# 7th Gate Gai vs. Nagato



## UchihaX28 (Feb 1, 2015)

Interestingly enough, it's debatable whether Gai or Nagato would win, so I'd be interested in seeing people's responses.

* Location: * Gai vs. Juubidara
* Distance: * 100m
* Knowledge: * Nagato has full knowledge, Gai has minimal knowledge. 
* Mindset: * BL
* Restrictions: * 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th Gates.

 Battle begins the moment when Gai activates the 7th Gates.

 So, who wins?


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## SSMG (Feb 1, 2015)

Guy blitzes through the dust cloud taking nagatos head off.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 1, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Guy blitzes through the dust cloud taking nagatos head off.



Nagato senses his approach and turns Gai into paste with a Shinra Tensei. As Gai tries to recover, Nagato yanks him with a Bansho Tenin and impales him on a chakra rod.


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## Trojan (Feb 1, 2015)

Nagato stomps low difficulty. Mid at most.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 1, 2015)

(1)

 Yet couldn't react to V2 Susanoo.


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## FlamingRain (Feb 1, 2015)

Nagato wasn't even looking at Susano'o....

I don't know who told you this match was debatable (With _these_ stipulations even? What?), but whoever they are, they probably just need help, not a rebuttal.

Nagato annihilates a Gai that's operating in anything less than the Eighth Gate.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 1, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> Nagato wasn't even looking at Susano'o....
> 
> I don't know who told you this match was debatable (With _these_ stipulations even? What?), but whoever they are, they probably just need help, not a rebuttal.
> 
> Nagato annihilates a Gai that's operating in anything less than the Eighth Gate.



 But he couldn't sense as well as the fact that Susanoo was in front of him anyways.

 But seriously? Nagato annihilates Gai?

 Well shit. Waiting for more responses before I feel like a retard.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 1, 2015)

No FlamingRain he genuinely think 7th gate guy can beat nagato like this don't underestimate his ridiculousness .

>100 meters

Yeah son guy gets demolished like the entirety of konoha did. Rape match.


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## Jad (Feb 1, 2015)

Starts in 7th Gate and doesn't restrict the 8th


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## Veracity (Feb 1, 2015)

Gai is a glass cannon he gets steamrolled .


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 1, 2015)

I guess I'm part of the minority here.


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## Trojan (Feb 1, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> *But he couldn't sense as well *as the fact that Susanoo was in front of him anyways.
> 
> But seriously? Nagato annihilates Gai?
> 
> Well shit. Waiting for more responses before I feel like a retard.



Nagato was under Kabuto's control directly, and kabuto did not know that Nagato is a sensor.


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## LostSelf (Feb 1, 2015)

Gai doesn't stand a chance. Only opportunity he could've had was surprising Nagato with Hirudora if he attempted to absorb it. But Nagato can see chakra.

Nagato is on another level and this matchup isn't balanced.


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## Trojan (Feb 1, 2015)

Hirudora does not kill even at a direct hit though.


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## LostSelf (Feb 1, 2015)

I actually think that's debatable. But Nagato shrugged off Bee's lariat before absorbing. So...

Edit: I would've shared Jad's post. Sadly, 8th gate is restricted.


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## Jad (Feb 1, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> I actually think that's debatable. But Nagato shrugged off Bee's lariat before absorbing. So...
> 
> Edit: I would've shared Jad's post. Sadly, 8th gate is restricted.



That's because he edit ninja'd it before I saw the restrictions....


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 1, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Nagato was under Kabuto's control directly, and kabuto did not know that Nagato is a sensor.


 
 Why does that matter? Kabuto still controlled Nagato, but that didn't stop Nagato from being able to sense the pressure building up in Itachi's eyes as he prepared Amaterasu.

 Edit: Actually, looking back, I realize I'm wrong, so I concede there.


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## Trojan (Feb 1, 2015)

Nagato was not under Kabuto's direct control when itachi used Amatersu against him.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 1, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Nagato was not under Kabuto's direct control when itachi used Amatersu against him.



 Fuck dude, was going to edit my post saying I was wrong, but I'm on a slow comp, so .


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## ARGUS (Feb 2, 2015)

Guy is being severely underrated 
In no way is this a stomp. 
Nagato would win high diff


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## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

lol, no. 7th Gate Gai is easily one of the most overrated characters, right next to DMS Kakashi.


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## ARGUS (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> lol, no. 7th Gate Gai is easily one of the most overrated characters, right next to DMS Kakashi.



I'm definitely agreeing with DMS kakashi being the most overrated and wanked character to death 
Guy is also overrated however he's not getting overrated here
How is nagato even reacting to 7th gate guy 
He tagged even juudara. So not seeing why nagato can't be tagged and slammed down


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## FlamingRain (Feb 2, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> He tagged even juudara.



He tagged him because Madara only opted to block, though.

It also wasn't anywhere near 100 meters from Gai's position to Madara's.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 2, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> I'm definitely agreeing with DMS kakashi being the most overrated and wanked character to death
> Guy is also overrated however he's not getting overrated here
> How is nagato even reacting to 7th gate guy
> He tagged even juudara. So not seeing why nagato can't be tagged and slammed down


Where did he 'tag' Juubi Madara?

This is the ENTIRE exchange and Guy didn't hit anything and ended up with broken ribs.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 2, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Where did he 'tag' Juubi Madara?
> 
> This is the ENTIRE exchange and Guy didn't hit anything and ended up with broken ribs.



 Implying Nagato's reactions are on par with Juubidara's. 

 Juubidara is the same guy who managed to react to SM Minato's Hiraishin and chop off his arm. Nagato doesn't even have reaction feats on par with that. He couldn't even ST Itachi and KCM Naruto away even though they clearly weren't prepared for it.

 Juubidara's Gedoudama that could even hit Obito using Kamui (after his striking speed proved not be enough) wasn't able to be used against Gai when they engaged in CQC. Even when he paused to prepare for Hirudora, he still couldn't use any of the Gedoudamas against him.


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## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> I'm definitely agreeing with DMS kakashi being the most overrated and wanked character to death
> Guy is also overrated however he's not getting overrated here
> How is nagato even reacting to 7th gate guy
> He tagged even juudara. So not seeing why nagato can't be tagged and slammed down



It's 100m my dear. 
and I believe Dominus did a really good job in this regard.


> *Spoiler*: __



Those kind of feats are really overrated. To me, I think it's painfully obvious that 7th Gate Gai is meant to be around Kisame's level. Those scans above are barely any different than Sakura's feats with Kaguya in my humble opinion. Or Tobirama's feat with Obito, which never made him stronger than Hashirama for example.  

Also, since Kisame was not even killed, there is no way Nagato who had the Uzumaki life force would die from that.


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## FlamingRain (Feb 2, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Juubidara's Gedoudama that could even hit Obito using Kamui (after his striking speed proved not be enough) wasn't able to be used against Gai when they engaged in CQC. Even when he paused to prepare for Hirudora, he still couldn't use any of the Gedoudamas against him.



So in other words: Gedōdama > Kamui > Madara's striking speed > Gai's Hirudora > Gedōdama > Madara's striking speed...

This doesn't make any sense and you know it.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> It's 100m my dear.
> and I believe Dominus did a really good job in this regard.
> 
> 
> ...



 ^ 7th Gate Gai also didn't collapse after using Hirudora on Kisame while he did immediately after using on Juubidara which implies he didn't go all out on Kisame.


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## FlamingRain (Feb 2, 2015)

That wasn't because of Hirudora, though.

Jūbidara actually _went and knocked Gai down_.


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## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

Actually he did collapse after that. He started screaming when the Kid touched even his clothes. And he stayed like that till the war started when Sakura healed him. Needless to say, Kisame was also not at his best since he was fighting without his sword, which is for a swordsman is a really big handicap.


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## Nikushimi (Feb 2, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Interestingly enough, it's debatable whether Gai or Nagato would win



It isn't debatable at all.

Nagato blows away Hirudora with a village-hollowing Shinra Tensei and turns Gai into a charred organic grease stain.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 2, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> So in other words: Gedōdama > Kamui > Madara's striking speed > Gai's Hirudora > Gedōdama > Madara's striking speed...
> 
> This doesn't make any sense and you know it.



 Preparing Hirudora for a panel obviously gave enough time for Madara to react.

 Why he didn't use Gedodama is probably because using the Gedodama spheres can't negate the damage done from Hirudora.

 Edit: If anybody else would want to chime in, that's fine. I need to rest a bit from this debating.


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## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> It isn't debatable at all.
> 
> Nagato blows away Hirudora with a village-hollowing Shinra Tensei and turns Gai into a charred organic grease stain.



He does not need a village size. lol
FRS is on a higher level than the AT, and it got defeated easily with the regular ST from Pain, who's weaker than Nagato. 


****

Kishi made it like the legendary swords are 50% of the power of the swordsmen. So, Kisame was really fighting with 50% of his power against Gai. It's really funny how Kishi always put Kisame at a disadvantage against Gai.  

As I said, 7th Gate Gai is around Kisame's level. There is no way he would have any chance against
Nagato.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 2, 2015)

^ Fair enough. I'm didn't start this thread to convince you guys that 7th Gate Gai is stronger.

 If you believe that Nagato is stronger, that's fine. I don't think neither of us are wrong in this case since you guys have provided some good evidence.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

I want to know what stops Guy from dealing several flash-ripping blows on Nagato's jaw before he uses any of  his Rinnegan's abilities...


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

> He does not need a village size. lol
> FRS is on a higher level than the AT, and it got defeated easily with the regular ST from Pain, who's weaker than Nagato.
> 
> 
> ...



What Samehada gives to Kisame other than better CQC offensive capabilities and chakra absorbtion? 

And how Kisame could react to 7 Gates Guy anyway? How exactly sword would have helped him against Guy?


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## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

recovery. 

shark mode..
and durability.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> recovery.



Wont help against Guy, who could rip Kisame's flesh with 7 Gates casual punches. And for sure Kisame cant react to 7 Gates Guy. Several blows on Kisame's head and he is done. It doesnt matter if he have, or doesnt have Samehada.


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## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

lol, yet it will. And Gai with a direct hit did not rip Kisame's flesh. So, stop with your bullshiting. 

why do i even bother anyway. -____-


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Feb 2, 2015)

I love the smell of Gai wank in the morning, it's refreshing as always.

Anyway Nagato low diff.

Bansho Tennin, followed by Human path soul RIP = GG


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## Xcoyote (Feb 2, 2015)

Nagato is a fucking retard,he would try to absorb Hirudora with Preta.Gai oneshots.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> lol, yet it will. And Gai with a direct hit did not rip Kisame's flesh. So, stop with your bullshiting.
> 
> why do i even bother anyway. -____-



Maybe because Guy didnt want to kill him to get an information from him? And do not forget Guy paralysed him with 1 Hirudora. 

Kisame spit blood from a casual 7 Gates punch to the chest. Maybe its not flesh-ripping, but i doubt Kisame can withstand several blows of that magnitude to his jaw. And Samehada wont help him. Dont know how exactly Samehada will change the battle outcome when Kisame will be knocked out by Guy and maybe killed.



> I love the smell of Gai wank in the morning, it's refreshing as always.
> 
> Anyway Nagato low diff.
> 
> Bansho Tennin, followed by Human path soul RIP = GG



And i hate such a bullsh*t in the morning. Nagato cant react to Guy. Guy can take him out before he uses any of his abilities.


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## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

> Maybe because Guy didnt want to kill him to get an information from him? And do not forget Guy paralysed him with 1 Hirudora.



Nothing of that was even in Gai's mind as far as I remember. And I don't think he can make it weaker even if he wanted to. He can only use 1 Hirudora. 

Have we ever seen him use more than that at the same time? No, we haven't. 



> Kisame spit blood from a casual 7 Gates punch to the chest. Maybe its not flesh-ripping, but i doubt Kisame can withstand several blows of that magnitude to his jaw. And Samehada wont help him. Dont know how exactly Samehada will change the battle outcome when Kisame will be knocked out by Guy and maybe killed.



B ripped the fuck out of Kisame's chest, and yet his sword healed him in no time, and Kisame continued fighting him.
and Guy didn't hit anything and ended up with broken ribs.
and Guy didn't hit anything and ended up with broken ribs.
and Guy didn't hit anything and ended up with broken ribs.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Nothing of that was even in Gai's mind as far as I remember. And I don't think he can make it weaker even if he wanted to. He can only use 1 Hirudora.
> 
> Have we ever seen him use more than that at the same time? No, we haven't.
> 
> ...



How can he heal his wounds when he will already be knocked out? Guy can speedblitz him and hit him lots of times in a jaw. Or paralyse him with Hirudora and hit him after that to kill him. 

Kisame healed chest wound, while Bee wasnt attacking him. Guy will hit him without giving him time to recover. Guy will break his head, or paralyse him.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 2, 2015)

Xcoyote said:


> Nagato is a fucking retard,he would try to absorb Hirudora with Preta.Gai oneshots.


OR he just deflects with Shinra Tensei which turns Guy into a ragdoll and then yanks him into a Chakra Rod. Without the Eighth Gate, Guy isn't defeating a Top Tier.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> OR he just deflects with Shinra Tensei which turns Guy into a ragdoll and then yanks him into a Chakra Rod. Without the Eighth Gate, Guy isn't defeating a Top Tier.



Who has faster movement speed and reaction speed - Nagato, or Juubidara?


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## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

@StarWanderer

just forget it. As I though talking with you is just a waste of time. You Mega Troll.


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## RBL (Feb 2, 2015)

lol at the guys who always say kisame would stand a chance against Gai.

the 3 fights gai had against kisame, ended with a single movement, you can see the difference of power between them, gai was obviously above, he just needed 1 attack to make him realize he had to commit suicide, and gai was not even trying to kill him.

OT : i don't know who wins, but noone is winning with low-diff, that's for sure, gai is no joke.

people UNDERRATE 7gated gai a lot, just because we saw the eight gate, doesn't mean the seventh gate is fodder level.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> @StarWanderer
> 
> just forget it. As I though talking with you is just a waste of time. You Mega Troll.



No, you are a troll. And i can back that up with evidences. 

By the way, i will ask you the same quastion i asked SuperSaiyaMan12. Who has faster movement speed and reaction speed - Nagato, or Juubidara?


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## Icegaze (Feb 2, 2015)

nagato murders gai. only with 8th gate can gai win
7th gate is simply not enough. ST would smack gai to the ground countering gai any and every attempt. 

this isnt even remotely debatable. pushing juudara back for 1 panel doesnt remotely mean he can defeat weaker opponents. 

obito would still troll gai. nagato technique simply works fantasticaly against gai thats all


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> nagato murders gai. only with 8th gate can gai win
> 7th gate is simply not enough. ST would smack gai to the ground countering gai any and every attempt.
> 
> this isnt even remotely debatable. pushing juudara back for 1 panel doesnt remotely mean he can defeat weaker opponents.
> ...



It means Guy can speedblitz Nagato before Nagato can use anything. Because, if he could surprise Juubidara with his speed, push him on the defensive and avoid Juubidara's blitz, than he can easily, *effortlessly*, speedblitz Nagato before Nagato can use anything. *Because Nagato cant react to him. *

Its logic and common sense. 7 Gates Guy aither knocks Nagato out, or kills him.


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## Ghost (Feb 2, 2015)

Lmao. What the fuck? Guy gets stomped hard. Bansho Tenin + Soul Rip, Asura laz0rs or Shinra Tensei. Take your pic.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

Saikyou said:


> Lmao. What the fuck? Guy gets stomped hard. Bansho Tenin + Soul Rip, Asura laz0rs or Shinra Tensei. Take your pic.



Lmao. Guy speedblitz Nagato from 100 meters distance. 7 Gates Guy can surprise Juubidara from such a distance with his speed, pressure him and avoid his blitz. 

Guy blitz Nagato before Nagato can use anything. Because Nagato cant react to 7 Gates Guy.


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## Mercurial (Feb 2, 2015)

Gated Gai could move far faster than Madara's Gudodama and 7th Gated Gai could punch Edo Madara without he being able to react by a frontal position (Hiru Tora is nothing more than his fastest punch that makes a shockwave with the pressure it creates in the air). With 7th Gate Gai was also so fast to pressure Juubi jinchuriki SM Madara with his speed and taijutsu to the point the latter could dodge and block his hits but couldn't touch him with the Gudodama staff or balls and couldn't counter him until Gai unleashed Hiru Tora on him; this while SM Minato was counterblitzed and hit like a baby by Madara. Nagato is hella strong but I don't remember he having that great reaction feats. Gai blitzes him and kills him with Hiru Tora in the face before he can react.


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## sabre320 (Feb 2, 2015)

ah the gai wank...


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## Icegaze (Feb 2, 2015)

typical BS statements. 
nagato sees gai isnt at his initial position and uses ST 
its that simple. 

pushing back juudara who used no jutsu doesnt remotely mean gai can beat weaker people. 

ok let me ask you this since you are a kakashi fan, therefore by proxy an obito fan 

can 7 gate gai blitz and kill obito before obito can kamui? 

better question can 7 gate gai blitz and kill kakashi before kakashi can kamui save himself. 

am curious as to your replies to those questions


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## Mercurial (Feb 2, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> typical BS statements.
> nagato sees gai isnt at his initial position and uses ST
> its that simple.
> 
> ...



He can't as Obito has just to react to him in his mind and he's already saved thanks to Kamui phasing. If you mean Kamui teleporting in the other dimension or away, yes Gai can.

Against Kakashi I don't know, as Kakashi would have to react to him and follow his speed to open the Kamui warp on him and then close it. I guess Kakashi could take away an arm or something, I don't know. If you mean Kamui teleporting in the other dimension or away, yes Gai can.

Both Obito and Kakashi have better reflexes than Nagato, anyway.


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## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

Bruce Lee said:


> lol at the guys who always say kisame would stand a chance against Gai.
> 
> the 3 fights gai had against kisame, ended with a single movement, you can see the difference of power between them, gai was obviously above, he just needed 1 attack to make him realize he had to commit suicide, and gai was not even trying to kill him.
> 
> ...



lol, what type of 1 attacks, and what was the situation for each of them? Let me remind you please.

The first fight:

 Kisame was attacking Kakashi, and Gai came out of no where saving Kakashi. The battle ended at that. It cannot even be called a battle.

The second fight:

It was 30% of Kisame's chakra used by a clone Vs Gai's TEAM. That clone used another THREE clones to one-shot Neji, Lee, and Ten-Ten. So, if this jutsu work like the usual clone, then Gai was fighting Kisame with only 7.5% of his chakra. And that needed 6 Gates for him to defeat a CLONE.

The third fight:

Kisame was massively weaker at first, then he absorbed B's chakra. We do not know if he got all of his chakra back, or not. And he was fighting WITHOUT his swords which is HALF of his power. To defeat this Kisame Gai needed to use 7 GATES. 

Conclusion, Gai has NEVER fought Kisame at full power. 
and yet he needs the upper gates to defeat him. Kisame with his sword will require Gai to use all 8 Gates.


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## Icegaze (Feb 2, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> He can't as Obito has just to react to him in his mind and he's already saved thanks to Kamui phasing. If you mean Kamui teleporting in the other dimension or away, yes Gai can.



nagato just has to react to him as well. why can obito and not nagato. despite the better eyes and sensing? i knew u would be biased. at least my point is proven 



> Against Kakashi I don't know, as Kakashi would have to react to him and follow his speed to open the Kamui warp on him and then close it. I guess Kakashi could take away an arm or something, I don't know. If you mean Kamui teleporting in the other dimension or away, yes Gai can.



so you dont know against kakashi but somehow you are suuuure gai can lol rape nagato. . again BS bias. seriously why are people like this

so kakashi can follow his speed despite zero feats to back it up. but somehow nagato cant. kakashi has never followed anyting as fast as 7 gate gai based off *FEATS!!! * based on those anywayz gai is faster than BM naruto. you know since fail logic dictates it since bM naruto never blitz juudara or pushed him back

seriously, so somehow kakashi can follow gai speed and take an arm off. but nagato cannot just ST on reflex despite him not needing to track gai to even use it.  ...are you hearing yourself



> Both Obito and Kakashi have better reflexes than Nagato, anyway.


[/QUOTE]

nagato doesnt need to react. he simply needs to use it the instant gai does anything. the harder gai comes at him the further he would be sent flying 

also as to the better reactions. thats BS and you know it. nagato never actually fought in battle.

no reaction feats doesnt mean you cant react to anything. but hey u are no different from SSMG and the rest of them flip floppers


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## Bonly (Feb 2, 2015)

Gai needs the 8th gate to beat/draw(whichever tickles your fancy) Nagato otherwise Gai earns a painful death


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## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

What If Nagato made a clone of him that also use the 8th Gate?


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## Mercurial (Feb 2, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> nagato just has to react to him as well. why can obito and not nagato. despite the better eyes and sensing? i knew u would be biased. at least my point is proven
> 
> 
> so you dont know against kakashi but somehow you are suuuure gai can lol rape nagato. . again BS bias. seriously why are people like this
> ...



nagato doesnt need to react. he simply needs to use it the instant gai does anything. the harder gai comes at him the further he would be sent flying 

also as to the better reactions. thats BS and you know it. nagato never actually fought in battle.

no reaction feats doesnt mean you cant react to anything. but hey u are no different from SSMG and the rest of them flip floppers[/QUOTE]

Proven? By what? Better eyes doesn't mean better reflexes/reactions over all. Actually only the Sharingan/Mangekyo/EMS has the precognition, and maybe the Sharinnegan too, but the Rinnegan has never been shown or said to have it. So moot point. Sensing doesn't help, it's not like C or Chukichi can react to fast speedsters just because they are good sensors. Sensing helps recognizing chakra buildup to preempt jutsu, nothing more.

Kakashi has better reflexes than him, so does Obito. Kakashi reacted on par with Minato, outreacted Obito (who can react to Naruto with utmost ease) and on foot speed was on par with lower Gates Gai more than once (if he wasn't Gai wouldn't have powered up with Gates just to lower his speed to combo with Kakashi, if he wasn't fast enough, he wouldn't have use the Gates to then not use their real speed). Kakashi with long range Kamui could warp head sized objects in the same window of time of Obito's intangibility and of a movement of 5 cm from KCM Naruto (1), or before being hit by something kicked by SM Juubi jinchuriki Madara while being already touched by it (2), human sized masses so fast that people with full knowledge and top notch reflexes boosted by Mangekyo Sharingan and Rinnegan vision couldn't perceive the warping happening in front of their eyes (namely Obito ofc) and that before a Kamui shooted stake that was hitting BM Naruto could move for more than a couple of cm (3)(4)(5)(6), could warp away a Gedo Mazo arm while he was summoned with S/T, in no time, with KCM Minato not being able to register what happened (7) ; just think how big the Gedo's arm is, how much time is needed to summon something once Kuchiyose no jutsu has started, how high is KCM Minato's perception and his reflexes. With his feats I think that he could somehow warp or not a body part of Gai even if he can't perfectly track him. After all, it seems that War Arc 1 MS Kakashi is portrayed as slightly > than up to 7th Gate Gai.

And yeah 7th Gate Gai is definitely faster than BM Naruto by feats.

Nagato has fought, it's just that he didn't show that great reaction feats you could say he would react to 6th or 7th Gate Gai, sorry. Also a Shinra Tensei wouldn't definitely KO Gai, that tanks the pain of Gates like nothing, even the 8th, and can tank his own Hiru Tora with nothing more a couple of broken bones. A second after a ST, Gai would be banging Nagato, so even if he could react, which he shouldn't based on feats and hype, he wouldn't be able to defend, let alone defeat him.


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## LostSelf (Feb 2, 2015)

People should know this thread is unbalanced when Jad and I are not saying Gai wins. Stop it already.

Also, Gai in lower gates moved faster than Madara's black balls that i never know how to write


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## Icegaze (Feb 2, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> nagato doesnt need to react. he simply needs to use it the instant gai does anything. the harder gai comes at him the further he would be sent flying
> 
> also as to the better reactions. thats BS and you know it. nagato never actually fought in battle.
> 
> no reaction feats doesnt mean you cant react to anything. but hey u are no different from SSMG and the rest of them flip floppers



P





> roven? By what? Better eyes doesn't mean better reflexes/reactions over all. Actually only the Sharingan/Mangekyo/EMS has the precognition, and maybe the Sharinnegan too, but the Rinnegan has never been shown or said to have it. So moot point. Sensing doesn't help, it's not like C or Chukichi can react to fast speedsters just because they are good sensors. Sensing helps recognizing chakra buildup to preempt jutsu, nothing more.
> 
> Kakashi has better reflexes than him, so does Obito. Kakashi reacted on par with Minato, outreacted Obito (who can react to Naruto with utmost ease) and on foot speed was on par with lower Gates Gai more than once (if he wasn't Gai wouldn't have powered up with Gates just to lower his speed to combo with Kakashi, if he wasn't fast enough, he wouldn't have use the Gates to then not use their real speed). Kakashi with long range Kamui could warp head sized objects in the same window of time of Obito's intangibility and of a movement of 5 cm from KCM Naruto (1), or before being hit by something kicked by SM Juubi jinchuriki Madara while being already touched by it (2), human sized masses so fast that people with full knowledge and top notch reflexes boosted by Mangekyo Sharingan and Rinnegan vision couldn't perceive the warping happening in front of their eyes (namely Obito ofc) and that before a Kamui shooted stake that was hitting BM Naruto could move for more than a couple of cm (3)(4)(5)(6), could warp away a Gedo Mazo arm while he was summoned with S/T, in no time, with KCM Minato not being able to register what happened (7) ; just think how big the Gedo's arm is, how much time is needed to summon something once Kuchiyose no jutsu has started, how high is KCM Minato's perception and his reflexes. With his feats I think that he could somehow warp or not a body part of Gai even if he can't perfectly track him. After all, it seems that War Arc 1 MS Kakashi is portrayed as slightly > than up to 7th Gate Gai.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

as you said 7th gate is faster than BM by feats. so essentially you have no basis to say kakashi can react then. true or false. lets cut through the bla bla. am fine with you saying nagato looses so far as you arent biased enough to say kakashi can track and kamui gai while nagato cant even do so much as 1 ST. 

i dont like bias. stick with 1 thought process please 

ST by deva KO 3 boss summons. deva<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<nagato 

assumign gai can tank ST when nagato intends to kill him with it is simply more bias and for no reason. as well 

you brought up obito rinnegan when talkign about kakashi kamui naruto to escpae the stake why?? didnt you just say rinnegan doesnt help reactions? 

You can claim all you want kakashi and obito have better feats. what all 3 dont have is reacting to gai. so like i said i just need consistency in your thought process and not fan bias. 

Am obviously of the opinion gai gets flattened. yours can be different it simply needs to be consistent otherwise you are no better than hussain


----------



## Dominus (Feb 2, 2015)

7th Gate Gai is faster than Madara so he obviously wins against the cripple. He could have also beaten Madara, but he simply wanted to die.


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

It is *OBVIOUS* that 7 Gates Guy speedblitz Nagato. Nagato doesnt have reaction speed and movement speed feats *EVEN CLOSE* to those of 7 Gates Guy.

7 Gates Guy will speedblitz Nagato before Nagato does *ANYTHING*. It has been proven by *MANGA*.

You may like it or dislike it, but thats how Kishimoto made it. So face it, people - *7 Gates Guy speedblitz*.


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Feb 2, 2015)

Nagato blows Gai out to 1km with CST before Gai "blitzes" him in 100m. If Gai has 3rd Raikage level durability and survives, Nagato bombards him with Asura Path or step on him with Large Summons or lock him with CT until Gai finally turns to paste. 

Fanon 7 Gate Gai though can blitz Jubito and Jubidara, Nagato stands no chance.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

Legendary Itachi said:


> Nagato blows Gai out to 1km with CST before Gai "blitzes" him in 100m. If Gai has 3rd Raikage level durability and survives, Nagato bombards him with Asura Path or step on him with Large Summons or lock him with CT until Gai finally turns to paste.
> 
> Fanon 7 Gate Gai though can blitz Jubito and Jubidara, Nagato stands no chance.



7 Gates Guy speedblitz Nagato before Nagato does anything. 7 Gates Guy is too fast for him.

Fanon Nagato though is as fast with his movement speed and reaction speed as Juubidara. Or even faster - its Fanon Nagato after all!  7 Gates Guy stands no chance.


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## Patrick (Feb 2, 2015)

Holy shit stop it with the Gai wank. He's strong but he's not even close to the level of Nagato. Remember how it ended for Bee and Naruto when they tried to blitz him? These guys have comparable speed to 7th Gate Gai and far superior durability and reactions speed yet would have died on the spot if not for Itachi's pinpoint interference. 

Nagato Low-Mid Dif.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

Patrick said:


> Holy shit stop it with the Gai wank. He's strong but he's not even close to the level of Nagato. Remember how it ended for Bee and Naruto when they tried to blitz him? These guys have comparable speed to 7th Gate Gai and far superior durability and reactions speed yet would have died on the spot if not for Itachi's pinpoint interference.
> 
> Nagato Low-Mid Dif.



KCM Naruto, weakened by his own clones and Killer Bee have speed comparable to 7 Gates Guy's speed and better reaction speed than 7 Gates Guy...


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## Legendary Itachi (Feb 2, 2015)

7 Gate Gai's strongest and fastest punch can't even make Madara break a sweat, let alone surprising him with normal kicks.


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## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

What's nagatis best reaction feats? Reacting to killer bees lariat? Or failing to react to the sword of tosuka? 

If this is it he's going to get blitzed by guy even at this distance seeing as guy is many times faster than either of those.

Now I know a lot of ppl say the dust was in the way for the sot.. But that doesn't matter itt... Because guy going seventh gate kicks up a lot of dust too allowing for a similar style blitz if you entertain the fact that thats why itachi sealed nagato.

Also seeing as juubidara got pressured at a similar distance as this topic starts at nagato will be blitzed. And I don't think anyone is going to claim nagato has reactions similar to juubidara.

But let's assume nagato can for whatever reason react to seventh gate guy(which he can't but a lot of fanon comments here are making it seem like he will) how is he going to counter guys pyhsical attacks? Shinra tensei? 
Sixth tailed naruto who is weaker than KcM naruto who is weaker than seventh gated guy withstood it.. So guy will withstand that as well.

Preta path wouldn't work. 

He could summon a summon but guy would throw it away like sm jiraiya and naruto did or one shot it like sakura did. This would only prevent the inveitable. 

If he bansho tenseis that wouldn't work as it would just increase guys already crazy speed and drawing guy in for cqc. Let's not forget kakashi with a chain withstood BT so I don't see why guy can't just withstand it.
 Chakra rod wouldn't work seeing as kakashi and sm naruto were able to put one in them without getting instantly stunned. And guy is much more powerful than either of them.

Now that's just for guys punches and kicks.

If he uses a hirudora then how's nagato going to counter that? With a SST? It may be able to block it but seeing as guys hirudora he used against kisame was much much bigger than konoha seeing as it dwarfed the title island by many folds and reached the clouds.. then I doubt this will work. Also iirc the sst has a little bit of prep tme so if so its not viabale. But let's say it does block hirudora.. Nagato would be unable to use any st and guy can just follow it up with another hirudora(seeing as he could spam EE under more stress on his body than hirudora will be no problem) I think that's really his only potential option as if he tries to use ct a hirudora to the core would work to take it out. And also a ct wouldn't stop a preexisting hirudora being launched to nagatos face anyways.

So guy will more likely than not take out nagato with the aforementioned methods.

Now for nagatos offense.. Does he have anything as fast and as powerful as a gudodama? Because guy in a lower level of gates had outrun and tanked one of those to save kakashi.
So if he doesn't he isn't hitting guy and is not hurting guy.

All in all I stand by my first comment that guy will blitz through the dust and take off nagatos head with a kick.


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## LostSelf (Feb 2, 2015)

I love star wanderer.

The almighty Gaikage is proud of you son. And i am not joking.


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## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> I love star wanderer.
> 
> The almighty Gaikage is proud of you son. And i am not joking.




Well he's not wrong. Its literally face palm worthy saying kcm naruto is as fast as seventh gate guy.. When base guy has comparable speed feats to kcm.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 2, 2015)

Dominus said:


> 7th Gate Gai is faster than Madara so he obviously wins against the cripple. He could have also beaten Madara, but he simply wanted to die.


Seven Gated Guy never landed a single blow on Madara. Not only that he was bitchslapped like everyone else.


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## sabre320 (Feb 2, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Well he's not wrong. Its literally face palm worthy saying kcm naruto is as fast as seventh gate guy.. When base guy has comparable speed feats to kcm.



first you say gai brushes of a st from nagato while deva path casually launched 3 boss summons into the next block kn6 has some of the best defensive feats is physically much stronger then kcm naruto and gai is a glass cannon his defense is not enhanced a st will break every bone in his body base gai as fast as kcm naruto..

gai wank wow


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 2, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Well he's not wrong. Its literally face palm worthy saying kcm naruto is as fast as seventh gate guy.. When base guy has comparable speed feats to kcm.


A KCM Naruto who was keeping his movements slow for Guy to keep up. Seventh Gated Guy is barely Kisame's level (given he could barely beat a Samehada-less Kisame), yet you're making him out to be as strong as High and Top Tiers?


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

Legendary Itachi said:


> 7 Gate Gai's strongest and fastest punch can't even make Madara break a sweat, let alone surprising him with normal kicks.



7 Gates Guy:

1. Has shorten a very big distance (at least close to 100 meters, i think) in a moment, appeared before Juubidara and surprised him by that (by his speed).

2. Avoided speedblitz from Juubidara.

3. Pressured Juubidara with his taijutsu. 

4. Was fast enough to utilise Hirudora against Juubidara.

Thats the point. Nagato isnt even close to Juubidara in movement speed and reaction speed. Therefore, Nagato gets knocked out and his face becomes something like this:



Thats bloody. But thats what will happen to Nagato's face after 7 Gates Guy connects few times with his casual hits. 

What will happen if Guy decides to hit him with Hirudora? Well, one-shot. Thats what happens.

And, unlike most of the people here who wrote about wank, i can back up my words with evidence and common sense.


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## ceralux (Feb 2, 2015)

7th and 9th gate were the worst things that happened to this manga. This shit was so ridiculous, it severely overrates Might Gai.

Nagato should obviously be stronger than Gai.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> A KCM Naruto who was keeping his movements slow for Guy to keep up. Seventh Gated Guy is barely Kisame's level (given he could barely beat a Samehada-less Kisame), yet you're making him out to be as strong as High and Top Tiers?



*READ THE D*MN MANGA. READ THAT AMASING GOD BLESSED MANGA. BECAUSE THAT THING YOU WROTE THERE IS ANOTHER FACEPALM-WORTH NONSENSE. 

SHINOBI NO KAMI, YOUR HALL OF FAIL LIST CAN BE FILLED WITH ANOTHER ONE. 
*


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Seven Gated Guy never landed a single blow on Madara. Not only that he was bitchslapped like everyone else.



And... So what? 

7 Gates Might Guy shorten a distance and appeared before Juubidara in a moment, surprising him (a Juubi Jin). Later, he pressured Juubidara with his taijutsu to the point Juubidara couldnt speedblitz him. And, finally, 7 Gates Guy was fast enough to use Hirudora against Juubidara. He didnt land a blow on him, but he was fast enough to surprise him and pressure him to the point he couldnt counter. 

Your posts are so stupid, realy. Its not even funny anymore. You are trying to nullify an obvious manga fact. Its furking...

*OBVIOUS*

But whatever, you may write another nonsense there, as you often do.


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## Legendary Itachi (Feb 2, 2015)

Madara's wasn't even trying. He barely remembers who the fuck this guy is despite their clash hours ago. What's next? Gai can solo Jubidara with Taijutsu yet can't take Edo Madara with Bee's help?


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## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> first you say gai brushes of a st from nagato while deva path casually launched 3 boss summons into the next block kn6 has some of the best defensive feats is physically much stronger then kcm naruto and gai is a glass cannon his defense is not enhanced a st will break every bone in his body base gai as fast as kcm naruto..
> 
> gai wank wow



Bringing up the toads doesnt reallly help your argent at all because when pain used the same st on human sized opponenets they dont get sent nearly as far and dont recieve nearly as much damage. 

Seventh gate guy is many times more powerful than sixth tailed naruto seeing as madara not even in juubi form over power bsm naruto who is >kcm who is > sixth tailed naruto.. And guy was able to push juubidara(a stronger version of madara) back. 
 You claim sixth tailed naruto is stronger than kcm naruto which goes against all logic so do you have any proof of that claim?

And really? A st will break every bone in guys body yet has never done so to any other human sized opponent? I doubt that. Especially since guy is stronger than every other human that has been hit by an st. 

Just because you downplay guy doesn't mean I'm wanking him.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> A KCM Naruto who was keeping his movements slow for Guy to keep up. Seventh Gated Guy is barely Kisame's level (given he could barely beat a Samehada-less Kisame), yet you're making him out to be as strong as High and Top Tiers?



Umm no it was a kcm naruto that was trying to attack the speedster than is obito. And guy had to cover the same distance in less time to save narutos ass from said obito. Therefore base guy is in his speed class if not faster.

And yeah guy is barely above kisame yet he one shotted him. I've been in street fights where I've one hitted quitted someone but according to your logic it was a close fight and I barely won.. That's fucking stupid logic and you should feel bad for using it.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

Legendary Itachi said:


> Madara's wasn't even trying. He barely remembers who the fuck this guy is despite their clash hours ago. What's next? Gai can solo Jubidara with Taijutsu yet can't take Edo Madara with Bee's help?



He barely remembered who he is before Guy went 7 Gates, and as if it proves anything. 

And how can you prove Juubidara wasnt even trying? Can you prove that by manga, or some logic? Maybe some common sense? Why should he hold himself back when he didnt against Minato, whom he blitzed effortlessly? 

And lol, Guy used Hirudora on Edo Madara successfully. But he suffered from Gates side effects.


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## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

Legendary Itachi said:


> Madara's wasn't even trying. He barely remembers who the fuck this guy is despite their clash hours ago. What's next? Gai can solo Jubidara with Taijutsu yet can't take Edo Madara with Bee's help?



Umm we don't know what level of gates guy used against Edo madara if any. He could have been put into the wood dragons clutches before using any form of gates. You can't really use an off panel fight to downplay what did happen on panel.


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## sabre320 (Feb 2, 2015)

Legendary Itachi said:


> Madara's wasn't even trying. He barely remembers who the fuck this guy is despite their clash hours ago. What's next? Gai can solo Jubidara with Taijutsu yet can't take Edo Madara with Bee's help?



Pretty much this he couldnt even pressure edo madara with that juubi jin blitzing speed lol if he possesed that speed he would blitz edo madara no problem and not get caught by freaking mokuton branches..he was in awe of bm narutos speed he was never known as the fastest shinobi even though people like kakashi and yammato knew of his 7th gate....madara was playing with him once he got serious he backhanded gais fastest attack he even blocked 8th gate gais first elephant step but nope dat 7th gate speed


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 2, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Umm no it was a kcm naruto that was trying to attack the speedster than is obito. And guy had to cover the same distance in less time to save narutos ass from said obito. Therefore base guy is in his speed class if not faster.


Naruto was working with two people slower than him. At no point did he use his high speed in KCM against Obito since if he did, Kakashi and Guy couldn't keep up. Guy was amazed of Naruto's BM speed.


> And yeah guy is barely above kisame yet he one shotted him. I've been in street fights where I've one hitted quitted someone but according to your logic it was a close fight and I barely won.. That's fucking stupid logic and you should feel bad for using it.


'One-Shot' despite Kisame still being conscious and still being able to move. Hirudora couldn't even knock him out. And yes, it was barely a win since Kisame _lacked Samehada_.


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## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Naruto was working with two people slower than him. At no point did he use his high speed in KCM against Obito since if he did, Kakashi and Guy couldn't keep up. Guy was amazed of Naruto's BM speed.
> 
> 'One-Shot' despite Kisame still being conscious and still being able to move. Hirudora couldn't even knock him out. And yes, it was barely a win since Kisame _lacked Samehada_.



Again naruto rushed in on obito.. With just himself. He was not working in tandem with guy and kakashi at this point so your entire premise is moot.

And yeah guy was amazed at bm naruto speed so what? We know guy can move faster than that so that doesn't mean much. Its like when I see a 15 year old kid in the gym bench 200lbs I am pretty amazed.. Despite the fact I can do more than that.
 Hirudora didn't knock kisame out more, but it also wasnt intending on doing so. Its primary goal was to destroy all the sharks which it did do. Guys punch to kisame gut did however KO kisame.

And so what if kisame didn't have his sword? Kisame had just drained killer bee dry of chakra so he was as strong as he has ever been and guy has already disarmed kisame once in base he'd do it again in seventh gate.


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## sabre320 (Feb 2, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Bringing up the toads doesnt reallly help your argent at all because when pain used the same st on human sized opponenets they dont get sent nearly as far and dont recieve nearly as much damage.
> 
> Seventh gate guy is many times more powerful than sixth tailed naruto seeing as madara not even in juubi form over power bsm naruto who is >kcm who is > sixth tailed naruto.. And guy was able to push juubidara(a stronger version of madara) back.
> You claim sixth tailed naruto is stronger than kcm naruto which goes against all logic so do you have any proof of that claim?
> ...



madara freakin used outerpath hax against naruto ...gai didnt land one hit one madara push back my ass he has normal durability deva path was weaker before the other were downed and nagato is much stronger then deva kcm naruto is overall stronger and faster then 6tailed naruto but more durable and stronger he is not he was blown away by nagatos st and 6tailed naruto deflected it casually and he could cause a block level blast from just banging his fist on the ground gai is not a freakin tank gates donot enhance durability base gai who couldnt catch a fleeing deidara is faster then kcm naruto base gai who could not push base kisame is faster then kcm naruto....


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## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Pretty much this he couldnt even pressure edo madara with that juubi jin blitzing speed lol if he possesed that speed he would blitz edo madara no problem and not get caught by freaking mokuton branches..he was in awe of bm narutos speed he was never known as the fastest shinobi even though people like kakashi and yammato knew of his 7th gate....madara was playing with him once he got serious he backhanded gais fastest attack he even blocked 8th gate gais first elephant step but nope dat 7th gate speed



I've already addressed and rebuttal the point youre agreeing with so I won't repeat that.

and I've already done the same to guy being impressed by bm naruto speed as well so I won't repeat that either.

But about guy not being known as the fastest in the lands.. Only a few ppl knew of guy as being the fastest and none of them were there to tell raikage he was wrong.

And no one is saying guy is faster than juubidara(well star might be but I'm not) but what I was saying for guys seventh gate speed feat against juubidara is that he can pressure and put juubidara on the defensive with his seventh Gate speed. The same juubidara who can react and counter a sm minato hiriashin'n in with a rasengan. Since he can pressure someone with these speed feats he'd catch nagato NP.


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## LostSelf (Feb 2, 2015)

Actually, if we use straight feats. KCM Naruto was having a lot of troubles hitting Obito, who was phasing through all his attacks.

However, 2-3r gated Gai outrunned the black balls that were fast enough to prevent Obito's Kamui. So... So..


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## Sferr (Feb 2, 2015)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Bansho Tennin, followed by Human path soul RIP = GG





The moment Nagato uses Bansho Tennin, he loses.


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## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> madara freakin used outerpath hax against naruto ...gai didnt land one hit one madara push back my ass he has normal durability deva path was weaker before the other were downed and nagato is much stronger then deva kcm naruto is overall stronger and faster then 6tailed naruto but more durable and stronger he is not he was blown away by nagatos st and 6tailed naruto deflected it casually and he could cause a block level blast from just banging his fist on the ground gai is not a freakin tank gates donot enhance durability base gai who couldnt catch a fleeing deidara is faster then kcm naruto base gai who could not push base kisame is faster then kcm naruto....



Madara still overpowered bsm naruto as we seen naruto was able to provide some sort of resistance so its not like it was a hax where it bypasses physical strength. Because we were shown it wasn't.

Never claimed guy landed hits on juubidara but he did push him back.. Because madara was moving back from guys strikes.. 

Guy in lower forms of gates tanked a gudodama so no he doesn't have normal durability.

Yeah and it was just Deva path when he did so yo sixth tailed naruto as well. As well as the naruto clones which also withstood this same st. Now I do know that nagato is stronger in his st.. But we don't know by how much so unless you can quantify it then we gotta go with what we know.

You claim again that sixth tails is more durable and stronger than kcm naruto but what is this actually based on?

Gates does enhance his chakra flow and we know the more chakra rushing through ones body the better there tanking abilities are. It makes all aspects of them better. This is why kcm naruto is not just faster but stronger than his uncompleted tailed forms.

And your using a low end beginning of part 2 feat to try and override a direct comparison war arc fear? Surely I don't have to explain the flawed logic in this.

Also you should make your points spaced out so they are easier to read and address.. Because your post is all over the place and generally just looks like shit/no offence.


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## Patrick (Feb 2, 2015)

Sad to see this section go to shit even more now the manga ended. The wankers don't even try to bring up arguments anymore.


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## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Actually, if we use straight feats. KCM Naruto was having a lot of troubles hitting Obito, who was phasing through all his attacks.
> 
> However, 2-3r gated Gai outrunned the black balls that were fast enough to prevent Obito's Kamui. So... So..



And also this.


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## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

Patrick said:


> Sad to see this section go to shit even more now the manga ended. The wankers don't even try to bring up arguments anymore.



The irony of this post is too much.. You realize you're doing exactly what you're claiming the "wankers" are doing, right?


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

SSMG said:


> I've already addressed and rebuttal the point youre agreeing with so I won't repeat that.
> 
> and I've already done the same to guy being impressed by bm naruto speed as well so I won't repeat that either.
> 
> ...



I am not saying 7 Gates Guy is faster than Juubidara. 

Just for you to know.


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## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> I am not saying 7 Gates Guy is faster than Juubidara.
> 
> Just for you to know.



No worries man I just hasn't read all of your posts so I wasn't sure.


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## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Actually, if we use straight feats. KCM Naruto was having a lot of troubles hitting Obito, who was phasing through all his attacks.
> 
> However, 2-3r gated Gai outrunned the black balls that were fast enough to prevent Obito's Kamui. So... So..



7


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## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

SSMG said:


> No worries man I just hasn't read all of your posts so I wasn't sure.



Ok man.


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## Icegaze (Feb 2, 2015)

Base gai is KCM naruto speed level ?? 
SSMG and his all mighty one dimensional thinking 
So I guess base gai is faster than the Ei despite Kishi the author of the manga firmly disagreeing with this 
but hey why not use 1 panel to judge all that 

What base gai did with obito could causally be replicated by base bee it doesn't suddenly put base bee on Ei speed level at all


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## sabre320 (Feb 2, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Madara still overpowered bsm naruto as we seen naruto was able to provide some sort of resistance so its not like it was a hax where it bypasses physical strength. Because we were shown it wasn't.
> 
> Never claimed guy landed hits on juubidara but he did push him back.. Because madara was moving back from guys strikes..
> 
> ...



gai tanked guodama now is there any limit to ur fantasy


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## LostSelf (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> 7



It's just like happened with Minato, his handspeed faster than Kamui sometimes is trolled by Kishi. The same happened to Gai there


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## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Base gai is KCM naruto speed level ??
> SSMG and his all mighty one dimensional thinking
> So I guess base gai is faster than the Ei despite Kishi the author of the manga firmly disagreeing with this
> but hey why not use 1 panel to judge all that
> ...



 Interview of kishi disageeeing with that statement please.

And scan of KB being able to do that please.

@sabre concession accepted.


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## Icegaze (Feb 2, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Interview of kishi disageeeing with that statement please.
> 
> And scan of KB being able to do that please.
> 
> @sabre concession accepted.



Ei said am the fastest man alive 
That obviously includes base gai who we had seen several times before that 

KB reacted to hirashin 
Hirahsin>>>> kamui 

Go on and argue otherwise please 

No but seriously use your brain 

Do you honestly believe base gai is faster than Ei??

Then why on wart could shouten kisame even remotely see gai move 

Interview of Kishi saying gai improved if you think by war arc in base he was faster than his beginning of part 2 self


Wtf man when did gai tank juudara black balls ??? Gai was warned to not touch them or he will die 

I take it you are delusional enough to believe gai has durability beyond Edo tensei who can't even regen from it 

Also naruto was the first on panel to tank it hence Judara surprise otherwise he wouldn't need to mention naruto could touch it if gai had been doing that


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## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Ei said am the fastest man alive
> That obviously includes base gai who we had seen several times before that
> 
> KB reacted to hirashin
> ...



So ei stated that.. Not kishi. 
You do realize authors have characters in theirs stories boost themselves up, be misinformed and outright lie?

Also prove that raikage knew of guy let alone of his speed.

KB reacted to minato during minatos conversation. 
Unless you have a scan of bee moving his arm the instant minato appeared. Which you won't have because its not in the manga.

Guys speed against kisame was low end feats compared to his war arc feats. 
But are you insinuating kisame wouldn't be able to react to ei? Yet he reacted to bee who your logic in this very post says he is faster than ei.  And nothing states that kisame lost reaction time while using the 30% clone. So following your logic kisame can react to ei.

I don't need an interview of kishi since I never claimed kishi stated such a fact. But it is shown in the manga by the feat of guy out pacing kcm naruto.

And actions always speak louder than words.

@ your edit.

He tanked em when he saved kakashi from them.

Edo tensei doesn't improve one durability genius.

Aagain actions speak louder than words. Guy save kakashi from a gudodama and was in the epicenter of the explosion. Unless you think they blow up from just touching the air it blew up on guys back and he tanked it.


----------



## Icegaze (Feb 2, 2015)

SSMG said:


> So ei stated that.. Not kishi.
> You do realize authors have characters in theirs stories boost themselves up, be misinformed and outright lie?
> 
> Also prove that raikage knew of guy let alone of his speed.
> ...



wow!!! What an idiotic statement 
Who decides what Ei says and doesn't say 
Ah fuck it ignore list 
That statement  was simply too fuckinf dumb 

Tsunade was there and didn't disagree prove tsunade doesn't know gai a ninja from her village 
While being the bloody hokage 

On panel KB reacted to minato attack you have no scanda to prove been moved his arm while minato was talking 
Hirashin faster than kamui end of that discussion 

Prove naruto was using his full speed when they all had a plan to use combination attacks 
Wouldn't that be fuckinf stupid 

Or you think Eo goes full speed when trying to use lariat with his brother ???

Oh Jesus you are killing me


----------



## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> wow!!! What an idiotic statement
> Who decides what Ei says and doesn't say
> Ah fuck it ignore list
> That statement  was simply too fuckinf dumb
> ...



So you don't understand how author have characters be boosting, misinformed and lie? Lol you must be new to works of fiction. It happens all the time and was shown in the very chapter that ei was making a baseless claim.


Prove Tsunade does know of guys full speed. Especially since the actions show guy being faster than eis speed. Because you're asking me to prove a negative which was never in the manga. Surely you'd know this if u actually read the manga.
But also just because she didn't disrupt it doesn't mean much. She didn't dispute naruto being faster either and he was shown to be so that doesn't mean jack. But according to you shed know all about naruto better speed since she's his kage as well.

On panel KB reacted the page after minato appeared you mean?  Since he wasn't shown to react until that point that is the earliest we have to go on that he did in fact react.

It was not a coordinated attack naruto rushed in by himself for. The coordinated attacks didn't come to play until killer bee threw them.

Has ei ever used the tag team lariat in v2 in tandem with bee? To my knowledge he does not.

And yes I am killing your shitty arguments I'm glad we agree on at least something.


----------



## sabre320 (Feb 2, 2015)

SSMG said:


> So you don't understand how author have characters be boosting, misinformed and lie? Lol you must be new to works of fiction. It happens all the time and was shown in the very chapter that ei was making a baseless claim.
> 
> 
> Prove Tsunade does know of guys full speed. Especially since the actions show guy being faster than eis speed. Because you're asking me to prove a negative which was never in the manga. Surely you'd know this if u actually read the manga.
> ...



Even yammato knew of hirudara and that can only be performed in 7th gate...tsunade the hokage wouldnt know about the abilities and capabilities of one of her strongest fighters who she sends on missions based on his capabilities yeah

Just tell me this if gai can tank guodama why did minato warn gai not to touch them warp them with ftg and kakashi kamui the guodama sheild


----------



## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Even yammato knew of hirudara and that can only be performed in 7th gate...tsunade the hokage wouldnt know about the abilities and capabilities of one of her strongest fighters who she sends on missions based on his capabilities yeah
> 
> Just tell me this if gai can tank guodama why did minato warn gai not to touch them warp them with ftg and kakashi kamui the guodama sheild



Yamato knew of guys hirudora. I never claimed Tsunade didn't know of hirudora. But Tsunade may not have known guys full speed. She may have and just kept her mouth shit too. Either way her not speaking up or not knowing doesn't prove guy is slower than ei.

And maybe minato is stupid? Actions speak louder than words so that really doesn't concern me.


----------



## Dominus (Feb 2, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Seven Gated Guy never landed a single blow on Madara. Not only that he was bitchslapped like everyone else.



I was dead serious when I wrote that... and I still am. Gai blitzes.


----------



## RBL (Feb 2, 2015)

every time this icegaze dude comes to a thread it ends up being gai vs Ei.

Ei is a poser of taijutsu dude, even six gated gai would make him cry like a bitch, with mid-diff at MAX, Gai is severely underrated, Gai doesn't need to go all 7-8 gated in order to defeat strong oponents.

GAARA : HIS MOVEMENT'S AREN'T HUMAAAAN, OH MR GAI, please show me more.

 alright.



OT :with the hype of mobile nagato, i don't really see Gai winning, by feats at least for me, Gai wins, but i don't wanna be a fanboy. what i know is that nagato can't win with low-diff that's for sure.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 2, 2015)

Dominus said:


> I was dead serious when I wrote that... and I still am. Gai blitzes.


And he still gets bitchslapped Dominus. He did NOTHING in Seven Gates to Juudara. Yet...just because he fought him fruitlessly, you honestly expect him to be stronger than Nagato who has an automatic defense?


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And he still gets bitchslapped Dominus. He did NOTHING in Seven Gates to Juudara. Yet...just because he fought him fruitlessly, you honestly expect him to be stronger than Nagato who has an automatic defense?



Nagato doesnt have any automatic defense. Thats your fanfic right there. 

7 Gates Guy pressured Juubidara with his speed, surprised Juubidara with his speed and used Hirudora, thanks to his speed. Nagato is not even close to Juubidara in movement speed and reaction speed. Therefore, he gets blitzed by 7 Gates Guy. *Its logical, its a common sense, its based on Manga.*


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 2, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And he still gets bitchslapped Dominus. He did NOTHING in Seven Gates to Juudara. Yet...just because he fought him fruitlessly, you honestly expect him to be stronger than Nagato who has an automatic defense?



And i also think the starting distance is perfect for Guy. Because he surprised Juubidara with his speed from a very long distance. I cant say, how big that distance was, but it was still very big. Tens of meters for sure.

Nagato doesnt have feats to suggest he can react to someone who can pressure a Juubi Jin with speed. 

And it doesnt matter at all that Guy did nothing to Juubidara. Guy surprised him with his speed and pressured him. Juubidara was unable to counter attack Guy until he used handseal to create Hirudora. 

That feat is great, since before that, nobody could do such a thing to Juubi's Jin.


----------



## sabre320 (Feb 2, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Yamato knew of guys hirudora. I never claimed Tsunade didn't know of hirudora. But Tsunade may not have known guys full speed. She may have and just kept her mouth shit too. Either way her not speaking up or not knowing doesn't prove guy is slower than ei.
> 
> And maybe minato is stupid? Actions speak louder than words so that really doesn't concern me.



hirudara is gais fastest punch and tsunade didnt know his speed.....and she kept her mouth shut just cuz you know lol and kakashi kamuid the guodama sheild cuz you know hes dumb too


----------



## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And he still gets bitchslapped Dominus. He did NOTHING in Seven Gates to Juudara. Yet...just because he fought him fruitlessly, you honestly expect him to be stronger than Nagato who has an automatic defense?



I see youve beat me to the punch wanderer here but ill still say this.

So ssm12 you keep spouting this same bs even though its already been rebutted?Talk about close mindedness.

But again juubidara can effortlessly react and counter sm minatos hirashin rasengan attempt. He can't do so to guys punches. Guy will therefore be able to blitz nagato who is slower than sm minato.

Also proof of this auto defense please? Because you clearly just made that up.


----------



## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> and kakashi kamuid the guodama sheild cuz you know hes dumb too



 Because that was part of the plan made up by guess who? Minato.

And to your edit again just because Tsunade didn't speak up doesn't mean squat. I've already addressed this notion from you. 
I'll say it once more nice and slow so even you understand.

Actions
Speak
Louder 
Than
Words(or lack thereof words).

I do hope I said it slow enough so that even you can understand.


----------



## sabre320 (Feb 2, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Because that was part of the plan made up by guess who? Minato.
> 
> And to your edit again just because Tsunade didn't speak up doesn't mean squat. I've already addressed this notion from you.
> I'll say it once more nice and slow so even you understand.
> ...



yes yes so you keep saying any argument against you is refuted and dosent mean squat lolyes yes its all minatos fault


----------



## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> yes yes so you keep saying any argument against you is refuted and dosent mean squat lolyes yes its all minatos fault



When I refute what the other person says and they don't address my post at all but continue saying the same thing again yes that is me refuting it and them conceding the point. You've done this multiple times itt. 

And yeah if minato was misinformed or just plain wrong about his assement then that means his plan would be based off such misguided principles as well.


----------



## Dominus (Feb 2, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And he still gets bitchslapped Dominus. He did NOTHING in Seven Gates to Juudara. Yet...just because he fought him fruitlessly, you honestly expect him to be stronger than Nagato who has an automatic defense?



[sp]Gai[/sp]
[sp]blitzes[/sp]
[sp]GG.[/sp]
[sp]And I'm still *completely serious* by the way.[/sp]


----------



## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> It's just like happened with Minato, his handspeed faster than Kamui sometimes is trolled by Kishi. The same happened to Gai there



So, perhaps you can show us when Gai did attack obito? 
(even with 3 others' help )


----------



## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> So, perhaps you can show us when Gai did attack obito?
> (even with 3 others' help )



He's referring to guy being able to intercept the gudodama that was out speeding obitos kamui. The samestyle of gudodamas that got placed on minato during a hiriashin usage by a weaker gudodama user mind you.

But guy went up against obitos kamui touch trolled that as well seeing as he reacted and blocked the attempt. Whereas a sppedster like kcm naruto could not.


----------



## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

I think he is referring to the fact that Minato threw the Kunai to Madara's feet, before Kamui could work even though Kakashi started first. 



> The samestyle of gudodamas that got placed on minato during a hiriashin usage by a weaker gudodama user mind you.



The same Minato how outpaced both 8th Gate Gai, and Madara's Gedu-Damas, mind you. 
but anyway, I don't want this to turn out to be Minato & Gai. You know how salty people get when it comes to it.

I bit they produce more salt than the Dead Sea.


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> So, perhaps you can show us when Gai did attack obito?
> (even with 3 others' help )



That's just another proof of his speed. As you can see, KCM Naruto fought Obito and was about to be warped in a two-steps maneuver.

Minato fought Obito and was about to be warped in a two-steps maneuver when he reacted to his Kunai slash and grabbed his arm, plus, he was about to warp Minato again when he chained him.

Gai, on the other hand, fought Obito in mid-air, wich is in a disadvantage compared to KCM Naruto and Minato, and lasted longer, could maneuver and force him to phase.

If Gai was able to do something Minato without Hiraishin and KCM Naruto couldn't, then it's just  logical how he should be able to move faster than the black balls, as he outrunned them in canon, if he, in base, did what speedesters couldn't.

.


----------



## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> That's just another proof of his speed. As you can see, KCM Naruto fought Obito and was about to be warped in a two-steps maneuver.
> 
> Minato fought Obito and was about to be warped in a two-steps maneuver when he reacted to his Kunai slash and grabbed his arm, plus, he was about to warp Minato again when he chained him.
> 
> ...



So, long story short, you couldn't find a time where Gai attacked Obito?


----------



## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> I think he is referring to the fact that Minato threw the Kunai to Madara's feet, before Kamui could work even though Kakashi started first.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh if he is my mistake but I'm pretty sure he's talking about what I said.

And minato only got to grab the gudodamas because of sixth hate lees arm strength. He could have never of thrown the kunai that fast that far himself.
And guy in a lower form of gates already outpaced the gudodamas so minato did that for literally no reason.

And since guy moved a few feet during minatos usage of ftg that means guy outpaced Minato. Since its space time and there should be no movement occurring at all.
And sure sure excuses excuses...


----------



## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

> Oh if he is my mistake but I'm pretty sure he's talking about what I said.


It'a alright. 




> And minato only got to grab the gudodamas because of sixth hate lees arm strength.


I do not know what is that suppose to mean... 



> He could have never of thrown the kunai that fast that far himself.


He already did. 



> And guy in a lower form of gates already outpaced the gudodamas so minato did that for literally no reason.


Sure.  


> And since guy moved a few feet during minatos usage of ftg that means guy outpaced Minato. Since its space time and there should be no movement occurring at all.
> And sure sure excuses excuses...



Sure.


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> So, long story short, you couldn't find a time where Gai attacked Obito?



There's no need to. We have comparisons with the same enemy and we know who did better. One with clones, one with surprise attacks at close range and one in mid-air .


----------



## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

> There's no need to.


So, you basically can't. Thanks. 

Edit:
I can't remember the word they use before they say "----- accepted" 
What was it?


----------



## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> It'a alright.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It means he could only intercept madaras orbs from that far away because Lee threw the kunai.

And when did minato do that?

And glad you agree guy is faster than minato.


----------



## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Sure. Just like how chojiro > BZ > JJ SM Madara with 3 eyes and the tree > JJ SM Madara with 1 eye > 8th Gate Gai.
> 
> We all could agree with that.



You can't be serious with this Hussain...


----------



## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

SSMG said:


> It means he could only intercept madaras orbs from that far away because Lee threw the kunai.
> 
> And when did minato do that?
> 
> And glad you agree guy is faster than minato.


Sure. 


SSMG said:


> You can't be serious with this Hussain...



A wise man once said


> We have comparisons with the same enemy and we know who did better.



Learn the wisdom from its people.


----------



## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Sure.
> 
> 
> A wise man once said
> ...



Kay. I k ow ur just messing around but I'll disprove that comparison because I'm cool like that.

Well a few reasons that is flawed is because bz was shown to not care at all about the mist kids attack. He took it and was like meh I'll use this opportunity to  slip away real ninja like.

Madara was just caught off guard by BZ because he didn't think he was going to get attacked by his supposed partner. Its like in a bar brawl when you accidently get punched in the face by a weaker buddy you may have been able to block it but didn't because you're not expecting him to hit ya.


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> So, you basically can't. Thanks.
> 
> Edit:
> I can't remember the word they use before they say "----- accepted"
> What was it?



I don't know what you are trying to say. Gai attacked Obito several times during their skirmish. That's why there's no need to, because we all remember i.


----------



## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Edit:
> I can't remember the word they use before they say "----- accepted"
> What was it?



For the word you're looking for I believe you're talking about consession.


----------



## Trojan (Feb 2, 2015)

Yes! It is that one! 


I will see if I can rep you now. lol

Edit:
Done.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 2, 2015)

Dominus said:


> [sp]Gai[/sp]
> [sp]blitzes[/sp]
> [sp]GG.[/sp]
> [sp]And I'm still *completely serious* by the way.[/sp]


And you haven't proven it Dominus. You're not even debating, you're ignoring evidence to claim Guy 'blitzes'.


----------



## SSMG (Feb 2, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And you haven't proven it Dominus. You're not even debating, you're ignoring evidence to claim Guy 'blitzes'.



You can't be the one to tell others they ignore evidence.

You've ignored basically everyone who has addressed your points.


----------



## Empathy (Feb 2, 2015)

Seriously guys? Dominus is joking.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 2, 2015)

Empathy said:


> Seriously guys? Dominus is joking.



I'm surprised he fell for it this long tho it is SSM12.


----------



## FlamingRain (Feb 3, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Preparing Hirudora for a panel obviously gave enough time for Madara to react.



That can't be it, though, because Madara didn't move until after Gai made the seal, not _when_ he made the seal.

Gai was already launching the actual attack when Madara swung, therefore the fact that Gai still got interrupted before he could complete it means that Madara was moving faster than Gai even when the latter was in the middle of his fastest strike.


----------



## SSMG (Feb 3, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> That can't be it, though, because Madara didn't move until after Gai made the seal, not _when_ he made the seal.
> 
> Gai was already launching the actual attack when Madara swung, therefore the fact that Gai still got interrupted before he could complete it means that Madara was moving faster than Gai even when the latter was in the middle of his fastest strike.


 Madara not moving until after the hand seal doesn't refute what he said. Madara would have to react before he can physical act. So making the handseals still gave madara time to react and then counter. As opposed to with just guys punches and kicks madara could only react and block. And there's a big difference between being abke to react and counter as opposed to being able to react and block. The latter is as you said faster than their attack but the latter only needs to be fast enough to get in the way of the attack.

So therefore it wasn't guys fastest punch. tleast not in total execution.


----------



## Dominus (Feb 3, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And you haven't proven it Dominus. You're not even debating, you're ignoring evidence to claim Guy 'blitzes'.



[sp=You can't even see that I'm serious][/sp]


----------



## Icegaze (Feb 3, 2015)

Bruce Lee said:


> every time this icegaze dude comes to a thread it ends up being gai vs Ei.



mind proving that? 



> Ei is a poser of taijutsu dude, even six gated gai would make him cry like a bitch, with mid-diff at MAX, Gai is severely underrated, Gai doesn't need to go all 7-8 gated in order to defeat strong oponents.


 
ah another one of those type of posters. lol 



> GAARA : HIS MOVEMENT'S AREN'T HUMAAAAN, OH MR GAI, please show me more.
> 
> alright.



the same was said about genin lee. his movements not being human. so thats hardly a compliment 



> OT :with the hype of mobile nagato, i don't really see Gai winning, by feats at least for me, Gai wins, but i don't wanna be a fanboy. what i know is that nagato can't win with low-diff that's for sure.



Nagato wins. with whatever difficulty anyone cares to place it on. the end result is the same.


----------



## FlamingRain (Feb 3, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Madara not moving until after the hand seal doesn't refute what he said. Madara would have to react before he can physical act.



That isn't pertinent, because you can't physically act faster than you yourself can perceive. Madara's physical act only took place as Gai was throwing the strike (the tiger was already going- so his punch _was_ in full execution) and it still beat him to the punch, meaning he was physically going faster. As such we can tell that he never had a real issue reacting to Gai's movements, because every single other thing Gai does is even slower than Hirudora.

He blocked because he didn't care to do otherwise for the most part.


----------



## Icegaze (Feb 3, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> That isn't pertinent, because you can't physically act faster than you yourself can perceive. Madara's physical act only took place as Gai was throwing the strike (the tiger was already going- so his punch _was_ in full execution) and it still beat him to the punch, meaning he was physically going faster. As such we can tell that he never had a real issue reacting to Gai's movements, because every single other thing Gai does is even slower than Hirudora.
> 
> He blocked because he didn't care to do otherwise for the most part.



10000% agreed. gai says its his fastest punch. Fans disagree. i guess gai himself doesnt know his fastest attack. 

Gai fastest possible attack in 7 gate = Sm minato attack speed. which really isnt anything a rinnegan user cant counter. especially 1 with the ability to use an omidirectional gravity trolling technique 

unlike juudara nagato wouldnt move half an inch backwards after trolling hirudora. considering what it does to FRS with no effort


----------



## sanninme rikudo (Feb 3, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> But he couldn't sense as well as the fact that Susanoo was in front of him anyways.
> 
> But seriously? Nagato annihilates Gai?
> 
> Well shit. Waiting for more responses before I feel like a retard.


Yea sorry my man but Nagato sweeps him. Unless guy goes 8 gates he's outta here!


----------



## sabre320 (Feb 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> 10000% agreed. gai says its his fastest punch. Fans disagree. i guess gai himself doesnt know his fastest attack.
> 
> Gai fastest possible attack in 7 gate = Sm minato attack speed. which really isnt anything a rinnegan user cant counter. especially 1 with the ability to use an omidirectional gravity trolling technique
> 
> unlike juudara nagato wouldnt move half an inch backwards after trolling hirudora. considering what it does to FRS with no effort



pretty much this he backhanded his fastest punch...madara pericieved minato as a threat because of senjutsu and shut him down once he got serious he did the same to gai..how is this dude going to get pressured by 7th gate gai when he blocked 8th gate gais 1st step when 8th gate is a monumental powerup is beyond me..


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 3, 2015)

> the same was said about genin lee. his movements not being human. so thats hardly a compliment



From a kage-level shinobi? Its great that Kazekage, who never said such a thing about Raikage, by the way, was so impressed by Guy.



> Nagato wins. with whatever difficulty anyone cares to place it on. the end result is the same.



With that level of stupidity in your posts, its very hard to take you serious. But i'll try.

And i'll ask you a quastion...

*Who has faster movement speed and reaction speed - Juubidara, or Nagato?*

I'll wait for the answer.



> That isn't pertinent, because you can't physically act faster than you yourself can perceive. Madara's physical act only took place as Gai was throwing the strike (the tiger was already going- so his punch was in full execution) and it still beat him to the punch, meaning he was physically going faster. As such we can tell that he never had a real issue reacting to Gai's movements, because every single other thing Gai does is even slower than Hirudora.
> 
> He blocked because he didn't care to do otherwise for the most part.



Juubidara knew Guy is going with some technique because he made a hand seal. So he put his staff in front of Guy because of that. I wonder what would have happened if handseal wasnt needed for Hirudora. 

Also, we dont know by what extent Hirudora is faster than other 7 gates attacks. So Juubidara blocking Hirudora doesnt prove anything. Juubidara still was unable to blitz Guy the same way he blitzed Minato, plus, his face expressions already makes me doubt Juubidara wasnt serious with Guy - Guy surprised him with speed. And Juubidara was pressured by Guy with a taijutsu. 

And whats a reason for Juubidara to not be serious in that instance? 



> 10000% agreed. gai says its his fastest punch. Fans disagree. i guess gai himself doesnt know his fastest attack.
> 
> Gai fastest possible attack in 7 gate = Sm minato attack speed. which really isnt anything a rinnegan user cant counter. especially 1 with the ability to use an omidirectional gravity trolling technique
> 
> unlike juudara nagato wouldnt move half an inch backwards after trolling hirudora. considering what it does to FRS with no effort



LOL, why than Juubidara was unable to blitz Guy and was pressured by him? And how Juubidara blocking Hirudora proves anything (read what i wrote above)?

Guy speedblitz Nagato easily. Nagato simply doesnt have reaction speed to do anything before Guy kills him or knocks him out.


----------



## SSMG (Feb 3, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> That isn't pertinent, because you can't physically act faster than you yourself can perceive. Madara's physical act only took place as Gai was throwing the strike (the tiger was already going- so his punch _was_ in full execution) and it still beat him to the punch, meaning he was physically going faster. As such we can tell that he never had a real issue reacting to Gai's movements, because every single other thing Gai does is even slower than Hirudora.
> 
> He blocked because he didn't care to do otherwise for the most part.



Yeah of course you cant act faster than you can react. But madara was able to react with more time to execute the following action due to guy making the hands seal. 

Guy made the hand seal madara reacted and then hirudora was actually launched while madara simultaneously cut in on the attack with his staff. So yes madara was faster than the hirudora we both agree here.

But he wasn't able to do such an action against guys barrage of punches and kicks he could only back up and block and therefore guys seventh gate punches and kicks are faster than this particular hirudora.  Because as always actions speak louder than words. We've been shown this time and time again in the manga.

Edit not like this really matters though because nagato would be destroyed by the seventh gate barrage and or the hirudora.


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 3, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Yeah of course you cant act faster than you can react. But madara was able to react with more time to execute the following action due to guy making the hands seal.
> 
> Guy made the hand seal madara reacted and then hirudora was actually launched while madara simultaneously cut in on the attack with his staff. So yes madara was faster than the hirudora we both agree here.
> 
> ...



Well, he kinda "blocked" Hirudora with his staff. He did with Hirudora the same thing he did with other Guys attacks. Hirudora just had AoE effect, plus Guy suffered from Gates side effects. 

But anyway, he surprised Juubidara with his speed from a *long* distance and, well, you know the rest. 

Even Edo Madara is much faster than Nagato. Juubidara is many tiers above Nagato in movement speed and reaction speed. And 7 Gates Guy did such a thing... 

Guy speedblitz. He will break Nagato's face in a moment.


----------



## SSMG (Feb 3, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Well, he kinda "blocked" Hirudora with his staff. He did with Hirudora the same thing he did with other Guys attacks. Hirudora just had AoE effect, plus Guy suffered from Gates side effects.
> 
> But anyway, he surprised Juubidara with his speed from a *long* distance and, well, you know the rest.
> 
> ...



Well I'd say he countered it more than blocked. So say like when someone throws a heavy right hook I'd step in with a left straight to the chops or even to the shoulder before there punch coonects.. Something lime that.

But your right as well madara blocked the hirudora and the backfire of the exploding hirudora in guys face is what fucked him up.
But yeah everything else I agree 100% with. Guy makes healthy nagato a cripple all over again.


----------



## Icegaze (Feb 3, 2015)

i would say though that the second gate. heal gate does allow for extreme recovery. kishi didnt elaborate on that. 
gai aint too bad, but ST is too convenient a jutsu. if that was restricted. gai would win with difficulty  nagato 

The cool down however isnt so easy to exploit when 5 other paths can stall for at least a few seconds. 

do note though that asura path essentially makes nagato a tank. seeing that he could take a V2 hit with no damage at all, and that was without asura path.

it is to note though that even genin lee gaara did make the comment about their movement being human. However i am sure everyone knows that those movements by part 2. really isnt fast. base killer bee makes such look like stand still 

"seems I'm not the only one developing new jutsu"

What i am trying to see is gaara making that comment about gai, really isnt that impressive. inhuman movement is human, but as far as hyperboles are concerned, someone saying you are impossibly fast says more.


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> i would say though that the second gate. heal gate does allow for extreme recovery. kishi didnt elaborate on that.
> gai aint too bad, but ST is too convenient a jutsu. if that was restricted. gai would win with difficulty  nagato
> 
> The cool down however isnt so easy to exploit when 5 other paths can stall for at least a few seconds.
> ...



I want you to prove that Nagato has reaction speed fast enough to react to 7 Gates Guy and use any of 6 Paths against 7 Gates Guy.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Feb 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> i would say though that the second gate. heal gate does allow for extreme recovery. kishi didnt elaborate on that.
> gai aint too bad, but ST is too convenient a jutsu. if that was restricted. gai would win with difficulty  nagato
> 
> The cool down however isnt so easy to exploit when 5 other paths can stall for at least a few seconds.
> ...



 Except Asura Path isn't as fast as Juubidara.

 Do you have any evidence that suggests Nagato has reactions or speed on par with Juubidara? 

 If you're seriously suggesting V2 Lariat is incredibly strong, you're sadly mistaken as Nagato used Preta Path. Even Kisamehada could withstand V2 Bee's attacks as he had chakra absorption. It's really not an impressive feat at all.


----------



## Icegaze (Feb 4, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Except Asura Path isn't as fast as Juubidara.
> 
> Do you have any evidence that suggests Nagato has reactions or speed on par with Juubidara?
> 
> If you're seriously suggesting V2 Lariat is incredibly strong, you're sadly mistaken as Nagato used Preta Path. Even Kisamehada could withstand V2 Bee's attacks as he had chakra absorption. It's really not an impressive feat at all.



juuudara beat gai fastest punch with the same ease he handled minato. Juudara isnt 7th gate gai bench mark. 

asura wouldnt need to be as fast to take a hit. never said he will block 

nagato doesnt need reactions. any idiot using replusive force can push gai back. he needs no movement or even the ability to track gai. 


what people again fail to realize is juudara wasnt pushed back, he blocked the hits. the got serious and trolled gai fastest punch. so unless juudara got faster mid battle it seems obvious he wasnt serious when gai initially attacked him 

Kisame had his chest blown out. the same kisame who at 50% of his ablity was simply chared up from hirudora. yh sure V2 larait isnt a strong technique  

ST will send gai flying . that gives nagato more than enough time to come up with a plan of attack 


7th gate gai is nothing to juudara. juudara didnt do any move or jutsu. its crazy how people think thats 7th gate gai bench mark. 

yet in 8th gate which is horrendously superior, madara was still able to react to gai. again unless juudara got faster. 7th gate gai was nothing at all to juudara


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 4, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> juuudara beat gai fastest punch with the same ease he handled minato. Juudara isnt 7th gate gai bench mark.
> 
> asura wouldnt need to be as fast to take a hit. never said he will block
> 
> ...



Facepalm. 

Nagato *NEEDS* reaction speed to use his Paths just in time to beat Guy. But he *DOESNT HAVE* reaction speed to do so. Even base Guy is above Nagato in reaction speed. Edo Madara is also far above Nagato in reaction speed. 7 Gates Guy and Juubidara speedblitz Nagato effortlessly.

Any proof Juubidara wasnt serious? From his face expressions, it is obvious Juubidara *WAS* serious. And the fact he countered Hirudora proves nothing. Guy made a hand seal, so Juubidara knew Guy is going to use something. Also, Hirudora isnt *much *faster than base 7 Gates punches. Faster, but not much faster. What is the reason for Juubidara to not be serious there and hold himself back?

And are you sure Juubidara blocked Hirudora from the start? Its like an air cannon, so he could use his staff to weaken Hirudora's effect that already hit him.

You may ignore me and write nonsense i already countered, but boy, i can do that all day long.

7 Gates Guy obviously speedblitz.


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 4, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Except Asura Path isn't as fast as Juubidara.
> 
> Do you have any evidence that suggests Nagato has reactions or speed on par with Juubidara?



Yes, mind reactions jutsu activates quite fast. We've seen evidences of this quite often. Itachi was able to use Susano'o in order to protect himself from Kirin.

Sasuke was able to pull Susano'o before Minato in KCM could grab a Bijuu Bomb that Obito put in his right shoulder. Considering that KCM upgraded base Naruto from fodder to V2 Raikage level of speed and that Minato in base was already fast enough to throw a Kunai in the air before Ei could get at him, teleport, teleport back and grab that Kunai before Ei advanced an inch. Imagine a KCM Minato. Yet, Sasuke was still able to form Susano'o to protect himself and Naruto before Minato touched his right shoulder in KCM. Something even a normal human beign can do in less than a second.

Nagato can activate Shinra Tensei, wich is another instantaneous jutsu in activation speed and faster than Susano'o.


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 4, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Yes, mind reactions jutsu activates quite fast. We've seen evidences of this quite often. Itachi was able to use Susano'o in order to protect himself from Kirin.
> 
> Sasuke was able to pull Susano'o before Minato in KCM could grab a Bijuu Bomb that Obito put in his right shoulder. Considering that KCM upgraded base Naruto from fodder to V2 Raikage level of speed and that Minato in base was already fast enough to throw a Kunai in the air before Ei could get at him, teleport, teleport back and grab that Kunai before Ei advanced an inch. Imagine a KCM Minato. Yet, Sasuke was still able to form Susano'o to protect himself and Naruto before Minato touched his right shoulder in KCM. Something even a normal human beign can do in less than a second.
> 
> Nagato can activate Shinra Tensei, wich is another instantaneous jutsu in activation speed and faster than Susano'o.



Both Sasuke and Itachi have sharingan. With precognition. Nagato doesnt have precognition and mind speed to react to 7 Gates Guy. 7 Gates Guy speedblitz him. 

And base Minato would have been blitzed by 7 Gates Guy as well, without teleporting anywhere. Simply because he cant react. Just like Nagato. 

And realy? Faster than Susanoo? I'd like to see a proof of that.


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 4, 2015)

Precognition didn't help Sasuke at all in watching the black ball in Minato's shoulder. Sasuke saw the ball _after_ Juubito warned Minato, therefore there was nothing to precog there. He just activated Susano'o faster than KCM Minato could move his hand.

Nor it helped Itachi in seeing the thunder, because he already saw it and it was coming in a linear direction. Sasuke react

Nagato on the other hand, has sensing. He just needs to sense Gai coming and send a blast in his direction


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 4, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Precognition didn't help Sasuke at all in watching the black ball in Minato's shoulder. Sasuke saw the ball _after_ Juubito warned Minato, therefore there was nothing to precog there. He just activated Susano'o faster than KCM Minato could move his hand.
> 
> Nor it helped Itachi in seeing the thunder, because he already saw it and it was coming in a linear direction. Sasuke react
> 
> Nagato on the other hand, has sensing. He just needs to sense Gai coming and send a blast in his direction



Nagato's sensing isnt a precognition. Its very different from the ability to see enemies movements before he made those movements.

Also, Nagato doesnt have reaction speed feats comparable to Sasuke's, or Itachi's reaction to Kirin. 

7 Gates Guy speedblitz Nagato.


----------



## Patrick (Feb 4, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Nagato's sensing isnt a precognition. Its very different from the ability to see enemies movements before he made those movements.
> 
> Also, Nagato doesnt have reaction speed feats comparable to Sasuke's, or Itachi's reaction to Kirin.
> 
> 7 Gates Guy speedblitz Nagato.



 is this guy serious?


----------



## Trojan (Feb 4, 2015)

Patrick said:


> is this guy serious?



the more you know....


----------



## Icegaze (Feb 4, 2015)

@patrick apparently he is
thats what happens when we have 1 dimensional readers. 

like how those who would say Gai is irrefutably faster than Ei because base gai was shown in the same panel as KCM naruto. 

it happens. 

As for this match up...7th gate gai isnt blitzing someone who doesnt need to move a muscle to attack. 
good luck coming back at him in under 5 seconds when you have just been sent flying. 

rinse and repeat. also repelling hirudora at point black would hurt gai to the point he wont be able to get up. 

this could end in seconds and not for nagato but for gai


----------



## Trojan (Feb 4, 2015)

Can Gai even defeat the 3 headed dog?


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 4, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> @patrick apparently he is
> thats what happens when we have 1 dimensional readers.
> 
> like how those who would say Gai is irrefutably faster than Ei because base gai was shown in the same panel as KCM naruto.
> ...



Nagato doesnt have reaction speed to use anything in this fight. His mind isnt fast enough to react to 7 Gates Guy's moves. If Guy can surprise Juubidara with his speed and push him back with a taijutsu, than Nagato doesnt stand a chance at all. 

I am not a one-dementional reader. I base my opinion on facts from manga and common sense. You are trying to deny an obvious fact.

Nagato doesnt have reaction speed even on base Guys, or Edo Madara's level, although he can easily beat base Guy though. But 7 Gates Guy is too fast, since he is fast enough to compete with Juubidara in CQC.



> Can Gai even defeat the 3 headed dog?



Nagato wont know what hits him. There will be no dog. 7 Gates Guy can speedblitz Nagato before Nagato can do anything.



> is this guy serious?



I am not taking you serious already. Your claims are based on nothing and are laughable.


----------



## Trojan (Feb 4, 2015)

> Nagato wont know what hit him. There will be no dog. Nagato can speedblitz Nagato before Nagato can do anything.



Go home, you're drunk.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Go home, you're drunk.



I will report you second time. Thanks. That was rude, although i did a mistake there. 

And by the way, who has faster reaction speed - Nagato, or Juubidara?


----------



## Trojan (Feb 4, 2015)

> I will report you second time. Thanks.



cry me a river.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> cry me a river.



I'll wait for you to answer my quastion.


----------



## bleakwinter (Feb 4, 2015)

The fact that this debate has gone on for 9 pages is almost frightening. 

Nagato reaches his hand into Gai's ass and pulls out his soul.


----------



## sabre320 (Feb 4, 2015)

when gai is activating 7th gate nagato uses shinra tensei launches him a mileaway... if gai isnt incapacitated nagato will have already summoned the chameleon cerberus and the bird he can hide in the chameleon while gai fruitlessly tries to kill cerberus gai has no sensing...he succumbs to the gates.. or he gets on the bird and bombards gai with st if he feels bloodlusted cst or ct...


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 4, 2015)

Mount Turtle. 




AfterNoonTiger


Nagato dies


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## Trojan (Feb 4, 2015)

irrelevant. Kisame took that heads on, and he did not die. lol


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> irrelevant. Kisame took that heads on, and he did not die. lol



What of it? 

Kisame is a Physical Monster unlike Nagato.


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## SSMG (Feb 4, 2015)

^ Not only that but kisame wasn't the intended target of that Hirudora. It was for the water sharks.


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## sabre320 (Feb 4, 2015)

SSMG said:


> ^ Not only that but kisame wasn't the intended target of that Hirudora. It was for the water sharks.



jesus frikkin christ


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## sabre320 (Feb 4, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> What of it?
> 
> Kisame is a Physical Monster unlike Nagato.



physical monster huh same guy who was coughing up blood from a punch from kcm naruto even through samaheda who was carved open by v2 bee lariat  even through samaheda the same lariat nagato took and in the exact same position as kisame at just wasn't that strong aoe dosent equal potency not to mention nagato can disperse the technique with st like with frs...not to mention nagato does not need to watch gai going into 7th gate he  can use st while he is in the process...


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## sanninme rikudo (Feb 4, 2015)

Weird i didn't think this thread would be debatable. There's nothing to debate boss sized ST and Gakido's barrier plus Cerberus. Guy isn't getting pass all that. Give it a rest!


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 4, 2015)

Kisame was gutted like a fish by V2 Bee's Lariat. Nagato took the same impact...and was unharmed. So Nagato's a bit more durable than Kisame who couldn't even be knocked out by Hirudora.


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## Icegaze (Feb 4, 2015)

And it carries on 
The delusional vs the not
Gai gets killed . Mid difficulty at the very best 

There is a solid gap in power here . Also note ST lolz at hirudora with utmost simplicity it's rude


----------



## Santoryu (Feb 4, 2015)

A healthy Nagato would win. He's far too vesatile and has the necessary firepower to take out his opponent.

All things considered, the gap in overall power between the two fighters isn't huge; even if Gai is restricted to the 7th gate. Gaara, the Kazekage that fought alongside the Raikage (one of the fastest characters in the series) noted that Gai's movements were "not human". Gai (in seventh gate) not landing a significant blow on Juubi-Madara is irrelevant, to evoke that reaction alone from such a formidable opponent is impressive. The difference between Juubi-Madara and Nagato is astronomical. Let's not try to downplay Gai's feats here.


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## Icegaze (Feb 4, 2015)

Santoryu said:


> A healthy Nagato would win. He's far too vesatile and has the necessary firepower to take out his opponent.
> 
> All things considered, the gap in overall power between the two fighters isn't huge; even if Gai is restricted to the 7th gate. Gaara, the Kazekage that fought alongside the Raikage (one of the fastest characters in the series) noted that Gai's movements were "not human". Gai (in seventh gate) not landing a significant blow on Juubi-Madara is irrelevant, to evoke that reaction alone from such a formidable opponent is impressive. The difference between Juubi-Madara and Nagato is astronomical. Let's not try to downplay Gai's feats here.



Juudara used no jutsu
Gai fastest punch was dealt with the same ease as minato attack 

Gai is fast no doubt , his movement are Inhuman big woop gaara said the same thing about genin lee . So I don't see how that's supposed to mean much 

Nagato doesn't need to move a muscle move back or even think 
He can and will use St on reflex 

The same way obito a far weaker person than juudara will beat 7 gate gai .  Kamui and 6th path of pain jutsu clearly exceed Judara using a staff once to block gai fastest punch


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 4, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Kisame was gutted like a fish by V2 Bee's Lariat. Nagato took the same impact...and was unharmed. So Nagato's a bit more durable than Kisame who couldn't even be knocked out by Hirudora.



Not the same Lariat.

And Nagato unlike Samahada absorbed all of Killer bees chakra shroud.

A Base Killer bee Lariat is doing nothing to Kisame just like it did nothing to Nagato.


----------



## Trojan (Feb 4, 2015)

Samahada can absorb the chakra as well. just saying...


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Samahada can absorb the chakra as well. just saying...



Indeed my post makes that clear. 



> And Nagato *unlike* Samahada absorbed *all* of Killer bees chakra shroud


----------



## Icegaze (Feb 4, 2015)

Fact is Nagato tanked bee attack while kisame couldn't 
The rest is semantics 
Also note asura path which is far weaker than when Nagato uses it has tanked shit loads and still kept it moving
Nagato using that ability with deva path powers is horrendously hard to beat . Well above anything gai can do 
By the time we throw in animal path powers and oh yh gedo mazo
Gai becomes a joke to nagato


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 4, 2015)

> The fact that this debate has gone on for 9 pages is almost frightening.
> 
> Nagato reaches his hand into Gai's ass and pulls out his soul.



Any reaction speed feats for Nagato?



> when gai is activating 7th gate nagato uses shinra tensei launches him a mileaway... if gai isnt incapacitated nagato will have already summoned the chameleon cerberus and the bird he can hide in the chameleon while gai fruitlessly tries to kill cerberus gai has no sensing...he succumbs to the gates.. or he gets on the bird and bombards gai with st if he feels bloodlusted cst or ct...



Even in base, Guy has much better reaction speed than Nagato. He can quickly activate 7 Gates and than blitz Nagato, who has no reaction speed feats in Guys caliber. Even base Guy.


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 4, 2015)

> Gai fastest punch was dealt with the same ease as minato attack
> 
> Gai is fast no doubt , his movement are Inhuman big woop gaara said the same thing about genin lee . So I don't see how that's supposed to mean much
> 
> ...



No it wasnt. Look at Madara's face expression. 

Also, it is very debatable if Rinnegan Obito can beat 7 Gates Guy one on one. he was able to dodge Juubidara with Kamui due to Tailed beasts chakra and senjutsu chakra he absorbed. 

But again, Rinnegan Obito is very well above Nagato.


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 4, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Not the same Lariat.
> 
> And Nagato unlike Samahada absorbed all of Killer bees chakra shroud.
> 
> A Base Killer bee Lariat is doing nothing to Kisame just like it did nothing to Nagato.



Nagato received the hit, grabbed and then he absorbed.

He didn't absorb the hit before it hits him. Therefore he basically tanked that Lariat.

Also, i agree with Santoryu. Gai is not as weak as people is making him look here. The man is quite the dangerous force.


----------



## ARGUS (Feb 4, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> *Fact is Nagato tanked bee attack while kisame couldn't *


Ummm no he didnt, 
preta path absorbed all the chakra from bees lariat and completely nullified the attack, 
preta negated the emtire damage whilst samehada only absorbed some chakra to revert bee to V1 as kisame still took the full force of the attack 

[


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 4, 2015)

Before he absorbed anything the lariat smacked into him...that's when the lariat wrecks you...as soon as it connects with you.

He shrugged that off and just absorbed the chakra shroud with preta because he could.


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 4, 2015)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Before he absorbed anything the lariat smacked into him...that's when the lariat wrecks you...as soon as it connects with you.
> 
> He shrugged that off and just absorbed the chakra shroud with preta because he could.



This. If Nagato had Preta Path activated before the hit, then we could've said that Preta nulified the attack.

However, Nagato was hit, after that he grabbed Killer Bee's arm and _then_ he activated the Barrier and stole Bee's chakra. He clearly got the hit and we see he shrugged it off.

And it's not a crazy thing. Senju and Uzumakis are quite durable and resilient.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Feb 4, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Kisame was gutted like a fish by V2 Bee's Lariat. Nagato took the same impact...and was unharmed. So Nagato's a bit more durable than Kisame who couldn't even be knocked out by Hirudora.



 Nagato used Preta Path which sucked Bee's chakra much faster than Kisame's does. Killer Bee was reverted back to base in just one panel, so obviously most of the damage was negated. Nagato also likely used it instantly after V2 Lariat considering a V1 Lariat could pretty much nearly kill Sasuke if it wasn't for Jugo and that Base Lariat > V1 Ei Lariat.

 Gai also didn't go all out as he even stated that it would kill Kisame and the fact that he didn't collapse after 7th Gate usage. What makes you think Nagato wouldn't be knocked out by Hirudora when Juubidara himself didn't want to get hit by it?


----------



## Icegaze (Feb 5, 2015)

because nagato has ST. a jutsu which would utterly troll hirudora. nagato is never getting hit by such. 

gai is more likely to suffer from using the tech than nagato

deva path alone trolls FRS from SM naruto with utmost ease. hirudora cannot stand against nagato. he wouldnt move an inch. gai however would have broken everything


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 5, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> because nagato has ST. a jutsu which would utterly troll hirudora. nagato is never getting hit by such.
> 
> gai is more likely to suffer from using the tech than nagato
> 
> deva path alone trolls FRS from SM naruto with utmost ease. hirudora cannot stand against nagato. he wouldnt move an inch. gai however would have broken everything



Nagato is getting hit by such because he cant use it against 7 Gates Guy. 7 Gates Guy speedblitz Nagato without any trouble.

I am still waiting for proofs Nagato can react to 7 Gates Guy.


----------



## sabre320 (Feb 5, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Nagato used Preta Path which sucked Bee's chakra much faster than Kisame's does. Killer Bee was reverted back to base in just one panel, so obviously most of the damage was negated. Nagato also likely used it instantly after V2 Lariat considering a V1 Lariat could pretty much nearly kill Sasuke if it wasn't for Jugo and that Base Lariat > V1 Ei Lariat.
> 
> Gai also didn't go all out as he even stated that it would kill Kisame and the fact that he didn't collapse after 7th Gate usage. What makes you think Nagato wouldn't be knocked out by Hirudora when Juubidara himself didn't want to get hit by it?



nagatos preta path does not absorb momentum it only absorbs chakra bee had already generated the momentum behind the hit and connected with nagato once he did nagato absorbed the cloak unfazed the force behind the hit was already there


----------



## Icegaze (Feb 5, 2015)

Leave them its funny how they think kisame is a tank and nagato with asura isnt 

considering asura path who is terribly weak compared to nagato using it was able to tank 

raikiri, chouji and his dad fist and ST 

all 6 path jutsu is basically a counter against all those non rikudo (this includes hashirama of course ) 

Imagine after the first ST nagato only has 5 seconds to wait(this hasnt even be verified if nagato himself needs a cool down) but assuming he does he has 5 other paths to buy 5 seconds 

gai in 8th gate wins any less gai doesnt stand the slightest chance. If you add in kakashi then we have a match


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 5, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Leave them its funny how they think kisame is a tank and nagato with asura isnt
> 
> considering asura path who is terribly weak compared to nagato using it was able to tank
> 
> ...




1. Asura Paths durability was just like a durability of that shinobi who was has been made one of Nagato's Paths. Nagato himself doesnt have much of durability feats.

2. I can agree that Nagato can beat base Guy before he starts to use any Gates. But OP made it that way Guy cant lose. Nagato is too slow for 7 Gate Guy.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Feb 5, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> nagatos preta path does not absorb momentum it only absorbs chakra bee had already generated the momentum behind the hit and connected with nagato once he did nagato absorbed the cloak unfazed the force behind the hit was already there



 Except it's clear that absorbing his V2 chakra made his Lariat weaker over all. Momentum is useless if he loses the strength accompanying that momentum.

 Kisame managed to counter V1 Bee's headbutt with his own and didn't even take damage despite Bee's momentum b/c Kisame absorbed all his V1 chakra using Samehada.


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## Icegaze (Feb 5, 2015)

i agree with NarutoX28
it seems bee had no strength left in his lariat. 

clearly the same cant happen to hirudora but thats why there is still shinra tensei which ends it all


----------



## Jad (Feb 5, 2015)

My reaction to this thread and the ensuing debates



Probably encapsulates everything about my feelings.


----------



## RBL (Feb 5, 2015)

Jad said:


> My reaction to this thread and the ensuing debates
> 
> 
> 
> Probably encapsulates everything about my feelings.



What happened Jad, did u loose ur youth already? why you are not debating :?(.

you could have deffended gai, when this firegaze guy said, Ei was faster and stronger than him.


----------



## Jad (Feb 5, 2015)

Bruce Lee said:


> What happened Jad, did u loose ur youth already? why you are not debating :?(.
> 
> you could have deffended gai, when this firegaze guy said, Ei was faster and stronger than him.



I'd debate for Gai if people believed in Lee's solo Meteorite feat and know that only he destroyed half of it


----------



## Icegaze (Feb 5, 2015)

But that feat isn't manga 
Hence the lack of belief 
We gonna have to crack 1010 ratings up a notch cuz in movies she ain't half bad


----------



## Jad (Feb 5, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> But that feat isn't manga
> Hence the lack of belief
> We gonna have to crack 1010 ratings up a notch cuz in movies she ain't half bad



Fair enough, I just heard from TakL, was that in interviews, Kishi made people re-write the script many times. And that he even dubbed this movie chapter 699.5. But whatever, Naruto is ended, all we have now is Bolt....


----------



## StarWanderer (Feb 5, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> i agree with NarutoX28
> it seems bee had no strength left in his lariat.
> 
> clearly the same cant happen to hirudora but thats why there is still shinra tensei which ends it all



7 Gates Guy's speed ends it all quickly. Nagato doesnt have reaction speed to use anything against Guy before Guy breaks his face.


----------



## Mercurial (Feb 5, 2015)

Gai was portrayed as "more than equal to anyone in the Akatsuki" since a long time. When the 8th Gate wasn't taken in account. Ootherwise it would have been said that he negs the entire Akatsuki all together. Well, he isn't Kakashi's eternal rival just for show.



As powerful as he can be, Nagato gets blitzed and Hiru Tora'd in the face by 7th Gate Gai. And he is not surviving, because differently from the Kisame fight now Gai has killing intent.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Feb 5, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> 7 Gates Guy's speed ends it all quickly. Nagato doesnt have reaction speed to use anything against Guy before Guy breaks his face.



 This. I question why somebody said he'd use ST + Human Path (or whatever it was) before 7th Gate Gai gets in a hit considering Juubidara couldn't do anything while he could against SM Minato.


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 5, 2015)

Come on guys, this is getting ridicuolus. I don't know if it's Jad or me. But we are the biggest Gai fanboys here. And even us knows that Gai is not defeating Nagato.

Juudara reacted to Gai's attacks cleanly. He was, indeed, surprised because he didn't expect Gai to move quite fast and he ended up in a bad position because of that. I don't agree that Juudara was toying around with Gai, he was as bloodlusted with Gai as he was with Minato.

But that's not enough to blitz Nagato and fodderstomp him. Let alone from 100 fucking meters.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 5, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Come on guys, this is getting ridicuolus. I don't know if it's Jad or me. But we are the biggest Gai fanboys here. And even us knows that Gai is not defeating Nagato.
> 
> Juudara reacted to Gai's attacks cleanly. He was, indeed, surprised because he didn't expect Gai to move quite fast and he ended up in a bad position because of that. I don't agree that Juudara was toying around with Gai, he was as bloodlusted with Gai as he was with Minato.
> 
> But that's not enough to blitz Nagato and fodderstomp him. Let alone from 100 fucking meters.




 This is true, but you also ignore the fact that Juubidara couldn't even use his Gedodamas at all as well as the fact that 7th Gate Gai had to be aware of the Gedodama's location or he'd be a goner.

 7th Gate Gai was just as bad of a position as Juubidara was.

 Due to Juubidara not being able to use his Gedodama, Nagato gets fucked up.

 Even if Nagato does use a village-size ST, Gai will just summon a turtle and jump over the AoE and then proceed beating the shit out of Nagato.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 5, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Even if Nagato does use a village-size ST, Gai will just summon a turtle and jump over the AoE and then proceed beating the shit out of Nagato.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 5, 2015)

What? Am I not playing the game right?


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## Arles Celes (Feb 6, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Even if Nagato does use a village-size ST, Gai will just summon a turtle and jump over the AoE and then proceed beating the shit out of Nagato.



Naaah, Guy just throws the turtle faster than Nagato can think and kills him with such a deadly projectile. 

In Guy's hands that turtle is at least as deadly as a gudoudama.


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## Icegaze (Feb 6, 2015)

lol  
madara didnt attempt to use his black balls cuz there was no need
again when he wanted to, he slapped away gai fastest punch with neg difficulty 

yes gai can rival anyone in akatsuki i agree. doesnt mean he is going to remotely win here. 

same way he would loose to obito. nagato and obito have jutsu that counter gais

kisame would have an easier time against bee than he would gai. doesnt mean gai woudl beat bee now does it

depends who he is fighting against 6 path of pain abilities >>>>>>7 gate gai


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## Source (Feb 6, 2015)

Jad said:


> Fair enough, I just heard from TakL, was that in interviews, Kishi made people re-write the script many times. And that he even dubbed this movie chapter 699.5. But whatever, Naruto is ended, all we have now is Bolt....



The feat is legit, the movie is canon, but Lee didn't do it alone.


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## Icegaze (Feb 6, 2015)

canon is manga. 
even the anime isnt canon so no the movie cant be canon 
or we can say temari hit madara with her fuuton 
which we all know she didnt


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## LostSelf (Feb 6, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> This is true, but you also ignore the fact that Juubidara couldn't even use his Gedodamas at all as well as the fact that 7th Gate Gai had to be aware of the Gedodama's location or he'd be a goner.



Who says he couldn't? He reacted and blocked Evening Elephant, wich is faster than Hirudora and any of 7th gated Gai's punches. And people yet believe Madara couldn't react to the 7th? 



> 7th Gate Gai was just as bad of a position as Juubidara was.



No, he wasn't. Gai was in attacking mode. Madara was surprised and had to jump back. He was the only one in a bad position.



> Due to Juubidara not being able to use his Gedodama, Nagato gets fucked up.




Who says he couldn't? And who says his Gedodama are faster than Madara himself?



> Even if Nagato does use a village-size ST, Gai will just summon a turtle and jump over the AoE and then proceed beating the shit out of Nagato.



Yeah, no. Gai cannot see Shinra Tensei.



StarWanderer said:


> 7 Gates Guy surprised Juubidara from a very long distance with his *speed*.



That and only that. And it wasn't 100 meters.



> Also, the thing is - 7 Gates Guy was able to react to Juubidara, surprise him with his speed and pressure him with a taijutsu. Juubidara was unable to counter at all, untill the moment Guy used Hirudora. But again - if Hirudora wasnt such an AoE attack, Guy could fight longer.
> 
> Its not ridiculous at all - its your fact denial that is rediculous.



When did Gai reacted to Juudara? So you say that Gai's normal hits in the 7th gate are faster than Evening Elephant? And i am the ridiculous?



> Edo Madara blocked a punch from V2 War Arc Ei point blank. Later, he created mokuton clones which could react to V2 Ei and tag him. He reacted to any of the 5 Kage. He was beating Fourth Division with a taijutsu. He dodged Gaara's sand. And he blocked an attack from BM Naruto's clone, effortlessly.



Ei didn't use V2. What proofs do you have that the clones reacted to V2 or kept up with V2? Because saying that would also mean that Mei and the others could keep up with V2 speed. Then, V2 Ei speed would be shit, and no good of a feat if Madara reacted to it. But they didn't. The reason why the clones could _only_ get a hold on Ei was because he was distracted. Before that, they weren't doing a thing to him. 



> Later, alive aye-less Madara, who is superior to Edo Madara in terms of physical capabilities, easily outpased SM Naruto and Sai.



Both terribly slower than Ei, I doubt that SM Naruto has V1 Ei speed. and Madara did what Gai did, surprised Naruto suddenly.



> Later, alive Madara absorbed Hashirama's Sage Mode and outpased EMS Sasuke and Edo Tobirama, who taged Juubito multiple times and demonstrated better reflexes than KCM Minato, for example.



Outpassing Sasuke? No. Madara jumped back and dodged Sasuke's attacks, nothing less, nothing more. Madara reacted to Tobirama's movement speed, not Hiraishin. And thanks to what, do you think? To sensing. Tobirama tagged Juubito because of Hiraishin, and because Juubito was marked. Madara was not marked.



> Later, he gained the same chakra with which Obito could blitz people around. But wait, the same? It was even *stronger* than that of Juubito.



Yes, he did.



> Alive Madara + Hashirama's Sage Mode + Juubi's chakra superior to that of Juubito = Juubidara.
> 
> And 7 Gates Guy:
> 
> ...



Only the first is acurrate. The others never happened.



> 7 Gates Guy was comparable to Juubidara in reaction speed and movement speed. And Juubidara wasnt toying with Guy, it is seen through Juubidara's face expressions and common sense.



Reaction speed =/= Movement speed. It's curious that you are using face expression when Madara's expression was _only_ when Gai surprised him moving towards him. Wich is the number 1 point you made above. We didn't see Madara's facial expression when he was blocking Gai's hits and jumping back, wich is, way harder than moving onwards, mind you.

So Juudara not only was blocking and avoiding being hit by Gai doing small jumps back, but he reacted to the first Evening Elephant. So, no.


> Edo Madara is already a lot, and i mean *A LOT*, faster than Nagato in terms of reaction speed and movement speed. If there was a taijutsu fight between Nagato and Edo Madara, Edo Madara would have blitzed him due to his speed superiority.




Reaction speed =/= speed. Madara's only way of defeating Nagato is Perfect Susano'o. You want to talk about fast then? A Cripple Nagato blasted Bee away incredibly fast and then jumped behind him to grab him before Bee touched the floor. How fast do you think a healthy and prime one would move?

Edo Madara tries to blitz Nagato and he is blasted by Shinra Tensei.


> That means, Nagato doesnt stand a chance against 7 Gates Guy. 7 Gates Guy speedblitz Nagato before Nagato even thinks about doing anything. I'd say, Nagato wont even know what hit him - he would be blitzed already.
> 
> 7 Gates Guy didnt give him an opportunity to use his Juubi Jinton due to his super-speed. And you cant prove Juubidara was toying with Guy, or was holding himself back. There is literally no proof to that and it is against common sense.



I am starting to think that it's not Gai who is being grossly overrated, something _i hate_ that happens to my all time-favorite character. It seems you think Nagato is Deidara level or something like that.

You seriously don't even know Nagato's tier and how powerful the man was.


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## Icegaze (Feb 6, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> He didn't hit him. He had no reason to not hit him if he could, he didn't have to hold off his chakra reserves, he didn't have to worry about not knowing the enemy's powers, there was no plot reason as even if he could kill him with a Gudodama Kishimoto could have always had Kakashi teleporting it at the last moment with Kamui , or at least Gai being hit with a simple punch or kick to show his performance in a less good way; instead, it was said to Gai to avoid at any cost to be hit with the black staff and the black balls, and Madara didn't hit him (even if he had no reason to not try to do it, it's not like Gai was his best friend or something, and as said plot reasons don't stand), because even if he could react to his speed and taijutsu (as Madara still parried or dodged all 7th Gate Gai's attacks) he still was pressured and because of that couldn't land a clean counterhit. While he could easily do that with SM Minato.



loool 
so how did juudara block *gai fastest punch * with the same ease he did minato attack 
now before you attempt to claim it isnt gai fastest punch. do note he has said so on panel himself
also note he creates shockwaves with hirudora clearly implying a difference in speed between that and his regular 7 gates attack 

the only time his normal punch is as fast as his gated technique attack is in 8th gate. where any punch creates an air vacuum 

in 7th gate he doesnt have that ability 

So unless you are saying juudara got much faster. 7th gate gai never remotely pushed him 

madara loves battle he didnt see 5 kage and go PS susanoo immediately. why would juudara be any different? if anything he is more likely to go easy on people. due to the massive gap in power. 

hirudora>>>>>>any of 7th gate gai attacks. based on logic, common sense, gai saying so on panel. 

if u can block hirudora. the rest of 7th gate gai attacks can be blocked with more ease


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> He didn't hit him.He had no reason to not hit him if he could, he didn't have to hold off his chakra reserves, he didn't have to worry about not knowing the enemy's powers, there was no plot reason as even if he could kill him with a Gudodama Kishimoto could have always had Kakashi teleporting it at the last moment with Kamui , or at least Gai being hit with a simple punch or kick to show his performance in a less good way; instead, it was said to Gai to avoid at any cost to be hit with the black staff and the black balls, and Madara didn't hit him (even if he had no reason to not try to do it, it's not like Gai was his best friend or something, and as said plot reasons don't stand), because even if he could react to his speed and taijutsu (as Madara still parried or dodged all 7th Gate Gai's attacks) he still was pressured and because of that couldn't land a clean counterhit. While he could easily do that with SM Minato.



You say all this but let you ask you something. What was the reason that Madara never used Susanoo once he became a Juubi Jin? What's the reason that Madara didn't use anyone of Rinnegan abilities besides Limbo and CT(I guess we could throw in MT for his third eye Shar-Rinnegan or whatever you people call it) once he became a Juubi Jin? What's the reason that Madara didn't use a single Mokuton jutsu once he became a Juubi Jin? 

See you're whole point revolves there being no reason for Madara to not use them so therefore he was unable to do it but that point starts to fail when you actually look at Madara's history of having jutsu he can use but doesn't.



StarWanderer said:


> 7 Gates Guy didnt give him an opportunity to use his Juubi Jinton due to his super-speed.



Can you prove it was his speed that stop him and it wasn't a case that Madara didn't care to use it?



> And you cant prove Juubidara was toying with Guy, or was holding himself back.



Lack of Susanoo being used, no Mokuton was used, no elemental jutsu period was used, no clones were used, no Rinnegan jutsu were used, ect. but oh yeah there's no proof in any way, shape, or form that Madara was holding back or anything. 



> There is literally no proof to that and it is against common sense.



Whatever helps you sleep at night at bud, go wank the good wank


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## Trojan (Feb 6, 2015)

Bonly said:


> You say all this but let *me* ask you something. What was the reason that Madara never used Susanoo once he became a Juubi Jin? What's the reason that Madara didn't use anyone of Rinnegan abilities besides Limbo and CT(I guess we could throw in MT for his third eye Shar-Rinnegan or whatever you people call it) once he became a Juubi Jin? What's the reason that Madara didn't use a single Mokuton jutsu once he became a Juubi Jin?
> 
> See *your* whole point revolves there being no reason for Madara to not use them so therefore he was unable to do it but that point starts to fail when you actually look at Madara's history of having jutsu he can use but doesn't.



Fixed for you. U_U


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Fixed for you. U_U



Thank you Based Hussain, I didn't even noticed that I had messed up


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## LostSelf (Feb 6, 2015)

Actually, i think that, just like Juubito, Juubi Jins cannot use MS/EMS jutsus.

I don't remember if he used Susano'o against Sasuke and Naruto. But if he didn't, in the hurry he was, probably was because we couldn't just like Obito couldn't use Kamui.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Actually, i think that, just like Juubito, Juubi Jins cannot use MS/EMS jutsus.
> 
> I don't remember if he used Susano'o against Sasuke and Naruto. But if he didn't, in the hurry he was, probably was because we couldn't just like Obito couldn't use Kamui.




*Spoiler*: __ 





http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/674/18


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## LostSelf (Feb 6, 2015)

We then wonder: Why the fuck wasn't Obito able to use his own Kamui? And why the fuck didn't Madara use PS Susano'o against them? 

Just one word: Kishimoto


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## Jagger (Feb 6, 2015)

Kishimoto contradicted himself in the most blatant of ways by allowing Madara to use Kamui.

The reason of why certain villains or characters stop using certain abilities at some point without a feasible explanation is because Kishimoto realized they'd be too powerful to make a "coherent" story. Therefore, they magically forget to use them.

For example, Juudara with his Perfect Susano'O would be a nightmare.


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## sabre320 (Feb 6, 2015)

Bonly said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Obito could use kamui but could not use phasing kamuis main defensive ability thats why obito was annoyed with this weakness laying evidence to the fact that juubi jin cannot use dojutsu abilities to their full extent


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## StarWanderer (Feb 6, 2015)

> That and only that. And it wasn't 100 meters.



Tens of meters for sure, and Nagato doesnt have Juubidara's reaction speed anyway.



> When did Gai reacted to Juudara? So you say that Gai's normal hits in the 7th gate are faster than Evening Elephant? And i am the ridiculous?



1. Juubidara did with Hirudora the same thing he did to other Guy's hits. Guy was lieing down because of Gates side effects and Hirudora's AoE range.
2. Hirudora heeds a hand seal, that could be the reason why Juubidara reacted to it in that way. Juubidara knew Guy is going to use something due to hand seal/
3. The fact he blocked it doesnt prove anything. He was fast enough to block Guy's attacks and Hirudora, but at the same time, he couldnt counter-attack him in the same way he counter-attacked Minato. 



> Ei didn't use V2. What proofs do you have that the clones reacted to V2 or kept up with V2? Because saying that would also mean that Mei and the others could keep up with V2 speed. Then, V2 Ei speed would be shit, and no good of a feat if Madara reacted to it. But they didn't. The reason why the clones could only get a hold on Ei was because he was distracted. Before that, they weren't doing a thing to him.



He used V2. His hair was spikey, just like in his V2 state when he started to sharge at Madara with Mei. And if he wasnt all out, he could just use V2 in his next attack, but he told Madara could counter even his speed and had Onoki to make him faster.

Ei's hair was also spiky when he blocked clones Susanoo punch. And i have a quastion - if he is so fast, why he blocked it instead of dodging it? It was pretty much stupid of him to block it if he could dodge.

Mei didnt keep up with V2 Ei - she just attacked Edo Madara with her jutsu. Thats it.



> Both terribly slower than Ei, I doubt that SM Naruto has V1 Ei speed. and Madara did what Gai did, surprised Naruto suddenly.



SM Naruto reacted to Third Raikage's Hell Stab point blank, and Sai reacted to Hebi Sasuke. SM Naruto is a sensor with reaction speed superior to himself in KCM, as it was stated in Manga. He could have dodged Madara's blitz, for example. But he didnt.



> Outpassing Sasuke? No. Madara jumped back and dodged Sasuke's attacks, nothing less, nothing more. Madara reacted to Tobirama's movement speed, not Hiraishin. And thanks to what, do you think? To sensing. Tobirama tagged Juubito because of Hiraishin, and because Juubito was marked. Madara was not marked.



Ok, i can agree that Madara just dodged his attacks and than grabbed his sword. Still very impressive, even with Sage Mode, considering Sage Mode's sensing is worse than EMS's precognition.

Madara reacted to Tobirama's Shunshin. Hiraishin is just a teleportation. Also, he reacted to Tobirama's hand speed. He had reaction speed and movement speed to do so. Not just sensing.

Tobirama also taged Juubito first time due to his reflexes.



> Only the first is acurrate. The others never happened.



How they neveer happened when Juubidara was going back and couldnt blitz Guy in the same way he blitzed SM Minato?



> Reaction speed =/= Movement speed. It's curious that you are using face expression when Madara's expression was only when Gai surprised him moving towards him. Wich is the number 1 point you made above. We didn't see Madara's facial expression when he was blocking Gai's hits and jumping back, wich is, way harder than moving onwards, mind you.
> 
> So Juudara not only was blocking and avoiding being hit by Gai doing small jumps back, but he reacted to the first Evening Elephant. So, no.



He had face expression when Guy tried to use Hirudora.

He reacted, that means he was fast enough to do so. But he wasnt fast enough to blitz Guy himself. Well, i countered that part above.



> Reaction speed =/= speed. Madara's only way of defeating Nagato is Perfect Susano'o. You want to talk about fast then? A Cripple Nagato blasted Bee away incredibly fast and then jumped behind him to grab him before Bee touched the floor. How fast do you think a healthy and prime one would move?
> 
> Edo Madara tries to blitz Nagato and he is blasted by Shinra Tensei.
> Quote:



You didnt understand me in a right way. If Nagato and Madara had just pure taijutsu fight, Madara would have defeated Nagato easily due to his movement speed and reaction speed superiority.

Bee is much slower than Madara. Edo or alive.



> I am starting to think that it's not Gai who is being grossly overrated, something i hate that happens to my all time-favorite character. It seems you think Nagato is Deidara level or something like that.
> 
> You seriously don't even know Nagato's tier and how powerful the man was.



I think Nagato and 7 Gates Guy are both powerhouses much more powerfull than Deidara, but Guy still speedblitz Nagato.



> Can you prove it was his speed that stop him and it wasn't a case that Madara didn't care to use it?



Madara was too busy dodging Guy's blows and it is pretty much obvious.



> Lack of Susanoo being used, no Mokuton was used, no elemental jutsu period was used, no clones were used, no Rinnegan jutsu were used, ect. but oh yeah there's no proof in any way, shape, or form that Madara was holding back or anything.



Prove that Juubidara could use Susanoo. And good luck activating Susanoo when Guy is fighting you in CQC. 
He couldnt use mokuton because he was too busy dodging Guys blows. The same about all other jutsu. Also, Juubidara's face expressions are against your point of view. Plus, there was no reason for Juubidara to hold himself back. If he could blitz Guy, he would have blitzed him the same way he blitzed SM Minato. But he couldnt. 



> Whatever helps you sleep at night at bud, go wank the good wank



The same i can address to you, my friend.


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## Veracity (Feb 6, 2015)

@lostself

I agree with your logic overall as nobody here should believe Gai is beating someone like Nagato , but just a couple things wrong with what you said .

1) you can't really surprise a perfect sage like Naruto. He canonically reacts to blindsided attacks, and he was looking right at Madara when he moved. The massive difference between his feat and Gai's is that; Gai didn't actually land a without Madara easily dodging and blocking, and Madara has a completely different mindset then naruto. Naruto doesn't play around like Madara. Madara didnt decimate Gai off the planet was because he fucks around literally on purpose. It's the same reason he was fighting two perfect Jin's without the use of PS, and it's the reason he dove into a battle with 8 Bjuii without Sussano. So no, what Gai did wasn't that impressive tbh.

2) Tobirama actually did tag Juubito multiple times with raw handspeed. Don't be sweating on Tobirama lol.


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## LostSelf (Feb 6, 2015)

I actually don't think Madara played around with Gai. Since his return, he tried to kill Sasuke, Kicked Tobirama mercilesly, extracted the Bijuus from Naruto, kicked Minato away, Kicked Gai away and was about to kill him. And stabbed Sakura when she tried to punch him without giving her any real chance of doing a thing,

Out of all those things, i find very unfair to say he played around with Gai but not with everybody else if even Sakura didn't have the luxury of his "mercy". With Gai, Madara just was proven wrong. He never thought Gai would've approached at such speed. But it's not like he was pressured. However, that's a incredibly speed feat for Gai, because Madara was more than visibly surprised and i cannot ignore the "Holy fucking shit" face made.

Sages can be taken by surprise, though. Itachi took Kabuto by surprise. The same Deva Path took him by surprise as well. What happened to Naruto doesn't have to do with sensing as he was seeing Madara. Madara just happend to move too fast or faster than what he might've expected, Even if he could feel him, his body might've not been able to react in time due to the surprise.

About Tobirama, i meant doing it in a face to face confrontation, though. The same would've happened with Tobirama if he approached Juubito with Hiraishin like Minato tried to do. Juubito was facing a lot of opponents by that time.

However, the times i remember Tobirama touching him was due to the marking Juubito had, that allowed Tobirama to approach him incredibly quick and do his own thing. That made the difference of his performance against SM Madara and Juubito. Because i doubt that SM Madara can be superior to Juubito in any shape or form.

And as for Star Wanderer. We'll leave it there. As much as i love your Gai love. We will get nowhere. And i don't like debating against my man Gai.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 6, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> I actually don't think Madara played around with Gai. Since his return, he tried to kill Sasuke, Kicked Tobirama mercilesly, extracted the Bijuus from Naruto, kicked Minato away, Kicked Gai away and was about to kill him. And stabbed Sakura when she tried to punch him without giving her any real chance of doing a thing,
> 
> Out of all those things, i find very unfair to say he played around with Gai but not with everybody else if even Sakura didn't have the luxury of his "mercy". With Gai, Madara just was proven wrong. He never thought Gai would've approached at such speed. But it's not like he was pressured. However, that's a incredibly speed feat for Gai, because Madara was more than visibly surprised and i cannot ignore the "Holy fucking shit" face made.
> 
> ...



As you wish.


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## Jagger (Feb 6, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> *Obito could use kamui but could not use phasing kamuis main defensive ability* thats why obito was annoyed with this weakness laying evidence to the fact that juubi jin cannot use dojutsu abilities to their full extent


However, Kakashi did point out both techniques were essentially the same. 

Not to mention it doesn't make sense of why Obito's main defensive ability is restrained while the others are not.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 6, 2015)

If a fighter dodged, or blocked enemies fastest attack, does that mean he is faster? No it doesnt. Alexander Gustafsson avoided, or blocked some of Jon Jones fastest attacks. Does that mean he is faster? No. 

The same thing is with Juubidara. He countered Hirudora, which requires hand seal by the way. So what? He still was unable to beat Guy in CQC and was surprised with his speed. Why he didnt do to Guy the same thing he did to SM Minato? And why do you guys think Juubidara wasnt all out on Guy? Where is a proof of that? What is the sense for Juubidara to not try to blitz Guy in the same way he blitzed SM Minato? How could he use all of his jutsu when he was too busy dodging Guys attacks? 

7 Gates Guy has shown incredible movement speed and reaction speed. Nagato doesnt have reaction speed on a level, necessary to react to 7 Gates Guy. 

No matter how powerfull Nagato is, its all about speed. Guy speedblitz.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 6, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> We then wonder: Why the fuck wasn't Obito able to use his own Kamui? And why the fuck didn't Madara use PS Susano'o against them?
> 
> Just one word: Kishimoto



 Well, it was stated by Obito that he can't use his Kamui phasing as a Juubi Jin. 

 No idea why Madara didn't use PS, but Kamui can be used. I guess Kishi thought PS would be too OP.

 @Jagger

But, Obito himself stated he can't phase through things. He never said anything about not using Kamui. 

 Kakashi's statement was more to explain that their S/T is connected, not exactly the same.


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## Jagger (Feb 6, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> @Jagger
> 
> But, Obito himself stated he can't phase through things. He never said anything about not using Kamui.
> 
> Kakashi's statement was more to explain that their S/T is connected, not exactly the same.


Okay, then, explain to me the difference between both and what makes  them different to the point Juubito couldn't use, but Juudara could use the other one.

Hint: There's absolutely no difference about it. What Obito essentially does is send specific part of his body to his alternative dimension, which is something Madara did by sending _half of his body_ to somewhere else.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 6, 2015)

Jagger said:


> Okay, then, explain to me the difference between both and what makes  them different to the point Juubito couldn't use, but Juudara could use the other one.



 I can't explain it because it wasn't thoroughly explained. All it was stated that they're connected, not the same "technique" which is understandable considering both uses 2 different eyes which each Mangekyo has a different power. I'm also trying to be safe with my words as they're essentially the same jutsu as they do have a different name, but they do work differently. I just wish Kishi helped explain why Juubito couldn't Kamui phase through things.



> Hint: There's absolutely no difference about it. What Obito essentially does is send specific part of his body to his alternative dimension, which is something Madara did by sending _half of his body_ to somewhere else.



 Except the jutsus are only connected and work entirely differently.

 Obito is able to absorb things and phase through them.

 Kakashi's is done by being able to warp something from a distance.

 They should be the same, but it's likely that they're only connected unless Kishi bullshitted which isn't unlikely.


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## sabre320 (Feb 7, 2015)

Jagger said:


> Okay, then, explain to me the difference between both and what makes  them different to the point Juubito couldn't use, but Juudara could use the other one.
> 
> Hint: There's absolutely no difference about it. What Obito essentially does is send specific part of his body to his alternative dimension, which is something Madara did by sending _half of his body_ to somewhere else.



kamui from obitos eye is teleporting and sucking things in to the kamui dimension through kamui portal phasing is keeping ur self in the real world while sending ur material body in the kamui world it is much faster then kamui warping to such an extent that even juubidara cant outspeed phasing while a guodama attack can outspeed kamui warp...


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## KeyofMiracles (Feb 7, 2015)

Jagger said:


> Okay, then, explain to me the difference between both and what makes  them different to the point Juubito couldn't use, but Juudara could use the other one.
> 
> Hint: There's absolutely no difference about it. What Obito essentially does is send specific part of his body to his alternative dimension, which is something Madara did by sending _half of his body_ to somewhere else.



Not sure why you are questioning what the manga stated, and asking for explanations? Whether or not anyone can explain why phasing doesn't work but teleportation does isn't going to change what the manga explicitly stated and showed.

So no, it's not a contradiction.


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## ARGUS (Feb 7, 2015)

Jagger said:


> However, Kakashi did point out both techniques were essentially the same.
> 
> Not to mention it doesn't make sense of why Obito's main defensive ability is restrained while the others are not.



Kamui intangibility cant be used as a juubi jin since there is still only one juubi inside juubito, 
there cant be 2 juubis in 2 different dimensions hence why intangiblity is not happening

kamui teleportation which is what juudara used, involved the entire jin to teleport where the juubi clearly doesnt interfere with, so  they are not both essentially the same 



Jagger said:


> Okay, then, explain to me the difference between both and what makes  them different to the point Juubito couldn't use, but Juudara could use the other one.


Already addressed above 



> Hint: There's absolutely no difference about it. What Obito essentially does is send specific part of his body to his alternative dimension, which is something Madara did by sending _half of his body_ to somewhere else.


Except, Madara was already severed in half, yet he was still a jin, 
his legs became invalid right after the attack, since they werent a part of him anymore, 

and he transpoorted his entire body to the dimensions rather than just his parts,
hence why the juubi inside him didnt interfere with this, 

Kamui warps could also be used as a jin, its only the intangibility which isnt possible, and it makes sense why its not,


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