# marco, ace and straw hats vs aokiji



## badass123 (Aug 23, 2013)

this is post timeskip straw hats and marco

who wins?


----------



## Dexx (Aug 23, 2013)

The team wins.


----------



## Orca (Aug 23, 2013)

Yup. The team wins


----------



## Psychlonius (Aug 23, 2013)

Team 1 wins if EGG can put down Aokiji while others act as cannon fodder. Only the M3 from the straw hats have haki but zoro and sanji havent shown haki powered attacks of luffys level. Marco has nothing except regen and Entei will probably get overpowered.


----------



## blueframe01 (Aug 23, 2013)

Marco alone would give Aokiji a seriously difficult fight. Adding Ace into the fight would give the duo the victory. The strawhats wont even need to be in this fight.


----------



## Psychlonius (Aug 23, 2013)

blueframe01 said:


> Marco alone would give Aokiji a seriously difficult fight. Adding Ace into the fight would give the duo the victory. The strawhats wont even need to be in this fight.



Marco doesn't have attack powerful enough to put him down. He may have fought with admirals but wasn't able to seriously damage them. Also, Akainu Magma>Ace Fire as akainu demonstrated and Aokiji fought him evenly for 10 days before loosing narrowly.


----------



## Admiral Kizaru (Aug 23, 2013)

Kuzan takes this. 


The SH's and Ace are non factors at the moment and Kuzan's Ice would be extremely effective against Marco regen properties. A motivated and serious Kuzan should be capable of taking out Ace and the SH's quickly and then deep freezing the chicken. High difficulty at most for him.

In any case, even combined the team don't have the necessary firepower required to take down someone who was able to last ten days against Sakazuki.


----------



## Urouge (Aug 23, 2013)

The sh and ace are fodders so they get taken out by aokiji before they can contribute anything. Kazan then dismantle the parrot mid high diff


----------



## Vengeance (Aug 23, 2013)

Hard to say, Marco alone should give Kuzan atleast mid difficulty. Ace cancels his ice.
I guess it can go either way.


----------



## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Aug 23, 2013)

Ao Kiji is a top mid tier.
Marco is a top low tier.
Luffy and Ace are high high tiers.
Sanji, Jimbe and Zoro are high mid tiers.

Entei, Giant gatling gun, and the rest attacking together can put Ao Kiji down with extreme difficulty.


----------



## Slenderman (Aug 23, 2013)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Kuzan takes this.
> 
> 
> The SH's and Ace are non factors at the moment and Kuzan's Ice would be extremely effective against Marco regen properties. A motivated and serious Kuzan should be capable of taking out Ace and the SH's quickly and then deep freezing the chicken. High difficulty at most for him.
> ...



I agree with this. Aokiji's ice would be useful against Marco. Hence I say Aokiji high difficulty.


----------



## Psychlonius (Aug 23, 2013)

So... does anyone think Aokiji can tank elephant gattling gun? because Marco's city block level kicks wont do the job.


----------



## Dexx (Aug 23, 2013)

Please don't bring calculations into this. Marco has obviously more powerful attacks in his repertoire, characters are not limited to feats; at least not here.


----------



## Slenderman (Aug 23, 2013)

Psychlonius said:


> So... does anyone think Aokiji can tank elephant gattling gun? because Marco's city block level kicks wont do the job.


 Yes Aokiji can take EGG. Even asking that doesn't make sense. Aokiji fought Akainu for 10 days. Luffy doesn't even have the haki to connect with Aokiji so one EGG will probably do nothing too Aokiji.


----------



## Goomoonryong (Aug 23, 2013)

Team wins Marco could give Kuzan a good fight by himself, Ace powers counter Kuzans and M3 all possess very destructive attacks, they win high/ very high diff.


----------



## trance (Aug 23, 2013)

Marco can give Kuzan high difficulty by himself...Ace is far below either but his powers can counter Kuzan's ice...the SHs are total fodder...

Honestly, it can go either way...


----------



## Orca (Aug 23, 2013)

I don't think ace is far below than either of them. Anyway the team should win this. Even if barely.


----------



## barreltheif (Aug 23, 2013)

Aokiji wins somewhat high diff. Not extreme. Most or all of the SHs are unable to connect with Aokiji. Aokiji is also a terrible matchup for Marco, since regen doesn't help against getting frozen.


----------



## Admiral Kizaru (Aug 23, 2013)

TheNameless345 said:


> Please don't bring calculations into this. Marco has obviously more powerful attacks in his repertoire, characters are not limited to feats; at least not here.



Yeah lets make up powerful fictional attacks because my favourite character looked really shit during the war!! That sounds like a fun exercise in futility!!!

If we're going down that route, I should let you know about Kuzan's hidden power of time manipulation. He can freeze time on a whim, like Guldo in DBZ. Hasn't shown it so far in the manga but because I say he has that power, it must be true.  

He uses that attack right at the start of the battle and then proceeds to casually Ice Time a frozen Marco, SH's and Ace. It's over in 20 seconds. Low difficulty.


----------



## jNdee~ (Aug 23, 2013)

Psychlonius said:


> So... does anyone think Aokiji can tank elephant gattling gun? because Marco's city block level kicks wont do the job.



Yes, He can tank EGG. Not once, not twice, maybe more. He last 1o days against Akainu


----------



## Admiral Kizaru (Aug 23, 2013)

Battousai said:


> Yes, He can tank EGG. Not once, not twice, maybe more. He last 1o days against Akainu



Disgusting that was even a question on here. Just shows you how bad the Admiral underestimation has got on here thanks to the usual down players. 


A guy who lasted 10 days against Sakazuki who's able to deliver a lot worse on a constant basis being taken out by one Elephant gatling gun? Get out.


----------



## jNdee~ (Aug 23, 2013)

Some people even believe Zoro can cut the Admirals into cubes because he has haki


----------



## trance (Aug 23, 2013)

Battousai said:


> Some people even believe Zoro can cut the Admirals into cubes because he has haki



Who? ZFG?


----------



## jNdee~ (Aug 23, 2013)

nah, a different one. can't remember, but it's just in recent threads in the OPBD


----------



## Dexx (Aug 24, 2013)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Yeah lets make up powerful fictional attacks because my favourite character looked really shit during the war!! That sounds like a fun exercise in futility!!!
> 
> If we're going down that route, I should let you know about Kuzan's hidden power of time manipulation. He can freeze time on a whim, like Guldo in DBZ. Hasn't shown it so far in the manga but because I say he has that power, it must be true.
> 
> He uses that attack right at the start of the battle and then proceeds to casually Ice Time a frozen Marco, SH's and Ace. It's over in 20 seconds. Low difficulty.



A characters strength isn't limited to his feats. Logically infering, he is capable of much, much more than what his feats suggest seeing how he was portrayed as Kizaru's equal during the war, and was flat out compared to Emperors. 

Or do you support the notion that Fujitora is limited to meteors that can easily be cut by Doflamingo? That Garp's punches can only bruise Marco? Or that Kizaru can't hurt Marco at all?


----------



## barreltheif (Aug 24, 2013)

But Marco wasn't "portrayed" as equal to Kizaru. That's just something that fans made up. 

Marco was in a desperate battle in which his captain died. Obviously, Marco was not holding back. When he kicked Kizaru and Aokiji and failed to do damage, he was not holding back. When his attacks failed to even connect with Akainu, he was not holding back. When he was outmaneuvered and handcuffed by a vice admiral, he was not holding back. When he, Vista, and the rest of the commanders together couldn't even stop Akainu from magmafisting Curiel, he was not holding back.

Marco is not as strong as an admiral. He can give an admiral a fight, he can hold one off, but in the end he's not on their level.


----------



## Dexx (Aug 24, 2013)

> But Marco wasn't "portrayed" as equal to Kizaru.



Yes, he was. Both were written in mirror scenes making sarcastic remarks and quipping about each other's attacks.



> Marco was in a desperate battle in which his captain died. Obviously, Marco was not holding back. When he kicked Kizaru and Aokiji and failed to do damage, he was not holding back.



Yes, he was. at the beginning of the war, nobody was going all-out. Whitebeard was mocking Kizaru's lasers, and so was Marco. Then there's also the fact that Kizaru blocked Marco's attack similarly to how Akainu blocked Whitebeard's attack; he did not tank it, nor did he shrug it off. 

As for Aokiji's case, it's absolutely similar to this. 





The above scenes were only written in more detail. Luffy gets a clear hit on Rob Lucci and sends him flying; the latter gets up without any visible injuries whatsoever. Is this enough to say that Luffy can't hurt Lucci? 



> When his attacks failed to even connect with Akainu, he was not holding back



His haki failed once. Big deal. 



> When he was outmaneuvered and handcuffed by a vice admiral, he was not holding back



We're clearly not reading the same manga then. He rushed to aid his father and let his guard down and a vice admiral came up from behind and chained him.



> When he, Vista, and the rest of the commanders together couldn't even stop Akainu from magmafisting Curiel, he was not holding back.



Reread the chapters. Akainu did not fight all the Whitebeard commanders at the time.  you can see both Fossa and Akainu. I marked the former. See the distance between them ? This was exactly one panel after Akainu defeated Curiel. , we get a clear cut on Akainu. Oh boy, Marco and Vista must be a pain in the ass to deal with, with their invisibility powers, amirite ?



> Marco is not as strong as an admiral. He can give an admiral a fight, he can hold one off, but in the end he's not on their level.



Never said he was, althought I do believe that he could give Kizaru extreme difficulty.


----------



## barreltheif (Aug 24, 2013)

TheNameless345 said:


> Yes, he was. Both were written in mirror scenes making sarcastic remarks and quipping about each other's attacks.




Akainu and WB were quipping about each other's attacks. Mihawk and Vista were also making small talk. Kizaru would be making sarcastic remarks even if he were fighting Roger and prime WB at the same time. It is possible for unequals to quip about each other's attacks and make sarcastic remarks.





> Yes, he was. at the beginning of the war, nobody was going all-out. Whitebeard was mocking Kizaru's lasers, and so was Marco. Then there's also the fact that Kizaru blocked Marco's attack similarly to how Akainu blocked Whitebeard's attack; he did not tank it, nor did he shrug it off.
> 
> As for Aokiji's case, it's absolutely similar to this.
> 
> ...




Marco can hurt Aokiji. If Aokiji stands there for hours, and Marco continually kicks him, Aokiji will be hurt. The problem is that while one solid attack from Marco won't do much of anything to Aokiji, a solid attack from Aokiji will finish Marco. We saw the same thing with Jozu vs Aokiji, except that Jozu actually did a small amount of damage to Aokiji, unlike Marco.




> Reread the chapters. Akainu did not fight all the Whitebeard commanders at the time.  you can see both Fossa and Akainu. I marked the former. See the distance between them ? This was exactly one panel after Akainu defeated Curiel. , we get a clear cut on Akainu. Oh boy, Marco and Vista must be a pain in the ass to deal with, with their invisibility powers, amirite ?




That was a few pages after Akainu was shown having defeated Curiel, not one panel. You're simply mistaken.


----------



## Dexx (Aug 24, 2013)

> Akainu and WB were quipping about each other's attacks. Mihawk and Vista were also making small talk. Kizaru would be making sarcastic remarks even if he were fighting Roger and prime WB at the same time. It is possible for unequals to quip about each other's attacks and make sarcastic remarks.



You don't get the point, do you ? Them quipping about each others attacks is not the basis of the argument. But to put it simply; Kizaru teleported and attacked Whitebeard. Marco blocked the attack without any damage whatsoever and sarcastically claimed that it hurt him. Kizaru called him out on lying. Marco proceeded to attack and kicked Kizaru, to which the admiral responded by blocking his kick with his forearm. Kizaru claimed that the attack was effective, and this time Marco was the one who called _him _ out on lying. Everything in this exchange screams that they're equals, or at least very, very close. I'm leaning towards the latter, but that is irrelevant. 



> Marco can hurt Aokiji. If Aokiji stands there for hours, and Marco continually kicks him, Aokiji will be hurt. The problem is that while one solid attack from Marco won't do much of anything to Aokiji, a solid attack from Aokiji will finish Marco. We saw the same thing with Jozu vs Aokiji, except that Jozu actually did a small amount of damage to Aokiji, unlike Marco.



I for one, believe that Marco can hurt Aokiji in a fight. The admiral needed a very, very clear opening to bring down Jozu, and he won't get such an opportunity against Marco unless Whitebeard is involved again. However, I believe Aokiji would sustain less damage than his colleagues in a battle against him due to, as you mentioned, the nature of his ability, and his capability of putting down the phoenix with one solid hit. This is how I see a battle between them; the two are evenly matched for the most part, both attack each other, but neither fighter sustains any major injury. This goes on for days, until both are very fatigued, and damaged (but not by a very large amount). As the fight is coming to an end, Aokiji is slowly starting to gain the upper hand. At one point, Aokiji gets one solid hit off, which puts down Marco for good. I see Whitebeard vs Admirals playing out in a similar fashion, the battle will only be shorter due to the nature of Whitebeard's fruit. 



> That was a few pages after Akainu was shown having defeated Curiel, not one panel. You're simply mistaken.



More like one, and in that one panel, he decided to shift away from Akainu, and showed us Kizaru attacking the submarine. Akainu fought the Whitebeard commanders alone, that isn't debatable. The outcome and time however, that is. He was never indicated to be winning, and one thing that has to be noted is that only Marco and Vista presented a legitimate threat at the time.


----------



## barreltheif (Aug 24, 2013)

TheNameless345 said:


> More like one, and in that one panel, he decided to shift away from Akainu, and showed us Kizaru attacking the submarine. Akainu fought the Whitebeard commanders alone, that isn't debatable. The outcome and time however, that is. He was never indicated to be winning, and one thing that has to be noted is that only Marco and Vista presented a legitimate threat at the time.




It wasn't one panel. It was 16 panels. On page 8 of chapter 579, Akainu is shown to have defeated Curiel, and on page 11, Fossa has backed up several meters away from Akainu. The fact that Akainu was unharmed while one of the commanders had already taken severe damage indicates that Akainu had the advantage.




> I for one, believe that Marco can hurt Aokiji in a fight. The admiral needed a very, very clear opening to bring down Jozu, and he won't get such an opportunity against Marco unless Whitebeard is involved again. However, I believe Aokiji would sustain less damage than his colleagues in a battle against him due to, as you mentioned, the nature of his ability, and his capability of putting down the phoenix with one solid hit. This is how I see a battle between them; the two are evenly matched for the most part, both attack each other, but neither fighter sustains any major injury. This goes on for days, until both are very fatigued, and damaged (but not by a very large amount). As the fight is coming to an end, Aokiji is slowly starting to gain the upper hand. At one point, Aokiji gets one solid hit off, which puts down Marco for good. I see Whitebeard vs Admirals playing out in a similar fashion, the battle will only be shorter due to the nature of Whitebeard's fruit.




The idea that Aokiji would fight Marco for days without getting in a good hit is completely ridiculous. Akainu vs Aokiji lasted for 10 days because both Akainu and Aokiji would be screwed if their opponent got in a good hit, and so they can't fight too aggressively. Against Marco, Aokiji doesn't need to play it safe. Aokiji will go in to touch Marco, he'll get kicked a few times and they'll have a scuffle, and then Aokiji will touch Marco and freeze him, and it'll be over.




> You don't get the point, do you ? Them quipping about each others attacks is not the basis of the argument. But to put it simply; Kizaru teleported and attacked Whitebeard. Marco blocked the attack without any damage whatsoever and sarcastically claimed that it hurt him. Kizaru called him out on lying. Marco proceeded to attack and kicked Kizaru, to which the admiral responded by blocking his kick with his forearm. Kizaru claimed that the attack was effective, and this time Marco was the one who called _him _ out on lying. Everything in this exchange screams that they're equals, or at least very, very close. I'm leaning towards the latter, but that is irrelevant.




The fact that Kizaru didn't damage Marco is a feat for Marco. It shows that Marco has great regeneration powers. The fact that Marco didn't damage Kizaru is an anti-feat for Marco. It shows that an attack from Marco isn't enough to hurt an admiral (though enough attacks might be). The fact that Marco and Kizaru made sarcastic comments doesn't show much about their power beyond what the feats already show. It shows more about their personalities.


----------



## Captain Altintop (Aug 24, 2013)

Aokiji beats Marco very high diff. 
Aokiji beats Ace mid diff. (Fire > Ice makes this mid. diff)
Aokiji beats the M3 (1v1) low diff.

He can't beat even Marco + Ace imo, gnoring the M3/strawhats.
If Marco temporary stalemates Aokiji and Ace using Entei from behind, this could be very troublesome. Not to mention that he has incredible stamina, but it won't be enough here.

Team takes this high to very high diff.


----------



## Dexx (Aug 24, 2013)

> It wasn't one panel. It was 16 panels. On page 8 of chapter 579, Akainu is shown to have defeated Curiel, and on page 11, Fossa has backed up several meters away from Akainu. The fact that Akainu was unharmed while one of the commanders had already taken severe damage indicates that Akainu had the advantage.



False. , Akainu defeats Curiel,  Kizaru attacks the submarine, , we see Fossa and Akainu distanced. Also, you're reading way too much into it. Curiel simply wasn't powerful enough, and was put in place. He can't even touch Akainu. Even if he _was_ gaining the upper hand, it hardly matters, because  panel is evidence that it's not commanders vs Akainu. It's commanders vs Akainu + half of Marineford. 



> The idea that Aokiji would fight Marco for days without getting in a good hit is completely ridiculous. Akainu vs Aokiji lasted for 10 days because both Akainu and Aokiji would be screwed if their opponent got in a good hit, and so they can't fight too aggressively. Against Marco, Aokiji doesn't need to play it safe. Aokiji will go in to touch Marco, he'll get kicked a few times and they'll have a scuffle, and then Aokiji will touch Marco and freeze him, and it'll be over



Do you know what a _good_ hit is ? A fighter of Marco's caliber would not allow Aokiji to freeze him that fast. He'd put up a damn good fight, at least spanning over a day, if not more. 



> The fact that Kizaru didn't damage Marco is a feat for Marco. It shows that Marco has great regeneration powers. The fact that Marco didn't damage Kizaru is an anti-feat for Marco. It shows that an attack from Marco isn't enough to hurt an admiral (though enough attacks might be). The fact that Marco and Kizaru made sarcastic comments doesn't show much about their power beyond what the feats already show. It shows more about their personalities



It's not just feats, feats, feats. Are you seriously ignoring the symbolism within this scene ? The fact that the two were written in mirror scenes ? Literally, as counterparts of each other ? That's like saying that Akainu standing in front of the commanders alone "means nothing" and that he was about to get stomped, but luckily was saved by back-up ....


----------



## jNdee~ (Aug 24, 2013)

Marco won't push an admiral past high-diff. Hell, I already doubt if he can push one into a high diff.


----------



## RF (Aug 24, 2013)

He was essentially put in the same boat as Yonko

It would be stupid if he couldn't give an admiral at least high difficulty. And I agree with extreme for Kizaru.


----------



## jNdee~ (Aug 24, 2013)

The only problem he could really give them is his regen, other than that, he's pretty screwed/


----------



## RF (Aug 24, 2013)

Not really. The admirals are only guaranteed to have better firepower, otherwise they're pretty even. He's no slouch in that department either, and in a prolonged battle, you can bet that his kicks are going to hurt. Even if you do think that admirals can just loltank his kicks, you can't disregard his phoenix claws.


----------



## Urouge (Aug 24, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> He was essentially put in the same boat as Yonko
> 
> It would be stupid if he couldn't give an admiral at least high difficulty. And I agree with extreme for Kizaru.



You continue with your kiz downplay I see. You might aswell say that he can beat aswell  it's probably your next step into downplay the yellow monkey. You used to say high diff not long ago.


----------



## jNdee~ (Aug 24, 2013)

His Phoenix claws didn't do damage to Akainu


----------



## RF (Aug 24, 2013)

> You continue with your kiz downplay I see. You might aswell say that he can beat aswell  it's probably your next step into downplay the yellow monkey. You used to say high diff not long ago.



Uhm, I always thought that Kizaru was a notch weaker than the other 2. 



> His Phoenix claws didn't do damage to Akainu



Because his haki didn't connect. 

Now imagine he attacks him again and connects.


----------



## Urouge (Aug 24, 2013)

Prove it 

just because he didnt fight for the ra position it doesn't mean that he's weaker. even if he was it wouldn't be enough for him to beat marco with extrem diff and the others high diff.


----------



## Typhon (Aug 24, 2013)

Urouge said:


> You continue with your kiz downplay I see. You might aswell say that he can beat aswell  it's probably your next step into downplay the yellow monkey. You used to say high diff not long ago.



Well I see where he is coming from though. Marco would definitely have an easier time with Kizaru then the other two just based off of match ups. Marco can regenerate from the laser damage, but he would have a harder time doing the same from Akainu and Aokiji's attacks since one is continuous damage while the other completely freezes. I disagree with Kizaru beating him extreme diff. On a good day, it's high diff at best and that's because Marco would force Kizaru to bust out his strongest light techniques to bypass the regeneration.


----------



## RF (Aug 24, 2013)

Despite me disagreeing with Omnation's ranking of Marco, he hit the nail on the head. Kizaru's ability is just less suited against Marco. Then add to the fact that he's probably weaker than Akainu, and there you have it.

And for the record, I always thought Marco could give Akainu _very_ high difficulty.


----------



## Gin (Aug 24, 2013)

Aokiji high diff


----------



## jNdee~ (Aug 24, 2013)

I wonder why his haki didn't connect


----------



## RF (Aug 24, 2013)

The implication being that Marco failed to hit him because he is too weak is inconsistent, seeing how Whitebeard, the strongest man in the world failed to hit Aokiji and Kizaru, the two admirals that Marco hit, yet slammed Akainu to the ground when it came down to it.


----------



## jNdee~ (Aug 24, 2013)

WB only slammed Akainu into the ground when he was in Apeshit mode. I viewed old sick WB (Non-bloodlusted and post-stab) as possibly a beatable for an Admiral.


----------



## RF (Aug 24, 2013)

Then there's no point in debating this any further. Your admiral dicksucking is past any reasonable limit.


----------



## trance (Aug 24, 2013)

Says the guy named after an Admiral.  

I kid, I kid...


----------



## RF (Aug 24, 2013)

who are y-

oh wait

What the fuck man, Trance was a great name


----------



## trance (Aug 24, 2013)

I went back to my roots...was Mr E. Man long before I was Trance. 

Anyway, SHs are fodder. Ace is alot weaker than Kuzan but can counter his powers (even though Kuzan's lulice can _apparently_ counter Sakazuki's lolmagma) and Marco can push Kuzan to high difficulty by himself.

Can go either way but gonna lean towards the duo...


----------



## jNdee~ (Aug 24, 2013)

Nope, I just realized that WB's stompage of an Admiral wasn't even enough to put him down for a day


----------



## RF (Aug 24, 2013)

What? Dude, Akainu was out of commission and on Whitebeard's mercy at the time, he could of pretty much ended his life.


----------



## trance (Aug 24, 2013)

Actually, Sakazuki was still conscious after tanking that island splitter...

If he was unconscious, he would've fallen in the water and died...


----------



## RF (Aug 24, 2013)

Yeah, obviously, he was cursing Whitebeard while falling down the fissure


----------



## trance (Aug 24, 2013)

Still tanked it without passing out like a boss...well, as much as one can be after getting pounded by an old man on his death bed.


----------



## RF (Aug 24, 2013)

Well yeah, but I don't quite understand what Battousai tried to point out with that argument 

It's not like Whitebeard couldn't have quaked him once or twice more


----------



## Harard (Aug 24, 2013)

Is Marco really underrated to the point that people think the team loses this? Really? LOL.


----------



## RF (Aug 24, 2013)

Didn't you know Harard ? Marco can at best give the admirals a scratch before they stomp him just like they did in the manga


----------



## Lolicon Hunter (Aug 24, 2013)

It's hard to say, we don't know the extent of Marco's powers.
In Marineford, Marco was portrayed as close to or roughly admiral level based on his encounters with the admirals.
The gap is small, and it can be closed by adding in Ace and the SHs. But here's where it gets tricky. If the SHs and Ace have no way of hurting Aokiji due to his superior Haki, then they become non-factors in this fight, even though combined with Marco they have the power of an admiral.


----------



## Bansai (Aug 24, 2013)

Marco could already give him an extremely hard fight. Letting Ace, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Franky, Robin, Brook, Nami, Chopper and Usopp join in makes it impossible for Aokiji to win this.


----------



## Orca (Aug 24, 2013)

Marco and ace can both give aokiji a good fight on their own. This is going to be either a loss or ext diff for kuzan.


----------



## trance (Aug 24, 2013)

Emporio Ivankov said:


> Marco could already give him an extremely hard fight. Letting Ace, *Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Franky, Robin, Brook, Nami, Chopper and Usopp* join in makes it impossible for Aokiji to win this.



The bolded are fodder.

But I agree that the flaming duo can probably pull off a win with extreme difficulty, though.


----------



## Admiral Kizaru (Aug 24, 2013)

The portrayal argument is extremely weak mainly because it picks and chooses selective moments and then applies a huge dose of fan interpretation (read bias and fanboyism) to paint a flawed illustration of where characters stand. 

Essentially all it has become on the OL is a tool for butthurt fans of a character to ignore manga feats and evidence presented by Oda in order to further the cause of their favourite character. 

Does it have a place in a debate? Yes to an extent, but it's way down in the pecking order especially compared actual manga panels. That completely supersedes it in any debate. 

Borsalino had interactions with Whitebeard during the war, *quipping*(lol) with him during the war about Luffy, chatting shit to his face, clashing with him very briefly in the plaza during which he managed to push down on his bisento and laser him through the chest. I could just as easily make a case that Borsalino and Whitebeard are equals in strength based on this portrayal but I wouldn't because that would fly in the face of all the other evidence presented by Oda. It's sad to see that other fans of other characters can't be an mature and realistic as I can here. 



barreltheif said:


> But Marco wasn't "portrayed" as equal to Kizaru. That's just something that fans made up.
> 
> Marco was in a desperate battle in which his captain died. Obviously, Marco was not holding back. When he kicked Kizaru and Aokiji and failed to do damage, he was not holding back. When his attacks failed to even connect with Akainu, he was not holding back. When he was outmaneuvered and handcuffed by a vice admiral, he was not holding back. When he, Vista, and the rest of the commanders together couldn't even stop Akainu from magmafisting Curiel, he was not holding back.
> 
> Marco is not as strong as an admiral. He can give an admiral a fight, he can hold one off, but in the end he's not on their level.



Spot on. It's amazing how those who talk about nothing but "portrayal" then conveniently ignore that Oda decided to have Marco wrestled to the ground and shackled up by a Vice Admiral of all people.

How's that for portrayal then? Oda decides to use a VA to take care of Marco. Does that mean that Marco is portrayed equal to Onigumo then?





Ultimately the fact of the matter is that based on the evidence presented at Marineford, the logical sensible conclusion to draw is that Marco and the commanders were on a class below the real major players during the war (the likes of Mihawk, Admirals, Shanks and WB). At best he can give these guys a good battle but to push them to their limits, no way. He loses every single time.

Adding Ace and the SH's who don't have the tools to be nothing more than just mildly annoying to Kuzan at this stage isn't going to change anything. Kuzan still prevails here. High difficulty but the fight is his.


----------



## Urouge (Aug 24, 2013)

spot on kiz spot on. he's strong enough to give the admirals and younkou captains a hard fight but not strong enough to push them to their limits. marco is the only threat here the rest are fodder that will get done by a serious ice age.


----------



## jNdee~ (Aug 24, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> What? Dude, Akainu was out of commission and on Whitebeard's mercy at the time, he could of pretty much ended his life.



It's funny because it's WB's fault that Akainu was still alive, he was the one to cause the crack on the ground.


----------



## JoJo (Aug 24, 2013)

Ace and the SH's get blitzed and one-shotted while Marco gives Aokiji a good fight but ultimately loses.


----------



## RF (Aug 25, 2013)

> The portrayal argument is extremely weak mainly because it picks and chooses selective moments



Funnily, you're the one person bringing up selective reading and misinterpretation of portrayal when the basis of your arguments is how Akainu has been decipted to be standing alone against the Whitebeard pirates, which becomes nothing unless we draw the portrayal out of the scene. I can just as easily call your interpretation wrong and say that Akainu was about to get stomped before he received back-up. What now ?



> fan interpretation (read bias and fanboyism) to paint a flawed illustration of where characters stand.



It really isn't fan interpretation, it can't possibly get clearer than it is. Two people blocking each others respective attacks wihout any significant damage whatsoever and then quipping about it in a similar fashion is indicative of equality, or near-equality. Why the bloody hell would Oda draw such mirror scenes between characters if they aren't even close in power ? To misguide is ? Please, you're just biased and that's been known for a veeery long while. 



> Essentially all it has become on the OL is a tool for butthurt fans of a character to ignore manga feats and evidence presented by Oda in order to further the cause of their favourite character.



Portrayal and hype > feats



> Borsalino had interactions with Whitebeard during the war, quipping(lol) with him during the war about Luffy, chatting shit to his face, clashing with him very briefly in the plaza during which he managed to push down on his bisento and laser him through the chest. I could just as easily make a case that Borsalino and Whitebeard are equals in strength based on this portrayal but I wouldn't because that would fly in the face of all the other evidence presented by Oda. It's sad to see that other fans of other characters can't be an mature and realistic as I can here.



You don't understand the difference between straight down feats and portrayal, do you ? One-upping a heavily injured Whitebeard isn't indicating of equality. If that were the case, half of the characters in the manga would be regarded as equals.



> Kizaru teleported and attacked Whitebeard. Marco blocked the attack without any damage whatsoever and sarcastically claimed that it hurt him. Kizaru called him out on lying. Marco proceeded to attack and kicked Kizaru, to which the admiral responded by blocking his kick with his forearm. Kizaru claimed that the attack was effective, and this time Marco was the one who called him out on lying.



This, however is. Any half-objective poster will tell you so. Even the section's best such as Coruscation will agree. Feats are your only saving grace. Marco not having enough feats is the only reason why you can spout so much obnoxious crap about the character and still get away with it. 



> It's amazing how those who talk about nothing but "portrayal" then conveniently ignore that Oda decided to have Marco wrestled to the ground and shackled up by a Vice Admiral of all people.



Wrestled ? Hardly so. Marco was rushing to Whitebeard, wasn't on-guard and Onigumo appeared from behind chaining him. 





> How's that for portrayal then? Oda decides to use a VA to take care of Marco. Does that mean that Marco is portrayed equal to Onigumo then?



Uhm, no ? The only thing that scene portrays is that a Vice Admiral can take advantage of the situation to chain Marco. I mean, what exactly is it, that suggests in that scene, that they're equal ? 

Even then, catching people off-guard has been no big deal ever since Crocodile caught the deity Fleet Admiral Akainu off-guard and sliced through him. 



> It's sad to see that other fans of other characters can't be an mature and realistic as I can here


----------



## trance (Aug 25, 2013)

*@Sakazuki*

What up with the scans of them as kids?


----------



## RF (Aug 25, 2013)

Figure out yourself 

Take a good look at Kizaru

Then take a good look at Marco


----------



## trance (Aug 25, 2013)

They just had similar interests as kids...


----------



## RF (Aug 25, 2013)

Battousai said:


> It's funny because it's WB's fault that Akainu was still alive, he was the one to cause the crack on the ground.



What kind of grasping at straws is this ? Whitebeard neglected to pursue due to plot, or are you seriously denying that he could have killed him ?


----------



## trance (Aug 25, 2013)

Ooook...

If you say so...


----------



## RF (Aug 25, 2013)

Not like I'm using it as some sort of basis

I said



> it just strengthens my case



Though it is pretty silly to use it, so I edited. =I


----------



## trance (Aug 25, 2013)

Almost everyone knows Marco is close to the Admiral's strength class...

So, why you letting AK get to ya?


----------



## RF (Aug 25, 2013)

It's divided.

Many people think Marco can't even hurt them

I'm just trying to restore some dignity to the character, that's all


----------



## Lord Melkor (Aug 25, 2013)

Marco can give a high difficulty fight to Aokiji in my book. Ace, Luffy and Zoro are a level below Marco or a little below, so they could make a difference.


----------



## Orca (Aug 25, 2013)

I agree with portrayal and hype > Feats.


----------



## trance (Aug 25, 2013)

In cases where portrayal and hype is all we have, yes.


----------



## Orca (Aug 25, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> In cases where portrayal and hype is all we have, yes.



Not necessarily. Actually it's a bit more complicated. E.g sometimes people say that 'A' can destroy an island whereas 'B' cannot. Therefore A is stronger than 'B'. That isn't always true.

Or sometimes people say 'A' has been shown to destroy an island whereas 'B' has not been shown to do the same. And they think 'A' is stronger than 'B'. Again I don't agree with this.

I mean 'A' could be stronger in above cases depending on context and portrayal. But this is why I rank characters based on portrayal.


----------



## jNdee~ (Aug 25, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> What kind of grasping at straws is this ? Whitebeard neglected to pursue due to plot, or are you seriously denying that he could have killed him ?



I don't disagree that WB could've killed him, but saying that he was save plot is bullshit. Since Plot is everything in the manga, all that've have lived and died are because of plot.


----------



## Harard (Aug 25, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> The bolded are fodder.
> 
> But I agree that the flaming duo can probably pull off a win with extreme difficulty, though.



The rest of the SHs are fodder, but Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji are still strong enough to help Ace distract Aokiji for Marco. Remember, just a second of distraction is still enough time for Marco to put a hurt on Aokiji.

I've got a better question. Let's say we replace Marco for Aokiji, and we replace Aokiji for Whitebeard. Do you guys think Whitebeard would defeat Aokiji, Ace, and the Strawhats?


----------



## trance (Aug 25, 2013)

Harard said:


> I've got a better question. Let's say we replace Marco for Aokiji, and we replace Aokiji for Whitebeard. Do you guys think Whitebeard would defeat Aokiji, Ace, and the Strawhats?



Whitebeard beat Ace down in his sleep...

The SHs are fodder...

Kuzan could give him high-extreme difficulty but he'd go down in the end...


----------



## Harard (Aug 25, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> Whitebeard beat Ace down in his sleep...
> 
> The SHs are fodder...
> 
> Kuzan could give him high-extreme difficulty but he'd go down in the end...



Ace was also a lot weaker back then, and was basically a rookie. He was a whoooooole lot stronger back when he was defeated by Blackbeard. The same goes for the Strawhats. Current Luffy would literally defeat pre-skip Luffy in his sleep.

Just one second of distraction is all that's needed for Aokiji to have the advantage, nothing more.


----------



## RF (Aug 25, 2013)

I'm not sure about Ace being so stronger than his rookie version. In his rookie days he and Jinbe were dead equals, and he still lost to Blackbeard decisively. I don't think Jinbe would go down to Blackbeard without putting up a damn good fight.


----------



## Harard (Aug 25, 2013)

Nah, 2-3 years makes a big difference, especially for someone with Ace's potential. It'd make no sense for someone like Ace to only be slightly stronger than his rookie version.


----------



## trance (Aug 25, 2013)

Harard said:


> Ace was also a lot weaker back then, and was basically a rookie. He was a whoooooole lot stronger back when he was defeated by Blackbeard. The same goes for the Strawhats. Current Luffy would literally defeat pre-skip Luffy in his sleep.



He likely did become alot stronger but...

Ace was beaten by Teach...

Teach was stomped by WB on his deathbed...



> Just one second of distraction is all that's needed for Aokiji to have the advantage, nothing more.



Kuzan already tried to freeze WB and failed.


----------



## Orca (Aug 25, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> He likely did become alot stronger but...
> 
> Ace was beaten by Teach...
> 
> ...



The same WB wrecked an admiral. So teach was no weakling. Ace has nothing to be ashamed of by getting beaten by teach.


----------



## trance (Aug 25, 2013)

Luffee said:


> The same WB wrecked an admiral. So teach was no weakling. Ace has nothing to be ashamed of by getting beaten by teach.



Not the point I'm making.

A nearly dead WB stomped Teach who defeated Ace, so WB as he was prior to the War, would godstomp Ace...

Ace is simply fodder to WB just as Teach was...


----------



## blueframe01 (Aug 25, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> Not the point I'm making.
> 
> A nearly dead WB stomped Teach who defeated Ace, so WB as he was prior to the War, would godstomp Ace...
> 
> Ace is simply fodder...



A nearly dead WB almost killed Akainu with 2 blows, and would have done so had Akainu not fallen down under. So no, that doesn't make look Teach look bad at all.


----------



## RF (Aug 25, 2013)

Whitebeard was severely weaker when beating Teach, no doubt. He was running on rage when he blindsided Akainu and he took out all the rage in one punch a split second after losing half of his face, so the injury couldn't have possibly made any large impact on him at the time, if any. When he faced Teach, he already spent 10 minutes without a good chunck of his brain so yeah...


----------



## trance (Aug 25, 2013)

blueframe01 said:


> A nearly dead WB almost killed Akainu with 2 blows, and would have done so had Akainu not fallen down under. So no, that doesn't make look Teach look bad at all.



Except WB used up most of the power he had left against Akainu...


----------



## Orca (Aug 25, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:
			
		

> A nearly dead WB stomped Teach who defeated Ace, so WB as he was prior to the War, would godstomp Ace...



You said that WB on his deathbed stomped teach. Whereas the same WB wrecked akainu. And no he didn't use all his energy against Akainu. And he was just as pissed against teach as he was against akainu.

To top all of that, WB himself said that Teach's biggest weakness is his carelessness. Which we know is true.

So ace losing to teach isn't a bad thing. Infact in my opinion if you replace Ace with any of the WB commanders against teach, the result would have been the same except maybe marco.


----------



## barreltheif (Aug 25, 2013)

The point is not that WB fodderizing Teach makes Teach fodder; the point is that it makes Teach fodder *to WB*.


----------



## Orca (Aug 25, 2013)

barreltheif said:


> The point is not that WB fodderizing Teach makes Teach fodder; the point is that it makes Teach fodder *to WB*.



True. Especially against a pissed WB.


----------



## Harard (Aug 25, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> Not the point I'm making.
> 
> A nearly dead WB stomped Teach who defeated Ace, so WB as he was prior to the War, would godstomp Ace...
> 
> Ace is simply fodder to WB just as Teach was...



No one said anything different.


----------



## trance (Aug 25, 2013)

Luffee said:


> True. Especially against a pissed WB.



Seriously? I said that in my second post. 

And he did use put most of the strength he had left in that island splitter as the one he used against Teach paled in comparison even though he was still bloodlusted...


----------



## Orca (Aug 25, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> Seriously? I said that in my second post.
> 
> And he did use put most of the strength he had left in that island splitter as the one he used against Teach paled in comparison even though he was still bloodlusted...



You implied that teach was weakling. That's all.


----------



## trance (Aug 25, 2013)

Luffee said:


> You implied that teach was weakling. That's all.





Mr. E Man said:


> Ace is simply fodder to WB just as Teach was...



I meant exactly what I said...


----------



## eyeknockout (Aug 25, 2013)

aokiji sounds like the worst match up marco could possibly get considering marco is a close range fighter and can't regen from being frozen. against other admirals like kizaru and akainu I think marco would lose high diff, but against his perfect counter aokiji I think marco would lose mid diff. 

so aokiji can beat the rest comfortably so aokiji wins high diff


----------



## Admiral Kizaru (Aug 25, 2013)

God you're committed to this. Just give up and concede that you're wrong and I'm right so I can enjoy my Sunday evenings in peace watching a film instead of having to spend it on here. 



Sakazuki said:


> Funnily, you're the one person bringing up selective reading and misinterpretation of portrayal when the basis of your arguments is how Akainu has been decipted to be standing alone against the Whitebeard pirates, which becomes nothing unless we draw the portrayal out of the scene. I can just as easily call your interpretation wrong and say that Akainu was about to get stomped before he received back-up. What now ?



Except they actually fought there. Curiel didn't magically fall to the ground on his own accord covered in magma. Marco and the others didn't just say they would protect Luffy whatever the cost just for show. It was very brief and despite being absolutely enraged with how Sakazuki had humiliated them at Marineford (Squardo, punching repeated holes through their _father_ and lol Ace) they weren't able to do him any damage.  



Sakazuki said:


> Portrayal and hype > feats



Just ask the folks who thought that Fisher Tiger was WSM level on here a few years back based on hype how that fared for them. 



Sakazuki said:


> You don't understand the difference between straight down feats and portrayal, do you ? One-upping a heavily injured Whitebeard isn't indicating of equality. If that were the case, half of the characters in the manga would be regarded as equals.



Bravo for the thick layer of condescension, it's very unbecoming of you. Looks even more foolish when I don't think you comprehended what I was saying.

I didn't say that they were equals. It's just you were talking about people _quipping_ with one another whilst clashing being an indicator of equality and I'm pointing out Whitebeard and Borsalino had a very similar interaction during the war. 

And being able to stand on Whitebeard's Bisento and laser him at point blank range isn't something that "half the characters in the manga" would be able to do.



Sakazuki said:


> This, however is. Any half-objective poster will tell you so. Even the section's best such as Coruscation will agree. Feats are your only saving grace. Marco not having enough feats is the only reason why you can spout so much obnoxious crap about the character and still get away with it.



Has the possibility ever come to you that the reason Marco didn't show better feats at MF is that he's incapable of them. I mean for the hundreth time, for what reason would he be holding back his power and strength? His side were desperate and minutes away from complete annihilation and you can still with a serious face claim that he wanted to preserve his strength. 

I realise you need to cling on to your delusions of Marco being at a level far beyond where he actually is but let's get real now.



Sakazuki said:


> Wrestled ? Hardly so. Marco was rushing to Whitebeard, wasn't on-guard and Onigumo appeared from behind chaining him.
> 
> 
> 
> Uhm, no ? The only thing that scene portrays is that a Vice Admiral can take advantage of the situation to chain Marco. I mean, what exactly is it, that suggests in that scene, that they're equal ?



This is exactly the point you can twist any interaction scene to claim that's _portrayal_ that two characters are similar based on very little. I'm not claiming that they are equal, but Oda did choose Marco to be disarmed by a VA of all people, he could have had Borsalino personally do it but he decided that a VA would be sufficient.  

There's actually more solid evidence that Marco is closer to Onigumo level than he is to being near an Admiral. I know that truth is going to shatter the illusions of the Whitebeard pirate fans on here who have built their favourite characters over the years to unreachable heights but it's a sad fact I'm afraid. 

But I'll put this question out there for all the objective posters on here. Could you honestly see someone of the calibre of Mihawk, Whitebeard, The Admirals (assuming for some reason Onigumo was on the opposing side) ever being manhandled by Onigumo like Marco was there, "distracted" or not? Something like that simply wouldn't happen to them because they are in a completely different tier to Marco. Oda would never let that happen to them.



Mr. E Man said:


> So, why you letting AK get to ya?



He seems to get his jimmies rustled quite often by me.


----------



## RF (Aug 25, 2013)

> Except they actually fought there. Curiel didn't magically fall to the ground on his own accord covered in magma. Marco and the others didn't just say they would protect Luffy whatever the cost just for show. It was very brief and despite being absolutely enraged with how Sakazuki had humiliated them at Marineford (Squardo, punching repeated holes through their father and lol Ace) they weren't able to do him any damage.



Not sure whether you noticed mate, but Akainu got back-up. A lot of back-up. 



> Just ask the folks who thought that Fisher Tiger was WSM level on here a few years back based on hype how that fared for them.



Except that there was never anything about Fisher's hype even remotely suggesting that he's high up there. 



> I didn't say that they were equals. It's just you were talking about people quipping with one another whilst clashing being an indicator of equality and I'm pointing out Whitebeard and Borsalino had a very similar interaction during the war.



Maybe because they were very close to each other at the time ? 

Oda decides to introduce Marco within a scene depicting equality between him and Kizaru. Don't even try to deny it, if posters such as Coruscation accept it, then so should you. The question is, why would Oda do that, if the two fractions aren't even close in power. Why would he write mirror scenes between two characters if they're in two completely different classes of fighters? Why would he have Marco compared to _the Emperors_ if he and Kizaru aren't even comparable powerlevel-wise? 



> Has the possibility ever come to you that the reason Marco didn't show better feats at MF is that he's incapable of them. I mean for the hundreth time, for what reason would he be holding back his power and strength? His side were desperate and minutes away from complete annihilation and you can still with a serious face claim that he wanted to preserve his strength.



Oh, I had no idea that you read the fight between the commanders and Akainu. Please tell me all of Marco's feats that you gathered. 

Yeeeah, no. He performed one kick on Kizaru, which was blocked. He kicked Aokiji's spear and the impact of the attack sent Aokiji flying. None of the admirals were hurt in the exchanges, true. That doesn't mean that continuos kicks wouldn't have hurt him. It's like you and half of the section arbitrary ignore how pure brawlers _don't_ cause heavy damage in single strikes when it comes to Marco and Jaws. Luffy punches Rob Lucci straight into the face, send him flying and crashing _just_ like how Marco kicked Aokiji, and Rob Lucci isn't even slightly hurt. Why the double standards when Marco fails to inflict heavy damage with an attack that was even blocked ? You don't have a way of talking yourself out of this argument, it's how the manga works. You can question it all you want, but in the end, you know you'll end up wrong. 



> I realise you need to cling on to your delusions of Marco being at a level far beyond where he actually is but let's get real now.



So the majority of the thread agrees with me, while you're the single person debating that there's a huge power gap between the two characters and I am delusional ? I know you have to roleplay Kizaru and make the Whitebeard's look like fodder shit, but drop the autism once in a while. 



> This is exactly the point you can twist any interaction scene to claim that's portrayal that two characters are similar based on very little.



The scene with Marco and Kizaru _can't_ be twisted. There is nothing one can logically infer from that scene other than Kizaru and Marco are near in power, if not equal. Nobody ever interpreted the scene differently, and nobody even tried to do so, because the scence clearly suggests the above. 



> but Oda did choose Marco to be disarmed by a VA of all people, he could have had Borsalino personally do it but he decided that a VA would be sufficient.



This is such insanely faulty reasoning that it actually hurts. Oda decided that Kizaru alone was _not enough_, because the one time he attempted to take out Marco, his attack did jack to him, and then took advantage of the situation and ganged up on Marco with an admiral + Vice admiral + seastone combo so that he can be temporarily put down. He then spent hours on the floor with two gaping wounds on his chest, while substantially being weakened by seastone, and after removing the said chains, he matched the almighty Sakazuki equally, physically. 



> There's actually more solid evidence that Marco is closer to Onigumo level than he is to being near an Admiral.



No, there really isn't.



> But I'll put this question out there for all the objective posters on here. Could you honestly see someone of the calibre of Mihawk, Whitebeard, The Admirals (assuming for some reason Onigumo was on the opposing side) ever being manhandled by Onigumo like Marco was there, "distracted" or not?



Yes. Akainu was focusing on a half dead Jinbe, and Crocodile came out of nowhere, caught him off-guard and cleaved him in two. Onigumo is much more faster than Crocodile, give him seastone and Akainu would of been chained.


----------



## Mihawk (Aug 25, 2013)

the egos in this thread smh


----------



## RF (Aug 25, 2013)

Go away, Law is about to hand your ass to you


----------



## Urouge (Aug 25, 2013)

> Don't even try to deny it, if posters such as Coruscation accept it, then so should you.



the fuck rg? that's pathetic mate. why does he need to accept it what coruscation says? is he god? the guy isnt always right you know.


----------



## Typhon (Aug 25, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Not sure whether you noticed mate, but Akainu got back-up. A lot of back-up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hold on there now. No one should ever have to warp their views just because some well established poster has a different look on things, especially when it's about something as not clear as where Marco stands. It's speculation on all sides. If it was so black and white, then everyone would be saying Kizaru would extreme diff Marco, but there is something the Admirals having going for them that suggest otherwise.


----------



## Zorofangirl24 (Aug 25, 2013)

Marco and Zoro defeat him while the rest watch in awe.


----------



## trance (Aug 26, 2013)

Zorofangirl24 said:


> Marco and Zoro defeat him while the rest watch in awe.





Zoro can't do shit to an Admiral because he's utter fodder to one.

He gets frozen.


----------



## Zorofangirl24 (Aug 26, 2013)

Wait till Zoro and Law go all out against Fuji and it ends in a stalemate.


----------



## trance (Aug 26, 2013)

In another saga or two, yea...

But right now, Fuji would end them both...


----------



## RF (Aug 26, 2013)

> the fuck rg? that's pathetic mate. why does he need to accept it what coruscation says? is he god? the guy isnt always right you know.



No, it's just something that he shouldn't be denying.


----------



## RF (Aug 26, 2013)

Omnation said:


> Hold on there now. No one should ever have to warp their views just because some well established poster has a different look on things, especially when it's about something as not clear as where Marco stands. It's speculation on all sides. If it was so black and white, then everyone would be saying Kizaru would extreme diff Marco, but there is something the Admirals having going for them that suggest otherwise.



It is NOT warped views. It is obvious what that scene suggests, you can't just warp it, it's very, very clear portrayal, he just tries to deny it. I used Corus because he's a poster that AK respects and when even he agrees with the entire section, then there's no point in denying something.


----------



## Admiral Kizaru (Aug 26, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> It is NOT warped views. It is obvious what that scene suggests, you can't just warp it, it's very, very clear portrayal, he just tries to deny it. I used Corus because he's a poster that AK respects and when even he agrees with the entire section, then there's no point in denying something.



Come of it RG. 

Coruscation is a decent poster who articulates himself very well which brings along with it the air of intelligence about his posts but that doesn't make him correct.

I'm not going to agree with something just because he said, heck we've had plenty of disagreements over the past two years on several matters. 

Just like most posters on here he has his own biases and favourites (Luffy, Zoro, Shanks and the Whitebeard pirates) - he just does a better job of hiding it then say a _"Zorofangirl aka Harurifan"._ Quite ironic really as he's always railing against bias and _intellectual dishonesty_ on here. 


As for your tl;dr. When I can be bothered.


----------



## RF (Aug 26, 2013)

What I tried to say is that the portrayal of that scene is very clear; it can't be twisted or warped. I just used Coruscation as an example of a neutral and objective poster who doesn't play fan favourites when debating. This is not directed towards you, but there's no need to single out that statement and call me out on it when you completely misunderstood the context in which I used the said statement. 

No need to respond to my tl;dr, by the way. Arguing with you about the Whitebeard commanders is hopeless.


----------



## Shanks (Aug 26, 2013)

Wonder why any threads involving Admiral(s) and WB commander(s) generally go over 100 posts... with the exact same arguments over and over and over and over again. Oda really need to push forward with the story quicker and show more feats of MF players, so people can have other things to wank about.


----------

