# Current Kakashi vs Edo Madara



## Ashi (Aug 7, 2014)

Both start in PS


Who wins this titanic tussle of titanic titans?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 7, 2014)

If Kakashi's is on the level of Sasuke's (which it really shouldn't be but they _can_ both fly) he wins, but otherwise he'd probably lose


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## Psp123789 (Aug 7, 2014)

Kakashi should lose this unless his PS is the same as sasuke's.


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## Bonly (Aug 7, 2014)

Kakashi doesn't have a sealing jutsu to put Edo Madara down that we know of so either Kakashi manages to suck up Madara to boxland or Edo Madara finish him off eventually


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## Azula (Aug 7, 2014)

Kakashi can now get close to madara by stalemating his susanoo and kamui gg him


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## Lurko (Aug 7, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Kakashi doesn't have a sealing jutsu to put Edo Madara down that we know of so either Kakashi manages to suck up Madara to boxland or Edo Madara finish him off eventually



Kakashi is the fucking copyninja, I'm sure he has an sealing justu.


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## Psp123789 (Aug 7, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Kakashi doesn't have a sealing jutsu to put Edo Madara down that we know of so either Kakashi manages to suck up Madara to boxland or Edo Madara finish him off eventually


Kakashi is the copy ninja that can copy anything that can be copied. 
I'm positive he used his power of copy to copy some sealing jutsu from someone.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 7, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Kakashi is the fucking copyninja, I'm sure he has an sealing justu.



I don't recall them mentioning that fuinjutsu can be copied


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## Legendary Itachi (Aug 7, 2014)

He's the infamous copy cat, soon we"ll find out he's copied Hiraishin, Shikotsumyaku, Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, Kagutsuchi, Shin Jukai Kotan and Sexy no Jutsu from previous battles. Madara can't win against this broken creature.


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## iJutsu (Aug 7, 2014)

Kamui gg. What's the point of this thread? It's so onesided.


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## Psp123789 (Aug 7, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> I don't recall them mentioning that fuinjutsu can be copied


Dude copied PS, he breaks the laws of copying


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## ARGUS (Aug 7, 2014)

Masada wins this


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## Edo Madara (Aug 7, 2014)

Madara can't do shit to intangible Kakashi, to the boxland he goes.


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## Bonly (Aug 7, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Kakashi is the fucking copyninja, I'm sure he has an sealing justu.



Well yeah he canonly used one on Sasuke during the Chunin IIRC. That's why I said "put Edo Madara down" since all sealing jutsu don't work the same and what not. Which would also raise the question why did he wait for others to seal the Edo swordsmen of the mist after he landed a fatal blow when he could've done it himself? But Yeah  



Psp123789 said:


> Kakashi is the copy ninja that can copy anything that can be copied.
> I'm positive he used his power of copy to copy some sealing jutsu from someone.



That's pretty neat that he has the power to copy sealing jutsu. Doesn't change the fact that he doesn't have one to stop an Edo as far as we know but neat nonetheless I guess.


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## Bkprince33 (Aug 7, 2014)

Imo kakashi doesn't  have the stamina to fight even a healthy EMS Madara, i guess we just have to wait and see, but if his stamina feats are the same then i give it to mads mid to high difficulty, power wise he seems very hax tho give him a stamina boost and i see him fucking shyt up.


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## Sauce (Aug 7, 2014)

Since we haven't seen it in action we can only it assume it has to be stronger than Sasuke PS to even stand a chance.


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## Ruse (Aug 7, 2014)

Madara wins this


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## richard lewis (Aug 7, 2014)

Not sure why kakashi would need a sealing jutsu in the first place? In order to seal Madara he would have to wound him first and seal him b4 his body regenerates I'd imagine it would be easier to just kamui him. 

Anyway this fight depends on how much stamina kakashi has. If he can spam kamui and PS them he should be able to win high diff, however if he still has trouble using kamui like he used to and can only maintain susanoo for a brief amount of time then Madara would win. However I suspect it's the former b/c kishi wouldn't give kakashi a powered up like this just to have him lack the stamina to use it efficiently. We will have to wait for the next few chapters to know for sure though.


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## Empathy (Aug 7, 2014)

With Rinnegan, mokuton, unlimited chakra and an invulnerable body, Madara should win, but he also should've won against Hashirama during the war. If Edo Madara behaves like he normally does, then he'll probably lose. Madara can still win if _Kamui_ can be absorbed or depending on how long Kakashi can maintain his _Susanoo_. Without Uchiha DNA, Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, or unlimited chakra reserves, he shouldn't last long at all, but we'll have to wait and see because the author could just disregard all of that.


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## richard lewis (Aug 7, 2014)

Empathy said:


> With Rinnegan, mokuton, unlimited chakra and an invulnerable body, Madara should win, but he also should've won against Hashirama during the war. If Edo Madara behaves like he normally does, then he'll probably lose. Madara can still win if _Kamui_ can be absorbed or depending on how long Kakashi can maintain his _Susanoo_. Without Uchiha DNA, Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, or unlimited chakra reserves, he shouldn't last long at all, but we'll have to wait and see because the author could just disregard all of that.



I don't really see how kamui could be absorbed? And kakashi's PS appears to be much fast than madara's.


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## Edo Madara (Aug 7, 2014)

Kamui can't be absorbed and Madara cant do shit against intangible Kakashi,  kamui and ps are combo of perfect defense.


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## Garcher (Aug 7, 2014)

Remember when Kakashi almost died after using Kamui 2 times? He may have improved, but think about how much stress the ripcage Susanoo put on Sasuke's body, who is an Uchiha. 

At this rate, Madara has just to stall him for less than a minute and Kakashi will collapse


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## Empathy (Aug 7, 2014)

richard lewis said:


> I don't really see how kamui could be absorbed? And kakashi's PS appears to be much fast than madara's.



Is there a particular reason why it couldn't? Kakashi's _Susanoo_ has barely moved so far.


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## Edo Madara (Aug 7, 2014)

Empathy said:


> Is there a particular reason why it couldn't? Kakashi's _Susanoo_ has barely moved so far.



You tell me how Kamui can be absorbed, let's say Kakashi send Madara to boxland, how madara absorbing it can prevent him from getting transport into box land?


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## Empathy (Aug 7, 2014)

If he's already transported to the other dimension, then it'd be too late to absorb anything. But he should be able to absorb the barrier before that happens.


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## Amol (Aug 7, 2014)

There is no such thing as chakra limit in this Manga now . Our Kakashi would have instantly died because of chakra depletion. But now Intangible PS with Kamui and dat Sakumo DNA Kakashi stomps Madara.


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## Destiny Monarch (Aug 7, 2014)

Madara uses Kajukai Korin and then makes 25 Mokuton Clones and goes back to watch the fight. Kakashi runs out of stamina to sustain PS after battling the 25 Clones and falls into the sleeping gas forest where he gets knocked out and Madara comes up to his body to finish him off. GG.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 7, 2014)

Empathy said:


> but he also should've won against Hashirama during the war. If Edo Madara behaves like he normally does, then he'll probably lose.



Unlike Madara, Hashirama was restored at virtually full power.


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## richard lewis (Aug 7, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Madara uses Kajukai Korin and then makes 25 Mokuton Clones and goes back to watch the fight. Kakashi runs out of stamina to sustain PS after battling the 25 Clones and falls into the sleeping gas forest where he gets knocked out and Madara comes up to his body to finish him off. GG.



Kakashi could just phase through everything and attack Madara directly. In all honesty he doesn't really have much need for PS here when he has kamui, I suppose he could use it to land a final blow, but besides that it would just be a waste of his chakra.


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## richard lewis (Aug 7, 2014)

Empathy said:


> Is there a particular reason why it couldn't? Kakashi's _Susanoo_ has barely moved so far.



Kamui is just a wormhole basically, it's not made of chakra. chakra is required to produce it but it has no substance it's a door way to another dimension so there's nothing to absorb.

Kakashi's susanoo was shown to move rather quickly to save Sakura. And let's not forget they are fighting on a planet with 10X earths gravity, so on earth his susanoo has gotta have Ei lvl speed.


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## Edo Madara (Aug 7, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Madara uses Kajukai Korin and then makes 25 Mokuton Clones and goes back to watch the fight. Kakashi runs out of stamina to sustain PS after battling the 25 Clones and falls into the sleeping gas forest where he gets knocked out and Madara comes up to his body to finish him off. GG.



Since real Madara don't fight, Kakashi will just hide in boxland then appear behind real madara and kamui him.


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## Destiny Monarch (Aug 7, 2014)

Edo Madara said:


> Since real Madara don't fight, Kakashi will just hide in boxland then appear behind real madara and kamui him.



Won't work, like I said, Kajukai Korin. 



richard lewis said:


> Kakashi could just phase through everything and attack Madara directly. In all honesty he doesn't really have much need for PS here when he has kamui, I suppose he could use it to land a final blow, but besides that it would just be a waste of his chakra.



He cant materialize while Kajukai Korin is up, his only counter to it is PS. And once he is in PS he will have to go through 25 other Susano'O's before he can even hope to get to the real Madara. And considering the fact that Kakashi is a Non-Uchiha, having MS activated on top of activating PS will be much too chakra draining for Kakashi to have PS up for anymore then 5-10min. And once PS is gone he falls back down to the ground and gets knocked out by the sleeping gaz.


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## BlackDuck (Aug 7, 2014)

Kakashi's chakra reserves must have massively increased in order to hold something like Perfect Susanoo together.


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## Destiny Monarch (Aug 7, 2014)

BlackDuck said:


> Kakashi's chakra reserves must have massively increased in order to hold something like Perfect Susanoo together.



They have, but they are going to need a other massive increase if he wants to actually sustain it for long.


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## richard lewis (Aug 7, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Won't work, like I said, Kajukai Korin.
> 
> 
> 
> He cant materialize while Kajukai Korin is up, his only counter to it is PS. And once he is in PS he will have to go through 25 other Susano'O's before he can even hope to get to the real Madara. And considering the fact that Kakashi is a Non-Uchiha, having MS activated on top of activating PS will be much too chakra draining for Kakashi to have PS up for anymore then 5-10min. And once PS is gone he falls back down to the ground and gets knocked out by the sleeping gaz.



Kakashi can simply teleport to box land and wait for the poison has to clear out and then teleport back. Why would you assume he can only hold PS for 5-10 minutes? We have no clue how long he can maintain it, or how long Madara can maintain it for that matter.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 7, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Unlike Madara, Hashirama was restored at virtually full power.


Actually. Madara had a more complete Edo Tensei than Hashirama. Madara wasn't even trying to win that fight, he was just buying time for Obito to be weakened so Black Zetsu could revive him.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 7, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Actually. Madara had a more complete Edo Tensei than Hashirama. Madara wasn't even trying to win that fight, he was just buying time for Obito to be weakened so Black Zetsu could revive him.



Hashirama's disagrees.


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## Empathy (Aug 7, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Unlike Madara, Hashirama was
> restored at virtually full power.



Kabuto stated he brought Madara back in a state greater than his prime, and Madara didn't have much reason to contest it. There was a notable difference in aptitude when Madara was revived and could feel the blood-rush of battle again. He was a lot more proactive when he was revived while Edo Madara rarely gave much effort. 



richard lewis said:


> Kamui is just a wormhole basically, it's not made of chakra. chakra is required to produce it but it has no substance it's a door way to another dimension so there's nothing to absorb.



Do you have any tangible proof that the portal itself does not contain chakra? The third databook explicitly calls it a ninjutsu that creates a barrier around it's target to send to another dimension; all of that entails that it's a ninjutsu composed of chakra, and thus susceptible to absorption. 



> Kakashi's susanoo was shown to move rather quickly to save Sakura. And let's not forget they are fighting on a planet with 10X earths gravity, so on earth his susanoo has gotta have Ei lvl speed.



It was a pretty swift save, but nothing to indicate it's speed outclasses Madara's already. They're no longer on the gravity dimension, I reckon. Your point would have some merit if they were still on the gravity dimension, but you're wrong.


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## richard lewis (Aug 7, 2014)

Empathy said:


> If he's already transported to the other dimension, then it'd be too late to absorb anything. But he should be able to absorb the barrier before that happens.



The Barrier is just a door way, there is nothing for him to absorb. suck up Minato please explain how Madara absorbs something like that? It's not made out of chakra. It's the same principal as minato's S/T barrier, if minato teleport Madara he can't absorb being teleported LMAO. If kakashi/minato teleported an attack at him he could absorb the attack be he can't absorb the S/T jutsu itself b/c it's not made out of chakra.


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## Hachibi (Aug 7, 2014)

Funny, since Kamui worked on the Gudodama here: suck up Minato


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 7, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Hashirama's disagrees.


I think that was a mistranslation, the manga went on that Madara was more powerful than he was in his prime as an Edo Tensei.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 7, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Madara uses Kajukai Korin and then makes 25 Mokuton Clones and goes back to watch the fight. Kakashi runs out of stamina to sustain PS after battling the 25 Clones and falls into the sleeping gas forest where he gets knocked out and Madara comes up to his body to finish him off. GG.


25 Mokuton Bushin's with Full Bodied Susano'o's will be destroyed with one slash of Kakashi's Perfect Susano'o. The fire power to durability difference is just that great.


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## J★J♥ (Aug 7, 2014)

Aikuro said:


> Remember when Kakashi almost died after using Kamui 2 times? He may have improved, but think about how much stress the ripcage Susanoo put on Sasuke's body, who is an Uchiha.
> 
> At this rate, Madara has just to stall him for less than a minute and Kakashi will collapse



Remember the time when Kakashi was in coma because he looked through sharingan eye for a minute ?


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## emanresu (Aug 8, 2014)

scarred eye susanoo rapes other PS


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## Edo Madara (Aug 8, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Won't work, like I said, Kajukai Korin.
> 
> 
> 
> He cant materialize while Kajukai Korin is up, his only counter to it is PS. And once he is in PS he will have to go through 25 other Susano'O's before he can even hope to get to the real Madara. And considering the fact that Kakashi is a Non-Uchiha, having MS activated on top of activating PS will be much too chakra draining for Kakashi to have PS up for anymore then 5-10min. And once PS is gone he falls back down to the ground and gets knocked out by the sleeping gaz.



There's no reason that Kakashi can't use normal susanoo and be intangible with them


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## Raiken (Aug 8, 2014)

Kakashi looses. His PS is about the same size as Sasuke's, which is Bijuu Sized.
Madara's was shown to be at least 2 or 3 times the size of a Bijuu. Plus he has Mokuton and the Rinnegan.
Even with Kamui, Kakashi Looses.


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## JuicyG (Aug 8, 2014)

Edo Madara  probably wins...

But I see this as Edo Madar>PS+Kamui Kakashi>>>EMS Madara


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## richard lewis (Aug 8, 2014)

Empathy said:


> Do you have any tangible proof that the portal itself does not contain chakra? The third databook explicitly calls it a ninjutsu that creates a barrier around it's target to send to another dimension; all of that entails that it's a ninjutsu composed of chakra, and thus susceptible to absorption.



Do you have tangible proof that it is composed of chakra? The simple fact that the black orbs where able to shut down Amaterasu but couldn't shut down kamui suggests that it works differently from most ninjutsu/dojutsu. A barrier is just a fancy word for a doorway. It's like minato s/t barrier, the barrier isn't made of chakra, in fact it isn't made of anything, it's just a doorway connecting one location to another. The fact that an object can move through it suggests that it isn't made of anything b/c if it were then You wouldn't be able to walk through it IMO. It's like a black hole, a black hole requires nuclear energy to form but it's not made of nuclear energy, it's not made of anything. It's a HOLE in space time and if you fall in you'll pop out somewhere else.



Empathy said:


> It was a pretty swift save, but nothing to indicate it's speed outclasses Madara's already. They're no longer on the gravity dimension, I reckon. Your point would have some merit if they were still on the gravity dimension, but you're wrong.



I reread the chapter and you are correct they actually did transport to another dimension. I stand corrected.


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## Destiny Monarch (Aug 8, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> 25 Mokuton Bushin's with Full Bodied Susano'o's will be destroyed with one slash of Kakashi's Perfect Susano'o. The fire power to durability difference is just that great.



Really? Would you mind showing me this destructiveness of Kakashis PS that you speak off? 



Edo Madara said:


> There's no reason that Kakashi can't use normal susanoo and be intangible with them



He would need to use a Susano'O big enough to be out of range of the pollen. And he can't make his Susano'O intangible, even if he did, what difference would that take in avoiding the pollen?  



richard lewis said:


> Kakashi can simply teleport to box land and wait for the poison has to clear out and then teleport back. Why would you assume he can only hold PS for 5-10 minutes? We have no clue how long he can maintain it, or how long Madara can maintain it for that matter.



The Pollen wont go away, there are hundreds of flowers that would release that pollen everywhere, Kakashi wont know at what time to come back. Madara goes and hides inside the Mokuton and waits for him to come back and then kills him. Assuming he can hold it for any more then that would be far worse of an assumption. Madara can hold it for FAR longer then Kakashi, and he won't even need his PS to beat Kakashi.


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## Hachibi (Aug 8, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Really? Would you mind showing me this destructiveness of Kakashis PS that you speak off?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Come on, you know he gonna give praise to Kakashi for lasting that long by showing him his trump card


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## richard lewis (Aug 8, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Really? Would you mind showing me this destructiveness of Kakashis PS that you speak off?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LMAO kakashi will just teleport far enough away from the flowers to where the pollen Won't effect him, the radius of the pollen jutsu is massive bit is still finite. Pollen isn't going to be ending this fight.


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## Blu-ray (Aug 8, 2014)

Is this really what this manga has come to.. Kakashi wins, weird as hell as it seems. Unless Kishi trolls like he did with Minato's sage mode. Remember how we thought it was as good and Naruto's only to find out its the shittiest in the manga?


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## egressmadara (Aug 8, 2014)

Year of Kakashi 

Kakashi's hidden ability: The more useless he thinks he is, the more powerful he's gonna get.


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## Mercurial (Aug 8, 2014)

Kamui GG seals the deal and Madara gets solod by the Solo Emperor.


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## Destiny Monarch (Aug 8, 2014)

richard lewis said:


> LMAO kakashi will just teleport far enough away from the flowers to where the pollen Won't effect him, the radius of the pollen jutsu is massive bit is still finite. Pollen isn't going to be ending this fight.



Kakashi will not be doing such a thing. If he does, Madara leaves to do something better, like destroy Konoha.

With no intel, Kakashi won't even know what hit him.


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## richard lewis (Aug 8, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Kakashi will not be doing such a thing. If he does, Madara leaves to do something better, like destroy Konoha.
> 
> With no intel, Kakashi won't even know what hit him.



This is just a one on one fight, nowhere does it say kakashi is trying to protect konoha or anyone else. If that where the case then things would be different. Also the pollen doesn't take effect instantly, the kage where able to use a few jutsu b4 succumbing to its effects and even then it only worked on onoki for like 15 seconds at which point he was able to nuke the whole forest with jinton. Your wanking the pollen jutsu a little to hard bro. I don't even think kakashi would win BTW, I just think it would take more than the pollen jutsu to kill him.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 8, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Really? Would you mind showing me this destructiveness of Kakashis PS that you speak off?


Its basic power scaling. Kakashi's Perfect Susano'o should be at least as strong as EMS Madara's, which is powerful enough to flick away his Mokuton Clones. Seriously, the power difference between Perfect Susano'o and Full bodied Susano'o are apparent even without feats.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 8, 2014)

"I already told you, your juvinial jutsu won't work on -  WHY DOES YOURS HAVE WINGS!?"


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 8, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> "I already told you, your juvinial jutsu won't work on -  WHY DOES YOURS HAVE WINGS!?"


Hehehehehehe, YEAH. Kakashi's feat does include at least flight. And we can powerscale power. So Kakashi has a good chance of beating Madara in this scenario.


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## Destiny Monarch (Aug 8, 2014)

richard lewis said:


> This is just a one on one fight, nowhere does it say kakashi is trying to protect konoha or anyone else. If that where the case then things would be different. Also the pollen doesn't take effect instantly, the kage where able to use a few jutsu b4 succumbing to its effects and even then it only worked on onoki for like 15 seconds at which point he was able to nuke the whole forest with jinton. Your wanking the pollen jutsu a little to hard bro. I don't even think kakashi would win BTW, I just think it would take more than the pollen jutsu to kill him.



He doesn't have to, I'm just saying, if Kakashi is allowed to go out of the battlefield (Which Kajukai Korin will undoubtably cover) without loosing by default then Madara should be allowed to leave wherever he wants too and he match will be a stalemate. Basically, if the only option you have for Kakashi to counter the Jutsu is too run away from the battle, you should try harder. The Kages where outside its range until they to knocked down, at which point they where starting to slowly pass out, keep in mind that they actually had intel on the pollen whereas Kakashi wouldn't. And Kakashi has not displayed Oonoki's level of willpower. 

The Pollen can KO almost anyone without intel on it. I'm not wanking it, its just that OP. 



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Its basic power scaling. Kakashi's Perfect Susano'o should be at least as strong as EMS Madara's, which is powerful enough to flick away his Mokuton Clones. Seriously, the power difference between Perfect Susano'o and Full bodied Susano'o are apparent even without feats.



No offence, but your basic power scaling is not exactly reliable.


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## richard lewis (Aug 8, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> He doesn't have to, I'm just saying, if Kakashi is allowed to go out of the battlefield (Which Kajukai Korin will undoubtably cover) without loosing by default then Madara should be allowed to leave wherever he wants too and he match will be a stalemate. Basically, if the only option you have for Kakashi to counter the Jutsu is too run away from the battle, you should try harder. The Kages where outside its range until they to knocked down, at which point they where starting to slowly pass out, keep in mind that they actually had intel on the pollen whereas Kakashi wouldn't. And Kakashi has not displayed Oonoki's level of willpower.
> 
> The Pollen can KO almost anyone without intel on it. I'm not wanking it.



Well you've gotta be reasonable here. If mei for example fills up a room with acid mist and her opponents leave the room to escape the mist that's not forfeiting. If it is then That means mei can beat a lot of people that are stronger than her simply b/c the wouldn't be allowed to escape her jutsu due to a "ring out" violation. 

Madara stated himself that when he goes all out the entire map will have to be redrawn due to the scalp of his power. When your fight a guy like that you've gotta expand the size of the battlefield"within reason that is" otherwise he can beat almost anyone sense they aren't allowed to leave the AOE of his attacks. I'm not saying kakashi is gunna warp so far away that Madara can't reach him. Just far enough that the pollen won't insta kill him.


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## Destiny Monarch (Aug 8, 2014)

richard lewis said:


> Well you've gotta be reasonable here. If mei for example fills up a room with acid mist and her opponents leave the room to escape the mist that's not forfeiting. If it is then That means mei can beat a lot of people that are stronger than her simply b/c the wouldn't be allowed to escape her jutsu due to a "ring out" violation.



If Mei's acid was the size of the battlefield then its too bad for her opponent. If there is a specific location as the setting, they shouldn't be able to leave the location. Otherwise Minato with prep would be unbeatable 



> Madara stated himself that when he goes all out the entire map will have to be redrawn due to the scalp of his power. When your fight a guy like that you've gotta expand the size of the battlefield"within reason that is" otherwise he can beat almost anyone sense they aren't allowed to leave the AOE of his attacks. I'm not saying kakashi is gunna warp so far away that Madara can't reach him. Just far enough that the pollen won't insta kill him.



That's giving Kakashi perks. If its going to be that way, then you might as well state in the OP that Kakashi is allowed to leave the battlefield. 

Madara covered the entire "Madara vs 5 Kage" battleground with Kajukai Korin. If the location is the Madara Vs 5 Kage battlefield then the character shouldn't be allowed to leave it.


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## richard lewis (Aug 8, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> If Mei's acid was the size of the battlefield then its too bad for her opponent. If there is a specific location as the setting, they shouldn't be able to leave the location. Otherwise Minato with prep would be unbeatable



I don't get your logic here, going by what you said minato would be unbeatable, going be what I said he wouldn't. If minato has a room complete cover in FTG tags his opponent should be allowed to leave the room to resume the fight in a more favorable environment.

I mean going by your logic hanzo could potentially beat minato. If hanzo floods the area with poison and minato isn't allowed to leave the area minato looses



Destiny Monarch said:


> That's giving Kakashi perks. If its going to be that way, then you might as well state in the OP that Kakashi is allowed to leave the battlefield.
> 
> Madara covered the entire "Madara vs 5 Kage" battleground with Kajukai Korin. If the location is the Madara Vs 5 Kage battlefield then the character shouldn't be allowed to leave it.



First of the pollen didn't cover every inch of the battle field [1] Madara leaped up to a high location to avoid the pollen kakashi can do the same thing. Also the pollen didn't even stun onoki long enough for Madara to move in and land a finishing blow so I doubt it could stub kakashi long enough either.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 8, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> No offence, but your basic power scaling is not exactly reliable.


Why not in this case? Its the same fucking technique. All that is different about Kakashi's is that Kakashi's can fly while Madara's cannot. Give me one good reason why it would be weaker.


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## Bloo (Aug 9, 2014)

I highly doubt Kakashi would have the stamina to fight a Madara Uchiha with an unlimited amount of chakra, even if we provide Kakashi with feats he's yet to display.


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## Lurko (Aug 9, 2014)

Bloo said:


> I highly doubt Kakashi would have the stamina to fight a Madara Uchiha with an unlimited amount of chakra, even if we provide Kakashi with feats he's yet to display.



He doesn't need to when Kamui snipe is his primary choice.


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## Edo Madara (Aug 9, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> He would need to use a Susano'O big enough to be out of range of the pollen. And he can't make his Susano'O intangible, even if he did, what difference would that take in avoiding the pollen?



Why he need to get out of the range? He's intangible, he have oxygen from boxland. He can make any of his body parts or even susano itself to be intangible. He just need to get near to Madara which is very easy with kamui and send him to boxland.


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## Santoryu (Aug 9, 2014)

Nice Kakashi sig yo.

I dunno; isn't the gravity pretty crazy in the dimension they are fighting in at the moment? Powerscaling would suggest Kakashi is the outright inner-his single version of Kamui was efficient enough to outdo Obito and impressed a stronger version of Madara? Coupled with another Sharingan/EMS/Perfect Susano, there really isn't much to debate? Another thing that's neglected is that Kakashi is the better tactician, for all of Madara's knowledge and experience, the Copy-Ninja could outdo him strategically.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 9, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I think that was a mistranslation, the manga went on that Madara was more powerful than he was in his prime as an Edo Tensei.



Hashirama said Madara has regained his full might i.e. he wasn't at full power when he was an Edo Tensei. Easily supported by the manga: as an ET he couldn't do anything to Hashirama's seal; moments after being alive he easily broke out of it.


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## Lord Aizen (Aug 9, 2014)

richard lewis said:


> Kakashi could just phase through everything and attack Madara directly. In all honesty he doesn't really have much need for PS here when he has kamui, I suppose he could use it to land a final blow, but besides that it would just be a waste of his chakra.



No he cannot do that. The 25 clones will follow kakashi for over 5 minutes till he cannot phase anymore then kakashi is done. Long range kamui is useless as madara has used the technique himself and knows how's it works. Madara can create more clones and if kakashi warps any of them he's doomed.  The clones kakashi warps will mess him up from kamui land and madara will rape him from the normal world


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## Lord Aizen (Aug 9, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> Kamui GG seals the deal and Madara gets solod by the Solo Emperor.



Kamui is useless against madara. His wood clones will get kamui'd instead and GG


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## kakashiku (Aug 9, 2014)

Lord Aizen said:


> No he cannot do that. The 25 clones will follow kakashi for over 5 minutes till he cannot phase anymore then kakashi is done. Long range kamui is useless as madara has used the technique himself and knows how's it works. Madara can create more clones and if kakashi warps any of them he's doomed. The clones kakashi warps will mess him up from kamui land and madara will rape him from the normal world



Couldn't agree more.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 9, 2014)

Lord Aizen said:


> No he cannot do that. The 25 clones will follow kakashi for over 5 minutes till he cannot phase anymore then kakashi is done. Long range kamui is useless as madara has used the technique himself and knows how's it works. Madara can create more clones and if kakashi warps any of them he's doomed.  The clones kakashi warps will mess him up from kamui land and madara will rape him from the normal world


Shouldn't the clones be useless? Kakashi can tell the difference since Madara himself said that Mokuton Bushins can be seen through via the Sharingan. And if Kakashi warps the clones to different points, they'd be falling apart since they'd be separated from the medium that created them. No wood in the box dimension.

Not to mention Kakashi can destroy all 25 with just a single slash from his Perfect Susano'o.


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## Destiny Monarch (Aug 9, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Why not in this case? Its the same fucking technique. All that is different about Kakashi's is that Kakashi's can fly while Madara's cannot. Give me one good reason why it would be weaker.



Kakashi's PS is a lot smaller then Madaras. 



richard lewis said:


> I don't get your logic here, going by what you said minato would be unbeatable, going be what I said he wouldn't. If minato has a room complete cover in FTG tags his opponent should be allowed to leave the room to resume the fight in a more favorable environment.
> 
> I mean going by your logic hanzo could potentially beat minato. If hanzo floods the area with poison and minato isn't allowed to leave the area minato looses



Minato places a tag in Konoha with Prep and leaves the battlefield he is fighting on because he can...........

Hanzō does not have battlefield covering poison. 





> first of the pollen didn't cover every inch of the battle field [1] Madara leaped up to a high location to avoid the pollen kakashi can do the same thing. Also the pollen didn't even stun onoki long enough for Madara to move in and land a finishing blow so I doubt it could stub kakashi long enough either.



It did not go very high but it spread out across the battlefield. Madara stayed on his rock, is Kakashi going to stay on a rock? 

Like I said, Oonoki has far more will power then Kakashi, Kakashi will be in the same position as the other 4 Kages.


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## Empathy (Aug 10, 2014)

Santoryu said:


> I dunno; isn't the gravity pretty crazy in the dimension they are fighting in at the moment?



This is wrong.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 10, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Kakashi's PS is a lot smaller then Madaras.


How can you be sure? They look to be about the same size. Perfect Susano'o itself seems to have a uniformed size.

If you have proof, show it. Otherwise all you're doing is speculating based on your preconceptions.


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## ShinobisWill (Aug 10, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> How can you be sure? They look to be about the same size. Perfect Susano'o itself seems to have a uniformed size.
> 
> If you have proof, show it. Otherwise all you're doing is speculating based on your preconceptions.



They are the same size. Sasuke's is as big as Madara's and Kakashi's is as big as Sasuke's.

And they want to relive their glory days

And they want to relive their glory days


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 10, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Shouldn't the clones be useless? Kakashi can tell the difference since Madara himself said that Mokuton Bushins can be seen through via the Sharingan. And if Kakashi warps the clones to different points, they'd be falling apart since they'd be separated from the medium that created them. No wood in the box dimension.
> 
> Not to mention Kakashi can destroy all 25 with just a single slash from his Perfect Susano'o.



Madara said _he_ could see the difference between clones and originals. 

Also what stops the 25 Moku Bunshins from using Perfect Susanoo?


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## ShinobisWill (Aug 10, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Madara said _he_ could see the difference between clones and originals.
> *
> Also what stops the 25 Moku Bunshins from using Perfect Susanoo?*



Feats, for one. He's never used any bunshins with Perfect Susano'o (and we know edo tensei's have limits in using so much chakra at once now). Until he does, he can't. In the same vein though, we can't assume how long Kakashi's chakra will hold up in this fight either.

It's too hard to call who wins this one with just a single chapter


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## Trojan (Aug 10, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Why not in this case? Its the same fucking technique. All that is different about Kakashi's is that Kakashi's can fly while Madara's cannot. Give me one good reason why it would be weaker.



Same jutsu =/= same power. Kakashi's PS is from a normal MS, and Madara's is from EMS. 



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Hashirama said Madara has regained his full might i.e. he wasn't at full power when he was an Edo Tensei. Easily supported by the manga: as an ET he couldn't do anything to Hashirama's seal; moments after being alive he easily broke out of it.



Hashirama's statement is based on ignorance. 
he is not the one who was fixing Madara's body, is he?  

It was stated several time that Edo Madara is beyond his living self,  which even madara did not disagree with when Kabuto made the statement.


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## Hachibi (Aug 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Same jutsu =/= same power. Kakashi's PS is from a normal MS, and Madara's is from EMS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, not really.


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## Trojan (Aug 10, 2014)

Ok? 
What does that prove exactly?

that he was waiting to fight normally and can feel the blood and Pain? 
he is still stronger when he was Edo than his living self as stated clearly in the manga by the one who used him
as "Rat experiments" so to speak. On the other hand, Hashirama thought he killed madara in their battle, and that
shows clearly his ignorance in the matter. 

there are only 4 ET who were stated to be weaker than their living self, which they are the Edo Hokages. Only.


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## Hachibi (Aug 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Ok?
> What does that prove exactly?
> 
> that he was waiting to fight normally and can feel the blood and Pain?
> ...



Isn't that because he already got the power-up that Kabuto thought he just added to him (and got in his old age) 

It was to prove that while Edo Madara was pinned by God Gate, Revived Madara got easily out of it and he wasn't even SM powered.
I don't blame him, after all,who though he could use Izanagi that last for several hours 
3 actually, since Minato got brought back with KCM and BM


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