# Oslo government building bombed; 76 dead in shooting rampage



## Alien (Jul 22, 2011)

> Several people have been injured in a large explosion which has damaged government buildings in central Oslo, including the office of the Norwegian prime minster.
> 
> A Reuters correspondent said he counted at least eight injured people after the unexplained blast.
> 
> ...


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## dream (Jul 22, 2011)

The pictures of the aftermath of the explosion are crazy.  I wan tto know who did this.


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## Alien (Jul 22, 2011)

some pics

*Spoiler*: __


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## Hatifnatten (Jul 22, 2011)

What the hell? Did Cloverfield Monster attacked Oslo? Looks like war footage.


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

Fucking shit. Hope nobody died.


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Jul 22, 2011)

The two people I know who live in Norway are alive it seems...


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## Hatifnatten (Jul 22, 2011)

Sasuke_Bateman said:


> The two people I know who live in Norway are alive it seems...


So Norway is entirely unharmed.


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Jul 22, 2011)

Hatifnatten said:


> So Norway is entirely unharmed.



Completely, Russian.


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## The Space Cowboy (Jul 22, 2011)

Huh.  Terrorist bombing.  What a dick move.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 22, 2011)

... Its Obama he wants a war to get his country out of debt.


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## Byakuya (Jul 22, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _more pics_


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## xenopyre (Jul 22, 2011)

All that from one explosion ??


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## T4R0K (Jul 22, 2011)

Fucking mother of God ! These pics are insane.


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

In b4 fucktard Jihadists says its revenge for Muhammed carricatures


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## Mael (Jul 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> In b4 fucktard Jihadists says its revenge for Muhammed carricatures



Reuters has a possible suspicion to those angry of its involvement in Afghanistan and Libya.

I say unleash the Phantom Vikings from their tombs to wreak havoc in those lands.


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Jul 22, 2011)

From some photos some people died


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> Fucking shit. Hope nobody died.



One already did

I am afraid more will follow

As a sidenote, this is the first time ever there has been an event like this in Norway

Cant say i am too surprised since its not long ago a explosion happend in Sweden


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## Dionysus (Jul 22, 2011)

From the pictures, I can only assume people died. Just too much destruction. Unless Oslo was a ghost town when it happened.



xenopyre said:


> Wait what the fruck is that flying object in the top right corner ?



Street light suspended by wires.


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## Hatifnatten (Jul 22, 2011)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> As a sidenote, this is the first time ever there has been an event like this in Norway


I think anywhere, really.


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> One already did
> 
> I am afraid more will follow
> 
> ...



There was actually a carbomb in another Norwegian city in 1997 that killed one person, but it was done by a MC club.


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## Dionysus (Jul 22, 2011)

Government and newspaper buildings bombed? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> There was actually a carbomb in another Norwegian city in 1997 that killed one person, but it was done by a MC club.



Oh yeah, Hells Angels

I cant remember an event of this magnitude ever happening before in my country though (Since WW2 anyway)


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## Mael (Jul 22, 2011)

Dionysus said:


> Government and newspaper buildings bombed? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.



Let's find out if the survey says the truth.


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## Raiden (Jul 22, 2011)

Byakuya actually felt this through his house.

Sad .


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## Byakuya (Jul 22, 2011)




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## Byakuya (Jul 22, 2011)

Deaths have been confirmed now


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## Uzumaki (Jul 22, 2011)

If this is a terrorist attack things are going to hit the fan. 

I'm so fucking mad I want to bomb someone back. Not a single country is safe from terrorists nowadays? Fucking sucks.

And how many dead is confirmed? I know one is confirmed, but apparently there's quite a few reports saying they've found more.


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## Thor (Jul 22, 2011)

The Death Cult are at it again.


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## Darklyre (Jul 22, 2011)

Hatifnatten said:


> I think anywhere, really.



What, did you forget the Oklahoma City bombing?


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## Byakuya (Jul 22, 2011)




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## Megaharrison (Jul 22, 2011)

Just shows that nobody is off limits. Probably is Islamists but I guess we gotta wait for the claim of responsibility and/or investigation.


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## Mael (Jul 22, 2011)

So some Norwegians think this might have to do with Mullah Krekar?


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> So some Norwegians think this might have to do with Mullah Krekar?



Perhaps, allthough i doubt he was personally involved. Though i have no doubt he's smiling over this.

To people who dont know what we are talking about. Krekar is a Kurdish-Iraqi terrorist leader who lives in Norway and we cant ship his ass back to Iraq because he might face the death penalty for crimes commited there.


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## Akatora (Jul 22, 2011)

2 deaths, 7 badly wounded and quite a lot of minor injuries

that's what it's at atm right?


quite a lot of mess that 1 explosion did looking at the videos, well Terror is highly likely, a personal vendetta went out the window due to the time of day


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

Pic of lightly wounded people:


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## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 22, 2011)

Fatalities so far are 2, plus an unreported/unknown number in the buliding. Mental.


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## Mael (Jul 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> Perhaps, allthough i doubt he was personally involved. Though i have no doubt he's smiling over this.
> 
> To people who dont know what we are talking about. Krekar is a Kurdish-Iraqi terrorist leader who lives in Norway and we cant ship his ass back to Iraq because he might face the death penalty for crimes commited there.



Shame you can't execute him in Oslo.


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## Evil Ghost Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> Pic of lightly wounded people:



the way the guy on the left is bandaged almost makes the pic funny.


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 22, 2011)

Holy shit, look at those buildings. That bomb must have been almost Oklahoma City level in power.

Car bomb?


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## Megaharrison (Jul 22, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Holy shit, look at those buildings. That bomb must have been almost Oklahoma City level in power.
> 
> Carbomb?



Probably, but the terrorists placed the bomb in a much worse position. Macveigh knew what he was doing and put it in a place that let the whole structure come down. Here they probably just put the bomb next to the structure, which mainly blew out walls and they absorbed most of the blast, hence the low death count. These people were lucky that the terrorists were amateurs.


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

How the fucking hell did they get their hands on explosives anyway.....not like they sell that to the public here.


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## Evil Ghost Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> How the fucking hell did they get their hands on explosives anyway.....not like they sell that to the public here.



stole and/or smuggled it.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 22, 2011)

And now there has appearantly been gunshots at a island called Ut?ya in the county Buskerud

This and a bomb in the same day....


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## Spica (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm at Twitter. Seems like the police arrested someone and a car is surrounded, but I can't click on the news link since everything fucks up. So annoyed with Selena-fans, black/whitejokes-tweets and Phineas and Ferb flooding the TT. Urgh. 

A friend of mine wasn't that far away either, she was walking home when suddenly she heard the explosion and the windows cracked. And this was at R?dhuset.


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> How the fucking hell did they get their hands on explosives anyway.....not like they sell that to the public here.



Does Norway sell fertilizer unregulated? With that and nitromethane, McVeigh destroyed the Oklahoma federal building.


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## Megaharrison (Jul 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> How the fucking hell did they get their hands on explosives anyway.....not like they sell that to the public here.



They don't sell that kind of shit to the public anywhere. It's the mix of smuggling and homemade materials. In the IDF they teach you how to make IED's out of materials you can find at a Wal-Mart, pack enough of that into a car and hook up a cellphone detonator and you're set. You can find the recopies on the internet.


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## Dionysus (Jul 22, 2011)

From the pictures I've seen, it looks like the explosions were inside, no? I see fires inside, blown out windows, debris strewn about, but none of street craters.



Jin-E said:


> How the fucking hell did they get their hands on explosives anyway.....not like they sell that to the public here.



Maybe they studied chemistry in Norway. Fertilizer isn't the only "common" bomb making material.

Hm. Did anyone ever find those warheads that went missing in Romania?


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## Leon (Jul 22, 2011)

I was in Oslo centrum at the time of the explosion. I'm on vacation here. seriously, the shock broke tons of glass and quaked, people screaming, crazy shit.


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## Toby (Jul 22, 2011)

They made that bomb look a lot worse than it is. Yes there's a lot of damage but from what I gathered most of it is broken glass from the shockwave - and the building that was worst hit was a newspaper-building. Not sure how much the government offices were affected. All senior personnel are safe according to the news.

But this is messed up. Just came home now. I left work the moment I heard the explosions. The police were amazingly fast at getting people evacuated, and the area was shut down tight when I left. They were very professional about it and wouldn't accept help from anybody. They want the downtown area cleared now. A few people were going home in ambulances, and there have been reported casualties. Most people were hit by the shockwave and suffered some serious bleeding, but so far casualties seem very low.

From what I've read, there hasn't been any claim for who or what led to this. But this is not going to change a thing for me. This is our city, our country, and whoever did this will pay. But for all Norwegians, of all skin-colours and all religions, we're going to grow stronger from this. Because that's what a community does. We come together.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 22, 2011)

Seems casualties are low so far but this is terrible. Looks like a war just happened, hope any missing are found alive.


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## Leon (Jul 22, 2011)

I have some Iphone footage of the building after the blast. It wasn't _that_ bad really, but the shockwave was, as stated by Toby, the main source of the damage and wounded.


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 22, 2011)

Toby said:


> They made that bomb look a lot worse than it is. Yes there's a lot of damage but from what I gathered most of it is broken glass from the shockwave - and the building that was worst hit was a newspaper-building. Not sure how much the government offices were affected. All senior personnel are safe according to the news.
> 
> But this is messed up. Just came home now. I left work the moment I heard the explosions. The police were amazingly fast at getting people evacuated, and the area was shut down tight when I left. They were very professional about it and wouldn't accept help from anybody. They want the downtown area cleared now. A few people were going home in ambulances, and there have been reported casualties. Most people were hit by the shockwave and suffered some serious bleeding, but so far casualties seem very low.
> 
> From what I've read, there hasn't been any claim for who or what led to this. But this is not going to change a thing for me. This is our city, our country, and whoever did this will pay. But for all Norwegians, of all skin-colours and all religions, we're going to grow stronger from this. Because that's what a community does. We come together.



Well said, Toby. 

BTW, stay safe and take a few days vacation. :S


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Jul 22, 2011)

Toby said:


> They made that bomb look a lot worse than it is. Yes there's a lot of damage but from what I gathered most of it is broken glass from the shockwave - and the building that was worst hit was a newspaper-building. Not sure how much the government offices were affected. All senior personnel are safe according to the news.
> 
> But this is messed up. Just came home now. I left work the moment I heard the explosions. The police were amazingly fast at getting people evacuated, and the area was shut down tight when I left. They were very professional about it and wouldn't accept help from anybody. They want the downtown area cleared now. A few people were going home in ambulances, and there have been reported casualties. Most people were hit by the shockwave and suffered some serious bleeding, but so far casualties seem very low.
> 
> From what I've read, there hasn't been any claim for who or what led to this. But this is not going to change a thing for me. This is our city, our country, and whoever did this will pay. But for all Norwegians, of all skin-colours and all religions, we're going to grow stronger from this. Because that's what a community does. We come together.


 You're my third favourite Norwegian now


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

Words of wisdom, Toby. 



Black Leg Sanji said:


> And now there has appearantly been gunshots at a island called Ut?ya in the county Buskerud
> 
> This and a bomb in the same day....



Police just confirmed it, according to TV2 nyhetskanalen.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 22, 2011)

decent looking police chick



Jin-E said:


> Pic of lightly wounded people:



nice chick, dude is a porpoise.  

wat a tragedy


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 22, 2011)

9:22 AM
BBCWorld 	@ BBCWorld : Norwegian police say a person has opened fire at a youth gathering near #Oslo 

Oh dear, let's hope this isn't a Mumbai-style series of attacks.

The PM was due to attend the youth rally. The perpetrator was dressed as a policeman, according to a journalist there. Not good, not good at all.


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## Toby (Jul 22, 2011)

Ironically, I was on my last day of work before my holiday next week. I am glad I went into town today though. We are going to cope and manage this. I have gotta check on my friends who work downtown though. Some of them are journalists, but I think they all got home safe and sound.

EDIT:

That shooting took place at the young labor party's annual summer-camp. The evening post said it was a policeman who opened fire, so I am assuming that he/she was pursuing someone. Not sure what happened, but people are fleeing the island swimming home. Not that far a swim btw, but this reaction is natural what with guns rarely ever going off here.


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

Toby said:


> That shooting took place at the young labor party's annual summer-camp. The evening post said it was a policeman who opened fire, so I am assuming that he/she was pursuing someone. Not sure what happened, but people are fleeing the island swimming home. Not that far a swim btw, but this reaction is natural what with guns rarely ever going off here.



VG claims it was a fake policeman.


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## Toby (Jul 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> VG claims it was a fake policeman.



WHAT. Fucked up. Not that I know anybody who was at the camp but I should check, I guess.


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## Uzumaki (Jul 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> VG claims it was a fake policeman.



That's what I've been seeing too.


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 22, 2011)

5 injured in the shooting at the youth camp- BBC


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## Seph (Jul 22, 2011)

Wonder if Al Qaeda was responsible for this? Ayman al-Zawahari said he'd target the West.


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## Toby (Jul 22, 2011)

Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami (Helpers of the Global Jihad) have claimed responsibility


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## Hatifnatten (Jul 22, 2011)

For something supposedly without almost any casualties, TV presents it as new 9/11.
I guess the fact of explosion itself is bad enough, but still.


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## Mael (Jul 22, 2011)

Toby said:


> Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami (Helpers of the Global Jihad) have claimed responsibility



I'd like to say I'm not surprised that militant Islam was responsible, I need to see more investigation.  Any random asshole could claim they did it.


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

Toby said:


> Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami (Helpers of the Global Jihad) have claimed responsibility



Alot of Jihadi groups try to hog the spotlight after such an attack. Take any such claims with a big grain of salt.

IF(and there is a big IF) the bomb and the shootings are connected, it's probably either a AQ plot of various degree or an attack sponsored by a government(likely Libya)


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## beasty (Jul 22, 2011)

Word on the "Rumor street" is all this is over some political cartoon. SMH


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## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

Toby said:


> Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami (Helpers of the Global Jihad) have claimed responsibility



Awwwww, and here I was getting ready to blame Israel...


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 22, 2011)

beasty said:


> Word on the "Rumor street" is all this is over some political cartoon. SMH



get ur tablets out and sharpen ur pencils!!


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

Regarding the shooting in Ut?ya, there is some confusion. Dagbladet(A newspaper) claims in it's headline that 4 people have been killed in that incident, yet the article itself states that they have been shot, with no words on their condition.


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## Enigma (Jul 22, 2011)

Why the fuck would someone want to attack Oslo?


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 22, 2011)

4 people dead at Ut?ya appearantly...


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 22, 2011)

Enigma said:


> Why the fuck would someone want to attack Oslo?



nah i mean

i first heard of oslo in an abba song


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## Mael (Jul 22, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Awwwww, and here I was getting ready to blame Israel...



Party's over for you, buster.


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## Xyloxi (Jul 22, 2011)

I just assumed some drunk Swedes got a bit out of hand.


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## dream (Jul 22, 2011)

Enigma said:


> Why the fuck would someone want to attack Oslo?



Could be for any number of reasons.  It might have been an easier target than other places for a terrorist group or someone was annoyed with some action that Norway took/is taking.


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## Mael (Jul 22, 2011)

Eternal Fail said:


> Could be for any number of reasons.  It might have been an easier target than other places for a terrorist group or someone was annoyed with some action that Norway took/is taking.



Some theorize that the possibly softer stance some nations have on security and policing mixed with domestic policy, they're simply easier targets.  If it's as big fish group, mayhap the US or France was harder.

Regardless...welcome to more hardship and paranoia, Muslims of Europe.


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## Hatifnatten (Jul 22, 2011)

They sure archived nothing with that...


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 22, 2011)

norway should bomb AQ in somalia for revenge.


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## Mael (Jul 22, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> norway should bomb AQ in somalia for revenge.



Considering AQ in Somalia is banning food aid, why not?


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## Toby (Jul 22, 2011)

I've seen some big choppers in my time. But they've brought out an ocean rig chopper here. It's huge. I think they are going to pick up people on the island. There was a guy on TV who said that they arrested the fake cop.


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## Kikyo (Jul 22, 2011)

Enigma said:


> Why the fuck would someone want to attack Oslo?



From: 



> CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank said it was far too early to draw any conclusions on whether it was terrorism and who would carry it out. But, he said, by looking at the extent of the damage, it was plain to see the hallmarks of a major attack.
> 
> Cruickshank said that in recent months, there had been increased "chatter" about Norway, which had been investigating militants suspected of being linked to al Qaeda.
> 
> ...


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> Considering AQ in Somalia is banning food aid, why not?



super serial.  bush wasted his chance deposing harmless sadaam when we could have taken care of the Somalia AQ problem 8 years ago.  

If westerners are serious about their tough talk against al qaeda, run em down everywhere.


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Jul 22, 2011)

Maybe they want the oil


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## Hatifnatten (Jul 22, 2011)

Kikyo said:


> From:



Looks about right.


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Jul 22, 2011)

Place looks empty. Probably for the best, also the weather there reminds me of here in England...miserable.


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## chauronity (Jul 22, 2011)

As a Finnish person and (we're neightbors of Norway), I'm totally shocked about the bombing in Oslo and Face-cop event. Condolences.

This gotta be terrorism, Al Qaida perhaps. I bet it's those turbanheads.


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## Hidan (Jul 22, 2011)

Just watched a report on it on TV, tztztztz


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## emROARS (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm just glad the Prime Minister wasn't in in/near the building at the time. Imagine if he was caught in the blast?


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## chauronity (Jul 22, 2011)

emROARS said:


> I'm just glad the Prime Minister wasn't in in/near the building at the time. Imagine if he was caught in the blast?



That's what they desired thought. 100%:ly.


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## emROARS (Jul 22, 2011)

chauronity said:


> That's what they desired thought. 100%:ly.



It must have been serious them. Even in the 7/7 and 9/11 they weren't aiming for the leader of the country, not like this. 

You could even say this was might have been an assassination attempt with bystanders as extra's


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

The shooter was described as a "White Nordic man"

That raises an important question. The Labour Party's Youth Organization(who held a convention on Ut?ya at that time) is seen as pro-Muslim and Pro-Palestinian. Perhaps the shooter was a lone right-wing nut who went out on a shooting spree to "avenge" the bombing. 

Could be an Norwegian convert....or a Chechen too of course.


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## Saufsoldat (Jul 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> The shooter was described as a "White Nordic man"
> 
> That raises an important question. The Labour Party's Youth Organization(who held a convention on Ut?ya at that time) is seen as pro-Muslim and Pro-Palestinian. Perhaps the shooter was a lone right-wing nut who went out on a shooting spree to "avenge" the bombing.
> 
> Could be an Norwegian convert....or a Chechen too of course.



The whole fake cop thing makes it pretty unlikely that it was in reaction to the bombing, I doubt he'd take the time to disguise as a cop and to go to that rally when he could've just gone to some local mosque and shoot up the place.


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## Federer (Jul 22, 2011)

This is tragic.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 22, 2011)

There is appearantly a bomb-threat towards the national airport Gardermoen

Evacuation is ongoing


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> There is appearantly a bomb-threat towards the national airport Gardermoen
> 
> Evacuation is ongoing



You have a Link?


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## Coteaz (Jul 22, 2011)

Shame, but that is the cost of an unstable and out-of-control Middle East.


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## emROARS (Jul 22, 2011)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> There is appearantly a bomb-threat towards the national airport Gardermoen
> 
> Evacuation is ongoing



..........


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> You have a Link?



Waiting on confirmation

You can watch how the activity is there here though:


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Waiting on confirmation
> 
> You can watch how the activity is there here though:



I was there less than a week ago, and the Ut?ya shooting happened in my county....

Feels weird.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 22, 2011)

People who tried to swim away from Ut?ya are being shown dead in the water right now 

Edit: Appearantly as many as 30 (!) killed at Ut?ya

Holy shit


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## Hatifnatten (Jul 22, 2011)

Airport threat's probably a dud by some wiseass. Those guys just blow stuff up with no warning.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 22, 2011)

The police are now confirming that they have reason to believe that both incidents are connected

From what i see now it seems more and more likely that the attacks are politicaly motivated, aimed at the current ruling government

I mean, the youth party of the biggest political party had their camp at Ut?ya


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> People who tried to swim away from Ut?ya are being shown dead in the water right now
> 
> Edit: Appearantly as many as 30 (!) killed at Ut?ya
> 
> Holy shit



Not confirmed yet, i think.

But yeah....Holy mother of god if it's true....A fucking slaughter


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 22, 2011)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> People who tried to swim away from Ut?ya are being shown dead in the water right now
> 
> Edit: Appearantly as many as 30 (!) killed at Ut?ya
> 
> Holy shit



Christ. A bloodbath by the sound of it. Hopefully quick and painless. 

The gunman should be skinned alive.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 22, 2011)

... This non sense would have never happened had The US simply Nuked Afghanistan back in 2001 but considering how the executive branch was occupied by a bunch of castrated dunces is it any wonder we're in the predicimant we are now...


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## sadated_peon (Jul 22, 2011)

Toby said:


> From what I've read, there hasn't been any claim for who or what led to this. But this is not going to change a thing for me. This is our city, our country, *and whoever did this will pay.* But for all Norwegians, of all skin-colours and all religions, we're going to grow stronger from this. Because that's what a community does. We come together.


Yea, it's all fun and games until it happens to you.


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## Mael (Jul 22, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> ... This non sense would have never happened had The US simply Nuked Afghanistan back in 2001 but considering how the executive branch was occupied by a bunch of castrated dunces is it any wonder we're in the predicimant we are now...



Shut the fuck up please.


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## chauronity (Jul 22, 2011)

emROARS said:


> It must have been serious them. Even in the 7/7 and 9/11 they weren't aiming for the leader of the country, not like this.
> 
> You could even say this was might have been an assassination attempt with bystanders as extra's



Yeah, i know. 

The prime minister was supposed to be on the camp where the shootings happened. Talk about coincidence? Think NOT!


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## beasty (Jul 22, 2011)

NSFW


20-30 people are presumed dead during a shooting at an island in Norway.(Unofficial)

Edit: Unknown package has been discovered causing all trains to stop according to the BBC.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 22, 2011)

Its true that had the US Nuked Afghanistan and Iraq those animals would have been sent running back into their caves but no no not one amongst them had the nerves to press the RED button that would have solved everyone's problem it certainly would have kept what happened in Oslo from having happened thats for sure...


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 22, 2011)

beasty said:


> NSFW
> 
> 
> 20-30 people are presumed dead during a shooting at an island in Norway.



Oh man. That looks bad.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 22, 2011)

beasty said:


> NSFW
> 
> 
> 20-30 people are presumed dead during a shooting at an island in Norway.



Looks photoshopped whats the point of showing dead bodies if you're going to blurr them hmmmm...


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## Hatifnatten (Jul 22, 2011)

That's just fucked up, seriously.


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## chauronity (Jul 22, 2011)

beasty said:


> NSFW
> 
> 
> 20-30 people are presumed dead during a shooting at an island in Norway.



Please tell me that the shooter is alive? He/She gonna PAY ... BIG TIME!


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 22, 2011)

^ Yeah, he has been arrested


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 22, 2011)

The Shooter works for the government its all to destract the people from the fact that their country is broke...


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## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

^ Cant someone ban this fucking idiot?


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## Mael (Jul 22, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> The Shooter works for the government its all to destract the people from the fact that their country is broke...



Dude...shut your whore mouth.


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## AfterGlow (Jul 22, 2011)

Ansar al-Jihad Al-Alami stated they are responsible, but later retracted it.



> This was posted by Abu Sulayman al-Nasir to the Arabic jihadi forum, Shmukh, around 10:30am EST (thread 118187).  Shmukh is the main forum for Arabic-speaking jihadis who support al-Qaeda.  Since the thread is now inaccessible (either locked or taken down), I am posting it here.  I don’t have time at the moment to translate the whole thing but I translated the most important bits on twitter.
> 
> Update: Abu Sulayman has now issued a retraction, stating clearly that “Helpers” was not involved in the operation and that his statement was not an official statement. He says those who carried out the attacks “must surely be known to all.”
> 
> ...


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 22, 2011)

I think we should consider reinforcing the death penalty for this one....


----------



## kayanathera (Jul 22, 2011)

Why the hell everybody is speculating instead of waiting for more proof as to who did this?gather all the pieces and then come to a conclusion, or is this much too logical?


----------



## AfterGlow (Jul 22, 2011)

Al-Qaeda claims responsibility as well:



> Al Qaeda-linked terrorists quickly claimed responsibility for today's attack. Abu Suleiman al Nasser, who is described by the SITE Intelligence Group as a "prominent jihadist," claimed the attack and linked it to Norway's deployment of forces in Afghanistan. Nasser also said today's attack was related to the December 2010 suicide attack in Stockholm, Sweden, that killed one person.
> 
> "Norway was targeted today to be a lesson and an example to the other countries of Europe," Nasser said in a statement released on the al Qaeda-linked Shumukh al Islam forum, according to a translation provided by SITE. "Since the Stockholm invasion we had threatened more operations and we demanded that the countries of Europe withdraw their armies from the land of Afghanistan and stop their war on Islam and Muslims. We repeat our warning anew to the countries of Europe, and we say to them: carry out the demands of the mujahideen, because what you are seeing is merely the beginning, and what is coming is more."
> 
> ...


----------



## Mael (Jul 22, 2011)

kayanathera said:


> Why the hell everybody is speculating instead of waiting for more proof as to who did this?gather all the pieces and then come to a conclusion, or is this much too logical?



Because we're already getting statements?  Fuck off.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> ^ Cant someone ban this fucking idiot?



Freedom of speach and other views clearly only apply to special needs members like you..!


----------



## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Freedom of speach and other views clearly only apply to special needs members like you..!



Brainless trolling isnt allowed, genius.


----------



## Sesha (Jul 22, 2011)

> "You have moments to get your soldiers out of the tomb of Khorasan, else you will see blood flow in the streets," Amir Grozny said in a post at the Shumukh al Islam forum, according to SITE.



Christ these people are stupid. Blood is already "flowing", you dumbfucks. Abloobloo, we're scared and quaking beneath our viking helms.

All these groups are trying to claim responsibility. A bunch of cretins shouting "me first!".


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 22, 2011)

Who said it was brainless Trolling... You clearly lack the IQ to form your own opinion anyway and sense your initial response was just copying what Mael said anyway blah blah blah


----------



## Sesha (Jul 22, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Who said it was brainless Trolling... You clearly lack the IQ to form your own opinion anyway and sense your initial response was just copying what Mael said anyway blah blah blah



Just go back to scrounging the net for Berserk news or whatever you do, you dunce.


----------



## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Who said it was brainless Trolling... You clearly lack the IQ to form your own opinion anyway and sense your initial response was just copying what Mael said anyway blah blah blah



Brainless trolling or incredibly retarded conspiracy theory.

Your pick.


----------



## Sasuke_Bateman (Jul 22, 2011)

Use the ignore function, it does wonders. People dying on that island made me sad to tell the truth


----------



## Mael (Jul 22, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Who said it was brainless Trolling... You clearly lack the IQ to form your own opinion anyway and sense your initial response was just copying what Mael said anyway blah blah blah



Dude...you've always been an idiot, saying absurd shit that'd make Glenn Beck intimidated.  This is no different. Shut up.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Jul 22, 2011)

You're just feeding the troll. Ignore him and he'll go away.


----------



## Sky is Over (Jul 22, 2011)

IMO, this is one of most simple and terrifying tactics to be used by terrorist, the Mumbai-style attacks that require no real coordination, just a man hoped up on meth with ammo and explosives. Hopefully Norway will suspend any travel in and out of the country and begin searching for any possible accomplices that might be waiting to spring forth in example.


----------



## kayanathera (Jul 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> Because we're already getting statements?  Fuck off.



*"Witnesses who have managed to escape from the island, says to NRK reporters on the spot that the perpetrator had a Norwegian look. He should be between 185 to 190 cm tall and have blond hair."*

see if you can get some stem cells implanted into you brain, maybe the army is experimenting


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 22, 2011)

It is somewhat strange (from an Al Qaida perspective) that the shooter would be Nordic looking and target one political party. 

I'll wait for the police before making any judgments.


----------



## Sky is Over (Jul 22, 2011)

Okay, for all the people jumping to conclude a government conspiracy, please spare it from this thread which is focused around the horror of these attacks, and in some ways uncalled for. If you want to discuss it, whether for the sake of inquisitive knowledge or wanting get a bigger post count, make a thread in the debate corner, doing it here will only create unwanted consequences.


----------



## insanetrolllogic (Jul 22, 2011)

In respect towards Norway and the victims of todays attack try to lay of the trolling, petty bickering and far out theories. You can do at least that much, spare one thread.

Anyway, this is pretty nasty. Hopefully things stabilize now, the most important thing is that there are no more victims.


----------



## ensoriki (Jul 22, 2011)

With no real advantage that I've heard of, im going to say it wasn't a terrorist group and instead some government/company.
/oddmanout


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 22, 2011)

I doubt very much its stabalized in fact I expect that Norway will be in the news for quite some time so much so that it will cause Obama to eat up so much Tv time that no one will be able to watch tv any more as he turkeys his way to Norway for a few days blah blah the US stands behind you blah blah blah just to increase his own falltering ratings its about the only consestant thing from the Obama Administration that anyone can bank on happening...

Look at the bright side at least Norway will be emptying out all Muslims in Oslo soon enough... as I highly doubt that they'll stay in an area the Government and it citizens no longer want them in but hey look at the real estate that just opened up though and all the possible water sports to be conducted at that island...


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 22, 2011)

it's just occurred to me that oslo is not the name of the city in the abba song


----------



## emROARS (Jul 22, 2011)

beasty said:


> NSFW
> 
> 
> 20-30 people are presumed dead during a shooting at an island in Norway.(Unofficial)
> ...



Non blurred:


----------



## soulnova (Jul 22, 2011)

Bombings and shootings? The fuck is going on? !?

Any link to the shootings??


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 22, 2011)

emROARS said:


> Non blurred:



thank u emROARS 4 accuracy


----------



## Megaharrison (Jul 22, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> It is somewhat strange (from an Al Qaida perspective) that the shooter would be Nordic looking and target one political party.
> 
> I'll wait for the police before making any judgments.



Not really, they make very political attempts to try and get regime changes that suit their political objectives. Did the same thing (successfully) in Spain. 

Or it could have just been an easy target. Island with no guards and lots of easy easily frightened targets that would create a sensational media report. Palestinians often take the going after kids approach due to the ease of it combined with the psychological impact.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 22, 2011)

Like in them Slasher films when the kids should be running out the front door not up the stairs where the killer is waiting...?


----------



## iander (Jul 22, 2011)

My condolences to the Norwegians.  Hope they get through this tragedy ok.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jul 22, 2011)

I just come back home. I'm not really aware about the situation. Who did this ?? Islamist terrorists ???


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 22, 2011)

If not terrorists, its disgruntled citizens, if not the 1st 2 the likely culprit gets narrowed down real fast...


----------



## Adagio (Jul 22, 2011)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> I just come back home. I'm not really aware about the situation. Who did this ?? Islamist terrorists ???



That's the most likely option that most media outlets are choosing to focus on. I find it hard to believe that they managed to sway a national under their cause, even if he was a nutcase.

Regardless, its been a hard day for Norway. The pictures from Oslo look dreadful, that scope of destruction really is incredible.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 22, 2011)

The Norwegian PM's response is impressively calm. He said the attacks only inspire more democracy and openness, and also that the motives aren't known. He's saying they will not be cowed into political silence. 

The Justice Minister just confirmed the suspect was Norwegian.


----------



## dixie (Jul 22, 2011)

Has anyone specific owned up to it yet though?


----------



## Adagio (Jul 22, 2011)

Heh, that's surprising. The first thing I was expecting to come out of this incident was heightened security measures and regulation.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 22, 2011)

@dixie

No. The PM said not to pay attention to public claims of responsibility until the investigation is done. The police have said it's way too early to assign blame. He said not to pay attention to these groups that claim responsibility-- "don't make more of them than what they are."


----------



## Dionysus (Jul 22, 2011)

Adagio said:


> That's the most likely option that most media outlets are choosing to focus on. I find it hard to believe that they managed to sway a national under their cause, even if he was a nutcase.


It's happened before. White Western converts are wanted for their ability to slip through the profiling. (Or, at least that's the idea.) And, er, converts often follow a hardline interpretation of X.

That said, it could be any group, at this point. Nationalists, Islamists, disgruntled lepers.


----------



## dixie (Jul 22, 2011)

PM is being wise, there are a lot of groups that would claim responsibility just to highlight themselves in the wake of something like this...


----------



## Sky is Over (Jul 22, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> The Norwegian PM's response is impressively calm. He said the attacks only inspire more democracy and openness, and also that the motives aren't known.
> 
> The Justice Minister just confirmed the suspect was Norwegian.



Watching the news now, awhile ago they did find a bomb making lab in Oslo last year, here's a link to the article





> An Associated Press investigation shows that authorities learned early on about the alleged cell by intercepting e-mails from an al-Qaida operative in Pakistan and ? thanks to those early warnings ? were able to secretly replace a key bomb-making ingredient with a harmless liquid when one of the suspects ordered it at an Oslo pharmacy.


----------



## Adagio (Jul 22, 2011)

Dionysus said:


> It's happened before. White Western converts are wanted for their ability to slip through the profiling. (Or, at least that's the idea.) And, er, converts often follow a hardline interpretation of X.
> 
> That said, it could be any group, at this point. Nationalists, Islamists, disgruntled lepers.



Has it happened before on this scale? Frankly I'm ignorant on the subject and any precedents to this type of case.. I just find it hard to envisage a Norwegian national to be swayed under such movements.

The Neo-Nazi option still seems more probable to me. Time will tell.


----------



## Dionysus (Jul 22, 2011)

Adagio said:


> Has it happened before on this scale? Frankly I'm ignorant on the subject and any precedents to this type of case.. I just find it hard to envisage a Norwegian national to be swayed under such movements.
> 
> The Neo-Nazi option still seems more probable to me. Time will tell.


What do you mean scale? One person? I'm not sure how many are involved. It could be one whitie, and a number of people of uncertain lineage.

The Richard Reids, the white wives in burkas, they are not in groups, but they can do a lot of damage.

Better just to wait for more info. I expect the Norwegians will withhold a lot (comparatively) till things calm down more.


----------



## Nemesis (Jul 22, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Not really, they make very political attempts to try and get regime changes that suit their political objectives. Did the same thing (successfully) in Spain.



That was more the fact the government lied through their teath about everything that went around the attack and got deservedly kicked out because of it.


----------



## Sky is Over (Jul 22, 2011)

At the youth camp, they just found undetonated explosives. Maybe the gunman was sent to finish the job?


----------



## TenshiNeko (Jul 22, 2011)

Sky is Over said:


> At the youth camp, they just found undetonated explosives. Maybe the gunman was sent to finish the job?



Wow! that's scary.  Did they find out what was in the "unidentified package" that they stopped the trains for?


----------



## beasty (Jul 22, 2011)

Inside one of the youth camp buildings.

*Spoiler*: __ 



Holy Shit


----------



## Megaharrison (Jul 22, 2011)

I find it hard to believe a Neo-Nazi would target that group of blond hair blue eyed kids.


----------



## Sky is Over (Jul 22, 2011)

TenshiNeko said:


> Wow! that's scary.  Did they find out what was in the "unidentified package" that they stopped the trains for?



It's possible that they probably had more intended targets, and if more explosives were planted that failed to go off, it probably was a slipshod work on the terrorists part.

I have to say though, the P.M.'s speech seemed a lot better than the usual work around we get whenever something happens.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> I find it hard to believe a Neo-Nazi would target that group of blond hair blue eyed kids.



Because Muslims have never blown up Muslims and Rabin was killed by a Seven Day Adventist?


----------



## kayanathera (Jul 22, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> I find it hard to believe a Neo-Nazi would target that group of blond hair blue eyed kids.



I think you get stereotypes way too seriously, many of the poles and soviets killed by SS in WWII were blond haired blue eyed


----------



## iander (Jul 22, 2011)

I think people are spreading out blame too soon.  There isnt enough evidence to show who did this yet.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 22, 2011)

> (Reuters) - The Norwegian man detained after twin attacks in Norway on Friday that killed at least 17 people has links to right-wing extremism, independent Norwegian television TV2 reported on Saturday, without disclosing its sources.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/22/us-norway-gunman-idUSTRE76L6LZ20110722


Anders Behring Breivik


----------



## Migooki (Jul 22, 2011)

The guy's profile, if anyone's curious.


----------



## iander (Jul 22, 2011)

A christian conservative huh.  Wonder how Fox is going to spin this one.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 22, 2011)

I've just heard - I've been unplugged for most the day.  I simply cannot believe this.  My sincerest condolences to the people of Norway.  This is tragic and abominable.


----------



## Mael (Jul 22, 2011)

Christ...you've gotta be kidding me.

It's like the Norwegian McVeigh.


----------



## ensoriki (Jul 22, 2011)

People buy everything that they hear


----------



## Sky is Over (Jul 22, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/22/us-norway-gunman-idUSTRE76L6LZ20110722
> 
> 
> Anders Behring Breivik



Interesting, he's wearing a Masonic uniform. 

Well, this is very very interesting to see a right-wing terrorist spring up in all the chaos going on.

But here's what I found when looking into it. 





> Norwegian media reports describe Breivik as a right-wing extremist opposed to both Islam and multi-culturalism, and speculate that his farming business would have access to fertilizer that could be used to construct explosives.


----------



## WizzzeR (Jul 22, 2011)

you know the Iternet is sick, and you just know that this guy will become 4chan goldmine... 

seriously this is BEYOND insanity... this guys is like some Bond Villian...


----------



## Migooki (Jul 22, 2011)

It's been confirmed that this is the guy arrested, and the same man shooting 10+ people. And for the record, this guy is heavily involved with video games, as well as World of Warcraft.


It's also been confirmed that 80+ has been killed altogether during the day, and still counting..
I'm so grateful that my friends are okay.. this is just pathetic.


----------



## T.D.A (Jul 22, 2011)

His twitter acc.


----------



## Nemesis (Jul 22, 2011)

80 people killed on the island now it seem 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259356


----------



## Masato (Jul 22, 2011)

Ok First off I want to say this. My condolences to the Norwegian people and to Norway. I'm not ethnically Norwegian but I live there and have been raised here. The norwegian people are the least deserving of such a terrorist attack. They truly took me in without question, taught me a lot and became more than friends, they are simply people I can't live without. They are as a whole educated and kind. Truly amazing people who really does not deserve such a tragedy. 

Ok since a lot of the people at this threads are racist dickheads who should be banned I'll provide some information. This is taken from the escapistmagazine:



*Okie Dokie Lokie! The guy behind all this mess have been identified as a conservative christian, and extreme right wing(So much for all the islam fingerpointing). He has also pointed out in debates on the internet how he is against multiculturalism and Islam. I think it's easy to see his motivations now*

This is taken from several norwegian newspapers:

The police confirms that atleast 80 are dead. It's probably more. I read somwhere that it was a total of 87 dead. Truly a tragedy.

EDIT: The way I understood it is that he disguised himself as a policeman and approached the teenagers who were at the camp. When were close to him is when he started shooting them down and hunting them. Truly disgusting.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 22, 2011)

norwegians, my sincerest condolences for ur tragic non islamic terrorrist day.  i still think u should bomb al qaeda in somalia, but keep an eye on ur own honkies as well.


----------



## Keile (Jul 22, 2011)

Most definitely sad, but in other news the Norwegians have been waging a violent war in Libya, reportedly levying 600 bombs on the nation, which in comparison is more than was dropped by Norway during World War 2. Moreover, Norwegian troops fighting for NATO been involved in disputed child and civilian killings in Afghanistan, so perhaps we have something of a motive behind these explosions, given of course, the culprits are jihadis.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 22, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Just shows that nobody is off limits. Probably is *honkeys* but I guess we gotta wait for the claim of responsibility and/or investigation.





Le M?le Dominant said:


> I just come back home. I'm not really aware about the situation. Who did this ?? *honkeys* terrorists ???





Dionysus said:


> It's happened before. White Western converts are wanted for their ability to slip through the profiling. (Or, at least that's the idea.) And, er, converts often follow a hardline interpretation of X.
> 
> That said, it could be any group, at this point. Nationalists, *honkeys*, disgruntled lepers.





Altron said:


> My condolences to Norway. This is another reason why *honkey* Terrorist Groups should not be captured alive but killed on sight. Groups like Anon should really be doing the world a real favor and hacking/taking down *honkey* Extremist websites and forums rather than pissing off the world by messing with Sony & NATO.



hey guys, i went and edited some of ur posts that way we can all be on the same page from this point forward.   no need to thank me


----------



## Dionysus (Jul 22, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> hey guys, i went and edited some of ur posts that way we can all be on the same page from this point forward.   no need to thank me


Hey, dickface. It was a right-wing nationalist. Reread my post then you may cease trolling the thread.


----------



## Zhongda (Jul 22, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> hey guys, i went and edited some of ur posts that way we can all be on the same page from this point forward.   no need to thank me


I see many Orientalist scum in here; though sadly they cannot be lectured or made better.


----------



## TenshiNeko (Jul 22, 2011)

Is this guy the same one who set off the bomb, or was he working with someone else?


----------



## soulnova (Jul 22, 2011)

Oh my god... 80 kids on the island? 

 My goodness....


----------



## Sky is Over (Jul 22, 2011)

TenshiNeko said:


> Is this guy the same one who set off the bomb, or was he working with someone else?



They've mentioned that he was connected with both, which is impressive from an analytical standpoint. Heard the guy was going to get 21 years for the crime.

Can't find the original threads *all in Norwegian* 


> One of the eye witness accounts of a fifteen year-old girl at the camp, the man screamed "Come to me, I have important information, come to me it's not dangerous."
> 
> He killed the first few that came to him.
> 
> ...



Here are some links, and if someone knows Norwegian, feel free to correct or anything I haven't/


----------



## Mael (Jul 22, 2011)

Sky is Over said:


> They've mentioned that he was connected with both, which is impressive from an analytical standpoint. Heard the guy was going to get 21 years for the crime.
> 
> Can't find the original threads *all in Norwegian*
> 
> ...



21 years?  Just 21 fucking years?


----------



## Sky is Over (Jul 23, 2011)

Mael said:


> 21 years?  Just 21 fucking years?



It's a different system over there, but I see them making an exception with this guy.


----------



## soulnova (Jul 23, 2011)

Sky is Over said:


> It's a different system over there, but I see them making an exception with this guy.



I see a terrible "accident" happening in the near future for this guy.


----------



## Sky is Over (Jul 23, 2011)

soulnova said:


> I see a terrible "accident" happening in the near future for this guy.



Shit, just give him to us, we'll take out the trash with a smile on our face.


----------



## Madchester (Jul 23, 2011)

this is delicious


----------



## iander (Jul 23, 2011)

Stop spamming plz


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 23, 2011)

Madchester said:


> OH NOEZ ITS DOSE DAYYUM MOSLIMS AGAINN *crazy right wing white dude shoots dead 100 kids after blowing up a government building*



this god damm story doesn't even make the local news preview ad!! it's hilarious



Dionysus said:


> Hey, dickface. It was a right-wing nationalist. Reread my post then you may cease trolling the thread.



easy bra, ur post was only included cause i needed to fill up the space, it was baseline offensive.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 23, 2011)

Mael said:


> Christ...you've gotta be kidding me.
> 
> It's like the Norwegian McVeigh.



except he forgot to park the car in the designated spot for explosive accuracy...


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 23, 2011)

Mael said:


> 21 years? Just 21 fucking years?


 Its okay its just a slap on the wrist he'll be out doing what he does best in 21 years...

Boom Boom Boom...


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 23, 2011)

what kind of weapon was he using?


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 23, 2011)

... If we were to look at the events in Norway as a Drinking game who would have the higher score...?


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 23, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> ... If we were to look at the events in Norway as a Drinking game who would have the higher score...?



well, altron negged me for no reason, so he should have a pretty high score.


----------



## KazeYama (Jul 23, 2011)

Doesn't Norway have police or anything? How does one guy kill 80 people without anyone trying to stop him at all. You would think at a political camp they would have some form of security or require people to provide identification or something.


----------



## Vegeta's Urine (Jul 23, 2011)

Are there any tough gun laws in Norway?
Anyway, from what i read in CNN 7 were killed in the blast and the rest 70+ by gunfire from 1 man?

Mofo must have had some Commando type of equipment to pull that off, and where there no police there to try and stop him?


----------



## Sky is Over (Jul 23, 2011)

Vegeta's Urine said:


> Are there any tough gun laws in Norway?
> Anyway, from what i read in CNN 7 were killed in the blast and the rest 70+ by gunfire from 1 man?
> 
> Mofo must have had some Commando type of equipment to pull that off, and where there no police there to try and stop him?



Some rumors even suggest that five gunmen were involved.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 23, 2011)

...In open society;s there will all ways be a serious lack of security... the ways I heard it was the PM liked to walk the street without security detail and the dynamic duo in Oslo today were aware of it made plans to him at that youth event missed him settled for the teens instead... was set to cause more damage but lacked the extra man power to succeed in anything else yesterday... oh well there's all ways the next group to come to Oso to make Head Lines...


----------



## Kαrin (Jul 23, 2011)

Over 80 dead?... 

Jesus Christ, this is so terrible.


----------



## Aiku (Jul 23, 2011)

My God.


----------



## Evil Ghost Ninja (Jul 23, 2011)

Thethiala said:


> Terrible as it is, it almost seems that the bomb was only a decoy in order to give him free reign to do what he really wanted.



You know, now it does make sense of why he would bomb an area like that.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 23, 2011)

the guy was mad! made like a fox 

as for the 80 people he killed, that dude in virgina tech killed 30+ people using only hand guns.  a good shot in an enclosed room can rack up kills.


----------



## T4R0K (Jul 23, 2011)

I wonder how these idiots islamic extremists feel after having taken responsibility for an attack made by a Christian extremist... 

Fuck, that guy's getting only 21 years ?! Damn, Norway, I know you're all about tolerance but h? deserves none. Life for him. Well, maybe we can count on an inmate to deal some justice into his ass.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2011)

Damn, I was shocked to hear about this, someone mentioned it on Facebook.


----------



## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

The shooting is just fucked up. Why would anyone do that?


----------



## Jin-E (Jul 23, 2011)

When it was known that the shooter started shooting up a domestic political youth party, then it seemed clear that this guy was motivated by domestic political motives. Just concerned other nut jobs will follow after him. As for the technical part, this guy apparently owned a farm....so it might explain how he got his hands on bomb making materials, like fertilizers.

In some Norwegian online newspapers, there is a certain amount of posters who's insanely nationalistic, anti-immigrant and VERY hateful about our current social-democratic government. I know he was a participant in a Islam-critical website


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jul 23, 2011)

Well these things happen, it we were more tolerant they would happen less often more security and being paranoid won't help...
Considering that's the path the U.S. schools took after that one shooting despite several others happening way before it.


----------



## Toby (Jul 23, 2011)

The guy they arrested is a Norwegian citizen, and a right-wing nationalist that seems to hate Muslims. (He is also a member of the Masonic lodge but I think that's unrelated.) That explains his choice of targets: The current government, which consists of the social-democratic labor party, and their political youth's summer camp. It's a big event and I'm not at all surprised now that this guy is a right-winger. Nothing else can explain these attacks this well. 

According to what the police have further released, he faces a sentence of 21 years. This is the maximum sentence in Norway, so I wonder if this will suffice when the public outrage against him takes shape. If anything, he won't be very safe if he is released 21 years from now into a community that knows his name.


----------



## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

Norway doesn't have a life sentence? How can they just allow this idiot to roam free after 21 years?


----------



## Vegeta's Urine (Jul 23, 2011)

Just 21 yearsfor 91 murdered so far?

I gotta say, Norway is a fucked up country if thats true.


----------



## Jin-E (Jul 23, 2011)

Vegeta's Urine said:


> Just 21 yearsfor 91 murdered so far?
> 
> I gotta say, Norway is a fucked up country if thats true.



It's the maximum punishment.

That said, if he is still a threat after all those years, they can extend it.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

Thethiala said:


> He won't be released after 21 years. Here in Norway you can be detained for as long as necessary even after you've served your sentence as long as you're still considered a threat to society. *This guy will face life in prison, don't you worry.*



Why? 21 years should be enough time to rehabilitate him. How in the world would you know that he'll still be a threat after more than two decades?


----------



## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Why? 21 years should be enough time to rehabilitate him. How in the world would you know that he'll still be a threat after more than two decades?



How in the world would you know that he won't be a threat?


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## Toby (Jul 23, 2011)

We don't know IF he will be tried for only 21 years. They can make an exception in his case and keep him in house arrest after 21 years in jail or something.

Thing is, we abandoned the death penalty after we executed Quisling in the aftermath of WW2. This guy bears quite the resemblance, honestly, but we are not bringing back that punishment just for this guy. We can tolerate his existence, and if we are really cruel, we'll make him live to see how even more open-minded Norway can be. I expect police will be tearing up the remains of his business right now. He owned a vegetable store of some kind, which could explain the leads to a fertilizer-bomb. Also, it doesn't seem like a car-bomb. Internal fires in the adjacent building to the main civil service quarters suggests that the bomb(s) were planted in the government buildings. Lax security in the summer? I don't know. He would not have been able to pull this off otherwise.


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## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> How in the world would you know that he won't be a threat?



I don't, I merely contested the assertion that he will still be a threat after 21 years.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Why? 21 years should be enough time to rehabilitate him. How in the world would you know that he'll still be a threat after more than two decades?



You don't seem to get that despite what you say the argument for rehabilitation is kind of a silly one. It's punishment, you're supposed to be punished. Its not a simple treatment because the person did harm to society or others and deserves stern, strict punishment. 

Correction. He deserves a bullet between the eyes but I don't want to have to hear you crying about people being barbaric.


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## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

Thethiala said:


> Even if it turns out that he appears to be rehabilitated in the far future, they can't release him because of the possibility that he might be faking it, no matter how small it might be. This guy just did the single most lethal attack the world has ever seen by single guy, extreme precautions will be taken when dealing with him.



Bullshit, I sincerely doubt that's how the Norwegian penal system works. "No matter how small the chance", complete bullshit. There's a tiny chance for every single person in Norway to repeat what the guy did, but you don't imprison them for that.


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## The Space Cowboy (Jul 23, 2011)

Toby said:


> Internal fires in the adjacent building to the main civil service quarters suggests that the bomb(s) were planted in the government buildings. Lax security in the summer? I don't know. He would not have been able to pull this off otherwise.



He probably had some operatives in the construction or janitorial businesses.


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## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Bullshit, I sincerely doubt that's how the Norwegian penal system works. "No matter how small the chance", complete bullshit. *There's a tiny chance for every single person in Norway to repeat what the guy did*, but you don't imprison them for that.



I'm not so sure. This guy seems to be a sociopath. I don't understand how someone can kill 90 people or something and not be a complete psycho.

I really don't think rehabilitation is an option for these people, but I'm not saying that the death penalty is the best option.


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## Sky is Over (Jul 23, 2011)

IMO, I think for the just for the sanity of Norway and the impression it might leave on the people of the world they should dispose of him as an example. You don't want to give off the impression that  your homeland looks lightly upon murder or other violent acts, it could become a gateway for serious problems ahead in the future.


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## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> I'm not so sure. This guy seems to be a sociopath. I don't understand how someone can kill 90 people or something and not be a complete psycho.
> 
> I really don't think rehabilitation is an option for these people, but I'm not saying that the death penalty is the best option.



Lots of people have sociopathic tendencies, many of them politicians and CEOs. That's no reason to put someone away for life.



Sky is Over said:


> IMO, I think for the just for the sanity of Norway and the impression it might leave on the people of the world they should dispose of him as an example. You don't want to give off the impression that if your homeland looks lightly upon murder or other violent acts.



You do want to give off the impression that you're a civilized people and have abandoned such retarded measures.


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## hcheng02 (Jul 23, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Bullshit, I sincerely doubt that's how the Norwegian penal system works. "No matter how small the chance", complete bullshit. There's a tiny chance for every single person in Norway to repeat what the guy did, but you don't imprison them for that.



Note the term "repeat." Most people in Norway have not gone on a mass killing spree. Frankly, why should rehabilitation be even considered for people like this? Its ridiculous that he's only getting 21 years for killing up to 90 people. Its like saying that each of his victim's lives are only worth about a couple months of this murderer's life in prison. Its frankly demeaning the victims and insulting those left behind. 

Who the fuck came up with that arbitrary limit in prison time anyway?


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## Elim Rawne (Jul 23, 2011)

If he was a muslim extremist, Sauf would be bitching about how short the sentence is. It's a white guy, so Sauf defends him to death


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## Sky is Over (Jul 23, 2011)

> You do want to give off the impression that you're a civilized people and have abandoned such retarded measures.



That is true, and that a country looks upon crime in a more forgiving manner and doesn't have an obsessive system built upon enlarged sentences that take away lives or destroy them is a very nice prospect and shows that their government is better in line with their peoples interests, but at the same time you can't have your cake and eat it, the line has to be drawn somewhere.


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## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

hcheng02 said:


> Note the term "repeat."



Then every single violent criminal should be kept in prison for life, because there's a chance that they'll "repeat" their actions. No matter how tiny the chance, right?



> Most people in Norway have not gone on a mass killing spree. Frankly, why should rehabilitation be even considered for people like this? Its ridiculous that he's only getting 21 years for killing up to 90 people. Its like saying that each of his victim's lives are only worth about a couple months of this murderer's life in prison. Its frankly demeaning the victims and insulting those left behind.



You don't just add up the sentences victims, that sort of retarded calculation for prison sentences only works in the US.



> Who the fuck came up with that arbitrary limit in prison time anyway?



Probably people who have lived longer than 21 years, unlike most of the people here who argue for a prison sentence that they don't even comprehend.



Elim Rawne said:


> If he was a muslim extremist, Sauf would be bitching about how short the sentence is. It's a white guy, so Sauf defends him to death



It is generally harder to rehabilitate religiously motivated criminals, because often times the penal system isn't allowed to try and cure religion, but generally I've never advocated longer prison sentences for muslims than for non-muslims. Your trolling is getting lamer by the minute.


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## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

> Lots of people have sociopathic tendencies, many of them politicians and CEOs. That's no reason to put someone away for life.



CEOs and politicians and so on aren't usually stupid enough to risk going to jail in the same way this guy did. Sociopathic murderers like this guy belong in jail because there's simply no hope of rehabilitation.



> IMO, I think for the just for the sanity of Norway and the impression it might leave on the people of the world they should dispose of him as an example. You don't want to give off the impression that if your homeland looks lightly upon murder or other violent acts.



You're disgusting.


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## hcheng02 (Jul 23, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Lots of people have sociopathic tendencies, many of them politicians and CEOs. That's no reason to put someone away for life.



Most politicians and CEOs don't go around killing dozens of people. Mass murder is a damn good reason to put someone away for life, or simply take his life. 



> You do want to give off the impression that you're a civilized people and have abandoned such retarded measures.



Some would say allowing a mass murderer to roam free after 21 years is pretty retarded. I don't see how its uncivilized to execute this guy either, no more than it is uncivilized to shoot a mad dog.


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## Sky is Over (Jul 23, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> You're disgusting.



Or honest, letting this guy off with 21 years with possibility of release for terrorist acts will bring more trouble along the way.


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## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

Sky is Over said:


> Or honest, letting this guy off with 21 years for terrorist acts will bring more trouble along the way.



You suggested the death penalty. Good enough for me.


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## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

Thethiala said:


> Murdering 90+ people isn't your average crime, and won't receive average treatment. This isn't comparable to anything that's happened in Norway since the war. It's well within our laws to keep him detained for life, and the only way I can see that not happening is if our politicians want to show what a forgiving democrazy we are - basically fight hate with love.



I doubt it is within your laws to keep him incarcerated for more than 21 years if he is rehabilitated after that time, but I don't know Norwegian law so if you say so, then I don't know why people are bitching about anything.



hcheng02 said:


> Most politicians and CEOs don't go around killing dozens of people. Mass murder is a damn good reason to put someone away for life, or simply take his life.



EU countries have done away with the death penalty, so no, there's never a good reason to take anyone's life in Europe. We don't believe in premeditated killing, regardless of whether a person or the state does it.



> Some would say allowing a mass murderer to roam free after 21 years is pretty retarded. I don't see how its uncivilized to execute this guy either, no more than it is uncivilized to shoot a mad dog.



A mad dog cannot be reasoned with and cannot be rehabilitated or cured, people can be. If you don't see the difference, there's a good chance that you're a psychopath. Just saying.



Sky is Over said:


> Or honest, letting this guy off with 21 years with possibility of release for terrorist acts will bring more trouble along the way.



How so? What trouble will it bring to release a mentally stable, rehabilitated citizen?


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## pistols_for_two (Jul 23, 2011)

The max sentence is 21 yrs but they can keep him in prison indefinitely until a psychiatrist says it's safe to release him back into society.  Called 'forvaring' I think?  They could theoretically keep him jailed for the rest of his life, then. (And btw, Norway has a much lower percentage of repeat offenders than places like the UK/US, and their prisons are far nicer and geared more towards rehabilitation...but Norway has low crimes rates period).

But ugh, what a creepy, depraved right-wing nut. That he could mow down scores of teenagers, and so calmly, just because he doesn't like 'multiculturalism' and Muslims or whatever. What a sicko. The number of people he killed could equal the average number killed in Norway each year   Feel sorry for all the youths at the camp, it must have been a traumatic experience D:  The bombing as well, fortunately Oslo is a bit deserted as many will be on (mandatory ) vacation.  <333 to everyone in Norway.


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## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

> If you don't see the difference, there's a good chance that you're a psychopath.



It's really disturbing, but a majority of America thinks the same way he does.


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## Sky is Over (Jul 23, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> You suggested the death penalty. Good enough for me.



Ah, you should of just said that. I'll just say he's not really in the position of deserving any leniency from the government, or even taking up tax-payers money while he waits to be released after two decades of solitary confinement.



> How so? What trouble will it bring to release a mentally stable, rehabilitated citizen?



Will he be rehabilitated? How will the white supremacist community take it? Will it encourage further acts of terrorism, if not from the native Norwegians then possibly people coming in and out of the country?


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jul 23, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You don't seem to get that despite what you say the argument for rehabilitation is kind of a silly one. It's punishment, you're supposed to be punished. Its not a simple treatment because the person did harm to society or others and deserves stern, strict punishment.
> 
> Correction. *He deserves a bullet between the eyes* but I don't want to have to hear you crying about people being barbaric.


Sounds about fair, just do it right away though.


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## hcheng02 (Jul 23, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Then every single violent criminal should be kept in prison for life, because there's a chance that they'll "repeat" their actions. No matter how tiny the chance, right?



This line of logic only works if you go by the ridiculous assumption that all crimes are equal. If you go buy the sensible logic of different crimes requiring different sentences, then its perfectly rational to deny a mass murder who coordinated a bombing and shootout the chance to ever repeat his crimes. The man killed 90+ people, its not like he fucked up his recycling.



> You don't just add up the sentences victims, that sort of retarded calculation for prison sentences only works in the US.



Why the hell wouldn't you add up the sentences victims? You don't have to be some fancy philosopher to understand that killing 90+ people is a more serious crime - and hence needs a much more serious punishment - than someone who commits assault but never killed anyone. 



> Probably people who have lived longer than 21 years, unlike most of the people here who argue for a prison sentence that they don't even comprehend.



I'm 26 and I can comprehend 21 years just fine. What I can't comprehend is a justice system that sets an arbitrary max limit for imprisonment without even considering just how ugly some crimes can get. 

The least this guy deserves is life imprisonment with no parole in max security in solitary confinement. But frankly anything less than the death penalty is a slap in the face to the victims.


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## Toby (Jul 23, 2011)

pistols_for_two said:


> The max sentence is 21 yrs but they can keep him in prison indefinitely until a psychiatrist says it's safe to release him back into society.  Called 'forvaring' I think?  They could theoretically keep him jailed for the rest of his life, then. (And btw, Norway has a much lower percentage of repeat offenders than places like the UK/US, and their prisons are far nicer and geared more towards rehabilitation...but Norway has low crimes rates period).
> 
> But ugh, what a creepy, depraved right-wing nut. That he could mow down scores of teenagers, and so calmly, just because he doesn't like 'multiculturalism' and Muslims or whatever. What a sicko. The number of people he killed could equal the average number killed in Norway each year   Feel sorry for all the youths at the camp, it must have been a traumatic experience D:  The bombing as well, fortunately Oslo is a bit deserted as many will be on (mandatory ) vacation.  <333 to everyone in Norway.



Correct. 'Forvaring' in this case is civil commitment, (it can be involuntary commitment for the mentally ill) and extends any prison-sentence where the criminal has violated a fundamental principle of society. In cases of gross acts of terrorism, this seems the appropriate course of action.


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## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

> But frankly anything less than the death penalty is a slap in the face to the victims.



No, it's not, because unlike you, Europeans are decent and civilized enough to ask for the blood of the murderer. I don't understand how you can say that and not even consider the fact that you're just as bad as a murderer.


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## hcheng02 (Jul 23, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> EU countries have done away with the death penalty, so no, there's never a good reason to take anyone's life in Europe. We don't believe in premeditated killing, regardless of whether a person or the state does it.



You're in Libya and Afghanistan aren't you? Newsflash, war is pre-meditated killing. Saying executing a mass murderer is a wrongful killing is like saying taxation is theft.



> A mad dog cannot be reasoned with and cannot be rehabilitated or cured, people can be. If you don't see the difference, there's a good chance that you're a psychopath. Just saying.



You have to be pretty naive to think that everyone can be rehabilitated or reasoned with. The mad dog deserves more sympathy than this man because the dog didn't ask to be sick and can't really choose its behavior. This man knew what he did, and chose his path. If you respect free will than you must also respect that a man has to be responsible for the consequences of his actions. 



> How so? What trouble will it bring to release a mentally stable, rehabilitated citizen?



This is based on a massive assumption that this guy can be rehabilitated in 21 years.



Sephiran said:


> No, it's not, because unlike you, Europeans are decent and civilized enough to ask for the blood of the murderer. I don't understand how you can say that and not even consider the fact that you're just as bad as a murderer.



And there is a reason why hardly anyone takes Europe seriously anymore. 

Murder is an unlawful killing, often with malicious intent. An execution is a society fulfilling its social compact to protect its citizens from madmen like this guy. Society holds that it citizens have certain rights that cannot be violated with impunity. Naturally, the right to life is a part of those rights. Society owes it to the victims to make sure that the perpetrator of such crimes are proportionately punished. And since we don't have the means to kill one man 90+ times over, simply executing him once will have to suffice.


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

There was an uncensored, blurry photo earlier of what appears to be him surrounded by bodies. He's dressed in black and holding a gun, and there is one boy in the water putting his hands up begging. It's almost certain this man put a bullet through his head. 

He stole over 91 lives. A life sentence is more than fair. 

In a normal case, certifying someone "rehabilitated" means risking a repeat offense. And that's fine if the crime is theft or trespassing. A repeat offense with this man means another bloodbath. No thanks, keep this monster in prison. The concept of safety in civilization would lose all meaning by releasing a madman like him.


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## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

> The mad dog deserves more sympathy than this man because the dog didn't ask to be sick and can't really choose its behavior. This man knew what he did, and chose his path.



This guy is clearly mentally ill, so this logic cannot be applied.



> And there is a reason why hardly anyone takes Europe seriously anymore.



Completely empty statement with no proof, completely incorrect, etc.



> An execution is a society fulfilling its social compact to protect its citizens from madmen like this guy.



Life imprisonment protects citizens from madmen too.



> Society owes it to the victims to make sure that the perpetrator of such crimes are proportionately punished.



Personally, I'd have nothing to gain from the death of a mentally ill person if someone I knew were to be a victim. I'm sure Europeans think the same - a majority of Americans have this backward way of thinking. It's the same disturbing backward thinking when you celebrated Osama's death.


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## The Pink Ninja (Jul 23, 2011)

Rehabilitatng is only worthwhile for people who will eventually be back out in society, those who commit non-violent crimes or crimes of only minor violence.

This guys is never leaving prison except to be transfered to another prison.


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## The Space Cowboy (Jul 23, 2011)

Mmm...well, if you all could stop having a philosophical dick-measuring contest about the moral issues of crime & punishment and actually talk about the goings on related to this horrible, that would be awesome


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## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

Sky is Over said:


> *Will he be rehabilitated?* How will the white supremacist community take it? Will it encourage further acts of terrorism, if not from the native Norwegians then possibly people coming in and out of the country?



Yes, otherwise he won't be released.

And no, lack of death penalty doesn't encourage crime just as the death penalty doesn't serve as a deterrent against crime.



hcheng02 said:


> This line of logic only works if you go by the ridiculous assumption that all crimes are equal. If you go buy the sensible logic of different crimes requiring different sentences, then its perfectly rational to deny a mass murder who coordinated a bombing and shootout the chance to ever repeat his crimes. The man killed 90+ people, its not like he fucked up his recycling.



The man is not some kind of evil genius and he doesn't have superpowers anyone could carry out a similar attack, there is nothing inherent in this man that makes him more dangerous than others once he's been rehabilitated.



> Why the hell wouldn't you add up the sentences victims?



Because it's idiotic to add up prison sentences. If you do that, why not put away people for hundreds of years when they steal lots of stuff or own a lot of drugs?



> You don't have to be some fancy philosopher to understand that killing 90+ people is a more serious crime - and hence needs a much more serious punishment - than someone who commits assault but never killed anyone.



Killing lots of people isn't really worse than killing a few. Someone who runs around with his gun and shoots at people isn't a better person than someone who blows up a bomb and then runs around shooting people. The difference is mostly that the latter knew how to make explosives.



> I'm 26 and I can comprehend 21 years just fine. What I can't comprehend is a justice system that sets an arbitrary max limit for imprisonment without even considering just how ugly some crimes can get.
> 
> The least this guy deserves is life imprisonment with no parole in max security in solitary confinement. But frankly anything less than the death penalty is a slap in the face to the victims.



As I said before, people here have no understanding of time or prison in general. What you suggest is psychological torture and therefore illegal. And please don't speak for the victims, you have no authority whatsoever to do that.



hcheng02 said:


> You're in Libya and Afghanistan aren't you? Newsflash, war is pre-meditated killing. Saying executing a mass murderer is a wrongful killing is like saying taxation is theft.



Afghanistan isn't a war and in Lybia the air strikes are primarily against strategical structures, not people.



> You have to be pretty naive to think that everyone can be rehabilitated or reasoned with. The mad dog deserves more sympathy than this man because the dog didn't ask to be sick and can't really choose its behavior. This man knew what he did, and chose his path. If you respect free will than you must also respect that a man has to be responsible for the consequences of his actions.



Please don't use word like "naive" if you evidently don't know what they mean. Unless they have severe brain damage, humans can be reasoned with. The man is responsible for his actions and that's why he will be prosecuted for them.



> This is based on a massive assumption that this guy can be rehabilitated in 21 years.



No, it isn't, because if he's not rehabilitated by then, he won't be released.


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## Akatora (Jul 23, 2011)

The Ironic thing is his actions are battling fear with fear with civilians as the victims


His actions may reduce the fear of going against Jihadist demands out of fear of their own countrys right wings


which means your in a risk no matter the decission made, and if that is so the burden of going against Jihadists might be lightend due to fear battling fear...


A scary way to archive that


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## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> In a normal case, certifying someone "rehabilitated" means risking a repeat offense. And that's fine if the crime is theft or trespassing. A repeat offense with this man means another bloodbath. No thanks, keep this monster in prison. The concept of safety in civilization would lose all meaning by releasing a madman like him.



So no rapist, no killer of any kind, no person who dangerously assaulted someone and no drunk driver should ever be released from prison? If any of them repeat their offense, people could die.


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## hcheng02 (Jul 23, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> This guy is clearly mentally ill, so this logic cannot be applied.



Where does it say he's mentally ill? He's an right wing extremist, but you can be perfectly sane and still have extreme political views. 



> Completely empty statement with no proof, completely incorrect, etc.



Europe's economic club is on the verge of meltdown, its populations is shrinking, rising superpowers like China openly laugh at European pretensions on human rights, and your militaries are a joke. 



> Life imprisonment protects citizens from madmen too.



Except he isn't even going to get that either.



> Personally, I'd have nothing to gain from the death of a mentally ill person if someone I knew were to be a victim. I'm sure Europeans think the same - a majority of Americans have this backward way of thinking. It's the same disturbing backward thinking when you celebrated Osama's death.



Americans have this way of thinking because it actually has to deal with wars and violence. Unlike the Europeans, we don't have someone to mooch military protection from. 

As for this line of thinking that state sanctioned executions is the equivalent of murder, I suppose this means that fighting a war means that you are a murderer right? After all, all killing is equal. NATO is no better than Gaddafi, both of them kill civilians in war. They are morally equivalent, just like they are morally equivalent to every other country in history that has killed innocents in war - Stalin, the Nazis, the Crusaders, etc.


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## Punpun (Jul 23, 2011)

So Al-Quaeda was just dick-bragging ? 

So much for "We will avenge our chief"


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## Akatora (Jul 23, 2011)

Punpun said:


> So Al-Quaeda was just dick-bragging ?
> 
> So much for "We will avenge our chief"




guess they wanted 15 seconds in the spotlight


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## Zhongda (Jul 23, 2011)

Check out page 36 for the breakdown of what groups launched the most terrorist attack in Europe.


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## Qhorin Halfhand (Jul 23, 2011)

My condolences to the families of the victims and to the Norwegian people in general.


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## xxSasorixx (Jul 23, 2011)

I wonder how this conversation would have gone if the guy had been a Muslim?


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## Bioness (Jul 23, 2011)

More of the story here


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## The Space Cowboy (Jul 23, 2011)

You know, all this nonsense about death penalty and fairness obfuscates actual news.  I see here we have a poster who had friends at the summer camp area that got shot up.  Hence I'm going to ask everyone to please take it to the debate corner.  Create a new thread if you must but this -is- probably going to be a quickly developing event.

All death-penalty related debate is going to be purged from this thread as off-topic


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## impersonal (Jul 23, 2011)

Well, I'm up for a thread about the death penalty, if someone wants to make it.


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## Greidy (Jul 23, 2011)

I don't know what drives people to do something like this.
A girl from the town I live in is missing now, I really hope she's okay.


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## Bioness (Jul 23, 2011)

The guy who did this claimed "The summer paradise turned to hell" so he intended to fix it.


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## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

> "He asked people to gather round and then he started shooting, so these young people fled into the bushes and woods and some even swam off the island to get to safety."



That's really fucked up.


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## Jesus (Jul 23, 2011)

Only just heard about it. This is terrible. 

And yet another religious nutjob. Always the same people. Why can't they just be reasonable like everyone else?


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## Greidy (Jul 23, 2011)

He did it because of politics, not religion.


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## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

Greidy said:


> He did it because of politics, not religion.



Extreme right-wing politics and religion go hand in hand, to be honest.


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## Greidy (Jul 23, 2011)

You got a point...


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## Zhongda (Jul 23, 2011)

Toby said:


> The guy they arrested is a Norwegian citizen, and a right-wing nationalist that seems to hate Muslims. (He is also a member of the Masonic lodge but I think that's unrelated.) That explains his choice of targets: The current government, which consists of the social-democratic labor party, and their political youth's summer camp. It's a big event and I'm not at all surprised now that this guy is a right-winger. Nothing else can explain these attacks this well.
> 
> According to what the police have further released, he faces a sentence of 21 years. This is the maximum sentence in Norway, so I wonder if this will suffice when the public outrage against him takes shape. If anything, he won't be very safe if he is released 21 years from now into a community that knows his name.


Is that in the interest of Justice? I think Norway should hand him over to the ICC, save itself from embarrassingly need to change its laws or really give this guy 21 years.


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## Mael (Jul 23, 2011)

Well this is egg on a lot's faces.  I do believe I owe an apology for some.

What bothers me though is just what this guy had against the current policies.  If anything Norway never kicked up much a fuss over much save for the Islamic cartoons but that would've only solidified the Islamist rumor.

But again, he seems like the Norwegian McVeigh.


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## Jiraiyaaa- (Jul 23, 2011)

Been raining the whole day in Oslo, its like the sky is crying too.. a rly sad day for Norway


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 23, 2011)

May'be he'll 'dissappear' in a good way.


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## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

Mael said:


> Well this is egg on a lot's faces.  I do believe I owe an apology for some.
> 
> What bothers me though is just what this guy had against the current policies.  If anything Norway never kicked up much a fuss over much save for the Islamic cartoons but that would've only solidified the Islamist rumor.
> 
> But again, he seems like the Norwegian McVeigh.



Apologize for what? 

It's thanks to muslim terrorists that they're being associated with terrorist attacks and it's a muslim terrorist group that claim responsibility for the attacks, I really don't see why anyone should feel bad for assuming that it was indeed a muslim terrorist group until proven otherwise.


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## Mael (Jul 23, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Apologize for what?
> 
> It's thanks to muslim terrorists that they're being associated with terrorist attacks and it's a muslim terrorist group that claim responsibility for the attacks, I really don't see why anyone should feel bad for assuming that it was indeed a muslim terrorist group until proven otherwise.



Cuz I told someone to fuck off?


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## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Oh, so it wasn't a Muslim terror group? How strange.


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## Scyt (Jul 23, 2011)

Jiraiyaaa- said:


> Been raining the whole day in Oslo, its like the sky is crying too.. a rly sad day for Norway



Your avatar hurts my eyes 

Anyway, RIP to those who are dead. I never expected such a tragedy to happen in a country like Norway. I am really surprised.


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## Bioness (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Oh, so it wasn't a Muslim terror group? How strange.



Nope it was a right wing fundamentalist Christian, so it wasn't that strange


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## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

I wonder if Murdoch paid this guy to go on a massacre just to distract people from the phone hacking scandal.


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## Madchester (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Oh, so it wasn't a Muslim terror group? How strange.



your lack of condemnation of this white right wing wackjob is disturbingly conspicuous


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jul 23, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> I wonder if Murdoch paid this guy to go on a massacre just to distract people from the phone hacking scandal.



Are you serious ???


----------



## Punpun (Jul 23, 2011)

Guy wa sa freemason. Murdoch probably is a freemason too or has tien in it. His theory is plausible.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Bioness said:


> Nope it was a right wing fundamentalist Christian, so it wasn't that strange


Compared to the flood of Islamic attacks in the past decade, yes it is somewhat strange. 

I'd say something about deserving execution, but Cowboy shut that down whilst I slept.


----------



## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Are you serious ???



Not really, but it's a bit suspicious. Norway is maybe the best Western country to murder people in (21 years imprisonment). Both are Freemasons. It was the perfect time to do the attack. Furthermore,



This was recently posted on a Murdoch newspaper. It seems like they're trying to get attention away from the phone hacking.

I'm just saying that there are a few coincidental things but I really really doubt it.


----------



## Bioness (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Compared to the flood of Islamic attacks in the past decade, yes it is somewhat strange.
> 
> I'd say something about deserving execution, but Cowboy shut that down whilst I slept.



Norway doesn't have those kinds of laws though, however he may just "happen" to be placed with particularly violent prisoner..who "happens" to be the father of one of the victims

But I find their 21 year max law interesting, could be quite practical if people could really be rehabilitated


----------



## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

People pretend that the 21 year law is somehow strange. It only means that they must have a chance to get out after 21 years if they're rehabilitated.

In Germany it's the same but with 15 years.


----------



## Madchester (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Compared to the flood of Islamic attacks in the past decade, yes it is somewhat strange.
> 
> I'd say something about deserving execution, but Cowboy shut that down whilst I slept.



again, your lack of condemnation is delicious mmm those tears


----------



## Outlandish (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/22/us-norway-gunman-idUSTRE76L6LZ20110722
> 
> 
> Anders Behring Breivik



oh he was a mason?

figures.


----------



## Bioness (Jul 23, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> People pretend that the 21 year law is somehow strange. It only means that they must have a chance to get out after 21 years if they're rehabilitated.
> 
> In Germany it's the same but with 15 years.



Well in the United States here we will sentence a person to 433 years in prison, spending dozens of thousands of dollars a year just to keep them in there with no death penalty and no chance of getting out free....Oh did I mention their crime was drug dealing?


----------



## G. Hawke (Jul 23, 2011)

......Bloody hell.

My condolences to anyone affected by this horrific event and to Norway as a whole.

No one deserves this, no matter what your beliefs and/or convictions.


----------



## Nemesis (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Compared to the flood of Islamic attacks in the past decade, yes it is somewhat strange.
> 
> I'd say something about deserving execution, but Cowboy shut that down whilst I slept.



actually in Europe no it isn't.  While in western europe it is unusual for it to be a right wing extremist.  It is just as unusual for it to be islamic too.  

The overwhelming majority of attacks in western europe (around 95%) is actually seperatist groups, then anti homosexual groups afterwards.  While Islamic attacks may get the most media they are perhaps the least frequent.


----------



## TDM (Jul 23, 2011)

Wait, so is everybody done foaming at the mouth?


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jul 23, 2011)

Nemesis said:


> actually in Europe no it isn't.  While in western europe it is unusual for it to be a right wing extremist.  It is just as unusual for it to be islamic too.
> 
> The overwhelming majority of attacks in western europe (around 95%) is actually seperatist groups, then anti homosexual groups afterwards.  While Islamic attacks may get the most media they are perhaps the least frequent.



For me, it's normal to have Islamists terrorists in mind when you such tragedy. This mass murder is comparable with the attack in Madrid or in London, more than the attacks by separatists groups.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

xxSasorixx said:


> I wonder how this conversation would have gone if the guy had been a Muslim?



It's amusing to see the usual suspects over the first 10 pages debate people who wanted to wait for an investigation. 

Their reaction once we learned it was not a Muslim



All the more fitting that this guy had some crazy anti-multiculturalism, anti-Islam views, just like them.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

Once again, for the knobheads with Alzheimer's: A muslim terrorist organization claimed responsibility shortly after the bombing.

You can go "I told you so" all you want, but it's really kind of retarded.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Once again, for the knobheads with Alzheimer's: A muslim terrorist organization claimed responsibility shortly after the bombing.
> 
> You can go "I told you so" all you want, but it's really kind of retarded.



You believe everything some random dude posts on Islamic websites? 

People were trying to tell them it was weird that an Islamist should target a single party, and that a Nordic looking man should be the shooter. Nope, don't listen to that! It's Islam, etc.

edit- title should be updated. It's 92 now.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> People were trying to tell them it was weird that an Islamist should target a single party, and that a Nordic looking man should be the shooter. Nope, don't listen to that! It's Islam, etc.


Because Islamic terrorist groups have never used natural citizens in terror attacks, nor have they ever attacked political targets. Brilliant.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> You believe everything some random dude posts on Islamic websites?
> 
> People were trying to tell them it was weird that an Islamist should target a single party, and that a Nordic looking man should be the shooter. Nope, don't listen to that! It's Islam, etc.



The "nordic man" bit came much later and in no way invalidated the hypothesis that it's a muslim terrorist attack. Is it subtle racism or why should we assume that a "nordic looking man" can't be muslim? 

It was entirely possible that the prime minister was the target and the random shooting around just an emergency plan because he didn't show up, there was no immediate indication that the party was the target.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Because Islamic terrorist groups have never used natural citizens in terror attacks, nor have they ever attacked political targets. Brilliant.



They typically do not in the major attacks on the West. Look at the major ones in Madrid, London, NYC-- none of those targeted a specific political party. Their MO is to cause as many indiscriminate deaths as possible.



Saufsoldat said:


> The "nordic man" bit came much later and in no way invalidated the hypothesis that it's a muslim terrorist attack. Is it subtle racism or why should we assume that a "nordic looking man" can't be muslim?
> 
> It was entirely possible that the prime minister was the target and the random shooting around just an emergency plan because he didn't show up, there was no immediate indication that the party was the target.



And yet somehow several people in this thread were able to piece it out.


----------



## T.D.A (Jul 23, 2011)

This is a tragedy and instead of discussing the actual issue, you guys are trying to protect your e-dick, justifying whoever you thought was responsible for the attacks yesterday. 
Very self-centered.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

Ah yes, we've broken the sacred respect rule that NF _always_ follows after tragedies. This Cafe is a hallowed forum after all. /sarc


----------



## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

> It was entirely possible that the prime minister was the target and the random shooting around just an emergency plan because he didn't show up, there was no immediate indication that the party was the target.



Why would he even do the random shooting though, in that case? I don't know too much about what happened, but it seemed very well planned, because he even had a policeman outfit.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 23, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Apologize for what?
> 
> It's thanks to muslim terrorists that they're being associated with terrorist attacks and it's a muslim terrorist group that claim responsibility for the attacks, I really don't see why anyone should feel bad for assuming that it was indeed a muslim terrorist group until proven otherwise.





Le M?le Dominant said:


> For me, it's normal to have Islamists terrorists in mind when you such tragedy. This mass murder is comparable with the attack in Madrid or in London, more than the attacks by separatists groups.



apologize scaliwags, for wrongly claiming it was muslims when it wasn't.

who the fuck believes shit on the internet.


----------



## Nemesis (Jul 23, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> apologize scaliwags, for wrongly claiming it was muslims when it wasn't.
> 
> who the fuck believes shit on the internet.



Al Qaeda backed groups claimed responsibility, so it was safe to claim it was an extremist islamic group.


----------



## Punpun (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Ah yes, we've broken the sacred respect rule that NF _always_ follows after tragedies. This Cafe is a hallowed forum after all. /sarc



They did for the Japan's tsunami.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

Punpun said:


> They did for the Japan's tsunami.



Nuclear power debate? 

Also



> Norway bomb suspect bought 6 tons of fertilizer


http://news.yahoo.com/norway-bomb-suspect-bought-6-tons-fertilizer-124405264.html


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 23, 2011)

Nemesis said:


> Al Qaeda backed groups claimed responsibility, so it was safe to claim it was an extremist islamic group.



my ass, smarter people spoke up pretty early on:



Jin-E said:


> Alot of Jihadi groups try to hog the spotlight after such an attack. Take any such claims with a big grain of salt.
> 
> IF(and there is a big IF) the bomb and the shootings are connected, it's probably either a AQ plot of various degree or an attack sponsored by a government(likely Libya)



some even blamed isreal almost 



The Pink Ninja said:


> Awwwww, and here I was getting ready to blame Israel...



anyway, let's make drawings of mohammed, hopefully no fringe lunatic white extremists will join in this time


----------



## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> apologize scaliwags, for wrongly claiming it was muslims when it wasn't.
> 
> who the fuck believes shit on the internet.



Imagine you have a neighbor whose dog shits in your backyard every other day. Whenever it happens, he tells you "yeah, that was my dog, cry me a river". One day you smell shit in your back yard and you neighbor shouts over "yeah, my dog crapped in your yard, you asshole" and you tell him "fuck you". Upon closer inspection you notice that it was actually a cow pat and one of the cows from some guy across the street got into your back yard. Should you now go apologize to your neighbor for saying "fuck you"?

The information available at that point hinted towards a muslim terrorist attack. Maybe if I burned down a Mosque as a reaction, I'd apologize, but seeing how absolutely nothing happened as a result of the initial suspicion, there is no need to apologize to anyone, least of all muslim terrorists.


----------



## impersonal (Jul 23, 2011)

Guys, I knew popped collars were no good. Look at that pure-bred douchebag.


Also, sauf, you should just ignore him.


----------



## Seph (Jul 23, 2011)

I hate how they keep on showing his picture on the news like he's a fucking model.


----------



## T4R0K (Jul 23, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> I hate how they keep on showing his picture on the news like he's a fucking model.



Well, it's his pictures. Now, if they could find him dressed as a clown, I'm sure they'd show it.

But what I want to see now is pictures of "The Walk of Shame" like for DSK.

But in his case, the risk is that he takes it as a chance to show pride and shout shit like "Norse Power !!" or something.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 23, 2011)

Toby said:


> We don't know IF he will be tried for only 21 years. They can make an exception in his case and keep him in house arrest after 21 years in jail or something.
> 
> Thing is, we abandoned the death penalty after we executed Quisling in the aftermath of WW2. This guy bears quite the resemblance, honestly, but we are not bringing back that punishment just for this guy. We can tolerate his existence, and if we are really cruel, we'll make him live to see how even more open-minded Norway can be. I expect police will be tearing up the remains of his business right now. He owned a vegetable store of some kind, which could explain the leads to a fertilizer-bomb. Also, it doesn't seem like a car-bomb. Internal fires in the adjacent building to the main civil service quarters suggests that the bomb(s) were planted in the government buildings. Lax security in the summer? I don't know. He would not have been able to pull this off otherwise.



I'm unfamiliar with the Norwegian prison system, but I would think that this bastard will have to be permanently segregated or face death from other inmates.


----------



## hcheng02 (Jul 23, 2011)

Toby said:


> Correct. 'Forvaring' in this case is civil commitment, (it can be involuntary commitment for the mentally ill) and extends any prison-sentence where the criminal has violated a fundamental principle of society. In cases of gross acts of terrorism, this seems the appropriate course of action.



Oh OK, that makes a little more sense.

So how is everyone reacting to this in Norway? Any candlelight vigils, shouts for vengeance, etc?


----------



## Migooki (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Oh, so it wasn't a Muslim terror group? How strange.



For the record, he can be associated with them even though he's white. I mean, what kind of dumb group would send a muslim to do a task if it's supposed to be successful? Also, there was a confession/talk about it on an Arabic Al Quaeda related forum (  - that was restricted after it leaked). It was translated by a member/association on Twitter and is still available.

Translations from the forum: 


Also, read the latest tweet in this screenshot:


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

*Via Reddit, a translated account of a girl's experience on the island during the shooting.*


Cried my eyes out reading it.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Miyuki said:


> For the record, he can be associated with them even though he's white.


Yes, I think we've already covered that.



> I mean, what kind of dumb group would send a muslim to do a task if it's supposed to be successful? Also, there was a confession/talk about it on an Arabic Al Quaeda related forum (  - that was restricted after it leaked). It was translated by a member/association on Twitter and is still available.


The man is a right-wing, anti-Islam Christian fundamentalist. 99% sure that he isn't related to AQ.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2011)

What the Hell is InteleTweet?


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

The worst part is reading the accounts of the kids on the island that are starting to surface.  I just.. I physically _can't_ with these.

From someone who had two friends on the island, got texts from them during the shooting and hopped in a car in the hope of helping them-





> They didn't get hurt, but they were both shot at. One of my friends escaped in a both along with 4 other people. They had to lie down while the shooter was trying to kill them with his machine gun, they saw dead people in the water around them. *The other hid under a rock for two hours and heard the shooter walking on the rock saying it was safe to come out and he was going to help them *
> I was on shore with a car, and getting random texts from both of them about this. You have no idea






> "I saw some boats, but I wasn't sure if I could trust them. I didn't know who I could trust anymore."


The most horrific part is that he completely took advantage of, and subsequently destroyed, their trust in authority.  Jesus.


----------



## impersonal (Jul 23, 2011)

Koi said:


> The most horrific part is that he completely took advantage of, and subsequently destroyed, their trust in authority.  Jesus.


Hm, that's not bad at all. What's really bad is that he tried to kill them.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 23, 2011)

I bet, they'll never go near Youth Camps; on the 22nd of July... as the events of the day are engraned in their mind.


----------



## Darklyre (Jul 23, 2011)

impersonal said:


> Hm, that's not bad at all. What's really bad is that he tried to kill them.



I don't think he tried, so much as mostly succeeded.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 23, 2011)

... And when you've got people out doing things like this they rarely have a high success ratio in committing the act but this did and would have done more havoc had he not been caught...


----------



## Megaharrison (Jul 23, 2011)

I really don't get this "we showed you, he was a far-rightist!" mentality. Oh wow he was a Nazi over a Muslim terrorist, I'm sure upset. I hate his type just as much as the Islamists, and wish them all the fate of death. Our enemies come from both the left and the right.

It was reasonable to assume that it was an Al-Qaeda esque group. I said in my initial post that it "probably" was Islamists, and in terms of probability it is a reasonable assumption given that the great majority of orchestrated terror attacks today are by Islamists.


----------



## Zhongda (Jul 23, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Once again, for the knobheads with Alzheimer's: A muslim terrorist organization claimed responsibility shortly after the bombing.
> 
> You can go "I told you so" all you want, but it's really kind of retarded.



What's kind of retarded is being trigger happy about suspecting Islam when the actual reports show separatists and left wingers as the main cause of the terrorist attacks in Europe.
 (see page 36).

Muslims groups are helpless and quite weak where ever they are, in my opinion. They will claim any big bang made just to make themselves look strong.


----------



## Mathias124 (Jul 23, 2011)

Haha the terrorists are so poor at doing their job the christians have to help then.

Trololololol


----------



## Punpun (Jul 23, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Oh wow he was a Nazi over a Muslim terrorist, I'm sure upset. I hate his type just as much as the Islamists, and wish them all the fate of death.



It's normal, afterall you're Jew.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 23, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> I really don't get this "we showed you, he was a far-rightist!" mentality. Oh wow he was a Nazi over a Muslim terrorist, I'm sure upset. I hate his type just as much as the Islamists, and wish them all the fate of death. Our enemies come from both the left and the right.
> 
> It was reasonable to assume that it was an Al-Qaeda esque group. I said in my initial post that it "probably" was Islamists, and in terms of probability it is a reasonable assumption given that the great majority of orchestrated terror attacks today are by Islamists.



it was reasonable to wait for the truth rather than jump on anti muslim cock


----------



## Mathias124 (Jul 23, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> it was reasonable to wait for the truth rather than jump on anti muslim cock



He said it was probable..

Who the hell didnt believe it was muslim terrorists?
When i saw the guy was white i was like WTF?


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

Mathias124 said:


> He said it was probable..
> 
> Who the hell didnt believe it was muslim terrorists?
> When i saw the guy was white i was like WTF?



There are about 3 or 4 in this thread who realized that the targeting of a single party didn't add up to Islamists. Especially with reports that he was blond.

On the BBC they had a "security analyst" from the USA (of course) citing over and over Islamic terrorism as the source. His basis was a claim on some internet website that had already been retracted. Wish I had a recording, it's funny in retrospect watching people disregard evidence for their own personal beliefs.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> There are about 3 or 4 in this thread who realized that the targeting of a single party didn't add up to Islamists. Especially with reports that he was blond.


Do you have a point or are you going to keep trying to whip your peen out?


----------



## Mathias124 (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> There are about 3 or 4 in this thread who realized that the targeting of a s*ingle party didn't add up to Islamists. Especially with reports that he was blond.*
> 
> On the BBC they had a "security analyst" from the USA (of course) citing over and over Islamic terrorism as the source. His basis was a claim on some internet website that had already been retracted. Wish I had a recording, it's funny in retrospect watching people disregard evidence for their own personal beliefs.



Converted muslim who decided he hates one party more than the others.

more likely than a christian terrorist.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Do you have a point or are you going to keep trying to whip your peen out?



Your contribution has already been noted. 



Coteaz said:


> Shame, but that is the cost of an unstable and out-of-control Middle East.




Well done.



Mathias124 said:


> Converted muslim who decided he hates one party more than the others.
> 
> more likely than a christian terrorist.




As it turned out, no. You say it's more likely but the outcome doesn't support that assertion.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Your contribution has already been noted.
> 
> Well done.


I'll ask again: Your point?


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> I'll ask again: Your point?



That people jumped the gun without any evidence. Am I speaking some language other than English?


----------



## Mathias124 (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> As it turned out, no. You say it's more likely but the outcome doesn't support that assertion.



.. Getting a fluss in poker is less likely than a pair, getting a fluss doesnt change the initial odds.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> That people jumped the gun without any evidence. Am I speaking some language other than English?



You need to just call it quits because no one can talk about jumping the gun until you explain why the fuck a blond white guy can't be a Muslim.


----------



## Berserk (Jul 23, 2011)

Lol, the MDL on this forum is out to defend the same assholes who claimed responsibility at first.  And when proven wrong, their little internet army took to anime forums to defend them some more.

Good job guys, I'm sure people will start caring anytime now.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> That people jumped the gun without any evidence. Am I speaking some language other than English?



Sounds like off-topicish to me. It's 100% irrelevant and the only thing you're doing here is stroking your e-peen for your amazing superpower of hindsight.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

Mathias124 said:


> .. Getting a fluss in poker is less likely than a pair, getting a fluss doesnt change the initial odds.



But odds are measured mathematically. No one had the means, or the info, to accurately measure the odds on this one.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You need to just call it quits because no one can talk about jumping the gun until you explain why the fuck a blond white guy can't be a Muslim.



There are very few white looking people involved in Islamic terrorist attacks. Richard Reid is probably the only one I can think of. 



Saufsoldat said:


> Sounds like off-topicish to me. It's 100% irrelevant and the only thing you're doing here is stroking your e-peen for your amazing superpower of hindsight.



Well, Jin-E should probably take the credit. He called it first.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2011)

Berserk said:


> Lol, the MDL on this forum is out to defend the same assholes who claimed responsibility at first.  And when proven wrong, their little internet army took to anime forums to defend them some more.
> 
> Good job guys, I'm sure people will start caring anytime now.



The MDL is busy.


----------



## Mathias124 (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> But odds are measured mathematically. No one had the means, or the info, to accurately measure the odds on this one.



Of course we do.

How many muslim terrorists might want to attack norway:

how many christian.

There are more muslim terrorists who wants to hit norway than christian.

odds are measured.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> But odds are measured mathematically. No one had the means, or the info, to accurately measure the odds on this one.



That's because you're ignoring the fact Muslims claimed responsibility. But we'll let it slid, we know you're constantly striving harder to be an apologist and this is a good example of it. 

We're going off something that was told to us by the group blamed. You're acting like a genius because of hindsight...who seems to be the smarter of the two?


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> That people jumped the gun without any evidence. Am I speaking some language other than English?


You've been bragging for pages about the 'select few' (yourself included, naturally) who guessed that it wasn't an Islamic group behind the attack. 

Why? Who cares? Large-scale attacks like this are usually the hallmark of an organized terrorist group, and the early claims by Muslim groups seemed to solidify it. That's all there is to say.

You're simply being petty and stroking your hindsight epeen. Mind stopping?


----------



## Zhongda (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> That people jumped the gun without any evidence. Am I speaking some language other than English?



Don't bother - when an orientalist looks you straight in the eye and asks you "what's wrong" then there's nothing he would be willing to talk about except for "the positional superiority, which puts  [himself] in a whole series of possible relationships with the Orient without ever losing him the relative upper hand." This is to say that he is only interested in the subject if it is "a sign of European-Atlantic power over the Orient, than it is as a veradic dis[cussion] about the Orient."


----------



## Berserk (Jul 23, 2011)

Zhongda said:


> Don't bother - when an orientalist looks you straight in the eye and asks you "what's wrong" then there's nothing he would be willing to talk about except for "the positional superiority, which puts  [himself] in a whole series of possible relationships with the Orient without ever losing him the relative upper hand." This is to say that he is only interested in the subject if it is "a sign of European-Atlantic power over the Orient, than it is as a veradic dis[cussion] about the Orient."



You seem very visibly upset about the West.  And yet, living in the west.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Of course if you looked at the evidence we had, you could just as easily say it pointed the opposite way due to the way the operation was carried out.
> 
> This is similar to saying black men statistically commit x amount of violent crime, therefore it is not wrong to assume that a black man committed this crime.



Except that you're again ignoring the fact that someone claimed responsibility. Stop deliberately ignoring posts that point out how childish you're being. No one gives a fuck that you were right, it only happened because you're contractually obligated not to blame Muslims for anything even when they do it wrong. Should we go back and count the dozens of times you've been spectacularly wrong?


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> You seem bothered by it. If you don't like the discussion, it's well within your rights to fuck off.


It's also well within my rights to call you out on offtopic, meaningless prattle.


----------



## Mathias124 (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Of course if you looked at the evidence we had, you could just as easily say it pointed the opposite way due to the way the operation was carried out.
> .



You name two factors that could easily have been chance.

A blond guy.. Maybe someone smart decided to color his/her hair?, maybe its a converted muslim.

Only one party got hit?, maybe the terrorist hated those guys more than any other party.


Fact is that no matter what factors come into play, a muslim terrorist was the most likely.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Except that you're again ignoring the fact that someone claimed responsibility. Stop deliberately ignoring posts that point out how childish you're being. No one gives a fuck that you were right, it only happened because you're contractually obligated not to blame Muslims for anything even when they do it wrong. Should we go back and count the dozens of times you've been spectacularly wrong?



An Islamist on a website. Those are not credible. I've seen numerous occasions where Islamists (real ones, not internet ones) tried to take credit for helicopter crashes in Iraq and Afghanistan that were just equipment malfunctions. 

And besides, that statement was retracted shortly afterward.



Coteaz said:


> It's also well within my rights to call you out on offtopic, meaningless prattle.



I don't care what you do.


----------



## Zhongda (Jul 23, 2011)

Berserk said:


> You seem very visibly upset about the West.  And yet, living in the west.



You confuse orientalists and the west. The west is not orientalist. The west is the west. If you understand what Orientalism is I do not think you would confuse my discontent with Orientalism with a displeasure with the west.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> You seem bothered by it. If you don't like the discussion, it's well within your rights to fuck off.



You seem to think someone is bothered by it more than they are bothered by how you're acting, I think that's what you don't get.


----------



## Saf (Jul 23, 2011)

So I take it you guys haven't seen the 1500 page manifesto yet?


----------



## Berserk (Jul 23, 2011)

Why isn't the MDL calling out the Jihad dumbfucks that claimed responsibility?

I mean, how dare people be outraged at retards who claim responsibility for killing massive amounts of people.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You seem to think someone is bothered by it more than they are bothered by how you're acting, I think that's what you don't get.



I think the ideological tendencies of the shooter hit a little too close to home for many here. I'm going to point that out.

And it's not just an issue of religion. It's the whole anti-multicultural crap, the way that people react to "leftists."

Here is an article on his manifesto:



> Anders Behring Breivik, charged in connection with Friday’s horrific bombing and shootings in Norway, left clues to his motivation at an anti-Muslim website called Document.no. In the entries below—culled and translated by the British magazine Searchlight—Breivik is fixated on what he believes is the creeping evil of Islam in Europe. He argues for setting up a system of social networking "such that is linked to similar organizations in other countries (similar to a beginning of a cultural Euro-version of a Tea Party movement)." He complains that Europe lost the Cold War by 1950 and that the continent, especially Norway and Sweden, has been engulfed by Marxist attitudes, "while the old-established truths of patriotism and cultural conservatism today is branded as extremism." He notes, "The European cultural conservative movement is small at the moment but we are growing every day."
> 
> Breivik, in one post, argues that a "moderate" Muslim is like a "moderate" Nazi:
> 
> ...


----------



## Saf (Jul 23, 2011)

Sent out by the guy yesterday. Half manifesto, half ideology, 1500 pages.


----------



## Saf (Jul 23, 2011)

EDIT: Doubled


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> *I think the ideological tendencies of the shooter hit a little too close to home for many here*. I'm going to point that out.
> 
> And it's not just an issue of religion. It's the whole anti-multicultural crap, the way that people react to "leftists."


Ah, yes, I forgot that we're all rabid anti-Islam ultraconservatives. We would love nothing more than to kill every single dirty towelhead Muslim in the world - and those damn bleeding hearts, too. 

SP, your little moral crusade has no basis.


----------



## firefist (Jul 23, 2011)

someone please summarize what happened.

the trolls in this thread make it unreadable.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

Oh shit, this guy has a lot to say. Look at the chapters bashing feminism, Eurabia, some sort of new European military order. 

He's not a Christian, he states that plainly.



> As a non-religious person, but still one that acknowledges and respects the impact of Judeo-Christian thinking on Western culture, I have warned against naive Christian compassion[1] related to Muslim immigration, as well as a disturbing tendency among too many Christian organisations to ally themselves with Muslims, for "religious values" and against Israel. But frankly, the most useful allies Muslims have in the West more often than not tend to be found among the non-religious crowd.



Source: manifesto

Believe it or not, this guy does seem somewhat intelligent even if completely mad. He has definitely studied up on his history and has extensive citations, albeit some of them to crap like jihadwatch.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2011)

Saf said:


> Sent out by the guy yesterday. Half manifesto, half ideology, 1500 pages.



Sounds like he was writing a new Health Care Plan.


----------



## Saf (Jul 23, 2011)

> I’ve spent a total of 9 years of my life working on this project. The first five years were spent studying and creating a financial base, and the last three years was spent working full time with research, compilation and writing. Creating this compendium has personally cost me a total of 317 000 Euros (130 000 Euros spent from my own pocket and 187 500 Euros for loss of income during three years). *All that, however, is barely noticeable compared to the sacrifices made in relation to the distribution of this book, the actual marketing operation*


This whole thing is a chilling read, but the way he refers to what he did as a "marketing operation" is one of the chillingest bits.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

Firefist said:


> someone please summarize what happened.
> 
> the trolls in this thread make it unreadable.



Right-wing terrorist sets off a bomb in or near a government building, a few people die. He waits for police to get there and starts shooting up some political rally for children, killing dozens of people. I think the total death toll is 92 at the moment.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2011)

Was it all one dude?


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## Saf (Jul 23, 2011)

He claims in the manifesto he was doing this alone, though police are still following up on reports of a second shooter.


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## Mathias124 (Jul 23, 2011)

Saf said:


> He claims in the manifesto he was doing this alone, though police are still following up on reports of a second shooter.



Probably just heat of the moment confusion..


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Was it all one dude?



I didn't believe it yesterday, but after reading parts of this manifesto, he could have pulled it off. 

He was very, very determined and meticulous. The police had no chance against this guy.


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## Saufsoldat (Jul 23, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Was it all one dude?



Let's not speculate here. I'm tempted to say yes, but obviously we must wait a few months until the polices closes the investigation, otherwise certain people will throw an "I told you so" tantrum.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2011)

Just goes to show how little there is you can do to protect yourself, short of super invasive measures this is impossible to stop.


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## Saf (Jul 23, 2011)

There's no question this guy pulled it off on his own. He left meticulous instructions on how to follow in his footsteps, up to and including 6 pages on Sugar Beet farming and cultivation to provide a cover story to acquire fertilizer.

Pretty much any question you might have about this guy or what happened can be found in the manifesto.


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## Bleach (Jul 23, 2011)

Why a youth rally  ?


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## Saf (Jul 23, 2011)

Bleach said:


> Why a youth rally  ?





> The individuals I have been accused of illegally executing are all category A and B traitors. They are supporters of the anti-European hate-ideology known as multiculturalism, an ideology that facilitates Islamisation and Islamic demographic warfare. The category A and B traitors I executed were killed in self defence through a pre-emptive strike. They have been found guilty of high treason and condemned to death by the highest legal authority in Europe and our country. This authority is known as the military and criminal tribunal; PCCTS, Knights Templar. All the individuals I have been accused of illegally executing have deliberately used their influence in a way which makes them guilty of charges 1 through 8 which was presented earlier


Dude sees multiculturalism as the biggest thread to European Christendom.


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## Jin-E (Jul 23, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> I really don't get this "we showed you, he was a far-rightist!" mentality. Oh wow he was a Nazi over a Muslim terrorist, I'm sure upset. I hate his type just as much as the Islamists, and wish them all the fate of death. Our enemies come from both the left and the right.
> 
> It was reasonable to assume that it was an Al-Qaeda esque group. I said in my initial post that it "probably" was Islamists, and in terms of probability it is a reasonable assumption given that the great majority of orchestrated terror attacks today are by Islamists.



Just to inform.

There is little evidence he was a typical neo-Nazi. He is depicted as a right wing Christian conservative who lambasted Islamism and Multiculturalism. 
Some claim he was actually pro-Zionist as well.


Tbh, i dont really fault people for suspecting AQ links. I did too when i first heard of the bombings, because of a similar Islamist carbombing in Stockholm last year. And im sure Perv did as well. Only when the shooting started did things seem odd, since the socialist youth group was a pretty atypical target for a Jihadist. Some Norwegians actually speculate that the bomb was a diversion and the real target all along was the youth rally.

Of course, non-Norwegians probably assumed it was random teenagers that were targeted and Islamists have definitely done that in the past. So the mix up from NF posters was understandable imo.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 23, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> I think the ideological tendencies of the shooter hit a little too close to home for many here. I'm going to point that out.
> 
> And it's not just an issue of religion. It's the whole anti-multicultural crap, the way that people react to "leftists."
> 
> Here is an article on his manifesto:



nail on the head.  it's like when US sentator gabrielle giffords was shot, and it begged the question "could the dumb shit we're doing be the cause of this".  

and this thread proved it, cause muslims were immediately demonized for something they didn't do but was done by a person that hates muslims and demonizes them.  

positive feed back


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 23, 2011)

He's your pro-Israel, secular male who has a problem with multiculturalism, feminism and a united Europe. 



> For Europe, the most important thing to do right now is to dismantle the European Union in its present form, and regain national control over our borders and our legislation. The EU is so deeply flawed as an organisation, and so heavily infiltrated by Eurabian and pro-Islamic thinking that it simply cannot be reformed. And let’s end the stupid support for the Palestinians that the Eurabians have encouraged, and start supporting our cultural cousin, Israel.





> However, I suspect that the most important reason has to do with the extreme anti-masculine strand of feminism that has permeated Scandinavia for decades. The male protective instinct doesn’t take action because Scandinavian women have worked tirelessly to eradicate it, together with everything else that smacks of traditional masculinity. Because of this, feminism has greatly weakened Scandinavia, and perhaps Western civilisation as whole.


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## Saf (Jul 23, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> Just to inform.
> 
> There is little evidence he was a typical neo-Nazi. He is depicted as a right wing Christian conservative who lambasted Islamism and Multiculturalism.
> Some claim he was actually pro-Zionist as well.





> After WW2, the greatest anti-nationalist and anti-European propaganda campaign the
> world has ever seen was launched. And people like myself, and other cultural conservative
> leaders of today, are still suffering under this propaganda campaign because of that one man.
> Were the majority of the German and European Jews disloyal? Yes, at least the so called
> ...


10charslolol


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## Nemesis (Jul 23, 2011)

Wait this guy was so fucked up he got banned from stormfront OO.  I didn't know that they had limits


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## Elim Rawne (Jul 23, 2011)

Nemesis said:


> Wait this guy was so fucked up he got banned from stormfront OO.  I didn't know that they had limits



Of course they do. Say something good about black people and you'll be lolb&


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## Saf (Jul 23, 2011)

> 4GB AEE PD80 Mini DV DVR Camera
> This extremely small and lightweight field camera is used to document your operation. 4
> GB is equivalent to 2 hour of constant filming. Ive personally tested it and it works great.
> Some governments may seize the movie (after you are neutralized) and publish it while
> ...


Oh god, looks like there might be footage of the killings


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## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

That manifesto gives me the chills.  Reading more on this guy makes my stomach turn.  Jesus.


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## Masato (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Compared to the flood of Islamic attacks in the past decade, yes it is somewhat strange.
> 
> I'd say something about deserving execution, but Cowboy shut that down whilst I slept.



get your facts straight, dickhead. About 6% of all terrorism in USA is by muslims and even less on Europe. Ignorant jerks like you who show no remorse for the involved but would rather just bash other people to feel superior should simply just STFU.


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## makeoutparadise (Jul 23, 2011)

I think the BBC said it was 84 dead now


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## Xion (Jul 23, 2011)

Seems this guy was fan of the xenophobic hate machine called Geert Wilders.

Not surprising, but this is one reason why I absolutely despise xenophobic, bigoted fucks who think that by painting entire cultures with a broad brush they are somehow helping the developed world.



Coteaz said:


> Ah, yes, I forgot that we're all rabid anti-Islam ultraconservatives. We would love nothing more than to kill every single dirty towelhead Muslim in the world - and those damn bleeding hearts, too.
> 
> SP, your little moral crusade has no basis.



Many here fap to Geert Wilders who is pretty much the embodiment of this guy sans the killing people.

People hate on Islam and the rights of Muslims to live near them in many parts of Europe and on this forum. It's pathetic, especially since many of those same people blast Americans for ignorant shit.


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## Golden Witch (Jul 23, 2011)

Read up on Norway.

Longest Prison sentence there is 21 years from what I read...
Sheesh he'd be free again?


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## Saf (Jul 23, 2011)

After 21 years, they have to evaluate and recommend further incarceration every five years.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 23, 2011)

wow , this guy's writing is a dream come true for me, all the conspiracies i generally accused _the man_ of, he is confessing to.


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## Nyasi (Jul 23, 2011)

this is so sad... wow wtf... im somewhat glad it was not a radical muslim.. or else i dont know what the fuck would be going on now... but a man like him getting banned from stormfront? really? ... i guess because he is pro-israel and is not against jews... they don't like that stuff very much...


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## sadated_peon (Jul 23, 2011)

What I find most disturbing about this is that he described his own attacks as "attrocities". He did this know how wrong it was, knowing he was taking innocent lives....

But did it any way because he wanted a forum, he wanted his opinions heard, wanted the attention. 

And he is getting it. 

This is kira shit right here.


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## Migooki (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> The man is a right-wing, anti-Islam Christian fundamentalist. 99% sure that he isn't related to AQ.



Probably not. It doesn't seem unlikely that terrorist organizations will instantly take credits for something so sickening.


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## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 23, 2011)

Yep, all thoroughly informed by in-trend fascist ideology. Had some ties with the EDL apparently.


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## Toby (Jul 23, 2011)

hcheng02 said:


> Oh OK, that makes a little more sense.
> 
> So how is everyone reacting to this in Norway? Any candlelight vigils, shouts for vengeance, etc?



There is a lot of disbelief in the media, a massive display of soul-searching, and some really big candlelight vigils starting this Monday. I have promised I will go on Monday because this actually matters, and vigils here usually don't have a serious tone to them.

As for shouts of vengeance, anything of the sort has been muted so far. Every political party seems to be making reasonable statements about how we should look out for one another now. Even when it's dramatic, Norway is still Norway.


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## stream (Jul 23, 2011)

I confess that when hearing that a single guy shot like 80 people, I thought they were a bit stupid... Of course, I don't know how it happened, but I recall that in the Arizona shooting, the shooter was tackled after killing a dozen people. I can't help thinking that if a few of the victims had rushed this guy, there might have been half as many victims... No?

I'm ashamed to say that I wonder if this could be due to different mindsets between the crazy anything-can-happen US, and the calm nothing-ever-happens Norway...


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## Migooki (Jul 23, 2011)

Copypasting what I just wrote in another thread.

A few things; many of the witnesses said that there were two people shooting.

Police and everyone else were too busy dealing with the recent explosion inside Oslo, which is why it took them so long to get there and deal with it.

The bomb didn't kill only 7 people. There are tons of people still lying inside the building, but the circumstances are too insane and unsafe for them to search through the entire building just yet. 

The arrested dude is heavily involve with World of Warcraft and other video games. (Though, I believe that this is merely a coincidence, that it doesn't actually have anything to do with the video games. The media tends to be hysterical about this without highlighting that it's mainly the type of people who sit on their computer a lot.) Your average successful business father is obviously less likely to do such horrible thing than some lonely and fucked up nerd spending all his time being a hikki.


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## perman07 (Jul 23, 2011)

stream said:


> I confess that when hearing that a single guy shot like 80 people, I thought they were a bit stupid... Of course, I don't know how it happened, but I recall that in the Arizona shooting, the shooter was tackled after killing a dozen people. I can't help thinking that if a few of the victims had rushed this guy, there might have been half as many victims... No?
> 
> I'm ashamed to say that I wonder if this could be due to different mindsets between the crazy anything-can-happen US, and the calm nothing-ever-happens Norway...


Similar thoughts struck me too. I think there is a big difference between the situations though. The school-shootings have occurred indoors with corridors, this was outside on an island with tons of open space. In the former, you probably have shorter ways to run, and a higher density of people. On an island however, people can flee in all directions (and most probably will in the heat of the moment), giving the killer lots of space to defend himself in. And this guy seems to have prepared himself exceptionally well given that he's run a gardening company for several years for what seems to be only to buy lots of materials to make explosives (speculation at this point though).

I think basic human nature overrules cultural conditioning in situations like these, and from my experience the Americans I've met haven't really been that different from people I've met from various European countries. You get all sorts of different people in every country, and what type of character you are probably determines your instinctual responses in high-adrenaline situations like this way more than cultural conditioning. It's not as if violence and shit doesn't happen in Norway too, humans will be humans where ever you are.


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## Syed (Jul 23, 2011)

Sad for the victims getting shot by a deranged maniac. On the plus side I'm glad Muslims didn't do this. Wonder what direction this thread would have gone if it were.


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

This wasn't a film. This can happen anywhere in the world, the teenager who were killed were between 13 to 19, I too am sorry they didn't wrestle the man with enough weapon to kill 80 plus people down to the ground. I'm sure most American teenagers would have bought a knives, guns and a rocket luncher to this youth camp with was on island...surrounding freezing cold water. America fuck yeah, right?


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## stream (Jul 23, 2011)

Yeah well... You don't need weapons to tackle a man (they did not use any in Arizona).

Incidentally, this is my last post from the US... I'm finally flying back to Europe.


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## Sanity Check (Jul 23, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> ... Its Obama he wants a war to get his country out of debt.



The cafe has changed a lot in the time I've been here...


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## Golden Witch (Jul 23, 2011)

Seriously what the fuck was wrong with the Guy?
He was even celebrating.O.o

On another note:
Photo of it on RTL looks quite scary.
Like some mad Horror Movie coming true.


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

stream said:


> Yeah well... You don't need weapons to tackle a man



Yeah, because just being American is enough.


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## Sky is Over (Jul 23, 2011)

stream said:


> I confess that when hearing that a single guy shot like 80 people, I thought they were a bit stupid... Of course, I don't know how it happened, but I recall that in the Arizona shooting, the shooter was tackled after killing a dozen people. I can't help thinking that if a few of the victims had rushed this guy, there might have been half as many victims... No?
> 
> I'm ashamed to say that I wonder if this could be due to different mindsets between the crazy anything-can-happen US, and the calm nothing-ever-happens Norway...



It's just the mindset, location, and basic differences between both societies. If something like that were to happen, it probably wouldn't get up to that level, just because a camp like that would of had some sort of armed security, or the fact that Americans are more violently inclined *thanks in part to the warrior culture we've created for ourselves* and would of subdued him quickly given the opportunity.

But I don't like playing scenarios and what-ifs, my job does enough of that.


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## Kameil (Jul 23, 2011)

80:1 Kill death ratio.


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## Megaharrison (Jul 23, 2011)

The stuff with "why didn't the kids fight back" is silly, kids will be kids and on top of that most people would flee in such a situation. I am also curious as to what kind of weapon he used, could also help to explain the death toll.


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## Kittan (Jul 23, 2011)

Looks like a council estate building. Houses of Parliament it certainly isn't.


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## Sky is Over (Jul 23, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> The stuff with "why didn't the kids fight back" is silly, kids will be kids and on top of that most people would flee in such a situation. I am also curious as to what kind of weapon he used, could also help to explain the death toll.



Most people would, but when the opportunity arises we take it...

The reports are kind of mixed, some say he used a pistol and shotgun, others twin machine pistols, some even say an automatic rifle. What's your opinion on it?


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## Bioness (Jul 23, 2011)

> The 32-year-old Norwegian man suspected of Norway's shooting and bomb  massacre calls his deeds "atrocious" yet "necessary" and will explain in  court, his lawyer said Sunday.



Also the death toll is currently *92*


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 23, 2011)

Sasuke_Bateman said:


> This wasn't a film. This can happen anywhere in the world, the teenager who were killed were between 13 to 19, I too am sorry they didn't wrestle the man with enough weapon to kill 80 plus people down to the ground. I'm sure most American teenagers would have bought a knives, guns and a rocket luncher to this youth camp with was on island...surrounding freezing cold water. America fuck yeah, right?



well, in american thinking, that's the perfect place to get hacked up.  ever seen friday the 13th or hills have eyes?



Kameil said:


> 80:1 Kill death ratio.



kdf is infinite, he didn't die.



Megaharrison said:


> The stuff with "why didn't the kids fight back" is silly, kids will be kids and on top of that most people would flee in such a situation. I am also curious as to what kind of weapon he used, could also help to explain the death toll.





must have used an assault rifle with extended taped up mags.


----------



## Sky is Over (Jul 23, 2011)

@NSU, I've been looking at the image real funny. I would take it as real photograph, but I have the suspicion of photoshoppery.


----------



## Megaharrison (Jul 23, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> must have used an assault rifle with extended taped up mags.



That's a Ruger Mini-14, fyi. Derivative of the American M14 rifle. Too much stupid shit at the end of it though (2 flashlights, da fuc?!). I'm surprised he got as many as he did. Must have been quite the marksman, as many massacre lunatics throughout history have been.


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## makeoutparadise (Jul 23, 2011)

Death toll is now 92 and possibly rising


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 24, 2011)

Sky is Over said:


> @NSU, I've been looking at the image real funny. I would take it as real photograph, but I have the suspicion of photoshoppery.



that's real dude, all the guy's photos have that super glossy look



Megaharrison said:


> That's a Ruger Mini-14, fyi. Derivative of the American M14 rifle. Too much stupid shit at the end of it though (2 flashlights, da fuc?!). I'm surprised he got as many as he did. Must have been quite the marksman, as many massacre lunatics throughout history have been.



maybe one has a laser? does it have a bipod too,plus grip, plus scope and holo?  wonder if it was full auto.


----------



## Sky is Over (Jul 24, 2011)

> that's real dude, all the guy's photos have that super glossy look



I'm just looking at the facial expression, it looks shopped. The patches are in English, so it makes me wonder. And why if you have a forward grip you don't even use it, does it need two lights, and a fucking bayonet? 



> maybe one has a laser? does it have a bipod too,plus grip, plus scope and holo? wonder if it was full auto.



Oh yeah, he also has a bunch of perks as well.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Jul 24, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> The stuff with "why didn't the kids fight back"



people are really saying "why didn't the kids fight back"? 

Because we all know Hands>gun Stick>gun rock>gun


----------



## lowtech redneck (Jul 24, 2011)

Masato said:


> get your facts straight, dickhead. About 6% of all terrorism in USA is by muslims and even less on Europe.



Europol seems to disagree with your risk-assesment; Islamists and left-wing extremists are larger security threats right now:  http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-europol-plans-task-force-norway-154842380.html

Demonizing people who oppose Islamism on the basis of this asshole's actions is as bad as portraying typical left-wingers as militant Stalinists.  Its perfectly reasonable to have initially assumed the terrorist attack was probably Islamist in origin based on recent history.


----------



## Sky is Over (Jul 24, 2011)

makeoutparadise said:


> people are really saying "why didn't the kids fight back"?
> 
> Because we all know Hands>gun Stick>gun rock>gun



Everyone has the misconception that an armed man is invincible, which is far from the truth. If he has a rifle, he's at a disadvantage in close-quarters, which means a concussion to the head with a blunt object or any other method to momentarily phase him could allow you to get your hands on the weapon if you strike from around a close distance. If he has a pistol, which is harder when engaging at a close distance, you just fuck up his control of his firing hand and that can give you the edge. 

Is this a way saying kidsshouldofdonebetter.jpg? No, they're just children, a grown man on the other hand is a completely different story.


----------



## Kaitlyn (Jul 24, 2011)

Apparently, this tool was a fan of Modern Warfare 2.....


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jul 24, 2011)

^Every fan of MW2 is a tool


----------



## lowtech redneck (Jul 24, 2011)

Zhongda said:


> You confuse orientalists and the west. The west is not orientalist. The west is the west. If you understand what Orientalism is I do not think you would confuse my discontent with Orientalism with a displeasure with the west.



Edward Said and Samuel Huntington are equally bullshit.


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## Stalin (Jul 24, 2011)

Should we give this tool the death sentence?


----------



## First Tsurugi (Jul 24, 2011)

Stalin said:


> Should we give this tool the death sentence?



I've heard the maximum sentence in Norway is like twenty years.

No idea how reliable that information is.


----------



## insanetrolllogic (Jul 24, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> I've heard the maximum sentence in Norway is like twenty years.
> 
> No idea how reliable that information is.



21 years, to be exact.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 24, 2011)

More than likely the shooter/bomber viewed the Teens at the Youth Camp as those who blindly supported multiculterism upon Norwegian society ... So he couldn't reach high ranking government officals so the 2nd best thing would be to target their supporters...

its vile but hey vile and stomach churning is what gets people in front of Tvs as well as buying papers and putting their spin on events...


----------



## Indignant Guile (Jul 24, 2011)

Well life really is unpredictable.


----------



## Xyloxi (Jul 24, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> I've heard the maximum sentence in Norway is like twenty years.
> 
> No idea how reliable that information is.



Twenty one years, but I think a Norwegian poster said that he can be held in custody after his sentence is completed.


----------



## Synn (Jul 24, 2011)

Some of the pics are pretty insane. :x

Was that caused by _one_ bomb?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 24, 2011)

Thethiala said:


> It seems like he used a fully automated M14 with a Glock as side arm, that would explain why nobody managed to fight back. He also took great care to never run out of ammo and reloaded often. The kids quite simply didn't stand a chance against him - it was far different from fighting some desperado with a gun, they were up against a well armed, calm and calculating man who had been doing preparations for this for a long time.



All the Islamic Terrorists must be embarrassed. Here's one more thing white guys do better than them. If he seriously was going solo in all this the guy is like a lunatic Jack Bauer


----------



## Mathias124 (Jul 24, 2011)

I just realized.. isnt he the best?

How many people have reached 92 on a solo rampage? 

I think he might be the worlds greatest terrorist.


----------



## tinhamodic (Jul 24, 2011)

This guy's going to be the poster boy for the Jihadists.


----------



## Syed (Jul 24, 2011)

So...he's a white Christian terrorist right? :amazed


----------



## impersonal (Jul 24, 2011)

stream said:
			
		

> I confess that when hearing that a single guy shot like 80 people, I thought they were a bit stupid... Of course, I don't know how it happened, but I recall that in the Arizona shooting, the shooter was tackled after killing a dozen people. I can't help thinking that if a few of the victims had rushed this guy, there might have been half as many victims... No?
> 
> I'm ashamed to say that I wonder if this could be due to different mindsets between the crazy anything-can-happen US, and the calm nothing-ever-happens Norway...





Sky is Over said:


> It's just the mindset, location, and basic differences between both societies. If something like that were to happen, it probably wouldn't get up to that level, just because a camp like that would of had some sort of armed security, or the fact that Americans are more violently inclined *thanks in part to the warrior culture we've created for ourselves* and would of subdued him quickly given the opportunity.
> 
> But I don't like playing scenarios and what-ifs, my job does enough of that.



... Take a few hundred teenagers on an island measuring about 500x300 meters. Put a 6 feet tall, rather strong-looking man with a lot of hunting experience and this gun: ,  (lots of fun to shoot!). 

Now tell me, which 20 unarmed american teenagers, in that situation, would volunteer to zerg-rush the guy, knowing full well that at least half of them would be shot dead before they can reach him?

The arizona shooting just can't be compared, the shooter shot people at point-blank range and dropped his reload ammo on the ground close enough for a bystander to catch it and throw it away. And that's when he was subdued.

I really wonder how anyone could conclude anything about norwegian society from that.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Jul 24, 2011)

Did the Arizona shooter also have an assault rifle?


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 24, 2011)

Sounds like he's going to make quite a show out of his trial. He intends to explain himself, which I assume means putting multiculturalism and liberalism on trial. Wonder if the judge will allow him to make a spectacle of it. Anyone know if TV cameras are allowed inside Norwegian courts?


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## impersonal (Jul 24, 2011)

Elim Rawne said:


> ^Every fan of MW2 is a tool


He wore popped collars. What do you expect.

Also, per capita, this is about two times 9/11 for Norway. Big stuff for a small country, especially considering that his victims were mostly teenagers.


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## Thor (Jul 24, 2011)

Elim Rawne said:


> ^Every fan of MW2 is a tool



Online gaming made this guy the shining example he is. Just like the Columbine killers. Lost the line between fantasy and reality. Right?


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## sadated_peon (Jul 24, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Sounds like he's going to make quite a show out of his trial. He intends to explain himself, which I assume means putting multiculturalism and liberalism on trial. Wonder if the judge will allow him to make a spectacle of it. Anyone know if TV cameras are allowed inside Norwegian courts?



I really hope they don't, he killed these people to get a forum. I would see him denied that forum at all costs.


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## soulnova (Jul 24, 2011)

Is it Monday already there? I really want to hear what he has to say. Hopefully he gets shot by one of the parents. That many kids death means Rage X10.


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## T4R0K (Jul 24, 2011)

Hey, I wanna twist the thread and go full-conspirationist-retard !!

Doesn't that mean that "the terrorists have already won" ? I mean, 9-11 creates fear, muslims start being singled-out a lot more, not being helped by the fact that the terros claiming they do their shit in the name of their religion, several other attacks happen, war in Afghanistan, etc...

And finally, a fundie christian does what many rednecks and xenophobes don't dare to mention, but think a lot about : get shit done against your local muslims and their "supporters" (left-wing parties, anti-racists, and all people trying to find a peaceful solution)

To me, it's like even in that case, the islamic terrorists must feel somehow content that the fear they wanted to inspire has led "an ennemy of them" to act exactly like them !

Shit, more than never, multiculturalism and teaching everyone to accept each other (this means muslims in the West should stop being whiny bitches asking for "spehshul rightz" and being butthurt for stuff the 2 other religions have learnt to live with) should be promoted more !

I think EVERY-FUCKING-ONE should sit down and think about ways to live together in peace, WITHOUT pissing off the neighbour (and that means, it goes both ways) and CONCILIATE !!!

"You don't wear a burqa in my country, and in exchange, I let you build mosques or have your day off for the Eids". Or "If you invite me for Eid, You come at my place for christmas."

I don't know ! Find some middle-grounds !

Sadly, the West tried that a lot, and I never really saw the muslim communauties in the West give much back... That comes from someone from a muslim communauty in France.

/rant.

PS : I'm foaming, but I'm not gonna go on a spree. I take chill pills.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 24, 2011)

tinhamodic said:


> This guy's going to be the poster boy for the Jihadists.



how so , if the 9 /11 attackers killed 3000 people? 17 attackers, 3000 dead.

176 kdr


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 24, 2011)

T4R0K said:


> Hey, I wanna twist the thread and go full-conspirationist-retard !!
> 
> Doesn't that mean that "the terrorists have already won" ? I mean, 9-11 creates fear, muslims start being singled-out a lot more, not being helped by the fact that the terros claiming they do their shit in the name of their religion, several other attacks happen, war in Afghanistan, etc...
> 
> ...



why bring muslims into this guys shit storm?  this attack has nothing to do with muslims and all to do about this guy's hate and fucked up view of the world.


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## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 24, 2011)

Hang on, what evidence has surfaced that suggests he is a Christian fundamentalist?


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## T4R0K (Jul 24, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> why bring muslims into this guys shit storm?  this attack has nothing to do with muslims and all to do about this guy's hate and fucked up view of the world.



It's exactly this ! Maybe he's fucked in the head, but 9-11 and 10 years of war against terror with muslims at the center of it didn't help him think ! Did you read his manifesto ? Muslims are on his lists along with leftists, marxists, and people wanting co-existence ! Even if a little, muslim are part of the psychosis that led him to friday.



> Hang on, what evidence has surfaced that suggests he is a Christian fundamentalist?



Pics of him with crusaders' signs ? Oh, and stuff he says in his "manifesto" ?


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 24, 2011)

that's like blaming gabrielle giffords for loughner shooting her in the head.

the guy is a fringe lunatic who nobody will take seriously, but can make himself be heard thru something violent.


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 24, 2011)

erictheking said:


> Hang on, what evidence has surfaced that suggests he is a Christian fundamentalist?



He's not. He states clearly in his writings that he's not a Christian. 

He also states that Judeo-Christian values are the bedrock of Europe, and any attempt to shake that foundation should be met with violent resistance.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 24, 2011)

he is a zionist


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## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 24, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> He's not. He states clearly in his writings that he's not a Christian.
> 
> He also states that Judeo-Christian values are the bedrock of Europe, and any attempt to shake that foundation should be met with violent resistance.



Cheers, thought so. There's not a single mention of God, Jesus or the Bible in any of the quotes that have been knocking around. Seems like he just hates Muslims, which would explain his affiliation with the Crusaders.


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## T4R0K (Jul 24, 2011)

erictheking said:


> Cheers, thought so. There's not a single mention of God, Jesus or the Bible in any of the quotes that have been knocking around. Seems like he just hates Muslims, which would explain his affiliation with the Crusaders.



Ah, yes, that could be it. He sees himself as a crusader ideologically, but without the religious aspect behind them back then.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 24, 2011)

erictheking said:


> Cheers, thought so. There's not a single mention of God, Jesus or the Bible in any of the quotes that have been knocking around. Seems like he just hates Muslims, which would explain his affiliation with the Crusaders.



but cmon, if ur a self anointed "crusader", u might be having _some_ christian delusions


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 24, 2011)

erictheking said:


> Cheers, thought so. There's not a single mention of God, Jesus or the Bible in any of the quotes that have been knocking around. Seems like he just hates Muslims, which would explain his affiliation with the Crusaders.



No, you're right. I haven't found a single reference giving credence to some God or higher being. He is also, as incorrectly reported, not your typical neo-Nazi type. I can see why he was banned from Stormfront. IMO he probably joined those forums to find people who were sympathetic to _his_ views more than joining because he was sympathetic to their views. More a nationalist than an open racist. 

Here is the quote for you (lifted from the manifesto):



> As a non-religious person, but still one that acknowledges and respects the impact of Judeo-Christian thinking on Western culture, I have warned against naive Christian compassion[1] related to Muslim immigration, as well as a disturbing tendency among too many Christian organisations to ally themselves with Muslims, for "religious values" and against Israel. But frankly, the most useful allies Muslims have in the West more often than not tend to be found among the non-religious crowd.





> For Europe, the most important thing to do right now is to dismantle the European Union in its present form, and regain national control over our borders and our legislation. The EU is so deeply flawed as an organisation, and so heavily infiltrated by Eurabian and pro-Islamic thinking that it simply cannot be reformed. And let’s end the stupid support for the Palestinians that the Eurabians have encouraged, and start supporting our cultural cousin, Israel.



His writing is stuff you see on the internet every day on numerous forums, including NF.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 24, 2011)

diamed used to write this stuff b4 he expired (if he ever expired)


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## T4R0K (Jul 24, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> diamed used to write this stuff b4 he expired (if he ever expired)



Say, anyone remember when Diamed stopped posting ? Maybe that guy IS diamed  ...?

Anyway, this guy would be his hero.


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## sadated_peon (Jul 24, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> He's not. He states clearly in his writings that he's not a Christian.
> 
> He also states that Judeo-Christian values are the bedrock of Europe, and any attempt to shake that foundation should be met with violent resistance.



"We are not sure whether he was alone or had help," a police official, Roger Andresen, said at a news conference. "What we know is that he is right-wing and a *Christian fundamentalist."*


So one of the things that Norway's police "Know" is wrong...

Here is another quote from his 

"Christianity’s presence in the structures of power that mould the paradigm of culture and society. Christians must reclaim the commanding heights of media, parliaments, councils, business and governmental authority. *They must storm the walls between church and state and remove all traces of Liberal Modernity.* They must do so from an authentically Christian narrative and worldview. "

Oh, yea, this guys is a *real *secularist.

oh, but there's more
"I have not yet felt the need to ask *God for strength*, yet... But *I’m pretty sure I will pray to God *as I’m rushing through my city, guns blazing, with 100 armed system protectors pursuing me with the intention to stop and/or kill."

"It is likely that I will *pray to God for strength *at one point during that operation, as *I think most people in that situation would*.  "

"If praying will act as an additional mental boost/soothing it is the pragmatical thing to do. I guess I will find out... If there is a God *I will be allowed to enter heaven as all other martyrs for the Church in the past.*

*I am pursuing religion* for this very reason and everyone else should as well, providing it will give you a mental boost. "

Now, where have I heard this sort of reasoning before!?!?!

oh, yea, this guys is a secular atheist.... sure, you keep on with that line.


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## Outlandish (Jul 24, 2011)

oh my fail lol


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 24, 2011)

I didn't say he was an atheist, but he states himself to be non-religious in his own manifesto. I don't know if he's agnostic or just doesn't have an opinion about religion altogether. He seems to adhere to Christian values as an institution, he mentions Christian humanism. 

I actually found those quotes in the manifesto, here is the entire context:



> I*f praying will act as an additional mental boost/soothing it is the pragmatical thing to do. *I guess I will find out...* If there is a God* I will be allowed to enter heaven as all other martyrs for the Church in the past.
> 
> I am pursuing religion for this very reason and everyone else should as well, providing it will give you a mental boost. There is no shame in praying minutes before your death. I highly recommend that you, prior to the operation, visit a Church and perform the Eucharist (Holy Communion/The Lord's Supper ). As we know, this ritual represents the final meal that Jesus Christ shared with his disciples before his arrest and eventual crucifixion. You should also solve any issues you might have with God and ask for forgiveness for past sins. Finally, ask him to prepare for the arrival of a martyr for the Church.* A hardened atheist may think this is silly, but believe me when I say; you will be extremely glad you did as soon as you realise you may actually die after the initiation of your operation. *



He's saying it's the pragmatic thing to do so that he gets mental strength. My quote about him being non-religious can be found in the manifesto. Praying can be comforting even if one is an atheist.


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## lacey (Jul 24, 2011)

Either way, my heartstrings go out to all those there.


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## Outlandish (Jul 24, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> I didn't say he was an atheist, but he states himself to be non-religious in his own manifesto. I don't know if he's agnostic or just doesn't have an opinion about religion altogether. He seems to adhere to Christian values as an institution, he mentions Christian humanism.
> 
> I actually found those quotes in the manifesto, here is the entire context:
> 
> ...



Most masons i've met and talked to have told me they all believe in some form of higher power, and you learn more as you move up the ranks.


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 24, 2011)

If you're interested, here is an entire perspective on his views of religion. I would say he sounds more like a secular agnostic than anything. 



> I’m not going to pretend I’m a very religious person as that would be a lie. I’ve always been very pragmatic and influenced by my secular surroundings and environment. In the past, I remember I used to think;
> 
> 
> “Religion is a crutch for weak people. What is the point in believing in a higher power if you have confidence in yourself!? Pathetic.”
> ...



It is very troubling to see this and juxtapose it to the media portrayal that he is a Christian fundamentalist. If these writings are from his hand, that is clearly a mischaracterization.

What's funny (if you can find any humor in this) is that he says "bonus mission" like he's playing Call of Duty. In the end, he's probably just crazy and has no rational, consistent views on religion. I've never heard a religious person say things like "if God exists."


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## abcd (Jul 24, 2011)

Its easy to label a terrorist as a muslim but we have to go into technicalities if he is a christian, doing it to save christian values of europe? , Oh yeah he is from some fringe group not mainstream like muslims 



> In the Christian Post, Ed Stetzer wrote that Breivik's profile did not match the US version of conservative Christianity. He says:
> 
> Perhaps "fundamentalist" means something else in Norway, but I don't know any "Christian fundamentalist" that has connections to Freemasonry, watches True Blood on HBO, and thinks the church should return "back" to Roman Catholicism.


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## sadated_peon (Jul 24, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> I didn't say he was an atheist, but he states himself to be non-religious in his own manifesto. I don't know if he's agnostic or just doesn't have an opinion about religion altogether. He seems to adhere to Christian values as an institution, he mentions Christian humanism.
> 
> I actually found those quotes in the manifesto, here is the entire context:
> 
> ...





Shinigami Perv said:


> If you're interested, here is an entire perspective on his views of religion. I would say he sounds more like a secular agnostic than anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ok, did bother to read my quotes?

He believes that he will go to heaven and a christian martyr, he demands the taken down of the seperation of church and state, and destroying secularism.

How this makes him an secular agnostic is beyond me. Agnostics don't pray to god, and secuarlists believe strongly in church and state seperation. 

If here a full quote on his opinions on seculraism
"Christianity’s presence in the structures of power that mould the paradigm of culture and society. Christians must reclaim the commanding heights of media, parliaments, councils, business and governmental authority. They must storm the walls between church and state and remove all traces of Liberal Modernity. They must do so from an authentically Christian narrative and worldview. 

Christian political thought therefore cannot concede that the secular realm should have been, should be or should remain, in the hands of a godless ideology."

He is very much theist who believes in the bible, and very against secularism for the future of Europe.

I find troubling that you try and portray him as an agnostic secularist.


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## Elim Rawne (Jul 24, 2011)

Thor said:


> Online gaming made this guy the shining example he is. Just like the Columbine killers. Lost the line between fantasy and reality. Right?



Judging by the butthurt and inaccuracy of your response,I guess you're one of the tools who likes MW2


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 24, 2011)

If someone said Demon Souls caused this, I'd believe them.


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 24, 2011)

sadated_peon said:


> ok, did bother to read my quotes?
> 
> He believes that he will go to heaven and a christian martyr, he demands the taken down of the seperation of church and state, and destroying secularism.
> 
> ...



I did read your quotes and I can understand why his ramblings are very confusing. Two people could easily take away different conclusions from his writings. He believes things that are so nuanced it borders on holding contrary beliefs. 

Here is the statement that I found key:



> I’m not going to pretend I’m a very religious person as that would be a lie. I’ve always been very pragmatic and influenced by my secular surroundings and environment. In the past, I remember I used to think;
> 
> 
> “Religion is a crutch for weak people. What is the point in believing in a higher power if you have confidence in yourself!? Pathetic.”
> ...



He goes on to say that he uses it like a crutch so that he can work up the nerve to die without fear. 

I agree with you that Christianity pervades all his motives, I just think it's more of a cultural type of Christianity. He clearly believes that Europe was shaped by Christian humanism and thought, and he wants to preserve those traditions. 

The problem I have with the term "Christian fundamentalist" is that it makes one think of a Christian version of Osama bin Laden. Some sort of person who believes God is whispering into their ear, or that he is blessing their motives. This guy isn't like that, he doesn't even have faith that God exists.


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Jul 24, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> If someone said Demon Souls caused this, I'd believe them.


Ditto, that game is so annoying but good at the same time.


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## Toby (Jul 24, 2011)

This 9/11 comparison has to stop. 9/11 changed America, made it stricter and paranoid. Norway isn't going to get stricter. We are going to deal with this guy like the serious criminal that he is.

As for this murderer's ideals, I would not trust his own words at even a close glance. I think that a psychologist might have been able to help him see the real reasons for his anger, but it can't all boil down to hating Muslims and Norwegian democracy. His targets are symbols of social-democracy, which in tldr form is Optimus Prime politics - so he basically has issues with a world in which people have the same undeniable right to freedom and dignity. Perhaps he felt left out or neglected, but I doubt he was a true spirited humanist or Christian in any way whatsoever.

Also, according to one news-source lot of those rants in his posts are copies from the . So the origin of his work is debatable, as is the context. I haven't read Ted Kaczynski's manifesto, but if they are copy-works, then there will be confused messages throughout the entire manifesto as written by Anders Behring Breivik.


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## Dionysus (Jul 24, 2011)

Kaczynski dreamed of man shedding modern civilization, going back to roles that were shaped by evolution. An extremist survivalist. This Breivik doesn't sound at all like such a person. He seemed to adore the structures of Western Judeo-Christian civilization. Though, lifting from the Unabomber manifesto is still possible since Kaczynski did not much like socialists and had a lot to say as to why.

The Unabomber manifesto is an interesting read, up to a point.


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## Elim Rawne (Jul 24, 2011)

Toby said:


> This 9/11 comparison has to stop. 9/11 changed America, made it stricter and paranoid. Norway isn't going to get stricter. We are going to deal with this guy like the serious criminal that he is.



Yeah, I'm pretty sure Daily Mail and FOX will heed your advice


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## Scyt (Jul 24, 2011)

As I read this thread, lots of people point out the hypocrisy, that when a terrorist is Muslim, people label their religion as the motive, and when he is a Christian they do psychological profile to find his motive. 

But people dont realise that most, if not all, Muslim teorrists work in group. They have help from outside sources like other terrorist groups (AQ etc.), which motive is very clear, so people dont try to find the motive of the individual terrorist.

But this guy, he did it all by HIMSELF, it was he ALONE, who did all of this, without any help, without any connection to some terrorist groups. Thats why police and the media are trying to find out why he did it. They are trying to find, what can cause that a SINGLE man can do such an horrible act.

When terrorists from IRA or Basque group do something (blowing some stuff up) the police doesnt create their psychological profile because it is clear why he did it thanks to their connection to already known terrorist group.

In case if this man, he wasnt connected to ANY group (probably) thats why they are putting such a big emphasis on the reasons why he did it. Most people dont realise this.


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## The Space Cowboy (Jul 24, 2011)

You could probably do a pretty interesting taxonomy of terrorism had you the time and the motivation. 

Domestic terrorists are usually a very different sort than those acting under the umbrella of an established terrorist organization with defined goals. 

If you want an apt comparison to this guy, Timothy McVeigh would be your go-to guy.  Although even McVeigh didn't act alone.  I'll bet that this guy had at least one accomplice.


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## Scyt (Jul 24, 2011)

I too think, that he had at least one accomplice (to pull of something like that by oneself would be an astonishing thing), but I dont think that he had any help from some organization which was already skilled terrorist acts.

I dont even know if we should call him a terrorist. He is more like a mass murder with some goal (attention, point out some facts etc.). From what I understand, terrorist are working towards some bigger goal, they try to wreak havoc, to terrorize the people they see as their enemy (usually a whole country), they think they wage war against that country.
But this guy, he is more like someone who just hates a group of people and want to kill them. He doesnt want to terrorize the people or to wage a war, he just wants to kill the people he hates and see as traitors. At least thats what i think


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## Vegeta's Urine (Jul 24, 2011)

What are the gun laws in Norway? anyone know?


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## Nemesis (Jul 24, 2011)

Scyt said:


> I too think, that he had at least one accomplice (to pull of something like that by oneself would be an astonishing thing), but I dont think that he had any help from some organization which was already skilled terrorist acts.
> 
> I dont even know if we should call him a terrorist. He is more like a mass murder with some goal (attention, point out some facts etc.). From what I understand, terrorist are working towards some bigger goal, they try to wreak havoc, to terrorize the people they see as their enemy (usually a whole country), they think they wage war against that country.
> But this guy, he is more like someone who just hates a group of people and want to kill them. He doesnt want to terrorize the people or to wage a war, he just wants to kill the people he hates and see as traitors. At least thats what i think



He used terror tactics in his killing to try to get norway to change the way the country is run.  He is a terrorist.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 24, 2011)

classic domestic terrorist


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## Darklyre (Jul 24, 2011)

Toby said:


> This 9/11 comparison has to stop. 9/11 changed America, made it stricter and paranoid. Norway isn't going to get stricter. We are going to deal with this guy like the serious criminal that he is.



I'd say that this is far closer to the Oklahoma City bombing than 9/11, as far as bombing a government building and right-wing extremism goes.


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## sadated_peon (Jul 24, 2011)

Nemesis said:


> He used terror tactics in his killing to try to get norway to change the way the country is run.  He is a terrorist.



There is a slight difference. 

Most terrorism is done with the threat of future violence,
"Do what we say, or we will kill again"

This is different, there is no "again" with this, this is more
"I did this to get attention"

Both terrorism, but one was to try and force change through terror, another was to try and use terror as a "wake up call"(in quotes here)

But yea, both are terrorism.


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## Jin-E (Jul 24, 2011)

As for his religious sentiment, you have this bit:




> I prayed for the first time in a very long time today. I explained to God that unless he wanted the Marxist-Islamic alliance and the certain Islamic takeover of Europe to completely annihilate European Christendom within the next hundred years he must ensure that the warriors fighting for the preservation of European Christendom prevail. He must ensure that I succeed with my mission and as such; contribute to inspire thousands of other revolutionary conservatives/nationalists; anti-Communists and anti-Islamists throughout the European world.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 24, 2011)

Vegeta's Urine said:


> What are the gun laws in Norway? anyone know?



Do you think gun laws would have stopped this?


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## DisgustingIdiot (Jul 24, 2011)

Vegeta's Urine said:


> What are the gun laws in Norway? anyone know?



IIRC: They don't have a right to bear arms but if they pass some safety checks they're allowed to buy one for sport.


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## WizzzeR (Jul 24, 2011)

this guys is smoking crack... Marxists Islamist alliance? wtf is he...ohhh jeeze... and ffs as an Israeli i couln't feel more disgsuted to find out he is a "fan" of ours.

its literally the most revolting feeling i have ever felt from a terrorist... this guy is a game changer in the worldview of terrorist. and i hope Islamist groups won't scapegoat on this guy because of his erotic admiration to Israel.

you know if Israel knew of this guy intension, you bet the Mossad would have already had this wackhead buried in the river. this guy is no allie to Israel, this guy is an epic failure of mankind. this guy make me faceplam not out of sheer plain stupidity, but also despair and feeling of emptiness.

besides, quite the hypocrit for a Christian guy who believes in a second Crusade to be such a "pro" Israeli man... and everything he said about Israel is negated by the simple fact that Muslims do have ever right to live in Israel- a million of them. 

i hope Norway will have him killed in prison by some stage gang murder so that he will not even get a chance to babble and spew shit out of his mouth.

here in Israel, currently the right wing party is keeping us safe, but back in 95 the far right movement killed our prime minister, killed a potential chance of peace.


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## Vegeta's Urine (Jul 24, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Do you think gun laws would have stopped this?



I ask because if the laws are like the u.s then sure it makes me think he could get that equipment and armed himself solo, but if they have very strict laws then it makes me think someone or a group helped him arm himself to the teeth.


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## Mael (Jul 24, 2011)

What's funny, at least from the reactions from right-wingers and supremacists, is that this is what some would call the "tip of the iceberg."

Ha.

See if anything this only hurts such a movement.  Not only did one fail to reduce the population of those you rant against, you've solidified their movements in and now garnered a chuckle from Islamists everywhere, made martyrs of the people who were shot, destroy what could've been a budding anti-Islamist sentiment in Scandinavia since he wasn't the only one.

A true movement artist knows how to have *a fucking patsy*, a fall guy.  This nutjob didn't, and thus his viewpoint fails hard because of it.  I in no way agree with any of the dreck he posted, but for people to actually justify and think it accomplished something is lunacy.


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## Seph (Jul 24, 2011)

> According to Oslo reporter Goran Skaalmo, Brievik considers his act to be the "ultimate gift of love" to his country, and believes he should be "applauded and celebrated" for his "marketing plan", which he believes to be a step for himself along his path towards becoming the "perfect knight"



This guy is clearly insane.


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## Mael (Jul 24, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> This guy is clearly insane.



The supremacists, much akin to Islamists, will eat this up and think it's part of a greater movement.

Sad thing is, like the Islamic movement, it'll never last.

Enjoy futility, people.

/loving cynicism


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## The Space Cowboy (Jul 24, 2011)

I found it awfully disturbing that he wrote about killing people as if it was a video game.  Sick fucker.


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## Mael (Jul 24, 2011)

The Space Cowboy said:


> I found it awfully disturbing that he wrote about killing people as if it was a video game.  Sick fucker.



I'm wondering why psych screenings aren't done further.  

This of course will set an unnecessary backlash against video games instead of focusing on the actual threat of fringe mentalities and movements.  Call it ironic intolerance, but I'm finding the allowance of such things to become almost antithetical to what should be a greater progress.  There's really no difference between people like them who view the very Norwegians they shoot as race traitors (complete horseshit) and militant Muslims who wish to blow up the kuffar.

Honestly, why is this permitted to exist?  A feel-good notion of tolerance?


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jul 25, 2011)

There is no way to ban it though. This guy was Geert Wilders with a gun. If he had espoused these same views and just not shot people, he might have been elected in many areas of Europe. 

An alarming number of the things he was saying you can find anywhere on the net.


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## Mael (Jul 25, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> There is no way to ban it though. This guy was Geert Wilders with a gun. If he had espoused these same views and just not shot people, he might have been elected in many areas of Europe.
> 
> An alarming number of the things he was saying you can find anywhere on the net.



Yes there is...but we'd call that fascism now wouldn't we? 

People honestly do wonder why they're being screened more.  Well, it speaks for itself.


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 25, 2011)

One thing I would like to know is how he got an assault rifle. Seems to me like that should not be allowed. 

To me, this wasn't a failure of the system. He was too smart to be thwarted by any measures tolerable in a western-style democracy.


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## Mael (Jul 25, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> One thing I would like to know is how he got an assault rifle. Seems to me like that should not be allowed.
> 
> To me, this wasn't a failure of the system. He was too smart to be thwarted by any measures tolerable in a western-style democracy.



Strange...in places like Norway.  You'd think this was Texas.

Then up the ante and increase the measures.  Perhaps this should be as ostracized and exposed as Islamic fundamentalism.  I call for the same in the US.


----------



## Megaharrison (Jul 25, 2011)

I do think Norwegian law enforcement failed in one area in the aftermath. Until mid-day today, there really wasn't any sure definitive body count yet, which just creates anxiety throughout the nation and disturbs families. I'm not exactly sure why it took them 2-3 days to determine how many kids on the island were killed, and that's really the only law enforcement failure I see. When this kind of thing happens in Israel (or indeed the US/most other places) you usually get a definitive body count within a few hours.


----------



## TSC (Jul 25, 2011)

These two are same person? Never would of guess.


----------



## impersonal (Jul 25, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> I do think Norwegian law enforcement failed in one area in the aftermath. Until mid-day today, there really wasn't any sure definitive body count yet, which just creates anxiety throughout the nation and disturbs families. I'm not exactly sure why it took them 2-3 days to determine how many kids on the island were killed, and that's really the only law enforcement failure I see. When this kind of thing happens in Israel (or indeed the US/most other places) you usually get a definitive body count within a few hours.



A lot of people were killed in the water. Furthermore, it must be pretty difficult to determine the exact attendance at that party, and some are probably still in critical condition. So altogether, I think it's very understandable; I don't think any other police force would have done better.


----------



## Toby (Jul 25, 2011)

Dionysus said:


> Kaczynski dreamed of man shedding modern civilization, going back to roles that were shaped by evolution. An extremist survivalist. This Breivik doesn't sound at all like such a person. He seemed to adore the structures of Western Judeo-Christian civilization. Though, lifting from the Unabomber manifesto is still possible since Kaczynski did not much like socialists and had a lot to say as to why.
> 
> The Unabomber manifesto is an interesting read, up to a point.



I know, the only parts he has changed from his plagiarized extracts are the particular groups. He replaced words with his key interests, i.e. "multiculturalism" etc. A lot of the text is his own work, or that of others. 

The values he espoused are clearly not the same, but the rhetorical devices are - and that's why the message is extremely confused. The rhetoric of the Unabomber makes more sense than Breivik's nonsense. I wouldn't be surprised if he has plagiarized more, because it's clear that he doesn't have such a good grasp of English.

His first court meeting is today at 1PM here, but we still don't know if it will be open to the press or not. He wants it to be open so he can explain himself, but he also wants to wear a 'uniform'. 

Mega, over here our greatest concern was the response time that the Norwegian police needed to rush out to the island. As their police commissioner explained yesterday however, they only have two transports for their rapid response time - vans and speedboats. And there is no road-connection to the island. They don't have the capacity to drop a team with a helicopter either. But the army does, and now that this is made clear, I would be surprised to see the police not put in a request for a chopper for precisely this purpose.


----------



## impersonal (Jul 25, 2011)

Here's a honest summary of the video, for those who don't have 20 minutes to watch it (including trying to understand the barely readable small print in some parts).

There is also a 1500 pages manifesto, but it begins with "all ideology is stupid because it attempts to avoid reality" before it starts displaying its own ideological model. So after skimming through the first 10 pages I gave up; besides, it just seems to be an expanded version of the video.

Anyway, here's for the video:

*PART 1: "The rise of cultural Marxism"*

 Most cultural/societal evolutions (referred to as _"cultural Marxism"_, or _"political correctness"_) that happened after 1950s are bad. Multiculturalism is particularly bad (Muslims).
 These cultural evolutions are led _"for the sole purpose of annihilating anything European"_. The goal of their instigators is to establish a _"EUSSR"_ dominated by Muslims. (Why they would want that is unclear.)
 They control the media and schools. _"If this was in fact a free and open democracy our regimes would have ensured that for every professor/teacher/journalist with a cultural Marxist/Internationalist world view, there would be one professional who adhered to a cultural conservative/nationalist world view."_ Because it is not the case, we live in _"cultural Marxist dictatorships"_.

*PART 2: "Islamic colonization"*

 Islam is bad
 Muslim immigrants make more children and will eventually replace Christian Europeans. This is part of the Jihad.
 Muslim immigrants commit crimes (including rape or muggings). This is part of the Jihad.

*Part 3: "Hope" *

We must adhere to middle ages values: _"Strength, Honour, Sacrifice, Martyrdom"_
Follows a list of medieval military leaders, resisting Muslim invasions or participating in crusades.
Concludes with: _"Onwards, Christian Soldiers!"_. There will be a civil war that will be won in 2083 (? why the precision?) by the Christians.

*PART 4: "New beginning"*

 Waging the civil war against multiculturalism: _"multiculti"_ leaders are fair game.
 _"A single, successful and spectacular operation will inflict ideological damage (...). Our cynical but efficient approach to inflicting damage on the establishment of the multiculturalist regimes, although brutal, will force increased awareness to the Western European demographic and cultural  genocide."_
 _"Knight Templars (KT) Europe opposes all hate ideologies"_: multiculturalism (anti-European), Islam (anti-non-Muslim), Nazism (anti-jewish).
 _"KT is a "cultural Christian" (Christian identity) military order and NOT a "religious Christian" (Christian fundamentalism) organization."_ It is open to atheists/agnostics.
 _"Unity NOT diversity, Monoculturalism NOT multiculturalism, Patriarchism NOT Matriarchism, European isolationism NOT European imperialism"._ The _"Japanese/South Korean model"_=_"europe from the 1950s"_ is _"superior"_.
 _"WW2 is likely going to appear like a picnic compared to the coming carnage". (...) "Celebrate us, the martyrs of the conservative revolution, for we will soon dine in the kingdom of heaven."_
 Pictures of crusader knights and pictures of the killer toying around with weapons.

All in all, this is an extremely ideological position that mixes a lot of stuff together. Some of his points are silly (equating immigrant demography and criminality with "Jihad") others are retarded (state-imposed political ratios in education or the press).

The nature of the KT organization he claims to be part of is a bit unclear: are they religious or not? They claim to be all about _"identity"_ rather than religion per se, but there are also references to faith. But clearly they are a terrorist organization (aiming to kill political opponents). In terms of values, they are surprisingly close to Islamic terrorism: rejection of western liberalism and capitalism, rejection of feminism, promotion of traditional values, claims of persecution, very important place given to martyrdom.

He hints at some valid points with regards to contemporary issues in democracy (excessive political correctness/media indoctrination) or multiculturalism (failed integration of large Muslim communities). But he fails to see the problems properly (eg. the economic model of the media, or the integration models across Europe) and he adds a lot of nonsense to it. This is common to intellectual scams: mix a few good ideas gathered elsewhere with a lot of bullshit and sell the whole mix as a _"take it or leave it"_ package.


----------



## Juno (Jul 25, 2011)




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## impersonal (Jul 25, 2011)

Well, I'm trying to figure out the ideological mix behind the mass murder. I'm not trying to add to the man's crimes but rather simply attempting to explain them.


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## Mael (Jul 25, 2011)

impersonal said:


> Well, I'm trying to figure out the ideological mix behind the mass murder. I'm not trying to add to the man's crimes but rather simply attempting to explain them.



It said that the man was originally a member of Norway's Progress Party but left due to continuously ignored complaints of political correctness.  He tried going the political route and when that didn't work, violence became an answer.

If anything, he was viewing the people in the building and in the camp as race traitors, potential sycophants to the "evils of multiculturalism" that apparently were going to rape his country blind.

He denies criminal guilt, so he's clearly bonkers, as if not just the human toll but property damage and illicit use of firearms/explosives were also permissible.  Do not take that the wrong way plz, I'm just saying it's multi-faceted.

What's hilarious in the end though is that every supremacist and ever anti-cultural swinging dick (and vagina) out there will try to champion this as the tip of the iceberg. If anything, it's another flailing attempt to scream against what will become the inevitable.  Imagine what'll happen when humanity expands outward.

I love futility in regards to this.  I love it because I love seeing those who desperately deny what they seek as futile succumb in the very end.


----------



## Jin-E (Jul 25, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> There is no way to ban it though. This guy was Geert Wilders with a gun. If he had espoused these same views and just not shot people, he might have been elected in many areas of Europe.
> 
> An alarming number of the things he was saying you can find anywhere on the net.



Unfortunately i have to agree.

In Norway, online newspaper articles have a commentary section and his views are pretty widespread among anonymous readers. The extreme opposition to Muslim immigration, the idea that Muslims and Socialists together plot to destroy Western culture and rape Western women, describing our PM as a traitor etc is all something that shows up in every relevant article.

I am not saying the majority of Norwegian believes it. But among those bothering to debate on such sites, im sure atleast tens, if not hundreds agree with Breivil's general ideas, allthough they might reject his violent approach.

I dont typically like the word "Islamophobia", but some of these people clearly breach acceptable Islam criticism.


----------



## Mael (Jul 25, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> Unfortunately i have to agree.
> 
> In Norway, online newspaper articles have a commentary section and his views are pretty widespread among anonymous readers. The extreme opposition to Muslim immigration, the idea that Muslims and Socialists together plot to destroy Western culture and rape Western women, describing our PM as a traitor etc is all something that shows up in every relevant article.
> 
> ...



Then perhaps there isn't enough monitoring on right-wingers in Europe?

Yes, yes...I know Geert Wilders and all that, but if we screen militant Muslims so much and ship 'em to Gitmo, maybe there ought to be a Gitmo for lefty loonies and people like Brevik?


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 25, 2011)

@impersonal

Thank you for the summary.

Very confused and warped worldview if you ask me.


Plagiarising?

The fiend!


----------



## Jin-E (Jul 25, 2011)

Mael said:


> Then perhaps there isn't enough monitoring on right-wingers in Europe?
> 
> Yes, yes...I know Geert Wilders and all that, but if we screen militant Muslims so much and ship 'em to Gitmo, maybe there ought to be a Gitmo for lefty loonies and people like Brevik?



They do, but they have usually focused on typical skinheads and Neo-Nazi groups, who aside from the occasional brawling with leftists are relatively harmless. Breivik did everything he could to distance himself from them as he was aware that associating with them would put him on the security services watch list.


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## Xyloxi (Jul 25, 2011)

Mael said:


> Then perhaps there isn't enough monitoring on right-wingers in Europe?
> 
> Yes, yes...I know Geert Wilders and all that, but if we screen militant Muslims so much and ship 'em to Gitmo, maybe there ought to be a Gitmo for lefty loonies and people like Brevik?



There isn't in the UK, the EDL (English Defence League) isn't even classified as a far-right organisation, which means they can't be searched as much.

I agree, just because someone is a white European whose native to that country doesn't give them the right to live there in my opinion. I'd gladly see all of these Islamists and far-right nutcases deported from European society. I can't really comment on "lefty loonies" though, as they aren't exactly dangerous in the UK. They're just irritating journalists who back the working classes, Asians and black people in their newspaper collumns, but they wouldn't want to live anywhere near them.


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## soulnova (Jul 25, 2011)

So did he already talk? o_O It is past 1pm there, right?


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## Mael (Jul 25, 2011)

soulnova said:


> So did he already talk? o_O It is past 1pm there, right?



The court's making it rather private, but the manifesto speaks of some overreaching revolution that will never exist.

What he speaks of will only manifest when armed forces of Arab nations come rolling in...which will be never.


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## The Space Cowboy (Jul 25, 2011)

soulnova said:


> So did he already talk? o_O It is past 1pm there, right?



The Guardian is doing a liveblog of it.  The whole court thing is behind closed doors as to not give this jackass a platform for his views.




> Anders Behring Breivik, the man charged with two terror attacks in Norway last Friday, has appeared before a judge in Oslo amid angry scenes. The 35-minute hearing was held behind closed doors because of security fears and a desire not to give the far-right Breivik a platform for his views
> 
> ? Police say they may have overestimated the number of people killed on Ut?ya island and are expected to revise the death toll down from 93 later today
> 
> ...



Other highlights include him buying 0.3 kg of sodium nitrate in Poland for a small sum.  However since he used a fertilizer bomb, the sodium nitrate is irrelevant as fertilizer bombs use ammonium nitrate.  Sounds like he tried to feel out a source for explosives materials there and didn't find it.


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## Kahvehane (Jul 25, 2011)

I just want to bring this to everyone's attention. This is one of the things he's so worried about:



			
				A European Declaration of Independence said:
			
		

> 3.92 The rapid extinction of the Nordic genotypes
> A 2002 study found that the prevalence of blue eye colour among European-Americans in
> the United States to be 57.4 percent for those born from 1899 through 1905 compared
> with 33.8 percent for those born from 1936 through 1951. Blue eyes have become
> ...



...yeah


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## Seph (Jul 25, 2011)

> wtf you doing anders... this is just sick.. he was always the nicest guy.... i knew anders for 3 years we spoke many many nights over vent and !@#$. and i reconised hes pic from unit/goosfrabas webbsite on the swedish newspaper site aftonbladet. this is unreal for me. im chocked. i NEVER tought he could do anything like this. i truley hope they got the wrong guy and its all a missunderstanding . and if it aint, im %^-*ing going to puke..



Woooow this is really fucked up.


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## soulnova (Jul 25, 2011)

Light Artist said:


> I just want to bring this to everyone's attention. This is one of the things he's so worried about:
> ...yeah




Well, now you know it. Marry your cousin to keep those blue eyes going, otherwise the world will implode without the Nordic gene!! 

... oh wait.


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## Saufsoldat (Jul 25, 2011)

The guy now says there are two more "cells"


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## Mael (Jul 25, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> The guy now says there are two more "cells"



PROTIP: Search and destroy.


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## soulnova (Jul 25, 2011)

Mael said:


> PROTIP: Search and destroy.



Deploy Navy Seal Team Six.  Doo eet!


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## Jin-E (Jul 25, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> The guy now says there are two more "cells"



Heard it too, but dont know if he means in Norway or in all of Western Europe.

Could be lying BS he says to scare people as well.


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## MunchKing (Jul 25, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> The guy now says there are two more "cells"



Oh joy.

More crazy mofos.


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## Mael (Jul 25, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> Heard it too, but dont know if he means in Norway or in all of Western Europe.
> 
> Could be lying BS he says to scare people as well.



Could be, but best to not assume it's a lie.


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## DisgustingIdiot (Jul 25, 2011)

Apparently the overall death toll has been cut to 76.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14280210



> Police have now revised down the island killings to 68 but increased the bomb death toll by one to eight.


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## soulnova (Jul 25, 2011)

26 less dead... but still. 

Not surprised all the people wanted to lynch him when he got to court. There are really few instances when you actually manage to get your hands on terrorist... and they are not in pieces.


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## Seph (Jul 25, 2011)

He actually looks satisfied.


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## Mael (Jul 25, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> He actually looks satisfied.



He should be.  In his twisted little mind he thinks he sparked a revolution.

Of course that'll never come to pass and it will be fun to see his reaction ten years down the road when nothing happens from his action.

Ah futility...you're like a drug.


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## Seph (Jul 25, 2011)

Seems like he already accomplished part of what he wanted according to what he said:



> Breivik stated the purpose of the attack was to "send a strong message to the people, and cause maximum amount of damage to the Labor Party to stop it's recruitment" and to stop “a deconstruction of Norwegian culture and mass-import of Muslims”.


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## Mael (Jul 25, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> Seems like he already accomplished part of what he wanted according to what he said:



If I see overwhelming change to policy, then it works. 

Until then, it's a thrashing desperation for a cause that will never gain that much ground until the IRGC stomps around in Oslo.


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## TSC (Jul 25, 2011)

Light Artist said:


> I just want to bring this to everyone's attention. This is one of the things he's so worried about:
> 
> 
> 
> ...yeah



yep that's probably one of the big concerns many of theses people have that made them go like this.

Many prideful nationalist/ethnicist are most racist/xenophobic because they few something like that will happen to their race/culture.


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## Mael (Jul 25, 2011)

TSC said:


> yep that's probably one of the big concerns many of theses people have that made them go like this.
> 
> Many prideful nationalist/ethnicist are most racist/xenophobic because they few something like that will happen to their race/culture.



And here I fail to see a difference between these European ultra-nationalists and your Iranian mullah.


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Jul 25, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwdCxV10FwQ[/YOUTUBE]



Also still can't believe people are talking as If he did something meaning. He killed a bunch of kids, I think that's the main thing the people of Norway will be thinking about.


----------



## Mael (Jul 25, 2011)

Sasuke_Bateman said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwdCxV10FwQ[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> 
> 
> Also still can't believe people are talking as If he did something meaning. He killed a bunch of kids, I think that's the main thing the people of Norway will be thinking about.



Fox News pretending it cares about right-wing terrorism.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 25, 2011)

Light Artist said:


> I just want to bring this to everyone's attention. This is one of the things he's so worried about:
> 
> 
> 
> ...yeah



lol, maybe if he married a colored girl , he could pass his blue eye genes on, as it is he his childless ass has done nothing to help his cause.  maybe he can have blue eyed babies in jail.


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## Saf (Jul 25, 2011)

Sasuke_Bateman said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwdCxV10FwQ[/YOUTUBE]


The worst part is, I'm genuinely surprised they even counted McVeigh as a terrorist.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Jul 25, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> He actually looks satisfied.


*Why does he remind me of that guy from pink floyd's "The Wall." in that pic?*


----------



## soulnova (Jul 25, 2011)

makeoutparadise said:


> *Why does he remind me of that guy from pink floyd's "The Wall." in that pic?*



More like the guy besides him. Both are wearing uniform I guess.


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## WizzzeR (Jul 25, 2011)

BAHH.. blah blah blah, politics, blah blah bla, manifesto... 

you know where it all begins? ROTTEN CHILDHOOD: check this out!


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## impersonal (Jul 25, 2011)

His father does appear to have been quite an asshole.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 25, 2011)

being estranged is not being an asshole.  that's just not being there.  

there's dads that beat their wives and families, come home drunk or drugged up, don't work and otherwise don't contribute.  

in other words, it  _can _be worse


----------



## ximkoyra (Jul 25, 2011)

That youth camp had a pro-Palestinian rally the day before he attacked them.  

And not unexpectedly, there are attempts to 'understand' this man and label him as a madman instead of the genocidal rage that would have ensued had he been a Muslim (i.e., a terrorist).


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## Megaharrison (Jul 26, 2011)

They indoctrinate kids with Palestinian ideology at these camps now? That's great and relevant for Norwegians to be doing. Why have a scavenger hunt when you can rage about da jooz.

In any regard hopefully Norway reconsiders that 21 year maximum sentence thing.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 26, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> They indoctrinate kids with Palestinian ideology at these camps now? That's great and relevant for Norwegians to be doing. Why have a scavenger hunt when you can rage about da jooz.
> 
> In any regard hopefully Norway reconsiders that 21 year maximum sentence thing.



would it be relevant for norwegians to stay silent on the issue?  I can't speak to norwegian values, but apparently they value that, so what's ur problem, not getting enough sympathy for ur own causes?


----------



## iander (Jul 26, 2011)

Yes apparently criticizing Israel is a sign of indoctrination.  It also means raging against Jews (Jews who criticize Israel are just self-hating Jews).


----------



## hcheng02 (Jul 26, 2011)

iander said:


> Yes apparently criticizing Israel is a sign of indoctrination.  It also means raging against Jews (Jews who criticize Israel are just self-hating Jews).



Criticizing Israel but shrugging and turning a blind eye to the atrocities of the Arab governments (which includes their mistreatment of Palestinians) shows a skewed sense of perspective at best. Jews and Liberals who are more focused on criticizing Israel aren't necessarily self-hating Jews - though no doubt many are - but they are most certainly useful idiots.


----------



## abcd (Jul 26, 2011)

WizzzeR said:


> BAHH.. blah blah blah, politics, blah blah bla, manifesto...
> 
> you know where it all begins? ROTTEN CHILDHOOD: check this out!



Well that explains why he was a female mage in WOW


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 26, 2011)

hcheng02 said:


> Criticizing Israel but shrugging and turning a blind eye to the atrocities of the Arab governments (which includes their mistreatment of Palestinians) shows a skewed sense of perspective at best. Jews and Liberals who are more focused on criticizing Israel aren't necessarily self-hating Jews - though no doubt many are - but they are most certainly useful idiots.



and we have proven in the last 5 posts that what u said is what norwegians are doing, that they "criticize Israel but shrug and turn a blind eye to the atrocities of the Arab governments (which includes their mistreatment of Palestinians)" and "show a skewed sense of perspective at best" ?  i guess abb killing 70 + kids isn't teaching anyone here a lesson about mouthing off.


----------



## hcheng02 (Jul 26, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> and we have proven in the last 5 posts that what u said is what norwegians are doing, that they "criticize Israel but shrug and turn a blind eye to the atrocities of the Arab governments (which includes their mistreatment of Palestinians)" and "show a skewed sense of perspective at best" ?  i guess abb killing 70 + kids isn't teaching anyone here a lesson about mouthing off.



How many camps are there that talk about the atrocities of Arab governments? How many of these activists would be willing to send a flotilla to Syria, Somalia, or the dozens of other countries that are more brutally oppressive than Israel? I would say very little, for the simple reason that it isn't as glamorous and they know that real dictators would not hesitate to shoot them up. 

This shooting has very little to do with Israel. In fact, from the last couple of posts it was the anti-Israel crowd who brought this up anyway.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 26, 2011)

He's saying he's part of a network now.


----------



## Seph (Jul 26, 2011)

He looks so calm and focused. I really think this guy is a genuine psychopath.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Jul 26, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> He looks so calm and focused. I really think this guy is a genuine psychopath.



That picture wasn't taken during the shooting rampage, I'm sure there's tons of people who have a picture of them calmly holding a cool-looking gun.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 26, 2011)

The news made a point that even when you look at Home Grown terrorists, Islam is still a problem. What gets me about this is that despite everyone acting like its so horrible now, the reason why everyone blamed them was because we've only seen this for the past few years on this scale. I'm willing to bet that this guy anticipated that.


----------



## Seph (Jul 26, 2011)

> That picture wasn't taken during the shooting rampage, I'm sure there's tons of people who have a picture of them calmly holding a cool-looking gun.



It was taken around a day, I believe, before the massacre.

It shows that he was mentally prepared for what he was about to do. No normal person would ever be ready for that sort of thing.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 26, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> It was taken around a day, I believe, before the massacre.
> 
> It shows that he was mentally prepared for what he was about to do. No normal person would ever be ready for that sort of thing.



A person who never has done something like that would. It's easy to hold a gun and look cool when you've never had to do it before. You're more likely to see a soldier flinch because they know what its like to actually have to use a gun than a civilian who thinks they're living in a video game world.


----------



## Seph (Jul 26, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> A person who never has done something like that would. It's easy to hold a gun and look cool when you've never had to do it before. You're more likely to see a soldier flinch because they know what its like to actually have to use a gun *than a civilian who thinks they're living in a video game world*.



Are you REALLY suggesting that a normal person wouldn't be bothered about what he was going to do the next day / few days? How would you feel if you were going to go on a massacre the next day? Be honest.

You put it excellently yourself. He thinks he's in a video game world and isn't taking the massacre seriously at all, which is why I think he's a psychopath.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 26, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> Are you REALLY suggesting that a normal person wouldn't be bothered about what he was going to do the next day / few days? How would you feel if you were going to go on a massacre the next day? Be honest.
> 
> You put it excellently yourself. He thinks he's in a video game world and isn't taking the massacre seriously at all, which is why I think he's a psychopath.



Ordinary people often psych themselves up but when it comes to right before or in the moment they show signs of stress.


----------



## Seph (Jul 26, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Ordinary people often psych themselves up but when it comes to right before or in the moment they show signs of stress.



That just shows that you are completely ignorant of human behavior. There's not a single ordinary person who would not feel bad about doing that the next day.

You also failed to answer my question.

Let's look at the traits of a one kind of a psychopath:

*Glibness/superficial charm*

There's not much evidence for this, but it seems that he is:



> A former classmate has recalled that he was an intelligent student who often took care of people who were bullied. A former co-worker has described him as an "exceptional colleague"



*Grandiose sense of self-worth*

Yes. He believed that he alone would be able to change Europe.



> Breivik stated the purpose of the attack was to "send a strong message to the people and cause maximum amount of damage to the Labour Party to stop its recruitment" and to stop "a deconstruction of Norwegian culture and mass-import of Muslims". He added: "I had to save Norway and Western Europe from a Muslim takeover.



Furthermore,



> while a close friend of his stated that he usually had a big ego



*Pathological lying*

Yes, but there's not too much of evidence for this.



> In his manifesto, Breivik stated he used the company as a fa?ade to acquire the chemicals without raising suspicion



*Cunning/manipulative*

Same evidence as above.

*Lack of remorse or guilt*

YES. This should be obvious.

*Emotionally shallow*

I can't say for sure, to be honest. If you consider going on a massacre as emotionally shallow though, then yes.

*Callous/lack of empathy*

Yes, yes, and yes. He didn't have any problems killing all of those people.

*Failure to accept responsibility for own actions*



> The comments by Justice Minister Knut Storberget came a day after Anders Behring Breivik *pleaded not guilty in the twin attacks.*



He pleads not guilty, and admits he did the attacks? Seems like it to me.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm not saying that he's not. I'm just saying that picture proves little to nothing.


----------



## Seph (Jul 26, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I'm not saying that he's not. I'm just saying that picture proves little to nothing.





> There's not a single ordinary person who would not feel bad about doing that the next day.
> 
> You also failed to answer my question.



I'm just saying the fact that he was so emotionally prepared (photos were taken a day or a few days before the massacre) should be just an indicator of how fucked up he is.


----------



## Tion (Jul 26, 2011)

I just read the release of Breivik's diary entries in the paper. It's fucked up as hell.


----------



## soulnova (Jul 26, 2011)

Tion said:


> I just read the release of Breivik's diary entries in the paper. It's fucked up as hell.



Transcription or link?


----------



## Jin-E (Jul 26, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> He pleads not guilty, and admits he did the attacks? Seems like it to me.



His motivation was that, yes he admitted the attacks, but he denied the criminality of his acts. In his perverted mind, what he did was a good and beneficial thing.


----------



## Xyloxi (Jul 26, 2011)

I think its kind of ironic that this man's favourite TV programme is Dexter, when in fact Dexter would have him under the knife for this.


----------



## impersonal (Jul 26, 2011)

Xyloxi said:


> I think its kind of ironic that this man's favourite TV programme is Dexter, when in fact Dexter would have him under the knife for this.



I think it makes sense... He considers himself a vigilante of sorts, and he does horrible illegal stuff (dozens of murders), but with (in his opinion) good justification.


> I consider myself to be a laid back type and quite tolerant on most issues.  Due to the fact that I have been exposed to decades of multicultural indoctrination I feel a need to emphasise that I am not in fact a racist and never have been.


Oh man. It's probably somewhat true, too.


----------



## insanetrolllogic (Jul 26, 2011)

impersonal said:


> I think it makes sense... He considers himself a vigilante of sorts, and he does horrible illegal stuff (dozens of murders), but with (in his opinion) good justification.



True however Dexter openly acknowledges he is a monster and calls himself one (season 3). In season one he even says "That is not why I kill" when called out on his "justified killings" bullshit.

Dexter *does* believe what he is doing betters the world and finds some justification in it. But he has no illusions about what he is and why he does it.

This guy on the other hand...not even close.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Jul 26, 2011)

insanetrolllogic said:


> True however Dexter openly acknowledges he is a monster and calls himself one (season 3). In season one he even says "That is not why I kill" when called out on his "justified killings" bullshit.
> 
> Dexter *does* believe what he is doing betters the world and finds some justification in it. But he has no illusions about what he is and why he does it.
> 
> This guy on the other hand...not even close.



He openly acknowledges that his actions are atrocities.


----------



## insanetrolllogic (Jul 26, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> He openly acknowledges that his actions are atrocities.



I see. Thanks for pointing it out. But does he view himself as a monster as well? I did not read all of his ramblings. Because if he still views himself as a hero that will save Europe it is still a major difference.


----------



## zuul (Jul 26, 2011)

outrageaous kitchen psychology being my thing :

Guy seems to have not taken very well to be raised by a single mom and the lack of father figure. His obssession about the feminization of European society etc.

But medias will tell us that sort of poor family structure is not detrimental to the kids at all.  
Don't have any shame about divorcing people it won't arm your children at all !!


----------



## impersonal (Jul 26, 2011)

zuul said:


> outrageaous kitchen psychology being my thing :
> *
> Guy seems to have not taken very well to be raised by a single mom and the lack of father figure. His obssession about the feminization of European society etc.*
> 
> ...



Not just that. He was also taking protein shakes, steroids... and testosterone supplements 

Still, he did have a terrible father.


----------



## Jin-E (Jul 26, 2011)

impersonal said:


> Not just that. He was also taking protein shakes, steroids... and testosterone supplements
> 
> Still, he did have a terrible father.



And yet....in many of his personal anecdotes in the manifest he uses "<3" at the end

Doesnt exactly scream manly warrior


----------



## Mael (Jul 26, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> And yet....in many of his personal anecdotes in the manifest he uses "<3" at the end
> 
> Doesnt exactly scream manly warrior



Nowhere is shooting kids half your age without means of defense (i.e. weapons just to be clear) manly.


----------



## soulnova (Jul 26, 2011)

> Of his stepmother Tove, he writes she was "very intelligent" but obviously a "traitor".
> "Although I care for her a great deal, I wouldn’t hold it against the KT (Knights Templar) if she was executed during an attack," he wrote.



 well, that's lot's of care right there. 

Been reading reports in Spanish that his lawyer says Anders really thinks he's in the start of a 60 year war.


----------



## Jin-E (Jul 26, 2011)

Mael said:


> Nowhere is shooting kids half your age without means of defense (i.e. weapons just to be clear) manly.



No offense, but duh


----------



## Saufsoldat (Jul 26, 2011)

Are we really going to bring up daddy issues because his rich diplomat father was never around? Boohoo, millions of kids around the world get beaten senseless by their parents or don't have any parents and they still don't go on a murderous rampage.


----------



## Mael (Jul 26, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Are we really going to bring up daddy issues because his rich diplomat father was never around? Boohoo, millions of kids around the world get beaten senseless by their parents or don't have any parents and they still don't go on a murderous rampage.



Always gotta find a reason outside of the obvious.


----------



## impersonal (Jul 26, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Are we really going to bring up daddy issues because his rich diplomat father was never around? Boohoo, millions of kids around the world get beaten senseless by their parents or don't have any parents and they still don't go on a murderous rampage.


Sure, but that's still an obvious factor in this particular murderous rampage, so we're going to bring it up. Besides, it was more than you're making it to be; I mean they had not spoken for about 15 years.


----------



## zuul (Jul 26, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Are we really going to bring up daddy issues because his rich diplomat father was never around? Boohoo, millions of kids around the world get beaten senseless by their parents or don't have any parents and they still don't go on a murderous rampage.



It doesn't excuse. 

But the fact is that with a father this dude may not have turned that bad.


Besides coming myself from a shit family with shit parents I'm going to feel concerned about this particular point of his past.


----------



## V The Wonderman (Jul 26, 2011)

Horrible. Since i live close to the norway, goddamn newsites don't talk about anything else than color of the shit of the killer or his favorite video-game. It's the top news around here, so what can you do. Same shit was going on when we had those couple of school shootings. I can only hope this Breivik gets taste of justice, altought seems the 
prison he's going might same as be five-star motel. 

Personally, got worried over friend who actually lives around there and haven't had a contact to him since the incident, so im starting to get little worried. According to the public news here they publish names of the victims in hour and half. Probably longest 
wait of my life then.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 26, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Are we really going to bring up daddy issues because his rich diplomat father was never around? Boohoo, millions of kids around the world get beaten senseless by their parents or don't have any parents and they still don't go on a murderous rampage.





zuul said:


> It doesn't excuse.
> 
> But the fact is that with a father this dude may not have turned that bad.
> 
> ...



well, the daddy issues might seem insignificant, it's true, but not to be glib, for this fellow his dad's absence/departure may have been traumatizing, and different people deal with trauma in vastly different ways.  The dad's absence could be the single most pervasive factor in shaping his mental issues.  But to me that would put him in a smaller percentile of people who get deeply traumatized by such things.  But i definitely think it happens.


----------



## Seph (Jul 26, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> well, the daddy issues might seem insignificant, it's true, but not to be glib, for this fellow his dad's absence/departure may have been traumatizing, and different people deal with trauma in vastly different ways.  The dad's absence could be the single most pervasive factor in shaping his mental issues.  But to me that would put him in a smaller percentile of people who get deeply traumatized by such things.  But i definitely think it happens.



You know, since you always joke around, I didn't think you'd say something smart.

This guy is clearly not normal, anyway. Even his lawyer said he's insane.


----------



## Mael (Jul 26, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> You know, since you always joke around, I didn't think you'd say something smart.
> 
> This guy is clearly not normal, anyway. Even his lawyer said he's insane.



If I hear insanity plea I'm going to lose it myself...ironically.


----------



## Adagio (Jul 26, 2011)

Obviously the defence is going to go for an insanity plea, what other options does the lawyer have?


----------



## Mael (Jul 26, 2011)

Adagio said:


> Obviously the defence is going to go for an insanity plea, what other options does the lawyer have?



Let me rephrase it.

The JURY better not be cowed.


----------



## Sky is Over (Jul 26, 2011)

Though I still think this man deserves to die for what he did, I think it's wasted potential on his part. If instead of using his energy to plot these attacks, he should of just written a book, it would've probably sold pretty good in the West basing it off what he's talked about in his Manifesto, probably could of became the J.A. Johnstone of Europe.


----------



## Jin-E (Jul 26, 2011)

From a Norwegian blogger. Cant help but agree with this.



> It is becoming clearer what Anders Behring Breivik's actions fall into, that he did not have any rational justification. It is pure nihilism, just like 9 / 11.
> 
> There is no logical connection between Behring Breivik's own reasoning and what he did. If he wanted to save the Western and European civilization, he did the opposite. He tried to kill it, and we can state: caused his cause extremely high damage, human, mentally, culturally and politically.
> 
> ...


----------



## Nemesis (Jul 26, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The news made a point that even when you look at Home Grown terrorists, Islam is still a problem. What gets me about this is that despite everyone acting like its so horrible now, the reason why everyone blamed them was because we've only seen this for the past few years on this scale. I'm willing to bet that this guy anticipated that.



yes all terrorists are islamic especially in europe if you don't count the 99.4% of attacks that are not islamic in nature



or the 94% in the US that are not.



Sure you may turn it around and say the size but you think if ETA or IRA


----------



## sadated_peon (Jul 26, 2011)

Nemesis said:


> yes all terrorists are islamic especially in europe if you don't count the 99.4% of attacks that are not islamic in nature
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ok, now lets compare deaths.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 26, 2011)

sadated_peon said:


> ok, now lets compare deaths.



now that's unfair, ur just pointing out how much fail the western terrorist are made of


----------



## T4R0K (Jul 26, 2011)

LOL, a member of the French far-right party Front National has been suspend because he praised Breivik's actions on his blog.

Article is in French, sorry : 

But my first sentence summarizes it !


----------



## Punpun (Jul 26, 2011)

Not surprising. He (the killer) embraced the same rethoric than them. There is a lovely article on this on Le Monde. (reaction of the fachosphere)


----------



## T4R0K (Jul 26, 2011)

Punpun said:


> Not surprising. He (the killer) embraced the same rethoric than them. There is a lovely article on this on Le Monde. (reaction of the fachosphere)



Is it in the free online version ?


----------



## Punpun (Jul 26, 2011)

There.


----------



## T4R0K (Jul 26, 2011)

Punpun said:


> There.



Merci, mon Pingouin !


----------



## The Space Cowboy (Jul 26, 2011)

T4R0K said:


> LOL, a member of the French far-right party Front National has been suspend because he praised Breivik's actions on his blog.
> 
> Article is in French, sorry :
> 
> But my first sentence summarizes it !



Suspended?  Being punched in the face would be more appropriate.

I'm inclined to agree with that Norwegian blogger that there was some straight up nihilism in Brevik's actions, but disagree with him about 9-11 being carried out by nihilists.  Taking out large symbolic targets makes a relative amount of sense.    

The part where he shot up a summer camp, and where the majority of the deaths were, just speaks of blood-lust on his part.  Even the Beslan school massacre was more coherent as a political act than Brevik running around on an island with an assault rifle.

You can't paint all styles of terrorists with the same brush.


----------



## T4R0K (Jul 26, 2011)

The Space Cowboy said:


> Suspended?  Being punched in the face would be more appropriate.



Yup. 

BTW, the comments in the link Punpun posted are very disgusting. I fear Breivik's created vocations...

They are in French, but let's say many praise him and hail him as "a Hero of the West"...

...

Stupidity kills.


----------



## Seph (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, what a great guy! He pointlessly killed 76 people for the sake of politics and accomplished nothing but despair, and made his political views look even more retarded!


----------



## Sasuke_Bateman (Jul 26, 2011)

Hero of the west....by killing  children? Wow, I'm moving to the cook islands


----------



## T4R0K (Jul 26, 2011)

Shit, I'm listening to Hans Zimmer when I work out... It's true it makes me want to do more repetitions when exercising.

...

Shit's brainwashing me ?


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 26, 2011)

i must listen to hardcore rap on days that i decide to commit terrorist acts

what a poor song choice to mass murder by ABB


----------



## impersonal (Jul 26, 2011)

The Space Cowboy said:


> Suspended?  Being punched in the face would be more appropriate.


I just checked out his blog... It's interesting that the guy has a lot of trouble with basic French grammar. He also replies to most comments attacking him with "hey momo", where "momo" is a diminutive for Mohammed.

Basically the guy is your average hardline, dumb FN militant with an IQ of 80 and the incapacity to think two consecutive thoughts (past what he's told) without it resulting in that blog.

Thank God a lot of the people voting for the FN are not that dumb and merely do "protest voting".


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 26, 2011)

i would put some punjabi on my ipod, for a murder fest


----------



## Seph (Jul 26, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> i would put some punjabi on my ipod, for a murder fest



HAHAHHAHHA


----------



## Talon. (Jul 26, 2011)

imma say what i need to say now and leave.

That whackjob was recently revealed to be a Christian fundie, talking about the "Knights Templar 2038" or some shit. 

/endthread


----------



## impersonal (Jul 26, 2011)

Talon. said:


> imma say what i need to say now and leave.
> 
> That whackjob was recently revealed to be a Christian fundie, talking about the "Knights Templar 2038" or some shit.
> 
> /endthread



That's been explained in proper detail (it's 2083 and not 2038, he's not so much of a religious fanatic as an extremely conservative ultra-nationalist, etc.) and debated to death again and again across the thread. Get out.


----------



## sugar_itachi (Jul 26, 2011)

lol at him admiring and supporting israel


----------



## Megaharrison (Jul 26, 2011)

sugar_itachi said:


> lol at him admiring and supporting israel



I know people will try to use this against us, but it's very simple to debunk: Osama Bin Laden is against Israel, so are all anti-Israeli people like Osama Bin Laden?


----------



## Punpun (Jul 26, 2011)

You mean.. Dead ? Good  job you fascist.


----------



## sugar_itachi (Jul 26, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> I know people will try to use this against us, but it's very simple to debunk: Osama Bin Laden is against Israel, so are all anti-Israeli people like Osama Bin Laden?



im in no way saying that israel has something to do this with that tragedy or that they are to blame even if im myself are somewhat "anti-Israel" (if you can call it that way)

but i just love the stormfront forum haha

some people are saying that he is a "Golem" created by jewish rites... and that he was an agent send by israel to punish norway because they support palestine .... he killed WHITE children... that zionist fucker! 

wow they are crazy


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 26, 2011)

sadated_peon said:


> ok, now lets compare deaths.



And if we calculate the number of Muslims killed by the USA and Russia in the last year those two large sections are going to vanish.

How is the 3000 from 9/11 going to compare to the 100, 000 from the Iraq war?

And if we scale it over the last ten years an American is still far more likely to be killed by a fellow American who will likely be a Christian than any foreigner or Muslim.


----------



## sadated_peon (Jul 26, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> And if we calculate the number of Muslims killed by the USA and Russia in the last year those two large sections are going to vanish.
> 
> How is the 3000 from 9/11 going to compare to the 100, 000 from the Iraq war?
> 
> And if we scale it over the last ten years an American is still far more likely to be killed by a fellow American who will likely be a Christian than any foreigner or Muslim.



Well if u want count the Iraq war then Muslim would claim the top prize by an even wider margin. The attacks upon civillians is much higher for Muslims than it is for American soldiers.

Muslim in the middle east dominate in killing civillians.


----------



## Outlandish (Jul 26, 2011)

sadated_peon said:


> Well if u want count the Iraq war then Muslim would claim the top prize by an even wider margin. The attacks upon civillians is much higher for Muslims than it is for American soldiers.
> 
> Muslim in the middle east dominate in killing civillians.



Don't you count the terroists attacks against Chechans cilvians by the Russian gov't legitment ? what about when Letvinenko who was poisoned by the KGB? He exposed Russia in his book 'Blowing up Russia' when they killed hundreds of their own people in aparrments, they blamed the Chechen Muslims!


What about the Sri Lanken killing fields however they're not all Muslim ?

TPN i'm sure the figures are much higher than hundred thousands!


----------



## maj1n (Jul 26, 2011)

Outlandish said:


> Don't you count the terroists attacks against Chechans cilvians by the Russian gov't legitment ? what about when Letvinenko who was poisoned by the KGB? He exposed Russia in his book 'Blowing up Russia' when they killed hundreds of their own people in aparrments, they blamed the Chechen Muslims!
> 
> 
> What about the Sri Lanken killing fields however they're not all Muslim ?
> ...


Shouldn't it be done by idealogy? 'non-muslims - muslim' seems to be grouping one idealogy (muslim) and every other idealogy together.

That one idealogy can have still such a significant representation against 'every other group together' is troubling indeed.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jul 27, 2011)

It'll cost alot to replace all those windows.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Jul 27, 2011)

76 Dead what happened to 92?!


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 27, 2011)

makeoutparadise said:


> 76 Dead what happened to 92?!



The police miscounted.

Simple as that.


----------



## impersonal (Jul 27, 2011)

makeoutparadise said:


> 76 Dead what happened to 92?!



It wasn't clear how many died in the water, and there would be no (easily found) bodies for these; furthermore there was no proper records of who was on the island. So counting was difficult and the first count was an overestimation.


----------



## Seph (Jul 27, 2011)

makeoutparadise said:


> 76 Dead what happened to 92?!



Kabuto brought them back to life.


----------



## sadated_peon (Jul 27, 2011)

Outlandish said:


> Don't you count the terroists attacks against Chechans cilvians by the Russian gov't legitment ? what about when Letvinenko who was poisoned by the KGB? He exposed Russia in his book 'Blowing up Russia' when they killed hundreds of their own people in aparrments, they blamed the Chechen Muslims!
> 
> 
> What about the Sri Lanken killing fields however they're not all Muslim ?
> ...



And I can include the Saddam's bombings of the Kurds, or the sudanese government's campaigns against civilians in darfur. 

But Each step we take here is taking us further and further away from original point of this discussion terrorism in Europe and the U.S. in recent years...

Do you have any actual counter for the fact that Muslims terrorist killed more people over the last 10 years in U.S. and Europe then all other terrorist groups combined?


----------



## Mael (Jul 27, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> Kabuto brought them back to life.



I'd prefer an overrated manga not be part of this discussion.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> And if we calculate the number of Muslims killed by the USA and Russia in the last year those two large sections are going to vanish.
> 
> How is the 3000 from 9/11 going to compare to the 100, 000 from the Iraq war?
> 
> And if we scale it over the last ten years an American is still far more likely to be killed by a fellow American who will likely be a Christian than any foreigner or Muslim.



"Number of deaths from terrorist attacks".

It is irrelevant what you can show with statistics that are themselves irrelevant.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Jul 27, 2011)

erictheking said:


> "Number of deaths from terrorist attacks".
> 
> It is irrelevant what you can show with statistics that are themselves irrelevant.



Then please name the criteria that you'd accept.


----------



## Mael (Jul 27, 2011)

Maybe we can all just agree that a lot of people died. 

Figuring out who's to blame is like the chicken and egg.

I still firmly believe this guy's actions is going to in the end go nowhere despite the giddiness from some supremacists across Europe.  I'm going to enjoy watching the ideals get shattered by relativism and inevitability.  The only thing I'm going to hope for, though, that in all of this there is some serious inflection to immigration, assimilation, and the recommended surveillance of fringers/groups.




> At the very least, the tragic murder-spree of Anders Behring Breivik has highlighted just how strange and foreign much of Europe can still appear to Anglosphere eyes — even in this late age of globalization.
> 
> The victims of Utoya island, for example, were not only gunned down in a mysterious place most of us have never heard of, but were participating in a political party “youth camp,” which, though common in European societies, have no real equivalent in North America. In the wake of this site’s recent debates over language, it was similarly somewhat jarring to note just how effortlessly bilingual the killer apparently is, a reflection of a growing European understanding that one’s native tongue is essentially reserved for the private and familial, while anything public or important — even murder manifestos — are best done in English. Likewise, the context of Breivik’s unique brand of Muslim-hate was similarly forged in the thoroughly particular setting of his own distinctly European upbringing, an affluent Olso suburb with a heavy presence of Muslim gangs. Even in our most paranoid, Herman Cain-esque moments, it’s hard for us on this continent to fully appreciate what a western society with a significant Muslim presence is actually like. It’s a reality most of us will never directly experience, so comparatively weak and scattered are our Muslim populations.
> 
> ...




Interesting and somewhat true take on it, IMO.


----------



## impersonal (Jul 27, 2011)

@Mael: This is written by an American who's never been to Europe or, if he did, never paid much attention to any of his surroundings. His statements regarding European languages in particular are overflowing with dumb ignorance. He makes some good points - in particular, he has some knowledge of the new european right, but overall, even there he is not really qualified for writing about this stuff.

For example, the "knee-jerk hate on darkies" is obviously very present in these movements; and it is this part that has kept them discredited for so long across Europe, thereby encouraging excessive openness.

Christian sentiments are not always present, but some of the extreme groups forming this movement are very Christian. Etc. He piles up many inaccuracies about such things...


----------



## Mael (Jul 27, 2011)

impersonal said:


> @Mael: This is written by an American who's never been to Europe or, if he did, never paid much attention to any of his surroundings. His statements regarding European languages in particular are overflowing with dumb ignorance. He makes some good points - in particular, he has some knowledge of the new european right, but overall, even there he is not really qualified for writing about this stuff.



Actually JJ is Canadian. 

I see the subtle swipes at bilingualism and some lack of knowledge, but describing Brevik himself is where I see the credit.


----------



## zuul (Jul 27, 2011)

impersonal said:


> Christian sentiments are not always present, but some of the extreme groups forming this movement are very Christian. Etc. He piles up many inaccuracies about such things...




I heard on radio that prior to that Norway had problems with far rights groups actually burning down historical wooden churches because they saw Christianism as not truely European, and just other middle east BS.


----------



## Seph (Jul 27, 2011)

If he hated Muslims so much, why didn't he go and kill a bunch of Muslims?


----------



## |)/-\\/\/|\| (Jul 27, 2011)

A bit of immigration and caused such terrorism -- in a wealthy state. Wonder what occupation would bring, coupled with poverty.


----------



## Xyloxi (Jul 27, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> If he hated Muslims so much, why didn't he go and kill a bunch of Muslims?



He saw the social democrats as the cause of multiculturalism, thus why he killed them.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 27, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Then please name the criteria that you'd accept.



I'll restate the only point I made. The issues that The Pink Ninja referred to: the religion of the victims of US/Russian professed "terrorism", the statistics of the 100,000 in Iraq, and the proportion of non-Muslim to Muslim murderers in America, are all irrelevant to what was being discussed. The Muslims weren't killed for their religion - even if you argue that Russian state terrorism should be included in the numbers. 100,000 Iraqis were not killed by American terrorist attacks (doesn't even satisfy the condition of intentional killing). The domestic homicide statistic was just weird.

But - if I was trying to measure the prevalence of various types of terrorism, I would definitely include more criteria than the number of deaths caused by terrorism, or the number of attacks.



|)/-\\/\/|\| said:


> *A bit of immigration* and caused such terrorism -- in a wealthy state. Wonder what occupation would bring, coupled with poverty.



To be fair, it was a bit of the other thing (global/Western Islamic terrorism) as well.


----------



## Megaharrison (Jul 27, 2011)

Apparently the gunman has said if it weren't for Norway's gun control laws he would have purchased the Ruger Mini-30 over the Mini-14. Pretty good that didn't happen, the .30 Winchester cartridge is much more powerful and deadly than the .223 Remington he used.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 27, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Apparently the gunman has said if it weren't for Norway's gun control laws he would have purchased the Ruger Mini-30 over the Mini-14. Pretty good that didn't happen, the .30 Winchester cartridge is much more powerful and deadly than the .223 Remington he used.



Given the fact that the kids were sitting ducks with the only means of escape being a swim of several hundreds of yards in ice cold water, I doubt a more powerful weapon would have made much of a difference.

But you're right.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 27, 2011)

i wouldn't want to get hit by any of those


----------



## Saufsoldat (Jul 28, 2011)

Thethiala said:


> It's strange this hasn't been blown up by the media yet. Using Modern Warfare 2 to simulate operations and finding a show about a serial killer hilarious? Yeah...



MW2 is in no way realistic, he was obviously just a fanboy. There's stuff like "America's Army" out there which is free and funded by the US government to be an actual military simulator.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 28, 2011)

He thought MW2 was the best military sim out there? yeah because you can really only carry two weapons and getting shot is okay so long as you do it in fifteen second intervals. Let's not even start on the story.


----------



## Xyloxi (Jul 28, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> He thought MW2 was the best military sim out there? yeah because you can really only carry two weapons and getting shot is okay so long as you do it in fifteen second intervals. Let's not even start on the story.



Of course its realistic, when you get shot all you need to do is hide behind a wall and your wounds will just vanish. :33 Then again I suppose going to a military hospital for six months wouldn't make a very good game.


----------



## G (Jul 28, 2011)

I blame Infinity Ward for all this


----------



## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Jul 28, 2011)

Xyloxi said:


> Of course its realistic, when you get shot all you need to do is hide behind a wall and your wounds will just vanish. :33 Then again I suppose going to a military hospital for six months wouldn't make a very good game.



Couldn't resist: 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5tRNs2X5Q4[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## T4R0K (Jul 28, 2011)

What a tool... Though I enjoy MW2 like I enjoy watching brainless movies, I would have played Halo for realism


----------



## zuul (Jul 28, 2011)

Since I'm such an hardcore Mario player, I'm probabely going to turn into some psycho mushroom crusher some day.


----------



## impersonal (Jul 28, 2011)

MW2 is realistic enough if your military training is all about attacking unarmed 16 years old with an assault rifle in the enclosed space of a small island.


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## Santeira (Jul 28, 2011)

He's just a religious fanatic gone over the edge, there's nothing else to it. He's just as bad as fuckers who suicide-bomb and what not.


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## Tion (Jul 28, 2011)

There are heaps of video releases on Livelinks on the aftermath of the shootings. Don't know if I can link them here because it's pretty graphic but a quick google will get you there.

Shit's so fucked, I cannot believe that he has actually triggered an amount of support for him. hurrrr fucking hurrrr.


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## impersonal (Jul 28, 2011)

Santeira said:


> He's just a religious fanatic gone over the edge, there's nothing else to it.


Half this thread explains what this guy is about. Ignore it if you want, but then don't "contribute".


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## Mael (Jul 28, 2011)

impersonal said:


> Half this thread explains what this guy is about. Ignore it if you want, but then don't "contribute".



I'd say a narcissistic sociopath instead of a religious nut, just to couple what you were saying in reply to the post.

The English Defense League of course posts a defensive message on its own website.  It's like Palin's PAC trying to cover its tracks when loonies here try to do shit.


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## Santeira (Jul 28, 2011)

impersonal said:


> Half this thread explains what this guy is about. Ignore it if you want, but then don't "contribute".



I didn't read them. And I'm just stating what I feel. I don't need your "approval" to do so.


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## Mael (Jul 28, 2011)

Santeira said:


> I didn't read them. And I'm just stating what I feel. I don't need your "approval" to do so.





YOU CAN'T MOD ME, NARUTO MAAAANN!


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## Santeira (Jul 28, 2011)

Mael said:


> YOU CAN'T MOD ME, NARUTO MAAAANN!



You got that right.


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## impersonal (Jul 28, 2011)

Santeira said:


> I didn't read them. And I'm just stating what I feel. I don't need your "approval" to do so.



You're stating what you "feel" instead of reasoning for a few seconds, or instead of working a bit on reducing your ignorance. As a result your post is idiotic and your contribution to the thread is negative.

And I don't need your approval to tell you to lurk more.


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## Santeira (Jul 28, 2011)

impersonal said:


> You're stating what you "feel" instead of reasoning for a few seconds, or instead of working a bit on reducing your ignorance. As a result your post is idiotic and your contribution to the thread is negative.
> 
> And I don't need your approval to tell you to lurk moar.



I don't have time for that. And I don't care if people think my post in anime forum is idiotic. I'm not insecure of how 'right' I am.


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## Punpun (Jul 28, 2011)

So fuck off.


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## Santeira (Jul 28, 2011)

Right after you.


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## Seph (Jul 28, 2011)

Santeira said:


> I didn't read them. And I'm just stating what I feel. I don't need your "approval" to do so.



That's how Muslims like you suicide bomb innocent people. Just care about how they feel instead of looking at the facts.


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## Santeira (Jul 28, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> That's how Muslims like you suicide bomb innocent people. Just care about how they feel instead of looking at the facts.



No, actually to think of me as a religious fanatic gone over the edge when I suicide-bomb is less unsettling to think of me as what I really am.


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## Toby (Jul 28, 2011)

zuul said:


> I heard on radio that prior to that Norway had problems with far rights groups actually burning down historical wooden churches because they saw Christianism as not truely European, and just other middle east BS.



Well, there have been some cases of arson but this is not as widespread as the rumour goes. It's very rare. But there is a group called Vigrid that refuses to acknowledge the Christian heritage of Norway, and considers it impure. They consider the Norse mythology the one and true religion of Norway. This is also a neo-Nazi group with outspoken members that are anti-Semitic. But the terrorist who attacked last week was, in fact, a right-wing nationalist - but not anti-Semitic and not a neo-Nazi either. 

While there is a common thread in nationalism and national socialism, the right-wing groups in Europe don't mix between the types. They rarely meet simply because they are a shunned minority and because some national groups don't get along with one another. 



Santeira said:


> No, actually to think of me as a religious fanatic gone over the edge when I suicide-bomb is less unsettling to think of *me as what I really am*.



And what might that be?


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## Santeira (Jul 28, 2011)

Toby said:


> And what might that be?



I'll tell you about it if we go out for a dinner.


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## Mael (Jul 28, 2011)

Santeira said:


> I'll tell you about it if we go out for a dinner.



But...but I thought we were speshul...


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## Santeira (Jul 28, 2011)

Mael said:


> But...but I thought we were speshul...



I've got too much love to give. You're still speshul, darling.


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## zuul (Jul 28, 2011)

Santeira said:


> I'll tell you about it if we go out for a dinner.


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## Santeira (Jul 28, 2011)

zuul said:


>



<3 zuul.


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## Seph (Jul 28, 2011)

God, will you shut the fuck up and stop being a sycophantic, pathetic attention whore? It's disgusting and despicable. This is a very serious situation.

Let's go on topic.



> Initially, as the besieged people from Ut?ya tried to call the emergency services, they were told to keep off the line unless they were calling about the Oslo bomb.



I find that quite incompetent to be honest. It turned out to be just a distraction.


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## Mael (Jul 28, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> God, will you shut the fuck up and stop being a sycophantic, pathetic attention whore? It's disgusting and despicable. This is a very serious situation.



Don't be jelly Sant's a pretty girl and you have zero game. 

You made the baseless assumption that she condones suicide-bombings.


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## Santeira (Jul 28, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> God, will you shut the fuck up and stop being a sycophantic, pathetic attention whore? It's disgusting and despicable. This is a very serious situation.


Somebody's mad.  




Mael said:


> Don't be jelly Sant's a pretty girl and you have zero game.
> 
> You made the baseless assumption that she condones suicide-bombings.


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## abcd (Jul 28, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> I find that quite incompetent to be honest. It turned out to be just a distraction.



It was a really wel planned attack, I give him that... He is one evil bastard.


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## Seph (Jul 28, 2011)

> You made the baseless assumption that she condones suicide-bombings.



It wasn't an assumption. It was a joke.



> It was a really wel planned attack, I give him that... He is one evil bastard.



Yes, he's very intelligent.


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 28, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> That's how Muslims like you suicide bomb innocent people. Just care about how they feel instead of looking at the facts.







abcd said:


> It was a really wel planned attack, I give him that... He is one evil bastard.




If all terrorists were like this guy, we'd be fucked. They really would be something to constantly worry about.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 28, 2011)

he's not really intelligent, this is nothing we haven't seen in any number of action movies with a murderous villain.  Most normal people usually don't take their works of fiction, be it movies or video games, as instruction.

He's devilish is what he is.


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## Seph (Jul 28, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> he's not really intelligent, this is nothing we haven't seen in any number of action movies with a murderous villain.  Most normal people usually don't take their works of fiction, be it movies or video games, as instruction.
> 
> He's devilish is what he is.



He manipulated a company into selling him dangerous fertilizer. He even had a police costume and a badge at the ready. He picked the perfect spot to go on a shooting without getting caught by the authorities for a while. Even the bombing was a mere distraction so he could go on a shooting for at least 45 minutes.

This guy is on another level from the Muslims. 9/11 did a lot more harm, true, but it wasn't exactly as amazing a strategy as this.


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## Mael (Jul 28, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> He manipulated a company into selling him dangerous fertilizer. He even had a police costume and a badge at the ready. He picked the perfect spot to go on a shooting without getting caught by the authorities for a while. Even the bombing was a mere distraction so he could go on a shooting for at least 45 minutes.
> 
> This guy is on another level from the Muslims. 9/11 did a lot more harm, true, *but it wasn't exactly as amazing a strategy as this.*



Is this for real?


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## Seph (Jul 28, 2011)

> Is this for real?



I'm just saying that this plan was a lot more complex and carefully planned than 9/11.

9/11 was, as far as I remember, just some filthy terrorists going into planes and taking people hostage to crash them into buildings. I don't recall it being much more complicated than that, but correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Mael (Jul 28, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> I'm just saying that this plan was a lot more complex and carefully planned than 9/11.
> 
> 9/11 was, as far as I remember, just some filthy terrorists going into planes and taking people hostage to crash them into buildings. I don't recall it being much more complicated than that, but correct me if I'm wrong.



9/11 was planned for years.


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## Shinigami Perv (Jul 28, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> I'm just saying that this plan was a lot more complex and carefully planned than 9/11.
> 
> 9/11 was, as far as I remember, just some filthy terrorists going into planes and taking people hostage to crash them into buildings. I don't recall it being much more complicated than that, but correct me if I'm wrong.



It was more than that. They were clever as fuck about how they went about 9/11. I remember they intentionally targeted planes that had distant destinations so that more fuel = more destruction. They had guys in training school on how to fly a plane but not land it. 

Strategically it was something on another level when you consider Al Qaeda's ultimate motive of getting us to overreact and drive a wedge between us and the Islamic world.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 28, 2011)

9/11 wasn't clever at all. take control of planes with plastic knives, crash it somewhere preferably of high value.  they had good coordination.

ABB had multi stage attacks, of which one was merely a diversion.  that's straight out of the dark knight.


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## Punpun (Jul 28, 2011)

But 9/11 also had multi stage attacks.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 28, 2011)

Punpun said:


> But 9/11 also had multi stage attacks.



no it didn't , it was 4 concurrent hijackings by suicide pilots


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## Punpun (Jul 28, 2011)

Totally. 4 differents attack at 3 differents place, or in other words A multi stage attacks.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 28, 2011)

Punpun said:


> Totally. 4 differents attack at 3 differents place, or in other words A multi stage attacks.



ugh, u don't know what the word means, i don't blame u, ur french, like DSK doesn't know the word "stop", or "no" or "do not want"


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## Punpun (Jul 28, 2011)

As if some american know how to properly speak english.


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## Seph (Jul 28, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> It was more than that. They were clever as fuck about how they went about 9/11. I remember they intentionally targeted planes that had distant destinations so that more fuel = more destruction. They had guys in training school on how to fly a plane but not land it.
> 
> Strategically it was something on another level when you consider Al Qaeda's ultimate motive of getting us to overreact and drive a wedge between us and the Islamic world.



I still think it was a petty plan. More fuel = more destruction is obvious and it's a given that you'd get hijackers who knew how to fly a plane.

I admire this guy's intelligence and ability to charm/manipulate people, simply put. I don't advocate these killings at all, but he really was smart.



> 9/11 was planned for years.



That's nice.


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Jul 28, 2011)

lol wtf did this thread turn into some kind of fandom war?


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 28, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> I still think it was a petty plan. More fuel = more destruction is obvious and it's a given that you'd get hijackers who knew how to fly a plane.
> 
> I admire this guy's intelligence and ability to charm/manipulate people, simply put. I don't advocate these killings at all, but he really was smart.
> 
> ...



that's what i said, it was a pretty simple plan. that being said it did take some forethought to plan.  

AQ never do things that aren't straightforward attacks. they say "i'm gonna fuck u up right here"

i guess if it was considered multi stage, it's that the attacks were meant to have a crippling economic effect, but that's not what the french aristocat above identified, so he's still wrong.


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## impersonal (Jul 28, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> Yes, he's very intelligent.


I wouldn't say that. His manifesto is often a bit stupid. More than anything, he was very highly motivated. And only someone like NarutoSimpson would think that this attack was more sophisticated than 9/11. I don't think there's any debate here if you ignore the trolls.


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## Mael (Jul 28, 2011)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> lol wtf did this thread turn into some kind of fandom war?



OMG EDO TENSEI ITACHI BIN LADENCHIHA CAN TTYL SHARINGAN TSUKIYOMI KAGE BREVIK BUNSHIN!


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## Seph (Jul 28, 2011)

impersonal said:


> I wouldn't say that. His manifesto is often a bit stupid. More than anything, he was very highly motivated.



There are plenty of intelligent people with stupid beliefs.


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## impersonal (Jul 28, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> There are plenty of intelligent people with stupid beliefs.



No, I mean it was downright stupid, in a very basic way. Not stupid as in "nationalism is stupid".

For example, at one point he says that a society is only democratic if you have quotas of ideologies for professional positions. There should be as many nationalist conservative Christian teachers and journalists as there should be for other ideologies, otherwise it's _"dictatorship"_. That's stupid, no matter how you look at it.

I'm not saying the guy was a moron, as in someone with a IQ of 85. I'd go as far as to say that he was slightly above average. But he was not "very intelligent" by any means. He was your average guy, except he had this crazy ideal and motivation.


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## Mael (Jul 28, 2011)

impersonal said:


> No, I mean it was downright stupid, in a very basic way. Not stupid as in "nationalism is stupid".
> 
> For example, at one point he says that a society is only democratic if you have quotas of ideologies for professional positions. There should be as many nationalist conservative Christian teachers and journalists as there should be for other ideologies. That's stupid, no matter how you look at it.
> 
> I'm not saying the guy was a moron, as in someone with a IQ of 85. I'd go as far as to say that he was slightly above average. But he was not "very intelligent" by any means.



He was full of himself.  I still think narcissist is more fitting.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Jul 28, 2011)

wouldn't u have to be pathological to be a terrorist, by definition.  martyrdom is pathological, bc science doesn't prove there is a god, and killing oneself in devotion to a religion...well, u take it from there.


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## impersonal (Jul 28, 2011)

Mael said:


> He was full of himself.  I still think narcissist is more fitting.


That's certainly part of it, and I guess you need that to be motivated, to think of yourself as having a mission of changing the world... It's typically more complicated than that though. From what I read, at the same time he had a crazy ambition and thoughts of self-importance, but also big self-esteem issues which made him want to prove something to the world.

Sorry, armchair psychology.


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## Seph (Jul 28, 2011)

> For example, at one point he says that a society is only democratic if you have quotas of ideologies for professional positions. There should be as many nationalist conservative Christian teachers and journalists as there should be for other ideologies, otherwise it's "dictatorship". That's stupid, no matter how you look at it.



Although it's stupid, it seems more like he's blinded by his beliefs, just like religious people. I don't think it's enough to discredit him too much. this guy really made a fool of the Norwegian police, Al Qaeda tried their best to take credit for the attack, that's how successful it was.

I don't know if such a narcissist can execute such a good plan just because he's determined.


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## Punpun (Jul 28, 2011)

You just have to read his plan to attack a nuclear plant to understand the guy was stupid.


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## Seph (Jul 28, 2011)

Punpun said:


> You just have to read his plan to attack a nuclear plant to understand the guy was stupid.



He's just living in a fantasy world. This is what a psychologist thinks:





> After reading the manifesto over several hours the first thing that struck me was just how meticulous Anders Behring Breivik had been in planning for the attacks in Oslo and Utoya.





> His writings are done in such a detached man they reveal a man who prided himself on attention to detail, a narcissist who is extremely disciplined.





> Throughout he justifies his actions from a Christian point of view, which he sees as pure and correct. It is not normal and shows he is living in a fantasy world.





> *But I think he is very intelligent who knew what he was doing but is clearly a psychopath.*



Seems like I was right on both counts.


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## Lavender (Aug 6, 2011)

I have heard that instead of getting the maximum sentence ( 21 years ) he will instead be sentenced for every single murder, which means that he will be in prison for well over 100 years.  Of coruse, it's not confirmed, but it sounds to me like the only reasonable punishment.  


He also seems to have problems with how lonely it is in his cell and that he didnt expect it.    Well, good for you, youre going too be in it for your entire life.   Get used too it.


I give my respects too Jens Stoltenberg, who have dealt with all this in the best manner possible in my opinion.


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## Seph (Aug 6, 2011)

> I have heard that instead of getting the maximum sentence ( 21 years ) he will instead be sentenced for every single murder, which means that he will be in prison for well over 100 years.



So, Norway can't obey it's own laws?

Jeez. How disappointing.


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## Darklyre (Aug 6, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> So, Norway can't obey it's own laws?
> 
> Jeez. How disappointing.



Seems to me as if they're obeying their laws to the letter.


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## Seph (Aug 6, 2011)

Darklyre said:


> Seems to me as if they're obeying their laws to the letter.



Emotions /=/ laws.

The maximum imprisonment is 21 years for any crime, right? 

Have other serial killers in Norway received more than 21 years?


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## Lavender (Aug 6, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> Emotions /=/ laws.
> 
> The maximum imprisonment is 21 years for any crime, right?
> 
> Have other serial killers in Norway received more than 21 years?



No, not of the tip of my tongue.  


What use would there ACTUALLY be in releasing him mafter 21 years?    He would be broke, he would absolutely not be able too walk on the streets of Norway, not without being either killed or assaulted, and no one would give a job too a newly released mass murderer.    There would be no-one, not even his own family, who would accept him after what he did.    Life inprisonment is actually doing him a favor when you think about it.


So yeah, even though it wouldnt really follow the usual Norwegian laws, it's the only thing that he deserves.


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## Seph (Aug 6, 2011)

He deserves it and all, but I wish Norway wouldn't break it's own laws. He'd get a life imprisonment anyway since he'd always be a danger to the society.


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## soulnova (Aug 6, 2011)

The People made laws, the People can change laws. 




> He also seems to have problems with how lonely it is in his cell and that he didnt expect it. Well, good for you, youre going too be in it for your entire life. Get used too it.



There was this other post on the Debate corner (or Philosopical subforum, I don't remember well), about a 4chan who went to jail for 2 years and related his time. He said the worst was being locked up in solitary and people would take drugs in order to loose track of time or they would go insane.

 Good.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 6, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> Emotions /=/ laws.
> 
> The maximum imprisonment is 21 years for any crime, right?
> 
> Have other serial killers in Norway received more than 21 years?



This is a special case, most serial killers never kill this many people and never on the same day.


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