# Ichibei and Yamamoto vs The Admirals



## Sabco (Apr 4, 2015)

Kizaru, Akainu, Aokiji, and Fujitora vs Bankai Ichibei and Bankai Yamamoto


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## Alita (Apr 4, 2015)

Admirals due to superior stats overall.


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## Sabco (Apr 4, 2015)

Alita54 said:


> Admirals due to superior stats overall.



how can they deal with ichibei's hax ?

how can they damage Yamamoto's sun shield ? [ ZnT West ]


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## Monna (Apr 4, 2015)

sabco said:


> how can they damage Yamamoto's sun shield ? [ ZnT West ]


Aokiji just freezes Yamamoto


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## Sabco (Apr 4, 2015)

Jane Crocker said:


> Aokiji just freezes Yamamoto


he can't freeze a 1500000c degrees shield 

again, what is stopping ichibei from erasing their names


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## Monna (Apr 4, 2015)

If Aokiji has better DC than Yamamoto then I don't see why he can't freeze him.


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## Imagine (Apr 4, 2015)

Time for another 20 page thread on Yama's bankai


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## Hardcore (Apr 4, 2015)

I'm in for it


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## shade0180 (Apr 4, 2015)

let see how this goes.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 4, 2015)

Jane Crocker said:


> If Aokiji has better DC than Yamamoto then I don't see why he can't freeze him.



Aokiji doesn't even have DC, he just freezes stuff. Either way, having massive physical stats is useless if you can't reach your opponent. Not that this hypothetical DC is higher than Yama's anyway


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## Gunstarvillain (Apr 4, 2015)

Thought we already had this. Add sage madara on team bleach we got a solid match.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 4, 2015)

I would argue that Yama would solo barring Kizaru


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## Mexikorn (Apr 4, 2015)

Jane Crocker said:


> If Aokiji has better DC than Yamamoto then I don't see why he can't freeze him.



I might have somewhat of an unique oppinion on dat but in this context I wouldn't count Aokijis Logia as a DC at all, it freezes stuff, not "destroy" it. "Destroy" as in smash, evaporate, annihalte, suck the lifeforce out of it. There's just a lair of cold around the target. And I don't know how cold his Logia is but a "Sun Shield" would be a counter to dat in my mind. It's just what my common sense tells me. That's why Aokiji lost to Akainu, albeit same DC, different ability mechanics.


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## Regicide (Apr 4, 2015)

Last I checked, the admirals and Yama actually had comparable DC.

It's just the dispersion and whatnot, or some shit.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 4, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Last I checked, the admirals and Yama actually had comparable DC.
> 
> It's just the dispersion and whatnot, or some shit.


Where do people generally place their(Yama and Admirals) DC here


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## Iwandesu (Apr 4, 2015)

isn't akainu the only admiral who faced wb quakes ?
barely even.
also ichibei hax ignores range and dura so unless they target him right from the start of the fight using their best attacks (as ichibei is not really weaker than them ) it is their lose.


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## Imagine (Apr 4, 2015)

Admirals are island level+ (84GT)

The consensus was that Akainu was the only one that got small country durability because he's  the only one that fought WB but Aokiji and Kiz are on the same level as him. Aokiji outright fought Akainu for 10 days straight.

I know Bleach top tiers are island level+ too but idk what number and I'm not looking it up


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## Byrd (Apr 4, 2015)

How do we take in account of logia dispersion in regards to their durability


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## Dr. White (Apr 4, 2015)

Is speed equalized


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## MAPSK (Apr 4, 2015)

Oh good, _this_ thread again


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## OneSimpleAnime (Apr 4, 2015)

If speed is equalized then Ichibei should take it with his hax, otherwise the Admirals probably take it


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## Sherlōck (Apr 4, 2015)

Imagine said:


> The consensus was that Akainu was the only one that got small country durability



No less than mid triple digit GT as DC for stalemating Whitebeard's quake.


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## Imagine (Apr 4, 2015)

Sherlōck said:


> No less than mid triple digit GT as DC for stalemating Whitebeard's quake.


I'm talking about durability, son


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## Source of Hate (Apr 4, 2015)

Imagine said:


> Admirals are island level+ (84GT)
> 
> The consensus was that Akainu was the only one that got small country durability because he's  the only one that fought WB but Aokiji and Kiz are on the same level as him. Aokiji outright fought Akainu for 10 days straight.
> 
> I know Bleach top tiers are island level+ too but idk what number and I'm not looking it up


And here I have R1 Ulquiorra at mult-island


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## Fujita (Apr 4, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> And here I have R1 Ulquiorra at mult-island



based on what exactly


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## Source of Hate (Apr 4, 2015)

Fujita said:


> based on what exactly


The big hole he made in the roof of Las Noches with the black cero


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## Fujita (Apr 4, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> The big hole he made in the roof of Las Noches with the black cero



can I see this calculation


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## Sherlōck (Apr 4, 2015)

>> Waiting for continent size Las Noches.

>>


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## Source of Hate (Apr 4, 2015)

Fujita said:


> can I see this calculation



Well according to Nel, the sides of Las Noches are at least a 6-day walk each. The diameter of the hole Ulquiorra made is nearly half of Las Noches length, so a 3-day walk more or less. And it took Ichigo's group quite some time to run through the external wall to arrive inside. So we can get a low-end volume with these


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## shade0180 (Apr 4, 2015)

................................. er...........................................

so how did you get the size with that?


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## Regicide (Apr 4, 2015)

Nope, that's bullshit.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 4, 2015)

shade0180 said:


> ................................. er...........................................
> 
> so how did you get the size with that?


We have diameter, so area of the circle and a low end depth for the volume. A cilinder


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## shade0180 (Apr 4, 2015)

Where's your diameter?


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## Source of Hate (Apr 4, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Nope, that's bullshit.



I haven't even typed a value, just stuff from the manga


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## shade0180 (Apr 4, 2015)

That's the point there's no value... to type.. so why are you making your own?


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## Source of Hate (Apr 4, 2015)

shade0180 said:


> Where's your diameter?



For ex. 3mph for 3 days I guess


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## Regicide (Apr 4, 2015)

Shade, stop being retarded.


Source of Hate said:


> I haven't even typed a value, just stuff from the manga


The point is that there's no reason to take what Nel says as being legit.

She's a little kid and the gate she's referring to may not even be on Las Noches itself.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 4, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Shade, stop being retarded.
> The point is that there's no reason to take what Nel says as being legit.


If not, then what is? Ichigo's group didn't even try to correct her.



> She's a little kid and the gate she's referring to may not even be on Las Noches itself.


But Las Noches does have a gate in the middle


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## shade0180 (Apr 4, 2015)

Fine.


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## Regicide (Apr 4, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> If not, then what is? Ichigo's group didn't even try to correct her.


Why the fuck would they care to? Hell, why would they? They're not from Hollowland.

It doesn't matter because they're not going to spend the time to look for a gate anyways, that's why they blew a hole in the wall.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 4, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Why the fuck would they care to? Hell, why would they? They're not from Hollowland.


Even in comic relief they always respond. Specially to Nel, since she pronounces everything differently.



> It doesn't matter because they're not going to spend the time to look for a gate anyways, that's why they blew a hole in the wall.


They blew the hole because it was too massive to spend time on it. They have been making reference towards the size ever since they took the first step in the desert.

Nel just quantifies it


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## Alita (Apr 4, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> isn't akainu the only admiral who faced wb quakes ?
> barely even.
> also ichibei hax ignores range and *dura* so unless they target him right from the start of the fight using their best attacks (as ichibei is not really weaker than them ) it is their lose.



I'm skeptical about the bolded tbh.


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## Aphelion (Apr 4, 2015)

Alita54 said:


> I'm skeptical about the bolded tbh.



His power attacks your _name_.  That's about as abstract and non physical as you can get.


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## Monna (Apr 4, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> Aokiji doesn't even have DC, he just freezes stuff. Either way, having massive physical stats is useless if you can't reach your opponent. Not that this hypothetical DC is higher than Yama's anyway





Mexikorn said:


> I might have somewhat of an unique oppinion on dat but in this context I wouldn't count Aokijis Logia as a DC at all, it freezes stuff, not "destroy" it. "Destroy" as in smash, evaporate, annihalte, suck the lifeforce out of it. There's just a lair of cold around the target. And I don't know how cold his Logia is but a "Sun Shield" would be a counter to dat in my mind. It's just what my common sense tells me. That's why Aokiji lost to Akainu, albeit same DC, different ability mechanics.


So Aokiji just doesn't even have a destructive capacity just because his move set is focused on his ability to freeze things?

Oh man. Classic fucking logic.


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## Alita (Apr 4, 2015)

Aphelion said:


> His power attacks your _name_.  That's about as abstract and non physical as you can get.


So even if the character has multiverse level durability it can work on them solely cause they have a name? I don't know about that tbh. There might need to be a meta done on it to discuss it properly.


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## AgentAAA (Apr 4, 2015)

Alita54 said:


> So even if the character has multiverse level durability it can work on them solely cause they have a name? I don't know about that tbh. There might need to be a meta done on it to discuss it properly.



we do that with other kind of hax.
A multiversal dura character who somehow got to that point without having any hax resistance would still be vulnerable to ginyu's body change
Or alternately, mindrape comes up as something similarly ridiculous and far more common you still need to show resistance to.
In comparison, this is far more abstract and esoteric.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Apr 5, 2015)

So, what is exactly Yama's and Ichibei's speed ? Yama's DC is on teraton and can fuck up everyone here(Except for maybe Sakazuki, but I'm pretty sure not), Ichibei's DC is somehow irrelevant as he attacks your name or some wanked bullshit that Kubo made it up . Kuzan, Fujitora, Kizaru and Sakazuki all have DC at at least 84 Gt, with Sakazuki probably having way more than that , I'm looking at a scenario here where it all comes down to speed . Kuzan, Fujirota, Kizaru and Sakazuki solid get mach 1948 . What is Ichibei's and Yama's speed ? I'm pretty sure MHS, isn't it ?


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

Jane Crocker said:


> So Aokiji just doesn't even have a destructive capacity just because his move set is focused on his ability to freeze things?
> 
> Oh man. Classic fucking logic.



He has DC, but it's not something you can base off his freezing or scale off of, say, Akainu. At most you could say that they would have an equivalent striking strength. But you can't compare between two completely different devil fruits


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

So how much energy is required to pulverize 200,000 cubic miles of concrete?


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## Dellinger (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> He has DC, but it's not something you can base off his freezing or scale off of, say, Akainu. At most you could say that they would have an equivalent striking strength. But you can't compare between two completely different devil fruits



I doubt that Aokiji gravely injured Akainu with just his physical strength.It was an all out devil fruit battle and it was equal.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 5, 2015)

they clear


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> So how much energy is required to pulverize 200,000 cubic miles of concrete?



something on the order of single digit teratons iirc


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

White Hawk said:


> I doubt that Aokiji gravely injured Akainu with just his physical strength.It was an all out devil fruit battle and it was equal.



No he obviously used all his abilities. What I'm saying is that in terms of DC, one can only scale striking strength to Aokiji, and with caution at that, considering freezing stuff doesn't count as DC. Not all OP fights are fought with pure DC. Luffy vs Crocodile


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

Nightbringer said:


> something on the order of single digit teratons iirc



I thought as much, thanks.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 5, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Why the fuck would they care to? Hell, why would they? They're not from Hollowland.
> 
> It doesn't matter because they're not going to spend the time to look for a gate anyways, that's why they blew a hole in the wall.



Pretty sure darths meta(?) about ln using angsizing gives you country+ or so size anyway.


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## VongolaDecimo72 (Apr 5, 2015)

couldnt ichibei solo this


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## Tir (Apr 5, 2015)

> Even in comic relief they always respond. Specially to Nel, since she pronounces everything differently.



Nel could have been just exaggerating thing or had no idea what she was talking about. How the hell do you quantify day and night in las noches or Hueco Mundo? It's bright all the time in LN and night all the time in Hueco Mundo. 



> They blew the hole because it was too massive to spend time on it. They have been making reference towards the size ever since they took the first step in the desert.
> Nel just quantifies it




If we based thing like what you have done, we'd have so many country sized thing and planet level characters all over the place.


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## Dr. White (Apr 5, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> So, what is exactly Yama's and Ichibei's speed ? Yama's DC is on teraton and can fuck up everyone here(Except for maybe Sakazuki, but I'm pretty sure not), Ichibei's DC is somehow irrelevant as he attacks your name or some wanked bullshit that Kubo made it up . Kuzan, Fujitora, Kizaru and Sakazuki all have DC at at least 84 Gt, with Sakazuki probably having way more than that , I'm looking at a scenario here where it all comes down to speed . Kuzan, Fujirota, Kizaru and Sakazuki solid get mach 1948 . What is Ichibei's and Yama's speed ? I'm pretty sure MHS, isn't it ?



Mach 29+


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

Tir said:


> Nel could have been just exaggerating thing or had no idea what she was talking about.


Considering she knew Runoganga's weakness and details about Aizen's army including recognizing Grimmjow as the Espada number 6, I'd say she is well informed.



> How the hell do you quantify day and night in las noches or Hueco Mundo? It's bright all the time in LN and night all the time in Hueco Mundo.


That suggests that Nel's words were Kubo's words. You think Kubo wrote that line just to be random, after all the drama Ichigo's group displayed about Las Noches' size? Not to mention that it is not the first time that Kubo has depicted size by days walked





> If we based thing like what you have done, we'd have so many country sized thing and planet level characters all over the place.


It's a case-by-case scenario. Everything is


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## Dr. White (Apr 5, 2015)

^ Kubo didn't calc the shit, and authors exxagerate all the time via character statements. Like Oda calling Chinjao a continent buster. He's not, he's an island buster. 

It's even more untrustworthy when it's a description of damage from an observing character (unless we have some reason to believe said person is knowledgeable and knows exactly what they're talking about).


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> ^ Kubo didn't calc the shit,


That's your assumption



> and authors exxagerate all the time via character statements. Like Oda calling Chinjao a continent buster. He's not, he's an island buster.
> 
> It's even more untrustworthy when it's a description of damage from an observing character (unless we have some reason to believe said person is knowledgeable and knows exactly what they're talking about).


Oda only said that Chinjao split the continent. That can be interpreted in many ways.

You can't choose which statement is hyperbole and which is not out of convenience, which is what everyone seems to be doing nowadays. All the happenings in HM arc support Nel's statement to boot. You would have to prove her wrong.


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## Dr. White (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> That's your assumption
> 
> Oda only said that Chinjao split the continent. That can be interpreted in many ways.
> 
> You can't choose which statement is hyperbole and which is not out of convenience, which is what everyone seems to be doing nowadays. All the happenings in HM arc support Nel's statement to boot. You would have to prove her wrong.



No I don't have to prove her claim wrong. You have to prove that her claim is correct.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> No I don't have to prove her claim wrong. You have to prove that her claim is correct.



Prove Ichigo's hair is orange. It's called character exposition. Fictional statements are true until contradicted. Otherwise everything is a lie


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 5, 2015)

VongolaDecimo72 said:


> couldnt ichibei solo this



yes


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

> Prove Ichigo's hair is orange. It's called character exposition.* Fictional statements are true until contradicted. *Otherwise everything is a lie



inb4 solar system cell


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## MAPSK (Apr 5, 2015)

shade0180 said:


> inb4 solar system cell



inb4 lightspeed everything


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

shade0180 said:


> inb4 solar system cell



Please don't act as if your post is not an opinion. I'd have to look into Cell's case bacause I don't even remember.

But for example statements from Saint Seiya, do you dismiss all of them and put them at wall level? House level for god tiers?


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

So does Rukia reach absolute Zero? Nope because it's just a statement, so I have to prove it then


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## Tir (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> Oda only said that Chinjao split the continent. That can be interpreted in many ways.


Actually, it was a random guy with little to no credibility. But you know~



> You can't choose which statement is hyperbole and which is not out of convenience, which is what everyone seems to be doing nowadays. All the happenings in HM arc support Nel's statement to boot. You would have to prove her wrong.


Well, case by case basis bro. Everything is. 






Source of Hate said:


> Prove Ichigo's hair is orange. It's called character exposition. Fictional statements are true until contradicted. Otherwise everything is a lie


Okay, large planet level Juubito is a thing now. LS Naruto, OP and FT too.



> So does Rukia reach absolute Zero? Nope because it's just a statement, so I have to prove it then


Yes. Same reason why KHR ain't relativistic.


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## MAPSK (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> Please don't act as if your post is not an opinion. I'd have to look into Cell's case bacause I don't even remember.
> 
> But for example statements from Saint Seiya, do you dismiss all of them and put them at wall level? House level for god tiers?





Source of Hate said:


> So does Rukia reach absolute Zero? Nope because it's just a statement, so I have to prove it then



It's called having evidence to support your claims, fucktruck. If we have a reason to believe a character is either ill-informed, lying, or boasting about their own power because they have a massive ego (i.e. Cell), then we don't accept a claim. If the claim either comes from someone with no reason to exaggerate their abilities or multiple people all saying the same thing and at least one of them is knowledgeable, then we usually accept it.


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## Regicide (Apr 5, 2015)

We actually do accept Rukia's absolute zero, it's just that it doesn't mean much anyways because we re-evaluated what absolute zero really meant in response to that chapter and determined that it wasn't actually hax.

But there wasn't much against it. There is with Las Noches, and we don't particularly have a reason to take what Nel says at face value.

Hell, I'm pretty sure I could scale Las Noches as one or two hundred meters across.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

Tir said:


> Well, case by case basis bro. Everything is.


Out of convenience*




> Okay, large planet level Juubito is a thing now. LS Naruto, OP and FT too.


Until contradicted*




> Yes. Same reason why KHR ain't relativistic.


So Rukia does not reach Absolute Zero? But it says she does in the wiki



MAPSK said:


> It's called having evidence to support your claims, fucktruck.


Well someone's salty. That may be in real life, but not in fiction. If I say there is a house in my manga through a character, nobody has to prove it's made of bricks instead of cheese.



> If we have a reason to believe a character is either ill-informed, lying, or boasting about their own power because they have a massive ego (i.e. Cell), then we don't accept a claim. If the claim either comes from someone with no reason to exaggerate their abilities or multiple people all saying the same thing and at least one of them is knowledgeable, then we usually accept it.


Ah, then you'd have to prove that the character is ill-informed, lying, boasting, exaggerating, or knowledgeable. Those _are_ your standards.


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

Well it is a case by case basis 

anything that we have no way of taking data basically we accept their word as long as they are not contradicted or it is within the realm of their universe...

example

anything with involvement to temperature are usually accepted at face value

anything with involvement to the lethality of poisons are also accepted at face value

and so on...


If this statement however is not possible in their realm.. but is mentioned... we obviously won't accept it.

example 

Lightspeed Sena (Eyeshield 21)

There's also a case where a character is just inflating his ego

SF Dan.. who gets murk by Sakura....

and so on

Then cases with Destructive Capacity and Speed

This one is where we basically don't usually accept things until proven otherwise. But there are also exceptions

If there is absolutely no reason to doubt a character statement.. then we most of the time approve this. 

If an omnipotent narrator exist we also approve this..


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

Regicide said:


> We actually do accept Rukia's absolute zero, it's just that it doesn't mean much anyways because we re-evaluated what absolute zero really meant in response to that chapter and determined that it wasn't actually hax.
> 
> But there wasn't much against it. There is with Las Noches, and we don't particularly have a reason to take what Nel says at face value.
> 
> Hell, I'm pretty sure I could scale Las Noches as one or two hundred meters across.



And this confirms that convenience is involved. Bias


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## MAPSK (Apr 5, 2015)

inb4 more of the usual whining noob shit


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

MAPSK said:


> inb4 more of the usual whining noob shit



Irony. Don't burst a vein


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## Mr. Black Leg (Apr 5, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> ^ Kubo didn't calc the shit, and authors exxagerate all the time via character statements. Like Oda calling Chinjao a continent buster. He's not, he's an island buster.



Actually, I'd like to remember that we are basing Chinjao's DC on splitting a country in One Piece, not a continent, since we don't have the continent map, the people who calc'd it, calc't it with the size of Alabasta, so Chinjao might have Continent busting DC .


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

> Like Oda calling Chinjao a continent buster.



Oda didn't call him a continent buster though. 

also you guys should understand that there are differences between

a buster. (They bust their target) = volume 
a life wiper. (They life wipe the targeted area) = Surface Area
and a splitter. (They split the target area) = Diameter


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

shade0180 said:


> Well it is a case by case basis
> 
> anything that we have no way of taking data basically we accept their word as long as they are not contradicted or it is within the realm of their universe...
> 
> ...


Take Yoruichi's 10-day statement. She is not boasting. And she couldn't have been lying or exaggerating considering she rather have them shot up and enter through the sky, very risky.

So why is it not accepted


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

Dunno ask the people who cares about bleach.


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## SunRise (Apr 5, 2015)

If there is no on panel pictures contradicting what she said (like Soul Society shots when you clearly see buildings which disproves Yoruchi's statement) or characters crossed this distance faster or there is no other direct contradictions - I don't see why Nel's words were thrown out.


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

Nel was thrown out because somehow the size of SS doesn't = with her statement or something. 

Ichigo's case is questionable because why do they need to drop the stair when 
1. Shinigami can fly....
2. They can just free fall
3 what's the link of the stairs and the time given by that other character?


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

VioletHood said:


> If there is no on panel pictures contradicting what she said (like Soul Society shots when you clearly see buildings in other case) or characters crossed this distance faster or there is no other direct contradictions - I don't see why Nel's words were thrown out.



The only thing that can be considered a contradiction is that Seireitei looks smaller in a couple of panels. But in those panels that are used for pixel scaling, the mountain ranges inside of Seireitei are not visible, and there _are_ mountain ranges. Thus meaning that Kubo doesn't draw Seireitei with any care and making pixel scaling unreliable.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

shade0180 said:


> Nel was thrown out because somehow the size of SS doesn't = with her statement or something.
> 
> Ichigo's case is questionable because why do they need to drop the stair when
> 1. Shinigami can fly....
> ...



I don't think wether or not the stairs are there matters. What is important is that he has to use Shunpo continiously which is faster than free falling actually.

Hey, so why do they accept Kirinji's 7-day statement and not all the other ones before? I actually know the reason, but everyone should realize themselves


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## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 5, 2015)

Regicide said:


> it's just that it doesn't mean much anyways because we re-evaluated what absolute zero really meant in response to that chapter and determined that it wasn't actually hax.




Sure.


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

> Hey, so why do they accept Kirinji's 7-day statement and not all the other ones before? I actually know the reason, but everyone should realize themselves




Again I really don't know I don't follow Bleach, most of the time.. 



I only follow it when I get curious about the topic.




> I don't think wether or not the stairs are there matters. What is important is that he has to use Shunpo continiously which is faster than free falling actually.



That's the problem, really. why would they drop the stair if it didn't matter... to the time the other guy announced...


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## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 5, 2015)

> Again I really don't know I don't follow Bleach, most of the time..


I'm pretty sure there's a reason why people shouldn't really post a comment on threads they don't really give a darn about.


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

I give a darn about the admirals though. 

basically we are off-topic.. 

inb4 UD


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

shade0180 said:


> Again I really don't know I don't follow Bleach, most of the time..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Flying in Bleach is very inconsistent. I have to check if it's the anime that makes it confusing. I do know that Shinigami are not supposed to be able to fly in Soul Society because Ichigo needed a device to reach Rukia in her execution. At least that's how it used to be. Maybe transcendents are an exception, or Quincies, i dunno

So maybe Ichigo needed the stairs to perform Shunpo on


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

I think Kubo turns flying on and off when it's covenient for the plot


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## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> So maybe Ichigo needed the stairs to perform Shunpo on



No, it's kinda obvious that he's using shunpo on his descent.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> No, it's kinda obvious that he's using shunpo on his descent.



You mean while falling? Actually he did ignore the stairs jumped off iirc


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## AgentAAA (Apr 5, 2015)

shade0180 said:


> That's the problem, really. why would they drop the stair if it didn't matter... to the time the other guy announced...



to get rid of the barriers that were already stated to be there?


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

so the stairs have the power to break barriers?


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

No that's not it, that's what Ichigo's new clothes are for. The stairs are maybe there for "safe" traveling. And maybe Ichigo ignored them to travel faster


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## lokoxDZz (Apr 5, 2015)

So we have barrier breaking stairs and god-tiers chairs in leach? Great




Pretty sure Ichigo jumped the middle of the spiral of the stairs and "what would take 7 days" he just shunpo all the way, he did before that is use shunpo > travel a certain distance a then shunpo again > repeat


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## Dr. White (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> Prove Ichigo's hair is orange.



*Spoiler*: __ 









*Spoiler*: __ 



*Color	**Wavelength* *Frequency* *Photon energy*
orange	590?620 nm	484?508 THz	2.00?2.10 eV






> It's called character exposition. Fictional statements are true until contradicted. Otherwise everything is a lie


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Obviously his hair is orange. You don't need a colored page to prove it. Heck, you don't need to prove anything because it's already stated


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## Dr. White (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> Obviously his hair is orange. You don't need a colored page to prove it. Heck, you don't need to prove anything because it's already stated





Let's get it


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Let's get it



Fine, I'll adress it. Based on what?


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## Dr. White (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> Fine, I'll adress it. Based on what?



Did you read the panel? Kuma repels Air at the speed of light, which causes a shockwave that can penetrate anything. Zoro  in the next panel (if you don't read OP) so therefore he is faster than light. 

Also Kuma has a laser in his mouth built from a light Power. So his lasers must be lightspeed,


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Did you read the panel? Kuma repels Air at the speed of light, which causes a shockwave that can penetrate anything. Zoro  in the next panel (if you don't read OP) so therefore he is faster than light.
> 
> Also Kuma has a laser in his mouth built from a light Power. So his lasers must be lightspeed,



Just because Kuma repels the air at light speed doesn't mean it maintains it for infinity. That is to say that it starts at light speed and decreases in speed very quickly, like sneezes.

2nd reacting to light speed attacks only gives them lightspeed reactions, not movement.

3rd the Pacifistas don't have light speed reactions, meaning that Zoro could have been aim-dodging in the same manner that a person can aim-dodge bullets fired by another person.

But outright saying that Kizaru's lasers are not light speed is like calling the author a liar, or saying that light does not travel at light speed


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## Iwandesu (Apr 5, 2015)

> But outright saying that Kizaru's lasers are not light speed is like calling the author a liar, or saying that light does not travel at light speed


nah, just too dumb to draw anything near to actual lasers
90% of kizaru's lasers works like magic laser just the mirror ones are more properly portrayed as lasers


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

3 words 

sword of light... 

Are you claiming that those particles are moving at light speed when they are obviously in a form of a sword....

and the movement is dependent on Kizaru's arm swing..



Kizaru's light isn't always lightspeed and there's no reason they should be unless it is shown otherwise..

also Kizaru's laser kick doesn't act as a normal laser..


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## Dr. White (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> Just because Kuma repels the air at light speed doesn't mean it maintains it for infinity. That is to say that it starts at light speed and decreases in speed very quickly, like sneezes.


You obviously don't know how Kuma's power works, can't read, or don't know how much energy is needed to propel something at the speed of light. You think it would dissipate in under 10 m 



> 2nd reacting to light speed attacks only gives them lightspeed reactions, not movement.


Zoro moved out of the way while the blast was mid air, and dodged far enough to get out of the blast radius.



> 3rd the Pacifistas don't have light speed reactions, meaning that Zoro could have been aim-dodging in the same manner that a person can aim-dodge bullets fired by another person.


So then you didn't read the panel in which Zoro is staring the laser beam down, as we can clearly see it's already been fired and halfway to him. That's not aim dodging.



> But outright saying that Kizaru's lasers are not light speed is like calling the author a liar, or saying that light does not travel at light speed


He only does when he completely converts himself into his logia element and reflects himself with his mirror move.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> nah, just too dumb to draw anything near to actual lasers
> 90% of kizaru's lasers works like magic laser just the mirror ones are more properly portrayed as lasers



Even if an author does not know every detail of every science, if is intent was to make a character light speed, then it is. It's fiction after all


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

Er yea that doesn't work here

our rule has always been feats over statement

And author intent can go to the Konoha landfill


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

shade0180 said:


> 3 words
> 
> sword of light...
> 
> ...


For now I only consider light speed Yata no Kagami and the lasers he shoots. You know, things that travel


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## Iwandesu (Apr 5, 2015)

"Author intent"=nothing but speculation without feats to back up
our politicians regarding statements are quite strong and on panel feats are considered>>them


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## Dr. White (Apr 5, 2015)

also pre skip Law was after it fired it's lasers. Which would require him to make a room, pick a spot,and then shambles before it hit him.

Them FTL Pre - Skip Supernova's


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## Regicide (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> And this confirms that convenience is involved. Bias


There's no bias in any of that, I'm one of maybe five Bleach supporters in the whole section


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

> the lasers he shoots. You know, things that travel



The problem is there's this feat where Kizaru's light is traveling at a very slow phase which isn't lightspeed..

the one where he reformed his body after getting cut in half...

so even his traveling light is not always in lightspeed. so that assumption can also go to the landfill...

the only consistent light speed we had is the mirror move.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

Suppose Zoro did have light speed movements, stated in databooks and everything. Why would that be a problem?


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

Databook.




And haku has an FTL hand seals in the databook

like we said

Canon representation > Fanbook


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

Regicide said:


> There's no bias in any of that, I'm one of maybe five Bleach supporters in the whole section



Yes becauseou said in other words that if Rukia's AZ were considered hax, then it wouldn't have been accepted


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## Iwandesu (Apr 5, 2015)

Regicide said:


> There's no bias in any of that, I'm one of maybe five Bleach supporters in the whole section


better than ft which is just mizuchi, zenath, a sectioned redfag and barely me.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

So you need a scientific explanation for something that happens in *fiction* even when it is not contradicted?


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

> Yes becauseou said in other words that if Rukia's AZ were considered hax, then it wouldn't have been accepted



wait what? 

Rukia would be accepted as AZ hax or not..

The problem is that Temperature stopped being ignored as hax since heat and loss of heat is a form of increasing and decreasing energy.

and NF works on calcs based on energy..


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## Dr. White (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> So you need a scientific explanation for something that happens in *fiction* even when it is not contradicted?



If pre skip zoro was lightspeed, post skip Zoro would be much faster and MFTL. If Zoro was lightspeed he would have have trouble getting to Pica in DR for his final attack. It's blatatnly obvious no OP characters besides Kizaru can move at Light speed. That's the whole point of his light speed move being special... Yet, a mid tier can physically replicate said feat?

Also,


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## Iwandesu (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> So you need a scientific explanation for something that happens in *fiction* even when it is not contradicted?


but of course
you can't just say everything is lol fiction 
if you do so calcs are meaningless and we will just be debating what the author meant doing x feat and how goku is likely just building level because he is afraid of syringues and gets scratched when throwed in hills


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

syringes are non canon.



40 kg is not though.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> If pre skip zoro was lightspeed, post skip Zoro would be much faster and MFTL. If Zoro was lightspeed he would have have trouble getting to Pica in DR for his final attack. It's blatatnly obvious no OP characters besides Kizaru can move at Light speed. That's the whole point of his light speed move being special... Yet, a mid tier can physically replicate said feat?
> 
> Also,



That would still be reaction, not movement. Side-stepping a car moving at 120mph is not the same as running at 120 mph.

And why do you give Zoro such a high speed boost in the timeskip?


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> but of course
> you can't just say everything is lol fiction
> if you do so calcs are meaningless and we will just be debating what the author meant doing x feat and how goku is likely just building level because he is afraid of syringues and gets scratched when throwed in hills



Wouldn't ftl characters be denied then?


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## Regicide (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> Yes becauseou said in other words that if Rukia's AZ were considered hax, then it wouldn't have been accepted


That's some absolutely awful reading comprehension. 

No, what I said was that absolute zero as a concept in general is no longer considered hax, and so whether or not Rukia actually reaches absolute zero is rather irrelevant because it comes down to feats anyways.

But regardless of whether or not absolute zero is considered to be hax for the purpose of versus debates, there was little reason to throw it out in Rukia's case, so we didn't.

Unless Las Noches, where we have a variety of reasons as to question the validity of the statement.


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

> Wouldn't ftl characters be denied then?



no... .. they wouldn't you'd just need to extend your numbers beyond what is normal in real world... because that's how their world works..


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## Dr. White (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> That would still be reaction, not movement. Side-stepping a car moving at 120mph is not the same as running at 120 mph.
> 
> And why do you give Zoro such a high speed boost in the timeskip?



No, dude.

If something is moving at you at light speed and is half the distance from the source and your body and you propel yourself not only out of the LOS of the Laser, but the subsequent blast radius, you had to have moved faster than the speed the laser was going. We're not talking about something going 125 Mph. Going LS means a hell of a lot more than you apparently think it does. I also posted a scan of Law odging it with his spatial manipulation which requires multiple movements by him and thought processing to due (which he did after the laser was shot).

Zoro would get a boost because h is canonically faster given his feats displayed since the timeskip along with his other stats.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

I guess different forums have different religions


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> No, dude.
> 
> If something is moving at you at light speed and is half the distance from the source and your body and you propel yourself not only out of the LOS of the Laser, but the subsequent blast radius, you had to have moved faster than the speed the laser was going. We're not talking about something going 125 Mph. Going LS means a hell of a lot more than you apparently think it does. I also posted a scan of Law odging it with his spatial manipulation which requires multiple movements by him and thought processing to due (which he did after the laser was shot).


Okay so it's an inconsistency



> Zoro would get a boost because h is canonically faster given his feats displayed since the timeskip along with his other stats.


Yeah but by hundreds of times?


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## shade0180 (Apr 5, 2015)

> Yeah but by hundreds of times?



Dr. white's example is pretty bad..

MFTL is 1000x faster than LS here...

Anyway the point is 

depending on how close the object hitting you....

your speed is relative to that..

let say the distance between you and the object is 1 meter...

you crossed a distance twice as the object at the same time the object crossed the 1 meter distance you two had.. that gives you twice the objects speed and so on...


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## MAPSK (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> I guess different forums have different religions



Last week someone compared calcs to slavery. Now we have this.

What the fuck?


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

MAPSK said:


> Last week someone compared calcs to slavery. Now we have this.
> 
> What the fuck?



I'm just saying forums have different ways of evaluating feats, nothing offensive


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## MAPSK (Apr 5, 2015)

Source of Hate said:


> I'm just saying forums have different ways of evaluating feats, nothing offensive



There was a better way of doing that than comparing it to a religion, m8. Unless you were trying to b8, in which I case I'd have to r8 it a negative 8 out of 8.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 5, 2015)

MAPSK said:


> There was a better way of doing that than comparing it to a religion, m8. Unless you were trying to b8, in which I case I'd have to r8 it a negative 8 out of 8.



Trust me, it's exactly like discussing religions. That's not something either bad or good so don't get hostile


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## Mr. Black Leg (Apr 5, 2015)

MAPSK said:


> Last week someone compared calcs to slavery. Now we have this.
> 
> What the fuck?



OH PLEASE DON'T TELL ME I MISSED THAT ? 

Fuck, I got active only these days because of easter being a holiday and I was home all easter since I'm atheist . FUCK I WANTED EASTER LAST WEEK TO SEE PEOPLE COMPARING CALCULATIONS WITH SLAVERY .


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## AgentAAA (Apr 5, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> OH PLEASE DON'T TELL ME I MISSED THAT ?
> 
> Fuck, I got active only these days because of easter being a holiday and I was home all easter since I'm atheist . FUCK I WANTED EASTER LAST WEEK TO SEE PEOPLE COMPARING CALCULATIONS WITH SLAVERY .



oh yeah, you totally missed it.

if I recall correctly, it was KuroiMugetsu, and it was something along the lines of "I know you guys agree on calcs, but people used to agree  back then on slavery being legal too, doesn't mean it was true or moral.".
Hilariously that's actually wrong given it was true that slavery was legal at the time.


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## All The Good Names Are Taken (Apr 5, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> oh yeah, you totally missed it.
> 
> if I recall correctly, it was KuroiMugetsu, and it was something along the lines of "I know you guys agree on calcs, but people used to agree  back then on slavery being legal too, doesn't mean it was true or moral.".
> Hilariously that's actually wrong given it was true that slavery was legal at the time.



He believes time will vindicate him :ignoramus


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## Solar (Apr 5, 2015)

I could've sworn that this was the same match as the last one.


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