# RPGs: Western vs Japanese



## Ryuji Yamazaki (Nov 28, 2011)

*WESTERN*

or 


*Japanese *


Okay, there are different types of RPG's, but which type of RPG's do you prefer? Do you like Western ones, for example games like Fallout, Elder Scroll series, Dragon Age's,Dark Soul, Fable,Balduer Gate, Witcher, Deus Ex, Star wars,etc. Or is Japanese RPG's more of your taste, with games like Final Fantasy, Pokemon, Blue Dragon, StarOcean, Disgaea,  Fire Emblem, Kingdom Hearts, etc.

To me I prefer Western RPG's over Japanese. Though some Japanese RPG's I played to death like Final Fantasy or Pokemon. Reason why I prefer Western RPG's over Japanese ones, is because I like the open world Western RPG's give me, the full content, the ability to customize characters, or that the soundtracks are appealing to me. To me I sometimes dislike the turned-based game-play of Japanese RPG's, I didn't like it in  Lost Odyssey, but I just ignored it and enjoyed the story. 

I will give Japanese RPG's story line, which they are great at telling, but I do hate the English voice acting. That's my opinion, what is you guy's take?


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## dream (Nov 28, 2011)

I prefer Western RPGs, the gameplay is usually more appealing to me.


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## Krory (Nov 28, 2011)

Bwuahahahaha... this thread...


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## Zen-aku (Nov 28, 2011)

WRPGs cause usually u can actually Role-play

That and the stories are usually superior


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## Buskuv (Nov 28, 2011)

It begins.


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## Kaitou (Nov 28, 2011)

I'm more of a story person, so JRPGs but WRPGS get the cake for having superior gameplay.


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## Krory (Nov 28, 2011)

Kaitou said:


> I'm more of a story person, so JRPGs but WRPGS get the cake for having superior gameplay.



.


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## iGoku (Nov 28, 2011)

did someone just say western rpgs have superior stories? hahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

anyway i like the japanese rpgs much more. classics like final fantasy and chronno trigger etc shit on western rpgs


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## Malvingt2 (Nov 28, 2011)

JRPG's... one of the main reasons why;


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## Krory (Nov 28, 2011)

iGoku said:


> did someone just say western rpgs have superior stories? hahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> anyway i like the japanese rpgs much more. classics like final fantasy and chronno trigger etc shit on western rpgs



.


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## First Tsurugi (Nov 28, 2011)

This will end well, I can tell.

Generally I prefer JRPGs as they tend to have better gameplay in my opinion, or at least the ones that aren't purely turnbased do. WRPGs until recently have seemed for the most part to have clunky or unwieldy gameplay.

WRPGs for their part tend to have better stories, or at least be better written. JRPG stories are for the most part arbitrary, clumsily handled, or just plain nonsensical, though both sides have their exceptions.

But gameplay > story for me, even when it comes to RPGs.


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## Kaitou (Nov 28, 2011)

Malvingt2 said:


> Xenoblade



Fuckyeah.


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## Gilgamesh (Nov 28, 2011)

I prefer WRPGs because the men actually look like men


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## Helix (Nov 28, 2011)

Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are not WRPGs. 

I don't know why one must choose one over the other. There are some good WRPGs, and there are some good JRPGs. Obviously, in recent years, JRPGs haven't been as successful as WRPGs.


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## Esura (Nov 28, 2011)

Helix said:


> *Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are not WRPGs. *
> 
> I don't know why one must choose one over the other. There are some good WRPGs, and there are some good JRPGs. Obviously, in recent years, JRPGs haven't been as successful as WRPGs.



Yeah, it seems people don't comprehend that.

Anyways, I prefer JRPGs personally. I generally prefer the characters, designs, stories, worlds and gameplay over those made by Western developers. I do like my fair share of WRPGs however they fall flat to me in comparison.


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## ArinTheFool (Nov 28, 2011)

WRPGS are usually alot more fun to me, but I enjoy JRPGs as well.


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## zenieth (Nov 29, 2011)

fuck this thread, saying this as a preemptive


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## Mickey Mouse (Nov 29, 2011)

western for gameplay jrpg for story.....is that weird to say?



First Tsurugi said:


> *This will end well, I can tell.*
> 
> Generally I prefer JRPGs as they tend to have better gameplay in my opinion, or at least the ones that aren't purely turnbased do. WRPGs until recently have seemed for the most part to have clunky or unwieldy gameplay.
> 
> ...


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

I officially like Hyperdimension Neptunia more than FO3 and NV.


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## zenieth (Nov 29, 2011)

yeah but you crazy esura


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## Shuntensatsu (Nov 29, 2011)

WRPG's really don't even exist for the most part. 

Mass Effect and Fallout are shooters with rpg elements not real rpgs.

As for Jrps they basically aren't made anymore. If I had to pick I would say Jrps from the 90's were the best. 

Rpg is really a dead genre these days.  Even the great ones like Demon's Souls are more action than RPG.


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## Krory (Nov 29, 2011)

Shuntensatsu said:


> WRPG's really don't even exist for the most part.
> 
> Mass Effect and Fallout are shooters with rpg elements not real rpgs.
> 
> ...



Whatever you're smoking, I want some.


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

Shun has a point on WRPGs though. Every new WRPG seems to really de-emphasize RPG gameplay elements hard.

JRPGs are being made left and right, just 80% of them aren't being localized.


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## Krory (Nov 29, 2011)

Typical.


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## Gnome (Nov 29, 2011)

Not really, Wrpgs are closer to the old DnD style of role playing than Jrpgs. They just you know, have actual combat.


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## Krory (Nov 29, 2011)

Gnome said:


> Not really, Wrpgs are closer to the old DnD style of role playing than Jrpgs. They just you know, have actual combat.



That's not the way combat is supposed to work, though.

The enemy should politely wait for you to do whatever it is you need to do.


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## Shuntensatsu (Nov 29, 2011)

Jrps are made yes but not by any of the devs that have enough cash to make good ones. 

Most of them are obscure and pretty awful or they are for never-had-a-girlfriend types that live in their basement and enjoy lots of scenes with lolis in their panties.


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## Krory (Nov 29, 2011)

Shuntensatsu said:


> Jrps are made yes but not by any of the devs that have enough cash to make good ones.
> 
> Most of them are obscure and pretty awful or they are for never-had-a-girlfriend types that live in their basement and enjoy lots of scenes with lolis in their panties.



>Square-Enix
>tri-Ace
>Atlus
>Nippon Ichi
>From Software
>Monolith Soft

Some of the developers responsible for the most popular JRPGs this, and previous, generations.

Just sayin'.


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

Gnome said:


> Not really, *Wrpgs are closer to the old DnD style of role playing than Jrpgs.* They just you know, have actual combat.



That's not really saying much at all dude, and I'm well aware of how tabletop RPGs operate considering I've participated in a few of them myself at the local comic shop when I was younger. Newer WRPGs (not all of them, just the extremely popular ones) are as close to the old DnD style as tofu is close to being real meat.


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## Helix (Nov 29, 2011)

Shuntensatsu said:


> Jrps are made yes but not by any of the devs that have enough cash to make good ones.
> 
> Most of them are obscure and pretty awful or they are for never-had-a-girlfriend types that live in their basement and enjoy lots of scenes with lolis in their panties.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlB4_7l6cA8[/YOUTUBE]


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## zenieth (Nov 29, 2011)

yup peemptive was a necessity.


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## Zen-aku (Nov 29, 2011)

iGoku said:


> anyway i like the japanese rpgs much more. classics like final fantasy and chronno trigger etc shit on western rpgs



so To sum up

JRPGS hit their peak in the mid 90's and  have been limping around resting on their laurels ever since like the rest of the Japanese Gaming scene

Thanks for clearing that up Cheif 



> WRPG's really don't even exist for the most part.
> 
> Mass Effect and Fallout are shooters with rpg elements not real rpgs.


Wrong they are RPG's Set in worlds were melee combat is  not an option, so the major form of combat has to be guns,

COD and Borderlands are Shoooters with RPG elements,


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## Majinvergil (Nov 29, 2011)

I enjoy both ,but this gen has been lacking some good JRPG'S imo


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## Violent by Design (Nov 29, 2011)

Just so people know, JRPG does not equal Turn Based RPGs (especially this generation), and WRPG does not equal Action Based RPGs. The biggest difference between the two is their artistic directions. WRPG's tend to be more open world, more side quest heavy and do not have the random encounters as JRPGS (or I should say, it is not done in the same style). Though, these are merely just trends, JRPG and WRPG are not actual genres.



Shuntensatsu said:


> WRPG's really don't even exist for the most part.
> 
> Mass Effect and Fallout are shooters with rpg elements not real rpgs.
> 
> ...




How are they primarily not RPGs? There are turn based RPGs and Action RPGs, I don't think many people are going to say that Tales of Symphonia (A "JRPG") is an action game. Is Diablo primarily a beat em up (I am actually curious to your opinion, the question is not rhetorical)?


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## Sephiroth (Nov 29, 2011)

I love both, ever play Septerra Core? Great Wrpg.


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## Hana (Nov 29, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> I love both, ever play Septerra Core? Great Wrpg.



I'm not the only person who played that game???


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## Gnome (Nov 29, 2011)

Esura said:


> That's not really saying much at all dude, and I'm well aware of how tabletop RPGs operate considering I've participated in a few of them myself at the local comic shop when I was younger. Newer WRPGs (not all of them, just the extremely popular ones) are as close to the old DnD style as tofu is close to being real meat.



Why do I feel like you're basically just talking about Mass Effect?


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## Sephiroth (Nov 29, 2011)

Hana said:


> I'm not the only person who played that game???



Someone else  has played Septerra Core?!? 

I'll test your obscurity even further, ever played a game called Nox?


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## Malvingt2 (Nov 29, 2011)

Krory said:


> >Square-Enix
> >tri-Ace
> >Atlus
> >Nippon Ichi
> ...


 seriously tho, JPRG genre is in a weird state in this gen but maybe in the next one it can be in a healthy one.


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## Rios (Nov 29, 2011)

JRPGs are for sissies.


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## Sephiroth (Nov 29, 2011)

Dark Souls is also best rpg of the year.


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## Byrd (Nov 29, 2011)

Until I get totally blown away with games like Xenosaga, Chrono Cross and Trigger, Final Fantasy X, Tales series..etc Westerns have a long way to go in terms of story.. Don;t get me wrong, They have excellent stories just havent reach this peak yet..


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Nov 29, 2011)

It's that thread again. And I pick neither.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 29, 2011)

Krory said:


> The enemy should politely wait for you to do whatever it is you need to do.



DnD enemy:"Roll the damn dice already!"


Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> It's that thread again. And I pick neither.


.


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## Malvingt2 (Nov 29, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> Dark Souls is also best rpg of the year after *Xenoblade* of course.


 fixed


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## Gnome (Nov 29, 2011)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> DnD enemy:"Roll the damn dice already!"



The point.
________
Your head.

Unless I'm to explain to you what is obvious.


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## Sephiroth (Nov 29, 2011)

A better question would be what are your favorite aspects of rpgs?

Mine personally are stats and loot, and by stats I mean ones that have a huge significant effect on gameplay.


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## Krory (Nov 29, 2011)

Oh Gnome. Why can't I Rep you again?


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## Malvingt2 (Nov 29, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> A better question would be what are your favorite aspects of rpgs?
> 
> Mine personally are stats and loot, and by stats I mean ones that have a huge significant effect on gameplay.


 Battle system is one of my favorite aspect. Reason why I am keeping an eye on The Last Story "probably importing that game"


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## KidTony (Nov 29, 2011)

Helix said:


> D*emon's Souls and Dark Souls are not WRPGs.*
> 
> I don't know why one must choose one over the other. There are some good WRPGs, and there are some good JRPGs. Obviously, in recent years, JRPGs haven't been as successful as WRPGs.



Yes, yes they are.

It doesn't matter if they are made in japan. What makes a JRPG different than a Western RPG is turn-based combat.

All real time combat RPGs are considering to be western in style, regardless of where they are developed.

As for my money, JRPGs are a relic of the past and need to die.


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## Sephiroth (Nov 29, 2011)

KidTony said:


> Yes, yes they are.
> 
> It doesn't matter if they are made in japan. What makes a JRPG different than a Western RPG is turn-based combat.
> 
> ...


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## KidTony (Nov 29, 2011)

then every magazine, and game site this year has gone full retard, because they all call Dark Souls a WRPG.

And i actually get it, that a title is a title, and a difference of style is what makes the distinction.


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## Malvingt2 (Nov 29, 2011)

KidTony said:


> Yes, yes they are.
> 
> It doesn't matter if they are made in japan. What makes a JRPG different than a Western RPG is turn-based combat.
> 
> ...


why? JRPG still alive and kicking. A couple of titles showed us that can still be done right.


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## KidTony (Nov 29, 2011)

i hate turn based combat, unless its pokemon.


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## The Boss (Nov 29, 2011)

I was never a fan of turn base RPGs so I played very few RPGs growing up. So I guess it's safe to say I prefer WRPGs. The gameplay appeals to me more.


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## WolfPrinceKiba (Nov 29, 2011)

I overall like WRPGs more. Though my favorite JRPG is a fair deal higher on my all time favorite list then my favorite WRPG.


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## Malvingt2 (Nov 29, 2011)

oh? they are a lot of JPRG which are real time "battle system"


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## Zen-aku (Nov 29, 2011)

KidTony said:


> Yes, yes they are.
> 
> It doesn't matter if they are made in japan. What makes a JRPG different than a Western RPG is turn-based combat.



So Kingdom hearts and Infinite undiscovery (the last JRPG i enjoyed) aren't JRPG's just because their not turn based?


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## Sephiroth (Nov 29, 2011)

> It doesn't matter if they are made in japan. What makes a JRPG different than a Western RPG is turn-based combat.


What makes the distinction is country of origin, a WRPG is something that comes from you know a Western developer, like North America or Europe.

Nearly half of JRPGs are action based and half of WRPGs are turn based.



> All real time combat RPGs are considering to be western in style, regardless of where they are developed.


You do know that Western rpgs were all turn based in the beginning correct? 

Ever played Fallout 1 or 2? They weren't made turn based because of limitations either.

JRPGs have had action games out there since the 80s, like the Ys games.


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## crazymtf (Nov 29, 2011)

KidTony said:


> then every magazine, and game site this year has gone full retard, because they all call Dark Souls a WRPG.
> 
> And i actually get it, that a title is a title, and a difference of style is what makes the distinction.



Show me three sources that say Dark Souls is WRPG. Go for it. 

And wow....yeah...Ummm No. Difference is where they come from fool. Notice the art direction, style of atmosphere, and so on. Not the battle system, seeing as each side has had turned based and real time. This might be the dumbest fucking post I've ever seen 


Anyway my vote goes for WRPG. I still enjoy JRPG but this gen they have been lacking while WRPG are only getting better.


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## Byrd (Nov 29, 2011)

I find myself however enjoying srpgs though kinda more than JRPG.. tactics ogre(one of these best), SRW, FFT, growlanser are some very good ones


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## Corruption (Nov 29, 2011)

WRPG for me, there have only been a few good JRPG's this gen that I've played. 

Now, what do you call a RPG that's from a different asian country than Japan?


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## Hatifnatten (Nov 29, 2011)

Oh god, somebody made something as stupid as VS voting thread.......... In no way this will lead into enormous shitstorm eventually.

Whatever. JRPG.


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## ShadowReij (Nov 29, 2011)

jrpgs any day of the week.


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

KidTony said:


> Yes, yes they are.
> 
> It doesn't matter if they are made in japan. What makes a JRPG different than a Western RPG is turn-based combat.
> 
> ...


This is one of the most stupidest post I've read in a long time.

You do know there are JRPGs with real time combat in previous generations right? Likewise, there are also turn based WRPGs too.


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## Sephiroth (Nov 29, 2011)

Darkness_Surrounding said:


> WRPG for me, there have only been a few good JRPG's this gen that I've played.
> 
> Now, what do you call a RPG that's from a different asian country than Japan?



Eastern RPG.


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## Byrd (Nov 29, 2011)

KidTony said:


> Yes, yes they are.
> 
> It doesn't matter if they are made in japan. What makes a JRPG different than a Western RPG is turn-based combat.
> 
> ...



go look back in rpg history cause this is so untrue.. real-time combat has been out since the snes in JRPG.. example Tales of Phantasia, Secret of Mana etc.


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## DeathScream (Nov 29, 2011)

its unfucking beliveable that everyone forget that WRPGS = Baldur's Gate series

one of the best WRPG series


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## Krory (Nov 29, 2011)

duoranger said:


> its unfucking beliveable that everyone forget that WRPGS = Baldur's Gate series



They didn't forget.

Baldur's Gate just didn't have insanely spiky mismatched colored hair and swords the size Michael Clarke Duncan.


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

Krory said:


> They didn't forget.
> 
> Baldur's Gate just didn't have insanely spiky mismatched colored hair and swords the size Michael Clarke Duncan.



Hey guess what? Your mom called me and you know what she told me?

That you're a hater.


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## blazikengirl (Nov 29, 2011)

Japanese. Which other type would allow for virtual gfs


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 29, 2011)

Gnome said:


> The point.
> ________
> Your head.
> 
> Unless I'm to explain to you what is obvious.



No one gets sarcasm anymore.


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## DeathScream (Nov 29, 2011)

Krory said:


> They didn't forget.
> 
> Baldur's Gate just didn't have insanely spiky mismatched colored hair and swords the size Michael Clarke Duncan.



well at least Baldur's gate didn't had Emo Protagonits, or Emo Villains or worse: The Ms. Fanservice.

(Damn you FF7 for bring these stardards for both RPG games)


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## zenieth (Nov 29, 2011)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> No one gets sarcasm anymore.



People still get it, their patience just runs dry with bitching.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 29, 2011)

zenieth said:


> People still get it, their patience just runs dry with bitching.



All I see is you doing the bitching.
Do you have something you want to say to me Zenieth?


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

zenieth always bitch about something, it ain't new. Welcome to NF son.


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## zenieth (Nov 29, 2011)

Esura, whatever man I got no problem with you. Well except for a lot of questionable shit you do, but that's neither here nor there.

Unlosing Ranger however is someone I do have a problem with if solely for the fact that he tries to pass away his bullshit with dry attempts at wit for fucking pointless reasons. And it's mainly because he doesn't keep his shit to one section.


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## serger989 (Nov 29, 2011)

I typed a big 8 paragraph post but it got deleted because I got signed out in the process of typing it? Grrrr that's disheartening


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## zenieth (Nov 29, 2011)

tl;dr then man

just list off the important points.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 29, 2011)

zenieth said:


> Unlosing Ranger however is someone I do have a problem with if solely for the fact that he tries to pass away his bullshit with dry attempts at wit for fucking pointless reasons. And it's mainly because he doesn't keep his shit to one section.


I was thinking it was something along the lines of 
"he's posting in a section I go to"
Sorry you don't like my sense of humor.


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## Krory (Nov 29, 2011)

duoranger said:


> well at least Baldur's gate didn't had Emo Protagonits, or Emo Villains or worse: The Ms. Fanservice.
> 
> (Damn you FF7 for bring these stardards for both RPG games)



You're missing the point... that's what they WANT.


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## zenieth (Nov 29, 2011)

Hey they aint nothing wrong with a nice house with nothing in the attic. Just don't expect me to relate to her


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## serger989 (Nov 29, 2011)

- Baldur's Gate is the perfect example of what an RPG should be (so is Skyrim)
- JRPGs have not adapted or changed as much over the years
- They still have changed (Dark Souls, World Ends With You etc etc)
- JRPGs change more in the sense of gameplay and interface
- WRPGs change more as a whole
- Dark Souls isn't a WRPG, it's a JRPG that focuses on very basic essentials to game design (Atmosphere, Presentation, Sense of achievement)
- JRPGs are playing catch up and quite a few Japanese developers know their industry is in a form of stagnation
- When JRPG developers do change (I'm looking at you Square Enix) they seem to have no idea what people liked in the first place (FF13, 14, Infinite Undiscovery, Last Remnant just to name a few)
- Many other JRPG developers embrace change well or do what they do best well (Dragon Quest, Tales Of, they bring enough new to the table for what they want to do in the first place)
- WRPGs also have a problem of not knowing what not to do (Dragon Age 2 and Too Human are good examples I can think of...)

Overall I say the winner is in those who can change and adapt. RPGs like any gaming genre is something that can't remain the same forever or it will just die out. Turn based doesn't = JRPG and Big Dudez doesn't = WRPG. At the moment, Japanese developers are having a very hard time understanding that pumping out the same old concepts doesn't cut it on a global scale anymore. There hasn't been much that pushed the genre forward on their end in a long time. Look what Bioware did with Baldur's Gate for a second... It was incredibly ambitious, it had everything, story, music, an incredibly long main plot and an astounding amount of side content, deep gameplay, deep exploration, sense of achievement and most of all deep freedom of choice. Skyrim is the only recent example I can think of that really comes close in capturing what Baldur's Gate did all those years ago, it's not quite there on all fronts but the ambition is there that's for sure. 

Bioware also brought one of the biggest factors on the table with KOTOR, cinematic choice and voice acting (they weren't the first but they did it really well and brought it to a mass market). That's a huge deal in the end that's really been taken seriously for the genre and many other genres. That's not to say the East didn't contribute anything but not to such a large extent in recent years. I'm also not a WRPG fanboy, some of my favorite games of all time are Chrono Trigger and Cross, FF6, the Tales Of games, FF12 and I can't WAIT to get my hands on No Ni Kuni it looks so damned cool!


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## zenieth (Nov 29, 2011)

oh wow I'm actually impressed by that fence of text. reps to you.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Nov 29, 2011)

He's actually thought this through.


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## serger989 (Nov 29, 2011)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> He's actually thought this through.



I'm ticked my previous post didn't go through... I had to really put it in short form ><



Krory said:


> You're missing the point... that's what they WANT.



It may be what they want but at the same time, they can always play FF7 again. There's no need to waste time making remake when they can make a new game instead. The most they would do is release it in HD... or something. The grand scale the players want it remade in is absolutely massive. I do not for one second believe that it would take 10+ years as Square has suggested but... You can't take Japanese development time lightly. It's the slowest in the entire industry. You think these games get made quickly or even orderly?

Think just how long a Japanese game is usually in development before the announcement is even made on it. Some developers obviously can do things in a timely fashion but most are behind the times in running an effective development cycle with proper team communication. It's just a fact of the industry, it's something that hasn't changed in a long time which reflects in their game design (mostly). Even Skyward Sword is a good example (to an extent and only on a few points, I will explain).

Skyward Sword is incredible don't get me wrong, the way you play that Zelda game is the best I've ever had the joy of experiencing. In fact it's one of the most fun games to play period. There's nothing like... BEING the sword arm. That right there is incredible. But then take a look at how they truly designed the game? The backtracking... To me that screams that their direction from the start was uncertain. I'm sure evidence can be found that Skyward Sword obviously didn't start out at all like it is now. To my understanding, it played the same as your typical zelda and it even looked the same (WindWaker also started out incredibly differently).

Now regardless of the gem they found... Regardless of how good those games are. The way the development started was chaotic in a sense that stemmed from uncertainty and through that chaos they found something that worked. Not every developer has the luxury of having the creative minds of Nintendo. But the fact of the matter is that most Japanese developers start out the same way when making something, simply with very little structure and they change a lot on a whim. This creates an extraordinarily LONG development cycle (some games are in development a loooot longer than they are announced, up to years and years) but most notably a high COST to creating games. 

This is one of the reasons, I would only imagine, that innovation is something looked down upon in the development process of Eastern games, even when they make so many changes to begin with. Too Human suffered from such a thought process and obviously, Duke Nukem Forever. What happens is that when they come out you get something dated and confusing and sticking to older formulas more often than not regardless of the amount of changes that encompassed the project. One of the things that will save Japanese development overall is simply a higher emphasis on team organization and a beginning development cycle. Every great thing starts with a vision after all, especially one that can be easily directed.

Again not all Japanese developers suffer this but a lot of them do, it's one of the reasons why a lot of Japanese developers are speaking out and the industry is looking towards the West for what exactly sets them apart so much. They can make the same "types" of games that they see Western developers creating yet the games they produce will suffer in the process, while others will be madly successful by offering that right amount of change and adaptation.


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## zenieth (Nov 29, 2011)

Shit happens


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## Black Superman (Nov 29, 2011)

Western for story, japanese for gameplay.


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## Squall Leonhart (Nov 29, 2011)

Japanese RPGs got more potential because they have better stories, BUT.. for this gen, the western RPGs were WAY better.


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

Eh, I've had more fun playing FFXIII and Devil Survivor than every other WRPG thats not Deus Ex: HR.


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## serger989 (Nov 29, 2011)

The opinion of stories being better is extremely subjective, it's all dependent on the person. Many will argue that FF13's story was terrible, while many will defend it. I personally did not like FF13's story and much prefer previous FF iterations, all of them, compared to 13. In fact 13 and Modern Warfare 2 are the only games in my entire life that I returned. I completed them both and was done with them. The argument that 13 doesn't get good until about 15+ hours is actually fairly correct to say which is completely ridiculous for a "tutorial" and an incredibly BAD design choice. To me it was only mediocre overall but again, it's only my opinion.

Now I look at the stories of The Witcher 2, Skyrim (the pacing is what you choose it to be but the main story is surprisingly epic, I did NOT expect that), Baldur's Gate 2, Tales of the Abyss, FF6; as a side note I'm not one of those "ooo it's way better than 7 because its a pure "rpg" and complete snes goodness!". No. I love it because of it's simplicity and subtle use of choice (you actually get to pick parts of the story to progress through, brilliant). In those stories I see a well structured pacing, proper moments of plot development and character growth. Lots of people will argue against me and that's their own opinion but I don't discredit another story being bad factually, just for my own tastes. There's a ton of others but a good story is found in ANY form of media. It can be a newspaper article, a short story, a novel, a western rpg, a jrpg, even an fps, any and all can produce fantastic stories. There is no "one is better than the other" in terms of such a broadly described term as "story". After all you might be pleasantly surprised depending on where you're looking.


----------



## Krory (Nov 29, 2011)

Bwuahahaha, FFXIII.

That's cute.


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## Zen-aku (Nov 29, 2011)

blazikengirl said:


> Japanese. Which other type would allow for virtual gfs


 



Krory said:


> Bwuahahaha, FFXIII.
> 
> That's cute.



in that Sad Dying puppy kinda way


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## Byrd (Nov 29, 2011)

WRPG's are indeed epic.. but none of them have affected me more so than JRPG's.. the memorable plot-twist as well as some decent villains who ended up not being entirely evil... plus the music (not saying WRPG's have bad music) but till this day i still listen to soundtracks made by games in the 90's


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

Krory said:


> Bwuahahaha, FFXIII.
> 
> That's cute.



I should tear into you...but that set....

I'mma let you go this time.


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

Byrdman said:


> WRPG's are indeed epic.. but none of them have affected me more so than JRPG's.. the memorable plot-twist as well as some decent villains who ended up not being entirely evil... plus the music (not saying WRPG's have bad music) but till this day i still listen to soundtracks made by games in the 90's



Only WRPG I played that had decent, memorable soundtrack was Summoner and the recent Deus Ex: HR.


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## crazymtf (Nov 29, 2011)

Dragon Age has epic as fuck music...and Skyrim soundtrack is great. Don't be hating.


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## DeathScream (Nov 29, 2011)

i still hope that someday i'll see a 40k WRPG game

(yes i hate FFXIII with the lesbians and the Rule63 Cloud)

for now i'll play Skyrim


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## Zen-aku (Nov 29, 2011)

Esura said:


> Only WRPG I played that had decent, memorable soundtrack was Summoner and the recent Deus Ex: HR.



































Seriously i want you to listen to all three of those start to finish and then try and repeat that sentence

EDIT: dammit Gnome you beat me to the remix


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## Gnome (Nov 29, 2011)

Esura said:


> Only WRPG I played that had decent, memorable soundtrack was Summoner and the recent Deus Ex: HR.



FU


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## serger989 (Nov 29, 2011)

I would say the JRPG that affected me most, I couldn't tell you why, is probably Tales of Symphonia on the cube. It's an okay experience for me to play now, it's not really something I can play, say, 3 times. But when I first played it it was fantastic. The first one I tried was FF1 on the NES at my cousins, though I was 4 and didn't really know what was happening... I got Phantasy Star 4 for my genesis and that was BOMB but not really something that "affected" me, it was just rock fucking solid, I personally think its one of the best JRPGs ever made. The comic book story telling method was absolutely killer, plus the macros were badass, it was an extremely fast paced and visually impacting rpg. 

Plot twists though are in most rpgs. What about finding out who you are in Baldur's Gate? Or about the rest of "them" in the game? The history of Jon Irenicus? The Reapers in ME? The relation between Phantasia and Symphonia? Plot twists are all relative but JRPGs are not unique to providing context and shock. Nor are WRPGs it's merely the form of media and choosing to look at all of them will show you that well told stories can be found in all nooks of the medium. 

Soundtracks? Boom:






































































































And that's just some random ones off the top of my head...


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> *Seriously i want you to listen to all three of those start to finish and then try and repeat that sentence*
> 
> EDIT: dammit Gnome you beat me to the remix





Gnome said:


> FU



*with straight face*

Only WRPG I played that had decent, memorable soundtrack was Summoner and the recent Deus Ex: HR. Dragon Age tracks was meh, Mass Effect's soundtrack was a bit better but meh, Borderlands meh, Oblivion meh, FO3 meh, NV meh, parts I heard of The Witcher...meh. Deus Ex: HR put all those games to shame.


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## Gnome (Nov 29, 2011)

You like Jpop.


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## serger989 (Nov 29, 2011)

^^ It doesn't change the fact that they are most certainly above decent and extraordinarily memorable. Just because you do not like them does not change this outcome. Hell most of what I posted were from actual composers with years of experience. I could never understand it when people discredit something they dislike yet promote what they do like without accepting the fact that it's merely a taste that not all share?? There's plenty of stuff I find to be "meh" yet I understand fully it may very well be quite incredible. Not my cup of tea as they say.


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

serger989 said:


> ^^ It doesn't change *the fact that they are most certainly above decent and extraordinarily memorable*. Just because you do not like them does not change this outcome. Hell most of what I posted were from actual composers with years of experience. I could never understand it when people discredit something they dislike yet promote what they do like without accepting the fact that it's merely a taste that not all share?? There's plenty of stuff I find to be "meh" yet I understand fully it may very well be quite incredible. Not my cup of tea as they say.



This is not a fact, nor was my previous statement (opinions obviously, shouldn't have to state this), which was a response to a response from a previous post of mines. Something being memorable is entirely subjective itself.


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## Sephiroth (Nov 29, 2011)

Actually posting some memorable battle and boss music from wrpgs would be appreciated, nothing comes to mind at the moment.

This theme has always stuck with me though, brings me back to the creepy ambience of the game.


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## serger989 (Nov 29, 2011)

Esura said:


> This is not a fact, nor was my previous statement (opinions obviously, shouldn't have to state this), which was a response to a response from a previous post of mines. Something being memorable is entirely subjective itself.



And yet they are deemed as memorable and loved by many brought to us by extremely talented people. Being memorable is subjective to a point, when things are being remembered by many, you cannot say "it is not memorable" but then must bring upon the fact that it is your opinion there by separating yourself from others. Explaining why what I listed is indeed above decent and memorable is not needed in much the same way that deeming the Final Fantasy theme or the things you like as memorable and most likely above decent, because they are exactly as I mentioned. Fact is if something is liked and loved by many it has already become memorable, that is just irrefutable. Derp.

Edit: The Tristram song <3


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## zenieth (Nov 29, 2011)

dont mind esura, he thinks jpop fits everything.


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## serger989 (Nov 29, 2011)

zenieth said:


> dont mind esura, he thinks jpop fits everything.



It's a good thing the world isn't a fantasy herpderp land and we have a wide _variety_ of things to choose from and explore  Jpop included, which is kind of the whole point of everything I've been talking about.


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

serger989 said:


> And yet they are deemed as memorable and loved by many brought to us by extremely talented people. Being memorable is subjective to a point, when things are being remembered by many, you cannot say "it is not memorable" but then must bring upon the fact that it is your opinion there by separating yourself from others. Explaining why what I listed is indeed above decent and memorable is not needed in much the same way that deeming the Final Fantasy theme or the things you like as memorable and most likely above decent, because they are exactly as I mentioned. Fact is if something is liked and loved by many it has already become memorable, that is just irrefutable. Derp.
> 
> Edit: The Tristram song <3


Who are they deemed memorable by? You are stating things as though they are fact because a group of people you know says it so. C'mon now dude, get over yourself. Lets not try to act as though these tracks are a bigger deal than what they are by comparing them to the FF theme (I honestly don't find it that memorable personally dude but it is to many obviously).

Only thing in your post I agree with is your last sentence.


zenieth said:


> dont mind esura, he thinks jpop fits everything.


Not everything. Just RPGs. 

Although I don't think I'd mind playing a FPS with Maximum the Hormone blaring in the background.


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## zenieth (Nov 29, 2011)

jpop doesnt fit rpgs, half of the FF series would be awkward as fuck with girl bands and synth blaring in the background.

and that's taking into account nomura's wonky dress styles of the later games.


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

zenieth said:


> jpop doesnt fit rpgs, half of the FF series would be awkward as fuck with girl bands and synth blaring in the background.
> 
> and that's taking into account nomura's wonky dress styles of the later games.



I blame getting into Persona series for my obsession of J-pop in RPGs.

Persona - Bloody Destiny (boss theme)











Persona - A Lone Prayer (random battle theme)











Persona 4 - Reach out to the Truth (Battle Theme)











This shit is awesome. Mind is full of fuck after listening to this.

EDIT: Although...when you think about it, all games would not benefit from this awesomeness. The whole atmosphere of Nier would of been ruined if it had this type of Jpop in it.


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## serger989 (Nov 29, 2011)

Esura said:


> Who are they deemed memorable by? You are stating things as though they are fact because a group of people you know says it so. C'mon now dude, get over yourself. Lets not try to act as though these tracks are a bigger deal than what they are by comparing them to the FF theme (*I honestly don't find it that memorable personally dude but it is to many obviously*).
> 
> Only thing in your post I agree with is your last sentence.
> 
> ...



It's not just me, nor the people I know. People I know don't even play RPGs, two friends of mine. Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Skyrim, Guild Wars, BALDUR'S GATE? That single game is one of the highest rated games of ALL time, don't believe me? Look it up. Their tracks are remembered by many and spoken of in not just a single spot within my own little world, but many places. Hell I can go to the store and pick up a Mass Effect or Dragon Age soundtrack. In your own words friend, "get over yourself". 

Just because your world does not encompass other things does not mean it isn't so. Mass Effect alone is just as memorable as Final Fantasy for not just the old but a new generation of gamers as well. It is what it is. With your tidbit about the Final Fantasy theme (you not liking it, but accepting many others do) merely completely proves my point on the subject matter. It's incredible discussing things in general when people refuse to acknowledge what is there :/ I mean you proved your own argument moot all by yourself O_O There is no way you cannot see that...

Absolutely astonishing.

Edit:


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

serger989 said:


> It's not just me, nor the people I know. People I know don't even play RPGs, two friends of mine. Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Skyrim, Guild Wars, BALDUR'S GATE? That single game is one of the highest rated games of ALL time, don't believe me? Look it up. Their tracks are remembered by many and spoken of in not just a single spot within my own little world, but many places. Hell I can go to the store and pick up a Mass Effect or Dragon Age soundtrack. In your own words friend, "get over yourself". *Just because your world does not encompass other things does not mean it isn't so, good lord you are obnoxious lol*. Mass Effect alone is just as memorable as Final Fantasy for not just the old but a new generation of gamers as well. It is what it is.



And I can say the same about you little dude. Anyways, I'm done with you and your arrogance.


Posting more shit I thought was interesting.

Summoner - Title Theme











Summoner - End Credits











Summoner - Boss ~ Machival











[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAIcjIZLmaE&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


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## zenieth (Nov 29, 2011)

>Using persona themes.
>Not noting that unlike most Jpop tracks atlus actually makes their own

Esura


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

zenieth said:


> >Using persona themes.
> >*Not noting that unlike most Jpop tracks atlus actually makes their own*
> 
> Esura



I know that, being the Shoji Meguro fan I am.  

Licensed or original J-pop, doesn't matter to me. Or heavy metal.


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## crazymtf (Nov 29, 2011)

Being memorable is different then being "Meh". Esura you are wrong here. I'm not saying you're wrong in disliking the music. Go for it. Half the music that is memorable I hate in general. BUT songs that live on, that a mass amount of people will remember and love, is memorable. In that case you are wrong, those songs are memorable as a huge mass likes it. Same goes for any FF theme, no matter how shitty it is. 

As for liking or disliking the music, that's all your opinion. In which is fine. But you just said Dragon Age music is meh. Ohhhh how my views on your taste keep going down and down


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

crazymtf said:


> Being memorable is different then being "Meh". *Esura you are wrong here.* I'm not saying you're wrong in disliking the music. Go for it. Half the music that is memorable I hate in general. BUT songs that live on, that a mass amount of people will remember and love, is memorable. In that case you are wrong, those songs are memorable as a huge mass likes it. Same goes for any FF theme, no matter how shitty it is.
> 
> As for liking or disliking the music, that's all your opinion. In which is fine. But you just said Dragon Age music is meh. Ohhhh how my views on your taste keep going down and down



But your post just pretty much echos my previous post, so you are disagreeing with yourself. 

I just took issue with segio or whatever acting as though the songs he listed are indisputably memorable by *everyone*. C'mon now, I know you like disagreeing with me a lot just for shits and giggles but...c'mon now.


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## crazymtf (Nov 29, 2011)

Ummmm I read his post. I don't see him saying that. I'm seeing him basically state that it's loved by many people, making it a memorable song. I think what he's saying is since it's loved by "MANY" instead of "FEW" it's a memorable song. Seeing as many love it, it would make it memorable. Not loved by all, just many. Similar to the songs you listed.


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## serger989 (Nov 29, 2011)

Esura said:


> But your post just pretty much echos my previous post, so you are disagreeing with yourself.
> 
> I just took issue with segio or whatever acting as though the songs he listed are indisputably memorable by *everyone*. C'mon now, I know you like disagreeing with me a lot just for shits and giggles but...c'mon now.



I didn't know "by many" meant everyone. To which you said "Who are they deemed memorable by?". Do you read what you say man? I acknowledge I was coming off as a dick by calling you obnoxious, which is why my post was edited before you even replied. The last edit was merely to add some songs.


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## Buskuv (Nov 29, 2011)

Shoji Meguro composes all of the music, and it has very little connection to Jpop.   Anything with some Japanese singing in it doesn't just become Jpop; I think P3 and P4 have some Jpop songs, but like one apiece, and usually during the opening/ending credits.  

He has is own style and it has worked well for all his games.


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## serger989 (Nov 29, 2011)

I'd say this song fits most rpgs  












May have been an action adventure game but dayyyuum

At the moment though for individual games the west has dominated sales in terms of rpgs this generation (and most genres). With the way the eastern industry is pushing to change though this will probably be turned around a lot sooner than people think. I mean just take a good look at Square-Enix, as a company, not just at their RPGs. Look at how much they are trying to break out of their mindset. Capcom is trying to break the mold as well. Regardless of agreeing or disagreeing with changes made in their direction, they WANT to be different, not just for sales, but to survive. Platinum games is another good example of how the industry there is wishing to break away from their perceived stagnation. Just an interesting thought.


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

crazymtf said:


> Ummmm I read his post. I don't see him saying that. I'm seeing him basically state that it's loved by many people, making it a memorable song. I think what he's saying is since it's loved by "MANY" instead of "FEW" it's a memorable song. Seeing as many love it, it would make it memorable. Not loved by all, just many. Similar to the songs you listed.



A lot of things are loved my many people. But what is that many? 100? 1000? 10000? More? "MANY" is vague. Many in relation to the population of hardcore gamers in particularly, or gamers in general? I know, semantics, but if I'm going to be harassed because I posted my opinion of what I thought was not memorable to me personally, I at least want to see some statistics or something to back up his statements.

All the songs I posted, are memorable to *me*, which is all that really matters to me in short so I don't know why this entire damn discussion began in the first place.

I'm out. I need to play some KOFXIII.


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## crazymtf (Nov 29, 2011)

Esura said:


> A lot of things are loved my many people. But what is that many? 100? 1000? 10000? More? "MANY" is vague. Many in relation to the population of hardcore gamers in particularly, or gamers in general? I know, semantics, but if I'm going to be harassed because I posted my opinion of what I thought was not memorable to me personally, I at least want to see some statistics or something to back up his statements.
> 
> All the songs I posted, are memorable to *me*, which is all that really matters to me in short so I don't know why this entire damn discussion began in the first place.
> 
> I'm out. I need to play some KOFXIII.



Well I'm judging it based off the amount the game is played/sold and the amount of views it has on sites like youtube. Yes a lot of stuff is loved by many, I never said it wasn't 

I rented KOF but haven't had a chance to play it.


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## Linkdarkside (Nov 29, 2011)

from what i played Western RPGs are way better.


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## Byrd (Nov 29, 2011)

WRPG has some epic and memorable music as well don't get me wrong but I personally cannot connect to them like
Chrono Cross/ Trigger
Final Fantasy 7
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 8
TOP
TOV
Legend of Mana
Secret of Evermore

Chrono Cross has one of the best soundtracks like ever from start to finish
It seems like I love orchestra-style music in my rpgs lol


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

Tracks are broken.


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## Byrd (Nov 29, 2011)

Chrono Cross - Life (probably the best song in the soundtrack)

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrqshH1THxE[/YOUTUBE]







Dancing Mad- FF6


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp46nNt_FIE[/YOUTUBE]




FFX- This is your Story


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5u-RTNEHio&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]




just examples


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## serger989 (Nov 29, 2011)

Byrdman said:


> WRPG has some epic and memorable music as well don't get me wrong but I personally cannot connect to them like
> Chrono Cross/ Trigger
> Final Fantasy 7
> Final Fantasy 6
> ...



I felt the same way about Chrono Cross, the soundtrack blew me away.


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## Esura (Nov 29, 2011)

serger989 said:


> I'd say this song fits most rpgs
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, you can tell from many developers in Japan that they want to meet the same success their Western counterparts have achieved but they may have a slight hurdle to overcome considering how vastly different gaming ideology and culture their gaming fanbase has. Like Krory said previously, an extremely large portion of Japanese gamers want the type of games people here will decry and bemoan as animu garbage. Doesn't help that the overall gaming market over there is decreasing (possibly due to their decreasing birth rates and other societal factors from what I heard). Also, the console market in Japan is slowly diminishing in comparison to their blooming handheld market, which makes it a bit more difficult than previous gens to try to make a game to appeal to everyone here and Japan without alienating one of their fanbases.


----------



## serger989 (Nov 29, 2011)

Esura said:


> Yeah, you can tell from many developers in Japan that they want to meet the same success their Western counterparts have achieved but they may have a slight hurdle to overcome considering how vastly different gaming ideology and culture their gaming fanbase has. Like Krory said previously, an extremely large portion of Japanese gamers want the type of games people here will decry and bemoan as animu garbage. Doesn't help that the overall gaming market over there is decreasing (possibly due to their decreasing birth rates and other societal factors from what I heard). Also, the console market in Japan is slowly diminishing in comparison to their blooming handheld market, which makes it a bit more difficult than previous gens to try to make a game to appeal to everyone here and Japan without alienating one of their fanbases.



Indeed, all the more reason why they are attempting their best to embrace change. Not all of them see it this way, but he ones that see the situation in the long term realize there is a dire decline in the current structure and the gaming market as a whole. Culture is one of the biggest things that clashes with these changes because Japan is a bit more unique in what the playerbase actually desires their games to be like. In a sense they are very isolated from the rest of the world because they outright don't embrace it (also simply not interested). 

The handheld market is also a lot cheaper for the West to bring over games to test the waters, to "experiment" if you will. It's also odd how much more Japan eats up the handheld market versus the rest of the world where it's in decline (cell phones being the obvious cause). None the less it will be interesting to see how some developers integrate create and alter franchises. I'm not exactly excited about how Capcom has dealt with DmC but whataretheycalled (heavenly sword), may surprise us. Either way, my favorite Japanese games in a long while have been from Platinum games, From Software and Atlus (they also publish a lot of wonderful things). I feel these 3 really understand the Western market (obviously there are others, these are just my favorite), it's a shame though that Platinum games hasn't experienced a ton of financial success despite the critical success, I would attribute that mainly to confusing marketing and lack of focus on marketing in general, imo.


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## Helix (Nov 30, 2011)

blazikengirl said:


> Japanese. Which other type would allow for virtual gfs



Wait for the anime-style Skyrim mods, then you can make your "waifu" (alternatively, just play Oblivion now).


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## Velocity (Nov 30, 2011)

I think I still prefer Japanese ones. They're still much more versatile. Western RPGs are still basically just sandbox games with numbers attached. I can't remember the last time I saw a Western RPG that wasn't open world. With Japanese RPGs, you have such a variety. You have your turn-based ones, ones that play like an offline MMORPG and even Action RPGs are varied in their approach (Kingdom Hearts and Dark Souls are entirely different Action RPGs, yet they're both crazy popular).

It's not really a case of Western vs Japanese, though, is it? When one takes influence from the other, learns from the other, the results are always phenomenal. Just look at Dark Souls - it is a distinctly Western game, even though it's a JRPG, and the sheer amount of polish and awesomeness in it easily makes it the best RPG released this entire generation. Even Xenoblade Chronicles doesn't hold up and that blew everything else released for the last five years clean out the water.


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## Kael Hyun (Nov 30, 2011)

JRPG's definitely, as they have better characterization and know exactly what there going to do with the Plot. WRPG's a too fickle and the characters are too dry and feel like they're just there to be there

Plus JRPG soundtracks can almost always be count on to be Epic WRPG's its hit or miss


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## Tachikoma (Nov 30, 2011)

GameFAQS thread detected


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## Malvingt2 (Nov 30, 2011)

Tachikoma said:


> GameFAQS thread detected


 Believe me, we yet to hit that status...


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## Tachikoma (Nov 30, 2011)

Malvingt2 said:


> Believe me, we yet to hit that status...


The shit on FAQs is at least hilarious (see twig vs haggling thread). I've been around long enough to know the gaming department here is worse than faqs.


----------



## Circe (Nov 30, 2011)

GameFAQs and most other gaming forums are chuunin level in comparison to BSN.


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## Tachikoma (Nov 30, 2011)

Kotaku comments can never be beat


----------



## Kaitou (Nov 30, 2011)

Tachikoma said:


> Kotaku comments can never be beat



Some Silicorena comments can be hilarious as well.


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## Buskuv (Nov 30, 2011)

Aji Tae said:


> I think I still prefer Japanese ones. They're still much more versatile. Western RPGs are still basically just sandbox games with numbers attached. I can't remember the last time I saw a Western RPG that wasn't open world. With Japanese RPGs, you have such a variety. You have your turn-based ones, ones that play like an offline MMORPG and even Action RPGs are varied in their approach (Kingdom Hearts and Dark Souls are entirely different Action RPGs, yet they're both crazy popular).



There are plenty; they're just not big.  

It's like assuming Final Fantasy is the only type of JRPG.  Bethesda isn't the only WRPG game developer.

Divinity 2: Flames of Vengeance wasn't open world in most senses, and was fantastic. Games like Knights of the Old Republic had branching story lines but were still far from sandbox.  Hell, I don't even like them that much and Dragon Ages One and Two are about as linear as they come in the Western market.  

And if you can count Dark Souls as an RPG because of a leveling system, games like Bioshock fit right into there as well.


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## Lord Yu (Nov 30, 2011)

Dark Souls is Japanese.


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## Wicked (Nov 30, 2011)

I like Japanese RPGs better but there is high quality western RPGs. It just depends what kind of game play experience you want.


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## Petes12 (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm having a tough time finding RPGs I enjoy because both western and JRPGs have common habits that I really don't like. 

western ones seem generally obsessed with choose your own adventure! type stories when I'd rather get a professional and well told, tight story with characters that aren't cyphers.

but then the part JRPGs seem to mess up is telling the story well without high melodrama or annoying cliche characters... 

and in either one combat is a real crapshoot.


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## Suigetsu (Nov 30, 2011)

why would you put the image of a game that is not even out to begin with?


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## Gnome (Nov 30, 2011)

Because putting up regular XIII is an embarrassment?


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## Helix (Nov 30, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> western ones seem generally obsessed with choose your own adventure! type stories when I'd rather get a professional and well told, tight story with characters that aren't cyphers.
> 
> but then the part JRPGs seem to mess up is telling the story well without high melodrama or annoying cliche characters...



I honestly feel that way as well. As far as this year, I felt Witcher 2 did the best in terms of accomplishing a tight story while still giving some freedom in choosing certain outcomes. Deus Ex: Human Revolution is another one.


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## Krory (Nov 30, 2011)

It was meant to tease people, because it's never coming out.

And it perfectly symbolizes the stereotypical brat of a lead character in JRPGs.


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 1, 2011)

Western RPGs: Boring gameplay, long-winded dialogue, terrible implementation.

Japanese RPGs: Better gameplay, cliche stories, anime boobs.


I will pick the one with anime boobs.


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## Gnome (Dec 1, 2011)

Yeah, but the boobs are usually on 12 year olds now, you sick old man.


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## Zen-aku (Dec 1, 2011)

Implying that WRPGS have more Long winded dialogue then a JRPG?


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 1, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Implying that WRPGS have more Long winded dialogue then a JRPG?


Many do actually if you do individual comparisons.


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 1, 2011)

Gnome said:


> Yeah, but the boobs are usually on 12 year olds now, you sick old man.



That makes it better.



So much better. 

12-year-old catgirls.


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## Violent-nin (Dec 1, 2011)

I like both for different reasons but if I have to choose then Japanese. Japanese RPG's gave the world *Chrono Trigger* after all. pek


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## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

How came there's a "Neither" but not a "both"? I wonder how different this would be with all the people saying "If I _have_ to choose"...


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 1, 2011)

In the universe of WRPGs there are really only a small handful of good games.

There are tons of good JRPGs out there in contrast.


It's obvious which is superior in overall quality, regardless of the gems in each.


----------



## Gnome (Dec 1, 2011)

I bet the game you're most looking forward to next year is a WRPG though CMX.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 1, 2011)

Actually it is.


But I stand by what I said. 

I'm talking about overall quality here. One of the best games of all time is a WRPG, but the best game of all time is a JRPG.


----------



## DeathScream (Dec 1, 2011)

Well JapRPGS always love to stereotype their characters and History, its one of the things that i hate to the depths of hell

bcuz all games its always: 

1- The Emo Kid is the leader

2- The Ms Fanservice of your team wants to loose her virginity to the Emo Leader but he's a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".), also she's Tsundere lvl 999(Aka Tohsaka standards) and she's a Jailbait or she's older, BUT! she have boobs and she's Beautyfull enough that make even the mos Hottest porn actress, Supermodel or even the Hottest girl of your school(friend coisin, fiancee or etc.) look like a Ugly Betty.

3-The Emo Villain wants to conquer the world with some dumb shit that happen in his past(better saying this is a Char Aznable Cliche) 

4 - The leader's Fucktard Friend that becames a Villain, then after a OMG TOO LAZ0r and SPArKINZ! battle, he became your ally after a Friendship no Jutsu(also he's more badass than everyone in the game)

5 - The STARSCREAMS, your team has one, the main Villain has one, even the Ms Fanservice have a Slipstream(Star-C's Female version)
6 - The Themes are always those ones who........ 

Gamer: Mother of God then Don't Fit in this game!
Gamers: But Who fucking cares the music is good.

7 - There's Always a Emo Moment, someone Closer to you die, and then we have that Gandalf's Death Cliche with everyone crying, Minus the Secondary Main characters who ignores this and say let's go.

8 - REALLY IMPOSSIBBLE WEAPONS!, Big Fucking Swords Lighter than a Fucking Broadsword.

9 - CHEAP Powers!, And yes They sell like candy.

10 - The Battles are always BORING!, the Monsters are Freakin DUMB, jesus they attack the strongest one with their best power, instead of the weakest(like the healers) one to Cripple your team.

these are some of the Main cliches of JRPG games

there's a friend of mine that sell his FFXI to FFXIII + Mass Effect games after 1 week

"man i was looking for a Good game without the Cliches from FFVII or other JRPG games, but im starting really to hate JRPG'S, bcuz C'mon its always the same Shit, they change only 1 or 2 things but is ALWAYS the same Shit, im starting to miss the good Ol' days of Chrono Trigger, Cross and FFVIII"


----------



## dream (Dec 1, 2011)

> I'm talking about overall quality here. One of the best games of all time is a WRPG, but the best game of all time is a JRPG.



And what JRPG would that be?


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

Eternal Goob said:


> And what JRPG would that be?



Probably Kingdom Hearts.

Kids eat that that shit up.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 1, 2011)

duoranger, that was probably one of the most generic bashing posts of Jrpg's I've ever seen.

I mean that shit could be copypasted anywhere.

It has points but only for the most generic of generic rpgs.

Hell the two FF's you used as an example don't even follow the cliches you mention

and aren't even similar.

Also why mention ME?


----------



## zenieth (Dec 1, 2011)

Kingdom Hearts is the single most pretentious Bulshit SE has ever made.

AND THAT'S SAYING FUCKING SOMETHING


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

JRPGs could probably start using Linkin Park for theme music.


----------



## Gnome (Dec 1, 2011)

Krory said:


> JRPGs could probably start using Linkin Park for theme music.



FFvsXIII soundtrack right thar.


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

Gnome said:


> FFvsXIII soundtrack right thar.



Half that shit would fit FFVII-X pretty damn well.  And especially XIII.


----------



## dream (Dec 1, 2011)

Krory said:


> JRPGs could probably start using Linkin Park for theme music.


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

y u so mean, Esura?

EDIT: Oh wait...


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 1, 2011)

Eternal Goob said:


> And what JRPG would that be?



FF6 duh          .


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 1, 2011)

Eternal Goob said:


> And what JRPG would that be?


Final Fantasy VI, of course.




Krory said:


> Probably Kingdom Hearts.
> 
> Kids eat that that shit up.


I'm a man, I'm 30.


----------



## Rios (Dec 1, 2011)

​​


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

I think that sums up KH perfectly.


----------



## Sephiroth (Dec 1, 2011)

duoranger said:


> im starting to miss the good Ol' days of  FFVIII


----------



## dream (Dec 1, 2011)

> Final Fantasy VI, of course.



Ah, it's a wonderful game but I wouldn't call it the best game of all time.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 1, 2011)

Eternal Goob said:


> Ah, it's a wonderful game but I wouldn't call it the best game of all time.


I would. And I just did. 


What, in your twisted mind, is the best game of all time? Seiken Densetsu III? Romancing Saga III? Chrono Trigger?


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

Eternal Goob said:


> Ah, it's a wonderful game but I wouldn't call it the best game of all time.





CrazyMoronX said:


> I would. And I just did.
> 
> 
> What, in your twisted mind, is the best game of all time? Seiken Densetsu III? Romancing Saga III? Chrono Trigger?


----------



## dream (Dec 1, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I would. And I just did.
> 
> 
> What, in your twisted mind, is the best game of all time? Seiken Densetsu III? Romancing Saga III? Chrono Trigger?



Probably Planesscape: Torment, Starcraft, Majora's Mask, Counter-Strike: Source, Earthound, or Chrono Trigger.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 1, 2011)

Eternal Goob said:


> Probably Planesscape: Torment, Starcraft, Majora's Mask, Counter-Strike: Source, Earthound, or Chrono Trigger.



Earthound sounds awesome.


Krory said:


> JRPGs could probably start using Linkin Park for theme music.



It needs Eminem and Brittany Spears.


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

>Majora's Mask
>Not A Link To The Past

I thought I _knew_ you, Fail. :nuu


----------



## Esura (Dec 1, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I would. And I just did.
> 
> 
> What, in your twisted mind, is the best game of all time? Seiken Densetsu III? Romancing Saga III? Chrono Trigger?



Phantasy Star IV, FFVII, and FFX are the JRPGs I have the most fondest memories of so I would say that they are the best personally.

Summoner and Deus Ex: HR would be the best WRPGs to me.


----------



## Sephiroth (Dec 1, 2011)

Oh wow, I actually want to rep Krory.


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)




----------



## dream (Dec 1, 2011)

Krory said:


> >Majora's Mask
> >Not A Link To The Past
> 
> I thought I _knew_ you, Fail. :nuu



A Link to the Past is a fantastic game, no doubt about that but Majora's Mask's gameplay stands up better against the test of time.  Plus I really loved the time-travel aspect and the character side-quests were amazing.


----------



## Esura (Dec 1, 2011)

I liked FFT's story but I did not like all the grinding for classes and shit. Actually, I hate grinding in SRPGs period. One of my biggest pet peeves with that genre.


----------



## Esura (Dec 1, 2011)

Sonic 3 is better than Super Mario World!

Yeah...yeah fuck Mario. Its all about the hedgehog with the tude.....GENESIS IS AWESOME!!


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 1, 2011)

Some of these posts confuse and scare me. 


PS:

Tactics Ogre > Final Fantasy Tactics


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

"I don't like unlocking awesome new unique classes, but I like listening to whiny emo-brats' problems."

That's basically what it means when someone likes FFVII and FFX more than FFT.


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Some of these posts confuse and scare me.
> 
> 
> PS:
> ...



>Pointing out the obvious

But to talk to these kids, you have to speak in terms of Final Fantasy... not games they've probably never heard of over their buster swords and keyblades.


----------



## Esura (Dec 1, 2011)

Krory said:


> "I don't like unlocking awesome new unique classes, but I like listening to whiny emo-brats' problems."
> 
> That's basically what it means when someone likes FFVII and FFX more than FFT.





Krory said:


> >Pointing out the obvious
> 
> But to talk to these kids, you have to speak in terms of Final Fantasy... not games they've probably never heard of over their buster swords and keyblades.


----------



## dream (Dec 1, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Some of these posts confuse and scare me.
> 
> 
> PS:
> ...



I've never played Tactics Ogre though I should since I loved Ogre Battle 64.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 1, 2011)

Ogre Battle 64 was pretty badass. Tactics Ogre is only similar in that they share the same name, classes, and monsters. 

And Warren. He's always in Ogre games. But everything else is different. Everything.


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

Tactics Ogre had Canopus and Mildain.

They are badasses.

Play it, Fail.


----------



## dream (Dec 1, 2011)

I'll get an emulator and play it for certain someone this month.  :33


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 1, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Some of these posts confuse and scare me.
> 
> 
> PS:
> ...


He's right.
[YOUTUBE]vwFtiNH5mWU[/YOUTUBE]


[YOUTUBE]BtC5RNaguzo[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Gnome (Dec 1, 2011)

I'm a Fire Emblem guy


----------



## Esura (Dec 1, 2011)

I hate that perma death shit.


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

Gnome said:


> I'm a Fire Emblem guy



Fire Emblem was pretty dope, though only played like three games. The gameplay was much better so it didn't leave you so complacent, so players weren't like "Oh, my little blue-haired bishie homo just died... but it's okay, I have a Phoenix Down!"


----------



## Gnome (Dec 1, 2011)

I like perm death. It actually forces me to play smarter and care about having my characters die, even if it was only in terms of gameplay.


----------



## Sephiroth (Dec 1, 2011)

I just reset if someone died.


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

Pretty much. Like every time Matthew or Legault somehow died because they're squishy thieves, I was like "WRRRRYYYYY?!"

And quick-saves were just there to screw you over.


----------



## Gnome (Dec 1, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> I just reset if someone died.



I only did that if it was early-ish into the level.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 1, 2011)

Gnome said:


> I like perm death. It actually forces me to play smarter and care about having my characters die, even if it was only in terms of gameplay.



Ogre battle 64 made them into zombies if you didn't revive them in a certain amount of time


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

FFT turns them into crystals or treasures chests after four full rotations.

Tactics Ogre kills them instantly.


----------



## dream (Dec 1, 2011)

Krory said:


> Tactics Ogre kills them instantly.



Should be fun the first time that one of my favorite characters die. :33


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

You can get a spell that resurrects them but as I recall it's at least half way through the game and only a small, small handful of people can use it (I think two story characters, maybe only one, and I think one of the classes can use it? It's been a while).

FFT you can either finish a battle or use a Phoenix Down or Revive spell until the counter is up. But once they turn into a crystal or treasure chest, they're gone for good.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 1, 2011)

Krory said:


> >Majora's Mask
> >Not A Link To The Past
> 
> I thought I _knew_ you, Fail. :nuu



LTTP

knows what's up


----------



## Krory (Dec 1, 2011)

It's Miyamoto's choice.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 1, 2011)

I never understood why some people would play tactic games like Fire Emblem, and reset right after their character dies. Doesn't that kill the tension and gimmick of the game? Other wise you might as well just play Shining Force.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 1, 2011)

I like Tactics story but I prefer Wild Arms XF as a Srpg game.

Mainly cause it actually is the only SRPG that uses strategy.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 1, 2011)

Try Rondo of Swords... it makes tactics orge or FFT or Fire Emblem look like a joke in terms of difficulty


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 1, 2011)

Byrdman said:


> Try Rondo of Swords... it makes tactics orge or FFT or Fire Emblem look like a joke in terms of difficulty



I have that.
It's rather unfair even on the first level have to do everything just right or not at all.
But you can still grind in that game, so it's not as hard as it could be.


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 1, 2011)

I grew up on JRPGs so I lean toward them. But, I also love the shit out of Fallout and KOTOR.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 1, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> I never understood why some people would play tactic games like Fire Emblem, and reset right after their character dies. Doesn't that kill the tension and gimmick of the game? Other wise you might as well just play Shining Force.


Nah.

You bet your ass whenever Canopus died in the original I reset. 

The PSP one is much more forgiving.


Byrdman said:


> Try Rondo of Swords... it makes tactics orge or FFT or Fire Emblem look like a joke in terms of difficulty


I got that. It's not that bad.


----------



## Shooting burst stream (Dec 1, 2011)

I'm going to have to give my vote to JRPGs first because it was a JRPG that not only introduced me to RPGs but gaming in general and is one of my favorite games of all time (FFX), but also because I have just found more enjoyment out of JRPGs as opposed to WRPGs. I've also really enjoyed the soundtracks of JRPGs and the general gameplay and story of JRPGs is just better IMO.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 1, 2011)

it was one even harder than that though, Hoshigami: Ruining Blue Earth.. I heard archers on that game for the enemy are like god-like and will destroy your team.. I also heard about people rage quitting


----------



## DemongGodOfChaos (Dec 2, 2011)

Meh, More of a JRPG fan, though I haven't played any in a while.


----------



## Sephiroth (Dec 2, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> I never understood why some people would play tactic games like Fire Emblem, and reset right after their character dies. Doesn't that kill the tension and gimmick of the game? Other wise you might as well just play Shining Force.



When it's a strategy game, I'm a little anal about playing the game to the best of my ability.

Instead I learn from my mistakes.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 2, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> When it's a strategy game, I'm a little anal about playing the game to the best of my ability.
> 
> Instead I learn from my mistakes.



I am too... I was extremely piss though with playing tactics ogre on gba.. a little over half my men died during the final battle.. characters I had since the beginning


----------



## Velocity (Dec 2, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> I never understood why some people would play tactic games like Fire Emblem, and reset right after their character dies. Doesn't that kill the tension and gimmick of the game? Other wise you might as well just play Shining Force.



Fire Emblem is understandable. You have a limited number of potential additions to your party and if any of them die, they're gone for good and they take their equipment with them. While just playing more carefully is obviously what you should do, it's really easy for characters to die just by putting them one square further than you should've.

So I don't hold it against people if they restart the battle from the beginning, since you often put too much effort into their growth to just give them up like that.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 2, 2011)

Considering Fire Emblem bends the laws of probability in its favor, I think its only fair I can reset my game after the computer gets 2 1% special moves in a row.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 2, 2011)

Aji Tae said:


> Fire Emblem is understandable. You have a limited number of potential additions to your party and if any of them die, they're gone for good and they take their equipment with them. While just playing more carefully is obviously what you should do, it's really easy for characters to die just by putting them one square further than you should've.
> 
> So I don't hold it against people if they restart the battle from the beginning, since you often put too much effort into their growth to just give them up like that.



Then that renders that entire mechanic useless, and you have plenty of characters in Fire Emblem. Are you guys telling me that you play the entire game with out having a single character die? Ever? Talk about excessive. 

Again, why wouldn't you just play a game where you don't have to restart every time one of your dudes die ? Cite back to my Shining Force statement .


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 2, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Then that renders that entire mechanic useless, and you have plenty of characters in Fire Emblem. Are you guys telling me that you play the entire game with out having a single character die? Ever? Talk about excessive.
> 
> Again, why wouldn't you just play a game where you don't have to restart every time one of your dudes die ? Cite back to my Shining Force statement .



Because there are only  handful of characters that aren't terrible, and you can easily level yourself into a corner later in the game with no recourse whatsoever.  If you lose one of the best characters in the game, often there's no other worthwhile unit of the class--for the rest of the game.

Fire Emblem is no joke, son.


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 2, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Because there are only  handful of characters that aren't terrible, and you can easily level yourself into a corner later in the game with no recourse whatsoever.  If you lose one of the best characters in the game, often there's no other worthwhile unit of the class--for the rest of the game.
> 
> Fire Emblem is no joke, son.


Yeah, but why would you play it over other strategy RPGS? That's what I am asking. People not coming back was probably the biggest thing that separated the early Fire Emblems from their counter parts. With out that, what is the appeal?


----------



## Byrd (Dec 2, 2011)

Fire Emblem is cakewalk compared to Hoshigami: Ruining Blue Earth.. you characters will die and you will be restarting a lot lol..


----------



## Killerqueen (Dec 2, 2011)

I enjoy JRPG more


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 2, 2011)

Byrdman said:


> Fire Emblem is cakewalk compared to Hoshigami: Ruining Blue Earth.. you characters will die and you will be restarting a lot lol..



But Hoshigami is impossible to even play. The controls are worse than trying to control a modern FPS with a 20-year-old computer multiplayer with 16 people on a dial-up modem.


----------



## Krory (Dec 2, 2011)

Why the Hell would someone play a modern FPS...?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 2, 2011)

Krory said:


> Why the Hell would someone play a modern FPS...?



Maybe they are masochists.

I think that just better illustrates my point.


----------



## Krory (Dec 2, 2011)

I remember watching my brother play old skool Doom over dial-up, multiplayer.

Shit was so cash.

What happened to those days?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 2, 2011)

Wolfenstein came in with a flamethrower and burnt up all the games.


At least that's how I remember it. Maybe it was Quake IV that blew it up with a rocket launcher.  Or Doom III via BFG.

One of those games started the downfall of classic FPS games. Last great one I played was Quake.


----------



## Krory (Dec 2, 2011)

Even Quake and Wolfenstein games until the latest one were true to form.

It was Call of Duty and Halo games that really made them take a turn for the worse.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 2, 2011)

I don't know, I didn't care for Doom III, Quake IV, or the Wolfenstein game myself.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 2, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> But Hoshigami is impossible to even play. The controls are worse than trying to control a modern FPS with a 20-year-old computer multiplayer with 16 people on a dial-up modem.



 even the remake is hard


----------



## Zen-aku (Dec 2, 2011)

Krory said:


> Even Quake and Wolfenstein games until the latest one were true to form.
> 
> It was Call of Duty and Halo games that really made them take a turn for the worse.



Don't Blame Halo For perfecting the formula

COD is garbage tho


----------



## dream (Dec 2, 2011)

> Don't Blame Halo For perfecting the formula


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 2, 2011)

**.


----------



## Zen-aku (Dec 2, 2011)




----------



## Helix (Dec 2, 2011)

Why are shooters mentioned in a RPG thread?


----------



## C_Akutabi (Dec 2, 2011)

Helix said:


> Why are shooters mentioned in a RPG thread?



A mix of CMX and Krory


----------



## Velocity (Dec 2, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Yeah, but why would you play it over other strategy RPGS? That's what I am asking. People not coming back was probably the biggest thing that separated the early Fire Emblems from their counter parts. With out that, what is the appeal?



Because I love them. I love the characters, the combat, the strategy, everything. There's not a damn thing I don't love about the game. I just simply prefer not to lose the characters I've levelled up and promoted, since I'd have to replace them with some crappy Level 3 Fighter or something.

Admittedly, they rarely ever die anyway. I only lost Lucius in Rekka no Ken once in the entire game and he was the character I was most adamant about not losing. If I lost those Fighters who join up early on, or one or two of the Cavaliers, I didn't really care.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 2, 2011)

Did anybody else lose like over half their team fighting Shaher on Tactics Ogre: Knight of Lodis


----------



## Krory (Dec 2, 2011)

Byrdman said:


> Did anybody else lose like over half their team fighting Shaher on Tactics Ogre: Knight of Lodis



No. I didn't lose anyone in TO:KoL because it was too damn easy.


----------



## Esura (Dec 2, 2011)

I hate permadeath. Kill it with fire. At least give me a chance to revive the motherfuckers like in FFT and VC, or put those motherfuckers back to the base like in Disgaea.


----------



## MrCinos (Dec 2, 2011)

In my experience:
most times, average/good JRPG > average/good WRPG.
but when it comes to the best genre has to offer, best WRPGs >>> best JRPGs.

It's a shame that 9-10/10 WRPGs (and JRPGs too for that matter) are extremely rare nowadays (and even then, they aren't what they used to be), so if I'm going to average out, they are equal to me.


----------



## Wicked (Dec 2, 2011)

MrCinos said:


> It's a shame that 9-10/10 WRPGs (and JRPGs too for that matter) are extremely rare nowadays (and even then, they aren't what they used to be), so if I'm going to average out, they are equal to me.




You should hop on the Cockrim bandwagon like every ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) is.


----------



## MrCinos (Dec 2, 2011)

^ Naturally, although it doesn't have anything with bandwagons, I've been a fan of TES series since Morrowind 

Witcher 2, Deus Ex: HR, Skyrim. This year has been actually great for WRPGs, especially compared to a few previous years. And I enjoyed these three games much more than any JRPG came out on PS3 to this moment (except for Valkyria Chronicles).


----------



## ShadowStep (Dec 2, 2011)

In this generation, WRPG >> JRPG. WRPG has games like Fallout 3, Syrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, Mass Effect series, Dragon age: Origins, Deus Ex, Witcher series, Baldur's gate series, Planescape Torment (which has the best story in any game) while squire enix has dropped the ball and releases any game with FF titles they are afraid will not have enough sales. You can google and see how their losses are skyrocketing. Probably the only _good_ JRPG game in a while is Demon's Souls.

JRPG: Very linear, few options to change things. Built to tell a single story from a person or a group's point of view. You might have to keep pressing X the whole day to get through the cutscenes which is the case in some FF games.

WRPG: Sandbox, large amount of character customization, typically involve dialogue trees, multiple outcomes to a situation, and does not have gender confused characters =P.  Tells a story, but allows the player to customize it. For example, The Witcher 2 has 16 different endings based on the player's decisions.


----------



## Esura (Dec 2, 2011)

I liked Deus EX: HR. Now thats a good WRPG right there. 

I'm oddly not too disappointed with JRPGs at all this gen, I just wish there was more to choose from (localize more plz thnk u) but, eh. I wish to god Fate/EXTRA CCC comes out here. I did my part and bought Fate/EXTRA dammit. No chance in hell though but a man can wish.


----------



## dream (Dec 3, 2011)

> The Witcher 2 has 16 different endings based on the player's decisions.



Almost every single ending was terrible/meh, there wasn't any point in getting another ending.  Rather than having so many choices I would have preferred fewer but more worthwhile endings to get.


----------



## DeathScream (Dec 5, 2011)

well taking in fact that Skyrim in japan received a Shitload of 9.5 or 10 always

i mean, its the first WRPG to take out the throne of the Big bad JRPGS there

Dear God, even famitsu gave to him the Highest note Ever(the first Western game to receive the BIGGEST NOTE EVER), even the most renown japanese RPG community gave to skyrim the top 1

and this will be probally a chain reaction for all JRPG'S companies, i can imagine in maybe 2 or 3 years a new JRPG game using skyrim or other WRPGS standards to conquer again the Public


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 5, 2011)

duoranger said:


> well taking in fact that Skyrim in japan received a Shitload of 9.5 or 10 always
> 
> i mean, its the first WRPG to take out the throne of the Big bad JRPGS there
> 
> ...


If that happened I would literally commit suicide.

I'm not even kidding.


----------



## Falcon (Dec 5, 2011)

Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Skyrim, and Deus Ex are better than any JRPG I've played. HA.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 5, 2011)

You must play some pretty shoddy JRPGs.


----------



## Falcon (Dec 5, 2011)

Hey I like those kittens, are those your kittens?

They can't compete is all. It's not that I think they're bad, or play shoddy JRPGs but not saying that I haven't played ones that are not shoddy because they all have been pretty shoddy lately. So many of them are pretty shoddy actually, ya know.


----------



## Esura (Dec 5, 2011)

duoranger said:


> well taking in fact that Skyrim in japan received a Shitload of 9.5 or 10 always
> 
> i mean, its the first WRPG to take out the throne of the Big bad JRPGS there
> 
> ...



I would not want that. If I wanted to play a WRPG I go pop in a WRPG.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Dec 5, 2011)

Falcon said:


> Hey I like those kittens, are those your kittens?
> 
> They can't compete is all. It's not that I think they're bad, or play shoddy JRPGs but not saying that I haven't played ones that are not shoddy because they all have been pretty shoddy lately. So many of them are pretty shoddy actually, ya know.



No, they're genetically engineered glow-in-the-dark kittens that fight cancer.

True story.


Anyway, most WRPGs I've played are boring. This is how I look at them:

Vast, expansive, beautifully lush environments, hundreds of long-winded dialogue options, story based on some medieval or quasi-medieval war--maybe throw in some elves, deep statistic customization, open-ended stories, mutliple play options, open world...

With the most terrible battle system possible.


If they could just make these games fun to _play _then I would love them to bits.


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## Krory (Dec 5, 2011)

Eternal Goob said:


> Almost every single ending was terrible/meh, there wasn't any point in getting another ending.  Rather than having so many choices I would have preferred fewer but more worthwhile endings to get.



Those endings were almost as worthless as Deus Ex's endings. 

But Deus Ex as a whole made up for it, being an extraordinary game in every aspect.


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## Sephiroth (Dec 5, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> No, they're genetically engineered glow-in-the-dark kittens that fight cancer.
> 
> True story.
> 
> ...



Mass Effect is pretty dam fun in combat, but it's not really rpg and more just shooter.

Bring on Diablo 3!


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## Falcon (Dec 5, 2011)

I always felt that WRPGs offered way more variety and customization which made it fun, unique and more enjoyable while still giving you those great visuals and a story. I don't mean to discredit JRPGs since they've orginally grasped me into video games even further, but it doesn't give me that same experience anymore and much of it just seems more cliched, now more than ever. At least on the level of WRPG developers being able to create something innovative.


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 5, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> Mass Effect is pretty dam fun in combat, but it's not really rpg and more just shooter.
> 
> Bring on Diablo 3!


I only played a demo of ME2 and I thought it was pretty bad. Like it's a shooter, but then it has all these weird-ass menus and shit making it not a shooter.

So I got confused and angry like a scared girl being told by a man that she's not the center of the universe.



Falcon said:


> I always felt that WRPGs offered way more variety and customization which made it fun, unique and more enjoyable while still giving you those great visuals and a story. I don't mean to discredit JRPGs since they've orginally grasped me into video games even further, but it doesn't give me that same experience anymore and much of it just seems more cliched, now more than ever. At least on the level of WRPG developers being able to create something innovative.


In some cases, sure. But those games usually have the worst combat systems in the history of the world.

One other problem they seem to have is throwing 100 systems at you with either too little explanation or they are too complex for their own good. Like crafting, potion-making, hunting for herbs for 100 hours. Then they fuck you over and have no skills or something. Or the skills are generic and garbage.

I think Diablo III might be able to successfully combine some of the more traditional WRPG systems (crafting) into a fun game seeing as how they haven't managed to fuck that up from what I've played.


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## Naruto (Dec 5, 2011)

Western RPGs all the way.


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## Zen-aku (Dec 5, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> Mass Effect is pretty dam fun in combat, but it's not really rpg and more just shooter.



It's an RPG that uses shooting as its combat mechanic, just cause you dont use swords doesn't make it not an RPG

You can build your character, like an rpg, have dialouge  options like most WRPGS, you just shoot instead of slash


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## Krory (Dec 5, 2011)

If there's not a sword as big as a building, it's not an RPG.

>True fact


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## Buskuv (Dec 5, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> It's an RPG that uses shooting as its combat mechanic, just cause you dont use swords doesn't make it not an RPG
> 
> You can build your character, like an rpg, have dialouge  options like most WRPGS, you just shoot instead of slash



It's teetering very close to the edge, though.  

ME2 had some pretty lame customization options; having a choose-your-own-adventure dialogue path and 4 upgrades per character doesn't make things an RPG, either.


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## Zen-aku (Dec 5, 2011)

you had more then four upgrades, and it was a hell of allot deeper then "choose your own adventure"

and even then, go play an actual shooter, then go play ME2 , if you still think me2 is a shooter, then your damaged. plain and simple


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## Krory (Dec 5, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> It's teetering very close to the edge, though.
> 
> ME2 had some pretty lame customization options; having a choose-your-own-adventure dialogue path and 4 upgrades per character doesn't make things an RPG, either.



At least ME3 seems to be teetering back in the right direction, though. Not as severe as ME1 with "THERE ARE POSSIBLE FOUR HUNDRED SKILL POINTS YOU CAN DISTRIBUTE INTO TWENTY DIFFERENT SKILLS. HAVE FUN, KIDS!"

Maybe ME3 can be the happy medium.


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## Buskuv (Dec 5, 2011)

I truly do hope they learned from their mistakes since they've taken a lot of flak lately (some deserved; some not) but I'm very cautious about any hype around simply because of how that machine works; they may not have Todd Howard, the Father of Lies, working on the game, but it's not like a huge, much anticipated game has let down a lot of its fans.

I enjoyed both games, honestly, but ME2 had some steps I did not care for. 

Who am I kidding?  I'm totally going to play action mode.


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## Krory (Dec 5, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I truly do hope they learned from their mistakes since they've taken a lot of flak lately (some deserved; some not) but I'm very cautious about any hype around simply because of how that machine works; they may not have Todd Howard, the Father of Lies, working on the game, but it's not like a huge, much anticipated game has let down a lot of its fans.
> 
> I enjoyed both games, honestly, but ME2 had some steps I did not care for.
> 
> Who am I kidding?  I'm totally going to play action mode.



From what the screen shots of the character menus showed, it seems they've only added a couple new skills, though they've diversified the actual upgrades - instead of "Three boring upgrades, and then a choice of one of two diverse upgrades" each upgrade gives you the choice of like five or six different upgrades. As to how diverse these are has yet to be seen (Shepard's Combat Mastery they showed you could only give a bonus to health, damage, squad damage, Paragon/Renegade bonus or varying combinations of these).

Again, not as diverse as ME1 but when you take into account that the change in ME1's skills, for all the skill points they gave you, was negligible in the end isn't much different.


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