# Tobi is Obito theory is almost a reality now.



## Vegeta's Urine (Dec 7, 2011)

Kakashi has entered the fray and who would be the perfect person to show their reaction than his best friend?
Also, Gai knows Obito and you could say he has been the closest to Kakashi from his generation since Obito died so his reaction is important too, he will give Kakashi moral support.


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## Turrin (Dec 7, 2011)

I agree the fact that Kakashi was who Kishi picked to show up in the battle where Tobi's identity will probably be exposed is some support for this theory.


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## Kezone (Dec 7, 2011)

You're right, this chapter does suport the Tobito theory but it still isn't confirmed.

Thinking back, I'd say that Obito and Gai probably got along well. I've also always thought that Gai started his rivalry with Kakashi partly in order to distract Kakashi from his mourning.


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## handsock (Dec 7, 2011)

WHERE THE FUCK IS ZABUZA'S SWORD?


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## Odlam (Dec 7, 2011)

> WHERE THE FUCK IS ZABUZA'S SWORD?



The true important question of this chapter indeed.

Tobi = Obito is very possibly still though, although he'd only be Obito in the smallest sense of the world being mostly a mad scientist creation by Madara


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## Pretty Good Satan (Dec 7, 2011)

Odlam said:


> The true important question of this chapter indeed.
> 
> Tobi = Obito is very possibly still though, although he'd only be Obito in the smallest sense of the world being mostly a mad scientist creation by Madara



FrankenObito hate katon.

But yeah, soon, so very soon...  :33


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## Chibason (Dec 7, 2011)

handsock said:


> WHERE THE FUCK IS ZABUZA'S SWORD?



He left it on the battlefield so Suigetsu can rightfully claim all the swords.

@OP- Im surprised to see him there, because I dont believe in the Tobito theories....

But its looking a little more possible today


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## handsock (Dec 7, 2011)

Chibason said:


> He left it on the battlefield so Suigetsu can rightfully claim all the swords.



GRASP YOUR TONGUE, THEY ALL BELONG TO TEMARI!


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## Nic (Dec 7, 2011)

I think Obito's body is mostly being used as a vessel though, but yeah I'm willing to bet that it's obito's face now.


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## jacamo (Dec 7, 2011)

yes... Kakashi turning up does act as minor support for the Obito theory

i still dont buy it though


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## Joshu (Dec 7, 2011)

If he turns out to be Obito there is a chance I can finaly stop reading the manga.

As soon as its revealed as to what the fuck happen to Rin, I am done.

Seriously, Kishi. The other most important person in Kakashi's life just vaporizes at the end of the arc his best friend dies in? WTF???

Rin just give upon being a Ninja and move out of town?


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## Jeαnne (Dec 7, 2011)

kishi just wants to confuse us 


its probably obito's body there, but not obito's mind.


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## Yuna (Dec 7, 2011)

The only way Obito can be Tobi is if Tobi is someone else using Obito's body as a vehicle while also keeing up a constant henge (because Obito's eyes look nothing like Tobi's) or if they're simply using Obito's Sharingan. So that's not actually Obito being Tobi in any way which can be considered a victory for Tobito theorists.


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## Pretty Good Satan (Dec 7, 2011)

Joshu said:


> If he turns out to be Obito there is a chance I can finaly stop reading the manga.
> 
> As soon as its revealed as to what the fuck happen to Rin, I am done.
> 
> ...



You ever think the reason Rin's disappearance/death hasn't been explained is because it ties into why Obito became a villain? So, he's saving that reveal for when/after it's revealed that Tobi is really Obito...


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## hazzardo (Dec 7, 2011)

Tobi is Madara's brother. Deal with it.


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## Yuna (Dec 7, 2011)

Pretty Good Satan said:


> You ever think the reason Rin's disappearance/death hasn't been explained is because it ties into why Obito became a villain? So, he's saving that reveal for when/after it's revealed that Tobi is really Obito...


Because that makes perfect sense. If Obito survived that cave, why didn't he immediately return to Konoha instead of waiting until Rin died to become Tobi? Or do you think Rin died within hours of escaping that cave? Also, how is it logical Obito would go from happy-go-lucky guy who loves his friends and village to someone who tries to kill his Sensei, his wife and destroy Konoha just because the girl he liked died?

That's the most contrived villain backstory ever.


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## Escargon (Dec 7, 2011)

Yes.... Yes!


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## Pretty Good Satan (Dec 7, 2011)

Yuna said:


> Because that makes perfect sense.



Glad that you agree.



Yuna said:


> If Obito survived that cave, why didn't he immediately return to Konoha



He was heavily wounded and needed to be medically treated by the other villains....



Yuna said:


> Also, how is it logical Obito would go from happy-go-lucky guy who loves his friends and village to someone who tries to kill his Sensei, his wife and destroy Konoha just because the girl he liked died?



Could be a combination of Rin dying and Tsukuyomi to make Obito embrace the Will of Hate...

Yahiko died and Nagato went from a peaceful guy to killing babies...


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## Sock (Dec 7, 2011)

So this guy is the same age as Kakkashi?


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## Escargon (Dec 7, 2011)

Sock said:


> So this guy is the same age as Kakkashi?



Wrinkles could be Naruto whiskers, he might have stolen some DNA from the Naruto baby. I think <<


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## Blackberry90 (Dec 7, 2011)

Vegeta's Urine said:


> Kakashi has entered the fray and who would be the perfect person to show their reaction than his best friend?
> Also, Gai knows Obito and you could say he has been the closest to Kakashi from his generation since Obito died so his reaction is important too, he will give Kakashi moral support.



I was thinking along those lines too, though Im still not sure if Tobi is Obito, there is a possibility.


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## Swagger Wagon (Dec 7, 2011)

> The perfect chance to reveal Izuna possessing Obito's body


Indeed 

Obito would have no motivation to start this war. I'm sticking with my body snatching theory


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## Star★Platinum (Dec 7, 2011)

The same obito who would have been a mere child when the masked man fought Minato?  The same Obito who fought for Konoha, and would need a complete turn around in ideals to become like Tobi?


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## Pretty Good Satan (Dec 7, 2011)

Sock said:


> So this guy is the same age as Kakkashi?



Tell me he doesn't look like Obito.


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## Swagger Wagon (Dec 7, 2011)

Pretty Good Satan said:


> Tell me he doesn't look like Obito.


All we can say for sure is similar is the hair 
Eyes don't tell us much. Kishi uses a pretty standard shape when drawing them with most characters.


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## Star★Platinum (Dec 7, 2011)

Pretty Good Satan said:


> Tell me he doesn't look like Obito.



And your explanation for him being 12-14 when the masked man attacked is?  And his complete turn around in morals and such?.. I doubt being crushed by a rock made him so bitter as to hate Konoha.  There's no way the masked man was obito fighting Minato, given the man was adult, had prowess using his abilities and was experienced.  Would be the biggest ass-pull ever.


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## Yuna (Dec 7, 2011)

Pretty Good Satan said:


> Tell me he doesn't look like Obito.


The only similarity is the hair. Their eyes are nothing alike. Tobi's slope downward slightly at the corners, Obito's does not. Their upper eyelid also differs in shape (just slightly).

"The hair" is a ridiculous argument.


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## atenzor (Dec 7, 2011)

a reality? more like a nightmare yes


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## shintebukuro (Dec 7, 2011)

Yuna said:


> The only way Obito can be Tobi is if Tobi is someone else using Obito's body as a vehicle while also keeing up a constant henge (because Obito's eyes look nothing like Tobi's) or if they're simply using Obito's Sharingan. So that's not actually Obito being Tobi in any way which can be considered a victory for Tobito theorists.



You're mistaken if you think all Tobito theorists believe Tobi is Obito turned evil or something. 

All "Tobito" means is that Obito is the secret behind Tobi's mask. If it ends up being true, it's a certain victory for Tobito enthusiasts.


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## MYJC (Dec 7, 2011)

I don't think so.

This is like the 3rd time Kakashi has ran into Tobi. If Tobi really was Obito, you'd think he would have at least SOME reaction upon running into his old teammate. Instead he's just like "Oh, two more guys from Konoha".


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 7, 2011)

Kishi no 

don't do this


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## Yuna (Dec 7, 2011)

shintebukuro said:


> You're mistaken if you think all Tobito theorists believe Tobi is Obito turned evil or something.
> 
> All "Tobito" means is that Obito is the secret behind Tobi's mask. If it ends up being true, it's a certain victory for Tobito enthusiasts.


It's the most *common* sentiment held by Tobito theorists. Tobi being Obito in nothing but name would be pointless. "It's his body/Sharingan!" "Yes, and?"


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## Tryke (Dec 7, 2011)

There is only one real discrepancy in my mind to the Tobi=Obito theory.  When the masked man attacked Minato and Kushina, he was already super skilled in S/T jutsu, sharingan, and seemed fairly experienced/older.  At that time, kakashi was still a young teen and he is supposedly the same age as Obito.  I wouldn't rule out Obito's body being used as a vessel, but this to me seems like evidence against Tobi=Obito.

Btw, I'm not a hater, I actually used to think Tobi=Obito made a lot of sense until I saw Tobi attack Minato.


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## Sadako (Dec 7, 2011)

Sure, it's a possibility, and with this chapter the probability went up a bit.

But it would still be so friggin' stupid and make no sense. Seriously, if Tobi turns out to be Obito I'll... I don't know. Don't wanna think about it


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## shintebukuro (Dec 7, 2011)

Yuna said:


> It's the most *common* sentiment held by Tobito theorists. Tobi being Obito in nothing but name would be pointless. "It's his body/Sharingan!" "Yes, and?"



It's the most common sentiment held by the loud people who piss you off. There are _many_ people who think Tobi's S/T jutsu bears a resemblance to Kamui.

And it wouldn't be pointless. It would satisfy the mystery of Tobi's identity and S/T jutsu. There's not much else that can be behind Tobi's mask that can actually be exciting.


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## Yuna (Dec 7, 2011)

shintebukuro said:


> And it wouldn't be pointless. It would satisfy the mystery of Tobi's identity and S/T jutsu. There's not much else that can be behind Tobi's mask that can actually be exciting.


It would make no sense from a storytelling perspective. That guy whose identity has been a mystery for years upon years? Some guy possessing a dead guy's body. We only saw the dead guy or 3 chapters and therefore he's important enough to be the vessel! The end.

The fact that Tobi is still keeping his identity a secret has to mean something. It must mean that Tobi's identity is crucial to the puzzle. Tobi's identity being someone possessing Obito would add nothing to the story except a bit of angst for Kakashi. Tobi being Obito would actually be meaningful (if stupid).

That's why, in my opinion, Tobi simply being someone possessing Obito's body or Sharingan would be pretty pointless. The "Possessing Obito's Sharingan" is less pointless and makes more sense, though.


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## Kiss (Dec 7, 2011)

It's more likely now.


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## shintebukuro (Dec 7, 2011)

Yuna said:
			
		

> It would make no sense from a storytelling perspective. That guy whose identity has been a mystery for years upon years? Some guy possessing a dead guy's body. We only saw the dead guy or 3 chapters and therefore he's important enough to be the vessel! The end.



The bottom line here, is that for a guy whose identity has been a mystery for years and years, there aren't many suitable options. Yes, when you write it that way, it looks horrible. But what's the alternative? 

And I think some of the importance comes from the fact that Obito was basically Naruto w/ Sharingan. I'm inclined to think he was a character with some of the most potential in the series based on that.


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## Uzumakinaru (Dec 7, 2011)

I wouldn't like it, but it's Kishi manga, not mine.


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## ? (Dec 7, 2011)

Sock said:


> So this guy is the same age as Kakkashi?



The boulder did it


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## First Tsurugi (Dec 7, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFzLd8EK3sU[/YOUTUBE]


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## Polynikes (Dec 7, 2011)

It's impossible to reason with this rationale. This scenario which has many possibilities is confirmation of Tobi=Obito, it's simply mind-boggling. 

So as one who argues the contrary, I concede to your superior logic; of course it will happen because you say so.

How silly of me to think an adult was fighting Minato or controlling the Mizukage. I mean, there are so many explantions for this right? I just need to believe the author can magically remove this obstacle, and it will happen!


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## Reddan (Dec 7, 2011)

Polynikes said:


> It's impossible to reason with this rationale. This scenario which has many possibilities is confirmation of Tobi=Obito, it's simply mind-boggling.
> 
> So as one who argues the contrary, I concede to your superior logic; of course it will happen because you say so.
> 
> How silly of me to think an adult was fighting Minato or controlling the Mizukage. I mean, there are so many explantions for this right? I just need to believe the author can magically remove this obstancle, and it will happen!



I hold the belief like many, that it was Obito's reconstructed body using Zetsu parts. I also think that though a small part of Obito was aware of the situation it was a different entity, most likey Madara or Jubi controlling his actions. Hence why he followed their plans, but still had Obito's playful persona. However, I think now Obito has gained greater control and might be willingly following the plan.


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## Nic (Dec 7, 2011)

Polynikes said:


> It's impossible to reason with this rationale. This scenario which has many possibilities is confirmation of Tobi=Obito, it's simply mind-boggling.
> 
> So as one who argues the contrary, I concede to your superior logic; of course it will happen because you say so.
> 
> How silly of me to think an adult was fighting Minato or controlling the Mizukage. I mean, there are so many explantions for this right? I just need to believe the author can magically remove this obstacle, and it will happen!



well 11-13 year old itachi looked like an adult. lol


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## Hamaru (Dec 7, 2011)

I didn't want to believe it, but now it looks like it could be the case. I hope Kakashi gets some good fight time in and Naruto deals with Kabuto.


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## lathia (Dec 7, 2011)

"Nothing is true, everything is permitted."



I won't be surprised if this baseless illogical assumption becomes reality.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Dec 7, 2011)

Rather compelling, but not cast in stone yet.

Even then it's not like Tobi is actually Obito. I imagine it's Obito's body, but not the person.



lathia said:


> "Nothing is true, everything is permitted."
> 
> 
> 
> I won't be surprised if this baseless illogical assumption becomes reality.


Reps for the Assassin symbol are coming.


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## Target (Dec 7, 2011)

less then 5% chance and thats counting body snatching your all crazy


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## Leuconoe (Dec 7, 2011)

Well...I think I _did_ read somewhere that this year would be Kakashi's year. So...I would at most lean on the body snatching.


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## Crona (Dec 7, 2011)

Not really. Kakashi has faced Tobi other times also, I don't see the difference this time.

Except he called him a kid last time and now called him a maggot.


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## Tantalus (Dec 7, 2011)

If this is the case, I quit. That will be Kishi's final troll for me.


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## Swagger Wagon (Dec 7, 2011)

arednad said:


> I hold the belief like many, that it was Obito's reconstructed body using Zetsu parts. I also think that though a small part of Obito was aware of the situation it was a different entity, most likey Madara or Jubi controlling his actions. Hence why he followed their plans, but still had Obito's playful persona. However, I think now Obito has gained greater control and might be willingly following the plan.


This is one of my guilty pleasure theories, but the problem with reconstruction is that Tobi had been controlling Yagura for around four years already when Obito was still an infant/very young child.

And we can assume that the Tobi we know has the same body (since we're talking about possession here) as the  Mizukage-Tobi we saw in that one flashback, seeing as Kisame confirmed they were the same person after Tobi unmasked in front of him.


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## Appleofeden (Dec 7, 2011)

Pretty Good Satan said:


> Tell me he doesn't look like Obito.



He doesn't look like Obito


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## Kenzo (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm still going with Rikudou Sennin but the Obito theory is gaining momentum now that Kakashi is here.

Doesn't necessarily have to be Obito could just be his body.


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## Penance (Dec 7, 2011)

Escargon said:


> Wrinkles could be Naruto whiskers, he might have stolen some DNA from the Naruto baby. I think <<



Scars...

Soooon.....the TRUTH will be revealed...


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## Penance (Dec 7, 2011)

lathia said:


> "Nothing is true, everything is permitted."
> 
> 
> 
> I won't be surprised if this baseless illogical assumption becomes reality.



For everything is genjutsu, but this one, simple truth: Tobito ALWAYS made sense...


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## vegeta2002 (Dec 7, 2011)

No one is answering the obvious point that a few people have brought up. Obito wouldn't have been old enough to on the night of the Kyuubi attack. Before anyone says that it was actually Madara, we've seen Tobi's techs and we've seen Madara's techs. It was Tobi who attacked Minato.


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## Daryoon (Dec 7, 2011)

Kakashi and Madara share the same MS technique, they just use it differently. Why else would we have never seen Tobi's MS if it wasn't a massive give-away?


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## Reddan (Dec 7, 2011)

vegeta2002 said:


> No one is answering the obvious point that a few people have brought up. Obito wouldn't have been old enough to on the night of the Kyuubi attack. Before anyone says that it was actually Madara, we've Tobi's techs and we've seen Madara's techs. It was Tobi who attacked Minato.



I have answered what I think. It was Madara controlling Obito. Obito's body was crushed by the boulder and rebuilt using Zetsu. So it was like a Frankenstein monster.


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## vegeta2002 (Dec 7, 2011)

arednad said:


> I have answered what I think. It was Madara controlling Obito. Obito's body was crushed by the boulder and rebuilt using Zetsu. So it was like a Frankenstein monster.



I'm not talking about how old he looks. I'm talking about the timeline. Obito would've still been a teenager on the night of the Kyuubi attack. Teenage rebuilt Obito vs Hokage Minato.


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## Reddan (Dec 7, 2011)

vegeta2002 said:


> I'm not talking about how old he looks. I'm talking about the timeline. Obito would've still been a teenager on the night of the Kyuubi attack. Teenage rebuilt Obito vs Hokage Minato.



What's wrong with that? Madara finds Obito soon after he is crushed and rebuils him. He then uses controls him to attack Konoha. Not much wrong with the timeline.


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## Chibason (Dec 7, 2011)

arednad said:


> What's wrong with that? Madara finds Obito soon after he is crushed and rebuils him. He then uses controls him to attack Konoha. *Not much wrong with the timeline.*



Kakashi and Gai are in the chapter where MInato and Tobi fought, and they have the appearance of young teenagers. 

Tobi appeared to be the same height as Minato, but Obito would also have been a young teenager at the time if he weren't dead from being completely crushed by giant rocks.


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## Golden Witch (Dec 7, 2011)

vegeta2002 said:


> I'm not talking about how old he looks. I'm talking about the timeline. Obito would've still been a teenager on the night of the Kyuubi attack. Teenage rebuilt Obito vs Hokage Minato.



Who says that was Obito?
We still have no Idea when Madara died.

And Teenage rebuilt Obito isn't a problem either IF Madara is involved.
Kishi can always come up with a way to explain the increase in Power when we have a Guy who seems to have no problem with experimenting on Bodies.
Merging DNA?
Eye Transplantations?
Zetsu Goo?

But yeah its totally impossible that he got a major power-up from Madara.
Especially since he did so well against Minato.


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## Talis (Dec 7, 2011)

Chibason said:


> Kakashi and Gai are in the chapter where MInato and Tobi fought, and they have the appearance of young teenagers.
> 
> Tobi appeared to be the same height as Minato, but Obito would have been a young teenager at the time if he weren't dead from being completely crushed by giant rocks.



Turrin said something about 4 years age difference between Kakashi and Obito and i kinda support him.
If you look at Kakashi he graduate at an age of 5 while Obito did at age of 9, but yet they are at the same team.


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## daschysta (Dec 7, 2011)

We know orochimaru worked with madara in some capacity, or at least had some knowledge, he could be involved in frankenobito.


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## vegeta2002 (Dec 7, 2011)

arednad said:


> What's wrong with that? Madara finds Obito soon after he is crushed and rebuils him. He then uses controls him to attack Konoha. Not much wrong with the timeline.



That would also make Tobi much younger than Nagato... I'm not saying that it's not possible. It just wouldn't make a lot of sense. There were plenty of other Uchihas available at the time of Obito's death.


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## Ezekial (Dec 7, 2011)

This is the worst "evidence" to back up a theory ever, Kakashi is there because of his sharingan, Tobi is Izuna, end of


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## Reddan (Dec 7, 2011)

vegeta2002 said:


> That would also make Tobi much younger than Nagato... I'm not saying that it's not possible. It just wouldn't make a lot of sense. There were plenty of other Uchihas available at the time of Obito's death.



Not really, because I don't think Tobi is just Obito. I think there is some part of Madara's conscious in Tobi or if not the Jubi. Hence, why Tobi is carrying out the plan. I can imagine a desperate Obito agreeing to anything to live a bit longer. After Rin died he embraced his new life.


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## son_michael (Dec 7, 2011)

omg I love this, the people who denied the evidence, denied the simmilarities, are all hear hanging there head syaing "well its not him...just his body" LMAO   


what a glorious day, we came a long way my friends.


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## vegeta2002 (Dec 7, 2011)

I almost forgot this one:

If Tobi is Obito, why was he so unprepared for Minato's speed and jutsus? Teachers spar with their students.


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## Daryoon (Dec 7, 2011)

vegeta2002 said:


> That would also make Tobi much younger than Nagato... I'm not saying that it's not possible. It just wouldn't make a lot of sense. There were plenty of other Uchihas available at the time of Obito's death.



Plenty of other Uchiha around? Go re-read Part I. It was stated several times: ninjas don't leave prized bloodlines sitting around for people to steal.

If an Uchiha went missing, it would be a VERY big deal, not only because of the sharingan's power, but because of how the Leaf suspected them. Madara COULDN'T just waltz in and steal any old Uchiha. Even when they were massacred, you can bet every single Uchiha was accounted for. If not, Itachi wouldn't have been the sole suspect.

Obito was an Uchiha that got left behind, presumed buried alive. You think someone like Madara would let an opportunity like that slide?


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## nadinkrah (Dec 7, 2011)

Tobi didn't know shit about Minato yet you expect him to be Obito. 
Whenever he sees Kakashi he treats/talks to Kakashi like any other guy.
Part of his face mask removed and we saw his face.
He was scared of Edo Madara.

I'm surprised people are taking this thread seriously.


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## vegeta2002 (Dec 7, 2011)

Daryoon said:


> Plenty of other Uchiha around? Go re-read Part I. It was stated several times: ninjas don't leave prized bloodlines sitting around for people to steal.
> 
> If an Uchiha went missing, it would be a VERY big deal, not only because of the sharingan's power, but because of how the Leaf suspected them. Madara COULDN'T just waltz in and steal any old Uchiha. Even when they were massacred, you can bet every single Uchiha was accounted for. If not, Itachi wouldn't have been the sole suspect.
> 
> Obito was an Uchiha that got left behind, presumed buried alive. You think someone like Madara would let an opportunity like that slide?



No, you read the manga. Tobi waltzing into Konoha undetected is one of the main reasons Minato suspected he was Madara. 

Remember when Shisui drowned himself? No one seemed upset that he was missing both of his eyes.


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## gershwin (Dec 7, 2011)

Last chapter Tobi was Juubi.
The chapter before he was Izuna.
Earlier - Madara`s clone.

No one is just a Troll.


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## Pretty Good Satan (Dec 7, 2011)

vegeta2002 said:


> I'm not talking about how old he looks. I'm talking about the timeline. Obito would've still been a teenager on the night of the Kyuubi attack. Teenage rebuilt Obito vs Hokage Minato.



11 year old Itachi kicked Orochimaru's ass in two-panels... Is it so difficult to believe that 16 year old Obito lost to Minato?


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## Reddan (Dec 7, 2011)

Obito and Kakashi were the same age. The databook confirms Obito was 13 when he died.


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## ZiharkXVI (Dec 7, 2011)

Wait...it IS?

So close you can almost taste it huh?  Funny, I still don't see it.  Maybe its just cause I can't see the future, but oh well.  Guess we'll find out.  Almost a reality...meaning it never was?  Just now coming about?  Lol.


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## Golden Circle (Dec 7, 2011)

I disagree with the idea of this thread immensely.


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## vegeta2002 (Dec 7, 2011)

Pretty Good Satan said:


> 11 year old Itachi kicked Orochimaru's ass in two-panels... Is it so difficult to believe that 16 year old Obito lost to Minato?



Obito was not Itachi. If you wanna say that Madara trained him to be badass, Obito already had a badass teacher back when he was failing. That brings me to this:

There are certain people in the manga who should not be shocked by Minato's speed and hiraishin. Obito is one of them.


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## Penance (Dec 7, 2011)

vegeta2002 said:


> I almost forgot this one:
> 
> If Tobi is Obito, why was he so unprepared for Minato's speed and jutsus? Teachers spar with their students.



Yeah, like when Kakashi used MS jutsus on Nart-oh, waitaminute...


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## vegeta2002 (Dec 7, 2011)

Penance said:


> Yeah, like when Kakashi used MS jutsus on Nart-oh, waitaminute...



What? Up until that point Kakashi hadn't used his MS in front of Naruto. Now explain this:



*Tobi:* "He teleported? Talk about fast!" Lol

I can't say this enough to Obito "theorists": Read your mangas. Kakashi Gaiden is really good in particular.


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## Dolohov27 (Dec 7, 2011)

nadinkrah said:


> Tobi didn't know shit about Minato yet you expect him to be Obito.
> Whenever he sees Kakashi he treats/talks to Kakashi like any other guy.
> Part of his face mask removed and we saw his face.
> He was scared of Edo Madara.
> ...


 Exactly. So because Kakashi shows up its a hint that Tobi is Obito  the fuck outta here.


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## Sagitta (Dec 7, 2011)

Seriously!? That kids head was crushed by a rock. Why would any villain save this kids life after that. He had no sharingan, it was taken away by Kakashi. Plain and simple. Unless that was an intense genjutsu. Anyways this is dumb, it has no support to back it up. Just coincidence.


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## Shadow_fox (Dec 7, 2011)

There are a few very good reasons why Tobi could be Obito. 

 For one, his age/birth day fits in perfectly with what Tobi could be, after Madara died and before Nagato and Yahiko created Akatsuki. 

 I even have a perfect theory to why Obito is a Tobi.

 For one, he was never said to have any family, just that he was an Uchiha. A very powerful Uchiha if he awoken the Sharingan so fast in it's second to full stage. 

 My guess is that he was created as a clone of Madara maybe who used Genjutsu or seals to seal his memory away, as Sasori did with Yuura, and sent him to Konoha to find the new Jinchuuriki, Kushina, to learn about the status of Uchiha and the Kages. 
 Somewhere along the way Obito learned to care for his teammates and became Obito. 
 When he was about to die, the real Madara appeared and saved him from being completely destroyed like Tobi did with Sasuke against Oonuki. 
 He healed him up with Zetsu or something other and died soon after.


----------



## Shadow_fox (Dec 7, 2011)

Sagitta said:


> Seriously!? That kids head was crushed by a rock. Why would any villain save this kids life after that. He had no sharingan, it was taken away by Kakashi. Plain and simple. Unless that was an intense genjutsu. Anyways this is dumb, it has no support to back it up. Just coincidence.



 The damage doesn't matter, remember how Sasuke was nearly vaporized by Oonuki and Tobi somehow saved him? I think he used Izanagi with one of his eyes. 

 The same thing can work for Obito if Madara uses Izanagi and saves him from being completely crushed.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 7, 2011)

It sure could be Obito's body but "Tobi" is the one in control.


----------



## vegeta2002 (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm one lottery ticket away from being rich. Me being a millionaire is almost a reality.


----------



## Drums (Dec 7, 2011)

Lol I love how suddenly not everyone goes berserk anymore at the mention of the Tobito theory but most seem willing to even discuss it or bite it. Some days/weeks ago people would rage and bash the Tobito supporters, idiocy at its best.

Ive been a Tobito supporter since the start btw.


----------



## Golden Circle (Dec 7, 2011)

No.

And I hope this gets merged with all the other Tobito threads and lost.


----------



## vegeta2002 (Dec 7, 2011)

Shadow_fox said:


> There are a few very good reasons why Tobi could be Obito.
> 
> For one, his age/birth day fits in perfectly with what Tobi could be, *after Madara died and before Nagato and Yahiko created Akatsuki. *
> 
> ...



Nagato is older than Obito. Jiraiya trained Nagato---> then Jiraiya trained Minato---> then Minato trained Obito. See the problem?

Half smashed Obito walks up to his elder Nagato and starts bossing him and his friends around? No No No.


----------



## Lammy (Dec 7, 2011)

Yuna said:


> That's the most contrived villain backstory ever.



You can say the same thing about everyone Naruto has talk no jutsued


----------



## MonkeyCannon (Dec 7, 2011)

Its most probably not obito...

However im almost 100% certain that Tobi's right sharingan eye, and perhaps even his body, once belonged to obito.

Prepare for Kakashi's MS to appear soon, in tobi's mask


----------



## UberDruid (Dec 7, 2011)

Could Tobi be Kagami or Shisui instead? Kakashi and Gai would know how those two would look like.


----------



## vegeta2002 (Dec 7, 2011)

Let me clarify the timeline even further.

1. Madara died shortly after awakening the Rinnegan
2. Madara implanted the Rinnegan into a child, Nagato
3. Obito is some 10-15 years younger than Nagato. 
4. Obito died around age 13
5. 10-15 years + 13 years = 23-28 years after Madara died

Why is this important? If Madara died before Obito was even born, who rebuilt Obito? You can't keep saying Madara did it without him going "back to future" or some shit.


----------



## Swagger Wagon (Dec 7, 2011)

vegeta2002 said:


> Let me clarify the timeline even further.
> 
> 1. Madara died shortly after awakening the Rinnegan
> 2. Madara implanted the Rinnegan into a child, Nagato
> ...


This, plus I see I lot of people forgetting the whole grown man Tobi enslaving Yagura thing.


----------



## Lammy (Dec 7, 2011)

It's possible.

Remember, Kishimoto thinks in a creative way having already known the solution and is revealing the answer slowly while making you question and discuss what's going on. He can make it Obito or not. He can also make it Izuna or not or Juubi or not or actually all 3.

People solely against the Obito theory are inflexible, not creative and are LIMITED by the few answers given. It's not like we're saying he is Pakkun or Momma Frog, that' be ridiculous. Simple as that.

So with that in mind, we'll have to create up an answer that will hopefully tie in with what Kishimoto reveals.

Questions like: "Why is Obito around when Yagura was enslaved?" 
Just think of a solution guys - Yagura, Kisame, Mei aren't THAT old. It's perfectly reasonable that it could have happened within a 10-20 year period.


If we really think back, with what Kishimoto has created in backstories for Zabuza, Gaara, Orochimaru, Itachi, Sasori Nagato, etc. it's really not hard to believe what it is...


----------



## Talis (Dec 7, 2011)

Swagger Wagon said:


> This, plus I see I lot of people forgetting the whole grown man Tobi enslaving Yagura thing.



Tobi didn't controle Yagura, i am sure it was the real Madara since he was supposed to be alife back then.


----------



## vegeta2002 (Dec 7, 2011)

Lammy said:


> It's possible.
> 
> Remember, Kishimoto thinks in a creative way having already known the solution and is revealing the answer slowly while making you question and discuss what's going on. He can make it Obito or not. He can also make it Izuna or not or Juubi or not or actually all 3.
> 
> ...



I won't let Obito "theorists weasel out of this one by comparing Obito theories to other Tobi identity theories. They are not the same. Math and logic are inflexible. Theories are supposed to die when they're proven wrong. 



vegeta2002 said:


> Let me clarify the timeline even further.
> 
> 1. Madara died shortly after awakening the Rinnegan
> 2. Madara implanted the Rinnegan into a child, Nagato
> ...



I seem to have vacated this Obitobi room by simply proving that Madara was dead before Obito was born. I hope more people use this *simple* formula to end future Obito threads.


----------



## Reddan (Dec 7, 2011)

vegeta2002 said:


> Let me clarify the timeline even further.
> 
> 1. Madara died shortly after awakening the Rinnegan
> 2. Madara implanted the Rinnegan into a child, Nagato
> ...



Will see what the VOLUME translation of that line is. I for one don't think the hair was a coincidence. Kishimoto would have no reason for Tobi to have short hair when he attacked, long hair when he enslaved the Mizukage and spoke to Itachi and then back to short hair.

The more likely explanation with the evidence we have is that the long haired masked fellow was Madara and he survived up until recently. Time will tell though. He knows Orochimaru well enough.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Dec 7, 2011)

No, Madara has definitely been dead for a long time. Everything after the Kyuubi attack has indeed been Tobi.

Conveniently, although we're led to believe that Madara and Tobi have interacted at some point, there's no indication of how or when that happened. If there were a flashback that showed Tobi interacting with a still living Madara, that would basically kill the theory.

However, that hasn't happened yet.


----------



## Lammy (Dec 7, 2011)

vegeta2002, this isn't about math and simple formula. We are not bound by rigid rules.



			
				vegeta2002 said:
			
		

> 1. Madara died shortly after awakening the Rinnegan
> 2. Madara implanted the Rinnegan into a child, Nagato
> 3. Obito is some 10-15 years younger than Nagato.
> 4. Obito died around age 13
> 5. 10-15 years + 13 years = 23-28 years after Madara died



1) Shortly is a relative amount of time. It can be a 5 minutes or 5 years. We don't know when he died or how he died.
2) Yes Madara claims he did implant Rinnegan into Nagato.
3) Yes Obito is 10-15 years younger than Nagato.
4) Yes Obito died around age 13.
5) That's a wrong assumption again. You've added 1+1= 3. no. We don't know when he died or how he died. We also don't know if Madara had an accomplise [Zetsu? Izuna? Juubi?] to forward his will onto a possible Obito.



Whatever the case, Kishimoto definately knows Obito is a strong contender and is pulling that thread over our eyes teasing us!


----------



## Enclave (Dec 7, 2011)

vegeta2002 said:


> I won't let Obito "theorists weasel out of this one by comparing Obito theories to other Tobi identity theories. They are not the same. Math and logic are inflexible. Theories are supposed to die when they're proven wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> I seem to have vacated this Obitobi room by simply proving that Madara was dead before Obito was born. I hope more people use this *simple* formula to end future Obito threads.



You know, to avoid confusion you should PROBABLY stop calling Tobi Madara when he's rather obviously NOT Madara.

Additionally, you disproved nothing.  For one thing, what you're saying relies on Tobi actually telling the truth about being the one who implanted the Rinnegan into Nagato.  Problem there is that Tobi is a notorious liar.  I honestly don't know why anybody trusts anything that comes out of his mouth.


----------



## Lammy (Dec 7, 2011)

Enclave said:


> You know, to avoid confusion you should PROBABLY stop calling Tobi Madara when he's rather obviously NOT Madara.




Yup, under wrong assumptions.

Ah, you were posting to vegeta2002, my bad ^_^


----------



## Enclave (Dec 7, 2011)

Yeah, I accidentally quoted you initially.  Tried to edit it before you noticed.


----------



## Pretty Good Satan (Dec 7, 2011)

I too think that Madara died when Nagato was a kid.  Thankfully, we have Zetsu to heal a damaged Obito...


----------



## vegeta2002 (Dec 7, 2011)

Enclave said:


> You know, to avoid confusion you should PROBABLY stop calling Tobi Madara when he's rather obviously NOT Madara.
> 
> Additionally, you disproved nothing.  For one thing, what you're saying relies on Tobi actually telling the truth about being the one who implanted the Rinnegan into Nagato.  Problem there is that Tobi is a notorious liar.  I honestly don't know why anybody trusts anything that comes out of his mouth.



You didn't read my posts before quoting me and responding. What does Tobi being a liar have to do with me proving that *Tobi isn't Obito?* I'm only talking about Madara because people are saying that he revived Obito when the timeline says otherwise. I could've gone into greater detail, but I half expected to be debating with people who read the manga.

Anyways I'm done with this thread. The Obito proponents I was debating are trying to figure out how Obito was revived as Tobi by Madara when Madara was long dead before Tobi died. Maybe Oro did it. Fap fap fap. Lol.


----------



## Enclave (Dec 7, 2011)

Because it relies on Tobi telling the truth about implanting the Rinnegan into Nagato.


----------



## Ezekial (Dec 7, 2011)

Tobi is NOT Obito commen sense lacks in Tobito thories its actually impossible for Tobi to be him, all facts point to Izuna, face it your all wrong


----------



## Enclave (Dec 7, 2011)

Ezekial said:


> Tobi is NOT Obito commen sense lacks in Tobito thories its actually impossible for Tobi to be him, all facts point to Izuna, face it your all wrong



How is it impossible?  The only thing that points to it being impossible is if Tobi is not lying about implanting the rinnegan into Nagato.


----------



## Lammy (Dec 7, 2011)

vegeta2002 said:


> The Obito proponents I was debating are trying to figure out how Obito was revived as Tobi by Madara when Madara was long dead before Tobi died. *Maybe Oro did it. Fap fap fap. Lol*.



Aw there you go, you're starting to think creatively like a mangaka or a theorist 

Sure, could be Orochimaru, could be Zetsu, could be Madara/Izuna's missing link etc.

It's far fetched, but if you think about how the manga has been written. Were you surprised when Gaara and Orochimaru and Sasori was revealed to be a crying mummy's boy? Or when Pain has a backstory involving ginger haired man-loving? 



			
				Ezekiel said:
			
		

> Tobi is NOT Obito commen sense lacks in Tobito thories its actually impossible for Tobi to be him, all facts point to Izuna, face it your all wrong



If there's anything I've learnt from posting on these boards for the past 8 years... it's common sense has no application when it comes to Shonen mangas! Soap opera-rific and emotional weepies is all it really is. Kakashi or Madara are going to get merfed either way if it's Obito or Izuna.



			
				Enclave said:
			
		

> The only thing that points to it being impossible is if Tobi is not lying about implanting the rinnegan into Nagato.



No that doesn't make it impossible at all. If we assume that Tobi is correct that the rinnegan was implanted in Nagato - there are still solutions

1) Real Madara had figured out how to make extra sets or Madara managed without his own. Madara then lived for a 'short' while crippled without his rinnegan. Or Madara and Nagato both were still rinnegan powered. Doesn't matter.

2) Tobi is referring to it metaphorically ie: "this power *is *mine", as opposed to "this power *was *mine" - because frankly, the power was not Tobi's because it was Madara's. Unless he means the sharingan unlocking the potential for Rinnegan is his - which implies Tobi is an Uchiha, which means he could be Obito or Izuna or Fukagu, or any named Uchiha.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Dec 7, 2011)

Tobi's comment about giving Nagato the Rinnegan most likely refers to the true Madara. Same goes for the comments about them being his to begin with, unless of course he turns out to be Izuna.

So it's not really a lie so much as a half truth.


----------



## Enclave (Dec 7, 2011)

Lammy said:


> No that doesn't make it impossible at all. If we assume that Tobi is correct that the rinnegan was implanted in Nagato - there are still solutions
> 
> 1) Real Madara had figured out how to make extra sets or Madara managed without his own. Madara then lived for a 'short' while crippled without his rinnegan. Or Madara and Nagato both were still rinnegan powered. Doesn't matter.
> 
> 2) Tobi is referring to it metaphorically ie: "this power *is *mine", as opposed to "this power *was *mine" - because frankly, the power was not Tobi's because it was Madara's. Unless he means the sharingan unlocking the potential for Rinnegan is his - which implies Tobi is an Uchiha, which means he could be Obito or Izuna or Fukagu, or any named Uchiha.



I mean if he wasn't lying that he himself implanted the Rinnegan into Nagato.  If it really was Tobi who did it then he couldn't be Obito.  That said, Tobi is a notorious liar so him saying he did that isn't really proof at all.

Don't forget, I'm one of the original supporters of Tobito.  You do not need to try to convince me that he's Obito.


----------



## Lammy (Dec 7, 2011)

Yeah I agree with First Tsurugi and you, Tobi was just lying in his Madara facade. And yeah it's irrelevant anyway because we're to understand it was Madara himself [not Tobi] who did the Rinnegan stuff with Nagato.


----------



## Icegaze (Dec 7, 2011)

Obito will have something to do with Tobi but I'm sure it's not the real Obito as in his will and memories and all that. The way Tobi doesn't give 2 sh!ts about Kakashi says something. Besides he seems like a dude with a lot of years behind him, calling 40 something year old Konan a "little girl".


----------



## Lammy (Dec 7, 2011)

I think the "little girl" and "kid" remarks from Obito are more like condescension.

It does strike me how the 1st time we ever saw Tobi, everyone instantly though "It's Obito" because of the 1 eyed mask, the hair, the metal clamps, the retarded way of speech and the clumsiness. This stuff doesn't happen by accident. It's occam'z razer. Kishimoto is actually going out of his way to throw mis-direction to make us not think it's Obito in some form.

It seems more and more likely that it's Izuna/Madara's will possessing Obito's body. Kishimoto has already left alot of precurser with Orochimaru's experimentation, his constant body swaps etc. 

Just for the dramatic purposes with Kakashi. If Kishimoto is still happy to keep Kakashi included in the mix that is.  Remember, Kishimoto will definately have a 2 month long flashback explaining every single nit and detail to convince you 


It's also Izuna because of the dramatic purposes for Sasuke/Itachi parralell.


----------



## Dragonpiece (Dec 7, 2011)

Exact same theory I had..


----------



## Penance (Dec 7, 2011)

Enclave said:


> I mean if he wasn't lying that he himself implanted the Rinnegan into Nagato.  If it really was Tobi who did it then he couldn't be Obito.  That said, Tobi is a notorious liar so him saying he did that isn't really proof at all.
> 
> Don't forget, I'm one of the original supporters of Tobito.  You do not need to try to convince me that he's Obito.



I've known since the beginning...


----------



## Yuna (Dec 7, 2011)

Lammy said:


> Questions like: "Why is Obito around when Yagura was enslaved?"
> Just think of a solution guys - Yagura, Kisame, Mei aren't THAT old. It's perfectly reasonable that it could have happened within a 10-20 year period.


20 years ago, Obito was, what, 7?


----------



## Lammy (Dec 7, 2011)

Yuna said:


> 20 years ago, Obito was, what, 7?



Assuming Obito is around the same age as Kakashi.

10 years ago, Obito was, what, 20?


What's your point? 

I'm not saying Obito STARTED the Mist Village massacre training that brought up Zabuza and Kisame. Because Obito was still alive then trying to pass the chuunin exam. That could very well be the real Madara or a the previous body of Tobi. Or the previous Mizukage. Or Yagura ruled for quite some time.


----------



## Yuna (Dec 7, 2011)

Lammy said:


> Assuming Obito is around the same age as Kakashi.
> 
> 10 years ago, Obito was, what, 20?
> 
> What's your point?


*You* were the one who brought up the time-frame of 10-20 years.



Lammy said:


> I'm not saying Obito STARTED the Mist Village massacre training that brought up Zabuza and Kisame. Because Obito was still alive then trying to pass the chuunin exam. That could very well be the real Madara or a the previous body of Tobi. Or the previous Mizukage. Or Yagura ruled for quite some time.


Yes, keep making stuff up to fit into this crazy theory of yours that's only based on "The hair", "Similar to Kakashi's Kamui" and "Kakashi just arrived on the scene".


----------



## Lammy (Dec 7, 2011)

Yuna said:


> *You* were the one who brought up the time-frame of 10-20 years.



Like to bold the word "you" eh? 

*You *were the one assuming the worse. If Obito was 2 years older than Kakashi, then 20 years ago Obito would have been 13 (the age he died) but that's still irrelevant.

However, taking in that Kisame and Ibiki (and possibly Ao) are only 31, it seems very unlikely that it was exactly 20 years ago when they were 11 and encounted Yagura. 

It's more likely 10 years ago.

Hence, I gave the time frame somewhere between 10-20 years between Yagura being controlled. Actually it's even possible to make it 5-20 years given the push. 



			
				Yuna said:
			
		

> Yes, keep making stuff up to fit into this crazy theory of yours that's only based on "The hair", "Similar to Kakashi's Kamui" and "Kakashi just arrived on the scene".



It's not my theory. And thanks for your condescending tone on the last remarks. *You *know those arent the only indicators for Tobito theorists.

I personally believe it's a weird Madara Izuna Obito hodgepodge Frankenstein fest. What I am arguing against is the people like *you *who are quick to dismiss without thought. 

By the way, I'll also let you know that I was totally right about Itachi and Pain as well. 

So yes, we have to "make stuff up" because that's what Kishimoto does.


----------



## Lammy (Dec 7, 2011)

Yuna said:


> Tobi being Obito in nothing but name would be pointless. "It's his body/Sharingan!" "Yes, and?"




Unfortunately the other alternative is that all this build-up to Tobi being un-masked and... it's a face no one recognises. "Yes, and?" 

Whereas if it was Obito's face, then you get the angst from Kakashi and the very main narrative thread of Naruto - which- is redemption and sob stories. Did he go evil-was he controlled, can he be redeem himself, is it just a redherring shell etc. 

Also if Izuna or Juubi is included in the "also inhabiting Obito's body" theory, then that also completes Madara and Sasuke/Itachi story too somewhat.

It's best to keep finding solutions and ways to keep it interesting, as opposed to "Fuck you, this theory is retarded. You're retarded. Good night."


Hoho, when Tobi does become un-masked... time to brace ourselves for an overly explained 2 month explanation flashback to stab at the haters. This board is soo going to be full of anger and resentment again hahahahahaha


----------



## Don-kun (Dec 7, 2011)

This may sound silly but I cannot get it out my mind.
Sasuke mother know Kushina was pregnant right, how could Tobi know when Kushina was given birth to Naruto if he was top secret.

Then we had this:

Itachi asking for his parents, and later panel


This is vary silly but I cannot stop thinking about it.


----------



## Nashima (Dec 7, 2011)

StrawHeart said:


> Lol I love how suddenly not everyone goes berserk anymore at the mention of the Tobito theory but most seem willing to even discuss it or bite it. Some days/weeks ago people would rage and bash the Tobito supporters, idiocy at its best.
> 
> Ive been a Tobito supporter since the start btw.



Ive noticed this as well. Wonder how many people are gonna start supporting this theory now T_T. I was a tobito supporter from the start as well. Hell i started posting on these forums to defend it.

I cant explain how long i was waiting for this moment. I know kakashi and tobi have been in the same place before but those moments were not right. This is the perfect moment. Tobi being obito would have the biggest impact vs the other theories (izuna, kagami etc etc). Just imagine what tobi being obito would do to kakashi O_o. The only other thing that would have a bigger effect  is tobi being a former hokage.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 8, 2011)

X Itachi X said:


> The same obito who would have been a mere child when the masked man fought Minato?  The same Obito who fought for Konoha, and would need a complete turn around in ideals to become like Tobi?



Maybe he is like Alone from Saint Seiya. A guy who loved his friends but had twisted ideas of how to "save them".

Remember they said to Naruto that if Naruto disregarded the opinion and efforts of others and attempted to do everything on his own he would end up being just like Tobi. In short Naruto has the potential to become like Tobi, not even Sasuke could (Sasuke may become Madara, but not Tobi) this is important only the main character so far has beem outright stated to have the potential of the final villain.

And who was EXACTLY like Naruto back then? Obito.

So perhaps Obito after suffering so much in the war decided he would do everything on his own at any cost, and that he would "save" his dear friends with Mugen Tsukuyomi. Killing Minato, may been seen as a secondary goal for greater peace, or perhaps on his twisted way of mind he thought he was offering peace to his sensei by killing him removing him from the world of hatred.


----------



## Jad (Dec 8, 2011)

Anyone thought that perhaps Tobi is using Obito's other eye ? O_o................ Yeah it MIGHT have got crushed, or might have not.

Maybe it is both Obito and Izuna (Madara's brother). His body with Obitos eye.


----------



## TobiSamoht (Dec 8, 2011)

Nashima said:


> Ive noticed this as well. Wonder how many people are gonna start supporting this theory now T_T. I was a tobito supporter from the start as well. Hell i started posting on these forums to defend it.
> 
> I cant explain how long i was waiting for this moment. I know kakashi and tobi have been in the same place before but those moments were not right. This is the perfect moment. Tobi being obito would have the biggest impact vs the other theories (izuna, kagami etc etc). Just imagine what tobi being obito would do to kakashi O_o. The only other thing that would have a bigger effect  is tobi being a former hokage.



Same with me man, I've been waiting for this moment for about 5 years now. I never really understood all the hatred and mockery for Tobito, considering the large amount of evidence supporting it. But its cool how everyone's embracing it now that Kakashi showed up


----------



## Bitch (Dec 8, 2011)

Uh, what?

First of all, this isn't the first time Kakashi encountered Tobi.  The same theories popped up during the search for Sasuke arc and at the end of the kage summit arc.  Kakashi is simply there for his Sharingan and to act as temporary support for Naruto and Bee.

Second, timeline-wise the Tobi = Obito theory makes no sense.  Tobi was a teenager at the time of the Kyuubi attack.  There is no way he could have fought the 4th Hokage, controlled or not.  In response to the possibility that he was controlled: Why would Madara/Jubi/whatever choose a 2nd rate Uchiha child over plenty of other ninja?  Its not like he was the only Uchiha at the time, nor was he the only half-dead ninja in the area.  

This theory is ridiculous.


----------



## Algol (Dec 8, 2011)

YESH!!! YESH!!!!

my thoughts exactly


----------



## Shadow_fox (Dec 8, 2011)

vegeta2002 said:


> Let me clarify the timeline even further.
> 
> 1. Madara died shortly after awakening the Rinnegan
> 2. Madara implanted the Rinnegan into a child, Nagato
> ...


 

 Actually no, it's not that simple. 

 You see we don't know for sure when Madara implanted the eyes because we don't know if he ever had them. For example, it could have happened right then when Jiraiya discovered Nagato had them. Otherwise if Nagato could instantly control them and awaken them he could also turn them off but he never did, it means that he received them like that. So that could have happened right there. 

 Now, Jiraiya stayed only two years maybe with them then returned right away to Konoha to train Minato. 

 Now we don't know Minato's exact age when he got his team, but it wasn't peaceful times, so we can assume he got them when he was 20 or 26 at the most, same time when Kakashi got his team. I'm leaning more on 20 because Minato was a genius, he even finished the academy at 10, so even 20 is a stretch. 

 So, when Jiraiya comes to train Minato, it can be assumed that Obito is already born. 

 So the time frame is not impossible.


----------



## Magnamancy (Dec 8, 2011)

I'm the farthest thing from a supporter of Tobito theories, 
but Kakashi rocking up at this point was like sounding an 
alarm in my head. =/


It's not a necessarily bad theory, I've just poked too 
many holes in the logic of it in my time to personally 
take it seriously anymore. ._.


----------



## Rama (Dec 8, 2011)

I don't want to admit it but yeah...seems to me the pieces are fitting for this theory.  But it might be a trap


----------



## Escargon (Dec 8, 2011)

The theories of Tobito is giving me headache but i am a Tobito biebelivier


----------



## Zelavour (Dec 8, 2011)

The TC totally stole my topic idea


----------



## Easley (Dec 8, 2011)

Holy shit, the Tobito theory is more annoying than ever. I haven't posted in over a year cuz I got tired of arguing, but one way or another Kishi should end it soon. He's milked Tobi long enough. Just take off the fucking mask and be done with it. Seriously, I'm not even sure Kishi had a plan for this guy. I just know he pissed on the greatest reveal in the manga - the one in chapter 364. Tobi = Uchiha Madara? wow, minds were blown! but no, that's not good enough... he needs another bullshit twist later on. 

Which brings me to Tobito. 

The theory still makes no sense at all. Not since Tobi became the main villain, at least. Besides the lack of motive, I doubt Obito would ever be as all-knowing as Tobi. He seems like a living history book - knows stuff about Rikudo, Juubi, Madara, EMS... and also has ability to back it up. Remember when the masked guy attacked Konoha, Minato suspected Uchiha Madara... but it was definitely Tobi. He used the same S/T jutsu. Now unless Kishi does a retcon this similarity is hard to explain, Tobi has a deep connection to Madara somehow. Obito body possession theory is even worse, imo. Without the 'mind' it might as well be anyone. No emotional investment.

At this point I think Kishi is just fucking with us. Tobi might be an unknown like AL. Keeping a person in shadow or wearing a mask generates mystery but doesn't have to be someone you'd recognize. Whatever the case, the massive delay in revealing his face is almost certain to be an anticlimax, or in the case of Tobito being true... an epic troll!


----------



## SaVaGe609 (Dec 8, 2011)

I want Tobi to be Obito, just to see the forums implode. 

And then name it, like the "Great Tobito Implosion of 2011" or "Tobito's Forum Panic of 2011"


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## son_michael (Dec 8, 2011)

SaVaGe609 said:


> I want Tobi to be Obito, just to see the forums implode.
> 
> And then name it, like the "Great Tobito Implosion of 2011" or "Tobito's Forum Panic of 2011"



it could be its own Mem or syndrome 

your about to get tobito'd!


"whats wrong with that guy?"   "he's suffering post tobito syndrome"


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## Penance (Dec 8, 2011)

All my power to will it into existence...


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## SaVaGe609 (Dec 8, 2011)

son_michael said:


> it could be its own Mem or syndrome
> 
> your about to get tobito'd!
> 
> ...





*Tobito:* verb. 1. To be astonished or angered by something utterly unlikely and ridiculous coming to pass. 2. For one's mind to explode.


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## kardez (Dec 9, 2011)

the reason this fits. when Tobi first attacked Konoha, you see Kakashi and Gai say (well mostly Gai) "Lets test our strength"

and what better way to test Obito's new power...than against the very village he's from, against the TOP ninja ever to live?

another supporting stance, is Kakashi's nindo..which he got from Obito.


then passed onto Naruto


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## T-Bag (Dec 9, 2011)

StrawHeart said:


> Lol I love how suddenly not everyone goes berserk anymore at the mention of the Tobito theory but most seem willing to even discuss it or bite it. Some days/weeks ago people would rage and bash the Tobito supporters, idiocy at its best.
> 
> Ive been a Tobito supporter since the start btw.



ive heard it so many times that im too fed up too care. tobito theorists are fucking- fucking- FUCKING _____________ .

ppl still cling to that stupid theory, its funny


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## Pastelduck (Dec 9, 2011)

I don't think math is going to persaude me nor anyone on either side what they believe.


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## Nashima (Dec 9, 2011)

Easley said:


> Holy shit, the Tobito theory is more annoying than ever. I haven't posted in over a year cuz I got tired of arguing, but one way or another Kishi should end it soon. He's milked Tobi long enough. Just take off the fucking mask and be done with it. Seriously, I'm not even sure Kishi had a plan for this guy. I just know he pissed on the greatest reveal in the manga - the one in chapter 364. Tobi = Uchiha Madara? wow, minds were blown! but no, that's not good enough... he needs another bullshit twist later on.
> 
> Which brings me to Tobito.
> 
> ...



Lack of motive? Tobis goal is to put an end to war and he wants to achieve it no matter what. Is it hard to imagine someone like obito hating war so much that he would want to do ANYTHING to stop it? And how would a guy like obito become all knowing? Well.....zetsu? The guy is a living recorder who has been alive for who knows how long. Maybe zetsu showed obito everything he has recorded? That EASILY would explain how he knows so much about guys like madara and rikudo. These so called holes this theory has can be explained away so easily its not even funny.


And with the time line. Keep in mind that this manga was made for kids/teens. You guys really think they sit down and discuss things like the time line? They  could care less. And plus its not impossible for someone to grow or become super strong after a short period of time. Like i said in my first paragraph with a guy like zetsu who is a living recorder who knows what kind of thing he could have shown obito (if this theory turns out to be true). He could have shown him how madara learned how to tame the kyuubi or how an easier way to unlock the ms. These things are NOT impossible as most people make it out to be. We are reading FICTION ffs. Nothing is impossible. There is nothing that wouldn't be able to be explained. Use your imaginations.


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## son_michael (Dec 9, 2011)

Nashima said:


> Lack of motive? Tobis goal is to put an end to war and he wants to achieve it no matter what. Is it hard to imagine someone like obito hating war so much that he would want to do ANYTHING to stop it? And how would a guy like obito become all knowing? Well.....zetsu? The guy is a living recorder who has been alive for who knows how long. Maybe zetsu showed obito everything he has recorded? That EASILY would explain how he knows so much about guys like madara and rikudo. These so called holes this theory has can be explained away so easily its not even funny.
> 
> 
> And with the time line. Keep in mind that this manga was made for kids/teens. You guys really think they sit down and discuss things like the time line? They  could care less. And plus its not impossible for someone to grow or become super strong after a short period of time. Like i said in my first paragraph with a guy like zetsu who is a living recorder who knows what kind of thing he could have shown obito (if this theory turns out to be true). He could have shown him how madara learned how to tame the kyuubi or how an easier way to unlock the ms. These things are NOT impossible as most people make it out to be. We are reading FICTION ffs. Nothing is impossible. *There is nothing that wouldn't be able to be explained. Use your imaginations.*





THIS!!




a million times, THIS!!


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## Easley (Dec 9, 2011)

Nashima said:


> And with the time line. Keep in mind that this manga was made for kids/teens. You guys really think they sit down and discuss things like the time line? They  could care less. And plus its not impossible for someone to grow or become super strong after a short period of time. Like i said in my first paragraph with a guy like zetsu who is a living recorder who knows what kind of thing he could have shown obito (if this theory turns out to be true). He could have shown him how madara learned how to tame the kyuubi or how an easier way to unlock the ms. These things are NOT impossible as most people make it out to be. We are reading FICTION ffs. Nothing is impossible. There is nothing that wouldn't be able to be explained. Use your imaginations.


Using your imagination is fine if you're open to other theories too. The problem with Tobito supporters is that they twist everything to fit one narrow viewpoint. Yes, if you are convinced a theory is right I'm sure the 'facts' do make sense, but this is also true of many other characters. Obito is not special in that regard. I think his story was neatly wrapped up in Kakashi Gaiden. As a villain he would not be convincing. Plus, he's gonna 'die' again. A pointless reunion.

What makes me smile is just how many people have decided that Tobito is basically confirmed. They're just waiting for it to happen. Not counting your chickens before they've hatched comes to mind. That can only lead to disappointment.

If Tobi is actually Obito I can't wait to see the crap Kishi writes. Well, after I stop laughing. Madara has a fearsome reputation and Tobi should match or surpass him, since he's a possible final villain. Would most people be happy if that was _Obito?_ I doubt it.


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## Lammy (Dec 9, 2011)

Easley said:


> If Tobi is actually Obito I can't wait to see the crap Kishi writes. Well, after I stop laughing. Madara has a fearsome reputation and Tobi should match or surpass him, since he's a possible final villain. Would most people be happy if that was _Obito?_ I doubt it.



You've must have forgotten Kishi's writing style. You must have laughed hard at the way Gaara, Itachi, Orochimaru, Sasori, Pain, Minato/Kushina stories were written?

Storywriters are meant to give alot of misdirection, mystery, and tension before the reveal.

Tobi certainly really doesn't have a fearsome reputation and wont match Madara. He's nobody of consequence or he's Obito or Izuna. Obito is more fleshed out than Izuna. But both work. 

The first time Tobi was introduced, he was a joker and everyone thought he was Obito.

The first time Tobi claimed he was Madara, this was what everyone thought:  

Also, each subsequent time Tobi claimed he was Madara to an intelligent character, this was the reaction:

Tobi: I'm Madara.
Minato: No, he's dead. Who are you really?
Tobi: Who knows.
Minato: Doesn't matter.

Tobi: I'm Madara.
Kisame: No, he's dead. Who are you really?
Tobi: Okay but promise not to tell anyone... 

Tobi: I'm...
Sasuke: *Itachi's AMATERASU!* 
Tobi: ... *sigh* Fine, I guess I'm Madara.

Tobi: I'm Madara.
Naruto: No, who are you?!
Tobi: Nobody 



But he's definitely some clutz with an identity crisis.


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## BroKage (Dec 9, 2011)

Kakashi should Kamui the mask off.


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## taeko (Dec 9, 2011)

Tobi could be a random background guy from a Hashirama flashback.


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## Klue (Dec 9, 2011)

Tobi = Obito, in the sense that it's Obito's soul inhabiting that body (Tobi's - well, Obito's body), is something I simply can't see happening. There just isn't any conceivable way that he could have met the real Madara, whom died years prior.

If Tobi is a man inhabiting Obito's body, then it would at least explain why he continued to wear a mask even after everyone accepted him as Madara. But how and why would he bother using the crushed body of a 13 year old?

He literally took the time to age a dead body. 

Whatever! At least it explains the mask. However, at the very least, I think we all should expect him to be making use of Obito's right-eye. We can all see the similarities between Tobi's Space/Time power and Kakashi's.


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## Saizo sarutobi (Dec 9, 2011)

Nashima said:


> Lack of motive? Tobis goal is to put an end to war and he wants to achieve it no matter what. Is it hard to imagine someone like obito hating war so much that he would want to do ANYTHING to stop it? And how would a guy like obito become all knowing? Well.....zetsu? The guy is a living recorder who has been alive for who knows how long. Maybe zetsu showed obito everything he has recorded? That EASILY would explain how he knows so much about guys like madara and rikudo. These so called holes this theory has can be explained away so easily its not even funny.
> 
> 
> And with the time line. Keep in mind that this manga was made for kids/teens. You guys really think they sit down and discuss things like the time line? They  could care less. And plus its not impossible for someone to grow or become super strong after a short period of time. Like i said in my first paragraph with a guy like zetsu who is a living recorder who knows what kind of thing he could have shown obito (if this theory turns out to be true). He could have shown him how madara learned how to tame the kyuubi or how an easier way to unlock the ms. These things are NOT impossible as most people make it out to be. We are reading FICTION ffs. Nothing is impossible. There is nothing that wouldn't be able to be explained. Use your imaginations.



Reps 2 u bro!


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## Nashima (Dec 9, 2011)

Easley said:


> Using your imagination is fine if you're open to other theories too. The problem with Tobito supporters is that they twist everything to fit one narrow viewpoint. Yes, if you are convinced a theory is right I'm sure the 'facts' do make sense, but this is also true of many other characters. Obito is not special in that regard. I think his story was neatly wrapped up in Kakashi Gaiden. As a villain he would not be convincing. Plus, he's gonna 'die' again. A pointless reunion.
> 
> What makes me smile is just how many people have decided that Tobito is basically confirmed. They're just waiting for it to happen. Not counting your chickens before they've hatched comes to mind. That can only lead to disappointment.
> 
> If Tobi is actually Obito I can't wait to see the crap Kishi writes. Well, after I stop laughing. Madara has a fearsome reputation and Tobi should match or surpass him, since he's a possible final villain. Would most people be happy if that was _Obito?_ I doubt it.



Believe me i am open to other theories such as him being izuna. But who exactly would be effected if he takes off his mask and we see izunas face? It would be kind of anti-climatic (which would kill all this suspense). The only reaction we would get is from madara and he would probably just give some smart remark. When it comes to other people like kagami or shisui again these guys wouldn't really make an impact on  anyone. Tobi being obito would directly effect ones of the main characters. Kakashi. Just imagine what that would do to kakashi. Not only that but these forums would implode.

You said his story was wrapped up in the gaiden. Yes i would agree if we actually saw him die and we actually saw them burry him BUT that didnt happen. We didnt really see him die. Yea we saw more rocks fall but whats stopping someone like zetsu from taking him from under the rocks before it was to late? Nothing is impossible.

You say obito should have rep that matches or surpasses that of madara? Hell after all he has done? He pretty much started the 3rd world war and he also ran akatsuki. He also is the reason the fox attacked the village correct? Basically everything that has happened in part 2 is linked to him some how. They cant even HIT the guy. I think his rep is up there. Im am 100% sure if it is obito his name will go down in the history book of fearsome people.



Klue said:


> Tobi = Obito, in the sense that it's Obito's soul inhabiting that body (Tobi's - well, Obito's body), is something I simply can't see happening. There just isn't any conceivable way that he could have met the real Madara, whom died years prior.
> 
> If Tobi is a man inhabiting Obito's body, then it would at least explain why he continued to wear a mask even after everyone accepted him as Madara. But how and why would he bother using the crushed body of a 13 year old?
> 
> ...



Tobi and madara have nothing to do with each other. And like i said zetsu is a living recorder. That would explain why tobi would know so much (if he is obito). 

As to why someone would use the body of a 13 year old crushed uchia? Wouldnt people notice something is wrong if said person took the body of a normal uchia? You know how they act when it comes to the dead body of a ninja. They would never stop looking for it. Using obitos body avoids that problem allowing the person to move in the shadows without having people looking for him 24/7. Also there could have been something unique about obitos body. And if you put a spirit in a dead body wouldnt said body be alive again? So if its alive it would age as well right? But like i said nothing is impossible the person could have used a jutsu that ages (its not impossible).


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## Lammy (Dec 9, 2011)

Also because Obito and Naruto were so similar... it'd also affect Naruto too, because there has been alot of hints that Naruto could become Tobi.

Forget "far-fetchedness".  Forget seemingly "contradicting little details". Think of it from a creative, emotional, and literary standpoint 

In the coming chapters there will be more clues to suggest Obito and Tobi are linked... and they'll be alot more people erring on this side of the coin.


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## MYJC (Dec 9, 2011)

The main reason why I can't see Tobi being Obito: 

-I just can't see Tobi having NO reaction at all upon running into Kakashi. This is like the 3rd time he's run into Kakashi in the manga, and he's just kind of like "Meh, a couple more Konoha guys won't stop me". Last time he was more concerned with Naruto and before that all he cared about was delaying Team Kakashi so he could get to Sasuke. If he was REALLY Obito he'd at least pause for a second upon seeing his old friend. 

-Same with his encounter with Minato. He would at least had some reaction to betraying and dooming his old sensei, but he was mostly indifferent.


Plus, Tobi and Obito really aren't much alike in terms of personality. 

And we KNOW Tobi is connected to Madara, because the real Madara was expecting to be revived and knew about the "Moon's Eye Plan". I'd say Izuna is more likely.

But I still think the most likely thing is Tobi simply being a clone Madara created to carry out his plans and make sure he's revived.


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## Nashima (Dec 9, 2011)

MYJC said:


> The main reason why I can't see Tobi being Obito:
> 
> -I just can't see Tobi having NO reaction at all upon running into Kakashi. This is like the 3rd time he's run into Kakashi in the manga, and he's just kind of like "Meh, a couple more Konoha guys won't stop me". Last time he was more concerned with Naruto and before that all he cared about was delaying Team Kakashi so he could get to Sasuke. If he was REALLY Obito he'd at least pause for a second upon seeing his old friend.
> 
> ...




If kishi allowed tobi to react when he saw kakashi that would be a dead give away. And again tobi has nothing to do with madara. Zetsu on the other hand probably did and he could have shown tobi all of the stuff madara wanted to do. Before madara died he could have told zetsu (assuming zetsu was a partner of his back then) to go find someone who could be made capable of carrying out these plans. Who would hate war and want peace more than someone like obito? Perfect candidate. 

Yes i agree that izuna is likely. But a madara clone hell no. we have been teased way to many times for tobi to be just a madara clone. What would be the point of the mask? We already know what madara looks like. All these suspense and mystery would just go to waste if it was just a clone that looks exactly like madara....


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## Lammy (Dec 9, 2011)

That's true points MYJC - that's why it's suggested it's Izuna/Juubi/new character are equally viable.

Izuna really shouldn't be alive after all these years, so a Zetsu and Obito is thrown in there too to explain the radical difference. And it's only really Izuna to parallel Sasuke/Itachi story and that Izuna would be someone Madara trusts. Theology, characterisations, who Izuna is- well it's a blank canvas.

Now assuming Tobi is definately Obito. Then we can still explain why he didn't give much of a reaction to Kakashi and Minato... simply that Obito is just too far gone. Crazy, memory-erased, whichever. It's not like Nagato gave much of a reaction either when he killed Jiraiya. He only spoke out of formalities.

There's a reason Tobi is wearing a mask, so I'm sure once the mask is removed, he'll speak out of formality too.


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## Easley (Dec 9, 2011)

Nashima said:


> You say obito should have rep that matches or surpasses that of madara? Hell after all he has done? He pretty much started the 3rd world war and he also ran akatsuki. He also is the reason the fox attacked the village correct? Basically everything that has happened in part 2 is linked to him some how. They cant even HIT the guy. I think his rep is up there. Im am 100% sure if it is obito his name will go down in the history book of fearsome people.


I said Tobi should have rep like Madara, not Obito. Just consider for a second if Tobi removes the mask and is Obito? No one knows him besides Kakashi. That limits the reaction of other characters. Madara being well known especially by Tsuchikage has made for some great dialog. He's a legendary Uchiha - his name speaks for itself. A hard act to follow and Obito just doesn't cut it. What I'm saying is that a reveal of this magnitude should not be limited to one person. And you gotta admit it, Obito is basically a Kakashi story - or "maggot" as Tobi likes to call him.


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## ?Sharingan Squid? (Dec 9, 2011)

I've never been a supporter nor a naysayer, but it wouldn't be bad if it does happen.

Kishi visiting NF all the time would be really true then


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## Lammy (Dec 9, 2011)

Easley said:


> I said Tobi should have rep like Madara, not Obito




Well in that case, it shouldn't be Izuna either, who'd forever be in the text books as some *nobody *that died. Secrets of gaining the EMS wont be revealed to the public, and Madara didn't become famous until he acquired the EMS.

Therefore what you're saying is, it's Rikkudo, Juubi, or as yet an unrevealed Legend.


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## Frostman (Dec 9, 2011)

At this point Tobi could be anybody. Not exclusive to Uchiha.


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## SaVaGe609 (Dec 9, 2011)

Frostman said:


> At this point Tobi could be anybody. Not exclusive to Uchiha.



I started assuming he wasn't an Uchiha a while back. His sharingan is seemingly petrified like Kakashi's, and who knows what was in his original left eye. Whatever it was, it wasn't a sharingan.


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## Easley (Dec 9, 2011)

Lammy said:


> Well in that case, it shouldn't be Izuna either, who'd forever be in the text books as some *nobody *that died. Secrets of gaining the EMS wont be revealed to the public, and Madara didn't become famous until he acquired the EMS.
> 
> Therefore what you're saying is, it's Rikkudo, Juubi, or as yet an unrevealed Legend.


Tobi's "I'm nobody" act sounded false the moment I heard it. Rikudo and Juubi are long shots but would certainly be epic. Izuna is also possible. Madara's brother would gain fame by association!

I'm at a loss who Tobi is, just waiting for the reveal like everyone else. I won't be surprised if we get a random asspull no one would guess.


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## Oknytt (Dec 9, 2011)

The main reason that makes me believe that Tobi is Obito('s body) is mainly that Kishimoto during all of part 2 has been tying up all loose ends. Epic old fight mentioned at part of part1, of course that has to be explained and related to current events. Epic old Uchiha members name mentioned by Kyubi, of course he'll make an actual appearance and be related to current events. Speculations about Narutos family, of course explained... The seven mist swordsmen all had to be shown, since they've been mentioned in the manga, as well as all the kages, and so on...

No loose ends, and all the most really far-out theories there have been with only small things hinting in their direction all have come true.

What loose ends are left? Well, what happened to Rin for example, and the explanation how exactly Kakashi, and Tobi for that matter, ended up with mangekyo sharingan. And the whole point of the Kakashi arc as a prelim for part 2. Since everything else that has ever been mentioned in the manga has been put in context with the overall storyline at later points, this will surely be as well.

Add to that Tobi-Obito name similarities, hair similarities, Tobi/Madaras weird hair change between time periods, Tobis only sharingan, the similarities in MS abilities between Kakashi and Tobi.

There are yet things that should be explained if Tobi is in fact using Obitos body. Someone mentioned how Tobi hasn't reacted to seeing Minato or Kakashi, I'd guess Kakashi will mention Rin once he recognizes Obito and that will trigger the whole flashback stuff when Obito finally remembers who he is (as it is now, he seems to share Madaras memories but think of himself as 'noone', which isn't that hard to imagine an explanation for since most of his head was crushed and Zetsu slime is what's keeping his body together).

Also, concerning possible timeline issues (though I'm not sure there are any since we don't know when the real Madara died, and also don't know that it wasn't Zetsu that 'created' Tobi as we know him). We do have more than enough timeline inconsistencies as it is already to know that Kishimoto at times has made mistakes. Orochimaru left Akatsuki seven years prior to part 1 because Itachi was stronger than him, which would make Itachi 7 years old at the time of the flashback when he defeated Oro, and also a member of Akatsuki long before the Uchiha massacre. 

Similar thing is that Naruto failed the academy graduation twice before succeeding the third time, that should make him two years older than Sasuke who passed the graduation at his first attempt...

As for farfetched theories that get unsatisfactory explanations when they are proven true; how about Itachi brainraping Sasuke multiple times and trying to get him to murder his best friend, all because he loves him so much and wants him to stay loyal to Konoha.


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## Lammy (Dec 9, 2011)

Hey Oknytt - I agree with all your points, well said.

I just need to discuss some mistakes though:




Oknytt said:


> Also, concerning possible timeline issues (though I'm not sure there are any since we don't know when the real Madara died, and also don't know that it wasn't Zetsu that 'created' Tobi as we know him). We do have more than enough timeline inconsistencies as it is already to know that Kishimoto at times has made mistakes. Orochimaru left Akatsuki seven years prior to part 1 because Itachi was stronger than him, which would make Itachi 7 years old at the time of the flashback when he defeated Oro, and also a member of Akatsuki long before the Uchiha massacre.





The 7 year thing you're referring to is here 

Itachi was 11 years old when he joined Akatsuki. He was in Akatsuki while still a Konoha nin. This is presumably where he also found out about Tobi/"Madara" and got his help to kill the Uchiha clan. Crazy huh, how Itachi looks like an adult and hasn't really aged even at 21 when he died. Maybe Itachi's fatal illness was raging hormones 




			
				Oknytt said:
			
		

> Similar thing is that Naruto failed the academy graduation twice before succeeding the third time, that should make him two years older than Sasuke who passed the graduation at his first attempt...



Not necessarally. It seems one can take the Academy test at any given opportunity. Same with Chuunin and Jounin. Remember that really old looking man in the Ibiki Chuunin exam round? lol Coupled with Naruto's brash nature, and not having a family, I can see him taking the test prematurely.

Alot of characters passed at different ages. 

eg: Kakashi at age 5, Obito at age 9, Itachi at age 7, Genma at age 10



			
				Oknytt said:
			
		

> As for farfetched theories that get unsatisfactory explanations when they are proven true; how about Itachi brainraping Sasuke multiple times and trying to get him to murder his best friend, all because he loves him so much and wants him to stay loyal to Konoha.



Haha, we never said Itachi was perfect. He probably felt abit sadistic and wanted Sasuke to also feel the pain Itachi went through when murdering his parents, his friends, his [13 year old] lover...


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## Raiden (Dec 9, 2011)

Ready for him to just show is face already.


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## Jad (Dec 9, 2011)

Technically Hinata should know what Tobi looks like. To bad no one like Aoba dived into her mind to check it out.


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## Grendel (Dec 9, 2011)

Never really supported this theory but after reading some of these posts...I hope it happens now just because of the way people against it talk about the people that support it...

Plus I never really dismissed it because I can see how it is possible as well as the fact that it explains why kishi put the kakashi gaiden before beginning of part 2...but I still like a few other characters betteras tobi...


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## Jad (Dec 9, 2011)

Personally, I think Tobi DOESN'T have to be Obito, rather he is using the other eye of Obito (possibly no crushed). And Tobi will be like "Remember Obito, well I have his other eye"

That or Obito hates war for what it has done to him and now is on a hell bent revenge to stop it, like Nagato had in mind.


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## Evil (Dec 9, 2011)

When Tobi is revealed to be Obito, I will be there at the forefront ready to say I told you so.

I've always kept the faith.


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## Lammy (Dec 10, 2011)

Evil said:


> When Tobi is revealed to be Obito, I will be there at the forefront ready to say I told you so.
> 
> I've always kept the faith.



Haha agreed. 

I always felt we  were too modest and nice with the angry Itachi "he's evil and wants Sasuke's eyes and wants to see the world burn!" crowd. 

So NOT going to give the Obito-doubters the same treatment. Oh no! Y'all are getting your nasty hate doubting messages RE-QUOTED AS A WALL OF SHAME so y'all will never forget. NEVER FORGET.


...


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## Nashima (Dec 10, 2011)

Easley said:


> I said Tobi should have rep like Madara, not Obito. Just consider for a second if Tobi removes the mask and is Obito? No one knows him besides Kakashi. That limits the reaction of other characters. Madara being well known especially by Tsuchikage has made for some great dialog. He's a legendary Uchiha - his name speaks for itself. A hard act to follow and Obito just doesn't cut it. What I'm saying is that a reveal of this magnitude should not be limited to one person. And you gotta admit it, Obito is basically a Kakashi story - or "maggot" as Tobi likes to call him.



I see where you are coming from. In that case i agree that the face should have an impact on most people. But the ONLY people i can think of that would have a huge impact on everyone would be a former hokage. I would say rikudou sennin but why would rikudou sennin call himself tobi/madara? The name rikudou carries much more fear than the name madara. And who would even believe tobi lol? He already lied about being 1 person.

Even if obito would only effect kakashi just imagine how serious that effect would be. Think about it. If it wasnt for obito kakashi would have been dead a long time ago. If obito didnt push him out of the way he would have been the one under the rock. If obito didnt give him that eye pain would have really killed him with the nail. Hell he wouldnt even have made it that far without his sharingan. 



Evil said:


> When Tobi is revealed to be Obito, I will be there at the forefront ready to say I told you so.
> 
> I've always kept the faith.



I to have never lost faith in this theory. When this becomes reality i will go outside and scream my guts all over the place. The things the supporters of this theory had to go through ....will all be worth it in the end. 

God if i could go back and read all of those neg reps.


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## son_michael (Dec 10, 2011)

Ive supported the theory from the very start and I too had to suffer through the constant name calling and negging.... I think its been about 4 years of debates and defending...certainly a crazy ride

I'm not so arrogant as to claim victory and call the naysayers nasty names, I just believe it is a strong possibility and the evidence just kept mounting and strengthening my belief, yet everyone against this theory is so close minded and rude...so if we win, there's going to be a part of me that relishes in their anguish and they have nobody to blame but themselves.

I just don't understand why people never considered it a possibility for a fictional character to come back to life in the world of fiction when we never actually saw him get killed



just boggles the mind


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## T-Bag (Dec 10, 2011)

son_michael said:


> Ive supported the theory from the very start and I too had to suffer through the constant name calling and negging.... I think its been about 4 years of debates and defending...certainly a crazy ride
> 
> I'm not so arrogant as to claim victory and call the naysayers nasty names, I just believe it is a strong possibility and the evidence just kept mounting and strengthening my belief, yet everyone against this theory is so close minded and rude...so if we win, there's going to be a part of me that relishes in their anguish and they have nobody to blame but themselves.
> 
> ...




and ur gona get negged even more when its revealed NOT to be him, just for supporting this theory in the past. im gona be the 1st one to do it (and i never rly neg anyone) i dont know why ppl are suddenly jumpin out their seats this week, as if any clues of him being obito were given

kakashi and tobi already met before multiple times dont see whats up


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## Nashima (Dec 10, 2011)

son_michael said:


> *I just don't understand why people never considered it a possibility for a fictional character to come back to life in the world of fiction when we never actually saw him get killed*
> 
> just boggles the mind



This is what annoys me the most. People act as if its IMPOSSIBLE for obito to have survived that. They act as if no one would be able to take him from under those rocks and fix his broken body. In other words they try to apply real world logic and physics to fiction when it comes to this theory. They act as if kishi wouldnt be able to explain how things went down if this is proven to be true.


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## son_michael (Dec 10, 2011)

T-Bag said:


> and ur gona get negged even more when its revealed NOT to be him, just for supporting this theory in the past. im gona be the 1st one to do it (and i never rly neg anyone) i dont know why ppl are suddenly jumpin out their seats this week, as if any clues of him being obito were given
> 
> kakashi and tobi already met before multiple times dont see whats up




so you never neg anyone and yet your going to neg somebody for defending a theory?



You should only neg those that are arrogant assholes that claim victory and laugh in your face(which is my experience from your side of the fence) 


w/e its fine, neg me if your point is proven but all it will do is show how immature you are.


----------



## Penance (Dec 10, 2011)

Lammy said:


> Haha agreed.
> 
> I always felt we  were too modest and nice with the angry Itachi "he's evil and wants Sasuke's eyes and wants to see the world burn!" crowd.
> 
> ...



YES.    I can't wait until the TRUTH is unmasked...


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## Bucket (Dec 10, 2011)

Tobi: "I am no one"

Obito was in fact a no one, a failure if you will.

Coincidence, I thinks not.


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## Saizo sarutobi (Dec 10, 2011)

Jad said:


> Technically Hinata should know what Tobi looks like. To bad no one like Aoba dived into her mind to check it out.


when the hell hinata got to look at his face?????????!!!!?!


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## Klue (Dec 10, 2011)

Saizo sarutobi said:


> when the hell hinata got to look at his face?????????!!!!?!



When Tobi stalled Team 7 and 8's attempt to retrieve Sasuke, as the Uchiha brothers fought at the Uchiha hideout.



arednad said:


> What's wrong with that? Madara finds Obito soon after he is crushed and rebuils him. He then uses controls him to attack Konoha. Not much wrong with the timeline.



If Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan, but only awakened it shortly before his death, then he died about 10 years prior to Obito's birth. Outside of time travel, there is no way for Obito to have made plans with Madara.




arednad said:


> Will see what the VOLUME translation of that line is. I for one don't think the hair was a coincidence. Kishimoto would have no reason for Tobi to have short hair when he attacked, long hair when he enslaved the Mizukage and spoke to Itachi and then back to short hair.
> 
> The more likely explanation with the evidence we have is that the long haired masked fellow was Madara and he survived up until recently. Time will tell though. He knows Orochimaru well enough.



If Madara gave Nagato his eyes, then that long-haired masked man isn't the real Madara.




Nashima said:


> This is what annoys me the most. People act as if its IMPOSSIBLE for obito to have survived that. They act as if no one would be able to take him from under those rocks and fix his broken body. In other words they try to apply real world logic and physics to fiction when it comes to this theory. They act as if kishi wouldnt be able to explain how things went down if this is proven to be true.



It's not impossible for him to have survived or been revived, repaired, brainwashed, and finally, thrown back in time to meet the real Madara.

Nope, not at all - technically.


----------



## Monstre Charmant (Dec 10, 2011)




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## Saizo sarutobi (Dec 10, 2011)

Klue said:


> When Tobi stalled Team 7 and 8's attempt to retrieve Sasuke, as the Uchiha brothers fought at the Uchiha hideou
> .



im looking at this chapters and cant see anything that declare such thing


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## Crona (Dec 10, 2011)

I'm gonna laugh when Tobi turns out to be the most obvious answer: Zetsu Clone. All this theorizing is just nonsense


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## doubletongue (Dec 10, 2011)

Okay now really, I think that Tobi and Zetsu went around eating every piece of Uchiha shrapnel they could find, those with and without a full set of eyes. The Senju side is naturally able to stay vital and continue to produce, but the Uchiha side would eventually be consumed. Maybe some residual knowledge and personality would have come along too, but would be easily repressed by the ghost of cyclic hate.


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## Icegaze (Dec 10, 2011)

Who ever Tobi turns out to be, it's going to be one hell of a ride.


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## Mephissto (Dec 10, 2011)

Would be funny if both Tobi and Kakashi lose their mask in this battle


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## Ezekial (Dec 10, 2011)

OK ill ask the question that will stop any tobito theories,.say obito survived and rebuilt his body, What motive does he have? To turn into the most evil and powerful shinobi in the manga


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## Kronin (Dec 10, 2011)

I don't think that the last developements are a real evidence of this theory... yes the presence of Kakashi at the moment of the shown of Tobi's face could be a clue to support the theory, but at this point of the story Tobi can be only in the dead body of Obito, (Madara knows Tobi and he is dead when Nagato was a children) and so the importance of Kakashi in this revelation will be very little for the plot. 
Then add that Tobi has already demonstrated that he doesn't care of Kakashi or his sharingan.

I think that Kakashi is there for other reasons as:

1) Distinguish him from the other characters, giving him a leading role in the war (to face the same Tobi), as Kishimoto had promised.

2) Having the occasion to explain why Kakashi has developed the MS, as Kishimoto had promised in the third databook to reveal it in future (and I hope also some details about Rin's death).

3) If Gai will sacrifice his life opening the eight gate, make sense to have close his friend and rival in his last fight.

Off course there is also the probability that Kakashi will die, but until now I think that is more likely for him to lose defintely the sharingan than his life.


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## Lammy (Dec 10, 2011)

Ezekial said:


> OK ill ask the question that will stop any tobito theories,.say obito survived and rebuilt his body, What motive does he have? To turn into the most evil and powerful shinobi in the manga



The Obito we know pretty much died and became hate filled. Due to brain damage/manipulation, watching too many Zetsu recorded videos ala Clockwork Orange, or Rin's death or all 3. 

Just like Nagato did when Yahiko died, when Gaara did when his uncle died, and Sasuke did when Itachi died etc. Kishimoto's defining story shlick is how any person can go wrong given the circumstance, and how to redeem yourself etc. I don't expect his writing style to change.

So Obito then decided to do things in his own twisted way for peace and for the lols. And guided by Zetsu or Juubi or whatnot. 

So far, it's a win win situation for him. If he wins, he gets some form of peace via Eye of the Moon Plan. If he loses, he gets some form of peace by manipulating everyone to use him as a common enemy.


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## Oknytt (Dec 10, 2011)

Lammy said:


> Itachi was 11 years old when he joined Akatsuki. He was in Akatsuki while still a Konoha nin. This is presumably where he also found out about Tobi/"Madara" and got his help to kill the Uchiha clan. Crazy huh, how Itachi looks like an adult and hasn't really aged even at 21 when he died. Maybe Itachi's fatal illness was raging hormones



I didn't remember the exact age difference between Itachi and Sasuke so I probably miscalculated the age because of that.



Lammy said:


> Not necessarally. It seems one can take the Academy test at any given opportunity. Same with Chuunin and Jounin. Remember that really old looking man in the Ibiki Chuunin exam round? lol Coupled with Naruto's brash nature, and not having a family, I can see him taking the test prematurely.
> 
> Alot of characters passed at different ages.
> 
> eg: Kakashi at age 5, Obito at age 9, Itachi at age 7, Genma at age 10



Yes, that is true. I think I remember something said though about the academy changing the graduation rules after the ninja war as there wasn't any longer the same need to rush out people into battle as quickly as possible (might not remember this correctly though).

If student can still graduate at any time though, that raises the problem that Sasuke was seen as one of the greatest geniuses the academy had ever seen, and he still didn't graduate until he was twelve. So either way there are some hard to explain inconsistencies.


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## Lammy (Dec 10, 2011)

Seems Sasuke was lazy and coasted... 

I do agree with you that Kishimoto probably didn't give too much thought into the timeline. Naruto failing the Academy test as a flippant comment and I'd be willing to bet he intended Itachi to be closer to Kakashi's age than Sasuke's, but then Kishimoto filled in a younger age in the databook and didn't think too much of "Meh, 11 year old is stronger than a 40 year old Orochimaru."

So in that regard, Obito doing some weird things to Yagura, Kisame, Minato are very possible.


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## Talis (Dec 10, 2011)

Ezekial said:


> OK ill ask the question that will stop any tobito theories,.say obito survived and rebuilt his body, What motive does he have? To turn into the most evil and powerful shinobi in the manga



*Sigh*, you better could ask ''how did Tobito defeat Minato'' could have been a better question. Look at uhh Nagato, Itachi, Sasuke (from good to bad), Kabuto. There are probably more but they dont come up in my mind yet, there are so many freaking characters which changed ther personality. On top of that, Obito is an Uchiha also which means that hes cursed with the hatred.

Edit: + Who says Tobi is strong?
Did you saw him ever using some ridiculous powerfull offensive attacks?
No you just saw him using 1 time that weapon against Minato which Tenten even could use.
He's strong because he controled the Kyuubi?
No he can controle the Kyuubi because he just has Hashiramas DNA inside him, (and obviously his own Uchiha DNA)which gives this result: 
+ assuming Tobis and Kakashis has both same MS technique we can conclude that thats a double reason why he could controle the Kyuubi since MS grants this ability.
And about his knowledge of the past, Tobi is made out of Zetsu goo which means that they are so close to each other, since we dont know about Zetsus age he migth have knowledge about the whole past+ it looks that Tobi+ Madara migth have worked together which gave Tobi the knowledge about the EMS and more prime Madaras stuff.


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## Nashima (Dec 10, 2011)

Ezekial said:


> OK ill ask the question that will stop any tobito theories,.say obito survived and rebuilt his body, What motive does he have? To turn into the most evil and powerful shinobi in the manga



This can be explained away so easily . I say this to every person who asks this question. Tobis ultimate goal is to achieve world peace so that there would be no more wars and stuff. Now if tobi is obito you can understand why he would do ANYTHING to achieve world peace. Imagine all of the pain and suffering he had to go through if he survived. Imagine the thoughts that would be running through his head. He would have had no one there to teach him the correct way of doing things. Hes also an uchiha like someone has said so hes naturally on the hatred side. Then you have zetsu who was probably just showing him all of the things he recorded. Its easy to see how he could turn into the person he is now.

And like others have said he wouldn't be the only character who changed from one thing to the next.



Violet Haze said:


> I'm gonna laugh when Tobi turns out to be the most obvious answer: Zetsu Clone. All this theorizing is just nonsense



Yes because kishi is hiding the face of a zetsu clone....

After all of this time with that mask on after all of the teasing you really think hes a zetsu clone? Sure he has some goo on his body but if it turns out to be obito then i could say the goo was used to fix the crushed side of his body up.


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## Crona (Dec 10, 2011)

Nashima said:


> Yes because kishi is hiding the face of a zetsu clone....
> 
> After all of this time with that mask on after all of the teasing you really think hes a zetsu clone? Sure he has some goo on his body but if it turns out to be obito then i could say the goo was used to fix the crushed side of his body up.



Of course he's not going to look like Zetsu, he'll probably look like old Madara and yes it would be surprising to see a dead person alive again. There is proper foreshadowing of a Zetsu and it would not be a total asspull nor retcon if he is revealed to be Tobi so from a story standpoint its perfect. Plus it gives us an explanation of why Zetsu has all these abilities and plot relevance.  

Also I recall Obito losing one side of his body, both of Tobi's arms made of Zetsu goo.


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## Shikamaru Nara (Dec 10, 2011)

I'll repeat myself 

Actually, I don't even care whose mind is behind Tobi.It's certainly possible for him to have Madaras/Izunas memories/mind and this "I'm no one" statement could be a hint of him being a experiment of Madara with Hashiramas cells.(My theory)

But just a little warning for everyone who doesn't believe that Tobi has at least Obitos body and/or eye:

As soon as that chapter is released, I'll go on a necro rampage and post in almost every thread that was ever made and tried to disprove this theory and just post " Told ya ".Then give it five stars  I'll probably make a list of links till then so I'm faster 

If it turns out that I'm wrong, I'll request a name change to "Sakura Haruno".
And you know why!


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## RickMartin Ben Janardhan (Dec 10, 2011)

this makes since, but i dnt care im still sticking with my "tobi is from the future/past theory because kishimoto is a DBZ Fan" theory


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## First Tsurugi (Dec 10, 2011)

Violet Haze said:


> Of course he's not going to look like Zetsu, he'll probably look like old Madara and yes it would be surprising to see a dead person alive again. There is proper foreshadowing of a Zetsu and it would not be a total asspull nor retcon if he is revealed to be Tobi so from a story standpoint its perfect. Plus it gives us an explanation of why Zetsu has all these abilities and plot relevance.



We already know Tobi's face isn't Madara's.

Christ how many times do I need to repeat myself.


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## Talis (Dec 10, 2011)

I just want to add something since i dont want to create a new thread; there was a panel which on Kabuto said ''I wanna see that mortified face''. This might had lead people to think that ''Tobi Madara'' was ashamed getting defeated by Hashirama, but Kishi probably is hinting that Tobito got humilated by some rock thus Kabuto hinting to this but its still strange since Kabuto doesnt know his identity as well.


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## First Tsurugi (Dec 10, 2011)

loool3 said:


> I just want to add something since i dont want to create a new thread; there was a panel which on Kabuto said ''I wanna see that mortified face''. This might had lead people to think that ''Tobi Madara'' was ashamed getting defeated by Hashirama, but Kishi probably is hinting that Tobito got humilated by some rock thus Kabuto hinting to this but its still strange since Kabuto doesnt know his identity as well.



I assume you're referring to this page.



That was in reference to him finding the jins before Tobi and nothing more.


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## silenceofthelambs (Dec 10, 2011)

*"Almost reality?" 

When divisons one, two, three, and five show up to the scene of Tobi's battle with the jinchuuriki, will this theory still be "almost reality?" *


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## Nashima (Dec 10, 2011)

Violet Haze said:


> Of course he's not going to look like Zetsu, he'll probably look like old Madara and yes it would be surprising to see a dead person alive again. There is proper foreshadowing of a Zetsu and it would not be a total asspull nor retcon if he is revealed to be Tobi so from a story standpoint its perfect. Plus it gives us an explanation of why Zetsu has all these abilities and plot relevance.
> 
> Also I recall Obito losing one side of his body, both of Tobi's arms made of Zetsu goo.



I dont think you realize the importance of him still wearing the mask. If he was a zetsu clone that looks like an older version of madara all of the suspense kishi has built for the removal of the mask would go down the drain. And yes ia gree it is surprising to see a dead person come back like when minato and kushina came back to speak to naruto . But everyone has already seen madara raise from the dead so how would and older looking madara shock everyone(i mean he readers by he way)when tobi takes off the mask?



silenceofthelambs said:


> *"Almost reality?"
> 
> When divisons one, two, three, and five show up to the scene of Tobi's battle with the jinchuuriki, will this theory still be "almost reality?" *



I dont see how it would change anything. The fact that we are actually close to seeing tobis face and kakashi popping up in the correct time is enough.


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## silenceofthelambs (Dec 10, 2011)

Nashima said:


> I dont see how it would change anything. The fact that we are actually close to seeing tobis face and kakashi popping up in the correct time is enough.



*It would indeed. Kishimoto specifically indicated the need for reinforcements for a reason - and it's one that detracts from the significance of Kakashi and Tobi's encounter.

In other words, Kakashi and Gai are not there because Kishimoto is suggesting Tobi is Obito; Kakashi and Gai are there because they made it to the scene first...do you think the other 30,000 ninja that will potentially support Naruto and Bee will be shocked at the idea that Tobi is Obito?

Were it personal, with no eventual involvement of help, then you would have a point. But considering the amount of Shinobi who will be entering this clash (all with no connection to Obito), the idea that Tobi is Kakashi's long-lost friend gone awry no longer seems as likely as it would without any other third parties.*


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## Summers (Dec 11, 2011)

Jad said:


> Technically Hinata should know what Tobi looks like. To bad no one like Aoba dived into her mind to check it out.



Exactly she knows who it is and is keeping it from everyone! Hinata is the Final villain!


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## Frawstbite (Dec 11, 2011)

Minato giving influence to the destroyer of worlds and the savior of worlds is a nice thought. 

But, I really hope it isn't Obito. I don't have anything against it, but...

WHY?


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## Rose (Dec 11, 2011)

Jeαnne said:


> kishi just wants to confuse us
> 
> 
> its probably obito's body there, but not obito's mind.



I believe that if the Tobi = Obito theory is correct than this is how it will be played out. Tobi has Obito's body not mind.


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## Easley (Dec 11, 2011)

Rose said:


> I believe that if the Tobi = Obito theory is correct than this is how it will be played out. Tobi has Obito's body not mind.


You know what's funny? The Obito body possession theory was almost unheard of until Tobi claimed to be Madara. Most believed in 'pure' Obito. It was an easy way of keeping Tobito alive while still being Madara. 

Now that Tobi could be anyone there's no real reason to use Obito. His eye is possible, Tobi does have a huge collection after all, but using a broken body is a stretch. I don't like pure Obito much either, however it is infinitely better to have his mind intact. At least it would be a genuine exchange with Kakashi, not merely a body snatcher speaking through a dead friend.


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## Lammy (Dec 11, 2011)

silenceofthelambs said:


> *"Almost reality?"
> 
> When divisons one, two, three, and five show up to the scene of Tobi's battle with the jinchuuriki, will this theory still be "almost reality?" *



Sure!

Here's an example:

Naruto: Everyone... is here!?
Everyone: Would we ever leave a comrade behind?
*Tobi: ... !*
Everyone: Well no, if we lost you, we'd all be in trouble.
Naruto: Oh 


LOL


----------



## ste6616 (Dec 11, 2011)

One other possibility is that Obito was Tobi all along. That the Obito we know is a lie. Kakashi Gaiden might have happened from a certain point of view.

We have seen that Tobi can pull out a personality like Obito if he wants to.

How much truth would then be in what Obito said during that story? I don't know. Did he have in mind to give his eye to Kakashi specifically and for what purpose but would tie in how Kakashi unlocked the sharingan. Did he need an escape reason to leave the Leaf Village.

We don't know much about Obito. He could have been somebody else before Obito. Or still be Obito the kid but the good guy part was an act through discoveries of his own or after an encounter. He might have been way more powerful than he let on and already be more Tobi than Obito.

So if it's revealed that Tobi is Obito, the question would then be when Tobi started and Obito ended if there was an Obito to start with.


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## Thdyingbreed (Dec 12, 2011)

There's no way Tobi can be Obito, it was disproved when Konan blew off a part of Tobi's mask showing his face, and Obito should be around the same age as Kakashi.

Sorry but that doesn't look like the face of someone in his mid-late 20s.


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## First Tsurugi (Dec 12, 2011)

Thdyingbreed said:


> There's no way Tobi can be Obito, it was disproved when Konan blew off a part of Tobi's mask showing his face, and Obito should be around the same age as Kakashi.
> 
> Sorry but that doesn't look like the face of someone in his mid-late 20s.



It doesn't look like that to you, but that's irrelevant since what one person sees can be completely different from what another person sees.

All we know for sure is that it isn't Madara's face behind the mask.


----------



## Swagger Wagon (Dec 12, 2011)

After looking at the DB stats
Guess which two people have the same height and weight
Das right, Tobi and Izuna 

/grasping at straws


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## Talis (Jan 2, 2012)

vegeta2002 said:


> I almost forgot this one:
> 
> If Tobi is Obito, why was he so unprepared for Minato's speed and jutsus? Teachers spar with their students.



Actually he was prepared you know, until Minato came in with ??Hirashin lvl 2?? which Minato never showed up before Obito? :ho



Polynikes said:


> It's impossible to reason with this rationale. This scenario which has many possibilities is confirmation of Tobi=Obito, it's simply mind-boggling.
> 
> So as one who argues the contrary, I concede to your superior logic; of course it will happen because you say so.
> 
> How silly of me to think an adult was fighting Minato or controlling the Mizukage. I mean, there are so many explantions for this right? I just need to believe the author can magically remove this obstacle, and it will happen!



A fresh 11 years old Itachi joining and standing in front of Kisame as tall as he is: *Kabuto was visibly upset at losing Nagato.*


Unless Kisame is also around 11 years old right here. 

Heights doesn't matter a lot in manga. In fact when i started to watch Naruto *Anime* i always believed the characters were looking way to tall for their ages. And Sasuke was fighting against Bee they were pretty much on the same height while he's 16.

*Kabuto was visibly upset at losing Nagato.*


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## Babby (Jan 2, 2012)

No. Just no.


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## Swagger Wagon (Jan 2, 2012)

loool3 said:


> A fresh 11 years old Itachi joining and standing in front of Kisame as tall as he is: *Kabuto was visibly upset at losing Nagato.*
> 
> 
> Unless Kisame is also around 11 years old right here.


Uh
Itachi had not left Konoha at that point
He was an ANBU captain in the village at the age of thirteen; given that the massacre occurred five years before the start of the manga that's around the age he should have been there. Not sure how long after the incident he joined Akatsuki.

I agree with the sentiment, though. Height isn't a good indicator. Kishi isn't terribly consistent with it either, though I can't think of any manga artist who pays that much attention to DB-type stats stats when drawing.
Kisame should be 6'3" and Itachi 5'7" or less given his age in that panel.
I think the next page gives a better view.


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## Yuna (Jan 3, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Actually he was prepared you know, until Minato came in with ??Hirashin lvl 2?? which Minato never showed up before Obito? :ho


Raijin level 2 was just Minato using Hiraishin in an ingenous way. Why would Kurama recognize Obito with a "You!" immediately upon extraction? So what if he'd maybe felt Obito around Kushina before, why the outrage?

And no one has answered the obvious questions:
Why the *flying fuck* would Madara or Zetsu choose Obito over *every single healthy Uchiha alive* to be Madara's legacy (because that's the most common straw grasped at by Tobito theorists: That Madara or Zetsu (or both) chose to implant Obito with Madara's memories)? Obito was a *joke* within the Uchiha clan because he hadn't yet awakened even his one-tomoe Sharingan at age 13.

And you can't just claim it was because they just happened to come upon Obito's crushed body because that is *impossible*. Unless they're *psychic*, they had no way of knowing that would happen. They have to have been stalking him in order to show up the split-second before he got pulverized from the cave-in and whisk him away. And that still leaves the question: Why him?

Why not someone else? Like Fugaku, in order to take over the clan.


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## SonicTron (Jan 3, 2012)

Yuna said:


> Raijin level 2 was just Minato using Hiraishin in an ingenous way. Why would Kurama recognize Obito with a "You!" immediately upon extraction? So what if he'd maybe felt Obito around Kushina before, why the outrage?
> 
> And no one has answered the obvious questions:
> Why the *flying fuck* would Madara or Zetsu choose Obito over *every single healthy Uchiha alive* to be Madara's legacy (because that's the most common straw grasped at by Tobito theorists: That Madara or Zetsu (or both) chose to implant Obito with Madara's memories)? Obito was a *joke* within the Uchiha clan because he hadn't yet awakened even his one-tomoe Sharingan at age 13.
> ...


I have to disagree here.  Clearly something about Obito was special, as Kakashi was able to unlock Mange while not even being a Uchiha himself.  Obito had amazing eyes; the fact that he unlocked them late does not make a difference.  

Look at Sasuke, who failed to have a usable Sharingan until the same age as Obito.  He is expected to be the ultimate champion of the Uchiha with eye power that will surpass even Madara.

Clearly, great eyes or eyes with great potential are not subject to any sort of age requirement.


----------



## Yuna (Jan 3, 2012)

SonicTron said:


> I have to disagree here.  Clearly something about Obito was special, as Kakashi was able to unlock Mange while not even being a Uchiha himself.


How does that make *Obito* special? Also, *how would Madara have known that*?! *No one* knew whether or not Obito would even unlock the Sharingan to begin with since vague manga statements imply not all Uchiha even awaken the base Sharingan. So you're saying... Madara and/or Zetsu are *psychic*?

If they had some kind of magical test to see how strong a Sharingan within someone who hasn't even awakened it is going to become, then again: Why Obito when he got crushed and crippled? Why not, say, Shisui (who had clearly been born at that point)?

Also, even more importantly: If it was just his eyes they wanted, *why not just steal them* and then take over some *other* Uchiha's body and implant his eyes within it (since it's an Uchiha body, it won't matter that it's someone else's eyes and we *know* that Tobi switches Sharingans around)?



SonicTron said:


> Clearly, great eyes or eyes with great potential are not subject to any sort of age requirement.


Except that's not my argument at all.


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## Taijukage (Jan 3, 2012)

The thing with this theory is it requires so much guesswork and "but what if this happened?" and trying desperately to fill in the holes. but there will always be holes. kurama and minato should have been able to figure out this wasn't madara but a snot nosed kid. Tobi would need to be VERY similar to Madara to pass for him and fool everyone, even itachi and kisame.


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## icemanlonewolf (Jan 3, 2012)

Nashima said:


> I dont think you realize the importance of him still wearing the mask. If he was a zetsu clone that looks like an older version of madara all of the suspense kishi has built for the removal of the mask would go down the drain.


As soon as the person behind the mask is revealed the suspense will disappear no matter who it is. The suspense comes from not knowing who is behind the mask not who is behind the mask. 

Now based on who is behind the mask someone might say the reveal was anti-climactic, predictable, or the foreshadowing or lack thereof was poorly done or a number of other positive or negative things about Kishi's choice.

For instance let's say I believed it were Obito and subscribed to this belief for a very long time. If he is revealed to be Obito I might criticize Kishi for being predictable. Now if I was convinced it was Obito from the start I wouldn't have much suspense regarding Tobi's identity to begin with. Regardless of how predictable Kish was though I may or may not think bringing Obito back in the story was a good decision. 

In actuality I don't see why anyone would want Obito back in the story. IMO it ruins a character, makes holes for others, and just overall is not interesting. But hey, to each their own.


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## bleakwinter (Jan 3, 2012)

This was probably explained before but is Tobi was really Obito, wouldn't he have to be like 12-years old? Tobi first appeared when he tried to kidnap baby Naruto and fought Minato. Both Kakashi and Obito were about 12 at that time.


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## Haloman (Jan 3, 2012)

Swagger Wagon said:


> After looking at the DB stats
> Guess which two people have the same height and weight
> Das right, Tobi and Izuna
> 
> /grasping at straws



To be honest, Izuna being Tobi makes the most sense. Regardless of looks, consider how many times Tobi has referred to reclaiming "his" eyes, and that he gave Nagato his eyes? Tobi is a proven liar, yes, but to have a character spout nothing but lies would make for terrible writing. And if you stop and think about it, the fact that Madara took Izuna's eyes would indeed make those his (Izuna's) eyes. The fact that he referred to himself as Madara could be taken to mean that Uchiha Madara was no one without those eyes, and possessing that power is what really makes anyone "Uchiha Madara."

If you temper Tobi's words in this fashion, there's quite a lot that points to him being Izuna.

But to be super honest, I'd love for the Tobito theory to come true so all those Tobito Haters could suck it.


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## Yuna (Jan 3, 2012)

bleakwinter said:


> This was probably explained before but is Tobi was really Obito, wouldn't he have to be like 12-years old? Tobi first appeared when he tried to kidnap baby Naruto and fought Minato. Both Kakashi and Obito were about 12 at that time.


They were at last 13 at the time of Obito's death, which was prior to the Kurama attack.


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## Talis (Jan 3, 2012)

Yuna said:


> Raijin level 2 was just Minato using Hiraishin in an ingenous way. Why would Kurama recognize Obito with a "You!" immediately upon extraction? So what if he'd maybe felt Obito around Kushina before, why the outrage?
> 
> And no one has answered the obvious questions:
> Why the *flying fuck* would Madara or Zetsu choose Obito over *every single healthy Uchiha alive* to be Madara's legacy (because that's the most common straw grasped at by Tobito theorists: That Madara or Zetsu (or both) chose to implant Obito with Madara's memories)? Obito was a *joke* within the Uchiha clan because he hadn't yet awakened even his one-tomoe Sharingan at age 13.
> ...



Why not?
Kishi can simply pull out a reason for that.
And besides out all of Tobi is xx candidates who has a; crushed body? 
Why did Tobi wear a 1 freaking eyeholed orange mask? (inb4 he had 2 Sharingans ommggg, he had a whole f/king lab full of Sharingans which he could simply transplantate one) 
How the hell did a non Uchiha like Kakashi awakened the MS, yes yes training but still it's something which *must* be revealed at some point, maybe at a point when Tobito is revealed?
Why is his name for godssake smiliar to Obito's?
Why does his S/T looks smiliar to Kakashis?
How did Rin died and why? Of course one might say, what has Rin to do with this, it's obvious that Obito's reason to turn into a bad guy was because Rins death. I won't be even surprised if Rin was looking for Obito's death corps but couldn't find it and got killed by some iwa ninjas.

Inbe4 ''Obito was a good boy'', he has the Uchihas hatred curse cycle on his side, so changing from good guy to bad guy shouldn't be impossible. Even Nagato and Itachi/Neji and many more changed their personality.


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## insane111 (Jan 3, 2012)

Someone feel free to explain to me how Obito managed to turn into an old man, despite him and Kakashi being about the same age

 I'll be waiting.


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## Talis (Jan 3, 2012)

insane111 said:


> Someone feel free to explain to me how Obito managed to turn into an old man, despite him and Kakashi being about the same age
> 
> I'll be waiting.


Oh god this does it :rofl.
His left face is full of scars because of that big rock... even a 5 years old kid would have guessed that.


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## insane111 (Jan 3, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Oh god this does it :rofl.
> His left face is full of scars because of that big rock... even a 5 years old kid would have guessed that.



Congratulations that has nothing to do with what I said. How does that explain the right side of his face being a wrinkled old man face?


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## Talis (Jan 3, 2012)

insane111 said:


> Congratulations that has nothing to do with what I said. How does that explain the right side of his face being a wrinkled old man face?



Read my last post on this thread; 

Try to find a counter argument for that and i'll answer it.


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## insane111 (Jan 3, 2012)

I already posted the counter argument. Twice. 
Obito would be age 29-30 right now. Tobi is clearly shown to be an old man.

I don't know how to make it any more clear than that.


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## Lammy (Jan 4, 2012)

Your counter argument isn't clear enough, because it's "clearly" not an old man - only partially and ambiguously at that. Otherwise we wouldn't be here clearly discussing it


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Jan 4, 2012)

Obito being the vessel seems like the best case right now.


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## Babby (Jan 4, 2012)

Tobi is 4th Mizukage. Nuff said.


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## Ice Princess (Jan 5, 2012)

I really believe that if it's going to be someone important that the cast knows, it will be him.


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## MinatoEMS (Jan 5, 2012)

Yuna said:


> Because that makes perfect sense. If Obito survived that cave, why didn't he immediately return to Konoha instead of waiting until Rin died to become Tobi? Or do you think Rin died within hours of escaping that cave? Also, how is it logical Obito would go from happy-go-lucky guy who loves his friends and village to someone who tries to kill his Sensei, his wife and destroy Konoha just because the girl he liked died?
> 
> That's the most contrived villain backstory ever.



Hm sounds like what happened to sasuke when itachi killed his clan.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Jan 5, 2012)

Izuna wanted a new uchiha body after he lost his eyes.
So he wandered blind around mountains for some years and got found by Zetsu who knew his brother and gave him a new body with a really special eye as a gift. Obito's body. Obito's eye could perform the special space movement technique.
At first Izuna kept some of Obito's playful personality but as the time went on he became more and more evil like he was to begin with.
The eye of the moon plan was his brother's 1st plan for world domination, but Madara failed when Hashirama kicked his ass... so Izuna proceeded to complete his brother will... with plan B. After Madara lost to 1st Hokage he gave his eyes to baby Nagato so that Izuna would take them back later... Izuna with Zetsu's help manipulated Nagato and Itachi to complete their plan and collect jinchurikis.
During the process Nagato and Itachi died. Izuna got back the eye he gave to his brother willingly and said "They were mine to begin with"
So now with Obito's space/time jutsu sharingan and with Madara's rinnegan he is about to complete his plan.
You heard Tobi's story here 1st.


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## Lord of Fire (Jan 5, 2012)

This theory still doesn't make sense give up tobi isn't obito


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## Talis (Jan 5, 2012)

^Yeah, Kakashi is fighting against Tobi now just for the lulz, unless Kishi is trolling us.


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## Lord of Fire (Jan 5, 2012)

loool3 said:


> ^Yeah, Kakashi is fighting against Tobi now just for the lulz, unless Kishi is trolling us.



so is Guy you guys use troll too much


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Jan 5, 2012)

Tobitobitobito.
Similar Eye Technique with Kakashi.
Same hairstyle.
He has the opposite sharingan from Kakashi.
Kakashi's there to confirm it.
We never learnt how Rin died.
Do I need to say more...
Izuna in Obito's body.. Its coming...


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## Talis (Jan 5, 2012)

Lord of Fire said:


> so is Guy you guys use troll too much



Yeah. 
You know Gai is also from Obito's time, perhaps he knew even about him.


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## Escargon (Jan 5, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Yeah.
> You know Gai is also from Obito's time, perhaps he knew even about him.



Propably yes. Maybe Gais the best friend of Obito.  Gai would cry.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Jan 5, 2012)

Its kind of an irony. If Obito who was Kakashi's best friend ends up killing Gai(8 gates) his new best friend. Dont ya think ?


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## Yachiru (Jan 5, 2012)

The trolling is delicious


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## ceralux (Jan 6, 2012)

Tobi is *NOT* Obito.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 6, 2012)

How the fuck would tobi be obito if he was around years before Obito was even born?


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## redman919 (Jan 6, 2012)

insane111 said:


> Someone feel free to explain to me how Obito managed to turn into an old man, despite him and Kakashi being about the same age
> 
> I'll be waiting.



Well you see...what had happen was. He unlocked his MS ability which is space/time magic stuff and everytime he uses it, it affects his age. That is how he is an old man now. 


*Spoiler*: __


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## First Tsurugi (Jan 6, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> How the fuck would tobi be obito if he was around years before Obito was even born?



Because he wasn't?

Tobi's earliest appearance was still after Obito's "death". Very shortly after, but after it regardless.

That's why the theory continues to persist.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 6, 2012)

Shortly after is still after. So he's a kid that somehow suddenly turns into an adult


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## Silenius (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm amazed so many people (on either side of this argument) are even bothering to attempt to use any kind of logic at this point. Please, allow me to remind everyone of something from this forum's past.

Don't you guys remember how vehemently the forum clashed about _another_ theory? How so many people argued about the idea that the coffin didn't contain "the true Madara" all those long months ago? All because of the notion that it would lessen the impact of this character's motivation, otherwise. Yet, despite plenty of reasons it shouldn't have even happened, that is now exactly where we stand.

And the truth of the matter is, it _doesn't matter_.

At this point, nobody can honestly say they have a snowball's chance in hell of predicting where this will go with absolute certainty, and I'm certain there are many like me who have stopped caring altogether. Kishi has proven by this point to be trolling his fans at a rate that is fast approaching Tite Kubo levels:

*1.* The existence of the Jyuubi.
*2.* Sharingan _and_ Rinnegan toting Tobi
*3.* "True Madara" in the coffin
*4a.* An Uchiha's Sharingan transforming into the Rinnegan when they acquire Senju DNA
-*4b.* An Uchiha gaining Mokuton abilities after acquiring Senju DNA (an experiment that was NEVER perfected to begin with, and that scores of people died from with SOLE exception to Yamato)
*5.* The Bijuu not only having _personalities_, but also _backstories_, _feelings_, and _identities_, rather than being the entities of unbridled energy and hatred they were once described as. All of which began with the reveal of Hachibi and Killer Bee's friendship ages ago.

At this point, I ask you, why not just let it go? I'm sure there are many like me that are only reading the rest of the manga for closure at this point, anyway, so why continue arguing over something that will only lead to dissatisfaction, no matter how it turns out? Because, as several people have already stated in other topics, you can rest assured that we will ALL feel robbed in some way when the answer is revealed, no matter who gets to say "I told you so."

Anyway, that is just my opinion. I fully intend to accept whatever comes next in this tale. Even if I must do so begrudgingly.

~Silenius~


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## Talis (Jan 6, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Shortly after is still after. So he's a kid that somehow suddenly turns into an adult



Here we go with the height discussion again. 

1: Wanna see the panel where 11-15~ years old Itachi is tall as Kisame which was 20~?

2: Zetsu goo probably changed his seize also.


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## Escargon (Jan 6, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Here we go with the height discussion again.
> 
> 1: Wanna see the panel where 11-15~ years old Itachi is tall as Kisame which was 20~?
> 
> *2: Zetsu goo probably changed his seize also.*



Yup. 

If Zetsu goo change the body, if Madara gave Obito some of his DNA (which is why Tobis half face looks like old Madara) and if theres a seal on the forehead that makes him brainwashed, sure, why not.. i cant wait till they break parts of his mask and see the seal behind it. Lol.


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## Vegeta's Urine (Aug 13, 2012)

Im feeling pretty good right now.


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## BroKage (Aug 14, 2012)

Sock said:


> So this guy is the same age as Kakkashi?


That side of his face is disfigured because a rock fell on it. 

When the other side is revealed, it'll look perfectly young.

Tobito's gonna troll the readers so hard.


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## ueharakk (Aug 14, 2012)

Actually, from my point of view, the Tobi = Obito theory was pretty much disproven as of the last chapter since Tobi said he obtained the eye at the kanabi bridge.  Obito wouldn't have obtained his own eye at the bridge, he would have had it all his life.

Undoubtedly, Tobi is using Obito's eye, but he himself isn't Obito.


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## son_michael (Aug 14, 2012)

ueharakk said:


> Actually, from my point of view, the Tobi = Obito theory was pretty much disproven as of the last chapter since Tobi said he obtained the eye at the kanabi bridge.  Obito wouldn't have obtained his own eye at the bridge, he would have had it all his life.
> 
> Undoubtedly, Tobi is using Obito's eye, but he himself isn't Obito.



he never said he "obtained" the eye. He said he "got" the eye and he got the eye at the same place that obito first awoke his sharingan.

got= unlocked

he unlocked the eye at the battle of kannabi bridge


example of real life application:  "where did you get those wounds?"    "I got them in vietnam"

obviously the dude wouldn't pick up wounds in vietnam. It means he was injured in vietnam....the english language can sometimes be confusing. 




though tobi could also literally mean he found the eye but the above interpretation works as well. However the chapter itself points you in the direction that he's obito by the way he personally talks to kakashi and how kakashi reacts.


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## Lawliet (Aug 14, 2012)

It would be stupid if Naruto's best friend and Kakashi's best friend  are both villains..


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## Rios (Aug 14, 2012)

I already threw this manga out of the window so /careface


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## Escargon (Aug 14, 2012)

oOLawlietOo said:


> It would be stupid if Naruto's best friend and Kakashi's best friend  are both villains..



It would make sense:>


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## BroKage (Aug 14, 2012)

oOLawlietOo said:


> It would be stupid if Naruto's best friend and Kakashi's best friend  are both villains..


Jiraiya and Hiruzen's friends were also villains.


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## Amatsukami (Aug 14, 2012)

Sock said:


> So this guy is the same age as Kakkashi?



Either Kakashi has some great genes or Tobi aged prematurely perhaps due to the strain from using many advanced techniques & incredibly powerful Uchiha kinjutsu/dojutsu. Although straining from those techniques would imply he's a non-Uchiha, which is screwy. He looks like Danzo there, if anything. Hmm.


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## Austin (Aug 14, 2012)

Tobi is an unknown character.


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## Lammy (Sep 3, 2012)

Lammy said:


> The Obito we know pretty much died and became hate filled. Due to brain damage/manipulation, watching too many Zetsu recorded videos ala Clockwork Orange, or Rin's death or all 3.
> 
> Just like Nagato did when Yahiko died, when Gaara did when his uncle died, and Sasuke did when Itachi died etc. Kishimoto's defining story shlick is how any person can go wrong given the circumstance, and how to redeem yourself etc. I don't expect his writing style to change.
> 
> ...




Aaaaaaah why does it feel so good to read the anti-Tobito posts now?


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## Icegaze (Sep 3, 2012)




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## Ricky Sen (Sep 3, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __


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## Vegeta's Urine (Sep 12, 2012)

One last time.


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## Lost on Words (Sep 12, 2012)

ceralux said:


> Tobi is *NOT* Obito.



LOL 

10char


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## Turrin (Sep 12, 2012)

And now it is a reality lol


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## Rosi (Sep 12, 2012)

Shice said:


> That side of his face is disfigured because a rock fell on it.
> 
> When the other side is revealed, it'll look perfectly young.
> 
> Tobito's gonna troll the readers so hard.


:rofl:rofl

that's glorious


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## NW (Sep 12, 2012)

oOLawlietOo said:


> It's so awesome how Kakashi's best friend and Naruto's best friend are both villains.


Fixed. 

You need to accept the epicness of parallels!


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## Enclave (Sep 12, 2012)

My favorite is how I kept going on about how Tobi is a liar and people deciding to ignore that fact.  Who's laughing now eh?  Who's a 100% confirmed lying bastard in the manga?  That would be Tobi!

Never understood why people trusted the word of a villain so absolutely.


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