# ITT: This whole Mods vs the OBD problem



## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2012)

Because the staff are apparently to chickenshit to be blunt with us to actually try and come to a compromise and would rather ban first and ask questions later even after trying to make a compromise with then in order to get shit done

>Higher up staff being avid lolicon fans
>Making claims of hazing new members with no evidence 
>Distracted taking his ball and running away
>Naruto getting the boot before he even stepped up as an OBD mod
>Naruko's vagina filled with multiple layers of sand
>Greed is too soft 
>Janitor Moogle getting the short end of the stick
>Mods complaining about not being online 24/7
>Cubey's mom
>OBD HR Leak


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## Jeroen (Jul 3, 2012)

OBD whining thread ?
OBD whining thread.


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## Es (Jul 3, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cciPldhI9o&feature=relmfu[/YOUTUBE]




Mr. Waffles said:


> OBD whining thread ?
> OBD whining thread.





Bender said:


> I'm not even going say what the problem is with the OBD. I'll let what happens next to people talking ignorant speak for itself.




Go home and be a family man


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm not even going say what the problem is with the OBD. I'll let what happens next to people talking ignorant speak for itself.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2012)

ITT: No one gives a shit about waffles


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## Asune (Jul 3, 2012)




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## Jeroen (Jul 3, 2012)

Es said:


> Go home and be a family man



I am home, but have no family. 



Darth Nihilus said:


> ITT: No one gives a shit about waffles



Waffles are overrated anyways.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2012)

Jelly motherfucking toast


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## Jeroen (Jul 3, 2012)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Jelly motherfucking toast



I prefer pancakes, personally. 
To each their own, though.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2012)

Are they filled with trees


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

Darth Nihilus said:


> ITT: No one gives a shit about waffles



Everyone loves waffles. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about...  

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAaiM-xiY1s[/YOUTUBE]

I believe the correct term is "me" and for that matter "everyone else" which in fact they do. If they didn't they wouldn't be closing every spite, and bash threat created by you guys. It's juvenile shit 101.


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## Jeroen (Jul 3, 2012)

Oddly enough, no.
I prefer my trees in tea, even though I've hadn't had trees in over a decade.


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## ~Greed~ (Jul 3, 2012)

> >Greed is too soft



Wait, you want me to ban more people..........????





*Spoiler*: __ 






Heads will roll


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2012)

Just mix it with cinnamon and eggs

And let that shit fry till it's ready

The very best


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

@Darth Nihilus

Ya know what I do whenever bullshit goes on the forums? I open a bag of weed.  Or better yet do something other than cry over the loss of some stupid convo on a  goddamn message board. Trust me you'll better.


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## Jeroen (Jul 3, 2012)

John Gotti said:


> Wait, you want me to ban more people..........????
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You should put those heads on spikes. Sends a better message.



Darth Nihilus said:


> Just mix it with cinnamon and eggs
> 
> And let that shit fry till it's ready
> 
> The very best



If I ever decide to try out.. trees again I'll make sure to give this a try.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2012)

Bada bing

Bada boom


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 3, 2012)

John Gotti said:


> Wait, you want me to ban more people..........????
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You act like you will ever get the chance


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## Im The Evil Mastermind (Jul 3, 2012)

I didnt know Gotti was a moderator in OBD.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2012)

I didn't know that sand was sentient 

themoreyouknow.jpg


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## Asune (Jul 3, 2012)

What darth nihilus means is to ban those who really deserves.


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## Jeroen (Jul 3, 2012)

Asune said:


> What darth nihilus means is to ban those who really deserves.



Banning 99% of the OBD. 
Sounds like a good plan to me.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2012)

Or get demoted

Either or works just fine


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## Crimson King (Jul 3, 2012)

John Gotti said:


> Wait, you want me to ban more people..........????
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You should have been booted for being worse than useless.


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

Asune said:


> What darth nihilus means is to ban those who really deserves.



....AHhahahahaha

That is hilarious. And you guys know who really deserve to be banned.  The people who you want to be banned are people who are clinically sane, aren't always getting upset over shit that happens in the OBD, and opinion myopic.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 3, 2012)

Crimson King said:


> You should have been booted for being worse than useless.



Now now, he was more active than Moogle was


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 3, 2012)

who's this Waffles shemale


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Now now, he was more active than Moogle was



Janitors are always active mein square

So I'm calling bullshit


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## Barioth (Jul 3, 2012)

Inb4 closed thread.

I didn't know Waffle can count 99%.

And clinically sane, Bender, means they were once save by Darth, CD, and the others.


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## Nevermind (Jul 3, 2012)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> who's this Waffles shemale


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 3, 2012)

You... don't remember what Moogle was like as an OBD mod do you?


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## Jeroen (Jul 3, 2012)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> who's this Waffles shemale



How did you know I was a shemale ?


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## Im The Evil Mastermind (Jul 3, 2012)

Was he a a beacon of fury and judgement?


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> You... don't remember what Moogle was like as an OBD mod do you?


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## Asune (Jul 3, 2012)

Bender said:


> ....AHhahahahaha
> 
> That is hilarious. *And you guys know who really deserve to be banned.*  *The people who you want to be banned are people who are clinically sane*, aren't always getting upset over shit that happens in the OBD, and opinion myopic.



RED: Yeah, Bender for example
BLUE: No you're not sane at all.


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

Anar G said:
			
		

> And clinically sane, Bender, means they were once save by Darth, CD, and the others.



lol yeah, I know. The logic is hilarious.


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## Barioth (Jul 3, 2012)

Bender said:


> lol yeah, I know. The logic is hilarious.



Uh, no you don't. You stated clinically sane, therefore you are one of them. And why are you laughing at clinically sane? Are you against your own kind? 

Asune's blue bold is the evidence and so is this quote.


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

Asune said:


> RED: Yeah, Bender for example
> BLUE: No you're not sane at all.



Awww but I thought you loved me Asune. 

Funny enough, whenever I talk to supermods they said how they tried taking your side billions of times. And considering how the logic is basically "come down hard on anyone who makes one-sided threads and doesn't look at the wiki" I'm not surprised she turned against your side.


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## Es (Jul 3, 2012)

Bender your almost universally reviled


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

Anar G said:


> Uh, no you don't. You stated clinically sane, therefore you are one of them. And why are you laughing at clinically sane? Are you against your own kind?



Huh, no I ain't against my own kind. Not trying to be elitist or anything or make people who get the crap end of the stick when it comes to the OBD as saints. Dude, the issues has gotten out of hand.


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## Asune (Jul 3, 2012)

Mmmm I'm bad at doing battle threads, yet I look the wiki for info of course.

That doesn't change anything of what you are


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## Jeroen (Jul 3, 2012)

ITT: Ignoring the OP and arguing with Bender about Bender


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## Barioth (Jul 3, 2012)

Assistance Arrival



What is my kind again? said:


> Huh, no I ain't against my own kind.



There is no need to state that. By the way. Ain't is not a word.



Perhaps said:


> Not trying to be elitist or anything or make people who get the crap end of the stick when it comes to the OBD as saints.



What? OBD are saints? I don't know where you get that conclusion. Thus you are Clinically sane.



I have no Ambition said:


> Dude, the issues has gotten out of hand.



Ohhhhhh.... So you notice the situation. Good. Now you have notice, what will you do?

Nothing? Hahahaha So be it.


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## Im The Evil Mastermind (Jul 3, 2012)

Please stop Anar G. I keep imaging the guy in your avatar saying all this shit.


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## Es (Jul 3, 2012)

Yes lets just ignore Bender like the infestation he is and move on


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## Barioth (Jul 3, 2012)

Some sort of zombie said:


> Please stop Anar G. I keep imaging the guy in your avatar saying all this shit.



I am a Hero of Chaos. Psychology is my worst nature. It is agreed then. I shall stop.


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

Asune said:


> Mmmm I'm bad at doing battle threads, yet I look the wiki for info of course.



Good for you.

But really  hell it's not just about the matchmaking it's how attempts are continuously made to link the OBD wiki and Naruto forums OBD section which are separate entities. Using it to gauge characters power levels cool. But as said before they're differen entities.  The profiles on the OBD wiki aren't able to be created by users, rather the OBD wiki staff. And the stuff on the profile is pretty much a crud load of trash talk about them. Follow tvtropes example and let people do their own profile page.


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## Crimson King (Jul 3, 2012)

And let the wiki get turned into a pile of fucking horseshit filled with idiots wanking to their favourite characters?


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

> What? OBD are saints? I don't know where you get that conclusion. Thus you are Clinically sane.



I said people against the OBD aren't saints but they do have the right mindset. 





> Ohhhhhh.... So you notice the situation. Good. Now you have notice, what will you do?




Dude why the hell are you getting so off-topic.  This is hardly about me.


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## Asune (Jul 3, 2012)

Exactly what the hell are you talking about now?


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

Crimson King said:


> And let the wiki get turned into a pile of fucking horseshit filled with idiots wanking to their favourite characters?



I'm talking about users profiles, NOT fictional characters profiles.


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## Asune (Jul 3, 2012)

Bender said:


> I'm talking about users profiles, NOT fictional characters profiles.



It's official, you're a joke


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## Es (Jul 3, 2012)

Bender said:


> I'm talking about users profiles, NOT fictional characters profiles.


Who cares. 

Can we ignore Genderbender and get back on topic? Or wait for the mods to post something if they don't lock this


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## Samavarti (Jul 3, 2012)

Es said:


> Who cares.
> 
> Can we ignore Genderbender and get back on topic? Or wait for the mods to post something if they don't lock this



This, just ignore bender.


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

Asune said:


> It's official, you're a joke



lol, you are so bi polar I swear. 

I'm a joke because I'm suggesting equality.  That is fucking hilarious
  

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_mFzYv-kPU&feature=relmfu[/YOUTUBE]


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## Asune (Jul 3, 2012)

Es said:


> Who cares.
> 
> Can we ignore Genderbender and get back on topic? Or wait for the mods to post something if they don't lock this





Samavarti said:


> This, just ignore bender.



Yeah, ok, you're right.


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

I've been on topic the entire time.


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## Barioth (Jul 3, 2012)

@Es

I think the first thing I need to do is being more knowledgeable about Comic. Therefore I have to read more comic. I already plan to buy Wanted. 

I think the Comic Battledome is quite inactive. Although I could be wrong though.


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## Crimson King (Jul 3, 2012)

Bender said:


> I'm talking about users profiles, NOT fictional characters profiles.



Then we'll have a hundred pages of "X member is the best and everyone else eats shit". There's a reason members aren't allowed to edit their own page.


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## Asune (Jul 3, 2012)

No Avenger on your signature


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## Nevermind (Jul 3, 2012)

More specifically, you aren't allowed to edit what others say about you on your page. Putting your own comments there (such as your favorite fictions) is alright.

That was all pre-PG though.


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

Crimson King said:


> Then we'll have a hundred pages of "X member is the best and everyone else eats shit". There's a reason members aren't allowed to edit their own page.



..................... 



Wow that has got to be the stupidest of stupid assumptions that I have ever heard. Seriously? You honestly think people will put that type of shit in their profile?  Barely anyone else puts that type of crap in their Narutoforums profiles, nor do folks of tvtropes do that. And even if they do so what? Let them be. As long as they're not bashing other members it's fine. Let them be their conceited self.


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## Jeroen (Jul 3, 2012)

Bender said:


> .....................
> 
> 
> 
> Wow that has got to be the stupidest of stupid assumptions that I have ever heard. Seriously? You honestly think people will put that type of shit in their profile?  Barely anyone else puts that type of crap in their Narutoforums profiles, nor do folks of tvtropes do that. And even if they do so what? Let them be. As long as they're not bashing other members it's fine. Let them be their conceited self.



You have too much faith in people.

Also, stick to the topic. >.>


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

Mr. Waffles said:


> You have too much faith in people.



Probably, but I'm taking examples from what I've seen at tvtropes. They have their own little versus thread on the forums but even then they don't rack shit up on their profiles talking shit about other tropers or wank. 

That's why the mods on OBD are supposed to do their job and erase content from the pages of OBD'ers talking that crap. The same as mods of Naruto forums do when they see juvenile behavior in threads like what's seen in the OBD.


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## Crimson King (Jul 3, 2012)

Bender said:


> .....................
> 
> 
> 
> Wow that has got to be the stupidest of stupid assumptions that I have ever heard. Seriously? You honestly think people will put that type of shit in their profile?  Barely anyone else puts that type of crap in their Narutoforums profiles, nor do folks of tvtropes do that. And even if they do so what? Let them be. As long as they're not bashing other members it's fine. Let them be their conceited self.



We let a certain tool in for less than a day. He tried to spam the place with porn.

We let another member in. He tried to edit out his page and spam others.

And let them get away with their fuck ups and the shit they try to pull? No.


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## Bender (Jul 3, 2012)

Crimson King said:


> We let a certain tool in for less than a day. He tried to spam the place with porn.
> 
> We let another member in. He tried to edit out his page and spam others.
> 
> And let them get away with their fuck ups and the shit they try to pull? No.



So all of a sudden 1 person= how everyone will act if they're allowed to edit their own profile. 

Enforce the frickin rules on teh wiki then. Instead of being lazy and editing people's profiles let them do it.


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## OS (Jul 3, 2012)

reported


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## Es (Jul 3, 2012)

Wat                   ?


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## Crimson King (Jul 3, 2012)

Bender said:


> So all of a sudden 1 person= how everyone will act if they're allowed to edit their own profile.



Yes.



> Enforce the frickin rules on teh wiki then. Instead of being lazy and editing people's profiles let them do it.



Again, people will change their pages to "X member is the best and everyone else eats shit". Has happened more than once.


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## Distracted (Jul 4, 2012)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Because the staff are apparently to chickenshit to be blunt with us to actually try and come to a compromise and would rather ban first and ask questions later even after trying to make a compromise with then in order to get shit done
> 
> >Higher up staff being avid lolicon fans
> >Making claims of hazing new members with no evidence
> ...


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## Es (Jul 4, 2012)

There's one mod


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## EJ (Jul 4, 2012)

Does his have anything partially to do with banning members for posting pictures of women, but allowing other users to post shota child porn to continue their spree?


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## Distracted (Jul 4, 2012)

Flow said:


> Does his have anything partially to do with banning members for posting pictures of women, but allowing other users to post shota child porn to continue their spree?


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## EJ (Jul 4, 2012)

It's what happens, though if this isn't the thread I'll stop since the op is directed towards another issue.


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## Huntring (Jul 4, 2012)

So in conclusion what I've learned after reviewing the threads today:


->Most mods are ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).  
->Mods can't deal with quality and justice so they banned good members in response.  
->The convo is axed because the mods are butthurt.
->OBD is going to hell. 

Oh well today was at least today was a interesting day.


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## Distracted (Jul 4, 2012)

Huntring said:


> So in conclusion what I've learned after reviewing the threads today:
> 
> 
> ->Most mods are ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).
> ...


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## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Man, you guys really gotta complain about the mods once in a while eh?

You guys ever really wonder why the majority of the staff don't like you? I mean, you do nothing but mock and ridicule them. I'm not saying that you have to kiss their asses but at the same time you're not giving them any respect.


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## Es (Jul 4, 2012)

Respect is earned Spartan, not given.  

Simply being in charge of a forum about Naruto doesn't mean their infallible. And see this thread I'm not ridiculing anyone nor is anyone else except maybe the posters making fun of bender for his ignorance but he's insignificant anyways. In fact there's at least Willy who's the OBD agrees is better then the entire bunch


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## Basilikos (Jul 4, 2012)

Spartan1337 said:


> Man, you guys really gotta complain about the mods once in a while eh?
> 
> You guys ever really wonder why the majority of the staff don't like you? I mean, you do nothing but mock and ridicule them. I'm not saying that you have to kiss their asses but at the same time you're not giving them any respect.


I'm not saying that people haven't seriously gone too far with shit before. Because they certainly have. But Spartan, you are speaking on matters in which you do not understand the context and history behind.


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## Raiden (Jul 4, 2012)

I regret not posting in this section.


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## Huntring (Jul 4, 2012)

Spartan1337 said:


> Man, you guys really gotta complain about the mods once in a while eh?
> 
> You guys ever really wonder why the majority of the staff don't like you? I mean, you do nothing but mock and ridicule them. I'm not saying that you have to kiss their asses but at the same time you're not giving them any respect.



I vaguely remember reading about a poster called Sparten sending rape fanfiction to one of the OBD members.

If that's you then I probably shouldn't listen to you.


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## Bender (Jul 4, 2012)

Crimson King said:


> Yes.



So much sense in your logic  

Look, the OBD convo was closed because too much talk about other members who aren't "OBD regulars" and lead to them coming into the convo and a big shit storm following. Deny it all you want, but that's the fact of the matter. Not to mention it happens nearly every once a month before it was closed.


EDIT:

lol @ ThanatosSeraph

You neg rep didn't do shit.


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## Jet Pistol (Jul 4, 2012)

Huntring said:


> I vaguely remember reading about a poster called Sparten sending rape fanfiction to one of the OBD members.
> 
> If that's you then I probably shouldn't listen to you.



That's the person. Guy posted rape fiction and only the people that quote it got banned.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 4, 2012)

Meh, rep doesn't matter. I really don't care how many internet points it took off you. It just felt cathartic to do so.


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## Bender (Jul 4, 2012)

Jet Pistol said:


> That's the person. Guy posted rape fiction and only the people that quote it got banned.



Not that I'm defending Spartan's rape fanfiction. It's dumb to come up with rape fiction however, it's even dumber to bring quotes from his fucking fanfiction on the forums.


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## Asune (Jul 4, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> Meh, rep doesn't matter. I really don't care how many internet points it took off you. It just felt cathartic to do so.


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## Huntring (Jul 4, 2012)

Bender said:


> Not that I'm defending Spartan's rape fanfiction. It's dumb to come up with rape fiction however, it's even dumber to bring quotes from his fucking fanfiction on the forums.



I also vaguely remember that when the poster brought up the quotes from his "fucking fanfiction" it was to prove that Spartan did indeed write such a thing.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 4, 2012)

@Bender's neg: I can't tell you how much damage it did, as I didn't count my Internet points beforehand. Sorry about that.

On topic, can any mod actually give me one good reason as to why the convo was deleted?


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## Huntring (Jul 4, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> @Bender's neg: I can't tell you how much damage it did, as I didn't count my Internet points beforehand. Sorry about that.
> 
> On topic, can any mod actually give me one good reason as to why the convo was deleted?



I'll bet anything that their response will be filled with hidden butthurt frustration.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 4, 2012)

Welp, I'm going for a walk. Let's see if I get a response by the time I come back.


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## Distracted (Jul 4, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> @Bender's neg: I can't tell you how much damage it did, as I didn't count my Internet points beforehand. Sorry about that.
> 
> On topic, can any mod actually give me one good reason as to why the convo was deleted?



Apparently because we're full of butt hurt.


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## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Huntring said:


> I also vaguely remember that when the poster brought up the quotes from his "fucking fanfiction"* it was to prove that Spartan did indeed write such a thing.*



Why? That makes no sense. I never even denied it once. Truth is that it wasn't to prove I wrote it. It was to give me a bad reputation on the forum. Nihilus essentially said that himself.

But please let's just end the discussion right here and take this mention about the lemon fan fiction I created somewhere else like to the Blender or Lounge. Not because I don't want it brought up for the Quattuordecillionth(Yes that is an actual number.) time already, but because I don't want this topic to be derailed by such trivial matters.



Basilikos said:


> I'm not saying that people haven't seriously gone too far with shit before. Because they certainly have. But Spartan, you are speaking on matters in which you do not understand the context and history behind.



I understand most of it. You guys are frustrated because the NF don't take any action and such in the OBD. Okay. But you lot are going about this the wrong way by continually calling out the staff.


Es said:


> Respect is earned Spartan, not given.
> 
> Simply being in charge of a forum about Naruto doesn't mean their infallible. And see this thread I'm not ridiculing anyone nor is anyone else except maybe the posters making fun of bender for his ignorance but he's insignificant anyways. In fact there's at least Willy who's the OBD agrees is better then the entire bunch



You didn't. Nihilus did. Nihilus called out the staff in his first post by stating that they're lolicon fans. He also pretty much called Distracted a coward and insulted Naruko. 

Respect is earned, true, but I don't think the staff are nearly worthy of garnering such disrespect as they've been given these last couple of months by the OBD.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 4, 2012)

Distracted said:


> Apparently because we're full of butt hurt.



That was a serious question. Do you have a serious answer or not? Why was the convo deleted? 



Spartan1337 said:


> I don't want this topic to be derailed by such trivial matters.



Because sending someone rape fanfic is such a trivial matter. Doesn't matter at all.

Thank you for that fascinating glimpse into your psyche.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Jul 4, 2012)

That's irrelevant to the topic at hand.


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## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Jul 4, 2012)

^ That's exactly what I meant =/


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## Ram (Jul 4, 2012)

The OBD is full of cretins.


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## Thdyingbreed (Jul 4, 2012)

Serious question here can we finally get that 50 post count limit that was suggested in the old OBD suggestions thread?

Getting tired of that dupe who has made at least 30 dupes now coming into the OBD everyday.

Since he hasn't been Ip-banned for whatever reason I think this would be a good way to stop him and any other dupes.


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## Xiammes (Jul 4, 2012)

> Since he hasn't been Ip-banned for whatever reason I think this would be a good way to stop him and any other dupes.



Ip banning is useless, he probably has a dynamic IP, the guy can probably just unplug his router and plug it back in and get a new ip. The only person it would be hurting is the one guy who happens to get on of Dupekuns old Ip and won't be able to make an account.

More likely then you might think, happened to me a few times where I have logged onto a place and it told me I was permbanned.


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## Distracted (Jul 4, 2012)

Not to pick on you Thdyingbreed, cause I like you, but what you're saying there illustrates my only problem with the OBD.  A lot of members of the OBD bitch about stuff that every section has to deal with.  A dupe is annoying yes... but it's only some guy making a stupid thread in the section.  You can ignore it, report it, whatever, and wait for it to get banned.

Only the OBD acts like this is the end of the world.  That some special measure has to be taken to prevent this one person from ruining their day.  I spent months in the OBD, and there are a couple of dupers that are instantly recognizable and are banned the moment their profiles are checked.

They are no worse then a couple of dupers I've seen in the konoha library, or the one who used to troll the cafe, or the one who trolls the NBD.  Those are just the sections I'm familiar with.  I'm sure there are others that troll the FCs, the plaza, and every other section.

Now, like I said, I wasn't trying to pick on you.  This was just an easy illustration of a larger point and not something I see you do normally.  That guy who makes dupes is rather tenacious.  He also has a dynamic IP that he shares with people who we know for a fact are not dupes... I know, I looked into it.  If we had an easy way to get rid of him, we'd have done it already as well.  It's just not really reason enough to create a post count requirement for the OBD.

The best thing to do is to keep reporting the posts and sending VM's or PMs to the mods of the section or any available Smod.  Which is what you have been doing, and you deserve a lot of credit for that.  The only other thing to do is to simply ignore the dupe and let him be.  He doesn't have any read effect on you.


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## Xiammes (Jul 4, 2012)

> He also has a dynamic IP that he shares with people who we know for a fact are not dupes... I know, I looked into it.



See he took the words right out of my mouth.


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## Distracted (Jul 4, 2012)

I'm sure Thdyingbreed figured that there must be some good reason for us not IP banning the guy, it's not like we enjoy the busy work that comes with dealing with him either.


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## Xiammes (Jul 4, 2012)

maybe we could instead of banning him, limit him to joke battle dome only, that way he learnes that we only think of him as a joke.


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## Distracted (Jul 4, 2012)

That would be fun.


----------



## Xiammes (Jul 4, 2012)

Nothing stopping him from creating a new account, but it might slow him down realizing he is limited to only 1 section. But it beats the monotony of constantly banning him.


----------



## Orochimaru (Jul 4, 2012)

Huntring said:


> So in conclusion what I've learned after reviewing the threads today:
> 
> 
> ->Most mods are ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).
> ->OBD is going to hell.



I've been reading this since the day I joined.


----------



## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 4, 2012)

Could I please get an answer to my question? I'm not trying to provoke conflict for the sake of conflict, I seriously want to know (and possibly show that the reason isn't good enough).

As I see it now, there's no good reason to ban it.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

Bender said:


> Are you sexually propositioning me?


----------



## Bender (Jul 4, 2012)

^

Flamebait... classy.


----------



## Nevermind (Jul 4, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> On topic, can any mod actually give me one good reason as to why the convo was deleted?



No, they can't.

They say that there was hazing going on there yet couldn't name a single example of such a thing.

They say that the OBD was using it as a hostility tool to new members yet many people in the convo were new.

They say the OBD as a section is hostile to new members yet Basilikos and others pointed out around twenty or so members that had joined in the past two years were accepted and respected.

Then they just stopped trying to give a reason, and look how they avoid the question even now.

It doesn't matter much. This is their forum after all and they get to do what they want with it. However, one would reasonably expect a well-run forum to operate differently, but not NF.


----------



## Bender (Jul 4, 2012)

@Nevermind

Oh don't give us that bullshit. Quit trying to make out OBD section people to be the victims. You're not. Also Basilikos had joined five years ago when everyone was relatively alright. It has nothing to do with pointing out the rules it's how you give shit to people who fumbled in thread making in the OBD and giving them hell.


----------



## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 4, 2012)

Hey Bender. Let me tell you a story.

Once upon a time, there was a newbie poster named ThanatoSeraph. When he joined the OBD, he made a stomp thread. However, he wasn't given hell nor was he negged. He wasn't flamed. Instead, several members of the OBD pointed out his mistakes, which he acknowledged and tried to improve on.

The End.

I have never encountered this supposed hostility to newbies, and I joined in what is apparently the worst year to date.


----------



## GrandGhidorah (Jul 4, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> Hey Bender. Let me tell you a story.
> 
> Once upon a time, there was a newbie poster named ThanatoSeraph. When he joined the OBD, he made a mismatched thread. However, he wasn't given hell nor was he negged. He wasn't flamed. Instead, several members of the OBD pointed out his mistakes, which he acknowledged and tried to improve on.



True.....True....... 

-GRANdghidorAh

Change tactic make 90% the reason for NF is OBD. That'll do for now.


----------



## Es (Jul 4, 2012)

> Has had past fuck ups in the OBD
> Has improved

Yeah completely noob unfriendly


----------



## GrandGhidorah (Jul 4, 2012)

> Check the Timeline
> Read some biography of Clinically Sane
> On the Path of Quality
> Spreading hi-quality chips and drinks to all.


----------



## Bender (Jul 4, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> Hey Bender. Let me tell you a story.
> 
> Once upon a time, there was a newbie poster named ThanatoSeraph. When he joined the OBD, he made a stomp thread. However, he wasn't given hell nor was he negged. He wasn't flamed. Instead, several members of the OBD pointed out his mistakes, which he acknowledged and tried to improve on.
> 
> ...



Yeah, k keep white washing that bogus story of yours sir. No one believes it. Also wow, you joined "at the supposed worst date". I'm also speaking of people who aren't OBD regulars and hang out in other parts of the forums that are given the back of the hand.  That's just ridiculously dumb.

Also March was a relatively good date.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

Bender said:


> ^
> 
> Flamebait... classy.




Reality has a well known banhammer science bias


----------



## Samavarti (Jul 4, 2012)

In The Giorgio Tsoukalos which is runed by OBD regulars, people from who knows which part of the forum joined, and they weren't harassed neged or anything similar.
The last not allowed convo was full of noobs, which againt weren't harassed in any form.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

I harrassed them for nudes


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

But that's a separate point altogether


----------



## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 4, 2012)

Bender said:


> Yeah, k keep white washing that bogus story of yours sir. No one believes it.



Read as: "I choose not to believe it, as it shows that my argument is bullshit."

It happened, whether you like it or not.



> Also wow, you joined "at the supposed worst date". I'm also speaking of people who aren't OBD regulars and hang out in other parts of the forums that are given the back of the hand.  That's just ridiculously dumb.
> 
> Also March was a relatively good date.



In my post (which you quoted) I said that I joined in the worst YEAR in the OBD's history.

Nice reading comprehension.


----------



## Es (Jul 4, 2012)

Seriously just give up on trying to make Bender understand, he can't comprehend logic


----------



## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 4, 2012)

Yeah, I probably should give up.

It's just my instinctive response to debate someone I guess. 

I'll try to repress that.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2012)

I do sincerely hope this isn't read by staff as in: There's too much logic in the OBD, we must ban more regulars.

Again


----------



## ChainsawDentist (Jul 4, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Mods just being stupid. Nihilus's thread sums up the problems, Moogle would rather ban everyone and magically put threads as needing mod review than actually do his job by coming to a compromise with the users of a section. The mods treat the OBD as the worst section in NF, I can prove otherwise but they won't listen. Section was already dead when they stopped doing their jobs, banned people for stupid reasons, took away the convos, did not ban trolls, did not respond on time and barely had more than one competent mod for this section(Willy is'nt on 24 hours either so he can't always lock threads).
> 
> All this trouble over a section that deals in fictional characters, you need special incompetence to screw over such a section and it's users.


Sums up things pretty well.

And Bender, if you have a problem with the OBD, keep it in the section. You know, make a thread in the Meta. Because every time I see you or another post here that have nothing to do with this (people who claim they can care less btw) it's pretty much out of spite.

You probably won't read this or you will and just blow it out of context. But do keep in mind that when you want to bitch about a tongue and cheek wiki (other tongue and cheek wikis get to make fun of characters btw, even if they have serious stuff, see the Transformers wiki).

But hey, I probably just gave you more fuel to wine about. But this is me putting my two cents in.


----------



## Xiammes (Jul 4, 2012)

I'll vouch that when I joined I didn't any shit, but there is also a thing called first impressions. If the new guy comes in spewing shit, making HST/stomp threads, fails to admit when they are wrong or is too dense to understand why they are wrong, overall general scum of any internet forum they deserve any and all hostility.You know someone like Red Hero.


----------



## Sherlōck (Jul 4, 2012)

Can we atleast get some new mod in OBD who will be atleast active 2 hours a day?


----------



## Xiammes (Jul 4, 2012)

Impossible, mods are like megavideo video's, after an hour of moderating you gotta take 72 minutes off.


----------



## Sherlōck (Jul 4, 2012)

I know that. But still 



I would be happy if they appoint some new mod especially in M/A Battledome.


----------



## Bioness (Jul 4, 2012)

Another one of these threads was needed why?


----------



## Basilikos (Jul 4, 2012)

Spartan1337 said:


> But please let's just end the discussion right here and take this mention about the lemon fan fiction I created somewhere else like to the Blender or Lounge. Not because I don't want it brought up for the Quattuordecillionth(Yes that is an actual number.) time already, but because I don't want this topic to be derailed by such trivial matters.


No, it's very relevant actually to why the majority of the OBD is dissatisfied with mod actions.



> I understand most of it. You guys are frustrated because the NF don't take any action and such in the OBD. Okay. But you lot are going about this the wrong way by continually calling out the staff.


And your solution is.....what? We've tried reasoning with them before. We list the problems, offer solutions, and nothing ever gets done.

We're painted as the most hostile and bigoted section on NF while trolls, obnoxious morons, and actual bigots have been running rampant with impunity in the cafe for *YEARS* now and the staff does nothing to stop them. 

Yet when an OBDer calls a troll "terrible" or a "^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)", he gets instantly banned while the troll continues to run free.

People need to get their priorities straight around here.



> You didn't. Nihilus did. Nihilus called out the staff in his first post by stating that they're lolicon fans. He also pretty much called Distracted a coward and insulted Naruko.


Considering that people like Erio Touwa, Kira Yamato, Yokai, Zaxxon, Bioness, Ash, Toroxus, etc are/were allowed to promote their pedo shit on this site for *YEARS* without consequence I think DN's accusation is completely justified. Let's not forget the HR thread were the staff couldn't decide whether self expressing pedos should be banned or not.....from a "child friendly forum". Ugh.

Shit, I remember a thread a couple years back in the cafe where I was arguing that pedophilia/lolicon/shotacon were wrong and disgusting. Yet people in there were all pedo sympathizers and tried to drown me out with numbers alone and compared my intolerance for pedo shit with intolerance of homosexuals and colored people of all fucking things.

And then the staff thinks OBDers that don't tolerate trolls, dupes, and terrible posters are a bigger problem. Just wow.

Again, get your priorities straight, people.



Nevermind said:


> No, they can't.
> 
> They say that there was hazing going on there yet couldn't name a single example of such a thing.
> 
> ...


This.

I think I need to post that list of accepted new OBD posters again:

*Spoiler*: __ 



 8-Peacock-8
 Asune
 Bit Sean
 Brohan
 Byrdman
 ChaosTheory123
 Dandy Elegance
 DestinyDestroyer
 Eldritch Sukima
 Fluttershy
 Gundam Meister
 Huntring
 Jet Pistol
 jetwaterluffy1
 Judas
 KaiserWombat
 Kenji Boy
 Lightning Heaven
 Mali (twinrasengan)
 Nevermind
 Raidou Kuzunoha
 Roman55
 Saint Saga
 Samavarti
 Scratchy
 Some sort of zombie
 Space Mook
 ThanatoSeraph
 Unlosing Ranger
 Weather
 willyvereb




Yep. Those cruel OBDers who don't accept people.



Bender said:


> @Nevermind
> 
> Oh don't give us that bullshit. Quit trying to make out OBD section people to be the victims. You're not. Also Basilikos had joined five years ago when everyone was relatively alright. It has nothing to do with pointing out the rules it's how you give shit to people who fumbled in thread making in the OBD and giving them hell.


Why don't you quit speaking on matters you know nothing about, Bender? I already showed you in that other thread why your accusations hold no water and why you're just making a fool of yourself by refusing to take correction.

In before you try to save face in vain by saying you don't care.

Five years ago? People had no tolerance for trolls or terrible posters back then either. I got acquainted with the OBD by simply lurking for a while beforehand and not making an ass of myself once I joined. Whenever I did screw up, I would apologize and try to do better.

This isn't rocket science, people. It really isn't.



ThanatoSeraph said:


> Hey Bender. Let me tell you a story.
> 
> Once upon a time, there was a newbie poster named ThanatoSeraph. When he joined the OBD, he made a stomp thread. However, he wasn't given hell nor was he negged. He wasn't flamed. Instead, several members of the OBD pointed out his mistakes, which he acknowledged and tried to improve on.
> 
> ...


There you have it, people. A new OBD poster who fit in just fine without issue.



Bender said:


> Yeah, k keep white washing that bogus story of yours sir. No one believes it. Also wow, you joined "at the supposed worst date". I'm also speaking of people who aren't OBD regulars and hang out in other parts of the forums that are given the back of the hand.  That's just ridiculously dumb.
> 
> Also March was a relatively good date.


More of your bold claims that you refuse to substantiate, eh Bender?



Samavarti said:


> In The Giorgio Tsoukalos which is runed by OBD regulars, people from who knows which part of the forum joined, and they weren't harassed neged or anything similar.
> The last not allowed convo was full of noobs, which againt weren't harassed in any form.


This. 

Before the convo thread was even shut down, at least half the people posting in there without harassment or drama were surprise surprise.....newbies!



ThanatoSeraph said:


> Yeah, I probably should give up.
> 
> It's just my instinctive response to debate someone I guess.
> 
> I'll try to repress that.


I have that instinct as well.



Xiammes said:


> I'll vouch that when I joined I didn't any shit, but there is also a thing called first impressions. If the new guy comes in spewing shit, making HST/stomp threads, fails to admit when they are wrong or is too dense to understand why they are wrong, overall general scum of any internet forum they deserve any and all hostility.You know someone like Red Hero.


Exactly.

Don't be an irrational or annoying poster and you'll have no issue posting in the OBD.

It really isn't that difficult since even quirky people like myself have been accepted.


----------



## Bender (Jul 4, 2012)

@ Basilikos



> Yet when an OBDer calls a troll "terrible" or a "^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)", he gets instantly banned while the troll continues to run free.



I've been called "terrible" and a "^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" many times before and all I've been trying to do is rationalize with OBD members that treat people like crap.  It doesn't work. Members like Nihilus, Banhammer,Crimson King, etc just plug their ears and go about doing the same shit.



> More of your bold claims that you refuse to substantiate, eh Bender?



It was the month before the convo got taken away. But wait, let's go back some months. Yes, I remember now there was the whole incident where Smod Naruto steps in the convo to tell everyone to "chill out" and "Blade" being ignorant says "Get the hell out." I'm sorry is this another example of the rational behavior that the OBD is rumored to possess? That's like spitting in the face of a police officer after he gives you a fair warning. Also there was complaints about how Blade was banned for saying "GTFO" to Naruto.

Why wouldn't he be banned? You respect authority no matter how painful it is for you.   Or if that's too much then your logic is  double standard as a friend. By that same notion I don't have to give a shit what the rules of OBD wiki state regarding fictional chars power ratings, nor shit involving that crap with mountains and such. 

However....that's an example. The whole OBD grudging against Smods is anarchist logic. And it's heavily flawed.



> Why don't you quit speaking on matters you know nothing about, Bender? I already showed you in that other thread why your accusations hold no water and why you're just making a fool of yourself by refusing to take correction.



I was talking about the shit involving the mountains and rules of OBD matches. This is a different matter. This is respecting the rules of the forum as a whole.  The OBD convo didn't play nice and now you lose it.  



> Five years ago? People had no tolerance for trolls or terrible posters back then either. I got acquainted with the OBD by simply lurking for a while beforehand and not making an ass of myself once I joined. Whenever I did screw up, I would apologize and try to do better.



So you guys wouldn't care if someone like Bioness steps in the convo thread of the OBD..

*crickets chirping*

Of course you would. And later when he leaves it's shit talking, and that leads to his friends coming in and telling off OBD'ers how messed up it is that you're treating him like shit. The OBD convo according to you is not exclusive and yet it's suggested by you that I "just not go in cuz it turns into a shitfest". Yeah, that's pretty much just saying I'm not allowed in. This is Naruto forums, not Outskirtbattledome forums. If it were then you could go buck wild for all we care. The reality of this being, is that the OBD section is another part of Naruto forums; meaning you must follow the conditions similar to how you suggest following OBD methods when creating a match.

If not that's hypocritical shit.


----------



## EJ (Jul 4, 2012)

Why can't we just agree that the OBD should allow to do whatever they want since it's their section.


----------



## Bender (Jul 4, 2012)

Flow said:


> Why can't we just agree that the OBD should allow to do whatever they want since it's their section.



Even though it's their section it doesn't change the fact it's apart of the forum. You're still entitled to abide by the overall rules of the forum.


----------



## EJ (Jul 4, 2012)

tch. tell that to the blender .


----------



## Bender (Jul 4, 2012)

Flow said:


> tch. tell that to the blender .



The Blender just seems like some go crazy as fuck section.  OBD'ers conduct themselves in a formal fashion what with the existence of the OBD wiki and OBD regulars telling others to follow the rules of it when match-making.


----------



## Basilikos (Jul 4, 2012)

Bender said:


> I've been called "terrible" and a "^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" many times before and all I've been trying to do is rationalize with OBD members that treat people like crap.  It doesn't work. Members like Nihilus, Banhammer,Crimson King, etc just plug their ears and go about doing the same shit.


I don't feel like repeating the same things ad nauseum that I've explained to you in the past in threads and over VM. You never learn from your mistakes, you never listen, you don't take correction or advice, and you can't be reasoned with to change. I've personally tried to counsel you and people like Spartan1337 but you both didn't give a damn about improving and continued to do the same old shit. And then whatever happened to you two is somehow everyone else's fault. Um, what?

Think about it this way: Why are the list of people I mentioned in my previous post accepted and respected posters yet you and others aren't? Simple, your behavior. You aren't teachable and you don't try to follow our rules of evidence and debate. And then when people call you out on your nonsense filled posts, you cry foul.

Many people have made the OBD a section they regularly visit and find themselves able to post without any issues. Why can't the rest of you?



> It was the month before the convo got taken away. But wait, let's go back some months. Yes, I remember now there was the whole incident where Smod Naruto steps in the convo to tell everyone to "chill out" and "Blade" being ignorant says "Get the hell out." I'm sorry is this another example of the rational behavior that the OBD is rumored to possess? That's like spitting in the face of a police officer after he gives you a fair warning. Also there was complaints about how Blade was banned for saying "GTFO" to Naruto.
> 
> Why wouldn't he be banned? You respect authority no matter how painful it is for you.   Or if that's too much then your logic is  double standard as a friend. By that same notion I don't have to give a shit what the rules of OBD wiki state regarding fictional chars power ratings, nor shit involving that crap with mountains and such.
> 
> However....that's an example. The whole OBD grudging against Smods is anarchist logic. And it's heavily flawed.


Um, no. Naruto out of the blue made unreasonably strict new rules that were ambiguously worded and thus were full of loopholes that made abuse possible. Then he came into the convo on his high horse demanding that we blindly adhere to his carebear rules that he didn't take the time to even discuss with us before creating. People tried to reason with him and point out the many flaws and unfairness of his new rules but he didn't listen of course. Regulars then got banned for saying "nitwit" and "stupid". Thank you again for demonstrating that you don't know what goes on in the OBD, Bender. Going by rumors rather than facts will cause that to happen.

Nobody is under any obligation to respect authority if said authority shows that he or she is unreasonable, unfair, hypocritical, and incompetent. Those are behaviors that Naruto and many other staff involved with the OBD have displayed. Blade can hardly be blamed for telling Naruto to GTFO. Your comparison of blindly follow the orders of the staff to adhering to the wiki articles is deeply flawed. The former is based on nothing but irrational loyalty to individuals who have shown themselves to be incapable of doing their duty. The latter is based on quantification, logic, and evidence. No double standards here. So cease the illogical comparisons, please.



> I was talking about the shit involving the mountains and rules of OBD matches. This is a different matter. This is respecting the rules of the forum as a whole.  The OBD convo didn't play nice and now you lose it.


And I'm talking about a consistent problem of yours: speaking on matters which you know little about. Then when called out on this you cower away and say you don't care. Why are you even posting then in the first place?



> So you guys wouldn't care if someone like Bioness steps in the convo thread of the OBD..
> 
> *crickets chirping*
> 
> ...


Bioness isn't a newbie nor is he some innocent person that has no clue he is wrong. He was accepted into our wiki and helped us out for a while. But then one day he started making bizarre edits that the majority of us did not approve of, stirred up edits wars, and starting preaching pedo sympathy right on our wiki on top of it. Because of this, we kicked him out.

Just like you and Spartan1337, I tried to counsel Bioness to change his inappropriate behavior but he brushed me off and wouldn't listen. 

Forgive us OBDers if we strongly prefer not to converse with posters who screw with our wiki, unhesitatingly sympathize with pedophilia, genocide, and bestiality (Bioness), promote pedophilia without shame (Yokai), wank Naruto and downplay everything else (Unknown), and/or just in general can't be taught or reasoned with to stop making awful posts.

We have no problem what so ever with newbie posters showing up in the OBD. If a new poster doesn't understand something, they can just....you know....ask us. Shit, I've personally welcomed and repped new OBD posters on multiple occasions before. We're only exclusive towards awful posters, unreasonable people, and/or degenerates. That's why I told you all those months ago to stay out of the convo thread for your own good because you refuse to educate yourself and learn how evidence and debate work in the OBD. Guess I'm just a villain to you, huh?

Rule of thumb: don't be terrible and you'll be fine in the OBD. But for whatever reason, lots of people on NF seem incapable of managing that.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 4, 2012)

I've had a nice long chat with Moogle and I'm interested in seeing where it goes so why doesn't everyone take a nice deep breath and take a step back from this thread. If it falls through feel free to continue, if it doesn't then this thread isn't needed.


----------



## Basilikos (Jul 4, 2012)

Oddly enough, I feel pretty calm actually.


----------



## Bender (Jul 4, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> I don't feel like repeating the same things ad nauseum that I've explained to you in the past in threads and over VM. You never learn from your mistakes, you never listen, you don't take correction or advice, and you can't be reasoned with to change. I've personally tried to counsel you and people like Spartan1337 but you both didn't give a damn about improving and continued to do the same old shit. And then whatever happened to you two is somehow everyone else's fault. Um, what?



*beat*

What? 

This has nothing to do with me. This involves how people are treated in general by "OBD regulars" and not a single one acknowledging their faults and instead it being pinned on their inability to be able to make many good matchmaking threads in a row.



> *Bioness isn't a newbie nor is he some innocent person that has no clue he is wrong. He was accepted into our wiki and helped us out for a while.*



Nor am I and yet I still get the shit end of the stick from you. I don't give a darn if it's because you think I'm "terrible" or etc, the OBD section regulars are not special and are given the same treatment as others.



> But then one day he started making bizarre edits that the majority of us did not approve of, stirred up edits wars, and starting preaching pedo sympathy right on our wiki on top of it. Because of this, we kicked him out.



OMG! But guess what, that's the same shit that happens in other wikis (Wikipedia, Tvtropes, etc.) merely because one person has different views than you do, does not mean they deserve to be ostracized. Make discussion threads on this crap before it is given an edit. Shit is stirred up in other parts of the forums regarding your treatment. Be glad prominent figures in OBD aren even still around despite many incidents which are caused by flamebait posts.

Also the Bioness thing...I'm not saying I give a shit about them but I certainly don't think it's cool how there are posts praising fictional characters like Amon eating lolicons and shit. On another note, some time ago my sister chastised me about celebrating the death of Osama Biin Laden but I didn't make her out to be a black sheep in my family, or a total loony. She just was pro-life and had a "messianic" outlook on people in general.




> Think about it this way: Why are the list of people I mentioned in my previous post accepted and respected posters yet you and others aren't? Simple, your behavior.




And here we go.....Quit pinning the blame on people who aren't accepted into the OBD majority and acknowledge the behavior which is the here and now. Respect authority. That's bottom line. 













> * You aren't teachable and you don't try to follow our rules of evidence and debate. *



When's the last time the OBD'ers respected the staff's authority? There is so much double standard in this logic it isn't even funny. Despite my dislike of it I've grudgingly come to accept it. However, what while we listen to your rules though you can't listen to the overall Message board's rules? You don't see anything wrong with that at all?



> Nobody is under any obligation to respect authority if said authority shows that he or she is unreasonable, unfair, hypocritical, and incompetent.



How do you expect to get anywhere in life if you don't follow the rules? Let's look at it from this POV, so I'm under fire for making a completely one-sided thread and yet its alright for people like E.S. etc. to make one if it's bashing hated characters/verse for them atm?

Ane xample:







> Those are behaviors that Naruto and many other staff involved with the OBD have displayed. Blade can hardly be blamed for telling Naruto to GTFO.



I'm sorry what? Just because you have a foul relationship with Smod Naruto it's alright to talk shit to that mod and etc? 



> Your comparison of blindly follow the orders of the staff to adhering to the wiki articles is deeply flawed. The former is based on nothing but irrational loyalty to individuals who have shown themselves to be incapable of doing their duty. The latter is based on quantification, logic, and evidence.



Pleaaase. It's hardly loyalty, I'm trying to see equality. There is none if you don't acknowledge your own faults. 




> Forgive us OBDers if we strongly prefer not to converse with posters who screw with our wiki, unhesitatingly sympathize with pedophilia, genocide, and bestiality (Bioness), promote pedophilia without shame (Yokai), wank Naruto and downplay everything else (Unknown), and/or just in general can't be taught or reasoned with to stop making awful posts.



It's pretty difficult to be lenient to the OBD if you can't do the same. Dude, I remember a while ago saying something really ignorant in the NF cafe on a whim, which was incredibly racist and yet I got a slap on the wrist and I never spoke about it with the member I offended, nor the Cafe mod who banned me. It's called leniency. Is that really so much to ask for? 





> Shit, I've personally welcomed and repped new OBD posters on multiple occasions before. We're only exclusive towards awful posters, unreasonable people, and/or degenerates.



So what you can be patient with the newbies you can't with the people you had past problems with? I had past problems with Pseudo and he was able to develop into a sensible poster and etc. Pseudo, Flow (previously Espionage) was able to better themselves and are relatively accepted into the plaza/lounge convo. 



> Guess I'm just a villain to you, huh?



Not really.
 I just find it hard to believe how you're able to be as patient with newbies and yet are unable to do the same with OBD past offenders even though members have done that with others in other sections despite their offenses.


----------



## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> No, it's very relevant actually to why the majority of the OBD is dissatisfied with mod actions.



What are you talking about? The staff actually did do something when that happened. I was banned for around 2-5 weeks. I could've gotten stuck with a perma ban but Naruko understood the situation and let me get off as long as I don't pull off any mischief like that anymore. 



Basilikos said:


> And your solution is.....what? We've tried reasoning with them before. We list the problems, offer solutions, and nothing ever gets done.
> 
> We're painted as the most hostile and bigoted section on NF while trolls, obnoxious morons, and actual bigots have been running rampant with impunity in the cafe for *YEARS* now and the staff does nothing to stop them.
> 
> ...



The solution is to have patience and cut out the repeated bashing of the staff. That stuff'll only make them dislike you all even more.

Although you have a point to an extent about the staff not doing anything about the trolls and such... Sasuke_Bateman trolls on a weekly basis and never even gets his posts deleted let alone even banned. The same goes for that guy who's named after Ben 10.


----------



## Asune (Jul 4, 2012)

So is this thing still going on???
Sigh... Bender should unlearn to type on a keyboard


----------



## Toby (Jul 4, 2012)

Those of you who are interested in getting the help of staff, put some effort into making a constructive proposal for your section. Write a new set of rules, and let us know who you want to promote as mods. Let's stop pretending that it's all entirely staff's fault for more than one second. Look at yourselves and ask what you want before blaming us for not knowing what's right for your section.

Those of you talking shit, get the fuck out of this thread. You want to talk shop? Then talk shop. But no more baseless accusations. You've got proof there's a paedo on staff? That's serious. Make a thread about it and make sure you've got a record of the post to prove it. You want a new set of rules? I'd debate that in here, or make a new thread for it in your section. But these insults are just a waste of my time to read, and they validate the opinions of staff who don't want to talk. 

I've already spoken to some of you already by PM. You know I'm serious. I want to see if your section is too. Can you handle this challenge?

TL;DR Nothing is for free. Show us what you want and we'll talk about it. Expect a reasonable response to a reasonable proposal.


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## EJ (Jul 4, 2012)

Yes sir. aye aye sir. Will make this post known sir.


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## Toby (Jul 4, 2012)

Good. I'm going to bed and I might read your input during my lunchbreak tomorrow. I've told the mods to delete all of the flaming and shit that comes in here from now on. I only want to see constructive input in here for this thread. I mean it.


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## Lord Genome (Jul 4, 2012)

Distracted said:


> Not to pick on you Thdyingbreed, cause I like you, but what you're saying there illustrates my only problem with the OBD.  A lot of members of the OBD bitch about stuff that every section has to deal with.  A dupe is annoying yes... but it's only some guy making a stupid thread in the section.  You can ignore it, report it, whatever, and wait for it to get banned.
> .



well to be fair, although this is true, most other section actually have multiple dedicated moderaters, plus with the obd being contentious in nature(debates) they are a bit more grating than someone going in the library for example and posting why neji is the strongest character or whatever dupes these days do there


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## Gunners (Jul 4, 2012)

The internet makes me chuckle in a way. 

In real life if the topic of Bruce Lee v Tyson comes up ( surprisingly quite frequently) if someone says Bruce wins I just say ''eh whatever'' after putting forward my initial argument. 

On the internet the argument is likely to absorb more minutes of my time turning nasty in the process.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 4, 2012)

Toby said:


> Those of you who are interested in getting the help of staff, put some effort into making a constructive proposal for your section. Write a new set of rules, and let us know who you want to promote as mods.


I'm gonna be honest with you, this isn't really going to work until something is done to cool everyone the fuck off. No one is going to listen while they're busy raging. Hell, you've got Blue running around trolling the staff over this.



> Let's stop pretending that it's all entirely staff's fault for more than one second.


It's not but the staff has a habit of doing ill timed things that exacerbate the problems.



> Look at yourselves and ask what you want before blaming us for not knowing what's right for your section.


An ongoing dialogue would be nice. Because right now it feels like the only time anyone actually pays attention is when one of these events pops up and that is a really bad opinion to propagate.



> I've already spoken to some of you already by PM. You know I'm serious. I want to see if your section is too. Can you handle this challenge?


Sees no PM


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## Nevermind (Jul 4, 2012)

How about trashing this thread which is full of butthurt nonsense?

Threads like this are one of the biggest things that annoys the section, so you're obviously gonna get people "not being nice" with shit like this.

And oh yeah, dupe-kun is there raging. You know, the guy that should be IP banned, but will be excused away as not possible, despite the fact that other forums can ban dynamic IPs.


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## Xiammes (Jul 4, 2012)

> And oh yeah, dupe-kun is there raging. You know, the guy that should be IP banned, but will be excused away as not possible, despite the fact that other forums can ban dynamic IPs.



Which forums have successfully done that, to my knowledge its impossible to ban dynamic IPs, you will just end up banning innocent people with the effective solution, its happened to me on a number of occasions. Went on /v/ once and I was some tripfag who was perma'd apparently, and a few other forums






I have already stated my solution for Dupekun, just lock him up in jokebattledome, he can't hurt anyone in there and he wouldn't make a new account so fast.


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## Distracted (Jul 4, 2012)

Huh, I've been busy lately. In a week or two I can come back and handle more of the day to day modding of the place again.  I'm done with negotiating for the most part though.


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## Nevermind (Jul 4, 2012)

Getting rid of the thread and banning dupe-kun right now would be a good start.


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## Es (Jul 4, 2012)

>Mods need to stop banning people for ludicrous reasons
> Mods need to learn the difference between a good debtor and a fanboy troll
> Let our convo free
>Mods need to stop trying to turn the OBD into wonderland, fucking purging regulars will kill the section and stupid threads will erupt 
>Mods need to learn the difference between shitty HST thread 12334 and a creative one
> Encourage creative threads
>Stop listening to EM's reports 
>Unban Members banned for stupid reasons as a show of good faith, CK and C Hook for example and you still haven't told anyone why Rika was banned.
> Actually listen to suggestions from longtime posters like UD, because I think he's like one of the few posters that actually still give a darn about discussing this.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 4, 2012)

Es said:


> >Mods need to stop banning people for ludicrous reasons
> > Mods need to learn the difference between a good debtor and a fanboy troll
> > Let our convo free
> >Mods need to stop trying to turn the OBD into wonderland, fucking purging regulars will kill the section and stupid threads will erupt
> ...



I agree with this in principal but this is going to have to be haggled. Neither side will fully agree with where the line should be drawn.


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## Mintaka (Jul 4, 2012)

Toby said:


> Those of you talking shit, get the fuck out of this thread. You want to talk shop? Then talk shop. But no more baseless accusations. You've got proof there's a paedo on staff? That's serious.


So then what doesn't qualify as serious?  I'd hate to waste your time after all.


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## Distracted (Jul 5, 2012)

Lina Inverse said:


> I love how there's all this talk about doing shit and whatnot and yet a thread that is basically about bawwwing and butthurt made by a dupe is still open
> 
> yeup, real nice



Hey, I said I'd be back in a week or two.  Plus it's the 4th of July and you guys posted that request just as I went to go light off some fireworks.

you guys should learn to ignore trolls.


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## Es (Jul 5, 2012)

Lina Inverse said:


> you and your fireworks
> 
> as for ignoring trolls, it can get old after a while



Especially when they get away with idiocy to outright flaming when their argument is refuted. As a result they get flamed back by regulars and they get a lesser penalty then a regular debating an idiot who looses their temper.  You guys act like the OBD is hostile to new posters when they're hostile to idiocy, which isn't a bad thing at all.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 5, 2012)

Bender said:


> the OBD section regulars are not special and are given the same treatment as others.









You were saying?


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## Nevermind (Jul 5, 2012)

Or how about that time when Vermillion Kin said that if he was really mad he'd stab you in his sleep?


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 5, 2012)

Toby said:


> Those of you who are interested in getting the help of staff, put some effort into making a constructive proposal for your section. Write a new set of rules, and let us know who you want to promote as mods. Let's stop pretending that it's all entirely staff's fault for more than one second. Look at yourselves and ask what you want before blaming us for not knowing what's right for your section.



And we've been doing this since the first thread I've made in this section with nothing happening in the process. Nothing but a bunch of broken promises and talks of bringing back the OBD convo with no dice

So stop acting like the staff is actually going to do something other than talk about it



Toby said:


> Those of you talking shit, get the fuck out of this thread. You want to talk shop? Then talk shop.



We've been talking shop since the first fucking suggestion thread

What are you talking about



Toby said:


> Make a thread about it and make sure you've got a record of the post to prove it. You want a new set of rules? I'd debate that in here, or make a new thread for it in your section. But these insults are just a waste of my time to read, and they validate the opinions of staff who don't want to talk.



So in other words

The mods are scared to talk brass tax 

Gotcha 



Toby said:


> I've already spoken to some of you already by PM. You know I'm serious. I want to see if your section is too. Can you handle this challenge?



>Mods
>Serious

gamelwithchips.gif



Toby said:


> Expect a reasonable response to a reasonable proposal.



And 30 pages later

blub blub blub


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## Jeroen (Jul 5, 2012)

Es said:


> Especially when they get away with idiocy to outright flaming when *their argument is refuted*. As a result they *get flamed back by regulars* and they get a lesser penalty then a regular debating an idiot who looses their temper.



You're supposed to ignore trolls, not feed them. 



> You guys act like the OBD is hostile to new posters when they're hostile to idiocy, which isn't a bad thing at all.



Perhaps you should, you know, try not to be hostile at all. 
Chances are that that will be more liked by mods than being hostile for, arguably, good reasons.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

I'm a bit sleep deprived right now but I'm gonna give somewhat simplified versions of what I feel the most productive method to proceed is.

1) A dialogue needs to be established. To do this I recommend picking someone to speak on your (the staff) behalf to reach whatever goal you hope to attain from all this. This is important because not having a single voice speaking for you will lead to people running around talking to different people getting conflicting stories. The person should be picked because we really don't need a repeat of the Blue incident.

2) This person needs to provide the section with a positive goal to work towards, something like explaining exactly what you don't want to happen in the convo and offering it back on the terms that said activity stops. Letting the negativity fester the way it has only succeeds in allowing it to feed into itself until we get one of these events at which point everyone flips out, nothing gets done, and we loop around again in 6 months or so. Doing what I have outlined OTOH hopefully opens the door to actual communication between both sides and if all goes well an equitable resolution for all parties involved. 

For the life of me I cannot understand why I am having to make such suggestions because this seems like common sense to me but whatever. Further ideas should come when I'm not half asleep and distracted by a game.


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## Judas (Jul 5, 2012)

Toby said:


> Those of you who are interested in getting the help of staff, put some effort into making a constructive proposal for your section. Write a new set of rules, and let us know who you want to promote as mods. Let's stop pretending that it's all entirely staff's fault for more than one second. Look at yourselves and ask what you want before blaming us for not knowing what's right for your section.



So what happened with ?


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## DestinyDestroyer (Jul 5, 2012)

Spartan, I cannot believe you don't understand something as simple as this. The whole reason why we mock the staff is because they're doing things the wrong way. Banning the good people (D.E, ShikiYakumo and Blade being good examples) and supporting the idiots in this forum


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## Toby (Jul 5, 2012)

Like I said, I'm just gonna outright delete everything that's insulting or general non-constructive crap. You want to whine? DO it in another thread. If you have a legitimate proposal to deal with a grievance, spell it out in here. I'll listen. But I'm not your trash-can recepticle that will waste my time on hearing the same old ante. 

I made it clear that I am here to help, not to insult or ignore you. If you don't believe me, get out of this thread.



Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I'm gonna be honest with you, this isn't really going to work until something is done to cool everyone the fuck off. No one is going to listen while they're busy raging. Hell, you've got Blue running around trolling the staff over this.
> 
> It's not but the staff has a habit of doing ill timed things that exacerbate the problems.
> 
> ...



I understand your points. All I will say is this: I am going to mod this thread and only this thread for a while, and hopefully get someone to join in on the talks with a staff perspective. Andy is my preferred candidate since you guys already have a rapport with him. Everything that happens outside of this thread: Beyond my control. I take 0 responsibility for it.

So that dialogue can be in here, but I repeat my "demands": You guys, the OBD, must write a specific, not general! proposal on how to fix your section. These general comments "stop being useless"? I'm going to just delete all of that. All of it. If you don't get specific in here, I will close the thread too. My limit for bothering to do this is pretty high, but if there isn't a combined effort from the section to participate in here, there's nothing I can do for you. 

So to summarize: I think you guys need to get serious about writing a new set of section-rules, and if you want new mods, then you must give me names, credentials, and reasons for hiring them. I'm not gonna lie. I think the best shot you guys have here is to make a new set of section-rules, and over time, if they work, you can get new mods who believe in them, and have a better relationship with the regulars.

Nothing about this is easy. But try to be serious in here. That's all I ask.



Nevermind said:


> How about trashing this thread which is full of butthurt nonsense?
> 
> Threads like this are one of the biggest things that annoys the section, so you're obviously gonna get people "not being nice" with shit like this.
> 
> And oh yeah, dupe-kun is there raging. You know, the guy that should be IP banned, but will be excused away as not possible, despite the fact that other forums can ban dynamic IPs.



I'll leave that to the OBD mod. Why is this a problem? Because he's a dupe? Yeah I want dupes banned. I don't have the time to mod your section though. I'd raise THAT issue with the current OBD mods.



Es said:


> >Mods need to stop banning people for ludicrous reasons
> > Mods need to learn the difference between a good debtor and a fanboy troll
> > Let our convo free
> >Mods need to stop trying to turn the OBD into wonderland, fucking purging regulars will kill the section and stupid threads will erupt
> ...



Good. If you want this to change however, you need to tell us specifically what you'd do differently. THere's obviously a completely different sense of right and wrong in staff opinion and your opinion. That's why I talked about making new rules. If you'll link me to the suggestions you've made in the past, I'd be grateful about it. I don't know where the look for them otherwise.



Mintaka said:


> So then what doesn't qualify as serious?  I'd hate to waste your time after all.



A specific proposal. For example:

"proposed new rule: members who post a debate that's been done before without searching are given a strike. After 2-3 strikes, said member can be banned for 1 day to a week if he does not search through OBD histor"

"proposed new rule: members who post a ridiculously imbalanced matchup can be banned on suspicion that they are a troll. An overpowered matchup is defined as X in the OBD rules, see rule Y"

etc.

A lot of you want dupes and trolls banned. I get it. But not all of us mods get WHY, besides being dupes, these guys need to be banned. You say "their threads are terrible" but we don't even know what sort of scale you're using to measure "terrible". Get the lingo and definitions down on paper and we've got something to work on.



Judas said:


> So what happened with ?



What happened? I got the interpretation that you wanted trolls banned. I then proposed that you guys explain what a troll in your section is, and help write new section-rules. I received 0 specific proposals on how to address this concern. 

Since I personally took action and contacted a few regulars by PM however, I have received a few ideas, and I'm gonna share them here.



Darth Nihilus said:


> And we've been doing this since the first thread I've made in this section with nothing happening in the process. Nothing but a bunch of broken promises and *talks of bringing back the OBD convo with no dice*
> 
> *So stop acting like the staff is actually going to do something other than talk about it*
> 
> ...



Like I said, take this seriously or don't post here. I think you want a solution and I'm willing to help you get it, but to say that the OBD made a specific set of recommendations to staff to follw is, AS FAR AS I HAVE SEEN, false.

So if you have laid out how to improve your section somewhere, link me up. 

I can't learn anything about OBD'ers that would help resolve the conflict when you post shit like this:



Darth Nihilus said:


> Gotcha
> 
> >Mods
> >Serious
> ...



and I'm not going to tolerate it in this thread. So make a specific proposal in this thread, please.

If this will help speed things up, I can try to make staff write a similar proposal, and then we can negotiate. But it's up to you. I either put 0 effort into this, or 100. It all depends on the quality of specific proposals I see in here for the coming 2 weeks. That's plenty of time to make great proposals.

*TO feed you this information with a silver spoon: I specifically requested powers to ONLY mod this thread. This is the only place I'll be besides PMs for the remainder of the summer. You want a staffmembers' attention? It's here. Make good use of it. All my attention is on this thread, so please participate. If you don't, then don't be surprised if staff propose things that you don't like.*


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## EJ (Jul 5, 2012)

Toby since you are the current mod who is trying to crush problems, could you extend a hand if I send you a PM? I will show you evidence. It has nothing to do with OBD, well mostly what I mentioned earlier.


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## Toby (Jul 5, 2012)

Here's one idea I'd like to hear your opinions on. What do you think of the Viz forum's debate rules for their OBD-like section?



EDIT: Flow, if this has nothing to do with OBD then I doubt I know what it's about. Feel free to send me a PM. I'll treat it as confidential and recommend you a staff-member to talk to if I can't be of use.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

Cliff notes version of things I'd like to see:

Insta section ban for spite threads, length to be determined

Some method to curtail fanboyism with bans for the more excessive and annoying kind (Phenom, Sentry etc) This lot is hugely disruptive and massively annoying, you can't honestly tell me they aren't troll pretending to be idiots. Good news is they aren't very common

Punishments being levied by intent, no reason someone should be able to walk into the section and bait someone just to get a one day ban when the person that got baited gets a month long ban

The rules spelled out in no uncertain terms for the sake of consistent modding, when opinion gets thrown into the mix things start going south

Some way of dealing with the modding deadzone from like 11am to 2am eastern time, this is when our dupes really like to hit

A few more mods in general would be nice but I don't feel anyone I could suggest would be taken seriously at the very least until all this is resolved. Let's face it, we're not exactly "nice" to the staff and no one wants to work with someone that hates them.

I'll probably think of more stuff later.


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## Toby (Jul 5, 2012)

Ok, a few questions for your post Deathsaurer:

1 What is a spite thread? Define it for me please. To use a reddit-term: Explain Like I'm Five
2 Intent-based punishment: We often have big angry debates about this in HR becuase we disagree on members' intent. I don't know how we can know a member's intent unless they are saying something blatantly against the rules. How would you go about this?
3 More mods? I doubt we can hire new ones at the moment, but I can ask if more people than Andy are willing to chip in

EDIT: Also, please check out the Viz forum rules. What changes, if any, would you make to them?


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

A spite thread is basically someone getting pissed about a match up against one of their favorite fictions so to get even they make a one-sided match up using one of the favorite fictions of the person that made the previous thread out of spite. In short it's trolling

The incidents I have in mind are totally blatant with the person involved coming into the section and instantly insulting people trying to provoke them. If it is a situation where it is truely impossible to tell I have no issue with that, but the blatantly obvious ones are the ones that get to me


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## Toby (Jul 5, 2012)

EDIT: Great, Deathsaurer. I am taking the bus home now. When I get back I'll start typing up a draft rule and then I want OBD regulars to comment on the idea, phrasing, etc.

Also, I will be gone from Sunday morning till Friday evening this upcoming week. I can add another week onto this, so there'd be a 3 week period for you guys to talk about a specific new set of rules, a timeline to adopt them, criteria for picking mods, etc.

That means I'm here until Saturday at midnight central European time, then I will ask Andy and somebody else to look after the thread while I'm gone. I'll be back Friday next week to continue modding this place, and once the following 2 weeks are over, I give my powers back. This is all a show of my intent to help you, and only you. If you're not convinced, then I give up, and you're left with the other staffmembers. I say this thread is your best gamble. Since the last one went tits up due to the lack of standards expected from both sides, I'm being strict for this thread. (That's the point of it being intense and specific.)


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## Gunners (Jul 5, 2012)

Is it possible for the thread started to color tag their threads. 

If it is yellow then the thread could be expected to take a lighthearted tone. Minimal-no evidence should be expected neither should insults. 

If it is orange, a certain standard should be expected ( what I don't know or really care), that being said it shouldn't be incredibly formal and the insults should only be mild almost in the realm of banter. 

If it is red then it should be highly formal and greater leniency regarding insults if someone falls short of the expectations. 
____

Dealing with things in that manner makes it easier to establish trolling in the sense that the member would be deliberately falling short of the expected standards. It also makes it easier to give the newer member the benefit of the doubt in threads where a lower standard is expected, if you cannot deal with what you see as stupidity then avoid the thread.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 5, 2012)

Toby said:


> Here's one idea I'd like to hear your opinions on. What do you think of the Viz forum's debate rules for their OBD-like section?



hmmm, looks similar to what we already have

and this is a good idea on what to expect when things get heated:



> Civility: While we encouraged gentlemanly debating understand that VS debating is abrasive and competitive by nature and that what might appear to be harsh and mean may not actually be a personal attack but deliberate response without any malice behind it: Essentially use your judgment to determine what is what before reporting it to the staff, if someone really is going too far with you we?ll deal with it.



with that in mind, I'd say getting banned for multiple months for calling someone an idiot would be uncalled for, for example


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## Crimson King (Jul 5, 2012)

Here's a suggestion. Mod someone that posts in the OBD and knows how everything goes. Comic Book Guy was a good mod, since he knew how everything went. Greed was not, since he shows clear bias in everything and is always away screwing with his chickens.

By getting a mod that knows the OBD, naruto thread #3423423 will get stopped at page 1 instead of getting dragged on for 50 pages.

Also, get a mod that isn't biased as fuck. Meaning Greed needs to be booted for someone else. He sucks at being a mod and has grudges against members in the OBD.

Having someone who knows the OBD as a mod also means they'll recognize any trolls and dupes that pop up. That was we won't have to wait a week for them to get banned.


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## dream (Jul 5, 2012)

Gunners said:


> Is it possible for the thread started to color tag their threads.
> 
> If it is yellow then the thread could be expected to take a lighthearted tone. Minimal-no evidence should be expected neither should insults.
> 
> ...



If by color tagging you mean changing the color of the thread title for various threads I don't think that such a thing might be possible without a modification though I could be wrong in this matter.  In any case that would be a silly thing to do and would end up being annoying.  A much better thing to do would be to create a few thread prefixes like the Happy Birthday thread prefix in the Konoha Lounge.  One such prefix could be a 'Formal Debate' prefix.

Personally, I'm not too fond of this idea.


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## Toby (Jul 5, 2012)

First, browsing nf on a smartphone is awful. My reply will be short but not intentionally curt.

Gunners, I think that's a good idea. Op should always be clear about these things.

Crimson, aren't there any changes you'd make? As for ban length, as long as a user only has offenses in one section, the section mods have in theory total freedom to scale this member's bans as they see fit.

Ck, be specific. Who would you mod and why them? 

Spooderman, what's your real accountname.


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## Crimson King (Jul 5, 2012)

Toby said:


> Crimson, aren't there any changes you'd make? As for ban length, as long as a user only has offenses in one section, the section mods have in theory total freedom to scale this member's bans as they see fit.



One change that would help is knowing who and when to permaban someone from the OBD. If it's a regular and all they've done is flame trolls and dupes, don't permaban them just because they've done it more than once. Extend the ban length, but don't make it something ridiculous. And if it's an obvious troll or dupe doing the flaming, then ban them longer.

This also goes back to having an OBD mod that knows the OBD. Said mod would be able to tell who those trolls and dupes are easily.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 5, 2012)

More mods of the same kind as willyreveb would be a good start

He has done well whenever he has been active (Banning dupes, locking threads, letting "fun" threads go on with a headsup on when its getting locked etc.)


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

Gunners said:


> Is it possible for the thread started to color tag their threads.
> 
> If it is yellow then the thread could be expected to take a lighthearted tone. Minimal-no evidence should be expected neither should insults.
> 
> ...




I... actually like this idea


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## Basilikos (Jul 5, 2012)

^Same here.


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## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> He has done well whenever he has been active (Banning dupes, locking threads, letting "fun" threads go on with a headsup on when its getting locked etc.)



Willyvereb is not the ideal perfect mod you make him out to be. For one he keeps spite threads open which insult current popular verses. Yeah, that's a real job well done.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

There is no such thing as an ideal perfect mod  Trying to find a balance between hard ass and lenient is not easy.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

spooderman said:


> Like I said. The color thing works, but someone could take advantage.



Clearly if someone is making a huge slew of lopsided threads under the pretense of them being jokes they're abusing the system. Regardless this could solve a lot of problems that currently exist.


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## Toby (Jul 5, 2012)

Provided people don't start a fight I'm hearing everyone out. As I'm on my phone atm I can't read that link bender posted. I'll read it when I get home. People need to keep this specific. I get that people don't like spute threads but aren't they kind if inevitable?


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 5, 2012)

Bender said:


> Willyvereb is not the ideal perfect mod you make him out to be. For one he keeps spite threads open which insult current popular verses. Yeah, that's a real job well done.



Didnt suggest he was perfect

And he hasnt been as active as he used to lately


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

Toby said:


> Provided people don't start a fight I'm hearing everyone out. As I'm on my phone atm I can't read that link bender posted. I'll read it when I get home. People need to keep this specific. I get that people don't like spute threads but aren't they kind if inevitable?



I'd like to hope not, it's really unpleasant when two people are hostile towards one another in such a way. It gets worse when groups of people are involved. This is one area I have no issue being super harsh with.


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## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> There is no such thing as an ideal perfect mod



It's funny that you say that because you're making out Willy to be just that. There are still just as much complaints about him from me and Zell, as there are about Greed from OBD regulars. 

Also even though I I-listed this person I will regrettably quote this:



> >Mods need to stop banning people for ludicrous reasons


By this definition you mean talking shit to a mod and telling him to "GTFO" your convo no? 

Toby I know we have our differences and whatever, but you can't seriously think that that is a reasonable rule to make. As I mentioned earlier in the thread in a convo thread not to long ago Blade talked shit to Naruto when he was explaining the reason for a new rule for the OBD. Blade being belligerent didn't let up at all and continued to talk trash. And as expected he ended up being banned for it.



> > Mods need to learn the difference between a good debtor and a fanboy troll



Here's what the mods are familiar with: Belligerence, and ignorant behavior. Not all the mods are familiar with the activities, and rules of the OBD. Quoting a poster in this thread, maybe instead of being hostile towards people we can..not be hostile at all?



> > Let our convo free



If we can lose the hostility, and rampant flamebaiting (bringing the post of other people of certain threads in the OBD) then I'm sure it will be able to be opened again.



> >Mods need to stop trying to turn the OBD into wonderland,



The OBD is a free section, there is no prerequisites like you need to be 18 or shit like for the Konoha Bathhouse. If that's a thing then you might as well forget ever seeing the OBD convo or OBD section ever again.



> fucking purging regulars will kill the section and stupid threads will erupt



Hostility...gone. Then you won't people like Kurou, Blade, etc be banned again.



> >Mods need to learn the difference between shitty HST thread 12334 and a creative one



So spite threads like the ones I quoted are all fine?




> Trying to find a balance between hard ass and lenient is not easy.



Actually it is. You're not making it easy. Stop treating the authorities like shit and then you'll make progress. You honestly think Nauto, Naruko, Greed or any of them are going to show you the respect you're asking for if they see you talking shit about them in the convo? I know that say for example,  I was a police officer and you were reporting losing something I wouldn't want to show you an iota of generosity or kindness if you talked about me like that. 



> ... postcount=280



I'm not sure about Zengetto, but Gomu has been banned plenty of times for outrageous behavior.  Also if you're referring to Gomu saying like "that retarded ass" he's not specifically calling Fluttershy retarded. He's talking about the evidence. 



> Sigh... Bender should unlearn to type on a keyboard



See this is the hostile attitude I was talking about. You're not getting anything back if you're going to be acting like that.

As said before:
MY man Waffles said:


			
				Mr. Waffles said:
			
		

> You're supposed to ignore trolls, not feed them.



Quoting their posts in the convo and putting them up on the spot is why we see shitstorms develop.



spooderman said:


> 'Sides Bender, what was the point of that example?
> 
> It got closed anyway.



It took a damn long while to be closed is what I'm saying. The same complaint that is made of Greed when it comes to OBD threads being closed.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

I don't recall saying anything about willy in this thread  I'm not a particularly big fan of the way he just likes to lurk around. I'd like all the OBD mods to be more proactive. Distracted is the closest thing to a "perfect mod" I have seen.


----------



## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I don't recall saying anything about willy in this thread  I'm not a particularly big fan of the way he just likes to lurk around.





> I'd like all the OBD mods to be more proactive. Distracted is the closest thing to a "perfect mod" I have seen.




Here's the main point I'm getting concerning about asking more mods to be active: They all lives. This is probably one of the shittiest times of the economy world wide and everyone needs a freaking job, or worry about their education. You can't expect them to always be on. However, when they are on it is expected that they close the spite thread, mis-matched thread that is opened, or take care of the person that is being unnecessarily hostile.  

As for people in the OBD you're not too fond of. That's kind of fucked up no. I don't know if any of you were popular in school or whatever but remember that time when their were "lock outs" and etc and you weren't allowed in? That's kind of a mirror of OBD in regards to members they're not fond of. And it's fucking ridiculous. That's another reason why mods have daggers in their eyes if they're looking at the OBD.


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## Basilikos (Jul 5, 2012)

Bender, you keep bringing up the same points ad nauseum that I already debunked on page 7.

It wold be much more productive for everyone if only people that know what they are talking about contribute to this thread.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

You can't honestly suggest I have to like everyone


----------



## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> Bender, you keep bringing up the same points ad nauseum that I already debunked on page 7.
> 
> It wold be much more productive for everyone if only people that know what they are talking about contribute to this thread.



How about the ones I responded to on page 8 which you didn't respond to?

Here are few quotes from the page 8 post of mine:



> When's the last time the OBD'ers respected the staff's authority? There is so much double standard in this logic it isn't even funny. Despite my dislike of it I've grudgingly come to accept it. However, what while we listen to your rules though you can't listen to the overall Message board's rules? You don't see anything wrong with that at all?





> How do you expect to get anywhere in life if you don't follow the rules? Let's look at it from this POV, so I'm under fire for making a completely one-sided thread and yet its alright for people like E.S. etc. to make one if it's bashing hated characters/verse for them atm?






> Forgive us OBDers if we strongly prefer not to converse with posters who screw with our wiki, unhesitatingly sympathize with pedophilia, genocide, and bestiality (Bioness), promote pedophilia without shame (Yokai), wank Naruto and downplay everything else (Unknown), and/or just in general can't be taught or reasoned with to stop making awful posts.



As Waffles said:


			
				Mr. Waffles said:
			
		

> Perhaps you should, you know, try not to be hostile at all.
> Chances are that that will be more liked by mods than being hostile for, arguably, good reasons.


----------



## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> You can't honestly suggest I have to like everyone



I never said that. I'm saying you can't be hostile to people you don't like. To the OBD, those people they're hostile to are the SMODS, Naruto, Naruko, also the OBD mods, Greed, Xellos, Bioness, Unknown, Spartan. I'm saying you have to show them some degree of respect.


----------



## Basilikos (Jul 5, 2012)

*@Bender:
*
Because your response failed to address the reality check my post provided you, Bender. All you've done is ignore what I've said and endlessly harped on about "OBDers are mean for no reason!" You're exhibiting the same behavior here as you do in the OBD, you don't listen or actually tackle what the other person said. For that reason I'm done arguing with you since I don't feel like going in circles with you forever.




Those are my posts which you haven't properly responded to yet.

*@Toby et al:*

As for suggestions on fixing the section, I think the number of mods we should have should be 4-5 chosen from fairly active OBDers who understand the section and preferably live in different time zones.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

I'll say it right now, I will never respect Naruto nor Id or Haterade. They have all done things that preclude that from ever happening. Humorously I don't get hostile with Id most of the time. I pick on Greed and Xelloss the same way we pick on EM, I cannot speak for anyone else in this regard. Sure, I call them out when I feel they aren't being active enough but I call willy out on the things he does I have issue with.


----------



## Reznor (Jul 5, 2012)

I don't see why posting a bad argument or one that can't be properly backed up should be bannable. If their argument is bad and they don't accept your counter, move on. OBD puts too much emphasis on "winning" IMO, and this manifests itself as anger when met with an unmovable target.

I understand that your priorities are different than the forum priorities. We should try to accommodate them when possible - but not when they are oppose to the forum priorities. Establishing such a status quo is one of those kinds of things. (Which I also don't see why it's something the OBD would want either... a consensus eliminates the need for any such threads.)





> _Is it possible for the thread started to color tag their threads.
> 
> If it is yellow then the thread could be expected to take a lighthearted  tone. Minimal-no evidence should be expected neither should insults.
> 
> ...


 This might be possible. I can look into it. 
At the very least, doing this with thread tags could accomplish this task.


----------



## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

@Basilikos

DUDE

I responded to that post:



@Spooderman

How do those people not deserve any respect? Please enlighten me. Even if not respect  civility is required to be shown to them as well as the mods. If not like I said the convo nor the OBD hounding won't stop.


----------



## Toby (Jul 5, 2012)

Gonna read the last few posts and Benders' link. Hang on. I'd rather that you keep your complaint regarding Willy in a separate SCR thread, Bender. That being said, I do respect your opinion. But let's not get hung up on one thread. Keep the discussion moving forward. I'll edit this post when I've caught up with some messages. 

In the meanwhile, Adee proposed the following



> Why don't you guys put up a thread in the OBD, like the one in the FC section where users request mod actions, but here the scope will be larger and users can request things like banning, thread closing, etc as well. This may help consolidate things, make them transparent and a good way to gauge what the OBD'ers want exactly by going through the thread?


----------



## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

Reznor said:


> I don't see why posting a bad argument or one that can't be properly backed up should be bannable. If their argument is bad and they don't accept your counter, move on. OBD puts too much emphasis on "winning" IMO, and this manifests itself as anger when met with an unmovable target.





> I understand that your priorities are different than the forum priorities. We should try to accommodate them when possible - but not when they are oppose to the forum priorities.



Exactly. How the heck does the OBD expect us to meet their expectations when they're complete different than the forums? This is Naruto forums, not OBD forums. The OBD's have different ideals it doesn't change the fact they're apart of the general forums.



> I'll say it right now, I will never respect Naruto nor Id or Haterade. They have all done things that preclude that from ever happening. Humorously I don't get hostile with Id most of the time.



At least show some degree of civility. As I said in the other post: If that isn't possible I don't see the mods, or Smods ever providing the service that the OBD ask for.


----------



## Lord Genome (Jul 5, 2012)

Reznor said:


> I don't see why posting a bad argument or one that can't be properly backed up should be bannable. If their argument is bad and they don't accept your counter, move on. OBD puts too much emphasis on "winning" IMO, and this manifests itself as anger when met with an unmovable target.



on this topic, the problem that i have with it is that it isnt just a one thread thing. being a debate section, the point is to provide evidence and prove why your right, where as some people refuse to make a concession and when that happens it just escalates, since said poster will then make the same argument in another thread and repeat the cycle.

maybe have a "debate" moderator? someone who is knowledgeable in debate etiquette who can make a ruling when someone is being unreasonable and give a warning or something to that effect. they wouldnt have any further mod responsibilities other than that, dont even need to actually be a mod.  i have no idea how feasible it would be though, maybe easier if the color tag thing is implemented(with the moderator having only to look through the "serious" debate threads)


----------



## Distracted (Jul 5, 2012)

@Genome

While that would be nice, there are _very_ few people who could qualify for such a position, and there is no way they'd have the activity level required to enforce it.

I would never say that the mods have been perfect, nor would I say that there aren't things we can do.  But the OBD does need to learn to help itself.  As Reznor said, learn to ignore people or just agree to disagree.


----------



## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

I'm liking the ideas in this thread.



@Distracted




> I would never say that the mods have been perfect, nor would I say that there aren't things we can do.  But the OBD does need to learn to help itself.  As Reznor said, learn to ignore people or just agree to disagree.



Agreed. And as Mr. Waffles said, ignore people who you feel are trolling the OBD, and avoid bringing them into your convo thread. Just report the user to the mods before the situation gets any messier. 

The tags thing seems possible though no? Whether it's able to be implemented or not, before certain threads are made at least put at the top whether it's a serious thread or a joke thread. If they aren't then it'll be taken as a spite thread and a warning should be given to that user or a ban. Only 2 warnings are given (whatever you think).


----------



## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

spooderman said:


> It isn't the fact that people don't ignore idiots. It's the fact that if they do, the idiots just keep going and going until they do it to the point of irritation.



Are you reporting the mods like supposed to? The situation won't fix itself if that person is mocked to death.




> Often good debates are ruined by pages and pages of people doing that stuff.


 
A warning system can be implemented then if that person isn't able to back up their logic with evidence. 3 Warnings and then that person is booted from the thread. If they come back then they'll be banned. Sounds good to me. And there can be a thread where you put requests to mods to notify them of the situations in match made threads.


----------



## Toby (Jul 5, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> *@Toby et al:*
> 
> As for suggestions on fixing the section, I think the number of mods we should have should be 4-5 chosen from fairly active OBDers who understand the section and preferably live in different time zones.



I keep hearing this and I don't disagree that you should have more mods, but adding new ones right now is not going to happen because most staff oppose it. I think you need to make section-rules first, and prove that you can stick to them. At the moment staff don't think you guys behave according to any rules but your own. I believe that you guys can come up with a set of rules that work for OBD and this forum as a whole. There's room for separate OBD-rules, of course.

The Viz rules for example. I am completely okay with those. I would echo what Reznor has already said about not going too far at a member who "won't comply" with your version of truth. Winning is only one aspect of debating. Fun should be the priority. 

Out of interest I'll repeat my question: Who do you want as section-mods, what qualifications do they have and why should we consider them as "good" candidates? I noticed you want them in different timezones. Think about that too.




Distracted said:


> @Genome
> 
> While that would be nice, there are _very_ few people who could qualify for such a position, and there is no way they'd have the activity level required to enforce it.
> 
> I would never say that the mods have been perfect, nor would I say that there aren't things we can do.  But the OBD does need to learn to help itself.  As Reznor said, learn to ignore people or just agree to disagree.



This too. You WILL have people who disagree in your section. I know some of you think of the Cafe as a hivemind. People think the same of the OBD. It's not true in either case.




edlaB said:


> I am Blade. Yeah i made another dupe.
> 
> This time i want to post my list of rules for the OBD.
> 
> ...



I'll excuse your dupe for the purpose of posting in this thread. I'd rather you don't post elsewhere.

Why ban HST threads specifically? Are you talking about matches you've already had in OBD? Is there one source that records all of them? 

Obviously some debates will be different, even if they are on the same topic. You can allow a new one every now and then, and number them as debate 1, 2, 3 etc. Obviously doing the same topic more than twice a year gets annoying.

OBD convo will return at some point. I think it should be possible to bring that back, but probably in trade for something else. I'm personally hoping that if your section-friends here agree to a new set of rules, we can give you the convo back for the trial period. 

Bans: Must have rules to agree on what's right and wrong in your section

New mods: Obviously at some point, but it's not our first priority now. I know how much you guys need it but I don't think staff are willing to hire a new person right now. Like I said, I want to hear who you'd want and why. You've given me names, I'm guessing seigniorage is their advantage as they have that in common. What I need in a mod are the following:
1. A member who is respected by his peers
2. A member who calls his own out when they break the rules
3. Is fair

Obviously this mod needs seigniorage, but the other aspects are hard to find because it isn't easy to be fair to everybody.


----------



## EJ (Jul 5, 2012)

Basilikos would make a good mod for this section.


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## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

> - Ban HST threads. I know that you will not do it because 90% of the posters know only these series but at least you can limit it to 2 pages. Especially fights that have been made 100000/10 times. Its not so difficult.



Yeah, I doubt that is going to happen dude.



> - The issue with flaming. Seriously. Are you made of sugar? Did somebody's feelings are so wounded from words? And just to know we flame those who deserve it. I can name a list if you want.





> Still, are you so fragile? You got others who post pedo staff, rape fanfics, loli addiction  etc and you accuse the OBD's behavior?



I made a racist comment and I'm still allowed in the cafe without getting my ass skewered and held on a platter. So by that logic I shouldn't be able to step in the cafe? Civility,respect, and tolerance. CRT. Remember that. That's the must for all sections on the forums. Can't be done no way in hell are you going to get the enlightenment in the OBD you so crave.



> - Bring the OBD convo. If you ask every OBDer the convo was the best thing from the section. No need to analyze it more.



No more flamebait posts, no mocking the people who troll threads, or aren't abel to provide a satisfactory argument (simple alert the mods and let them handle it).



> - Section ban or perm those who really deserve it. Yeah, how many times several OBDers posted evidence and you have ignore it? Don't blame the OBD. Its your job.



..... That isn't happening. If a person is going to be belligerent, ignorant,post inflammatory remarks to people who have been unable to back up their argument, mock them in the convo then they're just as ban-worthy as the people they're talkinga bout.



> - New mods. I will say it again. Most members have nominated posters like Gig, Darth Nihilus, Kaiser Wombat and Emperor Joker.



Darth Nihilus-Big no, he doesn't respect authority or the union of command of the forums, and posts as much inflammatory messages as the next person.

Gig-Don't know about him.

Kaiser Wombat-Maybe

Emperor Joke- Maybe




> Naruto? Hahahaha. Naruko? Double HAHAHAHAHA. Distracted wasn't good either even though he made some tries.



Distracted is an excellent mod.



> I expect someone to enforce the rules properly and listen even suggestions from the OBD members that might help the section when he is active.



A mod who listens to suggestions from OBD members and non-OBD members. Not just OBD'ers. It needs to be an even street.


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## EJ (Jul 5, 2012)

Bender, I'm curios. Why do you want to contribute to this section anymore?


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## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

@Toby

Honestly, I nominate you for OBD debate manager more than anyone.  

1. You're an expert on debating seeing as how you have authority in the cafe/debate section

2. You're familiar with some figures in the OBD

Also Distracted more than worth of still keeping his position in the OBD. I respect his political debating expertise in the NF cafe, as do others.

As I said before implement a 3 warning for serious threads in the OBD when it comes to backing up evidence.


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## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

Flow said:


> Bender, I'm curios. Why do you want to contribute to this section anymore?



Because I want my friends, who I talk to on my member list to stop complaining about the problems to me. There's Supersaiyaman, Gomu, etc. I could just ignore them when they talk about it but I want to help them out since I'm their pals. 

 I could go to other forums and debate about matches and etc, but seeing as how I'm so frequenting this forum, I find myself posting threads here more often than other places like Comicvine, Anime Vice. From my experience there, there isn't that much hostility, etc towards mods figures I want to help and try to shape the OBD section for the better so I can have honor of proclaiming my membership there.


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## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

Flow said:


> I've read all of your post in this thread. And it seems as though you don't want to admit you're wrong, or that you are unwilling to listen to other users.



I'm willing to listen to others, however some explanations by OBD'ers are flawed and their justification of "flaming" being alright is inane.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

I'd also like to see a two week grace period between when a new ability is revealed and when it can actually be used so we don't get thread after thread of a topic we don't even know the limits of.



Hopefully avoiding nonsense like this occurring again.

I'd also like to say I personally don't want to exile people. I'd love for everyone that wants to to actually enjoy the OBD. But it cannot carry on unstructured the way it has. I do believe Gunner's idea could go a long way to resolving everyone's complaints and make the section more open to new comers provided it is actually given a chance. At the end of the day I just don't want to walk into 5 different threads and get annoyed every single time after a long day of dealing with annoying people IRL. It's simply impractical to think anyone can have that level of patients especially after that BS with the strike system running the Smods off for years. I'm probably not going to be agreed with by everyone and I really don't care because it's perfectly clear neither side has all the answers and we need to work together to fix this mess.


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## Xelloss (Jul 5, 2012)

edlaB said:


> I am Blade. Yeah i made another dupe.
> 
> This time i want to post my list of rules for the OBD.
> 
> ...



This won't happen but I do agree that make a subsection for HST + Fairy Tail would be good, we already lock them on 4 page rule (well I no longer can).

And most regulars won't post unless is to..."make a remark". 



> - The issue with flaming. Seriously. Are you made of sugar? Did somebody's feelings are so wounded from words? And just to know we flame those who deserve it. I can name a list if you want. Still, are you so fragile? You got others who post pedo staff, rape fanfics, loli addiction  etc and you accuse the OBD's behavior?



Is a free public forum, so long it stay like this, it would be subject to the general rules of the forum, just having a "loli" picture isn't enough to brand anyone as a p*d*p****, about and just because others do wrong don't excuse you to do wrong.



> - Bring the OBD convo. If you ask every OBDer the convo was the best thing from the section. No need to analyze it more.



As Toby already the mention, we did plan to bring the convo back in due time.



> - Unban good/regular members. You prefer to have dupes and trolls or other dumbfucks to post, right? Go check the results. The OBD became a dead place with repetitive fights and shitty threads that can reach even many pages. Unless you have fetish with this.



You guys didn't help the issue, and if a lot of regulars own words you want to kill the obd so you can move to another forum, debate no longer had any meaning to a lot of you, and you just claim to make stomp you have fun doing, remember what is fun to you, isn't necessary fun to others.

Same what you call a good member isn't nearly a good member for others, now let me ask you this, if we leave u out you would drop your fun matches? and if we unban you and another "bad" member like jplay request the same privilege should we allow it... I mean both of you deserve a second chance.



> - Section ban or perm those who really deserve it. Yeah, how many times several OBDers posted evidence and you have ignore it? Don't blame the OBD. Its your job.



I have perma more dupes, bad users than any other mod in the last year on the obd (sadly some of them request a second opportunity).

So tell me blade whats the difference of a deserving and no deserving person?

Because from the staff point of view both do disruptive behavior one make "regulars" have fun and annoy another group, the other annoy regulars and make other group have fun.



> - New mods. I will say it again. Most members have nominated posters like Gig, Darth Nihilus, Kaiser Wombat and Emperor Joker. Willy is good but one mod can't save the section. Greed was terrible. Xelloss followed this path too. Naruto? Hahahaha. Naruko? Double HAHAHAHAHA. Distracted wasn't good either even though he made some tries.



Tell what so good about willy (without offense to willy but he have the least active time of all the mods), Greed is terrible why? because he enforce the rules?, Naruto I won't comment he didn't take the best aproach, Naruko have help than  give her or even consider given credit. Most of the "great" actions you atribute to a mod where carried by another mod most of the times.

You guys didn't report a lot when I was active, I had to check willy VM messages to check some "reports".

Of the ones you mention 2 have been consider and I have actually present them myself to the staff.



> And to clarify i don't expect the perfect mod. I expect someone to enforce the rules properly and listen even suggestions from the OBD members that might help the section when he is active.



Basically this boil to "let us have our fun and ban those who annoy us" you need to also try to improve yourself instead of just request things.


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## Xelloss (Jul 5, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I'd also like to see a two week grace period between when a new ability is revealed and when it can actually be used so we don't get thread after thread of a topic we don't even know the limits of.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is normally requested on a thread but I do agree this as a rule would be welcome.


----------



## Crimson King (Jul 5, 2012)

Know what, on the whole unban/ban thing, why not just start over and then ban whoever trolls from now on


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

Crimson King said:


> Know what, on the whole unban/ban thing, why not just start over and then ban whoever trolls from now on



I'd certainly argue all OBD bans that occurred under the strike system should be slashed from the record simply because of how stupid that system became. That way it isn't a total restart but it does removed stuff that happened under an unfair system.


----------



## Xelloss (Jul 5, 2012)

Endless Mike did make a good proposition time ago to clean record for OBD and start a new, this is something I am willing to push forward so long theres a compromise (but bear in mind this means all people on obd ban list).


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## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

Jus throwing this out there but I contacted Willyvereb to lock this thread of SW that was a total curbstomp not to mention spite and he didn't response. So long as it's a stomp thread which involves an OBD favorite it's considered alright and doesn't need to be closed. That's the general consensus with most OBD'ers. It's interesting because the most important enforced rule is to close a thread that is a spite and curbstomp thread.

This is the thread that I called upon Willy to close:


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## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

spooderman said:


> Then....why can't they just solve the problem themselves?



Because some of the problems they're facing is one of the common OBD problems. 



> Also, the rest of your statement makes you sound like a white knight....which really doesn't help your "cause".



That was not intentional. I just hang out on Naruto forums more oftenly than other forums which is why I want a more agreeable, and suitable posting section. Dig?


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

I want spite threads gone period. It's not a healthy atmosphere to have. If you want to do a mismatch don't make a serious thread but even then don't do it all the time.


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## Toby (Jul 5, 2012)

I'm feeling tired now. I had a longass day of work and I need sleep. I will look over what has been written tomorrow at lunch again. Just to recap, I do want you to keep bringing up suggestions, but everyone should check the Viz rules and give me feedback on those.

Do you want them in the OBD? What changes, if any, would you make? 

Any other rules you'd add? I can type this up in a full set of rules but methinks a number of you are chatting on msn/skype already and you guys can write up a set of rules, and show it to us. We've got time to hash it out properly in here.


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## Xelloss (Jul 5, 2012)

And I already replay we can't ban HST, you need to turn a blind eye and ignore them.

We can make a subsection for those.

I have told you I have bring 2 of those people myself, you want a honest answer (The staff didn't consider any of those four candidates fit for the role).


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## Basilikos (Jul 5, 2012)

spooderman said:


> It isn't the fact that people don't ignore idiots. It's the fact that if they do, the idiots just keep going and going until they do it to the point of irritation. Often good debates are ruined by pages and pages of people doing that stuff.


This.

We've had to deal with dupes and trolls literally for years who clog up pages after page in threads with their asinine posts.

Everyone but the staff could see that these people were nothing but flame baiters and troublemakers. Yet they got lenient punishments while regulars got banned for calling them out on the nonsense posts and trolling.



edlaB said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I more or less agree with this.



Toby said:


> I keep hearing this and I don't disagree that you should have more mods, but adding new ones right now is not going to happen because most staff oppose it. I think you need to make section-rules first, and prove that you can stick to them. At the moment staff don't think you guys behave according to any rules but your own. I believe that you guys can come up with a set of rules that work for OBD and this forum as a whole. There's room for separate OBD-rules, of course.
> 
> The Viz rules for example. I am completely okay with those. I would echo what Reznor has already said about not going too far at a member who "won't comply" with your version of truth. Winning is only one aspect of debating. Fun should be the priority.
> 
> Out of interest I'll repeat my question: Who do you want as section-mods, what qualifications do they have and why should we consider them as "good" candidates? I noticed you want them in different timezones. Think about that too.


If it's not too much to ask, why do the staff oppose getting more mods to help out in cleaning up the section? It would make the life of everyone less hectic, OBDer and staff member alike.

There is no "your version of the truth". Either a person is arguing sensibly or they aren't. Yes, there is room for reasonable disagreement on some matters. However, Galactus VS the Power 6, for instance, is by no means a debatable topic. It just isn't. The poster saying the Power 6 wins in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is nothing but a troll in need of an immediate permaban.

Here are two mod suggestions off the top of my head:
*Emperor Joker* - Unbiased, fair, knows the section well
*KaiserWombat* - Same as above. He's also pretty active as a poster.



> You've given me names, I'm guessing seigniorage is their advantage as they have that in common. What I need in a mod are the following:
> 1. A member who is respected by his peers
> 2. A member who calls his own out when they break the rules
> 3. Is fair
> ...


I think the two I noted meet this criteria.


----------



## Xelloss (Jul 5, 2012)

spooderman said:


> Okay. Unban Blade or another member like C. Hook, Roman, or Dandy. In exchange you unban a troll as well.
> 
> But if said troll ends up trolling again like he/she used to, and gets reported by a person, regardless of whether they are a regular or not....then he/she should be reprimanded and not let go with a slap on the wrist.



It would be unban everyone, regular, no regular, troll etc.

Unless the new rules bring a effective rule, the same scaling ban system would be used, so don't hope to get rid of the troll the instant you report it.


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## Gunners (Jul 5, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> If by color tagging you mean changing the color of the thread title for various threads I don't think that such a thing might be possible without a modification though I could be wrong in this matter.  In any case that would be a silly thing to do and would end up being annoying.  A much better thing to do would be to create a few thread prefixes like the Happy Birthday thread prefix in the Konoha Lounge.  One such prefix could be a 'Formal Debate' prefix.
> 
> Personally, I'm not too fond of this idea.


Changing the color of the thread title is what I had in mind however it is not exactly central to the overall idea which is to provide a quick and efficient way of classifying threads so the creator receives the quality of arguments desired and the members know what is expected of them. 

To achieve this color tagging the thread title isn't necessary, putting a particular number word in the title, a particular/unique picture or generic paragraph would achieve the same thing.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

This isn't really being talked about in the main MSN group sadly  I'd probably be hard pressed to find and discussion at all. I'm doing it totally of my own volition presenting what I hope we can either agree on or is a reasonable compromise because neither side is walking out of this with everything they came into it wanting. Give and take is required.


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## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I want spite threads gone period.



Same.

You want to do that, put it in the Joke battledome. If you post the same type of one-sided thread three times it should be a ban. I've 2 freaking threads that dog on LOK(Legend of Korra), I'm not going to go into the specifics of it which pisses me off about it but seriously stop. I don't care what the reasoning is it's just plain messed the eff up.



			
				 edlaB said:
			
		

> 2) We suggest these 4 as mods because they can be neutral, active, effective and respected of course.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I approve of all the choices except Nihilus. I'm not saying it's about like or anything but he's spammed more threads than I can count. Also no I don't think of him as neutral in comparison to the other 3 you pointed out.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

They can't really pick and choose who gets unbanned, for the sake of fairness it would have to be everyone. And everyone will have to deal with the newly released trolls building their records back up.


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## Xelloss (Jul 5, 2012)

Before someone bring why those 4 candidates where turn down... I am not sure, I don't visit many sections and candidates are evaluated by all the staff so while you can be clean on section, it would be a different story on another.


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## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

spooderman said:


> Ummmm....how is it either one of those things you claim?



That thread I posted is a clear spite thread against the Legacy era of Star Wars. It was complained about by me and Zellaepollo and didn't see closure at all. 

And here's a quote from Fang in Willy's profile explaining his logic concerning that spite thread:



> He jumped in a Star Wars thread about Cade Skywalker/when I was bashing Legacy ie Darth Krayt (*99% of the EU fans here hate Legacy's protagonist and antagonist because their awful*) and clearly thought Cade's mother (Morrigan) was his father.


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## Crimson King (Jul 5, 2012)

I'm all for second chances. If the trolls act up again, they're gone again anyways.


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## Xelloss (Jul 5, 2012)

Well I would bring this as a important point to Toby, and also the need of another mod at least 2 is possible.

As recall I support the idea of you guys bringing down your own rules, but keep in mind to be fair that they would be enforced to everyone.


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## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> Well I would bring this as a important point to Toby, and also the need of another mod at least 2 is possible.
> 
> As recall I support the idea of you guys bringing down your own rules, but keep in mind to be fair that they would be enforced to everyone.



I'm in agreement with Emperor Joker, and Kaiser Wombat getting the job. Those two are the most fair, and unbiased people I've seen in the OBD section. When things get hairy you can have Smods Distracted, and Toby back up the enforcement of rules.

Also if possible implement my suggestion of 3 warnings for backing up evidence of an argument in a match thread. When loss of all three you're booted and get a one day ban for trolling as you're no longer able to substantiate your argument.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

I dunno if I personally like the idea of the OBD coming up with its own rules at this juncture, the way everyone is pissed off right now it'll probably come out looking a lot like the Blender. I'd prefer cooler heads if we go that route.


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## Xelloss (Jul 5, 2012)

We want to participate on building rules we can agree (we mean the staff and the obd), I am sure we won't agree on everything you bring, and you won't like all we come up but lets try to come up with something.


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## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> *I dunno if I personally like the idea of the OBD coming up with its own rules at this juncture*,



This is the entire aura that I've been absorbing each time I step into the OBD. It is it's own entity, and most of the rules coming from the OBD wiki (which I am not insulting whatsoever) most of the "trolls" have no fucking clue about. If a thread with the rules concerning the OBD is made at least pen down a few of the important need-to-knows from the OBD wiki before a thread is made.  

These are general rules that don't make OBD section any different from others:

 No flaming/personal attacks, stay on topic. 
Please avoid using personal attacks in debates. Excessive flaming will earn you a ban. Also, do not derail debates by bringing up issues that are only tangentially related

 Don't be an asshat. 
The basic rule is don't be an asshat. This means that we will make subjective rulings based on the situation, and any appeal to technicalities will be met with general laughter from the mods.


However, OBD rules such as the one I'm petitioning for, like 3 warnings in regards to evidence given and if loss after failing to bring up evidence in a match thread and continuing to post in that thread you will get a one day ban. One day ban and only that.  Offenses such as flamebaiting, flaming result in longer bans.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

I hate subjective rules, too easy to abuse. Write it all out so everyone can see it. That's my view.

Also, can someone please go ban dupe-kun? Thanks in advance


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## Xelloss (Jul 5, 2012)

spooderman said:


> As I said, I'm all for unbanning regs and trolls.
> 
> When it shows one side doing it's job then the other side will be more agreeable.
> 
> However there have been times where the OBD did do what was suggested, but the mods didn't keep their part. That just added to the problems.



Most people aren't on at this time of the day, and we also need to find willy and bring him up here (and to the staff discussion).

On this I ask you to wait, we aren't exactly the flash when it comes to decisions like this 1, and I can't promise it would be accepted. I do understand but u also have to see mods are restricted, we lack ban powers or things would be fairly faster.


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## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I hate subjective rules, too easy to abuse. Write it all out so everyone can see it. That's my view.



Do you think we can all agree with my 3 strikes regarding evidence rule? That sounds more than fair IMO. 3 attempts are given at providing evidence of your side in regards to who wins before the match is declared over. 

Also if it's broken just a simple one day ban. Hardly anything worth complaining about and the need to make a dupe account to come back on the forum.


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## Xelloss (Jul 5, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I hate subjective rules, too easy to abuse. Write it all out so everyone can see it. That's my view.
> 
> Also, can someone please go ban dupe-kun? Thanks in advance



On it, I got hold of someone with ban powers.

The rules would be posted and clear for everyone to see, we just want you to participate.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 5, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> On this I ask you to wait, we aren't exactly the flash when it comes to decisions like this 1, and I can't promise it would be accepted. I do understand but u also have to see mods are restricted, we lack ban powers or things would be fairly faster.



Still think a staff dupe Smod account would be a good idea for those times no one is fucking on. In extreme emergency section mods would be allowed to access it to temp ban someone until it can be reviewed.




Bender said:


> Do you think we can all agree with my 3 strikes regarding evidence rule? That sounds more than fair IMO. 3 attempts are given at providing evidence of your side in regards to who wins before the match is declared over.
> 
> Also if it's broken just a simple one day ban. Hardly anything worth complaining about and the need to make a dupe account to come back on the forum.



I don't actually want it to be that restrictive but then I'm kinda odd. Starting with warnings would be better unless the person in question is totally overbearing. This is, of course, contingent on enforcement.


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## Xelloss (Jul 5, 2012)

I have done some propositions about that. I would try to keep finding a solution now if you excuse me I have some work to attend and I would check later on.


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## Bender (Jul 5, 2012)

> I don't actually want it to be that restrictive. Starting with warnings would be better unless the person in question is totally overbearing. This is, of course, contingent on enforcement.



It seems like a precautionary rule, and won't be bothersome to OBD regulars seeing as how they're able to hold their own in an argument. Let's just say it can be brought up in case the thread gets to the point it's seen as overbearing as some.

Also as Adee suggested:



> Why don't you guys put up a thread in the OBD, like the one in the FC section where users request mod actions, but here the scope will be larger and users can request things like banning, thread closing, etc as well. This may help consolidate things, make them transparent and a good way to gauge what the OBD'ers want exactly by going through the thread?



If done in that way then it won't be as seen as too complex for newbies to the OBD, trolls, hopeless people, etc.

Like for example:

User 1: Awww c'mon guys my argument isn't over

User 2: You've made 3 attempts to provide a coherent argument as to why [Blank] won the fight. It's over your done.

User 1: No I'm not just let me post this...

User: I'm calling a mod..

That way if done it can give a OBD'er the incentive to be more wise when looking up info in a thread. You know similar to how people are in the NF cafe when it's a political debate thread.

Also using this suggestion of tags from Reznor

we can put this in the thread dictating OBD rules



> If it is yellow then the thread could be expected to take a lighthearted tone. Minimal-no evidence should be expected neither should insults.



^
 l
 l
 l

For people who want to make joke threads and such. Rather than a OBD joke forum we can incorporate it into one big page since it seems like a hassle to put them in that section and most are moved there.



> If it is orange, a certain standard should be expected ( what I don't know or really care), that being said it shouldn't be incredibly formal and the insults should only be mild almost in the realm of banter.



^
 l
 l
 l

Basically the type of thread for people who don't mind comments like "dumb friend", or "you ass", memes put in and such thrown out there. 



> If it is red then it should be highly formal and greater leniency regarding insults if someone falls short of the expectations.



^
 l
 l
 l

The thread for people who want debating to be completely professional and zero negative comments.


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## Distracted (Jul 5, 2012)

I'm actually not opposed to banning HST threads or making a separate subsection - - or even a separate section entirely - - for just those threads.  Almost every iteration of them have been done and most people in the OBD are sick of posting in them.  Heck, even I tend to know who's going to win from just reading the title and I barely care.

*edit*

Deathsaurer

I think I've actually brought up the idea of a staff smod account over a year ago at this point.  There's too much of a risk of abuse, and we've had too many accounts get stolen or used lately for us to take that seriously.

I'd like to say that I trust everyone on the staff to not abuse that power, but I've seen a handful of events that cause trouble and it would be really difficult to go through and clean up the potential fall out it would cause.


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## Nevermind (Jul 5, 2012)

One thing that needs to be addressed is banning trolls much more efficiently (with a preemption emphasis at times). Here's an example:



You have this guy here basically baiting and insulting an entire section and has had problematic behavior in the past and in well...pretty much anything he posts. Nothing good will come from him being in the section and he should be banned to save the inevitable annoyance that his presence will cause.

Of course, I expect nothing. Good thing I don't care anymore.


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## Es (Jul 5, 2012)

> Basically this boil to "let us have our fun and ban those who annoy us" you need to also try to improve yourself instead of just request things.



Why shouldn't we have fun debating fictional characters? Anyone who gets angry or over reactive about their favorite fictions and wank it to high heaven should register as a troll. I still think you might be nursing a grudge over the ToAru threads being on the receiving end of the method of test


> Is a free public forum, so long it stay like this, it would be subject to the general rules of the forum, just having a "loli" picture isn't enough to brand anyone as a p*d*p****, about and just because others do wrong don't excuse you to do wrong.


That's your excuse? Not everyone wants to see underage girls or boys being sexualized on a supposed kids forum. You guys get prudish about adult women being exposed yet it's perfectly okay if their a kid, see what kind of message that sends


> You guys didn't help the issue, and if a lot of regulars own words you want to kill the obd so you can move to another forum, debate no longer had any meaning to a lot of you, and you just claim to make stomp you have fun doing, remember what is fun to you, isn't necessary fun to others.


Because they hate what your comrades have turned the OBD into 



> Same what you call a good member isn't nearly a good member for others, now let me ask you this, if we leave u out you would drop your fun matches? and if we unban you and another "bad" member like jplay request the same privilege should we allow it... I mean both of you deserve a second chance.


A good poster is a good debtor, someone that backs up their claims and doesn't wank their favorite fictions. For example in the Luke vs. ToAru thread you Pikachuwii and Greed kept making unsubstantiated claims based on badly translated material and you're arguments let to the series. I'm not saying your trolls or anything but some of your arguments were nothing short of ignorant. People will make non serious there's in response to wank or stupidity, let them slide or at least be lenient because the dumbfucks bring it on themselves

A good poster knows when to concede when they are proven wrong. Raigen would constantly make shit up just to have it destroyed by knowledgeable posters and would not concede no matter how often.

A good poster does not wank, you and Greed are guilty of this, as are others some improve, some don't

A Good poster calls out ignorance and stupid threads, when a thread is terrible and the OP is called on it for being so think who is guilty, the guy making the thread or the guy calling him a idiot because he made it and is clogging the section up with feces?

A good poster has thick skin, if they see their favorite fiction getting stomped they should not bat an eyelash, however if they see it getting wanked horribly and feel ashamed and comment on it and call the wanker on his bullshit fine.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 5, 2012)

100% agree for KaiserWombat modding at the least - activity, knowledge, experience, does calcs ( means he still cares), level-headed, doesn't even hate HST or Fairy Tail 


you might wanna ask him first though 



IMO mods absolutely HAVE to be from the section, it just will not work otherwise despite anything you do


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## Es (Jul 5, 2012)

I also think one sided threads should be allowed if it involves new fictions, or are done in humor


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## Xelloss (Jul 5, 2012)

> A good poster is a good debtor, someone that backs up their claims and doesn't wank their favorite fictions. For example in the Luke vs. ToAru thread you Pikachuwii and Greed kept making unsubstantiated claims based on badly translated material and you're arguments let to the series. I'm not saying your trolls or anything but some of your arguments were nothing short of ignorant. People will make non serious there's in response to wank or stupidity, let them slide or at least be lenient because the dumbfucks bring it on themselves
> 
> A good poster knows when to concede when they are proven wrong. Raigen would constantly make shit up just to have it destroyed by knowledgeable posters and would not concede no matter how often.
> 
> ...



I concede on the second page... I don't really get your point, yeah Pikachu exaggerated a lot and do a lot of no limit. So tell me how did u call that wank? Please point me to that thread.

Please don't dabate any longer in threads they don't care just spam. Please point me to my wank in said thread, and even if I did who are the ones that don't let it go.

Bad or terrible threads the use can make it, just because you don't like certain fiction it doesn't give you the right to declare what is allowed and what isn't.

I can argue the other points but you want to fixate on the wrong of others instead of improve the obd.


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## Es (Jul 5, 2012)

Just pointing it out


> Please don't dabate any longer in threads they don't care just spam. Please point me to my wank in said thread, and even if I did who are the ones that don't let it go.


Ta da




> just because you don't like certain fiction it doesn't give you the right to declare what is allowed and what isn't.


I din't say it wan't allowed...I'm saying a shitty thread should be mocked for what it is. I mean a good portion of the threads produced by Bender are crap for example. A fiction that isn't liked is something different altogether. That barely happens anyways, not unless you mean joke threads which shouldn't be taken seriously in the first place and is why you and greed are so disdained.


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## Xelloss (Jul 5, 2012)

Ohh lol that was a big mistake of my part about telekinesis.

Anyways let's keep this on topic and what do u suggest, fun threads go on the joke battle dome


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## Es (Jul 5, 2012)

Or allow funny threads to exist outside because the Joke battledome is kind of reviled. It's a stigma you see, it's viewed as unfunny. The tag thing might work with this

New fictions or characters or groups being initiated should be identified as Methods of test


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## Xelloss (Jul 5, 2012)

No Es, its a problem that even some people are "frustrated" as you put it, not everyone find them funny, the joke battle dome exist for a reason, toaru quality stomp match go there, trillon thread trying to spite sw goes there, toaster jokes go there, sparkpires go there.

Again Es please bring things you want to improve.


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## Es (Jul 5, 2012)

> the joke battle dome exist for a reason, toaru quality stomp match go there, trillon thread trying to spite sw goes there, toaster jokes go there, sparkpires go there.


No one will post in the joke battledome thus killing the purpose of making a joke thread. It's anti lulz. The failed SW spites should be locked though as they're just blatant spites rather then jokes. Improve or negotiate a way to either actually make the joke battledome less unfunny (Which would take a miracle) or something other then locking obvious joke threads over bad ones.Which brings up another matter, ignore EM's reports as he has some inability to not take shit seriously.


I would also restate the mods need to stop banning a regular for something insignificant like calling someone who necro's a thread a dumbass. Or a prevention from mods banning someone just because they get beaten in a debate by someone else (Greed) or just becuse they dislike someone. And theres C-Hook who was banned for god knows how long for flaming captain smoker a blatant troll, Hoshino Rika who was banned for no fucking reason given. And there are more recent bans such as Blade Dandy and Judas. Stop attempting to purge regulars by giving long ass bans and perms for silly shit. Ban people who pathologically lie about fictions no matter how often they are proven wrong. And when regulars pounce on a crybaby like wesley or Kakashigod stop taking their side. Delete the posts fine but banning people for reacting to someone without thick skin who obviously cares too much about the internet shouldn't be coddled. At the same time warn noobs about their mistakes so they can learn from them so they can improve. Help them learn and grow and avoid repetitive threads


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## Es (Jul 5, 2012)

Also sticky my fucking Star Wars thread in the meta already


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## Basilikos (Jul 6, 2012)

Prime example of a thread that needs to be locked: 

It currently has 18 pages. 

Notice how Zengetto and Gomu, even when beaten in argumentation, continue to stubbornly troll and clog up the place with inane posts, all the while trying to play the victims.

But alas, none of the mods are online to lock the thread and ban the two trolls who are baiting everybody.

Can people at least see where we OBDers are coming from? We've had to endure juvenile tripe like this in our section for years now.


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## Crimson King (Jul 6, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> Prime example of a thread that needs to be locked:
> 
> It currently has 18 pages.
> 
> ...


Those two should have been banned for obvious trolling.


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## Sherlōck (Jul 6, 2012)

OBD coming up with its own rules? I seriously hate that idea. 

Except I would like Staff members to come out & create rules which everyone will except.

Joke Battledome serves no purpose. I have said it in another thread in Meta before. Make it HST section where only pure HST will go. HST vs any other can remain in A/M Battledome.


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## dream (Jul 6, 2012)

Toby said:


> In the meanwhile, Adee proposed the following
> 
> 
> 
> > Why don't you guys put up a thread in the OBD, like the one in the FC section where users request mod actions, but here the scope will be larger and users can request things like banning, thread closing, etc as well. This may help consolidate things, make them transparent and a good way to gauge what the OBD'ers want exactly by going through the thread?



It's an intriguing idea and could work out rather well.  The only worry I have is that it could provide a target for someone's ire.  For example if a member requests the threads of another member to be closed I fear that the person who requested the threads to be closed will earn the ire of the "victim" though it's likely that things won't progress to be a serious problem. 



Gunners said:


> Changing the color of the thread title is what I had in mind however it is not exactly central to the overall idea which is to provide a quick and efficient way of classifying threads so the creator receives the quality of arguments desired and the members know what is expected of them.
> 
> To achieve this color tagging the thread title isn't necessary, putting a particular number word in the title, a particular/unique picture or generic paragraph would achieve the same thing.



I understood the central idea, that's why I suggested using thread prefixes, like the red and sparkly Happy Birthday prefix that can appear in threads in the Lounge, as I feel that they would be the best way to classify threads.  



Something like that is better than having a whole section full of different colored thread title text that would only make me want to gouge my eyes out.  A number word in the title would work but using a thread prefix, such as a prefix called Formal Debate for formal debates, would be more clear and likely faster than having to type a numbered word.  A picture or paragraph in the opening post would work but it wouldn't be as convenient as a thread prefix or even colored titles.

The main reason I don't like the idea is because I personally like there being only one standard, usually, when it comes to debating but I understand why people find this idea appealing.


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## Ice (Jul 6, 2012)

Looking through this thread, I have to say my respect for Toby shot through the roof. He's certainly putting in the effort here.


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## Reznor (Jul 6, 2012)

Lord Genome said:


> on this topic, the problem that i have with it is that it isnt just a one thread thing. being a debate section, the point is to provide evidence and prove why your right, where as some people refuse to make a concession and when that happens it just escalates, since said poster will then make the same argument in another thread and repeat the cycle.


 (I see your point about the repetition. I'll come back to it by the end of the post.)
However, I want to refocus on _"where as some people refuse to make a concession and when that happens it just escalates". _This is simply the real world. 
Concession is rare - few are that humble (A "well whatever..." is the most that a majority will give.)
Additionally, even when discussing real issues, there is such a thing as "Agreeing to disagree" in which two rational people can reach an impasse.... and this is an issue discussing things which aren't really objective.

If the other person doesn't wish to budge. Settle for being more persuasive to a third party.

I'll tie my next point into the next part of my response:


> maybe have a "debate" moderator? someone who is knowledgeable in debate etiquette who can make a ruling when someone is being unreasonable and give a warning or something to that effect. they wouldnt have any further mod responsibilities other than that, dont even need to actually be a mod.  i have no idea how feasible it would be though, maybe easier if the color tag thing is implemented(with the moderator having only to look through the "serious" debate threads)



Let's also take a step back from "Debate". Remember, "debate" is an implicit part of the OBD, not an explicit. The meat of the section is characters from various mediums doing battle - "Debate" is simply the way that a majority of the hardcore OBDers wish to do it. That's fine, but "debate" isn't the only way to go about it.

I'll often talk with real life friends about a match-up between two characters in a show we watch. This will almost always happen on a discussion level where we are both trying to achieve a better understanding of the data. It would be awkward if I said things like "Burden of Proof is on you, buddy".

I understand that debate typically works best for these threads... but Debate is the tool here, not the objective. Rules of proper debating should not dominate.

On a slightly different note, I think that the arguments of what "counts" are stupid. For example, if one person uses a feat that another thinks shouldn't "count", then simply note in the response both ways.
_
Poster 1: Dragonball Kid Goku is way faster than Speedball.
Poster 2: Speedball can go Mach 5... I haven't seen anything like that from Kid Goku.
Poster 1: He took the Rabbit Gang to the moon in minutes.

_Now, Poster 2 would usually respond with "That's a gag feat, doesn't count.", but I would propose.....

_Poster 2: __Given that this isn't a norm and doesn't seem subject to any of the normal rules__, I don't really "count" that one. If we allow that, I would certainly agree that Goku was faster. I am speaking, however, of what we normally see from kid Goku_ in comparison with Speedball.

This, I think, is vastly superior. It keeps the discussion on the characters, rather on the rules of what we allow/disallow. At this point, Poster 1 and 2 can simply establish that they agree that DB Goku (w/ Moon feat) would be faster, and instead focus on the DB Goku (discounting Moon feat) comparison.

The focus on the procedure and the debating itself instead strikes me as concept decay; a thread meant to discuss _the combat abilities of Character X vs the combat abilities of Character Y_ becomes about _the debating skills of Member X vs the debating skills of Member Y_. 

--------------------

As for the repetition thing, let's break this down.



Blantant repetition constitutes spamming. We try to discourage too many threads per day and use a special no thread creating ban group ("Reply Only") for those that make new threads too often. There's an easily solution to the _*extreme case*_.


If it is just someone that says something that most don't agree with and most don't agree, but isn't pressing it horribly hard, I think we can agree on my aforementioned "just move on and let them be" plan makes the most sense. Assuming you agree, this means we can agree on the _*minor case.*_


As for the more _*moderate case*_ of this? I think that's what we need to look at to solve this problem. What makes for this level (and how do we tell that) and what do we do about that?
I'm not sure I have a good immediate answer, but let's use this framework, since it is easier to work from common/agreed ground.




Xelloss said:


> Endless Mike did make a good proposition time ago to clean record for OBD and start a new, this is something I am willing to push forward so long theres a compromise (but bear in mind this means all people on obd ban list).


I wasn't aware that this was an option that the OBD regs wanted. I thought this was something they'd certainly oppose.

News to me. What's the reasoning? Send that proposal my way.



Gunners said:


> Changing the color of the thread title is what I had in mind however it is not exactly central to the overall idea which is to provide a quick and efficient way of classifying threads so the creator receives the quality of arguments desired and the members know what is expected of them.
> To achieve this color tagging the thread title isn't necessary, putting a particular number word in the title, a particular/unique picture or generic paragraph would achieve the same thing.


Yeah, this could achieve some of the things which I mentioned above.


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## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

I'm going to write some rules based on how I interpreted suggestions posted in here. I'll make that post around lunch-time and I would like to see feedback on it. We need to get the big issues dealt with first.

And again, as a reminder, should these rules be reasonable, we'll probably be able to revisit the issue of modding new people. But if OBD is going to stay, new rules HAVE to be implemented. Basilikos asked me why we (staff in general) won't hire new mods. I believe that part of the reason is trust, meaning we don't want a new mod to leak our discussions, and the other reason is a mixed bag. Mods don't have a procedure for hiring a mod that we follow slavishly. We play a lot by foot. Since mods don't agree that you desperately need a new mod, we don't feel pressured to address it. BUT, given the circumstances, I might be able to get us some more mod-coverage in addition to Andy - for the trial period at least. I myself probably won't be active enough to do it if I'm going to post in here while taking breaks from work to read feedback.



Lightning Heavens said:


> Looking through this thread, I have to say my respect for Toby shot through the roof. He's certainly putting in the effort here.



It's all a plot for me to raise my rep.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 6, 2012)

> I'll often talk with real life friends about a match-up between two characters in a show we watch. This will almost always happen on a discussion level where we are both *trying to achieve a better understanding of the data*.


I like that

I like it a lot


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## Ice (Jul 6, 2012)

Well Toby, your plot is definitely working.


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## Bender (Jul 6, 2012)

> But alas, none of the mods are online to lock the thread and ban the two trolls who are baiting everybody.




Bloody hell dude, they have lives you know. The mods can't always be online.


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## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

These are proposed rules for the Outskirts Battledome. Members are free to comment and propose changes to this draft. It is not being forced on you. You are, in fact, encouraged to participate in writing these rules so that you get the kind of section you want.

To preface this, let me say that like Reznor I think the OBD needs to be a place for discussion AND debate. There is no reason why all threads should be strictly moderated according to Hume’s Razor, shredding all posts that have no empirical evidence attached. There is however a desire for a level of debate where members who make claims post proof of it, and are able to debate the issue with civility and a degree of seriousness. Members and mods have a responsibility to maintain the quality of fun within the section, which means encouraging an environment where good contributions are rewarded. 

That being said, failure to comply with these rules will result in punishment, subject to the discretion of the section-moderators. We want members to treat each other with respect, and we expect new members who wish to be respected show some respect to those with seigniorage in this section. Chances are they know what they’re talking about. That is however no excuse to boast of previous feats as a reason for winning a match about something else.

*What the OBD is for: Discussion, debate, light-hearted and serious talk about characters of fiction, and matches between them. *

*1. Matches - What is a match? *A match is a clearly defined battle between fictions. Multiple characters can be pitted against one another, or as team-members, and the object of discussion is to enhance understanding of their abilities, and predict the likely outcome. This won’t be easy to compare for all fictions, so be advised to explain why you are making a grand claim regarding certain fiction’s perceived superiority over others, as preference is not always easy to distinguish from what is evident.

*2. The OP, Opening Post, is responsible for defining the match. *The OP must contain a clear specification that covers “who, what and when”: Who are the characters, what is the match about, when and where is this going on and under what circumstances – and preferably, a list of other relevant limits on time, resources available, etc.

The OP must specify if the object is just to discuss and compare characters, or to debate who would win. Naturally a debate implies expectations of a higher standard. As new members to the OBD are not familiar with terminology and/or previous debates, they are encouraged to search through past threads, and to ask moderators and regular members about past matches, and how to post a thread. New members will probably benefit from engaging in discussions first, lurking a bit, and then try to debate when they have got the hang of the section standards. The OBD is open for new members, but there’s also a culture here that requires understanding before posting. In that sense it is no different from other sections.

*Lingo:* You will notice that some members here use abbreviations and slang. If you don’t know it, familiarize yourself with it by lurking and/or talking to members. Regulars should provide a source for these terms when asked. 

*3. Don't make new threads for old topics. *
If you have something to contribute to a match that has been done before, read the thread and see if your idea sheds new light on it. Post if you have something new to add. Do not make a new thread without checking this in advance. This is discourteous to those who made a good thread in the past, and it is going to overload this place with excess threads on the same subject. _It is recommended that you_ PM a mod if you want to know if you can “resurrect” an old thread with your post.

*4. No flaming/personal attacks, stay on topic.* 
Please avoid using personal attacks in debates. Excessive flaming will earn you a ban. Also, do not derail debates by bringing up issues that are only tangentially related

*5. Don't be an asshat.* 
The basic rule is don't be an asshat. This means that we will make subjective rulings based on the situation, and any appeal to technicalities will be met with general laughter from the mods.

*6. Controversial opinions:*
Having a controversial opinion is not bannable. We don't ban people because the point they're arguing is not considered canon or deviates from what has been previously accepted in past debates. If you believe it, you have every right to argue your side. That's what debates are for, people... every opinion has the right to be aired, and censoring opinions goes against everything we stand for. The point is to substantiate your claim, and if you can do that, you can post your opinion.

Do not try to discredit or deride members with a controversial opinion. That being said, don't throw off-topic opinions out there to provoke people. That's baiting, and will get you in trouble. 


- Feel free to comment on these rules. Rules 3,4,5,6 are amended rules from the Cafe Actual rules written by Vash. I think they are good and straightforward. Regarding ban-duration, I have left that deliberately open to interpretation because mods have different styles. I always followed progressive ban standards in the Cafe, but not all of my friends in staff do this for their sections. A user who only posts and consequently breaks rules in the OBD should be treated according to what OBD mods think is fair.


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## Bender (Jul 6, 2012)

@Tobu

I'm liking it. Not too badly done.


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## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

DP for the purpose of addressing previous points: 

Basilikos, I agree that regulars being punished more than trolls has caused a problem because regulars aren't around to help new members integrate. Your nominees for modship are noted.

Ultimate Deathsaurer: I'm also doing this of my own volition, and because I have spare time at work between requests from colleagues. This is eating into my work and me-time. That's one of hte reasons I literally don't have time to read "mods are ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)", because it's a complete waste of my spare time.

Bender: I agree that the OBD needs to supply a source that contains the lingo, history of past debates, and yeah that's pretty much it. A character reference sheet is also good but that sheet must also contains sources on its materials. Essentially, any claim must be backed up with a "canon" source, and that is the responsibility of the person making the claim.

A 3-strike system has been tried in the past. It's up to the mods if they want to do it again. I reiterate that the section-mods should know best. This conflict has, in my opinion, been driven by the fact that good mods retired due to exhaustion, which lead the "global staff" to mod a section they didn't know well. The section was pissed because their regulars weren't promoted, and they felt that they got less coverage. Our solution is therefore to rebuild the understanding and respect for both parties by agreeing to a new set of rules which staff can use to maintain some order and provide members with the fun they are entitled to. In return, those posters with good reputation that are fair should be considered for modship.

Es: There is only one section on this forum where flaming is explicitly part of the rules. That's the Blender. This is not the Blender. We will not have a debate section where flaming is allowed. It's fine to debate an issue and disagree on it, but there's no need for unnecessary insults and using excessive force against a user. The first priority should be to maintain quality and semblancy. Of course sometimes things go tits up but this should not be the preferred endgame scenario.

Regarding the joke BD: If nobody uses it then you can scrap it. I am indifferent about it, really. But if your point is to make a joke thread that's where it belongs. Trolling your own section-mates is not cool.

Mintaka: PM me if you have an issue with staff. I don't know if I can help you since I'm focusing on OBD now.

Eternal Goob: I also think prefixes would be great. A "srs" tag for debates with a high standard of evidence, for example, would be pretty good.


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## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2012)

> 3. Don't make new threads for old topics.
> 
> If you have something to contribute to a match that has been done before, read the thread and see if your idea sheds new light on it. Post if you have something new to add. Do not make a new thread without checking this in advance. This is discourteous to those who made a good thread in the past, and it is going to overload this place with excess threads on the same subject. It is recommended that you PM a mod if you want to know if you can “resurrect” an old thread with your post.



Necroing old threads is always bad, personally I believe people should be allowed to make new threads of old discussions, as long as they admitted to looking it up and want into interject something new. Also the search system isn't always reliable, god knows I have made a few matchups that were done before but the search system didn't bring up results.

There is also the problem with alot of old threads being poor quality and hardly any discussion, which is always good to start off with a clean slate.


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## Bender (Jul 6, 2012)

Toby said:
			
		

> Basilikos, I agree that regulars being punished more than trolls has caused a problem because regulars aren't around to help new members integrate. Your nominees for modship are noted.



It's difficult for me to be one of the people that tries to help speaking to the newbies if I'm under fire by my own fellow OBD'ers. Especially in the OBD convo where smack talk is natural. Hell, some time ago when the member Mali was new and we bonded over the talk of Beyblade he de-friended because more gossipy bullshit that spawns in the convo. I'm sorry, but this is the OBD is the type of environment where you want less negative attention right? Yeah, that's not the way to go about it. And this negative talk spawned over past match threads. Not everyone has a forte for always being on a roll when creating them. 

Anyways, what I'm getting at is there are no restrictions to who is and who isn't available in the convo. The convo isn't the Konoha Bathhouse where 18+ is a requirement. Meaning, Bioness, me, LHW, are allowed to go in. The whole pedo,rape junk that OBD'ers had problems with are non-existent from this point on. We're cleaning the slate.




> Bender: I agree that the OBD needs to supply a source that contains the lingo, history of past debates, and yeah that's pretty much it. A character reference sheet is also good but that sheet must also contains sources on its materials. Essentially, any claim must be backed up with a "canon" source, and that is the responsibility of the person making the claim.



My suggestion: in the Opening OBD page simply put a thread where certain posts show series characters and their power levels and such

For example



> Neon Genesis Evangelion  Character profiles
> 
> Character Profiles:
> 
> ...



Before making a post of a character profile you will write at the top of the post which series that character belongs to.  For quick linking to that post of the character profile the first post of the power level thread can also serve as a directory for links to character profiles in the thread.

This is the template that will be used for posts describing characters from that respective series



> Name:
> Origin:
> Gender:
> Classification:
> ...



If there is any doubt on the listed characters skills and etc a secondary thread can be made to discuss any mistakes and such.





> A 3-strike system has been tried in the past. It's up to the mods if they want to do it again. I reiterate that the section-mods should know best.



The whole 3 strike regarding providing evidence for a thread has been tried before?





> Our solution is therefore to rebuild the understanding and respect for both parties by agreeing to a new set of rules which staff can use to maintain some order and provide members with the fun they are entitled to. In return, those posters with good reputation that are fair should be considered for modship.




On second thought, rather than modship for those users there can be users in the OBD who serve as advisors since granting modship to OBD'ers whom mods are unfamiliar with is difficult to do.



> Regarding the joke BD: If nobody uses it then you can scrap it. I am indifferent about it, really. But if your point is to make a joke thread that's where it belongs. Trolling your own section-mates is not cool.



I think tags actually seems a much better way to go if you ask me. Barely anyone seems to purposely place their threads in there.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Reznor said:


> Let's also take a step back from "Debate". Remember, "debate" is an implicit part of the OBD, not an explicit. The meat of the section is characters from various mediums doing battle - "Debate" is simply the way that a majority of the hardcore OBDers wish to do it. That's fine, but "debate" isn't the only way to go about it.



In response I have to say I have never seen the OBD as anything other than a debate section. That's the way everyone treated it 3 years ago when I joined and is literally all I have ever known it as. If it was never intended to be such someone should have put their foot down a long time ago because that idea is simply far too ingrained to be done away with. Having said that I feel tagging what is meant to be a serious, non-serious, or intermediate debate is the best fix for everyone. Each would require slightly specialized rules but it would be a great way to differentiate everything.





> I wasn't aware that this was an option that the OBD regs wanted. I thought this was something they'd certainly oppose.
> 
> News to me. What's the reasoning? Send that proposal my way.


It's something I've suggested before, either giving section mods ban powers of some sort or using a dupe. Just the other day Id had to deal with a dupe for almost an hour before someone that could ban them logged on and there have been much worse incidents in the past. Having thought about it I think the dupe idea is the best because it would mean any mod from any section could, if necessary, respond to a problem in any section and put a stop to it until the section mods can assess what punishments need to be handed out.



@Toby I feel a distinction should be drawn between a slip (that's stupid) and an outright attack (you're a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)). One in inevitable the other is unnecessary.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (Jul 6, 2012)

Bender said:


> The people who you want to be banned are people who are clinically sane, *aren't always getting upset over shit that happens in the OBD,* and opinion myopic.


So you're saying the people who care about the section should be banned? 


Bender said:


> Good for you.
> 
> But really  hell it's not just about the matchmaking it's how attempts are continuously made to link the OBD wiki and Naruto forums OBD section which are separate entities. Using it to gauge characters power levels cool. But as said before they're differen entities.  The profiles on the OBD wiki aren't able to be created by users, rather the OBD wiki staff. And the stuff on the profile is pretty much a crud load of trash talk about them. Follow tvtropes example and let people do their own profile page.


If you were actually paying attention, you'll have found all the insulting profile have been deleted now. And when they come back up up again, they'll be on a wiki independent of both NF *and* the OBD wiki. The wiki is created by users, not just EM, GM, zetta and nevermind. For example, look up Assassination Classroom and you'll find it is partially made by me.
People aren't asked to look at the wiki, just to use logic. Looking at the calculation directory and OBD/KMC respect threads works better in many ways than the wiki anyway.
And most of the beef isn't with people who make stomp threads. It's people who make them because of spite, or who continually spam them (basically, if the matches you are making are all called stomps, make threads less often if at all until this stops happening and put more thought into them), or continue their ramblings way after it was completely refuted.


Bender said:


> I'm talking about users profiles, NOT fictional characters profiles.


How do you suggest we separate them? Wikispaces only has so many functions. We considered making the user profiles private to wiki memebrs only, but wikispaces only has that function if you pay and we couldn't afford it/ didn't want to pay.

Besides, I don't quite see how this is relevant to NF.


Bender said:


> Probably, but I'm taking examples from what I've seen at tvtropes. They have their own little versus thread on the forums but even then they don't rack shit up on their profiles talking shit about other tropers or wank.


Bear in mind that these profiles, when they existed, didn't just insult people, they backed it up with evidence. Most of the profiles were links to various posts, and the ridiculing was more self-evident. Also bear in mind that EM even put a critisims section in his own profile, and he later and dandy elegance mocked themselves (EM's profile is still up).


Thdyingbreed said:


> Serious question here can we finally get that 50 post count limit that was suggested in the old OBD suggestions thread?
> 
> Getting tired of that dupe who has made at least 30 dupes now coming into the OBD everyday.
> 
> Since he hasn't been Ip-banned for whatever reason I think this would be a good way to stop him and any other dupes.


Problem with a post limit is that it will block lurkers from getting access to threads, which means the quality of newbies will drop. So unless there is a way to do this while still keeping the forum in view, bad idea.


Bender said:


> Yeah, k keep white washing that bogus story of yours sir. No one believes it. Also wow, you joined "at the supposed worst date". I'm also speaking of people who aren't OBD regulars and hang out in other parts of the forums that are given the back of the hand.  That's just ridiculously dumb.
> 
> Also March was a relatively good date.


OK, lets check his claim out by using the search function: 
Oh, look:

So yeah. A few seconds searching to find you were a load of rubbish again. Also, I made 2 stomp threads in my n00b days, goku vs grand line and obelix vs luffy, and a load of terrible posts, and the most I got from regulars was negs, which I fully deserved. Reasons: I wasn't arrogant about it; I didn't do it deliberately due to spite or to annoy people; I treid to learn form my mistakes; and when my points were refuted, I left the thread. Look it up if you don't believe me.


Bender said:


> It was the month before the convo got taken away. But wait, let's go back some months. Yes, I remember now there was the whole incident where Smod Naruto steps in the convo to tell everyone to "chill out" and "Blade" being ignorant says "Get the hell out." I'm sorry is this another example of the rational behavior that the OBD is rumored to possess? That's like spitting in the face of a police officer after he gives you a fair warning. Also there was complaints about how Blade was banned for saying "GTFO" to Naruto.


If you remember back then, greed, xellos, and willy were all fine to go in the convo as the please. The reason Naruto was told to go away was becuase of the flamebait thread he made a few hours before, so essentially, he was banning blade for responding to his own flamebait. Yeah. That's totally good modding.

And I don't know which country you live in, but getting put in prison for spitting at a police officer sounds like a pretty corrupt system to me.



> Why wouldn't he be banned? You respect authority no matter how painful it is for you.   Or if that's too much then your logic is  double standard as a friend. By that same notion I don't have to give a shit what the rules of OBD wiki state regarding fictional chars power ratings, nor shit involving that crap with mountains and such.



It's nothing to do with that. It's to do with using sound logic. When octahedral turned up and massively went against the wiki's stance on getbackers, he was praised for it.




> So you guys wouldn't care if someone like Bioness steps in the convo thread of the OBD..
> 
> *crickets chirping*


Bioness was given his chance again and again. He blew it. But TehChron, for example, was let in just fine after he made a load of awful posts in his own stomp thread, so I can imagine Bioness being let in similarly if he actually tries to take part in the discussion rather than go in to flame and bait everyone in the thread like you used to do.



Bender said:


> Also the Bioness thing...I'm not saying I give a shit about them but I certainly don't think it's cool how there are posts praising fictional characters like Amon eating lolicons and shit. On another note, some time ago my sister chastised me about celebrating the death of Osama Biin Laden but I didn't make her out to be a black sheep in my family, or a total loony. She just was pro-life and had a "messianic" outlook on people in general.


And those are both perfectly understandable points of view, unlike defending pedophilia and other terrible things like bioness does. And despite all that, he was pretty well accepted for a while until he blew it with his recent charades.



> When's the last time the OBD'ers respected the staff's authority? There is so much double standard in this logic it isn't even funny. Despite my dislike of it I've grudgingly come to accept it. However, what while we listen to your rules though you can't listen to the overall Message board's rules? You don't see anything wrong with that at all?


Comicbookguy was respected. Willyverb is currently respected. Before this year, mods were relativity well accepted, if seen as a bit useless. Probably just above current Endless Mike level, from what I remember.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (Jul 6, 2012)

> How do you expect to get anywhere in life if you don't follow the rules? Let's look at it from this POV, so I'm under fire for making a completely one-sided thread and yet its alright for people like E.S. etc. to make one if it's bashing hated characters/verse for them atm?
> 
> Ane xample:


a) I actually wouldn't say it was OK. I would say it was a bad idea.
b) It was mainly to try and counter the terrible fanboyism at the time going on regarding those fictions. Basically, the people it was targeted at would try to make out it was a fair thread, even that the stomp target would win. Look up "Counter - wank Spite Threads". I still think they are a bad idea, though, because they set a bad example to the people who don't understand the context.



> It's pretty difficult to be lenient to the OBD if you can't do the same. Dude, I remember a while ago saying something really ignorant in the NF cafe on a whim, which was incredibly racist and yet I got a slap on the wrist and I never spoke about it with the member I offended, nor the Cafe mod who banned me. It's called leniency. Is that really so much to ask for?


But if the person offended called you a nitwit and was banned for it, whist you got nothing, would that be good modding?




> So what you can be patient with the newbies you can't with the people you had past problems with? I had past problems with Pseudo and he was able to develop into a sensible poster and etc. Pseudo, Flow (previously Espionage) was able to better themselves and are relatively accepted into the plaza/lounge convo.


We also have posters which have been accpted after their initial terribleness. We have Cubey. We have God Movement. We have Asune. I can remember Some sort of zombie having a fetish for silly whale stomp threads not long ago, as well (although it didn't last long).



> Not really.
> I just find it hard to believe how you're able to be as patient with newbies and yet are unable to do the same with OBD past offenders even though members have done that with others in other sections despite their offenses.


Because older members have less of an excuse?


Toby said:


> Good. If you want this to change however, you need to tell us specifically what you'd do differently. THere's obviously a completely different sense of right and wrong in staff opinion and your opinion. That's why I talked about making new rules. If you'll link me to the suggestions you've made in the past, I'd be grateful about it. I don't know where the look for them otherwise.


I think a major difference in the mod's and majority OBD priorities is that the mods mainly seem to see the main priority as "being nice". However, for the majority of the OBD, the vastly most important priority is the accuracy of the section. Everything else is just an add- on. Yes, this includes the convo, but one of the major beefs about the convo going now, if you notice, is not just that the convo is gone and lack of fun, but that it's loss is appearing to have a major detrimental effect on the accuracy of the OBD. In general, if it is a choice between being nice and OBD accuracy, members will seek to optimise OBD accuracy. This is why you see the occasional flaming, and outrage over bans of members which are keeping the OBD going, somethimes regardless of what the said members did to deserve it.



> A lot of you want dupes and trolls banned. I get it. But not all of us mods get WHY, besides being dupes, these guys need to be banned. You say "their threads are terrible" but we don't even know what sort of scale you're using to measure "terrible". Get the lingo and definitions down on paper and we've got something to work on.


I think one simple defintion is: do they continue debating once their arguments have been refuted. Some people simply haven't thought of NLF or are not aware of a certain feat or calculation. If they still continue spouting the same rubbish after that point has been brought up, that is when things start going wrong.



Toby said:


> Here's one idea I'd like to hear your opinions on. What do you think of the Viz forum's debate rules for their OBD-like section?


Seems good, might need a little tweaking, though. Also those spacebattles rules EM used to post in other threads like this seem like a good idea, too.


Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Cliff notes version of things I'd like to see:
> 
> Insta section ban for spite threads, length to be determined


I think an easy way to stop spite threads is to remove their thread making capabilities, which can be done. Then they can't make anymore.



Toby said:


> EDIT: Great, Deathsaurer. I am taking the bus home now. When I get back I'll start typing up a draft rule and then I want OBD regulars to comment on the idea, phrasing, etc.
> 
> Also, I will be gone from Sunday morning till Friday evening this upcoming week. I can add another week onto this, so there'd be a 3 week period for you guys to talk about a specific new set of rules, a timeline to adopt them, criteria for picking mods, etc.
> 
> That means I'm here until Saturday at midnight central European time, then I will ask Andy and somebody else to look after the thread while I'm gone. I'll be back Friday next week to continue modding this place, and once the following 2 weeks are over, I give my powers back. This is all a show of my intent to help you, and only you. If you're not convinced, then I give up, and you're left with the other staffmembers. I say this thread is your best gamble. Since the last one went tits up due to the lack of standards expected from both sides, I'm being strict for this thread. (That's the point of it being intense and specific.)


Good. Hope this works.


Gunners said:


> Is it possible for the thread started to color tag their threads.
> 
> If it is yellow then the thread could be expected to take a lighthearted tone. Minimal-no evidence should be expected neither should insults.
> 
> ...


Brilliant idea, IMO, at least on paper. I say we should try this out.


> A few more mods in general would be nice but I don't feel anyone I could suggest would be taken seriously at the very least until all this is resolved. Let's face it, we're not exactly "nice" to the staff and no one wants to work with someone that hates them.
> 
> I'll probably think of more stuff later.





Crimson King said:


> Here's a suggestion. Mod someone that posts in the OBD and knows how everything goes. Comic Book Guy was a good mod, since he knew how everything went. Greed was not, since he shows clear bias in everything and is always away screwing with his chickens.
> 
> By getting a mod that knows the OBD, naruto thread #3423423 will get stopped at page 1 instead of getting dragged on for 50 pages.
> 
> ...


He's an idea that might solve these problems, but I'm not sure how popular this will be among the staff. Why don't you have one or two slots in the OBD mods where the OBD can vote them in, by doing a 24 hour thread for nominations, then a week-long poll thread in the meta where members can vote on which mod they want. Do one of those square multiple-choice polls so you don't get split votes. Then next year, the said mods get demodded again and there is a reelection. That way, if the OBD wants to complain about a said mod's actions, they can just not vote them in the next year. And no-one is going to vote in someone who doesn't understand the OBD.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 6, 2012)

Toby said:


> To say that the OBD made a specific set of recommendations to staff to follw is, AS FAR AS I HAVE SEEN, false.





Toby said:


> So if you have laid out how to improve your section somewhere, link me up.





Mmk



Toby said:


> Make a specific proposal in this thread, please.



Then I'll actually hear you out on this for once

For one bring back the OBD Convo since removing it hasn't helped the situation at all, instead making relations between the staff and the regulars worse than it has been

Or give specific stipulations that both the regulars and the staff could negotioate and agree with that would enable us to have the convo back so we can have some actual connection between both parties instead of it being so divided 

Especially since there was no evidence of hazing towards any new members to the section save those who are terrible members or just generally want to troll the section via posting images of hentai and other lewd shit throughout the section, or posting spite threads throughout the OBD

Appoint some mods that will actually be active and assess the situation instead of banning first and asking questions later and letting their personal feelings get in the way of things when it comes to locking threads and punishing older members and letting the new ones get away with it, someone like Willyvereb

Like KaiserWombat, Emperor Joker, etc 

As said numerous times throughout this whole oreal



Toby said:


> quality



For once we actually agree on something


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> I think an easy way to stop spite threads is to remove their thread making capabilities, which can be done. Then they can't make anymore.



No, ban them. If they can't make spite threads they'll just find some other way to troll.


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## Bender (Jul 6, 2012)

@Jetwater Luffy

I'm going to work so I won't be able to respond to your post until 3:00 PM.


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## Basilikos (Jul 6, 2012)

*@Toby:*

Ok, looks like something is coming together. Lets see how it turns out.



Bender said:


> Bloody hell dude, they have lives you know. The mods can't always be online.


Which is why......you know.....myself and other OBDers are so insistent on more and active mods being recruited.

Because long after Distracted and willyvereb have logged off for the day, numerous OBD regulars are still online. And the trolls and dupes at that time start coming out of the woodwork.

Simply put, the current number of mods are not enough by any means.



Bender said:


> It's difficult for me to be one of the people that tries to help speaking to the newbies if *I'm under fire by my own fellow OBD'ers.* Especially in the OBD convo where smack talk is natural. Hell, some time ago when the member Mali was new and we bonded over the talk of Beyblade he de-friended because more gossipy bullshit that spawns in the convo. I'm sorry, but this is the OBD is the type of environment where you want less negative attention right? Yeah, that's not the way to go about it. And this negative talk spawned over past match threads. Not everyone has a forte for always being on a roll when creating them.


You aren't an OBDer, Bender. Posting occasionally in the OBD =/= an OBDer. In addition, whatever happened between you and Mali is not relevant to us forming new rules and policies in this thread.



> Anyways, what I'm getting at is there are no restrictions to who is and who isn't available in the convo. The convo isn't the Konoha Bathhouse where 18+ is a requirement. Meaning, Bioness, me, LHW, are allowed to go in.


Nobody is physically stopping you or others from going into the convo. But don't expect the OBDers there to gleefully greet people that post rubbish in the section and refuse to learn from past mistakes while simultaneously playing the victim.



> The whole pedo,rape junk that OBD'ers had problems with are non-existent from this point on. We're cleaning the slate.


lol



> My suggestion: in the Opening OBD page simply put a thread where certain posts show series characters and their power levels and such


No, we already have respect threads and the wiki. Which are sufficient to inform people.


----------



## Naruto (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> @Toby I feel a distinction should be drawn between a slip (that's stupid) and an outright attack (you're a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)). One in inevitable the other is unnecessary.



I think that's sort of what Toby meant. The problem is any line you draw is just going to become the norm.

I think such a slip can and will be safely overlooked unless it happens all the time, in which case a mere warning should suffice.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 6, 2012)

Toby said:


> Es: *There is only one section on this forum where flaming is explicitly part of the rules. That's the Blender.* This is not the Blender. We will not have a debate section where flaming is allowed. It's fine to debate an issue and disagree on it, but there's no need for unnecessary insults and using excessive force against a user. The first priority should be to maintain quality and semblancy. Of course sometimes things go tits up but this should not be the preferred endgame scenario.





> Flaming
> 
> People are under the impression that flaming has ever been allowed in the Blender. This isn't true.
> 
> ...



Lemme make this perfectly visible, for those who are visually impaired.


*Spoiler*: __ 






> *Flaming
> 
> People are under the impression that flaming has ever been allowed in the Blender. This isn't true.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Naruto said:


> I think that's sort of what Toby meant. The problem is any line you draw is just going to become the norm.
> 
> I think such a slip can and will be safely overlooked unless it happens all the time, in which case a mere warning should suffice.



Hey man, I'm just covering my bases here but I agree with this. The problem here comes from Naruko who has told me she doesn't want to see any flaming at all which I find wholly impractical


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## Naruto (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Hey man, I'm just covering my bases here but I agree with this.



No worries.



Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> The problem here comes from Naruko who has told me she doesn't want to see any flaming at all which I find wholly impractical



To be honest, I agree with her. No flaming would be ideal, but you can't always get what you want. If the section becomes somewhat functional with a minimal amount of hassle from both sides of this fence, so much the better.


----------



## dream (Jul 6, 2012)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> Problem with a post limit is that it will block lurkers from getting access to threads, which means the quality of newbies will drop. So unless there is a way to do this while still keeping the forum in view, bad idea.



It can be made so that newly registered users will be unable to post or make threads in the OBD but still be allowed to view threads and their content.  One just has to edit the Forum Permissions for the newly registered users in the OBD to reach the desired effect.



A separate usergroup then can be made where people request to join after reaching a certain post requirement, like the 18+ Members usergroup, that will allow one to post in the OBD after being accepted in the usergroup.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

I'm working on my own ideas for the tag system, this is what I've gotten so far

non-formal - These threads are not meant to be taken seriously. As such spam and friendly banter are allowed. Though leeway will be given everyone should keep in mind what constitutes friendly banter may vary from person to person. For instances some people may be perfectly okay exchanging Yo Mama jokes while others may take offense to them. It is important that if someone says you have crossed the line of what they consider friendly banter you cease immediately otherwise your actions will be considered flaming. Similarly don't make a big deal about these topics because, once again, they are not meant seriously. Failure to adhere to this can be considered trolling so be warned.  

intermediate - These threads are for people that just want to have a friendly debate without worrying about canon and making strong arguments and such. Spam and banter must be kept minimal. Scans and calcs are not required but may be used at your own discretion.

formal - These threads are the most rigorous encompassing all those tedious little details like calcs, scans, and canon. It is expected of you to provide evidence to defend you position and refrain from spam and insults. Failure to provide evidence will be considered trolling. There will be some tolerance for the occasional slip but constants "slips" will bring into question whether they are accidental or not. Please try to check your baggage at the door to the best of your ability.


Intermediate is the one I'm having the most trouble with since it falls between such massive extremes. Any suggestions on how to strike a balance between the two? Also fuck that yellow


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## Naruto (Jul 6, 2012)

Why can't we just add some thread tags to the OBD?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 6, 2012)

honestly I think people will still post whatever they feel like posting, not looking at serious/non-serious thing


but it's worth a try


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Naruto said:


> Why can't we just add some thread tags to the OBD?



Tags, color it doesn't really matter. I'm working on what they will represent.



Fluttershy said:


> honestly I think people will still post whatever they feel like posting, not looking at serious/non-serious thing
> 
> 
> but it's worth a try



That's what mods are for


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## dream (Jul 6, 2012)

Naruto said:


> Why can't we just add some thread tags to the OBD?



Thread tags would work but they wouldn't be as convenient as Thread prefixes.  There are people who would be too lazy to hover over the tag icon and see what tags are in a thread and may not scroll all the way down to see what kind of thread it is supposed to be.  It isn't a serious issue, especially if the thread starter states what kind of debating is expected in the opening post, but why go for that when we have something better like thread prefixes to use? :byakuya


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Prefixes/whatever would make it easier for the mods to know how to treat each thread but I guess that isn't really uber important, you could just make a note at the start of the thread. Getting the idea of the different thread types approved is the main thing, that way everyone can participate in the OBD the way they prefer instead of being forced to do things a certain way by a single group, at least in theory. This is why it appeals to me so greatly.


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## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> Prime example of a thread that needs to be locked:
> 
> It currently has 18 pages.
> 
> ...



I see that I'm on the firing squad but no one tells you because they are too damn scared to. Or they know what they are saying is bullshit. Trolling? What trolling? If you look through the entire thread no one showed me the evidence I asked for no one even gave the evidence a benefit of a doubt. I asked for it plenty of times, and all you gave was the same stuff over and over. So before you start noticing the shit you don't like. Please notice the shit like you guys starting to troll and say the same shit because you couldn't back up your claims. 

I have given why I said I thought they were wrong, then they degenerated the posts. What was the point of trying to civil in a thread that wasn't actually being civil. You say I'm trolling but when you guys go into a thread you don't like you do the same exact thing and have no effort to actually show your work but start trolling the OP even if the mangas are even in aspects such as power. Please prove me wrong on this. But look at yourselves in the mirror. An OBD with *YOUR* rules is just the "Quality" Brigade. And no matter what the hell you place in your pretty little heads no one likes shit like that except for you.

Trolling. Be quiet and look at yourself. He who is without sin cast the first stone.


----------



## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

Post split



Xiammes said:


> Necroing old threads is always bad, personally I believe people should be allowed to make new threads of old discussions, as long as they admitted to looking it up and want into interject something new. Also the search system isn't always reliable, god knows I have made a few matchups that were done before but the search system didn't bring up results.
> 
> There is also the problem with alot of old threads being poor quality and hardly any discussion, which is always good to start off with a clean slate.



Okay. So, how about this: If you are going to make a new thread about a topic that's been done before, and you're sure you can make a better one, you can go ahead and do it. I still think we should recommend that people ask the mod first, since you can be punished if you aren't making a good thread, or just outright copying old threads. 




Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> In response I have to say I have never seen the OBD as anything other than a debate section. That's the way everyone treated it 3 years ago when I joined and is literally all I have ever known it as. If it was never intended to be such someone should have put their foot down a long time ago because that idea is simply far too ingrained to be done away with. Having said that I feel tagging what is meant to be a serious, non-serious, or intermediate debate is the best fix for everyone. Each would require slightly specialized rules but it would be a great way to differentiate everything.
> 
> It's something I've suggested before, either giving section mods ban powers of some sort or using a dupe. Just the other day Id had to deal with a dupe for almost an hour before someone that could ban them logged on and there have been much worse incidents in the past. Having thought about it I think the dupe idea is the best because it would mean any mod from any section could, if necessary, respond to a problem in any section and put a stop to it until the section mods can assess what punishments need to be handed out.
> 
> @Toby I feel a distinction should be drawn between a slip (that's stupid) and an outright attack (you're a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)). One in inevitable the other is unnecessary.



I do think that OBD needs to also be open for people who are not in the mood for a debate where the objective is to win. Some people just want to talk. Even if there's only one thread like this every month, OP should be allowed to request a polite talk and be free from a barrage of insults and demand to concede ground on a character's relative weakness.

A shared mod account is sadly not gonna happen. I think we're going to hire new mods in the future, but not within the next month. I'm probably being overly optimistic but I think it's possible to be hiring a new mod come August or September IF and only IF this whole new rules project works. I genuinely want it to work, and I think you guys do too. Staff would be very grateful if it meant an end to the conflict. Plus I'm sure the candidates offered so far would be good mods. But keep suggesting people.

Okay, a slip like that is fine in my book. Look, I'm sorry some of you got banned for these slips in the past. Under these new rules, I'll try to prevent that from happening. Then when you guys get a "local" made mod, he'll be more informed about who is on good terms with who, and can tell a malicious poster apart from the rest.




jetwaterluffy1 said:


> ...
> 
> Good. Hope this works.
> 
> ...



Forgive me there was a lot to respond to in this post, so I'll just deal with the parts that addressed me:

Voting a mod in? I don't know. :I

Here's the thing. I think you're all going to recommend the best mods for the job anyway. That much is a given. But it's just that, even in the remotest possibility that you guys might elect a troll, we'd rather not have it that way. So far the candidates are good, and I can take a liking to them, and promote them to staff. It's going to take time for staff to believe that this is actually happening, but I'm sure that once people realize that "hey this solution requires no effort on my part and everyone's happy" then we can promote an OBD'er to mod. 

I don't like toying with my own proposals to be honest. I will give more thought about promoting 1 OBD'er for the trial period since you guys do need more coverage. I can't promise anything, as usual. It's going to be a hard sell. 

As for complaining about OBD mods. I think you guys can and should do it whenever there's a legitimate grievance. Are you suggesting that they should be removed if they become unpopular? I'm afraid that's not setting a good precedent. Usually a mod then finds a replacement and voluntarily retires. It's rare to see a mod who is hated stick around and ... no I don't think I've ever seen that before. Now I'm confused.




Darth Nihilus said:


> Mmk
> 
> Then I'll actually hear you out on this for once
> 
> ...



First point: I was just surveying your opinions. It was not by any means a mandate to come in and start banning people we perceived to be trolls, but that is precisely what we did. And since we disagreed on who the trolls were, we got further into the red. So no, I don't recall the aftermath of the survey with great confidence. 

I do think we're making real progress in here though. There's specific proposals coming from OBD'ers and that's way better than the past record where staff make the rules and members just adjust to them.

I have pointed out that if these rules are made a reality, I'll give you back the convo in a tradeoff.

As for releasing old members who are banned, promoting new mods: Yes and yes I want to do it too but I think rules need to be tried and tested first in order to make staff believe OBD will work as a section on NF. Remember that some members of staff want it closed. I want to convince them that it's not the only viable solution at the moment, and certainly not the best one. But if it's supposed to be legit, you guys have gotta be the heart of the solution.

Candidates noted, and thanks.




Basilikos said:


> *@Toby:*
> 
> 
> No, we already have respect threads and the wiki. Which are sufficient to inform people.



But I do think that there should be a post with links to the stuff that new people to the OBD need. (Note I haven't read the entire wiki. perhaps you have one already). Here's what I think new people need:

1. A list of past debates so they don't repeat past stuff without a legit reason
2. A list of terms used
3. A list of characters (i know you have one already)
4. ??? other stash

Basically, they need a landing page for new people.



Naruto said:


> I think that's sort of what Toby meant. The problem is any line you draw is just going to become the norm.
> 
> I think such a slip can and will be safely overlooked unless it happens all the time, in which case a mere warning should suffice.



Yes


----------



## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> Lemme make this perfectly visible, for those who are visually impaired.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



You're right, it's not flaming. I'll eat my words. My apologies. No flaming on NF whatsoever.



Eternal Goob said:


> It can be made so that newly registered users will be unable to post or make threads in the OBD but still be allowed to view threads and their content.  One just has to edit the Forum Permissions for the newly registered users in the OBD to reach the desired effect.
> 
> 
> 
> A separate usergroup then can be made where people request to join after reaching a certain post requirement, like the 18+ Members usergroup, that will allow one to post in the OBD after being accepted in the usergroup.



Nyoro~n, I don't know if we can do that. 

Would you make it invisible to people who haven't seen it, or only with restricted post access? It's an admin request anyway on NF since they manage usergroups. That would slow down the influx of trolls but possibly also new blood. Are OBD'ers willing to go this far just to handle this? Wouldn't 4 mods be enough to curtail them?


*Spoiler*: __ 





Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I'm working on my own ideas for the tag system, this is what I've gotten so far
> 
> non-formal - These threads are not meant to be taken seriously. As such spam and friendly banter are allowed. Though leeway will be given everyone should keep in mind what constitutes friendly banter may vary from person to person. For instances some people may be perfectly okay exchanging Yo Mama jokes while others may take offense to them. It is important that if someone says you have crossed the line of what they consider friendly banter you cease immediately otherwise your actions will be considered flaming. Similarly don't make a big deal about these topics because, once again, they are not meant seriously. Failure to adhere to this can be considered trolling so be warned.
> 
> ...







I just think a thread should be tagged "formal", and all other threads should be defined by OP. Tags, prefixes, I'm indifferent to it and have no idea if it impacts user experience. Although I did notice the prefixes on birthday threads. It's very easy to see.



Naruto said:


> Why can't we just add some thread tags to the OBD?



I think we can. Reznor should know. :I



Eternal Goob said:


> Thread tags would work but they wouldn't be as convenient as Thread prefixes.  There are people who would be too lazy to hover over the tag icon and see what tags are in a thread and may not scroll all the way down to see what kind of thread it is supposed to be.  It isn't a serious issue, especially if the thread starter states what kind of debating is expected in the opening post, but why go for that when we have something better like thread prefixes to use? :byakuya



Good points.

Now it's time for my dinner and copious amounts of wine. See you guys later.


----------



## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

Finally, just one last point: Whoever you guys want to be mod should also have lots of spare time! Modding took a lot of my time in the Cafe and I did it cause I was an undergrad student with immense amounts of spare time.

So: Spare time is essential for good coverage.


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## Para (Jul 6, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> Lemme make this perfectly visible, for those who are visually impaired.



To be fair, telling someone to "eat a dick" or whatever in the Blender is usually fine. By the standards of most sections that would probably constitute flaming. It's when it crosses the line into the bullying and harrassment type behaviour that it'll be punished.


----------



## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2012)

> Okay. So, how about this: If you are going to make a new thread about a topic that's been done before, and you're sure you can make a better one, you can go ahead and do it. I still think we should recommend that people ask the mod first, since you can be punished if you aren't making a good thread, or just outright copying old threads.



For example, I wanted to pit King of all the Cosmos vs Odin, but before hand I searched it up. The thread wasn't filled with serious posts, and no one really debated anything. So I made a new thread to amend it, I even said how the previous thread didn't really accomplish much in the OP.

This is a lot different then lets say a Goku vs Superman thread, or (Insert HST characters) vs (Insert another HST character).

Also for the tag/color idea; I believe it should just be non serious debate and standard debate, something that requires the strict tag/color can be abused to high heaven, threads can get into heated debates on their own, that's part of the fun with debating. 



> Finally, just one last point: Whoever you guys want to be mod should also have lots of spare time! Modding took a lot of my time in the Cafe and I did it cause I was an undergrad student with immense amounts of spare time.
> 
> So: Spare time is essential for good coverage.



Only if I wanted to mod, I am practically on the internet 24/7, even when I am at work(Front Desk at a hotel, graveyard shift).


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 6, 2012)

Para said:


> To be fair, telling someone to "eat a dick" or whatever in the Blender is usually fine. By the standards of most sections that would probably constitute flaming. It's when it crosses the line into the bullying and harrassment type behaviour that it'll be punished.



The ironic part is that we actually follow that standard of being blunt. Of course we get hammered for it though.

Point being though just want to point out a misconception that's being urking me since it's never addressed. Whether you guys follow it or not it's pretty much your own business. Though someone here saying it's an exception despite being a written rule, especially from a staffer just comes off sounding like an excuse.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Problem is there are people that do like super strict debate rules. We can't give 2 groups what they want and screw over another like that. It has to be a system everyone can hopefully enjoy or it simply wont work at all. If it doesn't work as intended it can be modified as needed.


----------



## Para (Jul 6, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> The ironic part is that we actually follow that standard of being blunt. Of course we get hammered for it though.
> 
> Point being though just want to point out a misconception that's being urking me since it's never addressed. Whether you guys follow it or not it's pretty much your own business. Though someone here saying it's an exception despite being a written rule, especially from a staffer just comes off as an excuse.


Well there's a difference between the type of forum. The Blender is a social/spam forum where  and generally feel comfortable casually swearing/snarking at eachother. It's given and taken in equal measure. Plus, if I banned everyone that was impolite I'd be there for days. I'll admit I know nothing about the Battledome but it's surely a more formal, debate-driven thing where flaming can escalate things quickly and needs to be stamped out/nipped in the bud.

While the Blender isn't a free-for-all, Toby is certainly right in saying that there's a far more relaxed attitude to enforcing the flaming rules. So, if you want to blow off steam feel free to come post in the Blender.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Problem is there are people that do like super strict debate rules. We can't give 2 groups what they want and screw over another like that. It has to be a system everyone can hopefully enjoy or it simply wont work at all. If it doesn't work as intended it can be modified as needed.



This seems like high school all over again. Groups gathering privileges over all others. I'm not here to flame or cause any situations or what not. That's not me. And whatever you guys come up with, thanks for the time it takes to make these rules if you do make new ones. However, no group should take precedence over any group otherwise the chaos in this place will only grow and the mods will only have more problems on their hands. I think the mods want less problems... It's all a matter of genuine fair rules that everyone should be treated as an equal towards everything, whether they have "quality" or not. What they do with that privilege is there business. Just speaking my thoughts on that matter.


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## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2012)

I like to think of it as not screwing over a third party, just as fixing the problem with Joke battledome, since we aren't changing much. 

I don't think we need a strict rule tag/color. In my personal opinion debates shouldn't be so restrictive, we are not debating politics, threads will get heated one way or another. Its not like it would deter trolls anyways.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Xiammes said:


> I like to think of it as not screwing over a third party, just as fixing the problem with Joke battledome, since we aren't changing much.
> 
> I don't think we need a strict rule tag/color. In my personal opinion debates shouldn't be so restrictive, we are not debating politics, threads will get heated one way or another. Its not like it would deter trolls anyways.



But the joke thread should never be considered as serious as people whoever considered it such did. Except when you're bashing other people. It's still considered bullying and trolling due to you using the peoples thoughts on others as leeway to make a way to troll them. That's where the problem lies.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Para said:


> While the Blender isn't a free-for-all, Toby is certainly right in saying that there's a far more relaxed attitude to enforcing the flaming rules. So, if you want to blow off steam feel free to come post in the Blender.



That has huge potential to backfire. While I've never personally had any issues whenever I've made a random post in there it's not a place I'd recommend walking into without know the groundwork.


----------



## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2012)

> But the joke thread should never be considered as serious as people whoever considered it such did. Except when you're bashing other people. It's still considered bullying and trolling due to you using the peoples thoughts on others as leeway to make a way to troll them. That's where the problem lies.



I am sorry but I couldn't follow what you were saying. Can you bring it down so normal people can understand.


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## Para (Jul 6, 2012)

The only thing you need to know is that you need to contribute creatively and not be an ass. Most people who get chased out of there came in acting like they were the bees knees.

...but this is all offtopic so I'll let you get back to the Battledome discussion.


----------



## dream (Jul 6, 2012)

Toby said:


> Nyoro~n, I don't know if we can do that.
> 
> Would you make it invisible to people who haven't seen it, or only with restricted post access? It's an admin request anyway on NF since they manage usergroups. That would slow down the influx of trolls but possibly also new blood. Are OBD'ers willing to go this far just to handle this? Wouldn't 4 mods be enough to curtail them?



I think that they best way to do this would be to take away the thread making privileges of newly registered in the OBD until they reach a certain amount of posts and then are able to join a new OBD usergroup.  This way new members would still be able to post and get used to the OBD but at the same time it would prevent dupes of trolls and newly registered trolls from making "bad" threads such as spite threads.     

It isn't ideal as a member can easily spam to reach whatever post requirement there is and then request to join the usergroup that allows them to post threads.  Dedicated trolls certainly wouldn't be too deterred by this but but a small amount of trolls would be.  And as you said it could have an adverse effect on new blood though not as much of an effect as taking away posting privileges would have, that's something that should be considered seriously. 

Would four active mods be able to achieve a something similar?  They probably would be able to do it if their activity was high enough but there are always times when no one, with the ability to deal with such members, is available.  I'm no OBDer so I can't say if they would be willing to have such a thing or even if there is a pressing need for it.  jetwaterluffy1 seems to like the idea but that's only one member in this thread.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Xiammes said:


> I like to think of it as not screwing over a third party, just as fixing the problem with Joke battledome, since we aren't changing much.


What you'd like to think of it as is irrelevant because that's exactly what it would be. I want my system but I don't like yours so fuck it. It has to be inclusive for everyone or we'll just be back here in 6-8 months time. 



> I don't think we need a strict rule tag/color. In my personal opinion debates shouldn't be so restrictive, we are not debating politics, threads will get heated one way or another. Its not like it would deter trolls anyways.



It is not for you, it is for the people that do like those kinds of debates. They do exist. You can't just shut them out because that isn't the kind of debate you like. I'm trying to design a system everyone can enjoy, not just the people I agree with.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Xiammes said:


> I am sorry but I couldn't follow you.



People post names, and have jokes on other peoples expense on the joke threads all the time. They don't consider it trolling them because it's made for joking. But it should still be considered outright bullying as that is what it is. You shouldn't post about people because for one thing it's the bias opinion of one hundred people that don't like you or consider you trash. What I'm saying is create rules that govern such that everyone should be considered equal even with such things as seniority. No posting peoples personas in the joke battledome. Because it only leads to more chaotic times.

I have more anyway but that's one of the major points.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

You're not supposed to make threads about active forum members at all, trick is getting that rule enforced.


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## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

And that's good. It shouldn't have been an issue at all to begin with in that regard considering that you should at least be treated with the civil liberty of having an opinion in a place made for debating. It's when you move too far into acting out or outright blatantly consider your idea right and their idea wrong yet show nothing for it when the debate just becomes a scuffle between words.


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## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2012)

> What you'd like to think of it as is irrelevant because that's exactly what it would be. I want my system but I don't like yours so fuck it. It has to be inclusive for everyone or we'll just be back here in 6-8 months time.



Its impossible to please everyone, I understand your side, but I don't believe it would help much.



> It is not for you, it is for the people that do like those kinds of debates. They do exist. You can't just shut them out because that isn't the kind of debate you like. I'm trying to design a system everyone can enjoy, not just the people I agree with.



I am not saying they don't exist, I am just pointing out how impractical the system you purpose is.

@ gomu, I understand now, but as Deathsaurer, that's already illegal.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 6, 2012)

Para said:


> Well there's a difference between the type of forum. The Blender is a social/spam forum where  and generally feel comfortable casually swearing/snarking at eachother. It's given and taken in equal measure. Plus, if I banned everyone that was impolite I'd be there for days. I'll admit I know nothing about the Battledome but it's surely a more formal, debate-driven thing where flaming can escalate things quickly and needs to be stamped out/nipped in the bud.
> 
> While the Blender isn't a free-for-all, Toby is certainly right in saying that there's a far more relaxed attitude to enforcing the flaming rules. So, if you want to blow off steam feel free to come post in the Blender.



I won't say formal per say, it's more flexible actually. While we do have rules on how to debate and whatnot, we're not that anal about it. Except for maybe Endless Mike, he's more into that hardcore debating.

What really hate are idiots. It's only oh so much you see person X wanking something for xyz reasons or that Person X has particular bias with a person or a group of people b/c they don't like how we handle things and they get bluntly called out for it and their methods are completely wrong.

The idea of beating someone with logic and proof is good in theory and I'm ok with it. That idea gets thrown out the window the minute someone decides to be a hard headed prick.

So it's particularly a short time frame before "you're wrong" becomes "fuck off" in a drop of a hat. No one gets a clean slate of a sudden a new topic arises unless they decide to shape up. Including myself.

So while yes, flaming should not be condoned,  what we really want is someone to realize who's in the wrong first before people decide to can everyone for speaking their mind on said idiot. Hence the whole "stop banning good posters while letting trolls roam free."



Xiammes said:


> I like to think of it as not screwing over a third party, just as fixing the problem with Joke battledome, since we aren't changing much.
> 
> I don't think we need a strict rule tag/color. In my personal opinion debates shouldn't be so restrictive, we are not debating politics, threads will get heated one way or another. Its not like it would deter trolls anyways.



I'll be honest, it sounds like better written down but in practice it'll crumble hard. Call it instinct on my part.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

You do realize the staff will never go for this if you're trying to shut an entire group of people out like that right? It has to be equal for everyone or it isn't going to happen. Stop being so hardline if you actually want something to get done.


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## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

As I just said towards that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. This forum is made for the freedom of speech as is debating. It's also made for gathering ideas, understanding the need for evidence and supporting it with coherent thoughts. At least in the OBD. Though I mostly go there and no where else except the Roleplaying section. Anyway, it should not be made for a single group especially when that group outright states their bias and only continues to unravel the idea of a person being idiotic because they showcase they like a verse, or in order to prove their popularity/get sick kicks out of someone else expense. It's rude, it's annoying and unless the person is honestly showing that they have no hopes of being capable of understanding they should not be treated as fools in the eyes of others, only as people that should be molded and improved. That's how you become better.


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## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> You do realize the staff will never go for this if you're trying to shut an entire group of people out like that right? It has to be equal for everyone or it isn't going to happen. Stop being so hardline if you actually want something to get done.



Then we should come up with a system that's as good in practice as it sounds on paper.

If it was possible we could implement a system that enforces a 2-3 line minimum when the OP clicks a little box when he makes the thread. It would stop people from entering the thread and posting a 1 liner and then leave.

[] - 2-3 line minimum.


/justanidea


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

That probably isn't possible without a mod to the actual forum and good luck getting Mbxx to approve that.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> That probably isn't possible without a mod to the actual forum and good luck getting Mbxx to approve that.



But you are saying it sounds like a great idea correct? That if it was implemented that people would have to shape themselves into better debaters as a whole and the quality of the OBD would straighten out because of it.


----------



## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2012)

It was just an idea, of course it has its flaws.

We could also increase the character limit to a minimum of 100, under the same box limit.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Yeah but that would apply forum wide and I doubt the Blender for fanclubs would be happy about it.


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## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2012)

Its only if the original poster clicks to enforce it, which they could toggle it on and off.

The problem is getting it implemented.


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## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Yeah but that would apply forum wide and I doubt the Blender for fanclubs would be happy about it.



We can't place a certain option in one sub-forum and another option in another?


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

I honestly have no idea. To me that doesn't sound like something standard and Mbxx is notorious for hating mods to the forum.


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## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Here's the problem right here.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 6, 2012)

Gomu said:


> We can't place a certain option in one sub-forum and another option in another?



The chances of a forum admin putting work into that is the day I become rich.



> I honestly have no idea. To me that doesn't sound like something standard and Mbxx is notorious for hating mods to the forum.



That too.


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## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> The chances of a forum admin putting work into that is the day I become rich.
> 
> 
> 
> That too.



Then there is no hope for the OBD as a whole. Because if we can't even implement basic rules in order to ensure that chaos be turned off from it or to make it less likely we're doomed to fail.


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## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> The ironic part is that we actually follow that standard of being blunt. Of course we get hammered for it though.
> 
> Point being though just want to point out a misconception that's being urking me since it's never addressed. Whether you guys follow it or not it's pretty much your own business. Though someone here saying it's an exception despite being a written rule, especially from a staffer just comes off sounding like an excuse.



It wasn't intended as an excuse. It was a mistake on my part. That's all. Sorry. 

EDIT I'll get back to the rest of you once I have my coffee


----------



## dream (Jul 6, 2012)

Gomu said:


> We can't place a certain option in one sub-forum and another option in another?



As it is the option applies to every section or at least I haven't found a way to do it for a specific section.  As such we will require either Mbxx or Tazmo to upload a modification that will make such a thing possible and the odds of that happening are extremely small, the two of them won't care about such a thing and likely won't be persuaded to upload such a mod.


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## WakaWakaWaka (Jul 6, 2012)

Stop turning this into a personal thing Gomu. That link to the FC was unnecessary.

Okay, since folks are intent on comparing the OBD to the Blender, here's an Idea.

Have a section in the OBD (like the Plaza has with the blender, maybe in the Meta-dome) that doesn't show up unless you're a registered member. 

There, regulars that have been around for a while and that KNOW EACH OTHER (same excuse given for the Blender) can have convos and discussions without hurting anybody's feelings. The rules would be similar to the blender's stuff.

And if a newbie walks in? Hey same deal as the blender. 

The main OBD would still be open for whom ever wants to use it, Regs get a place to talk where people can't bitch, and everyone's happy.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> As it is the option applies to every section or at least I haven't found a way to do it for a specific section.  As such we will require either Mbxx or Tazmo to upload a modification that will make such a thing possible and the odds of that happening are extremely small, the two of them won't care about such a thing and likely won't be persuaded to upload such a mod.



Then once again. They can't do their jobs and make less chaos for the mods than they are doomed to fail. Mods are supposed to be capable of protecting a forum and enforcing the rules yes, but rules help them to have less problems and for the application of intensity in applying such rules to be better.



WakaWakaWaka said:


> Stop turning this into a personal thing Gomu. That link to the FC was unnecessary.
> 
> Okay, since folks are intent on comparing the OBD to the Blender, here's an Idea.
> 
> ...



It showed the exact problem of why the OBD is messed up. No one should be above someone else. We all have our civil liberties of opinion but when you outright talk about someone or show disdain for someone and it's fine, you have a problem.


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## WakaWakaWaka (Jul 6, 2012)

Gomu said:


> It showed the exact problem of why the OBD is messed up. No one should be above someone else. We all have our civil liberties of opinion but when you outright talk about someone or show disdain for someone and it's fine, you have a problem.


Gee....I forgot that this was the internet for a while, where people do that daily.

Responding to that just causes people to say more shit. Let it go.

Anyway, someone do consider what I had to say about the separate section.


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## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

WakaWakaWaka said:


> Gee....I forgot that this was the internet for a while, where people do that daily.
> 
> Responding to that just causes people to say more shit. Let it go.
> 
> Anyway, someone do consider what I had to say about the separate section.



I have no problem with that. But they also take it to debating and come and infiltrate a thread with spam instead of actually debating.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

I personally like the idea but it's a partial fix at best. It's certainly not something the staff will go for without their concerns also being dealt with.


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## Para (Jul 6, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> I won't say formal per say, it's more flexible actually. While we do have rules on how to debate and whatnot, we're not that anal about it. Except for maybe Endless Mike, he's more into that hardcore debating.
> 
> What really hate are idiots. It's only oh so much you see person X wanking something for xyz reasons or that Person X has particular bias with a person or a group of people b/c they don't like how we handle things and they get bluntly called out for it and their methods are completely wrong.
> 
> ...


While I see where you're coming from, we had a similar problem in the Blender. People would come in and delibrately troll/bait people into retaliation. I won't deny that it sucks and it's been a thorn in my section's side as much as any other... but the problem with this is, from the moment you retaliate or tell them to fuck off, you're in the wrong as far as the rules are concerned. In some cases you're *more* in the wrong, because they've managed to wind you up without breaking any rules themselves.

You can tell me "Yeah but so-and-so did this and that" but from an outsider's perspective, there's doubt. Maybe that person didn't know how you guys expect a debate thread to go. Maybe you're just all elitists who hate everyone that doesn't fall in line. You see what I'm saying? From a section mod's perspective, it's difficult to explain why you're banning this person without appearing to be biased towards your regulars, who don't like this new person for whatever reason. It's a bloody tightrope and any mod who even attempts to walk it deserves respect, not derision.

The only way to solve it is to not retaliate at all, but to report it and make sure everyone (mods, members, noobs) know where they stand. That's why this thread tagging idea is probably the most helpful suggestion for dealing with this situation so far.


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## The Great Oneddd (Jul 6, 2012)

Been reading through this thread. Don't know why but it caught my attention. 

Seems to me that the OBD is having to deal with nutcases on both side.  Nitcases being used loosely of course. 

How about a thread being made where OBDers come up with a few rules for their area. Mods then choose a few that seem to make sense and then institute the new rules on a trial basis for a couple months while getting feedback from that area. 

This would allow both sides to contribute and have a say in the matter.  Just saying....


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## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

The Great One said:


> Been reading through this thread. Don't know why but it caught my attention.
> 
> Seems to me that the OBD is having to deal with nutcases on both side.  Nitcases being used loosely of course.
> 
> ...



That could go south in a variety of ways. Last thing we need is one set of OBDers to go against another set. It will only cause more war between members and more conflict as a result.


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## The Great Oneddd (Jul 6, 2012)

Gomu said:


> That could go soft in a variety of ways. Last thing we need is one set of OBDers to go against another set. It will only cause more war between members and more conflict as a result.



Don't know about groups here but if the mods are the ones making the final say on what new rules to use out of submitted ones by the OBDers then it couldn't go soft I would think. Plus over the trial period mods would be able to get feedback and could tweak things as time goes on. 

Beats making a umpteen long page thread where nothing is seeming getting done.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 6, 2012)

Para said:


> The only way to solve it is to not retaliate at all, but to report it and make sure everyone (mods, members, noobs) know where they stand. That's why this thread tagging idea is probably the most helpful suggestion for dealing with this situation so far.



Retaliating and reporting wouldn't be a problem except when regulars actually report something, it gets ignored and put into the trash bin as opposed to those who are new to the forum, or are part of the problem itself report it and the regulars get punished as opposed to whose who just walked into the OBD

This is aside from general inactivity/response time from section mods within the OBD when it comes to down to members reporting someone to the point where mods outside of the section or even higher up staff have to come in and deal with it


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 6, 2012)

Para said:


> While I see where you're coming from, we had a similar problem in the Blender. People would come in and delibrately troll/bait people into retaliation. I won't deny that it sucks and it's been a thorn in my section's side as much as any other... but the problem with this is, from the moment you retaliate or tell them to fuck off, you're in the wrong as far as the rules are concerned. In some cases you're *more* in the wrong, because they've managed to wind you up without breaking any rules themselves.
> 
> You can tell me "Yeah but so-and-so did this and that" but from an outsider's perspective, there's doubt. Maybe that person didn't know how you guys expect a debate thread to go. Maybe you're just all elitists who hate everyone that doesn't fall in line. You see what I'm saying? From a section mod's perspective, it's difficult to explain why you're banning this person without appearing to be biased towards your regulars, who don't like this new person for whatever reason. It's a bloody tightrope and any mod who even attempts to walk it deserves respect, not derision.



Good thing it can be established. Anyone who's anyone besides regulars can point shit out, which has happened before. We don't have to say anything, even newbs will come to the same conclusion.



> The only way to solve it is to not retaliate at all, but to report it and make sure everyone (mods, members, noobs) know where they stand. That's why this thread tagging idea is probably the most helpful suggestion for dealing with this situation so far.



Unfortunately this doesn't work and people have mentioned reporting numerous times in the past to either get zero results or extremely late ones.


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## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

The Great One said:


> Don't know about groups here but if the mods are the ones making the final say on what new rules to use out of submitted ones by the OBDers then it couldn't go soft I would think. Plus over the trial period mods would be able to get feedback and could tweak things as time goes on.
> 
> Beats making a umpteen long page thread where nothing is seeming getting done.



You must have not been here for a long time. That's a big part of the problem of why this is an issue.


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## Para (Jul 6, 2012)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Retaliating and reporting wouldn't be a problem except when regulars actually report something, it gets ignored and put into the trash bin as opposed to those who are new to the forum, or are part of the problem itself report it and the regulars get punished as opposed to whose who just walked into the OBD
> 
> This is aside from general inactivity/response time from section mods within the OBD when it comes to down to members reporting someone to the point where mods outside of the section or even higher up staff have to come in and deal with it



This part is likely down to the fact that most of us don't know about OBD-specific rules. I can't speak for every mod (though I probably do), but when I see a report from OBD I ignore it because a) you guys always seem rather tetchy and b) I don't know enough about the place to be confident in modding it ("what the hell is a spite thread" etc). I'm sure other mods feel the same way about the Cafe, Blender, etc.

If this tagging thing goes ahead and we all know where we stand and I see a report that people are screwing around in a serious-debating thread, then yeah I'll go and delete some posts, give some warnings, because I'll have solid instructions on how to deal with it and won't have to be a regular to know what's going on. As it stands? Few people want to touch the place.


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## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

Participate constructively, King Hopper.


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## Basilikos (Jul 6, 2012)

*@Toby:*
I just remembered, *HachibiWaka* would be a decent mod too, I think. He's pretty easygoing, knows the section, and is a neutral person.



Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I'm working on my own ideas for the tag system, this is what I've gotten so far
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


I'm really liking the sound of this atm. 



Toby said:


> *I have pointed out that if these rules are made a reality, I'll give you back the convo in a tradeoff.*
> 
> As for releasing old members who are banned, promoting new mods: Yes and yes I want to do it too but I think rules need to be tried and tested first in order to make staff believe OBD will work as a section on NF. Remember that some members of staff want it closed. I want to convince them that it's not the only viable solution at the moment, and certainly not the best one. But if it's supposed to be legit, you guys have gotta be the heart of the solution.






> But I do think that there should be a post with links to the stuff that new people to the OBD need. (Note I haven't read the entire wiki. perhaps you have one already). Here's what I think new people need:
> 
> 1. A list of past debates so they don't repeat past stuff without a legit reason
> 2. A list of terms used
> ...


Well, there is the standard OBD assumptions sticky. However, it is kinda outdated with some of its info. There is also the wiki page which explains how to conduct oneself in the OBD:


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## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> *@Toby:*
> I just remembered, *HachibiWaka* would be a decent mod too, I think. He's pretty easygoing, knows the section, and is a neutral person.
> 
> 
> ...



Oh you mean that biased guide that shows which series are quality and which aren't. Basically breaking apart how and why the OBDer should be in situations where they have their own mind, and their own beliefs. Sorry didn't listen to it on account it was probably made by the "Quality" Brigade.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Meh, everyone in the OBD likes something on that list anyways.


----------



## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

WakaWakaWaka said:


> Stop turning this into a personal thing Gomu. That link to the FC was unnecessary.



So this guy is clearly somebody the OBD knows, and probably spooderman. Who is he?



WakaWakaWaka said:


> And if a newbie walks in? Hey same deal as the blender.



No. As Para said, the Blender is more humourous and this is just an excuse for going hard on new people. I'll never allow it. 

I am fine with you guys correcting new members and showing them to the wiki. But I will not give anybody a free excuse to torture a new member. Obviously you should be able to shout at a signup troll as much as you want, but not a legitimate new member on NF that isn't trying to stir shit up.



Xiammes said:


> For example, I wanted to pit King of all the Cosmos vs Odin, but before hand I searched it up. The thread wasn't filled with serious posts, and no one really debated anything. So I made a new thread to amend it, I even said how the previous thread didn't really accomplish much in the OP.
> 
> This is a lot different then lets say a Goku vs Superman thread, or (Insert HST characters) vs (Insert another HST character).
> 
> ...



Sounds good to me.

Basically, yeah, I agree. Tags should be there to prove something is explicitly going on. Unless there is a prefix (or OP admitting it, whatever system you guys choose to go with) I think you should assume nothing. OP should deliver this information, and if he doesn't, the section-mods are free to close the thread until the OP can rewrite the OP and get it amended with mod's permission.




Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Problem is there are people that do like super strict debate rules. We can't give 2 groups what they want and screw over another like that. It has to be a system everyone can hopefully enjoy or it simply wont work at all. If it doesn't work as intended it can be modified as needed.



Well I thought that's the point of the tags/prefix. If you want a very high debate standard, attach the tag, and if you don't - then don't use the tag.

Were you thinking of using it for something else? 




Gomu said:


> This seems like high school all over again. Groups gathering privileges over all others. I'm not here to flame or cause any situations or what not. That's not me. And whatever you guys come up with, thanks for the time it takes to make these rules if you do make new ones. However, no group should take precedence over any group otherwise the chaos in this place will only grow and the mods will only have more problems on their hands. I think the mods want less problems... It's all a matter of genuine fair rules that everyone should be treated as an equal towards everything, whether they have "quality" or not. What they do with that privilege is there business. Just speaking my thoughts on that matter.



You seem to be referring to something very specific and without knowing what it is, I can't help you. I gather that there's bullying going on via the FC section judging by your link. 

I've generally avoided that sort of talk when it affects me, as long as it is isn't in the section I post in. But if you post in the FCs, and if you visit that thread, then it's a legitimate issue and I'd raise it with FC mods if I were you.



Gomu said:


> But the joke thread should never be considered as serious as people whoever considered it such did. Except when you're bashing other people. It's still considered bullying and trolling due to you using the peoples thoughts on others as leeway to make a way to troll them. That's where the problem lies.



I don't think anybody is suggesting we have threads about real people. I wasn't even thinking about that when I wrote the rules, but there's a reason this section is for fictional characters only. 



Gomu said:


> People post names, and have jokes on other peoples expense on the joke threads all the time. They don't consider it trolling them because it's made for joking. But it should still be considered outright bullying as that is what it is. You shouldn't post about people because for one thing it's the bias opinion of one hundred people that don't like you or consider you trash. What I'm saying is create rules that govern such that everyone should be considered equal even with such things as seniority. No posting peoples personas in the joke battledome. Because it only leads to more chaotic times.
> 
> I have more anyway but that's one of the major points.





Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> You're not supposed to make threads about active forum members at all, trick is getting that rule enforced.



This won't be allowed any more under the new rules I'm drafting.



Eternal Goob said:


> I think that they best way to do this would be to take away the thread making privileges of newly registered in the OBD until they reach a certain amount of posts and then are able to join a new OBD usergroup.  This way new members would still be able to post and get used to the OBD but at the same time it would prevent dupes of trolls and newly registered trolls from making "bad" threads such as spite threads.
> 
> It isn't ideal as a member can easily spam to reach whatever post requirement there is and then request to join the usergroup that allows them to post threads.  Dedicated trolls certainly wouldn't be too deterred by this but but a small amount of trolls would be.  And as you said it could have an adverse effect on new blood though not as much of an effect as taking away posting privileges would have, that's something that should be considered seriously.
> 
> Would four active mods be able to achieve a something similar?  They probably would be able to do it if their activity was high enough but there are always times when no one, with the ability to deal with such members, is available.  I'm no OBDer so I can't say if they would be willing to have such a thing or even if there is a pressing need for it.  jetwaterluffy1 seems to like the idea but that's only one member in this thread.



I think a post requirement is doable. Xelloss was recommending it as well to staff in Skype right now. As for creating a filtered usergroup where newbs would receive restricted thread-making rights in the OBD only - that sounds more complex. I've asked for an admin's opinion. Will get back to you about that. 




Xiammes said:


> Then we should come up with a system that's as good in practice as it sounds on paper.
> 
> If it was possible we could implement a system that enforces a 2-3 line minimum when the OP clicks a little box when he makes the thread. It would stop people from entering the thread and posting a 1 liner and then leave.
> 
> ...



I think there's just the 10 character limit to be honest. Besides that the only way we can "hide" OBD access is by making it visible only when you're a registered member (like the Blender) or by making it visible only when you request access (and have 100 posts I think) (like the Bathhouse).


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Meh, everyone in the OBD likes something on that list anyways.



It doesn't actually matter what people do or don't like. They should still be respected because they are fellow OBDers. It's not a clique thing. It's a standard thing, the standards for someone who likes one of those fictions is significantly less than the standards for someone who doesn't like those fictions.


----------



## Basilikos (Jul 6, 2012)

Gomu said:


> Oh you mean that biased guide that shows which series are quality and which aren't. Basically breaking apart how and why the OBDer should be in situations where they have their own mind, and their own beliefs. Sorry didn't listen to it on account it was probably made by the "Quality" Brigade.


I like how you ignore all the guidance and instruction on that page (which is like 90% of it) just to complain about some series that get mocked occasionally in the OBD.  Some people don't like the same fictions you do. That's life.

And UD is absolutely correct, almost everyone likes at least one or two things from that list.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Toby said:


> Well I thought that's the point of the tags/prefix. If you want a very high debate standard, attach the tag, and if you don't - then don't use the tag.
> 
> Were you thinking of using it for something else?



No, Xiammes was saying he didn't think a tag for serious debate was needed at all. I was saying cutting a group out like that probably isn't going to fly since it is one of the main complaints from the staff.



Gomu said:


> It doesn't actually matter what people do or don't like. They should still be respected because they are fellow OBDers. It's not a clique thing. It's a standard thing, the standards for someone who likes one of those fictions is significantly less than the standards for someone who doesn't like those fictions.



Just point out the hypocrisy. There are maybe 5 people in the entire section that do not like anything on that list. I am not one of them.


----------



## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2012)

If Gomu actually paid attention, the list only says "Fictions that are often targets of contempt in the OBD"



> The OBD sure hates a lot of stuff, doesn't it?) However, if you are a fan of one or more of these, don't be afraid to speak up! Either you will be able to defend it well, or you will become a laughingstock. Either way, it's entertainment.



Its a pretty effective guide to the OBD, knowing what fictions are best to tread carefully among the OBD is a huge help.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> I like how you ignore all the guidance and instruction on that page (which is like 90% of it) just to complain about some series that get mocked occasionally in the OBD.  Some people don't like the same fictions you do. That's life.
> 
> And UD is absolutely correct, almost everyone likes at least one or two things from that list.



Because I haven't had to use a stupid guide that influences that BS sprouted. The "guidance" you comment are the standards the "Quality" brigade placed up. The quality brigade don't make the standards for anyone but themselves, therefore I could care less about how they create those rules. All I care about are the character profiles having the correct abilities, skills, attributes and speed that are connected to that verse and character. Nothing more. Nothing less.



Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> No, Xiammes was saying he didn't think a tag for serious debate was needed at all. I was saying cutting a group out like that probably isn't going to fly since it is one of the main complaints from the staff.
> 
> 
> 
> Just point out the hypocrisy. There are maybe 5 people in the entire section that do not like anything on that list. I am not one of them.



Should we treat those who don't like anything on that list with any less respect? No. As MLK Jr said. You judge them by the content of their character.


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## Crimson King (Jul 6, 2012)

A rare sight indeed. The mods and us actually agreeing.




Gomu, respect has to be earned. Earning said respect becomes harder when you repeat the same argument hat's been shot down for the last 10 pages.

I also say the Joke Battledome shouldn't stay. It serves no purpose since no one uses it anyways.

The idea of making it so newbies can't make threads unless they join a usergroup sounds good.


----------



## Xelloss (Jul 6, 2012)

Guys while the quality culture is something we have to face, please keep the wiki and the forums as separate issues.


----------



## Crimson King (Jul 6, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> Guys while the quality culture is something we have to face, please keep the wiki and the forums as separate issues.



Only 1 person is constantly bringing up the wiki, and that person is not a regular.


----------



## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

I dunno, I think you should ignore what the wiki says about certain series then. It's kind of like how bronies and furries are treated in the Cafe.

EDIT: I read the reports of Gomu's posts. I know what you're saying but he is not stirring up shit. He's just annoyed and feels like he's been stepped on. So does Bender and a few others. They are allowed to air their grievances in here as long as they are legitimate.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Crimson King said:


> A rare sight indeed. The mods and us actually agreeing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're the last person that should be talking about respect. I came into your FC because you were talking about me behind my back, and asked you with no malice to please stop talking about me behind my back. You just negged me for it and called me scum. That's not respect, and I really could care less what you or your friends consider respect as. I don't need your type of respect.

At any rate, the facts are people have say on what they like or don't like and shouldn't be hounded for it. Even if they don't like any of those fictions. It's again a content of their character thing.


----------



## Xelloss (Jul 6, 2012)

Crimson King said:


> Only 1 person is constantly bringing up the wiki, and that person is not a regular.



CK regular or not, he is a forum member so his opinion has the same weight as any other user.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> CK regular or not, he is a forum member so his opinion has the same weight as any other user.



IS he saying I'm not a regular... is he serious. I've been here since 2011. Posting daily. Giving evidence and announcing my opinions towards such things, helping fellow OBDers expand how they debate and what not. And he calls me out for not being a regular? That's pretty funny. This is funnier than the time me and Orochibuto were hounded for supporting the Sonic Archie series in it having multiversal properties. Even though we showed evidence of how it was such. This is genuinely funny.


----------



## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2012)

Gomu said:


> IS he saying I'm not a regular... is he serious. I've been here since 2011. Posting daily. Giving evidence and announcing my opinions towards such things, helping fellow OBDers expand how they debate and what not. And he calls me out for not being a regular? That's pretty funny. This is funnier than the time me and Orochibuto were hounded for supporting the Sonic Archie series in it having multiversal properties. Even though we showed evidence of how it was such. This is genuinely funny.





I believe he was talking about Bender.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Xiammes said:


> I believe he was talking about Bender.



I rrrrreeeeaaaallllyyy hope he was talking about someone other then me.

Anyways back on topic. You have to use the true ideal of habeas corpus in which their is no black and white in law, that the law is a pendulum that uses the evidence and the ideals of how a person shows their character, their ideals, and their standing. Not by what they like and do not like.


----------



## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

Okay. Personal squabbles should be brought up in a separate thread. Please.

Let's go back to debating the draft rules I presented. I would like to see some progress on that before I leave on Sunday morning.


----------



## Crimson King (Jul 6, 2012)

Gomu said:


> *snip*



Still going off topic I see.

What respect you had was lost with your constant trolling in the SDK thread. 



Xelloss said:


> CK regular or not, he is a forum member so his opinion has the same weight as any other user.



Reread what I said. I said only 1 person is constantly bringing up the wiki. Nothing else.



Would it be possible to limit the amount of posts newbies make in the OBD? That could help slow down the trolls


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 6, 2012)

you should start with the HST battledome

really

like maybe right now 



that's just something OBD needs and it has nothing to do with modding or any other issues


----------



## Basilikos (Jul 6, 2012)

Gomu said:


> Because I haven't had to use a stupid guide that influences that BS sprouted. The "guidance" you comment are the standards the "Quality" brigade placed up. The quality brigade don't make the standards for anyone but themselves, therefore I could care less about how they create those rules. All I care about are the character profiles having the correct abilities, skills, attributes and speed that are connected to that verse and character. Nothing more. Nothing less.


Uh huh....

It's sound advice given on the page. Whether you put it into practice or not determines how people will treat you.



> Should we treat those who don't like anything on that list with any less respect? No. As MLK Jr said. You judge them by the content of their character.
> 
> At any rate, the facts are people have say on what they like or don't like and shouldn't be hounded for it. Even if they don't like any of those fictions. It's again a content of their character thing.


You are displaying your ignorance. I can think of at least two people respected in the OBD who enjoy Naruto and Bleach, despite them being series unpopular amongst the majority of us.



Crimson King said:


> A rare sight indeed. The mods and us actually agreeing.


I know, right? 



> Gomu, respect has to be earned. Earning said respect becomes harder when you repeat the same argument hat's been shot down for the last 10 pages.


Pretty much this.



> The idea of making it so newbies can't make threads unless they join a usergroup sounds good.


That is a possibility worth looking into as well.



Toby said:


> EDIT: I read the reports of Gomu's posts. I know what you're saying but he is not stirring up shit. He's just annoyed and feels like he's been stepped on. So does Bender and a few others. They are allowed to air their grievances in here as long as they are legitimate.


Actually, he was stirring up shit because he wouldn't take correction or concede when he was proven wrong. Hardly surprising that he got the negative reaction he did. 



Gomu said:


> You're the last person that should be talking about respect. I came into your FC because you were talking about me behind my back, and asked you with no malice to please stop talking about me behind my back. You just negged me for it and called me scum. That's not respect, and I really could care less what you or your friends consider respect as. I don't need your type of respect.


Once again, if you break the rules of argumentation, post rubbish and juvenile tripe for multiple pages without concession, you're going to get a negative reaction. Not anyone's fault but your own.



Xelloss said:


> CK regular or not, he is a forum member so his opinion has the same weight as any other user.


This matter is not opinion based, it is evidence based.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Crimson King said:


> Still going off topic I see.
> 
> What respect you had was lost with your constant trolling in the SDK thread.
> 
> ...



Once more, I neither want nor need your respect.


----------



## dream (Jul 6, 2012)

Crimson King said:


> Would it be possible to limit the amount of posts newbies make in the OBD? That could help slow down the trolls



I don't believe that such a thing is possible without a modification and we are unlikely to get one.


----------



## King Hopper (Jul 6, 2012)

Toby said:


> Okay. Personal squabbles should be brought up in a separate thread. Please.
> 
> Let's go back to debating the draft rules I presented. I would like to see some progress on that before I leave on Sunday morning.



gomu's entire problem with the obd is a personal issue

he tried to fit in

ended up creeping everyone out

got rejected after being caught bsing too hard

now hes frustrated and trying to scratch at the foundation in anyway possible


----------



## Crimson King (Jul 6, 2012)

Gomu said:


> *snip*


Stop being off topic. If you can't even do that, you'll never earn respect.


Eternal Goob said:


> I don't believe that such a thing is possible without a modification and we are unlikely to get one.



Then the usergroup thing would be a good alternate. Or the reply only thing.


----------



## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

Take.It.Somewhere.Else.

SCR is for this. Seriously. In here we discuss improvements for the section.

Reminder:




Toby said:


> These are proposed rules for the Outskirts Battledome. Members are free to comment and propose changes to this draft. It is not being forced on you. You are, in fact, encouraged to participate in writing these rules so that you get the kind of section you want.
> 
> To preface this, let me say that like Reznor I think the OBD needs to be a place for discussion AND debate. There is no reason why all threads should be strictly moderated according to Hume’s Razor, shredding all posts that have no empirical evidence attached. There is however a desire for a level of debate where members who make claims post proof of it, and are able to debate the issue with civility and a degree of seriousness. Members and mods have a responsibility to maintain the quality of fun within the section, which means encouraging an environment where good contributions are rewarded.
> 
> ...


----------



## Xelloss (Jul 6, 2012)

We are considering the 50 post limit for new register users (or request permision for user group).

We are still brainstorming and getting ideas from everyone posting.

But I do agree on the HST subsection, the joke section would probably stay for all those "fun" threads.


----------



## Es (Jul 6, 2012)

Pfft


Xelloss said:


> We are considering the 50 post limit for new register users (or request permision for user group).
> 
> We are still brainstorming and getting ideas from everyone posting.
> 
> *But I do agree on the HST subsection, the joke section would probably stay for all those "fun" threads.*


UD's idea is still better, no one posts in the Joke section. Ever


----------



## Crimson King (Jul 6, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> We are considering the 50 post limit for new register users (or request permision for user group).
> 
> We are still brainstorming and getting ideas from everyone posting.
> 
> But I do agree on the HST subsection, the joke section would probably stay for all those "fun" threads.



Agreed with HST section. 
No one really uses the joke section anyways


----------



## Xelloss (Jul 6, 2012)

Well its about time you use it.

Still if new rules go in effect some toaster jokes need to be gone along some others.


----------



## Bender (Jul 6, 2012)

I'm back from work. Was able to get off earlier



jetwaterluffy1 said:


> So you're saying the people who care about the section should be banned?



Did I say that? No, quit putting words in my mouth, I'm saying people who are too hostile and act like "asshats" as said in the rule for the NF cafe (hell applies to all parts of the forum) should be banned. Just because you're adamant on making your subsection better does not give you the right to act like an ass to people who want to have a fun time.



> If you were actually paying attention, you'll have found all the insulting profile have been deleted now.



It's precisely because of how insulting OBD users profiles are that I stop paying attention to that wiki. You erased all the insulting? Good, that's one more step to bettering yourselves as people.

I'm leveling my responses to your posts up to here. Starting now with the creation of the new rules, we will be creating a new OBD wiki sheet here on Naruto forums as I specified on page 14. A thread detailing verses characters, and a thread if you have disagreements concerning power levels. Fuck that profile shit. Unless you're going to allow users to create their own




			
				Basilikos said:
			
		

> Which is why......you know.....myself and other OBDers are so insistent on more and active mods being recruited.



Even if those mods from the OBD sub-section are selected there are chances they'll only be active for like 2 hours a day or so. Your whole idea of a mod who has like 7 hours on the forum without it conflicting with their work schedule is ridiculous. 



> Because long after Distracted and willyvereb have logged off for the day, numerous OBD regulars are still online. And the trolls and dupes at that time start coming out of the woodwork.



Which is why I and another user (Adee, Reznor) suggested a request thread towards mods and ask them to take of a problem which has been troubling the section.



> You aren't an OBDer, Bender. Posting occasionally in the OBD =/= an OBDer.



I'm a Naruto forumer, and OBD is (unfortunately, for you) apart of Naruto forums. I spend an hour or only 30 mins on it. Means I have frequent endeavors in the OBD. I don't care what the inane process is to consider your an "OBD'er" but the fact of the matter if that section is apart of this forum and that convo is available to this public forum. 



> No, we already have respect threads and the wiki. Which are sufficient to inform people.



The wiki isn't allowed to be posted on the forum.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Es said:


> UD's idea is still better



Not my idea, I'm simply tweaking it in a way I think everyone can accept. I hope...


----------



## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> We are considering the 50 post limit for new register users (or request permision for user group).



We could just have a usergroup with a 50 post limit to join, 200 posts to make threads.


----------



## Basilikos (Jul 6, 2012)

There's more or less unanimous agreement that the HST and Fairy Tail should get their own subsection. After all, there are more than enough threads involving these series to warrant it.


----------



## Bender (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I'm working on my own ideas for the tag system, this is what I've gotten so far
> 
> non-formal - These threads are not meant to be taken seriously. As such spam and friendly banter are allowed. Though leeway will be given everyone should keep in mind what constitutes friendly banter may vary from person to person. For instances some people may be perfectly okay exchanging Yo Mama jokes while others may take offense to them. It is important that if someone says you have crossed the line of what they consider friendly banter you cease immediately otherwise your actions will be considered flaming. Similarly don't make a big deal about these topics because, once again, they are not meant seriously. Failure to adhere to this can be considered trolling so be warned.
> 
> ...



Not bad USD I like it.


----------



## Es (Jul 6, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> Well its about time you use it.
> 
> Still if new rules go in effect some toaster jokes need to be gone along some others.



Honestly the Joke Battledome is not funny. At all. People revile it and it will kill thread activity. Just because you Greed and Em can't take jokes doesn't mean you can kill fun 


Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Not my idea, I'm simply tweaking it in a way I think everyone can accept. I hope...


My mistake then


----------



## Xelloss (Jul 6, 2012)

Xiammes said:


> We could just have a usergroup with a 50 post limit to join, 200 posts to make threads.



Sadly no, this would kill the purpose to have a public forum, picture this someone random is lurking and see "cool superman vs goku i want to read it", sadly he can't because he needs 50 post on the forum to even see this topic.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Xiammes said:


> We could just have a usergroup with a 50 post limit to join, 200 posts to make threads.



I think we should just make them post more of a word count so they can't go in and do one liners as you said before. It'd be better because usually dupes/non-serious posters don't like to post more than one-liners.


----------



## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2012)

HST + Fairy Tail badly need a new section, I don't think anyone has opposed it.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Xiammes said:


> HST + Fairy Tail badly need a new section, I don't think anyone has opposed it.



Fairy Tail seems to be getting more and more popular as the days go by, so yeah. You should consider a new spot for it.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Bender said:


> Did I say that? No, quit putting words in my mouth


I'd ask you to be mindful of doing the same. You've put words in my mouth a couple times.




> Even if those mods from the OBD sub-section are selected there are chances they'll only be active for like 2 hours a day or so. Your whole idea of a mod who has like 7 hours on the forum without it conflicting with their work schedule is ridiculous.


There are people that have the free time. The real question is would the staff accept them and would they accept the job.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I'd ask you to be mindful of doing the same. You've put words in my mouth a couple times.
> 
> 
> 
> There are people that have the free time. The real question is would the staff accept them and would they accept the job.



If the main staff members/admins are as tiresome as you say they are than as you said before they probably will not do so.


----------



## dream (Jul 6, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> Sadly no, this would kill the purpose to have a public forum, picture this someone random is lurking and see "cool superman vs goku i want to read it", sadly he can't because he needs 50 post on the forum to even see this topic.



Actually, it can be made so that said member can see the thread but he or she wouldn't be able to post in the thread.  It would be similar to how guests can see the threads but not be able to post right now.  Or at least I think that it is doable looking at the various forum permission settings.


----------



## Xelloss (Jul 6, 2012)

Duhhh never mind is on the bottom version 3.7 yeah it should be possible.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Gomu said:


> If the main staff members/admins are as tiresome as you say they are than as you said before they probably will not do so.



Tazmo and Mbxx have nothing to do with this forum unless something breaks. Mbxx is slightly paranoid of new forum options so we're stuck with outdated stuff.Tazmo said he can't even convince him to upgrade without a massive fight about it.


----------



## Basilikos (Jul 6, 2012)

Bender said:


> Even if those mods from the OBD sub-section are selected there are chances they'll only be active for like 2 hours a day or so. Your whole idea of a mod who has like 7 hours on the forum without it conflicting with their work schedule is ridiculous.


You're putting words in my mouth.



> The wiki isn't allowed to be posted on the forum.


That rule has long been dealt away with.



Xelloss said:


> Sadly no, this would kill the purpose to have a public forum, picture this someone random is lurking and see "cool superman vs goku i want to read it", sadly he can't because he needs 50 post on the forum to even see this topic.


Anyone could lurk, but 50 posts would be needed prior to joining the usergroup to post and make threads.

Is that possible?


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Tazmo and Mbxx have nothing to do with this forum unless something breaks. Mbxx is slightly paranoid of new forum options so we're stuck with outdated stuff.Tazmo said he can't even convince him to upgrade without a massive fight about it.



I feel sorry for Tazmo then, that's basically a constant headache and a shot of bourbon that can't be helped.


----------



## Xelloss (Jul 6, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> Anyone could lurk, but 50 posts would be needed prior to joining the usergroup to post and make threads.
> 
> Is that possible?



Sounds possible sadly I don't know which modules does NF have loaded.


----------



## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> There's more or less unanimous agreement that the HST and Fairy Tail should get their own subsection. After all, there are more than enough threads involving these series to warrant it.



Sure. We can bring this up in HR since this is necessary in general.



Eternal Goob said:


> Actually, it can be made so that said member can see the thread but he or she wouldn't be able to post in the thread.  It would be similar to how guests can see the threads but not be able to post right now.  Or at least I think that it is doable looking at the various forum permission settings.



It can?



Xelloss said:


> Duhhh never mind is on the bottom version 3.7 yeah it should be possible.



It can!

Will also bring this up in HR. I'll just confirm with admins that we have it. (Measures like these could be voted on. I think we can do it easy by PMing votes on it.)


----------



## Basilikos (Jul 6, 2012)

Toby said:


> Sure. We can bring this up in HR since this is necessary in general.
> 
> It can?
> 
> ...


Excellent.


----------



## Blue (Jul 6, 2012)

We do have those options, yes. It's via usergroup, rather than post count or section, however.


----------



## Bender (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I'd ask you to be mindful of doing the same. You've put words in my mouth a couple times.



My apologies for doing so.



> There are people that have the free time. The real question is would the staff accept them and would they accept the job.



So long as it sounds legitimate. 

@Talk on Gomu, me and others entering the OBD

lol I wasn't hoping to go into a discussion about that but let me put it this way: as Gomu said, I'm not looking for your respect to be able to go into the OBD convo and be accepted as someone who you see as "quality". That's like giving that requirement to be able to go on a ride at Six Flags, or Great America. It's inane. Like how you said this page 10 UDS:



> I'll say it right now, I will never respect Naruto nor Id or Haterade. They have all done things that preclude that from ever happening.



This is the exact same way I feel towards OBD members who relentlessly mock other members who don't meet their standards, mods, and etc. I'm not saying all are like that, but there are good deal that cannot stop themselves from spouting ignorant talk.


----------



## Bender (Jul 6, 2012)

> There are people that have the free time. The real question is would the staff accept them and would they accept the job.



So long as it sounds legit and is unanimously agreed upon by a sizable number of users in that thread you're reporting.


@Basilikos

Posting a thread in the OBD talking about  the power levels, characters, verses sounds easier than posting a link to the wiki.



> You're putting words in my mouth.



No I'm not, I'm saying my interpretation of what you said about a mod being active.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> We do have those options, yes. It's via usergroup, rather than post count or section, however.



If it works it works. If it makes the OBD better it does. There's no where to go but up from the chaos thats been the last three years of the OBD.


----------



## Es (Jul 6, 2012)

> This is the exact same way I feel towards OBD members who relentlessly mock other members who don't meet their standards, mods, and etc. I'm not saying all are like that, but there are good deal that cannot stop themselves from spouting ignorant talk.


Bender you are mocked for a reason, and your not a noob. It's how you conduct yourself and admitting to mistakes. You act like a tough guy and then you run to the authorities whenever someone backhands you verbally when you can't adhere to reason. Also if you didn't care about how you are perceived why do you post in the section? Are you masochistic? You could also try to improve and make good threads or look up the wiki and learn what and what not to do


----------



## dream (Jul 6, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> We do have those options, yes. It's via usergroup, rather than post count or section, however.



By post count we were talking about how there is a post count requirement to join the Bathouse, someone would have to look at all the member requesting to join the usergrouop and see if they meet the post count requirement or not.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> By post count we were talking about how there is a post count requirement to join the Bathouse, someone would have to look at all the member requesting to join the usergrouop and see if they meet the post count requirement or not.



All the bath house is is hentai and erotica isn't it? Seems like a weird point to express in the oppositions of everything else. But meh, the place looks like any other erotica sub-forum I've been to except less detailed.


----------



## Blue (Jul 6, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> By post count we were talking about how there is a post count requirement to join the Bathouse, someone would have to look at all the member requesting to join the usergrouop and see if they meet the post count requirement or not.



That's the case, yeah. People would have to request entry into the usergroup, and this OBD usergroup would need a leader, which could be either a mod or a member.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

So I just want to point out that the basic idea here is starting fresh and stuff so uh stop mocking Bender? And anyone else for that matter. If you're not going to let go of past grudges then we really aren't starting over and this isn't going to work. And that goes both ways. Everyone on both sides need to let this shit go.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> So I just want to point out that the basic idea here is starting fresh and stuff so uh stop mocking Bender? And anyone else for that matter. If you're not going to let go of past grudges then we really aren't starting over and this isn't going to work. And that goes both ways. Everyone on both sides need to let this shit go.



Ultimate is correct in what he is saying. To start something new we need to allow needless grudges and stupid arguments cease and desist. Because all it's gonna do is spark up more problems and it's really stupid to do that. We aren't cavemen, we should be smarter than our last generation because we learned from them, you don't stop something by starting it up again. So what we need is to center ourselves on one common goal. And once we do that we can establish what is needed to be done. For each and every one of our forum places. Because that is what working together is.


----------



## Bender (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:
			
		

> If you're not going to let go of past grudges then we really aren't starting over and this isn't going to work. And that goes both ways. Everyone on both sides need to let this shit go.



I've let go of the past grudges, I just wanted to make sure that this asinine issue is just that, "a thing of the past". No more conflicts with OBD regulars and not-so-hot figures known to OBD'ers.


----------



## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

Good. Let's celebrate current victories. I'm taking the night off to get pissed and talk shit on skype.


----------



## Xelloss (Jul 6, 2012)

Bender if they are making a effort you should to, start by giving a example.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Toby said:


> Good. Let's celebrate current victories. I'm taking the night off to get pissed and talk shit on skype.



Thanks Toby. Lets make the OBD a better place not just for "quality" but for all fictions.


----------



## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

Woop

Just gonna add again that: 

It might not be necessary to filter out new users as much as it would be necessary to just increase mod coverage. 

The benefit of a filter is you stem the flow of new users and signup trolls get a much harder life. But, you get less new blood.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Toby said:


> Woop
> 
> Just gonna add again that:
> 
> ...



But less blood means less trouble. So it's a means to an end on that goal.


----------



## Xelloss (Jul 6, 2012)

When I come with this idea (the 50 post), it was mainly to reduce and limit spam dupes it wasn't by any means to limit new users.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> When I come with this idea (the 50 post), it was mainly to reduce and limit spam dupes it wasn't by any means to limit new users.



Yeah but the OBD is also one of the most popular sections on the Narutoforums, and a good deal of members actually go there.


----------



## dream (Jul 6, 2012)

Gomu said:


> But less blood means less trouble. So it's a means to an end on that goal.



But one must also realize that we do need new blood to replace the old members that have grown bored with the OBD and have left, having lesser new members joining would eventually lead to the OBD becoming a ghost town.


----------



## Bender (Jul 6, 2012)

@Gomu

Agreed



Xelloss said:


> Bender if they are making a effort you should to, start by giving a example.



What I mean is if a familiar and popular OBD figure has just been insulted and starts making comparisons to someone who is on the OBD shit list.

For example

FMA Brotherhood is the best anime?



			
				MdB said:
			
		

> K-ON! and Infinite Stratos are better.





			
				Santoryu said:
			
		

> MdB said:
> 
> 
> 
> > K-ON! and Infinite Stratos are better.





			
				MdB said:
			
		

> You really are a moron (like Bender) if you took my post seriously, because they're garbage.


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> But one must also realize that we do need new blood to replace the old members that have grown bored with the OBD and have left, having lesser new members joining would eventually lead to the OBD becoming a ghost town.



Then lessen it by 1/4th - 1/3rd - -1/2 of the 50 posts that are needed so it becomes more desirable as a result? But there has to be something we gotta do to lessen the dupes, and worse for the ware OBDers that come.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

I would personally prefer better mod coverage over the chance to choke the section to death but then dem fucking dupes


----------



## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I would personally prefer better mod coverage over the chance to choke the section to death but then dem fucking dupes



Then we need more hands. People that we can trust to be firm and fair for all people. People that have a good standing of a good deal of OBDers. People that are also capable of being here for good stretches of time.


----------



## Xelloss (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I would personally prefer better mod coverage over the chance to choke the section to death but then dem fucking dupes



Mods without ban power won't improve the situation a lot.


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## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

*scratches head looking down* Then lets get some mods that have the power to ban and won't take advantage of that power. Maybe two more?


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## Seph (Jul 6, 2012)

I'd just put the current mods (from different sections too) on a shift in the OBD. This doesn't include the OBD mods.

One mod, on Monday, another mod on Tuesday, another mod on Wednesday etc.

7-14 different mods for every week or fortnight.


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## SSNamor (Jul 6, 2012)

Hi. Roman here. I know some mods have a bit of bad blood with me due to that short duping incident, but I'm not here to complain about that. Nor am I here to complain about what  Gomu said earlier (all I'm gonna say is that the stuff on the Wiki is tongue and cheek and that it shouldn't have anything to do with NF) . No, I wanna put all of that aside and voice a short concern.

Mainly, about the usergroup idea. I have nothing against it personally, But what if by the off chance, a permed member like myself, Blade, or someone else in the OBD was unbanned, and we met the requirements to join the group. A member/mod would have to approve that right?

Well, what if the person approving stuff has a bit of a grudge with the unbanned members (I know, I know that stuff should be water under the bridge but it is still a possible problem) and don't allow them to join the OBD? If word got around that would stir up things all over again.

Now that's all I wanted to say on the matter, Regardless of how I acted during my time here (in which case I do admit I was quite an ass :uva), I do want to see shit get better in the OBD. And seeing as how folks are actually agreeing with one another for once that could be a good thing.

Mods go ahead and ban this dupe, but please keep this post. I just want my concern addressed so I can get on with my life.

Also the spodderman and Waka people weren't me just in case you were thinking.

                                                                                                        -Roman55


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## dream (Jul 6, 2012)

SSNamor said:
			
		

> Mainly, about the usergroup idea. I have nothing against it personally, But what if by the off chance, a permed member like myself, Blade, or someone else in the OBD was unbanned, and we met the requirements to join the group. A member/mod would have to approve that right?



Well, I would assume that it will be made so that only newly registered members will need to join the usergroup.  Any member that joined the senior members usergroup should still have the ability to post in the OBD I believe so someone like Blade wouldn't need to join the new usergroup.



> Well, what if the person approving stuff has a bit of a grudge with the unbanned members (I know, I know that stuff should be water under the bridge but it is still a possible problem) and don't allow them to join the OBD? If word got around that would stir up things all over again.



If such a banned member was a non-senior member then I suppose that it's possible that such a situation might arise but I don't think that it will happen, that would just get the person who was approving things in trouble with the Staff.  The Staff could always remove that person from accepting or rejecting new members to the usergroup and appoint someone else to do it, that might be enough to calm the annoyance that might arise.


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## Xelloss (Jul 6, 2012)

I just put a note and request to leave this dupe unbanned roman, if it gets banned (so long you don't go trolling, etc) make someone else pm me, and I would have it unbanned.

About your suggestion, I don't think any mod hold a grude to that degree but I can see where you comming with it.


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## SSNamor (Jul 6, 2012)

Huh...thanks? (though I'd rather have my old name  )

Anyway, It's good to see that this could actually work. I'm tired of all the horror stories from the OBD about mods, Mods own horror stories about the OBD, and the other stuff in between.


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## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

*To clarify, I'm letting the current dupes post exclusively in this thread. Do not post even once in a single other thread from now on. I don't care if you are following the rules in other parts of the forum, just don't post anywhere else.* 

Keep your posting here, and if you contribute constructively, I'll consider it as a sign of good behavior, and I will try to make it count towards an early release. It's a fair deal. It's a damn good deal. Please acknowledge you're willing to abide by it or I will have to ban you.

This offer expires when this thread finishes, which is currently set for the 29th of July.


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## SSNamor (Jul 6, 2012)

Toby said:


> *To clarify, I'm letting the current dupes post exclusively in this thread. Do not post even once in a single other thread from now on. I don't care if you are following the rules in other parts of the forum, just don't post anywhere else.*
> 
> Keep your posting here, and if you contribute constructively, I'll consider it as a sign of good behavior, and I will try to make it count towards an early release. It's a fair deal. It's a damn good deal. Please acknowledge you're willing to abide by it or I will have to ban you.
> 
> This offer expires when this thread finishes, which is currently set for the 29th of July.


Deal. I can work with that.


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## Nevermind (Jul 6, 2012)

Look. This entire thread is all moot.

Until the mod problem is fixed- that is to say, mods that actually understand and are respected by the section are in control (and are given some leeway to enforce that section's needs), nothing is ever going to change.

And plainly, some of these ideas (like a user group for instance) or those tags for threads are just terrible and ineffective.


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## Basilikos (Jul 6, 2012)

Nevermind said:


> Look. This entire thread is all moot.
> 
> Until the mod problem is fixed- that is to say, mods that actually understand and are respected by the section are in control (and are given some leeway to enforce that section's needs), nothing is ever going to change.


We're working on it.



> And plainly, some of these ideas (like a user group for instance) or those tags for threads are just terrible and ineffective.


What makes you say that?


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## Nevermind (Jul 6, 2012)

Because it has potential to choke off the section. And honestly, no one is ever going to listen to those tags. Ever.

Edit: Plus, it's just stupid. I mean really, it's a debate on the internet. We have our rules and procedures, no need for differing levels of tags as we expect the procedures to apply everywhere.


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## SSNamor (Jul 6, 2012)

Yeah, and it was mentioned earlier in the thread that someone could take advantage of the tag system for trolling and other purposes.


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## Nevermind (Jul 6, 2012)

And forcing everyone to register in a user group just to post in a section that's already declining, really? Not only does that choke off potential good newbies (like Lightning, Huntring, and Seraph), and while it may dissuage some dupes or what not (hhahahaha, unlikely, you think dupe-kun with obviously no life is gonna care?) it utterly fails to address again, the heart of the issue: the awful modding regime.

Put simply, it's the mods' job to stop that shit. This does nothing.

And it won't even stop the awful posters that are ruining the section right now.

A lot of the stuff I see in this thread will make the section even worse.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Well there aren't going to be any new mods until there are rules in place that people actually follow. So it's either this or a Naruto style crackdown. Which one do you really want? Abuse will stand out, if they get ignored it will be dealt with. It's better than nothing.


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## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

Nevermind said:


> Look. This entire thread is all moot.
> 
> Until the mod problem is fixed- that is to say, mods that actually understand and are respected by the section are in control (and are given some leeway to enforce that section's needs), nothing is ever going to change.
> 
> And plainly, some of these ideas (like a user group for instance) or those tags for threads are just terrible and ineffective.



There was, only a few pages back, a set of rules under discussion. If you'd weigh in on those I'd appreciate it. I know a filter isn't a superb solution, but it's worth the merit of discussion. 

I agree that mod coverage must increase in the future, but generally, I think the problem is that not all of the members and staff agree on what rules should apply in the OBD. Thus all power used by mods appears illegitimate. So here's a unique chance to actually take part in writing your section-rules. I'd take it if I were you. I don't see how you can lose anything in it.


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## Nevermind (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Well there aren't going to be any new mods until there are rules in place that people actually follow. So it's either this or a Naruto style crackdown. Which one do you really want? Abuse will stand out, if they get ignored it will be dealt with. It's better than nothing.



Well it doesn't have to be this, that's a false dichotomy.

Also, saw the rules already, most of them are sort of already in place by either writing or convention. What does need to be axed though is #3. Thread necromancy is highly frowned on in the OBD, and if substantial new feats come out you basically need to create a new thread.

Either that, or you had a thread from a while ago that had basically no replies, so recreating a new thread for that is better than necroing it.

The problem isn't the rules so much as how they're administered.


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## Basilikos (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Well there aren't going to be any new mods until there are rules in place that people actually follow. So it's either this or a Naruto style crackdown. Which one do you really want? Abuse will stand out, if they get ignored it will be dealt with. It's better than nothing.


Pretty much this.

The mods and regulars are at an impasse. The only way anything will change is via compromise at this point.


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## Toby (Jul 6, 2012)

Nevermind said:


> The problem isn't the rules so much as how they're administered.



Regarding necroing, I am fine with people making a new thread if they have a new feat or something else of substance  to talk about.

As for the claim that the current rules need to be administered differently, you should elaborate on what you want.


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## SSNamor (Jul 6, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> Pretty much this.
> 
> The mods and regulars are at an impasse. The only way anything will change is via compromise at this point.


Yeah, unless the mods and the regulars drop the grudges and try to fix this we are just gonna be doing this over and over......


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## Blue (Jul 6, 2012)

SSNamor said:


> Yeah, unless the mods and the regulars drop the grudges and try to fix this we are just gonna be doing this over and over......



This is a really fucking hard concept for some people. Seriously.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Nevermind said:


> Well it doesn't have to be this, that's a false dichotomy.


Except it does because, you know, those are the terms that were given. Come up with your own ideas if you don't like the current ones.


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## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

Well. On a certain OBD Wiki. There seemed to be people that took the grudges back for years at a time. It was stupid because of the amount of years and wasn't a big deal but they counted it against the people that were on there in the first place. Like the profiles of the "supposed" trolls that were apart of the OBD. It was quite funny actually.


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## Es (Jul 6, 2012)

Get on topic stop bringing up the wiki


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## SSNamor (Jul 6, 2012)

Could you please keep the wiki out of this.

It's done. Over.

And didn't Toby say to take it somewhere else?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 6, 2012)

Anything that happens offsite is completely irrelevant here.


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## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

I didn't have any grudges about it. It wasn't about grudges or anything like that. And I am on topic. One of the main sources for the OBD is the wiki.


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## SSNamor (Jul 6, 2012)

Either way, it's irrelevant to what's going on *here*.

I already said it's a tongue and cheek wiki. That's all I'm gonna say in the matter.


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## Gomu (Jul 6, 2012)

SSNamor said:


> Either way, it's irrelevant to what's going on *here*.
> 
> I already said it's a tongue and cheek wiki. That's all I'm gonna say in the matter.



But if we want to get the OBD cleaned up we have to go to its source of information and clean it up as well. Thus, the wiki itself.


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## Basilikos (Jul 6, 2012)

Gomu, for the last time.

The wiki is not NF.


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## SSNamor (Jul 6, 2012)

If by that you mean cleaning up the insults about *fictional characters* then you can forget it. Other wikis about fictional characters get to engage in mockery about them (TF wiki comes to mind) why should ours be different?

But yeah:



Basilikos said:


> Gomu, for the last time.
> 
> The wiki is not NF.



Keep the wiki out of this.


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## Xelloss (Jul 6, 2012)

Gomu take this as your last warning, stop brining the wiki here or I would have to ban you from this section.


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## King Hopper (Jul 6, 2012)

Gomu said:


> But if we want to get the OBD cleaned up we have to go to its source of information and clean it up as well. Thus, the wiki itself.



>advocates letting bygones be bygones
>still salty about the wiki
>probably wouldn't even care about what happens to the section if not for the wiki

allmyuvas


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Yes, let's keep rubbing that in after Xelloss said stop. I'm sure this will be productive.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Yes, let's keep rubbing that in after Xelloss said stop. I'm sure this will be productive.



Honestly man, I highly doubt the whole "let bygones be bygones" theory would be able to even get off the ground. People could say or even advocate it but if it's not proven, starting now, what are the chances of it working out in the future? Like exhibit A over there.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 6, 2012)

Option A let it go, Option B gestapo mods. A is more appealing by far.


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## SSNamor (Jul 6, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Option A let it go, Option B gestapo mods. A is more appealing by far.


Pretty much this. 

Though really one side won't show anything unless another does.


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## Crimson King (Jul 6, 2012)

We could try archiving the OBD again fora fresh start

*waits for gunshots my way*


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## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2012)

I wouldn't be against it, if we had to use it as a symbol as a clean start I say go for it.

Keep the respect dome though, no reason to get ride of that.


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## SSNamor (Jul 6, 2012)

Kinda lost here....but what would that do?


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## Crimson King (Jul 6, 2012)

SSNamor said:


> Kinda lost here....but what would that do?



Just moves all the threads into the recycling section. It keeps the post counts for those who care.


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## Ice (Jul 6, 2012)

I don't have grudges against anyone and I doubt anyone has one against me. Not including trolls.


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## Xiammes (Jul 6, 2012)

Lightning Heavens said:


> I don't have grudges against anyone and I doubt anyone has one against me. Not including trolls.



Do you forget our months long feud, it started when you and Mickey Rourke, jumped me in the back alleyway.



> Just moves all the threads into the recycling section. It keeps the post counts for those who care.



I also think if we do go with it, we should do the unbannings, even the trolls. We will just have to deal with them as they come.


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## SSNamor (Jul 6, 2012)

Xiammes said:


> I also think if we do go with it, we should do the unbannings, even the trolls. We will just have to deal with them as they come.


Sadly....yep. But at least if they act up again they'll get the boot faster than before. Same thing would apply to me but hey.

There should be a consideration on which trolls comeback however. We certainly don't want Sentry or Phenom running around again.


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## Xiammes (Jul 7, 2012)

SSNamor said:


> Sadly....yep. But at least if they act up again they'll get the boot faster than before. Same thing would apply to me but hey.
> 
> There should be a consideration on which trolls comeback however. We certainly don't want Sentry or Phenom running around again.



We can cross those bridges when we come to it, I think it would be best if we unban them, but not notify them.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 7, 2012)

That sounds more regressive than progressive.


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## SSNamor (Jul 7, 2012)

But then there's another thing. And it all goes back to people with grudges.

See, if the mods do agree on a big "Reset Button" for people who were banned due to the OBD in some way shape or form (be it a regular, troll or whomever) they would have to (as said) unban *everyone*. This includes not only trolls but regulars like Zetta who some mods probably don't even want back.

And then guess what? Back to square one all over again. We need to keep that from happening this time.


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## Crimson King (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm willing to forgive. For all I know, as unlikely as it may be, some of those trolls may have changed. God Movement was able to change, so why not others.


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## SSNamor (Jul 7, 2012)

Asune is another example.

Hell, I'm willing to forgive the staff for the circumstances surrounding my perm.


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## Xiammes (Jul 7, 2012)

I haven't been here long enough to have grudges against anyone, I even like dupekun as silly as he might be.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 7, 2012)

Crimson King said:


> I'm willing to forgive. For all I know, as unlikely as it may be, some of those trolls may have changed. God Movement was able to change, so why not others.



Others aren't GM.

What are the chances for the likes of Sentry, Dragon, Rild, and Tyrant being all peaches and cream?

My point being, lets be realistic here.

Has person X ever shown the capacity to change?
Is person X willing to change?
Is everyone OK with it?

These are the questions that need to be asked. And evidence & history is not looking too good.


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## SSNamor (Jul 7, 2012)

I can tell you right now that Sentry and Tyrant (due to some obvious stuff they did I've seen on Moviecodec) haven't changed in the slightest.

Hate to bring it up, but it's true.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 7, 2012)

SSNamor said:


> I can tell you right now that Sentry and Tyrant (due to some obvious stuff they did I've seen on Moviecodec) haven't changed in the slightest.
> 
> Hate to bring it up, but it's true.



We haven't even touched most pre-2010 trolls. Lord o' mighty.


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## Crimson King (Jul 7, 2012)

Well if they didn't change, they'll be banned again anyways so I'm not worried


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## Xiammes (Jul 7, 2012)

Crimson King said:


> Well if they didn't change, they'll be banned again anyways so I'm not worried



This, if they comeback starting shit, we can have zero tolerance for that kind of behavior and ban them immediately.

At my hotel, I give the guest 1 verbal warning to not disturb the guests, if they continue to do so I call the cops to have them removed.


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## SSNamor (Jul 7, 2012)

I wouldn't be worried about them coming back because it will get them booted all over again.


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## Basilikos (Jul 7, 2012)

Some trolls have been banned for so long they probably don't care about this place anymore even if they are unbanned.

Some like Raigen simply logged out one day and never came back.


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## Sherlōck (Jul 7, 2012)

I like three new proposed rules here

1)-50 post to post in OBD but he will be able to view OBD & read threads. Just like a guest.

2)-200 post to make a thread in OBD.

3)-Making a separate section for Pure HST & FT thread.

Proposed rule I don't like 

Making color tag system in threads. I personally don't think it will cause any good. It is just a horrible rule & will only make OBD look like a circus. But maybe thats just me. 




Basilikos said:


> *@Toby:*
> I just remembered, *HachibiWaka* would be a decent mod too, I think. He's pretty easygoing, knows the section, and is a neutral person.



I second this.


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## Basilikos (Jul 7, 2012)

I think Nevermind did bring up a good point though about the usergroup option being a questionable idea.

While it will hinder trolls severely, it's nevertheless a double edged sword since it will discourage new good posters from joining the section too.

So having agreed upon rules and mods to police the place are the best bet. 

But to reiterate, everyone concurs that the HST and Fairy Tail *NEED* their own subsection. So we can at least put that into effect immediately without any issue I would think.


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## Xiammes (Jul 7, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> I think Nevermind did bring up a good point though about the usergroup option being a questionable idea.
> 
> While it will hinder trolls severely, it's nevertheless a double edged sword since it will discourage new good posters from joining the section too.
> 
> ...



The way I see it, having a usergroup wouldn't be discouraging at all. Generally when you have higher standards(Not high standards, just higher) people want to join. 

Technique of our hotel is that we have a $200 deposit for anyone who pays cash, this helps deter people who we don't want staying at our hotel, while we have no problem selling out because people believe we are of a higher standard./comparison 

The usergroup is only going to really hurt people off forum who want to join NF just for the OBD, it would force them to post in other sections if they want access to ours.


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## Toby (Jul 7, 2012)

Yeah, I don't think mods are too fond of filtering users this way either.

Like I mentioned earlier, this is an issue we can resolve with more section mods. 

I'd rather we get back to talk about how we're going to enforce rules in the OBD. I think we can come back to the question of who deserves to be unbanned, later.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 7, 2012)

does Dragonball need a subsection as well ?


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## Ice (Jul 7, 2012)

I just hope if everyone gets unbanned including Zetta, the mods and him won't clash again. It's detrimental to everyone.


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## Toby (Jul 7, 2012)

Not gonna lie, I don't think we're going to unban everyone, let alone Zetta, as part of this set of reforms. 

I think your best shot are to make these rules, interpret how you want them applied in examples where members are being stubborn, flaming, trolling, etc. 

Both sides agree that there isn't a proper sense of order in the OBD. A new set of rules which we agree on how to implement would be the most obvious step in the next direction. Moving sections around will also help. But you need to get more specific on what kind of behavior should be allowed and disallowed in the section.

As a sidenote, did the OBD ever use rewards systems for posters who made the best thread in a month? Bigger avatars, etc. that sort of thing. I know there's some overlap in the usergroup between OBD and other sections with awards, and I thought this might be something worth looking into.


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## Xiammes (Jul 7, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> does Dragonball need a subsection as well ?



Unlike HST + Fairy Tail, Dragonball has ended and we won't be getting any feats soon outside of the MMO.


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## Ice (Jul 7, 2012)

Toby said:


> Not gonna lie, I don't think we're going to unban everyone, let alone Zetta, as part of this set of reforms.


Probably expected this. Too much bad blood. 



> I think your best shot are to make these rules, interpret how you want them applied in examples where members are being stubborn, flaming, trolling, etc.


Not a bad idea.



> Both sides agree that there isn't a proper sense of order in the OBD. A new set of rules which we agree on how to implement would be the most obvious step in the next direction. Moving sections around will also help. But you need to get more specific on what kind of behavior should be allowed and disallowed in the section.


A very good point. Trolling is definitely going and so is flaming and baiting if we want a better forum.



> As a sidenote, did the OBD ever use rewards systems for posters who made the best thread in a month? Bigger avatars, etc. that sort of thing. I know there's some overlap in the usergroup between OBD and other sections with awards, and I thought this might be something worth looking into.


Not as far as I know. Tis a good idea.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 7, 2012)

Toby said:


> Not gonna lie, I don't think we're going to unban everyone, let alone Zetta, as part of this set of reforms.



That would've been a major Achilles Heel to the theory. Because if people & mods were willing to go with the whole cleanslate, "let bygones be bygones" and willing to unban the whole list. Like it was said, this goes both ways. I would've then forced the mods and call them on their bluff that if they honestly believed this, they would have to willing to unban someone like Zetta. This will never happen. And thus people would get called upon their bullshit, hypocrisy abound, and the idea crumbles like I thought it would. I would rather let the place crumble than let people get suckered into this and waste their time. Not to mention the whole "gestapo mod" option is stealthed into UD's mentioned option A anyhow.



> I think your best shot are to make these rules, interpret how you want them applied in examples where members are being stubborn, flaming, trolling, etc.
> 
> Both sides agree that there isn't a proper sense of order in the OBD. A new set of rules which we agree on how to implement would be the most obvious step in the next direction. Moving sections around will also help. But you need to get more specific on what kind of behavior should be allowed and disallowed in the section.



Not simply rules but mod activity and how this is handled. We can think of rules till we're blue in the face. But if mod activity and how they handle the section, handle members, and blahblahblah, aren't up to expections, we're gonna be doing this same Song & Dance routine. Again.



> As a sidenote, did the OBD ever use rewards systems for posters who made the best thread in a month? Bigger avatars, etc. that sort of thing. I know there's some overlap in the usergroup between OBD and other sections with awards, and I thought this might be something worth looking into.



I honestly think this is irrelevant.


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## Toby (Jul 7, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> That would've been a major Achilles Heel to the theory. Because if people & mods were willing to go with the whole cleanslate, "let bygones be bygones" and willing to unban the whole list. Like it was said, this goes both ways. I would've then forced the mods and call them on their bluff that if they honestly believed this, they would have to willing to unban someone like Zetta. This will never happen. And thus people would get called upon their bullshit, hypocrisy abound, and the idea crumbles like I thought it would. I would rather let the place crumble than let people get suckered into this and waste their time. Not to mention the whole "gestapo mod" option is stealthed into UD's mentioned option A anyhow.



I'm sure there's a reason for making that argument, but it's not sound. To say that the only true way to make both sides move on requires releasing every single OBD'er we've ever banned, is simply not sensible. You can already tell that not all members agree on who they want to be unbanned. Second, not all banned members are there for the same reason. 

Now, note that I did not put my foot down at the prospect of releasing people. I am saying that mods, who operate on consensus, will not allow it in all cases. Yes perhaps some bans can be re-evaluated. But bringing these people back is NOT going to restore order to your section. It will bring back some members who belong to your culture, but it's not the solution.



Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> Not simply rules but mod activity and how this is handled. We can think of rules till we're blue in the face. But if mod activity and how they handle the section, handle members, and blahblahblah, aren't up to expections, we're gonna be doing this same Song & Dance routine. Again.



I agree with you, actually. But I don't think I'm getting through to you. If I go to the mods right now and ask them "can we have some more mods for the OBD, please?" they will say no. The majority opinion is negative on this, and has been since the first of these threads popped up in Q&A. 

If you want to turn that "no" into a "yes", then the best way to do that is to find some kind of arrangement that makes staff willing to trust an OBD'er with modship.

That's one of the reasons why I think these rules are a good idea. If the staff see that you are willing to impose some form of order, and if they can agree to the rules and intended use of them, their perception of you might change a little.



Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> I honestly think this is irrelevant.



Fair enough.

But I still think the rules are your best shot. I really do not see any harm coming out of them. Perhaps you don't think our interests align? Well, I don't want my fellow staff to be burning out in the OBD any more. And I think you want good coverage. So we need to agree on what is to be expected of an OBD mod, before we can even address hiring one.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 7, 2012)

> If I go to the mods right now and ask them "can we have some more mods for the OBD, please?" they will say no.


can I ask why ?

rules or not, mod activity in OBD is plainly below what is necessary


they can't spare the mods ? even ones not from the OBD .. or what ? 


I often see Juri doing some mod work in the OBD these days .. Naruko too 

but dupes and trolls still have plenty of time to do their thing




also - that HST/FT section needs to come as soon as possible IMO .. does making it require poking Tazmo/Mbxx ?


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 7, 2012)

I don't think anyone read that clearly. This set, stage 1, redoing the rules. It is prudent to make sure the section is actually stable under the new rules before you let a bunch of people that didn't get along back into it. Baby steps. I personally wasn't expecting Zetta to be unbanned, there are behind the scenes issues between them completely unrelated to his forum behavior. Similarly I wasn't expecting Sentry/Phenom/Tyrant/jplaya/jizz/dupe-kun/etc to be allowed back either.


----------



## dream (Jul 7, 2012)

Fluttershy said:
			
		

> also - that HST/FT section needs to come as soon as possible IMO .. does making it require poking Tazmo/Mbxx ?



It doesn't, our nerfed admins have the ability to add forums/sections/sub-sections or at least some of them do.


----------



## Sherlōck (Jul 7, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> I think Nevermind did bring up a good point though about the usergroup option being a questionable idea.
> 
> While it will hinder trolls severely, it's nevertheless a double edged sword since it will discourage new good posters from joining the section too.



It is a double edge sword. But honestly 50 post is not that much to ask. You can make 50 post in one day here. People who really want to join OBD would find it irritating. But the juice is worth the squeeze.



> But to reiterate, everyone concurs that the HST and Fairy Tail *NEED* their own subsection. So we can at least put that into effect immediately without any issue I would think.



Yes. But It should be only for pure HST+FT thread. Like for example *Luffy vs Madara*. But you can make *Luffy vs Toguro* in A/M Section.



Toby said:


> Not gonna lie, I don't think we're going to unban everyone, let alone Zetta, as part of this set of reforms.



I am not fond of unbanning the member who got ban. But you can reduce the time how long they are going to be ban. Like if anyone is perma baned then make it 6 month or so.



> I think your best shot are to make these rules, interpret how you want them applied in examples where members are being stubborn, flaming, trolling, etc.





> Both sides agree that there isn't a proper sense of order in the OBD. A new set of rules which we agree on how to implement would be the most obvious step in the next direction. Moving sections around will also help. But you need to get more *specific on what kind of behavior should be allowed* and disallowed in the section.



Everyone sees it differently. I doubt everyone is going to agree on same thing. All we can do is find the middle ground which majority will accept.



Toby said:


> Like I mentioned earlier, this is an issue we can resolve with more section mods. .





> I agree with you, actually. But I don't think I'm getting through to you. If I go to the mods right now and ask them "can we have some more mods for the OBD, please?" they will say no. The majority opinion is negative on this, and has been since the first of these threads popped up in Q&A.
> 
> If you want to turn that "no" into a "yes", then the best way to do that is to find some kind of arrangement that makes staff willing to trust an OBD'er with modship.
> 
> That's one of the reasons why I think these rules are a good idea. If the staff see that you are willing to impose some form of order, and if they can agree to the rules and intended use of them, their perception of you might change a little.



We can always nominate someone from OBD to mod OBD after new rules are made. We can give you 5 or 6 name & you guys choose who to pick.



> As a sidenote, did the OBD ever use rewards systems for posters who made the best thread in a month? Bigger avatars, etc. that sort of thing. I know there's some overlap in the usergroup between OBD and other sections with awards, and I thought this might be something worth looking into.



Nope. We do hold OBD awards every year but no prize is given.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 7, 2012)

this is perhaps obvious, but HST/FT section would not have a page limit for it's threads .. unless if they go on for weeks or something .. or get spammed

right ?


----------



## Sherlōck (Jul 7, 2012)

They should have limit. But for pure HST it should be 6 page & HST vs FT should be 8.

I was thinking but how about including Toriko/KHR/HxH in the said section?


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 7, 2012)

overdone that the these threads are, sometimes discussions of something relevant (like a recent feat/calc etc) do spring up there for many pages and it sucks if it gets closed in the middle of that


----------



## Toby (Jul 7, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> can I ask why ?
> 
> rules or not, mod activity in OBD is plainly below what is necessary
> 
> ...



It's "no we won't promote a new OBD member to mod".

We got Andy to cover for the section, but we might be able to get other current staffmembers to fill in the blanks. It would have to be a volunteer though.




Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I don't think anyone read that clearly. This set, stage 1, redoing the rules. It is prudent to make sure the section is actually stable under the new rules before you let a bunch of people that didn't get along back into it. Baby steps. I personally wasn't expecting Zetta to be unbanned, there are behind the scenes issues between them completely unrelated to his forum behavior. Similarly I wasn't expecting Sentry/Phenom/Tyrant/jplaya/jizz/dupe-kun/etc to be allowed back either.



This



Eternal Goob said:


> It doesn't, our nerfed admins have the ability to add forums/sections/sub-sections or at least some of them do.



Correct. If there's demand for new sections, we usually do consider them. 



Last Samurai said:


> We can always nominate someone from OBD to mod OBD after new rules are made. We can give you 5 or 6 name & you guys choose who to pick.
> 
> Nope. We do hold OBD awards every year but no prize is given.



That's why I asked for nominations. 

No prizes? Hm. Maybe there should be some.


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## SSNamor (Jul 7, 2012)

Seeing as how there's an idea for a HST/FT section..well what happens when FT ceases to be popular in the OBD? Would it be swapped for the current darling (popular) series?


----------



## dream (Jul 7, 2012)

SSNamor said:


> Seeing as how there's an idea for a HST/FT section..well what happens when FT ceases to be popular in the OBD? Would it be swapped for the current darling (popular) series?



If FT threads die down and another series begins to choke a section with threads then I don't see why FT wouldn't be replaced unless the OBD mods feel that the new series will only have a brief spurt of popularity before dying down.


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## Distracted (Jul 7, 2012)

Toby said:


> It's "no we won't promote a new OBD member to mod".
> 
> *We got Andy to cover for the section, but we might be able to get other current staffmembers to fill in the blanks. It would have to be a volunteer though.*



I'll be back in the OBD for a while on Monday.  I can be dependable for the foreseeable future after that.  So with some spot duty by other mods (i.e. Juli, Naruko, Greed, Xelloss, willy, etc) I should be able to keep the place mostly clean while I'm on.

Then we can focus on new rules, and then we can focus on mod activity.


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## Toby (Jul 7, 2012)

Would be cool if you could make them discuss rules I posted earlier and keep them posting recommendations for mod, and discussing other issues, Andy.

I'm off now. Gotta fix some stuff at home before flying to Glasgow for the week. It's been a pleasure talking to you all. Nice progress so far. See you all on Friday evening!

Cheers,
Toby


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## Xelloss (Jul 7, 2012)

I am requesting mod powers back for the obd as there are a few things to fix, mind I won't be very active so I still think have another mod back is still a issue for the future.


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## Bender (Jul 7, 2012)

If members are brought back, then only bring back the ones that don't have been repeatedly banned for their juvenile slandering of the mods. Either that or you can do a 1-day trial period for people who were banned for the reason listed above or other more extreme cases. As soon as they log in that offer can be given to them and during the day they spend online without flaming, flamebaiting, trolling, or inciting a war of OBD'ers against mods they can be allowed to continue their venue in Naruto forums.

However, if all that is far too above them those users will stay permanently banned.


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## Distracted (Jul 7, 2012)

I severely doubt we're going to give a clean unban to a lot of members.  If they want back on they'd have to go into the courts and show patience and a willingness to work with us.  They're not just going to get a clean slate.

Whether you liked the rules or not, those were the rules.  It's not hard to follow them to a degree.  We can speak about individual cases (preferably in a different thread to keep this organized) but it's not going to be any sort of blanket policy change.


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## SSNamor (Jul 7, 2012)

Yeah well I kinda agreed not to post in any other thread but this one.

If only to give my ideas on the matters on hand here.

EDIT: I understand the patience and willing to work with and stuff. But there's so much bad blood between mods and OBDers. 

A few people were outraged by what happened to me for example because it showed that the mods were not trying to negotiate anything with me (yeah my attitude and the way I acted was also a factor but still).

Also I know the mass unban idea won't end up more than just that (an Idea) So I really didn't care about that. Just an Idea.


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## Es (Jul 7, 2012)

My suggestion is to not listen to Benders suggestion as it will piss people off and cause tensions to rise between OBD and Mods more





Distracted said:


> I severely doubt we're going to give a clean unban to a lot of members.  If they want back on they'd have to go into the courts and show patience and a willingness to work with us.  They're not just going to get a clean slate.
> 
> Whether you liked the rules or not, those were the rules.  It's not hard to follow them to a degree.  We can speak about individual cases (preferably in a different thread to keep this organized) but it's not going to be any sort of blanket policy change.


There are still posters you have banned that you still won't divulge information about. And others have barely done anything  or minor offences such as as C-Hook, CK, Blade and others while you protect people that constantly bait or bring fire on themselves to go on with impunity. Just saying a show of good will won't kill you. Also I think already mentioned leniency on flaming in the process of a debate especially when someone opposing a debtor is being obtuse


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 7, 2012)

Maybe you should just put Bender on ignore for the duration of the thread. Also I don't think anyone has actually been banned for anything said about the staff so those conditions are pretty funny.


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## Distracted (Jul 7, 2012)

I, personally, have never banned a single person for speaking ill of me.  The closest I came to that was an NBD member who was cursing a lot and making other users uncomfortable.  They had attacked others and turned their ire towards me when I asked them to stop.

After the fourth or fifth warning I had to give them a ban because I was the only smod on at the time.  I think it's bad form to ban someone when they bad mouth you as a mod.  I mean... I know this sounds cocky, but take it in the spirit that it's meant to be taken.

For all intents and purposes, I'm super man and a user is the mook with a gun.  Sure, they intend to hurt me with the bullets, but they bounce off of me.  I gotta let some shit slide.

I've never seen a user get permed for attacking a mod either.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 7, 2012)

Something else everyone needs to take into account is that while I generally agree people that continuously spout ridiculous stuff are trolling because really I find it hard to believe anyone is THAT stupid it's literally impossible for a mod not from the section to understand that. They literally have to experience it to understand. And yeah, the staff wasn't interested in negotiation before now. I'd wager most of them convinced themselves the problem was gone until it was obvious it wasn't. But that doesn't matter now. They've realized the current plan is not working and something else needs to be done. It's up to you guys to decide what you want that new plan to be, and trust me you wont like the outcome if all you do is spit in their faces over and over. If you think it's bad now just wait till they say fuck it.

I'll add in closing this is the most serious I've seen them like ever. There is stuff in the works that I'm not at liberty to discuss but it is something I have never heard of being done before. So calm down.


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## Thdyingbreed (Jul 7, 2012)

Distracted said:


> Only the OBD acts like this is the end of the world.  That some special measure has to be taken to prevent this one person from ruining their day.  I spent months in the OBD, and there are a couple of dupers that are instantly recognizable and are banned the moment their profiles are checked.
> 
> They are no worse then a couple of dupers I've seen in the konoha library, or the one who used to troll the cafe, or the one who trolls the NBD.  Those are just the sections I'm familiar with.  I'm sure there are others that troll the FCs, the plaza, and every other section.
> 
> ...


It's not just about this one person I just want a solution that effectively kills off duping or simply makes it not worth the effort.

Making a post counting limit is the best way I can think of because 99% of people aren't going to make dupes if they have to get 50 posts. 

Just to have said account banned in under an hour it simply isn't worth the time for most people.

The difference between the OBD and other sections is that as they don't have dupes. 

Anywhere near as frequently as the OBD does so it's really not a big issue there as it would be in the OBD.

Honestly I really don't see what negatives there are to having a posting counting limit in the OBD. 

It lessens the workload for moderators, and it effectively kills off one of the biggest issues in the OBD. 

I also agree with what was stated earlier about spite threads a system needs to be put in place that stops people from doing it repeatedley.

The usergroup idea is also good something needs to be done that curbs the amount of dupes in the OBD. 

As the current situation obviously doesn't work.


There needs to be punishments for people who continually make spite threads like a warning system.

My idea would be this.

First offense: Warning from a moderator, not to do it again.
Second offense: Loss of thread making privilege's for a couple of days and a warning that if they do it again they will lose it permantley.
Third offense: They are no longer allowed to make threads for a signifcant amount of time up to the moderator's.

Also agreed with making a subsection in M/A battledome for HST related threads to be made in.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm personally uncaring how harsh you are with spite threads. Be as harsh as you want to be. If the group idea is used Senior Members should have posting privileges automatically so as not to affect current membership as much as possible.


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## SSNamor (Jul 7, 2012)

But wait a sec, some threads could just be joke threads that are just there for giggles. If the JBD is removed then figuring out which are spite and which are just jokes could be a problem.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 7, 2012)

That was the general idea behind giving them tags to distinguish them. If necessary I can go dig up links as examples.


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## Bender (Jul 8, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Maybe you should just put Bender on ignore for the duration of the thread.



I don't understand why E.S. hasn't done that yet. I've had him on ignore for an entire week now. 

Hell, he's another reason for OBD experience sucking for people. Because of what happened in there he feels the need to stalk and troll me and Li Shenron.


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## SSNamor (Jul 8, 2012)

Bender why are you off topic again? Take that somewhere else please. 

And for those wondering, yes I have him on ignore but I can still see what he says when I'm logged off.


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## Mider T (Jul 8, 2012)

ITT: Distracted doesn't remember the days of sunshine & gasoline.


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## Bender (Jul 8, 2012)

SSNamor said:


> Bender why are you off topic again? Take that somewhere else please.



I just wanted to explain how he's another one of the nuisances that prevent me from having fun in the OBD and etc.  My bad.


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## SSNamor (Jul 8, 2012)

Bender said:


> I just wanted to explain how he's another one of the nuisances that prevent me from having fun in the OBD and etc.  My bad.


You can discuss all that somewhere else when all this here is done.


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## Mintaka (Jul 8, 2012)

> The difference between the OBD and other sections is that as they don't have dupes.
> 
> Anywhere near as frequently as the OBD does so it's really not a big issue there as it would be in the OBD.


Jizz says hi.

So do some people who would come and go at the cafe for a period of months before finally giving up ala Sagemode prime.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 8, 2012)

Jizz hits the OBD from time to time


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 8, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Jizz hits the OBD from time to time



Chuck Norris IIRC does as well.


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## Hatifnatten (Jul 8, 2012)

trash OBD

/problem


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## Gunners (Jul 8, 2012)

Provide with 10 beautiful women to add to my collection. 

/problem


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## SSNamor (Jul 8, 2012)

Another thing that has to be done, (even though at this point it's like talking to a wall since some off topic shit is coming up) There should be a bit of a restriction on whatever series is popular at the time. I'm not say people should stop making Legend of Korra threads or Asura's Wrath threads, but there should be a limit to the sheer number of them. 

Hell, If folks may recall, Asura's Wrath was getting wanked by people before it got released. Restrictions on that could keep it from happening again.


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## Gunners (Jul 8, 2012)

You know what rule I think should be in place ''Have fun, you're discussing one of the most irrelevant topics in life''. Fucking hell 26 pages already. Maybe I'm coming across as a dick right now but there comes a point in time where you have to sit down and think to yourself ''Is it worth me being so serious'', I mean yes this and that can be done, maybe the mods haven't done all they could but it is hardly a matter that greatly affects your life. 

Much of the problems you encounter can be dealt with by chilling the fuck down, using the ignore feature or ignoring the offending thread. That dupes are even paid the time of the day makes me wonder whether individuals have a masochistic personality and enjoy to complain, if the number of veteran posters out numbers the number of dupes (usually between 1-3) it shouldn't matter as there threads should sink into obscurity.



Mider T said:


> ITT: Distracted doesn't remember the days of sunshine & gasoline.


I remember that Honkie what happened to him?


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 8, 2012)

You always sound like a dick so that isn't really a shocker  Anyways, personally if I bother posting on a forum I'd like my experience to be enjoyable and quite frankly it hasn't been for a very long time. Sure I'm a bit bitter about this but that's human nature.


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## SSNamor (Jul 8, 2012)

I try to have fun too, but in a section like the OBD where some folks make it serious biz (see any thread with VectorPrime for a good example) ignoring them doesn't really work all that well.

We have people who follow other people to places like Youtube of all things just to continue arguments.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 8, 2012)

There is really nothing that can be done about the offsite stalking. Shit someone made a fake youtube account for Blue. But yeah between the loons that are constantly trying to be annoying, certain mods that are were way too uptight, the flood of fallacious reasoning, and the general hostility on all fronts it's not a fun place to be anymore. I only have so much patience and that usually doesn't survive a shopping trip.


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## Mider T (Jul 8, 2012)

Gunners said:


> I remember that Honkie what happened to him?



I think he started a family?

Last I checked he still logged on and talked to people, just didn't post anymore.


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## Keollyn (Jul 9, 2012)

I was asked to provide my input, but as I stare at the keyboard I realize...

I really don't care.


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## Reznor (Jul 9, 2012)

I'm too busy to wade through all the posts here at the moment.
Direct me to something specific if there was something for me specifically, needing more opinions or unresolved.

Crimson King: I made the Joke Battledome as a softer version of trashing a thread. It's more for moving threads to than it is for creating threads. Declutters OBD of such threads in my experience, though I don't know about now.

Toby and Naruto: Yeah, Evil Moogle wants to do sort some stuff out first.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 12, 2012)

Regarding the 50 post limit: I've never really had any intention of posting outside of the OBD. If such a limit had been in place before I joined, I'm not sure if I would have.

Just my $.02


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## Es (Jul 12, 2012)

The mods also need to stop going overboard on comments meant in jest against something in the OBD or around OBD'ers. For example Fang was perma banned from the Plasma Man FC for simply mocking EM for something he admits to not giving a shit about.Whenever people bash fictions in the OBD, it's what they do for fun, you take that from regulars and they have nothing to derive enjoyment from. And before you start on some bullshit about it being unfair to fans realize( I think this has been said before) several respected OBD'ers are fans of fictions that are disliked by a majority. We also don't need new rules


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## Reznor (Jul 15, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> Regarding the 50 post limit: I've never really had any intention of posting outside of the OBD. If such a limit had been in place before I joined, I'm not sure if I would have.
> 
> Just my $.02


Hmm.... That's a good point.


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## Barioth (Jul 18, 2012)

Well I am back. 

I think they problem is the calculation in the Meta-Battledome. People try to trade and equivocate Naruto's Ramen Cup with Luffy's Gomu Fruit, but no dice.

I highly against the process of new rule from the MODs. I would prefer self-regulation among the peers OBDers.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 18, 2012)

Anar G said:


> Well I am back.


This thread is largely pointless now, private talks are ongoing... somewhat. 



> I highly against the process of new rule from the MODs. I would prefer self-regulation among the peers OBDers.



Yeah that's totally not happening. Best we're getting is laying out the shit that makes the section unpleasant and making rules to deal with it.


----------



## Barioth (Jul 18, 2012)

Well that suck UD.  

Well I doubt the Mod will reinforce any NEW rules. It will the be the same, but worded differently or intensify from what I see in the OBD's timeline.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 18, 2012)

Who knows, nothing is set in stone just yet but ideas are being kicked around that are steps in the right direction.


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## Endless Mike (Jul 19, 2012)

Es said:


> Honestly the Joke Battledome is not funny. At all. People revile it and it will kill thread activity. Just because you Greed and Em can't take jokes doesn't mean you can kill fun



Just to note, my main complaint about these kinds of "jokes" is that they are stale and unfunny... this also applies to jokes that have nothing to do with me or any fiction I like. For example, I was the one who originally coined the term "Asselerator" but now even I think it's stale and lame.

The kind of jokes that most "offend" me though (if that's applicable), are the ones that put words in my mouth and try to make it seem like I said something, support something, or hold a viewpoint that I don't (for example, trying to say I'm a p*d*p****). I've just always had a major issue with people misrepresenting my views and opinions on any subject. It's especially infuriating when I take the time to carefully explain why someone is incorrect and tell them the truth, but then they just go and repeat the misrepresentation again (this also connects with my debating side, as I hate people who ignore evidence and keep making false claims over and over again). These things apply to any topic anyone is discussing.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 19, 2012)

Protip, it's a joke it's not supposed to be accurate.


----------



## Endless Mike (Jul 19, 2012)

I know, but other people who are not in on the joke might read it and get the wrong ideas. Either way people deliberately misrepresenting what I say has always pissed me off.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 19, 2012)

Do you honestly care what some random person thinks?


----------



## Endless Mike (Jul 19, 2012)

I just don't like being misrepresented. Never have, never will. It's something that is just ingrained in my psyche.


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## SSNamor (Jul 19, 2012)

Okay, can I request that this thread be locked?

Bender is in here starting stuff and we already have an area where people are trying to discuss this. So this thread isn't really needed anymore.


----------



## Es (Jul 19, 2012)

Can I get in on the other discussion already mods?


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## Barioth (Jul 19, 2012)

There is 10 days left if go by Toby Conduct.


----------



## SSNamor (Jul 19, 2012)

Yeah and only 10 days left for this account.

I ether need to get an extension on this one or be unbanned from my actual one. 

Ether or, That way I can still be in the conference room.


----------



## Barioth (Jul 19, 2012)

I was banned when this thread was still hot. Granted, I created a dupe(GrandGhidorah) before Toby's offer. 

Toby's offer granted an opportunity to create a duplicate. But I want to prove that not all user are desperate by Toby's offer.

I can understand your case SSnamor/Roman55. You were in fact, I heard was Permed Banned so its reasonable.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 19, 2012)

Talk to Moogle, he's the one approving people for the section.


----------



## Gunners (Jul 19, 2012)

Lol some noob pwnt the wikispace? Reminds me of Sentry reporting the comic thread.

E-Wars.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 19, 2012)

Bender that post was yesterday before any of this started  It's got nothing to do with what happened today. And Roman wasn't talking about this thread. Moogle made a section for private talks between us and the staff.


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## Gunners (Jul 19, 2012)

In all seriousness people need to learn how to control their emotions as opposed to giving the trolls what they want. When Kakashi* reported the wikispace his intentions were as clear as day, he wanted to spite and piss of a bunch of people so it would have actually been better to just ignore his statements or criticise him in private. 

If he was genuinely hurt by the contents of wikispace your insults would probably bother him but as his actions were more than likely out of spite he probably sat behind his computer screen with a smirk on his face. 

The above can also be applied to posters who provoke an argument only to start accusing the poster of flaming/being abrasive. I'm not going to name names but I have seen it throughout the section, in those situations it is clear that they're trying to create a volatile situation so that they can feel a sense of righteousness when they complain to the mod about the behavior typical to the section. 

Sometimes you really have to kill them with kindness. Section does have a problem with persistent trolls however much of reminds me of certain kids who got bullied for being easy targets. Certain individuals know that they can get under posters skins ( this 28 page thread is evidence of that) so they won't get bored of what they're doing because they are rewarded by the complaints. 

If they were just ignored and banned they'd eventually stop as ultimately they crave attention.


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## EJ (Jul 19, 2012)

^ I think I know one of those members you are talking about Gunners. 

It's how the mods handle some situations in general though. They ban the right people(some times), but at the same time let the wrong people off the hook.


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## The Great Oneddd (Jul 19, 2012)

First off I can't believe this thread is still going. This is one unique forum I would say. 




Flow said:


> ^ I think I know one of those members you are talking about Gunners.
> 
> It's how the mods handle some situations in general though. They ban the right people(some times), but at the same time let the wrong people off the hook.





See rule 25, 26, and 112.

And this is also a childrens forums being basically ran by people with little to no interest in things out side of their own. It's an unwritten Internet rule.

Also relax, things always get better in the long run.


----------



## Toby (Jul 19, 2012)

*This thread remains open and I will maintain that no offtopic posts get to stay. I will send all access requests to access the OBD conference room to Moogle. 

As always, those who wish to participate constructively are welcome.*


----------



## Endless Mike (Jul 19, 2012)

Regarding the whole "don't flame KG" thing, even if he gets off on it it at least helps the people whose work he ruined vent their frustration. However the argument "flaming him won't bring back the wiki" is just monumentally stupid. According to that logic, we should never put a murderer in jail or punish them at all, just let them go, because nothing we can do will bring back their victims.


----------



## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 20, 2012)

I'd like to participate in the conference too if that's alright.


----------



## Barioth (Jul 20, 2012)

*Constructive Argument? Or Constructive Appearance?*

Less than 10 days. Because I was banned for 14-15 days. However fair enough. I will obliged to Toby condition for now.

Short story of Anar G.

*Spoiler*: __ 



Where do I start? I joined Narutoforums back at April 2011. April 23 to be exact. My first interest was Naruto Avenue specifically. A year has passed around May 2012 and I lost interest in Naruto Avenue. So I left and start posting in OBD more frequently.




OBD Regulars

*Spoiler*: __ 



Apparently I ran loose ends and felt this place was vast. I even post a blog about leaving OBD. However, certain OBDers kept my interest about the place.




OBD Self-Regulation Pt1

*Spoiler*: __ 



I propose self-regulation, for the fact some peers are able to kept some of us in line. Even when things get out of hand as usual.




OBD Meta-BattleDome and Calculation

*Spoiler*: __ 



Most of the problem I see are resides within the Meta-Battledome. As a joke I stated earlier: People try to trade Ramen cups to Gomu fruits. 

From where I see: ChaosTheory123, KaiserWombat, Brohan, Nevermind, GodMovement and others veteran? tend to hold the most calculation blogs.




OBD Economic?

*Spoiler*: __ 



I have to say Economically a Calc system would be nice. Problem is with limited spaced? Are we using space for more rules or more system function?




This is all for now.


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## Monna (Jul 20, 2012)

I just hope that the wiki is restored, and its users are notified about its return.


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## Spy_Smasher (Jul 20, 2012)

The Great One said:


> This is one unique forum I would say.



You got that right.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Jul 20, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Regarding the whole "don't flame KG" thing, even if he gets off on it it at least helps the people whose work he ruined vent their frustration. However the argument "flaming him won't bring back the wiki" is just monumentally stupid. According to that logic, we should never put a murderer in jail or punish them at all, just let them go, because nothing we can do will bring back their victims.


that analogy is stupid and you know it


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## Zenith (Jul 20, 2012)

I'm not a memeber of the OBD,but I can say from a non partisan standpoint that self regulation like what the poster above me is suggesting is not the way,as it's the 1st step to anarchy and rebellion.Also I liked what Gunners said,about the emotion stuff;to kill a troll,or an attention whore at bay,act like _it _doens't exist(it) and see if it doesn't go away

same thing for the dupes and etc,report them and get the banned asap,and move on

it's really simple,but people seem to take themselves way too seriously and forget to enjoy the interwebz and not fight 

this applies to all battleoriented sections of course,as I'm a NBD regular,I have my fair share of heated debates under the belt,not as heated as the OBD but yeah I know what is to engage in several pages quote wars and etc




> You got that right.


 


oh you


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## Barioth (Jul 20, 2012)

Lt Iceman said:


> I'm not a memeber of the OBD,but I can say from a non partisan standpoint that self regulation like what the poster above me is suggesting is not the way,as it's the *1st step to anarchy and rebellion.* Also I liked what Gunners said,about the emotion stuff;to kill a troll,or an attention whore at bay,act like _it _doens't exist(it) and see if it doesn't go away



Toby: Don't start it.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 20, 2012)

It's funny you don't realize how much of a slippery slope that is. If you want the section to run like that you can't exactly complain if the staff starts arbitrarily removing people they don't like. I really don't want to open the door for that.


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## Barioth (Jul 20, 2012)

Personally my suggestion specifically is that consequently I don't want Meta-Battledome to be strictly moderate in the future.

I already know my suggestion has both Pros and Cons.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 20, 2012)

Why exactly do you think it would be strictly moderated? Every single idea being considered is stuff we came up with to deal with behavior we don't like. Nether Moogle nor Toby have suggested anything beyond wording which we have to sign off on.


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## Barioth (Jul 20, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Why exactly do you think it would be strictly moderated? Every single idea being considered is stuff we came up with to deal with behavior we don't like. Nether Moogle nor Toby have suggested anything beyond wording which we have to sign off on.



As usual you will have people disagree with calculation, tiers, *OBD terms*(Note: OBD Terminology is heavily watched.)

Practical sense>Control Meta-Dome>Control half of the matches>Unless it is challenge and disproved in theory.

I looking forward a Currency  to be done with Meta-Dome. Calc system as I stated earlier. I am already impress with Calc Storage from the Blogs.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 20, 2012)

In short you're paranoid, gotcha.



			
				EvilMoogle said:
			
		

> What do we do?  I'm not here to dictate my ideal rules to the OBD.  I know I'm very far removed from the day-to-day debate in the OBD.  I'm here to hear what you think are the best ways to improve the section.



Yep, totally where we're headed


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## Barioth (Jul 20, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> In short you're paranoid, gotcha.


 Maybe and maybe not. However, there are ways to go around it. As I stated before disprove theory of what not. If weren't for some recent event perhaps I should close my mouth about it.



*Spoiler*: __ 



Hi Moogle. Still waiting for the response.


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## Reznor (Jul 23, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> I know, but other people who are not in on the joke might read it and get the wrong ideas. Either way people deliberately misrepresenting what I say has always pissed me off.
> 
> I just don't like being misrepresented. Never have, never will. It's something that is just ingrained in my psyche.



Welcome to being everyone else.


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## Thdyingbreed (Jul 25, 2012)

I have another suggestion would it be possible to have threads locked where one side has a character with little to no feats.

Especially in HST threads as these tend to cause shitstorms in those topics.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jul 25, 2012)

Don't worry, we already brought that up.


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## MitsukiShiroi (Jul 31, 2012)

... Wait, this is still an ongoing issue?


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## dream (Aug 1, 2012)

MitsukiShiroi said:


> ... Wait, this is still an ongoing issue?



Yes, hopefully things will improve as a result of the various discussions OBDers and some members of the staff had lately.


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## MitsukiShiroi (Aug 1, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Yes, hopefully things will improve as a result of the various discussions OBDers and some members of the staff had lately.



Hope so too-- this should've been resolved _months_ ago.


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## SSNamor (Aug 1, 2012)

More like years.


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## mali (Aug 1, 2012)

how about we all get high together and be friends??

win win situation for errbody


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## Big Mom (Aug 8, 2012)

I still believe stronger moderation is needed in the FC section and OBD section.


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## Bender (Aug 8, 2012)

Mali said:


> how about we all get high together and be friends??
> 
> win win situation for errbody



Welcome to something I proposed at the beginning of this thread. 


Congrats to OBD for getting back the convo. The lesson learned: the less shit making that is caused the less shit that goes down on you. It's the rule that is the commandment on every section in the forum.


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