# PS4 and NEW XBOX @ E3



## Raging Bird (Jan 6, 2012)

SOUNDS LEGIT.


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## James Bond (Jan 6, 2012)

Wonder what the prices will be, wouldnt be surprised if it was like 400 quid for just the console.


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## Raging Bird (Jan 6, 2012)

Can't wait for $60 DLC.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

Prediction: PS4 will require you to purchase an external memory card that is 2-4x retail price.

XBOX will have a $75 monthly fee to use the Internet.


Both will be over $1,000.00.


Games will be $80.00.


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## Velocity (Jan 6, 2012)

It's not actually that likely. Sony want the PS3 to last another four years and, given the amount of money they're losing on the Vita, I'd be really surprised if they'd reveal another new console in a few months. The next Xbox, however, is quite likely to be shown - we already know it'll have Kinect 2 and whatnot, after all, and they're not going to want Nintendo to have too much of a head start.


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## Raging Bird (Jan 6, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Prediction: PS4 will require you to purchase an external memory card that is 2-4x retail price.
> 
> XBOX will have a $75 monthly fee to use the Internet.
> 
> ...



Fuck this planet.


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## Sephiroth (Jan 6, 2012)

I don't have the cash to buy a $1000 dollar console, so I hope not.


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## martryn (Jan 6, 2012)

Current gen consoles still haven't reached their full potential.  Far from it.  The Kinect is a good example of the concept.  The programming hasn't caught up with the hardware yet.  Having a Kinect 2 would be retarded until they can make a game that can fully utilize what the Kinect can do.


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## Raging Bird (Jan 6, 2012)

martryn said:


> Current gen consoles still haven't reached their full potential.  Far from it.  The Kinect is a good example of the concept.  The programming hasn't caught up with the hardware yet.  Having a Kinect 2 would be retarded until they can make a game that can fully utilize what the Kinect can do.






WUT?


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## Fraust (Jan 6, 2012)

No thanks. 

But if they must. Give me the same exact Xbox controller. I'll have the bread for it by the time it releases.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

XBOX 720 will have a giant tablet as a controller.



I remember saying that a couple years ago and it seemed ludicrous. Then the Wii U was announced.


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## God Movement (Jan 6, 2012)

Yes please.


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## Sephiroth (Jan 6, 2012)

Controllers are getting worse, I never would of thought I would have a flat screen tv for a controller.


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## Butcher (Jan 6, 2012)

CMX is pretty damn correct.

Games are already have outrageous prices. 

Should go back to $40.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

We should consider ourselves lucky.


In the future they'll charge us extra for the controllers (remember when they actually came with two controllers?). The flatscreen television pad controllers will be like $500.00 extra--$750 for the deluxe version with two analog sticks.


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## cnorwood (Jan 6, 2012)

Wernt nes and snes games like 60-70 dollars, but anyway sony would have to be really retarded to release a 600+ console again


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## Fraust (Jan 6, 2012)

I believe the next Xbox (codenamed Next) will be either same price as 360 when first release or in that general range, which isn't too bad. Sony doesn't know how to much to charge because they don't know how much to spend manufacturing them.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 6, 2012)

cnorwood said:


> Wernt nes and snes games like 60-70 dollars, but anyway *sony would have to be really retarded* to release a 600+ console again



We already know that.

*Spoiler*: __ 



For its complete North American release, the NES was released in four different bundles: the Deluxe Set, the Control Deck, the Action Set and the Power Set. The Deluxe Set, retailing at US$199.99, included R.O.B., a light zapper, two controllers, and two game paks: Gyromite, and Duck Hunt. The Control Deck was the barebone set, retailing at US$89.99 with no game, and US$99.99 bundled with "Super Mario Bros." The control deck consisted of the console itself, and two game controllers. The Action Set, however, was released in 1988 was sold for US$149.99 and came with the console, two game controllers, a NES Zapper, and a dual game pak containing Super Mario Bros. and Duck Hunt.[2][25] In 1989, the Power Set was released, which came with the console, two game controlers, a NES Zapper, a Power Pad, and triple game pack containing Super Mario Bros, Duck Hunt, and World Class Track Meet. In 1990, a Sports Set bundle was released, including the console, an NES Satellite infrared wireless multitap adapter, four game controllers, and a Super Spike V'Ball/Nintendo World Cup game pak.[26] Two more bundle packages were released using the original model NES console. The Challenge Set included the console, two controllers, and a Super Mario Bros. 3 game pak released in 1990. The Basic Set, first released in 1987, included only the console and two controllers with no pack-in cartridge.[26] Instead, it contained a book called the Official Nintendo Player's Guide, which contained detailed information for every NES game made up to that point. Finally, the console was redesigned for both the North American and Japanese markets as part of the final Nintendo-released bundle package. The package included the new style NES-101 console and one redesigned "dogbone" game controller. Released in October 1993 in North America, this final bundle retailed for US$49.99 and remained in production until the discontinuation of the NES in 1995.[2]


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

cnorwood said:


> Wernt nes and snes games like 60-70 dollars, but anyway sony would have to be really retarded to release a 600+ console again





Seems they were average $35.00-$40.00.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 6, 2012)

They gave how much it weighed back then?


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

Damn right.

In the 80s we were weight-conscious.


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## dream (Jan 6, 2012)

Heh, I knew that something like this would happen the moment that Nintendo revealed the Wii U.  I don't really expect much in terms of hardware from Sony and at best we might see a few tech demos.  Microsoft on the other hand will probably do the same thing as Nintendo during last year's E3.

This should end up being the best E3 in a while.


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## PoinT_BlanK (Jan 6, 2012)

Though i don't want my ps4 yet.

This thread is relevant to my interests.



CrazyMoronX said:


> Prediction: PS4 will require you to purchase an external memory card that is 2-4x retail price.
> 
> XBOX will have a $75 monthly fee to use the Internet.
> 
> ...



Sadly, you will be proven right on at least two of those.


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## The Boss (Jan 6, 2012)

I hope it wont come out till 2014...


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## PoinT_BlanK (Jan 6, 2012)

BTW..if the next PS and Xbox do make some sort of an appearance at e3..the interwebz will be full of wars about consoles that aren't even out. I'm gonna cancel my broadband subscription and go into hibernation.

The Mayans might actually be proven right..


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## dream (Jan 6, 2012)

The Boss said:


> I hope it wont come out till 2014...



An early 2014 release for PS4 seems likely while the next Xbox should have a mid/late 2013 release in my opinion. 



PoinT_BlanK said:


> BTW..if the next PS and Xbox do make some sort of an appearance at e3..the interwebz will be full of wars about consoles that aren't even out. I'm gonna cancel my broadband subscription and go into hibernation.
> 
> The Mayans might actually be proven right..



I can't wait till E3 comes, it's going to be quite a bit of fun.


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## Nep Nep (Jan 6, 2012)

FFS D: I couldn't even afford the 600 dollar PS3 ;-; if this keeps up only millionaires are gonna be able to have video gaming as a hobby. This price needs to peak here imo e-o but that's not gonna happen.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

If the XBOX 5000 lowers the price of the XBOX 360 I might buy one.


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## Malvingt2 (Jan 6, 2012)

E3 is going to be fun, Nintendo has to go all out...


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## Gnome (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm with Eternal on this, I can't wait for E3.

As for consoles reaching their potential, they have, especially graphically (graphic limits are more than just more "pretty looking" believe it or not). Right now we're at the point where "everything is awesome, so as a result nothing is awesome" because we don't have anyone pushing new frontiers and standing out.


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## Kaitou (Jan 6, 2012)

Raging Bird said:


> Can't wait for $60 DLC.



Totally.  
Some DLC are already 20 IIRC.

But this E3 will be good though, so I can't wait.


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## HiroshiSenju (Jan 6, 2012)

We all know how it's going to turn out. Nobody's done with the Ps3 and XBox360 yet, but they will release new, over-priced consoles again. People will camp out the night before the consoles are released and some people will die, get shot, ect. while the successful buyers sell their consoles for thousands of dollars on eBay and Amazon.

Meanwhile, the rest of us wait until 2 years or so later when we can actually afford to buy the over-priced consoles and their over-priced games.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 6, 2012)

obviously we're going to have more games in 3D


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## Raging Bird (Jan 6, 2012)

Im not a fan of the 3D gimmick.


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## Gnome (Jan 6, 2012)

It will never be a required to use feature, but I just don't want them to use it as an excuse to jack up the consoles prices.


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## dream (Jan 6, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> E3 is going to be fun, Nintendo has to go all out...



As long as Nintendo has playable demos it should handily steal the show since Microsoft and Sony will have tech demos at the best.  



Gnome said:


> Fuck 3D     .



3D gaming is horrible.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

Like I said before, they need to make a 3DS without 3D. It's useless.


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## Gnome (Jan 6, 2012)

Just leave the 3D off.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 6, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Like I said before, they need to make a 3DS without 3D. It's useless.



Meh that's why they have an off feature.


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## Gnome (Jan 6, 2012)

Any guess to what the new Xbox will be called? Xbox 3? 720? Xbawks?


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 6, 2012)

Gnome said:


> Any guess to what the new Xbox will be called? Xbox 3? 720? Xbawks?



Steve Jobs 2.0.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

XBOX 3D.


Requires a new 3D telvision to play--but only the ones Microsoft sells you.


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## Gnome (Jan 6, 2012)

Microsoft making a Steve Jobs robot. First Halo then Steve Jobs,


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## dream (Jan 6, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> XBOX 3D.



I hate how this is a pretty good possibility.


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## Malvingt2 (Jan 6, 2012)

I keep 3D on for MK7 "Single player" and Oot 3D. I hear that M3DL uses 3D almost perfectly.. But Yeah I am not a fan of 3D in general.. Movies or games..


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

Everyone likes to copy Nintendo, right?


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## Malvingt2 (Jan 6, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Everyone likes to copy Nintendo, right?


 yeah... I can see both PS4/720 using a tablet like controller...


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## Gnome (Jan 6, 2012)

They should bring the Power Glove back, It's so bad!


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## PoinT_BlanK (Jan 6, 2012)

I hate that tablet like controller.


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## Akira Kurusu (Jan 6, 2012)

Xbox 720: Now at the price of $699 with extra 3d features and crappy launch titles.


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## Krory (Jan 6, 2012)

Oh, rumor train...


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

Gnome said:


> They should bring the Power Glove back, It's so bad!



Only if it implements the following:

Touchscreen interface somewhere on the glove--preferably one with hip haptic feedback and a 3D screen.

Doubles as a stylus for the 3DS.

Has optional buy-ups in the form of extra finger pads and an analog stick.





*Motion functionality not important.


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## dream (Jan 6, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Everyone likes to copy Nintendo, right?



Everyone loves to copy stuff that makes money.


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## Malvingt2 (Jan 6, 2012)

Eternal Goob, when I said Nintendo has to go all out, I mean in general. They have to show their Online system and plans"price for the console and games". They have to show killer first and third party IP's for launch.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> Eternal Goob, when I said Nintendo has to go out, I mean in general. They have to show their Online system and plans"price for the console and games". T*hey have to show killer first and third party IP's for launch*.





Good one.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm callin Bullshit right now. Sony just launched the Vita and not only that, we've had no previous indications that they've even been thinking about revealing.

Atleast with Microsoft we've had plenty of indications. With Sony, rushing their announcement out there just to get to the market with Microsoft would be a bad move. Especially if they aren't even ready


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## dream (Jan 6, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> Eternal Goob, when I said Nintendo has to go all out, I mean in general. They have to show their Online system and plans"price for the console and games". They have to show killer first and third party IP's for launch.



Oh, unless Nintendo goes brain dead they should release that information at E3.

We should have some nice third party ports...maybe one or two new games.


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## Wonder Mike (Jan 6, 2012)

Xbox Z. You first heard it here.


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## PoinT_BlanK (Jan 6, 2012)

We most likely just gonna get a "we're working on it(next console)" at e3.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

You'd think Sony would have more pressing issues.

You would think that.


But this is Sony, bro. They are like in Kamikaze mode. They are trying to kill themselves by any means necessary. They'll probably make the PS4 and release it too quickly. 

And it'll be defective, sloppy, overpriced, and have no games. Then they'll announce the PS5.


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## dream (Jan 6, 2012)

> I'm callin Bullshit right now. Sony just launched the Vita and not only that, we've had no previous indications that they've even been thinking about revealing.



We had no indication that Nintendo was even thinking of revealing a new system at E3 until April, don't see why this is any different.  And Sony won't be launching the system this year, a late 2013 is the earliest I can see a release for the PS4.  That's long enough after the PSVita in my opinion.


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## Malvingt2 (Jan 6, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> We had no indication that Nintendo was even thinking of revealing a new system at E3 until April, don't see why this is any different.  And Sony won't be launching the system this year, a late 2013 is the earliest I can see a release for the PS4.  That's long enough after the PSVita in my opinion.


 remember those days? it was crazy the amount of info that got leaked. "Ubisoft" all my money that they leaked it..


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 6, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> We had no indication that Nintendo was even thinking of revealing a new system at E3 until April, don't see why this is any different.  And Sony won't be launching the system this year, a late 2013 is the earliest I can see a release for the PS4.  That's long enough after the PSVita in my opinion.



Cafe was actually first mentioned 2 years ago, it was not until early last year that we got concrete information and reveal date information


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## dream (Jan 6, 2012)

PoinT_BlanK said:


> We most likely just gonna get a "we're working on it(next console)" at e3.



Probably, we might get some concept gameplay videos.  



Malvingt2 said:


> remember those days? it was crazy the amount of info that got leaked. "Ubisoft" all my money that they leaked it..



Heh, however it was they certainly did cause a media storm. 



Inuhanyou said:


> Cafe was actually first mentioned 2 years ago, it was not until early last year that we got concrete information and reveal date information



Really?  Had no recollection of that.  Still, I think that an E3 reveal is likely for Sony.


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## Sotei (Jan 6, 2012)

It's like some of you guys only play games and don't follow the industry in any way possible. A reveal doesn't mean they're going to release it this year.

It only makes sense that both MS and SONY reveal their future consoles at this years e3. It would be stupid to allow Nintendo to take the show by storm with WU + playable games and have the media go and report only on Nintendo's console. MS and SONY need to at least take some of that attention away and get people talking about the PS4 and NextBox. 

All this price talk is ridiculous too. None of the next consoles will cost anywhere near $1000. If we take a look at SONY and how they built the Vita, they aren't looking to replicate what happened with the PS3. SONY isn't looking to take major losses like generations past, they can't, they no longer lead the industry.

Nintendo is Nintendo, they'll keep doing what they do, they learned from the 3DS and they won't over price their console. However, it will be their most expensive console they've ever released, by their own standards. I'll even predict that even though Nintendo is going HD, they'll keep their games priced at $49.99, technology has already caught up to HD graphics, there's no reason to charge $60 for games. $60 was the excuse MS used 8 years ago, when they claimed HD graphics cost more to develop, so game prices needed to reflect that. 

MS, will price competitively but I can see them charging more for Live. They're adding DVR functionality to the NextBox and I can see them trying to work out deals with Cable and Satellite providers to allow the NextBox, to work like a set top box, kind'a like Apple TV and TiVo. MS has said it from the beginning, they want to take over the living room, the Xbox was always meant to be a trojan horse, this new system will reflect everything they've wanted to do. SONY will try to provide a similar service with the PS4.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 6, 2012)

but the PS3 was released close to $1000 and it would've stayed that high if it wasn't for their competitors. sony has a way of shafting prices on to people. people didn't find the vita pricing bad until they found out homw much the memory cards were.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

Maybe Sony will design a cost-effective unit. 


I mean, with hardware prices as they are now they should be able to. If they had a dick.


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## dream (Jan 6, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Maybe Sony will design a cost-effective unit.
> 
> 
> I mean, with hardware prices as they are now they should be able to. If they had a dick.



I wouldn't bet on it.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 6, 2012)

They are going to coalesce around Cell Architecture, more advanced cell drivers will probably be added on top of the ones already designed in PS3. That means they are going to put in a relatively weak CPU computer driver and supplement it with their custom built solution.  That also means unfortunately, that the problems found in PS3(atleast for a majority of non Sony developers) will still be there next generation. But the PS4 can still be a success. I would have no issues, if Sony can find a way to fix the blu ray's slow reading speeds. Having to mandatory install every game is a pain.


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## Gunners (Jan 6, 2012)

Aji Tae said:


> It's not actually that likely. *Sony want the PS3 to last another four years and*, given the amount of money they're losing on the Vita, I'd be really surprised if they'd reveal another new console in a few months. The next Xbox, however, is quite likely to be shown - we already know it'll have Kinect 2 and whatnot, after all, and they're not going to want Nintendo to have too much of a head start.



Which makes an announcement likely. It's not like the console will be released the day after announcement. It's not like the PS3 will die the moment the PS4 is released either.


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## HiroshiSenju (Jan 6, 2012)

When will Sony learn that gamers aren't rich and we have standards for our prices 

Hopefully this PS4 won't pull a 600 dollar price like the PS3 did.


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## Mako (Jan 6, 2012)

No thanks, I still love my PS2.


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## dream (Jan 6, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> They are going to coalesce around Cell Architecture, more advanced cell drivers will probably be added on top of the ones already designed in PS3. That means they are going to put in a relatively weak CPU computer driver and supplement it with their custom built solution.  That also means unfortunately, that the problems found in PS3(atleast for a majority of non Sony developers) will still be there next generation. But the PS4 can still be a success. I would have no issues, if Sony can find a way to fix the blu ray's slow reading speeds. Having to mandatory install every game is a pain.



Pretty sure that PS3 developers will have gotten around to find solutions caused by the problems of Cell.  Eh, I never really had a problem with install games on my PS3.  What I'm really curious about is what GPU it will be based off of, my money is on the GeForce GTX 580 if Sony goes with Nvidia again.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 6, 2012)

I've only run into a couple of games that forced me to install.

And Resonance of Fate runs flawlessly without load times straight from the disc.


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## ShadowReij (Jan 6, 2012)

I could understand the wii, but while it isn't shocking it just seems foolish for both companies to be focusing on new machines when they're current ones have just hit their sweet spots. But I guess their refusing to have Nintendo pull the rug from under them twice. Especially when they're new machine will probably have (expecting) playable tech demos. As for pricing, nintendo learned quickly with the 3DS not to overprice their games will probably stay within 50 since by now the tech should be much cheaper, Sony could not be that stupid to go anywhere near 600 again, Microsoft, I agree with the person who said the price of live will probably go up.


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## dream (Jan 6, 2012)

ShadowReij, they have to start focusing on new machines eventually and now is a perfectly good time since their current consoles are having success.


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## ShadowReij (Jan 6, 2012)

Oh I know eventually they would've but I don't think either machine has been completely tapped especially the ps3 but hey if at this point both have broke at least even on their machines why not, let's just hope they don't go crazy again.


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## dream (Jan 6, 2012)

When it comes to how much "power" they can pull out of the consoles then it's pretty clear that they've just about squeezed out all the power that they can from the systems.  The only things they can do from here is just make good games but with the Wii U coming out and potentially being a significantly more powerful system Microsoft and Sony have no real choice but to announce that they are making new systems lest gamers jump ship to a Nintendo that potentially will be targeting hardcore gamers.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 6, 2012)

SCE will be the ones getting the final drops out of the PS3 

If i recall, Sucker Punch apparently only managed to max out 60% of the Cell's overall capability for Infamous 2. And about 30% for Infamous 1


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## ShadowReij (Jan 6, 2012)

I know Goob, it'd be dumb for them not to business wise. Still feel it's too soon for them but whatever.


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## Narcissus (Jan 6, 2012)

Not a big fan of the XBOX, and I _just_ got the PS3. While I'm sure the next installment in Sony's line of gaming consoles will have a lot of neat features, I'll refuse to get it for a good while after it is released, whenever that will be.

Still, it's always nice to see progress being made.


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## dream (Jan 6, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> SCE will be the ones getting the final drops out of the PS3
> 
> If i recall, Sucker Punch apparently only managed to max out 60% of the Cell's overall capability for Infamous 2. And about 30% for Infamous 1



I can believe that.

I wouldn't trust those percentages at all, they probably are just random numbers that developers used.  In any case Uncharted 3 should be using every drop of power the PS3 has or at least close to it.


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## Butcher (Jan 6, 2012)

I got my PS3 a little while ago. Though I won't be getting a PS4/720 when they release since they'll cost a shit load probably.

I'm sure MS and Sony will catch up halfway to Nintendo just like they did with their PS3 and 360 with their exclusives/features.

Then we'll be right back where we are now, except with higher powered systems.


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## Hatifnatten (Jan 7, 2012)

Not happening.


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## Shuntensatsu (Jan 7, 2012)

I will get PS4, probably not at launch but likely sometime within a year of release. Whenever the first can't miss title hits. I doubt it releases before 2014 though.


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## Gnome (Jan 7, 2012)

Microsoft better have something for show, the only thing we know for next year is Halo 4, pretty disappointing.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 7, 2012)

Halo4 is this year


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## Gnome (Jan 7, 2012)

Fuck me, I'm doing that thing where I still think of it as 2011.


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## Shuntensatsu (Jan 7, 2012)

Gnome said:


> Microsoft better have something for show, the only thing we know for next year is Halo 4, pretty disappointing.



Microsoft has been dead to me ever since Playstation got Ninja Gaiden, that was the only exclusive MS had that wasn't trash.  The day PS3 got Ninja Gaiden 2 I sold my 360.


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## Gnome (Jan 7, 2012)

There are 360 games I still like, but to each his own.


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## dream (Jan 7, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Halo4 is this year



I'm pretty interested in how that game will end up, a new start could be fantastic for the series.


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## Id (Jan 7, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Seems they were average $35.00-$40.00.



$35-$40....over 20 years ago. How much is that in todays dollars?


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## Gnome (Jan 7, 2012)

Double the price about, so like $80.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 7, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> I'm pretty interested in how that game will end up, a new start could be fantastic for the series.



 I just hope 343 knows what they're doing


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## dream (Jan 7, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I just hope 343 knows what they're doing



Well, it's comprised of quite a few ex-Bungie members so they hopefully should know how to make a good Halo game.


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## Canute87 (Jan 7, 2012)

Microsoft and Sony might have some issues that might push for another console.

Xbox needs more power while Ps3 needs a better design. If you have two HD consoles out that is easy to port between (i.e Xbox and Wii U) then Sony won't stand a chance.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jan 7, 2012)

could care less, i will probably go with the better launch titles or future promised library or something.. 

same like with the PS3, i picked it cuz of DMC4,GOW3,etc..


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## Bonney (Jan 7, 2012)

I'm not sure that I'd be willing to fork over roughly 1000 Aussie dollars for a new system right away(that was the ps3 launch price here) but I'd pick up a new ps4 a year or two after initial release, as long as it has a good line-up.


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## Hatifnatten (Jan 7, 2012)

Canute87 said:


> Microsoft and Sony might have some issues that might push for another console.
> 
> Xbox needs more power while Ps3 needs a better design. If you have two HD consoles out that is easy to port between (i.e Xbox and Wii U) then Sony won't stand a chance.


lol, what does porting has to do with anything? Port any shit all day long, as long as Sony has better exclusives and Bluray everything else is trash.

The second all other consoles will get Bluray, they officially lost.


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## dilbot (Jan 7, 2012)

Just if....what if...

"oh so sorry, versus 13 and last guardian on ps4! Prease buy nao~"

trololololol


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## Fraust (Jan 7, 2012)

Then PS4 launch sales will be tremendous. And Sony wins. 

or fail. it's 50/50.


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## PoinT_BlanK (Jan 7, 2012)

I'm on board for the PS4, just not straight after launch..


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## Butcher (Jan 7, 2012)

Shuntensatsu said:


> Microsoft has been dead to me ever since Playstation got Ninja Gaiden, that was the only exclusive MS had that wasn't trash.  The day PS3 got Ninja Gaiden 2 I sold my 360.


Ninja Gaiden  and Mass Effect Ports ftw .


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## Gabe (Jan 7, 2012)

They will probably be super expensive. Also i think its to soon


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## dream (Jan 7, 2012)

Gabe said:


> They will probably be super expensive. Also i think its to soon



PS1: 1994
PS2: 2000
PS3: 2006
PS4: Anywhere from 2012 to 2014

Seem like we'll be waiting longer for the PS4 than we waited for the PS3.

Xbox: 2001
Xbox 360:  2005
Xbox ???:  Anywhere from 2012 to 2014

We're already waiting longer for a new Xbox than we waited for the Xbox 360.

Don't see how it's too soon.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 7, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> PS1: 1994
> PS2: 2000
> PS3: 2006
> PS4: Anywhere from 2012 to 2014
> ...


Now do nintendo's


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## dream (Jan 7, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Now do nintendo's



NES: 1983
SNES: 1990
N64: 1996
Gamecube: 2001
Wii: 2006
Wii U: 2012

It has ranged from five to six years between consoles, the Wii U having a 2012 release fits.


----------



## Skywalker (Jan 7, 2012)

I won't be buying one anytime soon.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 7, 2012)

I'm a sucker for new hardware and will likely buy one right away, it will be inferior and buggy and cost me more.


----------



## Sotei (Jan 7, 2012)

So, rumor has it that the next Xbox is gonna have a tablet like controller... ... :rofl I wonder where they got that idea from?


----------



## Butcher (Jan 7, 2012)

Gnome said:


> I'm a sucker for new hardware and will likely buy one right away, it will be inferior and buggy and cost me more.


If I had the money, I'd wait a year after the new consoles is one year old .

Give them time to fix the bugs and shit. Look what happened to PS3 & 360 when they first released.

Problems everywhere.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 7, 2012)

Sotei said:


> So, rumor has it that the next Xbox is gonna have a tablet like controller... ... :rofl I wonder where they got that idea from?



Apple?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 7, 2012)

Sotei said:


> So, rumor has it that the next Xbox is gonna have a tablet like controller... ... :rofl I wonder where they got that idea from?


 Sony?


----------



## PoinT_BlanK (Jan 7, 2012)

Trollololol tablet controllers. Smh.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jan 7, 2012)

oh my.. sony better keep the dualshock.. they can put in a touch remote control for all i care.. but keep the controllers retro..


----------



## Bungee Gum (Jan 7, 2012)

tablets will suck ass. wtf these retarded game companies are so jelly of apple


----------



## Fraust (Jan 7, 2012)

Every controller is obsolete compared to the 360 Transformer. Dualshock is pretty nice for story games/RPGs, though, but not much better than 360's perfection.

Suck it.


----------



## Dokiz1 (Jan 7, 2012)

I bet PS4 will sell more than new Xbox. The only reason Xbox 360 sold more to begin is because of Halo which was really popular at the time since it was revolutionary, but now? Yes, it's still popular but not as much, most doesn't give a darn about that game anymore. Other than that Xbox doesn't have any games or whatsover except 3rd. And I'm sure some are tired to pay a $60 fees to play online. Seriously, when was the last time M$ has shown something interesting at E3? They're always the least I'm looking forward to.

PS 4 Life 



Fraust said:


> Every controller is obsolete compared to the 360 Transformer. Dualshock is pretty nice for story games/RPGs, though, but not much better than 360's perfection.
> 
> Suck it.



Xbox controllers are the worst you can get for fighting games. Perfection? yeah tell that to yourself.


----------



## PoinT_BlanK (Jan 7, 2012)

Dualshock will forever be a masterpiece.

360's too robust for my hands.


----------



## Fraust (Jan 7, 2012)

Transformer d-pad is better (or so they claim), but I actually haven't used it. :lol

For FPS Xbox wins. For RPGs, it doesn't matter. For Fighting games it loses. For racing games it wins. For platformers it's either a tie or wins slightly because of the second analog for camera. For sports I think Xbox is better.

The shape is simply perfect to me. I also think it is the most popular controller among sites, magazines, and gamers, but that's just me thinking logically.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 7, 2012)

Just don't expect anything like the Samaritan till the 2020's.


Fraust said:


> Transformer d-pad is better (or so they claim), but I actually haven't used it. :lol
> 
> For FPS Xbox wins. For RPGs, it doesn't matter. For Fighting games it loses. For racing games it wins. For platformers it's either a tie or wins slightly because of the second analog for camera. For sports I think Xbox is better.


PC wins FPS and racing games don't matter.
Rpgs can fit anything fine and the snes controller wins in platforming


----------



## PoinT_BlanK (Jan 7, 2012)

Just thought..

If zone of the enders 3 happens on ps4


----------



## Fraust (Jan 7, 2012)

PCs don't count in a controller/console war because then it's almost not fair. Graphics are better, for people that get used to the controls it's unbeatable, etc.

As far as consoles go, Xbox 360 is the best controller ever made.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 7, 2012)

Fraust said:


> *PCs don't count in a controller/console war because then it's almost not fair.* Graphics are better, for people that get used to the controls it's unbeatable, etc.












Nothing will change this status.
Mouse is the best controller


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 7, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Just don't expect anything like the Samaritan till the 2020's.



Samaritian was running on 3 GTX 580 GPUs. Epic has stated however that with proper optimization, it could be run on only one GTX580, not taking into account any supplementary CPU additions which consoles would have as standard.

Also take into account that fixed game consoles are different from actual PC's in that gaming is their number one priority, meaning all of the GPU and CPU resources are spent on running the game. This is why games become more and more refined over a console generation. Because developers are better able to optimize the architecture to suit their needs than a PC.

All of this leads me to believe that something close to Samaritan is not too far out of reach for next gen consoles.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 7, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Samaritian was running on 3 GTX 580s. Epic has stated however that with proper optimization, it could be run on only one GTX580.
> 
> Also take into account that fixed game consoles are different from actual PC's in that gaming is their number one priority, meaning all of the GPU and CPU resources are spent on running the game. *This is why games become more and more refined over a console generation. *Because developers are better able to optimize the architecture to suit their needs than a PC.
> 
> All of this leads me to believe that something close to Samaritan is not too far out of reach.


If they plan to make any kind of impressive game I would think it would be around the 2018-2020 range.
Mainly because they have to wait for next gen to completely come over ontop of development time and atm I don't think next gen could run it because like you said"bolded" and a GTX580 costs quite a bit $460+
I'm more expecting crisis  maxed on pc levels as a start.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 7, 2012)

^ That is not necessary i feel. The difference between last generation, this generation and the next generation is developers introduction to tessellation, advanced shaders and literal deferred rendering techniques that were not possible in previous console cycles. As DICE said during a technical interview only a few months ago; consoles and PC development have both come to a point where they have blurred the line between what they can do. 

On the PS2 Xbox and Gamecube such methods of game design didn't exist, they were created during that cycle, and console developers had to get used to them with the jump in fidelity. For the next generation however, it is merely a super advanced form of what was introduced this generation. Meaning that developers already know what advanced bump mapping is, what HDR is, what actual sub surface scattering is, and they're only taking that to another level.


In addition, considering that DX11 will most likely be on the next generation consoles(atleast Xbox anyway), many of the "next generation" features inside the Samaritan demo, will already be available for developers to wield out of the box(meaning as launch titles).


Even the jump to architecture that could support DX11's most basic rendering techniques could in effect run circles around today's DX9 locked 360.


----------



## DedValve (Jan 7, 2012)

Dokiz1 said:


> I bet PS4 will sell more than new Xbox. The only reason Xbox 360 sold more to begin is because of Halo which was really popular at the time since it was revolutionary, but now? Yes, it's still popular but not as much, most doesn't give a darn about that game anymore. Other than that Xbox doesn't have any games or whatsover except 3rd. And I'm sure some are tired to pay a $60 fees to play online. Seriously, when was the last time M$ has shown something interesting at E3? They're always the least I'm looking forward to.
> 
> PS 4 Life
> 
> ...



This entire post gave me a migraine. To much trolling hurts my brain


----------



## Dokiz1 (Jan 7, 2012)

PS4 > Xcrap whatever.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 7, 2012)

I didn't know Dokiz knew how to lower people's brain cell count just by post


----------



## dream (Jan 7, 2012)

Sotei said:


> So, rumor has it that the next Xbox is gonna have a tablet like controller... ... :rofl I wonder where they got that idea from?



Rumor my ass, it's just Gamespot taking a wild guess.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 7, 2012)

I don't think it will have a tablet controller.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 8, 2012)

If anything, Microsoft will continue to expand its Kinect functionality. Having a tablet would completely ruin their plans for their other device application 

the person who started that up as a rumor in the first place is stupid and has an IQ of 30.4


----------



## dream (Jan 8, 2012)

> If anything, Microsoft will continue to expand its Kinect functionality. Having a tablet would completely ruin their plans for their other device application



I wonder if Kinect will be integrated into the new console.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 8, 2012)

I hope not, unless it doesn't affect the pricing. Even so, if they try to force the Kinect interface on people then I'll cringe.


----------



## dream (Jan 8, 2012)

Yeah, it does seem a bit unlikely since it will just increase the first, still I'm expecting Kinect to be out on launch day.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 8, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> ^ That is not necessary i feel. The difference between last generation, this generation and the next generation is developers introduction to tessellation, advanced shaders and literal deferred rendering techniques that were not possible in previous console cycles. As DICE said during a technical interview only a few months ago; consoles and PC development have both come to a point where they have blurred the line between what they can do.
> 
> On the PS2 Xbox and Gamecube such methods of game design didn't exist, they were created during that cycle, and console developers had to get used to them with the jump in fidelity. For the next generation however, it is merely a super advanced form of what was introduced this generation. Meaning that developers already know what advanced bump mapping is, what HDR is, what actual sub surface scattering is, and they're only taking that to another level.
> 
> ...


Though I'm just basing it on the usual dev. time.
Don't know how this is going to effect the development processes speed. Just don't see it happening anytime soon ya know I would expect it to take 3-5 years for a note worthy title to be made just from dev time and on top of that they actually have to wait till sony and microsoft release(which will be a while), so they know what they are working with.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 8, 2012)

No game should have a development time of 5 years, that's just straight up inadequacy.


----------



## Helix (Jan 8, 2012)

So, will Kinect 2 be like this?


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 8, 2012)

Gnome said:


> No game should have a development time of 5 years, that's just *straight up inadequacy*.


Something about square?
Dues ex:human revolution had 4 years I think.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 8, 2012)

Of actual development time? I really doubt that.


----------



## dream (Jan 8, 2012)

Helix said:


> So, will Kinect 2 be like this?



More like Kinect 9.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 8, 2012)

Announcement comes when something is green lit. Then it goes into pre-production, which takes the most time or at least should. Then it goes into actual development, this should only take about a year, two years at the most.

Edit: I should mention that something being announced is usually when its green lit, but a company is free to announce a game at their discretion.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 8, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Though I'm just basing it on the usual dev. time.
> Don't know how this is going to effect the development processes speed. Just don't see it happening anytime soon ya know I would expect it to take 3-5 years for a note worthy title to be made just from dev time and on top of that they actually have to wait till sony and microsoft release(which will be a while), so they know what they are working with.



That's not exactly the case. 



As you can see there. Just from applying DX11 technologies and no other applications, rendering of an image is substantially easier to do. Meaning that more complex geometry is in our immediate future as a standard with no added effort from today's rendering techniques, even as it becomes more complex on the face.

As developers become easier to access the potential of their tech, it becomes easier to streamline it.

Case in point Square Enix's "crystal tools engine" this generation. It was costly, had a pretty long development cycle, and ate up a lot of SE's resources.  Their next engine is a direct upgrade to the Crystal tools engine, the Luminous engine, which SE says will actually save significant development time as well as cut their dev costs by over 30% when in comparison to today's development costs.



Its the same with Unreal Engine 3 and 4 as well as Cryengine 3.


----------



## Krory (Jan 8, 2012)

>Crystal Dynamics' Crystal engine

They did all their work and it was their engine long before Square got their greasy hands on them.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 8, 2012)

Gnome said:


> Announcement comes when something is green lit. Then it goes into pre-production, which takes the most time or at least should. Then it goes into actual development, this should only take about a year, two years at the most.



Assuming things go smoothly.
Most of the time...ehhh.
A good bit of the project is scrapped sometimes causing it to take longer than it should or causes the project to be canceled meaning resources were wasted when they could have worked on something else.
If the wiki article isn't lying about the date it was announced in 2007 and was likely in development a good bit before then and was released in 2011.
 Then there are the games that are just large altogether and take longer to make on top of the normal complications of development errors and funding problems.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 8, 2012)

5 years is still far too long, I don't care if the game is good, leadership has to be pretty poor if you're having to scrap and redo a bunch of work after going into development.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 8, 2012)

Krory said:


> >Crystal Dynamics' Crystal engine
> 
> They did all their work and it was their engine long before Square got their greasy hands on them.



How did you get "crystal engine" from "crystal tools engine" 

Square has never asked for Crystal dynamics's engine, and Square developed their Crystal tools engine before they even acquired Eidos


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 8, 2012)

Gnome said:


> 5 years is still far too long, I don't care if the game is good, leadership has to be pretty poor if you're having to scrap and redo a bunch of work after going into development.



I think 4 should be the limit unless you are trying something crazy that would take longer even with everything going right.
And yes lack of good leadership is apparently common in the game industry.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 8, 2012)

Maybe if it's Blizzard, but they're a bit excessive with polishing. It does show though.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Jan 8, 2012)

Gnome said:


> No game should have a development time of 5 years, that's just straight up inadequacy.


Yes it should. That's how long it takes to make a polished game. Not a broken shit that will require patches and DLC to fix it, and even then won't do any good.


----------



## dream (Jan 8, 2012)

Hatifnatten said:


> Yes it should. That's how long it takes to make a polished game. Not a broken shit that will require patches and DLC to fix it, and even then won't do any good.



I completely agree.  If Skyrim had been worked on for four years instead of three years then it would have likely been a far more polished game assuming that Bethesda would have beta tested it extensively.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 8, 2012)

Hatifnatten said:


> Yes it should. That's how long it takes to make a polished game. Not a broken shit that will require patches and DLC to fix it, and even then won't do any good.



Long dev time does not make a polished game it can often ruin it.


Eternal Goob said:


> I completely agree.  If Skyrim had been worked on for four years instead of three years then it would have likely been a far more polished game assuming that Bethesda would have beta tested it extensively.



That's more along the lines of games that should hit the 4 year mark it simply needed more time with how large it was.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 8, 2012)

Hatifnatten said:


> Yes it should. That's how long it takes to make a polished game. Not a broken shit that will require patches and DLC to fix it, and even then won't do any good.



From the moment they actual start to *make* the game, 5 years is ridiculous. That's pretty much a full console cycle.


----------



## dream (Jan 8, 2012)

Gnome said:


> From the moment they actual start to *make* the game, 5 years is ridiculous. That's pretty much a full console cycle.



Less games and more polished and bug-free games is something that I could live with.  Of course this is mainly meant for the big-budget triple a games.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 8, 2012)

Gnome said:


> From the moment they actual start to *make* the game, 5 years is ridiculous. That's pretty much a full console cycle.



Don't think anything will top the duke here though 15 years man...
Though versus is getting there.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 8, 2012)

Given that you're probably referring to Bethesda, I can't entirely disagree. They're one of the few companies that make games large enough to possibly warrant 4+ years. The fact that they have a formula to all their games though, you would think they'd have learned by now how to debug quicker. 

90% of games do not warrant anything close to 4 years of straight developing.


----------



## dream (Jan 8, 2012)

Yeah, I'm mostly referring to Bethesda when going with the 4+ year figure.  While the average game don't require quite the lengthy development time almost every game could benefit from more development time.   Bug testing, balancing gameplay, perhaps even refining the story instead of throwing together a half-assed single-player for what is a multiplayer game.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 8, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Yeah, I'm mostly referring to Bethesda when going with the 4+ year figure.  While the average game don't require quite the lengthy development time almost every game could benefit from more development time.   Bug testing, balancing gameplay, perhaps even refining the story instead of throwing together a half-assed single-player for what is a multiplayer game.



So CoD and such?


----------



## Evil Ghost Ninja (Jan 8, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Seems they were average $35.00-$40.00.



35 bucks in 1990 dollars is like $63 bucks 2012 dollars, shit was expensive even then.


----------



## Naruto (Jan 8, 2012)

I really doubt you will see a PS4 this soon.


----------



## PoinT_BlanK (Jan 8, 2012)

We won't see it soon. But it can still be announced/some details/info revealed.

And then shown the year after and finally released the year after that/early 2014


----------



## Canute87 (Jan 8, 2012)

Hatifnatten said:


> lol, what does porting has to do with anything? Port any shit all day long, as long as Sony has better exclusives and Bluray everything else is trash.
> 
> The second all other consoles will get Bluray, they officially lost.



In all honesty sony's exclusives aren't as powerful as Nintendo's. If the other consoles have most of the other games available sony isn't going to really stand a chance here. They have always depended on third party support. And with development costs being a real bitch to developers what do you think is going to be the smart choice?

Porting between two consoles that are easy to develop for and have more sales or the expensive cost for Sony's console and the less sales?


----------



## Furious George (Jan 8, 2012)

We don't need new consoles. 

First, make the ones you have now more goodlier and less susceptible to hacking and blowing up in my face.


----------



## Killerqueen (Jan 8, 2012)

That cool,Might just get the new xbox


----------



## Canute87 (Jan 8, 2012)

Furious George said:


> We don't need new consoles.
> 
> First, make the ones you have now more goodlier and less susceptible to hacking and blowing up in my face.



Well Ninty will always keep the others on their toes.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 8, 2012)

George is just bitter because his PS3 borked.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 8, 2012)

Furious George said:


> We don't need new consoles.
> 
> First, make the ones you have now more goodlier and less susceptible to hacking and blowing up in my face.



Sega tried that once.... didn't turn out too well.


Also...."goodlier"?


----------



## Gnome (Jan 8, 2012)

Yeah, goodlier as in goodliness.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 8, 2012)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but neither of those are real words are they


----------



## Gnome (Jan 8, 2012)

What if I told you everything you knew was a lie?


----------



## Dreamer (Jan 8, 2012)

Microsoft and Sony doing more rigorous next gen console testing before releasing to the public would be nice.


----------



## Furious George (Jan 8, 2012)

Gnome said:


> George is just bitter because his PS3 borked.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 8, 2012)

Gnome said:


> What if I told you everything you knew was a lie?



Then i'd obviously have to kill you


----------



## dream (Jan 8, 2012)

Dreamer said:


> Microsoft and Sony doing more rigorous next gen console testing before releasing to the public would be nice.



Microsoft certainly doesn't need another RROD scenario.


----------



## Golden Circle (Jan 8, 2012)

I sure hope the new consoles support 3d tv. It's going to be standard by the time those consoles hit the market.


----------



## dream (Jan 8, 2012)

Golden Circle said:


> I sure hope the new consoles support 3d tv. It's going to be standard by the time those consoles hit the market.



3D technology doesn't really have much to offer when it comes to gaming at least with the current 3D technology that we have but I suspect that we might get support for 3D TVs.


----------



## martryn (Jan 8, 2012)

Anyone notice in the Sears catalogue how the games were mislabled?  They had Castlevania and Link mixed up, and showed pictures of SMB instead of SMB2.


----------



## PoinT_BlanK (Jan 8, 2012)

Golden Circle said:


> I sure hope the new consoles support 3d tv. It's going to be standard by the time those consoles hit the market.



3d doesn't exist. It's government propaganda to boost cinema admissions and keep you programmed. Now they manage to fool you that this mythical tech its at your reach, in your living room.

It's all a lie. A lie. Hide your wifes, hide your kids.

Fuck 3d.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 8, 2012)

for the record, stereoscopic 3D already exists for both xbox360 and ps3


----------



## Deleted member 183504 (Jan 8, 2012)

3D would be cool and all if I didn't have to wear glasses to have it.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 8, 2012)

BucketheadFan23 said:


> 3D would be cool and all if I didn't have to wear glasses to have it.



or give migraines/headaches.


----------



## Butcher (Jan 8, 2012)

3D .

God damn you Avatar .


----------



## Shirker (Jan 8, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> or give migraines/headaches.



That's what happens when you're essentially fooling your eyes into crossing themselves for extended periods of time. 


As for this discussion*shrugs* Ehh....

3D isn't inherently bad. Heck, to tell the truth, I kinda like it as well ('tis a internet sin, I know. I commit many of them). I think it's just one of those things that are starting to piss the internet off more because of the oversaturation rather than the thing itself.

For example, no one really gave a shit left or right about the voice box effect until Lil' Wayne started raping it.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 8, 2012)

Considering T-Pain was the one who popularized it, the fact that Wayne made it suck is another matter entirely


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 9, 2012)

I had no idea...


----------



## Vault (Jan 9, 2012)

This is a bad idea.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 9, 2012)

Vault said:


> This is a bad idea.



Considering that it sounds like the plot of MGSeacewalker...


----------



## Fiona (Jan 9, 2012)

i dont understand the reasoning behind "new consoles". 



Just re-release the old ones with the better hardware and make them backwards compatible. That saves money on the advertising, the R & D on new designs and names, and would eliminate the "They made ANOTHER one already?!?!?" reaction that parents and consumers have. 



But dont mind me, i just make sense


----------



## Zaru (Jan 9, 2012)

Nintendo will continue to bore me with their uninteresting franchises that only live off nostalgia. Not even going to talk about their craptastic wiiu  controller concept.

As for the next ps, it will probably take a while. But I may only consider it i it's reasonably priced and most importantly BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY. I can't stress this enough. I was going to buy a cheap ps3 and the major titles of its lineup at the end of its lifecycle, but this feature might convince me otherwise.

I'm happy with my 360 and all but I'm not going to buy the next one until the lineup is worth it.


----------



## Shirker (Jan 9, 2012)

Fiona said:


> i dont understand the reasoning behind "new consoles".
> 
> Just re-release the old ones with the better hardware and make them backwards compatible.



So, what... make a new console? But with the old name?

Or do you mean add new hardware on an established build? I'd imagine adding all the new hardware would eventually lend itself to creating a "new" console anyway. Plus the "A NEW one?!" feeling would just get replaced with an "A new VERSION?!" feeling either way.


----------



## Fiona (Jan 9, 2012)

Thats a good point, but i mean they could hardly argue raising the price at that point, part of it is purely to make billions off the consumers which is just ridiculous when they could easily just replace the harware and raise the price by like 50 - 75 bucks but NOPE 


NEW CONSOLE IS NEW AN DEMANDS HIGH PRICE 


Backwards compatible?!?!?  


Why fuck you need old games when we has NEW games 


WHY YOU NO HAS NEW SYSTEM!?!?!?!?!


----------



## Bonney (Jan 9, 2012)

Fiona said:


> Thats a good point, but i mean they could hardly argue raising the price at that point, *part of it is purely to make billions off the consumers which is just ridiculous *when they could easily just replace the harware and raise the price by like 50 - 75 bucks but NOPE
> 
> 
> NEW CONSOLE IS NEW AN DEMANDS HIGH PRICE



Its called business, you new to the concept?

Jokes aside completely changing the hardware and only releasing it 75 dollars more than current prices is totally ludicrous. New hardware to support even more high tech games is going to need a bigger price bracket then 75 dollars, if you actually want some kind of improvement. Look at the ps3, they were losing money with the manufacture even when it was 600 dollars.


----------



## Vault (Jan 9, 2012)

Fiona said:


> Thats a good point, but i mean they could hardly argue raising the price at that point, part of it is purely to make billions off the consumers which is just ridiculous when they could easily just replace the harware and raise the price by like 50 - 75 bucks but NOPE
> 
> 
> NEW CONSOLE IS NEW AN DEMANDS HIGH PRICE
> ...



There is something called product life cycle. That would never work. In the long run they will all lose money.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 9, 2012)

Price isn't an issue for me I just don't know if I want to buy a new console. I guess it depends on the launch titles.

Also fuck 3D gaming. Shit just ruins my viewing pleasure, having to sit in a specific place and all that nonsense. Days of just lying on the floor, bed, chilling on a beanbag and what not are long gone.


----------



## Grep (Jan 9, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> They are going to coalesce around Cell Architecture, more advanced cell drivers will probably be added on top of the ones already designed in PS3. That means they are going to put in a relatively weak CPU computer driver and supplement it with their custom built solution.  That also means unfortunately, that the problems found in PS3(atleast for a majority of non Sony developers) will still be there next generation. But the PS4 can still be a success. I would have no issues, if Sony can find a way to fix the blu ray's slow reading speeds. Having to mandatory install every game is a pain.



There is/was nothing that complex about developing on PS3. The issue is 3rd party developers are too lazy to properly make games for different consoles. The good developers never had any real issues. The lazy ones just didn't like having to spend any time to actually make something of quality. They would copy and paste if they could.



Eternal Goob said:


> I can believe that.
> 
> I wouldn't trust those percentages at all, they probably are just random numbers that developers used.  In any case Uncharted 3 should be using every drop of power the PS3 has or at least close to it.





Inuhanyou said:


> SCE will be the ones getting the final drops out of the PS3
> 
> If i recall, Sucker Punch apparently only managed to max out 60% of the Cell's overall capability for Infamous 2. And about 30% for Infamous 1



This is a really misguided notion of how games work in relation to hardware. We aren't talking about sports cars where we know exactly how horsepower and other stats weigh in performance wise. Its not a matter of 'using more', its really a matter of 'using less'. Its efficiency really. Its one of the most common problems you deal with when developing software. Two people can achieve the exact same result at vastly different levels of efficiency. Especially considering the complexity of video games today this becomes a major issue. 

They used to use very direct, demanding means of improving games graphically. But now most developers actually use very 'cheap' ways so to speak. Some of these types of methods are considered bad though by players/reviewers/etc.

Blizzard/WoW is one of the best examples. That game has visually improved immensely over the years without changing much or requiring much more from a hardware standpoint. Because they find clever ways to make things look better without sacrificing performance. 

And that is really the difference between good and bad developers. I could easily 'max out' any of the consoles with some terrible, shitty, inefficient 'game'.


----------



## Zaru (Jan 9, 2012)

> The lazy ones just didn't like having to spend any time to actually make something of quality. They would copy and paste if they could.


Lazy? I'm sure at least half of such games are limited by publisher demands, deadlines and budget issues. 

"We need 2 weeks to fix the engine to run well on the ps3"
"Fuck that shit, it costs more money than it'd earn us. Now back to work, slaves!" *whips*


----------



## Canute87 (Jan 9, 2012)

BGtymin said:


> There is/was nothing that complex about developing on PS3. The issue is 3rd party developers are too lazy to properly make games for different consoles. The good developers never had any real issues. The lazy ones just didn't like having to spend any time to actually make something of quality. They would copy and paste if they could.
> .



Not everybody is/will be at the same level. 

Why do you think GUI interfaces kicked command line in terms of usage and popularity?

If there is an easier console to develop for, work with it. It's not like it costs a dollar to make these games.

At the end of the say people want to turn a profit.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 9, 2012)

BGtymin said:


> There is/was nothing that complex about developing on PS3. The issue is 3rd party developers are too lazy to properly make games for different consoles. The good developers never had any real issues. The lazy ones just didn't like having to spend any time to actually make something of quality. They would copy and paste if they could.
> 
> .



You don't know anything that goes into game development do you? The RSX(the original processing unit of the console) by itself would be relatively simple. But at the same time, the RSX is a very weak processor and would never be able to handle games by itself, developers need even the barest knowledge on how to offload assets onto the Cell processors in order to make a game with enough memory leeway. This is why issues pop up between multiplatform titles, because in many cases, the development team will not have any experience with this before PC and 360 development. There is a reason why Sony based architecture this gen needs to be properly coded in a specific way. (many have even started with the resolve of getting their games as PS3 lead platform titles in order to make sure it is if up to snuff during the conversion) And its not down to "laziness" that they can't fix these issues, its down to lack of "proper know how".  Capcom has had issues, Epic has had issues, Bethesda has had more issues than most. Almost 80% of all multiplatform titles have SOME form of degradation between the other versions and the PS3 version, and its down to the PS3's architecture itself.




> In an interview with the Official PlayStation Magazine, and transcribed by Eurogamer, SCEI head Kazuo Hirai said that the PlayStation 3 was intentionally designed to be a difficult platform for developers to work on. Wait, what?
> 
> "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai.
> 
> He added, "So it's a kind of - I wouldn't say a double-edged sword - but it's hard to program for, and a lot of people see the negatives of it, but if you flip that around, it means the hardware has a lot more to offer."



What he's talking about is the inclusion of the Cell processor designed to give more power to the console for a longer lifespan. 

My advice to you would be to learn to research. Digital Foundry would probably be a good first place to start.


----------



## Yoko (Jan 9, 2012)

I guess as a video game freak, I'm pretty interested what the new generation will bring forth.  I remember how excited I was when the Xbox 360 and Wii came out [and later on, the PS3] even if I wasn't getting either of them.  It was just the gaming nerd within me, I suppose.  

From a monetary perspective, however, I'm not too excited.  I don't feel that the generation has run its course yet [unless we're comparing to the PC], and I'm in no rush to be pressured to buy another $500 system.  I basically don't want the current gen consoles to be abandoned for the new generation which I cannot afford/don't want to pay for just yet.


----------



## Shirker (Jan 9, 2012)

Yeah, I'm pretty much in the same boat. I'm not gonna go near them unless they give me good reason to, but that's just plain common sense consumerism and doesn't really need to be stated over and over. 

All the same, it's gonna be interesting to see what they have up their sleeves at E3 regarding these consoles. Although this year is probably just gonna be hype. The meaty bits arrive next year.


----------



## Krory (Jan 9, 2012)

It's so cute when some people try to understand video game hardware and software development.

"It's not Sony's fault, it's the fault of EVERYONE ELSE. EVERYONE BUT SONY IS WRONG AND BAD."

Obvious fanboy is obvious.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 9, 2012)

Tell me about it


----------



## Sotei (Jan 9, 2012)

Regardless what SONY and MS announce, I'm buying the Nintendo WU, day 1.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 9, 2012)

I'll think about the Wii-U when they talk more about what they plan for first party and exclusives. So far they've just been talking about third party support, which mind you is a really good thing, I'm glad they're caring about it more. But as I see it, I already have a 360 and PS3 that's going to have those third party games as well, why dish out for a Wii-U when I could get those games on something I already have.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 9, 2012)

Well i would say that considering rumor has it that Wii U is specifically geared towards having the biggest advantage third party multiplatform wise against PS3 and 360(700 MB memory cache compared to 512 360 cache and PS3 256 split cache), i would disagree with you there. I would, if Wii U didn't have that godawful Tablet in place of a controller  

To make it worse, i bet you Nintendo is gonna require some sort of functionality with it for every game, even one's not first party


----------



## Krory (Jan 9, 2012)

I can't wait to try out a Wii U.  HUDless gameplay for every game will be so sexy.


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## dream (Jan 9, 2012)

> To make it worse, i bet you Nintendo is gonna require some sort of functionality with it for every game, even one's not first party



I see no problem with that.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 9, 2012)

Now I can play a console and type on the computer at the same time


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 9, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> I see no problem with that.



I've been waiting for Nintendo to make a console with an honest to goodness controller again  but considering Nintendo's recent comments about controller functionality, i'm not holding my breath for it


----------



## dream (Jan 9, 2012)

This is a wonderful idea for a controller, don't think that it'll be terrible before trying it silly.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 9, 2012)

But its so big and unwieldy(not what she said)  i keep thinking of the "duke" original xbox controller which caused many blisters and aches in my hands before i got the better one


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 9, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> *But its so big and unwieldy*(not what she said)  i keep thinking of the "duke" original xbox controller which caused many blisters and aches in my hands before i got the better one



Have you held it yet?


----------



## Gnome (Jan 9, 2012)

The original Xbox controller is a mans controller, you just weren't man enough to wield the behemoth.


I murdered my neighbor with one, works great.


----------



## dream (Jan 9, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> But its so big and unwieldy(not what she said)  i keep thinking of the "duke" original xbox controller which caused many blisters and aches in my hands before i got the better one



People at E3 were saying that it was pretty comfortable to hold, give it a chance.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 9, 2012)

It _looks_ big and unwieldy 

Okay okay, so i don't know for sure yet. But still, not enthused. Its on nintendo to prove me wrong


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## Krory (Jan 9, 2012)

According to previews of the Wii U from hands-on experiences, though, everyone says its appearance is misleading and that it's actually pretty comfortable.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 9, 2012)

Gnome said:


> The original Xbox controller is a mans controller, you just weren't man enough to wield the behemoth.



He couldn't take it like a man.


----------



## dream (Jan 9, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> It _looks_ big and unwieldy
> 
> Okay okay, so i don't know for sure yet. But still, not enthused. Its on nintendo to prove me wrong



Are you at least intrigued by the possibilities that it can offer?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 9, 2012)

Well yeah, i mean i've always thought about the possibilities of playing your console games on controller(you don't know how excited i was when the psp first debuted and we got word of that "use your psp like a controller on your ps3" thing).

But the design just has me hesitant, am i really gonna hold a controller in this way?



The fact that its completely flat feels like murder after extended playtime.


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## Gnome (Jan 9, 2012)

It looks like you're pinching it to hold it in place. Look at the person right hand, and the thumb, it looks uncomfortable.


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## dream (Jan 9, 2012)

> But the design just has me hesitant, am i really gonna hold a controller in this way?



Perhaps for some things but normally you shouldn't be holding it like that.


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## Gnome (Jan 9, 2012)

I find tablets uncomfortable, I can't imagine using one for one of my splurge gaming sessions of 10 hours straight.


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## Krory (Jan 9, 2012)

As someone who uses a tablet a lot, it's not that bad even with extended periods, and the grooves on the back and the rest for the fingers will help obviously.

And there's little reason to be holding it like that all the time.

Most pictures don't show the wide bar along the back in which you can let it rest on your fingers and keep your index fingers on. When you're holding it properly, you won't even need to grip it.


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## Gnome (Jan 9, 2012)

We'll see, bright side is it can't be worse than the dualshock.


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## Krory (Jan 9, 2012)

Sony controllers like like "WTF?"

That's why no professional gamers use those.


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## Gnome (Jan 9, 2012)

It's the sticks being next to each other, it's terrible. My hands end up cramping after only a half hour.


----------



## Krory (Jan 9, 2012)

The controllers in general are too damn small.

Games aren't just for nine year olds anymore, gaiz.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 9, 2012)

Plus the plastic is cheap feeling, like a case of tic-tacs.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 9, 2012)

Krory said:


> As someone who uses a tablet a lot, it's not that bad even with extended periods, and the grooves on the back and the rest for the fingers will help obviously.
> 
> And there's little reason to be holding it like that all the time.
> 
> Most pictures don't show the wide bar along the back in which you can let it rest on your fingers and keep your index fingers on. When you're holding it properly, you won't even need to grip it.


----------



## Krory (Jan 9, 2012)

PS2 controller is the only controller in history I've broken - just by dropping it. Whole casing just cracked. It was like, what the deuce?

A cheapo-Game Stop version was more durable.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 9, 2012)

I thought the Dual Shock was pretty good for PS1 2 and 3  i've always enjoyed them(i can't imagine not having analogue now, even though i used to play just fine on ps1 without them). At the very least, its way better compared to Sony's ORIGINAL version for the PS3 controller(i'm sure we all remember that travesty)


----------



## jdbzkh (Jan 9, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I've been waiting for Nintendo to make a console with an honest to goodness controller again  but considering Nintendo's recent comments about controller functionality, i'm not holding my breath for it



After having a DS for idk 10 or so years now when it comes to two screens and Nintendo I'm not worried at all.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 9, 2012)

Well i really doubted it and it sounded stupid on the face of things, and from what i'm hearing here i was right 

There's virtually no way Sony can release a next gen console right now or even announce it. They have to continue to recoup their losses on PS3 or else PS4 will just eat into what they've managed to get back since squandering their PS2 dominance.


On the other hand, if Microsoft puts out their next gen console in conjunction with support for the original 360, it'll still hurt Sony who will still be on PS3.

Sony has to really figure out what they're doing here, they can't stay in this gen forever. Saying "next gen starts when we say so" isn't going to help you this time


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 9, 2012)




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## Inuhanyou (Jan 9, 2012)

If i didn't know better, i'd say that say that that was a new Metroid game for Wii U considering the HUD


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## dream (Jan 9, 2012)

I suspect that he is lying like a bitch but hey, I don't mind if PS4 isn't revealed this year.


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## Malvingt2 (Jan 9, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> If i didn't know better, i'd say that say that that was a new Metroid game for Wii U considering the HUD


 It seem it is.. Maybe the next Prime game?..."Retro"


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 9, 2012)

looks fake, probably because it is.


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## Krory (Jan 9, 2012)

By 2013 at the latest, Sony's hand will be forced.


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## Malvingt2 (Jan 9, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> looks fake, probably because it is.





Wii U at CES


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 9, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> Wii U at CES



Is the pic earlier really what the controller looks like on from a distance?
Must be because of the angle and game that's on it.
Are those honestly the only two pics of it.
No video footage?


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## Malvingt2 (Jan 9, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Is the pic earlier really what the controller looks like on from a distance?
> Must be because of the angle and game that's on it.
> Are those honestly the only two pics of it.
> No video footage?


 no idea. those pictures just came by online. Wii U at CES. I am trying to look for the source. Saw them at neogaf.


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## Krory (Jan 9, 2012)

>NeoGAF

Oh, no wonder.


----------



## dream (Jan 9, 2012)

Krory, something wrong with neogaf?


----------



## Krory (Jan 9, 2012)

Neogaf is one of the many sites out there that jump on anything as a news story.

You could send an e-mail to them saying that you found proof of a PlayStation 4, and they would report it.

Of course, they aren't the only ones, but...


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 9, 2012)

Images seem suspect to me like they are just placed in the screens and the normal reflection are left in, but maybe that's bad photography. The green light for the controller is off in the second pic.
But that is clearly a wii U there, but why is no one looking at it I mean I see no people.


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## Sotei (Jan 9, 2012)

No, it's fake, it was someone on Gaf that created it to show off a "what if". They haven't showed anything. The WU is at CES and the WU was next to that amazingly thing LG OLED TV, but nothing was running from the WU. Speculation was that the city scene was the demo of Tokyo Nintendo showed off last year at E3 but there's been no confirmation at all.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 9, 2012)

Sotei said:


> No, it's fake, it was someone on Gaf that created it to show off a "what if". They haven't showed anything. The WU is at CES and the WU was next to that amazingly thing LG OLED TV, but nothing was running from the WU. Speculation was that the city scene was the demo of Tokyo Nintendo showed off last year at E3 but there's been no confirmation at all.


 Thanks for the clarification Sotei.. and I can't wait for E3..


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 9, 2012)

Sotei said:


> No, it's fake, it was someone on Gaf that created it to show off a "what if". They haven't showed anything. The WU is at CES and the WU was next to that amazingly thing LG OLED TV, but nothing was running from the WU. Speculation was that the city scene was the demo of Tokyo Nintendo showed off last year at E3 but there's been no confirmation at all.



That's what I thought.


----------



## Sotei (Jan 9, 2012)

Yo yo yo, check it, check it, check it. Nintendo setting up a WU App Store. 




And a video:



Yeah the vid isn't about the app store... boo!


----------



## dream (Jan 9, 2012)

Sotei said:


> And a video:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah the vid isn't about the app store... boo!



That's a terribly boring video.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 9, 2012)

Sotei said:


> Yo yo yo, check it, check it, check it. Nintendo setting up a WU App Store.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That isn't news we already knew they would do that.


----------



## Sotei (Jan 9, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> That isn't news we already knew they would do that.




When did they talk about an app store? I keep up with Nintendo news and this is the first time I've heard of it being confirmed.


----------



## dream (Jan 9, 2012)

Sotei said:


> When did they talk about an app store? I keep up with Nintendo news and this is the first time I've heard of it being confirmed.



December 29, 2011

The article is old silly.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 10, 2012)

Of course that Metroid pictures is fake, you can see the blown up artifacts on the top right of the screen.


----------



## Sotei (Jan 10, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> December 29, 2011
> 
> The article is old silly.





:amazed... It's not... that old.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 10, 2012)




----------



## dream (Jan 10, 2012)

If a news article on a popular subject is older than three or four days then it's best to assume that everyone and their mother knows about it.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Jan 10, 2012)

Can't wake for the inevitable trainwreck conferences.


----------



## dream (Jan 10, 2012)

Can't wait for the groan inducing marketing for the uber casuals.


----------



## Sotei (Jan 10, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Can't wake for the inevitable trainwreck conferences.




You didn't catch the SONY and MS CES conferences?... Oh boy, talk about train wreck, MS more so. 

I know CES isn't necessarily a gaming convention but sometimes they like to throw gamers a bone. Not this year, by Odin... MS, was torture.


----------



## Krory (Jan 10, 2012)

>CES
>Casuals

Uhm, duh? Welcome to every CES ever.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 10, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Can't wait for the groan inducing marketing for the uber casuals.


I don't mind if it means more this to watch:


----------



## dream (Jan 10, 2012)

Gnome said:


> I don't mind if it means more this to watch:



I can't bring myself to find amusement in such silliness.


----------



## Krory (Jan 10, 2012)

Could be worse.

Could be another story about Esua liking Twilight.

Or forgetting the lube.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 10, 2012)

Sony still has to figure out how to recapture their losses on PS3 before even thinking about a new console 

Microsoft on the other hand, have already been confirmed as working on their next gen hardware since early last year  And 360 took about a year and a half to develop.

I forsee a scenario in which Sony is stuck between a rock and a hard place


----------



## Corran (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm not sure why Microsoft would announce a new console when they just had their best year ever, its a bit silly isn't it?


----------



## dream (Jan 10, 2012)

Well, if there won't be a PS4 at Sony's E3 conference then I suspect that we'll have another boring conference from them. 

Not that I care, I'm only look forward to more info on the Wii U.


----------



## Velocity (Jan 10, 2012)

Krory said:


> Could be worse.
> 
> Could be another story about Esua liking Twilight.
> 
> Or forgetting the lube.



On top of everything else, Esura likes Twilight as well?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 10, 2012)

Corran said:


> I'm not sure why Microsoft would announce a new console when they just had their best year ever, its a bit silly isn't it?



Well why not? New consoles are not announced when the old consoles have flagging sales. That's like Sega level business sense(Both Saturn from Genesis and Dreamcast from Saturn), it doesn't make much sense.

Microsoft ditched support of Xbox soon after announcing 360 because of a licensing dispute with Nvidia, their graphics processing provider, it costed an arm and a leg to keep up production.  PS3 on the other hand was announced while PS2 was still the dominant party of the 3 big consoles, having some of its best sales ever.


----------



## Fraust (Jan 10, 2012)

lmao Aji (emotes not working?)


Microsoft wants more money of course.

"Oh, you liked our Kinect enough to get us to 66 million consoles sold? How about... The next Xbox and Kinect 2 right after the conference for everyone. Both are 4% smaller and only get red rings if you use them. "


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 10, 2012)

So at E3 720 vs Wii U? M$ conference is going to be good this time around? 4 horrible years in a row correct?


----------



## dream (Jan 10, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> So at E3 720 vs Wii U? M$ conference is going to be good this time around? 4 horrible years in a row correct?



If there isn't anything like Kinectimals this year then it'll be a decent conference at least.  Maybe.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 10, 2012)

I keep hearing about Timesplitters 4, among others


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 10, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> If there isn't anything like Kinectimals this year then it'll be a decent conference at least.  Maybe.



What are you talking about those are the best ones.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 10, 2012)

If Microsoft is M$, would Sony be Son??


----------



## dream (Jan 10, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> What are you talking about those are the best ones.







Inuhanyou said:


> If Microsoft is M$, would Sony be Son??



Yes.


----------



## Velocity (Jan 10, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I keep hearing about Timesplitters 4, among others



Don't tease. I've been waitin' for that for seven years now.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 10, 2012)




----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 10, 2012)

Aji Tae said:


> Don't tease. I've been waitin' for that for seven years now.



Duek nukem forever and versus same boat.


----------



## Krory (Jan 10, 2012)

Aji Tae said:


> On top of everything else, Esura likes Twilight as well?



Oh my, you didn't know?

I'm sorry you had to find out this way...


----------



## Fraust (Jan 10, 2012)

That console looks like an external hard drive or disk drive. I wish the Xbox could be so small.


----------



## Krory (Jan 10, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Duek nukem forever and versus same boat.



Except DNF actually came out.

Versus never will.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 10, 2012)

About the Wii U. I don't believe that the controller will look like that, same goes for the dummy console.. If I remember well the controller dev kit is already at number 5 with the developers...


----------



## dream (Jan 10, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> About the Wii U. I don't believe that the controller will look like that, same goes for the dummy console.. If I remember well the controller dev kit is already at number 5 with the developers...



Nah, I'm pretty sure that it'll look like that.  Some of the hardware inside it might be changed but it will look like that.  Same goes for the console.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 10, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Nah, I'm pretty sure that it'll look like that.  Some of the hardware inside it might be changed but it will look like that.  Same goes for the console.


 I can give you the controller but the dummy console? I though it was a place holder?


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 10, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> I can give you the controller but the dummy console? I though it was a place holder?



No doubt they will make aesthetic choices and more air holes.


----------



## dream (Jan 10, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> I can give you the controller but the dummy console? I though it was a place holder?



It was supposed to be a place holder?  Didn't hear about that at all but I could be wrong.


----------



## Krory (Jan 10, 2012)

The console is a place holder.

Controller is final design.

That's why Nintendo didn't want pictures taken of the console.

Also was it mentioned that Sony exec is again denying PS4 at E3?


----------



## dream (Jan 10, 2012)

> Also was it mentioned that Sony exec is again denying PS4 at E3?



Yeah, someone posted a link to it on the last page.


----------



## Krory (Jan 10, 2012)

Just makin' sure.

Too lazy to look back.

And it's so common that shit like this and then denials pop up....


----------



## dream (Jan 10, 2012)

Krory said:


> And it's so common that shit like this and then denials pop up....



I wonder if it's because they want to surprise people with a new console.  If everyone and their mother knows that a new console will be revealed long before the reveal it takes out quite a bit out of the impact.  Of course Sony could be truthful when they say that there won't be a new console shown at E3.


----------



## Krory (Jan 10, 2012)

Considering that every single analyst said there would be new consoles at CES or TGS or every other thing.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 10, 2012)

It just would make no business sense for me personally for Sony to reveal their PS4 so soon


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 10, 2012)

So even after all the money M$ made, we can guess they are in the best position to reveal their next console now"E3"? just to steal the Thunder of Wii U and tell fans to wait a year?


----------



## Krory (Jan 10, 2012)

Sony's hand will be forced when the Wii U comes out and Microsoft announces theirs.

It'll play out exactly like this generation.


----------



## Sotei (Jan 10, 2012)

Let's be honest, everyone knows that MS and SONY are working on new consoles, revealing it is just confirmation. The only thing that excites me and probably most gamers is most likely the games, not the consoles themselves. I want to see what the games will look like and if there's new franchises to salivate over. The consoles don't matter to me one bit, I know they're coming, I could care less what they look like, show me the games!


----------



## dream (Jan 10, 2012)

Krory said:


> Considering that every single analyst said there would be new consoles at CES or TGS or every other thing.



Damn analysts can barely predict what the weather will be like in two minutes let alone a console reveal. 



Inuhanyou said:


> It just would make no business sense for me personally for Sony to reveal their PS4 so soon



We could have an announcement at this E3 and a launch in late 2013/2014, that's more than enough time to make some money on PS3.  



Malvingt2 said:


> So even after all the money M$ made, we can guess they are in the best position to reveal their next console now"E3"? just to steal the Thunder of Wii U and tell fans to wait a year?



Microsoft probably is in a good enough position to do that.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 10, 2012)

> Speaking at a "roundtable with reporters" at CES (as reported by The Wall Street Journal), Sony's Kaz Hirai answered a question about the PlayStation 4 showing up at this year's E3. "Andy (House) is absolutely right in that we are not making any announcements at E3. I've always said a 10-year life cycle for PS3, and there is no reason to go away from that."



C'mon Sony.....C'mon 

An entire 10 year cycle? Even your "latent" cell with full potential unlocked has no chance against a 10 year shift in graphical processing. That makes no sense whatsoever.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 10, 2012)

Krory said:


> Sony's hand will be forced when the Wii U comes out and Microsoft announces theirs.
> 
> It'll play out exactly like this generation.



So the ps4 will be rushed because of the other consoles(wasn't the ps3 rushed it's what I heard so I'm not entirely sure) but be more solid and expensive than the xbox 720 which dies if a baby coughs and nintendo will laugh it's way to the bank?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 10, 2012)

Well no  Because by definition 360's RROD issue was because of putting the heatsink so close to the GPU so it would get hot and overload.

If its not a problem in the slim consoles(it's not), it obviously won't be a problem in the next one


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 10, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Well no  Because by definition 360's RROD issue was because of putting the heatsink so close to the GPU so it would get hot and overload.
> 
> If its not a problem in the slim consoles(it's not), it obviously won't be a problem in the next one



I wasn't being serious 
RROD was caused by other things besides that and not necessarily they could easily goof in some other way.


----------



## Krory (Jan 10, 2012)

RRODs were 98% easily fixable. Just sayin'.

But yeah, for the most part... that's exactly what happened with the PS3 and that's why Sony lost a lot of exclusives way back. Too damn secretive.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Jan 10, 2012)

Wii U: 2011 unveil, 2012 release.

Nextbox: 2012 unveil, 2013 release.

PS4: 2013 unveil, 2014 release.

You heard it here first.


----------



## dream (Jan 10, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Wii U: 2011 unveil, 2012 release.
> 
> Nextbox: 2012 unveil, 2013 release.
> 
> ...



Seems pretty reasonable.


----------



## Krory (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm calling 2013 unveil and 2013 release for PS4.


----------



## dream (Jan 10, 2012)

Krory said:


> I'm calling 2013 unveil and 2013 release for PS4.



At the earliest I can see a November/December release but the odds of that happening are pretty low.


----------



## Krory (Jan 10, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> At the earliest I can see a November/December release but the odds of that happening are pretty low.



It'll be rushed to shit to try and get out as early as possible to keep up with competition.


----------



## dream (Jan 10, 2012)

I think that it'll depend quite a bit on the hardware specs of the Xbox 360, if the PS3 seems superior in terms of hardware then I think that Sony could afford to be a bit late to the party, it might hurt a bit at first but in the long term it'll balance out.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 11, 2012)




----------



## First Tsurugi (Jan 11, 2012)

Sony's approach to the PS4 is going to probably depend on how big an increment the Nextbox turns out to be.

If it turns out to be a fairly modest boost in power like I suspect it will be, I don't think Sony will see any need to hurry out another console. They can just continue to support the PS3, which would already be reasonably powerful despite now being the weakest of the consoles, and already competitively priced because it's been out for several years now.

Kaz seems very committed to the ten year plan based on his comments about their lack of plans to announce PS4.

On a related note, apparently a Microsoft rep has also said they have no plans to show off a new console at this years E3.

Could Nintendo really get a full year's head start on the Eighth gen?


----------



## dream (Jan 11, 2012)

> If it turns out to be a fairly modest boost in power like I suspect it will be,



I highly doubt that it'll be a modest boost in power.  At the very least I expect 1.5 GBs of RAM and a AMD Radeon 48xx based GPU along with a decent CPU.  That will blow the 360 out of the water in terms of power.  What's more likely is 2 GBs of RAM and a gpu based off of AMD's 58xx series of GPUs.  



> Kaz seems very committed to the ten year plan based on his comments about their lack of plans to announce PS4.



That ten year plan doesn't mean that we can't have a new console within those ten years from Sony.



> On a related note, apparently a Microsoft rep has also said they have no plans to show off a new console at this years E3.



Do you have a source?  In any case I wouldn't trust it.



> Could Nintendo really get a full year's head start on the Eighth gen?



Could be possible and it would do wonders for Nintendo.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jan 11, 2012)

They need to focus on Vita first. I heard Vita is already selling poorly. Maybe because the lack of launch titles, but the sales are even lower compared to the first PSP launch.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 11, 2012)

I haven't heard anywhere that Microsoft has denied E3 plans  

A source would be necessary. If anyone is to announce at E3, it would be Microsoft. We know they are actively working on it. We've seen the resume documents and everything, and that was a long time ago.


----------



## LMJ (Jan 24, 2012)

Let the shitstorm begin.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 24, 2012)

Lee Min Jung said:


> Let the shitstorm begin.


 I will not be surprises if this is true. I am reading 20% more powerful than the Wii U. Not bad. Graphic is getting to a point that it will not matter on consoles..


----------



## M a t t h e w (Jan 24, 2012)

Lee Min Jung said:


> Let the shitstorm begin.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 24, 2012)

That's pretty, meh.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jan 24, 2012)

As long as they don't rush the fucking product...


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 24, 2012)

People have to get it tho, M$ and Sony do not want to lose money in the next gen console. They can't afford another long cycle of loses.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jan 24, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> People have to get it tho, M$ and Sony do not want to lose money in the next gen console. They can't afford another long cycle of loses.


MS has been getting profits over Xbox Live and their loss of each product sold is not greater compared to Sony, who was actually losing every single money for every single ps3 sold. They were only making money from the software.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 24, 2012)

ExoSkel said:


> MS has been getting profits over Xbox Live and their loss of each product sold is not greater compared to Sony, who was actually losing every single money for every single ps3 sold. They were only making money from the software.


 didn't they start getting profit from the 360 recently? I know about Kinect huge success..


----------



## Fraust (Jan 24, 2012)

There's no way they weren't making profits from Xbox Live.

And 20%? That doesn't sound like a big deal. But at this point, graphics don't matter as much. We have games that look amazing, but if what we're playing has a shit story, generic boring gameplay, or isn't innovative what does it matter what it looks like?


----------



## Dokiz1 (Jan 24, 2012)

Lee Min Jung said:


> Let the shitstorm begin.



that's it?



Malvingt2 said:


> didn't they start getting profit from the 360 recently? I know about Kinect huge success..



How many currently use it though?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 24, 2012)

Fraust said:


> There's no way they weren't making profits from Xbox Live.
> 
> And 20%? That doesn't sound like a big deal. But at this point, graphics don't matter as much. We have games that look amazing, but if what we're playing has a shit story, generic boring gameplay, or isn't innovative what does it matter what it looks like?


 They have to keep graphics on check imo.. Do we really need a huge jump with Graphics? I don't think so.



Dokiz1 said:


> How many currently use it though?


 does that matter when they already made the money?


----------



## Vault (Jan 24, 2012)

Yes we do!


----------



## Gnome (Jan 24, 2012)

Dokiz1 said:


> How many currently use it though?



Hopefully none, so they can quit wasting money on it and get back to paying for _real _games support.


----------



## Fraust (Jan 24, 2012)

The new engines that Square, Epic, and apparently Konami are creating (among other developers which will just make it superfluous) will make just about everybody's graphics pretty as well as shorten their development time.

If they spend the same amount of time as now to create games, maybe we can get a bunch of great games instead of 2 or 3 a year and 30 shit ones.


----------



## dream (Jan 24, 2012)

Seems reasonable and gives us a good idea of the Wii U's power as well and the launch date is within expectations.  Now we'll have to see how the PS4 is and when it will launch.


----------



## PoinT_BlanK (Jan 24, 2012)

And here was I expecting a console that would produce live fireworks and laser beams in my living room.


----------



## Fraust (Jan 24, 2012)

DualShock 4 lighter than Sixaxis controller, also invisible when turned off.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 24, 2012)

PoinT_BlanK said:


> And here was I expecting a console that would produce live fireworks and laser beams in my living room.



I too am upset about lack of Augmented Reality.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jan 24, 2012)

call me when it actually becomes relevant to gameplay 

Sony and MS better get their heads outta their asses..


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 24, 2012)

@RichIGN
Rich
That the Xbox 3 is only theoretically 20% more powerful than Wii U should be of some comfort to Nintendo fans.

@Mario1_7
Mark Ferguson
@RichIGN What? The Wii U specs are not Final right?...

@RichIGN
Rich
@Mario1_7 we have a pretty good sense of them.

@pkollar
Philip Kollar
@RichIGN Has Wii U info been revealed? Officially?

@RichIGN
Rich
@pkollar nah just the latest rumor rounds. Hence the "theoretically" part.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 24, 2012)

The same who IGN who "confirmed" that it was not Ashley in the Resident Evil trailer even though every other indication says otherwise?


The same IGN who starts flame bait articles with no basis whatsoever? 


No thanks.


Considering that we don't even have the ACTUAL specs for Wii U yet and it having been revealed last July, i have no inclination to believe that we have any actual information about the next Xbox considering it has not even been revealed yet.

There's a reason why no other website has reported this rumor. Because its just that, and IGN tries to assume that they know what they're actually talking about.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 24, 2012)

Yeah they might not have proof but the 720 will be more powerful than the WiiU.


----------



## Zaru (Jan 24, 2012)

"Might" 

I'll be surprised if the WiiU can even best the CURRENT gen in power. And no, Wii is not current gen, it's last gen with motion controls.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 24, 2012)

Wii U is a pandora box.


----------



## Sotei (Jan 24, 2012)

Zaru said:


> "Might"
> 
> I'll be surprised if the WiiU can even best the CURRENT gen in power. And no, Wii is not current gen, it's last gen with motion controls.




What are you smoking man? Cause I want some of that.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 24, 2012)

Gunners said:


> Yeah they might not have proof but the 720 will be more powerful than the WiiU.



Well that's to be expected 

My point is, that these kinds of rumors are started only because IGN wants their viewership up 100%, so they propagate it without any actual proof.

Its as much a rumor as the "both consoles will be revealed at E3" that they were propagating


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 24, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Well that's to be expected
> 
> My point is, that these kinds of rumors are started only because IGN wants their viewership up 100%, so they propagate it without any actual proof.


 inside sources.. all the proof we need?lol


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 24, 2012)

That they won't reveal? No, its hardly proof.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 24, 2012)

01NET didn't revealed any of their inside sources and they were right and all their claims. "Wii U, 3DS, VITA, 3DS Add on" just to mention a few.


----------



## Spirit King (Jan 24, 2012)

Actually IGN is usually pretty accurate in regards to console spec leaks....


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 24, 2012)

They don't have "a consistent track record", because they just throw out what they hear from websites and some happen to be true, a lot of shit they've said has been wrong actually. They aren't a barometer for truth-telling or whatever.

As i said, the wii u's specs aren't even out yet, so apparently being able to compare it to a console that isn't even revealed yet and may or may not be released next year is really pushing it.


----------



## Sotei (Jan 24, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> That they won't reveal? No, its hardly proof.




If they were to reveal their sources then they would never be trusted by said sources ever again, not to mention who ever said anything (if they're a minor employee) might lose their job.

It's just the nature of the beast, you never reveal your sources if you value getting insider information, that's just common sense.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 24, 2012)

Sotei said:


> If they were to reveal their sources then they would never be trusted by said sources ever again, not to mention who ever said anything (if they're a minor employee) might lose their job.
> 
> It's just the nature of the beast, you never reveal your sources if you value getting insider information, that's just common sense.




And, it gives one the excuse to put out rumors without actually having to be held to account for them as well 

Whatever, i'm not believing any of this until we get actual information on the console.


----------



## Spirit King (Jan 24, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> They have not been accurate because they just throw out what they hear from websites and some happen to be true. They aren't a barometer for truth-telling or whatever.
> 
> As i said, the wii u's specs aren't even out yet, so apparently being able to compare it to a console that isn't even revealed yet and may or may not be released next year is really pushing it.



They got the 3DS (just about) and Wii specs right, those are just random rumours they so love to comment on. Specs they got from their own sources are pretty legit as rare as they are.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 24, 2012)

I'm going to disregard it until we get actual information, that's what i'll say.


----------



## Spirit King (Jan 24, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I'm going to disregard it until we get actual information, that's what i'll say.



Obviously even if the specs are right there's still time for Microsoft to alter their specs. But really at this point it seems very likely the next x box will be in that range. Microsoft does personally like to lose money on each console they've sold for a reasonably large period of time. Heck it could be argue the only reason they did it with Xbox 360 was for market penetration which they got. Now is a better time tha any to start reaping the rewards.


----------



## Sotei (Jan 24, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> And, it gives one the excuse to put out rumors without actually having to be held to account for them as well
> 
> Whatever, i'm not believing any of this until we get actual information on the console.




I feel you man but we can't disregard that this _is_ the beginning of the end of this cycle and usually, things start leaking out. WU is coming this year, no way MS and SONY stay out of it for very long.

Anyway, you can't have smoke if you don't have fire.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 24, 2012)

Well i won't deny that. I've always thought that E3 will have Microsoft having an announcement, but until then, its anyone's guess


----------



## dream (Jan 24, 2012)

Zaru said:


> "Might"
> 
> I'll be surprised if the WiiU can even best the CURRENT gen in power. And no, Wii is not current gen, it's last gen with motion controls.



It'll likely be quite a bit better than the current generation.  In almost every rumor the Wii U has been stated as having an AMD 4xxx based GPU which is a few generations better than the GPUs in the PS3 and 360.


----------



## Corran (Jan 24, 2012)

Do we ever get the true specs until it comes out at retail and someone gets to disect it?

With a new xbox I wonder what new features they would do for Live and if they would charge more for it.


----------



## dream (Jan 24, 2012)

> Do we ever get the true specs until it comes out at retail and someone gets to disect it?



Not too sure about this but I'm sure that a developer has leaked specs before.



> With a new xbox I wonder what new features they would do for Live and if they would charge more for it.



If they do charge more for new features than it'll likely be for a separate plan that has those features, a Live Gold account shouldn't really charge more.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jan 25, 2012)

Zaru said:


> "Might"
> 
> I'll be surprised if the WiiU can even best the CURRENT gen in power. And no, Wii is not current gen, it's last gen with motion controls.



The WiiU already blows the 360 and PS3 out of the water. Its rough tech demos shit on the best looking games on both platforms.

The Xbox 3 and PS4 won't be much more powerful than the WiiU, no one will want to worry about all the heat issues that a more powerful system would cause.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Jan 25, 2012)

I love the hardware season


----------



## Zaru (Jan 25, 2012)

Sotei said:


> What are you smoking man? Cause I want some of that.





mystictrunks said:


> The WiiU already blows the 360 and PS3 out of the water. Its rough tech demos shit on the best looking games on both platforms.


Okay I admit I didn't check out the tech demos properly. Now I did. They still don't blow me out of the water, but crafty developers can surely do a lot with those capabilities, especially higher shader stuff that is on par with current pc tech.


mystictrunks said:


> The Xbox 3 and PS4 won't be much more powerful than the WiiU, no one will want to worry about all the heat issues that a more powerful system would cause.


If the Microsoft and Sony consoles come out years later, they'll obviously be built on newer and more efficient technology. Otherwise, going by how hot 1GHz CPUs were 10 years ago, current computers would be burning our houses down.
A heat disaster like the first gen of 360s is a huge planning and testing oversight, I do hope Microsoft learned from that.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 25, 2012)

Thinking about it, these specs aren't all that bad even if they are true(which i'm doubting)

You can't compare PC specs to console specs, because the outcomes often rely on how optimized the system itself is 

For example, a GPU like radeon hd 6670(the rumored GPU specs) in a PC would be just about mid range settings at 1080p and 30fps for a AAA quality game of today. Its serviceable but not anywhere near high end material.(even though it would already be much more powerful than a console game today)

In a console however, combined with the custom CPU and memory output, your actual result would be a significant improvement over the current console's(and even the ability to compete with a somewhat higher end PC atleast for a year or so) capability at a very low price with off the shelf components.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Jan 25, 2012)

mystictrunks said:


> The WiiU already blows the 360 and PS3 out of the water. Its rough tech demos shit on the best looking games on both platforms.






> The Xbox 3 and PS4 won't be much more powerful than the WiiU




Ignorance pierced through the heavens.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Jan 25, 2012)

Well, ofc these systems aren't going to be jaw-dropping. Nothing really close to max PC gaming, sadly.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 25, 2012)

Well, if we think in strictly console terms it would be jaw dropping. For people who don't play on PC, and are solely seeing the jump from console to console, its going to be a pretty huge thing to witness.

For me though, i'm not so excited about PC power these days.

Not to be an elitist or anything, but the consoles are where the money is at for the developers. Your never going to see games take advantage of what the latest PC tech can do anymore because the consoles will always dictate what games come out and what parameters are set.


----------



## Zaru (Jan 25, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Not to be an elitist or anything, but the consoles are where the money is at for the developers. Your never going to see games take advantage of what the latest PC tech can do anymore because the consoles will always dictate what games come out and what parameters are set.



Absolutely true. The sales on multiplatform games speak for themselves - From a publisher's point of view, PC is the constantly whining platform that has the highest risk of piracy while also having the lowest sales for most big games, plus you need to optimize for various systems (instead of just one defined set of hardware per console). 

I'm mainly a PC gamer but I can see why people just don't want to go through the effort of optimizing for the PC.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 25, 2012)

My basic point is...when people see something like "6 times the power of current console generation technology" and groan, it should not be that way 

What your going to witness, is a significant jump over current console tech for a pretty low price the developers can afford. That's how i look at it.

Of course i'm not saying i believe these specs for a second until official confirmation


----------



## ExoSkel (Jan 25, 2012)

mystictrunks said:


> The WiiU already blows the 360 and PS3 out of the water. Its rough tech demos shit on the best looking games on both platforms.
> 
> The Xbox 3 and PS4 won't be much more powerful than the WiiU, no one will want to worry about all the heat issues that a more powerful system would cause.


Take that nintendo dick out of your mouth, son.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jan 25, 2012)

ExoSkel said:


> Take that nintendo dick out of your mouth, son.



It's the truth. In order to get something much more powerful than the components in the WiiU the PS4 and Xbox 3 would either have to be huge behemoths, make the ps3 look like a PS2 in comparison, or make more noise than a launch 360 in Saudi Arabia. IT would be doable but it would go against everything both companies have been trying to do this generation(M$ wanted more reliable hardware and Sony wants to make money, well both want to make money but you know what I mean)

Current rumors about the graphics cards both the WiiU and 360 will be using means there won't be much difference if both stories hold true. Also, M$ and Sony have been talking, in many interviews, abotu wanting their new hardware to be profitable near or at launch which means there will not be a PS2 to PS3 jump graphics wish


Also, the lighting, hair and cloth effects in the Zelda tech demo blow the best looking PS3 and 360 games out of the water on a technical level .


Edit: If you open up any console you'll see that as gaming has gone on, on average, the amount of space dedicated to cooling the system has increased significantly with the power. The fan in the 360 and PS# for example are massive compared tot he ones in a ps2 which were huge compared to the PS1 and N64's cooling elements. It's a big hurdle in making console sized devices.


----------



## dream (Jan 25, 2012)

> But that disc detail could be far less impactful to the next generation of game consoles than the assertion I've heard from one reliable industry source that Microsoft intends to incorporate some sort of anti-used game system as part of their so-called Xbox 720.
> 
> It's not clear if that means that the system wouldn't play used games or how such a set-up would work. Obvious approaches—I'm theorizing here—like linking a copy of a game to a specific Xbox Live account could seemingly be foiled by used-game owners who would keep their system offline. My source wasn't sure how Microsoft intended to implement any anti-used game system in the new machine.
> 
> A push in any way by Microsoft against used games would likely be cheered from publishers sick of seeing retailers like GameStop crow about their revenues from the sale of used games. But it could potentially anger consumers who rely on buying cheaply-sold used games or even pass games to relatives or friends.





Somehow I can see this rumor being a possibility.


----------



## Fraust (Jan 25, 2012)

What they don't realize is... a gamer rebellion will be in effect if there are no more pre-owned games.


Unless they actually start making good, long games that are worth full price.


----------



## dream (Jan 25, 2012)

I doubt that gamers will "rebel", instead they will take it up the ass.  In any case it won't be the end of the world, there aren't any used games on Steam and that hasn't been a problem.  Of course Steam has a lot of epic sales that the new Xbox won't have at all.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 25, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> I doubt that gamers will "rebel", instead they will take it up the ass.  In any case it won't be the end of the world, there aren't any used games on Steam and that hasn't been a problem.  Of course Steam has a lot of epic sales that the new Xbox won't have at all.


 probably gamers will.. and wtf I feel like your signature is trolling me.


----------



## LMJ (Jan 25, 2012)

IUUUUUUUUUUUU


----------



## dream (Jan 25, 2012)

I'm sure that we'll get a few petitions, assuming that this rumor is true, but when it comes to videogames I doubt their effectiveness.  MW2 has quite a pretty impressive petition but it didn't stop many of the signers from getting the game and nothing was done to address the problems that the people, who supported the petition, had.  But I could be underestimating gamers.


----------



## Fiona (Jan 25, 2012)

it would never work, not only would they lose console sells they would lose out on new games as well. 


quite a few gamers count on the money from their old games to afford the new ones. 


That would also completely eliminate the try-then-buy attitude that most gamers have. 


Im not shelling out 60 bucks unless i know for a fact i like it.


----------



## ShadowReij (Jan 25, 2012)

That just wouldn't happen, the premise is entirely rediculous. What would you do with all the perfectly good condition games that people return if they don't like or are just done with? I doubt Microsoft will ever find an increase in revenue this way.


----------



## Krory (Jan 25, 2012)

People are still buying into "SUPER SECRET SOURCES!" bullshit?


----------



## Gnome (Jan 25, 2012)

Krory said:


> People are still buying into "SUPER SECRET SOURCES!" bullshit?



My brothers friends third cousins neighbors roomates uncle works at Microsoft so I would know.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 25, 2012)

Krory said:


> People are still buying into "SUPER SECRET SOURCES!" bullshit?


 01NET said hi...


----------



## ExoSkel (Jan 25, 2012)

LOL, if the next gen consoles are used-game locked. Then the only one that suffers from this is Gamestop.

Good riddance...


----------



## Zaru (Jan 25, 2012)

Fiona said:


> Im not shelling out 60 bucks unless i know for a fact i like it.



I'm not shelling out 60 bucks, period. Well that's 60-70 euro actually, which is even more. BECAUSE ACCORDING TO EUROPEAN PUBLISHERS, EURO = DOLLAR

If I wait a year, Amazon UK will have the game dirt cheap, and I'm only missing out on peak multiplayer activity (unimportant to me), while possibly getting free DLCs due to GOTY editions and whatnot.


----------



## Corruption (Jan 25, 2012)

ExoSkel said:


> LOL, if the next gen consoles are used-game locked. Then the only one that suffers from this is Gamestop.
> 
> Good riddance...



I doubt that's going to happen. If it did, it would essentially kill Gamefly, which would suck.


----------



## God Hand (Jan 25, 2012)

Zaru said:


> I'm not shelling out 60 bucks, period.



This.....I'm not a teenager living at home anymore, I can't afford to drop 60 bones for each game I want.

I think a move to block used games would be bad business, especially if America and countries in Europe don't manage to get out of their financial slumps for the next decade.

Still, they are corporations, and we consumers are the asshole they rape...


----------



## Krory (Jan 25, 2012)

ExoSkel said:


> LOL, if the next gen consoles are used-game locked. Then the only one that suffers from this is Gamestop.
> 
> Good riddance...



And GameFly.

I fucking love GameFly.

Not to mention everyone is selling used games now.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 25, 2012)

I love Gamefly too, sucks that the tiny mail boxes at my dorm can't fit shit.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 25, 2012)

Just make old games virtual cheap simple and easy solution.
I mean it's not like you were making money with them all of the old copies have been sold or are just sitting there.
Sell me FF7 for 1$ okay sure and the even older games for like 30 cents put gamestop out of business.
I mean it sounds like a good idea once all physical copies are no longer in production and nearly all sold.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 25, 2012)

I think physical copies should always exist, much like books.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 25, 2012)

Gnome said:


> I think physical copies should always exist, much like books.



Aye but these are disks we are dealing with most of the time.
Physical copies don't age well in gaming or survive even in cartridge form.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 25, 2012)

I want my games to come on like a cool little thumb drive, that's the dream right there.


----------



## Fraust (Jan 25, 2012)

I want to swallow a pill with the game installed on it. It becomes programmed into my nerves and then my high-tech, nerve-sensing controller can then start the game which is chosen by thought.

Oh, and there's no system. Just a controller. An xbox controller of course.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 25, 2012)

Fraust said:


> I want to swallow a pill with the game installed on it. It becomes programmed into my nerves and then my high-tech, nerve-sensing controller can then start the game which is chosen by thought.
> 
> Oh, and there's no system. Just a controller. An xbox controller of course.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 25, 2012)

Blue pill like a fucking boss.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 25, 2012)

Rumors are everywhere these days 

I call bullshit on everything


----------



## dream (Jan 25, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Rumors are everywhere these days
> 
> I call bullshit on everything



I'm gullible enough to believe almost every rumor.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 25, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> I'm gullible enough to believe almost every rumor.



I heard a nasty rumor that you have an evil twin trying to kill you.


----------



## Shirker (Jan 25, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> I heard a nasty rumor that you have an evil twin trying to kill you.



SHHH, dammit.


----------



## dream (Jan 25, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> I heard a nasty rumor that you have an evil twin trying to kill you.



Oh come on, you didn't even try to make it convincing. smh


----------



## Shirker (Jan 25, 2012)

Yeah, Ranger. You're such a loser.

*cough*


----------



## Krory (Jan 26, 2012)

TrueAchievements (XBox 360 website) comments on their lack of posting the 720 rumors (the same reason they held back on RE6 rumors - because it's all a crock of shit):



> Ladies and gentlemen of TA, I am not a professional journalist. No Newshound does this job for money as we are all unpaid volunteers whom do not even get to keep copies of any games brought to us for review. Despite our amateur credentials, we hold ourselves to a very high standard of journalism. We want you to trust what we report as news; even rumors should have a firm basis in reality. We will not sensationalize news or events for the purpose of driving up page counts, or getting quoted by as many other sites as possible.
> 
> One of the ways that we attempt to achieve this standard is waiting to post stories. Once we feel we have all the important, pertinent information we will move forward and post the story with the appropriate [RUMOR] in the headline. A great example of this was the recent Resident Evil 6 reveal. Our method of handling rumors and speculation resulted in a turn around from [RUMOR] to "Here's the trailer!" in just 45 minutes. We want you to feel that anything, even rumors, posted here at TA has been sourced and verified to the very best of our ability.
> 
> ...


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 26, 2012)

Did we really need some guy on a soapbox to let us know that?  these sites do it for hits, until we get actual information, its all shit


----------



## Krory (Jan 26, 2012)

"Y 4 IS GUY SPEEKIN LOGICLY INSTED OF POSTIN RUMORS?!"


----------



## Gnome (Jan 26, 2012)

Its not even rumors so much as straight bullshit.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 26, 2012)

your enjoying this arent you


----------



## dream (Jan 26, 2012)

He certainly is enjoying it.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 26, 2012)

I personally think IGN has been the worst out of all of them  They were the first one to post it "according to their official sources" that everyone else picked up on, and now just look at their homepage articles. 

All infested with absurd shit that is not even proven


----------



## Gnome (Jan 26, 2012)

Game "journalism" at its finest.


----------



## dream (Jan 26, 2012)

I personally enjoy the rumors and the entertaining discussion they bring.


----------



## Krory (Jan 26, 2012)

It grows less entertaining when people believe it.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 26, 2012)

Its easier to go jack off.


----------



## Fraust (Jan 26, 2012)

I do like the entertainment discussion... as long as people understand it is just that.

Hearing crybabies "Wut? Fuk it, im goin bak 2 N64" when half the shit they read isn't true is when it's not fun anymore.


----------



## Shirker (Jan 26, 2012)

True, there's kinda nothing wrong with speculation as long as it's speculation, otherwise I'm not sure what the hell would be discussed in this thread.


----------



## Corruption (Jan 26, 2012)

Gnome said:


> Its not even rumors so much as straight bullshit.



Pretty much. 

Although, I think it'll support Bluray. That's if MS wants to keep their stance that it is an entertainment system.


----------



## Krory (Jan 26, 2012)

Shirker said:


> True, there's kinda nothing wrong with speculation as long as it's speculation, otherwise I'm not sure what the hell would be discussed in this thread.



But it's not even speculation.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 26, 2012)

Darkness_Surrounding said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> Although, I think it'll support Bluray. That's if MS wants to keep their stance that it is an entertainment system.



I'm thinking that it won't and will instead use a modified HDDVD disk format to play games.

Microsoft already has DVR and Netflix on lock, as well as going down the path of streaming live TV networks, so deciding to license blu ray instead of using their own in house tech is a bit unlikely.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 26, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I'm thinking that it won't and will instead use a modified HDDVD disk format to play games.
> 
> Microsoft already has DVR and Netflix on lock, so deciding to license blu ray instead of using their own in house tech is a bit unlikely.



I have to agree, I don't think Blu-ray will persist that strongly in the future.


----------



## Fraust (Jan 26, 2012)

X-ray. Coining it.






oh wait.


----------



## dream (Jan 26, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I'm thinking that it won't and will instead use a modified HDDVD disk format to play games.



Actually I don't think that they will use a modified HD DVD disk format to play games partly because they discontinued their HD DVD drive add-on for the 360.  Microsoft has given up on the format and will instead use the Blu-ray format in my opinion.  Otherwise it wouldn't make much sense since people won't be able to play Blu-ray disks on the new console and I'm pretty sure that Microsoft wants to position the console as an all-in-one media device and that means being able to play Blu-ray movies.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 27, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Actually I don't think that they will use a modified HD DVD disk format to play games partly because they discontinued their HD DVD drive add-on for the 360.  Microsoft has given up on the format and will instead use the Blu-ray format in my opinion.  Otherwise it wouldn't make much sense since people won't be able to play Blu-ray disks on the new console and I'm pretty sure that Microsoft wants to position the console as an all-in-one media device and that means being able to play Blu-ray movies.



Well ,we'll see. For me it doesn't make any sense why Microsoft would bother to license a tech they were competing with in order to play Blu rays when blu ray sales aren't anywhere near as impressive to warrant such a licensing. That and Microsoft has already decided on going through streaming technology for TV channels, meaning that blu ray really doesn't matter much.  And you know that it also doesn't matter if they discontinued external HDDVD drives in the past, if they really wanted to design the tech into the system itself and revive the disks for games usage specifically.


----------



## Axl Low (Jan 27, 2012)

DUKE NUKEM FOREVER NEVER CAME OUT

I AM STILL WAITING FO THE REAL DUKE NUKEM FOREVER
NOT THIS TROLL VERSION


----------



## Mickey Mouse (Jan 27, 2012)

Sorry Axl Low...not even Yuma can sweep all that bullshit away.


----------



## Darth (Jan 27, 2012)

lol so true.


----------



## Linkdarkside (Jan 27, 2012)

*New Xbox said to be six times as powerful as the Xbox 360*
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/xbox-said-six-times-powerful-xbox-360-220534201.html


----------



## Gnome (Jan 27, 2012)

It just links out to IGN as the source, it's not very reliable information.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 27, 2012)

Don't trust IGN  everyone gets that shit from IGN, but until Microsoft even announces their next generation, its all bullshit


----------



## mystictrunks (Jan 27, 2012)

It isn't necessarily bullshit. Unnamed sources shouldn't automatically be disregarded and I think IGN, when it comes to hardware news, has been pretty reliable in the past. 

M$ has been working on their next gen hardware for wellover a year now, you can tell from job ads they've placed and a few LinkedIn profiles. So the spec of the new Xbox should be pretty set in stone by now.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 27, 2012)

"IGN have been pretty reliable in the past"

bullshit 


We have literally zero information. We have just as much info on the specs of the Wii U, which is also zero 

Last i heard the Wii U dev kits had roughly about double the power of 360, and now we've apparently somehow gotten word that its now 5 times more powerful.

Its all junk


----------



## Axl Low (Jan 27, 2012)

VastoLorDae said:


> Sorry Axl Low...not even Yuma can sweep all that bullshit away.





Darth said:


> lol so true.




leave me to my sadness D:


----------



## Sotei (Jan 27, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> "IGN have been pretty reliable in the past"
> 
> bullshit
> 
> ...




Well, if you've been following anything related to the WU then you'd know that Nintendo actually had two different dev kits out at the same time. One of the Dev kits was somewhat lower specced while the other was a lot more powerful. I'm guessing they had two at different specs to see which one developers liked better.

The latest dev kits seem to be the final dev kits... for now, and those were rumored to be a lot more powerful then expected. Going by this it's understandable that some rumors claim that the WU is only 2 times as powerful, while others say 5 times or more.

Either way, I think Nintendo will keep tweaking the dev kits till the last minute.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jan 27, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> "IGN have been pretty reliable in the past"
> 
> bullshit
> 
> ...



Dev kits go through multiple revisions.


----------



## dream (Jan 27, 2012)

I don't trust the numbers at all but I do take it as an indication that the Wii U is far more powerful than the PS3/360 and that's all I really need to hear.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 28, 2012)

I understand what both of you are saying, i also heard that they were testing 700 MB ram carts and 1 GB ram carts at the same time 

Even so, i find a lot of the information perplexing


----------



## dream (Jan 28, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I understand what both of you are saying, i also heard that they were testing 700 MB ram carts and 1 GB ram carts at the same time
> 
> Even so, i find a lot of the information perplexing



Ah yes, those two dev kits were basically to see which one would suit their needs more.  Apparently the 1GB kit won or at least an improved version of it did. 

It certainly doesn't help that people make mistakes when reporting stuff.  I remember when a report suggested that the Wii U would have 786 MBs of EDRAM which is ludicrous.


----------



## LMJ (Jan 30, 2012)

Lol today Microsoft says this.



Then right after Sony said this.



Lawls.


----------



## Krory (Jan 30, 2012)

>IGN
>Hardware
>Reliable

You do realize IGN said last year, the PS4 and XBox 720 would be announced, right?

And the year before that? They said Wii U would be given a price at E3. They also said it would be called "The Nintendo." Then they said price and possible release by the end of 2011. They also said the 360 would have the Kinect built into it by the end of 2011.

They also bought onto the whole "Microsoft Handheld" phenom, as well... you remember that?

IGN's "Super Secret Reliable Sources" are a bum that they give a finsky to when they're out of ideas and need to pull something out of their ass. They have the accuracy rate of a Magic 8 Ball. They do more speculation than people predicting the rapture.


----------



## LMJ (Jan 30, 2012)

I was referring to the response that Microsoft France put up.


----------



## Krory (Jan 30, 2012)

Considering you didn't say IGN was reliable about hardware, I'd have figured you could've deduced that it wasn't about you. Only one person has.

>Common sense


----------



## mystictrunks (Jan 30, 2012)

Krory said:


> >IGN
> >Hardware
> >Reliable
> 
> ...



I suppose I should have said that they're reliable about hardware specs. Which is easy to predict anyway once you know when development starts to go fullswing.


----------



## dream (Jan 30, 2012)

Lee Min Jung said:


> Lol today Microsoft says this.



Wait...people actually thought that the next Xbox would be released this year?


----------



## Kaitou (Jan 30, 2012)

Why would someone think the new xbox would be released this year?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 30, 2012)

there was a "rumor"(aka bullshit) about the 360 being announced at E3 and launching this year 

I think it would be common sense to assume something from E3, but to have a console launch the same year its announced it ridiculous


----------



## LMJ (Jan 30, 2012)

Basically what Inuhanyou said.


----------



## Krory (Jan 30, 2012)

Kaitou said:


> Why would someone think the new xbox would be released this year?



Because some idiots think IGN is reliable.


----------



## Tsukiyo (Jan 30, 2012)

i dont want sony to make a ps4...not until they get certain shit done with the ps3


----------



## Krory (Jan 30, 2012)

That certain shit will never be done.


----------



## blakstealth (Jan 30, 2012)

Tsukiyo said:


> i dont want sony to make a ps4...not until they get certain shit done with the ps3


durr not enough ram durr


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 30, 2012)

unfortunately sony is in a "fucked if i do/don't" position right now.

They need to somehow keep this console generation going as long as possible so they can eventually break even on the losses they took from their disastrous PS3 launch. But if they don't come out with a next gen console(when they do, they'll be even deeper in the red), then microsoft's new unit will take up the market share and PS3 will fall behind regardless with even more shoddy ports than already seen.


----------



## Krory (Jan 30, 2012)

Actually, Sony apparently just broke even this past year if I recall. Finally made up for everything.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 30, 2012)

Nope, still in the red


----------



## Krory (Jan 30, 2012)

That has nothing to do with the PS3. They made a turn-around for the PS3 in 2010, until the PSN debaucle. That article has to do with the other branches of Sony.


----------



## dream (Jan 30, 2012)

Krory said:


> That has nothing to do with the PS3. They made a turn-around for the PS3 in 2010, until the PSN debaucle. That article has to do with the other branches of Sony.



They started making a profit on each unit of the PS3 back in mid-2010 but I'm not sure if they could have recovered from all the losses it had.  I've read reports that they were losing $130 on each console sold back in 2008.  Maybe in another year or two they might recover all the losses they had.

Sony would be foolish to take such losses again.


----------



## Krory (Jan 30, 2012)

I never said they _made up_ for it. Just that they started making a profit.

They'll probably never fully recover especially after PSN.


----------



## Kaitou (Jan 30, 2012)

Krory said:


> Because some* idiots* think *IGN* is *reliable*.




Not surprised.


----------



## dream (Jan 30, 2012)

Krory said:


> They'll probably never fully recover especially after PSN.



How much did the PSN debacle cost them?


----------



## Krory (Jan 30, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> How much did the PSN debacle cost them?



It actually cost them about 171 million dollars last I checked. For the year they were estimating, at that point, a 3.2 billion dollar _loss_ for the year.

Not sure what it turned out to be.


----------



## NeoKurama (Jan 30, 2012)

Ain't getting rid of my 3.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 30, 2012)

When i say "make up losses" krory, you should know that i mean getting out of the red, not "making a profit" on each console sold. This generation hurt them,and they are desperate to get back what they've lost


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 30, 2012)

So what happened on the PS3 launch (besides the ridiculouse $600 price) that caused Sony to lose alot?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 30, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> unfortunately sony is in a "fucked if i do/don't" position right now.
> 
> They need to somehow keep this console generation going as long as possible so they can eventually break even on the losses they took from their disastrous PS3 launch. But if they don't come out with a next gen console(when they do, they'll be even deeper in the red), then microsoft's new unit will take up the market share and PS3 will fall behind regardless with even more shoddy ports than already seen.


 and Nintendo Wii U checkmate move.. Wii U is forcing a lot of stuff right now.


----------



## Deleted member 183504 (Jan 30, 2012)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> So what happened on the PS3 launch (besides the ridiculouse $600 price) that caused Sony to lose alot?



I'd guess the lack of games, so people weren't buying. Hell I remember playing PS2 games because I got bored of the 5-6 games I had when I first got it, lol.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 30, 2012)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> So what happened on the PS3 launch (besides the ridiculouse $600 price) that caused Sony to lose alot?



They went for the most expensive and complex components to use in PS3 in order to maximize product shelf life(10 years), hoping that that would make up for blowing so much money on it. They were wrong and they lost a lot of the profit they made on the PS2 virtually overnight due to the weaker than expected PS3 launch(a lack of titles for atleast 6 months to a year leading to the moniker "PS3 has no games".

Unfortunately their PS3 plan also caused them to loose a substantial sum of money on every console manufactured and sold for quite some time due to the components used inside of it. 2006 to late 2010 if i recall.

It put their net average pretty low, and they have still not been able to get back into a healthy position even today. 

The reason why i say they are in a bind is that they are not in a great position right now, and making another console at another loss, would only drag them down with further losses, especially after blowing a lot of money on the VITA just recently. That's why they don't want to think about the next generation right now. But they are going to have to.


----------



## Krory (Jan 30, 2012)

Not to mention all the exclusives Sony _could_ have had if they weren't so super-secretive.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jan 30, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> there was a "rumor"(aka bullshit) about the 360 being announced at E3 and launching this year
> 
> I think it would be common sense to assume something from E3, but to have a console launch the same year its announced it ridiculous



It's happened before. IIRC with the Dreamcast, the DS and Saturn.

Sony blew the PS3 because the PS3 was too expensive and because Nintendo and M$ out marketed them. Once the price dropped they just couldn't make a good set of commercials to save their life.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 30, 2012)

mystictrunks said:


> make a good set of commercials to save their life.



[YOUTUBE]tbW165G0Bvk[/YOUTUBE]
vs 
[YOUTUBE]g2nEHqGWsYM[/YOUTUBE]

Here are some old commercials from nintendo.
[YOUTUBE]v02WFh_Kdl0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## dream (Jan 30, 2012)

That baby commercial is creepy.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 30, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> That baby commercial is creepy.



Makes you want to buy the ps3 right?
I mean it's not like the ps3 wants to kill us all.
[YOUTUBE]7qamwVJaYW8[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]L0ET0gSewYM[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]0dpzhMMFk5U[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Fraust (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm the kinda guy that never listens to ads for shit on TV..


But Kevin Butler almost always makes me want to buy a PS3 or whatever game he's talking about.


----------



## dream (Jan 30, 2012)

Those are horrible commercials, they have nothing to do with gaming at all.  smh


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 30, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Those are horrible commercials, they have nothing to do with gaming at all.  smh




*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]JMAToK0OG0w[/YOUTUBE]



here's an xbox commercial.


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]qNuRQmvykwk[/YOUTUBE]



here's a banned one that is actually pretty awesome, but still doesn't tell you much.

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]StOJr2k5Y-U[/YOUTUBE]



Commercial for Asia apparently.

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]UJL33pdsCLM[/YOUTUBE]



Their advertising isn't that great either.

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]T_QLguHvACs[/YOUTUBE]



Still it's better than sony's by a long shot.


----------



## Skywalker (Jan 30, 2012)

Those commercials are just..wow.

Second Xbox one was nice, third was odd.


----------



## dream (Jan 30, 2012)

They all suck at advertising or more accurately they go brain dead at times.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 30, 2012)

Good commercials are like this.
[YOUTUBE]tS1q75CgXLA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 30, 2012)

lol I remember the PSP commercials.. those are horrible...



Gnome said:


> Good commercials are like this.
> [YOUTUBE]tS1q75CgXLA[/YOUTUBE]


 short and direct to the point.


----------



## Shirker (Jan 30, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> lol I remember the PSP commercials.. those are horrible...



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a10vdAZPxqU[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Sotei (Jan 30, 2012)

Nintendo beats them all at advertising, they got the Wu Tang Clan in one of their adds.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sfiTMybZTs[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 2, 2012)

Ruh roh  looks like Sony is in MAJOR problems now.


----------



## Spirit King (Feb 2, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Ruh roh  looks like Sony is in MAJOR problems now.



At this point I don't expect major powerhouse consoles from either Sony (unless their total idiots, which have proven time and time again) nor Microsoft. At this point their better off focusing on noticeable but very profitable from the get go consoles for the next gen. Besides this gen has been absolute murder for anything not AAA or completely indie.  I don't particularily want to see that trend continue.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 2, 2012)

They need to make their advertising not suck.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 2, 2012)

I don't believe any of the the rumors but it would definitely be smart to release a pared down console  Atleast in Sony's case.

Nintendo will probably also do so regardless(cause they have lost money too), although it doesn't take much to be stronger than current HD consoles.


Microsoft as a company lost money during this cycle as well, but at the same time, their console division has posted a 3.3 billion revenue increase with their last season being by far the best they've had since coming into the game business. Which for me means that they once again have the market advantage to put Sony in another tight spot.


----------



## Spirit King (Feb 2, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I don't believe any of the the rumors but it would definitely be smart to release a pared down console  Atleast in Sony's case.
> 
> Nintendo will probably also do so regardless(cause they have lost money too), although it doesn't take much to be stronger than current HD consoles.
> 
> ...



True but that really doesn't mean much. Being an uber graphics console only works when you two other competitors if you are either dominating the competition or have another console of comparable power. If the other competitors are cheaper and selling around the same as you which they most probably will unless there's another PS3 debacle 3rd parties will simply go for the consoles with the most comparable power and port between them. Being supremely powerful in comparison to your competitors can also be a disadvantage as it means any games not up to the graphical fidelity it's believed to be able to produce will be looked down up, making ports less likely if the two weaker consoles have a comparable market share to the stronger one. There's also increased costs that come with much more powerful hardware as your less likely to be able to reuse assets etc. 

Plus Microsoft doesn't want to lose money, it's Xbox division is under enough scrutiny as it is. If microsoft likes money which I'm sure they do they won't go for a super expensive hardware. Takes for example Sony with it's PS2 domination and absolute rapeage of the gamecube only came out with slightly more profits than Nintendo. Why because the DVD player inside the thing was super expensive which made those 150 millions sales not worth much.

Super expensive consoles are simply not sustainable and only Nintendo has seemed to have realised this.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 2, 2012)

Nintendo has always realized that, but that's only because they've never been in direct competition with anyone to care about what they were doing.

Everything else you said i am well aware of, my point is that Microsoft has the ammunition and Sony is the target


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 2, 2012)

*Microsoft says they're not competing with Nintendo, Nintendo in their own cycle*



> “We’re not here to counter Nintendo and they’re not here to fight the other manufacturers. Nintendo has put itself in a different cycle, they’re advancing at their own pace.” - Microsoft France’s Cedrick Delmas


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 2, 2012)

Nintendo is always off in its own little space, and that seems to work just fine for them  

*Nintendo says they are not competing with Microsoft or Sony, Nintendo in their own cycle*


----------



## Godot (Feb 2, 2012)

*Sony saying they are competing with both Microsoft & Nintendo, creating a 10-year cycle that encompasses everything.*


----------



## Spirit King (Feb 2, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Nintendo has always realized that, but that's only because they've never been in direct competition with anyone to care about what they were doing.



I wouldn't say that was true. Heck that was only true of the Wii, Snes had Saturn a real competitor, N64 had Ps1 got it's ass kicked gamecube had PS2 got it's ass kicked. They were all very much in direct competition. 

The reason why Nintendo has done so well and had never had a single full year loss until now despite being entirely a games company and getting it's ass kicked twice was their model is and will continue to be very stable and profitable. They have built up massive first party IP's the best in the world  and their consoles always sell for a profit or at least very close to break even. Come wind rain or shine Nintendo will always remain because they are the least dependent on external factors. Nintendo could come last next generation and still be fine though perhaps not amazingingly profitable, however if Sony or microsoft pulls those big power cards and it fails, that's massive losses right there.

Nintendo's been doing all along what Sony should have been doing. They were overwhelming market leaders twice and they did not have a single massively selling first party franchise to show for it. Their too dependet on competitors and the whims of 3rd parties hence the MH mess up in Japan.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 2, 2012)

What is Nintendo's strength is also their greatest weakness. They locked out a lot of gamers by being completely devoted to first party partitioning over all else, and now they are trying to get them back. But for me as i see it, its a fools errand with that tablet.


----------



## Spirit King (Feb 2, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> What is Nintendo's strength is also their greatest weakness. They locked out a lot of gamers by being completely devoted to first party partitioning over all else, and now they are trying to get them back. But for me as i see it, its a fools errand with that tablet.



True but they'll never fail because of it as even despite their weakness their still profitable. Sony aren't and haven't been for a loooong time. Microsoft's only starting.

Nintendo's currently has the money to buy that 3rd party support thanks to that strength that same can't be said for Sony.

TBF Sony as a whole is a freaking mess. I mean god Nintendo (solely a games company) is worth more than the entirity of Sony and has been so for a loong time. How the freaking hell did things get that bad.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 2, 2012)

Well maybe Sony just fell for its own hype machine  They got such a big head over their success in the PS2 era after all, the PS3 was supposed to be like the second coming of Jesus christ.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 2, 2012)

Sony is in trouble tho.. Vita is not going to save the company and reporting the net loses to 2Billions doesn't help..


----------



## dream (Feb 2, 2012)

Well, there goes any hope of the PS4 being quite a bit more powerful than the new Xbox unless Sony goes brain dead.  This console cycle is shaping up to be a pretty interesting cycle.


----------



## Gnome (Feb 6, 2012)

Brb, pirating Saints Row The Third.


----------



## Krory (Feb 6, 2012)

Good thing I'm only renting Darksiders II.


----------



## Gnome (Feb 6, 2012)

Once Darksiders II comes out I don't care what happens to THQ.


----------



## Gnome (Feb 6, 2012)

The way the industry works right now might fail, but gaming won't, it will just change. If there were a way to buy a game and have the money go to the developers then I would be happy.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 6, 2012)

I thing that the the second hand game market has a place in the industry these days.

Kill that, and people aren't going to be so willing to shell out the cash for a new game, which = much lower sales across the board

Not to mention, Volition's method would essentially mean DRM for consoles, having to be connected to the net to play your game to make sure it isn't second hand.

That technically means 40% of the console user base would be locked out of the games market.

Its not something Microsoft or Sony would be crazy enough to do.


----------



## Krory (Feb 6, 2012)

The "industry" found their solution, and it works - publishers and developers are both satisfied with the online pass and I support it. Gamers bitch because they need something to bitch about, but it still gives the companies a reasonable cut and smart and savvy gamers can still work a wonderful deal WITH the online pass (pick up a used game for 30 bucks, 10 for the online pass - you still saved yourself twenty. Simple math, kids).

Despite outcry it is really only causing a minimal amount of stir in comparison to what outright banning used games will accomplish - which is a metric shit-ton more pirating. If anything, _you_ want the industry to fail.

I just want THQ to fail because they're asking for it. The Witcher 2 was pirated _over_ four and a half million times compared to it's roughly one and a half million sales. If you ban used games or make them obsolete, that is what will happen to _every single game_.


----------



## Gnome (Feb 6, 2012)

I still don't like the idea of online pass. I think publishers will keep pushing for more restrictions if they can. Atm, I don't ever bother with online pass content, but I still don't trust publishers.


----------



## Fraust (Feb 6, 2012)

I'm sticking to single-player games. 

Online games are becoming less interesting as the years go by anyway. I miss 2007.


----------



## Gnome (Feb 6, 2012)

I always at least try out multiplayer for a day or 2 but never stick with it.


----------



## Krory (Feb 6, 2012)

Gnome said:


> I still don't like the idea of online pass. I think publishers will keep pushing for more restrictions if they can. Atm, I don't ever bother with online pass content, but I still don't trust publishers.



Of course they'll push for more restrictions, because gamers are too self-entitled. They buy games for ten dollars that were sixty because they feel that they deserve the game more than the developer and publisher deserves the money. It's sixty dollars, I'm not going to try and cheat people out of one, two, three, five, seven years they spent working on something.

As TJ Fixman said, "I'd prefer to be paid after working on something for three years, thanks." And as much as people may hate them, right now online passes are a relatively harmless and still cost-efficient way to help that problem.


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## Gnome (Feb 6, 2012)

Don't approve. It's still a negative way to go about things. A system of reward for buying a game would be much more appealing, instead locking out content (which is what an online pass is for all intents and purposes). Nobody wants to feel like they're being screwed for not spending $60. They'd rather feel rewarded for when they do spend $60.


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## Krory (Feb 6, 2012)

Gnome said:


> Don't approve. It's still a negative way to go about things. A system of reward for buying a game would be much more appealing, instead locking out content (which is what an online pass is for all intents and purposes). Nobody wants to feel like they're being screwed for not spending $60. They'd rather feel rewarded for when they do spend $60.



That's done as well. But it still isn't working because that won't stop pirates since that extra content can still be pirated. And people have a thin-line between what's "extra" and what they're being punished for. Have you seen most arguments for extra things put into games? _Everyone_ automatically assumes, "So I get this bonus weapon and character and three missions for buying the game new. But they're in the game. So why didn't you just put them in the game in the first place? Why do I have to buy it NEW to get these items that are in the game? I can just wait until the DLC comes out later and get it for cheaper."

Developers and publishers tried to play nice, but as I said... gamers will find anything to bitch about and turn a gift into a punishment. We're in a day and age where anything that is MEANT to be extra is automatically assumed to be content that was supposed to be there all along but simply "held back." There is no "nice" way of doing this, no middle ground, because the consumer is - again - too damn self-entitled.


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## dream (Feb 6, 2012)

If consoles could focus heavily on digital distribution system, have the games available on it be cheaper, and offer awesome sales like Steam does then I think that a no used game policy wouldn't matter so much.  But that's a dream that seems impossible.


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## Sotei (Feb 6, 2012)

Gnome said:


> Once Darksiders II comes out I don't care what happens to THQ.



So no Darksiders III then? You don't care if that story never gets finished?



Gnome said:


> The way the industry works right now might fail, but gaming won't, it will just change. If there were a way to buy a game and have the money go to the developers then I would be happy.




This is happening as we speak, did you not read that article posted? The next Xbox might not allow used games and if the industry as a whole moves into the down load only model, all the money will go to the gaming companies, console creators and developers. This is inevitable, it will happen and prices might... might come down since no physical media will be involved.

To say fuck these guys for wanting to make money on a product is kind'a silly, they're just trying to make enough money to make a profit. Used game sales, piracy and all that other shit just slows down the process of making that profit. If the profits aren't coming, you can't get to work on your next game, especially when you had planned to make a block buster.


Nintedo has a nice idea when it comes to the WU, they want prices to vary, if a game doesn't have huge production costs then price it cheaper. They're already doing this with their own games. As an example; "Rhythm Heaven Fever", it'll be out for $29.99, not $49.99. Maybe other developers will take a cue from Nintendo and follow in that model. There are certainly games that have come out that aren't worth $60, like the last "Splinter Cell".


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## Krory (Feb 6, 2012)

>MFW XBox 360 and PS3 also have "budget" titles and day-one price cuts.

 OH YEAH. WII U/NINTENDO IS PAVING THE WAY FOR THIS BRAND NEW IDEA... THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS.


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## Gnome (Feb 6, 2012)

Venetica, Majin and the Forsaken Kingdom for example, and All HD collections are already priced below regular RSP.


Eternal Goob said:


> If consoles could focus heavily on digital distribution system, have the games available on it be cheaper, and offer awesome sales like Steam does then I think that a no used game policy wouldn't matter so much.  But that's a dream that seems impossible.



This is what I think needs to happen, essentially. And I don't think its impossible at all.


Krory said:


> That's done as well. But it still isn't working because that won't stop pirates since that extra content can still be pirated. And people have a thin-line between what's "extra" and what they're being punished for. Have you seen most arguments for extra things put into games? _Everyone_ automatically assumes, "So I get this bonus weapon and character and three missions for buying the game new. But they're in the game. So why didn't you just put them in the game in the first place? Why do I have to buy it NEW to get these items that are in the game? I can just wait until the DLC comes out later and get it for cheaper."
> 
> Developers and publishers tried to play nice, but as I said... gamers will find anything to bitch about and turn a gift into a punishment. We're in a day and age where anything that is MEANT to be extra is automatically assumed to be content that was supposed to be there all along but simply "held back." There is no "nice" way of doing this, no middle ground, because the consumer is - again - too damn self-entitled.


I realize that, I've seen it argued a lot. It's not impossible though to give something to someone without making it seem like you're taking from others though. A good example would be both Skyward Sword and Bastion giving you a soundtrack.


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## Ciupy (Feb 6, 2012)

Krory said:


> *Saint's Row Developer Says No Used Games On XBox 720 Would Be Awesome... Explaining Why THQ Is The Closest To Going Under*



Holy shit what a massive cunt..and a moron to boot.


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## Krory (Feb 6, 2012)

A soundtrack that everyone will just end up pirating anyway because music is the easiest thing to steal.

Hell, I got the ME2 soundtrack AND I STILL PIRATED IT. I'll be getting a digital version with my ME3 N7 Edition... AND I'LL PROBABLY STILL PIRATE IT. People steal music just because they can. We're all kleptomaniacs. These solutions sound easy but people want to make trouble just for the sake of making trouble and unfortunately I don't foresee anything ever changing that.

Not to mention on the topic of soundtracks, there are still a lot of unfortunate souls who don't believe in music in video games and wouldn't find soundtracks to be "worth it."

@Ciupy - I can't get over the impression that you possibly mean I'm a massive cunt and a moron. It wouldn't surprise me and I wouldn't exactly disagree.


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## Sotei (Feb 6, 2012)

Krory said:


> >MFW XBox 360 and PS3 also have "budget" titles and day-one price cuts.
> 
> OH YEAH. WII U/NINTENDO IS PAVING THE WAY FOR THIS BRAND NEW IDEA... THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS.




On consoles? For brand new games? I'd like to see these games you speak of and if they're worth buying. I ain't talking about "Players Choice" "Platinum Hits" or "Greatest Hits", I'm talking about brand new games that come out at an initially low price. A low price that's dictated by production costs.


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## Ciupy (Feb 6, 2012)

Krory said:


> @Ciupy - I can't get over the impression that you possibly mean I'm a massive cunt and a moron. It wouldn't surprise me and I wouldn't exactly disagree.




It's the Volition developer I deemed a "cunt and a moron"..

But still dude:



*



			Of course they'll push for more restrictions, because gamers are too self-entitled. They buy games for ten dollars that were sixty because they feel that they deserve the game more than the developer and publisher deserves the money. It's sixty dollars, I'm not going to try and cheat people out of one, two, three, five, seven years they spent working on something.

As TJ Fixman said, "I'd prefer to be paid after working on something for three years, thanks." And as much as people may hate them, right now online passes are a relatively harmless and still cost-efficient way to help that problem.
		
Click to expand...

*



Are you serious?


If you buy anything,you own it,and short of making copies of it and selling them,you can do whatever you please with it.

That's a basic right for owners.

The producers already get a cut on the first sale.

What happens after that isn't their business.


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## Krory (Feb 6, 2012)

The Cursed Crusade was to be released on the 360 and PS3 for only 39.99. Both games also received a temporary ten dollars off when it was first released - on the very day, bumping it down to 29.99 - 360's version went back up but PS3's discount was permanent. New copies of the game are now even cheaper than that (only 19.99).

X-Men Destiny released for only 49.99 on both systems and quickly went down to 39.99.

Silent Hill HD Collection for both is releasing at only 49.99.

Get with the program.


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## dream (Feb 6, 2012)

> This is what I think needs to happen, essentially. And I don't think its impossible at all.



I think that retailers will raise a massive fuss once DD versions of console games start being cheaper, on day 1, than physical copies sold at retailers.  Pretty sure than a lot of games will take the DD route since it'll be cheaper.  At that point retailers will probably feel "threatened" and will proceed to strong-arm console makers by refusing to carry the consoles.  Pretty sure that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo wouldn't want that at all.


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## Gnome (Feb 6, 2012)

Krory said:


> A soundtrack that everyone will just end up pirating anyway because music is the easiest thing to steal.
> 
> Hell, I got the ME2 soundtrack AND I STILL PIRATED IT. I'll be getting a digital version with my ME3 N7 Edition... AND I'LL PROBABLY STILL PIRATE IT. People steal music just because they can. We're all kleptomaniacs. These solutions sound easy but people want to make trouble just for the sake of making trouble and unfortunately I don't foresee anything ever changing that.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you just have a problem with people. Go ahead and look on the cynical side, but I don't think a solid solution is out of the question. If anything this "issue" arouse from an over-saturated market rather than an "everybody is a pirate twat".


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## Krory (Feb 6, 2012)

Ciupy said:


> Are you serious?
> 
> 
> If you buy anything,you own it,and short of making copies of it and selling them,you can do whatever you please with it.
> ...



Yeah I'm serious. As an OWNER, I buy games to SUPPORT people. I know if I buy them used that I'm not doing that at all. Online passes are a way of supporting said developer because twenty to thirty people are buying a game that is only counting as one sale for them and in the end it's the _developers_ that are getting shafted because the publishers take their lump sum no matter the overall sale number. People think they're "sticking it to the man" but what they're doing is actually hurting the hard-working people. They're the ones getting the lower paychecks because of used games - not EA or Activision or THQ. If there's more sales, they'll make more money, yes - but it's the developers that are LOSING money.


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## Ciupy (Feb 6, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> I think that retailers will raise a massive fuss once DD versions of console games start being cheaper, on day 1, than physical copies sold at retailers.  Pretty sure than a lot of games will take the DD route since it'll be cheaper.  At that point retailers will probably feel "threatened" and will proceed to strong-arm console makers by refusing to carry the consoles.  Pretty sure that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo wouldn't want that at all.



If you want to see what a future digital content-only model of business would look like in which you can't have used sales,just look at Steam until now.

There's a reason many PC players often go "I will wait until the X PC-game is on a sale,or an offer or whatever until I buy it".

Only the blockbuster titles will end up being bought day-one and it will leave all the other middle and bottom-range titles and the people who make them in the dust.


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## Krory (Feb 6, 2012)

Gnome said:


> Sounds like you just have a problem with people.



Of course I have a problem with people. People suck. We're all morons.




> Go ahead and look on the cynical side, but I don't think a solid solution is out of the question.



It's utopian. It's in the human nature to complain and the idea that _everyone_ would be in agreement is implausible and irrational. 




> If anything this "issue" arouse from an over-saturated market rather than an "everybody is a pirate twat".



I think it's both.


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## Ciupy (Feb 6, 2012)

Krory said:


> Yeah I'm serious. As an OWNER, I buy games to SUPPORT people. I know if I buy them used that I'm not doing that at all. Online passes are a way of supporting said developer because twenty to thirty people are buying a game that is only counting as one sale for them and in the end it's the _developers_ that are getting shafted because the publishers take their lump sum no matter the overall sale number. People think they're "sticking it to the man" but what they're doing is actually hurting the hard-working people. They're the ones getting the lower paychecks because of used games - not EA or Activision or THQ. If there's more sales, they'll make more money, yes - but it's the developers that are LOSING money.



There is no "sticking it to the man" here.

No reactionary attitude.

Just the simple fact that games are just another product that people do buy and most importantly own.

They are not special and I just can't see  why you think they are exempt from following the basic owner's rights.

If you wanted to sell your Brand-Name PC monitor right now,should the Brand-Name PC monitor-making company have a cut of the sale as well since,you know,it cuts into their profits?


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## Spirit King (Feb 6, 2012)

Krory said:


> Yeah I'm serious. As an OWNER, I buy games to SUPPORT people. I know if I buy them used that I'm not doing that at all. Online passes are a way of supporting said developer because twenty to thirty people are buying a game that is only counting as one sale for them and in the end it's the _developers_ that are getting shafted because the publishers take their lump sum no matter the overall sale number. People think they're "sticking it to the man" but what they're doing is actually hurting the hard-working people. They're the ones getting the lower paychecks because of used games - not EA or Activision or THQ. If there's more sales, they'll make more money, yes - but it's the developers that are LOSING money.



It's not as simple as that. Almost all these companies are Plc's, with most of them probably paying dividends. Dividends are a share of the profits depending on how much stock you own in the company. Stocks are money sources used to run the company If they sell less they pay out less dividends, which makes them less attractive to potenial and current stock owners in comparison to other companies, making them more likely to sell and so go to another company, which will damage the company. Either they give out the same dividends and cut out the cost, or the dividends drops, as does the share prices, either way the company get's screwed, now like you said sometimes the developers get the brunt of this, but those at the top aren't impervious either. Their positions are dictated by the share holders and chosen by a vote so if the company loses money they could also get the sack.

These companies are run by the shareholders and your money is valuable to them regardless of the level they are in within the company.


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## Gnome (Feb 6, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> I think that retailers will raise a massive fuss once DD versions of console games start being cheaper, on day 1, than physical copies sold at retailers.  Pretty sure than a lot of games will take the DD route since it'll be cheaper.  At that point retailers will probably feel "threatened" and will proceed to strong-arm console makers by refusing to carry the consoles.  Pretty sure that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo wouldn't want that at all.


Physical copy retailers will be a non factor in the future I think. Just look at books.



Krory said:


> Of course I have a problem with people. People suck. We're all morons.
> 
> It's utopian. It's in the human nature to complain and the idea that _everyone_ would be in agreement is implausible and irrational.
> 
> I think it's both.


Of course its impossible to get everyone to agree on something (other than we all like air or something) but it would be good enough to get most people on board of a good idea. Look at Steam, its like the chocolate sexy fun time of examples.


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## Sotei (Feb 6, 2012)

Krory said:


> The Cursed Crusade was to be released on the 360 and PS3 for only 39.99. Both games also received a temporary ten dollars off when it was first released - on the very day, bumping it down to 29.99 - 360's version went back up but PS3's discount was permanent. New copies of the game are now even cheaper than that (only 19.99).
> 
> X-Men Destiny released for only 49.99 on both systems and quickly went down to 39.99.
> 
> ...




You don't seem to understand, *Nintendo* wants varied pricing for the WU. Those games you mentioned weren't cheaper because MS and SONY asked these developers to release them at a lower price. There's a big difference when a console maker suggests to developers to think about varied prices for their future games.

I think we can all agree that every game that's been released isn't worth $60. I'd be more willing to drop $40 on a 10 hour game, then $60. One game that immediately comes to mind is "Asura's Wrath", no way would I drop $60 for that game... $30, $40... yeah sure, I'd pay that.


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## Gnome (Feb 6, 2012)

Who cares if its "Nintendo". At the end of the day its all up to the publisher really.


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## dream (Feb 6, 2012)

> If you want to see what a future digital content-only model of business would look like in which you can't have used sales,just look at Steam until now.
> 
> There's a reason many PC players often go "I will wait until the X PC-game is on a sale,or an offer or whatever until I buy it".
> 
> Only the blockbuster titles will end up being bought day-one and it will leave all the other middle and bottom-range titles and the people who make them in the dust.



That's certainly true, I've waited for sales to buy some games on Steam as well but from what I hear sales attract enough buyers to a game that the developers make quite a good profit.  Of course this could just be the case for a few games.       



> Physical copy retailers will be a non factor in the future I think. Just look at books.



It's possible but that will probably take a couple of console generations to happen.


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## Spirit King (Feb 6, 2012)

Gnome said:


> Who cares if its "Nintendo". At the end of the day its all up to the publisher really.



TBF Nintendo has the greatest sway over publishers on their consoles in comparison to Sony and Microsoft, it's also part of the reason why they 3rd parties dislike them. If Mario Kart for example sold at $39.99 you can bet your bottom ass that most publishers would have to use a similar pricing in order to compete with it on a Nintendo console. If Sony realised Uncharted for $39.99 or even Microsoft with Halo none of the publishers would care. 

Nintendo has a much bigger presence on the software side of their consoles than either companies.


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## LMJ (Feb 6, 2012)

HAHAHAHAHAAHAH, STFU Devs.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 6, 2012)

Its basically DRM for consoles. And it would NEVER WORK for the exact reason that the console ecosystem is a lot different from the PC ecosystem, and even there there's plenty of grumbling


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## Bungee Gum (Feb 6, 2012)

Yeh, that guy....

He's basically saying, in other words, "I beat my girlfriend, she won't like it at first, but she'll get used to it, so don't worry"


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## ExoSkel (Feb 6, 2012)

If MS actually lit a green light on their next system banning used games, then the online shop and gamestop is literally fucked.


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## Spirit King (Feb 7, 2012)

Not really they would simply stop selling Xbox used games. Wii U probably won't have that shit (at least not inately the publishers would have to do their own shit) and that comes out before the xbox and is the first nextgen console. PS4 may not have it also (though I'm not sure in regards to Sony).


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## Sephiroth (Feb 7, 2012)

The same rumor came about last gen, I'm already dismissing it as never happening.


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## Spirit King (Feb 7, 2012)

Sephiroth said:


> The same rumor came about last gen, I'm already dismissing it as never happening.



True but there's more reason to put weight on it this gen considering companies apparant embracing of preventing used sales. But it is still simply a rumour and is just as likely as being wrong as it it is being correct.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 7, 2012)

^ Gamestop makes a lot of their money these days on used. Take that out and they basically become any other store that sells games. Thus putting them in a bad position


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## Spirit King (Feb 7, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> ^ Gamestop makes a lot of their money these days on used. Take that out and they basically become any other store that sells games. Thus putting them in a bad position



True but PSN pass etc are making it more and favourable to simply buy new if were buying used and needed one of those passes to for example go online which costs about the same as a new game, and their only going to become more agressive.

Their basically trying to turn used games into demo's.


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## Violent-nin (Feb 8, 2012)

Hmm.....interesting.


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## Fiona (Feb 8, 2012)

To sum up that dev's last comment. 


We need to do something about this, we arent making enough money



Its bs and i cant imagine a company actually doing it. If they did it would then be easier and cheaper to convert to the PC gaming master-race which i WILL do if this comes to pass


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## Spirit King (Feb 8, 2012)

Fiona said:


> To sum up that dev's last comment.
> 
> 
> We need to do something about this, we arent making enough money
> ...



Ironically PC games have already had this for a long time, it just took a bit of time for piracy to really take off.


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## ~Gesy~ (Feb 8, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> ^ Gamestop makes a lot of their money these days on used. Take that out and they basically become any other store that sells games. Thus putting them in a bad position




won't that just make people buy their games off ebay?


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## Bender (Feb 8, 2012)

Only been like a few years that the PS3 has been in existence and ALREADY we're getting a PS4?


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## Raiden (Feb 8, 2012)

Not sure if it makes sense. Current versions of both consoles are rolling strong. Sure it's always nice to have something new, but man are people going to feel stupid shelving something as valuable as a PS3.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 8, 2012)

~Gesy~ said:


> won't that just make people buy their games off ebay?



No, because as has been said, DRM would be employed for this system, meaning that you could no longer sell your games, because there would be a single use code involved which would be limited to one user ID


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## dream (Feb 8, 2012)

Bender said:


> Only been like a few years that the PS3 has been in existence and ALREADY we're getting a PS4?



Eh, the time span between the PS3's release and the probably release date of the PS4 is longer than the time span between the PS1's release and PS2's release.


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## Bungee Gum (Feb 9, 2012)

ps4 will likely come in 2014, thats 8 years apart from the ps3 launch, i think by that time it will not have much software that would be worth buying


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2012)

Remember, even Samaritan was running on UE3. I expect good things from next gen +___+


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## dream (Feb 10, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Remember, even Samaritan was running on UE3. I expect good things from next gen +___+



Samaritan may have been running on UE3 but it certainly was a heavily modified UE3 that may have been re-purposed as UE4.  Also Samaritan level graphics won't be possible on the next-gen consoles...probably.  Also, Samaritan was running on three Nvidia 580 GTX cards...that's far more horsepower than the rumored GPU in the new Xbox and Wii U.


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## Malvingt2 (Feb 10, 2012)

*RUMOR - Next Xbox to have controller similar to that of Wii U*





> Is Microsoft heading down the same road that Nintendo is? I love how the magazine still manages to jab Nintendo over the 'bulky' Wii U controller, all while mentioning how the Vita is sleek. When you have a rumor that seems to blatantly copy a competitor's idea, why not bash the competitor's device?!


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## Hatifnatten (Feb 10, 2012)

Bender said:


> Only been like a few years that the PS3 has been in existence and ALREADY we're getting a PS4?


PS1->PS2 6 years
PS2->PS3 6 years
PS3->PS4 more than 6 years


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Samaritan may have been running on UE3 but it certainly was a heavily modified UE3 that may have been re-purposed as UE4.  Also Samaritan level graphics won't be possible on the next-gen consoles...probably.  Also, Samaritan was running on three Nvidia 580 GTX cards...that's far more horsepower than the rumored GPU in the new Xbox and Wii U.







Samaritan was worked on by a group of 5 over a period of 3 months. The head of the team has since stated that it is not indicative of UE4 will eventually be (specifically outing it as only the limit of what UE3 could do).  Also, they also since stated that with optimization, Samaritan level graphics in UE3 could run on only one GTX580, which is exactly what UE4 does, capitalize on those caveats.



In the Samaritian demo, memory was limited to 1.5 GB, and the next Xbox will most assuredly be 2 GB at the least.





> "We're extending Unreal Engine 3 to remain the most powerful and feature-rich engine for the duration of this hardware generation." The next generation will arrive one day, and on that point Sweeney says, "as we move to the next hardware generation -- thinking beyond current DirectX 11 hardware to future consoles and computers with entirely new levels of performance -- we'll combine the latest and greatest of Unreal Engine 3 with significant new systems and simplification and re-architecting of existing systems to become Unreal Engine 4."



What was in UE3 in the Samaritan demo was based on preexisting UE3 tech. You are correct only as far as saying that UE4 will be using evolved forms of that tech as well as completely new from scratch systems that were not possible beforehand.

"We're extending Unreal Engine 3 to remain the most powerful and feature-rich engine for the duration of this hardware generation." The next generation will arrive one day, and on that point Sweeney says, "as we move to the next hardware generation -- thinking beyond current DirectX 11 hardware to future consoles and computers with entirely new levels of performance -- we'll combine the latest and greatest of Unreal Engine 3 with significant new systems and simplification and re-architecting of existing systems to become Unreal Engine 4."


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## LivingHitokiri (Feb 10, 2012)

Lee Min Jung said:


> HAHAHAHAHAAHAH, STFU Devs.


If this somehow and magically happens then MS wont sell any shit with their new 720, and, they know it.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2012)

I doubt MS would have that in mind personally, but we'll see


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## Bungee Gum (Feb 10, 2012)

2 gigs for xbox? wow my shitty laptop right now has 3 gigs, it should at least have 4. 2? waat the fuck


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2012)

Goova said:


> 2 gigs for xbox? wow my shitty laptop right now has 3 gigs, it should at least have 4. 2? waat the fuck



What people who aren't into game technics don't understand is that a set gaming unit has a lot more room for expansion with what it is given then a PC.

For example, a GTX560i in a normal PC is only going to get a fraction of the power housed within the unit. This is because PC's normally use up the rest of the power of its GPU for computations of many different things at the same time. PC's are actually very under-optimized as opposed to a console that has no extra computations because it is hardwired to be a game console and nothing else. Thus you get more power or more optimization.

It is the same for memory. What 360 has done with 512mb of unified memory is far and beyond what similar memory could do for a PC that is trying to run a game.

Just think of the RAM requirements for your average PC modern game and it'll become clear.


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## Bungee Gum (Feb 10, 2012)

i see, it still sounds so small though, next gen gaming systems are going to more entwined with the internet and pc like activities, wouldn't those processes need more ram so it doesnt feel like shit in 5 years?


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2012)

Not necessarily no, because those processes only use up negligible resources in comparison to games


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## dream (Feb 10, 2012)

> In the Samaritian demo, memory was limited to 1.5 GB, and the next Xbox will most assuredly be 2 GB at the least.



That's interesting, had no idea that it was limited to 1.5GBs.



> Also, they also since stated that with optimization, Samaritan level graphics in UE3 could run on only one GTX580, which is exactly what UE4 does, capitalize on those caveats.



It's certainly possible I suppose but we'll see what the future holds for us. 

In any case the leap from UE3 to UE4 won't be quite that impressive when it comes to the changes in the code, it'll probably just look that way because of the improved hardware that the new consoles and PCs will have.  Of course I could be wrong and the UE4 could deserve to be called UE4 and not UE3.x.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2012)

Well i guess the whole thing is a big waiting game anyway  i hope i'm not the only one who's impatient for E3 so we can get all these rumors out of the way


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## dream (Feb 10, 2012)

This E3 will certainly be the best E3 that we've had in years.


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## Zaru (Feb 10, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Not necessarily no, because those processes only use up negligible resources in comparison to games



For people who have a capable PC, they should start up some current games and see how much of their memory is actually used by the process in the Task Manager. It's often surprisingly low.


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## LMJ (Feb 10, 2012)

Wtf E3 so soon. It feels like it just happened, wtf.


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## Bungee Gum (Feb 10, 2012)

it was just november! Time is passing so fast


----------



## Flynn (Feb 10, 2012)

This still feels like hokum. This gen is still doing fine, it should be at least good for another year. Plus, I'm expecting huge prices for these considering the price of a ps3 when it was first out.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2012)

^ PS3 was only costly because Sony blew all their money on the most expensive devices without realizing they weren't going to get their money back.



Zaru said:


> For people who have a capable PC, they should start up some current games and see how much of their memory is actually used by the process in the Task Manager. It's often surprisingly low.



It depends on what kind of drivers you have installed.

As PC's are usually unoptimized for games, games themselves are completely unoptimized for PC. They end up eating a lot more resources than they should for much less bang


----------



## Spirit King (Feb 10, 2012)

Zaru said:


> For people who have a capable PC, they should start up some current games and see how much of their memory is actually used by the process in the Task Manager. It's often surprisingly low.



Not entirely when I use my 8gb ram on certain games it can take up a surprising amount (though 64 bit is designed to use up more ram to speed up certain processes).


----------



## Sotei (Feb 10, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Well i guess the whole thing is a big waiting game anyway  i hope i'm not the only one who's impatient for E3 so we can get all these rumors out of the way





Haha, You're not the only one buddy, E3 is my most anticipated 3 days of the year since I first heard of E3 way back in the day. I used to go nuts for the EGM E3 edition, shit was bananas all the major reveals and what not. I still have yet to go to one but I will, one of these years.

I don't get excited for any holidays or even my own birthday but the month and the days leading up to E3 I'm as excited as can be.


----------



## dream (Feb 10, 2012)

> I used to go nuts for the EGM E3 edition, shit was bananas all the major reveals and what not.



Heh, even though I would already know everything about E3 before the EGM E3 magazine would come out I would still get a copy of the magazine and go gaga over it.


----------



## The World (Feb 13, 2012)

This looks pretty dope. I guess GTA5 might look even better than this.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1rAyM_njdQ[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## dream (Feb 13, 2012)

This is how GTA5 will look.


----------



## The World (Feb 13, 2012)

Well we don't know what the final product will be like.


----------



## dream (Feb 14, 2012)

Generally from what I hear that should be pretty close to the final graphics of the game.  There might be some improvements in a few areas but they probably won't be really noticeable differences.


----------



## Yasuri (Feb 14, 2012)

I wonder what ICEnhancer GTA5 will look like.


----------



## LMJ (Feb 14, 2012)

Yasuri said:


> I wonder what ICEnhancer GTA5 will look like.



It is called real life.


----------



## dream (Feb 14, 2012)

Lee Min Jung said:


> It is called real life.



And ICEnhancer for GTA6 will look better than real life!


----------



## Yasuri (Feb 14, 2012)

Lee Min Jung said:


> It is called real life.





Eternal Goob said:


> And ICEnhancer for GTA6 will look better than real life!



[YOUTUBE]mKYKyIObXyM[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## The World (Feb 14, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> And ICEnhancer for GTA6 will look better than real life!



It will be 4D!


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 14, 2012)

Got some new info from Epic, (if you look hard enough you can see a hint about the next xbox's actual power)



take it in conjunction with this


----------



## dream (Feb 14, 2012)

Unreal Engine 4 on the new Xbox at this E3 and possibly on the Wii U as well though that's less likely.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 14, 2012)

since the rumor was 6 times the power, and this will need to be 10x the power, and since Epic has been working closely with Microsoft on its design, we can assume that those rumors were junk  and considering that the Wii U specs came with those other design specs, we can also assume that those were not real as well.

We need actual stats here, not effing guesswork.


----------



## Spirit King (Feb 14, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> since the rumor was 6 times the power, and this will need to be 10x the power, and since Epic has been working closely with Microsoft on its design, we can assume that those rumors were junk  and considering that the Wii U specs came with those other design specs, we can also assume that those were not real as well.
> 
> We need actual stats here, not effing guesswork.



Actually it won't, it only needs to be 4.4 times the power to be run at 720p, and the whole power calculation business is always a bit sketchy, two different calculations for different scenario's will produce very different results, it doesn't mean the spec sheet IGn saw was neccesarily wrong.


----------



## dream (Feb 14, 2012)

E3 can't come any sooner.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 14, 2012)

The possibility of graphics are making my penis drip with excitement.


----------



## LMJ (Feb 14, 2012)

Like I said CMX, new Orge Tactic coming on the new xbox with the new Unreal Engine, with DLC and QTE.


----------



## dream (Feb 14, 2012)

Lee Min Jung said:


> Like I said CMX, new Orge Tactic coming on the new xbox with the new Unreal Engine, with DLC and QTE.



I was excited until I saw QTE.


----------



## LMJ (Feb 14, 2012)

CMX's favorite gaming gimmick.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 14, 2012)

Spirit King said:


> Actually it won't, it only needs to be 4.4 times the power to be run at 720p, and the whole power calculation business is always a bit sketchy, two different calculations for different scenario's will produce very different results, it doesn't mean the spec sheet IGn saw was neccesarily wrong.



Well to run at 1080p with 30fps i mean, that's what they'll need  which should technically be the standard they are going for but heeey.

Its not as if developers haven't toyed around with resolution and framerate this gen to get better results so you may be right. But UE3 standard comes with 720p support so coming at it from a standardized perspective of the UE engine would be best.

Really, i'm trying my hardest to finally be rid of the rumors to get to the truth, but i guess we won't be able to truly do that until E3


----------



## Yasuri (Feb 14, 2012)

I just hope the bare minimum for the next generation is 720p/60fps.  Those 640p situations of stretching on a 1080p screen did become apparent at times.  Though really, I dunno, I tend to prefer frame rate over resolution if one has to take a drop for another.  60fps should be standard.  Higher than that can be optional.   Regardless, I'll have fast SSD drives on standby as I dislike long loading times.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 14, 2012)

60 frames>1080p
I can't tell a lick of difference between 360p and 720p.
Rather have more frames so things don't look all jumpy.
Studies by Thomas Edison determined that any rate below 46 FPS "will strain the eye."

yeah I can tell that shit's skipping ingame give me more frames 
"in order to add a heightened sense of reality. Peter Jackson is filming The Hobbit at 48 FPS."


----------



## LMJ (Feb 14, 2012)

I heard bout the increase to fps for The Hobbit, but I can't really tell teh difference. Or how can you? Movie wise.


----------



## dream (Feb 14, 2012)

> I can't tell a lick of difference between 360p and 720p.



The difference is rather noticeable.  For example 480p is 852x480 pixels.  720p is 1,280x720 pixels.  That's a massive world of difference.  1080p is 1,920x1,080 pixels.

Here's an image showing how they stack up.


*Spoiler*: __ 









Here is one showing the difference in quality.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 14, 2012)

I'd take resolution over framerate myself. I don't like extra FPS because it seems like everything is going fast forward unnaturally. The human eye only measures about 72fps in real life functions either way.

Plus FPS caps in some situations can be a design choice like SOTC and in other cases can allow one to keep up with the action.

I don't think that overly smooth performance is paramount


----------



## Spirit King (Feb 14, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I'd take resolution over framerate myself. I don't like extra FPS because it seems like everything is going fast forward unnaturally. The human eye only measures about 72fps in real life functions either way.
> 
> Plus FPS caps in some situations can be a design choice like SOTC and in other cases can allow one to keep up with the action.
> 
> I don't think that overly smooth performance is paramount



Human eye doesn't work that way and there's a lot more to percieved fps than simply the actual number.

Really though the most important thing in regards to games with low fps is input lag. Games with lower fps have a significant amount more noticeable imput lag than those with high fps of 60fps+. This means games with lower fps are less responsive.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 15, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Here is one showing the difference in quality.


They both look shitty.


Spirit King said:


> Human eye doesn't work that way and there's a lot more to percieved fps than simply the actual number.
> 
> Really though the most important thing in regards to games with low fps is input lag. Games with lower fps have a significant amount more noticeable imput lag than those with high fps of 60fps+. This means games with lower fps are less responsive.


Almost all games take too long to do what I tell them to do.
It's annoying.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2012)

I've never noticed lag in 30fps, so for me its not an issue.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 15, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I've never noticed lag in 30fps, so for me its not an issue.



You never see a game do jumps while reloading a gun?
I don't like it when things magically appear somewhere.
If you play something called real life you should be able to notice.


----------



## dream (Feb 15, 2012)

> They both look shitty.



But do you see a clear difference between the two?


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 15, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> But do you see a clear difference between the two?



Well ya, but it doesn't matter when they both look terrible.
It would be better to show it like this.
[YOUTUBE]d_gATFCmb6k[/YOUTUBE]
The only way you can see the quality differences is to expand and watch in 1080p  360 works just fine on a small player size.
[YOUTUBE]MBSjdd5dC3U[/YOUTUBE]
720p with 60 frames crushed it


----------



## Gnome (Feb 15, 2012)

Movie FPS is 24 because it looks the best, end of discussion.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 15, 2012)

Gnome said:


> Movie FPS is 24 because it looks the best, end of discussion.



I love at looking things from the perspective of CMX all the time too.


----------



## Gnome (Feb 15, 2012)

60fps for games, 24fps for movies. Anything else isn't optimal.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 15, 2012)

Gnome said:


> 60fps for games, 24fps for movies. Anything else isn't optimus.


fps more than meets the eye.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> You never see a game do jumps while reloading a gun?
> I don't like it when things magically appear somewhere.
> If you play something called real life you should be able to notice.



i've never had input lag as a problem during playing games with 30fps, that was my point as Spirit King mentioned it as a detriment for some reason.

All i'm saying is it doesn't matter to me whether a game is 30fps or 60fps, i'll take a screen resolution bump over either option


----------



## Spirit King (Feb 15, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> i've never had input lag as a problem during playing games with 30fps, that was my point as Spirit King mentioned it as a detriment for some reason.
> 
> All i'm saying is it doesn't matter to me whether a game is 30fps or 60fps, i'll take a screen resolution bump over either option



It's very noticeable if your playing any particularly  fast based games, which requires using your best reactions, e.g racing games and certain action games and fighters.

It's not like 60 is needed for everything though there are certain types games where the input lag isn't particularily noticeable due to their slower paced nature and some devs can even reduce the input lag by a certain degree, which they can obviously use that extra power for other things.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 16, 2012)

*Rumor:The Next Xbox is Code-Named?Durango*



> Kotaku has heard from multiple sources close to the project that the code-name for Microsoft's next console is Durango.
> 
> Yup. Durango.
> Note this is a code-name. Like the Katana (Dreamcast), Dolphin (GameCube) and Revolution (Wii) before it, it's not the name that will appear on the finished product when you finally get your hands on one.
> ...


----------



## dream (Feb 16, 2012)

Could have been worse.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Feb 16, 2012)

Nothing will beat the Revolution.


----------



## dream (Feb 16, 2012)

Goova said:


> Nothing will beat the Revolution.



Probably, it was a fantastic codename.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 16, 2012)

I did like Project Cafe for Wii U..


----------



## Yasuri (Feb 16, 2012)

Mexico eh.


----------



## The World (Feb 16, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOwhrCkMiKA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 16, 2012)

They already did a brazil city for natal(aka kinect)


----------



## Knight of Fate (Feb 16, 2012)

They need to focus on making better quality games for the current generation of consoles before moving on. [/facepalm]


----------



## Gnome (Feb 16, 2012)

Current console games are actually pretty much at their peak.


----------



## Fiona (Feb 16, 2012)

I was kinda bummed when Sony annouced that they will be making no annoucements as far as the "PS4" is concerned and wernt making any new console annoucements


----------



## Dokiz1 (Feb 16, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> I did like Project Cafe for Wii U..



Me too, I don't like ''Wii U'' at all, though


----------



## The World (Feb 16, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_pUXJYZtCA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## dream (Feb 16, 2012)

Fiona said:


> I was kinda bummed when Sony annouced that they will be making no annoucements as far as the "PS4" is concerned and wernt making any new console annoucements



Same here, it would have made for an even more interesting E3.  Sony will be hopelessly overshadowed at this E3 by Nintendo and Microsoft.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 16, 2012)

Well sony can't really do it. That's how it is. They are fucking broke for lack of a better term, and they are not gonna make any returns having to support PS3, PS4 and Vita at the same time


----------



## Corran (Feb 16, 2012)

I'm still not sure Microsoft will announce new console yet, they may as well let it sit for another year since 360 is doing the best its ever done. No reason to kill the momentum their console has.


----------



## dream (Feb 16, 2012)

Corran said:


> I'm still not sure Microsoft will announce new console yet, they may as well let it sit for another year since 360 is doing the best its ever done. No reason to kill the momentum their console has.



If Nintendo wasn't releasing a new console this year then it's very likely that Microsoft wouldn't be revealing a new console but unless Microsoft reveals the new console next year and releases it in the game year then Nintendo would have had quite a big lead.  Not sure if Microsoft is comfortable with letting Nintendo build up momentum.


----------



## Corran (Feb 17, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> If Nintendo wasn't releasing a new console this year then it's very likely that Microsoft wouldn't be revealing a new console but unless Microsoft reveals the new console next year and releases it in the game year then Nintendo would have had quite a big lead.  Not sure if Microsoft is comfortable with letting Nintendo build up momentum.



I think it all depends on if people will upgrade from the Wii. I'm sure most of us here already has a HD console or both of them so it could be hard to justify people buying a new console that only looks a bit better than what we currently have. Microsoft could even use that to their advantage and drop the price further to undercut WiiU. Microsoft might also not consider it a rival at all since they are really late to the HD party and its not like Microsoft is going to lose its biggest money makers.
I really can't predict what WiiU will be like though. Its kind of an unknown at the moment since we still know so little. It could sell like the Wii did, or it could totally bomb, too early to tell.


----------



## dream (Feb 17, 2012)

> I'm sure most of us here already has a HD console or both of them so it could be hard to justify people buying a new console that only looks a bit better than what we currently have.



Only a little bit better?  The rumored specs suggest that it is quite a bit more powerful than the 360/PS3.  I'm pretty sure that people will upgrade from the Wii, they'll get a proper new console this time, plus Nintendo first & second party games with amazing graphics is too tempting to ignore.  Heck, I'm have a slight desire to get the Wii U and I'm someone who has stopped being a console gamer.  

And developers will certainly be intrigued by the touchpad controller and do fun things with it.  And Nintendo does seem pretty serious about attracting hardcore gamers, they'll certainly do everything in their power to bring over some fun games.  Of course it could end up bombing hard.


----------



## Nodonn (Feb 17, 2012)

Microsoft/Sony have every reason to let Nintendo set the standard for the next generation and following it.

1) Sony and Microsoft go all out and make a beast of a console, we'll probably get a repeat of this generation and they'll lose a ton of money for years. Meanwhile Nintendo makes a steady profit, even if the WiiU isn't as successful as the Wii.

2) Sony and Microsoft throw their lot in with Nintendo, everyone plays on an even playing field.

3) Either Sony or Microsoft goes all out and makes a beastly console, while the other one stays with Nintendo. 3rd party games will be made so they can play on the weaker consoles, which means that the strong one is just a really expensive box that only really gets used on exclusives.

If they don't follow Nintendo's example there's a good chance they're fucked the next generation, and if it happens to Sony that's probably the end of the Playstation.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Feb 17, 2012)

So if Wii U is around 5x as powerful as a xbox 360, there really is going to be minimal difference in each console next gen. like the difference between a ps3 and xbox360, not enough to change anyone's minds, wii u would get all the third party exclusives as well, and it would be a return to the gamecube/xbox/ps2 era like it should be


----------



## dream (Feb 17, 2012)

> So if Wii U is around 5x as powerful as a xbox 360, there really is going to be minimal difference in each console next gen. like the difference between a ps3 and xbox360, not enough to change anyone's mind



Are you suggesting that the PS3 is five times more powerful than the Xbox 360? 

In any case I wouldn't trust those kinds of numbers at all.  It's better to look at the rumored specs and go from there.  Things were pointing to the Wii U having a CPU based off of the Power7 cpu series which is a heck of a lot better than the Power5 that the 360 contains.  We're looking at at least 1 GB of RAM, double the amount in the 360, in the Wii U.  On a PC it may not be a massive difference but on a console it would be akin to night and day.  The rumored GPU is two generations newer than the GPU that is in the 360.  Combine that together and we're looking at something that will look quite a bit better than the 360.  The lightning in the Zelda demo alone raped everything that we've seen on the 360/PS3.


----------



## LMJ (Feb 17, 2012)

Dunno if this has been posted, but official



Now everyone can stfu bout ps4 coming this year. lol.


----------



## Gnome (Feb 17, 2012)

There was no chance of a PS4 this year in the first place.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Feb 17, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Are you suggesting that the PS3 is five times more powerful than the Xbox 360?
> 
> In any case I wouldn't trust those kinds of numbers at all.  It's better to look at the rumored specs and go from there.  Things were pointing to the Wii U having a CPU based off of the Power7 cpu series which is a heck of a lot better than the Power5 that the 360 contains.  We're looking at at least 1 GB of RAM, double the amount in the 360, in the Wii U.  On a PC it may not be a massive difference but on a console it would be akin to night and day.  The rumored GPU is two generations newer than the GPU that is in the 360.  Combine that together and we're looking at something that will look quite a bit better than the 360.  The lightning in the Zelda demo alone raped everything that we've seen on the 360/PS3.



Ah no, I'm suggesting the difference between the Wii U, Nextbox, and PS4 will be minimal, similar to the GC/PS2/Xbox generation.


----------



## Krory (Feb 17, 2012)

You're kidding right?

People never believe that shit. The companies could go under and people will still be like, "OMFG! PLAYSTATION 4 COMING OUT THIS YEAR!"


----------



## dream (Feb 17, 2012)

Lee Min Jung said:


> Dunno if this has been posted, but official
> 
> 
> 
> Now everyone can stfu bout ps4 coming this year. lol.



I refuse to believe that until E3 passes and the PS4 is a no show. 



Goova said:


> Ah no, I'm suggesting the difference between the Wii U, Nextbox, and PS4 will be minimal, similar to the GC/PS2/Xbox generation.



Opps.  Yes, they won't be too far off in terms of power assuming that the Wii U's power is better than we even expect.  Microsoft and Sony should be pretty wary of pushing out massively powerful consoles though they should still end up being a bit more powerful than the Wii U especially the PS4 since it'll be coming out last.  But it's a difference that won't matter much.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Feb 17, 2012)

Yeh, this next gen does not seem like it will be even nearly the jump in graphical power we seen from last generation to current generation. I mean so what, next gen Ps4 and Nextbox will have more shadows, reflections, etc and slightly more bytes per pixel than the Wii U's games? Most people aren't going to care if it has these things, unless the difference is as large as the difference between the Wii and Xbox 360, no one will frankly care too much


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 17, 2012)

Its a fallacy to assume that any of these rumors are true until the actual reveal.  

For me its a bygone conclusion that Sony will not be releasing or announcing much this year considering that they have a hole they need to dig themselves out of, even though they are possibly working on it right now in some form.

We know that the next gen 360 has been in planning since the beginning of last year, long before Wii U's reveal.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Feb 17, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Its a fallacy to assume that any of these rumors are true until the actual reveal.
> 
> For me its a bygone conclusion that Sony will not be releasing or announcing much this year considering that they have a hole they need to dig themselves out of, even though they are possibly working on it right now in some form.
> 
> We know that the next gen 360 has been in planning since the beginning of last year, long before Wii U's reveal.



It's a fallacy? No it's not, it's silly, but not a fallacy. The act of assuming something is not fallacious, it is when you use those assumptions in an argument, but plainly assuming things like rumors to be true, the right word is not fallacy.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 17, 2012)

Well you basically educated me today, thank you for that


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 22, 2012)




----------



## dream (Feb 22, 2012)

AMD in PS4?  I can live with that though I'm not so certain about the source.


----------



## ovanz (Feb 22, 2012)

Hope NOT. I just bought X-Box 360 last friday just to have a new generation console and play the new games (8 years having PS2 lol). then if they release a new console no more games for this console >/


----------



## dream (Feb 22, 2012)

ovanz said:


> Hope NOT. I just bought X-Box 360 last friday just to have a new generation console and play the new games (8 years having PS2 lol). then if they release a new console no more games for this console >/



Next Xbox will certainly come out late next year and if not then in early 2014 so you still have some time to enjoy good new games on the console.  And even when the new console comes out there still will be some games being released for it.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 22, 2012)

If we take the 10 year cycle into account, then expect the 360 to be supported for a while after nextbox is officially released 

The original xbox was a special case.

Personally im at pains to think that sony would bring out AMD. not only is it the partner of their competitor, but they also hyped up CELL to high heaven last generation. Ease of access is all fine and good, but your eating your boasts now


----------



## dream (Feb 22, 2012)

> If we take the 10 year cycle into account, then expect the 360 to be supported for a while after nextbox is officially released



Much of that support will be shitty Kinect games.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 22, 2012)

and third party games, but 360 is mostly known for 3rd party dominance anyway


----------



## Gnome (Feb 22, 2012)

It's sad how they're trying to be known for the Kinect, so so sad.


----------



## Yasuri (Feb 23, 2012)

I've never seen anyone buy Kinnect around where I'm at.  GameStop, Target, Walmart, Best Buy, Costco, etc.  It might be that the people aren't all that active around here though.  That or maybe everyone buys a Kinnect off of Amazon.com because they don't want anyone to know they are buying it.


----------



## dream (Feb 23, 2012)

I've seen a few people buy Kinect at the store where I work.  The buyers were, as expected, the super casuals.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 26, 2012)




----------



## Yasuri (Feb 26, 2012)

> Thou shalt not force repetition on the player.
> 
> Humans only find repetition enjoyable when they choose it.
> 
> ...



 **


----------



## dream (Feb 26, 2012)

Read that article before, it has some really good points.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 26, 2012)

i've gotta agree. Nobody knows how pissed i am that more and more developers seem to shit on split screen. Me and my friends always joke about the developers not seeming to realize that there are people who actually hang out and want something to do


----------



## dream (Feb 26, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> i've gotta agree. Nobody knows how pissed i am that more and more developers seem to shit on split screen. Me and my friends always joke about the developers not seeming to realize that there are people who actually hang out and want something to do



Yeah, had a hell of a time playing Halo 1 split-screen with my friends.  I enjoyed that far more than any online match of Halo 2/3.


----------



## Shirker (Feb 26, 2012)

Meh, I'm indifferent to it to be perfectly honest. I think the games where that feature wasn't a bit of a hindrance I can count on my hand. Split screen for racers and shooters can take a leap altogether and I wouldn't really miss it.

When I game locally with friends we usually stick to party games or fighters, with the occasional Mario Kart.


----------



## LMJ (Feb 27, 2012)

BAM. Can't wait.

Edit: Also



Orly?


----------



## dream (Feb 27, 2012)

I do hope that it's a landscape tech demo like this UE3 tech demo:


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 27, 2012)

Graphics! 

Can't wait for shiny graphics.


----------



## dream (Feb 27, 2012)

Amazing graphic are the most important thing for a new console to have.


----------



## LMJ (Feb 27, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Graphics!
> 
> Can't wait for shiny graphics.



Dunno if you will still be around when the PS4 comes out, Gramps


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 27, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Amazing graphic are the most important thing for a new console to have.


 Amazing graphics are the most important thing for games to have.

Period.



Lee Min Jung said:


> Dunno if you will still be around when the PS4 comes out, Gramps


----------



## Gnome (Feb 27, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Amazing graphics are the most important thing for games to have.
> 
> Period.



It's the only thing that gets it up anymore eh gramps?


----------



## dream (Feb 27, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Amazing graphics are the most important thing for games to have.
> 
> Period.





Having five or less hours of gameplay is the most important thing for games.


----------



## Gnome (Feb 27, 2012)

No, its more important for the entire game to take place within the space of a corridor and you can't deviate from it.


----------



## dream (Feb 27, 2012)

Gnome said:


> No, its more important for the entire game to take place within the space of a corridor and you can't deviate from it.



I stand corrected.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 27, 2012)

Gnome said:


> It's the only thing that gets it up anymore eh gramps?


 Better than Viagara.


Eternal Goob said:


> Having five or less hours of gameplay is the most important thing for games.


 


Gnome said:


> No, its more important for the entire game to take place within the space of a corridor and you can't deviate from it.


 You both present compelling points.

However, I contend that a game must also have QTEs and be a TPS to be any good. It's a combination of things; no longer can games rely on one-trick-ponies like yesteryear--they have to be the complete package: shiny graphics, <5hr length, 100% linear gameplay, QTEs, Third Person view, guns, tits, and lack of story.


----------



## LMJ (Feb 27, 2012)

What bout DLC the day of release?


----------



## dream (Feb 27, 2012)

And don't forget about wonderful day one patches.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 28, 2012)

"I can already see their E3 presentation now.
360 x 6 = XBOX 2160, 2+1+6+0 = 9 (German techno beats began thumping with a robot voice repeating 'nein, nein, nein, nein, nein.') Spotlight hits a sweaty shirtless David Hasslehoff and Bill Gates doing the robot to the rhythm of the techno beat, They continue the robot as avant-garde images of exotic animals floating in space wearing master chief helmets are projected on the screen; all the while the beat continues thumping, 'nein, nein, nein, nein, nein.' Bold lettering fills the screen with the phrase, "All your XBOT are belong to us". The vivid images and mesmerizing trance become too much for the crowd to handle. David Hasslehoff and Bill Gates begin rolling in a pile of money while laughing uncontrollably as the audiences eyes began to melt inside their skulls like the finale of Raiders of the Lost Ark."-random internet user


----------



## DedValve (Feb 28, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> "I can already see their E3 presentation now.
> 360 x 6 = XBOX 2160, 2+1+6+0 = 9 (German techno beats began thumping with a robot voice repeating 'nein, nein, nein, nein, nein.') Spotlight hits a sweaty shirtless David Hasslehoff and Bill Gates doing the robot to the rhythm of the techno beat, They continue the robot as avant-garde images of exotic animals floating in space wearing master chief helmets are projected on the screen; all the while the beat continues thumping, 'nein, nein, nein, nein, nein.' Bold lettering fills the screen with the phrase, "All your XBOT are belong to us". The vivid images and mesmerizing trance become too much for the crowd to handle. David Hasslehoff and Bill Gates begin rolling in a pile of money while laughing uncontrollably as the audiences eyes began to melt inside their skulls like the finale of Raiders of the Lost Ark."-random internet user



Seems about right 

EDIT: Post 666 how appropriate.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 28, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> I do hope that it's a landscape tech demo like this UE3 tech demo:


----------



## Gnome (Feb 28, 2012)

It's a Liliaceae!


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 28, 2012)

Gnome said:


> It's a Liliaceae!



Think of all the strange and realistic worlds they can make be prepared for the uncanny valley.


----------



## Gnome (Feb 28, 2012)

I want to say its fake almost, because I'm counting 7 stamen.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 28, 2012)

The entire game should be 14 installments of 9.99 DLC packs.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 28, 2012)




----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 28, 2012)

Did I say 14 installments?

I mean 1,400.


DLC, BABY!


----------



## Gnome (Feb 28, 2012)

> Kotaku reported that Durango is the codename for Microsoft's next Xbox.


Dodge. The official sponsor of the Xbox 720.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 28, 2012)

Imagine when games get commercials.


----------



## Gnome (Feb 28, 2012)

Oh god, that's actually quite possible.

Every 10 minutes getting interrupted for 1 minute of commercials.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 28, 2012)

But you have to be connected to the Internet to watch them.



Which means you'll have to be connected to the Internet to play the game.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 28, 2012)

Well that's basically what PC DRM is anyway, so its technically not so farfetched


----------



## Gnome (Feb 28, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> But you have to be connected to the Internet to watch them.
> 
> 
> 
> Which means you'll have to be connected to the Internet to play the game.



1vs100 had commercials, but it was also free and hosting 20,000 people at once.


----------



## dream (Feb 28, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Imagine when games get commercials.



There are commercials already in videogames, one of the Counter-Strike: Source servers that I play on displays a commercial whenever I join the server.  It's only a matter of time before such things are built into the game.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 28, 2012)

It's not enough to pay 60 bucks anymore.


You also have to watch commercials and generate ad money for the game companies (probably only the publishers).


----------



## dream (Feb 28, 2012)

Military recruitment commercials in COD is all but guaranteed. :33


----------



## Gnome (Feb 28, 2012)

Every time you die you have to watch a commercial, now there's some incentive to being good.


----------



## dream (Feb 28, 2012)

Gnome said:


> Every time you die you have to watch a commercial, now there's some incentive to being good.



Camping goes up 90000000%.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 28, 2012)

Every time you camp you get a little ad bar.

If you try to shoot it counts as "clicking" the ad.


----------



## dream (Feb 29, 2012)

> The PlayStation 4 will not use Sony's Cell processor nor any possible successor to the vaunted chipset that was introduced to the world through the PlayStation 3, gaming industry sources tell Kotaku.
> 
> What we're hearing from sources follow a Forbes rumor last week that chip-maker AMD would make the graphics chip for a PS4, a shift from the PS3's use of a graphics chip from AMD rival Nvidia.
> 
> ...


----------



## The World (Feb 29, 2012)

Heh Sony knew they fucked up(again) and are now correcting it(again)

At least they try.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Feb 29, 2012)

AMD is the way to go.


----------



## Fiona (Feb 29, 2012)

Im holding off on durango until E3 


any word on whether anything is coming of it?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 29, 2012)

well its obvious that Cell sucked money fucks and made Sony burn tons of money with no reward  atleast it shows they learned something


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 9, 2012)

*UE3 Samaritan level graphics "crap" in comparison to UE4 says Epic Co-Founder Mark Rein*




Well it is over a year old tech, but fuck. Your not seriously telling me that that kind of hardware is already outdated. Apparently the very lowest baseline for Samaritan graphics running at acceptable frame rates is 10x the horse power of 360.

Considering that one GTX580 with optimization is capable of running Samaritan level graphics(as per Tim Sweeny), does that mean that GTX580s maximum output is 10x 360? 

Mind = blown


----------



## Ino Yamanaka (Mar 9, 2012)

Good thing am rich -Rich snob-


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 9, 2012)

*Rumor - Next xbox won't have a disk drive *




Well, shit. The retail market finished so soon?   Microsoft is either really confident or really stupid


----------



## SAFFF (Mar 9, 2012)

Depends how it works. They have to have you going out to the store to purchase some physical card or whatever like you do for DLC. I know they don't expect everyone to have a credit card.


----------



## Yasuri (Mar 9, 2012)

> The second is a "more fully-featured machine" with optical drive, hard disk and backwards compatibility. This would be aimed at hardcore gamers and released at a higher price-point.



Yeah I'll take the "hardcore gamer" version of this and any system I get really.  If I can upgrade it more, then I'll do so (like with the PS3 and getting a higher capacity HDD when the one Sony gave wasn't large enough).


----------



## dream (Mar 9, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> *UE3 Samaritan level graphics "crap" in comparison to UE4 says Epic Co-Founder Mark Rein*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Heh, I'll believe that when I see it.  More than likely this is just some bullshit hype, at best UE4's level of graphics will look a fair amount better than the Samaritan demo.   



> Considering that one GTX580 with optimization is capable of running Samaritan level graphics(as per Tim Sweeny), does that mean that GTX580s maximum output is 10x 360?



I can believe that, the 360 is several generations behind GPU-wise than the GTX 580.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 9, 2012)

Next XBOX will be a failure.


----------



## dream (Mar 9, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Next XBOX will be a failure.



Too early to tell, we'll have a better idea at E3.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 9, 2012)

Won't even had a disk drive.


They'll probably try to sell us proprietary SD cards.


----------



## dream (Mar 9, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Won't even had a disk drive.
> 
> 
> They'll probably try to sell us proprietary SD cards.



Now now, it's just a silly rumor at this point.

SD cards could be nice I suppose.


----------



## Patchouli (Mar 9, 2012)

Hold up, PS4 is going to use AMD?

Is there even a remote chance that because of this, emulating a PS4 on a PC would be possible without stealing a computer from NASA? If I recall correctly, the reason PS2 emulation is so demanding on PC's is because of the weird architecture Sony used. 

Or maybe I'm way off-base.


----------



## Corruption (Mar 9, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Considering that one GTX580 with optimization is capable of running Samaritan level graphics(as per Tim Sweeny), does that mean that GTX580s maximum output is 10x 360?



What's even crazier is now they're running the Samaritan demo on a single "Kepler" GPU (probably a GTX 680) on the same settings they used last year when they used 3 GTX 580's in SLI.


----------



## Tempproxy (Mar 9, 2012)

Is it true the ps4 is coming out around christmas?


----------



## Jon Snow (Mar 9, 2012)

That's way too soon


----------



## dream (Mar 9, 2012)

Ms. T said:


> Hold up, PS4 is going to use AMD?
> 
> Is there even a remote chance that because of this, emulating a PS4 on a PC would be possible without stealing a computer from NASA? If I recall correctly, the reason PS2 emulation is so demanding on PC's is because of the weird architecture Sony used.
> 
> Or maybe I'm way off-base.



There were rumors of PS4 possibly using an AMD processor but it's unconfirmed much like every other rumors we've had regarding the system.  As for emulating a PS4 that uses an AMD processor, I suppose that it might be easier to do.  



Tempproxy said:


> Is it true the ps4 is coming out around christmas?



There is no believable rumor that suggests that as far as I know.  At best we might get a late 2013 launch but it'll be best to expect it sometime in 2014.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 9, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Now now, it's just a silly rumor at this point.
> 
> SD cards could be nice I suppose.


 Silly rumors have silly ways of becoming silly facts.


Ms. T said:


> Hold up, PS4 is going to use AMD?
> 
> Is there even a remote chance that because of this, emulating a PS4 on a PC would be possible without stealing a computer from NASA? If I recall correctly, the reason PS2 emulation is so demanding on PC's is because of the weird architecture Sony used.
> 
> Or maybe I'm way off-base.


 Why?

Is AMD some kind of alien technlogoy? I have an AMD processor in my computer and I didn't steal that from NASA.

Am I missing something here?


----------



## dream (Mar 9, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Silly rumors have silly ways of becoming silly facts.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...



True but it's best to not believe them.

Hmm, from what I remember the cpu in the PS2 was a custom built cpu designed by Sony and Toshiba.  Thing is that the people making the emulation software aren't familiar with it or rather weren't too familiar with it since if was different from Intel and AMD cpus, this meant that they had to force PS2 games to run on PC hardware with some rather inefficient techniques.

If it's an AMD processor based off of a current AMD processor then emulators will have a pretty good idea of how to ideally program emulation software for PS4, it won't be perfect but it'll be much better than what they could do for a PS4 with another custom cpu architecture.


----------



## Patchouli (Mar 9, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> There were rumors of PS4 possibly using an AMD processor but it's unconfirmed much like every other rumors we've had regarding the system.  As for emulating a PS4 that uses an AMD processor, I suppose that it might be easier to do.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no believable rumor that suggests that as far as I know.  At best we might get a late 2013 launch but it'll be best to expect it sometime in 2014.



Hope the rumor turns out to be true.

Maybe then we'll driver updates. :33



CrazyMoronX said:


> Silly rumors have silly ways of becoming silly facts.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...



AMD isn't the alien technology, whatever Sony used for the PS2 and PS3's architecture was. 

I'm saying that if the PS4 does turn out using AMD, it would be much easier to emulate, and thus less demanding on a PC.



Eternal Goob said:


> True but it's best to not believe them.
> 
> Hmm, from what I remember the cpu in the PS2 was a custom built cpu designed by Sony and Toshiba.  Thing is that the people making the emulation software aren't familiar with it or rather weren't too familiar with it since if was different from Intel and AMD cpus, this meant that they had to force PS2 games to run on PC hardware with some rather inefficient techniques.
> 
> If it's an AMD processor based off of a current AMD processor then emulators will have a pretty good idea of how to ideally program emulation software for PS4, it won't be perfect but it'll be much better than what they could do for a PS4 with another custom cpu architecture.



Yep, that sums up the situation. :33


----------



## Patchouli (Mar 9, 2012)

If this rumor is true though, I really wonder how that would effect backwards compatibility.


----------



## LMJ (Mar 9, 2012)

Oh look, more and more rumors.


----------



## Patchouli (Mar 9, 2012)

Can't really expect much else until official announcements are made.

Until then, everything is just rumors and speculation.


----------



## dream (Mar 9, 2012)

Lee Min Jung said:


> Oh look, more and more rumors.



Rumors are wonderful for discussion.


----------



## Patchouli (Mar 9, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Rumors are wonderful for discussion.



Who knows, maybe a Sony employee will happen upon these rumors and pitch them as an idea.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Mar 9, 2012)

Welp, Microsoft is so out of console business if that no disc drive dlc bullshit is true.

My guess is Sony secretly bought Microsoft and now just trolling on xbox.

IT ALSO CAN PLAY EACH GAME ONLY ONCE.
YOU HAVE TO BUY NEW JOYSTICK FOR EVERY NEW GAME.
BREAKING DOWN IS NOW UNLOCKABLE ACHIEVEMENT.

Go Sony.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 9, 2012)

Ms. T said:


> Hope the rumor turns out to be true.
> 
> Maybe then we'll driver updates. :33
> 
> ...


 The way you worded it made it seem as if it was *because *it was on AMD that you'd need a NASA-stolen computer to emulate.

That's what had me saying, "WTF?" at you.


----------



## Patchouli (Mar 9, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> The way you worded it made it seem as if it was *because *it was on AMD that you'd need a NASA-stolen computer to emulate.
> 
> That's what had me saying, "WTF?" at you.



I haven't had my coffee today.

I don't even know what I'm saying.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 9, 2012)

I had two cups so far. Working on #3 soon.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 9, 2012)

It seems i really overreacted yesterday  apparently the "no disk drive" rumor is in conjunction with the previous rumor about there being two versions of nextbox, one with an optical drive and a cheaper one without.

One focused on the hardcore market and one focused on the kinect market.

Microsoft does have money to burn considering they have been making a profit for a while now, but don't go too crazy with it 


Anyway, if PS4 is using an AMD chip, good on em i'd say.  There are drawbacks and benefits to using extremely hard to code for tech like CELL. The benefits are usually not worth it though, as you need a dev with innate knowledge on its workings to bring out the potential, and most third party devs don't have that, that's why third party games suffered for the most part on PS3 this gen.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 9, 2012)

That makes some sense.

I doubt we'll see Microsoft pulling a Sony.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 9, 2012)

Corruption said:


> What's even crazier is now they're running the Samaritan demo on a single "Kepler" GPU (probably a GTX 680) on the same settings they used last year when they used 3 GTX 580's in SLI.



What's even crazier than that is that the GTX 680 is coming out later this month for 500 bucks 

That's roughly the power of 3 GTX580s put together available for the consumer already


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 9, 2012)

Five hundred bucks? 

Who needs that kind of power?


----------



## dream (Mar 9, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Five hundred bucks?
> 
> Who needs that kind of power?



People who want to the best eye-candy possible with the framerate as high as it can be.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 9, 2012)

*DICE: 2GB RAM next-gen "would not be enough", won't allow "game changing experiences"*



> During the Game Developer's Choice awards, DICE took home the prize of "Best Technology" for its Frostbite 2 engine. After accepting the award on behalf of his team, we asked DICE rendering architect Johan Andersson what the next generation of consoles would need to include for Frostbite 2 to work 'perfectly and as intended on high-end PCs.' To Andersson, the answer is "pretty easy to answer."
> 
> "There's two things: memory and processing power," he said. "We need lots and lots of processing power. The more you can cram into a machine, we'll take advantage of that." While 'more power' is the obvious answer -- both on the CPU and GPU side -- we wondered what wouldn't be 'enough' to work with.
> 
> ...


----------



## LMJ (Mar 9, 2012)

WTF would you need a GTX 680 for anyways. What games fully utilize that much power?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 9, 2012)

High level enthusiast cards like this usually start out at that kind of price point before slowly dropping down in price 

The only cards that start out small are the entry level cards and the cards that are specifically designed to have some weight behind them at an affordable price.

Which is why i think that Nextbox going with some variation of the low level ATI 6670 isn't that much of a stretch. Microsoft only pay about 60 bucks for manufacturing costs for the GPU and then they can add their own custom additions to make it more powerful while keeping the costs down.

the 6670 as it is right now without any additions, would be roughly about 4 to 5 times the power of the 360. Considering that the console in question would not be worried about reaching ridiculous resolutions like a PC and frame rates(720p or 1080p with either 30 or 60 fps is a console standard), it would actually be quite a jump.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 9, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> People who want to the best eye-candy possible with the framerate as high as it can be.


 


Lee Min Jung said:


> WTF would you need a GTX 680 for anyways. What games fully utilize that much power?


 Prolly fat people.

It's fat people, right?


----------



## dream (Mar 9, 2012)

Nice to see Dice, Epic, and Crytek pushing for more power from next-gen consoles.  



> WTF would you need a GTX 680 for anyways. What games fully utilize that much power?



Witcher 2 maxed out is a massive resource hog, a GTX 680 would do wonders for the framerate.  And I'm sure that there are a few other games that would benefit from a GTX 680 quite a bit.  Of course I myself can't really find it worth the price but some people have money to blow.


----------



## Gnome (Mar 9, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Five hundred bucks?
> 
> Who needs that kind of power?


I agree.

No one man should have all that power.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 9, 2012)

I would sooner buy 500 dollars worth of pie and eat it in one sitting.


----------



## Gnome (Mar 9, 2012)

Pie makes the world go round, that's why its shaped like a circle.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 9, 2012)

Crytek and Dice just need to know how to optimize that is all, they get too complacent with PC game design, but you can tell they are not actual console developers 

Fixed hardware such as consoles, and PC's are not the same things. your playing games on console with 512 MB of RAM and they are in a playable state whereas on PC you could never play a game these days with that kind of Ram even on the lowest settings and resolutions. It just would not be supported.  8 GB is absolutely ridiculous and completely out of the question.

At most i would expect 4, but i'm really expecting 2.5 for nextbox.

Wii U is only going to have about 1 from reports.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 9, 2012)

I would spend it on overpriced individual wedges.


Just


----------



## Tyrion (Mar 9, 2012)

500 bucks

cheap.


----------



## God Movement (Mar 9, 2012)

^ I agree. Much cheaper than I thought it would be.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 9, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Crytek and Dice just need to know how to optimize that is all, they get too complacent with PC game design, but you can tell they are not actual console developers
> 
> Fixed hardware such as consoles, and PC's are not the same things. your playing games on console with 512 MB of RAM and they are in a playable state whereas on PC you could never play a game these days with that kind of Ram even on the lowest settings and resolutions. It just would not be supported.  8 GB is absolutely ridiculous and completely out of the question.
> 
> ...


 the newest ones say 2 or over 1..


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 9, 2012)

the most consistent i've heard is they were experimenting with 758 meg carts and 1 gb carts and that they had gone with 1 GB, but we'll see i suppose


----------



## dream (Mar 9, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> the most consistent i've heard is they were experimenting with 758 meg carts and 1 gb carts and that they had gone with 1 GB, but we'll see i suppose



Those rumors are pretty old, most of the newer ones rumors indicate more than 1 GB of RAM.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 9, 2012)

Could you point me in the direction of these rumors?


----------



## dream (Mar 9, 2012)

It's from the same person that has been leaking dev kit information.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 9, 2012)

And what other dev kit information do we have? 

I don't see the Wii U having anything more than 2 GB personally, if these rumors are indeed correct. 

I've just never seen Nintendo joining the horsepower arms race after the Wii, and i still don't


----------



## dream (Mar 9, 2012)

> And what other dev kit information do we have?



From what I recall it's mostly just information about what version of the Dev kits that we are on, it's at revision 5 last I heard.



> I don't see the Wii U having anything more than 2 GB personally, if these rumors are indeed correct.



1.5 GBs is a pretty reasonable amount.


----------



## NeoKurama (Mar 9, 2012)

Stickin to my PS3, gracias.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 9, 2012)

I feel bad for sony  they are going to be left behind if they dont do something right fast


----------



## SAFFF (Mar 9, 2012)

They need better exclusives. But i think that's the developers faults not Sony's.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 9, 2012)

Sony is the one who buys devs, so its on them 

Guerrila's games are pretty, but they've always been generic and grating to me  Quantic dream as well pushes the Cell tech, but the games themselves might as well not even be called that 

Sucker Punch's games are good, but insomniac has been copy pasting their ratchet and clank designs for years and years, and the Resistance series got canned with good reason 

Its fine to flock to sony's exclusive tech for now, and for good reason, for those who know how to harness the power, it gives a considerable boost past 360(20 to 30%)

But when next gen rolls around, Sony's "cutting edge tech" will have meant nothing, and all of the years of the devs trying to get the juice out of it will have meant just the same.

That's why i thought cell was a bad idea from the start.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 14, 2012)

*Epic Games : Nextbox and PS4 should focus on graphical fidelity*




Also a hint inside as to UE4 and a certain console reveal date


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 14, 2012)

They should focus on making it as easy as possible for developers to make games.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 14, 2012)

its already easy  sony is the only one who fluffed that up this gen


----------



## Ben Tennyson (Mar 14, 2012)

hopefully they release the specs of the next console by next year.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 14, 2012)

Which console are you referring to?


----------



## Zaru (Mar 14, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> They should focus on making it as easy as possible for developers to make games.



Aren't especially sony and nintendo losing out on a whole ton of income from indie games? I wonder how well those are doing on xbox live arcade.


----------



## LMJ (Mar 15, 2012)

Checkmate. Now what?


----------



## dream (Mar 15, 2012)

Lee Min Jung said:


> Checkmate. Now what?



Time for Nintendo to dominate this E3.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 15, 2012)

So the whole point of the thread was because of that one rumor about PS4 and Nextbox being shown at E3 at the same time. So then, what is the point of the thread now that it is confirmed that both rumors were fake


----------



## dream (Mar 15, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> So the whole point of the thread was because of that one rumor about PS4 and Nextbox being shown at E3 at the same time. So then, what is the point of the thread now that it is confirmed that both rumors were fake



Time to turn it to a general speculation thread for the PS4/next Xbox.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 15, 2012)

i suppose. someone is gonna have to change the title though


----------



## Gnome (Mar 15, 2012)

Oh yay, more Kinect.


----------



## Raging Bird (Mar 16, 2012)

Ipad/Apple will change the video game industry if Sony/MS/Nintendo allow it to happen, There is just no way the current "Console Generation" system can last. Apple makes yearly upgrades to its hardware and with this new Ipad 3 they've already surpassed the current generation of video game consoles. It's only a matter of time until Apple just complete rips the market out of PS3,Xbox and Wii.


Watch Rockstar announce GTA V to be available on the Ipad.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 16, 2012)

people who say that underestimate the fact that not everybody wants to play their games on a tablet lol


----------



## Nodonn (Mar 16, 2012)

1) Tablets have no buttons, nobody in their right mind would play a game on that.

2) What do tablets have? Some flash games and maybe a port of a twenty year old SNES game?

Tablets aren't taking over consoles anytime soon.


----------



## dream (Mar 16, 2012)

And hopefully they never do.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 16, 2012)

Tablets have touch controls and decent graphics already, actually.

But they are still ass and should never be used for gaming.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 28, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Hey guys, it's time for some rumors.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 28, 2012)

If they made a PS4 it would suck, cost 100,000 dollars, not play anything, and require you to pay a monthly fee just for owning the console--Internet connectivity is *extra*.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 28, 2012)




----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 28, 2012)

I could see that.

Unfortunately.


nb4 they require an activation fee to play games you just bought.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 28, 2012)

That's not a mic btw and the other woman is planning something.


----------



## dream (Mar 28, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> If they made a PS4 it would suck, cost 100,000 dollars, not play anything, and require you to pay a monthly fee just for owning the console--Internet connectivity is *extra*.



Now now, don't be so pessimistic.    



Malvingt2 said:


> lolimage



Lol.


----------



## LMJ (Mar 28, 2012)

I swear to God, if the new systems don't allow for used games to be played, the I WILL NOT be buying them. Either that, or I will wait a few months for the system to become modded and I won't have to worry bout that shit.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 28, 2012)

And then Sony will either pull lawsuit out of its arse again, or simply block you 


Unfortunately if this IS true, then the industry has basically become more and more like a dictator, treating players simply as assets to maintain their money flow as opposed to actual gamers or players.

I should hope that if this is indeed true, people will protest it. 

Even as i say that, i know its not especially different to steam, but atleast then, your guaranteed to have an internet connection , not so with a console. Slicing out half of your market to get phantom "used sales" even though logic would say that gamers will simply buy less games instead of buying what they would usually use for used games on new 

Also, if gamestop goes under because of that, then basically that cuts out a huge portion of the NA market as well


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 28, 2012)

PS4, let's review:

1) Online Activation for all game purchasess (9.99 per activation)
2) Monthly PS4 Premium Fee (19.99)
3) Yearly Internet Connectivty Fee (99.99)
4) No used games.
5) No PSN carryover from PS3
6) PSVita Connectivty Fee (9.99 per month)
7) Optional MMO fees (9.99 - 29.99)
8) One-time DVD/Blu-Ray player functionality activation fee (59.99)

Suggest Retail Price: $1,999.99


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 28, 2012)

Lol, a  middle of the road southern islands GPU, hell even a high end one, would cost way less than the Cell did. 

So i wonder why they didn't just go that route with the PS3 and save money on it 


But i guess that's Sony for you if they are just now thinking of recouping costs in such a miserable way


----------



## dream (Mar 28, 2012)

> So i wonder why they didn't just go that route with the PS3 and save money on it



They didn't expect it to not be worth it.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 28, 2012)

They were trying to be cutting edge and innovative.


At least Blu-Ray was an okay idea.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 28, 2012)

what's the point of trying to be cutting edge if it doesn't reap any rewards outside of your own studios  Was it supposed to be some kind of backwards advertisement or something?

"Unlock the power of the Cell when you come work for Sony!"


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 28, 2012)

Maybe they were trying to go out of business even then. 


Very long-term strategy.


----------



## KidTony (Mar 28, 2012)

I can live without backwards compatability. I want it desperatly, but if it comes to it, i can live without it. No used games = never buying your console, period. No compromise.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 28, 2012)

I think that's also the stickler for me too  its like you don't even own your games anymore and can't do with them what you want


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 28, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I think that's also the stickler for me too  *its like you don't even own your games anymore and can't do with them what you want*


Because that is what it is.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Mar 28, 2012)

KidTony said:


> I can live without backwards compatability. I want it desperatly, but if it comes to it, i can live without it. No used games = never buying your console, period. No compromise.



I'll be surprised if there's a good backwards compatibility with either the PS4 or XBox3.

Doing it in hardware will be expensive (as the PS3 learned), and doing it with software will be cludgy (as both systems learned).

I'd guess neither will bother (perhaps make it easier for developers to update the games and make them available in the online stores, though people that already own the games won't like that option).


----------



## Superrazien (Mar 28, 2012)

I predict further Nintendo dominance. Microsoft and Sony will probably make it extremely hard, or impossible to play used games. Nintendo wont, and because of that Nintendo will get all the gamers and non gamers.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 28, 2012)

I'd say the Xbox has a shot, as the whole reason Microsoft had that kerfuffle with Nvidia was the reason why 360 had to deal with xbox emulation 

I doubt they'd want to go through that again, they seem to have AMD on lock. Sony is in a completely different position, as emulating their PS3 games directly would mean they'd have to have a cell processor in every one of their ps4's, not ideal for a tech not worth the money 


Basically, the new xbox would be compatible with 360 because they share the same type of hardware gpu(AMD), PS4 would not have the same luck.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 28, 2012)

If they only upgraded the hardware there wouldn't be any issue.


----------



## dream (Mar 28, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> If they only upgraded the hardware there wouldn't be any issue.



That is what they do already.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 28, 2012)

Interesting assessment.


----------



## blackbird (Mar 29, 2012)

They better not name it Orbis.

Even Pl4ystation is better than that.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 29, 2012)

Its just a codename probably. Of course i could be wrong


----------



## Kishido (Mar 29, 2012)

If the rumors are true about the

- You have to be locked on at PSN 
- You can't play used games cuz games will be locked to a single account
- No backwards to PS3 (Seriously it already sucks with the PS3)

Fuck it... I'm out Sony


----------



## Vault (Mar 29, 2012)

What about if you dont have internet connection? Fuck you Sony.


----------



## Kishido (Mar 29, 2012)

What about if some friend comes to me with his new game... Oh wait... we can't play it cuz it is locked on his PS account.

What about 2nd class games where people actu


----------



## Vault (Mar 29, 2012)

Say you are switching providers and got a new game, oh wait you can't play. Lol its like Sony wants to go bankrupt, the decisions they have been making lately are just awful.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 29, 2012)

I can understand BC being removed, the cell processor is useless, PS3 will continue to be around for many years, and its just generally not worth having it installed into every PS4.

On the other hand, anti piracy measures i can't live with. This is only an attempt to attack consumers, the used industry is not hurting an industry that makes 18 billion in the US alone every year


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 29, 2012)

Yes it is.

They could be making 20 billions.


----------



## dream (Mar 29, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Yes it is.
> 
> They could be making 20 billions.



Exactly, a decent amount of people who used to buy used games will start buying new games if the used game market is killed.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 29, 2012)

It's just like anything else: driven by greed.

Piracy = bad.

Not because it "breaks the law" but because it takes a potential profit gain of 0.0001% from the company.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 29, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Exactly, a decent amount of people who used to buy used games will start buying new games if the used game market is killed.



Or, the more sane thing will happen, and people will simply buy less new games in general  Or move to different platform Hink about it, steam is doing excellent right now. Why? They aren't used. Its because they are CHEAP and AFFORDABLE 

The reason why people buy used in the first place is because the games are cheap and affordable. Unless the console manufacturers make their games cheaper than they are right now, people are not going to simply blow all their money on games.

This "1 used sale is one less new sale" argument is ridiculous i swear


----------



## dream (Mar 29, 2012)

Some people will certainly  do what you said but there are gamers who would start buying new games if used games disappear and they probably won't be a minority of former user game buyers.



> This "1 used sale is one less new sale" argument is ridiculous i swear



It is.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 29, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> This "1 used sale is one less new sale" argument is ridiculous i swear



It's like the one pirated game = one lost sale argument


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 29, 2012)

They deserve to go bankrupt.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Mar 29, 2012)

I really wanted to believe that the "anti-used games" thing was just another bullshit rumor but now that it's popped up for both the Nextbox and PS4 I can't help but think there's some truth behind it.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 29, 2012)

Whelp, we'll have to see to know  r 

All i knows is, Nintendo will have a valued customer if it turns out to be true


----------



## EvilMoogle (Mar 29, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> I really wanted to believe that the "anti-used games" thing was just another bullshit rumor but now that it's popped up for both the Nextbox and PS4 I can't help but think there's some truth behind it.


There's no doubt that there are market forces that would _like_ to kill rentals.

That doesn't mean that there is any truth to the rumors as far as what Sony(/Microsoft) has planned.

Of course for that matter the rumors might be leaked by Sony(/Microsoft) just to see what the public reaction would be to it.


----------



## Scott Pilgrim (Mar 29, 2012)

The possibility of not being able to buy used games would suck, not because "OH NOES IT SO EXPENSIVE 1!ONOENOE1!!"

but because a lot of the times, buying used it the only way to get older games that are harder to find.

Or you know, you get a new game, and can't bring it to your friend's place, or you happen to not have internet.

Other than that, whatever.

I don't buy many games, and when I do, I usually buy them on release day, so I can't really buy used.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 30, 2012)

There are many reasons why people buy used  its a complicated issue


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 30, 2012)

I buy used because it's cheaper and/or has a better return policy at Gamestop.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 30, 2012)

Well there you go, people have plenty of reasons 

I'm not sure what the industry's actual charge against consumers is besides us being a parasite bleeding them dry. More like the other way around


----------



## dream (Mar 30, 2012)

> I'm not sure what the industry's actual charge against consumers is besides us being a parasite bleeding them dry.



Well, used game sales are rather painful to games that haven't covered the cost of making that game.  None of the revenue for that game goes to the publisher and if enough people have purchased used copies of such a game I can see why publishers would hate it.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 30, 2012)

That's the same argument the recording industry says about piracy 

The difference is, as i've said, that one used game sale does not = one lost new sale. Banning used does not do anything to necessarily make the developers get any more money for development costs, especially considering that a majority share of that money goes to the publisher anyway and not directly to the developer who makes the game 

All i can think about is the concentrated effort by the big name publishers to squeeze the consumer out of their own wallets by taking way their rights one by one.


----------



## dream (Mar 30, 2012)

What have I done? 

I know that one used game sale does not equal one lost new sale but those publishers probably believe that at least some people will buy a new copy of the game if the used copy isn't available and that's enough for them to want to kill used games.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 30, 2012)

Which is why its stupid 

because your basically pissing off 50% of your install base just to get some hypothetical dollars 

Its sickening. And it alienates a further part of the base who don't have internet connections, as the CD "registration" will require an internet connection by default.  So basically, anyone who wants to play a game who don't have internet connections(there are a lot of areas like that) are shit out of luck.

I can't believe how pissed i am about this.

At this rate, consumers would be better off going to PC as that's what the console manufacturers are trying to force on you anyway, without the lower prices of things like steam.


----------



## Lemmy (Mar 30, 2012)

Cool! Sure, the consoles will be awesome but if they cost 1000$...I will not buy one of them. Can't wait to seethe graphics!


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 30, 2012)

Better pre-order all your games and hope they have your favorites sealed and in-stock.


Or you're fucked.


----------



## DedValve (Mar 30, 2012)

This just in, PS4 will not have physical copies of games, instead you must insert your credit card directly into the system to purchase your games and they will all have always online drm and online passess. Even the single player ones.

Oh and PS4 will eat your credit card btw. Literally. 

More news when we get back.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 30, 2012)

If you run out of money the PS4 self-destructs then you have to buy a new one.


----------



## dream (Mar 30, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> If you run out of money the PS4 self-destructs then you have to buy a new one.



The new one will charge a 25% replacement fee.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Mar 30, 2012)

On top of the SRP?


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 30, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> The new one will charge a 25% replacement fee.



Then you have to pay for all of the services again after that.


----------



## Sephiroth (Apr 1, 2012)

Hmm, doesn't getting rid of used games encourage more piracy?


----------



## Lamb (Apr 1, 2012)

Just out of curiosity, is there a compromise that game manufacturers and retailers could make, that you would see as enough to justify limited functionality or non-functionality on used games?


----------



## dream (Apr 1, 2012)

Sephiroth said:


> Hmm, doesn't getting rid of used games encourage more piracy?



If it is sufficiently difficult to pirate a game on the consoles then that option will likely be too much for most gamers, in any case I can see some people switching to pirating games but major will take it up the ass and buy new games from now on.


----------



## Canute87 (Apr 1, 2012)

I buy used games because sometimes i can't find the new ones. It's not like companies are going to continuously make the games they create. Then what?


----------



## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Apr 1, 2012)

I most definitely won't be buying the PS4/Orbis or the New Xbox if they're pulling this bullshit to stop used games. If they did, then they're gonna lose many of their customers(Atleast the ones who don't thoughtlessly dick ride them) I don't get why they're going through so much trouble to stop used games... It's not even *illegal*. And in the end, their efforts will be in vain and cause more trouble than it's worth. 

Well, I've said it before, I'll say it again... It looks like the gaming age is heading into it's own great depression... If these rumors really are true then it may be possible that we'll see another  Video game crash.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Apr 1, 2012)

It's total cobblers, not going to happen.


----------



## Velocity (Apr 1, 2012)

Of course it ain't going to happen. Used game sales are a huge problem, but it's a problem for publishers not console makers. Their job is to create a console that'll sell like hotcakes and no retailer will stock the damn thing if it auto-blocks used games, so they'd just be shooting themselves in the foot.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Apr 1, 2012)

Velocity said:


> Of course it ain't going to happen. Used game sales are a huge problem, but it's a problem for publishers not console makers. Their job is to create a console that'll sell like hotcakes and no retailer will stock the damn thing if it auto-blocks used games, so they'd just be shooting themselves in the foot.


So does that mean nintendo is 50/50?


----------



## Velocity (Apr 1, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> So does that mean nintendo is 50/50?



Nintendo doesn't care about used sales. Their stuff millions regardless.


----------



## Aruarian (Apr 1, 2012)

Console makers DO care about in-house studios, though.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Apr 1, 2012)

So whats the BS i'm hearing about the PS4?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 2, 2012)

> *Report : Next Xbox to Require Permanent internet connection*





Lol, this is why we won't listen to rumors children.

See i can do it too.

"Rumor has it that the next Xbox is codenamed CONDOR and has 7 taiwanese hamsters powering the fan!"


----------



## LMJ (Apr 3, 2012)

Lawls another reason to not get the new system if it requires constant internet connection. There goes a good portion of your buyers.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 3, 2012)

I think with the rumors it is possible that the next consoles will require it.


It's an outside chance, granted, but possible.


And a monthly fee.


----------



## Superrazien (Apr 3, 2012)

If Sony and Microsoft do this it will no doubly mean the end of Gamestop. Which really sucks think of all those Job losses, that's the last thing our economy needs right now.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 3, 2012)

Maybe we can write Obama a letter.


----------



## Gunners (Apr 3, 2012)

If that occurs I will not buy a next generation console. As things stand I am already losing interest in video games, at least games that have been released in the later part of the 00s onwards. 

I find online gaming to be the bane of video gaming it has introduced so much crap into my gaming experience that makes me reluctant to pick up the fucking game. I don't play games online and I'd like a system where I can just put the game in the machine without being prompted to make system updates and all that other crap. 

Also lol at the idea of needing to constant internet access. I suppose if you're a kid who relies on mummy and daddy to pay all of your bills the thought of all your games getting locked down because you can't afford your monthly bills is alien.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 3, 2012)

Online capability has made gaming different. Developers are now more lazy, publishers are more greedy, and gamers are now more angrier than ever 

Something needs to give


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 3, 2012)

Next gen games will also all be $99.99.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 3, 2012)

Why not $100.00?


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 3, 2012)

It cannot be even. That's the first law of pricing.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 3, 2012)

I don't understand what the deal is with that


----------



## dream (Apr 3, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I don't understand what the deal is with that



It's bad luck for the price to be even.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Apr 3, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I don't understand what the deal is with that


It hinges on the universal truth that people are dumb.

When people see a price like "$4.99" a fair chunk of people think "$4" and thus think it's cheaper than a "$5.00" item would be.

It gets less effective as prices get higher but you can still say "$99.99" is "less than a hundred dollars" and you'll likely get a few people that truncate it all the way to "ninety-something dollars."


----------



## Tyrion (Apr 3, 2012)

PS4 will be cheap.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 3, 2012)

You know what pricing I hate? Gas pricing.

Oh, how much per gallon?

3.719999999999999999999999999999999999999


----------



## Tyrion (Apr 3, 2012)

I hope to get the PS4 when it comes out and not wait a whole year like I did with the PS3 because I was still playing my PS2


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Apr 3, 2012)

I sometimes give exactly 99 cents.

it my way of sticking it to the man:ho

i'll get PS4 when it has games..which should be 2 years after launch.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 3, 2012)

I will get the PS4 when I run out of things to play.


Which will be 10 years from now.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Apr 3, 2012)

DedValve said:


> This just in, PS4 will not have physical copies of games, instead you must insert your credit card directly into the system to purchase your games and they will all have always online drm and online passess. Even the single player ones.
> 
> Oh and PS4 will eat your credit card btw. Literally.
> 
> More news when we get back.


----------



## Gunners (Apr 3, 2012)

I will probably not get the PS4. If I look at my PS3 there are stacks of games that I haven't completed even though I find them moderately enjoyable. 

Actually prefer games like Brick breaker and Pong nowadays.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Apr 3, 2012)

Gunners said:


> I will probably not get the PS4. If I look at my PS3 there are stacks of games that I haven't completed even though I find them moderately enjoyable.
> 
> Actually prefer games like Brick breaker and Pong nowadays.



I'm actually going back and playing old GBA games I missed.
The good ones are better than many of the games now.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 3, 2012)

GBA > PS3.

Canon?


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Apr 3, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> GBA > PS3.
> 
> Canon?



Pretty much


----------



## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Apr 3, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> GBA > PS3.
> 
> Canon?



lolno                                      .


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 3, 2012)

It's hard for me to quantify. I don't remember half the games on GBA.

I know this much for sure:

GBA Castlevania >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PS3 CV.


----------



## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Apr 3, 2012)

Well, DBZ Super sonic Warriors was an GBA game and it was a helluva lot better than Dragonball Z: Ultimate Tenkaichi. I'll give you that.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 3, 2012)

Super Sonic warriors was a great game, i would play it all the time on emulator in highschool


----------



## Kaitou (Apr 3, 2012)

I read some of the thread.

Guys, let's not forget that you can active your PS3 up to 2 systems now, and not 5. (Since this new update has been implemented into the PSVita, the PS4 will probably have it too). 

So additionally we'll have this issue + DMR. 

Seriously, I call bullshit.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Apr 4, 2012)

I hope they do this shit. I would love to see everyone move to Nintendo.


----------



## Skywalker (Apr 4, 2012)

Spartan1337 said:


> Well, DBZ Super sonic Warriors was an GBA game and it was a helluva lot better than Dragonball Z: Ultimate Tenkaichi. I'll give you that.


Could be worse.

Could the possible DBZ Kinect in the making.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 4, 2012)

> *Anonymous devs - New consoles means twice increased development costs*



Now we know why the next gen is going to be so greedy. Not because of piracy or "the threat of used games"or any of that shit. Because, the publishers are angry that they'll have to fork out more money based on rapidly changing conditions as a result of new consoles 

Of course if that's the case they are making, then this type of gaming will surely eat itself in no time at all 

Again, this is as much a rumor as the "Wii u is weaker than the 360/PS3" one, but let's see for ourselves. It makes sense though that costs would go up, but for me, not to this degree.


----------



## dream (Apr 4, 2012)

I doubt that the costs will double.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Apr 4, 2012)

Wii U rumor for November 18 launch has some legs guys..


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 4, 2012)

Is that correct!?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Apr 4, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Is that correct!?



Gamestop e-mail is backing up such rumor..


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 4, 2012)

They also said Diablo 3 would release in like March of last year.


----------



## Kaitou (Apr 4, 2012)

at the Wii U

I'll probably get one after all this crap going on.


----------



## Doge (Apr 8, 2012)

Wii U?  Xbox 720?



Please, I'll keep my 360 until at least 2015/2016.  There is no reason to shell out an insane amount of cash for a console that probably won't be user friendly.  Heck, I'll stick with my n64.


----------



## Corruption (Apr 8, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> There is no reason to shell out an insane amount of cash for a console that probably won't be user friendly.



Why wouldn't they be user friendly?


----------



## Mider T (Apr 8, 2012)

Wii U releasing so soon without a concrete date is ballsy, gg Nintendo.


----------



## dream (Apr 8, 2012)

Mider T said:


> Wii U releasing so soon without a concrete date is ballsy, gg Nintendo.



They probably do have a concrete date, Nintendo probably just wants to keep it a surprise for some reason or another.


----------



## Doge (Apr 8, 2012)

Corruption said:


> Why wouldn't they be user friendly?



It's dependent on whether the rumors are true....

A. No backwards compatibility.

B. Restricted online play, boiling down to online passes and inability to play online with used games.  

C. Restriction of pre-owned games.  That hurts me, Gamestop, and Ebay/Amazon (enjoy getting rid of old games).  This would be a 100% turn off.




If these three things are present in the new generation, I certainly won't be buying any of them anytime soon.


If these three rumors are false, I still probably won't buy a new gen system until a few years after release.


----------



## Doge (Apr 8, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> They probably do have a concrete date, Nintendo probably just wants to keep it a surprise for some reason or another.



Just hope we don't have another Sega Saturn deal happen.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Apr 8, 2012)

Goova said:


> I hope they do this shit. I would love to see everyone move to Nintendo.



Everyone moving to nintendo.....do want.


----------



## dream (Jul 29, 2012)

> It's one of the most bizarre next-gen console leaks yet - a story so strange we still struggle to believe there's any true to it whatsoever. When a Microsoft Durango devkit appeared on an obscure developer forum - for sale at $10,000 no less - nobody quite knew for certain what on earth was going on. The shots depict an anonymous-looking PC tower case, attached to a cheap display and running Matrix-style datastream graphics over an unconvincing debug launcher. The obvious conclusion drawn by many was that it was an unambiguous fake. Intrigued, Digital Foundry reached out to the source of the leak, and followed up the story with multiple developers working on next-gen projects. The uniform response was startling: apparently, these shots are the real deal.
> 
> The devkit itself is an anonymous-looking black box, said by one next-gen developer to contain parts that have much in common with a modern "standard gaming PC". The shots depict a dashboard reminiscent of the current Xbox 360 test kit launcher, featuring a basic compiled program, dubbed "D3D11Game1" along with "NuiView" - which on 360 at least is a simple tool for rendering camera views and data from an attached Kinect peripheral. No next-gen Kinect hardware photos have yet to surface, but it is said to be considerably revised from the existing Xbox 360/PC peripheral.
> 
> ...





Well, that's interesting.


----------



## Corruption (Jul 29, 2012)

Would be cool if that's real.


----------



## EpicBroFist (Jul 29, 2012)

4-6 gigs of ram at retail  ..... maybe even 8 

Eight-core CPU


----------



## dream (Jul 29, 2012)

Six gigs of RAM would be excellent, it will really help the console towards the latter part of its life cycle, more would be even better.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

Six gigs(of what? DDR4, GDDR3?) is excellent. 8 Core CPU might be a problem for conversions sake. And incase they actually include 360 parts, would make BC almost an impossibility.

Of course i kind of doubt these rumors, as going to Nvidia after all the bullshit with them Microsoft went through last gen would go against all forms of logic and reason. AMD seems like the safest choice.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jul 29, 2012)

So, does this news compare to the 360 in power scaling?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> So, does this news compare to the 360 in power scaling?



Might wanna rephrase that, i'm not sure what you mean


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jul 29, 2012)

Specs?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

You mean how good they are in comparison to 360?  Well its a pretty big leap i have to give it that. Six gigs is still 12 times the amount of ram 360 has. And if we go by previous rumors of the GPU, its like 1.5 tflops or something. Which is not really bad, but that was a rumor connected to AMD's GPU devices, so who knows if that's even true or not.

Hell, nobody knows anything at this point


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jul 29, 2012)

I see. 

And how would this fare with the Wii U's specs?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> I see.
> 
> And how would this fare with the Wii U's specs?



Well regardless, the Wii U was going to be eclipsed. We're talking a 400-450 gflop GPU against a 1500gflop GPU even at the lowest rumor estimates of the nextbox. And with the Wii U having apparently having 1.5gb GDDR3 of ram, compared to 6, that's close to being a drop in the bucket in comparison.

So yeah, they can't really compare.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jul 29, 2012)

True i guess. 

But that doesn't rule out that it could get multiplats from next gen consoles in some way right?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> True i guess.
> 
> But that doesn't rule out that it could get multiplats from next gen consoles in some way right?



In the same way activision can use their magic to somehow port MW3 from ps3 and 360 to the Wii, sure. If the company wants it enough, they can probably manage to somehow port their games. 

What'll be a problem for Wii U however, is the continuous rumor that the CPU is actually weaker than the 360's CPU.  An 8 core CPU in the 720 is _insane_. So that just makes ports even less likely. If Wii U can't even keep up with current gen in that regard, that's a problem. It certainly has made multiplats with 360 and PS3 more complicated if Harada's statements are to be believed(he's a pretty trusty guy).


----------



## Hatifnatten (Jul 29, 2012)

lol xbox **


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jul 29, 2012)

> In the same way activision can use their magic to somehow port MW3 from ps3 and 360 to the Wii, sure. If the company wants it enough, they can probably manage to somehow port their games.
> 
> What'll be a problem for Wii U however, is the continuous rumor that the CPU is actually weaker than the 360's CPU. An 8 core CPU in the 720 is insane. So that just makes ports even less likely. If Wii U can't even keep up with current gen in that regard, that's a problem. It certainly has made multiplats with 360 and PS3 more complicated if Harada's statements are to be believed(he's a pretty trusty guy).



But i'm pretty sure the CPU bottlekneck was fixed with the final dev kit from what a NeoGaf insider said. And since the Wii U's final dev kits were received just around E3 maybe Harada dind't get them yet.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> But i'm pretty sure the CPU bottlekneck was fixed with the final dev kit from what a NeoGaf insider said. And since the Wii U's final dev kits were received just around E3 maybe Harada dind't get them yet.



Which insider are we referring to? Lherre?


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jul 29, 2012)

Either him or Bgassasin i believe.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

Well, we'll see about whether or not it actually happens in the retail release i suppose. In november i guess...

But regardless, even having a CPU AS powerful as 360(and not simply weaker) is an issue for compatibility with the other next gen consoles.

Nintendo isn't going to swap out an entire CPU months before launch after all. All they can do is clock the speeds up a bit on their current CPU. And even then they have to worry about heating and malfunction. So there's still a limit to how much they can "fix" the CPU to not be as weak. Although i find it slightly dubious myself.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jul 29, 2012)

It will happen. *Trust* me.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

I added some things on to my old post


----------



## dream (Jul 29, 2012)

It won't happen, Asakuna.  Don't get your hopes up.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jul 29, 2012)

Who said so?  I'm not saying it's 100% guaranteed, but there is a possibility. But i'm not counting how it will affect multiplats in that factor.


----------



## Corruption (Jul 29, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> What'll be a problem for Wii U however, is the continuous rumor that the CPU is actually weaker than the 360's CPU.  An 8 core CPU in the 720 is _insane_. So that just makes ports even less likely. If Wii U can't even keep up with current gen in that regard, that's a problem. It certainly has made multiplats with 360 and PS3 more complicated if Harada's statements are to be believed(he's a pretty trusty guy).



I'm really questioning the CPU, especially if they're talking about it being an Intel CPU. 8 cores is pretty insane, or maybe they just meant 8 threads? Who knows. Either way rumors are fun.


----------



## Jake CENA (Jul 29, 2012)

8 cores CPU + nvidia GPU? How much do you think M$ will sold this piece of RROD v.20 box for? $3000?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

It would not cost nearly as much as your derision indicates you think it might. It only proves that you don't know much about hardware. Nvidia GPU's are just a line of GPU's like AMD, it doesn't really change the cost at all depending on what they get. Same with an 8 core CPU. Sony had 8 cores in the PS3 CPU 6 years ago.

Also, Microsoft are probably looking at not trying to repeat the RROD fiasco now that they've got the 360 down to PS3 failure rate levels


----------



## Jake CENA (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm just comparing with pc hardware really, since the xbot is relatively another 'pc'

Intel i7 3960x a 6-core cpu costs $1000

if M$ is planning to use a custom nvidia gpu with 2gb ddr5 512bit or more then it would cost another $1000

and for the other parts like the optical drive, ram, case, etc. then it should be around $500.

But this is just me lol. Dont take me seriously.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

You don't know what your talking about bro


----------



## dream (Jul 29, 2012)

TerminaTHOR said:


> I'm just comparing with pc hardware really, since the xbot is relatively another 'pc'
> 
> Intel i7 3960x a 6-core cpu costs $1000
> 
> ...



Implying that Microsoft won't be able to get an 3960x for a cheaper price per unit then us regular consumers do.  Implying that the Microsoft will use that specific CPU when other eight-core cpus are cheaper like this one:


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

Exacta. Corporate mass produced parts are infinitely cheaper than average citizen bought retail units because they are ordered in high supply.

How the eff does one think that these companies have been able to afford cutting edge tech for so long? Because they're just that rich?


----------



## Bungee Gum (Jul 29, 2012)

A better question would be; How the eff does one think that these companies have been able to make a profit using all this expensive cutting edge tech for so long?

They probably get all the parts on sale or even at clearance level prices, cuz they order thousands or tens of thousands  at a time


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jul 29, 2012)

?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

That post flies directly in the face of what Digital Foundry claims is the real deal, because that has AMD as the provider explicitly of 2012 parts . So who the trust?


----------



## dream (Jul 29, 2012)

I'll trust what Digital Foundry reported.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

DF hasn't really been all that reliable. Richard tried to shit people into thinking that his "reliable sources" had Samaritan running on Microsoft hardware already in dev kits months ago. Since then he's changed his tune completely.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jul 29, 2012)

Yeah DF's sources aren't always the shizz that people tend to make them out to be, at times.


----------



## dream (Jul 29, 2012)

Really?  I had no idea.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

All we have are rumors and guesswork right now  my best advice is to wait


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jul 29, 2012)

So i'm guessing the earlier leaks of the dev kits are almost invalid then?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 29, 2012)

Probably, yeah. The only thing we have to go on is the leaked Microsoft documents. And even those are vastly out of date.


----------



## Doge (Jul 29, 2012)

If the new xbox is under $500 I'll seriously consider it...a year or two after release.  I'm not buying a brand new console only to get duped by games costing more than $50 a pop when they won't even be that high quality until the devs can really make good use of the new system.

For instance, the PS Vita is $250 for wifi and $300 for 3g not including memory, games, etc.  And it isn't even moddable like a psp is.  Heck, the game library isn't that amazing yet.  In one year, more titles will be out, software will be updated and will offer better functionality, and it won't be as expensive.


----------



## Corruption (Jul 29, 2012)

I don't believe any of this shit. Although it's fun to talk about these hypothetical systems.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jul 29, 2012)

You mean the one i just posted?


----------



## Doge (Jul 29, 2012)

Corruption said:


> I don't believe any of this shit. Although it's fun to talk about these hypothetical systems.



It's coming man.  Xbox 360 turns 10 November of 2015.  That's a little over 3 years away.  If anything, this has been one of the longest generations I'm aware of.  PS2 came out 2000 while PS1 was out in 1994.  PS3 came out 2006.  The new generation aside from (arguably) the Wii U, 3DS, and PS Vita has not even really been officially announced yet.  That's roughly another 2 years of development time left.  

This generation has been around for a LONG time, and probably has both grown the console capabilities A LOT and had the most room for improvements on these consoles, but as the computers get faster, eventually these machines are going to step up like they did Xbox to 360.  It WILL happen, just not for a few years.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jul 30, 2012)




----------



## DedValve (Jul 30, 2012)

To be fair though that sock is still more accurate than anything Kotaku releases. 

Always online connection and no used games ever for the win!


----------



## Alicia (Jul 31, 2012)

I hope the PS4 stays away. The PS3 currently has an amazing library of games, but when the PS4 hits the shelves, game devs are gonna concentrate on the new gen and stop developing for the previous gen, and I don't plan on starting a console museum.


----------



## Golden Circle (Jul 31, 2012)

If I worked at Sony or Microsoft, I would be waiting for more 3D-capable tvs to hit the market before putting any thought into developing a new console. Since both 360 and PS3 are 1080p consoles, there isn't another killer feature coming our way anytime soon other than 3D.

Oh, and the next PS3 will probably be a custom Sony chip that looks a lot like a multi-core ARM SoC with NVidia Tegra graphics, if current hardware trends are anything to go by.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jul 31, 2012)

^ As far as we know, its AMD. And 360 and PS3 being 1080p consoles are "relative". Neither of them actually use 1080p for 99% of games.

Everyone is talking about how devs are abandoning consoles because this cycle has gone on for too long. Why would they wait more years and make the issue worse


----------



## dream (Jul 31, 2012)

3D is crap, I would rather have Sony and Microsoft ignore it completely.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jul 31, 2012)

Does anyone even care about on-glasses 3D anymore? These days when it's bought up, people don't even want to give a darn about it.

Besides, the only 3D i like is on the 3DS. Thats it.


----------



## Jak N Blak (Jul 31, 2012)

I need my 60+ players Battlefield 4!!!!!!!

So bring on that Ps 4!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## dream (Jul 31, 2012)

Jak N Blak said:


> I need my 60+ players Battlefield 4!!!!!!!
> 
> So bring on that Ps 4!!!!!!!!!!!



Watch PS4 still be limited to 24 players for BF games on it.


----------



## DedValve (Jul 31, 2012)

Watch there be no backwards compatibility on PS4 and possibly 720 as well


----------



## Jak N Blak (Jul 31, 2012)

I will kill a goat if the Ps4 can't handle 60+ players. Hell, that's just the minimum. 5 years in it should be able to handle 120+

!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jul 31, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> ^ As far as we know, its AMD. And 360 and PS3 being 1080p consoles are "relative". Neither of them actually use 1080p for 99% of games.
> 
> Everyone is talking about how devs are abandoning consoles because this cycle has gone on for too long. Why would they wait more years and make the issue worse



So everyone flocks to the wii U of course.


----------



## Alicia (Jul 31, 2012)

DedValve said:


> Watch there be *no backwards compatibility* on PS4 and possibly 720 as well



omg that's quite possible


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 1, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Watch PS4 still be limited to 24 players for BF games on it.


The sad thing is that it doesn't take all that much extra work for a developer to have a potentially unlimited number of players on the current generation of consoles, simply by using dynamic memory allocation instead of using a static array with an arbitary low limit. Sure, a static array is always easier, but that means you're a lazy programmer who should get fired.

It's almost like insisting that all file paths be no more than 1024 characters long. And as anyone who done a manual backup knows, that idea doesn't last very long in practice.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Aug 23, 2012)

*Remedy : "The Next generation consoles are a "quantum leap" compared to 360 and PS3*



> Alan Wake developer, Remedy, is already working on an unannounced next-gen title.
> 
> "Currently, we are working with a relatively small team on a next-gen project," Remedy's head of franchise development, Oskari H?kkinen, told GamesIndustry International. "One question you always ask yourself in this phase is: can the upcoming consoles really be so much better compared to the current gen? I can rest assure you, they are. It's a quantum leap."
> 
> ...






People confirmed to be in contact with next gen hardware = win


----------



## blakstealth (Aug 23, 2012)

A lot of devs are already in development for the "next gen" consoles. 

Has anyone posted about the Next Xbox Devkit that sold for $20,000 on eBay? rofl


----------



## Inuhanyou (Aug 23, 2012)

They haven't posted about it, but i'm sure everyone knows 

To be honest though, it matters very little in regards to what we actually know about the console to be announced


----------



## dream (Aug 23, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> *Remedy : "The Next generation consoles are a "quantum leap" compared to 360 and PS3*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's promising but I need to see more quantifiable statements before I can let myself be excited.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Aug 23, 2012)

"Quantifiable"? 

You mean specific


----------



## Axl Low (Aug 23, 2012)

DedValve said:


> Watch there be no backwards compatibility on PS4 and possibly 720 as well



that would fucken suck


----------



## Inuhanyou (Aug 23, 2012)

Most likely BC for 720, probably next to impossible for PS4 unless they include the cell and a nvidia gpu.


----------



## dream (Aug 23, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> "Quantifiable"?
> 
> You mean specific



I would love for it to be specific but I'll take any number that is thrown out assuming that said number is somewhat close to being accurate.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Aug 23, 2012)

That's almost begging


----------



## dream (Aug 23, 2012)

I really want to know as the discussions that crop up because of such things are highly...entertaining.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Aug 23, 2012)

So, what kind if quantum leap are we talking about? 



> Can't wait for $60 DLC.



Have i seen you before?


----------



## dream (Aug 23, 2012)

Asakuna, I'm personally hoping for at least 4 GBs of RAM for both consoles.


----------



## Rax (Aug 23, 2012)

The future:sanji



blakstealth said:


> A lot of devs are already in development for the "next gen" consoles.
> 
> Has anyone posted about the Next Xbox Devkit that sold for $20,000 on eBay? rofl



Is that Himegami I spy?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Aug 23, 2012)

4gb is the rumored specifications actually of Nextbox, GDDR3 of course. Wii U has 1.5 gb(with 500mb partitioned off for OS resources), so 4x that much would be truly something +______+


----------



## blakstealth (Aug 23, 2012)

Cinnabar Star said:


> The future:sanji
> 
> 
> 
> Is that Himegami I spy?


I was like, "wut," then realized you were talking about my set lol. Never read or watched Maken-ki! though.


----------



## dream (Aug 23, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> 4gb is the rumored specifications actually of Nextbox, GDDR3 of course. Wii U has 1.5 gb(with 500mb partitioned off for OS resources), so 4x that much would be truly something +______+



It will certainly be interesting to see what developers will do with that much RAM besides the usual higher textures.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Aug 24, 2012)

well apparently luminous needs a lot of ram to use the engine in a comparable fashion with agni, so we'll see


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Aug 24, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> It will certainly be interesting to see what developers will do with that much RAM besides the usual higher textures.



Probably jack and shit.


----------



## Slice (Aug 24, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Most likely BC for 720, probably next to impossible for PS4 unless they include the cell and a nvidia gpu.



I dont think either will have BC.

The PS4 would need the old chipset making it insanely costly

The Xbox has been running on DVD's so far. This gen one DVD barely is enough for most games and more and more need several discs. Since i doubt MS will do Sony the favor and pay licensing fees for a BD drive they will either use no drive at all and do everything via an online store or include a flash drive.


----------



## blakstealth (Aug 24, 2012)

I think their next console will support Blu-ray.

That's what the documents that were leaked a month or two ago suggested.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Aug 24, 2012)

What type of disk format 720 supports doesn't have anything to do with 720 having BC Slice.  Do you actually think a game company can not afford to support multiple disk formats?   How do you think Wii U is going to support hardware enabled BC even though they are using modified BR? Or how do you think PS3 has been able to play BC of all PS1 and PS2 game disks regardless of which kind of disk they were using? It has nothing to do with the disk format, but the actual hardware of the console.


----------



## Death-kun (Aug 24, 2012)

Here comes... the future!


----------



## dream (Aug 24, 2012)

EvilMoogle said:


> Personally I hate it but it's definitely the way the industry is going.  Whether Sony/Microsoft will help encourage the issue I don't know (though I have noticed the trend of full games being available on the PSN).



It'll certainly end up that way, publishers are going to love how it kills the used games market, but I feel that it's a bit off from being realized.  Perhaps the generation after the upcoming one will be the generation that does away with disks/other storage devices.


----------



## Slice (Aug 24, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> What type of disk format 720 supports doesn't have anything to do with 720 having BC Slice.  Do you actually think a game company can not afford to support multiple disk formats?   How do you think Wii U is going to support hardware enabled BC even though they are using modified BR? Or how do you think PS3 has been able to play BC of all PS1 and PS2 game disks regardless of which kind of disk they were using? It has nothing to do with the disk format, but the actual hardware of the console.



All i'm saying is if the 720 happens to not include a disc drive at all then there wont be BC because of that. And i still think the next console will have a flash drive or no drive at all.


----------



## Jake CENA (Aug 24, 2012)

Gaming will be dead if they decide to go full digital.


----------



## dream (Aug 24, 2012)

TerminaTHOR said:


> Gaming will be dead if they decide to go full digital.



I doubt it, people will learn to adapt/deal with it.  I exclusively only buy digital copies of games these days and I'm not the only one.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Aug 24, 2012)

I won't be one of those people then, since i prefer retail disc > digital anytime unless there's a certain occasion. In fact i'd quit gaming and would definitely stop buying consoles if they were to move forward to that. But thats a big "if".


----------



## Inuhanyou (Aug 24, 2012)

They arent going to forgo a disk drive as early as next year, get with the program fools 

Internet speeds are nowhere near fast enough, its like saying Microsoft and Sony both want to go the way of the PSP Go, not to mention that this would be completely HDD dependent


----------



## Rax (Aug 25, 2012)

blakstealth said:


> I think their next console will support Blu-ray.
> 
> That's what the documents that were leaked a month or two ago suggested.



I read it purely for Himegami:33


----------



## dream (Nov 9, 2012)

Another round of rumors:



> Our source told us that Sony is only calling the machine Orbis, and is not using the words “PlayStation 4″ in these meetings at all.
> 
> Orbis, we were told today, is based on the AMD’s A10 APU series. An APU (Accelerated Processing Unit) is a combined CPU and GPU.
> 
> ...





Matches with older rumors in some things especially the RAM amount.


----------



## Tony Lou (Nov 9, 2012)

I grew up with the PSOne, PS2 and finally PS3.

It won't be any different now.


----------



## Death-kun (Nov 10, 2012)

That means the PS4 will probably end up having 4 GB of RAM. Not bad at all.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 10, 2012)

TerminaTHOR said:


> Gaming will be dead if they decide to go full digital.



He's right you know.


----------



## dream (Nov 10, 2012)

Depends on when it happens, if it does digital in the upcoming generation then yes.  Two or three generations from now?  That's a different story.


----------



## Dark Knight Spike (Nov 10, 2012)

At this point in time it's still a little early to bring out new systems. That could just be me and my cheapness talking


----------



## Golden Circle (Nov 10, 2012)

They really should go with a solid state drive. There is no excuse.

Also they'll need a lot more than 8Gb when you have a game the size of a BD-ROM.

If it were me I would go with a ARM SoC rather than the x86 APU route.

Oh well. It's only rumors at this point.


----------



## Grape (Nov 10, 2012)

Dark Knight Spike said:


> At this point in time it's still a little early to bring out new systems. That could just be me and my cheapness talking




This generation is already very dated. PS4 is great news. The "Ten year plan" idea is kind of lame in an electronics industry.

It will suck if it's ridiculously priced, but I can't see it being too bad.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Nov 10, 2012)

> The “ultimate goal” for the hardware, we were told, is for it to be able to run 1080p60 games in 3D


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 10, 2012)

Trolls, trolls everywhere


----------



## Malvingt2 (Nov 10, 2012)

I hope that the 720 bring jet pack.. me flying and playing my games is the future.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Nov 13, 2012)

*Epic expects next-gen dev costs to double.*



> Games for the next-generation consoles and PCs will come with suitably next-generation price tags. In a keynote address at the Montreal International Game Summit today, attended by GamesIndustry International, Epic Games chief technology officer Tim Sweeney said he expects Epic to be able to build next-gen titles for ?only about double the cost? of games from the start of the current generation.
> 
> While the bump in budget is significant, Sweeney said it could have been worse. He talked about Epic's first next-gen tech demo, a 2011 clip called Samaritan that showed off Direct X 11 technology in a modified version of Unreal Engine 3. While Sweeney said Epic was enthusiastic about the results, the company was ?greatly worried? about the cost. Although the clip was just under three minutes in length, it took four months and a team of 30 people to create.
> 
> ?If we extrapolate that into creating an entire game, we were worried that the cost would go up by a factor of three or four or even five in the next generation,? Sweeney said. ?And of course, we felt that was not acceptable.?


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 13, 2012)

Double, ahahhaha nope.
A single game shouldn't break a company.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Nov 13, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Double, ahahhaha nope.
> A single game shouldn't break a company.



Yet it happens constantly. The industry grew too much for its own good.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Nov 13, 2012)

Every time any western developer opens his mouth about the industry it's always about either graphix and how much that graphix costs. Never about the intent of making good games regardless.
Typical.


----------



## HK-47 (Nov 13, 2012)

Anybody remember this?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Nov 13, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Double, ahahhaha nope.
> A single game shouldn't break a company.



*Darksiders 2*

Look at THQ now, about to be gone, matter of time.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Nov 13, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> *Darksiders 2*
> 
> Look at THQ now, about to be gone, matter of time.



That's not a good example though, any other company and Darksiders 2 wouldn't have killed them, it had a plus mil sales figure. The company was and still is doomed to begin with.


----------



## Axl Low (Nov 13, 2012)

HK-47 said:


> Anybody remember this?



ah yes the double dildorang
its was sony's way of trying to appeal to female gamers

Set it on vibrate and a gamer girl and her gf could do the best co op game ever pek


----------



## Malvingt2 (Nov 13, 2012)

Deathbringerpt said:


> That's not a good example though, any other company and Darksiders 2 wouldn't have killed them, it had a plus mil sales figure. The company was and still is doomed to begin with.



I guess so.. It is not the best example but it was there last hope.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 13, 2012)

What devs need to realize is that they actually need to clean up their gross mismanagement. You can't spend half your development budget on pure marketing folks, that's why your dying.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Nov 13, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> I guess so.. It is not the best example but it was there last hope.



Only if the game sold like, 5 million or something.

Wasn't gonna happen.


----------



## dream (Nov 13, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> What devs need to realize is that they actually need to clean up their gross mismanagement. You can't spend half your development budget on pure marketing folks, that's why your dying.



I can see why publishers would market a game to hell and back, it has the chance of enabling a game to reach more success than it would have had with minimal marketing.  The success of marketing for games like Call of Duty and Battlefield should be readily apparent.

Still, these costs are absurd.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 13, 2012)

Bioshock was made on a budget of 15 mil and is still one of the greatest games of this generation, that should be enough for any game worth its own salt(btw, that's cheaper than the budget of FFX back in 2000, 20 million). You should not be spending 50, 100, 150 mill on these kinds of projects, that's absolutely irresponsible


----------



## Violent by Design (Nov 13, 2012)

Hatifnatten said:


> Every time any western developer opens his mouth about the industry it's always about either graphix and how much that graphix costs. Never about the intent of making good games regardless.
> Typical.



What should they say "this game gonna be gud"?


----------



## dream (Nov 13, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Bioshock was made on a budget of 15 mil and is still one of the greatest games of this generation, that should be enough for any game worth its own salt(btw, that's cheaper than the budget of FFX back in 2000, 20 million). You should not be spending 50, 100, 150 mill on these kinds of projects, that's absolutely irresponsible



It's just as irresponsible as throwing massive budgets at movies.  Is there a lot of wasteful spending?  Yes.  We don't need professional orchestras making soundtracks for videogames nor do we need Hollywood actors voicing characters in videogames.  We do not need graphics that push the limits of what a system can do.  All of those things are just attractions designed to entice gamers over to them.  Often these big budgets pay off.  Modern Warfare 2, Halo 3, Skyrim, Gears of Wars 3, and other massively successful games are good examples of these budgets paying off.  Do I think that they are a good idea?  Not really, they can be devastating to a company if a game flops and the idea of budgets increasing isn't a pleasant thought.  At the very least it'll be interesting to see how the market develops with the release of these next gen consoles.


----------



## Blunt (Nov 27, 2012)

So, they really think people are going to buy just as many/more video games when they're priced at $80-$120 new?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 27, 2012)

They are going to be priced out of the box more, it'll be in DLC or micro-transactions.

Also, i heard that the PS3 is going to be using an APU set up to reduce costs  whether that's a big jump or not depends on what APU they use.

The highest end APU goes up to 2tflops. I'm assuing they aren't going to go that high, maybe a 1.5 tflop APU with higher clocks on the CPU and ram


----------



## Lulu (Nov 27, 2012)

Why does it cost so much to make a game? Is it voice actors, techies,programmers or advertising? These budgets are very high.I really dont know much bout game marketing,bear with me.


----------



## Slice (Nov 27, 2012)

In the 90s games for the Super Nintendo cost between 100 and 120 DM (thats 50 - 60 Euros).
Today games at launch cost between 60 and 70 euros.

So in the last 15-20 years prices have been rather stable.

They may have a way bigger market now but games require so much more money in their production that they need to sell insane numbers to get a good profit out of them. That said i hope next gen games wont be more expensive.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 27, 2012)

biggestluey said:


> Why does it cost so much to make a game? Is it voice actors, techies,programmers or advertising? These budgets are very high.I really dont know much bout game marketing,bear with me.



All that. On top of them wanting to make a tidy profit on top of their revenues


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Nov 29, 2012)

*Bloomberg: Next Xbox planned for 2013 Holiday season (shocking news)*



> Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) will release the next version of its Xbox video-game machine, the top-selling console, in time for the holidays next year, according to people familiar with the company’s plans.
> 
> The new device is planned for Thanksgiving and Christmas sales, said the people, who declined to be identified because the product road map is confidential. The software maker hasn’t decided whether to unveil the new Xbox at an industry event such as the E3 show in June, or a separate event devoted solely to the machine, one of the people said.
> 
> ...


----------



## Hatifnatten (Nov 29, 2012)

Why I'm the only one who's frightened that Sony's main concern for next gen is 3D games...


----------



## dream (Nov 29, 2012)

Not real surprise there.  If it's true then this E3 is going to be a delight...hopefully. 



Hatifnatten said:


> Why I'm the only one who's frightened that Sony's main concern for next gen is 3D games...



You aren't the only one frightened by such a possibility.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 29, 2012)

Apparently there are a few insiders who apparently are corroborating a story about the next xbox having an APU as well as discrete GPU.

If that is correct, then all power bets are off. This thing could reach 3000glfops with that kind of combination


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Nov 29, 2012)

I almost doubt that. 

Either way though, i wonder how this will affect the Wii U/PS4's current stance after release.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 29, 2012)

Why do you doubt that scenario?


----------



## dream (Nov 29, 2012)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Either way though, i wonder how this will affect the Wii U/PS4's current stance after release.



Wii U will be in the same place the Wii was when compared to the 360.  No idea about the PS4.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 29, 2012)

Solaris said:


> Wii U will be in the same place the Wii was when compared to the 360.  No idea about the PS4.



No, never that bad not even then. 
Only thing that could save sony is some tech leap made somehow that's cheap.


Inuhanyou said:


> Apparently there are a few insiders who apparently are corroborating a story about the next xbox having an APU as well as discrete GPU.
> 
> If that is correct, then all power bets are off. This thing could reach 3000glfops with that kind of combination



But would it have games?


----------



## dream (Nov 29, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> But would it have games?



It will have Halo 5 and Halo 6 at the very least.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Nov 29, 2012)

Solaris said:


> Wii U will be in the same place the Wii was when compared to the 360.  No idea about the PS4.



So it will be just fine until it's final years? Cool.  As long as it doesn't become another PS3 then it should do ok, though if Sony doesn't say anything soon then they'll be in third place of launching the console.


----------



## dream (Nov 29, 2012)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> So it will be just fine until it's final years? Cool.



That's an optimistic prediction.  Casual gamers may not flock to the system as much as they did to the Wii.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Nov 29, 2012)

Not as much, and your probably right about the Casual Gamers. But as long as it stands better than the GC then it'll be fine. It's the PS4 that i'm more worried about (not that i'm ignoring the Wii U's future either).


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 29, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> No, never that bad not even then.
> Only thing that could save sony is some tech leap made somehow that's cheap.
> 
> 
> But would it have games?



Well, considering that a majority of third parties have been gearing up for next gen for a while now...and Microsoft itself is working on numerous next gen project...i'd say so


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Nov 29, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Why do you doubt that scenario?



It almost seems kinda far fetched for a console to reach 3000 GFLOPS, since the 720 already seems to have enough going for it with 4-8GB and such (maybe the 1TFLOP thing). But eh, i can't really say.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 29, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Well, considering that a majority of third parties have been gearing up for next gen for a while now...and Microsoft itself is working on numerous next gen project...i'd say so



3rd parties that matter?


----------



## dream (Nov 29, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> 3rd parties that matter?



Third parties that matter are probably the furthest along in preparations for a next gen console.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 29, 2012)

Solaris said:


> Third parties that matter are probably the furthest along in preparations for a next gen console.



I don't really think that's true give me a list


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 29, 2012)

Well we know Remedy is working on a next gen game. We know that Avalanche studios is working on a next gen game, we know that SE is working on next gen games, we know that Epic, Crytek and Dice are all working on next gen games. We know that Ubi soft, Lucasarts and Bioware are working on next gen games...there were probably more?


----------



## dream (Nov 29, 2012)

What about Activision?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 29, 2012)

Obviously, they need to get that COD out next year after all. Probably a cross generational title.

We know Bungie is also working on a next gen game. Respawn is probably also working on a next gen game too.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 29, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Well we know Remedy is working on a next gen game. We know that Avalanche studios is working on a next gen game, we know that SE is working on next gen games, we know that Epic, Crytek and Dice are all working on next gen games. We know that Ubi soft, Lucasarts and Bioware are working on next gen games...there were probably more?



I said ones that matter 
Shooty mc shooty companies don't count and SE is just laughable at this point.
Lucas arts is owned by disney who knows what they will do now.
By companies that matter I mean ones that are actually doing things like platinum games.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Nov 29, 2012)

Cacpcom?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 29, 2012)

Well Kojipuro is working on next gen games as well as current gen games...hm. Besides them and SE, i haven't really heard what any Japanese devs are planning, that's kind of concerning.

I have heard from Capcom, but only in terms of how Ono would design a next gen street fighter no actual indication they were gearing up yet for next gen as a company. They really need to start hiring, outsourcing their IP doesn't always work, they won't survive in the coming landscape being like this


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 29, 2012)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Cacpcom?



If only.
Once they decided to just go fuck themselves up they went off that list despite Mr.wright.
In fact I'm counting the ace attorney series separately altogether
I would have said sega but they are dropping most of their IPs.
Games out of the norm and are good are what I look for and count.


Inuhanyou said:


> Well Kojipuro is working on next gen games as well as current gen games...hm. Besides them and SE, i haven't really heard what any Japanese devs are planning, that's kind of concerning.
> 
> I have heard from Capcom, but only in terms of how Ono would design a next gen street fighter no actual indication they were gearing up yet for next gen as a company. They really need to start hiring, outsourcing their IP doesn't always work, they won't survive in the coming landscape being like this



As stale as everyone says japan is they still tend to put out the most original games so I would be. Not to say we don't but really, we just don't for the most part.
Next gen street fighter? pffttt


----------



## Tony Lou (Nov 30, 2012)

Considering that there's a 5 year gap between each Elder Scrolls game, TES VI is definitely going to be released for the PS4/Whatever the new Xbox is called.


----------



## steveht93 (Nov 30, 2012)

My most anticipated IP next gen is dat fallout and metal gear solid that was confirmed by kojima after ground zeros


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 30, 2012)

i want ZOE 3


----------



## steveht93 (Nov 30, 2012)

Guys check this rumor article about next gen: 




But I'd take it with a grain of salt


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 30, 2012)

It's been debunked.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Nov 30, 2012)

It                 was?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 30, 2012)

Yes, Dual Pixels has a track record of lies. They aren't to be trusted in any scenario for any kind of information. Really you'd think people would be a bit suspicious when "there's a built in projector that's going to show VR on the walls of your house!"/there will be a super dongle that attaches to the PS4 and that allows for BC from PS3!" starts coming up.

They basically just threw all of the shitty patents that Sony and Microsoft have put out over this gen and called it "next gen leaks". Its nothing more than shameless fishing for clicks


----------



## Bungee Gum (Nov 30, 2012)

That dongle thing seems legit though. Smart move on their part if they did that imo


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 30, 2012)

Legitimate in what way? Doesn't make sense now that they have gaikai and PSN for PS2 classics, they aren't going to take away their own revenue stream.


----------



## Jake CENA (Nov 30, 2012)

ROFL sucks for next gen. Majority of dem games are fucking FPS.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 1, 2012)

*Agni's Philosophy runs at 60FPS on a GTX 680, uses 1.8GB VRAM. Can next-gen run it?*



> New article has revealed the specs of the PC that the Agni's Philosophy tech demo was run on: GTX 680, i7-3770K 3.5GHz and 32 GB of RAM. *Apparently the CPU was hardly stressed and it could have run on something much weaker. It also only used 1.8GB of texture data so next gen consoles should have very little problem fitting it onto memory. In terms of anti-aliasing I think it may have used a combination of 8xMSAA and FXAA which is massively impressive if true.*


----------



## dream (Dec 1, 2012)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> *Agni's Philosophy runs at 60FPS on a GTX 680, uses 1.8GB VRAM. Can next-gen run it?*



Interesting, that demo looked very impressive so it's good to see that it was able to run on on a single GPU.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Dec 1, 2012)

Yes possibly at 30 fps


----------



## dream (Dec 1, 2012)

Goova said:


> Yes possibly at 30 fps



It really depends on how crazy Sony or Microsoft go with the specs.  If we take the high end rumors at face value I can easily see that demo running close to 60 fps.


----------



## Corruption (Dec 1, 2012)

It also depends how well they optimize it for the specific console hardware.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 1, 2012)

I'm so awesome, i'm days ahead of official articles 

But seriously, yeah its good to have more information about it going forward.


Post process AA techniques like SMAA and FXAA that free up system resources will be infinitely more important next gen. Lifelike fidelity will dramatically increase, so the blemishes on that illusion will be all the more of an eyesore. MSAA will go the way of the birds


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 1, 2012)

Good afternoon Inu-yasha.

Hey, how would you react if the Nextbox's CPU was spec'd to 1.6Ghz?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 1, 2012)

Doesn't mean anything really  clocks are meaningless without even knowing what kind of CPU is going in


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 1, 2012)

Someone "in the know" posted this 




Basically, clock speeds are _not_ comparable when only using that as the standard to base power on, but that's common sense. You would not compare a CPU from 10 years ago to a modern i7 CPU and say the one 10 years ago was more powerful because it was clocked higher  efficiencies are commonplace, miniaturization and low heat take priority ect.


I think the thing people are more concerned about is the fact that Wii U's CPU more than 10 years old in its design, although there are more than one of them


----------



## dream (Dec 1, 2012)

Durango is probably going to end up being the most powerful of the next gen consoles.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 1, 2012)

True, that makes utmost the logical sense.

Marcan said that the CPU (the one's from the GC modified?) in the Wii U, if clocked higher, would be comparable to the Xenon's in terms of speed and performance. Or so he believes, unless i left something out. Is that really possible given how slow it seems to be?



> Durango is probably going to end up being the most powerful of the next gen consoles.



Next Gen doesn't start until Sony says so.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 1, 2012)

^ That's exactly what he said. So its a question why they actually clocked it significantly slower than Xenon knowing that. Some are speculating it was heating issues concerning the casing, or Nintendo issuing strict guideline limits for power consumption. We don't know at this time


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 1, 2012)

Awesome. 

Then that would mean......it's currently under clocked by Nintendo? 

If thats the case then hopefully Nintendo unlocks it soon, like they did with the 3DS (apparently). Maybe thats the reasons why some of the current gen ports suffered?


----------



## dream (Dec 1, 2012)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Next Gen doesn't start until Sony says so.



It started with the Wii U silly.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 1, 2012)

But it'z not next gen because people said so!!!


----------



## dream (Dec 1, 2012)

Perhaps not in terms of power but for all intents and purposes it is the start of a new set of consoles.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 1, 2012)

And thankfully i was being sarcastic. 

I agree with you by the way.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 1, 2012)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Awesome.
> 
> Then that would mean......it's currently under clocked by Nintendo?
> 
> If thats the case then hopefully Nintendo unlocks it soon, like they did with the 3DS (apparently). Maybe thats the reasons why some of the current gen ports suffered?



That's a bit off the mark.

Remember what i told you about the PSP situation. That ability is *only* used when the speed of the CPU was inherently built to run at a faster speed than the retail unit to begin with. We have no indications or evidence that the Wii U's CPU is in this situation. Merceron is only saying that it would have been the case *had* the Wii U's CPU been clocked higher not that it *could* have been.

Remember, Iwata mentioned "GPGPU" specifically himself as a feature, which means they obviously took into account that the GPU would be picking up the slack for their anemic CPU performance as they built it. Cost may have also been a motivating factor. If they had heating issues in development, it may have been that they would have needed to significantly change apart of the unit in order to control those issues, and it may have not been in Nintendo's budget to either delay the console's launch to fix it, or put out the money to revamp the unit to make it work. 

And simply decided to clock the CPU lower instead and use the already in place GPGPU aspects of the GPU to go the rest of the way.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 1, 2012)

Yes, i know that and understand the rest. 

But still, my point still stands that there could be a possibility (not saying that it can/will happen, i could still be wrong on this) of the scenario being likely. Adding to this here as well, seeing as though as the Wii U's CPU/GPUMhz were apparently increased from their original numbers for devs during their work-in-progresses for the Wii U



> Yeah, i had mentioned it before in this thread a couple pages back. Actually... now i'm not sure anymore if it was lherre or Arkam. I suppose i said it correctly in the original post. (lol, i'm having trouble finding my post back... maybe i just forgot to post it :/ )
> 
> CPU had increased 25%.
> GPU was clocked at 400 MHz.
> ...


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 1, 2012)

400MHZ to 550MHZ is a pretty good jump....atleast on the GPU side, its good that they aren't taking any chances with the design


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 1, 2012)

Wait, you never knew that?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 1, 2012)

I knew it since Merceron posted it. I was just commenting on your post


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 1, 2012)

Oh. 

Still though, where are the likely chances that Nintendo could *at least* increase some speed for third parties along the line later on if the CPU is really that much of a problem for them to have it in parity with the Xenon?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 1, 2012)

I'm not sure. Since we don't know why the CPU is clocked slow besides theories and speculation, those options are unknown.  

just saying that getting anyone's hopes up is probably not smart.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 1, 2012)

Indeed, thats why i'm keeping my expectations in check until further notice despite my optimism.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 1, 2012)

8 DAYS


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 1, 2012)

Ti'll wut?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 1, 2012)

read the link and find out


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 1, 2012)

Oh, it's about some games from here and there that we've already heard announced before? 

Booooooooooooo.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 1, 2012)

......


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 1, 2012)

......


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 1, 2012)

....


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 1, 2012)

.......


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

No doubt Microsoft(and maybe Sony) have been looking at AMD's roadmap, and probably have planned accordingly. Now that we have semi confirmation, the specs are not tethered to the ground with current GPU's :/


----------



## dream (Dec 4, 2012)

The possibility of us seeing a variant of the 8000s series in the next Xbox is exciting.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

Exacta. That line is coming out right in time for the launch. Considering that AMD has probably been working on it while working on Durango in parallel, we should see some very good results based on that ultra modern architecture implemented console wise.

Also, i've heard that they are not using off the shelf kits, but extremely customized, which makes it even better. Now all we need to do is have Microsoft throw in some experimental DX12 features, and we have an already potential beast of a console turning into an even bigger one.

Really, based on some of the information coming out, my initial half pessimistic view of a decent close to 1.5tflop gpu, 4gb of DDR3 ram and reasonable CPU from last year are being blown up to crazy proportions


----------



## Penumbra (Dec 4, 2012)

Radeon HD 8990/GeForce GTX 790 any time soon for the PC - beating the crap out of any console graphics.


----------



## dream (Dec 4, 2012)

Experimental DX12 stuff?  I wish but we likely will only get DX11.1 stuff. 

Microsoft is probably the strongest contender for having the most powerful console this generation.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

Penumbra said:


> Radeon HD 8990/GeForce GTX 790 any time soon for the PC - beating the crap out of any console graphics.






Thanks for your input, it was very illuminating and full of worthy discussion


----------



## Penumbra (Dec 4, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Thanks for your input, it was very illuminating and full of worthy discussion


Brevity is one of my virtues.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

Solaris said:


> Experimental DX12 stuff?  I wish but we likely will only get DX11.1 stuff.
> 
> Microsoft is probably the strongest contender for having the most powerful console this generation.



I only pose the scenario because Microsoft if anyone is in a position to modify their API for their console to take advantage of.

Remember that AMD in conjunction with Microsoft introduced many things in 360 that were not even available for PC's at the time(such as unified shaders). Also, we all know that Xbox was originally conceived as the Direct X Box. Microsoft's intent was to put their DX API into the console space, which is how the name came about.

Its such an exciting time, anything can happen during a console transition 

As you say, Durango has a good chance of being the strongest. Probably because Microsoft can actually afford going balls to the wall without bankrupting themselves


----------



## dream (Dec 4, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I only pose the scenario because Microsoft if anyone is in a position to modify their API for their console to take advantage of.
> 
> Remember that AMD in conjunction with Microsoft introduced many things in 360 that were not even available for PC's at the time(such as unified shaders). Also, we all know that Xbox was originally conceived as the Direct X Box. Microsoft's intent was to put their DX API into the console space, which is how the name came about.
> 
> ...



It's a possible scenario alright, Microsoft could certainly use it as a test run for some features in the upcoming DX12.  That said, I wouldn't mind if we don't get anything more than the stuff in DX11.1 which is already impressive enough. 

It'll be interesting to see where Sony falls in this transition.  Will it stick close to Microsoft in terms of hardware power or will it fall behind?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

just in my opinion, it'll definitely be closer to durango than Wii U(although that goes without saying). In many ways, it seems like Nintendo kind of did their best to put in weird design decisions. They could have saved a lot of money and effort for a much better result. And they could have saved even more money then that to actually replicate the same result they ended up with if they had wanted to.


----------



## dream (Dec 4, 2012)

It's clear that it'll be closer in power to the Durango than it will be to the Wii U but that still leaves a large gap in power for the PS4 to reside in.  Towards the lower end I can definitely see it being hurt then it comes to third party games.

E3 can't come any sooner.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

Its such a far away time


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 4, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]9pNv7jFACVo[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Jake CENA (Dec 4, 2012)

Captain Cooler Master is epic win.


----------



## lathia (Dec 4, 2012)

Variant Radeon 8000's on a console? No way, if they want to remotely compete with the WiiU. I don't want a $600+ console. I have a PC for that.


----------



## Grape (Dec 4, 2012)

PS3 was up to $599 at launch :S


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

lathia said:


> Variant Radeon 8000's on a console? No way, if they want to remotely compete with the WiiU. I don't want a $600+ console. I have a PC for that.



 that's not what you'd be paying. There has not been a six hundred dollar console in recent times outside of Sony's colossal fuckup and there's a reason for that


----------



## lathia (Dec 4, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> that's not what you'd be paying. There has not been a six hundred dollar console in recent times outside of Sony's colossal fuckup and there's a reason for that



I just don't see a $300 console with anything remotely close to the specs they speculate. Not without making cuts somewhere else. Even the Wii U which has a GPU based on Radeon's HD 5000* correct me if I'm wrong can barely keep that price. Mind you, in a year the Wii U's will drop in price and make the new consoles way overpriced. 

Of course there are a lot of price variables to consider, such as the Wii U's control and depreciation of "new" technology along with time. 



Grape Krush said:


> PS3 was up to $599 at launch :S



I know and I wasn't a happy camper when I spent as much on mine. Mind you it still works like a beast.


----------



## LILBTHEBASEDGOD (Dec 4, 2012)

"Information comes from "100% concrete, ultra high level" source"


----------



## dream (Dec 4, 2012)

lathia said:


> I just don't see a $300 console with anything remotely close to the specs they speculate. Not without making cuts somewhere else. Even the Wii U which has a GPU based on Radeon's HD 5000* correct me if I'm wrong can barely keep that price. Mind you, in a year the Wii U's will drop in price and make the new consoles way overpriced.



I can't see the next Playstation or Xbox being a $300 console.  It'll be a higher amount...likely $450+.  A significant amount of the Wii U's price comes from that controller which is rather expensive, had Nintendo not gone with it that controller we could have gotten a more powerful console for the same price.  Also, its certainly possibly that Microsoft and Sony can get better deals for console hardware than Nintendo could.  In any case, Microsoft can certainly sell the console at a loss.

Sure, Nintendo will be cheap compared to the next Xbox or Playstation but that will be offset by their greater third party support and superior power.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

One thing we can appreciate is that with the Nextbox and PS4, you will be getting bang for your buck.

For me, while i will certainly buy a wii u, the thought of an unproven mechanic like "asymmetrical gameplay" making up for the cost of the console is ludicrous. Which is why i'm only getting one when the better games are closer to release 


asymmetrical gameplay is no wiimote i'll tell you that  plus at a bigger initial entry fee than Wii was, its kind of hard to justify at this point in time with all the kinks Nintendo has to work out with the OS and other things.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 4, 2012)

Did you guys read this?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

Unnecessarily gloom and doom opinion article with no actual hard figures on anything. And either way, like Sony, the state of the company whether it was doing excellent or poorly will have no impact on the console that comes out next year.

Microsoft in their coffers still has enough money to fund NASA continuously for the next 12 years. Its obvious that Windows 8 just taking off is also going to lead to struggles, it was the same with Vista. In a changing market place however, they're just going to have to learn to adapt to that shifting environment.

At the very least, they're much better at it than Sony


----------



## dream (Dec 4, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> Did you guys read this?



>Companies may give up Office because people use iPads for work. 

Time to ignore this article.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 4, 2012)

I agree it is a bad article but damn not even M$ can't escape the doomed syndrome..  Sony is Doomed tho


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

Nintendo is doomed, Sony is Doomed, Microsoft is doomed, Apple is doomed too,  Google future? 

No, but i'm pretty sure Yahoo also ran a story about how Gamestop would be dead within 2 years  lol sure thing


----------



## Darth (Dec 4, 2012)

Solaris said:


> I can't see the next Playstation or Xbox being a $300 console.  It'll be a higher amount...likely $450+.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 4, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> *Nintendo is doomed*, Sony is Doomed, Microsoft is doomed, Apple is doomed too,  Google future?
> 
> No, but i'm pretty sure Yahoo also ran a story about how Gamestop would be dead within 2 years  lol sure thing


 liar  Nintendo has being doomed since 1996. They don't count in Yahoo logic.. Google? well they are going to be doomed next year.


----------



## dream (Dec 4, 2012)

Not too absurd about that.  The 360 was $399 when it was released.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

The PS4 and 720 are going to be above Wii U's Deluxe fee, that's just a matter of fact. 

Microsoft has been experimenting with subscription price models that might work, but it'll still add up to quite a bit.

They're probably going to get faster adoption rates that way too considering that the person who holds off buying one because they can't afford it all at once is going to have the option of monthly installments


----------



## Darth (Dec 4, 2012)

I don't have 500 dollars to shell out on the newest console. 

I'll just wait a year or so until the first two pricedrops and buy it refurbished at half the starting price.


----------



## Penumbra (Dec 4, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> liar  Nintendo has being doomed since 1996. They don't count in Yahoo logic.. Google? well they are going to be doomed next year.


It's a family oriented/children system right now. I am sure do will do something about it. Next Portable System perhaps? It could be a mobile device too. 



Grape Krush said:


> PS3 was up to $599 at launch :S


Its spec was way ahead of its time, back then. At that time, your regular pc melted when it was playing HL 2. 

Right now, things has changed. Consoles are dead. It is time for Smartphones and PCs.


----------



## dream (Dec 4, 2012)

Penumbra said:


> Right now, things has changed. Consoles are dead. It is time for Smartphones and PCs.



Consoles are "dead" because it's been a rather long console cycle for the PS3 and 360.  These things always happen towards the end of a console's lifespan.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 4, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> The PS4 and 720 are going to be above Wii U's Deluxe fee, that's just a matter of fact.
> 
> Microsoft has been experimenting with subscription price models that might work, but it'll still add up to quite a bit.
> 
> They're probably going to get faster adoption rates that way too considering that the person who holds off buying one because they can't afford it all at once is going to have the option of monthly installments



With interest rates I would assume and if you used a credit card interest rates on top of interest rates


----------



## creative (Dec 4, 2012)

Oh Chris what a hassle. Can Sony atleast promise more ps1 and 2 games?
On psn? 
I just brought rival schools and klonoa a week ago.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> With interest rates I would assume and if you used a credit card interest rates on top of interest rates



Atleast gold is free for the time your paying


----------



## Penumbra (Dec 4, 2012)

Solaris said:


> Consoles are "dead" because it's been a rather long console cycle for the PS3 and 360.  These things always happen towards the end of a console's lifespan.


It's not because they are way past their expiry date(which was 2009/10). There hasn't been any successful development of niche genres for the consoles, compared to PSone and PS2. That's why they are dead.

Like the guy above(creative). I don't know why I have this eerie sense that if publishers went back and published old games of the old consoles, everything will flourish back to what it was(take LSD: Dream Emulator as a case study). Fuck PSN. No one has the time or the bandwidth. 

But the smarty pants over at Sony made a good move on the new generation of PS3 and removed the backward compatibility for PS2 games. Good job, there. You fucked your market. Bye bye new Sony licenses and DVD games.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 4, 2012)

creative said:


> Oh Chris what a hassle. Can Sony atleast promise more ps1 and 2 games?
> On psn?
> I just brought rival schools and klonoa a week ago.



Sony will never come close to 1/1000th of the library of games they have from ps1 and ps2.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

Adoption rates for PSN are up, adoption rates for XBL are up, consoles are still selling 250,000 a month in the US alone and probably will sell more these last two months of the year than the rest of the year combined.

The demand for console hardware is there, they want re-invigoration of the marketplace, and next gen is going to deliver that


----------



## creative (Dec 4, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:
			
		

> Adoption rates for PSN are up, adoption rates for XBL are up, consoles are still selling 250,000 a month in the US alone and probably will sell more these last two months of the year than the rest of the year combined.
> *
> The demand for console hardware is there, they want re-invigoration of the marketplace, and next gen is going to deliver that*



They don't have much of a choice. If there aren't going to be any excellent launch titles, the least these companies can do is promise we can still play the same shit we were playing a two or so gens ago.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

Learn english plz


----------



## creative (Dec 4, 2012)

stop it, Inuhanyou.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

creative said:


> They don't have much of a choice. If there aren't going to be any excellent launch titles, the least these companies can do is promise we can still play the same shit we were playing a two or so gens ago.



As far as we know...every single major game developer is making a game for next gen as we are posting right this second  you think there aren't going to be any excellent launch titles?


----------



## creative (Dec 4, 2012)

I'm abit pessimistic. the only thing I wanted when the PS3 first came onto the scene was MSG 4 where as with the wii I pretty much wanted all of their launch titles. I know I shouldn't be greedy, because with time, more excellent things are sure to come. but I just hate that I can't play some of my oldies on new gens without having the go through the cluster fuck of hacking, searching for special models that allow backward compatibility or otherwise. 

I guess that will teach me to sell all my previous consoles just to get the latest ones though...


----------



## dream (Dec 4, 2012)

Penumbra said:


> It's not because they are way past their expiry date(which was 2009/10). There hasn't been any successful development of niche genres for the consoles, compared to PSone and PS2. That's why they are dead.



It would be better to say that console gaming was stagnant or stale because of a lack of niche genre development.  Gaming had thrived and still does thrive when it comes to people purchasing games.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 4, 2012)

Solaris said:


> I can't see the next Playstation or Xbox being a $300 console.  It'll be a higher amount...likely $450+.  A significant amount of the Wii U's price comes from that controller which is rather expensive, had Nintendo not gone with it that controller we could have gotten a more powerful console for the same price.  Also, its certainly possibly that Microsoft and Sony can get better deals for console hardware than Nintendo could.  In any case, Microsoft can certainly sell the console at a loss.
> 
> Sure, Nintendo will be cheap compared to the next Xbox or Playstation but that will be offset by their greater third party support and superior power.



That would actually be a bit of a disturbing price point if it ever came to fruition tbh. Maybe if we were talking like 350-$400 (or possibly around $400) then i could bite but still. Thats almost debatable but your probably right given with MS/Sony's past deals good or bad. True on MS since even with the RROD $$$ loss incident the 360 has been in a nice position in NA/EU from time to time. 

Techically from a sales prospective that didn't offset the Wii from selling like hotcakes until it died off in 2011-current. Plus even if third parties left the Wii U it's not like it won't have good games either since the Wii had nice titles received on it's catalogue as well despite being overlooked by shovelware and treated like garbage from third parties. Though i can still take your word for third party support and superior tech.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

I wonder if Nintendo will ever pay to have their own FPS series 

Sony has one in Killzone, Microsoft has one in Halo. Nintendo also needs an FPS series


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 4, 2012)

None.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 4, 2012)

I am not paying more than $350 for a PS4 or 720.. fuck that, seriously.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

People pay more for that then entry level gaming PC rigs  

But that's not a real answer is it? 

For reference, the normal 360 was launched at 399$, with a basic 299$ version 

I'm thinking the highest it'll go is 449$


----------



## dream (Dec 4, 2012)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Techically from a sales prospective that didn't offset the Wii from selling like hotcakes until it died off in 2011-current. Plus even if third parties left the Wii U it's not like it won't have good games either since the Wii had nice titles received on it's catalogue as well despite being overlooked by shovelware and treated like garbage from third parties



The Wii sold so well because casuals flocked to the system.  Those same casuals are probably a fickle bunch and thus may not support the Wii U as well as they did the Wii.  We'll see where things fall in a few years.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 4, 2012)

I don't really care about PC power ranges, blah, blah, blah. I really want to see what are they going to do tho.  I am not one of those guys who going to pay more than fucking $350 dollars for just the console. It is not happening.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

^ Well...no one is saying you have to. Don't, in fact. But i'm saying that those prices are not out of the ordinary for console launches.




Solaris said:


> The Wii sold so well because casuals flocked to the system.  Those same casuals are probably a fickle bunch and thus may not support the Wii U as well as they did the Wii.  We'll see where things fall in a few years.



To add on to this great point, the Wii sold out the asshole, but the attach rate per console for the generation was 1.5 games. Historically low and probably the worst in modern console recorded history. People were buying these Wii's for one or two games(probably for Wii Fit) and then tossing them.

So there's a double edge to the "Wii sales are greatest!"


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 4, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> ^ Well...no one is saying you have to. Don't, in fact. But i'm saying that those prices are not out of the ordinary for console launches.


 If they go over with no any real reason why such prices. I am going to skip those two launch like I did before.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

I never buy launch consoles, they are always riddled with problems  I didn't get a PS3 until 2010 after the slim came out, never owned one of those phat ones.


----------



## Jake CENA (Dec 4, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> I am not paying more than $350 for a PS4 or 720.. fuck that, seriously.



What if its $369?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 4, 2012)

TerminaTHOR said:


> What if its $369?



over $350 is a no no


----------



## dream (Dec 4, 2012)

Would $350.99 be too much for you?


----------



## creative (Dec 4, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> I wonder if Nintendo will ever pay to have their own FPS series
> 
> Sony has one in Killzone, Microsoft has one in Halo. Nintendo also needs an FPS series



For a time the metroid prime games did just that. I recall the conduit being absolute shit.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 4, 2012)

Solaris said:


> The Wii sold so well because casuals flocked to the system.  Those same casuals are probably a fickle bunch and thus may not support the Wii U as well as they did the Wii.  We'll see where things fall in a few years.



I'm not denying that, and with the marketing shifting nowadays it's very likely that we won't see Wii-like flocking for the Wii U.

@Hanyou. That too. 

Hey don't forget about Nintendo's first party IP.


----------



## "Shion" (Dec 4, 2012)

I thought this was a ps4/Xbox thread.

What the fuck is WiiU's bitch ass doing here?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 4, 2012)

"Shion" said:


> I thought this was a ps4/Xbox thread.
> 
> What the fuck is WiiU's bitch ass doing here?



Running away from you.


----------



## "Shion" (Dec 4, 2012)

Bitch better be afraid.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 4, 2012)

Pfft plz.


----------



## "Shion" (Dec 4, 2012)

Spell correctly or go back to elementary school.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 4, 2012)

"Shion" said:


> *Spell correctly* or go back to elementary school.





"Shion" said:


> Whaddafuck is that?



Next time keep your Pidar Zhopa to yourself before looking like a ginormous hypocrite in the end.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

Why can't E3 be tomorrow? Real question btw


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 4, 2012)

Because the last one sucked.


----------



## "Shion" (Dec 4, 2012)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Next time keep your Pidar Zhopa to yourself before looking like a ginormous hypocrite in the end.



There you go.

_Now_ I can understand yor dumb ass.

Was that so hard?


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 4, 2012)

"Shion" said:


> There you go.
> 
> _Now_ I can understand *yor* dumb ass.
> 
> Was that so hard?



>Calls me a dumbass
>Misspells "your", an extremely simple word in the English vocabulary 

Keep it coming, bro.


----------



## "Shion" (Dec 4, 2012)

If I kept it coming, I'd be typing like your idiot ass.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 4, 2012)

Like what your doing right now?  

And that's disregarding who the real idiot is here.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 4, 2012)

Why are you descending into insults Shion  That doesn't reflect well on the individual


----------



## "Shion" (Dec 4, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> Why are you descending into insults Shion  That doesn't reflect well on the individual



That's the only way I can poke at Senju's nerves.

But shh... He's not supposed to know that.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Dec 4, 2012)

And so far it's been sucking harder than an average blowjob.


----------



## "Shion" (Dec 4, 2012)

You've never had a blowjob, kid.

You wouldn't know.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 13, 2012)

Just played though mirror's edge.
I'd score it a 5.8
This game needs way more polishing than it had to make the game mechanics work properly.  When I hit the trigger to grab a ledge you damn well should grab on the ledge
Game often ignores what you want to do screwing you over.
Game is too short, I would be giving it a lower score if I didn't rent it and beat it in 4 hours.
Story isn't that important in this game.
Combat mechanics are practically useless.
For a game that's supposed to be about speed running it's too clunky.


----------



## Gnome (Dec 13, 2012)

My friend swears its one of the greatest games ever. I swear that he's a fucking idiot sometimes.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 13, 2012)

Gnome said:


> My friend swears its one of the greatest games ever. I swear that he's a fucking idiot sometimes.



It could have been a pretty good game, but it needed a lot of work done to it.
I'd only recommend it for the fact it's different.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2012)

wtf does mirror's edge have to do with this thread


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 13, 2012)

*Kotaku posts new rumors about Xbox 720/PlayStation 4 (Power, Release Timing)*




> We talk to people. It's part of our job. And lately we're not hearing any big bombshells about the next generation of game consoles, but we're hearing the same buzz we've been hearing all year: the next generation of Xbox and PlayStation are right around the corner.



Originally Posted by Kotaku:



> If you talk to people about the next-gen games at, oh, I don't know, a major gaming trade show or a major gaming awards show, the persistent impression given is that these new systems will be powerful. The old comparison I heard?and saw backed up by a solid report on IGN?was that the new Xbox would be eight times more powerful than the 360. That's old reporting, from earlier in the year. *We've also heard that Durango is roughly as graphically capable as the second-most powerful PC on the market today, which, yes, is quite the indirect statement. The chatter we hear is that Durango and Orbis are close in power to each other or at least both in the same league past the current gen. Much may have changed since then and, as any Wii U owner can tell you, it's damn hard to assess how powerful a system is even when playing the first batch of games a developer made for it. (Or don't ask a Wii U user... ask an Xbox 360 user to compare 2005 360 launch games Kameo: Elements of Power or Perfect Dark Zero to 2012's Halo 4).
> 
> The vibe I get when I hear about Durango is that Microsoft is on the mark. Sony appears to inspire less confidence, though I've had a hard time nailing down why and discerning how much lost confidence is due to the on-and-off troubles of the PlayStation 3 and the struggles of the Vita vs. how much lost confidence is due to any problems looming for PS4. What I do know is that confidence is high that the next Xbox will be out in time for next Christmas. Confidence is less high that Sony will pull off the same feat, though they want to*.





I am worried about you Sony..


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2012)

We knew that Sony was on very shakey ground. Their recent failures have been reminding me of 2006, i don't like that.


----------



## dream (Dec 13, 2012)

Neither do I, we need Sony to do well for the market to remain competitive.  Hopefully this confidence loss in Sony isn't really about the PS4.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2012)

:/  Hopefully it gets sorted out before launch. Luckily there's a bit of time between here and there


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 13, 2012)

Question, a little bit off topic but Does Sony need to kill Vita? get out of there and focus all their studios on the PS4?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2012)

Well..i will say that the market has changed in the handheld sector. I don't think that Sony is doing themselves any kind of favors segmenting their mindshare as well as their markethshare with smaller rewards for doing so.

Historically, Nintendo has been the only handheld brand to stand the test of time, and here we see Sony struggling on their second generation. Its a cause for concern


----------



## dream (Dec 13, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> :/  Hopefully it gets sorted out before launch. Luckily there's a bit of time between here and there



If the PS4 appears at E3 then a strong E3 showing would do wonders for Sony in this regard.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2012)

Maybe. Hopefully Sony will have exclusive games to show though. It seems like Microsoft has third parties in their pocket already and will bring those games out of the gate.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 13, 2012)

I have a feeling that next year it is going to be all about 720. I just don't see the PS4 on the radar.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2012)

Well its gonna have to be if its releasing next year :/ If its not....psh...who knows if Sony can weather another late release


----------



## Gnome (Dec 13, 2012)

If Sony shows a console at E3 I will be surprised. And they likely wouldn't release it next year. Microsoft on the other hand, I don't think they would have a problem releasing a new console the same year as its announced.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Dec 13, 2012)

Since considerable technical superiority is out of the question in any gen after this one, Sony should just focus on being first and having more exclusive titles in this day of multiplatformers. Simple really.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2012)

Sony is indeed going through some....difficult times.


----------



## Gnome (Dec 13, 2012)

That should be the focus of both Sony and MS. Exclusives that actually interest me have been waning lately. At least I feel like I can always trust Naughty Dog to have something that amazes me.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 13, 2012)

M$ need more studios tho.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Dec 13, 2012)

Real shame that Sony let MGS slip through their fingers. MGS4 was pretty much a console buyer the entire first half of the PS3 run.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2012)

That's the story of Sony this gen though, failure after failure and Microsoft's capitalizing on that.

As for MS themselves...

MS have been gearing up with more first party hiring, black tusk in particular, is working on a new AAA series, and they were hiring for a super AAAA game as well last i heard, also, they have been hiring for Rare and staffing them for duties on next gen game development as well...


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 13, 2012)

Hatifnatten said:


> Real shame that Sony let MGS slip through their fingers. MGS4 was pretty much a console buyer the entire first half of the PS3 run.



and Monster Hunter.. that was a huge blow to Sony..


----------



## dream (Dec 13, 2012)

Gnome said:


> If Sony shows a console at E3 I will be surprised. And they likely wouldn't release it next year. Microsoft on the other hand, I don't think they would have a problem releasing a new console the same year as its announced.



Don't see a 2013 launch for the PS4 but a 2014 launch is almost certain so there is a good chance that we might see the PS4 at E3 especially since Sony apparently wants to have a late 2013 launch.  I can certainly see Sony wanting to take away a bit of attention from Durango so we might get to see some tech demos.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2012)

But MS will also have tech demo's, most likely from those same publishers 

They both did at E3 2005 as far as i know...and SE is confirmed to be showing on actual next gen hardware at E3, so its only a matter of which console its going to be on


----------



## dream (Dec 13, 2012)

Yes but this way people will be talking quite a bit about the PS4 as well instead of just talking about Durango.  Doesn't make a big difference but if it was me I probably wouldn't let Microsoft have most of attention when it comes to next generation consoles for long.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2012)

I agree...but there's only so much they can do if they aren't exactly ready for the next gen. They don't want to fuck it up with their current troubles


----------



## Hatifnatten (Dec 13, 2012)

We should really get rid of those obsolete live shows. They are the media of the past, pre-internet media. We don't need them. Developers and studios literally limit themselves to just 1 hour, in which they have to pin-point everything they have to address in our bloated with gadgets and technology world, on this terrible americanized mainstream entertainment schlock. It should be just an online presentation from each publisher and developer, compiled on some official E3 site. Where they can present everything for as long as they see fit, separated in categories and such. You know, no terrible hosts, no terrible performances, just information with a direct feed. It literally feels retarded that I have to watch some game's premier gameplay on a shaky cellphone video taken by some guy, in 2013.


----------



## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Dec 13, 2012)

Its not 2013.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Dec 13, 2012)

No fucking shit. Then I guess your next E3 is happening next week, huh.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 13, 2012)

Hatifnatten said:


> We should really get rid of those obsolete live shows. They are the media of the past, pre-internet media. We don't need them. Developers and studios literally limit themselves to just 1 hour, in which they have to pin-point everything they have to address in our bloated with gadgets and technology world, on this terrible americanized mainstream entertainment schlock. It should be just an online presentation from each publisher and developer, compiled on some official E3 site. Where they can present everything for as long as they see fit, separated in categories and such. You know, no terrible hosts, no terrible performances, just information with a direct feed. It literally feels retarded that I have to watch some game's premier gameplay on a shaky cellphone video taken by some guy, in 2013.



So like Nintendo is doing with Nintendo Direct?


----------



## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Dec 13, 2012)

Hatifnatten said:


> No fucking shit. Then I guess your next E3 is happening next week, huh.



Havent you heard? They're skipping e3 next year muwhahahahahahahhaha!]

Bet you were mighty pissed when you found out the article wasn't legit


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 13, 2012)

Inuhanyou said:


> wtf does mirror's edge have to do with this thread



What doesn't it? I mean it's not like it's on the ps3 and 360 or anything
Besides it's a necro.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Dec 13, 2012)

Malvingt2 said:


> So like Nintendo is doing with Nintendo Direct?


In the lines of that idea. Though they still aren't ignoring E3. They do ignore TGS however.


----------



## Jake CENA (Dec 13, 2012)

LOOOL all M$ could deliver are overused FPS games what's there to expect from them?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2012)

I would not count out Microsoft in the least considering they have the momentum going forward. As well as being in the best position out of the big 3 in terms of current marketshare, chances of growing that marketshare in the future, and cementing of the brand


----------



## dream (Jan 8, 2013)

> User "BD" was a former UBI (now other 3rd party) employee and says that he will leak infos about the 720's dedicated OS Ram, if MS will not spill the beans itself on E3.
> Other users confirm his affiliation to the industry. This was done in course of a thread about the CVG 720 article we all know.
> 
> 
> ...







> Is 8880.


----------



## Ubereem (Jan 8, 2013)

PS3 has plenty of life left.


----------



## dream (Jan 8, 2013)

Ubereem said:


> PS3 has plenty of life left.



Eh, 2013 will probably be the last year where it will have good releases.  2014  and beyond will be shovel-ware for the most part.  Perhaps one or two quality releases.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 9, 2013)

I've been on B3D for a bit, and a known insider has confirmed to us that the specs of Durango are already out there, he said its up to us to decipher the rumors from the fakes...


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 13, 2013)

*Sony : Vice President for Japan hints at possible PS4 announcement in May/June*



Come on Sony, it's make it or break it this time. Don't make the same mistakes you made with the Vita and you'll be all right.


----------



## DedValve (Jan 13, 2013)

*THIS E3 FOR SURE. *


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 13, 2013)

Will rock my socks off and suck.


----------



## Foxy (Jan 13, 2013)

I'm happy with my PS3. And I'm happy with the games that are still being released for it. What's the point of making a new console so soon? It won't really make games better. Even if some are, the prices will be outrageous... I still can't afford some of the great games that I've been wanting for months now.


----------



## God Movement (Jan 13, 2013)

Need a PS4, bored of my PS3. Need a Xbox 720, bored of my Xbox 360. Don't need a Wii U, bored of my Wii.


----------



## dream (Jan 13, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> *Sony : Vice President for Japan hints at possible PS4 announcement in May/June*
> 
> 
> 
> Come on Sony, it's make it or break it this time. Don't make the same mistakes you made with the Vita and you'll be all right.



PS4 and Xbox 720 at this E3...it's going to be one hell of an E3.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 13, 2013)

I do wonder how Nintendo, Sony, and MS will organize their software-side reveals to raise the roof off the hype surrounds. Especially Sony/MS.


----------



## PoinT_BlanK (Jan 14, 2013)

Solaris said:


> PS4 and Xbox 720 at this E3...it's going to be one hell of an E3.



People say that almost every year..then e3 comes and disappoints.


----------



## Canute87 (Jan 14, 2013)

I wonder what awesome things companies are going to deliver for the new powerful and expensive systems.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 14, 2013)

I am not that hyped for this year E3, The big 3 let me down last year. "specially Nintendo" Ubisoft was the clear winner. This year I am going to watch it with low expectation. Not expecting nothing big. I have a feeling that the 720 is going to be present..


----------



## dream (Jan 14, 2013)

PoinT_BlanK said:


> People say that almost every year..then e3 comes and disappoints.



This time it'll be different...probably.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jan 14, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> *Sony : Vice President for Japan hints at possible PS4 announcement in May/June*
> 
> 
> 
> Come on Sony, it's make it or break it this time. Don't make the same mistakes you made with the Vita and you'll be all right.



It Begins.


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 14, 2013)

and another rumor according to gameinformer says both consoles will be revealed at the GDC in March.



whatever, just get it over with already


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

they will bothbe announced b4 next year...


----------



## dream (Jan 14, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> they will bothbe announced b4 next year...



That much is clear, the sooner the better in my eyes.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Jan 14, 2013)

I don't know why people are expecting new gen with their arms outspread.

You do realize that the next gen gonna be even worse than the current gen, right? All the mistakes and terrible ideas that ruined this gen by it's end gonna be just a granted in the next one.
There gonna be even less good games because their production now costs about as much as a good movie and nobody would want to get creative and risk. And the quality of the games gonna drop palpably, because developers would cut edges in the development time via DLC and patches. This is all a tangible reality already now and things won't get any better.
I'm not even talking about all the gimmicks that will be a granted part of any game now. Like 3D or motion control.

But oh well, ignorance is a bliss.


----------



## Id (Jan 14, 2013)

Fuck the new Gens. I am saving my money for Nvidia Maxwell premier card. And when that shit starts to age, I'll just buy another. 

Fuck yeah!


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 14, 2013)

Hatifnatten said:


> I don't know why people are expecting new gen with their arms outspread.
> 
> You do realize that the next gen gonna be even worse than the current gen, right? All the mistakes and terrible ideas that ruined this gen by it's end gonna be just a granted in the next one.
> There gonna be even less good games because their production now costs about as much as a good movie and nobody would want to get creative and risk. And the quality of the games gonna drop palpably, because developers would cut edges in the development time via DLC and patches. This is all a tangible reality already now and things won't get any better.
> ...



Which means more third parties will go handheld (3DS exclusive morso) instead? Awesome! 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Your joking right?


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 14, 2013)

This is why Big Picture/Steam Box is going to be the superior option going forward.

Steam's library of 2,000+ games will carry forward and it'll be very easy to develop additional content since it uses standard PC architecture. In fact it'll be superior because the Linux Kernel is superior to the Windows Kernel in almost every way.


----------



## Sotei (Jan 14, 2013)

Hatifnatten said:


> I don't know why people are expecting new gen with their arms outspread.
> 
> You do realize that the next gen gonna be even worse than the current gen, right? All the mistakes and terrible ideas that ruined this gen by it's end gonna be just a granted in the next one.
> There gonna be even less good games because their production now costs about as much as a good movie and nobody would want to get creative and risk. And the quality of the games gonna drop palpably, because developers would cut edges in the development time via DLC and patches. This is all a tangible reality already now and things won't get any better.
> ...




Whelp, guess I might as well quit gaming then... darn.


Good thing there are PCs out there already and the Wii U should be a haven for risk taking, since you know, it's not going to be as expensive to develop games for it compared to the PS4 and NextBox.


I see MS trying to fuck everyone over though, they'll be looking at ways to suck as much money from consumers as possible.


----------



## dream (Jan 14, 2013)

strongarm85 said:


> This is why Big Picture/Steam Box is going to be the superior option going forward.
> 
> Steam's library of 2,000+ games will carry forward and it'll be very easy to develop additional content since it uses standard PC architecture. In fact it'll be superior because the Linux Kernel is superior to the Windows Kernel in almost every way.



We'll see what the future holds for Steam Box but I'm being really cautious about it.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

This is not a PC wanking thread. If i wanted that, i'd go to the PC gaming section. 

People care too much about what platforms other people choose to spend their time playing games on. This is thread about next gen PS4 and 720.

Anyways, about 720 and PS4 specifically, can't wait for E3. There's gonna be a shitload of games coming down the pipe.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 14, 2013)

Which one are you going to get? 720 or PS4? (Idc if we know little about them, i'm just asking potentially).


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

I'm getting both of them just like i have a PS3 and 360. I got a majority of exclusives and some specific third parties(like fighters and the like) on PS3, and i usually get third parties on 360 along with its small niche of hardcore exclusives. I already have Wii U, but i made the decision to buy a Wii U after skipping out on getting a Wii. Thank god for perfect Wii BC.


----------



## Suigetsu (Jan 14, 2013)

What's this Steam Box u guys talking about? A fusion of the xbox and steam?


----------



## Reyes (Jan 14, 2013)

Interested in to see if any of the rumors floating around about both consoles are true.

Sukerpunch new game better be for the PS4


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

Suigetsu said:


> What's this Steam Box u guys talking about? A fusion of the xbox and steam?




Its a box that runs steam. Literally.

Think of an X51 in all shapes and sizes, but you can only run steam on it, and it has no disk drive. That's steambox.

The aim of this box is to get console players interested in steam.


----------



## Reyes (Jan 14, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Its a box that runs steam. Literally.
> 
> Think of an X51 in all shapes and sizes, but you can only run steam on it, and it has no disk drive. That's steambox.
> 
> The aim of this box is to get console players interested in steam.



Any details about the release?


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 14, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I'm getting both of them just like i have a PS3 and 360. I got a majority of exclusives and some specific third parties(like fighters and the like) on PS3, a*nd i usually get third parties on 360 along with its small niche of hardcore exclusives*. I already have Wii U, but i made the decision to buy a Wii U after skipping out on getting a Wii. Thank god for perfect Wii BC.



Interesting, is that because most of the actual good third party games on the 360 preform better on that than the PS3's counterpart versions? Not that i'd be right on that part, but it would seem like your kind of style since i'd go for the definitive versions of multiplats as well. And yeah, thank goodness for Wii BC. 

I'll probably stick to the PS4 unless Sony screws it up again ala/PS3/Vita marketing and etc. Awesome exclusives and whatnot, otherwise it'll be a Wii U/PS4 combo fo' sho.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

Annoying Meowth Sensei said:


> Interested in to see if any of the rumors floating around about both consoles are true.
> 
> Sukerpunch new game better be for the PS4



There are plenty of them...but a lot of them are consistent and insiders have hinted at plenty of things, so we've managed to narrow down a few things.

Like 8 gigs of ram for 720, 4 gigs for PS4

720 is heavy in the customizations aspect, PS4 is more like a somewhat simple APU and GPU combo, things like that.


----------



## Reyes (Jan 14, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Interesting, is that because most of the actual good third party games on the 360 preform better on that than the PS3's counterpart versions? Not that i'd be right on that part, but it would seem like your kind of style since i'd go for the definitive versions of multiplats as well. And yeah, thank goodness for Wii BC.
> 
> I'll probably stick to the PS4 unless *Sony screws it up again ala/PS3/Vita marketing* and etc. Awesome exclusives and whatnot, otherwise it'll be a Wii U/PS4 combo fo' sho.



Sony marketing has allways been bad....but hey there games are awesome


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Interesting, is that because most of the actual good third party games on the 360 preform better on that than the PS3's counterpart versions? Not that i'd be right on that part, but it would seem like your kind of style since i'd go for the definitive versions of multiplats as well. And yeah, thank goodness for Wii BC.



Its a combination of things really. A lot of the early 360 games were exclusive like Bioshock Mass effect ect. I got into those series early on in the 360's life, so i've kind of just extended that throughout the gen on 360, and before i knew it 360 was my platform of choice for a majority of third party games. Of course the fact that 99% of these games perform better on 360 doesn't hurt, but it wasn't really apart of my initial equation.


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 14, 2013)

Suigetsu said:


> What's this Steam Box u guys talking about? A fusion of the xbox and steam?



Steam has decided to jump into the living room war in their own way. They've developed a mode called "Big Picture" which allows you to stream Games from your PC to your TV. For people who already own a PC they can buy a $100 Nvidia box that'll allow you to stream video data from your PC (located in whatever room that is) across your house's local internet to your TV. You'll be able to use PC compatible controllers (including the X-box Controller), or you can optionally use mouse and a keyboard, or any other PC compatible device to play games on Big Picture.

The "Steam Box" is basically a game console. The Steam Box is basically a PC that's designed to be connected to a TV directly. You'll be able to play EVERY game that's available on Steam on the Steam Box at launch, a library of over 2,000 games and growing.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

Jesus christ bro i already gave the damn definition


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## Reyes (Jan 14, 2013)

Wonder what the 3rd pairties have for next gen?


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

Annoying Meowth Sensei said:


> Wonder what the 3rd pairties have for next gen?





In short, there's definitely going to be a blowout at E3 like you'd never believe.

Hopefully Nintendo brings the games it has in development too, its going to need the momentum.


----------



## Reyes (Jan 14, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> In short, there's definitely going to be a blowout at E3 like you'd never believe.
> 
> Hopefully Nintendo brings the games it has in development too, its going to need the momentum.



There better be a 3D mario game


----------



## MCTDread (Jan 14, 2013)

When they announce them do you think they'll release these new consoles this year or next year?


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## Akira Kurusu (Jan 14, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Its a combination of things really. A lot of the early 360 games were exclusive like Bioshock Mass effect ect. I got into those series early on in the 360's life, so i've kind of just extended that throughout the gen on 360, and before i knew it 360 was my platform of choice for a majority of third party games. Of course the fact that 99% of these games perform better on 360 doesn't hurt, but it wasn't really apart of my initial equation.



I see, well that's nice in the end at least.  

Btw that link you just gave, are those pics of games coming out for next gen a representation of how the graphics will look like for next gen or are those jus bullshots made from PC?


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

Definitely this year. For atleast one. They want the heads up on each other so i really doubt either will launch later than December.

Also they will be announced before E3. I'm talking months in advance here, like within the next 3 months.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> I see, well that's nice in the end at least.
> 
> Btw that link you just gave, are those pics of games coming out for next gen a representation of how the graphics will look like for next gen or are those jus bullshots made from PC?



What exactly are you asking though? They are not tech demo's. A majority of those games are games that are already confirmed to be under heavy development, they are not killzone 2 esque trailers in the least where the game hasn't even been started yet and they are just trying to get their hands around how the tech works so they slap dash a bullshit CGI trailer out there without saying if it was real time or not.

Now i can probably confirm for you that these games were run off of PC set ups(whether some games were run on next gen dev kits(aka specs equal to what Microsoft/Sony have in mind) or not is unknown), and we won't know for sure how games actually look on the next gen consoles until they are announced to actually exist. We'll definitely know by E3, if not long before. 

But i can also confirm, that a majority of these games in development are what devs are looking to achieve on the next hardware iterations from Microsoft and Sony.

For example, we have a Naughty Dog job listing asking for programmers who can render character models over 1 million polys. That's equatable with Agni's philosophy character models.(Uncharted 3's character models on average had 80,000 polys).


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## dream (Jan 14, 2013)

MCTDread said:


> When they announce them do you think they'll release these new consoles this year or next year?



The next Xbox might get a late 2013 release while the PS4 will likely get a 2014 release.


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## Akira Kurusu (Jan 14, 2013)

Nice, so things seem to be going pretty smooth with devs on the other next gen consoles. And nice tibit on the Naughty Dog polygon rendering, those guys make stunning looking assets with their game it's criminal.  (Not to sound like a graphic whore or anything).

Another thing, how big do you think the generation leap with be on this gen? We all know it will be much better than current gen, but how much? Better than the SD to HD leap?? You name it.


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## Narutossss (Jan 14, 2013)

meh don't really give fucks about ps4 or 720, current hardware can be still milked for a couple of more years.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Nice, so things seem to be going pretty smooth with devs on the other next gen consoles. And nice tibit on the Naughty Dog polygon rendering, those guys make stunning looking assets with their game it's criminal.  (Not to sound like a graphic whore or anything).
> 
> Another thing, how big do you think the generation leap with be on this gen? We all know it will be much better than current gen, but how much? Better than the SD to HD leap?? You name it.



Its hard to say. This generation will start off being more about iteration than renovation in my opinion. Its not like the start of last generation where devs have to get in tune with a lot of kinds of graphical rendering that they don't know about(like shaders for example which were pretty rare outside of PC's at the time and were really unrefined even then). They will simply be doing what they have been doing this gen but on a much bigger and more refined scale.

In comparison to that, i think Nintendo exclusive devs will have a much harder time, because they are just now entering this environment.


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## Akira Kurusu (Jan 14, 2013)

You mean Nintendo's 1st party studios? Well they have been prepared to take on HD dev cost for a while now since they started R&D on the Wii U beforehand. Though i can imagine the transition taking up a bit of their time along with hiring more staff to handle it (like Retro Studios for example), i wonder if part of the reason Ninty didn't go all out with the Wii U's tech was due to how much they could possibly not sustain themselves consistently towards dev costs with HD systems taking another generation leap from current gen tech.  

(Nah maybe it's for other reasons besides their philosophy, right?).


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

No, i'd say you had a point. It may have been one of their reasons. These days they are a very cost conscious company. If its out of their budget they will plan accordingly.

But i think it might have been less on the development side of things and more on the upfront cost of the console hardware.


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## The World (Jan 14, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> meh don't really give fucks about ps4 or 720, current hardware can be still milked for a couple of more years.



It's near the 10 year life cycle, with PS3 going on 7, and 360 going on 8 years now. 

It's time to move on buddy. Besides probably won't even be released till 2014 anyway.


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## Akira Kurusu (Jan 14, 2013)

@Inu:

That's true, it peaked my mind minutes ago when someone on GAF made a hypothesis on Nintendo's reasons for not going all out next gen were due to how Nintendo's company size could be smaller compared to MS/Sony's considering Nintendo are budget/software focused by a great margin who operate on efficiency since the GC days (which is one of my favorite parts about Nintendo's engineers i might add, less failure rate on their hardware =  imo (Though if we were talking about gimping hardware then that's another story...). 

I sorta bet the reason they were able to get away with making generational leaps on their hardware from around the N64/GC eras were due to how SD dev costs were not as big as HD ones, which were admittedly huge in comparison. Though at least with the 3DS hardware making Wii-level graphics they won't have much trouble on that.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

The 3DS is a rousing success story, hopefully they can do that with the Wii U


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## Reyes (Jan 14, 2013)

Persona 5....PS4


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## Akira Kurusu (Jan 14, 2013)

I still believe Nintendo could turn the console around sooner or later, it still has potential to be a success imo as long as Nintendo start gearing with it more before E3 so that people can stop "doooooooming" over it like it's the start of the PS3 era all over again. In which many probably thought Sony would pack it in with the console despite the major third party support it got (like FFXIII even though we all know how _that_ went after release quality-wise). The 720/PS4 should probably due well too if done right this time too.



Annoying Meowth Sensei said:


> Persona 5....PS4 Kinect



Perfect. :ho


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## Reyes (Jan 14, 2013)

What they need to do is show something for Smash Brosthers.


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## Reyes (Jan 14, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> I still believe Nintendo could turn the console around sooner or later, it still has potential to be a success imo as long as Nintendo start gearing with it more before E3 so that people can stop "doooooooming" over it like it's the start of the PS3 era all over again. In which many probably thought Sony would pack it in with the console despite the major third party support it got (like FFXIII even though we all know how _that_ went after release quality-wise). The 720/PS4 should probably due well too if done right this time too.
> 
> 
> 
> *Perfect. :ho*



Do you want a shitty game, or better yet PS3 and Vita


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

What they should show is Bayonetta 2. Smash bros??? Why waste it for the first year, they gotta sit on it as a trump card


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## Reyes (Jan 14, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> What they should show is Bayonetta 2. Smash bros??? Why waste it for the first year, they gotta sit on it as a trump card



I saying just a teaser, even if CGI give us some old and new people fighting and the nintendo fans will explode.

Bayonetta 2 won't sell systems a lot of systems but it will win some fans over that felt burn on the wii.

Star Fox


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

You say Bayonetta 2 wont sell systems? not even for the people who are desperate for bayo 2 on the other consoles? I dunno about that


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## Reyes (Jan 14, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> You say Bayonetta 2 wont sell systems? not even for the people who are desperate for bayo 2 on the other consoles? I dunno about that



Alot of fans are pissed at it being on WIIU for whatever reason. There will be the hardcore fans that will buy it but how big is the hardcore fanbase of Bayonetta willing to buy a whole sytem for it?

What do you expect from Microsoft


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

Forza 5 will be at E3. and this year's COD, and a lot of other games. I expect them to be pimped on 720


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## Reyes (Jan 14, 2013)

Kinect 2 or Kinect+

Cyberconnect working on new games, PS4 One Piece game


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## Sotei (Jan 14, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Which one are you going to get? 720 or PS4? (Idc if we know little about them, i'm just asking potentially).




This gen I ended up buying the 360 before the PS3, this time around I think I'll snatch up the PS4 first and wait on the Nextbox to drop in price.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 14, 2013)

Annoying Meowth Sensei said:


> Kinect 2 or Kinect+
> 
> Cyberconnect working on new games, PS4 One Piece game



Yes, Cyberconnect is working on 3 new games if i remember right.

Or is that namco bandai


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## Suigetsu (Jan 15, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Yes, Cyberconnect is working on 3 new games if i remember right.
> 
> Or is that namco bandai



Cyberconnect only makes Naruto games.


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## Reyes (Jan 15, 2013)

Suigetsu said:


> Cyberconnect only makes Naruto games.



They made the Hack games on PS2 and made Asura wrath just last year.

They have to make a OP game


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

Suigetsu said:


> Cyberconnect only makes Naruto games.



They can make any game they want actually, they just normally do Naruto games so far


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## Death-kun (Jan 15, 2013)

I'll stick with WiiU/PS4/PC for next gen. I don't need an Xbox. I've never really seen the appeal of it.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

The appeal is only known to people who buy the product. That's like saying "i don't know the appeal of anything i don't own because i don't feel the need to own said product".

as for me, the appeal is that i like the controller and Microsoft's exclusive games this gen. If they come out hard next gen with the same kind of zeal that was seen at the start of 360's lifetime, it'll be the same situation for me.


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## Omega Reaper (Jan 15, 2013)

I'd like to see a new Tales game on Wii U.  Tales of Symphonia 2 was pretty meh.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

Symphonia 2 was garbage. I hope Namco bandai supports the Wii U though, it would be a shame to see third parties back out


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## SAFFF (Jan 15, 2013)

Not looking forward to the launch. Playstation has had crappy launches or first years except for with PS1 since it had Crash Bandicoot the first year.


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## Omega Reaper (Jan 15, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Symphonia 2 was garbage. I hope Namco bandai supports the Wii U though, it would be a shame to see third parties back out



It was indeed.  The first one was amazing though.  Abyss and Vesperia were awesome.

Graces showed a lot of promise, especially in the part where Richard was trying to get revenge.  Later on the story fell flat in my opinion.



S.A.F said:


> Not looking forward to the launch. Playstation has had crappy launches or first years except for with PS1 since it had Crash Bandicoot the first year.



Was going to rep for that set, but gotta spread.  :/

I still gotta watch original Queen's Blade.  I only saw the second series.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

We're getting a somewhat clearer picture of Durango.

A 1.2 tflop GPU

8 gigs of ram, definitely DDR3/4, 6 most likely for games with 2 for OS

8 core jaguar CPU

Apparently there are also a few "secret sauce" applications to assist the GPU in making it even more powerful, although i could not tell you what those are.


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 15, 2013)

I'm pretty sure someone from Microsoft released an official statement saying that the specs of the Durango were already leaked, but it was up to us to decipher the truth from the rumors. I'm not exactly sure where I saw that, though. 



Inuhanyou said:


> The appeal is only known to people who buy the product. That's like saying "i don't know the appeal of anything i don't own because i don't feel the need to own said product".
> 
> as for me, the appeal is that i like the controller and Microsoft's exclusive games this gen. If they come out hard next gen with the same kind of zeal that was seen at the start of 360's lifetime, it'll be the same situation for me.



I don't own an Xbox, but I've played plenty of a friend's Xbox. I hate the fact that you need to pay to play online, and most of the exclusives single player modes can be beaten in a day or two of playing intensive co-op. I think the only exclusive RPG the Xbox has that I would want to play is Tales of Vesperia, and I'm not buying a system for just one game. Especially when I can play and finish all the other worthwhile exclusives without owning the system. 

However, I do very much like the 360 controller. That thing is goddamn comfy. 

I am very much an RPG kind of guy, and Nintendo and Sony systems have me completely covered on that front as well as with a variety of other games. And if I want to play shooters and just other games in general I have a PC for that. 

An Xbox really has nothing to offer me, unfortunately.


----------



## James Bond (Jan 15, 2013)

The big game attatched to new Xbox will be Halo most likely.. as for the new Playstation possibly a new Uncharted game or something.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

Halo 4 already came out this year though, they won't have another in time for launch. I say they are going to have to bring out other flagship titles, maybe a few new IP's.


----------



## dream (Jan 15, 2013)

New IPs from Microsoft would be lovely but it'll be third party exclusives that I'll be keeping an eye out for.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

Yeah, they are the ones who will be bringing the big guns at E3


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## Akira Kurusu (Jan 15, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> I don't own an Xbox, but I've played plenty of a friend's Xbox. I hate the fact that you need to pay to play online, and most of the exclusives single player modes can be beaten in a day or two of playing intensive co-op. I think the only exclusive RPG the Xbox has that I would want to play is Tales of Vesperia, and I'm not buying a system for just one game. Especially when I can play and finish all the other worthwhile exclusives without owning the system.
> 
> However, I do very much like the 360 controller. That thing is goddamn comfy.
> 
> ...



This. I appreciate that people love XBL's contents, universal chat, and etc with  the 360's OS as much as the next guy. But the subscription thing is really one of the biggest points that turn me off the most from getting another 360 for more online socializing & gaming, in which the PS3 has covered will likely continue with the PS4 (unless Sony actually forces you subscription fees as well), plus Nintendo/Sony's offerings IMHO have more variety within their big budget IPs that usually rape my wallet in more ways than one (:ho). Though that's not to say the 360 is a _bad_ console since it is a very appealing core brand to the western market, and the third party support for it ain't nothing to snuff at after how much marketshare MS have took from Sony and most of their third party exclusives. It's just something i'm not too into, despite peaking some curiosity of how the 720 will go all out in the future. Idk about the Tales of-whateve though since never played a single game from the franchise yet.

Though yeah, the 360 controller is pretty dope.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 15, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Idk about the Tales of-whateve though since never played a single game from the franchise yet.
> 
> Though yeah, the 360 controller is pretty dope.


----------



## Reyes (Jan 15, 2013)

Get Xilla when it comes out.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

Xilla is very good. Graces is GARBITCH though  Vesparia is awesome, one reason to own an Xbox JRPG  And Lost Odyssey, as well as Eternal Sonata(atleast when it was exclusive) and Blue Dragon i guess, that one is pretty good.

As for the live subscription, most people on live pay it just cause its dollars a month. Having a job makes it really chump change in comparison. It only really becomes a problem if you have a conceptual problem with paying anything annually for online. I don't, but i can see why other people do, and i respect that.

Of course nothing will stop me from taking advantage of Sony's/Nintendo's free online and Live at the same time 

It would become a bigger problem of course, if PSN actually became a paid service next gen. Then you'd have to choose.


----------



## Raiden (Jan 15, 2013)

I really don't like the directions the handhelds took, so hopefully this works out.

.


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 15, 2013)

Sony is in no position to be bending its customers over the table.

Though that may not stop them from doing so.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

Yeah, don't act like that would stop them if they really wanted to. You should take a look at some of their patents...


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 15, 2013)

I'm still hoping online DRM stays far away from this gen. I want to buy used copies if I want to, dammit.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

same, i don't like the thought at all.


----------



## Reyes (Jan 15, 2013)

You guys think Naughty Dog is working on Uncharted 4?

Also anyone getting NI NO Kuni next Tuesday?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

I already have it halfway paid off.


----------



## Reyes (Jan 15, 2013)

Paid for it in full already

Wish I got it in time for the collector edition, I wanted that book


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

poor you -hugs-


----------



## dream (Jan 15, 2013)

Annoying Meowth Sensei said:


> You guys think Naughty Dog is working on Uncharted 4?



It's certainly possible though I wish that they would work on a new IP for the PS4.


----------



## Reyes (Jan 15, 2013)

That's what I get for waiting so long to preorder it I guess, but I didn't think it would be this painful

Well has ND said if The Last Of US will be a francise?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

No.

ALSO XSEED IS TEASING SOMETHING ON THEIR TWITTER

Its a picture of a tower with raindrops 

Pandora's tower courtesy of Operation Rainfall? SAY YES XSEED


----------



## Reyes (Jan 15, 2013)

How has the reviews for Pandora tower been?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

Well its a good game from what i heard. Just not localized in America


----------



## Reyes (Jan 15, 2013)

Wonder if SE will show something for next gen at the conferences?


----------



## dream (Jan 15, 2013)

Annoying Meowth Sensei said:


> Wonder if SE will show something for next gen at the conferences?



I wouldn't expect anything besides a tech demo before E3.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 15, 2013)

Annoying Meowth Sensei said:


> Wonder if SE will show something for next gen at the conferences?


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 16, 2013)

Bungie will be present at GDC. Might show something from their new IP



if they do, then I can see that rumor of Q1 console announcements being true


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 16, 2013)

Not much of a rumor. Kaz pretty much confirmed it for late May, and Microsoft is pretty much anywhere in the next 3 to 4 months.


Also HEY GUYS, I GOT LEAKED EARLY DURANGO LAUNCH GAME UFC CHARACTER MODELS


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 16, 2013)

*Get ready for more Kinect; next-gen Xbox motion control kits in devs' hands*



> *Select games studios across Europe are working on "the next generation of motion control" with new development kits, CVG has learned.
> 
> According to a games developer familiar with the situation, Microsoft has already briefed a number of studios on the next phase in its motion control initiative. Future Xbox plans are so tightly guarded, however, that the source has not seen the development kits in person.
> It is not yet clear whether Microsoft will use technologies similar to Kinect for its next-gen motion control plans.*
> ...


----------



## dream (Jan 16, 2013)

Oh god, I hope that Microsoft doesn't take up too much of their E3 conference with Kinect crap.


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 17, 2013)

Be prepared for it, Preet.


----------



## dream (Jan 17, 2013)

Ugh, I still remember Microsoft's 2010 E3 conference. 

That said, I loved how silent the audience was during the Kinectimals showing.


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 17, 2013)

KINECT! SMARTGLASS!! USHER!!!


----------



## dream (Jan 17, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]l2fCA6cZHnI[/YOUTUBE]

NOTHING can top that.


----------



## Reyes (Jan 17, 2013)

Kinect


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## Akira Kurusu (Jan 17, 2013)

Oh lord was MS's E3 2010 conference really *that* bad? I heard the others from 2011-12 sucked but man i could imagine the reactions with the girl playing Kinectamals (sinces that's one of the only bits i remember from it) being sour to the core.


----------



## dream (Jan 17, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Oh lord was MS's E3 2010 conference really *that* bad? I heard the others from 2011-12 sucked but man i could imagine the reactions with the girl playing Kinectamals (sinces that's one of the only bits i remember from it) being sour to the core.



It was that bad, worst conference I've seen in recent memory.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 17, 2013)

Aww come on it can't be worse than E3 2012 right? *RIGHT????* 


*Spoiler*: __ 



My eyes....


----------



## Reyes (Jan 17, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Aww come on it can't be worse than E3 2012 right? *RIGHT????*
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Microsoft will surprise you


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 17, 2013)

Can't be any worse than that Nintendo E3 2008



And last year as well...i don't know how you make an E3 reveal of a new console that crappy. Of course we can't forget Wunderbook for Sony either


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 18, 2013)

not sure how reliable this is


----------



## dream (Jan 18, 2013)

>Article Suggests that a mobile GPU may be the basis for the PS4


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 18, 2013)

Take anything you hear with a grain of salt. These websites are just taking shit that was said as speculation on gaf and beyond3D over the past few days as fact for clicks

HAVING SAID THAT, our speculation, and bkillian being the only known insider we've spoken with, shows that there is truth to it, although old as his hasn't been at Microsoft since last year.


----------



## Reyes (Jan 18, 2013)

Sony may be retiring the dualshock controller:


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 18, 2013)

that is by far their greatest invention, why would they do that? Reeks of unfounded BS


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 18, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Can't be any worse than that Nintendo E3 2008
> 
> 
> 
> And last year as well...*i don't know how you make an E3 reveal of a new console that crappy.* Of course we can't forget Wunderbook for Sony either



$599 will always dump on even a crap E3 reveal of a new console. Not that it makes last year's abomination any better.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 18, 2013)

You know what? Ken Kutaragi and Kaz Hirai say you are 100% correct


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 18, 2013)

Good thing about 720 and PS4 though, they have very modest components, which means your wallet won't be feeling the burn this time around. Not only that, it also means quieter/cooler consoles, they will be much harder to break, and the costs over time will go down faster. You won't be seeing them 300 bucks 5 years from now


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 18, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> You know what? Ken Kutaragi and Kaz Hirai say you are 100% correct



Who, me or Meowth Sensei?


----------



## Kensei (Jan 18, 2013)

Solaris said:


> >Article Suggests that a mobile GPU may be the basis for the PS4



It's not bad. It's too be expected. There was no way the Orbis and Durango were ever going to match high end desktop. We've hit a wall with the thermal envelope and power consumption. As well, bringing high end pc parts down in size is difficult to say the least given yields on silicon parts fabricated at less than 28nm are incredibly low and you would be losing money on bad parts.


----------



## Reyes (Jan 18, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Who, me or *Meowth Sensei*?



It's Annoying Meowth Sensei


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 18, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Who, me or Meowth Sensei?



You 


A custom 7970M might just be what Sony is using too...shrink it down to 28nm, put it in an APU, take out 10 to or 15% of power bits and you have around 1.8tflops.

That's nothing to laugh at in a console closed box.

It seems like both consoles have different abilities, but in terms of pure horsepower, Orbis is more powerful as far as we know considering they are using GDDR5 supposedly

Of course Durango is going to have EDRAM and that should help with their main memory bandwidth issue, and their speed is still going to be 6 times the Wii U's main bandwidth, as well as 3x 360's. 

And there are custom blocks that are supposed to help out graphical performance as well.

Putting all this junk together, it just might be a wash for either one.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 18, 2013)

> Of course Durango is going to have EDRAM and *that should help with their main memory bandwidth issue,* and their speed is still going to be 6 times the Wii U's main bandwidth, as well as 3x 360's.



What issue?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 18, 2013)

Well apparently ps4 might be using GDDR5 ram. that's about 192gb's a second. Compared to Durango's DDR3 for 60gb's a second.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 18, 2013)

Then would that put it as around 10-20% slower than the PS4? And how well will it fare with PS4/Durango multiplatform ports?


----------



## Kensei (Jan 18, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Then would that put it as around 10-20% slower than the PS4? And how well will it fare with PS4/Durango multiplatform ports?



The Durango GPU is also targeted at 1.2 tflops. So, the Orbis doesn't simply have better bandwidth. It has more processing capability.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 18, 2013)

^ Not necessarily. In terms of pure "processing power", PS4's GPU is ahead, but i've heard from certain sources that PS4 is most likely using GCN architecture, while Durango is using GCN2. It that truly is the case, that performance gap narrows, as the efficiency between the two generations is shown.  Pair that with the apparent 3 custom bits of silicon dedicated to enhancing graphics capability in Durango, and it might make the two GPU's difference quite negligible in real world performance.




Asakuna no Senju said:


> Then would that put it as around 10-20% slower than the PS4? And how well will it fare with PS4/Durango multiplatform ports?



Again, not necessarily. It has an unidentified amount of ED(or ES) ram, which can help a lot when bridging that gap. More specifically, devs will probably make a compromise action between both of their bandwidth speeds to give them more ease of development and make the differences between multiplats for the most part negligible. Of course there will be specific games that need fine tuning, but it should be fine.


----------



## Id (Jan 21, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Well apparently ps4 might be using GDDR5 ram. that's about 192gb's a second. Compared to Durango's DDR3 for 60gb's a second.



I was hoping sony  would use xdr2 instead.


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 21, 2013)

vgleaks on Durango


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jan 21, 2013)

biggest concerns for next gen:-

>multiplatforming dies
>everything region-locked again
>shitty gimmicks


----------



## Bungee Gum (Jan 21, 2013)

Biggest concern is not the worsening of DLC, huge dev costs, less games, less multi's....my main concern is locking out games and 100% internet connection

I mean let me just say, like  right now it's like we have G.W. Bush  as president of video gaming, but if next gen comes along and they lock out games and 100% internet, then we will have Romney, or worse then romney, like Dick cheney or something


----------



## Blunt (Jan 21, 2013)

Has there been any word on backwards compatibility? I doubt the PS4 will have it since Sony is probably going to keep marketing the PS3 for several years after it's release but what about the next gen Xbox?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 21, 2013)

I'd say Durango has a good chance of having it. Also, PS4 could not have it even if they wanted to include it. Sony went AMD and not only that, the costs of including the cell in the PS4 would probably be not worth it when they have digital store for PS1/PS2/PS3 games as well as their gaikai aquisition which kind of eliminates the need for hardware BC(although i really expect them to still support ps1 HW BC)


----------



## Blunt (Jan 21, 2013)

Hmm. Making my decisions more difficult. I didn't buy a home console from this gen so I'll probably be a day one adopter to the Durango/PS4.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jan 21, 2013)

Goova said:


> Biggest concern is not the worsening of DLC, huge dev costs, less games, less multi's....my main concern is locking out games and 100% internet connection
> 
> I mean let me just say, like  right now it's like we have G.W. Bush  as president of video gaming, but if next gen comes along and they lock out games and 100% internet, then we will have Romney, or worse then romney, like Dick cheney or something



ok you win..


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 21, 2013)

good news is i have no heard of any official sounding rumors of used game blocks yet


----------



## Ultimania (Jan 21, 2013)

I'll likely get a PS4 two to four years after it's released once they release games that I actually want and when it has a price cut or two.

Xbox...720? I'll pass.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jan 21, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> good news is i have no heard of any official sounding rumors of used game blocks yet



but it's sony.. it's sony


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 21, 2013)

I want both of these devices, just hook them into veins


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 21, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> good news is i have no heard of any official sounding rumors of used game blocks yet



How would you react if it was true?


----------



## Geralt of Rivia (Jan 21, 2013)

PC master race checking in.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 21, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> How would you react if it was true?



Well, i would be pissed i can say that.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Jan 22, 2013)

Geralt of Rivia said:


> PC master race checking in.


PC master race is still living in '98 I see


----------



## Hatifnatten (Jan 22, 2013)

The rumored 720 characteristics are fucking garbage.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 22, 2013)

Hatifnatten said:


> The rumored 720 characteristics are fucking garbage.



Not..really? 


On paper, the GPU's 'flops' are about 6x what we've got now in both PS3 and 360. But in practice, the GPU's actual performance is going to be closer to 10 or 11 times what we have now. Because you can't take pure floating point operations as some kind of pure barometer of performance when your talking about things like amount of shaders, compute units, and of course memory bandwidth allocation and efficiency improvements.

In addition, we've got 16x the memory of today with about 10 times more usable for games, that's a bigger jump in pure memory than both xbox and PS2 to 360 and PS3 respectively and the jump in bandwidth from about 20gb/s to 68gb/s is actually more than the jump in memory bandwidth from original xbox to 360.

Not only that, but one Durango CPU core(out of 8) is actually equal in processing ability the entire Wii U CPU, with processing cycles almost being equal.


When you scale this to a fixed function unit like a dedicated gaming platform, its a huge jump over what we have right now in both PS3 and 360.

Only difference from last gen, was that the 360 was close to being a high end machine even in the PC world when it debuted, and the 720 will be closer to the low/mid end of the spectrum in PC terms.  

So it depends on what your actually talking about. If you compare the specs of 720 and even PS4 to modern desktop GPU components, they are pretty garbage(because that 3.5 GDDR5 of PS4's is gonna be limited real quick if your aiming for more than tunnel games)

But if your comparing them to previous console generations, its pretty equal. The feeling your experiencing right now is the fact that the TDP requirements for high end GPU's have gone up in the long ass time since the last major console hardware update, and neither Microsoft and Sony are willing to blow loads of cash for years in order to make up the difference again.

Sony skimped on Ram for a more powerful GPU, Durango skimped on GPU for much more ram.

They are both far above what can be done on PS3 and 360 by default, but considering dev priorities for feature parity in games, the 720 and PS4 difference is gonna be somewhat of a wash(atleast for multiplats )


----------



## Id (Jan 22, 2013)

So far Xbox 720/PS4 are a hardware disappointment. 

This generations high end cards GTX 680 or hd 7970 are 16x more powerful than the current consoles. 

The next gens are coming out when? around 2014. Say hello to the Nvidia Maxwell.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 22, 2013)

You don't compare PC hardware to fixed hardware like consoles. Your not going to get a high end component in a console, that's just how it is these days.

The TDP of those parts are just on a whole nother level compared to how they were in 2005. Its wishful thinking and dreams.

What you should be looking at is what devs can do with this new power they've been given.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 22, 2013)

Inu, did you just use real world scenario's of how the 720 could preform compared to what spec sheets dictated on your previous post? :ho


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 22, 2013)

Mind saying that again? I don't understand your meaning


----------



## Haohmaru (Jan 22, 2013)

Id said:


> So far Xbox 720/PS4 are a hardware disappointment.
> 
> This generations high end cards GTX 680 or hd 7970 are 16x more powerful than the current consoles.
> 
> The next gens are coming out when? around 2014. Say hello to the Nvidia Maxwell.


Yeah, but using high end cards on consoles is crazy talk. Do you wanna fork over $500-1000 for a console?


----------



## dream (Jan 22, 2013)

Haohmaru said:


> Yeah, but using high end cards on consoles is crazy talk. Do you wanna fork over $500-1000 for a console?



I wouldn't mind shelling out $500 for a console.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 22, 2013)

Its not just the cost. If it was just a matter of cost, Microsoft atleast could do it if they wanted to, and subsidize the cost with loss on the hardware like they did last generation and the generation before that. Hell Sony probably could. 

Even though they wouldn't because they want to go for a profit this time(not a bad thing at all considering how much last gen did to Sony especially), atleast if they wanted to, it would not be impossible.

But this time, it IS physically impossible to fit a high end unit inside of a console that is supposed to run at a lower power consumption and actually not burn out like fat PS3 or even worse early 360s.

Heat in high end GPU's has almost doubled since 2005's GPU's, it would simply be untenable, same with high end CPU wattage.

That's why they are using SoC's and APU combinations as well as mobile GPU and CPU parts. They are cheaper and more reliable when power consumption and wattage are priorities.


We won't be seeing either of these consoles launch for anything over 499 no matter the SKU


----------



## Id (Jan 23, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> You don't compare PC hardware to fixed hardware like consoles. Your not going to get a high end component in a console, that's just how it is these days.
> 
> The TDP of those parts are just on a whole nother level compared to how they were in 2005. Its wishful thinking and dreams.
> 
> What you should be looking at is what devs can do with this new power they've been given.


Yet your doing the exact same thing. Comparing fixed hardware to pc hardware. The only difference is I am not praising, Sony or M$.





Haohmaru said:


> Yeah, but using high end cards on consoles is crazy talk. Do you wanna fork over $500-1000 for a console?


I paid $600 for the Fat PS3. 



Inuhanyou said:


> Its not just the cost. If it was just a matter of cost, Microsoft atleast could do it if they wanted to, and subsidize the cost with loss on the hardware like they did last generation and the generation before that. Hell Sony probably could.
> 
> Even though they wouldn't because they want to go for a profit this time(not a bad thing at all considering how much last gen did to Sony especially), atleast if they wanted to, it would not be impossible.
> 
> ...


Heat in high end GPU's has almost doubled since 2005's GPU's.... Well just keep in mind, the new Maxwell cards are designed to be far more efficient than Kepler.

What I am saying is, there is nothing amazing about next gens in terms of graphical powers. Its actually quite disappointing. They are rolling out around the same time Maxwell is setting in. And at best, those new next gens will have a graphical output to the Low end cards....if that.

In reality, current gtx 680 can be found for what? $350-400. And these cards are over 2x more powerful. 

Rolling out fresh out of the assembly line. In terms of graphical output, the next gens will be 2 years behind  next gen pc, that to me is extremely disappointing.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 23, 2013)

^ *DON'T COMPARE PC'S TO FIXED ARCHITECTURE IN TERMS OF GAMING*

99% of all games will be made with these consoles in mind, you have to remember that before anything else.

This means that the lowest common baseline for all games will be far beyond anything achievable currently on consoles or PC's no matter what components you have in your PC, which is what people should be hoping for no matter what platform they choose. Any multiplatform high end game you can think of for PC right now, was built using console limitations(aka 512MB ram, 250gflop GPU tricore dual threaded CPU) as a baseline no matter how pretty you think it is. 

When those baselines are destroyed this year, amazing games will be shown that eclipse anything seen before that point, its just a fact of life.


----------



## Id (Jan 23, 2013)

They want to implement mobile gfx units, for reliability huh?

Less power hogs.  
> Maxwell will introduce 20nm which would yield far greater GFLOPS per watt. Maxwell would yield better performance watt for watt. 

More reliability, we do not want a repeat of YLoD or RRoD. (victim of both here)
>Industry blunder on both ends. It was not so much inability to dispense heat efficiently. M$ opted out to finish the 360 design, instead of letting AMD handle it. Those crazy ring scratches? M$ did not want to spend extra pennies per unit, to outfit the disc reader with "bumpers". Sony's YLoD, the fucking thermo paste was poorly applied. -__-

Its obvious they want to make a profit per unit fresh of the assembly line. Nothing wrong with that. Just do not over look regardless of hardware, those reliability issues where due to them dropping the ball. 



Inuhanyou said:


> ^ *DON'T COMPARE PC'S TO FIXED ARCHITECTURE IN TERMS OF GAMING*
> 
> 99% of all games will be made with these consoles in mind, you have to remember that before anything else.
> 
> ...



Inuhanyou your comment has never left my mind. However If rumors are true, it still does not away the fact that next gen will adopt aged hardware.


----------



## Jak N Blak (Jan 23, 2013)

Just tell me whether or not these things would comfortably handle 60+ player Battlefield and I'm sold.

Lol.


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 23, 2013)

Id said:


> Inuhanyou your comment has never left my mind. However If rumors are true, it still does not away the fact that next gen will adopt aged hardware.



All the more reason why Steambox is looking like a better alternative. Multiple Manufacturers offering their own "steambox" versions means, with up-gradable hardware, means you can get better hardware than next X-box or PS4.

The main hurdle is finishing out a new Linux version that can Windows based software, or converting existing games to run on Linux, which is what Valve is currently working on. But that project could be out within months.

If Valve releases Half-life 3 as PC and Steambox exclusive, they'll sell Steamboxes.


----------



## Id (Jan 23, 2013)

Steam box has my interest. But I would already own superior gaming pc, than that offered by steam. 

But Project Shield is looking even yummier. A handheld that can stream off my Nvidia build. Sweeet


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 23, 2013)

Jak N Blak said:


> Just tell me whether or not these things would comfortably handle 60+ player Battlefield and I'm sold.
> 
> Lol.



Yep.



Id said:


> They want to implement mobile gfx units, for reliability huh?
> 
> Less power hogs.
> > Maxwell will introduce 20nm which would yield far greater GFLOPS per watt. Maxwell would yield better performance watt for watt.



What your saying is unfeasible. They are much more expensive than the parts both microsoft and Sony are using. More importantly, 20nm die shrinks aren't even on the market yet(We should be lucky if either of these two consoles ship with 28nm components this year, yields are terrible as it is!), they have been designing these consoles for 2+ years already and have been planning to launch this year, how do you expect them to implement components that won't be ready or on time for their budget?

If possible, i'm sure Sony would have implemented 2.5D stacking on their ram which would have made it much cheaper and effecient, and they would not have had to use an expensive process like GDDR5 and instead could have gone with a much cheaper DDR4 solution, as well as a Sea islands GPU and an even more advanced CPU.


I'm simply saying that your not looking at this with a clear eye when these companies have strict deadlines, budgetary concerns and planning routines months and years in advance. They aren't simply going to drop their development periods, redo their product  delay it indefinitely because something better comes along during creation, they would never finish it.



> Inuhanyou your comment has never left my mind. However If rumors are true, it still does not away the fact that next gen will adopt aged hardware.



What do you mean by "aged"?  If the rumors are true, Durango is adopting a Jaguar based CPU, pretty new actually, it just came out late last year, its only January. As well as a GCN2 GPU, essentially an HD8000 series architecture, something coming out this year, just in time for its launch, and DDR3 RAM was created after 360, although relatively old, is still the only remotely aged component in the entire rumored package.

I think your not saying "old", but "not powerful enough".  

What i'm saying to you is, considering that devs will be developing games to that fixed architecture, the games will look great and much better than they do right now. Looking at the paper specs themselves is not indicative of what you will see on the screen when the games are revealed


----------



## Jak N Blak (Jan 23, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Yep.



Life is complete. Thank you!


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 23, 2013)

BF4 is coming out this year anyway, so you probably won't have much longer to find out about it. Its gonna def be at E3


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 24, 2013)

Id said:


> Steam box has my interest. But I would already own superior gaming pc, than that offered by steam.
> 
> But Project Shield is looking even yummier. A handheld that can stream off my Nvidia build. Sweeet



Word has it Nvidia is developing a device that lets you use your existing PC stream Steam's Big Picuture mode PC to your television and allow you to use whatever peripheral devices you want as if it were a console. 

Gabe Newel was talking about the Card only costing $100, so people who already have good gaming PCs don't need to buy a Steam Box to get the experience. The "Steam Box" is more a turn key solution for people who don't already have gaming PCs.

In other words the "Steam Box" is simply a way to turn Console Gamers into PC Gamers.


----------



## Id (Jan 24, 2013)

strongarm85 said:


> Word has it Nvidia is developing a device that lets you use your existing PC stream Steam's Big Picuture mode PC to your television and allow you to use whatever peripheral devices you want as if it were a console.
> 
> Gabe Newel was talking about the Card only costing $100, so people who already have good gaming PCs don't need to buy a Steam Box to get the experience. The "Steam Box" is more a turn key solution for people who don't already have gaming PCs.
> 
> In other words the "Steam Box" is simply a way to turn Console Gamers into PC Gamers.



If Valve and Nvidia can pull this off, a new era in gaming will emerge.

I want to flip like 10 tables over this.


----------



## Grape (Jan 24, 2013)

Gaming should be done on PC 

Links about this SteamBox?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 24, 2013)

Gaming should be done on whatever gaming unit one feels like playing on 

Damned elitists, don't shit up this thread with your bullcrap

this is for next gen PS4 and 720 only


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 24, 2013)

yeah as much as I'm curious about SB, I rather have this thread be about the consoles (even if I'm not going to buy any of them in the foreseeable future )

anyway, AMD APUs for both consoles are all but confirmed, right? Is this going to mean easier porting with multiplat titles on all platforms? And more stabile performance? 



> Word has it Nvidia is developing a device that lets you use your existing PC stream Steam's Big Picuture mode PC to your television and allow you to use whatever peripheral devices you want as if it were a console.



isn't that basically Nvidia Shield?


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 24, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> isn't that basically Nvidia Shield?



Different product, similar concept.


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 24, 2013)

^ oh you mean it will be one of those ~99$ "good" tier devices?

vgleaks on Orbis devkits



and here's a blog article by Timothy Lottes sharing his outsider views on both consoles





> The real reason to get excited about a PS4 is what Sony as a company does with the OS and system libraries as a platform, and what this enables 1st party studios to do, when they make PS4-only games. If PS4 has a real-time OS, with a libGCM style low level access to the GPU, then the PS4 1st party games will be years ahead of the PC simply because it opens up what is possible on the GPU. Note this won't happen right away on launch, but once developers tool up for the platform, this will be the case. As a PC guy who knows hardware to the metal, I spend most of my days in frustration knowing damn well what I could do with the hardware, but what I cannot do because Microsoft and IHVs wont provide low-level GPU access in PC APIs. One simple example, drawcalls on PC have easily 10x to 100x the overhead of a console with a libGCM style API.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 24, 2013)

Coding to the metal is if you have fixed hardware. The reason why PC's have API's in the first place is because no PC's are the same. API's like DX are to set a base standard across all platforms of development to make it easier on devs.

PS4 and Durango are gonna be good devices considering how devs have squeezed life out of these old dogs of consoles we have right now


----------



## Majinsaga (Jan 25, 2013)

Grape Krush said:


> Gaming should be done on PC
> 
> Links about this SteamBox?



Yes, yes it should . Sadly most people don't think that way or are really just too technologically impaired.

"I can't use a controller on a PC". 

"I can't sit on my couch and play on the PC".

etc.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 25, 2013)

Or we like exclusives, or we just don't feel like it.

Stay on topic  If you want to wank about PC's there's a place for it


----------



## Jake CENA (Jan 26, 2013)

You guys worry too much about the console specs and such but you guys arent concerned about the controllers and how the new games would be distributed?


----------



## dream (Jan 26, 2013)

TerminaTHOR said:


> You guys worry too much about the console specs and such but you guys arent concerned about the controllers and how the new games would be distributed?



Durango is likely going to be keeping the same controller.  PS4 will have a different controller but it likely won't be a radical change from Sony's current controller.  Sony probably learned its lesson with the boomerang controller.  As for game distribution...don't expect to see much change with the exceptioni of perhaps more focus on online distribution.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 26, 2013)

I wish we got some screenshots of what devs are working on for reveal this year, i can't stand the wait


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 26, 2013)

Honestly what would make the most sense is for Microsoft and Sony to just join forces. Let Sony design the hardware because they're fundamentally hardware manufacturers and that's what they're good at, and let Microsoft design the software because that's what they're best at.

Of course it'll never happen because there are too many big egos involved.


----------



## dream (Jan 26, 2013)

strongarm85 said:


> Honestly what would make the most sense is for Microsoft and Sony to just join forces. Let Sony design the hardware because they're fundamentally hardware manufacturers and that's what they're good at, and let Microsoft design the software because that's what they're best at.
> 
> Of course it'll never happen because there are too many big egos involved.



That would be bad for us, the less competition there is the worse it is for consumers.


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 26, 2013)

Solaris said:


> That would be bad for us, the less competition there is the worse it is for consumers.



Actually it depends on where you plan on spending most of your money.

If you plan on spending more money on Software instead of Hardware (which is true of most console owners) then its better for you if Microsoft and Sony join forces.

The main problem is exclusivity. Both consoles might be using Blue Ray Discs, but they're going to each be encoded differently so that one game can't be played on the other system, if they were on one platform, there would no longer be "exclusive" games. The Publishers would need to change the specs of their games far less and they would be able to sell more games at a lower cost as a result.

I mean lets be honest. Your not just buying an X-box or a Playstation for living room decor. Your buying those systems to play great games and getting all of the developers making games for one platform instead of two will increase the quantity and quality of games released.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 26, 2013)

So....do we have any game leaks yet? Any at all?


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 26, 2013)

There were some earlier this week for both systems. Do we know how legit those are?


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 26, 2013)

Can you post those? I can't recall any leaks from recently. Only hints how DA 3 will look awesome (blahblah), or that Bungie might introduce Destiny at GDC and that's it.

Really, only SW 1313 and Watch Dogs so far are games that were shown :/

oh and that tower defense game running on UE4


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 26, 2013)

Those were run on dedicated PC's right? I wonder what they will look like when completely optimized for Durango/PS4 architecture. What an exciting time and prospect


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 26, 2013)

Yeah, iirc both ran with a GTX680, but I also read it somewhere that one of these used a triple GPU setup and got optimized later  or was that Agni's Philosophy? Don't know.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 26, 2013)

I'm not sure. I know that Agni ran with a single GTX 680 and i7 set up with 32 gb of ram, but apparently nothing in the demo was taxing at all to the set up and could have run on something much weaker, and everything was completely unoptimized to boot(for example they pulled the CG assets right from Visual work's CG version of the demo(they made a CG movie by Visual works and a real time version in Luminous Engine to compare the two). 

Apparently also, the demo only used 1.8gb of RAM and ran at full 1080p 60fps with 8xMSAA plus FXAA.

Once they optimize for 720 and PS4, we might get results that are close to that with certain things obviously scaled down.


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 27, 2013)

Durango AKA Next X-Box

*Spoiler*: __ 






CPU:

- x64 Architecture

- 8 CPU cores running at 1.6 gigahertz (GHz)

- each CPU thread has its own 32 KB L1 instruction cache and 32 KB L1 data cache

- each module of four CPU cores has a 2 MB L2 cache resulting in a total of 4 MB of L2 cache

- each core has one fully independent hardware thread with no shared execution resources

- each hardware thread can issue two instructions per clock

GPU:

- custom D3D11.1 class 800-MHz graphics processor

- 12 shader cores providing a total of 768 threads

- each thread can perform one scalar multiplication and addition operation (MADD) per clock cycle

- at peak performance, the GPU can effectively issue 1.2 trillion floating-point operations per second

High-fidelity Natural User Interface (NUI) sensor is always present

Storage and Memory:

- 8 gigabyte (GB) of RAM DDR3 (68 GB/s)

- 32 MB of fast embedded SRAM (ESRAM) (102 GB/s)

- from the GPU’s perspective the bandwidths of system memory and ESRAM are parallel providing combined peak bandwidth of 170 GB/sec.

- Hard drive is always present

- 50 GB 6x Blu-ray Disc drive

Networking:

- Gigabit Ethernet

- Wi-Fi and Wi-Fi Direct

Hardware Accelerators:

- Move engines

- Image, video, and audio codecs

- Kinect multichannel echo cancellation (MEC) hardware

- Cryptography engines for encryption and decryption, and hashing




The Original Source for the Durango leak is VGleak.com

Of the two it's the most in depth and according to them is based on an actual Durango Development Kit they received.


Orbis AKA PS4

System Memory: 8GB
Video Memory: 2.2 GB
CPU: 4x Dual-Core AMD64 “Bulldozer” (so, 8x cores)
GPU: AMD R10xx
Ports: 4x USB 3.0, 2x Ethernet
Drive: Blu-Ray
HDD: 160GB
Audio Output: HDMI & Optical, 2.0, 5.1 & 7.1 channels

The source for the PS4 leak is Kotaku.

The Video Card memory lines up with an ATI Card that came out about 2 years ago.

Supposedly, the X-box 720 and the PS4 will both be using ATI Graphics cards, so I would assume that their stock prices should be up quite a bit over these leaks. Now is probably a good time to buy.


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 27, 2013)

It should be noted that the PS4 leak contradicts an earlier leak from last week, but is a significantly more powerful machine than the one presented last week.

Judging by the language used by Sony's CEO this week, they are going to wait for Microsoft to release their specs first before they release theirs.

It is entirely possible that the current PS4 dev kits are based on minimum specifications that Sony is shopping for, and they could up the hardware specs even more once they figure out how the X-box 720 is going to ship. Their current specs would meet their goal of offering a supierior hardware experience, but PC gamers will be years ahead of where the PS4 launches.

The PS4 leaked specs are very similar to my 2 year old computer.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 27, 2013)

There were other leaks? I didn't hear of any besides those VG leaked specs there.


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 27, 2013)

There was a leak from last week, but I don't think people put a lot of stock in it. This weeks leak is a fairly realistic picture of what Sony might release.

The source apparently is also the same guy who leaked the Durango specs last week. For someone to possess both development kits would suggest that this individual someone who works for a 3rd party developer, or somebody who was recently lost their job from a 3rd party developer.

There have been some major lay offs in the industry lately. Personally, I feel that it's no small coincidence that these leaks are happening at the same time THQ is auctioning off all of it's assets.


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 28, 2013)

wasn't sure where to put it, but here are some new Agni footages regarding hair 


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEp47UEjxFk#![/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih3Fjb8XB6g#![/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Jake CENA (Jan 28, 2013)

datPubicHair.


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 28, 2013)

Orbis said:
			
		

> LIVERPOOL SOC
> 
> Custom implementation of AMD Fusion APU Arquitecture (Accelerated Processing Unit)
> Provides good performance with low power consumtion
> ...


----------



## steveht93 (Jan 28, 2013)

The leaks from VGleaks Are a bit similar to the previous leaks. I am smelling a new console announcement.

Maybe at destination Playstation next month?


----------



## dream (Jan 28, 2013)

INB4 we never see stuff like this in a game this generation.


----------



## Patchouli (Jan 28, 2013)

Solaris said:


> INB4 we never see stuff like this in a game this generation.



So help me, we will. Even if I have to do a Kickstarter project to get it going.

The whole game will be the story of an old druid with a beard, and his animal companions who live in his beard. The more animals he saves, the bigger his beard becomes, and the more powers he gets.

It will be glorious.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 28, 2013)

Both consoles seem like a nice step up. Nothing too outrageous, but since they are aiming for profitability that goes without saying.

hopefully third parties go for platform parity between the two, anything less would suck like it did for PS3 owners this gen.


----------



## steveht93 (Jan 28, 2013)

Next generation is gonna be won by exclusives  let the battle for the gamers dollar begin.


----------



## dream (Jan 28, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> Next generation is gonna be won by exclusives  let the battle for the gamers dollar begin.



Probably, a part of me wants Sony to be the clear winner.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 28, 2013)

Solaris said:


> Probably, a part of me wants Sony to be the clear winner.



With the way Sony has been I have doubts.
Nintendo always has a leg up on exclusives since they make a large amount of their own games instead of contracting 3rd parties.
Xbox has... rare?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 28, 2013)

Solaris said:


> Probably, a part of me wants Sony to be the clear winner.



not personal, but nah...


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 28, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> Next generation is gonna be won by exclusives  let the battle for the gamers dollar begin.



Not really? Majority of revenue this gen was acquired by third party games, unless you say that Sony's habit of throwing every single IP they have at the wall was successful.

They will win by affordability, accessibility, and variety in my opinion.

I think both will have a shot, but PS4 is obviously going to be focused more towards the gaming ecosystem whereas 720 will be an all around type of machine that does a lot of different things. It sacrificed the gaming aspect(read graphics and power)_somewhat_ for that when you compare both machines specs, but not to the point where its going to matter to 99% of the people. 

This goes double when you factor in that 720 and PS4 are really only separated in a major way by their ram speeds/sizes. The 50% of GPU power for PS4 and GDDR5 bandwidth will likely only matter much more to PS4 exclusives just like the EDRAM, data move engines and 2 GB's extra ram(provided that the OS takes up atleast 2GB) will do for 720, third party games will by default be tailored to the lowest common denominator between the two consoles for ease of development and platform parity's sake.

That means what's left for third parties to work with is about roughly 3 GB of ram at 60gb/s bandwidth operating on a 1.2 tflop budget.

Not a bad jump for 99% of all games.

Either way, what'll be done on these consoles will be lightyears away from the best of what we've seen this generation, even on PS3 with the cell being taken full advantage of.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 28, 2013)

The wii U won't throw ads at my face 24/7 like the xbox will it?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 28, 2013)

Well we don't know what Microsoft has planned, but you can bet that there will be ads in there somewhere. The revenue they gain from that is too much to pass up now that they've started it. As long as it remains (relatively)unobtrusive i can deal with it.

To be fair though, its not like Sony has not thought of doing worse. Their "ads before, after and during your games" patent was fucking groan inducing. Hopefully they don't put that in PS4.

And of course, any anti consumer activity like heavy handed DRM will not be supported by me on principle from either of the two console makers.


----------



## Id (Jan 28, 2013)

Sony is learning from their ps2/ps3 errors. 
> Opting out for a more developer friendly 
> Investing on a powerful APU.

I still think they feel short on the ram. Future proofing is key, 4GB will quickly show its age within 5th year.


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 28, 2013)

So, Inu, how big would you consider the jump from the PS2/Xbox to the PS3/360? And how does the jump from the PS3/360 to the PS4/720 fare in comparison, based on the rumored specs we've heard?


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 28, 2013)

The jump from gen 6 to 7 was pretty massive. PS2 had 400 MHz processor and the PS3 and 360 had 10 times the raw processor power and way more memory. They almost arnt comparable. The jump from 7 to 8 is much less by comparison maybe x5 to x7.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 28, 2013)

The ps2 still beats the ps3 in certain areas


----------



## Id (Jan 28, 2013)

strongarm85 said:


> The jump from gen 6 to 7 was pretty massive. PS2 had 400 MHz processor and the PS3 and 360 had 10 times the raw processor power and way more memory. They almost arnt comparable. The jump from 7 to 8 is much less by comparison maybe x5 to x7.



Oh you dun started something. You eagerly want Inuhanyou to hit you with a block of text filed with
fap
fap 
fap 
fap
fap
orbis
fap
fap
fap


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 28, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> So, Inu, how big would you consider the jump from the PS2/Xbox to the PS3/360? And how does the jump from the PS3/360 to the PS4/720 fare in comparison, based on the rumored specs we've heard?



The 360 and PS3 were a massive jump from PS2 and Xbox. Its hard to gauge such things because 360 and PS3 both used a much more efficient version of ram, much better more efficient GPU's and CPU's as well. Just like the next generation will.

But if you want me to spew some bullshit just on what i'm feeling, ps3 and 360 were easily 15x or more in power for virtually every metric besides CPU for their respective consoles(360 was like 8x original Xbox's CPU and PS3's CELL obviously in pure number crunching was like 20x PS2's CPU)

Next gen, if your talking purely on 360 and PS3 to 720 and PS4 jump, its still pretty good jump, but nowhere near as big.

720's GPU is like 5x 360's GPU on paper, but because of the efficiencies in GPU design over the course of this generation, its more like 8x (10x being the absolute limit).  The CPU in the 720 is like 7x the 360's(even jaguar cores, Xenos is fucking ancient). And the ram count for usable games memory is looking like 10x(the bandwidth on the ram is like 3x 360's plus more than 3x the embedded RAM of 360.)


For PS3 to PS4...the GPU in the PS3 was very inferior to Xenon in 360, so Sony has taken the lead for PS4 based on the rumors. Its like 14x PS3's dinky GPU, and the memory count is like 7x the PS3's. Which is all fine and good, but the real meat is the bandwidth of that GDDR5 memory, packing in almost 10 times the bandwidth of the PS3 and 360's ram bandwidth.  CPU is like 7x just like 720's from what i know


Now all that is just bullshit, cause multipliers themselves are bullshit with how intricate these components are together. So if you want to just skip all the bullshit, they are both a pretty decent jump from current gen, and will perform very well in a closed architecture. PS4 is superior in GPU and Ram speed, but 720 edges it in ram amount. They both are about the same CPU wise.


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks for the reply, I was just wondering.  In that case, how much is PC architecture really going to need to advance in order to keep up with "next gen" games? Since the PC gaming scene is essentially dictated by consoles, what kind of jumps do you think we'll be seeing on the PC scene? Will the top current PC stuff be able to run "next gen" (like having SLI 690s) or will the jump just be too big?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 28, 2013)

Depends on what you mean by that  you mean people with dual GPUs? Or just average joe?

I'm just throwing pie at the wind here but....for those who own a GTX 570 atleast, they may have to upgrade within a year, obviously the minimum ram requirements are going to go up significantly so yeah your going to also have to add some ram by default to keep things running smoothly at the very start. no more 2gb minimum spec requirements, its gonna go up atleast double as PC's have to power past overhead even with more powerful parts. CPU requirements are gonna go up as well as the 8 core set ups of both consoles is gonna make single and double core PC set ups obsolete as well.


----------



## Id (Jan 28, 2013)

720 has more ram, yet slower. Than that only means they have allocated memory for other functions, like kinetic or something.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 28, 2013)

From what we are hearing from the PS4, is it safe to say that it won't meet it's own end of bottlenecks and limits majorly inside it's own hardware as bad as the PS3's? Plus from what most people are thinking, regarding multiplats there are speculations going around that we might see a PS2 to XBOX situation regarding graphical differences and such. But i remain clear until the consoles have actually come out.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 28, 2013)

Basically, if your an enthusiast who owns something like a 680 or a 7970 already, you may be okay for the first few years.

But anyone with a single GPU set up right at this current point in time below the high end market  is gonna be hit hard. 

Current gen going on so long has coddled a lot of PC gamers into thinking they can power past anything with 100fps 16AF, 16xMSAA and 1080p all at once. Not gonna be that way for much longer.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 28, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> From what we are hearing from the PS4, is it safe to say that it won't meet it's own end of bottlenecks and limits majorly inside it's own hardware as bad as the PS3's? Plus from what most people are thinking, regarding multiplats there are speculations going around that we might see a PS2 to XBOX situation regarding graphical differences and such. But i remain clear until the consoles have actually come out.



PS4 is an infinitely better designed system than PS3. Think 360 level of easy development. Of course you could say Durango was the same way.

As for multiplatform advantage, this i can probably assure you will not happen. Development is only going to get more intricate next gen. Devs are going to want to have ease of development as i was saying earlier as well as platform parity. They aren't going to cripple a port (unless its Wii U or PC) if the the consoles are in the same general power bracket, cause that just makes the work harder for them to go back and downgrade just to get things to fit.  Basically, they are going to code to the lowest common denominator for both platforms for multiplats. Although i expect 720 and PS4 to boost their own specific advantages in first party titles.

GPU and ram speed for PS4. ram amount, maybe these illusive "sauces" of durango. 


But i can say with almost definite clarity that multiplats won't be much different.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 29, 2013)

> Devs are going to want to have ease of development as i was saying earlier as well as platform parity. They aren't going to *cripple* a port (unless its Wii U *or PC*) if the the consoles are in the *same general power* bracket, cause that just makes the *work harder* for them to go back and downgrade just to get things to fit.



Err what? How would a port get crippled for the PC, or as a matter of fact if both of the consoles were in the same power ballpark? Shouldn't that be the other way around? Especially when high end PC's always rip consoles to shreds. I don't follow.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 29, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Err what? How would a port get crippled for the PC, or as a matter of fact if both of the consoles were in the same power ballpark? Shouldn't that be the other way around? Especially when high end PC's always rip consoles to shreds. I don't follow.



PC's get half assed ports of console titles already, even today you know. Treated like second class citizens because consoles are the main development platform of all titles. The main development team farms the ports off to other devs to port to the PC, which leads to subpar optimization issues. 

Its only going to get worse next gen for PC gamers.


----------



## Id (Jan 29, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Err what? How would a port get crippled for the PC, or as a matter of fact if both of the consoles were in the same power ballpark? Shouldn't that be the other way around? Especially when high end PC's always rip consoles to shreds. I don't follow.



Console to PC ports are generally sloppy, regardless of your pc set up.


----------



## Corruption (Jan 29, 2013)

Yeah, a lot of games aren't optimized for the PC. It's a lot more work to do.


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 29, 2013)

Yeah the advantage of Skyrim on PC is the mods. The disadvantage is that it needs mods to be good.


----------



## EpicBroFist (Jan 31, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]d-3GMHIgR-U[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 31, 2013)

Wubwubwubwubwubwub


----------



## Krory (Jan 31, 2013)

inb4 PS Vita 2.


----------



## dream (Jan 31, 2013)

I'm going to be cautious and not assume that it will be a PS4 reveal.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 31, 2013)

GAF is hyped about it.. PS4!!!


----------



## dream (Jan 31, 2013)

GAF better be prepared for disappointment.


----------



## Brandon Heat (Jan 31, 2013)

Sony lied about waiting for Microsoft just so they can catch them off guard.


----------



## vegitabo (Jan 31, 2013)

way too early for this, gonna be a marketing bust.


----------



## Krory (Jan 31, 2013)

Lolololol, GAF.


----------



## Ultimania (Jan 31, 2013)

Oh _fucking_ Christ. I'm still going to buy a Wii U but Nintendo better start praying.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Jan 31, 2013)

Krory said:


> Lolololol, GAF.



GAF will never change. Though that goes for the all big 3 announcemetns in general.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 31, 2013)

Not all that hyped on ps4.
Each sony console is a gamble.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 31, 2013)

I would not doubt if it was the PS4 reveal. They are gonna need a headstart to gain marketshare and time for advertising and letting consumers know before it drops later this year, don't want a Wii U "is it a tablet?" Scenario.  Also....can't wait


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 31, 2013)

I already know I'm gonna go WiiU, PS4 and PC for next-gen unless Sony _really_ fucks it up.


----------



## DedValve (Jan 31, 2013)

Krory said:


> inb4 PS Vita 2.



Playstation Morte with Uncharted GA2 and Gravity Rush 2 

#mortesaved #YOLO #teaserofateaser


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 31, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> I already know I'm gonna go WiiU, PS4 and PC for next-gen unless Sony _really_ fucks it up.



I guess i'll be going Wii U Orbis Durango next gen...

but depending on how Sony plays their cards, my most played system may change around from 360 to PS4. Just seems like Sony might get the best support this time from Japanese and Western third parties along with their own pretty good first party offerings.


----------



## Death-kun (Jan 31, 2013)

Unless Microsoft gets some really good exclusives next-gen I'm probably going to skip them just like I did during the last two generations. Like I've said before, I can play all the worthwhile exclusives co-op during a couple overnight sessions with a friend on his 360. It's not worth it to me otherwise. The only Xbox exclusive I never got to play that I want to play is Tales of Vesperia, but I'm not gonna get a 360 just for that. 

So we'll see. I can play almost anything Microsoft has on the "superior" PC except for Gears and Halo. They'll need to convince me that their console has enough games and features that I can't get anywhere else.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jan 31, 2013)

Hopefully Microsoft puts out a lot of first party games this time. They're gonna need that


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 1, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I guess i'll be going Wii U Orbis Durango next gen...
> 
> but depending on how Sony plays their cards, my most played system may change around from 360 to PS4. *Just seems like Sony might get the best support this time from Japanese and Western third parties* along with their own pretty good first party offerings.



The PS4 will get support, i know that. Though for the best.....what about more exclusives from third parties? MS already took most of the popular ones from the PS brand since the beginning of the 7th gen, so who knows what they'll try to do this time around. Especially since both consoles may be in parity each other and how the Xbox brand has been making more $$$ in the U.S. than the PS brand i think (even though i still prefer Sony to them in a couple cases) despite hearing some difference in EU territories. But either way i'll still go for the PS4 since the PS3 had more nicer offerings in 1st party titles imo.  Cheers to Sony in which they hopefully won't screw the pooch up again!


----------



## valerian (Feb 1, 2013)

Anyone else get a PS2 vibe from that teaser? 

Anywho I'll probably be going Wii U and PS4 this time around, unless Sony really screws up or Microsoft does some changing up.


----------



## Id (Feb 1, 2013)

PC Master Race + Sony.

To much of M$ exclusives ends up being on the PC.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 1, 2013)

^ That might be changing if Microsoft's focus on the Xbox is to be believed. They are going to need the momentum


----------



## Ciupy (Feb 1, 2013)

Freaking finally.

It went on far too long,this console generation.


----------



## Krory (Feb 1, 2013)

I'm patiently awaiting more Wonderbook usage.


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 1, 2013)

All aboard the Sony hype train! Shit is about to finally get real. 

True next generation starts when Sony says so 

I don't mind paying 599$ for ps4 if the price is justifiable.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 1, 2013)

hahahaha, no.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 1, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-3GMHIgR-U&feature=youtu.be[/YOUTUBE]

GEE WILLIKERS, I SURE CAN'T WAIT TO HAVE NO GAMES IN 2013.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 1, 2013)

This is going to be livestreamed. Can we expect some game footages or at least tech demos to be shown?


----------



## Ciupy (Feb 1, 2013)

Deathbringerpt said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-3GMHIgR-U&feature=youtu.be[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> GEE WILLIKERS, I SURE CAN'T WAIT TO HAVE NO GAMES IN 2013.



Oh,you mean what is now widely called the Vita Syndrome?


----------



## Gunners (Feb 1, 2013)

I'll be going with a PS4 and Wii ( I think they cost less than ?30 second hand now).


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 1, 2013)

Why would you get a Wii at this point in time? Just wait and get a WiiU when it has the games you want, or you can buy it now and enjoy backwards compatibility until more WiiU games you want come out.


----------



## Gunners (Feb 1, 2013)

Because there are a few Wii games I want to play and I don't want to spend a lot of money on a WiiU.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 1, 2013)

Well, whatever floats your boat.  I'd just say wait if you have even the slightest feeling that you might want a WiiU down the line.


----------



## Gunners (Feb 1, 2013)

I'll probably get a WiiU in 2018.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 1, 2013)

People really believe that it is PS4 news.. Anyway, I am not hyped about it.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 1, 2013)

I am already for sure getting a WiiU.. I'll see whats this fuss about the PS4.. Sony has let me down this gen, so they need to pull me back


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 1, 2013)

*Edge: PS4 to launch in Europe in early 2014, is more powerful than next Xbox*



> Development sources with working knowledge of both next generation consoles have told us that PlayStation 4 will be more powerful than the next Xbox, will ship with a redesigned controller and launch by the end of the year in Japan and the US. PlayStation 4?s European launch will follow in early 2014.
> 
> Sony is set to reveal its next PlayStation on Wednesday February 20th at an event dubbed ?see the future?. Sony Computer Entertainment released a teaser video last night to announce the event. Below, our sources revealed what to expect from PlayStation 4.
> 
> ...


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 1, 2013)

Ciupy said:


> Oh,you mean what is now widely called the Vita Syndrome?



Vita?

I'm going way back to the PS3 days, son. Now that was a time when you could make proper fun of video games.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 1, 2013)

I just hope that the PS4 is not a lost for Sony because if it is not going to be a bright future for them.


----------



## Ciupy (Feb 1, 2013)

Deathbringerpt said:


> Vita?
> 
> I'm going way back to the PS3 days, son. Now that was a time when you could make proper fun of video games.



Even the worst PS3 games drought could not be compared with what the Vita offered us.

Also:



*



			Of course, this morning a Microsoft insider offered a poignant reminder: "Victory will go not to those who make the most noise, but those who make the most impact".
		
Click to expand...

*
Shots being fired.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 1, 2013)

*Polygon - Next Playstation shipping alongside Next Xbox this holiday.*

*Sources: Next PlayStation unveiled this month, shipping this holiday alongside next Xbox*



> The next PlayStation will be unveiled later this month, shown at this year's E3 and then launched this holiday where it will compete with the next Xbox, sources familiar with the console tell Polygon.
> 
> The information was provided to Polygon prior to last night's news of a Feb. 20 PlayStation Meeting in New York to "see the future." The Wall Street Journal is also reporting that sources have told them the console will come out this holiday, competing with the next Xbox.
> 
> ...


----------



## Id (Feb 1, 2013)

Sony is pushing to ram it up, to match 720 ram?


----------



## dream (Feb 1, 2013)

> Importantly, we’ve learned that Sony has told developers that it is pushing for the final PS4 RAM to match up to Microsoft’s 8GB.



Fucking do it Sony. 

Oh man, this EA is going to be a blast. 



> This is going to be livestreamed. Can we expect some game footages or at least tech demos to be shown?



Tech demos are a possibility.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 1, 2013)

Don't expect the tech demos to blow your mind


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 1, 2013)

lol, I can't wait for the prices.


----------



## dream (Feb 1, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Don't expect the tech demos to blow your mind



They're going to be pretty impressive, perhaps not the best that we've seen when it comes to tech demos but we should be impressed to a significant degree.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 1, 2013)

I'm guessing $400-$500 for the PS4 and 720. 

Bluray is dirt cheap nowadays and Sony isn't using the cell processor anymore. AMD is also considerably cheaper than building with Intel, and it's even cheaper when you buy in bulk, which is what companies who make game consoles do. I forget what kind of graphics card are being used in the consoles, but they're based off of Radeon builds, correct?


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 1, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Don't expect the tech demos to blow your mind



I'm pretty sure it's gonna blow *U* out ....


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 1, 2013)

We might see some good Tech demo.. I can't wait for overrated it Next Uncharted tech demo..

pek


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 1, 2013)

Can't wait to see what new ip Sony are gonna come up with. Sadly they are the only ones that are ready to take a chance and fund a new IP. Unlike some 

And hyped for next infamouse,uncharted,killzone. And I wonder how will next assassins creed and battlefield 4 will look like. Oh and watch dogs as well


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 1, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> Can't wait to see what new ip Sony are gonna come up with. Sadly they are the only ones that are ready to take a chance and fund a new IP. Unlike some



actually a new thread on GAF is saying that M$ is coming up with 4 new IP's..


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 1, 2013)

^

More than that actually. They have actually built 7 teams in the past few years that have been tasked with working on next gen projects(IPs), Sony's not the only one investing.




Id said:


> Sony is pushing to ram it up, to match 720 ram?



Either the article misquoted, or Sony is being disingenuous. Its impossible to do that and launch at an affordable price. Also, they would have to completely redesign the case before launch to put double the memory as GDDR5 runs extremely hot in its current form, and would not be viable at the speeds we've heard at that size.

MAYBE if they wanted to, they can get it to 6gb and downclock the speeds somewhat (maybe around 150gb/s, somewhere around there).  With that, 5.5 allocated to games and 512 allocated to OS is extremely great and would do well to be superior towards Durango's supposed 3gb DDR3 dedicated to OS with 5 allocated to games

But 8GB is just wishful thinking, that kind of ram has never shipped bundled in a commercial product. Atleast not yet. Its not viable in its current form.



Unlosing Ranger said:


> Don't expect the tech demos to blow your mind



You wanna....bet on that?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 1, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> ^
> 
> *More than that actually. They have actually built 7 teams in the past few years that have been tasked with working on next gen projects(IPs), Sony's not the only one investing.*


 Rare is working in a new IP correct?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 1, 2013)

^ Two. They have been hiring for a next gen action adventure title, and another one possibly an FPS.


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 1, 2013)

With the way things are going,I might go orbis+Durango next generation. I can't wait to see what Microsoft has under the hat But if kinect 2.0 is gonna be forced down my throat then fuck them.

I might get a wii u in the far future after a price drop and an OS update.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 1, 2013)

Why don't you have a Wii U already???


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 1, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> With the way things are going,I might go orbis+Durango next generation. I can't wait to see what Microsoft has under the hat But if kinect 2.0 is gonna be forced down my throat then fuck them.
> 
> I might get a wii u in the far future after a price drop and an OS update.



Kinect will be forced down your throat


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 1, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Why don't you have a Wii U already???



Games  and I'm waiting for a price drop.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 1, 2013)

I am concerned about the M$ kinect stuff but I am more concerned about Sony dumb asses...


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 1, 2013)

Kinect is apart of their strategy going forward. But as long as they improve it, i don't really mind. As long as they improve it, and keep it completely optional.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 1, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Kinect is apart of their strategy going forward. But as long as they improve it, i don't really mind. As long as they improve it, and keep it completely optional.



It cannot be improved enough.
It would have to be as good as a physical object.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 1, 2013)

Kinect is a physical object


----------



## DedValve (Feb 1, 2013)

Id said:


> Sony is pushing to ram it up, to match 720 ram?



I highly doubt that's the case. The only reason Durango has 8 cores is because windows is bloated as hell, 8gb of ddrm5 would do nothing but drive up the price, plus their current ram is already faster than dirangos (assuming the is of Durango takes 2-3gb).


----------



## dream (Feb 1, 2013)

> 8gb of ddrm5 would do nothing but drive up the price



What.  8GBs of DDRM5 would be goddamn fantastic, it would give devs even more resources to work with.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 1, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Kinect is a physical object


The Kinect isn't very kinecting.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 1, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> I might get a wii u in the far future after a price drop and an OS update.



Updates are coming in the Spring and Summer, price drop won't happen for years.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 1, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> Updates are coming in the Spring and Summer, price drop won't happen for years.



Especially since Nintendo, you know....wants to make a *PROFIT* on the console. Considering the 3DS price drop fiasco that hapoened two years ago.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 1, 2013)

This holiday season is going to be key for Nintendo. MK WiiU is a most for them. Is a system seller... The Retro project probably is coming to this holiday too..


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 1, 2013)

They'll also have Wind Waker HD and 3D Mario (no doubt). 

And maybe Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem, we don't know how long they've been working on it. We might also have Yoshi's Yarn too.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 1, 2013)

Having a hard time believing 8gb GDDR5 as well


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 1, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Especially since Nintendo, you know....wants to make a *PROFIT* on the console. Considering the 3DS price drop fiasco that hapoened two years ago.



Still sold better than vita


----------



## dream (Feb 1, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> Having a hard time believing 8gb GDDR5 as well



We likely won't get it but we can dream.


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 1, 2013)

Hey..where is final fantasy versus 13? Next gen is gonna start soon and it's no where to be seen.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 1, 2013)

DedValve said:


> I highly doubt that's the case. The only reason Durango has 8 cores is because windows is bloated as hell, 8gb of ddrm5 would do nothing but drive up the price, plus their current ram is already faster than dirangos (assuming the is of Durango takes 2-3gb).



Durango isn't using Windows 8 vanilla. Its just the Windows kernel similar to the OS's in previous Xbox's. It'll be based on Window 8, but not the full OS. It would not be viable in a console. 

The 8 cored jaguars is not because of Windows either, because Orbis also has 8 cored Jaguars.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 1, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> Hey..where is final fantasy versus 13? Next gen is gonna start soon and it's no where to be seen.



ANd I'm sure people can say goodbye to the last guardian.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 1, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> Hey..where is final fantasy versus 13? Next gen is gonna start soon and it's no where to be seen.



Here you go.

This post tells you everything you need to know


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 1, 2013)

They're saying maybe E3, Kagari confirmed it would be shown sometime this year so there's that. SE's tech director said in December that we would be happy when its showed off again because Nomura is attempting "revolutionary" things, whatever that means.

Its been 2 years since we've seen it last, its a mystery


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 1, 2013)

Is it safe to say that square Enix has lost the respect of most of its fans? I'm not really excited for the next FF. but they can win me back with KH 3,fuck versus its too late anyway.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 1, 2013)

^ Not really. Toriyama has lost all respect, and Kitase. but there are plenty of great devs at SE, it doesn't stop me from wanting the good games by the good developers.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 1, 2013)

Sony has to create IP's appealing to me. I don't really care about overrated it Uncharted, I don't care about Kill Zone [freaking robotic control scheme]God of war, and others cinematic/movie kind of games. It is about gameplay for me and their current IP's are not appealing to me.

The Last of Us so far looks meh. What a let down.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 1, 2013)

Malvingt2 said:


> Sony has to create IP's appealing to me. I don't really care about overrated it Uncharted, I don't care about Kill Zone [freaking robotic control scheme]God of war, and others cinematic/movie kind of games. It is about gameplay for me and their current IP's are not appealing to me.
> 
> The Last of Us so far looks meh. What a let down.



The main hype for it isn't possible.
I've seen it done before and it fails EVERY SINGLE TIME.
[YOUTUBE]KendHbID2gA[/YOUTUBE]
I don't know about you but PC is really heating up.


----------



## DedValve (Feb 1, 2013)

So...linux confirmed winner of next gen? 

Imma dig up this post in 6 or so years and see how it goes. It'll be just plain sad if Half Life 3 is annunced AND released before versus
*Spoiler*: __ 



lightnings revenge


 and the last guardian.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 1, 2013)

Assuming you mean the Steambox, well... we'll see.


----------



## Corruption (Feb 2, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Durango isn't using Windows 8 vanilla. Its just the Windows kernel similar to the OS's in previous Xbox's. It'll be based on Window 8, but not the full OS. It would not be viable in a console.
> 
> The 8 cored jaguars is not because of Windows either, because Orbis also has 8 cored Jaguars.



Yeah, I'm not sure why you would call a console OS bloated.


----------



## Jake CENA (Feb 2, 2013)

Next gen sucks anyway if most of the games to be expected are like these:

xbot720: all of our games are fps (who gives a fuck about other genres) yay!

wiiU: more mario games yay!


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 2, 2013)

How about we just wait and see what is announced before saying anything? Personally tho, the games we do know are being made fill me with hype x100


----------



## dream (Feb 2, 2013)

Cyberpunk is the game I'm most excited about on the next-gen/PC.  Game is going ot look gorgeous and I expect the rpg aspects to be amazing. 

The next Elder Scrolls game should be pretty interesting as well.

Anyways, if I do get a console then I'll almost certainly be getting a PS4 depending on how the controller feels.  Wasn't really a fan of the dual-shock controller when it came to shooting mechanics.


----------



## Krory (Feb 2, 2013)

Solaris said:


> Cyberpunk is the game I'm most excited about on the next-gen/PC.  Game is going ot look gorgeous and I expect the rpg aspects to be amazing.
> 
> The next Elder Scrolls game should be pretty interesting as well.
> 
> Anyways, if I do get a console then I'll almost certainly be getting a PS4 depending on how the controller feels.  Wasn't really a fan of the dual-shock controller when it came to shooting mechanics.



I'm sort of out of the loop on Cyberpunk (though it is something I am DEFINITELY interested in, being strewn with Gibson references I'm sure, but I figure it's probably still a while, so not getting too into it yet) - have they actually said or indicated/implied that it's going to be on console?


----------



## Hatifnatten (Feb 2, 2013)

Oh hey, SE was mentioned. You know what that means.

Versus is never coming, when is KH3, Toriyama is a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".), XIII sequels are terrible.


----------



## dream (Feb 2, 2013)

Krory said:


> I have they actually said or indicated/implied that it's going to be on console?



They have stated that it would be on next-gen consoles last year.



Given that the trailer's graphics are the target graphics I think that we can expect some really impressive things this generation.


----------



## Corruption (Feb 2, 2013)

I'm really excited for Cyberpunk and The Witcher 3 by them. I'll get those games for the PC, but still.


----------



## Krory (Feb 2, 2013)

Solaris said:


> They have stated that it would be on next-gen consoles last year.
> 
> 
> 
> Given that the trailer's graphics are the target graphics I think that we can expect some really impressive things this generation.



Excellent, since I know I won't ever have a computer capable of feasibly playing them.


----------



## DedValve (Feb 3, 2013)

*Pachter- "PS4 will have hyper realistic graphics and will run at 240 FPS"​*


> Sony Corp., trying to reverse a two-year decline in PlayStation sales, is prepping a powerful new version of the home console to deliver more realistic games and entertainment features, an analyst said.
> 
> Sony “is 100 percent certain to announce the PlayStation 4″ at a Feb. 20 event, Michael Pachter, an analyst with Wedbush Securities in Los Angeles, said Friday, citing his checks with game developers and retailers.
> 
> ...


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 3, 2013)

DedValve said:


> *Pachter- "PS4 will have hyper realistic graphics and will run at 240 FPS"​*



[YOUTUBE]ztVMib1T4T4[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## DedValve (Feb 3, 2013)

Maybe he meant to say it'll be 120 FPS but with the _feeeeel _of 240 fps?


----------



## dream (Feb 3, 2013)

> Pachter- "PS4 will have hyper realistic graphics and will run at 240 FPS"


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 3, 2013)

Ptacher is on drug, that is the only thing that makes sense..


----------



## dream (Feb 3, 2013)

Pachter is just trolling.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 3, 2013)

DedValve said:


> *Pachter- "PS4 will have hyper realistic graphics and will run at 240 FPS"​*


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 3, 2013)

Someone who doesn't know about tech should not be speaking about it  

Its just another showing of Patchers trolling, he has to be, he's an analyst he can't be that blatantly stupid and still be paid for it.

Hopefully Microsoft and Sony won't be going overboard with their proclamations this time like the "1tflop-2tflop" fiasco


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 3, 2013)

Is Pachter a clown or something?


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 3, 2013)

What was your first guess?


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 3, 2013)

Pachter has always been a clown lol.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 3, 2013)




----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 3, 2013)

I'm beginning to wonder if Patcher's even more out of touch with the video game industry than Reggie.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 3, 2013)

Now he's backtracking

"i never said it WOULD! I MEANT TO SAY IT _COULD_!"

 yeah sure whatever.

Even that is stupid. Maybe he meant that both next gen consoles would be able to run current gen games like DMC at 120fps and 1080p with 4xMSAA? I mean the GPU's they are packing would definitely make it possible and he's already halfway there in regards to framerate, but saying it "could" doesn't really matter because it won't happen.

He's just trolling semantics, greaseballs usually do that for marketing or investing confidence in stockholders


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 3, 2013)

wait a minute, he wants to make a tv show about neogaf on Tuesday? 



> On Tuesday, I'm taping a show dedicated to how GAFfers are (mostly) smart and are (mostly) assholes. It should be fun.
> 
> Yes, I always wonder what will set GAF off, and this was truly an innocent comment. To be honest with you, I have no idea how many frames per second the human eye can process, am pretty sure it's more than 60 fps, since we can all see the difference between 30 and 60, but I have no clue if we can see more than 120 fps, or if we can even see that. I was merely explaining to Cliff Edwards that four times the processing power would make the machine capable of rendering at that speed. I have no idea what the games will look like, which features they will incorporate, but my guess is that the specs will be sufficiently powerful that developers won't be particularly constrained from getting the look and feel that they desire. As one commenter pointed out, PC games have once again moved past console games, and each new generation of consoles allows the consoles to partially catch up.
> 
> ...


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 3, 2013)

So butthurt he is


----------



## Patchouli (Feb 3, 2013)

.


----------



## DedValve (Feb 3, 2013)

Goddamn I wish I had pachters job. You have to admit, it's a sweet deal. 

"NINTENDO IS DOOMED TO THIRD PARTY, WILL PROBABLY BE OWNED BY MICROSOFT" now where's my check?


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 3, 2013)




----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 3, 2013)

>Patcher
>TV show on NeoGAF

Are you fucking shitting me? What a loser.


----------



## DedValve (Feb 3, 2013)

Damn, Evilore and the rest of gaf is gunna be on TV? 

Ah heeeelllll yes. Looks like I'll have to reinstall my cable! 

Naruto Forums next Pachter


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 3, 2013)

If on NF, you mean the Gaming Department then sure why not. Pfft. 

Would like to hear how Patcher would respond to DedValve if it were the case.


----------



## dream (Feb 3, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Now he's backtracking
> 
> "i never said it WOULD! I MEANT TO SAY IT _COULD_!"
> 
> yeah sure whatever.



Pachter has perfected his trolling.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 3, 2013)

αshɘs said:


>



"let the games begin" so true


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 3, 2013)

Kaz Hirai

The final villain


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 3, 2013)

Dat Kaz  From what i've heard Sony's gonna try and do a non embarrassing sell job this time, let's hope so


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 3, 2013)

Actions speak louder than words.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 4, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Dat Kaz  From what i've heard Sony's gonna try and do a non embarrassing sell job this time, let's hope so



why, what did they do last time?


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 4, 2013)

Shion Do it.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 4, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> why, what did they do last time?



FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY-NINE US DOLLARS


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 4, 2013)

oh god, gaf is killing me 


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 4, 2013)

Lol at kaz  I will laugh hard if he said ridge race again when unveiling the ps4.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 4, 2013)

vgleaks on Durango GPU (3 pages long)



so, as a comparison Orbis has 1.4-1.8 TFLOPS, while Durango has 1.2
and Orbis has 32 ROPs while Durango 16

right?


----------



## dream (Feb 4, 2013)

> call me crazy, but isn't it just better to build a gaming rig stripped of all the unnecessary software crap which slows the computer down



Stripping all the unnecessary software won't really affect much.



> and just buy the games that will come out for the consoles and play them using emulators?



Emulation requires far more processing power than the processing power of the console that you are trying to emulate.  I don't even believe that PS3 or Xbox 360 emulators exist at this moment and a big reason for that is the amount of processing power that would be required.  As for emulating PS4 or Durango...lol.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Feb 4, 2013)

Short answer: a high end PC will always beat a console.  But frankly consoles aren't trying to compete with high end gaming rigs.

Slightly longer answer: the reason the hardware specs are as low end as they appear for consoles is because when they're designing games to a specific set of hardware they can get more power out of less (as opposed to PCs where they need to design the game to play on a wide variety of different hardware).


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 4, 2013)

lol they just keep on coming


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 4, 2013)

Personally, I don't like Kaz, he is a tool.. Ridge Racer was such a huge mistake.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 4, 2013)

*VGLeaks: Durango GPU detailed*



> The last week, we published a poll and you chose to know more about the GPU of Durango. Wishes come true. We have splitted the articled in three pages, don’t forget to read the whole work. [Note: There are two more pages with lots of details at the link.]
> 
> A better view of Durango’s GPU capabilities and performance.
> 
> Durango brings the enhanced capabilities of a modern Direct3D 11 GPU to the console space. *The Durango GPU is a departure from previous console generations both in raw performance and in structure.*





Wonder whats up with the disappointment that most users are sharing here. :/


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 4, 2013)

^ This isn't actually telling us anything we don't know. I'm guessing some people were thinking the 1.2 tflop GPU estimate was wrong, but i never doubted it.  They are probably trying to redo 2005-2006 again with the fanboy talk of which is stronger between Sony's console and Microsoft's console, but they are both pretty good.

Both consoles should be much stronger than current gen and blow our heads off with great graphics and technical wizardry  Nintendo will be current gen level but still put out impressive games based on their great devs and unique artstyles. Sounds good to me


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 4, 2013)

All for sub 1080p graphics performing @ 30FPS with additional dips. 

At least Current gen won't look like ass on widescreen TV since there's HD Nintendo games unlike the 6th gen.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 4, 2013)

Bascially. And i'm one of those folks who thinks that current gen games are still impressive looking. So putting Nintendo behind the wheel is gonna bring some miracles.

Thar said, i'm loathe to shit on Orbis and Durango's specs at all for sub 500$ price points.


----------



## dream (Feb 4, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Thar said, i'm loathe to shit on Orbis and Durango's specs at all for sub 500$ price points.



I feel the same way, Sony and Microsoft can only push the hardware so much before the consoles becomes too expensive.  While I would love for the consoles to be more powerful I'm still excited to see what these consoles will be capable of.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 4, 2013)

I feel that exact same way.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 5, 2013)

PS4 and 720 will be utter shit, Nintendo is the only company left that appeals to the hardcore gamer.


----------



## dream (Feb 5, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> PS4 and 720 will be utter shit, Nintendo is the only company left that appeals to the hardcore gamer.



Please, we all know that Valve is the only company that appeals to the hardcore gamer.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Feb 5, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> PS4 and 720 will be utter shit, Nintendo is the only company left that appeals to the hardcore gamer.



and butter is blue


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 5, 2013)

Goova said:


> and butter is blue


----------



## DedValve (Feb 5, 2013)

I can't believe it's....what is that?


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 5, 2013)

Solaris said:


> Please, we all know that Valve is the only company that appeals to the hardcore gamer.



I won't disagree that valve is number 1 when it come to hardcore gamer satisfaction but give Sony some credit as well. They did their fair share in providing hardcore titles and enjoyable new ips. And then there is Nintendo when they are not going full retard mode. 

Microsoft did well with the orgininal Xbox And the beginning of the 360 life cycle but went downhill after kinect.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 5, 2013)

Let's forget all about eye toy


----------



## DedValve (Feb 5, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Let's forget all about* wonderbook*



like it never happened


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 5, 2013)

Ick Wonderbook.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 5, 2013)

Well besides games I'd love for the PS4's browser if it has one to always have an updated flash program so that I can watch videos on more sites than just youtube. Especially ones streamed on facebook. I hate how incredibly limited the browser feature is on the PS3.


----------



## αce (Feb 5, 2013)

So is there a tl;dr of the last month or so...I can't really skim through this thread:sanji


----------



## dream (Feb 5, 2013)

♠Ace♠ said:


> So is there a tl;dr of the last month or so...I can't really skim through this thread:sanji



PS4 will be more powerful than the new Xbox but it won't be a big difference in power.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 5, 2013)

Wii U still being underrated after that X sneak peek


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 5, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> I won't disagree that valve is number 1 when it come to hardcore gamer satisfaction but give Sony some credit as well.* They did their fair share in providing hardcore titles and enjoyable new ips*. And then there is Nintendo when they are not going full retard mode.
> 
> Microsoft did well with the orgininal Xbox And the beginning of the 360 life cycle but went downhill after kinect.


 name those IP'S...


----------



## αce (Feb 5, 2013)

> PS4 will be more powerful than the new Xbox but it won't be a big difference in power.



Well figures. Is there any news on Xbox live changes? If I still have to pay for Xbox live I might just ditch microsoft even though I was loyal for so long. Paying 60 a year starts to suck when you rely less on your parents and have school fee's etc.

I might just pick up a Wii-U mainly for the classic titles that I love. And I still didn't play Skyward sword.


Also any news on prices? It's not like 800 dollars is it?


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 5, 2013)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Well figures. Is there any news on Xbox live changes? If I still have to pay for Xbox live I might just ditch microsoft even though I was loyal for so long. Paying 60 a year starts to suck when you rely less on your parents and have school fee's etc.
> 
> I might just pick up a Wii-U mainly for the classic titles that I love. And I still didn't play Skyward sword.
> 
> ...



It won't be cheaper then the already selling at a loss wii U that's for damn sure.
Get the deluxe.
Wish they made more deluxes than basics, it'll take a while for those to sell and for them to mainly give us deluxes when they restock.


----------



## dream (Feb 5, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Wii U still being underrated after that X sneak peek



Oh?  Are people claiming that it's only a bit more powerful than the Xbox 360/PS3? 



♠Ace♠ said:


> Is there any news on Xbox live changes? If I still have to pay for Xbox live I might just ditch microsoft even though I was loyal for so long. Paying 60 a year starts to suck when you rely less on your parents and have school fee's etc.
> 
> Also any news on prices? It's not like 800 dollars is it?



I can't see Microsoft ditching the subscription for Xbox Live.

No prices have been announced but I believe that we can expect $500 to be the absolute highest they will sell for.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 5, 2013)

Solaris said:


> Oh?  Are people claiming that it's only a bit more powerful than the Xbox 360/PS3?



Yeah...about that...

there are plenty of trolls out in full force on both sides of the equation unfortunately


----------



## dream (Feb 5, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Yeah...about that...
> 
> there are plenty of trolls out in full force on both sides of the equation unfortunately



The real fun will begin once PS4 and Durango are revealed, quality entertainment is ahead of us.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 5, 2013)

Indeed i can't wait  infact i think it will probably start on the 20th of this month infact


----------



## dream (Feb 5, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Indeed i can't wait  infact i think it will probably start on the 20th of this month infact



PS4 hype is going to amazing.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 5, 2013)

DATHYPE 

but yeah no, i expect games on both 720 and PS4 to wow and amaze. That's one reason why i'm not really concerned about the power deficit between the two consoles. Compared to what we've been getting for almost the last decade, going to something substantially more powerful is gonna make both of what these consoles put out virtually indistinguishable i think outside of maybe framerate and resolution, because everything will look so far beyond what we have been used to to start with.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 5, 2013)

Also, 



*RUH ROH*


----------



## dream (Feb 5, 2013)

Who is this Dan person?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 5, 2013)

SuperDaE is the leaker of a lot of previous information about the consoles  He was the one with the dev kit that Eurogamer confirmed as legit, and he also collaborates with VGleaks when they have information to corroborate his own sources.

He also posted THIS bombshell right after a response to someone who posted the specs we know right now


----------



## dream (Feb 5, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> SuperDaE is the leaker of a lot of previous information about the consoles  He was the one with the dev kit that Eurogamer confirmed as legit, and he also collaborates with VGleaks when they have information to corroborate his own sources.
> 
> He also posted THIS bombshell right after a response to someone who posted the specs we know right now



The future is looking bright.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 5, 2013)

The end of this year can't get here fast enough


----------



## DedValve (Feb 5, 2013)

I really want to invest in Sony again. I really, really do, the playstation brand used to be so strong and while the PS3 managed to eventually land on it's feet the vita tanked hard and at the current rate Microsoft is going (almost as greedy as EA) I'm looking to jump ship, unless Microsoft really improves this gen. 

Free live (especially if sony keeps it) with no paywall and keep xbox live gold but make it so that EVERY online game has dedicated servers, because paying extra for peer 2 peer is by far the most retarded shit ever. Even Gears of war 3 uses P2P (dedicated is only on ranked matches and that's only half the times). 

So Sony, feb 20th the ball is in your court, step up yo game.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 5, 2013)

I don't have an issue paying for Live, so i guess i'll be fine


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 5, 2013)

The future is coming.

The Wonderstation.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 5, 2013)

Let's hope there are no ridge racer and giant enemy crab scenarios


----------



## αce (Feb 5, 2013)

Whatever I will probably stick to Xbox. They will have gamertag crossover functions right? Hopefully.


----------



## dream (Feb 5, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Let's hope there are no ridge racer and giant enemy crab scenarios



I want Ridge Racer.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 5, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Let's hope there are no ridge racer and giant enemy crab scenarios



And miss the hilarity?

Nah, gimme unintentional comedy full throttle.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 5, 2013)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Whatever I will probably stick to Xbox. They will have gamertag crossover functions right? Hopefully.



Don't see why not...


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 5, 2013)

Solaris said:


> I want Ridge Racer.


[YOUTUBE]t3UwyXdM3P4[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## PoinT_BlanK (Feb 6, 2013)

Playstation over on this side.

might buy the xbox later down the road tho.


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 6, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Let's forget all about eye toy



Not sure what the eye toy,move,or wonderbook has anything to do with what I said? 



Malvingt2 said:


> name those IP'S...



Uncharted,infamous,little big planet,heavy rain,heavenly sword(I want 2!!),valkirya chronicles(I liked only the first one),demon souls..

And more are coming  

The last of us and puppeteer are beginning to look very promising.

And this is not counting what the ps1 and ps2 had


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 6, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Yeah...about that...
> 
> there are plenty of trolls out in full force on both sides of the equation unfortunately



Durango will be the PS2 degradation of cross multiplats! lolM$

PS4 will tank ala-PS3 launch once again because of how expensive it will be! lol$ony

Wii U is substantially weaker than 6 year old hardware confirmed! lolNintendo

Am i doing it right?


----------



## God Movement (Feb 6, 2013)

how popular is wii u in america?

it's pretty irrelevant here in the uk


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 6, 2013)

There are a lot of things that i'd tolerate, a lot of bullshit that i'd swallow. But i have always said, that the second any of these manufacturers pull crazy insane DRM shit, they make my decisions suddenly extremely easy to make on principle. 

If this rumor(and i'm treating it as a rumor until we hear directly from them about their new console) is true, Microsoft has already faded away to non existence for me.

Sony as well if they try it. I might even have to jump into PC gaming for the first time, atleast the steam prices are affordable when on sale.


----------



## Corruption (Feb 6, 2013)

I wouldn't think Microsoft would be that stupid. If that's true, I'm out too since I use gamefly.


----------



## Vault (Feb 6, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> There are a lot of things that i'd tolerate, a lot of bullshit that i'd swallow. But i have always said, that the second any of these manufacturers pull crazy insane DRM shit, they make my decisions suddenly extremely easy to make on principle.
> 
> If this rumor(and i'm treating it as a rumor until we hear directly from them about their new console) is true, Microsoft has already faded away to non existence for me.
> 
> Sony as well if they try it. I might even have to jump into PC gaming for the first time, atleast the steam prices are affordable when on sale.



Microsoft can not be that stupid right?


----------



## Wonder Mike (Feb 6, 2013)

Isn't Sony doing the same, if the rumors prove to be right?


----------



## Vault (Feb 6, 2013)

Need internet to function?

The 2nd hand BS won't catch on, way too retarded.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 6, 2013)

You'd be surprised how easily it could catch on. The fact of the matter is that developers think the used game market is just as bad as piracy, except the retailers selling the used games make 100% profit and the devs get nothing. The devs lose a sale and lose money by that customer buying a used game instead of a new copy. 



Inuhanyou said:


> There are a lot of things that i'd tolerate, a lot of bullshit that i'd swallow. But i have always said, that the second any of these manufacturers pull crazy insane DRM shit, they make my decisions suddenly extremely easy to make on principle.
> 
> If this rumor(and i'm treating it as a rumor until we hear directly from them about their new console) is true, Microsoft has already faded away to non existence for me.
> 
> Sony as well if they try it. I might even have to jump into PC gaming for the first time, atleast the steam prices are affordable when on sale.



Just saw this as well.

Don't worry, Inu, Steambox will be here to save the day. 

If Sony and Microsoft pull this crap I'll be content with ignoring them until they fix it, if ever. I only bought my PS3 two years ago, I could play it for years with the kind of library it has. And I still have my gaming PC for all the worthwhile multiplats.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 6, 2013)

I see that people already posted the link here so I'm gonna join the boat and state that I'm gonna pass the fuck out of the Xbox if they ever pull this shit off. Without even fucking flinching.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 6, 2013)

As much as it pains me to do so, I'll skip Sony too if they do this. I don't care about skipping Xbox; I've already skipped it the past two times.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Feb 6, 2013)

I don't buy that the consoles themselves will mandate no resale.  Make it easier for game producing companies to engineer features like that?  Sure, but then that's the way the world's going anyway.

But the console doing it just attracts bad PR for no gain.


----------



## Krory (Feb 6, 2013)

Won't happen.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 6, 2013)

*looks at possible EDGE rumor*

What the fuck is this horse shit??? If this is legit then MS and the Xbox brand are beyond dead to me for an entire generation once again, Sony as well if they try to follow the suit as well. Nintendo/PC will stay firm with me for the 8th gen until this regurgitated abomination is either removed from business decision or likely false along the line. 

Awful awful rumor.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 6, 2013)

I guess Edge needs them clicks. Can't see this happening, but IF MS does decide to go with this, then it's because Sony does too. They'd be insane to do this alone.

edit: thread needs some Kaz again 


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## dream (Feb 6, 2013)

I don't see Microsoft requiring an online connection for a console to function or at least I don't see them requiring that in this upcoming generation.  One or two generations down the line?  Sure.

I probably wouldn't mind the internet connection requirement.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 6, 2013)

You mean...one or two generations down the road you would not mind it  Not today when internet connections are so fickle

Atleast we know that Jack Tretton really would disagree with blocking used game sales, someone at Sony is on our side even if we don't know that Sony won't do this as well


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 6, 2013)

But how much say does Tretton have in this? He did mention that the Japanese bosses would prefer a solution like this.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 6, 2013)

He said that they 'might', and then he didn't know  

Of course i was only posting him as an example of someone at sony having an opinion on the matter as opposed to Microsoft who would not say anything either way


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 6, 2013)

Solaris said:


> I don't see Microsoft requiring an online connection for a console to function or at least I don't see them requiring that in this upcoming generation.  One or two generations down the line?  Sure.
> 
> I probably wouldn't mind the internet connection requirement.



Doom 3 that is all


----------



## dream (Feb 6, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> You mean...one or two generations down the road you would not mind it  Not today when internet connections are so fickle



I wouldn't mind it this generation, my internet connection is extremely solid.  Only once has it stopped working in the past two years and that wasn't for long.  I personally wouldn't have a problem with it but I'm fully aware that others would have problems and that quite a few gamers don't even have broadband access in their homes.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 6, 2013)

Solaris said:


> I wouldn't mind it this generation, my internet connection is extremely solid.  Only once has it stopped working in the past two years and that wasn't for long.  I personally wouldn't have a problem with it but I'm fully aware that others would have problems and that quite a few gamers don't even have broadband access in their homes.



Mainly because companies are not progressing properly, should have most of the USA covered by now.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 6, 2013)

well, another Edge article, what it would mean for PS4 assuming they don't go this route





> Microsoft has made the move that publishers and developers have been asking for



is 2nd hand business really that bad for them?

also, I don't think comparing this to Steam is a good idea. For once, you can buy games for Steam on sites like GMG, Amazon or Gamersgate (with heavy discounts if you want), while with xbox I assume it'd be only one source, and I doubt there would sales with the same low pricings like the sales these sites usually have.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 6, 2013)

they cry about it, but i think it has more to do with pricing of new games than anything the used market does. 

That and, you can resell used games to buy new games. Less used games = less new games.

Nobody is going to be paying 60 bucks a pop every time they want to buy something, it would be a complete crash


----------



## strongarm85 (Feb 6, 2013)

All the more reason why Big Picture and Steambox  make an appealing alternative.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 6, 2013)

Provided the rumors come to fruition of course


----------



## Aruarian (Feb 6, 2013)

Solaris said:


> I wouldn't mind it this generation, my internet connection is extremely solid.  Only once has it stopped working in the past two years and that wasn't for long.  I personally wouldn't have a problem with it but I'm fully aware that others would have problems and that quite a few gamers don't even have broadband access in their homes.



You're not factoring in that the real issue is the _MicroSoft_ servers. If they go down, which is inevitable, you'll be unable to play games, even if your internet is working.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 6, 2013)

Reading that first article again, there's a part, which seems to be close to what Tim Lottes was speculating based on rumors about in his blogspot a couple of weeks ago (which he had to take down, because people were accusing him for a Sony fanboy lol). Not that this proves anything, but interesting.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Feb 6, 2013)

Another disadvantage to the always-online that no one mentions:

They will be able to remotely disable your machine at any time for any reason.  Your new $400-$600 console is now a paperweight because you used naughty language in Modern Halo 7, the Search for Spock.  Or because someone else did and they accidentally clicked the wrong button.  Or because the noob you've been pwning all afternoon got pissed off at you and filed a false report.

Or worse because they accidentally left exploitable code in the machine and some hacker decided to nuke every system they could find.  Don't worry they'll fix it in the next patch and they'll reactivate your account just as soon as they can, no more than 4-6 weeks.


----------



## dream (Feb 6, 2013)

Hangat?r said:


> You're not factoring in that the real issue is the _MicroSoft_ servers. If they go down, which is inevitable, you'll be unable to play games, even if your internet is working.



I did take that into account, similar things have happened to me with Steam and I still remember when Playstation Network went down.  I can go without playing videogames for a while if severs go down.


----------



## lathia (Feb 6, 2013)

These games better be heavily subsidized or go down in prize after a few weeks of release. Don't know what to think of it, and I've never tried Steam. I do hear they have some great deals here and there though. Maybe it's not as bad as we think, and if it pushes more games out then I'm all for it.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 6, 2013)

The thing is that game prices are probably going up considering game developers only say that development costs are only gonna rise.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 6, 2013)

maybe they should stop targeting blockbuster hollywood movie budgets :ho



Solaris said:


> I did take that into account, similar things have happened to me with Steam and I still remember when Playstation Network went down.  I can go without playing videogames for a while if severs go down.



doesn't Steam have an offline mode though? I mean I never tried using it or had to, because my net is usually stable, but it should work.



lathia said:


> These games better be heavily subsidized or go down in prize after a few weeks of release. Don't know what to think of it, and I've never tried Steam. I do hear they have some great deals here and there though. Maybe it's not as bad as we think, and if it pushes more games out then I'm all for it.



The thing is I doubt Xbox would have the same deals as Steam. Valve are a private company, it's basically their call when the sales take place and they suggest discounts which devs and publishers can agree to. If you don't like the deals, you can go over to GMG, Amazon or Gamersgate, they constantly have deals, and for the last months, have been outdoing Steam. And we're talking about 50 to 75% discounts, with these other sites having potential coupons, credits, cashbacks layered on these deals. I mean Dark Souls was like 11$ on amazon at new year, Sleeping Dogs was 10€ with a 4€ cashback/2$ credit option on GMG, and Steam had Max Payne 3 75% off this xmas for ex (and there was a mistake 91% discount on Sleeping Dogs too ) and this goes on and on...


----------



## Vault (Feb 6, 2013)

Solaris said:


> I did take that into account, similar things have happened to me with Steam and I still remember when Playstation Network went down.  I can go without playing videogames for a while if severs go down.



Thats you not the rest of the consumers. I should be able to play a game whenever i want, it is not up to Sony or Microsoft to dictate that.


----------



## dream (Feb 6, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> doesn't Steam have an offline mode though? I mean I never tried using it or had to, because my net is usually stable, but it should work.



It does have an offline mode although you need to be in the online mode to go offline so if Steam's servers go down you can't use the offline mode.



> Thats you not the rest of the consumers. I should be able to play a game whenever i want, it is not up to Sony or Microsoft to dictate that.



I'm aware of that, not once have I said that it would be a good thing.


----------



## Vault (Feb 6, 2013)

But you seem to welcome it saying you will just stop playing the console.  Cant you see there is something awfully wrong about saying that?


----------



## dream (Feb 6, 2013)

Vault said:


> But you seem to welcome it saying you will just stop playing the console.  Cant you see there is something awfully wrong about saying that?



I don't know about welcoming the situation but I would calmly accept it.  Steam is somewhat similar enough and I've had little complaints about it so I likely won't be too upset.  

Well, if I stop playing videogames for a while I'll have more time to get my school work done which is a good thing.


----------



## KidTony (Feb 6, 2013)

If Sony and Microsoft go this way, this will divide games into two categories. Triple A, extemely high production games, and cheap indie games. No middle of the road. No one is going spend millions and millions in development to have a game that only does "alright", with consumers worried they just wasted $60 with no chance to make some money back by reselling. They will either make small budget, cheap games, or invest in market proven franchises like COD that are guaranteed to make a big profit. You might even see less and less New big budget IPs.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 6, 2013)

well, SuperDae tweeted the article is fake

edit: but another guy with insider connections said that SuperDae is bs 

oh whatever


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 6, 2013)

So, Bungie said they'll be unveiling Destiny within a matter of weeks. Assuming it's going to be a nextbox exclusive, does this mean MS is announcing too around the time Sony will?

edit: oh wait a minute it's supposed to be a cross-gen title?


----------



## strongarm85 (Feb 6, 2013)

Yep, Bungie is an independent Studio again.


----------



## dream (Feb 6, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> So, Bungie said they'll be unveiling Destiny within a matter of weeks. Assuming it's going to be a nextbox exclusive, does this mean MS is announcing too around the time Sony will?
> 
> edit: oh wait a minute it's supposed to be a cross-gen title?



Excellent, I've been looking forward to seeing more about this game.  Hoping for a decent length trailer.


----------



## Bungee Gum (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm pretty confident at this point, the consistency of these xbox rumors, that the nextbox will in fact lock out used games, and potentially be online always.

My hope is Sony does not follow suit, and I do not think they will. If they do, Nintendo should win this generation, just by not screwing over their consumer base like the other two.


----------



## God Hand (Feb 6, 2013)

Goova said:


> I'm pretty confident at this point, the consistency of these xbox rumors, that the nextbox will in fact lock out used games, and potentially be online always.
> 
> My hope is Sony does not follow suit, and I do not think they will. If they do, Nintendo should win this generation, just by not screwing over their consumer base like the other two.



I could easily see Sony following suit, because all the crying about the used game market wasn't spawned and circulated by Microsoft alone.  With rumors of Sony eying a lock, I would assume they would follow suit.

I'm preparing for the worst anyway, I am learning to use this stupid mouse and keyboard for something other then porn


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 6, 2013)

We'll see what happens, hopefully we'll find out more about Sony's plans on the 20th


----------



## kazuri (Feb 6, 2013)

I bet theres only 1 or 2 more generations of consoles before its just too gimmicky and cant keep up with the exponential growth of computers. The first company to ditch the hardware and put all that effort into developers tools is going to pull ahead.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Feb 6, 2013)

fuck that if i can't play used games, fuck all the consoles!!


----------



## Kurokami Medaka (Feb 6, 2013)




----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 6, 2013)

over $428?? Malvingt2 will not buy.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 6, 2013)

Well, it's *somewhat* cheaper than the PS3 launch price.

Which isn't saying much.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 6, 2013)

Japan usually gets higher exchange rates for consumer electronics. So that would be around 399$ launch for the US(not sure what SKU).

I'd get that on day one provided no bullshit is in place


----------



## Gunners (Feb 6, 2013)

So the price will be about ?300 in the UK. I think I will chill with my PS3 for a couple of years at least until games I want come out.


----------



## Id (Feb 6, 2013)

PS3 Elite Fatboy was $600 at launch


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 6, 2013)

And Sony won't do something so stupid again.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 6, 2013)

Hm, I wonder what the prices in the rest of the world will be...


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 6, 2013)

So a number of 'journalist' websites are already coming out and defending the anti consumer practices. "Its just like Steam, what's the big deal? Don't be so entitled".


Maybe if Steam only sold games for their retail price 5 years after launch they would be in a very different position right about now in regards to the PC landscape 

Sony and Microsoft have no such allusions, they make their money directly on software sales. So how exactly does fucking over the consumer even get defended? Pure unadulterated corruption. Publishers colluding with the media as usual.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 6, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> So a number of 'journalist' websites are already coming out and defending the anti consumer practices. "Its just like Steam, what's the big deal? Don't be so entitled".
> 
> 
> Maybe if Steam only sold games for their retail price 5 years after launch they would be in a very different position right about now in regards to the PC landscape
> ...


Kick those fuckers in the balls.
Just like DmC.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 6, 2013)

I am worried about the anti used game policy, it is really bullshit. I hope Nintendo is against that. If Sony and M$ are on board I am not buying their systems.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 6, 2013)

Malvingt2 said:


> I am worried about the anti used game policy, it is really bullshit. I hope Nintendo is against that. If Sony and M$ are on board I am not buying their systems.



Well the wii U can play used games. I would assume they are hopefully.
They would get more people buying their stuff that way if they are?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 6, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Well the wii U can play used games. I would assume they are hopefully.
> They would get more people buying their stuff that way if they are?



correct but it is a shame where we are heading. It is going to screw us gamers. I am going to buy fewer games or just focus on the Wii U. The problem is that big third party companies are going to have one more reason to ignore the Wii U because it does't support such policy.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 6, 2013)

Malvingt2 said:


> correct but it is a shame where we are heading. It is going to screw us gamers. I am going to buy fewer games or just focus on the Wii U. The problem is that big third party companies are going to have one more reason to ignore the Wii U because it does't support such policy.



Hopefully people will have common sense and give them no choice.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 6, 2013)

Nintendo already stated that they were against the anti used game policy so they are in the clear for next gen in regards to such BS. But if major third parties are actively seeing this as a good idea then fuck them too, since i'll probably not touch their products unless they are handheld/PC release. And it *PAINS* me to even think of the industry going forward to such anti consumer policies. 

I want to believe Sony won't do the same thing, but with how they are reliant with third party support and keeping up with industry standards......


----------



## Magic (Feb 6, 2013)

Malvingt2 said:


> over $428?? Malvingt2 will not buy.


Take out a loan.


----------



## DedValve (Feb 6, 2013)

Given the Sony rumors of Orbis having the exact same thing it seems clear that Sony isn't entirely all in the dark with the durangos development or vice versa with Microsoft and the Orbis. There is absolutely no way that one of these companies will have these extreme anti-consumer methods placed unless the other also agreed to do it, and since both rumors said that this was pressured by third party developers/publishers then it seems even more likely that both Orbis and Durango will have such bullshittery. 

My hype for these consoles...well actually I never really had much hype for these consoles, not since the steambox and all. I'm going to go either WiiU/PC or Wiiu/Steambox depending.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 6, 2013)

DedValve said:


> Given the Sony rumors of Orbis having the exact same thing it seems clear that Sony isn't entirely all in the dark with the durangos development or vice versa with Microsoft and the Orbis. There is absolutely no way that one of these companies will have these extreme anti-consumer methods placed unless the other also agreed to do it, and since both rumors said that this was pressured by third party developers/publishers then it seems even more likely that both Orbis and Durango will have such bullshittery.
> 
> My hype for these consoles...well actually I never really had much hype for these consoles, not since the steambox and all. I'm going to go either WiiU/PC or Wiiu/Steambox depending.



That's the way to go


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 6, 2013)

DedValve said:


> Given the Sony rumors of Orbis having the exact same thing it seems clear that Sony isn't entirely all in the dark with the durangos development or vice versa with Microsoft and the Orbis. There is absolutely no way that one of these companies will have these extreme anti-consumer methods placed unless the other also agreed to do it, *and since both rumors said that this was pressured by third party developers/publishers then it seems even more likely that both Orbis and Durango will have such bullshittery*.
> 
> My hype for these consoles...well actually I never really had much hype for these consoles, not since the steambox and all. I'm going to go either WiiU/PC or Wiiu/Steambox depending.



Which makes it even worse since, like i said above, Sony needs third party support and relies on them by a good margin despite making awesome exclusives from current gen standards. I understand how Nintendo can make idiotic non-consumer friendly decisions, but good lord from what the rumor is dictating, that's a whole new level of utter DOA incompetence. 

Don't do it Sony, please don't.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 6, 2013)

We'll see what Sony does. They've had patents to block used games since before pS3 game out, and people were screaming about it then. but it never came to pass. They could just decide not to. I think the money third parties would loose from skipping out on a platform would be much more damaging to them than blackmailing that company with threats of not providing that platform with the games.

Look at steam, doing pretty fine even without EA's games.


----------



## dream (Feb 6, 2013)

Being over $400 will be perfectly acceptable for me.


----------



## "Shion" (Feb 6, 2013)

Id said:


> PS3 Elite Fatboy was $600 at launch



Them dumbass mods let me back up in this bitch, cuz. 

Time to unleash hell. 

@Topic

Wii U 4 life, fuckers.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 6, 2013)

So Shion, you planning to get the Nextbox 720 anytime soon? Or PS4 instead??


----------



## "Shion" (Feb 6, 2013)

Yeah.

Both.

So I can break them and shove the pieces up my ass, then proceed to shit them out.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 7, 2013)

this is all dependent on the gamers themselves.. look at how DmC failed because gamers knew not to take such insulting bullshit from capcom and NT.. same thing with these rumors.. voices needs to be heard, and more importantly we need to talk with our wallets and media..


here's a start..


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 7, 2013)

It's fucking ridiculous. I was planning on getting the Nextbox but if this happens, I'll probably get a WiiU only. Maybe a PS4 if the exclusives interest me. And most of them don't.


----------



## James Bond (Feb 7, 2013)

Just rumours but like that guy in video said, could be true which would be a huge pain in the ass.


----------



## Reyes (Feb 7, 2013)

I guess we will wait till the 20th to see.

Personally I really don't think Sony will do this DRM crap with used game, I don't think there in the postion(money wise) to make such a decsion that could really keep people from buying there console.

I agree Sony makes bad decsions but that's usally pricing and marketing but have they really done anything to this level of bad before.

Let's all remenber this is a rumor....for now


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 7, 2013)

The problem is that the rumor is coming from both end "Sony & M$" and with publishers showing the desired to kill used game, I would not be shocked if it is true.


----------



## Reyes (Feb 7, 2013)

Malvingt2 said:


> The problem is that the rumor is coming from both end "Sony & M$" and with publishers showing the desired to kill used game, I would not be shocked if it is true.



Again lets wait and see, then we can bitch(rant) all we want.


----------



## "Shion" (Feb 7, 2013)

Bitch fits better..


----------



## Reyes (Feb 7, 2013)

"Shion" said:


> Bitch fits better..



It does but I put in rant since I've been on forums were I used bitch in the same way and I got attack for it.


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 7, 2013)

If the ps4 will cost about 430$ in Japan then it might cost 399$ in the US. That's a sweet spot,they just have to release killer apps early on the consoles life cycle and keep the momentum and sony might casually dominate this generation. 

It seems that Microsoft is limiting what 3rd party developers can get out of nextbox. If the rumers about constant Internet connection is true,then the guys at microsoft are likely shooting Themselves in the foot.


----------



## Shirker (Feb 7, 2013)

Jaime Reyes said:


> It does but I put in rant since I've been on forums were I used bitch in the same way and I got attack for it.



Bitches are the only ones that tend to get upset when you tell them how much they bitch.

Anyone that truly sticks by their point won't get upset over something as silly as a term with an implied negetive connotation. So yeah, use "bitch".


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 7, 2013)

*GameStop: next-gen console sales will be “diminished” if used games are restricted*



> GameStop has said consumers’ “desire to purchase” consoles will be “significantly diminished” if manufacturer were to block the ability to play used games.
> 
> Speaking with Bloomberg, the chain’s VP of public and investor relations, Matt Hodges, said sales of new tech would also be diminished should the machines “limit portability, or not play new physical games,” we assume he is referring to the “cloud-only” rumors for next-gen with part of his statement.





 



clearly if that would be my reaction. lol


----------



## Shirker (Feb 7, 2013)

Eugh... something about a Gamestop representative making such an agreeable statement makes me feel dirty.

I mean, I guess his words are less concern for the gaming industry and more for Gamestop's fiscal interests, but still....


----------



## dream (Feb 7, 2013)

Gamestop's rep is pretty correct though the question is how just how diminished they will be, if it isn't by much then I think that Microsoft and Sony wouldn't mind going ahead with such a plan.


----------



## Styles (Feb 7, 2013)

I never buy used games anyway, but the fact that we can no longer borrow games from friends sucks =/


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 7, 2013)

They are correct. The industry would contract violently, as they push a billion dollars a year into the new games industry because of their "trade games to buy new games" policy. Furthermore, gamestop is actually 40% of the retail games market in the US. Take them out of the equation, and its video game crash like 1983 

Digital may be the future and growing every year, but that's like telling your 2 year old child to pay the taxes and get a job. Its not even remotely close to holding up what needs to be held up at this point in time.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 7, 2013)

That would suck hard if Next gen became another video game crash, oh the horror.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 7, 2013)

Its even worse because people act like its JUST gamestop that would feel the pain of no used game policies. What about EBAY? What about Amazon? (Where i usually do my game shopping for out of print games), what about renting services such as gamefly and other retailers?

All that money goes down the drain as well. Your looking at an apocalypse in the making. For the video games market anyway


----------



## God Hand (Feb 8, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> All that money goes down the drain as well. Your looking at an* apocalypse* in the making. For the video games market anyway






*Puny used game market, I will crush you!*


----------



## Sinoka (Feb 8, 2013)

​


> As Sony Computer Entertainment warms up its blue lighting and double-checks its playlist for February 20th, one unnamed SCE official says that the PlayStation 4 will act as more of a home entertainment hub than what we've seen in the past. They added, according to the Nikkei, that the main selling point won't be the rumored eight-core AMD64 CPU or other hardware specs, but how it opens up new styles of play -- something Nintendo is also focusing on. Sony is going to push the new console as a home entertainment "nerve center," with a focus on the hardware's ability to connect and share to mobile devices -- the rival that's pulling gamers awayfrom traditional consoles. No discussion on any Gakai-powered cloud gaming just yet, but following its unveiling later this month, the report states that the new PlayStation should launch before the end of the year. A bit of a shame, then, that it's still only February.


----------



## valerian (Feb 8, 2013)

That PlayStation meeting thread on Gaf...


----------



## DedValve (Feb 8, 2013)

How to succesfully get rid of used game market

New games should cost $50
Steam like sales
No anti-consumer DRM, we are buying the game new
No micro-transactions
Full game upon release, no talk of DLC before production or worse, developing dlc before production


How it will actually be handled
Always online
lolxbawxsales
$60-70 games
Games will be released barebones with DLC that was in development since the start of the game being released shortly after or as on disc DLC (capcom is now doing the former which is pretty much the same shit except now we have to wait to get screwed over)
Micro-transactions up the ass
Free to play format without the free.


WiiU/Steam for me it is then.


----------



## Id (Feb 8, 2013)

Fuck $ony and M$. 

WiiU/Steam for me it is then.


----------



## dream (Feb 8, 2013)

RX-Domo-kun said:


> ​



Fuck you unnamed Sony official, the current styles of playing games are all that we need.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Feb 8, 2013)

Solaris said:


> Fuck you unnamed Sony official, the current styles of playing games are all that we need.


Hey, piss off.  I want my direct neural interface.

Come on Sony, skip the "your body is the controller" and go straight to "your mind is the controller."


----------



## dream (Feb 8, 2013)

EvilMoogle said:


> Hey, piss off.  I want my direct neural interface.
> 
> Come on Sony, skip the "your body is the controller" and go straight to "your mind is the controller."



No U.

[YOUTUBE]Vdh4TqWFfX4[/YOUTUBE]

Don't ever want us having such a future as it looks downright terrible.


----------



## Thdyingbreed (Feb 8, 2013)

If Microsoft actually implents this anti used games policy then thats it this company can go fuck themselves I've put up with enough of there bull shit.

All switch over to Sony who isn't as blatantly fucking greedy as microsoft is and doesn't pull this type of crap on there customers.

But given this is Microsoft there more then likely just going to go to ahead with this bull shit anyways.


----------



## strongarm85 (Feb 8, 2013)

There is a chance they could both follow suit. Wait and see.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 8, 2013)

heh..........


----------



## MCTDread (Feb 9, 2013)

I wonder how Gamestop and GameFly will react to this....


----------



## dream (Feb 9, 2013)

MCTDread said:


> I wonder how Gamestop and GameFly will react to this....



Gamestop already replied to these rumors:



> ?We know the desire to purchase a next-generation console would be significantly diminished if new consoles were to prohibit playing pre-owned games, limit portability or not play new physical games.?


----------



## Sinoka (Feb 9, 2013)

*​*​


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 9, 2013)

guys at neogaf are going crazy


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 9, 2013)

Well let's see how deep Ps3 and 360 loyalty goes.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 9, 2013)

"loyalty", huh?

Ain't that overdramatic as fuck.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 9, 2013)

Deathbringerpt said:


> "loyalty", huh?
> 
> Ain't that overdramatic as fuck.



Despite the shit Sony has done people still flock to the console.  That is loyalty.

Nintendo is guilty of it too at times.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 9, 2013)

Deathbringerpt said:


> "loyalty", huh?
> 
> Ain't that overdramatic as fuck.



Indeed that it is. 

We've seen through the PS Vita, the Wii U, and now currently the Durango (maybe) due to the rumors. I _almost_ expect the same thing to happen to the Orbis in regards to possible meltdowns once all is said in done.

No console is ever safe from dramatic backlash among fanboys and trolls alike.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 9, 2013)

I think its more accurate to say, no console launch has ever gone completely smooth sailing


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 9, 2013)

Weren't the PS2/Wii an exception?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 9, 2013)

PS2 is the greatest console of all time, that would be expected of it  But no, it had that "disc read error fiasco", and the original units were prone to failure(japan got the brunt of that one fortunately). As well as the normal drought that goes along with launches as people are struggling to fill time with games for new platforms. I can remember a lot of people talking about the PS2 only being good as a dvd player(although i think a lot of those people were just dreamcast fanboys mad about Sega's issues at the time), but as time went on that went away  Wii wasn't an exception to the drought fiasco either, and we did have the "people are throwing their wiimotes into the tv accidentally" thing


----------



## Hatifnatten (Feb 9, 2013)

So what has happened?


----------



## DedValve (Feb 9, 2013)

Every console launch sucks, but if this online bullshit is true then these consoles are going to get some serious backlash, that is unless Microshit and Sony wisen up and make some amazing sales. Sony seems more likely to do this with PS+ and all. 

Also if Xbox live still costs money, I'm jumping ship, not that sony looks all that appealing anyways...fuck the next gen, wheres Garry and his new steambox?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 9, 2013)

I only care if PS4 and 720 implement these awful sounding DRM issues. If they don't, IDGAF about anything else really  

That kind of overreaching DRM is basically the line that needs to be crossed for a lot of people. If the line isn't crossed, its not a big deal 


also,


You have your percentages fucked up in your sig there Hat


----------



## Hatifnatten (Feb 9, 2013)

DedValve said:


> Every console launch sucks, but if this online bullshit is true then these consoles are going to get some serious backlash, that is unless Microshit and Sony wisen up and make some amazing sales. Sony seems more likely to do this with PS+ and all.
> 
> Also if Xbox live still costs money, I'm jumping ship, not that sony looks all that appealing anyways...fuck the next gen, wheres Garry and his new steambox?


There's always Ouya


----------



## EJ (Feb 9, 2013)

Canute87 said:


> Well let's see how deep Ps3 and 360 loyalty goes.



pssssh, the only people I have loyalty to is the guys that I grew up playing XBOX live with. And they don't even play games like that anymore, and neither do I.

We were speaking of becoming PC gamers though, and giving Day Z a try.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 9, 2013)

RX-Domo-kun said:


> *​*​



Move2?


----------



## EvilMoogle (Feb 9, 2013)

No it's part of the PS4's anti-piracy plans.  They film you while you play to ensure only the owner of the game is actually the one playing of it.

Multiplayer games will come with a limited number of "guest" licenses and most games will have "2nd player" licenses available for a reduced cost (typically $30).

(Joking, or am I?  )


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 9, 2013)

but what if i want to fap to Mai or Bayonetta or something? 

would that cost me extra?


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 9, 2013)

Khris said:


> Move2?



Move U.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Feb 9, 2013)

I can't wait for the ps4. It's going to be beautiful.


----------



## Krory (Feb 9, 2013)

*Next-Gen Games Might Not Look Much Different From Crysis 3*

...says one of the most full-of-shit people in the industry (Crytek CEO Cevat Yerli) since whoever at Ubisoft thought an "exclusive demo" would make up for cheating the Wii U Rayman Legends crowd out of their game and making them wait seven more months.



> Speaking to us last week about the calibre of his studio's upcoming shooter, Yerli said: "I don't think Crytek can do more on current generation consoles than Crysis 3.
> 
> "I actually think people will be astonished that next gen launch titles from other companies might not be much different from Crysis 3."
> 
> ...


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 9, 2013)

*DF: Spec analysis: Durango vs. Orbis*



> There's an argument that suggests that comparing Durango and Orbis on these terms is not realistic; that the platform holders have far more control over the design of the silicon than the raw specs suggest; that they can be adapted with manufacturer-specific 'secret sauce' customisations.
> 
> The raw teraflop measurements being mooted - 1.23TF for Durango and 1.84TF for Orbis - have been dismissed as meaningless, and to a certain extent that is true. However, check out AMD's specs page for all of its various GCN hardware and you'll find similar metrics based a very easy formula derived from clock speed and CU count. It's not the be-all-and-end-all of processing power of course, but these are accurate measurements used by AMD itself in giving a broad assessment of the raw computational power of the parts it creates. You'll find that the next-gen console parts slot in quite nicely with their PC equivalents - in short, the teraflop metrics aren't much use in isolation but they are effective for comparison purposes in terms of base hardware capabilities.





> Secret Sauce
> most of the custom hardware works to ease the CPU burden, not to improve GPU performance, so those hoping for 'secret sauce' to overcome Orbis's theoretical graphics advantages are probably going to be disappointed.





> eSRAM and memory bandwidth
> So what does this mean for game devs in real terms? Well, whichever way Microsoft tries to finesse it, the 32MB of ESRAM is a bit of a sticking plaster solution that is nowhere near as fast or efficient as the single unified pool of RAM available to Orbis. However, while the disadvantages are obvious, this is not to say that the situation is anything like a complete disaster for Durango development. Speaking to game makers, the impression we come away with is that not every feature in a game actually requires ultra-fast memory. Systems will be developed on the DDR3, and if memory throughput becomes an issue, those features will be ported over to the ESRAM where there's enough bandwidth to provide the raw performance if needed.
> 
> Also mitigating the difference to a certain extent is the fact that Durango operates under an enhanced version of DirectX 11 - dubbed internally DirectX 11.x. It's highly likely that crucial rendering functions will automatically be optimised by Microsoft for use with the ESRAM.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 9, 2013)

Krory said:


> *Next-Gen Games Might Not Look Much Different From Crysis 3*
> 
> ...says one of the most full-of-shit people in the industry (Crytek CEO Cevat Yerli) since whoever at Ubisoft thought an "exclusive demo" would make up for cheating the Wii U Rayman Legends crowd out of their game and making them wait seven more months.



could this be some sort of wacky damage control/suck-up to wiiu fans or people that would have bought a wiiu? 

shit me, this might be the most entertaining console wars yet


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 9, 2013)

That article has nothing to do with the Wii U though, lolz. 

Console wars are so astounding when it comes to meltdowns and ignorance clouding judgement upon many loyalists of XYZ companies. E3 2012 should provide me another year of that during Summer.


----------



## Krory (Feb 9, 2013)

Only if you watch it on GameTrailers.

No one else really cares about E3 outside of laughs.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 9, 2013)

But...back was then....

E3 IZ SUPPOZE 2 BE DAH *FUTUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DedValve (Feb 9, 2013)

Khris said:


> but what if i want to fap to Mai or Bayonetta or something?
> 
> would that cost me extra?



you can pay by the hour, monthly or yearly. Their plans are surprisingly flexible.


----------



## DedValve (Feb 9, 2013)

So can anyone tell me in DBZ levels how strong the Wiiu/durango/orbis are?


----------



## Krory (Feb 9, 2013)

Wii U is Chaozu, Orbis is Yamcha, Durango is Tien.

Steambox will be Krillin.


----------



## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Feb 9, 2013)

Gonna buy both if they come out.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 9, 2013)

Krory said:


> Wii U is Chaozu, Orbis is Yamcha, Durango is Tien.
> 
> Steambox will be Krillin.



So the wii U explodes sometimes?


----------



## Krory (Feb 9, 2013)

The Orbis just flails around, the Durango disappeared after overexerting itself.

And the Steambox is really good at dying. And never being relevant.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 9, 2013)

Krory said:


> The Orbis just flails around, the Durango disappeared after overexerting itself.
> 
> And the Steambox is really good at dying. And never being relevant.



I thought you'd say Steambox destroys disks.


----------



## dream (Feb 9, 2013)

Krory said:


> *Next-Gen Games Might Not Look Much Different From Crysis 3*
> 
> ...says one of the most full-of-shit people in the industry (Crytek CEO Cevat Yerli) since whoever at Ubisoft thought an "exclusive demo" would make up for cheating the Wii U Rayman Legends crowd out of their game and making them wait seven more months.



If by Crysis 3 he means fully maxed out Crysis 3 on the PC then he won't be too full of shit since the PC version does look downright gorgeous.  We'll still get more impressive looking games eventually.  We'll still get more impressive games but just how impressive will depend on how powerful the systems will end up being.


----------



## Krory (Feb 9, 2013)

He actually mentions current-gen consoles in his statement.



> "I don't think Crytek can do more on current generation consoles than Crysis 3.
> 
> "I actually think people will be astonished that next gen launch titles from other companies might not be much different from Crysis 3."


----------



## dream (Feb 10, 2013)

Yes, he mentions that Crytek can't do better than Crysis 3 on current generation consoles.  That is likely a true statement.  But do note that not once does he say that next gen launch titles might not be much different from console Crysis 3. he just says Crysis 3.  He could have been talking about PC Crysis 3 which is quite a bit superior to the console version.


*Spoiler*: __ 






PC version:


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

It's natural human way of speaking. He doesn't mention PC, either. He was on the topic of consoles - particularly current-generation consoles at that point. He segues into his statement about next-gen consoles without skipping a beat. It's a natural and reasonable conclusion. Sounds like - to me - he's saying "Other companies on next-gen will look like our games current-gen." 

But you are right. It fits with his  here, saying that Crysis 3's PC graphics rival what next-gen will do (and that no current-gen console game is, or can, touch Crysis 2). Though as seen in the article, he kind of discredits the meaning of what he's getting at with comments made even earlier than that, that graphical horsepower is going to mean jack-all when next-gen technology won't be the same kind of leap that current-gen made.


----------



## EJ (Feb 10, 2013)

HAHHAHAAH YEAAAAH!

Hey guess what PS4 and Xbox 720 fans? US PC GAMERS STILLL ARE THE BEST IN THE WOOOORLD

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAA

can't wait to build my new pc'


----------



## strongarm85 (Feb 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> Wii U is Chaozu, Orbis is Yamcha, Durango is Tien.
> 
> Steambox will be Krillin.



That would mean the PC is Goku.


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

strongarm85 said:


> That would mean the PC is Goku.


----------



## Shirker (Feb 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> HAHHAHAAH YEAAAAH!
> 
> Hey guess what PS4 and Xbox 720 fans? US PC GAMERS STILLL ARE THE BEST IN THE WOOOORLD
> 
> ...



Make sure it doesn't turn you into a dick. I just built mine and I managed to keep from turning too insufferable, but I dunno how long it'll last.


----------



## EJ (Feb 10, 2013)

How much did it cost to build yours?


----------



## Shirker (Feb 10, 2013)

Anywhere from 600 to 700 bucks. I kinda lost count since I went overbudget like an idiot....

I'm happy with the end product, though.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 10, 2013)

Flow, why the hell are you building a new PC now? Wait for next gen to start so you know what to expect.


----------



## EJ (Feb 10, 2013)

HAH! I plan to spend like over 1k on mine. Which means mine will be better. BEST IN THE WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORLD 

/dickheadfanboy


In all seriousness, what games do you play on your PC?


EDIT:

Wait what!? Am I too late!?  OH MY GOD


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

.


----------



## Shirker (Feb 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> In all seriousness, what games do you play on your PC?



Nothing yet. The video card was last priority since I initially built it for basic computing and editing, and just decided to make it vidja gaim worthy as a "might as well" thing.

Card came in the mail today. After I install it, I Plan on re-buying Sonic Generations (for mods), a bunch of retro games and any of the Valve discography I don't already own (aka, the Portal games). Other than that, nothing's on my radar as of now.


----------



## EJ (Feb 10, 2013)

Damn, looks like I was too late to the after party.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> *Next-Gen Games Might Not Look Much Different From Crysis 3*
> 
> ...says one of the most full-of-shit people in the industry (Crytek CEO Cevat Yerli) since whoever at Ubisoft thought an "exclusive demo" would make up for cheating the Wii U Rayman Legends crowd out of their game and making them wait seven more months.



He was talking about the PC version, it ties back to his previous statement a few month ago





> _GamesBeat: How do you think Crysis 3 is going to look compared to Unreal Engine 4 games or next-gen console games?
> _
> Yerli: I honestly think that Unreal Engine 4 would not be able to do Crysis 3 on consoles right now. The PC version could do it, maybe, but it would call for a higher PC spec. CryEngine 3 is capable of doing anything Unreal Engine 4 can. We don’t need to tick up the number to CryEngine 4.
> 
> *As far as next-gen console games, I think Crysis 3 on the PC will be very comparable. Because it’s a high-end PC title, implicitly it’s a next-gen game. It’s just a next-gen PC game.*




Basically, he's just been bullshit hyping his game as people have suspected. But there is a layer of truth to his words, as launch titles will basically be PC versions of current gen games like COD2 was on 360. There will be stand out titles that show the potential of the console as well though, that will surpass current high end PC graphics.

Later on in the gen, depending on what happens, we'll be looking back at games of the last few years on the PC the same way as we look back on PC games pre 360 launch, wondering if that's really what we once thought looked high end bleeding edge.


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

I know, Inu. I just said that in my last post.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

Well, its your fault for Ninja'ing me isn't it 

Maybe if you weren't so fast at typing, we would not be going through this


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

You're absolutely right.  I apologize, and shall go delete my post.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

See? You did it again. You have to admit you have a problem man. With typing


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

I swear, I'm trying to get help.


----------



## Geralt of Rivia (Feb 10, 2013)

PC master race.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

Back in your holes PC trolls 

Its the nature of customizable hardware to get the best graphics, but only if you invest in that sort of thing 

I think its much more interesting to see what devs can do when they are limited from a hardware perspective to push the most out of what they have. In that way, i think Crytek aren't really all that talented a studio.


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

If you believe Epic, in a few years it'll be Glorious iOS/Facebook Master Race.


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I think its much more interesting to see what devs can do when they are limited from a hardware perspective to push the most out of what they have. In that way, i think Crytek aren't really all that talented a studio.



They focus too much on just solid detail instead of what the details can do. Detail means little to me unless it's actually _doing_ something. I don't care how many veins you can show in the leaves of your foliage. If it doesn't move and react like real foliage, those details mean fuckall to me. In the PS2 era, the most impressive thing when a game like MGS2 came out wasn't how good it looked. It was watching fucking ice cubes melt. Stuff like BioShock Infinite is doing - your hand dripping magma from the fire Vigor doesn't just drip off screen. You can look down and see as it burns into the concrete below you or burns away a carpet.

_That_ is impressive.


----------



## dream (Feb 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> It's natural human way of speaking. He doesn't mention PC, either. He was on the topic of consoles - particularly current-generation consoles at that point. He segues into his statement about next-gen consoles without skipping a beat. It's a natural and reasonable conclusion. Sounds like - to me - he's saying "Other companies on next-gen will look like our games current-gen."



It is a natural way of speaking but I'm doubtful about the second sentence being spoken right after the first one.  They're in two different quotation marks so the paranoid side of me believes that something else was said before the second statement, something that would minimize the amount of chatter that was caused how CVG's article.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

I'll always remember Metroid prime and being blown away the first time i saw raindrops from tallon IV landing on the visor of Samus's helmet and slowly dripping away 

When Nintendo wants to, they can really push that kind of immersion factor in their games.

Its the same in bioshock 1 where you go under a leaky pipe and your screen gets all blurry like your underwater. The finer details is what counts


----------



## Shirker (Feb 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> They focus too much on just solid detail instead of what the details can do. Detail means little to me unless it's actually _doing_ something. I don't care how many veins you can show in the leaves of your foliage. If it doesn't move and react like real foliage, those details mean fuckall to me.



F--king thank you. I'm probably gonna step on a ton of toes by saying this, but screw it... One of the only real one up PC games have over consoles is potential polygon count.

*Puts on fire-proof vest* No apologies.


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I'll always remember Metroid prime and being blown away the first time i saw raindrops from tallon IV landing on the visor of Samus's helmet and slowly dripping away
> 
> When Nintendo wants to, they can really push that kind of immersion factor in their games.
> 
> Its the same in bioshock 1 where you go under a leaky pipe and your screen gets all blurry like your underwater. The finer details is what counts



Two other perfect examples. I still remember reacting to Metroid Prime the same way I did to the MGS2 example. It was like, "Oh my God, are you wizards?!"


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

Shirker said:


> F--king thank you. I'm probably gonna step on a ton of toes by saying this, but screw it... One of the only real one up PC games have over consoles is potential polygon count.
> 
> *Puts on fire-proof vest* No apologies.



Not even that much anymore. Devs don't take advantage of PC hardware anymore, its too expensive for the investment. They usually just go nuts on resolution and AA. Like the two most likely things you'll see on PC ports of console games these days is finer AA selections and high resolution texture packs(and support for higher screen resolutions obviously), but the games are technically the exact same on PC and console.


----------



## strongarm85 (Feb 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> PC is more like Piccolo.
> 
> Goku is the Super NES.



I see. So if Piccolo is the PC than that must mean that Apple TV is Nappa and Vegeta is the I-pad?

So what does that make Gohan?

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhuJgMJ_gyQ[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 10, 2013)

Amazing,just amazing! 



10 more days left to go!


----------



## Overwatch (Feb 10, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> Amazing,just amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> 10 more days left to go!


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 10, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I'll always remember Metroid prime and being blown away the first time i saw raindrops from tallon IV landing on the visor of Samus's helmet and slowly dripping away
> 
> *When Nintendo wants to, they can really push that kind of immersion factor in their games.*
> 
> Its the same in bioshock 1 where you go under a leaky pipe and your screen gets all blurry like your underwater. The finer details is what counts



You mean Retro, though. We all know what happened when Nintendo tried to immerse the player with deep, intricate character focused storyline.

That said, it's in the little details, definitely.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 10, 2013)

God, those are fucking hilarious.


----------



## DedValve (Feb 10, 2013)

I can't wait for Fallout 4 in glorious 1080p subHD with 6030 fps with dips and on the not gamebryo gamebryo engine!


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 10, 2013)

I hope Bethesda go with id Tech5 for their next game.



Inuhanyou said:


> I think its much more interesting to see what devs can do when they are limited from a hardware perspective to push the most out of what they have. In that way, i think Crytek aren't really all that talented a studio.



There's also optimization. You can have all the bells and whistles in your game, if it runs like shit, then no one cares. I hear UC and GoW run solidly while looking great, while console Crysis sucks


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 10, 2013)

I'm dying


----------



## dream (Feb 10, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> I hope Bethesda go with id Tech5 for their next game.



Is id Tech5 even good for the kinds of games Bethesda makes?  A part of me really doubts it.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 10, 2013)

I don't know, I just want more games with that engine, but only studios associated with Zenimax will use it.


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

Then that means Shinji Mikami's new dev team (Tango Gameworks) can use it, and MachineGames (obtained by Bethesda, made up of former Starbreeze Studios founder and members mostly) are currently use it to make a title _and_ that means Arkane Studios could use it, too. 

We don't need Bethesda glitching out the ass on another engine if they can barely work with their own.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 10, 2013)

Speaking of Tango, some fucking info on Zwei would be nice.


----------



## Shirker (Feb 10, 2013)

God Movement said:


> OMFG
> 
> LOL



Where do people come up with this stuff?!


----------



## Corruption (Feb 10, 2013)

I just really hope this used game/always internet connection bullshit isn't true. Otherwise, both Sony and Microsoft will eventually get my money.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 10, 2013)

Shirker said:


> Where do people come up with this stuff?!


----------



## dream (Feb 10, 2013)

If it's a PS4 reveal that thread is going to explode.


----------



## EJ (Feb 10, 2013)

Man, screw video games. Fuck this shit. Fuck this stupid bullshit. ALl they want me to do is wait. Then wait more. Then tke my money.


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

Especially if Sony reveals their disc-lock-chip patent is true.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 10, 2013)

There's always the WiiU, but yeah Sony and MS can go fuck themselves if they go with that direction.. hell i might even go with that steambox people are so wet about  




Krory said:


> Especially if Sony reveals their disc-lock-chip patent is true.



dat Lara set


----------



## DedValve (Feb 10, 2013)

I fucking love gaf


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 10, 2013)

What the hell am i looking at?


----------



## Ultimania (Feb 10, 2013)

People need to quit taking these rumors seriously until they become facts. Personally, I highly doubt Sony and Microsoft want to shoot themselves in the foot. Well...Sony has enough sense, not sure about Microsoft.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> There's also optimization. You can have all the bells and whistles in your game, if it runs like shit, then no one cares. I hear UC and GoW run solidly while looking great, while console Crysis sucks



*Exactly*. I've played better looking games than Crysis 2 on 360, but somehow they managed to barely get Crysis 2 running at 25fps most of the time(and at worse it goes down to 15fps, almost unplayable)

Its not talent to just take a PC game and cut it down until you can get your shiny looking tech to barely run on it when the game itself runs like garbage. Its an issue with Crysis 2 as well as Crysis 3 beta and even Crysis 1 had major issues.

In my opinion, its that kind of thing that separates the truly talented studios from the studios who just talk to look like they have a big dick.

Everything in Bayonetta on 360 is in real time, nothing is faked, no pre rendered cut-scenes or trickery. Everything is the devs getting the most out of the 360's hardware, same with Halo 3 and Reach. I find Bungie and Platinum's efforts for example, infinitely more interesting than anything Crytek does. 

Its also why i'm somewhat critical of PS3 exclusive devs(like naughty dog). They use the blu ray's disk space to cop out, using render farms and shit like that to trick the gamer into thinking that what they see on screen in cutscenes is real time rendering, when its actually dolled up pre rendered cut-scenes running in the in game engine.

Same with FF13, although for FFXIII-2 and 3 they've gone with real time (although you can obviously see the major hit to performance because of that, Crystal tools is a crappy engine, hopefully Luminous is better at real time rendering)


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

Ultimania said:


> People need to quit taking these rumors seriously until they become facts. Personally, I highly doubt Sony and Microsoft want to shoot themselves in the foot. Well...Sony has enough sense, not sure about Microsoft.



Yeah, because Sony is the shining example of the people.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 10, 2013)

@Inu.

Real time? What happened with going pre-rendered? 



> Yeah, because Sony is the shining example of the people.



You think they'll double dip for it?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> @Inu.
> 
> Real time? What happened with going pre-rendered?



Eh? What do yo mean what happened with it?


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 10, 2013)

You said that FFXIII-2/3 have gone real time and how the performance hit in XIII-3 was because of it. It almost seems as if you were implying FFXIII was a different case due to how pre-rendered it was (at least from what i heard?).

I'm just curious.


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> You think they'll double dip for it?



MS will do whatever they think will make them look better than Sony - just like they did with GeoHot.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> You said that FFXIII-2/3 have gone real time and how the performance hit in XIII-3 was because of it. It almost seems as if you were implying FFXIII was a different case due to how pre-rendered it was (at least from what i heard?).
> 
> I'm just curious.



Indeed it was a different case. Most of the cut-scenes on PS3 were just high quality videos using the in game engine, they weren't real time, and the game was basically running in a linear straight line from cut scene to cut scene with nothing really happening in between. From my speculation, it seems like SE designed the entire engine specifically around games that used this format with nothing particularly taxing happening in real time.

This is why when they had to port it to 360 there were many issues. The whole reason 360 had so many disks was because the dvd's didn't have enough space individually to hold all the video files, and even then, they had to degrade the quality and resolution of the files themselves significantly to fit them. This took a large amount of time for the developers to work on.

So with XIII-2 and XIII-3, they went with everything in game running real time. but since the engine(crystal tools) wasn't created for that purpose, actually opening up the levels to not be so linear, putting more NPC's in them and basically being more ambitious hurt the performance of the game. I think on 360 XIII-2 doesn't hit 30fps at all during gameplay. On the upside, it only require one disk because of the saved space, and actually saved time for developers and made it easier for them to work on developing the game.

Crystal tools was indeed a failure


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 10, 2013)

Oh, that makes sense.  

Boy the more i hear about the Crystal Tools it astounds me how S.E. bottle necked themselves for an entire gen, wasting resource on it and all.  Ah well, Luminous should do much more wonders for them next gen. Provided they don't screw up another FF title (lol).



> MS will do whatever they think will make them look better than Sony - just like they did with GeoHot.



Well i guess there's that.....and third party publishers who probably want to dig their own graves without knowing it.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

Well crystal tools was one of their main issues this gen. It fucked up FF14 and 13 as games from a technical perspective and now they are paying for it.

That's why no games are using Crystal tools now except for 13-3, and only because its easier to reuse assets from the previous games instead of using a brand new engine. FF13 is basically the budget franchise, and it really feels like it, cause its garbage 

I hope next gen, Toriyama gets fired permanently


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

Fired?

I was hoping he could just be tarred and feathered and left somewhere to starve.


----------



## Reyes (Feb 10, 2013)




----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

Maybe the motorstorm dev will finally hit their 2005 target render with PS4


----------



## EJ (Feb 10, 2013)

So when is E3? Depending on what is revealed I will make my choice if I will build my PC now.


----------



## Reyes (Feb 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> So when is E3? Depending on what is revealed I will make my choice if I will build my PC now.



June 11-13.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

June 

PS4 reveal will likely be in 10 days tho


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

June is going to be so fucking awesome.

Halo 5.
Uncharted 4.
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 4.
Battlefield 4.
Assassin's Creed 4 (stylized as IV, for posterity, of course).

I can just see the unanimous masturbating now.


----------



## EJ (Feb 10, 2013)

Man fuck this stupid bullshit


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> June is going to be so fucking awesome.
> 
> Halo 5.
> Uncharted 4.
> ...



Sequels upon sequels.


----------



## EJ (Feb 10, 2013)

Isn't it always like that.


----------



## dream (Feb 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> June is going to be so fucking awesome.
> 
> Halo 5.
> Uncharted 4.
> ...



I see and like what you did.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

There will be plenty of sequels, but there will also be plenty of new IP's as well. Don't be such debbie downers and jackass cynics


----------



## Reyes (Feb 10, 2013)

Killzone devolpers and Media Molecule should show off there new IP.

Also Sucker Punch.


----------



## EJ (Feb 10, 2013)

MAN FUCK THIS SIT

E3 is going to suck balls this damn year. Fuck this shit man, gaming is dying now.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> MAN FUCK THIS SIT
> 
> E3 is going to suck balls this damn year. Fuck this shit man, gaming is dying now.



"Now" he says.

Oh boy.


----------



## dream (Feb 10, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> There will be plenty of sequels, but there will also be plenty of new IP's as well. Don't be such debbie downers and jackass cynics



We'll get quite a bit of new IPs developed for the super casual crowd.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

That's been the case for a while now  i mean IP that we would care about

also



Flow said:


> MAN FUCK THIS SIT
> 
> E3 is going to suck balls this damn year. Fuck this shit man, gaming is dying now.



Stop being annoying


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

E3 is _always_ been shit. It's never been a good indication of the gaming industry.

It's been the worst.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> E3 is _always_ been shit. It's never been a good indication of the gaming industry.
> 
> It's been the worst.



Every year I always get this weird craving of eating Doritos? and drinking Mountain Dew? in unhealthy quantities after each E3. I don't even like Mountain Dew?.


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

E3 is a step away from being lower on the list than anything on Spike TV.


----------



## dream (Feb 10, 2013)

This year is going to be different guys, everyone will be super pleased by everything that they see...except for perhaps Nintendo fans.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

Is that why everyone is moving away from having E3 as their centerpiece? Nintendo directs are already going against the grain, Sony is probably next. Annual trade shows are so out of style.


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

TGS, DICE, GDC... all bigger than E3 and generally have better announcements.

E3 is a poor, poor example of the state of gaming. Then again I must be the only person that doesn't think it's dead/dying.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

I agree, but TGS wasn't even attended by Nintendo or Microsoft last year, and mobile IOS games were like 99.9 percent of what was on show. GDC too was barren :/ :/


----------



## DedValve (Feb 10, 2013)

E3 is great for massive hype and dropping nukes everywhere but a less hyped, more steady stream of inormation throughout the year is just sooooo much better, even if I'll miss the super hype of E3.

but previous E3's sucked.


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I agree, but TGS wasn't even attended by Nintendo or Microsoft last year, and mobile IOS games were like 99.9 percent of what was on show. GDC too was barren :/ :/



Mostly because Nintendo saved their news for better moments and MS didn't have shit.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 10, 2013)

Krory said:


> Mostly because Nintendo saved their news for better moments and* MS didn't have shit*.


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

And yet still wasn't any better or worse than the VITA VAN VUNDERBOOK! presentation that Sony gave.

At least they left the graphs and charts at home.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

I liked the tomb raider presentation at MS's conference last year -runs-


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 10, 2013)

Solaris said:


> This year is going to be different guys, everyone will be super pleased by everything that they see...*except for perhaps Nintendo fans.*



Yeeeeeaaahh no. Nintendo Direct/TGS >>>>>> shitty E3 conferences. 

I'm only holding out for this year due to Nintendo (and maybe Sony) actually waiting to drop their bombs to entice gamers upon purchasing the goods.


----------



## dream (Feb 10, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I liked the tomb raider presentation at MS's conference last year -runs-



Was that the one with all the moaning or was that from the previous E3?


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

That's the one, Solaris.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

"moaning"?  what's that all about


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

Don't you remember? Everyone was all "Hahahaha, it sounds like she's having sex" because the only sexual experience they're familiar with is studio pornography.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 10, 2013)

THe hazards of game making


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

Am I the only one that doesn't like when a video game developer only plays the games they are working on? I think that's one thing Cliffy B, in spite of his numerous, countless, horrendous faults, had over people... at least he actually played games. I feel the same about authors that don't read other books, or film directors/writers/producers that don't watch other films.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 10, 2013)

Cliffy seems like a cool guy to hang around with  i just think he's too invested in the 'industry' to be of use to me as an average gamer  He's got that "what's good for my publisher is the best route" thing going on.

A lot of devs unfortunately have been tricked by their publishers into that kind of mindset


----------



## Krory (Feb 10, 2013)

He's clear of that obligation now, though. Yet he's taken to, instead, offering to "fix" peoples' games for them when he couldn't even do the same for his own series. I wouldn't be surprised of Cliff bailed because he couldn't take the pressure of people railing on him for his poor choices. We're not talking someone under some huge conglomerate corporation like West and Zampella were at Activision. Bleszinski was still a bigwig as far as a company as small as Epic Games goes. He's gotten too big of a head. That's all it is. He's in league with Cage and Molyneux now.


----------



## EJ (Feb 10, 2013)

hahahahahahahaha


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 11, 2013)

That's what happens when you fuck up on stage production at the last second. You and your money just look like an arsehole bringing out celebs where they aren't wanted


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

I still feel bad for Ken Levine during Sony's presentation.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 11, 2013)

I feel bad and i wasn't even aware of it


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

He looked so soulless trying to ship the Move for BioShock Infinite and peddling whatever Vita shit they wanted him to.

He must've felt like such a jackass, especially after his comments regarding motion controls.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 11, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]FRTsl1jCqq8[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]-IiRzmfs5aw[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 11, 2013)

Krory said:


> He looked so soulless trying to ship the Move for BioShock Infinite and peddling whatever Vita shit they wanted him to.
> 
> He must've felt like such a jackass, especially after his comments regarding motion controls.



Shit, I vaguely remember that. I loved how he had to sound excited for something he either never talked about in his career or actively dismissed.


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

And then he's never talked about it since.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 11, 2013)

Krory.


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

I don't see what you're getting at here.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 11, 2013)

Oh, then I must have misunderstood. My apologies.


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

Me, too, then.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 11, 2013)

Krory said:


> E3 is a poor, poor example of the state of gaming. Then again I must be the only person that doesn't think it's dead/dying.



Any reasonable person knows that E3 is just a giant hypefest for investors and suits rather than a show to actually appeal to gamers. Hell, the big presentations aren't even the best part of E3. 

I don't think it's dead/dying, but I'd be a fool to say it's not getting to that point.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 11, 2013)

E3 has now disappointed me every time i watch it live.. i never fucking learn


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 11, 2013)

Every year people also say that this will be the E3 to redeem E3, but that never happens either.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 11, 2013)

but this year it really will


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

Then you just hate fun, Death.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 11, 2013)

This year will be the year E3 is redeemed! I bet my life on it.


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

You can't redeem something nonredeemable.


----------



## Death-kun (Feb 11, 2013)

B-But this year it will be...


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 11, 2013)

i hear a Little Big Planet and a Motor Storm game might be launch titles for the next Playstation.. yawn 

Sauce:


----------



## God Hand (Feb 11, 2013)

Khris said:


> i hear a Little Big Planet and a Motor Storm game might be launch titles for the next Playstation.. yawn
> 
> Sauce:




IT"S MOTOR STORM!!!!!!


*crowd does not applaud* *even crickets are quiet*


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

*MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTOR STORM!*


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 11, 2013)

I really liked Motorstorm 1 and 3  pacific rift tho.....


----------



## Pilaf (Feb 11, 2013)

So does anyone in this thread actually still buy the next gen BS? I was under the impression both Sony and Microsoft were focusing on the current gen consoles through at least 2015.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 11, 2013)

^

Uh its been 8 years. Longer than any previous modern console cycle

Have you been under a rock?

PS4 is being announced in 9 days and they will both be released before this year is over


----------



## EJ (Feb 11, 2013)

lol, what if you're wrong? Then what Inuhanyou?


Where will your "" be then?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 11, 2013)

Flow said:


> lol, what if you're wrong? Then what Inuhanyou?
> 
> 
> Where will your "" be then?



I'm not wrong


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 11, 2013)

Sony is releasing ps3 ultra slim that day


----------



## EJ (Feb 11, 2013)

hahaahahahahahahahaha what if they did?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 11, 2013)

The ultra super slim, except this time it'll cost 599(for nostalgia's sake) and just be a piece of shitty plastic that doesn't play games


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

PS Vita 2.0.


----------



## strongarm85 (Feb 11, 2013)

Krory said:


> PS Vita 2.0.



This.

All those leaked specs we've been looking at were for a fucking tablet PC to compete against the iPad.

Coincidentally the tablet will weight 5 pounds and will require special gloves to operate because of the tremendous amount of heat it produces.


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

And then Sony will go, "Why you no like?!"


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 11, 2013)

The utter meltdowns that NeoGAF could unleashed, if true, would be astounding. Especially if it were E3. 

But lol who am i kidding OF COURSE we'll hear a PS4 announcement. 

Btw Krory, you don't seem to be very fond of Sony. Is it something about them that pisses you off greatly?


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

Sony is just the easiest target because the material is always fresh. I think Sony is equally as bad as others but nine times out of ten, people think it's more fun to go after Microsoft.

I restore the balance.

Like at E3 last year... everyone goes "LOLOLOLO KINECT" or "WII U FLOPPED, TWENTY MARIO GAMES." No one's going "LOLOLOLO MOVE WONDERBOOK STEALING KEN LEVINE'S SOUL." Someone needs to take that route.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 11, 2013)

Really? I though plenty of people were taking a dump on Wonderbook/Sony @ E3 last year, especially for the lack of Vita attention. And speaking of that, lets not forget the good amounts of "ROFL VITA FLOPPED NO MOAR SONY HANDHELDZ WORSE THAN DREAMCAST SW/HW SALEZ!" articles happening from back & forth. 

I wonder what the next "PS4 IZ DOOOOOOOOOMED" bandwagon will be like.


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

The only way that'll happen is if it drops at more than, say, 450-500 bucks and/or has the pre-owned block that they patented.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 11, 2013)

Oh God, the wonderbook.

At least they were sober enough to see that shit wasn't going anywhere.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 11, 2013)

Krory said:


> The only way that'll happen is if it drops at more than, say, 450-500 bucks and/or has the pre-owned block that they patented.



Odd, some posters I've read said that they were fine with paying for that amount of money for the PS4 though i think i almost think they're BS'ing about that. But eh, how would i know. . 

I think the anti-used game thing/always online policy would set the world on fire in more ways than one, negatively.


----------



## dream (Feb 11, 2013)

Krory said:


> Like at E3 last year... everyone goes "LOLOLOLO KINECT" or "WII U FLOPPED, TWENTY MARIO GAMES." No one's going "LOLOLOLO MOVE WONDERBOOK STEALING KEN LEVINE'S SOUL." Someone needs to take that route.



I made fun of Wonderbook. 



Asakuna no Senju said:


> Odd, some posters I've read said that they were fine with paying for that amount of money for the PS4 though i think i almost think they're BS'ing about that. But eh, how would i know. .



I'm not lying about being willing to pay that much.


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Odd, some posters I've read said that they were fine with paying for that amount of money for the PS4 though i think i almost think they're BS'ing about that. But eh, how would i know. .



Well I said more than.


----------



## strongarm85 (Feb 11, 2013)

Its a matter of perspective.

For the sake of argument we'll create an imaginary unit called Computing Power (CP) and we'll set CP = 1 in the PS1.

1 * 48 = 48CP (PS2)

48*40 = 1920 CP

1920 * 4 = 7680 CP

So a 4 times power increase is still technically a bigger than jump in total computing power than we've seen from any previous generation. While multiplicitly it seems smaller, it's actually a big bump because of how powerful the machines already were.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 11, 2013)

^ Exactly! 360 and PS3 are already massively impressive machines considering what they've achieved during their life spans and how strong they were initially at the outset of their conception. Now taking that, and multiplying it by 4 would by itself provide a massive increase in processing power and visual fidelity.

And that only is the most basic kind of conclusion there is, when you don't even take into account the fact that the PS4 is not just several PS3's hooked up together, and there are massive boons in architecture efficiency inside the console and the tools of the developers,  which elevate its capabilities far beyond that kind of simplistic thinking


----------



## strongarm85 (Feb 11, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> They gave how much it weighed back then?



Shipping costs back then were largely based on weight back then. That scan is from a mail order catalog.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 11, 2013)

> I'm not lying about being willing to pay that much.



Of course you would......



> Sony i'm thinking has learned things, so 400 dollars i expect to be the premium price point



*Better* be!


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 11, 2013)

We'll know in 8 days


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm going to cry. 

So Inu, do you think next gen is going to have cgi-like visuals this time around like the Luminous Tech demo?


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

Luminous is going to look _excellent_ on characters with seventy-four zippers.


----------



## dream (Feb 11, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> So Inu, do you think next gen is going to have cgi-like visuals this time around like the Luminous Tech demo?



Yes.  **


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 11, 2013)

> Luminous is going to look excellent on characters with seventy-four zippers.



Running @ sub-24FPS with lucious screen tearing up the arse.  /sarcasm


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 11, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> I'm going to cry.
> 
> So Inu, do you think next gen is going to have cgi-like visuals this time around like the Luminous Tech demo?



I doubt it will.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 11, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> I'm going to cry.
> 
> So Inu, do you think next gen is going to have cgi-like visuals this time around like the Luminous Tech demo?



Yes. Why do i think that? Because Agni was running at full 1080p at full 60fps with 8xMSAA and FXAA enabled along with 16xFP on a GTX680  It only took 1.8gb of VRAM to achieve it as well.

What we know, is that PS4 is a console that has a GPU that could emulate the GTX680 with things pared back slightly. 1280x1080 instead of full 1080p and whatnot. 4xMSAA instead of 8xMSAA. 500 thousand insects on screen instead of a million.  It also has 3.5 gb of usable ram as well that could be used as texture data.

Agni level visuals WILL be run on PS4, especially with that ram bandwidth.


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

Oh that's cute... people think they "know" anything.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 11, 2013)

Well, i doubt anyone can know things with certainty until the 20th(and beyond), but we can make educated conclusions based on what we 'do' know


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

What we _do_ know is all rumors, though. If I'm not mistaken?


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 11, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Yes. Why do i think that? Because Agni was running at full 1080p at full 60fps with 8xMSAA and FXAA enabled along with 16xFP on a GTX680  It only took 1.8gb of VRAM to achieve it as well.
> 
> What we know, is that PS4 is a console that has a GPU that could emulate the GTX680 with things pared back slightly. 1280x1080 instead of full 1080p and whatnot. 4xMSAA instead of 8xMSAA. 500 thousand insects on screen instead of a million.  It also has 3.5 gb of usable ram as well that could be used as texture data.
> 
> Agni level visuals WILL be run on PS4, especially with that ram bandwidth.



Ignoring if it could run it there is more to it than that.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 11, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Ignoring if it could run it there is more to it than that.




Sure sure, but we've gotta be clear that we're talking about a tech demo here  

Agni's Philosophy was literally a CGI real time demo. They took all the character models and field assets(like the objects in the world, mountains buildings ect) straight from the CGI render they did before hand and ran it through their engine without touching a thing.

If you actually take the time to compress textures, and model things to get the same result in an actual game where you have to pile AI, gameplay systems, and a living world inside of it, there's no reason it should not feasibly be possible.

Especially when a lot of things that would take a while for designers to work on are now automatically procedurally generated, so that means less time and work to get better results.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 11, 2013)

Interesting. 

But could the same results be said if Agni's phil-whatever gets ported to the 720? Since both of them are aiming to be graphical beasts while one of them is freaking fast and the other isn't and needs to compensate it's Ram bandwidth.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 11, 2013)

Not everything needs super fast ram to function as needed. Heck, most of the units that these high end next gen engines were created on were using 16 or 32gb of DDR3.  For this kind of thing specifically, Durango is equipped best to handle it, as long as the ESRAM and DDR3 are used in the right spots.

What i'm more concerned about for PS4 is the amount. I dunno if its possible to get the ram amount to 6gb, but i'd like for them to try for that before they go to manufacturing(i'm guessing somewhere later in the summer)


----------



## Krory (Feb 11, 2013)

Did anyone post SupeDaE's recent leaks (read: RUMORS) about the Durango? You know, the mandatory-install and game-swapping stuff?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 11, 2013)

No i don't think they did 

But that install function is somewhat interesting. You could play the game while installing, and the upside is that the installation effectively eliminates any visual pop in as we know it from disk based streaming. 

So that means in a game like Skyrim, draw distance would definitely never again be a problem on the disk side.


----------



## Krory (Feb 12, 2013)

Pretty much.

At first I was like, "Who the fuck is going to want to try and play two games at the same time?"

But then I could remember at least six moments on the past two days when I was playing one game and wanted to switch to another but didn't feel like getting up...

Inu seems to know what I'm talking about  Gives some specs, says Kinect is required to function but all consoles ship with a Kinect by default (an updated Kinect that sounds like it's more "in-tune" with the console, to make it easier for devs to incorporate it). Ships with a 500GB hard drive due to the fact that games will need to be installed, but as Inu said you will be able to play the game while it is installing.

There's also some kind of "game swap" where you'll be able to pause a game, put it to the background and go to another one or do the same with apps (now eliminating the need to exit your game to go do something on Twitter or Facebook over XBox - much like you can do on smart phones now).

Not sure how much of this is repeat info, but eh.


----------



## dream (Feb 12, 2013)

> There's also some kind of "game swap" where you'll be able to pause a game, put it to the background and go to another one



Hard Mode:  Playing COD multiplayer and BF multiplayer at the same time.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 12, 2013)

Sounds neat....


----------



## Krory (Feb 12, 2013)

The ellipsis begs to differ.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 12, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Sure sure, but we've gotta be clear that we're talking about a tech demo here
> 
> Agni's Philosophy was literally a CGI real time demo. They took all the character models and field assets(like the objects in the world, mountains buildings ect) straight from the CGI render they did before hand and ran it through their engine without touching a thing.
> 
> ...


Have fun with your hallways


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 12, 2013)

^In 60FPS with sub-HD resolution. 

Mandatory Kinect? Don't want.


----------



## Krory (Feb 12, 2013)

You probably don't have to use it. It's presence is required for the console to run is all, it seems.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 12, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Have fun with your hallways



 Oh you

But seriously, i'm glad SE is finally ditching Crystal tools once and for all after lightning returns. What a piece of garbage

How do you go from making cities in last remnant to making garbage hallways or crappy areas that run at a perpetual 15 fps 

Even Lost Odyssey had wide open areas and that was Sakaguchi's relatively small team without SE's financial backing


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 12, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Oh you
> 
> But seriously, i'm glad SE is finally ditching Crystal tools once and for all after lightning returns. What a piece of garbage
> 
> ...



If you watched that video I posted earlier you should know why I'm skeptical.
[YOUTUBE]FRTsl1jCqq8[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 12, 2013)

I didn't  it doesn't really mean much anyways, i know the point your trying to make and i'm simply saying that it isn't necessarily the case based on a variety of factors involved.

That whole "hallway" debate only caught on because SE made that excuse trying to defend themselves in the wake of people finding out 13 was a straight line. 

"Oh it would take so long to make a game that wasn't a hallway!" Yeah, a lot of other games proved that wrong before and after 13. They just didn't want to admit that they had huge issues with development across the board at the time.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 12, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I didn't  it doesn't really mean much anyways, i know the point your trying to make and i'm simply saying that it isn't necessarily the case based on a variety of factors involved.
> 
> That whole "hallway" debate only caught on because SE made that excuse trying to defend themselves in the wake of people finding out 13 was a straight line.
> 
> "Oh it would take so long to make a game that wasn't a hallway!" Yeah, a lot of other games proved that wrong before and after 13. They just didn't want to admit that they had huge issues with development across the board at the time.



Seeing as versus 13 is vaporware they still do 
I would hope we get more than pretty pictures from $ony and M$.


----------



## dream (Feb 12, 2013)

That part with Half-Life 2. 

To be honest, if every future game had Morrowind level graphics I wouldn't mind.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 12, 2013)

Solaris said:


> That part with Half-Life 2.
> 
> To be honest, if every future game had Morrowind level graphics I wouldn't mind.



They would just need tons of style and deep interactions.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 12, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Seeing as versus 13 is vaporware they still do
> I would hope we get more than pretty pictures from $ony and M$.



 can't disagree there

Eh...all i know is shit like all the bravest can't continue. And Toriyama needs to be irradiated


----------



## EvilMoogle (Feb 12, 2013)

Krory said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> At first I was like, "Who the fuck is going to want to try and play two games at the same time?"



Actually assuming "games" include the media apps I'd use that all the time.

I would love to be able to "pause" NetFlix to play a video off of a HD or a DVD and go back into NetFlix without relaunching.

Or pause a game I'm playing to launch NetFlix to watch a show and go back to the game without having to save/quit.


----------



## Krory (Feb 12, 2013)

Yeah, according to the "rumor" it does include the apps.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 12, 2013)

so as someone who doesn't really know specs that well, can someone tell me just how powerful the durango is supposed to be, compared to say the current xbox or a wii u?

I wonder if they can really get much more from graphics anymore, enough to outshine the wii u


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 12, 2013)

nvm I just needed to go back a page then. 

Is it really realistic to expect a substantial jump in graphics though, what with the amount of people you'd need to animate it


----------



## Gunners (Feb 12, 2013)

I hope for a greater variety in the games this generation as opposed to nice looking graphics and a good story.


----------



## EJ (Feb 12, 2013)

Yeah. 

I mean, Fall Out had terrible graphics, but an awesome story mode. I just want games like that.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 12, 2013)

Petes12 said:


> nvm I just needed to go back a page then.
> 
> Is it really realistic to expect a substantial jump in graphics though, what with the amount of people you'd need to animate it






Of course. As i said, many things have become streamlined to be much more convenient and less time consuming. Like water physics for example. instead of being something the artist has to painstakingly animate themselves, just put down the water and it flows according to the terrain by itself.

This will go for lots of things, which leaves time for the development team to continue working on what they need to.

People should do well to remember that SE is planning on this engine cutting out 30% of development costs and 25% of work time. That's just a natural result of tools becoming more efficient. if they didn't work to streamline those for easy development, what you were concerned about probably would indeed have an impact. Its not just SE trying to work on their tools either, every developer worth their salt is working on streamlining their development engines or contracting an engine that is easy to work with.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 12, 2013)

tbh I wouldn't care if we didn't see a big leap forward in graphic fidelity. I'm hoping that the wii u will be able to keep pace so it doesn't just become garbage like the wii did. And yeah I really hope we get away from the big focus on shooters that there's been this past generation


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 12, 2013)

^ I don't want to be a debbie downer, but expecting the Wii U to "keep up" from a power perspective, is probably setting yourself up to lose before the war even starts 

Nintendo's artstyles in their games will go a long way, but the hardware in the Wii U is comparable to the current generation


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 12, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> ^ I don't want to be a debbie downer, but expecting the Wii U to "keep up" from a power perspective, is probably setting yourself up to lose before the war even starts
> 
> Nintendo's artstyles in their games will go a long way, but the hardware in the Wii U is comparable to the current generation



Mario galaxy looks better than Kameo and a lot of titles.
They will jump ahead instead of keep up


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 12, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> ^ I don't want to be a debbie downer, but expecting the Wii U to "keep up" from a power perspective, is probably setting yourself up to lose before the war even starts
> 
> Nintendo's artstyles in their games will go a long way, but the hardware in the Wii U is comparable to the current generation



yeah I was afraid of that. their first person games are so good but its not worth getting an entire system that won't get any quality third person games. 

oh well.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 12, 2013)

well you know...nintendo are investing a lot in third party collaborations to gain marketshare...

We have lego city, and bayonetta 2/the wonderful 101 for example. And also, there are good ones like Nintendo and Altus partnership for that Fire Emblem SMT crossover, along with their Namco Bandai SSB collaboration...

Zombie U was a great success at bringing in marketshare


----------



## ensoriki (Feb 12, 2013)

No rpgs no care.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Feb 12, 2013)

Gunners said:


> I hope for a greater variety in the games this generation as opposed to nice looking graphics and a good story.


Well then you're in for some disappointment.

This generation completely killed: variety; story; taking chances; intrigue; challenge; length.

Next gen is gonna be all about looking good and being as casual as possible, to get all those millions spend on looking good back.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 12, 2013)

I'm fairly certain there will be RPG's. JRPG's, normal RPG's. Whatever kind of RPG's you want 

And if its new IP's your looking for, there will hopefully be plenty.


----------



## ensoriki (Feb 12, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I'm fairly certain there will be RPG's. JRPG's, normal RPG's. Whatever kind of RPG's you want
> 
> And if its new IP's your looking for, there will hopefully be plenty.



Pfft, yeah right dev time is going up hombre.
Gonna get 3 rpgs off these bitches.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 12, 2013)

We'll see how it goes, but i wouldn't mind having a bet on that one


----------



## ensoriki (Feb 12, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Ensoriki is the greatest, I fall before his intelligence, and Buttercup is my favourite Powerpuff girl.
> This message was not edited in any way shape or form.



Settle down, young disciple, I can confirm that at Feb 2013, PS4 has No games.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 12, 2013)

There are always indies, if you're disappointed in the big guns


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 12, 2013)

No Luca No is my favorite game ever


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 12, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> ^ I don't want to be a debbie downer, but expecting the Wii U to "keep up" from a power perspective, is probably setting yourself up to lose before the war even starts
> 
> Nintendo's artstyles in their games will go a long way, but the hardware in the Wii U is comparable to the current generation



I think one of the only ways i can see it "keep up" is if a dev gives a scaled down version of a next gen game for the console. Like the Luminous Engine for example, it was confirmed by SE to scale all the way downwards to current gen tech. Hell i believe they even mentioned Wii/3DS versions that were still being ironed out (correct me if i'm wrong). But thats a big "IF" considering third parties would probably rather go for the easier route if the game doesn't sell modestly. 

But yeah, at least Nintendo's investing on third party collaborations for the Wii U. So it's a start compared to last gen.


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 12, 2013)

EA's CFO talks about next-gen


----------



## Krory (Feb 12, 2013)

Oh, look. A level-headed look at used games.


----------



## God Hand (Feb 12, 2013)

Krory said:


> Oh, look. A level-headed look at used games.



I saw "EA" in the title of the article, then saw your comment and thought the guy was going to say something stupid, because it's EA for fucks sake.

Actually though, he didn't say anything stupid.

Hell hath apparently frozen over


----------



## Krory (Feb 12, 2013)

Considering EA is the only publisher making money on used games (especially the morons who decide to save five bucks on buying used the day of/after), it's no wonder.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Feb 12, 2013)

I wouldn't put too much stock in what they say though given that they're also leading the charge in "20% of the game you just bought is a single-user activation code."


----------



## Krory (Feb 12, 2013)

Like I just said.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 12, 2013)

now i hear Killzone 4 will be a launch title.. fucking lame breh


----------



## God Hand (Feb 12, 2013)

EvilMoogle said:


> I wouldn't put too much stock in what they say though given that they're also leading the charge in "20% of the game you just bought is a single-user activation code."



True that kupo.


----------



## Velocity (Feb 12, 2013)

Khris said:


> now i hear Killzone 4 will be a launch title.. fucking lame breh



If Sony was smart, they'd actually try to go out of their way to have a lot of big name games ready for the PS4's launch - and I mean the launch day, not the launch window and certainly not several months _after_ launch.

If they can guarantee at least Uncharted 4 and Gran Turismo 6, a lot of people will upgrade straight away. God of War is out of the question with Ascension coming out next month, but perhaps LittleBigPlanet 3 on launch day as well would get a lot of people interested in upgrading.

Sony literally cannot risk having the PS4 launch the same way the Vita and PS3 did - with people wondering why they had shelled out hundreds of dollars on a console with only a single decent first party title on it - so they need to go out of their way to make the PS4's launch as big as possible.

Backwards compatibility would be nice, too, since that's a huge flaw the PS3 and the Vita share.


----------



## dream (Feb 12, 2013)

> Sony literally cannot risk having the PS4 launch the same way the Vita and PS3 did - with people wondering why they had shelled out hundreds of dollars on a console with only a single decent first party title on it - so they need to go out of their way to make the PS4's launch as big as possible.



Agreed, Sony needs an impressive launch lineup to start strong.  Killzone 4 would be a nice launch game.  Same for Gran Turismo 6 but I don't believe that it will be one.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 12, 2013)

*Oh shit*

Bgassasin is confirming the no-used game/always online policy on the Xbox 720 EDGE article thread. Oh lord. 

Also take this part is speculation, but it seems even worrying too regarding Sony's case considering what he also said here....



> In regard to Sony and everything that's been made available up till now, IMO it would be better to expect a similar policy than not.



I'm freaking scared right now. Please Sony don't!


----------



## DedValve (Feb 12, 2013)

Considering the rumor first stemmed on Orbis like 2 months ago....Am I seriously the only one that remembers that? 

Fuck these consoles Imma have to build my own PC.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Feb 12, 2013)

This is gonna be a fun E3.


----------



## dream (Feb 12, 2013)

Deathbringerpt said:


> This is gonna be a fun E3.



No matter what happens with Sony and Microsoft, Valve will be keeping me satisfied when it comes to gaming.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 12, 2013)

BG's post just in case people want to actually see them:






> No matter what happens with Sony and Microsoft, Valve will be keeping me satisfied when it comes to gaming.



I'm been hearing a lot of great things about them and Steam, are Valve really _that_ good? Maybe i should try it sometime.


----------



## Krory (Feb 12, 2013)

Deathbringerpt said:


> This is gonna be a fun E3.



Mainly because after the used-game thing goes through, there probably won't be one since the industry will just die.


----------



## dream (Feb 12, 2013)

Wonder if Sony will reveal their anti-used-game policy on the 20th assuming that they will have one. 



> I'm been hearing a lot of great things about them and Steam, are Valve really that good? Maybe i should try it sometime.



Well, I've spent 2,000 hours playing just one of their games.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Feb 12, 2013)

I'll be amazed if Microsoft and Sony go different ways on used games.


----------



## DedValve (Feb 12, 2013)

Valve is like God, merciful, kind, will serve you to the best of their abilities and generally tries to push the industry forward through either games or services. Except Valve won't kill the entire human population because a few thousand people pirated half life and valve exists


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 12, 2013)

Solaris said:


> Wonder if Sony will reveal their anti-used-game policy on the 20th assuming that they will have one.



The utter meltdowns that would happen.....



> Well, I've spent 2,000 hours playing just one of their games.



Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. 



> Mainly because after the used-game thing goes through, there probably won't be one since the industry will just die.



We still have Steam, Valve, 3DS, and current gen consoles to rely on though. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Handheld it is then......


----------



## Krory (Feb 12, 2013)

Just a shame Valve recently fired one of their hardware peoples.


----------



## DedValve (Feb 12, 2013)

I truly am curious to see how many hours I poured into l4d2. God I still play that to this day.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 12, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> *Oh shit*
> 
> Bgassasin is confirming the no-used game/always online policy on the Xbox 720 EDGE article thread. Oh lord.
> 
> ...



BG isn't an insider. Although he has certain sources. 

Personally, i doubt Sony goes with this move. Sony and Microsoft could not make a deal together, that would be collusion, an illegal practice.


----------



## DedValve (Feb 12, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> BG isn't an insider. Although he has certain sources.
> 
> Personally, i doubt Sony goes with this move. Sony and Microsoft could not make a deal together, that would be collusion, an illegal practice.



Going by the various sources and rumors this wouldn't be sony and microsoft making a deal together but more of third parties (read EA and Activision) pressuring these guys to go anti-use and always online to get the best of their support. No doubt other companies pressured as well but EA and Activision are the most likely given their history.


----------



## Krory (Feb 12, 2013)

EA has more to gain from used games (hence why the CFO recently supported the notion of keeping pre-owned) since they're the only ones cashing out on it.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 13, 2013)

For the record, i do support EA's online pass venture, i think more companies should be doing it. Its a lot better than going after the entire used market via hard lock out. That is just a recipe for killing the console industry.

No used games thus no low prices. No BC. What kind of incentive is there for me to buy the next gen consoles at that rate? Are Microsoft stupid enough to think that their ecyosystem is enough to keep people from not realizing they are being screwed?  Especially since without BC their ecosystem really means nothing if it doesn't carry over.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 13, 2013)

You....support online passes?! Both are terrible!  

Tbh i think no BC is a given especially with Sony's case. They got rid of it from the PS3 onwards, and never bothered for it on the Vita (though i believe that option was probably written to the corner given with UMD discs since day 1 of the PSP). I wouldn't be surprised if MS never cared either and saw more benefits for Kinect. Either way i'll be severely pissed off at third party publishers if they really were pressuring towards making MS/Sony kill off used games/make forced online. It's like digging your own grave thinking you'll gain benefits jumping off a cliff just because.


----------



## Shirker (Feb 13, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> You....support online passes?! Both are terrible!



I dunno, I think it's a reasonabe policy that can be put into place if the developers are, like, really mad at used games. It's a better alternative than the rumored "brick them altogether" thing, and it assures that the developers get a cut of the used game market.

It's not something I feel should be applied to all games, but when it is applied to a game, I'd have no harsh feelings toward it. *shrugs*


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 13, 2013)

Same. tis the "lesser of two evils" that i'm advocating for. If they are so concerned about money, then just do that. but of course sales aren't the real issue for them. they want to control the market entirely not just profit from it.

That's the angle that will kill this industry. No competition just means bad news for you and me


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Feb 13, 2013)

Have there ever been exceptions to less competitions still doing well? Like the NES, GBA (i think), & the PS2 for instance. I'm not saying having no competition is the best thing for the market though.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 13, 2013)

Velocity said:


> If Sony was smart, they'd actually try to go out of their way to have a lot of big name games ready for the PS4's launch - and I mean the launch day, not the launch window and certainly not several months _after_ launch.
> 
> If they can guarantee at least Uncharted 4 and Gran Turismo 6, a lot of people will upgrade straight away. God of War is out of the question with Ascension coming out next month, but perhaps LittleBigPlanet 3 on launch day as well would get a lot of people interested in upgrading.
> 
> Sony literally cannot risk having the PS4 launch the same way the Vita and PS3 did - with people wondering why they had shelled out hundreds of dollars on a console with only a single decent first party title on it - so they need to go out of their way to make the PS4's launch as big as possible.



I can see Uncharted 4 announced at E3, especially since its basically probably the best PS3 exclusive out there and that Last of Us would have already been released.. Infamous 3 being announced on the 20th would be ideal as well.. 

and a new shooter IP for the dudebros.. Killzone and Resistance aren't that hot anymore IMO..

but really, if they just even hint at The Last Guardian, that would the best scenario possible  



> Backwards compatibility would be nice, too, since that's a huge flaw the PS3 and the Vita share.



needs to be region-free too



Asakuna no Senju said:


> *Oh shit*
> 
> Bgassasin is confirming the no-used game/always online policy on the Xbox 720 EDGE article thread. Oh lord.
> 
> ...



my TV is screaming for a WiiU to be plugged in it right now 

if this shit goes through, think i really might go for a PC investment or just wait for the steambox or whatever..

PC+Nintendo is okay by me  




Shirker said:


> I dunno, I think it's a reasonabe policy that can be put into place if the developers are, like, really mad at used games. It's a better alternative than the rumored "brick them altogether" thing, and it assures that the developers get a cut of the used game market.
> 
> It's not something I feel should be applied to all games, but when it is applied to a game, I'd have no harsh feelings toward it. *shrugs*





Inuhanyou said:


> Same. tis the "lesser of two evils" that i'm advocating for. If they are so concerned about money, then just do that. but of course sales aren't the real issue for them. they want to control the market entirely not just profit from it.
> 
> That's the angle that will kill this industry. No competition just means bad news for you and me



this talk enforces shit games.. if devs are bitching about used game markets.. than they should just work their asses off into making great-excellent games so people would just buy them and *KEEP THEM*.. 

I sold my fair share of games this gen, but i kept the great ones regardless if i finished them or not.. since there's always the possibility of the game not being available later down the road.. 

there's also that thing where people would just buy on it's first week if it was that great..


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 13, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> Have there ever been exceptions to less competitions still doing well? Like the NES, GBA (i think), & the PS2 for instance. I'm not saying having no competition is the best thing for the market though.





Different situations. Back then you didn't have a way to fuck people over by controlling their hardware and software through service based applications from far away. It was a more innocent time in the console landscape. When these things were viewed through a less corporate lens.

Now its all about your money being exchanged for a service that you should be grateful to receive(that can be taken away at any time) instead of your money being exchanged for product that publishers are grateful you considered worth your money (that they have no right to take away).


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 13, 2013)

Shirker said:


> I dunno, I think it's a reasonabe policy that can be put into place if the developers are, like, really mad at used games. It's a better alternative than the rumored "brick them altogether" thing, and it assures that the developers get a cut of the used game market.
> 
> It's not something I feel should be applied to all games, but when it is applied to a game, I'd have no harsh feelings toward it. *shrugs*



Online passes are practically the same damn thing.


Inuhanyou said:


> Same. tis the "lesser of two evils" that i'm advocating for. If they are so concerned about money, then just do that. but of course sales aren't the real issue for them. they want to control the market entirely not just profit from it.
> 
> That's the angle that will kill this industry. No competition just means bad news for you and me



I'll slap you.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 13, 2013)

How are online passes the same? Atleast you can play the games themselves, although the multiplayer portion is blocked off. By paying a fraction of the asking price, those features will be reinstated. 

That's a lot different from simply killing off the used market.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 13, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> How are online passes the same? Atleast you can play the games themselves, although the multiplayer portion is blocked off. By paying a fraction of the asking price, those features will be reinstated.
> 
> That's a lot different from simply killing off the used market.



DRM is DRM.
We already have several unplayable games because of this shit.


----------



## Shirker (Feb 13, 2013)

Khris said:


> I sold my fair share of games this gen, but i kept the great ones regardless if i finished them or not.. since there's always the possibility of the game not being available later down the road..
> 
> there's also that thing where people would just buy on it's first week if it was that great..



Thing is, that's not an exact science, what with tastes and shit. 

As long as there's the ability to sell your stuff in some form, there will be people willing to sell it for a few extra duckets. I can go on Amazon right now and get a used copy of The Orange Box. *The Orange Box*! A collection of 3 games with fanbases that are as frothy-mouthed about a product as you can get without crossing into territory featuring multi-colored equines.

If _that_ can get sold 2nd hand, _anything_ can.



Unlosing Ranger said:


> Online passes are practically the same damn thing.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 13, 2013)

"Boy I sure love being fucked up the ass the companies have a right to do so"


----------



## Shirker (Feb 13, 2013)




----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 13, 2013)




----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 13, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> "Boy I sure love being fucked up the ass the companies have a right to do so"



Nobody here is insinuating that any of this shit is fine. But mitigating the damage is priority one.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 13, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Nobody here is insinuating that any of this shit is fine. But mitigating the damage is priority one.


Hold the line.


----------



## Shirker (Feb 13, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


>







Inuhanyou said:


> Nobody here is insinuating that any of this shit is fine. But mitigating the damage is priority one.



Basically. In a perfect world, the second any type of DRM that inconveniences the consumer is brought up, the company would see a huge dip in sales because nobody buys the game that houses it. We don't live in that world. So, if games are gonna implement them, then compared to stuff like the 3-install-limit, the "always online" rumors or the "No used game. Period" rumors, the online pass is nothing more than a slap on the wrist. If that.

*shrugs* I've got a photobucket full of reaction shots and my well of shits to give about this discussion has run drier the USA in the early 1930's, so if ya wanna keep on, keepin' on, then keep on with it. But I'm done, brah.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 13, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]kwHgqQYlGWQ[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## DedValve (Feb 13, 2013)

Online passes suck just as hard. Why choose the lesser of two evils when there are other ways to stem used gaming and game more profit by not treating the customer like shit? 

Give benefits to those who buy games new (similar to what Mass Effect 2 did) rather than just penalize people who are on a tight budget with hidden costs (the average consumer does not know about online passes until they already bought it, it's not exactly advertised on the box...).

If there is going to be stuff like Microtransactions make it where it can actually benefit the game (mass effect 3 gets free DLC because of microtransactions and is a good way of how it should be done, unlike in a game like dead space where it really has no place and won't benefit the game at all) rather than just trying to jew a customer out of their cash why not incentivize them with plenty of genuinely good benefits (the "incentives" of xbox live gold for example is a HORRIBLE way of doing this).  There are plenty of games that have done it and has plenty of success for doing it. 

Being treated like shit and allowing it is what makes this industry so...shitty.


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## Canute87 (Feb 13, 2013)

And Imagine people want Nintendo out of the business.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 13, 2013)

Shirker said:


> Thing is, that's not an exact science, what with tastes and shit.
> 
> As long as there's the ability to sell your stuff in some form, there will be people willing to sell it for a few extra duckets. I can go on Amazon right now and get a used copy of The Orange Box. *The Orange Box*! A collection of 3 games with fanbases that are as frothy-mouthed about a product as you can get without crossing into territory featuring multi-colored equines.
> 
> If _that_ can get sold 2nd hand, _anything_ can.



i am not saying excellent games wont get sold.. but the probability is less right?

i just feel it's a lazy way out IMO.. i mean, why aren't movie companies fighting used or rented movie sales?


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## Velocity (Feb 13, 2013)

Khris said:


> i am not saying excellent games wont get sold.. but the probability is less right?
> 
> i just feel it's a lazy way out IMO.. i mean, why aren't movie companies fighting used or rented movie sales?



'Cause of cinema sales. Successful movies count their profits in nine figures and that's before Bluray sales, etc., so used sales don't affect them at all. videogames don't have that luxury, sadly.


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## Malvingt2 (Feb 13, 2013)

*EA expects their total annual dev costs to go up less than $100 million next-gen*



> The cost of a new console transition
> 
> "Historical transitions have been bumpy for a few reasons. One reason has been that a lot of the companies had too many titles. We had way too many titles in the last transition, and the more titles you have, the more expensive it is to convert them from one generation to the next.
> 
> "We're much more focused now. We've got a core group of ten-to-fifteen titles. We'll stage those in terms of the transition and manage those costs through that. Our goal is to keep the cost increase for R&D under $100 million. And some of that will be in this year, some of that in '14, and some in our fiscal year '15.


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## αshɘs (Feb 13, 2013)

Asakuna no Senju said:


> I'm been hearing a lot of great things about them and Steam, are Valve really _that_ good? Maybe i should try it sometime.



I got into Steam last year and so far I'm liking it a lot. The prices and sales are great and you can visit GMG and Amazon for even better deals. Having a library of games which you can use on any machine is convenient. Additional content for games is very easy to install and use thanks to Workshop. 
It's not perfect of course. The client could use an overhaul both performance and design wise. Constant internet connectivity can be a bother. Greenlight hasn't turned out well so far (they might even axe it). And from what I hear regarding their customer service and curation process it seems as if Valve should hire a dedicated group to handle these.

As for Valve, they're a pretty exciting company. They have a flat hierarchy and basically do whatever they feel like doing. Their projects are community driven, they provide the tools and encourage the gamers to create their own content. Unlike other yearly franchises focused on multi which get obsolete quick, their games last for years. And coupled that with their microtransaction system gamers make actual money with it, money that can reach 5 or 6 figures a year. I wished they'd concentrate more single player and the HL series though, but going with Gabe's comment, NextSource and HL are actually in development, so we'll see how that turns out.

Depending on your machine you could jump in with some f2p stuff like TF2, Dota2 or PlanetSide 2 and get temped with the prices later


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 13, 2013)

Velocity said:


> 'Cause of cinema sales. Successful movies count their profits in nine figures and that's before Bluray sales, etc., so used sales don't affect them at all. videogames don't have that luxury, sadly.



one can choose between cinema and bluray though.. i can just not see the movie in the cinema and rent it later when it comes out on bluray..

same logic IMO..


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## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

I'm baffled by someone who just used Mass Effect 2 as an example of treating new and used games "right" when it was basically an online pass still... and the day-one content that people always bitch about.

Swimming in hypocrisy.


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## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

Jeri Ellsworth still hasn't spoken more on being fired from Valve. 

At least she won't be unemployed for long, just like Sess.

EDIT: Seems like around 25 employees have been let go from Valve.



> A number of employees have been laid off at Valve. News first broke via the Twitter account of engineer Jeri Ellsworth, who wrote “yup. Got fired today. Time for new exciting projects.”
> 
> According to a report from Gamasutra, Ellsworth is one of several employees let go today as part of a “great cleansing” and “large decisions” within the company, and the layoffs were based on changes in the company rather than performance issues.
> 
> ...


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## αshɘs (Feb 13, 2013)

People over at gaf are already jumping to conclusions. One thing I'm almost sure of, Valve won't comment on this, just leave us in the dark with speculations 

I'm going to assume this all happened for efficiency reasons.


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## EvilMoogle (Feb 13, 2013)

There's a fair chance that they're contractually prohibited from discussing why they were terminated.

Though Valve deciding they don't need hardware people anymore says some pretty specific things about the future of Steambox.


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## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

EvilMoogle said:


> Though Valve deciding they don't need hardware people anymore says some pretty specific things about the future of Steambox.



Oh good, I wasn't the only one thinking this.


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## αshɘs (Feb 13, 2013)

Or maybe it's controller related, since they've been working on different solutions for a while. Also it's not just hardware people, but Android people too according to the article.


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## DedValve (Feb 13, 2013)

Krory said:


> I'm baffled by someone who just used Mass Effect 2 as an example of treating new and used games "right" when it was basically an online pass still... and the day-one content that people always bitch about.
> 
> Swimming in hypocrisy.



lol mrorh if you gonna call me out then call me out. Other than zaeed everything in the Cerberus network was dlc made after the game that was free for people who bought new, whereas people who bought used could still play the game in its entirety and not be punished. Online passess PUNISHES customers for buying used rather than incentivize customers with benefits for buying new. How you can compare the two is honestly beyond me.

other than stupid on disc preorder shit customers who buy new should be given benefits but customers who buy used should not be punished. Mass effect was 1 example of this.


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## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

And the Normandy Crash.

Two day-one DLCs. Games that have one, people demand their heads on sticks - namely you. You really need to keep your stories straight. And a number of later DLC (including Kasumi - who was also found on disc) went _through_ Cerberus Network. So for a used game you would need to by Cerberus Network and then Kasumi.


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## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> Or maybe it's controller related, since they've been working on different solutions for a while. Also it's not just hardware people, but Android people too according to the article.



Ellsworth was said to be working on controller interfaces for the Steambox, yeah, according to an article from .

This _could_ mean that it's done and ready to ship and they're confident they won't need employees in the division anymore so they Gabe Newell just sat on them until they agreed to leave.


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## αshɘs (Feb 13, 2013)

another twist. Jason Holtman (director if business) left too


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## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

Shit just got realz, mang.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 13, 2013)

In other news, Ueda hinted at Last Guardian re appearance ahead of PS4 launch O_O


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## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> In other news, Ueda hinted at Last Guardian re appearance ahead of PS4 launch O_O



Yeah, I posted this in the Last Guardian thread. Interesting to hear Sony's been sitting on stuff apparently.

February 20th?


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## αshɘs (Feb 13, 2013)

aaand



> been just informed from a friend of mine who knows them:
> 
> Moby Francke, the art lead of TF2, is gone
> Bay Raitt (lead of SFM) is gone too



umm should this get its own thread now?


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 13, 2013)

Uhm, holy shit i think so


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## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

Holy fuck. First a genius like Ellsworth... now this?

Well... not now. Since I'm sure it all happened simultaneously but I believe Jeri was the first to announce she was let go.


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## Malvingt2 (Feb 13, 2013)

Valve is falling? O_o


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## Deathbringerpt (Feb 13, 2013)

> Moby Francke, the art lead of TF2, is gone



Ok, now I'm getting worried. So far it was only hardware developers and business suits getting canned, nothing that they can't fix. But when people of actual importance in the game development teams start to go away, it's when I start to worry about the quality of their games.


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## dream (Feb 13, 2013)

Malvingt2 said:


> Valve is falling? O_o



Let's not get ahead of ourselves.


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## Malvingt2 (Feb 13, 2013)

Solaris said:


> Let's not get ahead of ourselves.



Is like a domino effects, you just need one piece to fall and the rest is history..


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## Deathbringerpt (Feb 13, 2013)

Malvingt2 said:


> *Is like a domino effects*, you just need one piece to fall and the rest is history..



Except it's nothing even close to that. We can start worrying about the company going to shit when Gaben dies.

Kinda like Nintendo and Miyamoto.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 13, 2013)

Maybe they will hire me


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## dream (Feb 13, 2013)

Malvingt2 said:


> Is like a domino effects, you just need one piece to fall and the rest is history..



When someone like Lombardi leaves or a quarter or more of the employees leave then you can start to panic.


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## Malvingt2 (Feb 13, 2013)

Now seriously, wth is going on Valve?


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## dream (Feb 13, 2013)

Malvingt2 said:


> Now seriously, wth is going on Valve?



Valve/Gabe/Doug are probably just getting rid of the people that they don't see as being necessary to the future of Valve or those that conflict with it.


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## Malvingt2 (Feb 13, 2013)

> Moby Francke, Half-Life 2 character designer and Team Fortress 2 art lead
> Jason Holtman, director of business development for Steam and Steamworks
> Keith Huggins, character animator and animator for Team Fortress 2 “Meet the” video series
> Tom Leonard, software engineer for Half-Life 2 and Left 4 Dead
> ...




so....


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## αshɘs (Feb 13, 2013)

> Garry’s Mod creator Garry Newman tweets the appearance of a number of differences on Valve’s staff page seen through Diff Checker. The comparison tool indicates the removal of nine employee bios from the People section of Valve’s company page, listed below:
> 
> Moby Francke, Half-Life 2 character designer and Team Fortress 2 art lead
> Jason Holtman, director of business development for Steam and Steamworks
> ...



o_o


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## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

Maybe I'm just not "down" with Valve, but that sounds a little worrisome to me.


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## dream (Feb 13, 2013)

Open a new thread about it guys, this is the PS4/Durango thread.


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## Furious George (Feb 13, 2013)

Malvingt2 said:


> Valve is falling? O_o



You shut your filthy whore mouth.


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## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

Weren't there like two people saying they were gonna make a new thread?

I've already made like forty-three threads in the past week.

Someone else do some fucking work for a change.


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## DedValve (Feb 13, 2013)

Krory said:


> And the Normandy Crash.
> 
> Two day-one DLCs. Games that have one, people demand their heads on sticks - namely you. You really need to keep your stories straight. And a number of later DLC (including Kasumi - who was also found on disc) went _through_ Cerberus Network. So for a used game you would need to by Cerberus Network and then Kasumi.



Kasumi had nothing to do with the cerby network, you had to buy her regardless if you had it or not. Again like I said me2 was one way of doing it by offering incentives over punishment, you didn't need the firewalker packs or bonus weapons released over time but they where benefits, mea while you weren't locked out of half the game just because you didn't buy new. This is made even worse when there are hidden costs to FULLY play your game yet gamestop tries to keep the average consumer as ignorant as possible to this by heavily emphasizing trading and buying used.

I'm not denying that me2 didn't have on disc dlc, me3 had it too to a much worse degree but at least aside from that there was dlc that was genuinly (as far as we know anyways) made after the game, so you would still play all of me2 (minus 2 squaddies) regardless what condition you bought the game.

the worst part is that if these consoles are anti used, it won't do anything to stem the ridiculously high prices, on disc dlc, slow price drops, pre order bonuses and micro transactions. Next Gen (well technically this Gen since wiiU is out) is shaping up to be very anti consumer.

Edit: wtf the thread jumps 2 pages all about valve layoffs!


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## αshɘs (Feb 13, 2013)

I only asked if this this should get its own thread, I didn't say I would make it 

But if no one else wants to make it, then fine, I'll make it.

edit: George to the rescue


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## Furious George (Feb 13, 2013)

Valve thread done.


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## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

Thanks for doing something for once, Georgie.


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## Tazmo (Feb 13, 2013)

This thread is now closed it has a continuation thread *Here*


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