# Sabo vs. an Admiral



## trance (May 7, 2014)

Ok, so I've seen many talk about Sabo's strength with radically varying opinions. Some say he's still weaker than Doflamingo while some say he's as strong as an Admiral. Well, let's see if we can get a general consensus among the logical debaters of the OL.

Scenario 1: Fujitora

Scenario 2: Kizaru

Scenario 3: Aokiji

Scenario 4: Akainu

Please. No one word answers. At the bare minimum, give a brief explanation as to what you think the outcome of each match will be but I would appreciate some detailed answers.

I'm expecting a lot from some of the OL's seasoned debaters.


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## Katou (May 7, 2014)

It's safe to assume that Sabo is stronger than Burgess. . 

but since he wasn't able to fodderize him . . he probably wouldn't be a match to an Admiral 

He. . . Will die against all Scenarios


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## trance (May 7, 2014)

That was _pre_-Mera Mera Sabo against Burgess and from what I can interpret, Sabo was at least equal to Burgess but was more than likely superior to him. I know this is mostly speculation since Sabo is pretty limited on feats and while he obviously became stronger with the Mera Mera, we don't have a quantifiable amount. I'm simply appealing to reason and logic here.


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## November (May 7, 2014)

He dies in all scenarios


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## zoro (May 7, 2014)

Sabo is probably on a level where he can fight an admiral for an extended period of time before going down. I believe his hype+feats are enough to view him as roughly what Ace would have been with two more years worth of training, which should place him anywhere between Jozu and Marco 

Basically, I think he'd get high diffed by the admirals. (Maybe borderline extreme for Fuji if he ends up being weaker than the C3, but that's a huge maybe)


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## Tapion (May 7, 2014)

The admirals rape him, not to mention he is probably not as skilled with the DF as ace was...unless a fruit is like swapping in a sharingan and getting full mastery of the techs...


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## Canute87 (May 7, 2014)

Wallachia said:


> It's safe to assume that Sabo is stronger than Burgess. .
> 
> but since he wasn't able to fodderize him . . he probably wouldn't be a match to an Admiral
> 
> He. . . Will die against all Scenarios



Sabo was playing around with the man.


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## Katou (May 7, 2014)

Starraver said:


> The admirals rape him, not to mention he is probably not as skilled with the DF as ace was...unless a fruit is like swapping in a sharingan and getting full mastery of the techs...



He already said that he still isn't use to it 
although he casted "Hiken" without any problem  



Canute87 said:


> Sabo was playing around with the man.



There wasn't any sign of him taking it easy on him though 

and there was also no sign of Burgess being serious too . .


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## Ghost (May 7, 2014)

Scenario 1:

Fuji extreme diff

Scenario 2:

Kizaru mid diff

Scenario 3:

Aokiji high diff

Scenario 4:

Akainu mid diff

I don't consider Kizaru being stronger than Aokiji but his fighting style is better against Sabo.


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## MarcoThePhoenix (May 7, 2014)

Fujitora wins with high difficulty.

Coloured trio each win at upper medium difficulty.


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## Daisuke Jigen (May 7, 2014)

Until he shows me feats that show he's actually that strong (he hasn't even mastered his DF yet), I'm putting Sabo below even Marco, so at best he'll push an Admiral mid diff.


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## Gilgamesh (May 7, 2014)

Sabo is as overrated as Mihawk


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## TheWiggian (May 7, 2014)

any admiral beats him around mid diff


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## Magentabeard (May 7, 2014)

He stands a chance against none except Fujitora where it could go either way extreme diff


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## Rocktomato (May 7, 2014)

Guys stop assuming Fuji is weaker because he's not a logia 

All of them win with varying degrees of high difficulty or, for Kizaru Akainu and Fuji who won't have any elemental problems, perhaps even upper mid. Sabo won't even fight combatant fodders, etc, even with his Mera Mera because there are large numbers of them and some are named. He couldn't even trump Burgess, only shatter his armor - and considering Luffy was shattering armor at that level in the East Blue that's not really a feat.

He's also an unpleasant guy, snatching Rebecca's devil fruit and not asking the WB pirates what they wanted done with it after he refused to visit Marineford and they lost arms and men there. Finally, he yells at Bartolomeo for complimenting Robin and seems to be friends with Hack, who is a wanker and angry at Bart for stopping his attempt to sucker-punch him. But that's neither here nor there.


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## Canute87 (May 7, 2014)

Wallachia said:


> There wasn't any sign of him taking it easy on him though
> 
> and there was also no sign of Burgess being serious too . .



After the first initial attack that broke burgess weapon/armour with no problem he started jumping all over the place using burgess to destroy the stadium.

The minute after he decided to cut the bullshit we saw his real power.

You can't expect that attacks like Ice block partisan from Kiji is not something Burgess couldn't handle as well as Kizaru and Akainu's lower end attacks whatever they are.


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## Extravlad (May 7, 2014)

Akainu low diff Sabo.

He has the DF advantage, mera mera is shit against magu magu.


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## Orca (May 7, 2014)

Sabo vs Fujitora: Could go either way.

I believe Fujitora is slightly weaker than the original admirals. He is a replacement. I don't expect the replacement to be as good as the original admirals who had withstood the golden age of pirates. Plus I feel like that Akainu as the fleet admiral and main villain has to be set apart from his subordinates. Having said that, even if Fujitora is slightly weaker, you still have to be extremely powerful to be on par with him and I think Sabo is exactly that. Sabo is how strong ace would have been after two years. Combined with the fact that he's second in command of revolutionaries, this gives him huge hype. Enough to put him on par with Fujitora.

Sabo vs Kizaru : Kizaru very High diff or High diff.

Sabo vs Akainu: Akainu High diff or a very strong mid diff.


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## Extravlad (May 7, 2014)

> Sabo vs Akainu: Akainu High diff or a very strong mid diff.


Dat Sabo overestimation is unreal.

Akainu has the DF advantage AND he is way stronger.

Akainu low difficulty..


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## tanman (May 7, 2014)

Each of the admirals beat him.
But he can probably hold his own against Fujitora and perhaps Kizaru.



Rocktomato said:


> Guys stop assuming Fuji is weaker because he's not a logia



I assume he's weaker because he has less feats.


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## Orca (May 7, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Dat Sabo overestimation is unreal.
> 
> Akainu has the DF advantage AND he is way stronger.
> 
> Akainu low difficulty..



The Mera mera is indeed a powerup that is useless against akainu, but Sabo is strong enough without it to put up a fight against Akainu. This is not Ace that we're talking about.


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## Extravlad (May 7, 2014)

Sabo is low top tier, he can give mid diff to Kuzan/Borsalino but woul get low diff by Akainu because of the DF advantage.


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## Beckman (May 7, 2014)

Rocktomato said:


> Guys stop assuming Fuji is weaker because he's not a logia



It's more that he have to prove himself before he can be considered equal to the colour trio. Playing around with Law ain't enough.


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## Tapion (May 7, 2014)

but sabo is now god tier for being 1st commander? and....assuming his DF powers aren't as polished as ace's all he really has is his haki techs.

everything fuji has done thus far has be casual...its safe to say he isn't by any means weaker than the original admirals.


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## Orca (May 7, 2014)

And fujitora is God tier?


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## Tapion (May 7, 2014)

Luffee said:


> And fujitora is God tier?



Unless the The adimirals are god tiers, I nether wrote nor implied such a thing


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## Orca (May 7, 2014)

> nor implied such a thing







> but sabo is now god tier for being 1st commander



I wonder why someone would say that


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## Tapion (May 7, 2014)

Luffee said:


> I wonder why someone would say that



He's being over hyped, that's what I meant.

On the other hand fuji is outright fucking around...eating ramen and hurling meteors, even this chapter he's just standing around gravity crushing people...

disregarding the tier ranks which people in this section are fond of using. 

Sabo needs to get in to actually hurt fuji because his flames are useless due to inexperience(which he admits to, and only knows hiken until he is shown other techs) and there's the possibility that fuji should be able to affect his flames with his gravity fruit decreasing the gravity and such, like he did when lifting the ship. flames are out of the question. 

he'll need to go into CqC for some serious damage with the dragon claw, this means Fuji can gravicrush him like he did zoro assuming Sabo lacks zoro's physical presence he will be hindered(which is more than likely) or atleast slowed movement.

(but he bust a ring, surely he's "physically" stronger than zoro) 

looking back his haki tech seems to deal with technique than raw power. 

Fuji CoO should deal with any tricks given hes blind I wouldn't be surprised if he's very proficient in this area of haki. 

Fuji also has the option of floating around and spamming meteors.


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## Gervin (May 7, 2014)

Why are people putting Fuji at a lower level compared to the colored trio due to lack of feats, yet Sabo HAS to be at least top tier solely because of his position (because his feats sure as hell don't put him in the top tier category).  Fujitora is an Admiral, until shown otherwise we should assume that he's around the same level as the logia trio.

I would like to think that all 4 Admirals can beat Sabo, but I honestly have no idea how strong Sabo is.  Let's see how he handles a bunch of fodder Dressrosa bounty hunters to get a handle on his awesome sure to be top tier powers.


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## Louis-954 (May 7, 2014)

Sabo was making sport of Burgess and Diamante's attacks even before he ate the Mera Mera no Mi. Now that he has a Logia power  no admiral is low-diffing Sabo, not even Akainu. Give Sabo a few months/year to actually master the Mera Mera no Mi and he'll be on their level, definitely.


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## Tapion (May 7, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> Sabo was making sport of Burgess and Diamante's attacks even before he ate the Mera Mera no Mi. Now that he has a Logia power  no admiral is low-diffing Sabo, not even Akainu. Give Sabo a few months/year to actually master the Mera Mera no Mi and he'll be on their level, definitely.



Sabo fooling around burgess and diamante means nothing if both characters aren't near the level of admiral, its also more than likely that they're both weaker than dolfa which kuzan made his bitch and fuji had sweating.

His Logia power does not grant him any advantage that Akainu, Kizaru and Fuji cannot deal with, and considering kuzan stalemated the mera mera no mi's superior for 10 days its not gonna be the deciding factor against kuzan ether. 

the only thing his new found logia power granted him at this time is intang which anyone of admiral level should be able to deal with.  

A bloodlusted Akainu "should" be able to low dif him in his current state state. Assuming the gap is the same as Akainu to whitebeard.   

He'l definitely catch them out though, just not at this point in time.


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## Extravlad (May 7, 2014)

Akainu can mid diff Sabo without a single doubt, the Mera Mera is useless against Akainu, hell i'm pretty sure Akainu would have a harder time against a DFless Sabo.


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## Louis-954 (May 7, 2014)

> Sabo fooling around burgess and diamante means nothing if both characters aren't near the level of admiral, its also more than likely that they're both weaker than dolfa which kuzan made his bitch and fuji had sweating.


If you aren't at least close to admiral level you aren't going to be able to fool around with Burgess and Diamante. Name even a single VA sans Garp that can make sport of them like that and i'll concede.



> His Logia power does not grant him any advantage that Akainu, Kizaru and Fuji cannot deal with, and considering kuzan stalemated the mera mera no mi's superior for 10 days its not gonna be the deciding factor against kuzan ether.
> 
> the only thing his new found logia power granted him at this time is intang which anyone of admiral level should be able to deal with.


Did you really just say that the Mera Mera no Mi isn't a powerup for Sabo? Guess you forgot how Ace melted Aokiji's ice at Marineford.



> Akainu can mid diff Sabo without a single doubt, the Mera Mera is useless against Akainu, hell i'm pretty sure Akainu would have a harder time against a DFless Sabo


Yeah that makes sense... he's going to have a harder time against a weaker version of Sabo.


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## Tapion (May 7, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> If you aren't at least close to admiral level you aren't going to be able to fool around with Burgess and Diamante. Name even a single VA sans Garp that can make sport of them like that and i'll concede.



VA title ain't worth shit (sans smoker) in the first place and are just hype tools, they're irrelevant as of now. 

so I've re-read the previous chapters just to make sure

All sabo did was dodge around the ring on the fishes and Diamante tried catch him, matched Burgess' Elbow tech, broke his armor but failed to damage him and Destroyed the ring which caught all combatants off guard....

this proves he can tango with burgess and those of similar stature in a physical confrontation...not that hes superior to dolfa and everyone else on the island, as most seem to believe.

 I am under the impression that burgess could have busted the ring aswell if that came to mind..but considering he actually wants to fight, it would be contradictory. 




Louis-954 said:


> Did you really just say that the Mera Mera no Mi isn't a powerup for Sabo? Guess you forgot how Ace melted Aokiji's ice at Marineford.



It is, just not one that would push him all the way to admiral level after eating it...its a devil fruit not a sharingan transplant, he admitted that it would take some time getting used to. It is a powerup, just not one that would be relevant when facing an admirals like akainu, kizaru and in his current state of inexperience Fujitora.

Ace also has a mastery over his DF, I don't expect a fresh sabo to do well against Kuzan in a DF battle as ace did. If he has ace's mastery over the fruit for whatever asspullish reason then sure he can contend, but as of right now hell to the no.


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## trance (May 8, 2014)




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## Orca (May 8, 2014)

Starraver said:
			
		

> On the other hand fuji is outright fucking around...eating ramen and hurling meteors, even this chapter he's just standing around gravity crushing people...





			
				Starraver said:
			
		

> Sabo fooling around burgess and diamante means nothing if both characters aren't near the level of admiral, its also more than likely that they're both weaker than dolfa which kuzan made his bitch and fuji had sweating.



So when Sabo does something casually it doesn't mean anything because burgess and diamant? are weak. But when it comes to Fujitora, you consider it worth mentioning that Fujitora was gravity crushing a bunch of fodder marines in this chapter?



> All sabo did was dodge around the ring on the fishes and Diamante tried catch him, matched Burgess' Elbow tech, broke his armor but failed to damage him and Destroyed the ring which caught all combatants off guard....



Let me analyse Fujotora's feats In a similar way: All fujitora did was bring down a couple of meteors, which didn't do anything to anyone. Law easily dealt with them twice and Doflamingo too. Zoro was able deal to with his gravity and and hold his own against him.


What you're doing is basically you're taking anything Sabo has done and trying to undermine it as much as you can. On the other hand, When it comes to Fujitora, you're trying to glorify simple details such as eating ramen etc... Why use double standards?



> looking back his haki tech seems to deal with technique than raw power.



You think Zoro is physically stronger than Sabo? If yes, then why? Just want to see your reasoning for this.


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## Extravlad (May 8, 2014)

> Yeah that makes sense... he's going to have a harder time against a weaker version of Sabo.


Of course because the Mera Mera give an advantage to AKAINU.


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## Louis-954 (May 8, 2014)

Starraver said:


> VA title ain't worth shit (sans smoker) in the first place and are just hype tools, they're irrelevant as of now.
> 
> so I've re-read the previous chapters just to make sure
> 
> ...


Smoker isn't that strong lol, Vergo sonned him.

You may want to go reread those chapters again because I don't think you comprehended them the right way. Sabo *casually* broke Diamante's sword and *casually* "matched" (in your mind) Burgess's elbow attack. Keyword, *casually.* 

Sabo shattered Burgess's armor. Had it been a stalemate like you assert then Sabo's hand would have ended up mangled.

I never said that Sabo was Admiral level, only that an Admiral can't *fodderize* him like you and others seem to believe.


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## Extravlad (May 8, 2014)

Sabo is somewhere around Vista/Jozu lvl.
He is low top tier.
Kizaru and Aokiji would mid diff Sabo, Marco or Old Rayleigh would high diff him.


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## Patrick (May 8, 2014)

Sabo seems to be really strong. He won't be able to beat an Admiral as it stands now, but he will be able to give one a good fight.


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## Katou (May 8, 2014)

Sabo is not Mid diffing anyone here. . 

not even Fuji .even though he's Featless .  .but he should be able to School a Semi-Ace Levelled Jozu


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## Mihawk (May 8, 2014)

He _might_ be able to give the C3 a high difficulty fight
And that is a big might

I don't think he's as strong as Fujitora though, but he still should be the 2nd strongest person on the island


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## Katou (May 8, 2014)

Doflαmingo said:


> but he still should be the 2nd strongest person on the island



No. . it should be Either Doffy or Fuji 

never mind   . .it's definitely Doffy ( Arguably Luffy ) [sp] if he can flex [/sp]


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## Tapion (May 8, 2014)

Luffee said:


> So when Sabo does something casually it doesn't mean anything because burgess and diamant? are weak. But when it comes to Fujitora, you consider it worth mentioning that Fujitora was gravity crushing a bunch of fodder marines in this chapter?



to show that even now fuji is being very casual through out the arc, that is all there is to it.

against law and dolfa he said he was "testing" his skills, some time later He was having lunch floating a ship and dropping meteors..and now he's just kicking back...he's being very casual at the moment.




Luffee said:


> What you're doing is basically you're taking anything Sabo has done and trying to undermine it as much as you can. On the other hand, When it comes to Fujitora, you're trying to glorify simple details such as eating ramen etc... Why use double standards?



No, I'm giving him credit where its due...what you are doing is overplaying his feats and down playing fuji. 

sabo isn't blitzing fuji  and fuji can keep up with him with CoO...his flames won't work due to fuji gravity control, he brought down a meteor and then stop it in an instant, so offsetting flames shoudln't be a problem since he can drag things from way out of the atmosphere. He is going to catch sabo off guard with his fruit and hinder is movements at least. or he can float around and hurl meteors.

no one has address these points...just going around arguing that A is messing around with B so he's Equal to C.



Luffee said:


> You think Zoro is physically stronger than Sabo? If yes, then why? Just want to see your reasoning for this.



How he's portrayed through out the entirety of the manga seen in his training sessions lifting giant weights, chucking giant pillars, taking all of luffy's damage ...sabo could be as strong yeah, but his techniques do not deal with strength so there's no proof other than hype he goes by, and here feats -> hype.





Sabo's dragon claw is a prime example *"the ring has a core"* I take it as the ring has a weak spot...its probably the same way he messed up Burgess' armor. adding that he did no physical action whatever and just placed his hand on the ring, its safe to assume his attacks uses "technique" rather than Brute strength...the evidence is there support this.

the only thing that dictates Sabo should be strong as zoro is because he's the 1st commander...




Louis-954 said:


> Smoker isn't that strong lol, Vergo sonned him.



Vergo is worth something then 



Louis-954 said:


> You may want to go reread those chapters again because I don't think you comprehended them the right way. Sabo *casually* broke Diamante's sword and *casually* "matched" (in your mind) Burgess's elbow attack. Keyword, *casually.*



Unless Diamante's sword has Hype like mihawks or is stated durable that isn't saying much...as far as we know its a generic sword. zoro could break his sword, sanji, luffy even brato with his barrier in a casual manner....

this alone doesn't put him near an admiral as some claim, and that is my problem.



Louis-954 said:


> Sabo shattered Burgess's armor. Had it been a stalemate like you assert then Sabo's hand would have ended up mangled.



Sabo tech involves attacking the weak spot/core from what I can infer..In one of my replies above, I explain this..Burgress hand wasn't busted ether.his armor was shattered and he looked vexed by it.



Louis-954 said:


> I never said that Sabo was Admiral level, only that an Admiral can't *fodderize* him like you and others seem to believe.



In his current state all he really has is his dragon techs, I've stated why I think the mera mera won't be of much help...Akainu should make short work of him in his current state, "assuming" sabo doesn't have full mastery over his fruit. 

They won't be able to fodderize him when he gets the fruit down, but as of now all he really has is Dragon, Talon and Breath. every admiral should be able to deal with his flame in his current state...even kuzan who stalemated a stronger version of his fruit and a more experienced fighter with higher mastery of his DF(akainu).

current sabo gets mid diffed by fuji(for not being serious pulling something from space says a lot about his fruit range though), low diffed by Kizaru, low diffed by akainu and mid diff by kuzan.


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## Mihawk (May 8, 2014)

Wallachia said:


> No. . it should be Either Doffy or Fuji



then who's no. 1?...


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## Orca (May 8, 2014)

> against law and dolfa he said he was "testing" his skills, some time later He was having lunch floating a ship and dropping meteors..and now he's just kicking back...he's being very casual at the moment.



But my point is how does Fujitora being casual matters in this case when Sabo himself had been casual. He ended the fight when he wanted to and diamant? and burgess couldn't do anything about it. Why are you undermining the fact that Sabo was toying with his opponents?



> How he's portrayed through out the entirety of the manga seen in his training sessions lifting giant weights, chucking giant pillars, taking all of luffy's damage ...sabo could be as strong yeah, but his techniques do not deal with strength so there's no proof other than hype he goes by, and here feats -> hype.



Using this logic you'd agree that Zoro is physically stronger than Fujitora as well right?



> sabo isn't blitzing fuji and fuji can keep up with him with CoO...his flames won't work due to fuji gravity control, he brought down a meteor and then stop it in an instant, so offsetting flames shoudln't be a problem since he can drag things from way out of the atmosphere. He is going to catch sabo off guard with his fruit and hinder is movements at least. or he can float around and hurl meteors.



So you'd agree that Fujitora can do all of these things to Kizaru as well?  Since fujitora can bring down meteors, offsetting light shouldn't be much of a task. Yes?


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## Tapion (May 8, 2014)

Luffee said:


> But my point is how does Fujitora being casual matters in this case when Sabo himself had been casual. He ended the fight when he wanted to and diamant? and burgess couldn't do anything about it. Why are you undermining the fact that Sabo was toying with his opponents?



Yes he was toying with his opponents who are weaker than donflaming which fuji had sweating casually...get it? that has no merit here, as fuji was "testing" his skills with stronger opponents. 




Luffee said:


> Using this logic you'd agree that Zoro is physically stronger than Fujitora as well right?



I explained my logic as to why i think zoro is "physically" stronger than sabo at the moment with scans. Fuji has shown no physical feats other than parring zoro I can't guage them...

and with this question your next answer based on how you chose to cut out the rest of the post is probably: 

"then how can you deem sabo weaker if he hasn't show physical feat ether?"

and the answer is, He opted to break the ring using a named technique which in theory targets the weak point and relies not on brute force but technique, if sabo was as casual as you claim he wouldn't bust the ring with a named technique or opted for Dragon talon instead of Breath which is probably weaker than Breath...zoro caught fuji of guard by bruteforcing out of his DF and push him back.   



Luffee said:


> So you'd agree that Fujitora can do all of these things to Kizaru as well?  Since fujitora can bring down meteors, offsetting light shouldn't be much of a task. Yes?



His gravity isn't shown to be that powerful to affect light itself...I didn't state he'd outright manipulate sabo's flames just offsetting it even though he should be more than capable of manipulation. 

the gravity or lack of, needed to affect fire is less then the gravity needed to affect light to a degree that's worth mention. 

Sabo flames are a non factor here due to inexperience and Fuji's DF. no one has yet to address this.

And arguments about him dealing with fuji's gravity powers are that he's "top tier" so he's as physically strong as zoro and should be unaffected by it even though signs lean to him relying on technique rather than power. 

I don't think I've said fuji would gravi crush him and keep him down permanently in any of my posts. Just that it will "hinder" sabo's movements after he plummets into a deep hole....sabo has no knowlage of his fruit and fuji has to have great CoO so a random fire blast isn't catching him off guard.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 8, 2014)

Fuji would snap zoros arm if they arm wrestled.


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## Louis-954 (May 8, 2014)

> Vergo is worth something then


He's really not. Law one shot him and Sabo > Law.



> Unless Diamante's sword has Hype like mihawks or is stated durable that  isn't saying much...as far as we know its a generic sword. zoro could  break his sword, sanji, luffy even brato with his barrier in a casual  manner....
> 
> this alone doesn't put him near an admiral as some claim, and that is my problem.


Yeah one of Doflamingo's right hand men is using a generic fodder marine sword. Right...



> Sabo tech involves attacking the weak spot/core from what I can  infer..In one of my replies above, I explain this..Burgress hand wasn't  busted ether*.his armor was shattered and he looked vexed by it.*


Which means Sabo's technique was superior, and not by a small amount. Burgess's armor was coated with Haki. It was anything but a stalemate.



> They won't be able to fodderize him when he gets the fruit down, but as  of now* all he really has is Dragon, Talon and Breath.* every admiral  should be able to deal with his flame in his current state...even kuzan  who stalemated a stronger version of his fruit and a more experienced  fighter with higher mastery of his DF(akainu).


I'm sure *that's all he knows *after 12 years with Dragon. Get real.


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## Lawliet (May 8, 2014)

I'm not needed here, Louis got this.


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## Tapion (May 8, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> He's really not. Law one shot him and Sabo > Law.



eh, I was saying vergo and smoker were the only VA that was worth a damn, not that they could contend. 



Louis-954 said:


> Yeah one of Doflamingo's right hand men is using a generic fodder marine sword. Right...



Its not a generic sword but it isn't special unless stated so Oda doesn't gloss over detail, ether making the fans stair in awe if its famous or dinamite being shocked his sword broke, None of that happened, he just questioned sabo's fighting style and threw the sword away.

prove to me his sword was actually worth a damn...instead of he's high tier so his sword must be high teir garbage logic. 



Louis-954 said:


> Which means Sabo's technique was superior, and not by a small amount. Burgess's armor was coated with Haki. It was anything but a stalemate.



Yes, his technique was superior...doesn't help against fuji unless Burgress and dinamite were comparable to fuji or at least, at least dolfamingo in the first place.



Louis-954 said:


> I'm sure *that's all he knows *after 12 years with Dragon. Get real.



That's all he knows until he has shown otherwise, so the quote you replied to still stands...Or are you going list his supposed tech which he has never show or mention? try again.


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## Orca (May 8, 2014)

> Yes he was toying with his opponents who are weaker than donflaming which fuji had sweating casually...get it? that has no merit here, as fuji was "testing" his skills with stronger opponents.



First of all, Doflamingo isn't leagues above Burgess if he is stronger in the first place. So you'd be grasping at straws by saying fujitora being casual with someone who is only little bit stronger than Burgess is more impressive than Sabo actually toying with the guy. Secondly, toying with someone is more impressive than bringing out shock out of someone. It's the same thing when Marco saw Teach uses gura gura. He was shocked that's all.

I'm not saying that Sabo has been more impressive as far as being casual is concerned. I'm just saying that it's a moot argument because it doesn't help your case and neither mine so just drop it.



> I explained my logic as to why i think zoro is "physically" stronger than sabo at the moment with scans. Fuji has shown no physical feats other than parring zoro I can't guage them...
> 
> and with this question your next answer based on how you chose to cut out the rest of the post is probably:
> 
> ...



This right here is a good example of your bias. Sabo using a "technique" only shows his sophistication and the fact that he doesn't have to use strength to do everything. By no means does it suggest that he's physically weaker. Sabo's lack of physical feats argument is as much applicable as fujitora's. Fujitora's fighting style that has been shown so far doesn't require him to be physically stronger either. But the truth is that they are.

And Zoro didn't catch fujitora offguard. Weren't you the one who were singing praises of Fujitora's awesome CoO? So he should have seen that coming.



> His gravity isn't shown to be that powerful to affect light itself...I didn't state he'd outright manipulate sabo's flames just offsetting it even though he should be more than capable of manipulation.
> 
> the gravity or lack of, needed to affect fire is less then the gravity needed to affect light to a degree that's worth mention.



How did you come to the conclusion that light is more resistant to gravity than fire?



> I don't think I've said fuji would gravi crush him and keep him down permanently in any of my posts. Just that it will "hinder" sabo's movements after he plummets into a deep hole....sabo has no knowlage of his fruit and fuji has to have great CoO so a random fire blast isn't catching him off guard.



I didn't say whether you said Fuji would gravicrush him or not. I asked if the same would apply to kizaru. Would  Fujitora be able to hinder kizaru's movement the same as sabo's? Would Fuji be able to evade random lasers blasts from kiz because he has impressive CoO? Even though you were the one claiming fujitora was caught off guard by Zoro. Self-contradictory?


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## Tapion (May 8, 2014)

Luffee said:


> it doesn't help your case and neither mine so just drop it.



agreed



Luffee said:


> This right here is a good example of your bias. Sabo using a "technique" only shows his sophistication and the fact that he doesn't have to use strength to do everything. By no means does it suggest that he's physically weaker. Sabo's lack of physical feats argument is as much applicable as fujitora's. Fujitora's fighting style that has been shown so far doesn't require him to be physically stronger either. But the truth is that they are.



And by how much? my main point of comparing him to zoro was that he wouldn't resist Fuji's gravity so easily...



Luffee said:


> And Zoro didn't catch fujitora offguard. Weren't you the one who were singing praises of Fujitora's awesome CoO? So he should have seen that coming.



Fujitora thought the gravity would be enough to keep Zoro down...I should have worded that better, he did see it coming and parried it. 



Luffee said:


> How did you come to the conclusion that light is more resistant to gravity than fire?



I said it wouldn't affect light in a significant manner...


*Spoiler*: __ 



 When a fire starts, it heats up the air around it. This causes that particular section of air to become less dense. That low-density section of air heads upwards because gravity is pulling down on everything and colder, denser sections of air muscle it out of the way to get closest to the earth. This is lucky for the fire, because the only reason the air got hot was because the fire was consuming the oxygen. When the low-density air got pushed up and out of the way by the oxygen-rich air, the fire got a new delivery of fresh oxygen to burn.

Not so in zero gravity. The air that's is heated by the fire does expand, but with no gravity pulling denser air down into its space, it just . . . stays there. Meanwhile the fire continues consuming oxygen and putting out carbon dioxide until it smothers itself.




Fuji has the option of lowering the gravity or turning it off and the flames wont act as they should.



Luffee said:


> I didn't say whether you said Fuji would gravicrush him or not. I asked if the same would apply to kizaru. Would  Fujitora be able to hinder kizaru's movement the same as sabo's? Would Fuji be able to evade random lasers blasts from kiz because he has impressive CoO? Even though you were the one claiming fujitora was caught off guard by Zoro. Self-contradictory?



"Zoro catching him off guard" was my bad, that wasn't what I meant to say, I worded that incorrectly....I meant Fuji thought his gravi crush would be enough to subdue.

I don't think he would be able to Hinder kizaru's movement, or at least to the point where kizaru would be at a dis-advantage they're around the same general level anyway...

I'l reiterate since my argument is, Sabo's only option is going in for Claw or Breath which Fuji can deal with using gravity control. His inexperience with the mera mera and Fuji having the option of off setting his flames takes the mera mera out of the equation as of now. He can also float and spam meteorites if he wishes. my point is that Fuji aint high diffing Sabo as some claimed not with dragon claw/breath and an unpolished mera mera....

Just to make it clear He'l show more of what he's capable of, but im talking about the current sabo who has dragon claw and an unpolished DF.


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## eyeknockout (May 8, 2014)

fujitora extreme diff

kizaru high diff

aokiji/akainu mid-high diff


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## Lawliet (May 8, 2014)

> That's all he knows until he has shown otherwise, so the quote you replied to still stands...Or are you going list his supposed tech which he has never show or mention? try again.



Not really, you're still wrong. He knows things he hasn't shown yet to us the readers. He knew the techniques he showed before landing on Dressrosa, it's just he hasn't shown them. You said that's all he knew, which is wrong, because like I said; you know things you haven't shown.


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## Tapion (May 8, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Not really, you're still wrong. He knows things he hasn't shown yet to us the readers. He knew the techniques he showed before landing on Dressrosa, it's just he hasn't shown them. You said that's all he knew, which is wrong, because like I said; you know things you haven't shown.



He hasn't shown anything other than Talon, Breath and Hiken, you can't use nonexistent moves In the battle dome. Its all he knows in regards to the battle dome as of now.


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## Louis-954 (May 8, 2014)

> Its not a generic sword but it isn't special unless stated so Oda  doesn't gloss over detail, ether making the fans stair in awe if its  famous or dinamite being shocked his sword broke, None of that happened,  he just questioned sabo's fighting style and threw the sword away.
> 
> prove to me his sword was actually worth a damn...instead of he's high tier so his sword must be high teir garbage logic.


We've seen on plenty of occasions (Kaku, Shanks, Drake, Fujitora, Rayleigh) that just because you aren't using a named sword doesn't mean the sword is "garbage." Diamante thought he was fighting against a 400 million bounty pirate, a Yonkou Division Commander and a super-rookie and you honestly believe he brought a piece of trash into the ring? xD



> That's all he knows until he has shown otherwise, so the quote you  replied to still stands...Or are you going list his supposed tech which  he has never show or mention? try again.





> He hasn't shown anything other than Talon, Breath and Hiken, you can't  use nonexistent moves In the battle dome. Its all he knows in regards to  the battle dome as of now.


So what you're saying is Chapter 1 Luffy > Kaidou and Big Mom. Use a little bit of common sense.


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## Lawliet (May 9, 2014)

Starraver said:


> He hasn't shown anything other than Talon, Breath and Hiken, you can't use nonexistent moves In the battle dome. Its all he knows in regards to the battle dome as of now.



lol no
_____________


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## Tapion (May 9, 2014)

the sword being special or not isn't important in the grand scheme of things.



Louis-954 said:


> So what you're saying is Chapter 1 Luffy > Kaidou and Big Mom. Use a little bit of common sense.



no shit big mom and kaidou should be stronger than luffy, that's not the point.
there's a general rule that you don't use characters with lack of feats or non at all in the battle dome..

Name another move other than Dragon breath and Dragon Claw that can be used to attack fujitora since his fire attacks are ineffective, I'l be waiting. We know he has to have other moves, "stronger" moves...but can you name it and tell me how it works in full detail? so its usable in the battle dome where feats supersede hype? 

my main point is.

he's giving fuji mid diff at most, akainu should low diff for having the DF advantage.

I'm not buying sabo admiral level bullshit, nether before nor after eating the mera mera.


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## Lawliet (May 9, 2014)

We're not saying Sabo will use a move he hasn't shown to beat someone. You said these techniques are all what Sabo knows which is wrong, that's all what we're saying. Stop twisting the whole discussion into something else.


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## Tapion (May 9, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> We're not saying Sabo will use a move he hasn't shown to beat someone. You said these techniques are all what Sabo knows which is wrong, that's all what we're saying. Stop twisting the whole discussion into something else.



I've used phrases such as "in the battle dome" and "at this point in time" through out my posts. what bearing does a claim that sabo doesn't know any other moves until he has shown them as far as the battle dome is concerned has on the current thread?

fine he knows other moves, other moves which cant be used in the BD because we have no idea what they are...is that better?


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## Deleted member 211714 (May 9, 2014)

Currently, he should be somewhere between Doflamingo and Marco. 
He's stronger than Doffy by a decent margin, but Marco is probably too much for him.

With mastery over Mera Mera, however, he'll be equal to Marco or slightly better.


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## Katou (May 9, 2014)

Doflαmingo said:


> then who's no. 1?...



if Doffy is 2nd . .then Fuji is 1st . . 

if Fuji is 2nd . .then Doffy is 1st


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## Rurouni Seinto (May 9, 2014)

Based solely on hype from him showing similar developmental potential in his youth as Ace did, he's currently probably stronger than Ace, maybe on the same level as Jozu/Vista, so he can only hold out for a short time against each Admiral. The only one who'd probably have any difficulty with him would be Aokiji due to having a DF that's weak to Sabo's, and that's not going to help when Ace could only clash evenly with Aokiji's Pheasant Beak because of this for a very short period (and Sabo hasn't even got complete mastery of his DF).


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## Quuon (May 9, 2014)

He gets bodied mid-difficulty by any of the colored trio.

Fujitora wins too but I have no idea what difficulty, he hasn't shown much.


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