# Admirals(One Piece) vs. Seven Deadly Sins(NnT)



## Lord Valgaav (Aug 12, 2018)

*Location: *Liones Kingdom
*Knowledge:* None
*Restrictions/Conditions: *Logia intangibility. Mel starts in base. Battle starts at noon. 
*Mindset:* Serious

*Admirals:*
Akainu
Kizaru
Aokiji
Fujitora

*SDS:*
Meliodas
Ban
Escanor 
King
Gowther


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## Fang (Aug 12, 2018)

Aren't the Admirals each at least continental level?


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## Keishin (Aug 12, 2018)

Fang said:


> Aren't the Admirals each at least continental level?


No way in hell..


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## Blαck (Aug 12, 2018)

Fang said:


> Aren't the Admirals each at least continental level?



It's up debate I guess because of shenanigans.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Claudio Swiss (Aug 12, 2018)

Fang said:


> Aren't the Admirals each at least continental level?


In durability 
Most of them should be island level


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 12, 2018)

Fang said:


> Aren't the Admirals each at least continental level?



Nope. Sakazuki is country level tho. 

Continental is possible Primebeard power not old and sick WB IIRC. Old and sick is country level.


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## Fang (Aug 12, 2018)

Keishin said:


> No way in hell..



Don't ever reply to me again.




Blαck said:


> It's up debate I guess because of shenanigans.





Claudio Swiss said:


> In durability
> Most of them should be island level



Weird.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Keishin (Aug 12, 2018)

Fang said:


> Don't ever reply to me again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A threat? Really?


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## Fang (Aug 12, 2018)

Keishin said:


> A threat? Really?



"Don't reply to me" is a *threat now?
*
No I don't want you replying to me because your posts are absolutely always fucking terrible.

>"threat elsewhere"

Lmao


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## Keishin (Aug 12, 2018)

Fang said:


> "Don't reply to me" is a *threat now?
> *
> No I don't want you replying to me because your posts are absolutely always fucking terrible.


Nice points houston, your reasoning is flawless.


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## Fang (Aug 12, 2018)

Keishin said:


> Nice points houston, your reasoning is flawless.



I need a translator to make sense of whatever the fuck you are saying.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Aug 12, 2018)

Keishin said:


> Nice points houston, your reasoning is flawless.



...I think you got your cliches crossed there pally


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## Sablés (Aug 12, 2018)

Fang said:


> Weird.


Whitebeard is small-continent level. His attacks can fuck up Admirals severely, but they can at least take one or two direct blows. Admirals can harm each other, but not nearly to that extent and WB is wanked above everything in MF, so people go with Island-country-level for the marines.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Affectugender (Aug 12, 2018)

Can't Gowther just mind fuck them?


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## Dellinger (Aug 13, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Whitebeard is small-continent level. His attacks can fuck up Admirals severely, but they can at least take one or two direct blows. Admirals can harm each other, but not nearly to that extent and WB is wanked above everything in MF, so people go with Island-country-level for the marines.


If severely means Akainu equally trading blows with him and taking half of his face in the next moment then sure


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## Blαck (Aug 13, 2018)

Dellinger said:


> If severely means Akainu equally trading blows with him and *taking half of his face in the next moment then sure*



Tbf wbs durability is wacky as shit. From bullet level to beyond.


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 13, 2018)

Sins would lose in a straight up brawl but Ban, Escanor and 5 Meliodas are enough of a Meatshield for Gowther to do his shenanigans. King will be an annoyance as well with his petrification. 

Sins win due to their ,meatshield being able to tank a couple blows, superb mindhax from gowther and no knowledge.

Depending how the next few chapters go where Gowther fights Mael it should be even more clear, assuming he is able to endure / tank 96 GT blows.


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## Keishin (Aug 13, 2018)

Gowther already lost an arm to a random beam


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 13, 2018)

When he wanted to die and atone for his sin. Now he has the resolve to fight.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 13, 2018)

There's a fucking panel of Sakazuki matching WB's power. 

Sakazuki solidly gets both DC and Dura IMO. Kuzan, Fujitora and Kizaru should get island level DC and Country level Dura(They aren't going to go down from one shot from WB no way in hell).


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## Mythoclast (Aug 13, 2018)

Gowther carries the team.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Aug 13, 2018)

gowther puts the team on his back


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## Dellinger (Aug 13, 2018)

Gowther accomplishing anything before getting into paste by the Admirals onslaught is laughable


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## Affectugender (Aug 13, 2018)

Why is OBD Wiki so shit? Like why is the speed sections filled with only MHS/Sub Rel/HS and not actual numbers? Wtf is MHS suppose to mean? Is Akinu Mach 50? Or is he Mach 7000? who the fuck knows. At least vswiki sometimes links the actual calc sometimes.

Edit: Also what is the Admirals sitting at on speed.


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## Dr. White (Aug 14, 2018)

Meliodas is oasis level, but with assault mode he becomes dance hall level. It all depends on how many hits gowther can take given his bear level durability.


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 14, 2018)

VitaminD said:


> yeah
> 
> Zoro is large house level since Alabasta



......I cant.


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## VitaminD (Aug 14, 2018)

Lord Valgaav said:


> ......I cant.




don't cry

who knows

One Piece characters might become stronger than Super Saiyan Goku in the future!


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## Mythoclast (Aug 14, 2018)

Dellinger said:


> Gowther accomplishing anything before getting into paste by the Admirals onslaught is laughable


He's mach 3600 with good range.He's more than capable of turning them into braindead vegetables before getting hit.


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## Keishin (Aug 14, 2018)

Mythoclast said:


> He's mach 3600 with good range.He's more than capable of turning them into braindead vegetables before getting hit.


Don't talk back to the wankers, you might get insta-negged. And they work in teams.


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## Affectugender (Aug 14, 2018)

Keishin said:


> Don't talk back to the wankers, you might get insta-negged. And they work in teams.



Is this an Irony?


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## Dellinger (Aug 14, 2018)

Yeah Gowthers hax has helped him win a fight against any opponent massively stronger than him.. Wait..


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 14, 2018)

Dellinger said:


> Yeah Gowthers hax has helped him win a fight against any opponent massively stronger than him.. Wait..



He defeated Escanor of all people.


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## Dellinger (Aug 14, 2018)

RavenSupreme said:


> He defeated Escanor of all people.


Huh ? The only reason Gowther won is because Escanors targets were Gloxinia and Dolor. He never intended to beat  Gowther. If Escanor really wanted to beat Gowther he’d just one shot him instantly instead of taking his glasses


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## Mythoclast (Aug 14, 2018)

Dellinger said:


> Yeah Gowthers hax has helped him win a fight against any opponent massively stronger than him.. Wait..


Mindfuck doesn't give a shit about your strength.
If they get tagged,they're done for.


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## Gunstarvillain (Aug 14, 2018)

Everyone is going to melt and be crushed by meteors.


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 14, 2018)

Gowther defeated a pseudo-sun Escanor. Should that even count?


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## GilDLax (Aug 14, 2018)

Ban Hunt Festival. Admirals got lot of physical strength stolen. And Ban uses his immortality to be meatshield. Mel Full Counter Logia attacks (he got his Sacred Treasure Lostvain, right?).
Since Logia intangibility is off and their physicality stolen, Noon Escanor would be able to fight some of them. 
King's arsenal is very versatile: lser, petrification, status promotion etc. He can also fight AoE.

I don't see why they can't stall Admirals for a good enough time for Gowther to mindfuck and that is like 2-3 seconds. Gowther can tag Galan. Hell, Gowther just needs to tag 1 Admiral and he can turn that Admiral against the others temporarily or do quite a few shits.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 14, 2018)

The Admirals Pre-Cog should level the playing field in speed(NNT's speed is marginally, by OBD standards, faster, the necessary speed to blitz is at least 20 times and NNT's speed advantage is in around 2 times faster).

So no. Gowther isn't fucking one, let alone four. 

Also, I believe him and King are the first ones to go out as they have poor dura in their own verses, leaving Ban, Meliodas and Escanor to fight four guys who have their dura in the Country level range.


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## GilDLax (Aug 14, 2018)

Admirals have CoO feat when? Even Fuji has only shown feeling people location


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## Keishin (Aug 14, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> The Admirals Pre-Cog should level the playing field in speed(NNT's speed is marginally, by OBD standards, faster, the necessary speed to blitz is at least 20 times and NNT's speed advantage is in around 2 times faster).
> 
> So no. Gowther isn't fucking one, let alone four.
> 
> Also, I believe him and King are the first ones to go out as they have poor dura in their own verses, leaving Ban, Meliodas and Escanor to fight four guys who have their dura in the Country level range.


Until we see Meliodas do something with 5x commandments they cant do much against supposed country levul durability.


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 14, 2018)

Keishin said:


> Until we see Meliodas do something with 5x commandments they cant do much against supposed country levul durability.



Full Counter, Revenge Counter, Gowther hax, petrification, Hunter Fest...

Theres plenty they can do even if the admirals durability is that high.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 14, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> Admirals have CoO feat when? Even Fuji has only shown feeling people location



Haki 101 with Professor Silvers Rayleigh: " Haki lets you know where your invisible enemy is, how many there are and what their next move will be ".

It's one of the basic aplications of Haki, fucking Satori knew that Luffy's arm would stretch before it actually did. Katakuri's is just in next level because of how much foresight it lets him have ahead of time.



Lord Valgaav said:


> Full Counter, Revenge Counter, Gowther hax, petrification, Hunter Fest...
> 
> Theres plenty they can do even if the admirals durability is that high.



As I said, King and Gowther are the two that are most liable to be wiped out with the large AoE from Admirals(Meteors showering from the sky and Fuji's gravity trying to pin them down + Shower of Magma Fists + Yasakani no Magatama + Kuzan trying to freeze them). 

The only ability that will serve a good purpose is Hunter Fest ... But for a while though ... As 1 - Ban has a limit to how much he can steal before he fucks up his own body  2 - After that he's fucking left with so little strength he can barely stand 3 - He needs to finish this in the time he's using Hunter Fest 4 - Fujitora's ability, Kuzan's ability, Kizaru's ability and Sakazuki's ability aren't all based in strength. The one who is most closely related to strength is Sakazuki's(Magma punches) but he can still make magma rain down.

The best shot for the NNT cast who isn't wiped out by the Admirals first AoE onslaught is Hunter Fest + Escanor using Cruel Sun(IIRC that's his most powerful ability) and both attack Meliodas and Melioda attacks one of the Admirals, killing him . Becoming himself, Meliodas, useless after using it all of his magic and Ban even more useless and Escanor fighting with three admirals.


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## Dr. White (Aug 14, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> The Admirals Pre-Cog should level the playing field in speed(NNT's speed is marginally, by OBD standards, faster, the necessary speed to blitz is at least 20 times and NNT's speed advantage is in around 2 times faster).
> 
> So no. Gowther isn't fucking one, let alone four.
> 
> Also, I believe him and King are the first ones to go out as they have poor dura in their own verses, leaving Ban, Meliodas and Escanor to fight four guys who have their dura in the Country level range.


Lmao no. Admirals have pre cog but are outnumbered. Gowther has tracking mindfuck arrows and was even able to slip a regular one on galan mid combat without him noticing. So yes there is a very real possibility dudes are getting mindfucked. Gowther can also mindfuck there creations like blue pheasent and red dog.

Gowther and king don't have bad durability. King has taken his own attacks fc'd back at him, and gowther has taken hits from dark/light mael.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 14, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Lmao no. Admirals have pre cog but are outnumbered. Gowther has tracking mindfuck arrows and was even able to slip a regular one on galan mid combat without him noticing. So yes there is a very real possibility dudes are getting mindfucked.



And sticking that shit to Galan mid battle is important because ? Does Galan have pre-cog ? Yeah, he doesn't. Pre-cog works wonders because of that.



> Gowther can also mindfuck there creations like blue pheasent and red dog.



And that is important because ? Those are just two of their abilities. Not to mention that they are both casual. Pretty much headcanon that they both can tank attacks of that magnitude for ten days straight. 



Dr. White said:


> Gowther and king don't have bad durability. King has taken his own attacks fc'd back at him, and gowther has taken hits from dark/light mael.



I'm pretty sure that King has been trashed by pretty much every attack thrown at him, including the FC from Chandler, he got fucked up. And wasn't Gowther hurt by those hits ?


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## Steven (Aug 14, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Haki 101 with Professor Silvers Rayleigh: " Haki lets you know where your invisible enemy is, how many there are and what their next move will be ".
> 
> It's one of the basic aplications of Haki, fucking Satori knew that Luffy's arm would stretch before it actually did. Katakuri's is just in next level because of how much foresight it lets him have ahead of time.
> 
> ...


Meliodas can soulsteal


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 14, 2018)

While Galan doesn't have pre-cog, his senses are great enough to where he was able to avoid getting BFR by Merlin when he sensed her magic and got the fuck away. 

Yet he couldn't avoid getting hit by Gowther.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 14, 2018)

Lord Valgaav said:


> Yet he couldn't avoid getting hit by Gowther.



Yeah, it's not like he has something telling him what the future will be like so he can dodge it right ? If only someone in the admiral side had that ability, oh wait, they all have that.


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## Dr. White (Aug 14, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> And sticking that shit to Galan mid battle is important because ? Does Galan have pre-cog ? Yeah, he doesn't. Pre-cog works wonders because of that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you seriously asking this stupid ass question? Galan's battle senses spit on the admirals lmao. He's much more competant as a cqc fighter. Demons can sense for hundreds of miles lol and gowther was right in his vicinity when he sniped.

Stop acting like their cqc is some god tier shit, when someone better like katakuri can still be tagged by mach 1900 luffy in a 1v1, let alone being outnumbered in a chaotic battle.

Irrelevant lmao? Most of their named projectiles can be controller and sent back at them. How the fuck is that irrelevant to you 

"Gets wrecked" yet is still able to keep going? Weren't you just trying to sell some crazy akainu scaling for him "being able to fight" after whitebeard pushed his shit in and sent him for a crevice nap? Double standards mi amigo?


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## Dr. White (Aug 14, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Yeah, it's not like he has something telling him what the future will be like so he can dodge it right ? If only someone in the admiral side had that ability, oh wait, they all have that.


Someone needs to re-read pt. 1 Sasuke vs Rock Lee


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 14, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Yeah, it's not like he has something telling him what the future will be like so he can dodge it right ? If only someone in the admiral side had that ability, oh wait, they all have that.



Galan's senses told him to run away as far as possible to avoid BFR. Even though he'd never seen her do it before. Yet he was still tagged by Gowther despite said senses. 

I don't see how admirals CoO do any better considering its still just hypersense.


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 14, 2018)

People severely underestimating the wonders a Mach 3.600 high level mindhaxer can do against Mach 1.900 people who have neither mind hax resistance or even knowledge of the guy

That precog argument is the only thing keeping the conversation going despite it’s shown limits from a top tier precog user

It’s really irritating. Gowther carries


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## Affectugender (Aug 14, 2018)

Lord Valgaav said:


> Full Counter, Revenge Counter, Gowther hax, petrification, Hunter Fest...
> 
> Theres plenty they can do even if the admirals durability is that high.


Not how it works. Every Admiral here is country on DC. Melidos tries to counter anything straight on he will get murdered. Hunter isn't going to be too much of a factor here either as most of them are logias and have limitless stamina. Petrification isn't working again due to them having full control of thier body. 

Only thing that will work is Gowther hax which will carry this battle.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 14, 2018)

Lord Valgaav said:


> Galan's senses told him to run away as far as possible to avoid BFR. Even though he'd never seen her do it before. Yet he was still tagged by Gowther despite said senses.
> 
> I don't see how admirals CoO do any better considering its still just hypersense.



I prefer having a specific sense and know what's gonna happen rather than a general sense of danger. 



Dr. White said:


> Someone needs to re-read pt. 1 Sasuke vs Rock Lee



I know, pre-cog doesn't matter if you can't match speed. But we aren't talking fast enough to blitz, by no means. 2x faster isn't enough to blitz, hell, 10 times faster isn't enough to blitz. So stop the " It's impossible for him to react", no it's not impossible for them to react. Even more with the info given by CoO, that, again HAKI 101 WITH SILVERS FUCKING RAYLEIGH: "It let's you know where your invisible enemy is, how many there are and what their next move will be", even revealing shit like what their attacks is like(In example earlier, Satori fucking SATORI, knew that Luffy was going to stretch before ever meeting Luffy).

On a side note, you could've used that fight(Sanji and Luffy vs Satori) to address the point of pre-cog doesn't mean you'll be able to match the speed. It's a better example because Sasuke's isn't exactly pre-cog.



Dr. White said:


> Are you seriously asking this stupid ass question? Galan's battle senses spit on the admirals lmao



How can you fucking say that ? Which is better to know: what your opponent will do next _specifically_ or have a general knowledge of when the enemy will attack ? Literally, CoO gives you way more info than some generic battle sense. Specific info.



Dr. White said:


> Demons can sense for hundreds of miles lol and gowther was right in his vicinity when he sniped.



To sense someone from long range, yes, Galan's sensoring abilities are better. Agreed, that wasn't my point.



Dr. White said:


> Stop acting like their cqc is some god tier shit, when someone better like katakuri can still be tagged by mach 1900 luffy in a 1v1, let alone being outnumbered in a chaotic battle.



We have seen their CQC only against well ... The strongest man in the world, so yes, their CQC is good enough to avoid getting smashed into nothing by WB. Also: Level vs Quality here. Galan is faster than Admirals(IIRC he gets the scaling), therefore his reactions are better. Doesn't mean that his power has more quality. Let me ask you: do you prefer, in a fight, know, generally when someone is going to throw a punch OR do you prefer to know when, with which hand, at which angle and where it'll connect ? Galan's sensing is the former, CoO is the latter.



Dr. White said:


> Irrelevant lmao? Most of their named projectiles can be controller and sent back at them. How the fuck is that irrelevant to you



Magma fists ? Gravity ? METEORS ?



Dr. White said:


> "Gets wrecked" yet is still able to keep going?



He got fucked like he was fodder by his own power(I think it was doubled tho). 



Dr. White said:


> Weren't you just trying to sell some crazy akainu scaling for him "being able to fight" after whitebeard pushed his shit in and sent him for a crevice nap? Double standards mi amigo?



Sakazuki wasn't "able to fight". He was in way better shape than "able to fight". He was figthing a first mate(Marco), Vista and some other Haki users while complaining that their Haki was, and I quote," irritating ". 

That's like if ... King got attacked by Demon King with his full power and went on to fight against someone on the calliber of Meliodas. 

Also, nap ? Show me evidence Sakazuki was knocked out ? He was knocked over, not knocked out. Sakazuki effectively got tagged by the strongest person in the entire series during his rage moment and still went on to fight top tiers like nothing happened.


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## Keishin (Aug 14, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> Not how it works. Every Admiral here is country on DC. Melidos tries to counter anything straight on he will get murdered. Hunter isn't going to be too much of a factor here either as most of them are logias and have limitless stamina. Petrification isn't working again due to them having full control of thier body.
> 
> Only thing that will work is Gowther hax which will carry this battle.


Meliodas's clones can try FC as well .


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 14, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> Not how it works. Every Admiral here is country on DC. Melidos tries to counter anything straight on he will get murdered. Hunter isn't going to be too much of a factor here either as most of them are logias and have limitless stamina. Petrification isn't working again due to them having full control of thier body.
> 
> Only thing that will work is Gowther hax which will carry this battle.



They're country for durability, not DC.

And logia intangibility is off so they can still be hit and petrified, etc.

Although now that I think about it, the demon's darkness can null intangibility anyway as shown with Estarossa vs. Tarmiel. Not that it matters since its off here.

@Mr. Black Leg  whether specific or general, you still know the attack is coming.

But again, Galan didn't know at all that he'd gotten fucked over till much later. The same guy who anticipated a finger snap sending him sailing.

If we were talking about something like UI or Intuition from Toriko then I'd see your point. But here the admirals CoO really isnt any better than the TC senses.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 14, 2018)

Lord Valgaav said:


> They're country for durability, not DC.
> 
> And logia intangibility is off so they can still be hit and petrified, etc.
> 
> ...



I think you were refering to me(Mr. Black Leg) not to Black Leg Sanji, that's a different poster. 

CoO is literally headcanon the ability to tell what your opponent's gonna do next. UI is the ability to react without the need to acknowledge. Intuition from Toriko I don't remember what it is. 

If you ever practiced a martial art, remember that you were always expecting a kick, a punch, etc. But the hard thing to do is to know which one attack will come from what part of the body and what angle. 

I can throw you different types of punches from my arm doing the same movement, boxers are specialists in hiding the type of punch and using weird angles to fuck you from every possible direction, for example. If you telegraph your punch it is easy enough to dodge, even if your opponent is slower. That's why the sense in NNT is nothing big. Because knowing your opponent is going to attack isn't much of a big advantage. Now, knowing when they are going to attack and from which limb, what kind, of attack and shit like that is important. Let me show you an example: GSP had a set up in which you didn't know if he was going for a punch or a two leg take down. If you have the TC's senses, you know when he's going to attack all right, but if you fall for his trick of it being a punch and it ends up being a take down, your sense was useless, now with CoO you would know whether it is a punch or a take down that GSP was trying to use. Pretty silly example but I think it works.


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## Kaaant (Aug 14, 2018)

What is Kizaru’s attack speed.


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 14, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> I think you were refering to me(Mr. Black Leg) not to Black Leg Sanji, that's a different poster.
> 
> CoO is literally headcanon the ability to tell what your opponent's gonna do next. UI is the ability to react without the need to acknowledge. Intuition from Toriko I don't remember what it is.
> 
> ...



Eh, you're both black. 

Anyway I see what you're saying. That as a general, CoO would be superior since it actually gets specific on whats coming. And that's fine if we're talking about one of King's attacks or even a FC. 

But for Gowther all it will tell them is that his arrows/darts are coming. They still don't know what it does, and if they're so proud of their durability are more likely to try tanking or blocking. When that happens they're fucked.


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## Affectugender (Aug 14, 2018)

Lord Valgaav said:


> They're country for durability, not DC.
> 
> And logia intangibility is off so they can still be hit and petrified, etc.
> 
> Although now that I think about it, the demon's darkness can null intangibility anyway as shown with Estarossa vs. Tarmiel. Not that it matters since its off here.



They are continent level for Dura

Just checked Admirals is Island + not country but Melidos is still city so he can't FC shit here.

Also, where did you get the idea demon's darkness can nullify intangibility? 

You know Admirals have regens right? Or did you turn that off too?  

Like I said the only thing working is Gowther and I guess petrification other than that the Sins have no way to harm the Admirals.


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 14, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> They are continent level for Dura
> 
> Just checked Admirals is Island + not country but Melidos is still city so he can't FC shit here.
> 
> ...



Bruh...how behind on NnT are you? :S

Mel hasn't been city level since he got all his powers back. Since then even in base he's been able to solo the TC who're all island level. Thats before AM.

Go reread the Estarossa vs. Tarmiel and Sariel fight to see him negate Tarmiel's water intangibility. 

Mel also used Hellblaze back in their early years to harm Ban and he still has the scars from it. So yeah, he can effect regeneration and intangibility. 

Logia don't really regenerate. They just turn back into their element and reform. Regeneration would be if someone with Haki harmed them and they magically returned to full health. With intangibility off they don't have that benefit and everyone here can hit them. Without it off, Mel would still be able to hit them with Hellblaze and darkness.


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## Affectugender (Aug 14, 2018)

Lord Valgaav said:


> Bruh...how behind on NnT are you? :S
> 
> Mel hasn't been city level since he got all his powers back. Since then even in base he's been able to solo the TC who're all island level. Thats before AM.
> 
> ...



Read my earlier comment.


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 14, 2018)

Tarmiel is a water intangible:
 Feedback doesnt have white glowing stars on his body. 

Esta nulls it with darkness:
 Feedback doesnt have white glowing stars on his body. 

As for Mel and Ban, the proof is on Ban's body 24/7.


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## Dr. White (Aug 14, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> I know, pre-cog doesn't matter if you can't match speed. But we aren't talking fast enough to blitz, by no means. 2x faster isn't enough to blitz, hell, 10 times faster isn't enough to blitz.


10x is the blitzing gap/.

Idk why you think "blitzing" is the only way they can be hit. AOE, misdirection, illusions, redirection, distractions, being overwhelmed, etc can all result in them being hit. Admirals have been hit before like when Marco blinsided Aokiji, when Jozu blindsided him, Shanks straight up intercepted blooudlusted Akainu from who knows where, Akainu/Vista damaging Akainu. etc/. The admirals are plenty capable of getting hit since they are putnumbered and slightly outsped. 



> So stop the " It's impossible for him to react", no it's not impossible for them to react. Even more with the info given by CoO, that, again HAKI 101 WITH SILVERS FUCKING RAYLEIGH: "It let's you know where your invisible enemy is, how many there are and what their next move will be", even revealing shit like what their attacks is like(In example earlier, Satori fucking SATORI, knew that Luffy was going to stretch before ever meeting Luffy).


I never said it's impossible for the admirals to react/ I said chances are good that some people get mindfucked. I know what CoO does and bar top tier users like Katakuri it's still inferior to top tier demon sensing.



> On a side note, you could've used that fight(Sanji and Luffy vs Satori) to address the point of pre-cog doesn't mean you'll be able to match the speed. It's a better example because Sasuke's isn't exactly pre-cog.


My general point is that even if you see something coming, doesn't mean you can autoreact. 





> How can you fucking say that ? Which is better to know: what your opponent will do next _specifically_ or have a general knowledge of when the enemy will attack ? Literally, CoO gives you way more info than some generic battle sense. Specific info.


The admirals possessing CoO does not mitigate how dangerous Galan is with his base sensing. You are trying to argue that because the admirals have that, it makes sayyy Meliodas decimating Galan in a second with multiple slashes before he could react, is somehow irrelevant to the slower admirals? That's stupid. 




> To sense someone from long range, yes, Galan's sensoring abilities are better. Agreed, that wasn't my point.


Did you miss him swerve a bfr from point blank?




> We have seen their CQC only against well ... The strongest man in the world, so yes, their CQC is good enough to avoid getting smashed into nothing by WB.


He was dying, having heart attacks, and the top admiral had him stabbed in the chest. WB is more about power than skill, and galan has him on experience by decades. Even someone like Marco can tango with them in CqC and he certainly isn't WB level.




> Also: Level vs Quality here. Galan is faster than Admirals(IIRC he gets the scaling), therefore his reactions are better. Doesn't mean that his power has more quality. Let me ask you: do you prefer, in a fight, know, generally when someone is going to throw a punch OR do you prefer to know when, with which hand, at which angle and where it'll connect ? Galan's sensing is the former, CoO is the latter.


Once again there advantage in the category is minimal at best, and you realize that sensing does tell someone where the source is coming from correct? Galan was good enough to dodge bfr, and absolutely decimate the sins he fought with amazing battle sense, and he feels their spiritual energy. So you trying to say this makes the admirals some beast that aren't getting tagged is nonsense.





> Magma fists ? Gravity ? METEORS ?


Gowther can't handle everything and good thing Mel has full counter for the other shit, or just destroying it with idk something like this thing






> He got fucked like he was fodder by his own power(I think it was doubled tho).


He got hit with double his own power. So how the fuck is that trash durability if eh could still fight? This being against 1 person in a duo that has more strength than the 10c themselves? 





> Sakazuki wasn't "able to fight". He was in way better shape than "able to fight". He was figthing a first mate(Marco), Vista and some other Haki users while complaining that their Haki was, and I quote," irritating ".


After WB took his soul and had him schleep in a crevice for a grip. King wasn't down and out either. So double standards much?



> That's like if ... King got attacked by Demon King with his full power and went on to fight against someone on the calliber of Meliodas.


What does this have to do with King's durability? I never said it was as good. Just refuting your claim that it is trash/



> Also, nap ? Show me evidence Sakazuki was knocked out ? He was knocked over, not knocked out. Sakazuki effectively got tagged by the strongest person in the entire series during his rage moment and still went on to fight top tiers like nothing happened.


That's a fun way to spin it that goes against the whole portrayal of the scene and akainu's whole strategy vs him/


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## Mythoclast (Aug 14, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> How much giga is he on?


46-92



> Scan?






> I been hearing a lot of Hellblae negating regen can you show me some scans?


Ban can regenerate from shit like getting reduced to a puddle of blood and being burnt to a pile of ash,but couldn't regen from Hellblaze. 




> Until you show me a scan of Mel using it that skill is out of Mel's hand.


That's not how it works pal.It's a technique innate to every member of his race.PIS/CIS is the only reason he refrains from using it,but that doesn't apply in a bloodlusted scenario.


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## Gunstarvillain (Aug 14, 2018)

Mythoclast said:


> That's not how it works pal.It's a technique innate to every member of his race.PIS/CIS is the only reason he refrains from using it,but that doesn't apply in a bloodlusted scenario.



It's like saying Juha can use all scrifts just because kubo said they were all his in the first place.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 14, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> I never said it's impossible for the admirals to react/ I said chances are good that some people get mindfucked. I know what CoO does and bar top tier users like Katakuri it's still inferior to *top tier demon sensing*.



I fucking doubt that. It just does not give you the same info that CoO does. If it did, then I'd agree. The only thing you proved is that it has better range, because, otherwise, IN A REAL LIFE, I doubt you would want the demon sensing instead of CoO, for example. And it would come in handy for any NNT char to have battle pre-cog.



Dr. White said:


> My general point is that even if you see something coming, doesn't mean you can autoreact.



Agreed.



Dr. White said:


> The admirals possessing CoO does not mitigate how dangerous Galan is with his base sensing. You are trying to argue that because the admirals have that, it makes sayyy Meliodas decimating Galan in a second with multiple slashes before he could react, is somehow irrelevant to the slower admirals? That's stupid.



It is irrelevant in the sense that they are stuck to their speed. Luffy also blitzed the shit out of Doflamingo who's already mach 1948(From quite the distance actually). But I'm not briging that up here because it is irrelevant. It doesn't upgrade their speeds.



Dr. White said:


> Did you miss him swerve a bfr from point blank?



It doesn't result in actual speed upgrade. It's the same as asking " Did you see Luffy blitzing Doflamingo from far out in the sky ?".



Dr. White said:


> He was dying, having heart attacks, and the top admiral had him stabbed in the chest. WB is more about power than skill, and galan has him on experience by decades. Even someone like Marco can tango with them in CqC and he certainly isn't WB level.



You are really trying to QUANTIFY SKILL ? Damn, I expected more from you really. Not to mention that it was severely implied that WB could get by with his strength alone, he wasn't reliant on his DF, as he painfully noted to BB.



Dr. White said:


> Gowther can't handle everything and good thing Mel has full counter for the other shit, or just destroying it with idk something like this thing



Meliodas can FC Magma Fists AND Meteors that are physical ? Not to mention gravity ? If he could repel gravity couldn't he ... Just you know, fly by denying gravity ? I don't think that was ever shown ?



Dr. White said:


> Once again there advantage in the category is minimal at best, and you realize that sensing does tell someone where the source is coming from correct?



Yes, I do, as I said: the sensing beats CoO in range.



Dr. White said:


> Galan was good enough to dodge bfr, and absolutely decimate the sins he fought with amazing battle sense, and he feels their spiritual energy. So you trying to say this makes the admirals some beast that aren't getting tagged is nonsense.



Refer to: this shit is impossible to calc as it involves calc stacking.



Dr. White said:


> He got hit with double his own power. So how the fuck is that trash durability if eh could still fight? This being against 1 person in a duo that has more strength than the 10c themselves?



I'm sorry but he has been portrayed to have shitty dura for the entirety of the series. He might have some of the best firepower but he
isn't the type to tank attacks easily like Mel, Escanor or Ban. Those can tank things .



Dr. White said:


> After WB took his soul and had him schleep in a crevice for a grip. King wasn't down and out either. So double standards much?



But King wasn't up and ragdolling another top tier in minutes. Calling them "irritating".



Dr. White said:


> What does this have to do with King's durability? I never said it was as good. Just refuting your claim that it is trash/



It was considered trash. The probelm was always getting past Chastiefol. Hurting him after that was easy.



Dr. White said:


> That's a fun way to spin it that goes against the whole portrayal of the scene and akainu's whole strategy vs him/



He was fucking complaining about how the Haki users were irritating and trying to stop the inexorable from happening. Just delaying what was coming to Luffy.

Was Sakazuki hurt by WB's attack ? Yes, but Sakazuki was up for battle once he got back at the plaza. Ragdolling a fucking FIRST MATE. He wasn't ragdolling Pre TS Luffy or a Shichibukai. It was a First Mate. He effectively just took probably the most powerful strike in the series up until now and he was literally in perfect conditions to laugh at other top tiers.



Here, I'm not giving my spin to it or anything. That's literally what happened . This is some serious durability feat for Sakazuki.



Lord Valgaav said:


> Eh, you're both black.
> 
> Anyway I see what you're saying. That as a general, CoO would be superior since it actually gets specific on whats coming. And that's fine if we're talking about one of King's attacks or even a FC.
> 
> But for Gowther all it will tell them is that his arrows/darts are coming. They still don't know what it does, and if they're so proud of their durability are more likely to try tanking or blocking. When that happens they're fucked.



As per OBD usual, PIS is off. They aren't going to sit there and let them attack. And even if it was on, Sakazuki isn't the type to do that ... Kuzan and Kizaru are though.


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## Affectugender (Aug 14, 2018)

Mythoclast said:


> 46-92



Ha, just low island lvl than. Mel is still not FC anything here. 







Mythoclast said:


> Ban can regenerate from shit like getting reduced to a puddle of blood and being burnt to a pile of ash,but couldn't regen from Hellblaze.



Ok guess its true but still doesn't matter because of island lvl DC vs continent lvl Dura :/



Mythoclast said:


> That's not how it works pal.It's a technique innate to every member of his race.PIS/CIS is the only reason he refrains from using it,but that doesn't apply in a bloodlusted scenario.



That is how it works pal. Look at Gunstar's example.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Aug 15, 2018)

why did this convo go beyond gowther


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 15, 2018)

Meliodas is 96 gigatons. That’s not low island level. From what I understand 84 GT is what the admirals get scaled to

So yes, he can full counter. 

And obviously Meliodas, as a top tier demon gets soul steal scaled to him when we have seen it being casually performed by literally fodder red demons, Ten Commandments and have the confirmation it’s a way for demons to replenish their magic power 

Being able to full counter, being able to soul steal, being twice as fast 

Meliodas alone is a troublesome meatshield and can survive long enough for Gowther to mindhax all admirals at the same time - which is a casual feat for him 

Thrown in Escanor who is equally strong but without the soul steal or full counter 

And throw in ban who zero sign + hunter fest + immortality annoys whatever admiral he decided to fight 

And throw in king who chills so high up in the air that whoever admiral wants to fight him has no means to reach him easily while having to prevent getting hit from a petrifying chastiefol 

And the likelihood of Gowther being successful is more than given 

Without Gowther things would end up dirty maybe and the odds for the sins wouldn’t be all that great due to the sheer durability / endurance difference 

But with Gowther that shit gets bypassed easily


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## Kaaant (Aug 15, 2018)

RavenSupreme said:


> Meliodas is 96 gigatons. That’s not low island level. From what I understand 84 GT is what the admirals get scaled to
> 
> So yes, he can full counter.



Isn’t the entire basis of 96 gigatons originating from full countering a much weaker attack. What’s going to happen when he does it again? This seems like something that does not fly in any other series, DBZ for example.


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## Kaaant (Aug 15, 2018)

Why is akainu lowballed so much when he not only took WB’s attacks but blew off half his head. Then punched a hole in his chest.


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 15, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> Isn’t the entire basis of 96 gigatons originating from full countering a much weaker attack. What’s going to happen when he does it again? This seems like something that does not fly in any other series, DBZ for example.



I dont know the specifics for other series and how their multipliers work. In regards to NNT it was however not a problem since we dont run in the problem of how the multiplication affects stat distribution. Its not an overly generalized times X getting stronger which leaves us with questions as of how much is distributed to speed, to strenght, to durability etc. (like for example Kaikoen is such a general multiplier) but it was explicity and solely stated to work on one thing only: incoming atk power is reinforced by at least factor 2 and send back to point of origin. There is no questionable other multiplication involved. Its not like a Kaioken, A Bankai or similar things but an explicit technique working only on technique.

It was from: Getting attacked by 48GT -> FC -> Exploding in immediate proxomity -> no harm at all for all involved from that attack but they could harm each other with punches and slices if i recall the fight correctly.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 15, 2018)

RavenSupreme said:


> Meliodas is 96 gigatons. That’s not low island level. From what I understand 84 GT is what the admirals get scaled to



Yes, in DC.



RavenSupreme said:


> So yes, he can full counter.



Not Sakazuki's attacks, Kuzan's attacks nor Fujitora's, as they are all physical, and, in Fujitora's case, I doubt that he can Full Counter the force of gravity, he's never done so in the manga. He can with Kizaru's tho. 



RavenSupreme said:


> And obviously Meliodas, as a top tier demon gets soul steal scaled to him when we have seen it being casually performed by literally fodder red demons, Ten Commandments and have the confirmation it’s a way for demons to replenish their magic power



I have my reservations about this shit. 
1 - How is Mel going to do that ? 




RavenSupreme said:


> Meliodas alone is a troublesome meatshield and can survive long enough for Gowther to mindhax all admirals at the same time - which is a casual feat for him



Not for Sakazuki who can lay out more power than he can FC and his(Melioda's) ability doesn't even work against physical attacks.



RavenSupreme said:


> Thrown in Escanor who is equally strong but without the soul steal or full counter



"Thrown Escanor who also can't harm the Admirals, and will get bodied by one generic admiral level who can tank everything and then lay down the pain "



RavenSupreme said:


> And throw in ban who zero sign + hunter fest + immortality annoys whatever admiral he decided to fight



As I said earlier Hunter Fest is the most useless thing in his arsenal. Sure's gonna get amped a few minutes. Then he becomes useless without the admirals even needing to touch him. Also lol, Zero Sign will be less than useful against CoO. Remember Rayleigh's speech: " Invisible enemies, how many there are, and what they'll do next". 



RavenSupreme said:


> And throw in king who chills so high up in the air that whoever admiral wants to fight him has no means to reach him easily while having to prevent getting hit from a petrifying chastiefol



Yeah, there isn't something like an Admiral who can take out a chunk of the floor and fly, right ?  



RIGHT ? 

AND IT'S COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE FOR FUJITORA AND THE OTHER THREE ADMIRALS TO JUST HANG OUT THERE AND DISH OUT THE PUNISHMENT FROM ABOVE, WHICH IS A FAR BETTER IDEA THAN GOING INTO CQC AGAINST AN UNKNOWN OPPONENT, RIGHT ?

BECAUSE THEY AREN'T AT ALL ... MASTER TACTICIANS, RIGHT ?

RIGHT ? 

And it's not like the form of Chastiefol is a giant teddy bear that has to grip on, in this case, far stronger opponents, who are all more durable and it will be a challenge alone holding them, let alone piercing. 

Right ?

And it's not like the two most widely known Rokushiki abilities are Geppo and Soru, and some chapters ago someone literally said that a "basic ability like kicking the sky is nothing to be proud of " to Sanji, right ?



RavenSupreme said:


> And the likelihood of Gowther being successful is more than given



And the likelihood of someone who doesn't possess the raw power of Escanor or Mel is to get smashed by magma fists and meteors from above.



RavenSupreme said:


> Without Gowther things would end up dirty maybe and the odds for the sins wouldn’t be all that great due to the sheer durability / endurance difference
> 
> But with Gowther that shit gets bypassed easily



I'm glad you admitted. Because that's what is going to happen. 



Kaaant said:


> Isn’t the entire basis of 96 gigatons originating from full countering a much weaker attack. What’s going to happen when he does it again? This seems like something that does not fly in any other series, DBZ for example.



GOD, YES, OH YEAH. 

Abilities like Sunny's Furaigaeshi ARE NEVER GIVEN THIS TREATMENT IN THE OBD, and Furaigaeshi has the same mechanics and the same fucking premisse of FC. That's why I always say that there's a deep, very fucking deep, NNT wanking in the OBD. We _never_ allow multipliers to be used in conjunction with calcs. NEVER. DBZ, Superman, Toriko, you name the fucking fiction and at some point people have said " lolnope " to multipliers. We NEVER, EVER, use multipliers in the OBD. 

But god forbid if we don't allow multipliers for NNT. They are wanked in this forum to hell's end. Like Merlin's Perfect Cube, that can resist anything entering it, or how Merlin can teleport the fucking planet as it seems when talked about in this forum. I like NNT, I prefer to read it on a binge and not weekly, but I like NNT a lot. But god, oh god, the wank. Literally, using multipliers is a subversion of one of the rules in this forum that is set in stone, from the golden age of the Phenom Brigade that shit like multipliers don't fly in this forum.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Aug 15, 2018)

You sound like a little child.Calm down dude

Nobody was condescending here in any way


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 15, 2018)

RavenSupreme said:


> I dont know the specifics for other series and how their multipliers work. In regards to NNT it was however not a problem since we dont run in the problem of how the multiplication affects stat distribution. Its not an overly generalized times X getting stronger which leaves us with questions as of how much is distributed to speed, to strenght, to durability etc. (like for example Kaikoen is such a general multiplier) but it was explicity and solely stated to work on one thing only: incoming atk power is reinforced by at least factor 2 and send back to point of origin. There is no questionable other multiplication involved. Its not like a Kaioken, A Bankai or similar things but an explicit technique working only on technique.
> 
> It was from: Getting attacked by 48GT -> FC -> Exploding in immediate proxomity -> no harm at all for all involved from that attack but they could harm each other with punches and slices if i recall the fight correctly.



You know that ... That is not the reason why we don't allow multipliers, right ? We don't because they are a fucking joke and the author has fuck all ability to know how much it was the increase of power, right ?

Like, for example, the author(Through it's character) may say " This attack is 10x faster than the last one " and the calculated figure is around 200x faster. Or the contrary, the author(Through it's character) may say " This attack is 10x faster than the last one " and, it's actually calculated to be actually slower than the other one(In this case, it gets the other ability's scaling).

The author knows jack shit about calcs. That's why statements by the characters are almost always not dealt with as if it was truth. Shit like "This attack is the speed of light" is always taken with a grain of salt, and not a little grain of salt, a big one at that, statements like " this can flatten a mountain ". Multipliers are the same. We don't use them, because, imagine if, I don't know, Meliodas FC's one guy's attack, and that guy's attack was established to be exactly 100 Mt, but the FC'd attack is calced at 100000 Gt. THIS SHIT HAPPENS, A LOT. And that's why we don't use multipliers, not because of distributing strength. If that was the problem, then many series would have multipliers accepted to them. We don't because, essentially, mixing author's(And character's) statements with calcs is a recipe for disaster. I still remember that one character from bleach that claimed to have a punch or an attack with I-don't-know-how-many-joules and the character was clearly waaaaaaaaaay stronger than that. That's why we don't use statements, be it of multipliers or be it something like "Lightspeed", at face value.

Edit:



Acnologia said:


> You sound like a little child.Calm down dude
> 
> Nobody was condescending here in any way



THAT IS ... Fair enough. @RavenSupreme, @Lord Valgaav and @Dr. White I'm sorry if I was rude at any point, you weren't rude with me, so I shouldn't be with you.


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## Kaaant (Aug 15, 2018)

RavenSupreme said:


> I dont know the specifics for other series and how their multipliers work. In regards to NNT it was however not a problem since we dont run in the problem of how the multiplication affects stat distribution. Its not an overly generalized times X getting stronger which leaves us with questions as of how much is distributed to speed, to strenght, to durability etc. (like for example Kaikoen is such a general multiplier) but it was explicity and solely stated to work on one thing only: incoming atk power is reinforced by at least factor 2 and send back to point of origin. There is no questionable other multiplication involved. Its not like a Kaioken, A Bankai or similar things but an explicit technique working only on technique.



Kaioken is explicitly stated to multiply all stats tho. I don’t see how it’s different.

I have no issue with it at face value but for years it’s never flown in other series.



RavenSupreme said:


> It was from: Getting attacked by 48GT -> FC -> Exploding in immediate proxomity -> no harm at all for all involved from that attack but they could harm each other with punches and slices if i recall the fight correctly.



And what if the attack is used again? Will everyone scalable’s base strength be almost 200 gigatons? It seems ripe for wank and exploitation imo. Beyond the wank that already infests the series.


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## Kaaant (Aug 15, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> Why is akainu lowballed so much when he not only took WB’s attacks but blew off half his head. Then punched a hole in his chest.



Surely you need small continent dc to even scratch wb if this is the firepower he is packing. This was when he wasn’t even mad as hell iirc. Akainu hurt him twice and if Mel were in the same position and so much as tickled the hairs on a guy’s ballsack of the same power we wouldn’t be having this conversation.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 15, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> Surely you need small continent dc to even scratch wb if this is the firepower he is packing. This was when he wasn’t even mad as hell iirc. Akainu hurt him twice and if Mel were in the same position and so much as tickled the hairs on a guy’s ballsack of the same power we wouldn’t be having this conversation.



Actually, it is country level. The small continent is for possible Primebeard I believe.


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## Kaaant (Aug 15, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Actually, it is country level. The small continent is for possible Primebeard I believe.



Whatever it is, it should be out of NNT’s paygrade


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 15, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Yes, in DC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I had to check twice to see if this is really you speaking here. Have never seen you writing in such a conceited manner before in all the time but eh. We all have our days sometimes. Let me answer as good as I can still.

You mentioned that Akainus and Kizarus Attacks are physical - but aside from generic punches, they are all imbued with their element. You mentioned Magma Meteors in your posts - obviously these are to be full countered. Similar to whatever equally Attack Kuzan can dish out. Kizaru is a given as well.

Fujitoras Gravity is a special Case, granted that it is not a tangible or mere elemental object to be full countered. One could make the argument that due to Meliodas being able to Full Counter "Disaster" he could do the same with Fujitoras Gravity but that is a very critical debate. However: How is Fujitora actually using his Gravity? If he summons Meteors - these are sliced in half by slower people with less DC. If he approaches for Close Combat I dont recall any gravity based attacks he uses to underline his attacks with. Also keep in mind that Meliodas can withstand at least 30x times gravity during close combat without problems.

Demon Soul steal performed by regular demons and also by other Ten Commandements including his next of kin (Zeldris, blood related) was done via touch. In close combat the palm on the back or front of the opponents body is all what is necessary.

Red Demons, Mid-tier fodder demons, were seen stealing souls also from range - albeit in that case a little incantation was used. We can assume that Mel knows about that Incantation however I understand the reservation to grant him ranged Soul-Steal.

On touch Soul-Steal however is an actual given by sheer Occams Razor.

The same rule applies to Sakazuki than it does for everyone else. He gets scaled to an unquantifiable degree higher than the 84GT in DC. Randomly upgrading him to Country level, which would be more than a times 10 multiplication simply based of the exchange with WB is not how it works. Basically, it has to be either he gets the full blown Small Continental AP or he gets the 84GT - an inbetween compromise for good feeling is not the approach here. And from my understanding it has been 84GT which is used for Akainu.

Because of that Escanor will be as helpful as Meliodas. Both can tank 96GT blasts with no consequences.

Ban will surely have a tough time, thats correct. However he has a proven stamina which lets him fight for confirmed "decades" without stopping. And during that decade long fighting he has instantly healed from injuries way worse than what either Admiral could dish out. Ban alone, even without Hunter fest Ban himself can prevent any admiral from advancing and helping his fellow comrades. He aint putting one down tho, thats correct.

Kings Chastiefol petrification is not the Bear form. It is simply his actual spear which petrifies on touch. Of course whatever Admiral tries to tango with King can surely defend himself, but you make it sound like all admirals are doing all things at the same time while ignoring whats actually happen around them.

In such a fight pairs will happen. And whoever faces King has to deal with Chastiefol fighting him - ignoring the weapon which, when tagged by it, petrifies you only to fly upwards (while being significantly slower than King) is an actual bad decision since it leaves the opening King would need.

In regards to the Magma fist from above for Gowther I would like to point you to what you said earlier - when you argue that the Admirals are able to close the gap for example with King and go in Close quarter fights - it implies that you see the speed part as an important factor for avoiding attacks and positioning oneself.

Gowther is twice as fast as whatever Magma fist may be thrown at him - so he obviously would have no trouble in avoiding any randomly fired incoming attacks of said nature. Especially given this is a no-knowledge fight, the Admirals, who would get swarmed by Meliodas, Ban, Escanor and Kings attack would not randomly single out that one dude in the back and decide to ignore all things thrown at them only to attack Gowther. And even if they, while defending, try to sneak a ranged attack on him - he can evade it without problems due to the travel time mixed with the speed difference he has in his favour.

The reason I said "Meatshield" is because I explicity agree that in an all out brawl sooner or later Meliodas and Escanor will fall - however due to the fact that Gowther, who can one-hit Hax basically everyone, including his own team, is included the probability of that happening are slim.

Gowther is not a fighter who fights and has Mindhax at his disposal to randomly use at times. He fights with Mindhax. It is his go-to move.

Introduction: Mindhaxed the Demon. Against an approaching Army: Mindhaxed dozens/hundreds at the same time immediately. Against Dreyfus: Mindhaxed him immediately. Against Diane: Mindhaxed the entire city at the start of the battle and her afterwards.  Against Galan: Sneaked a Mindhax. You catch my drift here.

And as for the reason for the multipliers applying - well we had that discussion a multitude of times already so I dont think its worth repeating her again. Whether you agree on the reasoning or not is something we likely will never see eye to eye


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## Piecesis (Aug 15, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Actually, it is country level. The small continent is for possible Primebeard I believe.



Old WB is small continent.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 15, 2018)

Piecesis said:


> Old WB is small continent.



I'm pretty sure the discussion is that the calc that gave out Petatons was only for Primebeard ... Wasn't it ? Did I misinterpret ?


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## Piecesis (Aug 15, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> I'm pretty sure the discussion is that the calc that gave out Petatons was only for Primebeard ... Wasn't it ? Did I misinterpret ?


Old WB - *1.17 petatons*
Primebeard assumption - *697 petatons*


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 15, 2018)

Piecesis said:


> Old WB - *1.17 petatons*
> Primebeard assumption - *697 petatons*



But isn't 1.17 Pt in the country level range ?
According to the Comprehensive Energy Scale, Continent level starts at 1.33 petatons


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## Piecesis (Aug 15, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> But isn't 1.17 Pt in the country level range ?
> According to the Comprehensive Energy Scale, Continent level starts at 1.33 petatons


Since it's no longer in the Teratons they call it small continent or something, well they used to when I was frequent in obd so what do I know.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 15, 2018)

Piecesis said:


> Since it's no longer in the Teratons they call it small continent or something, well they used to when I was frequent in obd so what do I know.


I know right, having to rely on outdated OBD wiki is fucking bad

I feel you.


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## Affectugender (Aug 15, 2018)

@1337RedGlitchFox There is no Merlin here


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## 1337RedGlitchFox (Aug 15, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> @1337RedGlitchFox There is no Merlin here


yep, deleted that pretty fast. 

No oslo either?


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 15, 2018)

1337RedGlitchFox said:


> yep, deleted that pretty fast.
> 
> No oslo either?



You mean King's dog-thing? If he isn't standard equipment for him then no. And iirc he's never been used in combat.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Aug 15, 2018)

yes admirals will do all this flying and shit before gowther points his finger and mindfucks every single one of them simultaneously like he’s done in the manga multiple times


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## Mythoclast (Aug 15, 2018)

Gunstarvillain said:


> It's like saying Juha can use all scrifts just because kubo said they were all his in the first place.





Affectugender said:


> That is how it works pal. Look at Gunstar's example.





It's an ability shared among their race.IT'S.THAT.FUCKING.SIMPLE.

Juha and Kubo are irrelevant to how shit works in NNT.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Affectugender (Aug 15, 2018)

Mythoclast said:


> It's an ability shared among their race.IT'S.THAT.FUCKING.SIMPLE.
> 
> Juha and Kubo are irrelevant to how shit works in NNT.



Show me proper evidence of Meliodas using it bro come on its that easy. You can't just make random headcanon someone has never shown before.


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 15, 2018)

Just wanted to point out that Mel _can_ in fact FC physical attacks:


*Spoiler*: __ 



 [ /SPOILER] 

And the result...


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## Mythoclast (Aug 15, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> Show me proper evidence of Meliodas using it bro come on its that easy. You can't just make random headcanon someone has never shown before.


You're one obtuse mofo.
He gets the ability by default due to being a demon.That's all there really is to it.It's the same way all demons gets darkness manipulation,acid immunity,Purgatory flames and poison resistance by default.
If you understood the context behind how racial abilities work in NNT you'd stop acting unironically like an idiot.


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## Dr. White (Aug 15, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> I fucking doubt that. It just does not give you the same info that CoO does. If it did, then I'd agree.


Bruh on one hand you have an actual sensation about where spiritual matter is, and the dynamics of how it peaks and flows. Hell derierre fuckign sensed herself being watched by Vivian's clairvoyance technique from hundreds of miles away. Coo is slightly better in that it gives the user a perception or thought before the action happens. However you are trying to then use this as a platform to pass the admirals somehow dodging everything here, which is nonsense. Coo is not perfect either. Sanji didn't see Vergo smashing his leg coming, Zoro got schlept by the yeti Cool Bro's, Admirals get blindsided, Sanji outdid Katakuri's by dodging his bean flick, etc. It does give the admirals the ability to close the speed gap reaction wise, but the NnT team should still be moving and getting off attacks faster, which can begin to stack especially given the hax difference. 



> The only thing you proved is that it has better range, because, otherwise, IN A REAL LIFE, I doubt you would want the demon sensing instead of CoO, for example. And it would come in handy for any NNT char to have battle pre-cog.


Yes but real life doesn't equate to battle. The point is Galan with his demon sensing is still comparable to an admiral like foe, and Meliodas dusted him in under a second flat like two or three power ups ago. The admirals don't have that type of CqC skill as far as I am concerned. 






> It is irrelevant in the sense that they are stuck to their speed. Luffy also blitzed the shit out of Doflamingo who's already mach 1948(From quite the distance actually). But I'm not briging that up here because it is irrelevant. It doesn't upgrade their speeds.


You think about speed to simply. It isn't just run speed like usain bolt. Who is faster; Usain Bolt or the hypothetical Bruce Lee? Bolt can beat him form point A to B, But Lee was likely much more quick in combat related movements and would likely piece up the former in a fight. Meliodas has shown he can completely trash CqC masters. Hell even when someone like Dolor was fighting him he was getting trashed with Gloxinia as back up because Meliodas was wayyy to skilled and tanky. So it shows Meliodas agility vs people who are faster than the admirals themselves. Can't blitz but def has the advantage in mobility.





> It doesn't result in actual speed upgrade. It's the same as asking " Did you see Luffy blitzing Doflamingo from far out in the sky ?".


Okay? It doesn't have to as Mel is going to be holding the advantage in speed lol. 





> You are really trying to QUANTIFY SKILL ?


No, I am *qualifying* it. 



> Damn, I expected more from you really.





> Not to mention that it was severely implied that WB could get by with his strength alone, he wasn't reliant on his DF, as he painfully noted to BB.


When did I ever see he wasn't strong? He sure as hell wasn't as strong as he was with "The Most Destructive DF" in the manga though  Besides I still don't see how this is relevant to skill. 





> Meliodas can FC Magma Fists AND Meteors that are physical ? Not to mention gravity ?


I'm gonna go with yeah. 
> Meliodas FC'd Twigo's air slashes which were done with physical strength. 
> Meliodas can full counter energy attacks and ones like Disaster that are non projectile. He can likely FC this dude's magic ability . I mean you are breaching on grounds on Meliodas not being able to full counter say Ace's Fire, or Monet's snow because "lol physical". 
> He's FC'd explosion magic.
> Chandlier attempted to FC King's Chastiefol upgraded by Gowther. 
> Mel full countered an Albion's natural fire blast. 
> MEliodas Full countered this bunch of magic which included wind, earth, and even tree's.


> If he could repel gravity couldn't he ... Just you know, fly by denying gravity ? I don't think that was ever shown ?


I'm not even saying this to be rude, but this is one of the dumbest things I've read in a while. 

FC is not some mode that passively reflects things. Mel has to actively swat his arm out with some sort of material in or around his hand. How would he look swatting around gravity? He can't even do that since Gravity is ya know...A fundamental force, not a projectile or attack. FC is a counter and has to be activated as such. 





> Yes, I do, as I said: the sensing beats CoO in range.


It's not just about range though. Think of it as like Sage sensing from Naruto. Even with his eyes closed he can sense pressures from miles away and sense when and where someone is trying to punch him from by "feeling" where the thing is. Galan not only did that physically but against something Merlin's BFR. His battle senses are ridiculous and he has much more experience. 





> Refer to: this shit is impossible to calc as it involves calc stacking.e


What are you talking about? You're spouting nonsense. I am giving qualifications for Galan. I'm not trying to use calcs to say he blitzes, I am just telling you the level he performs at his slightly above the admirals (physically speaking). 





> I'm sorry but he has been portrayed to have shitty dura for the entirety of the series.


Except he hasn't. Yes he isn't as durable as Escanor, Meliodas, etc. That doesn't mean he isn't island level lmao. King was able to come back from a direct hit from Albion and still evolve his chast. This was before he was island level, and Albionw as as strong as grey demon hendrickson which would solo any sin 1v1 (bar escanor).

King took direct hits from Dolor's amped up clones, he's survived acid being spewn on him, he took his full counter back in his face and was the only one capable of leading the charge vs Chandlier in the first place. You brought up this point as if a passing attack is going to kill him. 




> He might have some of the best firepower but he
> isn't the type to tank attacks easily like Mel, Escanor or Ban. Those can tank things .


King has already displayed his endurance on countless occassions. I'll wait for your counter scans though. 

Also good luck hitting him when he can fly way more casually than anyone here.




> But King wasn't up and ragdolling another top tier in minutes. Calling them "irritating".


Okay? In NnT there is a huge fucking gap between Chandlier, and other strong fighters. Chandlier and Cusack are stronger than all of the 10c bar the princes Mel and Zel. The gap between WB and Marco was big but mitigated by OB being sick and injured. 

You also are misusing terms. He didn't ragdoll shit. Marco and Vista sliced his neck off and he abused his haki/logia to regenerate the wound and keep going. Granted they couldn't do shit to him either, he wasn't "Ragodolling multiple top tiers" like you are claiming. See Meliodas vs Dolor and Glox. Or how Meliodas was still fucking the individual commandments up despite being vastly outnumbered. 





> It was considered trash. The probelm was always getting past Chastiefol. Hurting him after that was easy.


Yes because getting past chast meant he had no other weapon other than TK. King was still capable of taking hits, I mean did you even see King vs Helbrahm? King isn't a tank, but he can still tank hits and be able to fight. You can't knock his damage soak, and it's at island level. 




> He was fucking complaining about how the Haki users were irritating and trying to stop the inexorable from happening. Just delaying what was coming to Luffy.


ok?



> Was Sakazuki hurt by WB's attack ? Yes, but Sakazuki was up for battle once he got back at the plaza.


Ok. So explain how Akainu being knocked out into a crevice, and coming back later to fight weaker people is different from King fighting Chandlier in his vs, and surviving the ordeal long enough to link up with Gowther and land a hit on him afterwards. Or King vs Mael now, King only went out after he was hit with a corroding hax. Gowther took a barrage of blows himself.



> Ragdolling a fucking FIRST MATE. He wasn't ragdolling Pre TS Luffy or a Shichibukai. It was a First Mate.


Except he never ragdolled him. Show me where Akainu beat Marco into the ground like a fodder and kept it pushing. Or stop using the terms. Admirals are also Mid top tier, and the gap between them and first mate level is still notable. Fujitora displayed this against Post Fruit Sabo. Akainu is the strongest admiral, so yes Akainu should be able to do really well like that vs a pool of people weaker than him. Idk why you are using this as some sort of stepping stone argument. 



> He effectively just took probably the most powerful strike in the series up until now and he was literally in perfect conditions to laugh at other top tiers.


After he took a dirt nap.

He wasn't laughing at them, he was genuinely scorning them for getting in his way. Plus...He was injured...He just kept it pushing lmao. He never beat Marco or Vista down though.



> Here, I'm not giving my spin to it or anything. That's literally what happened . This is some serious durability feat for Sakazuki.


Yes you are. Everyone knows Akainu is the strongest admiral and force to be reckoned with in the manga. But the WHOLE FUCKING WAR, Akainu was trying to rat his way to weakening WB. Why? Because he was WSM and akainu needed to use his condition to his advantage. Oda straight up showed us there was a difference in power when all 3 admirals needed to nullify WB's blast, or when Mihawk's slash wasn't even worthy to test WB. 

The scene with Akainu vs wB was showing dominance over Akainu. Akainu only accomplished anything vs WB because of his health conditions. Akainu surviving that slug is a good durability feat but is mostly damage soak as it majorly fucked him up. He should be solidly into country range. But that's it at most. Are you gonna argue that Teach is also in this range pre skip since he took attacks from WB? 

Also you are wrong about King's petrification. It can be done by piercing or simply by the smallest of nicks 


This fight is legit over the minute one admiral is sliced by King, or taken over by Gowther.


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## Steven (Aug 15, 2018)

Why do you guys disagree with Melis Soulsteal ability,which is basic hax for a Demon but on the other hand you gives the Admirals Geppo or Sora?

They NEVER used any Rokushiki skill


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## Gunstarvillain (Aug 15, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> Why do you guys disagree with Melis Soulsteal ability,which is basic hax for a Demon but on the other hand you gives the Admirals Geppo or Sora?
> 
> They NEVER used any Rokushiki skill


I'm disagreeing with anything that was never shown on a panel. 

I will never take a posters opinion over pure fact.


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## Gunstarvillain (Aug 15, 2018)

RavenSupreme said:


> Its not that one-dimensional how we handle thing in the OBD tho. Simply to how we dont have to see every major villain in DBZ having to explode random planets. They naturally scale to planet or even star level(?) from Frieza from hundred chapters ago.
> 
> And while hax is a different matter, we mitigate these things when we have canon evidence for things to be a racial ability, not unique to a wielder of a power, but spread among the relatives of a common race. (e.g. Senkai boost for Saijans to stick with DBZ examples).
> 
> And as for the demons we have that in a multitude of ways here. Its screaming and blinking occams razor in this particular case.


I understand you but there are for instances where not all sayins going ss4 or ssgod just because they are sayins


Or just because Uchiha all share shar doesn't mean they should have the same exact power and so on.


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 15, 2018)

Gunstarvillain said:


> I understand you but there are for instances where not all sayins going ss4 or ssgod just because they are sayins
> 
> 
> Or just because Uchiha all share shar doesn't mean they should have the same exact power and so on.



These things have specific trigger conditions tho. Whereas something which one is born with or a necessary requirement to survive are another things.

For example, for Demons the Soulsteal is their means to replenish their magical power. Its their only way even. Meliodas simply doesnt have to do it because he never lost it (Dont want to spoil the story for you here, but I can link the referring panels where its explained).


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## Gunstarvillain (Aug 15, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> No. This is pure stupidity lmao. All demons can soul fuck. It's a natural ability. It's like saying "we haven't seen Jericho piss yet, so therefore she can't.". Hell even when Fraudrin was possessing Dreyfus, the latters humans body was still latching onto and eating the souls that Denzel had called to haunt and hurt Fraudrin.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


Fine eat your cake white. 

Over it.lol


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## Gunstarvillain (Aug 15, 2018)

RavenSupreme said:


> These things have specific trigger conditions tho. Whereas something which one is born with or a necessary requirement to survive are another things.
> 
> For example, for Demons the Soulsteal is their means to replenish their magical power. Its their only way even. Meliodas simply doesnt have to do it because he never lost it (Dont want to spoil the story for you here, but I can link the referring panels where its explained).


Literally stopped taking thread serious but thanks for taking time to explain it in a non dickhead way lol


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## Affectugender (Aug 15, 2018)

Just show a damn scan of Mel using soul steal come on how hard is it? Instead of random headcanon show a scan of him doing it. No one cares if his race can do it or not. I just want a SOLID evidence Mel can do it. Just show a scan/statement/God's word to what you are talking about instead of just assuming shit.


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 15, 2018)

Gunstarvillain said:


> Literally stopped taking thread serious but thanks for taking time to explain it in a non dickhead way lol



Okay no problem, never mind then mate.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dr. White (Aug 15, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> Just show a damn scan of Mel using soul steal come on how hard is it? Instead of *random headcanon* show a scan of him doing it. *No one cares if his race can do it or not.* I just want a SOLID evidence Mel can do it. Just show a scan/statement/God's word to what you are talking about instead of just assuming shit.


"Show me your cobra is poisonous! I don't care what it's species is!"


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 15, 2018)

RavenSupreme said:


> Its not that one-dimensional how we handle thing in the OBD tho. *Simply to how we dont have to see every major villain in DBZ having to explode random planets. They naturally scale to planet or even star level(?) from Frieza from hundred chapters ago. *
> 
> And while hax is a different matter, we mitigate these things when we have canon evidence for things to be a racial ability, not unique to a wielder of a power, but spread among the relatives of a common race. (e.g. Senkai boost for Saijans to stick with DBZ examples).
> 
> And as for the demons we have that in a multitude of ways here. Its screaming and blinking occams razor in this particular case.



I was gonna say this.


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## Steven (Aug 15, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> Just show a damn scan of Mel using soul steal come on how hard is it? Instead of random headcanon show a scan of him doing it. No one cares if his race can do it or not. I just want a SOLID evidence Mel can do it. Just show a scan/statement/God's word to what you are talking about instead of just assuming shit.


There is no panel where meliodas use soulsteal.So nobody can show you that

But this ability is normal stuff for the Demons in NNT


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## Affectugender (Aug 15, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> "Show me your cobra is poisonous! I don't care what it's species is!"



First of all, Cobras are venomous, second of all bad analogy. Because we know every Cobra have venom because we have tested all of the species out for medical reasoning. Scientific world doesn't just conclude with testing 10-15 species with venom and calling the other 5 different species not-venomous. Just like how we don't assume Mel can soul steal until we ahve proper evidence


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## Dr. White (Aug 15, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> First of all, Cobras are venomous, second of all bad analogy. Because we know every Cobra have venom because we have tested all of the species out for medical reasoning. Scientific world doesn't just conclude with testing 10-15 species with venom and calling the other 5 different species not-venomous. Just like how we don't assume Mel can soul steal until we ahve proper evidence


But we haven't tested all of them? You are shifting here. We know cobras are venomous because of observation and testing. We have observed multiple demons capable of consuming souls, and fodder less skilled Demons knowing incantations that allows them to steal souls. Meliodas, because he is such a strong demon, even has soul resistance which is why Merascylla the suls ealing specialist needed to put all of her effort into it. 

So no, you can't flip flop on when you want to accept certain natural characteristics of species. Galan is a consciousness in armor and can eat souls, and human Dreyfus could touch souls and eat them for nourishment. It's a universal thing.

but by all means keep believing what you will.


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 15, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> First of all, Cobras are venomous, second of all bad analogy. Because we know every Cobra have venom because we have tested all of the species out for medical reasoning. Scientific world doesn't just conclude with testing 10-15 species with venom and calling the other 5 different species not-venomous. Just like how we don't assume Mel can soul steal until we ahve proper evidence



Why wouldn't he have it though? 

-He's a full-blooded demon. 
-He's a top tier demon. 
-Son of the king of demons. 
-He was taught by one of the strongest demons. 
-He led a team of demons who have nearly all shown to be able to do it.   
-Fodder demons can do it
-He knows everything else other demons can do.

It wouldn't make sense for him not to know how. But rather, through CIS he doesn't since he got converted by Elizabeth.


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## Affectugender (Aug 15, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> But we haven't tested all of them? You are shifting here. We know cobras are venomous because of observation and testing. We have observed multiple demons capable of consuming souls, and fodder less skilled Demons knowing incantations that allows them to steal souls. Meliodas, because he is such a strong demon, even has soul resistance which is why Merascylla the suls ealing specialist needed to put all of her effort into it.
> 
> So no, you can't flip flop on when you want to accept certain natural characteristics of species. Galan is a consciousness in armor and can eat souls, and human Dreyfus could touch souls and eat them for nourishment. It's a universal thing.
> 
> but by all means keep believing what you will.


?? We have tested all of the known species. How do you think we rank the most venomous snakes? Because we know which snakes deploy the most venom due to intensive testing and we have tested all the known species of snakes and we know exactly how much venom one snake produces on a bite. 

Having a soul resistance doesn't = you have soul steal. Nardo has resisted soul steal but does he have the power to soul steal? no 

Until I get scans/statements/God's word I will believe what I want and you can too just like how a debate works.....


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## Dr. White (Aug 15, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> ?? We have tested all of the known species.


yes and determined it is a genetic trait. But we didn't test every single individual cobra out there. You're trying to play an angle similar to the latter logic. 

Demons can touch and eat souls. Fact. 
Demons can use incantations to collect souls. Fact.
We know Meliodas is a top breed of Demon. Fact. 
We know even humans can gain this ability if possessed by a demon. Fact.

The most logical conclusion is that Meliodas can soul steal/eat like other humans. 



> Having a soul resistance doesn't = you have soul steal. Nardo has resisted soul steal but does he have the power to soul steal? no


You're right. Howver it's a sign of him having soul related abilities because of his genetics. Like his ability to soul fuck.



> Until I get scans/statements/God's word I will believe what I want and you can too just like how a debate works.....


That's not really how debate works, but sure do you bud


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## Affectugender (Aug 15, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> yes and determined it is a genetic trait. But we didn't test every single individual cobra out there. You're trying to play an angle similar to the latter logic.


We do tho. We have tested every single cobra known to us. Just search up any cobra name you know out there and Wikipedia will tell how much mg of venom a snake carries. All 31. 



Dr. White said:


> Demons can touch and eat souls. Fact.
> Demons can use incantations to collect souls. Fact.
> We know Meliodas is a top breed of Demon. Fact.
> We know even humans can gain this ability if possessed by a demon. Fact.



Meliodas has never done it. Fact





Dr. White said:


> You're right. Howver it's a sign of him having soul related abilities because of his genetics. Like his ability to soul fuck.



Or its just traits of being the MC. Like you know having a strong soul/heart.



Dr. White said:


> That's not really how debate works, but sure do you bud



What believing what you want and arguing for it is not how a debate works?


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## Dr. White (Aug 15, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> We do tho. We have tested every single cobra known to us. Just search up any cobra name you know out there and Wikipedia will tell how much mg of venom a snake carries. All 31.


Are you illiterate? I said every individual cobra of those species.

The point is that Meliodas is a demon, the same species as the wide variety we have seen soulfuck. He is born of the demon King, and the next Heir. Saying he can't do low level shit like recite incantations the red demons know, or touch souls like Dreyfus possessed is just being obtuse. He shares the same generic stuff with other demons like darkness manipulation, and hellfire. It's a demon thing, so is soulfuck. 




> Meliodas has never done it. Fact


Cell has never blown up a planet, therefore he cannot blow up a planet.

Itachi has never made a cloud of steam, so therefore he cannot use a katon followed up by a suiton to do so in the battledome. 

Gowther never mindfucked anyone into believing they are eating a sandwich, so therefore he can't. 

You are literally being extreme and obtuse. It's very simple logic to follow. 







> Or its just traits of being the MC. Like you know having a strong soul/heart.


Which would be a reasonable argument if we didn't know about inherent demon soul abilities.


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## Steven (Aug 15, 2018)

Somehow, everything turns around without any end in sight


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## Affectugender (Aug 15, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Are you illiterate? I said every individual cobra of those species.
> 
> The point is that Meliodas is a demon, the same species as the wide variety we have seen soulfuck. He is born of the demon King, and the next Heir. Saying he can't do low level shit like recite incantations the red demons know, or touch souls like Dreyfus possessed is just being obtuse. He shares the same generic stuff with other demons like darkness manipulation, and hellfire. It's a demon thing, so is soulfuck.
> 
> ...



I'm tired of going back and forth so agree to disagree. I will change my mind when Mel shows his ability to soul steal and not assume has this ability because someone else he is related does. We still have another 300 or so chapters to go.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 15, 2018)

I'll answer you guys later.


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## Jag77 (Aug 16, 2018)

I could have sworn all the Admirals were Country+ 

I didn't know about this Island+ or small continent stuff.


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## B Rabbit (Aug 16, 2018)

^ Its up for debate.

Tbh the argument for Admirals being = Oldbeard has more strong supporters in the OBD than against it. However there is a strong cult following for against it.

We just leave alone because its not worth the debate anymore.


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## Kaaant (Aug 16, 2018)

Really don’t think there is a debate when akainu hurt the guy twice. So unless whitebeard’s feat is coincidentally no longer valid there’s no argument against it. 

Calling it a cult is pretty spot on


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 16, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> Really don’t think there is a debate when akainu hurt the guy twice. So unless whitebeard’s feat is coincidentally no longer valid there’s no argument against it.
> 
> Calling it a cult is pretty spot on


WBs durability is shit though, inconsistent as fuck


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## B Rabbit (Aug 16, 2018)

Well it doesn't matter anyways because Akainu matched him blow for blow for a good chunk of their match.

The idea of Whitebeard beating Akainu was thrown out years ago and is an outdated by common sense and panel evidence.


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## Kaaant (Aug 16, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> WBs durability is shit though, inconsistent as fuck



And? If Akainu wasn’t one of the strongest guys around this would be a valid point. 

As an aside, what is luffy’s Dc now? Is he still city level?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 16, 2018)

B Rabbit said:


> Well it doesn't matter anyways because Akainu matched him blow for blow for a good chunk of their match.
> 
> The idea of Whitebeard beating Akainu was thrown out years ago and is an outdated by common sense and panel evidence.


>downs Akainu with a serious hit while WB was literally a dead man walking
>Akainu’s attack gets blown the fuck out by WB casually.

Yea sure buddy


Kaaant said:


> And? If Akainu wasn’t one of the strongest guys around this would be a valid point.
> 
> As an aside, what is luffy’s Dc now? Is he still city level?


hes island level with G4 at least


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## Kaaant (Aug 16, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> >downs Akainu with a serious hit while WB was literally a dead man walking



>serious hit arguably more potent than the one the continent level calc comes from
>survives and lands two blows of his own on whitebeard. 

It’s fascinating how if this were any other series you wouldn’t be saying anything of the sort. Why is one piece so special?



OneSimpleAnime said:


> >Akainu’s attack gets blown the fuck out by WB casually.



>failed to kill Akainu and got seriously hurt as a result. 

How about no.


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## B Rabbit (Aug 16, 2018)

As a guy who owns every single One Piece volume and has read the series all the way through. Find me a panel when Whitebeard knocks out Akainu. 

Here is a hint. You can't but its in Volume 59.


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## Dr. White (Aug 16, 2018)

Country level Jinbei a go


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## Steven (Aug 16, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Country level Jinbei a go


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 16, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Country level Jinbei a go


Sakazuki was clearly superior and Jinbe got outright hurt and damaged(He was prepared to throw his life off).


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 16, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> >serious hit arguably more potent than the one the continent level calc comes from
> >survives and lands two blows of his own on whitebeard.
> 
> It’s fascinating how if this were any other series you wouldn’t be saying anything of the sort. Why is one piece so special?


this has nothing to do with what i said, WBs power blow for blow outmatched Akainu’s by a landslide. He was coughing blood from that hit




Kaaant said:


> >failed to kill Akainu and got seriously hurt as a result.
> 
> How about no.


Still has nothing to do with my original point


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## Kaaant (Aug 16, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> this has nothing to do with what i said, WBs power blow for blow outmatched Akainu’s by a landslide. He was coughing blood from that hit



>nothing to do with. 

“All these examples of akainu giving as good as he gets aren’t valid because I say so”



OneSimpleAnime said:


> Still has nothing to do with my original point



Nod an argumend


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## Dr. White (Aug 16, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Sakazuki was clearly superior and Jinbe got outright hurt and damaged(He was prepared to throw his life off).


So? He still took a lava fist and was stalemating it and then survived a blow through the chest.


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## Blαck (Aug 16, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Country level Jinbei a go



No wonder big mom wouldn't let him quit


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## Steven (Aug 16, 2018)

Blαck said:


> No wonder big mom wouldn't let him quit


Country Level Cake


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## Piecesis (Aug 16, 2018)

Blαck said:


> No wonder big mom wouldn't let him quit


I mean he did punch big mom off the sunny. 

Feats speak for themselves. Country level Jinbe sounds good.


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## Zern227 (Aug 16, 2018)

Big Mom wasn't even hurt by the push, heck even Pre-skip Franky could push a pacifista but that doesn't make him town level.


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## Blαck (Aug 16, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> Country Level Cake



Well, it did survive big mom's temper tantrum

Cake mountain confirmed God tier haki


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## ho11ow (Aug 16, 2018)

People really underestimated jinbe, he literaly tank named attack from big meme and survived

Tank bloodlust atack from akainu

and even survive attack from mihawk who is equal of shank. He is secretly top tier


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## Blαck (Aug 16, 2018)

ho11ow said:


> People really underestimated jinbe, he literaly tank named attack from big meme and survived
> 
> Tank bloodlust atack from akainu
> 
> and even survive attack from mihawk who is equal of shank. He is secretly top tier



Tbf Big Mom was starving so some say she's weaker in this state.


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## Kaaant (Aug 16, 2018)

When did jinbe become akainu’s peer anyway


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## Blαck (Aug 16, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> When did jinbe become akainu’s peer anyway



He's not, maybe in the water since they hyped like that in the war. Otherwise he does just about as  good current Luffy probably would


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 16, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> >nothing to do with.
> 
> “All these examples of akainu giving as good as he gets aren’t valid because I say so”
> 
> ...


>giving as good as he gets
>Whitebeard is literally dying and still floors him with a punch 

Yea their raw power is totally on the same level


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## Kaaant (Aug 16, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> >giving as good as he gets
> >Whitebeard is literally dying and still floors him with a punch
> 
> Yea their raw power is totally on the same level



>blows off his face and puts a hole in his chest after making the guy livid after basically killing his son 
>had more lasting damage from fighting Akainu 


Blαck said:


> He's not, maybe in the water since they hyped like that in the war. Otherwise he does just about as  good current Luffy probably would



So bringing up jimbe is redundant then tbh.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 16, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> >blows off his face and puts a hole in his chest after making the guy livid after basically killing his son
> >had more lasting damage from fighting Akainu
> 
> 
> So bringing up jimbe is redundant then tbh.


Since when is this about durability?


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## Kaaant (Aug 16, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Since when is this about durability?



*Aokiji
Was mainly joking on that front anyway. 

Takes whitebeards attacks and hurts him. 

Nothing else to say. It couldn’t be more simple than that.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 16, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> *Aokiji
> Was mainly joking on that front anyway.
> 
> Takes whitebeards attacks and hurts him.
> ...


So you have nothing to put Akainu higher than island in DC? Since he never directly matched WBs power


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## Kaaant (Aug 16, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> So you have nothing to put Akainu higher than island in DC? Since he never directly matched WBs power



Isn’t there a literal panel where he does this.


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## Kingdom Come (Aug 16, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> Isn’t there a literal panel where he does this.



I couldn't find the exact Chapter, so I just pictured the one on Google Image, but I think this is what you're talking about


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## Kaaant (Aug 16, 2018)

It is. 

There’s also a feat where the three admirals cancel out his quake. 

Could divide WB’s power in three and it’d still be country level.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 17, 2018)

Kingdom Come said:


> I couldn't find the exact Chapter, so I just pictured the one on Google Image, but I think this is what you're talking about


Whitebeard isnt even looking at him 

He didnt match a quake, WB just canceled his attack casually lol


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## Blαck (Aug 17, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Whitebeard isnt even looking at him
> 
> He didnt match a quake, WB just canceled his attack casually lol



He literally swung a quake and Akainu caught it nonchalant as fuck. And how is not looking at a guy he's talking directly to? 

c'mon now.


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## Dellinger (Aug 17, 2018)

Big Mom never had any intention to kill them anyways. She could hsve dropped Prometheus on them and kill them whenever she wanted


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## B Rabbit (Aug 17, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Whitebeard isnt even looking at him
> 
> He didnt match a quake, WB just canceled his attack casually lol



Come on now...seriously?

I'm seriously this close to quoting your post and putting it in our meta thread for silly arguments.


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## Steven (Aug 17, 2018)

Dellinger said:


> Big Mom never had any intention to kill them anyways. She could hsve dropped Prometheus on them and kill them whenever she wanted


Plotarmor>BM


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## Dellinger (Aug 17, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> Plotarmor>BM


Call it plotarmor call it Big Mom still thinking that the cake was on Sunny.  Point is she wasnt trying to kill them


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 17, 2018)

Blαck said:


> He literally swung a quake and Akainu caught it nonchalant as fuck. And how is not looking at a guy he's talking directly to?
> 
> c'mon now.


There wasnt a quake on his bisento so no, hes not even facing the magma fist, you can clearly see his face not looking towards it.


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## B Rabbit (Aug 17, 2018)

Yes he is facing it. The angle of his face is a little cocked because he was pain.

Regardless thats a terrible argument. You are literally the worst debator on this subforum.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 17, 2018)

B Rabbit said:


> Yes he is facing it. The angle of his face is a little cocked because he was pain.
> 
> Regardless thats a terrible argument. You are literally the worst debator on this subforum.


K. Akainu still never matched him, it was the other way around and WB is specifically noted to have the highest raw power in series with his fruit, but sure Akainu matched him


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 17, 2018)

RavenSupreme said:


> You linked some panels showing the magma fists in the sky and they are, by what I observe, definetly not 100% physical. I mean they are even in the shape of a fist. And they are on fire. And they are not externally thrown but created by Akainu out of his own body - and his own body is an element. Claiming there is not a single trace of elemental energy behind these attacks doesnt strike me as a possibility. And I like to point out that the wiki is not right in this case. While true 100% physical attacks can not be reflected, indirect attacks however can. I link the URL, just put them in a new tab.
> 
> Going by what is the next best thing comparable to Akainus dense Magma fists would be actual rocks - and Meliodas has full countered them on several occasions before.
> 
> ...



Conceded. But Meliodas still can't FC his way out of Sakazuki's attack because that's NLF. Sakazuki's attacks have more power than Meliodas has ever shown to do. 



RavenSupreme said:


> Not sure if Mel can FC Gravity, however I doubt Fujitoras Gravity can actively pin him either way - given Mels resistance to x30 gravity and equal AP stats.



Well, it would certainly slow Meliodas, that's for sure.



RavenSupreme said:


> Fodder or not when faced with sould or mind based abilities doenst matter much tho - same with time based abilities or other exotic stuff. No one would argue that Gowther wins an exchange of fisticuffs against Akainu. Or that Zeref defeats Kuzan in a muscle duel. However Zerefs timestop would work wonders due to them not having a defense against it. And Gowthers mindhax being dangerous to them is one of the key issues in the discussion here. The soul steal is the same thing. And we have the generic soul steal working on Ban and Escanor by the way - by Melascula. And that was the basic palm-on-the-body stuff. Not ranged or special like she showcased later in the series.



That's where I'm getting at, the long range was only done in fodder.



RavenSupreme said:


> Well Small continental level begins at 1 Petaton in the OBD from what I understood - and Old WB gets that scaling. So yeha thats basically my point the entire time. And Akainu from what I understand does not get that small continent scaling - so he is stuck with the Island+ one for now. I agree that the Admirals get the Dura/Endurance scaling however, which is why Gowther is such a key member.



As I posted before: Sakazuki matched WB's power downright. Not only that but he: tanked two attacks from WB and put holes into WB.

Those aren't small feats.


RavenSupreme said:


> No its not. The picture you linked showed how the bear form (Guardian) changed into the petrification form (fossilisation). He simply used Guardian previously.
> 
> Here is another instance from him using it in a fight, you see it more clearly that it actually is just his spear and not the big beard
> 
> ...



Oh I see, it only needs the spear. But the spear clearly made damage, as the guy asked " What is this spear ?" in a sense of "How this shit damaged me ". Look at that panel, he's holding an injury at his right hand.



RavenSupreme said:


> Gowther, while being able to dodge with relative easy, surely would have to deal with a barrage of Magma fists, assuming Akainu fires a ranged attack when he technically would get attacked in close combat (or Aokiji for that matter).



They are battle tacticians, they won't go into close range before knowing what their enemy's abilities are. 



RavenSupreme said:


> However remember that Meliodas can clone himself - one clone would be with Gowther to Full counter approaching Magma fists (now we are back into the "Are Magma fists physical or not" debate), making it for Gowther very easy attack as he pleases.



Nah, Meliodas can't deflect. 1.2 Pt. 



Dr. White said:


> Bruh on one hand you have an actual sensation about where spiritual matter is, and the dynamics of how it peaks and flows. Hell derierre fuckign sensed herself being watched by Vivian's clairvoyance technique from hundreds of miles away. Coo is slightly better in that it gives the user a perception or thought before the action happens. However you are trying to then use this as a platform to pass the admirals somehow dodging everything here, which is nonsense.



No, I'm not. I'm saying that they aren't going to get blitzed.



> Coo is not perfect either. Sanji didn't see Vergo smashing his leg coming, Zoro got schlept by the yeti Cool Bro's, Admirals get blindsided,



2 out of the three you mentioned are PIS/CIS or from a time where CoO wasn't introduced. The whole Marineford Arc would be different if Oda had already introduced Haki properly. And Zoro was just outright PIS/CIS.



> Sanji outdid Katakuri's by dodging his bean flick, etc. It does give the admirals the ability to close the speed gap reaction wise, but the NnT team should still be moving and getting off attacks faster, which can begin to stack especially given the hax difference.



I don't know why bringing Sanji is even of relevance. Katakuri saw that Sanji would dodge the priest's bullet and attacked with a bullet of his own and Sanji dodged that. It was simply out of Katakuri's reach of foresight.



Dr. White said:


> Yes but real life doesn't equate to battle. The point is Galan with his demon sensing is still comparable to an admiral like foe, and Meliodas dusted him in under a second flat like two or three power ups ago. The admirals don't have that type of CqC skill as far as I am concerned.



They aren't Admirals for their fruits you know. Oda's made a point of how logias who rely on their fruits and not skill get bodied. Ace was a fighting genius before even touching Mera Mera, for example. They probably know Rokushiki and are capable fighters without their fruits. 



Dr. White said:


> You think about speed to simply. It isn't just run speed like usain bolt. Who is faster; Usain Bolt or the hypothetical Bruce Lee? Bolt can beat him form point A to B, But Lee was likely much more quick in combat related movements and would likely piece up the former in a fight. Meliodas has shown he can completely trash CqC masters. Hell even when someone like Dolor was fighting him he was getting trashed with Gloxinia as back up because Meliodas was wayyy to skilled and tanky. So it shows Meliodas agility vs people who are faster than the admirals themselves. Can't blitz but def has the *advantage in mobility.*



Never said he didn't. Also he's tanky in his world. Sakazuki can one shot him. 



Dr. White said:


> Okay? It doesn't have to as Mel is going to be holding the advantage in speed lol.



Only a 2 times. Plus CoO for admirals. It's not a big deal when the Admirals have what is very known to fuck with speed users: AoE.



Dr. White said:


> When did I ever see he wasn't strong? He sure as hell wasn't as strong as he was with "The Most Destructive DF" in the manga though  Besides I still don't see how this is relevant to skill.



Literally, the slash that WB did to BB was Oda's way of showing that WB wouldn't have made that far without abilities and skill of his own. The recurring theme in One Piece is that " A great fruit might be useless in the hand of a weak user " and that "People with OP fruits who rely on them are the first ones to die". Bomu Bomu no Mi >>>> Doru Doru no Mi anyday, but Oda made a point to make Mr. 3 better than Mr. 5. You telling me just because WB didn't show an incredible amount of skill he wasn't skilled ? The same goes for Sakazuki. He wouldn't be an admiral if he was not skilled in fighting CQC without his DF. 



Dr. White said:


> I'm gonna go with yeah.
> > Meliodas FC'd Twigo's air slashes which were done with physical strength.
> > Meliodas can full counter energy attacks and ones like Disaster that are non projectile. He can likely FC this dude's magic ability . I mean you are breaching on grounds on Meliodas not being able to full counter say Ace's Fire, or Monet's snow because "lol physical".
> > He's FC'd explosion magic.
> ...



^Conceded to the part of that he can FC the magma ... But the magma is, in fact, in a higher scale in relation to Mel's showings, so NLF.



Dr. White said:


> FC is not some mode that passively reflects things. Mel has to actively swat his arm out with some sort of material in or around his hand. How would he look swatting around gravity? He can't even do that since Gravity is ya know...A fundamental force, not a projectile or attack. FC is a counter and has to be activated as such.



So he couldn't FC Fuji's gravity ?



Dr. White said:


> What are you talking about? You're spouting nonsense. I am giving qualifications for Galan. I'm not trying to use calcs to say he blitzes, I am just telling you the level he performs at his slightly above the admirals (physically speaking).



Ok. 



Dr. White said:


> Except he hasn't. Yes he isn't as durable as Escanor, Meliodas, etc. That doesn't mean he isn't island level lmao. King was able to come back from a direct hit from Albion and still evolve his chast. This was before he was island level, and Albionw as as strong as grey demon hendrickson which would solo any sin 1v1 (bar escanor).



Grey Demon Hendrickson isn't Island lvl either. So nah. Where does he tanks a legit Island level attack ? Besides his own attack(That AS FAR AS I KNOW IS STUCK AT CITY) ... It doesn't seem that he has ever tanked an island lvl attack.



Dr. White said:


> You also are misusing terms. He didn't ragdoll shit. Marco and Vista sliced his neck off and he abused his haki/logia to regenerate the wound and keep going. Granted they couldn't do shit to him either, he wasn't "Ragodolling multiple top tiers" like you are claiming. See Meliodas vs Dolor and Glox. Or how Meliodas was still fucking the individual commandments up despite being vastly outnumbered.



He was pushing them forward, got past them and did get to Jinbe who was running away with Luffy.



Dr. White said:


> After he took a dirt nap.



NonCanon intensifies.



Dr. White said:


> The scene with Akainu vs wB was showing dominance over Akainu. Akainu only accomplished anything vs WB because of his health conditions. Akainu surviving that slug is a good durability feat but is mostly damage soak as it majorly fucked him up. He should be solidly into country range. But that's it at most. Are you gonna argue that Teach is also in this range pre skip since he took attacks from WB?



In dura ? Yes. Teach was shown to be a fucking Tank. Even though he will feel pain from the weakest attacks, he has a fucked up durability only topped by Sakazuki's own.


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## Mythoclast (Aug 17, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Grey Demon Hendrickson isn't Island lvl either. So nah. Where does he tanks a legit Island level attack ? Besides his own attack(That AS FAR AS I KNOW IS STUCK AT CITY) ... It doesn't seem that he has ever tanked an island lvl att


He was duking it out with base Chandler.He's island level.


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## B Rabbit (Aug 17, 2018)

It wasn't stated Whitebeard had the most destructive fruits. It was stated it was one of the stringest fruits. Only three fruits in the series so far has been put into a special catagory of the best and thats;

Enel's
Law's
Whitebeard's.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 17, 2018)

B Rabbit said:


> It wasn't stated Whitebeard had the most destructive fruits. It was stated it was one of the stringest fruits. Only three fruits in the series so far has been put into a special catagory of the best and thats;
> 
> Enel's
> Law's
> Whitebeard's.


“Worlds Strongest Man, Strong enough to destroy the world” its got the best raw power feat in series too


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Aug 17, 2018)

why do people think it makes sense for akainu to be able to match WB anyway?

It makes no sense in verse and totally invalidates consistent character statements and lore about what WB meant to the one piece story as a whole

how can the worlds strongest man be matched by one admiral when there’s three of them. there’s nothing logical about that


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Aug 17, 2018)

B Rabbit said:


> It wasn't stated Whitebeard had the most destructive fruits. It was stated it was one of the stringest fruits. Only three fruits in the series so far has been put into a special catagory of the best and thats;
> 
> Enel's
> Law's
> Whitebeard's.



Isn’t marcos fruit highly regarded as well?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 17, 2018)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> It makes no sense in verse and totally invalidates consistent character statements and lore about what WB meant to the one piece story as a whole



Who's faster Doflamingo or Law ? Dofla. But both scale to the same speed. 

That's why. 

Who's stronger WB or Sakazuki ? WB. But both scale to the same feat of DC. 

The nature of calcs doesn't reflect the exact thing in-series. In-series G4 Luffy can outright blitz Doflamingo from quite the distance, but they are both the same speed. 

In-verse, Luffy can beat lots of guys in base, but those are the same guys who give him the scaling, etc. 

Having to explain this is just sad.


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## Kaaant (Aug 17, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> “Worlds Strongest Man, Strong enough to destroy the world” its got the best raw power feat in series too



And yet he is vastly out of shape and past his prime. 

No one is saying akainu scales to primebeard, so what is your actual point with this?


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## Kaaant (Aug 17, 2018)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> It makes no sense in verse



Cept it actually happened. And akainu was hitting back from a point where whitebeard had nothing to lose.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Aug 17, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Who's faster Doflamingo or Law ? Dofla. But both scale to the same speed.
> 
> That's why.
> 
> ...



It’s not sad it’s mandatory

comprehension is a normal thing and if someone were to read the manga they are not leaving with the idea that akainu and whitebeard are the same physically. only sad takeaway here is us having to equalize the two when the source material says otherwise


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 17, 2018)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> It’s not sad it’s mandatory
> 
> comprehension is a normal thing and if someone were to read the manga they are not leaving with the idea that akainu is the same ballpark physically as whitebeard. only sad takeaway here is us having to equalize the to when the source material says otherwise



Source material says otherwise, so I guess Luffy and Dofla can't be the same speed.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Aug 17, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Source material says otherwise, so I guess Luffy and Dofla can't be the same speed.



Idk what they can be what does the manga tell you?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 17, 2018)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> Idk what they can be what does the manga tell you?



That's the fucking problem, we can't use this fucking logic in this case, because of the nature of calcs, we have to do shit like this.


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## B Rabbit (Aug 18, 2018)

The manga tells us that Whitebeard in MF was no longer the strongest man in the world. He even states this himself, "I can't be the strongest forever Crocoboy."

Whitebeard at the war was all about hype, but he was not the strongest man in the world. 

This is what the manga tells us. This is why the Admirals matched him, the Yonkou were his rivals.

This is how a flowing story is suppose to be used.


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## Dr. White (Aug 18, 2018)

B Rabbit said:


> The manga tells us that Whitebeard in MF was no longer the strongest man in the world. He even states this himself, "I can't be the strongest forever Crocoboy."
> 
> Whitebeard at the war was all about hype, but he was not the strongest man in the world.
> 
> ...


Not really


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 18, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Conceded. But Meliodas still can't FC his way out of Sakazuki's attack because that's NLF. Sakazuki's attacks have more power than Meliodas has ever shown to do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well thats basically what the entire debate boils down. If the Admirals get scaled to 1.2 Petatons, then sure people who hang between 48 and 96GT can not engage in a physical bout. 

However from my observations not only in this thread but in general battles involving OP Admirals, they do not get that scaling. They get the 84GT scaling. You might believe that there exist irefutable prove which confirms your take on their scaling being 1.2PT is correct, however that is nothing which seems to be accepted as a general consensus (its also not on the OBD, albeit the wiki is outdated in general).

Basically: Instead of a back-and-forth between us, what you likely should do is to maybe revise the entire approach on the Admirals standing in a separate thread and the result would be the new standard for their scaling. As for now, I have to disagree with simply giving them 1.2 PT scaling, I use the current 84GT scaling which leaves room for almost every sin, but especially Meliodas and Escanor to stall and deal with them long enough before Gowther and King land their hax to tip the battle in their favour.

If this subforum agrees on the proposed 1.2 PT scaling however I change my mind, given that the stat differences then would be too vast.

30x gravity would not slow Meliodas down. It has not slowed him down back in the very first arc. In fact, Grey Demon Hendrickson, who faced it either was unfazed and fingerflicked himself / the attacker out of it. I dont think the gravity-to-pin-down argument would be a relevant factor in the battle. 

Meliodas has always been a close combat fighter. His entire style of combat is designed for that. As such him using the physical version of Soul-steal is what is a legitimate danger for the admirals. 

Take a closer look. Only the "Armor" was pierced. Not the actual body. Which allows us to conclude that the spear doesnt need to pierce the body, but just "anything". For example piercing the clothes from the Admirals would already be enough to cause the petrification to come into effect. 

Yeha, they are battle tacticians, however Escanor, Meliodas and Ban are battle-brawlers. Thats their entire Modus Operandi. They would not leave the Admirals alone only for them to formulate a plan and approach on how to best solve the issue but instead they would force them to react and do judgement calls, especially given the speed difference. Twice as much of speed is surely nothing where the sins will blitz, but it is enough to create the openings needed and prevent sophisticated tactics while being calm and collected like for example during the war, where they only faced opposition inferior to them in all aspects. 

By the way, have you checked the panels about Ban? Whats your take on the matter, you agree that he will be a hurdle very annoying to overcome, regarding the Stamina and healing factor?


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## Keishin (Aug 18, 2018)

The admirals dont get that type of scaling they have no way of affecting the world with their powers they have no hype like that they're just strong.


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## Kuhzan (Aug 18, 2018)

The three admirals together blocked an attack from WB with their Haki.

Cut the 1.2 Petatons three ways and scale it to the Yonko and Admirals. They would be Country level with a relatively concrete number, but still weaker than WB.


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## Kuhzan (Aug 18, 2018)

And whoever is actually looking at that panel where WB matches Akainus attack and actually thinks that the admirals shouldn't scale in some form to his DC is actually ridiculous. WB is not thousands of times stronger than Akainu come on.

Reactions: Like 1


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## B Rabbit (Aug 18, 2018)

The only people who think that are 3 people who the OBD don't take seriously anyways.

At this point they want to argue it. Take it to the meta.


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## Dr. White (Aug 18, 2018)

Kuhzan said:


> And whoever is actually looking at that panel where WB matches Akainus attack and actually thinks that the admirals shouldn't scale in some form to his DC is actually ridiculous. WB is not thousands of times stronger than Akainu come on.


They shouldn't. The same way Jinbei doesn't scale to akainu for blocking bloodlusted akainu fist. You said yourself, it took 3 admirals to counterbalance his haki. WB was the strongest in the world. He had the most destructive fruit. Akainu purposefully tried to weaken WB (who was already dying). WB fucked akainu up when he got serious. Akainu only landed a hit because of WB's condition. 

Whoever read MF and thought "Damn, Akainu is like WB's equal or something!", must be illiterate or on crack. The whole point was to flex WB's strength, but have his reign end due to his health and jumping into the war. 

Admirals should stay in country+ Durability and island+ DC.


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## Kuhzan (Aug 18, 2018)

Clearly you lack reading comprehension considering the fact that all the Admirals had numerous encounters throughout the whole war with WB and none of them were even damaged up until the point WB hit Akainu.

You're also ignoring the fact that WB was only able to do impactful damage on Akainu when he hit him with a sneak attack.

WB is stronger than the Admirals but they are all the same ballpark.

The fact that you think that WB is over 1000x times more Powerful than Akainu is actually hilarious.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kuhzan (Aug 18, 2018)

And you're also lying. Akainu instantly recovered from the bloodlusted shot and gave WB a fatal blow. 

Oda portrayed Akainu as someone that could fuck with WB by making him blast WBs face off. You don't do that with a character if he's massively weaker.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kuhzan (Aug 18, 2018)

And your also a straw manning piece of shit. Nowhere did anyone imply that Akainu is equal to WB. Someone doesn't need to be fucking equal to powerscale them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 18, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> admirals trying to get to WB and being stopped before WB/Akainu clash?



Sakazuki punched two holes in his torso, Kizaru lazored him and Kuzan froze him. What are you saying ? WB bisento'd Kuzan and it wasn't effective.

They are in the same level, WB's stronger/more destructive of course, but they should be scaled to the same feat.

Edit: 

On a non-related note:


GLORIOUS, PRAISE THE SUN EVERYONE


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## Kuhzan (Aug 18, 2018)

So you think that WB is over 1000x stronger than Akainu then? If that's how you think it is then you're simply not worth responding to lol.

Didn't address the straw man at all.

Akainu sent WB to his grave. He was not portrayed as a scrub to WB like you seem to think. 

Comparing stab wounds and bullets to having half your brain melted... get real.

Other Yonkous have been compared to him numerous times. WB is leagues ahead of Admirals and Yonkous.

One Piece has no fucking God Tier either.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kuhzan (Aug 18, 2018)

Fujitoras meteors are in the hundreds of gigatons. Him lifting the rubble is in the gigatons in terms of PE. Fujitoras Fierce Tiger is in the 
Gigatons.

Who fucking cares really though. It is such a non argument. You cannot apply a characters casual feats to discredit his scaling. Really any fucking feats. The only feat that matters is that the Admirals cockblocked an attack from WB with zero trouble.


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## Dr. White (Aug 18, 2018)

Kuhzan said:


> And you're also lying. Akainu instantly recovered from the bloodlusted shot and gave WB a fatal blow.


Yes, he got schlept afterwards


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## Dr. White (Aug 18, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Sakazuki punched two holes in his torso, Kizaru lazored him and Kuzan froze him. What are you saying ? WB bisento'd Kuzan and it wasn't effective.


Yes, and did you miss the part about WB's stamina and general constitution being shit? 
> Squardo stabbed him.
> Fodder Marines and BB's crew injured his body. 

When did they freeze/laser WB?

uhm yeah, because Kuzan is a logia. 



> They are in the same level,* WB's stronger/more destructive of course*, but they should be scaled to the same feat.


wtf? No lol/ You don't even agree with yourself.




> Akainu sent WB to his grave. He was not portrayed as a scrub to WB like you seem to think.


You mean the grave that WB was already straddling for years 

Akainu's finishing blow didn't even kill him right there. Once again, this being a blow landed after WB's heart attack and stabbing.



> Comparing stab wounds and bullets to having half your brain melted... get real.


special pleading? You argue that akainu melting his brain grants Akainu some magical correlation to WB's DC, yet not the marines who were doing with what they had and still injuring him? These maries being millions of times weaker than akainu?

I also never said that Akainu is trash to him. He just doesn't scale to the same shit. Our numerical gaps don't directly coincide with the actual power gap lmao, which is why people here can be scaled to the same feat despite one being >>> the other. Like when Meliodas got scaled to Dolor's island level feat...after whooping his and gloxinia's asses.



> Other Yonkous have been compared to him numerous times. WB is leagues ahead of Admirals and Yonkous.


Ok?



> One Piece has no fucking God Tier either.


WB's deathbed emmy combat performance puts this notion to bed.



Kuhzan said:


> Fujitoras meteors are in the hundreds of gigatons.


I don't recall that ever being accepted due to scaling. Even if it was, Fujitora is only pulling the meteors, the damage they do from impact has nothing to do with him. Also still not even close to small continent. 




> Him lifting the rubble is in the gigatons in terms of PE.


*single digit gigatons.*



> Fujitoras Fierce Tiger is in the
> Gigatons.


When was this even calced? I mean by scaling of course it is, but it didn't really do anything to warrant a gigaton calc/



> Who fucking cares really though. It is such a non argument. You cannot apply a characters casual feats to discredit his scaling.


Yes I can, when those characters are not only inferior from a portrayal standpoint, but also have nothing of there own that even remotely matches up. 

And lol at casual. 
> Kizaru freezing the tsunami was so that a shit ton of people didn't get drowned. 
> Akainu's lava business was not casual.

I will give you Kizaru's mangrove kick.

Point is there are too many factors, in combo with this specific point, that really don't bode well for this scaling you speak of.



> Really any fucking feats. The only feat that matters is that the Admirals cockblocked an attack from WB with zero trouble.


> WB injured Teach. Teach is scaled.
> G2 pre skip Luffy hurt BB. Luffy is scaled.
> Ace matched an attack from serious Kuzan. He get's scaled.
> Jozu made Aokiji bleed through his logia, and survived being frozen solid. He gets scaled.
> Marco got pierced multiple times with seastone cuffs by Kizaru, and he and vista cut through akainu's neck/shoulder. They should scale. 
> Navy standard arms are small continental/
That's all that matters.


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## Dellinger (Aug 18, 2018)

WB wasnt the strongest man anymore thst was the whole point. Not to mention that Aces novel that was supervised by Oda clearly states that Kaido was the strongest even pre skip


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## Blαck (Aug 18, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> .
> 
> Point is there are too many factors, in combo with this specific point, that really don't bode well for this scaling you speak of.
> 
> ...



Just to touch up on a few things, furious tiger or whatever being gigatons is sorta old news, low island iirc.

As for some of the feats above, what do you consider casual? 

Because some of those scaling make sense in context. Blacjbeard is a tank so he should get scaling, even more so because his fruit fucks him more for it. Hell prolly explains why luffy duff'd him.

Ace and kuzan are on some Pokemon literal opposite type shit so no I wouldn't give ace scaling.

Marco taking the lasers is fine, dudes a first mate if he's only good for his df than wb needs a better screening process.

Marco and vista being unable to hurt akainu is actually a feat for akainus haki. Similar to luffy hurting his hand when clashing kata.

As for wbs durability and the fodder hurting him? Well...plot and shit. Or call him a glorified glass cannon.


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## Kaaant (Aug 18, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Sakazuki punched two holes in his torso, Kizaru lazored him and Kuzan froze him.



How the fuck is it still a debate when all this happened. 

Akainu melts half his face off for Christ’s sake. 

And the three of them can stop his quake with Haki. 

The hoops you have to jump through to pretend none of this happened is unreal. Downright pathetic honestly.


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## Mythoclast (Aug 18, 2018)

WB's durability during MF was absolute dogshit.It's almost as if Oda went out of his way to portray that.Damaging him is not a point in Akainu's favour at all.

I don't see an issue with the Admirals' haki scene tho.Country level Admirals is fine by me.


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## Kaaant (Aug 18, 2018)

It’s amazing how low end feats are being used to debunk the admirals here. Like that shit flies in any other series.


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## Kaaant (Aug 18, 2018)

Mythoclast said:


> WB's durability during MF was absolute dogshit.It's almost as if Oda went out of his way to portray that.Damaging him is not a point in Akainu's favour at all.
> 
> I don't see an issue with the Admirals' haki scene tho.Country level Admirals is fine by me.



Of course it is. He’s not “destroy the world” tier but he’s still strong.

So any incredulous claims of “they can’t scale to him because he’s too stronk” is bullshit. The petaton calc comes from oldbeard himself, and it’s downright ridiculous to suggest he can’t take his own attacks when he is at the epicentre.

Chapter one Luffy can take bullets for crying out loud  I mean really, let’s cut the bullshit here.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 18, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> When did they freeze/laser WB?





Dr. White said:


> wtf? No lol/ You don't even agree with yourself.



I never said that WB isn't the strongets, that's headcanon. It's like who is stronger: All Might or AFO ? All Might has more raw power, but AFO clearly is in the same ballpark, and if All Might gets a feat, then AFO is scaled to it. Get it ? WB is stronger, yes, but Sakazuki gets the scaling because of being so close that he can trade blows with them. If Roger has a feat later in the series, then we scale it to Garp and WB, why ? Because they are all in the same ballpark. 



Dr. White said:


> > Fodder Marines and BB's crew injured his body.



CLEAR CIS/PIS IS FUCKING CLEAR. If Luffy punched Old WB even post TS with G4 KKG WB would be uninjured, that has waaay more energy than bullets and shit. That's the fucking thing in fiction with bullets/guns/free fall. In the battle against Pica, Zoro was worried about his fall, even though he's in the Mt range, where free fall from the fucking outer space won't harm him, that's fucking PIS. Using that to say that WB's dura is weak is fucking retarded. Same shit with Law being pierced by bullets, come on.


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## Dellinger (Aug 18, 2018)

WB isnt a thousand times stronger than the other top tiers, period. 

Its also extremely hypocritical from white bringing up that WB has a petaton feat while the rest dont. If we go by that logic nnt has only one island level feat and the rest are like double digit megatons at best


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## Dellinger (Aug 18, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> Of course it is. He’s not “destroy the world” tier but he’s still strong.
> 
> So any incredulous claims of “they can’t scale to him because he’s too stronk” is bullshit. The petaton calc comes from oldbeard himself, and it’s downright ridiculous to suggest he can’t take his own attacks when he is at the epicentre.
> 
> Chapter one Luffy can take bullets for crying out loud  I mean really, let’s cut the bullshit here.


Teach was replicating similar feats instantly when he got the gura fruit and he shat himself when he saw akainu


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## Kaaant (Aug 18, 2018)

Nah but mel and his bro can just full counter each other all day they’re actually planet level my guy didn’t you know this. It’s only ok to wank multipliers when it’s for NNT


I shoulda known WB was weaker than early part one luffy in durability huh fellas

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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 18, 2018)

Mythoclast said:


> WB's durability during MF was absolute dogshit.It's almost as if Oda went out of his way to portray that.Damaging him is not a point in Akainu's favour at all.
> 
> I don't see an issue with the Admirals' haki scene tho.Country level Admirals is fine by me.



He was portrayed as that because Oda wanted to give the most badass panel of all his manga "XXX Bullets, XX Canons, XXX Swords, but his proud back has never received an injury(Meaning that he never turned his back either on his sons, nor running from a fight, because if you get an injury in your back, it means that you were running away)". WB shouldn't be hurt at all by bullets or canons, fucking Luffy's punches would do jack shit to him and Luffy's punches carry more weight than bullets or canons, by far.

Not the only scene where the admirals tank attacks from WB. 

Also, people just got to remember that the Petaton calc for Old WB is fucking _side-effect_. _SIDE EFFECT_. Sakazuki was matching the quake in CQC, with full power, point blank range. The petaton calc is what happens as a side effect of WB's quake.


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## Dellinger (Aug 18, 2018)

This is similar to the Katakuri chinjao stuff. Katakuri csnt be stronger than chinjao because it isnt a good thing for luffy to be a top tier


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 18, 2018)

People really mad about One Piss huh


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 18, 2018)

Dellinger said:


> This is similar to the Katakuri chinjao stuff. Katakuri csnt be stronger than chinjao because it isnt a good thing for luffy to be a top tier



Oh, the infamous " KaTAkUrI iS WeAKer tHaN cHInJAo bEcAusE rEaSoNS ".


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## Dr. White (Aug 18, 2018)

Dellinger said:


> Teach was replicating similar feats instantly when he got the gura fruit and he shat himself when he saw akainu


Dellinger, proving each day that he cannot read.


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## Kaaant (Aug 18, 2018)

On a totally tangential question; is it actually stated anywhere that Chinjao got weaker over time. 

Because did he not state that Sai surpassed him? 




OneSimpleAnime said:


> People really mad about One Piss huh



It is pretty piss tbh but that doesn’t mean I’m going to lie and pretend it’s somehow different to all the other series out there that get fair treatment.


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## Dellinger (Aug 18, 2018)

Also people should read the novel. WB being the sttongest man was a thing from his past. Kaido is the strongest in one on one even with WB being alive. Oda gave reasons as to why the yonko can be scary such as WB being scary when someone goes against his law of conduct, Shanks is scary when he getd mad, Big Mom when is scary if she is in a bad mood and Kaido is scary just by existing


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## Dellinger (Aug 18, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> On a totally tangential question; is it actually stated anywhere that Chinjao got weaker over time.
> 
> Because did he not state that Sai surpassed him?
> 
> ...


Well Chinjao said he got weaker after his fight with Luffy


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## Dellinger (Aug 18, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Dellinger, proving each day that he cannot read.


And you prove with each post that you are the biggest hypocrite in this section


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## Blαck (Aug 18, 2018)

Dellinger said:


> Also people should read the novel. WB being the sttongest man was a thing from his past. Kaido is the strongest in one on one even with WB being alive. Oda gave reasons as to why the yonko can be scary such as WB being scary when someone goes against his law of conduct, Shanks is scary when he getd mad, Big Mom when is scary if she is in a bad mood and Kaido is scary just by existing



Well, you know novels tend to get swept under the rug until proven to be completely canon. Might have to bring some proof.



Kaaant said:


> On a totally tangential question; is it actually stated anywhere that Chinjao got weaker over time.
> 
> Because did he not state that Sai surpassed him?
> 
> ...



I think he did mention something about being slightly weaker in his old age


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## Kaaant (Aug 18, 2018)

Blαck said:


> I think he did mention something about being slightly weaker in his old age



Was asking because of this



But I know nothing of one piece really.


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## Dellinger (Aug 18, 2018)

Blαck said:


> Well, you know novels tend to get swept under the rug until proven to be completely canon. Might have to bring some proof.
> 
> 
> 
> I think he did mention something about being slightly weaker in his old age


Oda was supervising it


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## Dr. White (Aug 18, 2018)

Dellinger said:


> And you prove with each post that you are the biggest hypocrite in this section


topkek, you aren't even purposefully twisting my argument, just too dumb to understand. It's okay though, I will buy you some stiletto's as a gift


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## Mythoclast (Aug 18, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> Of course it is. He’s not “destroy the world” tier but he’s still strong.
> 
> So any incredulous claims of “they can’t scale to him because he’s too stronk” is bullshit. The petaton calc comes from oldbeard himself, and it’s downright ridiculous to suggest he can’t take his own attacks when he is at the epicentre.


How does this shit work in this particular case?
Aren't his quakes being produced above ground?




Kaaant said:


> Chapter one Luffy can take bullets for crying out loud  I mean really, let’s cut the bullshit here.


Shit clearly went over board,but WB durability was still crap.That was heavily pushed throughout the entire arc.So getting harmed by country level shit isn't far fetched by any means.



Mr. Black Leg said:


> He was portrayed as that because Oda wanted to give the most badass panel of all his manga "XXX Bullets, XX Canons, XXX Swords, but his proud back has never received an injury(Meaning that he never turned his back either on his sons, nor running from a fight, because if you get an injury in your back, it means that you were running away)". WB shouldn't be hurt at all by bullets or canons, fucking Luffy's punches would do jack shit to him and Luffy's punches carry more weight than bullets or canons, by far.
> 
> Not the only scene where the admirals tank attacks from WB.
> 
> Also, people just got to remember that the Petaton calc for Old WB is fucking _side-effect_. _SIDE EFFECT_. Sakazuki was matching the quake in CQC, with full power, point blank range. The petaton calc is what happens as a side effect of WB's quake.


That theme seems like one thing he was going for.
Showing how far he had declined because of his disease is another thing too


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## Mythoclast (Aug 18, 2018)

Dellinger said:


> Oda was supervising it


Since when was this ever enough for stuff to be considered canon?


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## Kaaant (Aug 18, 2018)

Mythoclast said:


> Shit clearly went over board,but WB durability was still crap.That was heavily pushed throughout the entire arc.So getting harmed by country level shit isn't far fetched by any means.



Yeah but I think we saw that despite being past his best he was still powerful. He’s not going to be weaker in durability than anyone else to be honest that isn’t conveniently a logia. This was also all before oda magicked COA out his ass and WB should have that shit just like anyone else (who didn’t demonstrate it in mf) unless I’m missing something.


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 19, 2018)

Just wanting to note that the OP faction does not need to convince each other that the character they think wins is a certain level 

What you need to do is convince others that he is.

Literal circlejerking, and upvoting/liking each other’s posts may make you feel good since you have fellow supporters viewing things liked you do yourselves 

But that will not change the scaling for the admirals in the OBD in general 

So I would still vouch for a general revision thread regarding the matter


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## Kaaant (Aug 19, 2018)

Gonna have to actually throw out a counter argument beyond “I’m not convinced” then. You’ll just be ignored otherwise when it looks like the majority of people thus far are in agreement. 

>agreeing with each other is circlejerking

I don’t even like one piss.


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## Kaaant (Aug 19, 2018)

It’s also really ironic when there was never a discussion on the validity of the nnt multiplier. It literally manifested out the aether and was treated as gospel by a handful of people who agreed with each other.


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 19, 2018)

So you are saying that you don’t want to make a revision thread, ignore everyone who disagrees with your assessment, will push for this to be treated as accepted because a number of OP supporters say so and the reason why it’s ok is “I don’t even like one piss”? 

Eh suit yourself then


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## Kaaant (Aug 19, 2018)

Not against a meta thread. Why can’t anyone who disagrees with it just post it in here as that’s been the topic of conversation most of the time?  

You said I’m a supporter when I’m not. I happen to agree with them.


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## Dellinger (Aug 19, 2018)

RavenSupreme said:


> Just wanting to note that the OP faction does not need to convince each other that the character they think wins is a certain level
> 
> What you need to do is convince others that he is.
> 
> ...


This is no different than the Kizaru-Rayleigh stuff where no one had a valid proof against sub rel OP yet most are against it because they simply dont want sub rel top tiers

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dellinger (Aug 19, 2018)

Mythoclast said:


> Since when was this ever enough for stuff to be considered canon?


It is when it doesnt contradict any Canon stuff. Which it clearly doesnt.  It just tells Aces story in detail


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## Kaaant (Aug 19, 2018)

I’m an outsider and I don’t understand how every other op character is what their element is except kizaru for some reason. 

What about Kuma saying he sent people flying at the speed of light or something like that? What was the issue with it as this was all before my time.


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## Dellinger (Aug 19, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> I’m an outsider and I don’t understand how every other op character is what their element is except kizaru for some reason.
> 
> What about Kuma saying he sent people flying at the speed of light or something like that? What was the issue with it as this was all before my time.


Kuma doesnt attack at the speed of light. People use thst as a reason to downplay and call hyperbole even the Kizaru stuff. 

What Kuma does is that he uses his fruit to repel air or anything else. The air is being repel at the speed of light to create a shockwave.  Nothing about the sttack itself traveling at light speed


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## Steven (Aug 19, 2018)

Dellinger said:


> WB wasnt the strongest man anymore thst was the whole point.


This.He said himself he can not be the strongest forever

Let alone that we have Kaido and Mihawk.And both are stronger than WB


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## Adamant soul (Aug 19, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> This was also all before oda magicked COA out his ass and WB should have that shit just like anyone else (who didn’t demonstrate it in mf) unless I’m missing something.



Pretty sure COA (as well as the other two forms of haki) were already a thing before Marineford.


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## Adamant soul (Aug 19, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> Let alone that we have Kaido and Mihawk.And both are stronger than WB



I see where Kaido being stronger comes from but how in the hell is Mihawk stronger when one of WB's commanders easily blocked Mihawk's slash? 

Mihawk is admiral/Shanks level at best, ergo weaker than Whitebeard.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Aug 19, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> This.He said himself he can not be the strongest forever
> 
> Let alone that we have Kaido and Mihawk.And both are stronger than WB



mihawks stronger than who?


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## Steven (Aug 19, 2018)

Adamant soul said:


> I see where Kaido being stronger comes from but how in the hell is Mihawk stronger when one of WB's commanders easily blocked Mihawk's slash?


PIS.He should have no problems with Jozu or Vista

And WSS>Any other Swordfighter.Thanks to Chapter 912,we know that WB´s Bisento count as Sword.He is also ridiculous faster


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 19, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> PIS.He should have no problems with Jozu or Vista
> 
> And WSS>Any other Swordfighter.Thanks to Chapter 912,we know that WB´s Bisento count as Sword.He is also ridiculous faster



Just because someone carried a sword doesn’t mean he is a swordfighter 

You are considered a swordfighter when your main means of attacking comes from your sword

WBs main means of attacking stems from his devil fruit 

Might as well call everyone who wears jogging pants a marathon runner just because in a hurry they go fast


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## Adamant soul (Aug 19, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> PIS.He should have no problems with Jozu or Vista



Except Mihawk has no actual feats of harming characters at that level. The only reason we know he's at least Shanks level is because the two were rivals and the only reason they're not anymore is because Shanks lost an arm and Mihawk called it off.


> And WSS>Any other Swordfighter.Thanks to Chapter 912,we know that WB´s Bisento count as Sword.He is also ridiculous faster



Whitebeard is not primarily a sword fighter, he's a fist fighter that just happens to have a sword. What next, are you going to call Luffy a swordsman because he used swords that one time against Arlong?


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## Dellinger (Aug 19, 2018)

WBs bisento doesnt count as a sword it counts as a named weapon


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## Steven (Aug 19, 2018)

Adamant soul said:


> Except Mihawk has no actual feats of harming characters at that level. The only reason we know he's at least Shanks level is because the two were rivals and the only reason they're not anymore is because Shanks lost an arm and Mihawk called it off.
> 
> 
> Whitebeard is not primarily a sword fighter, he's a fist fighter that just happens to have a sword. What next, are you going to call Luffy a swordsman because he used swords that one time against Arlong?


Mihawk is still the WSS and automatically stronger than dudes like Shanks and Shanks is a fucking Yonkou.

Besides, he has never had an injury and a amazing Dura unlike WB where get blitzed by Squardo and harmed by Fodder Marine.WB is not a Tank ala BM or Kaido.His Trash Tier dura is consistent.But he has an extreme endurance.

Mihawk also has the speed advantage.And if my theory,that Mihawk is IM,legitimate is,he is even at the top of the world

And no,Ruffy is NOT a Swordman


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## uchihakil (Aug 19, 2018)

Why can't gowther mindfuck them again?? And yes, Mel should be able to soul fuck because its a generic demin clan move, pretty much like how the uchiha clan can use fire style.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 19, 2018)

Kaaant said:


> What about Kuma saying he sent people flying at the speed of light or something like that? What was the issue with it as this was all before my time.



It's an hyperbole and IIRC it comes from sketchy translation that actually means " near the speed of light ".



RavenSupreme said:


> Just wanting to note that the OP faction does not need to convince each other that the character they think wins is a certain level
> 
> What you need to do is convince others that he is.
> 
> ...





Dreams of Tommorow said:


> agreed



Funny you two say that when 1 - I posted several, not one, not two, but several scans that prove that Sakazuki is in fact on par with WB, even though WB is superior, 2 - This logic applies in every other fiction, when there are two people who are both close to each other even though one of them is clearly superior, the calc and scaling is valid for the both of them(I even gave the example of AFO and All Might) and finally 3 - Them quakes results were both an after effect and casual from WB. Saying that Sakazuki can't match WB at full power is one thing worthy of discussion, now saying that Sakazuki can't match WB's casual attacks is downright not supported by the manga, because he did just that and I already gave the panel for that.



Adamant soul said:


> Pretty sure COA (as well as the other two forms of haki) were already a thing before Marineford.



1 - CoA was not, both the other ones were though

Yes it was, Kuja and Sentomaru. Forgot about those two, sorry.

2 - It was not explained. We were like "What the fuck is this Haki thing they are taking about ?" for like ... Another 30 chapters.



Acnologia said:


> Let alone that we have Kaido and Mihawk.And both are stronger than WB





Non-canon opinions pulled out of Acnologia's ass intensifies.

OH WAIT.

It's Acnologia, why are we paying attention ?


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## shade0180 (Aug 19, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> Is Akinu Mach 50


MHS is anything higher than mach 100 so he definitely isn't mach 50.

As for the answer to your other question, the last value I remember is 1978 or something around that.


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## Dr. White (Aug 19, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> This.He said himself he can not be the strongest forever
> 
> Let alone that we have Kaido and Mihawk.And both are stronger than WB


No it wasn't..

Wb saying that was a testament to his health failing and skill degrading, but he was still CLEARLY stronger than any one person at MF. 

Mihawk legit couldn't even test WB's strength lmao, and the fact he sought to test his slash vs old WB in the first place, took 3 admirals to stop his haki and almost tiltied MF multiple times should tell you something.

The only person who could be argued for is Shanks, given his portrayal when clashing haki with WB, and even then that was "even", not w/ Shanks being stronger. Shanks also being the man who told Bloodlusted akainu, mid kill, to go kick rocks and stop his war, that would have ultimately ended up with the Marines beating WB side, killing Luffy and Ace, and being much better off.

He also had Mihawk running scared trying to sneak through the back exit


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## Dr. White (Aug 19, 2018)

Mihawk > Shanks?


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## Dr. White (Aug 19, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Funny you two say that when 1 - I posted several, not one, not two, but several scans that prove that Sakazuki is in fact on par with WB, even though WB is superior, 2 - This logic applies in every other fiction, when there are two people who are both close to each other even though one of them is clearly superior, the calc and scaling is valid for the both of them(I even gave the example of AFO and All Might) and finally 3 - Them quakes results were both an after effect and casual from WB. Saying that Sakazuki can't match WB at full power is one thing worthy of discussion, now saying that Sakazuki can't match WB's casual attacks is downright not supported by the manga, because he did just that and I already gave the panel for that.


That's not how it works bud. It just so happens that WB's casual feat is the highest output due to the after effects it caused. WB's other more serious feats in the war don't even come close and you wouldn't say that WB was putting more effort in those earlier casual quakes as opposed to near the endtrying to save ace. So for now that is top output for WB, and the whole verse by quite some distance. 

There are many reasons why Saka doesn't scale in DC.


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 19, 2018)

You guys bore me! 

But I'll keep watching.


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## Steven (Aug 19, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> It's an hyperbole and IIRC it comes from sketchy translation that actually means " near the speed of light ".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


>Used Abilities which Char XYZ never showed
>Pretty much all of your counterpoints are "LolPIS"

But oh wait its Mr. Black Leg,whit his own fanfic.Do you even read OP?Or do you take your arguments out of your ass?


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## Steven (Aug 19, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Mihawk legit couldn't even test WB's strength lmao,


Lol,He wasn't even talking about strength. He was talking about PHYSICAL distance across the ice.


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## Steven (Aug 19, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Mihawk > Shanks?


Yes,and that's not even debatable


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Aug 19, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> Yes,and that's not even debatable



you wild right now bro


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 19, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> >Pretty much all of your counterpoints are "LolPIS"



Yes, some random marines even touching WB is fucking PIS. If you disagree with that, you are fucking crazy, the top dog of the series even being touched by fodder is nothing short of PIS.



Acnologia said:


> But oh wait its Mr. Black Leg,whit his own fanfic.Do you even read OP?Or do you take your arguments out of your ass?



Fanfic ? One proponent of " NATSU KUGELBLITZ LVL TEMPERATURES " saying that _I_ am the one that makes fanfic ? Topkek.

Also:

> The admirals casuallys stopped WB's quake.
> Sakazuki later was matching WB's quake. 
> The fucking scan was posted here BY ME
> "Fanfic" 

Go wank FT and get the hell out of this discussion. If you think Mihawk who was stopped by Jozu has a chance in hell to touch WB, then you are the one writting fanfic. 



Acnologia said:


> >Used Abilities which Char XYZ never showed



What ability Sakazuki, Kuzan, Kizaru and Fujitora never showed that I claimed here ?



Dr. White said:


> That's not how it works bud. It just so happens that WB's casual feat is the highest output due to the after effects it caused. WB's other more serious feats in the war don't even come close and you wouldn't say that WB was putting more effort in those earlier casual quakes as opposed to near the endtrying to save ace. So for now that is top output for WB, and the whole verse by quite some distance.



It just so happens that WB needed to go way beyond casual to fight Sakazuki, meaning Sakazuki gets the fucking scaling. 



Dr. White said:


> Wb saying that was a testament to his health failing and skill degrading, but he was still CLEARLY stronger than any one person at MF.



Yes.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 19, 2018)

This last one, Sakazuki matches WB TWICE. So tell me where the fuck is the fanfic ?


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## Masterblack06 (Aug 19, 2018)




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## Kaaant (Aug 19, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> This last one, Sakazuki matches WB TWICE. So tell me where the fuck is the fanfic ?



Show kizaru shooting him too.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Aug 19, 2018)

there’s blood coming out of whitebeards mouth 

how much damage had akainu taken before that manga panel?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 19, 2018)

WB intercepeting Kizaru's movement. Was Kizaru hurt ? No. Kizaru then defended against WB's attack and lazored WB.





Was that what you were asking @Kaaant ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 19, 2018)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> there’s blood coming out of whitebeards mouth
> 
> how much damage had akainu taken before that manga panel?



And then it starts, after I showed evidence there will be the " WB wasn't fine and Sakazuki was " even though some posts ago it was " WB can't ever be matched " . It'll be a fun sight to see you guys changing the argument from " WB > Sakazuki no questions asked " to " WB was already hurt ".

Sakazuki wasn't hurt at all. Actually, in the entire war, he was hurt exactly twice. Both times by the strongest guy there going at full power. Sakazuki was perfectly fine with WB's casual attacks until then. The fact that Marco and Vista couldn't even put a dent to Sakazuki further evidences how he can only be harmed by WB going at full power(Because, again, I showed that WB using less than his full power didn't do much of anything).

Just remembering that Casual WB is Country level.

Edit: Just to put this out here:



Casual. For the three of them it was very, VERY casual. Even boring, probably.


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## Dr. White (Aug 19, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> Lol,He wasn't even talking about strength. He was talking about PHYSICAL distance across the ice.


what the actual fuck lmao? No he wasn't trying to measure the actual distance between he and WB. He was sending a slash to measure the gap between he and WB figuratively


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 19, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> what the actual fuck lmao? No he wasn't trying to measure the actual distance between he and WB. He was sending a slash to measure the gap between he and WB figuratively



Fucking god, thanks. I had to say this so much over OL I am now dull to the fucking scene.


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## Kaaant (Aug 19, 2018)

So what is the actual argument against country level admirals when each has affected WB with their powers?


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## Kingdom Come (Aug 19, 2018)

I think Acnologia's referring to this one.
credits to GB


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 19, 2018)

Kingdom Come said:


> I think Acnologia's referring to this one.
> credits to GB



Oh god, we were rude to Acnologia-senpai for no reason, I feel bad.


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## Steven (Aug 19, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Fanfic ? One proponent of " NATSU KUGELBLITZ LVL TEMPERATURES " saying that _I_ am the one that makes fanfic ? Topkek.


Nice Straw Man but i never said that.That was OMGMAN aka COV.Stop lying you fucking hypocrite

Oh look again,a post full of "LolPIS,TopKekPIS"

But I did not expect any more from an OP fan.Just continue your OP Wank


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## Steven (Aug 19, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> what the actual fuck lmao? No he wasn't trying to measure the actual distance between he and WB. He was sending a slash to measure the gap between he and WB figuratively


Lol no
"Doflamingo: ! // Fufufu... actually gonna fight, are ya...?
Mihawk: This is merely conjecture... but it seems rather small. // The true distance between us and that man..."

He wasn't even talking about strength. He was talking about PHYSICAL distance across the ice.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 19, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> Nice Straw Man but i never said that.That was OMGMAN aka COV.Stop lying you fucking hypocrite



I probably am confusing the FT wankers on the site, if it wasn't you, then sorry.



> Oh look again,a post full of "LolPIS,TopKekPIS"



Well, debunk it then. You're gonna have a hard time trying to prove that literal fodders should be able to harm the World's Strongest Man in that verse. Even at his worse, even while half-dead standing in front of Teach, those fodder would lose to WB. They should have no business harming WB. That's a Firelord vs Spiderman, even worse, because WB represents the ceiling of power in his verse and those are literal fodder.



> But I did not expect any more from an OP fan.Just continue your OP Wank



Literally, three posts full of scans, providing irrefutable proof of what I'm saying and your best argument is "nuh-uh" .

Here, I'll quote them so you don't have the argument that you didn't see them:



Mr. Black Leg said:


> This last one, Sakazuki matches WB TWICE. So tell me where the fuck is the fanfic ?





Mr. Black Leg said:


> WB intercepeting Kizaru's movement. Was Kizaru hurt ? No. Kizaru then defended against WB's attack and lazored WB.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Mr. Black Leg said:


> And then it starts, after I showed evidence there will be the " WB wasn't fine and Sakazuki was " even though some posts ago it was " WB can't ever be matched " . It'll be a fun sight to see you guys changing the argument from " WB > Sakazuki no questions asked " to " WB was already hurt ".
> 
> Sakazuki wasn't hurt at all. Actually, in the entire war, he was hurt exactly twice. Both times by the strongest guy there going at full power. Sakazuki was perfectly fine with WB's casual attacks until then. The fact that Marco and Vista couldn't even put a dent to Sakazuki further evidences how he can only be harmed by WB going at full power(Because, again, I showed that WB using less than his full power didn't do much of anything).
> 
> ...



Edit: 





Dr. White said:


> holy shit



That guy's reading comprehension is something else isn't it ? To post something contradicting what he says and stand proud like he was right is just something I can't even begin to be able to do. He's an OBD Trump, he could be standing in rain and say that it is a sunny day.


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## Dr. White (Aug 19, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> It just so happens that WB needed to go way beyond casual to fight Sakazuki, meaning Sakazuki gets the fucking scaling.


Because WB was dying and handicapped by the fact that he couldn't go all out. There was a considerable gap between WB output of power and the admirals. They don't scale to his DC and I'e outlined why. Don't feel like typing in all the other stuff.




> This last one, Sakazuki matches WB TWICE. So tell me where the fuck is the fanfic ?


The first one is null because WB's DC comes from the Gura. Idk the context of the second one and what happens afterwards.


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## Kingdom Come (Aug 19, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> Lol no
> "Doflamingo: ! // Fufufu... actually gonna fight, are ya...?
> Mihawk: This is merely conjecture... but it seems rather small. // The true distance between us and that man..."
> 
> He wasn't even talking about strength. He was talking about PHYSICAL distance across the ice.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 19, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Because WB was dying and handicapped by the fact that he couldn't go all out.



Literally his first(Casual) assault thad that much energy, he was only not trying not to aim at his comrades . If you seriously think that he'd go soft on Sakazuki of all people, you are wrong. Also, the attack that originated the haki defense was literally aimed at the scaffold were Ace was kept. So yeah, he knew what he was doing and he was using at least the same power that he used in his first strike that amounts to casual WB. Of course only his last three strikes(Against Teach and Sakazuki) were ALL OUT indeed, but the calc comes from him CASUALLY. If he attacked you and you tanked, then you got the scaling, because it was casual as fuck that we got that number for him. 



Dr. White said:


> There was a considerable gap between WB output of power and the admirals.



When he went all out ? Yes. But the 1.2 Pt number is _casual_. And Sakazuki, as well as Kuzan and Kizaru were outright attacked by WB and they seemed fine.



Dr. White said:


> The first one is null because WB's DC comes from the Gura. Idk the context of the second one and what happens afterwards.



The first one he was using his bubble on the bisento. And that's the point: NOTHING HAPPENED TO SAKAZUKI AT ALL. He just traded the blow with WB and it was all ok. He wasn't even harmed.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Affectugender (Aug 19, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> Lol no
> "Doflamingo: ! // Fufufu... actually gonna fight, are ya...?
> Mihawk: This is merely conjecture... but it seems rather small. // The true distance between us and that man..."
> 
> He wasn't even talking about strength. He was talking about PHYSICAL distance across the ice.



This is a joke? 

It gotta be right? Tell me Im right.


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## FrozenFeathers (Aug 19, 2018)

Fang said:


> Aren't the Admirals each at least continental level?


Why stop there?

Go for planet level admirals.
And since OP planet is larger, that makes them large planet=small star level.


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## Sherlōck (Aug 20, 2018)

Akainu - Don't destroy the island with each attack.

Whitebeard - Try to stop me then.

Fandom - Whitebeard was not serious & was going easy.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Aug 20, 2018)

Sherlōck said:


> Akainu - Don't destroy the island with each attack.
> 
> Whitebeard - Try to stop me then.
> 
> Fandom - Whitebeard was not serious & was going easy.



It’s called talking shit you ever tried it?

unless you want to argue wb is so stupid he’d suicide ace to get a point across 

you tell me


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## SirTorch (Aug 20, 2018)

Did anybody consider that the Large Country level quakes calculation might be an outlier 

It was accepted since Whitebeard was considered >>> everyone else, but with all this talk of admirals = whitebeard, it might actually be an outlier


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 20, 2018)

SirTorch said:


> Did anybody consider that the Large Country level quakes calculation might be an outlier
> 
> It was accepted since Whitebeard was considered >>> everyone else, but with all this talk of admirals = whitebeard, it might actually be an outlier



> Casual feats from the Admirals were all island level
> "Country level is outlier"

Yeah, I don't know if you understand what outliers are. Outlier is Moon busting when the best in the series is city level. Not going from Island to Country.


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## ho11ow (Aug 20, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> > Casual feats from the Admirals were all island level
> > "Country level is outlier"
> 
> Yeah, I don't know if you understand what outliers are. Outlier is *Moon busting when the best in the series is city level*. Not going from Island to Country.


That not really outliar tbh, it just author fail to portraying a destruction feat. It could be the previous city lvl attack mean to be island/country lvl attack but on panel only appear to be city lvl at best. For example, we often see in many series about statement from narrator or character that saying about country lvl destruction only appear to be city lvl, so when the author want to show something impressive at end of series they tend to exaggerate it by jump to moon lvl feat or beyond.


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## Dr. White (Aug 20, 2018)

SirTorch said:


> Did anybody consider that the Large Country level quakes calculation might be an outlier
> 
> It was accepted since Whitebeard was considered >>> everyone else, but with all this talk of admirals = whitebeard, it might actually be an outlier


Technically it is. GM only used the Radiant energy portion of the calc he did which is the small continent result, but had he actually took the seismic moment (like I did with NnT Dolor calc), it would have resulted in moon level. He used the lower version in order to get it passed , because it should actually be seismic moment energy as WB was clearly the source of the quaking and it's after effects.


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## SirTorch (Aug 20, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Technically it is. GM only used the Radiant energy portion of the calc he did which is the small continent result, but had he actually took the seismic moment (like I did with NnT Dolor calc), it would have resulted in moon level. He used the lower version in order to get it passed , because it should actually be seismic moment energy as WB was clearly the source of the quaking and it's after effects.


Hmm, didn't know that actually. Even more evidence to my point I guess.
Also, does this affect Dolor's calc from NNT in any way?

EDIT: Whoops, missed your mentioning of the dolor calc, my bad


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## Dellinger (Aug 20, 2018)

Not this outlier crap again.  WB is stated to have the power to destroy the world and Oda literally named a chapter and called him the man who shakes the world


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## Dellinger (Aug 20, 2018)

Not this outlier crap again.  WB is stated to have the power to destroy the world and Oda literally named a chapter and called him the man who shakes the world


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 20, 2018)

It wouldn't be an Outlier at all, he was said to be able to destroy the world, everyone in the world was afraid because he was going to fight, etc.

Moon level WB would be glorious. THE MOUSTACHE OF MANLINESS.

EDIT: I GOT FUCKING NINJA'D.

If anything, country level WB is underselling all of his power greatly.


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## SirTorch (Aug 20, 2018)

Weren't people just arguing about admirals being comparable to Whitebeard?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 20, 2018)

SirTorch said:


> Weren't people just arguing about admirals being comparable to Whitebeard?



They are. Whatever Whitebeard threw at them, they weren't bothered by it except when he went into his full power. 

The country level is, as I said MANY MANY TIMES, casual as fuck.

WB going at full power >>>>>>>>>>> Casual WB = Admirals.


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## Dellinger (Aug 20, 2018)

SirTorch said:


> Weren't people just arguing about admirals being comparable to Whitebeard?


People are arguing that the Admirals arent a thousand times weaker than WB which they arent especially when we have Kaido beibg stronger than old WB


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 20, 2018)

Dellinger said:


> People are arguing that the Admirals arent a thousand times weaker than WB which they arent especially when we have Kaido beibg stronger than old WB



He isn't. But different discussion(This is not the place for this discussion ... The OL is).


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## Dellinger (Aug 20, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> He isn't. But different discussion(This is not the place for this discussion ... The OL is).


Ace novel that oda supervised clearly states thst Kaido is the strongest in a one on one fight even when WB wad alive.  There is also a reason why Oda said that Wano will make MF look like nothing.  Kaido is the main reason


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 20, 2018)

Dellinger said:


> Ace novel that oda supervised clearly states thst Kaido is the strongest in a one on one fight even when WB wad alive. There is also a reason why Oda said that Wano will make MF look like nothing. Kaido is the main reason



It wasn't a clear statement as you are making out to be. Just some more statements hyping up him to be the strongest creature as he breathes or something like that. Clearly vague. Not " Kaido > WB " .


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## Dr. White (Aug 20, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> It wouldn't be an Outlier at all, he was said to be able to destroy the world, everyone in the world was afraid because he was going to fight, etc.
> 
> Moon level WB would be glorious. THE MOUSTACHE OF MANLINESS.
> 
> ...


So then by virtue of scaling, everyone now can be scaled in DC to the strongest man with the most destructive fruit. Why even make those two distinctions for WB along with him being the only holder of such a feat, if any top tier can match that output?


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## SirTorch (Aug 20, 2018)

Moon level Whitebeard and admirals


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 20, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> So then by virtue of scaling, everyone now can be scaled in DC to the strongest man with the most destructive fruit. Why even make those two distinctions for WB along with him being the only holder of such a feat, if any top tier can match that output?



When did I say that any Top Tier can match that ? Marco can't, Katakuri can't, Jack can't, Luffy can't, any first mate can't.

The Admirals can all at least tank, going down to one attack would be kinda puny.

Sakazuki can both match and tank.

Shanks (Probably the same as Sakazuki, match and tank).

Garp(Prime).

Kaido(Probably, at the very least he can tank that, possibly he can dsh out too).

BM(Tank, not dish out).

Senogku(Prime).

Roger.

Have you heard of focused power ? Goku's each strike don't need to destroy planets, even if he's going all out. If there was no other top tier, any top tier could solo the world. They stand in a world apart.

Edit: Not to mention this is really conjecture. No one busted out a calc for WB with Moon level. If you want to "end" GM's calc and put the value for the seismic activity or whatever, go ahead. If it ends up being continent or moon level, it will actually make sense. Not to mention that the potential that GM calc'd was already at continent, from Sengoku's own statement.


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## Dr. White (Aug 20, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Marco can't


Uhm, Marco got damaged by Kizaru multiple times while seastoned, and could tango with other admirals physically. He also injured akainu. So yes he gets the scaling. Let's just ignore the portrayal.


, 





> Katakuri can't, Jack can't, Luffy can't, any first mate can't.


who all scale to marco so yes they do.



> The Admirals can all at least tank, going down to one attack would be kinda puny.


For damage soak they should be country+. 



> Sakazuki can both match and tank.


Nope, and this would extend to Kuzan who pretty much equally matched him and injured akainu. Which also pretty much scales to all other admirals. 



> Shanks (Probably the same as Sakazuki, match and tank).


The one who actually scales.



> Garp(Prime).


most likely



> Kaido(Probably, at the very least he can tank that, possibly he can dsh out too).


I can agree to this in durability scaling.



> BM(Tank, not dish out).


special pleading. You don't think she can take out an admiral with DC?



> Have you heard of focused power ? Goku's each strike don't need to destroy planets, even if he's going all out. If there was no other top tier, any top tier could solo the world. They stand in a world apart.


Except that WB has multiple qualifications which put him on another level of combat in general and particularly with DC. The only reason WB didn't solo was because he didn't care about conquering lmao.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 20, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Uhm, Marco got damaged by Kizaru multiple times while seastoned, and could tango with other admirals physically. He also injured akainu. So yes he gets the scaling. Let's just ignore the portrayal.



When did FUCKING MARCO injury Sakazuki ? Marco tangled with Kizaru and yes he was damaged by Kizaru, but he has regen and his kick did fuck all to Kizaru.

Marco gets his shit laughed at by the fandom because of being just a meatshield all the time. Way before Smoothie and her uselessness, Marco was mocked by him being useless.


^All of his interactions with the Admirals(Minus Kizaru lazoring him when he was cuffed), the only one where he doesn't get punked is in the one that he kicks Kuzan's blade, I'll get them all in the form of manga scans if you want me to but it's quite the work since I'll have to basically read the entirety of marineford. He also got punked way harder than any previous attack:


So hard his phoenix mode went out.



Dr. White said:


> who all scale to marco so yes they do.



Yes, they do but Marco got punked by Kizaru. It's important to remember that Marco _was receiving damage _. He was just regenerating. Once he couldn't get his Phoenix powers out he was punked by Kizaru even further. And he was getting laughed at by Sakazuki, along with Vista, and some other couldn't even hurt him with their Haki, whom he called "irritating".



Dr. White said:


> Nope, and this would extend to Kuzan who pretty much equally matched him and injured akainu. Which also pretty much scales to all other admirals.



That's the only part where the scaling is wonky and I'll admit it. Might have something to do with the power to freeze and magma aren't all that good together.



Dr. White said:


> special pleading. You don't think she can take out an admiral with DC?



Honestly ? AFTER WCI ? I DON'T THINK SHE CAN TAKE OUT NAMI WITH HER DC.

Jokes aside, she had some very bad, veeeeery bad, very poor showings and displays of power. I'll wait to judge her DC, it should be in the island level tier at least, because, well, that is what any top tier is getting scaled to, from Kata/Jack to Luffy/Marco they are in that range.


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## Dr. White (Aug 20, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> When did FUCKING MARCO injury Sakazuki ?



When he and Vista cut his neck open? Just because Akainu powered through it doesn't mean he wasn't damaged lmao.



> Marco tangled with Kizaru and yes he was damaged by Kizaru, but he has regen and his kick did fuck all to Kizaru.


It sent Kuzan flying lmao. Clearly he is physically on par with the admirals.

Also his regen got fucked by seastone cuffs so it didn't really matter in that moment. 



> Marco gets his shit laughed at by the fandom because of being just a meatshield all the time. Way before Smoothie and her uselessness, Marco was mocked by him being useless.


ok?





> ^All of his interactions with the Admirals(Minus Kizaru lazoring him when he was cuffed), the only one where he doesn't get punked is in the one that he kicks Kuzan's blade, I'll get them all in the form of manga scans if you want me to but it's quite the work since I'll have to basically read the entirety of marineford. He also got punked way harder than any previous attack:


Not at all. He was continuously portrayed as the WB mate that could duke it out with admirals physically and his ability allowed him to be an immense buffer. Jozu also made Kuzan bleed through his logia, and marco is easily on par in DC.





> So hard his phoenix mode went out.


ok? Garp punches mountains into dust, and intercepted Marco there. This is the same man who would have gien akainu a run for his money had Sengoku not held him down.



Y





> es, they do but Marco got punked by Kizaru. It's important to remember that Marco _was receiving damage _. He was just regenerating. Once he couldn't get his Phoenix powers out he was punked by Kizaru even further.


He survived taking that damage, the same way you are trying to scale Akainu despite the latter _receiving damage._



> And he was getting laughed at by Sakazuki, along with Vista, and some other couldn't even hurt him with their Haki, whom he called "irritating".



No he wasn't. You keep twisting that scene. He legitimately gets his neck cut open and scorns the haki users for getting in his way. Last time you said he "ragdolled" marco and Vista, and now it's he laughs at them when he clearly did nothing of the sort. The cut Akainu suffered did do actual damage, just not enough to make Akainu stop. Compare it to the "injuries" akainu got form Luffy busting the wood poles at the admirals.





> That's the only part where the scaling is wonky and I'll admit it. Might have something to do with the power to freeze and magma aren't all that good together.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can't ignore portrayal in these scenario's or brush stuff aside, when using it to try and scale Akainu to WB in DC.


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## Blαck (Aug 20, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> When he and Vista cut his neck open? Just because Akainu powered through it doesn't mean he wasn't damaged lmao.



He clearly wasn't tho, if someone slices your neck open you're going to give more of a reaction than "meh~haki users"

They damaged his lava form, nothing more. that's like saying luffy actually harmed croc the first time they fought because he dispersed him.



> You can't ignore portrayal in these scenario's or brush stuff aside, when using it to try and scale Akainu to WB in DC.



Tbf Bm hasn't been hyped up in the dc department, iirc only her durability has been mentioned a few times.


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## Dr. White (Aug 20, 2018)

Blαck said:


> He clearly wasn't tho, if someone slices your neck open you're going to give more of a reaction than "meh~haki users"
> 
> They damaged his lava form, nothing more. that's like saying luffy actually harmed croc the first time they fought because he dispersed him.


No...As I said compare that to say Luffy busting all 3 admirals in their ogia forms or kizaru getting shot by fodder...Marco and Vista clearly hit akainu which is why the magma form gets stuck in some transitional form, and hence why he curses the "haki users", because they managed to actual get him a bit before he healed the wound and regenerated.

Uhmmm this is a manga of tanks dude. Dofla was laughing when G2 luffy hit him after LAw fried his insides. Katakuri lanced himself on purpose, WB got stabbed smack dab in the chest and then went on to have a soul searching talk with his son. That's not really an argument for him not being damaged when we clearly see that he was.



> Tbf Bm hasn't been hyped up in the dc department, iirc only her durability has been mentioned a few times.


Except that is blatantly wrong. Big Mom casually tango'd with G4 Luffy, her sword slice sent a piercing shcowkae that was ridiculous, she can create potentially island to multi island storms, and her fire mode is crazy as well. Oda even showed us how strong she was as a kid...so


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 20, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> When he and Vista cut his neck open? Just because Akainu powered through it doesn't mean he wasn't damaged lmao.



He wasn't. At all. He was complaining that they were staling him with haki and he was merely dispersing around.



Dr. White said:


> It sent Kuzan flying lmao. Clearly he is physically on par with the admirals.



Yeah, I guess you're right: to send Kuzan flying you have to have his level of strength


Right ?



Dr. White said:


> Also his regen got fucked by seastone cuffs so it didn't really matter in that moment.



Exactly: the only thing that made Marco to be in that battlefield was his regen. Not his DC or Dura.



Dr. White said:


> Not at all. He was continuously portrayed as the WB mate that could duke it out with admirals physically and his ability allowed him to be an immense buffer. Jozu also made Kuzan bleed through his logia, and marco is easily on par in DC.



How many times do I have to say this before people realize this themselves ? Bleeding in manga/anime generally is for dramatic purposes, not actual damage.


Luffy hit Doflamingo with a punch that did absolute fuck all to him and Doflamingo bled from the mouth.



Dr. White said:


> ok? Garp punches mountains into dust, and intercepted Marco there. This is the same man who would have gien akainu a run for his money had Sengoku not held him down.



Exactly: people in the level of Admirals > Marco.



Dr. White said:


> He survived taking that damage, the same way you are trying to scale Akainu despite the latter _receiving damage._



The last two shots he received damage. But 1 - He doesn't have an ability that lets himself regen, 2 - I'M NOT TRYING TO SCALE FROM THAT, BUT FROM CASUAL ATTACKS. That would be his limit, his damage soak. But he was attacked by casual WB(That is 1.2 Pt) and was unhurt. And I showed you that already.



Dr. White said:


> No he wasn't. You keep twisting that scene. He legitimately gets his neck cut open and scorns the haki users for getting in his way. Last time you said he "ragdolled" marco and Vista, and now it's he laughs at them when he clearly did nothing of the sort. The cut Akainu suffered did do actual damage, just not enough to make Akainu stop. Compare it to the "injuries" akainu got form Luffy busting the wood poles at the admirals.



He wasn't damaged, he got his lava dispersed. That's the same shit as saying that Katakuri received an injury in this scene:


Or Kuzan here:


They get dispersed. He was pissed because they were staling him, not damaging him.

Edit: I forgot to put the image I was talking about with Katakuri.

Edit²: The image was too small.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 20, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> before he healed the wound and regenerated



Logias have in under no circumstance showed that ability. If they get damaged, they are stuck with that scar or they put up their element in that place as a replacement.

They _can't_ _regenerate_. The only ability up until now in One Piece that allows regeneration is Marco's fruit. That only.

Logias and some Paramecias can reform around a lost limb(Like Kuzan or Perospero). But they can't regenerate. If Sakazuki got damaged there, there would be a scar, because they don't have the ability to regenerate flesh.


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## Dr. White (Aug 20, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> He wasn't. At all. He was complaining that they were staling him with haki and he was merely dispersing around.


No, stop being disingenuous. Akainu was xut open hence why he cursed the haki users. Had he not been he would have just got busted open and formed around them for an attack or something. There is no reason for his neck to get stuck like that, and for him to specifically curse their haki. He simply recovered from their blows.




> Yeah, I guess you're right: to send Kuzan flying you have to have his level of strength
> 
> 
> Right ?


Comparing that scene to a Kuzan mid war of top and high tiers, and Marco actually breaking through his ice and sending Aokiji far enough with enough force to actually do damage and keep him away. topkek.





> Exactly: the only thing that made Marco to be in that battlefield was his regen. Not his DC or Dura.


Clearly was physically capable of damaging admirals as were Vista (who was clashing with Mihawk as well) and Jozu (who also took an air slash from Mihawk). Kizaru lasering him up without regen didn't put Marco down, unlike say Kizaru vs Hawkins when he ran out of lives.





> How many times do I have to say this before people realize this themselves ? Bleeding in manga/anime generally is for dramatic purposes, not actual damage.


Uhm no? Blood is 100% a sign of damage....It's called context dude...If the feat is clearly just for dramatics of comedy, then we dismiss it as such, that does not mean blood isn't an indicator of damage anymore...For every dramatic or joke (like nami injuring Sanji, Luffy, etc) there is like 5000 actual instances of blood indicating damage lol.



> Luffy hit Doflamingo with a punch that did absolute fuck all to him and Doflamingo bled from the mouth.


Luffy was injuring him doflamingo just is amazing with damage soak.





> Exactly: people in the level of Admirals > Marco.


By a bit. Which is why even the Gorosei hyped him. He also survived vs Blackbeard, and outside of him, vista and Jozu no one else would be capable of clashing with 2 fruit BB...









> He wasn't damaged, he got his lava dispersed. That's the same shit as saying that Katakuri received an injury in this scene:
> 
> 
> 
> They get dispersed. He was pissed because they were staling him, not damaging him.


Can't explain it much clearer.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 20, 2018)

Oh and if you want to give that scaling to BM ... Go ahead, I'm not stopping you. 

But one thing is true: she didn't show power in the level of Sakazuki, Kuzan or WB. 

If someone calcs these and they get good numbers:



(The skies, there are better panels of the sky that she can make when angry)




Dr. White said:


> Comparing that scene to a Kuzan mid war of top and high tiers, and Marco actually breaking through his ice and sending Aokiji far enough with enough force to actually do damage and keep him away. topkek.



I don't know if Sanji broke his ice but he certainly hit it far away. 



Dr. White said:


> Uhm no? Blood is 100% a sign of damage....It's called context dude...If the feat is clearly just for dramatics of comedy, then we dismiss it as such, that does not mean blood isn't an indicator of damage anymore...For every dramatic or joke (like nami injuring Sanji, Luffy, etc) there is like 5000 actual instances of blood indicating damage lol.



Ok then, he got tagged in the body and damaged by a guy who he shouldn't be, when panels earlier, WB himself couldn't damage him. Some minor inconsistency I'd say.



Dr. White said:


> By a bit. Which is why even the Gorosei hyped him. He also survived vs Blackbeard, and outside of him, vista and Jozu no one else would be capable of clashing with 2 fruit BB...



Exactly. He _survived _Blackbeard. He is nowhere near BB's power. Nor Admirals for that matter.



Dr. White said:


> The point of the stall was that haki users striking him would hit is real body, but akainu has good enough haki and control of his logia, that he quickly turns back into lava, generated more lava to replace the mass, and then went back to human form (the basis of logia regen) . Which is why the whole point of haki users is mentioned, and highlighted. Hence why two random joes displacing Akainu's mass with cuts wouldn't have gotten the same result, and why sakazuki curses them as haki users.



BS. You got an explanation that is not canon. Logias can't regen, period. No logia ever regenerated. If they got part of them hurt, they either replace with their element or they got a scar to show for it. In Kuzan's case he got both.


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## Blαck (Aug 20, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> The point of the stall was that haki users striking him would hit is real body, but akainu has good enough haki and control of his logia, that he quickly turns back into lava, generated more lava to replace the mass, and then went back to human form (the basis of logia regen) . Which is why the whole point of haki users is mentioned, and highlighted. Hence why two random joes displacing Akainu's mass with cuts wouldn't have gotten the same result, and why sakazuki curses them as haki users.


Oh I'm not doubting they couldn't possibly stall him because they did momentarily. But to say they capable of actual harm is something else. because either Akainu's control towers over their own haki or they actually slit dudes throat and he didn't care.



> It clearly was unless you think the power of G2 on his fried and shredded organs wasn't damaging him.
> 
> Red hawk also messed him up earlier. Just because a fighter has immense damage soak and needs inverse stronger attacks to be schlept doesn't mean those lighter moves don't hurt them.


I mean he himself said the g2 attacks didn't hurt so I don't know what else to tell you. The fucked organs on the other hand did infact hurt  tho so no argument there.



> Tanking still means damage though. It matters to what degree something is tanked.


Agreed





> It means she was atleast around high tier as an untrained 8 year old. She has decades of piracy experience.


we have no clue where either of those old dudes sat in power to make that assumption, the other giants throghout the storyare all we have as a ruler.



> She hasn't been pushed and some of her feats are actually better than other top tiers like the admirals. Like her storm feat.



what's that sitting at? Because cloud feat got shit numbers and her title wave hasn't been calc to my knowlegde


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## FrozenFeathers (Aug 20, 2018)

Dellinger said:


> Not this outlier crap again.  WB is stated to have the power to destroy the world and Oda literally named a chapter and called him the man who shakes the world


I know right?
And 'world' means the universe and since this is old nerfed Whitebeard, prime Whitebeard must be multiversal.


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## Kuhzan (Aug 20, 2018)

The three Admirals together blocked a quake from WB.

That quake is easily as strong as the one he used casually at the start of the war.

1.2 Petatons / 3 = 400 Teratons each.

Country Level Admirals and Yonkou.

That way WB is still 3x times stronger than each Admiral.

Anyone who thinks that Casual WB is massively above any of the Admirals is on some serious drugs.

Also, the Moon level WB thing could still be applied but to his Prime Self and it wouldn't affect any of the scalings really.


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## Kuhzan (Aug 20, 2018)

This isn't even close to an outlier either lol.

Casual feats besides this have all been island level. A countrylevel feat is not an outlier whatsoever.

Also Dr. White, you again pulled something out of your ass. GM didn't only radiant energy instead of seismic energy because it would have been outlier otherwise. He didn't mention seismic energy at all when he calced it lol. Saying that he obviously didn't include it because it would've seemed outlierish is ridiculous


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## shade0180 (Aug 20, 2018)

WTF

 OP isn't even continental and you guys are jumping to moon level shit.


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## Kaaant (Aug 20, 2018)

>casual wb is oom above admirals

That’s why he failed to kill akainu when he had nothing to lose and every Admiral’s power affected him


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## Kuhzan (Aug 20, 2018)

Never said that I thought that OP is moon level. Learn to read.

The comment was a hypothetical situation


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## shade0180 (Aug 20, 2018)

The guys you are calling casual whitebeard is sick whitebeard who almost had a heart attack from activating Haki.

Just pointing out.


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## Kaaant (Aug 20, 2018)

Who the petaton calc originally comes from. As has been stated multiple times.


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## Dr. White (Aug 20, 2018)

Kuhzan said:


> This isn't even close to an outlier either lol.
> 
> Casual feats besides this have all been island level. A countrylevel feat is not an outlier whatsoever.
> 
> Also Dr. White, you again pulled something out of your ass. GM didn't only radiant energy instead of seismic energy because it would have been outlier otherwise. He didn't mention seismic energy at all when he calced it lol. Saying that he obviously didn't include it because it would've seemed outlierish is ridiculous


Learn to read. This isn't the first time that was brought up about GM's calc. We used the same methodology and same calculator and the eq calculator gives bith results. Seismic moment is the actual measure of how much energy is in an earthquake and the energy that causes it and produces the after effects. So yes the feat is actually moon level but we inly use the radiant energy


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## Dr. White (Aug 20, 2018)

Kuhzan said:


> The three Admirals together blocked a quake from WB.
> 
> That quake is easily as strong as the one he used casually at the start of the war.
> 
> ...


I actually agree with this.


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## Kaaant (Aug 20, 2018)

How is a moon level feat from WB an outlier when he’s hyped to be much higher than that?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 20, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> OP isn't even continental and you guys are jumping to moon level shit.



Dr. White said that. I have no idea if he's right or not because well, I don't do calcs.


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## Gunstarvillain (Aug 20, 2018)

Holy shit I thought I had a crazy argument 4 pages back.


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## Blαck (Aug 20, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> I actually agree with this.



It's reasonable. So I'm all for it


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 20, 2018)

Blαck said:


> It's reasonable. So I'm all for it


Not very much when Sakazuki matches a blow against WB and then later survives two hits from WB going all out(Still in conditions to give push Marco away).


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## Blαck (Aug 20, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Not very much when Sakazuki matches a blow against WB and then later survives two hits from WB going all out(Still in conditions to give push Marco away).



I know but, that argument never gains any ground. Like every thread go nowhere because neither side gives up. At least this is way the admirals get some benefit instead of none. 

In the meantime we can wait on other feats.


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## Kuhzan (Aug 20, 2018)

So you're good with 400 Teratons?

Would scale to: 

Kaido, Shanks, BM, Teach, Mihawk, Akainu, Aokiji, Fuji, Kizaru, and Ryokugyu. 

Prime Rayleigh, Prime Sengoku, Prime Garp also. Current versions I'm not sure.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kaaant (Aug 20, 2018)

Long overdue.


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## Phantom Thief (Aug 21, 2018)

You know with statements and hype, moon level isn't that crazy when you take into consideration the OP World is bigger than the frikken Sun.


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## Veggie (Aug 21, 2018)

Phantom Thief said:


> You know with statements and hype, moon level isn't that crazy when you take into consideration the OP World is bigger than the frikken Sun.


What the fuck


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## Phantom Thief (Aug 21, 2018)

Veggie said:


> What the fuck



That's what I said


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## LazyWaka (Aug 21, 2018)

Yeah, but you're wrong.

Not counting joke calcs the current accepted size for OP is comparable to Jupiter.

Or was it Uranus? I forget which value we went with. Either way all the star sized calcs were either canned or just made as jokes.

Unless a new calc or author statement was made that I didn't hear about.


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## Kaaant (Aug 21, 2018)

Being comparable to Jupiter is still nuts.


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## Phantom Thief (Aug 21, 2018)

LazyWaka said:


> Yeah, but you're wrong.
> 
> Not counting joke calcs the current accepted size for OP is comparable to Jupiter.
> 
> ...



Went back and looked at the blog. GM said 55000 km wide, Chaos said 100,000 give or take 30-50k. Why exactly? The images are broken.


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## Kuhzan (Aug 21, 2018)

So Admiral DC goes to Country+. What happens to their Dura? It says Small Continent level on the Wiki.


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## Blαck (Aug 21, 2018)

Kuhzan said:


> So Admiral DC goes to Country+. What happens to their Dura? It says Small Continent level on the Wiki.



Durability should be same as dc, with the exception of akainu maybe...maybe.


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