# Kaguya vs Mewtwo



## Cave Jansen (Aug 8, 2014)

Curious about this one.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 8, 2014)

She's doesn't seem to have much of a mind to rape 

That being said Mewtwo is completely outmatched. Contintent+ and 4 digit MHS vs 3 digit island+


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## Cave Jansen (Aug 8, 2014)

Alright then, i wasn't aware there was such a big difference considering Rayquaza's being continent+ too.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 8, 2014)

Cave Jansen said:


> Alright then, i wasn't aware there was such a big difference considering Rayquaza's being continent+ too.



Rayquaza is country+, with a possibility of being continent level actually


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## Iwandesu (Aug 9, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Rayquaza is country+, with a possibility of being continent level actually


Pretty much.
Composite Mewtwo should scalle oof country level regis though.
Mega mewtwo has the same potential continent scalling.


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## Lurko (Aug 9, 2014)

Kaguya would take this.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 9, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Pretty much.
> Composite Mewtwo should scalle oof country level regis though.
> Mega mewtwo has the same potential continent scalling.



Mega Mewtwo has no reason to be continent level. The country level thing is shaky as scaling but i'd agree with it if more Pokemon got the same scaling, otherwise it's the same shit as Gamefreak with their blatant favoritism (it and Charizard got two Megas )


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## Iwandesu (Aug 9, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Mega Mewtwo has no reason to be continent level. The country level thing is shaky as scaling but i'd agree with it if more Pokemon got the same scaling, otherwise it's the same shit as Gamefreak with their blatant favoritism (it and Charizard got two Megas )


.
Continent level comes through unova duo scalling.(which is really iffy)
Country should be Just fine as mewtwo is portrayed to be on par with rayquaza (after all eh is >team rocket which did this:


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 9, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> .
> Continent level comes through unova duo scalling.(which is really iffy)
> Country should be Just fine as mewtwo is portrayed to be on par with rayquaza (after all eh is >team rocket which did this:



I don't recall Mewtwo ever being portrayed to be on any of the weather trio's level as they're all considered planetary threats due to their nature. The only thing I recall it being portrayed as being equal to is Deoxys who Rayquaza shat on in movie 7. Mewtwo is at best at or below Ho-oh/Lugia level

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trtX8epdt1k[/youtube]


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## Totally not a cat (Aug 9, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> .
> Continent level comes through unova duo scalling.(which is really iffy)
> Country should be Just fine as mewtwo is portrayed to be on par with rayquaza (after all eh is >team rocket which did this:


Anime version of Rayquaza isn't in the country level range, and there's no way to draw a consistent line between the Tao trio and Rayquaza other than both of them being canonically captured by an evil organization and BST, but neither of those mean a thing.

It's hard to connect Mewtwo and the Regis in the manga because they were weakened down after the Hoenn weather incident, and the Regis aren't up there in other continuities where Mewtwo shown superior.

Funnily enough, both Mewtwo and Rayquaza have tangoed with Deoxys, but such fights happened in different continuities so you can't connect that either.

The continent level speculation for Rayquaza comes from the fact that the _shockwaves_ of Kyogre and Groudon's clash in the manga are basically only half of the minimum baseline for continent level. Both were trading blows of this magnitude for 20 days straight and showed no signal of tire or injury afterwards; whereas Rayquaza is superior to both of them. But in the end that's still an A>B>C logic that gets us nowhere out of speculation and fan fiction.


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## Vicotex (Aug 9, 2014)

Kaguya is moon level by scalling


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## TobiSan (Aug 9, 2014)

Vicotex said:


> Kaguya is moon level by scalling



No.


Why can't mewtwo just Mind-Rape?


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## Red Angel (Aug 9, 2014)

Because she's too fast and powerful for Mewtwo to mindfuck


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## Xiammes (Aug 9, 2014)

power has nothing to do with mindfuck, being fast is a problem, but only if she is 10x faster then him.


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## Red Angel (Aug 9, 2014)

I mean too powerful to the point where mindfuck is less of a likelyhood than being one shotted


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 9, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> power has nothing to do with mindfuck, being fast is a problem, but only if she is 10x faster then him.



I'm pretty sure he's around mach 300 or so and she's mach 4000. There's also the whole dimension thing as well.


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## Totally not a cat (Aug 9, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> I'm pretty sure he's around mach 300 or so and she's mach 4000. There's also the whole dimension thing as well.


Let there be known the magic of _Trick Room_ 

*Spoiler*: __ 



But seriously this is horribly one-sided


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 9, 2014)

Totally not a cat said:


> Let there be known the magic of _Trick Room_
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Trick Room would be a fun option for the OBD


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## Xiammes (Aug 9, 2014)

I already did a Machop low kick in trick vs TTGL.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 9, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> I already did a Machop low kick in trick vs TTGL.



I'm sure that put TTGL fans in their place


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## Totally not a cat (Aug 9, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> I already did a Machop low kick in trick vs TTGL.


That's just golden


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## Foxve (Aug 9, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> I don't recall Mewtwo ever being portrayed to be on any of the weather trio's level as they're all considered planetary threats due to their nature. The only thing I recall it being portrayed as being equal to is Deoxys who Rayquaza shat on in movie 7. Mewtwo is at best at or below Ho-oh/Lugia level
> 
> [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trtX8epdt1k[/youtube]



Lol what? That was a surprise attack. When Deoxys got pissed off and decided to get serious, it was bitchslapping Rayquaza all over the city till Deoxy's friend saved it's life.


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## Totally not a cat (Aug 9, 2014)

Deoxys's ludicrous speed was the only reason he lasted that long in combat, the movie would have been so much shorter if Deoxys wasn't such an annoying bastard.


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## Foxve (Aug 9, 2014)

How was Deoxys annoying?


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## Totally not a cat (Aug 9, 2014)

Too fast in contrast with his other stats and regenerates unless you get a clean shot on it's chest stone. Having psychic hax is a plus.


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## TobiSan (Aug 9, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> I'm pretty sure he's around mach 300 or so and she's mach 4000. There's also the whole dimension thing as well.




Show me her being "Moon level" aka her destroying something that is even relevant to the moon.
Also the feats for Mach 4000


Until I get my scans I am going with instant mindrape.


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## Regicide (Aug 9, 2014)

If she can teleport and bypass the standard distance, then I don't see what Mewtwo can do here.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 9, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> Show me her being "Moon level" aka her destroying something that is even relevant to the moon.
> Also the feats for Mach 4000
> 
> 
> Until I get my scans I am going with instant mindrape.



She's superior to Hagoromo who created the moon and shoved it into orbit

She gets the scaling from V2 Juubi's Bijuudama

Additionally Mewtwo isn't mindraping most characters that are stronger than it.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Aug 9, 2014)

Hagoromo didn't create the moon. Zetsu said the seal the bothers used on Kaguya converted her into a giant CT.


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## Foxve (Aug 9, 2014)

Totally not a cat said:


> Too fast in contrast with his other stats and regenerates unless you get a clean shot on it's chest stone. Having psychic hax is a plus.



His speed wasn't his only claim to fame. As I said, deoxys was smacking Rayquaza around the city and almost "killed" it with a psycho boost after hitting the dragon with a barrage of night shades.......


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## LazyWaka (Aug 9, 2014)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Hagoromo didn't create the moon. Zetsu said the seal the bothers used on Kaguya converted her into a giant CT.



CT is a completely different ability than what they initially sealed her with (seeing as the seal that Naruto and Sasuke are trying to use have fuck all to do with Chibaku Tensei and it's the same one RS was referring to when initially sealing her.)


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Aug 9, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> CT is a completely different ability than what they initially sealed her with (seeing as the seal that Naruto and Sasuke are trying to use have fuck all to do with Chibaku Tensei and it's the same one RS was referring to when initially sealing her.)



No, Zetsu said explicitly the seal they hit her with, the exact one Sasuke and Naruto are trying to use, turned the Juubi into the core of CT and that's how it became the moon.




> Mother was sealed by her own child (/ren) in the past.
> Black zetsu: i hear that was a very very strong seal.
> Black zetsu: a jutsu that turns 10b into a core of chibakutensei ...
> by that 10b became the moon


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## Iwandesu (Aug 9, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> power has nothing to do with mindfuck, being fast is a problem, but only if she is 10x faster then him.


Kaguya will Just teleport him to another dimension before mewtwo proccedes the though of mindraping her. 
Her teleport ignores range. It can "blitz" pretty much anyone with mach 4000 or less and a pletoria of characters which can't blitz her but are somewhat faster nonetheless.



TobiSan said:


> Show me her being "Moon level" aka her destroying something that is even relevant to the moon.
> Also the feats for Mach 4000
> Until I get my scans I am going with instant mindrape.


Powerscalling. 
You mean the stated and known fact that she was shoved into space by CT after being sealed in its core ? 
mach 4k comes from juubi bjd crossing the continent in few secs, Juubi jin are faster than juubi. And Current nardo/sauce blitzed the hell out juudara.


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## Totally not a cat (Aug 9, 2014)

Foxve said:


> His speed wasn't his only claim to fame. As I said, deoxys was smacking Rayquaza around the city and almost "killed" it with a psycho boost after hitting the dragon with a barrage of night shades.......


Rayquaza's attacks were munching out part's of Deoxys body whenever they landed, and it hit Rayquaza with it's strongest technique multiple times and it didn't as much as a damage Rayquaza's skin. Eventually all that damage catched up to Rayquaza since he lacked a recovery technique, but after a breath he was good to go all over again.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Aug 9, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> You mean the stated and known fact that she was shoved into space by CT after being sealed in its core ?



1) Once again it was the seal Hagoromo and Hamura hit her with that turned her into the CT core
2) We should wait to see Naruto and Sasuke use the seal on her to see how it got into space

The Zetsu troll story on the tablet was been proven to be highly unreliable


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## LazyWaka (Aug 9, 2014)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> No, Zetsu said explicitly the seal they hit her with, the exact one Sasuke and Naruto are trying to use, turned the Juubi into the core of CT and that's how it became the moon.



Except that would mean that RS never became the Juubi Jin, even though we know for a fact that he did.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Aug 9, 2014)

Exactly what reason does Zetsu have to be lying there as opposed the the admitted trolling of the tablet? Things clearly didn't happen the way we were told. Call it a retcon if you want but this is the new version. How exactly he got the Juubi's chakra is unknown at this juncture so wait and fucking see.


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## LazyWaka (Aug 9, 2014)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Exactly what reason does Zetsu have to be lying there as opposed the the admitted trolling of the tablet? Things clearly didn't happen the way we were told. Call it a retcon if you want but this is the new version. How exactly he got the Juubi's chakra is unknown at this juncture so wait and fucking see.



Except that the nine tails was there during that and he knows for a fact that RS was the Juubi jin. We saw an old man RS who STILL had the Gedou statue inside of him meaning that the sealing RS and his brother used WASN'T CT. Seriously, we know for a fact that RS and his brother sealed the Juubi inside of himself, RS himself told us that and he has a shit ton less reason to lie about that than Black Zetsu. The seal that Naruto and Sasuke are going to ues is blatantly the one that RS and his brother used to seal up the Juubi the first time, NOT the one that created CT.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Aug 9, 2014)

We don't know anything right now because Kishi keeps changing the story.


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## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 9, 2014)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Zetsu said the seal the bothers used on Kaguya converted her into a giant CT.


Two seals have been applied to Jubi: one to seal into Hagoromo and one to seal into the moon. Because of Japanese ambiguity concerning plurality, Zetsu could be talking about the second as opposed to the first.


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## TobiSan (Aug 10, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> She's superior to Hagoromo who created the moon and shoved it into orbit
> 
> She gets the scaling from V2 Juubi's Bijuudama
> 
> Additionally Mewtwo isn't mindraping most characters that are stronger than it.



Moon level isn't creating a moon, show me she can do destruction enough to destroy the moon, then she is moon level. Still waiting for the scans.

Strength has nothing to do with mind-rape.


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## Adamant soul (Aug 10, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> Moon level isn't creating a moon, show me she can do destruction enough to destroy the moon, then she is moon level. Still waiting for the scans.
> 
> Strength has nothing to do with mind-rape.



It takes just as much, if not more energy to create something than to destroy it. So yes, she is very much moon level.

Mind-rape requires him to be able to think, Kaguya wont give him the chance because she's so much faster than he is.


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## Iwandesu (Aug 10, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> Moon level isn't creating a moon, show me she can do destruction enough to destroy the moon, then she is moon level. Still waiting for the scans.
> 
> Strength has nothing to do with mind-rape.


To create something without a system to help you demands even more energy than to fragment it.
she will teleport him before he can mindrape her , strenght indeed doesn't matter.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 10, 2014)

Unless Mewtwo mindrapes her then he's getting stomped.


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## Nikushimi (Aug 10, 2014)

Kaguya blitzes Mewtwo and dimension-dumps it or just snaps its neck.



MusubiKazesaru said:


> Mewtwo is at best at or below Ho-oh/Lugia level



Mewtwo would fucking destroy Ho-Oh and Lugia, along with...the vast majority of the other Ubers.

Admittedly, I'm totally out of the loop on how Mega Evolution has changed the game, but I know Mewtwo got a couple of those too.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 10, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Mewtwo would fucking destroy Ho-Oh and Lugia, along with...the vast majority of the other Ubers.
> 
> Admittedly, I'm totally out of the loop on how Mega Evolution has changed the game, but I know Mewtwo got a couple of those too.



I don't recall any version of Mewtwo doing anything more impressive than them. Lugia and Ho-oh do lack showings in comparison but Mewtwo actually just scales to Lugia's storms in the games. The best I recall was being on par with Deoxys in the manga. It gets shat on by the Creation Trio, Arceous, the Eon duo, the X/Y duo, the fusions, the weather trio, the Regis, the lake trio and so on. So much for a raping most of them. .

Mewtwo is overrated both by fans and by the creators. He got *two* Mega Evolutions due to favoritism despite it not making sense that he gets even one considering that he's a clone and a legendary Pokemon, and unique and has never been owned outside of Red/Blaine (and he doesn't mega evolve in that iteration), it's just something that doesn't make sense considering what Mega Evolution is (it has to do with bonds and crap). It's also not clear what kind of boost Mega Evolutions really get beyond looking more impressive in ways that don't give any decent feats. I like Mewtwo, but he's up there with Charizard and Pikachu in terms of favoritism.


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## TobiSan (Aug 11, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> To create something without a system to help you demands even more energy than to fragment it.
> she will teleport him before he can mindrape her , strenght indeed doesn't matter.



Her teleportions are kinda slow, because she needs to make portals and what not IIRC. Creating something still has no merits on battle feats. What is she gonna do? Create a fucking moon on Mewtwo?


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## Red Angel (Aug 11, 2014)

She can generate that much energy she can use it, meaning she'll just blast Mewtwo away

And the "can't do it combat" excuse pretty much died out as a copout excuse years ago and is no longer accepted here


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 11, 2014)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Hagoromo didn't create the moon. Zetsu said the seal the bothers used on Kaguya converted her into a giant CT.



scans of this?

edit: my bad didn't read the rest of the thread


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## ThanatoSeraph (Aug 11, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> Her teleportions are kinda slow, because she needs to make portals and what not IIRC. Creating something still has no merits on battle feats. What is she gonna do? Create a fucking moon on Mewtwo?



Don't know a thing about Kaguya, but basically, the logic goes: she has access to enough energy to create a thing. What else does the character use that uses energy? Generally, it is attacks borne from charkra/ki/magic/etc. Thus, the character can place as much energy in their attacks as they can in the creation feat.


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## TobiSan (Aug 11, 2014)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> Don't know a thing about Kaguya, but basically, the logic goes: she has access to enough energy to create a thing. What else does the character use that uses energy? Generally, it is attacks borne from charkra/ki/magic/etc. Thus, the character can place as much energy in their attacks as they can in the creation feat.



That's a speculation, not a feat. 

Franklin Richard as a child made a pocket universe, doesn't mean he went around blasting small universe busters. Creating a pocket universe is infinitely above creating a moon in terms of power. The power of creation does not equal the power of destruction.




Michael Demiguros(The angel of creation) is the creator of all things in DC multiverse, in terms of battle power he probably isn't even top 10 with out his brother Lucifer(the angel of Destruction).
Same goes about Golden Superman(SPOM) who IIRC created his own universe, doesn't mean he is universe buster since he lacks feats to put him on that level.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Aug 11, 2014)

Franklin could totally go around  blasting small universe busters.

He's got the feats for it. Even ignoring creation feats, he's fought Celestials.

And yes, creating a universe is infinitely above creating a moon.

Funnily enough, Franklin is also infinitely above Kaguya.


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## TobiSan (Aug 11, 2014)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> Franklin could totally go around  blasting small universe busters.
> 
> He's got the feats for it. Even ignoring creation feats, he's fought Celestials.
> 
> ...



Yes he fought Celestials and made Galactus is herald as a an Adult, not as a child. As an Adult he was way above an universe buster with his Reality Warping.

Also if we go via flawed power scaling, I would say that creating a fucking moon in real life terms would destroy the entire Narutoverse population since the energy to create a moon would be stronger than any number of nukes we can imagine.



Skarbrand said:


> She can generate that much energy she can use it, meaning she'll just blast Mewtwo away
> 
> And the "can't do it combat" excuse pretty much died out as a copout excuse years ago and is no longer accepted here



The energy to create a moon would kill everyone including herself.


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## AgentAAA (Aug 11, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> Yes he fought Celestials and made Galactus is herald as a an Adult, not as a child. As an Adult he was way above an universe buster with his Reality Warping.
> 
> Also if we go via flawed power scaling, I would say that creating a fucking moon in real life terms would destroy the entire Narutoverse population since the energy to create a moon would be stronger than any number of nukes we can imagine.
> 
> ...



Unless she has higher durability... or say made it away from herself.
From what I know there's really nothing stopping her from destroying the entire narutoverse population save the fact she decided to play with nardo and sauce and because of the zetsu thing, so really not seeing your point.


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## Hardcore (Aug 11, 2014)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> We don't know anything right now because Kishi keeps changing the story.



Truest sentence of all.


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## Red Angel (Aug 11, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> Yes he fought Celestials and made Galactus is herald as a an Adult, not as a child. As an Adult he was way above an universe buster with his Reality Warping.
> 
> Also if we go via flawed power scaling, I would say that creating a fucking moon in real life terms would destroy the entire Narutoverse population since the energy to create a moon would be stronger than any number of nukes we can imagine.



Reality warping is hax that ignores durability and shit

This is simply a case of energy manipulation where you can utilize it however you want

Though TS said the rest for me but, bleh

Fiction doesn't have to adhere to real life physics



> The energy to create a moon would kill everyone including herself.



Or she's durable enough to withstand such energy


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## TobiSan (Aug 11, 2014)

All I see is people speculating and throwing out scaling powers from the woodcutter. Where are the scans for moon level energy blasts and HPS+ speed.

Right now I am going with Mind-Rape.


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## Island (Aug 11, 2014)

First time I'm seeing this thread, so I might be a little late.

Concerning Mewtwo getting scaled from Rayquaza, I think the consensus was that using base stat totals doesn't work. Concerning Team Rocket capturing Rayquaza, something I like to post a lot, that's a feat for Team Rocket, not so much Mewtwo. We don't know how much Team Rocket advanced in the time between _Mewtwo Returns_ and _Temple of the Sea_, so any scaling there is shaky, at best.

Concerning speed feats, I think we should evaluate _Genesect and the Legend Awakened_ first. In this movie, Mega Mewtwo Y runs circles around Genesect. All I can find is a lame AMV on YouTube, but nevertheless:

[youtube]en-asZnrqUc[/youtube]

At 4:30, Mewtwo transforms into Mega Mewtwo Y when the three Genesect attack and then everything _stops_.

It should also be noted that the Genesect movie shows that Mewtwo can transform into Mega Mewtwo Y on a whim and pretty quickly too.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 11, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> All I see is people speculating and throwing out scaling powers from the woodcutter. Where are the scans for moon level energy blasts and HPS+ speed.
> 
> Right now I am going with Mind-Rape.



Mewtwo loses to top tiers in Naruto. How would it beat THE strongest character


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## TobiSan (Aug 12, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Mewtwo loses to top tiers in Naruto. How would it beat THE strongest character



Mind-rape, easy as that.


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## Red Angel (Aug 12, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> All I see is people speculating and throwing out scaling powers from the woodcutter. Where are the scans for moon level energy blasts and HPS+ speed.
> 
> Right now I am going with Mind-Rape.



Translation: "I don't like it, it doesn't count"

If she can put out such energy in creating a moon she can put such energy into her attacks. Basic fucking logic


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## Red Angel (Aug 12, 2014)

Can't believe I'm arguing for something Nardo related here


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## TobiSan (Aug 12, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Translation: "I don't like it, it doesn't count"
> 
> If she can put out such energy in creating a moon she can put such energy into her attacks. Basic fucking logic




Creation /=/ Destruction, I already pointed it out with different characters who can do similar feats but get owned in battles hard. 


If the logic is so simple, show me a feat of her shooting out moon busters.


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## Red Angel (Aug 12, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> Creation /=/ Destruction, I already pointed it out with different characters who can do similar feats but get owned in battles hard.
> 
> 
> If the logic is so simple, show me a feat of her shooting out moon busters.



You just said things like Franklin Richards and Michael are somehow not universe busters despite having feats/powerscaling for it

What? You expecting us to show you something like energy blasts that engulf the planets surface? Well by that logic DBZ characters attacks aren't planet busting because the planet remains intact during their fights and most of their attacks only destroy mountains


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## NightmareCinema (Aug 12, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> *Creation /=/ Destruction*, I already pointed it out with different characters who can do similar feats but get owned in battles hard.



Wrong. Wrong.
FUCKING. WRONG.
As been said already, it takes energy to create as well as to destroy.

I guess this means the Anti-Spirals aren't multi-galaxy/universe level anymore even though they created the Super Spiral Space where the final battle took place. Said Super Spiral Space was full of galaxies, too. 




> If the logic is so simple, show me a feat of her shooting out moon busters.



How you can't understand powerscaling is beyond me. She's said to be more powerful than the fuckers who (supposedly) created the moon. That would make her at least moon level.

Also, characters don't always have to be constantly throwing out destructive-as-fuck attacks in order for them to be at that level. If that's the case, by your "logic", then:
1. Dragon Ball characters aren't planet level because they don't constantly blow up planets. 
2. Metal Gear high-tiers aren't multi-city block level because they don't constantly destroy city-blocks,.
3. Genesic GaoGaiGar isn't at least planet level despite it being superior to Star GaoGaiGar juiced up on THE POWER (that did destroy or more specifically, HIKARI NI NARE'd three of Jupiter's moons during the final battle in the original anime) simply because Genesic GaoGaiGar itself didn't constantly feature destructive feats like that.

And so on and so forth.
It's fiction. It's inconsistent.
Deal with it.


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## Fenrir (Aug 12, 2014)

Jesus CHRIST TobiSan, shut the fuck up

Stop making people argue for _Nardo_ for longer than the normal human being can endure


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## TobiSan (Aug 13, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> You just said things like Franklin Richards and Michael are somehow not universe busters despite having feats/powerscaling for it
> 
> What? You expecting us to show you something like energy blasts that engulf the planets surface? Well by that logic DBZ characters attacks aren't planet busting because the planet remains intact during their fights and most of their attacks only destroy mountains




DB characters in the manga aren't planet busters, Piccolo is either the strongest character or moon busting twice in the manga is PIS.

Because they go all out all the time and they fail to destory the planet. I am not getting into this argument again.

Statements<feats.



NightmareCinema said:


> Wrong. Wrong.
> FUCKING. WRONG.
> As been said already, it takes energy to create as well as to destroy.



If you go by real life power scaling and logic, then I will say that with real life physics if you tried to make the moon out of nothing the energy created from it would destroy every living thing on Narutoverse.




Fenrir said:


> Jesus CHRIST TobiSan, shut the fuck up
> 
> Stop making people argue for _Nardo_ for longer than the normal human being can endure



Don't come here then.


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## Red Angel (Aug 13, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> DB characters in the manga aren't planet busters, Piccolo is either the strongest character or moon busting twice in the manga is PIS.



Arbitarily dismissing this as PIS doesn't make them PIS

And then you have fucking Freiza and Buu planet busting, which means, DBZ can planet bust

Also, ever heard of powerscaling?



> Because they go all out all the time and they fail to destory the planet. I am not getting into this argument again.
> 
> Statements<feats.



Or because fiction doesn't have to be consistent real physics and logic

DBZ chars can planet bust because they have the feats for it

GFTO fgt



> If you go by real life power scaling and logic, then I will say that with real life physics if you tried to make the moon out of nothing the energy created from it would destroy every living thing on Narutoverse.



"I don't know how fiction or powerscaling works"



> Don't come here then.



No u


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## AgentAAA (Aug 13, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> DB characters in the manga aren't planet busters, Piccolo is either the strongest character or moon busting twice in the manga is PIS.
> 
> Because they go all out all the time and they fail to destory the planet. I am not getting into this argument again.


Why would they, when they've outright stated they can control the destructive AoE of their attacks? There's such a thing as focusing energy into a small area, and just because you don't like that idea doesn't mean it doesn't happen, or that it doesn't hold water.
And again, Buu blows up earth. not by statement. he blows it the fuck up. You see the earth explode on panel.
You're very good at selectively ignoring parts of arguments.



> If you go by real life power scaling and logic, then I will say that with real life physics if you tried to make the moon out of nothing the energy created from it would destroy every living thing on Narutoverse.


Assuming it touched the naruto earth and was allowed to expand to encompass it, yeah.
Assuming none of the energy touches parts of the planet? It's about as dangerous as the energy in the sun - Probably less, given the energy is concentrated.
It is really adorable how you forget consistently that buu blows up earth on-panel in every single argument  though, given it's brought up everytime you start this shit.





> Don't come here then.


If people who didn't agree with your views didn't come here you'd be the only poster left in the OBD.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Aug 13, 2014)

Just gonna point out that Infinite Tsukuyomi is essentially planetary mind rape, so Kaguya actually has much better feats in that department than Mewtwo does on top of being far more powerful and much faster.

Sucks to see one of my favorite Pokemon get raped like this, but he's just plain outmatched here.


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## NightmareCinema (Aug 13, 2014)

TobiSan said:


> DB characters in the manga aren't planet busters, Piccolo is either the strongest character or moon busting twice in the manga is PIS.
> 
> Because they go all out all the time and they fail to destory the planet. I am not getting into this argument again.
> 
> Statements<feats.



>Says moonbusting feat by Piccolo in Part II Dragon Ball is PIS.
>Vegeta was threatening to blow up Earth and WAS GOING TO DO SO during the beam war between him and Goku.
>No sense of powerscaling.
>Ignoring Kid Buu's casual planetbusting feat later on in the series.
>Ignoring Frieza blowing up planet Vegeta.
>Saying that they're going all out yet not causing collateral damage.

You are terrible at this. You seem to forget that concentrated attacks are a thing. As well as powerscaling. 



> If you go by real life power scaling and logic, then I will say that with real life physics if you tried to make the moon out of nothing the energy created from it would destroy every living thing on Narutoverse.



You're trying to apply real life physics to its absolute fullest to fiction... Which, as you should already know by now, tends to not follow our laws of physics, either completely or at all. 

For example, Justice nuking Japan in Guilty Gear. IIRC, a countrybusting attack IRL would cause an extinction event because of the amount of dust kicked up into the atmosphere or something. Guess fucking what. That didn't happen in Guilty Gear. Justice nuked all of Japan in one shot yet life still continues on Earth. *With that said, the same can be applied to the moon creation feat here in Nardo* (ugh, I still can't believe I'm arguing for Nardo).


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## AgentAAA (Aug 13, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> >Says moonbusting feat by Piccolo in Part II Dragon Ball is PIS.
> >Vegeta was threatening to blow up Earth and WAS GOING TO DO SO during the beam war between him and Goku.
> >No sense of powerscaling.
> >Ignoring Kid Buu's casual planetbusting feat later on in the series.
> ...



If only people'd stop making nardo threads. Or at least stick to the tolerable, sensible, and moderately interesting part 1 of the series.


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## KaiserWombat (Aug 13, 2014)

Yeah, I think the last 4 pages have made the result of this matchup very clear.

As painful as it is to cede victory to a character as awful as Kaguya, there's exactly zero advantage Mewtwo has going into this with Mugen Tsukiyomi factored into the equation, as even trademark mind-crushing/wiping is out of the window against the sheer range and scale of Kaguya-tier _genjutsu_.

Locking this before it falls into complete disarray...


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