# Kakashi vs Itachi: Whose Shushin Is Faster?



## RedChidori (Aug 15, 2014)

It's been a while since I did a Battledome thread huh ?



VS




*Not a battle to the death, BUT A BATTLE OF SHUNSHIN SPEED !!! Most specifically, a comparison/observation thread to determine who has the faster Shunshin. Oh and be aware that this is in general. In other words, both combatants are not bound by Part I or Part II in terms of feats.

Please provide legitimate reasons why you feel either Kakashi or Itachi is faster with Shunshin. Scans and long ass posts will suffice . But seriously though, please give a good explanation. 


READY?! DISCUSS   !!!!!* *-RedChidori*


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## Bonly (Aug 15, 2014)

Really dude? Did you really need to make the text that big? 

So far I'd say both Shunshin speed should be around the same area though I'd say the scales might slightly tip in Itachi's favor


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## Cognitios (Aug 15, 2014)

Bonly oneshotted and solo'd this thread, literally everything he said. 
But Itachi's shunshin is a bit superior to Kakashi's.


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## Hachibi (Aug 15, 2014)

Bonly solo'ed the thread.
I think exactly as he said


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## RedChidori (Aug 15, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Really dude? Did you really need to make the text that big?
> 
> So far I'd say both Shunshin speed should be around the same area though I'd say the scales might slightly tip in Itachi's favor



Lol don't worry I'll minimize it for ya'll.


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## OG Appachai (Aug 15, 2014)

I believe kakashi is a bit faster, snuck up on kakuzu with a loud ass raikiri before he could react, and kakuzu has some pretty good speed and reaction feats himself too. Havent realy seen may examples of itachi shunshin/running speed. Hand speed top notch though.


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## Mercurial (Aug 15, 2014)

Kakashi is faster than Itachi. Itachi was faster than part 1 Kakashi though.

Kakashi has been portrayed as a speedster since his childhood (1), even by Minato himself who acknowledged him as such (2). With two tomoe Sharingan could blitz jonin and rip them in half with Chidori (3).

He has always been sparring with the absolute master of taijutsu and speed, Maito Gai. Part 1 Kakashi could also dodge and blitz Zabuza several times (4)(5)(6)(7); if you want to say "well but Zabuza lost his mind at that moment" I think it's true just on a certain point, remember that Kakashi was out of shape, first thing, but was also really exhausted at that point. Kakashi could open at least the 1st Gate (8), powering up his speed and strength, already on really good levels. With a really high level of speed and Sharingan precog, even if he had low stamina, Shunshin + Raikiri was already a S-rank trouble... and in Shippuden with Kakashi's speed feats it became a really dangerous enemy just with the use of his Sharingan, physical speed and Raiton-enhanced CQC.

Shippuden Kakashi could dodge a forest-destroying attack (Kakuzu's Fuuton: Atsugai) at point blank and with his attention divided by the taijutsu fight against Hidan (where, even with an injured arm, he was taking care of him with ease using just a mere kunai against his scythe), keeping up with Kakuzu's masks and taking an eye on team 10 (9)(10)(11) ... and right after that quickly intercept Kakuzu's fast Raiton ninjutsu with Raikiri, saving team 10's asses (12). 

With a little distraction, Kakashi could blitz Kakuzu who didn't even perceive his fast attack (13), even if we know that Kakuzu has so fine reflexes and perception skills that he can perceive Shikamaru's Kagemane (who obviously doesn't make any noise) approaching his back (14). It's worth note that Kakashi attacked so fast that even Hidan and the team 10 members, who were facing Kakuzu and so had free sight of what was happening behind him, were completely surprised. Kakashi could nearly blitz Asura Path with his raw speed, dodging his attacks and appearing at his back (15)(16). 

Kakashi is so fast that he was paced two times with Gated Gai (17) and managed to counterblitz the V2 who were ganbanging KCM Naruto and Bee landing Raikiri on them[ (18). Kakashi, right after regaining his mindset, outreacted and outspeeded Obito (19)() who had the same physical speed of no Shunshin KCM Naruto (21). Kakashi was also called fast by Obito when he quickly appeared at his back (22). Kakashi also proved to be faster and better in CQC than Obito more than once (23)(24)(25). Kakashi could also canonically move and react at least on  KCM Minato in physical speed (26) and without Sharingan could easily intercept Sakura (27) and even Kaguya's bone projectiles (28) from a long distance.

Itachi's feats are really really oustanding but Kakashi's speed feats are definitely better and more impressive and he is also more hyped as a speedster than Itachi is.


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## richard lewis (Aug 15, 2014)

Now that kakashi can use PS I'm just gunna say he's faster, lol why not. At this point kishi has pretty much just gone DBZ/Gundam with the manga.... Hell I wouldn't be surprised if he's faster than Ei at this point


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## Mercurial (Aug 15, 2014)

Well if you count also ninjutsu like Perfect Susanoo and Kamui teleportation ofc Kakashi is far far far faster than Itachi. Anyway he is definitely faster in physical speed too.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 15, 2014)

I've always been under the impression all shunshins move at about the same super human speed, and the difference between users was their reflexive ability to charge and release it, as well as the distance that they can cover with it.  

So if a Jonin and a genin both used shunshin on 1, 2, 3, GO! to move 10 feet, both would arrive ten feet away at the same time.  But a Genin might only be able to go 10 feet, while the the Jonin can go 50 feet.  If you threw a shuriken at a Genin, and asked them to shunshin out of the way, the genin wouldn't have the speed and reflexes to react to the shuriken in time to mold the chakra and distribute it to flicker out of the way, and probably need to normal dodge.  While the Jonin would instantly react to it with a shunshin.

So a ninja's speed/reflexes would determine how quickly they can go from zero-shunshin, while overall stamina would determine how much chakra they can build up and keep built up for long distance shunshins.  That's just how I always viewed shunshins, anyway.


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## Empathy (Aug 16, 2014)

Itachi should be marginally faster than base Kakashi. Kakashi with _Kaimon_ opened should be faster, though.


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## Akitō (Aug 16, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> So if a Jonin and a genin both used shunshin on 1, 2, 3, GO! to move 10 feet, both would arrive ten feet away at the same time.



Then why is A's shunshin considered to be so hard to dodge? If all shunshin are the same speed, you'd think that Sasuke would've been able to react to his movements. Do you think that if a genin used a shunshin from a short distance away (i.e. a distance that a genin's shunshin could cover), they'd be able to get past Sasuke's vision like A did?


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 16, 2014)

Akitō said:


> Then why is A's shunshin considered to be so hard to dodge? If all shunshin are the same speed, you'd think that Sasuke would've been able to react to his movements. Do you think that if a genin used a shunshin from a short distance away (i.e. a distance that a genin's shunshin could cover), they'd be able to get past Sasuke's vision like A did?



Ei's shunshin is hard to dodge because his reflexes are on par with Minato during RnY.  He also has bijuu level chakra to spend, so he maintain a shunshin ready state for extended periods of time, and also maintain a high enough charge to chain his shunshins.  ...as well as shunshin from incredible distances.  That's why Shi wondered why Raikage was keeping his chakra level high when he was standing there waiting for Sasuke to use his MS, and why he kept appearing in front of and behind and all around Sasuke.  

His shunshin is also considered so hard to dodge, because his RnY and super durable body allow him to be reckless with his shunshins.  Most ninja wouldn't want to shunshin straight into someone, for the same reason Lee said that he could never charge straight at someone with full speed from a distance like Sasuke does with chidori.  He'd run straight into their kunai, or some kind of counter.  Ei not only has the reflexes to change his course, but he has the defence that allows him to not worry about counters.  He can crash through their counter to smash them, and if they dodge, like Minato did, he'll just turn around and shunshin into them again while they're mid-evasion.  Which he planned to do with Minato, and did to Sasuke.

When you combine the reflexes to read an opening alter course, with the chakra to chain successive shunshins, starting at incredible distances, with the offence to crush anyone you rush into, and the defence to do so without any worries of reprisal, you get a large mean shunshin machine.

Following that, the answer to your question about genin using shunshin to dodge Ameterasu with their shunshin range, the answer would be technically yes, with a deal breaking caveat.  That genin would have to have their shunshin prepared already, and the reflexes to read the activation of Ameterasu, and activate his shunshin right after Sasuke designates his Ametersu target, but right before the jutsu is executed.  The best example of a genin using shunshin to go toe to toe with a naturally faster opponent is Sasuke v.s. Haku.  Sasuke was using repeated shunshins and superior taijutsu to keep up with Haku's 4.0 speed, which is Jonin standard, and .5 taijutsu prior to the mirror segment.  If that makes you wonder why Lee rocked him with less speed, it's because Lee was a specialist in taijutsu in addition to being way faster.

Sasuke could react, but not effectively.  Every time Sasuke tried to move or readjust his aim, Raikage saw it, and shunshined again, which effectively left him paralyzed.  They were successive shunshins, and in and out of his field of vision, which broke down Sasuke's sharingan precog and style.  A similar thing happened vs Bee's 7 Sword Dance.  Sasuke's eye was going crazy deciphering the movements, but he needed to be readjusting so constantly, it left him stumbling and unsure what to do when he hit the limits of his own natural speed and movement economy (taijutsu).  To go anymore into it would be require me to explain what I think of Sasuke, and why I think sharingan+shunshin is an imperfect shortcut to becoming a psuedo-speedster.  Which I will if you ask, because you're cool, even if Sasuke isn't.


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## Animal Realm (Aug 16, 2014)

I see no reason why Kakashi shouldn't be faster. He has a lot more chakra, his speed has been complimented many times, and although Itachi has higher speed stats in the DB (which I barely rate anyway) shunshin is a ninjutsu, which they both are equal in stats, and Kakashi is older, with more chakra and more experience. 

I don't see it being a large gap though, I'd say they are roughly equal. Both have awesome reactions and speed, enhanced with Sharingan. Both are top notch.


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## Ashi (Aug 16, 2014)

Kakashi was able to tussle with Obito

His speed should be above Itachi's


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## SSMG (Aug 16, 2014)

Forgive my ignorance but when has itachi used any good shunshins?


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## Akitō (Aug 17, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Most ninja wouldn't want to shunshin straight into someone, for the same reason Lee said that he could never charge straight at someone with full speed from a distance like Sasuke does with chidori.  He'd run straight into their kunai, or some kind of counter.



If you're able to shunshin at the level that A can, you wouldn't need to worry about your enemy's counterattacks. Minato barely managed to even react to A. Do you really think that chūnin would be able to defend themselves against that? I'm not sure if shinobi can tell when other shinobi are using about to use shunshin, but if they can't a genin vs. genin battle would just be a contest of who can use shunshin first unless they literally always have kunai sticking out of their frontside, which we know they don't.


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## Kazekage94 (Aug 18, 2014)

Stop complaining you guys know Chidori makes his texts large so stfu.

I don't really like Kakashi right now, so Itachi Solos


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## ShinobisWill (Aug 18, 2014)

I think Kakashi and Itachi are roughly equal in speed. I'd give the edge to healthy Itachi but equal if sick.


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## trance (Aug 18, 2014)

Both should be approximately on the same level but I'd say that Itachi's is slightly faster.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 19, 2014)

The only thing Itachi has going for him is when he appeared behind Killer Bee and could have killed him there, though Bee stated he knew he was there. KCM Naruto casually guarded against his shunshin, and when Bee brought out the blades Itachi ran. 

At their best they're equal, feat-wise and alive, Kakashi was faster. Edo Itachi spamming shunshin without drawbacks is equal to Living Kakashi.

Kakashi, however, has superior ocular and mental reaction speed (Kamuing Truthseekers, reacting to Kaguya's chakra arms, warping KCM Naruto and diverted Raiton Kunai with almost no time). 

I tell you what though, Kakashi moved as fast toward Zetsu as KCM Minato did considering he was on the other side [1], aside from appearing at Naruto at the same speed as Gated Gai [2]- though the more impressive part was appearing there before Obito could touch Naruto in the head with a hand less than an inch away from his face [3]. His feats against the Jins and Obito individually speak for themselves- more consistent and impressive than Itachi's. 

If I had to pick one, it'd be Kakashi, his feats are more impressive.


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## Trojan (Aug 19, 2014)

itachi does not have that great of feats in term of speed whatsoever. However, we know that itachi up to the DB3
is faster than Kakashi. It has been a very long time since then, so it might be in Kakashi's favour now, who knows. U_U


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## Wonder_Y (Aug 19, 2014)

Shunshin is a jutsu + Itachi owned Kakashi in terms of jutsu speed= Itachi's Shunshin is faster. 

The point being that Itachi's speed in kneading chakra is far beyond Kakashi's. Kakashi showed improvement in kneading speed versus Naruto and Sakura, but they were still able to notice the action happening. Meanwhile, Itachi was able to completley evade notice amidst CQC by Sasuke who had a well mastered Sharingan. If Kakashi's jutsu kneading speed were that of a clap, Itachi's would be that of two fingers already primed snapping together. So if they react at the very same moment Itachi with the more skilled activation would surely leave first from their starting position.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 19, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Really dude? Did you really need to make the text that big?
> 
> So far I'd say both Shunshin speed should be around the same area though I'd say the scales might slightly tip in Itachi's favor



Agree with Bonly...


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