# Are there any ninja that could actually kill the nine tails in his normal beast form?



## Transcendent Shinobi (Sep 26, 2013)

Besides Jubito and the sage of the six paths.


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## Jad (Sep 26, 2013)

It's stupid of Kishimoto. But Hashirama or Madara.


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 26, 2013)

Hashirama and Madara are the only ones capable of taking it on at the moment. Both of their potential damage outputs in sage mode and perfect Susano'o, respectively, are equal if not even greater than Kurama's and have abilities which allow them to weaken or control it as well. Not to mention the fact that both of them are canonically capable of blocking attacks from Kurama without a huge level of difficulty. Eventually, Sasuke and Naruto should be able to do the same. Sasuke will surpass Madara eventually, and since Naruto is his rival, Naruto would probably follow soon afterwards.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Sep 26, 2013)

Hashirama and Madara are still the only ones who can pull off such a feat. Hashirama with dat wood, Madara with Sharingan Genjustu alone.


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## Psp123789 (Sep 26, 2013)

If you mean actually kill then there are none. If you mean defeat then hashirama, Madara, minato, and naruto are the only ones I can think. Hashirama already defeated it, Madara controls it with the sharingan then drops meteors on it or destroys it with PS slashes, Minato RDS or by warping back its TBB's on itself, Naruto uses KSM or BSM clones to restrain kurama and then destroys it with super senjutsu enhanced TBB's. I would say itachi or sasuke but the flames can easily be roared off and then they get eaten or vaporized because they can't hurt it. Nagato's only hope is that human path will effect Kurama but he won't be able to get close enough before he is eaten or impaled by a claw and CT gets easily destroyed before it could do anything. Jinton could kill it but it would have to be a massive one and I can't see them doing that before a roar or TBB kills them.


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## ueharakk (Sep 26, 2013)

Hashirama:  suppress Kurama with mokuton and then kill it with shinuusenjuu
Madara: control Kurama with the sharingan then kill it with PS
Naruto: outright beat it with super bijuudamas done in BSM
Kushina: seal it inside of her then comit suicide
edo Minato: tag it, then teleport hundreds of miles away and warp super bijuudamas onto it
Pre-jubi Obito: control Kurama with sharingan and kill it with his other paths


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## Joakim3 (Sep 26, 2013)

Discounting BSM Naruto & Edo BM Minato for being better at just about everything.... 

Madara, Obito, Hashirama via Mokuton & EMS Supression, and then nuking an K/0 Kurama via _Shinshensenju_, PS & _Biju Rikudo_. 

Kushina can seal it inside herself and the off herself if that counts, while Itachi & Sasuke could kill Kurama via _Amaterasu_, but would die in the process when he lobs a view Bijudama in the general direction in anger and pain from being burned alive


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## Sadgoob (Sep 26, 2013)

... Itachi would Tsukuyomi him to death.


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## Lawrence777 (Sep 26, 2013)

If Naruto has to fight the Kyuubi I'd assume that to mean the Kyuubi is not inside him.


Naruto's strongest form minus Kyuubi is Sage Mode, which while powerful is not strong enough to solo beast form Kyuubi imo.

Hashirama and Madara can definitely do it, I don't think the Kyuubi by itself would push either of them beyond mid difficulty.

Minato already defeated Kyuubi in cannon but he died in the process. I think he'd be able to stalemate it/ both become sealed if he fought it again. Someone powerful enough to host the nine tails would have to be with him, and he himself would be sacrificed for the death reaper seal.

Enton/Amaterasu users should be able to kill it, provided Amaterasu effects the Kyuubi in the same way it has effected the Hachibi, as in spreading and inducing debilitating pain so Kyuubi can't meaningfully retaliate.


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## Enki (Sep 26, 2013)

Hashi (Shinsuusenju and Mokuton Wood Human), Madara (Genjutsu + PS Slash), Sasuke, Edo Itachi (Genjutsu + Amaterasu exactly like Sasuke), Obito (Sharingan Genjutsu + Kamui to the head). Assuming Minato and Naruto won't have Kyuubi in them.


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## blk (Sep 26, 2013)

With raw power: Madara, Hashirama, Naruto and Minato.

Via suppression: Madara, Hashirama, Obito, Itachi and Sasuke.

Via hax/particular abilities: Muu (invisibility + Jinton to the face), Nagato (Preta Path), Kisame, Naruto (he should be able to protect Ma and Pa with the BM while they prepare the frog song), maybe Onoki, Kakashi and Deidara (the first can Jinton the beast, the second can Kamui his face and the third can go airborne for be able to dodge any Bijuudama and then use C4, if they survive long enough).


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## Garcher (Sep 26, 2013)

totsuka gg amaterasu gg itachi solo king gg


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## trance (Sep 26, 2013)

With nothing but brute force, Hashirama and Madara are probably the only ones. 

Hashirama with his Wooden Buddha has bijūdama-level power as it destroyed Madara's Perfect Susanoo and created a massive creater. 

Madara can lay waste to a mountain range with a single slash of his Perfect Susanoo's sword.


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## TheDestroyer (Sep 26, 2013)

blk said:


> With raw power: Madara, Hashirama, Naruto and Minato.
> 
> Via suppression: Madara, Hashirama, Obito, Itachi and Sasuke.
> 
> Via hax/particular abilities: Muu (invisibility + Jinton to the face), Nagato (Preta Path), Kisame, Naruto (he should be able to protect Ma and Pa with the BM while they prepare the frog song), maybe Onoki, Kakashi and Deidara (the first can Jinton the beast, the second can Kamui his face and the third can go airborne for be able to dodge any Bijuudama and then use C4, if they survive long enough).



How the hell do Muu, Nagato, Kisame, Onoki, Kakashi, or Deidara beat Kyuubi before he roars which is all it takes to destroy them or fires off a continuous BD.


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## Bonly (Sep 26, 2013)

Muu,Onoki,Nagato,Kakashi,Deidara,Madara,Sasuke, Itachi and Hashi. That's all that comes to my mind as of now.


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## Trojan (Sep 26, 2013)

does it even die?


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## SSMG (Sep 26, 2013)

Hashirama via giant buddha
Madara via PS
These two could kill kurama before kurama can kill them.... the rest are toss ups

Oonki and Muu via jiinton
sasuke and itachi via amatersaru snipe
kakashi via kamui snipe his face off.


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## Bookworm (Sep 26, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Danzo probably could. If Not there's always Obito.


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## Blu-ray (Sep 26, 2013)

Amaterasu could burn it down, so Itachi and Sasuke. Shinsusenju and probably PS can stomp on it until it gets crushed by raw power. Muu and Onoki could always Jinton it to death. Kakashi could warp it's head or neck. Nagato doesn't appear to have the raw power necessary but the Kyuubi is chakra. Absorbing it all is probably possible, and there is always Human path, though I'm not sure how it would affect a Bijuu. Anyone with a technique powerful enough to seal all of Kurama away within a Jinchuurki, and then killing that Jinchuuriki, but I assume this thread is talking about the direct approach. C0 is powerful, so maybe Deidara, only because I'm not sure if C0 is poweful enough to kill Kurama.

So all in all, these who can definitely kill one: Sasuke, Itachi, Kakashi, Muu, Onoki, Hashirama. The first five because they have haxed enough one shot moves, and Hashi because of his overwhelming raw power. Possible are: Madara, only because I'm not sure if PS can do enough to outright kill it, though it is overwhelmingly likely, Nagato, and Deidara.

I don't see anyone else with ways to definitively kill a Bijuu. People like Naruto could cause major damage, and the 3rd Raikage can tie, but I don't know about killing one.


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## BurningVegeta (Sep 26, 2013)

Whatever happened to that fact bijuu cannot die? If damaged and defeated they are simply revived. This came about a couple hundred chapters after we were told if their jinchuuriki dies the bijuu dies, this was thrown out by their revival though.


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## ueharakk (Sep 26, 2013)

BurningVegeta said:


> Whatever happened to that fact bijuu cannot die? If damaged and defeated they are simply revived. This came about a couple hundred chapters after we were told if their jinchuuriki dies the bijuu dies, this was thrown out by their revival though.



I don't see any contradiction.  Just because a bijuu will eventually revive doesn't mean it can't die.  It simply means it just won't stay dead.


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## SSMG (Sep 26, 2013)

To burning vegeta we are obviously talking about people who could would cause kurama to need to be revived.


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## BurningVegeta (Sep 26, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> I don't see any contradiction.  Just because a bijuu will eventually revive doesn't mean it can't die.  It simply means it just won't stay dead.


I'm not saying there is a contradiction - I'm not saying bijuu cannot die. I have a problem with Sasuke and Naruto stopping it from _reviving _itself. Like in the concept of Pok?mon games... Pok?mon faint when their HP reaches 0, they're not actually dead. People are claiming Sasuke and Naruto could _kill_ the Kyubi and I have a problem with that.


SSMG said:


> To burning vegeta we are obviously talking about people who could would cause kurama to need to be revived.


It isn't that clear ..."t_here is a difference between who can kill the Kyubi_" to "_who can defeat the Kyubi_". For example I would assume due to their powers over life and death both Madara and Nagato can kill and put an end to the existence of the Kyubi. While people like Naruto, Sasuke and the likes of the Tsuchikage who can wield Jinton cannot kill the Kyubi but can defeat it and make it need to revive itself later on. My username is also one word.


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## SSMG (Sep 26, 2013)

Wasn't the God of Death only able to seal away half of Kuramas chakra?.... I'm not sure if nagato and madara would be able to completely kill him through that means. But i hear what you on the difference between causing him to need to be revived and completely killing him
Also my bad


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## BurningVegeta (Sep 26, 2013)

SSMG said:


> Wasn't the God of Death only able to seal away half of Kuramas chakra?.... I'm not sure if nagato and madara would be able to completely kill him through that means. But i hear what you on the difference between causing him to need to be revived and completely killing him
> Also my bad


I'm only messing with you friend. 

I didn't mean the death god or sealing! I don't consider sealing a target declares them dead whether it's by the death god or the Sword of Totsuka. 

I meant Jutsu that came from the Outer Path. Also consider the lesser paths - Human Path, where he actually takes the soul from it's victim, Nakara Path too... would the King of Hell not rob Kurama of it's soul; killing it instantly. Considering Kabuto was sure Nagato could steal Naruto's soul killing him and Kurama then using the King of Hell to bring them back when him and Obito needed them. 

Surly Madara could use the Creation of All Things and turn the Kyubi into an object of some kind; or another form of creation like a tree or something.


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## GKY (Sep 26, 2013)

Prime Nagato might (but then again maybe not). Obito, Itachi and Sasuke can (only because they can suppress it). Hashirama's budda can actually just beat it to death. Same with Madara using PS, he might not even need to suppress it.


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## Joakim3 (Sep 27, 2013)

Nagato has the raw power technique to do so, but pulling it off is going to be INSANELY hard due to it's mechanics

He'd need a find way to restrain Kurama long enough for CT to acquire enough mass so Kurama just can't blow it to hell and back the second Nagato throws the core in sky. The only thing that _may_ work is Nagato dropping Cerberus & or Gedo Mazo on Kurama's head and having them restrain him while CT is used and calling it a day that way.

That and pray to his healthy max CT can contain a 100% pissed of Kurama


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## crisler (Sep 27, 2013)

nah i don't think anyone can do that. not even rikudo can.

they die, they'll just be revived.

If such thing was possible then there's no need to worry about juubi. Fact is, bijuus can't die.

If RS could kill them then he'd have killed them after splitting juubi.


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## Samehadaman (Sep 27, 2013)

Kamui head GG.


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## Jak N Blak (Sep 27, 2013)

No one can defeat Lord Kurama.

The son of Father Hagoromo & The Tree of Life Mother Juubi has been blessed with the highest order of spiritual chakras.

Lord Kurama's durability has never been put to the test. Nor has his healing abilities. By scaling...if at half power he was capable of blocking his Mother's Beam of Hell with potentially one of the weakest parts of his body. What can any normal or God-Like man ever hope to accomplish?

The contenders seem to be Madara & Hashirama. Let me shatter your illusions.

Madara - Only thing that can make the Lord budge - Perfect Susanoo.
Now I see many people advocating that the Lord will be Genjutsu'd. How foolish. The Lord has shown much intelligence in the manga and has come up with strategic battle tactics.

Since the times of Master Hashirama...the Lord has been the prisoner of THREE Top Tier shinobi. He has learned MANY things and it would be foolish to believe the Lord does not know he should avoid eye contact when facing an Uchiha. By being the host of Uzumaki Naruto...this fact would have been ingrained in his subconscious mind.

Secondly. How is Perfect Susanoo a threat? Shockwave slashes? You must be joking. Shockwaves are countered by the Lord with shockwaves of his own. Chakra roars from the Lord in Prime condition would have more than enough strength to stop the shockwaves of a Perfect Susanoo attack. If that is too much for you to wrap your mind around, be fair & give the Lord's thunderous voice of Thor to atleast significantly cushion the attack from having any considerable effect.

So lets put it together. Are any of you going to argue to ME...
That the Lord cannot survive Perfect Susanoo with a triple-threat defense of Roars that can send 5 Tailed Beast flying casually at half power + with Tails that can stop JuubiBeam + A Healing factor that rivals the Hulk?
Plus its not as if the Lord is slow and forced to remain stationary. This is a Lion vs A MAN with a machete. Pfft.
"Oh Perfect Susanoo can cut MOUNTAINS!"
Naruto's basic Rasengan can destroy a metal cylinder yet do nothing to a human body. Enough SAID.

As for Hashirama - Sage Mode or go home. Its as simple as that.
Madara was clearly unaware of what Lord is capable of.

At half power that Lord has been casually firing of Super Tailed Beast Bombs as quickly as I spit.
Naruto sends one Hashirama's way for him to juggle and die.


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## Blu-ray (Sep 27, 2013)

BurningVegeta said:


> Whatever happened to that fact bijuu cannot die? If damaged and defeated they are simply revived. This came about a couple hundred chapters after we were told if their jinchuuriki dies the bijuu dies, this was thrown out by their revival though.



They can die. They just don't stay dead. Just because they revive, it doesn't mean they cannot die. Just like how Kakashi was dead, but he was revived by Rinne Tensei. He was indeed dead, but he came back.


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## Joakim3 (Sep 27, 2013)

Jak N Blak said:


> No one can defeat Lord Kurama.
> 
> The son of Father Hagoromo & The Tree of Life Mother Juubi has been blessed with the highest order of spiritual chakras.



Lets stop the wanking Jak



Jak N Blak said:


> Lord Kurama's durability has never been put to the test. Nor has his healing abilities. By scaling...if at half power he was capable of blocking his Mother's Beam of Hell with potentially one of the weakest parts of his body. What can any normal or God-Like man ever hope to accomplish?
> 
> The contenders seem to be Madara & Hashirama. Let me shatter your illusions.



You mean after a 50% Kurama was downed by a single FRS? or a 100% Kurama and NEEDED Madara's PS protection & it's own _Renzuki Bijudama_ not to be beat into a 2 mile deep crater from _Shinshensenju_

Let me shatter your illusion...... Hashriama beat a 100% Kurama with the aid of EMS Madara. Dat Logic 



Jak N Blak said:


> Madara - Only thing that can make the Lord budge - Perfect Susanoo. Now I see many people advocating that the Lord will be Genjutsu'd. How foolish. The Lord has shown much intelligence in the manga and has come up with strategic battle tactics.



Please explain how Kurama stops himself from being Genjutsu foddered? Last time I checked he doesn't have clones and avoid eye contact with Madara out of all people is kind of impossible



Jak N Blak said:


> Since the times of Master Hashirama...the Lord has been the prisoner of THREE Top Tier shinobi. He has learned MANY things and it would be foolish to believe the Lord does not know he should avoid eye contact when facing an Uchiha. By being the host of Uzumaki Naruto...this fact would have been ingrained in his subconscious mind.



Agan *HOW* does Kurama avoid eye contact 



Jak N Blak said:


> Secondly. How is Perfect Susanoo a threat? Shockwave slashes? You must be joking. Shockwaves are countered by the Lord with shockwaves of his own. Chakra roars from the Lord in Prime condition would have more than enough strength to stop the shockwaves of a Perfect Susanoo attack. If that is too much for you to wrap your mind around, be fair & give the Lord's thunderous voice of Thor to atleast significantly cushion the attack from having any considerable effect.



.........Kurama countering PS slashes with a roar 

Tendo's boss sized _Shinra Tensei_ was *literally* on the order of a magnitude stronger than Naruto's BM roar seeing it chucked similar sized opponents +10x further with lasting effects to boot, and that was a half dead Nagato dividing his chakra between Gakido & Tendo.... and even that comes *nowhere* near the power to match a single PS swing

A casual one handed PS sword slash is calced at 91 MT of  energy not explosive... i.e that entire force is focused on the sword tip/edge

If Kurama doesn't dodge.... he is butchered if not cleaved in fucking two from a couple of direct hits, as unlike BM Naruto/Minato's Avatars he is not a 100% chakra construct 



Jak N Blak said:


> So lets put it together. Are any of you going to argue to ME...
> That the Lord cannot survive Perfect Susanoo with a triple-threat defense of Roars that can send 5 Tailed Beast flying casually at half power + with Tails that can stop JuubiBeam + A Healing factor that rivals the Hulk?
> Plus its not as if the Lord is slow and forced to remain stationary. This is a Lion vs A MAN with a machete. Pfft.
> "Oh Perfect Susanoo can cut MOUNTAINS!"
> Naruto's basic Rasengan can destroy a metal cylinder yet do nothing to a human body. Enough SAID.



Yes....  Naruto's basic _Rasengan_ has literally one shotted every character that ins't Obito when connected (it does internal damage btw)



Jak N Blak said:


> As for Hashirama - Sage Mode or go home. Its as simple as that.
> Madara was clearly unaware of what Lord is capable of.
> 
> At half power that Lord has been casually firing of Super Tailed Beast Bombs as quickly as I spit.
> Naruto sends one Hashirama's way for him to juggle and die.



Before or after Hashriama drops _Senpō: Myōjinmon_ on him 












Oh and to troll..... Sasuke or Itachi one shot with _Amaterasu_ while sipping tea as Kurama flails for the next 7 days and I'm not even going to touch on people like BSM Naruto or Edo Minato/Nagato


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## Ersa (Sep 27, 2013)

Scaling BM Naruto's durability to the Kyuubi is wrong I feel, perfect Jinns are much stronger then their Bijuu by themselves.

As for who can kill the Kyuubi.
- Madara - Mokuton spam to restrict him then beat it to death with Perfect Susanoo.
- Hashirama - Multiple Wood Dragon + Buddha
- Obito (Rinnegan) - Control it via MS and have his paths nuke it with TBB.
- BM Naruto - 
- BM Minato - 

Very doubtful but Edo Nagato may have the capacity too depending on how much stronger his full power CT is compared to Deva.


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## Van Konzen (Sep 27, 2013)

Minato wasnt able to defeat Kurama..

and I cant think of how Minato could legitimately defeat the Kyuubi.. 
when he should have done it before..


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## BurningVegeta (Sep 27, 2013)

*@VolatileSoul @Jak N Blak*



Jak N Blak said:


> The contenders seem to be Madara & Hashirama. Let me shatter your illusions.


I consider this a challenge and I gladly accept your attempt to shatter everything you put your hand to.



> Madara - Only thing that can make the Lord budge - Perfect Susanoo.
> Now I see many people advocating that the Lord will be Genjutsu'd. How foolish. The Lord has shown much intelligence in the manga and has come up with strategic battle tactics.
> 
> Since the times of Master Hashirama...the Lord has been the prisoner of THREE Top Tier shinobi. He has learned MANY things and it would be foolish to believe the Lord does not know he should avoid eye contact when facing an Uchiha. By being the host of Uzumaki Naruto...this fact would have been ingrained in his subconscious mind.


I am slightly worried in how you imagine Kurama will avoid himself being trapped within a genjutsu after it has happened three times. Madara did it upon using him to fight Hashirama, Obitio controlled him in his attack on Konoha and Sasuke actually managed to subdue and relinquish his presence inside Naruto. You are assuming the Kyubi has increased it's intelligence and has gathered enough of it to avoid being targeted by a Sharingan user. There is no such evidence, you remember Kurama saying he would rather Naruto use him than Madara... the Kyubi didn't have a choice, he would either be used by Naruto and aid him in defeating Madara or Madara would defeat Naruto and take the Kyubi. The Kyubi knows this and thus helped Naruto.



> Secondly. How is Perfect Susanoo a threat? Shockwave slashes? You must be joking. Shockwaves are countered by the Lord with shockwaves of his own. Chakra roars from the Lord in Prime condition would have more than enough strength to stop the shockwaves of a Perfect Susanoo attack. If that is too much for you to wrap your mind around, be fair & give the Lord's thunderous voice of Thor to atleast significantly cushion the attack from having any considerable effect.


I'm with you on the Perfected Susanoo front, I doubt it would do much to injure the Kyubi. Although Uchiha Madara did deem it necessary for him to protect the Nine-tailed Fox with the Perfected Susanoo armour when fighting Hashirama's Sage Art: Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands. Something we see in the latest chapters of the manga is equal to Madara's Susanoo.



> So lets put it together. Are any of you going to argue to ME...
> That the Lord cannot survive Perfect Susanoo with a triple-threat defense of Roars that can send 5 Tailed Beast flying casually at half power + with Tails that can stop JuubiBeam + A Healing factor that rivals the Hulk?
> Plus its not as if the Lord is slow and forced to remain stationary. This is a Lion vs A MAN with a machete. Pfft.
> "Oh Perfect Susanoo can cut MOUNTAINS!"
> Naruto's basic Rasengan can destroy a metal cylinder yet do nothing to a human body. Enough SAID.


Calm down dude, the Kyubi has shown 0% healing factor. Naruto has through being the beast's jinchuuriki - let's not assume the Kyubi has the same or more. Comparing it to the Hulk is pretty stupid; considering some people didn't even know the Hulk has regeneration. I have no qualms with you saying the Perfect Susanoo doesn't have the offense to carry out Kurama's defeat but I do think you are overcompensating it's defensive qualities. What happens if Madara summons a collaboration of  Mokuton Dragon(s) and then attacks an unconscious Kyubi?



> As for Hashirama - Sage Mode or go home. Its as simple as that.
> Madara was clearly unaware of what Lord is capable of.
> 
> At half power that Lord has been casually firing of Super Tailed Beast Bombs as quickly as I spit.
> Naruto sends one Hashirama's way for him to juggle and die.


How can you say that when this happened? Hashirama is able to catch this Super Tailed Beast Bombs with the Buddah's hands. If it's hands can tank these blasts then logically assuming so can it's body. I believe you are mistaken when announcing Madara and Hashirama would be unable to _defeat _the Kyubi (not kill - defeat).


VolatileSoul said:


> They can die. They just don't stay dead. Just because they revive, it doesn't mean they cannot die. Just like how Kakashi was dead, but he was revived by Rinne Tensei. He was indeed dead, but he came back.


VolatileSoul, when she was a jinchuuriki, Kushina Uzumaki said she if the Kyubi was inside her body and she died it would prevent it from being around for a while. She makes no statements or even implies that the Kyubi would die from her dying. Another example is when the Kyubi warns Sasuke not to kill Naruto, or he will regret it. Later on Princess Tsunade says the exact same thing Kushina says. 

There is a very huge difference from killing something and defeating something. Upon closer inspection of my posts, you'll find I'm not saying the Kyubi cannot die. I'm saying this whole "bijuu revival" subject is invalid because if one defeats the Kyubi or a bijuu to the point it needs to revive itself at a later date it isn't dead and thus was not killed. Kakashi and Renne Tensei is a totally separate event to this. Kakashi didn't revive himself, there was an external force doing the reviving and Kakashi was actually _dead_. Death is death in Naruto and nobody has acknowledged the view that bijuu die and then revive themselves. To kill something would be the absolute end of them and if they are brought to that revival stage, they were never killed.


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## Lyanna (Sep 28, 2013)

Bijuus can be killed and die, however their death's useless because they will be revived again later.

On the question of who could kill Kurama besides Juubito and Rikuudo: SM Hashirama , EMS or Rinnegan Madara, Edo Itachi and Sasuke(Amaterasu and genjutsu), Mu and Ohnoki (Jinton) 

Those who could suppress/defeat Kurama: SM Naruto (giant rasengan barrage), Minato (stalemate though with death reapers seal), Nagato (Rinnegan and the Paths)

I'm not including KM or BSM Naruto, and BM Edo Minato because Kurama's inside them, and I'm assuming 1 on 1 vs Kurama battle here.


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## Jak N Blak (Sep 28, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Lets stop the wanking Jak



No. Lets give Lord Kurama the respect he deserves.



> You mean after a 50% Kurama was downed by a single FRS? or a 100% Kurama and NEEDED Madara's PS protection & it's own _Renzuki Bijudama_ not to be beat into a 2 mile deep crater from _Shinshensenju_



The Lord 3rd Raikage'd the FRS. But it's 50% Kurama anyway so it holds no relevance. Trying to use what happens to 50% Kurama as way to downplay the Lord at Prime is foolish. Its as bad as using what happens to Madara's legged Susanoo to downplay Perfect Susanoo.

Their size differences are too great. I don't even know why the living half of Kurama is considered to be 50%! More looks like 25% to me...

Also, the Lord didn't need anything from Madara. Perfect Susanoo DID NOT cover the entirety of Lord Kurama when the BijuuDama exploded. 
- Mistranslation.

You people need to notice these small details which make a BIG difference!
*Lord Kurama's face was unprotected and he showed absolutely no sign of fatigue.*. Of all places, his face should have been the place that needed to most protection.

I see no missing teeth! I see no missing hair! I see no missing eyeballs!
Lord Kurama tanked that shit gloriously. I expected no less from him.



> Let me shatter your illusion...... Hashriama beat a 100% Kurama with the aid of EMS Madara. Dat Logic



He...did not. Lord Kurama absolutely stripped Budha of its primary offense by the time he was put to 'sleep.' Budha had no arms left.

Once the Lord was put to sleep...tell me...what could Hashirama do to 'kill' Kurama at this point?
Throw him over a mountain or something? One attack of any kind would have just awoken the Lord again.

Respect Lord Kurama's power as Hashirama did! Begging him to conceal his power from the world.





> Please explain how Kurama stops himself from being Genjutsu foddered? Last time I checked he doesn't have clones and avoid eye contact with Madara out of all people is kind of impossible



The Lord has sensory. The fuck.



> Agan *HOW* does Kurama avoid eye contact



See above.



> .........Kurama countering PS slashes with a roar
> 
> Tendo's boss sized _Shinra Tensei_ was *literally* on the order of a magnitude stronger than Naruto's BM roar seeing it chucked similar sized opponents +10x further with lasting effects to boot, and that was a half dead Nagato dividing his chakra between Gakido & Tendo.... and even that comes *nowhere* near the power to match a single PS swing



We are discussing 100% Kurama!
Not 50% dammit.



> A casual one handed PS sword slash is calced at 91 MT of  energy not explosive... i.e that entire force is focused on the sword tip/edge
> 
> If Kurama doesn't dodge.... he is butchered if not cleaved in fucking two from a couple of direct hits, as unlike BM Naruto/Minato's Avatars he is not a 100% chakra construct



Today we have discovered Lord Kurama can survive his own BijuuDama thanks to my diligent research. Kurama needs no roar at this point. He straight up tanks without a doubt in my mind. He has two of the best tanking feats in this manga at this point.

- Surviving JuubiBeam with Tails.
- Surviving his own BijuuDama without a single mark being left on his face or any signs of fatigue.



> Yes....  Naruto's basic _Rasengan_ has literally one shotted every character that ins't Obito when connected (it does internal damage btw)



The POINT I was trying to make was that we have countless examples of attacks that can level MOUNTAINS doing absolutely NOTHING to being with chakra flowing through their veins to every cell in their body.

What Madara can do to a mountain holds no weight towards a being at the stature of Lord Kurama.



> Before or after Hashriama drops _Senpō: Myōjinmon_ on him



Choose your poison sir. Is Hashirama trying to suppress Kurama or kill him here?

Hashirama's "restraint" attacks all required keen focus or else they lose all strength and become weak as confirmed by Gyuuki. Don't even advocate the idea that he's going to spawn Budha(The only thing with a remote chance of breaking a bone in the Lord's body) while holding Kurama down with these. Its one or the other.



> Oh and to troll..... Sasuke or Itachi one shot with _Amaterasu_ while sipping tea as Kurama flails for the next 7 days and I'm not even going to touch on people like BSM Naruto or Edo Minato/Nagato



Lord Kurama is easily the same size as Juubi V2.

COFRS + Ama...was as small as Juubi's forehead at best. 
Gyuuki managed to raise its Tails in time to block Sasuke's Amaterasu. What took Gyuuki all his Tails to block will only take the Lord one Tails because of his massive size.

Gyuuki isn't even a confirmed sensory at yet he attempted to react to Amaterasu. SMH.
Not going for the panel. Just find the fight where Sasuke fired it at Bee. Its right there on the first page.

There will be 3 panels. One with Gyuuki's whole body.
Then one with a zoomed in picture.
Then one with his TAILS COMING IN TO BLOCK whatever was coming to him.

After the fight is done, Kurama claws his Tail off and wait for it to regenerate in a secluded mountain on the island in the Whirlpool while visiting Rikudo's grave.










BurningVegeta said:


> I consider this a challenge and I gladly accept your attempt to shatter everything you put your hand to.
> 
> I am slightly worried in how you imagine Kurama will avoid himself being trapped within a genjutsu after it has happened three times. Madara did it upon using him to fight Hashirama, Obitio controlled him in his attack on Konoha and Sasuke actually managed to subdue and relinquish his presence inside Naruto. You are assuming the Kyubi has increased it's intelligence and has gathered enough of it to avoid being targeted by a Sharingan user. There is no such evidence, you remember Kurama saying he would rather Naruto use him than Madara... the Kyubi didn't have a choice, he would either be used by Naruto and aid him in defeating Madara or Madara would defeat Naruto and take the Kyubi. The Kyubi knows this and thus helped Naruto.
> 
> ...



Forgive me dear but the Jak has his limits. I love Lord Kurama but not that much. I can't defend him anymore.


----------



## SSMG (Sep 28, 2013)

Yo jak that link you posted show kuramas face completely covered in the PS armour. bottom right panel dude.


----------



## Jak N Blak (Sep 28, 2013)

Perfect Susanoo was incapable of completely covering Kurama before the BijuuDama went off is what I was trying to point out.


----------



## SSMG (Sep 28, 2013)

Oh yes my mistake then.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Sep 28, 2013)

Hashirama
Madara
Current Obito
Itachi/Sasuke
KN0 Kakashi
Tsuchikage Duo
BSM Naruto (possibly)


----------



## BurningVegeta (Sep 29, 2013)

Can anyone get me some _proof _where someone claims they can "kill" a Bijuu or someone saying that Bijuu die? Any kind of proof will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Jagger (Sep 29, 2013)

BurningVegeta said:


> Can anyone get me some _proof _where someone claims they can "kill" a Bijuu or someone saying that Bijuu die? Any kind of proof will be greatly appreciated.


You're welcome.


----------



## BurningVegeta (Sep 30, 2013)

Jagger said:


> You're welcome.


Error, Jagger... I know that page well. The only person who talked about dying here was _Kushina Uzumaki_ and it is obvious she is talking about herself. Thus why she said _her death_ would _stop _it for a while, therefore it must have still been present. There is no talk about the death of the Kyubi here. 


There is no proof, anywhere... because the concept is currently void unless you start talking about the Outer Path.


----------



## Kai (Sep 30, 2013)

BurningVegeta said:


> Error, Jagger... I know that page well. The only person who talked about dying here was _Kushina Uzumaki_ and it is obvious she is talking about herself. Thus why she said _her death_ would _stop _it for a while, therefore it must have still been present. There is no talk about the death of the Kyubi here.
> 
> 
> There is no proof, anywhere... because the concept is currently void unless you start talking about the Outer Path.




Kushina said her death would stop Kurama for a while because it stops him from spawning for a while. It doesn't stop his actual death, but the death is not a permanent phenomenon.


----------



## Coppur (Sep 30, 2013)

Hashirama and Madara are the only ones I can think of that really seem that over-overbearingly powerful enough to defeat Kurama, possibly Nagato, and finally as seen in the Kushina flashback, Minato is able to stalemate it. However, I imagine Itachi, Sasuke, or Obito, not because they have the raw power to do so but rather the sharingan's ability to control Kurama.


----------



## BurningVegeta (Sep 30, 2013)

Kai said:


> Kushina said her death would stop Kurama for a while because it stops him from spawning for a while.


This isn't Halo 3, her death would stop it because of the time the Kyubi would need to build up it's chakra again. Like Tsunade said in that time they would find a new host, so it must be around physically still; it just isn't able to fuck up shit.





> It doesn't stop his actual death, but the death is not a permanent phenomenon.



...is the fox questioning Naruto, something he knows that isn't true? I'm pretty sure he is. Bearing in mind Naruto knows hardly anything about being a jinchuuriki and hardly anything about bijuu. You're taking it out of context, the nine-tails at this point in the manga would also lend Naruto his chakra in hopes of influencing him and making him act on his dark nature. Like many have said later on with the nine-tails chakra comes the nine-tails' will. 

Also this comment by the Kyubi himself who would know about everything his dying and revival negates the stupid comment Naruto makes in Part I. If Naruto died, the Kyubi is telling Sasuke he wouldn't die because he'll surely make him regret it.


----------



## Kai (Sep 30, 2013)

Can defeat only
Mangekyo users (Itachi, Sasuke, Tobi, Shisui)
Minato

Can defeat and kill
Juubi Jin Tobi
Hashirama
Madara
Mito/Kushina
BSM Naruto



			
				BurningVegeta said:
			
		

> ...is the fox questioning Naruto, something he knows that isn't true? I'm pretty sure he is. Bearing in mind Naruto knows hardly anything about being a jinchuuriki and hardly anything about bijuu. You're taking it out of context, the nine-tails at this point in the manga would also lend Naruto his chakra in hopes of influencing him and making him act on his dark nature. Like many have said later on with the nine-tails chakra comes the nine-tails' will.
> 
> Also this comment by the Kyubi himself who would know about everything his dying and revival negates the stupid comment Naruto makes in Part I. If Naruto died, the Kyubi is telling Sasuke he wouldn't die because he'll surely make him regret it.


Kyuubi remarked how Naruto had guts to threaten him like that. Or to quote for greater meaning: "_To threaten me like this...What guts." _ Obviously the bijuu dies along with its jinchuuriki and this is reinforced in the Kyuubi attack flashback.

Naruto 'threatened' Kyuubi and Kyuubi responded by giving him chakra. That has nothing to do with Kyuubi wanting to turn Naruto dark. That kind of relationship is explored much later in the manga.

Also, Kyuubi says Sasuke will regret killing Naruto but how that regret will be expressed is not revealed. Kyuubi said nothing of himself causing Sasuke's regret.


----------



## BurningVegeta (Sep 30, 2013)

Kai said:


> Can defeat only
> Mangekyo users (Itachi, Sasuke, Tobi, Shisui)
> Minato
> 
> ...


...your list makes no sense to me. Nagato should be on there, if you're still clinging to the theory jinchuuriki can kill their tailed-beasts, then there is no point responding this.



> Kyuubi remarked how Naruto had guts to threaten him like that. Or to quote for greater meaning: "_To threaten me like this...What guts." _
> 
> Naruto 'threatened' Kyuubi and Kyuubi responded by giving him chakra. That has nothing to do with Kyuubi wanting to turn Naruto dark. That kind of relationship is explored much later in the manga.


If you think Naruto at this level or any level in Part I has the power to scare, intimidate or threaten Kurama then you are reading a different manga to me. Naruto had the courage to do so and if anything that impressed Kurama, Naruto could have said anything like "if you don't give me your chakra I'll never ask for your power again" and Kurama undoubtedly would have said the same thing.


----------



## Kai (Sep 30, 2013)

BurningVegeta said:


> ...your list makes no sense to me. Nagato should be on there, if you're still clinging to the theory jinchuuriki can kill their tailed-beasts, then there is no point responding this.


Nagato thought half the power of Kurama at the eighth tail was simply amazing. He gets absolutely wrecked by complete Kurama's physical attacks with nothing except Shinra Tensei and its five second liability to cushion his damages.



			
				BurningVegeta said:
			
		

> If you think Naruto at this level or any level in Part I has the power to scare, intimidate or threaten Kurama then you are reading a different manga to me. Naruto had the courage to do so and if anything that impressed Kurama, Naruto could have said anything like "if you don't give me your chakra I'll never ask for your power again" and Kurama undoubtedly have said the same thing.


Kurama's not even scared of Naruto, he just doesn't want to die. Apparently it really sucks despite their rebirth process.

You're adding more to the manga and by result distorting it. Here's what happened.

>Naruto encounters Kyuubi because he's about to die.
>Naruto threatens Kyuubi and shows balls
>Kyuubi rhetorically asks "If you die I'll die too eh?" and remarks about his guts to "threaten him like this.."
>Result? Kyuubi gives Naruto chakra.

Kyuubi could care less about Naruto to "see him turn dark" or whatever suggestion that is too early in their relationship to even conceive. Kyuubi gave Naruto chakra because he didn't want to die, and that's how direct their first encounter with each other was.


----------



## Joakim3 (Sep 30, 2013)

Jak N Blak said:


> No. Lets give Lord Kurama the respect he deserves.



Yeah that 5-6 people can kill him, which is top 1%, thats enough respect in my book



Jak N Blak said:


> The Lord 3rd Raikage'd the FRS. But it's 50% Kurama anyway so it holds no relevance. Trying to use what happens to 50% Kurama as way to downplay the Lord at Prime is foolish. Its as bad as using what happens to Madara's legged Susanoo to downplay Perfect Susanoo.



Sure it is.... seeing a Perfect Jinchurki is *canonically* more powerful than the full Biju



Jak N Blak said:


> Their size differences are too great. I don't even know why the living half of Kurama is considered to be 50%! More looks like 25% to me...



Argue the size with kishi, Naruto & Minato have 50% of Kurama's full chakra, so Kurama would logically only be 2x as powerful in terms of destructive strength as either



Jak N Blak said:


> Also, the Lord didn't need anything from Madara. Perfect Susanoo DID NOT cover the entirety of Lord Kurama when the BijuuDama exploded.
> - * faster ones.*



The fact that Madara felt the need to put PS infront of Kurama makes your entire comment irrelevant. If Kurama was so durable he would have simply stood under him and Kurama just trolled tanked it.



Jak N Blak said:


> You people need to notice these small details which make a BIG difference!
> *Lord Kurama's face was unprotected and he showed absolutely no sign of fatigue.*. Of all places, his face should have been the place that needed to most protection.



Um Madara had literally just finished covering Kurama in PS... the next panel his face is covered. Stop grasping for straws and cherry picking



Jak N Blak said:


> I see no missing teeth! I see no missing hair! I see no missing eyeballs!
> Lord Kurama tanked that shit gloriously. I expected no less from him.



Kurama tanked it becuase PS took the ENTIRE brunt of the damage. It was literally stripped off of Kurama by the time Hashirama picked him up like a chiuwawa



Jak N Blak said:


> He...did not. Lord Kurama absolutely stripped Budha of its primary offense by the time he was put to 'sleep.' Budha had no arms left.



Um those Bijudama would have been sent *right back* at Kurama if Madara did not put PS swords in them (so they couldn't be caught).... so no, Kurama would have been wipped of the map by _Shinshensenju_ & all 11 of his own _Renzuki Bijudama_ 

Good luck tanking that shit



Jak N Blak said:


> Once the Lord was put to sleep...tell me...what could Hashirama do to 'kill' Kurama at this point?
> Throw him over a mountain or something? One attack of any kind would have just awoken the Lord again.
> 
> Respect Lord Kurama's power as Hashirama did! Begging him to conceal his power from the world.



It's a suppression attack? If Hashirama can supress Kurama he would never wake up regardless of whats being done to hime :face palm

And Im sure growing forcing a forest out of Kurama's body and skin would kill him



Jak N Blak said:


> The Lord has sensory. The fuck.



Again EXPLAIN IN WORDS how that helps to avoid eye contact, because last time I checked emotion sensing does't work like SM or Nagato's sensing which focus on chakra build up



Jak N Blak said:


> See above.



You see above



Jak N Blak said:


> We are discussing 100% Kurama!
> Not 50% dammit.



Which would only have twice as less chakra, and be less durable than Naruto's 100% chakra constructed Avatar



Jak N Blak said:


> Today we have discovered Lord Kurama can survive his own BijuuDama thanks to my diligent research. Kurama needs no roar at this point. He straight up tanks without a doubt in my mind. He has two of the best tanking feats in this manga at this point.
> 
> - Surviving JuubiBeam with Tails.
> - Surviving his own BijuuDama without a single mark being left on his face or any signs of fatigue.



BM Naruto is more powerful than Kurama so your argument is invalid 

Madara protected him with PS... so one again your argument is invalid



Jak N Blak said:


> The POINT I was trying to make was that we have countless examples of attacks that can level MOUNTAINS doing absolutely NOTHING to being with chakra flowing through their veins to every cell in their body.
> 
> What Madara can do to a mountain holds no weight towards a being at the stature of Lord Kurama.



Obviously Kurama felt pain when Gamabunta was dropped on his face via Minato.... no multiply that force by several hundread thousand via a km long blade x4 for the number of swords/hands madara has x how many times Madara decides to swing PS arms

Your wanking as usual



Jak N Blak said:


> Choose your poison sir. Is Hashirama trying to suppress Kurama or kill him here?
> 
> Hashirama's "restraint" attacks all required keen focus or else they lose all strength and become weak as confirmed by Gyuuki. Don't even advocate the idea that he's going to spawn Budha(The only thing with a remote chance of breaking a bone in the Lord's body) while holding Kurama down with these. Its one or the other.



... I'm not even going to respond do this



Jak N Blak said:


> Lord Kurama is easily the same size as Juubi V2.



No he is not, as PS is still _significantly_ larger than 100% Kurama, of which V2 Juubi is still larger....



Jak N Blak said:


> COFRS + Ama...was as small as Juubi's forehead at best.
> Gyuuki managed to raise its Tails in time to block Sasuke's Amaterasu. What took Gyuuki all his Tails to block will only take the Lord one Tails because of his massive size.
> 
> Gyuuki isn't even a confirmed sensory at yet he attempted to react to Amaterasu. SMH.
> Not going for the panel. Just find the fight where Sasuke fired it at Bee. Its right there on the first page.



Then Sasuke or Itachi just aim it his face.... or the former uses _Enton_ to casually spread it

We saw how hard Killer B failed at defending against Sasuke's first time usage _Amaterasu_, Kurama isn't any different. 

Try again...



Jak N Blak said:


> There will be 3 panels. One with Gyuuki's whole body.
> Then one with a zoomed in picture.
> Then one with his TAILS COMING IN TO BLOCK whatever was coming to him.
> 
> ...



Or 




Sasuke continues to ignite and spam _Kirin_ when he attempts to run via CS2 Powered _Amaterasu_


----------



## BurningVegeta (Sep 30, 2013)

Kai said:


> Nagato thought half the power of Kurama at the eighth tail was simply amazing. He gets absolutely wrecked by complete Kurama's physical attacks with nothing except Shinra Tensei and its five second liability to cushion his damages.


Nagato wanted to capture the Kyubi not kill it, what are you talking about?




> Kurama's not even scared of Naruto, he just doesn't want to die. Apparently it really sucks despite their rebirth process.


If that is true, why did Naruto approach the Kyubi and not the other way around? ...or why didn't the Kyubi just release his chakra freely for Naruto to use?



> You're adding more to the manga and by result distorting it. Here's what happened.


I know what is going on and in context of the entirety of the manga I'm correct and you are wrong. You can't just pick and choose parts of this story that apply to what you're saying. You should be and need to look at the whole story. 



> >Naruto encounters Kyuubi because he's about to die.
> >Naruto threatens Kyuubi and shows balls
> >Kyuubi rhetorically asks "If you die I'll die too eh?" and remarks about his guts to "threaten him like this.."
> >Result? Kyuubi gives Naruto chakra.


That doesn't confirm the Kyubi confirming he'll die if Naruto dies though. Although the conversation went that way, a few chapters later we don't see them interact at all - yet Naruto still draws on the tailed-beast chakra and the result is the same. 



> Kyuubi could care less about Naruto to "see him turn dark" or whatever suggestion that is too early in their relationship to even conceive. Kyuubi gave Naruto chakra because he didn't want to die, and that's how direct their first encounter with each other was.


Like I said don't pick and chose. If the manga was released in it's entirety for us to read instead of being produced to us every week, you wouldn't be saying things like the Kyubi wasn't trying to influence Naruto. The Kyubi wanted Naruto to give into his darkside, period. Like I said you cannot pick and chose, it all makes sense if only you opened up your perceptions of it and allowed it to.


----------



## Nikushimi (Sep 30, 2013)

Hashirama or Madara could do it pretty easily with Shinsuusenju and Perfect Susano'o, respectively. They can also suppress/control the Kyuubi, which makes the task almost effortless for them.

Itachi and Sasuke could do it with Amaterasu, but would most likely be killed with Bijuudama before the Kyuubi burns to death.

I have mixed feelings about Oonoki and Muu; I feel like Jinton should be able to kill the Kyuubi, but I don't think they have any chance of getting it off before they are killed. Unlike the Uchiha Bros., they don't have Susano'o, so even something like a roar from the Kyuubi is going to leave them badly injured.

The 3rd Raikage could probably do it with his one-finger Nukite if he landed a number of direct hits to carve out a vital spot, but I just don't see him pulling it off unless the Kyuubi simply stands there and allows it.


----------



## Kai (Oct 1, 2013)

BurningVegeta said:


> Nagato wanted to capture the Kyubi not kill it, what are you talking about?


We saw the height of Pain's powers, and if he wanted any shot at capturing the Kyuubi manifestations he would have to fight to kill, i.e bring out his trump cards. Suigetsu stressed this idea to Sasuke when they faced Bee's Bijuu Mode. Also consider the fact that this is only half of the full Kurama.



			
				BurningVegeta said:
			
		

> If that is true, why did Naruto approach the Kyubi and not the other way around? ...or why didn't the Kyubi just release his chakra freely for Naruto to use?


We've seen the Kyuubi release his chakra freely for Naruto when he was unconscious and not even seeking help - this is at a time when Kyuubi doesn't even care about Naruto, but he must do something because his life is linked with Naruto's as a mutual symbiosis.



			
				BurningVegeta said:
			
		

> I know what is going on and in context of the entirety of the manga I'm correct and you are wrong. You can't just pick and choose parts of this story that apply to what you're saying. You should be and need to look at the whole story.


You're assuming Kyuubi didn't mean what he said when his actions enforce the heart of his words.

What consequences would a bijuu face if they didn't die when their host bit the dust? They are sharing the same body.



			
				BurningVegeta said:
			
		

> That doesn't confirm the Kyubi confirming he'll die if Naruto dies though. Although the conversation went that way, a few chapters later we don't see them interact at all - yet Naruto still draws on the tailed-beast chakra and the result is the same.


That instance and introduction between them was Jiraiya's training for Naruto to be able to draw upon the Kyuubi's chakra. All jinchuuriki have been shown to draw upon their bijuu's power in one form or another.

Honestly, the Kyuubi would not give his chakra to Naruto if there weren't dire consequences waiting for him if he hadn't. He displayed no change in his opinion on humans as a discernible whole until Naruto achieved KCM and entered the war.



			
				BurningVegeta said:
			
		

> Like I said don't pick and chose. If the manga was released in it's entirety for us to read instead of being produced to us every week, you wouldn't be saying things like the Kyubi wasn't trying to influence Naruto. The Kyubi wanted Naruto to give into his darkside, period. Like I said you cannot pick and chose, it all makes sense if only you opened up your perceptions of it and allowed it to.


Except there is no dark side until Naruto enters his primitive tailed states. In the instances of falling into the ravine and fighting against Neji and Gaara, Naruto merely used Kurama's lent chakra and didn't adopt any feral features.


----------



## johnsuwey (Oct 1, 2013)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Hashirama and Madara are the only ones capable of taking it on at the moment. Both of their potential damage outputs in sage mode and perfect Susano'o, respectively, are equal if not even greater than Kurama's and have abilities which allow them to weaken or control it as well. Not to mention the fact that both of them are canonically capable of blocking attacks from Kurama without a huge level of difficulty. Eventually, Sasuke and Naruto should be able to do the same. Sasuke will surpass Madara eventually, and since Naruto is his rival, Naruto would probably follow soon afterwards.



What is this Naruto catching up with sasuke stuff?
Is this a joke?

Their relationship is obviously Goku - Vegetta.


----------



## Jak N Blak (Oct 1, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Yeah that 5-6 people can kill him, which is top 1%, thats enough respect in my book



Kurama is the supreme being...the first villain...the chosen one. He's second ONLY to Juubi.





> Sure it is.... seeing a Perfect Jinchurki is *canonically* more powerful than the full Biju



You are getting confused Joakim. You were talking about NON-JINCHUURIKI 50% Kurama. 




> Argue the size with kishi, Naruto & Minato have 50% of Kurama's full chakra, so Kurama would logically only be 2x as powerful in terms of destructive strength as either



Mass plays a role. Its just a natural by-product. Are you going to tell me that a roar from 100% Kurama will be simply 2x as strong as that of 50% Kurama despite his lung capacity, jaw size and all these attributes physical attributes vastly increasing? 100% Kurama body ALONE allows him to output more than 50% Kurama could at once. That's just basic logic.



> The fact that Madara felt the need to put PS infront of Kurama makes your entire comment irrelevant. If Kurama was so durable he would have simply stood under him and Kurama just trolled tanked it.



Bee sacrificed his Tails to protect BM Naruto from shuriken. 
They are many more countless example of people who didn't need protection from an attack....getting protection regardless. This is just one of them.





> Um Madara had literally just finished covering Kurama in PS... the next panel his face is covered. Stop grasping for straws and cherry picking



What. THINK.
If I were in a bomb suit without my helmet and the bomb went off...what the fuck do you think would have happened to my face? 

TSK!



> Kurama tanked it becuase PS took the ENTIRE brunt of the damage. It was literally stripped off of Kurama by the time Hashirama picked him up like a chiuwawa



Slow up. There was absolutely no way to tell how long ago Susanoo was stripped or began stripping off Kurama during the battle. It was only until the debris settled that Hashirama saw that some parts of it were removed. 





> Um those Bijudama would have been sent *right back* at Kurama if Madara did not put PS swords in them (so they couldn't be caught).... so no, Kurama would have been wipped of the map by _Shinshensenju_ & all 11 of his own _Renzuki Bijudama_



False. BijuuDamas tear through Mokuton like its butter:
Link removed

You can't "catch" them like you're implying. Mokujin swallowed it...not catch...SWALLOWED it and funnelled it right back out. Budha cannot do that. All BijuuDamas it tries to catch will just tear through its arms.




> It's a suppression attack? If Hashirama can supress Kurama he would never wake up regardless of whats being done to hime :face palm



Remind me what method Kisame used to break Yamato's suppression? Oh yeah...biting off his tongue and feeling PAIN.



> And Im sure growing forcing a forest out of Kurama's body and skin would kill him



You are not Hashirama. Do not confuse what you would do with what he would do.
This is so far out of his character I'm lost for words. He didn't grow up watching Saw Movie like you.




> Again EXPLAIN IN WORDS how that helps to avoid eye contact, because last time I checked emotion sensing does't work like SM or Nagato's sensing which focus on chakra build up



Haha. Emotion Sensory works the same way as chakra sensory SIR. Instead of feeling 'chakra' it feels 'emotion.' Not complicated.

Naruto used this Emotion Sensory to ACCURATELY pinpoint thousands of INDIVIDUAL Zetsus.
I have nothing further to say.




> You see above



No, you see above! Lol.



> Which would only have twice as less chakra, and be less durable than Naruto's 100% chakra constructed Avatar



Goble.



> BM Naruto is more powerful than Kurama so your argument is invalid
> 
> Madara protected him with PS... so one again your argument is invalid



Lmao. What a fucking COP-OUT.



> Obviously Kurama felt pain when Gamabunta was dropped on his face via Minato.... no multiply that force by several hundread thousand via a km long blade x4 for the number of swords/hands madara has x how many times Madara decides to swing PS arms



Kurama tanks BijuuDamas so your argument is invalid.

Kurama's Tails block Juubi Laser as half power ...so once again your argument is invalid.




> Your wanking as usual



All my arguments have been sound and have been backed up with evidence. 



> ... I'm not even going to respond do this



Goble.



> No he is not, as PS is still _significantly_ larger than 100% Kurama, of which V2 Juubi is still larger....



Point in the matter: He's large as fuck.





> Then Sasuke or Itachi just aim it his face.... or the former uses _Enton_ to casually spread it
> 
> We saw how hard Killer B failed at defending against Sasuke's first time usage _Amaterasu_, Kurama isn't any different.
> 
> Try again...



Kurama has 9 Tails...9 lives...9 times to block Ama without ISSUE. Bee did NOT fail in blocking it. He SIZE however made him have to use all his tails to block it. Kurama luckily does not have that disadvantage.





> Or
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What the fuck are you talking about.


----------



## Blu-ray (Oct 1, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> What is this Naruto catching up with sasuke stuff?
> Is this a joke?
> 
> Their relationship is obviously Goku - Vegetta.



That's not their relationship at all. Vegeta has never beaten Goku and was always inferior. Naruto's relationship with Sasuke was the same, except reversed. Naruto was always inferior and has yet to pull of a victory against Sasuke.


----------



## BurningVegeta (Oct 1, 2013)

Kai said:


> We saw the height of Pain's powers, and if he wanted any shot at capturing the Kyuubi manifestations he would have to fight to kill, i.e bring out his trump cards. Suigetsu stressed this idea to Sasuke when they faced Bee's Bijuu Mode. Also consider the fact that this is only half of the full Kurama.


No we didn't. The height of Nagato's power is when Nagato is channeling all paths through himself. Besides the true destructive power comes from say Asura Path, the most dangerous power comes from Human Path and the most skill comes from Deva Path. In order to kill something we would likely pick Human Path as this path utilizes the Absorption Soul Technique that automatically kills the victim. Now like I was saying if Pein wanted to kill Naruto Animal Path would have been utilized more effectively instead of being a meatshield.


> We've seen the Kyuubi release his chakra freely for Naruto when he was unconscious and not even seeking help - this is at a time when Kyuubi doesn't even care about Naruto, but he must do something because his life is linked with Naruto's as a mutual symbiosis.



I'm not going to continue debating with you about bijuu and their jinchuriki. Nothing you have said has convinced me of what you're talking about is true, it is all subjection and your opinions floating around attacking things I've put forward which is nothing more than the manga.

Nobody in the history of Naruto has confirmed bijuu die with their jinchuriki. Nobody... One quote from Naruto is pointless and so many others of more experience and credibility of the bijuu acknowledge they do not die like you suggest. The kyuubi is a wanted creature and he has only ever expressed fear when Uchiha Madara came onto the scene trying to use it again. You have missed the entire relationship of the kyuubi and Naruto and thus it is only natural you haven't understood what has transpired between them. The last time I checked the Kyubi didn't listen to Naruto in Part I and it was confirmed every single time Naruto used the Nine-tails chakra he get's his influence with it in Part II which ultimately negated what you're trying to tell me now. Not until his training with Kirabi has this ever changed. Call yourself the winner or whatever but I'm out - there is no getting through to you.


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## Kai (Oct 1, 2013)

Are you saying there are no consequences for a bijuu when its host dies?

If not, what do you think they are?


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## Jagger (Oct 1, 2013)

>Supreme being.

Got treated like a weapon for Madara, a puppy for Hashirama and nothing more than evil by Mito and Kushina and was converted by a hyperactive 16 years old boy in a jump suit.


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## ueharakk (Oct 1, 2013)

VolatileSoul said:


> That's not their relationship at all. Vegeta has never beaten Goku and was always inferior.


Vegeta was superior to Goku on at least 3 occasions......

1) saiyan saga vegeta is clearly superior to Goku
2) When vegeta obtained SSJ, he became stronger than goku
3) When vegeta obtained USSJ he became way stronger than Goku



VolatileSoul said:


> Naruto's relationship with Sasuke was the same, except reversed. *Naruto was always inferior and has yet to pull of a victory against Sasuke.*


how many times has naruto had a conclusive fight against Sasuke?  Once?  If you want to count skirmishis in which one was handicapped, Naruto beat sasuke before the wave arc.

Then there's things like Rasengan > chidori water tower, naruto defeating gaara while sasuke couldn't do anything but sit on the sidelines, SM Naruto being stated to be superior to MS Sasuke, Sasuke being peeved by merely sensing Naruto's power, and with the recent chapters, sasuke getting mad at naruto merely manifesting Kurama's head.

Sure you could claim that sasuke has been superior to naruto for a good deal of the manga as well, but that's not what the bolded is stating.


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## Joakim3 (Oct 1, 2013)

Jak N Blak said:


> Kurama is the supreme being...the first villain...the chosen one. He's second ONLY to Juubi.



Obviously not when Hashirama  & Madara control him like a puppy



Jak N Blak said:


> You are getting confused Joakim. You were talking about NON-JINCHUURIKI 50% Kurama.



That's fine, it doesn't change the fact BM naruto @50% has better feats



Jak N Blak said:


> Mass plays a role. Its just a natural by-product. Are you going to tell me that a roar from 100% Kurama will be simply 2x as strong as that of 50% Kurama despite his lung capacity, jaw size and all these attributes physical attributes vastly increasing? 100% Kurama body ALONE allows him to output more than 50% Kurama could at once. That's just basic logic.



Ok.... So his roar would no be as powerful as Tendo boss sized _Shinra Tensei_ which is fodder level in the grand power scale



Jak N Blak said:


> Bee sacrificed his Tails to protect BM Naruto from shuriken. They are many more countless example of people who didn't need protection from an attack....getting protection regardless. This is just one of them.



BM Naruto was not in full avatar mode... 

Next point



Jak N Blak said:


> What. THINK.
> If I were in a bomb suit without my helmet and the bomb went off...what the fuck do you think would have happened to my face?
> 
> TSK!



Did you not read he part when Madara covers his face next panel :giogoo



Jak N Blak said:


> Slow up. There was absolutely no way to tell how long ago Susanoo was stripped or began stripping off Kurama during the battle. It was only until the debris settled that Hashirama saw that some parts of it were removed.



Yes there is.... It took the entire Renzuki Bijudama + Shinshensnju assault to strip it completely down. It was the emphasis of the attack






Jak N Blak said:


> False. BijuuDamas tear through Mokuton like its butter:
> 2
> 
> You can't "catch" them like you're implying. Mokujin swallowed it...not catch...SWALLOWED it and funnelled it right back out. Budha cannot do that. All BijuuDamas it tries to catch will just tear through its arms.



So the Bijudama will tear through the arm when you just stated yourself Hashirama countered one in base? 

Just stop Jak




Jak N Blak said:


> Remind me what method Kisame used to break Yamato's suppression? Oh yeah...biting off his tongue and feeling PAIN.



Kisame broke the genjustu via biting his own tounge off, he broke mokuton with pure strength, something Kurama can't do  



Jak N Blak said:


> You are not Hashirama. Do not confuse what you would do with what he would do.
> This is so far out of his character I'm lost for words. He didn't grow up watching Saw Movie like you.



It's more of do what needs to be done basis, seeing the entire scenario is hypothetical one cannot determine what an IC action would be taken as it's a made up scenario. The thread is to kill Kurama, so logic would dictate Hashirama would use what he deems fit that would kill Kurama, and if ripping him apart with mokuton is the only means possible heel do just that



Jak N Blak said:


> Haha. Emotion Sensory works the same way as chakra sensory SIR. Instead of feeling 'chakra' it feels 'emotion.' Not complicated.
> 
> Naruto used this Emotion Sensory to ACCURATELY pinpoint thousands of INDIVIDUAL Zetsus.
> I have nothing further to say.



And yet that helped RM Naruto against Nagato, Biju Pein Rikudo or Edo Madara. It's canon that other types of sensing like SM are just plain better 

Again pinpointing there location helps how in avoiding eye contact? What tech or ability does Kurama have that PREVENTS Madara from making eye contact short of closing his eyes which would be retarded

It's the equivalent of me saying Madara had Sasuno'o so Bijudama won't work *without* explaining why



Jak N Blak said:


> No, you see above! Lol.



No



Jak N Blak said:


> Goble.



Concession accepted



Jak N Blak said:


> Lmao. What a fucking COP-OUT.



It's not a cop-out seeing when the manga canonically goes against your statement 



Jak N Blak said:


> Kurama tanks BijuuDamas so your argument is invalid.
> 
> Kurama's Tails block Juubi Laser as half power ...so once again your argument is invalid.



Kurama tanks bijudamas with PS's protection 

BM NARUTO who is stronger than 100% Kurama tanks juubi lasers, stop applying Naruto's feats to Kurama when the former is canonically stronger




Jak N Blak said:


> All my arguments have been sound and have been backed up with evidence.



Because a chakra roar stopping a PS sword is evidence supported :face palm

Your a worse at trolling than ImSerious was in his prime 



Jak N Blak said:


> Goble.



Concession accepted 



Jak N Blak said:


> Point in the matter: He's large as fuck.



Which means what to Hashirama? If he can do it to Datara he can casually do it to Kurama



Jak N Blak said:


> Kurama has 9 Tails...9 lives...9 times to block Ama without ISSUE. Bee did NOT fail in blocking it. He SIZE however made him have to use all his tails to block it. Kurama luckily does not have that disadvantage.



9 lives.... are you smoking meth or something? 

Gyuki never even reacted Sasuke's first time _Amaterasu_ until after it was covering his face. The fact that Kurama is larger than Gyuki makes it 1000x worse as he's simply a bigger target for Sasuke/Itachi to spam _Amaterasu_ over.

Kurama gets an _Amaterasu_ to the face with or without sensing as he's simply to large and lacks the relevant speed to move out of the Sharingans perception



Jak N Blak said:


> What the fuck are you talking about.



You said Kurama goes into a cave and regenerates, I said Sasuke never lets him make it to said cave


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## Jak N Blak (Oct 1, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Obviously not when Hashirama  & Madara control him like a puppy[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Lord Kurama is eternal. Both men have died and have been brought back as other men's puppets. Hashirama, Madara & Hashirama all have their shames.
> 
> ...


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## J★J♥ (Oct 1, 2013)

*Jinton* GG.
Also Golden Brother should cope too. IDK about Silver bro he sucked a lot.


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## Lurko (Oct 1, 2013)

I could see Rs, Rs' s two sons,Hashi and  Current Madara if he has all the rinnegan's abilities.


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## Lurko (Oct 1, 2013)

Fuck I also forgot  Bsm naruto could as well.


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## BurningVegeta (Oct 1, 2013)

Kai said:


> Are you saying there are no consequences for a bijuu when its host dies?
> 
> If not, what do you think they are?


To be honest what exactly happens to them hasn't be totally revealed but like I have been saying they don't die, they are in an immediate state of revival ...waiting to be revived. That isn't what death is in Naruto, or anywhere. Raikage, Tsunade, Rin perfectly explain this.

I mean you are aware Isobu was revived - if he was so bothered about dying he would have stopped Rin from throwing her life away like you claim the Kurama did to Naruto. After all, Bijuu know the thoughts and feelings of their jinchuriki.


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## Veracity (Oct 1, 2013)

Hola hola. Did someone just say Kisame could break through wood style In base but Kurama can't? When said wood stays was produced from fodder level Yamato?

Did someone say wood style can't catch a BD, when it already canonically happened?

Also, Hashirama>>>>>>Kurama no matter what anybody says. It's common sense.


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## Jak N Blak (Oct 1, 2013)

Look, look. Leave me be. I give in.

No more arguments addressed to me. I am done. To the Telegrams!


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## Joakim3 (Oct 1, 2013)

Jak N Blak said:


> Lord Kurama is eternal. Both men have died and have been brought back as other men's puppets. Hashirama, Madara & Hashirama all have their shames.



Ok.... so you proved Kurama has an unlimited lifespan and humans don't. And Mr. Eternal was treated like a lap dog by both men you named, multiple times during there lives 

Oh... and Kurama himself along with Kushin & Minato confirmed that he can be killed 



Jak N Blak said:


> What are these feats that BM 50% Kurama showcased that 100% Kurama couldn't accomplish? I'm confused SIR.



The onus is on you to prove said feats can be replicated by Kurama, not me. 

*Your* claiming a 100% Kurama can accomplish everything BM/BSM Naruto can do when manga specifically states that the latter surpasses the former in virtually every damn category.



Jak N Blak said:


> Your responses are so confusing.



You said his roar would be more powerful becuase of the increase in size, lungs, mouth etc... etc... , I respond by saying a 100% Kurama's roar would at best be as powerful as Tendo's boss sized _Shinra Tensei_, which is fodder level to a PS swing, which YOU claim a roar can counter

explain how that is confusing?



Jak N Blak said:


> _*They are many more countless example of people who didn't need protection from an attack....getting protection regardless. This is just one of them.*_



Again you have ZERO evidence that Kurama can tank his own Bijudama. The fact Killer B was essentially one shotted by his (after fighting for some) further proves they are not just trolltankable 



Jak N Blak said:


> Did you not see that his face got covered AFTER the BOMB EXPLODED.



Sorry but Madara's Lv4 Sasuno'o was in front of Kurama at detonation  



Jak N Blak said:


> Jesus christ. Is this point that hard to accept? Hahaha.



Lets use some critical thinking here Jak.... 

So your telling me Madara protected Kurama from the initial bijudama impact, stabilized lv4 Sasuno'o into PS only to expose Kurama's face *MID EXPLOSION* for the lols 

How about the more logical thing, where Lv4 tanks the explosion, and Madara follows up with PS + Kurama combo after said explosion has finished, and it's safer to expose Kurama a bit



Jak N Blak said:


> As I said...no way to tell how long ago Susanoo was stripped/began to strip from Kurama during the onslaught.



PS was almost stripped within 6 panels, i'd say common sense would dictate the second Hashirama started chucking several hundred skyscraper sized fist at it along with 11 Bijudama explosions going of back to back to back to back etc...



Jak N Blak said:


> What the fuck is up with these hurried up responses.
> *I said* Mokujin SWALLOWED & funnelled a BijuuDama.
> *You argued* that Mokuton can catch them...
> *I showed you* that BijuuDamas tear through Mokuton.
> ...



Bijudama's tear through the _Mokuton: Mokuryū no Jutsu_ i.e the dragon.... Hashirama *transformerd a mokuto arm* into a _Mokujin_  to counter a Bijudama, not summon the entire being like he did against Edo Madara.  So yes Hashirama can counter them on the fly Jak

If you really think he can't do that with _Shinshensenju_ then we might as well stop "debating" if thats what you want to call "this"



Jak N Blak said:


> The pain gave him the adrenaline rush to gain said strength.



......... Becuase Kurama has the same resolve and same pain tolerance as Kisame, a man who laughed as V2 Killer B exploded his chest open and smiled the entire time Sharks ate him alive. I wouldn't put it past you to say Kurama can casually chop his own arm off like Ei did if that gets hit by _Amaterasu_



Jak N Blak said:


> Stop the foolishness. Its just too OOC.
> 
> Let me entertain the idea. So Hashirama is going to produce enough Mokuton from his BODY to the scale of Kurama who can tower mountains. Show me the fucking feats or drop this nonsense.



Danzo created a 30 foot tree unintentionally from his body with zero focus, and you think Hashriama who has chakra comparable to BM Naruto can't make something Biju size or just call it a day and send a couple branches through Kurama's brain

.... now any more arguments Jak?



Jak N Blak said:


> It took me a while to get why this is so hard for you to understand.
> But I get it. You're trying to argue that the Genjutsu caster just needs to see the users eye to put them in an illusion. Yeah no.
> 
> The victim needs to be looking directly at the caster to fall into the illusion.
> If it worked the way you're implying Gai's method would be completely useless.



Argue that with Itachi who canonically just needs to point at you to put you under a genjutsu 

That being said.... Gai's tactic is great and all when the user has *nothing other than Genjutsu*. Kurama is going to avoid eye contact with Madara only to be cleaved into pieces by PS  since he can't look in Madara's direction without being foddered like a genin

Of course this is discounting Madara being crafty and fast enough to force eye contact like Itachi or Sasuke 



Jak N Blak said:


> Lol. His face was clearly exposed.
> Kurama at 50% is stronger overall but in the context of *durability* SIR...100% is naturally the superior.



Yes becuase Madara is the type of idiot man who opens up _Sasuno'o_ to expose Kurama's face mid explosion, rather than leveling up Sasuno'o after the explosion is finished 

Why do you continuously try to compare a living Kurama who can bleed and feel pain with a 100% BM/BSM Chakra construct Naruto who can tank shit all day via a chakra cloak without so much as flinching.




Jak N Blak said:


> Show me one argument that I presented which can be considered "trolling."



Claiming that no character in the verse can beat him and he's second only to Shinju




Jak N Blak said:


> This part here had to do with your argument above Sasuke & Itachi. FOCUS.



........ok



Jak N Blak said:


> Cool story.



Care to explain on how that doesn't work, since your so confident in your standpoint 



Jak N Blak said:


> Even cooler story.
> 
> 
> 
> > After the fight is done, Kurama claws his Tail off and wait for it to regenerate in a secluded mountain on the island in the Whirlpool while visiting Rikudo's grave.



Because Kurama has shown pain resistance to just shrug of _Amaterasu_ like Ei when his body parts are on fire. 

Clawing his tails off  ....and while he's trying to do that, Sasuke/Itachi just stand there and _don't_ incinerate his face... right

Sorry there..... but Kurama doesn't get to play "Cast Away" this time


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## Joakim3 (Oct 1, 2013)

Jak N Blak said:


> Look, look. Leave me be. I give in.
> 
> No more arguments addressed to me. I am done. To the Telegrams!



You brought it upon yourself Jak

If you don't want to be attacked.... don't claim Kurama is omnipotent to all but Shinju


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## Jak N Blak (Oct 2, 2013)

Lmao. It was fun while it lasted.

I had no idea how I was going to defend Lord Kurama's legacy against Madara & Hashirama.

I did better than expected.


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Oct 2, 2013)

Jak N Blak said:


> Lmao. It was fun while it lasted.
> 
> I had no idea how I was going to defend* Lord Kurama's* legacy against Madara & Hashirama.
> 
> I did better than expected.



Why do you call him Lord Fox? He is a monster full of pure energy I don't remember the sage of the six paths proclaiming the tailed beasts lords?

Or did he knight them all as well?

Ser Fox lol


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## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 4, 2013)

I thought it was pretty obvious that you couldn't kill a tailed beast. I mean, tailed beasts are composed of chakra, and chakra is supposed to be a form of energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be converted from one form to another. If you're talking about who can actually overpower the Kyuubi in a fight, though, then quite a few people could. Hashirama and Madara are pretty obvious choices here (and I'm not talking about suppression techniques), as are Juubi Obito, BM Naruto and probably even EMS Sasuke. KCM Naruto could arguably OHKO even Yin-Yang Kurama with his Chou Odama FRS, seeing how well his 50% SM FRS did against the full Yang Kurama.

The Rikudou Sennin is a no-brainer, and his sons could probably do the job too. I guess you could also count Kakashi in, as Kamui could bypass the beast's inherent durability and allow him to take off Kurama's head or something. Onoki and Mu could eventually 'kill' it with a couple or more blasts of Jinton: Genkai Hakuri. Ironically enough, only Nagato could come closest to truly killing the Kyuubi, if he could suck up all of the beast's chakra (hell, the beast is made up of chakra!) until it is no more, and Nagato would thus become the _new Kyuubi Jinchuriki._


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## Lurko (Oct 4, 2013)

Good post man yea tailed beasts can die but will cone back later, it was in a chapter.


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## egressmadara (Oct 4, 2013)

Peeps that can actually kill it?
Possibly Shisui/Itachi avec Kotoamatsukami (tells it to kill itself)
Hashirama with Sage Mode and Buddha (arguably, this attack would put it down but not necessarily kill it)


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## Blu-ray (Oct 4, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> Vegeta was superior to Goku on at least 3 occasions......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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