# SPOILERS! Full-power Katsuyu vs Kurama



## Luftwaffles (Oct 8, 2013)

Location: VotE
Distance: 100 meters
Knowledge: None
Mindset: IC
Restrictions: None

Who wins? 10/10th Katsuyu


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 8, 2013)

We've no idea how big Katsuyu actually is and size doesn't help her combat abilities. She has pretty much nothing capable of killing Kurama.


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## Rocky (Oct 8, 2013)

Bijuudama kills it.


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## P3IN (Oct 8, 2013)

Kurama kills it with fire


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 8, 2013)

Katsuyu continues spitting acid on Kurama until the end of time.


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## Azula (Oct 8, 2013)

standard bijuu dama kills her


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 8, 2013)

Just like that standard CST killed .0000000000000000000001% of her- while the .0000000000000000000001% was split into 100,000 clones protecting the flesh of humans 

[1]


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## LostSelf (Oct 8, 2013)

Don't contradict Azula. She doesn't have good sense of humor and can kill you with blue fire.

OT: Kurama roas. Katsuyu dessumons herself.


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 8, 2013)

It is my job to eradicate fanboys, LostSelf. 

However crispy my future may become, Katsuya's feats must be respected!


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## Jak N Blak (Oct 8, 2013)

Kurama eats her out.


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## Turrin (Oct 8, 2013)

Katsuya would probably win. I mean I can't even imagine how much acid she could produce at her full size.


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## Bonly (Oct 8, 2013)

As the Great Katsuyu-Sama is the Itachi of summonings, she does whaty she does best and solo's :blindkatsuyu.


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## Rocky (Oct 8, 2013)

Turrin said:


> Katsuya would probably win. I mean I can't even imagine how much acid she could produce at her full size.




I _really_ hope you're joking.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 8, 2013)

Katsuyu fills the entire battlefield with acid. Kyuubi melts in a pool of acid big enough to drown Juubi.

Dat Katsuyu


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## Psp123789 (Oct 8, 2013)

The invincible katsuya wins. At full power she could beat the juubi and BSM naruto together. Kurama doesn't stand a chance.


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## ueharakk (Oct 8, 2013)

Serious answer to the thread:
couple of bijuudamas end her.

Acid won't do anything to 100% Kurama if Utakata's acid doesn't do anything to BM Naruto.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 8, 2013)

Serious answer to this thread:

Katsuya rolls over him.


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## xXHancockXx (Oct 8, 2013)

She just needs to sit or lie on Kurama. That?d be enough to win the battle. Dat Katsuyu.


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## Kyu (Oct 8, 2013)

She swallows him. He nuts nukes inside her. 

GG.


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## Kai (Oct 8, 2013)

The only animal or creature more powerful than Kurama is none other than the Juubi itself. No other beast comes close to the fox's power.


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## Turrin (Oct 8, 2013)

Rocky said:


> I _really_ hope you're joking.


I'm not joking at all. Katsuya from her feats and the implied size of her full body would give Kyuubi the fight of his life and probably even win. I mean both Sakura + Tsunade with Byakugo stored chakra can only summon 1/10th of this entity. Kishi is obviously portraying full sized Katsuya as one of the most powerful things on the planet.


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## Kai (Oct 8, 2013)

Turrin said:


> I'm not joking at all. Katsuya from her feats and the implied size of her full body would give Kyuubi the fight of his life and probably even win. I mean both Sakura + Tsunade with Byakugo stored chakra can only summon 1/10th of this entity. Kishi is obviously portraying full sized Katsuya as one of the most powerful things on the planet.


Kishi isn't portraying anything of that nature.

It is you scaling it up subjectively to match what you believe.


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## Rocky (Oct 8, 2013)

Turrin said:


> I'm not joking at all. Katsuya from her feats and the implied size of her full body would give Kyuubi the fight of his life and probably even win. I mean both Sakura + Tsunade with Byakugo stored chakra can only summon 1/10th of this entity. Kishi is obviously portraying full sized Katsuya as one of the most powerful things on the planet.




Good lord. 

Kishmoto hasn't portrayed Katsuyu as anything close to "powerful". She's a very minor factor in the main storyline, whereas Kurama is the main character's best buddy and major power source. Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki's most powerful creation has long been portrayed as an apocalyptic demon that was too dangerous to even exist freely. 

I don't care how big Katusyu gets. It isn't going to damage one who walked through Sage Naruto's onslaught of devastating Ninjutsu at half of his strength. Nor is Katsuyu lasting more than a few seconds against an entity capable of eradicating mountains ranges likewise at 50% after being drained of the majority of its Chakra.


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## Luftwaffles (Oct 8, 2013)

Turrin v. Rocky


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## Turrin (Oct 8, 2013)

Kai said:


> Kishi isn't portraying anything of that nature.
> 
> It is you scaling it up subjectively to match what you believe.


The moment Kishi told us roughly 1/120th of Katsyua, has been the Katsuya that's been equivalent to Toad and Snake Boss, he was surely portraying Katsuya as one of the strongest entities in the Naruto world. 

Kishi is the one who provided the scale, by stating that the Katsuya Tsunade + Sakura summoned this chapter is 1/10th Katsuya's true size. 

And lol at me matching anything to what I believe. I never would have dreamed off the fact that Boss-Sized Katsuya was roughly 1/20th the size of True Katsuya until I read the chapter this morning. So I literally have no stake in this whatsoever or preformed beliefs, prior to this chapter



Rocky said:


> Good lord.
> 
> Kishmoto hasn't portrayed Katsuyu as anything close to "powerful". She's a very minor factor in the main storyline, whereas Kurama is the main character's best buddy and major power source. Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki's most powerful creation has long been portrayed as an apocalyptic demon that was too dangerous to even exist freely.
> 
> I don't care how big Katusyu gets. It isn't going to damage one who walked through Sage Naruto's onslaught of devastating Ninjutsu at half of his strength. Nor is Katsuyu lasting more than a few seconds against an entity capable of eradicating mountains ranges likewise at 50% after being drained of the majority of its Chakra.


Katsuya was always portrayed as Boss Summon level, which is powerful. Is it anywhere near Kurama's level, of course not. But now we are being told Boss-Sized Katsuya is 1/20th of normal Katsuya. So do I think a Katsuya that is 20x Boss Katsuya could take on Kurama, yeah why not?

Sage Naruto's attacks are pathetic in comparison to the amount of Acid 20x Boss Katsuya can generate or hell even 20x Boss Katsuya's Physical attacks would make SM Naruto look like nothing in comparison. As for destroying mountain ranges. 1/10th Katsuya was at least half the height of God Tree Root, which in turn dwarfs smaller mountains and is the size of the massive mountains surrounding the battlefield:
the manga showed the explosion taking up a large amount of area in the crater and barrier.
the manga showed the explosion taking up a large amount of area in the crater and barrier.

That means 2/10 Katsuya should be massive mountain sized. 4/10ths double, 6/10th triple, etc.. the size of said massive mountains.  By the time we get to full size Katsuya were looking at an entity that is 5x the size of those massive mountains. Katsuya would destroy mountains by simply moving, she wouldn't even nee to use an attack, they would just crumble beneath her.


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## Rocky (Oct 8, 2013)

I watched your video, Turrin, in order to educate myself on this supposed omnipotent slug. Larger than the Juubi?



Bee's roughly the same size as its finger, and would fit comfortably in its palm. It would take far more than twenty Hachibi's to reach the size of the Ten-Tails...especially in its larger second stage. If we assume your scaling is somewhat correct, Katusyu the Boss Summon is around the size of Bee, so multiply her size by twenty and we get Full Power Katsuyu, who still wouldn't be much to the Juubi.


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## Trojan (Oct 8, 2013)

Not sure if it's just me, but Kurama (half of him) seems to be an ant if compared to Katuyu
first we saw her


she almost filled the place in between

then

Kurama is nothing in comparison with her. Now if we made Katsuyu 10 times bigger
Kurama will be ABSOLUTELY nothing. I really don't see how a little tiny TBB will have any effect on her!! 

but, I could be wrong. @.@


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## Kai (Oct 8, 2013)

Turrin said:


> The moment Kishi told us roughly 1/120th of Katsyua, has been the Katsuya that's been equivalent to Toad and Snake Boss, he was surely portraying Katsuya as one of the strongest entities in the Naruto world.
> 
> Kishi is the one who provided the scale, by stating that the Katsuya Tsunade + Sakura summoned this chapter is 1/10th Katsuya's true size.
> 
> And lol at me matching anything to what I believe. I never would have dreamed off the fact that Boss-Sized Katsuya was roughly 1/20th the size of True Katsuya until I read the chapter this morning. So I literally have no stake in this whatsoever or preformed beliefs, prior to this chapter


You didn't subjectively scale Katsuyu's size, you subjectively scaled Katsuyu's power based on its size that is nowhere in line with how the summon was portrayed, even if we exclusively talk about this morning's chapter.

You have an upside down interpretation of what was revealed.


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## Turrin (Oct 8, 2013)

Rocky said:


> I watched your video, Turrin, in order to educate myself on this supposed omnipotent slug. Larger than the Juubi?
> 
> 
> 
> Bee's roughly the same size as its finger, and would fit comfortably in its palm. It would take far more than twenty Hachibi's to reach the size of the Ten-Tails...especially in its larger second stage. If we assume your scaling is somewhat correct, Katusyu the Boss Summon is around the size of Bee, so multiply her size by twenty and we get Full Power Katsuyu, who still wouldn't be much to the Juubi.


The video is suppose to be taken as tongue and cheek (refering to the omnipotent part), and a purely reactionary piece w/o me actually talking exact scaling. Of course I don't think Katsuya will be large than Juubi. For fucks sake the God Tree is visible from outer space. I was exaggerating for dramatic effect in the video.

Anyway the Juubi has nothing to do with what we were discussing so why go there instead of addressing my actual point



Kai said:


> You didn't subjectively scale Katsuyu's size, you subjectively scaled Katsuyu's power based on its size that is nowhere in line with how the summon was portrayed, even if we exclusively talk about this morning's chapter.
> 
> You have an upside down interpretation of what was revealed.


Kai throughout the entire manga size has been one of the common determining factors of the strength of a summon. So full size Katsuya being x20 (or more) the size of Boss Summons should say a great deal about Full Sized Katsuya's strength. Also from how Katsuya's abilities work; it's body splitting we know that with that level of size it can generate an absolutely insane to think about amount of acid, which also says something about full size Katsuya's strength. However never did I say Katsuya was x20 (or more) the strength of Boss Sized Katsuya, that's something you made up on your own accord. All I said is that given Kishi's portrayal Full size Katsuya should be one of the strongest entities living in the Naruto world.


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## Joakim3 (Oct 8, 2013)

Kurama fires _Super Bijudama_ and the match ends 



Good luck surviving a multi teraton 100km+ wide Bijudama explosion


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## Rocky (Oct 8, 2013)

Turrin said:


> That means 2/10 Katsuya should be massive mountain sized. 4/10ths double, 6/10th triple, etc.. the size of said massive mountains.  By the time we get to full size Katsuya were looking at an entity that is 5x the size of those massive mountains. Katsuya would destroy mountains by simply moving, she wouldn't even nee to use an attack, they would just crumble beneath her.




So, basically the size of the Shin Sūsenju statue that dwarfs mountains while sitting down. Kurama fought that. He was armored, but the God of Shinobi's Senpou: Mokuton is much much much much _*much*_ more powerful & durable than any form of Katsuyu.

Kurama has techniques in the mountain range scale with his Chakra completely ripped from him. Restore Kurama's Chakra back & then double that firepower, and watch Katusyu get _ob?lit?er?a?ted. _


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## Trojan (Oct 8, 2013)

Turrin said:


> *Kai throughout the entire manga size has been one of the common determining factors of the strength of a summon*. So full size Katsuya being x20 (or more) the size of Boss Summons should say a great deal about Full Sized Katsuya's strength. Also from how Katsuya's abilities work; it's body splitting we know that with that level of size it can generate an absolutely insane to think about amount of acid, which also says something about full size Katsuya's strength. However never did I say Katsuya was x20 (or more) the strength of Boss Sized Katsuya, that's something you made up on your own accord. All I said is that given Kishi's portrayal Full size Katsuya should be one of the strongest entities living in the Naruto world.



you mean like PS, and Hashi's Buddha?


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## Kai (Oct 8, 2013)

Turrin said:


> Kai throughout the entire manga size has been one of the common determining factors of the strength of a summon. So full size Katsuya being x20 (or more) the size of Boss Summons should say a great deal about Full Sized Katsuya's strength. Also from how Katsuya's abilities work; it's body splitting we know that with that level of size it can generate an absolutely insane to think about amount of acid, which also says something about full size Katsuya's strength. *However never did I say Katsuya was x20 (or more) the strength of Boss Sized Katsuya, that's something you made up on your own accord. All I said is that given Kishi's portrayal Full size Katsuya should be one of the strongest entities living in the Naruto world.*


You stated that Katsuyu would give full Kurama the fight of his life and probably even win. I've expressed no contest with the idea that Katsuyu emerges as one of the strongest creatures in the manga — merely the utter bizarre idea and reasoning that she can, in any way, triumph Kurama in a fight.

Furthermore, and besides the point, based on Tsunade's description of summoning 1/10 with "two Byakugo users", the full entity of Katsuyu would never be able to appear on the field in the first place.


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## Trojan (Oct 8, 2013)

Rocky said:


> So, basically the size of the Shin Sūsenju statue that dwarfs mountains while sitting down. Kurama fought that. He was armored, but the God of Shinobi's Senpou: Mokuton is much much much much _*much*_ more powerful than any form a Katsuyu will ever approach.
> [/I]



shouldn't Katsuyu be a Sage as well? Since it's she who teach it there in her forest. 
I honestly think it was she who taught SM to Hashirama in the first place, so I doubt about
all that "much" you have there.


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## Rocky (Oct 8, 2013)

Elia said:


> shouldn't Katsuyu be a Sage as well? Since it's she who teach it their.
> I honestly think it was she who taught SM to Hashirama in the first place, so I doubt about
> all that "much" you have there.




......I'm not conceding that Katsuyu is a Sage. Even if she was, please don't make me have to explain to you why Hashirama is stronger than an irrelevant Boss slug.


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## ueharakk (Oct 8, 2013)

katsuya was probably a normal slug that accidentally fed on the fruit of the god tree.


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## Turrin (Oct 8, 2013)

Kai said:


> You stated that Katsuyu would give full Kurama the fight of his life and probably even win. I've expressed no contest with the idea that Katsuyu emerges as one of the strongest creatures in the manga — merely the utter bizarre idea and reasoning that she can, in any way, triumph Kurama in a fight.


I don't see why it's so bizarre. Her size should warrant her and insane amount of force behind her blows, insane durability, great difficult to pin down due to splitting, and she should be able to generate an insane amount of Acid. I don't see why it's hard to imagine Kurama losing to something like that. It's not like i'm saying this would be an easy victory Katsuya by any means or that Kurama has no chance of winning. Nor am I saying that I don't respect someone holding the opinion that Kurama would win. I'm just giving my opinion based on the vibe the manga is giving me and what Full Body Katsuya should be capable of given the size scaling that Kishimoto had stated in this chapter.

Edit: And like Ella says the possibility that Katsuya can use Senjutsu.

I mean really this is a huge degree of speculation no matter whether you think Kurama or Full Sized Katsuya could win, or even the amount of difficulty. Since we've never even seen Full Sized Katsuya yet and really haven't even seen Full Sized Kurama go all out on his own (I.E. w/o Susano'o armor).



> Furthermore, and besides the point, based on Tsunade's description of summoning 1/10 with "two Byakugo users", the full entity of Katsuyu would never be able to appear on the field in the first place.


For the purpose of this thread the OP has stipulated that Katsuya is Full Sized, so why it is the point of noting this.

Though I will say that I disagree with you that Full Sized could never appear on a battlefield. I mean Sakura or Tsunade given enough prep should eventually be able to summon the Full Size Katsuya, even if took them days of summoning 1 Boss Sized Katsuya at a time, with enough prep they could produce it.

Additionally It seems strange to me that Kishi would bring up this being only 1/10th of Katsuya's full size if we weren't going to see a Full Sized Katsuya summoned out.. Whether this is through Hashirama being able to summon Katsuya's Full Size and being a slug contractor. Or Sakura + Tsunade get more kyuubi-chakra. Or whatever Idk, but it seems more likely to me than not that we'll be seeing Full Size Katsuya summoned at some point.



Rocky said:


> So, basically the size of the Shin Sūsenju statue that dwarfs mountains while sitting down. Kurama fought that. He was armored, but the God of Shinobi's Senpou: Mokuton is much much much much _*much*_ more powerful & durable than any form of Katsuyu.
> 
> Kurama has techniques in the mountain range scale with his Chakra completely ripped from him. Restore Kurama's Chakra back & then double that firepower, and watch Katusyu get _ob?lit?er?a?ted. _


I think your underrating P-Susano'o's contribution to kyuubi in that exchange.

I also wouldn't be 100% confident making all the much claims that you have there. Especially because as Ella notes it's possible Katsuya can use Senjutsu.


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## FlamingRain (Oct 8, 2013)

If Gamakichi can use Senjutsu then Katsuyu can.

There are three Sage Mode locations and she is the inhabitant of the last one, she pretty much has to be the Sage.



Kai said:


> Furthermore, and besides the point, based on Tsunade's description of summoning 1/10 with "two Byakugo users", the full entity of Katsuyu would never be able to appear on the field in the first place.



Unless the battlefield was Shikkotsurin ?


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## Rocky (Oct 8, 2013)

Turrin said:


> I think your underrating P-Susano'o's contribution to kyuubi in that exchange.




Perfect Susano'o was attached to Kurama to protect it from damage, and the swords were placed inside the Bijuudama to prevent Hashirama from catching them. 

Perfect Susano'o didn't contribute much offensively, but rather allowed Kurama to survive Chōjō Kebutsu without damage. It is primarily a defensive Jutsu. The swords probably helped in a way, but you can see there isn't much difference in the power of Normal Bijuudama and Sword Bijuudama.



> I also wouldn't be 100% confident making all the much claims that you have there. Especially because as Ella notes it's possible Katsuya can use Senjutsu.




Which claims? I swear to god, *please* tell me you aren't comparing Katsuyu to the pinnacle of Hashirama's might based on unsupported Senjutsu claims.


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## LostSelf (Oct 9, 2013)

Run! Kyuubi is attacking the village!

Minato: Don't worry, i will defeat the Bijuu sacrificing myself!

Hiruzen: Don't be dumb Minato. Go call Tsunade! We need Katsuyu.

Do the same example with the invasion of Pain, or with Tobi threatening the 5 kages with the bijuus he had captured. Fear? That's for people without Katsuyu.

.


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## Rocky (Oct 9, 2013)

BD Katusyu is rapidly escalating to levels I preciously thought were not possible. Itachi was pretty sad, but implications on Katsuyu being stronger than Hashirama .......


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## FlamingRain (Oct 9, 2013)

I'm pretty sure the only implication was that the word "much" may not need to be used so many times when regarding durability.

_Nobody_ implied Katsuyu > Hashirama.


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## Rocky (Oct 9, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> I'm pretty sure the only implication was that the word "much" may not need to be used so many times when regarding durability.
> 
> _Nobody_ implied Katsuyu > Hashirama.




Which is equally absurd as Katsuyu is not durable. At all. It's just annoying to kill because it can split.

And due to his ambiguous wording, neither you nor me know if Turrin was speaking of durability, or power. Either way, I'm still shocked.


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## FlamingRain (Oct 9, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Which is equally absurd as Katsuyu is not durable. At all. It's just annoying to kill because it can split.



It couldn't have cushioned CST at 1/20000th of its size if it weren't durable. Splitting had absolutely zilch to do with that.


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## Rocky (Oct 9, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> It couldn't have cushioned CST at 1/20000th of its size if it weren't durable. Splitting had absolutely zilch to do with that.




It's a slug....it's squishy.  It's like the Majin Buu of Naruto.


Plus it was massively powered by Tsunade's medical Ninjutsu.


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## FlamingRain (Oct 9, 2013)

Rocky said:


> It's a slug....it's squishy.  It's like the Majin Buu of Naruto.



Majin Buu is still considered 'durable'.



> Plus it was massively powered by Tsunade's medical Ninjutsu.



I don't see what this has to do with durability. I always thought that she poured out all of her chakra into it in order to heal the injuries of the villagers, such as Shika's broken leg, especially considering her answer to Naruto before the Madara fight.


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## Rocky (Oct 9, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Majin Buu is still considered 'durable'.




In comparison to the rest of the verse, not really. Majin Buu's limbs were blasted off (or he was blasted to pieces) multiple times, he can just regenerate. I remember bullets even piercing Super Buu at one point, but I never read the Manga so I can't differentiate between canon & filler. 





> I don't see what this has to do with durability. I always thought that she poured out all of her chakra into it in order to heal the injuries of the villagers, such as Shika's broken leg, especially considering her answer to Naruto before the Madara fight.




I interpreted it as Tsunade accelerating Katsuyu's abilities with her Chakra, thus allowing the slug to heal the villagers and herself at a quicker rate.


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## The World (Oct 9, 2013)

Katsuya is most likely larger than island turtle and Manda V2 combined

Largest entity in the Naruto world bar the Juubi and Juubi tree


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## Turrin (Oct 9, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Perfect Susano'o was attached to Kurama to protect it from damage, and the swords were placed inside the Bijuudama to prevent Hashirama from catching them.
> .


Those are major contributions. W/o that Buddha would have walked all over Kurama. I mean before Kyuubi + P Susano'o were used together Hashirama seemed like he was handling himself fine against Kurama in Base. 



> Perfect Susano'o didn't contribute much offensively, but rather allowed Kurama to survive Chōjō Kebutsu without damage. It is primarily a defensive Jutsu. The swords probably helped in a way, but you can see there isn't much difference in the power of Normal Bijuudama and Sword Bijuudama.


Sword Bijuu Dama went through 5 Roshomon and still made a blast visible from the other side of the ocean. That seems like way greater defensive power than the panel you posted of Kurama's other Bijuu bomb. We really don't know enough about the Kyuubi-Susano'o fusion to say that it doesn't boost other powers of the fusion



> Which claims? I swear to god, please tell me you aren't comparing Katsuyu to the pinnacle of Hashirama's might based on unsupported Senjutsu claims.


.
I'm not comparing the two at all. I'm just saying that I personally wouldn't make the claim that it's 100% certain Buddha >>> Katsuya. When Full Sized Katsuya has so much potential through it's indicated size and the possibility of it having Senjutsu. Does that mean I wouldn't say that it's 98% certain that Buddha >> Katsuya, no lol, because at things stand it's hard to imagine Katsuya coming anywhere near SM Hashirama controlling Buddha. But i'm never want to say i'm 100% certain when there is so little know about one entity (in this case Katsuya), except that it should be incredibly strong.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 9, 2013)

Gamabunta fought the 9 tails.  10 Gamabuntas could probably win.

Katsuya could probably fight Kurama.  10 Katsuyas could probably win.  

Basing this off the fact that Gamabunta didn't get oneshotted by the Kyuubi, or the one tails, and could put up a fight against them both, I'd have to say the fox and bijuu's in general aren't several magnitudes of power outside of the boss summons.  So any of them x10+ could probably win.



> Nobody implied Katsuyu > Hashirama.



We're going to find out that Katsuya was Hashirama's summon, and he was the only ninja who could ever summon 100% of her.



> You didn't subjectively scale Katsuyu's size, you subjectively scaled Katsuyu's power based on its size that is nowhere in line with how the summon was portrayed, even if we exclusively talk about this morning's chapter.



Actually, if you remember, the pocket sized Katsuya died by the tree absorbing them.

But now that they have 10% Katsuya, she's happily melting all over that death tree everyone is fighting off.  So she may actually get a power scale boost, instead of just a size increase.  Though I hope not because this is all a very silly.

Oh and yeah, since she's more or less been confirmed to be the only slug in the forest, and every sage spot has an animal summon that's a sage, Katsuya is probably a sage of some sort.

Which sucks, because I wanted a Ma and Pa slug.


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## FlamingRain (Oct 9, 2013)

Rocky said:


> In comparison to the rest of the verse, not really. Majin Buu's limbs were blasted off (or he was blasted to pieces) multiple times, he can just regenerate. I remember bullets even piercing Super Buu at one point, but I never read the Manga so I can't differentiate between canon & filler.



The blasts that did that to Buu could have easily eradicated the vast majority of the rest of the verse, so I don't see how this can imply Buu really isn't durable.

But let's define durability: _"the ability to withstand wear, pressure, or damage"_.

It isn't 'hardness', and if village busting _CST_ was unable to 1. split Katsuyu further (if it had, it would have exposed the villagers within her and killed them) or 2. turn her to paste (again, that couldn't cushion very well and would have led to the death of said villagers) then there is a lot of resistance in that slug's body.

If put things into perspective where she isn't split up- several thousands of times larger and with more of the same substance than what withstood _CST_. . .Yeah. . . . .

Though, explosions tend to blast things apart, which Katsuyu doesn't mind, so. . .does this matter? Kurama blasts her to tiny pieces and she puts herself back together? 



> I interpreted it as Tsunade accelerating Katsuyu's abilities with her Chakra, thus allowing the slug to heal the villagers and herself at a quicker rate.







The Pirate on Wheels said:


> We're going to find out that Katsuya was Hashirama's summon, and he was the only ninja who could ever summon 100% of her.


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## Rocky (Oct 9, 2013)

Turrin said:


> Those are major contributions. W/o that Buddha would have walked all over Kurama. I mean before Kyuubi + P Susano'o were used together Hashirama seemed like he was handling himself fine against Kurama in Base.




I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make.

Kurama can match Shin Sūsenju's Chōjō Kebutsu point for point with Bijuudama. Without Perfect Susano'o, Kurama would've lost yes, but Katsuyu doesn't compare to Hashirama's statue in combat ability. It doesn't come close as of now.




> Sword Bijuu Dama went through 5 Roshomon and still made a blast visible from the other side of the ocean. That seems like way greater defensive power than the panel you posted of Kurama's other Bijuu bomb. We really don't know enough about the Kyuubi-Susano'o fusion to say that it doesn't boost other powers of the fusion.




I don't really want to go into detail here as I can sense this becoming a circular point. 

What I originally sated still stands: 50% Kurama with like no Chakra created a Bijuu Bomb stronger than anything Kurama used at the VotE. Scale that up to fresh 50% Kurama, and double it to 100%, and I'm have no doubt that the Kyuubi can blow up Katsuyu, even if she's extremely large. 



> I'm not comparing the two at all. I'm just saying that I personally wouldn't make the claim that it's 100% certain Buddha >>> Katsuya. When Full Sized Katsuya has so much potential through it's indicated size and the possibility of it having Senjutsu. Does that mean I wouldn't say that it's 98% certain that Buddha >> Katsuya, no lol, because at things stand it's hard to imagine Katsuya coming anywhere near SM Hashirama controlling Buddha. But i'm never want to say i'm 100% certain when there is so little know about one entity (in this case Katsuya), except that it should be incredibly strong.




Okay, fair enough. But as of now, there's very little to support it being a threat to Hashirama, or even Kurama other than its size.



FlamingRain said:


> Though, explosions tend to blast things apart, which Katsuyu doesn't mind, so. . .does this matter? Kurama blasts her to tiny pieces and she puts herself back together?




The damage to Katsuyu will be akin to the damage Buu took from Genki Dama. Aka, complete eradication. 

If you want a Naruto example, what KN4's Bijuudama did to Orochimaru's Gates, which are no less durable than Katsuyu.


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## Legend777 (Oct 9, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Gamabunta fought the 9 tails.  10 Gamabuntas could probably win.
> 
> Basing this off the fact that Gamabunta didn't get oneshotted by the Kyuubi,



Gamabunta was summoned right on top of the Kyuubi and Bunta himself said that he can't hold it off for more than a few moments .

Not sure how anyone would call that "fighting".

On topic : Katsuyu gets slaughtered.


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## LostSelf (Oct 9, 2013)

I'm pretty sure that if Katsuyu, even 100%, was that strong as to defeat the Kyuubi, Tsunade would've called Sakura to come to the battlefield, summon katsuyu together and make the slug fight and stomp Madara.

Or Katsuyu is just as inofensive as the island turtle. But i bet the summon doesn't even come near to Kurama or any other Bijuu.  Because Regardless of her size and the acid that barely melted a rock, it's just the summon of a character that's far from being as strong and relevant as the main character versus said main character's buddy and massive powerhouse.

I don't see the summon tanking a Bijuu bomb just because it survived the same CST that a fodder anbu, who was much more exposed to the attack survived too, without _any_ injuries.


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## brain (Oct 9, 2013)

Kurama's chakra roars alone prevent acid from getting to him. I honestly see no way she can even get a draw


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## Turrin (Oct 9, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Kurama can match Shin Sūsenju's Chōjō Kebutsu point for point with Bijuudama. Without Perfect Susano'o, Kurama would've lost yes, but Katsuyu doesn't compare to Hashirama's statue in combat ability. It doesn't come close as of now.


So do your just mean quantity of Bijuu Bombs it can spit out at once? If so than I don't think we can be sure that Kurama could pull something like that off w/o Susano'o. As we don't know if Susano'o increased Kurama in other ways besides defense.



> I don't really want to go into detail here as I can sense this becoming a circular point.
> 
> What I originally sated still stands: 50% Kurama with like no Chakra created a Bijuu Bomb stronger than anything Kurama used at the VotE. Scale that up to fresh 50% Kurama, and double it to 100%, and I'm have no doubt that the Kyuubi can blow up Katsuyu, even if she's extremely large.


I'm pretty sure Kurama can kill Katsuya with his strongest attack too. I've never thought otherwise. The issue is that I also think Katsuya should be able to kill Kurama if she uses her greatest quantity of Acid. So it becomes a game who pulls out whose best card first. Kurama seems much more reluctant to use his massive Bijuu Bombs than Katsuya does to use her Acid. So that's why I favor Katsuya.



> Okay, fair enough. But as of now, there's very little to support it being a threat to Hashirama, or even Kurama other than its size.


Size and Quantity of Acid it should be able to produce. However I wouldn't say there is little to support Senjutsu, because Kabuto clearly implied Shinkotsurin is a place to learn Senjutsu, and Katsuya seems to be the only slug. Plus we have Hashirama with this third type of SM that looks slugish. So I'd say there is a mid amount of support.

As for being stronger than Hashirama I doubt we'd ever see that because if anything Full Sized Katsuya is probably Hashirama's summon.


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## Rocky (Oct 9, 2013)

Turrin said:


> So do your just mean quantity of Bijuu Bombs it can spit out at once? If so than I don't think we can be sure that Kurama could pull something like that off w/o Susano'o. As we don't know if Susano'o increased Kurama in other ways besides defense.




Yes, we don't know what Susano'o boosted. If you want to hold me to that, fine. However, note that it wouldn't make much sense that wearing Susano'o as armor magically increases the fire rate on TBB, and BM Naruto was able to use a similar spree of Bijuudama.




> I'm pretty sure Kurama can kill Katsuya with his strongest attack too. I've never thought otherwise. The issue is that I also think Katsuya should be able to kill Kurama if she uses her greatest quantity of Acid. So it becomes a game who pulls out whose best card first. Kurama seems much more reluctant to use his massive Bijuu Bombs than Katsuya does to use her Acid. So that's why I favor Katsuya.




I don't think failing in a _pool_ of acid would do anything to Kurama. Just like I think Mei's Acid Mist would fail to do anything. Katsuyu's acid doesn't have any sort of feat that suggests it would damage Kurama *at all*, and increasing the amount of acid isn't going to solve that problem.




> So I'd say there is a mid amount of support.




It isn't supported anywhere in the Manga.

It's a theory based on patterns we as_ readers_ have observed, but Kishimoto has not addressed the possibility of Sage Katusyu.


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## Ghost (Oct 9, 2013)

Bijuudama GG. Katsuyu can't do shit to Kurama.


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## Kai (Oct 9, 2013)

Turrin said:


> I don't see why it's so bizarre. Her size should warrant her and insane amount of force behind her blows, insane durability, great difficult to pin down due to splitting, and she should be able to generate an insane amount of Acid. I don't see why it's hard to imagine Kurama losing to something like that. It's not like i'm saying this would be an easy victory Katsuya by any means or that Kurama has no chance of winning. Nor am I saying that I don't respect someone holding the opinion that Kurama would win. I'm just giving my opinion based on the vibe the manga is giving me and what Full Body Katsuya should be capable of given the size scaling that Kishimoto had stated in this chapter.


Tell me why the Island Turtle doesn't come close to being one of the most powerful creatures in existence. In fact, its entire body was flipped over by Deidara's C3.

Take a moment and think about the kind of 'insane force' or firepower Kurama (and BM shroud by appropriate comparison) has had to fight against in the past decades. Katsuyu's offense has _never_ been a matter of concern. You're severely misplacing power in rather redundant areas.



			
				Turrin said:
			
		

> Edit: And like Ella says the possibility that Katsuya can use Senjutsu.


There is no more credence to that idea than there is to the idea of Manda or Gamabunta being capable of senjutsu.



			
				Turrin said:
			
		

> Though I will say that I disagree with you that Full Sized could never appear on a battlefield. I mean Sakura or Tsunade given enough prep should eventually be able to summon the Full Size Katsuya, *even if took them days of summoning 1 Boss Sized Katsuya at a time, with enough prep they could produce it.*


Any kind of action that would require preparation for a day(s) would never see the light of battle, that's why.



			
				The Pirate on Wheels said:
			
		

> Gamabunta fought the 9 tails. 10 Gamabuntas could probably win.


If this is a joke consider me trolled.

Gamabunta fought the 9 tails? He was summoned by process of Food Cart Destroyer, which is an actual technique and can't be done by Gamabunta himself.

One Shinra Tensei from Nagato's Deva Path completely shattered Bunta's bones and we see him in the aftermath of Naruto vs. Nagato still recovering from such wounds.

10 Gamabuntas would still get manhandled. Kurama possesses power that can only be balanced by *eight other bijuus.*



			
				The Pirate on Wheels said:
			
		

> Katsuya could probably fight Kurama. 10 Katsuyas could probably win.




That's quite the bold claim and leap of reasoning when Katsuyu hasn't even really fought at all?



			
				The Pirate on Wheels said:
			
		

> Basing this off the fact that Gamabunta didn't get oneshotted by the Kyuubi, or the one tails, and could put up a fight against them both,


Guess what, some fodders that attacked Kyuubi didn't get oneshotted either when Minato warped Kyuubi and its bijuudama away from the village. 

When Minato is actually considered here, Kyuubi wouldn't be able to one shot Konohomaru.



			
				The Pirate on Wheels said:
			
		

> I'd have to say the fox and bijuu's in general aren't several magnitudes of power outside of the boss summons. So any of them x10+ could probably win.


Well let's review. 

They are the personal creations of Rikudo, the nine components of the most powerful being in existence, and used by leading countries in the world for decades, perhaps even centuries as weapons of mass destruction.

Based on that, bijuus are multiple magnitudes more powerful than any boss summons.


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## Etherborn (Oct 9, 2013)

Kai said:


> The only animal or creature more powerful than Kurama is none other than the Juubi itself. No other beast comes close to the fox's power.



But the Juubi is a tree, so that makes Kurama the strongest.


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## Master Sephiroth (Oct 10, 2013)

Who gives a flying hoot if Katsuyu dwarfs Kurama in size? That doesn't matter one bit. Kurama's casual Bijudamas encompass more than a mountain. With rapid succession as he was shown to do in the clash against Shinsuusenju, he would destroy Katsuyu. 

Katsuyu's splitting ability has not shown to be able to work against encompassing concussive damage and heat. Of course it hasn't been put to the test yet, but logically it's not like splitting would do Katsuyu a lot of good if the AoE covers where she splits.


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## Veracity (Oct 10, 2013)

Lol I see some massive Katsuyuu wank and also some massive underestimation. Full powered Katsuyuu should be able to take on ANY Bjuii other then Gyuki And Kurama. Point blank period. 1/20 of the slugwas equal to other boss summonings(Gambunta putting a hell of a fight against Shukaku) and on top of this Katusyu literally has magical and hax abilities. It could split up into 20 Bunta sized slugs and just fire away with huge acid waves melting everything in the AoE. It also has mad durabilty feats( tanking massive ST at a fraction of its size and surviving Kyyubi cloak that vaporized Oro) I mean lol, has the slug ever been hurt?

Howvet Kurama HAS FAR too much hype to lose to the slug. Rapid fire BD end Katsuyu.


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## The World (Oct 10, 2013)

Shukaku wasn't even close to full power when fighting Gama


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