# Big Mom vs Garp



## Ruse (Oct 21, 2017)

Scenario 1: MF Garp 

Scenario 2: Prime Garp 

How does it go?

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## savior2005 (Oct 21, 2017)

against any other yonko, mf garp would prolly lose. but since this is big mom, mf garp wins.

Prime garp definately wins

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 2


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## Dunno (Oct 21, 2017)

Scenario 1: Could go either way

Scenario 2: Garp high diffs


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 21, 2017)

S1: Tie
S2: Prime Garp High or upper end of mid diffs


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## TheWiggian (Oct 22, 2017)

Old Garp mid diffs.
Prime Garp stomps.

I think this been shown clearly by the manga. She can't even defeat a bunch of fodders like Nami. Hell she never even fought someone remotely strong, not even her subordinates ever fought someone strong.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 4


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## Gohara (Oct 22, 2017)

In my opinion:

1. Big Mam's character wins with high to extremely high difficulty.  Prior to The Totland Arc I would suggest that match up can go either way.  However Big Mam's character continues to be more impressive.  I doubt that Old Garp is as physically strong or as defensively amazing as Big Mam's character.  Garp's martial arts skills are likely superior.  Haki wise Old Garp might or might not be more impressive.  Big Mam's character has amazing Devil Fruit Abilities as well though.

2. Prime Garp wins with mid to high (closer to high than mid) difficulty based on portrayal so far.


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## Blanco (Oct 22, 2017)

Ouch for Garp. Big mom has so much abilties + her physical strength is probably around the same. Big mom beats his marineford version.

If its against Prime Garp. Garp edges it out.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Tenma (Oct 22, 2017)

Garp punts her both scenarios.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sherlōck (Oct 22, 2017)

Garp fists her.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Orca (Oct 22, 2017)

Big Mom extreme diffs old Garp. While Big mom is pretty old herself, her age doesn't seem to have been highlighted as such. She seems to be abnormal in that sense. Or at least that's the vibe I get.

Prime Garp extreme diffs Big mom. Don't think a Garp or a Rayleigh would win with anything less if they do win in the first place.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 22, 2017)

Tricky one. Garp hype is legit, but his feats start and stop at him punching really really hard, meanwhile we haven't seen Big Mom succumb to any kind of physical damage when not in emotional distress. Based on that, MF Garp can't do shit to her. A more conventional match up would probably be Prime Garp vs. Current Big Mom. Both have ridiculous fire power to push each other out of the way(example: punching her to a nearby body of water). It would be up to how Garp counters Big Mom's Homies and hax. I'd say extreme-diff to either.


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## Sherlōck (Oct 22, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Both have ridiculous fire power



Example of Meme's firepower.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 22, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> Example of Meme's firepower.



Made it a habit not to reply to peeps that refer to Big Mom as that, but you can research that stuff on your own.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Admiral Kizaru (Oct 22, 2017)

She hasn't faced a top tier attack head on - the closest was Luffy's G4 attack and she had time to prepare a block for that so I'm not going to assume BM's hype card means she's invulnerable to a top tier attack.


1) Extreme difficulty match. Really could go either way but I'm ever so slightly leaning towards Garp here. Physical strength Garp should edge it as he renowned for that but BM has him beat in durability & versatility (thanks to her homies). However BM's "memeness" costs her a few points (as it does against any top tier).

2) Garp high difficulty. Add 10% to his overall stats and it should give him a small bit of breathing room for the win.


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## Nekochako (Oct 22, 2017)

Prime Garp high diffs 

Big Mom extreme diffs diffs old Garp


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## Kylo Ren (Oct 22, 2017)

MF Garp Vs Big Mom - Can go either way imo because Garp is old but I feel he's still stronger and can go toe to toe with BM.

Prime Garp Vs Big Mom - Garp High diff. I consider him on par with Roger and WB in their prime as the top three fighter in their generation.


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## Sherlōck (Oct 22, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Made it a habit not to reply to peeps that refer to Big Mom as that, but you can research that stuff on your own.



Not my fault Oda wrote her that way. 

I am still waiting for my answer though.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Richard Lionheart (Oct 22, 2017)

Marineford Garp is not as durable as Big Mom, thats for sure. I dont think he can win the fight, if the fight lasts several days.

Prime Garp is said to be on par with Roger. He defeats her.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 22, 2017)

S1: could go either way tbh.
S2: fists, fists everywhere.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 22, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> I am still waiting for my answer though.



Was I not clear?


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## Sherlōck (Oct 22, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Was I not clear?



I mean if you claim something you have to bring proof to support your claim. 

If you say earth is flat it's not my job to bring evidence that supports your claim, it's yours. 

If you don't have it just say so. I don't mind.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 22, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> I mean if you claim something you have to bring proof to support your claim.
> 
> If you say earth is flat it's not my job to bring evidence that supports your claim, it's yours.
> 
> If you don't have it just say so. I don't mind.



Likewise I don't debate with flat earthers


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## Sherlōck (Oct 22, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Likewise I don't debate with flat earthers



Is this your best comeback? I am disappointed. 

Quote me again when you are ready to show proof of BM's alleged "*ridiculous firepower*".

Otherwise don't bother.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 22, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> Is this your best comeback? I am disappointed.
> 
> Quote me again when you are ready to show proof of BM's alleged "*ridiculous firepower*".
> 
> Otherwise don't bother.



I wasn't attempting at a comeback, I'm just trying to explain to you that I have no interest in debating with you. Likewise, maybe you shouldn't bother replying?


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## Ruse (Oct 22, 2017)

First one seems to be more split then I thought, figured most would favor Big Mom. 

S1: BM extreme diff, Garp will give her the fight of her life but I can see her outlasting him

S2: Garp high diff


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## Sherlōck (Oct 22, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> I wasn't attempting at a comeback, I'm just trying to explain to you that I have no interest in debating with you. Likewise, maybe you shouldn't bother replying?



It's been a long time since I have seen someone so triggered cause I called a fictional characters names. 

Regardless of calling her Meme I was actually serious about debating the topic at hand.

Nonetheless, since you are so triggered I will stop.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 22, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> It's been a long time since I have seen someone so triggered cause I called a fictional characters names.
> 
> Regardless of calling her Meme I was actually serious about debating the topic at hand.
> 
> Nonetheless, since you are so triggered I will stop.



Is that your definition of triggered? 

Okay. As long as we're done.


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## Bernkastel (Oct 23, 2017)

1st scenario could go either way 
2nd Garp wins very high diff


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## Shanks (Oct 23, 2017)

S1 Big Mom win
S2 Big Mom lose


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## MO (Oct 23, 2017)

1. big momg high diffs ain't going higher.

2. garp extremes.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 23, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Tricky one. Garp hype is legit, but his feats start and stop at him punching really really hard, meanwhile we haven't seen Big Mom succumb to any kind of physical damage when not in emotional distress. Based on that, MF Garp can't do shit to her. A more conventional match up would probably be Prime Garp vs. Current Big Mom. Both have ridiculous fire power to push each other out of the way(example: punching her to a nearby body of water). It would be up to how Garp counters Big Mom's Homies and hax. I'd say extreme-diff to either.



The best tanking feat she has is tanking a attack weaker then EL Thor. 

Which is no where near enough to say Garp can't do shit to her. Espicailly considering there is no one past or present that Garp cant give a hard fight to. I assume you were just being hubruis with that statement though. 

Anyway only person Prime Garp loses to is Prime Whitebeard and Prime Roger. He smashes big moms face in. 

Old Garp loses high diff.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 23, 2017)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> The best tanking feat she has is tanking a attack weaker then EL Thor.
> 
> Which is no where near enough to say Garp can't do shit to her. Espicailly considering there is no one past or present that Garp cant give a hard fight to. I assume you were just being hubruis with that statement though.
> 
> ...



Actually her best tanking feat is neg-diffing an Elbaf sword attack at 5 years old. You can scale that to what she's capable of at her current age. 

I wasn't being anything(actually laughable that you think that). I've seen a lot of claims on how Big Mom will get destroyed by such and such attack, when in reality her hype and implied feats puts her at the absolute top of the tanking ladder. For example, she'd tank everything thrown at MF Whitebeard except maybe Akainu's attacks but even then it's only because I'm assuming Oda will draw a limit to her physical invincibility.  

Fact is, so far (which is the number one rule of any battledome thread) her skin can't be penetrated without her being in emotional distress. Whether there's a limit for that is yet to be seen, but for a battledome thread this is the only conclusion I can draw.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 23, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Actually her best tanking feat is neg-diffing an Elbaf sword attack at 5 years old. You can scale that to what she's capable of at her current age.
> 
> I wasn't being anything(actually laughable that you think that). I've seen a lot of claims on how Big Mom will get destroyed by such and such attack, when in reality her hype and implied feats puts her at the absolute top of the tanking ladder. For example, she'd tank everything thrown at MF Whitebeard except maybe Akainu's attacks but even then it's only because I'm assuming Oda will draw a limit to her physical invincibility.
> 
> Fact is, so far (which is the number one rule of any battledome thread) her skin can't be penetrated without her being in emotional distress. Whether there's a limit for that is yet to be seen, but for a battledome thread this is the only conclusion I can draw.



A impressive feat no doubt but its extremely hard to gauge. We dont know how strong that giant was and we dont know how much more moms natural durability has improved since she was a kid. As far as feats we can acurately gauge and compare to others we know she can tank a EL Thor level attack without Haki defense.

Thats what we call a NLF. Sure Big Mom is quite possibly the most durable thing on the planet im not going to say she isnt. Doesnt mean garp the fucking fist is incapable of hurting her. Thats a ridiclous notion as far as im concerned. Nothing on the planet that Garp cant hurt but your free to think otherwise. Im going to wait for some feats before i say someone can no sell punches from Garp myself. 

Although im confused as to how you can have a extreme diff fight with someone who can do little to no damage to you. Its not like Garp has some tricky powers to him that you might have to deal with.


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## Big Mom (Oct 25, 2017)

1. Big Mom definitely wins this, with a high amount of difficulty of course. 

2. I don't entirely know the scope of Garp in his prime, so we can't really tell.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## DA hawk (Oct 25, 2017)

S1: idk lean towards garp
S2: garp


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 25, 2017)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Although im confused as to how you can have a extreme diff fight with someone who can do little to no damage to you. Its not like Garp has some tricky powers to him that you might have to deal with.



As I explained in my initial post. Garp can still drown Big Mom in a nearby sea. He may not be able to damage her(as far as we know) but he can still push her around.

I'm saying her durability is freakish hax. Somehow linked to her emotional status. Like, she might even be more durable during her tantrums.

It's possible that Big Mom was never directly challenged by a top tier before because of her ridiculous hax. Might explain why Roger tricked her instead of fighting her head on.


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## A Optimistic (Oct 25, 2017)

Luffee said:


> While Big mom is pretty old herself, her age doesn't seem to have been highlighted as such.



When was Garp's age highlighted?


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## Orca (Oct 25, 2017)

Ava said:


> When was Garp's age highlighted?



Most of the legends from Garp's age group are either retired or inactive. If you put a picture of Garp with grey hair next to the one with shiny black hair, I'd be hard pressed to say he hasn't regressed a little bit. Most of Garp's legacy stems from his actions and exploits from back in the Roger days. I mean yes he stayed a marine after Roger's death as well but I think its fair to say that the peak of his career was chasing and cornering Roger.

On the other hand, even in the crazy world of one piece Big mom seems more of a beast and much less humanized than people like Garp or Rayleigh. And while we know she was an active pirate during Roger's days, she's still an active Yonko and competing with the other Yonko over the past 20 years probably makes her more recent than Garp.

I mean it could be revealed in the next few chaps that she's past her expiry date as well but for now this is how I see it.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## trance (Oct 26, 2017)

only the first scenario is debatable; Garp probably has stronger Haki and greater physical strength and speed but meme's defense to conventional damage is pretty infamous 

gonna say toss up



Ruse said:


> Scenario 2: Prime Garp



Garp fists her


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## Tenma (Oct 26, 2017)

When did people stop considering the Hero of the Marines yonko level?


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 26, 2017)

Ava said:


> When was Garp's age highlighted?



I believe when he throws those canon balls at Luffy he says he has weakened quite a bit in his old age. Still stronger than any admiral at that point though

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sumu (Oct 26, 2017)

MF Garp edges out a win. 

Big Mom is gonna get a good fisting from 
Prime Garp high diff.


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## A Optimistic (Oct 26, 2017)

Seraphoenix said:


> I believe when he throws those canon balls at Luffy he says he has weakened quite a bit in his old age. Still stronger than any admiral at that point though


You're right, I forgot about that scene thanks.


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## Masa (Oct 26, 2017)

Garp could probably win both. He is faster than her and strong enough to punch or chuck her into the ocean farther than Zeus could catch her and she has been shown to not be able to do shit on her own while in free fall.


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## hbcaptain (Nov 1, 2017)

It can go either way against Prime Garp, Old Garp in other hands definitly loses.

Reactions: Like 3 | Disagree 1


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## Arles Celes (Nov 6, 2017)

Garp is a gentleman. 

He won't hit hot chicks.


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## trance (Nov 6, 2017)

hbcaptain said:


> It can go either way against Prime Garp



nah, meme gets fisted


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## Kyte (Nov 7, 2017)

brawn for BM and brain for Garp. 

I would give the fatty both scenarios but prime Garp should easily be able to troll and fuck her up good with that amount of naivety and autism.


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## Mercurius (Nov 11, 2017)

Garp.


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## neonlight (Nov 12, 2017)

MF Garp is overrated. He was bleeding heavily from a pre-TS hakiless G2 punch. Durability is a serious issue.


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## Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (Nov 15, 2017)

I think there is a huge difference between mf Garp and prime garp. Prime Garp and Roger were implied to have almost killed each other numerous times, so it can be easily assumed that they were incredibly close in strength (Roger might've been stronger though). Which in turn also makes him incredibly close in strength with prime whitebeard who was also said to be on par with Roger. Even Old whitebeard was still stated the strongest man in the world, Kaido couldn't bring him down no matter his attempt.

Big mom is arguably the weakest of the yonko, so if kaido couldn't bring down old whitebeard then big mom certainly can't either. With that said I can't really compare old whitebeard and mf Garp because we have seen too little from mf Garp, but I'm still gonna assume mf Garp wins high diff. Prime Garp completely stomps though.


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## IllmaticKingC (Nov 19, 2017)

Big mom r1 mid
Prime Garp low-mid

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 19, 2017)

Meme can win extreme diff or maybe even just high-diff S1 .. sorry 

Prime Garp high-diff or mid-diff S2


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## Harard (Nov 19, 2017)

Big Mom is kinda underrated due to her crew being so weak.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Nov 19, 2017)

When you think about it, Marineford Garp probably isn't much weaker than Prime Garp. He was still an active marine, didn't basically retire like Rayleigh and wasn't held back like Whitebeard. His stamina and Haki are possibly a bit weaker, but he still defeats Big Mom after a good fight.


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## savior2005 (Nov 20, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> When you think about it, Marineford Garp probably isn't much weaker than Prime Garp. He was still an active marine, didn't basically retire like Rayleigh and wasn't held back like Whitebeard. His stamina and Haki are possibly a bit weaker, but he still defeats Big Mom after a good fight.


yup, all this. on top of the fact that it's Big Mom he's fighting.

Now, had it been Shanks or Kaido, MF Garp would lose.


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## Arthur CM (Nov 21, 2017)

1: bm high diffs

2p mid-low diffs


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## Deleted member 211714 (Nov 26, 2017)

Tale said:


> Why do people think MF Garp stands a chance against Big Mom?
> I get that he wasn't sick, but that doesn't mean his old age isn't a problem. At that point, he was even older than Whitebeard
> (the same age as Rayleigh, who was wheezing within minutes in his battle vs Kizaru) and there's no evidence that Garp has fought anyone significant in years. Furthermore, his role and accomplishments in the war don't conform with what's been said about him here. The Admirals and other Vice-Admirals did most of the fighting, and when he and Sengoku teamed up against the Blackbeard Pirates, they don't seem to have achieved much, despite the fact that Blackbeard didn't think half of his crew stood a chance against someone like Ace. MF Garp is way past his prime and we have no idea how severely his age affected him, but there's little reason to think he can fight a Yonkou. Big Mom is still ridiculously strong.
> 
> As for prime Garp, I suspect it can go either way, with Garp having an edge. I don't believe Roger and Whitebeard were that much stronger than other Yonkirals, in the sense that we can place them in a separate tier. They were the strongest people in that tier but there's no evidence that they had more than edge on other people in that tier, imo.



It's not like the admirals fight anyone significant, either. Does that make them as weak as Garp due to not fighting anyone significant? If they were to walk into an emperor's territory, they would get killed.  Kizaru also wasn't very thrilled when Rayleigh showed up, as he thought his time at Sabaody would be easy. That kind of suggests the admirals don't run into powerful enemies very often. The exception would be a place like Marineford getting attacked. Whitebeard Pirates and Shiki come to mind.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Nov 26, 2017)

Tale said:


> The point wasn't that not fighting anyone significant means you're weak, but that being _old _and also having no recent history of impressive battles is _some_ evidence that one has weakened. (I'm not saying it's evidence that can't be overturned by something else).
> 
> The same argument can't apply to the Admirals, because we know various things about them. They're not old and they're said to be the strongest military power among the Marines. Also, it's not exactly true that we haven't seen them fight significant individuals: we know that they have at least ought WB and his crew (which Garp didn't) and in the case of Akainu and Aokiji, each other, and Kizaru fought Rayleigh.
> 
> MF Garp has nothing like that supporting him.



Garp knocked back Marco like a small nuisance, while the admirals were truly struggling with him. The difference is portrayal is clear. Sengoku also had to hold back Garp to prevent him from killing Akainu. You're wrong about the admirals not being old, as well. Kizaru is almost 60 years old. The youngest one is Aokiji, but the rest of them are definitely over 50 years old.

We know that the admirals fought Whitebeard Pirates, but that was only at Marineford as one of the exceptions I'd stated. Garp also momentarily fought Marco and assisted Sengoku in some off-panel clash with Blackbeard Pirates. None of that supports Garp having nothing. Normally, there's not really some indication that any of the strongest marines are always running into powerful enemies. Rather, it's kind of rare and limited to circumstances like Marineford. Kizaru's reaction to Rayleigh proves that.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 27, 2017)

old Garp cant kill Akainu, lets be real here

Prime G can

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Nov 27, 2017)

Weiss said:


> old Garp cant kill Akainu, lets be real here
> 
> Prime G can


 He might have been able to beat Akainu at the time (since Akainu was battle worn) but given Akainu survive a bloodlusted quake punch and punched half of WB's face off, I can't even imagine what would have happened to Garp at the time.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Deleted member 211714 (Nov 27, 2017)

Tale said:


> You mean Garp punched Marco once, doing (as far as we know) no observable damage, and that somehow is better portrayal than Kizaru obliterating half of Marco's body, or Akainu shrugging off both Vista and Marco at the same time, and so on and so forth? It was just a punch against someone who didn't do anything to defend himself and which may have caught Marco by surprise, especially if he was assuming that Garp would refrain from participating like before.



A tacit way to downplay the feat. Punching Marco once, sending him to the ground and sending a message to all pirates in just one page. He even sits in Akainu's seat and gets acknowledged by Whitebeard. Kizaru only actually managed to defeat Marco with a distraction and assistance from Onigumo with seastone. Akainu was visibly irritated by a combination attack from Marco and Vista, while you also leave out the fact that Marco is the sole reason why Whitebeard even managed to land a hit on Akainu in the first place. Akainu was unable to get past Marco. Like I said, the difference in portrayal is clear. Marco wasn't blindsided by Garp. He was flying up to the execution platform with at least one top-tier character nearby and got taken out by someone with better stats.

You saw the look in Marco's face. He could have tried the same tactic again, but there was no point in trying it. He would have to face someone like that. We never see Marco showing restraint against the admirals.



> I don't think the fact that Sengoku held back Garp means he believed Garp could have actually killed Akainu. That's an assumption you're making and he would have done the same thing even if Garp was no threat to Akainu because he knew what Garp was doing was wrong, as a marine.



Why not? Whitebeard Pirates were pretty much finished by that point. Anyone could have seen it.
Even if Garp managed to take Akainu out of the equation, there still would have been enough manpower to defeat an injured Whitebeard who got effortlessly trolled by Kizaru and the remnants of Whitebeard Pirates.

Sengoku didn't even want Akainu to become Fleet Admiral. You can tell that he views his justice as very extreme and even appointed someone as lazy as Aokiji. The admirals are disposable to the point that World Government doesn't even care to see two of them having a deathmatch, which could have potentially killed either one of them. That same deathmatch also forced a powerful individual in Aokiji to abandon post. They eventually just enlisted another two, so it doesn't even matter to kill one of them off in the grand scheme of things.

You can clearly see Sengoku's reaction to Garp and how quickly he tried to hold him down. He saw the clear bloodlust and knew what Garp was going to do based on what Akainu had just done to Ace. Garp would also have no problem avoiding strikes from Akainu, considering he can use Observation Haki just fine unlike Whitebeard and isn't just a walking target.



> As for the Admirals age, that's not quite relevant? There's a difference between almost 60 and almost 80 and we've seen several people in the latter category who have shown signs of decline (Sengoku, Rayleigh, Whitebeard, Garp and possibly Chinjao) and none in the former category who didn't look as if they were their prime.



The point is more so saying that Garp's age has nothing to do with ability, unless it has been stated that he has gotten significantly weaker with age. Akainu and Kizaru are over 50 years old, with Kizaru even pushing 60 years old. However, you won't see anyone going around and saying they have declined in strength due to their age. You point out Garp's old age in your post, while there is no indication of Garp's age hindering his performance like Whitebeard/Rayleigh.



> I also accept your point that fights with strong people are rare. I'm not saying Garp's lack of history vs strong people in the recent past is proof that Garp is weakened, but rather that it is consistent with the claim that he has weakened, i.e. weak evidence. If there was any evidence that Garp was still as strong as before, this claim would mean nothing. (Also, it's only worth something in conjunction with other claims I made, as I said last post.)



How is it consistent? Garp is certainly a different case when compared to the likes of Whitebeard/Rayleigh.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Nov 27, 2017)

Tale said:


> I'm not downplaying the feat. I'm stating what literally happened. He punched Marco once and sent him flying. There's nothing impressive about that as a feat. What you see in it as _portrayal_ is _interpretation that needs to supported_. My interpretation is that Garp took the role of protecting the execution platform in the absence of the other Admirals and showed that he wasn't going to sit this one out. There's no reason to think he was appearing superior to everyone else just because he punched Marco. (The arguments about Garp's portrayal as I see it come at the end of this post, so keep reading.)



It's an impressive feat because he completely blitzed one of the fastest characters out there, sent him back to where he came from and made him not reconsider his plan. There's also the fact that Marco's head was bandaged at Whitebeard's funeral, so there's actually a possibility that Garp still damaged him in phoenix form. Kizaru obviously didn't do it, considering there would technically be bandages all over Marco's body, while Akainu didn't do it due to the fact that Marco was regenerating from burns against him. C3 have been portrayed rather closely, which is another reason why I don't think it could have been either of them. Based on feats, the only thing that remains would be Garp, and the entire interaction would point at that.



> Also, Whitebeard's acknowledgement of Garp was Whitebeard saying "Garp..." when Garp punched Marco and, in the following chapter after Garp makes his declaration, Whitebaerd says "Don't let his name put you off, fools. He's just an old man!", to which Akainu responds, "You're of the same generation [...]"
> _Both Whitebeard and Akainu take it for granted in their dialogue that Garp has been affected by aged._



Whitebeard referring to Garp as old is no different from Sengoku calling him the strongest man during the time of his ultimate failure. It's just a way to rally your troops with morale. Do you think Whitebeard telling fodder that Garp is just an old man would mean anything, anyway? What are they going to do against Garp when the strongest individual next to Whitebeard himself got easily put in his place? The answer is that none of them are doing anything. It was just a poor attempt of Whitebeard giving his allies reassuring support.



> I'm not sure why you're bringing up Kizaru vs Marco. By saying that Kizaru "only managed" to defeat Marco with a distraction, are you implying this is the only way Kizaru could have defeated Marco? A claim like that will require an argument, which you haven't provided. (In my view, Kizaru's superiority to Marco is obvious in Marineford and the business with Onigumo was simply a way to get rid of an annoying Devil Fruit user. Marco's special ability is that he can't be defeated quickly.)



That's not really an argument. If your argument consists of annoying fruit, that can honestly be said about anyone with a fruit ability. That annoying fruit is Marco's ability, while the fact that C3 happen to be Logia would contribute to their abilities. You can dislike the ability as much as you want, but you shouldn't let that change the objectivity of your argument for the worse. On top of that, Kizaru still didn't do it alone and merely assisted Onigumo in taking down Marco. Technically, Onigumo is the one who played the major role in that defeat along with the distraction.

I'm not saying that's the only way Kizaru could have defeated Marco, considering it's not even a given that Kizaru carries around seastone. Rather, I think Kizaru defeats Marco after a difficult fight, and nothing really suggests that it wouldn't be difficult.

Even though Kizaru did have interactions with Marco, none of them make him look particularly good when compared to Garp.



> As for Vista and Marco irritating Akainu with a combination attack, what is your point? That Marco and Vista can irritate Admirals with their combination attacks? I'm not sure what follows from this?



It was just emphasizing what actually happened when concerning the little C3 did against the commanders. Even then, they didn't accomplish very much without distractions.



> This is on Akainu's lack of awareness or being distracted, not any of Marco's special qualities.



Yeah. It's a special quality of Marco's physical strength and ability to negate damage from Akainu's attacks. If Akainu was capable of it, he would have knocked Marco aside, but that obviously wouldn't happen when he can't even push Jinbei out of his path.



> How does having one punch intended for Luffy being blocked by Marco and then being blindsided by Whitebeard translate into Akainu being "unable to get past Marco?" How do you know if Akainu had five more seconds he wouldn't have streamrolled past Marco?



You already answered your own question.



> Remember that when Akainu ended up behind enemy lines when trying to kill Luffy,it took multiple commanders to stop him, including Marco.



Akainu fought the commanders on his own for an unknown amount of time until he was backed up by reinforcements. Either way, the numerical advantage doesn't matter when we got the confirmation that Akainu is too strong for at least one of them by their own admission. When one of the commanders in Curiel was taken down, Akainu's reinforcements were already backing him up. The only ones that are actually significant against Akainu are Marco/Jozu/Vista, and Jozu wasn't actually present at the time.

This situation is no different from Sabo standing off Fujitora and the other fodder. They make no difference in such a fight, similar to how Marco/Vista were the only ones of relevance in the limited time that Akainu fought them alone.



> I agree that there was no point trying it, but I don't think that has anything to do with Garp being better than Admirals. It doesn't necessarily imply it or even support it.



If you completely disregard how the admirals performed against Marco when compared to Garp, you're probably right.



> Why not? You mean the fact that Sengoku should have let Garp assault and attempt to kill another marine because that marine did his job? Do you think he would let him kill the executioners because they were totally expendable if he got emotional about Ace's death? It was out of the question.



Akainu didn't execute Ace. He murdered Ace at Marineford, and there's a difference between the two of them. If Ace was actually executed in a proper way and not lured into his death by some complete asshole with no morals, Garp wouldn't have interfered.



> And regardless, there's zero reason to think Akainu wouldn't have obliterated Garp if Garp actually did try to kill him. You're assuming that just because a man (who was so angry that he was risking his reputation and what remained of his career over an act he himselfconsidered to be just) said he was gonna kill someone that he could have accomplished it.



So you think Akainu would have obliterated Garp when the guy can't even obliterate Jinbei without assistance from a fellow admiral in Aokiji? Even then, Jinbei was trying to protect Luffy at that time and not himself. Jinbei showed the ability to block Akainu's ability with his bare hands. His performance against Marco doesn't support it, either.

Garp showed physical speed and physical strength above Marco's own. There's no question that he can use CoA and CoO at the highest level, as well. He should at least use the two of them better than Whitebeard during his decline in strength, who showed absolutely no competence in CoO and still had CoA strong enough to take on Akainu. A man without fruit abilities that has the moniker relating to his fist will definitely be a physical monster with powerful CoA, and that would mean there's no way Akainu is obliterating him.



> Any evidence that this attitude wasn't an exceptional case that resulted from an insoluble stalemate and not the norm? Let me answer: Nope.
> Also, what are you even arguing? You're trying to  undermine the motivations I said Sengoku had for stopping Garp, but your way of undermining them would imply that (if Sengoku believed Garp could kill Akainu), he would have let him to do it, but the fact is he didn't. So either he didn't think he could do it or what you're trying to imply is completely incorrect.



It was basically a deathmatch. I'm not sure why Akainu didn't kill Aokiji, but it's probably due to the fact that he still thinks Aokiji is considered a good person. If Aokiji happened to be the winner, I wouldn't put it past him to kill Akainu. He was truly disgusted from his actions at Ohara and fought Akainu because he didn't want someone like that leading the marines.

What I'm saying is that Sengoku stopped Garp because of the image it would give citizens and marines that look up to Garp as a powerful figure. His reaction when he sees what Garp is about to do is more than any other indication. Garp's name and existence are essentially used to recruit young marines, while it also gives the citizens a powerful figure to reassure them that they're safe from pirates. If Garp killed another marine, it would make them question how safe they are and the morals of the person they look up to. If Akainu managed to kill Garp, what would everyone think of Garp? They would think he's weak and basically a fraud. The idea of Garp being weak is ridiculous, so I'm going with the former notion of Garp being able to kill Akainu.  It had nothing to do with maintaining strength in the marines, as they're generally disposable. Sengoku stopped him because it was the wrong thing to do as a marine and would look terrible for them as a whole.



> Again, there's still a difference between almost 60 and almost 80. _It's not just a numerical difference._ No one in the manga has ever said anything about people in the Admirals' generation weakening, but for almost every character in Garp's generation (excluding Garp at the moment), the same thing has been said. That lets one inductively argue that what applies to these 70-80 year olds also applies to Garp, since he belongs in that same category.



Age itself is largely overrated in this manga. You need to factor in that most of the strongest characters aren't your typical human, anyway. They perform physical feats beyond the level that normal humans can reach. Garp still remained an active marine and still used his abilities, even though he didn't run into powerful individuals very often just like the admirals. It doesn't mean any of them got significantly weaker. There are actually reasons to think Whitebeard is significantly weaker.



> However, we don't need that inductive argument, because it is absolutely not true that there are no indications that Garp's age has affected his performance.
> I have already pointed to the lack of results Sengoku and Garp had when fighting Blackbeard and others have been included in this thread already by others, like the fact that he was damaged by MF Luffy. For Garp, who has had so few appearances, that's almost everything he has done.



A lack of results against someone with the strongest fruits in existence and powerful individuals backing him up. They also went on to become one of the strongest crews and have plot armor as end-game opponents. The damage from Luffy is just a terrible point that often gets brought up, but Garp completely let his guard down and couldn't fight his family.



> We also have Whitebeard's words (after the acknowledgement you mentioned), Akainu's acceptance of Whitebeard's words, Sengoku in chapter 594 saying "What good are old soldiers?" about himself and Garp, and most significantly, Blackbeard avoiding confrontations with Akainu or Shanks but not giving a damn about and _actually threatening to kill both_ Garp and Sengoku _at the same time_. This was coming from a man who knew how to pick his fights.



I already addressed these points, but your statement about Teach is completely wrong. It wasn't just Garp and Sengoku at Marineford. Everyone else happened to be there, too. He threatened to sink all of Marineford with everyone on it, which kind of suggests that he doesn't care about what comes in his path. That statement essentially means the admirals, too. He only backed off when Shanks would show up, who Akainu similarly backed off from. As for the point after the war, Teach avoided a confrontation with Akainu because of how pointless it would be. They merely wanted a ship, while Akainu wouldn't negotiate with pirates and would burn that ship to the ground before giving it to them. There's no point in fighting him when there's nothing to gain, not to mention that Akainu didn't even come alone.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## TheOnlyOne1 (Dec 2, 2017)

Why are there so many immature little bitches in this thread? "She gets fisted" "Lol She gets fisted". Bitch, your mom gets fisted.

Anyways, there's no way in hell MF Garp is taking on any Yonkou's and beating them. And I doubt "She's the weakest" Yonkou. I don't think it's possible to say any of the Yonkou's are the weakest because that distinction would be too small. Like Akainu beat Aokiji but barely matters. The fight was near equals.

As for Prime Garp, we don't know anything about him. But I doubt he is Rogers equal. WB was already hyped to be Rogers equal. There's no need for a third wheel in that relationship. And Garp was never implied, romanticized, or hyped to be Rogers equal. Not like WB was. And as the poster Tale said, I doubt Roger and WB were just too powerful for the other Yonkous, Admiral and other top tiers. They were definitely stronger but not levels apart. So the Prime Garp vs Prime Big Mom fight would be an extremely difficult one. And even if Garp has the edge and wins it would still be an extremely difficult fight.


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