# Counters to Kamui?



## Rob (Aug 30, 2013)

... :sanji

In almost every thread in the BD... :sanji

... :sanji

That includes Kakashi... :sanji

... :sanji

I see... :sanji

... :sanji

"Kamui gg"... :sanji

What the fuck... :sanji

Kakashi>Hashirama... Cus gg Kamui... :sanji

On a serious note, what are counters for Kamui? Speed? Genjutsu of some sort?
Why is that Kakashi gg Kamui's people of Kage-level...

*Note: *Not sure if this was supposed to be in the BD, seeing as I didn't really match anyone up, but am rather just asking a question pertaining to an ability.


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## Misaki Yata (Aug 30, 2013)

Minato blitz sharingan eye sight by walking.


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## Rob (Aug 30, 2013)

No troll replies!  
I really am curious...


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## Legendary Itachi (Aug 30, 2013)

Activate Jutsu that blocks LOS before Kamui'ed.

Using Kage Bunshin, or other types of clone jutsu.

High-speed Shunshin or S/T Jutsu. I expect high pure speed may work.

If you can sense the chakra building, it can counter well.

I'm sure Kage level Ninja should at least have 1 method to protect himself before Kamui GG lol, the Kamui wank is terrible. Well, I'd blame Kishi for losing consistency for Kakashi's stamina that favors him the Kamui spam......


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## Deadking (Aug 30, 2013)

Be faster then the user


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## egressmadara (Aug 30, 2013)

You literally only need an object to blindside kakashi's view of you, like a tree or something, and you'd be able to get away.

Reactions: Kage 1


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## Santoryu (Aug 30, 2013)

The main counter to Kamui is: 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Kamui!


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## Deadking (Aug 30, 2013)

The main counter To Kuma ??? Tobirama


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 30, 2013)

Having another S/T jutsu and a faster reaction time than the Kamui user is the only real counter to it.

Having faster movement speed is just a way to avoid it. Although as we've seen Obito is fast enough to fight Naruto, Gai, and Kakashi at the same time so good luck outspeeding his kamui. As for Kakashi's his was fast enough to warp one of Sauce's arrows.

But thats pretty much it. You either dodge before it hits, or you have another S/T jutsu to warp away before you are.


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## Jagger (Aug 30, 2013)

Another effective S/T technique is a great counter to it as we saw in Minato vs Obito fight. Despite Obito's Kamui was more versatile and allowed him for more mobility, Minato's FTG is faster and more experienced with it. 

Clones are another great counter to Kamui. To both versions, actually. Obito nor Kakashi can difference a real person from a clone (only Madara is capable of such feat), so they won't know what they're absorbing. Kakashi can't spam his Kamui (okay, maybe he can, but not at Obito's extent), so using it in such way can be dangerous. Using clones for Obito materialize while he tries to absorb a clone can be useful as well.

And for last, huge techniques capable of changing the landscape easily. Such as Hashirama's.


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 30, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Another effective S/T technique is a great counter to it as we saw in Minato vs Obito fight. Despite Obito's Kamui was more versatile and allowed him for more mobility, Minato's FTG is faster and more experienced with it.
> 
> Clones are another great counter to Kamui. To both versions, actually. Obito nor Kakashi can difference a real person from a clone (only Madara is capable of such feat), so they won't know what they're absorbing. Kakashi can't spam his Kamui (okay, maybe he can, but not at Obito's extent), so using it in such way can be dangerous. Using clones for Obito materialize while he tries to absorb a clone can be useful as well.
> 
> *And for last, huge techniques capable of changing the landscape easily. Such as Hashirama's.*



The clone idea is good I didn't think of that. But the bolded won't necessarily work. Because Kakashi's kamui could always be faster than the jutsu's activation and snipe the user, or Obito could always phase to avoid damage, go beneath the user, and warp them. Its all a matter of reaction, jutsu execution and jutsu activation speeds.

Another great counter is a blinding jutsu like White Rage from Kabuto or C's jutsu. It would temporarily delay the user leaving them open to attack.


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## J★J♥ (Aug 30, 2013)

Smoke bomb.


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## the_symbol_of_rebirth (Aug 30, 2013)

Speed. I also think putting a mud wall or something else in front of you would work.


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## Cord (Aug 30, 2013)

It's nigh impossible to counter Kamui once it's already activated and has begun warping its target. That's why it's regarded as one of the most broken techniques in the manga. Fellow space/time jutsus such as Minato and Tobirama's Hiraishin and Obito's own Kamui are the only ones I can think of that can effectively counter Kamui under those circumstances.

There are numerous preemptive measures however- and I think a lot of top and high tiered characters can achieve that. Blocking the caster's line of sight would be one, as well as an intelligent use of bunshin feints among others.


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## Rob (Aug 30, 2013)

What's an S/T Jutsu?...


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## Magicbullet (Aug 30, 2013)

Block or disable LOS. Use S/T ninjutsu if you have anything like that. Be faster (not likely). 
Hefty doppelganger or indirect fighting style like advanced puppet technique, legions of summons, armies of clones, teams of edo zombies etc. - anything that draws Kamui away from you and allows for oneself to fight while hidden. There are some special moves like auditory genjutsu that don't require LOS or even proximity to work.


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 30, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> What's an S/T Jutsu?...



Space/Time Jutsu.



Cordelia said:


> *S*pace/*T*ime jutsu. I think.



Yep.


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## Nep Nep (Aug 30, 2013)

You know ninja haven't tried throwing a Kunai at Kakashi's nuts yet. That would probably break his focus wouldn't it?


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## Rob (Aug 30, 2013)

I see, so Speed, and Space/Time... 

So why is it that Kakashi gg Kaumui's Kage-level fighters?

Please tell me they are just wankers


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## dungsi27 (Aug 30, 2013)

Hiraishin no jutsu
Onmyoton
Biju Naruto level 2 speed

Thats all I can think of


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 30, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> I see, so Speed, and Space/Time...
> 
> So why is it that Kakashi gg Kaumui's Kage-level fighters?
> 
> Please tell me they are just wankers



"Kage-level" is a very borad term since there are non Kage characters who nerf actual Kage. I prefer to use tiers. 

Anyway its not wank. Unless they can counter or avoid the warp, Kakashi with Kamui can oneshot any character in the series. Kamui is that hax and it doesn't matter what level you're on if you don't have whats needed to survive.

Now granted there are many characters who can avoid Kamui from Kakashi, if given the chance he can still beat them like it or not. But in a straight up fight all Top tier characters stomp him before he even gets the chance. 

Most High tiers can defeat him too and avoid the jutsu but it wouldn't be easy as Kakashi is also high tier.


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 30, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> This seems like a reasonable response.
> But not for the people in the BD.
> 
> *They will reply with Kamui is instant, GG*.



I don't go to this BD so I wouldn't know, but in a battledome scenario its quite possible for Kakashi to start off the battle by using Kamui. Especially if both characters are bloodlusted. And while the warp of Kamui isn't instant, it does instantly appear on its target. 

To escape once the warp has begun you'd need a S/T jutsu to get away as regular speed wouldn't be enough. Or, you'd need one of the aforementioned methods of avoids his snipe before he activates it. But again this all depends on which is faster. Kakashi activating and Kamui's warp speed, or his opponents reaction speed and the time it takes for them to counter with a jutsu or run. 

More often than not Kamui is faster.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Aug 30, 2013)

My only problem with LOS blockers is that they have to come out sometime. It may counter it for a good amount of time, but you can't just hide forever. Awesome speed and clones are the 2 best counters I can think of. Sage sensing would be helpful, but not absolute.


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## Gibbs (Aug 30, 2013)

A counter to Kamui would be having in the OP to the thread.

"State of Mind: In Character"


Reason: Kakashi typically uses Kamui as a last resort attack.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Aug 30, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> I see, so Speed, and Space/Time...
> 
> So why is it that Kakashi gg Kaumui's Kage-level fighters?
> 
> Please tell me they are just wankers



Clones are good, too. And quite a few Kage level fighters don't have the speed to block it in time. It is a space/time ninjutsu, after all.

And yes, the people who say "Kamui gg" are wankers. Myself included. But even I know you need more reasoning than "lel Kamui". You have to explain exactly how Kakashi can warp them away after he's fought them long enough to think he needs to use his trump card.


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## MS81 (Aug 30, 2013)

there are no counters, deal with it!!!


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## Marsala (Aug 30, 2013)

Consider this: Sasuke is pretty much fucked against Kamui. Unlike Itachi, he doesn't even use clones or much genjutsu. His only hope is to hit Kakashi with Amaterasu first.


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## Jagger (Aug 30, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> I see, so Speed, and Space/Time...
> 
> So why is it that Kakashi gg Kaumui's Kage-level fighters?
> 
> Please tell me they are just wankers


Somewhat serious and joking.

While it is true Kamui is one of the most broken techniques and that, once you're caught in the user's eye sight and already warping you, a lot of characters can't do anything against it. Of course, there are its exceptions, FTG and Obito's version of Kamui can escape them. Also, I believe shinobi with a outstanding speed like BM Naruto or A V2 might escape from it. 

I'm not really sure.


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## Rob (Aug 31, 2013)

I see.
Well, could Kakashi gg Kamui:
-Kakuzu
-Deidara
-Hidan 
-Kisame
-Sasori
-Onoki
-Jiraiya
-Tobirama
-Danzo
? 
Say, the battlefield is the bridge Danzo fought Sasuke...

If not, besides clones, what could their counter be?


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## Marsala (Aug 31, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> I see.
> Well, could Kakashi gg Kamui:
> -Kakuzu


Yes.


RobLucciRapes said:


> -Deidara


Yes.


RobLucciRapes said:


> -Hidan


Easily.


RobLucciRapes said:


> -Kisame


Yes.


RobLucciRapes said:


> -Sasori


Yes.


RobLucciRapes said:


> -Onoki


Yes.


RobLucciRapes said:


> -Jiraiya


Yes.


RobLucciRapes said:


> -Tobirama


Yes, but Tobirama could dodge it with sensing and Hiraishin if he knew about it ahead of time.


RobLucciRapes said:


> -Danzo


Izanagi should counter it. Probably.

Aside from Tobirama and Danzou, nobody has any counter but clones. And really, clones can be used to evade any attack at all. Kakashi isn't fooled by them, even when Itachi uses them.


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## Lord Valgaav (Aug 31, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> I see.
> Well, could Kakashi gg Kamui:
> -Kakuzu
> -Deidara
> ...



Out of them Onoki and Tobirama have the best chances. If Tobirama is able to leave his seal somewhere, if by any chance hes hit with Kamui and his reactions are fast enough he can simply warp away to safety from getting sucked in.

Onoki has flight so he only needs to fly high enough to where Kakashi can't accurately hit him.

The others are screwed.


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## Deadking (Aug 31, 2013)

Tobirama solo's Kaumi


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## Cord (Aug 31, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> I see.
> Well, could Kakashi gg Kamui:
> -Kakuzu
> -Deidara
> ...



I doubt that an in-character Kakashi would use his Kamui off the bat against any opponent unless the whole world depends on it (like in this war, for example). Even though he might have a decent chance of beating the characters listed above, it wouldn't be as simple as "Kamui GG" if he were to fight each one of them in the manga. 

But I guess it would still depend on what mindset and knowledge you're going to grant Kakashi.


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## Ninian (Aug 31, 2013)

It solely depends on the circumstance: Kamui is a technique operating on sight; block it or deceive it and it is countered?though obviously these are not the only ways of forbid it.​


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Aug 31, 2013)

And IC, Kakashi won't use Kamui unless he feels his life depends on it. That could take long enough for the opponent to beat him. But what's really bad about it is Kamui in conjunction with the Raiton Kage Bunshin. With that, the number of people who can beat Kakashi goes down considerably.


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## Coldhands (Aug 31, 2013)

Counter for Kakashi's Kamui? Any Bunshin jutsu, speed, space/time, anything that can block his vision... It really isn't that hard to counter.

Countering Obito's Kamui is million times harder, Kakashi's Kamui is the simplest but Kakashi needs a partner with that. I guess other than that Hiraishin is pretty much the only counter to Obito's Kamui. There's a reason Kishi restricted Kamui for Juubito, it's just waaaay too haxx.


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## Rob (Aug 31, 2013)

So, if Kakashi is able to lolJamui Kakuzu and Hidan...
Why didn't he do it back then?


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## Kai (Aug 31, 2013)

Izanagi should also be able to counter Kamui.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Aug 31, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> So, if Kakashi is able to lolJamui Kakuzu and Hidan...
> Why didn't he do it back then?



Because, during that time, Kakashi still sucked with it. It took too much chakra, and the odds of him hitting his target with it were minimal. Now, after the war arc, he has shown the accuracy and speed to be able to warp away very fast entities, I.e. KCM Naruto. It also became somewhat spammable  for Kakashi, as he can use 6 Kamui's and even more Raiton techniques before tiring.


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## Rob (Aug 31, 2013)

Wow... That seems very OP... 

How the fuck does one go from being almost completely done after 1 Kamui, to 6+ Kamuis 

Also, question... 

Say Nagato and Kakashi were to fight... Is there any way in hell that Kamui can be... Shinra Tensei'd? 

Like... Blow away the suction hole or whatever?...


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Aug 31, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Wow... That seems very OP...
> 
> How the fuck does one go from being almost completely done after 1 Kamui, to 6+ Kamuis
> 
> ...



I dunno about that, but Preta's jutsu-absorbing techniques should be enough to keep Nagato from getting warped away. In fact, Nagato stomps Kakashi.


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## LostSelf (Aug 31, 2013)

Sensing it beforehand and having an instantaneous jutsu such as Shinra Tensei. Or Preta Path. Aside from the other examples provided above.


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## 2Broken (Aug 31, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> So why is it that Kakashi gg Kaumui's Kage-level fighters?
> 
> Please tell me they are just wankers



Okay I am going to try to cover the history of Kamui an its how it got to be this broken so you can hate it as much as I do. 

Let's start from the beginning shall we

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

^There are ten links that first described kamui. You can tell right away it was a broken tech, but with its drawbacks no one complained too much. Aiming it wasn't easy, it was small, seemed to be resistible to a degree and with only three attempts (one wasn't even a full kamui) he was paralyzed and even under the care of the best medic in the world was bedridden for a week. Seeing as this is the same man who took a stabbing for three days straight and was still standing we can imagine how much strain a single kamui puts on the body. 

Now the first time it was thought to be extremely broken was during his fight with Deva.

1

2

3

^This three panels indicate a few things. 1 is that Kakashi can warp a whole body if he has enough chakra. 2 Kakashi can kamui much more precisely since he could kamui a moving missile and a nail accelerated by shinra tensei. 3 an most importantly he can warp things fast as  Deva Path (the rinnegan wielding super zombie) didn't even see him warp the nail.

Now there were all kinds of arguments on him using kamui as well as he did in those panels in combat and if he can really warp a whole body and whether or not he could insta-warp a moving target that doesn't have a predictable trajectory (like the nail or rocket) and many other arguments on small details of the tech. So after those panels it was generally thought that kamui is probably super broken, but it wasn't quite proven.

Then we arrive at the holy grail of feats that make it undeniable that kamui is stupid broken and should be hated by all.

1

2

3

4

^And there it is Kakashi (using his own chakra) warped a Naruto sized clone holding a rasengan so fast that not only was it much faster than the kamui ejected stake, it was too fast for Obito to even notice. All this happened even though kamui is originally Obitio's tech, he knew what they were planning and is top tier in speed and reflexes.

With that feat anyone who doesn't have a S/T ninjutsu + top tier reflexes that got put in a match with Kakashi, who for whatever reason was willing to use kamui at the start of the match was screwed. I think there was an argument for a while on reverse summoning getting past it, but then you have to consider that Kakashi could just warp the head away.

IC Kakashi will still lose a lot of battles as setups and killing Kakashi are both very good counters against kamui if it isn't used first.


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## Rob (Aug 31, 2013)

I'm a bit confused on what exactly happened with Obito and Naruto there... 

I get that he warped Naruto... but... ... ? 

So, he warped Naruto, and his Rasengan with Kamui... into another dimension... (?) And warped him back?...


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## Axiom (Aug 31, 2013)

Earlier in the fight, Kakashi Kamui'd Nardo's Rasengan, Nardo went to punch Obito in the face, Obito Kamui'd to the other dimension, and the Rasengan that Kakashi Kamui'd hit Obito in the shoulder.

This time, Kakashi Kamui'd the Rasengan.  Obito anticipated this maneuver and so he tried to shoot some stakes out of the kamui dimension to avoid the Rasengan.  He thought he hit Nardo and popped the KB, but what actually happened was Kakashi Kamui'd the Nardo KB.  Afterwards, Nardo launched a Bijuudama at Obito, forcing Obito to warp into the Kamui dimension, where the Nardo KB which Kakashi Kamui'd was waiting for him.

So Kakashi kamui'd a Naruto KB faster than a stake ejected from Obito's eye could hit said Nardo KB at a very close range.

Said Naruto KB was never brought back to the regular dimension.  Presumably, it just popped.

----------------------​
The best counter to Kamui is killing Kakashi before he uses it.  It can otherwise be countered by good usage of clones or top tier speed, but it's still very dangerous.  If you don't have knowledge of Kamui, it's that much more dangerous.


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## Zooted (Aug 31, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> I'm a bit confused on what exactly happened with Obito and Naruto there...
> 
> I get that he warped Naruto... but... ... ?
> 
> So, he warped Naruto, and his Rasengan with Kamui... into another dimension... (?) And warped him back?...



Kakashi's and Obito's eye share the same dimension since they were originally from 1 person.


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## zimmawannatuba (Aug 31, 2013)

Hopefully Kakashi goes blind, so we can get rid of this terrible ability.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 31, 2013)

The problem is Kakashi's speed with kamui fooled someone who knew the technique inside out, that speaks for itself. Anything anyone else does that isn't instantaneous, is pretty much screwed.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 31, 2013)

Blocking LOS, Shinra Tensei, Preta Path and Kamui... Possibly natural energy depending on how it is used.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 31, 2013)

Cordelia said:


> It's nigh impossible to counter Kamui once it's already activated and has begun warping its target. That's why it's regarded as one of the most broken techniques in the manga. Fellow space/time jutsus such as Minato and Tobirama's Hiraishin and Obito's own Kamui are the only ones I can think of that can effectively counter Kamui under those circumstances.
> 
> There are numerous preemptive measures however- and I think a lot of top and high tiered characters can achieve that. Blocking the caster's line of sight would be one, as well as an intelligent use of bunshin feints among others.



Cordelia's got it.

Kamui or sometimes hiraishin counters Kamui.  Kakashi's last use of kamui had him warp stuff out from in front of his face without him being able to tell though.

There's also blocking LOS with hidden mist and such, but in the BD, when Kakashi starts with LOS and enough knowledge to know he needs kamui, he will just instantly activate it, and it will hit first before the opponent finishes setting up their defences.


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## zimmawannatuba (Aug 31, 2013)

Ryuzaki said:


> The problem is Kakashi's speed with kamui fooled someone who knew the technique inside out, that speaks for itself. Anything anyone else does that isn't instantaneous, is pretty much screwed.



That is terrible logic. 
That is like saying someone who uses Kage bunshin, should never fall for a clone feint.


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## Dr. Leonard Church (Sep 1, 2013)

Kamui gg


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## Turrin (Sep 1, 2013)

The MS Jutsu one-shots is a fallacy that is perpetuated by the belief that such techniques are instant. In reality to use a MS tech an Uchiha has to first gather chakra to their eyes and than focus on a specific spot with the intent to use that specific Dojutsu technique. During this time there are a myriad of ways for a shinobi to interrupt or prevent the jutsu from landing on them. In Kakashi's case this is an even bigger problem because his Kamui usage is limited and his body becomes strained after using the technique leaving openings for his opponents to exploit. These are the weaknesses of MS, that people tend to ignore when saying X MS tech GGs the opponent.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 1, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Wow... That seems very OP...
> 
> How the fuck does one go from being almost completely done after 1 Kamui, to 6+ Kamuis
> 
> ...



The only debatable aspect is if the barrier used to construct kamui can be preta absorbed.  

It's a technical argument that can be made from the databook explanation of kamui, but it practice it'd be like saying Minato can't hiraishin away from Preta absorption, and it just feels inherently dumb to people. 

Even if it were true, Nagato would have to be actively sucking the area, and Kakashi can just form the warp barrier outside the relatively small sucking zone and good game him anyway.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 1, 2013)

Turrin said:


> The MS Jutsu one-shots is a fallacy that is perpetuated by the belief that such techniques are instant. In reality to use a MS tech an Uchiha has to first gather chakra to their eyes and than focus on a specific spot with the intent to use that specific Dojutsu technique. During this time there are a myriad of ways for a shinobi to interrupt or prevent the jutsu from landing on them. In Kakashi's case this is an even bigger problem because his Kamui usage is limited and his body becomes strained after using the technique leaving openings for his opponents to exploit. These are the weaknesses of MS, that people tend to ignore when saying X MS tech GGs the opponent.



I disagree.

My perception of Kamui is based on feats, not the MS myth.

Kakashi can go from no MS to warping away an in motion Susano arrow larger than a person before it can cross a few feet, and that is now one of his lesser feats.

None of the other MS jutsu have a feat like that that I paid attention to.  If you recall, Kamui was held in rather low regard when it was first used, because of the amount of time an concentration it took Kakashi to hit Deidara.  So back then, any decent ninja could run around and defeat the technique.  That's why Kamui GG only became a recent and acceptable argument for Kakashi's victory, even though he's had the accursed jutsu since the Gaara arc or Part II.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 1, 2013)

Cordelia said:


> I doubt that an in-character Kakashi would use his Kamui off the bat against any opponent unless the whole world depends on it (like in this war, for example). Even though he might have a decent chance of beating the characters listed above, it wouldn't be as simple as "Kamui GG" if he were to fight each one of them in the manga.
> 
> But I guess it would still depend on what mindset and knowledge you're going to grant Kakashi.



What makes it hard is that Kakashi was going to Kamui Kakuzu when the fight started going south, and that he planned to kamui Deva and or Asura until backup showed up, allowing him to conserve his chakra for later fights.  So if Kakashi goes up against someone strong alone, or starts to lose, or he thinks it will be too costly or risky to fight normally, he'll kamui them.  

Now if the person is really strong, he'll instantly do it.  When Tobi who he thought was Madara showed up, he told everyone he was going to just remove him.  Now, who does Kakashi think is super dangerous?  Pretty much any kage or kage level opponent.  We even have scans of him respecting the Raikage and stuff.


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## Turrin (Sep 1, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I disagree.
> 
> My perception of Kamui is based on feats, not the MS myth.
> 
> ...


The thing is the shift from Three Tome to MS is very quick. What matters is the gathering of chakra to the eye, which Kakashi could have and probably was doing before he even activated MS. 

Also Kishi seems to distinguish defensive Kamui as faster than offensive Kamui. As whenever Kakashi is Kamuiing an object coming towards him it seems to be gone in a split instance, but whenever Kamui is used to warp anything else it has the barrier distortion effect and seems to take longer to warp. Maybe it's the fact that Kakashi doesn't need to create the barrier when an attack is aimed at him, since he can just suck it into box world once it gets into a certain range of his body, but otherwise he has to form the barrier space to do so.


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## Cord (Sep 1, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> What makes it hard is that Kakashi was going to Kamui Kakuzu when the fight started going south, and that he planned to kamui Deva and or Asura until backup showed up, allowing him to conserve his chakra for later fights.  So if Kakashi goes up against someone strong alone, or starts to lose, or he thinks it will be too costly or risky to fight normally, he'll kamui them.
> 
> Now if the person is really strong, he'll instantly do it.  When Tobi who he thought was Madara showed up, he told everyone he was going to just remove him.  Now, who does Kakashi think is super dangerous?  Pretty much any kage or kage level opponent.  We even have scans of him respecting the Raikage and stuff.



Kakashi never used it against any opponent right from the very start unless he thinks that not using it means giving up Naruto to the enemies or the end of the world. Nothing has ever warranted him to whip it out immediately besides those reasons.

He never pulled it out against Kakuzu until they were in the brink of getting obliterated by the opponent's elemental attack- where he was already fatigued and battered. Keep in mind that it was just the attack that he was implicated to warp and not Kakuzu per se. Even in the face of a notorious person whom you knew just attacked your village and killed numerous of your comrades- still never prompted Kakashi to instantly warp Pein away. Heck, he never even atttempted to use it offensively in that battle. 

And all of those debunk the idea of Kakashi instantly pulling out his Kamui card against any opponent just because he deems them to be dangerous.

It's so broken that the author has to hold it back somehow. There was *never* a simple argument of _Kamui GG_ if we consider Kakashi's portrayal in the manga and all of his fights were testament to that.


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## RedChidori (Sep 1, 2013)

I don't know if this sounds logically accurate or not but let's try it out.

Say for instance Kakashi attempts to use Kamui on Zabuza. 
Let's assume Zabuza uses the mist technique fast enough to obstruct Kakashi's vision, giving him enough time to retreat before Kamui even pops up. Is that a good counter or not?


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Sep 1, 2013)

RedChidori said:


> I don't know if this sounds logically accurate or not but let's try it out.
> 
> Say for instance Kakashi attempts to use Kamui on Zabuza.
> Let's assume Zabuza uses the mist technique fast enough to obstruct Kakashi's vision, giving him enough time to retreat before Kamui even pops up. Is that a good counter or not?



If it's in mid warp Zabuza can't do anything about it. And like said before LOS blockers won't work forever, but they will at least give time to retreat.


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## Blu-ray (Sep 1, 2013)

Blocking line of sight, not that this will work if the warping already begun, using Hiraishin to warp before it warps you, being fast enough to shunshin away, breaking Kakashi's focus, as he needs to maintain through the entire jutsu.


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## zimmawannatuba (Sep 1, 2013)

If you start the fight with clones, then Kamui is completely worthless.


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