I assume(I'd say certain) there was another storyboard drawn by him and the director for the final screenplay.

Either way, I don't see a point in discussing it since afaik it's not going to give any upgrades to FT's current stand in the OBD. I've already went through Rax's thread and he wasn't able to push any upgrade through(not to mention the amount of reaching).


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## SirTorch (Oct 6, 2019)

He wrote all the storyboards and stated himself that he is the one writing the script. There is not much else needed for proof of the movie being canon.
As for whether or not it brings upgrades or not, I don't really care. Just cleared it up because people had doubts.


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 6, 2019)

Ah yes, people trying to use dubious sources in order to canonize movies for their crappy favority series for wanking purposes.
And surprise surprise it's Rax doing it again.

It's 2017 again on NF.

I feel younger again.


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## Rax (Oct 6, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> What film? I checked both Phoenix Priestess and Dragon Cry, none of them have him credited as the/a writer.


He wrote both

Dragon Cry is confirmed canon in the manga


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## Rax (Oct 6, 2019)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Ah yes, people trying to use dubious sources in order to canonize movies for their crappy favority series for wanking purposes.
> And surprise surprise it's Rax doing it again.
> 
> It's 2017 again on NF.
> ...


Dragon Cry is canon

It's events were brought up in the manga

It's where 4th Generation Dragon Slayers were first introduced


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## Ice (Oct 6, 2019)

all we need is @Nighty the Mighty and I can feel like a new member again


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 6, 2019)

So...literally the same shit that was pushed unsuccessfully two years ago ?

Big yawn.


----------



## Ice (Oct 6, 2019)

Oh and for @Blade to get perm banned again


----------



## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 6, 2019)

Ice said:


> Oh and for @Blade to get perm banned again


We need Hunt to escape his infinite confinement too


----------



## OtherGalaxy (Oct 6, 2019)

oh man Hunt


that's a name I haven't heard in a minute


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## Rax (Oct 6, 2019)

TYPE-Rey said:


> So...literally the same shit that was pushed unsuccessfully two years ago ?
> 
> Big yawn.


I mean

The movie is brought up in the manga

lol

Otherwise there can't be 5th Generation dragon slayers since 4th Generation was introduced in Dragon Cry.

They even show the same guys


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## Playa4321 (Oct 6, 2019)

None of these posts confirmed that both movies are canon. Mangaka usually write the storyboards for the movies, yet none of them can be said as canon. Only special movies as The Last Naruto/Boruto can could call as canon and many other canon stuff who come up in movies.
Fairy tail wise the movies still aren't canon, their are to many lack of information. 
Nakaba and Oda write the storyboard and many other things for their movies, yet none of them are canon.

Again featwise by using this site feats, Luffy have the biggest chance of all three because he is far faster then them even though having not the better Ap.
Either Luffy or Meliodas take this battle.


----------



## Rax (Oct 6, 2019)

Playa4321 said:


> None of these posts confirmed that both movies are canon. Mangaka usually write the storyboards for the movies, yet none of them can be said as canon. Only special movies as The Last Naruto/Boruto can could call as canon and many other canon stuff who come up in movies.
> Fairy tail wise the movies still aren't canon, their are to many lack of information.
> Nakaba and Oda write the storyboard and many other things for their movies, yet none of them are canon.
> 
> ...


First movie is not canon.

Second movie is.

Mashima not only said it was connected with the manga, but he's included content from the movie into the manga twice, and did a novel that explains how the movie connects to the main series.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Oct 6, 2019)

dragon cry is as canon as memories of nobody and strong world


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## Warlordgab (Oct 6, 2019)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> dragon cry is as canon as memories of nobody and strong world



Wait! Did Kubo write or storyboard Memories of Nobody?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 6, 2019)

Memories of Nobody is canon sooooo


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## OtherGalaxy (Oct 7, 2019)

all fucking around aside the manga referencing shit that's only in the movie as part of its history and Mashima's involvement with it seems legit enough for me

It's not like Strong World where literally none of that plays into the manga at all other than "Shiki exists lol"

I know fuck all about Memories of Nobody


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## Rax (Oct 7, 2019)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> dragon cry is as canon as memories of nobody and strong world


Events of Dragon Cry were straight shown in the manga.

4th Generation Dragon Slayers were not only introduced in Dragon Cry, but they were brought up WHILE also showing them in specific in the manga

Stop with your bullshit


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 7, 2019)

I swear to god, if yall spend even one more page talking about this nonsense imma lock this. Post feats and what not that shows who beats who. The canonicity of your movie or whatever doesnt matter if you aint posting feats that beat out everyone elses.

Like damn son. I shouldnt even have to say this. Yall spent how many pages talking about how canon something is rather than posting feats for all parties involved to show who 100% wins


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## Kingdom Come (Oct 7, 2019)

Wasn't there a Thread for that Dragon Cry canonity bullshit
Post there


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## Kisaitaparadise (Oct 7, 2019)

Someone really going to put Luffy behind Natsu lol


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## Rax (Oct 7, 2019)

KisaitaParadise said:


> Someone really going to put Luffy behind Natsu lol


Some people are goofy


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## Playa4321 (Oct 7, 2019)

KisaitaParadise said:


> Someone really going to put Luffy behind Natsu lol



Yeah Luffy should be above Natsu via using the profil pages of these sites. Speedwise Luffy is the fastest of these three here. Also hr has enough Ap to beat them.


----------



## El Hermano (Oct 7, 2019)

Playa4321 said:


> Yeah Luffy should be above Natsu via using the profil pages of these sites. Speedwise Luffy is the fastest of these three here. Also hr has enough Ap to beat them.


I'm pretty sure both Meliodas and Natsu cap at small contry level, with Mel being the strongest out of the 3 atm.
Speedwise, it's still debateable if Luffy gets the scaling or not. If he does it's only for his reactions via CoO, since he was shitbltized by Kaido without his CoO.
Meliodas' profile page is not up to date. Even then, I'm pretty sure he was sitting higher than Luffy at island level.


----------



## Playa4321 (Oct 7, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> Speedwise, it's still debateable if Luffy gets the scaling or not. If he does it's only for his reactions via CoO, since he was shitbltized by Kaido without his CoO.



I just the information with I get from Luffy OBD Profil page:


> *Speed:* Supersonic+ (casually deflected cannonballs) | Hypersonic (Faster than Yama) | Hypersonic+ with massively hypersonic attack speed/reactions (faster than Kalifa, at least as fast as Zoro and Law, ,massivlye hypersonic+ with Gear Second (faster then lightning) | Massively hypersonic+ (dodged an Overheat from Doflamingo), his pre-cog also further complements his reactions, higher with Gear Second, *likely relativistic *with *light-speed reactions with Gear Fourth * (could keep up with Katakuri, a Yonkou's First Mate who has trained his CoO to an extent that, according to Rayleigh, only the strongest people in the world has)



By using the information of the OBD site his own combat/travel speed are relativistic speed with having LIGHT SPEED reaction in G4. He get scales to the one of Katakuri or Marco, so the scaling off him make sense. 



Skinny Phallus said:


> Even then, I'm pretty sure he was sitting higher than Luffy at island level.



We didn´t know how strong Luffy is in his G4 form, for sure he could be above Island lvl according to the OBD profil:


> * at least island level+*,* likely far higher in Gear Fourth* (at least Yonkou commander level post-Dressorsa seeing as Luffy fought on par with Katakuri who is Big Mom's strongest subordinate)



With we get from his profil, he is far faster then Natsu and Mel(they both are only MHS+, you mentionend that Mel profil is not up to date?) and has at least a AP to hurt and beat them, he isn´t far weaker in AP then Natsu and Mel.
Via his speed he should able to beat at least Natsu, of course Mel has strong regeneration power, im still not sure if he would stand up all the beat down of current Luffy who even master CoA.


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## SomnusUltima (Oct 7, 2019)

with new pseudo ignore durability Luffy win


----------



## Claudio Swiss (Oct 7, 2019)

SomnusUltima said:


> with new pseudo ignore durability Luffy win


No he doesn’t especially since we haven’t even see the effects of it’s on strong fuckers


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## El Hermano (Oct 7, 2019)

Playa4321 said:


> I just the information with I get from Luffy OBD Profil page:
> 
> 
> By using the information of the OBD site his own combat/travel speed are relativistic speed with having LIGHT SPEED reaction in G4. He get scales to the one of Katakuri or Marco, so the scaling off him make sense.
> ...


This "likely" doesn't mean he has it. It was also put there without anyone actually thoroughly discussing it. Luffy was blitzed by Kaido when he didn't use his CoO, Kaido gets the relativistic scaling and LS reactions via CoO. Hence, Luffy's not relativistic. relativistic+LS reactions apply only to top-dogs atm. While it would make sense Luffy has LS reactions with his level of CoO(and only with CoO), he's not fast enough to react to Kaido without it.

"Likely far above" doesn't mean shit. And that's exactly it: We don't know how far he is above it, it's unquantifiable atm so he stills caps at island level(I don't remember the exact number, but he gets the Chinjao scaling, which is the weakest DC out of the 3 participants by quite the margin).


----------



## El Hermano (Oct 7, 2019)

SomnusUltima said:


> with new pseudo ignore durability Luffy win


Ryo doesn't ignore durability.


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## Juan (Oct 7, 2019)

Luffy's Island Level is 84 gigatons, that's like 30x below either Mel or Natsu

Barrage my ass


----------



## Kingdom Come (Oct 7, 2019)

So it's either up to Mel or Natsu it seems


----------



## Juan (Oct 7, 2019)

Kingdom Come said:


> So it's either up to Mel or Natsu it seems


yes, and Mel wins that one via hax.


----------



## El Hermano (Oct 7, 2019)

Juan said:


> yes, and Mel wins that one via hax.


I'd say Natsu wins via Power of Friendship hax but Meliodas had recently acquired that power, too.


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## SomnusUltima (Oct 7, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> No he doesn’t especially since we haven’t even see the effects of it’s on strong fuckers


natsu and Mel are still overwanked fodders


----------



## Claudio Swiss (Oct 7, 2019)

SomnusUltima said:


> natsu and Mel are still overwanked fodders


Fodder that stomps luffy for now


----------



## Playa4321 (Oct 7, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> Luffy was blitzed by Kaido when he didn't use his CoO, Kaido gets the relativistic scaling and LS reactions via CoO. Hence, Luffy's not relativistic. relativistic+LS reactions apply only to top-dogs atm.



He was shocked to see that Kaido wasn´t even scratch by his attacks, also before Luffy blitz Kaido aswell manytimes, something with is logically if two fighters with such high speed fight each other lol. Luffy get scaled to YC1 lvl characters, also to guys like Marco(who has a clear feat against Kizaru too), he is at least in that range/probably equal in terms of speed. It doesn´t make sense Luffy beeing beyond guys like Marco after he gonna clash with Kaido again.

So getting beating by Kaido doesn´t mean any shit for his speed, he is still equal to the guys as Marco and co.
Luffy scales to guys as Marco and Katakuri, at least in Snakeman he should have relativistic+LS reaction speed who is beyond the speed lvl of Natsu and Mel.



Skinny Phallus said:


> "Likely far above" doesn't mean shit. And that's exactly it



He does mean something, Luffy should be at least able to clash with characters as the Admirals who have small continent AP who is one League above the ap of Natsu and Mel.
Also Luffy has Advanced CoA which should give him the ability to ignore durability, so he don´t need much higher Ap then Natsu or Mel( I agree with @Claudio Swiss



Skinny Phallus said:


> Ryo doesn't ignore durability.


The user speak about the advanced CoA who ignore durability, that was the point of Luffy to ignore Kaido hard skin and attack directly his body within,so the user is right.


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## El Hermano (Oct 7, 2019)

Playa4321 said:


> He was shocked to see that Kaido wasn´t even scratch by his attacks, also before Luffy blitz Kaido aswell manytimes, something with is logically if two fighters with such high speed fight each other lol. Luffy get scaled to YC1 lvl characters, also to guys like Marco(who has a clear feat against Kizaru too), he is at least in that range/probably equal in terms of speed. It doesn´t make sense Luffy beeing beyond guys like Marco after he gonna clash with Kaido again.
> 
> So getting beating by Kaido doesn´t mean any shit for his speed, he is still equal to the guys as Marco and co.
> Luffy scales to guys as Marco and Katakuri, at least in Snakeman he should have relativistic+LS reaction speed who is beyond the speed lvl of Natsu and Mel.


This is a whole new level of reaching, dude.

This isn't an excuse. Luffy wasn't "shocked", he just got blitzed after shitting himself. Luffy didn't "blitz" Kaido. He literally punched him out of nowhere, and then Kaido let him land hits on him, without even trying to stop him. That's not "blitzing".

Marco is fodder to Admirals. His "clear" feat against Kizaru is regenerating from his attack after being skewered by it, landing a hit that he was allowed to land that did nothing but push Kizaru back a little bit. Literally not even a single bruise was inflicted by it.

It does, because he was blitzed. Snakeman could arguably get the relativistic scaling, but he's pretty much stationary and so far it goes for his punches only best case scenario, rather than his ability to move his entire body at that level of speed.



> He does mean something, Luffy should be at least able to clash with characters as the Admirals who have small continent AP who is one League above the ap of Natsu and Mel.
> Also Luffy has Advanced CoA which should give him the ability to ignore durability, so he don´t need much higher Ap then Natsu or Mel( I agree with @Claudio Swiss


Ah..what the fuck? When have Luffy EVER shown this level of strength? He was literally one hit KO'd by Kaido and Big Mom. What the fuck are you talking about? Ryo DOESN'T ignore durability.



> The user speak about the advanced CoA who ignore durability, that was the point of Luffy to ignore Kaido hard skin and attack directly his body within,so the user is right.


No, it doesn't. Their innards would still have to be durable enough to withstand the pressure of several teratons of energy hitting them, making them just as durable on the inside. That entire "gotta only bypass Kaido's hard skin" bullshittery is pure PIS and this logic doesn't apply to OBD matchups. And I'm certain that shit is not going to be remotely enough to take Kaido down.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Playa4321 (Oct 7, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> This is a whole new level of reaching, dude.



No it isn´t, if you don´t understanding scaling and ignore all the feats which Luffy show against a YC1 and use only one feat where Luffy was shocked and get beaten by one of the strongest character, then yes you are totally denial.



Skinny Phallus said:


> This isn't an excuse. Luffy wasn't "shocked", he just got blitzed after shitting himself.



He was shocked, after seeing Kaido wasn´t even scratch by his barrage attack.


And alone the fact that Luffy was worried about Kaido skin either of his speed show that his problem was overall the power of Kaido and his defense.

And again you use the Kaido battle where Luffy face for the firsttime Kaido, without using Snakeman his fastestform. And without CoO he couldn´t react fast against a another relativistic fighter, so it make sense after all that he get hit.



Skinny Phallus said:


> Marco is fodder to Admirals.



Yet none Admiral outside of Akainu even push him away, he was still up until the end of the war, he wasn´t a fodder for sure lol...



Skinny Phallus said:


> His "clear" feat against Kizaru is regenerating from his attack after being skewered by it, landing a hit that he was allowed to land that did nothing but push Kizaru back a little bit.



The feat happen before when he react fast enough to stop Kizaru attack which get accept here:

*Spoiler*: __ 



*Link Removed*
*Link Removed*






Skinny Phallus said:


> Ah..what the fuck? When have Luffy EVER shown this level of strength? He was literally one hit KO'd by Kaido and Big Mom. What the fuck are you talking about? Ryo DOESN'T ignore durability.



Luffy scales to the one who fight against Admirals, so he should at least able to battle with these characters, beeing one shot by the strongest character mean´t dickshit. 

Ryo ignores durability wtf are you talking, Luffy literally hint it and Hyo even said it:
*Link Removed* 


Luffy trying to learn advanced CoA to break Kaido hard skins/or ignore them, he also did it with the collar steel, he destroy the collor within without breaking it out, he did the same later with the steal wall.

I don´t say Luffy is equal to Kaido, but he should be equal to Marco which make the scale legit.
Saying Kaido who is himself is far fast blitz Luffy who was in rage modus and couldn´t even use CoO is just totally denial.
And having a dangerous ability as the advanced CoA who could easily break steel wall shows how powerfull his attack is right now.


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 7, 2019)

How about we wait till Luffy uses it on someone before giving him feats without full context


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## Claudio Swiss (Oct 7, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> How about we wait till Luffy uses it on someone before giving him feats without full context


Nah let’s wank it even though we haven’t seen the effects on someone that’s strong as shit


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## El Hermano (Oct 7, 2019)

Playa4321 said:


> No it isn´t, if you don´t understanding scaling and ignore all the feats which Luffy show against a YC1 and use only one feat where Luffy was shocked and get beaten by one of the strongest character, then yes you are totally denial.


It is very much reaching. Kaido still gets small continent and relativstic/LS reactions scaling at most. Luffy was blitzed and oneshot by him, hence, Luffy isn't on that level yet. This is very fucking simple.
With your comments you've clearly shown you have no idea how scaling is actually done. This ain't OJ here, bro.



> He was shocked, after seeing Kaido wasn´t even scratch by his barrage attack.
> 
> 
> And alone the fact that Luffy was worried about Kaido skin either of his speed show that his problem was overall the power of Kaido and his defense.
> ...


That's a shitty excuse. Luffy still had his eyes on Kaido and was very much aware of what was going on. He got blitzed before he could even perceive it. The "hurr durr he was shocked so he couldn't react" is absolutely silly and in no way, shape or form is it portrayed Luffy was blitzed because he was completely in awe rather than him just being slower.




> Yet none Admiral outside of Akainu even push him away, he was still up until the end of the war, he wasn´t a fodder for sure lol...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yet, he couldn't do anything significant to any top-tier during the war, let alone hitting Akainu's real body. He got cucked multiple times.
Good for him that he showed the ability to do so, Luffy doesn't automatically get it because of it. Especially when he was only shown to be able to do anything to the likes of Katakuri using his Snakeman mode, which again - is stationary and exclusively uses punches.
Marco barely had any encounters with the Admirals, and he couldn't do anything significant to them whenever he did encounter them.



> Luffy scales to the one who fight against Admirals, so he should at least able to battle with these characters, beeing one shot by the strongest character mean´t dickshit.


Nothing but his speed is shown to be on par with Admirals. Try again.



> Ryo ignores durability wtf are you talking, Luffy literally hint it and Hyo even said it:
> *Link Removed*
> 
> 
> Luffy trying to learn advanced CoA to break Kaido hard skins/or ignore them, he also did it with the collar steel, he destroy the collor within without breaking it out, he did the same later with the steal wall.



Going past his skin =/= bypassing durability.
Those superhuman characters have to be durable enough on the inside to withstand the pressure from the level of energy they're scaled to. Their innards are very much superhuman, so the scaling also applies to them. So yes, an island level attack is going to do nothing to someone who's scaled to small country level, even if it hits his innards. Fucking simple. That's the case until Luffy actually shows the ability to damage Kaido by using it.



> I don´t say Luffy is equal to Kaido, but he should be equal to Marco which make the scale legit.
> Saying Kaido who is himself is far fast blitz Luffy who was in rage modus and couldn´t even use CoO is just totally denial.
> And having a dangerous ability as the advanced CoA who could easily break steel wall shows how powerfull his attack is right now.


Smh. Have you been reading my comments?
Luffy himself isn't relativistic. Perhaps in snakeman his attacks are, but nothing more. His CoO might allow him to deal with relativistic opponents, but he himself isn't necessarily there as of yet. It's very much debateable yet it was never fully agreed upon and was just tossed into his profile page as "likely".

Marco still caps at island level at best, speed wise he's shown to be superior to Luffy(perhaps excluding Snakeman version)speed wiseatm.

Luffy's still stuck at 98 GT at the moment, so both Natsu and Meliodas are far above him and even if he gets the relativistic scaling there isn't much he could do but get nuked in the process.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 7, 2019)

Offensive Haki stage 2 is basically giving luffy something Jinbei had since forever ago with Fishman Karate


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## Blade (Oct 7, 2019)

luffy will reach small continent level, soon









































in around 50 chapters

Reactions: Like 1


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## El Hermano (Oct 7, 2019)

Blade said:


> luffy will reach small continent level, soon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As far as I'm concerened that's considered just around the corner.


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## Blade (Oct 7, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> As far as I'm concerened that's considered just around the corner.




it's only a matter of time












































in 2020, it will be gear 5 time

Reactions: Like 1


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 7, 2019)

Blade said:


> it's only a matter of time
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Gear 7 will let Luffy fight evenly with UI Goku


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## Blade (Oct 7, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Gear 7 will let Luffy fight evenly with UI Goku




i can see it happening




































in dbh


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 7, 2019)

Blade said:


> i can see it happening
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats also when they do the fusion dance


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## Blade (Oct 7, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Thats also when they do the fusion dance































gouffy


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## El Hermano (Oct 7, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Gear 7 will let Luffy fight evenly with UI Goku


It's never too late to get Oda hooked on cocaine.


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 7, 2019)

Blade said:


> gouffy


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## Claudio Swiss (Oct 7, 2019)

Y’all bitches ain’t ready for Gear 5

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blade (Oct 7, 2019)

@Skinny Phallus @Masterblack06


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## El Hermano (Oct 7, 2019)

Blade said:


> @Skinny Phallus @Masterblack06


I ain't fucking with that hypocrite entitled shinobi shit bruv


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## Blade (Oct 7, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> I ain't fucking with that hypocrite entitled shinobi shit bruv




but








































you are posting in an ethiopian animu forum, named after him


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## El Hermano (Oct 7, 2019)

Blade said:


> but
> 
> 
> 
> ...




@SupaHotFyre So this is why you're doing so well here.

I can look the other way sometimes, but that nibba ain't fusing with Luffy or Goku, fuck no


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## Blade (Oct 7, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> @SupaHotFyre So this is why you're doing so well here.
> 
> I can look the other way sometimes, but that nibba ain't fusing with Luffy or Goku, fuck no


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## Playa4321 (Oct 7, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> Kaido still gets small continent and relativstic/LS reactions scaling at most.



Also Marco did it and the other Firstmates of a Yonkou. Katakuri has a ability with even a Yonkou doesn´t have, future sight get hyped by Rayleigh that only some strong person could use it. So alone the fact that Luffy couldn´t use his CoO against someone who has the same speed+CoO is enough that he get hit by Kaido...



Skinny Phallus said:


> Luffy was blitzed and oneshot by him, hence, Luffy isn't on that level yet.



Never said that Luffy was on his lvl, the point is simple that Katakuri and Marco are the one who Luffy get scaled, Kaido is still above Luffy so far.



Skinny Phallus said:


> With your comments you've clearly shown you have no idea how scaling is actually done. This ain't OJ here, bro.



Yeah and I use the profil pages of this site, not OJ or other another site who has nothing do with this site.
And by this site and scaling Luffy is clearly that lvl of speed, you are just denial...



Skinny Phallus said:


> Yet, he couldn't do anything significant to any top-tier during the war, let alone hitting Akainu's real body. He got cucked multiple times.



Doesn´t matter, alone the point that either the admirals couldn´t defeat him is enough here to say that Marco isn´t a fodder as you said. And again by scaling to Marco, Luffy should have the same speed and even probably the better CoO(Future sight). What do you do is just scaling Luffy to the top tiers and downplay him, even though Luffy scales to the one who have legit accept speed feats. And since Luffy scales to Marco, he should have the similar speed.



Skinny Phallus said:


> The "hurr durr he was shocked so he couldn't react" is absolutely silly and in no way, shape or form is it portrayed Luffy was blitzed because he was completely in awe rather than him just being slower.



We speak still about a character who couldn´t use CoO.
Katakuri was trashed when he couldn´t use CoO yet he could easily match with the speed of Snakeman.
When Katakuri get trashed by Boundman when he lose his CoO, his own speed wasn´t much behind Luffy speed, the problem was that Luffy could hit him via using his own speed+CoO.
The same goes for Kaido vs Luffy, it doesn´t mean Luffy was far behind Kaido speed, he just couldn´t use CoO so he get hit.
You compare doesn´t make any sense in that case, in the fact that the same thing happend to Katakuri aswell when he lose his CoO and get trashed by Boundman.



Skinny Phallus said:


> Marco barely had any encounters with the Admirals, and he couldn't do anything significant to them whenever he did encounter them.



Imo he encounter almost every Admiral, at most Kizaru and later Akainu. None of them take Marco down, he even block the attack of Akainu which is a impressiv feat either...



Skinny Phallus said:


> Luffy himself isn't relativistic. Perhaps in snakeman his attacks are, but nothing more. His CoO might allow him to deal with relativistic opponents, but he himself isn't necessarily there as of yet.



Yes his G4 Snakeman is his fastest form, but alone also with his G2 and Boundman he should be in a similar lvl, after all he was able to hit Katakuri in his base form. Since that his future sight get far better and overall he get stronger, you should understand now that Luffy gonna beat Kaido in the end of the arc. If he is far behind him in every category as you try to explain it here, he shouldn´t be even able to do that.



Skinny Phallus said:


> So yes, an island level attack is going to do nothing to someone who's scaled to small country level, even if it hits his innards. Fucking simple.



If we speaking out of feats then we talk about punches who could easily destroy steel, yet Natsu get injured by mera iron head by far weaker characters(Gajeel), it isn´t simple as you though. Natsu and Mel doesn´t show any durability feat who protect them from attacks who attack is body within. But even though I agree with @Masterblack06 that we first need a feat against a fighter so we could use this feat, so we can speak about Ryo later after we get a feat.

But speedwise Luffy is still in favour and he could at least win against Natsu(Mel is in favour overall in this battle) and probably would lose against Meliodas.


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## Blade (Oct 7, 2019)

btw

11 pages

and that ninger keishin, still didn't fixed the meluodas name into





























ningenliodas


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## OtherGalaxy (Oct 7, 2019)

keishin knows exactly what he's doing at this point


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## El Hermano (Oct 7, 2019)

Playa4321 said:


> Also Marco did it and the other Firstmates of a Yonkou. Katakuri has a ability with even a Yonkou doesn´t have, future sight get hyped by Rayleigh that only some strong person could use it. So alone the fact that Luffy couldn´t use his CoO against someone who has the same speed+CoO is enough that he get hit by Kaido...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What the fuck are you on, bro???

You said Luffy could trade hits with small continent Admirals, which is obviously false. The profile pages literally say "likely" and you also obviously don't understand that "likely far above" doesn't make him far above it, he's still stuck at island level+. HE'S STILL BELOW THE OTHER 2 IN THIS THREAD. G4 bounceman Luffy is not relativistic. He gets relativistic reactions via CoO at most. 




> Doesn´t matter, alone the point that either the admirals couldn´t defeat him is enough here to say that Marco isn´t a fodder as you said. And again by scaling to Marco, Luffy should have the same speed and even probably the better CoO(Future sight). What do you do is just scaling Luffy to the top tiers and downplay him, even though Luffy scales to the one who have legit accept speed feats. And since Luffy scales to Marco, he should have the similar speed.


He barely had any encounters with any of them, he threw a hit and fucked off every time. He was never the focus of the fight anyway. They focused on bringing down WB. Luffy scales via CoO. That's all there is to it. He got shitblitzed without it, period.



> We speak still about a character who couldn´t use CoO.
> Katakuri was trashed when he couldn´t use CoO yet he could easily match with the speed of Snakeman.
> When Katakuri get trashed by Boundman when he lose his CoO, his own speed wasn´t much behind Luffy speed, the problem was that Luffy could hit him via using his own speed+CoO.
> The same goes for Kaido vs Luffy, it doesn´t mean Luffy was far behind Kaido speed, he just couldn´t use CoO so he get hit.
> You compare doesn´t make any sense in that case, in the fact that the same thing happend to Katakuri aswell when he lose his CoO and get trashed by Boundman.


Do you not realize how retarded this entire argument is?
OBVIOUSLY LUFFY NEEDED COO TO AVOID IT BECAUSE KAIDO IS TOO FAST FOR HIM. You just said it yourself: Luffy got hit because he was too slow to react to it without CoO. Hot fuckin damn, bro. 
Katakuri got hit by Bounceman because he lost his composure and let Luffy hit him with a combo. He was never blitzed, he was just counter-attacked into a chain combo. Kaido straight up BLITZED Luffy from a distance while Luffy was literally standing there staring at him.



> Imo he encounter almost every Admiral, at most Kizaru and later Akainu. None of them take Marco down, he even block the attack of Akainu which is a impressiv feat either...


And yet, he's never actually straight up fought either for more than a single blow.
He blocked their attacks because of his REGENRATIVE POWERS. He got completely skewered by Kizaru and regenerated.
He couldn't even hit Akainu's actual form with Haki, how is that impressive? He landed a hit that he was allowed to on Kizaru, and that didn't do shit to him, it didn't even hurt him. Marco's done nothing to even make him a contender. He's stuck at 98GT, which is so fucking far below small continent it's not even funny.




> Yes his G4 Snakeman is his fastest form, but alone also with his G2 and Boundman he should be in a similar lvl, after all he was able to hit Katakuri in his base form. Since that his future sight get far better and overall he get stronger, you should understand now that Luffy gonna beat Kaido in the end of the arc. If he is far behind him in every category as you try to explain it here, he shouldn´t be even able to do that.


No, he shouldn't for the love of God. This is so dumb.
He got a PIS kick and a chain combo after dodging Katakuri's punch, that entire thing was bullshit as it is. THE GAP WAS LITERALLY SHOWN TO YOU ON FUCKING PANEL MULTIPLE TIMES. Amensic Big Mom didn't even need Haki to literally slap Luffy into a wall and break through his ADVANCED HAKI DEFENSES. She also knocked out Queen with 2 hits. Guess who Queen scales to?
Kaido literally blitzed and oneshot Luffy. 
You're doing so much mental gymnastics that your arguments are becoming borderline retarded.




> If we speaking out of feats then we talk about punches who could easily destroy steel, yet Natsu get injured by mera iron head by far weaker characters(Gajeel), it isn´t simple as you though. Natsu and Mel doesn´t show any durability feat who protect them from attacks who attack is body within. But even though I agree with @Masterblack06 that we first need a feat against a fighter so we could use this feat, so we can speak about Ryo later after we get a feat.
> 
> But speedwise Luffy is still in favour and he could at least win against Natsu(Mel is in favour overall in this battle) and probably would lose against Meliodas.



Natsu and Mel scale to small country+, single digit teratons. That's a lot higher than Luffy scales to. He can't do shit to them as of yet, so even if he were faster he'd still get nuked eventually.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rax (Oct 7, 2019)

Juan said:


> Luffy's Island Level is 84 gigatons, that's like 30x below either Mel or Natsu
> 
> Barrage my ass


Mang that's BASE Natsu at the moment


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## Rax (Oct 7, 2019)

Natsu took a Half power roar from Mercphobia, who's equal to Pre-SbT Acnologia

Who had fodder to him meld their powers with the united energy to wipe out a 66,000 wide continent.

Just saiyan.

Lel


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## Claudio Swiss (Oct 7, 2019)

Rax said:


> Natsu took a Half power roar from Mercphobia, who's equal to Pre-SbT Acnologia
> 
> Who had fodder to him meld their powers with the united energy to wipe out a 66,000 wide continent.
> 
> ...


Your kinda forgetting natsu needed to be amped against water god


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## El Hermano (Oct 7, 2019)

Rax said:


> Natsu took a Half power roar from Mercphobia, who's equal to Pre-SbT Acnologia
> 
> Who had fodder to him meld their powers with the united energy to wipe out a 66,000 wide continent.
> 
> ...








Natsu still caps at single digit teraton at best.


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## Juan (Oct 7, 2019)

Reminder that even if we brought Luffy to the same level as Meliodas/Natsu on stats

Meliodas can fight for decades on end with no visible signs of exhaustion


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## Rax (Oct 8, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Your kinda forgetting natsu needed to be amped against water god


Natsu tanked a half powered roar from Mercphobia prior to getting the boost from Ignia


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## Rax (Oct 8, 2019)

Juan said:


> Reminder that even if we brought Luffy to the same level as Meliodas/Natsu on stats
> 
> Meliodas can fight for decades on end with no visible signs of exhaustion


Meliodas and Ban took constant rests when fighting the demon king


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## Juan (Oct 8, 2019)

Rax said:


> Meliodas and Ban took constant rests when fighting the demon king


Who cares

I'm talking about Mel vs Ban


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## OtherGalaxy (Oct 8, 2019)

Their ability to even exist in purgatory is impressive

And Ban was there for what, millions of years or some shit?
"Resting" in purgatory is still having all of your senses assaulted 24/7


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## Rax (Oct 8, 2019)

Juan said:


> Who cares
> 
> I'm talking about Mel vs Ban


Where did they fight for decades?


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## Rax (Oct 8, 2019)

OtherGalaxy said:


> Their ability to even exist in purgatory is impressive
> 
> And Ban was there for what, millions of years or some shit?
> "Resting" in purgatory is still having all of your senses assaulted 24/7


Thanks to his immortality

To which he gave up right after.

Lel


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## Playa4321 (Oct 8, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> You said Luffy could trade hits with small continent Admirals, which is obviously false.



It is not, Luffy already fought against Fujitora in much weaker states form, in his current state he should at least put a fight against them.
Also he scales to the one of Jozu,Vista and Marco who could fight for shorttime against Admirals, so he doesn´t get rekt by them as you try to put him in fodder range. Again Luffy gonna face one of the strongest one piece character soon, he beeing much much under their lvl doesn´t would make any sense.





Skinny Phallus said:


> G4 bounceman Luffy is not relativistic. He gets relativistic reactions via CoO at most.



Because of your headcanon?
Can´t you read his profil page, it say he has light speed reaction(via his CoO) and his normal speed is already relativistic speed, are you deny his profil page? 
Fact is that Luffy has relavisitic speed+light speed reaction, it doesn´t matter if you headcanon can´t accept it, he literally get scaled as Natsu and Zeref did and the others as Meliodas and co. If you can´t accept scaling of Luffy, it is your problem not our...



Skinny Phallus said:


> Luffy scales via CoO. That's all there is to it. He got shitblitzed without it, period.



Again Luffy scales via CoO to having LIGHT SPEED REACTION, just read his profil page:


> Massively hypersonic+ (dodged an Overheat from Doflamingo), his pre-cog also further complements his reactions, higher with Gear Second, *likely relativistic *with *light-speed reactions with Gear Fourth * (could keep up with Katakuri, a Yonkou's First Mate who has trained his CoO to an extent that, according to Rayleigh, only the strongest people in the world has)



And before you came up with this "likely", you know that Natsu get scaled to Zeref who has "likely small country dura and ap" aswell right?
Luffy own speed is relativistc and with G4 he has even light speed reaction. He get scaled to guys as Marco and co, so it make sense here to having a high reaction speed.



Skinny Phallus said:


> OBVIOUSLY LUFFY NEEDED COO TO AVOID IT BECAUSE KAIDO IS TOO FAST FOR HIM. You just said it yourself: Luffy got hit because he was too slow to react to it without CoO. Hot fuckin damn, bro.



And again Luffy getting hit by a another relativistic user who could use his CoO not as Luffy, make sense that he couldn´t dodge it.It doesn´t mean that Luffy is far slower then Kaido, it more mean that Luffy couldn´t react fast enough against someone who probably use his own CoO aswell. I already explain this with Katakuri vs Luffy...

Against Kaido, Luffy problem wasn´t that he was slower then Kaido, more like he couldn´t react fast enough to dodge Kaido attack.
Again he don´t could use his CoO with is a big nerf in the new world, fighting off without CoO against the strongest creature,what are expect here?? 



Skinny Phallus said:


> And yet, he's never actually straight up fought either for more than a single blow.
> He blocked their attacks because of his REGENRATIVE POWERS. He got completely skewered by Kizaru and regenerated.
> He couldn't even hit Akainu's actual form with Haki, how is that impressive? He landed a hit that he was allowed to on Kizaru, and that didn't do shit to him, it didn't even hurt him. Marco's done nothing to even make him a contender.



Again Marco couldn´t beating guys like Kizaru or Akainu isn´t the point. Alone the fact that none admiral couldn´t put Marco in the total war is enough to say that he isn´t a fodder lol. Facing of a Yonkou lvl character without getting beating is impressiv, stop downplay his feats.



Skinny Phallus said:


> He's stuck at 98GT, which is so fucking far below small continent it's not even funny.



Yet he block the same attack of Akainu who could clash equal with Whitebeard df power, someone who as a small continent AP...
Still try to downplay Marco huh? 
*Link Removed* 



Skinny Phallus said:


> He got a PIS kick and a chain combo after dodging Katakuri's punch, that entire thing was bullshit as it is. THE GAP WAS LITERALLY SHOWN TO YOU ON FUCKING PANEL MULTIPLE TIMES.



 Call it what you want, he still lands the his hits. Or do you want to talking about PIS about the other characters as Natsu and Meliodas? I don´t even wanna think about how much PIS we see from both characters lol...



Skinny Phallus said:


> Amensic Big Mom didn't even need Haki to literally slap Luffy into a wall and break through his ADVANCED HAKI DEFENSES.



Luffy try to use the advanced Haki against Big mom but he fail, he couldn´t use it.



Skinny Phallus said:


> Kaido literally blitzed and oneshot Luffy.



Still a downplay logic of yours, why scaling though Kaido with Luffy when Luffy scales to the guys as Marco who has legit speed feats?? Do you even think that it make Kaido more impressiv to beat a YC1 lvl character easily instance of downplaying Luffy?
If we going by your logic, I could find tons of downplay feats for both Natsu and Mel against much weaker characters, are we playing this game now??



Skinny Phallus said:


> Natsu and Mel scale to small country+, single digit teratons. That's a lot higher than Luffy scales to. He can't do shit to them as of yet, so even if he were faster he'd still get nuked eventually.



I don´t deny it, as I said Mel and Natsu probably take it still but I would not underestimated Luffy who has already far higher speed lvl.
The only thing who is only left out is his AP, but sure he gonna take it later after he clash with Kaido and getting small continent lvl Ap.


----------



## El Hermano (Oct 8, 2019)

Playa4321 said:


> It is not, Luffy already fought against Fujitora in much weaker states form, in his current state he should at least put a fight against them.
> Also he scales to the one of Jozu,Vista and Marco who could fight for shorttime against Admirals, so he doesn´t get rekt by them as you try to put him in fodder range. Again Luffy gonna face one of the strongest one piece character soon, he beeing much much under their lvl doesn´t would make any sense.


"Luffy fought against Fujitora" AKA tossed a few hits and then was literally blown off with a swing from Fujitora, who literally did that to let him escape.

Jozu got oneshot, Vista never fought against an Admiral as far as I recall, him and Marco literally couldn't hit Akainu's real body, talk about fighting lmao.

He is much under his level, at least was. Until shown otherwise, he still caps at island level. Why do I have to reiterate this to you?






> Because of your headcanon?
> Can´t you read his profil page, it say he has light speed reaction(via his CoO) and his normal speed is already relativistic speed, are you deny his profil page?
> Fact is that Luffy has relavisitic speed+light speed reaction, it doesn´t matter if you headcanon can´t accept it, he literally get scaled as Natsu and Zeref did and the others as Meliodas and co. If you can´t accept scaling of Luffy, it is your problem not our...


His profile page says "likely". Stop being retarded. It was never fully discussed and he's only shown the ability to match Katakuri's speed Katakuri during Snakeman. That's all there is to it. He still sits at MHS+ with his other forms as it literally says in the wiki. What's up with the selective reading?.






> And before you came up with this "likely", you know that Natsu get scaled to Zeref who has "likely small country dura and ap" aswell right?


Yes, for his durability. They both get scaled to it. Fuck me if I know why it says "likely". But I do know the Luffy shenanigans were never fully discussed and after he was blitzed by Kaido because he didn't have CoO some people retracted from supporting it. Because Kaido scales to realtivstic+, and Luffy without his Haki was literally blitzed by him. Period. The excuse of "shock" is retarded and obviously not the case.



> And again Luffy getting hit by a another relativistic user who could use his CoO not as Luffy, make sense that he couldn´t dodge it.It doesn´t mean that Luffy is far slower then Kaido, it more mean that Luffy couldn´t react fast enough against someone who probably use his own CoO aswell. I already explain this with Katakuri vs Luffy...
> 
> Against Kaido, Luffy problem wasn´t that he was slower then Kaido, more like he couldn´t react fast enough to dodge Kaido attack.
> Again he don´t could use his CoO with is a big nerf in the new world, fighting off without CoO against the strongest creature,what are expect here??



Luffy literally COULDN'T react in any way shape or form, that has nothing to do with Kaido having CoO, this is literally not how any of thsi works. Kaido blitzed Luffy because he's simply leagues above him. Get that through your fucking head. My God.



> Again Marco couldn´t beating guys like Kizaru or Akainu isn´t the point. Alone the fact that none admiral couldn´t put Marco in the total war is enough to say that he isn´t a fodder lol. Facing of a Yonkou lvl character without getting beating is impressiv, stop downplay his feats.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Marco couldn't do shit, he's far below them as proven. The only reason he was any sort of factor was due to his regen ability which helped him deal with attacks that hit harder than he could usually handle. That's it.
I call this retardation.



> Call it what you want, he still lands the his hits. Or do you want to talking about PIS about the other characters as Natsu and Meliodas? I don´t even wanna think about how much PIS we see from both characters lol...


Even if he could land a hit he couldn't do jack shit to either and get nuked. So it's irrelevant.




> Luffy try to use the advanced Haki against Big mom but he fail, he couldn´t use it.




ck



> Still a downplay logic of yours, why scaling though Kaido with Luffy when Luffy scales to the guys as Marco who has legit speed feats?? Do you even think that it make Kaido more impressiv to beat a YC1 lvl character easily instance of downplaying Luffy?
> If we going by your logic, I could find tons of downplay feats for both Natsu and Mel against much weaker characters, are we playing this game now??
> 
> 
> ...


Because Luffy proved he couldn't handle top-tier speed, which Marco scales to solely due to reacting to Kizaru and not having it contradicted later on.
Luffy without his CoO was blitzed by Kaido, which you're reaching so fucking hard to make excuses for.

Yeah, I'm done here with this fucking dumb discussion. I'm not feeling like reiterating basic shit in an attempt to get you to understand it.

An absolute waste of time.


----------



## Playa4321 (Oct 8, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> "Luffy fought against Fujitora" AKA tossed a few hits and then was literally blown off with a swing from Fujitora, who literally did that to let him escape.



A Luffy who was far weaker and even hold back via saying where he hit to make it a fair battle against Fujitora.
Since that Luffy get stronger, learn Future sight and advanced CoA, he should give him a good fight though even if he would lose.



Skinny Phallus said:


> Jozu got oneshot,



Yes when he was in offguard and forget about Kuzan(who literally even said that it was a big mistake of Jozu to look away) when Marco and Whitebeard was in danger...



Skinny Phallus said:


> Vista never fought against an Admiral as far as I recall



But he fought against Mihawk who should be in similar lvl as a Admiral without getting defeated.



Skinny Phallus said:


> him and Marco literally couldn't hit Akainu's real body, talk about fighting lmao.



We speak again of Akainu on of the strongest characters, yet he and Marco clash several times without Marco getting defeated.
In your words a fodder would get stomp by such high class characters, yet Marco hold his own against these characters.



Skinny Phallus said:


> What's up with the selective reading?.



It isn´t my problem that you forget half of the things who happen in Marineford arc lol..



Skinny Phallus said:


> His profile page says "likely". Stop being retarded. It was never fully discussed and he's only shown the ability to match Katakuri's speed Katakuri during Snakeman. That's all there is to it. He still sits at MHS+ with his other forms as it literally says in the wiki.



Likely means he is at least in that lvl or probably little under that lvl. Stop being retarded.
By powerscaling he is in the same lvl of these guys as Marco who has a legit speed feat, what is hard to understand this scaling? Since Katakuri battle Luffy get even stronger and can proper use future sight as Kata did against him in the first battle. What the wiki state that he has light speed reaction with G4 with is far above the other two guys who are at best right now MHS+. 



Skinny Phallus said:


> Yes, for his durability. They both get scaled to it. Fuck me if I know why it says "likely". But I do know the Luffy shenanigans were never fully discussed and after he was blitzed by Kaido because he didn't have CoO some people retracted from supporting it. Because Kaido scales to realtivstic+, and Luffy without his Haki was literally blitzed by him. Period.



Likely isn´t the problem here, you make just try to downplay Luffy speed and powerlevel overall with compare him to one of the strongest characters in the verse lol.

Luffy getting blitzed by Kaido when he couldn´t use his CoO anymore, is this hard for you to understand this??
It doesn´t mean that Luffy was far slower, he just couldn´t react fast enough against a enough fast character.
Are you really start with just dumb idiotic logic here? By your logic Natsu is then far slower then Acnologia too because Acno trashed him, dodge and hit him easily as he was nothing for him. Basically Natsu was to slow to even hit Acnologia(until the end), does this mean now Natsu is far slower then Acnologia and not MHS+ in speed? No it just mean that Acnologia had the better reaction speed and could move faster out to dodge Natsu attacks.

That was Luffy problem against Kaido, he literally couldn´t use CoO anymore, so his speed vs Kaido speed+reaction speed(CoO) was something which we could expect. That doesn´t mean that Luffy is far slower, but thank god problem this gonna change soon when Luffy get his second battle against Kaido, then this nonsense about Luffy beeing far slower then Kaido can be stopped here.



Skinny Phallus said:


> Luffy literally COULDN'T react in any way shape or form, that has nothing to do with Kaido having CoO, this is literally not how any of thsi works. Kaido blitzed Luffy because he's simply leagues above him. Get that through your fucking head. My God.



With your logic Luffy was leagues above Katakuri who couldn´t dodge his attacks anymore as he did when he use his CoO.




Skinny Phallus said:


> Marco couldn't do shit, he's far below them as proven. The only reason he was any sort of factor was due to his regen ability which helped him deal with attacks that hit harder than he could usually handle. That's it.



His regen ability don´t give him the boost to stop the attack of Akainu lol.
In that case he would send fly away as Garp did when he hit him, but he couldn´t stop the attack of Akainu, not only one time but twice(later again). He has enough power to kick off two admirals, his feats are still good, calling him fodder is just being a troll who never probably proper read the One piece manga.



Skinny Phallus said:


> Even if he could land a hit he couldn't do jack shit to either and get nuked. So it's irrelevant.



Then why you even start to downplay Luffy speed if this is irrelevant?
Just for a example,Luffy is fast enough to dodge these attacks as, he can just stand away and watch how Natsu and Mel killing of each other(or getting bad injured). 



> Luffy try to use the advanced Haki against Big mom but he fail, he couldn´t use it.


As I post here, Luffy fail to use the barrie advanced haki as Rayleigh and Sentomaru did, Luffy literally even state that he failed, stop being such a fool and read the manga again. Hence, it feels like a start a discussion with someone who just overview the chapters and don´t read it proper:


*Link Removed* 

ck



Skinny Phallus said:


> Because Luffy proved he couldn't handle top-tier speed, which Marco scales to solely due to reacting to Kizaru and not having it contradicted later on.



As Natsu proved to don´t being in the speed lvl class as Acnologia(MHS+)?
Luffy couldn´t use his reaction speed, you still ignore this point.
Katakuri is fast or even faster as Luffy, yet he couldn´t handle Boundman aswell after he loose his CoO.
You compare doesn´t proof any shit, it doesn´t even make any sense at this point.



Skinny Phallus said:


> Yeah, I'm done here with this fucking dumb discussion. I'm not feeling like reiterating basic shit in an attempt to get you to understand it.



Yeah please read the manga again and come back, as now you don´t even know the context from the manga.


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## El Hermano (Oct 8, 2019)

Playa4321 said:


> A Luffy who was far weaker and even hold back via saying where he hit to make it a fair battle against Fujitora.
> Since that Luffy get stronger, learn Future sight and advanced CoA, he should give him a good fight though even if he would lose.
> 
> 
> ...



Lmfao, you're actually retarded. You're reaching so bad. Go read the definition of context before you write more incoherent walls of text.

 This ain't OJ here. And as someone who's been here longer and is one of the reasons OP received this speed upgrade to begin with - you obviously have no fuckig clue how things are done here.
Your retarded shit doesnt fly here.

What a waste of time


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## Voyeur (Oct 8, 2019)

>8 pages


>Keishin thread

Checks out.


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## Juan (Oct 8, 2019)

Rax said:


> Where did they fight for decades?


their communications had been captured

.net/nanatsu-

no-taizai/268/nanatsu-no-taizai-10755739.jpg

remove spaces



OtherGalaxy said:


> Their ability to even exist in purgatory is impressive


also, yes. ban and mel are basically immune to poison/absurd temperatures and etc.

Reactions: Like 1


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## El Hermano (Oct 8, 2019)

Voyeur said:


> >8 pages
> 
> 
> >Keishin thread
> ...


I also lost plenty of braincells reading shit here. Who else but Keishin?


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## Kingdom Come (Oct 8, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> I also lost plenty of braincells reading shit here. *Who else but Keishin?*




You reminded me of Quagmire and his Theme Song -


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

If you use Toeiland luffy this is a whole other fight Kappa


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## Claudio Swiss (Oct 8, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> If you use Toeiland luffy this is a whole other fight Kappa


Well he’s not being used


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Well he’s not being used


I'm just waiting for Oda to go full madman and make Luffy mention his other friends that he hung out with for a while.


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## Claudio Swiss (Oct 8, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> I'm just waiting for Oda to go full madman and make Luffy mention his other friends that he hung out with for a while.


Nah that won’t happen outside of a special cover


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## Juan (Oct 8, 2019)

Whoever put "likely lightspeed" or whatever on luffy's profile needs to get his fucking wiki permissions taken.


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Juan said:


> Whoever put "likely lightspeed" or whatever on luffy's profile needs to get his fucking wiki permissions taken.


Who the fuck did that


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## Playa4321 (Oct 8, 2019)

Juan said:


> Whoever put "likely lightspeed" or whatever on luffy's profile needs to get his fucking wiki permissions taken.





> * likely relativistic with light-speed reactions with Gear Fourth (could keep up with Katakuri, a Yonkou's First Mate who has trained his CoO to an extent that, according to Rayleigh, only the strongest people in the world has*



Light speed reaction with G4, he scales to the one of Marco and co.


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## Blade (Oct 8, 2019)

wow

keishin fixed meluodas name into meliodas

he actually fixed it

m-masaka!


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 8, 2019)

one step closer to 2027 Emperor Keishin arc


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## Blade (Oct 8, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> one step closer to 2027 Emperor Keishin arc








pictured: 2027 keishin and his stand







































guess who is who


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Blade said:


> wow
> 
> keishin fixed meluodas name into meliodas
> 
> ...


>giving credit to someone else when I'm around
Sasuga Blade


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## Blade (Oct 8, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> >giving credit to someone else when I'm around
> Sasuga Blade




wut

you fixed it?





























and i thought keishin knew how to edit the thread titles


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Blade said:


> wut
> 
> you fixed it?
> 
> ...


He wasnt around I dont think so i did it for him


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## Blade (Oct 8, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> He wasnt around I dont think so i did it for him



sasuga, masterblack koon


you will get your reward in obd 2027









































when president keishin exiles you and makes artist, the new obd mod


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## Blade (Oct 8, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Who the fuck did that




for luffy

it's only likely relativistic+ with *CoO *, as of now

i will edit it later


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## Rax (Oct 8, 2019)

Natsu still bodying these nerds 

Higher level than both while in his base form


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## Keishin (Oct 8, 2019)

Rax said:


> Natsu still bodying these nerds
> 
> Higher level than both while in his base form


nah natsu needs Dragon Force to fight here.


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Awww shit, battle of the titans bout to begin


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 8, 2019)

Titanically crippled you mean


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## Claudio Swiss (Oct 8, 2019)

>9 pages


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

from what im hearing and seeing it seems like its
Natsu > Meliodas > Luffy?

is that the gist of the arguments presented in this thread?


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Then again, Natsu has no way to deal with Full Counter or Vanishing Counter does he?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 8, 2019)

@Blade


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## Blade (Oct 8, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> @Blade




what an AMAZING feud

as AMAZING as






































watching a battle between azur lane and girlsfrontline weebs


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## Rax (Oct 8, 2019)

Keishin said:


> nah natsu needs Dragon Force to fight here.


Tanked a half powered roar from Merc without even going Dragon Force


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## Rax (Oct 8, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Then again, Natsu has no way to deal with Full Counter or Vanishing Counter does he?


Why does he need to?

Plus he'd just melt Meliodas' sword


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Rax said:


> Why does he need to?
> 
> Plus he'd just melt Meliodas' sword


Because both of those things can yeet magic, which is what Natsu runs off of.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Rax (Oct 8, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Because both of those things can yeet magic, which is what Natsu runs off of.


Full Counter just bounces magic back at twice power

Natsu already took that BoS and was fine


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Rax said:


> Full Counter just bounces magic back at twice power
> 
> Natsu already took that BoS and was fine


Okay? How does that help him here. Cause I dont think hes taking double his current attack power now with no damage.

And even if he can, he has no answer to full counter


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## Rax (Oct 8, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Okay? How does that help him here. Cause I dont think hes taking double his current attack power now with no damage.
> 
> And even if he can, he has no answer to full counter


Except he's literally ran into that situation and been fine

And his durability is far beyond his attack level. Taking Mercphobia's roar puts him far beyond Meliodas and Luffy


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 8, 2019)

Hellblaze would hella fuck him over too since it nullifies immortality/regeneration


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## Claudio Swiss (Oct 8, 2019)

Rax said:


> Tanked a half powered roar from Merc without even going Dragon Force


 
The dude got rekt  he didn’t tank it whatsoever


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## Juan (Oct 8, 2019)

> legitimately arguing with rax

ah yes, i also enjoy killing my own brain cells


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Rax said:


> Except he's literally ran into that situation and been fine
> 
> And his durability is far beyond his attack level. Taking Mercphobia's roar puts him far beyond Meliodas and Luffy


Can you post a scan of someone constantly hitting him with double his current attack power and him coming out unscathed then?
Also Again, he has no answer for it. When you opponent can not only reflect but completely erase your whole way of fighting. You dont really have much going for you


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Juan said:


> > legitimately arguing with rax
> 
> ah yes, i also enjoy killing my own brain cells


I mean Rax _seems_ like he can hold a decent conversation about things, so im giving him the benefit of the doubt


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## Claudio Swiss (Oct 8, 2019)

I don’t get why comparing some scrub natsu fought BOS is comparable to Someone on his tier and far lethal


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 8, 2019)

Counter Vanish shuts him down too

Meliodas is just an awful matchup for Natsu in general

If nothing else he can just use clones and take natsu's attacks beyond what he can tank and then oneshot him like that


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Counter Vanish shuts him down too
> 
> Meliodas is just an awful matchup for Natsu in general
> 
> If nothing else he can just use clones and take natsu's attacks beyond what he can tank and then oneshot him like that


I forgot he can multiply the double even further with his clones


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

So not taking into account abilities its
Natsu > Mel > Luffy

But taking into account abilities and shit its 
Mel > Natsu > Luffy


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 8, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> I forgot he can multiply the double even further with his clones


Add Hellblaze to that and he's pretty fucked


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## OtherGalaxy (Oct 8, 2019)

and Lostvayne is more than able to reflect Monspiet's purgatory flame, the same hellfire Mel uses, so idk why melting it was even brought up


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## Claudio Swiss (Oct 8, 2019)

So a mention melodias practically hard Counters natsu something fierce


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> So a mention melodias practically hard Counters natsu something fierce


Yeah if Natsu's whole thing wasnt magic related, this would be a different story


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## Rax (Oct 8, 2019)

Juan said:


> > legitimately arguing with rax
> 
> ah yes, i also enjoy killing my own brain cells


Mang you're just being a pissy bitch that Natsu 1 shots Luffy and Mel


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## Rax (Oct 8, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> I don’t get why comparing some scrub natsu fought BOS is comparable to Someone on his tier and far lethal



>Acting like his current state wouldn't be able to take 2x the level of his own fire again

Lel

Meanwhile what's stopping Meliodas' sword from melting?


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## Rax (Oct 8, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> So a mention melodias practically hard Counters natsu something fierce


No, he doesn't


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## Yox (Oct 8, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> The dude got rekt  he didn’t tank it whatsoever


To be fair, that's still tanking it & he came back for more after escaping the whirlpool above


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## Yox (Oct 8, 2019)

Anyway,Mel should take it with his full counter, vanish,clones & darkness . Doubt Mel would use hellblaze twice, once he sees Natsu eat that stuff


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## Rax (Oct 8, 2019)

Yox said:


> Anyway,Mel should take it with his full counter, vanish,clones & darkness . Doubt Mel would use hellblaze twice, once he sees Natsu eat that stuff


Full Counter literally does nothing to Natsu. 

Natsu melts his sword and proceeds to maul Meliodas.


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## Warlordgab (Oct 8, 2019)

Could you guys please stop using the water dragon god as an argument? Natsu was clearly outmatched by a nerfed Merc. And when Natsu got the amp he needed to beat the dragon, this happened...

Look at his hands. The power needed to pull off that win surpassed Natsu's own dura


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Rax said:


> Full Counter literally does nothing to Natsu.
> 
> Natsu melts his sword and proceeds to maul Meliodas.


>Full Counter does nothing
>Reflects Magic
How you gonna melt something when your fire is reflected?

>Vanish Counter wont do anything
>Erases Magic
How you gonna melt something when the thing your trying to melt can just erase your magic


This is the second time i've had to tell you this. There wont be a third fam


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Warlordgab said:


> Could you guys please stop using the water dragon god as an argument? Natsu was clearly outmatched by a nerfed Merc. And when Natsu got the amp he needed to beat the dragon, this happened...
> 
> Look at his hands. The power needed to pull off that win surpassed Natsu's own dura


So then Full Counter can most definitely hurt Natsu


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Also @Rax you keep saying Natsu one shots, but you have yet to show me anything that lets him beat full counter or vanish counter


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 8, 2019)

Natsu can't eat hellblaze

He will quite literally kill himself with it if it does since it shuts down healing and immortality

But Natsu's retarded enough that he would try it


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## Yox (Oct 8, 2019)

Warlordgab said:


> Could you guys please stop using the water dragon god as an argument? Natsu was clearly outmatched by a nerfed Merc. And when Natsu got the amp he needed to beat the dragon, this happened...
> 
> Look at his hands. The power needed to pull off that win surpassed Natsu's own dura


We know he was outmatched,but it's still impressive tanking Merc's 50% roar in base & coming back for more


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## Yox (Oct 8, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> So then Full Counter can most definitely hurt Natsu


FC was only a multiplier of 2. When reflected right?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 8, 2019)

He can use clones to crank it up to x16


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

Yox said:


> FC was only a multiplier of 2. When reflected right?


As @GiveRobert20dollars said, he can increase it using his clones to x16


Or he can just erase the magic using Vanish Counter


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 8, 2019)

What am I gonna hear next?
Natsu can Melt Asta's swords?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 8, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> What am I gonna hear next?
> Natsu can Melt Asta's swords?


Natsu can eat max power human torch's fire and be fine


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## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 8, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Add Hellblaze to that and he's pretty fucked


Dont think fire is a great thing to use against Natsu tbf


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 8, 2019)

It shuts down regen and healing and can kill immortals if you're good enough with it.

It's a great thing to use against someone who regenerates by eating fire lmao.


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## Yox (Oct 8, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> It shuts down regen and healing and can kill immortals if you're good enough with it.
> 
> It's a great thing to use against someone who regenerates by eating fire lmao.


Natsu doesn't regen from eating fire. He gains magical power & pretty big boost of MP too

Hellblaze from Mel, would be a bad move imo


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 9, 2019)

You know, i forgot Melodias doesnt need a sword to use Vanish Counter, He uses his hands to do that


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 9, 2019)

reminder his clones can probably do it too


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 9, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> reminder his clones can probably do it too


Reminder he also had been using full counter, from beginning of series until he got his sword back, with a broken sword. Melting his sword might not even stop full counters from happening


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 9, 2019)

X4 Assault Mode


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## OtherGalaxy (Oct 9, 2019)

still dk why the hell Lostvayne would melt to begin with

homeboy reflects the same hellfire he uses with it


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## Juan (Oct 9, 2019)

OtherGalaxy said:


> still dk why the hell Lostvayne would melt to begin with


> melt lostvayne

when it reflected monspiet's firebird

that got calced at like 100k degrees celsius

pressxtodoubt.jpg

and even if natsu was _so _far above mel (he isn't) mel's full counter can stop shit like 17x stronger than himself based off the albion/monspiet attack


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 9, 2019)

Concentrated nakama power just melts everything near it like some Project ARMS antimatter or some shit


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## Juan (Oct 9, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Concentrated nakama power just melts everything near it like some Project ARMS antimatter or some shit


natsu faya so hot it melts TIME, BRUH!


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## Rax (Oct 9, 2019)

The vanish brothers already doubled back and reflected Natsu's fire back early in the series. 

He's already dealt with thid and tanking a 50% roar from Merc only shows how much higher his durability is over his other stats. 

And neither Meliodas or Luffy are within the same horizon of even 50% Mercphobia

Saying full counter does anything to Natsu is canonically wrong.


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## SirTorch (Oct 9, 2019)

Full Counter really shouldn't do anything to Natsu. Having said that however, Natsu will STILL be expending magic power, and Meliodas will STILL not be hurt.
Not voting for either side, however Full Counter will still be as useful as Counter Vanish at the very least.


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## Claudio Swiss (Oct 9, 2019)

Rax said:


> The vanish brothers already doubled back and reflected Natsu's fire back early in the series.
> 
> He's already dealt with thid and tanking a 50% roar from Merc only shows how much higher his durability is over his other stats.
> 
> ...


Not really 
Trying to equate some scrubs natsu faced early in the series to someone who fare more dangerous and lethal is laughable that’s like comparing babidi to Martian Manhunter 
Second trying to wank him surviving the water GoD is laughable outside being impressive it’s not especially since said god was kicking his ass and natsu needing an amp to beat a 50% water god


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## SirTorch (Oct 9, 2019)

What Rax is trying to say is this:

Slayers in FT always had consistently impressive Resistance to their own element. In the BoS, Natsu no diffed his own doubled attack (vs the Vanish Brothers). Later on in Tartaros, Silver was unaffected by his own attack that was countered at him by Gray.
Even in Alvarez, base Natsu was able to withstand August's(who is leagues above base Natsu) Fire Pillar attack, because of his fire resistance (Natsu flat out stated that the only reason he negated it was because it was heat based).

Once again though, all it means is that Natsu won't be hurt by his own attacks. It doesn't really give him a way to attack Meliodas nonetheless.


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## Rax (Oct 9, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Not really
> Trying to equate some scrubs natsu faced early in the series to someone who fare more dangerous and lethal is laughable that’s like comparing babidi to Martian Manhunter
> Second trying to wank him surviving the water GoD is laughable outside being impressive it’s not especially since said god was kicking his ass and natsu needing an amp to beat a 50% water god



How so? The vanish brothers themselves aren't the comparison. It's the fact they doubled back Natsu's fire did nothing. Why would Meliodas doubling back his fire do anything? 

What? No one is saying Natsu is comparable to Merc. He DID take a 50% roar from someone equal to Acnologia and keep fighting. 

Natsu tanked attacks from Acnologia as well. 

The most consistent stat of slayers, especially dragon slayers, has always been their durability. 

Natsu showing he's able to take said 50% roar is consistent to his showings and puts his durability far beyond what Meliodas and Luffy can do. 

Not to mention Natsu's attacks have shown to to do internal damage like his fight with Madmole and Mercphobia where he's directly heated up their insides.


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 9, 2019)

Rax said:


> How so? The vanish brothers themselves aren't the comparison. It's the fact they doubled back Natsu's fire did nothing. Why would Meliodas doubling back his fire do anything?
> 
> What? No one is saying Natsu is comparable to Merc. He DID take a 50% roar from someone equal to Acnologia and keep fighting.
> 
> ...



Again, Natsu has not shown the feats of him tanking from twice to 16 times his own *current* firepower to the face with no damage. Saying because he did it earlier, therefore, he should be fine now, doesn't make a lick of sense. 

And this isnt some dudes halfway through the series either, these are dudes from almost Beginning of Series. Comparing Natsu's firepower then vs now is nonsense.


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## Rax (Oct 9, 2019)

S


Masterblack06 said:


> Again, Natsu has not shown the feats of him tanking from twice to 16 times his own *current* firepower to the face with no damage. Saying because he did it earlier, therefore, he should be fine now, doesn't make a lick of sense.
> 
> And this isnt some dudes halfway through the series either, these are dudes from almost Beginning of Series. Comparing Natsu's firepower then vs now is nonsense.



So what evidence do you have that his resistance to fire isn't capable of taking that much OF HIS OWN FIRE when he's taken a roar from someone who the entire group together couldn't do anything who was only at 50%?

If someone who at 50% is far beyond Natsu and Natsu has take said 50% attacks then why would the thing he's most resistant not scale beyond the elemetal attack of the literal opposite of his element? 

The argument that he can't take his own fire multiplied back at current when he's taking attacks far beyond HIS OWN LEVEL that's not only a different element, one he doesn't have a resistance towards, but one that generally counters his, is ridiculous. 

If he's taking a roar that completely nulled out his own level of power them there's zero logic in claiming the element he's got a high resistance to reflected back back will do anything.


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 9, 2019)

Rax said:


> S
> 
> 
> So what evidence do you have that his resistance to fire isn't capable of taking that much OF HIS OWN FIRE when he's taken a roar from someone who the entire group together couldn't do anything who was only at 50%?
> ...


So your telling me that in a prolong'd fight, Natsu is going to be able to continuously no sell all of his own magic being reflected back at him continuously every time he uses it? With no damage ever at all? Even if Melodius makes it 16x stronger than normal using his clones?


and for the third time, What answer does Natsu have to Full Counter and Counter Vanish to even be worth talking about his magic in the first place


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## El Hermano (Oct 9, 2019)

Juan said:


> Whoever put "likely lightspeed" or whatever on luffy's profile needs to get his fucking wiki permissions taken.


Nah fam Luffy is as fast as a Yonko bruv he was only blitzed by Kaido because he was shocked and the poop in his pants made him trip.


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## ZxStAr (Oct 9, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Again, Natsu has not shown the feats of him tanking from twice to 16 times his own *current* firepower to the face with no damage. Saying because he did it earlier, therefore, he should be fine now, doesn't make a lick of sense.
> 
> And this isnt some dudes halfway through the series either, these are dudes from almost Beginning of Series. Comparing Natsu's firepower then vs now is nonsense.


slayer element dont hurt them as shown wit silver when gray use sliver ice to hurt him


full counter is useless against natsu


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 9, 2019)

ZxStAr said:


> slayer element dont hurt them as shown wit silver when gray use sliver ice to hurt him
> 
> 
> full counter is useless against natsu


Why did it take so long for someone to bring that up? Thank you for supplying this information. and no Rax you didnt bring this up you just kept saying he could tank it

Full counter maybe useless offensively but defensively its still something Natsu cant deal with


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 9, 2019)

Natsu vs max power human torch lesgo


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 9, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Natsu vs max power human torch lesgo


I dont think they are implying natsu is immune to fire, just immune to being damaged by his own flames


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 9, 2019)

It's still a no limits fallacy to claim that they're unaffected by it.

If a fire attack is stronger than natsu's durability, resistance be damned that boy is getting roasted as seen when he fried his own arms vs the water god.

Bullshit it doesn't work on them


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 9, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> It's still a no limits fallacy to claim that they're unaffected by it.
> 
> If a fire attack is stronger than natsu's durability, resistance be damned that boy is getting roasted as seen when he fried his own arms vs the water god.
> 
> Bullshit it doesn't work on them


Well that does make sense. 

Fairy Tail debaters, do you have an answer for this?


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 9, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Well that does make sense.
> 
> Fairy Tail debaters, do you have an answer for this?


I know one answer they have.
Kugelblitz Nasu 

You ain't ready for that shit.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 9, 2019)

as seen here

this was after he used the amped attack to win

Full Counter Doubling effect wouldn't be useless at all

It's been shown you can punch through a DS's resistance


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 9, 2019)

TYPE-Rey said:


> I know one answer they have.
> Kugelblitz Nasu
> 
> You ain't ready for that shit.


Natsu focuses all his nakama fire into his pinky finger and fries the universe


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 9, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Natsu focuses all his nakama fire into his pinky finger and fries the universe


Kakarot style

"Hey everyone, i need all your nakama HEARTS , just put your hand up and think about what good friends we are"

Boom, universe's dead. 

Your move , Mashima haters.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 9, 2019)

@Masterblack06 So after reading the fight with that water dragon

Natsu needed a powerup from a god tier to beat 50% merc
the powerup isn't permanent

He can only access that mode by eating igneel's true son's fire or some stupid shit.

and it makes him go berserk

which uh

FT side never mentioned


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 9, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> @Masterblack06 So after reading the fight with that water dragon
> 
> Natsu needed a powerup from a god tier to beat 50% merc
> the powerup isn't permanent
> ...


 


This debate is confusing the fuck outta me fam.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 9, 2019)

I warned errone about debating rax

but no one listens


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## Juan (Oct 9, 2019)

Dragon Slayers are resistant to their element, not completely immune. Natsu fucked his arm up whem fighting Zeref because his flames were too hot.

Natsu's attack reflected at 16x his power is burning him to a crisp.


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 9, 2019)

All acording to Keishin's keikaku.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 9, 2019)

Ignia stating it's temporary





Natsu's body starting to be damaged by Ignia's flames


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 9, 2019)

>FT side
>Being dishonest

Quelle surprise.

When it comes to Belch, FT and DB it's pretty much a given.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 9, 2019)

Also for context's sake even with that powerup Natsu admits he can't beat a 50% merc on his own

and also basically outright admitting the only reason they beat acno was because they ganged up on him and all combined their powers


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## SirTorch (Oct 9, 2019)

This thread is using 7DS Natsu though, which is his strongest form to date. Don't know why everyone is bringing up Ignia's powerup


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 9, 2019)

Because Rax kept bringing it up like it even mattered


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## Kingdom Come (Oct 9, 2019)

Smh my head...


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## Kingdom Come (Oct 9, 2019)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> I also just noticed it's DK mode meliodas
> 
> That ^ (use bro) switches off Natsu's Magic and onetaps him with God/The Ruler



He then grooms the Child of Natsu Dragqueen and takes Lucy as his concubine, forever owning everything that Natsu owns


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## Rax (Oct 9, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> So your telling me that in a prolong'd fight, Natsu is going to be able to continuously no sell all of his own magic being reflected back at him continuously every time he uses it? With no damage ever at all? Even if Melodius makes it 16x stronger than normal using his clones?
> 
> 
> and for the third time, What answer does Natsu have to Full Counter and Counter Vanish to even be worth talking about his magic in the first place


It's almost as if he's got a massive resistance to fire and a durability that drastically exceeds his own DC


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## Rax (Oct 9, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> Why did it take so long for someone to bring that up? Thank you for supplying this information. and no Rax you didnt bring this up you just kept saying he could tank it
> 
> Full counter maybe useless offensively but defensively its still something Natsu cant deal with


I figured it was as fucking obvious as me saying be  can eat fire. 

It's literally a basic staple of slayer magic.


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## Rax (Oct 9, 2019)

Juan said:


> Dragon Slayers are resistant to their element, not completely immune. Natsu fucked his arm up whem fighting Zeref because his flames were too hot.
> 
> Natsu's attack reflected at 16x his power is burning him to a crisp.


Yes, with flames that straight burn time that are specific, not his general level. 

He's gotta get to levels that fodderize someone like Merc, who's able to little effort beat Natsu and shrug off his attacks.


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## Masterblack06 (Oct 9, 2019)

WAIT A FUCKING SECOND. I just realized who Rax was.

Your the dude from a while ago that was actually arguing that natsu's fire could burn time. 

NO, we are not doing that again. The shit makes no sense anywhere. You bring up that old song and dance here and i'll lock this thread so damn hard


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## Rax (Oct 9, 2019)

Masterblack06 said:


> WAIT A FUCKING SECOND. I just realized who Rax was.
> 
> Your the dude from a while ago that was actually arguing that natsu's fire could burn time.
> 
> NO, we are not doing that again. The shit makes no sense anywhere. You bring up that old song and dance here and i'll lock this thread so damn hard


It can and did burn time. It's how he fucking beat Zeref. Did you even read the manga?????

And actually, naw.

The *Planck* and maximum *temperature*
In the *Planck temperature* scale, 0 is absolute zero, 1 is the *Planck temperature*, and every other *temperature* is a decimal of it. This maximum *temperature* is believed to be 1.416833(85) x 1032 Kelvin degrees, and at *temperatures* above it, the laws of physics just cease to exist.


You're also arguing something not making sense in a fictional debate between a rubber bodied pirate, a reanimated demon dragon wizard, and a 3,000+ year old demon midget.


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## El Hermano (Oct 9, 2019)

@Masterblack06 CHOP HIM!


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