# OP Complaint Thread



## Soca (Jul 5, 2022)

For the past couple of months or so there’s been an extremely large influx of complaining and distaste about the series quality. Almost every week it’s always the same comments or threads about the quality dropping or the new trend where everyone just says “it’s almost as if oda’s a bad writer” and so on. I’m not gonna say they’re all not true but as it stands, these comments aren’t bringing any real value or discussion to the section.

So after some talks with the rest of the staff we decided to make a general complaint thread for those comments. This isn’t to say that every complaint will be linked here of course. We understand sometimes there’s gonna be original things in chapters that are gonna be looked at more critically than others, so whenever that happens cats would be allowed to make threads on those specific issues. But for everything else tho, they’ll go into the general complaint thread.

Ultimately the goal here is to bring back civil and balanced discussion to the OL Section because as it stands it’s just an echo chamber of almost everyone saying everything sucks, which isn’t a healthy or fun environment to post in. The other side effect is that it’s been bringing in a lot more trolls to breath more life into negative atmosphere which again isn’t healthy, because at the of the day the section is meant for everyone to have fun and enjoy talking about things in a positive manner and have fun. Hopefully everyone understand this and maybe one day there’ll be a good enough balance to where this thread won’t be needed anymore

Reactions: Like 3 | Friendly 4 | Creative 1 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 2


----------



## TheTwelfthKenpachi (Jul 5, 2022)

I see, fair enough

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## KBD (Jul 5, 2022)

nobody has broken this in yet? damn. 

let me do the honors then, fuck one piece and fuck Oda for not giving my boy Kaido a proper flashback. also fuck the it will be disappointing if it ends in a big punch bit, I mean it makes sense but given that you said that at first Oda...  

also the whole thing with creating open ended plotpoints and mysteries that never seem to get a conclusion is kind of ass. 

I hope he ties the threads in his mind brain on his vacation and really gets to putting them together in the last arc. 

fucking, who spoke to Crocus in the cover? you bitch, you tell me right now. 

- rant over

Reactions: Like 5 | Funny 3


----------



## KBD (Jul 5, 2022)

@Shrike come help the thread kick off, I know you have a few takes of your own...

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Nello (Jul 5, 2022)

I'm tired of cats talking shit about OL mods when threads like this show that they care more than 99% of mods out there

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## January (Jul 5, 2022)

my complaints are with the lack of chapters and lack of chadmirals being taken seriously

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## KBD (Jul 5, 2022)

my complaint is about @January

Reactions: Funny 5


----------



## Captain Quincy (Jul 5, 2022)

my complaint is about @January

Reactions: Funny 4


----------



## January (Jul 5, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


----------



## Captain Quincy (Jul 5, 2022)

Call me optimistic if you want but I'm hopeful that people will become generally more positive about the series as we move on from Kaido and Big Mom.

Just thinking about it, they have been the overarching villains of the story since Fishman Island over a decade ago. Basically all of the arcs most consider as the bottom barrel of the series. And I know they have their fans but regardless of that, I feel like most have just gotten worn out from them especially at this point.

We are now moving on to characters that have been hyped and set up since Pre-TS like Akainu and Blackbeard. I know Kaido and Big Mom technically were too, but barely compared to guys like the previously mentioned. But my point is I feel like people will be willing to be more relaxed about the story, and just looking forward to things a lot more in general with characters like them as the major focus now.

Also Post-TS seems to have tempered a lot of people's expectations, which can only be good for positivity.

Reactions: Like 3 | Optimistic 1


----------



## KBD (Jul 5, 2022)

now my complaint is about @Captain Quincy

Reactions: Funny 8 | GODA 1


----------



## TheTwelfthKenpachi (Jul 5, 2022)

KBD said:


> nobody has broken this in yet? damn.
> 
> let me do the honors then, fuck one piece and fuck Oda for not giving my boy Kaido a proper flashback. also fuck the it will be disappointing if it ends in a big punch bit, I mean it makes sense but given that you said that at first Oda...
> 
> ...


Kaido had a lot of potential but ended up being kind of wasted (just like his arc itself, lel).
I think he's a contendant for least good major villain. Which is a shame  considering he's pretty cool; he's a neat character done dirty by Oda.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Friendly 1


----------



## MrPopo (Jul 5, 2022)

Captain Quincy said:


> Call me optimistic if you want but I'm hopeful that people will become generally more positive about the series as we move on from Kaido and Big Mom.
> 
> Just thinking about it, they have been the overarching villains of the story since Fishman Island over a decade ago. Basically all of the arcs most consider as the bottom barrel of the series. And I know they have their fans but regardless of that, I feel like most have just gotten worn out from them especially at this point.
> 
> ...


Give it time and alot of people will look back at Wano alot better it already happened with the all the other post-ts arcs

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## AceBizzle (Jul 5, 2022)

I think Oda taking a month long break is 99% proof that even HE feels like the series quality is sub-par.  No debating that.

I feel like the biggest problem with One Piece, and problem with most shonen, is the "Sun Wukong/Goku/main character".
Luffy is the problem.  

Luffy being the "dumb, cheeky underdog that is actually the chosen one" is played out. 
We're tired of that s***.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3 | Winner 1


----------



## Rob (Jul 5, 2022)

Sorry Marc, gonna' have to lock this one. I much prefer the OL spammed with threads about stuff like this.

We don't have just one OP-wank thread, c'mon now.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Shrike (Jul 5, 2022)

KBD said:


> @Shrike come help the thread kick off, I know you have a few takes of your own...


Bruv you don't know. I've been too busy irl to shit on the manga and didn't want to be the negative nancy all the time, but from the moment G5 appeared that was it for me. Can't wait to shoot everything I have here, it's gonna be a thermonuclear warhead

Reactions: Funny 5


----------



## T.D.A (Jul 5, 2022)

Kaido got a couple of pages of backstory, that's it.

Oda rushed the ending of the the Wano war.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Nathan Copeland (Jul 6, 2022)

AceBizzle said:


> I think Oda taking a month long break is 99% proof that even HE feels like the series quality is sub-par.  No debating that.
> 
> I feel like the biggest problem with One Piece, and problem with most shonen, is the "Sun Wukong/Goku/main character".
> Luffy is the problem.
> ...


Man that mother fucker take a break every other week and the writing still sucks 

We just got to accept. One piece pre-skip and one piece time skip is two different mangas. 

All I just saying is whoever was the editor during Thriller bark-Impel Down oda need his ass back asap

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## MrPopo (Jul 6, 2022)

Wano has the weirdest pacing of any arc is it both rushed and slow at the same time

Reactions: Agree 8 | Winner 1


----------



## Nathan Copeland (Jul 6, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Wano has the weirdest pacing of any arc is it both rushed and slow at the same time


Shit is legit mind blowing oda showed the fucking kozuki castle burning like 15 times, Kaido got that short ass flashback

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Strobacaxi (Jul 6, 2022)

AceBizzle said:


> I think Oda taking a month long break is 99% proof that even HE feels like the series quality is sub-par. No debating that.


So you think Oda looked back at SA-ID-MF and thought "Nah this shit is sub-par i need myself a month long break to gather my thoughts"?

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


----------



## Saitama (Jul 6, 2022)

One Piece sucks, the focus on the secondary characters is killing me. The arcs feel all over the place.

Damn you Oda 

Just joking, but there is some truth to these statements.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Incognitos (Jul 6, 2022)

The Nika asspull has made me no longer interested in the straw hats and I only continue to read because of kid.

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Luffy (Jul 6, 2022)

Fuck Kozuki Oden 

One of the worst characters in all of One Piece

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## Conxc (Jul 7, 2022)

I’ll limit this to my Wano complaints for now:

Nika

Shit pacing per usual

Lack of notable Haki feats from commanders

Kaido’s rushed backstory

lack of an impactful death

No Jack vs Jinbe or any kind of real showcase for Jack

no meaningful development for the W3 or Brook

Queen being a goof

King not having CoC

Continuously attempting to ruin a great character like Yamato by hbd g her want to be Oden

no Zoan awakening, at least not explicitly

I’m sure I missed some

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 7, 2022)

TheTwelfthKenpachi said:


> Kaido had a lot of potential but ended up being kind of wasted (just like his arc itself, lel).
> I think he's a contendant for least good major villain. Which is a shame  considering he's pretty cool; he's a neat character done dirty by Oda.


Looking at Kaido in retrospect, it's almost as if he's a favored kid whose given lots of props by the parent, spoiled being given all the best clothes, toys, etc. Then once the kid turns out spoiled the parent suddenly wants to be harsh and strict at the last minute and then disowns them when they can't control the kid.

Oda went out of his way to hype up Kaido more than any other character since Roger, constantly shoving it down our throats about how great he is. But if you notice, as soon as we get to wano, Kaido's characterization was rushed. Oda literally spent more time focusing on backstories for characters such as Tama, Orochi, the scabbards, Oden, etc then time he spent just letting us see _who_ Kaido is. Almost every Kaido scene is meant to show how cruel he is or is a combat scene.

For fuck's sake Oda, 95% of your villains are cruel, overwhelmingly strong bastards. Not only do those traits sum up 95% of Kaido's personality, he isn't even the most well written when it comes to that. Arlong laughing while ripping Nami off when she cried stabbing herself thinking she could free her village was a gut wrenching moment more compelling than anything we saw Kaido do. Even the more recent Doflamingo was a more well written and understandable villain with a somewhat complex backstory.

The closer we got to the end of the raid, the more obvious it was Oda viewed Kaido as a mere benchmark for Luffy to surpass and stopped caring. Shitty rushed backstory, no awakening, no explanation for his cryptic statements about wano, no elaboration on the oni race, the equivalent of bread crumbs for the god valley incident, absolutely no information about his alcoholism and suicidal tendencies (pretty big fucking deal), etc. Even the finale of the fight was lackluster and rushed. He set the expectations way too high and gave the character way too many layers. The biggest issue is we KNEW Oda could write better.

Oda had several Freudian slips such as when he seemingly admitted he "made Kaido too strong" or that he "doesn't know how Kaido will be defeated" or when he said that he "knows fans won't be satisfied with one big punch".

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 4


----------



## Beyonce (Jul 7, 2022)

Oh just know if Hancock loses to koby I’m gonna be typing up a STORM in here….

Reactions: Funny 5


----------



## MrPopo (Jul 7, 2022)

Beyonce said:


> Oh just know if Hancock loses to koby I’m gonna be typing up a STORM in here….


Get typing because it's going to happen

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Conxc (Jul 7, 2022)

I add @MrPopo to my list of complaints

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## MrPopo (Jul 7, 2022)

Conxc said:


> I add @MrPopo to my list of complaints


You didn't like Luffy being compared to Ryuma   


Or captain Koby capturing Hancock

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Conxc (Jul 7, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> You didn't like Luffy being compared to Ryuma
> 
> 
> Or captain Koby capturing Hancock


I don’t mind *******Joyboy *being compared to Ryuuma  but there’s no way Captain Crybaby took down Boa


----------



## MrPopo (Jul 7, 2022)

Conxc said:


> I don’t mind *******Joyboy *being compared to Ryuuma  but there’s no way Captain Crybaby took down Boa


Maybe in two piece but in one piece Koby took down Boa

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2


----------



## AceBizzle (Jul 7, 2022)

Nathan Copeland said:


> Man that mother fucker take a break every other week and the writing still sucks
> 
> We just got to accept. One piece pre-skip and one piece time skip is two different mangas.
> 
> *All I just saying is whoever was the editor during Thriller bark-Impel Down oda need his ass back asap*


Preach 


Strobacaxi said:


> So you think Oda looked back at SA-ID-MF and thought "*Nah this shit is sub-par i need myself a month long break to gather my thoughts*"?


Yeah! Either that or his editors told him it was subpar and he needs to take a month long break to gather his thoughts 


MrAnalogies said:


> Looking at Kaido in retrospect, it's almost as if he's a favored kid whose given lots of props by the parent, spoiled being given all the best clothes, toys, etc. Then once the kid turns out spoiled the parent suddenly wants to be harsh and strict at the last minute and then disowns them when they can't control the kid.
> 
> Oda went out of his way to hype up Kaido more than any other character since Roger, constantly shoving it down our throats about how great he is. But if you notice, as soon as we get to wano, Kaido's characterization was rushed. Oda literally spent more time focusing on backstories for characters such as Tama, Orochi, the scabbards, Oden, etc then time he spent just letting us see _who_ Kaido is. Almost every Kaido scene is meant to show how cruel he is or is a combat scene.
> 
> ...


Preach!!! This response is perfect!

Reactions: Friendly 1


----------



## Mickey Mouse (Jul 8, 2022)

This fucking section. From its mods to it's posters.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## MrPopo (Jul 10, 2022)

Re-reading wano it makes no sense that Kidd just dropped Kaido and went to fight Big mom  

Or how he hasn't killed Apoo yet

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## KBD (Jul 10, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Re-reading wano it makes no sense that Kidd just dropped Kaido and went to fight Big mom
> 
> Or how he hasn't killed Apoo yet


makes perfect sense. dudes a pussy

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## MrPopo (Jul 10, 2022)

Re-reading wano Oda messed up big time with the raid he dragged out the onigashma way to long. The same thing happened with Dressrossa

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## KBD (Jul 10, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Re-reading wano Oda messed up big time with the raid he dragged out the onigashma way to long. The same thing happened with Dressrossa


what do you mean, like flying the island itself as a plotdevice like birdcage?


----------



## MrPopo (Jul 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> what do you mean, like flying the island itself as a plotdevice like birdcage?


Nah the arc is just too long with alot of fluff like Dressrosa. 

Edit Oda also somehow made it feel rushed at the same time

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Nathan Copeland (Jul 12, 2022)

Yeah wano dragged out for too damn long the entire fake Oden plot, kanjuro, orochi, Luffy Punch kaido end chapter just


----------



## Karma (Jul 12, 2022)

Nika reveal is hot garbage and ive liked most of post ts

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 14, 2022)

The "road to laugh tale" data books have flat out stated that Zoan awakenings do 3 things:

1-they make the user much more durable and physically stronger
2-they make the user's personality "duller".
3-they allow the user to recover quickly after being defeated/knocked out 

The fact they used the jailer beasts confirms what we've already known for years, that if a Zoan awakens they become something of a reckless berserker and have diminished intellect. This absolutely did _not_ happen with Kaido. He kept his wits throughout the entire raid. He did _not_ get up after being knocked out by Luffy. Therefore, *Kaido either doesn't have awakening despite knowing about it (which is shocking and hard to believe) or he had it and chose not to use it for some bizarre reason.*

Those are pretty much the only options unless Kaido drinking somehow activated his awakening by making his personality "duller". He did seem to look a bit different in his drunk form (much bulkier, seemed more powerful and durable) but it's equally possible this was simply another combat form Kaido had. Chopper and Lucci have about half a dozen forms so why not Kaido?

Regardless, Oda has got some explaining to do and it looks more and more like poor writing the more information we get.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4 | Useful 1


----------



## Gitagon (Jul 14, 2022)

Kaido and Big Mom obviously aren't dead. So we could always see Kaido's awakening later. And Oda could easily explain the reason he didn't use it. Maybe something like his reduced intellect would interfere with his other powers such as the flame clouds that were keeping the island afloat.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Cursemark (Jul 14, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> The "road to laugh tale" data books have flat out stated that Zoan awakenings do 3 things:
> 
> 1-they make the user much more durable and physically stronger
> 2-they make the user's personality "duller".
> ...


No one ever said or hinted that Kaido had awakened his powers so I struggle to see how it's a case of bad writing. Croc knows about awakening as well but he also never showed one as far as we know.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 14, 2022)

Cursemark said:


> No one ever said or hinted that Kaido had awakened his powers so I struggle to see how it's a case of bad writing. Croc knows about awakening as well but he also never showed one as far as we know.


It's shitty writing.

-He was literally lecturing Luffy about how awakening works and went into great detail.
-He's a yonko
-He's the "king of beasts" and has a literal army of zoans.
-his own flunky Doflamingo has awakening.

Reactions: Agree 8


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 14, 2022)

Gitagon said:


> Maybe something like his reduced intellect would interfere with his other powers such as the


This is plausible but it also basically confirms Kaido was sandbagging the whole time if true.


----------



## luffy no haki (Jul 14, 2022)

Pretty much what Cursemark said. People here assume lots of things as obvious and then just fume when it doesnt happen, there is bad writing in One Piece but not showing something never hinted at isnt among it.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## VileNotice (Jul 14, 2022)

Oda should’ve just had the flame clouds lifting Onigashima be his awakening, and then he could’ve absorbed them for his final flame dragon attack. Just like Bigger Mom could’ve been her awakening.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Creative 1


----------



## Utopia Realm (Jul 14, 2022)

Him not having an awakening was terrible imho. He has CoC/CoA/CoC, multiple Zoan tranformations, near DF mastery and ridiculous stats. I would rather him not have a Zoan DF at all if he wasn't gonna show it in the 1st place.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Jul 14, 2022)

He did change form quite a bit with his drunken Bagua style. He got significantly more muscular and his personality was all over the place. His eyebrows even began looking somewhat like Nika Luffy’s and his nose changed.

If that’s his awakening I would be satisfied with it.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 14, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> He did change form quite a bit with his drunken Bagua style. He got significantly more muscular and his personality was all over the place. His eyebrows even began looking somewhat like Nika Luffy’s and his nose changed.
> 
> If that’s his awakening I would be satisfied with it.


Me too, but Oda should have said so if that's what it was. I cringe awaiting the possibility Oda just says "aww shucks, yeah that was Kaidos awakening XD" in an SBS answer. Convenient story update DLC is all it is.


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 14, 2022)

luffy no haki said:


> Pretty much what Cursemark said. People here assume lots of things as obvious and then just fume when it doesnt happen, there is bad writing in One Piece but not showing something never hinted at isnt among it.


Not everything should be hinted at when expectations are this high lol.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## spawn3 (Jul 14, 2022)

There should have been a mention, no matter which direction it was. 

"I have awakened my fruit."
"I haven't awakened my fruit yet." 
"My fruit does not have an awakening."

Any of these instead of nothing lol.
But it's done this way on purpose: to generate pointless conversations among readers.


----------



## 9TalesOfDestruction (Jul 14, 2022)

The issue is he has a Mythic Zoan and those awakening traits are specifically for normal zoans.  So the only Mythic awakening we have is Luffy right now.  I think Awakening a Mythic Zoan may be on another level than even Kaido or someone of that level could do and makes luffy special in that regard(especially since his is a God version).

My guess is that a mythic Zoan has a sentient personality that would require a greater synchronicity between the user and the DF.  His dragon fruit might not like him being a homicidal maniac for instance.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 14, 2022)

9TalesOfDestruction said:


> The issue is he has a Mythic Zoan and those awakening traits are specifically for normal zoans.  So the only Mythic awakening we have is Luffy right now.  I think Awakening a Mythic Zoan may be on another level than even Kaido or someone of that level could do and makes luffy special in that regard(especially since his is a God version).
> 
> My guess is that a mythic Zoan has a sentient personality that would require a greater synchronicity between the user and the DF.  His dragon fruit might not like him being a homicidal maniac for instance.


The manga already said all that



Kaido knows how awakening works. He complimented Luffy on being able to achieve it, just like he complimented him when Luffy figured out how to dodge the thunder bagua, when he figured out how to use conqueror's haki, etc. It's right in line with Kaido's character 

So thinking about it logically, why would Kaido praise Luffy for "harnessing the potential of his devil fruit ability" if he himself didn't do this??? The other things Kaido praised Luffy for, like using conqueror's haki, Kaido himself was able to do it. It doesn't make any sense. 

The last thing this manga needs is for Luffy to have yet another unique thing no one else has. He already has a rare mythical Zoan, why does he also get a unique awakening that Kaido is unable to do? How did a rookie clueless about awakening achieve synchronicity with his fruit and Kaido, an experienced and very knowledgeable veteran, has no synchronicity?

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 4


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 14, 2022)

To the people keep saying "iT wAsN't HiNtEd At", can you explain to me when the awakenings of

Doflamingo
Katakuri 
Law
Kidd

Were hinted at...?


----------



## trance (Jul 14, 2022)

he was clearly unfit to awaken duh

perhaps awakening just simply didn't interest him enough to actually attain; at the tail end of his fight with luffy, he expressed his opinion that haki triumphs over fruits despite having just commented like a chapter before how incredible luffy's awakening is


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 14, 2022)

trance said:


> he was clearly unfit to awaken duh
> 
> perhaps awakening just simply didn't interest him enough to actually attain; at the tail end of his fight with luffy, *he expressed his opinion that haki triumphs over fruits despite having just commented like a chapter before how incredible luffy's awakening is*


At this point either Kaido is suffering from bipolar disorder with short term memory loss, or Oda himself suffers from these conditions.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Conquistador (Jul 14, 2022)

What’s weird is that Oda could have simply made Kaido’s bloodthirsty mode his awakening and everyone would have accepted it

Changed his appearance: he gets buffer and his facial features become more draconic, check

Dulls his personality: its more similar to G5 in that he doesn’t become dumber but his personality becomes more chaotic, check

Quick recovery: first time he used it was when he blitzed Luffy immediately after eating an OKG + his boro breath, check

Reactions: Like 7


----------



## Cursemark (Jul 14, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> It's shitty writing.
> 
> -He was literally lecturing Luffy about how awakening works and went into great detail.


He's informed about it but that doesn't mean he has to have it himself. Great detail? His explanation of how awakenings occur was extremely vague and didn't really tell us anything. It happens when your mind and body catch up to your powers but what does that even mean? 


MrAnalogies said:


> -He's a yonko


None of the Yonko (Besides Luffy who had to literally die for it to happen)  have displayed an awakening including the WSM so the position itself means nothing in this context. 


MrAnalogies said:


> -He's the "king of beasts" and has a literal army of zoans.


His army of Zoans is why he's called that 


MrAnalogies said:


> -his own flunky Doflamingo has awakening.


Doflamingo himself said it was extremely rare for it to happen in the first place. We don't know he was able to do it. Again, awakening is an extremely vague concept.


----------



## trance (Jul 15, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> At this point either Kaido is suffering from bipolar disorder with short term memory loss, or Oda himself suffers from these conditions.


i mean, the man's near-constantly drunk

short-term memory loss would be pretty par for the course


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 15, 2022)

Cursemark said:


> He's informed about it but that doesn't mean he has to have it himself. Great detail? His explanation of how awakenings occur was extremely vague and didn't really tell us anything. It happens when your mind and body catch up to your


I'm not saying that it automatically means he has to have it himself if he can explain how it works. I'm saying why the fuck is the villain aware of a power-up, praises the main character for achieving it, and explains how it works if he doesn't have access to that power-up?



Cursemark said:


> None of the Yonko (Besides Luffy who had to literally die for it to happen) have displayed an awakening including the WSM so the position itself means nothing in this context.


The context is expectations. Kaido is hyped up as the strongest creature on the planet and a monster in combat. Luffy's last 2 major opponents had awakening.

Kaido has basically everything else, all 3 forms of haki including the advanced forms, a legendary fruit, legendary weapon, etc. *He was hyped up specifically for his endurance and how hard it is to kill him in his very first appearance* so you're actually way off claiming it wasn't remotely hinted at that he could have awakening. The only time we see zoans awaken was to show the jail beasts having amazing endurance and fighting spirit, which is what Kaidos entire personality is about.




Cursemark said:


> His army of Zoans is why he's called that


That's what I just said. Fodder zoans in impel down who were defeated by pre time skip Luffy had awakening. Kaido has a fucking army of zoans and no one in the entire crew has it. Again, you're blaming people for expecting at least 1 person would have it as if this is unreasonable.



Cursemark said:


> Doflamingo himself said it was extremely rare for it to happen in the first place. We don't know he was able to do it. Again, awakening is an extremely vague concept.


It would still be extremely rare if Kaido had it lol. Wano introduced DOZENS of new zoans rapidly increasing the number.

Nothing is vague about Zoan awakening. It allows the user to become stronger, tougher, and more resilient at the cost of mental awareness. It allows the user to get up and keep fighting after being KOd. Kaido himself gave explanations for how it works when we hadn't heard shit for over 200 chapters.

You claim it's not bad writing because it wasn't hinted at. Can you explain to me when Kidd, Law, Katakuri, or Doflamingo's awakenings were hinted at...?


----------



## Louis-954 (Jul 15, 2022)

There's nothing wrong with Kaido not having it. Awakening is rarer than CoC.

Not every character needs to have Awakening. Not every top tier needs to have every single top tier ability.


----------



## Seraphoenix (Jul 15, 2022)

Didn't Mingo say only certain devil fruits can awaken?


----------



## Jouninja (Jul 15, 2022)

My theory is he pulled a Kenpachi and didn't learn Awakening since he already had "too much power" and fights would be less fun if he had that powerup on hand. Either that, or Kaido was too lazy to learn it, OR he tried and couldn't since a Mythic is hard to awaken than other fruits.

If Kaido had awakening, I'd be hoping it'd look like a Dragonman where he loses his intellect, and it makes him twice or even thrice as tall as his base form. His club would now be a baton in his hands though, lol.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


----------



## Alex Payne (Jul 15, 2022)

To be fair - the first ever mention of Zoan Awakening is the guy without Awakening of his own(Croc) instantly recognizing and being familiar with the concept. So Kaido's comments and knowledge on Awakenings don't look weird even if he didn't experience it himself. I do agree though that the Zoan Awakening treatment in Wano was both a letdown and extremely weird. A couple of minor comments explaining that normal Zoan Awakening isn't always good because for example it reduces Haki-skills due to berserk state would have worked(it would've made basic Zoans suck even more though). Kaido specifically questioned Awakened Luffy's state of mind but we were again left wondering. Awakenings are like right next to Blackened Blades in terms of Oda unnecessarily not being clear.


----------



## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Jul 15, 2022)

its almost as if the manga isnt very well written

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


----------



## Admiral Akanezumi (Jul 15, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> There's nothing wrong with Kaido not having it. Awakening is rarer than CoC.


Source?

Even some random jailers at ID had awakening.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Bill1001 (Jul 15, 2022)

There was literally *518* Zoan on wano 
Yet only *one* awakend

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Cursemark (Jul 15, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> I'm not saying that it automatically means he has to have it himself if he can explain how it works. I'm saying why the fuck is the villain aware of a power-up, praises the main character for achieving it, and explains how it works if he doesn't have access to that power-up?


Kaido is nearly 60. He's experienced the the many of strongest people in the world since 15. Him being very knowledgeable about the inner workings of certain abilities without having it himself isn't surprising.


MrAnalogies said:


> The context is expectations. Kaido is hyped up as the strongest creature on the planet and a monster in combat. Luffy's last 2 major opponents had awakening.
> 
> Kaido has basically everything else, all 3 forms of haki including the advanced forms, a legendary fruit, legendary weapon, etc. *He was hyped up specifically for his endurance and how hard it is to kill him in his very first appearance* so you're actually way off claiming it wasn't remotely hinted at that he could have awakening. The only time we see zoans awaken was to show the jail beasts having amazing endurance and fighting spirit, which is what Kaidos entire personality is about.


Those are your assumptions and expectations of what he needed to have. It wasn't promised. Kaido having similar characteristics simply means he's that guy.


MrAnalogies said:


> That's what I just said. Fodder zoans in impel down who were defeated by pre time skip Luffy had awakening. Kaido has a fucking army of zoans and no one in the entire crew has it. Again, you're blaming people for expecting at least 1 person would have it as if this is unreasonable.


We don't know the stories of those guards. The could have been forcibly awakened through experiments, we don't know. My argument isn't that it's unreasonable. I myself wanted Kaido to have an awakened form.  My argument is that it isn't necessarily bad writing because he didn't.


MrAnalogies said:


> It would still be extremely rare if Kaido had it lol. Wano introduced DOZENS of new zoans rapidly increasing the number.
> 
> 
> Nothing is vague about Zoan awakening. It allows the user to become stronger, tougher, and more resilient at the cost of mental awareness. It allows the user to get up and keep fighting after being KOd. Kaido himself gave explanations for how it works when we hadn't heard shit for over 200 chapters.
> ...


We know what it does, how someone can attain it isn't very clear.

You're misinterpreting my comment about it not being hinted at. I was saying that because there was nothing in the story implying or indicating he had the ability or should have in the first place it's not a case of bad writing that he didn't have it. None of the others were expected to have it but didn't so it's not the same situation. The expectation came from the fans not the author.


----------



## Turrin (Jul 15, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> The "road to laugh tale" data books have flat out stated that Zoan awakenings do 3 things:
> 
> 1-they make the user much more durable and physically stronger
> 2-they make the user's personality "duller".
> ...


Kaidou probably just wasn’t mentally in sync enough with his DF to awaken it. With the Jailer beasts it’s easier to Awaken them because they are just basic Zoan. While the Dragon DF is probably more sentient and self aware like the Nika Fruit


----------



## Eustathios (Jul 15, 2022)

Mythical Zoans are probably the hardest to awaken because they have a mind of their own and are a special class. Even Luffy's Awakening was weird.


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 15, 2022)

Cursemark said:


> Kaido is nearly 60. He's experienced the the many of strongest people in the world since 15. Him being very knowledgeable about the inner workings of certain abilities without having it himself isn't surprising.


You do realize that doesn't help your argument at all? Kaido is at the peak of fighting potential in the verse and praised Luffy for having awakening.

It would be like if Goku fought some extremely powerful veteran Saiyan villain who praised him for achieving super Saiyan, but the villain couldn't even transform. It would be strange.




Cursemark said:


> Those are your assumptions and expectations of what he needed to have. It wasn't promised. Kaido having similar characteristics simply means he's that guy.


Nowhere did I say it was promised.

Hyping up a ZOAN user for their strength, durability, and endurance and then deciding to NOT give them a power up that enhances those qualities is a strange writing decision no matter how you slice it. Especially because they know all a out said power up and praise people who have it.

You would think there'd at least be an explanation for why he doesn't have awakening or is choosing not to use it. Tons of people have said the same thing lol, you're acting like this is some fringe complaint hardly anyone has brought up so clearly many people had that expectation for a reason.




Cursemark said:


> We don't know the stories of those guards. The could have been forcibly awakened through experiments, we don't know. My argument isn't that it's unreasonable. I myself wanted Kaido to have an awakened form. My argument is that it isn't necessarily bad writing because he didn't.


This honestly doesn't help your case either. If the guards were awakened with experiments, why didn't the government do that to Kaido as well when he was captured and experimented on?




Cursemark said:


> You're misinterpreting my comment about it not being hinted at. I was saying that because there was nothing in the story implying or indicating he had the ability or should have in the first place it's not a case of bad writing that he didn't have it. None of the others were expected to have it but didn't so it's not the same situation. The


Let me put it another way.

When haki was introduced and Oda stressed the importance of having it to progress in the new world, he is automatically prepping the reader to expect that the stronger villains in upcoming sagas would have it. This has held true.

When Doflamingo had conqueror's haki, you expected that the yonko, who are literally conquerors with big egos, would have conqueror's haki. This has held true. Doffy is a mere schichibukai and basically an underling of Kaido.

When Katakuri had future sight, you once again expect that at least some of the yonko have it. He was a mere commander and we knew the yonko would be even more powerful fighters. Turns out, Kaido does actually have it.

The way Oda writes, he introduces a concept that leaves you expecting that the next villains will have even better mastery over the concept. You simply can't deny this. He even had Kaido himself praising awakening and, like the previous villains I mentioned, they had it so he is absolutely raising expectations. It's not as terrible as if Kaido didn't have haki, but it does raise an eyebrow. Because awakening would in fact improve Kaido as a fighter and you would think a guy whose all about getting stronger would pursue such a power up he is 100% aware of.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 15, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Kaidou probably just wasn’t mentally in sync enough with his DF to awaken it. With the Jailer beasts it’s easier to Awaken them because they are just basic Zoan. While the Dragon DF is probably more sentient and self aware like the Nika Fruit


So 19 year old Luffy figured out how to be in sync overnight/by luck, but Kaido can't do it? That's even worse.


----------



## Eustathios (Jul 15, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> *So 19 year old Luffy figured out how to be in sync overnight/by luck, but Kaido can't do it*? That's even worse.


Yes, it's called being the MC aka the chosen one. Reminder that Roger was still considered a rookie at 25, WB wasn't at his strognest until his late 30s and Shanks became a Yonkou at 35. Meanwhile 19 year old Luffy will be the PK.


----------



## Turrin (Jul 15, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> So 19 year old Luffy figured out how to be in sync overnight/by luck, but Kaido can't do it? That's even worse.


Wow an Mc of a Shonen can do something at a Young age others can’t. No way!!!!!!!

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Louis-954 (Jul 15, 2022)

Rob the Zombie said:


> Source?
> 
> Even some random jailers at ID had awakening.


Source for what??? It's basic common sense.

There are *10 million citizens in Alabasta alone*, meaning *in that country alone* there could be *10 people* who possess CoC. There are only a *couple of hundred* Devil Fruits in existence and Awakenijg is considered a rare occurrence among those couple hundred.

So I ask you again, do you really need a "source" to be able to put together why Awakening is rarer than CoC?


----------



## Admiral Akanezumi (Jul 15, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Source for what??? It's basic common sense.
> 
> There are *10 million citizens in Alabasta alone*, meaning *in that country alone* there could be *10 people* who possess CoC. There are only a *couple of hundred* Devil Fruits in existence and Awakenijg is considered a rare occurrence among those couple hundred.
> 
> So I ask you again, do you really need a "source" to be able to put together why Awakening is rarer than CoC?


Yes, you are just making things up.


----------



## Louis-954 (Jul 15, 2022)

Rob the Zombie said:


> Yes, you are just making things up.


What did I make up?

How is it so difficult to understand that 1 in a million makes it more common than awakening that has a much smaller pool of potential users to draw from?


----------



## Perrin (Jul 15, 2022)

Just because luffy has arc villains with awakening 7 years ago doesn’t mean current ones have it.


----------



## 9TalesOfDestruction (Jul 15, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> The manga already said all that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well there are other God fruits, Sengoku has one for instance, so him having awakening as a mythic zoan would be his only unique trait (so far anyway).   

Why would he praise luffy for having something he doesn't?  Same reason he praised him for everything else, he wants to fight the strongest.  So far every time awakening has been used it's been called out, so if Kaido had it he didn't use it which would be odd in a fight to the "death".


----------



## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Jul 15, 2022)

great thread

I know some lads have admitted they dont do so well with their health reading criticism, so keeping everything in one thread can help them avoid that turmoil

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## January (Jul 15, 2022)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> great thread
> 
> I know some lads have admitted they dont do so well with their health reading criticism, so keeping everything in one thread can help them avoid that turmoil


Or maybe reading all the criticism in one thread don’t go well with their health


----------



## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Jul 15, 2022)

January said:


> Or maybe reading all the criticism in one thread don’t go well with their health


theres no avoiding it


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 15, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Yes, it's called being the MC aka the chosen one. Reminder that Roger was still considered a rookie at 25, WB wasn't at his strognest until his late 30s and Shanks became a Yonkou at 35. Meanwhile 19 year old Luffy will be the PK.


The chosen one trope itself usually leads to bad writing because it's so hard to execute without becoming cringe so that doesn't really help the detractors claim.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 15, 2022)

9TalesOfDestruction said:


> Well there are other God fruits, Sengoku has one for instance, so him having awakening as a mythic zoan would be his only unique trait (so far anyway).
> 
> Why would he praise luffy for having something he doesn't?  Same reason he praised him for everything else, he wants to fight the strongest.  So far every time awakening has been used it's been called out, so if Kaido had it he didn't use it which would be odd in a fight to the "death".


But let's run with that thought, kaido praising Luffy. He usually praised Luffy once he "reached a new level" of ability that Kaido himself had. Kaido praised Luffy for mastering Ryou... something he himself had. He praised Luffy for discovering advanced conqueror's haki, which he had. Every time Luffy reached a new milestone, the context was kaido acting like he was too cool to be bothered with Luffy like a senor dismissing a freshman, until Luffy surprised him.

So if we look at the context of the times Luffy was praised, how is the audience "having false/misunderstood expectations" when they see Kaido praise Luffy for discovering his awakening? Do you see where I'm going with this? People keep dismissing the criticism of Kaido not having awakening because they're claiming the author didn't set any expectations or suggest it. I think that's a little disingenuous given the nature of the story.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Bill1001 (Jul 16, 2022)

Ok lets say that Kaido does have it but didnt use it for some reason 

This still left Yamato/queen/king/marco and 500 more Zoan user 

Yet noone of them awakend.... Only luffy did

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Louis-954 (Jul 16, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> So 19 year old Luffy figured out how to be in sync overnight/by luck, but Kaido can't do it? That's even worse.


Not everyone needs to be awakened. The sooner you guys accept that it's not as common as your headcanon told you it was, the sooner you can get back to enjoying the manga.


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 16, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Not everyone needs to be awakened. The sooner you guys accept that it's not as common as your headcanon told you it was, the sooner you can get back to enjoying the manga.


I'm talking about literally 1 character and you're acting like I was expecting dozens of characters to have awakening.

There are so many logic fallacies in your reply it's not even funny.


----------



## MrAnalogies (Jul 16, 2022)

Bill1001 said:


> Ok lets say that Kaido does have it but didnt use it for some reason
> 
> This still left Yamato/queen/king/marco and 500 more Zoan user
> 
> Yet noone of them awakend.... Only luffy did


That's the other thing that made the whole saga weird. I doubt we'll get another Zoan user as a major antagonist, the series is wrapping up and all that's left is presumably Akainu/Blackbeard/Imu. So if Oda doesn't want to show us Zoan awakenings in an arc about zoans with an extremely powerful Zoan user as the main antagonist, when the hell is he going to show us? Never?

That ship seems to have sailed.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## 9TalesOfDestruction (Jul 16, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> But let's run with that thought, kaido praising Luffy. He usually praised Luffy once he "reached a new level" of ability that Kaido himself had. Kaido praised Luffy for mastering Ryou... something he himself had. He praised Luffy for discovering advanced conqueror's haki, which he had. Every time Luffy reached a new milestone, the context was kaido acting like he was too cool to be bothered with Luffy like a senor dismissing a freshman, until Luffy surprised him.
> 
> So if we look at the context of the times Luffy was praised, how is the audience "having false/misunderstood expectations" when they see Kaido praise Luffy for discovering his awakening? Do you see where I'm going with this? People keep dismissing the criticism of Kaido not having awakening because they're claiming the author didn't set any expectations or suggest it. I think that's a little disingenuous given the nature of the story.


Oh, yeah I definitely don't dismiss the complaint I expected him to have it as well and was disappointed he didn't.  I'm just offering a possible explanation for why.

Also was the original thread merged with this one?  I kinda don't remember posting in a complaint thread lol.


----------



## Karma (Jul 16, 2022)

Oda's internal reasoning for not giving Kaido awakening is prolly because he wants the "awakening" Yonko to be BB since hell likely show off 3

Still dumb for Kaido or BM to not have imo


----------



## Louis-954 (Jul 16, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> I'm talking about literally 1 character and you're acting like I was expecting dozens of characters to have awakening.
> 
> There are so many logic fallacies in your reply it's not even funny.


Rare means rare. Who would have thought?


----------



## Ren. (Jul 16, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Give it time and alot of people will look back at Wano alot better it already happened with the all the other post-ts arcs


Always the case.

If people have the guts to read what people were saying about W7 and EL when they were reading them weekly.



Bill1001 said:


> Ok lets say that Kaido does have it but didnt use it for some reason
> 
> This still left Yamato/queen/king/marco and 500 more Zoan user
> 
> Yet noone of them awakend.... Only luffy did


what other 500 zoan users you mean the smiles?

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Jul 16, 2022)

- I wish we got a volume cover featuring Kaido and the Beast Pirates.
- I’d like to see a chapter cover of Chinjao laughing surrounded by his treasure.


----------



## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Jul 16, 2022)

anyone notice the wano manga writing was shit?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


----------



## MrPopo (Jul 21, 2022)

Good take by Morj

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## DaftPunk (Jul 21, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Good take by Morj


Any raid failings in there?

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## deltaniner (Jul 21, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Rare means rare. Who would have thought?


Adding literally 1 more in Kaido doesn't magically make it go from 'rare' to 'not rare'.


----------



## Louis-954 (Jul 21, 2022)

deltaniner said:


> Adding literally 1 more in Kaido doesn't magically make it go from 'rare' to 'not rare'.


Again, rare means rare. That means that, unfortunately for you, your favorite character(s) might not have it no matter how much you want them to.


----------



## deltaniner (Jul 21, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Again, rare means rare. That means that, unfortunately for you, your favorite character(s) might not have it no matter how much you want them to.


Hmm, quite curious how you used a single post as evidence of Kaido being my fave, or anywhere near my fave.

It's almost like you don't have an actual argument.


----------



## Louis-954 (Jul 21, 2022)

deltaniner said:


> Hmm, quite curious how you used a single post as evidence of Kaido being my fave, or anywhere near my fave.
> 
> *It's almost like you don't have an actual argument.*


I never said Kaido was your favorite.

I've already made my argument.


----------



## deltaniner (Jul 21, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> I never said Kaido was your favorite.





Louis-954 said:


> Again, rare means rare. That means that,* unfortunately for you*, your *favorite character(s)* might not have it no matter how much you want them to.


This very fucking heavily implies it.


Louis-954 said:


> I've already made my argument.


And I've decided your argument is shit.


----------



## Louis-954 (Jul 22, 2022)

deltaniner said:


> This very fucking heavily implies it.
> 
> And I've decided your argument is shit.


No, it really doesn't. I made it a point to not specifically say "Kaido" and went out of my way to use "character(s)" and "them", but sometimes I forget that I'm in the OL and that this place doesn't tend to attract people with very good reading comprehension skills. I'll keep that in mind for if/when I have to reply to you in the future.

Good thing what you think you've decided doesn't really matter. Oda is thinking along the same lines as me ("being a top tier doesn't mean you just have awakening") and that's really all the affirmation I need that "rare means rare" and that Awakening is not a given for all top tiers.


----------



## deltaniner (Jul 22, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> No, it really doesn't. I made it a point to not specifically say "Kaido" and went out of my way to use "character(s)" and "them", but sometimes I forget that I'm in the OL and that this place doesn't tend to attract people with very good reading comprehension skills. I'll keep that in mind for if/when I have to reply to you in the future.


Ah, passive aggressiveness and plausible deniability. A classic.

If you didn't think Kaido was my or one of my faves, then why did you include that specific part? Why did you feel the need to specifically say "unfortunately for you"?


Louis-954 said:


> Good thing what you think doesn't really matter. Oda is thinking along the same lines as me ("being a top tier doesn't mean you just have awakening") and that's really all the affirmation I need.


Ah, I see. You're one of the Oda worshippers who can't mentally comprehend that it _is_ possible for him to fuck up. Good to know that for when/if I reply to you in the future.


----------



## Louis-954 (Jul 22, 2022)

deltaniner said:


> Ah, passive aggressiveness and plausible deniability. A classic.
> 
> If you didn't think Kaido was my or one of my faves, then why did you include that specific part? Why did you feel the need to specifically say "unfortunately for you"?
> 
> Ah, I see. *You're one of the Oda worshippers* who can't mentally comprehend that it _is_ possible for him to fuck up. Good to know that for when/if I reply to you in the future.


I'm not being aggressive towards you at all. Just stating an observation. "Plausible deniability"? I couldn't have been clearer. Here, I'll dissect everything for you since you're struggling with it. I pluralized the word "character*s*" and said they (them), again plural, "might not" (as in moving forward in the story) have Awakening. Plural means means more than one, and Kaido is one character. As an added bonus I'll include this. I don't know or care if Kaido is or isn't your favorite character. My only argument is that I take characters like Doflamingo (Oda) at their word when they say it's an incredibly rare ability. I won't be surprised if any top-tier has it, however, I also won't be surprised or complain if they don't have it because rare means rare and I understand that. Hopefully that's clear enough for ya.

Where have I "worshipped" Oda in any of the above posts? Beyond that, how is Kaido not having Awakening a "fuck up" *objectively* speaking? Based on what standard or precedent? And finally, are we applying this same standard and precedent to *all *future top tiers? Or are we just doing so arbitrarily because I don't see nearly as much complaining about Linlin and Newgate not showcasing it. Who is deciding how and when Oda has "fucked up"?


----------



## KBD (Jul 22, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Good take by Morj



But all of Morjis takes are good

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Jul 24, 2022)

I guess one really annoying thing about the series is how Oda doesn't even drip feed us the important information, but just maybe gives us a single drop every 2 arcs or so.

For example, we know as much about the Ancient Kingdom today as we did in 2005.

I think Oda is just really too stingy with some of this stuff, the Nika thing this arc was a pleasant surprise, since normally he'd have first brought up Nika as a name in chapter 706 and has us wait 300 chapters to hear about it again. So having something like this brought up within the arc and then a few chapters later us finding out more about it was definitely a nice change of pace.


----------



## Nathan Copeland (Jul 25, 2022)

Idk man I’m really pissed wano took 5 looking like 6 years of one piece this is ridiculous


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Jul 25, 2022)

Nathan Copeland said:


> Idk man I’m really pissed wano took 5 looking like 6 years of one piece this is ridiculous



It's 4 years.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Nathan Copeland (Jul 25, 2022)

San Juan Wolf said:


> It's 4 years.


Well I wasn’t counting 18 too but still 4 years still too long. Especially for how lack luster the final battles were. You could tell oda didn’t know what to do. 

Look how bad Sanji vs Queen was. People didn’t even think the fight was over when it did ended

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Jul 25, 2022)

Nathan Copeland said:


> Well I wasn’t counting 18 too but still 4 years still too long. Especially for how lack luster the final battles were. You could tell oda didn’t know what to do.
> 
> Look how bad Sanji vs Queen was. People didn’t even think the fight was over when it did ended



Yeah, Kaido's fight was just ME SWING CLUB GOOD !

The Queen fight was a little more varied but Oda seemed to be setting up Chopper to take him out, and in fact Chopper had so much more of a personal reason than Sanji and the offscreen Geisha attack we learned about out of nowhere just before the fight ended.

And the King fight was just kinda boring cause King is boring.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Shrike (Jul 28, 2022)

I promised a huge post but tbh the gist of it - G5 made me lose it. I don't believe in Oda's competence to do anything right at all. I was disappointed for a long time, but G5 was the end of everything for me, and now I am just reading to see the mysteries and the ending unfold.

Amidst the arc that had no tension at all, was structured very badly, had asspull powerups out of thin air, had people that not only cannot die (OP standard) but kept getting up endlessly - the main character's powers get retconned into some dumb looney toons powers because it's supposed to be funny?

Yeah, I guess it's hilarious - it's hilarious how can people like this abysmal piece of shit writing, because Onigashima is just an incredibly bad part of a humongous arc. 

And there are people who are saying that this power fits Luffy...

Fits him how? He's laughing like a maniac out of happiness for thirst of combat. Did people read that idiotic Bleach level shit?  
I'll spit on the manga some more when I get the time.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 2


----------



## Bill1001 (Jul 28, 2022)

_Zoro :" im going to lead the samuri!!! 
Luffy :end up leading them 
_Zoro :" get compared to Rumai 
Luffy : end up to be the one who got compared to Rumai 
Zoro :" I need to visit Rumai grave 
Marco : end up to be the one who visit the grave


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Jul 29, 2022)

Bill1001 said:


> _Zoro :" im going to lead the samuri!!!
> Luffy :end up leading them
> _Zoro :" get compared to Rumai
> Luffy : end up to be the one who got compared to Rumai
> ...



Rumai ?


----------



## TheWiggian (Aug 2, 2022)

San Juan Wolf said:


> Rumai ?



He meant Rumeo

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 4, 2022)

Multiple times have I said that Oda was clearly setting up Smoker and Tashigi to be recurring rivals for Luffy and Zoro, akin to how Garp was a recurring rival for Roger, and then lamented how Oda seems to have forgotten that idea, but was there ever any actual evidence of that, or am I merely seeing what I want to see?


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Aug 5, 2022)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Multiple times have I said that Oda was clearly setting up Smoker and Tashigi to be recurring rivals for Luffy and Zoro, akin to how Garp was a recurring rival for Roger, and then lamented how Oda seems to have forgotten that idea, but was there ever any actual evidence of that, or am I merely seeing what I want to see?



Definitely would have made sense for Tashigi, but seeing how she was just a human ragdoll that got kicked around by three different people on Punk Hazard and managed to take down exactly no one, that's apparently no longer the case.

Seriously why was she even there ? All she "accomplished" that arc was to:

1. Be totally humiliated by Law without getting a single damn hit in
2. Be taken down in a SINGLE PUNCH by Vergo without, again, getting a single hit in
3. Getting the fuck bitten out of her by Monet, who she never managed to hurt even slightly, with Zoro having to be the one take her out.

Reactions: Friendly 1


----------



## Nello (Aug 5, 2022)

Hundreds of chapters enduring Wano citizens and then we don't even get a lore dump at the end of the arc

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Aug 5, 2022)

Nello said:


> Hundreds of chapters enduring Wano citizens and then we don't even get a lore dump at the end of the arc



I mean we did get some lore about what opening up the country means.

But I think Robin and Law could have gone down just a bit more to at least get a glimpse of Pluton.


----------



## VileNotice (Aug 5, 2022)

San Juan Wolf said:


> I mean we did get some lore about what opening up the country means.
> 
> But I think Robin and Law could have gone down just a bit more to at least get a glimpse of Pluton.


Imo Kaido should've revealed the Pluton stuff in the climax of his fight with Luffy. Then death's door BM tries to activate part of it when she's underground right as Kaido hurtles down toward her, and the partial activation destroys them both


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Aug 6, 2022)

I seriously don't know why they didn't just walk down a bit more, there was no urgency for them to be gone and nothing stopping them from just walking the extra few steps.


----------



## Delta Shell (Aug 7, 2022)

Wano ending was a bit of a train wreck.

Oda deffo needed a rest.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 7, 2022)

San Juan Wolf said:


> Definitely would have made sense for Tashigi, but seeing how she was just a human ragdoll that got kicked around by three different people on Punk Hazard and managed to take down exactly no one, that's apparently no longer the case.
> 
> Seriously why was she even there ? All she "accomplished" that arc was to:
> 
> ...



Yes, that is very sad, indeed, so I do find myself wondering why Oda even created her character, especially since he went through the effort of giving her an uncanny resemblance to Kuina, which was clearly intended to be important for Zoro's development as a character.


----------



## Zero (Aug 8, 2022)

@Donquixote Doflamingo and I were recently discussing how despite how dragged One Piece is and the downgrade of story arcs compared to early One Piece we still come back for more.

Anyone else feel the same?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## JustSumGuy (Aug 8, 2022)

I’ve been following this shit since I was 11 I don’t have any other choice. I reckon a lot of people are in the same boat. 

Being a fan of one piece takes so much time and effort that you kinda have to love it. If you don’t you probably haven’t made it this far.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Bouki (Aug 8, 2022)

Oda is a con, he's a master at hyping up his story and building a fake world that never delivers. He keeps creating more holes that draw you further into the story. Basically 1 godly chapter that hypes up secondary characters then back to 49 chapters of filler.
This final saga is his last chance to redeem himself, hope he finally delivers, though film Red marketing wasn't a very good start.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Lewd 1


----------



## luffy no haki (Aug 8, 2022)

Nobody reads one piece because of quality, we shit on it because of that but we dont read because of that.

One Piece for a very long time has been the epitome of fun among action shonen, many of us started it as kids and as much as Odas writing has declined the goofy hyped feel of it has not gone away.

No matter how low it sinks we have a strong connection with this series so most people will be there till the end wether it ends gloriously or as a dumpster fire.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


----------



## Rob (Aug 8, 2022)

Post TS sucks mostly. 

Oda is the king of wasting potential. 

He will never top the glory of P1. 






But I still lub wun peez

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Friendly 1


----------



## Delta Shell (Aug 8, 2022)

Rob said:


> But I still lub wun peez

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Ascot (Aug 8, 2022)

maybe its because it isnt bad


----------



## Silver (Aug 8, 2022)

Because most people have been following it for so many years, its created some form of a metaphysical bond.

Whether we realize it or not

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 8, 2022)

Y'all are edgy.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


----------



## 9TalesOfDestruction (Aug 8, 2022)

"Bad" one piece is still better than other shonen lol. 

Only arc I've found honestly bad has been Onigashima(really only parts towards the end really), but I'd still read it over anything else. 

Part 2 is only bad compared to Part 1, it's Oda vs Oda tbh.


edit: Also I blame Editors and Fan polls when things seem to be going one way and make a complete 180.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Aug 8, 2022)

luffy no haki said:


> Nobody reads one piece because of quality



I mean I do.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## luffy no haki (Aug 8, 2022)

San Juan Wolf said:


> I mean I do.


Then why u still reading


----------



## Gin (Aug 8, 2022)

Silver said:


> Because most people have been following it for so many years, its created some form of a metaphysical bond.
> 
> Whether we realize it or not


this

it’s achieved black hole status in the sense that there are so many people following it and talking about it that it’s going to inevitably suck more people in, and those who drop it will probably get sucked back


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Aug 8, 2022)

luffy no haki said:


> Then why u still reading



Because Wano may be flawed but that doesn't mean I didn't like the rest.


----------



## Terraforce (Aug 13, 2022)

To Oda's credit, some of it is definitely on the fans for assuming Wano would be "Zoro's arc" with things like ZKK and assuming the Ryoma parallels would come to pass. But objectively speaking, there are multiple plot threads that connect Zoro to Wano that just flounder and go nowhere at all.

1. *Kuina's connection to Wano.* Kuina, the entire reason for Zoro's will to become the greatest Swordsman, is a descendant of the Shimotsuki. You would think this would be the perfect time for that arc to come full circle, but it feels like such an afterthought. There was ample opportunity to at least mention the fact that her entire lineage originated from Wano and the relevancy of this fact, but the most we got was half of a flashback in the middle of a fight with King. The Sandai is also a sword forged by Sukiyaki who we straight up meet, but is a connection that's barely mentioned. We were introduced to that sword damn near 1000 chapters ago and it was alluded to be special when it was first introduced, and now we have the perfect set up with the person who made the sword, but nah, that's barely even mentioned for some reason.



2. *Visiting Ryoma's grave.* It was set up almost 100 chapters ago with Zoro asking Hiyori about it, but we never see this play out either. Zoro doesn't have many individual character moments in the post timeskip that aren't directly involved with fighting, so it's unfortunate we skipped passed this potential heartfelt moment as well. Instead, Shusui was inharmoniously stolen offscreen, and we never see the end of that story.






3.* Zoro's personal history with Wano*(?) This is a much more dubious point unlike the first two, but Wano would have been the perfect time for us to wrap back to Zoro's potential connections with the Shimotsuki, apperance-wise. He already looked similar to young Ryoma, then Oda brought out Ushimaru. We know Zoro isn't the latter's son, but no connection at all felt very surprising.









I feel like you can go deeper with a lot of the connections, with multiple mentions of the people of Wano of Zoro and "Fate," etc. We don't need for Zoro to have some epic backstory, or be the next in line for daimiyo of Ringo and for Zoro to be some super special Wano figure. But at the very least, some of these loose ends deserved to be concluded on screen.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Friendly 2


----------



## jesusus (Aug 13, 2022)

Sunken cost fallacy. Same reason someone who spends 10,000 hours reading poorly written furry fanfiction won't stop suddenly next monday.


----------



## Jin22 (Aug 13, 2022)

Yamato not joining is not gangsta...the crew would have been so strong.  I wanted that

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Jackalinthebox (Aug 13, 2022)

Think a lot of people fail to realize you can recognize something as being bad while still enjoying it.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Aug 13, 2022)

I've seen mostly mixed to slightly negative(?) opinions on this particular board in regards to the current writing quality of the manga, especially compared to other platforms.

So I felt like asking, are y'all truly yay or nay on One Piece these days? In all honesty.


----------



## Duhul10 (Aug 13, 2022)

People here tend to be more quality-oriented, therefore people disliking the direction of the manga here, more than in other places, is understandable. You can find people who'd literally eat whatever Oda produces here as well.

Reactions: Like 7


----------



## Bouki (Aug 13, 2022)

I doubt you'll find any positive reviews outside of the main subreddit. Even they are on life support now.
Post ts quality is nowhere near pre ts. I can forgive Fishman Island as I read it in one go, Dressrosa was too long for its own good but is okay in general. Then came WCI and the whole wedding cake cancer, but we overlooked it in hopes for a good arc at Wano.

Wano, however, turned out to be absolutely dogshit. Not only did it ruin years of buildup, but it will also have an aftertaste in the upcoming saga.
Blackbeard and Akainu are the only two who can save this manga now.


----------



## Vengarl (Aug 13, 2022)

They just like to complain throughout because everybody's a critic. One Piece hasn't declined in quality nearly as much as they claim, they are clearly still invested in it as they've been complaining for years. A little cognitive dissonance and retrospect tends to smooth that out, as people don't complain nearly as much reading past arcs as they do when they're happening. If it was really so bad they would have dropped it already like so many did with the truly bad mangas like Bleach or Fairy Tail.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Captain Quincy (Aug 13, 2022)

Just because I have plenty of criticisms of the series doesn’t mean I don’t still love it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Aug 13, 2022)

Bouki said:


> I doubt you'll find any positive reviews outside of the main subreddit. Even they are on life support now.


I admit I haven't looked there in a while, has it gotten pretty rough or something?


----------



## luffy no haki (Aug 13, 2022)

Op is still my fav shonen.

Now that doesnt mean saying whats not of my liking is bad, particularly not sure if " direction" is the right word, its not about what he is doing but how he is doing it.


----------



## Saitama (Aug 13, 2022)

The author never announced that he would focus on Zoro’s backstory or role, did he? Hell, he told us not to focus on some of these tidbits.

So I don’t really know where all of this is coming from 

I am sure it’s just because hurr durr,
Wano = samurai = swordsman = Zoro = Zoro’s complete backstory and feats and like the best arc ever

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 5 | Lewd 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (Aug 13, 2022)

Either we're not supposed to care about Zoro's past as it's unimportant, or Oda is stalling and teasing on purpose just to annoy the readers.


----------



## Bonney (Aug 13, 2022)

Saitama said:


> The author never announced that he would focus on Zoro’s backstory or role, did he? Hell, he told us not to focus on some of these tidbits.
> 
> So I don’t really know where all of this is coming from
> 
> ...



How can you spout such nonsense when reading some of the panels above. Also trusting Oda's work outside of the manga, please don't forget his comments regarding Kaido & how Luffy could beat him.

The simple explanation can be, Oda added this stuff & decided for one reason or another to not resolve it, that's it. He put the idea there, played with it but like many concepts, the acts for example which clearly got dropped as a concept, or the lurking legend, or even his comments about the bigger punch. We know Oda adds and does stuff on the fly, even the Supernova, how Kidd was going to be more important, certain things he clearly changes his mind on.

Sometimes he just is incompetent with certain things too, Kaido having F all exposition is just that, especially when in comparison to the time spent on Smiles for example.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 8


----------



## 9TalesOfDestruction (Aug 13, 2022)

Yeah, he even forgot about Zoro visiting Ryumas grave lol.  Ushimaru was supposed to have a 3 sword style (never showed it)

The prologue was a perfect time for it, instead we got to see Green Bull get yelled at by Shanks and run away.  smh

Granted, I think Oda just opened way too many plot points and side characters in Wano, it's a miracle he tied it up as much as he did tbh.


----------



## Vinsmoke31 (Aug 13, 2022)

He should have made this his backstory arc but at this point i doing think were ever going to get it.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Brighton (Aug 13, 2022)

I think Oda genuinely forgot about the Ryuma's  grave thing. He'll probably remember towards the end of the series and have Zoro go back to Wano for that reason.


----------



## Vinsmoke31 (Aug 13, 2022)

I think oda at this point is going for unpredictability over everything, he set up soo much stuff that just.... Didnt resolve

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Aug 13, 2022)

its almost as if the manga writing isnt very good

Reactions: Agree 12 | Funny 1


----------



## Superstars (Aug 13, 2022)

Nah, Oda dropped the ball with that Moriah and Kaidoh rivalry flashback.

I wanted to see Moriah grave rob Kaidoh!

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 1 | Dislike 1


----------



## Terraforce (Aug 14, 2022)

Saitama said:


> The author never announced that he would focus on Zoro’s backstory or role, did he? Hell, he told us not to focus on some of these tidbits.
> 
> So I don’t really know where all of this is coming from
> 
> ...


Surely you can read the OP? I explicitly pointed this out multiple times. I straight up said Wano = Zoro's arc because "samurai" was a silly expectation by fans. The point is there are plot threads introduced that lead nowhere.

Like hot damn, at least show you have basic reading comprehension when I clearly point out everything I'm referring to in the OP. You can't try that when I point out specific panels to emphasize why I came to this conclusion.


----------



## Luffyfan38 (Aug 14, 2022)

Oda never once said Wano was Zoro’s arc, that was all annoying speculation from said fans just because it involved          Samurai.

Just because Sanji had an arc doesn’t mean everyone is going to get one, I mean we might be skipping over Usopp’s supposed arc with giants you don’t hear Usopp fans crying over it.


----------



## PureWIN (Aug 14, 2022)

Overall Oda dropped the ball with developing Zoro as a swordsman in Wano.

He picked up Kinemon's firecutting ability offscreen and figured out his CoC while fighting King. That's it.

Narratively he dropped a ton of interesting clues, so I guess he expects fans to fill in the details?


----------



## Jin22 (Aug 14, 2022)

Zoro the character made his Wano story good, because he is Zoro.  Even with the mentioned facts, Zoro had a sword upgrade plus he was added to the CoC gang.  The sigh of satisfaction is there with those additions alone, not to mention a hot princess falling for him


----------



## Shrike (Aug 14, 2022)

Akira Kurusu said:


> I've seen mostly mixed to slightly negative(?) opinions on this particular board in regards to the current writing quality of the manga, especially compared to other platforms.
> 
> So I felt like asking, are y'all truly yay or nay on One Piece these days? In all honesty.


It's hard to say nay because One Piece with all its faults is a manga that's been running for 25 years and has amazing highs. 

It's just that the latter portion of the manga is an obvious downgrade in writing quality, I feel that Wano (specifically Onigashima) showcase this on so many levels.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Terraforce (Aug 14, 2022)

Luffyfan38 said:


> Oda never once said Wano was Zoro’s arc, that was all annoying speculation from said fans just because it involved          Samurai.
> 
> Just because Sanji had an arc doesn’t mean everyone is going to get one, I mean we might be skipping over Usopp’s supposed arc with giants you don’t hear Usopp fans crying over it.


Thank you for summarizing quite literally the first sentence I brought up in the OP 


Terraforce said:


> To Oda's credit, some of it is definitely on the fans for assuming Wano would be "Zoro's arc"


But that's not what this thread is about...Y'all really just read the thread title and assume the rest? lol

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Garcher (Aug 14, 2022)

Wano wasn't Zoro arc but it should have been. Also Wano being Zoro's arc wasn't "speculation", Oda did allude to it and after Sanji got a massive arc it was reasonable to assume Zoro would get similar focus.


----------



## RossellaFiamingo (Aug 14, 2022)

Mind-boggling how Zoro still has fans that actually enjoy his character post-time skip. Zoro used to be my favorite character in the pre-time skip but by Dressrosa it was clear to anyone paying attention that Oda doesn't give a shit about Zoro's characterization. He turned Zoro into a homeless homeless man's version of guts but without any depth to him.

If you only care about power levels, Zoro's development post-time skip isn't even that compelling either. His one real fight in more than a decade was against a shitty chicken who didn't even show any cool abilities and jobbed hard for the sake of the plot.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## josh101 (Aug 14, 2022)

PureWIN said:


> Overall Oda dropped the ball with developing Zoro as a swordsman in Wano.
> 
> He picked up Kinemon's firecutting ability offscreen and figured out his CoC while fighting King. That's it.
> 
> Narratively he dropped a ton of interesting clues, so I guess he expects fans to fill in the details?


_Thats it_? Lmao

Not like he 

Learnt Foxfire Style
Fought Hawkins
Beaten Gyukimaru
Beaten Killer
Duelled Denjiro
Obtained Enma
OHKO Apoo
Cut Prometheus
Scared BM/Kaido and forced them to dodge
Blocked a combined attack from 2 Yonkou, possibly the strongest attack ever seen
Awaken CoC
Scarred Kaido
Tamed Enma
Learnt AdCoC
Beaten King
Beaten Death

This arc or anything.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Terraforce (Aug 14, 2022)

josh101 said:


> _Thats it_? Lmao
> 
> Not like he
> 
> ...


They said "as a swordsman" so they probably mean more than the usual "Zoro beats strong guy meathead energy." Zoro winning fights is nothing unique to Wano.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## spawn3 (Aug 14, 2022)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Mind-boggling how Zoro still has fans that actually enjoy his character post-time skip. Zoro used to be my favorite character in the pre-time skip but by Dressrosa it was clear to anyone paying attention that Oda doesn't give a shit about Zoro's characterization. He turned Zoro into a homeless homeless man's version of guts but without any depth to him.
> 
> If you only care about power levels, Zoro's development post-time skip isn't even that compelling either. His one real fight in more than a decade was against a shitty chicken who didn't even show any cool abilities and jobbed hard for the sake of the plot.


Fans were willing to ignore Zoro's poor post-timeskip because the expectation was that Wano would be a good arc for him character-wise.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Subtle (Aug 14, 2022)

This is just another example of how poor the writing for Post TS is.


----------



## Rob (Aug 14, 2022)

Oda? Wasting potential? Not in my Post-TS

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 14, 2022)

The biggest issue is the lack of conclusion. He literally just allured on multiple panels to the ryuuma clan connection and the last mention of Ryuuma in arc was as a comparison to Luffy. 

Regardless of how you feel about Oda, that's a non-concluded plot point. 

The obvious is that he will touch on in again, and will probably be explicit about all of this set up in the next saga. It will be as silly and artificial as Sanji's true power up and post skip fight being in Wano instead of WCI. 

The man runs the char's progression at a snail pace for no reason.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## bil02 (Aug 14, 2022)

At this point i think Zoro visited Ryuuma's grave off-screen and that he isn't related to Wano at all,just a re-incarnation of Ryuuma without the Wano bloodline.


----------



## jesusus (Aug 16, 2022)

Why does Oda focus so much time on developing fodders and none of the SHs? The manga is nearing the end and the post-TS SHs have been just there as cardboard cutouts. Did they all accomplish their goals and dreams during the timeskip and now are just here to troll Yonko?

Reactions: Agree 4 | GODA 1


----------



## yoshaaa (Aug 19, 2022)

for me its like a pyramid, it was going up until the time skip and since then its just downhill with some good moments. Hoping for a good ending, but won't be surprised if its just mehh.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Francyst (Aug 20, 2022)

Zoro isn't goofy enough to make tarzan noises while fighting the strongest pirates on the planet and zoro fans lose their shit.


----------



## 9TalesOfDestruction (Aug 22, 2022)

People complained so much about one piece that Oda decided to actually give them something to complaing about lol.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## jesusus (Aug 24, 2022)

I honestly thought the New World would surpass pre-skip in quality back in 2010, that's how high my hopes were

Then after FI, the ending of it gave me hope again, "Yes we are finally starting the New World, a place that makes Paradise look like a Disney park"

Cue a few years later, and Punk Hazard is ending, "Yes we are finally starting the REAL new world, time to get serious."

Cue a few years later, "okay... Dressrosa was a minor arc in the grand scheme of things, the Yonko will show us just how deadly the New World is"

Cue a few years later "Okay, Big Mom is a Big Meme, but at least we have Kaido"

Cue a few years later "okay.. the Gomu Gomu was retconned into literal deus ex machina power, and Kaido was turned into a jumprope."

Cue present "Oda confirmed the manga is nearing the end... and the New World never even began."

Reactions: GODA 2


----------



## Louis-954 (Aug 29, 2022)

I'm upsetti spaghetti that Zoro didn't upgrade Sandai Kitetsu to Nidai Kitetsu. I suppose that would have been too many powerups though.


----------



## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Sep 1, 2022)

title

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Djomla (Sep 1, 2022)

Joyboy


----------



## Incognitos (Sep 1, 2022)

Nika fruit

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (Sep 1, 2022)

Do I have to pick only one?

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## o0Shinthi0o (Sep 1, 2022)

Usopp


----------



## luffy no haki (Sep 1, 2022)

Just one is difficult


----------



## Ludi (Sep 1, 2022)

How it ended

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Dunno (Sep 1, 2022)

The Wano arc.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## NotTommy (Sep 1, 2022)

X Drake's win/loss streak.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Strobacaxi (Sep 1, 2022)

The ending

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


----------



## Medeia (Sep 1, 2022)

The ending (not counting outside stuff like Cross Guild introduction)


----------



## Shrike (Sep 1, 2022)

The entire Onigashima raid. I cannot say what exactly since I only liked like 3% of it.


----------



## Esdese (Sep 1, 2022)

nika nika fruit


----------



## VileNotice (Sep 1, 2022)

Esdese said:


> nika nika fruit


Would have been better than hito hito no mi model Nika

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## luffy no haki (Sep 1, 2022)

The gomu gomu no mi not existing


----------



## 9TalesOfDestruction (Sep 1, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> The ending


This


----------



## cmiygl (Sep 1, 2022)

Incognitos said:


> The Nika asspull has made me no longer interested in the straw hats and I only continue to read because of kid.


Lost interest in the SHs but you love kidd!?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Incognitos (Sep 1, 2022)

cmiygl said:


> Lost interest in the SHs but you love kidd!?


Yeah. Kid doesn't have asspulls like that


----------



## Hijuko (Sep 2, 2022)

I've seen a lot of criticism of Onigashima that there was a lack of tension and the fights weren't always up to snuff but wouldn't fans be seeing Oda looking better than he does? is currently? He is still close to fifty.

So, is Oda still at his peak or not? And if not, will we have to get used to looking at One Piece with a lighter eye?


----------



## Big Bob (Sep 2, 2022)

No.


----------



## trance (Sep 2, 2022)

oda's peak was EL to marineford

Reactions: Winner 6 | Lewd 1


----------



## A Optimistic (Sep 2, 2022)

Oda’s peak was pre-time skip

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## God Movement (Sep 2, 2022)

Nobody really had anything bad to say about One Piece pre-skip.

People have a lot of bad things to say about One Piece post-skip.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Sep 2, 2022)

Oda peaked with Monsters

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## Van Basten (Sep 2, 2022)

Oda peaked before the timeskip.


----------



## Yonatan (Sep 2, 2022)

He peaked over a decade ago tbh. Nowadays he cares more about giving us repetitive unfunny gags, things nobody asked for, and off-paneling all the good stuff.


----------



## Jin22 (Sep 2, 2022)

He peaked...though I am hopeful


----------



## T-Bag (Sep 2, 2022)

Oda is biting on more than he could chew.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Delta Shell (Sep 2, 2022)

Ennies Lobby

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


----------



## luffy no haki (Sep 2, 2022)

Dont think so

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## aiyanah (Sep 2, 2022)

creative peak in humans is from 19-25 so ODA is just telling us a story he came up with way back then.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## jesusus (Sep 2, 2022)

What kind of drugs is required to huff for one to say yes to this question?


----------



## Canute87 (Sep 2, 2022)

I'm really tired of this peak Oda shit.

Because all this does is make me go back to Nico Robin scene and I start to cry.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Vagueness (Sep 2, 2022)

trance said:


> oda's peak was EL to marineford


Disagree tbh. His peak was Alabasta to EL or maybe even Baratie to EL. There Oda reached his best in story and character writing. Most of the rest of the arcs were great too but only in a "hype moments" way.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## trance (Sep 2, 2022)

Vagueness said:


> i 100% agree


thanks man

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Djomla (Sep 2, 2022)

Nope.


----------



## Vagueness (Sep 2, 2022)

trance said:


> ah i see what you mean and i change my mind.


No problem bro.

Reactions: GODA 1


----------



## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Sep 2, 2022)

No

Eiichero's writing has been a disappointment

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Mob (Sep 2, 2022)

If Odas prime was primebeard level his writing now is in a post meigo to the head phase

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 5


----------



## VileNotice (Sep 2, 2022)

Writingwise, he’s fallen quite a bit.

Artwise is more subjective. I’d say he’s past his peak but visually the manga is perfectly serviceable, unlike the writing which has moved past mediocre into outright sloppy and disjointed.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Sablés (Sep 2, 2022)

No, and there's no reason he should be.

He's been writing the same series weekly (now funtionally bi-weekly) for 20+ years. Though it would be nice if the quality could have been kept forever, it's also unreasonable to expect. At least OP is still readable.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## 9TalesOfDestruction (Sep 2, 2022)

No, I think he's tired of the manga now.  He's still heaps and bounds better than his competition though. Even with how much I disliked the ending of wano, can't think of another shonen right now that's even close to it. At least out of the popular ones I know about.

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1


----------



## Soca (Sep 2, 2022)

Hijuko said:


> I've seen a lot of criticism of Onigashima that there was a lack of tension and the fights weren't always up to snuff



Most troll comment this year...


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Sep 3, 2022)

God Movement said:


> Nobody really had anything bad to say about One Piece pre-skip.
> 
> People have a lot of bad things to say about One Piece post-skip.



Oh I most assuredly did, good sir XD

Like Nami getting exactly 2 fights in all of Pre Timeskip despite being around since Chapter 8. (She has since gotten....another whole ONE since the Timeskip  )

Ace getting killed after everything Luffy went through to save him because he couldn't stop from responding to literal schoolyard taunts from Akainu.

Oda depicting all Okama besides Mr. 2 and Invakov's posse as physically hideous rapey stalkers, who refuse to accept the word "no" for an answer.

Luffy's intelligence level fluctuating wildly, being rather sly back when recruiting Zoro but since then sometimes dipping down to the levels of pure, honest to god, clinically diagnosed mental retardation, for the sake of a joke.

The Grandline being supposedly super deadly but then it turns out it's relatively normal, so much so they call the first half "Paradise". And the New World doesn't seem nearly as deadly either, if you avoid steering into Yonko territory....or that one lightning island I REALLY want an explanation for.

Just a few off the top of my head.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


----------



## Van Basten (Sep 4, 2022)

The length.


----------



## TheMoffinMan (Sep 4, 2022)

Based on expectations I'd say the Shogun.


----------



## Chip Skylark (Sep 4, 2022)

TheMoffinMan said:


> Based on expectations I'd say the Shogun.


Was hard to pick, but I’d probably have to go with this.

Orochi’s character was so mind-numbingly boring that every development involving him felt like a complete waste of space. Made it worse that Oda really wanted to focus in on him, and coincide his defeat with Kaido’s.

Beyond disappointing that anyone could say that about one of the most central characters of the story arc, and it really illustrates why Wano was so poorly received by a lot of people.

Feel the arc as a whole would be x10 better if Oda simply made Orochi a compelling character. Even if nothing else was changed, and there were many problems with Wano.


----------



## blueWaves (Sep 4, 2022)

Shanks coming to promote film Red. There was a lot of bullshit, but this was straight up shameless on Oda's part.


----------



## MrAnalogies (Sep 4, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> creative peak in humans is from 19-25 so ODA is just telling us a story he came up with way back then.


He already knew how the story would end and had a general idea of the overall plot. The problem is he keeps adding new shit last minute and has had terrible pacing for several years now. The man just doesn't know how to follow through on a good idea and keep it simple and coherent from start to finish. 

Wano as a concept could have been great and was very interesting. He had been planning wano since pre timeskip but the execution was pretty bad.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Saitama (Sep 6, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> I'm upsetti spaghetti that Zoro didn't upgrade Sandai Kitetsu to Nidai Kitetsu. I suppose that would have been too many powerups though.


Don’t be upsetti, Shodai Kitetsu will be his next upgrade.


----------



## Shrike (Sep 6, 2022)

Delta Shell said:


> Ennies Lobby


W7 or Ennies Lobby. After that, there were ups and downs, sometimes more ups sometimes more downs, but recently it was mostly just downs.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Joe Maiafication (Sep 7, 2022)

Bounties getting crazy. 
At the end of the season, 1 billion is like 100 million, everyone will have 10+ billion bounty.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## derpgoku01 (Sep 7, 2022)

Oda would rather draw a bathscene than have 1 PANEL of kiku grieving her brothers death 
This should tell you where the writters priorities are

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Sep 9, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Was hard to pick, but I’d probably have to go with this.
> 
> Orochi’s character was so mind-numbingly boring that every development involving him felt like a complete waste of space. Made it worse that Oda really wanted to focus in on him, and coincide his defeat with Kaido’s.
> 
> ...



Oda should have had Orochi be the bad guy and have Kaido taken down later, or had just Kaido and no one else.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Delta Shell (Sep 16, 2022)

Do you think Oda's thought of a reason for the giant frozen straw hat yet


----------



## Vagueness (Sep 16, 2022)

Delta Shell said:


> Do you think Oda's thought of a reason for the giant frozen straw hat yet


holy shit i totally forgot about the giant ominous straw hat lmao

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Delta Shell (Sep 16, 2022)

Remember when the WG and Zunisha turned up at Wano and just left  

Remember when an admiral and shanks did the same* *

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Funny 3


----------



## neonlight (Sep 17, 2022)

As someone said, Oda is progressively biting more than he can chew. 

I think for every major arc post-TS, Oda starts with the idea of implementing his book-written story, but when it gets translated to manga, it becomes too bloated and, due to editor's pressure or film promotions, ends up retconning/shortcutting most of his build-up.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## electricmastro (Sep 18, 2022)

So, why couldn't have Yamato talked about helping Wano from further attack in a much earlier chapter as opposed to in 1059?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Delta Shell (Sep 22, 2022)

electricmastro said:


> So, why couldn't have Yamato talked about helping Wano from further attack in a much earlier chapter as opposed to in 1059?


It's almost as if


----------



## jesusus (Sep 22, 2022)

Anyone who believes Oda isn't winging it at this juncture is smoking some dubious substances

Reactions: Agree 4


----------



## Vagueness (Sep 22, 2022)

jesusus said:


> Anyone who believes Oda isn't winging it at this juncture is smoking some dubious substances


but what about the fOrEShaDOWing?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Delta Shell (Sep 24, 2022)

Never forget Senor Pink had a better flashback than Kaido.

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Sep 24, 2022)

Delta Shell said:


> Never forget Senor Pink had a better flashback than Kaido.



Oh absolutely.

He also had about as much variety to his fight.

But still

Senor is a true man.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Nathan Copeland (Oct 9, 2022)

San Juan Wolf said:


> Oh absolutely.
> 
> He also had about as much variety to his fight.
> 
> ...


Even Ace got a better developed flashback than Kaido in his own arc  


Delta Shell said:


> Never forget Senor Pink had a better flashback than Kaido.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Oct 9, 2022)

jesusus said:


> Anyone who believes Oda isn't winging it at this juncture is smoking some dubious substances



I mean, he's got the basics set down, according to him. He just gets distracted a lot with new ideas.

Which, hey, we got Bege out of this so I don't see a reason to complain, cause he can actually do this, unlike Kubo.


----------



## Delta Shell (Oct 11, 2022)

Remember when Who's Who mentioned Nika and then Luffy turned into Nika a few chapters later.

Dat foreshadowing

Reactions: Funny 4


----------



## Nathan Copeland (Oct 11, 2022)

Delta Shell said:


> Remember when Who's Who mentioned Nika and then Luffy turned into Nika a few chapters later.
> 
> Dat foreshadowing


The Nika/Joyboy hate is wonderful

Ironically I have no problem with it but I love how much shambles it put the OP community in.

“Child of destiny”

“Quincy Ichigo”

: One Piece fans got nothing to say now

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Nathan Copeland (Oct 11, 2022)

I must say it is bullshit how Oden is this magnificent top tier monster but fisher tiger is fodder smh

Fisher tiger should have been yonkou tier

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


----------



## accountmaker (Oct 12, 2022)

It just came out of nowhere and doesn't fit Luffy's MO IMO. He's supposed to be a rookie who shapes his own fate, a man who would inherit Roger's will, not automatically be destined to carry it out. Also why Nika specifically? Literally no other mythical zoan acts like that, and there are no other zoans based on OCs. If Oda really wanted to change the nature of the gomu gomu no mi he could've just made it the stretch stretch fruit or something. A lot of other paramecia are concept based like Alvida's slip slip fruit. Seriously it just... doesn't work for me.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Heart Over Blade (Oct 12, 2022)

Oda's been setting up Luffy's reveal as Joyboy since forever. We knew he was Joy Boy even before the official reveal. Unfortunately as the reincarnation of Joy Boy he is destined to do what Joy Boy was supposed to do, and to want what Joy Boy wants. Joy Boy's quest to liberate the world started 800 years ago. Plot demands Joy Boy continue it. If someone else other than Luffy were to be Joy Boy they would have to become the MC.

Reactions: GODA 1


----------



## OnlyLaffitte1 (Oct 12, 2022)

I'm fine with the fruit if it was just the gomu gomu awakening 

Take that stupid nika nika retcon out of there

Reactions: Like 6


----------



## cry77 (Oct 12, 2022)

Heart Over Blade said:


> Oda's been setting up Luffy's reveal as Joyboy since forever. We knew he was Joy Boy even before the official reveal. Unfortunately as the reincarnation of Joy Boy he is destined to do what Joy Boy was supposed to do, and to want what Joy Boy wants. Joy Boy's quest to liberate the world started 800 years ago. Plot demands Joy Boy continue it. If someone else other than Luffy were to be Joy Boy they would have to become the MC.


Joyboy had all that covered already, no need to introduce Nika who pretty much just does the same thing.

I do not believe for a second that Oda had this shit planned out for 20+ years, if he planned it out it was probably no more than a few years at most before the reveal. Act 1 Wano or WCI at the earliest. 

Random side character Whos Who was the catalyst for this "epic reveal" and he had to pretty much blurt out the exposition in a highly forced fashion. 


The problem with Nika is that the Joyboy thing was kinda like a choice - Luffy seemed to just so happen to choose the same route as Joyboy and Roger, but he wasnt forced to do it. Now, with Nika, we know that there is a legit WILL inside Luffy that is not his own. Which makes Luffy a puppet at best and a straight up slave at worst. 


The only good option here is Oda pulling a legit Goda move by having Luffy spit in the face of the prophecy and choosing his own path - likely inadverdtly still fullfilling it, but at least Luffy will have chosen his own paths.

Pirate Jesus and a WG ruler who might be from the Moon, as well as an army of enhanced clones. 
This is shaping up a lot like Naruto.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


----------



## Strobacaxi (Oct 12, 2022)

cry77 said:


> The problem with Nika is that the Joyboy thing was kinda like a choice - Luffy seemed to just so happen to choose the same route as Joyboy and Roger, but he wasnt forced to do it. Now, with Nika, we know that there is a legit WILL inside Luffy that is not his own. Which makes Luffy a puppet at best and a straight up slave at worst.


Luffy inheriting Joy Boy's and Roger's will has been a thing for over a decade


----------



## Heart Over Blade (Oct 12, 2022)

cry77 said:


> Joyboy had all that covered already, no need to introduce Nika who pretty much just does the same thing.


Actually my post was just answering this part of the OP


> he's supposed to be a rookie who shapes his own fate, a man who would inherit Roger's will, not automatically be destined to carry it out.


I haven't tried to address the Nika part.

I don't know why Oda felt the need to introduce Nika. Perhaps Nika has a rival/nemesis who Imu can turn into. At this point it seems like pointless asspull, but I'm sure there's more to the Nika storyline. Oda wanted to get gods involved and have Joy Boy being so powerful make sense.


----------



## t0xeus (Oct 12, 2022)

Yeah, IMO 1044 is the worst OP chapter.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


----------



## accountmaker (Oct 12, 2022)

accountmaker said:


> It just came out of nowhere and doesn't fit Luffy's MO IMO. He's supposed to be a rookie who shapes his own fate, a man who would inherit Roger's will, not automatically be destined to carry it out. Also why Nika specifically? Literally no other mythical zoan acts like that, and there are no other zoans based on OCs. If Oda really wanted to change the nature of the gomu gomu no mi he could've just made it the stretch stretch fruit or something. A lot of other paramecia are concept based like Alvida's slip slip fruit. Seriously it just... doesn't work for me.


@mods you could've at least edited it a little so it seems more coherent as a stand-alone post


----------



## mayday123 (Oct 24, 2022)

cry77 said:


> The problem with Nika is that the Joyboy thing was kinda like a choice - Luffy seemed to just so happen to choose the same route as Joyboy and Roger, but he wasnt forced to do it. Now, with Nika, we know that there is a legit WILL inside Luffy that is not his own. Which makes Luffy a puppet at best and a straight up slave at worst.
> 
> 
> The only good option here is Oda pulling a legit Goda move by having Luffy spit in the face of the prophecy and choosing his own path - likely inadverdtly still fullfilling it, but at least Luffy will have chosen his own paths.


Ultimately I think this is where Oda is going. We know Luffy has his own dream which I bet is some kind of variation of freedom that is his own and not JoyBoy's.

I mean there is no freaking way that Oda doesn't realize this whole destiny thing is a direct contradiction to who Luffy is and wants to be - the most free person on the world.

Belive in gOda.


----------



## ArabianLuffy (Nov 5, 2022)

About Gomu-Gomu no Mi. Manga spoilers. Still fresh for anime watchers, so don't click the spoiler.

*Spoiler*: __ 



For over 2 decades, we believed that Luffy ate a Rubber-Rubber fruit. Becoming the rubber human. That is until Oda revealed the true identity of the DF. It wasn't a Paramecia. It was a Zoan. It wasn't Rubber. It was Human: Model Nika, Sun-god.

My question is:
1. Do you accept this revelation?
2. Are other DFs being more than what they actually are? What I mean is randomly for example if we assumed: Is Oda later gonna reveal that the DF Robin ate is also a Zoan, too? A sort of deity, too?

I feel like it's a childish move by Oda. I'm not complaining. It's just like as if the writer says: *"Oh! But the real identity of Gumo is a sun-kami model Zoan DF fruit"*

This is Tite Kubo troll level that Tite Kubo himself can't reach.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Nov 6, 2022)

ArabianLuffy said:


> This is Tite Kubo troll level that Tite Kubo himself can't reach.



A Kubo style reveal would be to have Luffy always have been part Fishman part Mink etc. every single arc whenever a new species is introduced in-series.

Also as an aside, if Kubo wrote the series, Luffy would never graduate beyond throwing a simple punch through the entire series, but just making that punch a tiny bit stronger over time, eventually leveling up to TWO near simultaneous punches by series' end.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## La buse (Nov 7, 2022)

I swear he has been using that same move since fishman island.
I cant remember any wow moment from him since timeskip beside using CoO against Sugar. Was he even there during Wano? This is sad tbh

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 7, 2022)

Franky is in the same page using the same move he used in Fishman island aka the Radical Beam, Sanji his plain old Diable Jambe, Nami didn't do anything

Only person who showed something of theirs that was new was Robin

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## La buse (Nov 7, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Franky is in the same page using the same move he used in Fishman island aka the Radical Beam, Sanji his plain old Diable Jambe, Nami didn't do anything
> 
> Only person who showed something of theirs that was new was Robin


Both Nami, Franky, Robin, Sanji got moments and got stronger. Cant remember anything from Usopp beside him using that useless skull move.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Unresponsive (Nov 7, 2022)



Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 7, 2022)

La buse said:


> Both Nami, Franky, Robin, Sanji got moments and got stronger. Cant remember anything from Usopp beside him using that useless skull move.



he got the CoO move in dressrosa, which is about the same as the rest, though you brushed it off in the OP so....

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## VileNotice (Nov 7, 2022)

Perrin needs to pray harder for him to get a tech upgrade this arc

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4


----------



## NotTommy (Nov 7, 2022)

I just want Elbalf to come, for him to improve as a person and character, then to show off against Van Auger and then gain the respect of tons more people like his dad.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Hazuki (Nov 7, 2022)

NotTommy said:


> I just want Elbalf to come, for him to improve as a person and character, then to show off against Van Auger and then gain the respect of tons more people like his dad.



since the manga is on the end, we will probably finally see ussop evolve  indeed
for the moment it's not the case, besides ,  Yassop himself doesn't want to see his son for the moment, we could say that he continues to keep his image of unworthy father who abandoned his family but I think it's mostly a scenaristic escuse to show that Yassop will meet his son when Ussop will have reached more or less the same level 
( a bit like shanks who doesn't want to see luffy yet and who is waiting for something or maybe a new evolution )

anyway since the very beginning of the manga, and no matter how ridiculous ussop could be, his destiny is to evolve to reach at least the level of his father sooner or later 
besides sugeking who was created by ussop is the hero he wants to become and who perfectly represents his father who has the reputation of being the best shooter in the world ( 100 target for 100 success)

the potential and the destiny of ussop is written even before his first appearance in the manga

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Delta Shell (Nov 7, 2022)

Straw Hats got the ball dropped by in large since the timeskip. It's a shame as the crew is actually my fav thing about the manga.

Ussop in particular has had horrendous treatment post TS. It's a huge shame as I wanted so much for him but Oda has either ignored him in most instances or actively regressed him in some. 

He felt braver fighting Chuu or The Mole guy.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## MrAnalogies (Nov 18, 2022)

I think I finally figured out why so many people dislike wano.



Annoying Mary Sue's










Fake out deaths










Let's build up an interesting villain and then not bother explaining who they are/their motivations/etc and quickly move on after their defeat.







Poorly timed gags:






Speaking of gags, let's also humiliate the villains on a regular basis:









Interesting side characters whose story went NOWHERE due to weird writing decisions

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Unresponsive (Nov 18, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Poorly timed gags:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let's not disrespect the gags luffy made.

I've been waiting for something similar to that for years.
I can't wait for luffy to make all concepts seem like jokes


----------



## Unresponsive (Nov 18, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> I think I finally figured out why so many people dislike wano.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


+Giving no character development to a person with a goal that is entirely based upon character development.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (Nov 18, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> +Giving no character development to a person with a goal that is entirely based upon character development.


The sad part is this applies to several characters, but the worst offender is Usopp. I absolutely hate him in part 2. I laughed at the God Usopp stuff, but he legit hasn't done anything for more than 300 chapters and he's supposed to be a main character. Zero development whatsoever towards his goal of becoming a brave warrior.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


----------



## Delta Shell (Nov 23, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> The sad part is this applies to several characters, but the worst offender is Usopp. I absolutely hate him in part 2. I laughed at the God Usopp stuff, but he legit hasn't done anything for more than 300 chapters and he's supposed to be a main character. Zero development whatsoever towards his goal of becoming a brave warrior.


This is definitely one of the hugest part 2 Straw Hat misses. Probably the biggest. Showing Ussop inching closer would have been nice instead of actively regressing him.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (Nov 23, 2022)

Delta Shell said:


> This is definitely one of the hugest part 2 Straw Hat misses. Probably the biggest. Showing Ussop inching closer would have been nice instead of actively regressing him.


It's almost like part 2 Usopp was written by team fourstar where they take the worst qualities of a character and then highlight just that for comedy.


----------



## Delta Shell (Nov 23, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> It's almost like part 2 Usopp was written by team fourstar where they take the worst qualities of a character and then highlight just that for comedy.


Yeah 100% elements of that team have supported Sanji in part 2 also (although ultimately Oda has put focus on him).

The other SH haven't gotten attention but none of them had a specific character development goal.


----------



## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Nov 23, 2022)

the manga writing has been good lately, but fuk I still cant get the shit aftertaste of wano arc out of my system

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Nov 25, 2022)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> the manga writing has been good lately, but fuk I still cant get the shit aftertaste of wano arc out of my system



Yeah I get that. Wano was just such a clusterfuck of missed opportunities and terrible writing

* The Animal Kingdom Pirates were 90 % just joke meme characters, then the top 3 included a dude, whose only purpose was to get his ass handed to him to hype up other characters, and a random dude who looked like he stole Shiryuu's outfit, who never even had a personality until literally just before he got taken out.

* Kaido, despite being this big bad, foreshadowed for about a decade, had very little development put into his character, and his backstory was incredibly lame and, as I keep saying, just mostly copies off of Kyros. Dude kept flip flopping between having honour and being an utter piece of shit (see him promising to honour his promise to Oden, before letting Orochi break it and then talking to Oden with respect again a few seconds later) and his fighting style was the equivalent of watching a caveman beat someone with a club.

* Orochi was an entirely unnecessary secondary villain, who didn't even get taken out in a satisfying way

* Oda put in Toko and Tama as separate characters, even though they are so similar I have seen people both express the fact they forgot about Toko or thought they were the same character over the course of the arc.

* Hiyori, despite having 20 years of preparation time, and knowing it, and despite being Oden's daughter, apparently never learned how to defend herself, let alone do anything more, as she had to be saved three separate times during Wano. Worse, Oda seemingly gave her a clever way to take out Orochi, at least, but then undid it so the actual person who gets to take out Orochi is Denjiro. Cause that totally does not undermine the entire emotional buildup of the moment where it's revealed Hiyori purposefully trapped Orochi to kill him.

* Sanji's motivation for wanting to fight Queen being having a nameless background character we've never seen before be retconned to having been punched offscreen. As opposed to Chopper's motivation being Queen's use of viral weaponry not once, but twice. You can say how it's not a proper match all you want but really, that's like if on Thriller Bark, Sanji went to beat up Hogback cause he put a fly into Sanji's soup offscreen.

* Ashura Douji being introduced as this horribly vile piece of shit literally stealing food from starving people who, moments before, were shown to be on the verge of family-wide murder suicide due to their starvation (a woman was about to kill her own child before killing herself, for one) and yet the narrative COMPLETELY forgot about that, Ashura never getting any karma for his actions, and everyone from the Scabbards trying to be chummy with him, and we even getting honest to god panels of the fat bastard crying, where we were, I guess, supposed to feel bad for him.

* I ranted so much about the Yamato bait and switch, but it bears repeating: Oda purposefully started giving her a sad backstory, then tied it to Luffy and Ace, and had her say she wants to sail with Luffy for about a year, before pulling the rug from under the audience at the last possible second. If Oda had not done this, I'd never have become invested, as I have seen so many "Will X join ?" threads over the years and I know that, unless there are very specific criteria met, this won't happen.

* Carrot and Wanda not even being allowed to take down Perospero in a 2 on 1 and in Sulong form. Carrot's one piece of deeper characterisation was her grief over Pedro's death, so having this grudge go on for several years and then have her have her ass kicked and instead having the person who takes Perospero out be someone who was never really shown to be affected by Pedro's death, not to mention who wasn't even there, is a really bad idea, narratively.

* Oda's usual fake promises of the Numbers being these big scary motherfuckers, but turning out to be mostly joke characters that don't really provide a challenge for anyone involved.

* Kanjuro refusing to just go down, being taken down over and over again, only to keep getting back up.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Winner 1


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Dec 31, 2022)

I’ve enjoyed Wano and recent chapters immensely, but can’t help think about how Oda’s bad pacing habits have robbed us of what could have been an even better story.

Reactions: Agree 5


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Dec 31, 2022)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> I’ve enjoyed Wano and recent chapters immensely, but can’t help think about how Oda’s bad pacing habits have robbed us of what could have been an even better story.



I honestly don't think pacing was the main issue with Wano. It was more dropping the ball on Kaido as an antagonist, despite a decade of buildup, tons of time wasted on the Akazaya only for them to just get the shit kicked out of them, usually by Kanjuro, whose refusal to just stay down is something I actually forgot to include in my earlier post, and will do so now, King getting 0 development as a character etc.

Sure the arc would work better if it was trimmed down, but the core issues would probably need to make it longer to fix.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Redline (Dec 31, 2022)

Complain about this...


----------



## Bill1001 (Dec 31, 2022)

San Juan Wolf said:


> I honestly don't think pacing was the main issue with Wano. It was more dropping the ball on Kaido as an antagonist, despite a decade of buildup, tons of time wasted on the Akazaya only for them to just get the shit kicked out of them, usually by Kanjuro, whose refusal to just stay down is something I actually forgot to include in my earlier post, and will do so now, King getting 0 development as a character etc.
> 
> Sure the arc would work better if it was trimmed down, but the core issues would probably need to make it longer to fix.


It was Legit bullshit 
Kaido couldnt even kill a single fodder character


----------



## Admiral Akanezumi (Dec 31, 2022)

Bill1001 said:


> It was Legit bullshit
> Kaido couldnt even kill a single fodder character


Welcome to One Piece, according to Oda that's a feature not a bug

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Bill1001 (Dec 31, 2022)

Admiral Akanezumi said:


> Welcome to One Piece, according to Oda that's a feature not a bug


Sure, plus
_the mask dude surviving and taking a photo of Nika luffy
_Zoan coming to Wano and leave without doing any shit
_queen going Retard mod
_big mom not using Haki against Law and midd


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Jan 1, 2023)

Bill1001 said:


> Sure, plus
> _the mask dude surviving and taking a photo of Nika luffy


I thought the guy who took that was the actual surviving CP0 agent. I really think saying they got the photo from Guernica after seeing the other guy escape alone was an actual error.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Bill1001 (Jan 1, 2023)

San Juan Wolf said:


> I thought the guy who took that was the actual surviving CP0 agent. I really think saying they got the photo from Guernica after seeing the other guy escape alone was an actual error.


No, it was the hat dude who got "smashed" by Kaido

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Millennium Greed (Jan 3, 2023)

I’m glad Kaidou and Big Mom are gone. One Piece has gotten my attention again with them out of the picture. 

Their first mates were more interesting, and better characters.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Jan 4, 2023)

Millennium Greed said:


> I’m glad Kaidou and Big Mom are gone. One Piece has gotten my attention again with them out of the picture.
> 
> Their first mates were more interesting, and better characters.



Katakuri wasn't that interesting really, and King ?

Reactions: Neutral 1


----------



## Millennium Greed (Jan 4, 2023)

San Juan Wolf said:


> Katakuri wasn't that interesting really, and King ?


They were to me. Just a difference of opinion.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Jan 4, 2023)

Millennium Greed said:


> They were to me. Just a difference of opinion.



But King is just sorta...there XD

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Millennium Greed (Jan 4, 2023)

San Juan Wolf said:


> But King is just sorta...there XD


That should show you how bad Kaidou was for me


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Jan 4, 2023)

Millennium Greed said:


> That should show you how bad Kaidou was for me



I mean at the very least we got one badass moment outa Kaido when he fell off a Sky Island


----------



## Mariko (Jan 4, 2023)

2023 update:

2023


----------



## ArabianLuffy (Jan 5, 2023)

Do I, ArabianLuffy truly dislike the story direction of One Piece nowadays or any day or before? My answer is...

*Spoiler*: __ 



No


----------



## Rey (Yesterday at 11:03 AM)

Can't stand the aura shit in the anime. This is honestly how I imagine the convo in the studio sounded:

OP anime director  what do kids like about DBZ?
Assistant: they like good fights and engaging charact-
Director: its the colours dumbass. you know bitches like lights annd shit? kids do too.
Assistant: oh you mean like ki auras? well op doesn't realy have ki so.... hahahaha
director: fuck u mean no auras? you seen Jesus? we need that.  you see that rainbow cake over there? if you don't want that in your face you color the fuck out of these pirates

sir but what about the seizure lawsuits like Pokemo-
I FUCKED YOUR MOM YESTERDAY. did u hear that bit or u need it repeated too?
sir, luckily Sanji can set himself on fire so we can work something out but Zoro...
whats wrong with him?
well, he doesn't have anything like that sir, but he's got green hair maybe that would d-
make all his shit green. sprsy brocolli all over that foo, I want to see dollar bills in his damn eyeballs - wait, no. make em red. ya, that's dangerous I like that shit. Put that jesus aura around him, but make it green af. How many dollars Kenneth CopEland have? How many green pixels Picollo got? Yeah u startin to get it. I see ur ass nodding. Good, I want you to at least give 3 kids a seizure, now get to work.
yes sir


----------

