# Teen kills girlfriend after dare.



## Louis-954 (Sep 2, 2011)

> A mother has called for the return of the death penalty for the teenage boy who killed her daughter after an offer of a free breakfast from a friend.
> Joshua Davies lured 15-year-old Rebecca Aylward into woodland near Bridgend in South Wales and tried to strangle her.
> When that failed, he smashed her skull with a rock the size of a rugby ball.
> Davies, 16, left Rebecca face down in the pouring rain in the new clothes she had bought for their meeting.
> ...



What a sick bastard.... throw away the key.


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## Itαchi (Sep 2, 2011)

its scum. he should be locked up forever, killing scum, makes you scum too,though.


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## Cax (Sep 2, 2011)

Fuck that little pussy. Killing him isn't the way to go, though. You can't suffer when you're dead. Someone needs to bash that cunt and make a weekly routine of it.


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## Griever (Sep 2, 2011)

Itαchi said:


> its scum. he should be locked up forever, *killing scum, makes you scum too,though.*



No it doesn't, killing someone who has wronged you in this way does not make one scum, hell even if the girls mother took a gun to the guys trial and shot him dead in the court, i wouldn't hold it against her at all. It's what i'd do if i where in her shoes and my kids killer was only getting a 14 year sentence fuck that, i wouldn't be able to rest till the fuckers dead.

Killing ones girlfriend for a free breakfast it the kinda thing that makes someone scum not executing that person, that just makes someone a garbage man taking out the trash.


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## Brotha Yasuji (Sep 2, 2011)

He just needs to be reformed is all.


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## Santo (Sep 2, 2011)

Kill him. Why waste tax dollars on his detainment?


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## Cocoa (Sep 2, 2011)

Absolutely disgusting.


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## Dorzium (Sep 2, 2011)

So if someone dared him to kill his parents or strangle a baby for a free breakfast he would do it? What a stupid piece of shit. 

A death penalty is too soft on him. Send him to prison for the rest of his life. When he gets older and gets sent to prison for adults, he can enjoy a lifetime of anal rape.


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## hustler's ambition (Sep 2, 2011)

Gas chamber please?


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## Seph (Sep 2, 2011)

You people sicken me as much as this murderer does.


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## Gnome (Sep 3, 2011)

Santo said:


> Kill him. Why waste tax dollars on his detainment?



Death Penalty costs more, at least in America. Not sure how it would work if it existed in Wales.


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## Deleted member 198194 (Sep 3, 2011)

Sentencing a 16 year old most likely a victim of mental illness and/or bad parenting to death isn't the best way to go.

Let him spend the rest of his life getting raped in jail.


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## Santo (Sep 3, 2011)

Gnome said:


> Death Penalty costs more, at least in America. Not sure how it would work if it existed in Wales.



Pragmatically, yeah. But it's only because the retarded number of appeals the person gets.

I'm all for being granted appeals and whatnot but I mean... not to THAT extent. It shouldn't cost more to kill a murderer than to keep him imprisoned for life. That's just nuts.


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## Terra Branford (Sep 3, 2011)

Kill him. The sick bastard deserves whatever hell he gets too.

The poor girl.  Dressed up for him any everything.


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## Dorzium (Sep 3, 2011)

If he goes to prison there's a good chance he'll be shanked or beaten to death. Send him there.


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## Seph (Sep 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Kill him. The sick bastard deserves whatever hell he gets too.
> 
> The poor girl.  Dressed up for him any everything.



Yeah, why don't we determine arbitrary amounts of punishment like murder? I'm sure it's going to be very useful!

People like you make me think less of humans. It makes me cringe to see bloodthirsty people.


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## Level7N00b (Sep 3, 2011)

I was gonna make an inappropriate joke...but damn. 

But seriously, something's wrong with this little fuck. He talked about it like it was no big deal. And this girl apparently loved him. 

I agree with the mother.


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## Seph (Sep 3, 2011)

> He'll probably be far away from anyone who can harm him, have his own guards, and live a pretty posh life there because he's "just a poor, confused kid".



Ever heard of solitary confinement?


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## Griever (Sep 3, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> You people sicken me as much as this murderer does.



Good to know, yet somehow i just can't bring myself to care.

I wonder if your tone would change if a loved one of yours got killed by someone he/she loved and trusted for a free breakfast, i bet it'd change quickly.


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## Connor (Sep 3, 2011)

Oh dear.  Well it's guys like this who give sociopaths a bad name.

I am not a big supporter of capital punishment, especially in cases like this.  He's just a kid and he probably has a lot of issues.  Yes, he's a killer.  Yes it's a sob story, but it is biased in a way that I'm sure facts have been left out to make the boy a more obvious target.  Not that it was hard.

A minimum of fourteen years sounds about right.  The way I see it, he'll get out and he still won't feel guilty about killing her.  I doubt he can feel guilt.  But he will understand that killing is not something you can get away with (especially just by posting on facebook that you're watching TV as an alibi).  

The thing is, as a sociopath, killing the girl only seemed logical to him.  "Dead girl I don't like >= free breakfast".  And though he may of been described as intelligent, that's just a thing sociopaths are good at appearing.  He's an idiot.  Give the monster more of a chance at life.  I doubt he will kill anyone else again, but if he does, well then I'll have so much egg on my face you could slap me with a frying pan and call me an omlette.


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## Terra Branford (Sep 3, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> Yeah, why don't we determine arbitrary amounts of punishment like murder? I'm sure it's going to be very useful!
> 
> People like you make me think less of humans. It makes me cringe to see bloodthirsty people.


This is something I'll have to respectfully disagree with you for, Sephiran.

Someone who can take a life, an innocent life, are nothing but monsters. Murder and only 14 years? He'd be back on the streets and killing more people.

Anyone who could do this;


> Davies, who collected antique knives, swords and guns from the age of nine and was fixated on horror films, had often discussed ways to kill Rebecca with friends.
> In one text he wrote: "What would you do if I actually did kill her?". His friend replied: "Oh, I would buy you a breakfast," little thinking he would take the offer seriously.
> Davies posted messages on Facebook saying he was watching TV to give himself an alibi. After Rebecca was reported missing, the killer told her worried mother he had not seen her.



Doesn't deserve what they wouldn't give to another. 

People who are really bloodthirsty would call for his torture/rape/etc in prison and then a brutal death. :/


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## On and On (Sep 3, 2011)

Straight to the gallows with that one.


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## Kaitlyn (Sep 3, 2011)

Yeah, you don't make death threats that casually at that age, you're just asking for trouble. Even if he got out, no one girl in their right mind would date this douche. 

Lock him up for life or execute him, preferably the latter.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Sep 3, 2011)

The people of Earth don't execute Psychopath's we reform them into a more refined killing machine and The Cycle Contines..


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## 115 (Sep 3, 2011)

This happened surprisingly close to where I live, and yet I didn't hear anything about it.  

Either way, he's a dumbass.


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## Kittan (Sep 3, 2011)

So...did he get his breakfast?


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## dream (Sep 3, 2011)

The boy should stay in locked up forever, for taking that young girl's life he should be forced to watch the world progress while being unable to interact with it.  A boy like him will probably feel no remorse, he certainly didn't after he killed her and brought over a friend to see that he did the deed.


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## BrokenBonds (Sep 3, 2011)

What a freak.


Sephiran said:


> Yeah, why don't we determine arbitrary amounts of punishment like murder? I'm sure it's going to be very useful!
> 
> People like you make me think less of humans. It makes me cringe to see bloodthirsty people.


Are you new too the internet or something?


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## Level7N00b (Sep 3, 2011)

BrokenBonds said:


> What a freak.
> 
> Are you new too the internet or something?



This has been discussed with him several times, his opinion will remain unchanged.


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 3, 2011)

This guy is sick, he's cold and calculating with no remorse and killed someone who loved him then showed the body to a friend. But it looks like his love for horror movies and obsession with weaponary at age 9 imply he was a sick fuck even 6 years ago or was atleast starting to show signs.


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## Revolution (Sep 3, 2011)

If he is a sociopath, he cannot ever be reformed, no matter how hard you try.  He should be behind bars forever OR have his life ended because he could have done this to anyone.  Including YOU and your loved ones.


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## Time Expired (Sep 3, 2011)

What a waste.


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## Wolfarus (Sep 3, 2011)

So the kid showed signs of being a psycopath / serial killer, and this girl was too love-struck by him to see the danger in being around him, much less accepting an offer to meet him in the woods at night..

oy.

Its too bad she suffered the consequences that she did, but to be honest she should have been ALLOT more level-headed about it. 

Hope the kid ends up failing his parole review and stays behind bars, though.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 3, 2011)

He is a minor.....Wales is part of Great Britain and the latter is part of the European Union and they consider it cruel to sentence a minor a life sentence.


As much as the story makes me angry and want to strangle the boy, he is still young and one must not predict that he will automatically still be a murderer when he becomes an adult (at least, not without further mental studying of him as time goes by)......


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## Wolfarus (Sep 3, 2011)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> He is a minor.....Wales is part of Great Britain and the latter is part of the European Union and they consider it cruel to sentence a minor a life sentence.
> 
> 
> As cruel as this is, he is still young and one must not predict that he will automatically still be a murderer in the future (at least, not without further mental studying of him as time goes by)......



He's old enough to know right from wrong, and know the consequences of his actions. This "he's just a kid.." bullshit excuse for anybody under the age of 17 needs to stop. People need to realize that teenagers are -NOT- innocent-minded lambs, especially the ones that make up this current generation.

Keep the pysco in prison for the rest of his life, or fry his ass. If england is too pussy to deal with their trash, maybe they can start contracting out to texas. They'll be happy to do the job


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 3, 2011)

Well, teenagers mindsets are not yet fully mature compared to an adult and are prone to emotional outbursts more so than adults....even the US Supreme Court outlawed the death penalty to minors in 2005 by using these facts.


I guess the US is a "pussy" as well, huh?


And just so you know, I am not saying this as a European (I do not live there nor I am from there, except that my maternal grandparents came from there) ......


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## Wolfarus (Sep 3, 2011)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> Well, teenagers mindsets are not yet fully mature compared to an adult and are prone to emotional outbursts more so than adults....even the US Supreme Court outlawed the death penalty to minors in 2005 by using these facts.



In -SOME- cases i would agree with you. However, this piece of filth obviously is unbalanced, and trying to "fix" him is an insult to this girl's memory, and her family / friends. He knew what he was doing, he planned it out in advance, over a fucking DARE.

He is not worth the cost of keeping alive in prison. Not this one.


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## Griever (Sep 3, 2011)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> Well, teenagers mindsets are not yet fully mature compared to an adult and are prone to emotional outbursts more so than adults....even the US Supreme Court outlawed the death penalty to minors in 2005 by using these facts.
> 
> 
> I guess the US is a pussy, as well, huh?
> ...



What you say is somewhat true, teenagers are prone to emotional outbursts, however, if someone teenager or otherwise would kill someone (especially someone they know like in this case) for a free meal, there is no excuse for them. I mean hell i was a teenager with severe anger issues and even i knew when to stop, and i didn't have good control over my anger at all. 

As to the US banning the death penalty for minors, i agree and disagree with it, it should only be used on minors is the worst cases, i don't think it shouldn't be used at all though. Minors may lack understanding in certain areas, but that only excuses so much.


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## Raikage (Sep 3, 2011)

He deserves the worst imo.

He PLANNED it out.

Doesn't get any more wrong in the head than that.


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## AzuriKatsumi (Sep 3, 2011)

Ok, yeah, the kid is sick, and what he did is TERRIBLE. I hate to see that a girl so young and promising died but . . it really just goes to show that one should always take a direct death threat seriously. No matter the age of the person making them. His friends should have said something, She should have said something to her parents about it, and she shouldn't have gone to meet him in a secluded area. They had broken up and yeah she was likely hopeful they'd get back together but still . .

As per the boy himself, I'd suggest him seeing a therapist. Yeah it's almost insulting to the girls memory but . . even if he did plan everything out in advance and "knew what he was doing" he might not have realized the seriousness of it. 

There are people out there, who see nothing wrong with killing someone they don't really like. They don't see death as a big deal. You know like "Death is no big deal so what's wrong with killing someone?" He also didn't seem to care about anyone really . . I mean even after he killed her, he showed his friend the body, then tried to blame his friend. Though I kinda blame the friend too some, and get the feeling he feels horrible [because his 'joke' caused a death] he shouldn't have made such a joke. As I said earlier, a death threat should never be taken lightly. . . especially if the threat is made repeatedly.....

It's terrible that the girl is dead, and it's terrible that it doesn't seem like true justice was served but . .  as little as we see things like this . . they happen more often than one would think. Honestly as far as I'm concerned . . True Justice is rarely served when someone dies.

(You all can tear my post apart if you want... I've said what I will.)


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## Lucaniel (Sep 3, 2011)

he...killed someone for a free breakfast?

inb4 WHAT WOULD YOU KILL SOMEONE FOR HUH? murder is a heinous crime, i know, but this is just completely weird


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## Kirito (Sep 3, 2011)

Send the fucker to a gay bar.


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## Herekic (Sep 3, 2011)

That article title misrepresents the story.


if you read it, it says plainly that he basically hated her, and was very bitter.

the whole "dare" BS only came up after he himselrf stated he was thinking about killing her already.


he killed her for personal reasons, not on some dare.

that doesn't make him any less of a psychopath, but just wanted to point that out


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## Jesus (Sep 3, 2011)

Fucked-up story... but this is the Caf?.



AzuriKatsumi said:


> There are people out there, who see nothing wrong with killing someone they don't really like.



Just look at this thread.


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## zuul (Sep 3, 2011)

the thing that was the most striking to me is how deluded this woman is. 'perfect little girl', 'successful young woman', woaa


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## Cygnus45 (Sep 3, 2011)

> A death penalty is too soft on him. Send him to prison for the rest of his life. When he gets older and gets sent to prison for adults, he can enjoy a lifetime of anal rape.





> Sentencing a 16 year old most likely a victim of mental illness and/or bad parenting to death isn't the best way to go.
> 
> Let him spend the rest of his life getting raped in jail.



Sorry, but that's not gonna happen:

He was described as "popular and intelligent" and no-one, including Rebecca, had taken his threats to kill her seriously.
Davies, who was found guilty at the end of July, was called "devious, calculating and controlling" by Mr Justice Lloyd Jones.

This kid isn't gonna drop the soap, he's too smart. Given the details of his personality and sick mind, he'd probably end up the leader of some gang or cult, protected with henchmen. His girlfriend worshiped and continue to follow him even though she was reeiving abuse long before the killing. He knows how to brainwash people.

And no, I don't think it was "bad parenting", the fucker just took a turn for the worse after watching one too many slasher films and fantasizing about going Jason on people. He was also surrounded by a bad crowd seeing as he was goaded on by his friends who took the matter lightly. And it can't be blamed on mental illness, as I've already said, he's too damn smart.


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## LadyTenTen (Sep 3, 2011)

I disagree with Death Penalty.

He's a monster who just cannot stay in society again, so 14 years sounds silly to me. He will get out and kill again (and won't need a free breakfast promise to do so).

The judge is wrong, he needs to stay in jail forever.


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## Archangel Michael (Sep 3, 2011)

I agree with the  Death Penalty.I know hes a minor and most of them dont know what they are doing but  this guy  is consider intelligent . He know what he was doing.He hated his girlfriend and kill her for dare.
I dont understand how she still like him if he was giving her death threats,it should have been taken seriously. 

I wonder why doesn't the USA use a gun for the death penalty then shot them in the head 3 time.


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## Plush (Sep 3, 2011)

I'm appalled...what is this?


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## Miss Fortune (Sep 3, 2011)

Honestly what the hell.


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## dixie (Sep 3, 2011)

Reminds me of that case where the guy killed his ex-girlfriend because someone said they would buy him breakfast...


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## YujiroHanma (Sep 3, 2011)

I don't understand how executing someone is more expensive than making sure he lives.


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## Griever (Sep 3, 2011)

YujiroHanma said:


> I don't understand how executing someone is more expensive than making sure he lives.



Because once you carry out the death penalty there is no going back, thus it has to be proven without a shadow of a doubt that the person being executed is guilty. the money mainly goes to the investagation (which calls for a number of specialists) also with capital cases the defendent is entittled to two attorneys and a number of appeals. in the end this racks up quite the bill as one might guess.

well, thats the gist anyway.


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## Prince Vegeta (Sep 3, 2011)

The fucking cunt he killed her and then tried to blame his friend for it

he needds a black c0ck in his mouth


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## BroKage (Sep 3, 2011)

Don't support the death penalty (might kill the falsely convicted before they're proven innocent), but murderers deserve life.

Smh @ 15 year murder sentences in hotel prisons.


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## reaperunique (Sep 3, 2011)

well that's...retarded...fuck him to death I'd say


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## Raiden (Sep 3, 2011)

The hell is wrong with that guy?


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## ensoriki (Sep 3, 2011)

Judging by the later parts of the article, they all should have seen it coming.
He said constant shit that should have started tipping people off to at least question why he repeats the same shit over and over again.

Anyways, plenty of women hook up with wrong dudes, can't throw a tear for every bad choice, should've hooked up with one of the youth here.


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## Rima (Sep 3, 2011)

This story makes me sick to my stomach. The little monster deserves life in prison.


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## Fran (Sep 3, 2011)

The things we do for breakfast.


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## Toroxus (Sep 3, 2011)

Misleading title is misleading. He didn't do it because of a dare or a promise of breakfast.


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## Louis-954 (Sep 3, 2011)

> Misleading title is misleading. He didn't do it because of a dare or a promise of breakfast.


Thats what prompted him over the edge. He even took that friend(the one that dared him and promised him breakfast) to the scene of the crime. Sure thats not all there is to it but that's what sparked the action he took.


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## Aurinya (Sep 3, 2011)

The lack of capital punishment sounds like Japan's Juvenile protection law system...

As much as I am absolutely, downright pissed with this idiot, death really won't do anything. It won't make him learn anything, and even if he did in his last seconds, it wouldn't be put to good use. An eye for an eye is just revenge and does nothing to alleviate the situation. It sure does make us feel a lot better though.

I just don't get how people can be so sick in the mind. Why can't everyone be harmonious and at peace and treat one another properly? If they can't afford to love, well, at least be civilized and reasonable and leave others alone! Such people definitely have a hand in screwing up our political systems and the way society functions. Humanity can_not_ move on if a bunch of scumbags think breakfast is more important than life.


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## Connor (Sep 3, 2011)

Aurinya said:


> The lack of capital punishment sounds like Japan's Juvenile protection law system...
> 
> As much as I am absolutely, downright pissed with this idiot, death really won't do anything. It won't make him learn anything, and even if he did in his last seconds, it wouldn't be put to good use. An eye for an eye is just revenge and does nothing to alleviate the situation. It sure does make us feel a lot better though.
> 
> I just don't get how people can be so sick in the mind. Why can't everyone be harmonious and at peace and treat one another properly? If they can't afford to love, well, at least be civilized and reasonable and leave others alone! Such people definitely have a hand in screwing up our political systems and the way society functions. Humanity can_not_ move on if a bunch of scumbags think breakfast is more important than life.



Tragically, capitalism supports sociopaths, and seeing as capitalists are running the world now, this idiot is the next stage in human evolution.  Also, you have no clue how good a chef the guy who promised him breakfast was.  Maybe he made really delicious omelettes.


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## Aurinya (Sep 3, 2011)

Connor said:


> Tragically, capitalism supports sociopaths, and seeing as capitalists are running the world now, this idiot is the next stage in human evolution.  Also, you have no clue how good a chef the guy who promised him breakfast was.  Maybe he made really delicious omelettes.



Why yes, imagine that, our bright new generation where the new currency is Life and, well, people can be as capitalist as they wish. We can just sit back and cackle like senile grandparents at such a fascinating prospect.

The omelettes...remind me of how a China restaurant fried dumplings or something with oil dug up from dead bodies. The world really is screwed.


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## reddogs52 (Sep 3, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> Yeah, why don't we determine arbitrary amounts of punishment like murder? I'm sure it's going to be very useful!
> 
> People like you make me think less of humans. It makes me cringe to see bloodthirsty people.



Don't pretend to be some self righteous saint. If that kid had killed your mom/family, what the fuck would you be saying then?


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## Blackrose16 (Sep 3, 2011)

I remember reading this in the London Evening Standard about a month ago...So basically what the newspaper said was that the couple was in an on and off relationship.

Apparently he apologized to her and wanted to talk things out so there wouldn't be any bad feelings between them...while she believe that..He had other plans

A couple days before he was talking to his friends that promised free breakfast and the nutter told him he is holding him to that promise...The boy was unstable and I think this is what set him over the edge

Couple days later he takes the girl on the 'date'  and kills her. It never mentioned that he took the boy back to the body..he did however send a text to his friend when he was done asking him he is going to get his breakfast. ill try and find the link to this..


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## Superstars (Sep 3, 2011)

Itαchi said:


> its scum. he should be locked up forever, killing scum, makes you scum too,though.



No, no it doesn't. Especially if law requires it.

The Devil is busy yall, humanity needs to stop thinking it knows what it's doing because we don't.


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## Kei (Sep 3, 2011)

Oh god I couldn't even imagine this happening to me or anyone I know


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## Mintaka (Sep 3, 2011)

Griever said:


> Good to know, yet somehow i just can't bring myself to care.
> 
> I wonder if your tone would change if a loved one of yours got killed by someone he/she loved and trusted for a free breakfast, i bet it'd change quickly.


Appeal to emotion fallacy says hi.

Going vigilantee on his ass doesn't make you any better than he is.  We have governments and punishments in place for this kind of thing for a reason.


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## Nechku Chan (Sep 3, 2011)

He must have been one Starving Ass Mofo. He's Still sick though.


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## Dejablue (Sep 3, 2011)

Just 14 years and he'll be out of jail? Wow seriously??


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## Robert Haydn (Sep 3, 2011)

tl;dr but the kid sounds like a sicko.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 3, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> You people sicken me as much as this murderer does.


Let the punishment fit the crime, Sephiran. Of course, since you can't comprehend a murderer who does this at a drop of a half, you might ask for him to be sent to a mental hospital to clear up what's wrong with him.


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## Borel (Sep 3, 2011)

I don't agree with the death penalty. Sure, if it was my family member he killed I'd probably want it for him. So?


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## Seph (Sep 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Someone who can take a life, an innocent life, are nothing but monsters. Murder and only 14 years? He'd be back on the streets and killing more people.



Then keep him for life. Killing someone unnecessarily (when they're sentenced for life..) is completely superfluous and frankly barbaric. It is a waste of resources and time. 

That kid doesn't need imprisonment, he needs mental help. He doesn't deserve to die because he's fucked in the head. I see these people in the same way I see a dog - can you blame a dog for attacking and killing someone? It's simply a mental problem that needs to be rehabilitated, and if not possible to rehabilitate, the person should be kept away from others.

What good is killing him going to do? Satisfy your lust for blood? Pathetic.



> People who are really bloodthirsty would call for his torture/rape/etc in prison and then a brutal death. :/



Doesn't change the fact that you're bloodthirsty.



> Let the punishment fit the crime, Sephiran.



By determining arbitrary amounts of punishment, you make yet another fallacy. Why shouldn't we torture/rape the murderer? Give me a good reason why.  We want to punish them right?



> Don't pretend to be some self righteous saint. If that kid had killed your mom/family, what the fuck would you be saying then?



Death wouldn't satisfy me. There are things far, far worse than death. I'd want them to contemplate what they've done in life imprisonment.


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## Dejablue (Sep 3, 2011)

A waste of resources and time is holding him in a cell in a jail that is maintained by tax payer money. How is it more expensive to just kill him and be done with it?


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## Seph (Sep 3, 2011)

Dejablue said:


> A waste of resources and time is holding him in a cell in a jail that is maintained by tax payer money. How is it more expensive to just kill him and be done with it?



Legal fees, like paying for a defense attorney / prosecutor and so on.


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## Dejablue (Sep 3, 2011)

That's a flash in the pan though. how does that measure up to keeping the person fed and maintained for a life time?


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## applesauce (Sep 3, 2011)

Some people are just fucked up. Be careful who you keep in your company folks, because you never really know.


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## Terra Branford (Sep 3, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> Then keep him for life. Killing someone unnecessarily (when they're sentenced for life..) is completely superfluous and frankly barbaric. It is a waste of resources and time.
> 
> That kid doesn't need imprisonment, he needs mental help. He doesn't deserve to die because he's fucked in the head. I see these people in the same way I see a dog - can you blame a dog for attacking and killing someone? It's simply a mental problem that needs to be rehabilitated, and if not possible to rehabilitate, the person should be kept away from others.
> 
> What good is killing him going to do? Satisfy your lust for blood? Pathetic.



Would you call for this for a mass murderer? Rehabilitation? Do you honesty think that would work for someone could just murder over a dumbass dare? Murdered an innocent, gets 14 years and then freedom? Way to spit in the dead girl's face and in the mother's face. And way to put a murderer back on the streets to claim another life. So what? More rehabilitation that doesn't work?

Yea, there are people who murder for mental problems, but this kid is just a murderer. He murdered her because he hated her, not because he was sick in the head. He doesn't have anything wrong with his mind, unless they check him out of course and proves he does.

If someone murdered your daughter, what would you say or do? Don't answer with a "I don't know, I don't have a daughter yet" because that's avoiding the question. Would you stand there and go "well, he just needs rehabilitation! Then, when he's free we can _see/hope_ if it works and keeps him from murdering another person".

The Law and the penalties for breaking them exist for a reason. You may not see that as right, but they exist to make sure others are safe. I'll keep my view and opinion, and you keep yours.  




Sephiran said:


> Doesn't change the fact that you're bloodthirsty.



I suppose, if that's what you think.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 3, 2011)

Dejablue said:


> That's a flash in the pan though. how does that measure up to keeping the person fed and maintained for a life time?



Because basically the guy is given an army to defent himself from the penalty. You can just kill someone where it is "beyond any reasonable doubt" in short where basically the murder was so fucking evident that not even with an army the guy was able to pull a win.

I am against death penalty absolutely, why? Because you eventually kill innocent people and this is something that cant be afforded, I rather to leave free guilty people than kill innocent people.


----------



## Kool-Aid (Sep 3, 2011)

he's fucked up, and looks weird as shit. 

fuck him


----------



## Seph (Sep 3, 2011)

> Would you call for this for a mass murderer? Rehabilitation? Do you honesty think that would work for someone could just murder over a dumbass dare? Murdered an innocent, gets 14 years and then freedom? Way to spit in the dead girl's face and in the mother's face. And way to put a murderer back on the streets to claim another life. So what? More rehabilitation that doesn't work?



Depending on the opinion of several psychiatrists, yes, I would call for the rehabilitation of a mass murderer.

Asking for the death penalty just because "omg its rude to the mother" is pathetic. By that logic, we should be punishing people based on what people want - which would be horrific. We have no time to waste with such trivial and petty arguments. We can't give people whatever they want.

I stated in my post that the murderer should stay behind bars if he is determined to still possibly be a harm on society.



> Yea, there are people who murder for mental problems, but this kid is just a murderer. He murdered her because he hated her, not because he was sick in the head. He doesn't have anything wrong with his mind, unless they check him out of course and proves he does.



Part of the article is dedicated to showing that he is, indeed, fucked in the head.

*
Davies, who collected antique knives, swords and guns from the age of nine and was fixated on horror films, had often discussed ways to kill Rebecca with friends.*

This guy clearly has mental problems.

*
He was described as "popular and intelligent" and no-one, including Rebecca, had taken his threats to kill her seriously.
Davies, who was found guilty at the end of July, was called "devious, calculating and controlling" by Mr Justice Lloyd Jones.*

Sounds like a textbook psychopath.



> If someone murdered your daughter, what would you say or do? Don't answer with a "I don't know, I don't have a daughter yet" because that's avoiding the question. Would you stand there and go "well, he just needs rehabilitation! Then, when he's free we can see/hope if it works and keeps him from murdering another person".



I'd want them dead, but by my own hands (not by the death penalty). I personally would get no satisfaction whatsoever from the death penalty.

If the person was mentally disturbed, then no, I would not blame them, even if my daughter was killed. Would I blame a dog if it killed my daughter? No.



> The Law and the penalties for breaking them exist for a reason. You may not see that as right, *but they exist to make sure others are safe*. I'll keep my view and opinion, and you keep yours.



Self contradiction. The death penalty does not make sure others are safe. Life imprisonment already does that, the death penalty is just a superfluous punishment.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Sep 3, 2011)

Someone who would kill someone so casually over something as trivial as a meal is obviously total scum and completely deserving of a terrible, terrible fate.



> We will never forgive him for tearing our world apart so brutally and I would welcome the return of capital punishment for the likes of Joshua Davies, *who forfeited his human rights when he chose to take my daughter's life.*



This is basically my opinion as well.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 3, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> Depending on the opinion of several psychiatrists, yes, I would call for the rehabilitation of a mass murderer.
> 
> Asking for the death penalty just because "omg its rude to the mother" is pathetic. By that logic, we should be punishing people based on what people want - which would be horrific. We have no time to waste with such trivial and petty arguments. We can't give people whatever they want.
> 
> I stated in my post that the murderer should stay behind bars if he is determined to still possibly be a harm on society.


So do you assume every murderer "just needs rehabilitation"? You made a thread asking if Muhammad was evil. Would you say he too, needed rehabilitation, if he was alive today (imagine he did all those things today)?

I'm not saying it should be done because its "rude" to her mother. If you had read that in my post, I would advise you reading it once more. I said it is a spit in the name of justice for the girls (daughter and mother).

No, I'm sure if what she really wants for him is worse than the already prescribed punishment for murdering people. She wants him to pay by the fullness of the justice system.

I read your post fine, thank you. How do you know that rehabilitation works on murderers, especially this kind of murderer?



Sephiran said:


> Part of the article is dedicated to showing that he is, indeed, fucked in the head.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



So? He liked horror movies. Lots of people are insanely in love with them, lots of people collect horror movies and make horror movies for their job. Liking a movie only suggests, not proves. And once more, he hated this girl to the point he wanted to murder her. Its not that he was sick in the head, it was that he hated her and wanted her dead.

Lots of controlling and calculating people aren't murderers. Most likely jackasses, but not murderers. Same goes for the devious.



Sephiran said:


> I'd want them dead, but by my own hands (not by the death penalty). I personally would get no satisfaction whatsoever from the death penalty.
> 
> If the person was mentally disturbed, then no, I would not blame them, even if my daughter was killed. Would I blame a dog if it killed my daughter? No.
> 
> Self contradiction. The death penalty does not make sure others are safe. Life imprisonment already does that, the death penalty is just a superfluous punishment.


Why? Murder is murder. You're just as barbaric as you claimed me to be if you want his life to end either way. 

Its not a contradiction and these punishments exist to protect, even if you think its barbaric or that it isn't designed of it. 

Oh yes life imprisonment,  but 14 years isn't a life time, is it?

EDIT:
Grammar.


----------



## Aiku (Sep 4, 2011)

TERRIBLE. JUST TERRIBLE.


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## Mider T (Sep 4, 2011)

I wonder what kind of breakfast he thought it was going to be?  And if he got it?


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## Redshadow49 (Sep 4, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> Then keep him for life. Killing someone unnecessarily (when they're sentenced for life..) is completely superfluous and frankly barbaric. It is a waste of resources and time.
> 
> That kid doesn't need imprisonment, he needs mental help. *He doesn't deserve to die because he's fucked in the head*. I see these people in the same way I see a dog - can you blame a dog for attacking and killing someone? It's simply a mental problem that needs to be rehabilitated, and if not possible to rehabilitate, the person should be kept away from others.
> 
> ...



Im not trying to attack but to understand.  Who does deserve death? Is there a number of kills one has to perform? Do you oppose the death penalty but are pro to torture(not necessarily physical torture)? Has anyone in history deserved to die in your opinion and what specific action had they performed for them to be so deserving?

Also


> Death wouldn't satisfy me. There are things far, far worse than death. I'd want them to contemplate what they've done in life imprisonment.


_Psychopathy is a mental disorder characterized primarily by a lack of empathy and remorse, shallow emotions, egocentricity, and deceptiveness.
_
So if this kid is a Psychopath what would be your second form of punishment be since the one you just gave will clearly be ineffective?


----------



## -Dargor- (Sep 4, 2011)

Griever said:


> No it doesn't, killing someone who has wronged you in this way does not make one scum, *hell even if the girls mother took a gun to the guys trial and shot him dead in the court, i wouldn't hold it against her at all*. It's what i'd do if i where in her shoes and my kids killer was only getting a 14 year sentence fuck that, i wouldn't be able to rest till the fuckers dead.



You know that's actually a good idea, when someone is shown guilty of murder they should just stop being under protection of the law, AKA victim's relatives can shoot you on sight if they want to and it won't be held against them.

It would be fast, effective and cost efficient. No more lifetime penalty taxes, no more waiting 12 years before the execution, not to mention the fucker is gonna be scared as hell not knowing when, where or how he's gonna get shot.


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## Griever (Sep 4, 2011)

Mintaka said:


> Appeal to emotion fallacy says hi.
> 
> Going vigilantee on his ass doesn't make you any better than he is.  We have governments and punishments in place for this kind of thing for a reason.



Well your under the false impression that parents who lose a child give two squirts of piss if there actions are any better, so long as it gets done. who's better than who is highly pointless in the end, it gets you nothing.

but i disagree altogather with your statement, as i said before, if the girls mother went and shot him down i wouldn't look down on her at all.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 4, 2011)

-Dargor- said:


> You know that's actually a good idea, when someone is shown guilty of murder they should just stop being under protection of the law, AKA victim's relatives can shoot you on sight if they want to and it won't be held against them.
> 
> It would be fast, effective and cost efficient. No more lifetime penalty taxes, no more waiting 12 years before the execution, not to mention the fucker is gonna be scared as hell not knowing when, where or how he's gonna get shot.



There was a law, where if a person committed a serious crime he was taken out of society, in which the criminal was merely taken out of society in the repsect that it simply lost all protection from the law at that momment.


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## Darklyre (Sep 4, 2011)

what would you doOOOoo

for a klondike bar


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## King of heaven (Sep 4, 2011)

Executing him is not the way to go because his death won't bring back the victim , he will be dead and freed from suffering while the parents will have to suffer from the loss their child for the rest of their life.

Life sentence is what he deserve , this way he will have his share of suffering just like the parents , he took somebody's life on purpose , his freedom will be taken away on purpose , this girl will never see the sun again , he will never be free again and will be in a living hell for life.


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## Elim Rawne (Sep 4, 2011)

I haven't read the article or the whole thread, but I'm going out on a limb and say that there's at least one person going "OMG KILL TEH ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" and more rational people respond to it with "OMG KILL THE ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) MAKEZ U ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) TO"


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## Borel (Sep 4, 2011)

Griever said:


> Well your under the false impression that parents who lose a child give two squirts of piss if there actions are any better, so long as it gets done. who's better than who is highly pointless in the end, it gets you nothing.


This is exactly why the mother isn't the one who gets to decide.



> but i disagree altogather with your statement, as i said before, if the girls mother went and shot him down i wouldn't look down on her at all.


Good for you.



Elim Rawne said:


> I haven't read the article or the whole thread, but I'm going out on a limb and say that there's at least one person going "OMG KILL TEH ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" and more rational people respond to it with "OMG KILL THE ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) MAKEZ U ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) TO"


It seems like there are more people of the former category, to be honest.


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## Jin-E (Sep 4, 2011)

Fucked up.

As for capital punishment....well, aside from the US and Somalia, everyone else outlaw the death penalty for people under the age of 18.


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## lacey (Sep 4, 2011)

Death's too good a punishment for someone like that.

S'better to give him a life sentence.


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## Griever (Sep 4, 2011)

Borel said:


> This is exactly why the mother isn't the one who gets to decide.



Which is why in 14 years when he gets out, someone may end up killing him, hell it's not even impossible to get someone killed while they're in prison.  



> Good for you.



The motive makes the difference not the action.


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## Kiss (Sep 4, 2011)

That's fucked up. Just horrible.


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## Seph (Sep 4, 2011)

> So do you assume every murderer "just needs rehabilitation"? You made a thread asking if Muhammad was evil. Would you say he too, needed rehabilitation, if he was alive today (imagine he did all those things today)?



I said "depending on the opinion of psychiatrists", did I not? If there's a chance it can work, why shouldn't we give a reformed murderer another chance in life? You only live once.

I said earlier that I see mentally ill people in the same way I see dogs - why should I blame them for killing someone? It's like blaming a little kid for doing something wrong - they can't control what they do. What good would punishing them do? What good would killing them do? They should however, be kept in prison to protect others. That is the only use of keeping them in prison.



> I'm not saying it should be done because its "rude" to her mother. If you had read that in my post, I would advise you reading it once more. I said it is a *spit in the name of justice for the girls* (daughter and mother).



The bolded part is basically the same as saying it's rude to her mother.

By that logic, we should be doing everything everyone wants because "it's a spit on someone's justice".



> So? He liked horror movies. Lots of people are insanely in love with them, lots of people collect horror movies and make horror movies for their job. Liking a movie only suggests, not proves. And once more, he hated this girl to the point he wanted to murder her. Its not that he was sick in the head, it was that he hated her and wanted her dead.
> 
> Lots of controlling and calculating people aren't murderers. Most likely jackasses, but not murderers. Same goes for the devious.



Yes, it does suggest it, thank you for agreeing with me. 

Psychopaths tend to be charming on the outside (the article mentions him as popular and intelligent) and devious inside (called devious, controlling and calculating). This is basic and you should be aware of it.



> According to Hare, many psychopaths are superficially charming, and can excellently mimic normal human emotion;[10] some psychopaths can blend in, undetected, in a variety of surroundings, including corporate environments.[34]



This kid is clearly a psychopath.



> Why? Murder is murder. You're just as barbaric as you claimed me to be if you want his life to end either way.
> 
> Its not a contradiction and these punishments exist to protect, even if you think its barbaric or that it isn't designed of it.
> 
> Oh yes life imprisonment, but 14 years isn't a life time, is it?



Yes, I am still a human and I won't deny that I am flawed, but I try to be better than others.

They don't protect. I'm too lazy to get them but there are plenty of studies that prove that the death penalty doesn't work as a deterrent.

Did I decide the sentence? No. Well, if it were up to me, I'd keep that kid in prison if he can't be rehabilitated (which I doubt he can be).



> Im not trying to attack but to understand. Who does deserve death? Is there a number of kills one has to perform? Do you oppose the death penalty but are pro to torture(not necessarily physical torture)? Has anyone in history deserved to die in your opinion and what specific action had they performed for them to be so deserving?



Determining that one "deserves" death is a fallacy because as humans, I don't think we have the right to quantify what we deserve. By that logic, we should be raping rapists, and etc. It makes us no better than murderers and rapists.

I'm against torture.



> So if this kid is a Psychopath what would be your second form of punishment be since the one you just gave will clearly be ineffective?



Rehabilitation, and if it doesn't work, keep him out of society (prison).


----------



## Borel (Sep 4, 2011)

Griever said:


> Which is why in 14 years when he gets out, someone may end up killing him, hell it's not even impossible to get someone killed while they're in prison.


We should kill him because someone else might kill him at some point? What is it you're trying to say?



> The motive makes the difference not the action.


And I suppose we'll always have you tell us which motives are acceptable and which aren't.


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## thekingisback (Sep 4, 2011)

This article makes me sick. I hope the kid dies a horrible death.


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## Griever (Sep 4, 2011)

Borel said:


> We should kill him because someone else might kill him at some point? What is it you're trying to say?



Do you realize what just happened here?. 

In the case you just addressed in your post, it would mean that not only did the justice system fail to bring justice, but they created another so called murderer in the process... and you don't see a problem with that huh?.


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## Borel (Sep 4, 2011)

Griever said:


> Do you realize what just happened here?.
> 
> In the case you just addressed in your post, it would mean that not only did the justice system fail to bring justice,


You're confusing justice with revenge and bloodlust.





> but they created another so called murderer in the process... and you don't see a problem with that huh?.


The justice system doesn't exist to satisfy people's thirst for blood. And there would be nothing "so called" about that potential murderer.


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Sep 4, 2011)

This degenerate fuck bag needs be hung.


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## Sophie (Sep 4, 2011)

;_; What the fuck is happening to today's youth? Seems like it gets worse by the year.


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## VoDe (Sep 4, 2011)

_Hello Joshua Davies. You don't know me, but I know you. I want to play a game. Here's what happens if you lose. The device you are wearing is hooked into your upper and lower jaw. When the timer in the back goes off, your mouth will be permanently ripped open. Think of it like a reverse bear trap. There is only one key to open the device. I'm going to give you a hint as to where I've hidden the key, so listen carefully. The hint is this... It's right before your eyes. Look around Joshua. Know that I'm not lying. Better hurry up. Live or die, make your choice._

... Damn that will never happen.


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## Fan o Flight (Sep 4, 2011)

Kid must have been pretty hungry. I cant believe he did that. There must be some serious issues going on


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## Terra Branford (Sep 4, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> I said "depending on the opinion of psychiatrists", did I not? If there's a chance it can work, why shouldn't we give a reformed murderer another chance in life? You only live once.


Oh, you did. My bad Sephiran, I was pretty tired last night. 

Okay, we give them a chance. If the man who murdered your daughter went under rehabilitation, would you chance him now being 'okay' enough to function in society? To not get angry at another ex-girlfriend and murder her?



Sephiran said:


> I said earlier that I see mentally ill people in the same way I see dogs - why should I blame them for killing someone? It's like blaming a little kid for doing something wrong - they can't control what they do. What good would punishing them do? What good would killing them do? They should however, be kept in prison to protect others. That is the only use of keeping them in prison..



And what if this kid _isn't_ mentally insane and _still_ gets 14 years and freedom after? Then what...?



Sephiran said:


> The bolded part is basically the same as saying it's rude to her mother.
> 
> By that logic, we should be doing everything everyone wants because "it's a spit on someone's justice"..



No its not. Its justice not being done, not like some insult or someone being rude to her. Its not like someone called her fat, or gave her attitude. Its justice, something the system is supposed to give victims, not something done because its "rude" to the victim to lighten the sentence.

No, we should be punishing those by its fullest when it needs to be punished by its fullest. Again, I never said let them do whatever they want. I said give the girl the justice she deserves.



Sephiran said:


> Yes, it does suggest it, thank you for agreeing with me.
> 
> Psychopaths tend to be charming on the outside (the article mentions him as popular and intelligent) and devious inside (called devious, controlling and calculating). This is basic and you should be aware of it..



Suggests, not proves. Yet _you_ claim he is *definitely is a psychopath.* It only suggests. Anything else you do it straight up assumption, and the law doesn't work on assumptions and "iffy" things, does it?

Again, _so_? Saying that because he was popular and intelligent and controlling (like nearly all teenagers in school!) he is a Psychopath is wrong to do.



Sephiran said:


> This kid is clearly a psychopath..



_See._You claim (for certainty) he is (a Psychopath) based on practically nothing since nearly *all* teenagers are controlling, devious little popular (or unpopular) teenagers. Cunning? They think of things to mess with other kids. Devious? Well, I don't have to describe that. Controlling? Peer-Pressure and more.

You cannot automatically assume he is a mentally insane kid because he is popular, controlling, intelligent and devious.



Sephiran said:


> Yes, I am still a human and I won't deny that I am flawed, but I try to be better than others.
> 
> They don't protect. I'm too lazy to get them but there are plenty of studies that prove that the death penalty doesn't work as a deterrent.
> 
> Did I decide the sentence? No. Well, if it were up to me, I'd keep that kid in prison if he can't be rehabilitated (which I doubt he can be)..



But murder is murder and you claimed me to be "barbaric" (or something like that) because I said the kid needs to be punished to the law's fullest extinct for his actions. Yet you saying killing the kid by hand is somehow "better" than the alternative in prison? How does that make sense?

If you are flawed and would still want the kid dead either way, don't go telling people (especially a mother who lost her daughter) that they are just as bad as the murderer when you yourself, would still have the kid killed.

No, you didn't and that's not what I meant. I meant 14 years for  him and the mother and daughter's justice is undone, and that the kid needs to be punished by the fullest of the law because nothing but assumptions based on practically nothing, exists to say he's "crazy".


----------



## Seph (Sep 4, 2011)

> Okay, we give them a chance. If the man who murdered your daughter went under rehabilitation, would you chance him now being 'okay' enough to function in society? To not get angry at another ex-girlfriend and murder her?



If he really was cured of his mental problem, then yes, he should be given another chance by the government. I admit that I am human and personally would want him dead (not by the death penalty though) if that happened to my daughter, but that's how it should be done and I shouldn't be given any personal exception by the government to kill him.

I don't deserve to do whatever I want to my daughter's murderer just because he/she murdered my daughter. That's an Islamic way of thinking.



> And what if this kid isn't mentally insane and still gets 14 years and freedom after? Then what...?



Depends on if he's still a harm to the society.



> No its not. Its justice not being done, not like some insult or someone being rude to her. Its not like someone called her fat, or gave her attitude. Its justice, something the system is supposed to give victims, not something done because its "rude" to the victim to lighten the sentence.



Why is it justice? Since we kill murderers, why shouldn't we rape rapists? Why shouldn't we torture torturers? Why shouldn't we.. and so on. What makes the death penalty so special? It's just another immoral act.

Your personal definition of justice is a fallacy.



> Suggests, not proves. Yet you claim he is definitely is a psychopath. It only suggests. Anything else you do it straight up assumption, and the law doesn't work on assumptions and "iffy" things, does it?
> 
> Again, so? Saying that because he was popular and intelligent and controlling (like nearly all teenagers in school!) he is a Psychopath is wrong to do.



I should have expounded on my previous point. I meant that the combination of those two paragraphs clearly indicate, with almost 100% certainty, that the kid is a psychopath.

Of course, you're right in stating that one alone does not prove he's a psychopath. But the writer of the article clearly feels as the same way as I do, why else would he/she put them? As trivia?



> You cannot automatically assume he is a mentally insane kid because he is popular, controlling, intelligent and devious.



I didn't, see above.



> But murder is murder and you claimed me to be "barbaric" (or something like that) because I said the kid needs to be punished to the law's fullest extinct for his actions. Yet you saying killing the kid by hand is somehow "better" than the alternative in prison? How does that make sense?



I just said I try to be a better person, not that I am. When it comes to children, all bets are off.



> If you are flawed and would still want the kid dead either way, don't go telling people (especially a mother who lost her daughter) that they are just as bad as the murderer when you yourself, would still have the kid killed.



It's not like the kid is their own daughter.. come on, you know better than to say something like that.



> No, you didn't and that's not what I meant. I meant 14 years for him and the mother and daughter's justice is undone, and that the kid needs to be punished by the fullest of the law because nothing but assumptions based on practically nothing, exists to say he's "crazy".



Why should he be punished? Why would you punish a dog for killing a girl? Why would you punish a lion for eating someone? Can they really learn from punishment? I don't think so.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 4, 2011)

You're confusing Psychopathy with Sociopathy, Sephiran and Terra Bradford.


----------



## Seph (Sep 4, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You're confusing Psychopathy with Sociopathy, Sephiran and Terra Bradford.



We're not actually. It's more that we don't know what exactly he is.



> Hare writes that the difference between sociopathy and psychopathy may "reflect the user's views on the origins and determinates of the disorder." The term sociopathy may be preferred by sociologists that see the causes as due to social factors. The term psychopathy may be preferred by psychologists who see the causes as due to a combination of psychological, genetic, and environmental factors



We don't know what the causes are, so..


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 4, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> If he really was cured of his mental problem, then yes, he should be given another chance by the government. I admit that I am human and personally would want him dead (not by the death penalty though) if that happened to my daughter, but that's how it should be done and I shouldn't be given any personal exception by the government to kill him.
> 
> I don't deserve to do whatever I want to my daughter's murderer just because he/she murdered my daughter. That's an Islamic way of thinking.


Why not the death penalty though? Why won't you answer how it is different from you murdering the kid and not the prison? You are just as much as a monster as you claim others to be. And since you feel this way, don't comment on what others would do or want in this case.

And if it doesn't help murderers? But okay, how long does this "rehabilitation"  run on before someone figures out it actually doesn't help? How many murderers will be set free on the streets to murder again?



Sephiran said:


> Depends on if he's still a harm to the society.



I doubt a murderer who isn't mentally insane won't still be harmful to society, but I will sorta agree on this.



Sephiran said:


> Why is it justice? Since we kill murderers, why shouldn't we rape rapists? Why shouldn't we torture torturers? Why shouldn't we.. and so on. What makes the death penalty so special? It's just another immoral act.
> 
> Your personal definition of justice is a fallacy.


Its not my definition of justice, and just repeating that its "fallacy" to every single poster here doesn't make it so. This justice is the definition by the country, not by me. And if it was by me, you have no room to comment on it since you are just as "bloodthirsty" as I am.



Sephiran said:


> I should have expounded on my previous point. I meant that the combination of those two paragraphs clearly indicate, with almost 100% certainty, that the kid is a psychopath.
> 
> Of course, you're right in stating that one alone does not prove he's a psychopath. But the writer of the article clearly feels as the same way as I do, why else would he/she put them? As trivia?



Again, you are assuming and giving "100% certainty" that is is a psychopath based on things nearly all teenagers feel and do.

So because the author of this article feels he's a Psychopath, it makes it even more true? How so? Until you have unfathomable prove that he is a Psychopath, you cannot say he is and that he needs to be punished as one.



Sephiran said:


> I didn't, see above.



You did:


*Spoiler*: __ 





Sephiran said:


> *That kid doesn't need imprisonment, he needs mental help. He doesn't deserve to die because he's fucked in the head. I see these people in the same way I see a dog - can you blame a dog for attacking and killing someone? It's simply a mental problem that needs to be rehabilitated, and if not possible to rehabilitate, the person should be kept away from others.*





Sephiran said:


> Part of the article is dedicated to showing that he is, indeed, fucked in the head.
> 
> *
> Davies, who collected antique knives, swords and guns from the age of nine and was fixated on horror films, had often discussed ways to kill Rebecca with friends.*
> ...





Sephiran said:


> Psychopaths tend to be charming on the outside (the article mentions him as popular and intelligent) and devious inside (called devious, controlling and calculating). This is basic and you should be aware of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Sephiran said:


> I should have expounded on my previous point. *I meant that the combination of those two paragraphs clearly indicate, with almost 100% certainty, that the kid is a psychopath.*








Sephiran said:


> I just said I try to be a better person, not that I am. When it comes to children, all bets are off.


How does that make you a better person?

So you can pick and choose when to feel this way?



Sephiran said:


> It's not like the kid is their own daughter.. come on, you know better than to say something like that.



So the murdered girl isn't that mother's daughter? What are you talking about? Please elaborate (or rephrase), I think I may have misunderstood you. 



Sephiran said:


> Why should he be punished? Why would you punish a dog for killing a girl? Why would you punish a lion for eating someone? Can they really learn from punishment? I don't think so.



Why should he be punished? Because he's a dirty scumbag that murdered an innocent girl (his ex-girlfriend) he hated. That's why he needs to be punished.

Animals murdering (they absolutely cannot understand -- 100% cannot) and people murdering (even the mentally insane have more mind power and understanding than a animal) are completely different cases, do not compare them unless you want to say people are just animals.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 4, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> We're not actually. It's more that we don't know what exactly he is.


A psychopath is considerably _less_ dangerous than a sociopath due to how they act. A psychopath is easily treated and warning signs are VERY clear. Sociopaths though? They are extremely difficult to spot, act normal on the surface, and can kill people at the drop of the hat, for minor or inane reasons due to their lack of empathy.


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## Seph (Sep 4, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> A psychopath is considerably _less_ dangerous than a sociopath due to how they act. A psychopath is easily treated and warning signs are VERY clear. Sociopaths though? They are extremely difficult to spot, act normal on the surface, and can kill people at the drop of the hat, for minor or inane reasons due to their lack of empathy.



You don't know anything at all about this topic, so I suggest you stop.

Psychopaths act normal on the surface too - just Google it or something. Do you even know anything at all about this topic? Please don't make ignorant statements.



> The age old debate of psychopathy versus sociopathy is not one that can be answered easily. This is mainly because the words are often used interchangeably, and even when the terms are clearly defined by one scholar, another may disagree and choose to use the term in an entirely different fashion. Looking up these terms in dictionaries can lead to more confusion as the definition for psychopathy may include the word sociopathy in its description and vice versa!





> In other words, in the mental health field there is some consensus that psychopathy is more of an innate phenomenon whereas sociopathy, which has a similar clinical presentation to psychopathy, is more the result of environmental factors (poverty, exposure to violence, permissive or neglectful parenting, etc.).



Psychopathy is also very nearly impossible to treat, proving once again that you are completely clueless about this topic.



> In practice, mental health professionals rarely treat psychopathic personality disorders as they are often considered untreatable and no interventions have proved to be effective



Please don't post here again without researching. I'll be ignoring your posts until you do.


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## Seph (Sep 4, 2011)

> Why not the death penalty though? Why won't you answer how it is different from you murdering the kid and not the prison? You are just as much as a monster as you claim others to be. And since you feel this way, don't comment on what others would do or want in this case.



Do you really, REALLY think (I repeat, REALLY) wanting the murderer of my own daughter dead makes me the same as people on the internet who read an article about a murderer and want him dead? *Really?*



> And if it doesn't help murderers? But okay, how long does this "rehabilitation" run on before someone figures out it actually doesn't help? How many murderers will be set free on the streets to murder again?



1. Same as like in Norway and Germany. 15-21 years, if I recall correctly.
2. Almost none. If they are determined to not be a threat by professionals, then almost none (I'm also considering human error).



> Its not my definition of justice, and just repeating that its "fallacy" to every single poster here doesn't make it so. This justice is the definition by the country, not by me. And if it was by me, you have no room to comment on it since you are just as "bloodthirsty" as I am.



Clearly, you want this man dead for murdering someone else. Do you want a rapist to get raped, too?

I told you that they are completely different things.



> Again, you are assuming and giving "100% certainty" that is is a psychopath based on things nearly all teenagers feel and do.



Hmm? Being popular and intelligent outside and calculating and devious inside is the personality of nearly every teenager? Well, I thought most teenagers were out to get drunk and laid...

I don't think collecting guns, knives and swords is normal for a 9 year old, by the way.



> You did:



You misunderstand, I meant that I didn't assume he was a psychopath based on merely a single point. I meant it was a combination of two points.



> How does that make you a better person?
> 
> So you can pick and choose when to feel this way?



Again, I said I try to be.

_Pick and choose?_ Humans have developed an affinity to protect and nurture their young by evolution. How I would feel is completely normal, in fact, it's even encouraged by evolution.



> So the murdered girl isn't that mother's daughter? What are you talking about? Please elaborate (or rephrase), I think I may have misunderstood you.



1. You stated that I'm like the other people who posted on this thread.
2. I said that I'd want the person who murdered my own daughter dead.
3. But the people on this thread read an article on the Internet about someone else's daughter and wanted him dead.
4. They are completely different things.
5. You should know better than that.



> Why should he be punished? Because he's a dirty scumbag that murdered an innocent girl (his ex-girlfriend) he hated. That's why he needs to be punished.
> 
> Animals murdering (they absolutely cannot understand -- 100% cannot) and people murdering (even the mentally insane have more mind power and understanding than a animal) are completely different cases, do not compare them unless you want to say people are just animals.



But you haven't given a good reason to punish them yet. How can mentally ill people learn from punishment? That's the only reason you would punish someone (unless it's to satisfy yourself).


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## Lord Stark (Sep 4, 2011)

Execute the bastard.


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## Sky is Over (Sep 4, 2011)

Hmmm, the mother's request seems fair, she's the one that has to suffer for his actions.


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## Xabsol (Sep 4, 2011)

I know this is horrible and sick, but it's getting a few laughs out of my mates as a kid in my class has the same name as the guy.


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## Redshadow49 (Sep 4, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> Determining that one "deserves" death is a fallacy because as humans, I don't think we have the right to quantify what we deserve. By that logic, we should be raping rapists, and etc. It makes us no better than murderers and rapists.


If I understand you correctly though, then the justice system that you, me and everyone abides by is incorrect to mere fact that no human can determine what punishment is deserving of a said crime(what we hold to be criminal).     



> I'm against torture.
> Rehabilitation, and if it doesn't work, keep him out of society (prison).


Some may argue that imprisonment without any hope of release is a form of torture and that the death penalty could be phrased, in a situations like this, as a mercy killing as apposed to revenge.


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## Seph (Sep 4, 2011)

> If I understand you correctly though, then the justice system that you, me and everyone abides by is incorrect to mere fact that no human can determine what punishment is deserving of a said crime(what we hold to be criminal).



I prefer a system like Europe's, where emphasis is given on rehabilitation and not on punishing people.



> Some may argue that imprisonment without any hope of release is a form of torture and that the death penalty could be phrased, in a situations like this, as a mercy killing as apposed to revenge.



What else do you suggest to do to keep other people from being harmed?

The death penalty is a form of torture as well. How would you feel if you tried to appeal the decision to execute you and failed? How would you feel if you knew your date of death? And so on.


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## Terra Branford (Sep 4, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> Do you really, REALLY think (I repeat, REALLY) wanting the murderer of my own daughter dead makes me the same as people on the internet who read an article about a murderer and want him dead? *Really?*



It makes you the same, yes. Murder is murder. Unless your argument is a double-standard, murder is murder and wanting murder either way is "barbaric" no matter the connection you may or may not have, to the victim and the murderer.

Though I was saying "kill him" to enforce the fullness of the law that he, by law, deserved. In a way, I was reasserting what the mother said only I am backing it with what the law requires.




Sephiran said:


> 1. Same as like in Norway and Germany. 15-21 years, if I recall correctly.
> 2. Almost none. If they are determined to not be a threat by professionals, then almost none (I'm also considering human error).



What do you mean? Are those years you listed an answer to my "how long until" question? If so, disregard this question and please show me how this works (statistics, studies etc etc).



Sephiran said:


> Clearly, you want this man dead for murdering someone else. Do you want a rapist to get raped, too?
> 
> I told you that they are completely different things.


I want this murderer punished fully. It makes me feel sick knowing a murderer gets only 14 years and is free to go murdered another person. And if I did, so what? How do you have the right to judge another person who wants a murderer gone when you yourself would want him dead if it was someone _you_ loved? 

I want a rapist to be punished fully by the law. I wouldn't want him to be tortured either. I would want him to be punished fully. Please stop saying "by your logic, rapists should be raped etc etc" because that's not what I am saying nor any other person. We never said "let the victims parents/whatnot decide the punishment" at least I never did. I said punish him fully, by the book.



Sephiran said:


> Hmm? Being popular and intelligent outside and calculating and devious inside is the personality of nearly every teenager? Well, I thought most teenagers were out to get drunk and laid...
> 
> I don't think collecting guns, knives and swords is normal for a 9 year old, by the way.


They also get drunk and laid. Ever been to an American highschool? Teenagers are popular, controlling and not all are intelligent, but a good amount of them are. Most devious, mean people (not murderers!) are calculating. You cannot use these traits to label a person as mentally insane.




Sephiran said:


> You misunderstand, I meant that I didn't assume he was a psychopath based on merely a single point. I meant it was a combination of two points.



Instead you assume he's a psychopath based on "traits" a love for horror movies and...? You still assume he is a Psychopath either way and that he should be punished as such.



Sephiran said:


> Again, I said I try to be.
> 
> _Pick and choose?_ Humans have developed an affinity to protect and nurture their young by evolution. How I would feel is completely normal, in fact, it's even encouraged by evolution.
> 
> ...



And people protect others and feel the need to want justice and protection for another (example is this thread!). Murder is murder, Sephiran. You cannot pick when its barbaric and evil and "just like the murderer" and you cannot judge another person when what you feel is still "evil and barbaric". Being related to the victim does not change it.

You are like the same people you compared us to. What you don't understand is that you think its magically alright or "better" to want to kill him with your own hands rather than the murderer being killed in prison. 



Sephiran said:


> But you haven't given a good reason to punish them yet. How can mentally ill people learn from punishment? That's the only reason you would punish someone (unless it's to satisfy yourself).



Not the mentally ill, they need to put into the hands of people who can take care of them. The problem is you assume this kid is mentally insane because of a few traits teenagers in American possess and his love of horror movies and that based on this assumption, he "has" to be mentally insane and punished as such.

Until a report comes out that states this kid is in need of mental help, he isn't and needs to be charged fully because he is a murderer.



> The death penalty is a form of torture as well. How would you feel if you tried to appeal the decision to execute you and failed? How would you feel if you knew your date of death? And so on.


How did his victim feel when he was strangling her? How did she feel knowing she would never see her mother again? Have her own children? Get into a great college and into a great job? Never have a husband or grow old with? How do you think she felt when he smashed her skull with a rock? She knew her date of death and it was barbaric death.


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## Gunners (Sep 4, 2011)

> And people protect others and feel the need to want justice and protection for another (example is this thread!). Murder is murder, Sephiran. You cannot pick when its barbaric and evil and "just like the murderer" and you cannot judge another person when what you feel is still "evil and barbaric". Being related to the victim does not change it.


Being related to victim does change things. For instance if he taunted the mother about killing the girl and she murdered him she could use provocation as a defense and have the charge reduced. The same defense wouldn't work for someone who is not family.

Can't be bothered to quote you but on this but the kid is probably a psychopath. I don't know why it upsets you that he is mentally unstable, it's not like it would effect his sentence or makes his actions excusable.


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## Redshadow49 (Sep 4, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> I prefer a system like Europe's, where emphasis is given on rehabilitation and not on punishing people.


Either one must give out a significant result.  Since the crime rate for Europe is same if not higher then the United States (we can also agree that majority of those are probably repeat offenders) no one can give an adequate reason why we should switch.    



> What else do you suggest to do to keep other people from being harmed?
> 
> The death penalty is a form of torture as well. How would you feel if you tried to appeal the decision to execute you and failed? How would you feel if you knew your date of death? And so on.


Will imagine a day where everything you do is scheduled by another.  Where you spent most of your time in a 9x6 cell and none of the luxuries you expect in life.  A place where everyone around you are more likely to kill you and or beat you then to befriend you.  Now imagine you have to go through the same thing everyday for the rest of your life. 

Also if were talking about psychopathy then fear is not a factor in waiting.


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## Seph (Sep 4, 2011)

> It makes you the same, yes. Murder is murder. Unless your argument is a double-standard, murder is murder and wanting murder either way is "barbaric" no matter the connection you may or may not have, to the victim and the murderer.



That's just horrible logic. How can you consider all levels of murder the same?

What about murder in the case of saving someone's life?
What about murder in self-defense?
What about murder to defend your country?

I can give plenty of more examples.

Since you love the law so much, do you realize that the law doesn't punish people the same for each murder? It depends based on if the murder was premediated and not impulsive, and etc.

_How on earth_ can you call those two the same things? How on earth can you honestly be as short-sighted as that? Frankly, it's disappointing. I expected more from you.



> What do you mean? Are those years you listed an answer to my "how long until" question? If so, disregard this question and please show me how this works (statistics, studies etc etc).





> The maximum determinate penalty is 21 years imprisonment, but only a small percentage of prisoners serve more than 14 years. Prisoners will typically get unsupervised parole for weekends etc. after serving ⅓ of their sentence (a maximum of 7 years) and can receive early release after serving ⅔ of their sentence (a maximum of 14 years). In 2008, to fulfill its requirements under the Rome Statute, Norway created a new maximal penalty of 30 years for crimes against humanity.[1]
> 
> The maximum indeterminate penalty, called "containment" (Norwegian: forvaring), is also set at 21 years imprisonment, and the prisoner is required to serve at least 10 years before becoming eligible for parole. "Containment" is used when the prisoner is deemed a danger to society and there is a great chance of committing violent crimes in the future. If the prisoner is still considered dangerous after serving the original sentence, the prisoner can receive up to five years additional containment. If the additional time is served, and the offender is still considered dangerous, a prisoner can continue to receive up to five years additional containment, and this, in theory, could result in actual life imprisonment.[2] However, the offender can be paroled or released at any time if it is determined that the offender is no longer a danger to society.





> In cases where the convict is found to pose a clear and present danger to society, the sentence may include a provision for "preventive detention" (German: Sicherungsverwahrung) after the actual sentence. This is not considered a punishment, but a protection of the public, and elements of prison discipline that are not directly security-related will be relaxed for those in preventive detention. The preventive detention is prolonged every two years until it is found that the convict is unlikely to commit further crimes. Preventive detention may last for longer than 10 years, and is used only in exceptional cases. Since 2004, it is also possible for preventive detention to be ordered by a court after the original sentencing if the danger that a criminal poses upon release becomes obvious only during their imprisonment.



Do you understand better now?



> I want this murderer punished fully. It makes me feel sick knowing a murderer gets only 14 years and is free to go murdered another person. And if I did, so what? How do you have the right to judge another person who wants a murderer gone when you yourself would want him dead if it was someone you loved?



Because they're completely different situations. 

My daughter would be my own reason for living, the purpose of life, and I'd have a great deal of experiences for her. I'd have genuine feelings for her.

However, I'm not some kid on the internet who screams for the death of a murderer because of a stupid article. They have no past feelings whatsoever, it's not like they were friends with the victim, were they?

How on earth can you be so short-sighted as to call these two the same things?



> I want a rapist to be punished fully by the law. I wouldn't want him to be tortured either. I would want him to be punished fully. Please stop saying "by your logic, rapists should be raped etc etc" because that's not what I am saying nor any other person. We never said "let the victims parents/whatnot decide the punishment" at least I never did. I said punish him fully, by the book.



Well then, what makes you think the law is perfect? What makes you think it's okay to punish people with the US law?

This is why I prefer the system in Europe. It doesn't punish people - it focuses on healing people and gives them a chance in life if they really do heal. The US system is unforgiving, and biased towards people with money and those who are white.



> They also get drunk and laid. Ever been to an American highschool? Teenagers are popular, controlling and not all are intelligent, but a good amount of them are. Most devious, mean people (not murderers!) are calculating. You cannot use these traits to label a person as mentally insane.



Come on, do you really, really think most teenagers are popular? Do you really think most people are manipulative? Intelligent? Devious? Calculating? I just moved in to a college in the US, and people are more concerned about partying and hooking up than about manipulating people. 

I think you know that you're being kinda ridiculous.



> Instead you assume he's a psychopath based on "traits" a love for horror movies and...? You still assume he is a Psychopath either way and that he should be punished as such.



I assume he's one based on the combination of those two statements (the first being that he collected lethal weapons, and the second being that he had the personality of a textbook psychopath).



> And people protect others and feel the need to want justice and protection for another (example is this thread!). Murder is murder, Sephiran. You cannot pick when its barbaric and evil and "just like the murderer" and you cannot judge another person when what you feel is still "evil and barbaric". Being related to the victim does not change it.



Murder is horrible, and I admit that I'm flawed for having these thoughts if I had my own daughter. But you can't compare me to people on the internet who read an article online and call me the same as them. You just can't.

Yes, being related to the victim changes everything. _Loving someone changes everything._ You know this.



> Not the mentally ill, they need to put into the hands of people who can take care of them. The problem is you assume this kid is mentally insane because of a few traits teenagers in American possess and his love of horror movies and that based on this assumption, he "has" to be mentally insane and punished as such.
> 
> Until a report comes out that states this kid is in need of mental help, he isn't and needs to be charged fully because he is a murderer.



I have no doubt in my mind that he's a psychopath.



> Either one must give out a significant result. Since the crime rate for Europe is same if not higher then the United States (we can also agree that majority of those are probably repeat offenders) no one can give an adequate reason why we should switch.



HAHAHAH what? Prove this please.



> Will imagine a day where everything you do is scheduled by another. Where you spent most of your time in a 9x6 cell and none of the luxuries you expect in life. A place where everyone around you are more likely to kill you and or beat you then to befriend you. Now imagine you have to go through the same thing everyday for the rest of your life.



This isn't the system I have in mind, though. As I was saying before, I don't prefer life imprisonment, but a system like Europe's, where the maximum is around 20 years unless the person can be rehabilitated.


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## Gunners (Sep 4, 2011)

> What about murder in the case of saving someone's life?
> What about murder in self-defense?
> What about murder to defend your country?


Those things wouldn't be murder.


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## Seph (Sep 4, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Those things wouldn't be murder.



You're right. Murder requires malice.

But then, one could argue that killing the murderer of your daughter isn't murder either, because it isn't evil.


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## Gunners (Sep 4, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> You're right. Murder requires malice.
> 
> But then, one could argue that killing the murderer of your daughter isn't murder either, because it isn't evil.



In legal context malice aforethought isn't 'evil' it just an actual intent to commit the act of murder.


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## Seph (Sep 4, 2011)

Gunners said:


> In legal context malice aforethought isn't 'evil' it just an actual intent to commit the act of murder.





It goes under "justifiable homicide".


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## Gunners (Sep 4, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> It goes under "justifiable homicide".



Not related to what I am telling you. The act not being evil does not prevent an act amounting to murder. I mentioned in my previous post that as the mother she could have defenses available to her.


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## Seph (Sep 4, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Not related to what I am telling you. The act not being evil does not prevent an act amounting to murder. I mentioned in my previous post that as the mother she could have defenses available to her.



I know that. I'm just trying to prove to Terra that the action can be excused in my case.


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## Terra Branford (Sep 4, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Sephiran said:


> That's just horrible logic. How can you consider all levels of murder the same?
> 
> What about murder in the case of saving someone's life?
> What about murder in self-defense?
> ...


My logic is horrible? You want to assume someone is insane built on baseless assumptions that doctors would tell you were, quite frankly, absurd. You can't assume someone is mentally insane based on traits; it takes DEEP study of that person's mind. And using what someone likes, horror movies, as another point to say "oh my gosh! He's CLEARLY crazy!" is illogical.

It isn't murder if its done to save someone, or to protect them. I don't know what to say about the country thing, so...

Not all murder is the same, but you think because I or another person on the internet, doesn't "know" the victim when they say "kill him!", "he deserves to die" etc etc that "we're just as bad as the MURDERER." but you apply a double-standard to your argument by saying its not barbaric or evil to kill him by your own hands and that when done, you aren't like the murderer even if you killed that said person.



Sephiran said:


> Since you love the law so much, do you realize that the law doesn't punish people the same for each murder? It depends based on if the murder was premediated and not impulsive, and etc.
> 
> _How on earth_ can you call those two the same things? How on earth can you honestly be as short-sighted as that? Frankly, it's disappointing. I expected more from you.



I do realize that. But this murderer deserves to be served fully and given more than 14 years for this barbaric murder, and I also know the law screws up terribly when it comes to putting murderers away *coughcaseycough* sometimes.




Sephiran said:


> Do you understand better now?


Do I understand what? That different levels of murders etc are punished differently? Yes, I knew this and I never once hinted that I didn't. I'm not saying there isn't, I'm saying this kid deserved full punishment for his barbaric murder of his innocent ex-girlfriend, not that murders can be punished differently.

IF he is crazy, he will be punished as such. But nothing says he is, so he deserves to be punished fully.



Sephiran said:


> Because they're completely different situations.
> 
> My daughter would be my own reason for living, the purpose of life, and I'd have a great deal of experiences for her. I'd have genuine feelings for her.
> 
> However, I'm not some kid on the internet who screams for the death of a murderer because of a stupid article. They have no past feelings whatsoever, it's not like they were friends with the victim, were they?



They are not different. You cannot say murder is different than murder simply because you know the victim. I mean you could, but it kinda doesn't go with your argument. 

What makes it different though! Why aren't you answering? What makes your bloodthirsty attitude different than the people on the internet who feel for the victim and call for the scumbag's death? Why are the people who don't know the victim "bloodthirsty, barbaric murderers" by your argument but not you when you are willing to kill the kid *only* if he killed your kid? 

You obviously feel he deserves to die either way, but yet people are only barbaric if they want the justice system to kill the murderer if they don't know the victim? I'm sorry, but that's absurd. :/

You either are a barbaric murderer calling for someone's death, or you aren't. 



Sephiran said:


> How on earth can you be so short-sighted as to call these two the same things?



Look above.



Sephiran said:


> Well then, what makes you think the law is perfect? What makes you think it's okay to punish people with the US law?
> 
> This is why I prefer the system in Europe. It doesn't punish people - it focuses on healing people and gives them a chance in life if they really do heal. The US system is unforgiving, and biased towards people with money and those who are white.



I don't think the US law is perfect, I think parts of it work and parts of it doesn't. But the part that works needs to be given to this murderer.

Yea, where were those chances to the victims of those murderers? 

What? Where did this racist white people and bias for wealthy people come from? Was this all just a ploy to attack and insult America to get me angry? Well I'll tell you ahead of time -- I don't really care what people think of America 



Sephiran said:


> Come on, do you really, really think most teenagers are popular? Do you really think most people are manipulative? Intelligent? Devious? Calculating? I just moved in to a college in the US, and people are more concerned about partying and hooking up than about manipulating people.
> 
> I think you know that you're being kinda ridiculous.



No, that's why I said "or unpopular" in parenthesis. Most teenagers are manipulative. I also said not all are intelligent, but simply because someone is intelligent doesn't mean they are insane. That's idiotic to say. And yes, most teenagers are devious and calculating. Ever been the fat kid? The nerdy kid (Nerds are intelligent! Are they mentally insane?)? The "ugly" girl/boy that was picked on? That the popular ones calculated ways to mess with them? Were being devious to them? Were manipulative towards the unpopular kids (example, getting them to do their papers etc etc)?

I'm not being ridiculous. Teenagers are like that -- sorry. But to assume someone is mentally insane because they like horror movies? Because they are popular and intelligent? Because they manipulate people, are are devious? No, no...that is ridiculous. Tr telling that to a professional and see what he/she says to you.  These things suggests that they perhaps MIGHT have it, but just by that you cannot judge if one is mentally insane. It takes intense tests.



Sephiran said:


> I assume he's one based on the combination of those two statements (the first being that he collected lethal weapons, and the second being that he had the personality of a textbook psychopath).



Lots of people collect weapons; guns, swords, daggers, bullets, spears. Its a hobby.



Sephiran said:


> Murder is horrible, and I admit that I'm flawed for having these thoughts if I had my own daughter. But you can't compare me to people on the internet who read an article online and call me the same as them. You just can't.
> 
> Yes, being related to the victim changes everything. _Loving someone changes everything._ You know this.



Yes I can and I did. You claim us to be basic barbaric trash simply because we don't know the victim for wanting him dead. But its oh so good for YOU to murder someone ONLY if you know the victim (e.i mother/father/sister/brother).

That's both screwed up and illogical, Sephiran.



Sephiran said:


> I have no doubt in my mind that he's a psychopath.



Well then...it is a good thing the law doesn't run on assumptions and personal feelings. It is a good thing it runs on logic, tests, evidence and more. :/



> I know that. I'm just trying to prove to Terra that the action can be excused in my case.


There is no need. My point is that you cannot call someone barbaric for calling for death when you yourself would if it was your child because murder is murder and death is death. Even if you don't know the victim, it is still murder in your argument, but somehow it makes you a better person by killing that person by hand and a barbaric murderer if you want the law to kill him?

_*Maybe I am so tired right now my mind is hallucinating and I'm see your posts as something entirely different. If that's the case, maybe someone else can explain to me what you mean?*_

(If I don't reply, I've logged off for bed. So please don't think I'm ignoring you....unless you don't want this continued >.>


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## Seph (Sep 4, 2011)

> My logic is horrible? You want to assume someone is insane built on baseless assumptions that doctors would tell you were, quite frankly, absurd. You can't assume someone is mentally insane based on traits; it takes DEEP study of that person's mind. And using what someone likes, horror movies, as another point to say "oh my gosh! He's CLEARLY crazy!" is illogical.



Firstly, this is irrelevant to that part of my post.

I remember when I assumed Anders Behring Breivik was a psychopath and everyone disagreed with me, and a few days later I found an article by an experienced criminal psychologist stating that he was obviously a psychopath. Trust me, this is as obvious as it gets.

I know more proof is required, but just because there's a lack of proof doesn't mean it's not obvious. For example, I can assume that black holes exist, even though, (insofar as I recall) there isn't any direct evidence for their existence. I can assume that there isn't a Pikachu on the moon despite the fact that there isn't any direct evidence for it.



> It isn't murder if its done to save someone, or to protect them. I don't know what to say about the country thing, so...



And it isn't murder if it's done "in the heat of passion". Look at the above posts.



> Not all murder is the same, but you think because I or another person on the internet, doesn't "know" the victim when they say "kill him!", "he deserves to die" etc etc that "we're just as bad as the MURDERER." but you apply a double-standard to your argument by saying its not barbaric or evil to kill him by your own hands and that when done, you aren't like the murderer even if you killed that said person.



Since when did I say it wasn't barbaric? I admitted that I'm human and I'm flawed.



> I do realize that. But this murderer deserves to be served fully and given more than 14 years for this barbaric murder, and I also know the law screws up terribly when it comes to putting murderers away *coughcaseycough* sometimes.



Then why support the death penalty?

Anyway, I agree that this is a bit too lenient on him, especially considering the US system (his sentence can't be prolonged, if I recall correctly).



> Do I understand what? That different levels of murders etc are punished differently? Yes, I knew this and I never once hinted that I didn't. I'm not saying there isn't, I'm saying this kid deserved full punishment for his barbaric murder of his innocent ex-girlfriend, not that murders can be punished differently.
> 
> IF he is crazy, he will be punished as such. But nothing says he is, so he deserves to be punished fully.



Hmm? I thought you asked me about the prison system in Europe that emphasizes rehabilitation. I copy pasted a bunch of quotes about that.

Nothing to do with this guy.



> What makes your bloodthirsty attitude different than the people on the internet who feel for the victim and call for the scumbag's death?



Because my daughter would be someone I knew and loved, and not a complete stranger off an article on the Internet. I would have an evolutionary reason to be upset.



> You obviously feel he deserves to die either way, but yet people are only barbaric if they want the justice system to kill the murderer if they don't know the victim? I'm sorry, but that's absurd. :/



I never said that he deserves to die.

I never said I wasn't barbaric at times. I said I try to be better than others.



> Yea, where were those chances to the victims of those murderers?







> No, that's why I said "or unpopular" in parenthesis. Most teenagers are manipulative. I also said not all are intelligent, but simply because someone is intelligent doesn't mean they are insane. That's idiotic to say. And yes, most teenagers are devious and calculating. Ever been the fat kid? The nerdy kid (Nerds are intelligent! Are they mentally insane?)? The "ugly" girl/boy that was picked on? That the popular ones calculated ways to mess with them? Were being devious to them? Were manipulative towards the unpopular kids (example, getting them to do their papers etc etc)?
> 
> I'm not being ridiculous. Teenagers are like that -- sorry. *But to assume someone is mentally insane because they like horror movies? Because they are popular and intelligent? Because they manipulate people, are are devious? *No, no...that is ridiculous. Trying tell that to a professional and see what he/she says to you.



But thinking like this is silly. You're considering each trait individually - it's that he has a combination of all of these traits that makes it likely for him to be a psychopath. It's that he's popular and intelligent on the outside, and manipulative and devious in the inside that makes him a very likely candidate to be a psychopath. You can't just say "well, nerds are smart, so this guy can't be a psycho!!!!"

As I said, one factor isn't the reason why I think so - it's a combination of multiple ones.

Look at the bolded part. You listed several common factors for psychopaths.

Try telling that to a professional? Ha ha, okay. Just look on Wikipedia.

*    Glibness/superficial charm*
    Grandiose sense of self-worth
*    Pathological lying*
*    Cunning/manipulative*
*    Lack of remorse or guilt
    Emotionally shallow
    Callous/lack of empathy*
    Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

From this tiny article, I can determine that he has 6/8 traits of a psychopath. Just from this tiny article. Amazing, right?



> Lots of people collect weapons; guns, swords, daggers, bullets, spears. Its a hobby.



How many times do I have to say that it's a combination of these factors, not one factor that makes it seem like a textbook psychopath?



> Yes I can and I did. You claim us to be basic barbaric trash simply because we don't know the victim for wanting him dead. But its oh so good for YOU to murder someone ONLY if you know the victim (e.i mother/father/sister/brother).



Yes, basically. At least I have the decency to be bloodthirsty when it's someone I love, and not when it's some fucking girl from an article on the Internet.



> Well then...it is a good thing the law doesn't run on assumptions and personal feelings. It is a good thing it runs on logic, tests, evidence and more. :/



I know this. I'm not saying I would immediately judge him a psychopath without consulting with psychiatrists.


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## Meruem (Sep 4, 2011)

He should be behind bars for the rest of his life but I don't believe in the death penalty.


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## Soul (Sep 5, 2011)

This bastard is sick.


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## Kage (Sep 5, 2011)

she sounded like she was fairly normal. what the fuck did she see in this whack job?


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## ensoriki (Sep 5, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> A psychopath is considerably _less_ dangerous than a sociopath due to how they act. A psychopath is easily treated and warning signs are VERY clear. Sociopaths though? They are extremely difficult to spot, act normal on the surface, and can kill people at the drop of the hat, for minor or inane reasons due to their lack of empathy.



You can't cure psychopathy.
It's chemical and embedded into the brain, until you can change the chemical imbalances in ones skull, you don't cure psychopathy.

So says my security training.


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## Nate Near (Sep 5, 2011)

Throw gas on him, then burn him alive, slice his limbs off, throw him in acid, and then laugh.After that, take a dump on his grave.


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## Narsha (Sep 5, 2011)

I so am sorry for the girl and her family.

The guy is crazy and cruel. I can't believe he killed his ex for a breakfast. 

Rest in peace Rebecca.


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## Borel (Sep 5, 2011)

Nate Near said:


> Throw gas on him, then burn him alive, slice his limbs off, throw him in acid, and then laugh.After that, take a dump on his grave.


No thanks, I'm not a...





Inu said:


> Sick fuck.


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## Han Solo (Sep 5, 2011)

He probably needs to be in a mental institution than prison. He really does sound like he has a legitimate claim to insanity.


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## Scizor (Sep 5, 2011)

terrible 

Also, @using facebook to feign an alibi


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## Seph (Sep 5, 2011)

Nate Near said:


> Throw gas on him, then burn him alive, slice his limbs off, throw him in acid, and then laugh.After that, take a dump on his grave.



You're worse than he is.


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## Gunners (Sep 5, 2011)

Han Solo said:


> He probably needs to be in a mental institution than prison. He really does sound like he has a legitimate claim to insanity.



Even if he is insane he should and would be locked behind bars. It isn't as simple as saying ''Oooh I'm insane, throw me in a mental home''. Generally speaking his insanity has to prevent him from understanding the nature of his actions or being able to control himself. 

Neither can be said for him.


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## dummy plug (Sep 5, 2011)

he just asked his friend what he'd do if he killed his gf just so he has a reason to kill her, it doesnt matter what the reason was...what a sick bastard


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## HighLevelPlayer (Sep 5, 2011)

She bought new clothes and dressed up, just to meet _him_?




Kittan said:


> So...did he get his breakfast?


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## ensoriki (Sep 5, 2011)

Lame ass justice system won't even allow this kid to even get one spanking but he can be put to death.
Somehow a spanking which can last for a day at mos is worse then death which is permanent.

I'd love to see a grown ass kid get put over the judges lap, beat and then thrown in jail.


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## Seph (Sep 5, 2011)

ensoriki said:


> Lame ass justice system won't even allow this kid to even get one spanking but he can be put to death.
> Somehow a spanking which can last for a day at mos is worse then death which is permanent.
> 
> I'd love to see a grown ass kid get put over the judges lap, beat and then thrown in jail.



You want this kid to get tortured?


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## -SprooseM- (Sep 5, 2011)

The shit people will do for a full english


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## Zhariel (Sep 5, 2011)

Lock him in confinement for the rest of his life. Or kill him, whatever is less expensive to tax payers.


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## Santeira (Sep 5, 2011)

He doesn't seem like he's suffering from mental problem, he seems like he is aware of what he is doing, knows it is wrong but does it nonetheless. 

If someone who is 16 is considered "knowing of right and wrong" and is considered legal for sexual relationship, I don't see why he shouldn't get what an adult would get for committing the same thing.

I'm all for life-time imprisonment or death penalty for this guy.


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## Seph (Sep 5, 2011)

> he seems like he is aware of what he is doing, knows it is wrong but does it nonetheless.



But that's exactly how mentally ill people feel.


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## CrazyMoronX (Sep 6, 2011)

"I bet you bacon and eggs you won't kill your girlfriend." 


"I'm going to fuck her." 


"I'm going to get fat off these bacon and eggs. Sucker."


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## Larry Uchiha (Sep 6, 2011)

This *IS *a real life freak! real life is better(/worse) than fiction


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## Akatsuki4Life (Sep 6, 2011)

14 years? Justice was served my ass!  He'll be out killing again on a "dare" in no time..


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## Dr. Obvious (Sep 7, 2011)

"When one person dies, it's a tragedy, but when a million people die, it's a statistic."

Should we really be so fixated on the horror and tragedy of this death? Tons of people die every day, regardless of how. Treat the topic like taking a shit - it happens every day, and it doesn't surprise anyone.


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## HighLevelPlayer (Sep 8, 2011)

Dr. Obvious said:


> "When one person dies, it's a tragedy, but when a million people die, it's a statistic."
> 
> Should we really be so fixated on the horror and tragedy of this death? Tons of people die every day, regardless of how. Treat the topic like taking a shit - it happens every day, and it doesn't surprise anyone.



This post is made of truth.


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## OS (Sep 8, 2011)

What dare? Seems like he was gonna do it anyway.


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## Doge (Sep 11, 2011)

Itαchi said:


> killing scum, makes you scum too,though.




So I guess we should let murderers get free food, medical care, and a fair trial unlike their victims who did not experience that .

There must be consequences, or else "being named scum" will be meaningless.


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## ensoriki (Sep 11, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> I doubt you literally meant spanking. This is why I ignore you.



I quite literally meant spanking.
Or what the fuck else do you think a spanking means.
Waterboarding


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## Xyfar (Sep 11, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> But that's exactly how mentally ill people feel.



Excuse me. But, you live in your own mind where you compare humans to dogs. You're a care-free, immature hippie that thinks everything will work out when people are "treated."  Just because they deem someone rehabilitated doesn't mean magical ponies shoot out their asses. Criminals are smarter than you think, especially those with sociopathic tendencies. With all your second chances and third chances, you'd likely get more people killed.

Reality says hi.


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## tinhamodic (Sep 11, 2011)

The stupid idiot because of his actions destroyed not only his family but his victim's as well. The death penalty would be too convenient for him.


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## Solid Snake (Sep 11, 2011)

> He was described as "popular and intelligent"





> left Rebecca face down in the pouring rain
> returned to the wood with a friend to show him the body
> tried to blame the friend for the killing.



Intelligent he ain't. Popular? In jail, maybe.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 11, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> But that's exactly how mentally ill people feel.


No, it isn't. You seriously distance yourself from victims, claim that monsters like this guy are just 'mentally ill' and deserve life? That all serial killers can be rehabilitated?


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## Bender (Sep 11, 2011)

Psychotic friend.


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## AlphabetSoup (Sep 11, 2011)

Too much derp in the world


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## Grep (Sep 12, 2011)

I could see for a klondike bar but...


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## Tiger (Sep 12, 2011)

ITT: Hearts bleed for psychopaths.



Just put him down already. For the cost of a single bullet, the world could be rid of another tiny piece of cancer. And no, I'm not kidding or trying to be sensational. Your justice system is a joke.


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## Soul (Sep 12, 2011)

Black Titan said:


> Psychotic friend.


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## Psycho (Sep 12, 2011)

Sephiran said:


> You people sicken me as much as this murderer does.



i thought humanity was a characteristic inherent of humans


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## Noitora (Sep 12, 2011)

Fuck that. If that was my daughter I'd make sure the little cunt ended up dead.


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## dbzfreak2 (Sep 12, 2011)

Mainly all that comes to mind from this is "Dear god that is messed up."

I think someone needs to die from that. That is just horrible


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## Perseverance (Sep 12, 2011)

I support execution


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## Jαmes (Sep 12, 2011)

id like to have his limbs cut off.


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## Borel (Sep 12, 2011)

I'd like to have his fingers and toes cut off. Then his face submerged in concentrated acid. Then his tongue ripped off. And then he should be flayed. Because all of this serves some abstract concept and will help achieve balance in the universe. It isn't at all about me giving in to barbaric bloodlust and hate and descending to his level.


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Sep 12, 2011)

Borel said:


> I'd like to have his fingers and toes cut off. Then his face submerged in concentrated acid. Then his tongue ripped off. And then he should be flayed. Because all of this serves some abstract concept and will help achieve balance in the universe. It isn't at all about me giving in to barbaric bloodlust and hate and descending to his level.



I haven't been paying too much attention to this thread until now, but has anyone even said those things or are you over exaggerating?


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## Tiger (Sep 12, 2011)

Borel said:


> I'd like to have his fingers and toes cut off. Then his face submerged in concentrated acid. Then his tongue ripped off. And then he should be flayed. Because all of this serves some abstract concept and will help achieve balance in the universe. It isn't at all about me giving in to barbaric bloodlust and hate and descending to his level.


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## Borel (Sep 12, 2011)

Colonel Awesome said:


> I haven't been paying too much attention to this thread until now, but has anyone even said those things or are you over exaggerating?


I think (and hope) I'm exaggarating.


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## Pilaf (Sep 12, 2011)

I will feed him to my pigs.


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## ZeroBeatXIII (Sep 12, 2011)

Santo said:


> Pragmatically, yeah. But it's only because the retarded number of appeals the person gets.
> 
> I'm all for being granted appeals and whatnot but I mean... not to THAT extent. It shouldn't cost more to kill a murderer than to keep him imprisoned for life. That's just nuts.



I think Lord Denning said it best:
"Its better a thousand guilty go free, than one innocent be sentanced"
Always should be beyond a shadow of a doubt


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## Toroxus (Sep 12, 2011)

ZeroBeatXIII said:


> I think Lord Denning said it best:
> "Its better a thousand guilty go free, than one innocent be sentanced"
> Always should be beyond a shadow of a doubt



A shadow of a doubt is an impossible standard because it requires no evidence. "Did you kill your wife in front of all the cameras and the police?"
"No, aliens impersonated me."
"That's an unreasonable doubt, thus you are not guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt."


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## gtw1983 (Sep 12, 2011)

He's in luck.
Now not only will he get one free meal,but free meals and room and board for the rest of his life. 


Here's to hoping the inmates give him a taste of the cock meat sandwich  special often


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