# Kuwabara vs Accelerator (read OP)



## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Can Kuwabara bypass Accelerator's passive shield?


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## mali (Sep 11, 2011)

Yes and pretty easily.


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

This may seem farfetched but can Kuwabara beat him?


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

Kuwabara from where? YYH? How does he pass his shield?


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## Weather (Sep 11, 2011)

> This may seem farfetched but can Kuwabara beat him?



From YYH?

No fucking way.


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Well, how fast is Accelerator? How does he counter Jigentou? The posters above think that Kuwabara can bypass the shield pretty easily...


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## mali (Sep 11, 2011)

Original Sin said:


> Kuwabara from where? YYH? How does he pass his shield?



>With a sword that can slash through dimensions
>That is kinda obvious


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

If he could beat Accelerator then YYH verse wouldn't have lost to Accelerator.



> >With a sword that can slash through dimensions
> >That is kinda obvious



I haven't read all of YYH


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## Engix (Sep 11, 2011)

Mali said:


> >With a sword that can slash through dimensions
> >That is kinda obvious


This, and if you equalized speed, i think it would actually be a preety good fight


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

How fast is Accel?


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

Around the Mach 20's


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

So, slower than B class beings?


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## Engix (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> So, slower than B class beings?



Thing is the YYH only has a few people who could bypass Accels barrier. And most of them would died trying to get to him


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## Weather (Sep 11, 2011)

Not to mention he has Continent+ Durability without the shield (or at least close to it)

So even if they hit him, doubt they'll do anything.

Except Kuwabara's sword of course.


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## Lina Inverse (Sep 11, 2011)

How fast is Kuwabara again

because his dimension sword is gonna do wonders to Accelerator's face


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## mali (Sep 11, 2011)

Definitely in the hypersonic range, although if you apply demon class scaling to him he should be around the mach 20's.


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Should be as fast if not faster than B class beings.
Also. how good is Accel against soulfuckery/mindfuckery? Did he ever showed any kind of resistance against either?


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 11, 2011)

teleportation doesn't work against accel


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> Should be as fast if not faster than B class beings.
> Also. how good is Accel against soulfuckery/mindfuckery? Did he ever showed any kind of resistance against either?



Never shown. He ranked above a Level 5 who has mindfuckery so that might count for something.


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

How does a dimension cutter equates your run of the mill teleporter?


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

Original Sin said:


> Never shown. He ranked above a Level 5 who has mindfuckery so that might count for something.



except that they aren't ranked taking whether one could beat the other into account, they're ranked on the potency of their abilities


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

So, Mr. Accel- 'Fans think he can solo YYH' -erator can't protect himself against mind/soulfuck? Got it.


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> So, Mr. Accel- 'Fans think he can solo YYH' -erator can't protect himself against mind/soulfuck? Got it.



A good amount of people thought so


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

i still believe he can, i'm just catching out the bad reasoning there

lightspeed passive shielding and the ability to redirect a continent buster's worth of energy would make it fairly simple


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## Monna (Sep 11, 2011)

Accelerator wouldn't be able to solo the HST, let alone YYH.


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## Weather (Sep 11, 2011)

Paul the SK said:


> Accelerator wouldn't be able to solo the HST, let alone YYH.



What...? 
10char


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

@Sin
Appeal to popularity. I couldn't care less if the entire site thinks so if its not backed up by logic. Posting smileys and modfucking by a ToAru fan does not equate debating at all.
@Luc
I can deflect sunlight with a mirror. The shield is always active no? It would be the speed of c only if its fast enough to turn on an off before photons can cover a certain distance.
Soulfuck and mindfuck are still viable answers no?


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

...why wouldn't he able to solo the hst? nothing they can throw at him would work and he'd just redirect it back at them. plus, kinetic blasts from the earth's rotation, cyclones, plasma storms

edit:



> I can deflect sunlight with a mirror. The shield is always active no?



that's really not the same thing and you know it, because the vector field isn't a solid material around him, it's a reactive presence, and when it redirects light it's doing it by bending away photons

soulfucking and mindfucking are viable, yes, i just don't see what opportunity anyone would have to get those attacks off before dying


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## Weather (Sep 11, 2011)

> I can deflect sunlight with a mirror. The shield is always active no? It would be the speed of c only if its fast enough to turn on an off before photons can cover a certain distance.



The shield is always active so lightspeed passive shielding or not, this point is moot.



> Soulfuck and mindfuck are still viable answers no?



How does this work? How are they used?


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## mali (Sep 11, 2011)

Filtering out radiation constantly, isnt light speed


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> @Sin
> Appeal to popularity. I couldn't care less if the entire site thinks so if its not backed up by logic. Posting smileys and modfucking by a ToAru fan does not equate debating at all.
> @Luc
> I can deflect sunlight with a mirror. The shield is always active no? It would be the speed of c only if its fast enough to turn on an off before photons can cover a certain distance.
> Soulfuck and mindfuck are still viable answers no?



bd don't start your flame wars on this site.

That say, say shield can filter 10,000 of different changing radiations on solar light.

The rank of the esper is how well they control they power and how much power they have, now he have defend even towards low lvl reality warper (Kakine), and mindfuck (Misaki).

Still he can kill him with fly out of range, plasma storm or another attack.

If this was accelerator at the start of the series that he relay only on his shield he would lose, but he have change his tactics lately and first analyze his enemies and then act.


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## Weather (Sep 11, 2011)

Forgot about the Kakine thing.

And yeah Accel was analizing and bending 25000 different types of energies in the light that Kakine was redirecting at him.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

oh xelloss

apparently he tanked a continental attack...without his vector field on

can i see the relevant extract?


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## Weather (Sep 11, 2011)

Yeah it was off.
He used his own body because the attack was pure Telesma.


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

Its 2 part if put only the part it won't make sense (1 which state the damage output) and the other the tanking, let me get the later.


*Spoiler*: __ 





> "Accelerator was already floating a few meters up.
> 
> Convinced that he had done the right thing, Accelerator flapped his white wings. His 100 meter wings used more than just the power of the wind. They also converted some more unknown energy into lift. He emitted no force down at the earth, but he still shot up like a bullet.
> 
> ...


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## Weather (Sep 11, 2011)

The other one

*Spoiler*: __ 







> ?Is it that great an ability? It is merely the power to negate the supernatural!! It is merely the power to grab and twist a power it cannot completely negate!! ?I should be able to sink an entire continent into the ocean with a single wave of my right arm. I should be able to dry up all the water in the oceans with a single strike!! You were nothing more than an adapter connected to that right arm until the designated time. You were nothing more than a potato shoot that is to be returned to the earth after the potato is collected!!?





> ?Do you understand what is going to happen?? Kamijou said while grinding his teeth. ?That?s a huge mass of the same energy that makes up an angel?s body. If that falls down to the earth, a ridiculously huge explosion will spread across the surface before any kind of change can take place!! It was the same with Misha during Angel Fall. If power that massive is allowed to rage without being controlled, it could easily destroy all of human civilization!!?
> ?Yes, it is unfortunate, but only for you. Given the amount of power, at least the entire continent of Eurasia will be enveloped by the light.?


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

How does continental durability protect from soulfuckery? Its like Tyrant using the 'Goku is immune to Sidius's mindfuck because ie can survive a planet buster' lojic.
@Xellos
Its Dd. Also, are you Accelerator from MVC?
Mach 20 isn't fast by even B class standard. 
Anyway, this is Kuwabara vs Accelerator. So, on topic, how is Accelerator going to survive?


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> How does a dimension cutter equates your run of the mill teleporter?


so you're saying kuwabara can get close enough to accel before accel can whip out some of his vector attacks?

when did kuwabara gain soulfuckery powers?


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> How does continental durability protect from soulfuckery? Its like Tyrant using the 'Goku is immune to Sidius's mindfuck because ie can survive a planet buster' lojic.
> @Xellos
> Its Dd. Also, are you Accelerator from MVC?
> Mach 20 isn't fast by even B class standard.
> Anyway, this is Kuwabara vs Accelerator. So, on topic, how is Accelerator going to survive?





> soulfucking and mindfucking are viable, yes, i just don't see what opportunity anyone would have to get those attacks off before dying



....

and mach 20 may not be fast by even b-class standards, but continent busting is unreachably powerful by the standards of _any_ YYH demon class

you ask that, but how is kuwabara going to kill him?


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> How does continental durability protect from soulfuckery? Its like Tyrant using the 'Goku is immune to Sidius's mindfuck because ie can survive a planet buster' lojic.
> @Xellos
> Its Dd. Also, are you Accelerator from MVC?
> Mach 20 isn't fast by even B class standard.
> Anyway, this is Kuwabara vs Accelerator. So, on topic, how is Accelerator going to survive?



Hell no.

I haven't watch YYH so can't comment there, but unless I haven't been informed Kuwabara doesn't have soulfuck.


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Then who are you? You seem to know me...
Kuwabara has shown telepathy but not mindfuck. He has shown the ability to transfer life energy but not soulfuck.
Doesn't matter. His jigen tou can bypass the shield and cut the space accross Accel's throat. Or dimemsion dump him. Mach 20+ speed won't save him.


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

Except the part he gets out of reach.

As I say if this was at the start of the series he would lose.

And no, I just lurk on other forums for the fun.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

well, that is true, actually, he can bypass his durability, and would reasonably be a fair bit faster than what i hear of accelerator's conscious reaction limit, and the passive shielding wouldn't do anything about spatial manipulation

hmmm


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

Accel messes with the earths rotation. Kuwabara launches out of battle. That or Accel can touch him and he dies.

Also, wouldn't Accels wings give him a better advantage?


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

If its spartial he can counter it (don't ask me how he just can manipulate space), if its some magic thing that cut dimensions (which I assume it is) then yes it can bypass the shield.

Again there are so many ways to take this, he can stop earth and let Kubawara die, be expelled on earth, etc.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

Original Sin said:


> Accel messes with the earths rotation. Kuwabara launches out of battle. That or Accel can touch him and he dies.
> 
> Also, wouldn't Accels wings give him a better advantage?


you're missing out that kuwabara is much faster, as an A-class


Xelloss said:


> If its spartial he can counter it *(don't ask me how he just can manipulate space)*, if its some magic thing that cut dimensions (which I assume it is) then yes it can bypass the shield.
> 
> Again there are so many ways to take this, he can stop earth and let Kubawara die, be expelled on earth, etc.



well, i won't ask you _how_, but i will ask for proof...


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> you're missing out that kuwabara is much faster, as an A-class
> 
> 
> well, i won't ask you _how_, but i will ask for proof...



Supposedly he has dealt with them before



> He couldn?t figure it out.
> If his reflection had succeeded, the water spear should have head straight back at Vodyanoy and pierced her arm. Instead, it had gone astray and had disintegrated into a rainbow of light. It had been an odd phenomenon. It hadn?t been something like steam created from water or ice. Accelerator had caused the reflection but he didn?t understand the process by which it had turned to light.
> (?What??)
> It felt like having something you had grabbed with the tips of your fingers slipping away.
> ...


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Thats no gonna work on a guy who can bypass dimensional shields at speeds much higher than that of Accel. The only thing that can work in time is the passive shield and it gets bypassed with the jigen tou. Also, Kuwabara has telekinesis


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

that's nowhere enough proof, you know, even disregarding the fact that teleportation comes in a variety of mechanisms, not all of which are straight-up spatial manipulation of kuwabara's kind


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## Black Sabbath II (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> Thats no gonna work on a guy who can bypass dimensional shields at speeds much higher than that of Accel. The only thing that can work in time is the passive shield and it gets bypassed with the jigen tou.* Also, Kuwabara has telekinesis*



Not that TK really matters here but... When the hell did Kuwabara have Telekinesis? I honestly remember him showing nothing of the psychic variety other than his whole 'predicting earthquakes' thing.


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

Yeah thats why I don't bother I know the sword can cut the shield. Yet there's no prof of the speed of Kuwabara and I dunno how he act on CiS (is he would blitz, talk, etc).


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> Thats no gonna work on a guy who can bypass dimensional shields at speeds much higher than that of Accel. The only thing that can work in time is the passive shield and it gets bypassed with the jigen tou. Also, Kuwabara has telekinesis


kuwabara is not fast enough to dimension cut accel before he can unleash his attacks



MazinFireWars said:


> Not that TK really matters here but...  When the hell did Kuwabara have Telekinesis? I honestly remember him  showing nothing of the psychic variety other than his whole 'predicting  earthquakes' thing.



I think he's confusing telekinesis with Kuwabara's ability to call back his spirit sword


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

Someone explaining how he can reflect vectors



> @ about accelerators arguement, i didnt know teleportation was a vector as well, well it does have coordinates and such but think about it, its similar to a stuff that does not move but the space itself changes, i think its called warpdrive?
> 
> 
> > Even gravitation has a vector, although it's theoretically just a space-time bending phenomenon caused by super-massive objects (and Accelerator is stated to be able to reflect it too). And teleportation is a movement (yes it is, ask Einstein if you want to know more  ), anyway, it's not a 3 dimensional but a 11 dimensional movement, and in the string theory U can get into a higher dimension by folding the lower dimension (like folding a 2D paper to get a 3D paper plane). Here's a link for further explanations
> ...


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Kuwabara demonstrated telekinesis in the DT final.
Also, Accel is not even B class in speed. Kuwabara BFRs him. Vector manipulation isn't gonna do anything at all.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

yusuke has been calced at mach 27 and toguro was fighting pretty evenly with him as a B-class. kuwabara ends the series as an a-class. while powerscaling can get tenuous, it's a pretty safe assumption that every a-class demon is superior to any b-class demon, since that's...what the classes are for.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 11, 2011)

teleportation doesn't work on accel


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

based on one passing mention that doesn't even approximate a feat, and with the method of teleportation unspecified...

no


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

Why are we talking about teleportation in this thread?


Also, wanna ask here. Is it possible for Accelerator to go Massively hypersonic via vectors?

Also Lucaniel. What do you mean by method? Are you asking how teleportation works in ToAru?


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 11, 2011)

why not
he did steal some of earth's rotation energy to throw a ftl concrete (?)

he's talking about kuwabara's jigen tou


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

Kuwabaras jigen tou is cutting dimensions. It's like curtana which I am sure would work on Accelerator since it would bypass the shield.


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## Black Sabbath II (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> Kuwabara demonstrated telekinesis in the DT final.
> Also, Accel is not even B class in speed. Kuwabara BFRs him. Vector manipulation isn't gonna do anything at all.



Against elder toguro? Never used telekinesis.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

Original Sin said:


> Why are we talking about teleportation in this thread?
> 
> 
> Also, wanna ask here. Is it possible for Accelerator to go Massively hypersonic via vectors?
> ...



that's what i mean indeed

there's teleportation via machine like the JLA ones (not entirely sure what principle they work on though, just an example), teleportation beams, nightcrawler who goes into an intermediary dimension, and so on

kuwabara's is spatial manipulation, like fold space in SW

so even if there's a passing mention of him blocking teleportation, unless you know what kind it was, you can't claim it defends against that


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Kuwabara can bfr Accel before Accel can even think about doing anything. The speed difference is big. The only chance is the light speed shield and if Kuwabara can bypass it...well Accel gets blasted to another dimension.
Kuwabara telekinetically used the trial sword...


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

actually being fair kuwabara's is also sorta dimensional manipulation, but yeah


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

Teleportation in ToAru works like this.

It's an explanation on Kuroko


> while *working out the spacial co-ordinates of jumping between 3-dimensional and 11-dimensional space,*



^Not sure if this helps. 

And what about Accelerators hundred of wings?


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

ah, so it's using another dimension as an intermediary

that ain't spatial manipulation

you can't use it to claim he can block kuwabara


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 11, 2011)

the teleportation in to aru is like nightcrawler's


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Kuwabara can bypass dimensional barriers. Straight up spatial manipulators like Kuwabara, The Hand, Cream, Skull Knight are hax.


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

My only issue here would be depending on accelerator version, how is he gonna pass the 100 wings that are 2km long, hypersonic mach 15 at least and disintegration.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 11, 2011)

there's an unknown speed difference between b class an a class


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> Kuwabara can bypass dimensional barriers. Straight up spatial manipulators like Kuwabara, The Hand, Cream, Skull Knight are hax.





Lucaniel said:


> ah, so it's using another dimension as an intermediary
> 
> that ain't spatial manipulation
> 
> you can't use it to claim he can block kuwabara



I don't know how his power works so it would be nice if someone can post a scan. But if it's like Curtana from ToAru then yes I already know that it can bypass his barrier.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

Original Sin said:


> I don't know how his power works so it would be nice if someone can post a scan. But if it's like Curtana from ToAru then yes I already know that it can bypass his barrier.


someone probably has scans. iirc it's a sword which cuts through space and can shorten distances to nothing, cut through dimensional barriers, etc.


Kirihara said:


> there's an unknown speed difference between b class an a class



dude, even if we only grant kuwabara the speed of a B-class, he's still faster than accelerator's best conscious reaction feats


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 11, 2011)

Akuma is 1m60
page 9 onwards


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Mach 15? Thats not even mid B level.
Kuwabara, at the least, should be mach 27+. He can bypass distance anyway.
Also, he can self teleport to another dimension and attack Accel from there. He can attack people from another dimension. Seaman learned it the hard way.


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

Outside of the wings, I do think Kuwabara win this, then again not all wiki entries are accurate.

@The attack from other dimension does sounds like the way accelerator manipulate space so I don't think that works, the problem with the wings, is they attack on their own, they regenerate to fast cutting them its not gonna work and even if the speed is greater a single touch of them and GG.

All this dimensional manipulation Goury vs Kuwabara with speed equal.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 11, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> dude, even if we only grant kuwabara the speed of a B-class, he's still faster than accelerator's best conscious reaction feats


well I thought accel can atleast unleash one attack before kuwabara can get close


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> Mach 15? Thats not even mid B level.
> Kuwabara, at the least, should be mach 27+. He can bypass distance anyway.
> Also, he can self teleport to another dimension and attack Accel from there. He can attack people from another dimension. Seaman learned it the hard way.



What Xelloss was trying to point that there were about a hundred and they come from all directions.


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## Black Sabbath II (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> Kuwabara can bfr Accel before Accel can even think about doing anything. The speed difference is big. The only chance is the light speed shield and if Kuwabara can bypass it...well Accel gets blasted to another dimension.
> *Kuwabara telekinetically used the trial sword..*



How so? By manipulating it's shape? That doesn't translate to Telekinesis.


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Kuwabara is way fast. Heck mid B class demons are faster than Accel.
Accelerator vs Toguro. 
He gets soulfucked. gg


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

Kirihara said:


> well I thought accel can atleast unleash one attack before kuwabara can get close



based on what? he's nearly twice as fast, and even with a massive starting distance, he'd just use the jigentou to shrink it, same result


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 11, 2011)

well I have mixed feelings about Kuwabara's jigen tou teleportation probably because of his statement that it ain't just a door to anywhere
although I don't have qualms giving this match to Kuwabara


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

Kirihara said:


> well I have mixed feelings about Kuwabara's jigen tou teleportation probably because of his statement that it ain't just a door to anywhere
> *although I don't have qualms giving this match to Kuwabara*



Surprisingly me either. Probably because this was pretty damn civil.


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

Neither I just want to know if he can blitz all the wings, if he can he wins.

I want my Goury vs Kuwabara match


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## Shouko (Sep 11, 2011)

Xelloss said:


> My only issue here would be depending on accelerator version, how is he gonna pass the 100 wings that are 2km long, hypersonic mach 15 at least and disintegration.



Where's exactly said that Accel wings can disintegrate?

And Hi I'm new


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Kuwabara suffered from lack of confidence. Thats all. After Hiei's lie (or not so lie), Kuwabara managed to create pin point accurate portals


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

During novel 13 if my memory doesn't fail me, better ask someone with a more accurate memory or a quote.


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

So Kuwabara wins. Put it in the wiki. Massive lulz will ensure when someone reads Kuwabara's wiki page.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

this might sound contradictory, but despite the fact that kuwabara wins, i'm pretty sure accel still beats the verse, because typically speaking, a whole bunch of S-classes would fire off mountainbusters at him, accel would reflect them back, and kazuma would just die in the crossfire 

your mileage may vary, though


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## ChaosTheory123 (Sep 11, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> this might sound contradictory, but despite the fact that kuwabara wins, i'm pretty sure accel still beats the verse, because typically speaking, a whole bunch of S-classes would fire off mountainbusters at him, accel would reflect them back, and kazuma would just die in the crossfire
> 
> your mileage may vary, though



That makes sense actually...



MazinFireWars said:


> How so? By manipulating it's shape? That doesn't translate to Telekinesis.



I think he's referring to when Kuwabara called the trial sword over to himself while it was lying 5 or so meters away.  He then had it slash elder toguro about 5 times.

Dunno if that's reiki manipulation or genuine TK though.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 11, 2011)

reiki manipulation makes more sense


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## ChaosTheory123 (Sep 11, 2011)

I guess.

Kind of hard to tell when the verse has psychics and ki manipulators more or less using the same shit for combat.


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 11, 2011)

What does it matter? It does the same thing, right?


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

well, no, if he's manipulating reiki, then since accel doesn't have any, it doesn't really equate. it's not actual TK, we never saw him affect physical objects in the real world with it


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 11, 2011)

Wouldn't that be taken care of by equivalence?


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## hammer (Sep 11, 2011)

couldn't he extend the sword assuming he cant get close?


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

well, no, because we don't assume that the world is made out of reiki, just because people can use reiki. the world is just made out of physical matter unless it's been stated otherwise


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 11, 2011)

I was talking about Accelerator.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

i don't understand

are you saying that by equivalence, accelerator has reiki?


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 11, 2011)

Yeah, that's what I was asking about.  Would he?


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

Isn't Reiki demonic energy?


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 11, 2011)

Yeah, but if we're using equivalence for shit like reaitsu, chakra, etc.... don't see why it shouldn't be the same here.


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

I don't think it applies, specially when the other side is divine... kinda like oil and water.


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 11, 2011)

I suppose you have a point.


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## hammer (Sep 11, 2011)

I thought it was more like spirt energy


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## ChaosTheory123 (Sep 11, 2011)

@Lucanial - That appears to be the implication.

What is equivalence's definition around here anyway?

We appear to have quite a few different notions as to what it does around here from poster to poster.


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

@Luc
What? Kuwabara's trial sword's hilt was lying about 5 m away from him. Kuwabara extended his energy towards it. The sword starts moving on in the air telekintically and slashed Toguro multiple times. Nothing more.
Reiki is spirit energy.
Youki is demonic energy.
Also,Toguro soul fucks Accel. Make a match if you don't believe me.
On the higher side, Hiei mind fucks Accel. Shishi or Suzuki or Itsuki dimension dumps him.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

okay here is my definition of equivalence

it's here to stop bullshit like people saying bleach autowins fights because no-one can see them, and to stop quibbling over how one generic mangaverse's 'energy' concept isn't quite like another, like reiatsu and chakra

it is _not_ there to jump to outlandish conclusions like manipulating an object you made out of reiki, when you can generate and control reiki, meaning that you can use that power to interact with the physical world when none of that is made out of reiki, at all

and in this case i'm pretty sure it wouldn't follow that accelerator has reiki, because accelerator works off some wacky AIM field or something which has no similarity whatsoever to reiki, and he has the specific power of vector manipulation only, not all-purpose AIM manipulation (or whatever it is he runs on)

why is equivalence necessary here, anyway?


----------



## Black Sabbath II (Sep 11, 2011)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> That makes sense actually...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's pretty much explained in the series itself that it's reiki manipulation. Not really TK.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> @Luc
> What? Kuwabara's trial sword's hilt was lying about 5 m away from him. Kuwabara extended his energy towards it. The sword starts moving on in the air telekintically and slashed Toguro multiple times. Nothing more.
> Reiki is spirit energy.
> Youki is demonic energy.
> ...



that would happen if you gave them prep and/or at least knowledge, but without that, he would just get bombarded by s-class attacks, reflect them casually and kill all the people with more broken abilities which you've named

hiei's jagan mindfuck also only works on low-level opponents, not sure how that translates to accelerator but if he was in YYH his feats durability and destruction wise would put him way, way above s-class, so yeah


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## Banhammer (Sep 11, 2011)

deflection by vectorial manipulation will not shield you against a dimension cutter
A vector is a change in displacement of space
Kuwabara's sword is a "fuck y'o space" It will cut through a continent buster vector shield with the same dificulty that it will cut through a paper busting vector shield with the same ease as planetary busting shield


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## Banhammer (Sep 11, 2011)

when that kid says "silly kuwabara, you cannot punch through a dimension" it is not because dimension walls are particularly hard, it's because XYZT does not exist beyond that wall

Vectors do not really exist. They're a mathematical operation. You got an object then you ad +5 X -2 Z + 1 Y +3 T to say he went to the left five spaces, down two spaces and onwards one space during three seconds.
The operation of sum, subtraction or multiplication is a vector
What 'Rator does is add sum subtract and multiply those values which is fine and dandy
Kuwabara's sword doesn't operate on numbers though. Kuwabara's sword operates on the letters.
And with that, you got yourself in big trouble


----------



## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Accelerator has no resistance to jagan as far as I know. Replace 'weak human' with 'ordinary human'.
All of them are faster than Accelerator. YYH verse isn't made of morons.
A guy Toguro can beat won't be considered a threat by high tiers. Bloodlust doesn't equate mindless attack. It just means that Goku and Supe will go for the kill instead of their usual way of dealing with stuff. The S class attacks, redirected, won't kill them. They have good durability too. Once they know it, they will mindfuck, soulfuck, bfr the shit outta Accel.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

except they'd need knowledge to act based on all the things you just assumed they'd automatically know to deal with him, i.e. 'a guy toguro can beat', 'once they know it' (how will they know he's vulnerable to these things? when the people with the broken abilities who are generally weak in youki see a guy tanking mountainbusters, they'll hang back so's not to get in the S-class fighters' way)

bloodlust means go for the kill. people in yyh kill people with energy blasts or punches, essentially, physical force. there is nothing wrong with the assumption that accelerator won't be bombarded with s-class level attacks and redirect them, taking out basically everyone who isn't s-class and some who are. 

and what do you mean, accelerator has no resistance to humans...?

please don't imply my assuming YYHverse will fire off their strongest attacks to kill an opponent, when bloodlusted, is assuming they're all morons. it's a perfectly reasonable action


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## King Hopper (Sep 11, 2011)

Except Asselerator's passive ability seems to deflect things that don't have have any sort of motion, but are just shoved into pre-defined co-ordinates  as well.

It's why their dime a dozen teleporters haven't teleported  a bullet into his skull by now. The reason for this was never adequately explored, it was just sort of added by the author's whim.

Now, from what I understand, the Jigen-Tou is a spatial displacement weapon. Wouldn't this defend him against it?

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

King Hopper said:


> Except Asselerator's passive ability seems to deflect things that don't have have any sort of motion, but are just shoved into pre-defined co-ordinates  as well.
> 
> It's why their dime a dozen teleporters haven't teleported  a bullet into his skull by now. The reason for this was never adequately explored, it was just sort of added by the author's whim.
> 
> ...



to aru teleportation can't be equalized with the jigentou. reasons why have been covered in previous pages


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## King Hopper (Sep 11, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> to aru teleportation can't be equalized with the jigentou. reasons why have been covered in previous pages



I still have my doubts on the topic. Considering that when one of the teleporters went berserk, their construct came through an interspatial tunnel as opposed to the norm, and it's been stated that their ability works between 3-dimensional and 11-dimensional space,


Still can't be assed to argue for the latter though.


----------



## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

@Luc
I edited my post. I meant jagan not human lol.
Lets say the attacks get reflected and the get hit by their own attacks.
It won't kill the S class. Injured? Depending on the power level, yes.
They will use mind fuck, soulfuck, BFR against him. Koenma fires the interdimensional cannon. Accel's soul is destroyed.
Your argument is basically that the YYH crew would kill themselves mindlessly. 
There are shit ton of characters who can read Accel's mind and understand his powers. They would warn him. Hiei is such a person. Attack deflection won't work him too. Also the massive speed difference.
The match falls under the 'relatively weak character solo while the top tier takes a nap' type of matches that happens against the HST often.


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

And we have conver all telepaths and the like of ToAru fail, and I don't know but unless they have a high lvl telepath thats a no.


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## Black Sabbath II (Sep 11, 2011)

I think accel showed some mindfuck resistance at one point. Not sure though. I recall hearing something about how when that god-like being appeared everyone got auto ko'd by it's presence but accel was still conscious.

You'd have to ask xellos about that.


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

MazinFireWars said:


> I think accel showed some mindfuck resistance at one point. Not sure though. I recall hearing something about how when that god-like being appeared everyone got auto ko'd by it's presence but accel was still conscious.
> 
> You'd have to ask xellos about that.



That feat doesn't really count, as Aiwass wanted to talk to him,  also another normal human who was unaffected as he already know of Aiwass and it didn't feel like to KO him.

But pretty much your run of the mill telephats on the city are useless, the queen which is the best at this can't do it.


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Why did this turn into an offtopic shit fest? Lets focus on Accel vs Kuwabara.


----------



## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

Because u derail it


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Sep 11, 2011)

I thought Respite was banned.


----------



## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

Greed is in charge of that .

Edit: Nothing left to discuss we admit he lose I dunno what else you want.


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

I wasn't the one who brought up the 'Accelerator can solo YYH' thing. Someone else did.
Also who the fuck is Respite and why do people confuse him with me? Same avatar or signature?


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## ChaosTheory123 (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick is Dd from moviecodec.

Not respite/jinibea/whomever the fuck he is.


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## zer0light (Sep 11, 2011)

moviecodec


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

So? Its annoying debating against Tyrant and his ilk for 50+ pages but hey a debate is a debate. Don't try to change the opponent's mind. That won't happen. Instead try to gain respect from the judges and the spectators. Thats how you win a debate.


----------



## zer0light (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> So? Its annoying debating against Tyrant and his ilk for 50+ pages but hey a debate is a debate. Don't try to change the opponent's mind. That won't happen. Instead try to gain respect from the judges and the spectators. Thats how you win a debate.



who's trying to change who's mind? i thought everyone already agreed accel loses?


----------



## ChaosTheory123 (Sep 11, 2011)

He was merely responding to your reaction to him being from moviecodec.

Actually, I'm getting the feeling both of you are misunderstanding eachother's posts...


----------



## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Let this die already


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> @Luc
> I edited my post. I meant jagan not human lol.
> Lets say the attacks get reflected and the get hit by their own attacks.
> It won't kill the S class. Injured? Depending on the power level, yes.
> ...



depending on where the match is, accelerator can also kill them with power channeled from stopping the earth's rotation, on the S-class

the only mindfuck is jagan, and i'm pretty sure hiei wouldn't avoid dying in the first barrage



> Your argument is basically that the YYH crew would kill themselves mindlessly.



it isn't, and you know it isn't. my argument is that YYH characters logically sue their strongest attacks on him, not knowing his ability, and have them reflected back

incidentally, all the low-tier characters would pretty much immediately die from the above happening

also, i find the idea of hiei's jagan, which is restricted to fodder, working on accelerator, quite questionable. what limits did it show?

also, the interdimensional cannon would be an awful idea...he can tank it, so that's immaterial (though unsure about the soulfucking element), but it would just get redirected at his opponents, who would ALL die from its country busting power


----------



## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

How does he tank a soul destroying attack?
Hiei is mid tier S class about as strong as Yusuke. He would just read Accel's mind and warn the others. The D jagan failed to control people with high reki in the 1st saga. In YYH, high energy gives them higher resistance to soul fuck, mind fuck it would seem. Its not like Accel has resisted any. Kuwabara and Itsuki will travel to another dimension at the start of the match anyway so as to avoid getting vapourised by S class aura. They will take care of Accel if Hiei fails to give the warning.
Btw, CIS is on by default.
I also doesn't like the 'Toguro can beat Accelerator but Accelerator can solo YYH' bit or the 'Accel can't solo one at a time but he can solo the whole verse together' bit.
As I said, this falls in the same level as the 'Sensui kills Inuyasha while the rest of YYH takes a nap' category.
YYH also people that can fight as a ghost. Accel can't hurt them. Kurama and Hiei can use the technique.
Besides, the moment the attacks are reflected, Yomi can create a barrier to protect them. Don't forget Kaito and Amanuma. Their non violence territory will nullify the reflected attacks.
He isn't surviving it.


----------



## zer0light (Sep 11, 2011)

would accel being a divine being, an angel make any diff for the soul fucking?


----------



## King Hopper (Sep 11, 2011)

Why would it?


----------



## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

AceDick said:


> How does he tank a soul destroying attack?
> Hiei is mid tier S class about as strong as Yusuke. He would just read Accel's mind and warn the others. The D jagan failed to control people with high reki in the 1st saga. In YYH, high energy gives them higher resistance to soul fuck, mind fuck it would seem. Its not like Accel has resisted any. Kuwabara and Itsuki will travel to another dimension at the start of the match anyway so as to avoid getting vapourised by S class aura. They will take care of Accel if Hiei fails to give the warning.
> Btw, *CIS is on by default.*
> I also doesn't like the 'Toguro can beat Accelerator but Accelerator can solo YYH' bit or the 'Accel can't solo one at a time but he can solo the whole verse together' bit.
> ...


Pretty sure it's always off. Because CIS and PIS can be taken in different ways.

And why are you assuming once the attacks are reflected Accelerator will just stand there?


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## Xelloss (Sep 11, 2011)

No feat no prove sadly, still first he has mental resistance and unless he can prove those characters can overcome someone with mindfuck resistance that feat is null point.


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

zer0light said:


> would accel being a divine being, an angel make any diff for the soul fucking?



It's possible but you can't just say it is true. Once Accelerator becomes a level 6 we'll see.


----------



## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Hey Xellos, isn't CIS on by default?


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

i promise i will respond fully later but that really caught me out

CIS is NOT on by default, the default is PIS & CIS off, characters bloodlusted


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

CIS is on:


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## OS (Sep 11, 2011)

It says should be BUT

same with bloodlust.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 11, 2011)

that really needs updating, CIS is never on in matches here. you have to specify if you want it on


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## AceDick (Sep 11, 2011)

Change the rules then. By current official rules its on.


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## ~Greed~ (Sep 11, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> except that they aren't ranked taking whether one could beat the other into account, they're ranked on the potency of their abilities



The aren't ranked by power, But by how useful they are to Crowley's plans. But rank 1 and 2 are the strongest despite the fact that they aren't ranked by power.

The true rank, if we were to go by power would probably be:

1. #1 Accelerator 
2. #2 Teitoku Kakine
3. #4 Shizuri Mugino or #7 Sugiita Gunha
4. #3 Misaka Mikoto 
5. #5 Shokuhou Misaki

Going by how they are ranked when it coms to power, I doubt Misaki's power will work on Accel or Kakine. Mugino and Gunha are debatable though.


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## ~Greed~ (Sep 11, 2011)

MazinFireWars said:


> I think accel showed some mindfuck resistance at one point. Not sure though. I recall hearing something about how when that god-like being appeared everyone got auto ko'd by it's presence but accel was still conscious.
> 
> You'd have to ask xellos about that.



Aiwass let him stay awake when he appeared because he wanted to test Accelerator's powers/troll him.


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## pikachuwei (Sep 12, 2011)

Accelerator could solo YYH if he has enough time to pull out an attack.

YYH-verse has a very short window of time to bust out all their soul-fucking/mind-fucking moves before Accelerator kills them all with a life-wiping blast. So it would really come down to whether a bloodlusted YYH-verse pull out all their most powerful physical attacks first or all their hax attacks first, coz if its the former, they may not have enough time to switch to the latter.


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

Considering they're all worlds faster than accel no he's not. 


And exactly what will he be hurting them with?


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## pikachuwei (Sep 12, 2011)

Anything. A piece of rock/concrete etc (it seems this is in the RoSaT, im not sure about whether the floor is destructible but a piece of the flooring will do fine)

All he has to do is channel the Rotational kinetic energy of the earth and throw the thing at the ground to cause a lifewiping explosion.

Though now that I think about it, this IS in the RoSaT so not sure if the attack will work (lack of rotational energy to channel?)


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## Engix (Sep 12, 2011)

1. A rock will life-wipe by dropping on the ground.
2. A rock will hurt a YYH character. 

No matter how i read it


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

Yeah see, unless they sit around and have tea and cookies (totally serious) he'll never have enough time to pull that off


Even then it requires the fight to take place on earth which needs to be specified.



Not sure if just saying a certain location on earth qualifies.

meh


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## pikachuwei (Sep 12, 2011)

Engix said:


> 1. A rock will life-wipe by dropping on the ground.
> 2. A rock will hurt a YYH character.
> 
> No matter how i read it



Not realising that the rock will be propelled by energy equivalent to up to 3 exatons of TNT and travelling at virtually lightspeed

and in before you call bullshit, this calc has been done 3 separate times in the Metabattledome (heck once by a magazine from Japan) and all times the range is in petatons~exatons level.


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

Then mike brought up the fact it hit a wall and nothing happened to the earth


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## pikachuwei (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> Yeah see, unless they sit around and have tea and cookies (totally serious) he'll never have enough time to pull that off
> 
> 
> Even then it requires the fight to take place on earth which needs to be specified.
> ...



yeah I have no idea how fast the YYH characters, I'm just saying that if Accel actively fights he has the power to beat them (Lucaniel was talking about how Accel could harm them by reflecting their attacks). I'm not advocating a win here, just saying if they do dilly-dally they will get screwed

And as long as the location takes place on Earth or a celestial body with kinetic energy Accel should be able to channel that energy for an attack

Heck they could fight on the Sun (assuming the sun has rotational energy) and Accel could do his kinetic energy channel. Ofc the sun doesnt really have anything for accel to throw, so theres a problem.


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## pikachuwei (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> Then mike brought up the fact it hit a wall and nothing happened to the earth



The thing is, the wall was being protected by a barrier of supernatural power that presumably absorbed the entirety of the impact.


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

You'd have to prove him being able to do it for another planet since not all of them are the same and saying he could do it to a star is pushing it.


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

pikachuwei said:


> The thing is, the wall was being protected by a barrier of supernatural power that presumably absorbed the entirety of the impact.



Unless he threw it through a vacuum that doesnt matter



Even then because of that you still cant quantify the feat since as mike said, you cant use science to claim something then disregard it when it doesnt suit your purpose.


With out an actual result its just conjecture on your part


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> You'd have to prove him being able to do it for another planet since not all of them are the same and saying he could do it to a star is pushing it.



why would I need to prove that he could do it on another planet? It's not like his power is limited to Earth or something

The planet rotates on its axis. It has rotational kinetic energy. Accelerator channels that energy and redirects it to launch a projectile. Its merely another application of his Vector Control ability. Last time I checked vectors work the same whether it be on Earth, that planet in another galaxy, or the sun.


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## pikachuwei (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> Unless he threw it through a vacuum that doesnt matter



Fair point. I personally don't have an answer to that besides that the author doesnt understand science very well. Greed has some sort of fancy explanation for Accel wrapping a vector shield around the projectile or something to increase its destructive impact while reducing environmental damage on its flight there or something but you'd have to ask him.

Though this is really the same type of problem as all the superfast characters out there whose clothes dont combust when they go at multiple mach speeds (luffy's straw hat for example; how can his straw hat stay on his head without any visible attachment/not explode into flames when hes running around at double digit mach speeds)


----------



## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

Because the size and energy needed to rotate different celestial bodies is never the same.

We can assume he can do it for Earth sized bodies and smaller. Anything bigger and you need evidence


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## pikachuwei (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> Because the size and energy needed to rotate different celestial bodies is never the same.
> 
> We can assume he can do it for Earth sized bodies and smaller. Anything bigger and you need evidence



its not like he can take away all the rotational energy of the earth anyway. He only took away enough to slow down the day by 5 min (which still turns out to be a gargantuan amount of energy)

On a celestial body bigger than earth he'd still be able to take away energy up to that same amount to propel his attacks. The point was that as long as he has something to draw energy from he can use it to power his attacks

Like if you dumped accelerator in a theoretical universe where there was no kinetic energy/vectors at all anywhere (besides himself) he wouldnt be able to do very much. His power depends on there being vectors for him to manipulate


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

But I'm saying he actually needs to show he's capable of doing it to larger bodies. Otherwise it's just conjecture


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 12, 2011)

pikachuwei said:


> Fair point. I personally don't have an answer to that besides that the author doesnt understand science very well. Greed has some sort of fancy explanation for Accel wrapping a vector shield around the projectile or something to increase its destructive impact while reducing environmental damage on its flight there or something but you'd have to ask him.



You know, Saint Seiya has a similar issue with concentrated attacks. Only the manga explains why it happens AND gives enough feats of big scale stuff (like a character not at full power killing many people with global disasters, another shifting geologic ages with time powers as a mindwashed kid etc.) to placate skeptics. If that series doesn't have the first, it should at least have the latter.


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 12, 2011)

@Strike Man

Speed doesn't matter when you have passive shields that are already on.


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## pikachuwei (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> But I'm saying he actually needs to show he's capable of doing it to larger bodies. Otherwise it's just conjecture


meh well my physics is shoddy so I cant tell whether there is an actual difference taking x amount of energy from a planet of size y and another larger body of size z. Not like the larger body is harder to take energy away from it.



Charcan said:


> You know, Saint Seiya has a similar issue with concentrated attacks. Only the manga explains why it happens AND gives enough feats of big scale stuff (like a character not at full power killing many people with global disasters, another shifting geologic ages with time powers as a mindwashed kid etc.) to placate skeptics. If that series doesn't have the first, it should at least have the latter.



yeah well ToAru author obviously doesn't bother placating skeptics, like most series (again, Oda and Strawhat as an example)


----------



## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> @Strike Man
> 
> Speed doesn't matter when you have passive shields that are already on.



Because I don't know who Accelerator is.


Who are you?


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> Considering they're all worlds faster than accel no he's not.
> 
> 
> And exactly what will he be hurting them with?


their own attacks


Dandy Elegance said:


> Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.





Engix said:


> 1. A rock will life-wipe by dropping on the ground.
> 2. A rock will hurt a YYH character.
> 
> No matter how i read it


multiverse/omniverse


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Sep 12, 2011)

Accelerator gets chopped like chachamaru.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> Because I don't know who Accelerator is.
> 
> 
> Who are you?



Then why posts as if his shields aren't there?

Why bring up speed at all if you know this?


----------



## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

Kirihara said:


> their own attacks




Considering the amount of S-class demons (guys that can shatter mountains with the shockwaves of their punches) The speed advantage and the ability to tank their own attacks Accel dies


----------



## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

Because they'd overwhelm him and his vectors with their attacks before he could do anything?



Why does this need to be pointed out.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> Considering the amount of S-class demons (guys that can shatter mountains with the shockwaves of their punches) The speed advantage and the ability to tank their own attacks Accel dies


actually contrary to the popular belief, s-class demons are very rare in makai no less than 30 including raizen's buddies


----------



## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

Accel would be hard pressed killing any S class (Sensui being low S class) let alone upper S-class like Yomi and Mukuro. My point stands


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

what the hell            .


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 12, 2011)

No it does not. 

He has continental level durability.

S classes are doing jack shit against him. 

And this is not even counting the fact that thanks to his vectors, they will be attacking themselves the entire time.

EDIT: Strike Man you gotta to be trolling right now



> Considering the amount of S-class demons (guys that can shatter mountains with the shockwaves of their punches) The speed advantage and the ability to tank their own attacks Accel die



What the fuck is this? Stop being blatantly dishonest.


----------



## ~Greed~ (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> Accel would be hard pressed killing any S class (Sensui being low S class) let alone upper S-class like Yomi and Mukuro. My point stands



I'd like to see the feat where Sensui or any other s class character took the full brunt of their own attacks several times over. Because Accel is pretty much going to make them hit themselves over and over again.

Also, you act like a mountain buster is somehow impressive to Accel and is somehow going to take him out, when he's taken a continent buster even without his vector field working. Hundreds of mountain busters for Accel is like the equivalent of hundreds of lice bites for a normal human.


----------



## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

~Greed~ said:


> I'd like to see the feat where Sensui or any other s class character took the full brunt of their own attacks several times over. Because Accel is pretty much going to make them hit themselves over and over again.






They do everytime they fight each other. If they couldnt withstand their own attacks theyd be killing each other left and right. They'd be glass cannons and it isnt like they cant you know, get the fuck out of the way when he redirects there attacks.






> Also, you act like a mountain buster is somehow impressive to Accel and is somehow going to take him out, when he's taken a continent buster even without his vector field working. Hundreds of mountain busters for Accel is like the equivalent of hundreds of lice bites for a normal human.




Great, you completely missed the point about it being done casually with the shockwaves of their normal punches.


He also didnt tank the continent buster as he was severly injured afterward. Crippling him is another way they could beat him. I also like the part where you call them "mosquito bites" to him when isnt actually tanking them he's redirecting them. I mean really, do I need to bring up the fact that Touma could punch him out and he was shot in the head?


Without his vectors his best defensive showing is barely surviving a continent buster (which is impressive, but being severly hurt after it doesnt mean that he wont feel lesser damage, it just means it will take a bit more to kill him) mosquito bites indeed Greed.




Not to mention even if it turns into a battle of attrition he'd still lose.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

mountain buster compared to eurasia is...


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 12, 2011)

The fact that he wasn't completely obliterated by a fucking Eurasia buster means S classes can't hurt him.


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks for missing my point .


You even fail at sniping.



Have a seat in the corner


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> The fact that he wasn't completely obliterated by a fucking Eurasia buster means S classes can't hurt him.



Wrong again, it means they cant put him down for good in one go.

Damage adds up over time. So he'd probably be crippled after a few.


Have a seat in the corner


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> Wrong again, it means they cant put him down for good in one go.
> 
> Damage adds up over time. So he'd probably be crippled after a few.
> 
> ...



Yea because obviously they are getting around his vectors, causing him to even worry about his Eurasia level durability.

You act as if the YYHverse have some sort of inkling on Accelerators abilities when they don't know a damn thing.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> Thanks for missing my point .
> 
> 
> You even fail at sniping.
> ...


somehow mountain busters being repeatedly unleashed would cripple someone with continental durability
that's your point right


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

In a neutral verse his only form of killing them is gone.


On another setting they'd punch him in the face when he starts gathering the planets rotational energy since it was shown if he's occupied with a hard enough task he has to turn off his passive shielding which is how he got shot in the head in the first place.

You're also acting like they cant move out of the way when he redirects there attacks.






Seat-->Corner


You know the drill


@Kiri: yeah because he brushed off that continent buster like a champ








Again ---> Corner


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> In a neutral verse his only form of killing them is gone.
> 
> 
> On another setting they'd punch him in the face when he starts gathering the planets rotational energy since it wad shown if he's occupied with a hard enough task he has to turn off his passive shielding which is how he got shot in the head in the first place.


and you're assuming it was a hard task for accel why

*



			You're also acting like they cant move out of the way when he redirects there attacks.
		
Click to expand...

*


> Seat-->Corner
> 
> 
> You know the drill


they can't run away forever


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

They're faster than him and have more stamina.





Stay in the corner


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 12, 2011)

Strike Man's lost his fucking mind.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

yeah because a bunch of mountain busters would even come close to country busting let alone continental


~Strike Man~ said:


> They're faster than him and have more stamina.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


passive vector redirecting their attacks


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

So, you two have got nothing. Good to know.


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## AceDick (Sep 12, 2011)

Accelerator vs Toguro.
Toguro soulfucks him at speeds way beyond his reaction time.
Whats so damn hard to understand?
Toguro soul fucks.
Hiei mindfucks.
Kuwabara cuts him into two.
Kaito, Amanuma and Yomi ensures that the deflected attacks don't do much damage.
Heck Toguro himself can beat Accelerator. Superior speed + soulfuck ftw


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 12, 2011)

I can't believe what I'm reading right now.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

hell kuwabara only won because accel doesn't have defenses against his dimension cutter and superior speed

strike man: OLOLOL mountain buster x 100 = continental buster


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

Still nothing I see.




AD: Toguro's soul fuck wont work on anyone notable. Its a moot point


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

yeah nothing would be left of yyhverse


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

So instead of countering you resort to jokes


Nice debating


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 12, 2011)

AceDick said:


> Accelerator vs Toguro.
> Toguro soulfucks him at speeds way beyond his reaction time.
> Whats so damn hard to understand?
> Toguro soul fucks.
> ...



Go back to MovieCodec


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> So instead of countering you resort to jokes
> 
> 
> Nice debating



Why counter? If you believe YYH characters can take on people with the durability to withstand a Eurasia buster, then there's nothing left to say to you.


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## AceDick (Sep 12, 2011)

@Strike
Toguro's soul fuck don't work on people who have shown resistance to it.
Accel has the soul fuck resistance of a normal human. Even C class like Rinku were affected and Chu had to teach him how to counter Toguro's soulfuckery. Who is going to teach Accel? Even with equivalence, Accel doesn't have anything equivalent to reiki, youki no? There is not some rule which states 'continent level durability protects you from mind/soul fuck', is there? Kaito and Amanuma still mess his shit.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

obd doesn't work that way


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

You're so hung up on the words "eurasia" and "continent" you refuse to see the obvious.


The fact is, without his vector shielding, he wont be shrugging off these attacks. If he had actually tanked it, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


Instead of arguing my point you grandstand.


Honestly I dont think the YYH side has much chance of winning but if these are the best arguments you (who most likely has not read a single chapter/watched an episode) can come up with I'll continue even with my outdated knowledge on the subject until I am convinced otherwise


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

.... I refuse to believe what you just wrote there ...
so you're saying that because A EURASIA buster crippled accel
a bunch of mountain busters would do the same?

Also why are you not mentioning his passive vector shielding


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## AceDick (Sep 12, 2011)

@Kirihara
Appeal to tradition
Kuwbara kills him.
Also prove that Accelerator has any kind of resistance to mind or soul fuck now.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

what's that?


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

I already mentioned it god damn do you not read?

They fire attacks at him and they bounce off, then what? They arent going to just keep firing at him and if it becomes a stamina fight he has no way of winning.


His strongest mode for attack would be the one where he gathers the rotational energy for it in which case they punch him.


If you were reading the damn thread you'd know it was a hard task because he couldnt even take a large percentage of it.





Again, he isnt shrugging off there attacks either. If you arent going to come up with a reasonable counter point then sit in the damn corner,snipe and wait for someone to dismantle my argument because you sure as hell arent.


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## AceDick (Sep 12, 2011)

@kirihara
Fallacy #15
I even posted a link to the obd wiki instead of from wikipedia or some other fallacy list.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> I already mentioned it god damn do you not read?
> 
> They fire attacks at him and they bounce off, then what? They arent going to just keep firing at him and if it becomes a stamina fight he has no way of winning.


people lower than s-class would die on the crossfire
they're not going to dodge a bunch of mountain busters, the aoe is too big
they'll tank their attacks
rinse and repeat for 5 minutes



> His strongest mode for attack would be the one where he gathers the rotational energy for it in which case they punch him.


And why are you assuming his vector control wouldn't work 
It only worked on that doctor because he was concentrating on thousands and thousands of virus at that time and can't calculate the vectors to protect him





> If you were reading the damn thread you'd know it was a hard task because he couldnt even take a large percentage of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't need to dismantle your mountain busters are gonna hurt someone with continental durability argument 
Frankly it's quite ridiculous


AceDick said:


> @kirihara
> Fallacy #15
> I even posted a link to the obd wiki instead of from wikipedia or some other fallacy list.


Nope it really doesn't work like that or else Toguro would beat people like Goku blababla


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## AceDick (Sep 12, 2011)

Fuck durability. Jigen tou or soulfuckery or mindfuckery outright bypasses it.
@Kurou
Stop it man. Continental level durability is 10000 more than mountain level.
Goku has ki thats get equalised with reiki/youki. What does Accel have?


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

Kirihara said:


> people lower than s-class would die on the crossfire
> they're not going to dodge a bunch of mountain busters, the aoe is too big
> they'll tank their attacks
> rinse and repeat for 5 minutes



Not everyone no. And yes they can get out of the way considering there fucking speed.

And rinse and repeat for 5 minutes? BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP ATTACKING HIM AMIRITE????




> And why are you assuming his vector control wouldn't work
> It only worked on that doctor because he was concentrating on thousands and thousands of virus at that time and can't calculate the vectors to protect him



Do you understand how much energy he was manipulating? If  we take the calcs for it as fact then not only would he be gathering that huge amount of energy he'd be directing it completely becausevwithout it everyone on the planet would die.


Or we dont take greeds theory and all it amounted to was throwing a rock really fast.

Looks like he just lost his best method of attacking

So yeah, pretty sure thats a lot harder than trying to reprogram her or whatever it was. I forget.




> I don't need to dismantle your mountain busters are gonna hurt someone with continental durability argument
> Frankly it's quite ridiculous


So you got nothing.



Whatever. Im done with this.


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## AceDick (Sep 12, 2011)

@Kirihara
'Goku has planet level durability. He can counter Palpatine's mind fuck'
-Morpheus, MVC
'Accel has continental durability. He can counter soul fuck'
-guess who?
This is up there with 'nuke level telepathy' and 'standing at FTL' speed


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

except that toguro's soul fucking abilities absolutely cannot compare to palpatine's
I mean it's not even one of his main offensive techniques


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## OS (Sep 12, 2011)

What's going on in here? 


And Acedic you seem to have a problem with Accelerator.


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## AceDick (Sep 12, 2011)

So? Way to miss the point.
Btw, Accel doesn't compare to Goku either.
Answer me this:
What does continental durability have to do with whether a person can resist soul fuck or not? Physical durability means moot.
Kuwabara beats him anyway so lol at him soloing YYH.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 12, 2011)

kuwabara dies from the crossfire of mountain busters
except that toguro's soulfuck only worked on fodders


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## AceDick (Sep 12, 2011)

It worked on people with low reiki/youki. 
Even with equivalence, Accel's ki shouldn't be higher than that of a human. You can't equalise ki with vector manipulation. 
I mean 'Continent level soulfuckery' doesn't even make sense.
Also, Yomi, Kaito and Amanuma takes care of the reflected attacks. Now what?
@Sin
Keep the implied appeal to motive fallacy outta here.


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## Xelloss (Sep 12, 2011)

Telesma, mana aim tris compose accelerator power also we have already address the mindfuck which you have ignore

At striker his shield is passive with a filter there's no extra calculations at this point, and even so the wings in darkmode do the calculations not him. Which just leave us a dimensional sword and soulfuck but this is moot point and doesn't belong to this thread.


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 12, 2011)

Kirihara said:


> multiverse/omniverse



Yeah, we know.


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 12, 2011)

Dandy Elegance said:


> Yeah, we know.



Then everybody in this thread should start acting like it.


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 12, 2011)

And you should shut up, but you don't.

Has Accelerator done that before? Never heard it mentioned.  Anywhere.  Ever.


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 12, 2011)

Dandy Elegance said:


> And you should shut up, but you don't.
> 
> Has Accelerator done that before? Never heard it mentioned.  Anywhere.  Ever.



his passive shield bends away light.

try again.


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 12, 2011)

That equates to lifewiping how, exactly?


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## AceDick (Sep 12, 2011)

Non sequitur. Non sequitur everywhere.


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 12, 2011)

Eternal Fail.  Failing eternally.  Eternal failure.


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## ~Greed~ (Sep 12, 2011)

~Strike Man~ said:


> They do everytime they fight each other. If they couldnt withstand their own attacks theyd be killing each other left and right. They'd be glass cannons and it isnt like they cant you know, get the fuck out of the way when he redirects there attacks.



I never stated that they would be oneshotted by their own attacks. I was saying that after taking enough of their own attacks they would die. 



> Great, you completely missed the point about it being done casually with the shockwaves of their normal punches.



Ok, do you have a scan of them showing any destructive feats stronger that? Because if that's the best destructive feat, even if it were done with normal punches, then I don't see them being able to get past Acelerator's barrier, or even that natural durability he has in Angel mode.




> He also didnt tank the continent buster as he was severly injured afterward. Crippling him is another way they could beat him.



Ok, how exactly are they going to cripple him? Because mountain level is so far below continent level its not even funny. If they have some better destructive capacity feat than feel free to post it. Also, he wasn't severely injured, he was only knocked unconscious for a few minutes. When he woke up he killed a few mooks and blew up a helicopter iirc.




> I also like the part where you call them "mosquito bites" to him when isnt actually tanking them he's redirecting them. I mean really, do I need to bring up the fact that Touma could punch him out and he was shot in the head?



When he was shot in the head he was using every last bit of his powers to reprogram a human brain. Because of this, his vector field was turned off at that point, and he became a weak normal human. Which ended up with him being shot in the head.

Against Touma, he was only in base form, and IB negated his vector defense, which is why he could punch and hurt him. 

Angel form Accel is the only one with amazing durability without his vector field working.



> Without his vectors his best defensive showing is barely surviving a continent buster (which is impressive, but being severly hurt after it doesnt mean that he wont feel lesser damage, it just means it will take a bit more to kill him) mosquito bites indeed Greed.



He didn't "barely" survive, he was just KO'd for a few minutes. When he woke up he started slaughtering mooks right away. And again, that was against telesma, which is high divine magic used by angels. I don't think anything from YYH is equivalent to that. So his vector field is useful in this match.

I'm sure he would feel damage if country busters were being thrown at him, but the gap between mountains and large continents is so huge that I don't see how mountain level attacks are going to hurt him, no matter how many of them their are.




> Not to mention even if it turns into a battle of attrition he'd still lose.



Why is that? I don't think Accel really has any problems with battery life/the amount of time he can use his powers any more. He seems to have rigged his collar to self recharge or something going by what he said when he was in russia.


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## ~Greed~ (Sep 12, 2011)

Dandy Elegance said:


> That equates to lifewiping how, exactly?



I think he's talking about the wall throwing feat, where Accel stole 5 minutes of the earth's rotational energy, and threw a wall at relativistic speeds. A calc done in some japanese magazine stated that he should have been able to destroy all life on earth, and dry up all of the earth's oceans with that attack, had it been aimed at the ground.

There is some controversy over the feat though.


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## Light (Sep 12, 2011)

Wasn't this just locked?


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## Kurou (Sep 12, 2011)

Still missing my point. You might as well lock the thread because I have no intention of arguing it again. My patience ran out dealing with the two ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) in the corner


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 12, 2011)

~Greed~ said:


> I think he's talking about the wall throwing feat, where Accel stole 5 minutes of the earth's rotational energy, and threw a wall at relativistic speeds. A calc done in some japanese magazine stated that he should have been able to destroy all life on earth, and dry up all of the earth's oceans with that attack, had it been aimed at the ground.
> 
> There is some controversy over the feat though.



Unless I'm mistaken, wasn't that discredited due to the author generally throwing the laws of physics out the window a lot of the time?


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## ~Greed~ (Sep 12, 2011)

Dandy Elegance said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, wasn't that discredited due to the author generally throwing the laws of physics out the window a lot of the time?




Hence why I said _"There is some controversy over the feat though."_, In my quote above.


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## OS (Sep 12, 2011)

It's still proof he can do something with the earths rotation.


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 12, 2011)

~Greed~ said:


> Hence why I said _"There is some controversy over the feat though."_, In my quote above.



Yeah, I know.  I just wanted to make sure I was talking about the same thing.


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## OS (Sep 12, 2011)

Still have it



EDIT- Oh wow thought it was bigger


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 12, 2011)

Awesome.  Moonrunes probably none of us can read.


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## OS (Sep 12, 2011)

Learn bitch


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## Light (Sep 12, 2011)

That's pretty small.


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 12, 2011)

That's what she said about you, right?


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 12, 2011)

Original Sin said:


> Still have it
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT- Oh wow thought it was bigger



I don't have a magnifying glass with moonspeak translator attached.


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## OS (Sep 12, 2011)

Dandy Elegance said:


> That's what she said about you, right?



Well played dandy well played


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## OS (Sep 12, 2011)

Charcan said:


> I don't have a magnifying glass with moonspeak translator attached.



Maybe the Toaru translator wouldn't mind doing it. Actually I believe he did on /a/


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## Light (Sep 12, 2011)

Dandy Elegance said:


> That's what she said about you, right?



Yeah but I was only 4 years old at the time.


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 12, 2011)

Christ, your mother started early on you.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 12, 2011)

Original Sin said:


> Maybe the Toaru translator wouldn't mind doing it. Actually I believe he did on /a/



Better than the scan of TTGL's size being missing for years, I guess.


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## Xelloss (Sep 12, 2011)

Ok lets put this to rest.


----------

