# God Emperor of Mankind vs Silver Surfer



## CerBorg (Jan 21, 2014)

Round 1: Near-dead GEoM

Round 2: Prime-GEoM

They start 1 light-year away. They know of the other's location at the start of the fight.


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## Captain Tenneal (Jan 21, 2014)

I think the Silver Surfer wins both scenarios solely because he is much much faster (On his board, he is apparently in the billions of light years) than the GEoM.


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## lokoxDZz (Jan 21, 2014)

I'm pretty sure this was made before and GEoM took this,his mindrape is too much for silver surfer i believe,but i don't really know it was what i remember from last thread


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## Captain Tenneal (Jan 22, 2014)

I would agree that GEoM can take it if the Silver Surfer isn't on his board.

But seeing how he is, i just don't see how he will react to a Silver Surfer blitz.







Admittedly though he did miss Thanos.

There are bunch more speed feats posted here (look for post 40 by Malevolent1 and 41 by CaptnMcDeadpool):


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## Red Angel (Jan 22, 2014)

Meh, the Emperor also has time stops and soulfuck, not sure if Surfer is immune to that or not (be far from surprised if he was)

Emprah has MFTL reactions going by his beating the Void Dragon (can travel interstellar distances in short order), though not sure how that stacks up to Surfer

EDIT: And he has precog for what that's worth /shrug


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## Captain Tenneal (Jan 22, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Meh, the Emperor also has time stops and soulfuck, not sure if Surfer is immune to that or not (be far from surprised if he was)
> 
> Emprah has MFTL reactions going by his beating the Void Dragon (can travel interstellar distances in short order), though not sure how that stacks up to Surfer



I honestly don't know that much about the Surfer only that he was considered really fast (Or is the fastest in marvel?), I think he has some control over time (or can move back and forward through it) but apart from that no idea.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 22, 2014)

> Emprah has MFTL reactions going by his beating the Void Dragon (*can travel interstellar distances in short order*)


can someone post this feat ?

and it was done with regular flight ? not via the Warp ?


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## Red Angel (Jan 22, 2014)

C'Tan's can't use the warp. It's supposedly their kryptonite (hence the purpose of the Necrons' Great Warding)

How else would they get around, considering they're star vampires and shit


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 22, 2014)

so how far did it fly and how long did it take ?


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## Red Angel (Jan 22, 2014)

Can't say with any certainty, have only heard about this

Though they do this on a regular basis since they eat stars and other such fun shit


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## Stermor (Jan 23, 2014)

the speed of c'tan is no where near what silver surfer has accomplished..  

as well as the fight between emp and him beeing iffy (they only moved between planets) wouldn't require all that much speed.. 

regardless that c'tan is likely capable of much greater speeds. but it wasn't shown against the emp.


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## Red Angel (Jan 23, 2014)

Why the fuck wouldn't the C'Tan be going fast against him? That makes no sense


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 30, 2014)

concerning scaling Emperor from a CTan 




NemeBro said:


> Because the Void Dragon the Emperor fought was starving at the time, and happened to be kicking his ass before he managed to score a hit on its one weak point.
> 
> Nothing in the Materium can match the full power of a C'tan. No, not even the Emperor.




recalled this bit ? true ?


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## willyvereb (Jan 30, 2014)

Most likely NemeBro was making shit up.
More or less the only facts we know about the fight between the Emperor and Void Dragon that it started on Earth and in the end he sealed the C'Tan on Mars.
The only other detail we're aware is the prison that keeps the Void Dragon sealed.

Basically NemeBro attempted a more elaborate version "I don't like it so the feat is invalid".


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## Captain Tenneal (Jan 30, 2014)

So the Surfer apparently has telepathy and telepathy resistance feats but I don't know how much they help him. 

This is him using telepathy:


And here he is overcoming Moondragon's (One of if not the strongest human telepath in Marvel + Mind Gem) mental control.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 30, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> Most likely NemeBro was making shit up.
> More or less the only facts we know about the fight between the Emperor and Void Dragon that it started on Earth and in the end he sealed the C'Tan on Mars.
> The only other detail we're aware is the prison that keeps the Void Dragon sealed.
> 
> Basically NemeBro attempted a more elaborate version "I don't like it so the feat is invalid".


Neme said this 






> Bahahahahaha.
> 
> No it is completely true.
> 
> ...


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## NemeBro (Jan 30, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> Most likely NemeBro was making shit up.
> More or less the only facts we know about the fight between the Emperor and Void Dragon that it started on Earth and in the end he sealed the C'Tan on Mars.
> The only other detail we're aware is the prison that keeps the Void Dragon sealed.
> 
> Basically NemeBro attempted a more elaborate version "I don't like it so the feat is invalid".



Afraid not.

I've already provided the quote for Fluttershy but here it is for all of you:

" 'They are the handmaidens of the King of Cyrene's daughter, Cleodolinda, and they are taking her to her death. Within that wound in
the earth dwells the Dragon, a fearsome creature *recently awoken after a great war with its kin, which seeks refuge on this world to
feed and regain its strength.*'
'The Dragon.'
'Yes, the Dragon,' agreed Semyon. 'It has slain all the knights of the city and demands the sacrifice of a beautiful maiden every day. It
feasts on their terror, *growing stronger with each feeding*, but all the young girls of Cyrene are dead. The king's daughter alone
remains, and now she goes to her death.'"
- Mechanicum, 'Origens Mechanicus', 3.03


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## willyvereb (Jan 30, 2014)

Not like it'd matter when only a fragmented essence of a C'Tan's power can destroy stars and such.
Being the strongest C'Tan and with his full body, the Void Dragon would be still far above that level.


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## NemeBro (Jan 30, 2014)

You're using future material which retcons the C'tan as some sort of evidence pertaining to a story featuring a probable C'tan that predates the fifth edition codex by like four years or more. 

If we try to force Mechanicum to fit with 40k's currently established fluff, then the Emperor fought a mere shard of the Void Dragon that was also starving and trying to replenish its power. Considering Transcendant C'tan, the mightiest of C'tan shards, have been destroyed on the battlefields of 40k (I think by some dreadnoughts in some cases, not sure, will try to look that story up), well, that just makes the Emperor's showing worse, lol.

So which C'tan shard destroyed a star?


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## Captain Tenneal (Jan 30, 2014)

NemeBro said:


> You're using future material which retcons the C'tan as some sort of evidence pertaining to a story featuring a probable C'tan that predates the fifth edition codex by like four years or more.
> 
> If we try to force Mechanicum to fit with 40k's currently established fluff, then the Emperor fought a mere shard of the Void Dragon that was also starving and trying to replenish its power. Considering Transcendant C'tan, the mightiest of C'tan shards, have been destroyed on the battlefields of 40k (I think by some dreadnoughts in some cases, not sure, will try to look that story up), well, that just makes the Emperor's showing worse, lol.
> 
> So which C'tan shard destroyed a star?



I think he might be recalling incorrect information, the Celestial Orrery is said to be able to snuff out stars but i don't think its stated how it is powered, so he may have just filled that in with a C'tan shard. I had thought the same until I gave the Necron codex a gloss over just to make sure.


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## Galo de Lion (Jan 30, 2014)

God Emperor


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## willyvereb (Jan 30, 2014)

Nah, the new Necron codex does explicitly mention that each C'Tan fragment is strong enough to destroy a star.
Also I doubt the Outsider or the Void Dragon got destroyed and fragmented the same way the other C'Tans did.
I think the whole thing about him taking a sleep after eating 3+ Talismans of Valar is still what canonically occurred.
Otherwise we'd be seeing miniatures representing the essence of the Void Dragon, just like we do with the Nightbringer and the Deceiver.
Meaning that the one improvised on mars is none other than the full C'Tan entity.

Then again, you're right that I'm not following the new codex as much as I used to the old one.


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## Red Angel (Jan 30, 2014)

The Nightbringer (possibly as a shard?) was capable of casually of annihilating solar systems

For reference


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## NemeBro (Jan 30, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> Nah, the new Necron codex does explicitly mention that each C'Tan fragment is strong enough to destroy a star.



Where?



> Also I doubt the Outsider or the Void Dragon got destroyed and fragmented the same way the other C'Tans did.



White Dwarf confirmed that all the C'tan were made into shards.



> I think the whole thing about him taking a sleep after eating 3+ Talismans of Valar is still what canonically occurred.



Sadly not.



> Otherwise we'd be seeing miniatures representing the essence of the Void Dragon, just like we do with the Nightbringer and the Deceiver.



You'd think so, but we're talking about the same stupid company who still haven't given Ku'gath the Plaguefather or Skarbrand models. Same with the Tyranid Tyrannofex. 



> Meaning that the one improvised on mars is none other than the full C'Tan entity.
> 
> Then again, you're right that I'm not following the new codex as much as I used to the old one.



I'll try to find the White Dwarf issue (And the quote if I can) that talks about all the C'tan being shattered, but no promises. 



Skarbrand said:


> The Nightbringer (possibly as a shard?) was capable of casually of annihilating solar systems
> 
> For reference



In the 3rd edition codex, yes.

Nowhere is the Nightbringer's ship mentioned in the 5e codex, so it definitely wasn't a shard that achieved that feat. Though there are indeed still references to black holes consuming solar systems when the C'tan fought the Old Ones.


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## Captain Tenneal (Jan 31, 2014)

On the Void Dragon being a shard.

?So was each C'tan instead sundered into thousands of fragments.? Pg. 7, Silent King?s Betrayal, paragraph 2. 

?Whilst it is true that many C'tan shards are now indentured to Necron service, this by no means accounts for the entire Pantheon.? Pg. 40, C?tan Shards, paragraph 3.

So each C?tan was supposedly sundered into fragments, but they were unable to account for every single shard (so shards of a specific C?tan may be or are missing entirely from their collection). 

Then WD (385 I think) gives us his name (Mag'ladroth) and suggested powers for his shard. 

Then there is this:

_"It's all the Dragin remembers of it, yes' said Semyon. 'Or at least a version of it's memories. It's hard to tell what's real and what's not sometimes. / What is real and what is fantasy... well, who can tell?"_ (Mechanicum, pg.362)

I think that sounds suspiciously like the memory problems C?tan Shards are meant to suffer from.


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## Id (Jan 31, 2014)

If Surfer pulls of a blitz, do you honestly think the match is going to end there?  Not likely. 

As high as his speed is, he mostly uses it to bull-rush his opponent. You have never seen Surfer pull fluid movements in combat, or at least, not on his top end speed.

This is something that is brought up in the comic community. Outside of the Bull-Rush, he is no Superman, and certainly no Flash when it comes to combat speed.
Hulk catches him just fine.
Thor catches him just fine.

Therefore EoM will catch him just fine, and speed alone will not be a determining factor in this match.


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## Captain Tenneal (Jan 31, 2014)

Id said:


> If Surfer pulls of a blitz, do you honestly think the match is going to end there?  Not likely.
> 
> As high as his speed is, he mostly uses it to bull-rush his opponent. You have never seen Surfer pull fluid movements in combat, or at least, not on his top end speed.
> 
> ...




*I think I should say again that I don't know that much about the SS I'm only bring up his feats because he is under represented here.*

This is Nova The Human Rocket (+Nova Force) vs Silver Surfer these are presented in order.

(Nova 14)

Pg. 1


Pg. 2


Pg. 3


In Pg. 1 the Surfer hits Nova before the World Mind could even tell him, in Pg.2 Nova thinks his been hit by a laser beam from Galactus and the Worldmind helps him dodge in the the last panel, in Pg. 3 Surfer grabs him by the neck after he dodges.

I also posted a couple scans earlier were the Surfer crosses a distance greater than a light year in 2 seconds to try and grab the Infinity Gauntlet.

He is fast on his board, he is not fast off it which I brought up in one of my earlier posts.

From what I've learned about Silver Surfer over the past few days is that his meant to be a peaceful character who rarely makes use of all his powers, just like the martian manhunter. 

Can you post the Thor scans? I've seen most of the Hulk ones looking for info on the Surfer (Cause the OBD doesn't list sources *Angry fist shake*)  and of them only 10 or so have been legitimate (There was non canon to 616 e.g. Zombie Hulk eating his head, hallucinations, and some that were posted were out of context that had a page after that showed after he got hit he was fine).


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## NemeBro (Jan 31, 2014)

Surfer vaporizes the God Emperor with a single attack. He's been wounded by (admittedly powerful) Ork plasma weaponry enough that a strong Ork Warboss was able to physically contend with him. 

He's "only" a Primarch in physical stats.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 31, 2014)

the Ork plasma weapon only "opened his guard", though it did describe the Emperor's armor as being bucked when the leader seized him


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 31, 2014)

what is his best durability feat ?


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## willyvereb (Jan 31, 2014)

Physical? Dunno.
But he exchanged planetbusting and supernova level attacks with the Chaos-infused Horus.
So his shields are at least that good.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 31, 2014)

but they're not auto/passive shields ?

meaning he has to erect them ?

won't help against blitz


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## Captain Tenneal (Feb 2, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> Physical? Dunno.
> But he exchanged planetbusting and supernova level attacks with the Chaos-infused Horus.
> So his shields are at least that good.



Do you mean the fight that was printed in CV in 2007?

Have you read Know No Fear printed in 2012?

The one in which Ollanius Pius (Who goes on to be a Saint known for the action I?m about to describe) has a vision of himself standing on Horus?s ship between the Emperor and Horus as a weak golden light flashes behind him? After which he decide to make all haste to Terra. 

A man that isn't mentioned in that fight at all in CV (It was a Custode that tried to whack Horus and ended up being flayed by him, in a previous telling of the story it had been an Imperial Fist in Terminator Armor).

So I think that fight is now non-canon and has and will be effectively retconned.

Just like the many before it.

E.g.

One has the Emp get half his face burnt off, lose an eye, a limb or two, had broken ribs etc. 

Another has the act of destroying Horus?s soul leave him a charred husk, and he felled him with a sword and not a bolt of force with ?greater power than an exploding star? or attacks that could ?level planets?. 

The BA codex has the chink in Horus?s armor caused by Sanguinius be the reason why the Emperor is able to overcome him.

Etc.

Besides I always thought the description of that fight was hyperbole, seeing how their planet devastating bolts of force and energy couldn't shake the ship they were in or even cause damage to it. But the Lion vs Chaos Luther (I was hoping Luther was the good guy, but with the way the DA HH novels are being written it he probably fell) clashing together caused chunks the size of tanks to come off the tower they were in. This is the same tower I believe that goes on to survive the explosion of a planet and become the DA headquarters.

Chaos (All 4 I think) Luther and the Lion are much weaker than GEoM and Chaos Horus but in their battle they come off as being far stronger.


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## Red Angel (Feb 2, 2014)

Chaos Luther was merely enhanced, rather than possessed by all 4

Though technically, all those versions would be valid, it's merely a case of additional detail than anything

Although technically, GW say everything is canon

Collateral damage, or lack of it, does not degrade a feat. And considering you have the Emperor holding back Chaos from devouring the galaxy, fighting a C'Tan and creating a sector (or something) wide warp storm (because who the hell else could have done it?). You should lurk more before bringing up things that have been done to death several times


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## Zhen Chan (Feb 2, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> (because who the hell else could have done it)



Malal
Gork and More
Driago with 10 kilos of warp dust


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## Red Angel (Feb 2, 2014)

Gork and Mork likely don't exist since they were merely from old codexes with rumors of them beating Chaos Gods and shit


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## Captain Tenneal (Feb 2, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Chaos Luther was merely enhanced, rather than possessed by all 4
> 
> Though technically, all those versions would be valid, it's merely a case of additional detail than anything
> 
> ...



You mean the sector wide warp storm that is never directly attributed to him in any source?

You also seem to forget that Goge Vandire the guy whom that storm killed, also mysteriously had a warp storm help him by killing all his rivals while they were fleeing from Terra when he had begun making his move to take over the Ecclesiarchy. 

He had said something along the lines that was proof that the Emperor had condoned his actions, and later on in his career he goes on to claim that he had been speaking with the Emperor.

I think it is also mentioned in one of the Chaos Codex's that in can be or has been used as a staging point for  them to them launch attacks.

Does that sound like something the Emperor would create? Something that would put his Empire at risk?


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## Red Angel (Feb 2, 2014)

Well even if he didn't and it was a lesser/equal being, it would suggest it within his capabilities, powerscaling and whatnot

With or without it, the rest are legit


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## Captain Tenneal (Feb 2, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Well even if he didn't and it was a lesser/equal being, it would suggest it within his capabilities, powerscaling and whatnot
> 
> With or without it, the rest are legit



Well to at least hold back the demons he still needs the sacrifice of psykers.

But I won't deny the rest, him beating the Void Dragon is an insane feat, even if it was a shard, it wasn't their power that was broken it it was their minds.


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## NemeBro (Feb 2, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> Physical? Dunno.
> But he exchanged planetbusting and supernova level attacks with the Chaos-infused Horus.
> So his shields are at least that good.



As I recall, Horus literally ripped the Emperor to pieces in that fight. He tore his arm off, crushed his wrist, popped his eyeballs with lightning, and basically dismembered him. I think he tore his throat out and some other shit as well.

Horus' attacks were going through him like butter. 

This is all ignoring that Collected Visions, the source of most of this information, is explicitly consisted of embellished accounts.

"Later that samey ear Games'Workshopp ublished the miniatures game AdeptusTitanicuasn d the seminal
'Warhammer/lVarhammer
4o,ooo supplement xealm of chaos- Slavesto DarhnessB. oth of these featured
expanded histories and background information about the Heresy, firmly establishing it as the most important
and evocative story of the Warhammer 4o,ooo mythos.* Since then the legend has been embellished*, added to
and utilised as a wellspring of ideas for the'Warhammer 4o,ooo game and its related productS, as Games
W'orkshop has continued its exploration of the grim darkness of the far future. The Horus Heresy has acquired
legendarys tatusa mongste nthusiastso f the'Warhammer4 o,ooou niverse,b ut the full story has never before
been collected together as a single narrative."
- Collected Visions, page 7 or 8

Sorry about the shitty quality of the quote, copied and pasted directly from a pdf file.


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## NemeBro (Feb 2, 2014)

Captain Tenneal said:


> Well to at least hold back the demons he still needs the sacrifice of psykers.



Actually he was capable of holding back Chaos beyond the Webway Gate in the hole Magnus accidentally punched through it, as shown in the audiobook The Sigillite.


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## Captain Tenneal (Feb 2, 2014)

NemeBro said:


> Actually he was capable of holding back Chaos beyond the Webway Gate in the hole Magnus accidentally punched through it, as shown in the audiobook The Sigillite.



Thanks for that, is that the one with the skulls with the roman numerals for 10 and 2 are embedded in the skulls? I don't buy the audio books I prefer to read physical things.

On topic, on my original post about the the emperor's storm that occurred in M36 (The age apostasy) it was also a time known for its large increase in warp storms, and  a strengthening of the Eye of Terror. So that massive storm may not even be related to any being at all and just be a natural phenomenon.  

I also have a quick question:

I think I remember hearing or reading somewhere that the Golden Throne's original purpose was an psychic amplifier or at least the tech it was based off was, I think it may have been in Mechanicum but I'm not sure. Does anyone know if this is true or have heard something similar?


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## NemeBro (Feb 2, 2014)

Yeah, that's the one.

The Golden Throne's original purpose was a sort of psychic amplifier, yeah, only it would be used to maintain the Webway Gate on Terra, and allow instantaneous and safe travel throughout the galaxy for the Imperium. Originally, the Emperor intended Magnus the Red to power it. 

Also, let it be said that I don't really doubt the Emperor's psychic power, only his physical prowess. Punching planets apart? No. Never happened.


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## Captain Tenneal (Feb 3, 2014)

Thanks 

I just wanted to make sure what I was recalling was correct. 

Edit:

Removed comments about canon didn't realize this was what was agitating you at the time Skarbrand, I didn't see your post. 

Sorry man.


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## Red Angel (Feb 3, 2014)

Oh Jesus not this again.....


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## Captain Tenneal (Feb 3, 2014)

Turns out the Emp’s fight is not as cool as everyone was saying here.

Here read it Void Dragon vs Emp  (Mechanium, 314-315 on ebook) – I broke it up into paragraphs to make it easier to read:


*Spoiler*: __ 



_‘At this point in time, he is known as a soldier of the Emperor Diocletian, one who has risen to high honour in the army and who is passing through Libya to join his men.’ Dalia almost wept at the sight of the knight, a being of a fairer presence than any she had seen and one whose wondrous power was undimmed by the passage of years. 

The knight spurred his horse and swiftly overtook the procession, riding towards the dark scar in the earth. No sooner had he halted his mount and set his shield upon his arm than the Dragon surged from its lair, roaring with a sound louder than thunder. Dalia’s hands flew to her mouth and she cried out as she saw the Dragon’s monstrous form. In shape it was half crawling beast, half loathsome bird, its scaled head immense and its tail twenty metres long. Its terrible winged body was covered with scales, so strong and bright and smooth that they were like a knight’s armour. 

The light of devoured stars shone at its breast and malignant fire burned in its eyes. The warrior knight leapt to meet the Dragon, striking the monster with his lance, but its scales were so hard that the weapon broke into a thousand pieces. From the back of his rearing horse, the warrior smote the dragon with his sword, but the beast struck at him with talons like scythe blades. The warrior’s armour split open and Dalia saw blood pouring down his leg in a bright stream. The Dragon towered over its foe, dealing him fearful blows, but the knight caught them upon his shield and thrust his sword against the Dragon’s belly. 

The scales of the beast were like steel plates, rippling like liquid mercury as they withstood the knight’s every attack. Then the Dragon, infuriated by the thrust, lashed itself against the knight and his horse, and cast lightning upon him from its eyes. The knight’s helmet was torn from him and Dalia saw his face shine out from the battle, pale, lit by some radiance that shone from within. As he thrust at the Dragon, that radiance grew in power, so that at last it was like the light of a newborn sun. 

The Dragon looped itself around the knight, clawing and biting at his armour and roaring in triumph. Then, as though the thought had come from the warrior, Dalia saw that, no matter how the Dragon writhed, it sought always to protect one place in its body, a place beneath its left wing. ‘Strike, warrior, strike!’ she urged. 

As if hearing her words, the knight bent downward and lunged forward, thrusting his sword with a mighty bellow into the Dragon’s body. The creature gave out a deafening roar that shook stones from the city walls and the burning radiance in its breast was extinguished. Its grasp upon the knight loosened and the lightning faded from its eyes as the great beast fell to the ground. 

Perceiving that the Dragon was helpless, though not dead, the knight untied the long white banner from his shattered lance and bound it around the neck of the monster. With the Dragon subdued, the knight turned to the astounded handmaidens and the people of the city, who streamed from its gates in a riot of adulation. 

The knight raised a hand to quiet them, and such was his presence and radiance that all who beheld him fell silent. ‘The Dragon is defeated!’ cried the warrior. ‘But it is beyond even my power to destroy, so I shall drag it in fetters from this place and bind it deep in the darkness, where it will remain until the end of all things.’ So saying, the knight rode off with the Dragon bound behind him, leaving the scene behind him as immobile as a painting.'_




On the next page it is implied that the dragon wasn't placed on Mars until M10, as part of a 20,000 year scheme by the Emperor (Book takes place in M30).

I also find it hilarious he can tow a dragon with a 20 metre tail with his horse. 

Edit:

Removed comments about canon didn't realize this was what was agitating you at the time Skarbrand, I didn't see your post. 

Sorry man.


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## Red Angel (Feb 3, 2014)

Ugh, because nobody likes canon debates, because they're ghey

What's your point? If the Emperor can evenly match and non get immediately blitzed and owned before he can even think, the he has FTL reaction, powerscaling is an essential asset in vs debates here (we do this shit for many characters here so, yeah)


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 3, 2014)

Because 40k has this canon and not canon policy you have to look at how the sources fit together as a cohesive whole rather than as they are singularly. So (for the sake of an argument, I'm just making this up) one source might show us the Emperor creating the Universe while another shows us him being born into it.

With such a canon policy how are we meant to know which is which? Well, it turns out that a majority of stories within the canon present the Emperor as a Champion of Man, born at some point in the universe, we could thus discard whichever source tells us he created it.

Applying this to the current dilemma, i.e, is the Emperor a Planet Buster we can find out the truth of the matter. First thing to do would be to look at what other feats on that level exist in the fluff, I happen to know that there are a few we can look at, one would be a Daemon draining a Star and another would be the fact that one Primarch (I forget which) entered the atmosphere of his homeplanet with such force that when he hit the ground he shattered the continents, or something along those lines.

We can also say that there at least exists the potential for such things aside from the above, which are presented as feats. Khorne's blade has been described as powerful enough to lay waste to planets with single swings, and cut through the fabric of reality itself.


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## Red Angel (Feb 3, 2014)

Then there C'Tans draining stars and destroying solar systems easily and I think some planet moving feats here and there


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## Captain Tenneal (Feb 3, 2014)

Edit:

Removed comments about canon didn't realize this was what was agitating you at the time Skarbrand, I didn't see your post. 

Sorry man.


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## Red Angel (Feb 3, 2014)

Captain Tenneal said:


> You forgetting the fact that George Mann the head of the black library had said this:
> 
> "...only the Studio material (rulebooks, codexes, army books and suchlike) was canonical in that it HAD to be adhered-to in the plots and background of the novels. There was no obligation on authors to adhere to facts and events as spelled out in Black Library work."
> 
> ...



Or perhaps everything is still canon unless contradicted by later material (though from what I gather that's mostly a community decision to actually sort shit) and either everything is canon or not and BL is allowed. You can't have both because that makes no sense. Maybe that idea eluded your ass?

I suggest you lurk moar because you seem horrendously out of touch with how shit goes 'round here


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 3, 2014)

"...only canonical in that..."

Is the important part here.

If you like you can view it as a way of saying that stuff in codices and rule books takes a high precedence over other stuff, basically it's saying that the Black Library authors are not at liberty to overwrite entire character backgrounds, simply add to them.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 3, 2014)

so what is the consensus about that C'Than/shard discussion with NemeBro ?

the thing that Emperor fought was a FTL star-buster ?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 3, 2014)

Starbusting bit may or may not be relevant.

Emps got dat Supernova laser of his own anyway.

FTL is probably important, though I'm having trouble believing Surfer could blitz him from a Lightyear away.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 3, 2014)

Putting aside speed and planet busting, can someone explain to me what level Silver Surfers Telepathy resistance is on?

Have we decided whether or not the Emperor can just mindfuck him?


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## Captain Tenneal (Feb 3, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> "...only canonical in that..."
> 
> Is the important part here.
> 
> If you like you can view it as a way of saying that stuff in codices and rule books takes a high precedence over other stuff, basically it's saying that the Black Library authors are not at liberty to overwrite entire character backgrounds, simply add to them.



This is the entire thing:


*Spoiler*: __ 



"In further conversation, George emphasized that Black Library’s *main objective was to 'tell good stories'*. He agreed that some points in certain novels could, perhaps, have benefited from the editor’s red pen (a certain multilaser was mentioned) but was at pains to explain that, *just as each hobbyist tends to interpret the background and facts of the Warhammer and 40K worlds differently, so does each author.* In essence, *each author represents an “alternative” version of the respective worlds.* After pressing him further, he explained that only the Studio material (rulebooks, codexes, army books and suchlike) was canonical in that it HAD to be adhered-to in the plots and background of the novels. There was no obligation on authors to adhere to facts and events as spelled out in Black Library work."




Edit:

Removed comments about canon didn't realize this was what was agitating you at the time Skarbrand, I didn't see your post. 

Sorry man.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 3, 2014)

That's what I just said.

I think.


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## Captain Tenneal (Feb 3, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Or perhaps everything is still canon unless contradicted by later material (though from what I gather that's mostly a community decision to actually sort shit) and either everything is canon or not and BL is allowed. You can't have both because that makes no sense. Maybe that idea eluded your ass?
> 
> I suggest you lurk moar because you seem horrendously out of touch with how shit goes 'round here



Edit:

Removed comments about canon didn't realize this was what was agitating you at the time Skarbrand, I didn't see your post. 

Sorry man.


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## Captain Tenneal (Feb 3, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> That's what I just said.
> 
> I think.



Oh okay my bad.


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## Red Angel (Feb 3, 2014)

Captain Tenneal said:


> What your describing is revisionism, that isn't supported by the everything is canon/non-canon thing. But I am unsure of what is your saying.
> 
> This may help its another quote from the same guy that did the thing about the everything is canon:
> 
> ...



Any point showing me something I've seen many times and is practically common knowledge?



> Putting aside speed and planet busting, can someone explain to me what level Silver Surfers Telepathy resistance is on?
> 
> Have we decided whether or not the Emperor can just mindfuck him?



Dunno. If the SS has resisted mindfuck from Charles Xavier or something then he might be able to resist, otherwise, yeah


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## Captain Tenneal (Feb 3, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> Starbusting bit may or may not be relevant.
> 
> Emps got dat Supernova laser of his own anyway.
> 
> FTL is probably important, though I'm having trouble believing Surfer could blitz him from a Lightyear away.



I posted a scan in the first page of the Surfer traveling a distance greater than a light year away.

The scans were basically surfer leaves as Thanos is about to punch Captain America, and appears and Thanos's hand hasn't moved at all. 

he misses as I believe he ducks but he had the Infinity gauntlet at the time. 

I can also post scans of Godhunter 2 when he engages Beta Ray Bill and Skuttlebot in hyperspace (Which you have to enter once you reach speeds greater than FTL).


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## Captain Tenneal (Feb 3, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Any point showing me something I've seen many times and is practically common knowledge?
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno. If the SS has resisted mindfuck from Charles Xavier or something then he might be able to resist, otherwise, yeah



I posted a Scan of him resisting Moondragon + the Mind Gem on the 2nd page! moondragon is considered one of the strongest telepaths in Marvel and she had the mind gem.

Did no one look at the scans I posted a while back?

Edit:

Sorry Skarbrand I did not see your post about the canon thing, at the time I could only see Nightbringer's thing I did not see your post.

I didn't mean to agitate you.


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## willyvereb (Feb 3, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> Starbusting bit may or may not be relevant.
> 
> Emps got dat Supernova laser of his own anyway.
> 
> FTL is probably important, though I'm having trouble believing Surfer could blitz him from a Lightyear away.


The low MFTL feat still stands because even if the retcon makes every C'Tan we later encounter a shard, the Deceiver's feat would be still as applicable to this Void Dragon entity as it was before.
And the Emperor did beat this entity.

As for physical prowess, we have no idea aside from powrscaling to the Primarchs indeed.
Unless there's a text saying that the Emperor harmed the Void Dragon with his punches, he stays at continent level.
Also whether the Emperor can destroy planets with his punches or not, it doesn't matter.
It's just like DBZ. The most impressive physical destruction the Z Fighters caused was island/mountain level. Yet we have examples of characters killing or seriously harming others with planet/small star level durability.
So yeah, there's a difference between "concentrated attacks" and actual destructive force.
Just like how energy blasts can take out planet level characters without actually harming the planet, even on misfire.


Anyways, as far as this discussion goes.
The Emperor has no chance and I thought this should be obvious from the get go.
Even if by some luck the C'Tan powerscaling is enough to prevent a speedblitz, the Silver Surfer should be still much faster.
Meaning he could deliver the first attack like creating singularities in the Emperor's brain and other nasties.
Also in terms of power the Silver Surfer is still considerably above him.
We have calcs that put Thor at star system level, IIRC.
The Silver Surfer is considerably above this.
There's also the fact he resisted the Mind Gem.
While Charles Xavier's telepathy is versatile and potent, it's still inferior to the Emperor's.
The Mind Gem on the other hand offers dominance over all minds in the universe.
Given how many alien civilizations exists in Marvel (not counting cosmics who are above this), the Mind Gem's power should be at least a match to the Emperor's telepathy.
So yeah, Silver Surfer nearly stomps here.


EDIT:


CerBorg said:


> They start 1 light-year away. They know of the other's location at the start of the fight.


Oh, I didn't notice this.
Well, there goes the option for speedblitz.
Unless Silver Surfer is 93 billion times faster he certainly won't blitz here.
On the other hand range has other issues.
Namely that unless we count the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath as his doing, I'm kinda doubtful the Emperor can attack from that far.
Telepathy yes.
And now if I think about it Magnus sent a psychic wave from Prospero to Earth which damaged the Webway Gate as a side effect so perhaps it's plausible if the Emperor is aware of the target's location.
And the said attack then homes right to the enemy's mind/soul.


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## Captain Tenneal (Feb 3, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> The low MFTL feat still stands because even if the retcon makes every C'Tan we later encounter a shard, the Deceiver's feat would be still as applicable to this Void Dragon entity as it was before.
> And the Emperor did beat this entity.
> 
> As for physical prowess, we have no idea aside from powrscaling to the Primarchs indeed.
> ...



In the infinity Gauntlet he travels a distance greater than a light year almost instantly, if he bull rushes him (And manages to hit) this fight might end before the Emp. can do anything.

Edit:

Can you provide a source for the Deceiver's low MFTL feat? Was it attack speed or travel speed? I just want to look it up, instead of you guys telling me upscale all the time, without providing a source of what you're upscaling from.


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## Silver Surfer (Feb 3, 2014)

Guess who?


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## NemeBro (Feb 4, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> The low MFTL feat still stands because even if the retcon makes every C'Tan we later encounter a shard, the Deceiver's feat would be still as applicable to this Void Dragon entity as it was before.
> And the Emperor did beat this entity.



This interests me. Which Deceiver feat are you referring to?



> EDIT:
> Oh, I didn't notice this.
> Well, there goes the option for speedblitz.
> Unless Silver Surfer is 93 billion times faster he certainly won't blitz here.
> ...



The Emperor doesn't appear to have true cosmic awareness, considering how he couldn't keep tabs on his sons. Silver Surfer does.


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## willyvereb (Feb 4, 2014)

Been a while.
I think it's the story where unknowingly an Assassin tried to kill the Deceiver with a C'Tan Phase Blade.
In the aftermath the Deceiver was on a different star system or something.
Or was it when Techpriests meet the Deceiver? I dunno.

The C'Tan also technically were traveling from star to star.
So they must possess a degree of MFTL speed.
Not even nearly as good as the Silver Surfer's, mind you.


As for the lack of cosmic awareness.
It's partially true.
The Emperor is far from all-knowing but he does possess a fairly monstrous precog.
It just happens that the Chaos did mess with that.
In comparison the Silver Surfer doesn't have such ability.
And the approach of an extremely powerful being who's about to kill him would send the loudest warning bells possible.

Still, the Emperor is practically helpless to do much against the Silver Surfer.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 4, 2014)

I think psychers in 40k have shown the ability to be aware of things going on far away from them. OP says that the Emperor already knows where he is, so he doesn't have to search for him or anything like that.

He probably can't keep track of Surfer moving though.


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