# Official UFC/MMA discussion - Part 1



## Ippy (Oct 29, 2011)

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is *Here*

This is the thread to discuss the fastest growing sport in the world, Mixed Martial Arts (MMA).

Come here to discuss upcoming events, fighters, dream matches, controversies, and all things MMA.

Major MMA organizations:
 (the Microsoft of MMA)
WEC (the Linux of MMA)
 (has most of the best lightweights in the world)
World Victory Road: Sengoku (good promotion, with some up and comers)
M1 Global (puts on exciting fights on HDNet)
Strikeforce (recently expanded, and a good solid promotion)

Move aside, boxing!


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## Gallic Rush (Oct 29, 2011)

I honestly thought BJ's stamina would hold up a little longer into the second round. Still never got dropped though. Matter of fact, I don't think I even saw his knees wobble once.


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## eHav (Oct 29, 2011)

i know right, he just seemed to realy slow down abruptly in round 2 after taking round 1 comfortably


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## Aokiji (Oct 29, 2011)

Man fuck, at least he has balls.

Hey his haters are gonna find a way to spin this against him. 

Seriously though, I hope he sticks to it.


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## Gallic Rush (Oct 29, 2011)

Frankly, BJ's retirement is not nearly as ugly as Cro Cop's anyways. That beating he took tonight... man, some day all those t/ko's are going to catch up with him.

BJ on the other hand will probably be slurping down poi while fondly reminiscing about the past 50 years from now completely lucid.


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## Tiger (Oct 29, 2011)

Great fight for Nick. I was really hoping he'd be the first to knock BJ down - but then when Penn said he was done, I kinda changed my mind and was glad he didn't.

Sounds like GSP is asking Dana to fight Diaz first instead of Condit after Diaz called him out, lol - I can't wait.


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## Gallic Rush (Oct 29, 2011)

That would be hilarious considering Condit agreed to not fight tonight under the impression that he was guaranteed to fight GSP when GSP recovered.

Should have learned from Rashad's stupid ass mistake and just fought Diaz tonight.


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## Tiger (Oct 29, 2011)

Will Dana screw over Condit to push a much more interesting fight?  Does a dog lick his own balls?

By your statement, I'm guessing you think GSP wasn't actually hurt?


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## Aokiji (Oct 30, 2011)

I think that BJ could've shot more.

Didn't expect Diaz to be so heavy handed. Then again, people exeggarate chins and underestimate power. You get cracked flush by Cruz, you can still go down, no matter how feather fisted somebody is.


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## Violent by Design (Oct 30, 2011)

bj penn took a beating, how was his chin exaggerated? 

nick diaz isn't pillow handed in the slightest. he just doesn't throw a ton of power punches in till he has his opponent against the fence.


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## Aokiji (Oct 30, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> bj penn took a beating, how was his chin exaggerated?
> 
> nick diaz isn't pillow handed in the slightest.



Not BJ's chin in particular I mean how people act as if, just because some are better than other at taking punishment, they are immune to getting KTFO after getting socked repeatedly. Or how pillowhanded guys can't knock anybody out. (ask Maynard)

And Nick Diaz WAS considered featherfisted by pretty much most people I have seen. Well, stupid is as stupid does. : D

I wanted to drop some money on him.  FUCK


Also, lol Sherdog.


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## Gallic Rush (Oct 30, 2011)

Law said:


> Will Dana screw over Condit to push a much more interesting fight?  Does a dog lick his own balls?
> 
> By your statement, I'm guessing you think GSP wasn't actually hurt?



Nah, that's not what I meant. I was referring to Rashad taking time off while Shogun was injured because he thought he was guaranteed a shot at Shogun. Course, Rashad ended up getting injured and totally fucked himself over in the process.

I could definitely see Condit going through the same thing. Either through an injury or Diaz getting the fight. I think he might murder someone though if Diaz just straight up gets handed the fight. 



Violent By Design said:


> bj penn took a beating, how was his chin exaggerated?
> 
> nick diaz isn't pillow handed in the slightest. he just doesn't throw a ton of power punches in till he has his opponent against the fence.



I have said before and I still believe Penn has the best chin in MMA. Although, since he's retired I guess he no longer counts.







BTW, how is there not more outrage at the Mitrione vs Kongo decision? 30-27 for Kongo? What the fuck is that shit? At least when Machida backs up he throws counters. Kongo didn't do shit in the first round at all, and pretty clearly got out struck in the second.


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## Gallic Rush (Oct 30, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Not BJ's chin in particular I mean how people act as if, just because some are better than other at taking punishment, they are immune to getting KTFO after getting socked repeatedly. Or how pillowhanded guys can't knock anybody out. (ask Maynard)
> 
> And Nick Diaz WAS considered featherfisted by pretty much most people I have seen. Well, stupid is as stupid does. : D
> 
> ...



Maynard has pillow fists? What the fuck are you talking about? He's got heavy hands he just relies on his wrestling most of the time.


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## Shozan (Oct 30, 2011)

Is really sad seeing Mirko reteiring, really sad! I'm going to miss those kicks to the head!

BJ's official?


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## Violent by Design (Oct 30, 2011)

Well, BJ said flat out he's not going to fight; so I guess it is official. But he might have just been high on emotion. 



Gallic Rush said:


> Nah, that's not what I meant. I was referring to Rashad taking time off while Shogun was injured because he thought he was guaranteed a shot at Shogun. Course, Rashad ended up getting injured and totally fucked himself over in the process.
> 
> I could definitely see Condit going through the same thing. Either through an injury or Diaz getting the fight. I think he might murder someone though if Diaz just straight up gets handed the fight.
> 
> ...




I don't have any stats, but I'm pretty sure Kongo landed more than Mitrione. Matt didn't do anything either, just a lot of stalking.


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## Gallic Rush (Oct 30, 2011)

I dunno, I could have been biased, I'll check the numbers later. I'm almost positive he got that second round though.

Anyways, funny how so many people are interested in the post fight presser and they're not streaming it tonight. And by funny, I mean FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-


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## Aokiji (Oct 30, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Nah, that's not what I meant. I was referring to Rashad taking time off while Shogun was injured because he thought he was guaranteed a shot at Shogun. Course, Rashad ended up getting injured and totally fucked himself over in the process.
> 
> I could definitely see Condit going through the same thing. Either through an injury or Diaz getting the fight. I think he might murder someone though if Diaz just straight up gets handed the fight.
> 
> ...



No he didn't. Sure, if you consider those few punches that Meathead landed massive power punches that caused some real damage to Kongo, he might have outstruck him, but nothing clear. And Kongo landed just enough to win the 1st. 



Gallic Rush said:


> Maynard has pillow fists? What the fuck are you talking about? He's got heavy hands he just relies on his wrestling most of the time.



EDGAR has pillow fists, Maynard is the guy who got KTFO by him...



Also, why do Sherdog scum always talk as is boxing is not fighting? 

Sorry, I feel the need to vent my annoyance.


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## Lucifer Morningstar (Oct 30, 2011)

NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK!!! Won $500 today on the main event!

Beat that friend into retirement. Props to BJ, though how the fight went was no surprise. Maybe Nick will start getting more respect/credit now. He's lucky they didn't go 5 rounds. 

If he does retire, and wasn't just being stubborn/emotional, then I hope he has a good life and we still hear from him occasionally. Not going to be the same without BJ.

Bummed that Cro Cop didn't win, but at least he's retiring now. Thanks for all the memories. Really gonna miss him.

Hioki barely won that. The judges could have scored that either way imo. There's just some things about the transition from JMMA to the UFC that's so tough for these guys. Nice to hear what he said after the fight.


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## Tiger (Oct 30, 2011)

I thought Mitrione won a round definitively. And could have won the other. Kongo looked to be running scared...I was pretty shocked at 30-27. Not sure what fight they were watching.

Doesn't matter though, if Mitrione can't acquire some takedown defense, and learn to fight off his back, that's as far as he goes.


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## Gaja (Oct 30, 2011)

No Post fight press conference... 

Mitrione / Kongo was so odd, I really though that was gonna be a stand up war, like Meathead did with Scott Junk back on TUF... Oh well, neither one shinned really, I mean Kongo did win that third round, hands down, but first two were just meh. Initially I had Mat winning the first two rounds though...

Diaz looked outstanding, looking forward to watching the replay of the post figth presser and seeing what Dana says about him and GSP and Condit... Though I think we'll get one of those patented 'we'll have to figure it out' type answers.


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## Aokiji (Oct 30, 2011)

Law said:


> I thought Mitrione won a round definitively. And could have won the other. Kongo looked to be running scared...I was pretty shocked at 30-27. Not sure what fight they were watching.



This ain't a barfight Rogan, he was about as scared as Anderson Silva is, when he picks apart people on the backfoot.

Are we really discussing why walking backwards isn't losing in 2011? 

Mitrione did NOTHING in round 1 and round 2 he only got if you estimate his strikes to be really significant (which didn't show on Kongo, but maybe he's just good ad hiding damage)


Also, I see Anderson losing respect.  Him not wanting to fight Sonnen because he is a punk (Demian maia fight, ahem) but GSP begging Dana to make the Diaz fight right away.


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## Lucifer Morningstar (Oct 30, 2011)

Wouldn't be surprising if GSP gets 50-45 on Nick. 

A lot of butthurt Penn fans can't wait for that. Some of them also said Penn would TKO Nick. :ho

I think GSP would wrestle-fuck Nick, but don't count him out so easily.


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## Gaja (Oct 30, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Also, I see Anderson losing respect.  Him not wanting to fight Sonnen because he is a punk (Demian maia fight, ahem) but GSP begging Dana to make the Diaz fight right away.





Someone needs to make a gif out of their 'scared' faces too. Loved how Nick was cursing around after the fight and the line.

"Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night." - Just awesome


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## Aokiji (Oct 30, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Wouldn't be surprising if GSP gets 50-45 on Nick.
> 
> A lot of butthurt Penn fans can't wait for that. Some of them also said Penn would TKO Nick. :ho
> 
> I think GSP would wrestle-fuck Nick, but don't count him out so easily.



Honestly, what is it with this "butthurt" shit. Most people who like Penn will also respect Diaz, a beast who comes to fuck you up.


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## Aokiji (Oct 30, 2011)

neither of them looked scared after the call but Anderson looked like he didn't know what so say until he decided to go 

GSP looked like he couldn't wait to smack his bitchass.


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## Tiger (Oct 30, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> This ain't a barfight Rogan, he was about as scared as Anderson Silva is, when he picks apart people on the backfoot.
> 
> *Are we really discussing why walking backwards isn't losing in 2011?*



Are we really comparing what Kongo was doing to Anderson Silva? 

Kongo was being stalked. You were watching a different fight from most of the world. Stop acting like you're the only one who knows MMA. You're always so bitter and quick to make snide little jabs at people. Grow up.


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## Aokiji (Oct 30, 2011)

Law said:


> Are we really comparing what Kongo was doing to Anderson Silva?



Strawman.

I was comparing Kongo fighting off the backfoot to Anderson fighting off the backfoot. That's the only thing I did. It doesn't matter if Anderson is much better at it.

Walking backwards does not lose you the round. Stalking is NOTHING. He lost all 3 rounds with the exception of the second which is still not likely.


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## Violent by Design (Oct 30, 2011)

Kongo was looking to counter-strike. He was not really scared, because there were a lot of times when he would back up regardless of what Matt was doing.

If I had to guess, he wanted to have Matt try to unload on him while his back was to the wall.


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## Lucifer Morningstar (Oct 30, 2011)

Press conference spoilers if you plan on watching it after:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Condit has agreed to step aside. GSP-Diaz planned for Superbowl weekend. Condit will be fighting on the card against an opponent to be determined.


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## Aokiji (Oct 30, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Kongo was looking to counter-strike. He was not really scared, because there were a lot of times when he would back up regardless of what Matt was doing.
> 
> If I had to guess, he wanted to have Matt try to unload on him while his back was to the wall.



NO MAN, HE WAS A BITCH, IF HE WAS A MAN, HE'D BE LIKE DIEGO SANCHEZ AND FUCK UP PEOPLES HANDS WITH HIS FACE 

Yes I know that this is an exeggaration.


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## Violent by Design (Oct 30, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Press conference spoilers if you plan on watching it after:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



siiiiiiiiiiiiiiick.


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## Skylark (Oct 30, 2011)

I will say this, and I do so as a huge GSP fan - St. Pierre would be unwise to stand and bang with Nick Diaz. We all saw what Shields was able to do inside of two rounds, and Nick is leaps and bounds better in the striking department. I'd put all my chips on GSP to win, but it would be via wrestling. As much as I think Georges is class in the striking department, it's getting more and more difficult to bet against Nick in that aspect of MMA.


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## Aokiji (Oct 30, 2011)

Skylark said:


> I will say this, and I do so as a huge GSP fan - St. Pierre would be unwise to stand and bang with Nick Diaz. *We all saw what Shields was able to do inside of two rounds,* and Nick is leaps and bounds better in the striking department. I'd put all my chips on GSP to win, but it would be via wrestling. As much as I think Georges is class in the striking department, it's getting more and more difficult to bet against Nick in that aspect of MMA.



He poked his eyes.  Oh and he was also headhunting, because he was trying to finish. If he didn't get eye poked and fought his natural style, it would've been more like Koscheck II.

Oh and I think people are overestimating Diaz striking now. GSP reach is Jones like (both 6 inches longer than their height) and he won't gas easily or get busted up in the clinch. Also, Diaz AIN'T stopping his TDs. 

And i hope Georges is genuinely pissed. Diaz seems to have an actual attitude problem. It would be cool to see GSP beat a real opponent and this time finish him.


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## Gallic Rush (Oct 30, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> This ain't a barfight Rogan, he was about as scared as Anderson Silva is, when he picks apart people on the backfoot.
> 
> Are we really discussing why walking backwards isn't losing in 2011?
> 
> ...



Just took a look at CompuStrike, Kongo basically got slightly ahead by out leg kicking Mitrione. Mitrione definitely landed more punches in the second round though. The only thing that put Kongo's overall strikes slightly above Mitrione's was his 15 landed leg kicks.


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## Federer (Oct 30, 2011)

Glad that 'Big Country' and Diaz won, I can win some money thanks to them.


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## Aokiji (Oct 30, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Just took a look at CompuStrike, Kongo basically got slightly ahead by out leg kicking Mitrione. Mitrione definitely landed more punches in the second round though. The only thing that put Kongo's overall strikes slightly above Mitrione's was his 15 landed leg kicks.



Thats why I said that he only won the second if his strikes were actually significant. if they weren't, they don't deserve to be ranked higher than a leg kick.

Also, how would a co main event with GSP/Diaz and Anderson/Sonnen on Superbowl weekend be?  

so much awesome but also, these fight deserve their own event, if you put them on the same card it just distracts from one another. 

Also, too bad I don't have a hunch with Cain and JDS, I don't have an idea for a bet. I DID have a hunch to drop some money on Diaz but I didn't. 

If Brock is the underdog against Overeem though, I might bet on him. :ho


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## Gallic Rush (Oct 30, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Thats why I said that he only won the second if his strikes were actually significant. if they weren't, they don't deserve to be ranked higher than a leg kick.
> 
> Also, how would a co main event with GSP/Diaz and Anderson/Sonnen on Superbowl weekend be?
> 
> ...




Well, Compustrike had a lot of Mitrione's landed punches as power strikes, but who the hell really ever knows with something like that except the guy that got hit? I'm just saying that it looked to me like Kongo was getting punched in the face way too much to win that second round. 



Also, Cain vs JDS is not even a question for me. That's Velasquez all day. The pace he sets is so far above what any other heavyweight can handle that I think it's going to be a long time before someone beats him. Plus, he's already proved he can take a hell of a shot, and while JDS has some good punching power he doesn't put people out with one hit. 

I've been waxing poetically for years about how great JDS, but he just doesn't have what it takes to beat Cain.


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## Sanity Check (Oct 30, 2011)

BJ Penn and Paul Daley were out-striking Diaz in the center of the cage.

Its only when Diaz backs someone up against the cage that he can really unload on them.

BJ moves straight back.  What he really needed to do was move backwards and a little to the left or right to give an angle & circle around Diaz to avoid being cornered.

Cerrone demolished Siver.  That was awesome~  

Mitrione entering to Lynyrd Skynyrd was awesome too.


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## Gallic Rush (Oct 30, 2011)

BJ basically fights all his opponents flat-footed and relies on his opponents coming to him to conserve energy. If someone starts dancing around him he has no ability to catch them (a la Frankie Edgar). In the past he has never needed to run away from anyone because he has been able to take their best punch and throw back. Last night he was too tired to throw anything back in the last 2 rounds and basically just got ground into Spam-burgers.



Seconded on Cerrone looking in rare form last night. He is going to pose some serious problems for a lot of the shorter 155 lbers like Guida and Edgar. Pretty sure Bendo would beat him again though; so, probably not a candidate for future champ.


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## Sanity Check (Oct 30, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> BJ basically fights all his opponents flat-footed and relies on his opponents coming to him to conserve energy. If someone starts dancing around him he has no ability to catch them (a la Frankie Edgar). In the past he has never needed to run away from anyone because he has been able to take their best punch and throw back. Last night he was too tired to throw anything back in the last 2 rounds and basically just got ground into Spam-burgers.




BJ's has a counter puncher / ko artist style.

The thing people generally don't understand is to generate KO power a person needs to have both of their feet on the ground & commit to punches.  Fighters like Frankie Edgar who give a lot of movement won't hit hard a lot of the time due to them having only one foot on the ground due to them constantly moving(if you watch Frankie in slow motion, you'll notice hes standing on one foot a lot of the time when hes punching someone -- thus the moniker "pillow hands")

That's one of the reasons BJ has so many finishes and Frankie doesn't.

BJ always has his feet on the ground and is always ready to deliver power shots.  Vitor has the same style.  So does Fedor.  If you watch, you'll notice they lift their feet as low off the ground as possible to increase the amount of time they can generate power with their punches via virtue of having their feet on the ground.

Even though that's basic boxing -- a lot of MMA fighters won't know or recognize it.

Has nothing to do with BJ not keeping his back off the cage though which was really the issue there.

Nor does it have to do with why he lost to Frankie.  

BJ's cardio is good, its just that Diaz' body shots and some of the other punches he threw had a debilitating effect.


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## Gallic Rush (Oct 30, 2011)

Obviously there is a trade off between fighting light on your toes and settling down in terms of power and elusiveness, but I'm telling you Penn does not have the gas tank to fight light on his feet even if he wanted to. His cardio is not, and never really has been, all that good. As soon as he lost the ability to throw power punches and keep Diaz moving backwards he lost the fight.


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## Sanity Check (Oct 30, 2011)

I think its not so much BJ's cardio.  

Being hit with a good punch or body shot will take all the energy out of someone.  BJ was winning up until the second when Diaz backed him up against the cage and landed 2 body shots.  I think those 2 punches Diaz connected with sapped BJ's energy & he never fully recovered.

I give BJ credit for hanging in there and not being finished.  Hes a lot tougher than I gave him credit for.  I thought Diaz would finish him via KO/TKO by the 2nd.

BJ managed to fight back in the 3rd and go blow for blow with Diaz to the final bell which was impressive(I thought).  I'll have to watch it again.


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## Gallic Rush (Oct 30, 2011)

I mean, what's more likely? A guy that gasses in every single one of his fights gassed again because he's got poor cardio, or he got winded by body shots? I'm sure the body shots weren't helping, but well conditioned athletes recover well from just about anything that doesn't cripple them completely.


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## Violent by Design (Oct 30, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> I mean, what's more likely? A guy that gasses in every single one of his fights gassed again because he's got poor cardio, or he got winded by body shots? I'm sure the body shots weren't helping, but well conditioned athletes recover well from just about anything that doesn't cripple them completely.



Damn dude, you're exaggerating a lot. 

BJ Penn got tired because Nick Diaz was working him. Nick Diaz is throwing a ton of punches, and pushing his weight on Penn, that is going to tire out a smaller guy. 

Every single person that Nick Diaz fights looks tired in the second round. So how come in this fight, it is only Penn's lack of cardio, and not Diaz's aggression and high pace? 

BJ Penn didn't get tired because it was the second round. BJ Penn gets tired when guys are competitive with him. Why do you think he was fine in the second round against Kenflo, Diego and Sherk?


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## Gallic Rush (Oct 30, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Damn dude, you're exaggerating a lot.
> 
> BJ Penn got tired because Nick Diaz was working him. Nick Diaz is throwing a ton of punches, and pushing his weight on Penn, that is going to tire out a smaller guy.
> 
> ...


Not trying to take anything away from Penn, I think he's a phenomenal fighter. His style and natural gifts are obviously a problem for a lot of fighters, but some fighters just got his number. Every fight he has looked good in has been fought at a slow pace or finished early.

If the guy has a good chin like Edgar or Diaz, there goes your early finish. If they got good cardio, there goes your slow pace.

Penn seemed to have better jiu jitsu, better wrestling, and better boxing than Diaz and he still ended up losing badly.


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## Violent by Design (Oct 30, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Penn seemed to have better jiu jitsu, better wrestling, and better boxing than Diaz and he still ended up losing badly.



Not really. The only thing Penn clearly had was better wrestling.

Penn had Diaz's back, and Diaz still got out, and back to his feet. I don't get how that means Penn has better BJJ. The only reason why Diaz lost that exchange was due to wrestling. Penn got superior positioning via scrambling, not guard passing.

I don't really get how Penn had the better boxing. He got a few better strikes than Diaz did in the first round. But 2 and 3 were blatantly in Diaz's favor, even before Penn "gassed". I don't get how you can conclude in one competitive round that BJ has better boxing, when the other 2 rounds he was rocked and blown out. That seems highly selective. It's not like he was gassed at the start of Round 2, it was only when he started getting blasted that he seemed tired.


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## Gallic Rush (Oct 30, 2011)

Taking the back is not a part of BJJ anymore? @_@
I mean, kudos to Diaz for keeping Penn's right hook out keeping him from establishing a true back mount, but he was just a step behind Penn in the transitions. 

And I think it was obvious Penn had better boxing because despite being the shorter fighter and not really explosive he still landed more significant strikes in the first round (FightMetric has it at 33 vs 20 to Penn for significant strikes).


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## Lucifer Morningstar (Oct 30, 2011)

According to Cesar, Nick was injured going into that fight.

He didn't want the fight, but he always does as his manager and team tells him to. Mentally and physically, he wasn't at his best that fight.


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## Ippy (Oct 30, 2011)

I actually almost teared up when Penn announced his retirement.

That fight was everything and more of what I was expecting.

WAR forever, BJ.


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## Lucifer Morningstar (Oct 30, 2011)

1) Sonnen-Silva
2) GSP-Diaz
3) Condit-Ellenberger rematch or Condit-Kos? 
4) Lauzon-Pettis?

Man... They are really going to make this card stacked as hell.


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## Gaja (Oct 31, 2011)

Holly fucking shit was Primetime awesome.   



Lucifer Morningstar said:


> 1) Sonnen-Silva
> 2) GSP-Diaz
> 3) Condit-Ellenberger rematch or Condit-Kos?
> 4) Lauzon-Pettis?
> ...



Once again an awesome set, and it looks like it's gonna be an epic card too. Didn't know Condit would be fighting on the same card as the others, but GSP and Silva vs American Gangstas? It's gonna be awesome leading up to the card. 

"*Who's gonna talk the most shit?*" - Sonnen or Diaz?


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## Gallic Rush (Oct 31, 2011)

I don't think Diaz talks that much shit. Mostly because he's inarticulate and hates speaking in front of the camera.

Sonnen is Master Troll v.2.0. No one can touch that guy's trolling except maybe Steven Seagal.


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## CrazyMoronX (Oct 31, 2011)

That BJ/Diaz fight was epic. Just like I thought/hoped it would be. 

Every time Nick steps into the ring it's like Sherdog explodes into this frenzy trying to discredit him, and every time he goes in there (the cage) and whoops some ass. I find it funny. 


And then there was Cro Cop. I thought maybe I'd feel terrible if he lost, but I didn't. He went out fighting. He looked great when he had Roy up against the fence, unloading on him. I also didn't get too emotional when he left, but that's probably more because he didn't say anything.

I'm sad to see him go, but glad I don't have to feel the anxiety that goes along with watching him lose. Bittersweet. 

War Cro Cop.


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## HInch (Oct 31, 2011)

Nick Diaz will pillow punch anyone who gets in his way. Except Cesar Gracie for some fucktard reason.


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## CrazyMoronX (Oct 31, 2011)

Even a pillow can be deadly if you hit someone with it 10,000 times.

I still don't think he can beat GSP though. Not unless GSP thinks he has something to prove and refuses to go for a takedown (like Jake Shields ).


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## Aokiji (Oct 31, 2011)

Wow, Silva is REALLY adamant in ducking Sonnen. 

Listen Andy, that guy pretty much beat you hail mary sub aside, so if you're really the GOAt, you go and beat the shit out of his mouth and prove that the first fight only went that way cuz your were injured.

But no he won't and his tards will talk shit like "THE WORST THING THAT HE COULD DO TO SONNEN IS TO NOT FIGHT HIM"

No that would be the worst thing he could do to himself.


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## CrazyMoronX (Oct 31, 2011)

If I were Silva I wouldn't want to waste my time beating up Sonnen either.


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## Lucifer Morningstar (Oct 31, 2011)

GSP-Diaz, is the same as Shogun-Hendo for me. All 4 guys are in my top 5 all-time favourites. Gonna be awesome and sucky to see them fight each other. 

I've been following Nick for a long ass time. He's been an underdog for a lot of his career (mostly early on, and after the Gomi fight to EliteXC, he started getting plugged more). Him and Sonnen really get some people from Sherdog worked up, it's pretty funny sometimes. 

Here are two things he said from an interview back in 2007, that I thought was cool seeing as how we get both of these fights now (not as relevant in 2011, but still cool seeing he got this far from a fan perspective):



> *Finally, How do you think a fight would go between you and BJ Penn?*
> 
> Nick Diaz - I think that he would just have to be in really good shape to fight me. If he got in really good shape, I couldn't tell you how that would go. I like BJ Penn, he's one of my favorite fighters. I would never like to get into an ordeal where we don't like each other. I would try to keep that as sportsmanlike as possible versus somebody like BJ Penn. But I think that yeah, if I could come into the fight in better shape then BJ, I think it would be a really good fight. I think we have really similar types of Jiu Jitsu skills. I think he's more experienced than me Jiu Jitsu wise but I think I've been more hard at work lately than I think he has as far as strong training and fighting hard lately. So that's all I can say about a fight like that with me versus BJ Penn.
> 
> ...



Nick wasn't as accustomed to the scorecards and point systems back early on, until the Sherk fight. He probably has a similar outlook on it now, but he's more aware of what to do. PRIDE suited his fighting style better than any other promotion probably, but he's had to adapt to some stuff.

Also, Nate Diaz and Donald Cerrone scheduled for UFC 141. Great match-up. I think it will win FOTN.


----------



## Ippy (Oct 31, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Wow, Silva is REALLY adamant in ducking Sonnen.
> 
> Listen Andy, that guy pretty much beat you hail mary sub aside, so if you're really the GOAt, you go and beat the shit out of his mouth and prove that the first fight only went that way cuz your were injured.
> 
> ...


Duck a guy he already beat?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Oct 31, 2011)

The true zen master of ducking is GSP.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Oct 31, 2011)

BRAAAINS!!! said:


> Duck a guy he already beat?



I think he's more just reverse trolling Sonnen, but he also probably knows that his biggest threat at MW is Sonnen by a landslide. There's really not even a close second.




Speaking of trolling, I see what you did there, CrazyMoronX.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 1, 2011)

Nick Diaz broke the UFC record for most significant strikes landed in a fight.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 1, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> I think he's more just reverse trolling Sonnen, but he also probably knows that his biggest threat at MW is Sonnen by a landslide. There's really not even a close second.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


GSP is spinning more duck tales than Walt Disney, bro.


Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Nick Diaz broke the UFC record for most significant strikes landed in a fight.


If Diaz comes in with a better gameplan (ie: no headbutting punches) and GSP somehow doesn't take him down, he could totally win.

But GSP is going to take him down. Maybe Diaz will submit him off his back. That'd be pretty epic.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 1, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> GSP is spinning more duck tales than Walt Disney, bro.



Who is he ducking then?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 1, 2011)

Anderson Silva.

First he talks about how Anderson needs to clear his division. Then he talks about how Anderson walks around at 230. Then he's on a kick about how he wants to add a bunch of muscle and take a year off or something before fighting him. Now it's the LW thing (which, admittedly, he didn't say and was out of context). 

All adds up to one thing in my mind:


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 1, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Anderson Silva.
> 
> First he talks about how Anderson needs to clear his division. Then he talks about how Anderson walks around at 230. Then he's on a kick about how he wants to add a bunch of muscle and take a year off or something before fighting him. Now it's the LW thing (which, admittedly, he didn't say and was out of context).
> 
> All adds up to one thing in my mind:


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 1, 2011)

It just seems pretty suspect to me, the things he says. Anderson has people left to fight at MW? Really? Maybe Sonnen, but he did already technically beat him. He walks around at 230? Maybe when he's fat and not training. Maybe GSP is just misinformed. I mean, Anthony Johnson walks around at 230, too, but it's because he is a fat monster between fights.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 1, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> It just seems pretty suspect to me, the things he says. Anderson has people left to fight at MW? Really? Maybe Sonnen, but he did already *technically* beat him. He walks around at 230? Maybe when he's fat and not training. Maybe GSP is just misinformed. I mean, Anthony Johnson walks around at 230, too, but it's because he is a fat monster between fights.



Thats the problem. Anderson has all the reasons to seek a rematch and shut up Sonnen once and for all, but he blatantly refuses even if it's the only logical choice.

I mean Serra beat GSP too.  Mir/Lesnar. GSP/Hughes. (this one was particularly similar, since I think he was dominating Hughes until he made a mistake going for a kimura when he shouldn't have and got subbed. HEY NO NEED FOR A REMATCH, HUGHES FINISHED HIM 

He outfought him, Anderson merely caught him. This may be good enough for most fighters, but not a legitimate GOAT candidate. Anderson should be petitioning a rematch since he wants to prove that without rib injury, he would destroy him. but he wants Bisping...


As for GSP, I do believe he is wary of fighting Anderson, but what really is his porblem is not losing to him, but what he would do after he loses. We know what happened to Roy Jones Jr after he came back down from HW...

He also has many more credible threats at WW so he gets a free pass. Is there ANYONE but Sonnen you would think of as being a threat to the GOAT? That alone should compell him to seek a rematch.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 1, 2011)

Speaking of Rumble, he's facing Belfort at UFC 142 in a middleweight bout.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 1, 2011)

War Belfort, really. 


Btw, I have a strange hunch that Diaz vs GSP WILL be a barn burner. Too bad you can't bet on that. 

Pretty unlikely that this will be a "safe" fight.


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 1, 2011)

Realistically, GSP has no credible threats lol. Diaz is probably the best fighter he has ever went up against, and he is going to be a huge underdog.


Anderson Silva isn't even ducking Chael Sonnen. They're trying to set up their match in Brazil.


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 1, 2011)

> Taking the back is not a part of BJJ anymore? @_@
> I mean, kudos to Diaz for keeping Penn's right hook out keeping him from establishing a true back mount, but he was just a step behind Penn in the transitions.


Taking the back is part of multiple martial arts if you want to be technical.

BJ Penn took him down, Diaz nearly reversed it, they got caught in a peculiar position ; then while Nick was standing up BJ jumped on his back. That isn't enough to show that Nick Diaz BJJ is worst than Penn. That was more BJ winning a scramble then BJ systematically dominating him from position to position ala traditional BJJ. 

Also, BJ Penn is a specialist. Back mount is his thing, and Nick Diaz got out of it. That's a pretty big deal. How many fighters have escaped BJ Penn when he had their back? I don't get how anyone could use what BJ did to Nick Diaz on the ground as a con for Diaz. No one has a ground game that is as deadly as Penn's on the ground, and Diaz escaped relatively quickly and unscathed, despite ending up in the worst possible scenario. 





> And I think it was obvious Penn had better boxing because despite being the shorter fighter and not really explosive he still landed more significant strikes in the first round (FightMetric has it at 33 vs 20 to Penn for significant strikes).


BJ Penn is far more explosive than Nick Diaz is. 

It's not obvious that he's a better boxer, because he got out boxed badly.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 1, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Speaking of Rumble, he's facing Belfort at UFC 142 in a middleweight bout.



That fight is going to be so fucking intense. I hope neither fighter gets injured before the event.



CrazyMoronX said:


> Anderson Silva.
> 
> First he talks about how Anderson needs to clear his division. Then he talks about how Anderson walks around at 230. Then he's on a kick about how he wants to add a bunch of muscle and take a year off or something before fighting him. Now it's the LW thing (which, admittedly, he didn't say and was out of context).



GSP is a solid WW but not a huge one like Rumble Johnson. I mean, compare him to other MWs like Palhares or Sonnen, and it's a fucking joke thinking about him fighting at MW. Calling him out for "ducking" one person who happens to be a p4p great and a full weight class above him is stupid. 

Might as well call out Cain Velasquez for ducking Siberian tigers.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 1, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Taking the back is part of multiple martial arts if you want to be technical.



Well, yeah, but Penn and Diaz are both jiu jitsu practitioners; so, it makes sense to frame the discussion in terms of jiu jitsu.


> BJ Penn took him down, Diaz nearly reversed it, they got caught in a peculiar position ; then while Nick was standing up BJ jumped on his back. That isn't enough to show that Nick Diaz BJJ is worst than Penn. That was more BJ winning a scramble then BJ systematically dominating him from position to position ala traditional BJJ.


I dunno, you watch BJJ tournaments and people do that kind of stuff all the time. Whatever you want to call it, Penn was never in a disadvantageous position in the grappling but Diaz was.



> Also, BJ Penn is a specialist. Back mount is his thing, and Nick Diaz got out of it. That's a pretty big deal. How many fighters have escaped BJ Penn when he had their back? I don't get how anyone could use what BJ did to Nick Diaz on the ground as a con for Diaz. No one has a ground game that is as deadly as Penn's on the ground, and Diaz escaped relatively quickly and unscathed, despite ending up in the worst possible scenario.


I didn't say it counts against Diaz. He's still way better than most people on the ground. Just not Penn.



> BJ Penn is far more explosive than Nick Diaz is.
> 
> It's not obvious that he's a better boxer, because he got out boxed badly.


Meeeeh, maybe a little more explosive. Penn has heavy hands, but he's not THAT fast. He only got out boxed once he gassed and I'm sticking to that -.-


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 1, 2011)

I agree with VBD on Diaz possibly being GSP's toughest opponent. Hughes in his prime is up there too. Diaz is used to the underdog thing, and he'll be ready. A lot of people will be shocked when their fight goes down.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 1, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Thats the problem. Anderson has all the reasons to seek a rematch and shut up Sonnen once and for all, but he blatantly refuses even if it's the only logical choice.
> 
> I mean Serra beat GSP too.  Mir/Lesnar. GSP/Hughes. (this one was particularly similar, since I think he was dominating Hughes until he made a mistake going for a kimura when he shouldn't have and got subbed. HEY NO NEED FOR A REMATCH, HUGHES FINISHED HIM
> 
> ...


The differences between those rematches and the Silva one is that Silva defended his title against Sonnen and finished him. In those rematches that isn't the case. 

Mir/Lesnar? Lesnar was champ and defensing against someone who beat him. Makes sense. 

Hughes/GSP? After Hughes beat GSP, GSP had to work his way back to a title in about 5 fights. Then it was a rubber match to settle the score. Makes sense.

Serra/GSP? GSP had two fights between and was the contender. It made sense.


What doesn't make sense is something like having Couture fight Lesnar two times in a row. Sonnen hasn't fought his way back up to a title--he beat one person.

Anyway, I'd like to see the fight myself, I'm just saying I can see why Silva wouldn't want to fight Sonnen again. Especially this late in his career. I also see your point, but that's Anderson's decision. If he can live with that victory and not need to further prove himself, then he should go after the fights he really wants.


Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Speaking of Rumble, he's facing Belfort at UFC 142 in a middleweight bout.


Heard about that.  They're really feeding Rumble to the wolves on this one and having Vitor fight someone who isn't even ranked at MW is kind of shoddy.

Has a lot of potential though.


Gallic Rush said:


> That fight is going to be so fucking intense. I hope neither fighter gets injured before the event.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that the plethora of crazy excuses he made for not fighting him just got to me a little. Especially the stuff about Anderson needing to clear out the division and walking around at 230. It was just silly. He should just come out and say he doesn't want to fight at MW. Not make all these wild excuses. It rubs me the wrong way.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 1, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:
			
		

> I think that the plethora of crazy excuses he made for not fighting him just got to me a little. Especially the stuff about Anderson needing to clear out the division and walking around at 230. It was just silly. He should just come out and say he doesn't want to fight at MW. Not make all these wild excuses. It rubs me the wrong way.



Didn't he say in so many words he doesn't want to fight at MW? 

I never heard him say any of that other BS you're talking about. Where'd you read that? Sherdog?


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 2, 2011)

Njokuani-Taylor got scrapped cause Paul Taylor got into a car accident. I know it's free, but I doubt I catch this card live. Most of my friends aren't even interested in it, and I don't watch live events alone.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 2, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Njokuani-Taylor got scrapped cause Paul Taylor got into a car accident. I know it's free, but I doubt I catch this card live. Most of my friends aren't even interested in it, and I don't watch live events alone.



Fuck, Ninjakuani was the main guy I was interested in for that card.

Now it's all gay and lame -.-

(not really, but that's still a huge let down)


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 2, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Didn't he say in so many words he doesn't want to fight at MW?
> 
> I never heard him say any of that other BS you're talking about. Where'd you read that? Sherdog?


I saw him talking about it in some interview.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 2, 2011)

Sounds legit.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 2, 2011)

I wouldn't make stuff up.


----------



## Deesnutz (Nov 2, 2011)

im back!!!


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 2, 2011)

Where'd you go? Training UFC?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 2, 2011)

GSP > Silva, forever.

Also, Rumble needed to do this forever. I think MW is gonna do wonders for him.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 2, 2011)

I think there are a few guys that are going to give him huge problems, namely Palhares and Sonnen if he ever faces them. Those two would fuck him up worse than Koschek did, and I don't think he's big enough (I can't believe I'm saying that) to ever really do anything about that.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 3, 2011)

Yeah, Koscheck gave him a beating. Maia, Sonnen, Paul Harris, Munoz, even Leben would probably give him some trouble.


And Vitor should murder him.


He has potential to be top 10, but low top 10, in a couple years. Unless going up in weight gives him some amazing new-found abilities.


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 3, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Yeah, Koscheck gave him a beating. Maia, Sonnen, Paul Harris, Munoz, even Leben would probably give him some trouble.
> 
> 
> And Vitor should murder him.
> ...



if he becomes a lot faster and more coordinated, he could be a problem. but for the most part i agree with the guys you put there who would give him problems. i could see him having trouble against akiyama, bisping and miller too.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 3, 2011)

Bisping vs Rumble would be interesting.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 3, 2011)




----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 3, 2011)

Meh, they kind of need Goldberg to do all the filler and sponsor reads.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 4, 2011)

I don't mind Goldberg so much. 

Sometimes he says some hilariously awful stuff.


----------



## Deesnutz (Nov 4, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Where'd you go? Training UFC?



nope i was trainning in boxin


----------



## Deesnutz (Nov 4, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> GSP > Silva, forever.
> 
> Also, Rumble needed to do this forever. I think MW is gonna do wonders for him.



i disagree


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 4, 2011)

Deesnutz said:


> nope i was trainning in boxin


You could still cross over. Just learn some wrasslin'.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 4, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Might as well call out Cain Velasquez for ducking Siberian tigers.







CrazyMoronX said:


> The differences between those rematches and the Silva one is that Silva defended his title against Sonnen and finished him. In those rematches that isn't the case.



I wish people would stop making such a big deal out of "finishing". a bum could finish a good fighter by landing a big one. A guy could sub another by feeding off a mistake he made, while being the inferior fighter. Thats OK. You can't take away their win from them. What you can do however, is criticise them for their avoidant behavior. 

The fact that Sonnen almost beat him while everyone else struggles not to get embarrassed is enough to justofy a rematch.

I don't really even mind that people ask for another contender, I laugh at the fact that nobody seems to agree that Silva is ducking. Given what happened, he should be burning to beat him, I mean ACTUALLY beat him. He is considered the GOAT, I can't believe his lack of pride.

Oh and pretty sure Lesnar didn't get manhandled the way Anderson did, nor is he considered a mythical creature that can knock people out with his kiai like Anderson is. Different standards.

If there were other contenders, ANY contenders, it would make sense. But now, anything else but a rematch would be silly. 

And once more, the real beef i have is him using every excuse to avoid the guy that many people believe would beat him 6/10 based on what they saw, not the argument IN ITSELF. He should prove that he is a better fighter by actually dominating Sonnen. Beating someone does not make you a better fighter than them.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 4, 2011)

Just 


Silva just has a different mindset about it. He wants to beat up new people.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 4, 2011)

It is kind of interesting though that had that been a 3 round non-title fight Anderson would have lost a landslide unanimous decision. I don't think many fighters have even taken a round from Anderson since he became champion much less dominated him for more than three.

I think a few fighters are pretty close to establishing themselves as contenders, but they're not quite there yet (Henderson again, Rumble if he can destroy Vitor, Palhares if he can string a few more wins together).


----------



## Ippy (Nov 4, 2011)

lol, GSP's talking that shit.

Cerrone did NOT have a better performance of the night than Diaz.  If you're only counting what they did during the fight, then yes, Cerrone beat Diaz, but as soon as you factor in WHO they beat, then things heavily swing into Diaz's favor.

He outboxed one of the best boxers in MMA.  A legend of the sport.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 4, 2011)

GSP will steam roll through Nick Diaz.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 4, 2011)

Plus, I've said it before and I'll say it again, p4p king should be GSP. He has beat greater opposition than Anderson Silva and is more well rounded. Easily the best strategist in MMA, with great conditioning, technical striking, excellent BJJ and arguably the best wrestling in the UFC. I know MMA math is stupid, but if you compare the level of opposition of the two, it's very clear who deserves the #1 spot more.

GSP owns victories of Hughes, Penn, Koscheck, Fitch, Alves, Shields, Sherk, among many other great fighters. Compare that to Anderson Silva's notables of Henderson, Okami, Sonnen, Griffin, Maia, Franklin and Marquardt. A very impressive list of victories, but nothing compared to GSP's victories.

GSP doesn't finish fights, therefore he isn't "the best". Finishing fights doesn't make you the best. Fighting to win by effectively getting rid of your opponents advantages using strategy and skill makes you a good fighter. A win is a win, and GSP will dismantle any opponent's gameplan every time. Too much Andy Silva worship, GSP doesn't get the respect he deserves.


----------



## Ippy (Nov 4, 2011)

GSP getting #2 P4P is him getting the respect he deserves.

It's not just about winning, but HOW they win should also be considered.  Anderson Silva simply embarrasses his opponents.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 4, 2011)

And GSP doesn't? Did you see Koscheck's face after their fight? He fucking beat Jake Shields with one eye.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 5, 2011)

I personally think GSP is P4P the best fighter in the world too (honestly wouldn't care if you had Silva first, or GSP, they are the undisputed top 2), but I have Silva as the current GOAT. I'm not a fan of Silva, but that's just how I see it. Fedor is a close 2nd, I just can't ignore those 3 straight losses, and I'm a huge Fedor fan.

GSP is definitely more well-rounded than him, and I feel he's faced more quality opposition, but Silva has faced some great opponents as well. I guess what does it for me is that GSP dominates guys like Fitch and Kos for 5 whole rounds. He's always prepared and plays to his opponent's weaknesses. He may be really conservative at times, like against Shields, but before that fight, he hadn't lost a round since the Serra fight.

Silva dominates guys with flash, and I'm not undermining his skill, talent, or accomplishments, but I guess it's just my personal taste. Flash vs fire, and I think dominating guys for 5 rounds is more impressive than knocking someone out in the 1st round. That's just me though.

Also, I don't what it is about him, but I just don't like Ellenberger.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 5, 2011)

Man fuck the crowd in England.


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 5, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Plus, I've said it before and I'll say it again, p4p king should be GSP. He has beat greater opposition than Anderson Silva and is more well rounded. Easily the best strategist in MMA, with great conditioning, technical striking, excellent BJJ and arguably the best wrestling in the UFC. I know MMA math is stupid, but if you compare the level of opposition of the two, it's very clear who deserves the #1 spot more.
> 
> GSP owns victories of Hughes, Penn, Koscheck, Fitch, Alves, Shields, Sherk, among many other great fighters. Compare that to Anderson Silva's notables of Henderson, Okami, Sonnen, Griffin, Maia, Franklin and Marquardt. A very impressive list of victories, but nothing compared to GSP's victories.
> 
> GSP doesn't finish fights, therefore he isn't "the best". Finishing fights doesn't make you the best. Fighting to win by effectively getting rid of your opponents advantages using strategy and skill makes you a good fighter. A win is a win, and GSP will dismantle any opponent's gameplan every time. Too much Andy Silva worship, GSP doesn't get the respect he deserves.




You forgot Sakurai & Newton, and you didn't even explain why GSP's opponents are better.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 5, 2011)

Meh, all in all not a bad night of fights.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 5, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> You forgot Sakurai & Newton, and you didn't even explain why GSP's opponents are better.



He beat Hughes and Penn, both of them in their/around their prime (both of them TWICE, no less, and three out of four of them were won decisively if you wanna be specific), crushed Josh Koscheck (2x) who is one of the best wrestlers in the welterweight division (as well as having great striking and cardio). Utterly destroyed Jon Fitch who is another guy with incredible wrestling and cardio, defeated Thiago Alves who was/is one of the best strikers in MMA today, beat Jake Shields with one eye, destroyed Sean Sherk who also had some of the best cardio/wrestling in the game, as well as being very well rounded. All of those very notable victories of all guys who have either held a belt at some point, or have always been contenders in the division. Not to mention, victories over Karo Parisyan, Frank Trigg, Jay Hieron and Jason Miller.

GSP has always displayed better wrestling, better cardio, and arguably better jiu jitsu (from a technical stand point, for the most part) than Anderson Silva. While Silva has defeated many greats like Dan Henderson, most of his other victories have come over inconsistent mid-tier guys like Rich Franklin, Nate Marquardt and Chris Leben, and guys like Maia who wouldn't even engage.

Compare the amount of Silva's notable wins to his wins over cans, and you'll see that they're outweighed by a bit.

Most notable victories:

Dan Henderson
Nate Marquardt
Rich Franklin
Chris Leben
Forrest Griffin
Vitor Belfort
Yushin Okami
Demian Maia
Carlos Newton (And that's being generous, seeing as Carlos Newton is now 16-14, and around the time of the loss had gone 3-3 in his last 6 fights with his only notable victory being over Pat Miletich)
Hayato Sakurai


Victories over low-level opposition:

Travis Lutter
Lee Murray
Patrick Cote
James Irvin
Tony Fryklund
Curtis Stout
Jorge Rivera
Waldir dos Anjos
Alexander Otsuka
Alex Stiebling
Roan Carneiro
Tetsuji Kato
Claudionor Fontinelle
Israel Albuquerque
Jose Barreto
Fabricio Camoes
Raimundo Pinheiro

(Not to mention losses to Daiju Takase and Ryo Chonan)

Compare that to all of Georges St. Pierre's victories.

Notable victories:

Jay Hieron
Karo Parisyan
Ivan Menjivar
Josh Koscheck (2x)
BJ Penn (2x)
Matt Hughes (2x)
Jon Fitch
Thiago Alves
Frank Trigg
Matt Serra
Jason Miller
Sean Sherk
Dan Hardy (I guess...)
Jake Shields

Victories over low-level opposition:

Dave Strasser
Pete Spratt
Justin Bruckmann
Travis Galbraith
Thomas Denny

All in all, I think GSP has shown that he is a better fighter, based both on the level of fighters he has defeated, and his highly technical fighting style.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 6, 2011)

They're targeting Condit-Kos for Superbowl weekend.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 7, 2011)

Ippy said:


> lol, GSP's talking that shit.
> 
> Cerrone did NOT have a better performance of the night than Diaz.  If you're only counting what they did during the fight, then yes, Cerrone beat Diaz, but as soon as you factor in WHO they beat, then things heavily swing into Diaz's favor.
> 
> He outboxed one of the best boxers in MMA.  A legend of the sport.


GSP is hating on Diaz. It's a strat-a-gee. He is getting inside of his head. 



As for GSP being over Silva in terms of P4P? I don't think so. You can try to discredit Anderson Silva's opponents, but the fact is that he is undefeated in the UFC, has the longest winning streak in history, has the most title finishes, has beaten everyone that they (the UFC) have put in front of him. 

There are two big factors that I count for Anderson Silva as being the best:

1) All of his records (including most title defenses)
2) Defeating champions/former champs in three weight classes
3) Continuing to dominate in his late 30s (a testament to his skill over physical gifts)
4) He finishes fights no matter where it goes, and is able to do so without taking big chances or getting hurt. (this further shows his superior skill)


GSP is #2. That's where he should be.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 7, 2011)

UFC on Fox is already upon us. Somehow I kept getting it switched in my mind with Reem vs Lesnar. Anyways, I'm really excited for a lot of the match ups. Should be a great night of fights.


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 7, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> He beat Hughes and Penn, both of them in their/around their prime (both of them TWICE, no less, and three out of four of them were won decisively if you wanna be specific),


This is true, though of course Penn fought at a handicap. 




> crushed Josh Koscheck (2x) who is one of the best wrestlers in the welterweight division (as well as having great striking and cardio).


No denying that.



> Utterly destroyed Jon Fitch who is another guy with incredible wrestling and cardio, defeated Thiago Alves who was/is one of the best strikers in MMA today, beat Jake Shields with one eye, destroyed Sean Sherk who also had some of the best cardio/wrestling in the game, as well as being very well rounded.


 I notice that you discredited some of Silva's wins in hindsight, which seems kind of unfair since you gave GSP credit for beating Sherk. In hindsight, Sherk had been fighting at WW with a severe handicap. 



> All of those very notable victories of all guys who have either held a belt at some point, or have always been contenders in the division.


 Naturally any notable win would be over a contender.




> GSP has always displayed better wrestling,


GSP is more well rounded, but that doesn't mean he is better.



> better cardio,


I don't see the basis for this.



> and arguably better jiu jitsu (from a technical stand point, for the most part) than Anderson Silva.


 He's a better grappler for sure, but better Jiu Jitsu? I doubt it, I don't see how anyone can make a call. We barely even get to see Silva's top game, and we barely get to see Georges bottom game. So how could you really say? 



> While Silva has defeated many greats like Dan Henderson, most of his other victories have come over inconsistent mid-tier guys like Rich Franklin, Nate Marquardt and Chris Leben, and guys like Maia who wouldn't even engage.


That isn't very fair at all. By what merits are they inconsistent or mid-tier? They are not marketable, and the booking for the MWs are different for the WWs. The top ten in the MWs fight each other pretty often, and they give up a lot of losses to each other. WW isn't booked like that. A lot of the top WW's fight people in the top 15-20.

I don't get why you even brought up Chris Leben.

Getting in specifics like mentioning Maia who wouldn't engage (even though he did) is really irrelevant. He was out classed, which is why he looked so bad. 



> Compare the amount of Silva's notable wins to his wins over cans, and you'll see that they're outweighed by a bit.


Even if this were true, the important part is the about of notable people he has beaten. Whether he has beaten cans along the way is not really relevant. 

Most notable victories:

Dan Henderson
Nate Marquardt
Rich Franklin
Chris Leben
Forrest Griffin
Vitor Belfort
Yushin Okami
Demian Maia


> Carlos Newton (And that's being generous, seeing as Carlos Newton is now 16-14, and around the time of the loss had gone 3-3 in his last 6 fights with his only notable victory being over Pat Miletich)


 What relevance does his current record have? No one from Newton's era is good at WW still.

Records were looked upon differently back then. Fighters from that era generally had bad records, because they all fought each other (often) and weight classes were not well established. Newton came off close fights against Dan Henderson (quite a size handicap) and Sakuraba, and right after the Silva fight, he beat Renzo Gracie. He is certainly a more relevant win at that time then a lot of the guys you're giving GSP credit for beating. Choking out Pat is a big deal, and he was only about a year removed for challenging Hughes for the belt. 







> (Not to mention losses to Daiju Takase and Ryo Chonan)


I would say GSP's lost to Matt Serra is far more relevant, and will make a bigger impact on his legacy than when Silva was choked out as a blue belt.



> Compare that to all of Georges St. Pierre's victories.
> 
> Notable victories:
> 
> ...



Hold the phone here. *Ivan Menjivar* and *Matt Serra*? 

Menjivar currently fights at BW, and was at a huge handicap when GSP fought him. Manjivar isn't even famous. By what merits is GSP beating him a notable victory, but Silva beating Rivera (which is a solid win at the time), Cote or Murray low level? I don't think you even mentioned *Jeremy Horn* in the low level section, and he was way more relevant than a solid fighter like Hieron was.

Not only that, but you give Matt Serra credit as a notable win, yet dismiss Travis Lutter. Travis Lutter won the same exact tournament as Matt Serra, and had the same rights and path to challenge for the belt. The only difference is Matt TKO'd GSP, while Lutter got tapped out (the Michael Jordan of MMA ).

You're opening an entire can of worms if you're bringing Dan Hardy into this. Dan Hardy better than Thales Leities? I don't see how. 




> Victories over low-level opposition:
> 
> Dave Strasser
> Pete Spratt
> ...


 It's a little odd that Anderson Silva's low level opposition actually consist of known fighters, while GSP's (outside of Pete Sprat) are people who are long forgotten (well Spratt is, but I still remember him). 



> All in all, I think GSP has shown that he is a better fighter, based both on the level of fighters he has defeated, and his highly technical fighting style.



I don't know, I still don't see your basis for why his opposition was so much better. 

Silva has dominated the UFC like no other. I think as time goes on, that will matter a lot more than him getting tapped out in PRIDE FC. Longest streak, wins at different weight classes, most championship defenses, innovation of new techniques and a display of dominance over his opposition that no one could really duplicate.


----------



## Ippy (Nov 7, 2011)

> While Silva has defeated many greats like Dan Henderson, most of his other victories have come over inconsistent mid-tier guys like Rich Franklin, Nate Marquardt and Chris Leben


LOOOOL


Rich Franklin had only ONE loss in his entire career before he met Anderson Silva.
Nate Marquardt has been a top ten MW for YEARS and a multiple King of Pancrase.
Chris Leben, just like Franklin, had only ONE loss in his entire career before Silva.

Let's stop using the "discrediting wins" method of deciding who is better.  We can all play this game.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 7, 2011)

Honestly, I also don't see why Anderson is CLEARLY above GSP. He isn't. Also, GSP is younger than him. Tough to compare their careers.

At the moment, I would take Silva slightly above him cuz he finishes his opponents (overrated, but not irrelevant). But Anderson gets minus points for the Sonnen fight injuries or not. When GSP fights, it never looks like his opponents have a chance aside from catching him with something. I think not losing rounds is more important than people think as it shows actual ability and finishes being overrated. 

I also think that being well rounded DOES go a long way to say that GSP > Anderson. I mean it's not sufficient, but it matters alot. Also, I don't see how Anderson ISN'T facing inferior competition to GSP even if it is to a small degree. He also benefits from not facing that many offensive wrestlers, whereas GSP has faced pretty much every kind of fighter. 

Anderson gets bonus points for being a more natural fighter though. He looks like he is a "fighter" and not an "athlete" (as stupid as this distinction is)

So in my book Anderson >= GSP. Could change radically with their next fights.


----------



## Masai (Nov 7, 2011)

Having just seen 137…this scoring system just has to go, it's a huge blemish on the sport in my opinion.

And you know, i took a break from MMA for a couple of years cause i had flat out watched too much and got bored from it, and i don't know if it's from being away or something, but i am getting a kick out of Rogan's announcing.

By the way, is it wrong that i like watching Roy Nelson's belly moving around? Yeah, it's wrong probably. I do like it though. It's hypnotic.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 7, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Honestly, I also don't see why Anderson is CLEARLY above GSP. He isn't. Also, GSP is younger than him. Tough to compare their careers.
> 
> At the moment, I would take Silva slightly above him cuz he finishes his opponents (overrated, but not irrelevant). But Anderson gets minus points for the Sonnen fight injuries or not. When GSP fights, it never looks like his opponents have a chance aside from catching him with something. I think not losing rounds is more important than people think as it shows actual ability and finishes being overrated.
> 
> ...


That's just it, Anderson is 36(37)? Let's see how well GSP does when he's that age.

The point is Anderson has to rely more on his skills than his physical prowess. GSP can win fights via sheer athleticism. 


Masai said:


> Having just seen 137?this scoring system just has to go, it's a huge blemish on the sport in my opinion.
> 
> And you know, i took a break from MMA for a couple of years cause i had flat out watched too much and got bored from it, and i don't know if it's from being away or something, but i am getting a kick out of Rogan's announcing.
> 
> By the way, is it wrong that i like watching Roy Nelson's belly moving around? Yeah, it's wrong probably. I do like it though. It's hypnotic.


It is wrong. Being attracted to an obese man's belly is disgusting and wrong.


----------



## Masai (Nov 7, 2011)

Dude you should just sit down and watch that shit for a few minutes. I mean i'm no physics major but that thing just moves in unnatural ways, it's both fascinating and therapeutic. Like the moon. If the moon had four stomachs in it.


----------



## Ippy (Nov 7, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> He also benefits from not facing that many offensive wrestlers, whereas GSP has faced pretty much every kind of fighter.


O rly?


Franklin = great striker
Okami = great wrestler
Hendo = great wrestler with power in the hands
Marquardt = great striker, wrestler, AND 2nd degree BJJ BB
Belfort = great striker and great BJJ
Maia = great BJJ
Leites = great BJJ
Sonnen = great wrestler

I want to know where this prevailing belief, that GSP is fighting more diverse competition, stems from.  It's simply not true.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 7, 2011)

Rogan's awesome and he's eased up on his rubber guard fetish over the years. If only Bas can commentate with him. Goldberg's okay, but he's really only good for a few things.


----------



## Masai (Nov 7, 2011)

Goldberg's necessary, you need that play by play guy, Bas and Rogan are both the color commentator type. I'd love to see them in a 3 man announce team though.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 7, 2011)

Ippy said:


> O rly?
> 
> 
> Franklin = great striker
> ...



Not sure I would qualify Franklin as a "great striker." I mean, he was a good champion for his generation, but the first big name you notice that he fought against was Lyoto Machida and he lost via TKO. Pretty much everyone else that gave up a win to Franklin had a lot of losses afterward as well. People from Jorge Rivera, to Nate Quarry... the list goes on. Okami is probably the best person he has beaten to date.

Also, Leites does not have great BJJ. He has good BJJ. Better than most, but as an overall competitor he is lacking in quite a few regards. I mean, can you even tell me where he's fighting nowadays? They booted him out of the UFC pretty quickly after his loss to Anderson. What does that say about what kind of contender he was?


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 7, 2011)

It'll be interesting to see how Condit does against Kos, hopefully he knocks him out.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 7, 2011)

Is there any other fighter that everyone roots against as much as Kos?

Bisping, maybe.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 7, 2011)

Well I like Condit. I don't really dislike Kos as much as others, but I don't care for him.


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 7, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Not sure I would qualify Franklin as a "great striker."


He's certainly well above average.



> I mean, he was a good champion for his generation, but the first big name you notice that he fought against was Lyoto Machida and he lost via TKO.


That's false for two reasons. Lyoto Machida was not a big name when Rich Franklin fought him, and Travis Fulton was the first big name that he fought, and he beat him.



> Okami is probably the best person he has beaten to date.


Which is pretty good.



> I mean, can you even tell me where he's fighting nowadays?


The MFC. 



> They booted him out of the UFC pretty quickly after his loss to Anderson. What does that say about what kind of contender he was?



One that no one wanted to see. He was booted because he put on very boring performances, not because he was bad.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 7, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Is there any other fighter that everyone roots against as much as Kos?
> 
> Bisping, maybe.



Lesnar.

And for some reason Rashad gets a lot of shit. Still can't quite figure that one out.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 7, 2011)

Oh, yeah, Rashad. He does get a lot of hate.

He was my favorite from whatever TUF season he was on, and I still like him as a fighter and a person.


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 7, 2011)

he was on season 2.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 7, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> He's certainly well above average.



Not hating on him, man. Anyone that fights for a living is tough as nails, and certainly to get where he got he had to be above the average competition. I'm just saying if you're going to label him as "great" in the striking department I think that's pretty flimsy.



> That's false for two reasons. Lyoto Machida was not a big name when Rich Franklin fought him, and Travis Fulton was the first big name that he fought, and he beat him.



I think I had a poor choice in words. What I meant by "big name" wasn't that he was famous, but that people recognize him as a great fighter. Machida has progressed quite a bit since beating Franklin, but if anything it reflects more poorly on Franklin that he lost to Machida when Machida was still growing as a fighter.

And not to shit on another man's legacy, but Travis Fulton? That guy had 29 losses in 125 fights when he faced Rich. Most of his wins were over amateur level fighters. Rich beating Travis Fulton was not really remarkable.



> The MFC.



Actually I think he's fighting in Superior Challenge (just checked his record on wikipedia and that's where his last fight was). In any event, the level of competition he is facing is nowhere near the level of talent the UFC has.



> One that no one wanted to see. He was booted because he put on very boring performances, not because he was bad.


Combination of both really. If he was winning fights he wouldn't have been cut.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 8, 2011)

> Adam Guillen Jr. (MMAmania.com): What's your take on so many fighters today refusing to fight "friends" or people they have trained with in the past?
> 
> Chael Sonnen: They should go get a job at a sorority, or move to California and register at Macy's. They make a mockery out of athletes everywhere. If they want to pretend that this isn't a bloodsport, that's their problem. They shouldn't make the rest of us real competitors look bad. I'd fight any one of my friends any day at any time, because I respect them.
> 
> ...


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 8, 2011)

Ippy said:


> O rly?
> 
> 
> Franklin = great striker
> ...



I may reveal my lack of info here, but I would only really consider Sonnen and Hendo as great enough wrestlers to be called "great wrestlers" there. (and hendo is not exactly the type of wrestler that should bother Anderson, I mean, his double legs aren't what makes him great, his clinching is, which is where Anderson is comfortable at) Also, Sonnen doesn't/didn't really have the sub defence that many Welters have. 

Most of these guys are BJJ guys (can't take him down) or strikers (don't try to beat a balrog with a flamethrower). Sonnen has/had weak submission defence (and still showed that he has a good shot of beating him), Okami's wrestling skills mostly excel at defense, Hendo has good credentials, but his actual TD abilities and TDD aren't as stellar as you would think, he is mainly pretty good at clinching (not a good idea against Anderson). Don't know enough about Marquardt. 

GSP fought pretty good strikers (Hardy, Alves, BJ Penn), wrestlers (Koscheck, Fitch, Hughes, Sherk, hell you could even go ahead and mention Penn and Shields) and submission grapplers (BJ, Hughes, Shields, Miller, Serra, Fitch/Submissions ) 

Ofc I guess you could put an asterix next to all of these guys if you tried.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 8, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> he was on season 2.


Talkin' 'bout old school.


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 8, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Ofc I guess you could put an asterix next to all of these guys if you tried.



so whats the point of this reply?


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 8, 2011)




----------



## Ippy (Nov 8, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> I may reveal my lack of info here, but I would only really consider Sonnen and Hendo as great enough wrestlers to be called "great wrestlers" there. (and hendo is not exactly the type of wrestler that should bother Anderson, I mean, his double legs aren't what makes him great, his clinching is, which is where Anderson is comfortable at) Also, Sonnen doesn't/didn't really have the sub defence that many Welters have.


My argument was against the notion that Silva doesn't fight diverse competition.  He does.

Sonnen is one of the best MMA wrestlers in the sport.  Also, Hendo was good enough at one point to possibly be in the Olympics.  Both can take down whoever they want almost at will.

Also, Hendo's Greco Roman clinch is easier to set up for than the Thai plum, which requires separation from your opponent while also requiring you to surrender solid balance in favor of utilizing knees.

Lastly, people like to make fun of Sonnen's sub defense, but when you consider that MW has the most top BJJ aces in the sport, and Sonnen has only gotten subbed by some of the best BJJ black belts in the world, it's hard to argue that his defense is "bad".  Also, look at his win over Marquardt (a 2nd degree BJJ black belt), where Marquardt was completely and totally unable to get anything going on the ground.

VbD covered the rest of your post.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 8, 2011)

Why is the host of that rap battle an anorexic Billy Corgan?


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 8, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Is there any other fighter that everyone roots against as much as Kos?
> 
> Bisping, maybe.



What about Chael Sonnen?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 8, 2011)

Chael Sonnen is the people's champion.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 8, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Chael Sonnen is the people's champion.



I actually like Chael Sonnen and think he should be the Middleweight champ because that match was just won by a lucky submission from Anderson Silva, but I thought that everyone hated him because he talks a lot of smack


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 8, 2011)

UFC also just likes to hype up fighters who are popular, especially a guy like Silva who finishes his fights like it's nothing. You know the UFC is gonna hype him up as much as possible as being "THE BEST FIGHTER OF ALL TIME". I just think GSP is better, but he's always number 2 because he doesn't finish his fights and is relatively boring to a fan who doesn't care about ground work, wrestling, defensive fighting, or anything other than knockouts and subs.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 8, 2011)

^ If you don't like every aspect of the game then you aren't a true fan. Ground game is a quentissential part of Mixed Martial arts if you don't like that then you should just go back to Boxing or Kickboxing. MMA's not for you. Not saying this is you but for a "fan" or UFC feel that way then they arent a real fan.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 8, 2011)

TheGreatOne said:


> I actually like Chael Sonnen and think he should be the Middleweight champ because that match was just won by a lucky submission from Anderson Silva, but I thought that everyone hated him because he talks a lot of smack


I think he's hilarious and I know he doesn't mean half of the things he says (despite insisting it's all true).

I don't care about his fighting style or anything, but outside of the cage?


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 8, 2011)

Silva's win over Sonnen was something legacies are made of, and this is coming from a Sonnen fan. He truly showed the heart of a champion there. 

To me, GSP is the funnest fighter to watch. Nick is the most exciting.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 8, 2011)

TheGreatOne said:


> I actually like Chael Sonnen and think* he should be the Middleweight champ because that match was just won by a lucky submission from Anderson Silva,* but I thought that everyone hated him because he talks a lot of smack



You know, few people would like to see sonnen dethrone Anderson as much as me but .

What the hell does that even mean? I mean, give him another shot as quick as possible, sure. You don't say "He should be the MW champ" you say " he has what it takes to be the MW champ unlike a bunch of other people."

"He should be MW champ" only makes sense if somebody got robbed. Hell, considering his TRT thingie, it would've been overturned anyway. he would forever be the guy that cheated his way to the belt. In that sense, ending up as the loser is pretty much the best thing that could happen to him.  



Violent By Design said:


> so whats the point of this reply?



What, just being polite really. This kind of shit is kinda subjective so I'm just acknowledging that there is possibility for error in my judgment.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 8, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Why is the host of that rap battle an anorexic Billy Corgan?



Lol, hating on Organik. He's a cool dude though, I met him a year ago.

Some funny lines in the battle.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 8, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> *Silva's win over Sonnen was something legacies are made of, and this is coming from a Sonnen fan. He truly showed the heart of a champion there. *
> To me, GSP is the funnest fighter to watch. Nick is the most exciting.



but but SONNEN HAS PILLOW HANDS


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 8, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Silva's win over Sonnen was something legacies are made of, and this is coming from a Sonnen fan. He truly showed the heart of a champion there.
> 
> To me, GSP is the funnest fighter to watch. Nick is the most exciting.



Do you think Nick Diaz could beat GSP currently?


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 8, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> You know, few people would like to see sonnen dethrone Anderson as much as me but .
> 
> What the hell does that even mean? I mean, give him another shot as quick as possible, sure. You don't say "He should be the MW champ" you say " he has what it takes to be the MW champ unlike a bunch of other people."
> 
> ...



What I'm getting at is that Chael Sonnen practically dominated that fight. If Anderson Silva didn't get that Triangle Chael almost positively would've won that one by decision.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 8, 2011)

TheGreatOne said:


> Do you think Nick Diaz could beat GSP currently?



I think he could, but the smart choice would definitely be GSP. I give Nick more a chance than others, and he hasn't faced a good wrestler in over 5 years now.

People base off his current chances on fights when he was relatively inexperienced in the UFC, and didn't know how to adjust his game to the scoring system of the UFC. It's not like him and GSP will be fighting under PRIDE rules, and I think he's gotten smarter over the years.

I think he'll surprise a lot of people in their match, but I still see GSP winning.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 8, 2011)

TheGreatOne said:


> What I'm getting at is that Chael Sonnen practically dominated that fight. If Anderson Silva didn't get that Triangle Chael almost positively would've won that one by decision.



He would have won for sure if it went to the judges. The score cards were 40-36, 40-35, and 40-34. It didn't go to decision though, so it doesn't matter.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 8, 2011)

TheGreatOne said:


> ^ If you don't like every aspect of the game then you aren't a true fan. Ground game is a quentissential part of Mixed Martial arts if you don't like that then you should just go back to Boxing or Kickboxing. MMA's not for you. Not saying this is you but for a "fan" or UFC feel that way then they arent a real fan.



I'm not sure if you're referring to me or not


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 8, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Silva's win over Sonnen was something legacies are made of, and this is coming from a Sonnen fan. He truly showed the heart of a champion there.
> 
> To me, GSP is the funnest fighter to watch. Nick is the most exciting.


I agree with the win for Silva. It was pretty damn epic.

I also get kind of excited when I see GSP fight, but it's more akin to my excitement over seeing Fedor (whom I have no taste for either way) fight--I'm wondering if this is the fight he finally loses.


TheGreatOne said:


> Do you think Nick Diaz could beat GSP currently?


I think Diaz has potential to knock him out or submit him.

I just think that GSP coming in with his normal gameplan vs strikers would make it a long night for Diaz, and I think GSP's sub defense is good enough to avoid being submitted. He also has the stamina to keep up with Nick all five rounds.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 8, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> I'm not sure if you're referring to me or not



I'm not, just going by what you said about fans wanting to see more standup


Do you guys think it was necessary for BJ to retire?


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 8, 2011)

Etim-Barboza set for UFC 142.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 8, 2011)

I just don't see GSP losing to Diaz. Albeit I'm not the biggest Diaz fan, I just don't think he's on the level GSP is. Only people I see dethroning GSP is Rory McDonald, Ellenberger, Condit, maybe some other high level striker/wrestler?


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 8, 2011)

TheGreatOne said:


> I'm not, just going by what you said about fans wanting to see more standup
> 
> 
> Do you guys think it was necessary for BJ to retire?



BJ didn't retire. He is going to take a break though.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 8, 2011)

He still might retire. He's taking a break to think about it. 

I think he has more fight left in him, but I wouldn't lose any sleep if he did retire. He'll never be champ again.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 8, 2011)

Condit and Rory in a few years, but Ellenberger? I'm just not buying this guy's hype. Rocha exposed him, and his cardio is not very good (Condit fight, where he also got out-grappled). I don't see how he'd win a 5 round fight with GSP.


----------



## eHav (Nov 8, 2011)




----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 8, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Condit and Rory in a few years, but Ellenberger? I'm just not buying this guy's hype. Rocha exposed him, and his cardio is not very good (Condit fight). I don't see how he'd win a 5 round fight with GSP.



You mean Conduit.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 8, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> You mean Conduit.



Lol, Nick was really calm there.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 8, 2011)

Rory Mac has an injury, so Ebersole is fighting Claude Patrick. I really wanted to see that fight. Oh well, Patrick-Ebersole is still a great fight. I wonder if Rory will face Alves now.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 8, 2011)

Aw, man, Ebersole is fighting Claude Frog now? That was going to be a great fight....


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 9, 2011)

I think Patrick is gonna get his butt whooped.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 9, 2011)

I can't even remember who those guys are right now. 

But I did watch the latest episode of The Reem.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 9, 2011)

So what do you guys think about Allistair Overeem? Is he really as good as they make him out to be or is he hyped up?


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm not a fan of him, but I think he's the best striker in the HW division. He's a little hyped, but I guess we'll see for sure against Lesnar.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 9, 2011)

Allistair is going to have some big problems with the UFC's best wrestlers. Plus, I'm not really sold on K-1 type striking in MMA. Allistair has gotten tagged a few times by people he really should have looked fantastic against if he is supposed to be one of the "best" strikers in MMA. I think the biggest reason is because in K-1 he was able to use a tight guard to block serious damage, but in MMA the gloves are far too small to offer much protection.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 9, 2011)

K-1 striking and MMA striking are separate things, just as boxing and MMA boxing are. But K-1 carries over better since they also have to worry about kicks (just not takedowns).

That said, Overeem wasn't the most technical striker in K-1 or anything. 

I think he'll do fairly well in the UFC, but at the same time I think that the top 5 people in the UFC could beat him. Brock is going to give him some trouble if he doesn't finish it standing quickly.


----------



## Ben Beckman (Nov 10, 2011)

If nobody has seen this yet they should watch it, really funny shit.

Fedor vs. Aoki

singing


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 10, 2011)

Oh, I saw it.

Instead of fighting top competition, Fedor was always busy beating up cans.


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 10, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Allistair is going to have some big problems with the UFC's best wrestlers. Plus, I'm not really sold on K-1 type striking in MMA. Allistair has gotten tagged a few times by people he really should have looked fantastic against if he is supposed to be one of the "best" strikers in MMA. I think the biggest reason is because in K-1 he was able to use a tight guard to block serious damage, but in MMA the gloves are far too small to offer much protection.



There are really only 3 good wrestlers currently in the UFC at HW. Brock, Cain and Shane.

Brock, we're going to see what happens. Shane doesn't know how to use his wrestling at all, he would get wrecked. Cain is a mystery (we'll find out post Cain's fight against JDS and Overeem against Lesnar). Who else am I missing?


----------



## Mori` (Nov 10, 2011)

How has no one posted the biggest news of the week yet

Brittney Palmer is back with the UFC

wooooooooooooooo


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 10, 2011)

I can't think of many HW wrestlers in the UFC off the top of my head. 

Until Cormier wins the HW title in Strikeforce and UFC poaches him, that is.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 10, 2011)

I don't think Cormier is going to be in the HW division if he goes to the UFC. 

Great to hear Palmer is back. Only if the UFC still had Rachelle Leah.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 10, 2011)

I don't see why not. If he stomps Barnett hard enough he should be able to hang in the UFC at HW. He already stomped Bigfoot.

Maybe he'll get in shape and drop to 205, but then my HW wrestlers thing falls apart. I want him to stay fat.


----------



## Matariki (Nov 11, 2011)

Reem will beat Lesnar with ease

I predict a TKO in the 1st


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 11, 2011)

Even with his AIDS riddled body Lesnar still has more than enough chance at taking out Allistair.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 11, 2011)

If Lesnar can takedown Overeem at will (can't see why not), and doesn't get baited into standing up with him (possibility), then he will definitely win the fight.

It all depends on Brock's gameplan, Overeem's TDD/ability to get back up, and how aggressive Overeem is in the beginning seconds of each round. He could get a TKO if he plays it right.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 11, 2011)

Reem by first round guillotine choke 

Bendo and Guida... that fucking fight, SO STOKED. Gonna be crazy. I'm picking Bendo by UD.

JDS and Cain... no idea. Both rule, not really rooting for either.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 11, 2011)

I'm much more interested in the Overeem/Lesnar fight than the Cain/JDS one. 

Cain and JDS is a tough one to call though. I'm picking JDS, but that's only because I don't like Mexicans.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 11, 2011)

I'm not really interested in the Lesnar-Reem fight, to be honest. More interested for Diaz-Cerrone on that card.

Poirier-Garza and Bendo-Guida should be good. Reportedly, the winner of the latter fight will face Frankie in Japan for the title.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 11, 2011)

I keep forgetting who Poirier is. If I recall he was that kid that was hyped up to face Aldo and then got crushed by Hominick due to scheduling issues (lol).


----------



## Ben Beckman (Nov 11, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> I keep forgetting who Poirier is. If I recall he was that kid that was hyped up to face Aldo and then got crushed by Hominick due to scheduling issues (lol).



......No.

Poirier used to be a lightweight in the WEC, then moved down to featherweight for his UFC debut. He ended up fighting Josh Grispi, who was the hyped up kid that was supposed to fight Aldo before he got injured. Poirier ended up beating the shit outta Grispi and won a UD. Grispi then went on to fight George Roop (who got crushed by Hominick in his previous fight) and ended up losing by TKO I believe. Oh, and Poirier went on to win his next fight agaist Jason Young.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 11, 2011)

Fuck, knew I was probably mixing him up with someone.

Anywho, just saw the weigh ins for UFC on Fox. Fucking Mexicans up in that bitch boing all the non-Mexicans.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Yeah, I get the whole pride thing, but it gets annoying sometimes. Especially the Filipinos here for Pacquiao. You got some of them thinking he's the GOAT. 

Probably because I'm mixed, I don't really go behind the fighter who is the same race as me, but even if I wasn't, I doubt I would.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 12, 2011)

Hmmm, I gotta admit I do somewhat support my own "rasa," but not to the level where I would ever boo or trash another fighter. That's just a dick move. Especially when you're talking about someone as nice as JDS.


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 12, 2011)

race is a long after thought for me. im also mixed.

i do favor people from japan a lot, but mainly because there are so many fans of MMA over there, but no real home town heroes any more for them.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 12, 2011)

What about Hendo/ Shogun. I think Hendo takes this one I don't know how or what round but Hendo got it. Purely due to superior striking. And Wanderlei Silva/Cung Le? Gotta go with Cung Le.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Shogun has much better striking than Hendo. His wrestling, strength, and cardio are three things he has to use well if he wants to win this. If he chooses to stand up with Shogun, he might succumb to his first TKO loss.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 12, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> race is a long after thought for me. im also mixed.
> 
> i do favor people from japan a lot, but mainly because there are so many fans of MMA over there, but no real home town heroes any more for them.



Yeah, that's gotta fucking suck. Although, I must say that some people go overboard and really overrate the Japanese fighters because of that. Both Yamamoto and Hioki were supposed to be these phenoms and they ended up stumbling pretty badly in their first UFC fights. Hioki was supposed to be like a top 3 featherweight or something and he won a narrow decision against Roop.



TheGreatOne said:


> What about Hendo/ Shogun. I think Hendo takes this one I don't know how or what round but Hendo got it. Purely due to superior striking. And Wanderlei Silva/Cung Le? Gotta go with Cung Le.



Hendo is probably going to out-chin Shogun: i.e. take his best shot and keep throwing bombs until one lands.

As for Wanderlei/Le, even though I initially thought Wanderlei was a lost cause, I'm actually leaning more towards him at the moment. I don't think Le can finish Wanderlei early and will probably end up gassing while Wanderlei keeps pushing forward.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 12, 2011)

Hey do you guys think that if Cheick Kongo can beat another heavyweight, maybe on that is at the top of the division i.e Frank Mir or Big Nog. That he'd have a good argument for a title shot? Or does he need a couple more matches?


----------



## Tiger (Nov 12, 2011)

TheGreatOne said:


> Hey do you guys think that if Cheick Kongo can beat another heavyweight, maybe on that is at the top of the division i.e Frank Mir or Big Nog. That he'd have a good argument for a title shot? Or does he need a couple more matches?



Since losing to Mir and Velasquez, he's fought lesser opponents and looked shaky at times, and has had flashes of brilliance at other times, not losing since.

He may be the meanest-looking man in the division, looking almost surreal in his physique, but he's not consistently fantastic, and I think he needs to beat Lesnar (or similar) before he deserves a title shot.

I haven't been keeping tabs as much as I should be, so I'm not sure if Nelson is already slated to fight someone...but I think Nelson v Kongo is where they're both at in their careers at the moment. Then again, perhaps they'll put Nelson and Kongo against big nog and mir just to see them both rise up on separate paths at first..

Does the winner of Lesnar/Reem automatically get a shot?

Just some useless meanderings.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 12, 2011)

Law said:


> Since losing to Mir and Velasquez, he's fought lesser opponents and looked shaky at times, and has had flashes of brilliance at other times, not losing since.
> 
> He may be the meanest-looking man in the division, looking almost surreal in his physique, but he's not consistently fantastic, and I think he needs to beat Lesnar (or similar) before he deserves a title shot.
> 
> ...



Actually, the way the UFC works, it just might be. Think about when Brock Lesnar first came to the UFC. He hadn't even fought in 10 matches and he got a title shot. For all we know Lesnar-Reem winner(Allistair Overeem) will probabbly face Cain-Junior winner (Junior Dos Santos) for the title.


----------



## Tiger (Nov 12, 2011)

I looked it up, and it says Lesnar/Reem #1 contender fight. *shrug*

And for some reason I had no idea Mir and Nog had a match at 140. I suppose I didn't know because I really couldn't be bothered to give a shit about it?

Only reason I'm watching 140 is for Jones and Soszynski(sp?)...the rest looks boring as fuck.

That third judge is a crackhead.

"30-26, 30-26, ...*cough* 28-28" Seriously, what the hell? I'm sure some blind moron will respond to this and say they agreed with 28-28 just to be argumentative, but seriously they'd have to be stupid.


----------



## eHav (Nov 12, 2011)

realy liking Caceres or w/e his name is


----------



## Tiger (Nov 12, 2011)

eHav said:


> realy liking Caceres or w/e his name is



Alex "Bruce Leeroy" Caceres.

He looked phenomenal. Very exciting young kid to watch...I hope this wasn't just a flash in a pan for him, I want to see him continue that success and flair. That mid-fight switch kick was wicked. If it had landed squarely, the place would have exploded.


----------



## Freija (Nov 12, 2011)

Dos Santos - Velasquez stream for us Eurofags plz, I can only see the prelims on facebook.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 12, 2011)

Cain vs JDS main event should be on one of these links:


cheap oakleys
cheap oakleys
Link removed

I'll update later if those links don't work.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 12, 2011)

Garza looks very nervous.


----------



## eHav (Nov 12, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Cain vs JDS main event should be on one of these links:
> 
> 
> cheap oakleys
> ...



Link removed

this one aswell


----------



## Caedus (Nov 12, 2011)

that... was quick... lol


----------



## Matariki (Nov 12, 2011)

JDS. Amazing


----------



## eHav (Nov 12, 2011)

JDS owned him


----------



## martryn (Nov 12, 2011)

Wow.  Didn't see that coming.  Bet Dana White is less than thrilled to have a one minute long fight for the UFC's first television appearance on FOX or whatever.


----------



## Naruto Uzumaki (Nov 12, 2011)

jds the new hw king


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 12, 2011)

Fuck me I totally called that wrong, ha. I really thought Velasquez would survive the first big punch and switch to wrestling mode. Never really got the chance. 

JDS is going to be a tough nut to crack.



Also, fucking Brazilians are like half the UFC champions now. The fuck USA, get on that shit.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 12, 2011)

CAINS CARDIO IS TOO MUCH FOR JDS.

Yeah cuz MMA is a sport that NECESSARILY goes 5 rounds. 

Cain's gameplan wasn't that bad, when your opponent expects to get TD kick his legs to shit. Got burnt. Happens.

I'm pleased, but hopefully, people don't start swinging from his nuts.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 12, 2011)

Crazy. Literally sat downstairs watching the whole build up for the event with my family only to see a fight that lasted about a minute. That was crazy, haha.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 12, 2011)

I dunno, I've been on about how great JDS for such a long time, but I never would have thought he would TKO Cain that easily. I really didn't think he had a shot at stopping Cain's wrestling. Cain got hit in a bad spot though. Same shit that did in GSP.

Still going with Lesnar over Overeem though. Lesnar is at least humble enough to know standing with Overeem is a shit idea.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Reem has to beat Lesnar now.

Bendo-Guida was a good fight, still think they should have televised that.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 12, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> I dunno, I've been on about how great JDS for such a long time, but I never would have thought he would TKO Cain that easily. I really didn't think he had a shot at stopping Cain's wrestling. Cain got hit in a bad spot though. Same shit that did in GSP.
> 
> Still going with Lesnar over Overeem though. Lesnar is at least humble enough to know standing with Overeem is a shit idea.



Cain wasn't "standing" with JDS. He was just establishing his standup in order to unpredictably take him down. In fact he _did_ go for a takedown, JDS just stuffed it.

Honestly his gameplan was ok, hindsight is 20/20 but before the fight, nobody would've said that there is a glaring inferiority in striking on Cain#s side. he was just using his superior versatility but got caught the worst way possible.

Also, don't think Overeem is comparable to JDS as he isn't nearly as explosive and fearless.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 12, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Cain wasn't "standing" with JDS. He was just establishing his standup in order to unpredictably take him down. In fact he _did_ go for a takedown, JDS just stuffed it.
> 
> Honestly his gameplan was ok, hindsight is 20/20 but before the fight, nobody would've said that there is a glaring inferiority in striking on Cain#s side. he was just using his superior versatility but got caught the worst way possible.
> 
> Also, don't think Overeem is comparable to JDS as he isn't nearly as explosive and fearless.



I thought the only people that gave Cain a chance standing were Mexican. 

Cain got caught in a terrible spot too. Mexican chin won't help you when you're hit behind the ear, son. 

Incidentally, Pacquiao vs Marquez is going to make this a terrible night for Latinos.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 12, 2011)

If Marquez gets knocked out tonight too, there will be rioting Mexicans everywhere.


----------



## Naruto Uzumaki (Nov 12, 2011)

perfect punch


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 12, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> I thought the only people that gave Cain a chance standing were Mexican.
> 
> Cain got caught in a terrible spot too. Mexican chin won't help you when you're hit behind the ear, son.
> 
> Incidentally, Pacquiao vs Marquez is going to make this a terrible night for Latinos.



Cain was never gonna comprehensively outbox JDS but his overall striking is too good to just shoot for takedowns blindly. I mean, again, kicking the shit out of your opponents legs is pretty ingenious when they expect a takedown. 

I wonder what Haterade thinks about JDS "non-existant" defence.  Seems like it exists more than the undefeated champ. 

Also, it seems that Dana is being a vagina again.  

And read through Sherdog guys, many posters crying cuz to the casual watcher, MMA looks inferior to boxing.  I wonder why these motherfuckers have such an inferiority complex towards that sport.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 12, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Cain was never gonna comprehensively outbox JDS but his overall striking is too good to just shoot for takedowns blindly. I mean, again, kicking the shit out of your opponents legs is pretty ingenious when they expect a takedown.
> 
> I wonder what Haterade thinks about JDS "non-existant" defence.  Seems like it exists more than the undefeated champ.
> 
> ...



I don't know if you're friends with any boxing fans, but a lot of them are kind of assholes when it comes to MMA. They prejudge and shit talk a whole lot. I mean, I can understand why the boxers do it even if I disagree with it, but if you're just a fan and your fat ass is currently fusing itself with the fabric of your couch because you've been sitting on it for the past 5 years you need to shut the fuck up trashing professional athletes that throw down for a living.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 12, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> I don't know if you're friends with any boxing fans, but a lot of them are kind of assholes when it comes to MMA. They prejudge and shit talk a whole lot. I mean, I can understand why the boxers do it even if I disagree with it, but if you're just a fan and your fat ass is currently fusing itself with the fabric of your couch because you've been sitting on it for the past 5 years you need to shut the fuck up trashing professional athletes that throw down for a living.



To my knowledge, MMa fantards are the much bigger assholes when it comes to this "rivalry". 

I don't think people in ESB go to it's MMA subforum and bash MMA as often as Sherdoggers go to THEIR boxing subforum and act like cunts. 

IRL, most boxing fans I know also like MMA.


----------



## Yakuza (Nov 12, 2011)

JDS OH YEAH!!!

Now we need Lyoto to beat Jones to begin domination. God the Beazilian presenter is a fucking dick, doesn't know shit about MMA, was onl put in to do the commentary because he is the face of the channel when it comes to sport. What a fucking moron!

Brazil is a proud place tonight.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 12, 2011)

Yakuza said:


> JDS OH YEAH!!!
> 
> Now we need Lyoto to beat Jones to begin domination. God the Beazilian presenter is a fucking dick, doesn't know shit about MMA, was onl put in to do the commentary because he is the face of the channel when it comes to sport. What a fucking moron!
> 
> Brazil is a proud place tonight.



I was rooting for JDs and will be rooting for Lyoto but also against Anderson. 

What does that make me? :ho


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 12, 2011)

Yakuza said:


> JDS OH YEAH!!!
> 
> Now we need Lyoto to beat Jones to begin domination. God the Beazilian presenter is a fucking dick, doesn't know shit about MMA, was onl put in to do the commentary because he is the face of the channel when it comes to sport. What a fucking moron!
> 
> Brazil is a proud place tonight.



I wonder how many people from Brazil actually watched the fight.



Aokiji said:


> To my knowledge, MMa fantards are the much bigger assholes when it comes to this "rivalry".
> 
> I don't think people in ESB go to it's MMA subforum and bash MMA as often as Sherdoggers go to THEIR boxing subforum and act like cunts.
> 
> IRL, most boxing fans I know also like MMA.



It's not being an asshole if it's true -.-

Actually, I know what you mean. It's really just that sports fans are a representation of people as a whole, and a lot of people are assholes. lol.

But boxing fans are less aware of what MMA is than vice versa so there is less predilection to shit talking.




ALSO, just announced in the presser by Dana: Edgar vs Henderson in JAPAN.

Awww shieeeeettttt.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 12, 2011)

Dana keeps saying 60 million Brazilians watched the fight, I don't believe his lying ass!


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 12, 2011)

I hope he ends Edgar.


----------



## Yakuza (Nov 12, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Dana keeps saying 60 million Brazilians watched the fight, I don't believe his lying ass!



It was broadcasted in Globo, the main Brazilian tv station. Add their strong marketing with a Brazilian fighter and you get  at least 1/3 of the country watching. the numbers are right.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 12, 2011)

I had a feeling Cain was going to lose. Junior is just the better fighter. Now I just need to actually see the fight. I always check Sherdog first to see the results and then I actually check to see how the fight went.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 12, 2011)

Yakuza said:


> JDS OH YEAH!!!
> 
> Now we need Lyoto to beat Jones to begin domination. God the Beazilian presenter is a fucking dick, doesn't know shit about MMA, was onl put in to do the commentary because he is the face of the channel when it comes to sport. What a fucking moron!
> 
> Brazil is a proud place tonight.



Lyoto beating Jones? Lyoto will have to kick up BIG TIME for that to happen. Only Brazilians who has a chance to beat Jones is probabbly Shogun or Anderson Silva. Lyoto isn't there yet


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 12, 2011)

TheGreatOne said:


> I had a feeling Cain was going to lose. Junior is just the better fighter. Now I just need to actually see the fight. I always check Sherdog first to see the results and then I actually check to see how the fight went.



And if Cain won, you would've said Cain is the better fighter, right?


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 12, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> And if Cain won, you would've said Cain is the better fighter, right?



Nope. Check a post I made earlier today in the thread I said JDS would win. I wouldve been indiferent if Cain won becasue I never particularly liked him I'm not a bandwagon so I hope your not suggesting that. I stick with what I say


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 12, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> I hope he ends Edgar.



Not sure what's with the Edgar hate, but I think Bendo presents basically the same problem for Edgar that Maynard did in that he is a bigger, stronger, and obviously slower opponent. In short, I think he is probably not going to be the one to dethrone the champ. Then again, Henderson does have better stamina than Maynard, so who knows? XD



Yakuza said:


> It was broadcasted in Globo, the main Brazilian tv station. Add their strong marketing with a Brazilian fighter and you get  at least 1/3 of the country watching. the numbers are right.



Why the fuck is it so popular in Brazil but no one in the US knows what MMA even stands for? God this country can be fucking lame sometimes.



TheGreatOne said:


> I had a feeling Cain was going to lose. Junior is just the better fighter. Now I just need to actually see the fight. I always check Sherdog first to see the results and then I actually check to see how the fight went.


You saying you purposely spoiler yourself before watching a fight? Da fuck?


TheGreatOne said:


> Lyoto beating Jones? Lyoto will have to kick up BIG TIME for that to happen. Only Brazilians who has a chance to beat Jones is probabbly Shogun or Anderson Silva. Lyoto isn't there yet



Can't believe you're giving Shogun a better chance than Lyoto. First of all, hasn't Shogun already taken an ass beating from Jones? You really want to see that again?


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 12, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Not sure what's with the Edgar hate, but I think Bendo presents basically the same problem for Edgar that Maynard did in that he is a bigger, stronger, and obviously slower opponent. In short, I think he is probably not going to be the one to dethrone the champ. Then again, Henderson does have better stamina than Maynard, so who knows? XD
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lyoto Kicked Shoguns ass first too but what happened the second fight?


----------



## eHav (Nov 12, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Can't believe you're giving Shogun a better chance than Lyoto. First of all, hasn't Shogun already taken an ass beating from Jones? You really want to see that again?



shogun was realy out of himself that day, he was nothing like THE shogun that could take on jones


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 13, 2011)

Congrats to Cigano though. Almost impossible to hate the guy. I'm not a fan of either fighters, but he deserved that win. 

I remember when some people were comparing this (not in this thread) to Fedor-Mirko.


----------



## Matariki (Nov 13, 2011)

"how good were crocop and fedor man? really? old crocop gave jds a good war, imagine the crocop of 2006. its always nice to see new raising hws but it really dimishes their succes because if they get compared to prime crocop/fedor they just look like b level fighters."

True dat


----------



## Gaja (Nov 13, 2011)

Epic signature Lucifer  (wish I could rep you again)

Anyway congratz JDS, I was kinda picking him over Cain. Didn't expect that it was gonna be over that fast though, but when big guys hit, other big guys fall I guess.

Looking forward to JDS vs Overeem 

Also wondering what kind of numbers the broadcast made, both in the states and in Brazil.


----------



## Yakuza (Nov 13, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Why the fuck is it so popular in Brazil but no one in the US knows what MMA even stands for? God this country can be fucking lame sometimes.


Well, it's not even tha. Although ValeTudo is popular in Brazil, MMA is a different sport.

Most of the fans watching were most likely first time viewers because sports other than soccer/basketball/volleyball/F1 only shown cable, so I assume (with a Brazilian fighting for the title) it attracted neutrals attention.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 13, 2011)

TheGreatOne said:


> Lyoto Kicked Shoguns ass first too but what happened the second fight?



I wouldn't say Lyoto kicked his ass. He narrowly out pointed him. Conversely, Jon Jones left pretty much no question as to who was the better fighter when he beat Shogun. I almost want to see Shogun get another title shot so he can get beaten again and people will stfu about how he "wasn't himself" that night.



eHav said:


> shogun was realy out of himself that day, he was nothing like THE shogun that could take on jones



There is no version of Shogun that beats Jones.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 13, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> I wouldn't say Lyoto kicked his ass. He narrowly out pointed him. Conversely, Jon Jones left pretty much no question as to who was the better fighter when he beat Shogun. I almost want to see Shogun get another title shot so he can get beaten again and people will stfu about how he "wasn't himself" that night.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no version of Shogun that beats Jones.



Lyoto didn't outpoint shit, Shogun was robbed.

And as i said before, Jones beating Shogun DID leave questions as he had a flash KO moment much like JDS did against Cain, except Shogun has a chin.

Against Rampage, yeah, barring a lucky punch, Jones aint gonna lose. Can't say the same bout Shogun. 

Also how do Jones nuts taste?


----------



## martryn (Nov 13, 2011)

I just hope Brock grows out his beard again.  Looks so fucking epic.  

Been watching SharkFights on fucking Fuel TV.  Fuel did a decent job covering last night's fight, but SharkFights are... damn, those guys suck.  It's hilarious.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 13, 2011)

So who is Cain going to fight next? Should be Carwin or Kongo imo, but I think they might set up Nelson-Kongo.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 13, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Lyoto didn't outpoint shit, Shogun was robbed.
> 
> And as i said before, Jones beating Shogun DID leave questions as he had a flash KO moment much like JDS did against Cain, except Shogun has a chin.
> 
> ...



I said narrowly, didn't I? -.-
My point being that it left enough questions to justify the rematch. 

The only people with any belief that Shogun could fight Jones again and have any shot at winning are his fanboys.

I'm actually going to laugh my ass off when at UFC 139 Shogun gets clipped by Hendo and is sent sprawling to the canvas.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 13, 2011)

Gallic: The Shogun hater. One of the worst types of MMA fans.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 13, 2011)

Lol, I don't hate him, I just think it's funny how fanboys get caught up in his image.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 13, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> I said narrowly, didn't I? -.-
> My point being that it left enough questions to justify the rematch.
> 
> The only people with any belief that Shogun could fight Jones again and have any shot at winning are his fanboys.
> ...



Any fighter has a shot at beating anyone. I am not going to believe that Jones is some invincible superman just because he hasn't lost yet, similar things were said for Cain too. very fighter can be beaten unless proven otherwise. 

There is nothing ridiculous in claiming that Shogun could beat Jones. 

Butthurt.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 13, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> So who is Cain going to fight next? Should be Carwin or Kongo imo, but I think they might set up Nelson-Kongo.



Carwin should be fed someone easier, so Kongo and Cain it should be.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 13, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Any fighter has a shot at beating anyone. I am not going to believe that Jones is some invincible superman just because he hasn't lost yet, similar things were said for Cain too. very fighter can be beaten unless proven otherwise.
> 
> There is nothing ridiculous in claiming that Shogun could beat Jones.
> 
> Butthurt.



Lol, are you trying to push my buttons or something? I don't care if Shogun does win. If he does, good for him. 

And no one is asking you to believe Jones is invincible. Jones is very beatable; in fact, I'm thinking Machida has a shot at beating him. Rashad will be a difficult test as well if/when that fight happens.


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 13, 2011)

I see Cain fighting Mir if Frank beats Nogueria again.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 13, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Any fighter has a shot at beating anyone. I am not going to believe that Jones is some invincible superman just because he hasn't lost yet, similar things were said for Cain too. very fighter can be beaten unless proven otherwise.
> 
> There is nothing ridiculous in claiming that Shogun could beat Jones.
> 
> Butthurt.



Na man Jones is different. He's taking on every top tier light heavyweight in the division. He can stay on top for a long time. Shogun has a good chance but its unlikely. Only people I see MAYBE beating Jones for entire light heavyweight division is like Rashad Evan maybe Phil Davis when he gets a little more experience maybe Hendo can if he decides to stay at light heavy.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 14, 2011)

Man, I didn't even know Miguel Torres was on this UFC 139 card. All the way in the prelims.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 14, 2011)

The card overall was incredible. There were so many great fights. It's a shame they only showed the one 64-second fight on FOX, and neglected to air Bendo/Guida (amazing fight) though. The commercials and build-up chat killed it for me.

Glad JDS won. The Shrexican just couldn't hang. 


Ben Henderson vs Edgar should be pretty epic, but I'd be picking Edgar to win. He's fast enough and good enough to keep it standing, I think, and he'll be able to beat Ben on the feet. I don't think he'll be able to finish him, but not many people have that ability.


Shogun vs Hendo should be epic, but I'm picking Hendo because I like him more. There is no real reason other than that. Shogun is faster, has better striking, is more dynamic in his striking, and has a good chin. But Hendo will still knock him out.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 14, 2011)

Shougn does not have better striking than Hendo


----------



## Tiger (Nov 14, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> And as i said before, Jones beating Shogun DID leave questions as he had a flash KO moment much like JDS did against Cain, except Shogun has a chin.



Jones has never once not looked completely dominant in a fight. That is the only question to be raised at this point in time. He either catches Shogun early or picks him into tiny pieces like Rampage.



> Against Rampage, yeah, barring a lucky punch, Jones aint gonna lose. Can't say the same bout Shogun.
> 
> Also how do Jones nuts taste?



Rampage and Shogun are not so far apart that you couldn't say the same. How do Shogun's nuts taste?  You're talking to someone who's defending the currently most dominant LHW...and you're on his case for being up Jones' ass? Continued in my response to your next quote.



Lucifer Morningstar said:


> So who is Cain going to fight next? Should be Carwin or Kongo imo, but I think they might set up Nelson-Kongo.



Nelson-Kongo - winner -> Carwin
Mir-Big Nog(should just call him The Ogre) - winner -> Velasquez
Lesnar-Reem - winner -> ...title shot?

The next three HW fights the way I see it.



Aokiji said:


> Any fighter has a shot at beating anyone. I am not going to believe that Jones is some invincible superman just because he hasn't lost yet, similar things were said for Cain too. very fighter can be beaten unless proven otherwise.
> 
> There is nothing ridiculous in claiming that Shogun could beat Jones.
> 
> Butthurt.



It's ridiculous to say a fighter can't be beaten. 100% true. It's not ridiculous to say no fighter currently is going to go in and beat Jones up and win a decision. I don't see anyone doing that in the current division.

_Can Shogun beat Jones?_ Absolutely he can. _Will he?_ Not very likely.

You also said something really stupid. _"Every fighter can be beaten unless proven otherwise."_ At what point, in your brain, has a fighter proven he can't be beaten? That flies directly in the face of every point you're trying to make. There is no fighter in the history of the sport that can't be beaten. Period. That being said, it's hard to get one over on a hot fighter, and Jones is the hottest. It's statements like this, from people flying the Shogun flag that make me hope he does get another chance at Jones. I do like Shogun a lot, and I think he'll take out Hendo. I agreed that he was robbed in his first attempt at Machida.

But the best I've seen Shogun...I'd still put money on Jones. It would be a wicked fight, and Jones' toughest test, but he would still win. I too, would like to see Jones in a match where it looks like he has to _try_.

But the main problem with these conversations is, Shogun's major fans will never admit he was 'top form Shogun' if he loses.



Violent By Design said:


> I see Cain fighting Mir if Frank beats Nogueria again.



I just can't envision Mir beating Cain. But yes I agree.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 14, 2011)

The things that worry me about Benson are:

1) His strength/size
2) Cardio
3) TDD/wrestling

I think Frankie has a pretty clear advantage in striking, but Benson pushes a pretty relentless pace. He's gone 5 rounds before and his tree trunk legs are pretty damn useful (especially for TDD, with the way he was doing the splits and shit against Guida, who is a very aggressive wrestler).

Still rooting for my boy Frankie in a UD, but this is going to be a fight. All you heard was Frankie don't hit me no more. :ho


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 14, 2011)

You guys here about the Akiyama vs Shields fight for UFC 144 Japan?

Going to be interesting I think.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 14, 2011)

I love Shields, but I was hoping he would move up to the MW division. This match-up is a little intriguing, but I'm going with Shields in a round 2 submission.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 14, 2011)

TheGreatOne said:


> Shougn does not have better striking than Hendo



Well he uses kicks and knees and is more versatile. Hendo tends to just throw H-bombs.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 15, 2011)

Cotto wants Nick Diaz for his camp in preparation for his fight with Margarito. They have somewhat similar boxing styles. I think it's a great move for them both.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 15, 2011)

Everyone wants a piece of Nick Diaz's ass.


----------



## Rated R Superstar (Nov 16, 2011)

TheGreatOne said:


> Shougn does not have better striking than Hendo



I think Shogun overall is a better striker than Hendo. Shogun's striking is more diverse. He utilizes kicks better than Hendo. And while I do believe Hendo is gonna leave Shogun planking come saturday night(i couldnt resist. lol), I think Shogun is the superior striker.

BTW, I just wanna say that if Shogun beats Hendo on saturday,I think he is by far the greatest LHW ever. His overall resume at LHW would be untouchable. He might not have had a lenghty reign as champ, but hes certainly beaten a whos who of the division...

Chuck, Rampage, Reem, Lil nog, Arona, Griffin, Machida....Hendo?


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 16, 2011)

I think most would say the top 5 is: Wand, Liddell, Rampage, Shogun, and Tito. For me, it's Wand with Liddell right behind him, mostly for how long they've stayed on the top consistently while winning/defending titles (both defended 4 times iirc). You have to take that into consideration. 

It depends on your criteria, but I think you have to take everything into consideration. As for quality opponents he's beaten, I agree with you. He might even have a case right now. Only Rampage can say that he has beaten more quality opponents in the LHW division. 

Hendo has beaten more quality opponents than them, if you take it from an open-weight, P4P point of view, but I'm talking strictly against LHWs.

Out of the top 4 all-time, they've all fought each other, aside from Shogun-Wand obviously.

Quinton Jackson vs Chuck Liddell - November, 2003. Quinton via TKO
Wanderlei Silva vs. Quinton Jackson - November, 2003. Wanderlei via TKO.
Wanderlei Silva vs. Quinton Jackson - October, 2004. Wanderlei via KO.
Mauricio Rua vs. Quinton Jackson - April, 2005. Mauricio via TKO.
Quinton Jackson vs. Chuck Liddell - May, 2007. Quinton via TKO.
Chuck Liddell vs. Wanderlei Silva - December, 2007. Chuck via Unanimous Decision.
Quinton Jackson vs. Wanderlei Silva - December, 2008. Quinton via KO.
Mauricio Rua vs. Chuck Liddell - April, 2009. Mauricio via KO.

Rampage: 3-3
Wanderlei: 2-2
Chuck: 1-3
Shogun: 2-0

Even if Shogun beats Hendo, the only possible change is that he is for sure ahead of Rampage.

1) Wand/Liddell
2) Shogun/Rampage
3) Tito
4) Frank

If Shogun beats Hendo, Bones, and successfully defends the title at least 2 times, I think he's the clear-cut LHW GOAT.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 16, 2011)

Rated R Superstar said:


> I think Shogun overall is a better striker than Hendo. Shogun's striking is more diverse. He utilizes kicks better than Hendo. And while I do believe Hendo is gonna leave Shogun planking come saturday night(i couldnt resist. lol), I think Shogun is the superior striker.
> 
> BTW, I just wanna say that if Shogun beats Hendo on saturday,I think he is by far the greatest LHW ever. His overall resume at LHW would be untouchable. He might not have had a lenghty reign as champ, but hes certainly beaten a whos who of the division...
> 
> Chuck, Rampage, Reem, Lil nog, Arona, Griffin, Machida....Hendo?



Good thing Hendo will be winning that fight n____n

Also, can you guys stop naming Forrest Griffin as a big win for anybody? Guy got KO'd by fuckin' Keith Jardine. More holes in his defense than swiss cheese and a glass chin to boot.


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 16, 2011)

Rua is already the greatest LHW going by wins. Going by objective skill set, he is the best as well (I suppose you could say Jones is since he is current champ, but Rua is more tested etc).


I don't get why losing to Keith Jardine is such a bad thing. Keith isn't a bad fighter by any means, and has given hard fights to a lot of guys. Too bad he can't take a punch.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 16, 2011)

Seiko said:


> All this drama about the Reem. Hope he can stay focused on his fight. :/


I think he'll do pretty well, but I also see him losing against Brock.




Gallic Rush said:


> Good thing Hendo will be winning that fight n____n
> 
> Also, can you guys stop naming Forrest Griffin as a big win for anybody? Guy got KO'd by fuckin' Keith Jardine. More holes in his defense than swiss cheese and a glass chin to boot.


Forrest Griffin has beaten a who's-who of greats in various divisions:
Shogun
Rampage
Chael Sonnen
Jeff Monson (considered to be a top 5 HW at one time)
Ortiz
Franklin

Why you hatin'?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 16, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Rua is already the greatest LHW going by wins. Going by objective skill set, he is the best as well (I suppose you could say Jones is since he is current champ, but Rua is more tested etc).
> 
> 
> I don't get why losing to Keith Jardine is such a bad thing. Keith isn't a bad fighter by any means, and has given hard fights to a lot of guys. Too bad he can't take a punch.


Jardine is a sloppy fighter. He KO'd Griffin because Griffin has pillow hands and a glass jaw. 



CrazyMoronX said:


> Forrest Griffin has beaten a who's-who of greats in various divisions:
> Shogun *Wasn't a bad win, too bad he couldn't reproduce it.*
> Rampage *Leg kicked his way to victory. +Rampage weak ground game.*
> Chael Sonnen *Triangled him. And really, who hasn't at this point?*
> ...


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 16, 2011)

Still hatin'.

You laugh at Monson, but he has a pretty good record and he's an ADCC champ.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 16, 2011)

Oh please, when he fought Forrest, Monson MMA record was 7 and 4. Plus, the ADCC in them days wasn't what it is now. A lot of the best guys didn't bother going to tournaments (some still don't, actually). I would have to watch the fight to be sure, but I'm going to go ahead and guess Monson's striking was terrible then (because it is today) and his takedowns were fair to midland.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 16, 2011)

Even negating Jeff Monson, I think Forrest gives trouble to a lot of top LHW's still. I forgot why we're even talking about him anyway.


We should be talking about how badly Hendo is going to knock out Shogun.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 16, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> We should be talking about how badly Hendo is going to knock out Shogun.



Less ruthless than the Bisping KO, but more brutal than the Fedor KO.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 16, 2011)

If Shogun manages to knock out Hendo I'll have my NF account deleted. 

Believe that.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 16, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> You guys here about the Akiyama vs Shields fight for UFC 144 Japan?
> 
> Going to be interesting I think.



I thought Akiyama was fired after his loss to Vitor Belfort


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 16, 2011)

No... Akiyama is still with the UFC. From what I understand the UFC said drop to welterweight or we'll cut you from the org. 

And well...


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 16, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Less ruthless than the Bisping KO, but more brutal than the Fedor KO.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 16, 2011)

I'm sorry, you were saying?


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 16, 2011)

Negged         .


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 16, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Jardine is a sloppy fighter. He KO'd Griffin because Griffin has pillow hands and a glass jaw.



Your response to CMX was the most sterotypical sherdog-esq post I've seen on here in a while lol.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 16, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Your response to CMX was the most sterotypical sherdog-esq post I've seen on here in a while lol.



How dare you.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 16, 2011)

Sexyama looks super sexy at 170.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 16, 2011)

> None of these guys that are trying to hold me could ever fight me out on the street. I'd beat the shit out of 'em all over the ground.





**


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 16, 2011)

Nick Diaz: Neo King of the Streets.


Mean Mug edition.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 16, 2011)

Am I crazy to think Wanderlei is going to TKO Le? I really think he's going to do it the more I look at that match up. I hope he manages to avoid getting jacked at any rate.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 16, 2011)

It's going to be an interesting fight. I can see it going both ways, but I also think that Cung Le provides a very dangerous style of technical striking and evasion for Wand. Could go to sleep in this one.


----------



## pussyking (Nov 16, 2011)

maaayne. Valasquez is a bitch! I can't believe he got chin checked 30 seconds into the fight.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 16, 2011)

I don't think there are many fighters who would have survived that behind-the-ear shot like that from JDS.

Watch Cain's fight vs Kongo to see his chin abilities.


----------



## Tiger (Nov 16, 2011)

pussyking said:


> maaayne. Valasquez is a bitch! I can't believe he got chin checked 30 seconds into the fight.



Yeah, what a weak asshole.


----------



## pussyking (Nov 16, 2011)

my fault, not chin i meant head. i kinda thought he was gonna divert the punch or take it and keep going but he took it and probably will have mushy brains in a few years.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 16, 2011)

The type of punch Cain got hit with will knock down most guys. It's one of the toughest punches a guy can throw honestly, especially when someone like JDS is behind it. 

See GSP-Serra 1, Fedor-Fujita (Fedor didn't get dropped, but you can see how much impact was behind it), Nelson-Schaub, and I believe Mirko-Schaub (though I don't want to look back for it to make sure).

With the exception of Fedor, all those guys got dropped quick and GSP is the only one who wasn't finished immediately after. Cain got stunned, but he still needed more to be finished. He doesn't have anywhere near a bad chin.

Edit: Here's the Fedor one.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 16, 2011)

Sergio Martinez (boxer) hit Paul Williams with a behind the ear shot and KO'd him in one go. Wasn't even that clean of a shot if I remember. 


Also, Wanderlei pre-fight interview: here.


----------



## pussyking (Nov 16, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> The type of punch Cain got hit with will knock down most guys. It's one of the toughest punches a guy can throw honestly, especially when someone like JDS is behind it.
> 
> See GSP-Serra 1, Fedor-Fujita (Fedor didn't get dropped, but you can see how much impact was behind it), Nelson-Schaub, and I believe Mirko-Schaub (though I don't want to look back for it to make sure).
> 
> ...


----------



## Naruto Uzumaki (Nov 16, 2011)

shogun is the lhw goat end of story


----------



## Naruto Uzumaki (Nov 16, 2011)

pussyking said:


> maaayne. Valasquez is a bitch! I can't believe he got chin checked 30 seconds into the fight.


chuck got hit with that punch and to the jaw and he was out for 2 minutes and shit hisself
cain got hit in the temple and was dazed but didnt face plant anyone and i mean anyone would have got droped and 80% of the mma community would have been out cold


----------



## Rated R Superstar (Nov 17, 2011)

The whole "Cain has a weak chin" line has no legs to stand on. Besides, that kind of punch would knock almost anybody off their rocker. Not to mention, Cain took multiple hooks from Kongo, who himself is a powerful puncher. Any arguments about Cain havin a weak chin shoulda been put to rest the moment he was able to pull out the win againts Kongo.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 17, 2011)

I'm going to predict that UFC 139 is going to be the best card of the year. I don't think any prelims this year is going to come close to this, and the main card is stacked as hell too. Faber-Bowles and Wand-Le could be main events on their own (UFC Live event, but whatever). Add a fight between 2 PRIDE favourites fans have wanted years ago, and I just can't see myself being disappointed. 

Torres and Kampmann almost always bring it. McDonald, Story, and Kingsbury are all pretty consistent guys too. We got some good wrestling/striking for a match that will hopefully go 3 rounds in Bader-Brilz. 

Brittney Palmer will probably make her return too.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 17, 2011)

Britney Palmer has fake-ass titties. 


I'm getting pretty excited for Saturday, and I don't get excited for shit. Hendo gonna bring the H-Bomb.


----------



## Gaja (Nov 17, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> I'm going to predict that UFC 139 is going to be the best card of the year. I don't think any prelims this year is going to come close to this, and the main card is stacked as hell too. Faber-Bowles and Wand-Le could be main events on their own (UFC Live event, but whatever). Add a fight between 2 PRIDE favourites fans have wanted years ago, and I just can't see myself being disappointed.
> 
> Torres and Kampmann almost always bring it. McDonald, Story, and Kingsbury are all pretty consistent guys too. We got some good wrestling/striking for a match that will hopefully go 3 rounds in Bader-Brilz.
> 
> Brittney Palmer will probably make her return too.



I second this. 

Wonder how the Kampmann vs Story fight is gonna go...



CrazyMoronX said:


> Britney Palmer has fake-ass titties.
> 
> 
> I'm getting pretty excited for Saturday, and I don't get excited for shit. Hendo gonna bring the H-Bomb.



Even so she's the bomb. 

But that aside, fuck yeah Hendo's gonna bring the H-bomb. It's gonna be epic.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 17, 2011)

I dislike girls with fake-ass titties. I'd rather have small-to-no titties than big fake ones. 


What will you do when Hendo wins the LHW strap?


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 17, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I dislike girls with fake-ass titties. I'd rather have small-to-no titties than big fake ones.
> 
> 
> What will you do when Hendo wins the LHW strap?



knock you out


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 17, 2011)

Come at me. 


I watch a lot of UFC.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 17, 2011)

I don't understand why people care about the ring girls. Seems like a distraction, really.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 17, 2011)

I like checking out their fine asses--sometimes.

Otherwise they are all skanks. I mean, I was semi-interested when Arianny did Playboy. Then I saw the pictures and wish I hadn't.


----------



## Tiger (Nov 17, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> I don't understand why people care about the ring girls. Seems like a distraction, really.



Because we have dicks.

I'm with CMX. If she's made of plastic, she may as well be an inanimate object for all my libido thinks.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 17, 2011)

And here I thought you were all hockey playing lesbians.


----------



## Gaja (Nov 17, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I dislike girls with fake-ass titties. I'd rather have small-to-no titties than big fake ones.
> 
> 
> What will you do when Hendo wins the LHW strap?



I like em in all sizes to be honest. 

And when Hendo wins it, I'll have someone make me a Hendo set from this clip. 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rCmRdLnXWU&list=LLCr1HWA4h9ZVrFjEvGjWpYQ&index=21&feature=plpp_video[/YOUTUBE]

Link


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 17, 2011)

Just like dem real tittays, bro.



I also like Urijah Faber's nutchin.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 17, 2011)

Yeah, i always prefer natural over plastic, but Brittney seems like a cool chick. You get the cunty vibe from Arianny, and Chandella is just there.

What's terrible is girls with really hard asses. Feels like you're fucking the Hulk or some shit. It may look good, but once you get to work...


----------



## Tiger (Nov 17, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> And here I thought you were all hockey playing lesbians.



Sir, what in the fuck is wrong with hockey-playing lesbians?! Don't you dare bad-mouth that wonderful phenomena!


----------



## Skylark (Nov 17, 2011)

I see Shogun being too fast for Henderson. Bisping was outpointing Hendo on the feet, and Shogun is a significantly better Muay Thai striker than Bisping, and has the defence to avoid the big right hand. Shogun's going to outclass Henderson for the entire fight, and take a comfortable UD.

And by the way, fake breasts or not, I'd still practice my Jiu-Jitsu with Brittney Palmer.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 18, 2011)

Florian recently got in some Jiu-Jitsu training with her.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 18, 2011)

Skylark said:


> I see Shogun being too fast for Henderson. Bisping was outpointing Hendo on the feet, and Shogun is a significantly better Muay Thai striker than Bisping, and has the defence to avoid the big right hand. Shogun's going to outclass Henderson for the entire fight, and take a comfortable UD.
> 
> And by the way, fake breasts or not, I'd still practice my Jiu-Jitsu with Brittney Palmer.


Not saying I wouldn't put my penis in her butt if given the chance, but I wouldn't work for it.

I think Hendo has a good chance here, honestly. He has good wrestling and can dictate where the fight takes place. I see him getting Shogun up on the fence, maybe taking him down, and just pounding him out.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 18, 2011)

In other news: UFC on FX 1 will be a 3 round fight between Melvin Guillard and Jim Miller.

EDIT: This just in, Lauzon vs Pettis confirmed for UFC 144 Japan.
The SHIT is going DOWN in the lightweight division, kids!


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 18, 2011)

Three round what now?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 18, 2011)

Yeah, guess it's part of the Fox deal that the non title fights are 3 rounds or something.

EDIT: Mark Hunt Vs Cheick Kongo added to the UFC 144 Japan card. I feel bad for Hunt, that's a terrible match up for him.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 18, 2011)

Could be good for Hunt, actually.

If he can stuff Kongo's takedowns, I think he takes it standing. Sure his chin ain't what it used to be, but he still has dat powa.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 18, 2011)

Mark Hunt is too slow on his feet. Kongo has an 8 inch reach advantage and is probably going to just circle around Hunt all night. Kongo's wrestling also looked improved; so, I think taking down Hunt is also a possibility for him.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 18, 2011)

Kongo will try to Mitrione Hunt, but Hunt is going to come in there to fight.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 18, 2011)

Weigh ins live stream on youtube (I think you have to go to youtube to watch it; so, I don't know why I'm bothering to embed):

[YOUTUBE]tVBUzwkDrRo[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Tiger (Nov 18, 2011)

Well, it's not who I was thinking for Kongo, but if he can't beat Hunt - then I guess it didn't matter.

Hunt's got that power, but Kongo should be able to dance around him and look dominant. I wonder who Nelson's next fight will be.


----------



## Gaja (Nov 19, 2011)

Any stream links for the PPV yet?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 19, 2011)

My boy Lombard fighting on the Bellator card and UFC card is STACKED. Can't decide if I should watch Bellator, then UFC main event and then watch prelims after, or if I should watch the whole UFC card and then Bellator as a rerun.


----------



## Tiger (Nov 19, 2011)

Gaja said:


> Any stream links for the PPV yet?



Guess no one wants to be santa claus today, lol


*Spoiler*: __ 




Nice sub for Wiedman.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 19, 2011)

Spike Prelims:

Next meeting to be held Jan 2012

Main Card:

generic protonix online



If the main card one goes down I'll post up new ones.

EDIT: Fuck it, just go to the source and grab your own links if that one goes down: sop://broker.sopcast.com:3912/111686


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 19, 2011)

Hector Lombard fucks up Trevor Prangley and I'm feeling fine 

UFC prelims have been good, too. Torres beat Pace, that rules. So far a good night for MMA.


----------



## LouDAgreat (Nov 19, 2011)

My link keeps going out.


----------



## eHav (Nov 19, 2011)

generic protonix online seems to be working ok for me


----------



## Tiger (Nov 19, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 



lol 30-25 wow


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 19, 2011)

I sincerely hope the UFC never comes to San Jose again. Those assholes are booing the best action. Judges and the referees they rounded up are retarded as well.


----------



## eHav (Nov 19, 2011)

yeah i noticed the booing of bonnars ground game and kapman's clinch agaisnt the cage.. oh well


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 19, 2011)

I'm amazed everyone is saying Wanderlei is getting KO'd in this fight. I think he's going to pull this off... I thought the fanboys would all be agreeing, meh.


----------



## eHav (Nov 19, 2011)

Wanderlei


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 19, 2011)

I'm like the only MMA fan in the world that isn't surprised right now. Le was almost the perfect opponent for Wanderlei.


----------



## Early (Nov 19, 2011)

That was vintage Wanderlei. He can still fight in the UFC, not going crazy for his future prospects mind you. But respect Axe murderer. That'll take a lot of pride people back I imagine.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 19, 2011)

Now for my next prediction that Shogun is going to get jacked to come true


----------



## eHav (Nov 19, 2011)

bad start shogun bad start -.-

where is that machida's shogun


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 19, 2011)

Man, I'm surprised Hendo didn't finish him yet. Didn't think it'd make it to the championship rounds.


----------



## Early (Nov 19, 2011)

This is pretty dissapointing on Shogun's part. I though Hendo would win, but now it looks like Bones might have ended Shoguns prime, two rounds tho


----------



## eHav (Nov 19, 2011)

dont hate on shogun man! fight is good, tho shogun is a mess and took huge shots. hendo seems more tired, shogun seems sloppy due to his scrambled head



SHOGUN'S GOT THIS!!!!!!11 GO GO SHOGUN


----------



## Early (Nov 19, 2011)

Jinx worked, now its a fight. Hendo saved his ass, he was mounted and looked about done


----------



## eHav (Nov 19, 2011)

shogun ended the fight clearly better, but the early rounds go to hendo... maybe if the last ound is a 10-8...

looking back i'd call it a draw


biased decision. .|. hendo didnt do that much


----------



## Early (Nov 19, 2011)

Great fight. If Shogun had a little more in in him he could have finished Hendo. I think Hendo wins though if I had to guess. First 3 were his.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 19, 2011)

Man, Hendo was too old in the end. Couldn't finish Shogun.


----------



## Early (Nov 19, 2011)

Hendo wins.

Wonder whats next for both guys


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 19, 2011)

Meh, feed Hendo to Rashad? I dunno about Shogun.


----------



## LouDAgreat (Nov 19, 2011)

Henderson vs Shogun was AMAZING.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 19, 2011)

eHav said:


> shogun ended the fight clearly better, but the early rounds go to hendo... ma*ybe if the last ound is a 10-8...*
> looking back i'd call it a draw
> 
> 
> biased decision. .|. hendo didnt do that much



AHAHAHAHA maybe.  That was a clear 10-8 round.

Honestly, i think a draw would be more appropriate. I you c0ould give this fight any of those 3 outcomes. 

If I recall correctly, 1st: 10-10, 2nd 10-9 hendo, 3rd 10-8 or 10-9 hendo, 4th 10-9 Shogun, 5th 10-8 Shogun. First could also be 10-9 Hendo. As you can see pretty ambigoius.

Also: Thank God that I stayed awake for this.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 19, 2011)

Post fight press conference might be good for some laughs:


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 19, 2011)

Honestly though, should've been a draw. I don't think any of those guys deserves to be a loser. 

Also, Sherdog being it's slilly little ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) self with acting as if there is a clear winner in this fight. Hint: there isn't.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 19, 2011)

Man, I have never gotten so emotional during an MMA fight or any sports-related event ever. Friends were looking at me weird, lol. This is why these 2 are 2 of my 5 favourites ever. Man, just man. If you missed that fight, you missed one of the greatest fight of all-time, and easily my favourite fight ever.

I love Shogun so much. No one has taken punishment like that from Hendo and went on to take him to decision and 10-8 in the final round. I liked the result. I would have hated for that to be a draw, because I do not want a rematch. 

PRIDE can officially RIP. This fight lived up to all my expectations and more. To the people saying Shogun would get knocked out or Hendo would get TKO'd... Well I don't need to say anything. I knew it would go to decision, and man. I'm speechless.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 19, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Man, I have never gotten so emotional during an MMA fight or any sports-related event ever. Friends were looking at me weird, lol. This is why these 2 are 2 of my 5 favourites ever. Man, just man. If you missed that fight, you missed one of the greatest fight of all-time, and easily my favourite fight ever.
> 
> I love Shogun so much. No one has taken punishment like that from Hendo and went on to take him to decision and 10-8 in the final round. I liked the result. *I would have hated for that to be a draw*, because I do not want a rematch.
> 
> PRIDE can officially RIP. This fight lived up to all my expectations and more. To the people saying Shogun would get knocked out or Hendo would get TKO'd... Well I don't need to say anything. I knew it would go to decision, and man. I'm speechless.



yeah it would be better that one of these two walks away as the loser. 

But yeah, best fight of all time IMO. 

Also, did you guys find it apalling that the striker got outstruck and the wrest?er got outwrestled?


----------



## Havoc (Nov 19, 2011)

Didn't Rampage take big shots from Hendo, I can't really remember.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 19, 2011)

They're both winners for me, always. 

Couldn't have picked better timing for putting non-title main events as 5 rounds.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 20, 2011)

Guess whose opinion is backed up by statistical data. 

Honestly, considering that Dana agrees with me I think he might give these guys an instant rematch. People forget that Shoguns defensive striking ain't nearly as good as his offensive. Hendo would probably not land shit on Jones. Rashad should get the next shot.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Nov 20, 2011)

Awesome fight between Hendo and Shogun. 

Pride never die.


----------



## Shozan (Nov 20, 2011)

Best fight i'd ever seen hands down! Thanks Hendo and Shogun!


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 20, 2011)

Shogun-Rampage rematch in Japan might happen.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 20, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Shogun-Rampage rematch in Japan might happen.



Think Shogun got too much brain damage. 

Isn't it funny that henderson would likely get picked apart by Lyoto, but Shogun pretty much beat Lyoto twice.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 20, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Think Shogun got too much brain damage.
> 
> Isn't it funny that henderson would likely get picked apart by Lyoto, but Shogun pretty much beat Lyoto twice.



Yeah, I'm worried about his health honestly. Obviously he's not as athletic or explosive as he once was. Barely uses the clinch and knees anymore. I really hope he gets some rest and stays away for a while. 

True, but Hendo's style is pretty much perfect for Lyoto. 

Isn't that Fedor match tonight or did it already finish?


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 20, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Yeah, I'm worried about his health honestly. Obviously he's not as athletic or explosive as he once was. Barely uses the clinch and knees anymore. I really hope he gets some rest and stays away for a while.
> 
> True, but Hendo's style is pretty much perfect for Lyoto.
> 
> Isn't that Fedor match tonight or did it already finish?



Don't give a darn tbh. 

Hope Fedor puts on a decent performance. 

Oh yeah, if Kharitonov gets cut, he should fight him too, then retire.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 20, 2011)

Oh and THIS is why PRIDE >>>> UFC.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 20, 2011)

So Dana hinted Anderson headlining Sao Paulo in June. Then later on he hinted that TUF on FOX might be Cruz-Faber.

I wonder how they're going to do it. Sonnen-Silva or Cruz-Faber?


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 20, 2011)

cruz could make any fight boring. 

It has to be Sonnen-Silva.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 20, 2011)




----------



## Aokiji (Nov 20, 2011)

I wonder what fight he was watching.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 20, 2011)

Cung Le is actually lucky Vitor was injured.

If I was a big Lil Nog fan, I probably wouldn't be able to decide which fight I liked more.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 20, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> I'm going to predict that UFC 139 is going to be the best card of the year. I don't think any prelims this year is going to come close to this, and the main card is stacked as hell too. Faber-Bowles and Wand-Le could be main events on their own (UFC Live event, but whatever). Add a fight between 2 PRIDE favourites fans have wanted years ago, and I just can't see myself being disappointed.
> 
> Torres and Kampmann almost always bring it. McDonald, Story, and Kingsbury are all pretty consistent guys too. We got some good wrestling/striking for a match that will hopefully go 3 rounds in Bader-Brilz.
> 
> Brittney Palmer will probably make her return too.





UFC 129 prelims were probably better but still.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm about to cry.

So I was watching Kingsbury/Bonnar and I'm sleepy out of my mind. So I'm like "Oh, I'll go lay down until Bowles/Faber".

...

Guess who woke up after all of the fights were over?


----------



## Gaja (Nov 20, 2011)

That fight was fucking epic! 

Nuff said. But yeah, all around a great card, Wandy looked really good. God damn those knees looked vicious, and Cung threw some nice stuff. Looking forward to seeing him again, maybe against Bisping or someone of that level.

Bader got back on track so yay for that.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 20, 2011)

Just watched the fights. Wandy did good, and Cung Le also looked really good. Deff needs to stay in the UFC, if he builds up his cardio he will be a force to be reckoned with.

Torres/Pace was good, McDonald destroyed Soto, and Shogun/Hendo was crazy. I've yet to watch Kampmann/Story or Faber/Bowles, about to do that.


----------



## SAFFF (Nov 20, 2011)

Was this on FOX too like last weeks UFC event?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 20, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Oh and THIS is why PRIDE >>>> UFC.


Fight happened in the UFC. Your reasoning fails.


The Fireball Kid said:


> Just watched the fights. Wandy did good, and Cung Le also looked really good. Deff needs to stay in the UFC, if he builds up his cardio he will be a force to be reckoned with.
> 
> Torres/Pace was good, McDonald destroyed Soto, and Shogun/Hendo was crazy. I've yet to watch Kampmann/Story or Faber/Bowles, about to do that.



I dunno, Le is like 39 or something. He's too old to be getting any new cardio. It's part of the reason I was so confident he would lose to Wanderlei.



S.A.F said:


> Was this on FOX too like last weeks UFC event?


No. Prelims were on Facebook and Spike. Main event was PPV.













Fedor just crushed Jeff the Snowcan Monson. Big fucking surprise.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 20, 2011)

Just watched Emelianenko vs. Monson, Fedor looked really good. Utterly dominated the whole fight, he fought a very calculating fight. 

Kept it standing and picked apart Monson, knocking him down numerous times. Mixed up the kicks and punches, throwing mostly the left leg kick and straight rights. His TDD looked great. Great to see him pick up a win. I think if he fought like this against Werdum or Henderson, he could have won those fights.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 20, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Fight happened in the UFC. Your reasoning fails.



These two are PRIDE legends. No it doesn't.

You don't typically see non-PRIDE UFC fighters throw down like this.  

Although Bendo and Guida did well last week.



The Fireball Kid said:


> I'm about to cry.
> 
> So I was watching Kingsbury/Bonnar and I'm sleepy out of my mind. So I'm like "Oh, I'll go lay down until Bowles/Faber".
> 
> ...



 You poor jackass.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Nov 20, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> So Dana hinted Anderson headlining Sao Paulo in June. Then later on he hinted that TUF on FOX might be Cruz-Faber.
> 
> I wonder how they're going to do it. Sonnen-Silva or Cruz-Faber?



I really hope they have either Jones-Evans or Silva-Sonnen coaching the next TUF. Seems like a no brainer to me.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 20, 2011)

Anderson too butthurt, Jones too snooty for that. 

I am honestly not backing Hendo for the next title shot. He has next to nothing to offer to those either Lyoto or JBJ. Rashad should get the next shot or at the very least, Hendo fight Rashad.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 20, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Just watched Emelianenko vs. Monson, Fedor looked really good. Utterly dominated the whole fight, he fought a very calculating fight.
> 
> Kept it standing and picked apart Monson, knocking him down numerous times. Mixed up the kicks and punches, throwing mostly the left leg kick and straight rights. His TDD looked great. Great to see him pick up a win. I think if he fought like this against Werdum or Henderson, he could have won those fights.



Against Werdum it would have made a difference, Henderson would still have beaten him. He was able to stand and trade with Monson because Monson has terrible striking. He's not fast and he doesn't hit very hard. Frankly, his takedown attempts weren't explosive either.



Aokiji said:


> These two are PRIDE legends. No it doesn't.
> 
> You don't typically see non-PRIDE UFC fighters throw down like this.
> 
> Although Bendo and Guida did well last week.


So, PRIDE failed to make this fight happen, folded as an organization, and then the UFC signs both fighters, arranges the fight, pays all the bills along the way, and puts in all the promotional work to hype the fight.

Good work, PRIDE


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 20, 2011)

Machida vs. Jones will be interesting. Machida's style is probably the most unorthodox, next to JBJ's, in the LHW div. Maybe even the entire UFC, with a few exceptions. PLUS, he's also got some (somewhat) solid wrestling and BJJ. With that said, idk how this fight is gonna play out. From what I can imagine, it's gonna be JBJ chasing Machida for 5 rounds.



			
				Gallic Rush said:
			
		

> Against Werdum it would have made a difference, Henderson would still have beaten him. He was able to stand and trade with Monson because Monson has terrible striking. He's not fast and he doesn't hit very hard. Frankly, his takedown attempts weren't explosive either.



He rocked Hendo. If Fedor hadn't sloppily rushed in and allow Hendo to reverse him, he could've possibly gotten a good ground position or at least racked up points. It's not like Fedor's chin has diminished, he got knocked out once (and even then, he was still somewhat aware of what was going on). His only other losses were doctor stoppages and a sub. Hendo is amazing, but Fedor's judo/sambo allows him to really counter a lot of wrestlers and ground fights. He's good at keeping it standing. Too bad his striking was crap in the fight with Hendo, he actually looked really good against Monson, it's probably the first time I've seen him look like he's actually gotten better/learned from mistakes.

Let's hope he gets back on track, I think he has some fight left in him.


----------



## ??PR?ŞŞ?? (Nov 20, 2011)

Uploaded by Bellator themselves.

[YOUTUBE]HziG9DBfJf0[/YOUTUBE]


Watch. Now.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 20, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Against Werdum it would have made a difference, Henderson would still have beaten him. He was able to stand and trade with Monson because Monson has terrible striking. He's not fast and he doesn't hit very hard. Frankly, his takedown attempts weren't explosive either.
> 
> 
> So, PRIDE failed to make this fight happen, folded as an organization, and then the UFC signs both fighters, arranges the fight, pays all the bills along the way, and puts in all the promotional work to hype the fight.
> ...



God, aren't you a crappy poster. 

And no, Hendo wouldn't have beaten Fedor at least there is no evidence to make that claim. the only guy who made me feel that he would've fucked up Fedor anyway is Bigfoot, who got destroyed by Cormier. Weird.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 20, 2011)

??PR?ŞŞ?? said:


> Uploaded by Bellator themselves.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]HziG9DBfJf0[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> ...



Michael Chandler rules, so much potential. Such a good night for MMA. Bellator card was awesome, UFC card was _insanely_ awesome, fuck yeah.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 20, 2011)

WANDERLEI IS BACK!!! I really thought Le would win. Bader is back on track so that's good too. And Hendo won too. This was a good PPV


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 20, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> God, aren't you a crappy poster.
> 
> And no, Hendo wouldn't have beaten Fedor at least there is no evidence to make that claim. the only guy who made me feel that he would've fucked up Fedor anyway is Bigfoot, who got destroyed by Cormier. Weird.


No evidence except for Hendo beating Fedor in the first place.

It's like I'm the only person who remembers when a legend gets their ass kicked. I notice the same thing whenever Shogun comes up.


----------



## Xerces (Nov 20, 2011)

Fedor won


----------



## Naruto Uzumaki (Nov 20, 2011)

greatest fight ever, i scored it as a draw hope we see a rematch while rashad waits on jones/machida match up, if jones wins he said he is going to take a break so we might as well have a rematch even dana scored it as a draw

that being said shogun isnt the same anymore his knees is done he no longer has his movement he is my 3rd fav fighter but thats the facts he is only chin and boxing now

fedor beat a can big deal and i always knee eddie was overated no top 10 wins=/ top 10 fighter just like hector i give bellator 2 years at most


----------



## Skylark (Nov 20, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Anderson too butthurt, Jones too snooty for that.
> 
> I am honestly not backing Hendo for the next title shot. He has next to nothing to offer to those either Lyoto or JBJ. Rashad should get the next shot or at the very least, Hendo fight Rashad.



On the basis of the first two rounds, I fully believe Dan Henderson is a threat to any man he faces. That said, he had better pray he finishes JJ early, because if it gets into the 4th and 5th rounds, Jon Jones will maul him.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 20, 2011)

Oh no, LOL U PRIDE HUGGERS DURR HURR.

Go back to Sherdog, troll. 

How does that even make sense. Didn't Werdum beat him too? 



Skylark said:


> On the basis of the first two rounds, I fully believe Dan Henderson is a threat to any man he faces. That said, he had better pray he finishes JJ early, because if it gets into the 4th and 5th rounds, Jon Jones will maul him.



He is no more a threat to JJ than rampage was. I would give Shogun a better chance to beat JJ than Henderson.

Oh and btw, Rampage and Henderson were from PRIDE too. Just saiyan.

EDIT: I don't see how people unanimously gave RD 1 to Henderson. Shogun DROPPED him FGS.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 20, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> No evidence except for Hendo beating Fedor in the first place.
> 
> It's like I'm the only person who remembers when a legend gets their ass kicked. I notice the same thing whenever Shogun comes up.





> Against Werdum it would have made a difference, Henderson would still have beaten him.



Why              ?


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 20, 2011)

Round 1 and 4 were closer than the other ones. 

Shogun wants a rematch.



> "I don't know how the judges scored the last round. It could have been or should have been a 10-8 round. But that doesn't take anything away from Dan Henderson. He is a legend and those are the type of fights that create a legacy," said Rua.
> 
> Rua is looking forward to seeing a replay of the fight.
> 
> ...



Some Brazilians on Twitter really hated the decision. Cigano and Maia are two of them, and some other Americans scored it a draw as well (so did Dana).


----------



## Bill_gates (Nov 20, 2011)

A lotta suspect decisions and even more suspect refs but overall a great night of fights...
WAR WAND!!!!


----------



## Skylark (Nov 20, 2011)

Meh, I really don't see the point in arguing. The result is the result. We were just treated to one of the greatest fights in MMA history, a fight that was razor thin, and a fight that could go differently a second time around. I felt it should have been a draw, but it doesn't lessen the fight for me and I'm certainly not going to gripe about it. Just enjoy it, lads. We're rarely privy to something that special.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 20, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Round 1 and 4 were closer than the other ones.
> 
> Shogun wants a rematch.
> 
> ...



RD 4 was clearly Shogun though. 

As I said, draw would've been cool.



Skylark said:


> Meh, I really don't see the point in arguing. The result is the result. We were just treated to one of the greatest fights in MMA history, a fight that was razor thin, and a fight that could go differently a second time around. I felt it should have been a draw, but it doesn't lessen the fight for me and I'm certainly not going to gripe about it. Just enjoy it, lads. We're rarely privy to something that special.



Kinda. Now if Lyoto TKOs Jones


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 20, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Why              ?



Werdum is obviously the most dangerous on the ground, but like a lot of BJJ practitioners his takedowns kind of suck ass. Fedor choosing to go to the ground made a difference in that fight.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 20, 2011)

Is anyone here rooting for Bones against Machida?


----------



## Gaja (Nov 20, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Is anyone here rooting for Bones against Machida?



I am. 

Gameplay-wise I think Jon is gonna leg kick him much like Shogun did but keep his distance and stay on the outside, and try to beat him that way. Although I do think that Jones has a solid wrestling advantage as well. As far as hands go, not sure. The only thing I don't wanna see is a double crane kick KO leaving both guys tooth less.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 20, 2011)

Athleticism, reach, and wrestling all go to Jones... which is some pretty rough shit to overcome. Both fighters tend to stay on the outside though and are hard to grab; so, the wrestling should be less of a factor. I think the stand up battle is going to be a chess match that bores a lot of fans.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 20, 2011)

Naruto Uzumaki said:


> greatest fight ever, i scored it as a draw hope we see a rematch while rashad waits on jones/machida match up, if jones wins he said he is going to take a break so we might as well have a rematch even dana scored it as a draw
> 
> that being said shogun isnt the same anymore his knees is done he no longer has his movement he is my 3rd fav fighter but thats the facts he is only chin and boxing now
> 
> fedor beat a can big deal and i always knee eddie was overated no top 10 wins=/ top 10 fighter just like hector i give bellator 2 years at most



Hector rules because he doesn't give a darn about anybody. And he beat up Jacob Volkmann.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 20, 2011)

Watched the fight again, still amazing.

Sadly reminded me though that those knee surgeries have made Shogun a fighter he will probably never be again. I'll always love him and he'll always be in my top 5, and he's a true legend for putting on a performance like that for surgeries that would have ended many careers, certainly for athletes out of MMA.

His feet and hip movement with barely any kicks/knees are not like they were against Liddell or Machida in the UFC. He hasn't looked good in his last 3 fights. I'm not trying to downplay Jones' or Hendo's wins, just making an observation.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 20, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Werdum is obviously the most dangerous on the ground, but like a lot of BJJ practitioners his takedowns kind of suck ass. Fedor choosing to go to the ground made a difference in that fight.



Fedor wildly following Hendo to the ground made a difference too. 

Also, lol Sonnen, Hendersons friend, says Shogun won.  And no, this is serious Chael.

As i said, you could give either guy W, L or D.

And also, don't expect JJ to stalk Machida like Shogun.  I would consider JJs legs a bigger target for kicks than Machida's.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 20, 2011)

Fedor following Hendo to the ground in that particular instance was obviously a bad idea in hindsight. But if you're going to finish Hendo you pretty much have to take it to the ground. Flash KOing the guy isn't going to happen. Letting him get back up and keep throwing bombs at your head is not a good strategy unless you're really hard to hit like Machida or Anderson. Fedor did what was pretty much his best shot which was trying to jump on Hendo when he had him hurt. Evidently Hendo still has enough of a chin to weather that kind of punishment.


----------



## Early (Nov 20, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Is anyone here rooting for Bones against Machida?



Unless The karate kid learned the crane kid, he is going to get dropped. Jones outmatches him.


----------



## Tiger (Nov 20, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Is anyone here rooting for Bones against Machida?



Aren't most?

I'd be shocked if Machida beats him. I'd love to see Jones beat all comers for the next five years though, so maybe that's just me. I've been a huge fan since the first fight I saw of his, when I turned to my brother and said "he's going to be champ soon, and he's the future of the division". Fanboy, maybe...but I don't see him losing soon.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 20, 2011)

Bones definitely has the tools to beat Machida, but if he tries to play with him at a distance he might just get his chin tested for the first time. Depending on how well he can take a shot it might be an upset victory for Machida.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 20, 2011)

Early said:


> Unless The karate kid learned the crane kid, he is going to get dropped. Jones outmatches him.





Law said:


> Aren't most?
> 
> I'd be shocked if Machida beats him. I'd love to see Jones beat all comers for the next five years though, so maybe that's just me. I've been a huge fan since the first fight I saw of his, when I turned to my brother and said "he's going to be champ soon, and he's the future of the division". Fanboy, maybe...but I don't see him losing soon.



By rooting for Jones against Machida, I meant who here wants to see Bones beat Machida.


----------



## ??PR?ŞŞ?? (Nov 20, 2011)

Alright, enough with the UFC and Fedor talk. 

This deserves to be talked about.


[YOUTUBE]HziG9DBfJf0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 20, 2011)

The only thing I pray for every fight is no referee wankery.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 20, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Fedor following Hendo to the ground in that particular instance was obviously a bad idea in hindsight. But if you're going to finish Hendo you pretty much have to take it to the ground. Flash KOing the guy isn't going to happen. Letting him get back up and keep throwing bombs at your head is not a good strategy unless you're really hard to hit like Machida or Anderson. Fedor did what was pretty much his best shot which was trying to jump on Hendo when he had him hurt. Evidently Hendo still has enough of a chin to weather that kind of punishment.



Shogun was 1 shot away from putting him out. And Fedor did the right thing but it was how he did it.

Also, people should slow down on JJ. I started to believe the hype after Rampage-Bones, but the wank he gets is ridiculous. Someday, his JDS will come, then people will talk about how he has weaknesses and they shoulda seen it coming.

You ALWAYS chill out with such predictions.

But yes he is like GSP before Serra. 

Hey GSP also has a massive reach advantage over people his height. I mean Rampage is 2 divisions higher than him, but he is still inferior to him in reach. He was also dynamic and exciting except he was less greco and more power doubles.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 20, 2011)

Shogun was 1 shot away from putting out Hendo? What does that have to do with the Fedor-Hendo fight?


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 21, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Shogun was 1 shot away from putting out Hendo? What does that have to do with the Fedor-Hendo fight?





> Flash KOing the guy isn't going to happen





.


----------



## Yakuza (Nov 21, 2011)

One of the best cards ever.

I think a draw was the fair result for Shogun but we all know if you leave it to the judges more often than not you will be disappointed.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 21, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> .



Not sure you're aware of what a flash KO is


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 21, 2011)

Fedor finally won a fight huh? 

Damn that shit was epic. Hendo is the man. 

I think Hendo will get the title shot over Rashad, just because it's Rashad. He needs to be screwed out of the title fight a couple more times just so he knows Dana loves him. 

Great card all around. Slightly unimpressed with Bonnar, but it happens I guess. He was desperate for a fight of the night/sub/ko and he had the most boring fight of the card. Kind of feel bad for the guy.

But not really.

I'll be honest: Wand is lucky Cung Le is 40 years old.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 21, 2011)

If Machida wins I hope Hendo faces him. Rematching Rashad would be comparatively less interesting I think.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 21, 2011)

You don't want another classic Rashad KO face?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 21, 2011)

Meh, I dislike seeing the same thing twice. 

I don't want to see Rashad face Machida again even though I think the fight will probably go down differently (Rashad will would probably use way more wrestling). The fighters don't get to fight in their prime for that long. I would like to see the most variety when they're at their best.


----------



## Matariki (Nov 21, 2011)

Fedor in talks with UFC again



> The terms are much different now due to the fact that he lost three in a row and is no longer as valuable as he once was, and Fedor's management knows this. As of right now, nothing has been signed, but negotiations are going smoothly.
> 
> The source states that if Fedor Emelianenko is to sign with the UFC, his first fight will be against former Heavyweight Champion, Cain Velasquez.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 21, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Meh, I dislike seeing the same thing twice.
> 
> I don't want to see Rashad face Machida again even though I think the fight will probably go down differently (Rashad will would probably use way more wrestling). The fighters don't get to fight in their prime for that long. I would like to see the most variety when they're at their best.


True, which is part of the reason I don't care to see Anderson fight Chael again.

I think he wins it again and does it more impressively. I want to see him fight someone more compelling--though that would mean a move to LHW since there aren't any other big threats at MW for him.


Seiko said:


> Fedor in talks with UFC again


Meh, couldn't care less about Fedor at this point.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 21, 2011)

Seiko said:


> Fedor in talks with UFC again



That seems like a bogus news item to me. It'll be interesting to see if it turns out to be true. Because most Fedor fans are probably not looking forward to seeing him fight competition that is way better than the guys that were already beating him.



CrazyMoronX said:


> True, which is part of the reason I don't care to see Anderson fight Chael again.
> 
> I think he wins it again and does it more impressively. I want to see him fight someone more compelling--though that would mean a move to LHW since there aren't any other big threats at MW for him.
> 
> Meh, couldn't care less about Fedor at this point.



Huh, hadn't thought about that, mostly because I figure Chael is going to take the belt this time. I guess in that sense I'm not interested in seeing the fight happen either, but it should happen because Chael is the people's champ.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 21, 2011)

Side note: UFC 142 in Brazil and UFC 144 in Japan are looking like stacked cards. 

141, Reem vs Lesnar has a ton of great match ups as well.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 21, 2011)

Once Anderson either moves up or retires, Chael can claim his belt. Either way he wins. 


Jones vs Machida is only, what? two weeks away?


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 21, 2011)

A little over 2 weeks, yeah. Can't wait. Going to be there live.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 21, 2011)

I don't know what I'm going to do. 

I went to a bar this weekend but they charged me a fucking cover.  So I have to find a new place to go now. Fuck paying a cover then buying shit on top of that. Bullshit.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 21, 2011)

That sucks. I stopped going to Hooters and all that stuff some years ago. Usually one of my friends will order the PPV, and a bunch of friends will just go over and hang out. Pretty cool, always fun.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 21, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> That seems like a bogus news item to me. It'll be interesting to see if it turns out to be true. Because most Fedor fans are probably not looking forward to seeing him *fight competition that is way better than the guys that were already beating him*.







CrazyMoronX said:


> True, which is part of the reason I don't care to see Anderson fight Chael again.
> 
> *I think he wins it again and does it more impressively. I want to see him fight someone more compelling*--though that would mean a move to LHW since there aren't any other big threats at MW for him.



Not sure if serious. Did you actually KNOW what happened that fight? Nothing that happened in that fight indicated that Silva would win barring a fluke ala Mir/Lesnar. Which is why it should happen again. 

I mean, it's like I walked into bizarroworld.



Gallic Rush said:


> If Machida wins I hope Hendo faces him. Rematching Rashad would be comparatively less interesting I think.



Rashad actually has the ability to take him down. What is Hendo gonna do? Likely, he'll get picked apart.


----------



## Ben Beckman (Nov 21, 2011)

If this ends up actually happening I gotta say that Wineland is becoming the bantamweight version of Akiyama. Guys already fought Faber and then Benavidez, now they want him to fight Johnson. Last time I checked that would be the #3, #2, and #6 ranked bantamweight fighters all in a row.

May not be as extreme as what's going on with Akiyama, but dang, maybe give the guy a can before throwing him into a fight with another top 10 fighter.

In other news: Next meeting to be held Jan 2012

I understand that Cung has been in a lot of movies, but 350K, shit. Thats more than Heno, Shogun, and Silva made. I understand that those 3 most definitely got a cut of the pay-per-view, but still...


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 21, 2011)

Man, I just remembered these videos going through some old Cro Cop stuff on YouTube. Pretty sure they're on some PRIDE DVDs I have (the backstage stuff, not the actual mix video).

Ludovico Einaudi + PRIDE = 

Shogun


----------



## Matariki (Nov 22, 2011)

UFC on FOX 2: Munoz vs Sonnen



> According to sources close to the fighters, Mark Munoz and Chael Sonnen will meet in a number one middleweight contender bout early next year.  It looks to be the headliner of UFC on FOX 2 with rumors that Munoz’s teammate, Jake Ellenberger will also be featured against Diego Sanchez.  Another rumored bout is Melvin Guillard vs Jim Miller for the event taking place on January 28th at the United Center in Chicago.
> 
> Sonnen has been on record saying he will stay active rather than wait for Anderson Silva to be ready to defend his title again.  Munoz has a huge opportunity to fight his way into the number one contender slot he has stated he is gunning for.  The winner will likely face Silva around June, as Dana White has stated that is the timetable for the undisputed champ’s return to action.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 22, 2011)

Chael's MMA wrestling is on another level compared to Munoz. I know Munoz has improved since his Okami match-up, but he didn't really look good back then. I see this fight going similar to Sonnen-Okami. 

FOX will be a big stage for Sonnen to call out Silva though. 

I don't see Diego beating Ellenberger, sadly. He has a lot of heart, but this might be the first fight he gets knocked out in.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 22, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> That sucks. I stopped going to Hooters and all that stuff some years ago. Usually one of my friends will order the PPV, and a bunch of friends will just go over and hang out. Pretty cool, always fun.


I don't have any friends though. 

I have to either go to a bar or drive to my dad's house (which is 35 miles away) and order the PPV for full price.

I have no Internet anymore. 



Aokiji said:


> Not sure if serious. Did you actually KNOW what happened that fight? Nothing that happened in that fight indicated that Silva would win barring a fluke ala Mir/Lesnar. Which is why it should happen again.
> 
> I mean, it's like I walked into bizarroworld.
> 
> ...


You misunderstand what I am trying to say.

I mean that I am confident that Silva will demolish him in the second fight--I don't care to see it. I want to see him fight someone much more exciting. Like Jon Jones, Shogun, Machida, etc. I know none of those fights are likely to happen, but that is what I am saying.


Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Man, I just remembered these videos going through some old Cro Cop stuff on YouTube. Pretty sure they're on some PRIDE DVDs I have (the backstage stuff, not the actual mix video).
> 
> Ludovico Einaudi + PRIDE =
> 
> Shogun


----------



## TheGreatOne (Nov 22, 2011)

Munoz vs Sonnen? That is going to be a kickass match. I'm sorry, but I highly doubt that Munoz will win though. Chael is going to pull out all the stops to get another shot at Silva.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 22, 2011)

Munoz is going to get decisioned so fucking hard.


----------



## Matariki (Nov 22, 2011)

Anyone follow women's MMA?

Rousey


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 22, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Munoz is going to get decisioned so fucking hard.



Tell that to Stann. 



CrazyMoronX said:


> I mean that I am confident that Silva will demolish him in the second fight--I don't care to see it. I want to see him fight someone much more exciting. Like Jon Jones, Shogun, Machida, etc. I know none of those fights are likely to happen, but that is what I am saying.



Wonder where that confidence comes from. 

I think Anderson vs Machida would be boring. Jones would GNP. Shogun would be the only exciting fight.

Oh and if Sonnen beats him, I wonder if there's gonna be an instant rematch.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 22, 2011)

Seiko said:


> Anyone follow women's MMA?
> 
> Rousey


No, but I would wank off to her.


Aokiji said:


> Tell that to Stann.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stann doesn't have the ground game of Munoz though.

Machida/Anderson would be pretty epic, though it has potential for a lot of elusive feeling out and an overall boring fight. It'd be exciting though if nothing else for the buildup and potential.

Jones beating Anderson and finishing = exciting.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 23, 2011)

I'd love to see Machida-Silva. Their sparring videos alone are pretty fun to watch.

I would have liked to have seen Shogun-Silva a few years ago. I think it would still be exciting today, but I don't think Shogun would win based off his last 3 performances.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 23, 2011)

Maybe they can put together Shogun/Silva for Japan. 


Then Shogun can use his special vitamins.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 24, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> No, but I would wank off to her.
> 
> Stann doesn't have the ground game of Munoz though.
> 
> ...



I mean, i would feel that there is no suspense whatsoever between Jones and Silva. 



Lucifer Morningstar said:


> I'd love to see Machida-Silva. Their sparring videos alone are pretty fun to watch.
> 
> I would have liked to have seen Shogun-Silva a few years ago. I think it would still be exciting today, but I don't think Shogun would win based off his last 3 performances.



I dunno, I feel Anderson would tag him pretty often and he has the chin to take Shoguns bombs. I think that would be a barnburner.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Nov 24, 2011)

Just rewatched Chandler/Alvarez, I personally think it was better than Hendo/Shogun.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 26, 2011)

btw, what are the opinions in this thread on Barnett vs Nogueira I? Just rewatched that one and thought Josh won.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 28, 2011)

Barnett did win the first fight... I didn't have a problem with the decision. Both of their fights were great.

This UFC Japan card is stacked.

*Main card*

Frankie Edgar vs. Ben Henderson
Quinton Jackson vs. Ryan Bader
Yoshihiro Akiyama vs. Jake Shields
Cheick Kongo vs. Mark Hunt
Anthony Pettis vs. Joe Lauzon

*Preliminaries*

Hatsu Hioki vs. Bart Palaszewski
Takeya Mizugaki vs. Chris Cariaso
Steve Cantwell vs. Riki Fukuda
Yushin Okami vs. Tim Boetsch
Takanori Gomi vs. George Sotiropoulos
Norifumi Yamamoto vs. Vaughan Lee
Tiequan Zhang vs. Leonard Garcia


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 28, 2011)

Why Sherdog is a cesspool in a nutshell.

Chael making a funny tweet and what do shertards (or rather Anderson huggers) think of? DURR HURR TRIANGLE, I'M A STUPID BUTTHURT MONKEY THAT LACKS BASIC COGNITIVE ABILITIES.

Also, then there are those that consider any non-positive statement towards ANY singular female "misogynism".


----------



## pussyking (Nov 28, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Barnett did win the first fight... I didn't have a problem with the decision. Both of their fights were great.
> 
> This UFC Japan card is stacked.
> 
> ...



DAMN! why the fuck does UFC never have cards like this?!?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 28, 2011)

Just found out Chris Leben has been suspended for a year from the UFC for failing a drug test. Tested positive for 2 banned pain killers.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 29, 2011)

Not really surprised. 

How many title defences do you folks think JDS will have (if any)? I think the most for the UFC HW division was 2.


----------



## Teach (Nov 29, 2011)

Good to see Jake moving up to 185.

Sonnen is going to smash Munoz

Anderson huggers are the worst. They are still his fans even when Anderson tried to desperately duck Sonnen.


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 29, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Not really surprised.
> 
> How many title defences do you folks think JDS will have (if any)? I think the most for the UFC HW division was 2.



If Overeem gets by Lesnar, then probably none. 



Teach said:


> Good to see Jake moving up to 185.
> 
> Sonnen is going to smash Munoz
> 
> Anderson huggers are the worst. They are still his fans even when Anderson tried to desperately duck Sonnen.



In less they recently changed it, Jake Shields is going to fight Akiyama at 170.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 29, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> If Overeem gets by Lesnar, then probably none.



I'm kinda leaning the opposite way. If Reem beats Lesnar then JDS has a good chance at defending his title. I think JDS's striking for MMA is much more effective. Lesnar on the other hand presents a serious problem for both Reem and JDS as a strong, explosive wrestler.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 29, 2011)

Teach said:


> Anderson huggers are the worst. They are still his fans even when Anderson tried to desperately duck Sonnen.







Gallic Rush said:


> I'm kinda leaning the opposite way. If Reem beats Lesnar then JDS has a good chance at defending his title. I think JDS's striking for MMA is much more effective. Lesnar on the other hand presents a serious problem for both Reem and JDS as a strong, explosive wrestler.



I doubt that Lesnar is going to wrestlefuck him, honestly, dat TDD is beastly. 

Oh and I agree, Overeem's striking is vastly overrated, but he might've just had a poor camp before the Werdum fight and I get the feeling that he is a rythm fighter: if he's feeling it, he's beastly, but if he's off, he's like a deer in the headlights.

Or he is an overrated bum. 

If I was JDS, I would want Lesnar to win, since I don't believe that he could consistently hold him down. Overeem might be a darkhorse. (lol, no pun intended )


----------



## Gallic Rush (Nov 29, 2011)

What part of the horse is the dark meat again? 

Anyways, JDS will eventually face both fighters I think... Despite what Dana has been saying, the HW division is not THAT deep. JDS doesn't have that many worthy opponents left to fight other than some rematches.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 29, 2011)

Btw, that Rousey chick is fucking scary. 

I mean seriously, Lauzon would be proud of such finishing. Trip, mount, armbar, arm snapped, go home.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 29, 2011)

Sadly, Jake will still be at 170 for his next fight. I think he gets a late submission on Akiyama.

　　报道称

Damn, Diego is probably going to get TKO'd.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 30, 2011)

Good God, how stupid can people fucking be?  there are people that claim that the last round of Shogun/Hendo was a close round. 

Apparently, your opponent needs to be in a coma by the time the round end in order to get a 10-8 round.

Also, apparently, Shogun having his way with Hendo deserves the same score as the round where he landed some leg kicks and a few punches against machida.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 30, 2011)

Shogun's record should be 21-4-1. 

Rashad Evans vs Phil Davis is the main event for UFC on FOX 2.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 1, 2011)

Rashad vs Phil Davis as the main event? 

That fight has boring written all over it.


----------



## Krauser-tan (Dec 1, 2011)

I really like Machida but i don't see him winning against Jones nor having good chances against him  Hopefully i'm wrong.


Sonnen vs Silva 2 would be good... this time, no injuries, no excuses, and hopefully, sonnnen dropped on the floor at the end of the fight.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 1, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Rashad vs Phil Davis as the main event?
> 
> That fight has boring written all over it.



Oh come on, wait for the fight to happen before you shit on it.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 1, 2011)

I guess Rashad might pull off a Tito. He is one of my favorite fighters, but I'm not denying his propensity for putting on snoozefests.

As for Phil Davis...well, I'm not a fan. I guess I should give it a chance though.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 1, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I guess Rashad might pull off a Tito. He is one of my favorite fighters, but I'm not denying his propensity for putting on snoozefests.
> 
> As for Phil Davis...well, I'm not a fan. I guess I should give it a chance though.



Not sure what you mean by that. The Thiago and the Rampage fights were probably not what most fans have in mind when they think about an exciting fight, but all of his other fights at LHW have been pretty exciting in my opinion. Quite a few knockouts and of course there was the loss he suffered to Machida. Although I'm not sure losing in an exciting fashion counts as a plus on your resume. 

Phil Davis is pretty fun to watch on the ground, although his striking is admittedly pretty flat at the moment.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 1, 2011)

It's going to be a good fight, Rashad Evans will likely knock Davis out also.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 1, 2011)

Krauser Joestar said:


> I really like Machida but i don't see him winning against Jones nor having good chances against him  Hopefully i'm wrong.
> 
> 
> *Sonnen vs Silva 2 would be good... this time, no injuries, no excuses, and hopefully, sonnnen dropped on the floor at the end of the fight*.





Seriously though, if Anderson loses, he will probably retire out of shame. I mean losing to "Brazil hater" Sonnen in front of Brazilians....

Don't know much about Davis, but it doesn't seem that interesting to put those dudes against each other.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 1, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Not sure what you mean by that. The Thiago and the Rampage fights were probably not what most fans have in mind when they think about an exciting fight, but all of his other fights at LHW have been pretty exciting in my opinion. Quite a few knockouts and of course there was the loss he suffered to Machida. Although I'm not sure losing in an exciting fashion counts as a plus on your resume.
> 
> Phil Davis is pretty fun to watch on the ground, although his striking is admittedly pretty flat at the moment.


Well Rashad has come a long ways since TUF. I think that's where he gained his reputation for being boring, never finishing anyone until Sean Salmon.

He has been looking pretty lately though.

As for Phil Davis...not impressed.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 2, 2011)

After half a year or so of intensive MMA watching i have come to the conclusion that GSP haters are the biggest fucktards in all of sports, no exaggaration.

When a guy who keeps beating everyone in front of him is getting the level of disrespect he gets you know something is wrong.

"All he does is laying on top of natural lightweights." (actual post on sherdog)

Yeah he lays on them so hard, that his corner stopped the fight in order to prevent him going into a coma.  Also notice how him fighting BJ means "he's fighting lightweights" (Shields beat hendo at MW, just saying) 

What was the definition of LNP btw? Doesn't going for submissions and raping the guard of any fighter you've seen =/= LNP?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 2, 2011)

Well GSP is a tiny WW and should cut to FW anyway. The point is moot.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 2, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> After half a year or so of intensive MMA watching i have come to the conclusion that GSP haters are the biggest fucktards in all of sports, no exaggaration.
> 
> When a guy who keeps beating everyone in front of him is getting the level of disrespect he gets you know something is wrong.
> 
> ...



Pretty bad analogy between Shields and Penn. Penn didn't even try to become a WW, Jake Shields actually filled out.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 2, 2011)

Speaking of BJ Penn at WW, I just at a burrito.


----------



## Krauser-tan (Dec 3, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Seriously though, if Anderson loses, he will probably retire out of shame. I mean losing to "Brazil hater" Sonnen in front of Brazilians....
> 
> Don't know much about Davis, but it doesn't seem that interesting to put those dudes against each other.



Where am i mad? Can't i dislike Sonnen for the single fact that he's a dick? Not that Anderson isn't one sometimes, but sonnen is just terrible, i wish Silva would kick his teeth through, kinda like Machina did in his last fight, karate kid style...


I don't know how injured or not Silva was, but Sonnen will pay for what he's saying sooner or later...


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 3, 2011)

Let's go, Brimage.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 3, 2011)

what time does the main card air?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 3, 2011)

Starting right now I think.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 3, 2011)

What a finish! Holy crap.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 3, 2011)

Some pretty good fights tonight. Lighter weight classes just got a boost.


----------



## martryn (Dec 3, 2011)

Like that result.  I must have been the only American supporting Bisping.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 3, 2011)

Meh, hardly surprising. I think a lot of people don't realize how much better the athleticism is in UFC fighters compared to non-UFC fighters.


----------



## martryn (Dec 3, 2011)

> Meh, hardly surprising. I think a lot of people don't realize how much better the athleticism is in UFC fighters compared to non-UFC fighters.



I told that to my wife when we found out who the coaches were this season.  She didn't believe me.  Well...

Like Miller, though.  He seemed like a cool guy.  But I do hope this moves Bisping to top contendership or whatever.  Would love to see him and Okami go at it, but I'm guessing we'll see Bisping vs. Munoz next.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 4, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Meh, hardly surprising. I think a lot of people don't realize how much better the athleticism is in UFC fighters compared to non-UFC fighters.



Really not that much of a difference. There aren't many great athletes in MMA in general.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 4, 2011)

Bisping will not get passed Sonnen, Munoz, or Silva (like he'll ever get a title shot).

I don't care how many victories Bisping gets, his biggest career highlight is being knocked out by Hendo. I hope he does get Silva so I can see his face get rearranged.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 4, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Bisping will not get passed Sonnen, Munoz, or Silva (like he'll ever get a title shot).
> 
> I don't care how many victories Bisping gets, his biggest career highlight is being knocked out by Hendo. I hope he does get Silva so I can see his face get rearranged.



Stop bleeding out of your ass.




Oh and this is probably one of the smartest posts I have seen on Sherdog. 

My opinion on UFC 140 in a nutshell.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 4, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Pretty bad analogy between Shields and Penn. Penn didn't even try to become a WW, Jake Shields actually filled out.



Well, Penn is like the only one who fits that bill and suddenly "GSp fights natural lightweights".  



Krauser Joestar said:


> Where am i mad? Can't i dislike Sonnen for the single fact that he's a dick? Not that Anderson isn't one sometimes, but sonnen is just terrible, i wish Silva would kick his teeth through, kinda like Machina did in his last fight, karate kid style...
> 
> 
> I don't know how injured or not Silva was, but Sonnen will pay for what he's saying sooner or later...



Somebody needs a sense of humor.  And honestly, I wonder why people act as if Sonnen is a huge disrespectful dick, he fucks around at times but even gives credit to opponents he talks shit about, even when in troll mode. 

"If Chael Sonnen can't take Silva to the ground, Chael Sonnen gets his ass kicked." "When you take Anderson down, the party's not over."(followed by the "BB under Nogs is like free toy in happy meal" line - people ignoring him giving props to Anderson and focusing on his shittalking to the Nogs)

People should lighten up. I mean, at least he didn't shout racial expletives to his opponents while dancing like a certain MW champion. THAt is worse, but of course he is "humble". 

But of course there ain't nothing wrong with wanting to see Sonnen getting son'd.  I'll be anticipating Anderson getting embarrassed once more, this time in front of his homecrowd.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 4, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Really not that much of a difference. There aren't many great athletes in MMA in general.



Relative to other sports the athleticism isn't that great, but relative to MMA itself the best athletes are in the UFC.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 4, 2011)

Seems like Dana didn't watch the Gaudinot-Bedford fight.

A couple good matches there. I had Bisping by UD, didn't expect Mayhem to gas as bad as he did. I think Bisping's boxing helped with that, but not as much as he thinks. 

Hyped for next week. UFC at the ACC!


----------



## narutored23 (Dec 4, 2011)

what does anybody here think about machida vs jon jones fight???

Anybody can get at me


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 4, 2011)

Was disappointing to see Mayhem actually tagging Bisping with those sloppy, SLOPPY punches.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 4, 2011)

By the way, what did you guys think about the judging on Ferguson-Edwards?

Funny interview with Ariel, Brimage, and Rampage:


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 4, 2011)

It was bad, but not terrible. Round 3 was Edwards' all the way, but the first two really depend. Honestly though, it's already very clear that the judging in MMA needs a lot of work.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 4, 2011)

When the promoter of the biggest MMA promotion says Miller didn't win round 1 despite the fact that he mounted Bisping for 2 minutes, yeah you know it needs work.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 4, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Stop bleeding out of your ass.



Suck me.

Hope Big Nog beats Mir. I hate Mir.


----------



## Teach (Dec 4, 2011)

Good showing by Bisping. You can hate him all you want, but he's got some skill. Mayhem was a disappointment.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 5, 2011)

narutored23 said:


> what does anybody here think about machida vs jon jones fight???
> 
> Anybody can get at me



I'm pumped.

It's going to be epic. Machida is going to beat that black ass.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 5, 2011)

I would be amazed if Mir-Nog II is any different from Mir-Nog I.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 5, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> I would be amazed if Mir-Nog II is any different from Mir-Nog I.



Nog doesn't have staph. He might actually try to take him down instead of getting schooled on his feet, this time, etc...

Let's not act like Mir is JDS.

Oh and whom should Bisping fight next? With this guy, it's almost as if people hate him for TRYING to advance in his division.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 5, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Nog doesn't have staph. He might actually try to take him down instead of getting schooled on his feet, this time, etc...
> 
> Let's not act like Mir is JDS.
> 
> Oh and whom should Bisping fight next? With this guy, it's almost as if people hate him for TRYING to advance in his division.



I don't think he's going to be able to take Mir down. Which just means he's going to get picked apart on the feet again.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 5, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> I would be amazed if Mir-Nog II is any different from Mir-Nog I.


I wouldn't be amazed if Mir couldn't knock Nog out in the first round.

What I would be amazed at is Nog submitting Frank Mir. That's never going happen. I could see Nog winning via decision or TKO, but it's highly unlikely.


Aokiji said:


> Nog doesn't have staph. He might actually try to take him down instead of getting schooled on his feet, this time, etc...
> 
> Let's not act like Mir is JDS.
> 
> Oh and whom should Bisping fight next? With this guy, it's almost as if people hate him for TRYING to advance in his division.


He should Wanderlei again.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 5, 2011)

If it hit the ground, Nogueria could submit Mir.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 5, 2011)

You done lost your mind.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 5, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> If it hit the ground, Nogueria could submit Mir.



If.


Could.



Think that works out to like a 0.25% chance of that actually happening


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 5, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> You done lost your mind.



Nogueria is way better on the ground than Frank is.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 5, 2011)

Frank Mir is bigger and has a blackbelt in BJJ and has never been submitted. What makes you think Nog could submit him?


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 6, 2011)

Picks for UFC 140...  still undecided on a few...



> *Jon Jones* (No. 3 PFP, No. 1 LHW) > Lyoto Machida(No. 5 LHW)
> 
> *Frank Mir* (No. 7 HW) > Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (No. 9 HW)
> *Tito Ortiz* > Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
> ...





CrazyMoronX said:


> Frank Mir is bigger and has a blackbelt in BJJ and has never been submitted. What makes you think Nog could submit him?



Aye.  Frank Mir is looking massively strong these days.  Don't think he'll get taken down for Nog to have the opportunity to sub.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 6, 2011)

Everyone has never been submitted until they get submitted.

Also, wasn't Mir's wrestling suspect?


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 6, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Everyone has never been submitted until they get submitted.
> 
> Also, wasn't Mir's wrestling suspect?



Mir's wrestling _was_ suspect back when he focused entirely on technique and ignored strength and conditioning.

That was when Frank looked like this:



After being muscled around and overpowered by Brock....  Frank woke up and realized he needed to focus on developing his athleticism more.

That was when Frank started to look like this:



Franks a lot bigger and stronger than he was, & he's worked on developing his base & wrestling - it'll be much harder to get him to the ground, now.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 6, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Everyone has never been submitted until they get submitted.
> 
> Also, wasn't Mir's wrestling suspect?



Suspect against monsters like Lesnar. Nog is not nearly that good at ragdolling heavyweights.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 6, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Suspect against monsters like Lesnar. Nog is not nearly that good at ragdolling heavyweights.



That's dumb.  

Who isn't suspect to being taken down by Brock?

Your kung fu is weak!


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 6, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> That's dumb.
> 
> Who isn't suspect to being taken down by Brock?
> 
> Your kung fu is weak!



Cain, Randy.....

They did a pretty good job.

But yeah, the Mir of then wasn't gonna stop him. Still suprised that he couldn't do shit from halfguard though.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 6, 2011)

Hopefully Mir and Nog will hit the mat. I wish that Diaz and BJ had more action on the ground, too.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 6, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Hopefully Mir and Nog will hit the mat. I wish that Diaz and BJ had more action on the ground, too.



Nog is inhuman on the ground. he might actually pull it off. 

Don't think Mir is stupid enough to allow that though. 

But Nick might actually give GSP trouble on the ground, if PENN days "You can't do nothin on top of him" 

Hey, GSP can still wall n stall, RITE?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 6, 2011)

Nog is bread and butter BJJ. 


Diaz, as much as I'd love to see him win, has no chance against GSP unless GSP decides to stand with him--which, in some crazy universe where black is white, and women are intelligent and reasonable, could happen.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 6, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Cain, Randy.....
> 
> They did a pretty good job.
> 
> But yeah, the Mir of then wasn't gonna stop him. Still suprised that he couldn't do shit from halfguard though.



AFAIK, Brock's been working towards being comfortable striking and being a complete fighter as opposed to someone who spams takedowns and relies exclusively on wrestling.

I don't think Brock really tried to take down Couture, Carwin, Heath Herring or Velasquez.  He got Velasquez down and didn't really try to control him on the ground or GnP.  He just held on to Velasquez's leg and allowed him to get back up.

If Brock gets serious about taking people down, I think they will get taken down and won't be getting back up.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 6, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> That's dumb.
> 
> Who isn't suspect to being taken down by Brock?
> 
> Your kung fu is weak!



If you listen closely, you can hear the sound of my point whistling over your head.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 6, 2011)

Brock beats Cain in a rematch.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 6, 2011)

Cheering for Big Nog and Lyoto this weekend, but I don't think either is going to win.

Tito calling himself the People's Champ.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 6, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Brock beats Cain in a rematch.



He'll finally be able to drink that Corona that's been sitting in his fridge. Unfortunately, I think the burrito must be rancid by now.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 6, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Frank Mir is bigger and has a blackbelt in BJJ and has never been submitted. What makes you think Nog could submit him?



- Frank is big, but he is not very strong.

- I don't think him being a blackbelt in BJJ means he won't get utterly tooled on the ground by Nogueria. Nogueria has outgrappled guys like Werdum and Barnett, what has Frank Mir done? Tap out Tank Abott and Brock Lesnar? Frank Mir is horrible off his back, and has always been. He got decimated by Brock Lesnar which is why people think Brock is amazing on the ground when hes not, he got ground and pounded by Brandon Vera and some can I never even heard of. Frank has never done anything in Jiu Jitsu to make me think he could hang with the GOAT :ho.

- A lot of people have never been submitted. Who has Frank ever fought on the ground that could have tapped him out? Plus, he got pwned by Brock badly, shit is just as bad as getting tapped out the way he was half nelsoned into oblivion. He's been ground and pounded a jillion times, just because he has not been submitted does not mean he cannot get tooled on the floor.




> AFAIK, Brock's been working towards being comfortable striking and being a complete fighter as opposed to someone who spams takedowns and relies exclusively on wrestling.
> 
> I don't think Brock really tried to take down Couture, Carwin, Heath Herring or Velasquez. He got Velasquez down and didn't really try to control him on the ground or GnP. He just held on to Velasquez's leg and allowed him to get back up.
> 
> If Brock gets serious about taking people down, I think they will get taken down and won't be getting back up.



Yes, he did. I mean the entire Heath Herring fight was lay and pray, and the entire Randy Courture fight was a clinch war, how on earth was he not trying in those fights?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 6, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Cheering for Big Nog and Lyoto this weekend, but I don't think either is going to win.
> 
> Tito calling himself the People's Champ.


Lyoto gonna win. Bet all you got on him at +345 or whatever. 


Gallic Rush said:


> He'll finally be able to drink that Corona that's been sitting in his fridge. Unfortunately, I think the burrito must be rancid by now.


He'll still eat it.

He's a warrior. 


Violent By Design said:


> - Frank is big, but he is not very strong.
> 
> - I don't think him being a blackbelt in BJJ means he won't get utterly tooled on the ground by Nogueria. Nogueria has outgrappled guys like Werdum and Barnett, what has Frank Mir done? Tap out Tank Abott and Brock Lesnar? Frank Mir is horrible off his back, and has always been. He got decimated by Brock Lesnar which is why people think Brock is amazing on the ground when hes not, he got ground and pounded by Brandon Vera and some can I never even heard of. Frank has never done anything in Jiu Jitsu to make me think he could hang with the GOAT :ho.
> 
> ...


Mir got beat up by Vera when he was fat, out of shape, and unmotivated. 

I'm not saying that Nog can't GNP him, or outwork him on the ground, I'm saying I find it incredibly unlikely he'd get submitted. He has fought high-level BJJ people before: Roberto Traven (6th degree blackbelt, ADCC open class champ--he submitted him), Big Nog (he knocked him out ), Roy Nelson. 


You're discrediting Mir with some TKOs, yet Nog was beaten by Dan Henderson once upon a time and couldn't submit Sergei Kharitonov and everyone submits that guy.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 6, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I'm not saying that Nog can't GNP him, or outwork him on the ground, I'm saying I find it incredibly unlikely he'd get submitted. He has fought high-level BJJ people before: Roberto Traven (6th degree blackbelt, ADCC open class champ--he submitted him), Big Nog (he knocked him out ), Roy Nelson.


THEN YOU ARE A FOOL!!!!! 




> You're discrediting Mir with some TKOs, yet Nog was beaten by Dan Henderson once upon a time and couldn't submit Sergei Kharitonov and everyone submits that guy.


Last time they fought, Nogueria submitted Dan Henderson. Dan never TKO'd Nogueria.

Now that I think about it, Dan would probably knock out Frank


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 6, 2011)

Dan might knock out Mir, but that's only because he's Dan fucking Henderson.

Dan would probably knock Nog out now too though, to be fair.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 6, 2011)

Honestly, Big Nog should have probably have won the decision against Dan. Those RINGS judges weren't too bright.

Still crazy that he managed to beat Big Nog, Yvel, and Babalu in one night. 

If they fought nowadays, it could be pretty interesting unless Minotauro takes him to the ground.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 6, 2011)

It could happen, too, if Dan really pushed for it. He ain't scared, homie.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 6, 2011)

True, it's just really difficult to accept that someone can knock Big Nog out after all the wars he's been through.

But yeah, nowadays Hendo can knock him out.

By the way, looks like the coaches for next season of TUF are Cruz/Faber after all.


----------



## Gaja (Dec 7, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Dan might knock out Mir, but that's only because he's Dan fucking Henderson.
> 
> Dan would probably knock Nog out now too though, to be fair.



I second this :ho

*Hendo* baby, Hendo


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 7, 2011)

Cruz/Faber TUF, huh? Sounds interesting. I wonder if they'll introduce the 125ers soon.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 7, 2011)

Holy shit


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 7, 2011)

GSP is ducking :ho!!! no other explanation!!


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 7, 2011)

Got that right. Fake injury.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 7, 2011)

I don't know if GSP will be the same again. ACL injury is really serious, and it's probably going to mess with his takedowns and overall athleticism.

Not ready for the end of the GSP era.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 7, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> - Frank is big, but he is not very strong.



Frank took Roy Nelson down multiple times.  To move that big, kitten devouring, sexy belly requires mucho horsepower.  

Watch on friday during the weigh-ins...  Frank Mir is a monster.

*If you doubt Frank Mir - I think a friendly sig bet might be in order here.* 

Let's say...  *if Nogueira loses* you have to say you're my bitch in your sig for 1 month.

If Nog wins, I'll use whatever sig you want me to.  



Violent By Design said:


> - I don't think him being a blackbelt in BJJ means he won't get utterly tooled on the ground by Nogueria. Nogueria has outgrappled guys like Werdum and Barnett



But...  will he be able to get the fight to the ground?  



Violent By Design said:


> Yes, he did. I mean the entire Heath Herring fight was lay and pray, and the entire Randy Courture fight was a clinch war, how on earth was he not trying in those fights?



Brock isn't a takedown spamming machine though...  like Koscheck and other fighters early on in their careers.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 7, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Frank took Roy Nelson down multiple times.  To move that big, kitten devouring, sexy belly requires mucho horsepower.
> 
> Watch on friday during the weigh-ins...  Frank Mir is a monster.


Roy Nelson is small and weak himself. Nelson is not a natural heavyweight or even a natural light heavyweight. 



> *If you doubt Frank Mir - I think a friendly sig bet might be in order here.*
> 
> Let's say...  *if Nogueira loses* you have to say you're my bitch in your sig for 1 month.
> 
> If Nog wins, I'll use whatever sig you want me to.


Yeah, you're really going out on a limb by siding with Frank Mir in this fight.

Here's my answer, no...~_~. 




> But...  will he be able to get the fight to the ground?


I have no idea, but Frank has crap wrestling, so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. 





> Brock isn't a takedown spamming machine though...  like Koscheck and other fighters early on in their careers.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 7, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Roy Nelson is small and weak himself. Nelson is not a natural heavyweight or even a natural light heavyweight.



Nelson hasn't had problems being taken down or controlled by anyone he's fought throughout his career.  I tend to think that means he isn't weak despite his height disadvantage.

Yeah, its true he could probably cut down to lhw if he lost the belly and mullet but the same might be said of Daniel Cormier who is only 5'11 and doesn't look like he has much fat on him.  There's also Mark Hunt who is only 5'10.

Strength may well be a deceptive thing if you go by height alone.



Violent By Design said:


> Yeah, you're really going out on a limb by siding with Frank Mir in this fight.



I'll sig beg on Tito.  He's a 2 to 1 underdog, that's probably as close to going out on a limb as I'll go without thinking Machida has a chance of winning..



Violent By Design said:


> I have no idea, but Frank has crap wrestling, so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.



Frank fought Carwin who is a division I wrestler and didn't get taken down in the clinch.  He took Nelson down & Nelson hasn't been taken down in a fight in a very long time.  

I agree his wrestling & strength and conditioning wasn't very good when he fought Lesnar, but think he's come a long way since then.



Violent By Design said:


> Spamming shots over and over again doesn't mean he isn't trying to take his opponents down. In the case of Heath Herring, that guy couldn't even get back up, he was wrestle fucked to the extreme .



Herring was beat up standing and on the ground.  

Here, watch it again, bro.  

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS5B7KDwZ8I[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBx5qCVioiA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 7, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> AFAIK, Brock's been working towards being comfortable striking and being a complete fighter as opposed to someone who spams takedowns and relies exclusively on wrestling.
> 
> *I don't think Brock really tried to take down Couture, Carwin, Heath Herring or Velasquez.*  He got Velasquez down and didn't really try to control him on the ground or GnP.  He just held on to Velasquez's leg and allowed him to get back up.
> 
> If Brock gets serious about taking people down, I think they will get taken down and won't be getting back up.



 Ok bro delusion time is over.



CrazyMoronX said:


> Brock beats Cain in a rematch.



Doesn't cain have a glass chin (or"temple")? 



Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Cheering for Big Nog and Lyoto this weekend, but I don't think either is going to win.



JJ being overrated. What's new. 



Violent By Design said:


> - Frank is big, but he is not very strong.
> 
> - I don't think him being a blackbelt in BJJ means he won't get utterly tooled on the ground by Nogueria. Nogueria has outgrappled guys like Werdum and Barnett, what has Frank Mir done? Tap out Tank Abott and Brock Lesnar? Frank Mir is horrible off his back, and has always been. He got decimated by Brock Lesnar which is why people think Brock is amazing on the ground when hes not, he got ground and pounded by Brandon Vera and some can I never even heard of. Frank has never done anything in Jiu Jitsu to make me think he could hang with the GOAT :ho.
> 
> ...





I started pissing blood after watching that fight. 

Also, doesn't advancing position mean the opposite of LnP? You mount your opponent = you're not LnP ing.



CrazyMoronX said:


> Dan might knock out Mir, but that's only because he's Dan fucking Henderson.
> 
> Dan would probably knock Nog out now too though, to be fair.



People overestimated his chin in his prime and overestimate his deterioration. That shot by Cain was titanic. 


And honestly, I feel Machida might suprise a lot of people.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 7, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Nelson hasn't had problems being taken down or controlled by anyone he's fought throughout his career.  I tend to think that means he isn't weak despite his height disadvantage.


 Roy hasn't fought a lot of good people, and he got bullied into the corner when he fought Ben Rothwell. 

Nogueria would single leg Roy Nelson.





> Yeah, its true he could probably cut down to lhw if he lost the belly and mullet but the same might be said of Daniel Cormier who is only 5'11 and doesn't look like he has much fat on him.  There's also Mark Hunt who is only 5'10.


I'm not talking about height, Cormier and Mark Hunt are bigger people than Nelson. Nelson is just heavy because he eats a lot of cheese burgers. 



> Strength may well be a deceptive thing if you go by height alone.


You're the only one mentioning height so far .





> I'll sig beg on Tito.  He's a 2 to 1 underdog, that's probably as close to going out on a limb as I'll go without thinking Machida has a chance of winning..


I like Tito though D:. I think he'll lose, but I'm hoping he won't.

Since you seem like you want to bet, I'll take it. 





> Frank fought Carwin who is a division I wrestler


Division 2. 



> and didn't get taken down in the clinch.


Because Shane didn't throw him there. Why would Shane throw a jiu jitsu guy to the floor? He instead just uppercutted him into oblivion.



> He took Nelson down & Nelson hasn't been taken down in a fight in a very long time.


Who has Nelson fought that would take him down? Kimbo, Schuab, JDS? Those guys don't want to fight a blackbelt on the ground. Struve is the only jiu jitsu guy he's fought recently, so there really hasn't been anyone who would try to take Big Country down. 



> I agree his wrestling & strength and conditioning wasn't very good when he fought Lesnar, but think he's come a long way since then.


He's certainly bigger, but I don't know how good his wrestling is. It hasn't been tested. 





> Herring was beat up standing and on the ground.
> 
> Here, watch it again, bro.
> 
> ...



I didn't say he wasn't.



> Also, doesn't advancing position mean the opposite of LnP? You mount your opponent = you're not LnP ing.



LNP means keeping a person down to stall the clock. That fight was really boring, Brock was getting these positions and doing nothing with them. LNP isn't a literal term, just like having a good chin isn't literally a measurement of how good your chin is but how well of a punch you can take.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 7, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Ok bro delusion time is over.



What delusion?

*Round 1*  Brock lands a big right hand in the opening seconds which breaks the orbital bone on Herring's face.  

*Round 3*  Opening seconds, Brock lands a big leg kick.  Herring moves forward and clinches against the cage with Brock because he doesn't want Brock to kick him again.

Most of the fight takes place on the ground, but Brock dominates the stand up, too.  In the 3rd Herring actually clinches with Brock & risks being taken down again to avoid being kicked.



Aokiji said:


> Doesn't cain have a glass chin (or"temple")?



JDS' punch landed near the ear almost identical to Matt Serra vs GSP 1.

Cain wasn't unconscious or dazed from that punch, it only affected his balance.  If you watch closely, you'll see Cain has the presence of mind to put both of his hands on the ground to try to balance himself after JDS tags him with that punch to the ear.



Aokiji said:


> JJ being overrated. What's new.



He's not over-rated, for whatever reason people just don't like him enough to give him his props.    He's winning fights but not very popular.



Aokiji said:


> And honestly, I feel Machida might suprise a lot of people.



Machida covers ground well and has better mobility than Rampage or Shogun.

Rampage isn't fast enough on his feet to close the distance and get close enough to JBJ to land those big punches.  Machida is a lot faster on his feet and could get inside to land.

But, on the flip side, Machida isn't as tough or durable as Rampage or Shogun and is probably more susceptible to being KO'ed/TKO'ed.



Violent By Design said:


> Roy hasn't fought a lot of good people, and he got bullied into the corner when he fought Ben Rothwell.



Who hasn't Roy fought?



Violent By Design said:


> Nogueria would single leg Roy Nelson.



Heh, nah.

Nogueira was a force in the Pride days.  He would have gotten Roy Nelson down if they had fought back then.

But, things are different now.  Whereas Mir and Nelson have upped their game, Nogueira is stuck in a timewarp and doesn't seem to have worked on improving his skills much at all.



Violent By Design said:


> I'm not talking about height, Cormier and Mark Hunt are bigger people than Nelson. Nelson is just heavy because he eats a lot of cheese burgers.
> 
> You're the only one mentioning height so far .



You're seriously falling for the fat guy hype.  Just because someone doesn't have a ripped physique doesn't mean they're weak.

Now that I look at Cormier wondering how much fat he has his physique isn't that different from Roys and he's an olympic gold medal wrestler.  Maybe, Roy is doing something right after all.  



Violent By Design said:


> I like Tito though D:. I think he'll lose, but I'm hoping he won't.
> 
> Since you seem like you want to bet, I'll take it.



K.  Just to make this clear....

We're making a sig bet.

If Tito wins -- you wear the sig of my choice.
If little Nog wins -- the opposite applies.

Yes/no?



Violent By Design said:


> Division 2.



Yeah, he is division 2.  My bad.



Violent By Design said:


> Because Shane didn't throw him there. Why would Shane throw a jiu jitsu guy to the floor? He instead just uppercutted him into oblivion.



I don't remember -- but I think Carwin might've dove for a leg.  

It seems as if Carwin uses the same move against fighters he thinks has technical striking -- he rushes in and clinches with them against the fence(against Mir and JDS).

I'll have to watch it again, but I think Carwin did make some attempt to get a TD.



Violent By Design said:


> Who has Nelson fought that would take him down? Kimbo, Schuab, JDS? Those guys don't want to fight a blackbelt on the ground. Struve is the only jiu jitsu guy he's fought recently, so there really hasn't been anyone who would try to take Big Country down.



Mir took Roy down & Roy got back up and landed some bombs.  Enough so that Mir went to the hospital thinking his jaw and his rib might be fractured or broken.  

It wasn't a pretty fight, and it showed that Roy probably needed to lose some pounds to avoid tiring in a prolonged wrestling match due to how much carrying all that extra weight would take out of a person.

I think it still shows that both of them have good wrestling though.  Mir for getting the takedowns and Nelson for manging to stand up after being taken down.

Its not like Gilbert Yvel or other fighters where you see them get taken down and they're stuck on the bottom for the rest of the fight.



Violent By Design said:


> He's certainly bigger, but I don't know how good his wrestling is. It hasn't been tested.



-shrug-



Violent By Design said:


> LNP means keeping a person down to stall the clock. That fight was really boring, Brock was getting these positions and doing nothing with them. LNP isn't a literal term, just like having a good chin isn't literally a measurement of how good your chin is but how well of a punch you can take.



That's not quite what LnP means.

Its lying on someone and being afraid to posture up, give them space or take chances.  Brock has never LnP'ed on anyone.  

You could say he isn't doing much because he's not fighting at the fast pace of a featherweight or bantam weight -- but that's completely normal for heavyweights as they typically have a slower pace.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 7, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> LNP means keeping a person down to stall the clock. That fight was really boring, Brock was getting these positions and doing nothing with them. LNP isn't a literal term, just like having a good chin isn't literally a measurement of how good your chin is but how well of a punch you can take.



Well, mounting a guy should really dispell the LNP claims. I see LNP as little activity on the ground, taking no risk, doing nothing. Advancing in position isn't nothing. 

Like Overeem did to Werdum after he got pulled down. :ho

And Brock throw some painful GNP btw.



1mmortal 1tachi said:


> What delusion?
> 
> *Round 1*  Brock lands a big right hand in the opening seconds which breaks the orbital bone on Herring's face.
> 
> ...



He tried to take down everyone he's fought. To say that he can takedown anyone is delusional cuz Cain disproved it.



1mmortal 1tachi said:


> JDS' punch landed near the ear almost identical to Matt Serra vs GSP 1.
> 
> Cain wasn't unconscious or dazed from that punch, it only affected his balance.  If you watch closely, you'll see Cain has the presence of mind to put both of his hands on the ground to try to balance himself after JDS tags him with that punch to the ear.



It was a joke. 



1mmortal 1tachi said:


> He's not over-rated, for whatever reason people just don't like him enough to give him his props.    He's winning fights but not very popular.



He is overrated cuz people give him TOO MUCH credit.

People actually act as if the mentioning the possibity of somebody beating him is blasphemous.



1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Machida covers ground well and has better mobility than Rampage or Shogun.
> 
> Rampage isn't fast enough on his feet to close the distance and get close enough to JBJ to land those big punches.  Machida is a lot faster on his feet and could get inside to land.
> 
> But, on the flip side, Machida isn't as tough or durable as Rampage or Shogun and is probably more susceptible to being KO'ed/TKO'ed.



Jones had trouble offensively against Rampage. 

I think Machida should worry about him landing on Jones, not about Jones landing on him.


----------



## Ippy (Dec 7, 2011)

Dohoho...  Diaz vs. Condit for Interim WW belt.  Fans be da winnars...

Also I can't believe people honestly think that GSP is trying to duck anyone.  You don't undergo surgery requiring nearly a year of recovery time just for kicks.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 7, 2011)

Diaz is going to tear Condit up.

I wonder if he'll fight someone else and defend his Interim belt? 10 months is a long time.


----------



## Ippy (Dec 7, 2011)

Smoking that shit.

I predict 5 round war.  _A fucking war._  Late stoppage, hopefully.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 7, 2011)

Ippy said:


> Dohoho...  Diaz vs. Condit for Interim WW belt.  Fans be da winnars...
> 
> Also I can't believe people honestly think that GSP is trying to duck anyone.  You don't undergo surgery requiring nearly a year of recovery time just for kicks.



Inorite. :rofl



CrazyMoronX said:


> Diaz is going to tear Condit up.
> 
> I wonder if he'll fight someone else and defend his Interim belt? 10 months is a long time.



Honestly, I think Condit might KO Diaz. Dude got power, didn't Diaz get dropped by Daley? Also, he's real tall too. 

Also, apparently, Bisping thinks he deserves a shot at Anderson, because Chael and Hendo already had theirs and he didn't.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 7, 2011)

Yeah, Diaz got dropped by Daley.


But that's Paul fucking Daley. He hits like a horse--not counting cheap shots .


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 7, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Diaz is going to tear Condit up.
> 
> I wonder if he'll fight someone else and defend his Interim belt? 10 months is a long time.


I think it's an interesting match up, but don't be surprised if Diaz takes an ass whooping in the first round or two.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 7, 2011)

I could see a back-and-forth for a while, but eventually Diaz always gets into his own GSP-esque riddum and dominates.

If this match is 5 rounds then Condit is in serious trouble.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 7, 2011)

Yeah, Daley is the hardest hitter in the WW division (or Ellenberger). 

Condit has more dynamic striking and is more versatile with it, but Nick has better boxing and much better BJJ. They both made it out of the 3rd round once each, but Condit was really gassed near the end of the 3rd and Nick looked great after the beatdown he gave Noons. I would give an edge in cardio to Nick.

Condit has more power, the size advantage, better game-planning, and the better chin (not by a whole lot). Nick has amazing recovery though, and I want to say Condit has the better transition game in terms of wrestling but we really haven't seen Nick's wrestling game in a very long time (and he's been training in that a lot more since the last time he was in the UFC, with people from Urijah's camp and some other high level guys).

Oh yeah, and Condit's killer instinct will be an interesting factor in this fight. 

Going to be crazy. The last Strikeforce and last WEC welterweight champions.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 7, 2011)

Gonna be a sick fight, but Nick has shown to be a better boxer. I dont see how Condit can knock out Nick Diaz. Nick beat Paul Daley in a BRAWL, I dont think people know how impressive that is. He also took hard shots from KJ Noons and BJ Penn. Nick is a hard guy to finish, so theres no way Carlos is gonna do that.

The biggest advantages Carlos has is that he is more explosive and uses kicks. On the ground, Diaz should have the advantage, so I'm not sure if Carlos would go for a takedown (he doesn't have notable wrestling either).


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 7, 2011)

Yeah, if Condit wins, I don't see it being a finish. 

I think NBK's BJJ is good enough that he won't get submitted, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nick tapped him out. I don't see Nick finishing Condit with strikes unless he gasses really badly; then maybe a TKO. 

I see it going to a decision though.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 8, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Yeah, if Condit wins, I don't see it being a finish.
> 
> *I think NBK's BJJ is good enough that he won't get submitted*, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nick tapped him out. I don't see Nick finishing Condit with strikes unless he gasses really badly; then maybe a TKO.
> 
> I see it going to a decision though.



Sweeps.

Also, I also smell a possible sub by Diaz. Honestly, if Condit really has the power I hear he has, he might really bring home the TKO.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 8, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Gonna be a sick fight, but Nick has shown to be a better boxer. I dont see how Condit can knock out Nick Diaz. Nick beat Paul Daley in a BRAWL, I dont think people know how impressive that is. He also took hard shots from KJ Noons and BJ Penn. Nick is a hard guy to finish, so theres no way Carlos is gonna do that.
> 
> The biggest advantages Carlos has *is that he is more explosive* and uses kicks. On the ground, Diaz should have the advantage, so I'm not sure if Carlos would go for a takedown (he doesn't have notable wrestling either).



Can somebody explain this? Isn't explosive = quick or fast?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 8, 2011)

Eh, not really. Explosive in a sports physiology framework refers to power, also called rate of force development. I.E. an explosive movement is one that requires a large amount of force to be developed rapidly. 

Different from being "quick" which is about acceleration, also called starting strength.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 8, 2011)

So Carwin is more explosive than Brock or Cain?  Penn more explosive than GSP?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 8, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Yeah, Daley is the hardest hitter in the WW division (or Ellenberger).
> 
> Condit has more dynamic striking and is more versatile with it, but Nick has better boxing and much better BJJ. They both made it out of the 3rd round once each, but Condit was really gassed near the end of the 3rd and Nick looked great after the beatdown he gave Noons. I would give an edge in cardio to Nick.
> 
> ...


You would think, training with Gilbert Melendez, Jake Shields, and whoever else, he would have great wrestling skills--or, at the very least, great TDD.

You would think.

But that doesn't seem to be the case. Though it hasn't been a factor in many of his last fights, as he just submits people when it goes to the floor.


Gallic Rush said:


> Eh, not really. Explosive in a sports physiology framework refers to power, also called rate of force development. I.E. an explosive movement is one that requires a large amount of force to be developed rapidly.
> 
> Different from being "quick" which is about acceleration, also called starting strength.


Usually it's the black people who are explosive.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 8, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> So Carwin is more explosive than Brock or Cain?  Penn more explosive than GSP?



It's not quite that simple. Different muscle groups will have varying fiber type composition, motor unit firing rate and recruitment patterns. And of course all of these factors are going to vary from athlete to athlete.

Additionally, "explosive" is only an abstract term. It is not strictly related to a mechanical function like force (newtons), velocity (distance/time), acceleration (change in distance/change in time), and power (force x velocity) are. Thus, while we could measure which fighters can generate the most speed, power, or force, we cannot really measure which fighters are the most "explosive."


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 8, 2011)

Melvin Guillard is more explosive than anyone at LW.

And then his chin explodes.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 8, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> It's not quite that simple. Different muscle groups will have varying fiber type composition, motor unit firing rate and recruitment patterns. And of course all of these factors are going to vary from athlete to athlete.
> 
> Additionally, "explosive" is only an abstract term. It is not strictly related to a mechanical function like force (newtons), velocity (distance/time), acceleration (change in distance/change in time), and *power (force x velocity)* are. Thus, while we could measure which fighters can generate the most speed, power, or force, we cannot really measure which fighters are the most "explosive."



Try energy/time.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 8, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Try energy/time.



Mechanical power is force x velocity.

And unless there's a fighter that has electrically-charged punches like Blanka or some shit, we'll stick to mechanical power.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 8, 2011)

Blanka, p4p best and  UFC HW Champ.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 8, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Mechanical power is force x velocity.
> 
> And unless there's a fighter that has electrically-charged punches like Blanka or some shit, we'll stick to mechanical power.



Care o link me to the formula? 

And pretty sure that power in general is watt. Mechanical, kinetic, electric, you name it.

And since when can you multiply 2 vectors like that?  I think you mean mass x velocity, which is momentum.

Also, lol at Rich's face when Anderson was kneeing his face in.



Thing is, Sonnen went at this guy like he was nothing and he gets no respect for his fearlessness.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 8, 2011)

Sonnen also did a barrel roll.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 8, 2011)

Btw, no science fair here, but i looked it up and it seems mechanical power is force x angular velocity. 

Honestly though, I though you can really only add vectors onto one another or multiply them by a scalar. Both force and velocity are vectors.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 8, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Btw, no science fair here, but i looked it up and it seems mechanical power is force x angular velocity.
> 
> Honestly though, I though you can really only add vectors onto one another or multiply them by a scalar. Both force and velocity are vectors.


Multiplying two vectors creates a scalar product. The math is 100% sound on this, just look it up on wiki: 

and


And, to be fair, there is some usage of power in watts in sports physiology even if it is somewhat less frequent. I know in testing situations cycling power is always measured in watts, and I think the same is true for rowers (although I usually skip over those articles ). But most everything else in sports physiology is calculated as mechanical power because it's just easier. It ties in more logically to the overall framework of sports physiology because as scientists, coaches, and athletes, we are almost always interested in both the factors of mechanical power anyways. There are few sports where force is almost irrelevant (ping pong?), just as there are few sports where velocity is almost irrelevant (powerlifting).


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 8, 2011)




----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 8, 2011)

^DUDE, there is a shitload of fallout from that. Rashad was fined like $30,000.

On a related note, they cut Miguel Torres for making an offensive tweet. What the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck?





EDIT: Jesus Fuck, all he was doing was quoting It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 8, 2011)

Wow, they're serious. 

Didn't Forrest make a rape joke not too long ago? I don't recall anything happening to him. 

Dana is inconsistent and really biased as a promoter. I wouldn't be surprised seeing Mayhem get cut soon.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 8, 2011)

Yeah, what the fuck? I guess if you're fighting on the main card of big events Dana doesn't get quite so sensitive about what you say. 

Torres makes one shitty joke (basically a quote from network television) and gets shit canned.

I feel so bad for that dude right now.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 8, 2011)

Hopefully he manages to stay somehow, but looks unlikely.

UFC announcing flyweights this weekend.



> @MattErickson23
> Matt Erickson
> Just spoke to @MiguelTorresMMA via text. He assures me he was quoting from "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" and was watching it at time.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 8, 2011)

How dare you quote a show that is owned and televised by the people we just signed a 7 year deal with! You're CUT, Torres!


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 8, 2011)

This is some bullshit right here. Dana letting his emotions get the better of him.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 8, 2011)

I dunno, this stinks of bullshit. Really, Dana? You couldn't handle how offensive the tweet was so you cut him?

More like the UFC needed an excuse to cut him and jumped at the first chance using "progressive thinking" to get good publicity. Two birds with one stone.

EDIT: Meanwhile Forrest Griffin is raping chicks missionary style and Rashad is diddling kids.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 8, 2011)

Forrest won an award for his tweets or some shit too, lol. This is ridiculous.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 8, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> He tried to take down everyone he's fought. To say that he can takedown anyone is delusional cuz Cain disproved it.



He doesn't rely only on takedowns.  He's beating people up standing too.  

Brock got Cain down.  

He just held onto Cain's leg though and didn't make a serious effort to complete the TD.



Aokiji said:


> He is overrated cuz people give him TOO MUCH credit.
> 
> People actually act as if the mentioning the possibity of somebody beating him is blasphemous.



Lots of people say Machida has a chance.

If I offered anyone who said Machida is going to win a $5 bet, they probably wouldn't take it as even they would acknowledge they don't believe what they're saying...

People may say its not blasphemous, but I don't think any of them really believe what they're saying.



Aokiji said:


> Jones had trouble offensively against Rampage.
> 
> I think Machida should worry about him landing on Jones, not about Jones landing on him.



Well, people talk about how elusive Machida is, and how his style can win fights.

He does have a unique style that is effective, sometimes.  But, I don't think its the type of style that'll give Jones problems.  

Machida seems to still make a lot of fundamental errors with how he fights.  Shogun capitalized on Machida's tendency to drop his hands after he throws punches / kicks.  Machida likes to keep his hands low & relies on his ability to cover ground quickly too much, I think.

He also doesn't commit to his strikes enough to deliver with KO power.  I think Jones will pick him apart at long range or take Machida down and pwn him.  -shrug-

It would be nice if Jones gets a sub considering he's supposedly a white belt in BJJ.



CrazyMoronX said:


> Yeah, Diaz got dropped by Daley.



Diaz hits hard, is tough and durable and has amazing cardio.

He's a one trick pony though.  The only time he does well with his striking is when he can back someone up against the cage and unload on them.

Most of the time when he strikes near the center of the cage, he gets tooled.  Daley and BJ Penn outstruck him in the center.  Its only when Diaz backed them up against the cage that Diaz did well.



Gallic Rush said:


> Eh, not really. Explosive in a sports physiology framework refers to power, also called rate of force development. I.E. an explosive movement is one that requires a large amount of force to be developed rapidly.
> 
> Different from being "quick" which is about acceleration, also called starting strength.



Technique has a lot to do with it.

Someone who can bench press 500 lbs wouldn't necessarily drive a golf ball farther than Tiger Woods.  

To throw an explosive punch or kick could well be as dependent upon proper posture and technique as a golf swing.  Its not necessarily all about physique or brute strength.  



CrazyMoronX said:


> Usually it's the black people who are explosive.



Black people from the United States have higher proportions of muscle than other ethnic groups.  Supposedly, its scientifically proven & a big part of why so many of them excel at sports.



Gallic Rush said:


> ^DUDE, there is a shitload of fallout from that. Rashad was fined like $30,000.
> 
> On a related note, they cut Miguel Torres for making an offensive tweet. What the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck?



I'm glad Dana did that.

I don't much like people laughing or finding pleasure in the suffering of those who have been raped or molested.

Maybe, its not so bad for ppl on this forum who are 12-17 because they're too young to know any better.  But, for an adult to do it, its not as cool as some people think it is, I'm thinking...


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 8, 2011)

No one said it was cool or found any pleasure from rape victims. Don't be stupid. 

If Miguel is getting cut for quoting a rape joke from a TV show on Twitter; Rashad and Forrest should both be cut. Simple as that.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 8, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> No one said it was cool or found any pleasure from rape victims. Don't be stupid.



Whether you intended it or not that is more or less what you're doing by making jokes about rape.

You think rape is a funny topic or something fit for a joke?

What about Rashad and his child molestation comments.  Is that supposed to be funny, too?


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 8, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Whether you intended it or not that is more or less what you're doing by making jokes about rape.
> 
> You think rape is a funny topic or something fit for a joke?
> 
> What about Rashad and his child molestation comments.  Is that supposed to be funny, too?



Of course I don't. The problem here is the inconsistency of cutting Miguel and keeping Rashad and Forrest.

Do you not see anything wrong with that, when Rashad made his joke on live television?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 8, 2011)

> I'm glad Dana did that.
> 
> I don't much like people laughing or finding pleasure in the suffering of those who have been raped or molested.
> 
> Maybe, its not so bad for ppl on this forum who are 12-17 because they're too young to know any better.  But, for an adult to do it, its not as cool as some people think it is, I'm thinking...


Well, you're entitled to your opinion of course, but I personally find the inconsistency (Griffin, Rashad, etc.) to be indicative of bullshit. If you're going to cut Torres, go ahead and cut him. But don't pretend you're doing it for noble reasons when your big draws are cracking jokes about pedophiles and "rape is the new missionary." 

All I'm saying is, if we're going to say rape jokes are below the standard of UFC fighters, let's be consistent in that and not single out Torres.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 8, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Of course I don't. The problem here is the inconsistency of cutting Miguel and keeping Rashad and Forrest.
> 
> Do you not see anything wrong with that, when Rashad made his joke on live television?



What inconsistency?

Just because Torres quoted a movie doesn't mean what he did is acceptable anymore than quoting Mein kampf or a KKK brochure.



Gallic Rush said:


> Well, you're entitled to your opinion of course, but I personally find the inconsistency (Griffin, Rashad, etc.) to be indicative of bullshit. If you're going to cut Torres, go ahead and cut him. But don't pretend you're doing it for noble reasons when your big draws are cracking jokes about pedophiles and "rape is the new missionary."
> 
> All I'm saying is, if we're going to say rape jokes are below the standard of UFC fighters, let's be consistent in that and not single out Torres.



People say things they regret or don't really mean a lot in a 'live' setting as its in the heat of the moment, etc, etc. 

Brock and his comments about getting on top of his wife and dissing sponsors.  Frank Mir saying he hoped Brock would die.  Etcetera.  It happens.

Rashad's excuse was a lot better than Torres'.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 8, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> What inconsistency?
> 
> Just because Torres quoted a movie doesn't mean what he did is acceptable anymore than quoting Mein kampf or a KKK brochure.



> Miguel makes rape joke
> Cut from UFC

> Forrest wins Twitter award
> Tweets rape joke not long after
> Nothing happens to him

> Rashad makes rape joke on live TV
> He gets fined (?)

Why not cut all 3? Why are they only cutting Miguel?


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 8, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> > Miguel makes rape joke
> > Cut from UFC
> 
> > Forrest wins Twitter award
> ...



1.  Forrest had the good sense to delete his tweet.
2.  Rashad said things people don't mean to say in the heat of the moment, etc.
3.  Miguel Torres didn't have the good sense to delete his tweet.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 8, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> What inconsistency?
> 
> Just because Torres quoted a movie doesn't mean what he did is acceptable anymore than quoting Mein kampf or a KKK brochure.
> 
> ...


Fair enough, but what about Forrest Griffin? He tweeted "rape is the new missionary" a while back and didn't get a fine or jackshit.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 8, 2011)

Just sounds like Dana's being selective and a lot of hypocrisy. Apparently Ariel did an interview with him that he'll post soon, so hopefully that clears the air a little bit.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 8, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> 1.  Forrest had the good sense to delete his tweet.
> 2.  Rashad said things people don't mean to say in the heat of the moment, etc.
> 3.  Miguel Torres didn't have the good sense to delete his tweet.


Miguel changed his tweet to omit women and rape.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 8, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Machida seems to still make a lot of fundamental errors with how he fights.  Shogun capitalized on Machida's tendency to drop his hands after he throws punches / kicks.  Machida likes to keep his hands low & relies on his ability to cover ground quickly too much, I think.



Not really. The punch he knocked Machida down with was a right hook counter over a left cross. Even if Machida's lead hand had been up he still would have been hit. If he had tucked his chin he would have taken less damage, but it would have still been a pretty devastating counter.



> Technique has a lot to do with it.
> 
> Someone who can bench press 500 lbs wouldn't necessarily drive a golf ball farther than Tiger Woods.
> 
> To throw an explosive punch or kick could well be as dependent upon proper posture and technique as a golf swing.  Its not necessarily all about physique or brute strength.



Technique is an expression of physiological and neuromuscular development. With poor technique raw power will inefficiently be converted into the desired movement, but ultimately refined technique will only get you so far. 

I tried to address this with Aokiji, but I sort of left it out: rate of force development (power) and maximum force (strength) are two different things. Any movement that must occur within a short time period such as a golf swing requires a high rate of force development but not necessarily high maximum force. A powerlifter might be able to generate 500 lbs of force in a  bench press, but that is because he can take as long as he needs to lift the weight. You cannot take several seconds to swing a golf club, it must be done in a split second.

The same principle holds true for striking. You have low external and frictional resistance and a small window in which to develop force. If only a few motor units (muscle components) can be recruited in the short time it takes to throw the strike, the resulting strike will be weak even if the individual throwing it looks like he ought to be able to knock over an elephant, no matter if his technique and coordination are flawless.


----------



## Tiger (Dec 8, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> 1.  Forrest had the good sense to delete his tweet.
> 2.  Rashad said things people don't mean to say in the heat of the moment, etc.
> 3.  Miguel Torres didn't have the good sense to delete his tweet.



You could cut the arbitrary justification in this post with a dull butter knife.

It's a double-standard, and one done for business purposes. Nothing else, stop making an _effort_ to be foolish.

Rashad and Forrest are more popular and bring in more cash. They stay. Torres is used as an example. End of story.


----------



## Zieg (Dec 8, 2011)

Dana missed the point of the tweet. It has nothing to do with rape. Calling a conversion van a "rape van" or Molester Van has been a figure of speech for a long time. Torres was simply suggesting that if these vans had a different connotation attached to them then more women would buy them.

Rashad's comments were much worse and had a much more rape connotation attached to it. 

Dana also stated at the end of the Ariel Helwani interview that Rashad would not be punished for making a child rape joke in front of a live fox press conference.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 9, 2011)

^Yeah, I just got done watching that interview, what the fuck. 

I feel bad for Torres. Hope he keeps his shit together at any rate.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 9, 2011)

Big Nog via submission.


----------



## Chocochip (Dec 9, 2011)

That was a great move by Dana, sense of respect for the MMA everywhere, future fighters won't mess up now, Forrest and Rashard Evans more of vets, learning from mistake, Torres an idiot.

Rarely with with Dana but good move here. Even if Torres meant something else, many of his followers could have been rape victims(1 out of 4 women raped at some point in life) and with the rage going to it was stupid.

Rashard joke was fucked up but it was something just said rather than thought of, tweeted, and cemented.

Everyone says stupid shit, but to tweet something you have time to think of and keep it is the difference.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 9, 2011)

Chocochip said:


> That was a great move by Dana, sense of respect for the MMA everywhere, future fighters won't mess up now, Forrest and Rashard Evans more of vets, learning from mistake, Torres an idiot.
> 
> Rarely with with Dana but good move here. Even if Torres meant something else, many of his followers could have been rape victims(1 out of 4 women raped at some point in life) and with the rage going to it was stupid.
> 
> ...



Go kill yourself, ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".). 

Seriously, if you needed proof that George Carlin's "Think of how stupid the average person is and half of them is stupider than that" is a realistic way to look at reality, look at situations like this. There is no action by Dana stupid enough that wouldn't gain the approval of someone, particularly a blowhard who wants to play captain save a ho.

I also like how calling Dana a raging dipshit for doing this means that you find the joke funny. I dont. But last time I checked, you need to do something to get fired. Torres didn't.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 9, 2011)

Guys, if you were in front of me, i would probably rape you with my fist until you found Miguel's joke funny. 

See what I did there? :ho

Honestly, it's also funny that, had he made a joke about prison rape, nobody would've given a shit. But hey, he made it about WOMEN....

I am flabbergasted how anyone could actually tolerate such a farce, much less support it. Do you guys need painkillers when taking a shit?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 9, 2011)

Torres is annoying and over rated, I'm glad White kicked him out. No tolerance for sexism.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 9, 2011)

Torres got cut for his rape tweet?


----------



## Chocochip (Dec 9, 2011)

Torres is just one person, I think Dana did well here, most likely Torres will apologize(losing too many fans), go through a series of being Dana's bitch, and come back and Dana will have control.

Dana is the ultimate bluffer.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 9, 2011)

He'll probably be back, yeah.

But I am not really going to miss him that much in the interim. He could do well for himself fighting in Japan or something, build up some steam, then come back and make a run for the title.


----------



## Ippy (Dec 9, 2011)

Aokiji, you were warned...


----------



## Tiger (Dec 9, 2011)

Ippy said:


> Aokiji, you were warned...





Jones TKO
Mir decision
Ortiz decision (bad night for the ogres)
Ebersole submission
Hominick decision FOTN


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 9, 2011)

Seiko said:


> War Big Nog! I don't like Frank Murr
> 
> Machida by decision



Machida gonna knock out Jon Jones.


----------



## eHav (Dec 9, 2011)

Chocochip said:


> That was a great move by Dana, sense of respect for the MMA everywhere, future fighters won't mess up now, Forrest and Rashard Evans more of vets, learning from mistake, Torres an idiot.
> 
> Rarely with with Dana but good move here. Even if Torres meant something else, many of his followers could have been rape victims(1 out of 4 women raped at some point in life) and with the rage going to it was stupid.
> 
> ...



lol where does this come from? i bet they used the broadest rape description they could find.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 9, 2011)

They only surveyed South African women.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 9, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Well, you're entitled to your opinion of course, but I personally find the inconsistency (Griffin, Rashad, etc.) to be indicative of bullshit. If you're going to cut Torres, go ahead and cut him. But don't pretend you're doing it for noble reasons when your big draws are cracking jokes about pedophiles and "rape is the new missionary."
> 
> All I'm saying is, if we're going to say rape jokes are below the standard of UFC fighters, let's be consistent in that and not single out Torres.







Gallic Rush said:


> Not really. The punch he knocked Machida down with was a right hook counter over a left cross. Even if Machida's lead hand had been up he still would have been hit. If he had tucked his chin he would have taken less damage, but it would have still been a pretty devastating counter.



Machida has a tendency to drop his hands after throwing a punch.  

It leaves him especially open to counters.  If Machida throws a punch, you know he'll be wide open as his hands will be down near his waist afterwards.

I never said Machida wouldn't have been KO'ed - only that he has fundamental bad habits that can be exploited. 



Gallic Rush said:


> Technique is an expression of physiological and neuromuscular development. With poor technique raw power will inefficiently be converted into the desired movement, but ultimately refined technique will only get you so far.



You're venturing into people using overly technical and pointless language in an effort to sound credible land.  

Weight training and training to deliver a KO punch are two different types of training.  Its not simply converting static strength to motion.  There are many fundamental differences.



Gallic Rush said:


> I tried to address this with Aokiji, but I sort of left it out: rate of force development (power) and maximum force (strength) are two different things. Any movement that must occur within a short time period such as a golf swing requires a high rate of force development but not necessarily high maximum force. A powerlifter might be able to generate 500 lbs of force in a  bench press, but that is because he can take as long as he needs to lift the weight. You cannot take several seconds to swing a golf club, it must be done in a split second.



That sounds vaguely like sports science bs.

Emphasis on bs.



Gallic Rush said:


> The same principle holds true for striking. You have low external and frictional resistance and a small window in which to develop force. If only a few motor units (muscle components) can be recruited in the short time it takes to throw the strike, the resulting strike will be weak even if the individual throwing it looks like he ought to be able to knock over an elephant, no matter if his technique and coordination are flawless.



Have you ever wondered why people with a skinny physique like Manny Pacquiao can KO fighters who have ripped, weight lifter, physiques?

Technique is power.  



Law said:


> You could cut the arbitrary justification in this post with a dull butter knife.
> 
> It's a double-standard, and one done for business purposes. Nothing else, stop making an _effort_ to be foolish.
> 
> Rashad and Forrest are more popular and bring in more cash. They stay. Torres is used as an example. End of story.



In court, someone who pleads guilty receives a lesser sentence than someone who pleads innocence.  Would you say that constitutes a double standard?

To be fair, people are dealt with on a case by case basis and not all cases are the same.

To say that all cases should be treated exactly the same is where things become unfair.  Really what you're encouraging is unfairness.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 9, 2011)

Is it tomorrow yet? 

Once Machida wins again, I wonder how long the new Machida era will last.


----------



## Tiger (Dec 9, 2011)

Machida gonna knock Jones out by head-butting him in the fist, elbows and knees too many times? 



I don't get what people don't like about this kid.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 9, 2011)

I really don't understand how so many people can be supporting Dana on this one. 

Oh well, moving on....



1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Machida has a tendency to drop his hands after throwing a punch.
> 
> It leaves him especially open to counters.  If Machida throws a punch, you know he'll be wide open as his hands will be down near his waist afterwards.
> 
> I never said Machida wouldn't have been KO'ed - only that he has fundamental bad habits that can be exploited.


Yeh, well, who knows. Hitting Machida with a counter is not that easy as he's pretty conservative when it comes to throwing the first shot. Again, that lead left he threw at Shogun was a glaring exception and he paid pretty dearly for it. Not saying Machida has all his shit figured out, but I think he has enough tools to give Jones some problems at any rate.




> You're venturing into people using overly technical and pointless language in an effort to sound credible land.


 Well, since credibility is what you seem to be attacking, I'll post a few sources to back up every statement I make. Let's see how the evidence stacks up.



> Weight training and training to deliver a KO punch are two different types of training.  Its not simply converting static strength to motion.  There are many fundamental differences.


I never even mentioned weight training. 

Incidentally though, training to increase punching power could include traditional weight training. It is widely accepted in the field of sports physiology that power can be increased through traditional weight lifting. Although it is not usually a good idea to use weight lifting exclusively.  



> That sounds vaguely like sports science bs.
> 
> Emphasis on bs.


The difference between maximum force and maximum rate of force development is a thoroughly researched topic and with a wide consensus among sports scientists. I have a mountain of evidence I could hit you with right here, but for now I'll just refer you to Strength and Power in Sport: Olympic Encyclopedia of Sports Medicine which you can download and read for free if you sign up at  (which is a free site with all kinds of e-books).



> Have you ever wondered why people with a skinny physique like Manny Pacquiao can KO fighters who have ripped, weight lifter, physiques?


As I said, because of the low external and frictional resistance involved in throwing a strike there is a very small time frame in which the muscles can develop force. 

The reason a larger muscle might not generate as much power is basically due to the size principle. Source

In brief, when a muscle contracts the motor units of the muscle will contract in order of smallest (weakest) to largest (strongest). With higher motor unit synchronization or higher motor unit firing rate the stronger motor units can be recruited in a shorter period of time resulting in greater rate of force development. 

This is why a smaller muscle can out perform a larger muscle in power development. It is not a sign that muscle development is unimportant, it is a sign that both muscle development and neuromuscular training are important, with the emphasis being on neuromuscular training the lighter the external resistance.



> Technique is power.


 That is false to the point of being absurd.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 9, 2011)

Law said:


> Machida gonna knock Jones out by head-butting him in the fist, elbows and knees too many times?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get what people don't like about this kid.



Machida is a man. Jones is a kid. 

Machida is just too good to lose.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm indifferent about Bones at the moment. The only LHWs I will always root against him in a fight for are Shogun, Hendo, and Machida.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 9, 2011)

I like Jones myself, I just like Machida a lot more. 

Any other fight I'd probably be rooting for Jones (except for maybe Hendo).


----------



## Tiger (Dec 9, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Machida is a man. Jones is a kid.
> 
> Machida is just too good to lose.



I recall Machida losing. Were my eyes and mind lying to me this whole time?

And I don't think you should be using the second argument against Jones. Anyone has a chance to win, but if anyone's currently showing that he's "too good to lose", I don't think it's Machida.

Ever since he fought Bader, I wanted Jones to be the champ. Now that he is, I don't see him losing it for a while. The fact that he's a "kid" makes it even more awesome, not less.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 9, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Yeh, well, who knows. Hitting Machida with a counter is not that easy as he's pretty conservative when it comes to throwing the first shot. Again, that lead left he threw at Shogun was a glaring exception and he paid pretty dearly for it. Not saying Machida has all his shit figured out, but I think he has enough tools to give Jones some problems at any rate.



If you really think Machida will give JBJ problems, lets sig bet on it.

But, you won't, as you have zero belief in your own words.  

I would say Machida is easy to hit if you know how to hit him.  Like say if you wanted him to throw the left hand.  You could carry your right hand low to make him think there was an opening there.  You could circle to your left.  There are lots of things you could do to bait someone like him into doing exactly what you wanted them to.  Then, maybe, practice a lot of counters from a position where a southpaw is throwing the left hand knowing Machida drops his hands leaving himself open.  -shrug-  There are ways to capitalize on things...

Jones has a long reach and excellent wrestling which makes things even easier for him...



Gallic Rush said:


> I never even mentioned weight training.
> 
> Incidentally though, training to increase punching power could include traditional weight training. It is widely accepted in the field of sports physiology that power can be increased through traditional weight lifting. Although it is not usually a good idea to use weight lifting exclusively.



There's a reason why pure weight lifters and power lifters like Mariusz Pudzianowski don't necessarily excel at combat sports...

While weight lifting can play a role in strengthening joints and increasing the power of a person's punches, the role it can play within the grand scheme of things is small in comparison to technique, posture, timing, and other factors.



Gallic Rush said:


> The difference between maximum force and maximum rate of force development is a thoroughly researched topic and with a wide consensus among sports scientists. I have a mountain of evidence I could hit you with right here, but for now I'll just refer you to Strength and Power in Sport: Olympic Encyclopedia of Sports Medicine which you can download and read for free if you sign up at  (which is a free site with all kinds of e-books).



"Strength and Power" is a very broad and vague heading.

There are completely different schools of training and preparation for sports like power lifting and boxing or kickboxing.



Gallic Rush said:


> As I said, because of the low external and frictional resistance involved in throwing a strike there is a very small time frame in which the muscles can develop force.
> 
> The reason a larger muscle might not generate as much power is basically due to the size principle. Source
> 
> ...



In terms of striking it has exceedingly little to do with muscle group performance and moreso to do with technique and how a person trains.  Likewise, internal vs external resistance has near zero to do with it.

In ideal terms its a coordinated effort between muscle groups.  But, it has much more to do with a person's timing in terms of when they turn their hips into a punch, and how effective they are at shifting their weight & other factors.  

It also has a lot to do with their body posture and how someone trains, etc.



Gallic Rush said:


> That is false to the point of being absurd.



In terms of power, technique is everything.  

There are people like Forrest Griffin who don't commit to their strikes or turn their hips into their punches and thus are not known for KO'ing people and people like Leonard Garcia who throw their entire body into every punch and kick their deliver.

The technique a person uses with their striking is the single most important factor that determines how much damage they can inflict.

Things like motor unit power are far less significant than technique.


----------



## Ippy (Dec 9, 2011)

I've said this multiple times on Sherdog.

Machida doesn't have the skills, speed, physical gifts, nor style to defeat Jones.

To defeat Jones, you need someone who is fast enough to move on the inside without taking too many shots to get there, isn't afraid of moving on the inside, is godly in the clinch, is fast enough to tag him multiple times and get out of range, and has unheard of TDD.

Ask anyone who's taken a full contact striking art, you DO NOT fight someone taller with a significant reach advantage from the outside.  It's actually considered _stupid_.  Machida's whole style (counter striker who likes to work from the outside) is tailor-made for Jones to exploit.  By the time Machida gets a handle on his timing, and how fast he'll need to be in order to utilize it, he'll have already lost the first couple of rounds.

This is going to be a massacre, and it makes me happy that Jones has so many (irrational) haters.  They are going to be disappointed.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 9, 2011)

Damn, Bones got booed pretty hard. 

Most of the people I'm going to see UFC 140 with are fans of him, I wasn't expecting the boos to be that loud.


----------



## Tiger (Dec 10, 2011)

Damn skippy, Ippy.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 10, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> If you really think Machida will give JBJ problems, lets sig bet on it.
> 
> But, you won't, as you have zero belief in your own words.



Pfft, I'll take that bet. It's not like losing a sig bet means jackshit, this is a forum you silly kid!



> I would say Machida is easy to hit if you know how to hit him.  Like say if you wanted him to throw the left hand.  You could carry your right hand low to make him think there was an opening there.  You could circle to your left.  There are lots of things you could do to bait someone like him into doing exactly what you wanted them to.  Then, maybe, practice a lot of counters from a position where a southpaw is throwing the left hand knowing Machida drops his hands leaving himself open.  -shrug-  There are ways to capitalize on things...
> 
> Jones has a long reach and excellent wrestling which makes things even easier for him...


Enough talking! I bet Machida is going to win the fight (I think he's got like 25% chance actually, but that's good enough for me).




> There's a reason why pure weight lifters and power lifters like Mariusz Pudzianowski don't necessarily excel at combat sports...
> 
> While weight lifting can play a role in strengthening joints and increasing the power of a person's punches, the role it can play within the grand scheme of things is small in comparison to technique, posture, timing, and other factors.


See, now you're back tracking. Now you're conceding that weight lifting can play a role in increasing power (which is confirmed by a mountain of evidence), but now you're saying it's relatively unimportant. You're also including other things that weren't a part of your original argument like "timing" and "other factors." I am aware that if you do not have the right timing you will not hit your intended target, and all the power in the world will have been useless. However, my point had never been that timing is unimportant, that is something you just made up. I am simply talking about how power is generated. Getting that power to hit a target is a different discussion.



> "Strength and Power" is a very broad and vague heading.


In layman's terms strength and power are used quite liberally. But in sports physiology they are technical terms and are actually very specific to the point where both can be measured and quantified mathematically. 



> There are completely different schools of training and preparation for sports like power lifting and boxing or kickboxing.


I don't know if you're purposely trying to mischaracterize my point, but I never said powerlifting training should be done for boxing or kickboxing. I think I was quite clear in saying that it is a part of the training regime. One of the sources I posted even says as much (the one about combined strength and speed training, if you had bothered to read it).


> In terms of striking it has exceedingly little to do with muscle group performance and moreso to do with technique and how a person trains.  Likewise, internal vs external resistance has near zero to do with it.
> 
> In ideal terms its a coordinated effort between muscle groups.  But, it has much more to do with a person's timing in terms of when they turn their hips into a punch, and how effective they are at shifting their weight & other factors.
> 
> It also has a lot to do with their body posture and how someone trains, etc.


By this reasoning Floyd Mayweather Jr. ought to be able to punch harder than Shane Carwin because Carwin has poorer technique and almost certainly does not train his punches on the level that Mayweather does.

Muscles have a lot to do with the equation. Aside from that being common sense it is ratified by the aforementioned mountain of evidence from the sports physiology community.



> In terms of power, technique is everything.



I feel like I'm explaining to a creationist that the world is much older than 6000 years.



> There are people like Forrest Griffin who don't commit to their strikes or turn their hips into their punches and thus are not known for KO'ing people and people like Leonard Garcia who throw their entire body into every punch and kick their deliver.
> 
> The technique a person uses with their striking is the single most important factor that determines how much damage they can inflict.
> 
> Things like motor unit power are far less significant than technique.


Your examples rely on circular reasoning. The only reasoning you have for Griffin's punches being weaker as a result of a lack of technique is your previous assertion that technique is everything. You have introduced no new evidence at all.

I, on the other hand, have given at least a few sources that completely contradict what you have said and they have gone unaddressed.

You have a nice day, buddy.


----------



## Tiger (Dec 10, 2011)

After this fight, haters will still say Jones hasn't been tested.

That's my prediction.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 10, 2011)

btw, dude who wanted to do the tito vs nog bet, im up for it.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 10, 2011)

^That wasn't me, but I got Tito winning, what about you?


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 10, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> ^That wasn't me, but I got Tito winning, what about you?



I would take Nogueria.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 10, 2011)

Ok, what's the bet for?


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 10, 2011)

it's a sig bet.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 10, 2011)

Jones kind of a prick... but I think he's gonna win. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised and Machida wins, but I just don't see how. Even if he did, I have a feeling it would be a boring win by way of points.

Same feelings towards Mir/Big Nog. Mir is a dick, but I feel he's probably gonna be too much for Nogueira.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 10, 2011)

K, whatever. I'm sticking with Ortiz on this. Mostly because I think if he really needs to he can take lil Nog down at will.


----------



## LouDAgreat (Dec 10, 2011)

lol, Hominick... that was embarrassing. losing In front of the home crowd like that.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 10, 2011)

Holy SHIT what a fight.

EDIT: Goes to show you can't count a killer out ever. So many people saying Jung had nothing in the stand up on Hominick (frankly I was agreeing with that sentiment).


----------



## eHav (Dec 10, 2011)

well when you rush in face first, it doesnt matter how good your stand up is when you get clobered in the face xD it was a really bad move


----------



## mootz (Dec 10, 2011)

links anyone, plox


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 10, 2011)

Tito got a strong chin but a glass rib cage -.-


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 10, 2011)

mootz said:


> links anyone, plox



Bear against the villagers lost the family 10 year


----------



## Mr NiceGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

_Is anyone doing pay pal bets?_


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 10, 2011)

I was really rooting for Tito here. He's a tough guy. He's matured a lot recently.

Also, I thought Claude Patrick did enough to win, but it was a close fight.


----------



## Mr NiceGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

_My god that was a great fight._


----------



## Mr NiceGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

_OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG._


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 10, 2011)

Big Nog had the fucking TKO, WHY didn't he keep punching? Jesus Christ. He had that and threw it all away by trying for a choke he was never gonna get.


----------



## Caedus (Dec 10, 2011)

that was fucking incredible. hahahahaah


----------



## Mr NiceGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

_HAHAHAHAHA AT THE NOG._


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 10, 2011)

Really, though. Frank Mir was just laying there for a few seconds, if Nog had just kept punching Dean would've stopped it. At least, that's what I think.


----------



## Early (Dec 10, 2011)

Mir popped that shit


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 10, 2011)

Ugh, that fucking ARM.

EDIT: I was amazed at how fast Nog's hands were. I was sure Mir was better on the ground, but I had no idea he'd get clowned that badly on the feet.


----------



## eHav (Dec 10, 2011)

ouch... frank "tapout or ill break your arm" mir


----------



## Shadow (Dec 10, 2011)

OMG Noguiera broken arm was holy shit.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 10, 2011)

Some Brazilians are too tough for their own good. Reminds me of Sakuraba taking Gracie arms back in the day.


----------



## LouDAgreat (Dec 10, 2011)

That was nasty. I couldn't move my arm after watching the replays.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 10, 2011)

How is Jones more experienced than Machida? Machida has been fighting since 2003. Jones has only fought since 2008. Talent doesn't equal experience...

Joe Rogan, man...


----------



## eHav (Dec 10, 2011)

good fight so far

damn jones throws one elbow and cuts machida right away.


JON MOTHERFUCKING JONES! STANDING GUILLOTINE


----------



## Early (Dec 10, 2011)

WOW HE COLLAPSED, JONES IS JUST TOO MUCH, DRAGON SLAYED


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 10, 2011)

What the fuck


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 10, 2011)

Damn, knew Jones was the superior grappler, was really hoping his chin was glass. Machida tagged him more than once.


----------



## Mr NiceGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

_Fuck I hate that Jones._


----------



## Caedus (Dec 10, 2011)

Jones is a MONSTER


----------



## Early (Dec 10, 2011)

Feel a little bad for Machida. He looked good, he was fighting his fight, but Jones is just that strong and talented he overcame it. he just changed things with one strike.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 10, 2011)

The LHW division is slowly becoming what Anderson Silva turned the MW division into...


----------



## Zieg (Dec 10, 2011)

Machida nooooooooo!  

Bonnar will avenge the dragon just you wait!


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 10, 2011)

Zieg said:


> Machida nooooooooo!
> 
> Bonnar will avenge the dragon just you wait!



lolwut?

I think Bonnar is better than people give him credit for, but that fight is not happening.


----------



## LovesToSpooge (Dec 10, 2011)

great card tonight, pretty violent to be honest.

two awesome comebacks in mir and jones' victories.

jones 

shogun, rashad, machida. most difficulty in total out of all 3 came from a couple good punches by machida. jones is god.

what a fucking epic win.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 10, 2011)

You mean Rampage, not Rashad. The Rashad fight still needs to happen.

Frankly, when it does, I think we're finally going to see someone that has wrestling on par with what Jones has (probably a little better, even).


----------



## eHav (Dec 10, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> You mean Rampage, not Rashad. The Rashad fight still needs to happen.
> 
> Frankly, when it does, I think we're finally going to see someone that has wrestling on par with what Jones has (probably a little better, even).



and that is leagues behind on the standup, so jones should win. and then what? who else is there to give him a good fight? he already beat the top guys.. has to be some agressive striker that can clinch and not get taken down at will, machida was backing up jones a lot when he went on the offensive


----------



## LovesToSpooge (Dec 10, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> You mean Rampage, not Rashad. The Rashad fight still needs to happen.
> 
> Frankly, when it does, I think we're finally going to see someone that has wrestling on par with what Jones has (probably a little better, even).



whoops you're right.

re: rashad, it does need to happen. it will...i think jones is really going to be up for it after tonight's result.

i mean who else can he really fight in the semi-near future? henderson?
either way, jones is one hell of an entertainer in his own right. its so crazy to think he's only been doing this for a few years.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 10, 2011)

Hendo would be a challenge, he's durable and has the knockout power to finish a fight in an instant. Just has to work on the cardio and sub defense.

Maybe Phil Davis? Gegard Mousasi?

Also, Thiago Silva just because he's kewl.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 11, 2011)

Man, the ACC was so loud tonight. After KZ knocked out the Machine, everyone was going off, lol. 

Big Nog... I'm so sad right now. He had that fight but let his ego get the better of him, and then Mir pulls a Big Nog. Was as bad as Gonzaga Cro Copping Cro Cop.

Not surprised by the main event. Apparently 2 judges had Jones winning the first round (the hell...). Machida was getting the better of the stand-up and at least we know Bones doesn't have a glass chin. 

Machida stood by his word. "I will die, but not tap." True warrior, and will always love him. 

Bones isn't going to lose to anyone in this division (a lucky Hendo right hand is the only way). I wonder who Tito's last fight will be. He said he wants a rubber match with Forrest not too long ago.


----------



## mootz (Dec 11, 2011)

great fights (the ones I saw)


----------



## JonnyCake (Dec 11, 2011)

I am happy to hear flyweights coming to UFC. Going to be some exciting fights coming from that division.


----------



## Ippy (Dec 11, 2011)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

TOLD YA


----------



## Mori` (Dec 11, 2011)

What is it with Canadians and getting knocked out in under 10 seconds?

war Zombie =)


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Ippy said:


> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> TOLD YA



DURR HURR MACHIDA WOULD NEVER GET TO JONES, JONES REACH IS TOO LONG, HE WOULD PICK MACHIDA APART FROM A DISTANCE. :rofl

See this is why I hate MMA as a sport. It's composed of a fanbase that is so shameless, they will predict something that is not happening but end up being "right", because their dude won.

Reminds you of those chumps that claimed Slva would "embarrass" Sonnen and do a Forrest on him and once that hailmary sub happened "TOLD YOU SO".

Especially troubling when a guy with solid intelligence like Haterade falls for it.

Seriously dude, are you not ashamed to pretend "U TOLD US SO" when this fight completely proved you wrong?

Also, JJ 90% retiring as LHW GOAT, current P4P #1 (lol fuck Anderson) and chance to retire as P4P GOAT.


As for Mir, I guess this shows how "Mir would beat Nog in his prime, out of his prime, before his prime etc.."  Loss or not, staph did apparently matter.

Oh and poor Herb Dean. After Hendo vs Fedor - EARLY STOPPAGE. After Mir - Nog, MAN WHY U NO STOPPAGE.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Honestly though, how could ANYONE root for a guy like Jones?  I mean the guy is supported by the worst vermin that this fanbase could possibly offer. Don't really care for his personality and I don't see why him dropping Lyoto is a big deal. Jackson saying "Go check on Lyoto, get some fans." however...


----------



## Krauser-tan (Dec 11, 2011)

I completely agree with Aokiji. I like Jones, but some of his fans need a reality check.

Is he hella good? yes he is

But that doesn't mean he can trash a guy like Machida. Machida is no pushover. His striking and evade techniques looked awesome in round 1, probably the best i've seen from him. However, Machida's cardio might need some work. I think his cardio is what prevents him to, say, give shogun or Jones a run for their money. He looked more spent than Jones in round 2, by a good margin i'd say.

However, Machida was not embarassed like so many retards wanted, he fought like a warriror, lost to a better one, no shame on that because unlike his fight against shogun, i saw no fear on Machida. 


Congratulations to Jones, who was pretty classy post-fight. Some of his fans should learn from him.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Honestly this fight wasn't even so one-sided. It was competitive until Machida got caught and subbed. Jones performance wasn't any more impressive than Shoguns. And we all saw what Jones did to Shogun.  

Also lol at Sherdog calling Mir the best BJJ fighter in MMA. :rofl

Maybe most dangerous submission guy. Overall? Hahahahahahahahahaha.

And I think that fight against Nog proved how the likes of Mir would fare in PRIDE.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 11, 2011)

Jones has no control over his fans, it's kind of petty to hold that against him.

This on the other hand might be a better reason: Bear against the villagers lost the family 10 year


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Jones has no control over his fans, it's kind of petty to hold that against him.
> 
> This on the other hand might be a better reason: Bear against the villagers lost the family 10 year



I don't hold it against him. I think he is a well raised kid, who just comes off as corny and fake and not very likable, but not many people have natural charisma. 

But I will root against fighters if people, who would potentially gain pleasure from his success, are maggots.


In other news, i wonder if PRIDE haters are going to shut up about Mir being soo much better than Nog.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 11, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> I don't hold it against him. I think he is a well raised kid, who just comes off as corny and fake and not very likable, but not many people have natural charisma.
> 
> But I will root against fighters if people, who would potentially gain pleasure from his success, are maggots.
> 
> ...





Doubt it.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Doubt it.



Mir got faceplanted by a shot 35 year old Nogueira. 

That is more decisive than Mir winning against Nog, which was expected anyway.


Also, the LHW picture IMO:

Jones
Evans
Hendo
Shogun
Machida
Rampage

Don't care about the rest.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 11, 2011)

Almost winning is more decisive than actually winning?


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Almost winning is more decisive than actually winning?



Yes.

Especially if it destroy s a silly little theory as "Mir is just better than Nog, deal with it, UFC > PRIDE. Lol u fanboys are just making excuses with the staph thing, Nog is just that slow and doesn't stand a chance standing"



Yeah, thats why he Mir got wrestlefucked by Nog of all people and got faceplanted. Nog almost winning against Mir is more decisive in disproving the part that I put in quotation marks, than Mir actually winning against Nogueira is in proving it.

In essence, certain people got embarrassed but they like to hide behind their win as it changes anything.


----------



## Early (Dec 11, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Honestly though, how could ANYONE root for a guy like Jones?  I mean the guy is supported by the worst vermin that this fanbase could possibly offer. Don't really care for his personality and I don't see why him dropping Lyoto is a big deal. Jackson saying "Go check on Lyoto, get some fans." however...




Discrediting a fighter because of his fanbase is pretty dumb. Fans always say dumb, exaggerated shit about the fighters, or teams they like. There was a number of people who overhyped Machida, said he would not lose in a looooooooooong time. A more understandable reason would be to dislike Jones because of what he has done to a lot of former champions who people used to like, some of them from pride. No fighter is unbeatable, otherwise their fights would never be competitive at all. But Jones deserves the credit for what hes done, hate his fans all you want, but the fighter can only control what he does.


----------



## Ippy (Dec 11, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> DURR HURR MACHIDA WOULD NEVER GET TO JONES, JONES REACH IS TOO LONG, HE WOULD PICK MACHIDA APART FROM A DISTANCE. :rofl
> 
> See this is why I hate MMA as a sport. It's composed of a fanbase that is so shameless, they will predict something that is not happening but end up being "right", because their dude won.
> 
> ...




I'll cover your entire post in my reply to Joestar...



Krauser Joestar said:


> I completely agree with Aokiji. I like Jones, but some of his fans need a reality check.
> 
> Is he hella good? yes he is
> 
> ...


FightMetric says... 

Jones landed more significant strikes, had a higher significant strikes percentage, and landed the only successful takedown of the fight.  He was even outstriking Machida during the round many people claim that Machida "won"...

Despite the perceptions of how well Machida dealt with Bones, the statistics say people are _wrong_.  Period.

And for the sheer amount of butthurt Bones brings to the MMA masses, I am going to gloat, and there's _not a goddamn damn thing anyone can do about it._


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Early said:


> Discrediting a fighter because of his fanbase is pretty dumb. Fans always say dumb, exaggerated shit about the fighters, or teams they like. There was a number of people who overhyped Machida, said he would not lose in a looooooooooong time. A more understandable reason would be to dislike Jones because of what he has done to a lot of former champions who people used to like, some of them from pride. No fighter is unbeatable, otherwise their fights would never be competitive at all. But Jones deserves the credit for what hes done, hate his fans all you want, but the fighter can only control what he does.



Keep strawmanning.



Ippy said:


> I'll cover your entire post in my reply to Joestar...
> 
> FightMetric says...
> 
> ...



Pretty sure they landed the same amount of strikes, significant or not.

I considered Machida to have won the round because he staggered Jones. 

I mean wouldn't it be more intelligent if you actually READ that FM report before you use it to prove your point?

Also, for a guy who warned me for trolling, you are sure acting your best shertard impression. 

Where was Jones reach when he lost a round/drew, Haterade? You were proven wrong, as your prediction was a little bit more specific than "Jones gonna win". That is the issue. You thought he would get picked apart from the distance.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Haterade, you in for some bet? If Overeem beats Brock, I am going to wear an MMA related set of your choice. (no gay porn, srsly) If i win....you're gonna rock a Sonnen set. :ho 1 week.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 11, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Yes.
> 
> Especially if it destroy s a silly little theory as "Mir is just better than Nog, deal with it, UFC > PRIDE. Lol u fanboys are just making excuses with the staph thing, Nog is just that slow and doesn't stand a chance standing"
> 
> ...


So, he didn't lose in the way that he was supposed to and that is a moral victory or something? He still got his arm snapped...

I mean, I would think if anything being the first guy to submit Minotauro would be the bigger accomplishment than being the 6th guy to knock down Mir.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> So, he didn't lose in the way that he was supposed to and that is a moral victory or something? He still got his arm snapped...
> 
> I mean, I would think if anything being the first guy to submit Minotauro would be the bigger accomplishment than being the 6th guy to knock down Mir.



.........

PEOPLE SAID THAT THE STAPH THING WAS JUST AN EXCUSE. THEY CLAIMED THAT MIR IS JUST THAT MUCH BETTER THAN HIM WHEN THIS FIGHT PROVED THAT IT WASN'T SO.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 11, 2011)

I guess.

I still think winning less impressively than you were supposed to is better than losing less horrifically than you were supposed to.

That said, I do think Noguiera looked faster and sharper on his feet than he ever has before, and that includes his KO over Brendan Schnoob.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 11, 2011)

Wow, Greg Jackson is a loser. Get some fans? Really?


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> I guess.
> 
> I still think winning less impressively than you were supposed to is better than losing less horrifically than you were supposed to.
> 
> That said, I do think Noguiera looked faster and sharper on his feet than he ever has before, and that includes his KO over Brendan Schnoob.



Hehehe.

I am sure that Nog would rather be in Mir's shoes than his own.

But I want people who make outlandish statements to know that they were proven wrong.


----------



## Mori` (Dec 11, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Wow, Greg Jackson is a loser. Get some fans? Really?



Why's he a loser? He runs an awesome camp and is PR savvy. Just needs to not say it when the cameras are able to hear =p


----------



## Ippy (Dec 11, 2011)

Are you people serious?  Greg Jackson was all jokes.

He _knows _how the hardcore MMA community has irrational hatred towards Bones, and how other fighters get major brownie points with them just for shaking hands after the fight, yet Jones can say nothing but nice things about his opponent before a fight, give reasonable analyses about other fights, and stop a mugger before the biggest fight of his life, and yet people claim he's "fake", "arrogant", and "cocky"...

They damn sure can't talk about his _skills_, so they're forced to go reaching for the fabricated and imaginary.

It is simultaneously sad and funny.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Ippy said:


> Are you people serious?  Greg Jackson was all jokes.
> 
> He _knows _how the hardcore MMA community has irrational hatred towards Bones, and how other fighters get major brownie points with them just for shaking hands after the fight, yet Jones can say nothing but nice things about his opponent before a fight, give reasonable analyses about other fights, and stop a mugger before the biggest fight of his life, and yet people claim he's "fake", "arrogant", and "cocky"...
> 
> ...



Maybe you do not possess the emotional intelligence that would be required to understand why they dislike him. 

Btw, how does his humble pie personality work with his retarded antics during a fight? Starting like a monkey on all fours, that takedown toss against rampage...etc

I think people should stop being so butthurt that the MMA community at large doesn't like their idol.

He may be a better person than many, but those don't come off like a douchebag as much as he does. And that kind of lack of charisma is going to make people dislike him.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Dec 11, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Maybe you do not possess the emotional intelligence that would be required to understand why they dislike him.
> 
> Btw, how does his humble pie personality work with his retarded antics during a fight? Starting like a monkey on all fours, that takedown toss against rampage...etc
> 
> ...


What makes Jones come off as a douchebag? I don't really see anything wrong with Jones's personality. He's a dominant fighter and thats pretty much it. What else does he need to do? Be a cocky bastard to get some fans?


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

TheGreatOne said:


> What makes Jones come off as a douchebag? I don't really see anything wrong with Jones's personality. He's a dominant fighter and thats pretty much it. What else does he need to do? Be a cocky bastard to get some fans?



No tell his fans to stop bleeding out of their asshole that not everyone likes him.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 11, 2011)

Looking back at it, I feel like there were some early murmurings of hate when Jones first started getting recognition, sometime around the Hamill fight I would say. At the time the thing I remember was people were annoyed with him being another Jesus freak (as if half the fighters in the UFC don't thank Jesus after every fight).

Where I think he really got shit was being so confident he would beat Shogun and then actually doing it. I feel like people resent him for tearing down their idol in such devastating fashion.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Looking back at it, I feel like there were some early murmurings of hate when Jones first started getting recognition, sometime around the Hamill fight I would say. At the time the thing I remember was people were annoyed with him being another Jesus freak (as if half the fighters in the UFC don't thank Jesus after every fight).
> 
> Where I think he really got shit was being so confident he would beat Shogun and then actually doing it. *I feel like people resent him for tearing down their idol in such devastating fashion*.



I feel this is the stupidest argument that has ever existed. How would a fighter doing his job elicit hate? JDS also smashed alot of people that are idolized but nobody gives a shit. 

This "people hate Jones cuz he wins" is bullshit. It is typically what selfabsorbed JJ fanturds want to believe. in reality though, that is mindbogglingly stupid. 

GSP beat Hughes twice and made it look pretty easy too. Nobody hates him, if they do, it's cuz he's "boring".

Rampage destroyed Chuck twice, didn't stop people from rooting for him when he fought Bonesy. 


People hate JJ cuz he's a douche. And no, not being Nick Diaz doesn't mean that you aren't one. He is not likable.

Why do people care so much about that though? He's winning. That's what really matters.


----------



## Matariki (Dec 11, 2011)

Hendo vs Jones, make it happen Dana. Evans can wait


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Seiko said:


> Hendo vs Jones, make it happen Dana. Evans can wait



Lol at anyone believing that Hendo has anything for Jones. 

Machida was the man to do it. Rashad has an outside chance.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 11, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> I feel this is the stupidest argument that has ever existed. How would a fighter doing his job elicit hate?



Uh, it happens all the time? See below for details:



> JDS also smashed alot of people that are idolized but nobody gives a shit.



Plenty of Mexicans hated on JDS for doing his job with Velasquez. And JDS is a way nicer guy than Jones and he still got booed at every press conference, the weigh ins, and the fight itself (even after he won).



> This "people hate Jones cuz he wins" is bullshit. It is typically what selfabsorbed JJ fanturds want to believe. in reality though, that is mindbogglingly stupid.


I said people (by which I mean Shogun fans) hate him because he beat Shogun's ass, not for winning in general. Not saying every person in the world hates Jones for that reason either because not everyone is a Shogun fanboy. 



> GSP beat Hughes twice and made it look pretty easy too. Nobody hates him, if they do, it's cuz he's "boring".



Yeah, I'm not saying that my point applies to every fighter that ever existed. I realize there are different reasons people hate certain fighters.



> Rampage destroyed Chuck twice, didn't stop people from rooting for him when he fought Bonesy.


Terrible example because a lot of Chuck fans hate both Rampage and especially Rashad for knocking out Liddell. I have actually talked to people that blamed Rashad for destroying Liddell's chin; so, I know that at least SOME people hate guys that destroy their hero.



> People hate JJ cuz he's a douche. And no, not being Nick Diaz doesn't mean that you aren't one. He is not likable.


Yeah, I get that SOME people hate him because they think he's a douche. Just like SOME people hate him for mentioning God every other sentence. There's room for all kinds of hatred to co-exist peacefully (oddly enough).



> Why do people care so much about that though? He's winning. That's what really matters.


I dunno, you seemed to freak out a whole lot about it. I was making an observation and you tried to pick apart what I said like it was this crazy, retard statement.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 11, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Lol at anyone believing that Hendo has anything for Jones.
> 
> Machida was the man to do it. Rashad has an outside chance.



I think Rashad has more than an outside chance. He should be the better wrestler, which will be a first for Jones. So, unless he gets Sonnen'd he should be able to pull off a decision or maybe even a TKO.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Whatever, there are alot of weird people in the world, sure that some do what you said.

Thing is though, on an objective basis, Jones seems to be more hated than the likes of Rashad and Rampage even though both destroyed an idolized fighter. So "HE BEAT SHOGUN" doesn't explain it.

Also, did people really HATE on Rashad for that?  

Btw guys, mind replying to my thread in the OBD?


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 11, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> I think Rashad has more than an outside chance. He should be the better wrestler, which will be a first for Jones. So, unless he gets Sonnen'd he should be able to pull off a decision or maybe even a TKO.



Rashad like to setup his TDs with strikes, which is a bad idea against JJ. Wrestlers like Brock and Chael don't bother with that shit, but he needs good distance.

And I dunno, he is just outclassed on his feet so much that in will be a problem. Also, this guy can slap on chokes pretty easily.

But I dunno, he has a good chance cuz he knows him, I feel Jones ducked him, maybe Jones would like to delay fighting him again until he has changed enough or Rashad forgets how it was dealing with him.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 11, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Whatever, there are alot of weird people in the world, sure that some do what you said.
> 
> Thing is though, on an objective basis, Jones seems to be more hated than the likes of Rashad and Rampage even though both destroyed an idolized fighter. So "HE BEAT SHOGUN" doesn't explain it.
> 
> ...


I distinctly remember Rampage getting booed to shit when he fought Liddell. Before and after the fight. And that's with Rampage already having his own fanbase from PRIDE fights. Can't remember the Rashad fight, but I'm sure they booed his black ass too.

Hmmm... Rampage, Rashad, and Jones. All black....

YOU RACISTS!



Aokiji said:


> Rashad like to setup his TDs with strikes, which is a bad idea against JJ. Wrestlers like Brock and Chael don't bother with that shit, but he needs good distance.
> 
> And I dunno, he is just outclassed on his feet so much that in will be a problem. Also, this guy can slap on chokes pretty easily.
> 
> But I dunno, he has a good chance cuz he knows him, I feel Jones ducked him, maybe Jones would like to delay fighting him again until he has changed enough or Rashad forgets how it was dealing with him.



He trained with Jones so he should have a better idea than anyone going in how to set up his takedowns. Rashad could always get caught on the outside, but I would be surprised if Jones handles him in the wrestling like he did to say, Bader or Hamill. I think Jones and Rashad are both on another level as far as wrestling goes, but in very different ways.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 12, 2011)

Mir vs Nog was pretty damn crazy. Who knew Mir would submit Nog on the mat (I think someone in here said it, but not gonna name any names )?

I was disappointed that Machida lost, but at least he made Jones work for it in the first round.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 12, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Pfft, I'll take that bet. It's not like losing a sig bet means jackshit, this is a forum you silly kid!



I never said sigs were important.

Only that I doubt those who say things on internet forums believe what they're saying enough to wager on it.



Gallic Rush said:


> Enough talking! I bet Machida is going to win the fight (I think he's got like 25% chance actually, but that's good enough for me).



Well, he didn't win, unfortunately.

He landed punches due to his ability to cover ground quickly and get inside.  But, no dice.  :/



Gallic Rush said:


> See, now you're back tracking. Now you're conceding that weight lifting can play a role in increasing power (which is confirmed by a mountain of evidence), but now you're saying it's relatively unimportant. You're also including other things that weren't a part of your original argument like "timing" and "other factors." I am aware that if you do not have the right timing you will not hit your intended target, and all the power in the world will have been useless. However, my point had never been that timing is unimportant, that is something you just made up. I am simply talking about how power is generated. Getting that power to hit a target is a different discussion.



Punching with KO power isn't as simple as lifting weights, or developing muscle strength.  If it were that simple, everyone would have one punch KO power.

Despite the wealth of strength and conditioning and other assorted knowledge available, most fighters do not manage to develop impressive knockout power.

Its about technique and a quality of training that is difficult to quantify.

Its not simply a matter of lifting weights, developing muscles, taking supplements or any simplistic textbook format of muscle development.



Gallic Rush said:


> In layman's terms strength and power are used quite liberally. But in sports physiology they are technical terms and are actually very specific to the point where both can be measured and quantified mathematically.



If it could be quantified and reproduced it should be possible to teach any fighter at mw to punch with Vitor Belfort power.

That's not the case.  There are specific and difficult to quantify differences between Mike Tyson throwing a punch and Kyle Kingsbury throwing a punch.  It isn't something that can be broken down to a simplistic matter of muscle strength or weight lifting.  "Quantifying" simple variables like speed, mass or force doesn't tell you precisely how such things are achieved or even what the best means of achieving them are.

If we clock a kickboxers kicks at 70 miles per hour, that doesn't tell us what the best technique for throwing a kick is, or what the best training methods to achieve devasting power are.  That part of the equation is unknown.

The context of such things being labeled "quantified" is bullshit, really.



Gallic Rush said:


> I don't know if you're purposely trying to mischaracterize my point, but I never said powerlifting training should be done for boxing or kickboxing. I think I was quite clear in saying that it is a part of the training regime. One of the sources I posted even says as much (the one about combined strength and speed training, if you had bothered to read it).
> 
> By this reasoning Floyd Mayweather Jr. ought to be able to punch harder than Shane Carwin because Carwin has poorer technique and almost certainly does not train his punches on the level that Mayweather does.
> 
> Muscles have a lot to do with the equation. Aside from that being common sense it is ratified by the aforementioned mountain of evidence from the sports physiology community.



According to "sport science" Gray Maynard hits as hard as James Toney.

[YOUTUBE]Duki86cPadw[/YOUTUBE]

Ok...  what now?



Gallic Rush said:


> I feel like I'm explaining to a creationist that the world is much older than 6000 years.



Haha.  Someones getting ahead of themselves.



Gallic Rush said:


> Your examples rely on circular reasoning. The only reasoning you have for Griffin's punches being weaker as a result of a lack of technique is your previous assertion that technique is everything. You have introduced no new evidence at all.
> 
> I, on the other hand, have given at least a few sources that completely contradict what you have said and they have gone unaddressed.
> 
> You have a nice day, buddy.



Are you disagreeing with me that Griffins punches are proportionally weaker due to the technique he uses?  Rather than dodge around and pretend you're making some accurate point, can you be direct and try to post something resembling a straight & honest answer for a change?  d:

You haven't posted anything that specifically addresses striking in boxing, kickboxing, or MMA.

Only vague and unspecific things relating to conditioning that are vague and unsubstantial enough to apply to powerlifting as well as discus throwing and any number of areas which have absolutely nothing to do with the topic.



Violent By Design said:


> btw, dude who wanted to do the tito vs nog bet, im up for it.



I wasn't going to accept this, because you were so late with it.  

If Gallic Rush accepts his sig bet on Machida, I'll accept yours.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 12, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> He landed punches due to his ability to cover ground quickly and get inside.  But, no dice.  :/


Yeah, that was a brutal choke. But I always knew Machida's "black belt" was so overrated. Getting caught in a triangle by Ortiz was the first red flag.



> Punching with KO power isn't as simple as lifting weights, or developing muscle strength.  If it were that simple, everyone would have one punch KO power. Despite the wealth of strength and conditioning and other assorted knowledge available, most fighters do not manage to develop impressive knockout power.


 That is due to genetic limitation, which does not invalidate my point. In any event, increasing from your baseline level of physical ability is possible for everyone that is healthy and able to train, even if that increase is going to be modest because of your genetics.



> Its about technique and a quality of training that is difficult to quantify.
> 
> Its not simply a matter of lifting weights, developing muscles, taking supplements or any simplistic textbook format of muscle development.


First of all, you are still presenting no new information, despite that fact that I have already debunked most of your nonsense with peer reviewed literature.

Second, I never said it was only a matter of lifting weights. Lifting weights is a part, *and only a part* of the training that should be proscribed. You're basically framing the discussion in a way that suggests you either do only weight lifting or only technique training. There is time enough in the day for both.



> If it could be quantified and reproduced it should be possible to teach any fighter at mw to punch with Vitor Belfort power.
> 
> That's not the case.


 You're making up arguments. I said the variables could be quantified, but I never said they could be reproduced in every other athlete. I am well aware that not everyone can become an elite athlete because of their own genetic limitations. That does not mean that those that have the potential should not use the aforementioned training methods; ESPECIALLY when there is a mountain of evidence that shows strength and conditioning training is more than capable of improving an athlete's abilities.

Incidentally, here's a video of Vitor Belfort using some of the training methods that I am describing:
[YOUTUBE]BZtZLnwY0gI[/YOUTUBE]



> There are specific and difficult to quantify differences between Mike Tyson throwing a punch and Kyle Kingsbury throwing a punch.  It isn't something that can be broken down to a simplistic matter of muscle strength or weight lifting.  "Quantifying" simple variables like speed, mass or force doesn't tell you precisely how such things are achieved or even what the best means of achieving them are.


First, difficult to quantify doesn't mean impossible to quantify. 
Second, stop mentioning weight lifting like that's the only thing I'm talking about.
Third, neuromuscular adaptation is just as important as muscular adaption, but I said that that could be trained which is supported by the aforementioned sources I provided; so, you're completely ignoring one of my points to make your own argument make sense.



> If we clock a kickboxers kicks at 70 miles per hour, that doesn't tell us what the best technique for throwing a kick is, or what the best training methods to achieve devasting power are.


 Here you go again making up arguments. There is much, much more to the field of sports physiology than measuring velocity. And how sport scientists go about determining the best training methods is quite a bit more complicated than you seem to understand.



> That part of the equation is unknown.
> 
> The context of such things being labeled "quantified" is bullshit, really.


You really are determined to learn nothing, aren't you?



> According to "sport science" Gray Maynard hits as hard as James Toney.
> 
> Ok...  what now?


You do realize that is a television show and not a peer reviewed scientific study, right?

You must be trolling me at this point because you're not even making sense anymore.



> Are you disagreeing with me that Griffins punches are proportionally weaker due to the technique he uses?  Rather than dodge around and pretend you're making some accurate point, can you be direct and try to post something resembling a straight & honest answer for a change?  d:


That's hilarious. I have directly addressed every statement you have made and exposed your unfounded conclusions and straw man arguments and you accuse _me_ of being disingenuous. 

And I am disagreeing with you that Griffin's technique is the problem. He can train technique all he likes, his upper body is not capable of generating knock out power because he was not born with that genetic potential. That doesn't mean he is not going to receive some benefit from strength and conditioning training; and it especially doesn't mean others would not benefit from strength and conditioning training.



> You haven't posted anything that specifically addresses striking in boxing, kickboxing, or MMA.
> 
> Only vague and unspecific things relating to conditioning that are vague and unsubstantial enough to apply to powerlifting as well as discus throwing and any number of areas which have absolutely nothing to do with the topic.


Controlled scientific experiments are vague and unspecific? 
Here are some combat sport studies if that's so important to you then:





And another article that shows that even decision making in combat sports is capable of being studied:




> If Gallic Rush accepts his sig bet on Machida, I'll accept yours.


I already told you I don't give a shit. I'll put whatever you want in my sig.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 12, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> I wasn't going to accept this, because you were so late with it.


 so are you not going by your word?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 12, 2011)

Hey, he just said he'd go with it if I go with it. And I'm saying I'll put whatever in my sig. So, that's two promises he'd be breaking if he said no


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 12, 2011)

GSP hits harder than any heavyweight boxer ever according to that show, too.


----------



## Matariki (Dec 12, 2011)




----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 12, 2011)

Won't be surprised if Fedor loses, but it's almost a guaranteed win.


I wonder who's next for Lyoto? I could see them matching up Stephan Bonnar.


----------



## Tiger (Dec 12, 2011)

Mr NiceGuy said:


> _Fuck I hate that Jones._



I don't get why. I don't give a shit if people don't like him, but I don't see the reasoning. Is he just too good? People expect him to be a subtle, modest gentleman. What is he? 23? Fuck off, seriously, he's still a kid. There's nothing to hate about the kid, but he will keep winning and you will keep hating him more for no reason.



Ippy said:


> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> TOLD YA



Maaaan, it wasn't like it wasn't a good fight or a good test for Jones. He didn't dominate the whole time or anything. I feel that's what would have rendered this response to the win. I came in here expecting to say I was very glad he won, but props to Machida for a great fight.

Instead all I see is on one side, Jones fans saying he was never in danger, and then on the other side, Aokiji being the most obnoxious poster on NF.



Mori` said:


> What is it with Canadians and getting knocked out in under 10 seconds?
> 
> war Zombie =)



I dunno man, that was embarrassing. I was gonna be all like - "Fak no, Canada's awesome" as a joke, but then I saw your set and I just wanna be your friend 



Gallic Rush said:


> Looking back at it, I feel like there were some early murmurings of hate when Jones first started getting recognition, sometime around the Hamill fight I would say. At the time the thing I remember was people were annoyed with him being another Jesus freak (as if half the fighters in the UFC don't thank Jesus after every fight).
> 
> Where I think he really got shit was being so confident he would beat Shogun and then actually doing it. I feel like people resent him for tearing down their idol in such devastating fashion.



As much as Aokiji can't admit this, it is one of the big reasons people don't like him. He keeps beating the people they want to win. And he's 22 or 23, and some morons think if you're not a modest gentleman in the ring and outside it that you're "unlikeable". Fuck sakes, he's not a seasoned veteran or anything...in his mind, he's hearing "holy fuck I won, I'm the fucking champ" - he's not thinking "I better make sure my opponent is alive so fucktards in their mom's basement think I'm an asshole."

Grow up, seriously.

I've seen a lot of Jones' fans, and I've seen a lot of his haters - and when it comes to the quality of people in either camp, I am proud to be in Jones' when compared to a person like Aokiji.

Fuck I can't stand you.  Poor excuse for a fan of MMA, you may have a lot of mma knowledge, but all you ever do is bitch and cry and whine. Get over yourself.

Jon Jones is the best LHW in the UFC, and it is turning the same corner as the MW division with Silva. It's going to be more interesting to see which LHWs are competing for the title shots than the actual shots themselves. But that's not Jones' fault.

I don't see anyone beating Jones outside of a flash KO for a couple years. And I don't see anything unlikeable about the kid at all.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 12, 2011)

People hate Jon Jones because he's arrogant and cocky.

Supposedly.


Honestly, I hope he goes on to remain the "undefeated" LHW champ for a long time. It's about time there was an actual champ in the division to defend the belt.


----------



## Ippy (Dec 12, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Maybe you do not possess the emotional intelligence that would be required to understand why they dislike him.
> 
> Btw, how does his humble pie personality work with his retarded antics during a fight? Starting like a monkey on all fours, that takedown toss against rampage...etc
> 
> ...




I work in one of the nation's top 50 hospitals.  On a daily basis, I deal with basically three types of people: catty coworkers, sick and desperate patients, and doctors.

All three types of people are liars.  Horrible, unashamed liars.

I have waded through the rivers of their bullshit for _years_.  I have _seen _arrogance.  I have _seen _dishonesty.  I _know _when someone is full of shit.  All I see from Jones is a flawed human being who is trying to do his best.  I know fake, and what I see isn't fake.

You people are, quite frankly, idiots.  

You're idiots for not seeing your own biases (due to racism, religious intolerance, hero worship of someone he destroyed...), or you're idiots for knowing you have biases, and trying to pretend we don't have the intelligence to see them.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 12, 2011)

what on earth are you guys talking about?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 12, 2011)

I wish I knew.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 12, 2011)

Law said:


> I don't get why. I don't give a shit if people don't like him, but I don't see the reasoning. Is he just too good? People expect him to be a subtle, modest gentleman. What is he? 23? Fuck off, seriously, he's still a kid. There's nothing to hate about the kid, but he will keep winning and you will keep hating him more for no reason.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Ippy said:


> I work in one of the nation's top 50 hospitals.  On a daily basis, I deal with basically three types of people: catty coworkers, sick and desperate patients, and doctors.
> 
> All three types of people are liars.  Horrible, unashamed liars.
> 
> ...



Guys.


*Spoiler*: __ 





Ok maybe not to stop posting, but seriously, I never cared so much about this issue. I just find it silly that people go all "YOU JUST BUTTHURT, NUUH" when other people who also dominate never get accused of this. Hasn't GSP beaten alot of people? JDS? Anderson? You don't see THEIR fans complaining about bias. 

I don't really care about his personality, I mainly root against him (not hate) cuz I don't enjoy the loss of higher cognitive abilities that the MMA scene suffers when one guy is really good. Example: "ITT: What should Machida's gameplan be?" "Drink piss and pray to God." Machida loses, Chida fans sad: "Why are you suprised?" Fedor fans with their gay "Fedor armbar shoops", etc...

I dislike fans pretending that their fighter is bigger than the game itself and I like to see them cut down to size. never said I HATE a fighter for it though.


This will be the last thing I said about this. Jones is not arrogant. We don't know him. End of story.




In other news, HAS OVEREEM JUICED?!


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 12, 2011)

That live NSAC hearing was off the hook.

Overeem has a conditional license now--the conditions are that he gets a shit-load of more tests.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 12, 2011)

Horsemeat comes with a lot of bureaucracy.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 12, 2011)

Really excited for the flyweight division. I know they signed McCall and Urushitani, who else do you think they'll end up signing? Jussier Da Silva, Sinichi Kojima, Mamoru Yamaguchi, I can see those guys being signed.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 12, 2011)

Overeem is going to be fucking fine. What the fuck you guys are like a bunch of school girls. All this shit about "is Overeem out of UFC 141?!" is just rumor mongering. He's not been caught for roids before and he's not about to start.

Oh, and flyweight division brings new hope for an Asian champion


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 13, 2011)

I promised not to talk about it, but here I go:

why has noone ever accused GSP of being arrogant? GSP has dethroned Matt Hughes. He called him out and finished him twice, pretty decisively. I'm sure Hughes had many fans.  Why didn't they invent character flaws?

Oh and BJ Penn. One of the most popular guys in MMA, got smashed hard by GSP. People were butthurt. Greasegate. 

No one claimed he was arrogant. 



Same with Fedor. Cause of immense hate. No accusations of arrogance. Shogun, Machida, etc...



Seems like "buttpain" isn't it.


----------



## Ippy (Dec 13, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Ok maybe not to stop posting, but seriously, I never cared so much about this issue. I just find it silly that people go all "YOU JUST BUTTHURT, NUUH" when other people who also dominate never get accused of this. Hasn't GSP beaten alot of people? JDS? Anderson? You don't see THEIR fans complaining about bias.
> 
> I don't really care about his personality, I mainly root against him (not hate) cuz I don't enjoy the loss of higher cognitive abilities that the MMA scene suffers when one guy is really good. Example: "ITT: What should Machida's gameplan be?" "Drink piss and pray to God." Machida loses, Chida fans sad: "Why are you suprised?" Fedor fans with their gay "Fedor armbar shoops", etc...
> 
> ...


For someone who doesn't care about Jones' supposed "arrogance", you damn sure have had a lot to say on the matter.

I can look at damn near any post about the matter of yours, and you will clearly be echoing Sherdog's irrational and unfounded hate of him.


----------



## Ippy (Dec 13, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> what on earth are you guys talking about?


I insulted Jones' haters, which include Aokiji, because they're entire reason(s) for hating him is steeped in logical fallacies and biases.

He claimed I lacked emotional intelligence for not seeing why Jones is so "cocky" and disliked.

I countered with the fact that my entire career hinges on me having a high emotional intelligence, where I have to deal with every single personality under the sun, and where I get lied to by staff and patients alike.

I then call Aokiji and anyone like him, idiots.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 13, 2011)

Jones is very cocky... doesn't mean he isn't talented. It's common sense that a 24 year old who is already being called the greatest MMA fighter of all time would be up his own ass.

All that said, he may very well be the best we've ever seen.



			
				Gallic Rush said:
			
		

> Oh, and flyweight division brings new hope for an Asian champion



This is very likely. Go look at the flyweight rankings, nearly all of them are Japanese.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 13, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Overeem is going to be fucking fine. What the fuck you guys are like a bunch of school girls. All this shit about "is Overeem out of UFC 141?!" is just rumor mongering. He's not been caught for roids before and he's not about to start.
> 
> Oh, and flyweight division brings new hope for an Asian champion


If you listened to the NSAC hearing you would know he was on very thin ice.

It's a miracle they gave him the conditional license at all.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 13, 2011)

Oh what ever.

He is not the only person who has to jump through hoops to get a license to fight. Matyushenko had to go through the same shit, but no one gives a shit about that guy so no one is wetting themselves over it.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 13, 2011)

Matyushenko was on the phone for all of three minutes. They showered him in praise and gave him a pass. It was only because he was over 35.


They grilled Overeem for more than thirty minutes with questions, surprise guests, interrogative methods, and one guy even thought this was his first HW fight and basically accused him of being a juicer.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 13, 2011)

Wanderlei and Vitor slated as coaches for TUF Brazil.

I hope to god they do not have the coaches fight at the end of that one because Wanderlei is going to get murdered (much like their first fight).


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 13, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Jones is very cocky... doesn't mean he isn't talented. It's common sense that a 24 year old who is already being called the greatest MMA fighter of all time would be up his own ass.
> 
> All that said, he may very well be the best we've ever seen.



Shogun? 



Ippy said:


> For someone who doesn't care about Jones' supposed "arrogance", you damn sure have had a lot to say on the matter.
> 
> I can look at damn near any post about the matter of yours, and you will clearly be echoing Sherdog's irrational and unfounded hate of him.



I care less about him actually being "arrogant" and more about people getting so defensive and making absurd claims to rationalize the dislike that he gets.

I don't care nearly as much as you. = D

Btw, why would staff lie to you? I can see patients doing that but staff?  Is it the usual with coworkers or are you implying that hospital staff has more dishonest people than most?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 13, 2011)

It should be pretty interesting. 

Of course I probably won't be watching this one since I have no TV and don't care about TUF anymore. I will try to watch the fights though.


----------



## Matariki (Dec 13, 2011)

Reem has nothing to worry about, he's all natural. 

I expect the fight to go down like Reem vs Duffee


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 13, 2011)

Because Brock and Duffee have similar skills.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 13, 2011)

If Overeem didn't have the stamina of an asthma patient, he would actually stand a better chance.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 13, 2011)

Wasn't expecting Wand to be the other guy... I don't see it ending too well for him.

Who you guys got between Nate Diaz and Donald Cerrone?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 13, 2011)

Hard to say because Diaz's boxing has been improving so much in the past few months. That said, I do think Cerrone has been improving as well and he mixes his kicks in better with his punches.

I give Cerrone a narrow lead in the fight, but it should be exciting regardless.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 13, 2011)

Pretty good card overall, and Gustafsson is fighting. Fitch too... Feels like forever since I've last seen him fight.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 13, 2011)

UFC 142 RIO PRESSER

TUF BRAZIL PRESSER


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 13, 2011)

Cerrone is going to fuck up Nate Diaz.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 13, 2011)

Cerrone should win, but Nate will give him a decent fight. If it stays on the feet it'll be a war.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 13, 2011)

Does Bendo have a chance to grapple fuck and sub Edgar?


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 13, 2011)

I don't think he can submit Edgar, not with out hurting him badly.

He can certainly out grapple him though.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 13, 2011)

Edgar will handle Bendo, of that I'm certain.

He handled a bigger, stronger, meaner wrestler already with more power in his hands and more durability in Gray Maynard.

Bendo is much more explosive, dynamic, and quick than Maynard, sure, but he's not as big, not as strong, and not as good of a wrestler. Edgar gonna dominate.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 13, 2011)

^Yeaaaah, maybe not quite as technical as a wrestler, but I think Bendo is less likely to gas and will therefore be more willing to go through a grueling war of attrition. 

Maynard was really confident in his hands in both their second and third fight; so, naturally he didn't want to spend too much energy on the takedowns.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 13, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Edgar will handle Bendo, of that I'm certain.
> 
> He handled a bigger, stronger, meaner wrestler already with more power in his hands and more durability in Gray Maynard.



Okay, well Ben is still bigger, stronger and meaner than Edgar (not sure what meaner means). I don't get the durability thing, Ben Henderson is notoriously hard to finish, while Gray has been knocked out twice, and tapped out once. 

Ben still has all the advantages Gray had over Edgar, except he is faster - and speed is one of Edgar's biggest advantages against Gray.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 13, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Edgar will handle Bendo, of that I'm certain.
> 
> He handled a bigger, stronger, meaner wrestler already with more power in his hands and more durability in Gray Maynard.
> 
> Bendo is much more explosive, dynamic, and quick than Maynard, sure, but he's not as big, not as strong, and not as good of a wrestler. Edgar gonna dominate.



I feel Edgar is overrated. I mean his footwork is a bitch to deal with, but if he got caught by Maynard on 2 different occasions, he probably can't keep it up consistently. 

Bendo seems to have immense coordination and balance, he isn't as clumsy as Maynard, if you catch my drift. 

Too bad Edgar is like a squirrel on the ground.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 13, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Okay, well Ben is still bigger, stronger and meaner than Edgar (not sure what meaner means). I don't get the durability thing, Ben Henderson is notoriously hard to finish, while Gray has been knocked out twice, and tapped out once.
> 
> Ben still has all the advantages Gray had over Edgar, except he is faster - and speed is one of Edgar's biggest advantages against Gray.


Maynard is a bully. He's really mean.  Ben is a nice guy.

Also, one of those knockouts was self-inflicted. The other came at the hands of Frankie Edgar, which only helps Frankie's case. He has knockout power and excellent striking.

Let's not forget where Edgar came from: out-grappling everyone at LW. And he did it via skill, not size and strength. The only person thus far to beat him at that is Gray Maynard, and he out-grappled everyone else at LW. He also improved since being submitted by Nate, proven by his victory over Nate.

I'd take Maynard in a fight against Ben, too.


Aokiji said:


> I feel Edgar is overrated. I mean his footwork is a bitch to deal with, but if he got caught by Maynard on 2 different occasions, he probably can't keep it up consistently.
> 
> Bendo seems to have immense coordination and balance, he isn't as clumsy as Maynard, if you catch my drift.
> 
> Too bad Edgar is like a squirrel on the ground.


I used to think that, but his last fight with Maynard won me over. He has the skills and the heart to stay champ for a long time.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 13, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Also, one of those knockouts was self-inflicted. The other came at the hands of Frankie Edgar, which only helps Frankie's case. He has knockout power and excellent striking.


Which doesn't help your case of Gray being more durable than Bendo.


> Let's not forget where Edgar came from: out-grappling everyone at LW. And he did it via skill, not size and strength.


Irrelevant.



> The only person thus far to beat him at that is Gray Maynard,


 Ben Henderson is a better grappler than Gray Maynard. 



> and he out-grappled everyone else at LW. He also improved since being submitted by Nate, proven by his victory over Nate.


Which was a close fight regardless.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 13, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> I feel Edgar is overrated. I mean his footwork is a bitch to deal with, but if he got caught by Maynard on 2 different occasions, he probably can't keep it up consistently.
> 
> Bendo seems to have immense coordination and balance, he isn't as clumsy as Maynard, if you catch my drift.
> 
> Too bad Edgar is like a squirrel on the ground.



Well... saying he's overrated is sort of a ridiculous point because there are people that think he's not that good and people (Dana White) that think he's ahead of GSP in the p4p rankings. So, what are you basing your overrated on? An average? Because there are always going to be people at either end of the spectrum.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 13, 2011)

I honestly feel Nate is 2-0 against Maynard. Their second fight was really close but I felt Nate won it. 

As for Frankie-Bendo, I think it will be Frankie's toughest challenge to date. I'm not counting him out, though a Cerrone-Bendo rematch now would be sweet.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 13, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Well... saying he's overrated is sort of a ridiculous point because there are people that think he's not that good and people (Dana White) that think he's ahead of GSP in the p4p rankings. So, what are you basing your overrated on? An average? Because there are always going to be people at either end of the spectrum.



People ignoring that he's been 3 times in the cage with Maynard and only won once. People ignoring that he was almost finished in BOTH his last fights and that he got where he is by a shitty decision in the first place.

BUT HE GOT SO MUCH HEART!!!!



In other news, the stupidest peculiarity might just be "winning a round on aggression". Fuck, top position bias and "every round is a 10-9  " is nothing compared to that.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 14, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Yeah, that was a brutal choke. But I always knew Machida's "black belt" was so overrated. Getting caught in a triangle by Ortiz was the first red flag.



IIRC, that was a well executed and quick triangle Tito locked onto Machida.  Honestly, I think Machida's BJJ isn't overrated, its just that Tito didn't telegraph it and slapped it on much quicker & with more flexibility than someone might expect from someone of his size.  Tito's not known for subs of his back, so it may well have been a surprise to everyone.

In the first round, JBJ busted up Machida's right leg with those kicks.  Machida was gimped early on.  One legged fighters don't throw KO punches so Jones had little to fear from those left hands of Machida.

In the second round, JBJ beat Machida up some more opening that big gash on his forehead with an elbow.

Then, he choked a one legged, beat up, Machida out from a standing position which probably caught Machida by surprise.  Its not so much that Machida sucks so much as JBJ beat him up, then surprised him with a sub he didn't expect.

Its like saying Nogueira's jiu jitsu is overrated because Mir broke his arm.  That's not necessarily how it works, imo.



Gallic Rush said:


> That is due to genetic limitation, which does not invalidate my point. In any event, increasing from your baseline level of physical ability is possible for everyone that is healthy and able to train, even if that increase is going to be modest because of your genetics.



What "genetic limitation" is it a result of, precisely?



Gallic Rush said:


> First of all, you are still presenting no new information, despite that fact that I have already debunked most of your nonsense with peer reviewed literature.
> 
> Second, I never said it was only a matter of lifting weights. Lifting weights is a part, *and only a part* of the training that should be proscribed. You're basically framing the discussion in a way that suggests you either do only weight lifting or only technique training. There is time enough in the day for both.



What new information do you want?  That in itself is no valid criticism.

You said it was a matter of muscle development or strength *not technique*, of which is typically associated weight lifting.  

I never said to choose between weights or technique, only that technique was the largest and most important part of an athlete developing the type of explosive power that allows them to deliver knockout blows in combat sports.

If I'm repeating myself, its because you're failing to reply to me directly or honestly.



Gallic Rush said:


> You're making up arguments. I said the variables could be quantified, but I never said they could be reproduced in every other athlete.



Something being quantiable implies it is reproducable as well.



Gallic Rush said:


> I am well aware that not everyone can become an elite athlete because of their own genetic limitations. That does not mean that those that have the potential should not use the aforementioned training methods; ESPECIALLY when there is a mountain of evidence that shows strength and conditioning training is more than capable of improving an athlete's abilities.



What "genetic limitations" are you referring to?

Remember, a lot of fighters and athletes attribute sports to being 90% mental and only 10% physical.  Or some other similarly proportionate breakdown.

What makes you believe that sports are 90% physical, or genetic, and only 10% mental?



Gallic Rush said:


> Incidentally, here's a video of Vitor Belfort using some of the training methods that I am describing:
> [YOUTUBE]BZtZLnwY0gI[/YOUTUBE]



You said if it were possible for technique to trump muscle development a lighter fighter could hit as hard or harder than a heavier fighter.

I gave you evidence that it was possible, at least in terms of what sports science measures.

Now you're avoiding giving me a straight answer by posting a random clip of Vitor that is completely unrelated to the topic.

Also, what you're missing is...  every single pro MMA fighter on planet earth does the type of strength and conditioning that Vitor is doing.  BUT, not every fighter who does that type of training has the type of one punch KO power Vitor has.

They might have the muscle development and strength and conditioning, what they lack is the proper technique.  Its not as if Vitor has a special genetic adaptation that allows him to bench press 600 lbs, whereas other fighters only average 300 lbs.  There isn't necessarily a measurable genetic advantage Vitor has over other fighters, because its moreso a question of technique than genetics.



Gallic Rush said:


> Third, neuromuscular adaptation is just as important as muscular adaption, but I said that that could be trained which is supported by the aforementioned sources I provided; so, you're completely ignoring one of my points to make your own argument make sense.



How is that supposed to prove that technique isn't more important than muscle development or similar factors?



Gallic Rush said:


> Here you go again making up arguments. There is much, much more to the field of sports physiology than measuring velocity. And how sport scientists go about determining the best training methods is quite a bit more complicated than you seem to understand.



I generalized and maybe I oversimplified a little, but that has nothing to do with proving your point.



Gallic Rush said:


> You do realize that is a television show and not a peer reviewed scientific study, right?
> 
> You must be trolling me at this point because you're not even making sense anymore.



Now you're going to try and hide behind your "peer review shield".  



Gallic Rush said:


> That's hilarious. I have directly addressed every statement you have made and exposed your unfounded conclusions and straw man arguments and you accuse _me_ of being disingenuous.



No, you haven't.  Try again.



Gallic Rush said:


> And I am disagreeing with you that Griffin's technique is the problem. He can train technique all he likes, his upper body is not capable of generating knock out power because he was not born with that genetic potential. That doesn't mean he is not going to receive some benefit from strength and conditioning training; and it especially doesn't mean others would not benefit from strength and conditioning training.



What "genetic potential"?



Gallic Rush said:


> Controlled scientific experiments are vague and unspecific?
> Here are some combat sport studies if that's so important to you then:
> 
> 
> ...



When someone says something is capable of being studied, that doesn't imply that its a deterministic area that is comparable to hard science.

Psychology itself isn't the same as empirical science, is it?

Also, that says nothing about whether technique or muscle conditioning is more important in generating explosive force in strikes in combat sports.



Gallic Rush said:


> I already told you I don't give a shit. I'll put whatever you want in my sig.



Hey, alrite.  



Violent By Design said:


> so are you not going by your word?



Eh?  Send me a sig..


----------



## Ippy (Dec 14, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> I promised not to talk about it, but here I go:
> 
> why has noone ever accused GSP of being arrogant? GSP has dethroned Matt Hughes. He called him out and finished him twice, pretty decisively. I'm sure Hughes had many fans.  Why didn't they invent character flaws?
> 
> ...


The same reason why Jones letting Machida drop the floor gets a sea of crying, and yet I saw none when Morecraft did 

Oh, and tell me what the MMA public reaction would be if Jones posed with a half dead picture of Machida similar to this...


----------



## Tiger (Dec 14, 2011)

When did anyone say that people see Jones as _arrogant_ because he beats their heroes?

People have an irrational hate for the guy because he does that. People also hate on GSP, and can rarely ever come up with a good reason for it. As if you or anyone is going to admit you dislike someone for no reason. Human nature prevents that from even happening.

He's 22/23 years old and the best LHW in the UFC. Expecting him to be humble is _pretty fucking stupid_, even for MMA fans.


----------



## Ippy (Dec 14, 2011)

Does an Ippy gotta get racial up in here?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 14, 2011)

Anyone see that horror show that was Frye vs Warpath?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 14, 2011)

Lesnar vs Overeem Preview



1mmortal 1tachi said:


> IIRC, that was a well executed and quick triangle Tito locked onto Machida.  Honestly, I think Machida's BJJ isn't overrated, its just that Tito didn't telegraph it and slapped it on much quicker & with more flexibility than someone might expect from someone of his size.  Tito's not known for subs of his back, so it may well have been a surprise to everyone.
> 
> In the first round, JBJ busted up Machida's right leg with those kicks.  Machida was gimped early on.  One legged fighters don't throw KO punches so Jones had little to fear from those left hands of Machida.
> 
> ...


Well, of course getting caught with a punch and dropped was what lead him to getting submitted, but earlier when he got taken down he pretty much allowed Jones to tee off on his head. 


> Its like saying Nogueira's jiu jitsu is overrated because Mir broke his arm.  That's not necessarily how it works, imo.


 I think it reflects on how good Mir is and not how bad Nogueira is. Of course, Jones is obviously very good as well.



> blah blah blah


K, I'm done.



Aokiji said:


> People ignoring that he's been 3 times in the cage with Maynard and only won once. People ignoring that he was almost finished in BOTH his last fights and that he got where he is by a shitty decision in the first place.
> 
> BUT HE GOT SO MUCH HEART!!!!



People respect him because a small guy taking a beating from larger dudes, and winning or at least surviving.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 14, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Anyone see that horror show that was Frye vs Warpath?



That was a raping... Frye has no chin anymore... got hit with like a jab 20 seconds in and stumbled. Not sure why the guy hasn't hung it up yet.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 14, 2011)

He was fat and out of shape, too, which was surprising given his normal physique. He has lost it, for sure.


----------



## TheGreatOne (Dec 14, 2011)

What do you guys think about Ryan Bader? You think he will ever be a major player in the Light Heavy division?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 14, 2011)

After what Ortiz did to him I think it's going to take him a while. I mean, he's got solid wrestling and decent power, but he's not dynamic enough, really.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 14, 2011)

Bader might crack the top 10.

I don't see him ever winning a title though. It's feasible he gets a title shot as a replacement or a gimme, but he won't win.


----------



## Matariki (Dec 14, 2011)




----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 14, 2011)

The moon has landed.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 14, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Well, of course getting caught with a punch and dropped was what lead him to getting submitted, but earlier when he got taken down *he pretty much allowed Jones to tee off on his head*.
> I think it reflects on how good Mir is and not how bad Nogueira is. Of course, Jones is obviously very good as well.



You think Machida "*let*" JBJ punch him in the head?  

I think its moreso, no one on the bottom of JBJ has been able to tie him up or find guard because JBJ's arms and limbs are so long.  He can literally punch and elbow you and his 10+ inch reach advantage will leave him far enough away from you that won't be able to tie him up or prevent it.



Gallic Rush said:


> K, I'm done.



Heh.  

Are you not used to having to justify or back up the things you say?

Or, is it just that someone having a different opinion is offensive to you?



TheGreatOne said:


> What do you guys think about Ryan Bader? You think he will ever be a major player in the Light Heavy division?



I think guys like King Mo and Alexander Gustafsson are hot prospects at lwh right now.  I think King Mo has better wrestling and boxing than Bader.  Gustafsson is a beast with his size and near JBJ reach.

Bader isn't really branching out and becoming a MMA fighter, hes kind of limiting himself to boxing and wrestling & considering the ease with which JBJ and Tito finished Bader with subs, his jiu jitsu may not be all that good, either.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 14, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> You think Machida "*let*" JBJ punch him in the head?
> 
> I think its moreso, no one on the bottom of JBJ has been able to tie him up or find guard because JBJ's arms and limbs are so long.  He can literally punch and elbow you and his 10+ inch reach advantage will leave him far enough away from you that won't be able to tie him up or prevent it.


 Figure of speech. Obviously given the option, Machida would have liked Jones to stop elbowing him in the face. I didn't think you'd take me literally there.

My point being that Machida was not nearly good enough on the ground to handle Jones. Which is kind of sad considering he lives in the jiu jitsu capitol of the world.



> Heh.
> 
> Are you not used to having to justify or back up the things you say?
> 
> Or, is it just that someone having a different opinion is offensive to you?


I'm not offended, man. Keep doing what you're doing; I'm just not going to try and convince you of anything anymore.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 14, 2011)

Gallic Rush said:


> Figure of speech. Obviously given the option, Machida would have liked Jones to stop elbowing him in the face. I didn't think you'd take me literally there.
> 
> My point being that Machida was not nearly good enough on the ground to handle Jones. Which is kind of sad considering he lives in the jiu jitsu capitol of the world.



Well bro, there are generally 2 options.

A.  Machida isn't good enough to deal with Jones on the ground.
B.  Jones is super awesome on the ground & no one can deal with him due to his size, length and wrestling.

I think JBJ's exceptionally difficult to deal with once he gets on top of you.  Its not that Machida and the guys JBJ has fought aren't good on the ground.  Its just that Jones is unstoppable once he gets on top of you.    Vera, Bader, Matyushenko, Machida.  None of them were able to stop Jones from the bottom or even slow him down...

I guess its Brock all over again.  No one wants to admit Brock has good wrestling or takedowns.  Instead they say that anyone who gets taken down by Brock has "shit wrestling".  Sounds good to me, broz.



Gallic Rush said:


> I'm not offended, man. Keep doing what you're doing; I'm just not going to try and convince you of anything anymore.



Alrite..


----------



## Kuya (Dec 15, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Cerrone is going to fuck up Nate Diaz.



DAMN STRAIGHT


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 15, 2011)

Yeah, I think everyone is already writing off Nate Diaz in his fight, but that could be unwise.

He still has a chance of submission, and he's incredibly durable. Anything could happen.



Just not him winning.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 15, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Well bro, there are generally 2 options.
> 
> A.  Machida isn't good enough to deal with Jones on the ground.
> B.  Jones is super awesome on the ground & no one can deal with him due to his size, length and wrestling.
> ...



Rampage got MOUNTED by him and popped back up right away. Machida also got back up. I don't understand why anyone would consider Machida's wrestling/ground game bad based on that fight.



Gallic Rush said:


> After what Ortiz did to him I think it's going to take him a while. I mean, he's got solid wrestling and decent power, but he's not dynamic enough, really.



What Ortiz did to him was nothing it means as much as Serra's punch.



Ippy said:


> The same reason why Jones letting Machida drop the floor gets a sea of crying, and yet I saw none when Morecraft did
> 
> Oh, and tell me what the MMA public reaction would be if Jones posed with a half dead picture of Machida similar to this...



I never gave a fuck about Machida getting dropped by JBJ and I'm pretty sure Machida wasn't doing this on his own accord.  

Also, some people butched about machida doing that as well, but because he comes off as likable and classy, checking up on Couture after kicking his teeth out and such, most people would give him the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 15, 2011)

If Jon Jones signed a picture of Machida unconscious it would just prove how arrogant he is.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 15, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Well bro, there are generally 2 options.
> 
> A.  Machida isn't good enough to deal with Jones on the ground.
> B.  Jones is super awesome on the ground & no one can deal with him due to his size, length and wrestling.



Truth is probably somewhere inbetween. Machida is decent enough on the ground, but there's definitely a reason he's not submitting guys.

And Jones is good, particularly his wrestling. So, getting him in a bad spot is pretty fucking hard.



> I think JBJ's exceptionally difficult to deal with once he gets on top of you.  Its not that Machida and the guys JBJ has fought aren't good on the ground.  Its just that Jones is unstoppable once he gets on top of you.    Vera, Bader, Matyushenko, Machida.  None of them were able to stop Jones from the bottom or even slow him down...


Yeah, but it's a lot easier to dominate from top position (obviously). I think if we see someone that actually manages to get Jones down (Rashad?) we're going to see Jones look a lot less impressive on the ground. Or he's just going to blow everyone's mind again, who the fuck knows xD



> I guess its Brock all over again.  No one wants to admit Brock has good wrestling or takedowns.  Instead they say that anyone who gets taken down by Brock has "shit wrestling".  Sounds good to me, broz.



I always got the impression that people were like, "yeah his wrestling is good, but that's it. Too one dimensional." Not sure I've heard a lot of criticism on Mir or whoever Brock took down having bad takedown defense.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 15, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> If Jon Jones signed a picture of Machida unconscious it would just prove how arrogant he is.



If he wasn't such a cornball, people would like his cockyness more. 

Guy has the arrogance, but lacks the swag. So he comes off like the dude, thats interviewing Clinton.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DI7u-TytRU[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 15, 2011)

^That shit is so old... but Clinton was a straight G; so, I'll let that one slide.

In MMA related news: Strikeforce just liquidated their HW division. It is no more...


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 15, 2011)




----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 15, 2011)

I always thought it was, "Brock has no skills, overrated wrestling, and relies on his size advantage to win."

People just haters.


----------



## Skylark (Dec 15, 2011)

Kuya said:


> DAMN STRAIGHT



Haha, I can totally see Nate calling Cerrone a punk ass as The Cowboy goes to shake his hand.

I'll be rooting for Diaz, but smart money says he gets his butt kicked.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 15, 2011)

Smart money says Bob Sapp is going to get beat up soon, too.


----------



## Matariki (Dec 15, 2011)

> "It'd be interesting to see Danny against Jon Jones," Couture told ESPN. "At the ripe old age of 40 Danny is coming into his own. He's firing on all cylinders right now.
> 
> "He's got a tremendous wrestling background, he's got one of the best right hands in the sport, it'd be interesting to see how he'd deal with Jon and how Jon would deal with him.
> 
> "I don't see reach being a huge issue. I don't see Jon being able to stay on the outside and pick Dan apart. There's going to have to be an engagement at some point in that cage and we'd get to see what type of punch Jon can take."


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 15, 2011)

First I thought that to be a pipe dream, as I considered Dan to be a Rampage with just 1 hand instead of 2, but now that I think of it...

He may be more skilled at pummeling than Rampage. People forget that JJ reach is only so devastating cuz getting inside means getting schooled in the clinch. Dan might actually counteract that, get a free hand and sock him on the chin. 

And about Overeem, I'll keep saying it, his lack of cardio and his risk aversion will likely be his downfall. The former ensures that he ain't winning this fight once it gets past RD 1 and the latter indicates that he ain't finishing it in RD 1.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 16, 2011)

Forgot the Strikeforce event was this weekend. 

Andre Ward and Mousasi are fighting. Awesome.


----------



## Gaja (Dec 16, 2011)

Melendez and Mousasi on the card, it's going to be awesome.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 16, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> First I thought that to be a pipe dream, as I considered Dan to be a Rampage with just 1 hand instead of 2, but now that I think of it...
> 
> He may be more skilled at pummeling than Rampage. People forget that JJ reach is only so devastating cuz getting inside means getting schooled in the clinch. Dan might actually counteract that, get a free hand and sock him on the chin.
> 
> And about Overeem, I'll keep saying it, his lack of cardio and his risk aversion will likely be his downfall. The former ensures that he ain't winning this fight once it gets past RD 1 and the latter indicates that he ain't finishing it in RD 1.


Hendo has wilder strikes than Rampage, better wrestling, better chin, and probably equal cardio (though Hendo didn't look so hot last time). 

He might do a tad better than Rampage just because he's more unpredictable, but I don't think he'll beat Jones. 


Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Forgot the Strikeforce event was this weekend.
> 
> Andre Ward and Mousasi are fighting. Awesome.




That's this weekend?


Gaja said:


> Melendez and Mousasi on the card, it's going to be awesome.


Fuckin' A.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 16, 2011)

Dana said that Gil will be staying in Strikeforce. I wonder how it's all going to work out.


----------



## Chocochip (Dec 16, 2011)

Jon Jones will murder.
It's sad but true.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 16, 2011)

Jon Jones will murder Gilbert Milendez?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 16, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Jon Jones will murder Gilbert Milendez?



It's sad, but true.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 16, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Hendo has wilder strikes than Rampage, *better wrestling, better chin, and probably equal cardio* (though Hendo didn't look so hot last time).
> 
> He might do a tad better than Rampage just because he's more unpredictable, but I don't think he'll beat Jones.



Better wrestling? On paper maybe, but Jones struggled to outwrestle Rampage and Page popped up right away after getting mounted. And JJ couldn't do his regular ragdoll routine on Page, he actually had to resort to knees. Hendo on the other hand got wrestlefucked by Shogun. 

I don't see how he has a better chin than Rampage, he got starched in all of his 3 last fights, he is fortunate that Shogun was tired. 

And cardio, erm WHAT?

I see Dan having a bit more power in his right, less perfectionist (I mean, I don't think Dan will stand in front of Jones, waiting for an opening, standing there like a tool the way Page did and getting pitter patter kicked the whole time) and he is probably better in the clinch, which is JJs main reason for success IMO up there with the Dhalsim/monkey arms.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 16, 2011)

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Not trying to troll or anything... but I am serious.
> 
> ...



  

this this this


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 16, 2011)

Or Overeem will come out aggressive and striking, it's a general fact that Brock wilts when he gets hit hard. He does badly against guys who are overly aggressive like Carwin or Cain.

This is me hoping we'll see Reem beat Lesnar, though.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 17, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Or Overeem will come out aggressive and striking, it's a general fact that Brock wilts when he gets hit hard. He does badly against guys who are overly aggressive like Carwin or Cain.
> 
> This is me hoping we'll see Reem beat Lesnar, though.



Errm, what? Cain won because he can actually get up after being taken down and he has a titanic gastank. 

Brock wilting when he gets hit hard doesn't matter as Overeem is the same, in fact, he wilts when he gets hit by mediocre punchers as well.

Trust me, I was rooting against Overeem when he was fighting Werdum and even I accepted that Werdum is a pretty easy matchup for him. This time, I think people might be suprised how little offense he actually gets off. Fedor, he is not.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 17, 2011)

Cain outstruck Brock, though, and was the aggressor. So did Carwin. That's how they won.

Overeem will probably lose, but he is a better striker, so he could get a TKO. It's possible.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 17, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Cain outstruck Brock, though, and was the aggressor. So did Carwin. That's how they won.
> 
> Overeem will probably lose, but he is a better striker, so he could get a TKO. It's possible.



Cain only managed to strike with Brock because he has teh scrambling to do that. Also, both of these guys are FAR less tentative than Reem. (and pretty sure Carwin didn't win )

Don't be suprised if Brock tags him repeatedly, Reem's defense if leaky in MMA. Also, being faced with a guy who can plant you on your ass can make your stand up look worse than it is. 

Again, it's Reems crappy cardio that makes me question his chances to win, he has a small window of opportunity to win and given his aversion to taking risks, I feel that an aggressive opponent could make him not let his hands go.

But of course he could take it, I consider a guillotine likely too.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 17, 2011)

How is this OSP guy Mousasi is facing?


----------



## TheGreatOne (Dec 17, 2011)

Hey did anyone else here about Anderson Silva possibly retiring? Dana White said he may have one more MW title defense and then a possible superfight with JOn Jones or GSP. That sounds great! What do you guys think about that?


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 17, 2011)

next fight: Sonnen dethrones him, last fight Sonnen wins the rubber match.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 17, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Cain only managed to strike with Brock because he has teh scrambling to do that. Also, both of these guys are FAR less tentative than Reem. (and pretty sure Carwin didn't win )
> 
> Don't be suprised if Brock tags him repeatedly, Reem's defense if leaky in MMA. Also, being faced with a guy who can plant you on your ass can make your stand up look worse than it is.
> 
> ...



Didn't mean to say they both won, but you get the idea.

Brock will prolly win by TKO but I'm rooting for The Reem.

Also, OSP is awesome. I think he's gonna beat Mousasi.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 17, 2011)

Wouldn't be suprised if Brock subs him either. At some point, GnPing your way to a stoppage gets too tiresome. Better slap on an armtriangle.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 17, 2011)

I think Overeems sub defense is too good. Id go as far as saying his submission game is better.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 17, 2011)

Only guy to submit him was Werdum, and Brock was only subbed by Mir. I don't think either will get the submission, they've only been submitted by high level BJJ guys. Brock could leave something out there but I think its gonna end in a TKO.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 17, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> I think Overeems sub defense is too good. Id go as far as saying his submission game is better.





The Fireball Kid said:


> Only guy to submit him was Werdum, and Brock was only subbed by Mir. I don't think either will get the submission, they've only been submitted by high level BJJ guys. Brock could leave something out there but I think its gonna end in a TKO.



Submitting someone when they're tired is not that hard, I mean Werdum got his sub when Reem gassed, I think the arm-triangle is good to pull off from the top, also, if a guy is hurt, it's also easy to do it to a guy when they are hurt.

So sub defense in itself is different from getting submitted.


----------



## Sanity Check (Dec 17, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Rampage got MOUNTED by him and popped back up right away. Machida also got back up. I don't understand why anyone would consider Machida's wrestling/ground game bad based on that fight.



Rampage is known for having exceptional core strength & no wrestler has managed to keep him down.  Remember, Rampage fought Hendo & didn't get controlled in terms of wrestling.  Rashad didn't manage to keep Rampage down.  No one has.  


Couture is biased.    He always chooses the wrestler and shows far too much favortism to fighters like Hendo who would likely be brutally devastated by Jones.



Gallic Rush said:


> Truth is probably somewhere inbetween. Machida is decent enough on the ground, but there's definitely a reason he's not submitting guys.



I think the only thing Machida has other fighters don't is an ability to cover ground quickly and be mobile.  If Machida had wrestling or brute strength maybe working subs would work to his advantage.  Relying mostly on mobility and footwork, he may be better off standing..  



Gallic Rush said:


> Yeah, but it's a lot easier to dominate from top position (obviously). I think if we see someone that actually manages to get Jones down (Rashad?) we're going to see Jones look a lot less impressive on the ground. Or he's just going to blow everyone's mind again, who the fuck knows xD



Rashad is fast.  I could see him ducking under and getting JBJ down Demetrious Johnson style.  I really wouldn't mind seeing that.  



Gallic Rush said:


> I always got the impression that people were like, "yeah his wrestling is good, but that's it. Too one dimensional." Not sure I've heard a lot of criticism on Mir or whoever Brock took down having bad takedown defense.



I guess his wrestling looks subpar when hes not suplexing people through the mat wwe style.  

Hopefully, he'll get inspired by Pat Barry slamming Stefan Struve and pull some Zangief 360 slams on the Overeem.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 17, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Couture is biased.    He always chooses the wrestler and shows far too much favortism to fighters like Hendo who would likely be brutally devastated by Jones.



Yeah, because JOnes isn't a greco wrestler.  

At least say he's sticking up for the old guy.

And I don't see where this "Jones destroys his opponents" myth comes from. Out of his elite level opponents, he has only demolished Shogun. What he did to Rampage wasn't demolition and he honestly didn't dominate Machida. If your showed that fight between them from the start until before the point, where JJ hurts him with the left and guillotines him and people didn't know that this is the LHW champ, no one would say it was a one sided affair.


----------



## Masai (Dec 17, 2011)

Just saw 140. I'm just glad i still have a laptop because i have never, ever come this close to throwing it against the wall. Big Nog submitted by Mir of all people. And submitted like that. He had him beat too, just finish him, why go for the choke and let him recover? Fuckin hell man.


----------



## Masai (Dec 17, 2011)

Herb does that to everybody, those shots were clean, you have to trust what you're doing, and mainly, you have to know who you're fighting. He went from a situation where he had complete control to a far, far more volatile one, you just don't do that.


----------



## Deesnutz (Dec 17, 2011)

it sucks that big nog lost to mir


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 17, 2011)

Moral of the story is: arm in guillotine is a shitty submission.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 17, 2011)

Worst referee of all time, SF is a mess too. 

Good God, he is in sidecontrol and the ref says "Improve position or I'll stand you up".



This is why this sport is still a joke at this stage.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 18, 2011)

Rousey would still fold Cyborg up like a pretzel.

COME AT ME BRO


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 18, 2011)

Herb Dean told him to stop hitting the back of the head, which Big Nog did. It's not like Herb Dean deducted a point or anything, Nog stupidly stopped punching and went for a submission that had no chance of working.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 18, 2011)

Just watched a replay of the event (was out at when it was live). 

Mousasi has definitely improved his wrestling but I don't know much about OSP, so I can't say how impressive it was. His overall performance was underwhelming, but apparently he was ill.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 18, 2011)

I didn't even watch last night, I fell asleep. Didn't miss much, from what I can tell. Mousasi needs to step up his game, as much as I enjoy guys like Keith Jardine and OSP, he should be taking them out.


----------



## Masai (Dec 18, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> This is why this sport is still a joke at this stage.



I wouldn't go that far but there's a lot that needs cleaning up, from a rules standpoint, officiating standpoint and more than anything a judging criteria standpoint.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 18, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> I didn't even watch last night, I fell asleep. Didn't miss much, from what I can tell. Mousasi needs to step up his game, as much as I enjoy guys like Keith Jardine and OSP, he should be taking them out.



He was sick bro, also, I didn't fully watch, but seems like he was really letting him have it. One more time: THE REFEREE STOOD HIM UP WHILE HE WAS BEATING HIM UP FROM HALFGUARD.



The Fireball Kid said:


> Herb Dean told him to stop hitting the back of the head, which Big Nog did. It's not like Herb Dean deducted a point or anything, Nog stupidly stopped punching and went for a submission that had no chance of working.



Lol I love this. GUILLOTINING AN OPPONENT WHO IS HURT IS STUPID, EVEN THOUGH IT HAS WORKED MILLIONS OF TIMES IN THE PAST.

It was the right choice to make, he just failed to execute properly and Mir is dangerous.


----------



## Masai (Dec 18, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Lol I love this. GUILLOTINING AN OPPONENT WHO IS HURT IS STUPID, EVEN THOUGH IT HAS WORKED MILLIONS OF TIMES IN THE PAST.
> 
> It was the right choice to make, he just failed to execute properly and *Mir is dangerous.*



Which makes it the wrong choice. Who you're fighting is directly related to how you fight. Going for a guillotine in that situation on Cheick Kongo and doing it to Mir are completely different things. He was in a position of dominance, one Mir had no answer for, one that would end the fight shortly. He gave it up for a spot where his opponent is both more comfortable and has a higher chance to recover. That is never a good exchange. What made the exchange wrong wasn't the fact that he went for a guillotine on a hurt opponent, it's the fact that he went for the guillotine on _this_ particular hurt opponent.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 18, 2011)

Meh honestly, i feel this is one of those "hindsight" game plans. If they stopped time right when Mir faceplanted and Herb told Nog to cease punching to the back of the head, what would you tell Nog to do. Would you tell him to stay away from a guillotine? 

A bad gameplan is bad regardless of outcome. Nobody would tell Nog that guillotining Mir is a bad idea if it had worked. If somebody does something stupid and still wins and you can say "man, he won, but that was real dumb, he is fortunate that blah blah blah" THEN it's poor tactics. As far as I'm concerned, it was a fair decision, he just stumbled over the execution and Mir's skills.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 18, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Lol I love this. GUILLOTINING AN OPPONENT WHO IS HURT IS STUPID, EVEN THOUGH IT HAS WORKED MILLIONS OF TIMES IN THE PAST.
> 
> It was the right choice to make, he just failed to execute properly and Mir is dangerous.



Mir looked hurt, I just think Nog should have kept punching. Besides, aren't guillotines one of the hardest subs to pull off, especially on high level jiu jitsu guys like Mir? It gave him a chance to recover.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 18, 2011)

Guillotines are the most basic submissions out there except for maybe RNC, but they are hard to get on high level fighters unless they're dazed. 

Mir was dazed.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 18, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Mir looked hurt, I just think Nog should have kept punching. Besides, aren't guillotines one of the hardest subs to pull off, especially on high level jiu jitsu guys like Mir? It gave him a chance to recover.


It depends on the type of guillotine. Like I said, arm in guillotines suck. There are much better guillotine variants.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 18, 2011)

Yeah, Mir was dazed. Nog could've kept punching and won, I think. Mir was face down and looked hurt.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 19, 2011)

At least Big Nog is making his return next year.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 19, 2011)

Big Nog got out-Nogged, that's all.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 19, 2011)

Good old Bas Rutten.

Too bad his knees went to shit. It would have been nice to see him tearing it up still.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 19, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Big Nog got out-Nogged, that's all.



Keep baiting. 



CrazyMoronX said:


> Good old Bas Rutten.
> 
> Too bad his knees went to shit. It would have been nice to see him tearing it up still.



He considered a stuffed takedown a major success. I'm not sure that woulda been very successful these days.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 19, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Better wrestling? On paper maybe, but Jones struggled to outwrestle Rampage and Page popped up right away after getting mounted. And JJ couldn't do his regular ragdoll routine on Page, he actually had to resort to knees. Hendo on the other hand got wrestlefucked by Shogun.
> 
> I don't see how he has a better chin than Rampage, he got starched in all of his 3 last fights, he is fortunate that Shogun was tired.
> 
> ...


Shogun only outgrappled him because 1) he is bigger and 2) Hendo was super gassed. 

I stand by my chin statement. Hendo has never been knocked out and he fought Prime Wand, ate a million knees, and still went on to lose a decision. Rampage was knocked out twice by him.

Maybe Hendo's cardio is worse, actually. I don't know, it isn't that important. 


Aokiji said:


> Keep baiting.
> 
> 
> 
> He considered a stuffed takedown a major success. I'm not sure that woulda been very successful these days.


He could kick your ass.


----------



## Gaja (Dec 19, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Good old Bas Rutten.
> 
> Too bad his knees went to shit. It would have been nice to see him tearing it up still.



Indeed, he's awesome. 

And holly fuck was he a savage back when he was competing, jacked as hell too. O_O


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 19, 2011)

Jumping splits, baby.

All day.


Jumping splits by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day, baby. All day!


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 19, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I stand by my chin statement. Hendo has never been knocked out and he fought Prime Wand, ate a million knees, and still went on to lose a decision. Rampage was knocked out twice by him.



That was prime Wand?  That was shortly after his loss to Tito. And I would like to see a GIF where he ate knees like THAT. I mostly remember Wand kicking his legs while standing over Dan and failing to get clean stomps. 

Likewise, JDS has a better chin than Hunt cuz Hunt has been KO'd and JDS wasn't.   



CrazyMoronX said:


> He could kick your ass.



NOOOO! Stop the presses! 

Seriously though, the beating he gave to Funaki was mean. How can you hurt people that much with an open palm. But Frank was taking him down at will. And Ken....


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 19, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> That way prime Wand?  That was his second fight in a 3 loss streak. And I would like to see a GIF where he ate knees like THAT.
> 
> Likewise, JDS has a better chin than Hunt cuz Hunt has been KO'd and JDS wasn't.
> 
> ...



Yeah, he lost to Wand in his prime back in December of the year 2000. Wand was coming off of two wins; not sure what you're talking about.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 19, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Yeah, he lost to Wand in his prime back in December of the year 2000. Wand was coming off of two wins; not sure what you're talking about.



Corrected.

I mean, timewise, it wasn't that far after his losses in the UFC.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 19, 2011)

Dan Henderson is just too one dimensional to take out a guy like JBJ. Jones is faster, bigger, and has arguably the better striking/wrestling of the two.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 19, 2011)

Well Wand only lost to the greatest LHW of all time.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Him and Shogun never fought though. :ho


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 19, 2011)

You mean that scrub who tapped to strikes and got subbed by Forrest Griffin?


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Fuck you, homie. :ho



> "I wanted to fight Georges St-Pierre and I still want that fight when Georges comes back," Diaz, who owns a record of 27-7, 1 NC, said. "Right now, I'm focused on beating Carlos Condit. He's tough and he's knocked a lot of guys out, but that doesn't concern me. I know I'm a better fighter in all areas. I'm gonna win that belt on February 4."


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 19, 2011)

That quote is obviously fake.

And I'll show you why:



> "Right now, I'm focused on beating Carlos *Condit..."*.



Now, obviously, if this were real he would have said "Conduit." 


Also, I got Diaz on that. 209 all day.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 19, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Dan Henderson is just too one dimensional to take out a guy like JBJ. Jones is faster, bigger, and has arguably the better striking/wrestling of the two.



He knows how to clinch.


That might remove the reason that JJ has been so successful everywhere.



CrazyMoronX said:


> Well Wand only lost to the greatest LHW of all time.



 

How Tito's standup never got exposed back then (Chuck aside) is a miracle.

And btw the judging in Chuck-Tito 2 was horrenduous. Eddie Bravo's scorecards were disgusting. Chuck easily stuffs Tito (octagon control), drops him (no flash knockdown) and comes within seconds of finishing him and that chump that makes sorecard for the viewers makes it a 10-9 round only because "Tito got up to his feet". 

Then in the second roun, nothing happens, Tito missing badly in the standup and with his takedowns, on his way to lose the round 10-9, gets Chuck's back in the end and lands a takedown but Chuck gets up straight away and lands a big elbow. My score 10-10. That guy: 10-9 for Tito.

So in summary, Chuck knocking Tito silly and almost finishing him is equally important as Tito landing like 1 TD out of 5 and missing badly in the standup. 

Fucking hell.



CrazyMoronX said:


> You mean that scrub who tapped to strikes and got subbed by Forrest Griffin?



I dunno, pretty sure people should stop talking about that loss as Shogun played basketball with his head.  And GSP, a GOAT candidate (idc  what Silva huggers say) tapped to strikes too.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 20, 2011)

Btw, how would you rank 205er's stand up, Jones aside?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 20, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> He knows how to clinch.
> 
> 
> That might remove the reason that JJ has been so successful everywhere.
> ...


Well Wand dropped Tito, too, before losing to him.

I'm not making the argument myself, but the argument could be made that Shogun beat a Forrest who had no chin left. He got that taken away from him by Jardine, Evans, and Silva. Shogun had sloppy clean-up duty.

It's like if Josh Barnett came back and knocked out Cro Cop. Would that clear out all three of his loses to the man?


Aokiji said:


> Btw, how would you rank 205er's stand up, Jones aside?


Just stand up?

Machida
Everybody else.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 20, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I'm not making the argument myself, but the argument could be made that Shogun beat a Forrest who had no chin left. He got that taken away from him by Jardine, Evans, and Silva. Shogun had sloppy clean-up duty.
> 
> It's like if Josh Barnett came back and knocked out Cro Cop. Would that clear out all three of his loses to the man?



Big difference between 3-1, the one win being when CC keeps losing to people he would easily beat and Shogun avenging a loss that happened under questionable circumstances. Also, even Forrest with a chin would probably be prone to get KTFO by Shogun, dude has heavy hands.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 20, 2011)

Shogun is just one of them hot-or-not fighters. Sometimes he's hot, sometimes he's not.

He has pretty bad luck with injuries, too.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 20, 2011)

Not even Jones gave Rampage a beatdown like Shogun. 

The hot and cold thing started after that injury too.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 20, 2011)

True, but it's a different animal. Jones submitted Rampage, Shogun brutalized him. Hard to compare the two things.


----------



## Matariki (Dec 20, 2011)

Chael says 205 is the weakest division


----------



## Early (Dec 20, 2011)

Just saw that UFC 141 is free to XBL members if you hurry and download the app


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 20, 2011)

Seiko said:


> Chael says 205 is the weakest division



100% manga canon.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 20, 2011)

Early said:


> Just saw that UFC 141 is free to XBL members if you hurry and download the app



sold out


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 20, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> True, but it's a different animal. Jones submitted Rampage, Shogun brutalized him. Hard to compare the two things.



Jones really GSP'd/Edgard'd him until he had the sub. Shogun beat him down like a bunch of Brits on the fox hunt.



Seiko said:


> Chael says 205 is the weakest division



Anderson fans actually call him out on those statements. 


And if I ever see someone saying "Mir proved that he has better BJJ than Nog" I will track that maggot down and tase his crotch until his balls turn black.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 20, 2011)

Mir proved he has better BJJ than Nog.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 20, 2011)

Stand-up...

1) Lyoto
2) Bones
3) Shogun post-100 million surgeries ()
4) Mousasi
5) Page

HM: Maldonaldo, Gust, Snake, Lil Nog (his boxing looked pretty terrible against Tito though), and Thiago Silva


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 20, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> sold out



I got mine :ho

Anyone else here get the Undisputed 3 alpha demo for Xbox 360? So good.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 20, 2011)

Watching old Shooto/Pride/Vale Tudo Japan videos makes me feel dead inside. Back when JMMA was relevant.

/doublepost


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm back home for Christmas break. Only have a PS3 and Wii, lol. 

Yeah, shame what's been happening to JMMA. You guys remember Yuki Nakai? That dude's a legend. 

If Mamoru doesn't come to UFC flyweight division, I'm going to be so mad.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 20, 2011)

Nakai was a great person. Lost his right eye to that fuckhead Gerard whatever, and kept it a secret to keep MMA from getting bad press.

Watching guys like Sakurai and Gomi in their primes makes me bummed after what they've become now. I'm going to be so stoked when Cerrone decimates Nate Diaz, hated seeing him sub Gomi.

There are still some relevant Japanese guys in the fight game, Lion Takeshi, Kazuyuki Miyata, Mamoru, obviously Hatsu Hioki and Yushin Okami.

And yeah, I think there's a huge chance we'll see a Japanese flyweight champ in the UFC. A big handful of the flyweight rankings are Japanese.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 20, 2011)

Is that why you don't like Nick; his fights with Gomi and Mach? 



:ho

He's also a massive JMMA fan (or was). He has said that when people he was training with loved Couture and Liddell, his favourites were Genki, Penn, Mach, Gomi etc. Obviously he favours PRIDE over the UFC too.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 20, 2011)

I think Nick is one of the best fighters in the world, no doubt. I just dislike his personality.

Nate is a little more annoying, just cause of the fact he's so cocky, when all you have to do is put him up against someone with a relative understanding of wrestling and he gets rag dolled.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 20, 2011)

Gomi used to be a good technical boxer until he fell in love with his power and lost some of it.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 20, 2011)

Technical volume punchers like the Diaz brothers are the kryptonite of sluggers like Gomi. Nate dominated him on the feet and the ground, can't take away from his victory. Still pissed me off.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 20, 2011)

Yeah, that was Nate's most impressive win imo.

It looks like Nick will be training more with my boy Andre Ward. Noice.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 21, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Mir proved he has better BJJ than Nog.



Dude, fishing rod.

 :ho 



Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Stand-up...
> 
> 1) Lyoto
> 2) Bones
> ...



I said without Bones. And Shogun gets hit alot more than Rampage, Rampage's hands are much crisper.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 21, 2011)

Good God, Overeem is probably literally the most overrated fighter of all time. Rarely have I seen a guy being rated so highly while having so little to show for it.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 21, 2011)

Rampage has better boxing, but Shogun mixes his striking up much more effectively than Rampage, meaning he's the better striker.

At least that's how I see it.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 21, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Rampage has better boxing, but Shogun mixes his striking up much more effectively than Rampage, meaning he's the better striker.
> 
> At least that's how I see it.



Shogun is definitely the more complete striker, but I feel his ability to cover distance is the more noteworthy trait. Rampage mostly waits for people to come to him. He has trouble catching people that pick shots from the outside.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 21, 2011)

Maybe Rampage should train with Shogun.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 21, 2011)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Gomi used to be a good technical boxer until he fell in love with his power and lost some of it.



Gomi was never technical lol. He's always had this style, it is just that people have advance beyond his striking.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 21, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Good God, Overeem is probably literally the most overrated fighter of all time. Rarely have I seen a guy being rated so highly while having so little to show for it.



*cough*Brock Lesnar*cough*


Eh, he's had his moments. Knocked out Badr Hari and Peter Aerts. Beat Belfort twice. Most of his losses were to top guys like Shogun and Liddell, so I think there's some leeway with his losses.

I mean Brock will probably destroy him but I'm hoping to God Alistair gets a guillotine off of one of the takedowns. 




Violent By Design said:


> Gomi was never technical lol. He's always had this style, it is just that people have advance beyond his striking.



He wasn't technical per se, but he was still a good boxer. He was a good boxer with heavy hands and an iron chin, who also had a potent ground game.

Same formula for Sakurai, too.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 21, 2011)

I want to see Brock win just 'cause. 

Of course this is a lose/lose for Brock.

If he wins, he beat a tired, jetlagged Overeem who didn't have enough time to train due to his mom and tests and horse meat.

If he loses he is exposed and should go back to the WWE.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 22, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Rampage has better boxing, but Shogun mixes his striking up much more effectively than Rampage, meaning he's the better striker.
> 
> At least that's how I see it.



Let's put it like this: Had shogun had Rampage's defense, he might've beaten Dan. Had Rampage had Shogun's offensive unpredictability, he might've gotten to Jones.



Gallic Rush said:


> Shogun is definitely the more complete striker, but I feel his ability to cover distance is the more noteworthy trait. Rampage mostly waits for people to come to him. He has trouble catching people that pick shots from the outside.



Like against JJ and Forrest? 



The Fireball Kid said:


> *cough*Brock Lesnar*cough*
> 
> 
> Eh, he's had his moments. *Knocked out Badr Hari and Peter Aerts. Beat Belfort twice.* Most of his losses were to top guys like Shogun and Liddell, so I think there's some leeway with his losses.
> ...



Brock Lesnar won the UFC HW strap and defended it twice, that's better than anything that Overeem has achieved. He did that like in his 4th, 5th and 6th fight. He utterly dominated Mir on the ground. He has alot to show for his hype.

Yet people bitch about his WWE background, and how he "danced" against Cain, as if Overeem literally turning his back and running away against Kharitonov was much better.


Belfort is a middleweight with half of Overeem's reach. Aerts and Hari are not MMA fighters. (also, Hari destroyed him in the rematch) Aerts loss to Overeem in the final was partly because he was in a 3 round war against Semmy Schilt, you know, the guy that's 7 foot tall and weighs 300 pounds, has an iron chin, hits like a truck, and has destroyed the field in K-1 on more than one occasion. 

Meanwhile, Overeem had to fight G?khan Saki in the semis, a guy who is about as big as Vitor Belfort, who came in with a destroyed right arm and STILL was schooling Overeem until Reem kicked his demolished arm.

And once more, NOT MMA but even if it counted, it's highly questionable.



CrazyMoronX said:


> I want to see Brock win just 'cause.
> 
> Of course this is a lose/lose for Brock.
> 
> ...


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 22, 2011)

Btw, I feel for those whose wins are hard to understand for TUF noobs or FOX noobs. BJ Penn beating Gomi was a huge fucking deal at the time, now Edgar turds go all "LOLOL EDGAR BEAT HIM TWICE, BJ'S RECORD IS 16-8 EDGAR IS THE LW GOAT"

BJ beat credible opponents in devastating fashion rather than having his clock cleaned multiple times and squeaking out decisions. His losses are mostly above LW and in lightweight, he lost to Pulver and Edgar only. 

Same with anyone who has beaten Arona. Shogun finishing him like he did was as much as a big deal like JJ doing what he did this year.



Funny thing that BJ was like Rousey at one point though.


----------



## Teach (Dec 22, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Good God, Overeem is probably literally the most overrated fighter of all time. Rarely have I seen a guy being rated so highly while having so little to show for it.



Lol what? How is he overrated?

He has great striking with great ground game. Cardio is basically the only problem he has.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 22, 2011)

Teach said:


> Lol what? How is he overrated?
> 
> He has great striking with great ground game. Cardio is basically the only problem for him.



 See what i mean?

He is the most overrated fighter of all time, possibly.

If his stand up is so good, how come a mediocre striker like Werdum tooled him standing?



He has yet to achieve much in his MMA career and no, winning the SF belt against Paul Buentello doesn't cut it.


----------



## Teach (Dec 22, 2011)

You didn't watch the fight apparently. Alistair knocked him down repeatedly in that fight. Landing glancing blows and jabs doesn't mean Alistair got tooled by Werdum in striking.

He has extremely underrated ground game also. The dude won some european ADCC tourneys IIRC.


I want Gokhan Saki in UFC, I want him there for simple reason of dethroning AS and his overrated striking. Just learn some TDD and learn to stand-up when you're on the ground and you're basically good to go.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 22, 2011)

K1 guys never do very well in MMA. Saki had one MMA fight and got KOed. 

I agree Overeem is over rated, Aokiji, I was just pointing out the fact that he did have some notable wins.

Besides, Brock isn't all that great either. He got a title shot with a record of 2-1, with a victories over Heath Herring and that shitty Korean guy. He beat an undersized, aged Couture. He would've lost to Carwin, had Carwin paced himself. Got baby shook by Cain. His only respectable win is over Mir. Not saying he's a bad fighter, but I'm using the logic you're using on Reem.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 22, 2011)

Werdum "tooled" Overeem = you not knowing anything about fighting. Let me guess, you're going to reply with compustrike or some shit


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 22, 2011)

Teach said:


> You didn't watch the fight apparently. Alistair knocked him down repeatedly in that fight. Landing glancing blows and jabs doesn't mean Alistair got tooled by Werdum in striking..





I wouldn't say he outstruck Overeem if it didn't happen.

"WERDUM FLOPPED TO THE GROUND EVERYTIME" except when he got "knocked down" and I need an excuse for AO getting outdone in the stand up department.



The Fireball Kid said:


> K1 guys never do very well in MMA. Saki had one MMA fight and got KOed.
> 
> I agree Overeem is over rated, Aokiji, I was just pointing out the fact that he did have some notable wins.
> 
> Besides, Brock isn't all that great either. He got a title shot with a record of 2-1, with a victories over Heath Herring and that shitty Korean guy. He beat an undersized, aged Couture. He would've lost to Carwin, had Carwin paced himself. Got baby shook by Cain. His only respectable win is over Mir. Not saying he's a bad fighter, but I'm using the logic you're using on Reem.



Bottomline: he has done more than Overeem at this point.



Violent By Design said:


> Werdum "tooled" Overeem = you not knowing anything about fighting. Let me guess, you're going to reply with compustrike or some shit



Werdum outdid him in the stand up, that's not even debatable.


Anyway, now to something humorous:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfqnk3_56yU[/YOUTUBE]

 Lol at Lawler's face when Tiki says it. Also, Rogan with his hard on for leg kicks.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 22, 2011)

it's not debatable? Overeem hurt Werdum, Werdum did not hurt Overeem. Wow, Werdum made Overeem cover up and run away, Werdum actually got stunned by body blows, and he did get knocked down at least once. 

and werdum has mediocre stand up? lol, okay, obviously you have not seen him fight much. he would out box Lesnar badly.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 22, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> it's not debatable? Overeem hurt Werdum, Werdum did not hurt Overeem. Wow, Werdum made Overeem cover up and run away, Werdum actually got stunned by body blows, and he did get knocked down at least once.
> 
> and werdum has mediocre stand up? lol, okay, obviously you have not seen him fight much. he would out box Lesnar badly.



fanfiction.com     

And Werdum DOES have mediocre standup. Being better than Lesnar is not an achievement. Also, unlike Werdum, Lesnar can take Overeem down and he can KO him standing more than Werdum can, since he has more power.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 23, 2011)

I saw Werdum getting the better of Overeem in the stand up myself, but let me explain what I mean by that:

He didn't hurt him, but he did dictate the pace, sent Overeem backward, had him covering up quite a bit. For a the best striker in the HW division that is kind of sad. Given that performance, I'd say JDS knocks Overeem out pretty easily as does Cain, possibly Carwin, and even Frank Mir if he went in smart.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 23, 2011)

I mean, look at who Werdum has fought over the years. Andrei Arlovski, JDS, Big Nog, Sergei Kharitonov, Fedor Emilianenko, Mike Kyle, Antonio Silva, and Brandon Vera. All high level strikers. It's not hard to be out shined by those guys.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 23, 2011)

Welcome to the K-1 Werdum era.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 24, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I saw Werdum getting the better of Overeem in the stand up myself, but let me explain what I mean by that:
> 
> He didn't hurt him, but he did dictate the pace, sent Overeem backward, had him covering up quite a bit. For a the best striker in the HW division that is kind of sad. Given that performance, I'd say JDS knocks Overeem out pretty easily as does Cain, possibly Carwin, and even Frank Mir if he went in smart.



Overeem had injuries before that fight and I believe him to be a bit tentative, as said before. I think his chances against JDS would be higher than most people (who realize that his stand up is overrated) think. JDs doesn't mix it up. Fighting against JDS would be like a kickboxing match and he has shows to be one of the best in that area, lucky draws in WGP or not. 

For a guy who is that much better than Overeem, JDS would be relatively easy for Overeem.

Cain would be a nightmare though.  



The Fireball Kid said:


> I mean, look at who Werdum has fought over the years. Andrei Arlovski, JDS, Big Nog, Sergei Kharitonov, Fedor Emilianenko, Mike Kyle, Antonio Silva, and Brandon Vera. All high level strikers. It's not hard to be out shined by those guys.



He looked very sloppy even as he was outstriking Overeem, armpunches and such.

And honestly, not everyone on your list is really a good striker. Arlovski, JDS, Kharitonov, Fedor, Vera would be good strikers. Nog is ok and Bigfoot seems to suck. Don't know much about Kyle.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 24, 2011)

Kyle is more of a knock out artist, but Nog and Big foot have good boxing. But, you get my point. Werdum isn't a bad striker, but in comparison to a huge portion of the guys he's fought, he sucks.

EDIT: Don't mistake me as saying he's high level, though. Just not awful.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 24, 2011)

Prime Gomi vs Edgar, 3 rounds, in a ring, who wins? 

Seriously, Edgar would look like he is cruising to an easy UD, than get caught and finished. 

People forget that despite not being beaten, he looked very beatable in his last 2 fights.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 24, 2011)

Both have iron chins, I don't see either getting KOed. Edgar has the more technical boxing of to the two, but Gomi is bigger (not like it matters ) and possesses more KO power. Edgar is the better wrestler, but Gomi's isn't anything to write off either.

Probably Edgar. I feel like he'd stick and move and then tire out Gomi with takedowns. Gomi would swing wildly, and would rock Edgar early. Hell, I could see Gomi possibly getting an RNC.

Idk, I love Gomi but Edgar is just very skilled.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 24, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Both have iron chins, I don't see either getting KOed. Edgar has the more technical boxing of to the two, but Gomi is bigger (not like it matters ) and possesses more KO power. Edgar is the better wrestler, but Gomi's isn't anything to write off either.
> 
> Probably Edgar. I feel like he'd stick and move and then tire out Gomi with takedowns. Gomi would swing wildly, and would rock Edgar early. Hell, I could see Gomi possibly getting an RNC.
> 
> Idk, I love Gomi but Edgar is just very skilled.



If Edgar has such an iron chin, why was he broderline unconscious in both his last fights?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 24, 2011)

Having an iron chin doesn't mean it's IMPOSSIBLE to be knocked out. It's a combination of their resilience and how hard a guy has to hit them to KO them. Gray Maynard was beating Edgar within an inch of his life and Edgar came back and knocked him out.

Same goes for guys like Chris Leben and Hendo. Rampage rocked Hendo numerous times, like his legs gave out rocked, and Hendo has arguably the best chin in MMA. Leben has got rocked too.

I think having and iron chins means being able to fight through having your head knocked off.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 24, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Having an iron chin doesn't mean it's IMPOSSIBLE to be knocked out. It's a combination of their resilience and how hard a guy has to hit them to KO them. Gray Maynard was beating Edgar within an inch of his life and Edgar came back and knocked him out.
> 
> Same goes for guys like Chris Leben and Hendo. Rampage rocked Hendo numerous times, like his legs gave out rocked, and Hendo has arguably the best chin in MMA. Leben has got rocked too.
> 
> I think having and iron chins means being able to fight through having your head knocked off.



Hendo in no way has the best chin in MMA.  

I can see p4p punching power, but chin? Shogun's chin is better, for starters.

I would also proposition Hunt, but OWAIT, HE GOT KNOCKED OUT HE CAN'T POSSIBLY BE THE BEST.

Just like Mir is better than Nog on the ground because he subbed him.

Sorry for digressing, but MMA fans are some of the most simplicistic, moronic people I have ever seen.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 24, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Hendo in no way has the best chin in MMA.
> 
> I can see p4p punching power, but chin? Shogun's chin is better, for starters.
> 
> ...



Why is Shogun's better than Hendo's? I was just making a point, I wasn't arguing who has the best chin in MMA. I was just saying Frankie Edgar has a good chin. No need to be an asshole.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 24, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Why is Shogun's better than Hendo's? I was just making a point, I wasn't arguing who has the best chin in MMA. I was just saying Frankie Edgar has a good chin. No need to be an asshole.



And this ladies and gentleman, is why communication on the internet fails.

Asshole? Really? 

Shogun's is better than Hendo's because he has taken titanic shots and not been knocked down/out. Hendo never took shots the same way Shogun did against him. Then there is the flying knee of JBJ.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 24, 2011)

Aokiji said:
			
		

> Sorry for digressing, but MMA fans are some of the most *simplicistic, moronic people* I have ever seen.



How is that not being an asshole? You called me a "simplistic moron" for having an opinion.

Anyways, I don't care who has the best chin. It wasn't the point of the argument.

Back to the topic of Edgar's chin: it's good. No one takes the kind of punishment he did against Maynard in both the 2nd and 3rd fight without having an iron chin. Especially the 2nd fight with Maynard, he was getting dropped over and over. Maynard had size, strength and punching power on his side and still couldn't knockout Edgar, who is like a weight class smaller than Maynard.


----------



## Matariki (Dec 24, 2011)

Anderson Silva has the best chin


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 24, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> How is that not being an asshole? You called me a "simplistic moron" for having an opinion.
> 
> Anyways, I don't care who has the best chin. It wasn't the point of the argument.
> 
> Back to the topic of Edgar's chin: it's good. No one takes the kind of punishment he did against Maynard in both the 2nd and 3rd fight without having an iron chin. Especially the 2nd fight with Maynard, he was getting dropped over and over. Maynard had size, strength and punching power on his side and still couldn't knockout Edgar, who is like a weight class smaller than Maynard.



1. I wasn't referring to you.

2. Saying "he couldn't knock him out" would be flattering statement, he may not have lost by knockout, but honestly, I wouldn't have been suprised if the ref had stopped the fight in the 1st fight.

It is definitely not a stretch to say he can get KOed, if Maynard is a little less clumsy that fight is stopped. 

He is hurtable and by extension, finishable.



Seiko said:


> Anderson Silva has the best chin



Got dropped by pillowfisted Sonnen.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 25, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pnlRvW6mLQ[/YOUTUBE]

Fight of the century.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 27, 2011)

This is the guy who beat Ernesto Hoost. Twice.

Sad day for Bob Sapp.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 27, 2011)

Yeah, Bob Sapp needs to hang 'em up and just do pro wrestling in Japan.

He's so famous in Japan it's retarded. He's like the Michael Jordan of MMA.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 27, 2011)

I believe that's Travis Lutter. 

Dude beat Cyril Abidi and Ernesto Hoost in his first 4 fights. Impressive for a guy like him. At least he can retire having beaten two of the best k1 fighters of all time.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 27, 2011)

He was doing rather well in K-1 for a while there.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 27, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> This is the guy who beat Ernesto Hoost. Twice.
> 
> Sad day for Bob Sapp.



Tbf the first one was on cuts and the second one was a questionable stoppage. 



The Fireball Kid said:


> I believe that's Travis Lutter.
> 
> Dude beat Cyril Abidi and Ernesto Hoost in his first 4 fights. Impressive for a guy like him. At least he can retire having beaten two of the best k1 fighters of all time.



 Dude, Abidi isn't one of the GOATs he is like Krazyhorse, talented, but didn't live up to his potential. 

OK he was more talented than Krazyhorse and had more meanigful wins, but calling him a great would stretch it.



CrazyMoronX said:


> He was doing rather well in K-1 for a while there.



Honestly, Mirko exposed him badly. Then he fought Kimo in one of the most pathetic fights ever. People stopped believing the hype. Then he got DQ'd again. At least since Aerts finished him in like 20 seconds, he was done.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4bhx3uiEFM[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 27, 2011)

Yeah, I remember that Kimo fight. 

Once people figure out your weakness is getting punched in the face, they tend to punch you in the face a lot.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 27, 2011)

Man, why the hell is the event on Friday.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 27, 2011)

It kind of fucks up everything. 

I have to try to get across town to get to the bar to see it, but I don't get off of work until 6pm, and the event starts at 7pm.

I'm worried.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 27, 2011)

Hopefully you make it in time dude. 

I might have to skip it.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 27, 2011)

Skip the biggest HW fight of all time? 

I don't want to miss it. Shit's gonna be pretty good. Nate vs Cerrone will be epic.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 27, 2011)

Yeah, I don't want to miss it but I have some plans that night. 

Is it just this event that's on Friday or is it for every future one? I heard the time change for events is going back to what it was previously.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 27, 2011)

People make plans? 


It's only Friday for this one due to the New Years thing. That happened before a couple of times, too, but it's pretty rare.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 27, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Yeah, I remember that Kimo fight.
> 
> Once people figure out your weakness is getting punched in the face, they tend to punch you in the face a lot.



His gastank and glass body/legs also factors into it.



CrazyMoronX said:


> *Skip the biggest HW fight of all time? *
> 
> I don't want to miss it. Shit's gonna be pretty good. Nate vs Cerrone will be epic.



I dunno, Lesnar vs Carwin might have something to say about that.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 27, 2011)

Bob Sapp is made of glass.

Giant slabs of black, muscular glass.

:distrated


I think Alistair's biceps are more huger than Shane's at least.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 27, 2011)

Title fight. Both guys looking incredible cuz they trashed Mir. 

In this case we have Brock who took a beating in his last fight and Alistair, coming of a disgraceful performance against Werdum. (in b4 somebody getting  ) 

With Carwin and Brock, you could imagine that these are the baddest people on the planet, MMA wise. Now, meh.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 28, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Tbf the first one was on cuts and the second one was a questionable stoppage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Abidi was waaaaaay more talented than Charles Bennett (if that's who you're talking about, I assume you are cause his nickname is Krazyhorse).

I never said he was a GOAT, either, high level is a better word for it. I mean, compared to Sapp, they're the best eva.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 28, 2011)

Diet Carwin still hits like a truck though. 

I wonder if he'll just retire after losing a couple more fights or something. He isn't that young.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 28, 2011)

I wish Mark Kerr had never been addicted to opiates. The guy was a monster, he would have been one of the best of all time if he had stayed clean. His GNP was legendary, and his grappling was mad good. Dude has submission grappling wins over Almeida and Barnett.

He was the only guy out of Hammerhouse who seemed like he knew how to progress as a fighter, not just rely on brute strength and wrestling. 12-1 to 15-11, what a fall from grace.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 28, 2011)

Poor Smashing Machine. 

Luckily we now have Brock Lesnar to pick up the mantle as greatest HW fighter of all time.


----------



## Matariki (Dec 28, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvFN5UkxC4o[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 28, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Abidi was waaaaaay more talented than Charles Bennett (if that's who you're talking about, I assume you are cause his nickname is Krazyhorse).
> 
> I never said he was a GOAT, either, high level is a better word for it. I mean, compared to Sapp, they're the best eva.



OK, I just couldn't think of anyone else in MMA who fits the bill.

I don't know who you could compare to him.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 28, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> OK, I just couldn't think of anyone else in MMA who fits the bill.
> 
> I don't know who you could compare to him.



Brandon Vera is a good comparison. Came into the sport and fucked up some big name guys, for Abidi it was Aerts and Sefo, for Vera it was Mir. Were supposed to be the next big things, ended up being inconsistent, losing to guys they should have beat.

You're right, though, I over hyped Abidi. Guy got knocked out by Rampage and Goodridge in K1. And, I mean, Bob Sapp too.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 29, 2011)

Speaking of Gary Goodridge.


The PPV is on at 10pm Eastern instead of the new 9pm.  That means that I'm gonna have to sit at the bar after work for two fucking hours.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm watching from my Xbox in HD... for free. 

But, really, why not just stream it online? That's what I do. I couldn't stand to watch it in a  bar full of idiots only watching the event for Lesnar. I don't even think I'd like a live event. Too much going on, I just wanna enjoy the fight.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 29, 2011)

Fuck you. 

/jealousashell


I don't have the Internet at home.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 29, 2011)

Whaaat? How do you post on here then? Phone?


----------



## Kuya (Dec 29, 2011)

Dat Press Conference


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

Some of us live in Germany and can watch all fights for free on UFC.com


----------



## Gaja (Dec 30, 2011)

Yeah, just watched the weigh in replay and 141 is gonna be epics... 

Cerrone vs Diaz is gonna be a barn burner, and holly shit is Overeem huge/Lesnar be pumped-crazy. Excited MMA fan here. xD


----------



## Koshirae (Dec 30, 2011)

Looking forward to this, in fact I can't ****ing wait.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 30, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Whaaat? How do you post on here then? Phone?



At work.

I have a computer at work with Internets on it.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

Koshirae said:


> Looking forward to this, in fact I can't ****ing wait.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

Lol at sherdog again. They constantly use Stefan Struve as a counter example to why JJ reach sin't the main reason for his success. Problem


























HE'S A FUCKING HEAVYWEIGHT. You know, people who have much more reach than LHWs.

Seriously, his cumguzzling fans want to makes us believe than having a an almost 10 inch reach advantage isn't a ginormous advantage that makes your domination way less impressive.

And before someone starts crying ala "BLAH YOU JUST MAD CUZ HE KILLED YOUR IDOLS" () the same argument has been used against the like of Semmy Schilt, Lennox Lewis etc.

When you have a ton of size or a ton of reach dominating your opponents becomes much more easy. It's the reason why Brock Lesnar got less credit for beating Couture and it should be the reason why JJ gets less credit for doing what he did.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 30, 2011)

Actually the size differences in HW and LHW aren't all that big save for a few people.

The argument is flawed because Struve doesn't know how to fight long whereas Jones does. Reach doesn't count for shit if you don't utilize it. That's only a plus for Jones.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Actually the size differences in HW and LHW aren't all that big save for a few people.
> 
> The argument is flawed because Struve doesn't know how to fight long whereas Jones does. Reach doesn't count for shit if you don't utilize it. That's only a plus for Jones.



Obviously, simply having a reach advantage doesn't mean you will Jones your opponent everytime. Struve isn't half the fighter that JJ is. But having a TEN INCH reach advantage DOES take away from his domination. It raises questions as "would he also dominate if he didn't have 10 reach on them". 

I mean it's nothing new really, Brock had it because of size. Many other fighters had it too, Lewis, Schilt. People saying "well, it's not like he doesn't have blablabla inches of reach on them" is something that they had to hear for a while.

Wanderlei doesn't get as much credit as one would think for beating Sakuraba 3 times cuz he outweighed him by some margin. People go gaga over Fedor and Edgar cuz they are smaller then many of their opponents. Pacquiao gets a lot of credit for beating bigger opponents. 

Size and reach does matter and having a (and I repeat this for dramatic effect) TEN INCH REACH ADVANTAGE does take away from your dominance. I mean sure, it's not like he's a bum who just happens to have long arms but it's does lower his greatness in a historical sense. (although I still consider him P4P #1, never understood how people could possibly believe Anderson is better than him now)


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 30, 2011)

I don't think you can take very much away from Jones just because he has a ridiculous reach advantage. It's just as silly as everyone crediting Brock's wins to size--he is a seriously skilled wrestler and a powerful striker.

If you take Jones's reach away would he be as dominate? I think he would be. The reason is because he is so powerful, creative, and dynamic. The way he ragdolls just about everyone he fights has nothing to do with reach. Spinning back elbows, knee kicks, monkey kung-fu stance. He's creative. He's smart. 

If you watch his fights a lot of his most dominate matches took place on the ground anyway due to his monstrous elbows.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I don't think you can take very much away from Jones just because he has a ridiculous reach advantage. It's just as silly as everyone crediting Brock's wins to size--he is a seriously skilled wrestler and a powerful striker.
> 
> If you take Jones's reach away would he be as dominate? I think he would be. The reason is because he is so powerful, creative, and dynamic. The way he ragdolls just about everyone he fights has nothing to do with reach. Spinning back elbows, knee kicks, monkey kung-fu stance. He's creative. He's smart.
> 
> If you watch his fights a lot of his most dominate matches took place on the ground anyway due to his monstrous elbows.



10 inches dude. 

Also if he didn't have that, he'd be a lot more vulnerable standing. And his montrous elbows are kind of a byproduct of his length isn't it I mean most people don't have these upper arms.

Also that fight against Rampage was almost all reach. Against machida? meh debatable. against Shogun he'd have prolly won anyway since he can ragdoll him.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 30, 2011)

I don't think the long arms help him all that much in the elbow department (at least not on the ground--on the feet, yeah). I mean, a lot of fighters have great elbows without 84.5" reaches.

His choke against Machida would have been less effective if it wasn't for his long arms I guess.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 30, 2011)

I really can't fucking stand Jacob Volkmann.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 30, 2011)

I can't stand not being able to watch prelims.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 30, 2011)

You didn't miss much. Volkmann laying on top of Escudero for 3 rounds, Escudero almost getting a north south/front choke, and then Volkmann called out Edgar and then made some lame joke about Obama.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 30, 2011)

I'm just hoping Kim, Njokuani, Cerrone, and the Reem win tonight.


----------



## Xerces (Dec 30, 2011)

Does anyone have a good link to a stream?


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

WHAT A HARAI GOSHI


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

Expect judges to give it a 10-9 round.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 30, 2011)

Xerces said:


> Does anyone have a good link to a stream?



ESPN Stream


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 30, 2011)

The way Hettes is throwing Pham is definitely reminiscent of Jones/Bonnar.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> The way Hettes is throwing Pham is definitely reminiscent of Jones/Bonnar.



This guy has sick grappling.

Phan needs to circle and just throw.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

What a guy.


----------



## LouDAgreat (Dec 30, 2011)

Kudos to Phan for lasting to the end with all those punches and elbows.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 30, 2011)

Was really pulling for Vladdy.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

See this is where I disagree with people. Just because it was an quick finish doesn't mean it's impressive.


----------



## Nidaime|Erokage-sama (Dec 30, 2011)

John Fitch is about to SMASH Hendricks!  STRAIGHT OUTTA THE 260 IN THIS MUTHA!


----------



## Nidaime|Erokage-sama (Dec 30, 2011)

Wait...what?


----------



## Caedus (Dec 30, 2011)

12 seconds... damn haha


----------



## eHav (Dec 30, 2011)

HAHAHAHA FITCH


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 30, 2011)

Wow. I really didn't expect that.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

WELL FUCK 

Fitch should've shot immediately.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

Oh no

"ANOTHER GUY GSP COULDN'T FINISH GETS FINISHED"



GSP throw the kitchen sink at him and probably knocked him out several times standing in that fight.


----------



## Nidaime|Erokage-sama (Dec 30, 2011)

God damn, didn't expect that.  That was fun.  Poor Fitch.  He went to a local High School (Carroll) here in Fort Wayne.  I'm still a fan, JOHN!!!!!!!

BOILER BRAWN!


----------



## nadinkrah (Dec 30, 2011)

Nidaime|Erokage-sama said:


> John Fitch is about to SMASH Hendricks!  STRAIGHT OUTTA THE 260 IN THIS MUTHA!



lmfao......


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 30, 2011)

What the fuck, Cerrone. Come on, my picks have been shit tonight!


----------



## eHav (Dec 30, 2011)

lmao what the hell is up with cerrone? seriously


----------



## Shadow (Dec 30, 2011)

Mannnn Nate Diaz is fucking Cerrone up lol


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 30, 2011)

Diaz looked great, I have to admit. I can't stand him, but he destroyed Cerrone. My picks have been shit.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> What the fuck, Cerrone. Come on, my picks have been shit tonight!



Hey at least it wasn't Gomi sucking. 

Seriously, he shoulda tasken his chances with TDs.


----------



## Nidaime|Erokage-sama (Dec 30, 2011)

Did anyone else hear Joe Rogan?

"The Punches that land are the most dangerous ones."


lol


----------



## Raging Bird (Dec 30, 2011)

What time is the main event at?


----------



## Ae (Dec 30, 2011)

WTFFFFFFFFFFFFF! COWBOY WAS SUPPOSE TO WIN!


----------



## Nidaime|Erokage-sama (Dec 30, 2011)

I believe it's the next fight.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

Nidaime|Erokage-sama said:


> Did anyone else hear Joe Rogan?
> 
> "The Punches that land are the most dangerous ones."
> 
> ...



he means that landing is more impiortant than heaving lead in your gloves.


----------



## eHav (Dec 30, 2011)

Raging Bird said:


> What time is the main event at?



its about to beguin


----------



## nadinkrah (Dec 30, 2011)

Lesnar got this


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 30, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Hey at least it wasn't Gomi sucking.
> 
> Seriously, he shoulda tasken his chances with TDs.



-_- Watching that broke my heart.

I've got Brock by a first round TKO. Hoping Reem gets the win, though.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

I hope Brock wins by standing KO.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 30, 2011)

Man Overeem is out to win.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 30, 2011)

It's like, Reem is a good striker, but I just don't think he's the "most technical striker in the HW division". In all honesty, I'd say Brandon Vera is a better striker. Maybe even Fedor.


----------



## Shadow (Dec 30, 2011)

Brock's defense will decide this fight.   

Overeem is just a monster really.  I've never seen a big guy move like this.


----------



## eHav (Dec 30, 2011)

omfg im so pumped right now


----------



## Ae (Dec 31, 2011)

WHATTTTTT THEEE HELLLL


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 31, 2011)

WOW. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.

I CAN'T EVEN PUT WORDS INTO THIS.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 31, 2011)

WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Shadow (Dec 31, 2011)

Yup Horrible Defense by Lesnar so far


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 31, 2011)

What an embarrassment


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Dec 31, 2011)

Yeah, I watched this on a stream and the first thought that popped into my head was why the hell would anyone actually pay money for that?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 31, 2011)

Reem looked great.


----------



## Raging Bird (Dec 31, 2011)

Wow .


----------



## Nidaime|Erokage-sama (Dec 31, 2011)

Wow.  Uberreem is a fucking animal.


----------



## LouDAgreat (Dec 31, 2011)

Go back to the WWE Lesnar.


----------



## Ae (Dec 31, 2011)

Retired? 
WWE!


----------



## Nidaime|Erokage-sama (Dec 31, 2011)

WOW, BROCK RETIRED.


----------



## Tiger (Dec 31, 2011)

Brock's done. Wow.


----------



## Raging Bird (Dec 31, 2011)

Time for a return to WWE.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 31, 2011)

Lol at people going gaga over Overeem for this.

This was more Lesnar's failure than Overeems success.

This is the worst case scenario: now fanboys will shit themselves over how great Overeem looked.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 31, 2011)

I respect Lesnar. He did more in his 8 fight career than most fighters do in a 20+ fight career.


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Dec 31, 2011)

Lesnar is going to become WWE Champion in 2012.


----------



## Shadow (Dec 31, 2011)

No way for Lesnar to make money now other than go back to WWE.   I'd love to see him in Wrestlemania against Taker


----------



## Caedus (Dec 31, 2011)

JDS vs Reem is gonna be awesome


----------



## LouDAgreat (Dec 31, 2011)

They could do a storyline around Lesnar saying wrestling was fake.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 31, 2011)

This is literally the worst thing that could've happened. A musclebound guy finishing the previous musclebound monster. 

Now this overrated guy has a semi legitimate win to his name.

"OMG JDS ass is grass."

The sad thing is, that might actually true, but they arrive at the right conclusions for the wrong reasons.


----------



## Raging Bird (Dec 31, 2011)

lol Brock Lesnar in WWE would just be amazing.

Cena vs Lesnar at WM 29.


----------



## Nidaime|Erokage-sama (Dec 31, 2011)

For the record, if ANYONE has shit for Uberreem, it's JDS.  That dude is just a fucking killer.


----------



## martryn (Dec 31, 2011)

Saw this coming.  Brock really only had one shot left.  He needs to take it fucking easy from here on.


----------



## Matariki (Dec 31, 2011)

Reem will destroy JDS in the first round


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 31, 2011)

Nidaime|Erokage-sama said:


> For the record, if ANYONE has shit for Uberreem, it's JDS.  That dude is just a fucking killer.



Cain would rape Overeem.

JDS is the last guy who's happy about this.

Honestly why are people acting as if Overeem is some sort of killer. He should've lost the fight against Werdum, has beaten on cans for pretty much all of his career...





Seiko said:


> Reem will destroy JDS in the first round



Troll


----------



## Xerces (Dec 31, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Cain would rape Overeem.





You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do you? You should try commentating on WWE, maybe you'll see your friend Brock there soon.


----------



## Matariki (Dec 31, 2011)

JDS leaves himself open alot, I don't see him beating the K-1 champion on the feet...


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 31, 2011)

Yes, Werdum, where Overeem beat him, great example. And Werdum isn't a can, so I have no idea why you spam his name as if he is. 

He just ran through Lesnar, but let me guess, Lesnar is now a can now too? I knew you'd be mad that Overeem beat Lesnar's ass badly and come up with some new bull shit. 


Name five heavyweights that you think are good, so when Overeem beats them you can't just pull the "he's a can card". 

Cain would rape him? Based on what? Cain's best win was Lesnar, and Overeem beat him even easier than Cain did. I don't get how you can call Overeem overrated but not Cain seeing as how he is an unproven fighter as well (at least we've seen Overeem fight 50 times over the course of many years), it makes no sense.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 31, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Yes, Werdum, where Overeem beat him, great example. And Werdum isn't a can, so I have no idea why you spam his name as if he is. .



Overeem was gifted a decision.

And Werdum isn't a can that's why I said "cans" AFTER mentioning Werdum's name.



Violent By Design said:


> He just ran through Lesnar, but let me guess, Lesnar is now a can now too? I knew you'd be mad that Overeem beat Lesnar's ass badly and come up with some new bull shit..


 
 You ginormous tool, We ALL knew that whoever wins, it wouldn't be close. I even refused to pick Lesnar as the favourite. But explain this to me: how the hell can ANYONE care about Overeem, the famed K-1 champ, beating probably the p4p worst striker in MMA (ok 2nd worst after Shields and only cuz he got power) in what was pretty much a kickboxing match?

When talking about ow I'm mad about Overeem winning, please look at my post where I stated that he has a good chance of beating JDS. What annoys me at people getting to those conclusions, but for the wrong reasons. It's like that joke the Joker tells to Batman at the end of Killing Joke: sane decision, completely retarded reasons.

And btw, yes, based on what we saw this fight, Brock was far less than we thought. He came in with the most retarded gameplan ever (and unlike Cain vs JDS, this time it's undeniably true) Don't act as if I'm one of those guys. I am capable of being proven wrong. I conceded that JJ is mean after watching him beat Rampage and after 140, I consider him #1 p4p even though most cumguzzlers think Anderson is (and there are few that more wish to see JJ lose than me)

So get out of my face with that shit.



Violent By Design said:


> Name five heavyweights that you think are good, so when Overeem beats them you can't just pull the "he's a can card".


 
Cain, JDS, Mir, Nogueira, Brock of the top of my head.



Violent By Design said:


> Cain would rape him? Based on what? Cain's best win was Lesnar, and Overeem beat him even easier than Cain did. I don't get how you can call Overeem overrated but not Cain seeing as how he is an unproven fighter as well (at least we've seen Overeem fight 50 times over the course of many years), it makes no sense.



How many of those were at HW? And How is Cain an unproven fighter? He held UFC gold. And btw: I said OVERRATED. 

Also how did Overeem "beat him easier than Cain did"? Dude, Lesnar fought Overeem like he is fucking Cheick Kongo. I typically detest these kind of excuses, but Lesnar fighting the way he did was the equivalent of Overeem pulling guard against Lesnar to submit him.

Also, rape was obviously an exaggaration, but Cain is a tough matchup for Reem, much more than JDS. 

People aren't aware how much they are overestimating his skills right now.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 31, 2011)

Anyone have an English stream for the DREAM event?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 31, 2011)

Nevermind, found one.

ESPN Stream


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 31, 2011)

When does Fedor fight?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 31, 2011)

Like, 9AM?


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 31, 2011)

Honestly, sometimes I wonder if it's worth following a sport with fans so hypnotizingly stupid.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Dec 31, 2011)

Missed the fights. 

I went 5/5 in predictions though (except for the result in the Hettes-Phan where I had Hettes subbing him in the 2nd and Gustafsson with the TKO in the 2nd round). 2eZ. 

I'll watch it tomorrow or something.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 31, 2011)

I agree with Aokiji, Reem's striking is over rated. I'm a big Reem fan, but being a "K-1 level striker" hasn't stopped him from being out struck by Shogun Rua, Lil Nog, Ricardo Arona, Sergei Kharitonov, and Chuck Liddell. None of them would be considered "K-1 level strikers". Kharitonov did fight in K-1, though, but he went like 2-2. Mediocre.

JDS and Cain would beat him.


----------



## Mori` (Dec 31, 2011)

HAha Reem tooled Overeem, joy to the world.


----------



## Federer (Dec 31, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Haterade, you in for some bet? If Overeem beats Brock, I am going to wear an MMA related set of your choice. (no gay porn, srsly) If i win....you're gonna rock a Sonnen set. :ho 1 week.



I wanna see that set. 

Abicim.

Anyway, Ubereem.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 31, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> I agree with Aokiji, Reem's striking is over rated. I'm a big Reem fan, but being a "K-1 level striker" hasn't stopped him from being out struck by Shogun Rua, Lil Nog, Ricardo Arona, Sergei Kharitonov, and Chuck Liddell.



- All of those guys are good strikers, and all of them except for Arona are better strikers than most of the HW division (I would love for someone to dispute this).

- Some of those fights were like 7 years ago, before Ovreem even attempted to win the K1 tournaments. So how is that even relevant to discrediting K1 accomplishments? The latest fight you cited was in 2007 against Sergei (who would outstrike many people), that was the same year that Serra KO'd GSP to put things in perspective. 

- Overeem was a young fighter, he has obviously improved.

- Different weight class. A lot of those fights he was beaten after he gassed, he obviously does not cut weight anymore. He also shares quite a strength and size advantage over many HWs, more so then his days at LHW. 

- Doesn't really explain how that is overrated, because his striking back then is still better than most of the HW's in the UFC HW division. The HW's are way behind the LHWs in term of technique, Alistair even from his LHW days has striking that is better than guys like Kongo. He is now noticeably better, so I don't get how he is "overrated", overrated in what way? That he doesn't have great striking? What would that imply, that he has average? Why shouldn't he be the favorite in striking against most other fighters? Other then that, how is he overrated? 




> None of them would be considered "K-1 level strikers".


 They never competed in K-1, and K-1 isn't a level. It is not like you get a certificate that says you are K-1 level, that is like saying you're UFC level. 




> JDS and Cain would beat him.



Read your entire post and then read this, how does any of what you said even support this conclusion? JDS and Cain were not even mentioned or compared to any of the other points or fighters you named.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 31, 2011)

All I hear is "K-1 level striking" when someone mentions Overeem. Obviously Overeem is a great striker, he knocked out Badr Hari. That's a huge testament to his striking abilities. I was just making the point that just because fought in K-1 doesn't mean he can't be out struck (which he has).

And I was just stating I think they'd beat him because people were already discussing the subject, it wasn't really part of the previous part of my post.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 31, 2011)

Aokiji said:


> Overeem was gifted a decision.


Do you really know what that means? Leonard Garcia is gifted decision wins. Overeem was not "gifted" a decision, even if you think Werdum won (which he didn't), I don't get how you can say it was a gift. Overeem had top control (and trolls like to use the come back of, well Werdum pulled guard, uh...in MMA that means you're giving up position just in case you're going to reply with that moronic point), stuffed Werdum's takedown attempts and actually hurt Werdum with his strikes. You make it seem like Werdum was battering Overeem around the cage. 



> And Werdum isn't a can that's why I said "cans" AFTER mentioning Werdum's name.


You spammed Werdum's name over and over again, implying that him "out striking" Overeem was some way to discredit Overeem. It is pretty obvious that you are bringing up Werdum in a negative light. 





> You ginormous tool, We ALL knew that whoever wins, it wouldn't be close. I even refused to pick Lesnar as the favourite.


Wow, I applaud you at discrediting Overeem at every attempt and implying in your post that Brock would be too much to handle, but not having hte balls to actually flat out say you think Brock would win. You really went out on a limb there.



> But explain this to me: how the hell can ANYONE care about Overeem, the famed K-1 champ, beating probably the p4p worst striker in MMA (ok 2nd worst after Shields and only cuz he got power) in what was pretty much a kickboxing match?



Um...you do know how strikers beat wrestlers, right?



> When talking about ow I'm mad about Overeem winning, please look at my post where I stated that he has a good chance of beating JDS. What annoys me at people getting to those conclusions, but for the wrong reasons. It's like that joke the Joker tells to Batman at the end of Killing Joke: sane decision, completely retarded reasons.


Your analogy makes zero sense. 



> And btw, yes, based on what we saw this fight, Brock was far less than we thought.


Far less than what *you* thought obviously. The fight went out excactly as I thought it would.



> He came in with the most retarded gameplan ever


He did? Considering how short the fight is, I don't get how you can draw that conclusion. The fact that you called it a "kickboxing" match makes me think that you actually think Brock wanted to strike. Believe it or not, fighters have to feel out their opponents before going for shots, and Overeem had a great stance and allowed very little openings for Brock to take advantage of. Once Overeem stuffed Brock's single leg, it then depleted Brock's moral, not to mention Brock was lossed after he got hit. I assure you his gameplan was to get it to the ground, if that is where you're getting at. 



> I am capable of being proven wrong. I conceded that JJ is mean after watching him beat Rampage and after 140, I consider him #1 p4p even though most cumguzzlers think Anderson is (and there are few that more wish to see JJ lose than me)


 It doesn't seem like it. I would hope you would think JJ is "mean" after the way he has dominated people. I'm sorry, but is that really suppose to make you look humble? That you admitted that Jon Jones is good after he steamrolled Rampage? I would hope you would have thought he was mean after he beat Rua, considering Rua is better than Quinton. 






> Cain, JDS, Mir, Nogueira, Brock of the top of my head.


 And Overeem would be favorited to knock most of those guys out, so how is he "overrated" (what the hell does that even mean, overrated by who and in what way? everyone is overrated and underrated). I don't get why you have so much irrational hate for Overeem (and Anderson Silva while we're at it). 





> How many of those were at HW?


 I don't know, maybe 35/47? Why would Overeem's technique be any worse from his LHW days? Makes little sense to me. If anything, the "new age" of UFC hws in JDS, Lesnar, Cain and Carwin were more overrated because they were all new when they were projected to be the end all to be all. Overeem at the very least has years upon years of MMA experience, which seems to mean nothing to you. 



> And How is Cain an unproven fighter?


He hasn't had many fights, hasn't fought against a lot of names, and he's really only had two huge wins (Nogueria and Lesnar). You make it seem like we actually know so much about Cain, when we really don't. His attributes are even less known than Overeem's. 



> He held UFC gold.


 Brock Lesnar has held gold before, and you're going to tell me that he is a trial and tested fighter? Cain may have had the gold, but JDS should have been ranked ahead of him. JDS is the only fighter in the HW division that has a long streak against named opponents. Cain got catapulted after a high ranking win against Nogueria, and of course he beat the champ in Brock. But that in no way fleshes out how good he is, he does not have many fights, and has not been fighting for very long. Whether he has the gold or not hardly makes a difference, there is a reason why the HW division is called shallow. 



> Also how did Overeem "beat him easier than Cain did"?


This question is so silly that I am going to assume that this is rhetorical despite the quotes. 



> Dude, Lesnar fought Overeem like he is fucking Cheick Kongo.


You really need to watch fights more analyitically if you acutlaly think this.



> I typically detest these kind of excuses, but Lesnar fighting the way he did was the equivalent of Overeem pulling guard against Lesnar to submit him.


Wow, you're actually being serious. 



> Also, rape was obviously an exaggeration, but Cain is a tough matchup for Reem, much more than JDS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 31, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> All I hear is "K-1 level striking" when someone mentions Overeem. Obviously Overeem is a great striker, he knocked out Badr Hari. That's a huge testament to his striking abilities. I was just making the point that just because fought in K-1 doesn't mean he can't be out struck (which he has).
> 
> And I was just stating I think they'd beat him because people were already discussing the subject, it wasn't really part of the previous part of my post.



Yeah, and just because GSP has out wrestled Koscheck doesn't mean he can't be out wrestled. Doesn't mean that someone like Overeem has no right to be the _favorite_ in that department.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 31, 2011)

Good point. I'll rephrase it: I think Overeem is a bit overrated as a fighter. I like him though.


----------



## Skylark (Dec 31, 2011)

Federer said:


> I wanna see that set.
> 
> Abicim.
> 
> Anyway, Ubereem.



I would go for the gay porn thing that Aokjji does not like to have.

Just for lulz.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 31, 2011)

Federer said:


> I wanna see that set.
> 
> Abicim.
> 
> Anyway, Ubereem.



He didn't agree I think so it doesn't count. 



Violent By Design said:


> Do you really know what that means? Leonard Garcia is gifted decision wins. Overeem was not "gifted" a decision, even if you think Werdum won (which he didn't), I don't get how you can say it was a gift. Overeem had top control (and trolls like to use the come back of, well Werdum pulled guard, uh...in MMA that means you're giving up position just in case you're going to reply with that moronic point), stuffed Werdum's takedown attempts and actually hurt Werdum with his strikes. You make it seem like Werdum was battering Overeem around the cage.



OK. By current (stupid) standards, that decision may have been acceptable. However, keep in mind that many judges do not know the difference between mount and guard. If being in someone's guard is such an advantageous position, how come Overeem refused to go into it? The guard is a mostly neutral position. If you're Jon Jones and the guy under you is whoever is your current victim, guard is good. If you are Overeem a solid but not ridiculous grappler and your opponent is Werdum, being stuck in his guard sucks. You could tell from the fact that Overeem barely threw punches and was holding on for dear life mostly. He looked like the prey there, not Werdum. 

And he pretty surely got outstruck. Not murdered on the feet but outstruck for sure. The only shot that might have hurt werdum was that knee to the head (and I think it's happened in the only round that he should've won)



Violent By Design said:


> You spammed Werdum's name over and over again, implying that him "out striking" Overeem was some way to discredit Overeem. It is pretty obvious that you are bringing up Werdum in a negative light.



Werdum is the easiest matchup imaginable yet he looked like shit against him. Not only thatm he would've lost under many people's eyes (including me, other people, fightmetric etc.."

Most importantly, if a meh striker like Werdum can find so much success against him, what could other people do? That's why his "K-1 level god striking" doesn't exist.



Violent By Design said:


> Wow, I applaud you at discrediting Overeem at every attempt and implying in your post that Brock would be too much to handle, but not having hte balls to actually flat out say you think Brock would win. You really went out on a limb there.



Did I really say that? I always thought Overeem is toast once it goes past 1.5 rounds (given that Brock fights like he always did) and has a good chance of finishing in early.

I mostly had it 50-50 but since many people ignored the problems Lesnar could've posed and exaggarating Reems advantages, I was arguing against him.



Violent By Design said:


> Um...you do know how strikers beat wrestlers, right?



Brock didn't fight like a wrestler though. That's the problem.



Violent By Design said:


> Your analogy makes zero sense.



Overeem could beat JDS but not cuz he's god, but because he has the skillset to do it.



Violent By Design said:


> Far less than what *you* thought obviously. The fight went out excactly as I thought it would.



So you expected him to try to out jab and outfinesse Overeem with slow pace and in a controlled manner with only 1 TD attempt? 



Violent By Design said:


> He did? Considering how short the fight is, I don't get how you can draw that conclusion. The fact that you called it a "kickboxing" match makes me think that you actually think Brock wanted to strike. Believe it or not, fighters have to feel out their opponents before going for shots, and Overeem had a great stance and allowed very little openings for Brock to take advantage of. Once Overeem stuffed Brock's single leg, it then depleted Brock's moral, not to mention Brock was lossed after he got hit. I assure you his gameplan was to get it to the ground, if that is where you're getting at.



Here's the problem: Brocks stand up is so weak, that trying to set his TDs up would be a bad strategy. He is not Cain, Rashad or GSP. he doesn't hit perfectly timed transition takedowns. He just drags them down same way Chael did against Stann. Did Chael set them up? Brock should've tried the same or bust. Even if he somehow doesn't get the takedown or Reem gets back up from bottom, he will get tired first. Also, if you strike with him, do it in between wrestling to keep him off balance. Strike on your frontfoot. High pressure. Most fighters who pressured him, win or lose, had more success than those who let him come to them. 

That's how he should've fought. Making TD attempts a priority even as they fail and standup being agressive, not measured.



Violent By Design said:


> It doesn't seem like it. I would hope you would think JJ is "mean" after the way he has dominated people. I'm sorry, but is that really suppose to make you look humble? That you admitted that Jon Jones is good after he steamrolled Rampage? I would hope you would have thought he was mean after he beat Rua, considering Rua is better than Quinton.



I didn't really consider Bader elite or Shogun being better than Rampage. Also, Rampage had the wrestling to not ragdolled. Didn't had the misfortune of taking an absolute OHKO strike at the beginning of the fight. Still lost. 

So yeah.



Violent By Design said:


> *And Overeem would be favorited to knock most of those guys out,* so how is he "overrated" (what the hell does that even mean, overrated by who and in what way? everyone is overrated and underrated). I don't get why you have so much irrational hate for Overeem (and Anderson Silva while we're at it).



No he wouldn't. Finishing Brock in a stand up fight is nothing to brag about.



Violent By Design said:


> I don't know, maybe 35/47? Why would Overeem's technique be any worse from his LHW days? Makes little sense to me. If anything, the "new age" of UFC hws in JDS, Lesnar, Cain and Carwin were more overrated because they were all new when they were projected to be the end all to be all. Overeem at the very least has years upon years of MMA experience, which seems to mean nothing to you.



It doesn't mean much cuz before Werdum, he was fighting the likes of Duffee and Buentello for the belt. 



Violent By Design said:


> He hasn't had many fights, hasn't fought against a lot of names, and he's really only had two huge wins (Nogueria and Lesnar). You make it seem like we actually know so much about Cain, when we really don't. His attributes are even less known than Overeem's.



Puts on a high pace. Great take downs. Relentless GnP. Good stand up. Mixes is up well and is aggressive. Sick cardio.



Violent By Design said:


> This question is so silly that I am going to assume that this is rhetorical despite the quotes.



Fighting a Lesnar who is trying to get cute =/= fighting a Lesnar who is trying to get the TD no matter what. 

Also, Lesnar couldn't do much to Cain really. Didn#t really secure a TD.



Violent By Design said:


> You really need to watch fights more analyitically if you acutlaly think this.



Pretty sure Kongo liked to fight on the backfoot in his most recent fight so yeah.

And it is undeniable that Brock tried to outstrike him in a technical manner, he didn't show much urgency at all.


----------



## Teach (Dec 31, 2011)

Aokiji, damn you're dumb. This is the same guy that said Brock would beat The Reem. Overeem is going to expose the whole UFC HW division.


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 31, 2011)

Seiko said:


> You can't judge Overeem by one bad fight. Werdum didn't want to engage and constantly fell on his back. And Werdum outstruck him? Overeem still landed more power shots...



No he didn't you dingleberry. 

That was one of the anticipated tactics. Pretend that Overeem hit 10 times harded so it doesn't count. In fact Werdum landed more sign. str. too. 

Oh and JDS vs Werdum. Fedor vs Monson etc... Buttscooting is not an excuse for being outstruck bro. 

Also, Fedor hater might be just the most despicable kind of parasite that considers themselves MMA fans. Where winning is not enough because he is fighting cans. Guess whose fault that is.  

Oh and apparently the pretty much undisputed GOAT has been fighting cans his whole career.


----------



## Teach (Dec 31, 2011)

Fedor knocked him out. But the best part was when Fedor threw a Judo Olympic Gold Medalist away when Ishii tried to clinch.


----------



## Teach (Dec 31, 2011)

Shane Carwin tweeted:"AO is not beating JDS"

How the hell did he come to that conclusion? He's jellymad that 300 punches and a loss on top of that got beaten by a simple liver kick.


----------



## Federer (Dec 31, 2011)

Never heard of Ishii until today. 

Watching Reem vs Lesnar right now, ooooh those vicious knees.


----------



## Xerces (Dec 31, 2011)

1 Uberkick > 300 Shane "Can" Carwin punches. 

K1 Level Striking.


----------



## Truth Messenger (Dec 31, 2011)

Overeem is a beast, deal with it.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Dec 31, 2011)

Xerces said:


> 1 Uberkick > 300 Shane "Can" Carwin punches.
> 
> K1 Level Striking.




Shogun's/Liddell's/Kharitonov's punches > Overeem 

And it sucks that Ishii fought Fedor. Retarded, actually. Putting a 4-1 pure grappler against a guy who out struck Cro Cop and out grappled Big Nog. Ishii rules, though.

Megumi Fujii's grappling is crazy. Sucks Imanari didn't go through to the finals of the BW Tourny. The pro wrestling matches ruled, too.

Not a bad night for MMA.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Dec 31, 2011)

Seiko said:


> lawl
> 
> Didn't Frank Mir say "Brock wins easily, Reem is just a blown up LHW"


Well, there are always certain things you cannot account for in a fight. Even if a fighter has the skill set to win the fight he might have the wrong game plan. E.g. Fedor vs Werdum. Fedor probably could have employed the strategy that Alistair did and won.

And of course there are other things too like ring rust or poor mental preparation, etc.


The fight with JDS has fewer variables since both fighters basically look to keep the fight standing at all times. But at the same time I think it is a harder fight to call because neither fighter has an obvious advantage in one area over the other. If either guy makes one mistake you can be sure the other will shut his lights off in a heartbeat.


----------



## Nidaime|Erokage-sama (Dec 31, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Shogun's/Liddell's/Kharitonov's punches > Overeem




Kharitonov hits like a brick shithouse.  Don't hate.


----------



## Ippy (Jan 1, 2012)

Sorry, it's been a while.

Shotgun observations:


I was rooting for the Reem, and the Reem delivered
I still think JDS' disdain for protecting his face is a recipe for disaster against any striker worth his salt (like Overeem), though his chin (proved 100% legit against Carwin) keeps things interesting
Even though Overeem stopped both Duffee and Lesnar's shots, I know for a fact that there will be those that still question his TDD long after he retires
7 Uberknees >>>>>>>> an entire round of Carwin's hardest punches
I don't know what K1 Lesnar was thinking, he should have been working his bullrush double leg nonstop
Diaz stepped his game up, and I can't wait to see him vs. either Bendo or Edgar
I think I'm officially a fan of the Diaz brothers due to their love of bringing it, consistently and with such ferocity
Carwin jelly
I'm sad about Lesnar retiring, just as I was sad about BJ Penn retiring (say what you will about either, but they both put it all on the line every time they fought)
I'm strangely satisfied to see Fitch lose so completely


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm kind of surprised Massenzio agreed to take on Palhares for UFC 142. That seems like it's got one sided ass beating written all over it.

The Belfort, Aldo, and Barboza fights should all be really interesting.


----------



## Masai (Jan 2, 2012)

Teach said:


> Shane Carwin tweeted:"AO is not beating JDS"
> 
> How the hell did he come to that conclusion? He's jellymad that 300 punches and a loss on top of that got beaten by a *simple liver kick.*



I can assure you there is no such thing. I'd rather take 300 punches over a well placed liver kick any day of the week.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 3, 2012)

For those of you who missed Aoki/Kitaoka.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 3, 2012)

Well that was good.

Hendricks was the most exciting after Nate Diaz's fight with Cerrone if you ask me. It was just so unexpected. He's the only guy to finish Fitch in forever.

As for Overeem, I think JDS has the tools to defeat him if he is aggressive enough. He doesn't want to eat too many kicks or knees though, so he will need to put the Reem away quickly in order to take it. I'd say that fight is 60/40 JDS.


----------



## Gaja (Jan 3, 2012)

^Yeah man, congratulations to Hendricks, I though he was gonna spend three rounds on bottom like most of Fitch' opponents do, but he proved a lot of people wrong in that one, including me. You think he's next in line to fight for the interim belt if GSP takes too long to recover? Or fight one more fight before it to kinda prove this wasn't a fluke or anything like that?

Also has Nate been given the next shot at the LW strap? 

As far as Overeem vs JDS goes looking forward to it already/ 

Octagon girls like the Reem 




Gallic Rush said:


> I'm kind of surprised Massenzio agreed to take on Palhares for UFC 142. That seems like it's got one sided ass beating written all over it.



Agreed


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd like to see Hendricks fight one more top name, though it doesn't get any bigger than Fitch when it comes to WW names. 

Next title shot goes to the Juggernaut, assuming he beats Diego.


----------



## Gaja (Jan 3, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I'd like to see Hendricks fight one more top name, though it doesn't get any bigger than Fitch when it comes to WW names.
> 
> Next title shot goes to the Juggernaut, assuming he beats Diego.



Maybe give Shields to Hendricks? After that, if he wins, give him a title shot.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 3, 2012)

Maybe. Of course we're assuming Shields isn't going to get cut once he loses to Sexyama next month.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jan 3, 2012)

Shields is too awesome to get cut.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't know... GSP cut him up pretty bad.


----------



## Ippy (Jan 3, 2012)

The closer we get to Condit/Diaz, the more excited I get.


both have great chins
both have great cardio
both have great heart
Diaz's volume punches means constant action
Condit's diverse arsenal means Diaz has his work cut out for him
Condit's tendency for greater violence the longer a fight goes on means $$$

I've honestly never been this excited to see a fight ever.  Overeem vs. Pre-Decline Fedor could have been booked, and I still wouldn't have been as excited as I am now.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 3, 2012)

It should be good. 

I'm not that psyched though. I'll be more psyched when Diaz beats GSP.


----------



## Teach (Jan 3, 2012)

Diaz will demolish Condit. Either Condit is going to get KO'd or subbed, this isn't going to a decision.


----------



## Ippy (Jan 3, 2012)

I couldn't care less about who actually wins the fight...  which makes it that much more exciting!


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 4, 2012)

GSP is the most under appreciated fighter in MMA. Diaz/Condit is up in the air, I think either could take it, but Diaz will NEVER, and I mean NEVER, beat GSP.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 4, 2012)

I do think Diaz will defeat Conduit, probably by triangle choke after Conduit decides standing isn't a good idea, and then he'll go on to face the Juggernaut and possibly beat him, too.

GSP might come back and try to beat Diaz but it ain't happenin'.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 4, 2012)

Everyone thinks Diaz is a good fighter because he beat a washed up BJ Penn. Look at the most recent fights he's won. One dimensional strikers like Paul Daley and Cyborg Santos. What's the better indicator of a good fighter? The guy who takes Jon Fitch to a decision, or the guy who submits a 18-15 Cyborg Santos? 

Not trying to be an asshole, but I just have yet to see one solid case as to how Diaz is gonna plow through GSP, when better fighters weren't able to. Unless, of course, you're saying Nick Diaz > a prime BJ Penn/Matt Hughes?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 4, 2012)

I don't think he's a good fighter because he beat BJ Penn.


I think he's a good fighter because he has beaten some of the best strikers in the division at their own game, has infinite cardio, iron chin, and the incredible submission skills to submit black belts. 

I also don't see BJ Penn as washed up. He has only improved over the years, particularly in his striking game. "Prime" BJ Penn wouldn't have landed much of anything had he fought that night. As for Matt Hughes, well, he's begging to be submitted.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jan 4, 2012)

The people who aren't already, will be Nick Diaz believers soon enough.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 4, 2012)

I think the biggest unanswered question is if Diaz can hang with GSP--or any of the top wrestlers--on the ground. 

It's a valid question given his history, but when he was in the UFC getting decision'd by Diego and Sherk and Riggs he wasn't a black belt in BJJ. He also wasn't even half the boxer. He wasn't even as good as Nate Diaz back then and he was still beating some decent names.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 4, 2012)

GSP will out strike Diaz, I think.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 4, 2012)

Well, anything's possible.


Except that.


----------



## Shock Therapy (Jan 6, 2012)

Diaz won't beat GSP, I'm almost sure of that. GSP is an absolute machine


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

Conventional wisdom says that Diaz can't beat GSP because GSP will take him down with ease and control him on the mat.

But there's always a chance Diaz boxes him up or gets a submission. I don't see GSP out striking Diaz on the feet at all. He'll only use his jab and superman jab to setup a takedown.


----------



## Naruto Uzumaki (Jan 6, 2012)

diaz will smash gsp

and cyborg test positive for steroids she's 1 of my fav fighters


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

Cyborg?

Steroids?!?!? 



Big surprise there, right?


----------



## Naruto Uzumaki (Jan 6, 2012)

not really but got damn it sucks


----------



## Kuya (Jan 6, 2012)

Munoz gonna make Sonnen tap ^^


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Jan 6, 2012)

GSP will grease himself up enough to make himself impervious to Diaz's strikes.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 6, 2012)

Naruto Uzumaki said:


> diaz will smash gsp
> 
> and cyborg test positive for steroids she's 1 of my fav fighters


If you think the highest level athletes are not all using banned substances you are kidding yourself. Cyborg was just sloppy enough to get caught.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jan 6, 2012)

No surprise on Cyborg's end.


----------



## Xerces (Jan 7, 2012)

Jones may fight Henderson or Rashad. Predictions anyone?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 7, 2012)

Timing wise the fight against Henderson makes more sense and is probably going to happen.

Looks to me though that Henderson's age is slowly but surely catching up with him. Jones is still maturing. 

Not a great lookout for Henderson, frankly.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 9, 2012)

Jones should fight Rashad next.


Should.


Won't.

Henderson it is.


----------



## Ippy (Jan 9, 2012)

Xerces said:


> Jones may fight Henderson or Rashad. Predictions anyone?



Anyone predicting anything other than destruction at the hands of Jones is using wishful thinking or is a fan of one of the other guys.

There is simply no logical reason to assume otherwise.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 9, 2012)

Rashad seems very confident, but that's like saying Rashad is black. All fighters are confident.

Obviously Jones will sub Hendo and TKO Rashad, but both fights will be exciting. The only man with a chance to stop Jones in the LHW is Machida.

And he already lost.


----------



## Squall Leonhart (Jan 10, 2012)

JDS will kick Overeem's ass.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm picking JDS myself, but it's not guaranteed or anything.

JDS hasn't fought a striker in his prime on the level of Overeem. He fought Cro Cop, but that Cro Cop was like the Prime Cro Cop's older brother who can't LHK and has two broken arms.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 10, 2012)

I honestly think Hendo has the best chance at stopping Jones. He isn't gonna be afraid to stand with JBJ, he wades through power punches. Jones got tagged by Machida, but that's not saying much. If Jones tanks an H-bomb, I think the entire LHW division is cleaned out.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 10, 2012)

He might tank an H-Bomb, but can he tank a S-Bomb?


That's the Suga Bomb, performed after he does some dance moves and bobs his head for no reason whatsoever.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 13, 2012)

Johnson weighed in at 197.  So, he's 12 lbs over the limit and has to stay under 205 tomorrow in order to fight.


----------



## Violent by Design (Jan 13, 2012)

lol...................


----------



## Ippy (Jan 13, 2012)

lol Rumble

Dude, just go to 205.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 13, 2012)

So, apparently what happened was Rumble made it as low as 187.5 but could not cut any more weight. He started getting dehydration sickness and the UFC doctors had him pumped with fluid.


----------



## Ippy (Jan 13, 2012)

Seriously, he could barely make WW, can't even make MW.... it's time to just stick at LHW.

TBH, weight cutting is a needlessly dangerous and stupid practice.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 13, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> Johnson weighed in at 197.  So, he's 12 lbs over the limit and has to stay under 205 tomorrow in order to fight.


Yeah, when I first heard about that I thought it was fake.

I mean, what the fuck? He can make 170 but can't make 185? Almost as bad as pulling a Lutter.

I think he needs to be at 185, but he also needs to actually make weight properly and not try cutting 800 pounds of water weight. Lose some of them muscles.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 13, 2012)

Rumble is screwing his kidneys for sure. I think he can stay at middleweight despite being bigger than Rashad. He just needs to stop trying to ridiculously outsize his opponents.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 14, 2012)

How could this guy make 170 in the first place is beyond me.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 14, 2012)

While we wait for the fights to start:

[YOUTUBE]2mcjR3TsK4s[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 14, 2012)

I think we can safely say that judo players = toughest guys in MMA.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 14, 2012)

Yeah because not ebing allowed to get punched = tough.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 14, 2012)

Better luck next time, Omigawa. You have the heart of a true warrior.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 14, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> Yeah because not ebing allowed to get punched = tough.



Maybe I was a bit over the top, but Omigawa, Akiyama, Parisyan, Yoshida, all durable/tough dudes. A lot of other names I can't think of.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 14, 2012)

Fuck, what a knockout! Feel bad for Etim, though.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 14, 2012)

Etim took a brutal shot. I don't think anyone has taken a shot like that since fellow Brit Bisping.

Also: Joe Rogan must be crazy, I see at least 2 shots to the back of the head.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 14, 2012)

On one hand I do think there were some questionable strikes, but also idk. Still sucks for both guys.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 14, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> On one hand I do think there were some questionable strikes, but also idk. Still sucks for both guys.



Oh well, what are you going to do?


Palhares shred through Massenzio as expected.


----------



## eHav (Jan 14, 2012)

palhares keeps ripping legs off


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 14, 2012)

Honestly, heel hooks should be banned from the sport.

Also, guess who's gonna get cut.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 14, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> Honestly, heel hooks should be banned from the sport.
> 
> Also, guess who's gonna get cut.



Meh, Massenzio's leg is fine.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 14, 2012)

In before "Aldo destroyed Mendes" 

Seriously though, nice finish.

Gives you an idea how retarded the "NFL players are better athletes than soccer players" drivel is.  (Aldo was a good soccer player but didn't make it)


----------



## eHav (Jan 14, 2012)

yeah aldo had a nice ko.. after the most blatant fence grab ever


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 14, 2012)

God damn, what a main card.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 14, 2012)

eHav said:


> yeah aldo had a nice ko.. after the most blatant fence grab ever



You really think that made a difference? I mean, Mendes held on and got the take down briefly on the next try and Aldo popped right back up. That guy is just a different kind of athlete and his skill set is astounding. Seeing him screw up his weight cut twice made people start writing him off saying Edgar would take his belt easily, but I think no one in the world at 145 can beat Aldo. Frankly, I am not sure anyone at 155 can either.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 14, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> You really think that made a difference? I mean, Mendes held on and got the take down briefly on the next try and Aldo popped right back up. That guy is just a different kind of athlete and his skill set is astounding. Seeing him screw up his weight cut twice made people start writing him off saying Edgar would take his belt easily, but I think no one in the world at 145 can beat Aldo. Frankly, I am not sure anyone at 155 can either.



It did make one hell of a difference. He was on his way down. If he coiuld've popped back up as easily, he wouldn't have resorted to grabbing the fence in the first place. 

I wouldn't mind seeing Aldo kick the shit out of Edgar myself though.


----------



## eHav (Jan 14, 2012)

aldo was mid air when he grabed the fence, its was pretty unfair. not saying he woundt get back up but still, could have made a dif


----------



## Naruto Uzumaki (Jan 15, 2012)

greatest card ever


----------



## DeathScream (Jan 15, 2012)

Barboza Norris!


----------



## Nidaime|Erokage-sama (Jan 15, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> You really think that made a difference? I mean, Mendes held on and got the take down briefly on the next try and Aldo popped right back up. That guy is just a different kind of athlete and his skill set is astounding. Seeing him screw up his weight cut twice made people start writing him off saying Edgar would take his belt easily, but I think no one in the world at 145 can beat Aldo. Frankly, I am not sure anyone at 155 can either.



Bro, sleeping on Frankie Edger.  Dude has skill and size.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 15, 2012)

Nidaime|Erokage-sama said:


> Bro, sleeping on Frankie Edger.  Dude has skill and size.



Don't see how Edgar will be handle Aldo's stand up or TDD.


----------



## Masai (Jan 16, 2012)

Buakaw telling a tree to go fuck itself because it was just standing there being all green and making bananas and shit.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gloGY3UDZDo[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Gaja (Jan 16, 2012)

Masai said:


> Buakaw telling a tree to go fuck itself because it was just standing there being all green and making bananas and shit.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gloGY3UDZDo[/YOUTUBE]



Oh my god, that's incredible. O_O

I knew Buakaw was a BAMF for a while now, but god damn.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 16, 2012)

Some people think that ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) Petrosyan is actually better than him. 

Imagine being hit by those in your liver. 


Oh and considering how often he got tagged by MAYNARD, I wouldn't put too much money on Edgar being Aldo.

Seriously, poor Cruz though.  Does anyone even care about him? 

Btw I guess Aldo is explosive while Edgar and Cruz are merely fast.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 17, 2012)

Good card.

That kick from Barboza is going to be on highlight reels forever. 

I'm really interested in Frankie vs Aldo now. I would pick Frankie, just because I like him more.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 17, 2012)

Munoz is injured. Bisping will replace him to fight Chael Sonnen.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 17, 2012)

Sonnen will most likely destroy Bisping, but I can still see Bisping surprising us with TDD and stand up.

I'd say Sonnen 8/10 times.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 17, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Sonnen will most likely destroy Bisping, but I can still see Bisping surprising us with TDD and stand up.
> 
> I'd say Sonnen 8/10 times.



I kind of think stand up wise it's a toss up, but Sonnen is going to blast through Bisping's take down defense like it's not even there.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jan 17, 2012)

Really bad match-up for Bisping. Don't see him having much of a chance.

What happens with Maia now?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 17, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> I kind of think stand up wise it's a toss up, but Sonnen is going to blast through Bisping's take down defense like it's not even there.


Probably what happens, yeah. But Bisping might come in with some improved TDD or something. He was going up against Maia (granted his takedowns are non-existent in comparison, he still would want to avoid the ground like the plague in that fight).


Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Really bad match-up for Bisping. Don't see him having much of a chance.
> 
> What happens with Maia now?


Hopefully he fights Palhares.

I know it won't happen, but hopefully.


----------



## Yakuza (Jan 17, 2012)

Great, I dislike both Sonnen and Bisping, whoever loses is a good result. Whoever wins will lose the next fight so it doesn't really matter.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 17, 2012)

This fight is nearly a virtual lock for Sonnen.

He isn't likely to sub him and he isn't gonna knock him out.

The only problem he might give him is that his gastank is good, so Simbly tiring him out will not be that simple.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jan 18, 2012)

Maia is facing Weidman.

Definitely looking forward to this fight more than the others.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 18, 2012)

Just watched Edwards/Hansen. Pride had some of the worst judging, god damn.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 18, 2012)

I would like to hear the trash talk between Sonnen and Bisping.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 18, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I would like to hear the trash talk between Sonnen and Bisping.



Honestly, Bisping claimed that Sonnen is a nice guy in person, if he and Sonnen were to go at each other, it would be so phoney.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 18, 2012)

It would still be pretty good.

Sonnen is good at that kind of thing.


----------



## Violent by Design (Jan 19, 2012)

chris weidman was my wrestling coach, glad to see he's doing big things.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 19, 2012)

Maia needs to go back to being a one dimensional grapple-fucker. Every since he learned how to strike he's gone to decision a shit load.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 19, 2012)

I think the problem is that Maia is that he has now been facing guys with decent sub defense and TDD.

Though he does seem to favor striking a bit too much when he isn't a striker.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jan 19, 2012)

A friend of mine started going to Cesar Gracie Academy. First day though, apparently everyone there is cool.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 19, 2012)

Wish I could train BJJ. 

Too much money.


----------



## zapman (Jan 19, 2012)

Nick DIAZ UFC 143 YEA


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 20, 2012)

Stockton, friend!

209!

of course - warmer, cuddlier Nick Diaz.


----------



## Arishem (Jan 20, 2012)

Herb likes to watch unconscious fighters get pounded on.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Jan 20, 2012)

Nice night of fights. 

Some of those guys sure could take a beating.


Also, Pat Barry is the shit.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jan 21, 2012)




----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 23, 2012)

I need to catch up and watch Friday's fights. I couldn't watch them live or anything given I have no Internet or TV at home.

Guillard.


----------



## ShaolinExile (Jan 24, 2012)

Yakuza said:


> Great, I dislike both Sonnen and Bisping, whoever loses is a good result. Whoever wins will lose the next fight so it doesn't really matter.



You really think Sonnen is a lock in for Silva? I mean, I like Silva's chances and Chael tends to fall into triangles, but he manhandled Silva that first fight and lost at the last moment. Heavy enough on the hips with good GnP we could see them stop it due to just volume of unanswered punches.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 24, 2012)

Silva struggles against guys with good top games, Sonnen was just the first to truly expose his lack of ground skills. In b4 "OMG HE TAPPED HIM OUT". Yeah, well so did Trevor Prangley. Subbing a guy with shit sub defense is about as impressive as knocking out James Thompson. I think Sonnen would win the rematch.


----------



## Violent by Design (Jan 24, 2012)

He exposed his ground game? Silva tapped out Hendo and Lutter too. In what way is it exposed?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 24, 2012)

What I mean is that Silva's weakness is ground fighters with good top games. All of his legit losses came by him being grapple fucked. Luiz Azaredo, Daiju Takase and Ryo Chonan. This was a way younger Silva, so obviously they don't count towards him now that much. With that said, history repeats itself. Now, personally, I don't think any of the guys he lost to are bad. Takase, even with his record, is an extremely under rated grappler. Go watch his fights with Chris Brennan or Carlos Newton and you'll see what I mean. Even so, Silva, other than throwing strikes from the bottom, did not mount much of an offense.

Sonnen exposed him to the public in the big leagues. Sonnen took advantage of the one thing that had always been Silva's weakness.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 24, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Silva struggles against guys with good top games, Sonnen was just the first to truly expose his lack of ground skills. In b4 "OMG HE TAPPED HIM OUT". Yeah, well so did Trevor Prangley. Subbing a guy with shit sub defense is about as impressive as knocking out James Thompson. I think Sonnen would win the rematch.


 


The Fireball Kid said:


> What I mean is that Silva's weakness is ground fighters with good top games. All of his legit losses came by him being grapple fucked. Luiz Azaredo, Daiju Takase and Ryo Chonan. This was a way younger Silva, so obviously they don't count towards him now that much. With that said, history repeats itself. Now, personally, I don't think any of the guys he lost to are bad. Takase, even with his record, is an extremely under rated grappler. Go watch his fights with Chris Brennan or Carlos Newton and you'll see what I mean. Even so, Silva, other than throwing strikes from the bottom, did not mount much of an offense.
> 
> Sonnen exposed him to the public in the big leagues. Sonnen took advantage of the one thing that had always been Silva's weakness.


 You present reasonable points, and you concede that this was a younger Anderson Silva (not sure where he was at in BJJ at the time, but he has since become a Black Belt--inb4 Chael joke), but you don't point out the fact that Sonnen is basically the best at what he does.

There isn't anyone else on Chael's level at that weight class. Henderson had a great first round himself, but he also got submitted. Eventually they all will.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 24, 2012)

I wonder how the landscape will look if Sonnen beats him.

Won't happen as the fight is in brazil and referees will stand the fight up after 7 seconds. Sonnen better train his flying armbar.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 24, 2012)

#1 Chael
#2 Anderson
#3 Everyone else

Anderson gets an immediate rematch. Then, if he loses that somehow, then the next contender will be Demian Maia.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 24, 2012)

I wonder which GOAT candidate gets shafted more, GSp cuz "he's boring" or Fedor, cuz he never fought under Lord Dana.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jan 24, 2012)

I never understood the GSP being boring thing. He's not the most exciting fighter but he's consistently one of the funnest fighters to watch; especially if you train in MMA. He is awesome to watch.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 24, 2012)

I get pumped to see GSP fight, mainly because I wonder if he's going to lose or not. Kind of the way I used to be with Fedor, but then he kept losing and I lost interest.

Anderson Silva is the same way except that what he does in there is incredible.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 25, 2012)

I think Sonnen will beat Silva, but I think he'll lose it to someone else soon after.

And GSP just isn't boring. Go watch him vs Fitch and then say he's boring. Any time a ground fighter who doesn't specialize in submissions fights he's "boring". Retarded. A true MMA fan respects all aspects of the game, the knockout brawlers, the technical strikers, the submission machines AND the methodical wrestlers.

Also, Dana is a fucking idiot. "Fedor sucks lol, Brock is better". Brock beat guys he was tailor made to beat, other than Frank Mir. When Frank Mir and an aging Randy Couture are your biggest wins, you're not better than Fedor. Fedor beat tons of former UFC champions WHILE they were still ranked. Sure, Arlovski and Sylvia are crap now (more so Sylvia), but at the time they were still top 10 guys when Fedor beat them. Brock Lesnar beat Heath Herring, Min Soo Kim and Shane Carwin (barely). Fedor beat way more quality opposition than he did.

I guess I'll never stop being a PRIDE NEVER DIE ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 25, 2012)

So you must be a huge Jon Fitch fan.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 25, 2012)

Not a huge fan, but the guy is a great fighter. I never said you have to love it, just respect it.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 25, 2012)

I can respect it and still find it boring.

Though the more I learn about grappling the more interesting it becomes to me.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jan 25, 2012)

Grappling is awesome. It's probably the only MMA-related discipline I'll still be practising when I'm 40.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 25, 2012)

I'll be boxing your ears when I'm 50, you whippersnapper.


----------



## Heavenly King (Jan 25, 2012)

the wear and tear on your car

saying good bye to Mr K-1


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 25, 2012)

Second most epic head kicks of all time.


----------



## Gaja (Jan 26, 2012)

Heavenly King said:


> the wear and tear on your car
> 
> saying good bye to Mr K-1



That's one bad ass mother fucker, 40+ years old and still banging. Respect.



CrazyMoronX said:


> Second most epic head kicks of all time.



Would I be wrong in assuming you have Crocop in first place?


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 26, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Anderson Silva is the same way except that what he does in there is incredible.



Yeah and what GSP and Fedor do isn't.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 26, 2012)

Gaja said:


> That's one bad ass mother fucker, 40+ years old and still banging. Respect.
> 
> 
> 
> Would I be wrong in assuming you have Crocop in first place?


 You would not be wrong. 


Aokiji said:


> Yeah and what GSP and Fedor do isn't.


 GSP is amazing in other ways. He is very dominate without finishing fights. Anderson is very dominate and finishes the majority of his fights. Fedor is a mixed bag, about halfway on the slider scale between the two.

The difference between GSP and Silva is that GSP works incredibly hard, uses his incredible ground game, conditioning, and versaile skillset to stifle his opponents and have the fight take place wherever he wants. Anderson Silva dances, puts his hands down, plays with his opponents like a cat with a mouse, and still murders them with fucking Matrix moves.

I think Anderson is more impressive just for that fact. He doesn't just win, he doesn't just dominate, he makes it look so incredibly easy.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 26, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> You would not be wrong.
> 
> GSP is amazing in other ways. He is very dominate without finishing fights. Anderson is very dominate and finishes the majority of his fights. Fedor is a mixed bag, about halfway on the slider scale between the two.
> 
> ...



cept when he fights a guy who can wrestle 

When has GSP ever looked like the second best guy in the cage? both of his losses were flash losses as in caught in a submission caught with a punch. IMO the fact that Sonnen was able to dominate him in a loss was more damaging to Anderson's mystique than his actual losses by finish.


----------



## pussyking (Jan 26, 2012)

the guy who could wrestle seemed like he had the advatange, took silva to the limit and still lost pretty bad. silva beat him with little offense. makes all those rounds the wrestler dude put silva through look like a joke in comparison.


----------



## Heavenly King (Jan 26, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Second most epic head kicks of all time.



I put him first I been watching him for years and he's the god of head kicks people can't get away from it




Gaja said:


> That's one bad ass mother fucker, 40+ years old and still banging. Respect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He should Semmy what time it is. I don't know why he would be first Aerst has more head kick victories by head kick then cro cop


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 26, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> cept when he fights a guy who can wrestle
> 
> When has GSP ever looked like the second best guy in the cage? both of his losses were flash losses as in caught in a submission caught with a punch. IMO the fact that Sonnen was able to dominate him in a loss was more damaging to Anderson's mystique than his actual losses by finish.


You mean like Okami, Marquardt, and Henderson?

Sonnen has two things going for him:

1) He's is one of the best at what he does in all of MMA
2) What he does happens to be the only hole in Anderson's game

If GSP faced someone like that he wouldn't look as dominate. It would take someone with incredible standup and TDD to do to GSP what Sonnen did to Anderson. There just isn't anyone like that at WW. Diaz might be able to accomodate with BJJ, but I find it unlikely.


pussyking said:


> the guy who could wrestle seemed like he had the advatange, took silva to the limit and still lost pretty bad. silva beat him with little offense. makes all those rounds the wrestler dude put silva through look like a joke in comparison.


You beat a guy up for 24 minutes and then he puts you in a triangle for three seconds and he "wins" the fight...

-Sonnen (paraphrase)


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 26, 2012)

pussyking said:


> the guy who could wrestle seemed like he had the advatange, took silva to the limit and still lost pretty bad. silva beat him with little offense. makes all those rounds the wrestler dude put silva through look like a joke in comparison.





Lesnar beat Carwin with very little offense. Makes Carwin pounding his head in look like a joke in comparison.

This is what I mean that Anderson has the worst fans.



CrazyMoronX said:


> You mean like Okami, Marquardt, and Henderson?
> 
> Sonnen has two things going for him:
> 
> ...



Those 3 really arent on Chael's level though. 

Also, that is the thing with GSP because that guy doesn't really exist. 
Chael proved that you can beat Anderson if you have certain skills. You don't have to pray for God that you find his underestimating you and you have a punchers chance. With GSP you kinda do.




And the Overeem hype is even worse than I expected. When people call BAS RUTTEN butthurt of all people.  I mean never mind the fact that his arguments are actually pretty cogent.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jan 26, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I'll be boxing your ears when I'm 50, you whippersnapper.



Hey, I ain't got no problem fighting an old man :ho.

It's a good time for Aerts to retire. He was great, and looking forward to his last fight.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 26, 2012)

Serra proved you can beat GSP if you clip him behind the ear with your bicep. 


Speaking of Aerts and Cro Cop, I sure hope Mirko wins that kickboxing fight against Sefo.


----------



## Arishem (Jan 27, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv5AwIqF9qE[/YOUTUBE]Griffin and Mir stand up to get a better look at the Reem.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 27, 2012)

pussyking said:


> the guy who could wrestle seemed like he had the advatange, took silva to the limit and still lost pretty bad. silva beat him with little offense. makes all those rounds the wrestler dude put silva through look like a joke in comparison.



So a lucky submission over a guy with no sub defense > making the best fighter in the world look like an amateur for 4 1/2 rounds?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 27, 2012)

Also, I really hope Uyenoyama beats Dodson. I hate that guy.


----------



## Pirao (Jan 27, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> So a lucky submission over a guy with no sub defense > making the best fighter in the world look like an amateur for 4 1/2 rounds?



Well, obviously. Winning is kinda>>>losing, you know (you're talking about Silva-Sonnen right?).


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 27, 2012)

Pirao said:


> Well, obviously. Winning is kinda>>>losing, you know (you're talking about Silva-Sonnen right?).



Chonan >>>>> Anderson.  

The funny thing is, Anderson nuthuggers would've made this very argument themselves before the Sonnen fight. Now that he has become the beneficiary of a hail mary sub, suddenly, it's about who wins, regardless how.  The current excuse for that loss is "Anderson improved since then!" 

Chonan got punked the entire fight and still won. Anderson got punked the entire fight and still won.


----------



## Ippy (Jan 27, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> The funny thing is, Anderson nuthuggers would've made this very argument themselves before the Sonnen fight.


_Argument by belief_ is what I believe this is called....


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 27, 2012)

I've heard lots of excuses for why Anderson lost that fight with Chonan. Everything from he wasn't as good to his foot/ankle was injured.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 27, 2012)

Wibbly Wobbly said:


> _Argument by belief_ is what I believe this is called....



Do you believe Chonan was better than Anderson at that point since he, you know, beat him?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 27, 2012)

Speaking of Chael, I wonder how badly he'll beat up Bisping tomorrow night.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 27, 2012)

Everyone who brings up Chonan/Silva always acts like it was some act of God that he won. Chonan spent most of the fight on top of Silva, and Silva won the stand up, but it was actually pretty back and forth.

Anderson never once "punked" Chonan in that fight.

If you want to talk about punked...


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 27, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Speaking of Chael, I wonder how badly he'll beat up Bisping tomorrow night.



Is a finish probable?

Bisping is not durable but Chael has weak punches.

OTOH, Bisping has decent cardio. This should go the distance.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 28, 2012)

Wow. Lavar Johnson looked really good.


----------



## Teach (Jan 28, 2012)

Kenny Florian is so annoying.


----------



## Sanity Check (Jan 28, 2012)

Up next...

Sonnen vs Bisping.    !!!


----------



## Ippy (Jan 28, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> Do you believe Chonan was better than Anderson at that point since he, you know, beat him?



Of course.

He was the better fighter that night.  Plain and simple.

Where exactly are you trying to go with this?


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 28, 2012)

Wibbly Wobbly said:


> Of course.
> 
> He was the better fighter that night.  Plain and simple.
> 
> Where exactly are you trying to go with this?



I was going to go to the point where winning does not indicate the superior fighter and you can still win a fight while being outmatched. 

But since you admit that Chonan was better than Anderson at that point, I have to respect that.


----------



## Han Solo (Jan 28, 2012)

30-27? Who the hell scored that fight?


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 28, 2012)

Seems like Sonnen will get mauled.


----------



## martryn (Jan 28, 2012)

> 30-27? Who the hell scored that fight?



That's what I was thinking.  Something is really fishy.  I can't even delude myself enough to explain how Sonnen won the 2nd round.  I'm not upset that Sonnen won, but it should have been 29-28 if not a split decision.


----------



## Han Solo (Jan 28, 2012)

martryn said:


> That's what I was thinking.  Something is really fishy.  I can't even delude myself enough to explain how Sonnen won the 2nd round.  I'm not upset that Sonnen won, but it should have been 29-28 if not a split decision.



Yeah I had 29-28 for Sonnen tbh but I don't get how anyone gives Sonnen the second round.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 28, 2012)

Rounds 1 and 3 went to Sonnen, for me.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 28, 2012)

Lol at Sherdoggers wanting Hendo to get the title shot. 

Hendo got battered by Shogun the latter part of the fight. Rashad won every round of his.


----------



## Heavenly King (Jan 29, 2012)

Badr vs Gokhan


----------



## Judas (Jan 29, 2012)

Damn, Rashad made Phil look like he didn't belong in that fight. The closest he ever got was in round 3, and even that fell into Evans favor.


----------



## Violent by Design (Jan 29, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> I was going to go to the point where winning does not indicate the superior fighter and you can still win a fight while being outmatched.
> 
> But since you admit that Chonan was better than Anderson at that point, I have to respect that.



Chael Sonnen clearly isn't a better fighter than Anderson Silva lol.


----------



## Federer (Jan 29, 2012)

Badr beat Saki? What a shocker, anyone and their mom could have predicted that. 

Glad that Rashad won, now he has to face Jones. Can't wait for that. :ho


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 29, 2012)

Violent By Design said:


> Chael Sonnen clearly isn't a better fighter than Anderson Silva lol.



I know I know but he would be a guy that could beat him more often than not and still lose to him by fluke.

Essentially people make too much out of the result, often disregarding how it came to be in the first place. His loss to Anderson is as meaningful as Carwin's loss to Lesnar.


----------



## Heavenly King (Jan 29, 2012)

Hesdy Gerges vs. Daniel Ghita
Heavyweight Championship Bout


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Jan 29, 2012)

I think styles make fights. Sonnen would beat Silva, but not others.


----------



## Gaja (Jan 29, 2012)

Heavenly King said:


> Badr vs Gokhan



Thanks for that.


----------



## Heavenly King (Jan 29, 2012)

Gaja said:


> Thanks for that.



anytime man


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 30, 2012)

Rashad dominated Phil, but he was barely able to hit him. Unless he manages to get inside and get a takedown quickly, I got Jones by easy TKO/KO. He's going to brutalize Rashad.

Sonnen/Silva should prove interesting, but Sonnen wasn't that impressive on Saturday. I hope Anderson was taking notes.


----------



## Arishem (Jan 30, 2012)

The  has finally ended.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 30, 2012)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Jan 30, 2012)

Yo, Diaz-Condit this Saturday. I don't think I'm ready!


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 30, 2012)

My body has been ready for this fisticuff penetration for months now. 

I'm ready to get fisted.


----------



## Sanity Check (Jan 31, 2012)

They make a mistake with the scoring in the last UFC.

The judge who scored Sonnen vs Bisping 30-27....

They scored it in favor of Bisping & thought he won all 3 rounds.  

Chael got his wish - it was a split decision after all..


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Jan 31, 2012)

I really don't get you guys. 

1 guy takes performance enhancing drugs and fights a guy with cracked ribs. Fair fight ?

I couldn't turn around without wanting to fucking roar in manly manner when i had broken ribs, never mind fight. I'm expecting Silva to make an example of Sonnen in the rematch.


----------



## Tiger (Jan 31, 2012)

Arishem said:


> The  has finally ended.



That's probably terrible news, as the intro will now be overly flashy and full of cheese.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 31, 2012)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> They make a mistake with the scoring in the last UFC.
> 
> The judge who scored Sonnen vs Bisping 30-27....
> 
> ...


 I had Bisping winning the first two, but I think Sonnen got the last, possibly a 10-8, making the fight a draw.

But I'm not mad.


Law said:


> That's probably terrible news, as the intro will now be overly flashy and full of cheese.


 Gonna miss the gladiator.  Hopefully they don't replace him with fighting robots.


----------



## Violent by Design (Jan 31, 2012)

FACE THE PAIN

RIPPIN U INTO PIECES


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 31, 2012)

Replace that song with some pop-punk.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 31, 2012)

The Bloody Nine said:


> I really don't get you guys.
> 
> 1 guy takes performance enhancing drugs and fights a guy with cracked ribs. Fair fight ?
> 
> I couldn't turn around without wanting to fucking roar in manly manner when i had broken ribs, never mind fight. I'm expecting Silva to make an example of Sonnen in the rematch.





Silva didn't have broken ribs you stupid piece of shit.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jan 31, 2012)

Silva had three broken ribs, a sprained ankle, two torn ACLs, a broken orbital, and dengue fever when he stepped into the Octagon that night.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 31, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Silva had three broken ribs, a sprained ankle, two torn ACLs, a broken orbital, and dengue fever when he stepped into the Octagon that night.



Don't forget his cholera.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Jan 31, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> Silva didn't have broken ribs you stupid piece of shit.



I see you still haven't learned to read. 

But looking it over again it seems his ribs were only injured before the fight and cracked in the first round. I first heard on a forum from very knowledgable mma guy (not sure if hes an actual mma reporter) and wikipedia seems to back that up.


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 1, 2012)

The Bloody Nine said:


> I see you still haven't learned to read.
> 
> But looking it over again it seems his ribs were only injured before the fight and cracked in the first round. I first heard on a forum from very knowledgable mma guy (not sure if hes an actual mma reporter) and wikipedia seems to back that up.



Bruised ribs=cracked ribs.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 1, 2012)

It doesn't matter what happened in the first fight.

What matters is what will happen in the second fight. If Anderson babyshakes Chael then it's 1-1 and they get a rubbermatch.


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 1, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> It doesn't matter what happened in the first fight.
> 
> What matters is what will happen in the second fight. If Anderson babyshakes Chael then it's 1-1 and they get a rubbermatch.





Typically it matters cuz the guy you will be fighting is the guy whom you fought in the first one.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 2, 2012)

The Bloody Nine said:


> I really don't get you guys.
> 
> 1 guy takes performance enhancing drugs and fights a guy with cracked ribs. Fair fight ?
> 
> I couldn't turn around without wanting to fucking roar in manly manner when i had broken ribs, never mind fight. I'm expecting Silva to make an example of Sonnen in the rematch.



PED's are a joke.  

Athletic commissions categorize marijuana as a "performance enhancing drug".  

Statistically, fighters who test positive for PED's lose fights more often than win them.  PED's are known to cause long term damage to organs and health & may be considered a hindrance moreso than a benefit.  

Silva ribs were supposedly _bruised_ not broken.  

Sonnen punched him in the ribs more than once & Silva didn't react in the way one might expect from someone with bruised or broken ribs.  I'm not sure how bad the injury was or what effect it had on the fight.

AFAIK, the UFC offered Anderson Silva the opportunity to fight Chael 3-4 times recently & Silva declined 3-4 times.

Even if Silva's injury is completely healed he doesn't seem to want anything to do with Chael.

People are saying Chael went easy on Bisping to give the impression that hes weaker than he is to entice Silva to take the fight - which is why Chael wanted a split decision.

Whatever the facts may be there are definitely a lot of question marks, present.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 2, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> Typically it matters cuz the guy you will be fighting is the guy whom you fought in the first one.


 It only matters that Silva has fought Chael, not the other way around. Chael never changes, Silva can use a different gameplan.

Chael will do exactly the same thing he did last time and everyone knows it.


----------



## Matariki (Feb 2, 2012)

> I can tell you that he'll need to keep his hands up, because a knockout might happen. He'll need to keep his hands way up, in high guard. I think I'll hit his legs a lot. Roy Nelson is very tough and can endure a lot of beating, he showed that against [Junior dos Santos], but there's always a weak spot. I'll try to look for that flaw during the fight. I think I will win with agility and mobility. I am well mentally, as well as physically, much faster and this will be determinant in this fight, due to the fact that he's slower, a fatty.



Werdum by KO


----------



## Arishem (Feb 2, 2012)

Hans Zimmer wrote the new UFC intro.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 2, 2012)

Isn't that the villain from Die Hard?


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 2, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> It only matters that Silva has fought Chael, not the other way around. Chael never changes, Silva can use a different gameplan.
> 
> Chael will do exactly the same thing he did last time and everyone knows it.



What could Anderson possibly do different? It's not like he has a choice but to be on his back unless his TDD has improved significantly. I mean sure he might try to get to his feet quicker but it's not like his scrambles are that good, he usually stall with closed guard that the ref stands it up...oh wait the fight is in Brazil and it's basically a kickboxing match.  



Seiko said:


> Werdum by KO



Good luck.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 3, 2012)

Good calls / bad calls?

I think I might stay with this, just less heavy on Bruce Leeroy.


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 3, 2012)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Good calls / bad calls?
> 
> I think I might stay with this, just less heavy on Bruce Leeroy.




What are the odds on Werdum vs Nelson, the sites format looks kind of weird to me. I think Werdum would whoop Roy's ass.


Are you doing a parlay?


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 3, 2012)

If Roy is underdog against Werdum, bet on him, he might KO Werdum.

If you're doing a parlay, bet on Werdum.


----------



## Teach (Feb 3, 2012)

Nelson trolled hard on the pre-fight press. He was saying that Werdum outstriked Alistair


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 3, 2012)

Violent By Design said:


> What are the odds on Werdum vs Nelson, the sites format looks kind of weird to me. I think Werdum would whoop Roy's ass.
> 
> Are you doing a parlay?



The decimal system is based on a system of $100.  .40 means $40 won for every $100 wagered.  1.50 is $150 won per $100 wagered and so on.

I think Nelson and Werdum are pretty evenly matched.  

I'm guessing Nelson hits harder than Werdum does.  I think they're almost even on the ground, Werdum is better there but not by a lot, I'm thinking.

Parlays are nice.  Moreso trying to see how accurate or inaccurate I can be with my calls. 

For parlay I would probably choose Ed Herman some of the fights that look more like mismatches.  :WOW



Aokiji said:


> If Roy is underdog against Werdum, bet on him, he might KO Werdum.
> 
> If you're doing a parlay, bet on Werdum.



Good advice, thx.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 4, 2012)

Werdum via SD
Koscheck via first round KO
Diaz via fourth round TKO
Herman via first round submission
Barao via second round submission


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 4, 2012)

*Nick Diaz < Carlos Condit*

Condit is more technical with his striking.  Diaz is one dimensional with his tactic of backing fighters into the fence & unloading on them.  If Condit has the power to hurt Diaz he has this.  But, if the fight drags on and it becomes a war of attrition, there's no way Condit will match Diaz punch for punch or kick for kick.  I think the Greg Jackson support and gameplanning will make up the difference here & Condit'll walk away with the win.  Which would be a bummer as Diaz is one of my favorite fighters.  

*Roy Nelson > Fabricio Werdum*

Nelson is strong and durable and hits like the fist of an angry god fueled by infinite cheezburger.  His main drawback standing is his relatively short reach & at times lack of mobility.  Werdum hit Overeem with everything but the kitchen sink & didn't seem to make a dent in him.  I think Nelson'll beat Werdum up standing & on the ground...   

*Josh Koscheck > Mike Pierce*

Koscheck all day.

*Renan Bar?o < Scott Jorgensen*

Renan has awesome subs but can he get Jorgensen to the ground to work them?  Jorgensen with his NCAA div 1 wrestling could avoid the takedown & batter Renan on the feet.  I'm thinking Jorgensen has this if he can keep it standing which I think....  he will.  Can't say I've seen Barao fight before all I know is he has awesome subs.

*Ed Herman > Clifford Starks*

Herman was impressive with his sub over Kyle Noke.  Clifford Starks looks like a strong, tough, dude but I don't think he has the technique or training background to really be a major threat.

*Dustin Poirier > Max Holloway*

Poirier all day, and night.

*Matthew Riddle > Jorge Lopez*

Don't know much about either of these guys.  Riddle looked a weight class or two larger than Lopez and I know hes a decent fighter.  I'm thinking statistically he'll take this on size and weight advantages if nothing else.

*Alex Caceres > Edwin Figueroa*

Classic technical striker versus brawler match up.  Figueroa'll come out winging bombs Leonard Garcia style.  I could see Caceres picking him apart with his technical striking or taking Figueroa down and subbing him.  But, I haven't really seen Figueroa fight much and with Caceres you never really know what's going to do...  should make for a fun and exciting matchup.   

*Matt Brown > Chris Cope*

I want to believe in the Chris Cope 'wooo'..  but, I can't.  Though Chris Cope has the heart and balls of 5 viking warriors, I don't know that he has anything for Matt Brown who is much better than his record suggests.  

*Dan Stittgen < Stephen Thompson*

Stephen Tompson is close to 60-0 between his kickboxing and MMA careers.  He hasn't lost a fight in his entire career, though he may have come close in a fight where he tore his ACL and knee, not 100% certain.  Hes credited with being an elite striker from a karate and kickboxing background & trained with Marquardt, GSP & other high level MMA fighters.  Hes also trained grappling and jiu jitsu from a young age.  I would expect him to take this unless something ridiculous happens.   

*Rafael Natal < Michael Kuiper*

Natal is the more seasoned & experienced fighter but Kuiper has the better record, accolades & credentials with strong kickboxing, grappling and judo backgrounds.  All but one of Kuipers fights finished by KO/TKO or sub.  He's a potential badass in the making..  Natal is a tough guy for lasting 3 rounds against Rich Attonito, but Kuiper's probably got this.


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 4, 2012)

Teach said:


> Nelson trolled hard on the pre-fight press. He was saying that Werdum outstriked Alistair



He did. 

OWAIT Overeem destroyed Lesnar so every failure of his career has basically never happened. 

Yes, that fight, win or lose, was a negative for Overeem. Unless he had aserious injury before the fight which would explain it.


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 4, 2012)

In less I miss something, when did Roy Nelson hit with the force of the God of cheese burgers or what ever immortal itachi said. He's stopped people before, but I never thought of him as a heavy hitter.


Werdum has very underrated striking, he out struck Bigfoot Silva about 2 years ago. I'm thinking Werdum out strikes him and out grapples him. Granted if Werdum does lose, it would be related to him getting rocked.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 4, 2012)

Violent By Design said:


> In less I miss something, when did Roy Nelson hit with the force of the God of cheese burgers or what ever immortal itachi said. He's stopped people before, but I never thought of him as a heavy hitter.
> 
> 
> Werdum has very underrated striking, he out struck Bigfoot Silva about 2 years ago. I'm thinking Werdum out strikes him and out grapples him. Granted if Werdum does lose, it would be related to him getting rocked.



He jacked Struve and Schaub.


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 4, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> He jacked Struve and Schaub.



I some what acknowledged that. Though realistically, who exactly is Struve and Schuab? Struve has no defense and has been messed up by nearly everyone he has fought (win or lose), and Schuab also has bad defense, just relies on his athleticism.


----------



## Mori` (Feb 4, 2012)

brutal brutal brutal knockout by Thompson.

What a way to debut


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 4, 2012)

Holy shit, I had no idea Stephen Thompson was in the UFC. Awesome knock out.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 4, 2012)

Alright, let's go main card. See if I did right by my main card picks.


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 4, 2012)

What a fucking bunch of morons. 

Koscheck got outstruck the whole fight except maybe for the 3rd round. How can these people be allowed to determine a the winner of a professional sports competition?

I mean seriously, what the fuck.


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 4, 2012)

Werdum would have murdered Brock Lesnar. Never got how people would say he was not UFC level.


----------



## Xerces (Feb 4, 2012)

Werdum's superior* K-1 level striking* crushed Nelson's kung-fu style. His wheel kicks were fired at a veracity that has never been seen in the UFC.


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 5, 2012)

Violent By Design said:


> *Werdum would have murdered Brock Lesnar*. Never got how people would say he was not UFC level.



Based on what? 

He would be favoured, but pre-illness Lesnar TKO'd Mir.  


That being said - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Diaz.  Sad thing is, he is right. But what a punk this is. He is a fucking child. Dana probably wants to poison his family right now.


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 5, 2012)

Wow, Sherdog reaching ATG stupidity.  Butthurt Diaz fans


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 5, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> Based on what?
> 
> He would be favoured,


Based on superior striking and ground game.  





> but pre-illness Lesnar TKO'd Mir.
> 
> .



That only puts him in company with like 4 other fighters.


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 5, 2012)

Violent By Design said:


> Based on superior striking and ground game.
> 
> That only puts him in company with like 4 other fighters.



 Do you really count Vera and that other dude? Oh and Carwin didn't do it on the ground. We know how dangerous he can be on the ground yet Lesnar destroyed him pretty easily. Sure, Werdum might have better positioning, but I wouldn't count out Lesnar.


----------



## Arishem (Feb 5, 2012)

This about sums up the card:


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 5, 2012)

It's official: Just Bleed fans are the cancer that's killing MMA.  That and shitty judging.


----------



## Gray Wolf (Feb 5, 2012)

Carlos Condit landed more strikes and showed how flawed Nick Diaz's fighting style is.


----------



## Xerces (Feb 5, 2012)

*Condit clearly won that fight.* Any nut off the street can look cool by walking forward, taunting, and eating shots all fight from Condit.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 5, 2012)

It wasn't a one sided beating, but Diaz lost man. Early on Diaz was pressuring him, but Condit was landing with ease towards the mid way point. Aggression shouldn't be scored higher than effective striking and movement. Octagon control doesn't necessarily mean always pushing forward, seeing as Condit controlled distance by circling and constantly taking the fight back where he wanted it.



There was not one point in this fight after the 2nd round where Diaz was landing the kind of stuff Condit was landing. Sure Diaz would pressure him with some punches, but for everyone one of those, Condit was landing hard leg kicks, his own punches and combos like the one I just posted.

Definitely closer than the judges scored it, but Condit is the obvious winner.


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 5, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> Do you really count Vera and that other dude? Oh and Carwin didn't do it on the ground. We know how dangerous he can be on the ground yet Lesnar destroyed him pretty easily. Sure, Werdum might have better positioning, but I wouldn't count out Lesnar.



Should...I not?  All of his losses have been by TKO except for Carwin (who fucked him up against the wall anyway), why would Brock Lesnar TKOing him mean he can TKO Werdum? That doesn't really make much sense. Werdum is not proned to being ground and pounded, clearly Mir is (Nogueria was beating the shit out of him too). Frank isn't great off his back and he freezes up when he takes punches well, it is pretty well documented.


----------



## Ippy (Feb 5, 2012)

*Condit clearly won that fight.*

What fight was Diaz watching (while he should have instead been throwing punches)?


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 5, 2012)

Violent By Design said:


> Should...I not?  All of his losses have been by TKO except for Carwin (who fucked him up against the wall anyway), why would Brock Lesnar TKOing him mean he can TKO Werdum? That doesn't really make much sense. Werdum is not proned to being ground and pounded, clearly Mir is (Nogueria was beating the shit out of him too). Frank isn't great off his back and he freezes up when he takes punches well, it is pretty well documented.



I dunno I was thinking that Lesnar has pretty good top control and shit. 

Strange, I was rooting for Condit, yet saw Diaz taking 1, 2 and 5. 

But again, it's great to see the lowest common denominator morons of MMA get mad.


----------



## Ippy (Feb 5, 2012)

Being the big fan of cold hard facts that I am, I hit up Fight Metric.



I agree Diaz stole round 5.  It was the takedown that made the difference, but it was too little, too late.

The butthurt is strong with Sherdog, though.


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 5, 2012)

Wibbly Wobbly said:


> Being the big fan of cold hard facts that I am, I hit up Fight Metric.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Where a guy with 2 decisions in his career is a point fighter.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 6, 2012)

He got a takedown but didn't do anything with it, where as Condit continued to implement his gameplan. I think takedowns do score points, but not in a round where you're getting lit up and all you do is get someones back for a moment. Better yet, Condit escaped and finished the round on top.


----------



## Ippy (Feb 6, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> Where a guy with 2 decisions in his career is a point fighter.


Funny, innit?



The Fireball Kid said:


> He got a takedown but didn't do anything with it, where as Condit continued to implement his gameplan. I think takedowns do score points, but not in a round where you're getting lit up and all you do is get someones back for a moment. Better yet, Condit escaped and finished the round on top.


I meant "stole the round" based on the traditional judges' history of giving the guy who scores a takedown the round, not based on what I truly believe is effective grappling.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 6, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> What could Anderson possibly do different? It's not like he has a choice but to be on his back unless his TDD has improved significantly. I mean sure he might try to get to his feet quicker but it's not like his scrambles are that good, he usually stall with closed guard that the ref stands it up...oh wait the fight is in Brazil and it's basically a kickboxing match.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck.


He has improved his TDD. He's always improving. Don't be surprised if Chael can't get Anderson down and gets knocked out in the first round off a knee during a takedown attempt.


PPV was all right. The prelims were actually better. I'm pretty disppointed in the main even though.  I wanted Diaz to win, and I wanted to see an epic fight. Condit played a smart game and used his superior speed to his advantage by avoiding all of Diaz's punches. Smart, but not very Condit-like. 

He won the fight, but he didn't "beat" Nick Diaz. Nobody beats Nick Diaz.


----------



## Ippy (Feb 6, 2012)

What's even more funny were the claims that Condit's diverse striking arsenal had nothing on Diaz's boxing, and that Diaz would easily outstrike him on the feet.

And guess what Condit beat him with?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 6, 2012)

Condit was very elusive in that fight. Diaz couldn't land anything. I think if Diaz pulled guard and took the fight to the ground more than that one time he would have won the fight.


----------



## Matariki (Feb 6, 2012)

Dana talking about a rematch.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 6, 2012)

Condit better start training his lateral movement.


----------



## Ippy (Feb 6, 2012)

Seiko said:


> Dana talking about a rematch.


Which is bullshit.

Diaz gets a rematch because he cries?  It doesn't make sense anyway, because by the time they're ready to fight again, GSP will be finished rehab.  GSP has to be on the shelf even longer just to appease Diaz's bitching?

And what happens if Diaz wins?  They would HAVE to have a rubber match, which means GSP on the shelf even longer...



CrazyMoronX said:


> Condit better start training his lateral movement.




You mean Diaz better start training his lateral movement... right?

Diaz's footwork is suspect.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 6, 2012)

No, Condit is going to run away better.


----------



## Ippy (Feb 6, 2012)

If by "run away", you mean "circling Zombie Diaz effectively and outstriking him", you are right.


----------



## Ippy (Feb 6, 2012)

btw, I hate using the word "exposed", but I simply had to.

 (Taichou = me, btw)

Bring it, CMX.  Bring it.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 6, 2012)

He had a really good gameplan, I agree to that. He won the fight convincingly. 

Just disappointed Diaz didn't win. He could have won if he took the fight to the groud, I think. I mean at some point you gotta go for it, and he kinda did, but it was too little too late.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 6, 2012)

Good fight by Condit. He clearly won that; I don't why so many fighters feel Nick won. 

If it really is Nick's last fight, it's been a great ride. Feels like it was just yesterday I was watching this guy high as hell after hitting a bong during a conference call with Zaromskis. He'll always be in my top 5 and the most exciting fighter I've seen. 

UFC 144 is going to be something else.


----------



## sirbenoit (Feb 6, 2012)

i was shocked that diaz lost this fight, glad i didnt have money on it..  ufc 144 Main Card
Edgar vs Henderson

Jackson vs Bader

Hunt vs Kongo

Akiyama vs Shields

Gomi vs Mitsuoka

Okami vs Boetsch

Hioki vs Palaszewski

Pettis vs Lauzon

Prelims
Yamamoto vs Lee

Fukuda vs Cantwell

Mizugaki vs Cariaso


----------



## Ippy (Feb 6, 2012)

I cannot wait until Edgar vs. Henderson and I think even the Sexy can make a fight with Shields fun to watch.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 6, 2012)

Well we all knew it was gonna happen but they just made it official today Jon"bones"Jones vs Rashad evans at UFC 145 in Atlanta April 21st 

should be one hell of a fight.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 7, 2012)

I am extremely excited for UFC 144. No booing when the fights hit the ground. No chants of "USA". Takanori Gomi set to get a good win (albeit over an easy opponent) after a bad loss. Possibly the fight of the year in Bendo/Edgar.

My picks:

Frankie Edgar vs. *Ben Henderson* (Unanimous decision)

*Quinton Jackson* vs. Ryan Bader (TKO RND 1)

*Yoshihiro Akiyama* vs. Jake Shields (Split decision)

Mark Hunt vs. *Cheick Kongo* (Unanimous decision)

*Takanori Gomi* vs. Eiji Mitsuoka (KO RND 1)

*Yushin Okami* vs. Tim Boetsch (Unanimous decision)

Hatsu Hioki vs. *Bart Palaszewski* (KO RND 2)

Anthony Pettis vs. *Joe Lauzon* (SUB RND 1)

*Kid Yamamoto* vs. Vaughan Lee (KO RND 1)

*Riki Fukuda* vs. Steve Cantwell (Unanimous decision)

*Takeya Mizugaki* vs. Chris Cariaso (TKO RND 1)

Tiequan Zhang vs. *Nam Phan* (Split decision)

*Fight of the Night*: Edgar/Henderson
*KO of the Night*: Takanori Gomi
*Submission of the Night*: Joe Lauzon (or Hatsu Hioki, providing he beats Palaszewski)

Really pulling for Hioki, but I have a feeling he's gonna get KOed :\ Palaszewski is really talking a lot of crap, so I hope Hioki puts him to sleep.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 7, 2012)

I really want Hioki, Shields, and Frankie to get wins.

Kazuo Misaki on the next Srikeforce card? Sounds cool, and he's fighting Daley. He's probably going to get TKO'd, but hopefully he can pull out a W there or at least show he still has the chin. (I thought the stoppage against Manhoef was a bit premature.)


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 7, 2012)

Misaki had a FUCKING CHIN, man. His fight with Jorge Patino made me a fan instantly. Hope he can pull out the win.

Essentially, I'm rooting for every Japanese fighter on the card. Does this make me a JMMA weaboo ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)? Yes, it does. No care ever.


----------



## Teach (Feb 7, 2012)

Frankie Edgar vs. *Ben Henderson * - I hate that little fucker Edgar. But I also truly believe Benson has the tools to win.

*Quinton Jackson* vs. Ryan Bader 

Yoshihiro Akiyama vs. *Jake Shields* - Jake easily. Akiyama has no chance.

*Mark Hunt* vs. Cheick Kongo - Longshot yea

*Takanori Gomi* vs. Eiji Mitsuoka
*
Yushin Okami* vs. Tim Boetsch 

*Hatsu Hioki* vs. Bart Palaszewski

*Anthony Pettis* vs. Joe Lauzon 

*Kid Yamamoto* vs. Vaughan Lee

*Riki Fukuda* vs. Steve Cantwell 

*Takeya Mizugaki* vs. Chris Cariaso 

*Tiequan Zhang* vs. Nam Phan - Nam will get cut out of UFC


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 7, 2012)

Teach said:


> Yoshihiro Akiyama vs. *Jake Shields* - Jake easily. Akiyama has no chance.



How so? Akiyama is the better kickboxer, is more durable and is better in the clinch. His only bad area in a fight with Jake is on the ground, and even then Akiyama is a pretty good grappler.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 7, 2012)

I had a feeling Condit would fight a technical fight & move a lot.  

I always thought Diaz relied on backing ppl into the cage too heavily & that someone would force him to fight in the center of the cage & expose some of the holes in his striking.

I remember saying it before the BJ Penn fight.  :

This is the earliest quote I'm willing to dig up...  for teh l4me...



1mmortal 1tachi said:


> *BJ Penn and Paul Daley were out-striking Diaz in the center of the cage*.
> 
> *Its only when Diaz backs someone up against the cage that he can really unload on them*.
> 
> BJ moves straight back.  *What he really needed to do was move backwards and a little to the left or right to give an angle & circle around Diaz to avoid being cornered*.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 7, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> I am extremely excited for UFC 144. No booing when the fights hit the ground. No chants of "USA". Takanori Gomi set to get a good win (albeit over an easy opponent) after a bad loss. Possibly the fight of the year in Bendo/Edgar.


Instead we'll get them cheering for Japanese stars and booing Americans. 

My picks:

*Frankie Edgar *vs. Ben Henderson (TKO)

Quinton Jackson vs. *Ryan Bader *(UD)

Yoshihiro Akiyama vs. *Jake Shields *(UD--I actually feel bad for Sexy)

*Mark Hunt *vs. Cheick Kongo (KO--wishful thinking [_Kongo UD_])

Takanori Gomi vs. *Eiji Mitsuoka *(UD)

*Yushin Okami* vs. Tim Boetsch (UD)

Hatsu Hioki vs. *Bart Palaszewski* (TKO)

Anthony Pettis vs. *Joe Lauzon* (SUB RND 1)

Kid Yamamoto vs*. Vaughan Lee *(UD)

*Riki Fukuda* vs. Steve Cantwell (UD)

*Takeya Mizugaki* vs. Chris Cariaso (TKO RND 3)

Tiequan Zhang vs. *Nam Phan* (UD)



I have a feeling the Japanese team will be losing quite a few.


----------



## sirbenoit (Feb 7, 2012)

*Edgarv*s Henderson

*Jackson *vs Bader

Hunt vs *Kongo*
Akiyama vs* Shields*
*Gomi *vs Mitsuoka

*Okami *vs Boetsch

Hioki vs Palaszewski...?

*Pettis* vs Lauzon

Prelims
Yamamoto vs Lee

Fukuda vs Cantwell

Mizugaki vs Cariaso


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 7, 2012)

I absolutely don't agree with Mitsuoka or Lee winning at 144.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 7, 2012)

Hioki is a great grappler and his striking is very underrated. I think with his size advantage and ground game, he could possibly take it. I'm going with Bart because of how Hioki looked in his fight with Roop, BUT, I'm rooting for Hioki.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 7, 2012)

I only bet against Gomi and Kid because they always find a way to lose.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 7, 2012)

Gomi will tear through Mitsuoka. Mitsuoka is a good grappler, but his stand up is weak. And Lee is mediocre, Kid HAS to win.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 7, 2012)

And I don't think the Japanese would boo anyone. Too respectful.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 7, 2012)

On paper you're right, they'd both win their respective fights. But I am sure they'll lose anyway.

If I had to pick one winner of the two I would bet on Gomi given his big advantages. But Kid always loses now.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 7, 2012)

Kid forgot how to wrestle.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 7, 2012)

I never really followed his career anyway so I'm indifferent. But I'll be pulling for Gomi.


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 7, 2012)

Wibbly Wobbly said:


> Funny, innit?
> 
> I meant "stole the round" based on the traditional judges' history of giving the guy who scores a takedown the round, not based on what I truly believe is effective grappling.



Honestly, you guys just calling it a "takedown" instead of "taking his back" is startling.  I mean a takedown in it self is not really that much of a big deal, taking someone's back is really dominant though, while being ina guys guard is not necessarily even an advantage. There is a difference. I mean We saw Overeem refusing to dive into Werdum's guard. Would he have declined taking his back? 

I would expect such superficial observing from NSAC judges, not from you guys.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 7, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I never really followed his career anyway so I'm indifferent. But I'll be pulling for Gomi.



Dude had potential up the ass. And me too. Obviously.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 7, 2012)

He was already declining before he even got to the UFC.

I remember the dream match-ups back in the WEC days when he was a killer.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 7, 2012)

Speaking of Japanese fighters with potential, Darren Uyenoyama is severely underrated in the UFC. Such a good grappler. I really hope he beats John Dodson @ flyweight.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 8, 2012)

Word is circulating on twitter that Carlos Condit has agreed to a rematch vs Diaz

thoughts?


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 8, 2012)

Nick really doesn't deserve a rematch (despite all the disputation). Dana is probably trying his best to make it happen because he knows he can't lose a draw like Nick to early retirement. He just wants to make more money off him with Lesnar gone and GSP likely only having 1 fight again this year.

Plus I have a bad feeling that if a rematch does happen, it's going to turn out worse for Nick. If he wins though, wouldn't that warrant a rubber match? It has the possibility of ending up with even more controversy that it has now.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 8, 2012)

Hopefully they will fight in July setting up a fight with GSP in November.


----------



## sirbenoit (Feb 8, 2012)

why would they want a rematch? so if nick wins would we have a 3rd fight then the winner takes on gsp, that would suck..


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 8, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Speaking of Japanese fighters with potential, Darren Uyenoyama is severely underrated in the UFC. Such a good grappler. I really hope he beats John Dodson @ flyweight.


 I'm not sure who that is, but I got Dodson winning that tournament. Just because. 


Vespy89 said:


> Word is circulating on twitter that Carlos Condit has agreed to a rematch vs Diaz
> 
> thoughts?


 That'd be interesting. I think Diaz takes the rematch if he plays his cards right, but he'll need to actually have a gameplan that isn't "walk down and punch in face".



sirbenoit said:


> why would they want a rematch? so if nick wins would we have a 3rd fight then the winner takes on gsp, that would suck..


Trilogy? Nah. If Nick wins then the UFC will bury the rubber match and make absolutely sure that GSP gets the opponent he wants.

After the GSP fight then they could set up a third fight and it'd be the biggest fight in WW history.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 8, 2012)

Stylistically, I don't know how you could put together a better match-up .


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 8, 2012)

Nate Diaz vs Nick Diaz.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 8, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I'm not sure who that is, but I got Dodson winning that tournament. Just because.



Darren Uyenoyama, the guy that beat Kid recently at UFC on Fox 1? Dodson isn't in the flyweight tournament, btw.

I hate Dodson, I think he's a prick and I want to see him lose.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 8, 2012)

And man, fuck a Condit/Diaz rematch.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 8, 2012)

> Flyweight tournament 
> No Mamoru

Fuck this tourney.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 8, 2012)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> > Flyweight tournament
> > No Mamoru
> 
> Fuck this tourney.



He should be in it, I agree. Also Jussier da Silver. But, I also think Mamoru is signed with Shooto so maybe it's a contract thing?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 8, 2012)

Wait, I thought Dodson was fighting Uncle Creepy in the tournament? 

Maybe I have my fighters mixed up.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 8, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Wait, I thought Dodson was fighting Uncle Creepy in the tournament?
> 
> Maybe I have my fighters mixed up.



No, Demetrious Johnson is.



John Dodson is the most recent TUF winner.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 8, 2012)

Sanchez vs Ellenberger is coming up in exactly a week. I did a pre-fight analysis of the match up here.

There's also my Diaz vs Condit breakdown.


P.S. I find it funny everyone is completely disbelieving Diaz's retirement statement. There are already predictions for when/where the Condit Diaz rematch is happening. I mean come on-- let's at least respect the guy's wishes and play along until he decides to announce his triumphant return.

eDiT: Rumor mill is going crazy right now about Diaz failing his drug test. NSAC hasn't confirmed it yet...


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 8, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> Sanchez vs Ellenberger is coming up in exactly a week. I did a pre-fight analysis of the match up here.
> 
> There's also my Diaz vs Condit breakdown.
> 
> ...



Diaz seems like the kind of guy who would retire out of anger, I can see why people don't take his retirement seriously.

I've heard there's a rematch, but apparently Cesar is saying it's a no go.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 8, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> No, Demetrious Johnson is.
> 
> 
> 
> John Dodson is the most recent TUF winner.


 Ohhhh, right. Now I remember.

Mighty Mouse.

Not sure how I got the two mixed up, but I'm pulling for Mighty Mouse because I don't like the other guy (based solely on appearance ).


As for Dodson, well, he's aiight.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 8, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Ohhhh, right. Now I remember.
> 
> Mighty Mouse.
> 
> ...



Racist. 

And why don't you like Uncle Creepy? He's good.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 8, 2012)

I saw him on an MMA show and he looked like a homo.


Is that a bad thing to judge a fighter on? His makeup during an MMA show?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 8, 2012)

Looks pretty bad ass to me. Could do without the nail polish, tho.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 8, 2012)

He looks realtively normal there, but on Inside MMA it looked like he was wearing heavy makeups. 

Not cool.

Maybe I misjudged the guy.


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 8, 2012)

Nail polish = gay. Unless MAYBE you are Trent Reznor.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 8, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> Nail polish = gay. Unless MAYBE you are Trent Reznor.



The reason fighters wear nail polish is it makes the nails harder (thus, less chance of a cracked/chipped nail). Also, if a guy stomps your foot and breaks your toe it is harder for him to see that when your toenails are painted black-- meaning he is less likely to continue attacking that foot.

Honestly, do any of you guys do any sparring at all? That's basic stuff-- it has nothing to do with being gay any more than rolling does.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 8, 2012)

So who do you all have in the Diego vs Ellenberger fight next week?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 9, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> The reason fighters wear nail polish is it makes the nails harder (thus, less chance of a cracked/chipped nail). Also, if a guy stomps your foot and breaks your toe it is harder for him to see that when your toenails are painted black-- meaning he is less likely to continue attacking that foot.
> 
> Honestly, do any of you guys do any sparring at all? That's basic stuff-- it has nothing to do with being gay any more than rolling does.



Well damn, I didn't know that. I had seen people wear wear nail polish but I had always assumed it was just for show? Haha. Cool to know.

And no, I can't. :\ Not much cash flow right now and the only BJJ/muay thai gym near me is 100 bucks a month.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 9, 2012)

Vespy89 said:


> So who do you all have in the Diego vs Ellenberger fight next week?



Ellenberger by 3rd RND TKO.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 9, 2012)

Vespy89 said:


> So who do you all have in the Diego vs Ellenberger fight next week?


 I like both fighters, but one holds a special moniker I cannot ignore.


The Juggernaut will crush the Dream and put his Cyttorak-powered dick into the blood-soaked asshole of the disfigured Nightmare.


Jake by UD. I don't think anyone can knock out Diego. He has a Mexican jaw.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 9, 2012)

If Jake can't knock out Sanchez that means it's going to go the full 5 rounds (no more 3 round main events, right?). So, Sanchez should have a solid shot at taking rounds 3 through 5 via better conditioning.

I do think Sanchez will get dropped at least once during this fight though.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 9, 2012)

Which platform is this on? Some of the main events are still three rounds depending on the channel.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 9, 2012)

I hope it goes all 5 rounds it's no fun watching someone get knocked out in the first round

So i'll go with Ellenberger winner by a split decision.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 9, 2012)

It's UFC on Fuel TV. 

So, are the Fuel and FX main event fights not 5 rounders?


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 9, 2012)

Heh Dustin Poirier wants to fight the korean zombie Chan Sung Jung

I think that would be an interesting fight.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 9, 2012)

Not that anyone can hang with Aldo at 145 anyways, but it would be interesting to see a contender come from a Poirier/Jung match up.


ALSO: NSAC recently confirmed someone got popped for a banned substance at UFC 143. We'll know more soon. Serious business.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 9, 2012)

Aldo will probably have to move up to 155 cause he is just dominating 145.


----------



## Mori` (Feb 9, 2012)

oh shit dramalama with that NSAC stuff.

fairly reliable source apparently stating there's more than 1 person testing positive, but says 1 is definitely Diaz (weed again?)


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 9, 2012)

Mori` said:


> oh shit dramalama with that NSAC stuff.
> 
> fairly reliable source apparently stating there's more than 1 person testing positive, but says 1 is definitely Diaz (weed again?)



Yeah, just got announced that Diaz tested positive for "marijuana metabolites."

Fucking shocking.


Someone else also got popped I guess?


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 9, 2012)

What kinda punishment is he gonna face now that he's been caught?


----------



## Mori` (Feb 9, 2012)

Vespy89 said:


> What kinda punishment is he gonna face now that he's been caught?



suspension by the NSAC at least.

Not sure if it'll be longer this time since he was caught before, but he got 6months after the Gomi fight. Don't know how they treat repeated weed offences given it's not like testing positive for a steroid.

As for what the UFC will do I have no idea, they could kick him to the curb given he's difficult to deal with, but he's obviously a draw if they're trending near 400k buys for his fight with Condit (massively up on the numbers vs Penn) so I doubt they'd be too eager to see him go.

I suspect a suspension, a contenders fight when he's back, and then (presuming he wins) a fight vs the winner of Condit vs GSP. Very easy to sell either if he can get to it. Something like that.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 9, 2012)

Vespy89 said:


> What kinda punishment is he gonna face now that he's been caught?



Depends. It might not be that bad if he argues that he got a false positive due to consuming large amounts of hemp seed oil (which is not that outlandish given how much hemp based food products he consumes).

If he gets hit with the full might of the ban hammer it'll be a year before he can fight again.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 9, 2012)

Its a shame really now Condit can wait around for GSP to return and not fight.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 9, 2012)

Vespy89 said:


> Heh Dustin Poirier wants to fight the korean zombie Chan Sung Jung
> 
> I think that would be an interesting fight.


 That could be good.

Zombie by Twister. 


Gallic Rush said:


> Yeah, just got announced that Diaz tested positive for "marijuana metabolites."
> 
> Fucking shocking.
> 
> ...


 Doesn't Nick have a medical marijuana license though? That bastard.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm new to the whole MMA scene but what is a twister?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 9, 2012)

It's a submission that cranks the neck and twists the spine (hence: Twister). It is actually a modified wrestling move (guillotine).

Wrestling:


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 9, 2012)

Hmm i need to know whether or not i should spend 45 dollars on UFC 144 ?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 9, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Doesn't Nick have a medical marijuana license though? That bastard.



It doesn't matter. Just because something is legal for you to take doesn't mean it's allowed by the state athletic commission. Same deal with say, pain killers. Perfectly legal with a prescription, but if you get popped for pain killers you're getting suspended and fined.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 10, 2012)

Will the event on Wednesday be the first UFC event in Nebraska?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 10, 2012)

Vespy89 said:


> Heh Dustin Poirier wants to fight the korean zombie Chan Sung Jung
> 
> I think that would be an interesting fight.



KZ by TKO. Better striker of the two, and maybe even better ground game.


----------



## Ippy (Feb 10, 2012)

LOL @ Diaz crying his way to a rematch, but throwing it all away long before the first fight actually started.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 10, 2012)

Vespy89 said:


> Hmm i need to know whether or not i should spend 45 dollars on UFC 144 ?


 I spent 50 bucks on Silva vs Okami and don't regret it.

This UFC Japan card is stacked higher than Bill Gate's bank account.


Gallic Rush said:


> It doesn't matter. Just because something is legal for you to take doesn't mean it's allowed by the state athletic commission. Same deal with say, pain killers. Perfectly legal with a prescription, but if you get popped for pain killers you're getting suspended and fined.


That's true, but I thought he had some special arrangements made after the Gomi incident. 

What an idiot.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 10, 2012)

Lorenzo Fertitta did a impromtu Q&A session with fans and here are some tidbits

JDS vs Overeem will take place May 26th
Tito Ortiz and Forrest Griffin will have a rubber match
Also Mir vs Velasquez is in the works.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 10, 2012)

May is forever away. 

Hulk by armbar.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 10, 2012)

After UFC 144 we might be looking at three stacked PPV cards

Evans vs Jones-UFC 145 April 21st
JDS vs Overeem-UFC 146 May 26th
Sonnen vs Silva 2-UFC 147 June 29th


----------



## pussyking (Feb 10, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> If he gets hit with the full might of the ban hammer it'll be a year before he can fight again.



but its just herb.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 10, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> May is forever away.
> 
> Hulk by armbar.


We have a ton of great fights before then. UFC Japan is in a little over 2 weeks. It will be amaaaaaaaazing.



pussyking said:


> but its just herb.



Thought you were talking about Herb Dean for a second. 
Yeah, it is just weed, but weed happens to be a schedule I banned substance under the Controlled Substances Act. So, sucks to be you if you enjoy ripping a bong load or eating an edible every now and again and live in the U.S.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 10, 2012)

Dustin Poirier vs Korean Zombie will be the main event for UFC on fuel tv 3 in Fairfax,VA May 15th.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 10, 2012)

I want to fly to Japan to watch that shit it's so good.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 10, 2012)

I'm going to try and do a breakdown of each of the main card fights. Too many gems in there to pass up. Some pretty important fights too considering the Japanese basically have their best fighters going to battle, and if they lose more fights than they win that's going to reflect terribly on the state of J-MMA. Especially considering the two Brazil cards were foreigner slaughter-fests.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 10, 2012)

I'm looking forward to the UFC's first trip to swedan that should be a good card.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 10, 2012)

Stacked like my penis after watching Sister Sister.


----------



## Ippy (Feb 10, 2012)

Weed is used as a painkiller.

Diaz is known for being tough and taking a lot of punishment.

Hmmmm.....


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 10, 2012)

He's on performance enhancing drugs.


----------



## Ippy (Feb 10, 2012)

Some of Condit's kicks landed flush on the chin.  And knowing his power, those likely would have been fight ending moves against lesser (stoned) men.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 10, 2012)

I saw UFC 143 did 400K buys is that good?


----------



## Ippy (Feb 10, 2012)

It's not bad.

It's certainly not Lensar-card level, but it's not bad.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 10, 2012)

Since that Japan card is stacked i expect they'll go over 400k 

Are they still dominating boxing and Wwe in Ppv buyrate?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 10, 2012)

Vespy89 said:


> Since that Japan card is stacked i expect they'll go over 400k
> 
> Are they still dominating boxing and Wwe in Ppv buyrate?



I have no idea about WWE stuff... but a lot of boxing PPVs get smashed by UFC numbers. The biggest fights like Pacquiao or Mayweather fights still own the UFC big time though. 

That said, the numbers for the UFC have slid somewhat... you look at the average PPV buyrate for 2011 and it's around 425k per event (GSP, Anderson Silva, and Lesnar were the biggest draws at around 800k for their events). 

If UFC Japan cannot beat 400k PPV buys with a card that stacked... well, I'm not sure what the fuck they're going to blame it on this time.

EDIT: I guess it should be mentioned the two free UFC on Fox cards drew a total of about 14 million American viewers... so... that's pretty good I guess? It's gotta count for something anyways... they blew a heavyweight title match that would have been at least a 500k PPV...


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 10, 2012)

Wibbly Wobbly said:


> Weed is used as a painkiller.
> 
> Diaz is known for being tough and taking a lot of punishment.
> 
> Hmmmm.....



I can assure you that it's bullshit.  

Maybe in certain amounts and intake forms but he probably wasn't even stoned, that stuff shows up days or weeks after you've taken it even though the effect is gone after a few hours. 

Fairly unlikely that he smoked a few hours before the fight.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 11, 2012)

Roger Gracie just signed with the UFC! Awesome news.


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 11, 2012)

Wibbly Wobbly said:


> It's not bad.
> 
> It's certainly not Lensar-card level, but it's not bad.



Not bad? You have some high standards. 400,000k buyrate for a card that wasn't stacked is a lot better than not bad.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 11, 2012)

Violent By Design said:


> Not bad? You have some high standards. 400,000k buyrate for a card that wasn't stacked is a lot better than not bad.



6 of the events from last year did better PPV numbers, 10 did worse. So, it's decent, but not really amazing. Last year was a pretty off year for the UFC though-- the year before that had way higher averages.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 11, 2012)

Out of all the places the UFC hasn't been yet where would you like to see them go?


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 11, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> 6 of the events from last year did better PPV numbers, 10 did worse. So, it's decent, but not really amazing. Last year was a pretty off year for the UFC though-- the year before that had way higher averages.





If Rory Macdonald fought Brian Ebersole as the main event for a PPV and it drew 300,000k, it would not be average just because that is the PPV average for UFCs. That is a lot of money for guys who are not really huge stars.

For this current example, you're talking about a one fight card, that consisted of Nick Diaz (who is a draw, but not really a proven PPV draw) and Carlos Condit (who is not really a draw), and a co-main event between guys who are considered gate keepers to the general public (neither are draws). They drew 100,000k more than an average UFC PPV, and four times as much as an average WWE PPV. 

The PPV's buyrates certainly overachived and it was quite a successful event given it was only an interim title match (even using your own statistics, it drawing more money than 10 events from last year would be considered impressive not the opposite). I would give the event more credit in saying that it success was better than "decent" or "not bad", decent is when you get a C+ or a B- on a test .

It certainly says a lot about how much people would pay to see Nick Diaz.


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 12, 2012)

Am I the only one who doesn't understand why UFC gets billed as the "best promotion" during their time with PRIDE? I mean apparently, Wanderlei stopped being successful
because he started fighting the "best competition".  

Let's see.

HW: PRIDE, not even close. Couture, Sylvia and Arlovski were the ones who held the belt in the UFC. Fedor finished both Timmay and AA in less then a round. Big Nog finished Timmay and humiliated Randy. PRIDE HW > UFC HW. 

LHW: Chuck, the best UFC LHW guy got sonned by Rampage on 2 different occasions. The same Rampage who couldn't win the belt in PRIDE. Once the PRIDE guys came over, the UFC elite in LHW stopped being as successful.

MW: I dunno, Anderson part of PRIDE once? He mauled Rich pretty badly.

So how was UFC better than PRIDE back then?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 12, 2012)

Not to mention Gomi @ LW.


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 12, 2012)

Lost to Penn, bro.   Seems like at LW, UFC > PRIDE.


----------



## Matariki (Feb 12, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqlCPWH3r3Y[/YOUTUBE]

PRIDE 



Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Roger Gracie just signed with the UFC! Awesome news.



He didn't ...


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 12, 2012)

Violent By Design said:


> [...]
> The PPV's buyrates certainly overachived and it was quite a successful event given it was only an interim title match (even using your own statistics, it drawing more money than 10 events from last year would be considered impressive not the opposite).
> 
> [...]
> ...



Just finished an article on this topic.

Although the article has nothing to do with Condit vs. Diaz specifically, you can see that this event barely tipped last year's PPV averages. Although I do believe piracy had a lot to do with why those numbers were so low, it does suggest Diaz's draw power was less than what people originally thought it would be.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 12, 2012)

Do you think the UFC's exposure on Fox will help or hurt them in the PPV buyrates?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 12, 2012)

Vespy89 said:


> Do you think the UFC's exposure on Fox will help or hurt them in the PPV buyrates?



By itself I think it will probably help, more so in the long run than in the near future. Obviously the UFC is banking on the wider exposure outweighing the lost PPV buys from events like Velasquez vs. Dos Santos. Frankly, I think taking advantage of their exposure is about a lot more than PPV numbers anyways.

I mean, when you think about the Globo channel having 22 million Brazilians watching Velasquez vs. Dos Santos you got to think the sponsorship opportunities are huge.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 12, 2012)

I just want them to continue to rise and keep growing.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 12, 2012)

I really think if they put the right fights together (which is hard to figure out) for Fox they are going to be able to explode in popularity. 

If the Fox fights end up being lukewarm (Evans vs Davis was a bit of a let down) it may set the UFC back for a while.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 12, 2012)

Well they can't give away the big fights away for free like JDS vs Overeem.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 13, 2012)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Roger Gracie just signed with the UFC! Awesome news.


 Roger Gracie gonna get knocked out again? 


Vespy89 said:


> Out of all the places the UFC hasn't been yet where would you like to see them go?


 My backyard!  They should do more Colorado shows.

Fuck the rest of the world.


Gallic Rush said:


> I really think if they put the right fights together (which is hard to figure out) for Fox they are going to be able to explode in popularity.
> 
> If the Fox fights end up being lukewarm (Evans vs Davis was a bit of a let down) it may set the UFC back for a while.


 Yeah, I think their next show better be pretty damn awesome, otherwise all the casual rednecks they are trying to get will think it's "gay shit" and not tune in ever again.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Heh just watched UFC 79:nemesis on Fuel Tv the Liddell vs Silva fight was brutal


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 13, 2012)

Surprised that fight went to a decision.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 13, 2012)

Seiko said:


> He didn't ...



Yeah, I realized it a little while after. Stupid rumours bringing my hopes up.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 13, 2012)

I fear the future GSP vs Condit fight might just be 2 guys moving around alot unless it becomes a battle of takedowns.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 13, 2012)

GSP will jab Condit all night long, Condit will backpedal and sidestep and throw leg kicks.

It'll be hard to judge that one.


On the other hand, GSP could just take Condit down and GNP him for 5 rounds, which is what I expect to happen. What Condit did with Diaz wouldn't work against someone like GSP who has such an incredible takedown.


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 13, 2012)

Vespy89 said:


> I fear the future GSP vs *Condit fight might just be 2 guys moving around alot* unless it becomes a battle of takedowns.





Condit doesn't fight like that, against GSP he will probably do his best Diaz impression.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 13, 2012)

Condit only has two decisions on his record. He just fought smart against Diaz, because he knew Diaz would light him up on the feet if he just stood there and had a boxing match.

I'll be interested in seeing the gameplan for GSP. I think keeping it standing is a good idea, mixing up the kicks to keep his range.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 13, 2012)

I think Condit vs Diaz II might actually happen... EDIT: Whoops... the hearing hasn't happened yet. The thing I read was from Diaz's lawyer which basically said the NSAC had no ability to prove Diaz took a bong rip on the night of the fight.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 13, 2012)

It'd be nice, but I'm not banking on it.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Could Condit beat GSP if he takes it to the ground game?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 13, 2012)

I don't think anyone can beat GSP on the ground outside of some incredibly high-level submission artist or a theoretical wrestler that is so good they can outwrestle him.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 13, 2012)

So the only chance anyone has at beating him is to outstrike him


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 13, 2012)

It isn't impossible for someone to submit him or TKO him on the ground of outwrestle him.

It's just incredibly unlikely. 

Even outstriking him seems like a tall order.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Is there anyway anyone can beat Anderson Silva?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 13, 2012)

Chael Sonnen by wrestling.


Probably.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 13, 2012)

All Sonnen needs to do is avoid getting triangled by Silva and he can win but that is easier said then done Chaels gonna ahead and talked himself into a beatdown


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 13, 2012)

I wonder who has worked on what more: Anderson Silva on takedown defense, or Chael Sonnen on submission defense.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 13, 2012)

I would hope Silva has worked on takedown defense since thats his only weak point 

How good is  Silva's submission defense? can he be submitted?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 13, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> Lost to Penn, bro.   Seems like at LW, UFC > PRIDE.



Gomi > BJ


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 13, 2012)

Vespy89 said:


> I would hope Silva has worked on takedown defense since thats his only weak point
> 
> How good is  Silva's submission defense? can he be submitted?







Ask them.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Hmm interesting Sonnen might just pull off the upset


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 13, 2012)

There is a 0.1% chance that Sonnen will submit Silva. It's more likely he'll just LNP to a UD.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 14, 2012)

Well the last person to beat Silva was Okami wasn't it? and that was like 6 years ago.


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 14, 2012)

okami beat him by DQ.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 14, 2012)

O h yeah i remember that and Silva got revenge on him not too long ago.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 14, 2012)

It's pretty black and white. If Andy can stop the takedown, he'll TKO Chael early. If he can't, I say a repeat of last time minus the late submission.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 14, 2012)

Is anyone in that weight class capable of beating him?


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 14, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I wonder who has worked on what more: Anderson Silva on takedown defense, or Chael Sonnen on submission defense.



Sonnen on submission defence.

Anderson doesn't need to stop the takedown.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 14, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Chael Sonnen by wrestling.
> 
> 
> Probably.


Don't forget he knocked Anderson down with a punch 
Sonnen by KO!



Vespy89 said:


> I would hope Silva has worked on takedown defense since thats his only weak point
> 
> How good is  Silva's submission defense? can he be submitted?


Silva is not that good on the ground. He has a quick triangle which he uses to finish the occasional dude that manages to take him down, but that's mostly it. Although I forget exactly how he took Henderson's back. I'll need to rewatch that.



Vespy89 said:


> Is anyone in that weight class capable of beating him?



I think Palhares could give Silva the exact same problem Sonnen would, only he would snap Silva's spindly legs like twigs.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 14, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> Sonnen on submission defence.
> 
> Anderson doesn't need to stop the takedown.


 Sonne has been working his jits. 


Gallic Rush said:


> Don't forget he knocked Anderson down with a punch
> Sonnen by KO!
> 
> 
> ...


 You troll. 

Palhares is a threat for sure, but I think Silva would Marquardt him, sans the grease.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 14, 2012)

They just need to bring Takase to the UFC so he can manhandle Silva again.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 14, 2012)

They just need to bring Marcus Aurelio to the UFC so he can manhandle Gomi again.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 14, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> They just need to bring Marcus Aurelio to the UFC so he can manhandle Gomi again.



He lost the rematch 

He also had a crappy run in the UFC, so THERE!


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 14, 2012)

And Gomi is a title contender.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 14, 2012)

Gomi would knock out that glass chinned Jersey Shore wannabe


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 14, 2012)

That'd be a good fight, actually. But I'd be picking Edgar by TKO in the 2nd round after Gomi gasses.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 14, 2012)

Gomi's problem was that he used to be a pretty complete fighter. He could grapple, wrestle and strike. But as time went by and he got more KOs, he relied less and less on his other skills and leaned solely on his boxing. All he has now is his power, and it's one of the easiest things to gameplan for. Same thing happened with Kid. Great wrestler, explosive, fast. Started knocking dudes out, and look at him now. Getting grapple fucked by everyone.

Happened to Joe Warren and Koscheck, too. Forgot their roots and they got knocked out.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 14, 2012)

Probably what happened to Cro Cop, except that his problem was neglecting boxing and just trying to get that one LHK.


Then he stopped setting up the LHK.

Then he stopped throwing the LHK.

But before all that he got slow.


----------



## Squifurgie (Feb 14, 2012)

What you guys think is going to happen in tomorrow's event?

-I think Ellenberger will beat Sanchez, probably by KO. Sanchez got smoked in his last fight against Kampmann and was given a BS decision. Ellenberger has way more power in his hands than Kampman, is a good wrestler and pretty well rounded.
-Struve vs Herman is a toss up, neither guy is that good, Struve is a sucker for an overhand right and we don't know enough about Herman although he didn't look that great in his debut against Einemo
-The rest of the card I have no idea, Brookins will probably beat Rocha but the rest is a toss up.


----------



## Gray Wolf (Feb 14, 2012)

Mike Bernardo died.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgZn2dez1zo[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 15, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]huMpetaJ848[/YOUTUBE]

Sanchez vs Ellenberger weigh ins.  :WOW


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 15, 2012)

I think Sanchez will win.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 15, 2012)

Bernardo died? 

And I got the Juggernaut winning a tough decision. It's going to be a brutal war.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 15, 2012)

A lot of these are tough to call...  Wouldn't be surprised if I get a long of them wrong.  

*Diego Sanchez < Jake Ellenberger*
I think their wrestling will cancel each other out & it'll become a striking war.  Diego has heart and determination but tends to lack technical proficiency and can be repetitive at times which makes him predictable.  Ellenberger is much more technical and developed as a striker & I think: hits harder.  Advantage: Ellenberger.

*Stefan Struve > Dave Herman*
Struve showed hes learned to use his height and reach in the Pat Barry fight.  I think he'll pick Herman apart at long range & finish with a sub if it goes to the ground.  

*Aaron Simpson < Ronny Markes*
Ronny Markes is a beast.  I think Simpson is more versatile & transitions better between striking/wrestling/grappling & I think he has a speed and mobility advantage.  I don't think it'll be enough to avoid having Markes overpower him, though.  Markes trains out of Nova Uniao(Jose Aldo, Diego Nunes, Renan Barao) in brazil and every fighter from there has been looking awesome lately.

*Stipe Miocic > Philip De Fries*
The only advantage De Fries might have is in the sub game.  But, Stipe has good wrestling and good TDD & should keep it standing where he'll dominate.

*T.J. Dillashaw > Walel Watson*
I think...  Dillashaw has better striking and wrestling and trained with higher level fighters.  Walel is a lot taller and has longer reach, but I think Dillashaw takes this......

*Ivan Menjivar < John Albert*
*Jonathan Brookins > Vagner Rocha*
*Buddy Roberts < Sean Loeffler*
*Anton Kuivanen < Justin Salas*
*Tim Means > Bernardo Magalhaes*.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 15, 2012)

I think Herman will knock out Struve. Struve has very bad defense, though he has been working at it. I could see Sasquatch getting submitted maybe, but he knows those tricks, he isn't gonna get tricked.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 15, 2012)

I think Pat Barry is more dangerous and a better striker than Jon Olav Einemo.

If so, Struve has fought and beaten the more dangerous strikers.  

The way Struve combos his subs is pretty awesome.  I think he could be close to Werdum level.  There aren't a lot of heavyweights who can move as fast or fluidly as he can on the ground.

*edit*:  Herman wins the fashion battle without a doubt, though:


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 15, 2012)

Well Pat Barry is also 5 feet tall.

Herman is 6'5", so Struve won't be able to keep himself away from the strikes as easily as he could against Barry.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 15, 2012)

Why are you guys talking about the Barry fight as though Struve knocked him out? He tapped him with a triangle, there is no way he would have survived long on the feet. Herman is probably going to find Struve's chin, which at this point seems like it's fallen 7 feet to the ground one too many times.

Anyways, my breakdown of the main event one more time. Basically, Ellenberger is either going to finish Sanchez early or win the early rounds for a decision. Probably way better for him that this is a 3 round fight instead of 5.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 15, 2012)

Stupid 3-rounder. 

But, yeah, I think Struve's biggest weakness is his inability to stay long. He's such an enormous man, too.


----------



## Aokiji (Feb 15, 2012)

Anderson scared homie.


----------



## Vice (Feb 15, 2012)

_Really_ don't know who to root for between Rampage and Bader. I like them both.


----------



## Vespy89 (Feb 15, 2012)

What a fight between Ellenberger and Sanchez.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 16, 2012)

Man, I want to see last night's card so bad now. 

I managed to watch the Stipe Miocic fight online when I got in to work, but I have a feeling the rest won't be so easy to find.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 16, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Man, I want to see last night's card so bad now.
> 
> I managed to watch the Stipe Miocic fight online when I got in to work, but I have a feeling the rest won't be so easy to find.



Dude, I guessed all of them correctly - except for the one I was betting on.  floll



-l0ser-



*edit* - emotes are dying a sad death, today.  :x


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 16, 2012)

I only predicted two fights on this card and I went 1-1. I was sure Struve would get knocked out.

So sure.

So very sure.


But that's cool, I actually like Struve, I just didn't think could hang in there with Herman's power.


----------



## zoro_santoryu (Feb 16, 2012)

Who do you guys think is gonna win in the future fight, Overeem vs Dos Santos? Im going for JDS


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 16, 2012)

I give a narrow edge to Junior. That is a tough fucking fight for both guys though. Overeem at more risk to gas or get his lights shut off because of a more suspect chin. Other than that, either guy can rip the other one to pieces at the first sign of a mistake.


----------



## zoro_santoryu (Feb 16, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> I give a narrow edge to Junior. That is a tough fucking fight for both guys though. Overeem at more risk to gas or get his lights shut off because of a more suspect chin. Other than that, either guy can rip the other one to pieces at the first sign of a mistake.



I agree. Though i think JDS has to gain a bit more strength to ensure his victory. Overeem looks much stronger (pure strength wise) and if he gets a hold of JDS he will be in trouble.

Looking forward to this fight


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 16, 2012)

I underestimated Reem against Brock, but I'm thinking it may be JDS retaining the title. JDS has the edge in boxing, speed, cardio and punching power. Reem is the better kick boxer, he's got the size advantage, and is obviously the better submission guy but I don't see him getting JDS to the ground.

JDS by 2nd rnd TKO?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 16, 2012)

zoro_santoryu said:


> I agree. Though i think JDS has to gain a bit more strength to ensure his victory. Overeem looks much stronger (pure strength wise) and if he gets a hold of JDS he will be in trouble.
> 
> Looking forward to this fight



I don't know about that. If by "get a hold of" you mean clinch with, I think JDS is in serious trouble no matter what kind of muscle he puts on. His superior stamina should be an advantage for him, it would make no sense for him to throw that away to try and even out an area that he will still be worse than Overeem in anyways. Overeem's clinch is something the best kickboxers in the world struggled to deal with. 

Overeem's endurance on the other hand... if he slows down too much JDS will light his ass up in the fourth and fifth rounds.


----------



## Heavenly King (Feb 17, 2012)

R.I.P Mike Bernardo one of the greats in k-1


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 17, 2012)

So, UFC 144 coming up in little over a week (crazy, eh?!)

My breakdown of Edgar vs. Henderson

Bader vs. Rampage

Going with Rampage over Bader by a wide margin. Going with Edgar over Henderson.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 17, 2012)

zoro_santoryu said:


> Who do you guys think is gonna win in the future fight, Overeem vs Dos Santos? Im going for JDS


 JDS will avoid damage the first 2-3 rounds and then knock Overeem out somewhere between the 3rd and 5th.

That's how I see it. At least, that's the safe way to fight this fight, given Overeem's propensity to slow down after the first couple. But the Werdum fight may not have been the best indicator of his new conditioning, so who knows?

Either way I like JDS and I want him to win.


Gallic Rush said:


> So, UFC 144 coming up in little over a week (crazy, eh?!)
> 
> My breakdown of Edgar vs. Henderson
> 
> ...


 Frankie will put Bendo away.  Somehow. I'm going with a tko in the 4th.

As for Bader and Rampage, I'm picking Bader by upset UD. It'll be hilarious.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 17, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Frankie will put Bendo away.  Somehow. I'm going with a tko in the 4th.
> 
> As for Bader and Rampage, I'm picking Bader by upset UD. It'll be hilarious.



Doubt Edgar can actually finish Benderson, but he is going to completely outclass him on the feet.

Picking Bader to beat Rampage is pretty bold. I mean, unless Rampage psyches himself out by wanting to please the Japanese fans too much he should crush Bader.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 17, 2012)

Bendo is an amazing talent and near-impossible to finish, this is true. I just think Edgar will shock the world. 

As for Rampage, I'm thinking that he will be overlooking Bader as an easy win and will come in underprepared. Bader will surprise him early with some huge power shots, then grind out a win. Rampage will be swinging away all night, unable to find his range.


----------



## Heavenly King (Feb 17, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> I underestimated Reem against Brock, but I'm thinking it may be JDS retaining the title. JDS has the edge in boxing, speed, cardio and punching power. Reem is the better kick boxer, he's got the size advantage, and is obviously the better submission guy but I don't see him getting JDS to the ground.
> 
> JDS by 2nd rnd TKO?



I believe you are doing it again.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 17, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Bendo is an amazing talent and near-impossible to finish, this is true. I just think Edgar will shock the world.


I think it would take Edgar a lot more than 5 rounds to wear Bendo down enough to TKO him. Then again, early ref stoppages always are a factor.



> As for Rampage, I'm thinking that he will be overlooking Bader as an easy win and will come in underprepared. Bader will surprise him early with some huge power shots, then grind out a win. Rampage will be swinging away all night, unable to find his range.


Bader has power, but he doesn't have the ability to explosively close distance and he only has a 1 inch reach advantage. If he wants to hit Rampage he's going to have to accept that he's probably going to get hit too. When it comes down to that, I think Rampage is going to be taking more shots on the arms and Bader is going to be taking more to the face.

That's just how I see the striking though. Bader has a shot at grinding out a win with wrestling. Not a great one, but the chance is still there.

I mean, Quinton really needs to come in so unprepared that people face palm for Bader to have a good chance of winning.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 17, 2012)

I'd be okay with an early stoppage as long as it makes me right. 

I also think Rampage is going to come in thinking "he got this" and get whooped on.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 18, 2012)

Heavenly King said:


> I believe you are doing it again.



How so? I'm stating facts. JDS is a better boxer, has better TD defense, better cardio (Most of Overeem's biggest losses were because he gassed), is the more agile fighter of the two and I think his footwork is better.

I think it's gonna be a pretty even fight early on, but I think Overeem will wilt later on and JDS is gonna capitalize on that and light him up.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 18, 2012)

Bendo is starting to remind me of LW Jon Fitch.    It would be awesome to see him return to his roots and put on a TKD clinic against Edgar.  With his height and reach advantage it could be the jackson approved gameplan.

Overeem vs JDS.  I would like to say Overeem will win due to him having a better arsenal and countering JDS' movement and hands with long range kicks.  But, JDS is constantly improving and could well have the edge in knowing his range.  I'll decide later, right now I'm clueless.

Bader moved well in the Tito fight.  He doesn't have to move with godlike speed and grace, considering the way Rampage plods forwards in one direction, I could see Bader fustrating him and giving him trouble with movement like CMX said.  He doesn't have to move exceptionally well, he only has to move better than Rampage does..  

Not sure...


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 18, 2012)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Bendo is starting to remind me of LW Jon Fitch.    It would be awesome to see him return to his roots and put on a TKD clinic against Edgar.  With his height and reach advantage it could be the jackson approved gameplan.
> 
> Overeem vs JDS.  I would like to say Overeem will win due to him having a better arsenal and countering JDS' movement and hands with long range kicks.  But, JDS is constantly improving and could well have the edge in knowing his range.  I'll decide later, right now I'm clueless.
> 
> ...



Funny, that's not what I remember:



You two are talking as though Rampage is a tortoise. I mean, his footwork is not fast but neither is Bader's. Plus, Bader gasses way too quick to try some kind of stick and move approach.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 18, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> Funny, that's not what I remember:
> 
> 
> 
> You two are talking as though Rampage is a tortoise. I mean, his footwork is not fast but neither is Bader's. Plus, Bader gasses way too quick to try some kind of stick and move approach.




Rampage is a tortoise.  

Bader was moving well in that fight.  So, he got dropped & finished.  That doesn't prove he wasn't doing a good job with his movement.

Frankie Edgar moves well & he got demolished in the 1st round in both fights versus Gray Maynard.

Post a gif of Frankie Edgar taking a beating in those first rounds and try to convince me Edgar doesn't move well on his feet.  It would make as much sense...


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 18, 2012)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Rampage is a tortoise.
> 
> Bader was moving well in that fight.  So, he got dropped & finished.  That doesn't prove he wasn't doing a good job with his movement.


Rampage can probably cover distance faster than Ortiz... We'll have to have a race between them and my pet turtle Michelangelo and find out for sure. (In all seriousness Rampage is definitely fast enough to catch up to Bader)



> Frankie Edgar moves well & he got demolished in the 1st round in both fights versus Gray Maynard.
> 
> Post a gif of Frankie Edgar taking a beating in those first rounds and try to convince me Edgar doesn't move well on his feet.  It would make as much sense...


Edgar was moving well, but Maynard was moving faster. Maynard slowed down in the second rounds of both fights enough for Frankie's footwork to take over. The difference is: Bader is not Edgar and cannot dance around on the outside for 1 straight round let alone 3.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 19, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> Rampage can probably cover distance faster than Ortiz... We'll have to have a race between them and my pet turtle Michelangelo and find out for sure. (In all seriousness Rampage is definitely fast enough to catch up to Bader)



Rampage has been chasing ppl around the octagon since he fought Forrest and Keith Jardine.

He couldn't catch Forrest and lost his belt as a result.  He had problems catching Jardine, but managed to win the fight.

Fast forward years and years, hes still chasing Lyoto, JBJ, Rashad and other fighters and still plods forwards at the same slow speed not succeeding terribly at cutting off the octagon or walking ppl down.

What CMX said may have seemed extremely simple and off the cuff.  But, if you think about it, you might realize he has a very good point.  

His entire career hes been chasing people with a healthy respect for his punching power and its not necessarily clear that hes gotten any better at it.



Gallic Rush said:


> Edgar was moving well, but Maynard was moving faster. Maynard slowed down in the second rounds of both fights enough for Frankie's footwork to take over. The difference is: Bader is not Edgar and cannot dance around on the outside for 1 straight round let alone 3.



I don't think Maynard landing has to do with speed.  He anticipated which direction Edgar would move and timed it correctly to land.  Maynard is a different fighter than Rampage.  He doesn't come forwards Rocky Balboa style and plod.  He feints, he move back sometimes and gives angles.  He also can move fast when he wants to when he decides to cut off the cage.

Rampage does none of those things...  

The closest hes come is landing that leg kick on Hamil at the end of the 1st round in their fight.  And a lot of people laughed when they saw that because of how unbelievable and unexpected it was..


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 19, 2012)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Rampage has been chasing ppl around the octagon since he fought Forrest and Keith Jardine.
> 
> He couldn't catch Forrest and lost his belt as a result.  He had problems catching Jardine, but managed to win the fight.
> 
> Fast forward years and years, hes still chasing Lyoto, JBJ, Rashad and other fighters and still plods forwards at the same slow speed not succeeding terribly at cutting off the octagon or walking ppl down.


Jardine and Forrest: used leg kicks, Bader barely throws a leg kick ever.
Bones: No one other than Machida managed to really put their hands on Jones either-- so, why hold it against Rampage?
Machida and Rashad: Both great at covering distance, Machida in particular is good at fighting on the outside and is one of the least hit fighters in MMA period. Rashad got caught by Rampage and he is way more explosive than Bader and clearly the superior athlete.



> What CMX said may have seemed extremely simple and off the cuff.  But, if you think about it, you might realize he has a very good point.
> 
> His entire career hes been chasing people with a healthy respect for his punching power and its not necessarily clear that hes gotten any better at it.


 I thought about it a lot and I think Bader is in over his head. Stylistically it's an ok fight for him; he and Rampage are sort of cut from the same clothe actually. Like I said though, Rampage does what Bader does at another level.



> I don't think Maynard landing has to do with speed.  He anticipated which direction Edgar would move and timed it correctly to land.  Maynard is a different fighter than Rampage.  He doesn't come forwards Rocky Balboa style and plod.  He feints, he move back sometimes and gives angles.  He also can move fast when he wants to when he decides to cut off the cage.
> 
> Rampage does none of those things...
> 
> The closest hes come is landing that leg kick on Hamil at the end of the 1st round in their fight.  And a lot of people laughed when they saw that because of how unbelievable and unexpected it was..


 My point though is that Bader doesn't move like Edgar, and couldn't do it for more than 3 minutes if he tried. I don't think Rampage is going to need to cut the cage off simply because I don't think Bader can run away fast enough to avoid getting caught.


----------



## Teach (Feb 19, 2012)

Rampage by powerbomb.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 20, 2012)

I'm probably the only person stoked for Zhang Tiequan and Issei Tamura.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 20, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> Jardine and Forrest: used leg kicks, Bader barely throws a leg kick ever.
> Bones: No one other than Machida managed to really put their hands on Jones either-- so, why hold it against Rampage?
> Machida and Rashad: Both great at covering distance, Machida in particular is good at fighting on the outside and is one of the least hit fighters in MMA period. Rashad got caught by Rampage and he is way more explosive than Bader and clearly the superior athlete.



I think Bader could do it without leg kicks.

JBJ may have had a point in saying Rampage's boxing coach sucks.  Rampage could have one of the highest inaccuracy rates in the UFC with his punches.  He _never_ sets up his strikes.  He's always lunging for the KO when he gets in range, its extremely predictable.  He never mixes it up.  Feints, or throws a jab to make them move so he can light them up with the right hand.  

He hits hard and has good KO power, but his striking technique and proficiency may still be in the stone age.  Maybe, a good move for him would be to train with Freddie Roach or someone else.  I don't think he has the depth to his boxing game that he should have.



Gallic Rush said:


> My point though is that Bader doesn't move like Edgar, and couldn't do it for more than 3 minutes if he tried. I don't think Rampage is going to need to cut the cage off simply because I don't think Bader can run away fast enough to avoid getting caught.



If Wanderlei can fight Rampage going backwards, I think Bader can do it, too.

Wanderlei was actually doing well in that fight, IIRC...  up to the point when he ate that left hook.

Funny thing, I'm not actually calling Bader to win the fight.  

I just won't be surprised if he pulls it. 



The Fireball Kid said:


> I'm probably the only person stoked for Zhang Tiequan and Issei Tamura.



I thought it was Zhang vs Nam Phan?  

Guess not..


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 20, 2012)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> I thought it was Zhang vs Nam Phan?
> 
> Guess not..



Phan was _rumored_ to fight him, but they got Issei Tamura from Shooto. He's 1-2 in his last 3, so I'm assuming the UFC realized they needed some local guys to fight so they got him.

He's kind of a boring wrestler type, 6-2 with 5 decisions. I can see him taking a UD if he doesn't get subbed. Never been finished, also.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 20, 2012)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> I think Bader could do it without leg kicks.


 It'll be the second time someone gets called out for baby leg kicks this year if Bader goes that route. That guy packs serious power in his punches but his kicks not so much.



> JBJ may have had a point in saying Rampage's boxing coach sucks.  Rampage could have one of the highest inaccuracy rates in the UFC with his punches.  He _never_ sets up his strikes.  He's always lunging for the KO when he gets in range, its extremely predictable.  He never mixes it up.  Feints, or throws a jab to make them move so he can light them up with the right hand.
> 
> He hits hard and has good KO power, but his striking technique and proficiency may still be in the stone age.  Maybe, a good move for him would be to train with Freddie Roach or someone else.  I don't think he has the depth to his boxing game that he should have.


 For someone that relies strictly on his punches you're right to say he needs to have a bit wider repertoire. But this is MMA and plenty of guys that come from jiu jitsu or wrestling backgrounds can't handle Rampage's approach anyways. Bader hasn't been boxing his whole life. I guess he's young enough to be improving between fights, but we'll have to see...



> If Wanderlei can fight Rampage going backwards, I think Bader can do it, too.
> 
> Wanderlei was actually doing well in that fight, IIRC...  up to the point when he ate that left hook.
> 
> ...


*shrugs* I mean at some point you can't be surprised no matter what the outcome of a fight because of the crazy shit that goes down (Barry vs. Kongo anyone?). I'm just saying Rampage has all the tools to win this fight.

I'm not taking his side or anything-- I don't care if he wins .


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 20, 2012)

Bader might employ the Condit strategy. 

It would probably work, too.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 20, 2012)

Guess we'll find out. Should be a fun night of fights anyways. I'm hoping the Japanese fighters put on a good showing and hopefully give a boost to J-MMA.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 20, 2012)

I'd be surprised if more than 40% of them win their matches. But maybe being in Japan, going up against reasonably-leveled opponents, and desperately needing to win will light a fire under their asses.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 20, 2012)

They won't be traveling across the world for the fights like they usually do, so their chances are a lot better already. I'll be rooting for all of them, regardless.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 20, 2012)

Well by that logic they will have a huge advantage since their opponents are traveling across the world.

Seems stacked.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 20, 2012)

I'm just hoping we get the Brazil effect. Every fighter from the country wins.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 20, 2012)

Well, one of them did lose on that card. But only one.

Otherwise it was an epic night for Brazil.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 20, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Well, one of them did lose on that card. But only one.
> 
> Otherwise it was an epic night for Brazil.



Funch lost last time and so did Luiz Cane the time before that. There was that DQ loss too but no one counts that.

Anyways, without Japanese stars MMA will never take off in Japan. It's kind of sad that there's no one really wowing people coming out of Japan.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 20, 2012)

That's because they're all in promotions no one watches. Kyoji Horiguchi in Shooto. 6-1, 5 wins by knockout. Karate background, trains out of Krazy Bee with Kid Yamamoto. Was Kid's sparring partner back when he was an amateur. The guy has tons of potential.

No one cares because:

A) He's Japanese, and ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) like to say "Oh, he's from Japan, he sucks"
B) Most people haven't watched any JMMA past Pride and maybe some DREAM. Shooto, DEEP and GCM Cage Force all have good fighters.
C) Anyone who isn't in the UFC only fights "cans", therefore they all suck and will never be good fighters.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 20, 2012)

To capture Japanese audiences we need one of two things: 1) Japanese superstars, 2) Bob Sapp.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 20, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> That's because they're all in promotions no one watches. Kyoji Horiguchi in Shooto. 6-1, 5 wins by knockout. Karate background, trains out of Krazy Bee with Kid Yamamoto. Was Kid's sparring partner back when he was an amateur. The guy has tons of potential.
> 
> No one cares because:
> 
> ...



The reason people think Japanese fighters suck is because when they're given the chance to step up to the plate they're consistently falling short. Hioki was supposed to be one of the best fighters out of Japan and look what happened against Roop. All their best guys get shit on by the best guys from other countries. That's kind of the opposite of what you want for building the popularity of the sport in Japan.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 20, 2012)

At least that guy won the Roop fight.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 20, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> The reason people think Japanese fighters suck is because when they're given the chance to step up to the plate they're consistently falling short. Hioki was supposed to be one of the best fighters out of Japan and look what happened against Roop. All their best guys get shit on by the best guys from other countries. That's kind of the opposite of what you want for building the popularity of the sport in Japan.



My point exactly. Hioki has ONE bad fight and every single UFC nut hugger says "he was all hype, he sucks". I bet you that 9/10 of those people who say that had never even heard of the guy before he fought Roop. The guy man handles Marlon Sandro, Lion Takeshi, Mark Hominick TWICE, yet people act like he's some bum. His performance against Roop sucked, but Roop is a hard test for anyone. Roop is a very tall featherweight and Hioki struggled with getting inside. Roop has beat Poirier and KZ, does that mean he "exposed" them?

Poirier and KZ are just starting to beat real competition and people are saying they should fight for the title, yet Hioki has consistently faced top opposition and fucks up one fight and people are calling him a bum.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 20, 2012)

I've heard of Hioki, but only on Sherdog and it could have been someone else.


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 20, 2012)

George Roop is a spoiler type of fighter. He can give a fight to anyone in the FW division.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 20, 2012)

He certainly surprised us against the Zombie, and now look at him.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 20, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> At least that guy won the Roop fight.


It was a split decision. You don't inspire confidence by barely winning fights.



The Fireball Kid said:


> My point exactly. Hioki has ONE bad fight and every single UFC nut hugger says "he was all hype, he sucks". I bet you that 9/10 of those people who say that had never even heard of the guy before he fought Roop. The guy man handles Marlon Sandro, Lion Takeshi, Mark Hominick TWICE, yet people act like he's some bum. His performance against Roop sucked, but Roop is a hard test for anyone. Roop is a very tall featherweight and Hioki struggled with getting inside. Roop has beat Poirier and KZ, does that mean he "exposed" them?
> 
> Poirier and KZ are just starting to beat real competition and people are saying they should fight for the title, yet Hioki has consistently faced top opposition and fucks up one fight and people are calling him a bum.


Just so you know, Roop never fought Poirier.

The only reason people are calling for the title shot between the Poirier/Jung match anyways is because Aldo has flattened every other challenger. What Japanese fighter has cleaned out his weight class? You need a phenom like Aldo coming out of your country if you want the sport to really explode among mainstream fans.



Violent By Design said:


> George Roop is a spoiler type of fighter. He can give a fight to anyone in the FW division.


Could he do it to Aldo?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 20, 2012)

True, but I do believe there is such a thing as UFC jitters. I think we'll learn much more in his next 2 fights or so.

If he fails to impress in those two I'm calling it.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 20, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> Just so you know, Roop never fought Poirier.
> 
> The only reason people are calling for the title shot between the Poirier/Jung match anyways is because Aldo has flattened every other challenger. What Japanese fighter has cleaned out his weight class? You need a phenom like Aldo coming out of your country if you want the sport to really explode among mainstream fans.



I feel retarded, I could have sworn he fought Poirier.

I'm aware the state of JMMA is bad, I know this. I also know that Hioki looked like shit and barely deserved to win that fight, but my point was that you can't judge a guy based on one fight.

What annoys me is that people don't give any Japanese fighter a chance. If it was a Brazilian fighter destroying Hominick and Sandro and Takeshi, people would be praising him as the next big thing.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 20, 2012)

The best fighters are Croations.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 20, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> True, but I do believe there is such a thing as UFC jitters. I think we'll learn much more in his next 2 fights or so.
> 
> If he fails to impress in those two I'm calling it.


I don't really buy that myself. You mean to tell me you're not going to be nervous other times? You still got deal with that pressure or you're going to fall flat in title fights, bad blood fights, hometown fights, etc. That's part of being a fighter, and I don't count that as being a separate issue. Mentally strong fighters make that shit work rain or shine.



The Fireball Kid said:


> I feel retarded, I could have sworn he fought Poirier.
> 
> I'm aware the state of JMMA is bad, I know this. I also know that Hioki looked like shit and barely deserved to win that fight, but my point was that you can't judge a guy based on one fight.
> 
> What annoys me is that people don't give any Japanese fighter a chance. If it was a Brazilian fighter destroying Hominick and Sandro and Takeshi, people would be praising him as the next big thing.


Maybe you were thinking of Grispi. 

Anyways, Japanese fighters have been given a lot of chances.

Kid: 2 straight losses.
Okami: lost to the champ and number 1 contender in devastating fashion-- probably the best Japanese fighter today.
Riki Fukuda: Got the shit end of a decision against Ring, but seriously if he can't dismantle someone on Ring's level he's not a title contender.
Gomi: Lost 3 of 4 UFC fights.
Sexyama: Been in some fantastic fights in the UFC, but still lost 3 of 4.
Omigawa: Lost 3 of 4 UFC fights.
Hioki: already went over him.
Mizugaki: Lost 3 of 5 fights in WEC, 1 of 3 in UFC.

If that's the best Japan has to offer it bodes very ill for J-MMA's future.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 20, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> The best fighters are Croations.



The best fighters are croutons? I'mma eat your damn croutons on my caesar salad, BEYATCH!


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 20, 2012)

As much as all of the fighters talk about how different it is fighting in the UFC as opposed to other organizations, I'm inclined to believe them. 

It's like getting nervous for a big job interview when you might not get nervous about signing up to work at McDonalds or something. There are different levels.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 20, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> For someone that relies strictly on his punches you're right to say he needs to have a bit wider repertoire. But this is MMA and plenty of guys that come from jiu jitsu or wrestling backgrounds can't handle Rampage's approach anyways. Bader hasn't been boxing his whole life. I guess he's young enough to be improving between fights, but we'll have to see...



Its not that he relies too heavily on punches.  

If one were to compare Anderson Silva's miss percentage to Rampage's...

Silva sets up his attacks.  He has his range figured out & developed to the point where he almost never misses.

Rampage doesn't set up his strikes.  He wails away when he gets in range  & hopes he connects.

There may be a fundamental difference to their approach & the way they do things.  It doesn't have to do with Rampage not throwing a lot of knees or kicks.  Its moreso that he just doesn't know how to fool and trick people into eating his punches like Silva does.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 20, 2012)

Rampage should joint he Blackzillians.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 20, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> As much as all of the fighters talk about how different it is fighting in the UFC as opposed to other organizations, I'm inclined to believe them.
> 
> It's like getting nervous for a big job interview when you might not get nervous about signing up to work at McDonalds or something. There are different levels.


Deal with the pressure or go home. Brazilians deal with the same pressure, why are they not folding?



1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Its not that he relies too heavily on punches.
> 
> If one were to compare Anderson Silva's miss percentage to Rampage's...
> 
> Silva sets up his attacks.  He has his range figured out & developed to the point where he almost never misses.


Silva uses kicks... Right at the end of the first round he fucked Okami's world up with a left high kick. I think that might have been the first big shot he landed. Let's not forget the Belfort KO either. He also hit Sonnen with a spinning back kick. The guy can do it all which means you have to look at something other than his hands. When Rampage landed that leg kick on Hamill, Hamill was probably like, "holy shit, what was that!?"



> Rampage doesn't set up his strikes.  He wails away when he gets in range  & hopes he connects.
> 
> There may be a fundamental difference to their approach & the way they do things.  It doesn't have to do with Rampage not throwing a lot of knees or kicks.  Its moreso that he just doesn't know how to fool and trick people into eating his punches like Silva does.


That seems an unreasonable comparison. Rampage doesn't have Silva's build or reflexes. You can't expect him to fight like Silva. I mean shit, most elite fighters can't fight like Silva.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 20, 2012)

Because they are high on rat urine. Or is it cat urine? 

I forget, but it's something that makes them really aggressive.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 20, 2012)

If you're talking about toxoplasmosis it's spread through ingesting cat feces or eating undercooked, contaminated meat. The cats generally get it by eating infected rodents which may be attracted to the scent of a cat's urine for reasons not entirely understood by science.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 20, 2012)

*Anime UFC 144 trailer*


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 21, 2012)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Silva didn't use kicks in the Griffin fight.


Is that supposed to mean something? Jose Aldo didn't use punches in his fight against Cub Swanson. Does that mean punches aren't an important part of his arsenal?




> Anyone could fight like Silva if they trained properly.


You can fight like Silva does, but that doesn't mean you're going to be any good at it. If it were really that easy to perfectly replicate his style everyone would be doing it.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 21, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> If you're talking about toxoplasmosis it's spread through ingesting cat feces or eating undercooked, contaminated meat. The cats generally get it by eating infected rodents which may be attracted to the scent of a cat's urine for reasons not entirely understood by science.


 Well, whatever it is, I've heard that some staggeringly high percentage of Brazilians suffer from it.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 21, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> Is that supposed to mean something? Jose Aldo didn't use punches in his fight against Cub Swanson. Does that mean punches aren't an important part of his arsenal?



It doesn't matter if Silva uses knees, kicks or punches.

Whether he throws an elbow, knee, punch or kick isn't the important thing.  A lot of fighters mix up their attack and yet remain nowhere near as successful as Silva is.

Rampage could be succesful with a boxing only style.  He just completely neglects the technical aspect of the game.

Look at round 1 against Jon Jones.  The round starts, Jones tries to get Rampage against the cage where they can clinch and hopefully wear out Rampage's arms a little to take away some of his power.

Maybe, Rampage doesn't understand there's a reason for it.  If he did he might try to separate and get away from the cage and keep his arms fresh to conserve KO power.  

Then, there's the way he froze.  He didn't know how to deal with the things JBJ were throwing at him, just like he didn't know how to deal with Forrest's leg kicks.  I would attribute that to his trainers failing.  They failed to properly prepare him for JBJ style.  He didn't train right & wasn't ready to fight JBJ.  His corner yelling at him to get inside as if it were as simple as moving forwards only shows they themselves didn't understand the problems associated with dealing with JBJ.

Its not so much a thing where spamming knees, elbows, kicks, and punches makes a person successful.

Hendo has been doing well and the only thing he has is a big right hand.  I don't see Joe Rogan criticizing him for not throwing kicks or knees.  And, that's because even if Hendo is a one trick pony, he knows how to set it up & how to time it so that it lands, whereas Rampage DOESN'T.

Its all just a big load of bs...rlly.  



Gallic Rush said:


> You can fight like Silva does, but that doesn't mean you're going to be any good at it. If it were really that easy to perfectly replicate his style everyone would be doing it.





GSP is an excellent wrestler because...

A.)  He's been wrestling since he was 4 years old.
B.)  Extensive amateur background.
C.)  He was born an awesome wrestler.  
D.)  He was average at wrestling but due to his extensive training became awesome at it.

I think the answer is 'D'.

Its the same with Anderson Silva.  He's an elite striker due to how he trains and his comprehension of the game.  

His method of striking isn't just an art, its an exact science which allows him to consistently reproduce excellent results.

The reason Rampage and other fighters can't be as accurate or consistent as Silva is majority-wise due to how they train.  Like the late, great, master says...  "boards don't hit back".  There are some differences between hitting pads or a heavy bag and trying to hit a human being.  

Silva understands human motion and timing to a high degree which allows him to make it look simple.

Rampage approaches it as if he were punching a heavy bag.  He swings for the fences and expects someone to still be there when his punch arrives.  80% of the time he misses and doesn't understand why as he never thought about it & never really learned to set up his strikes or counterpunch.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 21, 2012)

So you're saying Bader will win.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 21, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> So you're saying Bader will win.



Bader could win...  _if_ he doesn't get stuck in a guillotine.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 21, 2012)

Last I checked Rampage doesn't go for submissions.


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 21, 2012)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> GSP is an excellent wrestler because...
> 
> A.)  He's been wrestling since he was 4 years old.
> B.)  Extensive amateur background.
> ...



You know that doesn't actually counter what he said, right? It actually strengthens it.

And by the way, the answer would be C not D, or a combination of the two.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 21, 2012)

You two must be trolling me at this point. The only reason Bader got caught in that submission is because he got dropped by the one guy that has never successfully dropped anyone before in his life. Does it really look like that bad of a fight for Rampage? I mean REALLY?



1mmortal 1tachi said:


> It doesn't matter if Silva uses knees, kicks or punches.
> 
> Whether he throws an elbow, knee, punch or kick isn't the important thing.  A lot of fighters mix up their attack and yet remain nowhere near as successful as Silva is.
> 
> ...


 Listen... I don't know who can properly prepare you for Bones. Yeah Rampage got frustrated in there, but that has happened to pretty much everyone. Bader is not Jones, Rampage isn't going to have to be that strategic to beat him.



> Its not so much a thing where spamming knees, elbows, kicks, and punches makes a person successful.
> 
> Hendo has been doing well and the only thing he has is a big right hand.  I don't see Joe Rogan criticizing him for not throwing kicks or knees.  And, that's because even if Hendo is a one trick pony, he knows how to set it up & how to time it so that it lands, whereas Rampage DOESN'T.


 Kind of funny you bring up Hendo seeing as Rampage beat him. 



> GSP is an excellent wrestler because...
> 
> A.)  He's been wrestling since he was 4 years old.
> B.)  Extensive amateur background.
> ...


Then why isn't GSP striking like Anderson or Anderson wrestling like GSP? GSP is just built better for wrestling, and Silva is built better for striking. They took advantage of their natural gifts by training their asses off, but to pretend anyone can just train harder/smarter and achieve the same results completely contradicts the uniqueness of a GSP or Anderson Silva.



> His method of striking isn't just an art, its an exact science which allows him to consistently reproduce excellent results.
> 
> The reason Rampage and other fighters can't be as accurate or consistent as Silva is majority-wise due to how they train.  Like the late, great, master says...  "boards don't hit back".  There are some differences between hitting pads or a heavy bag and trying to hit a human being.
> 
> ...


If you're trying to imply that Rampage doesn't spar people and just hits the heavy bag you really are trolling me. If that's not what you're saying I really don't know what to make of that.

We all know Rampage has slacked off during training from time to time, and probably over the years that's limited his potential quite a bit, but again, what I'm saying is that the tools that Rampage DOES have are more than enough to moosh Bader's face into the canvas come fight night.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 21, 2012)

I do hope Rampage pulls off the upset victory.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 21, 2012)

Bitch, I'll fucking kill you.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 21, 2012)

Phallic Rush.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 21, 2012)

My eyes are up here, CM.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 21, 2012)

You're like one of those annoying girls who post pictures of their tits on Facebook and have a caption that says, "Eyes up boys".


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 21, 2012)

Girls that post pictures of their tits are annoying? What are you, gay?






Not that there's anything wrong with that.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 21, 2012)

No, them posting that caption is annoying.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 21, 2012)

Violent By Design said:


> You know that doesn't actually counter what he said, right? It actually strengthens it.
> 
> And by the way, the answer would be C not D, or a combination of the two.



Its D.





Gallic Rush said:


> You two must be trolling me at this point. The only reason Bader got caught in that submission is because he got dropped by the one guy that has never successfully dropped anyone before in his life. Does it really look like that bad of a fight for Rampage? I mean REALLY?







Gallic Rush said:


> Listen... I don't know who can properly prepare you for Bones. Yeah Rampage got frustrated in there, but that has happened to pretty much everyone. Bader is not Jones, Rampage isn't going to have to be that strategic to beat him.



Well, if they're pros...  there must be a massive dearth of quality trainers at the moment.  



Gallic Rush said:


> Kind of funny you bring up Hendo seeing as Rampage beat him.



Hendo's only real weapon is the right hand.  He lands it, he's successful with it & doesn't necessarily need leg kicks, elbows or knees.

Where's Joe Rogan and his: "if only Hendo would throw more leg kicks"?



Gallic Rush said:


> Then why isn't GSP striking like Anderson or Anderson wrestling like GSP? GSP is just built better for wrestling, and Silva is built better for striking. They took advantage of their natural gifts by training their asses off, but to pretend anyone can just train harder/smarter and achieve the same results completely contradicts the uniqueness of a GSP or Anderson Silva.



Freddie Roach doesn't teach Anderson Silva level striking.  



Gallic Rush said:


> If you're trying to imply that Rampage doesn't spar people and just hits the heavy bag you really are trolling me. If that's not what you're saying I really don't know what to make of that.



He doesn't set up his strikes in such a way as to allow himself to land consistently.

His approach is like someone who thinks they can hit people the way they hit a heavy bag.  



Gallic Rush said:


> We all know Rampage has slacked off during training from time to time, and probably over the years that's limited his potential quite a bit, but again, what I'm saying is that the tools that Rampage DOES have are more than enough to moosh Bader's face into the canvas come fight night.



Heh heh.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 21, 2012)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Hendo's only real weapon is the right hand.  He lands it, he's successful with it & doesn't necessarily need leg kicks, elbows or knees.


 Ok, well evidently against Rampage he wasn't able to land it and Rampage was doing pretty well holding his own. If Bader proves to be even half the fighter Hendo was/is on the feet I will be thoroughly impressed by that leap in skill level.



> Where's Joe Rogan and his: "if only Hendo would throw more leg kicks"?


Joe Rogan's opinion is completely irrelevant to this. That whole interview was blown way out of proportion too.



> He doesn't set up his strikes in such a way as to allow himself to land consistently.
> 
> His approach is like someone who thinks they can hit people the way they hit a heavy bag.


Eh, I don't know to what extent a guy like Rampage can really set up his strikes. But again, that tends to be a little more esoteric, and Bader is not an elite boxer/kickboxer/striker-of-any-kind. I think if Rampage sees an opening and just throws a hook he'll have a good enough chance of landing against someone of Bader's caliber.

Anyways, here's some insight into Rampage's mindset right now, it's pretty interesting:[YOUTUBE]FvhOjK20pFE[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 22, 2012)

Rampage is just being Rampage.

He's going to lose, too.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 22, 2012)

I could care less about Page/Bader.

I would think people would be wondering more about the outcome of Hunt/Kongo.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 22, 2012)

How much less? 

I hope Hunt gets the vicious knockout. But, seriously, he hasn't knocked anybody out worth a damn since he got into MMA.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 22, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> I could care less about Page/Bader.
> 
> I would think people would be wondering more about the outcome of Hunt/Kongo.



Other than the Barry fight Kongo hasn't had an exciting fight for a long time. It could be interesting, or it could be boring as fuck with Kongo refusing to engage for a vast majority of the fight.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 23, 2012)

Cup Chieck Kongo is going to get knocked out.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 23, 2012)

Hopefully Hunt-Kongo isn't as underwhelming as I'm feeling it's going to be.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 23, 2012)

It's going to be badass.

Even if Kongo tries to Mitrione Hunt, Hunt will have none of it.


----------



## Matariki (Feb 23, 2012)

lovely


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 23, 2012)

I see someone has visited Sherdog in the last couple days.


----------



## Heavenly King (Feb 23, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> How so? I'm stating facts. JDS is a better boxer, has better TD defense, better cardio (Most of Overeem's biggest losses were because he gassed), is the more agile fighter of the two and I think his footwork is better.
> 
> I think it's gonna be a pretty even fight early on, but I think Overeem will wilt later on and JDS is gonna capitalize on that and light him up.




I don't think he's a better boxer at all. better tdk defense, i don't see this at all. what you're going off is old reem. all the fights i seen him as a heavy weight he hasn't gas at all even in his k-1 matches he didn't show gas effects at all.

it is going to be a good fight i do say as well.




CrazyMoronX said:


> Cup Chieck Kongo is going to get knocked out.



check better take him down and go for the sub. if hunt hit him he's going to not come back like he did perry.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 23, 2012)

JDS has better boxing.

Overeem's HW cardio is still mysterious despite going 5 rounds with Werdum.


----------



## Matariki (Feb 23, 2012)

Overeem might have a big surprise for all the doubters


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 23, 2012)

I think Overeem has a pretty good chance, but I also like JDS for this one. He's gonna knock Overeem out.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 23, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> JDS has better boxing.
> 
> Overeem's HW cardio is still mysterious despite going 5 rounds with Werdum.



Hold on, that was 3 rounds wasn't it?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 23, 2012)

Was it?

I thought it was a title fight.

But it was Strikefarce, so...


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 23, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Was it?
> 
> I thought it was a title fight.
> 
> But it was Strikefarce, so...


No, it was part of the whole HW grand prix thing. Remember how he had a toe injury or whatever and they were all like "you're not going to be in our tournament anymore." And Overeem was like, "fuck you, bitches, I'm going to the UFC."


----------



## Matariki (Feb 23, 2012)

The grand prix final is pointless. They should bring Barnett into the UFC now...


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 24, 2012)

Heavenly King said:


> I don't think he's a better boxer at all. better tdk defense, i don't see this at all. what you're going off is old reem. all the fights i seen him as a heavy weight he hasn't gas at all even in his k-1 matches he didn't show gas effects at all.
> 
> it is going to be a good fight i do say as well.
> 
> ...



Are you kidding me? JDS is the best boxer in the HW division, bar none. WAY better TDD, the guy was stopping takedowns from Shane Carwin. Overeem stopped a TD from Lesnar, but name one other high level wrestler he's fought. JDS has a great gas tank, and the thing is, Overeem since going to the HW division has generally finished the fights early. How can we go off his current fights if he doesn't go to decision that often? At LHW he would gas quickly and get finished.

JDS is the better boxer with better cardio and TDD, but Overeem is easily the better kickboxer with better clinch work and ground skills.

Cheick's chin isn't that bad, either. Barry hits very hard and he came back and knocked him out. He wasn't even really wobbled afterwards.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 24, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> No, it was part of the whole HW grand prix thing. Remember how he had a toe injury or whatever and they were all like "you're not going to be in our tournament anymore." And Overeem was like, "fuck you, bitches, I'm going to the UFC."


 It is all coming back to me now.

Good old Strikefarce HW Tournament. 


Seiko said:


> The grand prix final is pointless. They should bring Barnett into the UFC now...


 I saw the whole thing as something of a joke when it started *over a year ago.*


----------



## Sine (Feb 25, 2012)

War Edgar


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 25, 2012)

Fuck, Rampage came in over weight. 5 lbs over... Said he had an injury during camp that he doesn't want to disclose. Probably lower body since it interfered with his weight cut. 

Well, that's 20% of Quinton's purse for Bader, and perhaps the one shot Bader would ever have had to beat Rampage.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 25, 2012)

I have Bader winning. I honestly don't care who wins, but still.


----------



## Teach (Feb 25, 2012)

Cup Cheick will feel the train tonight.


----------



## martryn (Feb 25, 2012)

Can't watch anymore.  First fight of the prelims and the judges are already fucking retarded.  Fuck it.  Might watch some highlights later.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 25, 2012)

You're missing some great shit because the judges gonna judge?

Maaaaaaan, I feel sorry for you.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 25, 2012)

Hioki looked great in that first round. Really happy he won it.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 25, 2012)

Damn, what a fight Okami-Boetsch was. 

In fact, what a night of fights in general. I feel sorry for anyone not watching this shit.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 25, 2012)

Rogan screamed like a little girl in that fight, lol.

Come on Shields.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 25, 2012)

Hioki made Bart eat his words. So glad, go back to fighting WEC rejects Palaszewski.

Stoked Tamura got the KO against Zhang. Mizugaki got robbed. GOMI GOT THE KO!!!! Can't believe J-Lau got KOed. Bummed Okami lost. Akiyama won more rounds, I think he should have won.

Have been watching the fights/following them via twitter since I've been out.

Anyways, home now. Let's go HUNT!!


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 25, 2012)

WOW. Hunt actually did it. He fucking knocked out Kongo.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 25, 2012)

Hunt's postfight interview was like, "yeah, whatever, I don't really give a darn about winning."


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 25, 2012)

Hunt should fight Shane Carwin.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 25, 2012)

PRIDE theme! This is awesome!


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 25, 2012)

I predicted Bader, but I'm almost rooting for Page. Hearing the PRIDE theme gives me the feeling he's gonna find the inspiration and KO Bader.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 25, 2012)

Peed myself a bit when I heard Rampage's walkout song.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 25, 2012)

OH MY FUCKING GOD


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 26, 2012)

Rampage is just too tired. Damn.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 26, 2012)

Damn, I wanted Rampage to get this one.

Yeah, he should consider retirement.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 26, 2012)

*shrugs* He was tired 3 minutes into the first round-- you could see it in his breathing. I dunno what he did to try to cut that weight last minute, but it fucked him up.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 26, 2012)

I think he needs to retire. He just doesn't have the fire he used to.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 26, 2012)

He apparently injured himself, probably an ankle injury since it interfered with his roadwork, but it healed quickly. 

I honestly think if he had been in the physical condition he was for the Jones fight he would have been fine. Oh well, it was his choice to take the fight on an injury, and that's something he'll have to live with.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 26, 2012)

I haven't seen such a confident title contender since Bones before Shogun.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 26, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> He apparently injured himself, probably an ankle injury since it interfered with his roadwork, but it healed quickly.
> 
> I honestly think if he had been in the physical condition he was for the Jones fight he would have been fine. Oh well, it was his choice to take the fight on an injury, and that's something he'll have to live with.



Bader is the better fighter. His wrestling is better and his striking is a lot more versatile. The key to beating Page is to avoid the big head shots and land leg kicks.


----------



## eHav (Feb 26, 2012)

frankie had nothing on benson


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 26, 2012)

Very competitive fight, but Bendo edged it out!


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 26, 2012)

Great win for Benson, really happy for him. Four WEC guys are UFC champions right now.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 26, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Bader is the better fighter. His wrestling is better and his striking is a lot more versatile. The key to beating Page is to avoid the big head shots and land leg kicks.



I don't think Bader was out landing Rampage-- besides that he's hardly much more versatile than Rampage. He might have thrown a few more leg kicks but does that really count?

I think conditioning was obviously Rampage's problem this fight. Well, it's been a perennial problem for him anyways. Whatever, time to retire.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 26, 2012)

GOD DAMN! What a knockout.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Feb 26, 2012)

Kid should contemplate retirement too. He just doesn't have it anymore.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 26, 2012)

Not a great night for Japanese fighters, honestly. The only one that fared well against a non-Asian fighter is Hioki.

Sort of takes a shit on the theory that the jet-lag is what makes Japanese fighters mediocre in the the US.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 26, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> Not a great night for Japanese fighters, honestly. The only one that fared well against a non-Asian fighter is Hioki.
> 
> Sort of takes a shit on the theory that the jet-lag is what makes Japanese fighters mediocre in the the US.



Fukuda won his fight. And Mizugaki obviously won that fight against Cariaso.

In all honesty, I have no idea what it is. There are a ton of things that could factor into it.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 26, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Fukuda won his fight. And Mizugaki obviously won that fight against Cariaso.
> 
> In all honesty, I have no idea what it is. There are a ton of things that could factor into it.



Fukuda looked alright. His opponent Cantwell is like 5 and 1 in the UFC or something.

EDIT: The Fukuda fight makes Cantwell's recent record a 5 fight lose streak. Ortiz would be proud.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 26, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Cup Chieck Kongo is going to get knocked out.





CrazyMoronX said:


> Bader might employ the Condit strategy.
> 
> It would probably work, too.



CMX, you're a genius.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 26, 2012)

Fukuda and Mizugaki aren't championship caliber, I'm not saying they are. A lot of Japanese MMA fighters aren't, but neither are tons of other fighters from other nationalities.

Sigh, KID needs to retire though. Maybe even Gomi, as well. A prime Gomi would have never had that much trouble with a mid-tier grappler like Mitsuoka.

However, Issei Tamura I think has a future at featherweight. A dominant wrestler with heavy hands? Formula for success.

EDIT: I hope Mark Hunt keeps this win streak going and gets a title shot.


----------



## blackhound89 (Feb 26, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> Not a great night for Japanese fighters, honestly. The only one that fared well against a non-Asian fighter is Hioki.
> 
> Sort of takes a shit on the theory that the jet-lag is what makes Japanese fighters mediocre in the the US.



one interesting thing.The japanese people like everyone , they cheer for you even if you are american,brazilian,japanese,devil,god,whatever. That being said , they dont put any pressure on american fighters, on USA on the other hand they put a lot of pressure(in my opnion).But that means shit since the japanese couldnt perform all that well


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 26, 2012)

blackhound89 said:


> one interesting thing.The japanese people like everyone , they cheer for you even if you are american,brazilian,japanese,devil,god,whatever. That being said , they dont put any pressure on american fighters, on USA on the other hand they put a lot of pressure(in my opnion).But that means shit since the japanese couldnt perform all that well


When Japanese fighters consistently do poorly you struggle to find an explanation other than they're just not that good. They've now done poorly all over the world including their home country. What excuses are left?


----------



## Ippy (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm happy for Benson.  He's only improved since his loss to Showtime. I can't wait for a rematch.  CAN I GET AN AMEN?

I'm also excited to see more of Hioki.

Bader beating Rampage was no surprise.  The return of Slampage WAS, however.





Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Great win for Benson, really happy for him. Four WEC guys are UFC champions right now.


You couldn't tell anyone before the merger, but the WEC guys are legit, and always were.

Pre-merger, Aldo was teeing off on cans, Bendo was champ in a weak LW division and wouldn't cut it in the UFC, and Condit would get destroyed by anyone in the top 10 of UFC WW's.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 26, 2012)

WEC clearly had the best featherweights-- I don't think that many people were seriously disputing Aldo's FW rank, I think people just didn't care.

The higher weight classes definitely got shit on, but if you think about it only the best of the best of the WEC really hung in there. A lot of the WEC guys just couldn't hack it.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 26, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> When Japanese fighters consistently do poorly you struggle to find an explanation other than they're just not that good. They've now done poorly all over the world including their home country. What excuses are left?



The gyms aren't up to par? Physically they're less imposing? It could even be the fact they're pressured due to the stigma they have as being "over hyped"?

I dunno. I will say this, though... Organizations like DEEP have most big name ones like SF and UFC beat in terms of exciting fights. May not be the best fighters, but guys like Yoshiro Maeda consistently put on awesome fights.

Speaking of exciting Asian fighters, Doo Ho Choi... he will be the guy to dethrone Aldo. If they ever find him... :S


----------



## Teach (Feb 27, 2012)

Mizugaki robbery was hilarious. Never seen such a obvious robbery. Frankie Edgar exposed. P4P top 3 MY FUCKING ASS DANA.



Teach said:


> Cup Cheick will feel the train tonight.



K1 legend Hunto destroyed cup Cheick. It's hilarious some guys at Sherdog really thought Kongo had a chance in stand-up with Hunt.


----------



## Heavenly King (Feb 27, 2012)

I am glad hunt showed the ufc world the power of k-1


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 27, 2012)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> CMX, you're a genius.


Don't forget, I also called KID Yamamato losing--but that's like saying it will be warm tomorrow and you live in Hawaii and it's fucking June.

I think Frankie won the fight.  I'm bitter.


Heavenly King said:


> I am glad hunt showed the ufc world the power of k-1


It's funny how people say Overeem is the most decorated kickboxer in MMA because he won the K-1 Grand Prix.


Well, guess what? There's this guy named Mark Hunt who did the same thing and has three times as many K-1 fights (and wins).


----------



## Ippy (Feb 27, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Don't forget, I also called KID Yamamato losing--but that's like saying it will be warm tomorrow and you live in Hawaii and it's fucking June.
> 
> I think Frankie won the fight.  I'm bitter.
> 
> ...



I don't hear people calling him the most decorated kickboxer in MMA.

I DO hear people saying he is the best kickboxer in MMA, which is hard to argue against.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 27, 2012)

I've heard it said a few times he's the most decorated.

And the best striker, but specifically the most decorated as well. Which is hilarious every time I hear it.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 27, 2012)

I don't understand how the "best kickboxer in MMA" can have so many KO losses...


----------



## Ippy (Feb 27, 2012)

Maybe we're listening to different people, CMX.

I do agree that it's ludicrous to say he's the most "decorated", though.





The Fireball Kid said:


> I don't understand how the "best kickboxer in MMA" can have so many KO losses...


Because this isn't 2007 anymore.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 27, 2012)

He's not the same fighter anymore.

His chin has literally gotten bigger (stronger?).


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 27, 2012)

Still bitter Okami lost when he looked so good. God dammit, I can't even watch the fight again.

Hope he can rebound against a guy like Maia.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 27, 2012)

That was a pretty crazy fight. Okami was baby-shaking Boestch.


----------



## Vice (Feb 27, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I think Frankie won the fight.  I'm bitter.



What            ?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 27, 2012)

Yeah, that's right, you heard.

Frankie Edgar, baby.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 27, 2012)

It was a close fight, but I think Bendo won it. Rocked Frankie with the up kick, landed the harder shots, PLUS he straight up out struck Edgar in significant strikes, head shots, body shots, and total strikes. He was the only one to attempt any submissions, and nearly got him with one of em.

It was close, but I had Bendo.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 27, 2012)

I was probably being biased, honestly. But Frankie did land more strikes and got them takedowns.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 27, 2012)

I don't score fights because I find it pointless, but I think Edgar would have had better success if there were more rounds. I seriously think all those shots to the chin of Henderson were starting to catch up with him, and somehow Edgar recovered from that up-kick. Guy is a freak.

In my round by round breakdown of the fight I went over everything.


----------



## noonealive (Feb 27, 2012)

Yeah i don't know.... i thought Franky was being more of the aggressor. He was the one actually doing something. Bendo had 1 lucky shot, and it seemed like the judges was basing Bendo's performance of that one shot. I think Franky did more than enough to keep the belt, but whatever, hopefully theres a rematch.


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 27, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I was probably being biased, honestly. But Frankie did land more strikes and


Perhaps he landed more, but he certainly did not hurt Hendo as much as Hendo hurt him. 





> got them takedowns.


 Hendo had more dominant position anyway, and who cares, frankie did nothing with his takedown.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 27, 2012)

noonealive said:


> Yeah i don't know.... i thought Franky was being more of the aggressor. He was the one actually doing something. Bendo had 1 lucky shot, and it seemed like the judges was basing Bendo's performance of that one shot. I think Franky did more than enough to keep the belt, but whatever, hopefully theres a rematch.



No offense, but did you even watch the fight? Ben Henderson out landed Edgar. He landed more significant strikes, more head shots, more body shots and the most total strikes. Edgar only out struck him in terms of leg kicks. And how the hell was he the aggressor? Bendo was walking him down the entire fight. In that entire fight, Bendo landed the harder shots, just look at Edgar's face. He went for more submissions, had more dominant positions... If you don't believe me, go look at fight metric.

Frankie lost, c'mon.



			
				CrazyMoronX said:
			
		

> I was probably being biased, honestly. But *Frankie did land more strikes* and got them takedowns.



Significant strikes: Edgar - 68 Bendo - *87*
Total strikes: Edgar - 81 Bendo - *100*
Head shots: Edgar - 40 Bendo - *59*
Body shots: Edgar - 23 Bendo - *28*
Leg shots: Edgar - *18* Bendo - 13

Frankie had more takedowns, but compare that to the fact Bendo out struck Frankie, damaged him pretty badly, nearly submitted him, was the aggressor and had more dominant positions. It's not question Bendo won.


----------



## noonealive (Feb 28, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> No offense, but did you even watch the fight? Ben Henderson out landed Edgar. He landed more significant strikes, more head shots, more body shots and the most total strikes. Edgar only out struck him in terms of leg kicks. And how the hell was he the aggressor? Bendo was walking him down the entire fight. In that entire fight, Bendo landed the harder shots, just look at Edgar's face. He went for more submissions, had more dominant positions... If you don't believe me, go look at fight metric.
> 
> Frankie lost, c'mon.
> 
> ...



Yes i watched the whole thing.  I'm saying Franky did enough to maintain his belt. Don't get me wrong Bendo did great, it's just that it wasn't satisfactory for me. Doesn't matter in the end Bendo won. Would it have been controversial if Franky ended up winning?


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 28, 2012)

noonealive said:


> Would it have been controversial if Franky ended up winning?



Yes, probably.


----------



## noonealive (Feb 28, 2012)

Violent By Design said:


> Yes, probably.



Yeah looking from the apparent stats i guess it would have. .....Rematch!!! lol


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 28, 2012)

noonealive said:


> Yes i watched the whole thing.  I'm saying Franky did enough to maintain his belt. Don't get me wrong Bendo did great, it's just that it wasn't satisfactory for me. Doesn't matter in the end Bendo won. Would it have been controversial if Franky ended up winning?



So you're saying Frankie should have kept his belt because Bendo didn't beat him worse? It was a close fight, not dominant, but clearly Ben Henderson was the winner.


----------



## noonealive (Feb 28, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> So you're saying Frankie should have kept his belt because Bendo didn't beat him worse? It was a close fight, not dominant, but clearly Ben Henderson was the winner.



 Franky wouldn't have got beaten worse if the rounds continued. Early in the rounds Bendo got a good hit on franky's eye and his nose, and Franky still didn't look like he was getting weaker. Bendo just happen to play the right cards. He fought a good fight. That's all i can say. =[]


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 28, 2012)

noonealive said:


> Franky wouldn't have got beaten worse if the rounds continued. Early in the rounds Bendo got a good hit on franky's eye and his nose, and Franky still didn't look like he was getting weaker. Bendo just happen to play the right cards. He fought a good fight. That's all i can say. =[]



The excuses people will make for fighters... Sure, Ben might've lost a bit of steam towards the end but it was after he had spent the fight bloodying Edgar. Like I said, it wasn't a beating or anything, but Henderson clearly did enough to win the fight.


----------



## noonealive (Feb 28, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> The excuses people will make for fighters... Sure, Ben might've lost a bit of steam towards the end but it was after he had spent the fight bloodying Edgar. Like I said, it wasn't a beating or anything, but Henderson clearly did enough to win the fight.



 After Edgar got his eye and nose fucked up... Bendo had the advantage throughout the whole fight.....I'm not making any excuses. Bendo looked just as tired or even more than Edgar, so i don't think Edgar would have gotten beaten worse. After reading your earlier posts, yes i agree Bendo won, not dominantly like you said. =[]


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 28, 2012)

You guys are making up numbers against Frankie Edgar, just because he's short.


----------



## Heavenly King (Feb 28, 2012)

I got a question. how many of you do train in mma or kick boxing?

That hype


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 28, 2012)

Sometimes I wrestle with my nephews and put them in submissions.


That's the extent of my MMA training.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 28, 2012)

I want to straight training BJJ at the academy near my house, but my money situation sucks.


----------



## Heavenly King (Feb 28, 2012)

I trained more then 10 years in grappling ( which i didn't really like ). Now I just train in Khmer Kick Boxing. I still learn some mores here and their in mma.. ( I hate grappling lol )


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 28, 2012)

Heavenly King said:


> I got a question. how many of you do train in mma or kick boxing?



I do jiu jitsu and kick boxing. Never done grappling with strikes though, which is supposed to feel way different.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 28, 2012)

I would train if I had more money and free time.


But both are in limited supply.


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 28, 2012)

I used to train in MMA, but after a while just went to kickboxing classes. If I start training again I'll likely just do either boxing or just kickboxing since it is cheap.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 28, 2012)

Yeah, I would like to train in boxing, but there aren't any boxing gyms around here except that franchise for women bullshit.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm stocky. BJJ and wrestling would be good for me, I've got a strong upper body. I wanna do MMA but money sucks so I'm just trying to get some good cash flow so I can start training BJJ with a gi.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 28, 2012)

Sign up on the Gracie Acadamey online.


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 28, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> I'm stocky. BJJ and wrestling would be good for me, I've got a strong upper body. I wanna do MMA but money sucks so I'm just trying to get some good cash flow so I can start training BJJ with a gi.



BJJ is not much cheaper than MMA if at all, at least around where I live.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 28, 2012)

Violent By Design said:


> BJJ is not much cheaper than MMA if at all, at least around where I live.



There's no MMA gyms near where I live. I have a BJJ/muay thai academy near me, which is about $80 a month for either BJJ or muay thai. For both it's $100. Plus, $130 for a gi, and for muay thai I'd need to by head gear, a cup, gloves, shorts, etc...

Besides, I like the people there. The people there are more my type. The MMA gym in my city is apparently Tapout tough guy central. Apparently Amir Sodallah trained there, though.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 28, 2012)

Cheapest BJJ around here is $200 or more.


----------



## noonealive (Feb 28, 2012)

I personelly prefer boxing fundementals when it comes to hand to hand combat, but when it comes to MMA learning how to Kick is just as important. BJJ is necessary to learn since you can get an idea of how submissions work. In all MMA is a lot of work. It's no joke. 

Anyways a bit off topic, I thought the Mark Hunt interview was the highlight of the day. I wonder who he's gonna face next.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 28, 2012)

Mark Hunt. Man of few words. Owner of many jelly rolls.



Apocalyptic fighter.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 28, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Cheapest BJJ around here is $200 or more.



Jeeeeeeeeeessssus.

That's what Marcelo Garcia's academy costs a month.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 28, 2012)

Seriously?

I looked at the instructors, and one gym was lead by a purple belt.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Feb 28, 2012)

There are not many people that could justifiably ask for 200 a month...

I'm amazed you can't find any place cheaper than that. Real estate must be expensive as fuck where you live.


----------



## noonealive (Feb 28, 2012)

I thought Kongo was gonna do some damage...  i was wrong haha. Mark looked like he barely tapped him and Kongo was dazed....Samoan's are scary... lol.... After the bout Mark cracked me up, it looked like he didn't give a shit that he won.. funny guy..


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 29, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> There are not many people that could justifiably ask for 200 a month...
> 
> I'm amazed you can't find any place cheaper than that. Real estate must be expensive as fuck where you live.


 They have one bedroom condos listed, proudly, as "in the low 200s".


----------



## martryn (Feb 29, 2012)

I bought a 3 bedroom, 2.5 bath, 2100 square foot condo in Fayetteville, AR for $110,000.  What thread am I in?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 29, 2012)

"Low 200s".


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 29, 2012)

Stoked for the flyweight tourney 

Also, Kampmann and Alves will rule too.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 29, 2012)

I'm not all that excited. 

I might watch the highlights on Monday or something, but I ain't driving 40 miles to go see the show.


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 29, 2012)

where the hell do you live cmx?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 29, 2012)

I live in Littleton. 


My parents--which is where I drive sometimes to steal Internet and watch UFC on television--live 40 miles away from me.


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 29, 2012)

you really cant go some where closer X.X?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 29, 2012)

Not really. I can go to this one bar, but even that's about 15 miles away.


----------



## eHav (Feb 29, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS4bGO5ndVs&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]
i saw this a while ago, thought this was the only place where people would even know who tito is so they could have a little laugh


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Feb 29, 2012)

You can't stream it online?


----------



## Violent by Design (Feb 29, 2012)

CMX doesn't have internet at home.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 29, 2012)

I used to do that, when I had Internets. But then I got fucked like a teenager at the prom.


----------



## martryn (Mar 1, 2012)

CMX, I totally gave you the opportunity to live with us.  What times we could have had.  You kept turning us down.  Now my brother moved into our spare bedroom.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 1, 2012)

Well we live and we learn. In hindsight, I could probably own my own place down there by now, have a nice job, good home theatre, dozens of women to have sex with, a collection of vintage cars...


But I fucked up.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 1, 2012)

How do you post on there then?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 1, 2012)

A little something called corporate Internet. 


Of course I can only post between regular business hours.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Mar 1, 2012)

Get back to work, grunt.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 1, 2012)

Go back to porn, Phallic Rush.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Mar 1, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Go back to porn, Phallic Rush.



Was going to post some porn, nearly forgot this forum is all kiddies and you can't do that.

[Insert homo pic here, no pun intended, pause no homo]



EDIT: Last minute breakdown of the flyweight tournament.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 2, 2012)

Mighty Mouse gonna win.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Mar 2, 2012)

Probably. Can't see him beating Benavidez though.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 2, 2012)

He'll outhustle him with his giant ears. Don't worry about it.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Mar 3, 2012)

So, judges score the Mighty Mouse - Uncle Creepy fight a draw, commissioner fucks up and misreads the cards somehow, the decision gets announced as a split decision for Mighty Mouse. Should have been a 4th round due to the UFC's new rule, but there wasn't. Fucking unbelievable.


----------



## Heavenly King (Mar 3, 2012)

Teach said:


> Mizugaki robbery was hilarious. Never seen such a obvious robbery. Frankie Edgar exposed. P4P top 3 MY FUCKING ASS DANA.
> 
> 
> 
> K1 legend Hunto destroyed cup Cheick. It's hilarious some guys at Sherdog really thought Kongo had a chance in stand-up with Hunt.



Anyone who knows who Mark Hunt is would tell you that he's going to destroy glass jaw Kongo



CrazyMoronX said:


> Don't forget, I also called KID Yamamato losing--but that's like saying it will be warm tomorrow and you live in Hawaii and it's fucking June.
> 
> I think Frankie won the fight.  I'm bitter.
> 
> ...




People always over hyping issh all the time. I bet none of them watched any k-1 grand prix.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Mar 4, 2012)

Gyad damn Rhonda Rousey is an amazing grappler. Tate's arm got fucked five ways from Sunday. Other than Cyborg-Carano that's gotta be the best women's mma fight I've ever seen.


----------



## Ippy (Mar 4, 2012)

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

I wasn't a particular fan of either fighter (Tate was talking that shit about Faber's undeserved title shots, which is true, but he was a teammate), but I really didn't want Rousey to talk her way to a belt.  I felt she needed at least a couple more wins before she  got the shot.

Ah well.  

Where's my Coenen?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, evidently not since Rousey just finished the champ in the first round.

Kinda reminds me of people saying Silva got a premature title shot even after he destroyed Rich.


----------



## Ippy (Mar 4, 2012)

You're missing the point.  

My trepidation has nothing to do with skill or the challenger's ability to beat the champ, but the where on the totem pole they are in relation to other fighters.

For instance, Pettis probably has the best shot at beating Bendo, but the Diaz/Miller winner is likely going to get the first crack at him (despite Bendo already whooped Miller's ass and Diaz's greatest strength will likely have no effect on Gumby), and I understand that completely.


----------



## Mori` (Mar 4, 2012)

For some reason you seem to think the SF Womens MMA divisions have anywhere near enough depth for that lol.

Ronda by (brutal brutal) armbar <3


----------



## Gallic Rush (Mar 4, 2012)

Wibbly Wobbly said:


> You're missing the point.
> 
> My trepidation has nothing to do with skill or the challenger's ability to beat the champ, but the where on the totem pole they are in relation to other fighters.
> 
> For instance, Pettis probably has the best shot at beating Bendo, but the Diaz/Miller winner is likely going to get the first crack at him (despite Bendo already whooped Miller's ass and Diaz's greatest strength will likely have no effect on Gumby), and I understand that completely.



I am pretty sure they are going to give Pettis the title shot. It sounded that way from the post fight presser. Anyways, like Mori said there's too little depth in women's MMA for all that. Freakshows (i.e. one-sided beatdowns) are par for the course.


----------



## Ippy (Mar 4, 2012)

I concede.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 5, 2012)

Can't stand Rousey.

Misaki beat the crap out of Daley, though. I love it. Poor little Daley was so gun shy he turned into a wrestler. People always complained about his lack of it and he pretty much takes down Misaki at every turn. 

Hilarious, really. I guess any "striker" can get turned into a LnP'er after they get touched on the jaw a few times by the Grabaka Hitman


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 5, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> So, judges score the Mighty Mouse - Uncle Creepy fight a draw, commissioner fucks up and misreads the cards somehow, the decision gets announced as a split decision for Mighty Mouse. Should have been a 4th round due to the UFC's new rule, but there wasn't. Fucking unbelievable.


 I like that I was half right with Mighty Mouse and right about Kampman beating Alves.

I didn't get to see any of the fights though. Maybe at lunch today I'll be able to. 


Heavenly King said:


> Anyone who knows who Mark Hunt is would tell you that he's going to destroy glass jaw Kongo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I watched his Grand Prix run. Not entirely impressed. But Overeem has some seriously powerful knees and punches, I can't take that away from him.

Still, gotta side with JDS.


I also missed the women's fights.  I gotta watch that shit up, too. DAMN YOU LACK OF INTERNET!!


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 5, 2012)

Kampmann/Alves was pretty boring til the end.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 5, 2012)

Yeah, I watched that at lunch.

Alves might have won that fight if it weren't for going for a fucking takedown at the last minute.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Mar 5, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Kampmann/Alves was pretty boring til the end.



Hard to watch WWs go at it after watching 2 flyweight fights. Fight seems slow as hell.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 5, 2012)

Hard to watch Rousey vs Tate and focus on the fight instead of all that ass.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 5, 2012)

LOL at people saying flyweights "don't have power", seeing as a flyweight earned KO of the night.

Te Huna looked awesome, too. He's deff underrated in the UFC.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 5, 2012)

They don't have as much power as, say, every single other class above them.


That's not to say they can't knock each other out if they get caught right on the button.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 5, 2012)

Anyone can knock out anyone. I'd rather see two 125 pounders going at it than two HW's gassing after a round.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 5, 2012)

I'd rather see two HW's going at it than two 125-pounders gassing out after a round.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 5, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I'd rather see two HW's going at it than two 125-pounders gassing out after a round.



 why you...


----------



## zapman (Mar 6, 2012)

crowd was super pissed from the wrong decision in the unclecreepy fight, u couldn't even here mightmouse talk over the booes.


dat armbar from Rousey was sick.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 6, 2012)

zapman said:


> crowd was super pissed from the wrong decision in the unclecreepy fight, u couldn't even here mightmouse talk over the booes.
> 
> 
> dat armbar from Rousey was sick.



Shows how stupid a crowd is if they think a guy won because he scored a 10-8 round after getting out struck for the first 2 rounds.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 6, 2012)

Rhonda seems like the real deal. 

I'm starting to not like her though.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 6, 2012)

I really dislike her. I think people with her attitude are bad for the sport.

People say GSP is ruining the sport, but the guy is respectful and shows sportsmanship. The sport will never be mainstream with people breaking other people's arms and then saying they don't care, be it Frank Mir or Ronda Rousey.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 6, 2012)

Well Rhonda didn't break Tate's arm to be fair. But I don't like her anyway.

She's kind of obnoxious at this point. I thought she was interesting at first but it's like Rousey Overload.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 6, 2012)

She's a great fighter, but I just hate people who act that way. Reminds me of people I've been around who just feel the need to be dicks for no reason.

I think Cyborg would beat her down, though. Imagine the staredown for that fight, haha.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 6, 2012)

Yeah, I think Cyborg would mess her up pretty badly on the feet. But it's possible... Rhondabar.


----------



## Heavenly King (Mar 6, 2012)

IT'S SHOWTIME closes deal with new K-1 organization 

March 6, 2012 


With immediate effect, IT'S SHOWTIME closed a multi-year deal with the new owner of the K-1 label, Mr. Mike Kim. The company of Mr. Kim is called K-1 Global and is established in Hong Kong. 

Even though this new company didn’t have any obligations towards our company and our fighters, K-1 Global has paid all of our fighters this week. This means that every fighter received a signing bonus which consists of 50% of the money that was still owed to them by the old company FEG. 

K-1 will organize 4 big events already this year, including the final 16 and final 8 in the 70kg and heavyweight division. The bonuses the fighters can win will be astronomically high, but we leave it up to the company of K-1 Global to announce these amounts. We will also leave it up to them to announce the event schedule, but three weeks from now everything will be announced. 

The following fighters have already signed a contract with K-1 on behalf of IT’S SHOWTIME: Daniel Ghita, Tyrone Spong, Hesdy Gerges, Paul Slowinski, Rico Verhoeven, Anderson ‘Braddock’ Silva, Ben Edwards, Melvin Manhoef, Sergii Lashchenko, Mourad Bouzidi, Dzevad Poturak, Chahid Oulad El Hadj, Gago Drago and Andy Ristie. 

Contracts which are ready to be signed with K-1 this week: Ruslan Karaev, Harut Grigorian, Chris Ngimbi, etc. 

There have been several contracts signed with other big names in kickboxing, but these are not under contract with IT’S SHOWTIME, so we wait for K-1 Global to announce these names. 

We are very happy with these positive developments in our sport and for all fighters in the world who now get the possibilities to show their talent in K-1.

p.s. You dudes need to watch more stand up lol


----------



## Ippy (Mar 6, 2012)

I love Frankie, and he puts it all out there, but ffs, come on!  

Bendo landed more strikes, significant strikes, and caused ALL of the physical damage inflicted during that fight.





Heavenly King said:


> IT'S SHOWTIME closes deal with new K-1 organization
> 
> March 6, 2012
> 
> ...


This is great news.

It was touch and go for a while there...

btw, where's Zambidis?  I want to see a rematch with Chahid.  That fight was an instant classic.  "technical brawl" is the best way to describe it.

And where's Saki, while we're at it...  Is he really just going to boxing?  



Heavenly King said:


> p.s. You dudes need to watch more stand up lol


Already do, brosef.

Tis my base.


----------



## Ippy (Mar 6, 2012)

10 years American kickboxing, 2-3 years of grappling, and I've recently been going all in as far as Muay Thai.  I previously just dabbled in it.


----------



## Heavenly King (Mar 6, 2012)

Ippy said:


> 10 years American kickboxing, 2-3 years of grappling, and I've recently been going all in as far as Muay Thai.  I previously just dabbled in it.



nice it's the other way around for me more then 10 years in grappling about 2-3 years in Kun Khmer kick boxing


----------



## Gallic Rush (Mar 6, 2012)

Meh, I'm not really upset about a rematch between Bendo and Edgar since the alternative might have been a rematch between Bendo and Miller (if Miller beats Diaz) or Pettis.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 7, 2012)

I enjoy watching kickboxing sometimes myself, but it is a little more difficult to follow than MMA (an MMA is only easy to follow the big dogs; smaller orgs are nearly impossible).


As for Edgar / Bendo, I'm happy. Edgar deserves it. If you don't think he deserves it you're not a fan of MMA.


----------



## Heavenly King (Mar 7, 2012)

what do you mean by difficult? Crazymoron


----------



## Gallic Rush (Mar 7, 2012)

Mir vs Velasquez for UFC 146 (same card as Overeem vs Dos Santos).

Contender match up... So, who knows how that's all going to go.


----------



## Violent by Design (Mar 7, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> Mir vs Velasquez for UFC 146 (same card as Overeem vs Dos Santos).
> 
> Contender match up... So, who knows how that's all going to go.



Cain will probably TKO him.


----------



## Heavenly King (Mar 7, 2012)

Mir is going to kill Cain


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 7, 2012)

Heavenly King said:


> what do you mean by difficult? Crazymoron


 Difficult as in slightly harder to find online.

Also more difficulty to just jump right into since I don't really know who's good and who's shit (other than the really big names).


Gallic Rush said:


> Mir vs Velasquez for UFC 146 (same card as Overeem vs Dos Santos).
> 
> Contender match up... So, who knows how that's all going to go.


 Mir, submission, round 2.





Velasquez gonna make him work for it, but Mir is a very underrated fighter.


----------



## Arishem (Mar 7, 2012)

Do you have hd.net? They show a ton of kickboxing and non-ufc mma events, assuming you watch tv or have cable/satelite. 

Mir vs Cain will be a good fight. Given that neither have great chins, we could see a knockout after a standup exchange, but it wouldn't surprise me if Velasquez tries to bully Frank up against the cage. He might also try to take him down and pound him out on the ground, which might lead to a submission victory for Mir. I'd die of laughter if Cain got knocked out on his feet. It'll be exciting regardless of what goes down.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 7, 2012)

I don't have television.


I don't think Mir has what it takes to stand with Cain--nor do I expect him to attempt that (though Mir makes bad decisions quite often). But Cain wants none of Mir's ground game. I don't see Cain pulling a Lesnar.


----------



## Ippy (Mar 7, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I don't have television.


Damn fool.

You don't need Anderson Silva money.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 7, 2012)

Shit's expensive!


----------



## Arishem (Mar 7, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I don't have television.
> 
> 
> I don't think Mir has what it takes to stand with Cain--nor do I expect him to attempt that (though Mir makes bad decisions quite often). But Cain wants none of Mir's ground game. I don't see Cain pulling a Lesnar.


Mir is great at explosive submissions when the opportunities arise, but he's not very good at transitional grappling. Then there's the fact that he tends to turtle when the pressure is on him. Taking those things into consideration, I think a gnp tko is a viable way for Cain to win, if he stays conservative with the strikes. That being said, he probably would rather keep the fight standing with his wrestling base and go from there. As a non-fan of both guys, I just want to see someone get finished.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 7, 2012)

I'm not a huge fan of either guy, but I'd nod to Mir to an extent since he goes in there and gets it done a lot of the time. Although I still hate him for knocking out Cro Cop.


----------



## Arishem (Mar 7, 2012)

Crocop is a heartless sadomasochist who continues to fight only due to his addiction to pain and humiliation. It pleases him that his fans also get to suffer vicariously through his battles. I need a minute to myself after this post.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 7, 2012)

I have an MMA-tracker invite if anyone needs it.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Mar 7, 2012)

I dunno why so many people talking shit on Velasquez now. I mean, he lost badly, but he lost to a really fucking talented fighter. I'm not convinced there's anything wrong with his chin, and I think if he decides to stand and trade with Mir (if his confidence in his striking hasn't been shot to pieces) he can TKO Mir.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 8, 2012)

Cain got cracked behind the ear by one of the hardest hitters in the HW division. That would drop ANYBODY in the division, excluding Hunt. Cain has good hands, better than Frank IMO. Frank is the more versatile striker, but I don't think he's got a power advantage over him. Unless he can sub Cain, I see him getting dropped and TKOed in the 2nd.

Also, if you think Cain has no chin after taking a shot like that from Dos Santos, The Reem will not survive even 30 seconds against Dos Santos given his track record of exchanging with guys in MMA.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 8, 2012)

It might drop Hunt. Hunt isn't invincible, Manhoef knocked him out. It's just nearly impossible unless you connect on just the right place with enough power when he's putting his head up and coming forward, walking into the blow and not bracing for it.

Basically it's the MMA equivalent of a man winning the lottery--but the only people who can play the lottery hit like Godzilla.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 9, 2012)

Manhoef hits harder than JDS, I think.


----------



## Heavenly King (Mar 9, 2012)

if you look at the hunt vs manhoef it was hunt who rush in that got caught by the punches not to forget that manhoef has a 85% knock out rate. if hunt would have not rushed in he wouldn't have got k.o by him at all

@CrazyMoronX sign up for k-1fans.com and you can get all the kick boxing matches you want


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 9, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Manhoef hits harder than JDS, I think.


 Possibly.


Heavenly King said:


> if you look at the hunt vs manhoef it was hunt who rush in that got caught by the punches not to forget that manhoef has a 85% knock out rate. if hunt would have not rushed in he wouldn't have got k.o by him at all
> 
> @CrazyMoronX sign up for k-1fans.com and you can get all the kick boxing matches you want


 k1-fans.com, you say? 

I will check into this.  Does it have old fights as well?


----------



## Arishem (Mar 9, 2012)

Just to clarify, I never said that Mir or Cain were glass-chinned, merely that they can't really afford to eat shots in their division. Some guys can in heavyweight, others can momentarily shake it off, but both of the fighters here need to be somewhat cautious with the striking. I don't think either man will get koed on his feet. That being said, a strong punch has a good chance of sending the recipient to the mat, which I don't think anybody in this contest wants with their respective skillsets.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 9, 2012)

No one can afford to eat shots. Not even Mark Hunt.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 9, 2012)

I'm just saying, I don't there are many guys in the HW division who can finish Hunt with strikes. JDS and Overeem have a shot, but I can't really think of any others.

And with the Manhoef/Hunt thing, Hunt ran into Manhoef's punch. Wouldn't that add more force to the punch?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 9, 2012)

Yes, that's what I was alluding to.


----------



## Heavenly King (Mar 10, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Possibly.
> 
> k1-fans.com, you say?
> 
> I will check into this.  Does it have old fights as well?




yes they do

oh check out my team mates

Ricardo Georges
bleacherreport

Matt Doherty
bleacherreport


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 12, 2012)

I didn't watch the fight yet, but I saw that Cro Cop beat Sefo.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 14, 2012)

Got a Shooto 10th anniversary DVD from 2000. Footage from 89-1999. So weird seeing guys in 1990 fighting with actual skill. Compare that to the UFC in 93, the level they were on is so different.


----------



## Ippy (Mar 14, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> And with the Manhoef/Hunt thing, Hunt ran into Manhoef's punch. Wouldn't that add more force to the punch?


Yes, and that's actually a major component of striking.

At least a third of the techniques I've learned in Muay Thai and kickboxing involve using the opponent's own movement and momentum to add to the power of a strike.

If they miss with a low roundhouse kick and complete it with a spin, throw a straight right as their head completes the turn.  If they rush in after catching you with a shot, a teep (or front kick, or side kick) allows you to throw a halfassed kick that still does damage just because they were coming towards you when you threw it.

In the case of Hunt/Manhoef, Hunt's size advantage aided in the force of the punch being so strong.  His own body weight helped to KO him.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 14, 2012)

Shooto? 

I've never actually seen any of those.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 14, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Shooto?
> 
> I've never actually seen any of those.



The very first MMA organization. Started in 85 by Satoru Sayama as a pure grappling organization, and then in 89 added strikes. First organization to include rounds, gloves and weight classes.

Shooto don't get enough recognition. When fat karate guys were flailing around in the UFC in the early 90s, Shooto guys were kicking ass and taking names.

Go look up Rumina Sato, Yuki Nakai, Noboru Asahi, Kenji Kawaguchi and Enson Inoue. Those guys were the staples of early Shooto. Shooto also helped bring guys like Hayato Sakurai, Takanori Gomi, Shinya Aoki, Tatsuya Kawajiri, Mamoru Yamaguchi, Hatsu Hioki, Caol Uno and many others into prominence within MMA.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C61q9eRlDj0[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRNgOkmfTSk[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 14, 2012)

I know what it is. 

I've just never watched it because I'm a cunt.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 15, 2012)

I was just discussing it's greatness.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 15, 2012)

Why you... 

Man, the UFC is in a dry spell right now. I need my fix.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 15, 2012)

145 and 146 are gonna be good! I'm excited to see Jones destroy Shaddy.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 15, 2012)

Also, people who like to say GSP can't strike or he can't knock people out:



GSP will destroy Condit.


----------



## Sanity Check (Mar 16, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> And with the Manhoef/Hunt thing, Hunt ran into Manhoef's punch. Wouldn't that add more force to the punch?



Yes.

I don't know if it will apply to MMA, but one of the things boxing fans look at is if a boxer KO'ed people who are moving away from them.  That's considered a sign someone hits _really_ hard.

Then, there are fighters who KO people with their hands behind their back.

[YOUTUBE]6JiVTqPlxPA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 16, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> 145 and 146 are gonna be good! I'm excited to see Jones destroy Shaddy.


 But isn't that in like 50 months? 


The Fireball Kid said:


> Also, people who like to say GSP can't strike or he can't knock people out:
> 
> 
> 
> GSP will destroy Condit.


 Also, GSP hasn't knocked out anybody ever since. He got a TKO on Matt Hughes.

He can strike pretty well, yes. But anyone can knock someone out if they catch them right.


1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Yes.
> 
> I don't know if it will apply to MMA, but one of the things boxing fans look at is if a boxer KO'ed people who are moving away from them. That's considered a sign someone hits _really_ hard.
> 
> Then, there are fighters who KO people with their hands behind their back.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 17, 2012)

GSP was practically killing Fitch in the stand up. He has power in his hands, believe me.


----------



## Heavenly King (Mar 17, 2012)

Some old fights i thought they were new but i was wrong
Superfight: Bogdan Stoica (Romania) - Dawid Baziak (Germany)
Link removed

Superfight: Andrei Stoica (Romania) - James Phillips (Germany)


New fights

FULL ENG Superfight: Daniel Ghiţă (Romania) - Sergei Lascenko (Ukraine)
Link removed

K-1 Mirko Cro Cop Filipovic vs Ray Sefo Full Fight 
Link removed


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 19, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> GSP was practically killing Fitch in the stand up. He has power in his hands, believe me.


 Then why didn't he finish him? 



GSP has power, but he doesn't have 1-hit knockout power in his hands. He doesn't have Hendricks power. He doesn't have Condit power. He has a strong jab and an (nearly) unstoppable takedown. He used to have great kicks.


Heavenly King said:


> Some old fights i thought they were new but i was wrong
> Superfight: Bogdan Stoica (Romania) - Dawid Baziak (Germany)
> Link removed
> 
> ...


 Wild Boys.


----------



## Ippy (Mar 19, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Also, people who like to say GSP can't strike or he can't knock people out:
> 
> 
> 
> GSP will destroy Condit.



1. The events in that gif were... _many _years ago.  That's like people saying Rampage still has heavy hands.

2. Condit is a tough son of a bitch.  He will not wilt under the pressure nor mentally check out of the fight if it's not going his way.

3. Condit's chin is solid.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 19, 2012)

I'd be incredibly surprised if GSP knocks out Condit.

It'd be the most surprising thing of all time.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 22, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Then why didn't he finish him?
> 
> 
> 
> GSP has power, but he doesn't have 1-hit knockout power in his hands. He doesn't have Hendricks power. He doesn't have Condit power. He has a strong jab and an (nearly) unstoppable takedown. He used to have great kicks.



Fitch is a hard guy to put away. The shots GSP was landing on Fitch were shots that could put away a lot of guys in the WW division.






Ippy said:


> 1. The events in that gif were... _many _years ago.  That's like people saying Rampage still has heavy hands.
> 
> 2. Condit is a tough son of a bitch.  He will not wilt under the pressure nor mentally check out of the fight if it's not going his way.
> 
> 3. Condit's chin is solid.



I wasn't really saying GSP would knock him out, just that a lot of people forget GSP can stand and bang. Besides, Condit's wrestling is very weak. Good BJJ, but it's very doubtful he can submit a guy like GSP off his back.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 22, 2012)

Perhaps, but he still doesn't have that kind of power.

I'm talking about Hendricks power. Or Juggernaut power.

Not saying he wouldn't beat either standing up due to skill/speed/athleticism/riddum, but he can't match them blow-for-blow. He'd be crazy to try.


----------



## zoro_santoryu (Mar 26, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> 145 and 146 are gonna be good! I'm excited to see Jones destroy Shaddy.



UFC 147?

Im personally looking forward to 147 more than any event ever. I wanna see Anderson Silva f**k up that arrogant, disrespectful prick.

146 will be good too. JDS ftw.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 26, 2012)

The heavyweight even is going be fucking epic. Is that 147? Shit's gonna be epic. I hope Hunt wins, but I also am a Struve fan... very conflicted.


----------



## zoro_santoryu (Mar 26, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> The heavyweight even is going be fucking epic. Is that 147? Shit's gonna be epic. I hope Hunt wins, but I also am a Struve fan... very conflicted.



147 is Anderson Silva vs Chael Sonnen 2. Biggest rematch in history


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 27, 2012)

Oh yeah....

Should be good, but right now I want to see the Heavyweight card more. Don't know why.


----------



## Ippy (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm liking this new TUF format.

I loled @ Cruz giving the control back to Faber, and none of his guys wanted to step up... ouch!

Also, who here trains again?  I've seen some different names here in the past couple months, and I'm curious.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 27, 2012)

That was pretty hard to watch.

No one stepped up. Faber lost his golden opportunity. Lost the first two fights. Not looking very good for Faber.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Mar 27, 2012)

Ippy said:


> Also, who here trains again?  I've seen some different names here in the past couple months, and I'm curious.


I feel like that question gets asked once a month. I do, but not often anymore (once or twice a week).





Any of you guys see TUF Brazil? Some interesting fights. A few guys looked REALLY sharp, but overall the talent level was identical to what you see in the US.

Also, Zuffa cut King Mo for calling some NSAC shirt a racist bitch. Kind of hilarious.


----------



## Almondsand (Mar 28, 2012)

Anderson Silva destroys anyone, no one will beat this man in the UFC. This guy is going to destroy Chael Sonnen cheating ass, he better take 50x the steroids he used last time because Anderson is going to be healthy and is going to absolutely destroy him with strikes.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 28, 2012)

I watched TUF Brazil last night.

It was pretty decent. I have a favorite already: that BJJ guy. I don't think he'll win, I just like the guy.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Mar 28, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I watched TUF Brazil last night.
> 
> It was pretty decent. I have a favorite already: that BJJ guy. I don't think he'll win, I just like the guy.



You can already find the results (finalists) online. It was leaked by a rival Brazilian MMA organization. Frankly, I can't remember any of the names of the fighters; so, it wouldn't matter if someone told me.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 28, 2012)

Yeah, I can't remember either.

Gazpaohdao was one of their names or something.


----------



## Ippy (Mar 28, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> I feel like that question gets asked once a month. I do, but not often anymore (once or twice a week).


You do?  In what?  UFC? 

I'm currently all about Judo and Muay Thai.  



Gallic Rush said:


> Any of you guys see TUF Brazil? Some interesting fights. A few guys looked REALLY sharp, but overall the talent level was identical to what you see in the US.


I watch it, actually.

I loved Wanderlei's comment about needing a super-sized cup.  Scary friend.



Gallic Rush said:


> Also, Zuffa cut King Mo for calling some NSAC shirt a racist bitch. Kind of hilarious.


Twitter = every fighter's downfall.



Almondsand said:


> Anderson Silva destroys anyone, no one will beat this man in the UFC. This guy is going to destroy Chael Sonnen cheating ass, he better take 50x the steroids he used last time because Anderson is going to be healthy and is going to absolutely destroy him with strikes.




Slow your roll, champ.

I am as confident as Silva as the next guy, but let's not go crazy with the hyperbole.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 28, 2012)

Sonnen is going to give Silva another good fight, but I am pretty sure Silva has his number this time.


I guess he should have had it the first time, but...


----------



## Gallic Rush (Mar 28, 2012)

Ippy said:


> You do?  In what?  UFC?



BJJ, boxing/kickboxing. I come from a TKD background.


----------



## Almondsand (Mar 28, 2012)

Ippy said:


> Slow your roll, champ.
> 
> I am as confident as Silva as the next guy, but let's not go crazy with the hyperbole.



What I said was absolute fact, everybody was on Chael Sonnen dick.. but when I watched that fight I knew Anderson was injured (later confirmed to be a broken rib) or something and I saw him thinking his way through the whole time. Did you see that gash anderson put over Chael's face it was hideous coming from a brutal elbow in the last round which Anderson finished with a submission.  Chael is going to get schooled because there is not broken rib and he will more than likely be tested for PED's. Anderson Silva is the only one that can be cocky, not this lisp having bitch.


CrazyMoronX said:


> Sonnen is going to give Silva another good fight, but I am pretty sure Silva has his number this time.
> 
> 
> I guess he should have had it the first time, but...



Sonnen is not going to be impressive I gua-ran-damn-teed. Watch


----------



## Matariki (Mar 29, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vK702tPK_s[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 29, 2012)

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Was Silva's performance hampered by his rib?
Was he really sandbagging to get that sub?
Can Sonnen pull off another tight victory before submitting with 1 minute to go?


The anticipation is unbearable!


----------



## Matariki (Mar 29, 2012)

The real question is, will Sonnen make it out of Brazil alive?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 29, 2012)

Yes.


Yes he will. Win or lose. It's not like Brazil is some giant blood-thirsty mob.


----------



## Matariki (Mar 29, 2012)

It's too bad though Mir declined his fight with Werdum in Brazil because of their 'crazy fans'. 

But Mir vs Cain is pretty good too.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 29, 2012)

Can't blame Mir for it, but that would be a great fight.

K-1 Werdum vs Golden Gloves Mir.


----------



## Sanity Check (Mar 29, 2012)

*Reporters vs MMA fighters* 

*Cris Cyborg vs reporter*
[YOUTUBE]xyYIcCEcZMo[/YOUTUBE]

*Jon Jones vs reporter*
[YOUTUBE]y6yQe2VtHN4[/YOUTUBE]

The reporter actually gets Jon Jones down for a bit.  

*Lyoto vs reporter*


----------



## TheGreatOne (Mar 29, 2012)

Am I right in thinking that if Rashad cannot beat Jones that the Light Heavyweight will be another Middleweight division?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 29, 2012)

I'd fight all those guys, too. 


If Rashad doesn't beat Jones I think that Machida still has a shot. But if Machida can't win a rematch then the LHW division is doomed.


----------



## Sanity Check (Mar 30, 2012)

TheGreatOne said:


> Am I right in thinking that if Rashad cannot beat Jones that the Light Heavyweight will be another Middleweight division?



Jones says hes moving to heavyweight if he clears out the division.

He's 6'3.  He'll bulk up into another Overeem if he can find himself some quality horsemeat.


----------



## Heavenly King (Mar 31, 2012)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Jones says hes moving to heavyweight if he clears out the division.
> 
> He's 6'3.  He'll bulk up into another Overeem if he can find himself some quality horsemeat.



That would be a bad Idea if He did that



CrazyMoronX said:


> Shooto?
> 
> I've never actually seen any of those.



good stuff watch it


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Mar 31, 2012)

I don't know much about MMA, but Daiju Takase might be the dumbest/luckiest fighter ever.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWxlZ52O0rI[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Violent by Design (Mar 31, 2012)

How was he lucky in that fight?


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Mar 31, 2012)

Violent By Design said:


> How was he lucky in that fight?



By some miracle being able to slip out from under the Sumo.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 31, 2012)

The stupid logic of "Lots of losses/below .500 record means he sucks". Daiju Takase is not one of the best fighters by any means, but the guy is extremely underrated. The guy is a submission wiz and great on the ground as evidence by him completely out grappling Chris Brennan and Carlos Newton to decisions and grapple fucking Anderson Silva to win by submission. Just so happens he's plagued with with a terrible chin and pretty much no striking game. He was a small middleweight fighting bigger, tougher, more rounded fighters with mixed success.

That being said, Daiju Takase is one of my favorite fighters.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Mar 31, 2012)

BTW, anyone catch Bellator last night? Got pretty much all my picks right. 

Bellator really does have some of the best fights, honestly. Not saying it's better than UFC, but damn, I think nearly every fight was exciting other than Baker/Pereira. I had Amassou winning, but damn I wanted Lozano to win.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Mar 31, 2012)

Man, I haven't seen an MMA fight in what feels like a month now. I thought everyone died.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 1, 2012)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Man, I haven't seen an MMA fight in what feels like a month now. I thought everyone died.



It's kind of good. I wouldn't say I'm taking a "break" from MMA, but without an event every Saturday it's hard to think about it all the time. That said, I can't wait for new UFC and Strikeforce events.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 2, 2012)

I watched MMA last night.

Sean McCorkle lost his fight to some random guy, ending his 6(?) or something fight winning streak against random guys.

Houston Alexander was knocked out again--this time by a LHW Gilbert Yvel. 

And a bunch of other stuff. 


I've also been watching both TUFs. So far, Brazil > America.


----------



## Gaja (Apr 4, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I watched MMA last night.
> 
> Sean McCorkle lost his fight to some random guy, ending his 6(?) or something fight winning streak against random guys.
> 
> ...



What's you opinion on the Brazil TUF, I haven't gotten around to watching it yet. Can't say I care much for TUF 15 or whatever it is.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 4, 2012)

It's not too bad. The last fight blew goat cunt, but the ones before that were all great.

They also have the most star-studded team of coaches ever:

*Wanderlei:*
Werdum
Babalu
Rafael Cordeiro

It's crazy.


----------



## Gray Wolf (Apr 4, 2012)

Berlusconi 

Alistair Overeem failed the pre-fight drug test.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 4, 2012)

Shocking. All this time I thought it was the horse meat.


----------



## Matariki (Apr 4, 2012)

Fedor vs JDS please


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 4, 2012)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Fucking Overeem ruining the title fight.


----------



## Matariki (Apr 4, 2012)

“I am beyond pissed about this,” said UFC president Dana White on Wednesday in a conference call with Canadian media that had been scheduled for one week.

“I’m so (expletive) mad right now I can’t even begin ... ”

Berlusconi


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 4, 2012)

I am more pissed than Dana.

I was going to watch that UFC fight for free on the Internet.


----------



## Ippy (Apr 4, 2012)

Goddamn it, Reem!


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 4, 2012)

I was so close to believing in Reem, too.


----------



## Sasuke (Apr 4, 2012)

Disappointing. I was looking forward to the fight. Can't say I'm shocked.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 4, 2012)

There is still an off chance he might still fight. He has a NSAC hearing or something and a "B Sample" whatever that means.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 4, 2012)

was looking forward to this match. I highly doubt Overeem still fights. I think the obvious replacement is Mir. He's had 3 straight wins and his last victory was impressive. The 2nd possibility is Velasquez rematch. The 3rd option is Werdum. Anybody else will get crushed (well, maybe not Carwin).

The problem with these 3 options, is that the Pay-Per-View sales will be lacking. Overeem vs. JDS was gonna be an epic striking slugfest people wanted to see. Not many want to see Mir or rematch with Velasquez.

Lesnar would have redeemed the pay-per-view sales, but he's obviously unavailable now. If Dana wants to keep the match competitive, he picks Mir/Velasquez. If Dana wants to make as much money as possible with the Pay-Per-View (which he's known for), he stops being stubborn and signs Fedor to fight JDS. White will give Fedor a "now or never" kind of deal. 

This is wishful thinking, but I don't care  

(that said, JDS most likely fights Mir )


----------



## Early (Apr 4, 2012)

I heard the the sky's blue


----------



## Gray Wolf (Apr 5, 2012)

It is not surprising when you look at the timeline photo.


----------



## Shozan (Apr 5, 2012)

Gray Wolf said:


> It is not surprising when you look at the timeline photo.



what with that? Barry Bonds make a enormous progress with his physique through the years. That doesn't prove anything!


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 5, 2012)

Lesnar was defeated by roid kicks. It shouldn't count.


----------



## Shozan (Apr 5, 2012)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Lesnar was defeated by roid kicks. It shouldn't count.



Brock Lesnar first Unified WWE & UFC Champion


----------



## Matariki (Apr 5, 2012)

Kuya said:


> was looking forward to this match. I highly doubt Overeem still fights. I think the obvious replacement is Mir. He's had 3 straight wins and his last victory was impressive. The 2nd possibility is Velasquez rematch. The 3rd option is Werdum. Anybody else will get crushed (well, maybe not Carwin).



I doubt Mark Hunt would get crushed...


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 5, 2012)

Seiko said:


> I doubt Mark Hunt would get crushed...



Mark Hunt needs a couple more wins before he gets anywhere near the belt. The guy is 8-7 and while he did knock out Kongo, he looked atrocious in his fight with Rothwell. Maybe a fight with Carwin or someone else. Besides, he's a great striker but I think JDS is more elusive and is the better boxer of the two. I'd love to see that fight, though.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 5, 2012)

I'd like to see Mark Hunt in there so much my dick is hard. 

Hendo could also get in there and mix it up. 

I think we keep the card as it is and just throw in Mark Hunt or Hendo. Maybe Jon Jones. Or call in Pat Barry. He'd be down for it.


----------



## Han Solo (Apr 5, 2012)

Overeem.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 5, 2012)

Overoids.

Bad nickname is going to stick now.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 5, 2012)

the fight is too soon for Jon Jones or Hendo to gain weight for that.

and although I like Mark Hunt and think he's tanky, he stands no chance against JDS whatsoever. JDS would be like a 20-1 favorite.

It's gonna be Mir fawwkkkkkkk


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 5, 2012)

Hendo doesn't give a darn.

Canon.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 5, 2012)

JDS vs. Mir 
Cain vs. Werdum (for number one contender)
Nelson vs. bigfoot silva


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 5, 2012)

What's Roy Nelson up to?


----------



## Arishem (Apr 5, 2012)

Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth...Roider.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 5, 2012)

Mark Hunt vs JDS.


I don't care if he's not ready. I'm ready.


----------



## Rampage (Apr 5, 2012)

Daymm Overeem...


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 5, 2012)

Maybe the horses he was eating (Anne Hathaway joke in here somewhere) had been on horse steroids.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Apr 5, 2012)

Smh, I'm not interested in JDS-Mir at all. I would rather see Cain-Mir to be honest, but this whole Overeem thing really might mess things up.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 5, 2012)

I'm okay with Mir/JDS, but I'd much rather see Hunt/JDS, Hendo/JDS, Jones/JDS, or even BJ "Burrito" Penn/JDS.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 5, 2012)

I'm not sure if Hendo could beat JDS, but it would be so damn awesome to see him in there.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 6, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4AnJgwV68E[/YOUTUBE]​


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 6, 2012)

Damn, Junior.... Just.... Damn.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 6, 2012)

Mir vs. JDS for belt 
Fedor vs. Cain for #1 Contender


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 7, 2012)

If Hunt gets a title shot I'd blow my head off. Love the guy, but he's 8-7 with arguably ONE relevant win in the last few years.


----------



## Matariki (Apr 7, 2012)

Mir is already fighting Cain. Hunt may not have earned a title shot yet but he is the best option under the circumstances. And yeah, styles make fights.

"@FrontRowBrian: The legendary "Stone Cold" Steve Austin will serve as Chael Sonnen's Strength and Conditioning consultant for the Anderson Silva camp."


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 7, 2012)

How would Hunt get the title shot... please be realistic, people.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 8, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> How would Hunt get the title shot... please be realistic, people.



I think he's won 2 or 3 in a row, but Dana White likes to listen to his fans. Because that means more $$$. And fans are "rallying" for Hunt way more than they are for Mir right now.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 8, 2012)

Yay it's not going to be Mir!

Apparently you can get the whole trilogy for ?4.99.


----------



## Matariki (Apr 8, 2012)

Joe Rogan
@markhunt1974 I fully support the rally for Mark Hunt to replace The Reem!


----------



## Sasuke (Apr 8, 2012)

Hunt would KO JDS. 

Anyway, I'm still holding out for some hope of Reem still fighting, seems the UFC are too.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 8, 2012)

I mean, stylistically it's not a terrible fight for Hunt since JDS rarely goes for takedowns, but let's even pretend for a second that Hunt somehow beats JDS-- he would lose the belt to the first wrestler he comes across.


----------



## Federer (Apr 8, 2012)

Well I hope the Reem will fight, if he gets pass the second test?


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 8, 2012)

Reem is not out of the fight yet, his other test hasn't come in yet. So for all we know he may still be fighting.

Even if he is out of the fight, I don't think a fighter who isn't even in the top ten should get a shot over Mir or Cain. I love Hunt but c'mon, it's not really fair.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 8, 2012)

Federer said:


> Well I hope the Reem will fight, if he gets pass the second test?



Dude... come on... there is no way his B sample is coming back in the clear if he was at 14:1 testosterone to estrogen.
Mistakes can be made, but not to that degree.


----------



## Sasuke (Apr 8, 2012)

> "With these recent developments, it's telling us UFC and Overeem are extremely confident the main event for UFC 146 can go ahead as planned"
> 
> "You don't apply for a license hoping to get it and risk being put on time out for 1 year. Overeem knows something"
> 
> "he has some explanation he feels extremely confident with."



From some knowledgeable MMA twitter source that usually breaks a bunch of inside news before most, or some such. I've seen the name around a bunch of times.

Anyway, yeah, Reem hasn't even asked for the second B sample to be tested apparently. Because of his odd situation there are a bunch of loopholes he can potentially exploit. I don't think the fight will go ahead but it's definitely not a forgone conclusion already. I want the fight to happen because any other potential match-ups are meh. Unless he brings in Barnett from Strikeforce, but he'd probably piss hot too. ~___~


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 8, 2012)

This is retarded. Whatever explanation he has it is not going to get him a license-- this is a last ditch effort simply because he knew the B sample would reveal the same thing as the A sample which is that he is a roid monkey.

I am surprised how quiet Dana and the UFC has been about this debacle.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 9, 2012)

Yeah, no way can Overeem talk his way out of this one.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 9, 2012)

I'm not sure fans want this fight anymore. i was highly looking forward to this but now myself and i'm sure 99% of MMA fans know that Overeem cheated with roids and that news just diminishes my excitement.

I was starting to love the guy, but now I hope he gets suspended for a year without pay.

Also..... would anyone else be interested in a Cung Le vs. Mark Munoz fight? Yellow on Yellow crime ftw.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 9, 2012)

Nah, Munoz would just take Cung down, punch his thighs for three rounds, and score a UD.

Cung Le vs Chris Leben. That way we can see Leben get Anderson Silva'd again, except he has a chance to win after taking flashy kicks and spinning back knees.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 9, 2012)

Hmmm Cung Le vs. Chris Leben does sound more interesting than Munoz cuz Leben would wanna stand up and try to tank.

Btw, I've met and spoken to Leben several times already. His gym here in Hawaii is down the street from my house and yes he smokes weed lol


----------



## Federer (Apr 9, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Yeah, no way can Overeem talk his way out of this one.



I wanna believe he can. 

Maybe he's partially an animal or something.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 9, 2012)

Federer said:


> I wanna believe he can.
> 
> Maybe he's partially an animal or something.



14:1 is ridiculously ridiculously high.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 9, 2012)

Kuya said:


> Hmmm Cung Le vs. Chris Leben does sound more interesting than Munoz cuz Leben would wanna stand up and try to tank.
> 
> Btw, I've met and spoken to Leben several times already. His gym here in Hawaii is down the street from my house and yes he smokes weed lol


Figures.

Everyone smokes weed these days. It's a thing. Like TRT.


Federer said:


> I wanna believe he can.
> 
> Maybe he's partially an animal or something.



Maybe he ate tainted horse meat. They really pump those things up with horse steroids for consumption, I'd imagine, since it would produce more meat.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 10, 2012)

Kuya said:


> I'm not sure fans want this fight anymore. i was highly looking forward to this but now myself and i'm sure 99% of MMA fans know that Overeem cheated with roids and that news just diminishes my excitement.
> 
> I was starting to love the guy, *but now I hope he gets suspended for a year without pay*.
> 
> Also..... would anyone else be interested in a Cung Le vs. Mark Munoz fight? Yellow on Yellow crime ftw.



Wow, what a dick thing to say. So his family should suffer for his mistake? We don't even know for sure that he DID use any PED's. Just goes to show how many fairweather fans exist in MMA.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 10, 2012)

I don't really care if he did or not. It doesn't make me want to watch him fight any less.

It might make me want him to lose more.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 10, 2012)

It'd be a cool match up obviously, both are good strikers. I'd still give JDS the edge, however.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 10, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Wow, what a dick thing to say. So his family should suffer for his mistake? We don't even know for sure that he DID use any PED's. Just goes to show how many fairweather fans exist in MMA.



Uh, so having a family means breaking the rules is forgivable? I am not sure I follow your reasoning here.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 10, 2012)

Sonnen was suspended for a year, so Overeem should be as well depending on the outcome of the NSAC hearing.

That said, I'd still rather see Overeem get knocked out by JDS.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 10, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Wow, what a dick thing to say. So his family should suffer for his mistake? We don't even know for sure that he DID use any PED's. Just goes to show how many fairweather fans exist in MMA.



Umm, it's normal to get suspended for a year for this kind of thing. Look at Sonnen and Silva when they got caught.

How is it dick? This is *his job* and he broke the rules for one of the biggest fights of the year. He is the black eye of MMA right now and has screwed up an incredible fight card and let down hundreds of thousands or even millions of fans. Steroids should not be tolerated at any level.

lol @ fairweather fan


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 10, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> Uh, so having a family means breaking the rules is forgivable? I am not sure I follow your reasoning here.



"I hope he's suspended for a year _without pay_"

I'm not saying breaking the rules are forgivable, but it's fucking whack as shit to say you hope a guy loses his job because of it.

How would you guys like it if someone on the internet said they hoped you lost your job because you fucked up? So retarded.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 10, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> "I hope he's suspended for a year _without pay_"
> 
> I'm not saying breaking the rules are forgivable, but it's fucking whack as shit to say you hope a guy loses his job because of it.
> 
> How would you guys like it if someone on the internet said they hoped you lost your job because you fucked up? So retarded.



Not lose his job... get suspended for breaking the biggest rule. Huge difference lol

He's essentially a cheater and why should he get paid if he's not going to fight...

i don't see why you are mad at that statement??? it's happened before.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 10, 2012)

I don't think The Reem is hurting for cash, but I want to see him fight before a year's up.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 10, 2012)

if he gets caught or it's proven, he deserves to be suspended just like Sonnen and Silva.

no matter the weight class, he got caught and it's only his 2nd fight in the UFC.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 10, 2012)

It's a sticky situation.

I mean we all knew he was eating more than just horses, but I kind of had hope.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 10, 2012)

i knew it was iffy when he moved to heavyweight, but a little part of me believed that today's sports scientists and nutritionists are capable of transfroming a professional fighter with different training and diet

i didn't want to believe he was a cheater because i really liked his story. now i'm just disappointed.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 10, 2012)

I think it's still theoretically possible that with the right genes, frame, workout plan, diet, and supplements it's possible to get that big.

It's just easier to cheat. Much easier.

Look at this guy:


----------



## Kuya (Apr 10, 2012)

Interesting article. Arnold was huge back then, but he'd be so tiny now compared to today's bodybuilders.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 10, 2012)

Just goes to show the progression of both the whole bodybuilding science and "enhancements".

It is awfully tempting to get on TRT. I mean, I'm 30, I probably need it.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 10, 2012)

Lol try it for a year and see what happens


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 10, 2012)

UberCMX.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 10, 2012)




----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 10, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> "I hope he's suspended for a year _without pay_"
> 
> I'm not saying breaking the rules are forgivable, but it's fucking whack as shit to say you hope a guy loses his job because of it.
> 
> How would you guys like it if someone on the internet said they hoped you lost your job because you fucked up? So retarded.



Suspension isn't the same as getting cut. Sonnen got suspended without pay for a year, and he's going to be fighting Anderson in Brazil. Overeem will be fine, but right now he's dealing with the shit that he brought upon himself. No one poked him with a needle while he was sleeping and injected him with steroids.

In any event, if there isn't some kind of punishment for breaking the rules you might as well not have the rules.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 10, 2012)

^^^Yup. I was only stating I hope he gets punished the same way Sonnen and Tiago Silva did. 1 year without pay... Not sure what he was so damn upset about.

Either way, Overeem is a professinal athlete with way more money than 99.99% of members on this forum.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 10, 2012)

I think it's safe to say 100%.

I don't think there are any secret millionaires.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 10, 2012)

yeah i wanted to say 100%, but you never know 

JDS deserves to know who he's fighting already. Hurry up Dana


----------



## Matariki (Apr 11, 2012)

Lol, the fight is still on according to Bas

Overeem will claim TRT and get away with it


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 11, 2012)

There is a chance the fight is still going down as planned.

I guess Dana isn't even trying to replace the Reem until the hearing (the 24th, is it?).


----------



## Jekidoruy (Apr 11, 2012)

So my question is who should replace the Reem? Personally I think that Mark Hunt should. It would still give JDS the same style match up that he would have if he fought the Reem. The only advantage is that the Reem has better submission game than Mark Hunt has. I like Frank Mir and all but it get kind of wwe like when you see the same guys getting title shots all the time.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 11, 2012)

Who do I want to fight?

Or who deserves to fight?


Want: Hunt or Hendo. 

Deserves? That's a tricky question. 

Cain just lost it, so I don't think he should get a rematch. I don't agree with instant rematches unless there is some split decision or controversy or something of that manner (Frankie/Gray).

Frank hasn't really beaten anyone that impressive. Sure he beat Nog, and yes it was impressive, but does that warrant a title shot? Nah. Out of everyone, I'd say he has the strongest case though.

Jones would both be exciting and he would deserve the shot given he is already a title holder. It's a super fight. Champs get special treatment. But he isn't ready and he has to fight Rashad soon. Not gonna happen.

Werdum? He beat Fedor and Nelson, but lost to Reem. Does that make a title contender? Not in my universe. Not to mention JDS already beat him. Badly.

Maybe if Jones beats Rashad easily, no injuries, and says he wants to fight...


----------



## Kuya (Apr 11, 2012)

Local rumors here in Hawaii: BJ Penn is back in the gym and training. 

Seriously though, whenever he trains in the mainland he's a beast. whenever he trains here in Hawaii he just becomes a lazy island boy that eats all the good island food (no diet plan) and gets a beer belly drinking Heineken all day and gets whooped in the Octagon for being out of shape. Typical local boy.

BJ Penn needs to switch up his training or get a new trainer. He isn't known for being a physical beast but he has such great talent/skill to take on someone like Donald Cerrone or Anthony Pettis for a "welcome back" fight. I'd also love to see him fight Maynard.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 11, 2012)

BJ Penn is in the mix, you think?


----------



## Kuya (Apr 11, 2012)

BJ Penn should still be top 10 in that division if properly trained.

1) Ben Henderson
2) Frankie Edgar
3) Gray Maynard
4) Diaz
5) Pettis
6) Cerrone
7) Guida
8) Penn

Penn could give 4 thru 7 a pretty damn good fight.


----------



## eHav (Apr 11, 2012)

i would rather have bendo have a decent run with the title now, kinda like him.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Apr 11, 2012)

Nick is facing Braulio Estima at the 2012 World Jiu-Jitsu Expo.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 11, 2012)

Kuya said:


> BJ Penn should still be top 10 in that division if properly trained.
> 
> 1) Ben Henderson
> 2) Frankie Edgar
> ...


1) I think Penn would get dominated
2) See #1
3) If he does as well against Maynard as he did against Fitch...Penn by KO/TKO.
4) Diaz by scrapping decision. JUST SCRAP HOMIE.
5) Penn, submission.
6) Penn, close decision.
7) Guida grapplefuck.
8) Burritos.


Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Nick is facing Braulio Estima at the 2012 World Jiu-Jitsu Expo.


Nick via Omopota or Gogopota.

Note the spelling.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 11, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> 1) I think Penn would get dominated
> 2) See #1
> 3) If he does as well against Maynard as he did against Fitch...Penn by KO/TKO.
> 4) Diaz by scrapping decision. JUST SCRAP HOMIE.
> ...



1) Penn vs. Ben Henderson. Penn gets dominated in the stand-up, and ties in the ground game. Ben Henderson via unanimous decision. Or Penn gets knocked out via headkick.
2) Penn vs. Edgar. Penn gets murked again.
3) Penn vs Maynard. I think this is really close, but i believe that Maynard can eventually knock him out. 
4) Penn vs. Diaz. I think Penn gets outstriked cuz of the reach, but Penn would submit him.
5) Penn vs. Pettis. Penn via submission.
6) Penn vs. Cerrone. Would be an awesome fight, and I saw it's a tie via decision.
7) Penn vs. Guida. Epic fight, like all Guida fights, but Penn via decision.
8) Burrito Burrito.



eHav said:


> i would rather have bendo have a decent run with the title now, kinda like him.



Really liked him and Cerrone since WEC. And I love his background story. It was cute no homo. I kinda hope he holds the belt for a while too, but since I'm from Hawaii i gotta be bias and say i would still love to see Penn get the belt back again since Edgar doesn't have it anymore.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 11, 2012)

Nobody can't knock BJ Penn out.

Nobody.


----------



## Matariki (Apr 11, 2012)

UFC 145 next week

I will cheer for Evans hm. He was betrayed by Greg Jackson's camp


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 11, 2012)

Hell yeah.

Gonna be boss.

Pulling for Evans, but I think Jones is smashing him.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 11, 2012)

i dunno, sometimes Evans seems villainous to me which makes me not like him, other time he seems like a cool guy. i dunno how i feel about him.

vs. Shogun, i rooted for Bones.
vs. Rampage, i rooted for Rampage.
vs. Lyoto, i rooted for the Karate Kid.
vs. Evan, i think i'm gonna root for Bones this time.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 11, 2012)

Kuya said:


> i dunno, sometimes Evans seems villainous to me which makes me not like him, other time he seems like a cool guy. i dunno how i feel about him.
> 
> vs. Shogun, i rooted for Bones.
> vs. Rampage, i rooted for Rampage.
> ...



No one
No one
Lyoto
Evans

I wasn't really rooting for either in the Shogun or Rampage fights. I have no stock in either fighter.

Jones so cocky.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 11, 2012)

What does Evans have that Lyoto doesn't?

The only advantage (which may turn out huge) is that he's sparred with Jones before, but they obviously weren't going 100% @ it.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 11, 2012)

Rashad has better wrestling.

I think that's about it.

He's much more explosive because he's black.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 11, 2012)

So we have to wait till April 24th to know if Overeem gets the license or not? 

JDS deserves more time than just a month to figure out who is opponent is going to be .


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 11, 2012)

Be ready for anyone.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 12, 2012)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Nick is facing Braulio Estima at the 2012 World Jiu-Jitsu Expo.


Diaz is probably going to get crushed... Estima ain't no one to fuck with on the mat. Plus he's bigger.



Kuya said:


> What does Evans have that Lyoto doesn't?
> 
> The only advantage (which may turn out huge) is that he's sparred with Jones before, but they obviously weren't going 100% @ it.


He has plenty. He hits harder and faster with his hands and is a superior wrestler. I think I have to say he's also faster at closing distance although Lyoto is very fast in that aspect as well-- so, toss up on that one.

In any event, I think the big question is: will Rashad fight on the outside or the inside? When he was commentating on the Jones vs Rampage fight he was bringing up how you got to push to Jon's chest and make him uncomfortable. Even though that would be ideal, historically Rashad has fought a lot on the outside and we never really see him push into anyone's chest to strike. If he fights on the outside, I think he will lose and I think he knows that. 

One thing that I think is going against Rashad though is his chin. Both he and Jones took shots from Machida, but frankly Machida looked to be in way better condition when he fought Jones and he barely phased Jones when he connected. Rashad on the other hand got fucked up pretty badly as we all remember. 

If it turns into a wrestling match I see Rashad having an advantage-- especially in the later rounds. Stealing the late rounds with takedowns and winning a decision would not be impossible or even unlikely.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 12, 2012)

Lyoto has decent knockout power (evans wins by a lil) and I believe Lyoto's hands are faster than Evans. I'll give Evans the wrestling tho.


----------



## Teach (Apr 12, 2012)

Overeem will still somehow fight JDS.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 12, 2012)

Rashad had trouble with Phil Davis's reach.

'Nuff said.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 12, 2012)

He still completely dominated the wrestling. Davis is probably as good a wrestler as Jones-- even if the styles are quite different.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 12, 2012)

Teach said:


> Overeem will still somehow fight JDS.



Either way, it's a lose-lose situation for Alistar.

If he loses, he gets knocked out of top 3 ranked heavyweights and JDS looks that much more amazing. 

If he wins, it's like a tainted win and many fans will blame his victory on steroids.

If they fight I want JDS to embarrass his ass.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 12, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> He still completely dominated the wrestling. Davis is probably as good a wrestler as Jones-- even if the styles are quite different.


Yeah, Rashad impressed me in the Davis fight for that one fact alone.

All his shit-talking about beating him in a wrestling match? Backed it up for the most part.


Kuya said:


> Either way, it's a lose-lose situation for Alistar.
> 
> If he loses, he gets knocked out of top 3 ranked heavyweights and JDS looks that much more amazing.
> 
> ...


I think it's win/lose.

If he loses he loses. That is a given regardless.

If he wins, people will forgive and forget. He'll be on his way to being the most dominate HW across organisations in all of MMA history.

Remember Chael Sonnen? People still look to him as a paragon of Anderson Silva destruction. And he tested higher than Overeem.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 12, 2012)

Sonnen didn't win the belt though. If Sonnen tested positive AND had the belt, he would look like "dirty" champ in my opinion to the mma community.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 12, 2012)

Yeah he did. He's the champion.


----------



## eHav (Apr 12, 2012)

Kuya said:


> So we have to wait till April 24th to know if Overeem gets the license or not?
> 
> JDS deserves more time than just a month to figure out who is opponent is going to be .



JDS probabbly doesnt care much really. he can stand with anyone, and he has a strong takedown defence aswell, from preparing for the likes of cain.. so i bet he wont mind, he will keep being good at what he does


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 13, 2012)

I really hope Overeem gets his license and then gets knocked out by JDS.


----------



## Heavenly King (Apr 13, 2012)




----------



## Sasuke (Apr 14, 2012)

> *Brian ‏ @FrontRowBrian
> 
> Gonna be interesting when @Alistairovereem shows up with BLOOD tests to show his TOTAL Testosterone was in normal range.
> 
> ...



This guy has broken a bunch of MMA news in the past way before the media. I think this would be the first time he's wrong, so I believe it. I knew it was odd how the UFC had stayed pretty quiet.

So it's looking very likely JDS still gets stomped in May.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 14, 2012)

Pfft, what a farce. Anyways, JDS will still probably have a slight edge.


----------



## eHav (Apr 14, 2012)

damn so many jones vs rashad commercials on this event -.-


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 14, 2012)

The Sweden card tonight was great. Lot of great fights.


----------



## Heavenly King (Apr 14, 2012)

K.o win by my team mate


----------



## Matariki (Apr 15, 2012)




----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 16, 2012)

Mark's army of doom or whatever is pretty huge. 

I signed up for Twitter in order to stalk him. I have found out two things:

1) Twitter is mad gay.
2) Mark Hunt tweets a fucking ton. And it's all obscene.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 16, 2012)

you should follow all the stars in MMA


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 16, 2012)

I really don't understand this fucking Twitter shit.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 16, 2012)

i'm gonna start using twitter once i upgrade my phone. i want dana white to talk shit to me.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 16, 2012)

You can twitter on the Internet, bro. It's easier that way.

I'm calling Dana a cuntfaced fatty.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 16, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> You can twitter on the Internet, bro. It's easier that way.
> 
> I'm calling Dana a cuntfaced fatty.



That's fucking illegal.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 16, 2012)




----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 16, 2012)

Hey Mark Hunt replied to my twitter thing. I can die a happy man now.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 16, 2012)

lol did he? that's awesome


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 16, 2012)

Yeah, the Super Samoan and I are tight, yo.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 16, 2012)

For someone that don't say shit in pressers or post fight interviews that guy sure talks to an unbelievable amount of twitter followers.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 17, 2012)

Just watched the main event from the UFC Fuel event this Saturday Silva vs. Gustaffson. Both fighters looked really really good.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Gustaffson really impressed me. This is only the 2nd fight I've seen from him. This dude has a LEGIT shot at taking the belt from Jones or at least forcing a decision. He's basically just a white boy version. I predict that they are going to fight VERY VERY soon. At least by the end of next year. I would bet on him against Shogun, Rampage, Evans and maybe even Machida. This kid is good.


----------



## Aokiji (Apr 17, 2012)

Mindboggling how Reem tards still maintain his innocence. Like him being a cheater is somehow up for debate still.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 17, 2012)

Fuck you Dana


----------



## Aokiji (Apr 17, 2012)

He's right. 

Tbh you could give him that top 5 opponent right now. No way he deserves a title shot though, even though I wouldn't mind seeing it.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 17, 2012)

He is right, but still


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 17, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> For someone that don't say shit in pressers or post fight interviews that guy sure talks to an unbelievable amount of twitter followers.


Yeah, I got the impression that he was a silent buy witty guy from his press conferences.

His Twitter is something to behold. He posts 500 times a day and it's all the most ridiculous stuff.


Kuya said:


> Fuck you Dana



Army of Doom will not rest.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 17, 2012)

I was really rooting for Thiago Silva. But, Gustaffson did look really good but I don't see him doing much against Jones.

Also, Dana might be a total dick, but for someone to say he doesn't do anything for the fans... C'mon son. They put on tons of great fights, but without money there would be no UFC. No casual fan gives a shit about a fat old dude fighting JDS.

Also, a lot of the people crying about it don't even pay to watch the fights. I mean, I don't, but I'm not sitting on twitter talking shit because an 8-7 guy isn't being gifted a title shot.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 17, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> I was really rooting for Thiago Silva. But, Gustaffson did look really good but I don't see him doing much against Jones.



- I was rooting for Silva too cuz I guess I like "mean" fighters and have only seen Gustaff fight once before this fight. Gustaffson looked good and I'd put money on Jones as of now, but in about a year or so I think Gustaff will be ready. I think he's already in the top 10 in the division and is gonna start fighting the top tier guys like Shogun or Machida.



> No casual fan gives a shit about a fat old dude fighting JDS.



Just the stand-up match was really appealing. There would be very little wrestling in that match (unless JDS wanted to expose Hunts weakness). Either way, JDS would be like a 15-1 favorite in my opinion.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 17, 2012)

Kuya said:


> - I was rooting for Silva too cuz I guess I like "mean" fighters and have only seen Gustaff fight once before this fight. Gustaffson looked good and I'd put money on Jones as of now, but in about a year or so I think Gustaff will be ready. I think he's already in the top 10 in the division and is gonna start fighting the top tier guys like Shogun or Machida.
> 
> 
> 
> Just the stand-up match was really appealing. There would be very little wrestling in that match (unless JDS wanted to expose Hunts weakness). Either way, JDS would be like a 15-1 favorite in my opinion.



Silva isn't just mean, the guy is tough. His dad beat him when he was a kid so he ran away and lived on the streets and started training. Seeing him knockout Houston ruled. And yeah, I agree, Gustaffson is good, but I dunno how his ground game would match up with a guy like Jones. After all, his lone loss was to Phil Davis by submission.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 17, 2012)

True that, I'm not really well-informed on Gustaff's ground game.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 17, 2012)

Jones would submit him. 

But the striking game could be interesting. Gustaffson has some good striking and decent range.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 17, 2012)

Yeah I barely knew about the guy, I've just liked Thiago for a while even though he used a different species'  urine  (that did disappoint me though)

I just wanted to see T. Silva's comeback fight, but man he couldn't do anything. Gustaffon looked so comfortable the entire fight.


Also, I realize it's custom in some places in Europe, but at the end of the fight, Silva went to shake Gustaff's hand, and then Gustaff pulled him in for a hug and then kissed Silva on the cheek. That was totally fine. But then after the hug, Silva turns his back to walk back to his corner, and then Gustaffson puts his arms around Silva again and hugs him from the back like doggy-style, lingers for like 2 seconds like a gay lover with his head resting on Silva's shoulder and then kisses him again on the cheek.

I was really stoned and replayed that scene like 3 times cuz it seemed a little gay and it was just funny cuz how manly Tiago Silva is.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 17, 2012)

There's no real excuse for using PEDs, but I can see where he's coming from. I figured he'd lose, though. Maybe have him fight Lil Nog or Rich Franklin?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 17, 2012)

Kuya said:


> Yeah I barely knew about the guy, I've just liked Thiago for a while even though he used a different species'  urine  (that did disappoint me though)
> 
> I just wanted to see T. Silva's comeback fight, but man he couldn't do anything. Gustaffon looked so comfortable the entire fight.
> 
> ...


What the fuck?!?



I haven't watched that fight yet, but now I have to. Just for the post-fight antics.


The Fireball Kid said:


> There's no real excuse for using PEDs, but I can see where he's coming from. I figured he'd lose, though. Maybe have him fight Lil Nog or Rich Franklin?


Well he had a back injury and it helps heal faster. If someone told me that I would get on the drugs ASAP.

However, as a professional where that stuff is strictly off-limits, you have to be prepared to face the consequences. It may have hurt him more than it helped in the long run.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 17, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> What the fuck?!?
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't watched that fight yet, but now I have to. Just for the post-fight antics.



It was a good 3-round fight. I'm just saying, as an American, Gustaffson seemed just a "little gay" after the fight, but that just might be the Swedish way. And no I'm not homophobic whatsoever.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 17, 2012)

Sounds a bit gay. I don't remember him ever doing that before, but it could have been that typical "oh we were in a war, let's hug it out" thing that a lot of fighters do.

But Silva didn't want none of it. So Gustaf tried to force it. Borderline rape.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 17, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Sounds a bit gay. I don't remember him ever doing that before, but it could have been that typical "oh we were in a war, let's hug it out" thing that a lot of fighters do.
> 
> But Silva didn't want none of it. So Gustaf tried to force it. Borderline rape.



I like humbleness from professional athletes so I appreciated the first hug. The 2nd hug I wasn't trying to mind as much cuz I was like cool Gustaff is a nice guy, but after replaying a couple times and seeing him rest his head on Silva's shoulder from behind then kissing him a 2nd time, it was kinda gay i'm not gonna lie.

i just did a quick "Bing.com" image search "gay hug from behind" and this popped up



^^^the hug was like that, but kinda gayer


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 17, 2012)

Kuya said:


> Yeah I barely knew about the guy, I've just liked Thiago for a while even though he used a different species'  urine  (that did disappoint me though)


 Non-human urine is the blanket term used for urine that has been tampered with. It might actually have come from a person.



CrazyMoronX said:


> Sounds a bit gay. I don't remember him ever doing that before, but it could have been that typical "oh we were in a war, let's hug it out" thing that a lot of fighters do.
> 
> But Silva didn't want none of it. So Gustaf tried to force it. Borderline rape.


Feast your eyes, children:


----------



## Kuya (Apr 17, 2012)

lol thanks for the GIF!!!!!! 

i was trying to explain it as easily as possible w/ words

Just remember, there was a handshake and hug that happened before everything shown in that gif. So that was the *2nd* hug and kiss.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 18, 2012)

Damn.

Couple of bros, hugging it out.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 18, 2012)

Plenty of Brazilian fighters kiss their cornermen, I see it all the time.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 18, 2012)

Canon: Brazil is gay.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 18, 2012)

yeah i've seen the kisses and hugs before, i just haven't seen one that affectionate.

either way, gustaff is a beast and i'm gonna start following his mma career from now on.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 18, 2012)

I have had my eye on him since the his last two fights. He's picking up some steam for sure.


----------



## Almondsand (Apr 18, 2012)

Anyway enough of the homo talk..

Jones vs Evans.. Should be a very fucking good fight.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 18, 2012)

Yeah, I wish it was already Friday.

I say Friday because I want to enjoy my weekend.


But I got Jones winning by vicious smashing. I kinda want Shad to win though. Just because.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 18, 2012)

I think Rashad has less of a chance to win than Machida did.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 18, 2012)

Kuya said:


> I think Rashad has less of a chance to win than Machida did.



I disagree. I gave Machida a 30% chance of beating Jones, I'll give Rashad at least 50%. Jones does a lot of fancy stuff on the feet, and definitely he is starting to get more refined with his striking, but I feel his most reliable tool is still his wrestling. Once he's on the ground he goes for submissions and nasty ground and pound quickly, but if he can't put Rashad on his back consistently I think Rashad has a good chance of controlling the fight.

Still, based on some of the shots that Jones took from Machida I'm not sure Rashad is going to be able to t/ko Jones even in 5 rounds-- and he's also not much of a submission guy. So, a close (and knowing the judges, a controversial) decision seems likely to me.


----------



## Aokiji (Apr 19, 2012)

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with what Gustaffson did, and I'm not even not homophobic.


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm more excited about Brendan Schaub, Marcus Brimage, Anthony Njokuani, Stephen Thompson, Travis Browne, Michael McDonald and Rory MacDonald fighting than I am JBJ or Rashad.

Rashad and JBJ got a little too jerry springer'ish for my tastes.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 19, 2012)

I am looking forward to Wonderboy's fight.

But JBJ/Rashad is where it's at for me.


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 19, 2012)

Everytime I see JBJ or Rashad talking about their fight..  

JBJ is saying things like...  "_My MMA career is such an insignificant thing within the grand scheme of things..  MMA is only a small part of my legacy.  I believe I am the greatest of all time, like Mohammad Ali did & I follow his example_."

And, Rashad is saying things like...  "_No, no, no.  You have to be more humble.  You can't do that.  You can't say those things.  That's not right.  Remember that one day in training I dominated you & you couldn't get back up?_"

I want them to fight already and get it over with so I don't have to listen to them talk about it anymore...  :WOW


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 19, 2012)

JBJ is the Mohammad Ali of MMA.


----------



## Federer (Apr 19, 2012)

Rashad is the clear favorite, he's gonna GOAT.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 19, 2012)

Rashad can win, but the chances are slim.

I give Machida a much better shot in a rematch than I do Rashad.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 19, 2012)

I just don't see how Rashad is gonna beat him. He had trouble with the awkward style of Machida. JBJ is 10x more awkward and arguably stronger, faster and has way more finishing ability.

We'll just have to see.


----------



## Lebron Flocka James (Apr 19, 2012)

*I bet money of Rashad. I hate bone with a passion.................*


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 19, 2012)

Blackzilians train out of Imperial Athletics.  Basically, the same gym Roy Jones Jr. trains at.    Since Rashad moved there he's been training boxing with Roy Jones.  

For the JBJ fight he's also been training with Estima Braulio and other big names I can't remember, right now.  I think Rashad improved a lot even if it didn't show much in the Phil Davis or Tito fights.

I still say Rashad's main issue will be dealing with JBJ's 9-10 inch reach advantage.

Rashad will need to come forward to get in range.  Coming forward opens him up to being taken down.  He could walk into a punch or kick.

It looked like Rashad had a hard time getting inside against Phil Davis.  

It'll be interesting to see what he can do against JBJ.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 19, 2012)

Yeah, the Phil Davis fight didn't put a lot of faith into Rashad's chances for me.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 19, 2012)

Lebron Flocka James said:


> *I bet money of Rashad. I hate bone with a passion.................*



how much did you bet? and what are the odds?


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 19, 2012)

Rashad is a 4 to 1 underdog.

Different bookies offer different odds.

Some have Rashad a 6 to 1 underdog, iirc.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 19, 2012)

4 to 1 isn't too bad actually.


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 19, 2012)

Lebron Flocka James said:


> *I bet money of Rashad. I hate bone with a passion.................*





Didn't see that coming..  :WOW

...

ufc 145 primetime

its really good-


----------



## Lebron Flocka James (Apr 19, 2012)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Didn't see that coming..  :WOW
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 19, 2012)

Hmmm, were I the betting type I would probably put some money on Evans. I think his chances of winning are certainly better than 4 to 1.

See my breakdown for details 


EDIT: To whoever brought up Machida, Rashad never tried to wrestle Machida. I think he knows if he plays the same game he did against Machida on Jon that he is going to lose.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 19, 2012)

yup, wrestling is his best chance, but Jones ground game is up there as well


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 19, 2012)

Jones keeps talking about how he trains from his back, but I seriously doubt he can submit Rashad from the guard. Rashad is just too experienced at beating the shit out of people from the guard to get caught by any LHW in the UFC. Plus, I gotta be thinking those takedowns are going to be slow in coming-- so, that leaves maybe 2-3 minutes to get a submission. You really got to be an experienced killer like a Maia to have the confidence to just go for something when someone's in your guard.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 20, 2012)

I wouldn't say he can't submit Rashad. Rashad hasn't fought anyone with that triangle potential. 

Unlikely though.

This fight will be very interesting. Jones throws everyone he fights around like dolls. I am interested to see what Rashad has for him.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 21, 2012)

Aoki lost.


----------



## Shozan (Apr 21, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Aoki lost.



that's a bummer! 

hope this make it up a lil'

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F2EkyTOv9w[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Kuya (Apr 21, 2012)

well....

Mir vs. JDS it is.


----------



## martryn (Apr 21, 2012)

First time to actually order the PPV.  Usually head to the bar to watch the big fights.  Making nachos!  Having money is awesome.


----------



## Sasuke (Apr 21, 2012)

Rootin' for Rashad. 

JDS vs Mir ZzZzZ

Oh well, if Reem does get suspended for a year or something, I'm hoping Hunt can string together a couple more wins and get a shot.


----------



## Lebron Flocka James (Apr 21, 2012)

*LOL at ppv.................


Something called See my breakdown*


----------



## Teach (Apr 21, 2012)

JDS vs Mir? Not gonna watch that Dana

Jones will destroy Rashad.


----------



## Sasuke (Apr 21, 2012)

_Nelson _vs Velasquez supposedly, number one contender decider.

lol wut


----------



## Arishem (Apr 21, 2012)

Fuck, I got called in to cover a sick coworker. Guess I'll have to watch it on the webLife is so unfair.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 21, 2012)

Sasuke said:


> _Nelson _vs Velasquez supposedly, number one contender decider.
> 
> lol wut



I'm pretty sure fatboy is trolling. Velasquez vs Bigfoot was what I heard was the new match up.


----------



## Lebron Flocka James (Apr 21, 2012)

*Prelims fight was good............*


----------



## martryn (Apr 21, 2012)

Calling them now:
Bocek
Hominick
Torres
Rothwell
MacDonald
Jones

Wishing for a different result for the last two fights, but I'm not kidding myself.


----------



## martryn (Apr 21, 2012)

I think Hominick was robbed.  If the fight lasted another minute, Yagin would be out.


----------



## eHav (Apr 21, 2012)

lol ur predictions arent turning out so well


----------



## Lebron Flocka James (Apr 21, 2012)

martryn said:


> I think Hominick was robbed.  If the fight lasted another minute, Yagin would be out.



*You crazy Yagin beat him 2 rounds to 1.

Hominick was a dickhead not to take yagin down.......*


----------



## eHav (Apr 21, 2012)

LOL schaub


----------



## Lebron Flocka James (Apr 21, 2012)

*Crazy fight...........*


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 21, 2012)

lol...Rothwell is on roids


----------



## Lebron Flocka James (Apr 21, 2012)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> lol...Rothwell is on roids



*Fuck no you see his bf% he like 24% body fat............*


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 21, 2012)

Yeah...and he used to be 42% body fat.


----------



## Lebron Flocka James (Apr 21, 2012)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Yeah...and he used to be 42% body fat.



*He and fat wade would be good friends.........*


----------



## martryn (Apr 21, 2012)

> lol ur predictions arent turning out so well



Hominick had that fight.  If that was a five round fight, that shit would have been different.  He landed more blows, and you could tell Yagin was fading fast.  He lost the second round because of the blow that knocked him down, but that was a punch he blocked and didn't hurt him.  



> Hominick was a dickhead not to take yagin down.......



Hominick's stand-up is awesome.  No reason to take him down.  He was winning the stand-up fight after Yagin exhausted himself.  He just didn't win it fast enough. 

And Rothwell is making it better.


----------



## Lebron Flocka James (Apr 21, 2012)

*Strong walk out song old school biggie..........*


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 21, 2012)

Alright, I think MacDonald's got this. I can't back a dude who's nickname is "Beautiful".


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 21, 2012)

Mills getting fucked up.


----------



## Lebron Flocka James (Apr 21, 2012)

*He got raped...........*


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 21, 2012)

MacDonald straight up destroyed him. Knew Mills wasn't winning with that "Beautiful" shit.


----------



## Lebron Flocka James (Apr 21, 2012)

*Okay boys i need Bones to win so i can get this 200 bucks.

*


----------



## eHav (Apr 21, 2012)

i like both too much i want a god damn draw


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 21, 2012)

Bones is gonna regulate on this mofo.


----------



## Lebron Flocka James (Apr 21, 2012)

*The champ is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.*


----------



## eHav (Apr 22, 2012)

its on

jon looks serious as hell


----------



## eHav (Apr 22, 2012)

hahahaha rashad just taunted the hell out of jones amazing

only to get elbowed in the face a bunch of times. jones is crazy


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 22, 2012)

THROW DEM BOWS!!!


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 22, 2012)

He just tossed Evans' ass down like a bitch right there.


----------



## martryn (Apr 22, 2012)

A little bit sad showing for Rashad.  Really thought he'd bring... something.


----------



## eHav (Apr 22, 2012)

so, who's next? hendo?


----------



## Sasuke (Apr 22, 2012)

Disappointing indeed. Oh well, on to the next one. Go Hendo.


----------



## martryn (Apr 22, 2012)

Machida deserves a second go.  He was closer to beating Jones than Evans was. 

Hendo first, though.


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 22, 2012)

Hendo would get worked. Ain't landing any H-bombs on Bones and his 234902384 foot reach advantage.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 22, 2012)

martryn said:


> Machida deserves a second go.  He was closer to beating Jones than Evans was.
> 
> Hendo first, though.



Two things:
The UFC would never be able to hype that
Machida is moving to MW anyways


Rashad landed some good shots... He took a bit off the lifespan of Jones' chin for sure. 

I think Sponge said it best... "DON'T BACK UP, RASHAD! RASHAD, DON'T BACK UP!"


----------



## Aokiji (Apr 22, 2012)

Jones is still the most overrated fighter in the world. COME AT ME BRO.

Honestly, i wonder why people are so butthurt when people attribute most of his success to his length. Many fighters not named Jones have had that happened to him (Lewis, Klitschkos, Schilt) 

I think he is the LHW GOAT now (embarrassing for anyone to let a 24 year old guy become the best ever in the division ) but the reason isn't tough to guess (see my paragraph above) 

Also if anyone still thinks that Anderson is P4P no, they derserve to be smacked in the face.

Wonder why Rashad didn't focus on TDs.


----------



## Gaja (Apr 22, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> Two things:
> The UFC would never be able to hype that
> Machida is moving to MW anyways



I fully agree, especially after Jones handled him in that final round, leaving him face down on the mat. I wouldn't wanna see that again.

And on that note, had no idea Machida was moving down, quite interested to see if he can make weight. He seems like he's a little to big of a dude for 185 IMO but we'll see.



> Rashad landed some good shots... He took a bit off the lifespan of Jones' chin for sure.
> 
> I think Sponge said it best... "DON'T BACK UP, RASHAD! RASHAD, DON'T BACK UP!"



He did land some good shots, he was a dangerous contender, but I don't know if I'd agree that he took some lifespan of Jones, he hit him, but looking at the whole fight his high kick in the 1st was probably his best shot.

Though you can't blame the guy, fighting someone who's got such a reach advantage on him, probably getting tired in the later rounds, which Jones remained fresh even in the 5th round, what could he have done. He rarely threw leg kicks, the few TD's he tried were stuffed and he himself got tossed around in the 5th round (though in all fairness he got right back up).

So IMO to sum it up, a fight I really wanted to see, glad I didn't fall asleep here in sunny Europe. 
But in the end the hype is justified, Jones won pretty clearly. I wonder if Hendo will manage to do more against Jones, and if not. What then? 

Gustafson?


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 22, 2012)

Rashad went for a couple takedowns and got stuffed pretty easily.


----------



## Aokiji (Apr 22, 2012)

> I fully agree, especially after Jones handled him in that final round, leaving him face down on the mat. I wouldn't wanna see that again.



Sometimes I wonder if people are fucking retarded.

It wasn't the final round and whether or not Machida was unconscious is as irrelevant as it gets. It doesn't matter how the fight ends, it matters how it went. There is this moronic notion that a fighter is "destroying" another if his opponent was unconscious at the end. The same people probably believe that Mir's victory over Nog was dominant since his arm snapped or that Kongo "demolished" Barry.

The only reason why Machida was out at the end of a fight was because he chose to be. He could've tapped and then no one would've been able to use that argument. 

If he can build up a win streak, and Jones is still a LHW, a rematch would make sense. Only a dipshit would say that Jones dominated Machida.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Rashad went for a couple takedowns and got stuffed pretty easily.



What's your point?


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 22, 2012)

I was answering your question why Rashad didn't try for more takedowns, but yeah...I guess it's pointless to argue with you.


----------



## Gaja (Apr 22, 2012)

Aokiji said:


> Sometimes I wonder if people are fucking retarded.
> 
> It wasn't the final round and whether or not Machida was unconscious is as irrelevant as it gets. It doesn't matter how the fight ends, it matters how it went. There is this moronic notion that a fighter is "destroying" another if his opponent was unconscious at the end. The same people probably believe that Mir's victory over Nog was dominant since his arm snapped or that Kongo "demolished" Barry.
> 
> ...



Oh my, someone's aggressive. 

Well good sir, what I think was that Machida was certainly a fighter worthy of a title shot even if he lost 2 out of his last 3, though the Rampage fight is a bit arguable but whatever. Looking at him, I really do respect his skills, he's fast as fuck, precise with his strikes on his entry, he takes little damage, BJJ black belt and in my opinion one of the trickiest dudes to prepare for. Really a spooky 205 pound fighter, and in that first round he punched Jones, I'm not denying that.

And in all honesty he was doing much better then Bonnar, Hammil, Vera, Bader, Shogun and Rampage were doing against Jones. But let's be fair and say it, once Jones took him down, that was the beginning of the end really. Once those elbows started coming down I thought that maybe Machida would manage to get away, but we all saw that that wasn't the case. The problem there is Jones' height and overall frame. He can grab those standing chokes while other fighters of Rashad's side (who is 5'11'') can't. I never said that Jones dominated, but what he did was beat Machida decisively. 

Also you should know that Hendo knocked Michael Bisping the fuck out at UFC 100, and it was just because the nature of the finish was so decisive that I said that I wouldn't want to see that. Seeing people get choked and knocked out unconscious like that is a thing I hate simply because of the (possible?) damage it does to you, Sam Stout KOing Eves Edwards is another perfect example. 

Also how does not-taping benefit him in any way now?

I mean Machida lost, and that's that. If he becomes the #1 contender once again I would gladly watch and see if things would be different, I'm a fan of the sport above all else and I think Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey and Daniel Cormier are the three fighters that will draw a lot more attention to themselves in the future.

Also you are right in one thing, it isn't just the finish that's important. I fully agree with that, it's like with Sonnen and Anderson. Saying 'oh yeah Anderson won', but that's not the all there is to it and I think we're all aware of that. As is the case with Jones and Machida.



Arishem said:


> *Spoiler*: __



Sorry Brendan, but that's just funny. 

+rep


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 22, 2012)

Gaja said:


> I fully agree, especially after Jones handled him in that final round, leaving him face down on the mat. I wouldn't wanna see that again.
> 
> And on that note, had no idea Machida was moving down, quite interested to see if he can make weight. He seems like he's a little to big of a dude for 185 IMO but we'll see.


 I don't think the cut will be that crazy. Look at Okami... Fuck that, look at Rumble Johnson. There are plenty of guys that cut weight a lot more aggressively than Machida.



> He did land some good shots, he was a dangerous contender, but I don't know if I'd agree that he took some lifespan of Jones, he hit him, but looking at the whole fight his high kick in the 1st was probably his best shot.


 Getting dinged takes a long time to catch up to you, but it always does. Although, if Jones is staying unharmed in his day to day training I don't think getting hit by Lyoto and Rashad by itself is going to be enough to be a big problem. It's more about an accumulation over years.



> So IMO to sum it up, a fight I really wanted to see, glad I didn't fall asleep here in sunny Europe.
> But in the end the hype is justified, Jones won pretty clearly. I wonder if Hendo will manage to do more against Jones, and if not. What then?


I thought Jones brought something interesting up in the post-fight presser. He mentioned that his hardest fight to date was his fight with Stephan Bonnar. Basically, like a lot of long ranged guys, he has big problems with tough, gritty fighters that just keep coming at you. The bigger problem is that everyone that has tried to pressure Jones got taken down.

In that regard, I think Hendo's chances are probably the same as Rashad's. If he were 10 years younger it would be different... but, as far as new talent out there right now that could challenge Jones I don't see it. Gustaffson is another long ranged fighter that is talented, but he doesn't have the grappling yet. Phil Davis was looking good until Rashad man handled him. 

There might be a few guys from HW that if they could somehow make the weight might be able to beat Jones, but other than that I think Jones is in the clear for a while now. The only former LHW champion that's active that he hasn't beaten yet is Griffin.


----------



## martryn (Apr 22, 2012)

> Two things:
> The UFC would never be able to hype that
> Machida is moving to MW anyways



Exciting times!  I hadn't heard about cutting to middleweight yet.


----------



## Gaja (Apr 22, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> I don't think the cut will be that crazy. Look at Okami... Fuck that, look at Rumble Johnson. There are plenty of guys that cut weight a lot more aggressively than Machida.



True true, I just assumed since he's about the size of Shogun that he might have trouble getting down to 185, but Chael cuts down from 217, so it should be doable. Good thinking about Okami. 



> Getting dinged takes a long time to catch up to you, but it always does. Although, if Jones is staying unharmed in his day to day training I don't think getting hit by Lyoto and Rashad by itself is going to be enough to be a big problem. It's more about an accumulation over years.



It always does. I would assume that Jones doesn't get hit to often, because of his range. But after seeing Guilard get KTFO by Condit in that video who knows...



> I thought Jones brought something interesting up in the post-fight presser. He mentioned that his hardest fight to date was his fight with Stephan Bonnar. Basically, like a lot of long ranged guys, he has big problems with tough, gritty fighters that just keep coming at you. The bigger problem is that everyone that has tried to pressure Jones got taken down.
> 
> In that regard, I think Hendo's chances are probably the same as Rashad's. If he were 10 years younger it would be different... but, as far as new talent out there right now that could challenge Jones I don't see it. Gustaffson is another long ranged fighter that is talented, but he doesn't have the grappling yet. Phil Davis was looking good until Rashad man handled him.



I think Jones vs Hendo will go either like Jones vs Evans, or Jones vs Rampage. Hendo's only real weakness are the submissions IMO. Though he didn't have problems with that lately, just throwing it out there since he Jones has good subs.

But yeah, I see Gustaffson taking a beating too... So that leaves Griffin...



> There might be a few guys from HW that if they could somehow make the weight might be able to beat Jones, but other than that I think Jones is in the clear for a while now. The only former LHW champion that's active that he hasn't beaten yet is Griffin.



Which HW do you have in mind?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 22, 2012)

Well, the ones that could definitely make LHW from a cutting perspective in my mind are Roy Nelson and Fedor. Those guys have an outside chance at giving Jones a decent fight just because they both hit like trucks and have iron chins-- they also both have decent take down defense, although that's hard to gauge because everyone they fight has a tremendous size advantage.

I also think Velasquez miiiiiiiiight be able to do it but that would be pushing it. And if Overeem were to drop the shitloads of muscle he packed on with roids he could probably also get back down to 205.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Apr 22, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> The only former LHW champion that's active that he hasn't beaten yet is Griffin.



Tito has one more fight, if I recall correctly .


----------



## Matariki (Apr 22, 2012)

Velasquez vs. 'Big Foot' Silva set for May 26th

Hm


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 22, 2012)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> Tito has one more fight, if I recall correctly .



Tito? Michael Jackson's brother? 





Ok, maybe I forgot about him. Incidentally, I believe his last fight is against Griffin.


----------



## Teach (Apr 23, 2012)

OH GOD  WHO MADE THESE? SHERTARDS?


----------



## Ippy (Apr 23, 2012)

I can't wait to see Rory Mac vs. Condit again.  I'd also wonder if Mac would be down to fight GSP in the future.  He's a killer.

No shame on Che Mills though.  He's a good fighter that could easily make a comeback. 

People keep talking about Jones going to HW, but I honestly think he should stay @ LHW for a while longer and cement his legacy.

He should fight at least Hendo and Gustaffson next.





martryn said:


> Machida deserves a second go.  He was closer to beating Jones than Evans was.
> 
> Hendo first, though.



Machida "deserves" shit for _losing _the first round (yes, you read that right), then getting finished in the second.

TBH, Hendo isn't going to do much better.  Yes, Hendo has the H-Bomb, but Saturday proved that Jones can take a shot, Hendo is far too predictable to even get many opportunities to land it, Hendo has poor TDD for a wrestler, Jones can take pretty much anyone down at will, and Jones is too unpredictable, fast, and varied in his attack to have trouble taking him out.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 23, 2012)

Damn, I'm glad Schaub got knocked out. 


That was a solid card except the main event was kinda disappointing. I was also sad that Wonderboy got so thoroughly smashed by Brown, but damn if his hands weren't pretty good. Accurate, fast, powerful. If he only had a ground game and endurance he'd really be something. 


Then the main event. Rashad just didn't have anything. He did wobble Bones, but he was never close to winning.

Now Hendo is next. I see Jones winning that one as well, but Hendo is incredibly difficult to finish. Maybe submission.


----------



## Matariki (Apr 23, 2012)

Overeem blames anti-inflammatory medication, says he is a clean fighter.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 23, 2012)

So I think it will be Hendo next, then Jones wins. Then Davis and Gustaffson fight each other to see who fights Jones after that.

Possible Machda vs. Jones II after Hendo if there's a Gustaffson vs. Machida fight instead of Davis.

Also who is Roy Nelson going to fight now??? Too early for Rothwell? Maybe Browne?

BJ Penn is not retired 
Berlusconi


----------



## Heavenly King (Apr 23, 2012)

Seiko said:


> Overeem blames anti-inflammatory medication, says he is a clean fighter.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 23, 2012)

Nelson is fighting Cain for #1 contender.  Supposedly. I don't think that is official yet, but he said that on his Twitter anyway.


Anti-inflammatory drugs make your testosterone 14x higher than normal?  I need to get some of that.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 23, 2012)

Nope Cain Velasquez vs. Bigfoot Silva, Dana announced it. He hasn't announced if Roy Nelson is getting a new opponent yet. I know I'm bias because I live in Hawaii, but I want the undefeated Travis Browne to fight Nelson. It's just a clash of heavy hands right there.


----------



## jNdee~ (Apr 23, 2012)

Guys who do ya think will face Jon Jones next?


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 23, 2012)

jNdee said:


> Guys who do ya think will face Jon Jones next?



It's gonna be Hendo barring any injuries or complications.

EDIT: Nelson facing Gonzaga, fuck that's a tough fight for Gonzaga...


----------



## jNdee~ (Apr 24, 2012)

I hope Jones and Silva will fight at the same weight class. But probably just a dream though.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 24, 2012)

Kuya said:


> Nope Cain Velasquez vs. Bigfoot Silva, Dana announced it. He hasn't announced if Roy Nelson is getting a new opponent yet. I know I'm bias because I live in Hawaii, but I want the undefeated Travis Browne to fight Nelson. It's just a clash of heavy hands right there.


Well Bigfoot isn't my first choice either. I don't like Bigfoot at all. 


Gallic Rush said:


> It's gonna be Hendo barring any injuries or complications.
> 
> EDIT: Nelson facing Gonzaga, fuck that's a tough fight for Gonzaga...



Gonzaga? He lost the fight the minute he picked up the phone and it was Joe Silva.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 24, 2012)

Hendo doesn't offer anything new to Jones. He's already fought three wrestlers with heavy hands. Rampage, Rashad and Bader. It's not like Hendo brings anything new to the table, other than the fact his chin is rock solid.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 24, 2012)

Hendo hits harder than everyone else, has a better chin, has better wrestling, and has more will to get in there and play his game.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 24, 2012)

Rashad is the better MMA wrestler, has more technical and versatile striking and is also a lot faster than Hendo.

I don't see Hendo taking down Bones and while I think he's got the power to put away virtually anyone, I think Bones is too elusive and too smart to allow himself to get caught. I expect a match of Hendo winging the over hand right while Jones uses his reach to keep distance.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 24, 2012)

True, but I still think Hendo has that small chance of landing and knocking him out.

He isn't as fast as Machida or Rashad, but he is willing to take incredible risks to get in there and land with the chin to survive.

Grown game is going to be moot anyway until Jones takes Hendo down to choke him out.


----------



## The Fireball Kid (Apr 24, 2012)

If Jones beats Hendo, he will have beaten 4 former UFC champions and the former 2-division champion of Pride. All in only 5 fights.


----------



## Sasuke (Apr 24, 2012)

So Reems hearing is being streamed live, I'm not watching it but apparently they're tearing him a new one. Supposedly he tried to drive away from the event when he heard about the random test. 

Hard to defend that. Hope he gets to fight again in under a year though.


----------



## Matariki (Apr 24, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_miaoujma8[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 24, 2012)

The Fireball Kid said:


> If Jones beats Hendo, he will have beaten 4 former UFC champions and the former 2-division champion of Pride. All in only 5 fights.


And people will still hate him.

He's arrogant, you know?

I think after he smashes Hendo he should just move up to HW. I mean, who is left at LHW really? Gustafsson? A bunch of rematches? Forrest Griffin? 




Sasuke said:


> So Reems hearing is being streamed live, I'm not watching it but apparently they're tearing him a new one. Supposedly he tried to drive away from the event when he heard about the random test.
> 
> Hard to defend that. Hope he gets to fight again in under a year though.



I am watching it. Low voice levels, lot of echos, very difficult to understand what the fuck they are saying at all.

Virtually a non-event.

Right now there is talks of delaying the decision until May 15th or something. All this for nothing. 


Seiko said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_miaoujma8[/YOUTUBE]


Chael looks scared.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 24, 2012)

From what I understand, Reem already knew random testing was coming because it was a stipulation for missing one of his pre-fight screenings for the Lesnar bout. Somehow he still fucked it up, and to top it off he tried to run away at the presser when he realized they were collecting urine samples from all the fighters.



On another note, I have been hearing Hector Lombard has been offered a UFC contract... anyone else interested in this?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 25, 2012)

Overeem is a clean fighter.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 25, 2012)

Indeed. He showers before and after each training session.

Incidentally, he showers in testosterone.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 25, 2012)

But he doesn't know the water has testosterone in it. It was just imported from from the WWE by his doctor without his knowledge.

Sure it's $50/liter, but he thought that was regular American pricing.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 25, 2012)

Dana White this past weekend "I recently talked to BJ Penn and he said "I want to fight again." 

Frankie Edgar admittedly said he'll eventually be moving down a weight class. If he loses his rematch against Ben Henderson, I think that will be his last fight at the division. Then he'll fight whoever below to become the #1 contender to take on Jose Aldo.

With Edgar out, Penn can come back and fight 1 or 2 fights to try and be in contention to fight Ben Hendo for the belt again. A lot of foreshadowing seems like the fights next year are going to be


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 25, 2012)

Well I want Frankie to win either way. Super fight with Aldo some day.

Then BJ Penn can come back and get beat up again.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 25, 2012)

I don't think Frankie has the tools to beat Ben Henderson honestly.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 25, 2012)

Wrestefuck!!


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 25, 2012)

I actually think the first fight was closer than most people do, and I also think Edgar has more room to make adjustments to improve on in a rematch.

Well, I guess we'll find out eventually anyways.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 25, 2012)

I've just been a Ben Henderson fan since WEC and I don't see any weaknesses with that dude and he's still improving. Frankie is the man and I love how he throws his heart in the ring, but if your opponent has the same level as skill and athleticism as you, your physical attributes come into play.

Frankie is really really small for that division and he wasn't going to stay champ for very long. If he takes the belt from Aldo, he can reign as champ down there for a while since he won't be under-sized in his fights.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 25, 2012)

I thought Frankie could have taken the decision myself. 

He just needs to work for more takedowns to score points.


----------



## Kuya (Apr 25, 2012)

It seemed kinda close, but Henderson just looked so comfortable and was in control. I think it definitely should have went to him.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 25, 2012)

Kuya said:


> I've just been a Ben Henderson fan since WEC and I don't see any weaknesses with that dude and he's still improving. Frankie is the man and I love how he throws his heart in the ring, but if your opponent has the same level as skill and athleticism as you, your physical attributes come into play.
> 
> Frankie is really really small for that division and he wasn't going to stay champ for very long. If he takes the belt from Aldo, he can reign as champ down there for a while since he won't be under-sized in his fights.



I think Ben has some definite weaknesses in the stand-up game. For more details, see: Pettis vs Henderson. And if you wanted to be really picky I think there are one or two guys at LW that could submit him (Nate Diaz I think would have a shot).

But he is definitely a big challenge for a lot of guys at LW which is saying something given how stacked that division is.

The rematch excites me a lot, but even without that I think Edgar still has a ton of great match-ups at lightweight. And if he doesn't want to move down, fuck it, why make him? Aldo should move up soon anyways. They're running out of dudes to feed that guy.


----------



## Freija (Apr 26, 2012)

It seems like I should post here.


Anyone know how it goes for Diaz now that they didn't call him to the 24th hearing considering they had to according to their own rules?


Is he free and clear or did some other shit happen?


----------



## Freija (Apr 26, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> I think Ben has some definite weaknesses in the stand-up game. For more details, see: Pettis vs Henderson. And if you wanted to be really picky I think there are one or two guys at LW that could submit him (Nate Diaz I think would have a shot).
> 
> But he is definitely a big challenge for a lot of guys at LW which is saying something given how stacked that division is.
> 
> The rematch excites me a lot, but even without that I think Edgar still has a ton of great match-ups at lightweight. And if he doesn't want to move down, fuck it, why make him? Aldo should move up soon anyways. They're running out of dudes to feed that guy.



I don't know what you have been smoking but the only thing Pettis won on was that uber kick and that was because Henderson thought the kick missed and lowered his guard, he's most likely improved as fuck since then. But so has Pettis.


I want a Showtime-Smooth rematch.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 26, 2012)

Freija said:


> It seems like I should post here.
> 
> 
> Anyone know how it goes for Diaz now that they didn't call him to the 24th hearing considering they had to according to their own rules?
> ...


They want to see his medical marijuana license. Basically they're just going to lol in Diaz's lawyer's face and say, "we ain't dismissing shit." I don't think there's anyone they can appeal to for the commission ignoring it's own rules...



Freija said:


> I don't know what you have been smoking but the only thing Pettis won on was that uber kick and that was because Henderson thought the kick missed and lowered his guard, he's most likely improved as fuck since then. But so has Pettis.


I watched that fight several times when I was doing my breakdown for Edgar vs Henderson-- Pettis landed some crisp, precise punches that rocked Henderson. Henderson landed a jab or two and some body kicks. It was pretty clear to me that Bendo had good accuracy with his kicks but not his punches which continually fell short. 

So, unless you score a body kick higher than a punch to the jaw I think it's safe to say Pettis was winning the stand up.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 26, 2012)

I'm not disputing Bendo's win over Edgar, but I could have seen it go either way and not say it was a bad call.

I think Edgar will win the rematch with sharpened standup.


----------



## Freija (Apr 26, 2012)

Gallic Rush said:


> They want to see his medical marijuana license. Basically they're just going to lol in Diaz's lawyer's face and say, "we ain't dismissing shit." I don't think there's anyone they can appeal to for the commission ignoring it's own rules...
> 
> 
> I watched that fight several times when I was doing my breakdown for Edgar vs Henderson-- Pettis landed some crisp, precise punches that rocked Henderson. Henderson landed a jab or two and some body kicks. It was pretty clear to me that Bendo had good accuracy with his kicks but not his punches which continually fell short.
> ...


Aaaaah, Commissions 


Hope it goes well for Diaz though.

Anyway, he lost the showtime fight eitherway and has since become a better fighter, but yeah, I'd love to see that rematch... Both Benson and Pettis has come a long way.



CrazyMoronX said:


> I'm not disputing Bendo's win over Edgar, but I could have seen it go either way and not say it was a bad call.
> 
> I think Edgar will win the rematch with sharpened standup.



He can sharpen it all he wants, he couldn't even put a dent on Benson's face, that said it all, either he puts on some more muscle weight or I can see it go down the same way, or Benson finishing him.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 26, 2012)

Nah, he just needs to proper game plan and he will smash Bendo.


----------



## Freija (Apr 26, 2012)

What would his gameplan be? He got smashed standing and outclassed on the ground?  His gameplan is always the same, score using superior speed due to lack of power... He clearly has the better boxing technique, but he lacks power... Accumulative shots do a lot but when you face someone like Benson I can't see Frankie winning...


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 26, 2012)

Got smashed standing? Which fight were you watching?

All he needs to do next time is work for more take downs.


----------



## Freija (Apr 26, 2012)

I was watching this fight.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 26, 2012)

You troll!


----------



## Freija (Apr 26, 2012)

You were saying ?


----------



## Aokiji (Apr 26, 2012)

Seiko said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_miaoujma8[/YOUTUBE]



Anderson is so gotten to, it'll be a shame if Sonnen doesn't take his belt. 



CrazyMoronX said:


> And people will still hate him.
> 
> He's arrogant, you know?



Erm he is. It's not even a fucking debate.  

I seriously wonder what the fuck people are thinking. "They will still hate him." As if success entitles you to be liked by everyone. 



CrazyMoronX said:


> Well I want Frankie to win either way. Super fight with Aldo some day.
> 
> Then BJ Penn can come back and get beat up again.



Edgar is lucky that judges are morons or he probably would've never touched the belt in the first place. :ho



Gallic Rush said:


> I think Ben has some definite weaknesses in the stand-up game. For more details, see: Pettis vs Henderson. And if you wanted to be really picky I think there are one or two guys at LW that could submit him (Nate Diaz I think would have a shot).
> 
> But he is definitely a big challenge for a lot of guys at LW which is saying something given how stacked that division is.
> 
> The rematch excites me a lot, but even without that I think Edgar still has a ton of great match-ups at lightweight. *And if he doesn't want to move down, fuck it, why make him?* Aldo should move up soon anyways. They're running out of dudes to feed that guy.



For the same reason that Chuck was forced to retire.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 26, 2012)

I don't hate Jones. I don't like him either, but I don't dislike him. I don't think he has a bad attitude at all. He's the champ.


----------



## Gallic Rush (Apr 26, 2012)

Freija said:


> What would his gameplan be? He got smashed standing and outclassed on the ground?  His gameplan is always the same, score using superior speed due to lack of power... He clearly has the better boxing technique, but he lacks power... Accumulative shots do a lot but when you face someone like Benson I can't see Frankie winning...


The biggest shot he took was that up-kick when he had top position in the second round. I think you're exaggerating how much damage Edgar was taking throughout the fight. Plus, takedowns all went to Frankie.



Freija said:


> I was watching this fight.


Literally the one and only punch (a jab) Bendo landed in the first round was what caused the swelling. Facial tissue damage and brain damage are not predictors of one another.



Aokiji said:


> For the same reason that Chuck was forced to retire.


Because he can't take a punch and is unwilling to change his fighting style? Seems like a poor analogy to me.


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## Freija (Apr 27, 2012)

Yeah, have you ever fought anyone? You don't get like that from one jab? The first jab did the initial damage then he built it up more, sure. And just looking at the damage tells who won, the up kick fucked him up and look at the rest of his face, while Hendo was as smooth as his nickname.


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## Freija (Apr 27, 2012)

And this is why Diaz is king 


Link removed


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## Gallic Rush (Apr 27, 2012)

Freija said:


> Yeah, have you ever fought anyone?


Funny you should ask. I do full contact sparring every week. I've been rocked twice, but the only time I ever got any visible damage to my face was when someone was going for a rear naked choke on me and hit me in the mouth with their wrist. It didn't hurt at all but my lip got all swollen and bloody.
So, yeah, I'm just going to go with my personal experience and say that you can look a lot more fucked up than you are.

If punches are landing on the chin or the temple they're not going to leave a mark. That doesn't mean they don't hurt which is why you have to look at each individual shot and the fight as a whole-- not just a close up after the fight.


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## Freija (Apr 27, 2012)

I've practiced well, pretty mixed, karate for 6 years, MMA for 2, Thai boxing for 3, regular boxing for 3-4(can't remember if I was 16 or 17 when I quit) etc etc, and I can tell you that the eye does not get that fucked up from one jab regardless of how hard you hit... Second look at the bruising on his forehead, cut on his nose. Not to mention the lack of eyesight from the eye... It was clear who was losing.


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## Gallic Rush (Apr 27, 2012)

Huge difference between getting hit in the face with a 16 oz sparring glove versus a 4 oz MMA glove. The lack of padding is an important factor in localizing the punching impact.


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## CrazyMoronX (Apr 27, 2012)

Sue the NSAC.... not sure if that's a good idea or not. I mean, will they give him a license next time if he beats their ass into the ground?


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## Gallic Rush (Apr 27, 2012)

Give him a license?

Diaz is retired. :ho


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## CrazyMoronX (Apr 27, 2012)

Suuuure.


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## Freija (Apr 27, 2012)

Gallic, I've gone amateur matches with the 4 oz and I've sparred with my friends for funsies with 4 oz, doesn't matter it won't swell like that from ONE punch... The difference in power between them was devastating, accept it.


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## CrazyMoronX (Apr 27, 2012)

I don't care what you say, Frankie takes the rematch.


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## eHav (Apr 27, 2012)

bendo will walk all over frankie.never though frankie was anything special tbh


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## CrazyMoronX (Apr 27, 2012)

We'll see. 

I'm not even worried.


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## Gallic Rush (Apr 27, 2012)

Freija said:


> Gallic, I've gone amateur matches with the 4 oz and I've sparred with my friends for funsies with 4 oz, doesn't matter it won't swell like that from ONE punch... The difference in power between them was devastating, accept it.



Were you actually hit in the eye? If you weren't it kind of invalidates your point.

Also, doing "funsies" with your friends doesn't usually involve serious punches unless you guys are savages out in the boonies.

And I didn't say Edgar was Bendo's physical equal. I just think the shots Bendo landed were mostly not that clean-- especially relative to the shots Edgar was landing.


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## Kuya (Apr 27, 2012)

Bendo beats Maynard, Edgar all day.

Pettis, Cerrone, or a conditioned BJ Penn are the ones that I think can challenge him.


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## Tazmo (Apr 27, 2012)

This thread is now closed it has a continuation thread *Here*


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