# The Punisher vs. Revy "Two Hands"



## Raigen (May 5, 2009)

Frank Castle has come to Roanapur, Thailand to deal some vigilante justice against both Hotel Moscow and the Triad working in the area. So needless to say, Belalaika and Mr. Chang are not happy. They hire "Lagoon Co." to deal with the issue of the Punisher. Chang is busy with the home office and Belalaika is still getting things settled in Tokyo after butchering some of the local Yakuza. Revy has been itching for some action and takes on the job solo. 

Revy has her Cutlasses and a grenade launcher. Frank has an M16, two 9mm handguns and a grenade strap. Frank couldn't get all his favorite toys into the country yet, still waiting on the "Rip Off" Church to get them in. So, can the Punisher continue to deliver his brand of justice, or will Revy put down this so-called 'hero' and get her pay?


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## Raigen (May 6, 2009)

No thoughts?


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## Aokiji (May 6, 2009)

Don't use Marvel/DC street levelers against other street levellers, they are bound to win.

Frank should take this.


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## Raigen (May 6, 2009)

That's not sound logic. And street-levelers vary. I don't consider Punisher one of the better ones, just one of the more violent ones most suited to this kind of matchup.


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## FistofIron (May 6, 2009)

Frank takes this by way of being better.


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## Aokiji (May 6, 2009)

Raigen said:


> That's not sound logic. And street-levelers vary. I don't consider Punisher one of the better ones, just one of the more violent ones most suited to this kind of matchup.



Of course not.  Just a rule of thumb since Marvel/DC street levelers are so overpowered.


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## Raigen (May 6, 2009)

Uh, Marvel/DC street-levelers are not overpowered. Batman generally is because he's the "Goddamn" Batman and because DC writers suck in general. But Frank is not overpowered, just insane and has way too many guns for a guy that the government should've locked up ages ago. And I don't find Punisher being better than Revy. In terms of HTH, yeah, but as a character and reflexes? Revy's got him beat.


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## Whip Whirlwind (May 6, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Uh, Marvel/DC street-levelers are not overpowered. Batman generally is because he's the "Goddamn" Batman and because DC writers suck in general. But Frank is not overpowered, just insane and has way too many guns for a guy that the government should've locked up ages ago. And I don't find Punisher being better than Revy. In terms of HTH, yeah, but as a character and reflexes? Revy's got him beat.



I havent read that much black lagoon, but the punisher is a normal guy, even if he's a highly skilled normal guy. Without any knowledge on the opponent, in a straight shoot out wouldnt revy take this because she is superhuman as far as shooting/dodging goes? (judging by feats)

Now if we go the batman route and give the punisher prep, he uses his extensive tactical expertise to take her out without much trouble.


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## Raigen (May 7, 2009)

There is no prep and all his good shit hasn't arrived yet. Revy's not really superhuman at all, she's just really, really good at what she does. She did manage to beat Ginji, who sliced a bullet in half. They nearly killed eachother, but Revy barely pulled a win.


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## Darklyre (May 8, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> I havent read that much black lagoon, but the punisher is a normal guy, even if he's a highly skilled normal guy. Without any knowledge on the opponent, in a straight shoot out wouldnt revy take this because she is superhuman as far as shooting/dodging goes? (judging by feats)
> 
> Now if we go the batman route and give the punisher prep, he uses his extensive tactical expertise to take her out without much trouble.



The main advantages Frank has in a gunfight are:

1. His concentration. He is absolutely focused on the destruction of his enemy.

2. His pain tolerance. He's taken a shotgun blast point-blank to the chest that literally removed one of his ribs, and kept on fighting, eventually winning in hand-to-hand.

3. He is the ultimate combat pragmatist. He will not hesitate to rig himself with grenades if that's what it takes to kill the enemy.


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## Raigen (May 8, 2009)

Revy is extremely tolerant to pain. She had a bullet hole through her arm and was just concerned about settling her fight with Roberta, whom Rock commented on earlier as being like the effing Terminator. Turned into a bare-knuckle brawl between the two of them, and it was great. If Revy didn't already have to deal with a concussion from surviving that rocket explosion earlier in the episode, she probably would've come out on top. It was damn near a draw and they fought for hours.

And another thing...Revy can give sound advice.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTQSBm5A_FI[/YOUTUBE]


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## Aokiji (May 8, 2009)

That shit is everyday stuff for Frank.

You're pretty much talking about the comics version of Gutts.


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## Raigen (May 8, 2009)

Except Gutts is 1000x more badass than Frank Castle. And latest Moon Knight issue had Punisher in drag taking out drug dealers. Pretty damn funny. And I don't see Frank jumping from boat to boat while they're moving with a grenade launcher in one hand and a machine gun in the other blasting away and taking out multiple heavily armed men, all the while listening to music with a set of headphones.


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## Aokiji (May 8, 2009)

You have no fucking idea what badass means....yes killing a lot of people while not giving a shit makes you badass.


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## Darklyre (May 8, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Except Gutts is 1000x more badass than Frank Castle. And latest Moon Knight issue had Punisher in drag taking out drug dealers. Pretty damn funny. And I don't see Frank jumping from boat to boat while they're moving with a grenade launcher in one hand and a machine gun in the other blasting away and taking out multiple heavily armed men, all the while listening to music with a set of headphones.



1. Quit reading just regular 616 Punisher.

2. Read Punisher MAX.

Regular 616 Punisher deals with costumed villains by shooting them. MAX Punisher deals with hordes of gunmen by planting Claymore mines in their own front yards and then killing their wife.

And you want to see "killing a whole lot of people?"


*Spoiler*: __ 









Yeah, that's right. He just killed a whole shitload of people in fucking hand-to-hand combat while getting shot multiple times and surviving a direct napalm strike.


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## Aokiji (May 8, 2009)

He IS the comics version of Gutts.

But killing people's wives is not cool. :armcross:


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## Darklyre (May 8, 2009)

Aokiji said:


> He IS the comics version of Gutts.
> 
> But killing people's wives is not cool. :armcross:



He normally doesn't kill them...unless they're involved in whatever evil he's smiting at that particular time. Like that one woman that was involved in the white slave trade, who he threw against a skyscraper window until she fell to her death. Or the one who was making porn movies of her kids.


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## Aokiji (May 8, 2009)

I see          .


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## Raigen (May 8, 2009)

Did ya miss the episode where Revy pretty much smoked a whole shipload of Nazi assholes without even trying? Took out the cooks and staff too cause she was pissed. And the whole thing with Punisher and landmines is all prep work. Revy doesn't need that. Revy would just blow all their asses away without any fancy setups.

Start about 6min in

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti6Mk9-W33I[/YOUTUBE]


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## Aokiji (May 8, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Did ya miss the episode where Revy pretty much smoked a whole shipload of Nazi assholes without even trying? *Took out the cooks and staff too cause she was pissed.* And the whole thing with Punisher and landmines is all prep work. Revy doesn't need that. Revy would just blow all their asses away without any fancy setups.
> 
> Start about 6min in
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti6Mk9-W33I[/YOUTUBE]



That's so cool desu. pek


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## superattackpea (May 9, 2009)

Raigen said:


> That's not sound logic. And street-levelers vary. I don't consider Punisher one of the better ones, just one of the more violent ones most suited to this kind of matchup.



Frank is one of the top street-levelers no matter how you look at it. Read "Born", that's all i have to say.


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## superattackpea (May 9, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Uh, Marvel/DC street-levelers are not overpowered. Batman generally is because he's the "Goddamn" Batman and because DC writers suck in general. But Frank is not overpowered, just insane and has way too many guns for a guy that the government should've locked up ages ago. And I don't find Punisher being better than Revy. In terms of HTH, yeah, but as a character and reflexes? Revy's got him beat.



Sorry for double post but I feel I must always address this point when raised. Why should the Punisher be locked up? to my knowledge he has never killed a single innocent only the absolute scum of society that deserve fates worse then death. Off that alone he's better then police. He's someone out there, who's fully capable, making standing up for people making a difference, isn't that what everyone should aspire to do? Why would you ever want to get rid of someone like that?

Oh, and Morrison alone is reason alone never to say dc writes suck. 

I love comics.


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## Aokiji (May 9, 2009)

Dc writers sucking?


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## Raigen (May 9, 2009)

Cap America said himself that Frank should be in a cage (But Moony in a straight jacket). Most "Heroes" don't go around openly slaughtering entire gangs of teens because they're being bad. According to "the Law", Frank Castle has committed pretty much hundreds of counts of murder.


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## Lucifeller (May 9, 2009)

Half the time the Punisher has to improvise because something comes up and ruins his prep.

He still gets out of it alive. And often has to face down supervillains in the process. Given how his only powers are being a nasty piece of work, having an ungodly pain threshold and having lots of guns, the fact he actually managed to get out of a fight with Avengers members all in one piece and at least with a draw if not a victory in several occasions speaks volumes.

And it should be noted that for all that Captain America thinks he's a lunatic and should be locked up, he also acknowledges that he's by far the most dangerous 'normal' there is. Seriously, Frank nearly killed both Daredevil and Bullseye, multiple times, and usually only failed due to plot device or interferences. Given how those two would horribly rape Revy, the fact Frank can actually threaten their lives with little to no prep time (he usually ended up fighting them unexpectedly) is badass in itself.


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## Darklyre (May 9, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Cap America said himself that Frank should be in a cage (But Moony in a straight jacket). Most "Heroes" don't go around openly slaughtering entire gangs of teens because they're being bad. According to "the Law", Frank Castle has committed pretty much hundreds of counts of murder.



Thousands, actually.

His body count is like 2000+, not including the nuclear bomb he dropped on an island of criminals and mercenaries.


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## Aokiji (May 10, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Cap America said himself that Frank should be in a cage (But Moony in a straight jacket). Most "Heroes" don't go around openly slaughtering entire gangs of teens because they're being bad.



Most heroes are friggin dumb and would ostracize a fellow because she killed a subhuman ass to save the world.

Yeah, I'd prefer Frank.

Also, I think if the killings are done against murderers themselves, it's justfied.


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## Lina Inverse (May 10, 2009)

So you gave Revy her cutlass and a grenade launcher while you gave Frank an automatic weapon?

I don't care how fast Revy is, she is gonna get pwned due to Frank's M16.


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## Raigen (May 10, 2009)

Did you miss Revy's earlier piece of advice? Long as you can hit your target, pretty much any gun'll do. Revy has often dealt with machine gun users. Murderers, crooks, gang members, mafia, ex-military, rebel forces, etc etc. Roberta is ex-military, pretty badass too. Even took on terrorist assholes.

Also, Cap A only figured Frank more dangerous because he had no restrictions. He didn't care what he'd have to use to get the job done or how dirty he'd have to play it. It doesn't make him a better fighter than Bullseye or Daredevil, he just had better prep and was willing to use whatever he had to kill. In this scenario, there is no prep and Frank is dealing with someone who's not incompetent. Quite frankly Black Lagoon is one of my more favored series because they don't have super-powered people and kept things fare more realistic than most other series. Revy pushes the envelop sometimes, but even then she takes a beating when it counts.

And ya know, Revy and Chang make an awesome pair.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brdqfLov8Gk[/YOUTUBE]


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## Lucifeller (May 10, 2009)

Have you missed the part where I specifically stated that frank FOUGHT BULLSEYE AND DEVIL WITHOUT PREP BECAUSE HE DIDN'T EXPECT THEM and managed?

Frank didn't survive fights with some of the more dangerous supercriminals by being incapable of adapting. He can make up plans on the fly as well as, if not better than, Revy.

In fact, I'd argue he's better at dealing with unexpected meetings than Revy. Revy's answer to facing someone all of a sudden is 'shoot, shoot some more and keep shooting', pretty much. Frank actually devises plans on the fly and uses the environment to his advantage. And he's got enough physical fitness that even Wolverine thinks twice before starting a brawl with him, because as Logan himself explains, he'd win, but it sure as hell wouldn't be easy or pleasant.

And this is from a guy who has retarded regen and high-metahuman physical abilities...


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## Cthulhu-versailles (May 11, 2009)

I own every single issue of punisher max and have read some other stuff with punisher. That said, I really don't see why Punisher can hang with DD. I'd even go so far as to say, if Frank didn't have prep before hand, that DD and those on 'his level' would destroy Frank. I admit, he may cause them to jump around or work a bity, but they'd soon close in on him and just beat the shit out of him. Punisher is pretty good upclose with his strats and what have you, but he cannot compare to the people that are labelled as "peak-humans" (they have 100% meta-feats anyway). 

I haven't read this Bulseye vs Punisher thing, but I'd like to actually see how things went down, and to waht extent jobbing was occurring. 

Seriously. DD would beat the shit out of Frank because

*Spoiler*: __ 



DD is a pure bullet-timer, and thus faster then Frank. 
DD is a much better hand to hand fighter, period. if you want to compare trianing that should be enough. if it's not, then DD has shown more skill in every single appearance: better parrying; pressure point hitting; hits that make no sense; and various other nasty things. 
DD is way more agile. Anyone who disputes this is ridiculous.
DD is way more attuned and generally abel to deal with things due to his senses. 



-----

On topic, if both of them have 'limited standard gear' and are fighting in an enviroment with cover, I don't see it being easy either way. Revy is being completly swept under thr rug by posters. When in fact, while not as experienced, she is comparable to Punisher in the ways that count. She aimed dodged throughout the series, and her jin fight gives her a decent showing against someone at/ above her level of speed. Likewise, her shooting accuracy, endurance, and durability, are comparable to Punisher. lastly, I'd argue she's a bit more agile in the way she fights. Punisher saving grace is his experience and awesomeness. he however will nto stemroll her.

----
Punisher in Born mawning down those **** and taking the Napalm seemed to infer something """ allowed him to. I thought maybe it was his concious at first, but it's clearly some unseen mytiscal force. I suppose, if one takes that 4 issue mini where punisher became some hell-gunner, then it fits nicely. Dunno.


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## BLAKKSTONE (Apr 12, 2011)

Hello, all! New here!

Maybe it's too late for this debate...I found this page looking for a PUNISHER/BLACK LAGOON fanfic.

I have found none.

I am currently writing one. Check it out guys!


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## Lucifeller (Apr 12, 2011)

You are bad and this necro is bad.


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