# Gokage vs. Nagato



## Kai (Sep 13, 2014)

Setting: Cloud Village
Distance: 30 meters
Knowledge: Manga
Mindset: IC
Restrictions/Conditions: Gedo Mazo. Nagato is in his physical prime.


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## Trojan (Sep 13, 2014)

The Gokage win.

Even Madara needed his PS to defeat them. Also, with Manga knowledge, Nagato does not really stand much of a chance agains them. Tsunade will just summon Katsyuy to protect them from the ST, and Deva's ability, and they
know that the need some of chakra in their feats to counter Deva's abilities, in addition to the fact that those jutsus
require a cool-down after each use. 

Nagato's CT shouldn't be a problem here either as the Jinton will destroy it. The same thing about Preta Path against Gaara's sand. Even the shared vision is useless because of Mei's mist jutsu as they did to Madara.

if Madara's jutsus have failed in addition to the Rinnegan, and Hashirama's jutsu, and he needed to use PS twice to put them down, it's obvious that Nagato can't do that.


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 13, 2014)

I don't think in-character Nagato would win this.

Bloodlusted, however? A Chou Shinra Tensei right from the start, before Katsuyu can be summoned and split to protect the collective at large (never mind being instructed to do so in the first place, which takes time), would obliterate the Five Kage.


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## joshhookway (Sep 13, 2014)

Jinton laser + tsunade punch= dead nagato


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## IchLiebe (Sep 13, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Jinton laser + tsunade punch= dead nagato



Nagato absorbs chakra and nullifies both.


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## savior2005 (Sep 13, 2014)

if nagato starts with CT then he wins.


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## DavyChan (Sep 13, 2014)

What is a Gokage


*Spoiler*: __ 



Goku leveled Kage???


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## IchLiebe (Sep 13, 2014)

dpwater25 said:


> What is a Gokage
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



The 5 kage. Go is 5 in Japanese and kage is...well you know.

EDIT: Tsunade, Ei, Gaara, Mei, and Oonoki.


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## Kazekage94 (Sep 13, 2014)

Nagato wins mid dif


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## iJutsu (Sep 13, 2014)

CT, then Asura path laser to the head while they're distracted. Easy win.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 13, 2014)

Nagato uses Chibaku Tensei, all five Kage are trapped in it and unable to escape.


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## Joakim3 (Sep 13, 2014)

Nagato is completely healthy _and_ mobile 

Lets just say ginger Boy takes it with mid/hard dif


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 13, 2014)

Gokage win.

Onoki and A could potentially solo with their combo. Lightened A blitzes and takes Nagato's head off.


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## Trojan (Sep 13, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Nagato uses Chibaku Tensei, all five Kage are trapped in it and unable to escape.



how is that going to help against Onoki's jinton?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 13, 2014)

Hussain said:


> how is that going to help against Onoki's jinton?


Jinton is practically useless against Chibaku Tensei. He can't hit the core in time, and its not strong enough to destroy it.


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## Trojan (Sep 13, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Jinton is practically useless against Chibaku Tensei. He can't hit the core in time, and its not strong enough to destroy it.



It's exactly the opposite. 
Jinton will destroy everything in its way, so no matter how much rocks there are, it'll go right through
them and it will completely destroy the core.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 13, 2014)

Hussain said:


> It's exactly the opposite.
> Jinton will destroy everything in its way, so no matter how much rocks there are, it'll go right through
> them and it will completely destroy the core.


Jinton will face a lot of resistance, and what's stopping Nagato, after casting it from using Bansho Ten'in on Onoki to yank him out of the sky and impale him on a Chakra Distruption Blade while the rest of the Gokage are helpless?


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 13, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Gokage win.
> 
> Onoki and A could potentially solo with their combo. Lightened A blitzes and takes Nagato's head off.



Just out of curiosity, Grimmboy, how do you think Itachi would fare against this combo?


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## Trojan (Sep 13, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Jinton will face a lot of resistance, and what's stopping Nagato, after casting it from using Bansho Ten'in on Onoki to yank him out of the sky and impale him on a Chakra Distruption Blade while the rest of the Gokage are helpless?



- does that matter? 
- mmm because he needs time in between to do those gravity jutsus? 
Not to mention the other kages won't just stand and do nothing....



ATastyMuffin said:


> Just out of curiosity, Grimmboy, how do you think Itachi would fare against this combo?



:rofl
I was thinking the same thing!


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 13, 2014)

Hussain said:


> - does that matter?
> - mmm because he needs time in between to do those gravity jutsus?
> Not to mention the other kages won't just stand and do nothing....


When has Chibaku Tensei ever stated that there was a time between using its jutsus? And the only reason why there was ever a five second cooldown when used via the Deva Path is because Nagato had to transfer chakra to it and REACT so it could use the attack. Nagato, on his own, most likely has no cooldown.


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## Jagger (Sep 13, 2014)

Jinton can, effortlessly, destroy the core.

In order for Nagato to win this he needs to use his powers in a very intelligent and effective way, not just constantly spamming Shinra Tensei like he did against SM Naruto as we all saw how ineffective it turned out to be.

The big guns such as CST or CT can be countered, which forces Nagato to use his brain rather than his brawl. The Gokage might not be at the top of the food chain, but together they're a nightmare for shinobi around Nagato's level of power.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 14, 2014)

Nagato has no hope of winning. The five Kage already proved they could bypass Preta Path; Nagato doesn't have a Perfect Susano'o to whip out once he's cornered, either. Oonoki counters Chibaku Tensei by himself. Tsunade with Katsuyu and her Infuin can protect an entire village from a full-power Shinra Tensei. Mei can block the Rinnegan's field of vision.

I don't doubt Nagato can put up a decent fight, but the five Kage have him beat decisively.


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## Turrin (Sep 14, 2014)

Living Nagato w/ Pain Rikudo and GM might stand a chance, but Edo Nagato the Gokages have counters to all of his moves and will eventually overwhelm him with superior strategy.


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## Bonly (Sep 14, 2014)

Nagato would win more times then not like the other top tiers. Preta path and Deva path are great defenses which can pretty much stop damn near most of the Gokages attacks while keeping them at bay as well while hurting them if not kill them depending on the power of ST. And CT would pretty much end them with Onoki being the only one who has a shot at destroying the core but he may or may not be alive by then. Human path to rip out the soul of people who get to close and caught(also a great way to ignore durability), and Animal path to cause a small annoyance which might leave a member of the Gokage open for attacks and Asura path for extra firepower along with Nagato's crazy reactions and sensing and the fact that some of his jutsu are stronger, Nagato is simply gonna overwhelm them sooner or later.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 14, 2014)

Nagato can't even react to lightened Ei, CT is useless against normal Jinton let alone Tsunade inflated Cube. 

They literally executed an attack that destroyed Edo Madara, a man that had Preta Path, superior reaction and speed feats to Nagato, Mokuton clones and access to all of Hashirama's base Mokuton variants. Granted Madara was fucking around.

Unless Nagato opens with CST he can't win this. If he waits 5% Katsuya will be out spitting an acid ocean and ready to swallow his CST, lightened Ei will be flanking and Jinton Cube will be eating up all of his other attacks.

*Immediate* CST, BT and soul rip survivors immediately after. Only way he wins this.


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## Ersa (Sep 14, 2014)

Nagato beats them high difficulty.

People like Minato and Edo Itachi already push the Gokage to their limits. Nagato is a notch above, he's got the firepower neccessary to wipe them off the map and Rinnegan and summons + natural Uzumaki tankiness means he has ample defense to handle their assault.


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## iJutsu (Sep 14, 2014)

Funny how everyone just pretends it's only Nagato they're fighting. Nagato has a whole bunch of summons. Cerberus to distract the gokage, bird to fly and chameleon to hide himself and a bunch of others. He can also summon them all at once.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 14, 2014)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Just out of curiosity, Grimmboy, how do you think Itachi would fare against this combo?



Unless he has Susano'o up already, then he'd get blitzed and killed as well. So would Minato or anyone who isn't much faster than these guys I mentioned.


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## Icegaze (Sep 14, 2014)

lol nagato wins what is this people???  no seriously 
nagato has never fought at full power but if people assume he cannot use more than 1 CT at a time then you havent been reading the manga. nagato flies into the air and drops CT on them. onoki uses jinton and so on 
then the summons all come out from there nagato can simply chill in the sky where the only person who can get him is onoki. 1 on 1 he trolls onoki in seconds 

nagato is so far above them. like thats just me suggesting how he would win. even if he doesnt move an inch from his start pisition he still wins. fight starts summons all come out. they are defeated bar cerebrus 
bansho tenin chakra rod kills who ever it hits or controls them then nagato has a pawn he can freely control 
or he can just rip the persons soul out. 

forcing madara to use PS isnt the same as being stronger than nagato since nagato>>>>>>>>>>>>>ET madara without PS.


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 14, 2014)

If the Gokage fought as individual units, I think Nagato would win. His fighting style makes it very easy for him to adopt a divide and conquer strategy where he picks people off and, as a single shinobi, he's far stronger than any of the Kage in the other team. He was very good against Killer Bee and Naruto for that exact reason; they just didn't really fight with much synergy to begin with and it wasn't really until Itachi tied them together into a proper formation that Nagato finally lost.

But that's not how the Gokage fight. Their fight with Madara showed that they're very much capable of teamwork - and they're damn good at it, too. With the exception of genjutsu, they have mastery over just about every discipline a shinobi can have; ninjutsu, taijutsu, nintaijutsu and the various ranges. It's going to be very hard to separate them together or just overwhelm them when they cover each other so well, and unlike Madara, Nagato doesn't have powerful Susanoo clones to rip the Gokage apart, either.

I imagine that it'd be a very hard fight for both of them. For Nagato, because his opponents can cover most of each other's weaknesses and, collectively, all have some counter to his various abilities. That applies inversely as well. I'm probably leaning towards the Gokage winning though; just because they fared very well against someone who is far superior to Nagato.


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 14, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> nagato has never fought at full power but if people assume he cannot use more than 1 CT at a time then you havent been reading the manga. nagato flies into the air and drops CT on them.



I don't think Nagato can do this simply because: a normal chibaku tensei was stated to eat up significant chunks of chakra and the fact that the rain variation of it has only been done by jinchūriki Madara who was not only beefed up by the Jūbi, but also by the Shinjū on top of being the original owner of the eyes in the first place. To begin with, I'd imagine he can draw out more power from his eyes than Nagato ever could by virtue of them being his, but he also had what was essentially unlimited chakra to work around with. 



> then the summons all come out from there nagato can simply chill in the sky where the only person who can get him is onoki. 1 on 1 he trolls onoki in seconds



All of the Kage with the exception of Tsunade and A could hit him in the sky. Both Mei's and Gaara's ninjutsu can reach far enough, and Nagato isn't the type to just fly away out of range either. 



> bansho tenin chakra rod kills who ever it hits



Tsunade would regenerate from the wounds, A's raiton no yoroi would probably cause it to only just barely pierce into his body, Gaara's sand shield would undoubtedly block it and Mei/Ōnoki can just fire off ninjutsu if he tries to pull them in.



> or controls them then nagato has a pawn he can freely control



This is assuming he's given the time to wire their body with the transmitters.


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## Icegaze (Sep 14, 2014)

Laiwan Yi said:


> I don't think Nagato can do this simply because: a normal chibaku tensei was stated to eat up significant chunks of chakra and the fact that the rain variation of it has only been done by jinchūriki Madara who was not only beefed up by the Jūbi, but also by the Shinjū on top of being the original owner of the eyes in the first place. To begin with, I'd imagine he can draw out more power from his eyes than Nagato ever could by virtue of them being his, but he also had what was essentially unlimited chakra to work around with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It ate up large chunks of Nagato chakra  no doubt but don't forget he used it through a path
Which would mean more chakra wasted . If used by himself it would cost him a lot less 
Don't forget all he had done before using CT and still had a enough chakra to revive an entire village 
1 rod is all it takes to control them . The roads disrupt  chakra so raiton cloak won't help 
They can fire off ninjutsu at Nagato buthe will simply preta path it. He can use all 6 path at once 
No way they are going to touch or harm him


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## Hachibi (Sep 14, 2014)

Preta Path counter Jinton and Deva Path counter CQC attempt (except blitz) while Tsunade and Gaara protecting/healing everyone would make them last a very long time.
50/50 on this one


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## joshhookway (Sep 14, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Nagato absorbs chakra and nullifies both.



Yeah, while Nagato is absorbing, Tsunade punches him in the head.

Same tactic Jiraiya used.


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## IchLiebe (Sep 14, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Yeah, while Nagato is absorbing, Tsunade punches him in the head.
> 
> Same tactic Jiraiya used.



Tsunade's punch is chakra built up, and right before she connects, she releases it aka Nagato can absorb it.


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## joshhookway (Sep 14, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Tsunade's punch is chakra built up, and right before she connects, she releases it aka Nagato can absorb it.



Tsunade's natural strength would kill Nagato


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## Ashi (Sep 14, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Tsunade's punch is chakra built up, and right before she connects, she releases it aka Nagato can absorb it.



That's fanfic

The chakra isn't released outward like other techniques so he can't absorb it


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## Dominus (Sep 14, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Yeah, while Nagato is absorbing, Tsunade punches him in the head.
> 
> Same tactic Jiraiya used.



Why can't Nagato simply use Shinra Tensei or the Asura Path to prevent Tsunade from doing that?


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## IchLiebe (Sep 14, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Tsunade's natural strength would kill Nagato



Care to share a feat?



TensaXZangetsu said:


> That's fanfic
> 
> The chakra isn't released outward like other techniques so he can't absorb it



No, it's in the manga.


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## Bonly (Sep 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> That's fanfic
> 
> The chakra isn't released outward like other techniques so he can't absorb it



Preta path absorbs chakra if said chakra touches the barrier or he can do such after he makes direct contact with the chakra or he can suck the chakra right out of a persons body. If he can absorb the chakra from inside a persons body(in this case a persons fist) along with any bit that touches his barrier or himself, why is it fanfic for someone to suggest Nagato can do such to Tsunade?


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## Devil Child (Sep 14, 2014)

I dont know why people always think that Tsunade's strength is solely chakra-based like Sakura's. 

Tsunade carried Gamabunta's sword with pure strength because the "built up chakra and release it at contact" doesnt apply here. Kabuto cut her muscles to negate her strength. Hashirama confirms that Tsunade has monstrous strength even at a young age. The databook lists her strength at 5 along with Gai and Kisame. 

Sure, she can definitely boost her strength with that method too, but to suggest that chakra absorbing is enough to get rid of her strength is just ignorant.


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## Kai (Sep 14, 2014)

Devil Child said:


> I dont know why people always think that Tsunade's strength is solely chakra-based like Sakura's.
> 
> Tsunade carried Gamabunta's sword with pure strength because the "built up chakra and release it at contact" doesnt apply here. Kabuto cut her muscles to negate her strength. Hashirama confirms that Tsunade has monstrous strength even at a young age. The databook lists her strength at 5 along with Gai and Kisame.
> 
> Sure, she can definitely boost her strength with that method too, but to suggest that chakra absorbing is enough to get rid of her strength is just ignorant.


Excellent points.

Using the Preta Path to absorb Tsunade's chakra is fine, but Preta Path is not stopping a clear punch to the face. Also thanks for addressing the misconception that Tsunade only has heightened strength during specific bursts of her chakra.


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## Joakim3 (Sep 14, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Yeah, while Nagato is absorbing, Tsunade punches him in the head.
> 
> Same tactic Jiraiya used.



Tsunade is almost completely useless offensively... If Killer B (who's substantially faster) couldn't ambush a pre occupied, sensing suppressed, immobile Nagato.... Tsunade is never doing it even with 4 other Kages as support. All the happens is she gets strangled by Shurado powers and has her face ashed by _Laser Explosion_

What people love to forgot is if _either_ Onoki or Tsunade are K/O or killed, any shot of the Gokage wining are essentially slashed to zero. The fact that Nagato is far from a tactical idiot and has knowledge on her medical prowess and and is fighting 5 Kage, he's going gunning for her first as would any other sensible person in his position. Get rid of the medic/healer is basic ninja 1-0-1

Unfortunately for the Gokage... There is absolutely nothing stopping Nagato from separating them like Killer B, Itachi & Naruto and picking off which ever Kage he deemed the biggest threat. Adding the fact that every single Kage is at least 2 tiers below him and Nagato is attempting to kill them rather than restrain them, none of them would survive long enough for back up to arrive the way Naruto, Killer B or Itachi had the luxury


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 14, 2014)

Nagato solos why this is even debatable is beyond me


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## Ashi (Sep 14, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Preta path absorbs chakra if said chakra touches the barrier or he can do such after he makes direct contact with the chakra or he can suck the chakra right out of a persons body. If he can absorb the chakra from inside a persons body(in this case a persons fist) along with any bit that touches his barrier or himself, why is it fanfic for someone to suggest Nagato can do such to Tsunade?



Because Madara couldn't do it with same jutsu


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## Bonly (Sep 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Because Madara couldn't do it with same jutsu



Because of Madara? The same guy who had Preta path and let himself be hit by Jinton for shits and giggles to mess with the Gokage one time? The same Madara that can rain down meteors but didn't? The same Madara who barely used the Rinnegan jutsu in general bar Preta path when he was an Edo? That same Madara is the reason you want to use to assume a path won't do such, because that Madara never attempted to do such a thing, assuming you're referring to letting his wood clone get hit so he could go for a sneak that is? Even though I've showed you Nagato absorbing chakra on the outside of a person and the inside of a person. Lol good day sir


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## Icegaze (Sep 14, 2014)

Why is tsunade even a factor offensively ??
Ashura path murders her laser to the face and she dies


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## Deleted member 211714 (Sep 14, 2014)

Once Nagato is pushed to his limits, I think he will come out victorious with Chou Shinra Tensei. It's very out of character for Tsunade to summon Katsuyu, especially when she'd never summoned it against Madara in their battle. 

Chibaku Tensei can be destroyed by Jinton, and they're able to counter his other abilities as a team; however, the statue might be able to pressure a few of them, allowing Nagato to deal with the others by himself. 

I'd say it can go either way.


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## Ashi (Sep 14, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Because of Madara? The same guy who had Preta path and let himself be hit by Jinton for shits and giggles to mess with the Gokage one time? The same Madara that can rain down meteors but didn't? The same Madara who barely used the Rinnegan jutsu in general bar Preta path when he was an Edo? That same Madara is the reason you want to use to assume a path won't do such, because that Madara never attempted to do such a thing, assuming you're referring to letting his wood clone get hit so he could go for a sneak that is? Even though I've showed you Nagato absorbing chakra on the outside of a person and the inside of a person. Lol good day sir



So then any feat madara brings to the table is pointless since we can pick what's consistent and what's not amirite?


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## Joakim3 (Sep 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> So then any feat madara brings to the table is pointless since we can pick what's consistent and what's not amirite?



We can take them with a grain of salt.

We know that Gokage can take down Madara when he's acting in that particular manner with _those particular abilities_. The problem is when you start playing around with how abilities are/were used or in conjunction with what do things become more apparent. 

Nagato is going to use _all_ his Rikudo powers, with absolute brutality and no fucking around. He's not going to sit their watch as Cerberus plays with its "food" the way Madara watched his _Sasuno'o_ clones. He's going to have his summons attack the Gokage, and while their preoccupied fighting 10+ summons... he's going bind side nuke the fuck out of them while camping in the Chameleon, until their all dead


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## BurningVegeta (Sep 14, 2014)

Why is this still a debate? The Gokage absolutely murder Nagato. If the Gokage attack Nagato the same way how they attacked Madara, it is over in a matter of moments.


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## Jagger (Sep 14, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Yeah, while Nagato is absorbing, Tsunade punches him in the head.
> 
> Same tactic Jiraiya used.


Nagato can perfectly use more than one Path at the same time, so Shinra Tensei is a viable option.


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## Bonly (Sep 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> So then any feat madara brings to the table is pointless since we can pick what's consistent and what's not amirite?



Well yeah sure, why not, you seem to be picking which feats to go with and what not to go with what's consistent so sure lets pick and chose shit. I mean you brought up Madara *not doing something* against Tsunade when he didn't attempt to do such. Then claimed Preta path can't do something because of Madara didn't do such with said ability. Hell you were then showed outright consistent scans that Preta path(used by Nagato might I add be it the actually path dead bodies or his own body) can absorb the chakra inside a persons body as well as outside a persons body which is direct proof that he could absorb the chakra from Tsunade's punch. Yet you chose to ignore the consistent feats from Nagato who's actually in this match and go with Madara's feat of not trying something and thinking that's more consistent. But oh well, we shall agree to disagree


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## Trojan (Sep 14, 2014)

Gojō Kibaku Fuda

Gaara trolling CT and not getting absorbed. 

@ Amat?rasu’s Son

I did not know you post here as well! O_o


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## Ashi (Sep 14, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Well yeah sure, why not, you seem to be picking which feats to go with and what not to go with what's consistent so sure lets pick and chose shit. I mean you brought up Madara *not doing something* against Tsunade when he didn't attempt to do such. Then claimed Preta path can't do something because of Madara didn't do such with said ability. Hell you were then showed outright consistent scans that Preta path(used by Nagato might I add be it the actually path dead bodies or his own body) can absorb the chakra inside a persons body as well as outside a persons body which is direct proof that he could absorb the chakra from Tsunade's punch. Yet you chose to ignore the consistent feats from Nagato who's actually in this match and go with Madara's feat of not trying something and thinking that's more consistent. But oh well, we shall agree to disagree



Show me a scan of either of them absorbing chakra from a physical attack


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## IchLiebe (Sep 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Show me a scan of either of them absorbing chakra from a physical attack



Right here. Same thing blew Kisame's and Sasuke's chests out.


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## Ashi (Sep 14, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Right here. Same thing blew Kisame's and Sasuke's chests out.



That's more like a chakra aura


Could he absorb a chidori covered blade as well?


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## Lawrence777 (Sep 14, 2014)

The Gokage win, mostly because of Onoki imo. He's usually the factor that keeps top tiers from soloing the gokage.

I don't think they'd just walk over Nagato though, there going to lose members.

Tsunade counters w/ katsuya  CST if he pulls it out and jinton can be used against CT. He may not be able to react to a V2 Lightened Ei considering Minato barely reacted to a regular V2 Ei. 

The prospect of him reacting becomes even more dubious when you factor in the other kage harassing him at the same time. Onoki and Gaara are both capable of attacking his feet and compromising his position as well.
Gokage w/ high difficulty and casualties imo.


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## IchLiebe (Sep 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> That's more like a chakra aura
> 
> 
> Could he absorb a chidori covered blade as well?



It's a physical attack aided by chakra like Tsunade's, nin-taijutsu.

Samehada absorbed a raiton flow sword and preta>samehada.


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## Ashi (Sep 14, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> It's a physical attack aided by chakra like Tsunade's, nin-taijutsu.
> 
> Samehada absorbed a raiton flow sword and preta>samehada.



Then Why couldn't Madara absorb Raikages attack?


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Sep 14, 2014)

Preta can suck the chakra from physical things but would not straight up absorb a fist, sand, sword or whatever.

As for the match nagato could win this if he started out with a CST gravity bomb unhindered by katsuyu or gaara's sand and clean up whatever is left(if anything) afterwards. If not then he most likely get overwhelmed after a very tough fight. It depends on who is operating at the best efficiency.


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## Dr. White (Sep 14, 2014)

Nagato summons Cerberus, Rhino, Lizard, and Centipede. While Tsunade and Ei are smashing, he blindsides with invisible ST. Once he gets the Kages seperated, I think he would have decent chances edging them out little by little. Cerberus can only be taken down by Jinton, but idk if Tsunade saw cerberus. 

It honestly depends on how much he can do with Deva powers and Asura to put kages down. Unlike Madara Nagato isn't gonna mess around, he's gonna get to soul ripping. The Kages need to be working as a team to win because individually they are all ridiculously countered.


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## Trojan (Sep 14, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> *Minato* summons Cerberus, Rhino, Lizard, and Centipede. While Tsunade and Ei are smashing, he blindsides with invisible ST. Once he gets the Kages seperated, I think he would have decent chances edging them out little by little. Cerberus can only be taken down by Jinton, but idk if Tsunade saw cerberus.
> 
> It honestly depends on how much he can do with Deva powers and Asura to put kages down. Unlike Madara Nagato isn't gonna mess around, he's gonna get to soul ripping. The Kages need to be working as a team to win because individually they are all ridiculously countered.



Minato can only summons the frogs!


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Sep 14, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> Minato summons Cerberus, Rhino, Lizard, and Centipede. While Tsunade and Ei are smashing, he blindsides with invisible ST.



Minato can jump a tier with this shit.


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## Dr. White (Sep 14, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Minato can only summons the frogs!



Minato sama's fuinjutsu prowess know's no limits!


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## Bonly (Sep 15, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Show me a scan of either of them absorbing chakra from a physical attack



I already showed you one in my first reply to you which funny enough it involved Nagato. 



Bonly said:


> Preta path absorbs chakra if said chakra touches the barrier *or he can do such after he makes direct contact with the chakra* or he can suck the chakra right out of a persons body. If he can absorb the chakra from inside a persons body(in this case a persons fist) along with any bit that touches his barrier or himself, why is it fanfic for someone to suggest Nagato can do such to Tsunade?


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## Icegaze (Sep 15, 2014)

Nagato has no 5 second cool down and hahahah I just read Nagato can be beat by hidden mist + Jinton 
Loooool 
Ok and konohamaru beats Nagato while we are at it 

Even if he did have a cool down on ST he has 5 other paths he can use in those 5 seconds 

Also note putting chakra in their feet has yet to be a valid counter since it hasn't been tested and wouldn't just come to who is stronger ?? Nagato chakra vs their chakra in which besides Ei none of them have chakra comparable 

Please note all path abilities are much much stronger when used by Nagato 
I would also add that naruto knew about putting chakra in his feet yet he didn't do that against Nagato 

If Nagato camps in chameleon only gaara can find him once he realises that he kills gaara and the rest get dispatched like flies 

Acid mist is a no go also it's preta path trolls it


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## Invictus-Kun (Sep 15, 2014)

Nagato wins with Deva path.


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 15, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Nagato has no 5 second cool down and hahahah I just read Nagato can be beat by hidden mist + Jinton
> Loooool
> Ok and konohamaru beats Nagato while we are at it
> 
> ...


Ive always wanted to know whether Nagato has an interval or not i say he doesn't but others still think he does. Without an interval he solos this even easier


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## Icegaze (Sep 15, 2014)

Others have no proof that he does
Others are generally mis informed hence why they are refered  to as others 
Lol 
Nagato steam rolls if deva path can send boss summons flying omg don't let Nagato ST hit any of them


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## LostSelf (Sep 17, 2014)

I don't get how Tsunade would summon Katsuyu, make it divide and let it attach onto the Kages before Nagato shoots CST.

People are misunderstanding this jutsu completely. Nagato does not need to give _any_ warnings to use it. And what Katsuyu took was not a direct hit of said jutsu.

Now if Tsunade has Katsuyu on the field and attached to the kages, they should _maybe_ survive. But i don't know how effective would be fighting inside a slug.


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## JuicyG (Sep 17, 2014)

Kai said:


> Setting: Cloud Village
> Distance: 30 meters
> Knowledge: Manga
> Mindset: IC
> Restrictions/Conditions: Gedo Mazo. Nagato is in his physical prime.




I can see the Gokage pulling this off. After watching them go against Edo EMS PS Madara I'd say they could handle Nagato with mid - diff.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Whys Hussian Banned ?


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 17, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> I can see the Gokage pulling this off. After watching them go against Edo EMS PS Madara I'd say they could handle Nagato with mid - diff.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Too many summonings to handle Cerberus is a problem so he can just keep splitting over and over again  preta nullifies almost all their attacks Asura for that extra firepower like BT and Asura Gun and would be the demise of at least one of them and i haven't even mentioned CST


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## BurningVegeta (Sep 17, 2014)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Too many summonings to handle Cerberus is a problem so he can just keep splitting over and over again  preta nullifies almost all their attacks Asura for that extra firepower like BT and Asura Gun and would be the demise of at least one of them and i haven't even mentioned CST


Unless the Amegakure orphan is shielding the dogs, the bird, the rhino and anything else with Preta Path repeatedly from Onoki's Dust Release (who should be going aerial and nuking the field effectively). Unless your telling me Nagato can shield his summons while evading a regenerating Tsunade and a full power Raikage A... your statement holds no water, friend.


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## Veracity (Sep 17, 2014)

Not saying that Nagato looses but if Gaara can separate preta path from Tsunade and Onnoki then a charged Jinton would obliterate all the summonings and a couple of paths in one go.


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## Velocity (Sep 17, 2014)

Nagato in his physical prime was stomping the crap out of Naruto and Bee, two ninja comparable to the Raikage in physical abilities. With Nagato's Rinnegan jutsu having a reduced or non-existent cooldown, there's actually no reason at all why he couldn't beat all five Kages. Don't forget that none of the Kage have the same ability as Naruto to resist soul removal, plus techniques like Cho Shinra Tensei and Chibaku Tensei are well out of the ability of the Kages to handle.

I mean, do the Kages even know you have to destroy the core of Chibaku Tensei to cancel the technique? Just because Itachi figured it out, it doesn't mean they would.


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## BurningVegeta (Sep 17, 2014)

Velocity said:


> Nagato in his physical prime was stomping the crap out of Naruto and Bee, two ninja comparable to the Raikage in physical abilities. With Nagato's Rinnegan jutsu having a reduced or non-existent cooldown, there's actually no reason at all why he couldn't beat all five Kages. Don't forget that none of the Kage have the same ability as Naruto to resist soul removal, plus techniques like Cho Shinra Tensei and Chibaku Tensei are well out of the ability of the Kages to handle.
> 
> I mean, do the Kages even know you have to destroy the core of Chibaku Tensei to cancel the technique? Just because Itachi figured it out, it doesn't mean they would.


Nagato is by himself, he doesn't have all his six paths - he is the paths. I'm imagining Nagato like he was fighting Naruto and Kirabi without being an Edo Tensei reincarnation. That seems to be the conditions of this fight.

You cannot claim Nagato was stomping on Naruto and Kirabi then claim Itachi knew to attack Chibaku Tensei but nobody else might know to attack it. That is clearly a double standard. Yes the Gokage aren't Naruto and Kirabi neither are they Itachi. They're stronger together and smarter than those individuals - you just can't argue that.

Onoki will likely destroy any Chibaku Tensei summoned with the Detachment of the Primitive World Technique. There's no reason why he wouldn't. At the end of the day the summoning of it is just rock, A, Tsunade... it is nothing to them. Although if Onoki isn't here to destroy the core with his Kekkei Tota the Gokage will have another situation on our hands.

Naruto was only about to fight back against Nagato soul pull because it wasn't a soul pull. Nagato was trying to pull out Naruto's chakra and store it. There's no indication that Naruto had some special defence, anywhere.

Still at the end of the day, Nagato is going against five able shinobi who want him finished. I don't see any real problems here... unless Nagato somehow manages to stop like Pein did to Fukasaku albet Onoki not controlling his weight and dying there and then.

Nagato can't handle all this heat. He likely got sealed by Itachi because he was out numbered. Itachi vs Nagato ...one on one is a very different fight.


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## joshhookway (Sep 17, 2014)

Authoritah said:


> Why can't Nagato simply use Shinra Tensei or the Asura Path to prevent Tsunade from doing that?



Because he's busy absorbing Jinton. Either he shinra tensei tsunade and gets jinton'ed or absorbs jinton and eats Tsunade's punch.


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## Bonly (Sep 17, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Because he's busy absorbing Jinton. Either he shinra tensei tsunade and gets jinton'ed or absorbs jinton and eats Tsunade's punch.



Nagato can use more then one path at a time.


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## joshhookway (Sep 17, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Nagato can use more then one path at a time.



Show me the panel where he uses Preta Path and something else at the same time.


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## Bonly (Sep 17, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Show me the panel where he uses Preta Path and something else at the same time.



At the end of chapter 550 we see Nagato use Human path on Naruto. Next at start of the next chapter we see Nagato is still using Human path. Then Naruto uses a Rasengan to try and hit Nagato and Nagato's Preta barrier pops up to absorb the Rasengan while Nagato is still using Human path on Naruto.


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## Rocky (Sep 18, 2014)

Nagato needs to resort to his nukes right away or else he's going to slip up and get killed. He's got a bunch of hax, but his defense isn't really all that when pitted against a team of people, mainly because of Shinra Tensei's interval.  For example, if he uses Shinra Tensei to repel Tsunade, and then Raikage with his backpack comes screaming, Nagato is in deep shit. 

Outside of the nukes, best chances are early on, before his summons gets slaughtered.  Nagato won't be treating the five Kage like children, and the summons may be enough of a distraction to provide opening for Nagato to hax away a Kage or two. BT-Impalement combination literally shits all over Mei and Onoki, and if those two die early, the remaining three have no chance.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 18, 2014)

Gaara kind of sucks for Nagato.

ST can repel sand.  But Gaara has a lot more sand, and the repelled sand doesn't go out of his control or anything, and he can move it back to keep attacking.  It's also incredibly fast.  Preta power canonically can't absorb Gaara's sand or stop it.  

Asura gives him physical attacks against sand, but that's bot great.  BT doesn't stop auto-shield, or Gaara from catching himself with sand.  He's also really good at supporting his allies from falling for the same trick, in the same way he saved Mei when she was about to get nailed by Susano, or the Gokage needed o escape the flower forest, and when he caught against Kimi, or Ei against Sasuke, or, well, you get the point.  Nagato can also get crush to death, so sand can hurt him.  I don't think Gaara is by any means supposed to be Nagato level, or was intended as a counter, but his sand fares really well against most of the path abilities.  What he can't do, well, there are 4 other kage there to help with that.


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## Rocky (Sep 18, 2014)

Nagato can raise his hand in Gaara's general direction and launch him 500 meters in the opposite direction. Sand cannot guard against that, because ST isn't a shock wave.

That would create an opening for other Kage, but Gaara would still be dead.


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## Icegaze (Sep 18, 2014)

1) ST got no interval with nagato 
2) the sand was absorbed by preta . The sand was laced with sealing tags and lighting flow which is what fucked madara up. but he was absorbing the sand 

As already shown above. nagato can use more than 1 path at a time and this was also stated by naruto that he can use more than 1 at a time. its fairly obvious that after using ST to send them flying anyone not sent flying can be ST again or asura path can be used right after or preta depending on what needs to be defended against. 

Again why are we all disregarding chakra road to control any of the kages ?? nagato is clearly capable of this. 
after stabbing naruto with a road he was baffled he couldnt control naruto with just the 1 road. Despite what he had seen naruto do and nagato himself being weakened. if tsunade get a road in her or mei or gaara they are casually going to be controlled


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 18, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Nagato can raise his hand in Gaara's general direction and launch him 500 meters in the opposite direction. Sand cannot guard against that, because ST isn't a shock wave.
> 
> That would create an opening for other Kage, but Gaara would still be dead.



I was referring to Gaara catching himself with the sand, not blocking ST with it.

Why would Gaara be dead if he was shoved anyway?

Nagato's ST didn't do much to Bee or Naruto or Itachi.  Granted, the last one was an edo, but still.  Nagato popped right behind their backs and popped one, and no one really took any drastic injury.

@Icegaze

When Madara said he could absorb their jutsu, the Gokage said, "Nuh uh they're sand in there."  The sealing tags weren't mixed into the suiton/raiton/sand stream combo.  They were added later, to the outside of the pyramid.

No cooldown on ST is debatable, much as ST and BT sharing a cooldown is.  If you think it doesn't, okay.  I think it does because that was a major point on Pain's abilities, and it wasn't stated to be different for Nagato.  So I think it has a cooldown.

Addressed to no one in particular, Nagato has a lot of ambiguous powers and potential powers he may or may not have developed, and they're not very fleshed out of given great showings before he got sealed.  We don't really see much on how they differ from the powers his Pain bodies used, except for Naruto noting they're, "stronger."  On top of that, half of his showings in Nagato form are under Kabuto's control, and the other half are him being reactionary, so there's not much consensus on how he fights and what he does and what he can and can't do.  His last showing of being mobile involved him getting his legs blown up by an exploding tag trap you'd think his Rinnegan would have let him see coming.  I kind of hate him for all that.


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## Dominus (Sep 18, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Because he's busy absorbing Jinton. Either he shinra tensei tsunade and gets jinton'ed or absorbs jinton and eats Tsunade's punch.



Bonly already answered for me, Nagato can use multiple paths at the same time.


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## ARGUS (Sep 18, 2014)

Nagato wins this

 - He negates the entire arseenal of onoki and mei thanks to preta, and can also use ST to blow the mist

 - Through his sensing as well as nigh instant ST he can easily repel Ay with ease, or can use preta to absorb     his RNY then restrain him through shurado and kill him off with ningendo

 - Onoki then gets blown away by shurado missiles and with his entire offense negated through preta, means that he is non factor, 

 - Gaaras sand is getting countered by the crustaceans wild water bubble wave, and through the use of shurado missiles and large scale ST, his defense is getting eradicated, 

 - Tsunade is getting killed with BT and ningendo or getting restained through chakra rods, 

 - Once onoki is down, the gokage are just getting killed by CT

 - Gokage also have no counters at all to GM soul dragon meaning that nagatos victory is certain


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 18, 2014)

BurningVegeta said:


> Unless the Amegakure orphan is shielding the dogs, the bird, the rhino and anything else with Preta Path repeatedly from Onoki's Dust Release (who should be going aerial and nuking the field effectively). Unless your telling me Nagato can shield his summons while evading a regenerating Tsunade and a full power Raikage A... your statement holds no water, friend.


Nagato also has CST he can always absorb the Onoki's attacks and Nagato can just deal with Onoki while Cerberus deals with the others they will repeatedly attack it over and over only for it to multiply and split and at that time Cerberus is probably split more times then they can count so how is Onoki going to deal with all of them while Nagato is handling them? Also there is CST which i don't think many of them are withstanding. Then we also have the chakra receiver rods that he can control at least one of them with and with one of them on his side this match is ass good as settled Lets not forget soul removal either


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## ARGUS (Sep 19, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Gokage win.
> 
> Onoki and A could potentially solo with their combo. Lightened A blitzes and takes Nagato's head off.



Lol God no, 
A is never blitzing nagato when the latter can easily sense him coming, and along with shared vision and nigh instant deva techniques its not happening 

and Lol at A chopping nagatos head off, when the latter was unfazed by V2 Bees lariat (base bees lariat is superior to Ays, V2 would just be much stronger) through preta, 

preta renders Ays armor and Onokis jinton useless, as Nagato restrains them through shurado and chakra rods and then kills them off by ningendo,


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 19, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> Lol God no,
> A is never blitzing nagato when the latter can easily sense him coming, and along with shared vision and nigh instant deva techniques its not happening
> 
> and Lol at A chopping nagatos head off, when the latter was unfazed by V2 Bees lariat (base bees lariat is superior to Ays, V2 would just be much stronger) through preta,
> ...



Lightened A moves faster than A and hits harder when Onoki uses weight manipualtion.
So yes, Nagato loses his head, along wih most other body parts.

Nagato never fought anyone as remotely as fast as A, let alone A lightened A. So no, he isn't reacting to shit.


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## ARGUS (Sep 19, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Lightened A moves faster than A and hits harder when Onoki uses weight manipualtion.
> So yes, Nagato loses his head, along wih most other body parts.


Nagato has preta path to completely negate the effects of any blows that A might use on him,, 
the same way he negated the V2 Bees  lariat effect and then proceeded to absorb his shroud

A hitting harder due to weight manipulation is still meaningless if his attack is just getting absorbed, or would just end up getting restrained by extra shurado limbs just how KCM Naruto and killer bee did 
or Nagato can just use preta to nullify his armor completely and leave him defenseless, and then immobilise him throguh chakra rods 
or Nagato can just use shurado to restrain him, and then ningendo to kill him off 

as for onoki, all of his jintons are food for preta as he then gets nuked off through shurado missiles and ST, or gets killed by BT and Ningendo 


> Nagato never fought anyone as remotely as fast as A, let alone A lightened A. So no, he isn't reacting to shit.


 - He fought KCM naruto, and even overwhelmed him along with bee regardless of being  - immobile and crippled 

 - he sensed amaterasu (which has speed comparable to A) panels before the jutsu was even executed, and even managed to warn naruto and bee 

 - he even evaded V2 bees attack for a brief moment, 

 - he is one of the best sensors in the manga, and can easily sense A/Onoki coming at him, and then proceeds to use ST right at them, or if he doesnt use ST, then he can use Preta to completely negate their attacks/A's RNY and then impale them with chakra rods 

 - Once Onoki and A realise that they cant do shit, then they die


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## Joakim3 (Sep 19, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Lightened A moves faster than A and hits harder when Onoki uses weight manipualtion.
> So yes, Nagato loses his head, along wih most other body parts.
> 
> Nagato never fought anyone as remotely as fast as A, let alone A lightened A. So no, he isn't reacting to shit.



You do realize Onoki has to substantially slow Ei down so he can hit _that_ hard (the technique can either make you light or heavy, not both)..... something I don't see working with a man who has SM Naruto level sensing and not one, but two techniques that absolutely troll said tactic & both being able to activate instantly

No Nagato hasn't fought someone as fast as Ei, he's was just shown to be able to sense which compensates for any "lack or reactions" he has. He warned Naruto of Amaterasu (something that operates on Ei's max V2's speed scale) before it wasn't even fired to boot, and lets not ignore the fact that the guy could sense Kabuto's location when Mu couldn't (and Mu reacted to Ei)

Try again


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## LostSelf (Sep 19, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Lightened A moves faster than A and hits harder when Onoki uses weight manipualtion.
> So yes, Nagato loses his head, along wih most other body parts.
> 
> Nagato never fought anyone as remotely as fast as A, let alone A lightened A. So no, he isn't reacting to shit.



Wich makes you wonder why Mu was able to sense Ei and knew he was coming. Yeah, he couldn't do a thing because he cannot move physically faster than Ei.

But Nagato is a better sensor and doesn't need to move at all to render Ei and Onoki useless. And if their shroud is stolen by Preta Path, Ei's normal hit is not doing much to the man that shrugged a stronger lariat than the one that defeated Ei's.


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## Rocky (Sep 19, 2014)

A left Mu's vision, and there was absolutely no indication that Mu sensed A's reappearance.


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## LostSelf (Sep 19, 2014)

Rocky said:


> A left Mu's vision, and there was absolutely no indication that Mu sensed A's reappearance.



Ei couldn't have left Mu's field of vision because he was not seeing a thing (or not much however). That's what the mist was for. Ei was just too fast for him to physically react. But Mu had enough time to try to figure what Ei was about to do. If he had enough time for that, after he jumped in front of Madara, he should've had time to sense him.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 19, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> Nagato has preta path to completely negate the effects of any blows that A might use on him,,
> the same way he negated the V2 Bees  lariat effect and then proceeded to absorb his shroud


I chalk it up to being a puppeteered edo. Like how he used ST without flinching when Amaterasu had ate away most of his arm.

And Preta path doesn't absorb momentum, best case he takes away the lightning shroud, negating its piercing properties. He doesn't do anything about the physical impact. 
And Nagato still turns into dust after taking an attack that did this to Madara's Susano'o : It was the same method Minato used



> A hitting harder due to weight manipulation is still meaningless if his attack is just getting absorbed, or would just end up getting restrained by extra shurado limbs just how KCM Naruto and killer bee did


Like I said, preta doesn't absorb momentum. And shurado's limbs aren't doing shit to someone as fast as A.



> or Nagato can just use preta to nullify his armor completely and leave him defenseless, and then immobilise him throguh chakra rods
> or Nagato can just use shurado to restrain him, and then ningendo to kill him off



These claims all revolve around Nagato being able to physically do something about A which is impossible given his lack of speed feats. 



> as for onoki, all of his jintons are food for preta as he then gets nuked off through shurado missiles and ST, or gets killed by BT and Ningendo


Onoki isn't fighting alone here. Otherwise I agree, Nagato'd destroy Onoki with no difficulty, his arsenal completely negates Onoki's.



> - He fought KCM naruto, and even overwhelmed him along with bee regardless of being  - immobile and crippled


when did this happen ? 



> - he sensed amaterasu (which has speed comparable to A) panels before the jutsu was even executed, and even managed to warn naruto and bee


Irrelevant. He sensed the "pressure"(chakra build up before the technique is actually used) not movement. He may sense that A is about to use Shunshin, that doesn't mean he'll be able to percieve A's movements. A could as well tell Nagato that he is about lose his head, that doesn't change anything.



> - he even evaded V2 bees attack for a brief moment,


Nope. And V2 B doesn't have comparable speed to A anyways. Not sure what that proves.



> - he is one of the best sensors in the manga, and can easily sense A/Onoki coming at him, and then proceeds to use ST right at them, or if he doesnt use ST, then he can use Preta to completely negate their attacks/A's RNY and then impale them with chakra rods


Read Lee vs Sasuke.



> ]- Once Onoki and A realise that they cant do shit, then they die



Or they move @ a speed Nagato can't react properly to and rip his head off and play football with it.


@ Joakim & Lostself, I didn't reply to you guys seperately because this post pretty much covers the same topic.


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## Jagger (Sep 19, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> 1) ST got no interval with nagato


There's no proof of this, as far as I remember.


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## Veracity (Sep 19, 2014)

Onoki slowing down Ay's movements is done near instantly as seen when they essentially blizted EDO Madara with lightened speed and attacked with a heavy  lighting straight . 

Also Ay's weighted hit is > To Bees V2 lariat. I don't see a V2 lariat busting through a V2 Sussano when V1 Bee doesn't even blow base Sasukes back apart with a direct lariat.

I don't know who said what but I just added my input.

Id also like to add that nagato can be blizted. Tsunade was able to amp Onnoki's Jinton size by more then 10. Theoretically Tsuande should be able pump Ay to something around a V3 shroud. Nagato will be hard pressured to react to a V2 flicker( prolly not being able to physically react till after being struck) he will be outright blizted by amped ay. Especially if Tsuande Amps Ay then Onnoki makes him lighter.


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## wooly Eullerex (Sep 19, 2014)

gaara > animal 

Ei_ > preta & human path

Tsunade > hell path

Mei > ashura path

onoki can counter BT w/ clone spam & ST w/ earth core

deva evwntually loses to the 5 kage combo

prime nagato gets killed eventually by onoki backpack Ei_, as nagato wont get a chance to use CST


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## Ashi (Sep 19, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Onoki slowing down Ay's movements is done near instantly as seen when they essentially blizted EDO Madara with lightened speed and attacked with a heavy  lighting straight .
> 
> Also Ay's weighted hit is > To Bees V2 lariat. I don't see a V2 lariat busting through a V2 Sussano when V1 Bee doesn't even blow base Sasukes back apart with a direct lariat.
> 
> ...



More chakra doesn't equal more speed


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## Veracity (Sep 19, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> Ei couldn't have left Mu's field of vision because he was not seeing a thing (or not much however). That's what the mist was for. Ei was just too fast for him to physically react. But Mu had enough time to try to figure what Ei was about to do. If he had enough time for that, after he jumped in front of Madara, he should've had time to sense him.



Ay prolly didn't move in a straight line or moved in a specific way so that he blinded sided his opponent. He's done that before. 

He charged up his raiton cloak and flickered towards madara at the same time as Mei's justu was executed , hence the reason he wasnt present in the panel after: It was the same method Minato used

Yet didnt appear till after the lava had already arrived at Madara.  i think its just that the ay and Onnoki combination doesn't move in a linear pattern .


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## Veracity (Sep 19, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> More chakra doesn't equal more speed



I'm the case of AY; yes it does. His Raiton cloak hoes from V1 to V2 by simply adding more chakra .


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 19, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Onoki slowing down Ay's movements is done near instantly as seen when they essentially blizted EDO Madara with lightened speed and attacked with a heavy  lighting straight .
> 
> Also Ay's weighted hit is > To Bees V2 lariat. I don't see a V2 lariat busting through a V2 Sussano when V1 Bee doesn't even blow base Sasukes back apart with a direct lariat.
> 
> ...


With summonings like Cerberus on the field Nagato is taking this. Nagato would be able to sense Ay and Onoki coming plus Mu reacted to A and nagato sensing better than his. He was able to sense amaterasu coming before it was launched. And heres the thing nagato doesn't need to move to dodge it with Preta and Asura that whole combo is done for so no Nagato is not going to be blitzed. What is a 10x amped jinton going to do to Nagato other than act as a buffet for him?. Again if tsunade jumps Ay up to a v3 shroud Nagato will sense that to and he doesnt need to physically react to it he has Preta and Shurado to fully negate it. And Nagato can hide in the chameleon once Gaara is taken out and then once in the chameleon he has fun with Chakra reciever rods and controls a couple of people once at least one of them is on his side the match ends quicker than it normally would've.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 19, 2014)

Kai said:


> Setting: Cloud Village
> Distance: 30 meters
> Knowledge: Manga
> Mindset: IC
> Restrictions/Conditions: Gedo Mazo. Nagato is in his physical prime.



Nagato wins... he'll actually use _all_ the Rinnegan powers. Also since *he's* not being controlled etc so he'll use other things like Ninjutsu (elements, sensing etc) if he needs to.


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## Veracity (Sep 19, 2014)

sanninme rikudo said:


> With summonings like Cerberus on the field Nagato is taking this. Nagato would be able to sense Ay and Onoki coming plus Mu reacted to A and nagato sensing better than his. He was able to sense amaterasu coming before it was launched. And heres the thing nagato doesn't need to move to dodge it with Preta and Asura that whole combo is done for so no Nagato is not going to be blitzed. What is a 10x amped jinton going to do to Nagato other than act as a buffet for him?. Again if tsunade jumps Ay up to a v3 shroud Nagato will sense that to and he doesnt need to physically react to it he has Preta and Shurado to fully negate it. And Nagato can hide in the chameleon once Gaara is taken out and then once in the chameleon he has fun with Chakra reciever rods and controls a couple of people once at least one of them is on his side the match ends quicker than it normally would've.



Never Said the Gokage were going to win the first place. So any argument regarding that is pretty useless.

1) the scene you are referring to was a lightened V1 Ay. A lightened V2 Ay would be tremendously faster. 
2) Mu reacted to Ay leaving the area but didn't react to Ays actual Shunshin are he got outright blizted. If Ay was moving in a linear path then he would have outright blizted Mu without him being able to react at all. I literally just explained this like 2 posts above. Ay doesn't always move in a linear path. He sometimes moves around the opponent to attack at blindside which would take a longer amount of time. Thus the reason he flickers at the same time Mei casts a Justu, yet gets to Madara's after her lava does.

Nagato has to react to it though. He's not reacting to V2 lightened Ay. Or V3 Ay, or V3 lightened Ay. He gets blizted off the planet. Minato who was revered for his advanced reactions was an inch from getting straight blizted from V2 Ay. All the incarnations of Ay I just mentioned are tiers faster then V2 Ay, and Nagatos reactions are no more then a single tier above Minato's.

I never said anything about Jinton effecting Nagato; read carefully.


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## BurningVegeta (Sep 19, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Nagato wins... he'll actually use _all_ the Rinnegan powers. Also since *he's* not being controlled etc so he'll use other things like Ninjutsu (elements, sensing etc) if he needs to.


Kabuto wasn't controlling Nagato's actions...he simply made him bloodlusted. When Nagato got sealed, Kabuto took no blame as Nagato was fighting at his very best. He just got overwhelmed, so what you're saying holds no water - the Nagato there would be the Nagato here.


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## StickaStick (Sep 19, 2014)

BurningVegeta said:


> Kabuto wasn't controlling Nagato's actions...he simply made him bloodlusted. When Nagato got sealed, Kabuto took no blame as Nagato was fighting at his very best. He just got overwhelmed, so what you're saying holds no water - the Nagato there would be the Nagato here.



Wat? 



A BL Nagato would have plastered all three of them with a CST instead of toying with Naruto and Bee.

As to this match-up, I would give it to Nagato with high diff; possibly extrememly high diff. depending on how the Gokage approach him strategically with only manga knowledge.

Honestly, CT could solo since we don't know if any of the Kage would be perceptible enough to figure out to take out it's core. While obvious as fuck to the average reader, I think it was supposed to be seen as an example of Itachi's "superior intellect" since neither Naruto nor Bee could make the obvious connection. 

If CT isn't enough, then Nagato will just overwhelm them with his other Rinnegan abilities and mastery of the five elements.


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## Empathy (Sep 20, 2014)

The current Kage should win, but I don't believe they could do anything against _Chibaku Tensei_ if it came out. Only thing that might damage the core is a Tsunade-charged jinton, but they'd have to get pretty close and even then I doubt it's strong enough.


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## Ersa (Sep 20, 2014)

The Gokage have no hope in hell of matching the power of a Bijuudama, FRS and YM combined. Jinton is nice and all but Tsunade punch, spraying bubbles, Gaara's pissweak sand aren't doing anything to CT which tanked KN6's Bijuudama with ease.


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## Ashi (Sep 20, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> The Gokage have no hope in hell of matching the power of a Bijuudama, FRS and YM combined. Jinton is nice and all but Tsunade punch, spraying bubbles, Gaara's pissweak sand aren't doing anything to CT which tanked KN6's Bijuudama with ease.



You answered your own question


Particle Jutsu GG


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## BurningVegeta (Sep 20, 2014)

The Format said:


> Wat?


Kabuto allowed Nagato to control his own actions by putting him in a state of bloodlust. He wasn't controlling his every action like he was when he was in control of Mu when he had him summon Madara.


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## tari101190 (Sep 20, 2014)

Deva Paths's Shinra Tensei to keep his distance and block attacks.

Preta Path to absorb chakra to block long range attacks.

Animal Path to summons huge beasts to keep them all busy.

Human Path to rip out soul of anyone who tries to attack physically.

Asura Path to fire lasers & missiles at long range.

Naraka Path to heal any damage he receives.

Chibaku Tensei to finish them off.

Mizukage, Tsuchikage, Kazekage are all useless since they all have long ranged jutsu which would have no effect. Hokage is super strong but needs to attack close range, which is impossible.

Raikage may be fast enough to reach Nagato, but Nagato can rip out his soul or Shinra Tensei if he does get too close.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 20, 2014)

BurningVegeta said:


> Kabuto wasn't controlling Nagato's actions...he simply made him bloodlusted. When Nagato got sealed, Kabuto took no blame as Nagato was fighting at his very best. He just got overwhelmed, so what you're saying holds no water - the Nagato there would be the Nagato here.



He was, that's why Nagato could attack Itachi. There's a reason Nagato was using Hell Realm and other powers just as Kabuto was saying he'll use those powers like that. 

Now that has plenty of evidence. You just pulled the "he was blood lusted" info out of your ass. Reason being that you missed the very obvious panels of Kabuto being in total control. Unless you think blood lust makes you forget basic skills like sensing; an ability Kabuto was unaware of. 

The Nagato against the trio was Kabuto in Nagato's body; not Nagato controlling himself. Just like what happened with Kabuto and the Raikage.

In short: read the manga, its right there.


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## Hachibi (Sep 20, 2014)

How is Kabuto unaware of sensing when he's a sensor himself?


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## Bonly (Sep 20, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> How is Kabuto unaware of sensing when he's a sensor himself?



Kabuto thought Itachi found him by using sensing skills due to Itachi words. Itachi corrected him and told him that Nagato was the one who could use sensing. So due to him thinking Itachi had sensing powers even though Itachi had no power, it's possible and very likely that he didn't know Nagato could do such, even if Kabuto himself is a sensor.


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## Hachibi (Sep 20, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Kabuto thought Itachi found him by using sensing skills due to Itachi words. Itachi corrected him and told him that Nagato was the one who could use sensing. So due to him thinking Itachi had sensing powers even though Itachi had no power, it's possible and very likely that he didn't know Nagato could do such, even if Kabuto himself is a sensor.



I thought he mean that Kabuto doesn't know about sensing in general 

I stand corrected


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## LostSelf (Sep 20, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Ay prolly didn't move in a straight line or moved in a specific way so that he blinded sided his opponent. He's done that before.
> 
> It looks like he moved in a straight pattern because he attacked Muu face to face. There wouldn't have been any need to blindside him if Muu could've been easly blitzed from the get to go.
> 
> ...



You gave me a different panel (Or i didn't understand properly). This is what people is saying is talking about: [1][2].

As you can see there, Mei used the mist first, and there are two problems with people is saying. If Ei was fast enough to blitz Madara, he wouldn't have the need of the mist nor the need to blindside Mu, just rampaging to him in a linear patterns would've been enough.

The second problem is Ei leaving Mu's fiel of vision. He couldn't have done that because Mei used the mist especifically for that, as Mu states she is trying to blind the _Rinnegan_'s field of vision.

Now everybody here is saying Nagato is going down to that combination. The fact that Mu had time _after_ Ei began to move, to formulate a strategy before Ei hit him (And he was surprised not because of the speed, because the punch wasn't lighted as he expected, therefore it is unknown if Mu could've done something to defend himself) makes me believe that a more powerful and better sensor than Mu would be able to activate _Preta Path_ and render that combination useless. Their _Super Aggravated Rock Technique_ is not bypassing Preta's Barrier just like the more powerful _Jinton_ failed.

Therefore i don't see that combination working with someone as powerful as Nagato. Madara was not even surprised by that combination. He just stood there as cool as always.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 20, 2014)

Empathy said:


> The current Kage should win, but I don't believe they could do anything against _Chibaku Tensei_ if it came out. Only thing that might damage the core is a Tsunade-charged jinton, but they'd have to get pretty close and even then I doubt it's strong enough.



The core was visible for Itachi and Be and co.  The charged jinton also crossed a battlefield.  They can probably take it out.  Jinton should destroy rocks, and turn the core into particles.  That attack ignores durability.


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## Deleted member 175252 (Sep 20, 2014)

IC Nagato probably loses a close battle but bloodlusted most likely means he wins without toooo much difficulty


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 20, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> You gave me a different panel (Or i didn't understand properly). This is what people is saying is talking about: [1][2].
> 
> As you can see there, Mei used the mist first, and there are two problems with people is saying. If Ei was fast enough to blitz Madara, he wouldn't have the need of the mist nor the need to blindside Mu, just rampaging to him in a linear patterns would've been enough.
> 
> ...



Sensing reactions are inferior to sight actions.  Mei's mist cuts off the reaction hax of shared vision.  That combo, with a distraction, should work.  The super aggravated rock technique is a touch cast thing anyway, and Preta won't be able to eat it until he makes physical contact.  Which would be the moment Ei's fist touches him, and there's not enough time to suck the jutsu away before the impact transfers into his skull.  A better argument would be that he uses ST to repel them when they get close, which might be more possible.

However, I like to think that people don't actually believe Nagato can turn on rocket thrusters, and fly around with Preta active while casting infinite successive shinra tenseis.  That would be both funny and stupid.  More stupid when you remember Nagato had to physically dodge kunai after a ST here, and got his legs blown up right afterwards while on cool down.  Or maybe he wasn't on cooldown, and was just too dumb to activate preta path or deva path or reinforce himself with asura path, but whatever the reason, it's obviously not treated as a god mode.


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## Icegaze (Sep 20, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Sensing reactions are inferior to sight actions.  Mei's mist cuts off the reaction hax of shared vision.  That combo, with a distraction, should work.  The super aggravated rock technique is a touch cast thing anyway, and Preta won't be able to eat it until he makes physical contact.  Which would be the moment Ei's fist touches him, and there's not enough time to suck the jutsu away before the impact transfers into his skull.  A better argument would be that he uses ST to repel them when they get close, which might be more possible.
> 
> However, I like to think that people don't actually believe Nagato can turn on rocket thrusters, and fly around with Preta active while casting infinite successive shinra tenseis.  That would be both funny and stupid.  More stupid when you remember Nagato had to physically dodge kunai after a ST here, and got his legs blown up right afterwards while on cool down.  Or maybe he wasn't on cooldown, and was just too dumb to activate preta path or deva path or reinforce himself with asura path, but whatever the reason, it's obviously not treated as a god mode.



am impressed with your post. However i do not believe nagato has an ST cool down period
While nagato sight could be messed up by mist. he has a very convenient technique to compensate for his lack of sight despite being a sensor. The rain technique he uses on his village can be used on the battlefield. which would allow him to further pinpoint each person location. 

Also a village busting ST gets rid of mist easily. 

lastly and what everyone forget nagato is the 7th path himself. he can use outer path powers and heal himself. seeing he could revive a village he has virtual unlimited use of outer path which in essence works like izanagi on the paths. so good luck killing him. so long as he activates the tech before death which he can do from the get go he is bound to catch them off guard. 

once he sees the back pack combo used once his sole aim would be to kill onoki or Ei once either are dead or being rod controlled the match is over.

ok i will concede on the interval of 5 seconds to keep the argument going. Lets say he has a 5 s interval what stops him from starting with ST?? the size of the 1 used to destroy konoha? however much shorter cool down since he is using his body. So he uses said jutsu are you saying none of the kages will die from that?

after using said jutsu he hides in chameleon before he is found ST would be recharged plus he has 5 other paths to defend himself with during that short interval. 

the kages simply cant pull off a win. the only person capable of exploiting ST interval is Ei. the others can be trolled by any of the other path abilities all day everyday. take Ei out of the equation and you all do realize that nagato wont even have to move to win this fight.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 20, 2014)

The rain jutsu isn't a pinpoint locator.  It only informs you that someone has breached the city.  That's why Pain sent Konan out to manual scan the city with her butterflies to find Jiraiya.  

I don't believe Nagato can use 7th path to heal or revive himself infinitely, or else he wouldn't have been using Itachi as a crutch until he was able to grab Naruto's kyuubi healing chakra to fix his legs.  The revival path also had to manually place the dead bodies into the gate thing to revive them, and if Nagato is dead, he can't do that to himself.  It also seems to be a jutsu that has to be sustained while it's in use, and I'm unsure about how well you can hold a jutsu while you're being reincarnated.  Nor do I think the kage would let him do that even if he could.  They'd just Jinton the gate or something before he comes out.

Thank you for the compliment.


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## Icegaze (Sep 20, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> The rain jutsu isn't a pinpoint locator.  It only informs you that someone has breached the city.  That's why Pain sent Konan out to manual scan the city with her butterflies to find Jiraiya.
> 
> I don't believe Nagato can use 7th path to heal or revive himself infinitely, or else he wouldn't have been using Itachi as a crutch until he was able to grab Naruto's kyuubi healing chakra to fix his legs.  The revival path also had to manually place the dead bodies into the gate thing to revive them, and if Nagato is dead, he can't do that to himself.  It also seems to be a jutsu that has to be sustained while it's in use, and I'm unsure about how well you can hold a jutsu while you're being reincarnated.  Nor do I think the kage would let him do that even if he could.  They'd just Jinton the gate or something before he comes out.
> 
> Thank you for the compliment.



ok you are right on both counts. 

However i would say nagato can easily tank Ei hit even when back pack because 
asura path tanked multiple crushing attacks yet we know a path is much weaker than nagato himself when he uses their ability. Now considering only physical attacks can work on nagato and the only thing fast enough to hit him can be tanked i find it hard to believe nagato can actually be killed. 

lets not forget he can preta the shroud on contact while using asura path to survive the physical damage. or if not in cooldown a ST the second he looses sight of Ei and Ei and onoki become a blood stain on the wall. 

i agree to the cool down however you must realize that with 5 other path abilities 5 seconds can be easily defended. only 1 attack as i have mentioned would be a problem. Gaara sand is all fun and games but he isnt about to crush nagato with asura ability especially when gaara would probably be the one focusing on cerebrus since he can restrain it and keep it from multiplying however nagato can easily counter that by attackign his own summon


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## LostSelf (Sep 20, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Sensing reactions are inferior to sight actions.  Mei's mist cuts off the reaction hax of shared vision.  That combo, with a distraction, should work.  The super aggravated rock technique is a touch cast thing anyway, and Preta won't be able to eat it until he makes physical contact.  Which would be the moment Ei's fist touches him, and there's not enough time to suck the jutsu away before the impact transfers into his skull.  A better argument would be that he uses ST to repel them when they get close, which might be more possible.



Yeah, they are inferior in some circunstances, but very useful when your opponent leaves your field of vision, feeling it there is no need to look for it and if your eyes cannot track it, sensing the chakra moving would be superior than that. Jinton had also a large and fast trayectory and it failed to bypass the barrier. Ei''s striking speed should not be as fast as his movement speed (I actually think every chakra based attack stops at the barrier, and if i am not mistaken, Onoki made Ei's fist heavier for such a blast?) Ei's fist will bypass it for sure, but i doubt the less dense chakra will make it. And Nagato shrugged off the damage of a V2 Bee's lariat (and it absorbed it instantly after he activated the barrier, therefore i think it would absorb Ei's shroud pretty fast, though). Wich is more powerful than Ei's hits. However, for the sake of the argument, Nagato can kill Onoki with Shinra Tensei the moment he doesn't see Ei with an omnidirectional boss sized ST too, though.



> However, I like to think that people don't actually believe Nagato can turn on rocket thrusters, and fly around with Preta active while casting infinite successive shinra tenseis.  That would be both funny and stupid.  More stupid when you remember Nagato had to physically dodge kunai after a ST here, and got his legs blown up right afterwards while on cool down.  Or maybe he wasn't on cooldown, and was just too dumb to activate preta path or deva path or reinforce himself with asura path, but whatever the reason, it's obviously not treated as a god mode.



But that Nagato probably didnt' even know how to use Asura Path. I don't think Preta Path can absorb explosions of explosive tags, though. Those are not chakra based. But he probably couldn't use it effectively back then.

But, on the other hand, Nagato has the posibility (now) of levitating or fly using Asura's rockets and bombard them from above, not with infinite Shinra Tensei's though. This jutsu should still have a cooldown or it would be too overpowered. But he has enough firepower without it to overpower Mei's and Gaara's.


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## kingcools (Sep 20, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Sensing reactions are inferior to sight actions.



i disagree on an absolute level. Sensing allows you to notice chakra being charged or focused which for example made it possible for naruto to anticipate amaterasu when he had to battle edo itachi


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 20, 2014)

kingcools said:


> i disagree on an absolute level. Sensing allows you to notice chakra being charged or focused which for example made it possible for naruto to anticipate amaterasu when he had to battle edo itachi



Jiraiya disagrees with you.

There are definite pros to sensing.  But it's almost always preferable to visually see attacks coming than to be relying on sensing.  Also, I thought that was Nagato seeing the chakra build up with his Rinnegan.  Naruto was in Kyuubi mode during that fight, and that mode doesn't have sensing.  Could be wrong, I haven't read the fight in forever.


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 20, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Sensing reactions are inferior to sight actions.  Mei's mist cuts off the reaction hax of shared vision.  That combo, with a distraction, should work.  The super aggravated rock technique is a touch cast thing anyway, and Preta won't be able to eat it until he makes physical contact.  Which would be the moment Ei's fist touches him, and there's not enough time to suck the jutsu away before the impact transfers into his skull.  A better argument would be that he uses ST to repel them when they get close, which might be more possible.
> 
> However, I like to think that people don't actually believe Nagato can turn on rocket thrusters, and fly around with Preta active while casting infinite successive shinra tenseis.  That would be both funny and stupid.  More stupid when you remember Nagato had to physically dodge kunai after a ST here, and got his legs blown up right afterwards while on cool down.  Or maybe he wasn't on cooldown, and was just too dumb to activate preta path or deva path or reinforce himself with asura path, but whatever the reason, it's obviously not treated as a god mode.


That was a different Nagato this one is more mature and is alot better with the Rinnegan. And to be honest i dont believe he has a cool down. And CST would kill of at least some of them.


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## Joakim3 (Sep 20, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Jiraiya disagrees with you.
> 
> There are definite pros to sensing.  But it's almost always preferable to visually see attacks coming than to be relying on sensing.  Also, I thought that was Nagato seeing the chakra build up with his Rinnegan.  Naruto was in Kyuubi mode during that fight, and that mode doesn't have sensing.  Could be wrong, I haven't read the fight in forever.



Agree very much, but we've seen how reactive people who have dojutsu + sensing are...... unless we are talking S/T attacks blitzing them is neigh on impossible

Nagato thought to himself when sensed the chakra pressure/buildup as he wasn't actively paying attention to Itachi when he started using _Amaterasu_

RM Naruto has emotion sensing, not regular chakra sensing. While Nagato _seems_ to have passive sensing (when in control of his body) as he was aware of Naruto approaching his & Itachi's location


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 20, 2014)

sanninme rikudo said:


> That was a different Nagato this one is more mature and is alot better with the Rinnegan. And to be honest i dont believe he has a cool down. And CST would kill of at least some of them.



CST might kill none of them with Tsunade there.  She saved a village of civilians, and all of the kage have great durability feats regardless.

Oonoki took a meteor to the forehead, Mei has been punched out by Susano, Tsunade and Ei are going to be fine, and Gaara is a former Jin plus can cushion himself with sand.  Rocky said that you can't defend against CST because it's not a shockwave, but I disagree, because Katsuya saved people by absorbing them in her sponge body to defend them from the attack.

I also think that even if people disagree on ST having a cooldown, _Cho_ Shinra Tensei, which took a substantial amount of Nagato's chakra (even when he was down to one body) and put Deva path on cooldown for 5 minutes.  It's a jutsu that stresses and shortens the life of Nagato himself.  It should well put at least his Deva powers on some kind of cooldown.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 20, 2014)

sanninme rikudo said:


> That was a different Nagato this one is more mature and is alot better with the Rinnegan. And to be honest i dont believe he has a cool down. And CST would kill of at least some of them.



I honestly don't know about Nagato getting better with the Rinnegan.

So far doujutsu like Rinnegan seems to come with all their abilities unlocked.  The sharingan is the only one that has any requirements, but even then you automatically get your powers at full function once you hit the benchmark.  EX: when you get sharingan, you get bullet time.  When you get 3 tomoe, you get precog.  When you get MS, you get Ameterasu and MS Genjutsu.  Hate enough, and you get Susano (which levels up by hate)  Your byakugan are byakugan and do everything byakugan do.  

We also have a bunch of stuff like Kakashi getting sharingan, and instantly being good enough to perfect raikiri.  Madara ripping out Kakashi's eye, and instantly using kamui.  Kakashi getting EMS, and instantly using Perfect Susano.  Obito unlocking Rinnegan, and killing about 50 Jonin and Mist Hunters with perfectly timed kamuis in an incoherent rage.  Rinnegan probably gives you ever path and elemental affinity from the outset, with the knowledge to make it work.  Else wise, he wouldn't have been able to use an jutsu, since no one else knew what the rinnegan powers were.  Then even if he needed some practice, Nagato, after being trained by Jiraiya, and spending years on the front lines in Akatsuki, should have been relatively close to his current self.  It's hard for me to imagine getting crippled, and dividing his power by 6, made him far better.


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## Joakim3 (Sep 20, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> CST might kill none of them with Tsunade there.  She saved a village of civilians, and all of the kage have great durability feats regardless.



She saved a _portion_ of the village, unless you think all the people revived by _Rinne Tensei_ were _stabbed_ to death 

That would work well an dandy.... but...

How is Tsunade supposed to defend against CST when it can be used like any normal _Shinra Tensei_ with zero warning signs whatsoever? Assuming she did have any warning signs then what, she'd have to surround herself and the Kages in the slugs (which simply means they are sitting ducks for any of Nagato's other attacks). Again assuming surrounding themselves even saved them



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Oonoki took a meteor to the forehead, Mei has been punched out by Susano, Tsunade and Ei are going to be fine, and Gaara is a former Jin plus can cushion himself with sand.  Rocky said that you can't defend against CST because it's not a shockwave, but I disagree, because Katsuya saved people by absorbing them in her sponge body to defend them from the attack.



Onoki had an entire meteor above him as cushioning and to absorb the impact, a Sasuno'o slap is nothing impressive tanking wise when SM users a substantially stronger than them, and Gaara's sand is going to be turned into pudding... 

Short of the Gokage camping out in 5% Katsuya, A fully powered focused CST from a healthy Nagato is killing every single Kage bar _possibly_ Tsunade & Ei. We are talking about an attack that would make Madara's PS display look dull



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I also think that even if people disagree on ST having a cooldown, _Cho_ Shinra Tensei, which took a substantial amount of Nagato's chakra (even when he was down to one body) and put Deva path on cooldown for 5 minutes.  It's a jutsu that stresses and shortens the life of Nagato himself.  It should well put at least his Deva powers on some kind of cooldown.



Nagato was emaciated and fighting at a fraction of his original chakra reserves while stressing himself out by using the _Pein Rikudo_. It's like comparing an emaciated chakra starved Kisame without Samehada to his Kisamahada, Killer B foddering self with full chakra reserves. Healthy Nagato is going to have substantially more chakra to pump out and his nukes are going to take a SUBSTANTIALLY less toll on his body

Bust yes CST means a cool down simply due to _Shinra Tensei's_ mechanics..... but I'd imagine the cool down would be shorter due to Nagato being healthy and not having to transmit chakra to mediums km upon km's away


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 20, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> CST might kill none of them with Tsunade there.  She saved a village of civilians, and all of the kage have great durability feats regardless.
> 
> Oonoki took a meteor to the forehead, Mei has been punched out by Susano, Tsunade and Ei are going to be fine, and Gaara is a former Jin plus can cushion himself with sand.  Rocky said that you can't defend against CST because it's not a shockwave, but I disagree, because Katsuya saved people by absorbing them in her sponge body to defend them from the attack.
> 
> I also think that even if people disagree on ST having a cooldown, _Cho_ Shinra Tensei, which took a substantial amount of Nagato's chakra (even when he was down to one body) and put Deva path on cooldown for 5 minutes.  It's a jutsu that stresses and shortens the life of Nagato himself.  It should well put at least his Deva powers on some kind of cooldown.


CST definitely should have a cool down but i mean ST doesn't have a cool down when used by Nagato. Cerberus keeps them busy after he divides several times. He also has the chameleon to hide in. Onoki's jinton is useless due to the preta path. Tsunade needs to attack closely to be effective and if thats the case then a chakra reciever blade through her and she's nagato's to control, as well as anyone else that tries to close combat him. ST was able to injure the Boss size Toads so CST not being able to kill let alone crazily injure them is comical. And Ei should be top priority to kill first with Cerberus and all the other summonings on the field the rest of them have their hands full so one on one with Ei and that cloak of his becomes a meal for preta path and he gets BT and soul ripped or BT and controlled by a chakra reciever. And with Ei controlled the match is sealed or with Ei out of the way like IceGaze s Nagato doesn't need to move to solo the rest


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## Joakim3 (Sep 20, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I honestly don't know about Nagato getting better with the Rinnegan.
> 
> So far doujutsu like Rinnegan seems to come with all their abilities unlocked.  The sharingan is the only one that has any requirements, but even then you automatically get your powers at full function once you hit the benchmark.  EX: when you get sharingan, you get bullet time.  When you get 3 tomoe, you get precog.  When you get MS, you get Ameterasu and MS Genjutsu.  Hate enough, and you get Susano (which levels up by hate)  Your byakugan are byakugan and do everything byakugan do.
> 
> We also have a bunch of stuff like Kakashi getting sharingan, and instantly being good enough to perfect raikiri.  Madara ripping out Kakashi's eye, and instantly using kamui.  Kakashi getting EMS, and instantly using Perfect Susano.  Obito unlocking Rinnegan, and killing about 50 Jonin and Mist Hunters with perfectly timed kamuis in an incoherent rage.  Rinnegan probably gives you ever path and elemental affinity from the outset, with the knowledge to make it work.  Else wise, he wouldn't have been able to use an jutsu, since no one else knew what the rinnegan powers were.  Then even if he needed some practice, Nagato, after being trained by Jiraiya, and spending years on the front lines in Akatsuki, should have been relatively close to his current self.  It's hard for me to imagine getting crippled, and dividing his power by 6, made him far better.



From a timeline persepctive Nagato had been using the _Pein Rikudo_ before Naruto was born..... that 17+ years of Rinnegan practice, I'd imagine one would get _substantially_ better


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 20, 2014)

Joakim3 said:


> Agree very much, but we've seen how reactive people who have dojutsu + sensing are...... unless we are talking S/T attacks blitzing them is neigh on impossible
> 
> Nagato thought to himself when sensed the chakra pressure/buildup as he wasn't actively paying attention to Itachi when he started using _Amaterasu_
> 
> RM Naruto has emotion sensing, not regular chakra sensing. While Nagato _seems_ to have passive sensing (when in control of his body) as he was aware of Naruto approaching his & Itachi's location



It should be noted that Itachi was right in front of him when he saw that.  Very much within visual range of his doujutsu.  That's not really any different from what he did 

Furthermore, Nagato's passive sensing can't be _that_ great.  He didn't detect Itachi's signature running around blinding all of his summons, or detect Itachi descending on him with susano to cut Naruto and Bee free, or detect Itachi forming Susano to tosuga blitz him.

Actually I just remembered Kabuto didn't know Nagato had sensing.  It still can't be that passive if Kabuto didn't even know it was there.  Though on the other hand, Nagato's always been super awesome with scrampling, projecting, and back tracing chakra signals.  He was able to baffle Inoichi's attempts at tracing, and change his signal, and surprise sensors in an active battlefield enviroment.  But his plan to find Naruto was to drag ninjas in to back alleys and ask them where Naruto was.


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 20, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> It should be noted that Itachi was right in front of him when he saw that.  Very much within visual range of his doujutsu.  That's not really any different from what he did
> 
> Furthermore, Nagato's passive sensing can't be _that_ great.  He didn't detect Itachi's signature running around blinding all of his summons, or detect Itachi descending on him with susano to cut Naruto and Bee free, or detect Itachi forming Susano to tosuga blitz him.


Can't forget he was being controlled by Kabuto


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## Ashi (Sep 20, 2014)

I don't think anyone weaker than Madara can defeat all 5 Kage


We still need to remember who these guys are lol


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## Joakim3 (Sep 20, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> It should be noted that Itachi was right in front of him when he saw that.  Very much within visual range of his doujutsu.  That's not really any different from what he did
> 
> Furthermore, Nagato's passive sensing can't be _that_ great.  He didn't detect Itachi's signature running around blinding all of his summons, or detect Itachi descending on him with susano to cut Naruto and Bee free, or detect Itachi forming Susano to tosuga blitz him.
> 
> Actually I just remembered Kabuto didn't know Nagato had sensing.  It still can't be that passive if Kabuto didn't even know it was there.  Though on the other hand, Nagato's always been super awesome with scrampling, projecting, and back tracing chakra signals.  He was able to baffle Inoichi's attempts at tracing, and change his signal, and surprise sensors in an active battlefield enviroment.  *But his plan to find Naruto was to drag ninjas in to back alleys and ask them where Naruto was.*



Naruto wasn't inside the village so there was quite literally no other way of getting info short of becoming Konoha's version of the gestapo


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 20, 2014)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Can't forget he was being controlled by Kabuto



I remembered that and edited.  But Nagato was in town, and still relied on the Rain jutsu and Konan scouting to find Jiraiya, instead of using sensing.  I think his strength is sensing might lie in projecting through his rods, changing signals, and tracing signals.  That's what he did with his paths all the time, and probably how he traced Nagato's edo transmissions.  It fits I think, but I don't know.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 20, 2014)

Joakim3 said:


> Naruto wasn't inside the village so there was quite literally no other way of getting info short of becoming Konoha's version of the gestapo



Yeah I was dumb with that.  The Jiraiya sensing is the better one.  

I've been responding to too many people and too many posts, so I'm going to start slipping factually if I continue.  I should stop for the day.  Been fun discussing stuff with everyone.

Sorry I never got to you, Lostself.


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 20, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Yeah I was dumb with that.  The Jiraiya sensing is the better one.
> 
> I've been responding to too many people and too many posts, so I'm going to start slipping factually if I continue.  I should stop for the day.  Been fun discussing stuff with everyone.
> 
> Sorry I never got to you, Lostself.


Yea lol i know whatchu mean


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## FlamingRain (Sep 20, 2014)

Joakim3 said:


> She saved a _portion_ of the village, unless you think all the people revived by _Rinne Tensei_ were _stabbed_ to death



Pain started killing people as soon as he got into the village, then Tsunade noticed, gave out orders, went to the roof to summon the giant slug and have her divide, and it was a couple minutes later that Tsunade remarked to the Anbu that she had attached to _nearly_ everyone. Then it was everyone by the time CST hit according to Katsuyu herself, but some people had already died before they got a super medicine slug as Tsunade was surprised she was coming across so many casualties.

So I think all the villagers revived by Rinne Tensei were killed prior to CST.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 20, 2014)

Kakashi was coming from the edge of the village when he encountered Pain.  Pain was on the outside moving toward the center.  Tsunade was in the center going outward.  Kakashi was one of the last to get slugged, and was already taking a non-pulse nap.  So that makes sense.  Most of the ninja who engaged Pain early on, which was quite a few, died.  

Kakashi and Shizune were going to heaven together.


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## ARGUS (Sep 20, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I chalk it up to being a puppeteered edo. Like how he used ST without flinching when Amaterasu had ate away most of his arm.


He was controlled by kabuto throughout the time, 
not that it matters since he can activate preta to absorb the flames with utmost ease



> And Preta path doesn't absorb momentum, *best case he takes away the lightning shroud, negating its piercing properties*. He doesn't do anything about the physical impact.
> And Nagato still turns into dust after taking an attack that did this to Madara's Susano'o : thought to himself when sensed the chakra pressure/buildup


*Preta nullified the entire effects of V2 Bees Lariat* which is much superior to Ays, 
not to mention that the lariat was still a taijutsu based attack, it was only the shroud that was absorbed, 

the physical impact of the attack is not doing shit, when the full attack of larait was negated
Ays raiiton armor gets absorbed leaving him defensless and makes him slow enough to allow nagato to restrain him through shurado, 
onokis weighted boulder jutsus affects are also rendered useless which was what that enabled them to destroy the susanooo, 

either onoki makes A heavier but slow and strong, or lighter but faster and weaker, 
whatever he does, their entire offense is negated 



> Like I said, preta doesn't absorb momentum. And shurado's limbs aren't doing shit to someone as fast as A.


When A loses his RNY, he is not getting that fast, therefore allowing shurado to restrain him, 
i have allready debunked the momentum argument, the momentum for Onoki and Ays offense is nothing andd is not doing shit 




> These claims all revolve around Nagato being able to physically do something about A which is impossible given his lack of speed feats.


He doesnt need to do anything physcially,, once Ays RNY is absorbed he is left defenseless, 
he is not blitzing nagato either, seeing how *Muu alone was able to sense Onoki and A well before they atttacked him* 
and unlike Muu, NAgato doesnt need  to evade the attack, when he can negate Onoki and Ays attacks effects through preta, and leave them defenseless
or he can nigh instantly activate ST and repel them 

Nagato doesnt need to have any speed, when his attacks are activated nigh instantly and can negate their attacks completely, 
he also doesnt even need to move in any of hi attacks, therefore he can just use ST to blow them off 



> Onoki isn't fighting alone here. Otherwise I agree, Nagato'd destroy Onoki with no difficulty, his arsenal completely negates Onoki's.


Yes



> when did this happen ?


He caught KCM Naruto through chamelleon andd overwhelmed him, with ease, 
had it not been for itachi, naruto would have been dead 



> Irrelevant. He sensed the "pressure"(chakra build up before the technique is actually used) not movement. He may sense that A is about to use Shunshin, that doesn't mean he'll be able to percieve A's movements. A could as well tell Nagato that he is about lose his head, that doesn't change anything.


Yes he can sense it and then perciieve it just how Muu did, 
Ays attacks are useless here, as i have explained above, 
he is not beheading him at all, 

and if A/Onoki attack nagato alone than they die, as i have explained above 



> Nope. And V2 B doesn't have comparable speed to A anyways. Not sure what that proves.


He certainly is faster than A without his Raiton Armor 
and if Nagato negated V2 Bees Lariat which is much stronger than Ays lateral chops or lariats, 
than A is not doing anyhting at all 


 [QUOTE[
Or they move @ a speed Nagato can't react properly to and rip his head off and play football with it..[/QUOTE]
Nagato can sense and activate his instant techniques such as ST to blow them away, 
or he can use preta to negate their attacks, and then either restrain them through shurado and chakra rods, or draw them in through BT and kill them off by ningendo 

what you have said above is laughable at best,


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 21, 2014)

Bansho tenin is not related to ST cool down 
Refer to chapter 438 
Right after deva ST was repelled by KN6 deva bansho tenin a huge rock to slam into KN6

No Nagato may even be harder to hit than we thought 

Nagato could very well pull a mountain down on them . Bar onoki it would kill the kages


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Sep 21, 2014)

Nagato wins Mid Difficulty.

He has been shown to have godly chakra reserves and can multi task by attacking one opponent and then shoot his laser cannons at another at the same time from his shoulder and or extra arms. Even if the Gokage bum rush him he can just use almighty push and then if they try to counter attack when he is recharging he can just spam lasers and missiles.

Im sorry but nagato doesn't screw around like madara does. He is more like Kakashi in which he doesn't F around.

The Gokage have a chance of beating him but more times then not Nagato wins due to overpowering them and spamming all his crazy AOE attacks. Not to mention being able to absorb every ninjutsu the Gokage have.


Nagato just has way to many ways to kill them. Again when has he ever screwed around in a fight like orochimaru and madara? Never. So he knows to show the gokage his best because he knows they are damn strong compared to the average shinobi but to him he is on a whole another level.

I also almost forgot to mention all his summons. If he summons every single beast he has having to fight him and all his beasts at the same time is just insane even for the gokage.

Thats my opinion any way.


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## Icegaze (Sep 22, 2014)

nagato mops the floor with the kage without ever needing to move. 
if a lariat from V2 which ripped apart kisame+samehada despite samehada absorbing killer bee chakra; did shit to nagato then heavy weight Ei punch wont do shit. 


you have to remember that ET body isnt more durable than normal body. 

eg: 3rd raikage as an ET still couldnt tank his own nikute however tanked FRS just fine. if the jutsu exceeds the actual person defense the ET would still be broken up and defeated. 

therefore all evidence points to the fact that even if nagato was alive he would have tanked V2 lariat with no damage worse is he didnt even use asura to amp his durability. 

So the 1 jutsu i actually thought could harm wont do shit. Nagato doesnt move an inch and kills them. with ease at most. 10% difficulty 

Lets not forget controlling a kage via rods or ripping soul out which is GG to all the kages.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 22, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> He was controlled by kabuto throughout the time,
> not that it matters since he can activate preta to absorb the flames with utmost ease



I am not saying that Nagato can't activate ST or Preta right after he is hit by Amaterasu. But the way he used ST when he was missing some body parts without flinching isn't something he can do unless he is a puppet.

Same goes for the lariat.



> *Preta nullified the entire effects of V2 Bees Lariat* which is much superior to Ays,
> not to mention that the lariat was still a taijutsu based attack, it was only the shroud that was absorbed,


It didn't nullfy the effects of the lariat. Nagato took the hit, he is bent over wrapped around B's arm. He got hit and he started absorbing the shroud while he was being dragged. 
So he took the* initial impact* straight to his chest.



> the physical impact of the attack is not doing shit, when the full attack of larait was negated


You don't get it do you ? 
Raiton armor doesn't make A stronger or heavier. It makes him more durable and increases his reaction speed. Absorbing the shroud after taking the hit won't have any effect on the damage inflicted on Nagato.



> Ays raiiton armor gets absorbed leaving him defensless


A without armor could still tank lightspeed travel, which left Tsunade wounded and forced her to use genesis rebirth. And Tsunade is pretty durable herself.



> and makes him slow enough to allow nagato to restrain him through shurado,


A without shroud still has reflexes comparable to Minato.



> onokis weighted boulder jutsus affects are also rendered useless which was what that enabled them to destroy the susanooo,


There is absolultey no evidence that Nagato can absorb that. Besides, like I already mentioned, even if he could, it would be meaningless after he took the hit. 



> either onoki makes A heavier but slow and strong, or lighter but faster and weaker,
> whatever he does, their entire offense is negated


What the fuck.



> When A loses his RNY, he is not getting that fast, therefore allowing shurado to restrain him,
> i have allready debunked the momentum argument, the momentum for Onoki and Ays offense is nothing andd is not doing shit


You didn't debunk shit.
Preta's barrier doesn't absorb momentum. It absorbs everything chakra based. So if the attack is solely made up of chakra, then yes, the momentum goes away with it.
There is a reason why preta didn't use absorbtion barrier to stop Kiba's attacks but instead he used a corpse to block it. 
Preta is useless against taijutsu.



> He doesnt need to do anything physcially,, once Ays RNY is absorbed he is left *defenseless*,


What is this based on ? 



> he is not blitzing nagato either, seeing how *Muu alone was able to sense Onoki and A well before they atttacked him*


Moving @ high speeds doesn't make someones chakra invisible. Sensors can still sense them.
But they can't react. Just like how Muu couldn't.



> and unlike Muu, NAgato doesnt need  to evade the attack, when he can negate Onoki and Ays attacks effects through preta, and leave them defenseless


I've been over this. Preta won't be of any help @ all.



> or he can nigh instantly activate ST and repel them


Nagato doesn't have any feats of reacting to anything as fast as V2 A, let alone lightened A.
So there is absolutely no reason to believe he'll be able to time his ST right.



> Nagato doesnt need to have any speed, when his attacks are activated nigh instantly and can negate their attacks completely,
> he also doesnt even need to move in any of hi attacks, therefore he can just use ST to blow them off


Sure, his attacks are instant. And those attacks are still bound by Nagato's reaction speed.
If he can't react to A, then he can't activate them. Simple as that.



> He caught KCM Naruto through chamelleon andd overwhelmed him, with ease,
> had it not been for itachi, naruto would have been dead


What does it have anything to do with Naruto's speed ? Naruto got grabbed by an invisible creature in mid air. And Nagato closed in on Naruto when he was restrained. Nagato and Naruto never fought directly.



> Yes he can sense it and then perciieve it just how Muu did,
> Ays attacks are useless here, as i have explained above,
> he is not beheading him at all,


You haven't explained anything. You keep saying that Nagato can react to lightened A because he can sense him. Which doesn't explain anything at all.




> and if A/Onoki attack nagato alone than they die, as i have explained above






> He certainly is faster than A without his Raiton Armor
> and if Nagato negated V2 Bees Lariat which is much stronger than Ays lateral chops or lariats,
> than A is not doing anyhting at all


Why are we debating A without raiton armor ? 




> Nagato can sense and activate his instant techniques such as ST to blow them away,
> or he can use preta to negate their attacks, and then either restrain them through shurado and chakra rods, or draw them in through BT and kill them off by ningendo
> 
> what you have said above is laughable at best,



Can you post Nagato's best reaction feat. Whats the fastest thing he reacted to ? 
And then lets make a comparison between that and lgithened V2 A. Because from what I understand from your post is that you think Nagato is omnipotent and can react to everything because he is a sensor.



Icegaze said:


> nagato mops the floor with the kage without ever needing to move.
> if a lariat from V2 which ripped apart kisame+samehada despite samehada absorbing killer bee chakra; did shit to nagato then heavy weight Ei punch wont do shit.
> 
> 
> ...



Why do people keep comparing B's V2 lariat to lightened A's punch ?


----------



## Joakim3 (Sep 22, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I am not saying that Nagato can't activate ST or Preta right after he is hit by Amaterasu. But the way he used ST when he was missing some body parts without flinching isn't something he can do unless he is a puppet.
> 
> Same goes for the lariat.



Nagato is an Uzumaki who's bodies are canonically more durable than your average person. If you want to start arguing the pain resistance, we are talking about a man that had his legs partially blown up and was still standing on them (without so much a flinch on his part) and then still willinlgy went on to injure himself more by syncing with Gedo Mazo

He'd be fine



Grimmjowsensei said:


> It didn't nullfy the effects of the lariat. Nagato took the hit, he is bent over wrapped around B's arm. He got hit and he started absorbing the shroud while he was being dragged.
> So he took the* initial impact* straight to his chest.



The fact that he wasn't ripped in half immediately shows testament to his durability, and your essentially shooting your own argument down

Ei's entire weighted punch strength comes from the mass increase... i.e kinetic energy, the same energy an emaciated Nagato tanked before absorbing Killer B's V2 cloak



Grimmjowsensei said:


> A without shroud still has reflexes comparable to Minato.
> 
> There is absolultey no evidence that Nagato can absorb that. Besides, like I already mentioned, even if he could, it would be meaningless after he took the hit.



Um where was this stated 

With a V2 shroud he has reflexes on par if not faster than Minato, but without it..... he wouldn't have been tagged by MS Sasuke while in V1



Grimmjowsensei said:


> You didn't debunk shit.
> Preta's barrier doesn't absorb momentum. It absorbs everything chakra based. So if the attack is solely made up of chakra, then yes, the momentum goes away with it.
> There is a reason why preta didn't use absorbtion barrier to stop Kiba's attacks but instead he used a corpse to block it.
> Preta is useless against taijutsu.



Thats fine, it still doesn't help Onoki & A's case as their weighted punch simply can't kill Nagato when he ate Killer B's V2 while in an emaciated condition that *kinetically* is stronger than theirs

Sure it's going to hurt, but all that happens is Nagato gunning after them solely 



Grimmjowsensei said:


> What is this based on ?



The fact that Killer B (who is easliy as durable as Ei without a V1) was going to have his face and upper torso removed by _Laser Explosion_



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Moving @ high speeds doesn't make someones chakra invisible. Sensors can still sense them.
> 
> But they can't react. Just like how Muu couldn't.



Physically not being able to react =/= mentally not being able to react

Muu could not physically move his body to counter Ei + Onoki despite mentally being able to sense and anticipate their movement 

Nagato can mentally react as well due to being a superior sensor and having dojustu, the deference is Nagato doesn't have to physically move to stop their attack as _Shinra Tensei_ activates instantly and they aren't fast enough to blitz him before his sensing gives him a warning



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Nagato doesn't have any feats of reacting to anything as fast as V2 A, let alone lightened A.
> So there is absolutely no reason to believe he'll be able to time his ST right.



Ei still has to build up chakra to V2 _Shunshin_..... If Nagato can anticipate Amaterasu buildup before it's even used, he'd be able to sense a Biju level chakra buildup of Ei attempting a V2 _Shunshin_

Who says Ei was in V2 when he was lightened? As that would mean Onoki has reactions that or on par or exceed roof tier reactions of people like V2 Ei, Kakashi, Minato etc..

And again, if Mu can sense them coming (while blinded), then Nagato who is a BETTER sensor than Mu will at worst be able to do the same. Your also forgetting the fact that Nagato doesn't have to wait until their up in his face to use ST?



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Sure, his attacks are instant. And those attacks are still bound by Nagato's reaction speed.
> If he can't react to A, then he can't activate them. Simple as that.



But again..... he can react to Ei, if he could sense Edo Itachi's _Amaterasu_ (and could have stopped it had it not been him being an Edo), he can sense Ei's V2 _Shunshin_ build up and defend accordingly 



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Can you post Nagato's best reaction feat. Whats the fastest thing he reacted to ?
> And then lets make a comparison between that and lgithened V2 A. Because from what I understand from your post is that you think Nagato is omnipotent and can react to everything because he is a sensor.



The build up of _Amaterasu_, something that Ei requires V2 to counter and avoid. Not including Nagato's own sensing.... pulling a Raikagenaut while exhausted and fighting through Tendo or him being able to visually perceive Kakashi _Kamui_ on Shurado's missile 

Short of god-tier level ninjustu like 8th Gate, Sasuke's S/T or Dual Kamui....... If a person can react to _Amaterasu_ or a FRS from <4m.... they can react to just about anything



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Why do people keep comparing B's V2 lariat to lightened A's punch ?



Because Killer B's V2 Lariat would be comically more powerful than Ei's weight enhanced punch when Killer B's V1 lariat completely obliterated the football field sized platform he and Taka were fighting on 

So unless they get INCREDIBLY lucky with a head shot (assuming Nagato is on cool down), only Tsunade has the physical strength to actually kill Nagato using solely taijutsu


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## Icegaze (Sep 22, 2014)

@grimmjaw because Bee vs lariat >>> Ei punch 
now when made heavier they could be comparable. 

considering base bee in strength>Ei 

so it stands to reason that V2 bee >>Ei strength hence the comparison between the 2. if nagato can take V2 lariat without moving while Ei is sent flying by a base lariat it stands to reason that nagato is quite the tank himself 

honestly i dont see what you dont get. base bee is physically comparable to Ei and after his shroud was absorbed all that was left was base bee if base bee attack straigh to the chest aint doing jack shit you cant try to make anyone believe that Ei would fair better 

Ei sai his attacks re more powerful the faster he moves if his shroud is absorbed on contact the momentum of his punch takes a dramatic speed dive. 

as i have said before nagato doesnt move and kills all kages


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 22, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> @grimmjaw because Bee vs lariat >>> Ei punch
> now when made heavier they could be comparable.
> 
> considering base bee in strength>Ei
> ...





Joakim3 said:


> Because Killer B's V2 Lariat would be comically more powerful than Ei's weight enhanced punch when Killer B's V1 lariat completely obliterated the football field sized platform he and Taka were fighting on
> 
> So unless they get INCREDIBLY lucky with a head shot (assuming Nagato is on cool down), only Tsunade has the physical strength to actually kill Nagato using solely taijutsu




I am going to reply to the rest of the post later. 

But I'll just leave it here : 
Kirabi's regular V2 lariat on Nagato :  completely obliterated the football field sized platform he and Taka were fighting on


Kirabi's stronger V2 lariat(notice the bone structure) on Kisame Link removed    



How Susano'o is dragged a hundred meters, going through rocks and shit after it is hit by A's punch  :  



So I'll ask again. How are they even comparable ? 
The impact of A's hit should be million times stronger than B's V2 lariat.


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## Joakim3 (Sep 22, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I am going to reply to the rest of the post later.
> 
> But I'll just leave it here :
> Kirabi's regular V2 lariat on Nagato :



Which logically should be *substantially* stronger than what Killer B used to obliterate a mountain top and send Taka rag dolling to the bottom of the valley

Seeing Killer B is canonically stronger then V1 Ei... in base... I don't see where your going with this? Ei needs to amp himself up to Max V2 to replicate strength feats that a 3 tailed V1 Killer B could dish out while rhyming (like nuking a mountain top) 



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Kirabi's stronger V2 lariat(notice the bone structure) on Kisame



Samehada cushioned and absorbed a significant portion of the impact, and Kisame was still left in a state similar to Sasuke, granted Kisame was hit by a 6 tailed V1 B, not a 3 tailed one. If Kisame was hit without Samehada by a V2 Killer B he would have been cleaved in half like a machete through pudding, along with whatever was behind him.. no iffs ands or buts (and Kisame is the same person who ate a _Hirudora_ in the face)

I doubt the addition of bones adds to the kinetic impact of something that in a vastly lesser form can obliterate mountains tops (and the bones are still chakra based FYI) so they were absorbed regardless



Grimmjowsensei said:


> How Susano'o is dragged a hundred meters, going through rocks and shit after it is hit by A's punch  :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd think obliterating the entire 100m landscape is more impressive than dragging a truck sized object 100m

Again.... Killer B did this in one of his lowest forms.... he had 3 tails in V1, let alone 6 (like when he hit Kisame), which still isn't a full 8..... and thats before we even get into V2 Territory which has so much chakra it creates shockwaves and craters just from entering it


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## Pocalypse (Sep 22, 2014)

I don’t see Nagato winning here. His Chibaku Tensei still takes time for people and everything in the background to get sucked in, since Itachi/Naruto/Bee had plenty of time to talk and devise a plan. With Onoki’s Jinton it will destroy the core, if it was implied that he can bust an island within his range then the core shouldn’t be a problem. 

Either way I don’t see Nagato being able to use CT in time. The Gokage are pretty much covered with Katsuyu’s clones so Shinra Tensei won’t be a problem for them. Gaara’s desert could provide a defence also against ST since Naruto used his clones to stop himself from being pushed further and KN6 dug its tails on the ground to stop being pushed further himself, the Gokage can replicate the same feat if Gaara traps the Gokage’s feet on the ground, then once the 5 second limit ends, Raikage with Onoki can blitz Nagato, with Tsunade as backup for extra measure.


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## Icegaze (Sep 22, 2014)

@grimjaw 
You don't seem to get it the impact of Ei punch will be substainly reduced because the speed would be reduced once he looses his cloak. weak sick Nagato tanked V2 so why on earth would a healthy Nagato using asura tanking abilities not survive a heavy weighted punch from back pack 
Also note this is irrelevant really cuz ST flatness Ei 

Nagato doesn't even need to react he just needs to use ST the instant Ei leaves his original position 

You do not get how useful ST is especially when during the 5s cool down other jutsu can be used


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## Pocalypse (Sep 22, 2014)

Dude, Nagato isn't fucking Barragan where he has a time-dilation field around him to slow down opponent's movements


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## StickaStick (Sep 22, 2014)

How is Oonoki going to destroy the core when Nagato can disrupt him with ST and BT? This isn't mind-controlled Nagato who just stood around and watched while Itachi, Naruto, and Bee conversed among themselves. He'll actually continue to fuck them up while the core is being formed.


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 22, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> I don’t see Nagato winning here. His Chibaku Tensei still takes time for people and everything in the background to get sucked in, since Itachi/Naruto/Bee had plenty of time to talk and devise a plan. With Onoki’s Jinton it will destroy the core, if it was implied that he can bust an island within his range then the core shouldn’t be a problem.
> 
> Either way I don’t see Nagato being able to use CT in time. The Gokage are pretty much covered with Katsuyu’s clones so Shinra Tensei won’t be a problem for them. Gaara’s desert could provide a defence also against ST since Naruto used his clones to stop himself from being pushed further and KN6 dug its tails on the ground to stop being pushed further himself, the Gokage can replicate the same feat if Gaara traps the Gokage’s feet on the ground, then once the 5 second limit ends, Raikage with Onoki can blitz Nagato, with Tsunade as backup for extra measure.


With a CST at the beginning to kill some off and disperse them while summonings like Cerberus also helps keep them busy Nagato takes out Onoki and once he's out the way CT takes care of the rest. Or as an alternative he uses the same method takes out Ei first then he doesn't need to move to solo the rest. And he also has the chameleon so he can take the sensor of the group out first hide in the chameleon from time to time sneak up on some one like tsunade or Onoki use chakra recievers blades on them and then they're are Nagato's to control and with that being said sayonara gokage


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 22, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Dude, Nagato isn't fucking Barragan where he has a time-dilation field around him to slow down opponent's movements


With that attempt of Ei coming at nagato he gets his cloaked absorbed then tanks the hit and afterward Ei gets hit with the chakra reciever rod and you know the rest. Honestly coming at Nagato won't be smart


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## BurningVegeta (Sep 22, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> He was, that's why Nagato could attack Itachi. There's a reason Nagato was using Hell Realm and other powers just as Kabuto was saying he'll use those powers like that.
> 
> Now that has plenty of evidence. You just pulled the "he was blood lusted" info out of your ass. Reason being that you missed the very obvious panels of Kabuto being in total control. Unless you think blood lust makes you forget basic skills like sensing; an ability Kabuto was unaware of.
> 
> ...


You think Kabuto knows the abilities of Nagato? Okay. The fact that he didn't know skillset within the abilities of Itachi makesis strong enough case to say he wasn't controlling every move Nagato made. 

I'm not pulling anything out of my ass... you'll notice how Nagato stopped talking to Naruto an Kirabi, he was in a state of bloodlust.


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## Icegaze (Sep 23, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Dude, Nagato isn't fucking Barragan where he has a time-dilation field around him to slow down opponent's movements



 its the cloak that makes Ei super fast if the cloak is instantly removed do you think Ei hand would still move at the same speed?? 
how else do you think that bee lariat that is capable of tearing out kisame chest did nothing to a weak body nagato?? 
Ei has specifically said the faster he moves the stronger he hits. hence why at max cloak he hits alot harder than just with his regular cloak. 

its irrelevant since Ei cannot exploit the 5s ST. especially if nagato reserves its use only to deal with Ei since he really doesnt need it to deal with the other kages. 


i doubt Ei can be sent flying and come back to nagato in under 5 seconds


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## Butterfly (Sep 25, 2014)

sanninme rikudo said:


> With a CST at the beginning to kill some off and disperse them while summonings like Cerberus also helps keep them busy Nagato takes out Onoki and once he's out the way CT takes care of the rest. Or as an alternative he uses the same method takes out Ei first then he doesn't need to move to solo the rest. And he also has the chameleon so he can take the sensor of the group out first hide in the chameleon from time to time sneak up on some one like tsunade or Onoki use chakra recievers blades on them and then they're are Nagato's to control and with that being said sayonara gokage



CST at the beginning isn't going to work. B, Naruto and Itachi had time to converse and make a plan re: it. Tsunade can summon Katsuyu to protect them from the crushing, or Gaara's sand could possibly do the same thing. Onoki can jinton it and Tsunade can chakra battery into him. 

The summonings are absolutely useless trash here. Any 1 Kage here except Gaara can casually solo them before a hot pocket is cooked in the microwave. Hell, Tsunade + Onoki could just turn them into dust before they even exit. 

The chameleon isn't going to work either. Tsunade's hearing was acute enough to listen to Orochimaru's heartbeat, and she was able to evade attacks by the _sound_ of the ground coming apart. She can kill it in one hit and Onoki's flying will make it hard for the chameleon to get in range, as he typically levitates given his short stature (and I'm almost positive he's not deaf enough to not hear the chameleon approaching). Additionally, Tsunade can just summon Katsuyu to survey the areas for her and she knows about the chameleon through katsuyu too.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 25, 2014)

Empathy said:


> Then how did Madara's unstable perfect _Susanoo_ cut through that jinton construction if it can bypass all durability?



What instance are you referring to?



> Reason: Mistaken.



Okay.


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## Bonly (Sep 25, 2014)

Butterfly said:


> CST at the beginning isn't going to work. B, Naruto and Itachi had time to converse and make a plan re: it. Tsunade can summon Katsuyu to protect them from the crushing, or Gaara's sand could possibly do the same thing. Onoki can jinton it and Tsunade can chakra battery into him.



Naruto,B,and Itachi had time to do that when CT was up, CST is basically just a very large ST which might not leave time for them to try everything you listed, well depending on the distance it'll change what they can try though they might not expect it to try much of a defense against it at all


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 25, 2014)

The only use of CST involved Nagato floating up into the sky, and had an existent prep time where everyone got to watch what he was doing.

While I think that Nagato might have less prep, as he doesn't need to shut down other bodies, he still needs to build up a CST amount of chakra, and he'll probably float up or do something theatrical, as is the case with immense jutsu.  It's at least enough for Tsunade, who has firsthand knowledge of the technique, to summon Katsuya, assuming she isn't already out on the field for just such an occassion.


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## Bonly (Sep 25, 2014)

There really wasn't much prep had or suggested to be needed. All he did was have Deva path get in a good spot to mess up Konoha. Afterwords he got the other paths+Konan(or her clone) out of the village, shut them down pretty much instantly bar animal path, told Konan he was gonna do it then poof ST. If anything all that happened within a minute, maybe a minute and a half at the most. If Nagato was to use it right off the bat like sanninme rikudo suggest, I highly doubt he'd do something theatrical with it.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 25, 2014)

Pen-ultimate techniques tend not to be unfairly instant.


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## Bonly (Sep 25, 2014)

May not be instant but it should be pretty quick either way and since only Tsunade knows about CST(vaguely) and none of them can really tell when it's coming, depending on the distance they likely won't be able to do much for defense.


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## Empathy (Sep 25, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> What instance are you referring to?
> 
> 
> 
> Okay.



You caught that pretty fast (even before I edited it and then deleted it a few minutes after). I checked the page immediately after posting to make sure I wasn't wrong (I was); Madara formed his _Susanoo_ behind the jinton cube and not to block it from within, like I originally thought.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 26, 2014)

Bonly said:


> May not be instant but it should be pretty quick either way and since only Tsunade knows about CST(vaguely) and none of them can really tell when it's coming, depending on the distance they likely won't be able to do much for defense.



Gaara's defences reacted to Madara's spamming forests below their feet with no knowledge, or from the knowledge shouted to him as he was defending.

Tsunade can save everyone with a clap.  I can picture Nagato charging a CST, and Tsunade having a little thought bubble that goes, "This is bad," while biting her thumb. With everyone else looking stunned, or someone, probably Ei or Onoki, saying, "What's he doing?"  Then the attack goes off, and they're all in Katsuya, and Tsunade says, "I made just in time."  

Then Ei gets all hot for her again, and Onoki says that this is the Hokage's summon from all those times back in the war, but his speech bubble gets miss-attributed to Mei and the whole forum makes fun of her for being older than she let on.

I can see that and many other things easier than I can see the Gokage standing before Nagato, and getting one paneled out of existence by a no warning super jutsu.  After all, Guy's 8th gate was hyped to be a power that surpasses the Gokage.  (Graduated from the initial claim that it allows you to surpass a kage.)  Not the power to surpass Nagato, or the power to rival a single Cho Shinra Tensei.


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## Bonly (Sep 26, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Gaara's defences reacted to Madara's spamming forests below their feet with no knowledge, or from the knowledge shouted to him as he was defending.



Gaara saw the jutsu being used afar on Onoki+A at first while it started to move towards them. It's not like it instantly popped up right under him from out of nowhere and he did such a thing, he had warning to react to it. 



> Tsunade can save everyone with a clap.  I can picture Nagato charging a CST, and Tsunade having a little thought bubble that goes, "This is bad," while biting her thumb. With everyone else looking stunned, or someone, probably Ei or Onoki, saying, "What's he doing?"  Then the attack goes off, and they're all in Katsuya, and Tsunade says, "I made just in time."
> 
> Then Ei gets all hot for her again, and Onoki says that this is the Hokage's summon from all those times back in the war, but his speech bubble gets miss-attributed to Mei and the whole forum makes fun of her for being older than she let on



But how is she gonna know this again? She's barely seen ST in actual use, she's only seen it when Deva used CST and he was god knows how far up in the sky compared to her. ST can be used even without the user sticking out their hands if they want. And Tsunade also isn't a sensor type so how is see gonna know he's charging up some chakra?  



> I can see that and many other things easier than I can see the Gokage standing before Nagato, and getting one paneled out of existence by a no warning super jutsu.



Then we see the manga differently, I don't see the Kages doing much(if anything at all depending on the distance) to defend against something that has little warning and only one of them have a vague idea about if Nagato was to use it right off the bat.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 26, 2014)

> Gaara saw the jutsu being used afar on Onoki+A at first while it started to move towards them. It's not like it instantly popped up right under him from out of nowhere and he did such a thing, he had warning to react to it.



Gaara's sand is faster than Ameterasu spawning.


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## Bonly (Sep 26, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Gaara's sand is faster than Ameterasu spawning.



Since when?


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 26, 2014)

Butterfly said:


> CST at the beginning isn't going to work. B, Naruto and Itachi had time to converse and make a plan re: it. Tsunade can summon Katsuyu to protect them from the crushing, or Gaara's sand could possibly do the same thing. Onoki can jinton it and Tsunade can chakra battery into him.
> 
> The summonings are absolutely useless trash here. Any 1 Kage here except Gaara can casually solo them before a hot pocket is cooked in the microwave. Hell, Tsunade + Onoki could just turn them into dust before they even exit.
> 
> The chameleon isn't going to work either. Tsunade's hearing was acute enough to listen to Orochimaru's heartbeat, and she was able to evade attacks by the _sound_ of the ground coming apart. She can kill it in one hit and Onoki's flying will make it hard for the chameleon to get in range, as he typically levitates given his short stature (and I'm almost positive he's not deaf enough to not hear the chameleon approaching). Additionally, Tsunade can just summon Katsuyu to survey the areas for her and she knows about the chameleon through katsuyu too.


How are summonings useless? Cerberus multiplies every time it's hit. After multiplying several times you know how many summonings are going to be on the field and im not even counting the other summonings like chameleon etc. You said any 1 kage can solo them only Onoki has a chance since he has Jinton. the rest just get kept busy by Cerberus since he'll keep multiplying. and with CT they had time to plan CST is almost if not instant. And it doesn't matter if Tsunade cam hear the chameleon which i doubt but it doesn;t change the fact that she's still getting soloed and you do realize once Ei is soloed Nagato doesn't need to move to end the rest


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## Joakim3 (Sep 26, 2014)

Butterfly said:


> The summonings are absolutely useless trash here. Any 1 Kage here except Gaara can casually solo them before a hot pocket is cooked in the microwave. Hell, Tsunade + Onoki could just turn them into dust before they even exit.



I don't know where to start  

Baring Onoki and _possibly_ Tsunade, Nagato's summon armada could beat *every single Kage individually*. None of them have the ability to kill Cerberus (or stop if from multiply) when it withstood an RM powered FRS, nor do any have a thread of hope of outlasting Nagato in a war of attrition, and thats before factoring the 6-7 other Summons to simply swarm said Kage.

Oh and thank god Gedo Mazo is restricted



Butterfly said:


> The chameleon isn't going to work either. Tsunade's hearing was acute enough to listen to Orochimaru's heartbeat, and she was able to evade attacks by the _sound_ of the ground coming apart. She can kill it in one hit and Onoki's flying will make it hard for the chameleon to get in range, as he typically levitates given his short stature (and I'm almost positive he's not deaf enough to not hear the chameleon approaching). Additionally, Tsunade can just summon Katsuyu to survey the areas for her and she knows about the chameleon through katsuyu too.



The Chameleon was able to sneak up on RM Naruto, someone who can emotion sense the Neo Pein Rikudo, and was capable of hiding from Jiraiya until Shima & Fukusaku were summoned and put up a physical barrier, If they couldn't find it.... Tsunade isn't finding that summon with "hearing alone"

Nagato himself uses the Chameleon as transport, almost never independently as a stand alone summon so it attacking by itself will almost never happen unless Nagato is in the immediate vicinity. Apart from Gaara spreading his sand out and the Chameleon physically rubbing against it they are never finding Nagato in that thing.... and since Nagato can see chakra, he'd know where Gaara's sand is as well, so that tactic falls on its face too 

The Gokage get the RM Naruto, Itachi & Killer B treatment and get Invisa-Shinra Tenseid into oblivion, at which point Nagato just pics off the lot while the Summons merely stall, act as cannon fodder or provide distractions


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 26, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Since when?



Sine he blocked ameterasu with it.

O rly?

Curiously this translation is flipped from the one I read back in the day.  The one I recall said, "You guarded against my enton/ametersu.  I see your absolute defence is as strong as ever."  Which makes sense, because it showed fire attacking the sand.  

This one implies Sasuke needed Ameterasu defensively to keep up with the sand, which doesn't flow as nicely with the comment on an absolute defence.

O rly?

The anime went with the first, and what I think is the more accurate translation and notion.


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## Bonly (Sep 26, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Sine he blocked ameterasu with it.
> 
> O rly?
> 
> ...



That's not Ama, that's Enton though which don't share the same speed and we can pretty much see the ball of Enton on top of Sasuke's Susanoo so Gaara sand isn't "faster than Ameterasu spawning" , not based on that instance. Could say Gaara's sand was fast enough to react to Sasuke throwing blobs of Enton from that ball though


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## Dominus (Sep 26, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Sine he blocked ameterasu with it.
> 
> O rly?
> 
> ...



[sp][/sp]


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 26, 2014)

> None of them have the ability to kill Cerberus (or stop if from multiply)



Tsunade's Raishinsho, Onoki's super heavy weight technique, jinton disintegration, and Gaara's sand pryamid sealing technique all come to mind as options that stop the doggy and prevent it from multiplying.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 26, 2014)

Authoritah said:


> [sp][/sp]



You are awesome.


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## Joakim3 (Sep 26, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Tsunade's Raishinsho, Onoki's super heavy weight technique, jinton disintegration, and Gaara's sand pryamid sealing technique all come to mind as options that stop the doggy and prevent it from multiplying.



I said baring Onoki and Tsunade...

Nagato can force the dog to split at will, Gaara gets flattened before he gets a chance or the other summons simply bust it open


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 26, 2014)

The dog doesn't split at will.

It splits as a response to damage.  As per the rules of the jutsu cast on it.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 26, 2014)

Gaara can just burry the dog without allowing it to split. He is a pretty solid counter. 

Mei's acid could arguably replicate what Amaterasu did. 

A & Tsunade can throw it to the orbit. 

Onoki can erase it with jinton or just incapacitate it with weight alteration.

That summon isn't beating a Kage.


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 26, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> The dog doesn't split at will.
> 
> It splits as a response to damage.  As per the rules of the jutsu cast on it.


Nagato can just attack it himself to split


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 26, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Gaara can just burry the dog without allowing it to split. He is a pretty solid counter.
> 
> Mei's acid could arguably replicate what Amaterasu did.
> 
> ...


Once Cerberus multiplies several times the Kages are kept busy with them along with the other summoning while Nagato solos them or sticks a chakra reciever in them to control one of them. Or like i said earlier just solo Ei and he doesn't need to move for the rest


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## Ashi (Sep 26, 2014)

Bonly said:


> That's not Ama, that's Enton though which don't share the same speed and we can pretty much see the ball of Enton on top of Sasuke's Susanoo so Gaara sand isn't "faster than Ameterasu spawning" , not based on that instance. Could say Gaara's sand was fast enough to react to Sasuke throwing blobs of Enton from that ball though



Sasuke can't just throw blobs of Enton he needs to shape it first then launch it


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## Bonly (Sep 26, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Sasuke can't just throw blobs of Enton he needs to shape it first then launch it



*A blob of Enton* being thrown and you can see the ball of Enton on top of Susanoo. Not rocket science to figure out the rest


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 26, 2014)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Nagato can just attack it himself to split



That's incredibly out of character and sort of a waste considering his attacks are better served attacking his opponents.  But I suppose if he wanted to he could.


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## Pocalypse (Sep 26, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> That's incredibly out of character and sort of a waste considering his attacks are better served attacking his opponents.  But I suppose if he wanted to he could.



But wouldn't you find it amusing if that actually happened? 

Attacking his own summons mid battle lol


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## StickaStick (Sep 26, 2014)

Pardon me since I haven't read the last few pages, but has anyone come up with an answer for how the Gokage would stop CT working from the premise that they start off with no knowledge of it?


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 26, 2014)

The Format said:


> Pardon me since I haven't read the last few pages, but has anyone come up with an answer for how the Gokage would stop CT working from the premise that they start off with no knowledge of it?


Someone said Onoki with his Jinton so i say place his summonings on the field solo Onoki then CT the rest


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## StickaStick (Sep 26, 2014)

Yeah, someone said the same thing earlier in the thread. Problem is, Nagato should have enough knowledge on the Gokage to know Oonoki is the only real threat to breaking the core so would probably focus on taking him out first---say with a blitz BT + Soul Rip. Then it's CT GG as far as I can tell.


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## LostSelf (Sep 26, 2014)

Using super charged Jinton on the core. Maybe they can figure out that they need to destroy the black ball, though.

But i don't know what can they do if Nagato runs towards them with the sphere in hand and places it in the middle of all of them.

Possibilities, possibilities... .


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## Joakim3 (Sep 26, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> The dog doesn't split at will.
> 
> It splits as a response to damage.  As per the rules of the jutsu cast on it.



The dog was stabbed and then flattened by Gamabunta landing on it..... and it didn't divide what so ever until half a chapter later with Gamabunta still  sitting on it. It (or rather Nagato) was also causing it to split at will when he fought Jiraiya

Now what sounds more logical, the dog not splitting after being impaled through the midsection and magically splitting after being sat upon, or Nagato forcing the dog to split so it can escape Gambunta restraining it? I wouldn't understand why Nagato wouldn't have the ability to *force* or control the amounting splitting of the dog? He's is after all controlling every single action the paths or summons do..


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## Bonly (Sep 26, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> The dog doesn't split at will.
> 
> It splits as a response to damage.  As per the rules of the jutsu cast on it.



Actually the dog has canonly split at will before so if it wants to it could.


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## Joakim3 (Sep 26, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Gaara can just burry the dog without allowing it to split. He is a pretty solid counter.



Gaara doesn't have a desert to work with here, and thats assuming his sand is physically strong enough to restrain Cerberus, when this shit was foddered 



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Mei's acid could arguably replicate what Amaterasu did.



Um being douced acid not the same as being set on fire by _Amaterasu_, seeing one spreads and the other doesn't, at best it slows the dog (or dogs) down



Grimmjowsensei said:


> A & Tsunade can throw it to the orbit.



Tsuande dies as she physically can't kill it, and he nerve scrambling technique may arguably not work as Nagato's chakra is what powers the summons/paths, not their own physiology.

A gets his shit fucking stomped... He was barely holding up V3 _Sasuno'o_ clone (granted with one arm), something Cerberus would use a a fucking chew toy based open the strength feats and size of Boss Summons



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Onoki can erase it with jinton or just incapacitate it with weight alteration.



I already said Onoki can beat Cerberus quite handily 



Grimmjowsensei said:


> That summon isn't beating a Kage.



It can beat Gaara due to the OP's location, it bulldozes it's way through andy and all of Mei's attacks when an FRS failed to stop it, Ei dies via battle of attrition, Tsunade is a toss up and Onoki is self explanatory


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 26, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> Using super charged Jinton on the core. Maybe they can figure out that they need to destroy the black ball, though.
> 
> But i don't know what can they do if Nagato runs towards them with the sphere in hand and places it in the middle of all of them.
> 
> Possibilities, possibilities... .


Lmaoo imagine that Nagato running towards them with the sphere that be funny as hell


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## Joakim3 (Sep 26, 2014)

The Format said:


> Pardon me since I haven't read the last few pages, but has anyone come up with an answer for how the Gokage would stop CT working from the premise that they start off with no knowledge of it?



pray Onoki is smart enough to launch Jinton at it

If his will falters like it did against Madara, well they all die


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 26, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Actually the dog has canonly split at will before so if it wants to it could.



Right, right.

The thing gets more heads when damaged, and then it splits.  More damage means more heads means more bodies means more power.  Or something.  I should go read the jutsu description again.


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## Joakim3 (Sep 26, 2014)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Lmaoo imagine that Nagato running towards them with the sphere that be funny as hell



That would so trollish


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## Bonly (Sep 27, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Right, right.
> 
> The thing gets more heads when damaged, and then it splits.  More damage means more heads means more bodies means more power.  Or something.  I should go read the jutsu description again.





> The heads multiply with each hit!!
> An endlessly continuing attack Samsara*
> 
> [picture of Pain's multi-headed dog summon]
> ...



With the way it's worded it seems like the condition could possible change if Nagato wanted though no clue how he'd go about it if he could


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## Lord Aizen (Sep 27, 2014)

nagato in his prime destroys. every single one of them cant do anything to nagato. itll only take 5 bansho tenins and 5 soul rips to end this and there is nothing they can do. The speed and force of both tenchiques is so high its hopeless for the gokage.


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