# How skilled is Sakura in Taijutsu?



## Lyssandora (May 10, 2016)

How would you rate Sakura in Taijutsu?


----------



## Bonly (May 10, 2016)

In pure Taijutsu alone I'd say she's slightly above average thanks to her training with Tsunade but if we were to add in Ninjutsu such as Byakugo and her strength then her value would easily raise


----------



## cctr1 (May 10, 2016)

if we actually talk about the skills as in taijutsu skills like the hyuuga , gai , lee , then she's not skilled at all
she's just '' hulk smash , hulk destroy '' type of fighter

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Zensuki (May 10, 2016)

I'm guessing we're looking at skill here rather than strength. Her taijutsu was noted in her fight with Sasori so I'll say good. If we are taking into account her one shot capabilities then I would say top tier.


----------



## UchihaX28 (May 10, 2016)

I'd say she was one of the better fighters in terms of Taijutsu during the War Arc considering her evasive training received from Tsunade, her observational skills which aided in avoiding Sasori's attacks, and Byakugou. Hell, doesn't the Databook compliment her for her agility? I'd give her a 10 because she was flat out a genius, but that depends on what you consider a 10/10 to be.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (May 10, 2016)

Good if we are talking about no ninjutsu added. With her regen and ability to cause huge destruction to whatever she hit she moves up to very good.


----------



## Mercurial (May 10, 2016)

Sakura's taijutsu was good enough to be completely clowned by... Omoi.

So, I'm going with "mediocre" and even that is extremely generous. Just like Tsunade, her taijutsu isn't refined, skilled and swift but simply going smashy -smashy with chakra enhanced punches and kicks all around, which is also extremely linear and predictable for a faster and more skilled opponent.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## cctr1 (May 10, 2016)

Raikiri19 said:


> Sakura's taijutsu was good enough to be completely clowned by... Omoi.


 nailed it . Thread


----------



## FlamingRain (May 10, 2016)

Sakura's attention was on Karui.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## UchihaX28 (May 10, 2016)

Raikiri19 said:


> Sakura's taijutsu was good enough to be completely clowned by... Omoi.
> 
> So, I'm going with "mediocre" and even that is extremely generous. Just like Tsunade, her taijutsu isn't refined, skilled and swift but simply going smashy -smashy with chakra enhanced punches and kicks all around, which is also extremely linear and predictable for a faster and more skilled opponent.



We all know this was because she was pouring chakra into her Yin Seal which diminishes her reflexes and this isn't entirely something that degrades Sakura when Omoi was a skilled Kenjutsu user praised by Deidara and Sasori and also trained by the Great Killer Bee, a master in Kenjutsu.

 And of course, whatever FlamingRain said.


----------



## Saru (May 10, 2016)

Sakura is much like Tsunade in that she doesn't need to use a lot of finesse (i.e. skill) for her taijutsu to be effective, but unlike Tsunade, Sakura lacks any indication of (high) taijutsu skill in the first place. Sakura's taijutsu should certainly be above average, but Sakura has no feats to suggest that her taijutsu score improved leaps and bounds from what it was in the Third Databook (a 3). So, I would say she's above average at absolute worst, and she could be even better, but if she is, she certainly hasn't shown it.


----------



## Mithos (May 10, 2016)

Likely above average in terms of pure skill (I voted "good" in the poll). She had a 3 in the DB, but it's out-dated.

She doesn't really need a lot of skill though considering what her ground pound can do. If Sakura were to fight Base Lee, for example, Lee would get rag dolled and trashed despite his superior skill.


----------



## Itachі (May 10, 2016)

Above average. Tsunade seems like a person that would naturally be more skilled since she would have been using Taijutsu primarily as she had monstrous strength from the get-go. Though that would have all been stagnated when she became a medic, don't think she would have engaged in proper direct combat before Byakugo or Sozo Saisei. I don't think Tsunade has displayed much skill either, but she's never really needed to.


----------



## Ryuzaki (May 10, 2016)

I'd say she was good throughout the War Arc, nothing more than that though. Her 20-year time skip version should be at another level though, assuming she stuck with her training and etc.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 10, 2016)

Itachі said:


> Tsunade seems like a person that would naturally be more skilled since she would have been using Taijutsu primarily as she had monstrous strength from the get-go. Though that would have all been stagnated when she became a medic, don't think she would have engaged in proper direct combat before Byakugo or Sozo Saisei.



Why would it have stagnated when Tsunade became a medic? Considering Jiraiya's commentary about her accomplishments and that Tsunade demonstrated multiple offensive applications of medical Ninjutsu (alongside Tsunade's own comments during Sakura's flashbacks), it would seem to me Tsunade didn't stop engaging in combat prior to Sōzō Saisei or Byakugō.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## UchihaX28 (May 10, 2016)

Itachі said:


> Above average. Tsunade seems like a person that would naturally be more skilled since she would have been using Taijutsu primarily as she had monstrous strength from the get-go. Though that would have all been stagnated when she became a medic, don't think she would have engaged in proper direct combat before Byakugo or Sozo Saisei. I don't think Tsunade has displayed much skill either, but she's never really needed to.



Doesn't seem likely based on Tsunade's emphasis on evasion and monstrous strength.

Monstrous Strength seems pointless if you're not going to use it in the first place. When we witnessed Part 2 Sakura's initial performance against Kakashi and her performance against Sasori, she hardly acted as a support unit. She actually applied what she learned from Tsunade and engaged in direct combat immediately.

It seems rather hypocritical for Tsunade to enforce these things on Sakura if she chooses to avoid direct combat IMO.


----------



## Ryuzaki (May 10, 2016)

FlamingRain said:


> Why would it have stagnated when Tsunade became a medic? Considering Jiraiya's commentary about her accomplishments and that Tsunade demonstrated multiple offensive applications of medical Ninjutsu (alongside Tsunade's own comments during Sakura's flashbacks), it would seem to me Tsunade didn't stop engaging in combat prior to Sōzō Saisei or Byakugō.


Didn't Tsunade develop the seal (Sozo Saisei/Byakugo) after parting ways with Jiraiya and Orochimaru? That would lead me to believe that she focused more on her healing and medical ninjutsu than actual direct combat, which kind of showed in her initial battle.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 10, 2016)

I have a hard time separating Sakura's abilities from Sakura's overall curtain of failure. 



She has super strength.  This picture should never happen to someone with super strength.  Do I say Sakura is so weak she can't break Sasuke's grip, or do I say she choked?  (pun most definitely intended)  Ditto for her taijutsu skill.  She could have S tier taijutsu skills and never apply them in combat because she's Sakura.  I wouldn't know the difference.  Maybe Sakura is the best taijutsu master and teacher in a safe environment, just like she'd be the best study buddy and tutor, who fails the practical.  Except not, because Ino is dah best study buddy.  Ino wouldn't get choked by Sasuke, either.


----------



## Bonly (May 10, 2016)

To be fair PoW her strength comes from releasing chakra in one instance upon impact, otherwise she's not actually physically strong so her super strength wouldn't mean much when she's getting chocked though I'm sure Sakura like getting chocked because it was by Sasuke-Kun. Though it doesn't matter because Ino Da Best

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## FlamingRain (May 10, 2016)

Ryuzaki said:


> Didn't Tsunade develop the seal (Sozo Saisei/Byakugo) after parting ways with Jiraiya and Orochimaru? That would lead me to believe that she focused more on her healing and medical ninjutsu than actual direct combat, which kind of showed in her initial battle.



What showed in Tsunade's initial battle with Kabuto was that she was 20 years out of shape, not that she focused more on her healing and medical Ninjutsu than actual combat- Tsunade wasn't even a ninja at that point. Tsunade told Orochimaru and Kabuto to go find someone else because she had retired from the frontlines _and_ ninja medicine.


----------



## wooly Eullerex (May 11, 2016)

more skilled than kiba & less skilled than choji; not in the same zip code as asuma


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 11, 2016)

Bonly said:


> To be fair PoW her strength comes from releasing chakra in one instance upon impact, otherwise she's not actually physically strong so her super strength wouldn't mean much when she's getting chocked though I'm sure Sakura like getting chocked because it was by Sasuke-Kun. Though it doesn't matter because Ino Da Best



She could.  Like.  Swat him.  His arm would break.  If he weren't Sasuke-kun and she didn't have failure hard-wired into her dna.  But you're right Bonly.  Ino is Da Best.


----------



## Itachі (May 11, 2016)

@FlamingRain @UchihaX28 

Didn't Tsunade say that one of the rules of being a Medical Ninja was refraining from fighting on the front lines? If I recall she said that the first few rules could only be discarded upon mastery of the Yin Seal.


----------



## Alex Payne (May 11, 2016)

7-8 at War Arc. Likely 8-9 in Boruto era. Like PoW said her character makes it difficult to properly asses her skills. She spent ~2 years training under Tsunade whom I consider to be a solid 9(Taijutsu, not looks). And her feats against Sasori are quite impressive considering Sakura's sub-par physical stats at the time. Byakugo-retcon could be used to explain her bad physical feats. I don't understand why people are so focused on good taijutsu=fancy maneuvers+acrobatics. Sakura/Tsunade simply use a different style. Using chakra-enhanced strength in the midst of combat with perfect timing is a skill.

Reactions: Friendly 1


----------



## Zensuki (May 11, 2016)

Saru said:


> Sakura is much like Tsunade in that she doesn't need to use a lot of finesse (i.e. skill) for her taijutsu to be effective, but unlike Tsunade, Sakura lacks any indication of (high) taijutsu skill in the first place. Sakura's taijutsu should certainly be above average, but Sakura has no feats to suggest that her taijutsu score improved leaps and bounds from what it was in the Third Databook (a 3). So, I would say she's above average at absolute worst, and she could be even better, but if she is, she certainly hasn't shown it.



She was either fodderising jyuubi monsters or facing godlike characters so its hard to assess. Her speed notably increased.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Finalbeta (May 11, 2016)

cctr1 said:


> if we actually talk about the skills as in taijutsu skills like the hyuuga , gai , lee , then she's not skilled at all
> she's just '' hulk smash , hulk destroy '' type of fighter


This.
She is the kind of fighter that plan in crush the enemy as faster as possible
Pretty much Goku's type of fighting, which means just sometimes when needed she thinks at strategies


----------



## Megu-Nee (May 11, 2016)

I dont understand how u can say shes unskilled when theres only two people who mastered byakugou


----------



## cctr1 (May 11, 2016)

Megu-Nee said:


> I dont understand how u can say shes unskilled when theres only two people who mastered byakugou


 we're talking taijutsu skills not medical ninjutsu skills


----------



## Megu-Nee (May 11, 2016)

cctr1 said:


> we're talking taijutsu skills not medical ninjutsu skills


The technique "creation rebirth" is the pinnacle of medical ninjutsu.

The byakugou seal is the pinnacle of chakra control. it vastly improve her overall stats, making her more destructive, faster and durable in battles.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Itachі (May 11, 2016)

Megu-Nee said:


> The technique "creation rebirth" is the pinnacle of medical ninjutsu.
> 
> The byakugou seal is the pinnacle of chakra control. it vastly improve her overall stats, making her more destructive, faster and durable in battles.



Byakugo doesn't improve overall stats, it's not Sage Mode.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Megu-Nee (May 11, 2016)

Itachі said:


> Byakugo doesn't improve overall stats, it's not Sage Mode.


Maybe i phrased it wrongly, i just meant to say the seal improved her fighting capabilities

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## FlamingRain (May 11, 2016)

Itachі said:


> @FlamingRain @UchihaX28
> 
> Didn't Tsunade say that one of the rules of being a Medical Ninja was refraining from fighting on the front lines? If I recall she said that the first few rules could only be discarded upon mastery of the Yin Seal.



The point of those initial three rules of being a medical specialist is that the medical ninja remain alive as long as possible so that they can apply treatment as long as possible during a battle, those rules aren't there to simply forbid medical ninja from battling. That's why both of Tsunade's known students were taught how to fight even prior to Byakugō- the other three rules of being a medical ninja are oriented towards team battle situations.

Even in a team battle situation, though- the difference between Tsunade and a normal medical ninja is that Tsunade started out already so accomplished a fighter that it would have often been the case that Tsunade could be the ninja taking an offensive lead and yet still be the most likely of a team to remain standing once a battle was over, even before Sōzō Saisei and Byakugō were a thing. She was adulated as one of the three most powerful ninja of her era alongside Jiraiya and Orochimaru and the Sannin were not always on the same squads as shown in flashbacks, so...in many cases Tsunade going on offense would be the safest thing Tsunade could do for a team she was with.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 11, 2016)

Itachі said:


> Byakugo doesn't improve overall stats, it's not Sage Mode.



I'm pretty sure it does and kind of is.  At least as much as Orochimaru's chakra and Cursed Seal is.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 11, 2016)

FlamingRain said:


> The point of those initial three rules of being a medical specialist is that the medical ninja remain alive as long as possible so that they can apply treatment as long as possible during a battle, those rules aren't there to simply forbid medical ninja from battling. That's why both of Tsunade's known students were taught how to fight even prior to Byakugō- the other three rules of being a medical ninja are oriented towards team battle situations.
> 
> Even in a team battle situation, though- the difference between Tsunade and a normal medical ninja is that Tsunade started out already so accomplished a fighter that it would have often been the case that Tsunade could be the ninja taking an offensive lead and yet still be the most likely of a team to remain standing once a battle was over, even before Sōzō Saisei and Byakugō were a thing. She was adulated as one of the three most powerful ninja of her era alongside Jiraiya and Orochimaru and the Sannin were not always on the same squads as shown in flashbacks, so...in many cases Tsunade going on offense would be the safest thing Tsunade could do for a team she was with.



iirc the only time Tsunade was adverse to taking the initiative without Byako was in the Madara fight, when her teammates were exclusively kage and the opponent was Madara.  The other time she played medic was when when she chakra slugged the entire alliance.  Tobirama took a support role there too.  Must be a Senju thing.


----------



## Itachі (May 11, 2016)

@FlamingRain

But I'm pretty sure that one of the rules outright forbade a medical nin from 'fighting on the front line' or something like that? Correct me if I'm wrong.

@The Pirate on Wheels

Why? Byakugo itself just provides a surge of Chakra and Sozo Saisei provides the nifty feature of regeneration. It's never been stated that durability, strength, speed, etc, improves. Ninjutsu isn't inherently more powerful either, it's just that Ninjutsu has the potential to be more powerful because Tsunade/Sakura can pump more Chakra into it. If you wanna get super technical I guess speed could be improved by some sort of a super Shunshin but I even doubt that. Itachi had a damn fast Shunshin and compared to the rest of the verse his Chakra capacity was piss poor. Though I guess you could say that it's down to his Chakra control or something. The Yin Seal makes a fighter more effective in battle but I don't think it's akin to the likes of Sage Mode or Biju Mode.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 11, 2016)

Itachі said:


> @FlamingRain
> 
> But I'm pretty sure that one of the rules outright forbade a medical nin from 'fighting on the front line' or something like that? Correct me if I'm wrong.



My point was that there was a specific purpose to that rule- staying alive in order to keep others alive- and Tsunade is a case of a ninja who could continue as a combatant even considering it. With someone like Tsunade, there could be any number of situations where she would be most successful keeping a team alive by taking the initiative, and there are also such things as solo missions.

There's no good reason to think that Tsunade's fighting skills stagnated once she became a medical specialist when Tsunade herself explicitly stated that being a medical specialist wasn't an excuse for a ninja to not know how to fight.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 11, 2016)

Itachі said:


> @The Pirate on Wheels
> 
> Why? Byakugo itself just provides a surge of Chakra and Sozo Saisei provides the nifty feature of regeneration. It's never been stated that durability, strength, speed, etc, improves. Ninjutsu isn't inherently more powerful either, it's just that Ninjutsu has the potential to be more powerful because Tsunade/Sakura can pump more Chakra into it. If you wanna get super technical I guess speed could be improved by some sort of a super Shunshin but I even doubt that. Itachi had a damn fast Shunshin and compared to the rest of the verse his Chakra capacity was piss poor. Though I guess you could say that it's down to his Chakra control or something. The Yin Seal makes a fighter more effective in battle but I don't think it's akin to the likes of Sage Mode or Biju Mode.



PoW selects Good Post.
There's no PP left for that move!
PoW uses Baton Pass @FlamingRain .

Reactions: Useful 1


----------



## Mithos (May 11, 2016)

Itachі said:


> @FlamingRain @UchihaX28
> 
> Didn't Tsunade say that one of the rules of being a Medical Ninja was refraining from fighting on the front lines? If I recall she said that the first few rules could only be discarded upon mastery of the Yin Seal.



Jiraiya said she was unrivaled in medical ninjutsu _and_ combat when he was explaining to Naruto why she was the best choice to be Hokage, and that was before he knew about Souzou Saisei.

Tsunade herself also says that she's _not_ just a medical ninja. She obviously had to fight in battles to refine her skills to that point, which she had done far before gaining Souzou Saisei.


----------



## UchihaX28 (May 11, 2016)

Itachі said:


> @FlamingRain @UchihaX28
> 
> Didn't Tsunade say that one of the rules of being a Medical Ninja was refraining from fighting on the front lines? If I recall she said that the first few rules could only be discarded upon mastery of the Yin Seal.



 This is somewhat true, but you have to take into account of Tsunade's abilities. The evasive training Tsunade has received as a medic merely supplements her abilities. Her Taijutsu is ranked as 5 and she has Chakra Enhanced strength which are both only useful in CQC. Evasive training ensures that she doesn't get hit and creates openings that she normally wouldn't, but Chakra Enhanced Strength and Excellent Taijutsu are both useless if you're constantly avoiding direct combat.

 When you factor in how the refined chakra control obtained from medical ninjutsu training was likely what enabled Tsunade to use CES in the first place, it doesn't make sense for her skills to simply stagnate once she became a medic.


----------



## UchihaX28 (May 11, 2016)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I'm pretty sure it does and kind of is.  At least as much as Orochimaru's chakra and Cursed Seal is.


 
 It does.

 CS improves the user's stats significantly by forcing the body to draw out more chakra. Byakugou does the same by pumping more of the user's chakra throughout their body by using the Yin Seal, so being able to naturally release more chakra leads to greater physicality and even moreso when she has enhanced Chakra Control because of it.

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## Ryuzaki (May 11, 2016)

FlamingRain said:


> What showed in Tsunade's initial battle with Kabuto was that she was 20 years out of shape, not that she focused more on her healing and medical Ninjutsu than actual combat- Tsunade wasn't even a ninja at that point. Tsunade told Orochimaru and Kabuto to go find someone else because she had retired from the frontlines _and_ ninja medicine.


That ninja medicine part was a lie because she didn't want to because if she did retire then how does she come up with a brand new jutsu 5 chapters later?


----------



## FlamingRain (May 12, 2016)

Ryuzaki said:


> That ninja medicine part was a lie because she didn't want to because if she did retire then how does she come up with a brand new jutsu 5 chapters later?



That Tsunade came up with a brand new Jutsu five chapters later is a lie.

Tsunade developed Sōzō Saisei _years ago_, i.e.- _before_ she quit with the whole ninja thing. That Tsunade would remember she had it says nothing about her actively focusing on it or general medicine in the years between where she left Konoha and where Jiraiya met up with her again.


----------



## UchihaX28 (May 12, 2016)

FlamingRain said:


> That Tsunade came up with a brand new Jutsu five chapters later is a lie.
> 
> Tsunade developed Sōzō Saisei _years ago_, i.e.- _before_ she quit with the whole ninja thing.



 Is there a statement that shows when exactly she quit being a whole "ninja"? That would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Bringer (May 12, 2016)

@Itachi

In Turrin's translation of Byakogou, there was a vague translation of the users power rising.



> Byakogou Sousou Saisei
> 
> For several years using the highest most precise chakra control, a fixed amount is stored in the Byakugou seal. The chakra is usually put to use to regenerate the body through the Ninjutsu technique "Sousou Saisei", the combination results in the ultimate regeneration Jutsu.
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## FlamingRain (May 12, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Is there a statement that shows when exactly she quit being a whole "ninja"? That would be greatly appreciated.



I'm pretty sure it wasn't explicitly stated in the manga that "Tsunade retired x years ago", if that's what you're asking about, but the information one would need to figure out that it was several years ago is already there anyway.


----------



## UchihaX28 (May 12, 2016)

FlamingRain said:


> I'm pretty sure it wasn't explicitly stated in the manga that "Tsunade retired x years ago", if that's what you're asking about, but the information one would need to figure out that it was several years ago is already there anyway.



 I see ... I'll guess I'll reread that part of the manga and look for it then.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 12, 2016)

Itachі said:


> @The Pirate on Wheels
> 
> Why? Byakugo itself just provides a surge of Chakra and Sozo Saisei provides the nifty feature of regeneration. It's never been stated that durability, strength, speed, etc, improves. Ninjutsu isn't inherently more powerful either, it's just that Ninjutsu has the potential to be more powerful because Tsunade/Sakura can pump more Chakra into it. If you wanna get super technical I guess speed could be improved by some sort of a super Shunshin but I even doubt that. Itachi had a damn fast Shunshin and compared to the rest of the verse his Chakra capacity was piss poor. Though I guess you could say that it's down to his Chakra control or something. The Yin Seal makes a fighter more effective in battle but I don't think it's akin to the likes of Sage Mode or Biju Mode.





UchihaX28 said:


> It does.
> 
> CS improves the user's stats significantly by forcing the body to draw out more chakra. Byakugou does the same by pumping more of the user's chakra throughout their body by using the Yin Seal, so being able to naturally release more chakra leads to greater physicality and even moreso when she has enhanced Chakra Control because of it.



Nah, it's different than that.  

In story, Tsunade had the same problem Orochimaru did mastering sage mode.  She didn't have enough total chakra to use sage mode, one of the requirements, and her Yin seal was to overcome that weakness.  Which again, once mastered, allowed her to use Hashirama's jutsu. The only difference is, Tsunade doesn't have Mokuton, so she can only use his medical techniques and regeneration.

Slugs are one of the sage summons, and use natural energy from the Humid Bone Forest.  Tsunade's chakra is not just compatible, but linked to Katsuya, to the point where it's impossible to use her without Yin seal chakra or sage mode.  So Byako chakra is definitely closer to natural energy than just a ton of chakra.  Hashirama's healing is also sage art based, and we know that because Madara didn't get access to it until after absorbing Hashirama's energy.  Since Granpappy Grandpa and Granddaughter Grandma have the same jutsu, and both involve crazy tattoos like every other sage related thing, and enhanced jutsu get a pre-fix just like sage arts, the mass proliferation of cells, and well, you get the picture.

I don't think Kishi got the chance to flesh it out, seeing as he had to shove in an info-dump style explanation of Katsuya in-between arcs, and cut out Tsunade's other fights.  Just like Cursed Seals and Orochimaru's chakra was relegated to Kabuto's pre-fight laundry list of self-hype.  If I use one more hyphen I'm going to puke.


----------



## Skaddix (May 12, 2016)

Think that is speculation nothing to suggest Tsunade is lacking in chakra pool size for Sage Mode.


----------



## Megu-Nee (May 12, 2016)

^does all sage mode requires large chakra pools? it's an requirement for frog, not sure about snake, but slug is never explained, so i'm inclined to think that not all sage modes requirements are same.


----------



## UchihaX28 (May 12, 2016)

Megu-Nee said:


> ^does all sage mode requires large chakra pools? it's an requirement for frog, not sure about snake, but slug is never explained, so i'm inclined to think that not all sage modes requirements are same.



 Likely. It's stated that Large Reserves is what enables people to draw in Natural Energy which I'm assuming is what enables someone to have resistance against Natural Energy as was the case with Orochimaru.

 Who knows though. Just my assumption.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 12, 2016)

I think the requirements are the same, but vary within their parameters, the same way the negatives for failing to control sage energy were all different kinds of bad.  Frog statue vs berzerker beast vs rapid aging/exploding into a tree.  

Tsunade has large reserves.  She just doesn't have Hashirama sized reserves for slug sage mode.  The only sage we saw from that line was Hashirama.  Even Tobirama wasn't a sage, and he had a full Senju body, was a genius, and had enough chakra to break walls with his sensing.  Needing more chakra for that mode makes sense, since unlike the other ones, the techniques focus on creating life.  I. E. many of Hashirama's mokuton jutsu come from him multiplying his own cells and converting them into wood, or injecting his life force into roots and seeds to create and proliferate life.  Medical jutsu were also stated to be quite taxing by jutsu standards in part one, by Tsunade.

Orochimaru lacked a strong enough body to handle snake sage mode.  So he sought out stronger bodies.

Jiraiya lacked the perfect control needed to sustain toad sage mode unassisted.  So he fused with the frog elders.

Tsunade didn't have Hashirama's reserves.  So she banked up chakra.

All three of the Sannin were imperfect sages, but still had their own sage summon related super mode, as stated by Pain.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## IzayaOrihara (May 12, 2016)

Im not gonna say 10/10 because im trying to separate her strength form her skill. People like Kabuto & Kimimaro (8), Tsunade (9), Gai Lee Raikage Killer Bee etc (10) have more skill so ill put Sakura at 7. Definitely above the average.


----------



## Matty (May 12, 2016)

She's good. Nothing crazy like Gai but her strength is ridic. If we are judging by base taijutsu skills though I can list a bunch of people on her level or above


----------



## Ryuzaki (May 12, 2016)

FlamingRain said:


> That Tsunade came up with a brand new Jutsu five chapters later is a lie.
> 
> Tsunade developed Sōzō Saisei *years ago, i.e.- before she quit with the whole ninja thing.* That Tsunade would remember she had it says nothing about her actively focusing on it or general medicine in the years between where she left Konoha and where Jiraiya met up with her again.


I know I was rebutting in a sarcastic manner. Hence the.. 

So do you have proof of the bold? Because Orochimaru was seeing it for the first time and he was her teammate.


----------



## UchihaX28 (May 12, 2016)

Ryuzaki said:


> I know I was rebutting in a sarcastic manner. Hence the..
> 
> So do you have proof of the bold? Because Orochimaru was seeing it for the first time and he was her teammate.



 Only thing we have is Jiraiya having a picture of Young Tsunade with the Yin Seal.


----------



## $Kakashi$ (May 12, 2016)

cctr1 said:


> if we actually talk about the skills as in taijutsu skills like the hyuuga , gai , lee , then she's not skilled at all
> she's just '' hulk smash , hulk destroy '' type of fighter



 this is true. She lacks finesse but makes up for it with unholy levels of physical strength.


----------



## UchihaX28 (May 12, 2016)

$Kakashi$ said:


> this is true. She lacks finesse but makes up for it with unholy levels of physical strength.



 Not really.

 On her debut, Tsunade displayed finesse when she evaded Naruto's attacks before pummeling him straight into the ground. Hell, her Taijutsu stat is a 5 which alone suggests it.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 13, 2016)

Ryuzaki said:


> I know I was rebutting in a sarcastic manner. Hence the..



Gotta be careful with you sometimes... 



> So do you have proof of the bold? Because Orochimaru was seeing it for the first time and he was her teammate.



Squads shift from time to time, and solo missions are a thing as well. Tsunade said that she had stored Chakra in a space behind her forehead for years, which would mean she came up with the Jutsu years ago, not recently. Jiraiya had not seen Tsunade in years, but he had a picture of a younger Tsunade where she had that diamond. Tsunade simply developed the Jutsus late enough that none of the other ninja in Konoha had found out about it before she left, which was a while ago because Tsunade remembered Shikaku as a kid and Shikaku was 38 years old by Part 1.

Most likely Tsunade tried teaching Sōzō Saisei to Shizune because Shizune was Dan's niece, but when Shizune wasn't able to perform the technique Tsunade stopped caring about the Jutsu, which would help explain the enormous discrepancy between Tsunade's stored Chakra in Part 1 compared to her stored Chakra in Part 2.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## Alex Payne (May 13, 2016)

Err... Didn't Orochimaru say "so I am not the only one who developed new jutsu" after seeing Sozo Saisei. Implying it was similar to things he created _after_ leaving the village.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 13, 2016)

It's possible she developed the Yin Seal while in Konoha, and Sozo Sozai after retirement.  They are separate jutsu.  She definitely used Katsuya a lot, and that requires the Yin Seal.  In fact that's probably what she did.


----------



## UchihaX28 (May 13, 2016)

Alex Payne said:


> Err... Didn't Orochimaru say "so I am not the only one who developed new jutsu" after seeing Sozo Saisei. Implying it was similar to things he created _after_ leaving the village.



 Then there's the implication that she learned it prior to that as she had the Yin Seal before she left the village, hence why Jiraiya had a picture of her with the Yin Seal. Then again, I guess that only means that Tsunade merely developed Sozo Saisei some time after obtaining the Yin Seal.

 Not exactly sure though because clearly, FlamingRain is more knowledgeable than I am on this subject.


----------



## Alex Payne (May 13, 2016)

Or Kishi just messed up his timelines again.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## FlamingRain (May 13, 2016)

Alex Payne said:


> Err... Didn't Orochimaru say "so I am not the only one who developed new jutsu" after seeing Sozo Saisei. Implying it was similar to things he created _after_ leaving the village.



Orochimaru started developing new Jutsu while in Konoha...Hiruzen caught Orochimaru in the middle of it.


----------



## Alex Payne (May 13, 2016)

But he didn't finish it. I mean - Tsunade left shortly after the War. When Sannin/people of that age and position constantly working on new jutsu isn't anything unusual. I doubt Oro would point out something as obvious as people trying to improve themselves at ~30/post War when village is weakened. But Tsunade at her advanced age who is also retired creating S-Ranked trump card is worth commenting upon.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 13, 2016)

Tsunade didn't finish hers either at that point, though. Tsunade finished it after she came out of retirement- Tsunade went further beyond Infūin: Kai with Byakugō no Jutsu.

It was worth commenting upon because of how advanced a Jutsu it was, Sōzō Saisei trumps any of Tsunade's other medical Ninjutsu. If Tsunade had developed that Jutsu and left Konoha before Orochimaru was ever informed about it, you would expect that sort of reaction from Orochimaru- Tsunade had developed that Jutsu since the last time she and Orochimaru were working together.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 13, 2016)

The only thing odd about the timeline is that Tsunade made the rules for medics with Byako in mind, long before she ever had it.

But then again it just means she had the idea for it in mind from a very young age, and believed it was attainable, and that's not strange since she was inspired by her grandfather.


----------

