# Luffy vs Doflamingo



## Quuon (Oct 20, 2015)

Location: Banaro Island
Mindset: Bloodlusted
Distance: 15 meters

-Doflamingo can only use haki. No fruit.
-Luffy can only use G2 and haki.

How does this fight go?


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Oct 20, 2015)

Doffy without his fruit still has better speed, reactions, haki and fight ability... but he doesn't have anything to put Luffy down....


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## killfox (Oct 20, 2015)

G2 is nothing to Doffy even without his fruit. Doffy wins Mid (high) diff only necause Luffy is durable.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Oct 20, 2015)

Luffy relies on his fruit to do attacks

without DF he is basically Vergo minus bamboosmanship


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## ShadoLord (Oct 20, 2015)

Doflamingo destroys. 

G2's offensive prowess only great enough to "tickle" Doflamingo.


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## Sumu (Oct 20, 2015)

Doffy wrecks Luffy, Luffy won't even be doing significant damage.


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## MYJC (Oct 20, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Doffy without his fruit still has better speed, reactions, haki and fight ability... but he doesn't have anything to put Luffy down....




Pretty much this, except that Doffy isn't faster than Luffy. This fight is going to go on for a long time because neither fighter has a good way to put the other down. 

Luffy is faster than Doffy and Doffy will have a harder time hitting him without his DF, and even if he did, Luffy (especially since he still has his DF) is very tanky and won't go down very easily to pure physical attacks. But by the same token, Doffy is very tanky as well and G2 attacks aren't going to do enough damage to put him down very easily. So without Strings/G4 they're just going to be pummeling each other for quite a while with no one having a clear advantage. It could go either way really.


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## Quikdraw7777 (Oct 20, 2015)

Doflamingo even commented on how weak  Gear 2nd was......

This was after a Eagle Bazooka landed cleanly on his torso - *post Gamma Knife*.


Mingo cleans Luffy up in this scenario.


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## Bernkastel (Oct 21, 2015)

Doffy isn't touching Luffy with kicks and punches. Luffy sooner or later will put him down. Red hawk clearly did damage.
His stats are still very high thought and it will be insanely hard to put him down as it'll take forever.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 21, 2015)

Luffy loses but gives Doffy high (low-mid) diff in this scenario. 
Will take long to beat down the MC with just kicks and punches, but on the other hand, besides RH Luffy got nothing to hurt DD in G2.


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## Finalbeta (Oct 21, 2015)

The fight goes on for a day at least but Mingo takes it


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## Raiden34 (Oct 21, 2015)

Doffy outlasts the first G4 then slaughters Luffy, high diffs.



Quuon said:


> -Doflamingo can only use haki. No fruit.
> -Luffy can only use G2 and haki.



Doffy with no DF ? Then Luffy wins with high diff.


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## CaptainCommanderRenji (Oct 21, 2015)

Doffy-kun wins but it's going to take a while.


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## Raiden34 (Oct 21, 2015)

How is Doffy would even give a serious damages without his DF ? All Mingo did is cutting and piercing Luffy with his DF power, he can't beat him in a pure H2H battle. Especially while Haki isn't canceling DF powers and Luffy is still rubber. Beating Rubber Luffy, even with Haki is still hell of a job.


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## Amol (Oct 21, 2015)

DD survived Gamma Knife and then Gear 4 beating back to back.
His durability and endurance is monstrous.
But so of Luffy's.
This will be one long drawn tedious fight.
If DD wins it will be solely by outlasting.
Luffy's chances looks better as he has more offense(like Red Hawk) than DD here.


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## Dunno (Oct 21, 2015)

Doflamingo mid diffs or something. He's too fast, too strong and too durable for G4-less Luffy.


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## killfox (Oct 21, 2015)

Erkan12 said:


> Doffy outlasts the first G4 then slaughters Luffy, high diffs.
> 
> 
> 
> Doffy with no DF ? Then Luffy wins with high diff.


Theres no G4 in this fight


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## killfox (Oct 21, 2015)

An on guard 100% Doflamingo will never get hit by Red Hawk. He only got hit due to shambles and wasn't even really hurt even tho he was off guard. In the event that Luffy did get one off (which he wont) Doffy would be blocking with Haki anyway and it wouldn't do anything.

G2 Gatling didnt do anything to Doffy, Eagle hawk didn't do anything, Luffy cant defend against Doffys haki and Doffy is fast enough to dodge all of Luffys G2 attacks.

In this match Doffy is like a buffed up Vergo, he doesnt need a DF.

Imagine if every enemy has base stats = or greater than Doffys AND a fruit.

Luffy's journey in the NW is about to get a lot harder


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## The Bloody Nine (Oct 21, 2015)

People should read Luffy vs DD again. Every single time DD tried to brawl with Luffy without using his string moves he got out traded. 

Luffy is faster and more skilled in CQC. DD is more durable and maybe a little stronger but they are more likely even. Endurance is about the same. I honestly think Luffy takes this every time but with very high difficulty.


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## killfox (Oct 21, 2015)

You should reread the fight ^
Luffy never traded with a fresh Doflamingo. Only an injured one. 

Before he took red hawk and injection shot Luffys Jet Gattaling got no sold and he got punched.

Luffy only hit Doffy when he was injured. And even then Doffy had the speed/strength to dodge or outright tank Luffys attacks.

No way is G2 Luffy winning this. G2 didn't even hurt Chinjao


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## Raiden34 (Oct 21, 2015)

killfox said:


> G2 didn't even hurt Chinjao



Correction : Chinjao's head, what is something can't be pierced by even Cavendish's sword.

And G2 is strong enough to do this.

[YOUTUBE]wWKNJWv3CRE[/YOUTUBE]


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## The Bloody Nine (Oct 21, 2015)

killfox said:


> Before he took red hawk and injection shot Luffys Jet Gattaling got no sold and he got punched.
> 
> Luffy only hit Doffy when he was injured. And even then Doffy had the speed/strength to dodge or outright tank Luffys attacks.
> 
> No way is G2 Luffy winning this. G2 didn't even hurt Chinjao



And Luffy had been fighting all day and using up his haki, so what ? Also when did Joker no sell a Gatling ? He dodged it, because he was scared of the damage it would do. Red Hawk and the Gatlings/ Storms are the most damaging moves either of them have  here and while DD will dodge them at first, he won't when damage and fatigue sets in a few hours into their fight.


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## killfox (Oct 21, 2015)

Erkan12 said:


> Correction : Chinjao's head, what is something can't be pierced by even Cavendish's sword.
> 
> And G2 is strong enough to do this.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]wWKNJWv3CRE[/YOUTUBE]



1 wow at posting a video of Luffy vs a fodder.

And 2. Are you gonna pretend Chinjap didnt take a direct hawk rifle to the gut and get up like it was nothing?


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## killfox (Oct 21, 2015)

The Bloody Nine said:


> And Luffy had been fighting all day and using up his haki, so what ?  Also when did Joker no sell a Gatling ? He dodged it, because he was scared of the damage it would do. Red Hawk and the Gatlings/ Storms are the most damaging moves either of them have  here and while DD will dodge them at first, he won't when damage and fatigue sets in a few hours into their fight.



He no sold Jet gattaling like he no sold Sanjis kicks. You need to reread the entire fight


This was a fresh Doflamingo. 

Also immediately after taking the red hawk Doffy broke through Luffys haki with a kick.

The fact that he can tank, dodge, and overpower Luffy says it all. He also has higher endurance and durability. Luffy can't do anything here.


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## Raiden34 (Oct 21, 2015)

killfox said:


> 1 wow at posting a video of Luffy vs a fodder.
> 
> And 2. Are you gonna pretend Chinjap didnt take a direct hawk rifle to the gut and get up like it was nothing?



You're just downplaying both Chinjao (who has 500 milion beli bounty & CoC) and Hajrudin who can strong enough to throw 10.000 ton weight to the sky....


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## Amol (Oct 21, 2015)

When it comes to pure CQC or physical fight Luffy is undoubtedly better than Doflamingo.
Doflamingo is good. Luffy is just better.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Oct 21, 2015)

killfox said:


> And 2. Are you gonna pretend Chinjap didnt take a direct hawk rifle to the gut and get up like it was nothing?



It did seem to hurt him though... he had a pained expression... do you expect these characters to stay down and get knockced out?


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## Raiden34 (Oct 21, 2015)

Amol said:


> When it comes to pure CQC or physical fight Luffy is undoubtedly better than Doflamingo.
> Doflamingo is good. Luffy is just better.



Yep, because CQC is Luffy's main play, while Doffy still needs his strings for many things....


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## MYJC (Oct 21, 2015)

I don't agree with the idea at all that G2 can't hurt Doffy. 

Doffy was literally bleeding from Luffy's punches regardless of his shit-talking. What happens on panel trumps trash talk. Obviously it was nowhere near enough to take him out (thus Luffy's decision to use G4) but if he was bleeding then he obviously felt the blows. 

That said Doffy is more experienced at using CoA, so blow-for-blow his hits *will* do more damage than Luffy's. But it's kind of balanced out by the fact that Luffy is faster and more agile, so Luffy will dodge more of Doffy's hits than Doffy will dodge of his. Not to mention Luffy still has his fruit so that'll somewhat lessen the damage from physical blows (which is all Doffy can do in this fight).


So basically you have two durability monsters with no attack that can do a huge amount of damage to the other, so this is going to be a long, dragged out, extreme-diff brawl that just depends on who can outlast who. It could go either way honestly.


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## Coruscation (Oct 21, 2015)

People constantly ignore how much Doflamingo uses his strings in combat.

When he came back from a quick Bazooka and landed a hit on Luffy? Used strings twice. First for a long-range Overheat that Luffy had to awkwardly dodge mid-air, putting him in a vulnerable position. Then traveling with strings through the air, being able to reach Luffy far more quickly than if he had to land on the ground first. This scene wouldn't play out at all if Doffy didn't have his strings. He would literally be falling down from the palace and have zero aerial maneuverability to deal with Luffy's follow up attacks. His strings had a huge impact.

When he evaded G3 (which obviously won't be a problem in this fight) and landed another kick? Used strings to move through the air.

When he avoided the Eagle Bazooka and kicked Luffy away? Used strings to significantly enhance the damage, and didn't even do much damage anyway.

When he landed a hit in the Palace? Used his string clone to distract Luffy.

Doflamingo _never_ purely outbrawled G2 Luffy.

He also *never* landed a hit on Luffy as cleanly as Luffy landed Bazooka. Doffy always had the aid of his air movement through strings. Luffy dodged Doffy's attacks in base multiple times, and got away from Break White while mid-air with no footing. G2 Luffy is definitely faster than Doffy, if not by much.

The only area Doffy is decisively ahead in is durability. But as much as it will take a monster load of G2 attacks to put him down, it will equally take a monster load of basic physical blows from Doffy to put Luffy down. G2 is faster, so Luffy has the advantage in terms of landing hits. Luffy is also more agile and mobile when Doffy's strings are taken away, which adds up to even more. I'm also not convinced attacks like Red Hawk or Hawk Gatling, which are what Luffy is going to be pulling out more and more as the battle drags on (while Doffy is stuck with the same old punches and kicks) won't do more damage to Doffy than Doffy can do to Luffy. Are you really going to suggest a basic non-string enhanced punch or kick from Doffy is on par with a Hawk Gatling or a Red Hawk? No way in hell.

Basically, G2 Luffy and Doffy can trade standard blows pretty evenly, with Doffy having an advantage in durability and Luffy an advantage in speed which means that Doffy's blows will do more damage but Luffy will land more of them, evening out. But the longer the fight drags on the more Luffy's high end attacks and superior pure brawling capabilities will start to pull it in his favor.


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## Raiden34 (Oct 21, 2015)




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## Quikdraw7777 (Oct 21, 2015)




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## Raiden34 (Oct 21, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __


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## savior2005 (Oct 21, 2015)

G2 isnt strong enough to beat doffy. also, doffy can strike back with haki.


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## Gohara (Oct 23, 2015)

Doflamingo wins with mid to high difficulty, IMO.  Without Luffy using Gear 3rd and Gear 4th, Doflamingo bests him in most categories.


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## Turrin (Oct 23, 2015)

How can people say Doffy wins, when Base-Luffy was blatantly beating a DD who wasn't using his DF. The Luffy underestimation needs to stop, the guy was matching an Admiral in G2 and besting DD as far as fighting skill and haki goes in Base. Luffy had a tough time with DD and needed G4, because DD's defensive capabilities with his DF were ridiculous, remove DD's DF and Luffy is clearly better in all regards.


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## Hachibi (Oct 23, 2015)

>Matching an Admiral
>Proceed to get BTFO when said Admiral attack him.


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## Turrin (Oct 23, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> >Matching an Admiral
> >Proceed to get BTFO when said Admiral attack him.


I think it's very clear that I meant in a physical sense. Fujitora is obviously stronger than Luffy.


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## Hachibi (Oct 23, 2015)

I mean even in a physical sense Fuji blocked/dodged every hit bar the first EG, which he did block but still got a scratch.


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## Turrin (Oct 23, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> I mean even in a physical sense Fuji blocked/dodged every hit bar the first EG, which he did block but still got a scratch.


Yes and I didn't say Luffy bested him, I said Luffy kept pace with him, which he did. It still shows that Luffy speed and combat skills are top notch to keep up with an Admiral in a physical regard. He also had Doffy outmatched in a purely physical sense, unless you want to say that was due to some unknown or not yet fully explained CoC mechanic, but if so that has it's own implications anyway.

The bottom line is Base/G2-Luffy was perfectly capable of outmatching DD in a physical confrontation. The problem with DD was his insane defense and durability granted to him by the versatility of his DF, that required Luffy to pull out the overwhelming power of King Kong Gun, to shut down. As DD said himself indicated, the problem was a lack of power in face of his defense, not a lack of fighting skill or speed.


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## killfox (Oct 23, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> People constantly ignore how much Doflamingo uses his strings in combat.


Who brought up the strings at all? 



Coruscation said:


> When he came back from a quick Bazooka and landed a hit on Luffy? Used strings twice. First for a long-range Overheat that Luffy had to awkwardly dodge mid-air, putting him in a vulnerable position. Then traveling with strings through the air, being able to reach Luffy far more quickly than if he had to land on the ground first. This scene wouldn't play out at all if Doffy didn't have his strings. He would literally be falling down from the palace and have zero aerial maneuverability to deal with Luffy's follow up attacks. His strings had a huge impact.


What your saying is irrelevant, the only thing that matters in this post is that the Bazooka did 0 damage to Doffy (POST GAMA KNIFE) and he literally laughed it off.  



Coruscation said:


> When he evaded G3 (which obviously won't be a problem in this fight) and landed another kick? Used strings to move through the air.


Not sure your point here. 



Coruscation said:


> When he avoided the Eagle Bazooka and kicked Luffy away? Used strings to significantly enhance the damage, and didn't even do much damage anyway.


He avoided eagle bazooka with his own speed. 



Coruscation said:


> When he landed a hit in the Palace? Used his string clone to distract Luffy.


What about when Luffy had time to defend against Doffys kick and Doffy kicked right through his haki defense? No strings were used.



Coruscation said:


> Doflamingo _never_ purely outbrawled G2 Luffy.


He never tried to while he was at 100 % are you going to ignore the damage Doffy took and claim it didnt affect his abilities? The whole point of weakining Doffy was to bring him down to a level where Luffy could win, and even then Doffy would have still won. 

Doffy took Red hawk (undefended), Injection shot, Gama knife, Luffys punches (while already weaked from the previously mentioned attacks), plus a bunch of G4 attacks  

Kong Gun  (as you can see his haki could still defend against G4 its just the added power from the retraction that sent him flying)


Rhino Schneider (without undefended)   

Calvary Cannon 

&

Leo Bazooka 

No way an Luffy deliver anything close to that without G4, G2 Luffy cant compete with a fresh Doffy physically period. 




Coruscation said:


> He also *never* landed a hit on Luffy as cleanly as Luffy landed Bazooka. Doffy always had the aid of his air movement through strings. Luffy dodged Doffy's attacks in base multiple times, and got away from Break White while mid-air with no footing. G2 Luffy is definitely faster than Doffy, if not by much..


 As i pointed out above the bazooka did no damage and we can see Luffy commenting on all the damage he took from Law. Even Luffy knew Doffy wasnt at 100 %



Coruscation said:


> The only area Doffy is decisively ahead in is durability.


Wrong. Superior Durability, stronger haki, and more physical strength. 



Coruscation said:


> But as much as it will take a monster load of G2 attacks to put him down, it will equally take a monster load of basic physical blows from Doffy to put Luffy down. G2 is faster, so Luffy has the advantage in terms of landing hits.


If Luffys hits dont damage Doffy how is Luffy suppose to win? If I recall Luffy had to use G2 to beat black knight. His base punch literally got swatted away. 



Coruscation said:


> Luffy is also more agile and mobile when Doffy's strings are taken away, which adds up to even more. I'm also not convinced attacks like Red Hawk or Hawk Gatling, which are what Luffy is going to be pulling out more and more as the battle drags on (while Doffy is stuck with the same old punches and kicks) won't do more damage to Doffy than Doffy can do to Luffy. Are you really going to suggest a basic non-string enhanced punch or kick from Doffy is on par with a Hawk Gatling or a Red Hawk? No way in hell.


 Luffy got a free hit with red hawk and  got owned shortly after. And Gatling was tanked as easily as Sanjis kicks. 

1 Luffy would never connect with red hawk himself, and even if he did Doffy would defend with CoA. 
2. Considering how weak G2 attacks are to Luffy and how every punch/kick Doffy threw hurt Luffy(even without strings) id say Doffys punches are superior to Luffys G2 attacks barring Red Hawk. 



Coruscation said:


> Basically, G2 Luffy and Doffy can trade standard blows pretty evenly, with Doffy having an advantage in durability and Luffy an advantage in speed which means that Doffy's blows will do more damage but Luffy will land more of them, evening out. But the longer the fight drags on the more Luffy's high end attacks and superior pure brawling capabilities will start to pull it in his favor.


Luffys attacks can easily be dodged or tanked head on with Doffys CoA. And your right Doffys hits will do more damage than Luffys. Damaged Doffy could take G4 punishment and keep going. Nothing G2 Luffy has will do much against a fresh Doffy.

Also most of what your saying about Doffy is Post gama knife, we know how it turned out when Luffy faced a fresh Doffy. Also without the help of Law he wont land his high end attacks (even if he does they can be blocked) without his fruit Doffy would focus more on haki.

Luffy goes down


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## killfox (Oct 23, 2015)

Turrin said:


> How can people say Doffy wins, when Base-Luffy was blatantly beating a DD who wasn't using his DF.


Connecting a few hits on a severly weakened opponent means nothing. Black knight swatted away base Luffys attacks. 



Turrin said:


> The Luffy underestimation needs to stop, the guy was matching an Admiral in G2 and besting DD as far as fighting skill and haki goes in Base.


He wasnt *matching* Fujitora, 1 Fujitora admired his spirit (which he said while fighting him), 2 Fuji wasnt serious and was humoring him by blocking all of his attacks, 3 as soon as Fuji used a single attack Luffy was blown away, 4 Fuji did all of this while being blind, concentrating on his CoO, and using his DF to hold a whole island worth of rocks and rubble above his head. 



Turrin said:


> Luffy had a tough time with DD and needed G4, because DD's defensive capabilities with his DF were ridiculous, remove DD's DF and Luffy is clearly better in all regards.


Luffy used G4 because his G2/G3 attacks were weak to Doffy and either didnt do much damage, got tanked, or dodged.


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## The Bloody Nine (Oct 23, 2015)

killfox said:


> What your saying is irrelevant, the only thing that matters in this post is that the Bazooka did 0 damage to Doffy (POST GAMA KNIFE) and he literally laughed it off.



No, DD SAID it did no damage, we have no idea how much it did but Erkan and others posted scans clearly showing DD hurting from other G2 punches. Like Law said, DD is a master of shit talk and getting into his opponents head; this was clearly more of the same. 



killfox said:


> Wrong. Superior Durability, stronger haki, and *more physical strength*.



I give you the first two but you need to prove the last. When DD wanted to stomp on Law, Luffy stopped him just fine from a position of negative leverage. In that scene Luffy looks physically stronger. 



killfox said:


> Also most of what your saying about Doffy is Post gama knife, we know how it turned out when Luffy faced a fresh Doffy. Also without the help of Law he wont land his high end attacks (even if he does they can be blocked) without his fruit Doffy would focus more on haki.
> 
> Luffy goes down



1) Luffy was tired and injured in EVERY engagement he had. 
2) Luffy was faster than even "fresh" DD when he saved Kyros. He's ALWAYS been faster. 
3) Luffy always gets better during a fight, for all you know his CoA suddenly being equal to DD could be less about Gammma Knife and more that Luffy upgraded. 
3) Luffy won't do much with one G2 punch sure but with several hundred over a long, long time it will be a different story.


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## killfox (Oct 23, 2015)

The Bloody Nine said:


> No, DD SAID it did no damage, we have no idea how much it did but Erkan and others posted scans clearly showing DD hurting from other G2 punches. Like Law said, DD is a master of shit talk and getting into his opponents head; this was clearly more of the same.


When Doflamingo is hurt its shown, that attack was literally laughed off.




The Bloody Nine said:


> I give you the first two but you need to prove the last. When DD wanted to stomp on Law, Luffy stopped him just fine from a position of negative leverage. In that scene Luffy looks physically stronger.


You mean this? 

It was clearly stated that it was a battle of CoC. We have no idea how CoC works so your point is moot as you can only assume. For all we know CoC could make physical strength meaningless and a pure battle of will. 




The Bloody Nine said:


> 1) Luffy was tired and injured in EVERY engagement he had.


Nothing Luffy went through compares to what Doffy went through. Doflamingo was tired too.



The Bloody Nine said:


> 2) Luffy was faster than even "fresh" DD when he saved Kyros. He's ALWAYS been faster.


Flamingo was aiming for Kyros (someone whos level hes aware of) so he'd only need to be as fast as needed to attack Kyros (obviously fast enough for Luffy to dodge), but on the flip side every time Doflamingo attacked Luffy physically he connected. 



The Bloody Nine said:


> 3) Luffy always gets better during a fight, for all you know his CoA suddenly being equal to DD could be less about Gamma Knife and more that Luffy upgraded.


I call bulshit theres* no way* that getting hit with a 

*GAMMA KNIFE*



Immediately after that getting * kicked in your shredded organs* by a G2 attack.

Then getting* Counter shocked in your shredded organs *



*Didn't weaken Doflamingo*. And to say so is crazy ( I myself forgot he got G2 kicked and counter shocked right after he took Gamma knife. Doflamingo is pretty beastly) 





The Bloody Nine said:


> 3) Luffy won't do much with one G2 punch sure but with several hundred over a long, long time it will be a different story.


As i said in another post. With Doffy not having a fruit he will focus more on his haki. Him having higher durability and stronger CoA means Luffy wont be hurting him. He also has the speed, to dodge and react, and keep up with Luffy. 

Since Luffy cant replicate the damage output of G4 he looses.


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## Hachibi (Oct 23, 2015)

Turrin said:


> Yes and I didn't say Luffy bested him, I said Luffy kept pace with him, which he did. It still shows that Luffy speed and combat skills are top notch to keep up with an Admiral in a physical regard.



Who literally:
-Did not move
-Was just blocking/dodging until Luffy angered him



> He also had Doffy outmatched in a purely physical sense, unless you want to say that was due to some unknown or not yet fully explained CoC mechanic, but if so that has it's own implications anyway.



Post-Gamma Knife Doffy. Because not only earlier Doffy broke his guard (before the Bellamy shenanigan), but literally the next chapter after that Doffy said G2 attacks tickle him.



> The bottom line is Base/G2-Luffy was perfectly capable of outmatching DD in a physical confrontation. The problem with DD was his insane defense and durability granted to him by the versatility of his DF,



His durability isn't reliant to his DF. This is the same guy that didn't took much damage for RH without protection.


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## Dellinger (Oct 23, 2015)

Will you guys stop with the tickle crap?


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## Turrin (Oct 23, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Who literally:
> -Did not move
> -Was just blocking/dodging until Luffy angered him


Fujitora was panting, yet he did not move 



> Post-Gamma Knife Doffy. Because not only earlier Doffy broke his guard (before the Bellamy shenanigan),


Gamma Knife did shit to Doffy due to his DF in the grand scheme of things, same deal with Bellamy and Trebol BS w/ Luffy, just stop w/ that nonsense



> but literally the next chapter after that Doffy said G2 attacks tickle him.


Do you not know what a villainous taunt is?



> His durability isn't reliant to his DF. This is the same guy that didn't took much damage for RH without protection.


Because he was most likely stitching together any wounds throughout the match.

And it's not like Luffy isn't a durability monster himself. 

So i'm not saying the match is going to end quickly, but it will eventually end, and the person likely to win is the one who was proven to be the superior fighter.


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## B Rabbit (Oct 23, 2015)

Luffy wasn't heavily weak or injured. Guys come on we have brains, if Bellamy really did that much damage, that this would only further put Luffy behind Doflamingo.


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## Raiden34 (Oct 23, 2015)

B Rabbit said:


> Luffy wasn't heavily weak or injured. Guys come on we have brains, if Bellamy really did that much damage, that this would only further put Luffy behind Doflamingo.



Bellamy did that damages because Luffy let him do. It's like Squardo stabbing Whitebeard, Squardo is no match, that doesn't mean he can't harm him when Whitebeard gave a free shot.


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## Turrin (Oct 23, 2015)

B Rabbit said:


> Luffy wasn't heavily weak or injured. Guys come on we have brains, if Bellamy really did that much damage, that this would only further put Luffy behind Doflamingo.


Apparently people don't have brains because they can't seem to comprehend that both the damage Law did and the damage Trebol/Bellamy did was inconsequential. If it wasn't than Oda would have made fucking point to indicate one performed worse because of said damage, which he specifically did not.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 23, 2015)

White Hawk said:


> Will you guys stop with the tickle crap?





Turrin said:


> *Gamma Knife did shit to Doffy due to his DF in the grand scheme of things*, same deal with Bellamy and Trebol BS w/ Luffy, just stop w/ that nonsense



Except Doflamingo went on record to say that his DF was merely a patch job, and it didn't fully heal the damage from Law's Gamma Knife, so...


Turrin said:


> So i'm not saying the match is going to end quickly, but it will eventually end, and the person likely to win *is the one who was proven to be the superior fighter*.



Even in his injured state, Doflamingo outlasted Gear 4, so yup, between him and Luffy, he's the superior fighter.


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## Hachibi (Oct 23, 2015)

Turrin said:


> Fujitora was panting, yet he did not move



And?
He literally didn't move of his place.

Also, lolpanting



> Gamma Knife did shit to Doffy due to his DF in the grand scheme of things, same deal with Bellamy and Trebol BS w/ Luffy, just stop w/ that nonsense



So your telling me that barely survive an organe destroyer like GK thanks to his DF wouldn't affect him?

Plus comparing this to the Bellamy/Trebol thing is laughable.



> Do you not know what a villainous taunt is?



Yes and?

It's supported by the fact that the EB didn't leave any noticable damage.



> Because he was most likely stitching together any wounds throughout the match.



Prove it.

That was only stated for the GK situation.



> And it's not like Luffy isn't a durability monster himself.



He's actually an endurance monster.


----------



## Dellinger (Oct 23, 2015)

Also how the fuck is Doflamingo supposed to put Luffy down when he couldn't kill him while getting a free shot here with awakening?

get real here.


----------



## Extravlad (Oct 23, 2015)

Whoever wins the battle with last 5 days at least, that's how long it'd take for Luffy to put down Doflamingo with this crappy G2 moves  and that's also how long Doffy would need to get more than 10 hits on Luffy


----------



## Turrin (Oct 23, 2015)

Jigen said:


> Except Doflamingo went on record to say that his DF was merely a patch job, and it didn't fully heal the damage from Law's Gamma Knife, so...


Cool, and DD also went on record saying that Luffy was fucking half dead from the damage he suffered at the hands of Bellamy/Trebol. But in reality Luffy was far from half dead, as illustrated by his continued ability to combat DD and spam a double edge sword technique like G4 and even go beyond that to stack it with G3. Same is true of DD's "patch work", in reality his "patch work" was a fucking nigh equivalent to a hyper potion, as illustrated by his continued combat with Luffy and ability to go on to survive numerous other more devastating blows and keep coming.

Again if Oda wanted the take away to be that anyone was more handicapped than another, he would have indicated such, but he went out of his way to straight up downplay the injuries each received.



> Even in his injured state, Doflamingo outlasted Gear 4, so yup, between him and Luffy, he's the superior fighter.


DD only survived because Luffy didn't use G4/G3, once Luffy did use that he beat DD.

G3/G4-Luffy (w/ time-limit)  > DD > G4-Luffy (w/ time-limit) > G2/G3-Luffy > DD w/o String Fruit is what the manga clearly illustrated.

Luffy > DD overall, albeit by a very narrow margin.


----------



## Dellinger (Oct 23, 2015)

King Kong Gun wasn't G3 with G4,it was just Luffy blowing more air into his muscles.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 23, 2015)

Turrin said:


> Cool, and DD also went on record saying that Luffy was fucking half dead from the damage he suffered at the hands of Bellamy/Trebol. But in reality Luffy was far from half dead, as illustrated by his continued ability to combat DD and spam a double edge sword technique like G4 and even go beyond that to stack it with G3. Same is true of DD's "patch work", in reality his "patch work" was a fucking nigh equivalent to a hyper potion, as illustrated by his continued combat with Luffy and ability to go on to survive numerous other more devastating blows and keep coming.



*Spoiler*: __ 











Luffy had a hard time trying to hit Doflamingo before Gamma Knife. After Law hit Doflamingo with it though, Doflamingo clearly got slower, so while Doflamingo managed to avoid dying by using his strings to patch his organs back together, there's no doubt Gamma Knife weakened him.


Turrin said:


> DD only survived because Luffy didn't use G4/G3, once Luffy did use that he beat DD.


 Was this before or after Luffy had to get carted off by fodder in order to survive?


----------



## Jackalinthebox (Oct 23, 2015)

Saying Gamma Knife didn't affect Doffy is just plain stupid. Having your innards held together by strings would weaken you so drastically, you'd have to be completely bias to argue anything different. Obviously GK didn't get the job done like it was supposed to, but without it; there's no way Luffy would have beaten DD.


----------



## Turrin (Oct 24, 2015)

Jigen said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't see any of the shit you posted. 



> Was this before or after Luffy had to get carted off by fodder in order to survive?


It was after PNJ saved DD from Luffy just finishing him with King Kong Gun in his first G4 usage.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 24, 2015)

Turrin said:


> I can't see any of the shit you posted.


Fine, I'll just post the links:

There's Doflamingo being able to dodge Luffy when he was in G2.


But after Gamma Knife, Base Luffy was able to land attacks on Doflamingo, that's how weakened Doflamingo was from Gamma Knife.


Turrin said:


> *It was after PNJ* saved DD from Luffy just finishing him with King Kong Gun in his first G4 usage.


Luffy ran out of stamina from using G4. That's not plot. And if Gatz hadn't been there, Luffy would be dead right now.


----------



## Turrin (Oct 24, 2015)

Jigen said:


> Fine, I'll just post the links:
> 
> There's Doflamingo being able to dodge Luffy when he was in G2.
> 
> ...


DD was able to dodge Gattling because it was launched from a much longer distance away giving him much more time to react and because he likely made use of the string fruit powers to move quickly through the air. Literally has nothing to do with Gama Knife. 

I mean fuck even after Gama Knife we see DD reacting to many attacks that are faster than Base-Luffy's attacks. The difference being that like Hawk-Gattling they were launched from much further away and he was using the string fruit, rather than part of an ongoing combo in a close range fight, like was the case for Base-Luffy:

Right here, gets punched by Base-Luffy's Combo multiple times, but than reacts to G2-Bazooka:



Or evading Grizzly Knuckle here:



And so on.

Again if Oda wanted readers to know that Gama Knife slowed DD's movements significantly he would have had Luffy or one of the characters mention it. 



> uffy ran out of stamina from using G4. That's not plot. And if Gatz hadn't been there, Luffy would be dead right now.


And what was stopping him from using King-Kong Gun before he ran out of steam?


----------



## gold ace (Oct 24, 2015)

A 75ish % Luffy stalemated a 75%ish Doffy without G4. When he went into G4, it was a wreckage. Nuff said


----------



## RileyD (Oct 24, 2015)

Lol fruitless Doflamingo is a lot more handicapped than G2 only Luffy. No flight, no healing, no awakening (he used this against g2 luffy with Break White), no slashing techniques, no clones, no spider net shield.
Doflamingos without his ridiculous mobility and constant regen would not be nearly as difficult for G2 Luffy to handle.


----------



## killfox (Oct 24, 2015)

RileyD said:


> Lol fruitless Doflamingo is a lot more handicapped than G2 only Luffy. No flight, no healing, no awakening (he used this against g2 luffy with Break White), no slashing techniques, no clones, no spider net shield.
> Doflamingos without his ridiculous mobility and constant regen would not be nearly as difficult for G2 Luffy to handle.



1. He doesnt need flight hes fast as fuck.
2. He never had healing, and Luffy doesnt have Gamma knife.
3. He doesnt need awakening he would focus purely on haki 
4.His punches are enough to hurt Luffy
5. He didnt make use of clones in his 1 vs 1 against Luffy so he doesnt need them
6. His haki is enough defence against G2, he doesnt need his spide net shiled.

I cant see Luffy effortlessly taking sanjis DJ barage and laughing it off without CoA like Doffy did. Doflamingo is basically a stronger, faster, Vergo with stronger haki. 

G2 Luffy vs Vergo would be a decent fight.

Hell even CC took many G2 haki punches from a pissed off Lufy and kept going. Luffy resorted to G3 to finish him. 

Vergo wouldnt get hit with G3 and is far more tanky than CC due to his haki, and Luffy doesnt have Laws hax. So in G2 a fight would take a while with Vergo.

Doflamingo's haki >>> Vergos (Law could break through Vergos haki but not Doffys) Doffy would own Vergo even without his fruit.

Doffy is above G2 Luffy


----------



## RileyD (Oct 24, 2015)

killfox said:


> Heavily weakened? Where was that stated? There is no way Luffy took anything comparable to Doffy. So ill ask you to provide scans of the damage Luffy took and lets compare it to the damage Doffy took to settle it once and for all. Gamma knife alone would have ended Luffys life.


Doflamingo SPECIFICALLY said to Luffy that he was slowing down from the damage he took, why pray tell would Doflamingo bring that up if he himself was suffering from slowdown more than Luffy? Use some logic.

Gamma Knife was overhyped by Law,
1. Did not bring Doflamingo to his back, and he was still gripping Law ready to kill him if not for Luffy's jet stamp.
2.Doflamingo stitched his wounds to make himself combat ready (he admitted it did NOT heal the organs perfectly), when he was knocked unconscious and took even more damage on top of that, he was still fine with no residual effects of Gamma Knife, if it was truly life threatening he would have DIED while unconscious.



killfox said:


> 1. He doesnt need flight hes fast as fuck.
> 2. He never had healing, and Luffy doesnt have Gamma knife.
> 3. He doesnt need awakening he would focus purely on haki
> 4.His punches are enough to hurt Luffy
> ...


1. Luffy is faster, went in between a bloodlusted Doflamingo and Kyros in the time it took for Doflamingo to attack Kyros, this is his speed without string wankery in open top arenas with long distances involved.
2.Bellamy's haki spring attack that was improperly guarded/avoided due to PIS and allowed to be setup in a highly advantageous setting was equal to Gamma Knife in damage, Luffy coughed up blood and fell to his knees, just like Doflamingo did from Gamma Knife. Doflamingo can stitch organs, I'm sure he was stitching and repairing himself considering he went from being able to waddle around slowly after Leo Bazooka to unleashing his top tier attacks
3.His non string haki moves would not be able to do enough damage vs. Luffy. 
4.To hurt him yes, Luffy doesn't need g2 to hurt Doflamingo either, haki is a much bigger upgrade to damage than g2.
5.He did in his fight when Luffy was babysitting Kyros, and he did need them to distract Luffy with Bellamy so he could 2v1 Law.
6.This is PIS to allow for G4, redhawk was damaging him, other g2 moves were damaging him, then he suddenly goes final form and declares Luffy's moves no longer work on him. 
Doflamingo couldn't knock Luffy out even with his fruit, Luffy only went G4 because of the time limit and G4s side effect is what did Luffy in, not Doflamingo. So even if your opinion that g2 couldn't take Doflamingo down were true, it wouldn't invalidate the fact that fruited Doflamingo wasn't doing enough to really take down Luffy either.

You can't see it because he is a villain with access to proper hyping,  Luffy runs away from people like Gladius rather than fodderizing them with a redhawk because lolplot.
Sanji wasn't using haki either, so there is no reason why Luffy wouldn't be able to block ONE ATTACK and dodge another in a similar fashion, as to why Sanji didn't use haki, it's called PIS limitation.

Luffy is faster than Doflamingo, and more mobile than him if you take away his fruit, they are equal in physical strength (Luffy stopping Doflamingo from crushing Law's skull). 

Doflamingo canonically does NOT know rokushiki (otherwise no clouds wouldn't have stopped him) so you might as well say a fruitless Luffy is just a faster stronger Sanji, both statements are true superficially but the techniques available to a fruitless Luffy or Doffy are severely limited due to their lack of training in fruitless combat.


----------



## barreltheif (Oct 24, 2015)

Organs-shredded Doflamingo was still toying with Luffy and laughing at his G2 attacks. An uninjured Doffy can last ages against Luffy. On the other hand, he can't really hurt Luffy much either. Luffy will probably eventually win, but the fight will take forever.


----------



## Extravlad (Oct 24, 2015)

^Yea pretty much this, Doffy can't outbrawl Luffy, he is too slow and not as skilled as him in CqC, there's also a big gap in speed.

But it would take ages for Luffy to put Doffy down with his G2 attacks.


----------



## ShadoLord (Oct 24, 2015)

RileyD said:


> Lol fruitless Doflamingo is a lot more handicapped than G2 only Luffy. No flight, no healing, no awakening (he used this against g2 luffy with Break White), no slashing techniques, no clones, no spider net shield.
> Doflamingos without his ridiculous mobility and constant regen would not be nearly as difficult for G2 Luffy to handle.



Doflamingo don't have any regeneration technique or ability. When will people get this?


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 24, 2015)

killfox said:


> Heavily weakened? Where was that stated?





			
				cnet said:
			
		

> Doflamingo: You already seem... // ...to have been weakened quite a bit...!
> Luffy: Same goes for you!!!


Here's cnet's translation.


----------



## Hachibi (Oct 24, 2015)

RileyD said:


> Lol fruitless Doflamingo is a lot more handicapped than G2 only Luffy. No flight,* no healing*, no awakening (he used this against g2 luffy with Break White), no slashing techniques, no clones, no spider net shield.
> Doflamingos without his ridiculous mobility and constant regen would not be nearly as difficult for G2 Luffy to handle.





Doffy didn't heal himself.


----------



## TheWiggian (Oct 24, 2015)

RileyD said:


> Lol fruitless Doflamingo is a lot more handicapped than G2 only Luffy. No flight, *no healing*, no awakening (he used this against g2 luffy with Break White), no slashing techniques, no clones, no spider net shield.
> Doflamingos without his ridiculous mobility and constant regen would not be nearly as difficult for G2 Luffy to handle.



Clowns still think Doflamingo can heal himself?


----------



## killfox (Oct 24, 2015)

I will respond to posts when i get a little more time but I would like to point out that just because both were injured doesn't mean the injurys were equal.

Luffy would be dead from taking just a gamma knife alone. Not to mention all the other attacks Flamingo took. 

People are trying so hard to make it seem like they were equally damaged and thats not the case at all.


----------



## gold ace (Oct 24, 2015)

killfox said:


> I will respond to posts when i get a little more time but I would like to point out that just because both were injured doesn't mean the injurys were equal.
> 
> Luffy would be dead from taking just a gamma knife alone. Not to mention all the other attacks Flamingo took.
> 
> People are trying so hard to make it seem like they were equally damaged and thats not the case at all.



Gamma knife barely damaged Doffy in the first place.


----------



## Hachibi (Oct 24, 2015)

gold ace said:


> Gamma knife barely damaged Doffy in the first place.



>Say that GK barely damaged Doffy
>We see Doffy vomiting blood like crazy and almost falling


----------



## Jackalinthebox (Oct 24, 2015)

The downplay of GK will never end it seems. I also like how Doffy can apparently heal, guess he stole Marco's DF at some point.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 24, 2015)

Turrin said:


> DD was able to dodge Gattling because it was launched from a much longer distance away giving him much more time to react and because he likely made use of the string fruit powers to move quickly through the air. Literally has nothing to do with Gama Knife.


Stop making up excuses. Luffy had a hard time landing hits on Doflamingo prior to Gamma Knife, that's it. And remember how Doflamingo  just after a free Red Hawk to the gut? Compare that to Doflamingo's performance after Gamma Knife. Doflamingo clearly got weaker because of that attack. End of story.


Turrin said:


> And what was stopping him from using King-Kong Gun before he ran out of steam?


Luffy wanted to weaken Doflamingo before using his finisher, nothing wrong with that. Using your best move at the wrong time can be even worse than not using it at all, Luffy can't spam G4 recklessly, or he'll just run out of stamina faster.


killfox said:


> I will respond to posts when i get a little more time but I would like to point out that *just because both were injured doesn't mean the injurys were equal*.
> 
> Luffy would be dead from taking just a gamma knife alone. Not to mention all the other attacks Flamingo took.
> 
> People are trying so hard to make it seem like they were equally damaged and thats not the case at all.


Just to avoid any confusion, I just wanted to give you a link to a good translation of that chapter, that's all. And yeah, I agree, all that it said was that they both got weakened. Doflamingo's injuries (Red Hawk, Injection Shot, Gamma Knife, etc) were far more severe than Luffy's.


----------



## Zeus. (Oct 24, 2015)

Gear Fourth is what gave Luffy the edge against Doflamingo. Luffy was falling behind, and Gear 2nd/3rd just weren't doing substantial damage in the long run. That's why Luffy finally had to resort to his own trump card this far into the timeskip. His old moves weren't enough. This is basically a repeat of Luffy vs Lucci in EL.


----------



## gold ace (Oct 24, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> >Say that GK barely damaged Doffy
> >We see Doffy vomiting blood like crazy and almost falling



Ye, that was the initial effect. After that Doffy quickly was continuously repairing his organs and the Gamma Knife turned out to be basically useless.


----------



## Hachibi (Oct 24, 2015)

gold ace said:


> Ye, that was the initial effect. After that *Doffy quickly was continuously repairing his organs* and the Gamma Knife turned out to be basically useless.





For the last fucking time DD didn't heal himself.

Or is now stitching wound counted as healing?


----------



## Turrin (Oct 24, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> For the last fucking time DD didn't heal himself.
> 
> Or is now stitching wound counted as healing?



It counts however Oda wants it to count, and Oda obviously wanted it to act as fucking hyper potion because he never once brings up DD being weakened by Gama Knife or shows any negative effects from it.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 24, 2015)

Turrin said:


> It counts however Oda wants it to count, and Oda obviously wanted it to act as fucking hyper potion *because he never once brings up DD being weakened by Gama Knife or shows any negative effects from it*.





What a load of bullshit.
Also, you can reply to my last post anytime you like.


----------



## Hachibi (Oct 24, 2015)

Turrin said:


> It counts however Oda wants it to count, and Oda obviously wanted it to act as fucking hyper potion because he never once brings up DD being weakened by Gama Knife or shows any negative effects from it.



This is literally common sense that he's weakened, no need for Oda to bring it up in our face all the time.

Plus there's the fact that before GK he could block/dodge attack form G2/G3 but after Base Luffy could tag him.


----------



## gold ace (Oct 24, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> For the last fucking time DD didn't heal himself.
> 
> Or is now stitching wound counted as healing?



And when the fuck did I ever say he was healing himself?

Unless you can't read, I clearly used the words continuously repairing?

Want me to use the words stitching a wound? Here you go: Doffy was stitching his organs and the Gamma Knife turned out to be basically useless.

Are you now happy that I used your words even though my words were perfectly correct and make 0 difference whatsoever?


----------



## Hachibi (Oct 24, 2015)

gold ace said:


> And when the fuck did I ever say he was healing himself?
> 
> Unless you can't read, I clearly used the words continuously repairing?
> 
> ...



So you're telling me that Doffy went form:
-Not taking much damage form a RH
-Blocking a Jet Gatling with CoA
-Blocking a Eg with Spider's Web
-Dodging HG

To being tagged by Base Luffy's fists just like that?

GK being useless is a retarded argument since it obviously weakened Doffy.


----------



## gold ace (Oct 24, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> So you're telling me that Doffy went form:
> -Not taking much damage form a RH
> -Blocking a Jet Gatling with CoA
> -Blocking a Eg with Spider's Web
> ...



1st of all, it was base Luffy, but its not like him going G2 when he was that close to Doffy wouldve made a difference.

2nd of all, and to put it quite frankly, yes.


----------



## giantbiceps (Oct 25, 2015)

gold ace said:


> Ye, that was the initial effect. After that Doffy quickly was continuously repairing his organs and the Gamma Knife turned out to be basically useless.



You need to  asap.


----------



## gold ace (Oct 25, 2015)

giantbiceps said:


> You need to  asap.



Since you were unable to come up with a counter arguement, and replied to me with a comment that shows your inability to do so, I'll assume that you agree with me .


----------



## Marik Swift (Oct 25, 2015)

Can't believe some people still hold onto this delusional, ridiculous idea that Doffy stitching up his insides after Gamma Knife makes everything peachy. 



Much less that Luffy getting a beating from Bellamy & Trebol put him remotely close to Doffy in terms of condition.



The funny thing is most of people who say it argument is that Doffy himself said he was okay. By that logic Zoro was okay back in Thriller Back. ​


----------



## gold ace (Oct 25, 2015)

Marik Swift said:


> Can't believe some people still hold onto this delusional, ridiculous idea that Doffy stitching up his insides after Gamma Knife makes everything peachy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't think you understand.

The point of Gamma Knife is to destroy the organs.
Doffys stitching completely negated that, making Gamma Knife useless.

I'll assume now that if you know english, you understand.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 25, 2015)

Marik Swift said:


> Can't believe some people still hold onto this delusional, ridiculous idea that Doffy stitching up his insides after Gamma Knife makes everything peachy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Hachibi (Oct 25, 2015)

gold ace said:


> I don't think you understand.
> 
> The point of Gamma Knife is to destroy the organs.
> Doffys stitching completely negated that, making Gamma Knife useless.
> ...



It didn't.

Luffy himself say that it weakened him literally two chapter after that.

Also, just because it didn't destroy every organs in DD's body doesn't mean Dofla negated it.

That was the whole point of the stitching: to not make his injury any worse.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Oct 25, 2015)

Marik Swift said:


> Can't believe some people still hold onto this delusional, ridiculous idea that Doffy stitching up his insides after Gamma Knife makes everything peachy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 /thread


----------



## Kaiser (Oct 25, 2015)

Doflamingo wasn't weakened by gamma knife 


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## gold ace (Oct 25, 2015)

Kaiser said:


> Doflamingo wasn't weakened by gamma knife
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



Ya cuz what Luffy says totally makes a difference 

No one has still been able to counter the fact that Gamma Knife purpose is to destroy the organs, and that was negated by Doffys continual stitching.


----------



## Hachibi (Oct 25, 2015)

I don't think you know what stitching a wound means then


----------



## Marik Swift (Oct 25, 2015)

By Gold Ace's logic a prosthetic leg is as good as the original. 



By Gold Ace's logic putting a bandaid over a cut makes it heal immediately and perfectly okay. 


You are so lucky I don't use my ignore list since I like to hear everyone out (well that and I get a laugh out of it).​


----------



## gold ace (Oct 25, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> I don't think you know what stitching a wound means then


verb (used with object)
9.
to work upon, join, mend, or fasten with or as if with stitches; sew (often followed by together):
to stitch together flour sacks to make curtains; a plan that was barely stitched together.

I know what stitch means.


----------



## gold ace (Oct 25, 2015)

Marik Swift said:


> By Gold Ace's logic a prosthetic leg is as good as the original.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's not my logic at all, idk where you got that from


----------



## Hachibi (Oct 25, 2015)

gold ace said:


> verb (used with object)
> 9.
> to work upon, join, mend, or fasten with or as if with stitches; sew (often followed by together):
> to stitch together flour sacks to make curtains; a plan that was barely stitched together.
> ...



That's not what I meant.

What I meant is that you think that stitching a wound make it (or the pain caused by hit) disappear instantly. It doesn't work like that.

Just like when you have bandage on your wound(s), stitching your wound(s) only prevent them to for becoming (much) worse but doesn't remove either the pain nor the wound itself.

TL;DR: GK still affected Doffy despite his string somewhat saving him.


----------



## gold ace (Oct 25, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> That's not what I meant.
> 
> What I meant is that you think that stitching a wound make it (or the pain caused by hit) disappear instantly. It doesn't work like that.
> 
> ...



I'm not talking about that though...

I'm talking about the fact that the continuous stitching stopped the destruction of the organs, which is the main goal of Gamma Knife. This is a true fact...


----------



## Hachibi (Oct 25, 2015)

gold ace said:


> I'm not talking about that though...
> 
> I'm talking about the fact that the continuous stitching stopped the destruction of the organs, which is the main goal of Gamma Knife. This is a true fact...



And?

Just because GK didn't manage to fully destroy his organs doesn't mean it didn't do shit to him.

It still managed to weaken him stated by Luffy himself.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 25, 2015)

Doflamingo: took a free Red Hawk to the gut, then Injection Shot, and finally got his insides fried by Law's most powerful attack yet + Countershock.
Luffy: got hurt by fucking Bellamy.

Gee, I wonder who was the more injured of the two?


----------



## gold ace (Oct 25, 2015)

Jigen said:


> Doflamingo: took a free Red Hawk to the gut, then Injection Shot, and finally got his insides fried by Law's most powerful attack yet + Countershock.
> Luffy: got hurt by fucking Bellamy.
> 
> Gee, I wonder who was the more injured of the two?



You forgot the fact that luffy wasted Haki + stamina in the Colloseum and on his way to Doffy.

After you look at it like that, its pretty even


----------



## gold ace (Oct 25, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> And?
> 
> Just because GK didn't manage to fully destroy his organs doesn't mean it didn't do shit to him.
> 
> It still managed to weaken him stated by Luffy himself.



Ofc it still weakened him, just not nearly as much as you all make it out to be. Instead of destroying his organs, it turned out to be a stab to the stoumach


----------



## Hachibi (Oct 25, 2015)

gold ace said:


> Ofc it still weakened him, just not nearly as much as you all make it out to be. Instead of destroying his organs, it turned out to be a stab to the stoumach



Uh No?

Injection Shot was basically that and it still didn't force him to do first aid nor did it get a comment form Luffy latter on.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 25, 2015)

gold ace said:


> You forgot the fact that luffy wasted Haki + stamina in the Colloseum and on his way to Doffy.


And Doflamingo had to cut the meteor Issho brought down, hunted Law, chased after Law again when he escaped, fought Sanji, fought Law on the bridge, created multiple String Clones, and brought up Bird Cage to control the country before he fought Law + Luffy together and got his insides fried. But lets just forget about all that.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Oct 25, 2015)

Jigen said:


> And Doflamingo had to cut the meteor Issho brought down, hunted Law, chased after Law again when he escaped, fought Sanji, fought Law on the bridge, created multiple String Clones, and brought up Bird Cage to control the country before he fought Law + Luffy together and got his insides fried. But lets just forget about all that.



not to mention he spent the day before tarzan-ing to PH and back across the ocean


----------



## gold ace (Oct 25, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Uh No?
> 
> Injection Shot was basically that and it still didn't force him to do first aid nor did it get a comment form Luffy latter on.



Injection shot didn't force him to use first aid because it wasn't gonna destroy his organs....


----------



## gold ace (Oct 25, 2015)

Jigen said:


> And Doflamingo had to cut the meteor Issho brought down, hunted Law, chased after Law again when he escaped, fought Sanji, fought Law on the bridge, created multiple String Clones, and brought up Bird Cage to control the country before he fought Law + Luffy together and got his insides fried. But lets just forget about all that.



And all of the resulted in Doffy wasting some stamina. It's not like he was taking hits or using Haki all that time lol


----------



## Quuon (Oct 25, 2015)

Gold you're fighting a losing battle man, it was pretty clear that Doflamingo was hurt from Gamma Knife. Now the effect that damage had on his overall combat performance is definitely up for debate.


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## RileyD (Oct 25, 2015)

Why did Doflamingo specifically say Luffy got slower and that he was being affected by damage and fatigue from Bellamy if he himself was suffering greater slowdown? 
*Why?*

You can't just ignore this on panel attempt by Oda to emphasize the damage Luffy took as being equal to at the least if not greater than Doflamingo's handicap. He took Bellamy's attack which required infinitely more setup than Law's attack and was facilitated by the close wall environment in that underground chamber. Luffy tanked the hits to minimize damage to Bellamy. He didn't have the benefit of being able to suture his organs and continue fighting with reduced handicap.

A fucking bite from Hody caused Luffy to bleed out and almost die of bloodloss, it's PIS to limit Luffy because he isn't making large jumps in strength but is still going to have to take on Yonkous in the arc after Zou.

Had G4, didn't use it till now.
Had King Kong, didn't use it till plot deemed it acceptable.
Has plenty of moves from Rayleigh he is yet to unveil.
Runs from Gladius.
Loses to Monet.
All PIS to prevent Luffy fucking up characters and reducing drama in the arc.


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## Hachibi (Oct 25, 2015)

You do realise that if Luffy took equal damage than DD from Bellamy, that competely shit on him right?


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## gold ace (Oct 25, 2015)

Quuon said:


> Gold you're fighting a losing battle man, it was pretty clear that Doflamingo was hurt from Gamma Knife. Now the effect that damage had on his overall combat performance is definitely up for debate.



How am I fighting a losing battle if there's no battle to lose when I'm Argueing using facts?

-Gamma knifes purpose is to destroy organs - fact
-Doffys stitching negated the destruction of his organs - fact 

I'm not debating that Doffy wasn't hurt from gk, I'm debating the effect like you said.


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## Quuon (Oct 25, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> You do realise that if Luffy took equal damage than DD from Bellamy, that competely shit on him right?



How so? Bellamy's all or nothing attack was not some weak fodder technique, and Luffy just sat there and took the full brunt of it. You also have to factor in that Doffy is way more durable than Luffy and has better damage soak in general.


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## Quuon (Oct 25, 2015)

gold ace said:


> How am I fighting a losing battle if there's no battle to lose when I'm Argueing using facts?
> 
> -Gamma knifes purpose is to destroy organs - fact
> -Doffys stitching negated the destruction of his organs - fact
> ...



My bad.


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## Hachibi (Oct 25, 2015)

Quuon said:


> How so? Bellamy's all or nothing attack was not some weak fodder technique, and Luffy just sat there and took the full brunt of it. You also have to factor in that Doffy is way more durable than Luffy and has better damage soak in general.



Yeah, but Luffy's endurance should be up there with Doffy's if we're scaling from PTS. Plus IIRC did defend


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