# Zabuza vs. Sound 4



## bleakwinter (Jan 25, 2013)

Restrictions: None
Knowledge: Full 
Battlefield: Great Naruto Bridge
Starting Distance: 20 meters. 
State of Mind: IC


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## Samehadaman (Jan 25, 2013)

I think Zabuza should get Haku to help out. I think the Sound 4 combined are a bit much for him, Kidomaru webs and Tayuya sound genjutsu give them the tools to fight in the mist. The bridge doesn't favor Kidomaru ambushes, but it also reduces the effectiveness of the mist since a bridge is easier to navigate blindly than a forest or city. If Kidomaru shoots randomly he might land, in a straight line bridge... Or block the path with webs. Tayuya besides the genjutsu can have the three summons walking in line "clearing out" the bridge with the 4 closeby in a tight pack.
And I don't see Zabuza with the firepower to beat Jirobo and Sakon/Ukon together in brute combat with Kidomaru supporting from range and Tayuya's three summons jumping him, even with his water techniques having a water source nearby.


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## Bonly (Jan 25, 2013)

Zabuza loses. Zabuza can't really stop Tayuya from putting him in a genjutsu since he likely wouldn't be fast enough to do it with Kidomaru shooting webs in the general area infront of them.


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## Shinryu (Jan 25, 2013)

Tayuya mindfucks
Kidomaru snipes/binds


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## Samehadaman (Jan 25, 2013)

I suggest limiting cursed seal or giving Haku to fight alongside Zabuza, either of those make it rather even in my opinion...
And remember Shikamaru broke out of the genjutsu, it would be believable for either Zabuza or Haku to manage that.


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## Chaotic Gangsta (Jan 25, 2013)

Kidomaru and Tayuya solo


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## Sablés (Jan 25, 2013)

Zabuza stomps, Sound 4 were chunin level. 

A guy who could hang with Kakashi physically and even defeat him isn't losing to guys who couldn't beat the Leaf Genin.

He sets up HMJ and proceeds to systematically one-shot each of them .


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## Bonly (Jan 25, 2013)

~King of Heroes~ said:


> Zabuza stomps, Sound 4 were chunin level.
> 
> A guy who could hang with Kakashi physically and even defeat him *isn't losing to guys who couldn't beat the Leaf Genin.*
> He sets up HMJ and proceeds to systematically one-shot each of them .



I guess this means that Zabuza could beat Kakuzu,Pain and the 3rd Raikage since they failed to kill the leaf Genin Naruto. Great logic there bud.


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## Sablés (Jan 25, 2013)

Bonly said:


> I guess this means that Zabuza could beat Kakuzu,Pain and the 3rd Raikage since they failed to kill the leaf Genin Naruto. Great logic there bud.



Funny because the term wasn't used to describe the Leaf Genin's status, it was meant to incorporate them as a whole unless you'd prefer I call them by their individual names. The strength of the Leaf Genin was nothing to behold at that point in time, certainly not something one of the 7 Swordsmen would need to fear.

Either way, they have no counter for Zabuza's Hidden Mist Technique nor do they have the durability feats to suggest they could survive a single one of his blows.


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## raizen28 (Jan 25, 2013)

IC Zabuza sets up a Usual Hidden Mist.

Zabuza will likely have some Water clones placed too for added diversion.


Zabuza's Silent Killing is still very formidable and the Sound 4 will have to really be defensive in the mist by either sensing Zabuza somehow or disrupting the area of effect with their own Attacks and Ninjutsu.


If Not, Then Zabuza plays stealthy assassin and tries to pick the sound 4 off one by one.


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## Santoryu (Jan 25, 2013)

Zabuza should take it.

The Sound 4 had to resort to their C2 forms against Genma and Raidou-who wern't even fully-fledged Jonin at the time. The sound 4 were exhausted after their battle if I remember correctly. In terms of potrayal and hype, Zabuza is significantly above either of those Tokubetsu-Jōnin. 



> A guy who could hang with Kakashi physically *and even defeat him*[/B]




Are you referring to when Kakashi got caught in the water prison? To be fair, Kakashi had to protect fodder during the early parts of that fight, but Zabuza even stated that "we'll settle this later" implying he hadn't won. We saw how the fight panned out after Kakashi fought him head on, without going back to protect fodder-he held him off with a Kunai and overwhelmed him with Suiton.

But Zabuza did indeed did manage to keep pace with part 1 Kakashi, and gave him a run for his money-which is better than anything the Sound 4 have achieved.


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## Sablés (Jan 25, 2013)

Santoryu said:


> Zabuza should take it.
> 
> The Sound 4 had to resort to their C2 forms against Genma and Raidou-who wern't even fully-fledged Jonin at the time. The sound 4 were exhausted after their battle if I remember correctly. In terms of potrayal and hype, Zabuza is significantly above either of those Tokubetsu-Jōnin.
> 
> ...


I don't remember their fight all that clearly so I'll take your word for it.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jan 25, 2013)

The tasteful answer is that zabuza takes it with mid diff at best due to hidden mist + silent kill combo. The sound four have no real durability feats to say they can withstand being hacked at by the beheader blade(especially when zabuza gets to aiming for vitals).

Kidomaru blindly setting up his webs to protect his teammates against a man they cannot even see before zabuza slices all them down is not likely. Zabuza was able to penetrate a manji formation as easy as it is to breath.

A serious zabuza going for the kill is a big load i do not think they can carry.


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## Bonly (Jan 25, 2013)

~King of Heroes~ said:


> Funny because the term wasn't used to describe the Leaf Genin's status, it was meant to incorporate them as a whole *unless you'd prefer I call them by their individual names*. The strength of the Leaf Genin was nothing to behold at that point in time, certainly not something one of the 7 Swordsmen would need to fear.
> 
> Either way, they have no counter for Zabuza's Hidden Mist Technique nor do they have the durability feats to suggest they could survive a single one of his blows.



Yes I would . By the end of the SRA they would've given him some problems if he fought them. Choji and his huge expanding could've crushed him. Neji's Byakugan,taijutsu skills,rotation,and putting up a field of chakra to help find Zabuza. Ect.

Sure they haven't shown the durabilties feats to suggest they can take a hit from him but he hasn't shown what it takes to counter to their genjutsu or the webs which swords can't cut(as stated by Sasuke during the war) and can hold two elephant (via Kidomaru). He has no counter to getting out of the earth dome that sucks chakra nor does he have a way to deal with Sakon/Ukon abilties.


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## xigloox (Jan 25, 2013)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> The tasteful answer is that zabuza takes it with mid diff at best due to hidden mist + silent kill combo. *The sound four have no real durability feats* to say they can withstand being hacked at by the beheader blade(especially when zabuza gets to aiming for vitals).
> 
> Kidomaru blindly setting up his webs to protect his teammates against a man they cannot even see before zabuza slices all them down is not likely. Zabuza was able to penetrate a manji formation as easy as it is to breath.
> 
> A serious zabuza going for the kill is a big load i do not think they can carry.



Does it have to be my catch phrase: Do people even read the manga?

Kidomaru's golden sticky armor makes him completely invulnerable to Zabuza's decapitation. Sakon/Ukon in their CS forms have metal appendages.

Outside of that there are several defensive ninjutsu they can perform against Zabuza.

The problem Zabuza faces here is mainly Kidomaru's webbing which Zabuza will not even see and thus fall victim to thanks to mist.


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## Rocky (Jan 25, 2013)

~King of Heroes~ said:


> Zabuza stomps, Sound 4 were chunin level.
> 
> A guy who could hang with Kakashi physically and even defeat him isn't losing to guys who couldn't beat the Leaf Genin.
> 
> He sets up HMJ and proceeds to systematically one-shot each of them .



Yeah, the Leaf Genin were actually pretty good back then. Keeping up rusty Kakashi who had his Sharingan rendered ineffective and used no Ration techniques until the fight was over doesn't warrant immediate superiority over the sound 4. The only ones that won were Neji and Choji anyway, who were left in critical condition.


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## Hazuki (Jan 26, 2013)

the 4 sound were forced to use their cs2 and were tired after they defeated 2   very tired low examinated jonin 

zabuza a true jonin healthy would have rape the 4 sound 

we can't even compare their level , no matter what kind of jutsu dispose the 4 sound , they are still chuunin level


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## Stermor (Jan 26, 2013)

sorry but does anyone think the sound 4 will even be able to detect zabuza?? 

he casually kills them before they even know they died.. like he has the reputation for...


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## Athruz (Jan 26, 2013)

Kidomaru can withstand any attack Zabuza uses, as can his webs too. He also has large amounts of projectiles keeping Zabuza busy (unless you guys think his striking speed is faster than Nejis).
Zabuza concentrates on the sound of a heartbeat while in the mist, so Tayuya's genjutsu should be unavoidable.
Sakon/Ukon can summon Rashomon to block Suitons, Zabuza's other way of fighting (CQC) leaves him open for Ukon entering to which he has no counter.
Jirobo throws rocks and occupies him OR creates Doton walls to block off the water source.

Zabuza is outdone here.
He would beat Tayuya + Jirobo, but all 4 overwhelm him completely.

Sound 4 (finally) win 10/10


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## tanman (Jan 26, 2013)

Someone like Pre-Skip Neji and by extension Kidomaru, would be unable to sense his attack before it were too late.
However, the Sound 4 _does_ have quite a bit of haxx. Shishienjin, Mateki: Mugen Onsa, Kumo Senkyū: Suzaku, and Kisei Kikai are all potentially deadly jutsu in a 1 vs. Many fight.

Surely several of the Sound 4 will die, but I can't determine if the last one or two will be able to pull out their best jutsu fast enough to survive.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jan 26, 2013)

xigloox said:


> Does it have to be my catch phrase: Do people even read the manga?
> 
> Kidomaru's golden sticky armor makes him completely invulnerable to Zabuza's decapitation. Sakon/Ukon in their CS forms have metal appendages.
> 
> ...



What was the best thing kidomaru's armor stood up against? Neji strikes? That does not make me think he can withstand zabuza's blade strikes. 

Sakon "metal appendages" feats are underwhelming....all it did was block kunai(which made him bleed i believe). Zabuza can aim for more vulnerable spots anyway since he knows many vital points. Blocking is pretty useless since he will not know where zabuza is attacking from.

Defense...what do they got...a couple of walls that can be moved around(once he pick up there slightest movements)...some webs(though kidomaru would have to place them all around his team and that would only leave tayuya able to fight with genjutsu since sakon and jirobo would be hindered by the webs and kidomaru cannot see anyway). 

Seeing as zabuza was able to get into a manji formation easily they would get took out before they really know what happened. They have no time to set up all this elaborate stuff anyway.


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## Rob (Jan 26, 2013)

Zabuza, the guy who gave Kakashi a hard fight, who is leagues ahead of Part I Naruto and co, would utterly shit on them. 

Add Kimimmaro and we have a fight.


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## MidvalleySensei (Jan 26, 2013)

Zabuza would beat every chunin at once. He kicked and on two occasions non-vitally stabbed PTS KAKASHI :amazed

No. People continually downgrading the Sound 4 for their vague words around a vague fight with two characters of vague ability is head-spinningly bad logic. If we bring rank wank into the mix, Kidomaru once casually trapped ANBU agents in his web.

With the location, Sakon and Ukon can summon Rashomon Gate, which prevents Zabuza from hitting them, mist or not. Tayuya's Revolt of the Demon World, meanwhile, travels right through the gate and eats Zabuza's (very limited, if his first shown fight is to be believed) chakra.

One of many ways for them to win, or at least gain an upper hand. Remember when Sasuke _speedblitzed_ Zabuza's clones and kept up with an opponent who impressed Zabuza himself? He doesn't have some absolute priority. The four going all out are too much for him.


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## Shizune (Jan 26, 2013)

Full knowledge benefits Zabuza significantly more than the Sound 4 here. He's going to throw up the mist and snipe Tayuya before she can cast her genjutsu. From there, none of the other members will be able to detect him, and he'll clean up within minutes.


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## xigloox (Jan 26, 2013)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> What was the best thing kidomaru's armor stood up against? Neji strikes? That does not make me think he can withstand zabuza's blade strikes.
> 
> Sakon "metal appendages" feats are underwhelming....all it did was block kunai(which made him bleed i believe). Zabuza can aim for more vulnerable spots anyway since he knows many vital points. Blocking is pretty useless since he will not know where zabuza is attacking from.
> 
> ...



Seriously. Do you read the manga?

Kidomaru's webbing can not be cut by normal bladed weapons as per Sasuke's admission. Zabuza's Sword is a normal bladed weapon in that it has no additional offensive properties.

3 Sakon/Ukon's armored parts are just like Jugo's in that they can block metal weaponry which includes the beheader sword.

So right away 2 of the 4 members are largely immune to Zabuza's fighting style.

Now you have Doton walls, barriers, Summoning walls, and general teamwork to contend with.  Zabuza simply does not have enough to win the fight when the sound 4 hard counter him so well.


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## Stermor (Jan 26, 2013)

Athruz said:


> Kidomaru can withstand any attack Zabuza uses, as can his webs too. He also has large amounts of projectiles keeping Zabuza busy (unless you guys think his striking speed is faster than Nejis).
> Zabuza concentrates on the sound of a heartbeat while in the mist, so Tayuya's genjutsu should be unavoidable.
> Sakon/Ukon can summon Rashomon to block Suitons, Zabuza's other way of fighting (CQC) leaves him open for Ukon entering to which he has no counter.
> Jirobo throws rocks and occupies him OR creates Doton walls to block off the water source.
> ...



few things.. zabuza absolutly hits faster then neji.. he is comperable with kakashi..  

kidomaru is not defending or surviving getting hit by zabuza.. he was never completly encased in his metal like goo.. same goes for sakon/ukon.. since they won't know zabuza's is nearby, he pretty much gets a free shot anywhere he wants.. and any shot will kill them.. 

kidomaru is also incapable of finding zabuza(goes for the rest of the sound four aswell) remember kakashi couldn't find him.. what chance do the sound four have.... 

tayuya's genjutsu is useless without knowing if zabuza is near by.. which she can't possible know.. 

anyway sound four won't ever find zabuza.. while zabuza can casually kill anyone of the sound four without them even knowing he was close..


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## Bonly (Jan 26, 2013)

Stermor said:


> tayuya's genjutsu is useless without knowing if zabuza is near by.. which she can't possible know..




Why is Tayuya's genjutsu useless? Anyone who hears it gets caught so what does her not knowing where Zabuza have to do with him not getting caught?


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## Stermor (Jan 26, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Why is Tayuya's genjutsu useless? Anyone who hears it gets caught so what does her not knowing where Zabuza have to do with him not getting caught?



and she uses it when her teammates are close by?? hoping to catch zabuza?? while actually garenteeing that her teammates can't support her??

yep seems pretty useless to me..


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## Bonly (Jan 26, 2013)

Stermor said:


> and she uses it when her teammates are close by?? hoping to catch zabuza?? while actually garenteeing that her teammates can't support her??
> 
> yep seems pretty useless to me..



Yup seeing as how she can catch Zabuza and the mist would go away allowing them to see him as well as have her break the genjutsu via partner method.

To bad it isn't true.


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## kiwieagle (Jan 26, 2013)

Sound 4 own Zabuza.

How was Zabuza giving Kakashi a hard time lol?


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## Stermor (Jan 27, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Yup seeing as how she can catch Zabuza and the mist would go away allowing them to see him as well as have her break the genjutsu via partner method.
> 
> To bad it isn't true.



why would the mist go away? shika could still use his shadow.. so no the mist will not disappear... 

also shika still managed minimal movements.. wanna bet that zabuza can just bite his lips? to break it..

tayuya still useless the genjutsu is not likely to stop zabuza but it will seriously hurt sound 4 team..



kiwieagle said:


> Sound 4 own Zabuza.
> 
> How was Zabuza giving Kakashi a hard time lol?



you mean the time zabuza had kakashi in a waterprison?? zabuza was quite equal to kakashi at the time..


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## Vergil642 (Jan 27, 2013)

What's stopping Zabuza blinding everyone with Kirigakure no Jutsu, drowning those he can't cut with Suiro no Jutsu and cutting the heads off of the rest?

He can escape Tayuya's Genjutsu by breaking a finger, he's fast enough to dodge their attacks, he shuts down their ability to sense him and he's more than skilled enough to out-Taijutsu them. He can even use very powerful Suitons to bombard them from a distance and keep them off balance while he or a Mizu Bunshin sneaks around cutting off heads.


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## Olympian (Jan 27, 2013)

I give the same edge to Zabuza, I`d give to any of the notable Jonin _at the time_. Not because the Sound 4 didn`t had dangerous techniques but because it was noted that in terms of raw physical stats they were clearly and well behind. 

What is the point of Kidomaru`s webs being useful if he`s not fast enough to hit the opponent?



kiwieagle said:


> How was Zabuza giving Kakashi a hard time lol?


What, he wasn`t?


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## Bonly (Jan 27, 2013)

Stermor said:


> why would the mist go away? shika could still use his shadow.. so no the mist will not disappear...
> 
> also shika still managed minimal movements.. wanna bet that zabuza can just bite his lips? to break it..
> 
> tayuya still useless the genjutsu is not likely to stop zabuza but it will seriously hurt sound 4 team..



Can you show me a scan of Shika using his shadow while under the genjutsu? All I remember was Kishi making it seem he was under a genjutsu to get ger closer. Since the Uchiha were forced to end Susanoo i'd assume Zabuza mist would go away as well.

Rightttttt because thats the first thing everyone does in this manga the second they get put in a genjutsu,they bite their lip. Although I like how you can suggest Zabuza biting his lip but not the other members of the sound 4 doing the same 

Nope.


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## Dman (Jan 31, 2013)

You're seriously asking if Zabuza can take all 4 of them at once?

I thought this was going to be 4 separate battles...All 4 of them have potential to solo


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## Shinryu (Jan 31, 2013)

The area is to Zabuza's advantage since it allows him instant Suiton usage

If Zabuza starts with a zero visibility mist then only Kidomaru can track his position barely while the others are blind(I think Tayuya's Doki demons could posisbly track him since they have chakra leeching ghost inside them however).Zabuza water dragon/waterfall destruction should deal alot of damage to the S4 if it can hit them that is even so Tayuya just has to play her flute and do nothing since Zabuza would be binded by her genjutsu.Close combat with Jirobo is suicide since the dude can rip out a chunk of the earth IN BASE.Kidomaru can create web traps to bind Zabuza and i doubt her blade could cut his sticky gold armor plus he could snipe him from a distance.Kidomaru has insane ACCURACY with his sniping able to hit the blindspot of a Hyuuga with perfection every single shot.Sakon can block Zabuza's suitons with Rashoumon then simply touch him and begin his cellular hax.

Plz note adding Haku doesnt change shit hell Jirobo would smash his mirrors like nothing


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## wooly Eullerex (Feb 1, 2013)

*Lol at Rashoumon use~*

Zabuza wins with the mist.
Kidomaru & Jirobo are useless & essentially jutsu-less in this location.

Tauuya can literally, still ''use her flute'' but if she is surrounded in mist & suiton spam, i can only see it as an absurd technicality.

Sakon will be the only 1 to put up a fight but thats only speaking relative to his teammates who are way out of their environment on the bridge. Sakon taijutsu still is no match for Zabuzas ninjutsu.





Dman said:


> You're seriously asking if Zabuza can take all 4 of them at once?
> 
> I thought this was going to be 4 separate battles...*All 4 of them have potential to solo*



 Homecort advantage...


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## Shinryu (Feb 1, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> Zabuza wins with the mist.
> Kidomaru & Jirobo are useless & essentially jutsu-less in this location.
> 
> Tauuya can literally, still ''use her flute'' but if she is surrounded in mist & suiton spam, i can only see it as an absurd technicality.
> ...



wtf 

Do you read the manga

All Tayuya has to do is play her flute and Zabuza gets bind
Kidomaru's can use his web fields as a way to sense Zabuza
Jirobo would break that sword with a casual puncj
Rashoumon easily tanks his suitons
Sakon would rape in taijutsu since he can attack from any direction


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## wooly Eullerex (Feb 1, 2013)

ChaosX7 said:


> wtf
> Do you read the manga


No



> All Tayuya has to do is play her flute and Zabuza gets bind


ok...


> Kidomaru's can use his web fields as a way to sense Zabuza enemies


yes, except he cannot do it ITT...


> Jirobo would break that sword with a casual puncj


No, zabuza would cockslash his wrists mid-punch (dafuq?  )


> Rashoumon easily tanks his suitons


 sure, but not ITT location...



> Sakon would rape in taijutsu since he can attack from any direction a body length


 but he cant rape in bushinjutsu, kenjutsu, ansatsuken & elemental ninjutsu, zabuza can.


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## Shinryu (Feb 1, 2013)

you dont read the manga then stfu because your spouting bullshit


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## wooly Eullerex (Feb 1, 2013)

ChaosX7 said:


> you dont read the manga then stfu because your spouting bullshit



U dont understand what youve read so stop oozing ignorance


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## FireEel (Feb 1, 2013)

Does everyone here forget how Kidoumaru *casually* caught Naruto, Kiba, Akamaru, Shikamaru and Neji with his webs?

If he had been more serious, he woulda killed them easily(or failing which, accidentally unleash a very angry kyuubi-Naruto). Only reason why they escaped was because Neji just so happened to be the perfect counter to Kidomaru's webs.

In part 1, there were only two opponents whom Akamaru took a sniff at and was frightened to hell. The first was Gaara, the second was Kidoumaru(without CS), go figure.

And remember, the Sound 4 were not called Orochimaru's elite guards without reason. Besides their specialization in seals, they proved they were up there with their abilities.

I say the Sound 4 takes it with a hard fight.


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## Stermor (Feb 1, 2013)

lol akamaru was scared... sasuke was trying to commit suicide from just feeling zabuza's killing intent.. lol 

anyway do any of them have any feats showing them capable of finding zabuza?? or be able to keep up with zabuza's speed.. 

zabuza casually destroys the sound four.. they cannot keep up, they cannot find him, they cannot survive his attacks.. and the have no defense zabuza cannot circomvent...


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## Shinryu (Feb 1, 2013)

Stermor said:


> lol akamaru was scared... sasuke was trying to commit suicide from just feeling zabuza's killing intent.. lol
> 
> anyway do any of them have any feats showing them capable of finding zabuza?? or be able to keep up with zabuza's speed..
> 
> zabuza casually destroys the sound four.. they cannot keep up, they cannot find him, they cannot survive his attacks.. and the have no defense zabuza cannot circomvent...



I need proof he can cut sticky gold since his blade seems to be a normal razor cleaver


S4 in CS1 only beat the shit out of two leaf jonin

CS2 Jirobo lifts a giant Choji with one hand effortlessly


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## Stermor (Feb 2, 2013)

ChaosX7 said:


> I need proof he can cut sticky gold since his blade seems to be a normal razor cleaver
> 
> 
> S4 in CS1 only beat the shit out of two leaf jonin
> ...



i need proof kidomaru always has his entire body covered in gold stuff before i believe zabuza can't cut it off.. or that a water dragons concussive force won't hurt him.. or a kunai in the eyes.. 

uhm s4 needed cs2 to survive 2 tired jounins.. and needed rest afterwards.. zabuza could have probebly killed them easily though.. 

what use would jirobo's strentgh be?? he will be cleaved in half before he can react..


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## Shinryu (Feb 3, 2013)

Stermor said:


> i need proof kidomaru always has his entire body covered in gold stuff before i believe zabuza can't cut it off.. or that a water dragons concussive force won't hurt him.. or a kunai in the eyes..
> 
> uhm s4 needed cs2 to survive 2 tired jounins.. and needed rest afterwards.. zabuza could have probebly killed them easily though..
> 
> what use would jirobo's strentgh be?? he will be cleaved in half before he can react..



no CS2 Sakon is hard to kill since he can fuse to you body


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## Stermor (Feb 3, 2013)

ChaosX7 said:


> no CS2 Sakon is hard to kill since he can fuse to you body



not when cut in half before he notices zabuza is close... 
cs2 sakon is only hard to kill if you can't cut him in half before he can touch you.. 

cs2 is also not really hard to get out of your body if you do the same as kiba.. and well remember the wounds zabuza had.. he is perfectly capable of cutting himself to get sakon out..


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## Tobirama Uchiha (May 10, 2016)

Close win for Sound 4, 4vs1 is too much


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## Icegaze (May 10, 2016)

Seriously folks
zabuza puts hidden mist up and shits on them

where is the proof tayuya genjutsu wont affect all those who hear it? sound 4 cant coordinate attacks when they cant even see each other.

3 clones and zabuza attack at the same time and low diff.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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