# Base Kakashi vs Tsunade



## joshhookway (Mar 28, 2014)

Now that Kakashi is blind in his sharingan eyes, who wins?


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## Ersa (Mar 28, 2014)

Tsunade beats base Kakashi I feel. If she doesn't bring out Katsuyu early then Kakashi stands a fair chance but generally I'd bank on the slug coming out and a combination of Katsuyu + regeneration should allow her to outlast and beat Kakashi. Speed-wise Kakashi is comfortably ahead, probably just a bit slower then someone like Itachi but Tsunade should be generally fine with his speed although short-range blitz is possible I don't think he can capitalize once she has her defenses up.

I don't feel Kakashi can defeat a Sannin without his MS, overrated as they are.


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## BlastF (Mar 29, 2014)

Katsuyu solos :blindkatsuyu


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## Naiad (Mar 29, 2014)

Kakashi wins this poll because he has more fans! 

in generell he would lose in base!


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## Grimmjowsensei (Mar 29, 2014)

Can go eitherway but I am leaning towards Tsunade. 

She can activate Byakugo and tank hits and kill Kakashi with a counter attack.


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## Weapon (Mar 29, 2014)

Lol, Base Kakashi?

Byakugo Tsunade rampages all over him.


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## Super Chief (Mar 29, 2014)

It's like Kakashi VS Kakuzu only ever worse since Tsunade won't play around and push his shit in.


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## Mercurial (Mar 29, 2014)

Kakashi isn't blind like Itachi was at the ending of his fight with Sasuke, Lol. He can still use Sharingan, Mangekyo and all, he insta-Kamui'd away a portion of Juubimadara's Onmyoton shield. His sight dropped a lot, so he can't do things like that, in split milliseconds, from a long distance.

Nothing changed, Kakashi can Kamui GG the second he wants to. Or he can blitz Tsunade in half with Raiden, Raikiri her head away, what do you want. His still has a wide speed advantage and Sharingan precog, not to mention bushinjutsu feint, intellect and all.


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## Super Chief (Mar 29, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> Kakashi isn't blind like Itachi was at the ending of his fight with Sasuke, Lol. He can still use Sharingan, Mangekyo and all, he insta-Kamui'd away a portion of Juubimadara's Onmyoton shield. His sight dropped a lot, so he can't do things like that, in split milliseconds, from a long distance.
> 
> Nothing changed, Kakashi can Kamui GG the second he wants to. Or he can blitz Tsunade in half with Raiden, Raikiri her head away, what do you want. His still has a wide speed advantage and Sharingan precog, not to mention bushinjutsu feint, intellect and all.



Tsunade held her own against 5 Madara clones in Susanoo. Kakashi's "wide speed" advantage won't be enough. Tsunade is the one who thought Sakura how to evade like a pro, do you really think she's going to get hit so easily? Please. This myth of Tsunade being slow needs to die. Lack of speeds does not mean she's a slug. Pun intended.


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## Mercurial (Mar 29, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> Tsunade held her own against 5 Madara clones in Susanoo. Kakashi's "wide speed" advantage won't be enough. Tsunade is the one who thought Sakura how to evade like a pro, do you really think she's going to get hit so easily? Please. This myth of Tsunade being slow needs to die. Lack of speeds does not mean she's a slug. Pun intended.



She didn't held her own. Clones were a lot weaker than the original, and she was wounded and wounded anytime, but her healing/regen with Byakugo let her continue to fight. 

Sakura can't really evade like a pro, she has been hit by Kabuto's bottom pushed away by Naruto's chakra, she has been hit by a casual kick from fodder Omoi or Karui (can't remember who) and she would have been hit from the Juubi's Mokuton spikes, like any fodder in the Alliance, if Kakashi wouldn't have saved her.

I'm not saying Tsunade is slow, but she is not fast either, and her attack pattern is a lot predictable and leaves a lot of openings. Kakashi on the other side is a lot faster than her (landed Raikiri on V2 Bijuu; outspeeded and outreacted Obito, who was physically as fast as no Shunshin KCM Naruto; in chapter 657 reacts on par with Minato; has been called fast a lot of times, his speed is hyped even in databooks,; could blitz Zabuza cutting his arm and piercing his heart in the same swift movement; could blitz Kakuzu and Asura Pain with a little distraction) and has Sharingan precog too. And he is also a lot more versatile, impredictable and smarter. 

There's no contest, he will trick or blitz and then kill her, even if he is losing his sight he didn't become blind.


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## Mithos (Mar 29, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> She didn't held her own. Clones were a lot weaker than the original, and she was wounded and wounded anytime, but her healing/regen with Byakugo let her continue to fight.
> 
> Sakura can't really evade like a pro, she has been hit by Kabuto's bottom pushed away by Naruto's chakra, she has been hit by a casual kick from fodder Omoi or Karui (can't remember who) and she would have been hit from the Juubi's Mokuton spikes, like any fodder in the Alliance, if Kakashi wouldn't have saved her.
> 
> ...



Tsunade wasn't blitzed by 5 Susano'o clones. Kakashi is not blitzing her. 

And his speed doesn't mean much since he has to get in close to land his best attacks, which put him in range of her taijutsu. If he hits her, she is going to tank it and counter-attack. Kakashi's attacks are not going to work well against Byakugou. 

And Kakashi without MS has no means to counter Katsuyu. He can't harm her significantly and he can't dodge acid blasts forever. Dodging acid blasts or body slams is going to leave him open.


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## Senjuclan (Mar 29, 2014)

Kakashi is becoming one of the most overrated characters now and at sundae is grossly underrated.

Base Kakashi does not have a single thing to defeat her with. She will obliterate him. Kakashi's only defense is clone feints. While this works, he does not have the chakra to sustain it. The minute Tsunade realizes that he hides his real body with doton to use kage bunshin, she can simply destroy the whole battlefield until she finds him and destroys him. 

Tsunade wins low-mid difficulty


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## LostSelf (Mar 29, 2014)

Tsunade is not beating Kakashi at low diff. Never, ever, and we call her underrated?

Kakashi has no means to kill her, but he can confortably dodge all her attacks, all of Katsuyu's and i don't know why we put Tsunade working with katsuyu and the same time. It's not like Tsunade is not affected by friendly fire.

Therefore, Tsunade outlasts. But i see no feats convincing me of her giving Kakashi troubles dodging her, hitting her and trolling her until he is tired and his physical condition allows Tsunade to keep up better.

And please, don't bring the 5 in the DB when she has shown the opposite.


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## Sachchidanand (Mar 29, 2014)

Tsunade defeats Base Kakashi easily.


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## FlamingRain (Mar 29, 2014)

I'm just going to assume manga knowledge since it wasn't specified in the OP, with which Tsunade ought to be aware of Kakashi's _Raiton Kage Bunshin_ tactics, which she can deal with through _Ranshinshō_ taps.

Not that it's actually very pertinent whether or not she's paralyzed in the first place, since Kakashi has no means counter to _Sōzō Saisei/Byakugō no Jutsu_ without _Kamui_. He can impale her, slash her, electrocute her, blast her with water, etc., but not kill her while the technique is activated and Tsunade isn't losing any stamina contests either. I'm not sure how he's supposed to get away with impaling her without Tsunade taking advantage of his forced close-proximity and blasting him apart with a retaliatory strike, though.

Things only start looking worse for Kakashi when Katsuyu is factored in, what with it raining acid all over the place that pools up and leaves less and less room to evade over time, while it wouldn't have an issue body slamming someone surrounded by the acid since it can just split off any parts of its body that land on the pools. Or it can just be lazy and skip all that to instead melt all over the field, which results in a drastically slowed Kakashi because he's forced to run through all that potentially snaring goo to get near Tsunade, who could very well overdose him with _Shosen_ while his feat are stuck to it and knock him out, which is bad because he's at his highest lethality up close (now even without _Kamui_ restricted).

So I'm really seeing a lot more paths to victory for Tsunade here.



> She didn't held her own.



Tsunade was to her clones what Piccolo was to Android 17.

The only reason those clones could have eventually prevailed is that they have indefinitely replenishing stamina while Tsunade does not.



> And Kakashi without MS has no means to counter Katsuyu.



Kakashi has no means to counter Katsuyu even _with_ the MS, honestly.



> And please, don't bring the 5 in the DB when she has shown the opposite.



And talk about arbitrary...


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## wooly Eullerex (Mar 29, 2014)

Tsunade beats MS Kakashi w/ full knowledge, yes.

on the other hand, she still needs kuchiyose to assuredly defeat his base


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## LostSelf (Mar 29, 2014)

FlamingRain said:


> And talk about arbitrary...



Of course, not taking that sentence too literal, because nobody has shown a 0 in taijutsu. However, you get the point.


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## joshhookway (Mar 29, 2014)

"Kakashi has no means to kill Tsunade"

So Tsunade regenerates from a severed head?


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## LostSelf (Mar 29, 2014)

I don't think the difference in speed is too big that he will cut her head.

However, it is true that she is not auto healing a stab in the head and will be fighting like nothing while this happens. I don't believe that. So if Kakashi stabs her and makes her fall even for a bit, like Madara did, he has his chances. 

It's not like Kakashi has stamina issues anymore, though.


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## Bonly (Mar 29, 2014)

Oh the good ol Tsunade vs Base Kakashi thread. Well nothing much has changed besides Kakashi getting a crapton of stamina oh and OP Kakashi isn't blind in his Sharingan yet. So this comes down to would Kakashi be able to land a fatal head blow or would Tsunade punch his lights out first. Those who thought Kakashi couldn't do it with his tricks and speed before hand prolly won't think he can do such now. Those who thought Kakashi could do such with tricks and speed prolly won't see otherwise. I'd say pick your side of the fence and keep moving lol


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## Rocky (Mar 29, 2014)

FlamingRain said:


> Tsunade ought to be aware of Kakashi's _Raiton Kage Bunshin_ tactics




Did she seem him use it? If she has, I don't remember at all.



> Kakashi has no means counter to _Sōzō Saisei/Byakugō no Jutsu_ without _Kamui_.




He could theoretically use Raiden, as self-regeneration doesn't appear to restore severed limbs (or bisection). Though he would need to jump through all sorts of loops to land it cleanly, while Tsunade can simply win by punching him.


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## FlamingRain (Mar 29, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Did she seem him use it? If she has, I don't remember at all.



Not on panel, but part of her job as the Fifth Hokage involves the process of sifting through the individual skill-sets of her ninja in order to determine and pick those whose abilities are the most suited for each specific mission with each specific team. We also know that she keeps tabs on the development and progression of their abilities in order to keep their classified profiles up to date, too, as seen in her checking up on Kakashi's success with mastering _Kamui_.

So I think it's a safe assumption that she at least knows he can use it.



> He could theoretically use Raiden, as self-regeneration doesn't appear to restore severed limbs (or bisection). Though he would need to jump through all sorts of loops to land it cleanly, while Tsunade can simply win by punching him.



Concerning the bifurcation incident, Tsunade was in base and in an exhausted state. If she barely had the Chakra to treat the far less grievous wounds of the other Kages and her transformation had worn off I really doubt she even had the energy sufficient to regenerate half of her body at that time.

Concerning severed limbs: I'm pretty sure you're referring to Madara replacing his severed arm with Zetsu's despite having Hashirama's healing. I think we ought to keep in mind that Madara only said Hashirama's healing was superior to Tsunade's typical _Shosen_ was because it could forgo the use of hand-seals altogether; he didn't say that the actual level of restoration was above what he had seen from her. Additionally, Tsunade's _Byakugō no Jutsu_ is considered _the ultimate_ medical Ninjutsu because it can restore what is otherwise impossible to restore with things such as _Shosen_, such as lost limbs. That is something it is explicitly stated to be able to do in the manga and in the guidebooks.

So either:

_*1.)*_ Tsunade's regeneration is actually superior to Hashirama's.

_*2.)*_ Madara simply didn't know the true extent of Hashirama's abilities (seeing as Hashi isn't actually old it could be that he simply hasn't needed to heal as extensively).

or

_*3.)*_ Madara simply didn't want to go back to being an old man after coming back to life and knew that connecting another arm would reduce the extent of the aging.

And speaking of jumping, Tsunade could theoretically flip over _Raiden_ and come down with a _Tsūtenkyaku_ well behind Kakashi while he'd still probably get caught up in the collateral damage of the meteoric impact of her heel drop.


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## Mercurial (Mar 29, 2014)

FlamingRain said:


> I'm just going to assume manga knowledge since it wasn't specified in the OP, with which Tsunade ought to be aware of Kakashi's _Raiton Kage Bunshin_ tactics, which she can deal with through _Ranshinshō_ taps.
> 
> Not that it's actually very pertinent whether or not she's paralyzed in the first place, since Kakashi has no means counter to _Sōzō Saisei/Byakugō no Jutsu_ without _Kamui_. He can impale her, slash her, electrocute her, blast her with water, etc., but not kill her while the technique is activated and Tsunade isn't losing any stamina contests either. I'm not sure how he's supposed to get away with impaling her without Tsunade taking advantage of his forced close-proximity and blasting him apart with a retaliatory strike, though.
> 
> Kakashi has no means to counter Katsuyu even _with_ the MS, honestly.


If she touches one she will be electrocuted and paralyzed, one second after that her head will be rolling on the floor. And she will touch a RKB only if the RKB allowed her to do so, there is a wide speed and taijutsu skill gap, and the Sharingan precognition.

Kakashi can genjutsu control Katsuyu with Sharingan, his genjutsu is on par with Obito's. If you want to argue that she hasn't eyes, anyway it doesn't matter, he can dodge her acid and blitz Tsunade in half, desummoning her. Or Kakashi can insta-Kamui GG Tsunade meanwhile she is summoning Katsuyu. He showed the feats to do so.



FlamingRain said:


> Not on panel, but part of her job as the Fifth Hokage involves the process of sifting through the individual skill-sets of her ninja in order to determine and pick those whose abilities are the most suited for each specific mission with each specific team. We also know that she keeps tabs on the development and progression of their abilities in order to keep their classified profiles up to date, too, as seen in her checking up on Kakashi's success with mastering _Kamui_.
> 
> So I think it's a safe assumption that she at least knows he can use it.
> 
> And speaking of jumping, Tsunade could theoretically flip over _Raiden_ and come down with a _Tsūtenkyaku_ well behind Kakashi while he'd still probably get caught up in the collateral damage of the meteoric impact of her heel drop.



Even if she knew it doesn't change anything, at all. Did Itachi know that Kakashi was a skilled bushinjutsu user? Did Pain know that Kakashi was a skilled bushinjutsu user (he knew his fame and strength reputation and probably some fights thanks to Zetsu)? Did they have powerful dojutsu and were they ninja a lot smarter and more skilled than Tsunade is? Yes. And Kakashi still feinted and tricked him. Kakashi is too skilled and smart to not trick a fighter like Tsunade, by feats, hype and portrayal. C'mon.

She is not jumping anything. Kakashi is a lot, a lot faster than her (landed Raikiri on V2 Bijuu; outspeeded and outreacted Obito, who was physically as fast as no Shunshin KCM Naruto; in chapter 657 reacts on par with Minato; has been called fast a lot of times, his speed is hyped even in databooks,; could blitz Zabuza cutting his arm and piercing his heart in the same swift movement; could blitz Kakuzu and Asura Pain with a little distraction) and has Sharingan precog too. If you believe in databooks (I don't, but you will surely put them in to say that Tsunade has a 5 in taijutsu... Lol at it) Zabuza is a 4, more than Tsunade's 3.5 (and that is Shippuden Tsunade, not part 1 rusty Tsunade, because it's from the 3rd databook) and when he tried to attack Kakashi with his sword... Kakashi managed to blitz and cut his arm and pierce his heart in one single movement. Raiden is made from two Kakashi (the original one and a KB) Shunshining at high speeds and with Sharingan enhanced reactions, it could slice through V2 chakra arms before they reached him from a short distance attacking from behind. She is blitzed in half or her head is taken away. Kakashi can do this also using Raikiri to slice and cut, instead than pierce.


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## Rocky (Mar 29, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> Landed Raikiri on V2 Bijuu; outspeeded and outreacted Obito, who was physically as fast as no Shunshin KCM Naruto; in chapter 657 reacts on par with Minato; has been called fast a lot of times, his speed is hyped even in databooks,; could blitz Zabuza cutting his arm and piercing his heart in the same swift movement; could blitz Kakuzu and Asura Pain with a little distraction




You tend to overrate Kakashi's speed and gloss over the multiple factors that lead to the instances in your examples.


The Jinchuriki charged in at Kakashi & Gai, and both punished their recklessness (though the V2 cloaks protected against any damage). When Kakashi reengaged one of them, it ducked his Raikiri and knocked him away. He wasn't faster than them.


"No Shunshin" KCM Naruto isn't faster than any high level character with Shunshin available. The Body Flicker is what everybody utilizes for their combat speed, except for Gated Gai. Without it, Naruto, Kakashi, Base Gai, Obito, B, Sasuke, Itachi, etc....they're all around the same general level of foot speed. 


Kakashi didn't "outspeed" or "blitz" Obito and Zabuza. He outmaneuvered them in close quarters, which also has much to do with Taijutsu ability. He didn't just run at them and Raikiri them before they could move...


Kakashi snuck up on Kakuzu, and I don't remember him ever blitzing Shurado, even with whatever distraction you're talking about.


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## Grimsley (Mar 29, 2014)

Tsunade crushes his skull.


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## Mercurial (Mar 29, 2014)

Rocky said:


> You tend to overrate Kakashi's speed and gloss over the multiple factors that lead to the instances in your examples.
> 
> 
> The Jinchuriki charged in at Kakashi & Gai, and both punished their recklessness (though the V2 cloaks protected against any damage). When Kakashi reengaged one of them, it ducked his Raikiri and knocked him away. He wasn't faster than them.
> ...



If he wasn't faster, he couldn't have punished their recklessness (if a faster character tries to blitz a slower character... maybe he could be reacted and stopped through defense, but sure as hell he wouldn't be counterblitzed and physically hit). He wasn't a loooot faster, but he was faster.

And so?

Zabuza run at Kakashi, with a long sword that has huge, huge reach, and Kakashi run at Zabuza. A millisecond after, Zabuza's sworded arm is cut and Kakashi's hand is in Zabuza's chest...

Against Obito sure Kakashi didn't just blitz plain and simple, but he showed to be physically faster and better in taijutsu.

Kakuzu could sense Shikamaru's Kagemane no jutsu that was tracking him from behind, and Kagemane no jutsu doesn't make noise at all. Chidori makes a lot of noise (hence the name... we all know "thousand birds" etc) and Raikiri focuses more Raiton chakra than Chidori... Kakashi could run behind Kakuzu's back and hit him without the latter feeling his approaching presence or even able to react until his heart was pierced.

Shurado arrived on the scene. Next time we see that fight, there is a wide, enormous smoke screen all around the scene, and debris are around, probably because Shurado attacked Kakashi with missiles, rockets and explosives and he dodged (in the anime, actually, we see things going exactly like this) and then an instant after, Kakashi is behind Shurado's back.


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## Veracity (Mar 29, 2014)

@Raikari19

Tsuande probably will not be parlayed based on her resilience and the fact that she can regenerate on an extremely speedy level. She also has the option to place Katusyu pieces on her body thus completely negating the paralyzation.

 The speed gap isn't large in any sense. Current Kakashi more or less has a 4.5 while only part 1 Tsunade has a 3.5. She most likely has a 4 now( she's fucking faster then Shizune who has a 4) thus slimming the gap to only .5. 

A ninja does not have to be the exact speed or faster to keep up with another ninja. Hidan canonically kept up with 4.5 Kakashi despite having only a 3.5 and Kakashi having the Sharingan. How'd he do this? Purely based on Taijustu skill. Tsunade is FAR superior to Kakashi in taijustu lol. Can't even deny that shit. She has a perfect stat coupled on the fact that she is legendary in that category. Jirayia himself called her unparalleled in close quarter combat. Kakashi is not superior to Tsunade in taijustu. That's funny.

Kakashi is not applying Genjustu to a summon that has no eyes and is hive minded lol.  Sure he can dodge acid mist, but 100 Katsuyu's spitting acid and serving as diversions assures that Tsuande plants her fist into the bridge of Kakashis nose.

Kakashi is not blitzing anyone lol. That's funny. You seem to really over-exaggerate every single one of Kakashis feats.


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## Mercurial (Mar 29, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> @Raikari19
> 
> The speed gap isn't large in any sense. Current Kakashi more or less has a 4.5 while only part 1 Tsunade has a 3.5. She most likely has a 4 now( she's fucking faster then Shizune who has a 4) thus slimming the gap to only .5.
> 
> ...



Current Kakashi should have a 5 in speed, Shippuuden beginning Kakashi and part 1 Kakashi have 4.5 in speed. And the 3.5 Tsunade is Shippuuden Tsunade, not part 1 rusty Tsunade, her value is from the 3rd databook and not the 1st or the 2nd. Also, could care less about databooks, Sasuke had 4.5 and could blitz Deidara who had 4.5. Wonderful.

Kakashi had an injured hand and was using a kunai against a scythe. Also Kakashi had to look for Kakuzu's ranged attacks/masks and to take an eye on fodder team 10.

Could care less about Jiraiya's words, I could list you a hundred of hyperbole or characters statements who don't make any sense. Tsunade is physically strong, fucking strong, but nothing more, I could list 10, 20, maybe 30 characters more skilled in taijutsu than her. Kakashi is one of the better taijutsu fighter we've seen, also he is a speedster and has Sharingan precognition, can incorporate ninjutsu (bushinjutsu, Doton underground etc) and genjutsu (Sharingan genjutsu) to his CQC and his hits become unblockable thanks to Raikiri and Raikiri stream in his weapons.

She hasn't eyes? I wonder how she can see, I don't remember her listed as a sensory type... yeah, and when what you've said happens, Kakashi swapped himself with a Kage Bunshin or a RKB (he could trick Itachi and Pain... ... ...) that Tsunade hits. A second after, Tsunade's head is rolling on the floor.


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## Veracity (Mar 30, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> Current Kakashi should have a 5 in speed, Shippuuden beginning Kakashi and part 1 Kakashi have 4.5 in speed. And the 3.5 Tsunade is Shippuuden Tsunade, not part 1 rusty Tsunade, her value is from the 3rd databook and not the 1st or the 2nd. Also, could care less about databooks, Sasuke had 4.5 and could blitz Deidara who had 4.5. Wonderful.
> 
> Kakashi had an injured hand and was using a kunai against a scythe. Also Kakashi had to look for Kakuzu's ranged attacks/masks and to take an eye on fodder team 10.
> 
> ...



If Kakashi should have a "5" then Tsunade should have a 4.5 easily. She blitzed Shizune(4) and Oro(4.5) while rusty. 

The 3.5 is for shippuden Tsunade without the use of fighting , meaning her last fight would be the Sannin showdown battle. Tsunades speed has upgraded more then Kakashis has from part 1 to the war arc. She was rusty, in part 1 while Kakashi was obviously not. I'm not saying Tsunade is as fast as Kakashi. But Tsunade being a 4.5 and Kakashi being a 5 sounds about right.

I don't recall Kakashi having an injured arm.... 

It doesn't matter the length of the weapon. Kakashi was stalemated by Hidan in CQC despite the entire point speed difference and Sharingan pre cog. 

Hidan was actually pressuring Kakashi before kakuzu even casted the Justu; Gai vs Juubidara

He also stalemated Kakashi without Kakuzus interfering at all; Gai vs Juubidara

It's just to show that Tsunade has more hype for taijustu in the manga bar Gai. Those were Kishi words. He chose to hype up Tsunade lol not me.

LOL name 4 characters better then Tsunade in taijustu. She is THE best taijustu specialist in the manga bar Gai and possibly bees kenjustu skills. The only reason someone might get the jump on here in CQC is purely based on speed or an insane shunshin lol. Tsunade is top tiered in shunshin skill. You seem to overlook her feats and even underrate her based on her lack of feats basically.

Her CQC feats are :

? basically equaling an elite Jounin( Kabuto with soldier pills) while rusty and exhausted. Then actually one panaled him and would have killed him her phobia wasn't present. 

? completely eradicated Oro in CQC , blitzed him twice while having her organs in pieces, cause him to flee after 2 hits and one paneled Manda all while exhausted and rusty.

? current Tsunade coordinated attacks with the freaking Gokage, landed attacks on Madara Uchiha, and fought off 5 Sussano clones while exhausted.

Lol @ Kakashis CQC feats. Most of his hype in the forums comes from solely Kamui.

Lol the things you just named for Kakashi are negated via Byakugo.

Um because she's a freaking magical slug that can regenerate, transfer chakra, split into thousands of clones, is larger then 100 feet, can speak , and can spit acid. Why are you trying to be realistic with Katsuyu. She's the least practical thing in the manga.

The way Kakashi tricked Itachi and pain was much different then you are assuming here. He can't just trade places with a Kage Bunshin right in front of Tsunade without her seeing it lol. Even if managed to fool her and blindside attacks her, Tsunade still has a large Katusyu division surrounding the area, Katsuyu meatshields , Yasaka tanking durabilty, and Byakago.  Kakashi gets his his hand stuck in her stomach, Tsunade then turns around and dismembers him.


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## Turrin (Mar 30, 2014)

Come on people the manga makes it pretty implicit that without Kamui Kakashi isn't stepping to someone of Tsunade's level. I mean while Tsunade and Jiriaya contemplate Kakashi as a possible replacement for Tsunade in the Uchia Bros arc, ultimately they decided he still could not replace her; and that was with Kakashi having a certain degree of Kamui skills. Take even that away and he is not even close. Tsunade should take this with low to at most mid difficulty.



Rocky said:


> He could theoretically use Raiden, as self-regeneration doesn't appear to restore severed limbs (or bisection). Though he would need to jump through all sorts of loops to land it cleanly, while Tsunade can simply win by punching him.


Tsunade can regenerate limbs with Gensis of Rebirth:

Viz, _Tsunade: What, It's Just I've been storing chakra in my forehead for many years with such a large amount of chakra I can stimulate all the proteins in my body and accelerate cell division to rebuild them. I can regenerate organs and* limbs*. It's not a recover ability, *it's regeneration *sfx:swp_

Edit: Oh and Tsunade has regenerated herself from bisection:
Gai vs Juubidara
Gai vs Juubidara


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## Rocky (Mar 30, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Tsunade can regenerate limbs with Gensis of Rebirth:
> 
> Viz, _Tsunade: What, It's Just I've been storing chakra in my forehead for many years with such a large amount of chakra I can stimulate all the proteins in my body and accelerate cell division to rebuild them. I can regenerate organs and* limbs*. It's not a recover ability, *it's regeneration *sfx:swp_




Oh.

Well nevermind then.



> Edit: Oh and Tsunade has regenerated herself from bisection:
> Gai vs Juubidara
> Gai vs Juubidara




That was done using Katsuyu (and Karin). I was speaking of ways to beat Byakugo/Creation Rebirth and those alone.


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## Turrin (Mar 30, 2014)

Rocky said:


> That was done using Katsuyu (and Karin). I was speaking of ways to beat Byakugo/Creation Rebirth and those alone.


It was done through Katsuya using Byakugo/Gensis of Rebirth. Karin simply provided the chakra, since Tsunade was running on empty.


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## Rocky (Mar 30, 2014)

Turrin said:


> It was done through Katsuya using Byakugo/Gensis of Rebirth. Karin simply provided the chakra, since Tsunade was running on empty.




.....Byakugo was most definitely not activated, nor was Creation Rebirth. Where were the markings?


EDIT: Oh, and she didn't regenerate a new lower half. She had to have her lower body brought to her. If Kakashi successfully pulled of bisection, he could grab her legs and run off with them.


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## trance (Mar 30, 2014)

> She blitzed Shizune(4) and *Oro(4.5) while rusty*.



Orochimaru was hardly at the peak of his strength at the time.


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## FlamingRain (Mar 30, 2014)

Tsunade was a lot worse off.



Turrin said:


> I mean while Tsunade and Jiriaya contemplate Kakashi as a possible replacement for Tsunade in the Uchia Bros arc, ultimately they decided he still could not replace her; and that was with Kakashi having a certain degree of Kamui skills.



Jiraiya actually said Kakashi still had a ways to go in the official Viz translation.



Raikiri19 said:


> If she touches one she will be electrocuted and paralyzed,



_Raiton Kage Bunshins_ only paralyze targets in the moment of their actual destruction, not upon making contact period. They won't explode if Tsunade merely taps them and flips their neural system; more harm has befallen clones before they disperse (ex.: Orochimaru's _Kage Bunshin_ slamming into a tree without popping, Sai's _Sumi Bunshin_ not busting when tackled into the ground, etc.).



> Kakashi can genjutsu control Katsuyu with Sharingan, his genjutsu is on par with Obito's.



Slugs can sense by using their secondary antennas to determine things by smell rather than by using their primary pair of antennas to see, yes, and Katsuyu's abilities are simply massive exaggerations of a real slug's. In addition to that, Katsuyu is a hive-minded conglomerate of otherwise independent slugs that operate across a Chakra cloud which is connected to Tsunade. Genjutsu is not an issue.



> Or Kakashi can insta-Kamui GG Tsunade meanwhile she is summoning Katsuyu. He showed the feats to do so.



I don't think Kakashi's unveiling his Sharingan, activating the Mangekyō specifically, and warping her body away before she can bite her thumb and put it on the ground, especially at any moderate starting distance that Kakashi would have to lessen first.



> Even if she knew it doesn't change anything, at all. Did Itachi know that Kakashi was a skilled bushinjutsu user? Did Pain know that Kakashi was a skilled bushinjutsu user (he knew his fame and strength reputation and probably some fights thanks to Zetsu)? Did they have powerful dojutsu and were they ninja a lot smarter and more skilled than Tsunade is? Yes. And Kakashi still feinted and tricked him.



It changes everything, actually. And no, I don't think Itachi or Nagato had such specific knowledge that Kakashi was a skilled Bunshin user, or that either of them are a lot smarter than Tsunade (especially Nagato).

Most importantly I don't think that's at all relevant to my argument since it isn't as though I ever suggested that he can't manage to pull off a feint period.

She doesn't have to know she's facing a clone in order to use _Ranshinshō_, it'd disable whatever she's standing against be it the real thing or not, so it can be used against whatever she sees and not have to get electrocuted.



> Kakashi is a lot, a lot faster than her (landed Raikiri on V2 Bijuu; outspeeded and outreacted Obito, who was physically as fast as no Shunshin KCM Naruto; in chapter 657 reacts on par with Minato; has been called fast a lot of times, his speed is hyped even in databooks,; could blitz Zabuza cutting his arm and piercing his heart in the same swift movement; could blitz Kakuzu and Asura Pain with a little distraction) and has Sharingan precog too.



The Jinchūriki also landed tail whips on Kakashi and sent him flying after his next _Raikiri_ missed, and he never out-sped Obito- he outplayed him in a Taijutsu skirmish. Obito isn't physically as fast as KCM Naruto, either.

Asura's reactions are Deva's reactions because Nagato is behind them both, the fact that Deva could perceive Kakashi's movements and allow Asura to duck out of the way means that Kakashi could not blitz an attentive Asura. Sneaking up on him behind the cover of all the smoke and rubble isn't a reflection of speed, but stealth. The same applies to the Kakuzu scenario, but you also have Hidan talking with him to add onto the distraction and the fact that they weren't even aware Kakashi was among their opponents.



> If you believe in databooks (I don't, but you will surely put them in to say that Tsunade has a 5 in taijutsu... Lol at it)



  

Hypocrisy at its finest; you just used them to attest to Kakashi's speed.

And yeah I will use them. Tsunade being more skilled than Kakashi in Taijutsu ought to be a given regardless of whether or not I believe in the data-books.



> Zabuza is a 4, more than Tsunade's 3.5 (and that is Shippuden Tsunade, not part 1 rusty Tsunade, because it's from the 3rd databook) and when he tried to attack Kakashi with his sword... Kakashi managed to blitz and cut his arm and pierce his heart in one single movement.



The data-books don't account for Chakra enhanced movements, and Tsunade is a lot better at those than Zabuza.

Being tier 4 (Zabuza tier) didn't stop Shizune from getting blitzed by decades rusty (greatly slowed) Tsunade, and being tier 3.5 (Tsunade tier) didn't prevent Hidan from being able to keep pace with Kakashi.

Tsunade will be fine with his speed.


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## trance (Mar 30, 2014)

> Tsunade was a lot worse off.



Than Orochimaru? 

My memory of Part I is somewhat blurry but wasn't Orochimaru growing increasingly weaker because of Hiruzen's "Shiki Fūjin" taking his arms?


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## Jad (Mar 30, 2014)

Didnt Kabuto with one hand cut Itachi in half? Kakashi in the same position should be able to as well, right? Also, why would Kakashi leave his hand in Tsunade? Seem smarter to keep his movements constant and fluid in my opinion. Imagine two Kage bunshin CQC'ing Tsunade with unblockable rakiri blows. Seems like a tough position to be. Also Tsunade regen  is not instant. Everytime she has regen she has done it in a few panels or pages. So she wont be 100% in regen giving Kakshi the adv.


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## FlamingRain (Mar 30, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Than Orochimaru?
> 
> My memory of Part I is somewhat blurry but wasn't Orochimaru growing increasingly weaker because of Hiruzen's "Shiki Fūjin" taking his arms?



Yes, it wasn't that hasty a process though. The presence of the necrosis and pain was at its strongest in his arms, which aren't pertinent to moving out of the way in a world where like everyone runs with their arms flailing behind their back.

The handicaps were mutual and the biggest problem Orochimaru faced was his inability to cast several of his advanced Ninjutsu while the biggest problem Tsunade faced was her physicality being diminished by two decades worth of inactivity and alcoholism, but Kabuto added severed muscles that normally immobilize people completely on top of that already fallen state, and Orochimaru added multiple sword wounds.

The sequence in question is one pertaining exclusively to physical attributes, so she was worse off concerning that particular instance.


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## Rocky (Mar 30, 2014)

I don't think people quite realize what it means to be _physically stronger_ than beasts like the Raikage, B, etc. She can literally smash the ground (she even has specific techniques to do so) and ragdoll the fuck out of Kakashi with the subsequent shockwave. Remember Sakura vs. those Jubilings? Yeah, Kakashi is basically Hermes..

....and Tsunade is fucking Kratos. He doesn't stand a chance. His best option for defeating Tsunade would be backing the hell up and attempting Kamui, but unfortunately for him...


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## Veracity (Mar 30, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Orochimaru was hardly at the peak of his strength at the time.



Oro not having arms contributes to nothing lol. 

The fact that Tsunade could plant her fist into his face from a floored position with her organs in shreds, WITHOUT Oro being to move an inch means it was a solid blitz.


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## Veracity (Mar 30, 2014)

Jad said:


> Didnt Kabuto with one hand cut Itachi in half? Kakashi in the same position should be able to as well, right? Also, why would Kakashi leave his hand in Tsunade? Seem smarter to keep his movements constant and fluid in my opinion. Imagine two Kage bunshin CQC'ing Tsunade with unblockable rakiri blows. Seems like a tough position to be. Also Tsunade regen  is not instant. Everytime she has regen she has done it in a few panels or pages. So she wont be 100% in regen giving Kakshi the adv.



It depends the injury basically. Tsunade was able to heal her organs being shredded in 2 panels way back when she was rusty; Hermes

Kakashi lacks the strength to freaking move his arm from Tsuande crotch through the top of her skull. She could tank Yasaka with 0 injury. I doubt Kakashi and his lighting blade are multiple upon multiple times stronger then Yasaka. Evene if it was , when ever has Kakashi every used lighting blade like Kabuto used his chakra scalpel ?

People seem to think that Tsunade is just an on the ground fighter like killer bee or something lol. Part 1 Lee pulled a freaking tree branch out the ground to block an attack and PTS Lee is less intelligence, has less taijustu skill, and is 1/100th the strength of Tsunade. If 2 Kakashis swarm Tsunade with raiton techniques, id believe she'd have the intelligence to simply replicate Sakuras feat and possible kill the actual Kakashi in the process.


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## Kaiser (Mar 30, 2014)

Kakashi wins. He is a more complete and tactical shinobi than Tsunade only relying on taijutsu and strength, taijutsu in which she is lacking mobility-wise compared to Kakashi especially with a sharingan. He decimated Obito in a taijutsu battle and showed equal reflexive speed to 6gated Gai. He showed comparable genjutsu to Obito as well, someone who can control perfect jinchurikis or the Kyubi. He can guide his long range raiton attacks like the lightning volt. He showed the capacity to fool even someone as smart as Itachi with his KB usage. Tsunade only relying on taijutsu could be tricked and get hit by the lightning clone. 

Tsunade may regenerate herself, but it's not like she can create new limbs. If Kakashi cuts her hand, it's gone, if Kakashi cuts her in half, she is helpless. She would need Katsuyu to fix her in this case and with the amount of feints Kakashi can use, added with his superior speed and lethal lightning attacks, i give him the win. The Kamui-less Kakashi is underestimated here


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## joshhookway (Apr 2, 2014)

Rocky said:


> I don't think people quite realize what it means to be _physically stronger_ than beasts like the Raikage, B, etc. She can literally smash the ground (she even has specific techniques to do so) and ragdoll the fuck out of Kakashi with the subsequent shockwave. Remember Sakura vs. those Jubilings? Yeah, Kakashi is basically Hermes..
> 
> ....and Tsunade is fucking Kratos. He doesn't stand a chance. His best option for defeating Tsunade would be backing the hell up and attempting Kamui, but unfortunately for him...



Except Hermes wasn't a ninja.

Aren't you forgetting that Part 1 Kabuto was out-manuvering Tsunade and tagging her?

Kakashi is much stronger than Part 1 Kabuto and he would do the same and Raikiri Tsunade's head off.


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## Rocky (Apr 2, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Except Hermes wasn't a ninja.



It was a general analogy to display that having a speed advantage isn't really enough in some cases, especially when you're opponent is tiers above you in physical strength.



> Aren't you forgetting that Part 1 Kabuto was out-manuvering Tsunade and tagging her?



Preskip Kabuto < Hemophobic Rusty Tsunade < Preskip Kabuto on pills < Rusty Tsunade 

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

War Arc Base Kakashi < Unrestricted War Tsunade.



> Kakashi is much stronger than Part 1 Kabuto and he would do the same and Raikiri Tsunade's head off.



Both Kakashi and Tsunade are far stronger than Preskip Kabuto.


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## Veracity (Apr 2, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Except Hermes wasn't a ninja.
> 
> Aren't you forgetting that Part 1 Kabuto was out-manuvering Tsunade and tagging her?
> 
> Kakashi is much stronger than Part 1 Kabuto and he would do the same and Raikiri Tsunade's head off.



Kabuto with soldier pulls stalemated an already exhausted rusty Tsunade. Then when she got serious she one paneled him and he was forced to use her phobia against her to survive.

Then she got even more serious and proceeded to blitz a 4.5 Oro more then once , one panel Manda, and basically dominate the entire battle. 

And Rusty Tsunade<<<<<<<< Current Tsunade so that doesn't matter. 

Basically what Rocky said .


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## trance (Apr 2, 2014)

Senjuclan said:


> Kakashi is becoming one of the most overrated characters now and at sundae is grossly underrated.
> 
> Base Kakashi does not have a single thing to defeat her with. She will obliterate him. Kakashi's only defense is clone feints. *While this works, he does not have the chakra to sustain it*. The minute Tsunade realizes that he hides his real body with doton to use kage bunshin, she can simply destroy the whole battlefield until she finds him and destroys him.
> 
> Tsunade wins low-mid difficulty





Kakashi fought two whole days while continuously using his Sharingan along with his Raikiri BEFORE confronting Obito where he began to extensively use his Kamui and even now, with nearly no rest at all, he is still pretty capable as shown from his ability to free move. 

Also, there's absolutely no way Tsunade is low-mid diffing base Kakashi. She probably wins but he's going to make it a bit chore for her.


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## joshhookway (Apr 2, 2014)

Rocky said:


> It was a general analogy to display that having a speed advantage isn't really enough in some cases, especially when you're opponent is tiers above you in physical strength.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Kabuto was outspeeding Tsunade before scaring Tsunade with blood. Tsunade caught Kabuto off guard since Kabuto wasn't looking for the kill. A killing mindset Kabuto would have decapitated Tsunade instead of rubbing his glasses.  

I don't get why you assume Tsunade has improved her speed.


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## ARGUS (Apr 2, 2014)

Tsunade wins this handily


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## Thunder (Apr 2, 2014)

Tsunade (sans Katsuyu) verses base Kakashi is already a match-up Tsunade can win more times than not. Tsunade is unrestricted here, though, so with Katsuyu as insurance I don't see how Kakashi is suppose to win this. 

Might wanna restrict her.


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## Veracity (Apr 2, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Kabuto was outspeeding Tsunade before scaring Tsunade with blood. Tsunade caught Kabuto off guard since Kabuto wasn't looking for the kill. A killing mindset Kabuto would have decapitated Tsunade instead of rubbing his glasses.
> 
> I don't get why you assume Tsunade has improved her speed.



The next panel later ; unnoticeable
We see Tsunade blitzing Kabuto.

Also his blink doesn't account for much( everyone creaking blinks) because Tsunade her her lungs completely severed which is a WAY larger handicap then freaking blinking.

It's also to note that Tsunade was already pre exhausted, that is the very reason Kabuto even guessed he had a chance in CQC with Tsunade; unnoticeable
He also used a soldier pill that enhanced his physical prowess.


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## Cord (Apr 3, 2014)

With Kakashi restricted to base, Tsunade should win this with her complete arsenal at hand. The former would already be hard pressed battling someone as skilled (in close quarters combat) and resilient as Tsunade. Adding her summon is going to be a nightmare especially when he has them both going around him. The divided attention is going to make this a lot more difficult for Kakashi. Granted that he's got the speed to potentially outmaneuver Tsunade along with a necessary offensive technique to put her down (with Raikiri)—he just isn't the type that's going to aim directly at someone's head right on. 

And since no knowledge has been specified in the OP, I'm just going to assume that both only know as much as they do in the manga. With Kakashi possibly not knowing about Tsunade's regenerative abilities. And that lack of knowledge would give the latter an advantage to put up a counter offense, potentially catching Kakashi off-guard in the process. If that fails, there's still Katsuyu to aid her in defense or distract him all the way through.

Even so,  I'm not entirely dismissing the possibility of Kakashi eventually learning the mechanics of Byakugo during the exchange and successfully landing a head shot on Tsunade. But those chances are measly due to the fact that he's facing two opponents at a time. Him coming out of this match _completely_ unscathed without his strongest jutsu against a Kage-level opponent, is next to impossible either.


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## joshhookway (Apr 3, 2014)

Thunder said:


> Tsunade (sans Katsuyu) verses base Kakashi is already a match-up Tsunade can win more times than not. Tsunade is unrestricted here, though, so with Katsuyu as insurance I don't see how Kakashi is suppose to win this.
> 
> Might wanna restrict her.



Kakashi can easily kill Katsuya with a suiton. Slugs are permeable and omosis will completely blow up Katsuya's cells


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## Thunder (Apr 3, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Kakashi can easily kill Katsuya with a suiton. Slugs are permeable and omosis will completely blow up Katsuya's cells



Admittedly I don't know much about slugs, but they can survive being completely submerged for a time. 

Suiton isn't the answer. And it would be pretty damn silly if it were. Kishimoto would never draw what you're describing.


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## Naiad (Apr 3, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Kakashi fought two whole days while continuously using his Sharingan along with his Raikiri BEFORE confronting Obito where he began to extensively use his Kamui and _*even now, with nearly no rest at all, he is still pretty capable as shown from his ability to free move. *_
> 
> Also, there's absolutely no way Tsunade is low-mid diffing base Kakashi. She probably wins but he's going to make it a bit chore for her.



i remember him getting chakra from kurama!


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## joshhookway (Apr 3, 2014)

Thunder said:


> Admittedly I don't know much about slugs, but they can survive being completely submerged for a time.
> 
> Suiton isn't the answer. And it would be pretty damn silly if it were. Kishimoto would never draw what you're describing.



Try cutting a portion of your palm and dipping it in water. Some of your cells will explode due to hypotonicity.

Slug skin is way more permeable than human flesh. Why does salt kill slugs?
Putting salt on a slug increases the concentration on the outside of the slug. Water from the slugs cells will then flow to the outside in an attempt to balance the concentrations. Most living organisms have some sort of resistance against osmotic pressures, but Slugs are very permeable, meaning it can easily lose a great deal of water if the surround concentration is very high and die.

Drenching a slug is the exact opposite of putting salt on it. The Slug's concentration would be much higher than the environment's. Water from the environment will enter at a very high rate until the slug's cells explode. Slugs can survive in water with similar concentrations, but assuming that a suiton in Naruto is pure H20, the slug is as good as dead.


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## Thunder (Apr 4, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Try cutting a portion of your palm and dipping it in water. Some of your cells will explode due to hypotonicity.
> 
> Slug skin is way more permeable than human flesh. Why does salt kill slugs?
> Putting salt on a slug increases the concentration on the outside of the slug. Water from the slugs cells will then flow to the outside in an attempt to balance the concentrations. Most living organisms have some sort of resistance against osmotic pressures, but Slugs are very permeable, meaning it can easily lose a great deal of water if the surround concentration is very high and die.
> ...



Let's step away from real world logic for a bit and go back to the manga. 

We know the Sannin became legendary figures during the Second Shinobi World War for two main reasons: 

1.) Fighting Hanzō.
2.) Summoning large animals.

While Kishimoto didn't tell us much about the situation as a whole we know Konoha battled extensively in Amegakure (where it always rains) leaving the area in ruins. Remember when Nagato killed those shinobi who murdered his parents? They were from Konoha. Anyway, Tsunade must have summoned Katsuyu in _at least_ _one_ of those skirmishes and I'm willing to bet she did so against Hanzō as he was riding on his own giant summon. A bit of speculation on my part, though you gotta admit it makes logical sense.

Even if you're right and water is the bane of Katsuyu, Kakashi can't generate enough of it to make a difference. It'd be a waste of chakra and would prove to be a fruitless endeavor since Tsunade will drain all of the water away by creating a fissure in the ground. We saw what she can do with one finger. Imagine if she actually tried.

I don't think you understand how difficult it will be for Kakashi to take on both of them at once, let alone individually. Also, you're not taking Tsunade's medical expertise into account here. Any injuries Katsuyu sustains will be healed up and that works both ways.

Kakashi has nothing on this duo.


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## joshhookway (Apr 4, 2014)

Thunder said:


> Let's step away from real world logic for a bit and go back to the manga.
> 
> We know the Sannin became legendary figures during the Second Shinobi World War for two main reasons:
> 
> ...



Your assumption does not consider two factors:
1. Rain Water is not pure water
2. The volume rate of flow of rain per area is extremely low

Kakashi has shown that he has more than enough chakra to generate enough water to kill Katsuyu.


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## Thunder (Apr 4, 2014)

You didn't address my other points, sir. And something tells me you're not willing to admit Tsunade wins reguardless of what I or anyone else says.

Without Katsuyu I can see a few scenarios Kakashi can win. But so long as she's available to Tsunade he's got no chance in my eyes, sorry. I appreciate the info you brought up about slugs, but it doesn't sit right with me that a slug as old as Katsuyu avoided Kakashi-level Suiton her entire life.


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## Cord (Apr 5, 2014)

Wow, we're really using real life Science here? Seriously? 



> Slug skin is way more permeable than human flesh. Why does salt kill slugs?
> Putting salt on a slug increases the concentration on the outside of the slug. Water from the slugs cells will then flow to the outside in an attempt to balance the concentrations. Most living organisms have some sort of resistance against osmotic pressures, but Slugs are very permeable, meaning it can easily lose a great deal of water if the surround concentration is very high and die.



1. Do you really think the author knows or even cares about how the concentration of water affects a slug? Or if in anyway, is he knowledgeable on the anatomy and physiology of such creature? 

2. Assuming he does know that salt water can kill real slugs (since it's pretty much a common knowledge), does Kakashi's suiton even contain salt?

3. Even if it does, do you think that a powerful boss summon who can spit massive pools of deadly acid, was intentionally designed by the author to fall against water *in fiction*?



> Drenching a slug is the exact opposite of putting salt on it. The Slug's concentration would be much higher than the environment's. Water from the environment will enter at a very high rate until the slug's cells explode. Slugs can survive in water with similar concentrations, but assuming that a suiton in Naruto is pure H20, the slug is as good as dead.



That is true. But does the concept of hypotonicity necessarily apply to it as well? Because I'm only familiar with how salt water can kill them. Nothing has been said about them being vulnerable to pure water.

Even if they are, Kakashi has yet to display a large scale-Suiton usage enough to submerge Katsuyu in her entirety. That'll be even harder to accomplish once Katsuyu starts dividing. But the biggest disadvantage that comes with that, is it allows Tsunade to capitalize. Without Kamui to eliminate the summon much easier, the divided attention that Kakashi has here is really going to hurt him.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 5, 2014)

Kakashi uses suiton, Noah's flood, combined with doton: rock salt.

I'm sure they're within his 1000 jutsus.  Maybe you and Thunder should give the copy ninja more credit.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Apr 5, 2014)

I think what is important to realise is that Kakashi already has significant knowledge on Tsunade. Subsequently, he isn't going to mess around testing her abilities, he can't afford to do that against her. Kakashi knows that one wrong move and he can take a critical injury, no matter how fleeting. A graze, poke or small splash of acid can have drastic effects on his battle performance. He has to set out to kill her quickly with bunshin/raikiri feints from the very outset of the match.

However, we also have to factor in that Tsunade has knowledge on pretty much everything Kakashi can do as well. She has several options:

1) Activate Byakugou and run into close range. If she's hit by Raikiri, she grabs his arm and pummels her fist into his fucking face. 

2) Summon Katsuyu and watch as she terrorises the battlefield in thousands of places at once.

3) Do both.

Kakashi's chances are slim. Even with an obvious speed advantage over her, he's nowhere near fast nor skilled enough to chop her head off. Tsunade's  anticipatory and evasive skills are high, evident by her 5 in the taijutsu stat. Failing that she can block or even parry his arm before it hits her. Then there's the plausible possibility of Katsuyu being able to reattach her head, Tsunade sealing it back in place with regeneration, and then ambushing Kakashi when he thinks she's dead.  

In a CQC exchange Tsunade is bound to take hits, but nothing that's going to kill her or even slow her down much. Kakashi can stall with smoke bombs, ninken, or bunshin, doton and Raikiri feints, but that's about all he can do. Tsunade has this match in the bag.



joshhookway said:


> Kakashi can easily kill Katsuya with a suiton



​​


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## joshhookway (Apr 5, 2014)

Cordelia said:


> That is true. But does the concept of hypotonicity necessarily apply to it as well? Because I'm only familiar with how salt water can kill them. Nothing has been said about them being vulnerable to pure water.



If you understand the concept of how salt water actually kills slugs, you'll realize that pure water will also kill slugs.

Same concept on why saltwater fish can't survive in freshwater. Their water concentrations will be too high for freshwater and osmostic pressures make their cells explode.

If gravity, friction, transfer of momentum, life cells, etc... exist in Naruto, then life sciences do apply to the Naruto verse.


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## Dr. White (Apr 5, 2014)

Kakashi wins IMO.
Tsunade is pretty one dimensional. A tank with ridiculous strength, her only variable is the electric trick that switches your limbs. On the other hand kakashi is one of the most versatile ninja with the physical stats to contend with her, and the means to put her down (raikiri). His intelligence is also highly favorable against her skillset. Kakashi has his clone game, elemental game for diversions/openings. Sharingan pre-cog allows him to evade her fist, and counter her as well. With Kakashi getting a firm boost in stamina I really can't see Tsunade winning more often than not.


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