# Raikiri vs Chidori.



## Android (Aug 24, 2020)

So i noticed that few posters think Raikiri is superior to the Chidori despite evidence from the manga suggesting otherwise.

The DB lists the Raikiri as an S-rank jutsu, but techniques do get stronger over time due to increase in skills, chakra potency ... etc 

Chidori was never implied to be weaker than Raikiri by any statements in the manga, nor by feats. So who wins the clash?

Round 01: BOS Sasuke's Chidori vs BOS Kakashi's Raikiri (no CS boost)

Round 02: MS Sasuke's Chidori vs FKS Kakashi's Raikiri

Round 03: EMS Sasuke's Chidori vs WA Kakashi's Raikiri


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## Kisame (Aug 24, 2020)

Chidori and Raikiri are the same jutsu, when Sasuke learned Chidori it was referred to as that because he hadn't mastered it as much as Kakashi did (with him being a Chunin and all) but by BoS Sasuke's is equal if not better.

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## wooly Eullerex (Aug 24, 2020)

Chidori and Raikiri are the same jutsu, when Sasuke learned Chidori it was referred to as that because he isn't  Kakashi Hatake (who gained fame as the creator) but by BoS Sasuke's is equal if not better.

Reactions: Like 4


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## cry77 (Aug 24, 2020)

You answered your own question. Skill of 2 specific users cannot be used to gauge 2 different techniques fairly. That's like saying Chidori>Rasengan because Sasuke has more skill than Konohamaru. It's not fair.

It appears to me:

Chidori ~ Rasengan 
Raikiri ~ Oodama Rasengan 

As such, Raikiri is an upgraded version of Chidori and, in a neutral comparison between 2 equally skilled users, is relatively superior although they are the same fundamental technique.

It makes no sense for Kakashi to give it a new name (he started with Chidori as well) if it wasnt naturally more potent.

Same as Fireball jutsu and Great Fireball jutsu are fundamentally the same, with the latter being scaled up.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Siskebabas (Aug 24, 2020)

Same jutsus, before muh s rank arguments come, nukite is B rank and we all know nukite shits on Raikiri by feats and by hype

Reactions: Like 2


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## Soldierofficial (Aug 24, 2020)

They are the same jutsu.

Sasuke wins since he was stronger than Kakashi.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Subtle (Aug 24, 2020)

Raikiri and Chidori are the same jutsu, the only thing that makes one better than the other is the skill of the user who is utilising the jutsu.

By BoS Sasuke should rival Kakashi if not better as Sasuke is much more experienced.

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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

I don't understand why some people are so dense.

Kakashi possesses the , which is both similar to and different from Sasuke's A-Rank Chidori - similar in jutsu mechanics, different in power (hence the separate ranking). It's quite telling that Kakashi's variant of the jutsu is not only of a superior rank to the regular Chidori _but also has the highest rank possible _- a rank only bequeathed to a select few other jutsu, such as *Impure World Resurrection*, the *Wind Style: Rasenshuriken*, Tsunade's *Creation Rebirth*, and _Kirin_. That should tell anyone this jutsu is extremely powerful and offensively - _all other things equal_ (this is the part people don't get). Kakashi's Lightning Blade would be stronger than regular P2 Sasuke's Chidori, but someone like Sasuke using the Sage Seal or Hagoromo's Yin Seal would be a different story due to their superior chakra quantity or quality. This is also why *Kakuzu's B-Rank Lightning Style: False Darkness can match Lightning Blade - because the chakra amount is the same*. It shouldn't be so complicated.

While Ay was able to, he won't be surviving the Lightning Blade at all. The Lightning Transmission, which is basically two Lightning Blade attacks condensed into a chain for superior reach,  and . For comparison's sake, said Statue was able to block an ultra-super-sized Butterfly Chouji's Butterfly Bomb. Oh, and @Soldierofficial is being a creep again.



Siskebabas said:


> Same jutsus, before muh s rank arguments come, nukite is B rank and we all know nukite shits on Raikiri by feats and by hype



This is a weird argument, considering that the obvious answer as to why Nukite shits on the Lightning Blade is that the guy using it is the Third fucking Raikage, who has massive levels of chakra (_Tailed Beast level_) that he can pump into the technique - and is incredibly strong outside of that anyhow, which further amplifies the attacking force. In both regards, A3 shits on Kakashi.

If A3 had the Lightning Blade, he'd do more damage with it than with the Nukite.

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## Siskebabas (Aug 24, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> This is a weird argument, considering that the obvious answer as to why Nukite shits on the Lightning Blade is that the guy using it is the Third fucking Raikage, who has massive levels of chakra (_Tailed Beast level_) that he can pump into the technique - and is incredibly strong outside of that anyhow, which further amplifies the attacking force. In both regards, A3 shits on Kakashi.
> 
> If A3 had the Lightning Blade, he'd do more damage with it than with the Nukite.


Baseless, nukite is straight up superior technique to Raikiri and Sasuke is straight up superior raiton user to kakashi yet both use same shit. And what supports your argument that nukite is that chakra taxing and not just superior mechanically?


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## LawdyLawd (Aug 24, 2020)

Raikiri is just the name gifted to Chidori when Kakashi honed it enough to cut real lightning. 

so skill is the obvious difference, Sasuke from the start of shippuden has 100% honed it as good or even greater than Kakashi. But for obvious reasons, he rather not refer to it as Raikiri. He even corrected Deidara about it. It’s that serious for him.


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## Reviewing Logic (Aug 24, 2020)

Just a rebranding of the same jutsu.

Kakashi pushed it higher and cut lightning with it and thus people (not Kakashi himself) gave it a new name.

He made his chidori reach a new level in terms of power. A power that eventually Sasuke would beat with his own chidori power output.

In the beginning Kakashi's Raikiri > Chidori since Sasuke's Chidori was obviously weaker.

Now Sasuke's Chidori > Part 1/2 Kakashi's Raikiri.

Sasuke didn't get a rename when he started making a more and more stronger chidori due to himself becoming stronger.

Like Rasengan, said jutsu scales with how said character also evolves in terms of power and output of said power.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 24, 2020)

They’re equatable, as was Chidori Kusanagi to Bee’s Vibrato Blade

It’s just lightning streaming, really wasn’t a need to name them as Jutsu to begin with, same thing pertains to Flying Swallow as well, that didn’t require a name - it’s just wind streaming

Ei3’s Nukite at B-rank shits on all the other lightning streamers though


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Baseless, nukite is straight up superior technique to Raikiri



Based on what evidence? 



Siskebabas said:


> and Sasuke is straight up superior raiton user to kakashi



Based on what evidence?



Siskebabas said:


> yet both use same shit



Um, no, they don't? Sasuke himself said his technique's different.



Siskebabas said:


> And what supports your argument that nukite is that chakra taxing and not just superior mechanically?



Not once have I ever stated that Nukite is ''chakra taxing''. Don't put words in my mouth. My argument is that Nukite might be stronger because the guy using it is physically stronger and can pump more chakra into it than Kakashi can.

Also, Kishimoto himself gave Nukite an inferior rank and Kishimoto's words > yours, so...


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## Danisor (Aug 24, 2020)

Raikiri is S-rank, Chidori is A-rank.
_The Lightning Cutter is an enhanced and concentrated form of the Chidori._


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## wooly Eullerex (Aug 24, 2020)

> _'Lightning-cutter'_ *VS*  '_1,000 birds'_





Danisor said:


> Raikiri is S-rank, Chidori is A-rank.
> _The Lightning Cutter is an enhanced and concentrated form of the Chidori._


it most certainly is not ''enhanced'' and chidori is already max concentrated - thats why it sounds like chirping birds

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## Danisor (Aug 24, 2020)

wooly Eullerex said:


> it most certainly is not ''enhanced'' and chidori is already max concentrated - thats why it sounds like chirping birds


But Raikiri is cooler


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## Android (Aug 24, 2020)

Danisor said:


> is cooler


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## Danisor (Aug 24, 2020)




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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

321ice said:


> so skill is the obvious difference, Sasuke from the start of shippuden has 100% honed it as good or even greater than Kakashi. But for obvious reasons, he rather not refer to it as Raikiri. He even corrected Deidara about it. It’s that serious for him.



Proof Sasuke honed Chidori ''as good or even greater than Kakashi'' when it has inferior feats? What are these ''obvious reasons''? Sasuke isn't so prideful that he won't call a technique by its proper name - Kakashi DID create Chidori before he created the Lightning Blade.



Char Aznable said:


> Just a rebranding of the same jutsu.
> 
> Kakashi pushed it higher and cut lightning with it and thus people (not Kakashi himself) gave it a new name.
> 
> ...



A few issues with this. Kakashi himself also calls the Lightning Blade the Lightning Blade, there's no proof Sasuke's Chidori matched Kakashi's Lightning Blade in power, and there's no proof Sasuke wouldn't rename his jutsu accordingly (he literally named all of his Chidori variants).


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## Siskebabas (Aug 24, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Based on what evidence?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Based on manga, its hyped as ultimate spear and busted stronger defenses then kakashi ever did, you havent posted anything close to proving Raikiri being anywhere near nukite in terms of potency. 
Sasuke mastered lighting itself, which puts any kakshis raitons to shame. And its not "might" stronger its just plainly stronger and way stronger


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Based on manga, its hyped as ultimate spear and busted stronger defenses then kakashi ever did



Um, you do realize that's because the *Third Raikage* is the one using it, right? Someone physically _stronger_ than Kakashi with more chakra? How many fucking times do I have to say the same shit over and over again? Right here you've earned a neg.



Siskebabas said:


> you havent posted anything close to proving Raikiri being anywhere near nukite in terms of potency



I mean, the Databook's good enough. The Lightning Blade is a S-Rank jutsu and Nukite isn't.

Therefore, all other things equal, Lightning Blade > Nukite. The Third Raikage is an exception to this rule as he > Kakashi in every physical stat. Why didn't you engage with any of the points I brought up btw?



Siskebabas said:


> Sasuke mastered lighting itself, which puts any kakshis raitons to shame. And its not "might" stronger its just plainly stronger and way stronger



Cool. We're not discussing Kirin, we're discussing Chidori versus Lightning Blade.

Also, Kirin is natural electricity (not chakra electricity which is weaker), so your point fails either way.


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## MaruUchiha (Aug 24, 2020)

A rank vs S rank? Toughie


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

MaruUchiha said:


> A rank vs S rank? Toughie



IKR? People go ''but Nukite'' but they don't understand why the Third Raikage could do more damage with a ''weaker'' technique. This is literally why V2 Ay's Body Flicker is such a big deal in spite of the Body Flicker being an E-Rank jutsu.


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## Siskebabas (Aug 24, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Um, you do realize that's because the *Third Raikage* is the one using it, right? Someone physically _stronger_ than Kakashi with more chakra? How many fucking times do I have to say the same shit over and over again? Right here you've earned a neg.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you're getting mad boy. Because you bring garbage points, with fannon arguments that he pumps more chakra or he is stronger which has nothing do to with it, when technique is plainly superior. Thats literally dumb argument, if you take out massive ammount of chakra then Raikiri would be equal to futon rasen shuriken, see hows that sounds?


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## Soldierofficial (Aug 24, 2020)

Stop talking to yourself, Maru.


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## MaruUchiha (Aug 24, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> IKR? People go ''but Nukite'' but they don't understand why the Third Raikage could do more damage with a ''weaker'' technique. This is literally why V2 Ay's Body Flicker is such a big deal in spite of the Body Flicker being an E-Rank jutsu.


Siskebabas is also leaving out it's only 5 Finger Hell Stab that's B rank. Hell Stab didn't even start outperforming Raikiri until 3 fingers iirc


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## deltaniner (Aug 24, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> This is a weird argument, considering that the obvious answer as to why Nukite shits on the Lightning Blade is that the guy using it is the Third fucking Raikage, who has massive levels of chakra (_Tailed Beast level_) that he can pump into the technique - and is incredibly strong outside of that anyhow, which further amplifies the attacking force. In both regards, A3 shits on Kakashi.


You'd have a point, _if it weren't for the fact that A3 *is the only person in the entire fucking series to use nukite.*_


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> you're getting mad boy



Yes, excuse me for being infuriated you're not getting something so simple.



Siskebabas said:


> Because you bring garbage points, with fannon arguments that he pumps more chakra or he is stronger which has nothing do to with it, when technique is plainly superior



Kishimoto gave Lightning Blade a superior rank to Nukite (S vs B), so the technique is plainly_ inferior_ as per canon.

Common sense dictates that if Nukite doesn't outperform the Lightning Blade _because it's superior_, there_ must be a different reason_ for Nukite outperforming the Lightning Blade. Now, what kind of reason would make sense? We know A3 has superior strength and chakra to Kakashi. We know that A4 is able to turn a D or similarly low-ranked technique (Body Flicker Jutsu) into something monstrous because of his immense chakra levels. A3 and A4 are comparable in stamina and strength. Therefore, it is safe to conclude A3's Nukite is stronger than an otherwise superior technique because _the person using it is superior to the person using the Lightning Blade_. If you play Pokemon or any similar RPG, you'd know it's possible for a technique with a lower base power to surpass one with a higher base power if the Pokemon using the former surpasses the one using it the latter.



Siskebabas said:


> Thats literally dumb argument, if you take out massive ammount of chakra then Raikiri would be equal to futon rasen shuriken, see hows that sounds?



I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here.


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## Android (Aug 24, 2020)

I see Jon Snow still giving Raiden feats to Raikiri.

L-O-L.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

deltaniner said:


> You'd have a point, _if it weren't for the fact that A3 *is the only person in the entire fucking series to use nukite.*_



And Kakashi is the only person in the entire series to use the Lightning Blade...your point?

Doesn't change the fact that the Lightning Blade is a superior technique in the hands of an inferior user.



Hellraiser said:


> I see Jon Snow still giving Raiden feats to Raikiri.
> 
> L-O-L.



Lightning Chain IS Lightning Blade, just elongated for greater reach.

There's no difference in power (or if there is, it's minimal).


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## Android (Aug 24, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> And Kakashi is the only person in the entire series to use the Lightning Blade...your point?
> 
> Doesn't change the fact that the Lightning Blade is a superior technique in the hands of an inferior user.
> 
> ...


No bruh. Raiden ripped through Bijuu shrouds like a hot knife through butter.

Raikiri bounced off the same Bijuu chakra.

And since you have trouble grasping what's happening on the panel, let me help you
8:47


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 24, 2020)

Hellraiser said:


> Round 01: BOS Sasuke's Chidori vs BOS Kakashi's Raikiri (no CS boost)


In my opinion...

*BOS Kakashi's Raikiri >> BOS base Sasuke's Chidori*

IA Kakashi (not far from BOS)





BOS–Hebi base Sasuke







Hellraiser said:


> Round 02: MS Sasuke's Chidori vs FKS Kakashi's Raikiri


*FKS Sasuke's Chidori >= FKS Kakashi's Raikiri*

FKS Sasuke's Chidori





Early WA Kakashi (presumably not far from FKS)





Hellraiser said:


> Round 03: EMS Sasuke's Chidori vs WA Kakashi's Raikiri


*WA Kakashi's Raikiri >= EMS Sasuke's Chidori*

MS Sasuke's Chidori with hand seals (presumably not far from EMS)



WA Kakashi's Raikiri with hand seals (don't know about latter when fatigued)


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

Hellraiser said:


> No bruh. Raiden ripped through Bijuu shrouds like a hot knife through butter.
> 
> Raikiri bounced off the same Bijuu chakra



Kakashi didn't even make contact when he was using the Lightning Blade, dawg. At least, it's not clear if he did...

@MShadows @Turrin Sorry for tagging you guys yet again, but do you know if Kakashi made contact based on the SFX involved?



Hellraiser said:


> And since you have trouble grasping what's happening on the panel, let me help you
> 8:47



Why are you bringing up the anime?


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## Isaiah13000 (Aug 24, 2020)

Raikiri and Chidori are literally the same thing as repeatedly stated in both the manga and databooks, Kakashi's Raikiri having an S-rank is either an error or due to Kakashi's usage being better than Sasuke's was at the time since Kakashi was still stronger than Sasuke was in Part 1. But by the time of Part 2 Sasuke is portrayed above Kakashi consistently, so there is no difference between them at hat point.


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## MShadows (Aug 24, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Kakashi didn't even make contact when he was using the Lightning Blade, dawg. At least, it's not clear if he did...
> 
> @MShadows @Turrin Sorry for tagging you guys yet again, but do you know if Kakashi made contact based on the SFX involved?
> 
> ...


Raikiri couldn't pierce the V2 chakra shroud. 

Which is kind of weird because Raiden sliced through it with no problems. Guess attacking speed combined with better shape manipulation came at play here.

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## Isaiah13000 (Aug 24, 2020)

*Spoiler*: __ 



*Link Removed*




*Spoiler*: __ 




*Chidori (One Thousand Birds)*

Ninjutsu, A-rank, Offensive, Close-range
User: Uchiha Sasuke
*That chirping penetrates even the most tenacious rocks.*

By activating the body, a great amount of chakra is brought forth and concentrated into one arm. Furthermore, by running a long distance, this turns into a high-speed stab of destructive power!! The movement is a mere stab, but this great technique boasts such large power that it was able to open a hole in Gaara’s sand defence.

The released chakra gives off a ‘chicchicchi’ noise which can be compared to birds’ voices.

*When Kakashi uses it, Chidori is known as Raikiri.*


 

*Spoiler*: __ 




*Raikiri (Lightning Cutter)*

Ninjutsu, S-rank, Offensive, Close-range
User: Hatake Kakashi
*In one swing, this swift stab turns into a famous blade that can even cut lightning!!*

The one who is said to have copied over 1000 jutsu, Kakashi’s single original technique, this is Raikiri! Guy says that the true nature of this technique is a regular stab, but the amazing time when you see this huge amount of chakra is gathered in the hand, Kakashi’s arm becomes a famous blade that can cut through anything.

Kakashi, named Konoha’s greatest technician, created this ultimate secret art himself. It is really a simple technique perfected by honing it to the limit, an artisan’s technique.

Ending in a single point, this huge amount of chakra is a wonder even to the eyes of the enemy!! It predicts a hopeless future.

*Kakashi’s Chidori cut lightning… that legend is the origin of the name Raikiri.*



It is very clearly the exact same thing, the rank difference is either an error or because Kakashi's was better at the time. Its quite simple, they are the same.

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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

MShadows said:


> Raikiri couldn't pierce the V2 chakra shroud.
> 
> Which is kind of weird because Raiden sliced through it with no problems. Guess attacking speed combined with better shape manipulation came at play here.



Ah shit lol. Looks like Lightning Chain really _is_ stronger. I stand corrected. I still maintain Lightning Blade > Chidori though lol. Sasuke and Naruto both treat Lightning Blade as a distinct jutsu from Chidori. 

@Hellraiser

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## Bonly (Aug 24, 2020)

Sasuke's Chidori should be on par with Kakashi's Raikiri as of his Hebi days with the CS giving him the boost for his Chidori to be a bit stronger then MS and up should have a stronger jutsu. Raikiri might be the stronger jutsu if two people in equal abilities used it but with Sasuke being stronger then Kakashi with better chakra enhancing his abilities his Chidori should be on par and/or stronger.


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## Serene Grace (Aug 24, 2020)

The difference in rank only indicates the difficulty of performing the jutsu, it doesn’t indicate whether a jutsu is stronger or not


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

Bonly said:


> Sasuke's Chidori should be on par with Kakashi's Raikiri as of his Hebi days with the CS giving him the boost for his Chidori to be a bit stronger then MS and up should have a stronger jutsu. Raikiri might be the stronger jutsu if two people in equal abilities used it but with Sasuke being stronger then Kakashi with better chakra enhancing his abilities his Chidori should be on par and/or stronger.





The weird thing is, you've gotten it entirely backwards. When Sasuke had the Sage Seal, he could have likelyKakashi's Lightning Blade using his Chidori. After he lost it and gained the Mangekyo Sharingan, his Chidori stayed the same.

There's no proof Sasuke's Chidori got stronger after he gained the MS -. Naruto countered it using a regular non-KI Rasengan.



Serene Grace said:


> The difference in rank only indicates the difficulty of performing the jutsu, it doesn’t indicate whether a jutsu is stronger or not



Headcanon. Ranks are associated with power as well - literally every other S-Class jutsu is some sort of broken and Akatsuki was so hyped as it was an organization of S-Class ninja.

And why do you think Lightning Blade is more difficult to perform than Chidori...?


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 24, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Kakashi didn't even make contact when he was using the Lightning Blade, dawg. At least, it's not clear if he did...





MShadows said:


> Raikiri couldn't pierce the V2 chakra shroud.
> 
> Which is kind of weird because Raiden sliced through it with no problems. Guess attacking speed combined with better shape manipulation came at play here.


I think it's pretty clear all four counter-blitz strikes made contact.



It looks like Kakashi hit Three-Tails behind/near its head, which would make sense it was right in the middle of his lane.

It looks like he inflicted damage, likely chopping off one of its spiky parts. This makes sense since a relatively thin line of his Raiton chakra carved through their V2 Chakra Arms like butter, and he continued using Raikiri.

​
The damage is in roughly the exact same spot that his Raikiri would have sliced given its direction.


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## Tri (Aug 24, 2020)

They're the same thing.


Hellraiser said:


> Round 01: BOS Sasuke's Chidori vs BOS Kakashi's Raikiri (no CS boost)


Sasuke


Hellraiser said:


> ound 02: MS Sasuke's Chidori vs FKS Kakashi's Raikiri


Sasuke


Hellraiser said:


> EMS Sasuke's Chidori vs WA Kakashi's Raikiri


lol

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## wooly Eullerex (Aug 24, 2020)




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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

Tri said:


> They're the same thing



Not according to Naruto or Sasuke, nor the Databook where both are mentioned and ranked separately for that matter.



Tri said:


> Sasuke
> 
> Sasuke
> 
> lol



That's kinda hypocritical, don't you think?



Mad Scientist said:


> I think it's pretty clear all four counter-blitz strikes made contact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting.


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## MShadows (Aug 24, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I think it's pretty clear all four counter-blitz strikes made contact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm looking at the picture and I really can't tell where the damage has been done.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

MShadows said:


> I'm looking at the picture and I really can't tell where the damage has been done.



Yeah, tbh I'm confused as well. I'm not sure where some of the pictures are from either.


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## Tri (Aug 24, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Not according to Naruto or Sasuke, nor the Databook where both are mentioned and ranked separately for that matter.


Not according to the manga where they're referred to as literally the same thing.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> That's kinda hypocritical, don't you think?


Not at all.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

Tri said:


> Not according to the manga where they're referred to as literally the same thing



Naruto and Sasuke are part of the manga and the Databook is written by the guy who wrote the manga, so...



Tri said:


> Not at all.



So on what grounds do you say Sasuke's Chidori is stronger (in spite of claiming both techniques are equal)?


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 24, 2020)

MShadows said:


> I'm looking at the picture and I really can't tell where the damage has been done.


It's above the red line, near its head. There appear to be circles rather than lines, and it looks off. This is inconsistent with previous images of the Three-Tails and even other V2 jinchuriki, and is in the same area Kakashi seems to have attacked. The reason it didn't fully pierce through is because the V2 jinchuriki are really fast; the Three-Tails' head dodged the attack, and Six-Tails dodged a Raikiri entirely, so only a part of the chakra was scraped off.


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## Tri (Aug 24, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Naruto and Sasuke are part of the manga and the Databook is written by the guy who wrote the manga, so...


The databook is a secondary source to the manga and I'm also pretty sure even the databook cites Raikiri as chidori. Show me the panels where they explicitly say they're different jutsu.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> So on what grounds do you say Sasuke's Chidori is stronger (in spite of claiming both techniques are equal)?


I'm sure you can put two and two together and figure out if the techniques are the same the stronger individual would have the stronger technique.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

Tri said:


> The databook is a secondary source to the manga and I'm also pretty sure even the databook cites Raikiri as chidori. Show me the panels where they explicitly say they're different jutsu



Happy to.  and  do it, as .



Tri said:


> I'm sure you can put two and two together and figure out if the techniques are the same the stronger individual would have the stronger technique.



Um, it doesn't work like that. 

That's like saying Minato has a stronger Rasengan than P1 KN1 Naruto lmao.


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## Tri (Aug 24, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Happy to.  and  do it, as .


Neither of these are distinguishing them as different jutsu especially Sasuke's where he says "technically" as "technically" Kakashi's Chidori is called Raikiri due to the story behind what he did.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Um, it doesn't work like that.
> 
> That's like saying Minato has a stronger Rasengan than P1 KN1 Naruto lmao.


You can't be serious.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

Tri said:


> Neither of these are distinguishing them as different jutsu



Um, yes...they are? Sasuke and Naruto outright distinguish the two. The Databook has two separate entries with two separate ranks. Are you for real?



Tri said:


> You can't be serious.



Oh, I am. 

Do you seriously think otherwise? That's weird.


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## cry77 (Aug 24, 2020)

Are Rasengan and Oodama Rasengan the same technique too? 

Are Fireball Jutsu and Great Fireball Jutsu the same technique too? 

Are Waterfall Jutsu and Great Waterfall Jutsu the same technique too?

Are all Summoning Jutsu the same techniques too?


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 24, 2020)

cry77 said:


> Are Rasengan and Oodama Rasengan the same technique too?
> 
> Are Fireball Jutsu and Great Fireball Jutsu the same technique too?
> 
> ...



Hit the nail on the head.


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## Turrin (Aug 25, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Kakashi didn't even make contact when he was using the Lightning Blade, dawg. At least, it's not clear if he did...
> 
> @MShadows @Turrin Sorry for tagging you guys yet again, but do you know if Kakashi made contact based on the SFX involved?
> 
> ...


Huh? Raikiri bounced off the shroud


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## wooly Eullerex (Aug 25, 2020)

cry77 said:


> Are Rasengan and Oodama Rasengan the same technique too?


yes, they are actually.
like chidori, rasengan is already a pinnacle jutsu that can't be improved. but unlike chidori, it can be combined w/ elements.

chidori is confined by nature manipulation, but rasengans spatial manipulation can be visually different w/ varying chakra outputs
_chidori is like a -fitted- lighnting gauntlet, but rasengn is an -adjustable- explosive charge



this is also why rasengan is categorically superior to chidori.

everytimy narutos and sasukes clashes came out anywhere close to even was blatant plot nerfing for the sake of fanservice paaralells between rivals


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## ShinAkuma (Aug 25, 2020)

Serene Grace said:


> The difference in rank only indicates the difficulty of performing the jutsu, it doesn’t indicate whether a jutsu is stronger or not







Aegon Targaryen said:


> And why do you think Lightning Blade is more difficult to perform than Chidori...?



Hard to say but my theory on S vs A rank is because Chidori is Sasuke's jutsu and he has 2 sharingans while Kakashi only has 1.

So Raikiri is tougher to perform *for Kakashi* because he lacks the 2nd sharingan, not that the jutsu is somehow harder to perform overall.


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## ClaretteVeth (Aug 25, 2020)

The difference:


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 25, 2020)

ClaretteVeth said:


> The difference:



Another failed comparison - bringing in Adult Sasuke who obtained Hagoromo's power-up. I mean, if we're gonna go that way, I can bring up DMS Kakashi whose Lightning Blade is stronger than ANY Chidori Sasuke has ever shown, ever (including this one) and the Nukite to boot.


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## Siskebabas (Aug 26, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Another failed comparison - bringing in Adult Sasuke who obtained Hagoromo's power-up. I mean, if we're gonna go that way, I can bring up DMS Kakashi whose Lightning Blade is stronger than ANY Chidori Sasuke has ever shown, ever (including this one) and the Nukite to boot.


Sasuke PS chidori shits on every Raikiri kakashi ever shown


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 26, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Sasuke PS chidori shits on every Raikiri kakashi ever shown



Kakashi's Kamui Raikiri > any Chidori Sasuke has ever shown.


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## Architect (Aug 26, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I think it's pretty clear all four counter-blitz strikes made contact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't see the damage dealt to the head, but I see the red shroud pieces flying in the air and the black mottles on Jin's hand.  So yeah, Kakashi damaged the a bit.
By the way, what's your source for coloured pics? It seems to be of better quality than the one I use.


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## Architect (Aug 26, 2020)

I'll just quote my post


Architect said:


> Raikiri is Chidori *perfected* by honing it to the *limit*.
> It's hard to tell Whether Sasuke's Chidori reached the level of Raikiri.
> But it's interesting that in similar positions P2 Chidori is mostly drawn smaller than P2 Raikiri.
> 
> And sometimes Chidori is very tiny


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## Siskebabas (Aug 26, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Kakashi's Kamui Raikiri > any Chidori Sasuke has ever shown.


No, PS chidro matched naruto bijudama, and combined power managed to blow off parts of avatar


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 26, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> No, PS chidro matched naruto bijudama, and combined power managed to blow off parts of avatar



Fanfiction.


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## Siskebabas (Aug 26, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Fanfiction.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 26, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


>



I meant the ''blow off parts of avatar'' part...


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## Siskebabas (Aug 26, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I meant the ''blow off parts of avatar'' part...


Look at sasukes susanno one more time...


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 26, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Look at sasukes susanno one more time...



Don't see it. As in, I can't even see your links...

Also, Kakashi can do it too if it's true.


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## Siskebabas (Aug 26, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Don't see it. As in, I can't even see your links...
> 
> Also, Kakashi can do it too if it's true.


Chapter 969/page 5
Lol no he cant


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 26, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Chapter 969/page 5
> Lol no he cant



Lol yes he can. Kakashi has a better avatar than Sasuke. He has a better Ninjutsu than Sasuke.

Ergo, Kakashi can do it too.


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## Android (Aug 26, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Lol yes he can. Kakashi has a better avatar than Sasuke. He has a better Ninjutsu than Sasuke.
> 
> Ergo, Kakashi can do it too.


Make a DMS Kakashi vs Rinnegan Sasuke thread.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 26, 2020)

Hellraiser said:


> Make a DMS Kakashi vs Rinnegan Sasuke thread.



Cool.


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## Arles Celes (Aug 26, 2020)

The stronger guys wins of course.

No version of part 1 Sasuke can match Kakashi's raikiri.

Hebi Sasuke with CS2 might have a superior chidori to Kakashi's raikiri while base Hebi Sasuke might have a chidori a bit weaker than Kakashi's raikiri.

MS Sasuke and EMS Sasuke have superior chidori than any version of Kakashi's raikiri save the Six Path enhanced Kakashi.


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## Siskebabas (Aug 26, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Lol yes he can. Kakashi has a better avatar than Sasuke. He has a better Ninjutsu than Sasuke.
> 
> Ergo, Kakashi can do it too.


What does it have to with avatar? What does it have to with ninjutsu? Your claim was that kakashi Raikiri shits on any sasuke, which is not true and not supported by feats


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 26, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> What does it have to with avatar? What does it have to with ninjutsu?



A lot.



Siskebabas said:


> Your claim was that kakashi Raikiri shits on any sasuke



I never, ever said this. Don't put words in my mouth. My claim was that Kakashi's Raikiri > Sasuke's Chidori ALL THINGS EQUAL. If Sasuke has a boost but Kakashi doesn't, Sasuke would be stronger.


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## Siskebabas (Aug 26, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> A lot.
> 
> 
> 
> I never, ever said this. Don't put words in my mouth. My claim was that Kakashi's Raikiri > Sasuke's Chidori ALL THINGS EQUAL. If Sasuke has a boost but Kakashi doesn't, Sasuke would be stronger.


Thats not what you said. 
"Kakashi's Kamui Raikiri > any Chidori Sasuke has ever shown." nice goalpost shifting


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 26, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Thats not what you said.
> "Kakashi's Kamui Raikiri > any Chidori Sasuke has ever shown." nice goalpost shifting



Kamui Raikiri =/ just Raikiri.


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## Siskebabas (Aug 26, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Kamui Raikiri =/ just Raikiri.


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 26, 2020)

Architect said:


> I don't see the damage dealt to the head, but I see the red shroud pieces flying in the air and the black mottles on Jin's hand. So yeah, Kakashi damaged the a bit.


Oops, I think I chose the wrong image, since that was a picture of the 4-Tails.

This is the Three-Tails. In all three pictures, on both sides of its face, the chakra is "lined". Even in the 4th picture, on the left the chakra is lined. Only the part on the right, which is the area Kakashi hit, looks off.


I'm guessing he also hit Two-Tails since that was also on his side. It also seems to have taken similar damage.


The "damage" on those two look more dissimilar than what I thought was damage on the Four-Tails compared to them, so I guess either Gai damaged the 4-Tails or it's just how the lines happened to intersect, which created the "circles", and the Four-Tails wasn't really damaged.



Architect said:


> By the way, what's your source for coloured pics? It seems to be of better quality than the one I use.


https:// --- nyaa . si/view/1238213


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## Architect (Aug 26, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Oops, I think I chose the wrong image, since that was a picture of the 4-Tails.
> 
> This is the Three-Tails. In all three pictures, on both sides of its face, the chakra is "lined". Even in the 4th picture, on the left the chakra is lined. Only the part on the right, which is the area Kakashi hit, looks off.
> 
> ...


 

Just send it in PM I guess


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## Architect (Aug 26, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Oops, I think I chose the wrong image, since that was a picture of the 4-Tails.
> 
> This is the Three-Tails. In all three pictures, on both sides of its face, the chakra is "lined". Even in the 4th picture, on the left the chakra is lined. Only the part on the right, which is the area Kakashi hit, looks off.
> 
> ...


Looks like Gai rumpled Nibi's face, while Kakashi left dots on Four Tails' arm.


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## Architect (Aug 26, 2020)

And I think it's wort% mentioning that straight palm Chidori was never shown to be this sharp

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Aug 26, 2020)

Raikiri is the next level of Chidori, so it is more stronger.

At least that is what was stated in canon.


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 26, 2020)

Architect said:


> Looks like Gai rumpled Nibi's face, while Kakashi left dots on Four Tails' arm.


Nibi was on the leftmost side towards Kakashi, so imo it isn't likely Gai attacked Nibi. And it having jumped while Gai was still in mid-air further suggests to me that Nibi was on ground-level even if he ended up shortly after somewhat close to Gai, so Gai wouldn't have been able to reach him.



Architect said:


> And I think it's wort% mentioning that straight palm Chidori was never shown to be this sharp


To be fair, I think the panel of him hitting what appears to be the Three-Tails had a sharp Raikiri, especially since his hand had the exact same straight shape. It's just that *A)* even if there is damage, the surrounding chakra would pretty quickly cover it up (the chakra surrounding KCM Naruto's face _almost immediately_ "recovered" after lava melted it off); *B)* the Three-Tails' was really quick, so it's probably the case it got more scraped than it getting a full-on direct attack.


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## Blu-ray (Aug 26, 2020)

cry77 said:


> Are Fireball Jutsu and Great Fireball Jutsu the same technique too?
> 
> Are Waterfall Jutsu and Great Waterfall Jutsu the same technique too?


Yes? "Fireball Jutsu" is just what the english dub calls the Great Fireball technique, and there straight up isn't a "waterfall" technique. It's always just been the Great Waterfall Technique.

To answer the thread, Raikiri is Chidori's nickname. Nothing more, nothing less. Kakashi's Chidori got that name when it cut a bolt of ligtning, hence the name lightning cutter. It's not an improved version since it was still _Chidori_ that cut the lightning bolt, and got the name Raikiri after that fact. It's proper name at the end of the day is Chidori. Raikiri is just what it's called when Kakashi uses it, as he was the one who cut lightning using it.

As for the databook ranks, you cannot put much stock into them because they're can be extremely arbitrary. The Reverse Harem is D rank while the regular Harem is A rank, despite being the same jutsu, and the ranks just get absurd when it comes to FTG.

FTG mutual switch is A rank.
FTG second step is A rank.
FTG slash is B rank.
This despite them all just being different ways of using FTG, an S rank technique. There's not even some sort of notable difference like Chidori or Rasengan variants. It's all the same teleportation.

Seeing as the databook listed only Sasuke as a user of Chidori despite Kakashi clearly having the technique as well, it's likely that Sasuke's usage of it was only A rank at that point in time, while Kakashi's was S rank. Dunno how that works since that'd be the only case of the same having it's rank change depending on the user, but seeing as that very databook entry says Chidori is known as Raikiri when used by Kakashi, it's clearly the same jutsu.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 26, 2020)

Blu-ray said:


> To answer the thread, Raikiri is Chidori's nickname. Nothing more, nothing less



So why do Naruto and Sasuke bother differentiating them at all? Why does Kakashi, for that matter?



Blu-ray said:


> It's not an improved version since it was still _Chidori_ that cut the lightning bolt, and got the name Raikiri after that fact



Or maybe because Kakashi used the improved version of Chidori to cut the lghtning bolt...



Blu-ray said:


> As for the databook ranks, you cannot put much stock into them because they're can be extremely arbitrary. The Reverse Harem is D rank while the regular Harem is A rank, despite being the same jutsu



Um, not really. Reverse Harem is just a modification of the regular Harem Jutsu - a modification significantly easier to master compared to the original jutsu. It's no different from how Chidori Blade is B-Rank but Chidori itself is A-Rank.


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## Blu-ray (Aug 26, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> So why do Naruto and Sasuke bother differentiating them at all? Why does Kakashi, for that matter?


I can't recall Sasuke and Kakashi ever differentiating them. Sasuke clarified that the name was actually Chidori to Deidara, which it is. It's only called Raikiri when Kakashi uses it. Naruto was indeed being redundant by saying Sasuke's Chidori and Kakashi's Raikiri when their literally the same jutsu, but that alone can't suddenly dismiss us being flat out told that Raikiri is just a nickname.



> Or maybe because Kakashi used the improved version of Chidori to cut the lghtning bolt...


If you're saying "or maybe" then you're just speculating. At no point was it said he used an improved version of Chidori to cut lightning. We are simply told he used Chidori itself to cut lightning, and only afterwards was his Chidori called Lightning Cutter. If this man did not cut a bolt of lightning with it, it literally would not have gotten the name.

The fact that Gai says "Chidori, _*also known as Raikari*_" should make it clear on it's own that it's one technique with two names.



> Um, not really. Reverse Harem is just a modification of the regular Harem Jutsu - a modification significantly easier to master compared to the original jutsu.


You realize that the Sexy technique and Harem technique are barely techniques of their own right? He's literally just making a bunch of clones and having them use the transformation technique. There's no difference in difficulty or execution.



> It's no different from how Chidori Blade is B-Rank but Chidori itself is A-Rank.


That's just another example of ranks being arbitrary as Sasuke's other Chidori variants are A rank same as the original. Though to be fair, Chidorigatana is just chakra flow which is much simpler simpler than a proper Chidori. It doesn't even employ shape transformation. Its just electricity flowing through the blade.


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## Serene Grace (Aug 26, 2020)

Just gonna let y’all know the name raikiri only exists because kakashi gave Chidori that name after he cut a lightning bolt.
Kakashi himself on more than one occasion has made the two out of be interchangeable()()

They the same shit

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kassididdy956 (Aug 26, 2020)

Chidori is an unrefined raikiri. Raikiri has a mode refined shape which leads to greater power.


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## Serene Grace (Aug 26, 2020)

Btw a C rank fireball jutsu can overpower an A rank jutsu, all the latter technique would require is more chakra. Frog kata is c rank as well, by the logic some are using in this thread it’s weaker than any S rank, A rank or B rank jutsu despite all of us knowing that’s bullshit

Rank has never indicated power, it’s literally only associated with the difficulty of performing seals


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 26, 2020)

Blu-ray said:


> I can't recall Sasuke and Kakashi ever differentiating them. *Sasuke clarified that the name was actually Chidori to Deidara, which it is*. It's only called Raikiri when Kakashi uses it



No, Sasuke clarified  jutsu's name was Chidori.



Blu-ray said:


> Naruto was indeed being redundant by saying Sasuke's Chidori and Kakashi's Raikiri when their literally the same jutsu



I think Naruto has a better understanding of the differences between these two jutsu than a forumgoer like you (or me, for that matter). I also don't see any reason for him to be ''redundant'', if anything he's _more _the kind of guy you'd expect to call them the same thing.



Blu-ray said:


> but that alone can't suddenly dismiss us being flat out told that Raikiri is just a nickname



''Alone''? Not only is that sufficient proof on its own, you also have Sasuke's statement backing it up. On top of that the technique has a separate Databook entry and ranking. It's obvious this technique is to Chidori as Minato's Rasengan is to the regular Rasengan.



Blu-ray said:


> If you're saying "or maybe" then you're just speculating. At no point was it said he used an improved version of Chidori to cut lightning



The Databook listing both jutsu separately and differently isn't me speculating, nor is two characters pointing out the difference. They're the same and different, just like how water is both oxygen and hydrogen _and_ not simply oxygen and hydrogen.



Blu-ray said:


> The fact that Gai says "Chidori, _*also known as Raikari*_" should make it clear on it's own that it's one technique with two names



That's like saying the Big Ball Rasengan is also a Rasengan lmao. Raikiri _is_ Chidori, it's just a stronger version. You have yet to explain satisfactorily how these two jutsu are treated and identified as different from each other, however.

Merely having a new name doesn't explain the Lightning Blade's S-Rank.



Blu-ray said:


> You realize that the Sexy technique and Harem technique are barely techniques of their own right? He's literally just making a bunch of clones and having them use the transformation technique. There's no difference in difficulty or execution



The Sexy Technique has an E-Rank, while the Harem Technique has an A-Rank and the Reverse Harem Technique has a D-Rank. The Harem Technique worked on Ebisu who wasn't affected by the Sexy Technique. The Reverse Harem Technique...worked against Kaguya, but it didn't affect her the way it did Ebisu. In a very loose sense, the rankings actually make sense. Then there's the fact Naruto becomes a guy for the Reverse Harem jutsu, as opposed to a woman for the normal one - it should be harder to impersonate a girl in all the ''relevant'' manners than to impersonate a guy when you're the latter lmao. The Reverse Harem is between Sexy and Harem as it involves multiple copies as opposed to one (unlike the former) but all are male (unlike the latter).

Also, you do realize these are a bunch of troll jutsu, right? Their rankings shouldn't be taken that seriously anyhow.  



Blu-ray said:


> That's just another example of ranks being arbitrary as Sasuke's other Chidori variants are A rank same as the original



Or maybe you're the one being arbitrary and not grasping there is indeed a difference.



Blu-ray said:


> Though to be fair, Chidorigatana is just chakra flow which is much simpler simpler than a proper Chidori. It doesn't even employ shape transformation. Its just electricity flowing through the blade.



But the attack is specifically named after Chidori, implying it uses Chidori in some manner. It's not ''just'' electricity flowing through the blade, it's its own technique.


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## Rinnegan Zetsu (Aug 26, 2020)

Chidori is a ball of chakra. Raikiri is shaped like a blade. Raikiri requires better chakra control and shape manipulation.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 26, 2020)

Serene Grace said:


> Btw a C rank fireball jutsu can overpower an A rank jutsu, all the latter technique would require is more chakra. Frog kata is c rank as well, by the logic some are using in this thread it’s weaker than any S rank, A rank or B rank jutsu despite all of us knowing that’s bullshit



No, y'all are just pretending to be obtuse or something. What we're trying to communicate is that the Lightning Blade and other S-Rank jutsu has a higher BASE POWER than those below it. It's like how in Pokemon you have Flamethrower with a BP of 90 and Bullet Punch with a BP of 40. Flamethrower is pound-for-pound the stronger attack - all you've demonstrated is that there are cases where Bullet Punch could be the better move (e.g. Scizor would make much better use of Bullet Punch as it uses Scizor's stronger Attack stat). Literally anyone who plays Pokemon or any other RPG knows this shit.


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## Serene Grace (Aug 26, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> No, y'all are just pretending to be obtuse or something. What we're trying to communicate is that the Lightning Blade and other S-Rank jutsu has a higher BASE POWER than those below it. It's like how in Pokemon you have Flamethrower with a BP of 90 and Bullet Punch with a BP of 40. Flamethrower is pound-for-pound the stronger attack - all you've demonstrated is that there are cases where Bullet Punch could be the better move (e.g. Scizor would make much better use of Bullet Punch as it uses Scizor's stronger Attack stat). Literally anyone who plays Pokemon or any other RPG knows this shit.


obviously certain jutsu are stronger than others in certain situations but I think one can objectively evaluate 2 different jutsu’s and come to the conclusion one is stronger than the other. Anyways I’ve explained that rank is associated with the difficulty of the seals of the jutsu


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 26, 2020)

Serene Grace said:


> obviously certain jutsu are stronger than others in certain situations but I think one can objectively evaluate 2 different jutsu’s and come to the conclusion one is stronger than the other



And that's what I...did. So where again is your problem?



Serene Grace said:


> Anyways I’ve explained that rank is associated with the difficulty of the seals of the jutsu



And you think Lightning Blade is more difficult than Chidori...why, exactly? You think Kakashi made a jutsu tougher for kicks?


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## cry77 (Aug 27, 2020)

Blu-ray said:


> Yes? "Fireball Jutsu" is just what the english dub calls the Great Fireball technique, and there straight up isn't a "waterfall" technique. It's always just been the Great Waterfall Technique.
> 
> To answer the thread, Raikiri is Chidori's nickname. Nothing more, nothing less. Kakashi's Chidori got that name when it cut a bolt of ligtning, hence the name lightning cutter. It's not an improved version since it was still _Chidori_ that cut the lightning bolt, and got the name Raikiri after that fact. It's proper name at the end of the day is Chidori. Raikiri is just what it's called when Kakashi uses it, as he was the one who cut lightning using it.
> 
> ...


So why did Kakashi himself start calling it Raikiri? 

He started off calling it Chidori.
And then he actively changed the name to Raikiri. Why?


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## deltaniner (Aug 27, 2020)

cry77 said:


> So why did Kakashi himself start calling it Raikiri?
> 
> He started off calling it Chidori.
> And then he actively changed the name to Raikiri. Why?


Because he used it to _cut lightning_.

He called it Raikiri, _Lightning Cutter_, because, it had _cut lightning_.

It's not that hard to grasp.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 27, 2020)

deltaniner said:


> Because he used it to _cut lightning_, you dense friend.
> 
> He called it Raikiri, _Lightning Cutter_, because, it had _cut lightning_.
> 
> It's not that hard to grasp.



No need to be rude.


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## Blu-ray (Aug 27, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> No, Sasuke clarified  jutsu's name was Chidori.


I'm not sure why you're putting emphasis on the "my" part. He's simply telling Deidara that the name of his technically Chidori, which it is. Raikiri is not a general nickname. It's a nickname only for when Kakashi himself is using it.



> I think Naruto has a better understanding of the differences between these two jutsu than a forumgoer like you (or me, for that matter). I also don't see any reason for him to be ''redundant'', if anything he's _more _the kind of guy you'd expect to call them the same thing.


Naruto's a moron, not a guy with replete understanding of all things, so him having a greater understanding of things than the reader is not a given. That just goes for characters in general since we're often privy to knowledge the characters themselves are not. Take Sasuke's intentions to kill the Bijuu for instance. We as the reader know they'd just come back, which Sasuke did not.

Though that's all besides the point since I don't think his statement is tantamount to him saying they're two different techniques in the first place. Furthermore, me being a "forumgoer" is irrelevant. Nothing I said was my opinion, perception, or interpretation. I'm literally just regurgitating what Gai and the databook state, and unlike you, I'm giving it as is. Not giving my own interpretation of what I think it means.



> ''Alone''? Not only is that sufficient proof on its own, you also have Sasuke's statement backing it up. On top of that the technique has a separate Databook entry and ranking. It's obvious this technique is to Chidori as Minato's Rasengan is to the regular Rasengan.
> 
> The Databook listing both jutsu separately and differently isn't me speculating, nor is two characters pointing out the difference. They're the same and different, just like how water is both oxygen and hydrogen _and_ not simply oxygen and hydrogen.


Yes, alone. Nothing else in the manga suggests Raikiri is anything more or anything less than a nickname. Also, constantly bringing up the different rank or them having separate entries is a bit silly if you're just going to ignore the article, the part that conveys the actual information.



> *That's like saying the Big Ball Rasengan is also a Rasengan lmao.* Raikiri _is_ Chidori, it's just a stronger version. You have yet to explain satisfactorily how these two jutsu are treated and identified as different from each other, however.


It isn't. Sasuke was using Chidori and Gai said it was also known as Raikiri. Nobody is gonna look at a standard Rasengan and say it's also known as Odama Rasengan.



> The Sexy Technique has an E-Rank, while the Harem Technique has an A-Rank and the Reverse Harem Technique has a D-Rank. The Harem Technique worked on Ebisu who wasn't affected by the Sexy Technique. The Reverse Harem Technique...worked against Kaguya, but it didn't affect her the way it did Ebisu. In a very loose sense, the rankings actually make sense. Then there's the fact Naruto becomes a guy for the Reverse Harem jutsu, as opposed to a woman for the normal one - it should be harder to impersonate a girl in all the ''relevant'' manners than to impersonate a guy when you're the latter lmao. The Reverse Harem is between Sexy and Harem as it involves multiple copies as opposed to one (unlike the former) but all are male (unlike the latter).
> 
> Also, you do realize these are a bunch of troll jutsu, right? Their rankings shouldn't be taken that seriously anyhow.


This is just a reach at this point. Both jutsu are just Naruto having his clones use the transformation technique, and seeing as that technique has the same rank regardless of what the user transforms into, the difference between turning into men or women shouldn't cause any disparity in rank, let alone to such a enormous degree that one is A and the other D.


> Or maybe you're the one being arbitrary and not grasping there is indeed a difference.


Learn what the word arbitrary means. It doesn't make sense to say I'm being arbitrary as a retort to me calling something else that. Nothing I'm posting is random. The ranks are arbitrary because the databook just slaps a letter onto jutsu with zero explanation as to why they have that rank, even when similar techniques have differing ranks, hence them being arbitrary.



> But the attack is specifically named after Chidori, implying it uses Chidori in some manner. It's not ''just'' electricity flowing through the blade, it's its own technique.


It does use Chidori. That's where the electricity that's flowed into the blade comes from.



Kassididdy956 said:


> Chidori is an unrefined raikiri. Raikiri has a mode refined shape which leads to greater power.





Rinnegan Zetsu said:


> Chidori is a ball of chakra. Raikiri is shaped like a blade. Raikiri requires better chakra control and shape manipulation.


I really don't know how this topic has gone on for as long as it has, and still people find a way to make shit up. Chidori is not an unrefined Raikiri nor is it a ball of chakra, nor is shape transformation something added to just Raikiri.

Kakashi literally went in depth as to how Chidori comes about in his explanation to Naruto, and he made it clear that it requires both nature and shape transformation, and at no point was Raikiri called a more refined Chidori or anything like. Literally no comparison between the two was ever made.

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## cry77 (Aug 27, 2020)

deltaniner said:


> Because he used it to _cut lightning_, you dense friend.
> 
> He called it Raikiri, _Lightning Cutter_, because, it had _cut lightning_.
> 
> It's not that hard to grasp.


It cut through Kakuzus' heart too, yet he didnt rename it Heart Cutter. It cut through Haku too, yet he didnt rename it Haku Cutter. 
Just doesnt seem IC for Kakashi to rename a technique just because of a feat. Maybe Minato would do something like that, but not Kakashi. 

I still stand by my main logic, Raikiri is to Chidori what Oodama Rasengan is to Rasengan.

The fundamentally same technique with a power difference. And between 2 equally skilled and equally powerful users, Raikiri would win over Chidori. In the anime, Raikiri seems to have a more intense blue color contrary to the more white-ish Chidori, indicating a potency difference.


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## Architect (Aug 27, 2020)

The turmoil around jutsu names...
Aren't Minato's Rasengan and Naruto's Rasengan the same technique despite Minato's being bigger? (I am not saying that the only difference between Raikiri and Chidori should be their sizes though. It could also be oscillation frequency - qualitative attribute introduced into this manga by Kisame's commentary if I am not mistaken, chakra concentration/density and sharpness)
Moreover, even something as different as spatial vortex and intangibility was called "the same jutsu" or maybe "one jutsu".
Now Naruto's and Minato's Rasengan don't even have different ranks, while Raikiri and Chidori have. Which only contributes to the idea there might be more to it than just the size when comparing Raikiri and Chidori.
Now, generally, maybe it's not very productive to compare ranks of  different techniques, but when one is a honed to its limit version of another - why not?


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## Android (Aug 27, 2020)

Even if Raikiri and Chidori are indeed separate techniques (despite tons of evidences say they're not) this still doesn't prove that Sasuke's Chidori application is weaker than Kakashi's Raikiri.

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## Kassididdy956 (Aug 28, 2020)

Rinnegan Zetsu said:


> Chidori is a ball of chakra. Raikiri is shaped like a blade. Raikiri requires better chakra control and shape manipulation.


Yep. Lmao I dont know why people don't see it.


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## Kassididdy956 (Aug 28, 2020)

Kassididdy956 said:


> Yep. Lmao I dont know why people don't see it.


It makes even more sense when you realize Sasukes affinity is fire and kakashi's is lightning

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## Semiotic Sacrilege (Aug 28, 2020)

I've always just assumed that Raikiri was the same basic technique as Chidori but performed with more proficiency. A higher concentration or cleaner manipulation of the chakra used. No real reason for Kishi to give them seperate ranks otherwise. One interesting thing to note is that Chidori and Raikiri generally sound different in the anime. I mean, they both sound like electricity but Chidori is often accompanied by that high pitched shriek SFX and it's either absent or not nearly as pronounced with Raikiri.


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## Kassididdy956 (Aug 29, 2020)

Semiotic Sacrilege said:


> I've always just assumed that Raikiri was the same basic technique as Chidori but performed with more proficiency. A higher concentration or cleaner manipulation of the chakra used. No real reason for Kishi to give them seperate ranks otherwise. One interesting thing to note is that Chidori and Raikiri generally sound different in the anime. I mean, they both sound like electricity but Chidori is often accompanied by that high pitched shriek SFX and it's either absent or not nearly as pronounced with Raikiri.


Chicory usually looks (like almost always) like a semi disorganized ball of lightning Chakra. Raikir typically looks like a refined blade of lightning Chakra. Look at the Pain fight. Kakashi's raikiri fits neatly on his hand. Look at Sasuke VS Raikage. Chidori is a large ball of discharging electricity.


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## ClaretteVeth (Aug 29, 2020)

Kassididdy956 said:


> Chicory usually looks (like almost always) like a semi disorganized ball of lightning Chakra. Raikir typically looks like a refined blade of lightning Chakra. Look at the Pain fight. Kakashi's raikiri fits neatly on his hand. Look at Sasuke VS Raikage. Chidori is a large ball of discharging electricity.



Er no? They have the same effect and appearance


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 29, 2020)

Blu-ray said:


> I'm not sure why you're putting emphasis on the "my" part. He's simply telling Deidara that the name of his technically Chidori, which it is



Not just that - he's also telling Deidara that his technique is _not_ named Lightning Blade.



Blu-ray said:


> Raikiri is not a general nickname. It's a nickname only for when Kakashi himself is using it



It is a general nickname though.



Blu-ray said:


> Naruto's a moron, not a guy with replete understanding of all things, so him having a greater understanding of things than the reader is not a given



Fair, but him being a moron would make him more likely to confuse the Lightning Blade for Chidori, not less.

The fact he doesn't do so points to both being separate techniques.



Blu-ray said:


> Though that's all besides the point since I don't think his statement is tantamount to him saying they're two different techniques in the first place



So why is he listing both techniques separately?



Blu-ray said:


> Furthermore, me being a "forumgoer" is irrelevant. Nothing I said was my opinion, perception, or interpretation. I'm literally just regurgitating what Gai and the databook state, and unlike you, I'm giving it as is. Not giving my own interpretation of what I think it means



The manga and the Databooks...disagree. The Databooks list Lightning Blade as its own jutsu with a separate ranking from Chidori. Naruto and Sasuke, two people acquainted with Sasuke's Chidori and Kakashi's Lightning Blade personally, distinguish them.

So yeah, you are giving your own interpretation of what you think it means.



Blu-ray said:


> Yes, alone. Nothing else in the manga suggests Raikiri is anything more or anything less than a nickname. Also, constantly bringing up the different rank or them having separate entries is a bit silly if you're just going to ignore the article, the part that conveys the actual information



I didn't ignore the article...? What part of the article contradicts a thing I said?



Blu-ray said:


> It isn't. Sasuke was using Chidori and Gai said it was also known as Raikiri. Nobody is gonna look at a standard Rasengan and say it's also known as Odama Rasengan



Lol. You should take a look at Minato's Rasengan though...



Blu-ray said:


> This is just a reach at this point. Both jutsu are just Naruto having his clones use the transformation technique, and seeing as that technique has the same rank regardless of what the user transforms into



Clearly you failed to understand that even for a technique of a particular rank, different levels of mastery exist. See: Rasengan. Minato has a bigger Rasengan but still calls it ''Rasengan''. Ay's Body Flicker is the same jutsu as P1 Sasuke's versus Haku but no one would argue the two techniques aren't vastly different in terms of actual power. I really don't know why this is so hard for you to get.



Blu-ray said:


> Learn what the word arbitrary means. It doesn't make sense to say I'm being arbitrary as a retort to me calling something else that. Nothing I'm posting is random. The ranks are arbitrary because the databook just slaps a letter onto jutsu with zero explanation as to why they have that rank, even when similar techniques have differing ranks, hence them being arbitrary



But the ranks came from Kishimoto, and Kishimoto's words > yours insofar as relevance goes, so...



Blu-ray said:


> It does use Chidori. That's where the electricity that's flowed into the blade comes from



Okay, and...?



Blu-ray said:


> I really don't know how this topic has gone on for as long as it has, and still people find a way to make shit up. Chidori is not an unrefined Raikiri nor is it a ball of chakra, nor is shape transformation something added to just Raikiri.
> 
> Kakashi literally went in depth as to how Chidori comes about in his explanation to Naruto, and he made it clear that it requires both nature and shape transformation, and at no point was Raikiri called a more refined Chidori or anything like. Literally no comparison between the two was ever made.



That's all well and good, but we have other pieces of evidence that serve as clues. Not sure why you're getting so worked up over this, really. I might be wrong, really - although I doubt that I am. If that makes you feel better, that's also the truth.


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## Blu-ray (Aug 30, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Not just that - he's also telling Deidara that his technique is _not_ named Lightning Blade.


Sasuke did not say _"My technique is not named Lightning Blade."_ He said_ "By the way, my jutsu is *technically* called Chidori."_ He was telling Deidara, who was calling it by an informal nickname, a nickname only Kakashi's use of the technique goes by, that it's actual name was Chidori. It's not that deep. 



> It is a general nickname though.


The databook entry you constantly cite yet never read flat out states that Raikiri is known as Chidori _when Kakashi uses it_. Sasuke is not Kakashi, so no. Not a general nickname.

Also, you realize that calling it a nickname in any capacity is flat out proving yourself wrong right?


> Fair, but him being a moron would make him more likely to confuse the Lightning Blade for Chidori, not less.


No, being a moron would be thinking the same exact thing is actually two different things because they happen to have two names.



> The manga and the Databooks...disagree.



*Link Removed*


*"Chidori, also known as Lightning Blade"*
*"The Lightning Blade is it's nickname, because Kakashi once sliced lightning using this jutsu."*
*"IT'S FORMAL NAME IS CHIDORI"*



> *Chidori (One Thousand Birds)*
> 
> Ninjutsu, A-rank, Offensive, Close-range
> User: Uchiha Sasuke
> ...


The words in the large red font is what I've been arguing this entire time, and all of it comes from the manga and databook. None of it is my words or my interpretation, so I can only assume you've been reading some entirely different manga that disagrees.



> I didn't ignore the article...? What part of the article contradicts a thing I said?


This part.


> *When Kakashi uses it, Chidori is known as Raikiri.*





> Lol. You should take a look at Minato's Rasengan though...


You mean the thing smaller than an Odama Rasengan and was never called an Odama Rasengan? I see it clearly.



> Clearly you failed to understand that even for a technique of a particular rank, different levels of mastery exist. See: Rasengan. Minato has a bigger Rasengan but still calls it ''Rasengan''. Ay's Body Flicker is the same jutsu as P1 Sasuke's versus Haku but no one would argue the two techniques aren't vastly different in terms of actual power. I really don't know why this is so hard for you to get.


Okay I dunno where you got Sasuke using the same jutsu as Ay against Haku from. I think I'd have noticed if he coated himself in lightning to boost his reflexes and speed. Dunno where that came from.

Secondly, I have no idea why you're talking about mastery. Your argument up until now was that Chidori and Raikiri were not the same technique, not that they're the same technique with different levels of mastery.



> But the ranks came from Kishimoto, and Kishimoto's words > yours insofar as relevance goes, so...


I agree, which is why I posted Kishimoto's words in bright pretty red colors. Now's your turn. Find a single quote in either the manga or databook that states Raikiri is a different technique. Not your interpretation of what you think them having different ranks or entries insinuates. An actual quote. I'm waiting.


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## Kassididdy956 (Aug 30, 2020)

ClaretteVeth said:


> Er no? They have the same effect and appearance


I like how you ignored what I said. 

Now post pics of pain fight Raikiri and raikage fight chidori.


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## dergeist (Aug 30, 2020)

Raikiri would be the peak one can take chidori to, however pontetn chakra will always make a weaker attack stronger. Sasuke's chakra is Indra chakra so his Chidori should be stronger than a regular Chidori. If not then by EofS. Although after losing his amps and his arm he's regressed a lot


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 30, 2020)

They are the EXACT same Jutsu...*Link Removed* AND  





			
				1st DB said:
			
		

> *Chidori (Thousand Birds)*
> Ninjutsu, A-rank, Offensive, Close-range
> 
> User: Uchiha Sasuke
> ...



Its stated by multiple characters throughout the series including Hiruzen, Gai, Kakashi and Sasuke themselves, Deidara, Naruto, The Raikage...That they are the same technique.

*Link Removed* 


*Link Removed* *Link Removed* *Link Removed*

And motherfucking cherry on motherfucking top...The MYTH that the 2 Techniques are NAMED AFTER features 1 SWORD merely gaining 2 NAMES. Not 2 different swords.


			
				Legend of Tachibana Dōsetsu said:
			
		

> Dōsetsu was in possession of a famous sword called Chidori (千鳥, A Thousand Birds). One day, while he was still a young man, he was taking shelter under a tree, as it was raining. Suddenly, a bolt of lightning struck him. However, Dōsetsu used his Chidori to cut the Thunder God inside the lightning bolt, allowing him to survive. After this incident, he renamed his Chidori to Raikiri (雷切, Lightning Cutter).




They are the SAME Jutsu

The deciding factor of any clash between them will be decided by the difference in the USERS...Not the Jutsu itself.

I fucking hate the NBD sometimes man 

The same shitty debates with the exact same simpleminded people who cant admit they are wrong every other month 

Anywho, with that out of the way


Hellraiser said:


> Round 01: BOS Sasuke's Chidori vs BOS Kakashi's Raikiri (no CS boost)


BoS Sasuke > IA Naruto > IA kakashi > BoS Kakashi

Sasuke would win this clash

He has more raw chakra, more potent chakra and better chakra control than Kakashi does

Every avenue Kakashi could take to "overcharge" his Chidori is one Sasuke can also use to overcharge his Raikiri (yep, you read that right, did it on purpose cuz they are synonymous. Get it though your heads) and do so for longer and better than kakashi can.


Hellraiser said:


> Round 02: MS Sasuke's Chidori vs FKS Kakashi's Raikiri


This Sasuke is hilariously ahead of Kakashi in everything as well

Refer above


Hellraiser said:


> Round 03: EMS Sasuke's Chidori vs WA Kakashi's Raikiri


Again

EMS Sasuke is well beyond Kakashi in every aspect of chakra manipulation and chakra resources 

He shits in this clash as well

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## dergeist (Aug 30, 2020)

@Mad Scientist wanna add anything.

Chidori Databook entry = A rank no mention of peak honing it to the limit



Why would the same jutsu take on a different name and rank, if they're the same






I still think potent chakra would still trump regular  chakra using the same jutsu.

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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2020)

Blu-ray said:


> Sasuke did not say _"My technique is not named Lightning Blade."_ He said_ "By the way, my jutsu is *technically* called Chidori."_ He was telling Deidara, who was calling it by an informal nickname, a nickname only Kakashi's use of the technique goes by



You made this ''informal nickname'' part up, bro. It's a formal name accompanied by a separate ranking AND Databook entry.

You're trying to tell me the SAME technique somehow has TWO different Databook entries. What kind of sense does that make?!



Blu-ray said:


> The databook entry you constantly cite yet never read flat out states that Raikiri is known as Chidori _when Kakashi uses it_. Sasuke is not Kakashi, so no. Not a general nickname



Yet they have two separate Databook entries. Unlike you, I actually do read what I cite. But more than that, I exercise common sense.




Blu-ray said:


> Also, you realize that calling it a nickname in any capacity is flat out proving yourself wrong right?



Define ''nickname''. It's a nickname for the jutsu just as Big Ball Rasengan is a nickname for Rasengan.

A Big Ball Rasengan is still a Rasengan, just as a Lightning Blade is still a Chidori. Doesn't change the fact it's stronger as well.



Blu-ray said:


> No, being a moron would be thinking the same exact thing is actually two different things because they happen to have two names.



I'll ignore the fact that you just resorted to ad hominem in spite of being a moderator. It is kinda pathetic you did so though.

Also, the fact they are two different things is supported by them having different names AND different rankings AND different entries.



Blu-ray said:


> *Link Removed*
> 
> 
> *"Chidori, also known as Lightning Blade"*
> ...



The manga and Databook which...continually distinguish both techniques as separate from each other in the ways cited above.



Blu-ray said:


> This part



Too bad it doesn't say what you think it says.



Blu-ray said:


> You mean the thing smaller than an Odama Rasengan and was never called an Odama Rasengan? I see it clearly



Clearly you don't. You ignored the fact it's also BIGGER than a regular Rasengan. 

Also, Konohamaru's Rasengan is SMALLER but I notice you don't consider it a separate technique either. 



Blu-ray said:


> Okay I dunno where you got Sasuke using the same jutsu as Ay against Haku from. I think I'd have noticed if he coated himself in lightning to boost his reflexes and speed. Dunno where that came from.



Imagine being this obtuse lmao. Fine, let's use a simpler comparison.

Do you deny that P1 Sasuke used the same jutsu against Haku as his P2 counterpart did against BoS Naruto? 



Blu-ray said:


> Secondly, I have no idea why you're talking about mastery. Your argument up until now was that Chidori and Raikiri were not the same technique, not that they're the same technique with different levels of mastery



Um, it has always been my argument that Lightning Blade is to Chidori as Big Ball Rasengan is to normal Rasengan.

Where on earth have you been? 



Blu-ray said:


> I agree, which is why I posted Kishimoto's words in bright pretty red colors. Now's your turn. Find a single quote in either the manga or databook that states Raikiri is a different technique.
> 
> Not your interpretation of what you think them having different ranks or entries insinuates



Too bad those different ranks and entries came from Kishimoto himself. Don't be a hypocrite...



Blu-ray said:


> I'm waiting.



I mean, apart from the fact Sasuke corrects Deidara about the jutsu's name and Naruto distinguishes the two separately...


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 30, 2020)

dergeist said:


> @Mad Scientist wanna add anything.
> 
> Chidori Databook entry = A rank no mention of peak honing it to the limit
> 
> ...


In the 2 exact fucking scans you posted...Sasukes Chidori is referred to as Raikiri in his scan, and Kakashis is referred to as both in his as well

You fucking shot yourself in the foot dude

Nice


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 30, 2020)

dergeist said:


> @Mad Scientist wanna add anything.
> 
> Chidori Databook entry = A rank no mention of peak honing it to the limit
> 
> ...


I've made a  proving Raikiri > Chidori. I've also  the NBD's hypocrisy surrounding the topic.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 30, 2020)

dergeist said:


> Read the scan


You read the scans

Sasukes scan

"Kakashis Chidori is known as Raikiri"

Saying they are the same Jutsu with different names

Kakashis Scan

"Kakashis Chidori is Raikiri"

Again

Backs up Gais testimony in the manga calling them the same Jutsu, Hiruzen does the same thing, Kakashi does...They use the same amount of chakra, they use the same hand seals


dergeist said:


> explain the difference and the ranks


There is no difference beyond the ranks 

Ranks which are beyond inconsistent

And the DB directly contradicts itself in the very 2 scans youve posted as it calls them the exact same Technique in BOTH entries


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I've made a  proving Raikiri > Chidori. I've also  the NBD's hypocrisy surrounding the topic.



I'll look into those. I definitely think people are being very closed-minded about Lightning Blade being > Chidori when the mere fact they have separate rankings (kind of a big deal) AND entries (also kind of a big deal) should be proof enough of this. Yet people will argue stuff like Sasuke's Chidori is equal to or stronger than Kakashi's Lightning Blade based on...absolutely nothing more than Deidara and Ay calling it the Lightning Blade or Kakashi's jutsu respectively, which isn't really strong evidence as neither has been proven to have seen either of these jutsu before IIRC and Chidori WAS Kakashi's jutsu before he acquired the Lightning Blade.



WorldsStrongest said:


> And the DB directly contradicts itself in the very 2 scans youve posted as it calls them the exact same Technique in BOTH entries



It's not the ''exact same technique'', buddy. The Databook never uses those words. It's no different from how Rasengan and Big Ball Rasengan are the exact same technique but the latter is just bigger and stronger.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 30, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I've made a  proving Raikiri > Chidori


That you got your ass kicked in

Your entire argument was Kakashi > Part 1 Sasuke so Raikiri > Chidori 

All you pointed out where differences in individual ability, never once a difference in how the techniques themselves actually function or perform 

And every time this was pointed out to you, you simply said "NO thats not what Im doing! I swear!" 

Also one of your arguments was fucking "sound effects" 

Was a joke thread


Mad Scientist said:


> I've also  the NBD's hypocrisy surrounding the topic.


Lel here as well


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 30, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> It's not the ''exact same technique'', buddy.


Yes 

Yes it is

And is referred to as such in the manga and in the guides


Aegon Targaryen said:


> The Databook never uses those words.


Yes it does

Literally calls Raikiri the Chidori and vice versa twice

Manga also does this


Aegon Targaryen said:


> It's no different from how Rasengan and Big Ball Rasengan are the exact same technique but the latter is just bigger and stronger.


Except thats not the same at all

As Raikiri and Chidori are in no way different in size or power or mechanics or creation

Odama vs Base Rasengan however is radically different, Naruto needs the help of a clone to create and use Odama, he needs KN power to use it, and its fucking massive and the end result cannot be fucking compared to base Rasengan as the damage is devstating by comparison.

Chidori and Raikiri are visibly identical, are created using the exact same amount of chakra, are formed by the same method of chakra use and control, have the same hand seals AND produce the same results. In fact Chidori arguably has the superior feats between peer users if we wanna split hairs


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2020)

Sasuke's Chidori has better feats? How? Sasuke's Chidori has a way worse fail record than Kakashi's Lightning Blade.

Sasuke failed to take Gaara down with it. He failed to take the Raikage down with it. He failed to take SPSM Naruto down with it. He failed to take Ten-Tails Madara down with it. There may be other instances of failure I don't even remember lol.

Kakashi has, as far as I remember, never truly failed to take anyone down with his Lightning Blade - short of that one Version 2 Jinchuriki he attacked (also a way more durable opponent than P1 Gaara or the Raikage). Even then, Kakashi immediately made up for it by cutting off that Jinchuriki's chakra arms using Lightning Chain, which is basically a stronger variant. Even Asura Path took a heavy hit and so did Kaguya. Even if we include Sasuke cutting Madara in half (which didn't even inconvenience him, whereas Kakashi's attack DID inconvenience her, and she's WAY stronger than Madara), Kakashi is better. Outside of Naruto: The Last, Kakashi has done way more damage with his Lightning Blade consistently.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 30, 2020)

dergeist said:


> This is the response of one with less than two brain cells to rub together.


This is the response of someone with their head up their ass

As a result they cant fucking read basic english

Cuz if he could hed see Chidori and Raikiri being referred to interchangeably in the very 2 images he posted, where it states they ONLY differ in name.

A direct debunk of his stance


dergeist said:


> The "same" jutsu has different ranks, and there's no difference beyond that


Yes

That is correct

What does Raikiri do over Chidori genius?

Chidori has better feats in fact 


dergeist said:


> You got examples of the same jutsu having different ranks
> 
> Let me know when you get there


@Blu-ray has already given several exmaples

There are FTG maneuvers that use the same damn S-Ranked FTG port in addition to further attacks that are listed as below S-Rank

Ranks do not fucking matter and are not indicative of Jutsu strength or complexity at all

More examples


1000 Sharks is B-Ranked...5 of those exact same Sharks? ALSO B-Ranked. ONE of those exact sharks? B-Ranked as well. Now, based on rank, tell me which Jutsu is "stronger". Cuz based on your logic they are all equal.
Narutos handbook 2,000 Multi Shadow Clone Jutsu? A-Ranked. 1 fucking Lightning Clone? Also A-Ranked. Whats stronger?
Shit like that

And there are oodles more


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Ranks do not fucking matter and are not indicative of Jutsu strength or complexity at all



Yeah, you just made this part up. Ranks obviously do matter (not the same thing, but Kakashi talks about why mission ranking is important in P1). Ranks denote difficulty of learning the jutsu, which in turn is closely linked to the strength or usefulness of the jutsu. Look at literally any S-Rank jutsu other than Lightning Blade and tell me it's not kind of OP. Lightning Blade has a consistently superior record to Chidori, even if we include variants here. Not just that,


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 30, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Sasuke's Chidori has better feats? How? Sasuke's Chidori has a way worse fail record than Kakashi's Lightning Blade.


Success rates arent better feats dude

People who fight more often are going to have shitter rates of success with EVERY Jutsu than people who fight less often 

Example

How many Kage Bunshins of Narutos have been destroyed without accomplishing anything?

Now how many of Konohamarus Kage Bunshin have been destroyed without accomplishing anything?

Fucking exactly

But you woudlnt call Konohamarus clones "stronger" or suggest they have better feats now would you?

Fuck no


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Sasuke failed to take Gaara down with it.


I specifically stated "between peer users" and you bring up a 12 year old Sasuke

Nice fucking dishonesty bud

I might as well say Kakashis Chidori is fodder because Iwa fodder almost killed him while he used it when he was 12

Piss off with this garbage


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2020)

Your ''peer users'' argument doesn't work when Kakashi's best feats of Lightning Blade > Sasuke's best feats of Chidori.

Also, try not getting triggered by anyone who casts doubt on Sasuke's superiority lol.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 30, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Yeah, you just made this part up


No

No I didnt

And I gave multiple examples as to why


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Ranks obviously do matter.


No they dont


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Ranks denote difficulty of learning the jutsu,


No actually they dont

As Ive already given examples of this

You think 1,000 Sharks or 2,000 Kage Bunshin are just as easy to learn how to use or just as easy to perform as 1 Shark or 1 Clone?

Cuz the Db says they are according to you.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Look at literally any S-Rank jutsu other than Lightning Blade and tell me it's not kind of OP.


And likewise compare Raikiri to any other S rank and tell me they are peer techniques

Now fuck off

Databook ranks are not indicative of complexity or power of the Jutsu


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> No
> 
> No I didnt
> 
> ...



I mean, considering you're telling me to ignore Kishimoto's own words...maybe you should really stop wasting your breath. You aren't convincing me. Ranks MATTER. The Akatsuki are hyped as being S-Class Ninja, which means ranks matter. Missions are ranked according to difficulty, which means ranks matter (Kakashi even talks about how the Zabuza mission actually should have a higher rank than originally thought). The mission was supposed to be C-Rank but turned out to be A-Rank due to Zabuza's involvement.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2020)

Also, adding an elemental affinity to a Shadow Clone is actually a pretty impressive feat. The Lightning Style Shadow Clone is way better than a regular Shadow Clone (A > B) - the fact you can do physical tasks with it while also electrocuting anyone who hits it?

That's dope.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 30, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I mean, considering you're telling me to ignore Kishimoto's own words


Youre already doing that all on your own when you ignore him stating Chidori and Raikiri are the same fucking jutsu anyway



Aegon Targaryen said:


> You aren't convincing me. Ranks MATTER


1,000 sharks vs 1 shark

2,000 clones vs 1 clone

Whats more difficult to learn and produce and why

Fucking dazzle me


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## dergeist (Aug 30, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> This is the response of someone with their head up their ass
> 
> As a result they cant fucking read basic english



The comeback, looks like those two brain cells are still misfiring.



> Cuz if he could hed see Chidori and Raikiri being referred to interchangeably in the very 2 images he posted, where it states they ONLY differ in name.
> 
> A direct debunk of his stance
> 
> ...



Yep *"it's perfected by honing it to the limit" *means nothing. I guess They decided to state it's perfected for shits and giggles.

Dumbass logic at it's finest.

The rasengan = A rank.
The tailed beast ball is the same jutsu = S rank.



> Chidori has better feats in fact



I don't think anybody denied that considering Sasuke has stronger chakra than Kakashi. Even an inferiro jutsu can produce superior effects.



> @Blu-ray has already given several exmaples
> 
> There are FTG maneuvers that use the same damn S-Ranked FTG port in addition to further attacks that are listed as below S-Rank



Begging for back up, the example is a joke right. The FTG jutsu with the B rank is the sword slice aspect of it. You wanna try again



> Ranks do not fucking matter and are not indicative of Jutsu strength or complexity at all



Sure they're not I guess when Kakashi was given the example of S rank and difficulty he was doing it for shits and giggles. As was Hiraoay when he was explaining rasengan to Naruto



> More examples
> 
> 
> 1000 Sharks is B-Ranked...5 of those exact same Sharks? ALSO B-Ranked. ONE of those exact sharks? B-Ranked as well. Now, based on rank, tell me which Jutsu is "stronger". Cuz based on your logic they are all equal.
> ...



Change you're name to redundant, can't even make like for like comparisons.

I'll give you 1, since the misfiring braincells aren't helping.

Shadow clone jutsu = B rank.
Mult Shadow clone jutsu = A rank.

What's the difference, get those cells firing

Come back with a half decent response at least. The sub par fanfic level quality is abysmal, otherwise you won't get more of my time.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Youre already doing that all on your own when you ignore him stating Chidori and Raikiri are the same fucking jutsu anyway
> 
> 
> 1,000 sharks vs 1 shark
> ...



Kishimoto didn't say that.

I mean, 1,000 sharks vs 1 shark is largely an issue of chakra lmao. You need more chakra to make more sharks. Having the same ranking is nothing special here. There is likely a skill component here as well but ultimately it's more about chakra level.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 30, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> You need more chakra to make more sharks


Ergo the technique is more difficult to cast and more difficult to learn to perform

As the more chakra anything uses, the harder it is to control, as directly stated

Yet the techniques in question have the same rank

Which makes no sense

And even ignoring that, acting as if 1 shark vs 1,000 of those exact same sharks hit just as hard is beyond stupid as well, Directly debunking that rank correlates to even PEER power.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> There is likely a skill component here as well but ultimately it's more about chakra level.


More chakra to control = needing more skill to control it

Was half the fucking reason Narutos chakra control was ass as a kid


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Ergo the technique is more difficult to cast and more difficult to learn to perform
> 
> As the more chakra anything uses, the harder it is to control, as directly stated
> 
> ...



More difficult to cast? Proof of this? Do you have any? If the only requirement is more chakra, that's not a skill issue.

As for ''more chakra to control = needing more skill to control it'', I'll need some proof of that. Naruto just intrinsically sucks at chakra control and Kurama's chakra mixing with his own IIRC fucked that up somehow - it's not just an issue of ''mOrE cHAkra'' lol.

Also, someone's ignoring the possibility that ranks can be pretty well encompassing...Big Ball Rasengan > Rasengan, but same rank.


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## Architect (Aug 30, 2020)

Senei Jashu - C Rank
Senei Ta Jashu - B Rank

Shadow Clone - B Rank
Multiple Shadow Clone - A Rank

Rashomon - B Rank
Triple Rashomon - A Rank

Endan - C Rank
Dai Endan - B Rank


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2020)

Architect said:


> Senei Jashu - C Rank
> Senei Ta Jashu - B Rank
> 
> Shadow Clone - B Rank
> ...



And I did say there IS a skill component...that doesn't mean the skill component is always enough to constitute a separate rank.

See: Rasengan and Big Ball Rasengan.


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## Architect (Aug 30, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> And I did say there IS a skill component...that doesn't mean the skill component is always enough to constitute a separate rank.
> 
> See: Rasengan and Big Ball Rasengan.


Huh? I just posted the examples of superior versions having higher rank than original technique.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Architect (Aug 30, 2020)

Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique - C Rank
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson - B Rank


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2020)

@Serene Grace, you do realize Konohamaru's Rasengan and Minato's Rasengan are still called Rasengan in spite of being different in size from the original technique? The fact Lightning Blade does NOT have the same rank as Chidori and a separate entry, in that light, are proof Lightning Blade is a separate technique.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Prince Idonojie (Aug 30, 2020)

The arguments for the diference in rank being legitimate are strong, especially because we have many other examples to point at. The only thing is that we're not shown why Raikiri would necessarily be superior to Chidori... I mean, what does being "honed to the limits" even mean?

I guess we could thus say that if Sasuke honed his Chidori to the limit, it would even be stronger and richer than it had ever been, and Sasuke honing it to the limit would benefit him more than it would Kakashi because Sasuke has stronger chakra.


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## Atlantic Storm (Aug 30, 2020)

In neutral conditions (i.e., used by two identical characters with equal chakra potency and quantity), Raikiri is stronger than Chidori. I've always interpreted the relationship between the two techniques as being something like this: they are essentially the same jutsu, but Raikiri is a Chidori which has been strengthened over time and through practice, hence why it acquired a higher rank. Ranks denote the level of difficulty in learning a technique, not necessarily power (even if they do often correlate); it makes sense that the reason Raikiri is S-rank instead of A-rank is because it's just a Chidori which requires a bit more technical skill to use.

In this sense, I would say that Sasuke at the beginning of part two is actually using Raikiri rather than Chidori by virtue of his mastery over the latter technique—maybe the only reason he calls it Chidori and corrected Deidara when he mistakingly called it Raikiri is out of a sense of pride. Certainly, I don't think anyone would argue that Hebi Sasuke's Chidori was _weaker _than part one Kakashi's Raikiri. At least, not to a significant extent.

To answer the thread's secondary questions: I think Kakashi would win the clash in round one but lose in all subsequent clashes once Sasuke's chakra potency begins receiving passive boosts.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2020)

Atlantic Storm said:


> In neutral conditions (i.e., used by two identical characters with equal chakra potency and quantity), Raikiri is stronger than Chidori. I've always interpreted the relationship between the two techniques as being something like this: they are essentially the same jutsu, but Raikiri is a Chidori which has been strengthened over time and through practice, hence why it acquired a higher rank. Ranks denote the level of difficulty in learning a technique, not necessarily power (even if they do often correlate); it makes sense that the reason Raikiri is S-rank instead of A-rank is because it's just a Chidori which requires a bit more technical skill to use.
> 
> In this sense, I would say that Sasuke at the beginning of part two is actually using Raikiri rather than Chidori by virtue of his mastery over the latter technique—maybe the only reason he calls it Chidori and corrected Deidara when he mistakingly called it Raikiri is out of a sense of pride. Certainly, I don't think anyone would argue that Hebi Sasuke's Chidori was _weaker _than part one Kakashi's Raikiri. At least, not to a significant extent.
> 
> To answer the thread's secondary questions: I think Kakashi would win the clash in round one but lose in all subsequent clashes once Sasuke's chakra potency begins receiving passive boosts.



While I agree with much of what you've said, I have one issue with the Chidori-Deidara comment. Why would Sasuke take pride in calling his technique Chidori when it's still the technique Kakashi Hatake created and taught him (and an inferior one, as we both agree)? I also don't see why P1 Kakashi's Lightning Blade can't be stronger than P2 Base Sasuke's Chidori.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 30, 2020)

Atlantic Storm said:


> In neutral conditions (i.e., used by two identical characters with equal chakra potency and quantity), Raikiri is stronger than Chidori.


Why tho

Literally nothing indicates this


Atlantic Storm said:


> I've always interpreted the relationship between the two techniques as being something like this: they are essentially the same jutsu, but *Raikiri is a Chidori which has been strengthened over time and through practice*


The bold directly contradicts what you yourself just claimed tho


Atlantic Storm said:


> used by two identical characters with equal chakra potency and quantity


In order to "strengthen a technique over time through practice" that would by definition be you not being equal with your opponents use of the same technique dude.

Youre literally saying Practiced Chidori/Raikiri > Unpracticed Chidori/Raikiri to pimp Raikiri above Chidori in general...

Which is a difference between user skill and power

Not technique or mechanical differences


Atlantic Storm said:


> it makes sense that the reason Raikiri is S-rank instead of A-rank is because it's just a Chidori which requires a bit more technical skill to use.


But why tho

Raikiri does exactly nothing that Chidori cannot, Kakashi states the 2 use the exact same methods of chakra creation AND chakra consumption, they look identical, sound identical, perform the exact same task in combat, require the same hand seals, and both can be used as the basis for the creation of other Jutsu (Nagashi, Eiso, Senbon, Katana, Beast Running, Raiden, Kirin)

Aside from Raikiri vaguely being "honed to the limit" per the guides (which similar descriptive language for Chidori is also given both in the guides and the manga) what remotely hints that it requires "greater technical skill to use"


Atlantic Storm said:


> In this sense, I would say that Sasuke at the beginning of part two is actually using Raikiri rather than Chidori by virtue of his mastery over the latter technique


This is also odd considering Sasuke himself outright refutes the notion that his technique should be called CHidori

Tho I do agree with the sentiment

Sasuke is using Raikiri in Part 2...Because hes using Raikiri in Part 1 as well

Because Chidori and Raikiri are the same thing as stated in canon multiple times, he just prefers the formal designation.


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## Atlantic Storm (Aug 30, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> While I agree with much of what you've said, I have one issue with the Chidori-Deidara comment. Why would Sasuke take pride in calling his technique Chidori when it's still the technique Kakashi Hatake created and taught him (and an inferior one, as we both agree)?



I don't think Sasuke took pride in it per se, but I could easily see him seeing Chidori as 'his' technique after he started developing a bunch of variants for it. Chidori Nagashi and Chidorigatana are basically high-level applications of chakra streaming, yet he still chose to name them after their parent technique—in his mind, he probably made the technique his own. Or, at the very least, has stronger ownership of Chidori than he does Raikiri, which he strictly associates with Kakashi (whom he disassociated with as of the end of part one). 

Either way, I don't think semantical pedantry is really applicable here. Sasuke's pride was pretty nonsensical at times. 



> I also don't see why P1 Kakashi's Lightning Blade can't be stronger than P2 Base Sasuke's Chidori.



Hebi Sasuke has more potent chakra and larger quantities of it. In a clash between part one Kakashi's Raikiri and Hebi Sasuke's Chidori, I see either Sasuke edging or the two of them cancelling out.


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## Atlantic Storm (Aug 30, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Why tho
> 
> Literally nothing indicates this
> 
> ...



I understand what you mean and thought about the contradiction when I was writing the post, but couldn't really come up with a better way to phrase the point. For all intents and purposes, when I said Raikiri was Chidori but "strengthened over time and through practice", I meant in a vacuum—it simply exists as a version of Chidori that happens to be slightly sharper, slightly more well-practised etc. The "over time and through practice" is how (in my opinion) it became that way. 



> Youre literally saying Practiced Chidori/Raikiri > Unpracticed Chidori/Raikiri to pimp Raikiri above Chidori in general...
> 
> Which is a difference between user skill and power
> 
> Not technique or mechanical differences



Refer to the above. 

Raikiri can't exist without a skilled user who has pushed the 'limits' of Chidori, so you're right that this does ultimately come down to a difference between user skill and power. However, by definition of being a more 'experienced' Chidori, it is a categorically superior technique even if the actual differences are minute and don't/can't necessarily exist within the context of the manga.




> This is also odd considering Sasuke himself outright refutes the notion that his technique should be called CHidori



When did this happen?


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2020)

Atlantic Storm said:


> I don't think Sasuke took pride in it per se, but I could easily see him seeing Chidori as 'his' technique after he started developing a bunch of variants for it. Chidori Nagashi and Chidorigatana are basically high-level applications of chakra streaming, yet he still chose to name them after their parent technique—in his mind, he probably made the technique his own. Or, at the very least, has stronger ownership of Chidori than he does Raikiri, which he strictly associates with Kakashi (whom he disassociated with as of the end of part one).
> 
> Either way, I don't think semantical pedantry is really applicable here. Sasuke's pride was pretty nonsensical at times



Eh, I disagree. Sasuke and even asked about Kakashi during the BoS encounter IIRC (can't find a scan yet unfortunately). I see Sasuke as a pretty honest dude who's willing to give credit where it's due and if he seriously thought he had achieved Kakashi's Lightning Blade or even surpassed it, he would either call it Lightning Blade or something else entirely.



Atlantic Storm said:


> Hebi Sasuke has more potent chakra and larger quantities of it. In a clash between part one Kakashi's Raikiri and Hebi Sasuke's Chidori, I see either Sasuke edging or the two of them cancelling out.



Eh, I'd be careful with that ''potent chakra'' part if I were you lol. It can be difficult to translate into practice. Agree with the larger quantities part though, but not sure if that's enough to override the A-Rank/S-Rank power distinction. 

Depends. If Sasuke uses the Sage Seal, he'd win. If he doesn't, though? He'd lose.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 30, 2020)

Atlantic Storm said:


> when I said Raikiri was Chidori but "strengthened over time and through practice", I meant in a vacuum—it simply exists as a version of Chidori that happens to be slightly sharper, slightly more well-practised etc.


But literally nothing indicates that Raikiri is sharper or more practiced than Chidori is

the guides (literally the only source of any confusion on the subject) also contradict themsleves on this very topic and refer to them both as interchangeable techniques withing BOTH of the techniques individual entries.

In Chidori, its stated it can be referred to as Raikiri. And In Raikiris, its stated that Raikiri is Chidori that has cut lightning. Chidori itself is what performed the deed that caused 'Raikiri" to be named such


Atlantic Storm said:


> The "over time and through practice" is how (in my opinion) it became that way.


And again

Over time through practice is no longer equal footing 

As one of the users here in your scenario has been giving additional improvement over the other with the same technique

He could call his technique "Taco Tuesday" and its still gonna be the same Jutsu mechanically as Chidori is as stated in the manga and teh guides, bit once you include individual improvement, then and ONLY then will differences in performances be realised.


Atlantic Storm said:


> Raikiri can't exist without a skilled user who has pushed the 'limits' of Chidori, so you're right that this does ultimately come down to a difference between user skill and power


And a difference in user ability isnt at all indicative of a difference in technical strength

Is Sasuke at Part 1 VOTE using a different Jutsu than Chidori because he can stalemate Rasengan from Naruto now as opposed to getting murked like he would have at the Rooftop fight?


Atlantic Storm said:


> However, by definition of being a more 'experienced' Chidori, it is a categorically superior technique even if the actual differences are minute and don't/can't necessarily exist within the context of the manga.


But no tho it isnt

By it being a "more experienced Chidori" the technique itself is no different...The USER is just better with it and more powerful. Thats what "practice" does. It doesnt fundamentally alter the technique in any way.


Atlantic Storm said:


> When did this happen?


When he fought Deidara


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## Blu-ray (Aug 30, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> You made this ''informal nickname'' part up, bro.


...

*"THE LIGHTNING BLADE IS IT'S NICKNAME"*
*"IT'S FORMAL JUTSU NAME IS CHIDORI"*

*Link Removed*






> You're trying to tell me the SAME technique somehow has TWO different Databook entries.


Yes.



> What kind of sense does that make?!


Dunno. Ask whoever compiled the databook.



> Yet they have two separate Databook entries.


Yes. We've established that a million times in this thread already. You know what else we established? Those very entries flat out saying Raikiri is Chidori by another name.



> Unlike you, I actually do read what I cite.


Bruh, how the hell did I quote it if I didn't read it? You sound like a child going "No U." 

Meanwhile, you haven't actually cited anything. I mean, what's there to even actually read? The rank? The fact that it has two entries? There's no actual written text to back up your claims. If there were, you'd have posted them already.



> Define ''nickname''.







> It's a nickname for the jutsu just as Big Ball Rasengan is a nickname for Rasengan.


At this point, it's more than a little obvious that you don't know what a nickname actually is. "Odama Rasengan" was _never_ said to be a nickname of the Rasengan (A bit silly you'd claim that after accusing me of making shit up the very first thing this post.)

Also, dude come on. You can't say you exercise common sense only to spout nonsense like this. How is Big Ball Rasengan, a literal descriptor that refers to the fact that Rasengan is now... a big ball.... a nickname?



> I'll ignore the fact that you just resorted to ad hominem in spite of being a moderator. It is kinda pathetic you did so though.


Acknowledging something sure is a funny way of ignoring it. Not that you'd believe me, but that bit wasn't even aimed at you. I was still on the page of Naruto being a moron and thinking two identical were different because of a name would be a sign of that. While I'm not gonna pretend to be a saint who never calls people morons, I'm gonna call someone that over this of all topics, because I argued in favor of this stance myself not even that long ago.



> Also, the fact they are two different things is supported by them having different names AND different rankings AND different entries.


So I guess the manga and those very entries saying they're the same thing flat out doesn't count then. Then again, you only ever said Kishi's words>my opinion. You never said Kishi's words>your opinion.



> The manga and Databook which...continually distinguish both techniques as separate from each other in the ways cited above.


I love how you just constantly ignore Gai and Chidori's databook entry contradicting you despite the big ass font and bright ass text.


> Too bad it doesn't say what you think it says.


Well pardon me. Didn't know you were a mind reader to know what I was thinking. Afterall, all I did was quote the databook and leave it at that.

But since you're apparently clairvoyant, enlighten me as to what it's actually saying then. I thought it was saying that Chidori is known as Raikiri when Kakashi uses it, seeing as that's literally what was written and all, but apparently I'm wrong so do me a solid and correct me.



> Clearly you don't. You ignored the fact it's also BIGGER than a regular Rasengan. Also, Konohamaru's Rasengan is SMALLER but I notice you don't consider it a separate technique either.


Because it isn't. They're both quite literally the Rasengan, not a variant of it.



> Imagine being this obtuse lmao. Fine, let's use a simpler comparison.
> 
> Do you deny that P1 Sasuke used the same jutsu against Haku as his P2 counterpart did against BoS Naruto?


I'm not being obtuse. You're deliberately conflating different techniques that flat out involve different mechanics (Lightning Body Flicker isn't the regular version anymore than Wind Style Rasengan is the same as regular Rasengan) and using them as a point of comparison between two things that are literally the same.



> Um, it has always been my argument that Lightning Blade is to Chidori as Big Ball Rasengan is to normal Rasengan.
> 
> Where on earth have you been?


_My_ argument is that it is not.


> Too bad those different ranks and entries came from Kishimoto himself. Don't be a hypocrite...


I'm the hypocrite? You're the one going "I pretend I do not see it" when it comes to Gai's words and Chidori's entry saying it's known as Raikiri in Kakashi's hands, despite those also coming from Kishimoto and being far more concrete, given that they're actual direct statements.

You've still not even bothered to post a single quote that directly confirms your claims, just what you _assume_ different entries and ranks imply. You're literally putting that over _what is actually stated._



> I mean, apart from the fact Sasuke corrects Deidara about the jutsu's name and Naruto distinguishes the two separately...


Again, repeating the same falsehoods over and over again will not make them true.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 30, 2020)

Blu-ray said:


> ...
> 
> *"THE LIGHTNING BLADE IS IT'S NICKNAME"*
> *"IT'S FORMAL JUTSU NAME IS CHIDORI"*
> ...


Lold


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2020)

@Blu-ray @WorldsStrongest Yeah, I'm done with you guys. We won't see eye to eye on this.

Hoping we can have more productive conversations in the future...


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 30, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @Blu-ray @WorldsStrongest Yeah, I'm done with you guys. We won't see eye to eye on this.


We were debating?


As Blu pointed out...You havent actually posted anything for your stance. Just harped on and on about "But there are TWO entries tho!" while simultaneously ignoring what BOTH of them say.

Not to mention you ignore what the manga says...Ive directly asked you what you have in defense of Gai LITERALLY SAYING Raikiri = Chidori twice now and youve ducked both times.


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## Blu-ray (Aug 30, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @Blu-ray @WorldsStrongest Yeah, I'm done with you guys. We won't see eye to eye on this.
> 
> Hoping we can have more productive conversations in the future...


If you're gonna ignore what's literally in front of your face again, then we probably won't.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kassididdy956 (Sep 1, 2020)

Prince Idonojie said:


> The arguments for the diference in rank being legitimate are strong, especially because we have many other examples to point at. The only thing is that we're not shown why Raikiri would necessarily be superior to Chidori... I mean, what does being "honed to the limits" even mean?
> 
> I guess we could thus say that if Sasuke honed his Chidori to the limit, it would even be stronger and richer than it had ever been, and Sasuke honing it to the limit would benefit him more than it would Kakashi because Sasuke has stronger chakra.


Look at pain fight raikiri and raikage fight chidori. Raikiri is a sleek/slim blade, chidori is an un refined ball of lightning


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## deltaniner (Sep 1, 2020)

Okay, I read this thread as someone who originally believed they weren't the same thing...

and I have changed my mind.

It has been made abundantly clear by @WorldsStrongest and others through manga and databook pages with statements from characters _who would very much know what they're talking about_, that Raikiri and Chidori are the same jutsu in every way that matters.

And my opinion of Aegon Targaryen as a debater has been substantially lowered.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 1, 2020)

deltaniner said:


> Okay, I read this thread as someone who originally believed they weren't the same thing...
> 
> and I have changed my mind.
> 
> ...



Funny, I've provided manga and Databook pages suggesting the two are separate (including the fact, y'know, they have separate entries and rankings - and both Naruto and Sasuke make a distinction between the two) but y'all keep on arguing against it. If you wanted to argue Sasuke somehow rivaled Kakashi's superior technique with an inferior one, that was one thing (I disagree but I can see the logic behind it). This, on the other hand? It's flat out illogical.


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 1, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Funny, I've provided manga and Databook pages suggesting the two are separate


No you havent

And me and @Blu-ray have exposed you for such lies

In the exact DB entries you’re referring to, In BOTH OF THEM BTW, its stated they are the same Jutsu


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 1, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> . If you wanted to argue Sasuke somehow rivaled Kakashi's superior technique with an inferior one, that was one thing (I disagree but I can see the logic behind it). This, on the other hand? It's flat out illogical.


Ah yes

Its flat out illogical to take Gai and Kakashis and Hiruzens and Sasukes and Narutos and the databooks and Deidaras word that Chidori = Raikiri

Just like its also illogical to believe Kakashi when he says they use the exact same chakra to use. 

And its illogical to think that them using the EXACT SAME HAND SIGNS means anything.

As opposed to whatever the fuck it is youre doing that’s perfectly logical Im sure

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 1, 2020)

Id rep But im capped


deltaniner said:


> Okay, I read this thread as someone who originally believed they weren't the same thing...
> 
> and I have changed my mind.
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 1, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> No you havent
> 
> And me and @Blu-ray have exposed you for such lies
> 
> In the exact DB entries you’re referring to, In BOTH OF THEM BTW, its stated they are the same Jutsu



They are the same jutsu in the same sense Rasengan and Big Ball Rasengan are the same jutsu. Proof they need the same amount of chakra? Isn't Kakashi supposed to have _more_ chakra than P1 Sasuke anyway (and by your standards especially)?


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## Bob74h (Sep 1, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> They are the same jutsu in the same sense Rasengan and Big Ball Rasengan are the same jutsu. Proof they need the same amount of chakra? Isn't Kakashi supposed to have more chakra than P1 Sasuke anyway (and by your standards especially)?



What evidence suggests that the raikiri is stronger or a upgraded version of the chidori?


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 1, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> They are the same jutsu in the same sense Rasengan and Big Ball Rasengan are the same jutsu


No

No they are not

And @Blu-ray already shut down this argument


Blu-ray said:


> At this point, it's more than a little obvious that you don't know what a nickname actually is. "Odama Rasengan" was _never_ said to be a nickname of the Rasengan (A bit silly you'd claim that after accusing me of making shit up the very first thing this post.)
> 
> Also, dude come on. You can't say you exercise common sense only to spout nonsense like this. How is Big Ball Rasengan, a literal descriptor that refers to the fact that Rasengan is now... a big ball.... a nickname?


Why are you like this?

Sincerely why are you this obtuse and incapable of admitting that youre wrong here (or ever tbh)?

Youd genuinely rather not post evidence and stonewall than change your opinions?


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Proof they need the same amount of chakra?


*Link Removed*

I have posted the scan actually 3 times now

Do NOT act like thats the first time youve seen that scan in this thread dude 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Isn't Kakashi supposed to have _more_ chakra than P1 Sasuke anyway (


Doesnt have a fucking thing to do with what I just said

Kakashi states Chidori and Raikiri = the same chakra cost

And yes, Kakashi has more chakra than Sasuke does in Part 1

Thats why kakashi can use it MORE than Sasuek can 

What even is this argument dude


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 1, 2020)

Kassididdy956 said:


> Look at pain fight raikiri and raikage fight chidori. Raikiri is a sleek/slim blade, chidori is an un refined ball of lightning


No

No this isnt true
*Link Removed* and *Link Removed* *Link Removed* are pictured BOTH large and small multiple times

It just has to do with what Kishi is feeling like drawing that day or how the characters are moving in that specific instance

Theres no difference between how they consistently look and perform

Cuz they are the same Jutsu

Plus...*Link Removed* *Link Removed*...Meaning if the user felt like it, they could make EITHER one larger or smaller. Per the creators words.

So physical differences are SUPER not an argument even ignoring the inconsistencies...As Kakashi himself states they can look however the hell the owner wants them to look and be as big as needed.


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 1, 2020)

Bob74h2 said:


> What evidence suggests that the raikiri is stronger or a upgraded version of the chidori?


Nothing

Literally nothing

They do the same thing in combat and Chidori is the tech with better feats between users of peer standing if people wanna go that route

Making the Raikage Bleed through his Lightning armor is > anything Raikiri has ever done unless you reference like DMS or post war kakashi

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bob74h (Sep 1, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Nothing
> 
> Literally nothing
> 
> ...



''Making the Raikage Bleed through his Lightning armor is > anything Raikiri has ever done unless you reference like DMS or post war kakashi''

The power an individual showcases with a technique does not correlate to that move's average capability.
That's like saying the eight gates technique is worse than magnet release because lee lost to gaara or like saying the edo tensei jutsu is inferior paper bombs because orochimaru's summons got blown apart by said bombs


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## Mawt (Sep 1, 2020)

Chidori = Raikiri as other posters have explained here

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 1, 2020)

Bob74h2 said:


> The power an individual showcases with a technique does not correlate to that move's average capability.


Thats my point tho

Thats why I said "between peer users"


WorldsStrongest said:


> Chidori is the tech with better feats between users of peer standing



I didnt reference something like Sasuke vaping an entire village sized meteor with Chidori as his Rinnegan version because that doesnt make any sense.


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## The Great One (Sep 1, 2020)

Can we just agree that both are shit techniques?

What if some wind user with A ranked wind tech blasts them while they are running like retard?

Hell, only reason Sasuke did not lost his arm during FKS clash because Naruto did not amped his Rasengan with wind.

And this shit which is bright enough to light up an entire city is somehow called "An assassination technique".

Snipers across world instantly died after reading this bs.


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## Bob74h (Sep 1, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Thats my point tho
> 
> Thats why I said "between peer users"
> 
> ...



''Thats why I said "between peer users"
So were on the same page then.


It's litterally stated that the raikiri and chidori are the same, even if the raikiri was a different technique hypothetically then why would kakashi teach sasuke, a weaker version of his own move.
does aegon realize how stupid this sounds?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Android (Sep 1, 2020)

deltaniner said:


> And my opinion of Aegon Targaryen as a debater has been substantially lowered.




Aegon, i swear dude I'm not even making fun of you or anything but god damn it man you need a big ass senzu bean for this one.

Reactions: Like 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 3, 2020)

So @Aegon Targaryen you gonna hmu with what exactly you have to contest *Link Removed* In which we are literally told Chidori = Raikiri by the life long rival of the creator of "both"? And Hiruzen also confirms this?

Or what?

Been like a week since I asked you for one very simple thing 

Like really man itd just be cool if you could articulate even WHY you have a premise...Like on what basis do you blatantly disagree with canon here.

And while youre at it...Tell me why you also find a need to argue with the DBs... ...As has been pointed out to you multiple times in this thread...

Also what your counter is to them having *Link Removed*...*Link Removed* *Link Removed*...Same function in battle...Same appearance...And just blatantly being the same Jutsu per literally every metric under the sun.

Including the legend for which the technique is named after...Where there is ONE sword...TWO names for the SAME sword...Dude doesnt get a new sword.


			
				Legend of Tachibana Dōsetsu said:
			
		

> Dōsetsu was in possession of a famous sword called Chidori (千鳥, A Thousand Birds). One day, while he was still a young man, he was taking shelter under a tree, as it was raining. Suddenly, a bolt of lightning struck him. However, Dōsetsu used his Chidori to cut the Thunder God inside the lightning bolt, allowing him to survive. After this incident, he renamed his Chidori to Raikiri (雷切, Lightning Cutter)



You need to prove your claims in a debate bruh...Or else they are literally just inane ramblings with no substance.

And do try to NOT post conjecture or headcanon. I want scans kiddo.

I just want ONE canon leg for you to stand on...In the face of my 50 legs...

Ganbare


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## Illusory (Sep 3, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Same jutsus, before muh s rank arguments come, nukite is B rank and we all know nukite shits on Raikiri by feats and by hype



1-finger-nukite, yeah. Not too sure about all the others though.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 3, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> So @Aegon Targaryen you gonna hmu with what exactly you have to contest *Link Removed* In which we are literally told Chidori = Raikiri by the life long rival of the creator of "both"? And Hiruzen also confirms this?
> 
> Or what?
> 
> ...



Find someone else to bother, WorldsWrongest.

It's not my responsibility to educate you.


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 3, 2020)

Like bruh @Aegon Targaryen 

If youve got no evidence...All you gotta do is say this



deltaniner said:


> Okay, I read this thread as someone who originally believed they weren't the same thing...
> 
> and I have changed my mind.
> 
> It has been made abundantly clear by @WorldsStrongest and others through manga and databook pages with statements from characters _who would very much know what they're talking about_, that Raikiri and Chidori are the same jutsu in every way that matters.


Delta here was in your exact shoes...Bought they were 2 separate techs...Then after ACCEPTING NEW INFORMATION (which Im sure youre capable of doing) altered that opinion. Unless youd rather just stonewall and live in denial.

But if youve got new information with which to share with ME...By all means go for it.

Literally asking you here

Again


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 3, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Find someone else to bother, WorldsWrongest.


I dont see any scans in there bud 

I only asked for one 


WorldsStrongest said:


> I just want ONE canon leg for you to stand on...In the face of my 50 legs...



You wanna try that again?

Prove to me and everyone else here in this thread that youre not arguing just to argue.

Prove you have ANY canon info to base your argument on beyond headcanon and bias.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 3, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Like bruh @Aegon Targaryen
> 
> If youve got no evidence...All you gotta do is say this
> 
> ...



I've already shared my evidence. I've already explained why your side is wrong. I have nothing else to do and nothing else to prove.

Now, stop following me around and go pester someone else.


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 3, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I've already shared my evidence


As have I

Yet Ive reposted it several times for your convenience

Just did it 5 minutes ago, and I posted multiple scans in said post.

So it should be zero trouble for you to go grab 1 individual scan that you claim to already have, that refutes everything I just posted, and merely post it a second time.

Not asking for an essay here champ...Just an image...Thats it.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> I've already explained why your side is wrong


You havent tho

Not with any actual evidence

Just your own conjecture

Which isnt how you debate against canon evidence...Which Ive posted in abundance. 

Like I said.

Canon information from you please. All I want


Aegon Targaryen said:


> stop following me around


Im not?

I just tagged you

I was here first

Howd I follow you 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Prove that you have a single brain cell (or more) to me first.


Im literally asking you to have a fucking civil discussion here and you fly in with insults needlessly 

Nice


Aegon Targaryen said:


> you don't speak for everyone, WorldsWeakest.


I dont give a flying fuck about everyone

Im asking YOU SPECIFICALLY to prove your arguments

Or admit you were wrong, as people before you have already done.

Its really not hard


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 3, 2020)

@Aegon Targaryen still waiting bud



One scan

Or a concession

Really not that hard


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## Bob74h (Sep 3, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Like bruh @Aegon Targaryen
> 
> If youve got no evidence...All you gotta do is say this
> 
> ...



''Delta here was in your exact shoes...Bought they were 2 separate techs...Then after ACCEPTING NEW INFORMATION (which Im sure youre capable of doing) altered that opinion''

Same thing here.
I thought raikiri was different than chidori but evidence suggested otherwise so i altered my opinion on the matter.
do not know, What's so bad about admitting that you were wrong like how will you ever learn anything if you refuse to accept any new information

Reactions: Like 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 3, 2020)

Bob74h2 said:


> ''Delta here was in your exact shoes...Bought they were 2 separate techs...Then after ACCEPTING NEW INFORMATION (which Im sure youre capable of doing) altered that opinion''
> 
> Same thing here.
> I thought raikiri was different than chidori but evidence suggested otherwise, I altered my opinion on the matter


See @Aegon Targaryen

Its cool that you were wrong

People make mistakes

All you gotta do is say " I was wrong I concede" instead of stonewalling canon you dont like

Its not hard

Or post canon evidence of your own to back your claim

Just gotta pick one


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## Bob74h (Sep 3, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> See @Aegon Targaryen
> 
> Its cool that you were wrong
> 
> ...



It's fine to be wrong afterall making mistakes allows you to learn from said mistakes and become smarter in the process, It's apart of learning.

''stonewalling canon you dont like''
Any evidence would do at this point really but judging from the information presented, it seems as if there's no evidence in his favor.

''All you gotta do is say " I was wrong I concede''
It makes him look really arrogant that he cannot admit when he's at fault and judging from his previous remarks, he seems to be rather disingenuous eg accusing you guys of slander tactics as a example


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

Bob74h2 said:


> It makes him look really arrogant that he cannot admit when he's at fault and judging from his previous remarks, he seems to be rather disingenuous



Says the guy who argued Darui > Tobirama lmao.


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## MYGod000 (Sep 4, 2020)

after reading what I said in this thread, and reading the evidence...i think we can all agree that Raikiri=Chidori.

So, I'd Like to retract my statements about Raikiri being superior to Chidori.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Says the guy who argued Darui > Tobirama lmao.



Darui did better against the kinkaku brothers then tobirama did, so it's a fairy rational position to hold really

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Says the guy who argued Darui > Tobirama lmao.


Still waiting chief

If youve got the time to reply to other people in this very thread on the exact same topic of discussion you can either concede to me or grab 1 scan


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Still waiting chief
> 
> If youve got the time to reply to other people in this very thread on the exact same topic of discussion you can either concede to me or grab 1 scan



I think he gave up debating you at this point.
Instead of addressing people's arguments, he goes but you did this like that is a counter argument to anything


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## Marvel (Sep 4, 2020)

10 pages for a question that can be answered with one scan?


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

We have this debate like every 3 months

It’s nothing new

Its the same people who nevrr accept they are wrong on the matter in every thread, and every time the thread is made more and more undecided people realize they are the same thing. Same with a few people who thought they were different going in, after seeing all the information, the reasonable folk change their mind.


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## Android (Sep 4, 2020)

This thread is the end of the Raikiri > Chidori myth i guess.


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## deltaniner (Sep 4, 2020)

I just thought of a new reason they are the same thing:

If Raikiri is the superior jutsu, then _why_ did Sasuke never upgrade to it? They're the same nature release, and have identical methods of attack. If Raikiri is better, then why would Sasuke never go "Well, Chidori ain't doing it. Let's see if Raikiri can!" If Raikiri is better, why would Sasuke stick to Chidori?

It's simple: Raikiri isn't better, they're just the same, and Sasuke says he doesn't use Raikiri out of a sense of respect for his first sensei.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

deltaniner said:


> It's simple: Raikiri isn't better, they're just the same



You say this, and then you say...this:



deltaniner said:


> and Sasuke says he doesn't use Raikiri out of a sense of respect for his first sensei.



It's like y'all are having some sort of cognitive dissonance, really. Chidori _already is Kakashi Hatake's technique_, he's the one who taught it to Sasuke. Sasuke is not disrespecting his sensei *by using the technique his sensei taught him *lmao, regardless of whether you're right or wrong. If y'all accept Sasuke just doesn't use Lightning Blade because he hasn't mastered that yet, these weird leaps in logic would need not be performed.

And I notice _no one _has really come up with a convincing explanation (including WorldsWrongest) for why the same technique has two separate Databook entries and ranks. Shadow Clone and Multi Shadow Clone Jutsu have two separate entries and ranks in spite of also being the ''same'', for comparison - ditto with Rasengan and Big Ball Rasengan in DB3 (although DB4 puts them all together). You can bitch and moan and whine about how Databooks suck and what not, but in the end, Kishimoto distinguished the two jutsu.


Hellraiser said:


> Aegon, i swear dude I'm not even making fun of you or anything but god damn it man you need a big ass senzu bean for this one.



I...don't. Dude just admitted yesterday that he still had a high opinion of me lmao.


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## Android (Sep 4, 2020)

deltaniner said:


> I just thought of a new reason they are the same thing:
> 
> If Raikiri is the superior jutsu, then _why_ did Sasuke never upgrade to it? They're the same nature release, and have identical methods of attack. If Raikiri is better, then why would Sasuke never go "Well, Chidori ain't doing it. Let's see if Raikiri can!" If Raikiri is better, why would Sasuke stick to Chidori?
> 
> It's simple: Raikiri isn't better, they're just the same, and Sasuke says he doesn't use Raikiri out of a sense of respect for his first sensei.


Even current Sasuke still calls it Chidori.

Like do people think that Sasuke never managed to "upgrade" his Chidori to "Raikiri level" ?


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## Marvel (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> WorldsWrongest


Lmao nice to see you’re on the bandwagon


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## deltaniner (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> It's like y'all are having some sort of cognitive dissonance, really. Chidori _already is Kakashi Hatake's technique_, he's the one who taught it to Sasuke. Sasuke is not disrespecting his sensei *by using the technique his sensei taught him *lmao, regardless of whether you're right or wrong. If y'all accept Sasuke just doesn't use Lightning Blade because he hasn't mastered that yet, these weird leaps in logic would need not be performed.


Good _God._

I worded it like that, to insinuate that Sasuke didn't call it Raikiri out of respect for _what Kakashi accomplished with it_. As in, "Kakashi had cut lightning with Chidori, Sasuke hadn't."


Aegon Targaryen said:


> I...don't. Dude just admitted yesterday that he still had a high opinion of me lmao.


Good lie.

I said I _used_ to have a relatively high opinion of you.

That has changed.


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## deltaniner (Sep 4, 2020)

Hellraiser said:


> Even current Sasuke still calls it Chidori.
> 
> Like do people think that Sasuke never managed to "upgrade" his Chidori to "Raikiri level" ?


_Exactly_.

It's out of a sense of respect for Kakashi he doesn't refer to it as Raikiri.

Is it that hard for people to grasp? Are they that caught up in "Lol, Sasugay is so arrogant and stupid," fanon crap?


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

deltaniner said:


> Good _God, _you're dense



Nah, your argument is just trash. Gutter trash.



deltaniner said:


> I worded it like that, to insinuate that Sasuke didn't call it Raikiri out of respect for _what Kakashi accomplished with it_. As in, "Kakashi had cut lightning with Chidori, Sasuke hadn't."



Cool. 



deltaniner said:


> Good lie.
> 
> I said I _used_ to have a relatively high opinion of you.
> 
> That has changed.



Yes, you're clearly proving how little you care about me.


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## deltaniner (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Cool.


Concession accepted.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Yes, you're clearly proving how little you care about me.


So, you _don't_ want me to respond to your arguments?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

deltaniner said:


> Concession accepted.
> 
> So, you _don't_ want me to respond to your arguments?



1. I'm sorry, can you read? Where did I concede? I just said ''cool'', as in I get what you're saying. I never said I agreed with it. 

2. I mean, quite truthfully, my respect for you is so low that I don't particularly care either way.


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## deltaniner (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> 2. I mean, quite truthfully, my respect for you is so low that I don't particularly care either way.





Aegon Targaryen said:


> Yes, you're clearly proving how little you care about me.


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Hellraiser said:


> This thread is the end of the Raikiri > Chidori myth i guess.


For another 3 months at best sadly 

Then I promise you mad scientist or aegon or shazam make the exact same damn thread with the same tired and debunked arguments like something has changed since this thread.

Mark your calendars 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> You say this, and then you say...this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So am I getting that scan or what? Been like 24 hours now.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Nah, your argument is just trash. Gutter trash.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Aegon Targaryen said:


> 1. I'm sorry, can you read? Where did I concede? I just said ''cool'', as in I get what you're saying. I never said I agreed with it.
> 
> 2. I mean, quite truthfully, my respect for you is so low that I don't particularly care either way.




This is a lot of typing to everyone else in this thread besides me my man

Gonna concede instead maybe?


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> For another 3 months at best sadly
> 
> Then I promise you mad scientist or aegon or shazam make the exact same damn thread with the same tired and debunked arguments like something has changed since this thread.
> 
> ...



1. You couldn't debunk anything. 

2. You already have.

3. No.


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

deltaniner said:


> I just thought of a new reason they are the same thing:
> 
> If Raikiri is the superior jutsu, then _why_ did Sasuke never upgrade to it?


He never upgrades to it because he was using it from the start 

Gai tells us as much 

*Link Removed* 

Ducks stay ducking tho I guess


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> 1. You couldn't debunk anything.


Debunked you this entire thread actually

The fact you cant even put forth a single piece of conflicting evidence, at my personal fucking request, and instead do nothing but shitpost and tag and bait me in other threads rather than admitting you were in the wrong in this one is all very telling of that fact.

Its also why like 4 people who were on your side of the debate have since agreed with my stance after reading this thread

Cuz your arguments (or lack thereof) are trash

Name one person you convinced in this thread 

Go on


Aegon Targaryen said:


> 2. You already have.


This makes no sense

But okay


Aegon Targaryen said:


> 3. No.


No to posting evidence to back your claims as is expected of anyone in any argument they find themselves in anywhere?

Or no to posting a concession?

Cuz you owe me one or the other at this point

And Ive asked for one or the other multiple times


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

Kakashi's Lighting Blade _is_ Chidori in the same way Naruto's Big Ball Rasengan is Rasengan - it's just a stronger version.


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## ThirdRidoku (Sep 4, 2020)

Lol.

You guys do realize that Kage Bunshins are B rank, but multi kage bunshins are A rank ?

They are the same technique. What's different. Well obviously you need to create an even split of your chakra for each additional clone.


Jutsu difficulty is a measure of how difficult the chakra control is.

Raikiri has a higher rank because while it IS  chidori , kakashi obviously took the shape control to a higher level then the basic chidori.

An increase in shape control correlates to an increase in a ninjutsu's poower , this was stated in the third databook. 

Chidori was supposed to be Raiton: rasenshuriken, kakashi just couldnt combine his nature with the shape control necessary to make rasengan.

He mastered his nature but not the shape control.

Raiton rasenshuriken> raikri > chidori in terms of shape manipulation.

As for power , that depends on more than just control , it would vary between users because of differences in chakra potency and stamina.


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Kakashi's Lighting Blade _is_ Chidori in the same way Naruto's Big Ball Rasengan is Rasengan


Youve been debunked on this line of thinking literally 3 times now

By multiple people



Blu-ray said:


> At this point, it's more than a little obvious that you don't know what a nickname actually is. "Odama Rasengan" was _never_ said to be a nickname of the Rasengan (A bit silly you'd claim that after accusing me of making shit up the very first thing this post.)
> 
> Also, dude come on. You can't say you exercise common sense only to spout nonsense like this. How is Big Ball Rasengan, a literal descriptor that refers to the fact that Rasengan is now... a big ball.... a nickname?





WorldsStrongest said:


> Except thats not the same at all
> 
> As Raikiri and Chidori are in no way different in size or power or mechanics or creation
> 
> ...


Stop reposting your inane conjecture and silly mental gymnastics comparisons and post a SHRED of canon evidence to back your logic 

Or concede


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Oh look

Someone else who thinks its cool to come in here and post headcanon as if its fact

Greeeeeat



ThirdRidoku said:


> Jutsu difficulty is a measure of how difficult the chakra control is.


No actually its not

Its inconsistent as all hell what Jutsu ranks mean

Whats more difficult to control?

A basic Rasengan

Or 30 Cho Odama Rasengans all amplified by SM and while using multiple Kage Bunshin all at the same time?

Cuz guess what?

They share the same fucking rank of difficulty in the Guides

Jutsu ranks are so fucking inconsistent that they are no better than attribute stats man


ThirdRidoku said:


> Raikiri has a higher rank because while it IS chidori , kakashi obviously took the shape control to a higher level then the basic chidori.


Based on what

Literally based on what

Because not a thing indicates this and there a BOAT LOAD of shit to contradict it


ThirdRidoku said:


> raikri > chidori in terms of shape manipulation.


Yay fanfic

Gonna ask you to prove this again


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Debunked you this entire thread actually



You didn't debunk shit. Saying ''it doesn't matter'' isn't debunking.



WorldsStrongest said:


> The fact you cant even put forth a single piece of conflicting evidence



Ah, yes, me repeating over and over again how the technique is treated separately in-universe by characters and in the fucking Databooks isn't ''conflicting evidence'' now. But of course. That separate rank and entry are for no reason at all. 

Kishi just wasted his name giving Lightning Blade its own description and rank relative to Chidori.



WorldsStrongest said:


> at my personal fucking request, and instead do nothing but shitpost and tag and bait me in other threads rather than admitting you were in the wrong in this one is all very telling of that fact



If I don't think I'm wrong, why would I ''admit'' I'm wrong? 



WorldsStrongest said:


> Its also why like 4 people who were on your side of the debate have since agreed with my stance after reading this thread



Sucks to be them.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Cuz your arguments (or lack thereof) are trash
> 
> Name one person you convinced in this thread
> 
> ...



I owe you nothing.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

See the issue? When @ThirdRidoku or I DO post proof from Kishimoto, the dude starts whining about inconsistencies or how it doesn't count because he can't logically grasp how it works. This dude ran away from every debate we've had in the past and I can guarantee you he will make another run for it in two days. If he doesn't, Imma change my profile picture...


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Kakashi's Lighting Blade _is_ Chidori in the same way Naruto's Big Ball Rasengan is Rasengan - it's just a stronger version.



Post one piece of evidence suggesting that the raikiri is different than the chidori.
You can even use the games or the anime as a source because having anything in regards to proof would help your case

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> You didn't debunk shit. Saying ''it doesn't matter'' isn't debunking.


No

But posting a shit load of scans and evidence is

Which Ive done here


WorldsStrongest said:


> So @Aegon Targaryen you gonna hmu with what exactly you have to contest *Link Removed* In which we are literally told Chidori = Raikiri by the life long rival of the creator of "both"? And Hiruzen also confirms this?
> 
> Or what?
> 
> ...


And I literally asked you to reply to it and you wont

So you know what Im gonna throw in your fucking face right now?

Exactly what you just said  

"Saying it doesnt matter isnt debunking"

So I suggest you get to work on that post Ive asked you to make like 10 times now homes 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> me repeating over and over again how the technique is treated separately in-universe by characters


Which it isnt

At all

Post the scans 

Like you were told to do about a dozen times now

Ive posted multitudes of scans of them being referred to interchangeably including in Chidoris debut chapter. WHich is backed by Gai, Kakashi and Hiruzen.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> in the fucking Databooks isn't ''conflicting evidence''


The DBs literally refer to them interchanagably in BOTH JUTSUS ENTRIES

So yes

Yes the Databooks are conflicting evidence 

Ive posted the scans and excerpts for this multiple times as well


Aegon Targaryen said:


> That separate rank and entry are for no reason at all.


COR SM Barrage shares the same rank as Basic Rasengan

There are subsets of FTG techniques that still all use FTG that are also ranked lower than S Rank yet DO MORE than a basic FTG port does

Among MULTITUDES of other already given examples

1000 sharks sharing the same rank as 1 SHARK MISSILE, A technique that requires 2,000 KBs sharing the same rank as a single KB Jutsu...

DB ranks are trash

And if they are your only argument (which they seem to be) then youve got nothing here

And again, the "separate entry" also doesnt matter as IN BOTH OF THEM the 2 techniques are referred to interchangeably 

You have been shown and told this multiple times


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Kishi just wasted his name giving Lightning Blade its own description and rank relative to Chidori.


Clearly he did considering in both entries he contradicts himself and calls Chidori Raikiri and Raikiri Chidori 

Still waiting for your counter to his at all btw


Aegon Targaryen said:


> If I don't think I'm wrong, why would I ''admit'' I'm wrong?


Due to the fact that you have no evidence and I do?

Actually coming out and *admitting* youre wrong is really just a fucking formality at this point 

No one thinks youre right


Aegon Targaryen said:


> I owe you nothing.


Apparently youd rather be wrong and just shit post and waste both your time as well as mine than say 3 simple words

"I was wrong"

Or post a scan


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> No
> 
> But posting a shit load of scans and evidence is
> 
> ...



Imagine being so pissy over something so stupid. You really need to grow up.

The Databooks aren't conflicting evidence, kiddo.

@ThirdRidoku and I just pointed out how Lightning Blade is Chidori but better.

Now sit down and let the adults talk.


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> The DBs literally refer to them interchanagably in BOTH JUTSUS ENTRIES



Just ignore the evidence in favor of your own opinion and litterally anyone who was on this guy's side no longer is due to how objectively incorrect he is.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Imagine being so pissy over something so stupid. You really need to grow up.
> 
> The Databooks aren't conflicting evidence, kiddo.
> 
> ...



It's litterally stated that the raikiri and chidori are the same thing in the databooks themselves.

''I just pointed out how Lightning Blade is Chidori but better''
Source?


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> See the issue? When @ThirdRidoku or I DO post proof from Kishimoto


Neither you or @ThirdRidoku posted any canon information my guy

Do point me to that link in Third's post if you could be so kind

Or any of the last half dozen shitposts youve made in here


Aegon Targaryen said:


> the dude starts whining about inconsistencies or how it doesn't count because he can't logically grasp how it works


So youre gonna claim its NOT inconsistent that Rasengan and SM COR Barrage + Multiple KBs share the same rank?

Youre gonna pretend that makes any amount of fucking sense?



Aegon Targaryen said:


> This dude ran away from every debate we've had in the past


Its funny tho cuz this is actually what you do

And what youve been doing this entire thread

And literally everyone here has watched you do it for the past 24 hours

I am literally asking you to debate me and you wont do it

But sure

Im the one running away 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> If he doesn't, Imma change my profile picture...


The fuck is this gonna do 

This supposed to be a bet

Kay fine

Lets make a fucking bet then, money where your mouth is time kiddo.

Ill change my username to "WorldsWrongest" *for a week* if you actually post canon evidence that refutes what Ive already posted like I asked you to like 10 times already.

I want a piece of information FROM CANON that literally states "Chidori IS NOT Raikiri"

Because I have MULTIPLE SCANS that state they are one in the same including DB scans as well as manga panels.

So for every one of those scans, I want 1 scan from you that says the exact opposite. So you owe me 3 scans for you to win this bet.

Do that, and Ill change my username.

If you dont do this, then you need to concede that you were wrong in this debate and change your profile picture to a duck for an entire week, and whenever anyone asks why, you need to tell them "Cuz its all I do when Worlds asks me to debate"

Shall we shake on it?


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> The Databooks aren't conflicting evidence, kiddo.


Yes they are

And if you cant admit that then youre incredibly dishonest


Aegon Targaryen said:


> @ThirdRidoku and I just pointed out how Lightning Blade is Chidori but better.


No

No you fucking didnt

Neither have you have posted any information that backs this

You both refer to the DB entreis, and as Ive already rammed down your throat like 10 times now, those EXACT SAME DBS REFER TO THEM AS EQUAL TECHNIQUES IN BOTH ENTRIES.

SO THOSE ENTRIES DO NOT HELP YOUR POSITION ANY MORE THAN THEY DO MINE


Aegon Targaryen said:


> sit down and let the adults talk.


Ive been asking you to talk for 24 hours now and you wont

Now what do you think about my bet proposal?


WorldsStrongest said:


> Lets make a fucking bet then, money where your mouth is time kiddo.
> 
> Ill change my username to "WorldsWrongest" *for a week* if you actually post canon evidence that refutes what Ive already posted like I asked you to like 10 times already.
> 
> ...


In or out kiddo?

Money where your mouth is

We will have 4 people (2 you sign off on and 2 I sign off on) officiate and monitor said bet


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Neither you or @ThirdRidoku posted any canon information my guy
> 
> Do point me to that link in Third's post if you could be so kind
> 
> ...



''posted any canon information my guy''
I'm wondering if he has any evidence let alone canon evidence.
Having any source would at least give him some leg to stand on however at his current state, He barely has a cane to stand on.



''I am literally asking you to debate me and you wont do it, but sure Im the one running away''

He has no argument hence why he's resorting to slander tactics and he called you delusional one yet he's the ignoring evidence ounds rather hypocritical to me.


''I want a piece of information FROM CANON that literally states "Chidori IS NOT Raikiri''
Again any form of proof would do at this point considering how little validity he has as of right now.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> So youre gonna claim its NOT inconsistent that Rasengan and SM COR Barrage + Multiple KBs share the same rank?
> 
> Youre gonna pretend that makes any amount of fucking sense?



It came from the author. You can argue if it makes any amount of sense or not, but his words > yours.


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> It came from the author. You can argue if it makes any amount of sense or not, but his words > yours.



Still waiting on that proof.


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> It came from the author


The author also says Chidori = Raikiri multiple times

Dont see you on that bandwagon tho


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Yes they are
> 
> And if you cant admit that then youre incredibly dishonest
> 
> ...



No, the Databooks don't refer to them as ''equal techniques''. You just made that up.

I don't have to do anything for you. Go pester someone else with your ''bets''.


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## ThirdRidoku (Sep 4, 2020)

.


WorldsStrongest said:


> No actually its not
> 
> Its inconsistent as all hell what Jutsu ranks mean
> 
> ...



Maintaining shadow clones after they are created doesnt require chakra control. Just stamina

Odama rasengan doesnt require an increase in chakra control. Naruto summoned gamabunta without any increase in chakra control because he boosted himself with kyuubi chakra. Unironically , naruto was doing the same thing when he used Odama rasengan onshoten itachi. But he still needed three hands to make it.

This is because techniques chakra control requirement often work on a chakra percentage. See chapter 90.

Sm boosts power not chakra control.

Lol read the Db3 section that explains jutsu difficulty. Its chakra control.

Obviously everyone has different specializations  and aptitudes. The ranks give a general ranking , but within the same ranking some chakra control can be easier for some and harder for others.

Rock lee finds ninjutsu and genjutsu difficult but can open the inner gates , something kakashi called him a genius for.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Based on what
> 
> Literally based on what
> 
> Because not a thing indicates this and there a BOAT LOAD of shit to contradict



Lel. Chidori is A rank. Raikiri is S rank.

S rank> A.
If the jutsu is exactly the same then no reason for difference in rank and double entry.

When a jutsu gets variants it's either because its being boosted by a more potent chakra or because there is a different shape or chakra control application. 

Again don't conflate power with control though. Power correlates to control but also correlates to stamina and potency.

Raikiri requires a more precise shape control which would make it more powerful than chidori all other things held equal.

The same way multi kage bunshin> kage bunshin in rank because dividing yourself in two equal pieces is obviously easier than perfectly dividing yourself into 100 equal pieces simultaneously


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> It came from the author. You can argue if it makes any amount of sense or not, but his words > yours.



The databooks themselves state the chidori and raikiri are the same thing so even your own source disagrees with you

Reactions: Like 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> .
> 
> 
> Maintaining shadow clones after they are created doesnt require chakra control. Just stamina
> ...



Ssh. Don't pester WorldsWrongest with facts.

This guy is so arrogant he's willing to rant and rave about how Kishimoto doesn't know what he's talking about even though both th manga and the Databooks back up this conclusion.


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## Abyssdarkfire (Sep 4, 2020)

On same strength combatants Nukite>Raikiri>Chidori. However depending on Charcter progression A3 Nukite>BoS Saskue Chidori > BoS Kakashi Raikiri


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> Maintaining shadow clones after they are created doesnt require chakra control


Literally irrelevant to my point dude

Arguing semantics at this point 

Each clone using SM requires that clone to have INSANE chakra control for them to even ENTER SM in the first place

Then on top of that, then taking a Rasengan and amping it to be fucking huge is already ABOVE A ranked difficulty by fucking definition

Yet splitting your chakra 30 ways first, then having each fraction enter SM, then having each clone use a SM amped version of an above A ranked Jutsu NOT being above A rank is asinine

Period

Full stop

The addition of SM and NE balancing ALONE would merit that being in an entire other class of Jutsu per Shikakus word and also common fucking sense

SM would easily meet all the requirements of an S-Ranked Jutsu on its own merit considering its risks (just attempting to learn its early stages can outright kill you) and thats to say nothing of how difficult it is to learn or how hard it is to use and maintain in combat. Or its sheer fucking power.


ThirdRidoku said:


> Odama rasengan doesnt require an increase in chakra control.


This is beyond asinine 

And totally baseless

He is literally expanding the techniques size and range of action which is HIGHER shape manipulation. 

Shape manipulation being a form of chakra control.

To say nothing of the increase in power.

Troll more


ThirdRidoku said:


> Sm boosts power not chakra control.


Never said otherwise stop strawmanning me


ThirdRidoku said:


> read the Db3 section that explains jutsu difficulty. Its chakra control.


It isnt as its way too inconsistent to make this call

But cool

And even if it was your argument implodes as the use of any Senjutsu technique by default would easily merit a rank upgrade


ThirdRidoku said:


> The ranks give a general ranking , but within the same ranking some chakra control can be easier for some and harder for others.


COR Barrage and Rasengan are used by the same fucking person

Not an argument



ThirdRidoku said:


> Lel. Chidori is A rank. Raikiri is S rank.


And in the entry that calls Raikiri S rank wanna know what else it says?

That its = Chidori

And In the entry that calls Chidori A rank wanna know what else it says?

That its = Raikiri

Wanna know whats also stated directly in the manga multiple times?

That Chidori = Raikiri

Love how not one of you trolls can actually come up with a decent original argument on the subject

You can just parrot the same debunked nonsense that wasnt right a year ago and isnt right now


ThirdRidoku said:


> When a jutsu gets variants it's either because its being boosted by a more potent chakra or because there is a different shape or chakra control application.
> 
> Again don't conflate power with control though. Power correlates to control but also correlates to stamina and potency.
> 
> ...


And all of this is more inane babble and headcanon, or real simple shit I never disputed in the first place.

I asked you for canon scans and all you gave me is word vomit

Noticing a trend with all the shitposters here like you and @Aegon Targaryen


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> .
> 
> 
> Maintaining shadow clones after they are created doesnt require chakra control. Just stamina
> ...





Raikiri is a nickname for the chidori unless you think the manga is incorrect that is?

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Don't pester WorldsWrongest with facts.


Id actually love either you or @ThirdRidoku to post some facts and pester me with them

been fucking asking SOMEBODY to PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD post SOMETHING canon for your stance

And none of you can fucking do it


Aegon Targaryen said:


> This guy is so arrogant he's willing to rant and rave about how Kishimoto doesn't know what he's talking about even though both th manga and the Databooks back up this conclusion.


The Guides and manga actually do the opposite

As has been pointed out to you like 100 times now

You have legit flat out ignored the scans every time tho

Instead accusing me of making up their entire existence even when I directly link you to said scans

This happened less than an hour ago in fact

Pushing your shit flaws onto others is real sad man


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Already done that. Stop being so hysterical.


Nope actually you havent

Myself and @Bob74h2 have asked you for the last hour to do it but you wont

Ive asked you for over a day straight now


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> FTFY
> 
> Case in point would be this thread
> 
> All you can do is run or hide behind third



Y'know, I actually came back to debate you but the problem is that you are ignoring the canon itself because you don't think it ''makes sense''. At that point, what can I or Third or anyone do?



WorldsStrongest said:


> You have yet to actually debate me here despit ethe fact I keep telling you to do so
> 
> Even told you if you did and managed to actually win, Id make a bet with you and change my name to WorldsWrongest for a week
> 
> ...



I don't know that. I know that S-Class jutsu are S-Class for a reason.




WorldsStrongest said:


> As does literally everyone in here



Third and Abyss don't. Abyss doesn't even like me or me him and yet he disagrees with you too lol. There were many others (Architect and Mad Scientist among others). You and Delta don't speak for everyone.



WorldsStrongest said:


> You mean the same premise youve conceded to me on multiple times and admit that Sasuke is faster?



Lol wut? I never conceded Sasuke is faster than SM Naruto. That was the subject of our disagreements - the ones you ran from.



WorldsStrongest said:


> I can grab the quotes and post them here to utterly embarrass you if you want me to



Dew. It.



WorldsStrongest said:


> You actually ran from me here as well
> 
> Was also the 4ths speed iirc
> 
> Not the thirds



Nope, BOTH.



WorldsStrongest said:


> You have literally directly insulted me like 4 times in this thread for no reason in the past 24 hours when all Ive asked you to do is debate me.
> 
> You can genuinely go fuck yourself if youre gonna try to talk to me about attitude kiddo
> 
> ...



What should the mods do about me? Also, is that a threat? You and what army?



WorldsStrongest said:


> And you come off as a lying 2 faced little coward who can do nothing but hide behind other people who dont know what they are talking about



No u.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> And in the entry that calls Raikiri S rank wanna know what else it says?
> 
> That its = Chidori
> 
> ...



Yeah, Sasuke himself said that was wrong. Sorry.


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Y'know, I actually came back to debate you


You havent tho

Literally all youve done is shitpost and insult me needlessly

I came in here, asking you to post evidence to back your claims, you were immediately hostile and accused me of having no brain cells.

You have no interest in a debate as you flat out fucking refuse to even attempt one

Youre a stonewalling lying troll on a good day

Thats the opinion I now have of you and will frankly no longer be taking you seriously or giving you the time of day or any kind of respect going forward.

Cuz youve proven to me 10 times over in this thread alone, thats about all you deserve.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> the problem is that you are ignoring the canon itself


Im not tho

Im just not looking at it through beer goggles like you 2 are

You both cite the DB left and right yet convienetly ignore that that same DB has them both equal TWICE as well.

Not to mention the manga does this.

And then YOU ignore THAT canon MULTIPLE TIMES

You are literally guilty of what you accuse me of

And its pathetic


Aegon Targaryen said:


> I don't know that.


You do

Or else youd have actually attempted to debate me instead of shitposting and hiding behind other people

I asked you for 3 things

I wanted 3 separate scans that all flat out state "Chidori ISNT Raikiri" and you wont post them

Cuz you dont have them

And you know it


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Third and Abyss don't.


Third whos a troll who also wont post canon information

And Im sure abyss will change his mind once he reads through the posts for and against in here like everyone else reasonable already has 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> There were many others (Architect and Mad Scientist among others


Both of whom are also known trolls and massive Kakashi chads

Ive had MS literally argue to my face that Beast Running Jutsu is more powerful and more difficult to control than fucking Kirin is. Thats PA Kakashis tech just so we clear.

Im also like 90% sure architect is the dude who told me Raikiri beats Kirin in a head to head clash. And this was for IA/BoS kakashi.

Thats your boys right there


Aegon Targaryen said:


> I never conceded Sasuke is faster than SM Naruto


Thats also not what the debate was about and you know it

Was Base vs Base throughout the entire manga

Add misrepresentation to your list of shit qualities as a debater


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Dew. It.


KK



Aegon Targaryen said:


> Base Naruto was always Sasuke's physical peer (*outside speed and reflexes*) from the beginning of the manga to the fucking end.





Aegon Targaryen said:


> Naruto was Sai's physical peer (the Databooks back this up) and , implying all three are on the same level in strength and durability (though *not speed ofc*)


Eat shit troll 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Nope, BOTH.


Oh you ran from both?

Cool

Thanks for clearing that up


Aegon Targaryen said:


> What should the mods do about me?


Use your head

Itll come to you


Aegon Targaryen said:


> You and what army?


Out of the 2 of us, whos hiding behind someone else and refusing to debate right now?


Aegon Targaryen said:


> No u.


Cute


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> You havent tho
> 
> Literally all youve done is shitpost and insult me needlessly



Ah, yes, I'm the one who started the insults. Of course...

Also, imagine trying to pull the ''I know you are but what am I?'' refrain on me in regards to running away. You're an overgrown child.

Finally, if Architect and MS are ''massive trolls and Kakashi chads'', you are what, exactly? A Sasuke fanboy of the worst sort.


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Y'know, I actually came back to debate you but the problem is that you are ignoring the canon itself because you don't think it ''makes sense''. At that point, what can I or Third or anyone do?
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Raikiri is a nickname for the chidori, It's stated by might guy himself.
Could also grab the databook entries that say the same thing so tell me how exactly the raikiri is different than the chidori?
You blame worldstrongest for ignoring canon yet you ignore every single piece of evidence provided to support our claim while you unironically provide no sources whatsoever but somehow we ignore canon

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Ah, yes, I'm the one who started the insults. Of course...
> 
> Also, imagine trying to pull the ''I know you are but what am I?'' refrain on me in regards to running away. You're an overgrown child.
> 
> Finally, if Architect and MS are ''massive trolls and Kakashi chads'', you are what, exactly? A Sasuke fanboy of the worst sort.


Still dont see a scan

Not gonna address you ever again if you dont have scans in your post

Have fun in shitposter purgatory


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Still dont see a scan
> 
> Not gonna address you ever again if you dont have scans in your post
> 
> Have fun in shitposter purgatory



Why does he think the raikiri and chidori are different justu when the databook itself says their the same thing, It litterally makes no sense whatsoever


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Still dont see a scan
> 
> Not gonna address you ever again if you dont have scans in your post



That would be great. Please stop talking to me or about me. Even better, gtfo this forum. You being gone would be much better.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> That would be great. Please stop talking to me or about me. Even better, gtfo this forum. You being gone would be much better.


Still dont see a scan

The aegon special

Shitposting cuz hes too afraid to debate me


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Still dont see a scan
> 
> The aegon special
> 
> Shitposting cuz hes too afraid to debate me


----------



## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> That would be great. Please stop talking to me or about me. Even better, gtfo this forum. You being gone would be much better.



We just want one piece of evidence proving what you're saying.
It cannot be that hard now can it?


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

This entry databook states when kakashi uses this technique, it's known as the raikiri which further proves their the same exact same justu.



This databook entry calls the raikiri, kakashi's chidori so every single source states and suggests that the raikiri is the same thing as the chidori so you're just blatantly wrong

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Still dont see a scan
> 
> The aegon special
> 
> Shitposting cuz hes too afraid to debate me


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Not gonna address you ever again



Stick by your words.


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

I already debunked him using his own databook entries so he has no argument and we asked him for sources yet he will not comply, I take this as silent victory really.

Reactions: Like 2


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## PocketGod (Sep 4, 2020)

Poor Aegon, imagine getting your ass handed to you by someone named Bob, no offence Bob.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

PocketGod said:


> Poor Aegon, imagine getting your ass handed to you by someone named Bob, no offence Bob.



What's wrong with the name bob?


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Stick by your words.





WorldsStrongest said:


> Still dont see a scan
> 
> The aegon special
> 
> Shitposting cuz hes too afraid to debate me


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

PocketGod said:


> Poor Aegon, imagine getting your ass handed to you by someone named Bob, no offence Bob.



Dude's on my ignore list so the joke's on him. I saw like one comment from him at best...


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 4, 2020)

Stick by your words.


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Dude's on my ignore list so the joke's on him. I saw like one comment from him at best...



You have to block me because you're too afraid to debate me what a coward.
You have no sources and you been debunked via everyone in this thread so stop acting so pretentious


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## Bob74h (Sep 4, 2020)

PocketGod said:


> Nothing in particular really, it's just a really basic name.



What do you mean by basic?


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## MYGod000 (Sep 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Dude's on my ignore list so the joke's on him. I saw like one comment from him at best...



You should just concede, there is nothing wrong with admitting defeat.  you can only grow as a man by admitting you made a mistake. 

I'm just going to give you some free advice with this Fruitless Endear you are doing.....


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## Android (Sep 10, 2020)

*Epilogue:*

Raikiri > Chidori pro arguments:

2 separate DB entries.
Different rank.

Raikiri = Chidori pro arguments:

DB stating that Raikiri is just a nickname for Chidori
Might Guy saying Chidori and Raikiri are the same
Feats. Raikiri doesn't seem to have any superior feats to Chidori
Adult Sasuke still calls it Chidori despite his far superior Raiton mastery and six paths power.
DB + manga >> DB alone.

Chidori = Raikiri.

Raikiri = a Chidori nicknamed lightning cutter.


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 10, 2020)

Hellraiser said:


> Raikiri = Chidori pro arguments:
> 
> DB stating that Raikiri is just a nickname for Chidori
> Might Guy saying Chidori and Raikiri are the same
> ...


Add the legend they are named after being about 1 sword with 2 names rather than 2 swords with 2 different names, Kakashi stating both techniques have the same chakra cost, and both techniques having the same hand seals


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## Android (Sep 10, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Add the legend they are named after being about 1 sword with 2 names rather than 2 swords with 2 different names, Kakashi stating both techniques have the same chakra cost, and both techniques having the same hand seals


Aaaand that's the final nail in the coffin of the Raikiri > Chidori argument.


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 10, 2020)

Hellraiser said:


> Aaaand that's the final nail in the coffin of the Raikiri > Chidori argument.


For like 3-6 months 

When a Kakashi stan gets it in their head itd be fun to dust off this old debate with 0 new arguments to try and wank the man again


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## dergeist (Sep 10, 2020)

looks like two guys tickling one another, instead of addressing the actual arguments. Since I was banned for discussing Chidori vs Raikiri, I won't be doing it again, but I've yet to see the argument or change in ranks addressed.


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## Android (Sep 10, 2020)

dergeist said:


> but I've yet to see the argument or change in ranks addressed.


Really?


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