# Zoro and Sanji vs. Vergo, Pica, Diamante, and Trebol



## NUMBA1TROLL (Aug 25, 2015)

Luffy's pair aces vs. Doflamingo's four kings.

Mindset: In character.


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## Ekkologix (Aug 25, 2015)

Is Sanji needed here 

Maybe you accidently put Sanji on Zoro's side. Put Sanji on the other side and there may be a match here.


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## savior2005 (Aug 25, 2015)

An all out zoro destroys pica/diamente/trebol while vergo kicks sanji's ass. Then zoro destroys vergo. Infact, you may as well make is just zoro vs the team. sanji is nothing more than a meat shield.


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## tanman (Aug 25, 2015)

Sanji beats Pica and Diamante.
Zoro beats Vergo and Trebol.

Easy peasy.


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## Grimm6Jack (Aug 25, 2015)

The Executives, aside from Vergo, really are underrated 

But I can understand...


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## Extravlad (Aug 25, 2015)

> Sanji beats Pica and Diamante.


I see you still have some of the best humour in OL.
Executives are all on Sanji's lvl, Vergo is without a doubt stronger, Pica would beats him 1 on 1.
He isn't taking out 2 executives when he can't even take out Vergo.


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## tanman (Aug 25, 2015)

One legged Kyros one-shotted Diamante, while injured solely due to the fact the he was directing his daughter an being super prideful. Calling it mid diff would be generous. And G2/G3 Luffy showed that he's WAY faster and tougher than Kyros.

So there's no such thing as underestimating Diamante. Sanji would one-shot him. Zoro would blink and he would dead.

Trebol's ultimate suicide attack was nigh useless, and Law was treating him like an actual fodder. He was the Saibaman of this arc.

Pica is big and annoying, but he couldn't tag people like Zoro and Sanji in a million years. He has no stamina, and all you need is good CoO or huge AoE to find his real body. Zoro does what he did in the manga, just way faster without PIS. Sanji lights Pica on fire to keep him busy and then finds his real body and severs it off with CoO.


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## Dunno (Aug 25, 2015)

Zoro soloes. Sanji might be able to depending on how much stuff he's got hidden away.


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## savior2005 (Aug 25, 2015)

diamente and trebol shouldn't be much of a problem. Zoro is definately the strongest here, but its clear that sanji is weaker than vergo. I think if sanji can hold off pica and maybe diamente/trebol while zoro kills that other 2, they can win.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Aug 25, 2015)

Go D. Usopp said:


> Is Sanji needed here
> 
> Maybe you accidently put Sanji on Zoro's side. Put Sanji on the other side and there may be a match here.



yes


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## NO (Aug 26, 2015)

Seems pretty obviously what'll happen. Zoro specializes in CoA [1] and easily destroyed Pica's fullbody CoA. [2] Both Pica and Vergo pulled out fullbody hardening as a last resort [2][3] which puts their haki on equal portrayal. 

There was no location given so I'll just assume Pica isn't wasting Zoro's time by hiding in a rock golem. All Zoro needs to do is get one clean hit on Pica to defeat him [2]. Since Pica and Vergo have equal CoA portrayal, we just repeat the same scenario for Vergo.

Diamante and Trebol have not shown advanced CoA like their other two colleagues so those two fights will be easy for Zoro and Sanji.

Overall, upper end of mid difficulty here. This is the kind of garbage that's in DD's crew, unfortunately.


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## Furinji Saiga (Aug 26, 2015)

Vergo and Pica are the only somewhat difficulty opponents here.

Diamante and Trebol were garbage.  

Zoro should be able to handle Vergo just fine, he can one shot Diamante with any of his basic Santoryu moves, and mid diff Vergo. 

Sanji uses CoO to find Pica in the stone golem, and goes to work on him to finish him off. 
Zoro after finishing Vergo off with Lion Song, then proceeds to haki stab Trebol.


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## Amol (Aug 26, 2015)

Zoro solos Vergo high diff .
Sanji solos Pica, Diamante and Trebol.
Mid diff win for Straw Hats .


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 26, 2015)

Sanji and Zoro fight and take out Vergo, diamante and trebol, while pica supports his team by hiding around.

After they're dead, Sanji and zoro find and kill pica.


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## Coruscation (Aug 26, 2015)

Amol said:


> Zoro solos Vergo high diff .
> Sanji solos Pica, Diamante and Trebol.
> Mid diff win for Straw Hats .





The underestimation of the Seats is going too far. They're not some mid trio level opponents that Sanji can solo three of at the same time. They're closer to the monster than the mid trio, especially Pica. They're not SO MUCH weaker than Vergo that Pica, Diamante and Trebol TOGETHER is roughly on par with Vergo ALONE. What the hell. This is ridiculous. Zoro and Sanji might be able to win, but it would be a very tough fight. The High Executives are Doflamingo's equivalent of Zoro + Sanji. They're weaker individually, but they make up for it with twice the numbers. In a fight with three other HEs helping Pica is not the non-threat he was in the manga. Trebol's goo was able to hold down Luffy and a mere glimpse of his power was enough for Robin to immediately say they can't possibly fight him. Diamante showed some reasonable speed and evasiveness when he fought Kyros and his sword is, contrary to popular belief, not a toothpick. Vergo's showings go without saying. If Zoro and Sanji win, it's after a very tough fight.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 26, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> In a fight with three other HEs helping Pica is not the non-threat he was in the manga.



Pica held off zoro, and zoro couldn't do anything (by his own admission). But, Pica couldn't do anything to zoro either.



> Trebol's goo was able to hold down Luffy



True, but then again who hasn't been able to hold down luffy?


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## Pirao (Aug 26, 2015)

People are syaing Zoro and Sanji win mid-diff, really? Wow. It would be very high diff, some of you talk as if Zoro can fodderize Vergo or something.


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## Amol (Aug 26, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> The underestimation of the Seats is going too far. They're not some mid trio level opponents that Sanji can solo three of at the same time. They're closer to the monster than the mid trio, especially Pica. They're not SO MUCH weaker than Vergo that Pica, Diamante and Trebol TOGETHER is roughly on par with Vergo ALONE. What the hell. This is ridiculous. Zoro and Sanji might be able to win, but it would be a very tough fight. The High Executives are Doflamingo's equivalent of Zoro + Sanji. They're weaker individually, but they make up for it with twice the numbers. In a fight with three other HEs helping Pica is not the non-threat he was in the manga. Trebol's goo was able to hold down Luffy and a mere glimpse of his power was enough for Robin to immediately say they can't possibly fight him. Diamante showed some reasonable speed and evasiveness when he fought Kyros and his sword is, contrary to popular belief, not a toothpick. Vergo's showings go without saying. If Zoro and Sanji win, it's after a very tough fight.


Well I don't see it as underestimation.
Pica : Only reason he lasted that long because he was not trying to fight. He kept running away. The moment Zoro got him he lost . Sanji is specialized in CoO. I have faith that he can find real Pica more quickly . It is not like Pica's offensive is anything to brag about. Don Sai tanked his punch just fine.
Trebol : A half dead, armless Law defeated him. We saw exactly how strong his Suicide attack (which should be the strongest) is (which is lame).
Both Luffy and Law treated him as non threat in entire fight. Trebol had much stronger support there (Doflamingo) and he did jack shit. Not even a scratch.
Sorry I also can't see him as threat.
Diamante : Kyros on panel admitted that moving on one leg had tired him.
He was fatigued by jumping around all over the Dressrosa.
Sanji(or Zoro)is ten times more agile and faster than him. Sanji can also fly so I fail to see how Diamante can contribute in fight.
And as tanman said there is no such thing as underestimating Diamante.
Franky and Robin together can beat him.
Sanji mid diffs Pica.
Sanji low diffs Trebol
Sanji low diffs Diamante.
Overall Sanji High diffs trio .
If I had said that Zoro solos those three no one would have even batted an eye.
Corus, I still believe that Sanji is M3 level.


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## Coruscation (Aug 26, 2015)

It's grave underestimation. _Mid diff_ win for Zoro and Sanji? You completely ignore the factors of teamwork, how MUCH more difficult fighting 2v1 or 3v1 is, how all three Seats have viable offense if they hit, how Trebol has highly effective debilitation which will literally blow up if Sanji tries to burn it off, Pica has sheer volume, power and evasiveness etc. You can't dismiss Trebol as threat in a 3v1 vs. Sanji alone because he wasn't a threat against the combined power of Luffy and Law, even alongside Doflamingo. You can't dismiss Pica in a 3v1 vs. Sanji because he couldn't threaten Zoro in 1v1. That is absolutely freaking ridiculous. Do you realize how much of a non sequitur that is? Diamante is obviously not meant to be much weaker than his colleagues even if Oda fucked up his feats. Kyros is strong, and Diamante was dodging and dealing with his attacks just fine until literally the last moment of the fight.

M3 level *does not mean* soloing the three Seats at the same time. That's completely baseless. They are well above the mid trio. Closer to the monster trio. Robin herself called Diamante a monster and a single, tiny showcase of Trebol's strength was enough for her to immediately be able to tell they must not try to fight him. Trebol was portrayed as a monster compared to Robin. You can't be a monster to the likes of Robin and still lose 3v1 against the weakest M3 member with even stronger support. There's nothing in the manga supporting that.


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## tanman (Aug 26, 2015)

I would have said high or very high diff.
But definitely a win.


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## Tenma (Aug 26, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> M3 level *does not mean* soloing the three Seats at the same time. That's completely baseless. They are well above the mid trio. Closer to the monster trio. Robin herself called Diamante a monster and a single, tiny showcase of Trebol's strength was enough for her to immediately be able to tell they must not try to fight him. Trebol was portrayed as a monster compared to Robin. You can't be a monster to the likes of Robin and still lose 3v1 against the weakest M3 member with even stronger support. There's nothing in the manga supporting that.



Mr 4 and Ms Merry Christmas were referred to as monsters too, didn't stop Chopper and Usopp from ultimately beating them even though they definitely would have ran away from them if they had that option (and in terms of technical stats the 2 were far superior).

Robin easily redirected Diamante's sword, blocked Trebol's slime attack, tricked him using a clone, and withstood Diamante's spike rain. While she is technically the weaker of the 2 (due to being less of a stats-based fighter than Franky or Brook, and rather more relying on wits and openings), if it came down to a fight she wasn't allowed to avoid I think she stands a chance of winning, even if it's tough as hell.


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## Amol (Aug 26, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> It's grave underestimation. _Mid diff_ win for Zoro and Sanji? You completely ignore the factors of teamwork, how MUCH more difficult fighting 2v1 or 3v1 is, how all three Seats have viable offense if they hit, how Trebol has highly effective debilitation which will literally blow up if Sanji tries to burn it off, Pica has sheer volume, power and evasiveness etc. You can't dismiss Trebol as threat in a 3v1 vs. Sanji alone because he wasn't a threat against the combined power of Luffy and Law, even alongside Doflamingo. You can't dismiss Pica in a 3v1 vs. Sanji because he couldn't threaten Zoro in 1v1. That is absolutely freaking ridiculous. Do you realize how much of a non sequitur that is? Diamante is obviously not meant to be much weaker than his colleagues even if Oda fucked up his feats. Kyros is strong, and Diamante was dodging and dealing with his attacks just fine until literally the last moment of the fight.
> 
> M3 level *does not mean* soloing the three Seats at the same time. That's completely baseless. They are well above the mid trio. Closer to the monster trio. Robin herself called Diamante a monster and a single, tiny showcase of Trebol's strength was enough for her to immediately be able to tell they must not try to fight him. Trebol was portrayed as a monster compared to Robin. You can't be a monster to the likes of Robin and still lose 3v1 against the weakest M3 member with even stronger support. There's nothing in the manga supporting that.


Well I was saying a Mid(high) diff.
If you want to argue for High(low) diff overall then I can see it happening but it will be still for efforts.
I don't see either of Straw Hats getting much injured in fight.
Edit : As for Robin calling Trebol monster. She also taunted Diamante with smile on face .
She thought Trebol was a logia. For hakiless person it is a impossible fight.


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## Coruscation (Aug 26, 2015)

Tenma said:


> Mr 4 and Ms Merry Christmas were referred to as monsters too, didn't stop Chopper and Usopp from ultimately beating them even though they definitely would have ran away from them if they had that option (and in terms of technical stats the 2 were far superior).
> 
> Robin easily redirected Diamante's sword, blocked Trebol's slime attack, tricked him using a clone, and withstood Diamante's spike rain. While she is technically the weaker of the 2 (due to being less of a stats-based fighter than Franky or Brook, and rather more relying on wits and openings), if it came down to a fight she wasn't allowed to avoid I think she stands a chance of winning, even if it's tough as hell.



No they weren't. Not in the same context at any rate, that's for sure.

She never fought Diamante directly. Coming out of nowhere and surprise deflecting his sword with an advanced technique means nothing for an actual fight. She never blocked any slime attacks from Trebol. What the hell does tricking Trebol have to do with taking him on in a fight? Trebol caught up with Robin's clone in an instant. Then he threw a ship and completely devastated Usopp, Robin and the dwarves' assault in the blink of an eye. They were completely helpless against him. It only took him shooting a fly for Robin to immediately conclude that they absolutely must not fight him. That's as blatant an indication of inferiority as it possibly gets. If Robin could take on Trebol she would have. Franky got pummeled extremely badly by Sen?r Pink. A normal Executive. Franky and Pink were relatively close in power. Pica was weaker than Zoro fresh out of Mihawk's training, but literally and figuratively dwarfed everyone else not an M3 level fighter or above. The evidence is extremely clear that the mid trio stands no chance against the Seats whatsoever.


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## Freechoice (Aug 26, 2015)

Trebol got beaten by Law's freshly amputated arm 

Diamante got beaten by a rock 

Pica is a little punkass 

Vergo is overrated as fuck 


Sanji & Zoro high diff at most


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## Sir Curlyhat (Aug 26, 2015)

_While i agree with the fact that Vergo stands out from the other Seats, the rest are not that much weaker. Disregarding match-ups, if i were to compare the members of the two teams going from the strongest to the weakest, in my opinion :

Zoro > Sanji with very high difficulty
Sanji > Vergo extreme difficulty 
Vergo > Pica high difficulty
Pica > Trebol or Diamante between high and very high difficulty

Zoro and Sanji might be able to win. In a direct encounter i believe Vergo alone can truly stand up to them properly, but in a team fight Pica and Diamante would be able to manipulate the entire battlefield in their favor, and Trebol could use his DF power to restrict their movement for at least a little while, which could create openings for a heavy hitter like Vergo. We've already seen what can happen if one does not properly evade or deflect his attacks when he went up against Sanji, and Zoro's bones aren't that much tougher either if Vergo connects with his body. My vote goes to Zoro and Sanji, but their opponents definitely have the proper tools to be a serious threat and sometimes even win, depending on how each encounter develops._


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## Extravlad (Aug 26, 2015)

> Sanji mid diffs Pica.
> Sanji low diffs Trebol
> Sanji low diffs Diamante.


Based on what? Your insane Sanji bias?
Vergo humiliated Sanji without even fighting seriously or using his bamboo.
People keep acting like Vergo >>>>>>>> Seats jut because the don't want to admit that Sanji is just as weak and shit as Diamante/Trebol/Pica.


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## charles101 (Aug 26, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> She never blocked any slime attacks from Trebol.



Then... What is it?


*Spoiler*: __


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## Coruscation (Aug 26, 2015)

It's Hajrudin putting down a rock between Robin and Trebol.


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## Six (Aug 26, 2015)

tanman said:


> *Sanji beats Pica and Diamante.*
> Zoro beats Vergo and Trebol.
> 
> Easy peasy.



Nice troll, one of the better ones I've seen this year.


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## charles101 (Aug 26, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> It's Hajrudin putting down a rock between Robin and Trebol.



And these hands are touching it, because it's so sensuous + people from Toei are blind, yup?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spEgkja5bL4[/youtube]


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## barreltheif (Aug 26, 2015)

Could go either way.
The idea of Sanji soloing the seats is just lol.


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## Coruscation (Aug 26, 2015)

charles101 said:


> And these hands are touching it, because it's so sensuous + people from Toei are blind, yup?
> 
> [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spEgkja5bL4[/youtube]



There are no hands in the front of the rock in the manga. There's no visual indication of it rising up from the ground. To make it rise from the ground Robin would have to stick her hands down in the ground and rip a big chunk of rock loose, then raise it up. Not only does that sound slow and clunky against a fast, dangerous enemy, it doesn't look like that's what she did. In the very same panel, the speech bubble of Hajrudin yelling "Stop!" is there and Robin reacts with apparent surprise and Trebol reacts with shock. You can also see clearly that she has a hand slightly behind her, not touching the rock at all. What purpose would that serve for lifting up the rock in such a way? It makes more sense that she raised a bunch of hands in defense at multiple points, including behind her.

The anime is completely irrelevant. If I actually watched it regularly or had watched it any time recently I could probably compile a list of things they have gotten wrong, and it would neither be short nor pretty. But I'll have to settle for just saying it doesn't matter one bit because it's a separate continuity and non-canon.


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## Ekkologix (Aug 26, 2015)

Amol said:


> Zoro solos Vergo high diff .
> Sanji solos Pica, Diamante and Trebol.
> Mid diff win for Straw Hats .



Zoro high diffs Vergo that Law one shot?

Sanji soloes the other 3 seats.

        
        ​

I'm saying the truth and you are the one trolling imo. Those seats wont put up a fight against Zoro if he went all out. Zoro will probably mid to extreme diff them all (depending on his full power). Those seats are just bunch of oneshots to attacks weaker than M3 level (bar Vergo) 

Sanji can probably solo Diamante, Trebol and Pica. He just needs more feats so I wont totally disagree with you on this; but, Zoro doesn't need a high diff for Vergo


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## Ekkologix (Aug 26, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> The underestimation of the Seats is going too far. They're not some mid trio level opponents that Sanji can solo three of at the same time. *They're closer to the monster than the mid trio, especially Pica*. They're not SO MUCH weaker than Vergo that Pica, Diamante and Trebol TOGETHER is roughly on par with Vergo ALONE.



No they are not close to M3 level (bar Vergo). The underestimation of the Strawhats is worst than the underestimation of the seats. But look:

*Trebol:*
- Base Luffy just casually kick Trebol out of the way.
- Semi dead Law took out Trebol like he is nothing.
- Luffy got couple of easy openings to 1 shot Trebol but Doffy protected him.
- Robin reacted to him but was scared due to thinking he is Logia (Trebol had a really good reaction time hype but Oda killed it).
- Usopp landed a hit on him but lost all confidence after Trebol got his body back (thinking he is Logia).
- No CoA hardening feat. 

*Diamante:*
- His sword-flag play is very slow and weak that Rebecca could dodge and Robin could twist around. 
- Lost to a tired one legged man who was jumping around whole day with just 1 shot.
- His so proud attack got easily covered by Robin and was tanked by Kyros (low M3 level)
- His reaction time is slow as shown on his battle VS Kyros.
- No CoA hardening feat. Also very terrible durability.

*Pica:*
- His golem parts were casually destroyed by base Luffy/Zoro.
- His first showdown with Zoro was a total low diff defeat for him so he went to hide again.
- Cannot stall much without alot of stones around. Location is not specified here so let's assume he has a moderate amount of stones which means he would be stalling less than on Dressrosa.
- He can take damage directly on his golem form if he didn't get out of it. This will make him easier target for Sanji and his CoO.
- Has a CoA hardening feat and a giant body but it was totally irrelevant VS Zoro. Zoro arguably used on of his strong end attacks though.

*Vergo:*
- Bested Sanji for a bit but this is nothing new. Alot of the 3rd strongest Villains start besting Sanji for a bit, after that Sanji triumph. Look at Kuroobi, Mr.2, and Jyabura for examples. The fight between Vergo and Sanji is arguably eitherway but very hard diff for whoever wins (leaning toward Vergo featwise)
- Beated Smoker who is arguably a low-end M3 level guy.
- Got taken by a strong hit from Law. It bypassed his Haki, however, Vergo would put up a bit of a fight against Law if it wasn't for the Hax slash.

Vergo is a mid-M3 level. Rest is really far below. Franky could of beat Senor by a mid diff if he was on his Shogun or if he actually didn't bother playing the manliness game. Franky is above Senor in every stat but speed and flexibility. I'm also pretty sure Franky would be able to beat Diamante if he was on his Shogun.

The non-Vergo seats are just that weak sadly. Pica might be right on the middle of the gap between mid3 and M3


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## Grimm6Jack (Aug 26, 2015)

The Seats are definitely not as weak as some people are making them out to be.
Sanji beating 3 Seats?
Zoro soloing them?
Ridiculous...

I believe it can go either way, while Zoro and Sanji are the strongest, the executives are not so far behind and have a couple of abilities going on them and of course the superior number of teammates.


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## Coruscation (Aug 26, 2015)

Go D. Usopp said:


> No they are not close to M3 level (bar Vergo). The underestimation of the Strawhats is worst than the underestimation of the seats. But look:
> 
> *Trebol:*
> - Base Luffy just casually kick Trebol out of the way.
> ...



Nothing but hyperbolic downplay. You're wildly making things up, like Usopp "losing confidence" or Robin being "scared" due to thinking Trebol is a Logia. You exaggerate their moments of weakness with the same trite hyperbole that people love to use around here, sprinkled with flat-out lies because why not. Make an honest argument, maybe then I'll care enough to actually engage in what can reasonably be called a debate, because this is not one.


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## Ekkologix (Aug 26, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> Nothing but hyperbolic downplay. You're wildly making things up, like Usopp "losing confidence" or Robin being "scared" due to thinking Trebol is a Logia. You exaggerate their moments of weakness with the same trite hyperbole that people love to use around here, sprinkled with flat-out lies because why not. Make an honest argument, maybe then I'll care enough to actually engage in what can reasonably be called a debate, because this is not one.



But thats what accually happened. Usopp had a boost of confidence and cut Trebol up with a shiruken star. After Trebol reformed himself Usopp's confidence and bravery were all lost again and he returned back to his original cowardice. I'm not making anything up. Its just Trebol abusing his abilities against a coward non-Haki enemy here. I'm not saying that Trebol is W3 level or anything like that though, I was just referring to how easy it is to hit Trebol (All Logia users do that anyways, too over confident of their intangibility). Also Usopp would of put a bit of better fight and dodge couple of Trebol attacks if he wasn't scared and if it wasn't offpaneled in the first place.

As for Robin, she was scared about Trebol being a Logia more than his reaction speed. She could react to Trebol (up to some extent with the clone and the stone), however she was more afraid that the Dwarfs will get easily captured by Trebol. She was more scared for others than herself. Again she is smart and she knew that she cannot do anything, unlike when she was VS Diamante or when she saw Pica.


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## barreltheif (Aug 26, 2015)

Diamante did fine in the coliseum given that Sabo was in the same match as him. People are just underrating him because they underrate Kyros.
Trebol did badly against Luffy and Law (though he did manage to trap Luffy), but he was impressive before that, and it was made clear that he's way above Robin.
Pica is actually quite strong, he got huge hype, and he was impressive 90% of the time. He was just screwed in the end because his opponent was Zoro.
They're all weaker than Sanji, but Sanji definitely isn't low diffing any of them. Pica + one of the others would probably beat Sanji or at least give him a lot of trouble.


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## Amol (Aug 26, 2015)

Go D. Usopp said:


> Zoro high diffs Vergo that Law one shot?
> 
> Sanji soloes the other 3 seats.
> 
> ...


And here Corus thought that I was underestimating seats 
Zoro mid diffing Vergo+ Pica+ Trebol + Diamante?
Sure why not.


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## Kaiser (Aug 26, 2015)

The Strawhats will lose. Pica's abilty is annoying unless Zoro takes him on himself full force starting battle(without PIS) and if he does that, nothing stops the rest of the seat to gangbang on Sanji finishing him off considering i consider Vergo alone to be stronger than Sanji, at least based on what he showed so far. And if Zoro takes care of Vergo(who'd probably be a high diff fight), the rest of the seats will finish Sanji meanwhile. I'm still not convinced in Sanji's capability to defeat Pica, and with Trebol's tricky ability alongside Diamante's swordsmanship skills and environmental attacks, i don't see him faring well either. I think they'd even finish Sanji faster than Zoro will deal with Vergo and help Vergo win


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## Coruscation (Aug 26, 2015)

Go D. Usopp said:


> But thats what accually happened. Usopp had a boost of confidence and cut Trebol up with a shiruken star. After Trebol reformed himself Usopp's confidence and bravery were all lost again and he returned back to his original cowardice. I'm not making anything up. Its just Trebol abusing his abilities against a coward non-Haki enemy here. I'm not saying that Trebol is W3 level or anything like that though, I was just referring to how easy it is to hit Trebol (All Logia users do that anyways, too over confident of their intangibility). Also Usopp would of put a bit of better fight and dodge couple of Trebol attacks if he wasn't scared and if it wasn't offpaneled in the first place.
> 
> As for Robin, she was scared about Trebol being a Logia more than his reaction speed. She could react to Trebol (up to some extent with the clone and the stone), however she was more afraid that the Dwarfs will get easily captured by Trebol. She was more scared for others than herself. Again she is smart and she knew that she cannot do anything, unlike when she was VS Diamante or when she saw Pica.



What on earth are you talking about? Is this some anime bullshit you're referring to? Because absolutely none of it happened in the manga. All that happened was that Usopp attacked with the Shuriken Star and then we returned and he was beaten into a pulp with zero difficulty. Nothing else.

Stop lying. Robin didn't even know Trebol was a Logia as far as I remember. Even if she did it doesn't matter at all. She ONLY saw him shoot that fly, and THEN realized they can't possibly fight him head-on. That one display of power changed everything. If she could have fought she would have done so.


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## Monstar6 (Aug 26, 2015)

To beat Pica having CoO is not enough.
As it was shown in the manga Pica can move very quickly in the rock so even if you located his body he will just have to move in a another place.

To beat Pica you have to:
1/ Isolate him from the rock
2/ Bypass is CoA

So no, Sanji , based on actual feats, cannot beat Pica.

I think that the straw hat team win Hard diff.


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## NUMBA1TROLL (Aug 26, 2015)

What I think:

Smoker >= Sanji (I can see someone argue Smoker and Sanji are equals, but Smoker is definitely not below Sanji)
Vergo > Smoker (Vergo didn't even go FBH when he laid the smackdown on Smoker)

Vergo can definitely take out Sanji in a 1 vs 1 fight, I am afraid. Hell memories can probably match bamboo Vergo, but when FBH comes out it will be game over for Sanji, unless he has a trump card better than Hell memories.

Zoro has to beat all three seats before Vergo takes out Sanji, which I doubt can happen. Zoro is the strongest one here, but 3 vs 1 is hard. I think Zoro can win 1 vs 2, but I am doubtful on 1 vs 3 even with Asura.

Trebol has great tag-team abilities; golem Pica is impossible to take out with 2 seats distracting Zoro.

Diamante is a clown, but he is actually pretty strong. If he didn't pass out on a rock, Kyros might've lost.

I do think Zoro and Sanji will have better teamwork though and this could help evening the odds.


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## Ekkologix (Aug 26, 2015)

Amol said:


> And here Corus thought that I was underestimating seats
> Zoro mid diffing Vergo+ Pica+ Trebol + Diamante?
> Sure why not.



Thats why its mid to extreme... Its all up to Oda and how strong is Zoro's full power 

G4 Luffy can beat the 4 seats together; None would of though Luffy can do that until G4 is revealed. Same thing can happen with Zoro, and even Sanji. Oda indeed shat on Sanji but he can fix that if he wanted.



Coruscation said:


> What on earth are you talking about? Is this some anime bullshit you're referring to? Because absolutely none of it happened in the manga. All that happened was that Usopp attacked with the Shuriken Star and then we returned and he was beaten into a pulp with zero difficulty. Nothing else.
> 
> Stop lying. Robin didn't even know Trebol was a Logia as far as I remember. Even if she did it doesn't matter at all. She ONLY saw him shoot that fly, and THEN realized they can't possibly fight him head-on. That one display of power changed everything. If she could have fought she would have done so.



No I'm referring to where Usopp thought about the Tontattas suffering and then got that boost of courage to fight Trebol. The rest is a speculation or anime filler so it's not as important, although its implied that Usopp lost his confidence after he saw Trebol's ability to regain his body. Moreover, that is not even the point that I'm trying to say lol. I'm just stating that Trebol had the Logia over-confidence, though he wasn't even that strong to live up to the confidence, just like Caribou. A perfect example is when Law cut Trebol with Radio Knife. Trebol had the confidence but he lost it miserably after he saw how he was cut. He will repeat the same confidence act VS Sanji and Zoro just like he did VS Law, Luffy, Robin and Usopp so far.

True, Robin got scared after she saw that fly shot because this meant that the tontattas cannot go with their plan anymore as they will get shot just like the fly. Moreover, Robin was not scared for herself as much as for them. She by herself did a good job stalling Trebol and even blocked his attack. She knew Trebol is either a Logia or Paramecia by seeing him use his ability iirc. Anyways my point here is Robin would actually put up some fight against Trebol with her clones and high reaction speed. She can block the snot by her hands before it reaches her as was shown on the Manga. I think she doesn't even have to block it with a stone.


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## Coruscation (Aug 26, 2015)

Go D. Usopp said:


> No I'm referring to where Usopp thought about the Tontattas suffering and then got that boost of courage to fight Trebol. The rest is a speculation or anime filler so it's not as important, although its implied that Usopp lost his confidence after he saw Trebol's ability to regain his body. Moreover, that is not even the point that I'm trying to say lol. I'm just stating that Trebol had the Logia over-confidence, though he wasn't even that strong to live up to the confidence, just like Caribou. A perfect example is when Law cut Trebol with Radio Knife. Trebol had the confidence but he lost it miserably after he saw how he was cut. He will repeat the same confidence act VS Sanji and Zoro just like he did VS Law, Luffy, Robin and Usopp so far.
> 
> True, Robin got scared after she saw that fly shot because this meant that the tontattas cannot go with their plan anymore as they will get shot just like the fly. Moreover, Robin was not scared for herself as much as for them. She by herself did a good job stalling Trebol and even blocked his attack. She knew Trebol is either a Logia or Paramecia by seeing him use his ability iirc. Anyways my point here is Robin would actually put up some fight against Trebol with her clones and high reaction speed. She can block the snot by her hands before it reaches her as was shown on the Manga. I think she doesn't even have to block it with a stone.



There is absolutely no implication that Usopp lost his confidence. Stop making up bullshit. We don't even know if Trebol is a Logia for christ's sakes. Trebol isn't some fucking Caribou. Just brief showings of his strength had Robin cowering away and knowing she can't fight him. He looked weak against LUFFY AND LAW. Two top Supernova captains. This is so far removed from what he can do in a 3v1 against Sanji, or a 4v2 against Sanji and Zoro, it's not even funny.

If she could do jack shit against Trebol she would have DONE that. Hold him down and let the dwarves go for Sugar. Why the hell not? Why the elaborate distraction if she could just fight? Why did she completely give up and didn't even try to fight when Trebol came back and the dwarves were captured and could easily be killed? Instead she tried a sneaky hit on Sugar. It makes no sense whatsoever for any of this to happen if she can take on Trebol in personal combat. Robin saw that Trebol was too powerful plain and simple. She considers the High Executives "monsters" which is not a term you use for someone around your own strength. It is used by weaker people to refer to people who are like monsters to them. Robin never stalled Trebol IN ACTUAL COMBAT. Stop being dishonest. The moment Trebol turned his gaze on her in seriousness he caught up in an instant and pinned her. Later on she looked very concerned as soon as he attacked and the rock from Hajrudin helped her. She can't block snot with her hands because he can use snot blades which will cut right through and damage her easily. He has shown huge strength and high speed. Even Sugar could react to her clutch, Trebol will have no issues. Robin stands no chance against Trebol plain and simple. To say anything else is to spit in the face of the manga.


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## Ekkologix (Aug 26, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> There is absolutely no implication that Usopp lost his confidence. Stop making up bullshit. We don't even know if Trebol is a Logia for christ's sakes. Trebol isn't some fucking Caribou. Just brief showings of his strength had Robin cowering away and knowing she can't fight him. He looked weak against LUFFY AND LAW. Two top Supernova captains. This is so far removed from what he can do in a 3v1 against Sanji, or a 4v2 against Sanji and Zoro, it's not even funny.
> 
> If she could do jack shit against Trebol she would have DONE that. Hold him down and let the dwarves go for Sugar. Why the hell not? Why the elaborate distraction if she could just fight? Why did she completely give up and didn't even try to fight when Trebol came back and the dwarves were captured and could easily be killed? Instead she tried a sneaky hit on Sugar. It makes no sense whatsoever for any of this to happen if she can take on Trebol in personal combat. Robin saw that Trebol was too powerful plain and simple. She considers the High Executives "monsters" which is not a term you use for someone around your own strength. It is used by weaker people to refer to people who are like monsters to them. Robin never stalled Trebol IN ACTUAL COMBAT. Stop being dishonest. The moment Trebol turned his gaze on her in seriousness he caught up in an instant and pinned her. Later on she looked very concerned as soon as he attacked and the rock from Hajrudin helped her. She can't block snot with her hands because he can use snot blades which will cut right through and damage her easily. He has shown huge strength and high speed. Even Sugar could react to her clutch, Trebol will have no issues. Robin stands no chance against Trebol plain and simple. To say anything else is to spit in the face of the manga.



Thats why its a speculation and likely implied. It has always being that Usopp loses his confidence when he sees someone scary or someone that he cannot fight and beat in anyways. On the other hand one cannot deny that Trebol always lets himself gets hit regardless of his enemy, and yes everyone thought Trebol was a logia at that time, even Law who was with Trebol for a long time. Though it was later revealed that its a paramecia fruit. It's very easy to think that a DF user is a Logia eater just by their elemental appearance and attacks. Now base Luffy and one armed and tired Law took care of Trebol very easily. He is clearly much below that level. They just see him as a complete nuisance. 

When Robin saw Trebol's ability she realized that she cannot beat him. He seemed like an experienced Logia user for her lol. She cannot beat Logia regardless. The best she can do is stall for time with her clones and tricks. It's just a terrible matchup for Robin. Also about the stone, I'm not sure if it was Robin or Hajrudin that placed it there, but Robin was going to block that attack with her hands (why would Hajrudin just put the stone like that though. I've always thought it was Robin who did it while someone was saying stop). Also Robin is smart enough and will know how to stall and which attacks she have to dodge. Anyways as you can see my point here was to only show you that Trebol is more closer to Robin than casual Luffy and injured Law, even though its a bad matchup for Robin. So basically Trebol is far from Zoro tier people.

We are going a bit far from the topic btw, and you are going more in dept on this small example about Trebol lol.


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## Dunno (Aug 26, 2015)

Pirao said:


> People are syaing Zoro and Sanji win mid-diff, really? Wow. It would be very high diff, some of you talk as if Zoro can fodderize Vergo or something.



Well, since Vergo is in character, he's going to try to tank Zoro's slash with his FBH. If he played it smart he could probably put up a little more of a fight, but taking Zoro's attack head on isn't going to work.


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## Captain Altintop (Aug 26, 2015)

Zoro beats Vergo with high ( high ) to extreme diff.
Zoro beats Diamante with mid ( mid-high ) diff.
=> Vergo + Diamante beats Zoro with high ( mid-low ) diff. 

Sanji beats Pica with mid ( high ) diff.
Sanji beats Trebol with mid ( mid-high ) diff.
=> Sanji beats Pica + Trebol with  high ( high ) to extreme diff. 

Zoro is getting beaten up earlier than Sanji could finish Pica + Trebol.

===> Team Executives win


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## J★J♥ (Aug 26, 2015)

Vergo solos. come at me.


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## Extravlad (Aug 26, 2015)

> Zoro beats Vergo with high ( high ) to extreme diff.


 That Zoro downplay


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## Etherborn (Aug 26, 2015)

Putting the seats in character basically makes Pica a stronger asset. The guy can't do shit without his devil fruit hardening or otherwise, but with it we saw how long he can keep Zoro occupied, and he wouldn't be stalling much if he was bloodlusted. It's sad to say but the other three are idiots and aren't going to perform as well if their in character. Zoro in character is going to go after either Pica or Vergo since he probably won't see the other two as worth it (and rightfully so). 

But another thing we shouldn't disregard is the "dynamic duo's" teamwork. IC Zoro and Sanji are going to bust out the combos, and I'm guessing Sanji can launch Zoro much better than Orlumbus can.

What I see happening is Vergo and Diamante will charge ahead and attack head on while Trebol supports from behind and Pica gets his golem up. Zoro will hold off Vergo while Sanji blitzes Diamante and takes him out of the fight (low difficulty, maybe low-mid with Trebol interfering). Then Sanji will launch Zoro towards Pica's golem and Zoro will defeat Pica with his Daisen/Sanzen Sekai combo (mid difficulty exertion). 

That will leave Sanji alone with Vergo and Trebol for a little while, so after that it's a slightly winded Zoro vs. a fresh Vergo and a moderately injured Sanji vs. Trebol. I'd say that Zoro can pull it off mid-high difficulty since Vergo will be tanking most of his attacks, while Sanji can win low-mid difficulty since all he really has to do is sky walk and light Trebol on fire from above. 

Overall, Zoro and Sanji mid-high, maybe high difficulty. If you put the mindset on bloodlusted, then that's a different story, but IC heavily favors the Strawhat duo.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Aug 26, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> That Zoro downplay



anything less than 1shot is downplay for Zoro


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 26, 2015)

Vergo beats Sanji to death, while Pica and Trebol hold down Zoro until Vergo finishes off Sanji and strolls over to do the same to Zoro.


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## Tornado (Aug 26, 2015)

Sanji stalls Vergo while Zoro low-diffs Pika, Diamante and Trebol. Zoro then tells Sanji to stand back and kills Vergo mid diff.

Overall difficulty? Sanji gets a few leg bones cracked, Zoro gets his workout for the day.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 26, 2015)

if Zoro couldnt low diff Pica in the manga why would he be able to do so in this scenario when Pica has back-up?


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## Tornado (Aug 26, 2015)

Yes, I'm assuming that he doesn't run away like a bitch.


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## Arkash (Aug 26, 2015)

Zoro solos


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## Gohara (Aug 26, 2015)

The Seats win with mid to high (closer to mid than high) difficulty.  Diamante and Trebol defeat Sanji with around mid difficulty at most.  Vergo and Pica defeat Zoro with high to extremely high difficulty.


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## GreenStache (Aug 27, 2015)

Can Zoro find Picas real body in time before the other three put Sanji down?


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## MYJC (Aug 27, 2015)

I'd actually lean toward the seats from what we've seen. 

Zoro is probably strong enough to beat Pica and one other seat, but I'm having a hard time seeing Sanji defeat more than one seat...he'd be doing well to beat Vergo. And I dunno about Zoro taking three seats either, though it's possible he has some hax technique he hasn't shown yet that's strong enough to do this. 

For now, seats win very high diff.


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## Zooted (Aug 27, 2015)

If Zoro has something up his sleeves they win, if he doesn't they lose.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Aug 27, 2015)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> if Zoro couldnt low diff Pica in the manga why would he be able to do so in this scenario when Pica has back-up?



because he won't need to chase Pica around defending Riku and Usopp 

If Pica runs away, Zoro will simply turn around and 1shot the other 3 execs


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## Etherborn (Aug 27, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> If Pica runs away, Zoro will simply turn around and 1shot the other 3 execs



I don't think he will.


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## Bernkastel (Aug 28, 2015)

Zoro and Sanji win.
Zoro oen-shots Diamante while Sanji one-shot Diamante.

Pica will be annoying but nothing threatening and his best bet is to hide and throw attacks via his golems.Sanji can occupy him untill Zoro beats Vergo with mid diff.

Zoro backs up Sanji in his quest to find the annoying Pica and stomp him.

High diff overall.


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## Empathy (Aug 28, 2015)

Vergo can beat Sanji, and I don't know about Zoro beating the other three at once, plus finishing off Vergo.


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## Finalbeta (Aug 28, 2015)

Sanji stalls Vergo for the time necessary for Zoro to finish off the trio, then Zoro helps half dead Sanji in beating spoon-boy


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Aug 31, 2015)

honestly Sansen Sekai can kill at 4 in one swoop


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## TheWiggian (Sep 1, 2015)

While Sanji occupies Vergo, Zoro surely can destroy the other 3. Pica couldn't do shit to him, Diamante was 1 shot by a handicaped exhausted man, Trebol got casually brushed aside by base Luffy/half dead Law. They're no challenge for the Grandmaster, all they can do is buy time.


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