# Berserker and Archer (Fate/Zero) vs. Bayonetta, Kratos, Dante, and Nariko



## Cypher0120 (Jan 18, 2010)

All bloodlusted. 

Restrictions for mana sustainment is out.

Gate of Babylon is automatically activated in the beginning and somehow Berserker takes on Sparda's Luce and Ombre as his current Noble Phantasm for this battle.

State the order in who will start dying first.

Setting: An open plain. Archer is inside Vimana and Berserker is in his F-15 jet. 

Kratos is in god form, Nariko as a goddess as well. Bayonetta gets no help from Jeanne so let's say...pre-Balder battle. Dante is in Sparda trigger.

Archer knows the capabilities of his and Berserker's opponents and the fact that two of them are considered divine.


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## skiboydoggy (Jan 18, 2010)

Well, it depends. Are we using full powered Bayonetta, God of War Kratos, and goddess Nariko?


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## Cypher0120 (Jan 18, 2010)

(Edited for additional information.)


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## Xelloss (Jan 18, 2010)

Enkido for the divine ones and gate of babylowned.

Actually we have already done Dante and Kratos before vs Gil and same result Gil rapes.


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## Red (Jan 18, 2010)

Bayonette is a beast from what I heard (I'll be getting the game to see for myself) but if what some of what they say she can do is true then she may very well beat the Fate team. The Gods get Enkido'd. Dunno about Dante.


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## Nimademe (Jan 18, 2010)

As much as I want to say Kratos solo's, the mongrels get stomped out.

Enkidu, Gate of Babylon.

Roughly, they all die at about the same time.


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## Cypher0120 (Jan 18, 2010)

Hmm...it feels as if Berserker's being left out. Shouldn't he be able to do something with his abilities too?


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## Nimademe (Jan 18, 2010)

He *COULD*, but he doesn't *NEED* to.

Gilgamesh skewers the mongrels.


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## Raigen (Jan 18, 2010)

Dante solos. Hypersonic decapitation a dozen times over.


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## Cypher0120 (Jan 18, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Dante solos. Hypersonic decapitation a dozen times over.



I don't know...the reason I gave him allies was the fact that Dante kind of got raped in this thread: Link removed


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## Ulti (Jan 18, 2010)

I'm thinking team 2 takes this.

They're gonna have trouble dodging those monster attacks from Bayonetta, trying to dodge Dante at the same time and trying to dodge Medusas gaze/Hades souls from Kratos. I know nothing of Nariko

Meh, I dunno.


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## Crimson King (Jan 18, 2010)

Gilgamesh uses Gae Bolg.

[/thread]


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## Nimademe (Jan 18, 2010)

Wait... what?

Gilgamesh can't use Gae Bolg, only Lancer can.

Gilgamesh still skewers the mongrels though.

If it was a joke, sorry for missing it.


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## Crimson King (Jan 18, 2010)

Nimademe said:


> Wait... what?
> 
> Gilgamesh can't use Gae Bolg, only Lancer can.
> 
> ...


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## Cypher0120 (Jan 18, 2010)

Prototype Gae Bolg.

I'm guessing Enkidu would be a very useful thing in this match.


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## Xelloss (Jan 18, 2010)

Gilgamesh does have gungir the prototype of Gae Bolg and he did use it on 1 of the routes.


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## Nimademe (Jan 18, 2010)

Prototype Gae Bolg isn't anywhere near as powerful as Gae Bolg, as the prototype didn't have any legend surrounding it yet.

So in a sense, it's not Gae Bolg.


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## Red (Jan 18, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Dante solos. Hypersonic decapitation a dozen times over.


If hypersonic is the only thing dante can do then I'm pretty sure Berserker beats him with a tree branch. I'm not exaggerating. Berserker's NP is the ability to turn everything he wields into NP level weapons.


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## Xelloss (Jan 18, 2010)

Nimademe said:


> Prototype Gae Bolg isn't anywhere near as powerful as Gae Bolg, as the prototype didn't have any legend surrounding it yet.
> 
> So in a sense, it's not Gae Bolg.



Gungir its the spear of Odin, and Gil make pretty clear the proto types are even stronger than the legendary version of them.


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## Nimademe (Jan 18, 2010)

Wrong.

He has Gungnir AND Prototype Gae, they are totally different.

Also, not all the prototypes are stronger, just a select few.


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## Xelloss (Jan 18, 2010)

name me 1 because so far all show weapons the parent its stronger, Gram was owning Caliburn so hard it was not funny.

Gungir its pro Gae bolg it was stated.


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## Nimademe (Jan 18, 2010)

The usage of the attack [Spear of Impaling Barbed Death] was based on Gungnir, not the weapon itself.



			
				TYPE-MOON WIKI said:
			
		

> The weapons are the prototypes of the more recent Noble Phantasms. While Cú Chulainn has the Gáe Bolg that became famous, Gilgamesh possesses a weapon that later became the Gáe Bolg, but wasn't famous at the time Gilgamesh owned it.



Also, Gram may be the original, but Excalibur is far more regarded by legend, rendering it stronger.

If Gram is so powerful, why did he not use it instead of Ea?


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## Xelloss (Jan 18, 2010)

The np its independant complety from the user, it was stated by Rin NP are the trimpht card of servants.

Servant are more powerfull as more well know they are more powerfull

Gil used Gungir on Berserk and it kill him with it, something Gae Bolg can't do due to God Hand, which show Gungir its stronger.


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## Red (Jan 18, 2010)

Nimademe said:


> Also, not all the prototypes are stronger, *just a select few.*


That's not how it works, derivatives of noble phantasms are weaker than the original. Gil pretty much made that clear.



			
				Fuyuki Artifacts said:
			
		

> Most Noble Phantasms are based on an original. _The general rule for Noble Phantasms according to Goldy is the "son can't defeat the father," because with each cycle of transmigration a weapon undergoes, it becomes weaker. The actual fact is that Shirou's projected Caliburn had less power against Gilgamesh's Gram (Merodach) than during the fight against Berserker._


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## Cypher0120 (Jan 18, 2010)

No, no...Merodach is the prototype of Gram and Caliburn, which makes it stronger. Excalibur is stronger than Merodach though, and Gae Bolg is stronger than the original Gungnir even with the same abilities.

Link removed

"Your lance is stronger than the original Gungnir." 

Archer said that.


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## Xelloss (Jan 18, 2010)

That statement its regadless the technique he use, barbing impaling death, not the weapon per se Gungir its a A grade weapon, which Gae Bolg its B grade

same goes for Merodach its stronger, problem as always its Gil lack the prof to use it.


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## Crimson King (Jan 18, 2010)

gotta love how every thread involving Type Moon ends up being a thread discussing Type Moon


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## Nimademe (Jan 18, 2010)

This isn't on topic anymore.

On topic is, Gilgamesh skewers the mongrels, all he needs are Enkidu/Gate of Babylon and Ea anyway.

Berserker can watch his back.

Of anyone has any objections to this, say so.


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## Crimson King (Jan 18, 2010)

Nimademe said:


> This isn't on topic anymore.
> 
> On topic is, Gilgamesh skewers the mongrels, all he needs are Enkidu/Gate of Babylon and Ea anyway.
> 
> Berserker can watch his back.



Or Berserker takes their weapons and beats them over the head with it.


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## Cypher0120 (Jan 18, 2010)

So basically, even in two against four...Lancelot and Gilgamesh still rape. 

Maybe I should just plop those two in each of those universes and have them run a gauntlet or something...


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## Red (Jan 18, 2010)

Nimademe said:


> Of anyone has any objections to this, say so.


Honestly I think Bayonette would be a problem. I heard she has time stop and class 100 strength.


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## Raigen (Jan 18, 2010)

I haven't seen anything that even puts F/S people above supersonic so I don't imagine they're beating Dante, let alone a Fully Powered Dante who's got time-manipulation, Sparda Sword and scores of powers/weapons. Not to mention Gaebolg won't do shit to him at all. You think heartpiercing will kill him? Done it. And shot in the head. Nothing. He's got regen these bitches can only dream of, and that's in weaker stages, without DT. Hell Royal Guard pretty much makes it damn near impossible for them to hit him anyway.


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## Crimson King (Jan 18, 2010)

Raigen said:


> random crap



You haven't even read F/SN, so why are you talking?

Gae Bolg = reverse causality and regeneration negation.

Go back to warcraft wanking or something.


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## Xelloss (Jan 18, 2010)

Raigen said:


> I haven't seen anything that even puts F/S people above supersonic so I don't imagine they're beating Dante, let alone a Fully Powered Dante who's got time-manipulation, Sparda Sword and scores of powers/weapons. Not to mention Gaebolg won't do shit to him at all. You think heartpiercing will kill him? Done it. And shot in the head. Nothing. He's got regen these bitches can only dream of, and that's in weaker stages, without DT. Hell Royal Guard pretty much makes it damn near impossible for them to hit him anyway.



Read fate/zero

Regen gae bolg cancel it, along a few others that cancel regen

Time stop already deal with that.


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## Raigen (Jan 18, 2010)

I have read F/S. Manga and Anime. Good stuff. still doesn't neg regen, it's main is heart-piece via space-warping so it never misses. nevermind the fact it still wouldn't kill Dante nor the fact he'd kill them before they could do anything. Forget that Sparda DT makes him nigh-invincible to begin with and Royal Guard means he can block/counter pretty much everything.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 18, 2010)

they're talking about the visual novel you dolt


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## Cypher0120 (Jan 18, 2010)

Reposting this from an older thread.



Tranquil Fury said:


> Lets see he can attack and switch weapons inbetween blows fast enough to keep up with Saber.
> Link removed
> Link removed
> Link removed
> ...


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## Kurou (Jan 18, 2010)

raigen for some strange reason refuses to except the visual novels as the true canon even though they are.

that being said gilga's immune to time stop so that wouldn't work anyway.


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## Raigen (Jan 18, 2010)

That being said, it doesn't matter.


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65s3dMKzMqc[/YOUTUBE]





*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aypVFyWzGfE[/YOUTUBE]





*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzydMLP4Fjw[/YOUTUBE]





*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNZim18VFKY[/YOUTUBE]




There's so much more, but I can't find a good clip of Dante kicking Abigail/Cid's ass from the anime.

...

No wait here it is. And this was after he was knocking out multi-block busters and stated as around Mundus level.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnh4bJbOFaw[/YOUTUBE]


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## Xelloss (Jan 18, 2010)

Anime no canon

And all this does crap to proto gae bolg which negates regen.


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## Raigen (Jan 18, 2010)

Anime is canon. Go learn something. Anime, manga, Novels, games all share the same canon. Still none of you have actually proven their speed and just give a vague "they did this!" statement which means jack nothing. Show me something that proves it, cause otherwise I got the Tower Drop which puts Dante in the high-hypersonic range as of several years before his bout with Mundus.


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## Xelloss (Jan 18, 2010)

... lets see Gilgamesh fighting Fate/zero berserker using a NP vulcan canon from a F-15 which put him at mach 4 without even trying.

And Gil gold armor takes mountain busters without leave a mark on it, I guess that give him a pretty darn good durability


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## Cypher0120 (Jan 19, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Anime is canon. Go learn something. Anime, manga, Novels, games all share the same canon. Still none of you have actually proven their speed and just give a vague "they did this!" statement which means jack nothing. Show me something that proves it, cause otherwise I got the Tower Drop which puts Dante in the high-hypersonic range as of several years before his bout with Mundus.




Did you actually even read the lists we posted earlier? Everything from speed to the special abilities of a few weapons.

Dante can't win this alone. There's a reason he was curbstomped in an earlier thread and has allies in this fight.


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## Nimademe (Jan 19, 2010)

Dante is easily the weakest here.


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## Daiyoukai Ramza (Jan 19, 2010)

Raigen, you really must tell me how you acquired a reality marble, because that's the only explanation for your ability to reject reality and substitute it with your own. Don't bother trying to deny it, because I overheard your chant and memorized it:

*I am the bane of my credibility*
*Youtube spam is my body and hot air is my blood*
*I have created over a thousand hyperboles*
*Unknown to truth, Nor known to common sense*
*Have withstood mockery to create many fallacies*
*Yet, those arguments will never hold water*
*So as I blubber, Unlimited Wank Works.*

...

In regards to the subject matter of the thread itself, I'm firmly in the 'Mongrels get Gates of Babelowned' camp, for reasons already mentioned previously by others in the thread. Gilgamesh just has too many broken-as-hell noble phantasms that he can throw out almost instantaneously. Bayonetta, as far as I know, has the best feats on Team Mongrel, but I don't really see her surviving a hit to the heart from a causality-reversing, regen-negating uber-spear.


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## pikachuwei (Jan 19, 2010)

Does Bayonetta get gigantic god statue to sun punch?

If so F/S probably lose.


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## skiboydoggy (Jan 19, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> Does Bayonetta get gigantic god statue to sun punch?
> 
> If so F/S probably lose.


Not in this fight. So the mongrels get Gate of Babylowned.


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## Nimademe (Jan 19, 2010)

Berserker doesn't even need to do anything.


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## skiboydoggy (Jan 19, 2010)

Nimademe said:


> Berserker doesn't even need to do anything.


Which is amusing because Berserker could probably solo too.


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## Juri (Jan 19, 2010)

Cypher0120 said:


> Reposting this from an older thread.



Just have one problem with this. When did Excalibur ever show city-busting capabilities?



skiboydoggy said:


> Which is amusing because Berserker could probably solo too.



edit: berserker is powered by plot and it is impossible to determine what he can do. for all we know he could attach his nose hair to bayonetta's giant statue of sun punch and turn it into his noble phantasm then planet bust causing a draw by bfr.


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## Kurou (Jan 19, 2010)

Daiyoukai Ramza said:


> *I am the bane of my credibility*
> *Youtube spam is my body and hot air is my blood*
> *I have created over a thousand hyperboles*
> *Unknown to truth, Nor known to common sense*
> ...



a truly epic post


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## skiboydoggy (Jan 19, 2010)

I think I'm going to rep everyone who refers to Heracles Berserker as BAAZAAKAA from now on.

--------------------!

And Shirou has fucking Avalon in his gut. There's very few things he can't survive or regenerate from as long as Saber is nearby and has enough magic.


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## Red (Jan 19, 2010)

Cycloid said:


> firstly, i made a mistake with which Berserker it was and i remember it being more of a BahSahKah. secondly, the fact that he didn't die instantly means these guys should be able to take him. as for Lancelot, see edited post.


The reason he didn't die instantly was because Ilya's magic kept him alive. At the end of that BAD END he was crushed until nothing but his head was left then Ilya took him back to the castle to play with him.

Also going by feats of all other characters weaker than Berserker, busting a mountain is small time and should be expected from him.


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## Juri (Jan 19, 2010)

Red said:


> The reason he didn't die instantly was because Ilya's magic kept him alive. At the end of that BAD END he was crushed until nothing but his head was left then Ilya took him back to the castle to play with him.
> 
> *Also going by feats of all other characters weaker than Berserker, busting a mountain is small time and should be expected from him.*



Which character weaker than Berserker has shown anything close to mountain busting? Do please tell and give the occasion so I can check.


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## Ulti (Jan 19, 2010)

Nimademe said:


> Dante is easily the weakest here.



Lol no, Dante has beaten Kratos here.

Bayonetta is stronger than him, never played Heavenly sword.

Mind you I give Dante good odds at beating pre-Balder Bayonetta.


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## Red (Jan 19, 2010)

Cycloid said:


> Which character weaker than Berserker has shown anything close to mountain busting? Do please tell and give the occasion so I can check.


You're putting words in my mouth, I never said weaker characters show mountain busting feats. I was talking about the power progression. Exaclibur is an A++ rank and can crank out city busting with a prime saber, Heracles strength is an order magnitude smaller (A+) thus making mountain busting plausible. Not only that, this is heroic spirit Heracles after the 12 trials which included carrying the world from atlas. With his Mad Enchantment he's stronger than that as well.


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## Juri (Jan 19, 2010)

Red said:


> You're putting words in my mouth, I never said weaker characters show mountain busting feats.



hence why i said anything close to mountain busting.



> I was talking about the power progression. Exaclibur is an A++ rank and can crank out city busting with a prime saber, Heracles strength is an order magnitude smaller (A+) thus making mountain busting plausible.



I'm curious about the Saber citybust, when did it happen? the biggest thing i remember her busting with excaliblast is a ship. also that was done with an enegy attack not brute strength which is all Berserker has.



> Not only that, this is heroic spirit Heracles after the 12 trials which included carrying the world from atlas. With his Mad Enchantment he's stronger than that as well.



Association fallacy, Nasuverse heroic spirits are quite different from their mythical counterparts and even though we know it is in some form the same hero, feats are not so easily transplantable. case in point Gilgamesh is so much stronger than his mythical counterpart and has things the other didn't. also, lifting power does not translate to destructive power.


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## Crimson King (Jan 19, 2010)

Cycloid said:


> I'm curious about the Saber citybust, when did it happen? the biggest thing i remember her busting with excaliblast is a ship. also that was done with an enegy attack not brute strength which is all Berserker has.



Fate/hollow


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## Red (Jan 20, 2010)

Cycloid said:


> hence why i said anything close to mountain busting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The cityblast comes from F/HA where the excalibur is seen extending past the shinto area.

I'll concede that A+ strength and A++ NP are different since they're not comparable but to say that Heracles from legends is not the same Heracles in Fate is incorrect. These guys are plucked straight from lore with their feats in their past lives contributing directly to their performance in the holy grail war. It is not an association fallacy _when that's been outright stated_.

With that in mind if Heracles carried the heavens as one of the twelve trials. Take it the way you like since I'm pretty sure that that doesn't translate well but it is a testament to his strength and makes Shirou's statement carry weight.


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