# Stating the obvious about Kaido.



## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

He's the absolute undisputed strongest among living top tiers after this.

Sorry, but no one else is meeting that attack head on with zero hesitation or hint of fear. And he's doing it after running the ultimate gauntlet with basically zero breaks in action.

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## mobidicur (May 5, 2022)

For real, no one is stronger right now. Not even Shanks

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## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

nah

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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> nah


Yah

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## B Rabbit (May 5, 2022)

No top tier has feats compared to Kaidou right now.

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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

If the manga ends with Luffy one punching Akainu and Teach 2 chapters after defeating Kaidou then I will agree with you; otherwise you have to be wrong for the narrative to function.

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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> If the manga ends with Luffy one punching Akainu and Teach 2 chapters after defeating Kaidou then I will agree with you; otherwise you have to be wrong for the narrative to function.


Nope. This isn't Dragonball Z or Naruto. We've known what top tier strength looks like since Marineford, and not every subsequent arc villain is > previous arc villains. Later opponents can challenge and make Luffy struggle in different ways like many opponents in the past have.

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## Strobacaxi (May 5, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> no one else is meeting that attack head on with zero hesitation or hint of fear


lol

There's not a single top tier that would be afraid of that attack. They're just not dumb like Kaido

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## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> lol
> 
> There's not a single top tier that would be afraid of that attack. They're just not dumb like Kaido


this
Not sure why any top-tier in OP would be seriously afraid of any attack


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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> lol
> 
> There's not a single top tier that would be afraid of that attack. They're just not dumb like Kaido


No one else is meeting it head on. If you refuse to meet it head on then that means you fear the effects it may have if you do. "Dumb" or not, Kaido believes in his own strength to the point where the attack doesn't concern him. Foolish? Probably, but my point stands.


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> No one else is meeting it head on.


proof?



Louis-954 said:


> If you refuse to meet it head on then that means you fear the effects it may have. "Dumb" or not, Kaido believes in his own strength to the point where the attack doesn't concern him. Foolish? Probably, but my point stands.


Kaido thinks he can vaporize the hand, not tank the attack
not that it matters

the whole thing is your headcanon

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Nope. This isn't Dragonball Z or Naruto. We've known what top tier strength looks like since Marineford, and not every subsequent arc villain is > previous arc villains. Later opponents can challenge and make Luffy struggle in different ways like many opponents in the past have.


One Piece has by Oda’s own admittance taken heavy inspiration from Dragonball, which makes sense as in Japan it’s the golden standard of what a Shonen Manga should be like that most Mangaka strive for. So anyone argument that starts with this isn’t Dragonball at its basis is something I’m going to immediately dismiss, because while it’s a different manga it’s clearly following in the footsteps of Dragonball like every other Shonen.

And no every arc villain Luffy has actually beaten, has been stronger then the prior on that Luffy has fought in One Piece just like in Dragonball. Anyone who argues otherwise simply doesn’t understand power-scaling/power progression. And also double no on MF establishing the top power of the verse, it for sure did not, as we were specifically told WB was dramatically weaker then his Prime, so MF did the exact opposite and establish that there was a level beyond what was being shown at MF, for anyone who is bothering to listen to what the characters are saying about Roger and Primebeard.

This even carrier into this arc with Kaidou establishing a clear heirarchy among the strongest with his Top 5, and Roger clearly at the Top.

You can believe that unlike what has occurred in One Piece every single time the next two major arc villains Luffy beats are going to stagnate at Kaidou’s level or worse be weaker, under the guise of somehow they will be a threat in some other way then power - unlike any shonen major antagonist ever, because this isn’t Dragonball despite it clearly striving to be just that - but don’t ask me to sign up for that logic.

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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> proof?
> 
> 
> Kaido thinks he can vaporize the hand, *not tank the attack*
> ...


Don't have proof, but I do have common sense. It's how I feel based on what we've seen from other top tiers. Big Mom didn't want to meet Law's attacks head on and this is on another level. Shanks is not a tank or endurance freak, Akainu and Aokiji weren't trying to get hit cleanly by Whitebeard. Etc etc.


He's meeting it* head on*. That's a* tanking feat*. Vaporizing the hand means overcoming the attack.


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## Strobacaxi (May 5, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> No one else is meeting it head on. If you refuse to meet it head on then that means you fear the effects it may have if you do. "Dumb" or not, Kaido believes in his own strength to the point where the attack doesn't concern him. Foolish? Probably, but my point stands.


It's not refusing lol. Luffy isn't challenging Kaido to meet it head on, Kaido is just dumb. Any other actual good fighter would dodge the very absurdly obvious attack and attack Luffy

Akainu watched Whitebeard, the WSM, prepare an attack and went ahead and blocked it, no fear, no hesitation. But he'd be scared of Luffy's attack lol

Also, none of this has anything to do with Kaido being stronger than anyone else. Kaido thinking he's unbeatable doesn't mean he is.


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> He's meeting it* head on*. That's a* tanking feat*. Vaporizing the hand means overcoming the attack.


HE IS MEETING IT HEAD ON .. IN ORDER TO VAPORIZE IT. Literally his own words

there is no tanking feat, he hasnt tanked anything yet


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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> One Piece has by Oda’s own admittance taken heavy inspiration from Dragonball, which makes sense as in Japan it’s the golden standard of what a Shonen Manga should be like that most Mangaka strive for. So anyone argument that starts with this isn’t Dragonball at its basis is something I’m going to immediately dismiss, because while it’s a different manga it’s clearly following in the footsteps of Dragonball like every other Shonen.
> 
> *And no every arc villain Luffy has actually beaten, has been stronger then the prior on that Luffy has fought in One Piece just like in Dragonball.* Anyone who argues otherwise simply doesn’t understand power-scaling/power progression. And also double no on MF establishing the top power of the verse, it for sure did not, as we were specifically told WB was dramatically weaker then his Prime, so MF did the exact opposite and establish that there was a level beyond what was being shown at MF, for anyone who is bothering to listen to what the characters are saying about Roger and Primebeard.
> 
> ...


Enel would *poop* on the faces of Rob Lucci, Moriah or Hody. Moriah was stated to be the weakest among the Shichibukai when Luffy had long defeated Crococile, etc. 

Turrin-kun, believe me, I would never ask you to sign up for logic. I'm well aware that that ship sailed many years ago.

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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Turrin arguing how One Piece works by discussing every manga but One Piece will forever be funny to me.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 26 | Winner 1


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## T.D.A (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> nah

Reactions: Funny 4 | Creative 1


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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> *HE IS MEETING IT HEAD ON* .. IN ORDER TO VAPORIZE IT. Literally his own words
> 
> *then is no tanking feat*, he hasnt tanked anything yet


How is it not a tanking feat to meet your enemies strongest attack *head on* *making no effort to dodge it*? I know you're not the best at interpreting what you see on panel, but this is another level of misinterpretation.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Turrin arguing how One Piece works by discussing every manga but One Piece will forever be funny to me.


He's a treasure. I love @Turrin

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Turrin arguing how One Piece works by discussing every manga but One Piece will forever be funny to me.

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## Sablés (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> nah


You're being really defensive this week

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Enel would *poop* on the faces of Rob Lucci, Moriah or Hody. Moriah was stated to be the weakest among the Shichibukai when Luffy had long defeated Crococile, etc.
> 
> Turrin-kun, believe me, I would never ask you to sign up for logic. I'm well aware that that ship sailed many years ago.


I have had this debate many times. Enel is on a similar speed tier as Luffy in Skypia. Blueno could keep up with a stronger Base Luffy then that one in speed, but got perception blitz’d by G2 Luffy; the same G2 Luffy Lucci could keep up with. Pretty clear Lucci blitz’s Enel based on this,
—-
Also pretty obvious that Moriah is stronger then AB Crocodile given his feats, and he was only weaker then MF crocodile who got a serious amp off screen. Anyone who understands the huge power cliff of Base AB Luffy to G2/3 TB Luffy would understand that quite easily.
—-
The rest is you just going off on your but hurt personal attacks because you don’t like the fact that I’m citing a commonality among the One Piece Manga with every other Dragonball inspired Shonen of Power escalation. Sorry but once again I’m not going to ignore the genre one piece takes place in and what it’s clearly inspired by simply because you can’t fathom Chad Michael Kaidouson could ever be eclipsed In strength. You aren’t the fist fan-boy to make this claim, 100 of bodies lay at the ground before you defeated and crying because they underestimated power escalation and here the case will be no different

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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Sablés said:


> You're being really defensive this week



You should have seen how he acted when Zoro scarred Kaido and Law had a shocked face on. Man was working overtime to do damage control.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> shocked face


its still funny that you unironically used that as a legit argument for months 

even after Laws awakening shitted on Zoros feats


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## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Sablés said:


> You're being really defensive this week


It's been a rough week for him. His idol is getting outclassed at his own game, let alone other games...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Turrin arguing how One Piece works by discussing every manga but One Piece will forever be funny to me.


One Piece doesn’t have an escalating power scale among Villains Luffy beats. Okay whatever you say bruv….


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## Grinningfox (May 5, 2022)

Yea I don’t see the problem with saying this 

If this needs updating later then why not just do it then?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> problem?


 too much trolling


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> too much trolling



just wait till Zoro gets back up bro

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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> *I have had this debate many times. Enel is on a similar speed tier as Luffy in Skypia. Blueno could keep up with a stronger Base Luffy then that one in speed, but got perception blitz’d by G2 Luffy; the same G2 Luffy Lucci could keep up with. Pretty clear Lucci blitz’s Enel based on this,*
> —-
> *Also pretty obvious that Moriah is stronger then AB Crocodile* given his feats, and he was only weaker then MF crocodile who got a serious amp off screen. Anyone who understands the huge power cliff of Base AB Luffy to G2/3 TB Luffy would understand that quite easily.
> —-
> *The rest is you just going off on your but hurt personal attacks* because you don’t like the fact that I’m citing a commonality among the One Piece Manga with every other Dragonball inspired Shonen of Power escalation. Sorry but once again I’m not going to ignore the genre one piece takes place in and what it’s clearly inspired by simply because* you can’t fathom Chad Michael Kaidouson could ever be eclipsed In strength.* *You aren’t the fist fan-boy to make this claim, 100 of bodies lay at the ground before you defeated* and crying because they underestimated power escalation and here the case will be no different


That's fantastic and all Turrin,* it really is*, but can you Turrinsplain to me how pre-skip Lucci, Moriah and Hody Jones are supposed to damage Enel while he electrocutes them to death?

Nope, not what the manga says.

What personal attack?

More like, I recognize that Oda as a writer has consistently shown that he's able to create suspense using things other than strength. Moriah wasn't as intimidating as Lucci, yet Oda still found a way to make it a fun and challenging encounter. Even Hody, dudes pissweak compared to FI Luffy, yet Oda found ways to make it suspenseful.

Turrin-chan, I've never seen you win a debate. There aren't "100's of fallen" at your feet. Relax.

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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> You aren’t the fist fan-boy to make this claim, 100 of bodies lay at the ground before you defeated and crying because they underestimated power escalation and here the case will be no different

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## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> One Piece doesn’t have an escalating power scale among Villains Luffy beats. Okay whatever you say bruv….


It does but the power ceiling remains untouched so far.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> That's fantastic and all Turrin,* it really is*, but can you Turrinsplain to me how pre-skip Lucci, Moriah and Hody Jones are supposed to damage Enel while he electrocutes them to death.
> 
> Nope, not what the manga says.
> 
> ...


The same way Luffy hurt Logia’s prior to manifesting Haki, by figuring out the weakness of their Logia DF and leveraging it to defeat them. Or you know simply using Sea-Stone, which Lucci clearly had access to considering Robin is place in Seastone handcuffs.
—-
Show me where the manga says AB Croc > Moriah then. I’ll wait…
—-
Part 1 disagreements aside. Louis are you going to deny that power escalation has not been a very clear and consistent plot device to forward the suspense in P2 and the New world. Was Kaidou > Kat > Doffy > Ceaser, not thee main reason Luffy has struggled to win out each successive arc?
—-
You ask what personal attacks then follow up, with never seen you win a debate. Well pretty clear how honest you are


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


>


I didn’t need your selfie bro


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> It does but the power ceiling remains untouched so far.


The ceiling so far is Roger; can you show me Roger’s strongest move? If not you don’t even know what the ceiling is

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## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> The ceiling so far is Roger; can you show me Roger’s strongest move? If not you don’t even know what the ceiling is


Roger and Primebeard were Equal, a bit out of prime PB was wary of going to Wano to avenge Oden. 

Roger considered Admirals to be a challenge for him,etc.

All of these people arent far away from each other.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## KennethLT (May 5, 2022)

considering he isn’t the final boss, no. We just haven’t been properly introduced to the strongest of the verse, which there are 2 best candidates.


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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> The same way Luffy hurt Logia’s prior to manifesting Haki, by figuring out the weakness of their Logia DF and leveraging it to defeat them. Or you know simply using Sea-Stone, which Lucci clearly had access to considering Robin is place in Seastone handcuffs.
> —-
> Show me where the manga says AB Croc > Moriah then. I’ll wait…
> —-
> ...


InB4 you tell me that Lucci and Hody pull the rubber soles off their shoes and sandals to "Blueno" Enel. 

Moriah was stated to be too weak to continue being a Shichibukai. Crocodile was kicked out not because of weakness, but because of his plot.

Power escalation certainly exists, but I'm saying we've seen its *cap*, and the cap isn't something recent, but something we've known for years. We've saw what the upper echelon of strength was on Marineford and Punk Hazard. As impressive as The RT5, Kaido and Big Mom have been, nothing they have shown makes me think "Damn, this is *TRULY far and beyond *what we saw in Marineford and the aftermath of Akainu vs Aokiji."

That's not a personal attack, that's me being honest.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

In my opinion, Imu is stronger than Kaido. Kaido’s claim to bring the strongest is the world considering him the strongest, but the world isn’t aware of Imu’s existence so I don’t think there’s a contradiction when Imu ends up stronger.

I also think Luffy, Blackbeard, and Zoro will surpass Kaido as well.

That’s it though. I got Kaido above everyone else.


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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> In my opinion, Imu is stronger than Kaido. Kaido’s claim to bring the strongest is the world considering him the strongest, but the world isn’t aware of Imu’s existence so I don’t think there’s a contradiction when Imu ends up stronger.
> 
> I also think Luffy, Blackbeard, and Zoro will surpass Kaido as well.
> 
> That’s it though. I got Kaido above everyone else.


Personally, I believe Imu to be a political figurehead with a broken ability and not much more. I don't think he could wave his hand and dust a Yonko or Admiral,  but we'll see.

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## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> In my opinion, Imu is stronger than Kaido. Kaido’s claim to bring the strongest is the world considering him the strongest, but the world isn’t aware of Imu’s existence so I don’t think there’s a contradiction when Imu ends up stronger.
> 
> I also think Luffy, Blackbeard, and Zoro will surpass Kaido as well.
> 
> That’s it though. I got Kaido above everyone else.


If imu ends up not being a spandam type character then yea I'd say so too, BB and IMU have the potential to be the strongest

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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I understand what your saying it just ignores the way power escalation has been treated in the entire series, and especially P2/New World. It also ignores how power escalation is treated by the Shonen Genre and Dragonball which the author admits to draw inspiration from.
> 
> If you want to say you have an unlikely theory this will be the case, then cool, but to belittle others who disagree with this is fairly ridiculous


Inspired by =/= copied. Oda is on record saying that if he tried to write a straight battle manga, One Piece wouldn't have been successful which is something you seem to ignore or be unaware of.

I don't believe it's unlikely that Kaido is the pinnacle of pure strength among living characters.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> InB4 you tell me that Lucci and Hody pull the rubber soles off their shoes and sandals to "Blueno" Enel.
> 
> Moriah was stated to be too weak to continue being a Shichibukai. Crocodile was kicked out not because of weakness, but because of his plot.
> 
> ...


1- So your not going to address what I actually said and just deflect to a straw-man. Okay you can mark this down as the first debate you have seen me win then lol, since you have no real counter argument and concede by default. 

2- So it was never stated and you are just arriving at this conclusion based on your own conjecture; while ignoring the vast difference in power between AB and TB Luffy that both faced. Okay gotcha 

3- How did we see it’s cap on MF when WB was the strongest individual there and stated to be weaker then his Prime? Please explain that to me.

4- Nah it’s clearly you lying to deflect from you slowly losing this debate


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> Roger and Primebeard were Equal, a bit out of prime PB was wary of going to Wano to avenge Oden.
> 
> Roger considered Admirals to be a challenge for him,etc.
> 
> All of these people arent far away from each other.


Roger considered Prime Garp and Sengoku to be a challenge for him; who we also can’t scale.

WB was wary of a war. That wasn’t about a 1v1. We also don’t really have a very reliable way to scale Oden ether. All we know is he could nearly blitz 1 shot Kaidou from back then after fighting through an army and loose in a cheap shot. That’s pretty hard to quantify


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Inspired by =/= copied. Oda is on record saying that if he tried to write a straight battle manga, One Piece wouldn't have been successful which is something you seem to ignore or be unaware of.
> 
> I don't believe it's unlikely that Kaido is the pinnacle of pure strength among living characters.


No one said copied. Goku wasn’t a pirate. However core themes being similar is very likely, especially since the theme of power escalation again especially in P2 has been a huge part of the story for hundreds of chapters now.

But again if you want to believe this won’t happen to Kaidou, I don’t have beef with you, but you need to accept your premise is vastly less likely then people saying he will be a victim of plot Power progression


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## shit (May 5, 2022)

I feel most villains aren't scared of the hit that takes them down


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## KennethLT (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> In my opinion, Imu is stronger than Kaido. Kaido’s claim to bring the strongest is the world considering him the strongest, but the world isn’t aware of Imu’s existence so I don’t think there’s a contradiction when Imu ends up stronger.
> 
> I also think Luffy, Blackbeard, and Zoro will surpass Kaido as well.
> 
> That’s it though. I got Kaido above everyone else.


I’ll go on to say that not only will they be stronger, but the gap will be very wide.

I don’t know why, but I’m starting to get Naruto war arc power scaling vibes. Kaido seems like the pinnacle of the present characters (Madara), and then well get the actual god tiers at the end (Imu/black beard)

fortunately, Oda is a competent writer who can pull it off.


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## Conxc (May 5, 2022)

He's also the dumbest. "I'm gonna take your strongest attack head on when I could fly away and doge it then bonk you and win again." I suppose at this point he's tired of Oda cucking him out of these W's.

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## KennethLT (May 5, 2022)

shit said:


> I feel most villains aren't scared of the hit that takes them down


Plot demands they don’t. Imagine a wimpy villain when they know they will be defeated.


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Personally, I believe Imu to be a political figurehead with a broken ability and not much more. I don't think he could wave his hand and dust a Yonko or Admiral,  but we'll see.



Yeah


KennethLT said:


> I’ll go on to say that not only will they be stronger, but the gap will be very wide.
> 
> I don’t know why, but I’m starting to get Naruto war arc power scaling vibes. Kaido seems like the pinnacle of the present characters (Madara), and then well get the actual god tiers at the end (Imu/black beard)
> 
> fortunately, Oda is a competent writer who can pull it off.



That’s basically turrin’s argument tbh 

I don’t think there will be anyone who can low diff Kaido in the future. Kaido will still be top 5 at minimum by the end of the series 

naruto isn’t one piece. We haven’t seen luffy hyperventilating on the floor over Zoro and kissing him yet

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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Ignore that post I quoted of yours @Louis-954 forgot to remove the quote from my post lol

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## KennethLT (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Yeah
> 
> 
> That’s basically turrin’s argument tbh
> ...


I don't see your logic on this. But I do see mines, in which this is a battle shonen where the villains will be stronger later on.


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## Firo (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> just wait till Zoro gets back up bro


When is that gonna be? Next year?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

KennethLT said:


> I don't see your logic on this. But I do see mines, in which this is a battle shonen where the villains will be stronger later on.



my logic is that what other authors do with their stories has nothing to do with one piece 

did oda write the other mangas that you’re referencing? If he didn’t then it’s not relevant

Reactions: Agree 1


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## KennethLT (May 5, 2022)

@A Optimistic 
By “I don’t see your logic” I meant that my point of view is different. i do get your logic, just that I don’t agree. I could have worded that better.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Firo said:


> When is that gonna be? Next year?



when he’s done neg diffing the skeleton any minute now


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## KennethLT (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> my logic is that what other authors do with their stories has nothing to do with one piece
> 
> did oda write the other mangas that you’re referencing? If he didn’t then it’s not relevant


Too late. Post above.

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## Firo (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> when he’s done neg diffing the skeleton any minute now


4 hours later…..

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## KennethLT (May 5, 2022)

We can all at least agree that the Legends of the past no longer are a cut above the rest. The current strongest people are just as capable as the strongest of the past, and there’s no “mid diff” going on anywhere. As far as Kaido is concerned, He is on the same tier as Roger and Primebeard. I’ll also add Shanks and Mihawk to the mix cause we know Shanks is someone Kaido views capable of fighting him toe to toe, and Mihawk can fight on that level as well.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> my logic is that what other authors do with their stories has nothing to do with one piece
> 
> did oda write the other mangas that you’re referencing? If he didn’t then it’s not relevant


But again One Piece has heavily leaned into this Typical Genre troupe even more so in P2. So this isn’t a matter of Naruto vs One Piece. This is a matter of @A Optimistic vs One Piece P2


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> But again One Piece has heavily leaned into this Typical Genre troupe even more so in P2.



You can repeat your point as much as you want. It still won’t be a good point.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Dellinger (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> But again One Piece has heavily leaned into this Typical Genre troupe even more so in P2.


Clearly as Luffy turned into a god so powerful he stomps Kaido with G5 as you thought... well not at all


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> You can repeat your point as much as you want. It still won’t be a good point.


Why don’t you properly address it then instead of deflecting to this isn’t Naruto BS? Or do you really just has no counter argument at all?


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> Clearly as Luffy turned into a god so powerful he stomps Kaido with G5 as you thought... well not at all


Literally never said that. So lies won’t help you. I’ve always said Luffy leaves this arc =~ Kaidou or marginally stronger.


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Why don’t you properly address it then instead of deflecting to this isn’t Naruto BS? Or do you really just has no counter argument at all?



I’ll gladly address a One Piece related argument if you have one. If I was interested in your Naruto arguments, I’d post in the Naruto Battledome.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Dellinger (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Literally never said that. So lies won’t help you. I’ve always said Luffy leaves this arc =~ Kaidou or marginally stronger.


So what’s the typical shonen route you’re claiming ? Because it’s nowhere


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> I’ll gladly address a One Piece related argument if you have one. If I was interested in your Naruto arguments, I’d post in the Naruto Battledome.


I’ve given you the One Piece related argument multiple times now. Power escalation has been a core theme of all of Luffy main antagonists in P2 of the story (if not the entire story, but I don’t want to get into the Lucci vs Enel debate for the 100th time).


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> So what’s the typical shonen route you’re claiming ? Because it’s nowhere


The typical Shonen Route of Power escalation is that the MC surpasses the guy he beat the previous arc by the time he beats the next big bad. Is Luffy not stronger now then when he beat Kat; was he not stronger when he beat Kat then when he beat Doffy?


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I’ve given you the One Piece related argument multiple times now. Power escalation has been a core theme of all of Luffy main antagonists in P2 of the story (if not the entire story, but I don’t want to get into the Lucci vs Enel debate for the 100th time).



?

Already said Blackbeard will grow stronger than Kaido even if he is currently weaker right now. So what are you disagreeing with exactly?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> ?
> 
> Already said Blackbeard will grow stronger than Kaido even if he is currently weaker right now. So what are you disagreeing with exactly?


The general power escalation. You still believe Kaidou will be Top 5 by the end of the story. If the escalation is consistent with what it’s been; this will not be the case. You also seem to deny that Akainu will be >= Kaidou, which is also inconsistent with the power escalation present in P2; unless your a Sabo truther.


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> The general power escalation. You still believe Kaidou will be Top 5 by the end of the story. If the escalation is consistent with what it’s been; this will not be the case. You also seem to deny that Akainu will be >= Kaidou, which is also inconsistent with the power escalation; unless your a Sabo truther.



Let me ask you a question, has there been an antagonist that has surpassed Roger/Primebeard in power yet? Or a swordsman who’s surpassed Mihawk?

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Also Akainu isn’t Luffy’s main arc opponent so I got no idea what you’re talking about lol.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Let me ask you a question, has there been an antagonist that has surpassed Roger/Primebeard in power yet? Or a swordsman who’s surpassed Mihawk?


Nope, but that’s not what I’m advocating for, as we don’t know the cap on Roger’s Power anyway.

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Nope, but that’s not what I’m advocating for, as we don’t know the cap on Roger’s Power anyway.



So if Primebeard and Mihawk’s titles haven’t been contradicted yet, why should I assume kaido’s title will be contradicted?


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Also Akainu isn’t Luffy’s main arc opponent so I got no idea what you’re talking about lol.


Even if he was a Mini Boss; the power progression in P2 of One Piece has been such that the arc mini bosses for Luffy are still >= to the prior arc antagonist. For example see Don Chinjoa >= Ceaser, Cracker >= Doffy, and if you want to count BM she was > Kat for sure


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> So if Primebeard and Mihawk’s titles haven’t been contradicted yet, why should I assume kaido’s title will be contradicted?


Because he’s going to loose to Luffy and therefore his title will be wrong.


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Because he’s going to loose to Luffy and therefore his title will be wrong.



when did Kaido lose a 1v1 fight where he was in full health?


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Even if he was a Mini Boss; the power progression in P2 of One Piece has been such that the arc mini bosses for Luffy are still >= to the prior arc antagonist. For example see Don Chinjoa >= Ceaser, Cracker >= Doffy, and if you want to count BM she was > Kat for sure



Page 1 and ulti > Katakuri as well right?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Dellinger (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> The typical Shonen Route of Power escalation is that the MC surpasses the guy he beat the previous arc by the time he beats the next big bad. Is Luffy not stronger now then when he beat Kat; was he not stronger when he beat Kat then when he beat Doffy?


What power escalation exactly ? Oda has been pretty clear about the series. Wano will usher in the endgame and Luffy has already gotten all possible power ups. He got all those power ups and Kaido fighting through multiple opponents while beating Luffy 3 freaking times. No other antagonist will get these things. You can bet on that


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## Dellinger (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Page 1 and ulti > Katakuri as well right?


Babanuki and Holdem > Katakuri

Reactions: Funny 4


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Where did you go Turrin? Tell me more about how luffy is going to contradict kaido’s title even though kaido’s just fought more than 15 people in a row

let me guess, none of the people who fought Kaido beforehand counted right?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I’ve given you the One Piece related argument multiple times now. Power escalation has been a core theme of all of Luffy main antagonists in P2 of the story (if not the entire story, but I don’t want to get into the Lucci vs Enel debate for the 100th time).


Okay, Hody vs Enel


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> when did Kaido lose a 1v1 fight where he was in full health?





A Optimistic said:


> when did Kaido lose a 1v1 fight where he was in full health?


Luffy also isn’t 100%. And even you admit Teach will be stronger, so the title as your perceiving it would be wrong then as well. Titles are fluid being the point.


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Page 1 and ulti > Katakuri as well right?


Don’t dip Into trolling. Your a mod bruv, let’s not go here. Page 1 and Ulti weren’t mini bosses at all

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Okay, Hody vs Enel


Fried fish


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Luffy also isn’t 100%. And even you admit Teach will be stronger, so the title as your perceiving it would be wrong then as well. Titles are fluid being the point.



teach being stronger later doesn’t invalidate kaido’s title of being stronger than everyone now 

why is that confusing?

and doesn’t matter if luffy isn’t 100%. His title is only contradicted if someone defeats him in a fair 1 v 1 now

Reactions: Agree 3


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Don’t dip Into trolling. Your a mod bruv, let’s not go here. Page 1 and Ulti weren’t mini bosses at all



whats the difference between Chinajo and them?


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## Kirin Thunderclap (May 5, 2022)

Imagine being wanked for having a final clash with the main protagonist when you're the main villain of the arc.

Jesus.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> His title is only contradicted if someone defeats him in a fair 1 v 1 now


Kaido is about to be beaten 1v1 by a Luffy more damaged than him (much more actually)

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

Damn sad, Akainu has been relegated to a mini boss now. Have his fans given up on him being a main fight for luffy?! 

Find out on the next post of Akainu vs Kaido.

Reactions: Funny 8


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Kaido is about to be beaten 1v1 by a Luffy more damaged than him (much more actually)



source: “trust me bro”

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> source: “trust me bro”


you think Luffy is losing ?


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## Kirin Thunderclap (May 5, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> Damn sad, Akainu has been relegated to a mini boss now. Have his fans given up on him being a main fight for luffy?!
> 
> Find out on the next post of Akainu vs Kaido.



Which Akainu fan said he was gonna be a mini boss?


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> you think Luffy is losing ?



no I’m talking about you claiming luffy is more damaged than Kaido 

if oda wanted luffy to defeat Kaido in a fair 1v1 to prove kaido’s titles wrong, then why didn’t he just do that instead of making Kaido go through a gauntlet ?


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> no I’m talking about you claiming luffy is more damaged than Kaido


? Luffy literally "died"
of course he is more damaged lol



A Optimistic said:


> then why didn’t he just do that instead of making Kaido go through a gauntlet ?


the gauntlet against people weaker than Kaido is largely irrelevant (plus Kaido had BM and breaks), and he made Luffy take even more damage to hammer in that G5 Luffy > Kaido. Even did the Bowlerhat cheapshot to put Luffy at 0.1% hp. Couldnt be more clear.


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> ? Luffy literally "died"
> of course he is more damaged lol



then he came back, transformed and said he’s feeling great.




Shiba D. Inu said:


> the gauntlet against people weaker than Kaido is largely irrelevant (plus Kaido had BM and breaks), and he made Luffy take even more damage to hammer in that G5 Luffy > Kaido. Even did the Bowlerhat cheapshot to put Luffy at 0.1% hp. Couldnt be more clear.


“The gauntlet is irrelevent cuz I said so, trust me bro”

nice rebuttal. rich coming from the guy who would 100% never say that Doflamingo facing law before fighting luffy was largely irrelevant. You like to pick and choose when outside interference is relevant and not relevant based on how much you like the specific characters involved 

 let’s be honest shiba, you don’t like Kaido so you work overtime to invalidate his title. If you want to pretend that the gauntlet was largely irrelevant even though it was stated 10 times that Kaido is struggling to hold the island, then you’re free to do so.

at the end of the day, oda said Kaido is the strongest and then refused to have Kaido defeated in a fair 1v1. Anything else is cope

Reactions: Winner 7


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## Pyriz (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Zoro

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> then he came back, transformed and said he’s feeling great.


he is powering through it.
He was "dead", which means he took more dmg than Kaido. Period



A Optimistic said:


> oda said Kaido is the strongest


"known as" 
maybe



A Optimistic said:


> in a fair 1v1.


yeah, its not fair to Luffy, since he took a ton of extra dmg due to Bowlerhat. He will still win 1v1 though.





A Optimistic said:


> nice rebuttal. rich coming from the guy who would 100% never say that Doflamingo facing law before fighting luffy was largely irrelevant. You like to pick and choose when outside interference is relevant and not relevant based on how much you like the specific characters involved
> 
> let’s be honest shiba, you don’t like Kaido so you work overtime to invalidate his title. If you want to pretend that the gauntlet was largely irrelevant even though it was stated 10 times that Kaido is struggling to hold the island, then you’re free to do so.


wordswordswords


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Pyriz said:


>



is there a problem with Zoro surpassing Kaido one day?


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## Pyriz (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> is there a problem with Zoro surpassing Kaido one day?


Personally, I think Law and Kid have a better argument for actually surpassing him. If anything I'd consider Kaido to be Zoro's ceiling at best, but that's just my opinion of course.


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Pyriz said:


> Personally, I think Law and Kid have a better argument for actually surpassing him. If anything I'd consider Kaido to be Zoro's ceiling at best, but that's just my opinion of course.



I’m not exactly sure why you think two people who are weaker than Zoro and will always be weaker than Zoro have a better chance than Zoro at surpassing Kaido but we are all entitled to our opinions

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Pyriz (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> weaker than Zoro


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## Oberyn Nymeros (May 5, 2022)

mobidicur said:


> Not even Shanks.


......was this in question?


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Pyriz said:


>



two Zoro’s could defeat big mom without bombs

Reactions: Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Pyriz (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> two Zoro’s could defeat big mom without bombs


BM would make lots of new friends for Napoleon

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Canute87 (May 5, 2022)

Oda doing his best to convince people that luffy is not at kaido's level.


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## Revan Reborn (May 5, 2022)

B Rabbit said:


> No top tier has feats compared to Kaidou right now.


If you want to argue feats, white beards feat of literally shifting the plates the island and the area of sea was sitting on is greater than this if going by metrics. You could also argue fujitora dropping a meteor, when it comes to energy.


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## Fel1x (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> You should have seen how he acted when Zoro scarred Kaido and Law had a shocked face on. Man was working overtime to do damage control.


his current proadmiral copium might a bit pathetic, but Law>Zoro. and always will be till Law's death


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> his current proadmiral copium might a bit pathetic, but Law>Zoro. and always will be till Law's death



Oda already proved Zoro > Law when Doflamingo beat up Law but Fujitora had to protect Doflamingo from Zoro's anger. Fujitora is the reason that Dressrosa didn't end early.

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> What power escalation exactly ? Oda has been pretty clear about the series. Wano will usher in the endgame and Luffy has already gotten all possible power ups. He got all those power ups and Kaido fighting through multiple opponents while beating Luffy 3 freaking times. No other antagonist will get these things. You can bet on that


I just explained how the arc has powerscaled; and unless you think Kaidou >= Roger then this isn’t endgame


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## Fel1x (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Oda already proved Zoro > Law when Doflamingo beat up Law but Fujitora had to protect Doflamingo from Zoro's anger. Fujitora is the reason that Dressrosa didn't end early.


is this your only argument? what if it was Zoro who faced Doffy alone? could he do better? Law literally killed Doffy, but Doffy cheated


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> whats the difference between Chinajo and them?


Luffy actually has a major fight with him and not on off clashes


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## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> is this your only argument? what if it was Zoro who faced Doffy alone? could he do better? Law literally killed Doffy, but Doffy cheated


You're talking about a dude that couldn't cut birdcage after stating he could cut anything.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> is this your only argument? what if it was Zoro who faced Doffy alone?



Uh Zoro did attack Doflamingo alone, it's clearly in the panel I just posted. Who else was trying to attack Doflamingo in that panel.



Fel1x said:


> could he do better?



Of course he would have done better than Law. Tell me why Fujitora intervened. 



Fel1x said:


> Law literally killed Doffy, but Doffy cheated



Wrong.

Doflamingo low diffed Law in their fight and shot Law with a bunch of bullets. Law only landed Gamma Knife after doing a trick with Luffy, that's not relevant in a 1v1 fight.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Fel1x (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Uh Zoro did attack Doflamingo alone, it's clearly in the panel I just posted. Who else was trying to attack Doflamingo in that panel.


but that panel doesn't mean anything. Just Zoro being brave. trying to attack superior fighter. Fujitora literally saved Zoro there. Swordsmen labor union


A Optimistic said:


> Of course he would have done better than Law. Tell me why Fujitora intervened.


as I said, he saved poor even not YC4 level dude


A Optimistic said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Doflamingo low diffed Law in their fight and shot Law with a bunch of bullets. Law only landed Gamma Knife after doing a trick with Luffy, that's not relevant in a 1v1 fight.


i don't actually understand you. you are just jokingly messing with me right now or you really think DR Law<DR Zoro?


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> but that panel doesn't mean anything. Just Zoro being brave. trying to attack superior fighter. Fujitora literally saved Zoro there. Swordsmen labor union



why do you think fujitora was trying to save zoro? fujitora tried sinking zoro in the ground right after, it makes no sense that he was trying to save zoro

fujitora was trying to save doflamingo because he wanted to have a conversation with doflamingo before making his decision. explain why fujitora would try sinking zoro in a hole if he tried saving him



Fel1x said:


> as I said, he saved poor even not YC4 level dude
> 
> i don't actually understand you. you are just jokingly messing with me right now or you really think DR Law<DR Zoro?



why would i be joking? zoro is stronger than law in any arc you compare them in, not just dressrosa

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> teach being stronger later doesn’t invalidate kaido’s title of being stronger than everyone now
> 
> why is that confusing?
> 
> and doesn’t matter if luffy isn’t 100%. His title is only contradicted if someone defeats him in a fair 1 v 1 now


Because Kaidou will still hold the title at that time; assuming I go with Luffy not taking his title. So at some point it will be wrong for sure and therefore can be wrong now.

Bare in mind I also completely disagree with the way your interpreting the title in the first place; as there are many titles that conflict with it such as WB’s.


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Because Kaidou will still hold the title at that time; assuming I go with Luffy not taking his title. So at some point it will be wrong for sure and therefore can be wrong now.



what if kaido dies this arc? would that change your mind?



Turrin said:


> Bare in mind I also completely disagree with the way your interpreting the title in the first place; as there are many titles that conflict with it such as WB’s.



i dont think whitebeard's title contradicts with it tbh. we dont know if kaido had that title while whitebeard was alive


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## AnimePhanatic (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> why do you think fujitora was trying to save zoro? fujitora tried sinking zoro in the ground right after, it makes no sense that he was trying to save zoro
> 
> fujitora was trying to save doflamingo because he wanted to have a conversation with doflamingo before making his decision. explain why fujitora would try sinking zoro in a hole if he tried saving him
> 
> ...


Fujitora trying to save Zoro by attacking him isn't impossible.
See Kuma and the Strawhats


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

AnimePhanatic said:


> Fujitora trying to save Zoro by attacking him isn't impossible.
> See Kuma and the Strawhats



kuma sent zoro on a nice vacation

fujitora tried murdering zoro and only zoro creating an airslash powerful enough to push fujitora back allowed him to escape


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## MartyMcFly1 (May 5, 2022)

I disagree, but he is very strong. Certainly not the strongest ever and I don’t even think the current strongest.

Talk about a lack of tension if the strongest most insurmountable character is defeated well before the story ends. In theory he could just show up and defeat everyone and take One Piece for himself.

If this is true, Oda should show everyone looking over their shoulders from time to time from now on, making sure Kaido hasn’t come to defeat everyone.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 2 | Tier Specialist 2


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## AnimePhanatic (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> kuma sent zoro on a nice vacation
> 
> fujitora tried murdering zoro and only zoro creating an airslash powerful enough to push fujitora back allowed him to escape


Kuma attacked all Strawhats. Only difference is we got Intel on his intent. We have none on Fujitora's


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> what if kaido dies this arc? would that change your mind?
> 
> 
> 
> i dont think whitebeard's title contradicts with it tbh. we dont know if kaido had that title while whitebeard was alive


If Kaidou dies this arc, it still doesn’t change the fact that titles are fluid. For example when Zoro beats Mihawk, his title will be wrong. When WB reached his most injured in MF he was no longer WSM. And so on. 
—-
According to the Ace Novel he did.


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> If Kaidou dies this arc, it still doesn’t change the fact that titles are fluid. For example when Zoro beats Mihawk, his title will be wrong. When WB reached his most injured in MF he was no longer WSM. And so on.
> —-
> According to the Ace Novel he did.



if zoro beats mihawk, then he will have the WSS title in an intro box the same way mihawk did


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> if zoro beats mihawk, then he will have the WSS title in an intro box the same way mihawk did


Most People in the world  aren’t going to “say” Zoro is the WSS the moment he cuts down Mihawk. It’s going to take time for this information to get around to people. So People “Saying” Kaidou is WSC doesn’t really mean someone else couldn’t have gotten stronger then him invalidating the title and people just aren’t aware of it yet. This is what I mean by the fluidity of titles.

But again Kaidou title is being misinterpreted Imo to begin with

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Ren. (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Turrin arguing how One Piece works by discussing every manga but One Piece will forever be funny to me.


Yeah he really thinks he is discussing OP when he in fact is not.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Most People in the world  aren’t going to “say” Zoro is the WSS the moment he cuts down Mihawk. It’s going to take time for this information to get around to people. So People “Saying” Kaidou is WSC doesn’t really mean someone else couldn’t have gotten stronger then him invalidating the title and people just aren’t aware of it yet. This is what I mean by the fluidity of titles.
> 
> But again Kaidou title is being misinterpreted Imo to begin with



it's going to appear in an intro box after mihawk gets clapped

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> it's going to appear in an intro box after mihawk gets clapped


So People “say” Zoro is the WSS is going to appear in an intro Box. I doubt that greatly. If he is stated WSS outright by the narrator; that never happened for Kaidou period, so that’s apples and oranges


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## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> it's going to appear in an intro box after mihawk gets clapped


You're mistaken, we're all random east blue citizens, we wont see an intro box, therefore Zoro is not WSS to some people.


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## Shanks (May 5, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> He's the absolute undisputed strongest among living top tiers after this.
> 
> Sorry, but no one else is meeting that attack head on with zero hesitation or hint of fear. And he's doing it after running the ultimate gauntlet with basically zero breaks in action.


Kaido is strong, yes. But didn't Doffy did the same thing with God Thread?

And Luffy is stronger than Kaido. That's one person.


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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

Shanks said:


> Kaido is strong, yes. *But didn't Doffy did the same thing with God Thread?*
> 
> And Luffy is stronger than Kaido. That's one person.


1. he didn't.

2. King Kong Gun is far, far smaller than Balrang

3. Luffy isn't stronger than kaido. He had multiple breaks and help from 16 people.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Kaido had multiple breaks and the biggest help of all from Bowlerhat

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Sherlōck (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> So if Primebeard and Mihawk’s titles haven’t been contradicted yet, why should I assume kaido’s title will be contradicted?



Cause Kaidou's title is a rumor.


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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Kaido had multiple breaks and the biggest help of all from Bowlerhat


1. Except he only had one short break before the RT5 showed up. None others. Luffy had multiple breaks where he was defended by other people, fed, saved from drowning and even give first aid. Who fed or gave first aid to Kaido? Who defended Kaido when he couldn't move after being defeated?

2. Luffy said "This is my last attack, if this isn't enough* I'll lose*". We know that another Supreme Kong Gun wouldn't have been enough so  CP0's interference was nearly irrelevant.

Once again you put on full display for everyone how little you pay attention to what you read.  Shiba, you can't beat me or catch me with a "gotcha!" in a debate. I read very carefully and I choose my words and what I choose to debate even more carefully. I don't debate or comment on things I'm not 99% certain I'm right about.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Sablés (May 5, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> 1. Except he only had one short break before the RT5 showed up. None others. Luffy had multiple breaks where he was defended by other people, fed, saved from drowning and even give first aid. Who fed or gave first aid to Kaido? Who defended Kaido when he couldn't move after being defeated?
> 
> 2. Luffy said "This is my last attack, if this isn't enough* I'll lose*". We know that another Supreme Kong Gun wouldn't have been enough so  CP0's interference was nearly irrelevant.
> 
> Once again you put on full display for everyone how little you pay attention to what you read.  Shiba, you can't beat me or catch me with a "gotcha!" in a debate. I read very carefully and I choose my words and what I choose to debate even more carefully. I don't debate or comment on things I'm not 99% certain I'm right about.


You taking Flutter srsly, m8? He's in full-cope mode.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Louis-954 (May 5, 2022)

Sablés said:


> You taking Flutter srsly, m8? He's in full-cope mode.


I just really like dismantling bad debators who don't think through what they say before they say it to me, lol.


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## Fujitora (May 6, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> he is powering through it.
> He was "dead", which means he took more dmg than Kaido. Period


The damage treshold required to kill someone varies from person to person, this is even more true in OP.


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## Fujitora (May 6, 2022)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Imagine being wanked for having a final clash with the main protagonist when you're the main villain of the arc.
> 
> Jesus.


Thanks for your weekly Kaido sux collaboration bb, I hope to see you next week. Same time?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Seraphoenix (May 6, 2022)

I can't wait for Luffy vs 3 admirals   

While Sabo solos Akainu

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 4 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Seraphoenix (May 6, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> ......was this in question?


Kaido views Shanks as his only living competitor. So if Shanks can't take him down then likely no one else can.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## hisoga (May 6, 2022)

Sherlōck said:


> Cause Kaidou's title is a rumor.


Cause Kaidou's title is a rumor.




What is it with some people regarding this topic?

Kaidou's title or WB's WSM or Mihawk's WSS or Roger's PK etc, they are all the same...

If you think 1 is just a rumor and not true, then they are all rumors and not true.


The reason is simple.... there is no official and universal agreement/standard whether un the form tournaments or ranks or stats to judge them.



Just like in the real world. MJ or Lebron, Manning or Tom Brady etc...



Its all come down to personal opinions or bias. One can try to be objective as possible by using stats, accomplishments, longevity etc but the truth is by whose standard? Not everybody will agree at just 1 standard.



WSC, WSM, WSS, PK etc, those title start off as rumors/hearsays and eventually stuck. As "title", they are not like "admiral", "schcibukai", king of certain country etc.


Title like admiral, vice admiral, chief of staff of rev army etc, or even Yonkou are much more reliable and most certainly not base on rumors because they have a lot of standards and regulations.


For example, Roger never heard about PK title even after he reached Laugh Tale. His dream was not to be one either. 



The people of the world gave that title to him because of his accomplishments but readers should not forget that for 99.999% population of the planet, Roger's accomplishments including reaching the Laugh Tale were "rumors/hearsays" too.

They only read it on newspaper etc or heard it from somebody else who certainly not part of Roger's Pirate.

The same thing with WB's WSM or any others. The people of the world gave that title to WB based on all the rumors they heard about him. Even of a character fought WB 1 time, for example Roger, how is that even make WB was the WSM? By whose standard?

Another example, we use Ace vs WB. Ace fought WB 100+ time. And then what? Whats make WB WSM? Even if Ace said that WB was the WSM, was that really make WB the WSM?


Then we had to ask why Ace became the judge or the standard? Its not like Ace ever had experiences vs everybody alive on that planet at that time.


Even if Ace had all those experiences vs everyone in the world, many other arguments against Ace opinion can be made.

So, yeah, WB's WSM is also just a rumors/hearsays.

And please dont bring up "but the Oda's box said" stuff because if Oda's is reliable and 100% undeniable truth then Demalo Black is the Strawhat Pirate Captain, Monkey D Luffy because Oda's box said so. Oda's box only show what the One Piece world believes and not the hard undeniable truth.


When it come to chapter 795, the chapter for Kaidou's introduction, when it come to writing or reading/watching/hearing a story, we can look at it this way. When the story tell us about a "rumors" or a legend/myth without actually showing those "rumors/myth/etc" thwn yes, we readers/watchers can take it as a rumors/red herring/etc and not as fact.

But if the narrator tell us a rumors/legend/myth/etc and at the same time show us the event in front of us, then that is one of the way the writer hyping up new character or plot point etc.
The way Oda use to introduce Kaidou in chapter 795 by using "ridiculous rumors/legends/myths/" is very common in asian story telling.
Oda literally show us in that chapter that Kaidou is a monster and pretty much in line with what the rumors says about him.


I feel like using Kaidou's title is a rumor is just ridiculous and lack of basic understanding of literature. 

Or maybe just a hypocrisy.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | GODA 1


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## featherine augustus (May 6, 2022)

Sherlōck said:


> Cause Kaidou's title is a rumor.


Oda in SBS -- Kaido is strongest

Oda in SBS -- Brings Kaido's strength when Lakainu was being discussed

In vivre card -- Kaido is WSC with no "they say"

Killer after fighting red hair pirates -- Kaido is WSP

Zoro -- Kaido is WSM

"But but kaido isn't one" lol. Then who is? Dogainu?

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## IchijiNijiSanji (May 6, 2022)

Y'all really giving kaido flowers for having the typical main villain/protag clash at the end?
Do you think other top tiers would try to dodge it in such a situation? 
Even caesar clown tried to clash with G3 haki'd up 

Kaido isn't even trying to tank it, he's just hoping to vaporize luffy's arm so it doesn't hit him.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (May 6, 2022)

Strongest =/= will mid diff everyone. But he might edge everyone out atm. Of course pending what we see from Elbaf Big Mom, EoS Teach, Snitch, etc...


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (May 6, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Do you think other top tiers would try to dodge it in such a situation?



Big Mom will 100% try to dodge it. She doesn't have a deathwish like Kaido even when her dura is exceptional. Only reason she didn't dodge Kidd and Law's attacks is because she was either trapped by the other or blindsided.


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## featherine augustus (May 6, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Y'all really giving kaido flowers for having the typical main villain/protag clash at the end?
> Do you think other top tiers would try to dodge it in such a situation?
> Even caesar clown tried to clash with G3 haki'd up
> 
> Kaido isn't even trying to tank it, he's just hoping to vaporize luffy's arm so it doesn't hit him.


But Kaido likes flowers


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## Sherlōck (May 6, 2022)

hisoga said:


> Cause Kaidou's title is a rumor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


TLDR.



featherine augustus said:


> Oda in SBS -- Kaido is strongest



Nope



featherine augustus said:


> Oda in SBS -- Brings Kaido's strength when Lakainu was being discussed



Cause it's Laidou's arc



featherine augustus said:


> In vivre card -- Kaido is WSC with no "they say"



Manga >> VC



featherine augustus said:


> Killer after fighting red hair pirates -- Kaido is WSP



No one said he isn't current strongest pirate.



featherine augustus said:


> Zoro -- Kaido is WSM



So Zoro is experienced NW veteran now?



featherine augustus said:


> "But but kaido isn't one" lol. Then who is? Dogainu?



As the only character who beat another top tier 1v1 maybe.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Lewd 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Beast (May 6, 2022)

I would still disagree, I put my money on Deagon, Akainu and Shanks being his level, maybe even stronger.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (May 6, 2022)

Beast said:


> I would still disagree, I put my money on Deagon, Akainu and Shanks being his level, maybe even stronger.



Honestly, I forgot about Dragon. Dude is such an afterthought

Reactions: Funny 1


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## KBD (May 6, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> In my opinion, Imu is stronger than Kaido. Kaido’s claim to bring the strongest is the world considering him the strongest, but the world isn’t aware of Imu’s existence so I don’t think there’s a contradiction when Imu ends up stronger.
> 
> I also think Luffy, Blackbeard, and Zoro will surpass Kaido as well.
> 
> That’s it though. I got Kaido above everyone else.


You forgot Yamato


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## Beast (May 6, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Honestly, I forgot about Dragon. Dude is such an afterthought


well, it’s only in OP the father and grandfather who are full fledged top tiers get downplayed. 


Dragon probably loses to Imu after taking on the marines.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (May 6, 2022)

Beast said:


> well, it’s only in OP the father and grandfather who are full fledged top tiers get downplayed.
> 
> 
> Dragon probably loses to Imu after taking on the marines.



His best feat is stopping Logue town Smoker. 

Even the mostly featless top tiers have something going on for them like Shanks clashing with Whitebeard. 

He's an unknown in terms of strength. I'm guessing he'll be YC level at best unless Oda has other plans.


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## Beast (May 6, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> His best feat is stopping Logue town Smoker.
> 
> Even the mostly featless top tiers have something going on for them like Shanks clashing with Whitebeard.
> 
> He's an unknown in terms of strength. I'm guessing he'll be YC level at best unless Oda has other plans.


what? 
Loool, clearly as I said bias is very real against the Monkey D family doesn’t make any sense as to why but whatever. 


YC level


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (May 6, 2022)

Beast said:


> what?
> Loool, clearly as I said bias is very real against the Monkey D family doesn’t make any sense as to why but whatever.
> 
> 
> YC level



YC level isn't fodder in the One Piece world. Marco, Kata, Current Law, and Current Zoro are also considered YC.

He'll probably have several Yonko damaging moves, but his Dura/Endura will probably suffer.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Beast (May 6, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> YC level isn't fodder in the One Piece world. Marco, Kata, Current Law, and Current Zoro are also considered YC.
> 
> He'll probably have several Yonko damaging moves, but his Dura/Endura will probably suffer.


… do you really think that saying Dragon the most wanted man, father to Mc and son to the greatest marine is YC has any credibility?  


His subordinates are easily FM level and injuring two admirals, fuck your talking about YC level  


Well, thank you for proving my point so effortlessly.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Piecesis (May 6, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> YC level isn't fodder in the One Piece world. Marco, Kata, Current Law, and Current Zoro are also considered YC.
> 
> He'll probably have several Yonko damaging moves, but his Dura/Endura will probably suffer.


No mention of kidd

Reactions: Funny 3


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## featherine augustus (May 6, 2022)

Sherlōck said:


> TLDR.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


--Yes



--COPE 

--Defeat accepted

--Lol

--Fodder lakainu isn't touching waido

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 5


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (May 6, 2022)

Beast said:


> … do you really think that saying Dragon the most wanted man, father to Mc and son to the greatest marine is YC has any credibility?
> 
> 
> His subordinates are easily FM level and injuring two admirals, fuck your talking about YC level
> ...



He's most wanted due to what he knows or wants to accomplish. Not necessarily his strength. 

Anyways, you don't have to be convinced. 

It's very hard to gauge Dragon. I could be wrong, can't really tell atm.


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## Gianfi (May 6, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> He's the absolute undisputed strongest among living top tiers after this.
> 
> Sorry, but no one else is meeting that attack head on with zero hesitation or hint of fear. And he's doing it after running the ultimate gauntlet with basically zero breaks in action.


Yeah, he is up there at the top with Roger, Newgate, Xebec etc


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## Dragon D. Luffy (May 6, 2022)

Turrin said:


> If the manga ends with Luffy one punching Akainu and Teach 2 chapters after defeating Kaidou then I will agree with you; otherwise you have to be wrong for the narrative to function.



Teach will be stronger than Kaido by the time Luffy fights him, doesn't mean he is right now.

Imu is likely stronger than Kaido rn, which does invalidate the point of this thread, but no one knows Imu exists, so kaido's title as world's strongest is still fair.

Akainu is likely weaker right now, so either he gets a power up, or I don't think Luffy will the one to fight him.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sherlōck (May 6, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> --Yes
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*"SAID TO"*

Thanks for proving my point Genius.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (May 6, 2022)

Everytime oda is like "said to be" "thought to be" "considered as" 

He never slips


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## Sherlōck (May 6, 2022)

Also *Waidou*?

Laidou's whole shtick is how many times he lost and how many times he was captured.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 2


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## featherine augustus (May 6, 2022)

Sherlōck said:


> *"SAID TO"*
> 
> Thanks for proving my point Genius.


Vivre card COPE

Also Lakainu has nothing like that lmfao


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## AnimePhanatic (May 6, 2022)

Sherlōck said:


> Also *Waidou*?
> 
> Laidou's whole shtick is how many times he lost and how many times he was captured.


Luffy has lost and has been captured more times than Kaido. That doesn't mean he won't be the strongest EOS, neither does it mean he isn't a top tier right now. So using that as a point against Kaido without using it against Luffy is well... Double standards

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ayy lmao (May 6, 2022)

AnimePhanatic said:


> Luffy has lost and has been captured more times than Kaido. That doesn't mean he won't be the strongest EOS, neither does it mean he isn't a top tier right now. So using that as a point against Kaido without using it against Luffy is well... Double standards


Luffy is also gonna defeat more top tiers than Kaido, so it all adds up


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## Karma (May 6, 2022)

So does this confirm Zoro missed FDB rather than have it dodged?


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## qOcOp (May 6, 2022)

Also remember, he's been battling quite a long time before the 1 on 1 luffy battle as well.


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## alexderman (May 6, 2022)

One adcock slash from mihawk and kaido would be beheaded in an instant... ; )

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> Teach will be stronger than Kaido by the time Luffy fights him, doesn't mean he is right now.
> 
> Imu is likely stronger than Kaido rn, which does invalidate the point of this thread, but no one knows Imu exists, so kaido's title as world's strongest is still fair.
> 
> Akainu is likely weaker right now, so either he gets a power up, or I don't think Luffy will the one to fight him.


So he gets a power up then. There is no way Luffy is not the one fighting him when he goes around stealing the main villains of other characters lol


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## Lawliet (May 6, 2022)

Kaidou is the absolute strongest character in the present and he is as strong as prime Roger & WB.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 3 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Dragon D. Luffy (May 6, 2022)

Turrin said:


> So he gets a power up then. There is no way Luffy is not the one fighting him when he goes around stealing the main villains of other characters lol



I'd estimate about 75% of OP fans think Sabo will be the one to fight him, so I'm not sure how sure that is.

(I'm in the camp of Luffy vs Akainu but I'm the minority).


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## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> I'd estimate about 75% of OP fans think Sabo will be the one to fight him, so I'm not sure how sure that is.
> 
> (I'm in the camp of Luffy vs Akainu but I'm the minority).


I don’t think that’s true at all. It’s just a vocal community of Kaidou-Stans. Who don’t want him to fight Akainu because that means Akainu will be >= Kaidou.

Though even if it was a majority, that wouldn’t say much as the majority here in the OL are wrong most of the time about how events will unfold in One Piece


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## shintebukuro (May 6, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Nope. This isn't Dragonball Z or Naruto. We've known what top tier strength looks like since Marineford, and not every subsequent arc villain is > previous arc villains. Later opponents can challenge and make Luffy struggle in different ways like many opponents in the past have.



Why?

What really makes you think One Piece is so different from DBZ or Naruto?

You really don't think there's one more HUGE powerup for Luffy in the future, consisting of the highest level of haki, which is the exact reason why Roger/Shanks were/are so strong? Because I find it incredibly obvious.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheOmega (May 6, 2022)

mobidicur said:


> For real, no one is stronger right now. Not even Shanks


Ay...
You watch your mouth

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Firo (May 6, 2022)

Kaido is definitely the strongest. His feats check out. Luffy about to pack him tho.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Firo (May 6, 2022)

Started watching the anime again recently tho. Can’t lie. Kaido’s Dragon theme is fire.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Nello (May 6, 2022)

This whole "said to be" thing is most likely just to make a loophole for Imu. I can't believe there's been so much denial over this title

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Simao97 (May 6, 2022)

Turrin taking wins left & right here. Imagine thinking that the MC has met his ultimate power-based challenge numerous arcs before the finish line, with the reasoning being that his foe has survived numerous bouts against lower-level scrubs ..

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## MrAnalogies (May 7, 2022)

Sherlōck said:


> TLDR.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For someone named Sherlock, it's ironic you managed to make one of the dumbest posts in this thread.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## Lawliet (May 7, 2022)

Let's also not forget that Kaidou is tied to a prophecy. 

Whether you like it or not, Oden and the Roger's learned something on laugh tale. They were given a time, 20 years specifically and precisely. That cannot be mere coincidence. 

Kaidou is a part of the prophecy. Kaidou haters, let that sink in for a second. 

Kaidou is the first villain we know who is literally tied to a prophecy that's apparently been written for over 800 years.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Amol (May 7, 2022)

Nothing that Kaido has shown so far tells me that he is on PK level.

But that is not the point of thread.
Currently nobody is PK level which is why guys like Luffy and BB special.

As for Kaido being current strongest?
Possible if we talk about only known characters. Imu is obviously stronger than him. There is good chance that Dragon is too. They both are shrouded in mystery for ordinary folks. Not enough information on them to almost anyone. Dragon's own people used to wonder whether he is human or not. 

So those are the only ones I can see being stronger than Kaido. BB will obviously surpass him next time we see him.

Shanks I am not really sure. He is extremely popular character which might make Oda make him stronger. Power creep is a bitch after all. By that time Oda might not care about Kaido enough. He always hypes up next guy when arc villain goes down.


So while I do lean towards Kaido being the current strongest among known characters, I don't take it as a certainty.

What we feel like now is not necessarily how we will feel in next arc which would be in days or weeks in verse. Kaido is in the end just an arc villain after all.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sherlōck (May 7, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> For someone named Sherlock, it's ironic you managed to make one of the dumbest posts in this thread.



Next time I change my name to Messi I will be sure to be one of the GOAT in football beforehand. 

Thanks Mr Analogy who can't make any distinction or comparison.




Also are all Laidou fans dumb as fuck or just the one in here? 

Fuck, I am wasting way too much time with numbnuts.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Big king (May 7, 2022)

Completely delusional. Also lol at Suggegeting Albasta Crocodile was stronger than Thriller Bark Moria/OZ combo.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lawliet (May 7, 2022)

Big king said:


> Completely delusional. Also lol at Suggegeting Albasta Crocodile was stronger than Thriller Bark Moria/OZ combo.


I'm not sure who said that, but it's not laughable. 

Crocodile is definitely stronger than Moria on his own. Oz? I don't know, how can a corpse use Haki to damage a logia?

If this topic is about previous villains being stronger than future villains. All I have to say is Enel.


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## Big king (May 7, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> I'm not sure who said that, but it's not laughable.
> 
> Crocodile is definitely stronger than Moria on his own. Oz? I don't know, how can a corpse use Haki to damage a logia?
> 
> If this topic is about previous villains being stronger than future villains. All I have to say is Enel.



Enel was a villain specifically crafted to lose to the MC and an Outlier. Using him as a proof is laughable unless Kaido's attacks don't work on Rubber either. Lucci was a far greater threat to the crew and Luffy needed to get far stronger to surpass him. OZ controlled by Moria was the main antagonist of the thriller bark arc and nightmare Luffy was needed to win. To suggest a character like Crocidile who couldn't beat Gearless Luffy is on the same level is ridiculous. Luffy will need to get stronger post Wano to beat whoever he's up against which has always been the case.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kobe (May 7, 2022)

He has unmatched endurance. I don’t know about Akainu but Teach doesn’t have an endurance in caliber of Kaido.

Haki > DF talk may apply to Shanks, but Akainu didn’t seem all that special in haki department.

Kaido already killed Luffy a few times. The reason this fight is continuing is because Oda wants Luffy to win for plot reasons. No other explanation. Kaido has proven himself many times throughout this raid, it is like asking Michael Jordan to prove himself after the 5th title. If you poke the bear dragon you are gonna get maimed.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrAnalogies (May 7, 2022)

Sherlōck said:


> Next time I change my name to Messi I will be sure to be one of the GOAT in football beforehand.
> 
> Thanks Mr Analogy who can't make any distinction or comparison.
> 
> ...


Whose Mr Analogy?

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrAnalogies (May 7, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> I'm not sure who said that, but it's not laughable.
> 
> Crocodile is definitely stronger than Moria on his own. Oz? I don't know, how can a corpse use Haki to damage a logia?
> 
> If this topic is about previous villains being stronger than future villains. All I have to say is Enel.


It's just people forcing the story to fit their narrative while ignoring the manga.

I don't see a weak cowardly clown like Wapol who Luffy didn't take seriously defeating Arlong. I don't even think Mr. 3 could beat Arlong without prep. Bellamy would 100% lose to guys like Daz Bones and Mr. 2, let alone Crocodile. Foxy is not beating Enel in a million years. Lucci isn't beating Enel unless you use the current one who knows haki. Hodi Jones isn't beating Moriah, the friend lost to Zoro with 1 sword while underwater.

As for Croc vs Moria, the manga itself made it very obvious Moria was weaker. Not only do we have scenes such as Jimbei managing to own him, the government literally ordered his execution because he was too weak to remain a warlord. If Croc was weaker than a person they deemed too weak to remain on the roster, Croc would have been ejected long ago.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## featherine augustus (May 7, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> For someone named Sherlock, it's ironic you managed to make one of the dumbest posts in this thread.


Yeah lol well said

Reactions: Like 1


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## featherine augustus (May 7, 2022)

Sherlōck said:


> Next time I change my name to Messi I will be sure to be one of the GOAT in football beforehand.
> 
> Thanks Mr Analogy who can't make any distinction or comparison.
> 
> ...


Dumbo waisting his own time lol


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## featherine augustus (May 7, 2022)

Amol said:


> Nothing that Kaido has shown so far tells me that he is on PK level.
> 
> But that is not the point of thread.
> Currently nobody is PK level which is why guys like Luffy and BB special.
> ...


Roger/WB no doubt has better portrayal but by feats Kaido > WB

Matchup matters also ; roger being swordsman has easy time against kaido because of Lethality where WB's attacks are less lethal

Kaido is island level and will push WB plus the heat

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rp4lyf (May 7, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> Roger/WB no doubt has better portrayal but by feats Kaido > WB
> 
> Matchup matters also ; roger being swordsman has easy time against kaido because of Lethality where WB's attacks are less lethal
> 
> Kaido is island level and will push WB plus the heat


Whitebeard is also a blade user, and has swordsmanshio skills, so that point does not work.

Luffy has lethality from Internal Destruction haki, force from physical strength and Conqueors Coating, and advanced armament haki barrier.


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## featherine augustus (May 7, 2022)

Rp4lyf said:


> Whitebeard is also a blade user, and has swordsmanshio skills, so that point does not work.
> 
> Luffy has lethality from Internal Destruction haki, force from physical strength and Conqueors Coating, and advanced armament haki barrier.


Yeah but hasn't used any ranged attacks like swordsman do

Ok but why you bring luffy?


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## A Optimistic (May 7, 2022)

Nello said:


> This whole "said to be" thing is most likely just to make a loophole for Imu. I can't believe there's been so much denial over this title



That's exactly why it's "said to be". I'm shocked so many people don't realize that.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 7, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Turrin arguing how One Piece works by discussing every manga but One Piece will forever be funny to me.



Ironically, he doesn't understand how any of the other manga he cites/alludes to work either.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Ezekjuninor (May 7, 2022)

Nello said:


> This whole "said to be" thing is most likely just to make a loophole for Imu. I can't believe there's been so much denial over this title


Been saying this for a while. It wouldn't make sense if Kaido's title was only rumoured because someone like Akainu is stopping him from getting an official title. Akainu's fight with WB was broadcast across the whole world. It is known around the world that he defeated Aokiji. People would know if Akainu was stronger than Kaido. It is most likely due to Imu, as he is an unknown entity, that Kaido was not given an official WSC title in the manga.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> For someone named Sherlock, it's ironic you managed to make one of the dumbest posts in this thread.


Should have named themselves " No Shit Sherlock" instead.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 8, 2022)

Also only ones that will surpass Kaido would be Blackbeard/Imu.

Akainu doesn't want to be humiliated so he would fight Sabo instead.

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## Duhul10 (May 8, 2022)

The AW community on full guard 
They're at war with Oda.

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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 8, 2022)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Ironically, he doesn't understand how any of the other manga he cites/alludes to work either.


Wait he isn't credible even in Naruto?

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## Chip Skylark (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> the government literally ordered his execution because he was too weak to remain a warlord. If Croc was weaker than a person they deemed too weak to remain on the roster, Croc would have been ejected long ago.


This the only example I disagree with. Moria was a Shichibukai for a while. Only reason he was thrown out is because his consecutive losses caused them to worry about the Shichibukai's reputation. Even someone like Buggy could remain on the roster so long as he didn't sully his reputation. Otherwise totally solid points.


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## RossellaFiamingo (May 8, 2022)

Amol said:


> *Nothing that Kaido has shown so far tells me that he is on PK level.*
> 
> But that is not the point of thread.
> Currently nobody is PK level which is why guys like Luffy and BB special.
> ...


How can you tell that you're looking at a "PK Level" feat when you have nothing to give any credence to the conclusion that he is not PK level.  What Feat or display have you seen in the manga that is clearly PK level that you can say with such confidence that nothing that Kaido has shown is PK level?

I'm not saying he is or is not, just that the way you phrase things, the logic is faulty.

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## Turrin (May 8, 2022)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Been saying this for a while. It wouldn't make sense if Kaido's title was only rumoured because someone like Akainu is stopping him from getting an official title. Akainu's fight with WB was broadcast across the whole world. It is known around the world that he defeated Aokiji. People would know if Akainu was stronger than Kaido. It is most likely due to Imu, as he is an unknown entity, that Kaido was not given an official WSC title in the manga.


WB wasn’t “said to be” WSM, WSP, or WS. So that would only make sense if WB > IMU > Kaidou. What makes more sense is that Oda is talking about Kaidou’s as a living organism being the most durable/resilient, which is how WSC is used often in the media. And the reason the “said to be” thing exists is because Kaidou despite being a Dragon-Oni isn’t the strongest creature because Luffy with the Nika Fruit is, because whatever the fuck type of creature God Nika is, is more resilient/durable then Dragon-Oni; and people don’t know about these Gods.

Which is why at the end of the fight Luffy will be WSC without the “is said to be” part.


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## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> How can you tell that you're looking at a "PK Level" feat when you have nothing to give any credence to the conclusion that he is not PK level.  What Feat or display have you seen in the manga that is clearly PK level that you can say with such confidence that nothing that Kaido has shown is PK level?
> 
> I'm not saying he is or is not, just that the way you phrase things, the logic is faulty.


There is no such thing as PK level unless you're comparing someone who found the One Piece and how they accomplished it to another person who found the One Piece. The title has nothing to do with raw power.

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## RossellaFiamingo (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> There is no such thing as PK level unless you're comparing someone who found the One Piece and how they accomplished it to another person who found the One Piece. The title has nothing to do with raw power.


thats partly my point in the post


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## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> thats partly my point in the post


I figured that. I was basically co-signing for others to see since this somehow becomes a conversation every other week.

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## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Kaidou directly talks about it in relation to power only a chapter ago. It for sure does, this is a Shonen. Please learn this


No, he says Roger reached the top by mastering haki. Yet WB was still considered the worlds strongest man while Roger was still alive and frequently had many battles with Roger in which they fought as equals. Garp also fought equally with Roger and Roger himself admits they had many close life and death battles. He also considers Sengoku and Shiki worthy rivals. Then there's the question of whether Kaido had his title back then or not. That's far too many characters shown to be on Rogers level for an imaginary "pirate king level" in terms of combat.

Finding the One Piece and becoming pirate king did not suddenly raise Rogers power level. Buggy would have been pirate king if he had all 4 poneglyphs and a means to get there.

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## Turrin (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> No, he says Roger reached the top by mastering haki. Yet WB was still considered the worlds strongest man while Roger was still alive and frequently had many battles with Roger in which they fought as equals. Garp also fought equally with Roger and Roger himself admits they had many close life and death battles. He also considers Sengoku and Shiki worthy rivals. Then there's the question of whether Kaido had his title back then or not. That's far too many characters shown to be on Rogers level for an imaginary "pirate king level" in terms of combat.
> 
> Finding the One Piece and becoming pirate king did not suddenly raise Rogers power level. Buggy would have been pirate king if he had all 4 poneglyphs and a means to get there.


Before I even address why Roger is above most if not all of these individuals. I first need to be explained why a Level can’t included 5-10 individuals. There are easily 5-10 individuals who have been Yonko level, so why can’t there be 5-10 individuals who are a level above this at PK level. You seem to be just setting an arbitrary limit on this level.
—-
Yes it did raise his power. The Journey made him stronger. We are literally told this outright by the whole Oden returned many fold stronger from this Journey. We are also being outright shown it happening with Luffy throughout 1048 chapter of the manga. I’m begging you to acknowledge what happens in the past of the manga and stop blaming others for doing so

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## Ezekjuninor (May 8, 2022)

Turrin said:


> WB wasn’t “said to be” WSM, WSP, or WS. So that would only make sense if WB > IMU > Kaidou.


Imu may not be a man but would still be a creature. Considering Imu has likely lived for 800+ years it's likely an "It" or could possibly be a woman. Hence WB's title would not involve Imu at all. Kaido was never "said to be" the WSP, Killer directly calls him the WSP and Kidd agrees with him.


> What makes more sense is that Oda is talking about Kaidou’s as a living organism being the most durable/resilient, which is how WSC is used often in the media. And the reason the “said to be” thing exists is because Kaidou despite being a Dragon-Oni isn’t the strongest creature because Luffy with the Nika Fruit is, because whatever the fuck type of creature God Nika is, is more resilient/durable then Dragon-Oni; and people don’t know about these Gods.
> 
> Which is why at the end of the fight Luffy will be WSC without the “is said to be” part.


This just seems like a baseless assumption from someone who has made a conclusion and then tries to find anything that would suit their argument rather than making a conclusion based on the evidence around them.

Oda talking about Kaido: "The enemy that must be defeated now is *said to be the strongest man in the world*" and uses Kaido as an example of strength when talking about how powerful a mother is despite the question asking about Akainu, again showing that Oda views Kaido as the current pinnacle of strength.

You can call it a joke or whatever but when asked if a mother is stronger than Akainu Oda one-ups the question and says that she's even stronger than Kaido. It would make absolutely no sense for Oda to mention Kaido if he didn't see him as stronger than Akainu. Also, these are SBS questions which Oda actually takes time to think about his answers.

Oda titles a chapter about Kaido dominating the scabbards as "Island of the strongest".


Killer and Kidd on Kaido's strength:


Narrator statement: "people say, *'In a one-on-one fight, always bet on Kaido."* Again this has nothing to do with Kaido being an Oni or simply being more durable than anyone else, rather, it is about Kaido himself being powerful not his race.


Everything points to Kaido being the current strongest in the world until a hidden character like Imu is revealed or BB/Luffy surpass him.

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## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Before I even address why Roger is above most if not all of these individuals. I first need to be explained why a Level can’t included 5-10 individuals. There are easily 5-10 individuals who have been Yonko level, so why can’t there be 5-10 individuals who are a level above this at PK level. You seem to be just setting an arbitrary limit on this level.
> —-
> Yes it did raise his power. The Journey made him stronger. We are literally told this outright by the whole Oden returned many fold stronger from this Journey. We are also being outright shown it happening with Luffy throughout 1048 chapter of the manga. I’m begging you to acknowledge what happens in the past of the manga and stop blaming others for doing so


Show me a single page in the manga where it says Roger became stronger *after* finding the One Piece. Everything you wrote is head canon.

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## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Ezekjuninor said:


> This just seems like a baseless assumption from someone who has made a conclusion and then tries to find anything that would suit their argument rather than making a conclusion based on the evidence around them.


What you're describing is a phenomenon called confirmation bias. 90% of Turrins posts are confirmation bias and anyone who disagrees with his agenda is either trolling or just not using their brain.

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## Turrin (May 8, 2022)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Imu may not be a man but would still be a creature. Considering Imu has likely lived for 800+ years it's likely an "It" or could possibly be a woman. Hence WB's title would not involve Imu at all. Kaido was never "said to be" the WSP, Killer directly calls him the WSP and Kidd agrees with him.
> 
> This just seems like a baseless assumption from someone who has made a conclusion and then tries to find anything that would suit their argument rather than making a conclusion based on the evidence around them.
> 
> ...


1) WB has been outright called the strongest alive. So trying to say he’s only the strongest Man doesn’t even work

2) Your evidence amounts to a Joke and the opinions of clearly uninformed characters. We know these Worlds Strongest titles can’t have such board encompassing definitions otherwise they conflict with each other. WB title conflicts with Mihawk’s and Roger’s. Kaidou’s title conflicts with WB’s. If we take these definitions.


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## Turrin (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Show me a single page in the manga where it says Roger became stronger *after* finding the One Piece. Everything you wrote is head canon.


Show me a single page where it says he didn’t. If you can’t then we go with what is most likely. We are seeing a character Journey to become PK, we are seeing it make him massively stronger over time. We know characters aboard Roger’s ship on his Journey got massively stronger. You need to stop this nonsense with requiring a statement from someone else when you can’t provide one yourself. Huge double standard your employing simply to try to remain willfully ignorant to what the manga is telling you

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## Turrin (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> What you're describing is a phenomenon called confirmation bias. 90% of Turrins posts are confirmation bias and anyone who disagrees with his agenda is either trolling or just not using their brain.


Pretty sure confirmation bias applies more to someone saying Kaidou is the strongest alive based on a Joke and uninformed characters. But that’s just me

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## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Show me a single page where it says he didn’t.


That's not how that works. You made a claim, so now you have to back it up. The burden of proof is on you. I don't have to prove anything.

The only thing we know about the pirate king title is that you get it after reaching Raftel and finding the one-piece. Any random person, even buggy or Caribou, can become pirate king if they have all the tools they need.


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## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Pretty sure confirmation bias applies more to someone saying Kaidou is the strongest alive based on a Joke and uninformed characters. But that’s just me


Well, no, saying kaido is the strongest alive is based on the fact he was called that multiple times in multiple sources. Kid and killer are not uninformed, they fought 3 different yonko and still called Kaido the strongest. The narrator called Kaido the strongest, so did the Ace novel, sbs, etc. If all else fails, bring up an irrelevant topic to argue and waste time I guess?

Confirmation bias is literally all you do in all your threads.

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## Ezekjuninor (May 8, 2022)

Turrin said:


> 1) WB has been outright called the strongest alive. So trying to say he’s only the strongest Man doesn’t even work


When was WB ever officially called the strongest alive? He's been called the WSM/WSP, titles which have a very good chance of not including Imu.


Turrin said:


> 2) Your evidence amounts to a Joke and the opinions of clearly uninformed characters. We know these Worlds Strongest titles can’t have such board encompassing definitions otherwise they conflict with each other. WB title conflicts with Mihawk’s and Roger’s. Kaidou’s title conflicts with WB’s. If we take these definitions.


Terrible examples. WB isn't a swordsman and has never been called a swordsman. Roger was WB's equal and so does not conflict with WB's title at all. When Kaido got his title is unknown. Again you have 0 evidence for your viewpoint. My evidence comes from statements directly from Oda, the One Piece world as they say, "bet on Kaido in a one-on-one", and several characters. Your evidence is... nothing.

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## Ezekjuninor (May 8, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Pretty sure confirmation bias applies more to someone saying Kaidou is the strongest alive based on a Joke and uninformed characters. But that’s just me


Oda - "Right now, the  we have to defeat is the man said to essentially be the world's strongest."









It's okay I'm sure every One Piece character is just misinformed and you know much more than everyone in the One Piece world even including Oda.


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## featherine augustus (May 8, 2022)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> How can you tell that you're looking at a "PK Level" feat when you have nothing to give any credence to the conclusion that he is not PK level.  What Feat or display have you seen in the manga that is clearly PK level that you can say with such confidence that nothing that Kaido has shown is PK level?
> 
> I'm not saying he is or is not, just that the way you phrase things, the logic is faulty.


They have weird way of scaling lol


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## featherine augustus (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> There is no such thing as PK level unless you're comparing someone who found the One Piece and how they accomplished it to another person who found the One Piece. The title has nothing to do with raw power.


Without oden Roger never would have been *PK*

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## featherine augustus (May 8, 2022)

Debating with turrin is waste of time lol

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## Grinningfox (May 8, 2022)

PK level doesn’t exist

It wasn’t obtained by strength

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## Revan Reborn (May 8, 2022)

Calling kaido the strongest, only to concede that IMU is stronger only invalidates kaido being the strongest thus making the argument fallible.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Seraphoenix (May 8, 2022)

Grinningfox said:


> PK level doesn’t exist
> 
> It wasn’t obtained by strength


With Roger I agree. He didn't have to beat anyone. Luffy is different:





He also tells Fuji he is beating Yonko and admirals to be PK

So we will have a PK level by EoS. Roger likely wouldn't make the cut in present day. He would have just been a Yonkno.

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## Turrin (May 9, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> That's not how that works. You made a claim, so now you have to back it up. The burden of proof is on you. I don't have to prove anything.
> 
> The only thing we know about the pirate king title is that you get it after reaching Raftel and finding the one-piece. Any random person, even buggy or Caribou, can become pirate king if they have all the tools they need.


No we both made a claim. The difference is I have provided supplementary evidence, while you had provided no statement or supplementary evidence.


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## Turrin (May 9, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Well, no, saying kaido is the strongest alive is based on the fact he was called that multiple times in multiple sources. Kid and killer are not uninformed, they fought 3 different yonko and still called Kaido the strongest. The narrator called Kaido the strongest, so did the Ace novel, sbs, etc. If all else fails, bring up an irrelevant topic to argue and waste time I guess?
> 
> Confirmation bias is literally all you do in all your threads.


WB was called such by that logic by way more source. Yet your confirmation bias only acknowledged Kaidou.

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## Turrin (May 9, 2022)

Ezekjuninor said:


> When was WB ever officially called the strongest alive? He's been called the WSM/WSP, titles which have a very good chance of not including Imu.
> 
> Terrible examples. WB isn't a swordsman and has never been called a swordsman. Roger was WB's equal and so does not conflict with WB's title at all. When Kaido got his title is unknown. Again you have 0 evidence for your viewpoint. My evidence comes from statements directly from Oda, the One Piece world as they say, "bet on Kaido in a one-on-one", and several characters. Your evidence is... nothing.


1) In his Vivre card.

Also once again Kaidou is consider a “Man” too

2) 

- WB has a sword. Therefore he is a swordsman. 
- You can’t be the Strongest Man, if another Man equals you. 
- Ace Novel confirms it is at the same time as WB had his title.

My statements come form the same source but more numerous. You know this, stop being willfully ignorant

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## Turrin (May 9, 2022)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Oda - "Right now, the  we have to defeat is the man said to essentially be the world's strongest."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m pretty sure it’s confirmation bias to believe Killer and Kidd are more well informed then Sengoku, WB himself, etc…

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## featherine augustus (May 9, 2022)

Turin piece

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## GreenEggsAHam (May 9, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> He's the absolute undisputed strongest among living top tiers after this.
> 
> Sorry, but no one else is meeting that attack head on with zero hesitation or hint of fear. And he's doing it after running the ultimate gauntlet with basically zero breaks in action.


Luffy stronger lol


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## Ezekjuninor (May 9, 2022)

Turrin said:


> 1) In his Vivre card.


Vivre card is supplementary material I'm talking about inverse. Kaido has equally been called the WSC without rumour/hearsay in the VC.


Turrin said:


> Also once again Kaidou is consider a “Man” too


Don't see how this is relevant.


Turrin said:


> - WB has a sword. Therefore he is a swordsman.


WB uses a polearm, he obviously isn't a swordsman and has never been called a swordsman even if a polearm can technically be called a sword. Also, he didn't even use his polearm but most of his attacks in MF.


Turrin said:


> - You can’t be the Strongest Man, if another Man equals you.


Yes, you can if you are exact equals or you could argue that WB would be stronger than Roger by an extremely small margin. For example, if they had 1000 fights WB may win 501.


Turrin said:


> - Ace Novel confirms it is at the same time as WB had his title.


Ace Novel isn't written by Oda. The Ace Novel also explains how they both held the title at the same time.


Turrin said:


> My statements come form the same source but more numerous. You know this, stop being willfully ignorant


You have posted 0 sources or evidence that suggests Kaido's WSC title refers solely to his Oni race or his durability:


Turrin said:


> What makes more sense is that Oda is talking about Kaidou’s as a living organism being the most durable/resilient, which is how WSC is used often in the media. And the reason the “said to be” thing exists is because Kaidou despite being a Dragon-Oni isn’t the strongest creature because Luffy with the Nika Fruit is, because whatever the fuck type of creature God Nika is, is more resilient/durable then Dragon-Oni; and people don’t know about these Gods.


What has been shown in the manga that suggests this is even a tiny bit credible?


Turrin said:


> I’m pretty sure it’s confirmation bias to believe Killer and Kidd are more well informed then Sengoku, WB himself, etc…


What are you even talking about? When did I say Kaido was stronger than WB?

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## Turrin (May 9, 2022)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Vivre card is supplementary material I'm talking about inverse. Kaido has equally been called the WSC without rumour/hearsay in the VC.
> 
> Don't see how this is relevant.
> 
> ...


1) You have literally been citing a Joke from an SBS as evidence. Now your saying we can’t use supplementary material, when nothing inverse conflicts with it. That’s a huge double standard.

2) Because if Kaidou is considered a “man” it’s clear that WB title extends to other species as well; and the whole IMU isn’t a human doesn’t work. Though I guess IMU could be a woman.

3) He uses a polearm that is called a sword. He wields this therefore he’s a swordsman. Your simply making the distinction that it isn’t his main profession or skill. Which is fine but then you are allowing for room for interpretation when it comes to WSS that you aren’t allowing for WSC. Which again is a double standard.

4) No you can’t be the strongest and still have an equal that defied the definition of the word especially when Roger wasn’t also called WSM. And nothing in canon says WB would win more then Roger, if anything everything leans towards Roger having a potential edge.

5) Ace novel was supervised/approved by Oda. And it doesn’t explain it as Skull says something different from the narrator of the novel and other characters. All the Ace novel shows is that there were clear conflicting beliefs among people as to who the strongest was and why, and that the titles can have less then straight forward meanings.

6) What evidence would you like beyond the fact that it conflicts with WB title any other interpretation of it?

7) The context of Kaidou title is all about his resilience and how he is more resilient then any other life form. This is exactly what people in our world talk about when determine what is the strongest creature in the world not who can win in a fight. This also fits with his title King of the Beasts 

8) If you don’t think this then Kaidou’s title is in conflict with WBs


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## Ezekjuninor (May 9, 2022)

Turrin said:


> 1) You have literally been citing a Joke from an SBS as evidence. Now your saying we can’t use supplementary material, when nothing inverse conflicts with it. That’s a huge double standard.


Again one is directly from Oda and the other isn't. And when asked if we will see gear 5th in this arc Oda says, "Right now, the  we have to defeat is the man said to essentially be the world's strongest." If you want to use the VC I don't really care, Kaido is directly called the WSC in the VC so either way, it doesn't help your argument at all.



Turrin said:


> 2) Because if Kaidou is considered a “man” it’s clear that WB title extends to other species as well; and the whole IMU isn’t a human doesn’t work. Though I guess IMU could be a woman.


Just because Kaido is known as a man doesn't mean Imu will be. We have absolutely no information for Imu to assume that he would be considered a "man".



Turrin said:


> 3) He uses a polearm that is called a sword. He wields this therefore he’s a swordsman. Your simply making the distinction that it isn’t his main profession or skill. Which is fine but then you are allowing for room for interpretation when it comes to WSS that you aren’t allowing for WSC. Which again is a double standard.


Yes, he uses a polearm but I think it's quite clear that WB isn't actually a swordsman. Claiming that WB, who uses a polearm sparingly and was shown to use his fists more in combat, isn't a swordsman is completely different to claiming that Kaido's WSC title is about his Oni race or his durability. Not to mention that Kaido's introduction was direct hype for his ability in one-on-one combat. 



Turrin said:


> 4) No you can’t be the strongest and still have an equal that defied the definition of the word especially when Roger wasn’t also called WSM. And nothing in canon says WB would win more then Roger, if anything everything leans towards Roger having a potential edge.


I would disagree if they are exact equals, the same way you can have tied first place. If this is the hill you want to die on then that would just suggest that WB is very slightly stronger than Roger. Nothing shows that Roger has the edge over WB in terms of strength.



Turrin said:


> 5) Ace novel was supervised/approved by Oda. And it doesn’t explain it as Skull says something different from the narrator of the novel and other characters. All the Ace novel shows is that there were clear conflicting beliefs among people as to who the strongest was and why, and that the titles can have less then straight forward meanings.





Turrin said:


> 6) What evidence would you like beyond the fact that it conflicts with WB title any other interpretation of it?


It was supervised but was not written by Oda. It is supplementary material the same way star wars books are. If I was to take the Ace Novel as accurate then that would mean a rookie Ace can actually harm a stronger version of WB than what was shown in MF which doesn't line up with the manga at all. Also, Skull studied WB and is unbiased. He claims Kaido was the strongest while WB's way of life was the strongest as a pirate.

And none of this suggests that your interpretation of Kaido's title being only to do with durability or his race is correct.



Turrin said:


> 7) The context of Kaidou title is all about his resilience and how he is more resilient then any other life form. This is exactly what people in our world talk about when determine what is the strongest creature in the world not who can win in a fight. This also fits with his title King of the Beasts


No, it isn't at all. I just showed this. What does any of this have to do with resilience?

*Oda - "Right now, the  we have to defeat is the man said to essentially be the world's strongest."*

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## Turrin (May 9, 2022)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Again one is directly from Oda and the other isn't. And when asked if we will see gear 5th in this arc Oda says, "Right now, the  we have to defeat is the man said to essentially be the world's strongest." If you want to use the VC I don't really care, Kaido is directly called the WSC in the VC so either way, it doesn't help your argument at all.
> 
> 
> Just because Kaido is known as a man doesn't mean Imu will be. We have absolutely no information for Imu to assume that he would be considered a "man".
> ...


1) Both are supplementary material. If you can bring supplementary material into this you have to allow others to as well, otherwise double standard

2) By that same logic IMU may not be known as a living thing ether lol. Your just arguing highly unlikely loop holes that can apply to your own reasoning as well

3) Swordsman, “a man who fights with a sword”. WB fights with a sword, so by definition he is a swordsman. You just only want to be dogmatic when it comes to Kaidou’s title and no one else’s.

4) You can’t just disagree with definitions of words; while at the same time once again be dogmatic with Kaidou’s title being taken verbatim. And this isn’t about what I agree with it’s about the hypocrisy of your stance. You allow for leeway in interpreting every title but Kaidou’s

5) We take the information given in Supplementary as accurate unless that specifics piece of info is contradicted with the Manga. Only you are saying WB can’t have WSM title at the same time as Kaidou’s title, not the manga.

Skull was informed based on Rumors, i think the narrator is at least as credible if not more so then Skull.

6) “Invincible” Is one again about durability. This is constantly the context of Kaidou’s title. He can’t be killed.

7) People have subjective opinions in the One Piece world about what makes someone the Strongest (this is explained in more detail in the Ace Novel), for some people Kaidou’s resilience and unkillable nature makes him the Strongest Pirate or Man. For others they value different attributes, hence why we have these competing titles.

Kidd and Killer are just not a good reference in general. Their views on power scaling are really bad. They thought they could beat BM and Kaidou for example with the other Supernova. So what is their opinion really worth exactly when they have no clue how strong the Top Tiers really are?


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## Ezekjuninor (May 9, 2022)

Turrin said:


> 1) Both are supplementary material. If you can bring supplementary material into this you have to allow others to as well, otherwise double standard


One is written by Oda and one isn't. That is not a double standard that is using more reliable information over less reliable information. Oda cannot be wrong about his own manga, someone writing about One Piece which Oda supervises over is far less reliable. and as I've said 100 times already, the vivre card says Kaido is the WSC the same way it says WB was the strongest when he was alive so it really doesn't prove anything either way.


Turrin said:


> 2) By that same logic IMU may not be known as a living thing ether lol. Your just arguing highly unlikely loop holes that can apply to your own reasoning as well


We know Imu is alive so he would be a creature. A creature that has lived for over 800 years being referred to as "it" instead of a man isn't that unlikely.


Turrin said:


> 3) Swordsman, “a man who fights with a sword”. WB fights with a sword, so by definition he is a swordsman. You just only want to be dogmatic when it comes to Kaidou’s title and no one else’s.


A character that uses his Devil fruit and fists to fight far more than he uses his polearm isn't a swordsman unless actually stated to be. We have an actual example of this with King.

Calling WB a swordsman would be putting him in a category that he clearly doesn't fit in.


Turrin said:


> 4) You can’t just disagree with definitions of words; while at the same time once again be dogmatic with Kaidou’s title being taken verbatim. And this isn’t about what I agree with it’s about the hypocrisy of your stance. You allow for leeway in interpreting every title but Kaidou’s


I don't see anything wrong with WB having an equal or very near equal as WSM. Kaido could also have an exact equal and hold the WSC title and I would have no problem with that. You keep making ridiculous false equivalences. Roger being equal to WB despite WB having the WSM title is absolutely nothing like Kaido's WSC title being about his resiliency and not his strength despite having essentially no evidence of that.


Turrin said:


> 5) We take the information given in Supplementary as accurate unless that specifics piece of info is contradicted with the Manga. Only you are saying WB can’t have WSM title at the same time as Kaidou’s title, not the manga.
> 
> Skull was informed based on Rumors, i think the narrator is at least as credible if not more so then Skull.


I never said they can't have the title at the same time I said it's never been shown that they do in the manga. And when does the narrator state that WB is stronger than Kaido contradicting Skull's statement?


Turrin said:


> 6) “Invincible” Is one again about durability. This is constantly the context of Kaidou’s title. He can’t be killed.


Kaido's title is never used in reference to his durability.

He is introduced as being invincible and then it's stated that in a one-on-one bet on Kaido and that he is the WSC in the land, sea and air. Clearly in reference to his strength. Oda titles his chapter about Kaido dominating the scabbards as "Island of the strongest" again has nothing to do with Kaido's resilience. Oda himself says that Kaido is said to essentially be the World's strongest again nothing to do with resilience.


Turrin said:


> 7) People have subjective opinions in the One Piece world about what makes someone the Strongest (this is explained in more detail in the Ace Novel), for some people Kaidou’s resilience and unkillable nature makes him the Strongest Pirate or Man. For others they value different attributes, hence why we have these competing titles.


When has Kaido been called the WSC because of his durability?


Turrin said:


> Kidd and Killer are just not a good reference in general. Their views on power scaling are really bad. They thought they could beat BM and Kaidou for example with the other Supernova. So what is their opinion really worth exactly when they have no clue how strong the Top Tiers really are?


I think I trust their power scaling more than yours and nowhere do they mention that Kaido is the WSP because of his resilience despite you claiming that is why he holds this title.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 5


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Wait he isn't credible even in Naruto?


Ofc not haha

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Turrin (May 9, 2022)

Ezekjuninor said:


> One is written by Oda and one isn't. That is not a double standard that is using more reliable information over less reliable information. Oda cannot be wrong about his own manga, someone writing about One Piece which Oda supervises over is far less reliable. and as I've said 100 times already, the vivre card says Kaido is the WSC the same way it says WB was the strongest when he was alive so it really doesn't prove anything either way.
> 
> We know Imu is alive so he would be a creature. A creature that has lived for over 800 years being referred to as "it" instead of a man isn't that unlikely.
> 
> ...


1) One is also a Joke and the other is a serious statement that was approved of by Oda. So Yeah….

2) IMU being alive doesn’t mean he is a creature that isn’t consider a “man”. Kaidou isn’t Human entirely and he is consider a “man”.

3) By definition he is a Swordsman. Once again what your getting into is how titles can have different meanings then their verbatim ones in One Piece. Which is exactly the same thing I’m saying with Kaidou’s title. All this is, is a double standard.

4) It doesn’t matter to me if you don’t see anything wrong, as it invalidates the definition of the word Strongest

5) Dude stop being dishonest the entire build up to that panel was how he is impossible to kill. To tell me that didn’t have to do with the context is simple dishonestly

6) You can trust characters who have been wrong constantly about how characters scale over actual top tiers If you want, but normally we don’t do that

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Ezekjuninor (May 9, 2022)

Turrin said:


> 1) One is also a Joke and the other is a serious statement that was approved of by Oda. So Yeah….
> 
> 2) IMU being alive doesn’t mean he is a creature that isn’t consider a “man”. Kaidou isn’t Human entirely and he is consider a “man”.
> 
> ...


Man, I'm tired, you're never going to change your mind.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Lmao (May 9, 2022)

Oda had a chapter titled "Island of the Strongest" and within the same chapter had Killer reference Kaido as the world's strongest pirate and Turrin is _*still *_arguing his title is not strength related.

What else does Oda need to do to convince you Turrin?

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## Turrin (May 10, 2022)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Man, I'm tired, you're never going to change your mind.


If your not going to bring anything new to the table then probably not. But I have a question if it’s confirmed WSM existed at the same time as WSC in the manga and not just Ace novel, would that change your mind


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## emojimovie (May 10, 2022)

Strongest? No way. Most durable? Quite likely, only competition is akainu or luffy


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## ShWanks (May 12, 2022)

He's the strongest creature in history

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShWanks (May 12, 2022)

That logic doesn't work here as Kaido fought 15 different opponents prior to Luffy with no breaks lol


Turrin said:


> If the manga ends with Luffy one punching Akainu and Teach 2 chapters after defeating Kaidou then I will agree with you; otherwise you have to be wrong for the narrative to function.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Turrin (May 12, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> That logic doesn't work here as Kaido fought 15 different opponents prior to Luffy with no breaks lol


Please explain to me how not fighting those 15 enemies would matter when facing Barjang Gun.


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## ShWanks (May 12, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Please explain to me how not fighting those 15 enemies would matter when facing Barjang Gun.


He's not fresh that's how. We have no way of knowing how much health Kaido lost prior to the attack. We have the excuse of saying Kaido wasn't at his best & Oda did that intentionally. Kaido already confirmed he's stronger than Akainu so it's set in stone.

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## ShWanks (May 13, 2022)

Chapters out Spoiler:



















Kaido definitely surpassed Roger & WB. He claimed WB wasn't capable of beating him & that only Joyboy could & Rocks was considered unstoppable after KAIDO joined not WB.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Turrin (May 13, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> He's not fresh that's how. We have no way of knowing how much health Kaido lost prior to the attack. We have the excuse of saying Kaido wasn't at his best & Oda did that intentionally. Kaido already confirmed he's stronger than Akainu so it's set in stone.


That’s no what I asked. I asked how would having more health help him against Barjang Gun. If you have no answer then you know your wrong.

Also it’s not like Luffy hasn’t lost as much or more health prior to this final clash with Kaidou.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 14, 2022)

He sure is rocking Usopp's pfp   , talk about perfect characterization.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## ShWanks (May 14, 2022)

Turrin said:


> That’s no what I asked. I asked how would having more health help him against Barjang Gun. If you have no answer then you know your wrong.
> 
> Also it’s not like Luffy hasn’t lost as much or more health prior to this final clash with Kaidou.


Because he can still fight after it most likely while Luffy most likely used up all his Haki for that single attack like the more experienced Gear 4 form...Luffy was even stated to be killing himself after restarting Gear 5. That means if Barjang Gun can't oneshot Kaido then Kaido gets an automatic win just like Doffy vs Luffy had Dressrossa not helped him after Gear 4 timelimit.

Bruh what? Luffy got 3 times to rest a recover while Kaido fought 18 quality fighters back to back. Luffy lost health to KAIDO meaning you can't use that as a point in Luffy's favor. That means both starting 100% Kaido is favored to win. Kaido even played around for majority of the fight & refused to dodge lol. Barjang Gun isn't oneshotting Kaido who not even the Marines could kill despite having Garp etc.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Turrin (May 14, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Because he can still fight after it most likely while Luffy most likely used up all his Haki for that single attack like the more experienced Gear 4 form...Luffy was even stated to be killing himself after restarting Gear 5. That means if Barjang Gun can't oneshot Kaido then Kaido gets an automatic win just like Doffy vs Luffy had Dressrossa not helped him after Gear 4 timelimit.
> 
> Bruh what? Luffy got 3 times to rest a recover while Kaido fought 18 quality fighters back to back. Luffy lost health to KAIDO meaning you can't use that as a point in Luffy's favor. That means both starting 100% Kaido is favored to win. Kaido even played around for majority of the fight & refused to dodge lol. Barjang Gun isn't oneshotting Kaido who not even the Marines could kill despite having Garp etc.


What evidence do you have that Kaidou can still fight after taking Barjang Gun.

Clearly Luffy didn’t use up all his Haki on that attack as he used like 80 some CoC attacks before that one.
—-
Luffy lost health to Kaidou before he got stronger, he wouldn’t loose that same health if he was at his peak and without bowler hat interfering. So yes that’s a worse disadvantage then Kaidou loosing health to fighters way weaker then Kaidou


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## ShWanks (May 14, 2022)

Turrin said:


> What evidence do you have that Kaidou can still fight after taking Barjang Gun.
> 
> Clearly Luffy didn’t use up all his Haki on that attack as he used like 80 some CoC attacks before that one.
> —-
> Luffy lost health to Kaidou before he got stronger, he wouldn’t loose that same health if he was at his peak and without bowler hat interfering. So yes that’s a worse disadvantage then Kaidou loosing health to fighters way weaker then Kaidou


I don't need any because Kaido never took it at 100% health. I have no burden of proof. In fact if the attack doesn't kill Kaido you'd need proof not me considering it didn't immediately KO him upon impact.

Lol that still makes my point. Kaido's would beat him due to him severely spending his Haki reserves.


No it's not. Kaido was literally tanking EVERY attack instead of dodging with Future Sight.


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## Turrin (May 15, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> I don't need any because Kaido never took it at 100% health. I have no burden of proof. In fact if the attack doesn't kill Kaido you'd need proof not me considering it didn't immediately KO him upon impact.
> 
> Lol that still makes my point. Kaido's would beat him due to him severely spending his Haki reserves.
> 
> ...


You made a claim. That Kaidou would have done better against Barjang gun at 100% Health, because he would have still been able to fight after taking a hit from it. That’s absolutely your burden to prove. You don’t get to throw out whatever nonsense you want and have no burden to prove it.
—-
Huh? No it doesn’t if Luffy can use 90 other CoC attacks then one Barjang gun is not using up all his reserves for Haki as you claimed it would.
—-
Kaidou tanked attacks from weak fighters; Luffy tanked attacks from Kaidou. Hope you can see the difference

Reactions: GODA 1


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