# Shigekuni Yamamoto and Ichibei Hyosube vs Hashirama Senju and Madara Uchiha



## Catalyst75 (Mar 8, 2015)

Distance: 100 metres

Location: Valley of the End

Blood-Lust: On

Restriction: Madara only has Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan

NOTE: This is not to place the second team at a disadvantage.  If there were no restrictions, it might as well be just Madara vs Ichibei and Yamamoto, since a "non-restricted Madara" would have the Rinnegan and Hashirama's Wood Release on top of his Sharingan powers (not to mention the Juubi, if we go that far).

P.S. My apologies if this match turns out to be lop-sided.


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## justiceseeker (Mar 8, 2015)

Ichibei  names all Wood Release into Weed release and they smoke it 
unless one of them becames jinjuuriki team Naruto loses horribly


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## Warlordgab (Mar 8, 2015)

I actually think Ichibei naming ability gives him a Yama a little advantage; but doesn't he need to cover his victim in his zanpakuto's ink? If that's the case Madara and Hashirama overwhelming speed might allow them to avoid the attack


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 8, 2015)

justiceseeker said:


> Ichibei  names all Wood Release into Weed release and they smoke it
> unless one of them becames jinjuuriki team Naruto loses horribly



You are aware of the calcs involved with Hashirama and Madara, are you not?

I didn't make the thread for the purpose of one side "losing horribly".  I wanted a battle where the fight's end result would be close.


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## Vicotex (Mar 8, 2015)

Ichiebie might have a shot tho


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## Gunstarvillain (Mar 8, 2015)

Madara catches Black Ant. He has no rin. God help Mad if he's in character at all. Ichi is going to paint sussanos.

I'm for Madara alm ost every time but they are against some pretty strong hax.


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## Vicotex (Mar 8, 2015)

Does ichiebie has resistance against illusion?


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## Warlordgab (Mar 8, 2015)

Does somebody here know how fast is Ichibei? I know he managed to run 1000 ri in mere seconds but how much is that?


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## Gibbs (Mar 8, 2015)

Bringer of Darkness followed by decapitation.


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 8, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> Does somebody here know how fast is Ichibei? I know he managed to run 1000 ri in mere seconds but how much is that?



Roughly 3927 kilometres, but the last time I checked it wasn't generally accepted for...certain reasons.


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## Pocalypse (Mar 8, 2015)

Ichibei sprays his cum on both of them and turns them into ants.


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## Gibbs (Mar 8, 2015)

Pocalypse said:


> Ichibei sprays his cum on both of them and turns them into ants.



Turns out to be blocks of wood  Substitution technique.


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## Warlordgab (Mar 8, 2015)

Catalyst75 said:


> Roughly 3927 kilometres, but the last time I checked it wasn't generally accepted for...certain reasons.



Thanks   But I wonder what those reasons are? 

Anyway, what about this? Ichibei bitchslap Madara into the air and spray his ink on him while flying so he can nerf all his powers


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## Gibbs (Mar 8, 2015)

Last I checked or heard, the reason that calc is being disputed is due to the lack of time difference between the panels.


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 8, 2015)

Gibbs said:


> Last I checked or heard, the reason that calc is being disputed is due to the lack of time difference between the panels.



That is pretty much the case.  

Hard to see why, since the moment from when Yhwach was sent flying to when Ichibei caught up with him was literally three panels.  There's not much space to extend the time of the calc.


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## Sablés (Mar 8, 2015)

A sequence of events doesn't directly correlate with time and its dishonest to attribute a timeframe of 1 second to a feat you can't quantify; that is why there's a minute average placed here.

OT: 100 meters is well within Ichibei's range and out of Naruto TT's blitz range. He could probably take it alone.


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## Energy (Mar 8, 2015)

Gibbs said:


> Turns out to be blocks of wood  Substitution technique.



There'll be no wood around to substitute with, when there's 16 million degrees celsius in the area thought you'd realise this BD.
Team Naruto gets wrecked pretty hard nonetheless


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## LazyWaka (Mar 8, 2015)

Liquid said:


> A sequence of events doesn't directly correlate with time and its dishonest to attribute a timeframe of 1 second to a feat you can't quantify; that is why there's a minute average placed here.
> 
> OT: 100 meters is well within Ichibei's range and out of Naruto TT's blitz range. He could probably take it alone.



Why is it out of team Naruto's range? Hashirama alone has casual attacks that pop up underneath the opponent from hundreds of meters away.

But yeah, Ichibei has a pretty strong chance at this.


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 8, 2015)

Liquid said:


> A sequence of events doesn't directly correlate with time and its dishonest to attribute a timeframe of 1 second to a feat you can't quantify; that is why there's a *minute average* placed here.
> 
> OT: 100 meters is well within Ichibei's range and out of Naruto TT's blitz range. He could probably take it alone.




*Spoiler*: __ 








The problem with that is the sequence of events is implied to take place in a short amount of time.  

Yhwach is sent flying by Senri Tsuutenshou ----> a panel of Yhwach grunting in pain from the impact of the blow and the velocity of his flight  -----> Ichibei pops up alongside Yhwach to explain the technique.  

At the most, I'd estimate that sequence of events to be around 5 seconds.  One to two seconds would be the minimum.  What the feat itself does is in the name and Ichibei's description of it.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 8, 2015)

Naruto team wins. What's Yamamoto supposed to do? Blow up? Hashirama blocks that with his wood. Likewise his Buddha is too much for the other team. This is low Teratons vs 100 gigatons or so. Ichibei isn't just ignoring that along with the speed difference.


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## Dellinger (Mar 8, 2015)

How fast is Bleach?


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## LazyWaka (Mar 8, 2015)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Naruto team wins. What's Yamamoto supposed to do? Blow up? Hashirama blocks that with his wood. Likewise his Buddha is too much for the other team. This is low Teratons vs 100 gigatons or so. Ichibei isn't just ignoring that along with the speed difference.



Problem is the Buddha isn't exactly quickly activated and the speed difference is negligible at best (mach 250 vs mach 450).

really the Buddha isn't needed though, his generic Mokuton attacks were capable of matching Madara's PS which is High triple digit Gigatons/1+TT. Really this is a match for whoever gets the first real hit in. Also Yama's regular attacks in Bankai are also triple digit gigatons, which is more enough to slaughter Madara or Hashirama without wood/susano'o defences.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 8, 2015)

White Hawk said:


> How fast is Bleach?



They're legit mach 60 via Kenpachi. Or via calc stack they're mach 200.


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## Sablés (Mar 8, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> Why is it out of team Naruto's range? Hashirama alone has casual attacks that pop up underneath the opponent from hundreds of meters away.
> 
> But yeah, Ichibei has a pretty strong chance at this.



Out of range to pull of a blitz. Ichibei can attack them using the color on their body, there's no movement or lag aside from swinging his arm, can Hashi do the same?


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## LazyWaka (Mar 8, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Out of range to pull of a blitz. Ichibei can attack them using the color on their body, there's no movement or lag aside from swinging his arm, *can Hashi do the same*?



He kinda just clapped his hands together and out came a dozen or so giant Mokuton Arms right underneath Kurama.


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## Energy (Mar 8, 2015)

Even if you put a super low-end on the ichibei feat with a 10 second timeframe he'd be mach 1200.


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## TheSteamedDemon (Mar 8, 2015)

Ichibei and Yamamoto easily take this, in this case the oppositions firepower means nothing.


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## Vicotex (Mar 8, 2015)

Forevermach29 losses



TheSteamedDemon said:


> Ichibei and Yamamoto easily take this, in this case the oppositions firepower means nothing.



1 post?
Prolly a dupe.

Bleach team get rekt


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## Sablés (Mar 8, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> He kinda just clapped his hands together and out came a dozen or so giant Mokuton Arms right underneath Kurama.



Fair enough on that end. I don't think anyone on the Bleach side are physically strong enough to break free of Hashi's mokuton. It'll depend on whether Yama can burn the roots of him with Bankai.

Also? The teraton feat for ZnT is outdated, SS is clearly much larger than the assumed distance I suggested.


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## ShadowReaper (Mar 8, 2015)

Team 2 wins.


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## Warlordgab (Mar 8, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Fair enough on that end. I don't think anyone on the Bleach side are physically strong enough to break free of Hashi's mokuton. It'll depend on whether Yama can burn the roots of him with Bankai.



Yamamoto might be able to do that; his destrutive power and AOE steadily increase as long as his Bankai remains active, so he probably could build up enough power to burn down Hashirama's wood

Also, it seems people forgot Yamamoto's Bankai can summon an army of zombies, they won't be able to harm sufficiently strong opponents, but they might be a useful distraction that can provide an opening which Ichibei can take advantage of in order to nerf their enemies stats


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## Vicotex (Mar 8, 2015)

^you also forgot that hashi and madara can clone themselves.
Summon kyuubi GG


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 8, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Fair enough on that end. I don't think anyone on the Bleach side are physically strong enough to break free of Hashi's mokuton. It'll depend on whether Yama can burn the roots of him with Bankai.
> 
> Also? *The teraton feat for ZnT is outdated, SS is clearly much larger than the assumed distance I suggested*.



What would the current size be now?  I know I've done calcs for the Seireitei's size based on Yoruichi's statement, but this particular statement is new to me.

As for the Mokuton, that is kind of assuming that Mokuton can resist up to the temperature of the sun's core, which is what Zanjitsu Gokui is stated to be, and the minimum considered for Kyokujitsujin and Tenchi Kaijin.


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## Sablés (Mar 8, 2015)

using Earth's radius as a default size would push it to around double digit petatons but I understand there are some reservations on that front.

that said, there is at the very least a 4000km radius in soul society as indirectly stated by Ichibei which would place it at single digit petatons



assuming yama can output even 1% of that energy casually, he'd still be in the double digit teratons.


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## Warlordgab (Mar 8, 2015)

Vicotex said:


> ^you also forgot that hashi and madara can clone themselves.
> Summon kyuubi GG



Will the Kyuubi be allowed in this battle? If that's the case, Madara and Hasirama already won


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## Alita (Mar 9, 2015)

Naruto team should stomp here. espically considering they are bloodlusted.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Mar 9, 2015)

What the fuck is Ichibei's power anyway, I don't get it to this day, care to explain ?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 9, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> What the fuck is Ichibei's power anyway, I don't get it to this day, care to explain ?



Something about controlling black and being able to change the name of something and therefore it's properties as well (not to a particularly hax extent, but he was going to turn the guy with a mustache into an ant, names are power in Bleachverse with Zanpakuto and what not so it's hard to say how effective it is otherwise), somehow he halved that guy's power, and he can push others away a certain distance.

Something like that 

or at least that's what I remember.


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## MAPSK (Mar 9, 2015)

If the revisions to Ichibei's speed feat and the size of SS are accepted, then Clorox takes this. If not, it comes down to who gets the first good hit in, which I'm gonna go out on a limb and still give to Bleach considering Yama's implied feat of destroying the SS, which would be impressive even without dem petatons.


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## Gunstarvillain (Mar 9, 2015)

ICHIBEI "SAY MY NAME"

Yama could resurrect ichi even if he were to go down.
znt west keeps yama safe from wood attacks and we all know where it goes from there.


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## Regicide (Mar 9, 2015)

I'll leave Maples to argue about the size of Soul Society.

But that aside, is there a reason we can't use the radiation calculator for Yama's bankai? We have both a temperature and a surface area.


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## LazyWaka (Mar 9, 2015)

Gunstarvillain said:


> ICHIBEI "SAY MY NAME"
> 
> Yama could resurrect ichi even if he were to go down



Yes, but he comes back in a weakened state.


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## Stermor (Mar 9, 2015)

Liquid said:


> using Earth's radius as a default size would push it to around double digit petatons but I understand there are some reservations on that front.
> 
> that said, there is at the very least a 4000km radius in soul society as indirectly stated by Ichibei which would place it at single digit petatons
> 
> ...



this would also be assuming that he can output that kind of power in one go.. that becomes incredibly unlikely the bigger the distance is.. since we are talking about fire, it could just become self-sustainable and eventually over several days/months/years burn everything.. 

we are all basing it on a statement, which is likely true based on the person who said it, but we have no context.. 

anyway yamamoto is pretty much a non issue, he doesn't have the damage to really compete. ichibei is the problem factor.. but why not just genjutsu him instantly? some random sharingan illusion seems like a nice choice then drop a budha on him..


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## Warlordgab (Mar 9, 2015)

Stermor said:


> anyway yamamoto is pretty much a non issue, he doesn't have the damage to really compete. ichibei is the problem factor.. but why not just genjutsu him instantly? some random sharingan illusion seems like a nice choice then drop a budha on him..



Madara is capable of such thing; but he'll most likely not use it. During the war, even though he not only was a vicious warrior, he also proved to have an ego; he always opted to overpower his opponents and sometimes phisically engage them instead of simply castinh a Genjutsu to instantly imcapacitate them. So he can use Genjutsu, but as a "blood knight" he'll probably prefer to crush his victims in a way that proves his superiority


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## LazyWaka (Mar 9, 2015)

Unless stated otherwise CIS is off by default.


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## Sablés (Mar 9, 2015)

Stermor said:


> this would also be assuming that he can output that kind of power in one go.. that becomes incredibly unlikely the bigger the distance is.. since we are talking about fire, it could just become self-sustainable and eventually over several days/months/years burn everything..
> 
> we are all basing it on a statement, which is likely true based on the person who said it, but we have no context..
> 
> anyway yamamoto is pretty much a non issue, he doesn't have the damage to really compete. ichibei is the problem factor.. but why not just genjutsu him instantly? some random sharingan illusion seems like a nice choice then drop a budha on him..



We've been over this same discussion before and I don't see why you keep bringing it up whenever you can. A wildfire is something that can easily be stopped by the Royal Guard or Science division, Yama has nothing to fear in that event. We've seen an identical scenario of what occurs when Yama's flames are left unchecked and the context does not describe what you're suggesting.





Madara would need to make direct eye contact with either for genjutsu to work. Distance is 100 meters, they won't close that gap before Ichibei murks them or Hashirama puts the 2 down with mokuton


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## Warlordgab (Mar 9, 2015)

​Then, unless Bleach characters have a way to break themselves free from illusions, Madara won the "Haxier than thou" award in this battle...



Liquid said:


> Madara would need to make direct eye contact with either for genjutsu to work. Distance is 100 meters, they won't close that gap before Ichibei murks them or Hashirama puts the 2 down with mokuton



Or not XD


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## SilverMizuji (Mar 9, 2015)

Madara could stomp Yhwach Mad can solo this.


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## Regicide (Mar 9, 2015)

What Stermor is suggesting is still just as retarded as when he first brought it up.

The entirety of Soul Society isn't flammable. A wildfire isn't going to consume the place.


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## LazyWaka (Mar 9, 2015)

Another theory is that he just kills a few thousand people as a side effect which could cause an unbalance in the souls which could put SS at a huge risk

Just handing out theory's is all.


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## Sablés (Mar 9, 2015)

Nah, its pretty evident what's going on here


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## Stermor (Mar 9, 2015)

Liquid said:


> We've been over this same discussion before and I don't see why you keep bringing it up whenever you can. A wildfire is something that can easily be stopped by the Royal Guard or Science division, Yama has nothing to fear in that event. We've seen an identical scenario of what occurs when Yama's flames are left unchecked and the context does not describe what you're suggesting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



because you are just trying to make huge numbers appear... with no other feats comming close (hell every other feat put together doesn't come close).. therefor thinking that there is more to a random statement seems much better then dumbly calcing something.. 

but it is really easy prove somebody else can do something remotely similar and you can have the benefit of the doubt.. until then just accepting something without context to get big numbers is idiotic at best.. 

and yes i understand people can put out fires... but there is also a chance most of the strong guys would have died before that.. which to me seems way way way way way way more likely that yamamoto having more power then every other shinigami put together by a huge margin... look what i think might happen is probebly not what would have happened.. but your version is way way way more unlikely that is all there is too it.. 

so use bringer of darkness first.. pretty decent range and would fuck sight.. but really who cares. just instantly drop budha and regardless of whatever happens the bleach team dies...



Regicide said:


> What Stermor is suggesting is still just as retarded as when he first brought it up.
> 
> The entirety of Soul Society isn't flammable. A wildfire isn't going to consume the place.



you mean it is retarded to think of other things then blindly calcing some on a no context statement..  

everything is flammable aswell remember he is suposed to be as hot as the sun.. maybe he just creates nuclear fusion or something.. who cares.. we don't know what happens.. therefor you can't assume he can instantly detonate something like that.. which btw is so much more unlikely then him burning stuff...


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## Mr. Black Leg (Mar 9, 2015)

Regicide said:


> What Stermor is suggesting is still just as retarded as when he first brought it up.
> 
> *The entirety of Soul Society isn't flammable.* A wildfire isn't going to consume the place.



Isn't it all made out of wood ? Japanese house style ?


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## MAPSK (Mar 9, 2015)

Stermor said:


> you mean it is retarded to think of other things then blindly calcing some on a no context statement..
> 
> everything is flammable aswell remember he is suposed to be as hot as the sun.. maybe he just creates nuclear fusion or something.. who cares.. we don't know what happens.. therefor you can't assume he can instantly detonate something like that.. which btw is so much more unlikely then him burning stuff...



Except anything as hot as the sun would immediately burst in a cloud of nuclear fire. Once something gets hot enough fast enough, it skips melting or burning altogether and just fucking explodes. It's how real life military chemlasers work. 

So yes, Yamamoto's bankai would by definition explode, not burn in the traditional sense.


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## Warlordgab (Mar 9, 2015)

MAPSK said:


> Except anything as hot as the sun would immediately burst in a cloud of nuclear fire. Once something gets hot enough fast enough, it skips melting or burning altogether and just fucking explodes. It's how real life military chemlasers work.
> 
> So yes, Yamamoto's bankai would by definition explode, not burn in the traditional sense.



That would happen if Yamamoto became a veritable human-sized sun; but since neither he or SS exploded I don't think that's the case


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## MAPSK (Mar 9, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> That would happen if Yamamoto became a veritable human-sized sun; but since neither he or SS exploded I don't think that's the case





/10chars


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## Shunssj (Mar 9, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> That would happen if Yamamoto became a veritable human-sized sun; but since neither he or SS exploded I don't think that's the case



he obviously kept his power in check, Unohana said it would eventually destroy soul society


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## Regicide (Mar 9, 2015)

Stermor said:


> everything is flammable aswell remember he is suposed to be as hot as the sun.. maybe he just creates nuclear fusion or something.. who cares..


I see the concept of Occam's Razor is still beyond your pitiful comprehension.

Please just stop talking.


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## Regicide (Mar 9, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Isn't it all made out of wood ? Japanese house style ?


Soul Society =/= Seireitei and Rukongai

And even if we're just talking about those, they're not entirely composed of village and forest.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Mar 9, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Soul Society =/= Seireitei and Rukongai
> 
> And even if we're just talking about those, they're not entirely composed of village and forest.



I don't fucking know Bleach .


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## Regicide (Mar 9, 2015)

I didn't imply that you did?

You know what, fuck it.


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## Warlordgab (Mar 9, 2015)

It seems this thread just became Yamamoto Vs Hashirama... what about if Ichibei and Yamamoto somehow manage to avoid Hashirama mokuton?


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## Sablés (Mar 9, 2015)

Stermor said:


> but it is really easy prove somebody else can do something remotely similar and you can have the benefit of the doubt.. until then just accepting something without context to get big numbers is idiotic at best..
> 
> and yes i understand people can put out fires... but there is also a chance most of the strong guys would have died before that.. which to me seems way way way way way way more likely that yamamoto having more power then every other shinigami put together by a huge margin... look what i think might happen is probebly not what would have happened.. but your version is way way way more unlikely that is all there is too it..



This post is so autistic it hurts.

It isn't "you might be wrong", you absolutely are.

You keep parroting context and probability, I don't think you know what they mean. If you did? You'd know there is context in the feat -Urgency- It is the basis for my assumption in the first place (which for your information, isn't much of one) and ironically, is in direct contrast to the nonsense you've been spouting.



> since we are talking about fire, it could just become self-sustainable and eventually over several days/months/years burn everything..



What you don't seem to realize is that this theory requires more assumptions that what I've proposed: a simple relation between the effects of his flames spanning out of control in shikai to that of his bankai, something that necessitates an explosion. 


Kind of noticed you ignored that bit.



> because you are just trying to make huge numbers appear... with no other feats comming close (hell every other feat put together doesn't come close).. therefor thinking that there is more to a random statement seems much better then dumbly calcing something..


This argument is so flimsy, it borderlines on a strawman and reveals the tranparency of your stance along with your inability to understand context. Again, Irony.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Mar 9, 2015)

Regicide said:


> I didn't imply that you did?
> 
> You know what, fuck it.



I wasn't saying that, I was expressing my surprise that even to the basic level I lack knowledge on Bleach as it seems .


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## Iwandesu (Mar 9, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> It seems this thread just became Yamamoto Vs Hashirama... what about if Ichibei and Yamamoto somehow manage to avoid Hashirama mokuton?


ichibei is actually the best beat of bleach team 
as far as he dodges hashirama first wood release he can easily one shot both mad and hashi with his hax.
if he does get killed bleach only hope is yamamoto suicide attack which while very unlikely to be used, it will kill both of nardo team members assuming the upgrade being argued is legit.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 9, 2015)

Well, with these new  SS size, yamamoto could likely solo with north.


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## Aphelion (Mar 9, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> I wasn't saying that, I was expressing my surprise that even to the basic level I lack knowledge on Bleach as it seems .


responding to most things with "I don't fucking know x" is generally going to make you come across as defensive.  just saying


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 9, 2015)

Regicide said:


> I'll leave Maples to argue about the size of Soul Society.
> 
> But that aside, is there a reason we can't use the radiation calculator for Yama's bankai? We have both a temperature and a surface area.



With radiant energy...

*Spoiler*: __ 




Q = e*constant*area*T^4
Not sure how to get the area so i'll just assume a sphere with 1m radius since it fully engulfs yamamoto.
Q = .98*5.67e-8*12.57*(15000000+273.15)^4
Q = 8.5 TT/s
Top kek


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## Sablés (Mar 9, 2015)

could you do the same for his shikai? 

you can find the temp on him turning driscoll into bone in an instant


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## Regicide (Mar 9, 2015)

Human beings have a surface area of about 2 m^2.

That surface area gives roughly just over a teraton.


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## Regicide (Mar 9, 2015)

Liquid said:


> could you do the same for his shikai?
> 
> you can find the temp on him turning driscoll into bone in an instant


Not sure this would be anything impressive.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 9, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Human beings have a surface area of about 2 m^2.
> 
> That surface area gives roughly just over a teraton.



Need to use the flame's surface area i think.

@stables
Nothing impressive, however he did say that all the energy is stored in the tip of its blade.
I think it's safe to say he could output a decent percentage of it's overall power with his east /north.


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## Regicide (Mar 9, 2015)

The flame's surface area is roughly the same as Yama's surface area.

Maybe a bit more, but probably doesn't make that significant of a difference.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 9, 2015)

Honestly, it changes its shape from what i can remember.
From haschwaldt's eyes, it's cylindrical or something in shape,


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 9, 2015)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> With radiant energy...
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...





Regicide said:


> Human beings have a surface area of about 2 m^2.
> 
> That surface area gives roughly just over a teraton.





Am I reading this right?  *That* is the energy attained from Zanjitsu Gokui if a radiation calculator is used?


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## Regicide (Mar 9, 2015)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Honestly, it changes its shape from what i can remember.
> From haschwaldt's eyes, it's cylindrical or something in shape,


Works well enough as an approximation.

Actually, since the flames can't actually be seen and the ones we see are just Yama creating a visual reference for convenience sake, I don't think we can actually get too specific with shit.


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## Hamaru (Mar 9, 2015)

Current Ichigo's black getsu should be around the same level of power if not greater than Kenpachi's single shikai slash, and it didn't move Bach one bit, yet we seen Ichibei toss Bach around with his casual hits. That says a lot for his raw strength on top of his speed and Haxx.


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 10, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Works well enough as an approximation.
> 
> Actually, since the flames can't actually be seen and the ones we see are just Yama creating a visual reference for convenience sake, I don't think we can actually get too specific with shit.



As Haschwalth pointed out, flames cannot appear at such high temperatures, and it is reiatsu that takes the appearance of flames.



Hamaru said:


> Current Ichigo's black getsu should be around the same level of power if not greater than Kenpachi's single shikai slash, and it didn't move Bach one bit, yet we seen Ichibei toss Bach around with his casual hits. That says a lot for his raw strength on top of his speed and Haxx.



-_-

Avatars like yours are why I once elected to not have the site show people's Avatars on my screen.

In case you've forgotten, the Yhwach that Ichibei was fighting did not activate "The Almighty" until the last stage of the fight.  Once Yhwach activated "The Almighty", a distinct difference in power became evident between the two - he blew apart Ichibei with a blast of reiatsu from his outstretched hand, and that was after no-selling the attack that would have "crushed down to nothing" anyone else.

Given what "The Almighty" is capable of, of course the Getsuga wouldn't have had an effect - because Yhwach "knows" that attack, it cannot harm him.


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## LazyWaka (Mar 10, 2015)

Just going to throw this out their, Ichibies statement doesn't mean anything for SS since that was in the Royal Realm, which is regarded as a separate place from SS.


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## Sablés (Mar 10, 2015)

No the SK realm is literally just high up in the sky.


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## Hamaru (Mar 10, 2015)

Catalyst75 said:


> As Haschwalth pointed out, flames cannot appear at such high temperatures, and it is reiatsu that takes the appearance of flames.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Some people live my set, some don't, doesn't matter, I do. 

The Almighty was said to give Bach precog and the ability to cancel out other abilities. it wasn't said to make him physically stronger at all.


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## LazyWaka (Mar 10, 2015)

Liquid said:


> No the SK realm is literally just high up in the sky.



But is still separate from it. 

It's also a pretty safe bet that Unohana wasn't factoring in the RR when making that statement seeing as breaking through the barrier separating the 2 is considered impossible even for people with comparable or greater power than him (juha had to wait for them to remove it for Ichigo/Transcendant level Aizen needed a special Key etc.)


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## LazyWaka (Mar 10, 2015)

Hamaru said:


> The Almighty was said to give Bach precog and the ability to cancel out other abilities. it wasn't said to make him physically stronger at all.



He went from matching Ichibei to blitzfucking him in an instant after activating it. Their was a clear increase.


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## Sablés (Mar 10, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> But is still separate from it.
> 
> It's also a pretty safe bet that Unohana wasn't factoring in the RR when making that statement seeing as breaking through the barrier separating the 2 is considered impossible even for people with comparable or greater power than him (juha had to wait for them to remove it for Ichigo.)



Why on Earth would that affect the distance? It's not in a separate the dimension


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 10, 2015)

I blame Kubo for this mess.


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## LazyWaka (Mar 10, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Why on Earth would that affect the distance? It's not in a separate the dimension



Because in that 4000km statement their was nothing but empty space. kinda irrelivent to count that towards the overall landmass size of SS. Unless we were suppose to be left under the impression that the statement meant that he was fucking up that whole dimension. In which case, i'm sorta stumped.

It also sorta comes off as excessive (to an extent). Like looking at a statement saying "this attack will destroy the entire USA" and than tacking on an extra thousand kilometers because "Hawaii is part of the USA to and it's way over here."

the statement does make it impressive, but the vagueness of the range is not doing it any favors (which is why we ultimately just used the Rukangai as a low end.)


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## Sablés (Mar 10, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> Because in that 4000km statement their was nothing but empty space. kinda irrelivent to count that towards the overall landmass size of SS. Unless we were suppose to be left under the impression that the statement meant that he was fucking up that whole dimension. In which case, i'm sorta stumped.
> 
> It also sorta comes off as excessive (to an extent). Like looking at a statement saying "this attack will destroy the entire USA" and than tacking on an extra thousand kilometers because "Hawaii is part of the USA to and it's way over here."
> 
> the statement does make it impressive, but the vagueness of the range is not doing it any favors (which is why we ultimately just used the Rukangai as a low end.)



Waka stahp, you're making this confusing.

the statement is directly related to the rr, yes however the two are considered to exist in the same world. the space that surrounds the palace is just ss' sky. mind you, ss shares the same cosmology as the real world. are you assuming that the landmass just cuts off while the atmosphere continues?


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## LazyWaka (Mar 10, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Waka stahp, you're making this confusing.
> 
> the statement is directly related to the rr, yes however the two are considered to exist in the same world. the space that surrounds the palace is just ss' sky. mind you, ss shares the same cosmology as the real world. are you assuming that the landmass just cuts off while the atmosphere continues?



Pretty sure the massive distance between the Sereitei and the RR while still somehow being in the same atmosphere requires a very different cosmology.

Unless  the "world" that the Rukongai is sitting on is so massive that it can have an atmosphere that reaches out that far, in which case, I am once again stumped. 

But whatever. The whole scenario is just one big headache for me.


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## Regicide (Mar 10, 2015)

To be fair, fictional verses having wonky atmospheres isn't uncommon. Chaos brings it up with Final Fantasy a lot.

Not gonna argue about the size, just pointing that out.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 10, 2015)

Regicide said:


> To be fair, fictional verses having wonky atmospheres isn't uncommon. Chaos brings it up with Final Fantasy a lot.
> 
> Not gonna argue about the size, just pointing that out.



Yeah, FFVI is the worst offender of having wonky atmospheres of any fiction I've ever seen

Just lifting the floating continent into the sky, just to where the crust bottom barely breeches the crust top?

You should have people suffocating from lack of actual breathable air for those moving around on it

They proceed to raise it into the sky above our Exosphere


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 10, 2015)

FFVI is also the offender of being the best in the series. So who cares?


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 10, 2015)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> FFVI is also the offender of being the best in the series. So who cares?



True (well, its in my top 5), was just fleshing out Regicide's post for him though


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 10, 2015)

Liquid said:


> using Earth's radius as a default size would push it to around double digit petatons but I understand there are some reservations on that front.
> 
> that said, there is at the very least a 4000km radius in soul society as indirectly stated by Ichibei which would place it at single digit petatons
> 
> ...





where are you getting the 4000km thing from


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## Shunssj (Mar 10, 2015)

Nightbringer said:


> where are you getting the 4000km thing from



from his 1,000ri slap? maybe


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 10, 2015)

I...

guess?


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## Sablés (Mar 10, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> Pretty sure the massive distance between the Sereitei and the RR while still somehow being in the same atmosphere requires a very different cosmology.
> 
> Unless  the "world" that the Rukongai is sitting on is so massive that it can have an atmosphere that reaches out that far, in which case, I am once again stumped.
> 
> But whatever. The whole scenario is just one big headache for me.



I'm having an incredibly difficult time picturing the ramifications of what you're suggesting, is all. 

what i was referring to when mentioning cosmology is that SS isn't an isolated dimension to itself, there are stars and alike surrounding as well thus what exactly is underneath once the landmass stops and the atmosphere stretches on?


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## AgentAAA (Mar 10, 2015)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> FFVI is also the offender of being the best in the series. So who cares?



no argument here


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 10, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> Pretty sure the massive distance between the Sereitei and the RR while still somehow being in the same atmosphere requires a very different cosmology.
> 
> Unless  the "world" that the Rukongai is sitting on is so massive that it can have an atmosphere that reaches out that far, in which case, I am once again stumped.
> 
> But whatever. The whole scenario is just one big headache for me.



Definitely.  The other question that arises is how does this cosmology balance out with the Living World.  

We know that Hueco Mundo has a permanent crescent moon in the sky, but that is it.  It is a world of eternal night, with no stars to speak of, yet the moon still reflects light from some source.

In the case of Soul Society, I just double-checked and it does have a moon, as seen in the Soul Society.  It was also a crescent moon when we saw it.  

In the case of the Soul King Palace, it is stated to be located in a space removed from the Soul Society.  It is the seventy-two barriers that lead the way to and guard the Soul King Palace from intrusion.  How this relates to Soul Society's cosmology (which has a moon) is something of a mystery still.

On of the only other possibilities is that the Soul Society is a round world, like the Living World, but the Muken was also said to be almost endlessly broad and completely closed off.  That is why a Key into Muken is required, and why Kyoraku was made to seal the key into his heart - his death would permanently seal off Muken from the outside.  That said, even the Muken felt the effects of the Soul King's death.

Either way, regardless of how big the Soul Society actually is, Zanka no Tachi destroying the whole of Soul Society would still be an incredible feat.


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