# The 4 Hokage vs. Madara & Obito



## Rocky (Apr 11, 2013)

In light of the upcoming fight, let's use some imagination. Say The alliance isn't there, and it's only The 4 Edo against our final villains. The Juubi is restricted. I assume Madara & Obito actually know how to use to use their Rinnegan, but they just haven't shown us yet. In this thread, they can each use every ability the Dojustu has to offer. The two sides start 50m apart.

Scenario 2: Madara & Obito have control of the Juubi, but if they are separated from it, it disappears. All other conditions the same.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Apr 11, 2013)

the 4 hokages obviously win both scenarios.


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## joshhookway (Apr 11, 2013)

10,000 Hands, Sage Mode Water Jutsu overwhelm Madara.

Minato already defeated obito.


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## Big Mom (Apr 11, 2013)

Theoretically, the Hokage should be able to overcome them. Hashirama has shown to be near impossible to kill, with apparent regeneration that makes Tsunade's look inferior. He has shown the ability to access Sage Mode and use techniques on a whole different level. Regardless of how much more powerful Madara has gotten thanks to the Rinnegan, it will still be not walk in the park defeating Hashirama. 

Tobirama is one of the greatest sensors in the manga, so he would be very hard to kill thanks to that ability. In addition to his sensing, he also has Harashin, which further aids in his ability to not be hit. He is also the single greatest Suiton user in the manga, by hype, so he should be able to overpower the Uchiha's Katons. 

Hiruzen has access to a varitey of techniques, including a powerful summoning. Although we haven't seen enough in his old age to warrent him being able to hold his own against either of the two, he is still powerful, though has stamina issues (though it isn't very fair that he is the only one handicapped and out of their prime in this match). 

Minato has, in the manga, defeated Obito once already. Adding in the Rinnegan won't change that, since if he cannot use Kamui before being hit by Minato, he cannot use Preta's Absorption or Shinra Tensei before being hit. 

Not only would they have the numbers advantage, but they are also an incredible combination of Shinobi.


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## Waltz (Apr 11, 2013)

Madara is able to to make 25 mokuton clones, all wielding the rinnegan and EMS not to mention respective abilities for each doujutsu. Based on Mokuton's composition Pretapath will render it useless on contact and this goes for each clone. Madara has already stated that his EMS is able to see throuhgh hashirama's mokuton bunshin and also has the abilitiy to anticipate attacks. Given that he has his edo abilities, he is able to use all the jutsu he copied from hashirama. Added to this, the rinnegan is a greater potential threat in comparison with the kyuubi, which hashirama himself stated was overwhelming. Hokage's 2-4, Orochimaru and Taka are all inferior to EMS Madara much less his Edo state that is maxed beyond his prime. Obito and Madara has the option of re-connecting to the Juubi (via mokuton) at will. Obito's kamui which has already been deemed superior to both Minato's and Tobirama's Space-time ninjutsu will be anticipated as Obito is now aware of Minato's fighting style. They're all edo's and can't die or be depleted chakra wise, which could provide a problem but nothing critical.


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## IchLiebe (Apr 12, 2013)

Minato would solo



Hashirama would solo

Tobirama and Hiruzen would win/thread


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## blk (Apr 12, 2013)

Someone tells me how the Hokages are going to beat an Obito that can use Kamui in combination with Shinra Tensei and Preta Path.

Or a Madara that can create 25 clones all able to use the Rinnegan powers (25 Shinra Tensei users....).

I'm not even sure if the Hokages will be able to _touch_ any of their opponents before getting slaughtered.

Madara and Obito stomp in both scenarios, potentially without even a scratch.




EmsXSusanoXUltimateSasuke said:


> the 4 hokages obviously win both scenarios.



Please, elaborate further on how they do so.


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## Kai (Apr 12, 2013)

With the complete deck of Rin'negan powers it makes the Uchihas untouchable. Both of them can use Shinra Tensei, both of them can use Preta Path, one of them can use Preta Path while the other uses Shinra Tensei, or Tobi can use Kamui on both himself and Madara and warp to the hokages in close range and both use terrain morphing ST collectively.

Plus, infinite Rinne Tensei loop?



joshhookway said:


> 10,000 Hands, Sage Mode Water Jutsu overwhelm Madara.
> 
> Minato already defeated obito.


You obviously didn't read the OP.


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## KyuubiFan (Apr 13, 2013)

I can't really see how would the 4 lolkages deal with continuous Shinra Tensei barrage from 25 Moku Bunshins.


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## Hazuki (Apr 13, 2013)

joshhookway said:


> Minato already defeated obito.



oh ? so when you beat a 14 years old kid , that mean you can also beat a 30 years old adult rinnegan user ?

very clever.....


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## richard lewis (Apr 13, 2013)

Hazuki said:


> oh ? so when you beat a 14 years old kid , that mean you can also beat a 30 years old adult rinnegan user ?
> 
> very clever.....



age doesn't mean much in this manga, naruto is only 16 and he's one of the strongest ninja in history.


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## Trojan (Apr 13, 2013)

The Hokages win obviously. 

Hashi already defeated Madara.
Minato Already wiped the floor with Obito.  

Tobirama & Hiruzen are not needed. 

By the way, do they (Madara and the cry baby) have sealing jutsu to seal the Hokages
if they have ever the chance to do so?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 13, 2013)

Kai said:


> With the complete deck of Rin'negan powers it makes the Uchihas untouchable. Both of them can use Shinra Tensei, both of them can use Preta Path, one of them can use Preta Path while the other uses Shinra Tensei, or Tobi can use Kamui on both himself and Madara and warp to the hokages in close range and both use terrain morphing ST collectively.
> 
> Plus, infinite Rinne Tensei loop?
> 
> ...



This. 

On top of that Obito can spam Shinra Tensei hardcore. Shinra Tensei; intangible for 5 seconds; then Shinra Tensei again.

The potential combinations these two can do are crazy e.g. those two alongside a certain number of Moku Bunshins all using Shinra Tensei to create a broken offence.


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## blk (Apr 13, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> The Hokages win obviously.
> 
> Hashi already defeated Madara.
> Minato Already wiped the floor with Obito.
> ...



Read the stipulations, the Uchiha have full control over the Rinnegan in this battle.


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## Trojan (Apr 13, 2013)

blk said:


> Read the stipulations, the Uchiha have full control over the Rinnegan in this battle.



So? 
If they uses preta path, I believe the senjutsu chakra in Hashi's wood will be more than
enough to turn them into stones. 

CT, Minato can use his S/T barrier to send it to anywhere. or even FTG 
the same with ST. it's not like if they will use it forever, lol 

if they use Izanagi they will lose one of theirs' eyes. Which mean
for Obito no Kamui and that's mean he will lose pretty much any chance. 
for Madara no Sausanoo which also mean he will lose any chance. 

The other abilities for the Rinngan are not that important IMO.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 13, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> So?
> If they uses preta path, I believe the senjutsu chakra in Hashi's wood will be more than
> enough to turn them into stones.



Only if they absorb Sage Mode directly while Hashirama forms it. 


> CT, Minato can use his S/T barrier to send it to anywhere. or even FTG
> the same with ST. it's not like if they will use it forever, lol



How is he going to do that? CT: nothing is coming towards him, so his barrier won't be effective. ST: no ocular power or chakra sensor has ever been able to anticipate ST; Minato will be no different.


> if they use Izanagi they will lose one of theirs' eyes. Which mean
> for Obito no Kamui and that's mean he will lose pretty much any chance.
> for Madara no Sausanoo which also mean he will lose any chance.



Why would Madara lose Susanoo? Itachi used Susanoo with both his eyes gone.


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## blk (Apr 13, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> So?
> If they uses preta path, I believe the senjutsu chakra in Hashi's wood will be more than
> enough to turn them into stones.
> 
> ...



Kamui added to Shinra Tensei makes Obito literally untouchable, since he can keep the former ability active for cover the 5 seconds cooldown.

Madara can make 25 Mokuton clones, all of which will be able to use Shinra Tensei: there is no way that the Hokages can get past 25 Shinra Tensei users.
When the Hokages attack, one clone can simply use the jutsu repelling the assault and damaging at the same time the Hokages, while the others _24_ can cover that one and themselves in the while of the 5 seconds cooldown of the former.

In other words, Obito and Madara will be literally unassailable _just_ with addition of Shinra Tensei.
Add to it Preta Path (an another broken defense that counters the 99% of Hokages abilities) and Asura Path (image 25 Asura users bombarding the Hokages with literally _hundreds_ of missiles) on top of Perfect Susano'o, Meteors, various Mokuton spam, ecc..... and it becomes clear that the Hokages have no chances of winning this battle.


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## Trojan (Apr 13, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Only if they absorb Sage Mode directly while Hashirama forms it.
> 
> 
> How is he going to do that? CT: nothing is coming towards him, so his barrier won't be effective. ST: no ocular power or chakra sensor has ever been able to anticipate ST; Minato will be no different.
> ...



- Who said that's the only way? Fukasaku stated if the chakra was too much the person who
has it will be a stone/statue. Look how huge are Hashi's jutsus. 

- Obviously by opining the barrier. Does it need to come to him in order to use it? 
and even if we go with what you said, he can teleport to any place via FTG. Not such
a big deal. 

- Even though what you said is not a proof, but still they are edo here, so even if it hut them,
that has no effect at all. @.@ 

- Because Susanoo need BOTH eyes, Itachi was not completely blind. 
You can re-watch the Kage arc, Sasuke seed that Susanoo need the 2 eyes and when
he almost lost his vision against Kakashi, his susanoo gone. Madara is no exception.


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## Trojan (Apr 13, 2013)

blk said:


> Kamui added to Shinra Tensei makes Obito literally untouchable, since he can keep the former ability active for cover the 5 seconds cooldown.
> 
> Madara can make 25 Mokuton clones, all of which will be able to use Shinra Tensei: there is no way that the Hokages can get past 25 Shinra Tensei users.
> When the Hokages attack, one clone can simply use the jutsu repelling the assault and damaging at the same time the Hokages, while the others _24_ can cover that one and themselves in the while of the 5 seconds cooldown of the former.
> ...



1- How fast he can do that? Because Minato strikes him twice and he was not able to use
Kamui at that time. 

2- He uses 25 and the Gokage defeated them, and let's say that, Hashi can also use this
jutsu, I can see there is no way Madara can stand against 25 Buddha! 

Preta path will make them lose faster Lol 
I already explained if they use it they will turn into stones.  

any way. I said my opinion, and we will see how strong the Hokages are. 
they will add more feat and hype to them, we already know that they are the strongest EDO.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 13, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> - Who said that's the only way? Fukasaku stated if the chakra was too much the person who
> has it will be a stone/statue. Look how huge are Hashi's jutsus.



Fukasaku said that after Pain attempted to absorb Naruto's chakra _while_ he was entering Sage Mode. He managed to absorb SM, Senjutsu and jutsu of all sizes.



> - Obviously by opining the barrier. Does it need to come to him in order to use it?
> and even if we go with what you said, he can teleport to any place via FTG. Not such
> a big deal.



Assuming that piece of land isn't being drawn to CT. Throwing kunai while CT is being used won't help either.



> - Even though what you said is not a proof, but still they are edo here, so even if it hut them,
> that has no effect at all. @.@



Fair point, but ST in this case would be used for defensive purposes.



> - Because Susanoo need BOTH eyes, Itachi was not completely blind.
> You can re-watch the Kage arc, Sasuke seed that Susanoo need the 2 eyes and when
> he almost lost his vision against Kakashi, his susanoo gone. Madara is no exception.



He was totally blind when he used Susanoo on Sasuke. Sasuke said Sasuke awakens when you can use both eye powers. Sasuke, not sure how to explain him but being weakened must've had something to do with it.


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## blk (Apr 13, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> 1- How fast he can do that? Because Minato strikes him twice and he was not able to use
> Kamui at that time.



So fast that no one will even notice it.
Why? Because both jutsu are activated via thought and unless Obito is touching his enemy, he won't know that the Uchiha shut off the intangibility and used Shinra Tensei.

Also, Minato needs to be very near to Obito in order to strike him, i'm not sure how he can decrease the distance while there is a Madara in the way.



> 2- He uses 25 and the Gokage defeated them, and let's say that, Hashi can also use this
> jutsu, I can see there is no way Madara can stand against 25 Buddha!



Against the Gokage, the clones didn't used Shinra Tensei.

Hashirama cannot create 25 Buddha and the Shinra Tensei and Asura spam counter them, so it's not really a problem even if he can create so much statues.



> Preta path will make them lose faster Lol
> I already explained if they use it they will turn into stones.



What makes someone to turn into stone is the pure natural energy, not the SM chakra that was already balanced by the user.

Infact, Preta Path absorbed all of Naruto's jutsu without any problem, he turned into stone only when he was absorbing the natural energy that Naruto was accumulating.


Now, kindly address how the Hokages get past the Shinra Tensei, missiles and laser barrage.


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## Punished Pathos (Apr 13, 2013)

Obito and Madara can use all of the Rinnegan powers in Manga.
If you guys would reread Naruto and Bee VS the Edo Jinchuriki.
Guy and Kakashi states that Obito wouldn't let the Jinchuriki use Rinnegan jutsus because Kakashi and Guy have counters to them. 
Obito confirmed it.


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## Bonly Jr. (Apr 13, 2013)

Senju bros crap on Madara

Minato dumps on Obito, again. 

Hiruzen is the cheerleader knocking Madara's head in from a distance with M.K Enma


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 13, 2013)

Pathos Grim said:


> Obito and Madara can use all of the Rinnegan powers in Manga.
> If you guys would reread Naruto and Bee VS the Edo Jinchuriki.
> Guy and Kakashi states that Obito wouldn't let the Jinchuriki use Rinnegan jutsus because Kakashi and Guy have counters to them.
> Obito confirmed it.



The counters to the powers Pain used on them:
- God Realm's 5 second interim
- Taijutsu on Hungry Ghost
- Defeat Animal Realm to remove the summons
- Take out Hell Realm to prevent rivials
- Try to smash Demon Realm and Human Realm

Note these are counters to *Pain*. 

Not as easy when they're all condensed to a single body. Then there's Madara and Obito's individual abilities on top of all that.

In short: why don't you think Madara and Obito will find ways to counteract these strategies? Especially when it is probable the Rinnegan jutsu will be used at the most efficient times given that it is very hard to push Obito/Madara to use anything beyond their arsenal.


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## IchLiebe (Apr 14, 2013)

Madara nor Obito have ever shown to use ST, and Obito hasn't used any Rinnegan techs bar the controlling paths.

Whats stopping Hashirama from creating 100 mokuton clones.


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## blk (Apr 14, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Madara nor Obito have ever shown to use ST, and Obito hasn't used any Rinnegan techs bar the controlling paths.
> 
> Whats stopping Hashirama from creating 100 mokuton clones.



In this thread, Madara and Obito can use all the powers of the Rinnegan.

Read the OP before posting.


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## Joakim3 (Apr 14, 2013)

So Madara & Obito have full access to Rin'negan jutsu........ on top of Datara?

Yeah this is a spite thread, one CST + Juubidama later and all of team Hokage has been vaporized and soul ripped while reforming


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## αce (Apr 14, 2013)

> Madara nor Obito have ever shown to use ST, and Obito hasn't used any Rinnegan techs bar the controlling paths.
> 
> Whats stopping Hashirama from creating 100 mokuton clones.



In other words, you didn't read the thread. Stop posting.


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## Kagekami (Apr 14, 2013)

Give me a week,....maybe three, four days, and I'll have an answer for you.

I promise.


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## ImSerious (Apr 14, 2013)

Minato > Obito = canon

Hashirama > Madara = canon


wut is this?


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## blk (Apr 14, 2013)

ImSerious said:


> Minato > Obito = canon
> 
> Hashirama > Madara = canon
> 
> ...



In this scenario, Madara and Obito have both full mastery of the Rinnegan, they are not the versions that those Hokages did beat already.


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## Bonly (Apr 14, 2013)

I'd go with Madara and Obito. Giving them all of the Rinnegan techs will ensure there win more times then not. They wouldn't be likely hit Obito when he can use ST and then Kamui during the five seconds interval and add in how Minato and Tobi could be the only one's fast enough even hit Obito(which isn't likely to happen anymore), I really fail to see how the Hokages can pull out the win.


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## Fiiction (Jan 19, 2014)

Who's sealing who?


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 19, 2014)

Wait is this current Madara or Edo Madara? If its current he solos if its Edo then they loose easily in the first scenario and win in the second with the Jubi.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 19, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Madara nor Obito have ever shown to use ST, and Obito hasn't used any Rinnegan techs bar the controlling paths.
> 
> Whats stopping Hashirama from creating 100 mokuton clones.



Madara taught Obito the Six Paths jutsu.

Madara could counter and create the same amount of clones?


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## Turrin (Jan 19, 2014)

Obito and Madara probably loose. Minato can Kyuubi chakra share improving the abilities of the other Hokage drastically. Edo Madara even w/ the other Rinnegan jutsu probably isn't beating KN1 Hashirama + KN1 Tobirama. Likewise Tobi probably isn't beating BM Minato and KN1 Hiruzen


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## Fiiction (Jan 19, 2014)

Elia said:


> - Who said that's the only way? Fukasaku stated if the chakra was too much the person who
> has it will be a stone/statue. Look how huge are Hashi's jutsus.
> 
> I thought preta path absorbed senjutsu chakra?
> ...



I am so late. But you are ABSOLUTELY WRONG ! Itachi was blind, but due to his mastery of susanoo, his was still activated. Sasuke had just activated his susanoo in the same day, it deactivated due to the lack of his mastery over susanoo. Madara didn't have ANY eyes, but was still able to use susanoo. My guess on how susanoo works is that once you unlock both eye techniques and master susanoo to a certain level, it becomes part of your chakra. 

P.s. I'm bored af just posting on old threads lol.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 19, 2014)

Obito can literally just spam Shinra Tensei, he just has to use Kamui whilst the cool down period occurs. Madara could always defend himself with his own ST.


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## ARGUS (Jan 19, 2014)

The hokages win the first scenario 
hashirama is superior to edo madara,, and him having rinnegan techniques would not help, when hes fighting amongst the scale of SS & CK,, moreover hashis wood dragons were on par with PS 
hashirama defeats edo madara 

As for obito,,, he can now deflect the kunai away by ST (since u gave him Peins feats),,,, but still that wont do,, since hes fighting against 2 FTG users,,, which is the best counter to kamui 
Minato & tobirama defeat obito comfortably 

Hokages win scenario 1 

Scenario 2: considering they have the juubi now,,, and on top of that rinnegan techniques 
i believe the madara and obito win this mid diff at best since the juubi can nuke the hokages


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