# Tobirama is Tobi!! The facts are so obvious!!



## Degauss (Oct 21, 2011)

Ok. My first theory and the one that's right. I've thought about this allot since CH.560 but it's not 100% Complete.

*First the physical facts!!*
We've seen part of Tobi's face except for three important spots and a 4th that is partially revealed!! Tobirama has 3 red stripes and a forehead armor similair to yamato. We haven't seen tobi's full face because it would reveal the stripes. And my guess is the forhead armor is to conceal a battle scar, so tobi conceals it with a Bandage now! Either way, it's something important!
And try to imagine he dyed his hair black!!

​*All the links*

- He is the 2nd Hokage and knows allot about madara, so that's why he impersonates him so well.

- He is the only space time ninjutsu user known in Narutoverse beside Minato (/tobi). That explains the swirl teleporting.

- Tobi uses Izanagi. A technique that required Uchiha traits. But also senju traits to make full us of it. Tobirama is senju and formed konoha organisations including Uchiha police. By doing that he, like Danzou, had ways of getting sharingan eyes. He transplanted the eyes in himself.

- He died as a decoy in the 2nd War. He faked his dead and went to Water country. It is unkown if the water country has participated in Ninja wars. The best place to hide. Plus he's a formidable water jutsu user. Seems like the right place to reside. There he formed Akatsuki.

- Uchiha madara said in CH.560: "This is *His* doing..". "his" was in bold. We hardly know any other people then tobirama that madara knows well/good/a little about.

- He was Danzou's teacher. As his former teacher he may have known Danzou's high skill level and chose to watch over sasuke during his battle.

-Tobi knows allot about Konoha. To know so much you need to be from Konoha and have a high position. After Tobirma left he had his ways to get information from Konoha because he formed all the organisations.

That's all i got for now.

*Why Tobirama can't be Tobi*
1 Edo tensei: He was summoned by Oro wich would mean he is dead. But Tobirama created the technique. He's troling everyone with a fake body or someting.

2 Kisame recognised Tobirama as Madara when Tobi showed him his face. This one i don't know how to answer yet.

3 Good guy =evil? --> Bad guy is good? (itachi)

So, is it possible?


----------



## Samehada (Oct 21, 2011)

> 2 Kisame recognised Tobirama as Madara when Tobi showed him his face. This one i don't know how to answer yet.



This simple fact really dissuades any Tobi theories other than the "split-body" theory. Oh that Kisame, always causing troubles


----------



## Convicted playa (Oct 21, 2011)

You are saying something that is just dumb and then you are going against what you are saying  by providing details against it. Some of the things you stated are minorly wrong aswell. 

My opinion : Tobirama=/=Tobi


----------



## Degauss (Oct 21, 2011)

Convicted playa said:


> You are saying something that is just dumb and then you are going against what you are saying  by providing details against it. Some of the things you stated are minorly wrong aswell.
> 
> My opinion : Tobirama=/=Tobi



You're comment has no facts or any kind of input. This is my theory and the reason i post it is because i want feedback i can do something with. That's why i post things that go against my theory. It's not 100%. Read you noob!!!


----------



## Ezekial (Oct 21, 2011)

Lmao tobirama is not tobi


----------



## Blackgallon (Oct 21, 2011)

Why did Tobi ask Kabuto how Edo Tensei works then if he was Tobirama?


----------



## Champion (Oct 21, 2011)

He's sealed in the death god's belly.
But it would be a way to help him measure up to all the other hokages


----------



## God (Oct 21, 2011)

OP I was with you



Blackgallon said:


> Why did Tobi ask Kabuto how Edo Tensei works then if he was Tobirama?



But this is a good question. We know Tobirama was the one who created Edo Tensei, he should've known from the start how it works.

.. Unless he was playing dumb to give Kabuto a false sense of security?

EDIT:



Champion said:


> He's sealed in the death god's belly.
> But it would be a way to help him measure up to all the other hokages



This too dude


----------



## Nep Nep (Oct 21, 2011)

Well first off what are Tobirama, a former Hokage's motives for wanting to take over the world?... 

Second if he was Tobirama then he would likely not need to steal Rinnegan, the Sage can be thought of to be both Uchiha and Senju in one being, if Tobirama gained Sharingan (Uchiha DNA) and then he's already a Senju wouldn't he be able to gain Rinnegan himself in both eyes?  

I digress though what would his motives be for going so bad? Why did he want to take Hashiramas cells? Why is he saying he's Madara, why did he start the Akatsuki? Why does he want all the Bijuu? Why did he attack Konoha? Why did he want to kill the Uchiha, Why would a great Hokage be afraid of little old Kabutomaru? Why didn't he just go back to his office in Konoha and absolutely own all the other Shinobi Villages and force them into peace? He could of used Edo Tensei to bring Hashirama AND Madara back and then what? Who could possibly oppose those three? He could have forced peace like he claims he wants to do now at anytime after Hashirama and Madara died.No Shinobi village could possibly beat Tobirama, Hashirama, and freaking Madara Uchiha, especially not at that point in time! I mean holy crap dude that's overkill, Tobirama could of done whatever the hell he wanted if he had lived, if he wanted peace by force he could of done it easily! Hashirama and Madara are already horribly, terrifyingly powerful enough to obliterate any opposition whatsoever while Tobirama sits on his ass and has a snack. o.o


----------



## First Tsurugi (Oct 21, 2011)

His soul is sealed in the Death God.

It can't be him just like it can't be Madara.


----------



## RickMartin Ben Janardhan (Oct 22, 2011)

Wtf?! hell no!

how in the world did tobirama get the 2st hokage's cells?

why would tobirama want the 1st hokage's cells

why would tobirama want to make an army of 100,000 zetsus?

why would tobirama call himself madara?

how does tobirama have a whole laboratory full of uchiha eyeballs?

how does tobi know about izanagi?

why would tobirama want to take over the world?

Just Face it your theory is Plain STUPID!!!


----------



## Taki (Oct 22, 2011)

Dont be stupid. Im so sick of seeing these half-assed theories all the time.

Read the manga, he's sealed inside the Death god.


----------



## Kenzo (Oct 22, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> His soul is sealed in the Death God.
> 
> *It can't be him just like it can't be Madara.*



This        .


----------



## Kimimaro-kun (Oct 22, 2011)

Degauss said:


> ​




Yeah, I can see both have a forehead, two cheeks and a chin, like... 100% of the characters.

Tobirama was supposed to be a good guy. Why a good guy like him has created an evil jutsu like Edo Tensei is something I still can't understand, but he was portrayed as a complete hero with no ambiguous and less villanous traits, besides being sealed inside the Shinigami.


----------



## aifa (Oct 22, 2011)

Tobirama is a Good boy.


----------



## Ryan2113 (Oct 22, 2011)

Degauss said:


> Ok. My first theory and the one that's right. I've thought about this allot since CH.560 but it's not 100% Complete.
> 
> *First the physical facts!!*
> We've seen part of Tobi's face except for three important spots and a 4th that is partially revealed!! Tobirama has 3 red stripes and a forehead armor similair to yamato. We haven't seen tobi's full face because it would reveal the stripes. And my guess is the forhead armor is to conceal a battle scar, so tobi conceals it with a Bandage now! Either way, it's something important!
> ...



I really like this theory. And even though most people on this thread seem to disagree, i believe your theory holds some weight.

Fact is, i still think it is Kagami and it is very likely that Tobi is going to be one of the members of team Tobirama.

+reps


----------



## Undead (Oct 22, 2011)

One of the lamest theories I keep seeing pop up. The fact that he was sealed by Shiki Fūjin is enough to disprove this theory. Tobirama, a Hokage, was a guy who carried on the Will of Fire belief his brother started. For him to suddenly be a big baddy is just straight out stupid. Kishi making this cannon would be terrible writing, and no amount of explanation will make this move a good one.


----------



## Tobirama Senju (Oct 22, 2011)

hehe and here we go again. but no pal tobirama is not tobi ^.~



> But it would be a way to help him measure up to all the other hokages



he already does measure up to other hokages, but we've seen too little.


----------



## gehad (Oct 22, 2011)

This theory is full of loopholes imo , you can't just claim they're the same because of their face outline similarities and saying that tobi knew everything about Konoha doesn't hint even at him being tobirama it just increases the pool of the people to suspect .


----------



## narutored23 (Oct 22, 2011)

Its kagami the fact he was in tobiramas unit decided to take his. Name thus creating a new identity tobi.


----------



## Kanki (Oct 22, 2011)

What motice does he have?


----------



## Degauss (Oct 22, 2011)

I've read your replies. A lot of negative any Nay sayers, but we have some optimistic people also.

To the nay sayers:



Samehada said:


> This simple fact really dissuades any Tobi theories other than the "split-body" theory. Oh that Kisame, always causing troubles



If Kisame recognised tobi's face as Madara. Then it's a lie because madara is dead and was summoned by Kaboto. So tobi can't be madara and is Tobirama who probably used a genjutsu on Kisame.



Kimimaro-kun said:


> Yeah, I can see both have a forehead, two cheeks and a chin, like... 100% of the characters.
> 
> Tobirama was supposed to be a good guy. Why a good guy like him has created an evil jutsu like Edo Tensei is something I still can't understand, but he was portrayed as a complete hero with no ambiguous and less villanous traits, besides being sealed inside the Shinigami.



This shouldn't be a valid argument people. People saw him as a good guy, but he could have deceived them all, just like Itachi did!!



First Tsurugi said:


> His soul is sealed in the Death God.
> 
> It can't be him just like it can't be Madara.



I agree. But he did create the technique. He may have found a way to hack the technique wich allows a "form" of himself be summoned together with his personality.

Tobirama has experienced allot of fighting and i think he was traumatized by something (maybe his brothers dead).He experienced wars before the founding of the "1 hidden fillages per country" system. He experienced the 2nd Ninja war. This all lead to him believing there is no peace in sight because of the hatred cycle. He then defected and created his "eye of the moon" plan. His will is to realise his brothers dream who desired peace!


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 22, 2011)

Just a minute ago, I was about to agree that it's possible.

Until, I remembered this. 

/thread


----------



## dymlos (Oct 22, 2011)

Degauss said:


> If Kisame recognised tobi's face as Madara. Then it's a lie because madara is dead and was summoned by Kaboto. So tobi can't be madara and is Tobirama who probably used a genjutsu on Kisame.



I agree and also, there is something else that never made any sense.  Kisame knows about the Uchihas _from_ someones retelling of the clan.  If that is the case, Then how does Kisame even know how Madara looks like?

EDIT: I forgot that the thread ended lol.


----------



## Escargon (Oct 22, 2011)

They dont even look like eachother:s

The eyes and he doesnt have any red barbarian or wtf that painting is on his face.

I guess that Tobi got an eye on his forehead.

That dude got sealed.


----------



## ℛei (Oct 22, 2011)

*Tobi*rama-> Tobi obvious answer is obvious


----------



## goldendriger (Oct 22, 2011)

First Edo Tensei worked. And second he segregated Uchiha for one reason or another, but why would he say "Fuck those red eyed bastards..." *5 years later* "Hey guys! ill buy the beer!" Seems too radical of a shift. Like if one morning Sakura woke up and didnt suck...not gonna happen.


----------



## VTsop (Oct 22, 2011)

This thread belongs to me ! ool 
Check it out !
Around a month before !


----------



## Rikudou (Oct 22, 2011)

This is so stupid...
Why would Tobirama, creator of Edo Tensei ask Kabuto how the technique works?


----------



## Degauss (Oct 22, 2011)

Wind Master said:


> Just a minute ago, I was about to agree that it's possible.
> 
> Until, I remembered this.
> 
> /thread



Edo Tensei is i big hole in this theory, but the fact that Tobirama is the creator leaves possibilities open.




Rikudou said:


> This is so stupid...
> Why would Tobirama, creator of Edo Tensei ask Kabuto how the technique works?



Tobi/Tobirama is trolling everyone. Before he acted like he was weak and a comedian in akatsuki. He also lies allot. Why would he not fool kabuto also.



VTsop said:


> This thread belongs to me ! ool
> Check it out !
> Around a month before !



I've looked it up. Nice. You got some interessting responses. Don't worry.
We will prove those Nay Sayers wrong


----------



## Stratogabo (Oct 23, 2011)

Yeah, he can't be Madara because we just saw Madara being summoned by Edo Tensei, but it makes sense that he is the Nidaime Hokage, who was also summoned by Edo Tensei, just because you pointed out that their heads look alike.


----------



## Ezekial (Oct 23, 2011)

Theres more chance of Shizune's scalpel being tobi than Tobirama............ Or Kagami


----------



## -ScRaTcH- (Oct 23, 2011)

Son, sometimes an idea sounds good in your head untill you spit it out, then its just horseshit


----------



## DJ Fukalya (Aug 11, 2012)

I still think Tobi is Obito but I just wanted to say this...

Although it can't be him because the 2nd Hokage was sealed up in the Death's God's belly.

So was the 4th Hokage but he still appeared in Naruto.

Orochimaru was sealed as well but he still came back.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Aug 12, 2012)

lol u feery is so lame hurr.

But seriously, interesting thread, OP.


No one here is the author, so stop being so narrow-minded and go look at the possibilities. We were led to believe Madara Uchiha had been defeated by Hashirama in combat for most of the manga, but that was proven wrong in the recent arc. We were led to believe that Orochimaru had been casted into an infinite illusion inside of the Totsuka sword, yet here he is, unsealed and back into the manga again. For all we know there could have been some way for Tobirama to come back.

For the time being, OP, I'll leave this Tobirama = Tobi theory as an option. At this point in the manga, anything is possible.​


----------



## Blaze Release (Aug 12, 2012)

I've actually thought of a similar theory and even went as far as thinking tobi could be hiruzen, crazy I know. But this is a manga anything is possible


----------



## Namikaze X (Aug 12, 2012)

Nah, Tobi is Izuna.


----------



## iSmile (Aug 12, 2012)

Nice bump...


----------



## General Mael Radec (Aug 12, 2012)

its even stated in his name *TOBI*RAMA, what more facts could you need


----------



## Escargon (Aug 12, 2012)

DJ Fukalya said:


> I still think Tobi is Obito but I just wanted to say this...
> 
> Although it can't be him because the 2nd Hokage was sealed up in the Death's God's belly.
> 
> ...




Im pretty sure theres several ways to survive without a soul in this shity ninja universe.

Nice necro.


----------



## NW (Aug 12, 2012)

It's not Tobirama.

Tobi and Tobirama have completely different eyeshapes.

Different hair color.

And Tobi's eyelid lines are visible, where Tobirama's aren't.

Also, if Tobi had those red marks, we would have seen them in his fight against Konan, as the mask was blown down a little below where those marks would have been.

There would have also been no need for Tobi to ask Kabuto about Edo Tensei if he was Tobirama, because Tobirama invented the technique.

The Japanese characters for Tobi and Tobirama are completely different. So, if Tobirama shortened his name, he'd get "Tobira".

Finally, there's no way that Tobirama could have personally known Kakashi. Don't you think Kakashi would have made a big deal or at least brought it up a few times if he actually met Tobirama?

Bottom line: Tobi =/= Tobirama

/thread


----------

