# Marco is Admiral Level



## YonkoDrippy (Feb 27, 2021)

This may be hard for some to believe but Lets be real here, Marco is Admiral level. The dude has some of the best feats in the series and people love to downplay him. He even has better feats than some admirals like Fujitora and MF Sengoku. I don’t think Marco can beat an Admiral, but I do think he can stalemate one or at least give any of them extreme-diff and here’s why.

- Easily Keeps up with Kizaru. When it comes to Kizaru, people love to wank him by saying “he was trolling lol”. But Marco wasn’t taking him serious either and he still fought on par with him. Whitebeard was his target so there was no way Kizaru was trolling there. He actually tried to kill WB and Marco stopped him.

- Chokeholds King and Queen at the same time. That’s easily an Admiral level feat. King is more than likely stronger than Katakuri who I’m sure most of you think would put up a fight against any Admiral. And then you have Marco casually ragdolling 2 people stronger or comparable to him. I can’t see someone like Fujitora doing this when he got pressured by G3 Luffy

- Clashes and holds his own against Big Mom. No one who’s only YC1 can hold their own against Yonko 1 vs 1. We already saw how start-of-Wano Luffy got 1 shot by Kaido. Who Big Mom stalemated. Which further proves Marco is Admiral level

- The Gorosei consider him a Yonko level threat. And one of the only guys capable of beating Blackbeard. Yes, he lost to Blackbeard but we don’t know how strong Blackbeard was when he beat Marco. He could’ve easily been Yonko level by the time he beat him. He also has the 2 strongest fruits in the series so you can’t really downplay Marco for this

- It makes sense for him to be Admiral level. He’s the Vice captain of the strongest Pirate crew in the world.

The only way you could argue he isn’t Admiral level is him failing to damage Akainu. But who knows if those were even Marco’s strongest attacks he was hitting him with. Marco didn’t use any named attacks in the War. I’m sure he had more up his sleeve. And besides he fought every Admiral head on and none of them damaged him. Which proves he’s on their level. What do you guys think? Leave a rating




@stealthblack @xmysticgohanx @Nikseng @Xelioszzapporro

Reactions: Like 9 | Agree 1 | Disagree 7


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

- Kizaru was trolling. He pretended to be hurt from Marco attack. he fought Rakuyo and Rakuyo survived. Is Rakuyo admiral level? He kicked Luffy to WB when he could kill Luffy whenever he wanted to. Kizaru shot down Marco but didb't capture him or kill him. He  left marco there.

- Apoo also solo Luffy, Zoro, Kidd is he admiral level? King and Queen got out of Marco choke.

- Marco lost the clash against Big Mom and couldn't do anything when Big Mom choked him. Marco also clashd with Hevenely Fire, an attack which did zero physical damage to Reiju. Thunder Bagua would one shot almost anyone with bad durability and bad CoO. When Luffy used FS he could partially dodged Thunder bagua.

- Gorosei said Marco name because even though WB died, WBP was still the strongest pirate crew after Beast Pirates, BMP, RHP. If BBP killed Kaido for example Gorosei would call King and remnant of Beast Pirates as candidatee that can stop BBP.

- King, Queen and Jack are also called Kaido right hand man but that doesn't elevate Jack to FM level.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ruse (Feb 27, 2021)

This should be good...

Generally I’d say so, I think someone like Kizaru or Issho would need high diff to beat him. He’s been very impressive in the raid so far we can’t just chalk up his showings to ‘lol it’s MF’

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

BBP who made Marco quit piracy ran away from Akainu. How is Marco admiral level?

The amount of fear BBP have toward Akainu while BBP no diff Marco and his crews. If Marco is admiral level, BBP would fight Akainu head on like they did against Marco and his crews.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Draco Bolton (Feb 27, 2021)

>Me 2 minutes ago


Marco is Admiral Level​"*This may be hard for some to believe but Lets be real here, Marco is Admiral level. The dude has some of the best feats in the series and people love to downplay him. He even has better feats than some admirals like Fujitora and MF Sengoku. I don’t think Marco can beat an Admiral, but I do think he can stalemate one or at least give any of them extreme-diff and here's why"*



I'M IN 


Wake up ChickenCHADS, it's our time

Sakazuki & Prime Garp better watch out

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 8 | GODA 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Feb 27, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> - Kizaru was trolling. He pretended to be hurt from Marco attack.


And Marco pretended to be hurt from his attack


Dragon D Xebec said:


> he fought Rakuyo and Rakuyo survived. Is Rakuyo admiral level?


No just shows he is strong enough to not get trashed by one. Plus that fight was off panel


Dragon D Xebec said:


> He kicked Luffy to WB when he could kill Luffy whenever he wanted to. Kizaru shot down Marco but didb't capture him or kill him. He  left marco there.


A cuffed Marco lol. How could you ignore that he was literally cuffed in sea stone and still couldn’t put Marco down


Dragon D Xebec said:


> - Apoo also solo Luffy, Zoro, Kidd is he admiral level? King and Queen got out of Marco choke.


That’s different. He caught them off guard with Hax. Doesn’t matter if they got out he still managed to choke them


Dragon D Xebec said:


> - Marco lost the clash against Big Mom and couldn't do anything when Big Mom choked him. Marco also clashd with Hevenely Fire, an attack which did zero physical damage to Reiju. Thunder Bagua would one shot almost anyone with bad durability and bad CoO. When Luffy used FS he could partially dodged Thunder bagua.


He still clashed with her. Look what happened when WCI Luffy tried to clash with her. He got blocked no diff and knocked out of G4, and Big Mom didn’t even use a named attack like how he did Marco. Reiju surviving that is clearly an outlier


Dragon D Xebec said:


> - Gorosei said Marco name because even though WB died, WBP was still the strongest pirate crew after Beast Pirates, BMP, RHP. If BBP killed Kaido for example Gorosei would call King and remnant of Beast Pirates as candidatee that can stop BBP.


But they didn’t even mention the WBP, they mentioned Marco himself. Stop trying to switch up things stated in the Manga


Dragon D Xebec said:


> - King, Queen and Jack are also called Kaido right hand man but that doesn't elevate Jack to FM level.


Marco has better feats then them not sure what u mean here


Dragon D Xebec said:


> BBP who made Marco quit piracy ran away from Akainu. How is Marco admiral level?
> 
> The amount of fear BBP have toward Akainu while BBP no diff Marco and his crews. If Marco is admiral level, BBP would fight Akainu head on like they did against Marco and his crews.


That Blackbeard was weaker than the one that fought Marco. That was literally a whole year before they fought..


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## CaptainCommander (Feb 27, 2021)

Disagree, he should be rated higher.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 27, 2021)

Too bad you're not up to date with the spoilers

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Feb 27, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Too bad you're not up to date with the spoilers


what spoilers


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 27, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> what spoilers


Well I can't say now can I, just wait for the latest chapter.

Also this is bs:


YonkoDrippy said:


> - Clashes and holds his own against Big Mom. No one who’s only YC1 can hold their own against Yonko 1 vs 1. We already saw how start-of-Wano Luffy got 1 shot by Kaido. Who Big Mom stalemated. Which further proves Marco is Admiral level


Marco's DF hard countered Big Mom's homie, then she instantly grabbed and immobilized him, proving he's nowhere on her level outside of the homie counter. It's like saying Kin'emon is admiral level because his fire cutting style cancelled Kaido's boro breath or Zoro is admiral level because he fire cut Prometheus.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Nikseng (Feb 27, 2021)

While I don't think he's quite admiral level, I think he would give at least high diff to any of them, if not extreme diff for some.

I see people like Marco, Beckman, Sabo, Luffy, MF Teach etc a subtier below admiral level (YC1 + or entry admiral level) with Luffy being admiral level come next arc and Beckman being at the top of this tier.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> And Marco pretended to be hurt from his attack


Kizaru still let marco live lol even after he shot him down. Didn't even capture Marco. Marco was trolling? Lol Ace was about to be executed and he was trolling doesn't sound right to me.


YonkoDrippy said:


> No just shows he is strong enough to not get trashed by one. Plus that fight was off panel


Kizaru would low diff Rakuyo if Kizaru was serious. The fact that Rakuyo and Marco gave the same difficulty to Kizaru showed how non serious Kizaru was.


YonkoDrippy said:


> A cuffed Marco lol. How could you ignore that he was literally cuffed in sea stone and still couldn’t put Marco down


Marco can't even use df due to sea stone. A good chance to get rid of Marco but Kizaru didn't do it. Hee just left Marcom there. It's clear from his fight with Rakuyo how not serious Kizaru was.


YonkoDrippy said:


> That’s different. He caught them off guard with Hax. Doesn’t matter if they got out he still managed to choke them


And King and Queen also didn't know Marco ability. Queen even didn't know Marco df ability lol. He was confused why his gun didn't work on Marco.


YonkoDrippy said:


> He still clashed with her. Look what happened when WCI Luffy tried to clash with her. He got blocked no diff and knocked out of G4, and Big Mom didn’t even use a named attack like how he did Marco. Reiju surviving that is clearly an outlier


Big Mom used CoA against Luffy. But when Big Mom used Heavenly Fire, Reiju took zero physical damage. Reiju didn't taake physical damage from the same attack Big Mom used on Marco was oda choice. Nothing impressive about clashing with Heaveenly Fire which did zero physical damage to Reiju. Heavenly Fire was elemental attack.


YonkoDrippy said:


> But they didn’t even mention the WBP, they mentioned Marco himself. Stop trying to switch up things stated in the Manga


Because WB was dead. Had WB alive, gorosei would mention WBP as yonko too along with BMP, RHP and Beast Pirates.


YonkoDrippy said:


> Marco has better feats then them not sure what u mean here


His feat clashing with non serious admiral which Dressrosa Luffy could replicate sure.


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## YonkoDrippy (Feb 27, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Kizaru still let marco live lol even after he shot him down. Didn't even capture Marco. Marco was trolling? Lol Ace was about to be executed and he was trolling doesn't sound right to me.


Bro what are you talking about lol. Kizaru needed to have Marco get cuffed by fucking sea stone of all things just to damage him. If anything that makes Marco look better than Kizaru does. And yes it’s clear Marco was trolling Kizaru in their clash


Dragon D Xebec said:


> Kizaru would low diff Rakuyo if Kizaru was serious. The fact that Rakuyo and Marco gave the same difficulty to Kizaru showed how non serious Kizaru was.


That fight was off panel


Dragon D Xebec said:


> Marco can't even use df due to sea stone. A good chance to get rid of Marco but Kizaru didn't do it. Hee just left Marcom there. It's clear from his fight with Rakuyo how not serious Kizaru was.


How do we even know Kizaru fought Rakuyo? Again, the fight was off panel and stop bringing up cuffed Marco. That’s irrelevant to his initial clash with Kizaru


Dragon D Xebec said:


> And King and Queen also didn't know Marco ability. Queen even didn't know Marco df ability lol. He was confused why his gun didn't work on Marco.


He choked them out with brute force alone. What ability do they need to know of? His only special ability is Regen which had nothing to do with him choking them out.


Dragon D Xebec said:


> Big Mom used CoA against Luffy. But when Big Mom used Heavenly Fire, Reiju took zero physical damage. Reiju didn't taake physical damage from the same attack Big Mom used on Marco was oda choice. Nothing impressive about clashing with Heaveenly Fire which did zero physical damage to Reiju. Heavenly Fire was elemental attack.


That’s clearly an outlier. It’s clear Prometheus strength varies since she was later about to wipe out the whole Strawhat crew with it. 


Dragon D Xebec said:


> Because WB was dead. Had WB alive, gorosei would mention WBP as yonko too along with BMP, RHP and Beast Pirates.


Doesn’t matter. They mentioned Marco himself  therefore the hype goes to him and no one else


Dragon D Xebec said:


> His feat clashing with non serious admiral which Dressrosa Luffy could replicate sure.


Marco wasn’t serious either lol. See how that works? Both of them weren’t serious so you’re point is easily debunked here.


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## Datassassin (Feb 27, 2021)

Admiral level characters do not consistently fail to inflict damage on each and every Admiral they battle, when fully serious and in the fight of their lives. Admiral level characters are not one-handedly choked by restrained and disadvantaged Yonkos, the general pirate equivalents to Admirals on multiple levels. Admiral level characters are not depicted as failing and struggling against actual Admirals despite having the advantages of surprise & numbers.

Also, Marco did not come out of the opening Kizaru exchange favorably past possible reader fascination with the visual of an explosion. Kizaru was 100% harmlessly kicked to the ground in his elemental form while stalled in mid-air and sustained no damage, nor did he use up any resources. Conversely, WB's "son" was riddled with holes that he had to heal from, drawing from his finite regenerative pool.

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## Vivo Diez (Feb 27, 2021)

The admiral level is overflowing and leaking to the sides

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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Bro what are you talking about lol. Kizaru needed to have Marco get cuffed by fucking sea stone of all things just to damage him. If anything that makes Marco look better than Kizaru does. And yes it’s clear Marco was trolling Kizaru in their clash


Ace was about to be executed. Why was Marco trolling when Ace fate was at stake? Kizaru didn't ask Onigumo to cuff Marco with sea stone. It was Onigumo own choice. Even before he was cuffed, Marco already bled from Kizaru attack. Still Kizaru didn't finish off Marco or even captured Marco. He just left marco there.



YonkoDrippy said:


> That fight was off panel


Doesn't change the fact that Rakuyo attacked Kizaru and there was panel Kizaru used shapeshit to dodge Rakuyo attack. Kizaru eithr lft him or wasn't serious just like he wasn't serious against Marco.


YonkoDrippy said:


> How do we even know Kizaru fought Rakuyo? Again, the fight was off panel and stop bringing up cuffed Marco. That’s irrelevant to his initial clash with Kizaru


Again that doesn't change the fact that Rakuyo attacked Kizaru and there was panel Kizaru used shapeshit to dodge Rakuyo attack. Kizaru either left him or wasn't serious just like he wasn't serious against Marco. 


YonkoDrippy said:


> He choked them out with brute force alone. What ability do they need to know of? His only special ability is Regen which had nothing to do with him choking them out.


He choked them with his df lol. Did Fujitora pin down Zoro with his brute force? Nope with his df. 


YonkoDrippy said:


> That’s clearly an outlier. It’s clear Prometheus strength varies since she was later about to wipe out the whole Strawhat crew with it.


There is nothing that indicate Heavenly Fire could be physical damage. Did Big Mom use Heavnly Fire against whole SH crews?


YonkoDrippy said:


> Doesn’t matter. They mentioned Marco himself therefore the hype goes to him and no one else


If Marco died gorosei would mention Jozu or Vista simple lol. Marco was mentioned because WBP was still the strongest pirates after yonko crews and Marco was WB right hand man.


YonkoDrippy said:


> Marco wasn’t serious either lol. See how that works? Both of them weren’t serious so you’re point is easily debunked here.


Again Ace was about to be executed and Marco wasn;t serious? That doesn't make sense. Luffy was't even seerious giveen he didn't use Gear Fourth, said his next attack outloud to Fujitora. Luffy was even still injured from DOflamingo attack and still could show good feat bruising Fujitora. Marco even didn;t leave a scratch to Kizaru while Dressrosa Luffy left a bruise to Fujitora. But that doesn;t mean Luffy is admiral level or close.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## GucciBandana (Feb 27, 2021)

No way, Marco isn't even at the level where he can be considered "Borderline Top Tier(Top Tier as in Yonko and Admiral level).

Marco's feats were not even close to "best in the series", even putting top tiers aside, somebody like Magellan's feats would be better than Marco's by a solid margin.
Marco is def not competing with MF Sengoku in term of feats, you can argue his overall feats might be better than MF Garp, but looked very bad in the direct confrontation. Sengoku's shock wave that made the entire Gura BBP bleed is leagues ahead of Marco's any individual feat.
With Fujitora, their feats are not related, if you are arguing for somebody like Doflamingo instead of Marco, this claim would make sense. But if you really wanna bridge Fuji and Marco feats together, clearly Fuji is ahead also, direct combat feat wise, Fuji made Zoro bleed instantly, who's cutting through Yonko techniques in the next arc he fights in; damaging Law pretty good. Marco doesn't have anything close in that department. Then you add that Island Level AOE feat with debris there, Marco really just can't compete.

Now let's break down the feats you listed individually:

- Keeping up with Kizaru.
Indeed, for 2 exchanges, which is prob one of Marco's most impressive feats to date, but not very convincing because: 1. it's very short, holds little weight in the long run, you have Carrot keeping up with Zoro in almost the same situation; 2. No concrete damage done, in comparison, Kizaru's brief exchange feats against WB was much much more impressive, because he actually hurt WB. I don't buy the Kizaru trolling argument though, I think Marco can actually annoy Kizaru briefly, he can do that to almost any top tier(Did to BM as well), but many characters can do the same, in fact Law annoyed Fujitora for longer.

- Chokehold King and Queen.
What does that even mean if nothing is done? Robin can hold Aokiji, even broke him into pieces; Raizo can choke hold Kaido with his blades; Jinbei can even shoulder throw BM. What's next? This feat is less impressive than his feat against Kizaru, because I think Kizaru is stronger than King + Queen, and this chokehold is even shorter than the Kizaru feat. And in recent chapter, you already see King pushing Marco back onto the ground, with bruises on Marco's face, so this chokehold didn't really go anywhere.

- Holding his own against BM.
Very strange logic here, since you consider Marco chokehold King + Queen as something impressive, but mention nothing about BM chokeholds Marco, which is clearly more severe in comparison, since you have panels of Marco worrying when Perospero was about to attack, indicating he doesn't actually have a way to deal with this chokehold. Seems pretty double standard here.
Did Marco look bad against BM? Nope, he looked mostly fine, since chokehold is something, but doesn't really get you anywhere far as stated before, and BM was complaining on the annoyance of dealing with Marco, however, Marco did not look any better than Jinbei vs BM. Was it better than Luffy vs Kaido? No, Marco vs BM was about 2 pages, the first 2 pages of Kaido vs Luffy, Luffy looked like the "winning" one...
Was BM vs Marco a W for BM or Marco? More for BM if anything, since Marco wanted to "stop her" from joining the battle field, but only succeeded briefly, then BM proceeded.

- Gorosei considered him Yonko level threat.
Nope that never happened, Marco was actually eliminated from being a Yonko level threat instantly when MF finished, therefore there was a missing Yonko spot, or else Marco can just succeed WB's spot. BB was considered to be ahead of the race when it comes to becoming a Yonko, ahead of anybody, while Marco was pretty much disqualified... Gorosei only considered Marco and WB remnants have a chance to stop BB from becoming a Yonko, not the same as Yonko level threat at all, this is no difference than Law saying Law + SH alliance have a 30% chance of defeating Kaido if Kaido war Doflamingo.  WBPR can stop BB from becoming a Yonko without beating him, like resist better, or taking out part of BB's crewmates for example, but they couldn't even do that, proving how much chance Marco actually had not only with action, but in his own words after.
Right after MF, BB wasn't even Yonko level yet, how can Marco be Yonko level?

- He’s the Vice captain of the strongest Pirate crew in the world.
No he's not, He is the Ship Doctor and First Division Commander of the Strongest Pirate Crew in the world.

- he fought every Admiral head on and none of them damaged him.
Wrong, I'm not sure what "head on" means to you, but Marco vs Aokiji was def not a head on fight, Marco vs Akainu possibly not a head on either, he confronted Akainu head on in collective with other commanders. However, if you consider Marco vs Aokiji head on, then Kizaru definitely damaged him, Kizaru made him vomit blood instantly when he was running to WB.

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## VileNotice (Feb 27, 2021)

Ruse said:


> This should be good...
> 
> Generally I’d say so, I think someone like Kizaru or Issho would need high diff to beat him. He’s been very impressive in the raid so far we can’t just chalk up his showings to ‘lol it’s MF’


If admirals beat you high diff and there’s no bad matchup, then you’re not admiral level.


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 27, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Easily Keeps up with Kizaru. When it comes to Kizaru, people love to wank him by saying “he was trolling lol”. But Marco wasn’t taking him serious either and he still fought on par with him. Whitebeard was his target so there was no way Kizaru was trolling there. He actually tried to kill WB and Marco stopped him.


Let's not compare Kizaru trolling to Marco not going all out lol Marco was serious, he wasn't going all out, Kizaru was straight up trolling



YonkoDrippy said:


> Chokeholds King and Queen at the same time. That’s easily an Admiral level feat. King is more than likely stronger than Katakuri who I’m sure most of you think would put up a fight against any Admiral. And then you have Marco casually ragdolling 2 people stronger or comparable to him. I can’t see someone like Fujitora doing this when he got pressured by G3 Luffy


We didn't have Marco ragdoll anyone. He stopped them for enough time to throw Zoro to the roof, but for all we know that lasted 1 sec and they released themselves imediately after. Now we see that he is fighting King alone, and they seem to be matched up well.

Let's not pretend that clash was anything other than plot forcing Zoro to be on the roof


YonkoDrippy said:


> - Clashes and holds his own against Big Mom. No one who’s only YC1 can hold their own against Yonko 1 vs 1. We already saw how start-of-Wano Luffy got 1 shot by Kaido. Who Big Mom stalemated. Which further proves Marco is Admiral level


Holds his own as in his DF matches up perfectly against BM, and then imediately is put in a chokehold that he can't free himself from and thinks "oh fuck"?
He was dispatched by BM as easily as Queen.



YonkoDrippy said:


> - The Gorosei consider him a Yonko level threat. And one of the only guys capable of beating Blackbeard. Yes, he lost to Blackbeard but we don’t know how strong Blackbeard was when he beat Marco. He could’ve easily been Yonko level by the time he beat him. He also has the 2 strongest fruits in the series so you can’t really downplay Marco for this


No they don't. Marco was the leader of the WB pirates after WB died, so he was the only one who had the man power to take WB's place. It's not about him being Yonko level, it's about having the strongest crew, the islands people's respect and acceptance.



YonkoDrippy said:


> - It makes sense for him to be Admiral level. He’s the Vice captain of the strongest Pirate crew in the world.


lolno it makes no sense for him to be admiral level.


Akainu made a fool of him
Kizaru trolled his face
Aokiji didn't even pay him attention
BM made a fool of him
Garp made a fool of him
BB delivered him an overwhelming L

Every admiral/Yonko level fighter he faced wrecked his ass or just plain ignored him.

Marco is FM level, nothing more.

Reactions: Like 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Well I can't say now can I, just wait for the latest chapter.
> 
> Also this is bs:
> 
> Marco's DF hard countered Big Mom's homie, then she instantly grabbed and immobilized him, proving he's nowhere on her level outside of the homie counter. It's like saying Kin'emon is admiral level because his fire cutting style cancelled Kaido's boro breath or Zoro is admiral level because he fire cut Prometheus.


Marco grabbed King and it seems like they’ve been fighting ever since, and you don’t say King is much weaker than Marco, I don't either.

Marco clashed physically with Big Mom for the entirety of the Kaido vs Scabbards fight. The devil fruit had nothing to do with anything. This is something Katakuri CAN'T do, nor Queen, Doflamingo, or any high tier you can think of. Marco would send these guys flying with his kicks.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Marco grabbed King and it seems like they’ve bern fighting ever since, and youn don’t say King is much weaker than Marco, i dont either.
> 
> Marco clashed physically with Big Mom for the entirety of the Kaido vs Scabbards fight. The devil fruit had nothing to do with anything. This is something Katakuri CANT do, or Queen, Doflamingo, any high tier you think of. Marco would send these guys flying with his kicks.


Attack Big Mom did against Marco was Heavenly Fire. It has nothing to do with physical strength. That attack one hundred percent is elemental attack.



That's the same attack Reiju tanked.



And Reiju didn't have any physical damage after she tanked it.





So yeah Marco feat against Big Mom is not physical feat. Reiju who tanked an attack which was Big Mom used on Marco didn't have any physical damage/injuries.

Marco still has zero ap feat. Luffy and Sanji can easily replicate Marco feat let alone Katakuri.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Marco clashed physically with Big Mom for the entirety of the Kaido vs Scabbards fight.


lolwut


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> lolwut


992-995


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> 992-995


Marco only fought Big Mom in chapter 995  with Marco was helpless and can't do anything once Big Mom choked him why are you lying so bad?


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Datassassin said:


> Admiral level characters do not consistently fail to inflict damage on each and every Admiral they battle, when fully serious and in the fight of their lives. Admiral level characters are not one-handedly choked by restrained and disadvantaged Yonkos, the general pirate equivalents to Admirals on multiple levels. Admiral level characters are not depicted as failing and struggling against actual Admirals despite having the advantages of surprise & numbers.
> 
> Also, Marco did not come out of the opening Kizaru exchange favorably past possible reader fascination with the visual of an explosion. Kizaru was 100% harmlessly kicked to the ground in his elemental form while stalled in mid-air and sustained no damage, nor did he use up any resources. Conversely, WB's "son" was riddled with holes that he had to heal from, drawing from his finite regenerative pool.





Vivo Diez said:


> The admiral level is overflowing and leaking to the sides


These are such emotional arguments  


VileNotice said:


> If admirals beat you high diff and there’s no bad matchup, then you’re not admiral level.


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> 992-995


That's an imaginative way of seeing things lol


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> These are such emotional arguments


Admiral level and this is before Onigumo came.

Reactions: Like 1


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## VileNotice (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> These are such emotional arguments


He was saying that he thought Marco would push Fujitora and Kizaru to high diff, and that makes him admiral level. To me, you need to push someone to extreme diff to be on their level, unless there is a clear matchup advantage at play.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> That's an imaginative way of seeing things lol


What are you talking about?

Marco vs Big Mom started at the same time Kaido vs the Scabbards started, and when Big Mom finally left, the events the took place in those three chapters had taken place. So it wasn't a timeskip. My point is that Marco was physically clashing with Big Mom for an extended period of time, we even see huge explosions in the background confirming that they were in fact going at it seriously.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> He was saying that he thought Marco would push Fujitora and Kizaru to high diff, and that makes him admiral level. To me, you need to push someone to extreme diff to be on their level, unless there is a clear matchup advantage at play.


Fujitora and Kizaru probably don't push Akainu past high-diff, are they not Admiral level? Your definition isn't wide enough. Maybe mid-diff works.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> Marco vs Big Mom started at the same time Kaido vs the Scabbards started, and when Big Mom finally left, the events the took place in those three chapters had taken place. So it wasn't a timeskip. My point is that Marco was physically clashing with Big Mom for an extended period of time, we even see huge explosions in the background confirming that they were in fact going at it seriously.


Marco vs Big Mom started at chapter 995 and ended at chapter 995 too. Again Big Mom used Heavenely Fire on Marco which did zero physical damage on Reiju since Heaveenly Fire is elemental attack so no physical feat from Marco.


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## xmysticgohanx (Feb 27, 2021)

I’m starting to agree.

1. Kizaru said a victory is determined in a single moment’s misstep

2. Big Mom said she doesn’t have the tools to fight him right now, after Perospero was unable to help her.

both of those imply at least a high level of parity

I am looking forward to the difficulty Marco beats King with. I’m hoping King doesn’t pass his regen limit. But we will see

Reactions: Agree 1


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## VileNotice (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Fujitora and Kizaru probably don't push Akainu past high-diff, are they not Admiral level? Your definition isn't wide enough. Maybe mid-diff works.


Imo post-skip Akainu is Yonko level, which is higher than admiral.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Captain Altintop (Feb 27, 2021)

What a bullshit thread haha ... This is nuts ... 

Yonko = Admiral, get this in your f*cking head bro.

Period. Waste of my time.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Imo post-skip Akainu is Yonko level, which is higher than admiral.


Ok, let's rephrase it then: "Marco is close to Admiral level".


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## VileNotice (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Ok, let's rephrase it then: "Marco is close to Admiral level".


This I agree is possible.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Ok, let's rephrase it then: "Marco is close to Admiral level".


If he's close to admiral level he won't be in this state when he fought Kizaru


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Marco clashed physically with Big Mom for the entirety of the Kaido vs Scabbards fight.


huh?


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> huh?


What?


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> What?


1. We don't know when they started clashing
2. We cut to them clashing using their DF powers, why would you assume they clashed "physically" beforehand?


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> 1. We don't know when they started clashing


We do: They started clashing as soon as Marco made his intent clear that he was stopping Big Mom at the front of Onigashima. Don't be dense. We know they were fighting for a while, and Big Mom was serious.


Vivo Diez said:


> 2. We cut to them clashing using their DF powers, why would you assume they clashed "physically" beforehand?


Huh?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Huh?





Shunsuiju said:


> *Marco clashed physically with Big Mom for the entirety of the Kaido vs Scabbards fight. The devil fruit had nothing to do with anything. *This is something Katakuri CAN'T do, nor Queen, Doflamingo, or any high tier you can think of. Marco would send these guys flying with his kicks.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> @Vivo Diez


Stop running in circles. Marco and Big Mom were fighting for the entire on-panel Kaido vs Scabbards fight. 992-995.

I want you to tell me why you think Big Mom and Marco weren't clashing physically.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Stop running in circles. Marco and Big Mom were fighting for the entire on-panel Kaido vs Scabbards fight. 992-995.
> 
> I want you to tell me why you think Big Mom and Marco weren't clashing physically.


No they didn't fight. Marco made his intention clear then it was cut to other battle. By the time we went back to Marco and Big Mom meeting, Oda showed us what happened after Marco made his intention clear in chapter 995

Aren't you the one running away from me because I debunk all your arguments?


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Stop running in circles. Marco and Big Mom were fighting for the entire on-panel Kaido vs Scabbards fight. 992-995.


Fight started at 991.


Shunsuiju said:


> I want you to tell me why you think Big Mom and Marco weren't clashing physically.


I asked first lol. You are literally doing what you accused me of doing - running in circles.

Why would you think they engaged physically when we cut to them using DF powers? It's up to you to provide the evidence that they weren't using their DFs beforehand.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Fight started at 991.


My point stands, the fight between Marco and BM lasted for a while.


Vivo Diez said:


> I asked first lol.
> 
> Why would you think they engaged physically when we cut to them using DF powers? It's up to you to provide the evidence that they weren't beforehand.


That's why I said "huh?" because I have no freaking idea what you're talking about. Can you explain what you mean by "clashing with devil fruits"? Were Akainu and Whitebeard not physically engaging each other because they were using their devil fruits in the clash?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> My point stands, the fight between Marco and BM lasted for a while.
> 
> That's why I said "huh?" because I have no freaking idea what you're talking about. Can you explain what you mean by "clashing with devil fruits"? Were Akainu and Whitebeard not physically engaging each other because they were using their devil fruits in the clash?



That was your own argument, do I need to quote it again?


Shunsuiju said:


> Marco clashed physically with Big Mom for the entirety of the Kaido vs Scabbards fight. The devil fruit had nothing to do with anything.



You're not debunking me, you're confused by your own premise


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> My point stands, the fight between Marco and BM lasted for a while.
> 
> That's why I said "huh?" because I have no freaking idea what you're talking about. Can you explain what you mean by "clashing with devil fruits"? Were Akainu and Whitebeard not physically engaging each other because they were using their devil fruits in the clash?


So Big Mom only used her fist on chapter 992 then after a while Big Mom started using Promtheus in chapter 995? Why ddin't use Prometheus at the start against marco? Big Mom used Prometheus ASAP against Reiju and Zeus against Judge but she chose to her bare hand against Marco after Marco made his intntion clear and then used Prometheus at chapter 995? that doesn't make sense.

And again Heavnly Fire Big Mom used on Marco did no physical injuries to Reiju. That's not physical feeat for Marco.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> That was your own argument, do I need to quote it again?
> 
> 
> You're not debunking me, you're confused by your own premise


Marco was punching Big Mom's fist engulfed in flame. The same way Whitebeard was punching Akainu's fist engulfed in magma. That's a physical clash.

You're the one saying the devil fruits are doing all the work. Or I'm misudnerstanding you? What are you saying?


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Marco was punching Big Mom's fist engulfed in flame. The same way Whitebeard was punching Akainu's fist engulfed in magma. That's a physical clash.
> 
> You're the one saying the devil fruits are doing all the work. Or I'm misudnerstanding you? What are you saying?


But that was at chapter 995 and again Heavenly Fire Big Mom used on marco did no physical injury to Reiju. That attack is elemental attack. That's not physical feat unless Reiju took physical injuries from Heeavenly Fire.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> Marco vs Big Mom started at the same time Kaido vs the Scabbards started, and when Big Mom finally left, the events the took place in those three chapters had taken place. So it wasn't a timeskip. My point is that Marco was physically clashing with Big Mom for an extended period of time, we even see huge explosions in the background confirming that they were in fact going at it seriously.


I'm talking about how Marco talking with BM in chapter 992 isn't a fight.
I'm talking about the Kaivo vs Scabbards fight started when BM was still in the middle of Onigashima, she attacked Luffy while the scabbards were fighting Kaido, was attacked by Franky, etc, was attacked by Jimbei and Robin, and then had a talk with Peros, and then had a talk with Marco.
I'm talking about BM going to the roof before Kiku's arm fell.

I'm talking about how in the manga, and not your imagination, the fight started and ended in 995.


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Marco was punching Big Mom's fist engulfed in flame. The same way Whitebeard was punching Akainu's fist engulfed in magma. That's a physical clash.
> 
> You're the one saying the devil fruits are doing all the work. Or I'm misudnerstanding you? What are you saying?


I don't see her punching.

Either way it's literally spelled out for you why Marco was standing a chance against her:


Marco's physical capabilities didn't have shit to do with it. It was just his DF.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)




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## Vivo Diez (Feb 27, 2021)

Big Mom: "Why is my devil fruit power being bested?"
Marco: "Haha, it is because the nature my devil fruit power!"

@Shunsuiju : "Clearly, had nothing to do with Marco's DF"

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> I don't see her punching.
> 
> Either way it's literally spelled out for you why Marco was standing a chance against her:
> 
> ...


She was punching, where did this come from?



She is wielding Prometheus and Zeus as boxing gloves and punching with them. There is nothing ambiguous about that.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Big Mom: "Why is my devil fruit power being bested?"
> Marco: "Haha, it is because the nature my devil fruit power!"
> 
> @Shunsuiju : "Clearly, had nothing to do with Marco's DF"


He is saying that in reply to Big Mom being shocked that Prometheus is being damaged, he's not saying his devil fruit is allowing him to clash with her.


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Hell fucking no.

If Marco is Admiral then the Current Luffy might as well be too and there’s no way in hell Marco is stronger than Luffy is right now.

Marco putting his faith in rookies to win this war but yet if he’s Admiral level why is he not dealing with Kaido and BM then???

You telling me an Admiral level character wouldn’t give Kaido or BM a tough fight all on their own???

Luffy needs five other guys to match Kaido and even that hasn’t been enough.

You telling me Marco is stronger than Luffy and 4 other guys combined???


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> She was punching, where did this come from?
> 
> 
> 
> She is wielding Prometheus and Zeus as boxing gloves and punching with them. There is nothing ambiguous about that.


Only Prometheus though and that attack was called Heavenly Fire with Reiju took without physical injuries so that's not physical feat. Anyone who is immune to fire can replicate Marco feat though. 


Shunsuiju said:


> He is saying that in reply to Big Mom being shocked that Prometheus is being damaged, he's not saying his devil fruit is allowing him to clash with her.


Any Germa with RS which is resistant to fire can clash with Heavenly Fire though since it did zero physical damage to Reiju.


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> She was punching, where did this come from?
> 
> 
> 
> She is wielding Prometheus and Zeus as boxing gloves and punching with them. There is nothing ambiguous about that.


Bruh you can even tell by how Big Mom's face is angled in the bottom panel that she's not punching


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2021)

Generally "on a lvl." means that characters are almost equal. So for sure they are strong enough to wound each over and give extreme diff or so. Marco can't wound admirals/yonko he had 3 tries (4 if we count BM) and failed all 3. This alone is enough to put him on a lvl. below since he can't even wound an admiral properly. Based on that he can't give more than mid. to any top tier.

Reactions: Like 1


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

The same guy who can’t even hurt a Top Tier and has no feats of doing such are Admiral level????

But yet when Luffy was walloping on Kaidos ass people were still saying that wasn’t shit downplaying him despite having BM and Kid shocked at what he did.... and people STILL said he wasn’t Admiral level.

Like please make it make sense guys.... I want some of you Marco fans to answer me this and tell me why I should put Marco at an Admiral level??

When we have fools on here who think an Awakened Luffy or a G5 Luffy would still be the weakest Admiral.

Somebody please make it make sense.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Bruh you can even tell by how Big Mom's face is angled in the bottom panel that she's not punching


So if she's punching, Marco is Admiral level?


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> Generally "on a lvl." means that characters are almost equal. So for sure they are strong enough to wound each over and give extreme diff or so. Marco can't wound admirals/yonko he had 3 tries (4 if we count BM) and failed all 3. This alone is enough to put him on a lvl. *below since he can't even wound an admiral properly.* Based on that he can't give more than mid. to any top tier.


He can't wound an Admiral?


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> So if she's punching, Marco is Admiral level?


Again that Heavenly Fire attack did zero damage to Reiju. And Marco neutralize an attack which did zero physical damagee with his df.  



Shunsuiju said:


> He can't wound an Admiral?


Dressrosa Luffy bruised Fujitora


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> So if she's punching, Marco is Admiral level?


I don't see how you can't comprehend the simple sequence of events. Marco bests Big Mom's homie due to elemental counter, then she ACTUALLY uses her physical strength and completely immobilizes him with a simple grab.

What does this sequence of events indicate to you? That Marco is a capable opponent against Big Mom outside of his DF counter against Prometheus? Really?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> He can't wound an Admiral?


Was Kizaru damaged here?


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> I don't see how you can't comprehend the simple sequence of events. Marco bests Big Mom's homie due to elemental counter, then she ACTUALLY uses her physical strength and completely immobilizes him with a simple grab.
> 
> What does this sequence of events indicate to you? That Marco is a capable opponent against Big Mom outside of his DF counter against Prometheus? Really?


It's not really that hard to understand.

Marco is punching, Big Mom is punching. They are clashing with each other physically causing enormous explosions the size of Onigashima. His devil fruit isn't doing anything but damaging Prometheus as a side effect.

But you didn't answer my question, if they are both punching each other, is Marco Admiral level?


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> It's not really that hard to understand.
> 
> Marco is punching, Big Mom is punching. They are clashing with each other physically causing enormous explosions the size of Onigashima. His devil fruit isn't doing anything but damaging Prometheus as a side effect.


It's not that hard to understand that Big Mom used Heavenly Fire which did no physical injuries to Reiju. Without his df Marco was helpless when he got choked

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> He can't wound an Admiral?


He tried 3 times. Kicked Kizaru but did no damage. Backstabbed Aokiji but did no damage. Attacked Akainu together with Vista but did no damage.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

By Shunsuiju logic then if Marco physically matched Big Mom, then Big Mom also can't hurt Kizaru and Aokiji too.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> He tried 3 times. Kicked Kizaru but did no damage. Backstabbed Aokiji but did no damage. Attacked Akainu together with Vista but did no damage.


Which means he can't wound an Admiral, so if he magically could wound an Admiral, what does that make him?


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Which means he can't wound an Admiral, so if he magically could wound an Admiral, what does that make him?


What does that make Luffy who could bruise Fujitora?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Which means he can't wound an Admiral, so if he magically could wound an Admiral, what does that make him?


Depends on how much. If only a bruise or scratch still way below. If kill, cut a limb or seriously wound internally possibly around the same.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> If kill, cut a limb or seriously wound internally possibly around the same.


If Marco tries to cut Kizaru with his talons, what happens?


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Marco is so strong look how badly damaged kizaru is 




Shunsuiju said:


> If Marco tries to cut Kizaru with his talons, what happens?


He looked badly damaged like in this panel


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Please stop this shit, Marco NEVER matched BM physically, he hard countered Prometheus with his flames the clash had nothing to do with physical strength

He used his wings that have healing properties and some weird affect on Prometheus flames  to hard counter the flames of Prometheus it never had anything to do with him matching BMs bare punch that’s literally not what was happening at all.

The thing with Reiju is something even I didn’t think about but it proves my theory right as Reiju was literally unharmed, and the RS have been stated to be fire resistant. If BM Prometheus attack had any physical strength tied to it then why was Reiju basically unscathed, because the attack is a pure elemental attack and not tied to BMs physical strength.

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Feb 27, 2021)

Marco was shown to be able to get past Kizaru and Aokiji’s intangibility and physically overpower them. What would have happened if he used his talons instead of a kick in those two situations?

Kizaru and Aokiji would have been bleeding.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> If Marco tries to cut Kizaru with his talons, what happens?


Nothing happens. We all know this.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Marco was shown to be able to get past Kizaru and Aokiji’s intangibility and physically overpower them. What would have happened if he used his talons instead of a kick in those two situations?
> 
> Kizaru and Aokiji would have been bleeding.





Corax said:


> Nothing happens. We all know this.


^


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Pre TS Luffy sent Aokiji flying. Pre TS Luffy is admiral level.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> ^


He used them vs Akainu. Panel is on the first page in this post  . Talons did zero damage.


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## A Optimistic (Feb 27, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Kizaru was trolling. He pretended to be hurt from Marco attack. he fought Rakuyo and Rakuyo survived. Is Rakuyo admiral level?



Strange comparison. We saw Rakuyo fail to get past Kizaru’s intangibility.

Marco successfully got past Kizaru’s intangibility, forced Kizaru to block his kick with his arm, and still got physically overpowered and sent flying to the ground.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> He used them vs Akainu. Panel is on the first page in this post  . Talons did zero damage.


He didn't touch Akainu. He touched Aokiji and Kizaru, so if he used his talons instead of kicking them away, he would have cut them.


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Pre TS Luffy sent Aokiji flying. Pre TS Luffy is admiral level.


Robin is admiral+. She broke him into many pieces. PK+ tier feat.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> He didn't touch Akainu. He touched Aokiji and Kizaru, so if he used his talons instead of kicking them away, he would have cut them.


He had many chances to do it on Kizaru but Kizaru was undamaged


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## A Optimistic (Feb 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> He used them vs Akainu. Panel is on the first page in this post  . Talons did zero damage.



Akainu isn’t Kizaru or Aokiji. He failed to get past Akainu’s intangibility but got past Kizaru and Aokiji.

If Kizaru is forced to block a kick with his arm, then the talon is slashing his arm unless he chooses to use his light sword to block it. And if he chooses to use his sword to block it, then you can’t say the talons would do nothing to him.


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> He didn't touch Akainu. He touched Aokiji and Kizaru, so if he used his talons instead of kicking them away, he would have cut them.


He did touch him. You can see two slashes on his body. One from Vista,another from Marco's talons.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Xebec, you're ignored. I can't see your posts.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> He did touch him. You can see two slashes on his body. One from Vista,another from Marco's talons.


No they didn't. If they did, Akainu would have been actually cut in half.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> Robin is admiral+. She broke him into many pieces. PK+ tier feat.


Page One also overpowered Sanji so Page One must be monster trio level. The logic used to hype Marco.  


Shunsuiju said:


> Xebec, you're ignored. I can't see your posts.


Users can see my posts how I debunked all your bullshit wanks


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## A Optimistic (Feb 27, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> He had many chances to do it on Kizaru but Kizaru was undamaged



Why do you keep spamming this panel? All it’s proving is that Kizaru was unable to do anything to Marco until Marco turned around and started focusing on Whitebeard’s health.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Why do you keep spamming this panel? All it’s proving is that Kizaru was unable to do anything to Marco until Marco turned around and started focusing on Whitebeard’s health.


Marco was bleeding even before Onigumo came. kizaru beat the dogshit out of Marco and Kizaru had zero damage during the whole time thy fought.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Akainu isn’t Kizaru or Aokiji. He failed to get past Akainu’s intangibility but got past Kizaru and Aokiji.
> 
> If Kizaru is forced to block a kick with his arm, then the talon is slashing his arm unless he chooses to use his light sword to block it. And if he chooses to use his sword to block it, then you can’t say the talons would do nothing to him.


To be fair WB failed to get past Kizaru's intangibility, but got past Akainu's. I see no reason to put them apart. Pre TS Akainu and Kizaru are equals.


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## A Optimistic (Feb 27, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Marco was bleeding even before Onigumo came. kizaru beat the dogshit out of Marco and Kizaru had zero damage during the whole time thy fought.



Show Marco bleeding before Whitebeard has a heart attack and Marco turns around and runs to Whitebeard.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Show Marco bleeding before Whitebeard has a heart attack and Marco turns around and runs to Whitebeard.


There was nothing indicating Marco was turning around in the panel. His regerenation hit limit thus Kizaru made him bled.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> To be fair WB failed to get past Kizaru's intangibility, but got past Akainu's. I see no reason to put them apart. Pre TS Akainu and Kizaru are equals.


Yes. Because Whitebeard and Vista/Marco missing Kizaru/Akainu on those occasions was probably not indicative of their haki level.


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Yes. Because Whitebeard and Vista/Marco missing Kizaru/Akainu on those occasions was probably not indicative of their haki level.


Unlike Marco he at least did some damage to admiral (Akainu in his case). Marco failed completely. Clearly WB's haki>Marco's.


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## A Optimistic (Feb 27, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> There was nothing indicating Marco was turning around in the panel. His regerenation hit limit thus Kizaru made him bled.



I feel like you’re not remembering what happened in Marineford.

Whitebeard has a heart attack. Marco then runs to Whitebeard. Kizaru then shoots Marco with lasers. Then the panel you keep spamming happens.

That’s the order of events.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Yes. Because Whitebeard and Vista/Marco missing Kizaru/Akainu on those occasions was probably not indicative of their haki level.


So Marco has trash accuracy while Dressrosa Luffy hitting Fujitora and bruised him? So much for top tier lol


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> Unlike Marco he at least did some damage to admiral. Marco failed completely.


You're lost in your own argument.

What you're saying is essentially that Marco cannot wound an Admiral, and his haki is too weak to get past their logia defense. But he got past Kizaru's logia by physically touching him and not warping through him. And if he used a sharp weapon like his talons, that would have caused Kizaru to be cut like against Rayleigh.

Same way Jozu, someone weaker than Marco, used his haki to get passed Aokiji's logia and cause him to bleed from his mouth.


Corax said:


> Clearly WB's haki>Marco's.


I know.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> I feel like you’re not remembering what happened in Marineford.
> 
> Whitebeard has a heart attack. Marco then runs to Whitebeard. Kizaru then shoots Marco with lasers. Then the panel you keep spamming happens.
> 
> That’s the order of events.


I don't think so. Marco yelled Old Man/Father. Then next panel we saw Marco was bleeding. No panel indicating Marco was turning around. And Marco regen also hit his limit it seemed which made Kizaru made him bled.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> You're lost in your own argument.
> 
> What you're saying is essentially that Marco cannot wound an Admiral, and his haki is too weak to get past their logia defense. But he got past Kizaru's logia by physically touching him and not warping through him. And if he used a sharp weapon like his talons, that would have caused Kizaru to be cut like against Rayleigh.


Marco can't hit Kizaru the whole time they fought while Luffy bruised Fujitora?


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> You're lost in your own argument.
> 
> What you're saying is essentially that Marco cannot wound an Admiral, and his haki is too weak to get past their logia defense. But he got past Kizaru's logia by physically touching him and not warping through him. And if he used a sharp weapon like his talons, that would have caused Kizaru to be cut like against Rayleigh.
> 
> ...


It isn't necessary so. Marco can physically touch Kaido and may be kick him away a bit,yet...well we all know that he isn't strong enough to wound him noticeably. It is logia+natural durability, not just logia.


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Marco was shown to be able to get past Kizaru and Aokiji’s intangibility and physically overpower them. What would have happened if he used his talons instead of a kick in those two situations?
> 
> Kizaru and Aokiji would have been bleeding.


He would have did the bare minimum at best, when we got Zoro and Luffy putting in work against Top Tiers like Kaido and people still saying they aren’t Admiral level Marcos case isn’t looking good for that because he might be capable of making Kizaru or Aokiji bleed a few drops of blood with his talons.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> It isn't necessary so. Marco can physically touch Kaido and may be kick him away a bit,yet...*well we all know that he isn't strong enough to wound him noticeably.* It is logia+natural durability, not just logia.


If he tried to maim Kizaru with his talons, would he at least cut him like Rayleigh did?

You have to prove the bolded by the way.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> If he tried to maim Kizaru with his talons, would he at least cut him like Rayleigh did?
> 
> You have to prove the bolded by the way.


So Marco accuracy is trash? Luffy hit Fujitora and even pushed him back with Gear Second.


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> If he tried to maim Kizaru with his talons, would he at least cut him like Rayleigh did?
> 
> You have to prove the bolded by the way.


Even if he for some reason was able to slightly cut Kaido or admirals this wouldn't be even enough to qualify for mid. diff in most cases.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

So now the qualification of admiral level is to damage them. if Marco cn damagee admiral with his talon that makes Marco admiral level.

Pre TS Luffy injured Garp so I guess pre TS Luffy is top tier.  

Standard of being admiral level becomes lower

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> Even if he for some reason was able to slightly cut Kaido or admirals this wouldn't be even enough to qualify for mid. diff in most cases.


Again, I know, you're stating the obvious.

That's why I need to prove that Marco is close to that level which I do in many ways:

-Clashed with Big Mom physically, if we assume that Big Mom is punching unlike Vivo Diez is doing, this means that Marco compete with Big Mom in a strength contest
-Overpowered Kizaru who is an Admiral with Admiral/Emperor physical strength
-Was portrayaed as an equal to the Admirals in Marineford. This is reinforced by the databook.

Now you have to counter these points or prove that Marco doesn't have the strength close to or on Admiral level like I'm claiming. I'm open to go through this with you or anyone else from the top, point by point.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Again, I know, you're stating the obvious.
> 
> That's why I need to prove that Marco is close to that level which I do in many ways:
> 
> -Clashed with Big Mom physically, if he assume that Big Mom is punching unlike Vivo Diez, this means that Marco compete with Big Mom in a strength contest


Big Mom used Heavenly Fire on Marco and it did no physical damage to Reiju though. Where is  Marco strngth when Big Mom choked him?


Shunsuiju said:


> -Overpowered Kizaru who is an Admiral with Admiral/Emperor physical strength


Kizaru is made of light so he might be weightless and pre TS Luffy seent Aokiji flying capiche?


Shunsuiju said:


> -Was portrayaed as an equal to the Admirals in Marineford. This is reinforced by the databook.


The same databook who said Vista swordmanship is superior to Mihawk capiche?


Shunsuiju said:


> Now you have to counter these points or prove that Marco doesn't have the strength close to or on Admiral level like I'm claiming. I'm open to go through this with you or anyone else from the top, point by point.


You ran away from me after I bodied you so hard for your Vista wank that it made you said Ronse>Mihawk


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Again, I know, you're stating the obvious.
> 
> That's why I need to prove that Marco is close to that level which I do in many ways:
> 
> ...


If he can't give them more than mid. obviously he isn't on their lvl. Rest is kinda not relevant. In some aspects he might be close (like physical strengh,since he stopped BM and Kizaru). But just 1 aspect isn't enough.


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## Captain Altintop (Feb 27, 2021)

We can say Marco is strong enough to hold is own for some good amount of time against any OPverse fighter.

His speed, reaction and timing seem to be on point. He could clash with Kizaru, Akainu and BM. 

The only thing which is putting him down are his destructive attacking power to hurt any top tier significantly.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Where is Marco reaction speed when Big Mom choked him? Old man Hyogoro could dodge Big Mom punch but Marco can't dodge Big Mom choke

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> If he can't give them more than mid. obviously he isn't on their lvl. Rest is kinda not relevant. In some aspects he might be close (like physical strengh,since he stopped BM and Kizaru). But just 1 aspect isn't enough.


Prove that he can only give them mid.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Prove that he can only give them mid.


Prove Luffy can give Fujitora mid


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## Captain Altintop (Feb 27, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Where is Marco reaction speed when Big Mom choked him? Old man Hyogoro could dodge Big Mom punch but Marco can't dodge Big Mom choke



Welcome to OP, where logic is nearly non existent 

Marco should have stopped explaining his blue flame abilities in the middle of the fight. He smiled and didn't seem that focused.
That was definitely his fault. no trying to find an excuse for him. 

And why can't BM just simply has top tier reaction too ? It's rather a positive feat for BM.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Captain Altintop said:


> Welcome to OP, where logic is nearly non existent
> 
> Marco should have stopped explaining his blue flame abilities in the middle of the fight. He smiled and didn't seem that focused.
> That was definitely his fault. no trying to find an excuse for him.
> ...


Katakuri CoO>>>>>>Big Mom CoO. During Wedding Cake, Big Mom relied on Katakuri for CoO since Big Mom CoO is so bad. So I think CoO is not Big Mom good stat. Reaction is connected to CoO imo. If your CoO is good, you can react better to incoming attack.

Marco reaction is just that bad. He was clashing with Prometheus and then when Big Mom reached her hand to grab Marco neck, Marco got choked and couldn't dodge it. We need to see the attack strength of Marco talon since Marco statically is only good in endurance due to his regen. And maybe also his haki feat like CoA and CoO feat.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Captain Altintop said:


> Welcome to OP, where logic is nearly non existent
> 
> Marco should have stopped explaining his blue flame abilities in the middle of the fight. He smiled and didn't seem that focused.
> That was definitely his fault. no trying to find an excuse for him.
> ...


Marco also relies on his df a lot to take damage so it's normal why his reaction is bad.  @Shunsuiju Did you just rate this post which quoted me   I thought you ignored me because you don't want to see my post. So you saw my post and expect others to reply to me instead of yourself since you're that scared?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Feb 27, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> I don't think so. Marco yelled Old Man/Father. Then next panel we saw Marco was bleeding. No panel indicating Marco was turning around. And Marco regen also hit his limit it seemed which made Kizaru made him bled.



You're remembering the events incorrectly. Marco did turn around to go to Whitebeard when he saw Whitebeard having a heart attack. While Marco is rushing to Whitebeard's side and is completely turned around, that's when Kizaru shot him in the back with lasers. Kizaru himself even says that fights can be won or lost in a single instance which indicates that nobody was winning the fight before Marco turned around. 

Kizaru was not anywhere close to making Marco reach his regeneration limit and I am not sure how you reached that conclusion. Especially when we later see Marco regenerating from Akainu's magma later on in the war. 








OG sama said:


> He would have did the bare minimum at best, when we got Zoro and Luffy putting in work against Top Tiers like Kaido and people still saying they aren’t Admiral level Marcos case isn’t looking good for that because he might be capable of making Kizaru or Aokiji bleed a few drops of blood with his talons.



What does Zoro, Luffy, and Kaido have to do with this discussion?



Dragon D Xebec said:


> So now the qualification of admiral level is to damage them. if Marco cn damagee admiral with his talon that makes Marco admiral level.
> 
> Pre TS Luffy injured Garp so I guess pre TS Luffy is top tier.



This is a disingenuous example. Garp allowed Luffy to punch him due to his love for Luffy. Garp didn't defend at all. Kizaru did attempt to defend from Marco's kick by blocking it with his arm and Kizaru was physically overpowered. This means that Marco has physical strength that's comparable to Kizaru. We also saw Aokiji get sent flying as well. If Marco did not have physical strength similar to Kizaru or Aokiji, neither of them would have moved. Especially when Kizaru tried blocking with his arm and Aokiji has his ice saber destroyed first which weakened the impact of Marco's kick and still got sent flying.



Anyways overall if there was a battledome style thread featuring Marco vs Kizaru and they were both going all out, I would give the win to Kizaru. Kizaru can block Marco's talons with his sword and can eventually overpower Marco's regeneration...at some point. It's just when people deny that Marco physically overpowered Kizaru/Aokiji, or make claims that he can't injure them when he already proved he can get past their intangibility that things get silly. 


Slightly off topic but we were having a discussion about Marco's talons the other day and you said we never saw Pell use his talons? Seems like all bird zoans like using their talons.

Reactions: Like 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Feb 27, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Let's not compare Kizaru trolling to Marco not going all out lol Marco was serious, he wasn't going all out, Kizaru was straight up trolling


Oh man the trolling excuse again. Marco was trolling as well incase you forgot or did you just choose to ignore that?


Strobacaxi said:


> We didn't have Marco ragdoll anyone. He stopped them for enough time to throw Zoro to the roof, but for all we know that lasted 1 sec and they released themselves imediately after. Now we see that he is fighting King alone, and they seem to be matched up well.


So when Marco chokes them out for 1 second it’s not impressive but when Big Mom chokes out Marco for 1 second it is impressive? Lol your so biased


Strobacaxi said:


> Let's not pretend that clash was anything other than plot forcing Zoro to be on the roof


Or Ora wanted to show how strong Marco is?


Strobacaxi said:


> Holds his own as in his DF matches up perfectly against BM, and then imediately is put in a chokehold that he can't free himself from and thinks "oh fuck"?
> He was dispatched by BM as easily as Queen.


That chokehold did nothing to Marco. Big Mom wasn’t even sure if she could Put him down for good


Strobacaxi said:


> No they don't. Marco was the leader of the WB pirates after WB died, so he was the only one who had the man power to take WB's place. It's not about him being Yonko level, it's about having the strongest crew, the islands people's respect and acceptance.


They literally mention his name along with other Yonko. It’s obvious they consider him a Yonko level threat


Strobacaxi said:


> lolno it makes no sense for him to be admiral level.
> 
> 
> Akainu made a fool of him


Blocks Akainu and literally stops him from killing Luffy


Strobacaxi said:


> Kizaru trolled his face


Literally kicked Kizaru hundreds of feet away and Beat him at trolling


Strobacaxi said:


> Aokiji didn't even pay him attention


Kicks him hundreds of feet away as well. And didn’t even attempt to fight him after that


Strobacaxi said:


> BM made a fool of him


Clashes equally with her. With Big Mom being unsure if she can even put down Marco


Strobacaxi said:


> Garp made a fool of him


gets caught off guard by Garp and still tanks his punch casually 


Strobacaxi said:


> BB delivered him an overwhelming L


A Blackbeard who became a fucking Yonko after that


Strobacaxi said:


> Every admiral/Yonko level fighter he faced wrecked his ass or just plain ignored him.


Every Admiral/Yonko level fighter struggled against him and had to resort to seastone cuffs or sneak attacks to damage him. Yea they totally ignored him


Strobacaxi said:


> Marco is FM level, nothing more.


Admiral level*


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> You're remembering the events incorrectly. Marco did turn around to go to Whitebeard when he saw Whitebeard having a heart attack. While Marco is rushing to Whitebeard's side and is completely turned around, that's when Kizaru shot him in the back with lasers. Kizaru himself even says that fights can be won or lost in a single instance which indicates that nobody was winning the fight before Marco turned around.
> 
> Kizaru was not anywhere close to making Marco reach his regeneration limit and I am not sure how you reached that conclusion. Especially when we later see Marco regenerating from Akainu's magma later on in the war.
> 
> ...


It has a lot lot to do with it.

We got people in here saying Marco is Top Tier and he can’t even hurt one... meanwhile we got Luffy and Zoro hurting Kaido and no one is saying they are Admiral level so why should anyone believe Marco is.... it’s a lot of contradictions going on in this thread.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> It has a lot lot to do with it.
> 
> We got people in here saying Marco is Top Tier *and he can’t even hurt one*... meanwhile we got Luffy and Zoro hurting Kaido and no one is saying they are Admiral level so why should anyone believe Marco is.... it’s a lot of contradictions going on in this thread.


I've disproven this if you actually read the rest of the thread.


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## A Optimistic (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> It has a lot lot to do with it.
> 
> We got people in here saying Marco is Top Tier and he can’t even hurt one... meanwhile we got Luffy and Zoro hurting Kaido and no one is saying they are Admiral level so why should anyone believe Marco is.... it’s a lot of contradictions going on in this thread.



All three of them have proven to be able to hurt a top tier. Beating a top tier is a different question entirely but all three have shown they can make one bleed if they want.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> You're remembering the events incorrectly. Marco did turn around to go to Whitebeard when he saw Whitebeard having a heart attack. While Marco is rushing to Whitebeard's side and is completely turned around, that's when Kizaru shot him in the back with lasers. Kizaru himself even says that fights can be won or lost in a single instance which indicates that nobody was winning the fight before Marco turned around.
> 
> Kizaru was not anywhere close to making Marco reach his regeneration limit and I am not sure how you reached that conclusion. Especially when we later see Marco regenerating from Akainu's magma later on in the war.


I forgot about that. Like I said I think Kizaru was trolling. Rakuyo also fought Kizaru alone but didn't low diff him. Rakuyo was fine after he fought Kizaru personally. The fact that Rakuyo and Marco gave the same amount of difficulty toward Kizaru showed Kizaru was not serious at all.


A Optimistic said:


> This is a disingenuous example. Garp allowed Luffy to punch him due to his love for Luffy. Garp didn't defend at all. Kizaru did attempt to defend from Marco's kick by blocking it with his arm and Kizaru was physically overpowered. This means that Marco has physical strength that's comparable to Kizaru. We also saw Aokiji get sent flying as well. If Marco did not have physical strength similar to Kizaru or Aokiji, neither of them would have moved. Especially when Kizaru tried blocking with his arm and Aokiji has his ice saber destroyed first which weakened the impact of Marco's kick and still got sent flying.


Kizaru was made of light and he was in midair so he might be weightless. Pre TS Luffy also sent Aokiji flying without haki. And Aokiji material made of ice is easily breakable. Doflamingo could free himself when Aokiji froze him.

Admirals are still humans. Anyone can send them flying like pre TS Luffy sent Aokiji flying toward the sky without haki in static position while Marco needed momentum from his flying toward Aokiji to send Aokiji flying.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

I don't know why some people don't just admit they have a different opinion and instead resort to looking like an idiot using horrible arguments to try and prove they are right. The only decent portrayal argument I can think of is:

-Marco having the same rank as Katakuri. But then you neccesarily have to apply this to Beckman as well, and my feeling is that most people don't want to rank Beckman as low as Katakuri.

There's not much you can use other than that, at least for me, because I admit that Marco, Jozu, Beckman etc. do not deserve the benefit of the doubt of being exactly equal to an Admiral or Emperor. Even then, there is a ton of portrayal pointing to Marco, Beckman, Jozu being close to Admiral/Emperor level where Queen, Katakuri, Jack, etc. don't have that.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> I don't know why some people don't just admit they have a different opinion and instead resort to looking like an idiot using horrible arguments to try and prove they are right. The only decent portrayal argument I can think of is:
> 
> -Marco having the same rank as Katakuri. But then you neccesarily have to apply this to Beckman as well, and my feeling is that most people don't want to rank Beckman as low as Katakuri.
> 
> There's not much you can use other than that, at least for me, because I admit that Marco, Jozu, Beckman etc. do not deserve the benefit of the doubt of being exactly equal to an Admiral or Emperor. Even then, there is a ton of portrayal pointing to Marco, Beckman, Jozu being close to Admiral/Emperor level than Queen, Katakuri, Jack, etc.


Aren't you the idiot one? If I am an idiot like you I would say Dressrosa Luffy is admiral level which makes Cracker and Katakuri admiral+ level but I didn't see one fight to determine someone power level.

You on the other hand only using Jozu vs Aokiji without looking at Jozu vs DOflamingo. Only looking at Vista vs Mihawk but didn't see Vista vs Ronse. Only looking Marco vs Kizaru and that made Marco admiral level but refuse using the same logic to admit  Luffy vs Fujitora made Luffy admiral level as well.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 27, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Oh man the trolling excuse again. Marco was trolling as well incase you forgot or did you just choose to ignore that?


Did you forget to read what you're quoting? Marco wasn't going all out but he was serious. Kizaru was just trolling. There's a difference.



YonkoDrippy said:


> So when Marco chokes them out for 1 second it’s not impressive but when Big Mom chokes out Marco for 1 second it is impressive? Lol your so biased



Yes, 1 second... Except not. And I don't remember King or Queen sweating and being clearly threatened...

*Spoiler*: __ 













YonkoDrippy said:


> That chokehold did nothing to Marco. Big Mom wasn’t even sure if she could Put him down for good


Lol and I'm the biased one.
The chokehold isn't supposed to do anything. Fact is he was clowned and easily stopped and had to be saved. BM never had any doubts whether he could put him down lol what the fuck are you talking about? She didn't want to be in the sidelines and Marco can't be taken out quickly due to his fruit.



YonkoDrippy said:


> They literally mention his name along with other Yonko. It’s obvious they consider him a Yonko level threat



They literally specify "with WB's Crew" when they mention him. It's obvious the crew is a gigantic part of his importance, and Marco is specifically mentioned because he is the new captain.





YonkoDrippy said:


> Blocks Akainu and literally stops him from killing Luffy


Fails to slightly damage Akainu with a cheapshot combined with Vista's cheapshot, has all the commanders+Crocodile to fight Akainu and still lose commanders

I would assume that in 2021 everyone knew that blocking attacks meant for other characters isn't as impressive, but I guess not?



YonkoDrippy said:


> Literally kicked Kizaru hundreds of feet away and Beat him at trolling


"man with wings kicks in midair a guy that can't fly and threw him to the ground" wow amazing



YonkoDrippy said:


> Clashes equally with her. With Big Mom being unsure if she can even put down Marco


Lol sure thing, getting choked out unable to free himself, be clearly threatened only to be ignored a second later
Specifically explains the only reason why he was able to exchange one hit equally with BM which is his fruit, but you still don't get it



YonkoDrippy said:


> gets caught off guard by Garp and still tanks his punch casually


off guard? He's flying towards Ace and Garp is sitting right next to Ace how was he caught off guard?
I think you mean wrecked so hard he never even tried to get to Ace after that.
Oh amazing the guy with a devil fruit that regenerates damage regenerated damaged, what an amazing feat huh?



YonkoDrippy said:


> A Blackbeard who became a fucking Yonko after that


A Blackbeard who ran away at the mention of an admiral. You know, a guy Marco is supposedly equal to? lol


YonkoDrippy said:


> Kicks him hundreds of feet away as well. And didn’t even attempt to fight him after that


And did jack shit? Just another cheapshot on an admiral that did absolutely jack shit, good job admiral level Marco!


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> They literally specify "with WB's Crew" when they mention him. It's obvious the crew is a gigantic part of his importance, and Marco is specifically mentioned because he is the new captain.


If you remove Big Mom from the BMP, does Katakuri and the children stand a chance against the Beast pirates?

The answer is NO.

So Marco with the Whitebeard remnants being compared to the Yonko is very very impressive portrayal.


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 27, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Watch out for spoiler.


oops thanks deleted that part can you delete the quote too


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> oops thanks deleted that part can you delete the quote too


Done


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> If you remove Big Mom from the BMP, does Katakuri and the children stand a chance against the Beast pirates?


With Kaido? No. Without Kaido? Yes.

BB wasn't as strong as a Yonkou, and the Gorosei knew it. He also had a crew of 10. It wasn't the Beast pirates

Could BMP without BM stand a chance against fresh Gura Teach and crew? Yes, most likely.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> If you remove Big Mom from the BMP, does Katakuri and the children stand a chance against the Beast pirates?
> 
> The answer is NO.
> 
> So Marco with the Whitebeard remnants being compared to the Yonko is very very impressive portrayal.


Marco was mentioned because WBP was still the biggest pirate crews after yonko. Remove Marco and gorosei would mention Jozu or Vista. Nothing impressive.

Reactions: Like 1


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> I've disproven this if you actually read the rest of the thread.


Not happening I should have been tagged in this thread  

There’s too much shit I have to read through.


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## gogcho (Feb 27, 2021)

My take is that Marco can fight the Admirals on equal footing for sure. The question is for how long? An hour? Two? A day? 
His healing powers will diminish eventually and he'll go down. I don't think he can hold off a C3 Admiral for 10 days.
So yeah, he can fight them on equal footing for some time.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> Not happening I should have been tagged in this thread
> 
> There’s too much shit I have to read through.


Optimistic and I have disproven that Marco not harming an Admiral garbage numerous times in this thread, just look a little.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> With Kaido? No. Without Kaido? Yes.
> 
> BB wasn't as strong as a Yonkou, and the Gorosei knew it. He also had a crew of 10. It wasn't the Beast pirates
> 
> Could BMP without BM stand a chance against fresh Gura Teach and crew? Yes, most likely.


You just pulled that out of your a**


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> You just pulled that out of your a**


Good argument.

You really think BB + 9 guys could handle BMP? lol how many times does the manga have to flat out say that you can't even reach the Yonko in a head on attack for you to understand that the Yonko crew is absurdly powerful?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Optimistic and I have disproven that Marco not harming an Admiral garbage numerous times in this thread, just look a little.


You didn't prove shit. All you have shown is Marco has garbage ass accuracy since what you said was Marco didn't attack admirals with his talon and if Marco attacked admirals with his talon hee would damage them which meaning his attacks failed to land on admirals and marco has garbage accuracy.


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## A Optimistic (Feb 27, 2021)

gogcho said:


> My take is that Marco can fight the Admirals on equal footing for sure. The question is for how long? An hour? Two? A day?
> His healing powers will diminish eventually and he'll go down. I don't think he can hold off a C3 Admiral for 10 days.
> So yeah, he can fight them on equal footing for some time.



Pretty much my thoughts as well. He can injure Kizaru/Aokiji and can survive for awhile due to his regeneration, but at some point Marco is losing. And Kizaru/Aokiji would have some injuries at the end of the fight.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> I don't know why some people don't just admit they have a different opinion and instead resort to looking like an idiot using horrible arguments to try and prove they are right. The only decent portrayal argument I can think of is:
> 
> -Marco having the same rank as Katakuri. But then you neccesarily have to apply this to Beckman as well, and my feeling is that most people don't want to rank Beckman as low as Katakuri.


Dressrosa Luffy while injured fought and even bruised Fujitora without using Gear Fourth. Why don't you use the same logic for Luffy instead of downplaying him to shit on BMP?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

I still don't understand why Kizaru couldn;t low diff Rakuyo? So Kizaru was serious and Rakuyo could still give a high diff fight to Kizaru? Is Rakuyo actually stronger than Jozu and Vista?


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Good argument.
> 
> You really think BB + 9 guys could handle BMP?


What do you mean? BB was being treated as one of the most unprecedented threats in history. That was the point of the conversation and why they brought up only the Emperor's being able to take him on. BB is someone who is so powerful because of his fruits, not his haki or fighting skill. So he was not so much weaker pre-ts than post-ts, I don't know why people act like he got so much more powerful.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> What do you mean? BB was being treated as one of the most unprecedented threats in history. That was the point of the conversation and why they brought up only the Emperor's being able to take him on. BB is someone who is so powerful because of his fruits, not his haki or fighting skill. So he was not so much weaker pre-ts than post-ts, I don't know why people act like he got so much more powerful.


BB ran away from Akainu. What yonko ran away from admiral?

Pathetic argument

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> What do you mean? BB was being treated as one of the most unprecedented threats in history. That was the point of the conversation and why they brought up only the Emperor's being able to take him on. BB is someone who is so powerful because of his fruits, not his haki or fighting skill. So he was not so much weaker pre-ts than post-ts, I don't know why people act like he got so much more powerful.


The BB who was with his whole crew and still ran away from Akainu is not the same as current BB who should be able to mingle with Kaido, BM and Shanks by himself and much less the PK contender BB who will fight Luffy in the end.

It's a question of plot, BB is a villain who grows stronger as the story progresses.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> The BB who was with his whole crew and still ran away from Akainu is not the same as current BB who should be able to mingle with Kaido, BM and Shanks by himself and much less the PK contender BB who will fight Luffy in the end.
> 
> It's a question of plot, BB is a villain who grows stronger as the story progresses.


That's because he didn't master his fruit and he literally said "I don't want to do that right now", so it's not like he was saying he would lose to Akainu and the marines with him, it's that he didn't want to fight him.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> That's because he didn't master his fruit and he literally said "I don't want to do that right now", so it's not like he was saying he would lose to Akainu and the marines with him, it's that he didn't want to fight him.


BBP ran away after clashing with Cipher Pol. imagine BMP or BP ran away after clashing with Cipher Pol. Another pathetic argument

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Feb 27, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> I forgot about that. Like I said I think Kizaru was trolling.



Which part of the war are you referring to when you say Kizaru was trolling? Can you elaborate? This is a vague statement that could be referring to any Marineford event.




Dragon D Xebec said:


> Rakuyo also fought Kizaru alone but didn't low diff him. Rakuyo was fine after he fought Kizaru personally. The fact that Rakuyo and Marco gave the same amount of difficulty toward Kizaru showed Kizaru was not serious at all.



Not sure how you can honestly think Rakuyo and Marco gave Kizaru the same amount of difficulty.





This is the only panel we see. Rayuko attacks Kizaru and is unable to get past Kizaru's intangibility. Kizaru makes zero effort to dodge or defend himself. There is also zero evidence that Kizaru even attacked Rayuko back. So there was not Rayuko vs Kizaru fight, it was simply Rayuko trying to harm Kizaru and Rayuko failing miserably.

Marco vs Kizaru on the other hand actually did have a fight. Marco did get past Kizaru's intangibility. Marco forced Kizaru to take a defensive stance and defend himself with his arm. Kizaru then got overpowered and was sent flying. Kizaru was later shown to attack Marco with four lasers. How is Marco's comparison comparable in Rayuko in anyway?




Dragon D Xebec said:


> Kizaru was made of light and he was in midair so he might be weightless.



Kizaru blocked Marco's kick with his human arm and got physically overpowered.




Dragon D Xebec said:


> Pre TS Luffy also sent Aokiji flying without haki.



Did Aokiji block Luffy's attack with his arm and get physically overpowered? Do you think Pre-timeskip Luffy could break Aokiji's guard?




Dragon D Xebec said:


> And Aokiji material made of ice is easily breakable. Doflamingo could free himself when Aokiji froze him.



Doflamingo breaking out of ice does not mean Doflamingo has the physical strength to break past an Admiral defending themselves from an attack, this was shown when Fujitora casually blocked Doflamingo's kick. 

In other words, we have one Admiral blocking Doflamingo's kick and not moving, and another Admiral who got overpowered by Marco's kick.





Dragon D Xebec said:


> Admirals are still humans. Anyone can send them flying



I'm confused. Aren't you supposed to be defending the Admirals? Making an argument that "anyone" can send them flying isn't helping your side.

Either way, no not anyone can send an Admiral flying if they choose to block the attack, stop insulting the Marine's Greatest Military Force. Did Fujitora go flying when he blocked Doflamingo's kick?

At the end of the day, you seem to be trying to come up with every excuse in the book. Ranging from "Kizaru was trolling" to "Everyone can send an Admiral flying". I'm not sure what you have against Marco that's forcing you to come up with so many excuses, but there is nothing wrong with the right hand man of the World's Strongest Man having comparable physical strength to an Admiral, especially when close quarter combat is supposed to be Marco's area of expertise. 

I'm not even saying that Marco would defeat Kizaru in a 1v1 fight with both parties going all out, Kizaru would probably win. But you're doing a lot of mental gymnastics and making a lot of weird and inaccurate comparisons just because you refuse to admit Marco overpowered physically and can injure Kizaru with his talons. Get over it. Marco isn't as weak as you try to make him out to be.


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Optimistic and I have disproven that Marco not harming an Admiral garbage numerous times in this thread, just look a little.


Nibba you havent disproven what I’m talking about. I think it’s obvious he should do “some” damage to an Admiral or a Top Tier with his talons but that doesn’t make him Admiral level in the same vain that both Luffy and Zoro aren’t Admiral level despite them being able to hurt Kaido and BM, two Yonkos.


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Dressrosa Luffy while injured fought and even bruised Fujitora without using Gear Fourth. Why don't you use the same logic for Luffy instead of downplaying him to shit on BMP?


He keeps ignoring this. Deliberately and on purpose lol.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> Nibba you havent disproven what I’m talking about. I think it’s obvious he should do “some” damage to an Admiral or a Top Tier with his talons but that doesn’t make him Admiral level in the same vain that both Luffy and Zoro aren’t Admiral level despite them being able to hurt Kaido and BM, two Yonkos.


That's right. It doesn't prove he's not Admiral level and it doesn't prove he is. Agree?


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> He keeps ignoring this. Deliberately and on purpose lol.


Me? Xebec is on my ignore list for a reason.

What am is he saying?


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> That's right. It doesn't prove he's not Admiral level and it doesn't prove he is. Agree?


So are Luffy and Zoro Admiral level????? I want you to answer that question instead of ducking and dodging.....

And if not please do explain how hurting the WSC is a negative feat for them but yet Marco failing to hurt Kizaru and any Admiral is a positive for him.

Lots of contradictions going on with the Marco legion.

You can’t pick and choose what feats you want to be acceptable.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> So are Luffy and Zoro Admiral level????? I want you to answer that question instead of ducking and dodging.....
> 
> And if not please do explain how hurting the WSC is a negative feat for them but yet Marco failing to hurt Kizaru and any Admiral is a positive for him.
> 
> ...


Lots of brain cells in this one here.


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Me? Xebec is on my ignore list for a reason.
> 
> What am is he saying?


You say he’s on your ignore list but yet you have been responding to him this entire thread....

EDIT: Whoops never mind.


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Lots of brain cells in this one here.


Bro ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!

Or concession accepted, I’m getting so tired of Marco fans treating his feats like he’s god, why can’t Zoro and Luffy be compared to Admirals for hurting the WSC????

Like I have been reasonable with you bruh, why you acting like this?


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## A Optimistic (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> why can’t Zoro and Luffy be compared to Admirals for hurting the WSC????



I made a thread saying Luffy would break Fujitora's jaw if he hit him with Red Rock and Fujitora purposely didn't defend himself. No biases over here.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> Bro ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!
> 
> Or concession accepted, I’m getting so tired of Marco fans treating his feats like he’s god, why can’t Zoro and Luffy be compared to Admirals for hurting the WSC????
> 
> Like I have been reasonable with you bruh, why you acting like this?


I don't know bruh

If Luffy kicked Kizaru to the ground like Marco or fought Big Mom for multiple chapters that would be p impressive

But I guess Marco legion is biased n that


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> I made a thread saying Luffy would break Fujitora's jaw if he hit him with Red Rock and Fujitora purposely didn't defend himself. No biases over here.


I mean I understand but.... 

So what about what actually happened in the manga, you know... when an injured Luffy was actually able to give Fuji a bruise or a slight scratch and knock him back with an EG/Rifle???


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## A Optimistic (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> I mean I understand but....
> 
> So what about what actually happened in the manga, you know... when an injured Luffy was actually able to give Fuji a bruise or a slight scratch and knock him back with an EG/Rifle???



Yeah Luffy did injure and push Fujitora back and Zoro did push Fujitora back as well. Only Doflamingo failed.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> I mean I understand but....
> 
> So what about what actually happened in the manga, you know... when an injured Luffy was actually able to give Fuji a bruise or a slight scratch and knock him back with an EG/Rifle???


but what r u getting at?


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> I don't know bruh
> 
> If Luffy kicked Kizaru to the ground like Marco or fought Big Mom for multiple chapters that would be p impressive
> 
> But I guess Marco legion is biased n that


Nibba Marco fought BM not only with a hard counter to her abilities but for a SHORT TIME. And in no time BM was able to grab him by the neck and nearly have him turned to candy by Perospero.

That same thing goes for Kizaru as well they had a short exchange.

Holding your own with Admirals and Top Tiers for a few minutes or a short period of time in general isn’t shit.

Are you telling me the Current Luffy couldn’t possibly last against Kizaru or BM??? Because that’s definitely not true man.

You are putting Marcos feats on some pedestal that no one else can reach all because he had short exchanges with Top Tiers.

What about him having to gang up on Akainu with a shit ton of WB Commanders and Crocodile? What about him doing 0 damage to either Aokiji or Kizaru? What about him getting choked up like a chicken about to get his head cut off by BM???

That’s a whole lot of negative you don’t want to acknowledge because you are being a blind fan of Marco.

But I’m sure you would be very quick to bring up flaws within Zoro and Luffy, but yet they hurt Top Tiers and they can’t get the same respect.... it’s plain damn bias and I’m so sick of it.


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Yeah Luffy did injure and push Fujitora back and Zoro did push Fujitora back as well. Only Doflamingo failed.


And despite that who says DR Luffy is Admiral level or close? Nobody and for good reason.

Its almost as if Admirals can’t hold back like any other character in the series.

Marco just isn’t Admiral level he’s just a FM level or Low Top Tier guy imo.


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> but what r u getting at?


That you can seem to acknowledge Marco as an Admiral tier character despite him doing no damage to Top tiers but yet easily dismiss Luffy and Zoro as Admiral tier characters despite Luffy hurting Fujitora and Luffy and Zoro hurting Kaido with their attacks.

And why Is that? It’s pretty simple, because you can acknowledge those characters as holding back, but yet you aren’t willing to use this logic for Marco and any fight he’s been in with a Top Tier.....

It’s some very biased logic.


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## YonkoDrippy (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> That you can seem to acknowledge Marco as an Admiral tier character despite him doing no damage to Top tiers but yet easily dismiss Luffy and Zoro as Admiral tier characters despite Luffy hurting Fujitora and Luffy and Zoro hurting Kaido with their attacks.
> 
> And why Is that? It’s pretty simple, because you can acknowledge those characters as holding back, but yet you aren’t willing to use this logic for Marco and any fight he’s been in with a Top Tier.....
> 
> It’s some very biased logic.


Marco is Admiral level kid deal with it


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> Nibba Marco fought BM not only with a hard counter to her abilities but for a SHORT TIME. And in no time BM was able to grab him by the neck and nearly have him turned to candy by Perospero.
> 
> That same thing goes for Kizaru as well they had a short exchange.
> 
> ...


What Im saying is that if this is Luffy:




Then I might consider him as strong as I consider Marco

Reactions: Funny 1


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Marco is Admiral level kid deal with it


No rebuttals to my claims?? Concession accepted then.

Marco isn’t going to be Admiral level because you like him and he’s a cool blue Phoenix lol.


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> What Im saying is that if this is Luffy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is some very very garbage arguments.

I have panels of Luffy actually hurting Kaido with his attacks and that same BM in that picture you showed was looking scared shitless....

How do you explain that shit???? You show me some scan of Marco clashing with BM with a hard counter to Prometheus and then show me him knocking back Kizaru doing 0 damage....

Wheres Marcos feats of doing everything I said in the first paragraph at???? How is doing 0 to Kizaru and Hard countering Prometheus which is something Zoro has done with the foxfire style, how does that prove that Marco is Admiral tier????


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> This is some very very garbage arguments.
> 
> I have panels of Luffy actually hurting Kaido with his attacks and that same BM in that picture you showed was looking scared shitless....
> 
> ...




"Marco is one of the oldest but also one of the most powerful members of the Whitebeard Crew, so much so that Shanks himself respects him. In the war at the top, he faced naval admirals on an equal footing and supported Luffy. His role was preponderant in the battle"


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

And Shunsuiju im finna end your shit.

You telling me Luffy doesn’t have a single attack in his arsenal that can possibly clash with BMs heavenly fire, but yet you believe that a casual ass Marco can stalemate a punch from BM? (Which isn’t true at all as I and Xebec have already proved wrong in this thread).

Yeah your ass is done.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> You telling me Luffy doesn’t have a single attack in his arsenal that can possibly clash with BMs heavenly fire


Yes

And Marco wasn't casual, he was very serious, look at his face

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> "Marco is one of the oldest but also one of the most powerful members of the Whitebeard Crew, so much so that Shanks himself respects him. In the war at the top, he faced naval admirals on an equal footing and supported Luffy. His role was preponderant in the battle"


I’m not going off vivre card bullshit, I go off what I saw in the manga and there’s plenty of instances where that even footing bullshit is a lie,  where was he on even footing with an Admiral when he needed a shit ton of WB commanders and Crocodile to back him up against Akainu and an Army of marine fodder?


And as I have already explained to you before, that info is only telling you their own interpretation of what they saw, on the surface it totally looked like Marco and Kizaru were on even footing with each other but we are talking about a short exchange, and one that did not go favorably for Marco once he let his guard down.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> I’m not going off vivre card bullshit, I go off what I saw in the manga and there’s plenty of instances where that even footing bullshit is a lie,  where was he on even footing with an Admiral when he needed a shit ton of WB commanders and Crocodile to back him up against Akainu and an Army of marine fodder?
> 
> 
> *And as I have already explained to you before, that info is only telling you their own interpretation of what they saw*, on the surface it totally looked like Marco and Kizaru were on even footing with each other but we are talking about a short exchange, and one that did not go favorably for Marco once he let his guard down.


i don't know if you're serious or not


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Yes
> 
> And Marco wasn't casual, he was very serious, look at his face


So Marco can clash with a KKG, a Current KKG with the attack he used against BM with no issues..





Yeah you are done, finished.



Shunsuiju said:


> i don't know if you're serious or not


You know exactly what the fuck I’m talking about, they arent saying anything as if it’s a fact and they have talked to the author and confirmed this.

They are saying what they saw and what happened was Marco and Kizaru had a short exchange that was even, with neither hurting the other.

Not sure why you are nitpicking sentences and not reading everything I am saying, you make yourself look real ignorant doing that.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> So Marco can clash with a KKG, a Current KKG with the attack he used against BM with no issues..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I think a KKG can clash with Big Meme.



OG sama said:


> You know exactly what the fuck I’m talking about, they arent saying anything as if it’s a fact and they have talked to the author and confirmed this.
> 
> They are saying what they saw and what happened was Marco and Kizaru had a short exchange that was even, with neither hurting the other.
> 
> Not sure why you are nitpicking sentences and not reading everything I am saying, you make yourself look real ignorant doing that.


Some random guy from Shueisha isn't publishing the official OP databook, so if the interpretation of the people who wrote this is that Marco was someone as strong (on equal footing) with the Admirals then what the fuck


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Yeah I think a KKG can clash with Big Meme.


So Kong Gatling the same attack that had BM looking scared shitless would get countered easily by heavenly fire.... the same attack that couldn’t even hurt Reiju....

 But yet it only makes sense for Luffys ultimate attack to be as strong as a casual attack from BM, and Marco can totally clash with a Top tier with a casual ass attack...

Like you don’t even know how stupid this shit you say sounds....



Shunsuiju said:


> Some random guy from Shueisha isn't publishing the official OP databook, so if the interpretation of the people who wrote this is that Marco was someone as strong (on equal footing) with the Admirals then what the fuck


Is it Oda? Cause if it’s not it’s nothing more than an interpretation of one scene which I explained was short to begin with that showed that the two were on even footing.

It’s completely contradicted by his feats against Akainu, needing a shit ton of WB commanders and Crocodile backing him up against Akainu and an army of Marine fodder, as well as him not doing shit to any Admirals with his attacks as well as not even hurting Akainu with Vistas help.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> Is it Oda? Cause if it’s not it’s nothing more than an interpretation of one scene which I explained was short to begin with that showed that the two were on even footing.
> 
> It’s completely contradicted by his feats against Akainu, needing a shit ton of WB commanders and Crocodile backing him up against Akainu and an army of Marine fodder, as well as him not doing shit to any Admirals with his attacks as well as not even hurting Akainu with Vistas help.


The databook is written by people close to Oda because it reveals shit about the manga like characters names. If the people (who are close to Oda and talk to him on weekly basis) feeding information into the writing team of the databook are saying: "Marco is one of the oldest but also one of the most powerful members of the Whitebeard Crew, so much so that *Shanks himself respects him*. *In the war at the top, he faced naval admirals on an equal footing* ( this doesnt mean he just fought them on equal footing, it means he is someone on equal standing/footing with them ) and supported Luffy. *His role was preponderant in the battle" *then i think its pretty freaking credible information.

Put yourself in weekly Marineford, and be honest, does the idea that Marco was respected by Shanks, on equal footing with Admirals, and super influential to the war of the best sound so off to you?


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## YonkoDrippy (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> No rebuttals to my claims?? Concession accepted then.
> 
> Marco isn’t going to be Admiral level because you like him and he’s a cool blue Phoenix lol.


What claims?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> The databook is written by people close to Oda because it reveals shit about the manga like characters names. If the people (who are close to Oda and talk to him on daily basis) feeding information into the writing team of the databook are saying: "Marco is one of the oldest but also one of the most powerful members of the Whitebeard Crew, so much so that *Shanks himself respects him*. *In the war at the top, he faced naval admirals on an equal footing* ( this doesnt mean he just fought them on equal footing, it means he is someone on equal standing/footing with them ) and supported Luffy. *His role was preponderant in the battle" *then i think its pretty freaking credible information.
> 
> Put yourself in weekly Marineford, and be honest, does the idea that Marco was respected by Shanks, on equal footing with Admirals, and super influential to the war of the best sound so off to you?


It also has plenty of contradictions, Marco fighting on equal footing with Marine Admirals plural is in fact a contradiction to what we saw against Akainu and Marco having a shit ton of WB Commanders backing him up against Akainu and Marine fodder.

They might be close with Oda but they aren’t Oda, they are interpreting the shit they saw as anyone can, and before you try to laugh at me saying something like this, explain to me the Akainu shit then? You telling me Crocodile and the WB Commanders were only helping Marco fight the army of fodder behind him? That explains why Curiel got his ass KOed by Akainu right? That explains Marco and Vista being completely unable to stop him right?

Akainu went at that entire damn army of commanders with Marine fodder behind him, if Marco was Admiral level this should have been very very easy with the help he had, but yet that wasn’t the case as they failed to do anything to even an injured Akainu.


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> What claims?


The one you responded to, to begin with...   


You gone comment on a post of mine that wasn’t addressed to you and then not only to say some BS but to completely forget about it lol.

Drippy are you high my brother?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> It also has plenty of contradictions, Marco fighting on equal footing with Marine Admirals plural is in fact a contradiction to what we saw against Akainu and Marco having a shit ton of WB Commanders backing him up against Akainu and Marine fodder.


You don't understand what it's saying. It's saying that Marco faced multiple Admirals (which he did) and that he is on par with them. Not that he fought on par with them in clashes.

Il a affronte (confront ) d’égal à égal les Amiraux de la marine

1.  (= personne) equal
d’égal à égal *as equals*


OG sama said:


> They might be close with Oda but they aren’t Oda, they are interpreting the shit they saw as anyone can, and before you try to laugh at me saying something like this, explain to me the Akainu shit then? You telling me Crocodile and the WB Commanders were only helping Marco fight the army of fodder behind him? That explains why Curiel got his ass KOed by Akainu right? That explains Marco and Vista being completely unable to stop him right?


Nah I'm going to laugh at the guy who disputes the "interpretation of Oda's closest advisors" because its too funny not to 


OG sama said:


> Akainu went at that entire damn army of commanders with Marine fodder behind him, if Marco was Admiral level this should have been very very easy with the help he had, but yet that wasn’t the case as they failed to do anything to even an injured Akainu.


Cool story bro.


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> You don't understand what it's saying. It's saying that Marco faced multiple Admirals (which he did) and that he is on par with them. Not that he fought on par with them in clashes.
> 
> Nah I'm going to laugh at the guy who disputes the "interpretation of Oda's closest advisors" because its too funny not to
> 
> Cool story bro.


I’m not a vivre card expert, but I’m sure there’s some people here that know the stuff within them aren’t the most reliable source.

Im going to leave that alone for now.

All I know is, if Marco was an Admiral level character he would totally be strong enough to nearly take on Kaido or BM with no help and possibly win, that hasn’t been his portrayal so far, his portrayal has been he’s obviously going to be going against King and struggling to win but he will eventually win against him.

But nothing Admiral level maybe Yonko FM or Low Top Tier which is still close.


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## A Optimistic (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> "Marco is one of the oldest but also one of the most powerful members of the Whitebeard Crew, so much so that Shanks himself respects him. In the war at the top, he faced naval admirals on an equal footing and supported Luffy. His role was preponderant in the battle"



Which databook is this from? Very cool.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Which databook is this from? Very cool.


Blue Deep I believe.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

OG sama said:


> I’m not a vivre card expert, but I’m sure there’s some people here that know the stuff within them aren’t the most reliable source.
> 
> Im going to leave that alone for now.
> 
> ...


What happens if Marco is as strong as we're saying he is? If you go through everything you've said so far, do you think you could reconcile any of it?


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> What happens if Marco is as strong as we're saying he is? If you go through everything you've said so far, do you think you could reconcile any of it?


Yep I have always been pretty reasonable with you.

If I’m wrong I’m wrong, I’m not sold but he could totally prove me wrong, he’s got plenty of time to do so.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Which part of the war are you referring to when you say Kizaru was trolling? Can you elaborate? This is a vague statement that could be referring to any Marineford event.


Kizaru preetended to be hurt. Shot down Marco and let Marco live didn't capture Marco.


A Optimistic said:


> Not sure how you can honestly think Rakuyo and Marco gave Kizaru the same amount of difficulty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kizaru stlll didn't low diff Rakuyo. He just left Rakuyo or wasn't serious. If Kizaru was serious he would low diff Rakuyo.



A Optimistic said:


> Kizaru blocked Marco's kick with his human arm and got physically overpowered.


Kizaru was weightless and Marco had gravity advantage due to kicking Kizaru downward and gravity favours downward force.



A Optimistic said:


> Did Aokiji block Luffy's attack with his arm and get physically overpowered? Do you think Pre-timeskip Luffy could break Aokiji's guard?


Aokiji blocked Marco kick with his ice spear and again that ice material is easily breakable since Doflamingo could broke from Aokiji freezing. Both still hit Aokiji real body and sent Aokiji flying. Luffy even didn't use CoA while Marco had to use CoA.


A Optimistic said:


> Doflamingo breaking out of ice does not mean Doflamingo has the physical strength to break past an Admiral defending themselves from an attack, this was shown when Fujitora casually blocked Doflamingo's kick.
> 
> In other words, we have one Admiral blocking Doflamingo's kick and not moving, and another Admiral who got overpowered by Marco's kick.


lol that was just weakass Doflamingo kick and Doflamingo was in static position. Luffy pushed back Fujitora with Gear Second and even while being bandaged. One sword Zoro pushed back Fujitora while pinned by gravity but two swords Zoro with higher attack power got blocked by Denjiro.


A Optimistic said:


> I'm confused. Aren't you supposed to be defending the Admirals? Making an argument that "anyone" can send them flying isn't helping your side.
> 
> Either way, no not anyone can send an Admiral flying if they choose to block the attack, stop insulting the Marine's Greatest Military Force. Did Fujitora go flying when he blocked Doflamingo's kick?
> 
> ...


lol what kind of excuse. Yes Page One sent Sanji flying but do you think Page One is monster trio level? Even Sanji was confideent usopp would beat him.

Yes Kizaru was trolling. Why didn't Kizaru low diff Rakuyo if he was serious? Why didn't Kizaru kill marco and let him live?

Dressrosa Luffy also fought Fujitora to a sstandstill but why didn't Luffy get the recognition of admiral level but only Marco get it? Why so biased?


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Me? Xebec is on my ignore list for a reason.
> 
> What am is he saying?


You just pussied out andafraid to admit to use the same logic to Luffy vs Fujitora but carry on.



Shunsuiju said:


> What Im saying is that if this is Luffy:
> 
> *Spoiler*:


And that was Heavenly Fire which Big Mom also used on Reiju and Reiju took it with no damage. And when Marco got choked he was helpless against Big Mom strength. SO no physical feat.  



Shunsuiju said:


> Yes
> 
> And Marco wasn't casual, he was very serious, look at his face


Again that was Heavnly Fire and did zero physical damage to Reiju. SO no physical feat from Marco. The moment didn't use hr homie but use her physical strength by grabbing Marco by the neck Marco was helpless


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## GucciBandana (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Fujitora and Kizaru probably don't push Akainu past high-diff, are they not Admiral level? Your definition isn't wide enough. Maybe mid-diff works.



Aokiji pushed Akainu to extreme extreme diff, how can Kizaru, somebody who's portrayed to be between Akainu(a little worse than) and Aokiji(a little better than) throughout MF, feats wise alike, not push Akainu past high-diff??
Makes no sense to me.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> The databook is written by people close to Oda because it reveals shit about the manga like characters names. If the people (who are close to Oda and talk to him on weekly basis) feeding information into the writing team of the databook are saying: "Marco is one of the oldest but also one of the most powerful members of the Whitebeard Crew, so much so that *Shanks himself respects him*. *In the war at the top, he faced naval admirals on an equal footing* ( this doesnt mean he just fought them on equal footing, it means he is someone on equal standing/footing with them ) and supported Luffy. *His role was preponderant in the battle" *then i think its pretty freaking credible information.
> 
> Put yourself in weekly Marineford, and be honest, does the idea that Marco was respected by Shanks, on equal footing with Admirals, and super influential to the war of the best sound so off to you?


Some databook also said Sabo was dead.   

Yes equal footing with non serious admiral. Databook talking about non serious Kizaru. 

VIsta also look like he had equal footing with Mihawk but it is clear that was non serious Mihawk. 

Re you thinking the admiral mentioned in databook is full power admiral?



Shunsuiju said:


> You don't understand what it's saying. It's saying that Marco faced multiple Admirals (which he did) and that he is on par with them. Not that he fought on par with them in clashes.
> 
> Il a affronte (confront ) d’égal à égal les Amiraux de la marine
> 
> ...


Databook says MF admiral aka non serious admiral. Does databook mention fullpower admiral?



Shunsuiju said:


> What happens if Marco is as strong as we're saying he is? If you go through everything you've said so far, do you think you could reconcile any of it?


So if Luffy is as strong as we have seen so far based his fight with Fujitora just how strong Cracker is who no diff Luffy?


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Databook says MF admiral aka non serious admiral. Does databook mention fullpower admiral?


Il a affronte d’égal à égal les Amiraux de la marine

he (marco) confronts admiral as equal.


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## Jo Ndule (Feb 27, 2021)

Imagine using hybrid /awakening but still cant hurt your opponents
Can't do much
Gets bested or trolled easily 

"Admiral level"
Losing low diff to Pre Yonko Teach?
Choked easily by Linlin?
Wasn't Yonko candidate even despite having averything under him 
*spoilers * vs King 
Rivaled by Perospero 

Keeping living in 2010 during MF war,
Jinbei also looked like a top tier at MF or WCI vs Linlin but at Wano, jinbei is matched by WhoWho and Marco matched by King


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Il a affronte d’égal à égal les Amiraux de la marine
> 
> he (marco) confronts admiral as equal.


Yeah MF admiral aka non serious admiral. It telll what happened in MF. Databook would even say Rakuyo confronts admiral as equal


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 27, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Yeah MF admiral aka non serious admiral. It telll what happened in MF. Databook would even say Rakuyo confronts admiral as equal


imagine being so butthurt that katakuri lost to luffy


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## Jo Ndule (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Il a affronte d’égal à égal les Amiraux de la marine
> 
> he (marco) confronts admiral as equal.


Stop posting old databooks nonsense 

New feats since MF she's you that Marco was never Admiral level

No Admiral needs 14 other dudes to try stall an injured Admiral 
No admirals gets low diffed by Teach or yonko
No Admiral will be rivaled by Perospero


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> imagine being so butthurt that katakuri lost to luffy


Imagineso butthurt that Katakuri would beat the shit out of Fujitora while Marco won't do shit to Fujitora.  



Shunsuiju said:


> imagine being so butthurt that katakuri lost to luffy


Databook would even say VIsta who needed backup against Ronse confronted Mihawk as equal. Databook retells what happened in MF.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Databook retells what happened in MF.


"marco confronts admiral as equal" is not retelling its stating a fact.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> stating


Databook retells what happened in MF and yes in MF he confronted admirals if you read the manga. Yes he looked equal even Rakuyo looked equal to Kizaru lmfao. It doesn't specify serious or non serious admiral but databook tells Marco confronted MF admiral which means non serious admiral since even Rakuyo looked equal to Kizaru.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Databook retells what happened in MF and yes in MF he confronted admirals if you read the manga. Yes he looked equal even Rakuyo looked equal to Kizaru lmfao. It doesn't specify serious or non serious admiral but databook tells Marco confronted MF admiral which means non serious admiral since even Rakuyo looked equal to Kizaru.


he faced admirals = retelling

as equal = fact


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> he faced admirals = retelling
> 
> as equal = fact


As equal to non serious admiral yes. And this is backed by Rakuyo looked equal to Kizaru which means Kizaru must have been not serious if Rakuo survived a fight against him.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> As equal to non serious admiral yes. And this is backed by Rakuyo looked equal to Kizaru which means Kizaru must have been not serious if Rakuo survived a fight against him.


I get english is not your first language but "as equal" means he is there equal not "he fought them to a standstill"


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> I get english is not your first language but "as equal" means he is there equal not "he fought them to a standstill"


I get your reading comprehension is garbage but databook says equal as admiral that Marco confronted at MF which meeans non serious admiral since Rakuyo looked equal to Kizaru.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> I get your reading comprehension is garbage but databook says equal as admiral that Marco confronted at MF which meeans non serious admiral since Rakuyo looked equal to Kizaru.


Nope. databook said Marco has equal standing/power to an Admiral.


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## Djomla (Feb 28, 2021)

Nope.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Nope. databook said Marco has equal standing/power to an Admiral.


You said Marco confronted admiral as equal don;t backtrack and admiral Marco confronted was Kizaru who looked equal to Rakuyo. So yes Marco confronted non serious kizaru as equal I agree.


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## Furinji Saiga (Feb 28, 2021)

You would think the war made it clear and who Marco is being matched against right now and paralleled with would make it obvious. 

But nope. Some wanker has to come in and act like the Blue Turkey is on par with a top tier...

Marco is exactly where he has been portrayed, he is on the same level as Katakuri/King. You can argue he can beat them, but it is a closely contested match. 

Yonko/Admirals >> Marco > King - Katakuri

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Useful 1


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## Jo Ndule (Feb 28, 2021)

Furinji Saiga said:


> You would think the war made it clear and who Marco is being matched against right now and paralleled with would make it obvious.
> 
> But nope. Some wanker has to come in and act like the Blue Turkey is on par with a top tier...
> 
> ...


Katakuri >base Katakuri >~ King >= Marco


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> You said Marco confronted admiral as equal don;t backtrack and admiral Marco confronted was Kizaru who looked equal to Rakuyo. So yes Marco confronted non serious kizaru as equal I agree.


the translation means that marco fought admirals and that he is their equal

he confronts/faces admiral as equal means that.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> the translation means that marco fought admirals and that he is their equal
> 
> he confronts/faces admiral as equal means that.


Databook says Marco confronted admiral in MF as equal and it's clear admiral in MF was not serious. SO Databook says Marco confronted admiral in MF who was not serious admiral and looked equal.

The translation is Marco fought non serious kizaru and looked equal yes.

He confronted/faced non serious admiral as equal yes.

Why non serious Kizaru? Because even Rakuyo looked equal to Kizaru.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Databook says Marco confronted admiral in MF as equal and it's clear admiral in MF was not serious. SO Databook says Marco confronted admiral in MF who was not serious admiral and looked equal.
> 
> The translation is Marco fought non serious kizaru and looked equal yes.
> 
> ...


Marco confronted the Admirals as an equal is what it says


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Marco confronted the Admirals as an equal is what it says


Yes confronted admiral in MF who was trolling like Kizaru. So Marco confronted non serious admiral Kizaru as an equal.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Yes confronted admiral in MF who was trolling like Kizaru. So Marco confronted non serious admiral Kizaru as an equal.


The earth is flat.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> The earth is flat.


Which admiral did databook say? MF admiral right? And MF admiral wasn't serious. So Marco confronted non serious admiral as an equal.


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## Seraphoenix (Feb 28, 2021)

Marco is admiral level per deep databook Blue. A lot of trolling in this thread, ignoring canon.

You might not like it but admiral level is not Yonko level.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Which admiral did databook say? MF admiral right? And MF admiral wasn't serious. So Marco confronted non serious admiral as an equal.


imagine being so invested in drawings


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> imagine being so invested in drawings


Imagine being so biased and think Ronse>Mihawk. Imagine being so low standard that the best feat Marco has is clashing with non serious admiral something Dressrosa Luffy could do. What a low standard.  

You still haven't answered my question which admiral Marco confronted.  Admiral Marco only confronted was MF admiral who wasn't serious. So databook says Marco confronted non serious admiral.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> You still hasn't answered my question which admiral Marco confronted.  Admiral Marco only confronted was MF admiral who wasn't serious. So databook says Marco confronted non serious admiral.


caring this much about winning a debate about drawings 

the mind boggles

The databook says he faced the Admirals plural and that he is their equal.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> caring this much about winning a debate about drawings
> 
> the mind boggles
> 
> The databook says Admirals plural and that he is their equal.


 I'm not as biased as you who only use feat against non serious admiral to hype certain characters. if I were as biased as you I would say Luffy is admiral level due to his feat against Fujitora which makes Cracker and Katakuri above admiral. 

This is what you said 


Shunsuiju said:


> "marco confronts admiral as equal" is not retelling its stating a fact.


You said admiral. Singular.   

So which admiral Marco confronted? Because Marco only confronted MF admiral who wasn;t serious therefore Marco confronted non serious admiral as an equal.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> You said admiral. Singular.


"Lors de la guerre au sommet, il a affronté d'égal à égal les amiraux de la Marine et soutenu Luffy. Son rôle a élé prépondérant dans la bataille"

In Marineford, he faced the Admirals (group) as their equal in support of Luffy


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> "Lors de la guerre au sommet, il a affronté d'égal à égal les amiraux de la Marine et soutenu Luffy. Son rôle a élé prépondérant dans la bataille"
> 
> In Marineford, he faced the Admirals (group) as their equal in support of Luffy


So MF admiral? Meaning non serious Kizaru? Non serious Aokiji? And also injured Akainu with WBP commanders help.

So nothing indicates Marco conftonted serious admiral as equal.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> So MF admiral? Meaning non serious Kizaru? Non serious Aokiji? And also injured Akainu with WBP commanders help.


Marco faced Akainu when he was bloodlusted and not injured.

Stop laughing, this is serious.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Marco faced Akainu when he was bloodlusted and not injured.
> 
> Stop laughing, this is serious.


Akainu was injured from WB sneak attack. Marco got others help. Admiral level my ass.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Akainu was injured from WB sneak attack. Marco got others help. Admiral level my ass.


Marco faced Akainu before WB sneak attack.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Marco faced Akainu before WB sneak attack.


Only for a moment so I guess Luffy is admiral level since Luffy faced Fujitora for a moment capiche?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Only for a moment so I guess Luffy is admiral level since Luffy faced Fujitora for a moment capiche?


Then Marco faced *serious* Admiral Akainu as his equal

?


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Then Marco faced *serious* Admiral Akainu as his equal
> 
> ?


So Luffy faced serious Fujitora as an equal too? And Marco got Vista help


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## Seraphoenix (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Marco faced Akainu when he was bloodlusted and not injured.
> 
> Stop laughing, this is serious.


He knows what it means. He is just too dishonest to admit he is wrong. He wrote way too much and is too invested to back down now.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> So Luffy faced serious Fujitora as an equal too?


"Lors de la guerre au sommet, il a affronté d'égal à égal les amiraux de la Marine et soutenu Luffy. Son rôle a élé prépondérant dans la bataille"

You said Akainu was serious

So the databook says Marco faced Akainu when he was serious as equal


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> He knows what it means. He is just too dishonest to admit he is wrong. He wrote way too much and is too invested to back down now.


I know he does


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> "Lors de la guerre au sommet, il a affronté d'égal à égal les amiraux de la Marine et soutenu Luffy. Son rôle a élé prépondérant dans la bataille"
> 
> You said Akainu was serious
> 
> So the databook says Marco faced Akainu when he was serious as equal


Marco got Vista help.   If you agree Marco is admiral level because he faced serious Akainu then you have to agree Luffy is admiral level too forclashing with serious Fujitora while bandaged without Gear Fourth capiche?



Shunsuiju said:


> I know he does


Nope you're just being dishonest. marco got Vista help. You also refuse to answer if Luffy is admiral or Fujitora level.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Marco got Vista help.   If you agree Marco is admiral level because he faced serious Akainu then you have to agree Luffy is admiral level too forclashing with serious Fujitora while bandaged without Gear Fourth capiche?


Marco faced Akainu without Vista's help

Akainu was serious

Marco faced Akainu as an equal


Dragon D Xebec said:


> Databook says this.
> 
> 
> Marco est I'un des plus anciens mais oussi I'un des plus puissants membres de I'equipage de barbe blanche
> ...


Whitebeard is stronger than Marco and is one of the Whitebeard pirates.  

>why should i trust the databook

keep coping


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Marco faced Akainu without Vista's help
> 
> Akainu was serious
> 
> Marco faced Akainu as an equal


Nope Marco is Akainu equal if he faced Akainu alone from the start until end of MF. But he got help from others WBP commaders so that already debunk Marco is Akainu level.

You still haven't answered if Luffy is admiral level why dodging this question? 


Shunsuiju said:


> Whitebeard is stronger than Marco and is one of the Whitebeard pirates.
> 
> >why should i trust the databook
> 
> keep coping


One of the most powerful members. Marco is portrayed along with Jozu and Vista.   WB was captain and Marco was membr of WBP. Why didn't databook says Marco is the second strongest after the captain?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Nope Marco is Akainu equal if he faced Akainu alone from the start until end of MF. But he got help from others WBP commaders so that already debunk Marco is Akainu level.


??

Did he ever face Akainu?
Did the databook say the Admirals he faced were equal to him?


Dragon D Xebec said:


> One of the most powerful members.


Yes. Whitebeard is a more powerful member of the Whitebeard pirates than Marco.


Dragon D Xebec said:


> Why didn't databook says Marco is the second strongest after the captain?


Because it didnt.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> ??
> 
> Did he ever face Akainu?
> Did the databook say the Admirals he faced were equal to him?


Databook says Marco confronted MF admiral which means he confronted admiral Akainu for a momnent as equal then needed others WBP help. He personally faced Akainu only for a moment not until the end of MF. Luffy faced Fujitora for a moment but he's not admiral level. 


Shunsuiju said:


> Yes. Whitebeard is a more powerful member of the Whitebeard pirates than Marco.


Marco is one of the most powerful member showing he's grouped with Jozu and Vista. Nothing special.


Shunsuiju said:


> Because it didnt.


So databook doesn;t consider Marco the strongest after the captain? So false databook then.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> He personally faced Akainu only for a moment not until the end of MF. Luffy faced Fujitora for a moment but he's not admiral level.


So the databook says that Marco is equal to Akainu?


Dragon D Xebec said:


> Marco is one of the most powerful member showing he's grouped with Jozu and Vista. Nothing special.
> So databook doesn;t consider Marco the strongest after the captain? So false databook then.


"False databook"


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> So the databook says that Marco is equal to Akainu?


Nope. Marco didn;t fight Akainu alone until end of MF. he needed other WBP help.  Also Luffy faced Fujitora for a moment but that doesn't put Luffy admiral level.


Shunsuiju said:


> "False databook"


Databook grouped Marco with Jozu and Vista. Why is is so trustworthy? Are you saying Marco is as strong as Jozu and Vista?


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Nope because Luffy faced Fujitora for a moment but that doesn't put Luffy admiral level.


Did the databook say that Marco faced the Admirals as an equal?


Dragon D Xebec said:


> Databook grouped Marco with Jozu and Vista. Why is is so trustworthy? *Are you saying Marco is as strong as Jozu and Vista? *


No.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Did the databook say that Marco faced the Admirals as an equal?


If he fought admiral like Luffy alone without help in the middle. 



Shunsuiju said:


> No.


So false databook then since databook groups Marco with VIsta and Jozu and you also agree Marco is stronger than both of them so grouping them doesn;t make sense.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Did the databook say that Marco faced the Admirals as an equal?


Databook says Marco faced MF admiral like Akainu alone for a moment like Luffy faced serious Fujitora alone for a momnt so no Marco is below admiral. It only apply if Marco fought Akaiu until the end of MF.  



Shunsuiju said:


> Blue Deep I believe.


Yep that databook is false. Taht's the same databook that says Vista swordmanship is superior to Mihawk. Marco equal to admiral in that databook is fucking false and blatant lie.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Databook deep blue:

marco confront admirals as equal


Also databook deep blue:

vista shows superior swordmanship to Mihawk


Don't trust this databook. Databook deep blue is false and not up to date.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> source?


This is pathetic. Why don't you show me the full content of the databook?
Here:


@Shunsuiju you are busted.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> This is pathetic. Why don't you show me the full content of the databook?
> Here:


can you translate it?


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> can you translate it?


lol you're pathetic. It has been translated there. You just refuse to admit your mistake. You are busted lol.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> lol you're pathetic. It has been translated there. You just refuse to admit your mistake. You are busted lol.


a lot can be mixed up in translation. if you're going to quote it and you cant even read the japanese yourself, then i dont care


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> a lot can be mixed up in translation. if you're going to quote it and you cant even read the japanese yourself, then i dont care


I'm not lying why should the user who post that source lied? lol you are so sad dude. This is desperate attempt.


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## gogcho (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Did the databook say that Marco faced the Admirals as an equal?
> 
> No.


You've been hanging on that databook quote like a drowning man for a straw this entire thread.

Any First Mate worth his salt should AT LEAST  be able to clash equally with an Admiral, especially if you're WB's right hand man.

What you're not understanding is that "to clash equally" doesn't mean "they are equals".

For how long can he be on an equal footing with an Admiral? A day ? 10 days ?

That's the information we don't have, but most people on this forum will unanimously agree that he cannot hang out with an Admiral for 10 days, therefore he is not their equal.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

busted


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

gogcho said:


> You've been hanging on that databook quote line a drowning man for this entire thread.
> 
> Any First Mate worth his salt should AT LEAST  be able to clash equally with an Admiral, especially if you're WB's right hand man.
> 
> ...


You unironically believe that it meant "Marco fought the Admirals to a stalemate" and not "Marco faced them as equals"

Let me guess you also believe that the databook was saying Vista was a superior swordsman to the "World's Strongest Swordsman" and not "Vista had swordsmanship that could be equal to Mihawk in a fight where neither won over each other"

I dont know if its an english problem or you're just this dumb. the other guy is trolling if you were not aware


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

The databook is wrong because I dropped out of highschool and cant understand it


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> You unironically believe that it meant "Marco fought the Admirals to a stalemate" and not "Marco faced them as equals"
> 
> Let me guess you also believe that the databook was saying Vista was a superior swordsman to the "World's Strongest Swordsman" and not "Vista had swordsmanship that could be equal to Mihawk in a fight where neither won over each other"
> 
> I dont know if its an english problem or you're just this dumb. the other guy is trolling if you were not aware


I am exposing you for using that old databook. That databook says Vista swordmanship is equal to Mihawk. Why should I trust Marco is admiral level from that databook too when that databook already has wrong information like VIsta swordmanship is superior to Mihawk?


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> I am exposing you for using that old databook. That databook says Vista swordmanship is equal to Mihawk. Why should I trust Marco is admiral level from that databook too when that databook already has wrong information like VIsta swordmanship is superior to Mihawk?


You think the people who wrote that thought Vista is superior to the strongest swordsman? Yes or no.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> You think the people who wrote that thought Vista is superior to the strongest swordsman? Yes or no.


No which means information about Marco equal to admiral is also false. That databook can't be trusted.


Shunsuiju said:


> The databook is wrong because I dropped out of highschool and cant understand it


Don't worry I'll ask Puck from [Blocked Domain] to translate it. You won;t have any excuse once he translate that information from that old databook. Better praying because you'll embarrass yourself later.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> No which means information about Marco equal to admiral is also false. That databook can't be trusted.
> 
> Don't worry I'll ask Puck from [Blocked Domain] to translate it. You won;t have any excuse once he translate that information from that old databook. Better praying because you'll embarrass yourself later.


[Blocked Domain]? Is that the the forum where all the forum rejects congregate?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Feb 28, 2021)

I just find it funny how people gotta use Marco’s abilities as an actual argument to downplay him.

“Oh he only pulled this off bc of his df ability, which countered this and that”.

“Oh he’s only tough to put down or they only said he’s strong bc of his abilities.”

Like context or portrayal doesn’t matter in the slightest, and we only deal with absolutes.

That’s like saying Teach only beat Ace because of his devil fruit, like wut?


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> [Blocked Domain]? Is that the the forum where all the forum rejects congregate?


 Keep your excuse for yourself please. He translated many chapters. I'll expose your pitiful ass later.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Keep your excuse for yourself please. He translated many chapters. I'll expose your pitiful ass later.


"Vista's swordmanship is strong enough to fight Mihawk." is one I got from a quick google search. I know that its trying to say that Vista could fight equally with Mihawk which he did by definition even if Mihawk wasnt completely serious in that fight, the meaning behind it is that Vista was strong enough to not get steamrolled by the WSS. The thing about being superior is probably a jumbled up translation because its so random.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> "Vista's swordmanship is strong enough to fight Mihawk." is one I got from a quick good search. I know that its trying to say that Vista could fight equally with Mihawk which he did even if Mihawk wasnt completely serious in that fight, the meaning behind it is that Vista was strong enough to not get steamrolled by the WSS. The thing about being superior is probably a jumbled up translation because its so random.


yeah just like Marco equal to admiral is a jumpled up translation because it's so random.

lol It says Vista swormasnhip is better than someone who should be at his peak at his swordmanship, Mihawk. That databook is old and can't be trusted.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> lol It says Vista swormasnhip is better than someone who should be at his peak at his swordmanship, Mihawk. That databook is old and can't be trusted.


ask your boyfriend on [Blocked Domain]


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> ask your boyfriend on [Blocked Domain]


are you so butthurt? Databook says Vista shows superior swordmanship. DO you see which panel in the manga thet shows Vista shows superior swordmanship to Mihawk? Nothing. nowhere in the manga shows that and it contradicts Mihawk WSS title so that databook contradicts Mihawk WSS title+what happens in the panel about VIsta vs Mihawk fight.

Therefore can't be trusted. Keep crying


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## gogcho (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> You unironically believe that it meant "Marco fought the Admirals to a stalemate" and not "Marco faced them as equals"
> 
> Let me guess you also believe that the databook was saying Vista was a superior swordsman to the "World's Strongest Swordsman" and not "Vista had swordsmanship that could be equal to Mihawk in a fight where neither won over each other"
> 
> I dont know if its an english problem or you're just this dumb. the other guy is trolling if you were not aware





> You unironically believe that it meant "Marco fought the Admirals to a stalemate" and not "Marco faced them as equals"


I don't know if you've read my comment but here, I'll repeat it for you: every first mate worth his salt should be able to face an Admiral equally. What we don't know is for how long he can fight them equally.



> Let me guess you also believe that the databook was saying Vista was a superior swordsman to the "World's Strongest Swordsman" and not "Vista had swordsmanship that could be equal to Mihawk in a fight where neither won over each other"


I don't read the data books, and I base my knowledge on the manga, not them, unlike you who's been repeating that Databook quote like a broken record this entire thread.



> I dont know if its an english problem or you're just this dumb. the other guy is trolling if you were not aware



Here sir, take your bad reputation again. You've insulted me for a second time now, there won't be a third.

You know who insults first in an argument, right? That's a pretty bad portrayal for you.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

gogcho said:


> I don't know if you've read my comment but here, I'll repeat it for you: every first mate worth his salt should be able to face an Admiral equally. What we don't know is for how long he can fight them equally.
> 
> 
> I don't read the data books, and I base my knowledge on the manga, not them, unlike you who's been repeating that Databook quote like a broken record this entire thread.
> ...


If you think the databook is garbage well clearly i dont so what are you getting out of starting a conversation with me?


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> If you think the databook is garbage well clearly i dont so what are you getting out of starting a conversation with me?


It's not garbage. It's just not accurate because Vista shows superior swordmanship to Mihawk contradicts Mihawk WSS title and what happens in the manga since Vista has never shown superiority in swordmanship to Mihawk during their fight. Therefore that databook can't be trusted and used for power scaling and once again Marco=admiral level is going downhill.


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## Sloan (Feb 28, 2021)

This debate is classic/legendary.  A decade and more and still outstanding.  Remember being 15 years old having this debate.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## gogcho (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> If you think the databook is garbage well clearly i dont so what are you getting out of starting a conversation with me?


Stop saying what I think ... 'you also believe', 'if you think'.. etc stop it.

I told you what I think.

Now let me ask you what you think.

For how long can Marco fight equally with Akainu in your opinion? A few hours? A day? 5 days? 10 days?
Same as above but with Kizaru.
Same as above but with Aokiji.


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## OG sama (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> This is pathetic. Why don't you show me the full content of the databook?
> Here:


Sounds like what I have been saying all along...

The deep blue data book is simply just retelling   the events that transpired during the MF war, they aren’t saying anything grounded in facts but rather just interpreting whatever happened during the war and taking the feats at face value.

I wouldn’t trust this.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Sloan said:


> This debate is classic/legendary.  A decade and more and still outstanding.  Remember being 15 years old having this debate.


What, Vista vs Mihawk?


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

gogcho said:


> For how long can Marco fight equally with Akainu in your opinion? A few hours? A day? 5 days? 10 days?


Depends how Oda wants to do it. If Marco has the best endurance due to his fruit out there and also has nearly Aokiji stats then i dont see why he wouldnt last days with Akinu.


gogcho said:


> Same as above but with Kizaru.


Imo hes equal to Kizaru, same with Beckman. it goes either way.

Kizaru has no large plot relevance like Akainu or Aokiji where I could see Marco and Beckman beating him for sure.


gogcho said:


> Same as above but with Aokiji.


Aokiji beats him but with more difficulty than Akainu, whatever that means.


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## Sloan (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> What, Vista vs Mihawk?


Marco being Admiral level or not.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Depends how Oda wants to do it. If Marco has the best endurance due to his fruit out there and also has nearly Aokiji stats then i dont see why he wouldnt last days with Akinu.
> 
> Imo hes equal to Kizaru, same with Beckman. it goes either way.
> 
> ...


But but but but Luffy must be admiral level as well isn't it? Since he fought Fujitora on par and bruised him without using Gear Fourth


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Marco being Admiral level or not.


The consensus was Marco = Admiral level ( which means close to Admirals, dont have a fit ) around marineford except for trolls and ever since then the poster quality has taken a skydive/


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> The consensus was Marco = Admiral level ( which means close to Admirals, dont have a fit ) around marineford except for trolls and ever since then the poster quality has taken a skydive/


the same databook says Vista swordmanship is superior to Mihawk so false databook you are using.


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## Sloan (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> The consensus was Marco = Admiral level ( which means close to Admirals, dont have a fit ) around marineford except for trolls and ever since then the poster quality has taken a skydive/


Not from my experience.  This has always been a controversial discussion.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Not from my experience.  This has always been a controversial discussion.


Post discussions?


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## Sloan (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Post discussions?


Hmm?


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## OG sama (Feb 28, 2021)

I could have sworn one of those data books said that Vista was Mihawks equal or something like that...

It totally sounds like the creators are taking the feats at face value and just simply retelling the events.

Yeah on the surface it totally looked like Vista was even with Mihawk, just like it totally looked like Jozu was an equal to Aokiji as well til his guard was down.

^If you take MF feats for what they were at the eye test level then you would have Marco, Jozu, and Vista all being Top Tiers.

But how many people on this forum in 2021 believe that all 3 of those guys are Top Tier??? 

I doubt it’s that many.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Hmm?


threads from back then


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## Sloan (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> threads from back then


LoL too much work.  Were you on Forums in 2010-2012?  Was pretty standard to have this debate.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

OG sama said:


> I could have sworn one of those data books said that Vista was Mihawks equal or something like that...
> 
> It totally sounds like the creators are taking the feats at face value and just simply retelling the events.
> 
> ...


If you're genuinely curious I think it meant that Vista was fighting equally with Mihawk, which by definition is what happened even if we recognize that Mihawk was not fully serious in that 'equal fight'. I just need the kanji to check for sure.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Sloan said:


> LoL too much work.  Were you on Forums in 2010-2012?  Was pretty standard to have this debate.


i will check

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> If you're genuinely curious I think it meant that Vista was fighting equally with Mihawk, which by definition is what happened even if we recognize that Mihawk was not fully serious in that 'equal fight'. I just need the kanji to check for sure.


Databook says VIsta SHOWS SUPERIOR SWORDMANSHIP. No matter how you spin it it shows during their fight VIsta looked superior which contradicts Mihawk WSS title and what actually happened during their fight in the manga.


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## Sloan (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> i will check


How are you disagreing with the general consensus from 10+ years ago if you only started posting a year ago, unless you posted somewhere else before


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## gogcho (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Depends how Oda wants to do it. If Marco has the best endurance due to his fruit out there and also has nearly Aokiji stats then i dont see why he wouldnt last days with Akinu.
> 
> Imo hes equal to Kizaru, same with Beckman. it goes either way.
> 
> ...


So you think he can last a few days with Akainu.
You think he can last 10 days with Kizaru (or as long as the fight lasts) and maybe beat him in the end.
You think Aokiji beats him but with a day or two more than Akainu.

Alright, I see where you stand. So your argument is Marco = Kizaru or Marco > Kizaru, and not Marco = all the admirals.
I don't agree with that but fair enough.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## OG sama (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> If you're genuinely curious I think it meant that Vista was fighting equally with Mihawk, which by definition is what happened even if we recognize that Mihawk was not fully serious in that 'equal fight'. I just need the kanji to check for sure.


So you can infer that from the data book but you can’t come to this same conclusion for Marco vs Kizaru??

Was Kizaru going all out against Marco? Was Vista going all out against Mihawk and vice versa??

Soemthing isn’t adding up with what you are saying man, I got to admit this logic of yours is sounding pretty selective.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Sloan said:


> How are you disagreing with the general consensus from 10+ years ago if you only started posting a year ago, unless you posted somewhere else before


Im not sure i understan your question


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## Sloan (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Im not sure i understan your question


How do you know what the general consensus was 10+ years ago if you weren’t posting on Forums back than, unless you were?  Just looking at your join date seux wondering.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Sloan said:


> How do you know what the general consensus was 10+ years ago if you weren’t posting on Forums back than, unless you were?  Just looking at your join date seux wondering.


Old threads. Inference.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Sloan said:


> How do you know what the general consensus was 10+ years ago if you weren’t posting on Forums back than, unless you were?  Just looking at your join date seux wondering.


Two second search, and here we go, an identically named thread from 9 years ago:


Marco used to be a lot more respected


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Two second search, and here we go, an identically named thread from 9 years ago:
> 
> 
> Marco used to be a lot more respected


And Dressrosa Luffy was disrespected even though he showed better feat than Marco against admiral


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> And Dressrosa Luffy was disrespected even though he showed better feat than Marco against admiral


Genuine question: is this gow you talk to people in real life? I didnt ask for your 2334th input.


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## Sloan (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Two second search, and here we go, an identically named thread from 9 years ago:
> 
> 
> Marco used to be a lot more respected


Did you even read the thread... it’s clearly divided in opinions just like this thread is with the same title/name.  It was 50/50 like it always was so of course the person part of the half that believe he is in fact Admiral level made that thread.

I personally have at least a couple thousand posts on this topic alone from those days.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Genuine question: is this gow you talk to people in real life? I didnt ask for your 2334th input.


You are just biased as fuck and saying Marco=admiral when Luffy showed better feat. You are exposing lie about Marco=admiral by using small clash of marco vs admirals but not doing it for Luffy who did the same therefore I am here to stop you from spreading false information.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Did you even read the thread... it’s clearly divided in opinions just like this thread is with the same title/name.  It was 50/50 like it always was so of course the person part of the half that believe he is in fact Admiral level made that thread.
> 
> I personally have at least a couple thousand posts on this topic alone from those days.


I looked at the first two pages and a majority of the posters were saying marco was/close to as strong as the admirals. Now most would say Marco gets stomped by an admiral


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> I looked at the first two pages and a majority of the posters were saying marco was/close to as strong as the admirals. Now most would say Marco gets stomped by an admiral


Because Luffy also clashed with admiral Fujitora but he got stomped by Cracker. it's not hard logic. Clashing for a bit =/= equal power level

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

@Sloan

It defintely changed and thats with the introduction of the new yonko commanders and imo poster quality drop off. Put it this way Not many people except full stop trolls are saying marco would get stonped by an admiral back then, now thats normal.


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## Sloan (Feb 28, 2021)

N


Shunsuiju said:


> @Sloan
> 
> It defintely changed and thats with the introduction of the new yonko commanders and imo poster quality drop off. Put it this way Not many people except full stop trolls are saying marco would get stonped by an admiral back then, now thats normal.


Naw

I personally posted in that era.  I had people tell me Ace and Magellan could beat Marco let alone Kizaru or an Admiral stomping him.  Thread you linked was just one thread and still had 12 pages of discussion on the matter.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> It defintely changed and thats with the introduction of the new yonko commanders and imo poster quality drop off. Put it this way Not many people except full stop trolls are saying marco would get stonped by an admiral back then, now thats normal.


BMP YC are just strong compared to other YC. Instead of hyping BMP who beat the fuck out of Luffy who clashed with admirals, you downplay them and putting them below WBP YC when WBP YC best feat is clashing with admirals something Dressrosa Luffy could do. You even said admiral would low diff Katakuri when Katakuri would give Dressrosa version of Fujitora a run for his money


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Sloan said:


> N
> 
> Naw
> 
> I personally posted in that era.  I had people tell me Ace and Magellan could beat Marco let alone Kizaru or an Admiral stomping him.  Thread you linked was just one thread and still had 12 pages of discussion on the matter.


I see your perspective.

personally, the influx of new fans over the decade really put a a full stop to any good discussion of this series


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## Corax (Feb 28, 2021)

Just to end this thread direct comparison of Marco and Kizaru through stats:
1)Movement speed. Kizaru without any doubts. Yata has the speed of light. Multiple blitz feats in Sabaody and MF. Great DB hype.
2) Combat speed. Again Kizaru. Matched one of the greatest CoO masters Ray in a sword fight, sniped a key in the middle of the fight vs WB.
3) Strength. Possibly Marco since he overpowered Kizaru and matched BM.
4) Lethality. Kizaru by a gigantic margin.  Leg kick one shot zoan user Drake. One laser was enough to KO Zoro. Riddled Marco with holes and made him bleed. Marco has zero lethality feats.
5) Attack potency. Kizaru by a gigantic margin. Yasaka destroyed entire bay worth of thick ice. Single nameless leg laser destroyed a huge mangrove tree at Sabaody.
6) Durability. Kizaru is a logia with good CoA ( CoA 2.0 by feats). Marco's CoA isn't special at all. Again Kizaru.
7) Endurance. Not enough feats to tell. Marco has regen, but it is limited by stamina. Kizaru hasn't been seriously hurt on panel at all.
8) Stamina. Admirals can fight for 10 days. Marco's greatest feat is a 3 day loot match fight. Again Kizaru.
9) DF mastery. Likely equal since they has had their DF for a very long time. Both should have awakening/hybrid.
So it is 7 to 1 in Kizaru's favor.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

This is the translation for Vista

ミホークと互角以上の剣戟を演じるビスタ！！ この勝負で、互いの剣が相手に届く事は無かった。

I don't know Japanese but I think it is hyping up Vista's fight with Mihawk more than anything; "Vista and Mihawk's sword skills were equal and they never could beat each other".

I am going out on a limb that they didnt intend to mean Vista was literally > Mihawk, i knew it was random and this translation in full confirms that for me, it was just stating that Mihawk and Vista were sparring on level terms to give Vista credit.

@OG sama You say this is the same as the Marco quote about him fighting evenly with Admirals, but that quote is actually talking about Marco's position within the world, in order: He is respected by Shanks, he fought the Admirals as an equal/peer, and influence was paramount in the Marineford. It's not the same also because in the Marco case its not referencing any fight he had like in Vista vs Mihawk's case, it was talking about his standing in the world and reputation.

Understanding what this databook is actually saying and representing it properly will give a better understanding of the manga.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 28, 2021)

Corax said:


> Just to end this thread direct comparison of Marco and Kizaru through stats:
> 1)Movement speed. Kizaru without any doubts. Yata has the speed of light. Multiple blitz feats in Sabaody and MF. Great DB hype.
> 2) Combat speed. Again Kizaru. Matched one of the greatest CoO masters Ray in a sword fight, sniped a key in the middle of the fight vs WB.
> *3) Strength. Possibly Marco since he overpowered Kizaru and matched BM.*
> ...


Thats all i really need though to see that Marco would thrash the ever living shit out of someone like Katakuri and enough to put him at least close to Admirals if he can match them in power. All of his other stats will match his strength because thats how it works in this series. There arent too many 'only fast' or 'only strong' characters especially so high up the ladde.r


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## Dragon D Xebec (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> This is the translation for Vista
> 
> ミホークと互角以上の剣戟を演じるビスタ！！ この勝負で、互いの剣が相手に届く事は無かった。
> 
> ...


That already contradict manga though. They could never beat each other really contradict what the manga has shown. That statements imply Mihawk could never beat Vista. And this is wrong because Mihawk could beat Vista whenever he wanted.

Fake databook. Marco equal to admiral is fake as well and can't be trusted.


Shunsuiju said:


> Thats all i really need though to see that Marco would thrash the ever living shit out of someone like Katakuri and enough to put him at least close to Admirals if he can match them in power. All of his other stats will match his strength because thats how it works in this series. There arent too many 'only fast' or 'only strong' characters especially so high up the ladde.r


Pre TS Luffy sent Aokiji flying. Page One sent Sanji flying but he was the one groaned in pain. Dressrosa Luffy pushed back Fujitora with Gear Second while katakuri lol diff Elephant Gun.

What strength feat from Marco? Clash against Big Mom, she used Heavenly Fire which did zero physical damage to Reiju therefore not srength feat. Luffy bruised Fujitora while MArco cannot bruise Kizaru.

Katakuri would beat the fuck of Dressrosa Fujitora. marco won't do shit to Fujitora with his weak ass ap. Keep crying though.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Corax (Feb 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Thats all i really need though to see that Marco would thrash the ever living shit out of someone like Katakuri and enough to put him at least close to Admirals if he can match them in power. All of his other stats will match his strength because thats how it works in this series. There arent too many 'only fast' or 'only strong' characters especially so high up the ladde.r


Strength is only one of 9 stats.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 28, 2021)

Lol no.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Gitagon (Feb 28, 2021)

There aren't as huge strength gaps in the series as people think. That's why some people get personally offended even hearing Marco could be Admiral level cause in their heads, Admiral somwhow>>>>>>>> YCs while in reality its more like Admiral > YC and a YC can have Admiral level stats in some aspects like skill, attack power or even speed but lack in others hence making their power unbalanced in a true fight: Cracker, Katakuri and even Enel from back in the day are all perfect examples of this. Top tier defence, top tier Observation hence reaction speed & to tier observation + OP devil fruit for AP. But their stats aren't balanced around the clock hence they lose out to true top tiers who have most of their stats maxed out.

If Luffy was skilled enough, he could have simply dodged Kaido's Thunder Bagua to the head. Kaido oneshotting him is still impressive but it was a straight blow to the head and with a weapon at that. 99.999% of One Piece cast would be knocked out by that blow, even if they were just as strong as Kaido just like how knockouts work in real life. The difference between them and Luffy is that they wouldn't be hit in the first place but dodge or parry the attack.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (Feb 28, 2021)

We actually had a "Is Marco Admiral Level?" debate thread many years ago.

I might be wrong cus my memory is a bit foggy, but I think we won the debate as the Pro-Marco side. Although, that was many years ago, and now people are eager to use any new "feats" or clashes as an example to discredit Marco's portrayal in the War as nothing special. 

It's funny though, since these people like to ignore context all the time, and love to equalize feats when the portrayal is obviously nowhere near the same.


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## Beast (Feb 28, 2021)

Lol, lost souls.

Marco is the second strongest none top tier... he isn’t admiral level though, same way he isn’t yonko level either.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Feb 28, 2021)

Marco isn't admiral level, the admiral are yonkou level


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## Jo Ndule (Feb 28, 2021)

Beast said:


> Lol, lost souls.
> 
> Marco is the second strongest none top tier... he isn’t admiral level though, same way he isn’t yonko level either.


He's not the second strongest
He's not even guaranteed a place among top 10 pirates excluding Luffy and kidd :
Yonko
Benn
Posthawk 
Kata
Weevil
Shiryu

Doffy/King/Marco/Cracker/Smoothie fight for the last  spot... which i give Doffy coz he has CoC and Awakening for now

Reactions: Optimistic 2 | Dislike 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Mar 1, 2021)

Jo Ndule said:


> He's not the second strongest
> He's not even guaranteed a place among top 10 pirates excluding Luffy and kidd :
> Yonko
> Benn
> ...


Marco is stronger than Kata what are you smoking


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## Lee-Sensei (Mar 1, 2021)

Nah. I think Marco is close to Yonko leven, but still a little bit weaker. And if he’s not even at the level of weaklings like Kaido or Shanks, I can’t put him on the level of the monsters like Akainu and Kizaru.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Mar 1, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


>


So Katakuri would give the same difficulty as Luffy if he fought Dressrosa version of Fujitora? I don't know Katakuri attack power is as strong as Gear Second that pushed back Fujitora.

I must have read different manga

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jo Ndule (Mar 2, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Marco is stronger than Kata what are you smoking


Yes
Perospero can rival Katakuri... think twice before typing


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## Beast (Mar 2, 2021)

Jo Ndule said:


> He's not the second strongest
> He's not even guaranteed a place among top 10 pirates excluding Luffy and kidd :
> Yonko
> Benn
> ...


He is lol. 
ben is above him and everyone above Ben to me is a top tier if not Ben himself, which makes Marco number one.
Didn’t include the SNs who are up and coming as their power will grow chapter to chapter arc to arc.


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## Turrin (Mar 2, 2021)

Marco is Admiral level in the sense that I’m sure if he was a Marine he would qualify for the title. I’m not sure which Admirals he would win or loose against as the Admirals overall strength level especially Post TS is being kept vague by Oda right now

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (Mar 2, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> So Katakuri would give the same difficulty as Luffy if he fought Dressrosa version of Fujitora? I don't know Katakuri attack power is as strong as Gear Second that pushed back Fujitora.
> 
> I must have read different manga



You literally just said Katakuri would beat the shit out of Fujitora, my guy lol.

I wanna know what kind of manga you're reading, or what's the good stuff you smoking while reading it, because i want it too


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## Dragon D Xebec (Mar 2, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> You literally just said Katakuri would beat the shit out of Fujitora, my guy lol.
> 
> I wanna know what kind of manga you're reading, or what's the good stuff you smoking while reading it, because i want it too


Answer my question then. Are you saying Katakuri would give the same difficulty to non serious Fujitora? 

I agree Fujitora>Katakuri but saying admiral can low diff Katakuri is the most idiotic argument ever when the gap between Katakuri and Dressrosa Luffy without FS and Gear FOurth who clashed with Fujitora was massive. Fujitora has to exert was more of his power if he want to defeat Katakuri which is far from low diff.


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## Mihawk (Mar 2, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Answer my question then. Are you saying Katakuri would give the same difficulty to non serious Fujitora?
> 
> I agree Fujitora>Katakuri but saying admiral can low diff Katakuri is the most idiotic argument ever when the gap between Katakuri and Dressrosa Luffy without FS and Gear FOurth who clashed with Fujitora was massive. Fujitora has to exert was more of his power if he want to defeat Katakuri which is far from low diff.



Huh? Bro I am zoning out trying to keep up with your questions and arguments. Since when did I say Katakuri was getting low-diffed by an Admiral??

I was just laughing bc you said Katakuri would beat the shit out of Fujitora lol.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Mar 2, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> Huh? Bro I am zoning out trying to keep up with your questions and arguments. Since when did I say Katakuri was getting low-diffed by an Admiral??
> 
> I was just laughing bc you said Katakuri would beat the shit out of Fujitora lol.


I quoted user who said Marco who only has one stat advantage against an admiral can beat Katakuri. I replied Katakuri would beat the fuck out of Dressrosa version of Fujitora while Marco won't do shit with his ap.

I'm not saying all out Katakuri>all out Fujitora. Just All out Katakuri>non serious Dressrosa version of Fujitora. That's all. All Out Fujitora>All Out Katakuri imo.


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## Mihawk (Mar 2, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> I quoted user who said Marco who only has one stat advantage against an admiral can beat Katakuri. I replied Katakuri would beat the fuck out of Dressrosa version of Fujitora while Marco won't do shit with his ap.
> 
> I'm not saying all out Katakuri>all out Fujitora. Just All out Katakuri>non serious Dressrosa version of Fujitora. That's all. All Out Fujitora>All Out Katakuri imo.



Where do you see Marco? And what has he done to you to make you despise him so much?


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## Dragon D Xebec (Mar 2, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> Where do you see Marco? And what has he done to you to make you despise him so much?


I replied to Shunsuiju if you forgot. He said Marco with one stat advantage would beat Katakuri. That means admiral low diffs Katakuri. Do you understand?

So I reminded him Katakuri would give Dressrosa vrsion of Fujitora a run of his money. WHich means admiral has to go all out to beat Katakuri.

I don't hate Marco. Just people who wank Jozu or Vista above Katakuri with agenda they can wank Marco even higher. Imo all YC one are equal in power level except Benn Beckman. But when there is someone who claims this YC one can beat the shit out of this YC one I tend to troll lol.

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## Draco Bolton (Mar 2, 2021)

Beast said:


> he isn’t admiral level though, same way he isn’t yonko level either.





GreenEggsAHam said:


> Marco isn't admiral level, the admiral are yonkou level





Jo Ndule said:


> He's not the second strongest
> He's not even guaranteed a place among top 10 pirates excluding Luffy and kidd :
> Yonko
> Benn
> ...

Reactions: Like 2 | GODA 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 4, 2021)

Jo_nudele will do anything to downplay marco, marco is yonko level, admirals are above yonko


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## Skaddix (Mar 5, 2021)

We saw he is not, he made one mistake and got one shot lol.


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 5, 2021)

Of course I am always right


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## Spirit King (Mar 5, 2021)

Skaddix said:


> We saw he is not, he made one mistake and got one shot lol.


That's pretty terrible argument. He got tagged because of seastone and seastone has been established to be pretty fucking rare that the marines almost exclusively use aside from anyone in control of Wano.


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 5, 2021)

Turrin said:


> Marco is Admiral level in the sense that I’m sure if he was a Marine he would qualify for the title. I’m not sure which Admirals he would win or loose against as the Admirals overall strength level especially Post TS is being kept vague by Oda right now


This. Only I think he will lose to any admirals and never has a chance to win but able to hold them off for atleast days.


Gitagon said:


> There aren't as huge strength gaps in the series as people think. That's why some people get personally offended even hearing Marco could be Admiral level cause in their heads, Admiral somwhow>>>>>>>> YCs while in reality its more like Admiral > YC and a YC can have Admiral level stats in some aspects like skill, attack power or even speed but lack in others hence making their power unbalanced in a true fight: Cracker, Katakuri and even Enel from back in the day are all perfect examples of this. Top tier defence, top tier Observation hence reaction speed & to tier observation + OP devil fruit for AP. But their stats aren't balanced around the clock hence they lose out to true top tiers who have most of their stats maxed out.


Also, this.

Admiral level is not that hard to find as we can see by the military draft.


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## Nikseng (Mar 5, 2021)

Yes Marco is admiral level.

Admirals aren't some exclusive, chosen by gods people. Whenever an admiral is out, he gets immediatly replaced by the Marines by another one; implying there are people out there comparable or straight up to that level.

The idea that Marco, a Yonko candidate and WB's right hand isn't on that level, is laughable at best.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 5, 2021)

Kylo Ren said:


> Admiral level is not that hard to find as we can see by the military draft.


Yonko level isn't even hard it took teach 2 weeks after marine-ford to be in consideration for the yonkous with other people since it was plural


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## Strobacaxi (Mar 5, 2021)

Jo Ndule said:


> He's not the second strongest
> He's not even guaranteed a place among top 10 pirates excluding Luffy and kidd :
> Yonko
> Benn
> ...


Yonko are top tier, they don't count
Mihawk is top tier doesn't count

So we have King, Marco, Beckman, Kata, (Luffy and Weevil) as the strongest non-top tier. Luffy and Weevil separated because I can easily see them as Top tiers, but also as not. If they aren't, they're the 2 strongest non top tiers, if they are they're probably the weakest top tiers.

IMO  Beckman >Marco > Kata >~ King

Considering BB are the anti SHs and the bad Redhaired pirates, I see Shyriu as stronger than Beckman.  
IMO, by the time Luffy is strong enough to beat BB solo, Zoro should be on a level where he either already defeated Mihawk (So Zoro is a top tier) or Shyriu will be the last stepping stone before Mihawk. So Shyriu is either the strongest non top tier, or a top tier himself.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OG sama (Mar 6, 2021)

He’s not Admiral level but some people might categorize that stuff differently.

To me, in order to be Admiral level you got to be strong enough to nearly beat someone like Kaido on your own, and that includes no help, you can still lose to him but you have to do significant damage and you have to make it close between you and him.

There is a big gap in strength between a Low Top Tier like Marco and an Admiral or Yonko. Luffy should be about where Marco is and better offensively and look how unscathed Kaido still is.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Mar 6, 2021)

OG sama said:


> He’s not Admiral level but some people might categorize that stuff differently.
> 
> To me, in order to be Admiral level you got to be strong enough to nearly beat someone like Kaido on your own, and that includes no help, you can still lose to him but you have to do significant damage and you have to make it close between you and him.
> 
> Marco so far isn’t doing even that much damage to King and Queen in their base forms with no hybrid, and K and Q are nothing compared to Kaido taking on the 9 Scababrds and winning and now taking on Luffy and 4 other SNs and still not even the slightest bit winded or harmed.


edit out spoilers

Reactions: Like 2


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## OG sama (Mar 6, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> edit out spoilers


Thanks bro you saved me from another court sentence.


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## ShadoLord (Mar 6, 2021)

The only thing that separates Marco from the C3 Admirals is firepower in my eyes. His other departments are up to par.


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## OG sama (Mar 6, 2021)

Zoro said:


> The only thing that separates Marco from the C3 Admirals is firepower in my eyes. His other departments are up to par.


That’s fair.

In reality even Luffy who I feel is better offensively than Marco is, is still lacking in that category compared to Kaido with even a barrage of his best attacks.

KKG is probably a Top Tier level attack but it’s just one for Luffy.

I can’t wait for Zoro and Luffy to ascend in this fight.


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