# Obama Shirt Stirs Anger



## Altron (May 14, 2008)

> Curious’ shirt choice
> Critics call tavern’s Obama design racist
> Jay Fitzgerald By Jay Fitzgerald
> Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - Updated 2h ago
> ...



Here is a picture of the shirt:



They shouldn't bring Curious George into the political race.


Link:


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## Hothien (May 14, 2008)

Was wondering when the overt racism would start popping up.

oh, and here's the sign out front:


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

god bless america the greatest nation in the world which will hang itself by a rope made of racism


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## Diamed (May 14, 2008)

> god bless america the greatest nation in the world which will hang itself by a rope made of multiculturalism



Fixed for you. <3


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

it was the heartland that gave unbelievable support to obama and pushed him to frontrunner status diamed, can your super white people be so wrong?  

BTW obama is half white, kiss his feet.


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## lava (May 14, 2008)

Amen Diamend Glad there are others that understand theres  a little to "much" of something in this country.


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## Gooba (May 14, 2008)

Stuff like this makes me like superdelegates more and more.


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## Elim Rawne (May 14, 2008)

Diamed said:


> i'm gay for you. <3



**fixed**


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## drache (May 14, 2008)

Diamed said:


> Fixed for you. <3


 
Thank you Diamed for your flaming racism  good to know that things don't change much.



lava said:


> Amen Diamend Glad there are others that understand theres a little to "much" of something in this country.


 
You're right there's too "much" *STUPIDITY*  and *HATE* in this country.

Thank you for trying to make sure we have more.


About the topic:

*sigh* Why is it that the conservatives as a rule tend to be such hidebound flaming racists and then act like they just didn't get caught? I mean seriously I'm starting to be tempted to draw parallels between thier actions and me catching my catch sitting on my laptop (which he knows he's not suppose to do and acts like he wasn't doing it when I see him doing it).


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## neko-sennin (May 14, 2008)

Tacky and tasteless, but he's entitled to his opinion.



Altron said:


> They shouldn't bring Curious George into the political race.



Too late. They already did last time:



*groan*

Welcome back, Diamed. Burn any good books lately?


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## The Fireball Kid (May 14, 2008)

What a douchebag. Racism is just cowardly and shows how big of an idiot a person is, that they need to make shots at a person's race to judge their character.


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## Trov (May 14, 2008)

My opinion:

How is it racist? I mean we constantly consider our current president Bush a monkey on several occasions. Better yet, he's considered Curious George on more than half those occasions. It's a joke to many, and now when it's suddenly Obama, it's racist? Oh man, Boortz was right, the race card is starting to be played.

I like how they also described him as Ultra-conservative... oooh, he must be racists. Those damn der' conservative hicks are obviously racists...


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## Lezard Valeth (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> My opinion:
> 
> How is it racist? I mean we constantly consider our current president Bush a monkey on several occasions. Better yet, he's considered Curious George on more than half those occasions. It's a joke to many, and now when it's suddenly Obama, it's racist? Oh man, Boortz was right, the race card is starting to be played.
> 
> I like how they also described him as Ultra-conservative... oooh, he must be racists. Those damn der' conservative hicks are obviously racists...


You're a hypocrite, Bush was depicted as such because of his stupid and unpopular decisions, and his inability to make a sentence correctly.

When did Obama do anything that could deserve him to be depicted as such? Out of the three candidates h's obviously the most intelligent. So yes, it's pure racism in this case.



Trov said:


> Morons.


Why do you need to resort to flaming all the times? =/


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## Adonis (May 14, 2008)

Oooh, Diamed has reared his pretty little head four posts in; this thread must be good.


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## Amaretti (May 14, 2008)

lava said:


> Amen Diamend Glad there are others that understand theres  a little to "much" of something in this country.



Would that 'much' be non-white people?


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## Hisagi (May 14, 2008)

I get the idea, but wonder "how is it racist" while also wondering "Whos the ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) that came up with that idea"


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## FitzChivalry (May 14, 2008)

It's not that subtle.

Trov, get off your pedestal. Calling black people monkies has always been viewed as racist, period. Bush was compared to a monkey because he's an idiot who can hardly make a coherent sentence. So what's Obama done to warrant being compared to one? Answer please.

Either it was an egregious calculation or a disastrous oversight. Either way, the man should've known what was coming when he made that.


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## Pilaf (May 14, 2008)

lava said:


> Amen Diamend Glad there are others that understand theres  a little to "much" of something in this country.



 Says a person who apparently believes five different people can be elected President.


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## DaNuKA_SAN (May 14, 2008)

Remind me again why Dubya Bushes face is on an Obama t-shirt?


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## Pilaf (May 14, 2008)

DaNuKA_SAN said:


> Remind me again why Dubya Bushes face is on an Obama t-shirt?



Conservatives are easily confused. Since they don't believe in science and education they really can't tell a monkey from a man.


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## HAL 9000 (May 14, 2008)

Ahhhh that's good old fashioned family racism.


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## Shodai (May 14, 2008)

lol,        America.


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## Simulacrum (May 14, 2008)

Oh golly! This offends me, so let's hold rallies and revoke his first amendment rights! THAT'S THE AMERICAN WAY  



Amaretti said:


> Would that 'much' be offended people?



Fixed. 

And the answer is yes. 

I particularly like how the guy who made the t-shirts was only give a one-word quote in defense of his action yet it was not stated that he wouldn't talk about it, or that they even tried to contact him at all. If the guy was actually being racist then it would have been quoted, guaranteed. So, the article writer didn't include a potential interview that would have dispelled the racism allegation or didn't bother to contact him directly at all, so this article was designed as a sound bite for easy consumption by the dumb masses. Score another one of biased media.


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## Hothien (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> Oh golly! This offends me, so let's hold rallies and revoke his first amendment rights! THAT'S THE AMERICAN WAY



Noone has said that he should be silenced. We just think he's retarded and racist. Stating that someone is racist is just practicing our own free speech.


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## Kira (May 14, 2008)

Amaretti said:


> Would that 'much' be non-white people?


You hit the nail on the head.



Simulacrum said:


> Oh golly! This offends me, so let's hold rallies and revoke his first amendment rights! THAT'S THE AMERICAN WAY


Funny thing is that bigots of all kinds always use this argument. That must say something about you right?

Anyway just like people are free to be racist, others are free to condemn them. Freedom of speech works both ways.


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## Simulacrum (May 14, 2008)

Orochimaru-Sama said:


> Funny thing is that bigots of all kinds always use this argument. That must say something about you right?
> 
> Anyway just like people are free to be racist, others are free to condemn them. Freedom of speech works both ways.



I find it funny that people are calling him racist and a bigot when nobody has heard his reasoning for making the shirts, and even in this very thread the same people who are crying racism are defending the use of the very same cartoon monkey to characterize GW Bush. Prejudice is prejudice. 

Also, you'd do well not to try and fit me inside your little social boxes. You have no idea who or what I am, where I come from, or why I think the way I do.


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## Hothien (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> I find it funny that people are calling him racist and a bigot when nobody has heard his reasoning for making the shirts, and even in this very thread the same people who are crying racism are defending the use of the very same cartoon monkey to characterize GW Bush. Prejudice is prejudice.
> 
> Also, you'd do well not to try and fit me inside your little social boxes. You have no idea who or what I am, where I come from, or why I think the way I do.



This is southern USA. As a person living in southern USA, I know quite well what the implications of the shirt is, and if that was not his intent (which I doubt - look at the sign out in front of his establishment, for example), then he's a blooming idiot. That's a common racial slur used in the south, and as a person living in the south, he'd be very well aware of it.

So, he's a retard, or a racist.


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## Simulacrum (May 14, 2008)

Yes, Willaien, you do want to judge him before you actually hear him out. I understand that. That's also why you're a flaming moron, and hypocritical for vilifying him for being southern. 

He might be racist, but at the very least an intelligent person who lives in the USA wouldn't be so rabidly, willfully prejudice towards someone over this. Claiming guilt by accusation is the epitome of idiocy.


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## Hothien (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> Yes, Willaien, you do want to judge him before you actually hear him out. I understand that. That's also why you're a flaming moron, and hypocritical for vilifying him for being southern.
> 
> He might be racist, but at the very least an intelligent person who lives in the USA wouldn't be so rabidly, willfully prejudice towards someone over this. Claiming guilt by accusation is the epitome of idiocy.



What? I'm saying that as a person that lives in the south, he'd be damn well aware of the implications of that association. He's either racist or retarded.


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## drache (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> Oh golly! This offends me, so let's hold rallies and revoke his first amendment rights! THAT'S THE AMERICAN WAY
> 
> Fixed.
> 
> ...


 
Yes it's fallacy time!

First when did anyone (even in the article) say we should silience the man?

Second what does the amount of words directly from the man have to do with whether what he did was racist?

Third how is it the media's fault and where did you prove a bais?


Fourth, a question and a challenge if you will, can you're next post not be a smoking mess of hypocrisy and fallacy?


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## Aokiji (May 14, 2008)

Wait a minute:



> The tavern owner, described as an ?ultra-conservative,? has since seen his Marietta, Ga., establishment picketed by outraged critics who say the characterization of presidental candidate Barack Obama as a monkey is racist.



WTF?! How is this racist? If you call a white person a monkey, it's just an insult, but if you insult a black it's racist. Why? Aren't you being racist by admitting that there's a natural similarity between monkeys and blacks? 

The t-shirt is obviously made in racist intention, but what I don't get is: How stupid can an anti-racist person be to claim that calling a black person a monkey is racist? Aren't you kind of admitting that black=monkey? 



> Earlier this year, loudmouth radio jock Rush Limbaugh apologized on air for laughing at a caller?s comment that her daughter thought Obama looked like Curious George.



Great, now laughing at random shit warrants apology. 



neko-sennin said:


> Tacky and tasteless, but he's entitled to his opinion.



 Hey neko-sennin, I think yo mamma is a ho. Am I entitled to my opinion, too?














I was obviously not serious, just showing the stupidity of this "He's stupid, but the constitution grants him the right to be stupid" or "he's entitled to his opinion" shit.



Cell said:


> What a douchebag. Racism is just *cowardly* and shows how big of an idiot a person is, that they need to make shots at a person's race to judge their character.



Wait. Of all negative adjective you hat to use "cowardly"? If anything, they are brave, cuz they have an opinion that is very unpopular. Stupid they may be, but certainly not cowards, that adjective fits "non-racist" people, that yell "RACIST!!!!  YOU'RE STUPID FUCK YOU!!" without actually debating with them, but following popular opinion, because thay are scared to have an opinion considered shit.

If you are not a bigot, at least be not one for the right reasons.



Pilaf said:


> Conservatives are easily confused. Since they don't believe in science and education they really can't tell a monkey from a man.



sigged


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## Masaki (May 14, 2008)

Now, though I have to despise the racism, I think the irony of all of this is that we call Bush a monkey all the time.


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## Mintaka (May 14, 2008)

Wow.

Somone doesn't seem to know that the confedarecy lost the war now do they?


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## Aokiji (May 14, 2008)

Tokoyami said:


> Wow.
> 
> Somone doesn't seem to know that the confedarecy lost the war now do they?



Being racist=/=being in favor of slavery.


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## Kira (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> I find it funny that people are calling him racist and a bigot when nobody has heard his reasoning for making the shirts, and even in this very thread the same people who are crying racism are defending the use of the very same cartoon monkey to characterize GW Bush. Prejudice is prejudice.
> 
> Also, you'd do well not to try and fit me inside your little social boxes. You have no idea who or what I am, where I come from, or why I think the way I do.


I have heard him out. He said that it was because of Obama's ears and hairline, which I find difficult to believe. Even if it is true it can still be interpreted as racist and people cannot be faulted for that given the history. Just because this article doesn't state his opinions doesn't mean that I am not aware of them.

In any case I don't care about who or what you are or anything else. I know for a fact that alot of people use freedom of speech to justify racism. You only have to look at something like the BNP and the arguments that they use.


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## Simulacrum (May 14, 2008)

So... it's bigotry and racism because you say it is? Well, that's what you're making it sound like by saying that people can't be faulted for believing it's racism. 

I'm curious. What of Obama's relationship to Wright? Wright sure is crazy, so I guess Obama is also crazy and believes the same things Wright does because they have such a close relationship. It doesn't matter that Obama has come out claiming he doesn't share those views, because according to you my perception trumps anything the guy says in his own defense if I happen to find it "hard to believe".


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## LiveFire (May 14, 2008)

Bastards 

I have a shirt of Obama that says Obama is my Homeboy  There's also one I want that has him and Hilary on it, and says Bro's before Ho's


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## Aokiji (May 14, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> Wait a minute:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I want answers.


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

watever, winners don't care for loser's whining


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## Hothien (May 14, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> I want answers.



It is the intent of the person making the statement that matters, and since that has been used in the past as a blatantly racist slur, we assume that, with this person knowing the intents it has been used for in the past, they would have only used it in this context for that purpose.


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## Kira (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> So... it's bigotry and racism because you say it is? Well, that's what you're making it sound like by saying that people can't be faulted for believing it's racism.
> 
> I'm curious. What of Obama's relationship to Wright? Wright sure is crazy, so I guess Obama is also crazy and believes the same things Wright does because they have such a close relationship. It doesn't matter that Obama has come out claiming he doesn't share those views, because according to you my perception trumps anything the guy says in his own defense if I happen to find it "hard to believe".



I stated that people have used freedom of speech to justify racism and this is a fact. You don't seem to understand that. I also said that it is understandable that certain people will associate the t shirt with racism.  

In addition there is a difference between making a t shirt and someone you know saying things. You have full control of the process of making a t shirt however you can have little or no control over what another indvidual says or how they act.  If you can't see that difference then I am just wasting my time. However if you believe that Obama shares the same views as Wright then you are free to so and this is understandable as well.


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## Gooba (May 14, 2008)

How is judging one guy by his actions (making the shirt) similar to judging another guy by someone else's action (Obama and Wright)?  Calling a black man a monkey is racist because it has always been racist, the same way using the n word is.  Racists used to call black people monkeys all the time as part of dehumanizing them and putting them below whites.  I don't judge him as racist because he lives in the south, because he is described as "ultra-conservative" or any other reason besides the fact that he put a widely known racial slur on a tshirt.


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## Bender (May 14, 2008)

That shirt is so cute 

Sometimes Racism can be so cute 

I just love it 

If I ever see someone wear this shirt be sure I,ll give you a big hug and smack on the cheek


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## Simulacrum (May 14, 2008)

Orochimaru-Sama said:


> I stated that people have used freedom of speech to justify racism and this is a fact. You don't seem to understand that. I also said that it is understandable that certain people will associate the t shirt with racism.
> 
> In addition there is a difference between making a t shirt and someone you know saying things. You have full control of the process of making a t shirt however you can have little or no control over what another indvidual says or how they act.  If you can't see that difference then I am just wasting my time. *However if you believe that Obama shares the same views as Wright then you are free to so and this is understandable as well*.



Good to know. 



			
				Gooba said:
			
		

> How is judging one guy by his actions (making the shirt) similar at all to judging another guy by someone else's action (Obama and Wright)? Calling a black man a monkey is racist because it has always been racist, the same way using the n word is. Racists used to call black people monkeys all the time as part of dehumanizing them and putting them below whites. I don't judge him as racist because he lives in the south, because he is described as "ultra-conservative" or any other reason besides the fact that he put a widely known racial slur on a tshirt.


 See above. Obama spent decades in friendship with Wright, and even defended him after it hit the presses. Obama is not separate from Wright, and if that's what you really think then you should stop drinking the kool-aide. 

Also, secular beliefs state that people evolved from primates. If you are saying it's wrong for this guy to compare Obama to Curious George then you're anti-science!


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## Bender (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> See above. Obama spent decades in friendship with Wright, and even defended him after it hit the presses. Obama is not separate from Wright, and if that's what you really think then you should stop drinking the kool-aide.



So you're saying that whole bullshit about him him saying he would now seperate himself from Wright is fake? I don't think he would especiallly since the man called him "Insincere".


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## Gooba (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> So, since Obama spent so many years listening to Wright, and being so close to Wright for most of his adult life, and even after Wright's craziness came to light he defended Wright, so it's understandable for me to think that Obama shares Wright's views.
> 
> Good to know.
> 
> See above. Obama spent decades in friendship with Wright, and even defended him after it hit the presses. Obama is not separate from Wright, and if that's what you really think then you should stop drinking the kool-aide.


Firstly, that isn't true at all.  Being friends with someone doesn't mean you share all their views, and neither does being in their congregation.  Secondly, it isn't relavent to this thread.



> Also, secular beliefs state that people evolved from primates. If you are saying it's wrong for this guy to compare Obama to Curious George then you're anti-science!


There is a difference when there are hundreds of years of racism behind the comparison.


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## drache (May 14, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> I want answers.


 
Then I suggest you read a book on the history of racism.

Racists have tried to dehumanize people they consider inferior to make it easier to rationalize thier illogical and irrational hate.




Simulacrum said:


> Good to know.
> 
> See above. Obama spent decades in friendship with Wright, and even defended him after it hit the presses. Obama is not separate from Wright, and if that's what you really think then you should stop drinking the kool-aide.
> 
> Also, secular beliefs state that people evolved from primates. If you are saying it's wrong for this guy to compare Obama to Curious George then you're anti-science!


 

You are an idiot really.


People should just ignore this massive smoking fallacy because it distracts from the discussion and is off topic.


Calling someone who is black a monkey or comparing them to a monkey has a long history of being racially motivated and it's still used today.

If you don't understand then the you need to reenroll in your US history class or complain to the teacher because you've missed a huge portion of history.


And Obama and Wright are 2 seperate people, they are not clones, stop suggesting they are.

That's even more stupidier then normal to suggest.


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## Simulacrum (May 14, 2008)

Gooba said:


> Firstly, that isn't true at all.  Being friends with someone doesn't mean you share all their views, and neither does being in their congregation.  Secondly, it isn't relavent to this thread.


 Birds of a feather. Isn't that the whole basis behind the racism allegations? 



> There is a difference when there are hundreds of years of racism behind the comparison.


 But it's science!


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## Hothien (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> Birds of a feather. Isn't that the whole basis behind the racism allegations?



What? No. Do you just like to troll, or something?


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## Simulacrum (May 14, 2008)

Willaien said:


> What? No. Do you just like to troll, or something?



Liar. 



			
				Willaien said:
			
		

> *This is southern USA*. As a person living in southern USA, I know quite well what the implications of the shirt is, and if that was not his intent (which I doubt - look at the sign out in front of his establishment, for example), then he's a blooming idiot. That's a common racial slur used in the south, and as a person living in the south, he'd be very well aware of it.
> 
> So, he's a retard, or a racist.


 Your major evidence supporting the racism allegation is that the man is among southerners, as if it were in the north east or mid west he would be exempt of the charge. If that's not "birds of a feather" then I don't know what is.


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## Hothien (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> Liar.
> 
> Your major evidence supporting the racism allegation is that the man is among southerners, as if it were in the north east or mid west he would be exempt of the charge. If that's not "birds of a feather" then I don't know what is.



I'm stating that he cannot plead ignorance. I'm not stating that he is racist *because* he is southern, I'm stating that the he cannot plead ignorance to the meaning of what he did. In southern culture, what he did is racist, and he should be aware of that, being a southern person. 

In other words, he has no excuse. He is not racist because he is southern, but what he did can only be interpreted as racist because he is southern.

I'm judging him based upon his own actions, and his presumed knowledge.

You are stating that Obama is racist *because* of his surroundings, not because of his actions. I'm stating that this guy is racist *because of his actions*, and that due to his surroundings, he cannot claim that he didn't know it was racist.

If you cannot tell the difference, then I truly feel sorry for you.


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## Tsukiyomi (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> My opinion:
> 
> How is it racist? I mean we constantly consider our current president Bush a monkey on several occasions. Better yet, he's considered Curious George on more than half those occasions. It's a joke to many, and now when it's suddenly Obama, it's racist? Oh man, Boortz was right, the race card is starting to be played.
> 
> ...



You are aware that monkey and porch monkey are racial slurs against black people right?


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## HAL 9000 (May 14, 2008)

To explain to everyone why everyone is angry about this:


			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> Monkey
> (UK) a black person. Also used by white people in Southeast Asia to describe local people


Source:


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## Adonis (May 14, 2008)

Tsukiyomi said:


> You are aware that monkey and porch monkey are racial slurs against black people right?



It's better to remain oblivious so one can rant about how White America is being toppled by political correctness.

Every act of racism becomes the boy who cried wolf.


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## Hothien (May 14, 2008)

Zephos said:


> While denying the possibility that this man wasn't thinking and fucked up is in of itself illogical.



True, like I said, he's either retarded (sorry, but, considering where he lives, you'd have to be fucked up in the head to not realize the link) or racist. My intentions for the 'retarded' part included: 'oh, wasn't thinking' or 'oh, I didn't know' (how sheltered could you be, considering that this is a bar?)


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## Zephos (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> But it's science!



In case people are wondering this is the "LALALALA NOT LISTENING" method in action.


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

Zephos said:


> But seriously, I don't believe people have never heard of the slur implications.
> Christ, I grew up in Connecticut. As far from the south as culturally as it gets. Yet I heard about all these things growing up, "porch monkey" "Jungle bunny".
> 
> I thought it was common knowledge.



common sense escapes conservative trolls posters


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 14, 2008)

Altron said:


> Here is a picture of the shirt:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Hey I like Curious George and I like Obama, this seems like win-win to me. 

Oh but on a serious note, I deleted someone from my myspace months back for something like this. To basically put it into short terms, they posted a bulletin entitled "Why Obama won't be President" and when I opened it I expected to see real reasons. But all there was in there was a video of a Gorilla pissing in its own mouth (you know the one). 

I didn't ask why, I deleted them.


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Hey I like Curious George and I like Obama, this seems like win-win to me.
> 
> Oh but on a serious note, I deleted someone from my myspace months back for something like this. To basically put it into short terms, they posted a bulletin entitled "Why Obama won't be President" and when I opened it I expected to see real reasons. But all there was in there was a video of a Gorilla pissing in its own mouth (you know the one).
> 
> I didn't ask why, I deleted them.



haha, it is a cute shirt 

but seriously, this is just the tip of the iceberg , expect diameds to weigh in as obama's victory becomes more certain


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## Frunk (May 14, 2008)

9Tail-Hokage said:


> It's not that subtle.
> 
> Trov, get off your pedestal. Calling black people monkies has always been viewed as racist, period. Bush was compared to a monkey because he's an idiot who can hardly make a coherent sentence. So what's Obama done to warrant being compared to one? Answer please.
> 
> Either it was an egregious calculation or a disastrous oversight. Either way, the man should've known what was coming when he made that.



What Obama has done to deserve this:

Refused to denounce racist pastor
Openly lied about overturning NAFTA
Threatened to bomb Pakistan, our ally
Been extremely ignorant about how war works
Been extremely ignorant about how the economy works
Been a socialist
Opposed capitalism
Wanted to tax people because they are successful
Opposed nuclear power, even though it is by far the cleanest and most efficient power source


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

Frunk said:


> What Obama has done to deserve this:
> 
> Refused to denounce racist pastor
> Openly lied about overturning NAFTA
> ...



did anyone else deserve a racist tshirt then?


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## Bender (May 14, 2008)

It's funny whenever something happens to black people people brush it off but when it's against white people it's a big deal 

Oh how I love how this world works


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## Frunk (May 14, 2008)

Okay, I'm going to openly admit I was just being incredibly stupid.  With saying that.

No, Barack Obama does not deserve to have a racist shirt made about him.  I was trying to debate the fact that it isn't necessarily racist, but people couldn't dare believe that maybe the shirt is just calling him stupid and not insulting his race.

Another thing, isn't it racist to suggest that there should be different standards about insulting people.  Wouldn't that infer that black people are different, and isn't that the main base for all racist views.


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## Bender (May 14, 2008)

Frunk said:


> Another thing, isn't it racist to suggest that there should be different standards about insulting people.  Wouldn't that infer that black people are different, and isn't that the main base for all racist views.



Look at today man, yes most of the racist hatred is going towards black people.. I'm not saying we're different but the acts of racism towards us is *different* It's insulting and just plain rude as well as disgusting. Just because people can't do anything better than our next president of the United States people are being a bunch of bitches and putting his ass down with shit like calling him "Curious George". Racism isn't just pathetic it's cowardly and showing your jealously and bitch-assness. To anyone who can't even come up with an insult they resort to the word "^ (use bro)" or call us monkeys.

Compared to the other racism of today it's the black people that get treated the worst. (That's in my oppinion) I haven't seen any other racist acts but yes I believe this to be the worst.


----------



## Zephos (May 14, 2008)

Frunk said:


> I was trying to debate the fact that it isn't necessarily racist, but people couldn't dare believe that maybe the shirt is just calling him stupid and not insulting his race.
> 
> Another thing, isn't it racist to suggest that there should be different standards about insulting people.  Wouldn't that infer that black people are different, and isn't that the main base for all racist views.



*None of this matters.*
There is an existing racial slur against blacks concerning monkeys.

Thus the potential of the shirt. Thus the problem.

That's the reality of this country.


----------



## sikvod00 (May 14, 2008)

Frunk said:


> Another thing, isn't it racist to suggest that there should be different standards about insulting people. Wouldn't that infer that black people are different, and isn't that the main base for all racist views.


 
Yes, there is a double standard. The reason is that two groups of people have been treated differently and have different experiences. There's an entire history of the word 'monkey' and its variations being used as a racial slur against blacks; the same cannot be said about whites.


----------



## Bender (May 14, 2008)

Another thing 

The resorting to racial slurs has just gone to show that we're making no progress whatsoever


----------



## Frunk (May 14, 2008)

OFFTOPIC:  I just read over the last four pages and with all of the insults about conservatives I'm feeling a little concerned for my life.


----------



## krickitat (May 14, 2008)

I dont understand why we can put president bush into adds and t shirt with chimps (amaing how similar the facial expressions are) and then get upset about a picture of curious george.

the message isnt that curious george is a monkey. The message is that curious george gets curious and then he gets himself into a MESS of trouble because he doesnt know what the hell he is doing. The sign says "DONT PUSH THE BUTTON" but curious george has to push the button because it wouldnt be funny if he didnt.
While some people might equate the t-shirt with the fact that he is a black man arent there more then enough WHITE MEN we equate with monkeys?
When you see a big hairy guy half naked out on the beach how many people would laugh and say he looks like a gorilla? 

I rest my case really....You can make this about black Vs. white all you want but its all ignorance to me.


----------



## Watchman (May 14, 2008)

Don't worry, Frunk. You like KonanxNaruto, so you'll be alright. 

In any case, yeah... conservative slurs are getting a bit over-the-top. Even if Simulacrum seems intent on painting himself as a troll, there's no need to sink to his level.


----------



## Hellion (May 14, 2008)

It amazes me that people don't realize that historically-wise Blacks, in America, have not had equal rights for very long.  While we have have made progress on racist issues, they still exist, and every once in a while some yahoo like the guy in the article will pop up and show that we still have some growing  to do.

With that said, He is an idiot for making a shirt like that, but this is just a small sample of the things to come.  I feel that the racist stuff will get much worse than this


----------



## Zephos (May 14, 2008)

krickitat said:


> I dont understand why we can put president bush into adds and t shirt with chimps (amaing how similar the facial expressions are) and then get upset about a picture of curious george.
> 
> the message isnt that curious george is a monkey. The message is that curious george gets curious and then he gets himself into a MESS of trouble because he doesnt know what the hell he is doing. The sign says "DONT PUSH THE BUTTON" but curious george has to push the button because it wouldnt be funny if he didnt.
> While some people might equate the t-shirt with the fact that he is a black man arent there more then enough WHITE MEN we equate with monkeys?
> ...




Simply put, you need more research/experience regarding racial politics if your thinking of any of the above as a rebuttal. 
It shows blatant ignorance on how slurs work, and let alone exist.


----------



## Kira (May 14, 2008)

It seems that all of the people here arguing that the t shirt is not racist are unaware of the fact that black people have been compared to monkeys among other things frequently in the past. They have very little understanding of racism and the history of it in the USA.


----------



## Iambatman (May 14, 2008)

If obama wins the presidency I think he will be assassinated.

Furthermore I think obama will lose the presidency to mccain due to recounting votes issues like back in 2000.


----------



## Trov (May 14, 2008)

Lezard_Valeth said:


> You're a hypocrite, Bush was depicted as such because of his stupid and unpopular decisions, and his inability to make a sentence correctly.
> 
> When did Obama do anything that could deserve him to be depicted as such? Out of the three candidates h's obviously the most intelligent. So yes, it's pure racism in this case.


So If Obama makes stupid and unpopular decisions, this would be fair game right? Oh wait, no it wouldn't. Because it's racist regardless right. 

You do know that there are people out there that consider Obama stupid. GASP! Dissenting opinions!



9Tail-Hokage said:


> It's not that subtle.
> 
> Trov, get off your pedestal. Calling black people monkies has always been viewed as racist, period. Bush was compared to a monkey because he's an idiot who can hardly make a coherent sentence. So what's Obama done to warrant being compared to one? Answer please.


Oh, I know, calling black people monkies isn't a crowd pleaser. But YOU have to admit the double standard is blinding. Bush is compared to a monkey because people has thought of him as an idiot. Why can't Obama be treated the same? Fuck race. He's a man. A human man, when you can't insult people the same, something is wrong.



Pilaf said:


> Conservatives are easily confused. Since they don't believe in science and education they really can't tell a monkey from a man.


That is so ignorant... Even for you.



Masaki said:


> Now, though I have to despise the racism, I think the irony of all of this is that we call Bush a monkey all the time.


Glad you see the irony.



Tsukiyomi said:


> You are aware that monkey and porch monkey are racial slurs against black people right?


Yea, so?  He's not on a porch, It's curious fucking george.  If we can call Bush that, Obama, McCain, or Clinton are NOT off limits. I don't give a darn about slurs.



Zephos said:


> While denying the possibility that this man wasn't thinking and fucked up is in of itself illogical.
> 
> It's nothing compared to the people refusing to acknowledge the possible racist implications of the shirt. Aokiji, Trov, Simualcram etc.
> You either live under a rock or your trying the "LALALALA IA AM NOT LISTENING" method of debate. In which case, honestly, your only embarrasing yourselves with what amounts to basically trolling.


I NEVER ONCE commented on whether the man had racist intent or not. I just confront the bullshit double standard that needs to stop. If Bush, a white man can be called a monkey. So can a Black man, that simple.



narutosimpson said:


> common sense escapes narutosimpson trolls


I think you messed up there. Don't worry though buddy, fixed it for ya.


I mean, have you guys heard the story of the Obama superdelegate that was arrested for called some black kids monkeys? 

They were jumping on a tree and playing around...

Political correctness needs to stop. If someone wants to call me a monkey. Fine, But they aren't racists just for that. Unless you consider those who compare Bush to monkeys are the same.


----------



## impersonal (May 14, 2008)

neko-sennin said:


> Tacky and tasteless, but he's entitled to his opinion.


To his opinion, yes. To using someone else's intellectual property, no, he's definitely not.


PS: and yes, obviously this shirt is racist. Only a monkey wouldn't understand that (because monkeys are kind of biased in their own favor).
PS2: Well, even a monkey would understand that such a shirt, _made by an ultra-con_, is racist.


----------



## Zephos (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:
			
		

> I NEVER ONCE commented on whether the man had racist intent or not. I just confront the bullshit double standard that needs to stop. If Bush, a white man can be called a monkey. So can a Black man, that simple.



The very essence of slurs is illogical and based on double standards.
They are blights from bygone eras creation. They shouldn't exist. They cause a dichtomy in what someone can call another person, regardless of actual intention.

*But.the.fact.of.the.matter.is.they.do.exist.*

The only way your fantastical scenario will work is if you erase it from the peoples minds.
Explain to me, Trov how you intend to do that.


----------



## Iambatman (May 14, 2008)

If a black person can call a white person the n word   a white person can call a black person a cracker.

since cracker is pretty derogatory towards white people.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> Yea, so? He's not on a porch, It's curious fucking george. If we can call Bush that, Obama, McCain, or Clinton are NOT off limits. I don't give a darn about slurs.



Big difference.  First off Bush's first name is George, so referring to him as Curious George actually has some whit to it.  If I refer to Winston Churchill as Curious George I should have some kind of reason.  I fail to see any reason to refer to Obama in this way.



Trov said:


> I don't give a darn about slurs.



So if the shirt was a picture with Obama and it said "No ^ (use bro) Presidents" you would have no problem with that?


----------



## Zephos (May 14, 2008)

Iambatman said:


> If a black person can call a white person the n word   a white person can call a black person a cracker.
> 
> since cracker is pretty derogatory towards white people.



Since when do white people get called "^ (use bro)"?


----------



## Trov (May 14, 2008)

Zephos said:


> The very essence of slurs is illogical and based on double standards.
> They are blights from bygone eras creation. They shouldn't exist. They cause a dichtomy in what someone can call another person, regardless of actual intention.
> 
> *But.the.fact.of.the.matter.is.they.do.exist.*
> ...



One person at a time. Highlight the bullshit and showcase why it's bullshit.
It's bullshit because it's a double standard. No ifs ands or buts about it. Double standards are stupid, so why defend them.


----------



## Zephos (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:
			
		

> I don't give a darn about slurs.



I can't even comprehend of the incompetence needed to say this with a straight face.


----------



## Iambatman (May 14, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Since when do white people get called "^ (use bro)"?



Well i work with mostly black people so it happens sometime.

Its not usually in a derogatory way though.


----------



## Trov (May 14, 2008)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Big difference.  First off Bush's first name is George, so referring to him as Curious George actually has some whit to it.  If I refer to Winston Churchill as Curious George I should have some kind of reason.  I fail to see any reason to refer to Obama in this way.


Considering I see Obama as an idiot. I can see he in various lights. So bleh.
Although Churchill as Curious George, why not?




> So if the shirt was a picture with Obama and it said "No ^ (use bro) Presidents" you would have no problem with that?



Difference. Big difference. a picture and a word are two different things. Thats not even hiding anything and it doesn't have any other meaning that what it said. a picture can be construed a thousand ways.


----------



## Zephos (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> One person at a time. Highlight the bullshit and showcase why it's bullshit.
> It's bullshit because it's a double standard. No ifs ands or buts about it. Double standards are stupid, so why defend them.



And tada, the "LALAALALAL NOT LISTENING" method rears it's head.

Your completely severing the scenario from reality in order to reason with it.
That's not how politics/sociology works. This is immensly irresponsible thinking.

Yes double standards are illogical. But that dosen't change the way society thinks on the issue. And that way of thinking is deeply rooted in this country due to past sins.

Do you intend to simply ignore that to make it go away?


----------



## Trov (May 14, 2008)

Zephos said:


> I can't even comprehend of the incompetence needed to say this with a straight face.



then don't, get used to it. I'm vulgar like that. I don't really care about something as small as this. People seriously need tougher skins,


----------



## Zephos (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> then don't, get used to it. I'm vulgar like that. I don't really care about something as small as this. People seriously need tougher skins,



The last thing I was thinking was "OH THIS GUY EDGEY", I was thinking more along the lines of "This guy is willfully detached from reality".


----------



## Trov (May 14, 2008)

Zephos said:


> And tada, the "LALAALALAL NOT LISTENING" method rears it's head.
> 
> Your completely severing the scenario from reality in order to reason with it.
> That's not how politics/sociology works. This is immensly irresponsible thinking.
> ...



I intend to change it. Not ignore it, have YOU been listening?

This isn't calling Obama the N-word, it's comparing him to a monkey. People do this all the fucking time, except you take out Obama, and you put in Bush. or even Micheal Jackson and various other celebrities that aren't even black. Sheesh, At some point, you have to realize that the guy could have no racial intention either, something various other people aren't doing. But suddenly, I have to do it because my opinion dissents from the normal.


----------



## Trov (May 14, 2008)

Zephos said:


> The last thing I was thinking was "OH THIS GUY EDGEY", I was thinking more along the lines of "This guy is willfully detached from reality".



I really don't care.


----------



## drache (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> I intend to change it. Not ignore it, have YOU been listening?
> 
> This isn't calling Obama the N-word, it's comparing him to a monkey. *People do this all the fucking time*, except you take out Obama, and you put in Bush. or even Micheal Jackson and various other celebrities that aren't even black. Sheesh, At some point, you have to realize that the guy could have no racial intention either, something various other people aren't doing. But suddenly, I have to do it because my opinion dissents from the normal.


 



Please name 5 people outside of Bush that have been compared to monkeys *for reasons that had to only with a joke and had no racial or ethinical overtones to it*.

I dare you.


Where I live at least most people don't like being compared to monkeys in the first place (because most consider them inferior to humans) and everyone knows that implying a connection between black people and monkeys is a good way to start a riot (or at least a protest depends on the circumstances).


----------



## Zephos (May 14, 2008)

> I intend to change it. Not ignore it, have YOU been listening?



Ignoring something isn't changing it.



> This isn't calling Obama the N-word, it's comparing him to a monkey. People do this all the fucking time,



Therein lies your entire problem.
Your refuse to accept the racial implications of one but not the other.
Monkey could be on the level of ^ (use bro). 



> except you take out Obama, and you put in Bush and various other celebrities that aren't even black. Sheesh, At some point,



The slur is meant for blacks, obviously it doesn't work for white people.



> you have to realize that the guy could have no racial intention either, something various other people aren't doing. But suddenly, I have to do it because my opinion dissents from the normal.



Get _off_ the cross Trov, put down the nail and hammer, and take off the thorns.
*Iv'e* had that stance since I posted on the thread.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> Considering I see Obama as an idiot. I can see he in various lights. So bleh.



Ok, you see him as an idiot, then go with that.  Saying "he's like this monkey" is just being stupid and isn't whitty at all.  Its very different than looking at GEORGE Bush and saying "wow, he's kind of dim and childlike and his name is george, he's like curious george".



Trov said:


> Although Churchill as Curious George, why not?



Because it doesn't make any sense.



Trov said:


> Difference. Big difference. a picture and a word are two different things. Thats not even hiding anything and it doesn't have any other meaning that what it said. a picture can be construed a thousand ways.



A picture and words are different?  So if it showed him as the classic black stereotype with huge lips and nappy hair that wouldn't be racist and would be ok?


----------



## impersonal (May 14, 2008)

trov said:
			
		

> Oh, I know, calling black people monkies isn't a crowd pleaser. But YOU have to admit the double standard is blinding. Bush is compared to a monkey because people has thought of him as an idiot. Why can't Obama be treated the same? Fuck race. He's a man. A human man, when you can't insult people the same, something is wrong.


An insult is in the intent, not in the content. 

For example, in France "enculé" is an insult. "Enculé" means, litterally: "someone who's been fucked in the ass" (yeah, we can say it pretty quickly compared to english, french is such a beautiful language). Well, two gay males can call each others "enculé", and it's still offensive to both of them. The reason for this is that "enculé", as an insult, means pretty much the same as "friend".***

The intent, when someone calls Bush a monkey, is to show that he is a stupid man, because he makes those funny faces. So "monkey", when thrown at Bush, means "retard". The intent, when someone calls Obama a monkey, is to say that he is inferior because of his skin color. So "monkey", when thrown at Obama, doesn't mean "retard"; it means "^ (use bro)". 

What isn't tolerated isn't the term "monkey", but the racism - not the actual content of the insult, but the intent. If you want to say that Bush is an idiot, you can call him a monkey; but you'll have to call Obama a retard, which is a bit more straightforward (and thus less funny) but means exactly the same thing. 

You'll be able to claim there's a double standard once Bush is insulted because of his skin color and the press doesn't notice - it is perhaps the case, I really don't know .
_
***which goes to show that while french people are gay, the rednecks who hate them are incestuous._


----------



## Garlock (May 14, 2008)

Al Sharpton decreed war on the vendor stating he was calling all blacks "Porch Monkeys,"

Its just a shirt, people tend to look at things like ninjas, sometimes there aren't meanings behind the meaning, its just a monkey with a banana!


----------



## drache (May 14, 2008)

Zephos said:


> The slur is meant for blacks, obviously it doesn't work for white people.


 
I'm actually curious how those defending this as not possibly racial would feel if they were call ______ (insert a racial slur apporiate to your ethincity).

Personally as I'm balantly Irish (red hair and all) I've been called a mick a few times and frankly I dispised it.


----------



## Trov (May 14, 2008)

drache said:


> Please name 5 people outside of Bush that have been compared to monkeys *for reasons that had to only with a joke and had no racial or ethinical overtones to it*.
> 
> I dare you.


Link removed

There ya go!(The flava fla one is obviously racist by the way)



Zephos said:


> Ignoring something isn't changing it.


 I'm not ignoring it.



> Therein lies your entire problem.
> Your refuse to accept the racial implications of one but not the other.
> Monkey could be on the level of ^ (use bro).


Monkey is not on the level of that. Plain and simple. I think Monkey is an insult too. But I don't think it's anywhere near that level.  Nor should it be seen as that. 




> The slur is meant for blacks, obviously it doesn't work for white people.


And I intend to make it not work for blacks either. First step is to let it roll off my back. reinforcing the train of thought isn't helping.



> Get _off_ the cross Trov, put down the nail and hammer, and take off the thorns.
> *Iv'e* had that stance since I posted on the thread.



I... I like the cross.(And it doesn't seem like it)


----------



## impersonal (May 14, 2008)

trov said:
			
		

> And I intend to make it not work for blacks either. First step is to let it roll off my back. reinforcing the train of thought isn't helping.


So I suppose the same goes for "^ (use bro)": you just have to "let it roll off [your] back".


----------



## drache (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> Link removed
> 
> There ya go!(The flava fla one is obviously racist by the way)


 


So you admit that the *ONLY *picture of a  black person you included is obviously racist


And yet you persist in defending this?


I give up, either you're so stupid that I honestly don't know how you can breath or you're a troll. Given that you're still breathing (I hope) I am forced to conclude you are a troll and I'm done feeding this troll.


----------



## Garlock (May 14, 2008)

I think its outrageously funny that everyone is taking this oh so seriously.


The shirt doesn't have any implications, this is just the black community going apeshit as usual for something that may be racist. (there is no pun intended on the apeshit, most people go that way when something stirs drama.)

This is like if I had a T-shirt saying Hilary Clinton in 08 with a E Honda giving a thumbs up over that, am I implying that she is for fat people and that everyone who is with her must be heavy or fat?


----------



## Hothien (May 14, 2008)

Doc Watson said:


> I think its outrageously funny that everyone is taking this oh so seriously.
> 
> 
> The shirt doesn't have any implications, this is just the black community going apeshit as usual for something that may be racist. (there is no pun intended on the apeshit, most people go that way when something stirs drama.)
> ...



For you to say that shows an ignorance of the history of racism in the US. One of the more common racial slurs in the US against blacks is to compare them to monkeys in an attempt to dehumanize them.


----------



## Hellion (May 14, 2008)

There is no way for a non-black person to understand, plain and simple, trying to get some people to understand is pointless


----------



## drache (May 14, 2008)

Kaze said:


> There is no way for a non-black person to understand, plain and simple, trying to get some people to understand is pointless


 

Actually people can, all it takes (I guess) is being called a racial or ethinic slur and then being told it's all in good fun.

Or who knows maybe people are just choosing to be willfully ignorant and stupid.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

Doc Watson said:


> I think its outrageously funny that everyone is taking this oh so seriously.
> 
> 
> The shirt doesn't have any implications, this is just the black community going apeshit as usual for something that may be racist. (there is no pun intended on the apeshit, most people go that way when something stirs drama.)
> ...



well, u probably don't think blacks have any racial problems then 



Kaze said:


> There is no way for a non-black person to understand, plain and simple, trying to get some people to understand is pointless



I don't think they can't understand, as a matter of fact there several non blacks () speaking against this.  It's obvious it's racist.  There's just no connection to obama and a banana eating monkey, period.

I'm glad sharpton will make a big deal about it.  Let the shirt maker say his piece, he'll just give some trov like double talkign BS


----------



## Trov (May 14, 2008)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Ok, you see him as an idiot, then go with that.  Saying "he's like this monkey" is just being stupid and isn't whitty at all.  Its very different than looking at GEORGE Bush and saying "wow, he's kind of dim and childlike and his name is george, he's like curious george".


Hey, I'll give you that it's witty. But that isn't the end all be all.



> Because it doesn't make any sense.


Eh, Hey, if it makes sense to someone, they can keep calling him that.



> A picture and words are different?  So if it showed him as the classic black stereotype with huge lips and nappy hair that wouldn't be racist and would be ok?


Still different. You are using an example that limits the reason a person would compare to him. Try something that may have a varied amount of reasons to compare. Like... a toothpick. 



Hugo_Pratt said:


> An insult is in the intent, not in the content.
> 
> For example, in France "encul?" is an insult. "Encul?" means, litterally: "someone who's been fucked in the ass" (yeah, we can say it pretty quickly compared to english, french is such a beautiful language). Well, two gay males can call each others "encul?", and it's still offensive to both of them. The reason for this is that "encul?", as an insult, means pretty much the same as "friend".***
> 
> ...


Am I missing something here, Where was his intent known? Maybe I read it wrong. But he didn't get much of a say out, or are you guys just guessing here?



Hugo_Pratt said:


> So I suppose the same goes for "^ (use bro)": you just have to "let it roll off [your] back".



Meh, Don't let words control you is what I'lve been taught. people often say things like that for a reaction. Why give them one?
Although this is an interesting point. Since blacks are divided in how to deal with the word. Some believe that saying it alot will deride it of it's power, others believe that it should never be said regardless.


----------



## Hellion (May 14, 2008)

drache said:


> Actually people can, all it takes (I guess) is being called a racial or ethinic slur and then being told it's all in good fun.
> 
> *Or who knows maybe people are just choosing to be willfully ignorant and stupid.*



Its part of society what can you do about that.

On the first thing you said I feel that people can relate to it but, they can't really feel like.  you know what i mean?


----------



## Trov (May 14, 2008)

Kaze said:


> There is no way for a non-black person to understand, plain and simple, trying to get some people to understand is pointless


I'm black, I get it. I'm just sick of the double standards



drache said:


> So you admit that the *ONLY *picture of a  black person you included is obviously racist
> 
> 
> And yet you persist in defending this?
> ...



DO I NEED TO ADD THIS:   ?! 
I never admit anything, what was in the parenthesis was a joke.

*sigh*Don't worry though. I'll ignore you here. I don't have the time to get dragged into another argument with you.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> Am I missing something here, Where was his intent known? Maybe I read it wrong. But he didn't get much of a say out, or are you guys just guessing here?



of course he didn't make his intent known, cause his intent is racist and it will just be shot down.  Unless, could it be? He's the william shakespeare of tshirts?


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> I'm black, I get it. I'm just sick of the double standards



trov is black , u must be joking? R u pulling a BI on us here?


----------



## Trov (May 14, 2008)

narutosimpson said:


> of course he didn't make his intent known, cause his intent is racist and it will just be shot down.  Unless, could it be? He's the william shakespeare of tshirts?


He's racist according to your opinion.



narutosimpson said:


> trov is black , u must be joking? R u pulling a BI on us here?


No, I'm black. I'm made various posts saying the same thing. It's funny since I'm been considered racist against blacks. And when I suddenly bring out me being black. everyone shuts up.


----------



## Hellion (May 14, 2008)

If trov is black he is an uncle Tom.  

I get, getting over racist things.  I even understand that everything that happens to black people is not the man, society or what ever other bull that gets mentioned when things go wrong for black people.

But when you side with some of the most ignorant bigots on this board I have a problem.


----------



## Amuro (May 14, 2008)

Doc Watson said:


> I think its outrageously funny that everyone is taking this oh so seriously.
> 
> 
> The shirt doesn't have any implications, this is just the *black community going apeshit* as usual for something that may be racist. (there is no pun intended on the apeshit, most people go that way when something stirs drama.)
> ...




I C WHAT U DID THAR 



It's pretty obvious that the shirt could be seen as racist but i guess it all depends on the guys motives for creating the shirt in the first place.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

did trov argue on diamed's side?


----------



## Elim Rawne (May 14, 2008)

narutosimpson said:


> did trov argue on diamed's side?



oxymoron much?


Come on,monkey isnt that bad of a slur,i mean they called samuel eto'o a monkey and look how he reacted

oh,wait.

*Spoiler*: __ 




[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQv4aIXaGQ4[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Trov (May 14, 2008)

Kaze said:


> If trov is black he is an uncle Tom.
> 
> I get, getting over racist things.  I even understand that everything that happens to black people is not the man, society or what ever other bull that gets mentioned when things go wrong for black people.
> 
> But when you side with some of the most ignorant bigots on this board I have a problem.


The second you considered me an uncle Tom. Is when my opinion of you dropped. I'm really sick of the term. If I don't argue for reparations, I'm an uncle tom, If I talk white, I'm an uncle tom. Bla bla bullshit. I am who I am, and my color just doesn't make me an 'against the white man, reparations wanting, chicken loving black guy' I like something because I like something, I hate it because I hate it. It has little to do with my color.



narutosimpson said:


> did trov argue on diamed's side?


I don't know, did I?



narutosimpson said:


> i'll make it crystal clear as soon as diamed accepts this invite
> 
> DIAMED: do you think black people are monkeys?


Hm. alright. Just make sure you ask if he thinks other races are monkeys too. To compare.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 14, 2008)

I can certainly see how that can be interpreted as racist, even that wasn't the intent. It's too glaringly obvious...


----------



## LayZ (May 14, 2008)

This shirt isn't a big deal to me.  But it does bring up the discussion about the idea of black people being less than human.  America has long history of telling black people they're inferior and treating them this way.  So when this idea is brought up, African-Americans tend to get upset.  I know, I know.  Ridiculous isn't it.


----------



## Bender (May 14, 2008)

If I wasn't so worried about getting banned I'd flame the shit out of all you. Really, you all fucking disgust with your ligh treatment of racism epsecially against black people. Just goes to show how sensitive people are and the progress we have made. To everyone who it black and REALLY understand how it feels thank you. Everyone else you just piss me the fuck off and just make my hatred towards you all the much stronger.





krickitat said:


> I dont understand why we can put president bush into adds and t shirt with chimps (amaing how similar the facial expressions are) and then get upset about a picture of curious george.
> 
> the message isnt that curious george is a monkey. The message is that curious george gets curious and then he gets himself into a MESS of trouble because he doesnt know what the hell he is doing. The sign says "DONT PUSH THE BUTTON" but curious george has to push the button because it wouldnt be funny if he didnt.
> While some people might equate the t-shirt with the fact that he is a black man arent there more then enough WHITE MEN we equate with monkeys?
> ...




The fact you're speaking so lightly of this matter  shows your knowledge of the history of racism against blacks. 



			
				Trov said:
			
		

> Bush is compared to a monkey because people has thought of him as an idiot. Why can't Obama be treated the same? Fuck race. He's a man. A human man, when you can't insult people the same, something is wrong.



I,ve been trying to ignore you all through out this thread but that's it.

The Bush monkey comparison is humorous this is just racist. Plus, it's more uncanny resemblance and considering our similarity and how are mannerism are it is hardly laughable. Also don't bring in equallity into this since this topic hardly has any of it in it and the shirt is just tearing us apart.

Really, are you trying to be like BI? Because you are doing an awesome job at it.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> I don't know, did I?



i seem to group u in that set of trolls.  Shit, all that's left is for diamed or simulacram to claim being black for my brains to melt 



> Hm. alright. Just make sure you ask if he thinks other races are monkeys too. To compare.



i already know he considers non whites, me among them as retarded (unless he dared classify me as white, u know his classification is the gold standard).  I'm just shoving his opinion down your throat


----------



## Bender (May 14, 2008)

If you don't consider this racist then that's like saying this isn't racist







> No, I'm black. I'm made various posts saying the same thing. It's funny since I'm been considered racist against blacks. And when I suddenly bring out me being black. everyone shuts up.




I almost felt ill for a second there

You're black.....? 

lol


If you black gotta be some type of fucking B-rad


----------



## drache (May 14, 2008)

Kaze said:


> Its part of society what can you do about that.
> 
> On the first thing you said I feel that people can relate to it but, they can't really feel like. you know what i mean?


 

What can I do about it? *shrug* Maybe nothing maybe something, I promise you this though I'm not going to just politely ignore it.

As to being called a racial slur, I guess it depends like I said earlier I'm balantly Irish/Scotish with red hair, freckles even got the the wierd blue-green eyes and having said that I've had a couple people (to my face) say things they had to know were ethinic slurs. And thus while I may never understand the complete weight some feel it's close enough to be empathic.



Trov said:


> DO I NEED TO ADD THIS:  ?!
> I never admit anything, what was in the parenthesis was a joke.
> 
> *sigh*Don't worry though. I'll ignore you here. I don't have the time to get dragged into another argument with you.


 
Oh my freaken gods Trov I am so completely and utter sick of this.

Please tell me exactly how many times we need to play this game? If you're going to tell a 'joke' to me in a serious discussion you'd better make it so fucking obvious there's no chance for a miscommunication.

You wrote what you wrote and it's not my fault you wrote it badly. I am not responsible for what you say and how you choose to say that, don't you even try to push this onto me.

Even assuming you were joking it doesn't change the fact that the situation is different.

If you go to a website dedicated to comparing celebrities to apes (because not all of those primates were monkeys) first it's not the exact same thing and second there's a willingness to take it at face value.

That's alot different then what we're talking about.


----------



## Hellion (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> The second you considered me an uncle Tom. Is when my opinion of you dropped. I'm really sick of the term. If I don't argue for reparations, I'm an uncle tom, If I talk white, I'm an uncle tom. Bla bla bullshit. I am who I am, and my color just doesn't make me an 'against the white man, reparations wanting, chicken loving black guy' I like something because I like something, I hate it because I hate it. It has little to do with my color.



Pssh don't give me that sob story.  I have a total of 1 close black friend, I hate rap and I have one of the whitest speaking voices that you can imagine.  that shit is superficial.

But the fact that you seem to disregard that this term is in someway racist is where I have a problem.  I am not even that upset about the t-shirt.  The man was an idiot for making it racist intentions or not.

How can you disregard a term that was used to put down your parents, or their parents.  That is the part that makes me call you and Uncle Tom.


----------



## Incubus (May 14, 2008)

I read the OP and thought, "there are going to be a lot of people who don't get why this is an issue ."



9Tail-Hokage said:


> ...*Calling black people monkies has always been viewed as racist, period....
> 
> ...Either it was an egregious calculation or a disastrous oversight. Either way, the man should've known what was coming when he made that.*



My thoughts exactly


I'm not going to call anyone racist (although there is a strong case for it), but that shirt is offensive, whether it was intended to be or not.


----------



## Bender (May 14, 2008)

Kaze said:


> How can you disregard a term that was used to put down your parents, or their parents.  That is the part that makes me call you and Uncle Tom.



LOL


----------



## Kira (May 14, 2008)

Kaze said:


> How can you disregard a term that was used to put down your parents, or their parents.  That is the part that makes me call you and Uncle Tom.


pwnt


----------



## Trov (May 14, 2008)

Blaze of Glory said:


> I,ve been trying to ignore you all through out this thread but that's it.
> 
> The Bush monkey comparison is humorous this is just racist. Plus, it's more uncanny resemblance and considering our similarity and how are mannerism are it is hardly laughable. Also don't bring in equallity into this since this topic hardly has any of it in it and the shirt is just tearing us apart.
> 
> Really, are you trying to be like BI? Because you are doing an awesome job at it.


EDIT: heh, I completely ignored your post in my response. Point is though. Humorous and racist are not opposities. something can be both  or neither.


narutosimpson said:


> i seem to group u in that set of trolls.  Shit, all that's left is for diamed or simulacram to claim being black for my brains to melt


heh


> i already know he considers non whites, me among them as retarded (unless he dared classify me as white, u know his classification is the gold standard).  I'm just shoving his opinion down your throat


Eh, I've seen him post a few times. Sometimes I agree with him, other times, I think he's way off.



Blaze of Glory said:


> I almost felt ill for a second there
> 
> You're black.....?
> 
> ...


That was an insult wasn't it?



drache said:


> Oh my freaken gods Trov I am so completely and utter sick of this.
> 
> Please tell me exactly how many times we need to play this game? If you're going to tell a 'joke' to me in a serious discussion you'd better make it so fucking obvious there's no chance for a miscommunication.
> 
> ...


I kind figured you'd pick up the fact that I often add little quips in paranthesis that may go directly against what I've been arguing for. Likely, it's a joke meant to illustrate my point.

Although I'm pretty sure monkey is a broad term meant for various types of primates.



Kaze said:


> Pssh don't give me that sob story.  I have a total of 1 close black friend, I hate rap and I have one of the whitest speaking voices that you can imagine.  that shit is superficial.
> 
> But the fact that you seem to disregard that this term is in someway racist is where I have a problem.  I am not even that upset about the t-shirt.  The man was an idiot for making it racist intentions or not.
> 
> How can you disregard a term that was used to put down your parents, or their parents.  That is the part that makes me call you and Uncle Tom.



Glad you think it's superficial, I think that was a point.  Whats funny is, I never once disregarded the term as not being racist. I did however, consider it a huge double standard to consider our commander in Chief a monkey but not Obama. If you wanna do it for anyone else, fine. I have no problem with that. But No one is off limits. No one.


----------



## drache (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> I kind figured you'd pick up the fact that I often add little quips in paranthesis that may go directly against what I've been arguing for. Likely, it's a joke meant to illustrate my point.


 
I'm begining to get seriously annonyed with you on this.

We've had at least 5 discussions, debates whatever where this has happened. The first time was excusable, the second time I was willing to play nice but now after repeatedly telling you the same thing I just don't think you're listening.

If you're going to use humor over a printed medium then you had better make sure people will get it.

If they don't it's your fault not thiers.



Trov said:


> Although I'm pretty sure monkey is a broad term meant for various types of primates.


 
Not it's not it's a very specific group of primates.





> Monkey
> 
> Any of various long-tailed, medium-sized members of the order Primates, including the macaques, baboons, guenons, capuchins, marmosets, and tamarins and excluding the anthropoid apes and the prosimians.


 source


----------



## Incubus (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> Glad you think it's superficial, I think that was a point.  Whats funny is, I never once disregarded the term as not being racist. I did however, consider it a huge double standard to consider our commander in Chief a monkey but not Obama. If you wanna do it for anyone else, fine. I have no problem with that. But No one is off limits. No one.



Comparing a black person to a monkey has a different connotation than calling a white person a monkey. If comparing a black person to a monkey meant the same thing as comparing a white person and someone was only criticised for making the comparison with the black man, then you would have a evidence of a double standard. Seeing as such is not the case, there is no double standard here.


----------



## Ryuk (May 14, 2008)

Wow, that was stupid.


----------



## Trov (May 14, 2008)

drache said:


> I'm begining to get seriously annonyed with you on this.
> 
> We've had at least 5 discussions, debates whatever where this has happened. The first time was excusable, the second time I was willing to play nice but now after repeatedly telling you the same thing I just don't think you're listening.
> 
> ...


Bleh



> Not it's not it's a very specific group of primates.
> 
> 
> 
> source


[/quote]
so, basically, it's a term used to refer to a certain *group* of monkeys... yea...

So which ones aren't monkeys? I'll give you the apes.



Incubus said:


> Comparing a black person to a monkey has a different connotation from calling a white person a monkey. If comparing a black person to a monkey meant the same thing as comparing a white person and someone was only criticised for making the comparison with the black man, then you would have a evidence of a double standard. Seeing as such is not the case, there is no double standard here.



No duh. And it's all in the mind. I hate this. Since it makes whites appear invincible. Like they have no term that can hurt them. But blacks will fall and crumble and are easy to stir to anger if the wrong word is used. BLAH.

Although I disagree with the whole connotation part. I doesn't really matter what the connotation is. a double standard is a double standard. I'd probably respond more. But thats it from me for a while. BASH AWAY PEOPLE! 
(Added the smilie because appearantly, people need help telling when I'm joking.)


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> No duh. And it's all in the mind. I hate this. Since it makes whites appear invincible. Like they have no term that can hurt them. But blacks will fall and crumble and are easy to stir to anger if the wrong word is used. BLAH.
> 
> Although I disagree with the whole connotation part. I doesn't really matter what the connotation is. a double standard is a double standard. I'd probably respond more. But thats it from me for a while. BASH AWAY PEOPLE!
> (Added the smilie because appearantly, people need help telling when I'm joking.)



I still fail to see the "double standard".  Saying "you can call a white person a monkey but not a black person" is like saying "you can call a white person a ^ (use bro) but not a black person, thats such a double standard".  Its not a double standard because the word has different meanings depending on who you're referring to.

You said you don't highly of Obama, thats fine, there are a million and one ways you could show that, a million and one sets of imagery where you could show someone incompetent or stupid, but they chose a piece of imagery that is tied (in reference to a black person) more to race than intelligence or competence on the job.

If people were using racial slurs against Bush and no one was being called out on it, I would agree to the double standard.


----------



## Incubus (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> No duh. And it's all in the mind. I hate this. Since it makes whites appear invincible. Like they have no term that can hurt them. But blacks will fall and crumble and are easy to stir to anger if the wrong word is used. BLAH.
> 
> Although I disagree with the whole connotation part. I doesn't really matter what the connotation is. a double standard is a double standard. I'd probably respond more. But thats it from me for a while. BASH AWAY PEOPLE!
> (Added the smilie because appearantly, people need help telling when I'm joking.)



There are terms that are offencive to white people. There are racial slurs against white people. And I have noticed that people are sometimes allowed to use those terms more freely than racial slurs against Blacks. That is a double standard. Neither should be more acceptable than the other.

Also, Black people will not fall and crumble if the wrong word is used, but we will make it known that the word should not have been used.

The term "monkey" has been used in the past and is still used to degrade Black people. That is not how the term has been used for white people. Two different meanings for two different races. One is more acceptable than the other. If you call that a double standard, the so be it. But understand that the "double standard" exists because the term has two meanings.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

nobody even bought up the macaque -senator incident that happened not too long ago.


> "This fellow here, over here with the yellow shirt, macaca, or whatever his name is. He's with my opponent. He's following us around everywhere. And it's just great," Allen said, as his supporters began to laugh. After saying that Webb was raising money in California with a "bunch of Hollywood movie moguls," Allen said, "Let's give a welcome to macaca, here. Welcome to America and the real world of Virginia." Allen then began talking about the "war on terror."
> 
> Depending on how it is spelled, the word macaca could mean either a monkey that inhabits the Eastern Hemisphere or a town in South Africa. In some European cultures, macaca is also considered a racial slur against African immigrants, according to several Web sites that track ethnic slurs.


----------



## Bender (May 14, 2008)

Trov said:


> EDIT: heh, I completely ignored your post in my response. Point is though. Humorous and racist are not opposities. something can be both  or neither.



Are you really black?

I can' tell if you are trying to be a BI or a Utahcrip


----------



## drache (May 14, 2008)

so, basically, it's a term used to refer to a certain *group* of monkeys... yea...

So which ones aren't monkeys? I'll give you the apes.

[/quote]

Well I'm mostly self taught on this subject but I know for example the great apes aren't monkeys (chimps, gorilleas, and a couple others I'm not even going to try to spell). It might be that primates are divided up into these 2 groups but the point is you're site isn't even really using monkeys. Just scanning it at least 2 maybe 3 of those primates are not monkeys.

And I think you meants 'basically, it's a term used to refer to a certain *group* of  *primates*' (second bold is mine) not monkeys.


----------



## Simulacrum (May 14, 2008)

See, this is why I stopped bothering to defend the shirts with serious replies several pages ago. There is a reason for calling someone a primate other than as a racial slur. It's because they're idiots. But, because this is primarily drawn down a political line and this forum is entrenched with rabid Obamaniacs, it's pretty obvious that you chimps aren't going to get it. This guy is southern and Obama has non-white skin, therefore he can't have any other motive than racism in making fun of a candidate he has political opposition to. 

Oh shit, I called you guys primates! And since most of those opposing me are liberally-slanted I'm sure that means there's quite a few blacks in there. I guess I'm a racist now!


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> See, this is why I stopped bothering to defend the shirts with serious replies several pages ago. There is a reason for calling someone a primate other than as a racial slur. It's because they're idiots. But, because this is primarily drawn down a political line and this forum is entrenched with rabid Obamaniacs, it's pretty obvious that you chimps aren't going to get it. This guy is southern and Obama has non-white skin, therefore he can't have any other motive than racism in making fun of a candidate he has political opposition to.
> 
> Oh shit, I called you guys primates! And since most of those opposing me are liberally-slanted I'm sure that means there's quite a few blacks in there. I guess I'm a racist now!



Oh yeah you're right.  I mean showing someone as a monkey is the only way to show they're an idiot, oh wait it isn't!!!

There are a million ways to show someones stupid, they chose a piece of imagery that would evoke a racial connotation.

Like I've said, going from Bush to Curious George I can see because they're both named George, its a play on their names.  With Obama is a real leap from BARACK to Curious GEORGE.


----------



## neko-sennin (May 14, 2008)

Willaien said:


> It is the intent of the person making the statement that matters, and since that has been used in the past as a blatantly racist slur, we assume that, with this person knowing the intents it has been used for in the past, they would have only used it in this context for that purpose.



You may as well just give up. People like Simulacrum just like attention; the fact that he's doing his childishly obtuse thing is proof of that.

Doesn't look like this thread has much left to say on the matter, so I don't plan to waste any more time on it.


----------



## davidpliskin (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> See, this is why I stopped bothering to defend the shirts with serious replies several pages ago. There is a reason for calling someone a primate other than as a racial slur. It's because they're idiots.



in reference to W. Bush that statement might be true. However I don't think anyone with reasonable intelligence thinks Obama is an idiot,they may not agree with some of his ideals.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

george bush looks like a monkey too, the many faces of george monkey bush.


----------



## Incubus (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> See, this is why I stopped bothering to defend the shirts with serious replies several pages ago. There is a reason for calling someone a primate other than as a racial slur. It's because they're idiots. But, because this is primarily drawn down a political line and this forum is entrenched with rabid Obamaniacs, it's pretty obvious that you chimps aren't going to get it. This guy is southern and Obama has non-white skin, therefore he can't have any other motive than racism in making fun of a candidate he has political opposition to.
> 
> Oh shit, I called you guys primates! And since most of those opposing me are liberally-slanted I'm sure that means there's quite a few blacks in there. I guess I'm a racist now!



He may not have meant it as a racial offense. He may have been trying to say that Obama is dumb. However, comparing a black person to a monkey has been and still is used as a racial slur. It should not be done no matter what the intent. It alone does not make him racist, but what he did is offensive.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

Incubus said:


> He may not have meant it as a racial offense. He may have been trying to say that Obama is dumb. However, comparing a black person to a monkey has been and still is used as a racial slur. *It should not be done no matter what the intent.* It alone does not make him racist, but what he did is offensive.



i would say the exception is if obama was a GW level failure, then it's fair game.  though obama doesn't really look like a monkey or make stupid faces like bush.


----------



## Incubus (May 14, 2008)

narutosimpson said:


> i would say the exception is if obama was a GW level failure, then it's fair game.  though obama doesn't really look like a monkey or make stupid faces like bush.



Then they would have a strong case for saying they meant to portray Obama as an idiot.  Still, it would be best if they found some other way to do it.


----------



## Simulacrum (May 14, 2008)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Oh yeah you're right.  I mean showing someone as a monkey is the only way to show they're an idiot, oh wait it isn't!!!
> 
> There are a million ways to show someones stupid, they chose a piece of imagery that would evoke a racial connotation.
> 
> Like I've said, going from Bush to Curious George I can see because they're both named George, its a play on their names.  With Obama is a real leap from BARACK to Curious GEORGE.


 Liberal PC fascism. 



> in reference to W. Bush that statement might be true. However I don't think anyone with reasonable intelligence thinks Obama is an idiot,they may not agree with some of his ideals.


 Obama might speak well when he's reading from a teleprompter, but that hardly makes him intelligent. Frunk already made a list of Obama's stupidity, so I'll just copy/paste it for my own convenience. 

Refused to denounce racist pastor
Openly lied about overturning NAFTA
Threatened to bomb Pakistan, our ally
Been extremely ignorant about how war works
Been extremely ignorant about how the economy works
Been a socialist
Opposed capitalism
Wanted to tax people because they are successful
Opposed nuclear power, even though it is by far the cleanest and most efficient power source 



			
				Incubus said:
			
		

> He may not have meant it as a racial offense. He may have been trying to say that Obama is dumb. However, comparing a black person to a monkey has been and still is used as a racial slur. It should not be done no matter what the intent. It alone does not make him racist, but what he did is offensive.


 Cry me a fucking river.


----------



## Kira (May 14, 2008)

Diamed is here 

And so another Cafe troll joins us.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

i invited him in a post a few pages back


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> Liberal PC fascism.



How exactly is it fascism?  I didn't advocate forcing him to stop or forcing people not to say racist things.  I'm just saying this probably had a racial motivation.


----------



## drache (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> Liberal PC fascism.


 
you know just throwing complicated sounding words together doesn't make you smart.




Simulacrum said:


> Obama might speak well when he's reading from a teleprompter, but that hardly makes him intelligent. Frunk already made a list of Obama's stupidity, so I'll just copy/paste it for my own convenience.


 
Your ignorance is amusing, you are aware he often doesn't speak from a prompter? That he mostly writes his own speeches?

But I'm guessing nothing will satisfy you.



Simulacrum said:


> Refused to denounce racist pastor


 
Can I have some of what you're smoking?

Cause he denounced the words and that's what matters.



Simulacrum said:


> Openly lied about overturning NAFTA


 
This was refuted and is a nonstory



Simulacrum said:


> Threatened to bomb Pakistan, our ally


 
A gross mischaraterization of what Obama said



Simulacrum said:


> Been extremely ignorant about how war works


 
If your a judge of how war works I'm Einstien



Simulacrum said:


> Been extremely ignorant about how the economy works


 
As opposed to McCain admitting he doens't know how the ecnomy works? 

Seriously nice vague critism there but it lacks a grounding in reality.



Simulacrum said:


> Been a socialist


 
He is not a socialist will you stop abusing the English lanuage please.



Simulacrum said:


> Opposed capitalism


 
Look another fallacy, this time hyperbole

At least you are trying, I guess.



Simulacrum said:


> Wanted to tax people because they are successful


 
Taxes by definition tend to tax you more the more money you make thus if by success you mean more money then thank Captain Obvious defender of the balantly apparent.



Simulacrum said:


> Opposed nuclear power, even though it is by far the cleanest and most efficient power source


 
You don't want to go here, you really don't. As a physicist I could bore everyone here on the ins and outs on nuclear power and it's from the cleanest or the most efficent.

It's a viable source of power sure and it's here for the foreseeable future but knock off the hyperbole.


----------



## LayZ (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> Obama might speak well when he's reading from a teleprompter, but that hardly makes him intelligent.



And I'm sure being *Harvard* Law Review president doesn't make him intelligent either. 

You can question some of his past decisions, but saying he isn't intelligent is just laughable.


----------



## Keile (May 14, 2008)

Sounds almost like something Diamed would distribute and lavishly enjoy.


----------



## Bender (May 14, 2008)

Orochimaru-Sama said:


> Diamed is here
> 
> And so another Cafe troll joins us.



Top 4 Cafe trolls

1. Believe it!

2. Trov

3. Diamed

4. Simulacrum


Be proud of yourselves


----------



## Fojos (May 14, 2008)

Before I read the article I thought Obama was wearing that shirt...


----------



## Simulacrum (May 14, 2008)

Tsukiyomi said:


> How exactly is it fascism?  I didn't advocate forcing him to stop or forcing people not to say racist things.  I'm just saying this probably had a racial motivation.


 Your fascism is less blunt than what was employed by previous generations, but you obviously want this guy to not do what he's doing and the only reason you can come up with is that it's not PC. 



			
				LayZ said:
			
		

> And I'm sure being Harvard Law Review president doesn't make him intelligent either.
> 
> You can question some of his past decisions, but saying he isn't intelligent is just laughable.


 Yeah... I already said Obama is an expert at reading/repeating shit and that's pretty much all a lawyer/professor does. It's no surprise that Obama had that kind of job. When you actually check his policies for what he plans on doing, he's a flaming retard who only wants to repeat the miserable failures of the past. 

Oh golly, I said he's a flaming retard. Even though I really meant if someone is so stupid that they're _on fire_ one would give pause before voting said person into a position of leadership, but since flaming is also a euphemism for homosexual I guess that makes me a homophobe now.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> Your fascism is less blunt than what was employed by previous generations, but you obviously want this guy to not do what he's doing and the only reason you can come up with is that it's not PC.



How is me not wanting him to do something but not doing anything to stop him fascism?


----------



## Simulacrum (May 14, 2008)

Tsukiyomi said:


> How is me not wanting him to do something but not doing anything to stop him fascism?


 Because I'm sure if it was PC to force people to do things then you would. Kind of like how you're sure these shirts are racially charged.


----------



## Keile (May 14, 2008)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Top 4 Cafe trolls
> 
> 1. Believe it!
> 
> ...



Diamed is a worse troll than Believe It!

I can tolerate Believe It! as it he sometimes makes sense. Of course, that sense is muddled with hysterics and bias.

---

BELIEVE IT! - (Plus, he has a catchy slogan).



Simulacrum said:


> Because I'm sure if it was PC to force people to do things then you would. Kind of like how you're sure these shirts are racially charged.



These shirts can be easily percieved as racially charged, with or without the fascist accusation. Can I assume that you will accuse anyone who might think this as racist banter as a fascist? Or is Tsukiyomi special?

Are we all somehow fascists for thinking we would like to influence and change the opinions of our peers? Does that mean all debaters are fascists?


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> Yeah... I already said Obama is an expert at reading/repeating shit and that's pretty much all a lawyer/professor does. It's no surprise that Obama had that kind of job. When you actually check his policies for what he plans on doing, he's a flaming retard who only wants to repeat the miserable failures of the past.
> 
> Oh golly, I said he's a flaming retard. Even though I really meant if someone is so stupid that they're _on fire_ one would give pause before voting said person into a position of leadership, but since flaming is also a euphemism for homosexual I guess that makes me a homophobe now.



wow, when u accomplish anything of value please let us know how it stacks up to obamas accomplishments.


----------



## FitzChivalry (May 14, 2008)

Threatened to bomb Pakistan? Didn't he say that if the US had _actionable_ intelligence against certain people hiding there, and if the Pakistani president didn't back him, then he'd bomb the areas he had gathered intelligence on, authorized or not? Not the same as "threatening to bomb Pakistan." And as I recall it, the CIA later carried out a mission just like the position Obama advocated, and took out several terrorists that had eluded the US for years. But that's beside the point.

My original post stands. Either he's racist--which I have not accused him of being since I don't know why he made the shirt--or tactless. Again, he should've known what the ramifications of comparing a black man to a primeate would've been. In Trov fashion in doesn't offend me, but unlike Trov I can see why this would other people. I'd love to rid this world of that racial slur, but it exists and it offends blacks. My initial reaction to the shirt was, "this man's an idiot." Not a racist, since I don't know everything, but a tactless fool.

He should've known what would come of this, as this racial slur's existed for countless years. Again, either it was an egregious calculation, or a disastrous oversight. I won't call him a racist, but I can see why others would.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> Because I'm sure if it was PC to force people to do things then you would. Kind of like how you're sure these shirts are racially charged.



So.....i'm fascist because under a totally different set of circumstances you think I would probably do something?  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

So if I think under a completely different set of circumstances that you would try to force people to adhere to your beliefs does that make you a fascist?  Because I do think that.


----------



## Byakkö (May 14, 2008)

Oh my god that's the funniest t-shirt I have ever seen. 


What the hell was the guy thinking, that's blatant racism.


----------



## sikvod00 (May 14, 2008)

I love how some here freely misuse the terms fascism and socialism, or better yet, conflate the two.


----------



## dreams lie (May 14, 2008)

Of course, a monkey.  Eating a banana.  And here I thought this bullshit was over.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 14, 2008)

dreams lie said:


> Of course, a monkey.  Eating a banana.  And here I thought this bullshit was over.



well, simulacram would have you believe blacks can't identify racism when they feel racism, it's all in our heads


----------



## Kira (May 14, 2008)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Top 4 Cafe trolls
> 
> 1. Believe it!
> 
> ...


They should 



Keile said:


> Diamed is a worse troll than Believe It!
> 
> I can tolerate Believe It! as it he sometimes makes sense. Of course, that sense is muddled with hysterics and bias.


No BI is worse. Diamed has some controversial views and he zealously defends them but this is only regarding certain issues. BI on the otherhand has the ability to troll any topic, with such classics as 'Merriam Webster is wrong' 

Back on topic, your arguments are saturated with logical fallacies Simulacrum, which have been exposed. Bringing things up such as Rev Wright to somehow support your assertion that those t shirts are not racist is laughable. In addition you claiming that lawyers and professors only 'read and repeat shit' shows that you're either extremely ignorant or an impressive Cafe troll. I am inclined to believe it is the latter and if this is the case, I would like to warn BI and Diamed that a challenger has appeared.

While the intentions of the guy who made the t shirt may not have been racist, it can easily be interpreted that way by anyone who is not completely ignorant of the long storied history of racism towards black people in the USA.


----------



## LayZ (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> Yeah... I already said Obama is an expert at reading/repeating shit and that's pretty much all a lawyer/professor does. It's no surprise that Obama had that kind of job. When you actually check his policies for what he plans on doing, he's a flaming retard who only wants to repeat the miserable failures of the past.



Ok, I get it.  You say Obama isn't intelligent because you don't agree with his policies. 

It has nothing to do with his actual academic knowledge. I was just pointing out that he graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law school.  Which requires someone to meet extremely high academic standards.  The fact that he was elected President of the Harvard Law Review indicates that he was respected by his peers who met those very same standards.


----------



## LayZ (May 14, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> I say he's not intelligent because _history_ doesn't agree with his policies.



You're still talking about his policies and not his actual wealth of knowledge.  You can say his policies are economically unintelligent from history's viewpoint, instead of ignoring his academic accomplishments.  When you say the "Harvard graduate is not intelligent", it just makes you look stupid IMO.

Keep in mind he's running for president.  In a time of economic instability, you might get a lot of votes from your democratic base if you tax the rich.


----------



## Back-side Attack (May 14, 2008)

Willaien said:


> Was wondering when the overt racism would start popping up.
> 
> oh, and here's the sign out front:



Why is border patrol racist...they keep our country safe, just like firefighters, cops, etc.


----------



## Hothien (May 14, 2008)

rofl125 said:


> Why is border patrol racist...they keep our country safe, just like firefighters, cops, etc.



I didn't say it was. I was wanting to emphasize his anti-democrat speech there, you know, the part about "I wish Hillary had married O.J."...


----------



## hustler's ambition (May 14, 2008)

Well this is a lesson learned:

Black people shouldn't run for presidency.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 15, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> Then tell me, what's your position on punishments for hate crimes? Obama is all for increasing the federal government's role in prosecuting and punishing hate crimes, and expanding the definition of hate crime. that one
> 
> If you can't see where this is going, then you probably shouldn't bother answering the question.



I actually support that and I'll tell you why.  It doesn't propose increasing the punishment for hate crimes, only the governments help in PREVENTING and prosecuting them.  Since hate crimes follow a pretty simple patter (skin heads tend to attack black people and black communities) the government can help track these things across state lines and help prevent future hate crimes.



Simulacrum said:


> No, I wouldn't. If you want to be a chimp then go ahead, that's your business. But, you attack me for calling you a closest fascist by saying it doesn't make sense, then you yourself take that exact same stance against me. The hypocrisy here would be hilarious if it weren't so sad. But, I'm sure your mind is already so closed off by double standards that you don't even see the problem.



I didn't seriously take the stance.  I was attempting to show you how ludicrous your position was, but apparently you're too dense to see that the fact that according to you under a completely non-existent set of circumstances I would do something means nothing.  You don't know me and those situations don't exists so you can't say anything about it.

So explain to me again how I'm somehow a fascist due to events that never happened under situations that don't exists.


----------



## Koi (May 15, 2008)

They look nothing alike!  Curious George doesn't have Obama's purple lips!


This is just stupid.  It's funny for about two seconds before you realize how inappropriate it is, and how much trouble they might even land their asses in for doing it.


----------



## Garlock (May 15, 2008)

I love how this thread derails from the Monkey shirt into an all out political shit flinging contest.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 15, 2008)

Yūhi Kurenai said:


> They look nothing alike!  Curious George doesn't have Obama's purple lips!
> 
> 
> This is just stupid.  It's funny for about two seconds before you realize how inappropriate it is, and how much trouble they might even land their asses in for doing it.



Haha, I like the part with the banana. 

I think if people don't see how this is racists they need to read a book. The next step is him in a commercial tap dancing to mammie.


----------



## hustler's ambition (May 15, 2008)

It seems like 50 Cent was right about Obama:



> _"I don't have anything against him, it's just that America isn't ready for a Black president. They might try to shoot him."_


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 15, 2008)

Nesha said:


> It seems like 50 Cent was right about Obama:



Since when is 50 cent a source of intelligent comment on these kind of things? Part of the problem is people making a big deal about him being black. He's not 'black' he's a fucking person and the sooner people realize that people are people and that this stupid color shit is wrong, the better off we'll be. 

It's just as racist and wrong for 50 cent to say that as it is for someone to wear this shirt.


----------



## Simulacrum (May 15, 2008)

Tsukiyomi said:


> I actually support that and I'll tell you why.  It doesn't propose increasing the punishment for hate crimes, only the governments help in PREVENTING and prosecuting them.  Since hate crimes follow a pretty simple patter (skin heads tend to attack black people and black communities) the government can help track these things across state lines and help prevent future hate crimes.


 Liberal spin. 

Obama not only supported increasing punishment for hate crimes as well as expanding the legal definition of "hate crime", he fucking sponsored the bill. 



> More funding and stricter sentencing for hate crimes. Obama sponsored the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act: Title: To provide Federal assistance to States and local jurisdictions to prosecute hate crimes. Summary: Provide technical, forensic, prosecutorial, or other assistance in the criminal investigation or prosecution of any violent crime that is motivated by prejudice based on the race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, or disability of the victim or is a violation of hate crime laws. 1. Award grants to assist State and local law enforcement officials with extraordinary expenses for interstate hate crimes. 2. Award grants to State and local programs designed to combat hate crimes committed by juveniles. *3. Prohibit specified offenses involving actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, or disability. 4. Increase criminal sentencing for adult recruitment of juveniles to commit hate crimes.* 5. Collect and publish data about crimes that manifest evidence of prejudice based on gender.


 
Law should prosecute criminals based on actual crimes, not just "perceived offenses". There are already laws against adult recruitment of juveniles to commit hate crimes, and Obama is merely expanding it. This is the sort of quiet, creeping fascism I'm talking about. It sure sounds nice to claim it's about preventing crimes, but the simple fact remains that _it's impossible to prevent all crime_ and a "more law=more prevention" mentality would allow this kind of legislation to go on forever. And just who is supposed to pay for all this? Where is the evidence of interstate hate-oriented criminal circuits that justify this kind of legislation? How is this going to affect our already swamped court system and overpopulated detention centers? Where is the line going to be drawn? Do you even think there is a line? =\ 



> I didn't seriously take the stance.  I was attempting to show you how ludicrous your position was, but apparently you're too dense to see that the fact that according to you under a completely non-existent set of circumstances I would do something means nothing.  You don't know me and those situations don't exists so you can't say anything about it.


So, you lied, making yourself look like a hypocrite, and this is supposed to teach me a lesson... how? And let's not forget that what I said was that I'm "sure" your a fascist in the way you're "sure" this guy was printing shirts with racist intent. 



> So explain to me again how I'm somehow a fascist due to events that never happened under situations that don't exists.


 As I showed above, you're already actively supporting the expansion of fascist idealism. Your convenient blindness to your double standards is your downfall here.


----------



## Avocado (May 15, 2008)

its just a shirt


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 15, 2008)

Simulacrum said:


> Increase criminal sentencing for* adult recruitment of juveniles to commit hate crimes*



There is a key phrase here.  Increased sentencing for an adult who recruits a child into crime.  I think that does deserve a harsher punishment, not only did you commit a crime but you recruited a child into it as well.

You don't think people should be punished for recruiting children into crime?



Simulacrum said:


> So, you lied, making yourself look like a hypocrite, and this is supposed to teach me a lesson... how? And let's not forget that what I said was that I'm "sure" your a fascist in the way you're "sure" this guy was printing shirts with racist intent.



Lied?  Since when is sarcastic joking lying?  In order to be lying I would have had to have been serious and meant what I said.



Simulacrum said:


> As I showed above, you're already actively supporting the expansion of fascist idealism. Your convenient blindness to your double standards is your downfall here.



No, you're just trying to be argumentative because you don't actually have any basis for calling me a fascist.

Also I hardly call wanting to punish criminals for crimes that seriously hurt and in some cases kill people to be fascist.  Explain to me how thats fascist.

You also have yet to explain how I'm a fascist for something  I didn't do under a fictitious set of circumstances.  How about you explain that one if you can.


----------



## hustler's ambition (May 15, 2008)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Since when is 50 cent a source of intelligent comment on these kind of things? Part of the problem is people making a big deal about him being black. He's not 'black' he's a fucking person and the sooner people realize that people are people and that this stupid color shit is wrong, the better off we'll be.
> 
> It's just as racist and wrong for 50 cent to say that as it is for someone to wear this shirt.



I guess it's destiny that you and I will forever confict. 

Obama is a *Black* person running for presidency in a White man's game. That t-shirt that man made just makes me agree with 50 Cent's statement all the more.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 15, 2008)

Nesha said:


> I guess it's destiny that you and I will forever confict.
> 
> Obama is a *Black* person running for presidency in a White man's game. That t-shirt that man made just makes me agree with 50 Cent's statement all the more.



well, obama's opening it up, if it wasn't ready b4 it's more ready than it's ever been.


----------



## hustler's ambition (May 15, 2008)

narutosimpson said:


> well, obama's opening it up, if it wasn't ready b4 it's more ready than it's ever been.



Perhaps, but I still feel for him. This shit really has me worried. Granted he's not the first Black man to ever run for presidency, but he's the first Black man to ever come this close. I just truly believe that White people aren't going to take this shit lying down. The t-shirt was proof enough for that.

If they're already making t-shirts with a monkey's face on it with Obama's name captioned, I can only imagine what they'll do if he ever gets in office...

...not unless they pull a cheating stunt like Bush did with the Florida ballots...


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 15, 2008)

Nesha said:


> Perhaps, but I still feel for him. This shit really has me worried. Granted he's not the first Black man to ever run for presidency, but he's the first Black man to ever come this close. I just truly believe that White people aren't going to take this shit lying down. The t-shirt was proof enough for that.
> 
> If they're already making t-shirts with a monkey's face on it with Obama's name captioned, I can only imagine what they'll do if he ever gets in office...
> 
> ...not unless they pull a cheating stunt like Bush did with the Florida ballots...



yeah , i firmly believe this is just the tip of the iceberg.  I hope it doesn't become violent and stays at this silly propoganda level, cause I don't think that would sit well with the black constituency, 90% of black voters, who lawfully voted for him.


----------



## Believe It! (May 15, 2008)

Altron said:
			
		

> Here is a picture of the shirt:



I'll take five.

It is kind of an insult to Curious George though. Believe it!


----------



## hustler's ambition (May 15, 2008)

narutosimpson said:


> Beilieve it is some guy who pretended to be black on this board just to make silly points.  It doesn't surprise me he'll wear a shirt that implies obama is a monkey.



It amuses me that some people will do anything for INTERNET popularity...

...their lives must be extremely festive.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 15, 2008)

Nesha said:


> It amuses me that some people will do anything for INTERNET popularity...
> 
> ...their lives must be extremely festive.



BI is good for some laughs, like these people on Daily Show 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt6x0oOLs-E[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 15, 2008)

narutosimpson said:


> BI is good for some laughs, like these people on Daily Show


----------



## Believe It! (May 15, 2008)

Right, everyone who doesn't vote for Obama is a racist. Sure, sure.

Obama shouldn't be president because he is a Marxist with questionable beliefs and a hatred of American industry and values.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 15, 2008)

Believe It! said:


> Right, everyone who doesn't vote for Obama is a racist. Sure, sure.
> 
> Obama shouldn't be president because he is a Marxist with questionable beliefs and a hatred of American industry and values.



that's what you are reading into it.  I'm sure obama would welcome those close minded people's support (btw, the speech of his in WV, did the audience look disinterested? ). 

Some of them are not voting out of bizarre unenlightened beliefs, that they are entitled to have.  I actually don't know why middle class whites don't vote for obama, i would like to know more about it, though I doubt they would share. You are saying it's cause they think he's marxists?


----------



## Hothien (May 15, 2008)

Believe It! said:


> Right, everyone who doesn't vote for Obama is a racist. Sure, sure.



Did we say that? There are any number of ways to criticize Obama, if you don't like him, without resorting to racist t-shirts. If you don't like him, that's fine. Believe what you want.



> Obama shouldn't be president because he is a Marxist with questionable beliefs and a hatred of American industry and values.



I'd like for you to quantify these statements, or they will be ignored.


----------



## raisin-gun (May 15, 2008)

Diamed are you in the KKK?


----------



## Garlock (May 15, 2008)

Believe It! said:


> Right, everyone who doesn't vote for Obama is a racist. Sure, sure.
> 
> Obama shouldn't be president because he is a Marxist with questionable beliefs and a hatred of American industry and values.


 
I didn't vote for al sharpton last time because I thought he was racist. 

Obama should be president because OF his ideas against internet neutrality and keeping it so (meaning kiss his black ass AT&T), as well as allowing commercial companies(Virgin, Haliburton) and oil companies from exploiting set policies from the United States as if congress were looking the wrong way (Cough, Bush, Cough).

What you just said, is just like me saying:

"You should not be allowed on the internet, because everything to you is something communistic in terms of negativity, and you seem to read half of the article and compile the rest in your wild imaginative brain."

I think its funny that most of the shitflinging started with you.

And guys, please, its just a fucking T-shirt. Don't go Al Sharpton on it. Thats what he wants you to do!


----------



## Garlock (May 15, 2008)

P.s. Thread Over



> Houghton Mifflin Harcourt is considering legal action against a Georgia tavern owner selling T-shirts depicting presidential candidate Barack Obama as the Curious George monkey character.
> In a statement, the Boston publisher, which owns the book rights to Curious George, said today the firm finds the T-shirt “offensive and utterly out of keeping with the values Curious George represents.”
> The statement, issued by Houghton spokesman Richard Blake, added: “We are monitoring the situation and weighing our options with respect to possible legal action.”
> 
> ...


 
The Publishers will Win!


----------



## KonohaWind (May 15, 2008)

I'm a little curious as to why anyone would do that myself.


----------



## Frunk (May 15, 2008)

This should be something better to portray Obama, since I'm fairly certain there is not an already established racial slur based on Blacks and nukes.



In case your wondering, it's a joke.


----------



## sikvod00 (May 15, 2008)

Doc Watson said:


> And guys, please, its just a fucking T-shirt. Don't go Al Sharpton on it. Thats what he wants you to do!



Pointing out that a t-shirt has negative racial undertones, whether it was intended to or not, does not make anyone an Al Sharpton. Now demanding that the owner stop selling them, or protesting outside the tavern, that's something he'd do.


----------



## Garlock (May 15, 2008)

sikvod00 said:


> Pointing out that a t-shirt has negative racial undertones, whether it was intended to or not, does not make anyone an Al Sharpton. Now demanding that the owner stop selling them, or protesting outside the tavern, that's something he'd do.


 
Its the over-reaction. To that man EVERYTHING, including the internet, is racist.


The internet is though


----------



## Ricky (May 15, 2008)

I bet this would be worse if they used a picture of some hideous gorilla or chimp, at least it was a cute little cartoon monkey?


----------



## raisin-gun (May 15, 2008)

caf? said:


> I bet this would be worse if they used a picture of some hideous gorilla or chimp, at least it was a cute little cartoon monkey?



the guy probably couldn't afford printing a realistic picture and could only use a cartoon which had acouple of colors, cause he's an uneducated hillbilly prick


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 15, 2008)

Frunk said:


> This should be something better to portray Obama, since I'm fairly certain there is not an already established racial slur based on Blacks and nukes.
> 
> 
> 
> In case your wondering, it's a joke.



Personally I would love to see an obama done over with red "light" eyes, caption, "just as planned " 



Doc Watson said:


> Its the over-reaction. To that man EVERYTHING, including the internet, is racist.
> 
> 
> The internet is though



I disagree, sharpton is simply vigilant to injustice, for every 10 things he has an issue with, about 8 of them are right on target, but that's neither here nor there 



raisin-gun said:


> the guy probably couldn't afford printing a realistic picture and could only use a cartoon which had acouple of colors, cause he's an uneducated hillbilly prick



hope the publishing company sues that mf for his bar and his first born.


----------



## O-Ren (May 17, 2008)

I think it's pretty obvious when someone is taking a piss, this guy is. He just happened to use a monkey? People portray bush as a monkey because of the stupid things he says. Insulting someone based on itelligence/character is not rasist.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 17, 2008)

O-Ren said:


> I think it's pretty obvious when someone is taking a piss, this guy is. He just happened to use a monkey? People portray bush as a monkey because of the stupid things he says. Insulting someone based on itelligence/character is not rasist.



I won't accept that, there are a lot of differing opinions in this thread, but its almost universally accepted that this was racist.


----------



## C-Moon (May 17, 2008)

narutosimpson said:


> haha, it is a cute shirt
> 
> but seriously, this is just the tip of the iceberg , _expect diameds to weigh in as obama's victory becomes more certain_


*FUCK NO SEAKING!!*


----------



## |)/-\\/\/|\| (May 17, 2008)

Well I can't see racism in a monkey peeling a banana.


----------



## dreams lie (May 17, 2008)

|)/-\\/\/|\| said:


> Well I can't see racism in a monkey peeling a banana.



You're kidding.


----------



## |)/-\\/\/|\| (May 17, 2008)

> You're kidding.



A monkey peeling a banana is not something racist. The problem that you people seem consumed with racism and tend to over analyze things. In my country, we never experienced racism and that's why I can't find something racist in a monkey peeling a banana since I'm not consumed with racism.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 17, 2008)

You people need to brush up on your racial slurs. Calling a black person a monkey is a racial slur because at a time blacks where thought to be more ape than human. As recently as late 1900's comments were made about black athletes such as "Look at that monkey run".


----------



## Mintaka (May 17, 2008)

@Dawin:

Consumed with rascism?  No sir we are not.  However I can even see whats bad about calling anyone any sort of ape.  Thats calling them subhuman and is one of the older insults in the dictionary so yes he is insulting him.  Racailly insulting?  Maybe due to past history, however an insult it still is.


----------



## |)/-\\/\/|\| (May 17, 2008)

> Consumed with rascism? No sir we are not. However I can even see whats bad about calling anyone any sort of ape. Thats calling them subhuman and is one of the older insults in the dictionary so yes he is insulting him. Racailly insulting? Maybe due to past history, however an insult it still is.



Well I never said that it is not an insult. I'm all against all kinds of insults.


----------



## Mintaka (May 17, 2008)

Ah I sees.


----------



## sel (May 17, 2008)

Now whilst people may argue that stunts like this



Have been pulled before, please take into account there is good reason for that due to his many "bushisms," perceived stupidity, etc. Arguably he's earned the right to be compared to a monkey.

Obama on the other hand has yet to make any gaffe which has caught the public eye. Consider the terminology _"Porch Monkey."_

Of course racial innuendo was intended.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 17, 2008)

|)/-\\/\/|\| said:


> A monkey peeling a banana is not something racist. The problem that you people seem consumed with racism and tend to over analyze things. In my country, we never experienced racism and that's why I can't find something racist in a monkey peeling a banana since I'm not consumed with racism.



among people who aren't familiar with US racism, then I can see why this wouldn't bother you.  But here in the US this is more likely racist than not racist.


This pic looks like satire where bush actually is the curious george monkey, the caption seems to resemble the story telling style.  Bush is said by many to live in his own little world, just like curious george.


----------



## Believe It! (May 17, 2008)

narutosimpson said:
			
		

> that's what you are reading into it. I'm sure obama would welcome those close minded people's support (btw, the speech of his in WV, did the audience look disinterested? ).



No, they looked few in number though. Oh, and wasn't it Obama who went right to Indiana the night he lost Pennsylvania? Which basically said, screw all those in Penn who supported me because you aren't enough. And didn't he end up losing Indiana anyway?

Wow. That's a real swell guy you have there NS.



			
				narutosimpson said:
			
		

> Some of them are not voting out of bizarre unenlightened beliefs, that they are entitled to have.



Well they're democrat, what else would you expect?



			
				narutosimpson said:
			
		

> I actually don't know why middle class whites don't vote for obama,



Maybe its because he supports a racist, anti-semitic, anti-American pastor. Maybe because he thinks people are bitter and use their guns and Bible as crutches and furthermore are racist because they hold antipathy for those who are not like them.

Maybe it's because he is too radical in some views and too vague in the rest. Maybe it's because he wants to meet with terrorist and socialist dictators.

So I don't see what it has to do with them being white. There are plenty of reasons to reject Obama's policies and schemes. It doesn't matter that he is black. At least not to those people.

See, I on the other hand cannot understand why black people like Obama and will vote for him. Seems to me that most black people will vote for him because most black people are racist and will vote for black man based on the color of his skin rather than the content of his character.

Perhaps you can enlighten this poor dumb middle-class white boy.



			
				narutosimpson said:
			
		

> i would like to know more about it, though I doubt they would share. You are saying it's cause they think he's marxists?



Perhaps. I think he's a Marxist, and Obama even admits to hanging out with Marxists and smoking dope with them in college.



			
				Willaien said:
			
		

> Did we say that?



Some on your side have, yes.



			
				Willaien said:
			
		

> There are any number of ways to criticize Obama, if you don't like him, without resorting to racist t-shirts. If you don't like him, that's fine. Believe what you want.



Now wait a minute. Where was this racism claim when Bush was called a chimp and a monkey all those times? When he was compared to monkeys, both mentally and facially, I didn't hear anyone screaming racism. WTH?

Obama shouldn't be president because he is a Marxist with questionable beliefs and a hatred of American industry and values.  



			
				Willaien said:
			
		

> I'd like for you to quantify these statements, or they will be ignored.



Marxist: 

Questionable beliefs: See Jeremiah Wright and Obama's refusal to denounce his pastor. Resco. Ayers. Michelle Obama.

For hates American industry: See speech to Detroit automakers on creating autos that use much less carbon and having them pay for it themselves while foreign cars get a free pass. See climate change policies. See votes against ANWAR drilling and refining.

For hates American values: See Induced Infant Liability Act, which protects infants born to mothers from being killed or left to die. Obama voted against it. See sex-ed to kindergarteners. Obama voted for teaching five-year-olds how to masturbate. See Obama's plan for retreat in Iraq. Obama admitted to al-Queda being in Iraq NOW, even if they haven't always, and yet he still says that we should retreat and possibly go back in should al-Queda regain its strength and stranglehold on Iraq.



			
				Cardboard Tube Knight said:
			
		

> That attitude about it being a white man's game is part of what keeps black society down. We're so focused on how 'whites keep us down' that we're not even trying to move up.



I agree, but guess who is saying that all the time. DEMOCRATS. LIBERALS. Those who want to keep you down. Those who want to keep you divided. Those who want to keep you on welfare. That's so they can sell you the hope that your lives will be made better by big government.



			
				Cardboard Tube Knight said:
			
		

> You're a racist, there's nothing else to it. And not because you don't like Obama, but because since he's entered the race you've done nothing but talk about his.



That's a lie. What do you mean I have done NOTHING but talk about his race? I've talked about his boneheaded policies. I've talked about his destructive ideals. I've talked about his elitist sentiments. I've talked about his wrongful actions. I've talked about his terrible record.

What do you mean I've done nothing but talk about his race? You are aware that the first ones to bring up his race are the democrats, don't you? So no, I may on occasion address him as what he is, both inside and out, but I never prejudged him based on his race and I have never bashed him based on his race.



			
				Doc Watson said:
			
		

> I didn't vote for al sharpton last time because I thought he was racist.



Well you were right.



			
				Doc Watson said:
			
		

> Obama should be president because OF his ideas against internet neutrality and keeping it so (meaning kiss his black ass AT&T), as well as allowing commercial companies(Virgin, Haliburton) and oil companies from exploiting set policies from the United States as if congress were looking the wrong way (Cough, Bush, Cough).



What? That made no sense. He is against Internet neutrality? That means he is for censorship and heavy monitoring, right? Also, this has nothing to do with the oil companies. Congress has marched the oil execs into the hearings, and each time they find nothing and the execs march right back out. The problem is an economic one. America does not have enough refineries. Production is slowed. Supply is limited and not running at what they could be. You want to blame someone? Blame the Saudis for cutting back on their supply. Blame Congress for preventing America from drilling in ANWAR, the Dakotas, the gulf, and off our shores. The damn Congress says to think about the environment, when in fact China and other countries are drilling off of our own shores as you read this! It doesn't matter how much we care about the environment, SOMEONE is going to drill the oil out anyway! WHY NOT LET IT BE US?!?!



			
				Doc Watson said:
			
		

> What you just said, is just like me saying:
> 
> "You should not be allowed on the internet



Stop. Internet access is a right. Being President is not. It is a privilege that one is rewarded by the people of America. If the people of America see Obama as the Marxist that he is, then they can reject him and not vote for him.



			
				Doc Watson said:
			
		

> I think its funny that most of the shitflinging started with you.



Speaking the truth does not equal "shit-flinging". This is America. In America we have the freedom of speech. I am free to disagree with you and state my opinion on Obama, as well as post facts against him.



			
				Doc Watson said:
			
		

> And guys, please, its just a fucking T-shirt. Don't go Al Sharpton on it. Thats what he wants you to do!



Oh so I fling the crap and yet you agree with me in the end.


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 17, 2008)

Believe It! said:


> Well they're democrat, what else would you expect?



Supposedly they are democrat, but they voted bush, 1 or 2x?  Demo wise they seem more like republicans than democrats.  I'm surprised it's considered a democratic state tbh.

that's as much as I'm going to feed the troll.


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## Believe It! (May 17, 2008)

narutosimpson said:
			
		

> Supposedly they are democrat, but they voted bush, 1 or 2x? Demo wise they seem more like republicans than democrats. I'm surprised it's considered a democratic state tbh.



So they are Republicans for voting for the lesser of two evils over John "Harry" Kerry and Al Snore? You dems just need to find better candidates, that's all. Try finding someone who is proud to be an American and will stand up for the people and serve them. Oh but then you might actually find yourself on the side of conservatives.

*No need to troll here.*


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## maximilyan (May 17, 2008)

It's obviously racist, but its still funny. and this is coming from a black person.


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## Elim Rawne (May 17, 2008)

BI= Curious George,ftw!


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## ZeroBlack (May 17, 2008)

Believe It! said:


> So they are Republicans for voting for the lesser of two evils over John "Harry" Kerry and Al Snore? You dems just need to find better candidates, that's all. Try finding someone who is proud to be an American and will stand up for the people and serve them. Oh but then you might actually find yourself on the side of conservatives.
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't you respond to my points? I love how as soon as a liberal loses out in a discussion they instantly blow off the opponent and dismiss him as not being serious.



I love how you feel someone's trying to cop out of a discussion/s] retarded ant with you because they know better than to waste their time. We all know not even even dynamite can crack that skull of yours.


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## Hothien (May 18, 2008)

Believe It! said:


> Now wait a minute. Where was this racism claim when Bush was called a chimp and a monkey all those times? When he was compared to monkeys, both mentally and facially, I didn't hear anyone screaming racism. WTH?
> 
> Obama shouldn't be president because he is a Marxist with questionable beliefs and a hatred of American industry and values.



You're an idiot. You don't even understand what a racial slur is.




> Marxist:



AIM.org is a conservative group... and they make dubious claims... about a liberal. Huge surprise, right?



> Questionable beliefs: See Jeremiah Wright and Obama's refusal to denounce his pastor. Resco. Ayers. Michelle Obama.



Umm. He did denounce his pastor, remember?



> For hates American industry: See speech to Detroit automakers on creating autos that use much less carbon and having them pay for it themselves while foreign cars get a free pass. See climate change policies. See votes against ANWAR drilling and refining.



Global warming is occurring, and we are raping our environment. Deal with it. Grow up.



> For hates American values: See Induced Infant Liability Act, which protects infants born to mothers from being killed or left to die. Obama voted against it. See sex-ed to kindergarteners. Obama voted for teaching five-year-olds how to masturbate. See Obama's plan for retreat in Iraq. Obama admitted to al-Queda being in Iraq NOW, even if they haven't always, and yet he still says that we should retreat and possibly go back in should al-Queda regain its strength and stranglehold on Iraq.



Red herring, , and finally, I guess you don't mind our country bleeding billions in a war that is unwinnable.


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## Suigetsu (May 18, 2008)

I wish curious george had postulated.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 18, 2008)

No War is unwinnable, people just aren't willing to do what it takes to win.


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 18, 2008)

Willaien said:


> You're an idiot. You don't even understand what a racial slur is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



that's why i said don't play with the troll.  Support obama and then spam BI with obama victory messages later on.  That stupid avy can only be the sign of a mentally deficient person.


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## Sky is Over (May 18, 2008)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> No War is unwinnable, people just aren't willing to do what it takes to win.



QFT definetly.


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## Zephos (May 18, 2008)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> No War is unwinnable, people just aren't willing to do what it takes to win.



Yhea, I could kill my roomate with a baseball bat to get over our current fracas but I guess I'm too much of a pinko traitor coward.


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## Rock Lee (May 18, 2008)

I see this is where BI got that stupid avatar,this kind of non sense doesn't surprise me whatsoever and in my opinion it will only help him get elected but i hope the secret service is literally going to the bathroom with him.


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## Gary (May 18, 2008)

wow                          lol


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 18, 2008)

^ i agree, irrational people like BI are the greatest threat to stability and prosperity.  Monkey ava


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## Watchman (May 18, 2008)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> No War is unwinnable, people just aren't willing to do what it takes to win.



I partially agree, but it depends on your definition of "win". America could, pretty easily, turn the Middle East into Nuclear Wastelandistan, but at what cost to their moral standing amongst the world, and amongst themselves? At what point does eliminating the enemy take precedence over human decency, and what terrible consequences are there if people take that view repeatedly?


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## Simulacrum (May 18, 2008)

HK-47 said:


> I partially agree, but it depends on your definition of "win". America could, pretty easily, turn the Middle East into Nuclear Wastelandistan, but at what cost to their moral standing amongst the world, and amongst themselves? At what point does eliminating the enemy take precedence over human decency, and what terrible consequences are there if people take that view repeatedly?


 Once they started bombing civilian targets (years and years ago, before Bush ever took office) the line between "moral standing" and "providing adequate defense" was pushed way back. 

As long as we're making ridiculous hypothetical situations, if all the islamic fundamentalists got together in a group to chant "death to America" by themselves somewhere in the mountains, I'd approve of nuking them off the face of the earth.


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## Watchman (May 18, 2008)

Sorry, I had to respond, even though it was rather off-topic. 


*Spoiler*: __ 





Simulacrum said:


> Once they started bombing civilian targets (years and years ago, before Bush ever took office) the line between "moral standing" and "providing adequate defense" was pushed way back.



They bomb civilian targets, you bomb civilian targets, who is right? There is a reason why American soldiers aren't kidnapping Iraqi militants and beheading them, which is because according to the American moral code, that is wrong, and going against it is not acceptable. Providing adequate defence can be attained without fucking up the lives of everyone who had the misfortune to live in a village used as a staging point by the militants.



> As long as we're making ridiculous hypothetical situations, if all the islamic fundamentalists got together in a group to chant "death to America" by themselves somewhere in the mountains, I'd approve of nuking them off the face of the earth.



So would I.  (Bet you weren't expecting that, eh?) But if they gathered in a city in the Middle East, I wouldn't, because I disagree with causing massive amounts of misery to civilians in order to execute a military target. (not to mention that such an act would just create more Islamic Fundamentalists, since you've just handed them a "look, the West _does_ hate us and want to destroy our way of life!" propaganda coup.




On topic, we all knew it was just a matter of time until the racial slurs came out against Obama. We knew it, hopefully we're prepared for it, but at the end of the day, if people have nothing better to do with their lives than belittle others due to their ethnicity, I won't waste time getting angry at them. I'll just pity them and their short-sighted, superficial view of the world.


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## AbnormallyNormal (May 18, 2008)

well it is indicative that racism may doom his candidacy


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## sikvod00 (May 18, 2008)

^ Stop being so gloomy.


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## Razgriez (May 18, 2008)

This is stupid.

All those who like to bunch this guy up with the rest of the conservatives can go to hell! Racists are nothing more then an minority that is highly vocal and the media loves eating it up and presenting to everyone. Then most of you take this to another level grouping idiots like that with others. A lot of you are no different then BI your just on the other political spectrum then he is.


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 18, 2008)

Razgriez said:


> This is stupid.
> 
> All those who like to bunch this guy up with the rest of the conservatives can go to hell! Racists are nothing more then an minority that is highly vocal and the media loves eating it up and presenting to everyone. Then most of you take this to another level grouping idiots like that with others. A lot of you are no different then BI your just on the other political spectrum then he is.



get real , BI makes the most bizarre statements and associations and stupid threads.  If recognizing racism as a problem make a person like BI ,you lack persepective.

Also how long has the thread title said "skirt" ?


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## Simulacrum (May 18, 2008)

HK-47 said:


> They bomb civilian targets, you bomb civilian targets, who is right? There is a reason why American soldiers aren't kidnapping Iraqi militants and beheading them, which is because according to the American moral code, that is wrong, and going against it is not acceptable. Providing adequate defence can be attained without fucking up the lives of everyone who had the misfortune to live in a village used as a staging point by the militants.


 Uh, they _hide_ among civilians. If locals stopped supporting them then things would be a lot easier. If you're really trying to compare the US to islamic radicals on this point then you're hopeless. 




> So would I.  (Bet you weren't expecting that, eh?) But if they gathered in a city in the Middle East, I wouldn't, because I disagree with causing massive amounts of misery to civilians in order to execute a military target. (not to mention that such an act would just create more Islamic Fundamentalists, since you've just handed them a "look, the West _does_ hate us and want to destroy our way of life!" propaganda coup.


 There is no grand solution that will fix every problem. Many muslims in the middle east are tired of their nations being run by extremist law, but if they help us and we stop fighting the enemy then they become the new target. We have to fight to expel the radicals if there's any hope of winning the trust of the people over there, and without their trust there is no victory. War is hell, but this isn't much worse than what they've been living with for decades. 9/11 showed us that this is not a problem they can or are even willing to fix themselves - in fact, it's actually very convenient for the political ruling class over there, as long as we weren't going to do anything about it they were just going to sit back and stoke the flames of hatred. One of the major causes for 9/11, according to the 9/11 Commission, was that we were not at war is those who are at war with us. Now they've proven beyond all doubt that they are a threat, so it's time to man up and destroy those who want to destroy us and put an end to this bullshit.


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## C-Moon (May 18, 2008)

Razgriez said:


> This is stupid.
> 
> * All those who like to bunch this guy up with the rest of the conservatives can go to hell!* Racists are nothing more then an minority that is highly vocal and the media loves eating it up and presenting to everyone. Then most of you take this to another level grouping idiots like that with others. A lot of you are no different then BI your just on the other political spectrum then he is.



*We're posting in the Cafe. We're already in hell.* Do you even read his shit? He's one of the few worse than Diamed.


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## Lezard Valeth (May 19, 2008)

AbnormallyNormal said:


> well it is indicative that racism may doom his candidacy



sadly, I agree
if more and more racism is expressed like that, it will only heaten the racial tensions and that could be bad for Obama, let's hope he can overcome this


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## Kyou (May 19, 2008)

I think everyone is way too sensitive these days.

Monkey, person, lawl. Looks similar?

I've seen George Bush's facial expressions matched to monkeys and chimps and shit, where were the dumbasses screaming racist then?

As soon as the skin colour changes and there insulted, its immediately racism, It's like irking up more, and I've seen like black guys say if someone insults them they're being racist; and they truly believe it, and it's fricken ridiculous.

It's like, reducing tolerance, in whatever levels people have.

Personally, I don't really notice race that much; like I acknowledge different colour skin as much as I acknowledge different colour hair, I'll insult them if I think they're a dickhead, and I'll say they look like something if I believe they do.

If someone thinks Curious George and Obama look alike, how does that bring race into it, Curious George is brown monkey, yeah? But It's not the body... it's more the face; my gosh.
This constant thing of "Multiculturalism" bullshit, like. I'm multicultural and crap but I'm not gonna go out of my way to give special treatment to anyone.

MANY have been compared to animals, and its crap that once its a different skin colour its RACIST!! OMFG!.

Stupid people.


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## BeyonderZ (May 19, 2008)

narutosimpson said:


> it was the heartland that gave unbelievable support to obama and pushed him to frontrunner status diamed, can your super white people be so wrong?
> 
> BTW obama is half white, kiss his feet.





Barry is not Martin Luther King Jr or a Kennedy.. people just imagine him as. 


on the OP, this is what America has become.. those people complaining don't have anything else to do with their time.


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## Axl Low (May 19, 2008)

Curious George got involved.


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## Xion (May 19, 2008)

lava said:


> Amen Diamend Glad there are others that understand theres  a little to "much" of something in this country.



Diamed has found himself a fan. 

Look for a Racism FC in the future.


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## drache (May 19, 2008)

S e a n said:


> I think everyone is way too sensitive these days.
> 
> Monkey, person, lawl. Looks similar?
> 
> ...


 
I'm sorry but you're an idiot.

You have no clue as the history of race in America and how calling people monkeys has been used to dehumanize them and rationalize bigtory.

Please don't comment on that which you know nothing about.


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