# Big Mom vs Zoro and Marco



## Eustathios (Feb 10, 2022)

Instead of holding off King and Queen, Marco decides to join the Rooftop battle with Zoro as his partner. He warns Luffy that Big Mom is more dangerous than he thinks and requests he take her on. He then tells Zoro he'll need his help. Luffy agrees, saying he wanted to beat Kaido first anyway. Big Mom is serious from the start here as she wants to finish what she started with Marco and give a lesson to these brats.

Can the most powerful offensive might and the greatest defense of the alliance take her down?

_*Note*: Zoro has already awakened CoC imbuing_


*Spoiler*: __ 











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*Spoiler*:  






_

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## Shunsuiju (Feb 10, 2022)

Zoro and Marco in a very tough fight.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Maruo (Feb 10, 2022)

Big Mom very high to extreme diff. This is basically the current fight in terms of power levels except Law's switched out for Zoro and Kid's switched out for Marco. Marco would be more useful here than Kid, but this wouldn't quite be enough to bring the team to victory.

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## Mihawk (Feb 10, 2022)

I'd love to go with this duo, but sadly I think Big Mom wills herself to a win. 

She's so unstoppable and nigh-invincible that I don't think 2 FM+ level fighters are going to cut it. Zoro's offence is, as you say, potentially the best in the entire alliance. Coupled with Marco's own defensive abilities and physical attributes, they make for a wonderful combination. 

However, Big Mom has too much up her sleeve and far too much haxx in her arsenal. Her regenerative powers pretty much makes Marco's looks tame; and while he has a counter to Prometheus, he sadly doesn't have the firepower necessary to force her to her limits. Zoro may have enough now with Enma in hand along with CoC abilities, but Big Mom is simply too resourceful even if she gets heavily damaged and injured by Zoro's heavy attacks. 

She also has the strength and techniques to overpower them, so I'm going with BM in a pretty high-difficulty battle.

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## Germa 66 (Feb 10, 2022)

Either of the team alone pushes her to high diff…

 Zoro and Marco remind the world why no one fears Big Meme

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## gunchar (Feb 10, 2022)

Marco can stall BM and Zoro can actually damage her to a degree, but that's about it, it takes a while cause of Marco but BM definitely wins if Zoro don't comes back with a Bankai from his Shinigami experience.

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## ShadoLord (Feb 10, 2022)

Zoro and Marco easily. Marco takes the hit for the duo and Zoro cripples her with his advCoC blade.

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## Van Basten (Feb 10, 2022)

Weaker team than Law/Kid.

Big Mom very high diff.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## ShadoLord (Feb 10, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> I'd love to go with this duo, but sadly I think Big Mom wills herself to a win.
> 
> She's so unstoppable and nigh-invincible that I don't think 2 FM+ level fighters are going to cut it. Zoro's offence is, as you say, potentially the best in the entire alliance. Coupled with Marco's own defensive abilities and physical attributes, they make for a wonderful combination.
> 
> ...


Marco alone will take out all her homies. His phoenix flames KO those entities.


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## Germa 66 (Feb 10, 2022)

Not people thinking Zoro or Marco but especially Zoro is weaker than Law and Kid lmao


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## MO (Feb 10, 2022)

big mom mid diff. Law's attacks are much more powerful than anything Zoro has displayed and were bypassing her durability, and she still was getting up from them. Zoro isn't doing much to her. Especially without pis where she isn't just standing there and tanking. If she actually decides to haki up on top of her already insane durability. Zoro is mildly damaging her at best and macro isn't. And even if they somehow actually damage her pretty good. She will just heal. So yeah she's winning without too much difficulty.

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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Feb 10, 2022)

MO said:


> big mom mid diff. Law's attacks are much more powerful than anything Zoro has displayed and were bypassing her durability, and she still was getting up from them. Zoro isn't doing much to her. Especially without pis where she isn't just standing there and tanking. If she actually decides to haki up on top of her already insane durability. Zoro is mildly damaging her at best and macro isn't. And even if they somehow actually damage her pretty good. She will just heal. So yeah she's winning without too much difficulty.


Wow a serious post from MO.


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## ShadoLord (Feb 10, 2022)

MO said:


> big mom mid diff. Law's attacks are much more powerful than anything Zoro has displayed and were bypassing her durability, and she still was getting up from them. Zoro isn't doing much to her. Especially without pis where she isn't just standing there and tanking. If she actually decides to haki up on top of her already insane durability. Zoro is mildly damaging her at best and macro isn't. And even if they somehow actually damage her pretty good. She will just heal. So yeah she's winning without too much difficulty.


what a joke

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## Inferno Jewls (Feb 10, 2022)

Big Mom very high diff


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## Ludi (Feb 10, 2022)

Big mom isn't beating a similar strong team than the one she loses to

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## Kroczilla (Feb 10, 2022)

Big mom high diffs 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Law and Kid are imho the superior team, and if the latest spoilers are anything to go by, even they would have lost but for plot + island busting bombs + law happening to have a convenient ability. And even then, all they managed was a Bfr.

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## Germa 66 (Feb 10, 2022)

She definitely dies. A weaker team is clowning her.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## DarkRasengan (Feb 10, 2022)

Zoro has the AP to do damage and marco has the stats and defense to engage her. Marco creates openings and zoro does damage extreme diff win for the duo

Reactions: Agree 4


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## MYJC (Feb 10, 2022)

Big Mom wins. Without hax like Law has they lack the AP to take her out. 

She can easily tank and/or recover from anything they do.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Dunno (Feb 10, 2022)

Zoro soloes. Big Mom lost to King, and Zoro beat King. A > B > C

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## Sablés (Feb 10, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> I'd love to go with this duo, but sadly I think Big Mom wills herself to a win.
> 
> She's so unstoppable and nigh-invincible that I don't think 2 FM+ level fighters are going to cut it. Zoro's offence is, as you say, potentially the best in the entire alliance. Coupled with Marco's own defensive abilities and physical attributes, they make for a wonderful combination.
> 
> ...


This analysis is only true  on-paper however. Most of the time, Linlin's combinations and strategies end up failing spectacularly, even when they initially succeed.

It'll take a lot to put her down, but Marco's the Ultimate meatshield while Zoro's attack power is high enough. They can pull it off eventually.


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## Kroczilla (Feb 10, 2022)

Okay, I'm seeing folks talking up Marco's credentials as a meat shield. Which is fair. However, I doubt Marco will last long from the ferocity of her attacks especially if she uses AdCoc. Particularly as King and Queen pushed him to his limits fairly quickly. As for Zoro, he isn't doing any real harm without AdCoc and once he pulls that out, they are effectively on a timer as he can only maintain it for a few minutes. 

I don't think Zoro's attacks are anywhere as powerful as what Big mom took from Law to her internal organs. Even if they were, there's the fact that Law's attacks completely bypass durability i.e. Zoro's attacks would still have to cut through her ridiculously tough skin + armament haki before it can even do damage. Even IF both attacks have the same power behind them, he isn't doing nearly as much damage as Law could. 

There's also the fact that big mom can heal injuries once they get serious enough. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Again, if a superior duo couldn't put her down, I don't see how these two get it done

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## Shunsuiju (Feb 10, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> Okay, I'm seeing folks talking up Marco's credentials as a meat shield. Which is fair. However, I doubt Marco will last long from the ferocity of her attacks especially if she uses AdCoc. Particularly as King and Queen pushed him to his limits fairly quickly. As for Zoro, he isn't doing any real harm without AdCoc and once he pulls that out, they are effectively on a timer as he can only maintain it for a few minutes.
> 
> I don't think Zoro's attacks are anywhere as powerful as what Big mom took from Law to her internal organs. Even if they were, there's the fact that Law's attacks completely bypass durability i.e. Zoro's attacks would still have to cut through her ridiculously tough skin + armament haki before it can even do damage. Even IF both attacks have the same power behind them, he isn't doing nearly as much damage as Law could.
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



Superior? I don't know about that; they're on the same level. And Law and Kid won, the narrator said it. Clearly Oda thinks 2 people of that caliber can take on and defeat her


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## TheWiggian (Feb 11, 2022)

Duo mid-high diff. Marco is the perfect shield and Zoro the perfect sword.

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## Kroczilla (Feb 11, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Superior? I don't know about that; they're on the same level. And Law and Kid won, the narrator said it. Clearly Oda thinks 2 people of that caliber can take on and defeat her



*Spoiler*: __ 



Not really. At the moment based on feats, either Kid or Law > Marco and and each arguably stronger than Zoro. Also there is no debate in the fact that they won. However it's not in doubt that said victory only came under circumstances that obviously wouldn't factor in a straight up battle e.g. plot, a flying island which big mom could be forced off of and island busting bombs. And even then they only succeeded in a Bfr as opposed to knock out.  
Also it should be recalled that the most consistently stated objective of the battle was to prevent her from getting back to Kaido's side on the roof. Which they accomplished hence they were the victors.


 



TheWiggian said:


> Marco is the perfect shield and Zoro the perfect sword.


Kid is just as effective a shield. Law is unarguably the superior sword ATM.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Corax (Feb 11, 2022)

Zoro as an ultimate sword and Marco as an ultimate shield. In this match they should win. Marco also has an ability to heal and he can negate BM's homies.

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## Gokou08 (Feb 11, 2022)

_I don't think Zoro had better AP than Kidd+Law, Marco doesn't have AP to do significantly damage to BM, it took all Kidd and Law had to halt BM and she was going to beat them if not for PIS, especially you have to conspired Law's room made BM not able to seek homies help IIRC.

Isn't Marco not afraid of BM?
I can say for Sure Zoro doesn't give two shits about her but I'm not sure if Marco isn't.

Either way, BM high Diffs, Law and Kidd>Marco and Zoro, and they still barely edge it out._

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## TheWiggian (Feb 11, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> Kid is just as effective a shield. Law is unarguably the superior sword ATM.



Neither is. Marco is superior to Kid in any form of defense, he withstood attacks from the likes of Sakazuki and Kizaru. Kid doesn't have that luxury.

Law being the superior sword is laughable. Just because Big Mom is not used to damage inflicted on her, doesn't mean Law can cause more damage. In the end he only destroyed some rock.

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## Eustathios (Feb 11, 2022)

Gokou08 said:


> _I don't think Zoro had better AP than Kidd+Law, Marco doesn't have AP to do significantly damage to BM, it took all Kidd and Law had to halt BM and she was going to beat them if not for PIS, especially you have to conspired Law's room made BM not able to seek homies help IIRC.
> 
> Isn't Marco not afraid of BM?
> I can say for Sure Zoro doesn't give two shits about her but I'm *not sure if Marco isn't.*
> ...


Obviously he isn't if he was willing to fight her on his own. Even Jinbei is not afraid of her, let alone the likes of Marco

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## Gokou08 (Feb 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Obviously he isn't if he was willing to fight her on his own. Even Jinbei is not afraid of her, let alone the likes of Marco


On MF there was stronger characters than Luffy scared of WB and Luffy wasn't. 
Fear isn't related to strength, one person can be super weak and fearless while the other could be complete opposite.

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## Eustathios (Feb 11, 2022)

Gokou08 said:


> On MF there was stronger characters than Luffy scared of WB and Luffy wasn't.
> Fear isn't related to strength, one person can be super weak and fearless while the other could be complete opposite.


Luffy had little knowledge of Whitebeard and Marco is a veteran of 30+ years who participated in battles against the Roger Pirates of all people. Seems weird to think he's afraid of Big Mom, especially when he was so eager to fight her.

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## Mercurial (Feb 11, 2022)

Zoro + a YC1, be it Marco, King or Katakuri, can't defeat a top tier.

Make it two Zoros, or Zoro + Law, Zoro + Yamato, Zoro + Chapter 1010 Rufy and they definitely win.

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## Gokou08 (Feb 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Luffy had little knowledge of Whitebeard and Marco is a veteran of 30+ years who participated in battles against the Roger Pirates of all people. Seems weird to think he's afraid of Big Mom, especially when he was so eager to fight her.


Well then you have the Admirals. 
I'm not saying Marco 100% fears BM, I'm saying there is a possibility, second fighting someone doesn't mean you're not scared of it, although I particularly agree on this case.


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## Subtle (Feb 11, 2022)

Zoro and Marco win Mid Diff,

When you have an exceptional offense (in Zoro) and defence (in Marco), you won't be losing to BM, especially considering this team is better and will produce better results than Law and Kidd.

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## Shunsuiju (Feb 11, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



You're really stretching the definition of victor there.

Marco is a way better shield than Kid and Zoro has the best offense out of the four, what are you talking about?






Gokou08 said:


> _Isn't Marco not afraid of BM?
> I can say for Sure Zoro doesn't give two shits about her but I'm not sure if Marco isn't._


I'm pretty sure Marco's not afraid of Big Mom:


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## gunchar (Feb 11, 2022)

Subtle said:


> Zoro and Marco win Mid Diff,



There never was any time were bullshit like this wasn't absolutely delusional.



Subtle said:


> especially considering this team is better and will produce better results than Law and Kidd.


But even this is beyond delusional at this point, and that literally the only case for the duo is to pretend they are stronger than ever shown to be speaks for itself, and that is not even taking into account what was actually all needed to happen in the newest chapter.

Zoro fanboys and BM haters on the fanverse really need to cut down on the drugs, barely anything they claim is even remotely reasonable.

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## Kroczilla (Feb 11, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



 - SNIP -

Marco isn't a better shield. He can regen and Kid can continuously reassemble his junk armours on top of having superior attacking ability by a large margin on top of the ability to effectively restrain or even disarm his opponent with assign. Not even going to humour the Zoro x Law comparison. Law quite literally ignores conventional durability and his DC feats shit on anything Zoro has ever accomplished. It's not even a contest.


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## convict (Feb 11, 2022)

Even spoiler tags are not enough for new chapter spoilers we have to avoid talking about them until Sunday.

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## Shunsuiju (Feb 11, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Scrap armor that Big Mom can cut through like butter isn't helping Kid with anything. Marco can take any attack and walk it off like nothing, sure he has a limit but I really don't see the comparison. By your logic Cracker is just as good a shield as Marco.

If Law ignored durability then he would be the most powerful character by a long shot. Zoro's can now also use internal attacks, and they are far more powerful than Law's.

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## Kroczilla (Feb 12, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Scrap armor that Big Mom can cut through like butter isn't helping Kid with anything. Marco can take any attack and walk it off like nothing, sure he has a limit but I really don't see the comparison. By your logic Cracker is just as good a shield as Marco.


Scrap metal which can be re-assembled with ease and can protect against damage from a Yonko's attacks. Kid has lasted longer 2v1 against an emperor than Marco did against foes whom said Emperor would steamroll. 

Also your Cracker analogy holds no water. Kid's armour has much better feats on top of his superior offensive options and awakening hax.


Shunsuiju said:


> If Law ignored durability then he would be the most powerful character by a long shot. Zoro's can now also use internal attacks, and they are far more powerful than Law's.


???????? 

Law's attacks ignoring conventional durability is a canon fact. He literally attacks his opponents from the inside. Since when can Zoro use internal attacks? That's news to me and I assume 99.9% of the other users here. By feats Law's attacks are above Zoro's to a frankly ludicrous extent.

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## Shunsuiju (Feb 12, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> Scrap metal which can be re-assembled with ease* and can protect against damage from a Yonko's attacks. *


Based on what? It's just scrap.


Kroczilla said:


> Kid has lasted longer 2v1 against an emperor than Marco did against foes whom said Emperor would steamroll.


You know that's terrible comparison. Kid was with 4 other people on Marco's level up on that roof and he did the worst out of all of them.


Kroczilla said:


> Also your Cracker analogy holds no water. Kid's armour has much better feats on top of his superior offensive options and awakening hax.


You're all over the place. I never said Kid's defense was weaker than Cracker's or even equal and I certainly never brought up Cracker's offense or awakening.

If Big Mom slashes into Kid's scrap it will go right through like we saw and cut cleanly into Kid's body. Big Mom will make a mark on Marco's body that's for sure, but he will be able to regenerate afterward. With Zoro there to split the damage in half, Marco should have more room to regenerate than he did in the 2 on 1.


Kroczilla said:


> ????????
> 
> Law's attacks ignoring conventional durability is a canon fact. He literally attacks his opponents from the inside.


Just because Law attacks from the inside of the body it doesn't mean he ignores durability. If that was true, he would have one shot Big Mom already.


Kroczilla said:


> Since when can Zoro use internal attacks? That's news to me and I assume 99.9% of the other users here.


Isn't that literally what aCoC is?


Kroczilla said:


> By feats Law's attacks are above Zoro's to a frankly ludicrous extent.


You must be trolling.

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## charles101 (Feb 12, 2022)

With all these BM threads, let's not forget huge portion of that fight was Law bypassing her defence with his hax ability. Does this mean Law is overall crazy powerful? No, but if he lands a hit, it will hurt. A lot. So just because dude strong enough to make BM busy for Law to land a hit (+bit of luck/plot) could beat them doesn't mean that people about as strong as them in 1 vs 1 could replicate that.

to;dr
Law is the best support you can pray for in a team fight. Other people at his general level won't contribute to team as much as he can with their strength alone

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## Kroczilla (Feb 12, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Based on what? It's just scrap


Based on feats.


Shunsuiju said:


> You know that's terrible comparison. Kid was with 4 other people on Marco's level up on that roof and he did the worst out of all of them.


Not sure how this has any bearing on the fact that his junk can take and reassemble from Yonko lvl attacks. Or the fact that he has offensive capabilities superior to Marco's.


Shunsuiju said:


> You're all over the place. I never said Kid's defense was weaker than Cracker's or even equal and I certainly never brought up Cracker's offense or awakening


You made a direct comparison between them. 


Shunsuiju said:


> If Big Mom slashes into Kid's scrap it will go right through like we saw and cut cleanly into Kid's body


Where exactly did Big mom's attack cut cleanly through Kid's body? She made use of her blade all through and that never happened.


Shunsuiju said:


> Mom will make a mark on Marco's body that's for sure, but he will be able to regenerate afterward. With Zoro there to split the damage in half, Marco should have more room to regenerate than he did in the 2 on 1.


It's a good thing Big mom packs far more power than all the Calamities combined. Marco is going down in even fewer hits especially if they are AdCoc enhanced.


Shunsuiju said:


> Just because Law attacks from the inside of the body it doesn't mean he ignores durability. If that was true, he would have one shot Big Mom already


Keyword, Conventional durability. As in her defenses were useless against them. 


Shunsuiju said:


> Isn't that literally what aCoC is?


Nope. 


Shunsuiju said:


> You must be trolling.


Go ahead and bring up anything from Zoro that even begins the approach puncture Willie.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Chip Skylark (Feb 12, 2022)

Kroc is right


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 12, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> Based on feats.
> 
> Not sure how this has any bearing on the fact that his junk can take and reassemble from Yonko lvl attacks. Or the fact that he has offensive capabilities superior to Marco's.
> 
> ...


Big Mom cut through Eustass' armor in the most recent chapter

Having infinite useless armor << Marco's regen


Kroczilla said:


> Keyword, Conventional durability. As in her defenses were useless against them.


Durability is the ability to withstand wear, pressure, or damage.

If Law could bypass durability Big Mom would not be able to withstand any attack from him


Kroczilla said:


> Nope.
> 
> Go ahead and bring up anything from Zoro that even begins the approach puncture Willie.


If you actually think Law's attacks are above Zoro's to a ludicrous extent you are way off the deep end


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 12, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Kroc is right


Prove it, buddy

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## Kroczilla (Feb 12, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Big Mom cut through Eustass' armor in the most recent chapter


Yeah... And the junk reformed after doing its job of protecting Kid. 


Shunsuiju said:


> Having infinite useless armor << Marco's regen


Having armour that can protect against attacks from a Yonko and reform immediately after sustaining damage is just as useful tbh. Add Kid's superior offensive ability and awakening hax, and you've got yourself a better "shield" than Marco


Shunsuiju said:


> Durability is the ability to withstand wear, pressure, or damage.


I feel like you're missing the whole "conventional" part of the equation.


Shunsuiju said:


> If Law could bypass durability Big Mom would not be able to withstand any attack from him


See above.


Shunsuiju said:


> If you actually think Law's attacks are above Zoro's to a ludicrous extent you are way off the deep end


The facts are in my favour, friend.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 12, 2022)

Shun is right

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## JayK (Feb 12, 2022)

Sorry Yonkobros but Bigger Meme takes her 5th L in her 5th thread this month.

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## Germa 66 (Feb 12, 2022)

Obviously Zoro can hit as hard as Law and Mid

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## TheWiggian (Feb 12, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> Obviously Zoro can hit as hard as Law and Mid



Zoro hits far harder, these guys cannot even damage the likes of her without hax that bypass the shell. 

Zoro straight up cuts through the shell and injures the core in the process.

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## TheNirou (Feb 12, 2022)

Duo definitely win with high-extreme diff, the team is really strong and versatile for any Mid top tier characters.

Zoro has enough AP to damage her according to his feats, he will be the sword here. Marco can also damage her with AdCoA but he will be the shield here, if Law and Kidd can survive against her then Marco can easily survive and regen. 

Marco can deal with her homies and protects his mate whereas Zoro can do serious damage with Shishi sonson, KoH or Ashura. It will be a tough fight but they win this after 20 to 30 minutes.

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## Germa 66 (Feb 12, 2022)

Big Mom has more fear here than she showed for Law’s Kroom attacks @TheWiggian

Reactions: Agree 2


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## TheWiggian (Feb 12, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> Big Mom has more fear here than she showed for Law’s Kroom attacks @TheWiggian



Yeah and to your deleted post. Zoro is still stronger than Law and Kid, no objections.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Empathy (Feb 12, 2022)

I have Zoro and Marco a little above both Law and Kid, so the duo should win it.

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## Shunsuiju (Feb 12, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> Yeah... And the junk reformed after doing its job of protecting Kid.


It didn't hit Kid.


Kroczilla said:


> Having armour that can protect against attacks from a Yonko and reform immediately after sustaining damage is just as useful tbh.


You have still yet to provide an example of Kid's "scrap" protecting him from a Yonko's attack.


Kroczilla said:


> Add Kid's superior offensive ability and awakening hax, and you've got yourself a better "shield" than Marco


That has nothing to do with being a shield.


Kroczilla said:


> I feel like you're missing the whole "conventional" part of the equation.


I'm missing the part where that puts his attacks above Zoro's who can also use internal attacks.


Kroczilla said:


> The facts are in my favour, friend.


Which facts?


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## Kroczilla (Feb 12, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> It didn't hit Kid.


Yeah. Coz his junk took the bulk of the damage


Shunsuiju said:


> You have still yet to provide an example of Kid's "scrap" protecting him from a Yonko's attack.


Here: 



Shunsuiju said:


> That has nothing to do with being a shield.


It does though. The best defence is an attack. Kidd being the better attacker effectively means he can contribute more to the fight that just being a meat suit.


Shunsuiju said:


> I'm missing the part where that puts his attacks above Zoro's *who can also use internal attacks.*


Again, since when?


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 13, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> Yeah. Coz his junk took the bulk of the damage
> 
> Here:




He is sitting on top of a pile of junk, the armor isn't doing anything to protect him. If Big Mom attacked Kid there, the armor wouldn't have protected him because she easily cut through it.

If she sliced through Marco's body he would just morph back together. What part of this don't you understand?

Kid having the same defensive ability as Marco is such an out of left field take and I don't know why you're choosing to die on this hill.


Kroczilla said:


> Again, since when?

Reactions: Winner 3


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## gunchar (Feb 13, 2022)

JayK said:


> Sorry Yonkobros but Bigger Meme takes her 5th L in her 5th thread this month.




BM is blatantly winning the poll, and that in a thread against Mister Overwanked Zoro himself plus notable help.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kroczilla (Feb 13, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> He is sitting on top of a pile of junk, the armor isn't doing anything to protect him. If Big Mom attacked Kid there, the armor wouldn't have protected him because she easily cut through it.


I guess we are referring to different scenes then. But regardless, apart from the fact that it isn't that easy to score a direct hit on him, couldn't one also argue that that particular attack would go right through Marco and threaten Zoro as well?


Shunsuiju said:


> If she sliced through Marco's body he would just morph back together. What part of this don't you understand?


True Marco can heal, but as I have stated Kid's defense as well as having the superior offense and moveset makes him atleast just as useful a shield as Marco

In this particular fight, Big mom has little to fear from Marco's attacks, which means she will be able to put her attention on blocking Zoro's own attacks and wearing Marco down with attacks from Hera. And that's without mentioning the fact that Zoro has a very short time limit within which to make any impact.



Shunsuiju said:


> Kid having the same defensive ability as Marco is such an out of left field take and I don't know why you're choosing to die on this hill.


See above. It's a combination of his entire attributes, offensive ability included

Also come on man, how is that an example of Zoro using internal attacks? barrier haki isn't the same thing as internal destruction haki.


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## Chip Skylark (Feb 13, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> I guess we are referring to different scenes then. But regardless, apart from the fact that it isn't that easy to score a direct hit on him, couldn't one also argue that that particular attack would go right through Marco and threaten Zoro as well?


He actually has a point there. Kidd is always sitting on top of his autobot in the cockpit, so the particular scene doesn’t really matter. Marco actually has feats of stopping attacks in their tracks. Like when he defended WB, or Zoro. Granted, that’s not Marco’s regular durability and he has to use a technique to accomplish that.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Kroczilla (Feb 13, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> He actually has a point there. Kidd is always sitting on top of his autobot in the cockpit, so the particular scene doesn’t really matter. Marco actually has feats of stopping attacks in their tracks. Like when he defended WB, or Zoro. Granted, that’s not Marco’s regular durability and he has to use a technique to accomplish that.


Eh... I'm agree that he has a point. However as I have said, it's not just Kid's junk but also the fact that he can make a bigger contribution to the fight than Marco in terms of offensive ability. That factors into why I believe he's overall just as effective a shield.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 13, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> I guess we are referring to different scenes then. But regardless, apart from the fact that it isn't that easy to score a direct hit on him, couldn't one also argue that that particular attack would go right through Marco and threaten Zoro as well?


Shouldn't be hard to hit him she just thought his armor was his body.

I don't think Zoro would stand directly behind Marco.


Kroczilla said:


> True Marco can heal, but as I have stated Kid's defense as well as having the superior offense and moveset makes him atleast just as useful a shield as Marco


For the hundredth time, Kid's offense has nothing to do with this discussion. I never wanted to discuss his offense, as I think it's pretty clear when you used the term "shield" that you meant defense, so it's pretty bad faith that you keep bringing it up when you're losing the defense argument.


Kroczilla said:


> In this particular fight, Big mom has little to fear from Marco's attacks, which means she will be able to put her attention on blocking Zoro's own attacks and wearing Marco down with attacks from Hera. And that's without mentioning the fact that Zoro has a very short time limit within which to make any impact.


Hera can hold off Marco. 

You've lost the plot.


Kroczilla said:


> See above. It's a combination of his entire attributes, offensive ability included


I said:

_"Kid having the same defensive ability as Marco"_

And you're reply is:

_"It's a combination of his entire attributes, offensive ability included"_

You can see that this is very hard for me to debate in good faith


Kroczilla said:


> Also come on man, how is that an example of Zoro using internal attacks? barrier haki isn't the same thing as internal destruction haki.



*Spoiler*: __ 










Kroczilla said:


> Eh... I'm agree that he has a point. However as I have said, it's not just Kid's junk but also the fact that he can make a bigger contribution to the fight than Marco in terms of offensive ability. That factors into why I believe he's overall just as effective a shield.


In which case, on this point, I do not disagree with you at all. I never stated that Marco is above Kid as an overall player here, just that his defense is clearly better.


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## Kroczilla (Feb 13, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Shouldn't be hard to hit him she just thought his armor was his body.
> 
> I don't think Zoro would stand directly behind Marco


Shouldn't be hard for him to jump out of the way.

The entire basis of your argument is that Marco is Zoro's shield. That would almost certainly mean he would try to put himself btwn Zoro and Big mom.




Shunsuiju said:


> For the hundredth time, Kid's offense has nothing to do with this discussion. I never wanted to discuss his offense, as I think it's pretty clear when you used the term "shield" that you meant defense, so it's pretty bad faith that you keep bringing it up when you're losing the defense argument.


Okay fine. I concede. Marco is the superior shield. But Kid is the more balanced combatant which is far more useful against someone like Big mom. Unlike with Kid and Law who were both threats to her, she doesn't have much to fear from Marco i.e. she can afford to put most of her attention on stopping Zoro's offense.


Shunsuiju said:


> Hera can hold off Marco.
> 
> You've lost the plot.


Where exactly did I say that? I clearly said wear him down i.e. big mom using lightning attacks to wear down Marco's regen.


Shunsuiju said:


> I said:
> 
> _"Kid having the same defensive ability as Marco"_
> 
> ...


See above.

Also internal destruction haki is unique to Luffy. I would advise you go re-read the Udon training portion of Wano. Zoro doesn't have it.


Shunsuiju said:


> In which case, on this point, I do not disagree with you at all. I never stated that Marco is above Kid as an overall player here, just that his defense is clearly better.


Alright then. Kid being better as an overall player makes him more useful than Marco against big mom. Ergo this current team is weaker and don't stand a chance.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Feb 14, 2022)

Reminder that Law and Kidd needed plot bombs to "win". 

Carry on.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 14, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> Shouldn't be hard for him to jump out of the way.
> 
> The entire basis of your argument is that Marco is Zoro's shield. That would almost certainly mean he would try to put himself btwn Zoro and Big mom.


I'm not sure I'm buying your premise.


Kroczilla said:


> Okay fine. I concede. Marco is the superior shield. But Kid is the more balanced combatant which is far more useful against someone like Big mom. Unlike with Kid and Law who were both threats to her, she doesn't have much to fear from Marco i.e. she can afford to put most of her attention on stopping Zoro's offense.


I'm not really interested in going deep on this discussion because all I was responding to in the first place was the claim that Kid is Marco's equal as a shield which I've disproved.

In my view, and I think most others, Kid and Marco are around the same level. What Kid might have on Marco in offense, Marco will have on him in defense. Saying that Kid is a more balanced combatant than Marco in any measurable way is unproven and so is the claim that Marco can't wear down Big Mom in the slightest.


Kroczilla said:


> Also internal destruction haki is unique to Luffy. I would advise you go re-read the Udon training portion of Wano. Zoro doesn't have it.


I just posted a panel of Luffy saying aCoC is infusing your attacks in the same way you do with internal destruction aCoA.


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## Kroczilla (Feb 14, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> I'm not sure I'm buying your premise


The premise that Marco would shield Zoro from big mom's attacks? Your entire argument is based on that premise btw.


Shunsuiju said:


> In my view, and I think most others, Kid and Marco are around the same level. What Kid might have on Marco in offense, Marco will have on him in defens


Except Kid is also fairly competent at defense. Much more so than Marco is at offense. And he still has awakening hax capable of disarming or restraining opponents. He's definitely above Marco at this point.


Shunsuiju said:


> Saying that Kid is a more balanced combatant than Marco in any measurable way is unproven and so is the claim that Marco can't wear down Big Mom in the slightest


He is the more balanced combatant though. He can both defend against a Yonko's attacks and cause significant harm to said Yonko. Marco is the only one here who is unproven in that regard.


Shunsuiju said:


> I just posted a panel of Luffy saying aCoC is infusing your attacks in the same way you do with internal destruction aCoA


Again, go re-read Luffy's Udon training coz you're clearly confusing different concepts. Regular AdCoc is basically allowing CoA to flow and form a field/layer of haki. Luffy's variant is the unique kind that does internal destruction. ATM only Luffy and Raleigh are known to have that particular variant .

Reactions: Winner 1 | Lewd 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Feb 15, 2022)

This team is weaker than Law & Kid plus they don’t have the Ope Ope’s utility. BM takes it.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 15, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> The premise that Marco would shield Zoro from big mom's attacks? Your entire argument is based on that premise btw.


No, that Big Mom would cut through Marco's body and hit Zoro.


Kroczilla said:


> Except Kid is also fairly competent at defense. Much more so than Marco is at offense. And he still has awakening hax capable of disarming or restraining opponents. He's definitely above Marco at this point.
> 
> He is the more balanced combatant though. He can both defend against a Yonko's attacks and cause significant harm to said Yonko. Marco is the only one here who is unproven in that regard.


I agree that Kid is better at offense, based on what we've seen and the fact that Marco is more defensively oriented, but you're making up the fact that Marco is completely useless in that regard. Kid was not causing significant harm to Big Mom, and we have plenty of examples to suggest Marco is at least comparable to Kid in attacking power. He overpowered King, who was getting the better of Zoro before gaining aCoC. He overpowered Kizaru and clashed with Big Mom briefly before she got the better of him when he let his guard down.


Kroczilla said:


> Again, go re-read Luffy's Udon training coz you're clearly confusing different concepts. Regular AdCoc is basically allowing CoA to flow and form a field/layer of haki. Luffy's variant is the unique kind that does internal destruction. ATM only Luffy and Raleigh are known to have that particular variant .


I think most people's interpretation is that aCoC is now aCoA but better.


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## Gokou08 (Feb 15, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Reminder that Law and Kidd needed plot bombs to "win".
> 
> Carry on.


Hard agree, BM was too much for them.


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## Oda Report (Feb 15, 2022)

Big L was afraid of Zoros Ap before he fully unlocked AdvCoC. Marco will damage soak, heal Zoro while the moss head has the tool box to deal with her homies and the attack power to damage Big L. 

They actually defeat Bigger L without removing her from the battle field.

Reactions: Like 3 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Gin (Feb 15, 2022)

duo, extreme

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Captain Altintop (Feb 15, 2022)

Could go either way.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Oda Report (Feb 15, 2022)

Bad match up for Big L imo.

Marco or Law are like top tier support fighters and Zoro ap is super effective against the entry level Yonkou.

Reactions: Like 2 | Useful 1 | Tier Specialist 4


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## T.D.A (Feb 15, 2022)

MO said:


> Law's attacks are much more powerful than anything Zoro has displayed



Advanced CoC must have been a dream...
also Kaido > BM, so Zoro can bypass her durability.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 3


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## T.D.A (Feb 15, 2022)

Oda hyping up Advanced CoC as an attack power only the very strongest can use.

Zoro unlocks said power

OL: Kidd and Law have far greater AP

Reactions: Funny 3 | Tier Specialist 3


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## gunchar (Feb 15, 2022)

The Zoro fanboys can talk as much bullshit as they want(they anyways always do), neither Zoro nor Marco bring the neccessary feats to win this fight, and anyone who honestly still believes that Kaido let alone King have better durability than BM most certainly also still believes in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

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## T.D.A (Feb 15, 2022)

gunchar said:


> The Zoro fanboys can talk as much bullshit as they want(they anyways always do), neither Zoro nor Marco have the neccessary feats to win this fight, and anyone who honestly still believes that Kaido let alone King have better durability than BM most certainly also still believes in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.



Cry

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Gabzy (Feb 15, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Oda hyping up Advanced CoC as an attack power only the very strongest can use.
> 
> Zoro unlocks said power
> 
> OL: Kidd and Law have far greater AP


Do you think Yamato has better AP than Law?


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## T.D.A (Feb 15, 2022)

Gabzy said:


> Do you think Yamato has better AP than Law?



Definitely better than Kidd's


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## Gabzy (Feb 15, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Definitely better than Kidd's


And why with Law is different? I tought the reason Zoro had better AP than Law was because Oda gave him advanced conqueors, an attack power only the strongest can use, and the same power Yamato has. Yet, you think she is weaker than Law. Nice double standards.



T.D.A said:


> Cry


I don't see Akainu, i suppose his AP isn't that much stronger than Yamato's either, since Oda hyped up advanced conqueors as an attack power only the strongest can use, and Sakazuki isn't confirmed to have said power.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Oda Report (Feb 15, 2022)

gunchar said:


> The Zoro fanboys can talk as much bullshit as they want(they anyways always do), neither Zoro nor Marco bring the neccessary feats to win this fight, and anyone who honestly still believes that Kaido let alone King have better durability than BM most certainly also still believes in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.



Dragon blaze made Big L soil herself yet you act like Zoro don't got the AP. Go clean ya mothers draws.

BTW

King flame mode tanks > koi-dou >= Bigger L  



Gabzy said:


> I don't see Akainu, i suppose his AP isn't that much stronger than Yamato's either, since Oda hyped up advanced conqueors as an attack power only the strongest can use, and Sakazuki isn't confirmed to have said power.



Oda already stated Red Dog has the best offensive DF in the game. The man would have found one piece in the same time it took the SH to train up for part 2.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 4


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## Gabzy (Feb 15, 2022)

Oda Report said:


> Oda already stated Red Dog has the best offensive DF in the game. The man would have found one piece in the same time it took the SH to train up for part 2.


What about Fujitora? Kizaru? Kuzan? Does Yamato has better AP than all 3 because she has advanced conqueors?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Conxc (Feb 15, 2022)

Duo loses, but it isn't because Zoro can't put out damage. It's because Marco's own AP isn't proven. Any time he has tried to hurt a top tier, he ended up doing even less than superficial damage. Zoro on the other hand, was bypassing Kaido's scales even pre-AdCoC. 

Also, it's quite laughable to think that Law does far more AP than Zoro when his internal attacks are constantly being portrayed in a similar light to Kid's attacks in just about every aspect except visually.

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## MO (Feb 15, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Advanced CoC must have been a dream...


just because he has adv coc doesn't means attacks are stronger. 


T.D.A said:


> also Kaido > BM, so Zoro can bypass her durability.


not the in the durability department he's not.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Conxc (Feb 15, 2022)

BM is not more durable than Kaido. Lmfao

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Oda Report (Feb 15, 2022)

Gabzy said:


> What about Fujitora? Kizaru? Kuzan? Does Yamato has better AP than all 3 because she has advanced conqueors?



Yamato the one who fought kaidou for a bit 1v1 and made em bleed with her AdvCoC? Kuzans Ap seems close to Red Dogs ap looking at PH. Don't know about the others they gotta get into a serious scuffle. 

Shanks AdvCoC sure made red dog think twice about killing fodder. AdvCoC is strong however it's not the end all be all, I've never been on that train.


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## T.D.A (Feb 16, 2022)

MO said:


> just because he has adv coc doesn't means attacks are stronger.
> 
> not the in the durability department he's not.



Advanced CoC used by the very strongest, one of Luffy's powerups in order to defeat Kaido, something you need in order to leave a wound on Kaido. Advanced CoC the difference in bypassing the durability of a Lunarian which is special. But sure the attack potency is not as great as a raging metal bull....

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Duhul10 (Feb 16, 2022)

charles101 said:


> With all these BM threads, *let's not forget huge portion of that fight was Law bypassing her defence with his hax ability*. Does this mean Law is overall crazy powerful? No, but if he lands a hit, it will hurt. A lot. So just because dude strong enough to make BM busy for Law to land a hit (+bit of luck/plot) could beat them doesn't mean that people about as strong as them in 1 vs 1 could replicate that.
> 
> to;dr
> Law is the best support you can pray for in a team fight. Other people at his general level won't contribute to team as much as he can with their strength alone


this

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrPopo (Feb 16, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Oda hyping up Advanced CoC as an attack power only the very strongest can use.
> 
> Zoro unlocks said power
> 
> OL: Kidd and Law have far greater AP


 Like when Yamato showed avd CoC everyone said Zoro still had better ap than her

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Oda Report (Feb 16, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Reminder that Law and Kidd needed plot bombs to "win".
> 
> Carry on.



It wasn't the plot bombs it was the hole in the ground.  



MrPopo said:


> Like when Yamato showed avd CoC everyone said Zoro still had better ap than her



The powers of Haki vary

Zoros ap on the rooftop > Yamatos.

Putting fear of damage in yonkou who are known for durability Is massive for a feat.

We all know yamatos fate will be the same as Robin, Franky and jinbei.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## T.D.A (Feb 16, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Like when Yamato showed avd CoC everyone said Zoro still had better ap than her



Zoro has Advanced Conqueror's Haki too...

Reactions: Like 3


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 16, 2022)

BM, Marco has no legit AP of worth and Zoro's isn't enough to put her down, especially with how exhausting adCoC seems to be for him

Kidd and Law together have more AP than Zoro and Marco, and even they needed plot assistance to win

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## T.D.A (Feb 16, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> BM, Marco has no legit AP of worth and Zoro's isn't enough to put her down, especially with how exhausting adCoC seems to be for him
> 
> Kidd and Law together have more AP than Zoro and Marco, and even they needed plot assistance to win



Marco's DF is problematic for Big Mom though. He can also help regenerate Zoro's stamina/health during the fight.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## MrPopo (Feb 16, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Zoro has Advanced Conqueror's Haki too...


I'm referring to when Yamato was revealed to have avd CoC and at the time Zoro was not confrimed to have avd CoC


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## T.D.A (Feb 16, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> I'm referring to when Yamato was revealed to have avd CoC and at the time Zoro was not confrimed to have avd CoC



Bruh it was obvious Zoro infused his attack with CoC before Yamato fought with Kaido. Only the usual downplayers thought Kaido would randomly assume Zoro had it with no basis

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## MrPopo (Feb 16, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Bruh it was obvious Zoro infused his attack with CoC before Yamato fought with Kaido. Only the usual downplayers thought Kaido would randomly assume Zoro had it with no basis


Have you not seen recent discussions, the new angle is that Zoro used normal conquers haki

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## Kroczilla (Feb 16, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Have you not seen recent discussions, the new angle is that Zoro used normal conquers haki


Basically this. It getting pretty difficult to get a definite position on anything Zoro-related nowadays. The narrative changes seemingly with every release.

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## Velocity (Feb 16, 2022)

You take Law and his unreasonably convenient hax out of the equation and beating Linlin suddenly becomes much, much more difficult. You take away convenient win conditions like a ring out and I think even Law's hax is no longer enough either.

Zoro and Marco don't really have much hope of winning here.

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## T.D.A (Feb 16, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Have you not seen recent discussions, the new angle is that Zoro used normal conquers haki





Kroczilla said:


> Basically this. It getting pretty difficult to get a definite position on anything Zoro-related nowadays. The narrative changes seemingly with every release.



Haven't come across it. I don't get it, what's 'normal' CoC haki?

Reactions: Like 2


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## gunchar (Feb 16, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Cry



If only Big Mom would be part of those very strongest, actually an established Top Tier and Emporer in complete contrary to Zoro and Marco, and would've just recently had a fight were Law and Kid have proven that AdCoC is not the end to be all with Law even blatantly showing better feats with a sword than Zoro...

If Zoro wouldn't have AdCoC, at least half the people who wank it here now would straight up downplay it instead. The fact that people even somehow fail to understand the simple concept that there are levels to AdCoC users(and Zoro obviously ain't that high up yet, like the fact that he just fought King aka the underling of an Emporer blatantly shows) like to anything else, is actually quite corncerning.



Oda Report said:


> Dragon blaze made Big L soil herself yet you act like Zoro don't got the AP. Go clean ya mothers draws.
> 
> BTW
> 
> King flame mode tanks > koi-dou >= Bigger L



You clown just yet again prove that going with the exact opposite of what you say is usually the right thing to do, BM literally was concerned about Kaido getting injured by that and she was right, that and Kaido's in general far worse durability feats by now straight up just show that he is blatantly less durable than her.

But thanks for finally proving that you're indeed just one of the especially delusional Zoro fanboys, i wasn't sure if you're maybe just an idiot in general, but nobody except the really delusional Zoro fanboys would still spread the narrative that King aka merely the  first commander of one of the Emporers would somehow stand at the top in terms of durability XD.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## MrPopo (Feb 16, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Haven't come across it. I don't get it, what's 'normal' CoC haki?


The one that knocks out fodder

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kroczilla (Feb 16, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Haven't come across it. I don't get it, what's 'normal' CoC haki?


Regular CoC basically. Don't quite remember whom, but fairly certain that PoV was being pushed in one of the more popular Telegram threads for the last chapter.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## gunchar (Feb 16, 2022)

Gabzy said:


> And why with Law is different? I tought the reason Zoro had better AP than Law was because Oda gave him advanced conqueors, an attack power only the strongest can use, and the same power Yamato has. Yet, you think she is weaker than Law. Nice double standards.
> 
> 
> I don't see Akainu, i suppose his AP isn't that much stronger than Yamato's either, since Oda hyped up advanced conqueors as an attack power only the strongest can use, and Sakazuki isn't confirmed to have said power.


Pssht don't point out the blatant double standards here, Zoro fanboys are really sensible creatures, if King ain't actually somehow faaar closer to his captain than any other commander of an Emporer we've really seen so far that would just break their heart cause it would actually mean that Luffy is well beyond Zoro right now(which any just halfway reasonable person anyways knows, even without any need to be a Luffy fanboy).


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## T.D.A (Feb 16, 2022)

gunchar said:


> If only Big Mom would be part of those very strongest, actually an established Top Tier and Emporer in complete contrary to Zoro and Marco, and would've just recently had a fight were Law and Kid proved that AdCoC is not the end to all with Law even blatantly showing better feats with a sword than Zoro...
> 
> If Zoro wouldn't have AdCoC, at least half the people who wank it here now would straight up downplay it instead.
> 
> ...



Law's feats are more to do with his DF than swordsmanship btw...

And Big Mom didn't even show Advanced CoC attacks against Law and Kid so what did it prove? She was beating them up without it lol.

Law can have offensive ability on par with Advanced CoC thanks to his special DF, it's not on a level greater than it though.

Kaido less durable than Big Mom? He's not the one who got KO'd from Queen, he's not the one who's been shown to be knocked out for an extended period of time unlike Big Mom.....Kaido also hasn't had his bones broken yet either. There doesn't seem to be a strong argument for assuming BM > Kaido in durability.


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## gunchar (Feb 16, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Law's feats are more to do with his DF than swordsmanship btw...



I know, that's kinda even part of my point.



T.D.A said:


> And Big Mom didn't even show Advanced CoC attacks against Law and Kid so what did it prove? She was beating them up without it lol.



It proves that Law and Kid have drastically injured one of the very strongest in One Piece, and not just one who just recently showed that potential, while Zoro just did something far less effective against one of those strongest(*in combat:* breaking someones bones >>>>> scarring someone, regardless of the story relevance) who also has significantly worse durability feats so far.



T.D.A said:


> Law can have offensive ability on par with Advanced CoC thanks to his special DF, it's not on a level greater than it though.



And Law can even have better offensive abilities than an AdCoC rookie like Zoro thanks to his special DF, which is blatantly the case right now.



T.D.A said:


> Kaido less durable than Big Mom?



Yes, and that's not even debatable right now.



T.D.A said:


> He's not the one who got KO'd from Queen, he's not the one who's been shown to be knocked out for an extended period of time unlike Big Mom.....



Kaido is also not the one who got hit by the plot, and BM's recent durability feats showed us anyways that Queen would earlier break his own body before he really injures BM in any actual fight.



T.D.A said:


> Kaido also hasn't had his bones broken yet either.



Cause Kaido also never got hit with anything remotely comparable on panel so far.



T.D.A said:


> There doesn't seem to be a strong argument for assuming BM > Kaido in durability.


Following your logic here, Luke Cage is more durable than Supes or Wonder Woman cause they get injured more often than him XD...

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Turrin (Feb 16, 2022)

BM was worried about Zoro’s AP with Enma prior to CoC and Enma’s awakening. Given this it’s pretty obvious BM would take serious damage from Zoro’s CoC Coating attacks; and Marco can create a big enough distraction for Zoro to land these while also regenerating Zoro and likely extending therefore extending the time-limit he can use CoC for. Marco and Zoro should win the High/Extreme Diff.

Reactions: Like 4 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Turrin (Feb 16, 2022)

gunchar said:


> I know, that's kinda even part of my point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kaidou has worse durability feats then BM. You really trying to tell me Kidd’s Bull is like massively stronger then  Luffy’s CoC Coated sky splitter Hits. Because Kaidou took multiple of those without any broken bones while Kid’s Bull broke BM’s arm.
—-
It’s absolutely obvious as hell Kaidou is more durable then BM

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Oda Report (Feb 16, 2022)

gunchar said:


> You clown just yet again prove that going with the exact opposite of what you say is usually the right thing to do, BM literally was concerned about Kaido getting injured by that and she was right, *that and Kaido's in general far worse durability feats by now straight up just show that he is blatantly less durable than her.*



Lmao this guy is the ultimate Big Lame fanboy. Your entire argument rest on spamming tier specialist reactions and never having an argument outside of "no big mom is best no u fanboy" Lmao.



gunchar said:


> But thanks for finally proving that you're indeed just one of the especially delusional Zoro fanboys, i wasn't sure if you're maybe just an idiot in general, but nobody except the really *delusional Zoro fanboys would still spread the narrative that King aka merely the  first commander of one of the Emporers would somehow stand at the top in terms of durability XD.*



Yet that's what the story gave us.

Again powers vary in One Piece miss me with that YC1 talk as if all right hands are equal in strength when King is the strongest 1st mate we encountered in the story till now save for Zoro who beat em.

As for King being a durability monster in flame mode. Zoro with out fully unlocking his advcoc was able to damage kaidou the easiest on the rooftop, yet when Zoro faced King he couldn't damage his flame mode, Zoro needed an even grater power of AdvCoC.

try again Old boy


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## gunchar (Feb 16, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Kaidou has worse durability feats then BM.



Blatantly worse.



Turrin said:


> You really trying to tell me Kidd’s Bull is like massively stronger then  Luffy’s CoC Coated sky splitter Hits.



I'm really telling you that Law's + Kid's combined Awakenings shit hard on everything Kaido got hit with on panel so far, how much credit you want to give Law and Kid each is your own problem. BM also split the sky with Kaido, and then continued to fight the same Kaido for days without actually getting injured at all, so it's blatantly not an actual sign for enough attack power to worry either of them.



Turrin said:


> Because Kaidou took multiple of those without any broken bones while Kid’s Bull broke BM’s arm.



Cool, that scales Kid directly to Law and makes him way more powerful then he looked like then(which actually might be Oda's intention, but you can also give Law most of the credit if you want).



Turrin said:


> —-
> It’s absolutely obvious as hell Kaidou is more durable then BM


BM is so blatantly more durable than Kaido so far that this extremely dumb statement of yours just shows yet again how insanely delusional people on this forum can be, usually in favour of some agenda about characters they like or hate.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Conxc (Feb 16, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Haven't come across it. I don't get it, what's 'normal' CoC haki?


The irony is that it was one of theirs that started this by claiming that Zoro’s AdCoC barrier vs King wasn’t AdCoC but normal CoC in order to claim that Zoro isn t capable of AdCoC barriers

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MO (Feb 16, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Advanced CoC used by the very strongest, one of Luffy's powerups in order to defeat Kaido, something you need in order to leave a wound on Kaido. Advanced CoC the difference in bypassing the durability of a Lunarian which is special. But sure the attack potency is not as great as a raging metal bull....


idk why you're mentioning kidd. I said Law attacks are shown to be much more powerful than zoro and they are. Never said anything about kidd.


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## gunchar (Feb 16, 2022)

Oda Report said:


> Lmao this guy is the ultimate Big Lame fanboy.




I'm hardly a fan at all thanks to Oda's shitty writing.



Oda Report said:


> Your entire argument rest on spamming tier specialist reactions and never having an argument outside of "no big mom is best no u fanboy" Lmao.



Your reading comprehension is really off the charts kiddo XD...



Oda Report said:


> Yet that's what the story gave us.



Yes, far better durability feats for BM.



Oda Report said:


> Again powers vary in One Piece miss me with that YC1 talk as if all right hands are equal in strength when *King is the strongest 1st mate we encountered in the story till now* save for Zoro who beat em.




Zoro fanboys are just beyond help XD.



Oda Report said:


> As for King being a durability monster in flame mode.



Yeah, a cute little sub-Emporer durability monster.



Oda Report said:


> Zoro with out fully unlocking his advcoc was able to damage kaidou the easiest on the rooftop



He merely scarred him, and Law + Kid were literally holding back their Awakenings there. Maybe you should read One Piece instead of Two or Three Piece for a change.



Oda Report said:


> , yet when Zoro faced King he couldn't damage his flame mode, Zoro needed an even grater power of AdvCoC.
> 
> try again Old boy



Okay, so your case is actually that Kaido is even less durable than his own freaking underling XD? Man, being less durable than BM is fine cause they're at least peers but that is really just pathetic.


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## Turrin (Feb 16, 2022)

gunchar said:


> Blatantly worse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So again your telling me Kidd’s Bull would break Kaidou’s bones and is massively stronger then G4 CoC Coating Snake-man Luffy and Yamato CoC coating combined attack + dozens of other CoC Coating attacks from Luffy in G2/3  which did not break his bones.

All I need is a yes or no answer


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## Gabzy (Feb 16, 2022)

Law broke Big Mom bones, not Kid

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Incognitos (Feb 16, 2022)

Gabzy said:


> Law broke Big Mom bones, not Kid


Bait. 

OT. Zoro and Marco lose. Marco is an inferior support and offense to law and Zoro has inferior durability and endurance feats as well as versatility to kid. His AP is only slightly better and kid has shown the ability to spam his top tier attacks with more frequency and without passing out more often than kid. 

Zoro might be able to use 2 attacks that do 5 damage but kid can use 5 attacks that do 3.5 damage.


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## arv993 (Feb 16, 2022)

Startegy is important here. If we assume that Marco can essentially nullify big mom’s homies like he did before then he limits big mom severely. He can also heal and replenish zoro, so zoro can keep attacking her. 

But if big mom decided to use acoc then it will partially negate zoro and lead to big mom’s win. So it really depends on if this is an acoc using big mom or not.


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## gunchar (Feb 16, 2022)

Turrin said:


> So again your telling me Kidd’s Bull would break Kaidou’s bones and is massively stronger then G4 CoC Coating Snake-man Luffy and Yamato CoC coating combined attack + dozens of other CoC Coating attacks from Luffy in G2/3  which did not break his bones.



If you want to give Kid full credit for breaking these bones sure, cause in that case Kid obviously scales directly to Law.



Turrin said:


> All I need is a yes or no answer



I don't care about what you need, the answer is yes if Kid scales directly to Law and no if you give Law a significant part of the credit for Kid's damage.


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## Turrin (Feb 16, 2022)

gunchar said:


> If you want to give Kid full credit for breaking these bones sure, cause in that case Kid obviously scales directly to Law.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care about what you need, the answer is yes if Kid scales directly to Law and no if you give Law a significant part of the credit for Kid's damage.


Okay so Kidd’s Bull is Massively above Luffy according to you. I’m sure that’s correct bud and not the biggest Yonko stan nonsense I’ve ever seen


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## gunchar (Feb 16, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Okay so Kidd’s Bull is Massively above Luffy according to you.



Okay so you can't actually read?



Turrin said:


> I’m sure that’s correct bud







Turrin said:


> and not the biggest Yonko stan nonsense I’ve ever seen




Is Kaido somehow no Yonko anymore, how the hell did i miss that?


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## gunchar (Feb 16, 2022)

Zoro fanboys...


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## Oda Report (Feb 16, 2022)

gunchar said:


> Im hardly a fan at all thanks to Oda's shitty writing.



Save it for someone who hasn't beaten you up and down these boards. 



gunchar said:


> Yes, far better durability feats for Bm



Only in Hope Piece. That bull made out of junk sure did disprove your case.



gunchar said:


> Yeah, a cute little sub-Emporer durability monster.



Oda disagrees with you, hence Zoro upgrade to AdvCoc. 



gunchar said:


> He merely scarred him, and Law + Kid were literally holding back their Awakenings there. Maybe you should read One Piece instead of Two or Three Piece for a change.



Wow still lying, Zoro ap was doing more to kaido then law or Kid.  Kid and laws awakenings where last resort Trump cards and still isn't on par to Zoro who fully unlocked advcoc. 



gunchar said:


> Okay, so your case is actually that Kaido is even less durable than his own freaking underling XD? Man, being less durable than BM is fine cause they're at least peers but that is really just pathetic.


 
You sure don't understand how things work in one piece.

Does Luffy have more cutting power then his underling Zoro? 

Try again.


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## gunchar (Feb 16, 2022)

Oda Report said:


> Save it for someone who hasn't beaten you up and down these boards.




The only thing you clown ever did was making me seriously pity you.



Oda Report said:


> Only in Hope Piece. That bull made out of junk sure did disprove your case.



It's called *One* Piece, here is a link for you:





Oda Report said:


> Oda disagrees



The voices in your head might claim they're Oda, but i can promise you they're not.



Oda Report said:


> and still isn't on par to Zoro



True, at least Law's shits hard on Zoro.



Oda Report said:


> You sure don't understand how things work in one piece.



Well i don't have weird voices in my head.



Oda Report said:


> Does Luffy have more cutting power then his underling Zoro?



Do you actually secretely hate Zoro, or why would you want for Luffy to use a sword and become WSS?



Oda Report said:


> Try again.


Well making fun of you gets kinda boring, you just make it too easy.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Empathy (Feb 16, 2022)

There’s no way that Kid’s bull broke Big Mom’s arm, but then she described his trump card as tickling her. Law probably broke her arm and ribs, or at least softened her up enough from the inside for Kid to break her arm in the first place.


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## gunchar (Feb 16, 2022)

Empathy said:


> There’s no way that Kid’s bull broke Big Mom’s arm, but then she described his trump card as tickling her. Law probably broke her arm and ribs, or at least softened her up enough from the inside for Kid to break her arm in the first place.


That's sadly for Kid quite likely, and otherwise Oda just failed hard to portray Kid's attacks properly.


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## Empathy (Feb 16, 2022)

gunchar said:


> That's sadly for Kid quite likely, and otherwise Oda just failed hard to portray Kid's attacks properly.



Big Mom specifically credits only Law in the exact panel that her broken arm is first shown and highlighted in. No good reason for her to not credit Kid for breaking her bones too, if he really did accomplish the exact same thing. The only reasonable explanation would be because he didn’t.


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## Turrin (Feb 16, 2022)

gunchar said:


> Okay so you can't actually read?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry BM Stan. My bad


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Feb 16, 2022)

Empathy said:


> There’s no way that Kid’s bull broke Big Mom’s arm, but then she described his trump card as tickling her. Law probably broke her arm and ribs, or at least softened her up enough from the inside for Kid to break her arm in the first place.


She didn’t describe it as a tickle and regardless she’s shit talking it clearly hurts her when he uses the 2nd keep up friend 

It’s agenda piece everyday here. The goalpost moving by bm fans around the outcome of the fight and now the acoc flip flop by the worst of z boys is something.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## gunchar (Feb 16, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Big Mom specifically credits only Law in the exact panel that her broken arm is first shown and highlighted in. No good reason for her to not credit Kid for breaking her bones too, if he really did accomplish the exact same thing. The only reasonable explanation would be because he didn’t.


Well i'm kinda willing to give Kid some benefit of the doubt, but he got terribly portrayed in that regard by Oda either way.


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## Turrin (Feb 16, 2022)

gunchar said:


> Here is some help for you:


Look man I know that’s level of material your teachers are currently struggling to teach you but some of us don’t have issues, like you do, and can clearly understand a dozen hits from Luffy’s CoC Coating is > Kid’s Bull.


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## gunchar (Feb 16, 2022)

Turrin said:


> some of us don’t have issues



Some of us don't, but you're sadly not that lucky, never give up though.



Turrin said:


> and can clearly understand a dozen hits from Luffy’s CoC Coating is > Kid’s Bull.


Cool, then that just means Law was actually responsible for the damage, sad for Kid but it is what it is.


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## Turrin (Feb 16, 2022)

gunchar said:


> Some of us don't, but you're sadly not that lucky, never give up though.
> 
> 
> Cool, then that just means Law was actually responsible for the damage, sad for Kid but it is what it is.


I love how you think Law’s Shock Willie could also be more damaging then over a dozen hits from CoC Coating G2/3/4 Luffy.

What other feats does Shock Willie even have other then against BM, which wouldn’t make this a circle jerk argument where your presupposing BM durability is above Kaidou and therefore Shock Willie must be stronger then 12 dozen CoC Coated Sky Splitter hits?


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Feb 16, 2022)

Turrin said:


> What other feats does Shock Willie even have other then against BM, which wouldn’t make this a circle jerk argument where your presupposing BM durability is above Kaidou and therefore Shock Willie must be stronger then 12 dozen CoC Coated Sky Splitter hits?


Aren’t you doing the same thing?


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## Turrin (Feb 16, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Aren’t you doing the same thing?


How? We have clear showings of CoC Coating’s AP on multiple characters and Luffy’s AP outside CoC Coating.


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## Oda Report (Feb 16, 2022)

gunchar said:


> The only thing you clown ever did was making me seriously pity you.







gunchar said:


> It's called *One* Piece, here is a link for you:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You dont even have an argument.

Why link me to a manga you don't even read? Lol

Reactions: Funny 2


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Feb 16, 2022)

Turrin said:


> How? We have clear showings of CoC Coating’s AP on multiple characters and Luffy’s AP outside CoC Coating.


There’s no point of comparison. You’re assuming Luffy acoc coating is massively stronger. Also your positions on big mom are just completely delegitimized since you started to claim she got treated worse than blueno. As if the blueno theory was bad enough. I just like to irritate you.


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## Turrin (Feb 17, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> There’s no point of comparison. You’re assuming Luffy acoc coating is massively stronger. Also your positions on big mom are just completely delegitimized since you started to claim she got treated worse than blueno. As if the blueno theory was bad enough. I just like to irritate you.


I said over a dozen punches from CoC Coating Luffy is stronger then Kidd’s Bull or Law’s Shock Willie; not a single one. 
—-
And If you think Losing to Luffy showing a new Gear ability on-top of CoC coating is worse then losing to Law and Kidd; that’s on you bruv, but for me that would have been a way better display for BM.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Feb 17, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I said over a dozen punches from CoC Coating Luffy is stronger then Kidd’s Bull or Law’s Shock Willie; not a single one.
> —-
> And If you think Losing to Luffy showing a new Gear ability on-top of CoC coating is worse then losing to Law and Kidd; that’s on you bruv, but for me that would have been a way better display for BM.


Blueno was infinitely weaker than Lucci and was lowest end of mid diffed by Luffy. BM was treated with a million times more respect. You’re only saying otherwise because you just can’t admit you were wrong.


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## Turrin (Feb 17, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Blueno was infinitely weaker than Lucci and was lowest end of mid diffed by Luffy. BM was treated with a million times more respect. You’re only saying otherwise because you just can’t admit you were wrong.


Let me explain this to you bud:

Luffy has been matching Hybrid Kaidou equally with just G2/3 (not even G4); Unless G4 Luffy just claps Kaidou around Blueno style, it’s pretty obvious that Kaidou will end up showing power way greater then what he showd thus far just to combat G4 Luffy, let alone a hypothetical new Gear Form Luffy who would naturally scale even beyond G4 Boundman.

Hybrid Kaidou even before the Drunk Amp and his Haki growing in strength was already shown equal to BM (in-fact you can possibly make the argument even that he was equal to BM in Base since he stalemated her for that whole day seemingly in Base).

So it’s highly debatable BM could even beat G2/3 Luffy, almost certainly would loose to G4, let alone another hypothetical Gear amp.

As opposed to if BM had pulled Blueno, that would at least mean she couldn’t be beaten by G2/3/4 Luffy and required a new Gear Form to beat, which would make her much more powerful then she is currently.

—
Your just assuming Law and Kidd beating her is better based on not properly thinking out the scaling on Luffy’s new Gear Form as I outlined about and/or assuming Law and Kidd will be anywhere near Peak Power Kaidou and Luffy at the end of the arc. When Luffy already has the same gap on Law that he had in DR (which is massive ) since both got an awakening (Luffy CoC and Law DF) this arc; and then if he got a new Gear Form it would be even more massive, like the gap between DR Law and end of WCI Luffy.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Feb 17, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Let me explain this to you bud:
> 
> Luffy has been matching Hybrid Kaidou equally with just G2/3 (not even G4); Unless G4 Luffy just claps Kaidou around Blueno style, it’s pretty obvious that Kaidou will end up showing power way greater then what he showd thus far just to combat G4 Luffy, let alone a hypothetical new Gear Form Luffy who would naturally scale even beyond G4 Boundman.
> 
> ...


Typed all that out and you’re still wrong. If you think the gap between big mom and kaido is bigger than the one between blueno and Lucci my goodness….


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## Turrin (Feb 17, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Typed all that out and you’re still wrong. If you think the gap between big mom and kaido is bigger than the one between blueno and Lucci my goodness….


If Luffy pulls a new Gear Form and Kaidou fights against it near equally like Lucci fought against G2/3 near equally then yeah it’s a similar or greater gap based on shown feats.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Feb 17, 2022)

Turrin said:


> If Luffy pulls a new Gear Form and Kaidou fights against it near equally like Lucci fought against G2/3 near equally then yeah it’s a similar or greater gap based on shown feats.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Pirateer (Feb 17, 2022)

Meme wins very high diff, only lost to Law and Midd because Law's DF hax and plot bs


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