# Why Japanese Games Suck: American Developers Speak



## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2013)

That's the actual title of the article; don't get mad at me.


Now, before this becomes shit flinging 101:




*No.  Stop it.
*



Now, check out these hot opinions:

I'm not really all that excited for many upcoming AAA titles.  With the increase of budgets we've gotten more and more titles becoming so homogeneous we've literally gotten a American fast-food effect on the larger games:  they're all just slightly different variations of the same, very tired, very cheap thing.

I don't care where a game is made, provided it's good.  It's hard to deny that Japan is in its own video game crisis, but one of identity as much as big business, but I've certainly bought and enjoyed a great deal more games decidedly "Japanese" without even realizing it.  Shooters have becoming endemic in Western video games, and I'm curious as to how long the new platformer will reign atop everything.  

Now, fling your shit.


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## P-X 12 (Sep 1, 2013)

This probably won't end well.


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## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2013)

Why do you think I posted it?


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## Canute87 (Sep 1, 2013)

The problem i noticed with most japenese games were just fall advertising.

You see people doing these awesome moves in cutscenes only to realize that they can't actually do it in actual gameplay.


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## Patchouli (Sep 1, 2013)

I think I know one of the developers he asked.


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## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2013)

But we got those with American games, too.

E3 is basically a pit of vipers peddling lies and false promises.  And people fall for it every fucking year, so it's not really a concept or problem innate to the Japanese market.  Granted, I get what you mean (I saw Dirge of Cerberus), but I've seen a lot of cool shit in commercials I never get to do in American games, either.


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## Inuhanyou (Sep 1, 2013)

I like japanese games, and would like to see them gain prominence again. My view was that the japanese games lost prominence at the end of the last generation because companies were unwilling to deal with the rising cost of console game development in the HD era, and so went to mobile platforms just like many western devs are.

It didn't help that Microsoft's money hat push early in the generation shat out so many turds(last remnant, star ocean 4, infininte discovery, ect), it turned many japanese devs off from even trying to compete because the return was completely nonexistent for the Xbox user base and the reception they got from fans was tepid.

It didn't help that SE, the main JRPG development house known to the western community fell out of relevance for years at a time after FF13 and FF14 1.0's gigantic fuck up. 

This was the perfect storm for the homogenious shitload of western AAA development to continuously spend  more and more money to take up the player base's attention, to the point where they only like generic FPS's with explosions. It literally narrowed the minds and imaginations of gamers to try different things, that's why i think there is resistance to JRPG's now. 

If one company decided to give their game a big push in western markets with some half decent marketing and a decent budget behind it, and it was a good game, there's no reason why it would not be well received commercially, i think


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## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2013)

If Versus isn't good, I'm puttin' SE down.


*Spoiler*: __ 





jk

they jumped the shark the moment Square merged with Enix, and you know it


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## Ennoea (Sep 1, 2013)

The Japanese industry is run by old men and the young, talented Developers are quitting the field thanks to them. They need a fucking Renaissance.


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## Canute87 (Sep 1, 2013)

Oh yeah one more thing.  Character images.  You'd see these cool looking characters on the box but be playing with these south park looking versions.

I don't know who's left to try and bring back the Japanese to glory.  Capcom is dying and Square Enix gave their lives over to the western.


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## Inuhanyou (Sep 1, 2013)

I've never agreed with that. SE has a lot of mismanagement issues(or had this generation), but that hardly means they don't have lots of good talent at the company that isn't utilized. Nomura is now in charge of the FF series for its current iteration, and 14 2.0 looks very good. Type zero was a great game as well, and Drakenguard 3 looks like the best one yet.

The thing to ask is; why doesn't SE doesn't put many of their AAA actors on big projects and relegate them instead to mobile(which a few of the FF12 guys are at right now)


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## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2013)

They're both run by old men, but Japan's business elite are conservative as fuck and consider the word change a contagious four letter word.


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## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2013)

It's a little harsh, but you know it to have even a grain of truth.  Things would have been VASTLY different if The Spirits Within was not greenlit by whatever mongoloid thought it was a good idea, and I wish they never did.

They were never my favorite jRPG developer, though, and I was more fond of their non-FF titles and ideas.  Parasite Eve, Chrono Trigger, fuck, even Nier.


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## Inuhanyou (Sep 1, 2013)

I liked Atlus a lot...but SE were practically kings for me at one point. And its not as if im expecting some SNES/PS1 golden age of Square or something like that, even in the PS2 era SE was great in my opinion. They just...went crazy after AAA development became big. And it seems to have been a pattern for many Japanese studios.


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## blakstealth (Sep 1, 2013)

IGN comments section already raging. I don't even wanna see Kotaku's.


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## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2013)

> Not everything has to be a Call of Duty brown and bloom Western generic FPS you stupid ignorant fat American piece of shit.



Oh lord, dribblin' my drink.


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## Zen-aku (Sep 1, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I'm not really all that excited for many upcoming AAA titles.  With the increase of budgets we've gotten more and more titles becoming so homogeneous we've literally gotten a American fast-food effect on the larger games:  they're all just slightly different variations of the same, very tired, very cheap thing.



See i don't see that at all, Yes Cod and Battlefeild are popular and have spawned  imitators, but there's plenty of different diverse  Ips new  and old still being made.

Hell look at the 180's Exclusives, you have a a Fps with mechs and parkour, a retro fighting game, a rail shooter, a third person hack and slash. a Open world Zombie Game notorious for its  creativity,and a motion-controlled music rhythm game.


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## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2013)

I'm tentatively excited for Watch Dogs and Titan Fall.  

The rest really aren't my bag, save for maybe DR3.


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## Inuhanyou (Sep 1, 2013)

I don't have issue with western games. I'm looking forward to killzone, BF4, watchdogs destiny and infamous just as much as the next guy. My issue is that there's no way western games alone can sustain my enjoyment of my hobby indefinitely. I need SOME Japanese games, i cant survive on homogenized western bullshit where every fantasy has to be a knockoff of dungeons and dragon's or medieval times, where every action game has to be some roided up douchebag with no personality. And more impotantly, i cant live on games that don't have good storylines, or have characters that i care about. 

For many western games, they just suck at storytelling/characterization in comparison to japanese games, that's just how it is. Or they don't really give it any attention and make it so straight forward and bland. I don't consider heavy rain to be some thought provoking game like David Cage wants, yet i can get feels at the outcome of Nier any day.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 1, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> They're both run by old men, but Japan's business elite are conservative as fuck and consider the word change a contagious four letter word.




Thats a very constrained view of things.

Have you talked to them? Have you observed them? Have you yet to realize they're all fucking communists? Game Devs arent Parliament you know.

Change is a 5 letter word btw


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## Canute87 (Sep 1, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> Thats a very constrained view of things.
> 
> Have you talked to them? Have you observed them? Have you yet to realize they're all fucking communists? Game Devs arent Parliament you know.
> 
> *Change is a 5 letter word btw*



I counted six.


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## Lord Yu (Sep 1, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I don't have issue with western games. I'm looking forward to killzone, BF4, watchdogs destiny and infamous just as much as the next guy. My issue is that there's no way western games alone can sustain my enjoyment of my hobby indefinitely. I need SOME Japanese games, i cant survive on homogenized western bullshit where every fantasy has to be a knockoff of dungeons and dragon's or medieval times, where every action game has to be some roided up douchebag with no personality. And more impotantly, i cant live on games that don't have good storylines, or have characters that i care about.
> 
> For many western games, they just suck at storytelling/characterization in comparison to japanese games, that's just how it is. Or they don't really give it any attention and make it so straight forward and bland. I don't consider heavy rain to be some thought provoking game like David Cage wants, yet i can get feels at the outcome of Nier any day.



David Cage is hardly the hallmark of western storytelling and is, in fact, more of a running gag. If you want good storytelling characterization in  Western games I'd go with Chris Avellone.  Japanese and Western markets both have their shitty writers.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 1, 2013)

Canute87 said:


> I counted six.



I should take these 3D glasses off.


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## Utopia Realm (Sep 1, 2013)

FPS games in the west has me biting my lip. Halo 4 I thought was gonna be really sweet but turns out to be a CoD-lite clone. Seems some spark in the industry is going to have to pop out for things to change.


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## Ennoea (Sep 1, 2013)

> Westerners prefer movie like performances, where Japanese games are more theatrical.



This point isn't serious is it? Quality journalism.


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## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> Change is a 5 letter word btw



Is english not your first language?  If not, I don't blame you for not getting it.  If it is:

Seriously?


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## Bioness (Sep 1, 2013)

Translation: Japanese games need more shit blowing up.



St NightRazr said:


> Change is a 5 letter word btw


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 1, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Is english not your first language?  If not, I don't blame you for not getting it.  If it is:
> 
> Seriously?





Oh please, whether or not english is my first language or not I clearly wasnt paying attention. Dont make excuses for shit man. Mistakes are mistakes.


*Still doesnt explain the fact that you said change was a 4 letter word*


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## Bioness (Sep 1, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> *Still doesnt explain the fact that you said change was a 4 letter word*





Dr. Boskov Krevorkian was basically saying the word "change" to the elderly Japanese elite is equal to an obscenity or swear word.


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## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2013)

I want a FPS with a jRPG aesthetic and story.

I want a jRPG with a gritty, modern FPS setting.


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## Zen-aku (Sep 1, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I'm tentatively excited for Watch Dogs and Titan Fall.
> 
> The rest really aren't my bag, save for maybe DR3.



my point was that  i see plenty of variation to the point i don't agree with the "Cod is poisoning all games" BS


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## Zen-aku (Sep 1, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I want a FPS with a jRPG aesthetic and story.
> 
> I want a jRPG with a gritty, modern FPS setting.



......you know....me too....


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 1, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I want a FPS with a jRPG aesthetic and story.
> 
> I want a jRPG with a gritty, modern FPS setting.



I want an FPS with good gameplay, without shitty animations.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 1, 2013)

Zen-aku said:


> my point was that  i see plenty of variation to the point i don't agree with the "Cod is poisoning all games" BS



They dont sell do they?


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## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2013)

Zen-aku said:


> my point was that  i see plenty of variation to the point i don't agree with the "Cod is poisoning all games" BS



I never said that, though.  

Fuck, I liked Call of Duty 4.  It was a good game.  



Zen-aku said:


> ......you know....me too....



Wouldn't it be awesome?



St NightRazr said:


> I want an FPS with good gameplay, without shitty animations.



It's really hard to make an FPS play much differently.  You point at things, pull the trigger and they die; you change the weapons, the speed, the handling, but it's still the same premise.

Did you check out the Serious Sam bundle?


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## Zen-aku (Sep 1, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> They dont sell do they?



Sure they do.


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## Linkofone (Sep 1, 2013)

Lololololol Japanese game designers make a better American game than American developers. :33



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZVmtDuMxAA[/youtube]


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## thinkingaboutlife (Sep 1, 2013)

Nintendo is japanese right? Well no japanese games don't suck


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## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2013)

WE NEVER GOT METAL WOLF


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## thinkingaboutlife (Sep 1, 2013)

Just because western games got more popular and over took japanese games don't mean they are better. Most of the western games are generic and aren't as good as people hype. I like both so it doesn't matter to me where its from.


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## Linkofone (Sep 1, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> WE NEVER GOT METAL WOLF



I KNOW RIGHT?! 

THE GAME IS FREAKEN LIKE 100 + DOLLARS ON EBAY ...


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## Bender (Sep 1, 2013)




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## Zen-aku (Sep 1, 2013)

thinkingaboutlife said:


> Just because western games got more popular and over took japanese games don't mean they are better. Most of the western games are generic and aren't as good as people hype. I like both so it doesn't matter to me where its from.



It's more then just  Popularity, Innovation, Story telling, Willingness to try new things, These are all things Western Games have been blowing Japan out of the water at.


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## Nep Nep (Sep 2, 2013)

I wanted to spit in the article writers face when I saw this 

"5. Westerners don?t like the body types in Japanese games, preferring more ?Roman style? bodies" 

Fuck your generalizations I hate playing as the fucking Hulk. If I want to play as a bulky dumbass I'll just go ahead and pick up a Hulk game..  

"7. Japanese games are hardcore where are western games are aimed at the masses" 

Yeah typical gamers today are too lazy to learn anything more than x button kills shit and the stick moves. It's not Japanese games fault it's this simple generation that can't handle anything more complex than the equivalent of an NES controller.  

"8. Japanese games seem to be stuck in the past" 

This is fucking hilarious. Cause CoD is totally a massive evolution in the FPS genre right?  

Western gamers prefer simple shit=/=Japanese games suck.


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## Wan (Sep 2, 2013)

That article seems like it has a sensationalist title.  The actual points don't seem to be reasons why Japanese games outright suck, but why they're _unpopular._


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## Linkofone (Sep 2, 2013)

Really would like it if they release Metal Wolf in the United States ...


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 2, 2013)

Oman said:


> That article seems like it has a sensationalist title.  The actual points don't seem to be reasons why Japanese games outright suck, but why they're _unpopular._





Well with Call of Duty Black Ops 2 winning accolades for best story of all time Im pretty sure thats all they give a damn about


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## DeathScream (Sep 2, 2013)

well

-japan hates doom or any 90's FPS series to the teeth due to the lack of pc gaming there even in the 90's, thus the console ports sucked a lot(snes doom, and wolf 3d), also the lack of good pcs there too for a decade, if you wanted a good one, needed to import from US

-Western Core RPG's came from PC's too, we had king's bounty, Ultima, Elder scrolls, Baldur's gate and fallout, and diablo 1 that even had a PSX port, but it never reached there due to the "violence" and the infamous 10 block saves

-spartan bodies:...., well its a freakin game, only in japan you play as weak ass shinji ikari, thus we always had that "superhero" wish that your gaming character its a STRONG MOFO with a Clark Kent/Carol Danvers body, thus the idea that all japanese protagonists are kids, while here our main protagonists are full grown up teenagers or veteran adults

and the last one zen-aku has already told, thus they are conservative and xenophobic as double- fuck, skyrim and Fallout New Vegas almost made the the JRPG reviewers there cry a lake of manly tears damnit


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## Kagekatsu (Sep 2, 2013)

I've always thought the big problem with Japanese devs is that they've been trying to cater to the Western market by making their games in that style. Case in point, RE6 with the CoD-style setpieces and gritty MMS motif in Chris' campaign. Another problem that comes with it is due to the Western AAA budget becoming standard, Japanese publishers feel they need to match that in order to attract sales. It's why I'm concerned over Bamco's desire to market Dark Souls II as a AAA title.


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## Naruto (Sep 2, 2013)

I'm going to talk about RPGs because I think most of Japan's games are RPGs, and it's their RPGs that suck.

Aside from very few exceptions, most of today's Japanese roleplaying games are subpar and rely on antiquated, lazy game design (grinding, random battles, etc) - providing little entertainment in whatever shitty ass story they have to tell.

The characters are always stereotypical, with the main hero and possibly most of the cast being a bunch of emotionally repressed teenagers. Anyone over 30 is considered old. Middle-aged people don't seem to exist. They just jump straight from 30 to 120 and become prunes.

The plot usually revolves around a big baddie searching for some sort of artifact of power so he can rule/destroy the world. The world is always dealing in abstracts, never exploring the whys or the hows. Everyone is one-dimensional, and character development or interpersonal relationships amount to _"I have conquered my fears and I'm ready to do something to save the people I love"_. You will scarcely have dialogue where you learn more about the people you're travelling with much less those you meet. The purpose of the poor souls populating the world you're exploring doesn't seem to extend past mundane activities, with most villagers having nothing of interest to say.

Someone will die a tragic death, lest this pass for something other than a fabricated tearjerker.

I'm not angry or anything, I don't think they need to pander to the western audience. If this kind of crap is somehow magically awesome in Japan, by all means keep making it. Maybe my unrefined _gaijin _taste just can't see the genius in regurgitated game mechanics and plot elements.

Also, where is the indie scene in Japan?


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## MCTDread (Sep 2, 2013)

Naruto said:


> I'm going to talk about RPGs because I think most of Japan's games are RPGs, and it's their RPGs that suck.
> 
> Aside from very few exceptions, most of today's Japanese roleplaying games are subpar and rely on antiquated, lazy game design (grinding, random battles, etc) - providing little entertainment in whatever shitty ass story they have to tell.
> 
> ...




 wow... Well said.


Old article from July but it's sort of answers your question


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 2, 2013)

Naruto said:


> I'm going to talk about RPGs because I think most of Japan's games are RPGs, and it's their RPGs that suck.
> 
> Aside from very few exceptions, most of today's Japanese roleplaying games are subpar and rely on antiquated, lazy game design (grinding, random battles, etc) - providing little entertainment in whatever shitty ass story they have to tell.
> 
> ...



What RPG's have you been playing?

Honestly everything you said is generally the shitty type of anime's they seem to keep making now adays.


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## kluang (Sep 2, 2013)

You want one thing I hate about Jrpg

Random encounters.


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## Naruto (Sep 2, 2013)

For shame.



St NightRazr said:


> Honestly everything you said is generally the shitty type of anime's they seem to keep making now adays.



I haven't watched any anime in a long time.

What I said applies to 99% of Square-Enix's lineup. Chrono Trigger, FF4~6~7 and a handful of others were all games I thoroughly enjoyed, but the problem lies in the fact that the shortcomings of all these games persist in modern releases and are at times more pronounced.


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## Kagekatsu (Sep 2, 2013)

You need to play some of Atlus' RPGs


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## Rios (Sep 2, 2013)

Japanese games are for pussies. Every time I see a Final Fantasy gameplay, cut scenes or even gifs I cringe.

They do make some good horrors though, gonna give them credit for that.


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## Naruto (Sep 2, 2013)

Kagekatsu said:


> You need to play some of Atlus' RPGs



I own a lot of SMT.


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## Shirker (Sep 2, 2013)

Naruto said:


> I'm going to talk about RPGs because I think most of Japan's games are RPGs, and it's their RPGs that suck.
> 
> Aside from very few exceptions, most of today's Japanese roleplaying games are subpar and rely on antiquated, lazy game design (grinding, random battles, etc) - providing little entertainment in whatever shitty ass story they have to tell.
> 
> ...



And here I am, currently addicted to Tales of Graces.

I like mah tropes, okay? Gawd!


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## Naruto (Sep 2, 2013)

I didn't mean to judge anyone that likes these games.


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## Shirker (Sep 2, 2013)

Yeah, I know. I'm mainly futsin' around. 

BTW, you forgot the "amnesia" trope. That shit's pretty common across the sea as well.


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## Naruto (Sep 2, 2013)

Shirker said:


> Yeah, I know. I'm mainly futsin' around.
> 
> BTW, you forgot the "amnesia" trope. That shit's pretty common across the sea as well.



Oh man, I'm not even going to try and list all the tropes. I like the burned-village-where-I-was-born one, too.

To be fair though, amnesia isn't a trope exclusive to jrpgs. That shit is everywhere.


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## Shirker (Sep 2, 2013)

I will butt heads with you on one point, though: grinding. I think grinding is lazy game design *only* when it's your sole means of strengthening your character and progressing, but I don't think it's inherently poor. It's a prouct of RPGs much the same way that jumping the majority of the time in a platformer is a product of platforming.

You probably weren't implying such, but that's what I read.

Random battles, though? Yeah, those are pretty... eeuuugh....


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## Wesley (Sep 2, 2013)

Naruto said:


> Aside from very few exceptions, most of today's Japanese roleplaying games are subpar and rely on antiquated, lazy game design (grinding, random battles, etc) - providing little entertainment in whatever shitty ass story they have to tell.



Grandia didn't have random battles.  You could see enemies on the field and avoid them if you were lucky.



> The characters are always stereotypical, with the main hero and possibly most of the cast being a bunch of emotionally repressed teenagers. Anyone over 30 is considered old. Middle-aged people don't seem to exist. They just jump straight from 30 to 120 and become prunes.



The cast ranged from an 8 year old girl to a pointy eared librarian that was probably thousands of years old.  Pretty much everyone is positive and upbeat and expresses a wide range of emotion.  Even the party members that leave have their own lives and back grounds explored.



> The plot usually revolves around a big baddie searching for some sort of artifact of power so he can rule/destroy the world.



Kinda.  The big baddie isn't really front and center until about half way through the game.  Even after he's revealed, exploration remains the main theme.  Pressing on and going forward seeing things no one else has seen.



> The world is always dealing in abstracts, never exploring the whys or the hows.



I'm not sure what you mean exactly.



> Everyone is one-dimensional, and character development or interpersonal relationships amount to _"I have conquered my fears and I'm ready to do something to save the people I love"_. You will scarcely have dialogue where you learn more about the people you're travelling with much less those you meet. The purpose of the poor souls populating the world you're exploring doesn't seem to extend past mundane activities, with most villagers having nothing of interest to say.



Villagers usually have something to say regarding current events.  They offer insight into the past, usually have something funny to say, and when you perform a task, their dialogue changes either to reflect on what you've done or to continue whatever story they were telling.  More often than that, they're amusing and interact with the party members who have conversations with them.

The cast changes multiple times throughout the game.  Characters come and go for various reasons, but during the varying length of time you've known them, you learn about as much as you'd expect from spending time with a person and seeing their home.



> Someone will die a tragic death, lest this pass for something other than a fabricated tearjerker.




*Spoiler*: __ 



That does happen.  Actually alot of people die.




All in all, I thought it was a very engaging and uplifting game with a super mega happy ending.  Haven't seen an RPG like that ever.


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## MS81 (Sep 2, 2013)

I think SE needs to team up with Capcom or Platinum to come up with medium so they make games that look good as Versus but play like DMC3 or Bayonetta!!! 
make a totally new game maybe in a familiar final fantasy world but with new characters.


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## Kind of a big deal (Sep 2, 2013)

I can't say I completely disagree with the article. It's not just that IGN guy, there's developers (even from Japan) that are saying the same thing. Recent business decisions from capcom, konami, SE, and others to outsource IP's to western studios suggests they acknowledge that as well. To get the results and revenue they got in the past they have to make their games for non-Japanese audiences in mind. So there's really no point in denying that.

However, the reasons why it's shifted are up for debate. The IGN guy gives some possible explanations (though suggests they are truths). I think some of these points are true, especially the lack of innovation in gameplay and storytelling problems are interesting to me because they are reasons I have personally noticed before.

We have to keep in mind, this is a Naruto forum. Sure, most of us don't even read that manga anymore, or are here for other reasons, but odds are we 'get' Japanese storytelling more than other people. But things like evoking empathy, body types (also age related with Japan's focus on teens as ideal), being inherently conservative, those ARE real issues for Japanese stories for western audiences. Especially the last one is a cultural thing, but it makes Japanese developers in the conceptual stage be more formulaic, whereas western developers would be be creative. This is a generalisation of course.

And of course there's great games coming from Japan. And many bad games coming from the west as well. That's not in question. It's the fact that the so called triple A games from western developers are just better as games and in sales. In the early 90's, games from Japan were simply better on average and sold better, and now only stand-out titles are great and do well, or appeal only to niche audiences in the west (for example to people on a manga/anime forum).


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## bigduo209 (Sep 2, 2013)

I think the most interesting difference between Western and Japanese games is the implementation of physics. Whether it's dynamics in animation or destructible objects/environments.

Japanese games tend to have limited or little-to-no physics in games.

American games tend to have more of a physics-oriented approach towards gameplay and cinematics.

I wonder why that's the case? Is it because adding physics is costly and more unpredictable from a programming standpoint?

I would like to see some Japanese games where combat involves some use of the environment or different terrains. Like the way a character could gain different abilities or fight animations in the desert versus fighting someone in a jungle.

Seeing a few Japanese games take existing genres/brands and mix them up with new ideas involving physics and A.I. would really light up imaginations. 

Maybe there are some good Japanese games that already do that, but I genuinely haven't noticed...


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## Jon Snow (Sep 2, 2013)

The Yakuza series is pretty great though


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Sep 2, 2013)

Tired and outdated mechanics, robot like animations, overdramatic cliche stories full of emoness and pretentious attempts at seeming deep, corny and lame dialogs, these are some of the problems i see in many Japanese games.

It's not really about the lack of money, they are stuck in the past and can't seem to move on.


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## Furious George (Sep 2, 2013)

Article was poorly written and, as up to usual Kotaku standard, designed to get nerd rage hits.

That being said, the points made have been made time and time again and they are always (mostly) right. 

JRPGS are all but dead. We know this. 
There is a cultural gap between Western and Japanese games. We know this.

Nothing to see here, really.


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## Bioness (Sep 2, 2013)

MCTDread said:


> wow... Well said.
> 
> 
> Old article from July but it's sort of answers your question



Isn't that what Nintendo did before which inadvertently created the Playstation and got the company sued for breaking antitrust laws?

Seriously I love the main series games of Nintendo, but that company needs a fucking executive cleansing.


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## Aldric (Sep 2, 2013)

The japanese gaming industry has tons of issues and the decline of some of its major players is painful to watch (Konami is a tragedy) but these articles often fail to mention that western gaming sucks shit too

But I guess I shouldn't expect too much from people who can listen to David Cage without bursting out laughing


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## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2013)

bigduo209 said:


> I think the most interesting difference between Western and Japanese games is the implementation of physics. Whether it's dynamics in animation or destructible objects/environments.
> 
> Japanese games tend to have limited or little-to-no physics in games.
> 
> ...



Valve.

I'm not even kidding.


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## Malvingt2 (Sep 2, 2013)

The Tales series is part of the blame of what it is going on with the JRPG genre that said I didn't like the article at all..


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## Linkdarkside (Sep 2, 2013)

Random encounters suck I only like it in pokemon, other than that I haven't played a JRPG that doent have Final Fantasy in its name.


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## Shirker (Sep 2, 2013)

The only reason I can give Pocket Monsters even a slight pass for its random encounters is because discovering new Pokemon by chance is a big part of the fun of the game.

Even then though, I feel like generally, all it's good for is hindering progress.


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## bigduo209 (Sep 2, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Valve.
> 
> I'm not even kidding.



Are you talking about the publisher/company or something else?

Don't leave me hanging here... a little elaboration couldn't hurt.


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## αshɘs (Sep 2, 2013)

I think he means Half-Life's influence regarding narrative, cinematics and HL2's influence regarding physics.


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## Enclave (Sep 2, 2013)

1: text heavy isn't bad.  This is something gamers need to deal with, I see it in FF XIV people complaining that they have to actually READ.  Perish the thought!

2: At least with jRPGs?  I think a problem is their departure from turn-based to more real-time.  Real time doesn't work fantastically for jRPGs where you generally are in control of a group of characters instead of just 1.  There are exceptions such as the Tales games and the EARLY Star Ocean games but in general?  Turn-based just works when you have 3-5 characters that you want to dictate their moves to.

3: With improved graphics came jRPGs ability to more accurately represent what characters look like.  When I envisioned Cecil in FF IV when I was a kid?  He was broad shouldered and had the appearance of a warrior.  What you would expect from a battle hardened King in medieval times.  However his actual appearance?  Largely that of a very feminine man.  Honestly if you didn't know he was a male I couldn't blame you for thinking he was a flat chested woman.  That's just annoying.

So yeah, you want to fix the jRPG?  Go turn-based and man up your characters.  You don't need to make a stupid ass bald giant of a man like so many western games do but I do like male characters to look like they have some testosterone rather than a surplus of estrogen.


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## Kei (Sep 2, 2013)

Japanese games have been lacking lately, usually back in the days Jrpgs were the ones that someone would have to go to for the gripping story lines and interesting characters. Though now with the Western video games growing, you don't have to go to Jrpgs anymore for that service. The Jrpg market needs to change up a bit to be relevant in todays growing video game industry.


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## Malvingt2 (Sep 2, 2013)

about the JRPG talks in here, I believe that it is going turn around. I have a lot of faith on Monolith Soft.


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## Mael (Sep 2, 2013)

JRPGs are a dime a dozen.

But Japanese games don't suck for one reason:

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: All-Star Battle.


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Sep 2, 2013)

^Nobody makes fighting games like the Japanese.


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## Gomu Ningen (Sep 2, 2013)

Japanese games don't suck.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 2, 2013)

bigduo209 said:


> I think the most interesting difference between Western and Japanese games is the implementation of physics. Whether it's dynamics in animation or destructible objects/environments.
> 
> Japanese games tend to have limited or little-to-no physics in games.
> 
> ...



The operation rainfall game trilogy has all of these. Xenoblade has jiggle phsyics, TLS is combat Ai management with environment interaction pandoras tower is just awesome all around


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## MS81 (Sep 2, 2013)

and that's why Americans have Ryse instead of some cool ass JRPG style action game.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 2, 2013)

No we have Ryse because Microsoft has a "MURDER THE COMPETITION BY MAKING SIMILAR GAMES BETTER THAN THEY DO" kind of mentality

If you want a MGS Rising or a Vanquish styled action rpg you should wait until I finish mine ._.

Or wait for Suda51 to make one with Grasshopper


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## MS81 (Sep 2, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> No we have Ryse because Microsoft has a "MURDER THE COMPETITION BY MAKING SIMILAR GAMES BETTER THAN THEY DO" kind of mentality
> 
> If you want a MGS Rising or a Vanquish styled action rpg you should wait until I finish mine ._.
> 
> Or wait for Suda51 to make one with Grasshopper



I got Bayonetta,MGS Rising, and Lost Odyssey, games that most people forgot about...


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## thinkingaboutlife (Sep 2, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> The operation rainfall game trilogy has all of these. *Xenoblade has jiggle phsyics*, TLS is combat Ai management with environment interaction pandoras tower is just awesome all around



Proof or you are lying.


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## Mael (Sep 2, 2013)

Personally Western AND Japanese games suffer from some pretty serious repetitions.  Nintendo is notorious for riding coattails and I believe have lost their luster for good.  But if I did have to give ONE thing to Western games as compared to the many Japanese games I've played, I think when a Western game produces a good story, it's a fucking superior story.  The two I bring to the table are The Last of Us and Spec Ops: The Line.  Japanese games usually have a good story within a game, but then pump out sequel after sequel and it just won't stop.  Examples include Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Metal Gear, and Metroid.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 2, 2013)

bigduo209 said:


> I think the most interesting difference between Western and Japanese games is the implementation of physics. Whether it's dynamics in animation or destructible objects/environments.
> 
> Japanese games tend to have limited or little-to-no physics in games.
> 
> ...





thinkingaboutlife said:


> Proof or you are lying.



Meyneths boobs and Sharla's ass

A blooming classic of Tits are Life and Ass is Hometown


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 2, 2013)

Bioness said:


> Isn't that what Nintendo did before which inadvertently created the Playstation and got the company sued for breaking antitrust laws?
> 
> Seriously I love the main series games of Nintendo, but that company needs a fucking executive cleansing.



Japanese laws are terrible themselves. Its very hard to self publish in japan.Its a culture thing. From what I've seen Nintendo's gotten rid of the excutives they've needed to. 

Reggie's just a marketer and a COO, Iwata's a pretty good taskmanager, if a little odd overall. 

Personally I think they should get rid of Scott Moffit for that marketing silliness and his comments lol/


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## Aldric (Sep 2, 2013)

Mael said:


> Personally Western AND Japanese games suffer from some pretty serious repetitions.  Nintendo is notorious for riding coattails and I believe have lost their luster for good.  But if I did have to give ONE thing to Western games as compared to the many Japanese games I've played, I think when a Western game produces a good story, it's a fucking superior story.  The two I bring to the table are The Last of Us and Spec Ops: The Line.  Japanese games usually have a good story within a game, but then pump out sequel after sequel and it just won't stop.  Examples include Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Metal Gear, and Metroid.



Some japanese games have excellent stories

Like Silent Hill 2, Mother 3 or 999


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 2, 2013)

Mael said:


> Personally Western AND Japanese games suffer from some pretty serious repetitions.  Nintendo is notorious for riding coattails and I believe have lost their luster for good.  But if I did have to give ONE thing to Western games as compared to the many Japanese games I've played, I think when a Western game produces a good story, it's a fucking superior story.  The two I bring to the table are The Last of Us and Spec Ops: The Line.  Japanese games usually have a good story within a game, but then pump out sequel after sequel and it just won't stop.  Examples include Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Metal Gear, and Metroid.



Metroid is a terrible example. 
Nintendo doesnt churn Metroid out.
The Other M game is a complete errant betrayal of the series but that aside the 2D games are phenomenal games that use presentation to tell the story, which honestly are used as accents for the gameplay. The Prime series is made by westerners(This is why Other M tried to be the Anti~Prime) so if you feel the trilogy was meh story wise blame Texas.


Also you should read this


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## Mael (Sep 2, 2013)

Aldric said:


> Some japanese games have excellent stories
> 
> Like Silent Hill 2, Mother 3 or 999



I know about Mother 3 and SH2, but part of my point is that when the Japanese often have a good thing going the first time, it gets fucked up with repetition.  Of course few people successfully pull sequels off of one brilliant piece.  The only one I know to date that has done it near flawlessly was Half-Life.


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## Kagekatsu (Sep 2, 2013)

the_notorious_Z.?. said:


> ^Nobody makes fighting games like the Japanese.



Probably because with the exception of Netherealm and the guys behind Skullgirls, no one _but_ the Japanese make fighting games.


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## Takahashi (Sep 2, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> I think I know one of the developers he asked.



I thought that's who it was when I saw the title 

Anyway, as long as Platinum Games continues to exist, I haven't lost faith in Japanese game development


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## Shirker (Sep 2, 2013)

Kagekatsu said:


> Probably because with the exception of Netherealm and the guys behind Skullgirls, no one _but_ the Japanese make fighting games.



Hey now! The US make plenty of fighting games!


*Spoiler*: __ 



It's just that they're mostly shit....


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## Kagekatsu (Sep 2, 2013)

Shirker said:


> Hey now! The US make plenty of fighting games!
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



I was actually cautiously optimistic for Killer Instinct until I saw Double Helix was making it.


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## Zen-aku (Sep 2, 2013)

Shirker said:


> Hey now! The US make plenty of fighting games!
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


 Neverealm's last  2 games were better then Capcom's last 2 fighting games soooooo....



Kagekatsu said:


> I was actually cautiously optimistic for Killer Instinct until I saw Double Helix was making it.



I've been following it despite that, it actually looks really good.


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## Shirker (Sep 2, 2013)

Zen-aku said:


> Neverealm's last  2 games were better then Capcom's last 2 fighting games soooooo....



Heh, heh, I did say "mostly" 

Don't worry, I'm on record singing Netherealms's praises for their single player campaigns alone. However, while they do stand tall, they stand tall atop a mountain of fertilizer.


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## Zen-aku (Sep 2, 2013)

Shirker said:


> Heh, heh, I did say "mostly"
> 
> Don't worry, I'm on record singing Netherealms's praises for their single player campaigns alone. However, while they do stand tall, they stand tall atop a mountain of fertilizer.



well as some one said there's really no one else unless your gonna count the WWE and UFC games


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 2, 2013)

Killer Instinct may look good, but its terrible


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## Zen-aku (Sep 2, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> Killer Instinct may look good, but its terrible



have you played it, Cause the guys playing it say its good.


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## Mael (Sep 2, 2013)

What was the big fuss about Skullgirls?

It really didn't look so amazing to me...


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## Shirker (Sep 2, 2013)

Zen-aku said:


> well as some one said there's really no one else unless your gonna count the WWE and UFC games



There are a couple, but they're mostly old games that got lost to the passage of time because they were so bad.

BTW, I do kinda count the WWE and UFC as fighters, but only on the flimsy correlation that wrestling games use to rely heavily on the AKI engine which inspired the mechanics of one of the greatest fighters of all time: "Def Jam Fight for NY". 

That said, they're more sports simulators these days. And not very good ones. 



Mael said:


> What was the big fuss about Skullgirls?
> 
> It really didn't look so amazing to me...



Think Mahvel with boobs and actual balance. It's pretty good.


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## Kagekatsu (Sep 2, 2013)

That and practically every single frame in the game, from background to characters was hand-drawn from scratch.


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## Mael (Sep 2, 2013)

Oh ok...effort-wise it's impressive but I thought people were treating the game like it was the best fighting game since sex. 

But I'll just take mah JoJo thank you.


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## Kagekatsu (Sep 2, 2013)

Which reminds me of another thing why Japanese devs are considered to be close minded, the fact they never seem willing to release games to the West. 

Yes, certain titles like SRW is impossible because licensing, but I should remind you that Xenoblade was possible only because of Operation Rainfall.


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## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2013)

They don't release games in the West for the same reason that EA doesn't release Dude Shooter 3: the Shootening in Japan:  different markets and unreasonable sales goals.  There are many differences between the two markets, but that is something endemic to neither, specifically.


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## Jon Snow (Sep 2, 2013)

Shirker said:


> Think Mahvel with boobs and actual balance. It's pretty good.



And beautiful handdrawn stuff


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 2, 2013)

6 pages on this subject and no one thought of DmC and the DMC series?


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## Zen-aku (Sep 2, 2013)

Comic Book Guy said:


> 6 pages on this subject and no one thought of DmC and the DMC series?



DmC was not a bad Game!


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 2, 2013)

No but the people who made it are bad people/


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## Naruto (Sep 3, 2013)

Comic Book Guy said:


> 6 pages on this subject and no one thought of DmC and the DMC series?



I think most people agree that when it comes to beat 'em ups and fighting games, japan is actually far above the rest.

That's why I ripped into jrpgs and not other things.


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## Linkdarkside (Sep 3, 2013)

*Inafune says Japanese industry has "gotten worse"*



> ega Man creator Keiji Inafune says it's a "shame" that game industry in island nation has fallen further, believes Kickstarter is one "fantastic" option to revive the market.
> 
> The Japanese game industry has "gotten worse," according to Mega Man creator and former Capcom director Keiji Inafune. Speaking with GameSpot today at PAX Prime, the outspoken critic of the Japanese game scene lamented the state of the industry, but said developers have options to turn things around.
> 
> ...





also Mortal Kombat 2011 and Injustice God Among us > any Capcom fighting game on this gen.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Sep 3, 2013)

Damn fucking right its gotten worse if TW101 is bombing over there. Apathetic louts...


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## Sanger Zonvolt (Sep 3, 2013)

IGN+Kotaku

A fusion of the worst two gaming sites.


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## Buskuv (Sep 3, 2013)

Both markets are suffering quality control.

Unlike music, movies, books or even theatre, videogames have come into their marketability much, much more quickly--especially in an age of unparalleled connectivity and mass media.  They're becoming bloated, self-plagiarizing (and sometimes just regular plagiarizing), middle of the road experiences because of the massive budgets, just like movies.  We're being led to believe that games need massive, unthinkable budgets to be good (oh look, The Old Republic wasn't good), but thankfully we have a wonderful resurgence of indie titles, and, hell, companies like CD Projekt who have proven that budgets much smaller than the AAA titles of the US can produce games far, far above it.

The same goes for the Japanese, in roughly the same way.

We also have people honestly believing that for games to survive they need to be more like movies; to be respected, they need to harp other mediums, and in many cases, simply remove the gameplay itself.  I really hope few people buy into this.  Though, I do think it's funny that Gone Home has become so well regarded when it's basically something like Hotel Dusk without any other character interaction.


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## Deathbringerpt (Sep 3, 2013)

It's interesting how Square Enix publishes the yearly Call of Duties in Japan and it always tops the charts though. Not for long but there is some demand over there.


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