# Kazuma Yagami vs Shiba Tatsuya



## willyvereb (Jun 12, 2014)

"Yo! Heard you're the new heartbreaker in this town, Shiba Tatsuya, right?"


**SPARKLES**SPARKLES**
"You're the wind contractor, Kazuma Yagami."


"In the flesh. And, you should really stop doing that... sparkly thing."


"OK"
"Mr. Yagami, what business do you have here?"


"Nothing. I just decided to check out the new guy. Man, you're as bland as I've heard. What's your secret? Because if it's your complete lack of character then I'd rather choose to be a virgin. Well, too late for that..."



"I have the vague sense you're just mocking me."




"Good job figuring it out, genius. Then you know what's next, do you?"





*Spoiler*: __ 



So yeah, Kazuma Yagami from KnS versus Shiba Tatsuya from Mahouka.
The two actually share a number of similarties but also radically differ in certain aspects.
That's why I thought about this fight.
Whatever standard combat rules.
Both fighter is at their strongest (which mostly means something for Shiba, based on what I've heard).

Old versus new,
Who would win?
Ladies and Gentlemen, place your bets!


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## Iwandesu (Jun 12, 2014)

Kazuma deflorates him due to being more badass and better character. 
Is Shiba even ftl? 
Also, what's about Light Novel characters getting those badass presentations ? Is that just Darth and you?


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## lokoxDZz (Jun 12, 2014)

Kazuma takes this.


Tatsuya wasn't supossed to be at best LS?

Even with all the Hax that Tatsuya has Kazuma has more ways to deal with him than Tatsuya to deal with kazuma.

But Tatsuya has a pretty intense regeneration without his seal and a lot of AoE attacks(although he would take the epicenter of the atack and has to regenerate and kazuma can outrun it before it explodes) but then again Kazuma fought beings with regeneration way more stronger and broken than Tatsuya so yeah...

Badass and old good one take this


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## Regicide (Jun 12, 2014)

Was there ever a consensus on how legit the supposed light-timing feats from Mahouka were?


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## Nep Heart (Jun 12, 2014)

I think most of that stuff came from Boomy, who is currently dead, so someone may want to pick up on his work since he isn't answering any time soon.


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## TehChron (Jun 12, 2014)

That wonderful, wonderful wind of purification making a joke out of high speed regeneration

Controlling the battlefield means a lot when you can just grind your opponent down to nothing with the slightest opening


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## TehChron (Jun 12, 2014)

Ampchu said:


> I think most of that stuff came from Boomy, who is currently dead, so someone may want to pick up on his work since he isn't answering any time soon.



Sounds like someonell have to read it

Yet another thing to add to my to do list i guess


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 12, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Kazuma deflorates him due to being more badass and better character.
> Is Shiba even ftl?





> Was there ever a consensus on how legit the supposed light-timing feats from Mahouka were?


Well, someone did parry a laser (vol 10 or 11, iirc), that'd make them relativistic at most.

Edit: just checked, it's at the end of vol. 10


> Also, what's about Light Novel characters getting those badass presentations ? Is that just Darth and you?


Pretty sure willy's been doing that way before bang joined.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jun 12, 2014)

Geez all I've seen is a bit of the anime is that Gary Stu actually that strong?


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 12, 2014)

He can pretty much return back to anything short of death.
He can decompose shit(nullify magic, decompose things into basic molecules), can turn matter into energy.
He is a glass cannon though.
Pretty good at hth combat, and is pretty much resistant to pain.
Can shoot a single drop of water from 80km away.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jun 12, 2014)

Pretty impressive stuff considering how weak some of the magic shown was, but then again they're students and you've got pros going to him for help. In regards to the LS or relavistic stuff being mentioned about him, is it just reactions?


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 12, 2014)

Tatsuya has long surpassed a high school students standard of strength. (At least, when he is going all out)
That's acknowledge in verse. 
Actually, he even said that he could probably defeat his aunt in a fight, which is pretty much the strongest magician currently active.
He is just going to school because he is guarding miyuki.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jun 12, 2014)

Yeah, that much was obvious


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## Weather (Jun 13, 2014)

Kazuma is going to have to speedblitz here.

As far as I know Kazuma doesn't have anything against being decomposed.


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

Aside from sniping from kilometers away, turning completely invisible and undetectable, grinding the magic out of the air en route, shielding himself with wind capable of cutting space at FTL speeds...

I can go on, you know. Suffice it to say, Kirito 2014 edition isnt touching Kazuma. Speedblitzing is largely unnecessary.


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## Darth Niggatron (Jun 13, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Kazuma deflorates him due to being more badass and better character.
> 
> Is Shiba even ftl?
> Also, what's about Light Novel characters getting those badass presentations ? Is that just Darth and you?



Nah. Willy's been doing it for years now.


TehChron said:


> Sounds like someonell have to read it
> 
> Yet another thing to add to my to do list i guess



Weren't you the one whining about how shitty Mahouka is the other day?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 13, 2014)

teh is a masochist


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## Darth Niggatron (Jun 13, 2014)

Mapsk is back, lol.


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> teh is a masochist



It's true

Im a literary s&m practitioner


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 13, 2014)

Mahouoka isn't that bad, if you scroll past the sibling moments.
Which means skimming through a buttload of text.
Why the author bothered to put so much of that crap in there is beyond me, considering he put so much effort in his world building and the magic system.


P.S
Kazuma wins this, though the match isn't as unbalanced as some seem to think.

Also Musubi, most of the people we see in the show are complete fodder in the verse. 
Kazuma is one of 50 Strategic class magicians in the entire verse, which means he can single handedly tip the balance of power in the world.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jun 13, 2014)

> Mahouoka isn't that bad



You have shit taste, we get it.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 13, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Mahouoka isn't that bad, *if you scroll past the sibling moments.
> Which means skimming through a buttload of text.*
> .





Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> > Mahouoka isn't that bad
> 
> 
> 
> You have shit taste, we get it.




Reading comprehension: 0

Its not bad, only if you skip that huge portion of the novel.
So its pretty bad as a whole.

Tell me, if I need to simplify this even further for you.


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## willyvereb (Jun 13, 2014)

Well, there's also the problem with, AFAIK, Shiba being pretty close to being a Marty Stu.
Actually, if Kirito is called that then Shiba would actually count for something worse.
He's exremely smart, know-it-all who's almost never wrong and constantly  have people being shocked by him doing what universally should be  impossible.
Even if he has a kinda legit excuse Shiba also lacks an actual  personality and whatever faults he was described to have are actually  anything but that.
He's the almighty janior of every almighty janitors.
Miyuki is bad in a different sense. She's a bland stereotype with her  other defining characteristics being her sick incestous feelings (which  is actually part of her bland stereotype) and people occasionally  fawning over her beuty, elegance or her magic ability.
As for the incestous stuff, at least both the author and his  "self-insert" Tatsuya acknowledges that Miyuki is sick in the head and  Tatsuya hopes she'll grow out of it with time.
But then why the hell do it?

To me it looks like the author was way inexperienced in actual writing.
His magic concept and mostly his worldbuilding is nice but everything else is an issue.

Anyways, since Boomy is no longer here I post Shiba's old OBD Wiki profile:
[Reserved for the next post because Boomy wrote an entire novel about him there]


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Mahouoka isn't that bad, if you scroll past the sibling moments.
> Which means skimming through a buttload of text.
> Why the author bothered to put so much of that crap in there is beyond me, considering he put so much effort in his world building and the magic system.
> 
> ...



The writer puts it in because hes thirsty as fuck


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## willyvereb (Jun 13, 2014)

Pictured: Boomy's Wet Dream Part 1 said:
			
		

> Your ass is going to be deleted, resistance is futile.
> 
> *Name:* Tatsuya Shiba, Mr. Silver, Ooguro Ryuuya, Obsidian Demon, Mahesvara
> *Origin:* Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei
> ...


Damn, Boomy.
Just damn.


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## willyvereb (Jun 13, 2014)

Pictured: Boomy's Wet Dream Part 2 said:
			
		

> Notable Attacks/Techniques:
> 
> - _Decomposition_: Also called _Demon Right_.   It’s an innate magic of Tatsuya. It’s a magic of the highest   difficulity that directly interferes with target informational body   (eidos) by destroying it (basically reality warping). Tatsuya can erase   nearly anything as he can see all eidos, he can erase both, organic and   inorganic matter, magic, gases, signals, intangibles beings and much   more (he translates things into signals and then rewrites or erases the   base design). Since he can read structure of each object, theoretically   there is nothing he can’t erase. It has no casting time so he can use  it  instantly, he showed to destroy 36 targets at the same time (with   limiter, unknown if he used Loop Cast at that time). It proved to be   unavoidable. After targeting Tatsuya can break someone apart or entirely   return them to basic components (atomization), can break individual   molecular bounds or change things into psions. It’s so powerful that it   was compared to time warp. When used on magic it returns it to basic   particles (psions) that way he can destroy any spell used on him (or   selectively choose which part he want to erase - like deleting hypnotic   part of a certain spell leaving only harmless light). Tatsuya showed   great control of it as he can use that as a lasers and electrically   charged particles – with diameter of a needle, he usually punctures   someone limbs with that, it has the same characterstics as his usual   Decomposition. With combination of Elemental Sight he can attack   internally (killed a parasite inside someone head without harming a   host). Can use his hand (or entire body since he once decomposed sweat   on his body) as a origin for Decomposition to create a “blade” that can   cut through anything or just use it as a AoE barrier to disintegrate   anything it comes contact with.
> 
> ...


Dammit Boomy.


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## willyvereb (Jun 13, 2014)

Pictured: Boomy's Wet Dream Part 3 said:
			
		

> - *Elemental Sight:* Also called _*Eyes of the Spirits*_   is a Sensory/Perception magic that allows Tatsuya to connect to the   Information Dimension. He can then specify the Eidos of their   surroundings individually, regardless of distance. Users can analyze the   Eidos of targets, allowing for precision aiming at long distances. In   short, The "Eyes of the Spirits" ? "Elemental Sight" refers to  Tatsuya's  ability to identify the "landscape (color)" of the  information  dimension. Each of the Four Major Systems and Eight Major  Types of magic  projects Magic Sequences onto the Eidos through the  information  dimension. Thus, Magicians who wield modern magic have the  ability to  link to the information dimension. By connecting to the  information  dimension and verifying its "existence" ? Tatsuya's senses  could be said  to expand the field. And this "expansion" has dire  consequences.  Anything with a physical body in this world has their  Eidos imprinted in  the information dimension. Also, this isn't done  through the five  senses, or as if he could "see through" this expanded  information  dimension and the subsystem's signals to pull out the  targets he needed.  Rather, he is able to identify each and every Eidos  and target them  separately. In other words, no one can escape from his  Elemental Sight.  Also, by using Elemental Sight, users have a 360˚  field of "vision,"  regardless of physical obstacles, making it  excellent for protection. It  also allows him to see the 'past' of any  magic- what magic had been  used and the nature of the magic. By  analyzing the Eidos, he can see how  it was affected by any magics.
> 
> - *Flash Cast:* Is a Single Systematic magic. It  comes from  practically brainwashing the brain into carving the images  of the  Activation Sequences into memory, then directly recalling the   Activation Sequence from memory without the aid of a CAD. This ability   completely bypasses the need for the CAD to spread and read the   Activation Sequences. In Tatsuya's case the calculation area  in his  consciousness has taken this to the next level. By being able to   construct Magic Sequences from memory, he also avoids the time needed   to construct Magic Sequences in real time. This way, he has absolutely   replaced the deficit in processing speed. However, since he is bad at   magic, he is limited to using it with only five processes (for a A-rank   magician handling 10 processes is childs play).
> 
> ...


And that's it.
I actually abridged a few parts about this but it still needed three OBD post to cover the whole profile.
Seriously...


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

Jesus fucking christ

Write an actual novel if youve got that kind of time and,attention span, sheesh


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

So hes basically Kazumas opposite in every way

He may just kill him on principle alone. Huh. Also without equipment the Wish Fulfillment Device gets fucking sniped


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## lokoxDZz (Jun 13, 2014)

Jesus boomy how much time you spend doing that?


He still loses to Kazuma :hestonlaugh


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jun 13, 2014)

Mahouka is only marginally more coherent than ToAru

But is manfactured ass as a novel


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jun 13, 2014)

Read a single page of Fate/Zero or Fate/Apocrypha if you want real writing.


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## lokoxDZz (Jun 13, 2014)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> Read a single page of Fate/Zero or Fate/Apocrypha if you want real writing.



I didn't know Apocrypha had a translation


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## Regicide (Jun 13, 2014)

Is that profile actually so long that it exceeds the character limit three times over?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jun 13, 2014)

lokoxDZz said:


> I didn't know Apocrypha had a translation


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

Theres a thread in BL. Its updated pretty irregularly, but its still really good

Also read kaze no stigma, ^ (use bro)


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## lokoxDZz (Jun 13, 2014)

Must read it


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

> When used on magic it returns it to basic particles (psions) that way he can destroy any spell used on him (or selectively choose which part he want to erase - like deleting hypnotic part of a certain spell leaving only harmless light)



So its literally useless against KnS magic. Good to know.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jun 13, 2014)

Because KnS is magic magic and not magi-tech


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## lokoxDZz (Jun 13, 2014)

Boomy spend so many time in details that its extreme usefull 

So kazuma solos the verse together with the sparkling boy?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jun 13, 2014)

Not like Tatsuya could handle magic and science, like DOOM.


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## willyvereb (Jun 13, 2014)

Regicide said:


> Is that profile actually so long that it exceeds the character limit three times over?


26000+ characers with the extra images, links and unnecessary formatting removed.
Character limit is 11000.
So yeah, it was close to that.


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## lokoxDZz (Jun 13, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> 26000+ characers with the extra images, links and unnecessary formatting removed.
> Character limit is 11000.
> So yeah, it was close to that.



Wasn't all Mahouka profiles +- like that?


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## Darth Niggatron (Jun 13, 2014)

LolBoomy. That profile is just...


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## willyvereb (Jun 13, 2014)

Well, yeah.
Kazuma and Shiba are both strangely similar and like the polar opposites of each other.

Let's see.
Both Kazuma and Shiba are overpowered characters in their verse and practically the strongest mage in the whole setting.
Both characters use their superior magic knowledge and combat pragmatism to dominate in fights.
Both Kazuma and Shiba are quite notorious in their verse and tend to go on serious kickass mode when threatened.
Both characters have a somewhat considerable list of potential love interests. 
(You could call this 'harem')
Both Kazuma and Yagami has a family relative as their main love interest
Said love interest also behaves quite violently with the main character.

There are many more but I have a vague feeling that Kazuma had to be part of the Shiba's inspiration to the author.

Now the differences:

First, the nature of their magic. KnS magic is about gathering spirits and willpower basically allowing any random shit to happen if you also couple it with magic skill.
Mahouka magic is about various mechanics and manipulating the physics via this magic.
Kazuma is overpowered but there's always an enemy to give trouble to him. He has limits and canno allow himself to mess up. Shiba is practically a super being that needs limiters to prevent him to just steamroll everything in his path.
Kazuma is cocky as hell an trolls much of the KnS cast. Shiba is usually meek and try to be nice with everyone but his enemies.
Kazuma is selfish and has lot of anger issues but he's slowly changing.
Shiba is almost completely devoid of emotions.
Kazuma is a player who knows how to treat women.
Shiba is seemingly obvious to any romantic advances and doesn't want a relationship at all.
Kazuma and Ayano are second cousins plus Kazuma only saw her once before he returned to Japan. It's been played around with for a while but Shiba and Miyuki are definitely siblings.
Kazuma also riles up Ayano for shits and giggles while Shiba dreads her sister and try to not give a reason to anger her.

So yeah.
To sum it up, if you look at them for far distance they're both are the same kind of character.
Talk dark and handsome MC with incredible powers and part of an influential magic family they have sour relationship with.

But Kazuma has a pretty awesome character with numerous sides to his personality.
He practically makes the entire novel the most enjoyable.
Meanwhile Shiba is like a blank slate with god knows how many diverse talents but no personality to make the reader attached.
Shiba's relationships are like a bad rom-com or practically a classic harem cliche.
Kazuma's relationships are more subdued and he's more than just a bland object of affection in them.
Shiba's whole trick is based on painstakingly detailed BS mechanisms and through overanalysis of his opponents.
Kazuma makes shit happen just because it's magic and he's THAT good in it.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jun 13, 2014)

Also blowing the budget on magic-tech info dumps which look like some FF FMV shit.


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

Sounds like Campione 

So Kazuma gets dropped into the verse, does Mahouka do better or worse than the shota raping furries?


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## willyvereb (Jun 13, 2014)

Dunno.
Powerwise, the shota-raping freaks apaprently had some better showings.
Although it depends on how you'll quantify some of Tatsuya's decompositon feats which Boomy was talking about non-stop.
IIRC, he once decomposed an enire ciy with his power.
He also used the mass-energy of a raindrop to make a nuke with 25 megatons of power or someshit.

As for hax and such wise, Mahouka verse seems to be more sophisticated on such things.
But well, Kazuma is way too versed to deal with such issues.
As for Tatsuya canceling Kazuma's magic, it's rather questionable.
Tatsuya needs to understand the spell he's up against.
And I doubt he'd make sense to such BS like wind pressure being denser than black holes and cutting through time-space.
Exorcism also seems to be a good way to bypass Tasuya's eidolon-based regen.


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## lokoxDZz (Jun 13, 2014)

Tatsuya don't use psion and "understand" them to cancel other people magic? Theres no such thing for kazuma he just does shit and thats all i don't think Tatsuya can read a baseless magic or nearly understand it to cancel it

I don't see how Tatsuya would understand Kazuma magic to stop it, he used wind to open dimension, cut through space and time and all bullshit you all know, for Tatsuya that relies in "mag-tech" he cannot comprehend such based skills from Kazuma.

So i guess its not  really questionable at all, Tatsuya has no means to understand Kazuma magic and he cannot cancel it.


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

He can understand it cutting him to ribbons then grinding those ribbons into nothingness, though


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 13, 2014)

Just how much time did Boomy spend on writing those profiles?

And yes anything involving his sister is a bitch to read about.
And the fact, that he is more or less compelled to obey her orders, really worries me with the authors i*c*st obsession.


P.S 
Is Kaze no stigma worth reading, despite the authors death and no ending?
I watched the anime and read his profiles, but kept away from the novel, since I didn't want to suffer from a huge cliffhanger.


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

Sickly in the head imouto tier writing


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## willyvereb (Jun 13, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> P.S
> Is Kaze no stigma worth reading, despite the authors death and no ending?
> I watched the anime and read his profiles, but kept away from the novel, since I didn't want to suffer from a huge cliffhanger.


The novels almost end at the same point as the anime left it.
There's an extra story arc with Volume 6 which the author actually wrote when he already spent years in the sickbed but was hopeful he'd recover.
Aside from that there are the side stories but those aren't translated by the group.
Still, a number of things are considerably different to the anime.
The boring fight with the giant demonic turtle for example is about 300% more intense because there the turtle was actually anything but a stationary target.
Many of its abilities were based on Zeno's paradoxes so it did a number of unexpected shit during combat.

Also Ayano isn't quite a tsundere.
She's more like a violent psychopath who regularly sends guys who annoy her into the hospital.
It was strongly implied that she only gets away with shit because of her family's influence and because literally no one is willing to mess with her.


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> Also Ayano isn't quite a tsundere.
> She's more like a violent psychopath who regularly sends guys who annoy her into the hospital.
> It was strongly implied that she only gets away with shit because of her family's influence and because literally no one is willing to mess with her.



so kawaii uguu :33


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jun 13, 2014)

The only sophistication Kazuma needs is knowing if the other guy is breathing.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 13, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> The novels almost end at the same point as the anime left it.
> There's an extra story arc with Volume 6 which the author actually wrote when he already spent years in the sickbed but was hopeful he'd recover.
> Aside from that there are the side stories but those aren't translated by the group.
> Still, a number of things are considerably different to the anime.
> ...




Thanks.
I will read it in that case.


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## willyvereb (Jun 13, 2014)

Well, that'd be probably useless.
Shiba is practically like a magical construct that restores itself from the memories of the soul in the instant he suffers any damage.
Basically it doesn't mean regeneration but erasing the fact Shiba was even damaged to begin with.

Pulling a full-on exorcism is the only move Kazuma can bet on here.


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> The only sophistication Kazuma needs is knowing if the other guy is breathing.



did he get paid?


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> Well, that'd be probably useless.
> Shiba is practically like a magical construct that restores itself from the memories of the soul in the instant he suffers any damage.
> Basically it doesn't mean regeneration but erasing the fact Shiba was even damaged to begin with.
> 
> Pulling a full-on exorcism is the only move Kazuma can bet on here.


So its that time reversal crap Dead Apostles use, huh?

Guess he can crank out the Mystic Eyes of the Wind King in order to make it stick.


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## Merlight (Jun 13, 2014)

> Thanks.
> I will read it in that case.



If it means much, the cliffhanger isn't THAT bad. You'll see what I mean. It was worth reading for me.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 13, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> Exorcism also seems to be a good way to bypass Tasuya's eidolon-based regen.



He is not really regenerating.
It's more like restoring his body before he took damage.


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## lokoxDZz (Jun 13, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> He is not really regenerating.
> It's more like restoring his body before he took damage.



You mean like he does a backup of himself before taking the damage and when the damage is inflicted the backup comes up to regenerate everything damaged perfectly?


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 13, 2014)

lokoxDZz said:


> You mean like he does a backup of himself before taking the damage and when the damage is inflicted the backup comes up to regenerate everything damaged perfectly?



Yes, something like that.


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## Iwandesu (Jun 13, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Yes, something like that.


Can he recreate himself in ftl speeds? How many times can he do it?  
Do hacking, space manipulation and soulfuck abilities work against it? (Kazuma doesn't have all of it, just out curiosity)


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

Brute force exorcism will suffice


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

Honestly, Kazuma would win the fight ten times out of ten, its just a matter of keeping the fucker down, which winds of purification would handle nicely


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 13, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Can he recreate himself in ftl speeds? How many times can he do it?
> Do hacking, space manipulation and soulfuck abilities work against it? (Kazuma doesn't have all of it, just out curiosity)




*Spoiler*: __ 






> [Commence Retroactive Eidos Tracking]
> Tatsuya's expression did not change.
> [......Confirm Restoration Point]
> The time required for this magic was overly minuscule.
> ...





Tatsuya's self restoration is much better in the regards that it automatically restores his body if an abnormality occurs.
Though, tatsuya could stop the activation.


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

Fantastic way to show you dont know the answer, lolzenath


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 13, 2014)

TehChron said:


> Fantastic way to show you dont know the answer, lolzenath



I thought it's better to just show how it works.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 13, 2014)

To answer his question anyway,
Soul fuck and the like, probably won't work since tatsuya's self restoration seems to be independent to his.
Space manipulation? It depends on the usage.
Though, he could just use area of effect decomposition to neutralize it. (Iirc, there's some space fuckery inverse, might have to read it again.)


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## Nep Heart (Jun 13, 2014)

Seeing that profile again for Tatsuya made me remember how pretentious Boomy can be at times (especially with the way he promotes what he likes)... almost glad he's dead after seeing that novel of a profile.


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

yes use decomposition which relies on that shit that has literally nothing to do with KnS magic

or soul fuckery to exorcise the very spirits which give him the regeneration to begin with

totally impossible


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 13, 2014)

TehChron said:


> yes use decomposition which relies on that shit that has literally nothing to do with KnS magic


Idkhow that matters considering equivalence rule.(which is there to avoid shit like this in the first place)
Nevermind that, every thing in mahouka verse has eidos, which he is decomposing.



> or soul fuckery to exorcise the very spirits which give him the regeneration to begin with
> 
> totally impossible


Idk how you could do that considering that we aren't even sure if it is an entity that lets him restore himself.


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## Nep Heart (Jun 13, 2014)

Just going to point out that Tatsuya seems to need 0.2 seconds to analyze all inflicted damage and harm before he can initiate the actual technique, which is a longass time to be done reliably when his opponent is dozens of times FTL.

 ... Just Saiyan.


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## TehChron (Jun 13, 2014)

Not sure how he can decompose an attack into it's individual Psions or whatever when the attack itself is literally just really really strong wind pressure molded through Willpower and lolmagic

Because equivalence doesnt work that way, lolzenith 



> Idk how you could do that considering that we aren't even sure if it is an entity that lets him restore himself.



so what you're saying...

is that it's an NLF because we don't know it's upper limits? 

What's the most damage he's recovered from, then? Because Kazuma is fully capable of grinding an opponent with high speed regeneration and lightspeed reactions into literally nothing while in Contractor Mode.


----------



## willyvereb (Jun 14, 2014)

More like, that in the battle against Zenon Kazuma basically defeated somebody who had the same kind of regeneration as Shiba.
Zenon was a mass of demonic energy, a spirit which made its physical body out of bunch of rocks.
Zenon's prefered form of movement was basically to decompose its body to nothingness and then recreate it elsewhere out of pure magic energy.
And of course it could regenerate practically without any limit using the same mechanism.
Kazuma pretty much exorcised the creature while destroying its body on the atomic level by the pressure of his wind.

So yeah, once overwhelmed Shiba, destroying him for good would be a child's play.


----------



## Nep Heart (Jun 14, 2014)

The ridiculous speed advantage Kazuma has and Tatsuya being a serious glass cannon doesn't help his case either since he still needs to be alive to restore himself.


----------



## willyvereb (Jun 14, 2014)

Ampchu said:


> The ridiculous speed advantage Kazuma has and Tatsuya being a serious glass cannon doesn't help his case either since he still needs to be alive to restore himself.


There isn't tha much of a speed gap actually.
Unless you take the lowest assumption for Shiba's speed (barely relativistic, ignoring how he's much faster than those people) and take the highest calc (around 20 or 50 times FTL) for Kazuma.
Also from what I heard it's based some sorts of disembodied abstract of his consciousness (Eidolon) and it works from that.
So he doesn't require his body to "regenerate".
That's why I mentioned Zenon who could do pretty much the same.


----------



## Nep Heart (Jun 14, 2014)

So, could something sufficient mind manipulation or conceptual manipulation work against Tatsuya's disembodied abstract form? He sorta sounds like the idea of the soul in the "fundamental concept of being" type way.

 General question, not applying Kazuma here.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 14, 2014)

TehChron said:


> Not sure how he can decompose an attack into it's individual Psions or whatever when the attack itself is literally just really really strong wind pressure molded through Willpower and lolmagic
> 
> Because equivalence doesnt work that way, lolzenith


Everything in mahouka verse afaik is composed of eidos and shit.
It really doesn't matter if it's just a really strong attack.
Unless obviously it is somehow resistant against being decomposed.




> so what you're saying...
> 
> is that it's an NLF because we don't know it's upper limits?


No, what i'm saying is that, it's most likely not an actual entity which means it cannot be exorcised.



> What's the most damage he's recovered from, then? Because Kazuma is fully capable of grinding an opponent with high speed regeneration and lightspeed reactions into literally nothing while in Contractor Mode.


Again, he is not "regenerating", he is more like loading a backup of himself before he was damaged.
There is a fundamental difference in that.

Note:
I'm not actually saying that tatsuya wins here.
I'm just clarifying his abilities. (Should be obvious, but whatever. )


----------



## Xiammes (Jun 14, 2014)

Oh god, Booms profiles. I remember having to cut that shit out of Izayoi's profile.

Can anyone give me a run down of both characters? Seems like both might be a good match for Kotarou


----------



## TehChron (Jun 14, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Everything in mahouka verse afaik is composed of eidos and shit.
> It really doesn't matter if it's just a really strong attack.
> Unless obviously it is somehow resistant against being decomposed.
> 
> ...


all i see you doing is claim that KnS magic is composed of Psions despite that not being a thing in the slightest

Or that there exists some method to calculate the density of willpower required to make a wind blade that casually cuts through singularities, lolzenith


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 14, 2014)

> all i see you doing is claim that KnS magic is composed of Psions despite that not being a thing in the slightest


Lol.

I mean fuck i don't really pay attention to that psion and eidos shit.
But they are existing through everything.
So unless we are ignoring equivalence here, they would also have it.

Also, there is this.


> Superpowers are magics that do not need additional activation steps beyond thoughts like modern magic and unlike Ancient Magic. However, Superpower users can only use one type of magic, any differences will just be variations of the original. It can be considered a specialization, to a point where the magics can only be used by a few. It can be activated with pure thought regardless of intent or will, unlike modern magic, as unintentionally creating a magic sequence and activating it is impossible for magicians using dozens of types of magics, like most modern magicians. However, unintentional magics from people capable of multiple types of magic indicates a strong phenomena rewriting ability.
> Pyrokinesis and possibly Elemental Sight are considered Superpowers


Seems like generic magic.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 14, 2014)

Also, now that i think about it, KnS's magic being natural phenomena would just make it easier.
Since modern magicians just sends false signals to manipulate and rewrite the eidos in the environment to change the events in the real world and cause phenomena.
They are just triggered in a different way.

And like you've said, wind magic is just super dense wind, and wind in mahouka verse also has eidos and shit.


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## TehChron (Jun 14, 2014)

...

I see that explaining shit to you is a waste of time, Zenith. Literally ignoring the fact that KnS magic is powered entirely by willpower, personal stamina, and whatever other crap that Kazuma has on top of it, is something that has no equivalent in the Mahouka system. And then insisting that a particular power which operates purely on a broken manipulation of in-verse mechanics is capable of manipulating something entirely beyond his knowledge base, especially given that Tatsuya's entire schtict is exploiting the nature of his own verses magic system, is just stupid on your part.

Claiming that "equivalence" covers it simply shows how the term quite literally goes over your head.

Equivalence matters in the sense of "lolmagic resistance" and the ability to recognize "magic" in general.

Highly specific shit like Decomposition? Doesn't qualify for it.

Couple _that_ with your hilarious insistence that Tatsuya's regen is beyond Kazuma's ability to keep down is not only blatant fanwank, it's also downright hypocritical. Especially because exorcising spirits, buttfucking physics, overwhelming regen of a similar type, and other things, are all feats that Kazuma actually has performed within the translated material of his own series.

To put things bluntly?

You not only don't know what you're talking about, you're also relying on bandying about terms you only possess a passing knowledge of, let alone an understanding, and are a two-faced little shit.

Cancerdome indeed. Go back to waiting for Fluttershit to come back and then bail you out with how revoltingly awful he is or something.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (Jun 14, 2014)

What are the limits of Tatsuya's DC atm?


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## TehChron (Jun 14, 2014)

Tatsuya's DC seems to rely on applications of Physics and manipulation of his own series mechanics.

Things which Kazuma casually fucks over within his own series. He would forcibly introduce a vacuum to redirect the foce of a matter-to-energy conversion explosion into a harmless direction. Not to mention that Kazuma is roughly hyped to be as badass in hand to hand as Tatsuya is supposed to be, on top of wind magic being the only subset in KnS that not only enhances sensory abilities, but gives a bit of a boost to augment it's users physical stats as well.

It really doesn't matter if Tatsuya constructs some kind of antimatter cannon to shoot at Kazuma, Kazuma will literally just cut it in half with a wind blade, or even the beam itself. It gives no fucks to physics.


----------



## Darth Niggatron (Jun 14, 2014)

TehChron said:


> ...
> 
> I see that explaining shit to you is a waste of time, Zenith. Literally ignoring the fact that KnS magic is powered entirely by willpower, personal stamina, and whatever other crap that Kazuma has on top of it, is something that has no equivalent in the Mahouka system. And then insisting that a particular power which operates purely on a broken manipulation of in-verse mechanics is capable of manipulating something entirely beyond his knowledge base, especially given that Tatsuya's entire schtict is exploiting the nature of his own verses magic system, is just stupid on your part.
> 
> ...


A third of this post is meaningless drivel.



MusubiKazesaru said:


> What are the limits of Tatsuya's DC atm?


I don't know if we roll with this, but sub-relativistic characters should be town level in dc and dura, at least, by virtue of their speed.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 14, 2014)

TehChron said:


> ...
> 
> I see that explaining shit to you is a waste of time, Zenith. Literally ignoring the fact that KnS magic is powered entirely by willpower, personal stamina, and whatever other crap that Kazuma has on top of it, is something that has no equivalent in the Mahouka system. And then insisting that a particular power which operates purely on a broken manipulation of in-verse mechanics is capable of manipulating something entirely beyond his knowledge base, especially given that Tatsuya's entire schtict is exploiting the nature of his own verses magic system, is just stupid on your part.
> 
> ...


....
His decomposition not only works against magic, it also works against humans, water droplets, metals, bullets, etc.
I don't see how, as you've said, super dense air going to be different. (Since you seem to fucking think that it only works against mahouka verse's magic)
And...


> With Decomposition, he can identify the design of any Eidos or Sequence, then decompose the design. As long as it's an object, he can translate the physical object into signals, and then rewrite or erase the base design at his leisure.





> Couple _that_ with your hilarious insistence that Tatsuya's regen is beyond Kazuma's ability to keep down is not only blatant fanwank, it's also downright hypocritical. Especially because exorcising spirits, buttfucking physics, overwhelming regen of a similar type, and other things, are all feats that Kazuma actually has performed within the translated material of his own series.


Only that He isn't regenerating, you dimwit.
I don't see how it is wank, when all i've done is link how it works, and say that he is not regenerating.
I mean, the fuck is with this reading comprehension?


----------



## TehChron (Jun 14, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> ....
> His decomposition not only works against magic, it also works against humans, water droplets, metals, bullets, etc.





> I see that explaining shit to you is a waste of time, Zenith. Literally ignoring the fact that KnS magic is powered entirely by willpower, personal stamina, and whatever other crap that Kazuma has on top of it, *is something that has no equivalent in the Mahouka system.*






> I don't see how, as you've said, super dense air going to be different. (Since you seem to fucking think that it only works against mahouka verse's magic)


About that...




> And then insisting that a particular power which operates *purely on a broken manipulation of in-verse mechanics* is capable of manipulating *something entirely beyond his knowledge base*, especially given that Tatsuya's entire schtict is exploiting the nature of his own verses magic system, is just stupid on your part.





> And...



So you're saying that since everything in Mahouka is made up of Eidolons or some shit...

Funny how they dont exist in KnS.



> With Decomposition, he can identify the design of any Eidos or Sequence, then decompose the design. As long as it's an object, he can translate the physical object into signals, and then rewrite or erase the base design at his leisure.



And Kazuma doesn't use Sequences. His Wind Jutsu is created, maintained, and powered entirely by his Willpower. Which is what would need to be analyzed and Decomposed in order for shit to happen.

Even accepting your ludicrous misinterpretation of how Equivalence works, Fuujutsushi's are so far out of his experience that Tatsuya's counters to Mahouka magic users will be utterly useless. Given that, again, they rely on approaches that are only so devastatingly effective due to the way the Mahouka magic system works. In the time that it takes for him to formulate a response or proper defense, Kazuma will have already torn him to ribbons, and will be able to grind him away with Winds of Purification at his leisure.



> Only that He isn't regenerating, you dimwit.
> I don't see how it is wank, when all i've done is link how it works, and say that he is not regenerating.



So he recovers from damage by replacing/regrowing the lost body parts via copying a previous state of being?

Yes, that's regeneration. It appears that term, much like "equivalence", is also beyond your reach.



> I mean, the fuck is with this reading comprehension?



I could say the same, but fortunately I'm not in the habit of asking questions which I already know the answer to.


----------



## Demonspeed (Jun 14, 2014)

Can someone tell me what can Kazuma do? He just controls air? And their differences in speed and durability?


----------



## TehChron (Jun 14, 2014)

Demonspeed said:


> Can someone tell me what can Kazuma do? He just controls air? And their differences in speed and durability?



Kazuma controls wind to blitz light and cut space, while also performing exorcisms by hitting shit really really hard

With wind

As a basic overview


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 14, 2014)

> So he recovers from damage by replacing/regrowing the lost body parts via copying a previous state of being?
> Yes, that's regeneration. It appears that term, much like "equivalence", is also beyond your reach.


No, it is restoration.
Main difference in the two, is that the reality of damage is erased.
Blood stains on your cloth won't fucking disappear because you regenerated a leg.



> Funny how they dont exist in KnS.


Yes, and unless equivalence is a thing, then wind, shit and people in kns would also be composed of it.


> Anything with a physical body in this world has their Eidos imprinted in the information dimension


Unless obviously my time here in the obd is a lie, and people without something that can be equated to chakra for example can't be genjutsu'd and the like.
E.g. People like fucking luffy.



> And Kazuma doesn't use Sequences. His Wind Jutsu is created, maintained, and powered entirely by his Willpower. Which is what would need to be analyzed and Decomposed in order for shit to happen.


Your point?
Superpower users in mahouka also don't use sequences.
In fact, the paranormal parasites uses magic just by thinking.


> They possess psychic ability; able to produce magic just by thinking it but their lack of imagination makes their attacks very simplistic.


And again, i fail to see how that is relevant since it is still just super dense air.
He'd probably just see it as super dense air in his elemental sight.


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## Demonspeed (Jun 14, 2014)

Tatsuya should not be able to survive an attack if his brain is destroyed, soulfuckery is also possible since Regrowth triggers when his combat ability drops but it must be able to disable him instantly. He should be able to destroy and counter Kazuma's winds though.

Even though modern magic is mainstream and works by event modification, generic powers like pyrokinesis, psychokinesis exist. They are just not common, magics can also directly interfere with the body. He doesn't need to understand the magic but to see it, he confirms his target first with ES which is constantly active albeit less powerful than when he enters in Link space then decomposes or counter it, it just needs to have a form.  In vol 11 he was even able to decompose a light beam but it would have destroyed half of his body. 

With one shot of Decomposition on the Loop Cast system, his Decomposition can destroy 3 times simultaneously with no time lag. Only one protection is not enough. He has also access to soulfuckery with Far Strike.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 14, 2014)

> *Regrowth triggers when his combat ability drops*


Actually, it triggers when an abnormality/injury occurs.
Drop of Combat ability is just a byproduct of it.


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## Demonspeed (Jun 14, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Actually, it triggers when an abnormality/injury occurs.
> Drop of Combat ability is just a byproduct of it.



As long as this abnormality doesn't reduce his combat ability it won't trigger.


*Spoiler*: __ 



His physical eye was watching the screen while his mental eye was glued on the information dimension.

His work continued for roughly an hour.

Suddenly, he felt an uncomfortable feeling within his body.

Drowsiness suddenly sneaked up on him.

(Did I overdo it......)

Wishing to take a break outside, Tatsuya moved to get up, but—

His limbs were heavy.

Like his body hadn't woken up yet.

Highly trained individuals could use their will to control the physical body's desire for sleep.

Pulling several all-nighters in a row was another story, but he didn't recall that he led such an unprincipled lifestyle.

A danger signal flashed across his brain.

His physical body plainly was behaving abnormally.


[Physical functioning dropping abnormally]


Sleepiness itself is not something that poses an obstruction to combat ability.

However, when unable to awaken based on one's own consciousness, then this drowsiness became an impairment to combat ability.


[Personal Restoration: Semi-Automatic Activation]


His Personal Restoration ability recognized the necessity.


[Magic Sequence: Loaded]

[Core/Eidos Data: Retrieving from Backup]


Begin activation.


[Restoration: Commence...... Complete]


In an instant, his body returned to "a state before drowsiness came upon him".

But the primary problem still hadn't been addressed.

The only thing that he had consumed since leaving the house for the lab was the coffee from the cafe and the cup Pixie prepared for him. Neither of the two items contained hazardous materials. That was because he already used his "eye" to verify this before partaking in them. Thus, the only direction where chemicals could come from was—

(Gas!)

The circulation system must have been tampered with. 




Mind control should affect him depending on how it works then.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 14, 2014)

Demonspeed said:


> As long as this abnormality doesn't reduce his combat ability it won't trigger.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


When you're being soulfucked, your combat ability is technically zero.
Also, i assume that he must be pretty resistant against mind control considering that the yotsuba specializes on mind fuckery.
Plus, he must have trained against it in his hellish training.
Or at least, was trained against to.


----------



## TehChron (Jun 14, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> No, it is restoration.
> Main difference in the two, is that the reality of damage is erased.
> Blood stains on your cloth won't fucking disappear because you regenerated a leg.


 Not for some forms of regeneration, for others it does.

Dead Apostles in Nasuverse, for example, do something very similar with their Time Reversal based regen. So it's still regeneration.




> Yes, and unless equivalence is a thing, then wind, shit and people in kns would also be composed of it.



Quit being fucking stupid.



> Unless obviously my time here in the obd is a lie, and people without something that can be equated to chakra for example can't be genjutsu'd and the like.
> E.g. People like fucking luffy.





> Claiming that "equivalence" covers it simply shows how the term quite literally goes over your head.
> 
> Equivalence matters in the sense of "lolmagic resistance" and the ability to recognize "magic" in general.
> 
> Highly specific shit like Decomposition? Doesn't qualify for it.



Sorry to tell you this, chuckles, but I guess you really _have_ been living a lie.

Must be a consequence of spending so much time in the Cancerdome.


> Your point?
> Superpower users in mahouka also don't use sequences.
> In fact, the paranormal parasites uses magic just by thinking.



Are their attacks composed of Willpower that arbitrarily fucks physics just because?

Not really the same thing.



> And again, i fail to see how that is relevant since it is still just super dense air.
> He'd probably just see it as super dense air in his elemental sight.



Because Willpower is a thing, and it is of such a magnitude that it literally does impossible shit, such as cutting light or cleaving through spacial distortions.

Unless Tatsuya's got an algorithm for Kazuma's willpower permanently engraved into his brain like everything else, he isn't decomposing shit in time to prevent being shredded and then ground down with Winds of Purification.

His durability isn't even remotely enough with his go to countermeasures being ineffective.


----------



## Demonspeed (Jun 14, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> When you're being soulfucked, your combat ability is technically zero.
> Also, i assume that he must be pretty resistant against mind control considering that the yotsuba specializes on mind fuckery.
> Plus, he must have trained against it in his hellish training.
> Or at least, was trained against to.



That's why I said mind control. Soulfuckery won't kill him unless its effects are instant thus faster than Regrowth like Miyuki's Cocytus but mind control is just manipulation of his mind, depending on how fast the mind control technique works at least.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 14, 2014)

> Sorry to tell you this, chuckles, but I guess you really have been living a lie.
> 
> Must be a consequence of spending so much time in the Cancerdome.


Is luffy completely resistant to genjutsu, Y/N?



> Are their attacks composed of Willpower that arbitrarily fucks physics just because?


Like what i and demonspeed posted earlier, there are superpower users who can use generic shit like pyrokinesis, etc.
They're just rare, so yes is the answer.


----------



## Demonspeed (Jun 14, 2014)

TehChron said:


> Because Willpower is a thing, and it is of such a magnitude that it literally does impossible shit, such as cutting light or cleaving through spacial distortions.
> 
> Unless Tatsuya's got an algorithm for Kazuma's willpower permanently engraved into his brain like everything else, he isn't decomposing shit in time to prevent being shredded and then ground down with Winds of Purification.
> 
> His durability isn't even remotely enough with his go to countermeasures being ineffective.



He only needs to read the activation sequences  for Gram Dispersion. Gram Demolition is just a canonball acting like an antimagic explosion upon contact. Still, there is a limit depending on the power, in vol 4 Gram Demolition could destroy 14 of 16's Masaki's air bullets. He is one of the strongest magician of the story too but the destructive power of his bullets is unknown. 

Idk all about what Kazuma can do but Tatsuya would lose more time than not IMO.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 14, 2014)

Well, tatsuya could just use his decomposition as an armor of sorts and it would start to decompose shit it came into contact.
Iirc, he used it in the war to coat his arms and use it like a sword.


----------



## willyvereb (Jun 14, 2014)

Alright, this debate went in circles for a number of pages.
If I were a mod I may as well have locked this but whatever.
Maybe it's better that I don't.
Because I have the strong feeling you both just keep talking without really listening to the other.

Yes, magic is magic.
Equivalence exist. Psions are the equivalent of mana or whatever other supernatural power in fictions.
They have some special features compared to other sources but that's it.
Just because Kazuma's magic is the combination of spirits, life energy and his willpower it doesn't mean it doesn't consitute as "magic" like the other combatant uses.

On the other hand zenithX should really try to use his brain.
Alright, there are inherent magic abilities called superpowers in Mahouka.
Elemental control included.
But can a pyrokinesist in Mahouka burn through gravity and space-time with her anger?
Can they release wind blades denser than singularities?
Can they even selectively choose what to burn with their power or which physical law of their element they even respect (FTL wind, fire burning without oxygen)
So yeah, accounting for these isn't even remotely the same as countering somebody who controls wind or fire.
Although he may be still able to counter some effects if Tatsuya is capable of dealing with spatial manipulation (space-time cuts in particular), spiritual attacks and such.
In short the extra effects these wind attacks can produce.
Still, more han likely Tatsuya's first reaction would be a huge "WTF" when he realizes what Kazuma is doing with wind.
Also altering phenomena is fine but Tatsuya needs to compete with Kazuma's control against that so it'd more or less turn into a match of power.

Also it seems Eidolon is closely related to whatever is magic energy in Mahouka.
Well, that only makes things easier for Kazuma.
He and other mages regularly destroy Youma by erasing their ki signature.
Kazuma's winds would destroy the Eidolons that make up Tatsuya's data thus erasing him while also reducing him to atoms.

Tl;dr: Shiba Tatsuya is get wreckt.


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## Demonspeed (Jun 14, 2014)

Eidos is not an energy. It's an information body,  in other words as long as something exists in the material words, its Eidos are located in the Information Dimension. Magicians are called magicians because they have access to the Information Dimension, making them able to see it, altering it and thus altering the reality in the material world.

The closest thing comparable to energy in Mahouka is Psion , which are particles manifesting via the thoughts of a magician depending on how he wants to use a magic. The quantity varies depending on the individuals but it doesn't impact on the battles very much unless you are fighting without a CAD, since they limit their consumption for a spell.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 14, 2014)

Regarding his regeneration:

Its more of the Kumagawa variety, just limited to his best state within 24 hours.

So an opponent that can keep an attack going longer than that time period, could fuck him over.

Regarding the magic:

Think of the eidos as a blueprint and the psions as magical tools for constructing something.
Everything that exists, has a blueprint stored in the eidos dimension. 
Magicians use their psions(mana) to construct that blueprint in our dimension, resulting in an effect (fireball, etc.).
Tatsuya can change the blueprint, causing a malfunction.


And to avoid misunderstandings, I reiterate:
Kazuma wins this, imo.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 14, 2014)

> Alright, there are inherent magic abilities called superpowers in Mahouka.
> Elemental control included.
> But can a pyrokinesist in Mahouka burn through gravity and space-time with her anger?
> Can they release wind blades denser than singularities?
> ...


I don't know if you've actually read the posts made here.
But I don't know why you need to do this long ass post, considering that it only means that kazuma for that matter has better grasp, and strength pertaining on his usage of wind magic. Which is kind of obvious, and never really contested.

Also, that snide comment you made made you sound like a douche, intentional or not. Just wanted to point that out.

And i dare you to quote a comment i made in this thread that feels like i 'm not using my brain.


----------



## TehChron (Jun 14, 2014)

Comparing the use of a highly technical technique which requires an understanding of a spells structure in order to completely disassemble it to...

Luffy being affected by Genjutsu

Yes, you do in fact sound like an idiot


----------



## TehChron (Jun 14, 2014)

Also the fact that all you're taking from Willys post is "Kazumas wind magic too stronk" also implies that you're mentally deficient, yes


----------



## TehChron (Jun 14, 2014)

I mean, its one thing to erect strawmans, its quite another to go off on random tangents and believe them to be some sort of crushing, absolute rebuttal

The formers frowned upon but believable, and the latter is a whole kind of special unto itself


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 14, 2014)

TehChron said:


> Comparing the use of a highly technical technique which requires an understanding of a spells structure in order to completely disassemble it to...
> 
> Luffy being affected by Genjutsu
> 
> Yes, you do in fact sound like an idiot



No, you dumbfuck.
You are arguing that because eidos and shit isn't exisiting in kns then it won't equivalence or not.
That's why i asked if luffy can be genjutsu'd or not because there is nothing in op that can be equated to chakra.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 14, 2014)

I swear to god, teh.
You are considerably grating atm.


> all i see you doing is claim that KnS magic is composed of Psions despite that not being a thing in the slightest


----------



## TehChron (Jun 14, 2014)

Really?

All i said was that Tatsuya wouldnt be able to Decompose Kazumas Wind Blades right off the bat because there were so many component parts beyond Tatsuyas experience that it would prove fruitless

Kazuma shits on physics, whereas Tatsuya is strongly grounded in it. Ergo, hed have no idea what the fuck is going on up until he gets shredded

This has been what Ive said about equivalence. It isnt a handwave to give Tatsuya an understanding he doesnt possess. Not my fault his fighting style is overly techinical

Youre the one that tried to turn the argument towards being about Luffy

And you have the nerve to act offended


----------



## TehChron (Jun 14, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> I swear to god, teh.
> You are considerably grating atm.



And you cant read?

Because lolmagic isnt the reason Kazumas Wind Blades sodomize physics. Its his willpower

Which i've said time and time again that Tatsuya has no means,to quantify, whereas youve just continued to ask about the chakra control of One Piece characters


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 14, 2014)

> All i said was that Tatsuya wouldnt be able to Decompose Kazumas Wind Blades right off the bat because there were so many component parts beyond Tatsuyas experience that it would prove fruitless


Yes despite shit that is existing with mechanics pretty much the same as kns's.



> This has been what Ive said about equivalence. It isnt a handwave to give Tatsuya an understanding he doesnt possess. Not my fault his fighting style is overly techinical


Despite how clear on what you are saying here.
Dat backpedaling.


> all i see you doing is claim that KnS magic is composed of Psions despite that not being a thing in the slightest


Pretty much all that needs to be said.



> And you have the nerve to act offended


Obviously, considering how you're the first one to flame me.
Why in the fuck should i be not?

Fuck, i rest my case.
Need to sleep.


----------



## TehChron (Jun 14, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Yes despite shit that is existing with mechanics pretty much the same as kns's.


 dat reading comprehension tho

> Relies on gathering spirits and willpower above all

> Information Plane, Eiodolons, Physics abuse

Totally the same thing



> Despite how clear on what you are saying here.
> Dat backpedaling.
> 
> Pretty much all that needs to be said.



I could make a joke about how forced that argument is, but I honestly dont think i can make you look more desperate to save face than you already do.

A failure on my part, I guess 



> Obviously, considering how you're the first one to flame me.
> Why in the fuck should i be not?
> 
> Fuck, i rest my case.
> Need to sleep.



The hell are you talking about, acting like a victim. Think of how much of my valuable time ive wasted replying to your asinine posts

Anyway, if you dont want to be called dumb, then the obvious solution is to not make stupid posts, you know? Simple


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## Countless Insect (Jun 14, 2014)

Pathetic. Somebody lock this thread already.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 14, 2014)

In a hopeless attempt to stop this circling argument about the magic systems, I offer my view on this subject.

Assuming equivalency gives KnS magic an informational dimension. 

Kazuma's magic would appear to Tatsuya as a structure, built from things he is familiar with and an x variable for willpower/emotions. 
Spirits exist in Mahouka, so he knows them.
Tatsuya would be helpless against Kazuya's magic, thanks to the unknown variable.
Now with enough time, his analyzing abilities would enable him to solve the equation and gain an understanding for the willpower component.

However Kazuma possesses the ability to bypass Tatsuya's damage negation, so he would kill him long before that point..


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## lokoxDZz (Jun 14, 2014)

Someone that has acess with the old profile with post Miyuki's Cocytus, boomy made it and since Tatsuya actually would be fucked up against that atack it would better to see what is his limit and things like that.


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## Demonspeed (Jun 14, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> In a hopeless attempt to stop this circling argument about the magic systems, I offer my view on this subject.
> 
> Assuming equivalency gives KnS magic an informational dimension.
> 
> ...



To see the magic, not understand it,  would only be necessary if he wants to use Gram Dispersion. Gram Demolition works even if he doesn't see it, there are no variables for Kazuma's magic so even Gram Dispersion(Decomposition of a spell) is possible, understanding it is not necessary, he needs to see it, that's all. 

Kazuma can kill him as long as he can create an attack powerful enough to resist Gram Dispersion and Demolition and destroys his brain. But Tatsuya's Trident can Decompose him three times with one attack, Far Strike can soulfuck Kazuma, it's even more effective on magicians who rely heavily on their power rather than their physical body.



lokoxDZz said:


> Someone that has acess with the old profile with post Miyuki's Cocytus, boomy made it and since Tatsuya actually would be fucked up against that atack it would better to see what is his limit and things like that.



From the wiki

Cocytus is an Outer-Systematic Mental Interference Magic unique to Miyuki. Unlike her other Freezing Magics, this doesn't have a noticeable effect on the surface, such as frost or cold temperature. Rather than the targets physical bodies freezing, it is their consciousness that is frozen.
“ 	The bodies bound by their frozen minds could not even die. They could only collapse like a row of statues, forever captured in the postures before the frost came. 	”


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## TehChron (Jun 14, 2014)

Why wouldnt it be enough? Its not like Kazumas wind blades ignore hax or anything

Rather it just bulldozes right through them. Unless that blind Gram Dispersion can also punch through a spacial distortion, its accomplishing all of jack and shit to stop Kazuma from spamming wind blades

Besides, I wouldnt bet on soul fuckery being relevant. Not only is Kazuma incredibly fit, but in Contractor Mode his souls literally bonded to the Wind King. Probably above Tatsuyas paygrade should he live long enough to attempt it


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## Demonspeed (Jun 14, 2014)

TehChron said:


> Why wouldnt it be enough? Its not like Kazumas wind blades ignore hax or anything



I don't know if it will be enough because I don't know about him, what is his destructive capacity? His counter magics would be powerless against a town level attack for example.



> Rather it just bulldozes right through them. Unless that blind Gram Dispersion can also punch through a spacial distortion, its accomplishing all of jack and shit to stop Kazuma from spamming wind blades



It can destroy a spatial distortion with Gram Dispersion at least since it has a definite form, the effect is not the problem. All depends on the power of his attack. With Mist Dispersion on Loop Cast however, he can Decompose the wind and directly decompose Kazuma himself without time lag so his only option would be to dodge it.



> Besides, I wouldnt bet on soul fuckery being relevant. Not only is Kazuma incredibly fit, but in Contractor Mode his souls literally bonded to the Wind King. Probably above Tatsuyas paygrade should he live long enough to attempt it



It should affect him but it will knock him out or render him unable to move at best, FS is not a killing technique.


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## TehChron (Jun 14, 2014)

Contractor mode is about country level, base should still be FTL and above town level


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 14, 2014)

> dat reading comprehension tho


Pot, meet kettle.



> > Relies on gathering spirits and willpower above all
> 
> > Information Plane, Eiodolons, Physics abuse





> Like what i and demonspeed posted earlier, there are superpower users who can use generic shit like pyrokinesis, etc.





> Alright, there are inherent magic abilities called superpowers in Mahouka.


Are you actually blind?
And yes, spirit shit also exists in mahouka.



> Think of how much of my valuable time ive wasted replying to your asinine posts


I'm sorry for.... Wasting your time despite here.


> Couple that with your hilarious insistence that Tatsuya's regen is beyond Kazuma's ability to keep down is not only blatant fanwank,


When i haven't even posted anything like that, at all.
You're actually *gasp* reading shit that isn't really there?
Probably should blame your shitty reading comprehension.



> Anyway, if you dont want to be called dumb, then the obvious solution is to not make stupid posts, you know? Simple


Ditto.

Hopefully, my last post.


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## TehChron (Jun 15, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Pot, meet kettle.



Why do you keep throwing out all these terms and phrases as if you know what they actually mean? It's painful to watch.




> Are you actually blind?
> And yes, spirit shit also exists in mahouka.


 Yes because elemental spirits existing = everything else is exactly the same ever

Brilliant reasoning. My compliments.



> I'm sorry for.... Wasting your time despite here.


 You really should be, it's awfully rude of you.



> When i haven't even posted anything like that, at all.
> You're actually *gasp* reading shit that isn't really there?
> Probably should blame your shitty reading comprehension.



Actually, you've continued to insist that somehow he'd be able to continuously regenerate due to the nature of Regrowth, rather than it being overwhelmed completely, thus resulting in Tatsuya's continued survival.

While you've never said outright that "Kazuma can not kill him", you constantly insisted that Tatsuya's Eidolon backup data will restore him regardless of the methods that have been suggested as possible for Kazuma to use.



> Ditto.
> 
> Hopefully, my last post.



Well, the difference here is that you literally are being stupid, hence why what I'm saying is a legitimate criticism, whereas you're just bandying about terms and parroting me in an attempt to soothe your wounded pride.

And I hope so, too. This has gotten old. Perhaps next time you can actually grasp how equivalence works and why Decomposition doesn't automatically get to destroy Dementors because of it?


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jun 15, 2014)

> Actually, you've continued to insist that somehow he'd be able to continuously regenerate due to the nature of Regrowth, rather than it being overwhelmed completely, thus resulting in Tatsuya's continued survival.


Except that, i did not you lying cunt.
All i did was clarify how his regeneration works.


> I'm not actually saying that tatsuya wins here.
> I'm just clarifying his abilities. (Should be obvious, but whatever. )


I mean christ, what the hell is this note for?
Again, not my fault you're seeing shit that is not existing.



> Yes because elemental spirits existing = everything else is exactly the same ever



Despite generic inherent magic like pyrokinesis which is purely done via thinking, and is not using physics like you are so hellbent on claiming?
Uwotm8?



> Perhaps next time you can actually grasp how equivalence works


How funny you still haven't answered my question.



> And I hope so, too. This has gotten old.


At least, something that we could both agree on.


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## Countless Insect (Jun 15, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Blah blah blah.



Jesus Christ little boy, can't let the other guy have the last word in can you?


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