# Team 8 vs Team 10



## Punished Kiba (Jul 5, 2015)

Note: They're in their Adult (the Last) versions

Note 2: Extra Feats from the Novels, Kiba and Choji are shown destroying meteorites during the events of the Last.

Location: War Arc Battleground
Distance: 15 metres
Mindset: Bloodlust
Knowledge: None for Team 10, None for Team 8
Restrictions: None


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## Bonly (Jul 6, 2015)

Ino-Shika-Cho is likely to win more times then not. Ino's sniping speed is gonna catch any of them if they are distracted/wide open and with no knowledge they gonna be in trouble as she can take out any one member. Shino really the only threat here since his bugs are a big problem so the question is which is more likely to happen, Shino soloing or Ino-Shika-Cho taking him out before they all die. I'd say the latter so yeah


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## Punished Kiba (Jul 6, 2015)

With no knowledge,  it's likely that Ino could catch Kiba or Hinata (if they're heavily distracted by shikamaru and Choji). Or It's likely that Shikamaru could catch Kiba and Hinata (if they're distracted by Choji and Ino) but then there's shino who would be analysing their abilities and tactics as they're dealing with Kiba and Hinata. Even if Shikamaru is weary of Shino being the analyst of Team 8. What does Shikamaru or any one on Team 10 have to deal with Shino's bugs ? The chance of Ino catching with shintenshin no jutsu  Shino instead of Kiba/Hinata is extremely low

Also, if Choji expands his size during the fight, he becomes bigger target for Shino to Kill him using his Parasitic Insect technique (All it takes is a touch on his body) OR Kiba to bissect him using Tail chasing Fang.

Another point if the fight starts with each of the team 8 members going offensive against each team 10 member..........It's gonna split the ino-shika-cho formation. Hinata would be using her Air palm jutsu from long range against ino,  ino would be unable to do her jutsu if she's evading hinata. Kiba and Akamaru takes on Choji and with Kiba having superior speed,  would most likely Kill him. Then Lastly Shino and Shikamaru while both great analysts, Shikamaru seems not to have the arsenal to deal with the Bugs.

I think Team 8 would most likely win this fight.
Tbh, Ino-shika-cho tactics are usually super effective when up against a single powerful opponent but when they're up against three and a dog, they're gonna be in trouble since Choji is the only offensive member on the team.


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## Icegaze (Jul 6, 2015)

ino+shika+chou easily take this
they are the better team combo 

chouji expands, shikamaru catches all of them in shadows. ino control shino mind and hinata mind

shino bug drains kiba and kiba goes down

ino keeps their minds in place till chouji can crush them with his palm 

the end


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## Trojan (Jul 6, 2015)

Team 10 most likely.

Kishi did not show that he cares about T8 whatsoever.


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## Punished Kiba (Jul 6, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Team 10 most likely.
> 
> Kishi did not show that he cares about T8 whatsoever.



That's a poor argument. We already know Kishi gave more attention to Team 10 but this thread is about discussing the skills each team have if they were to go into battle with one another.



Icegaze said:


> ino+shika+chou easily take this
> they are the better team combo
> 
> chouji expands, shikamaru catches all of them in shadows. ino control shino mind and hinata mind
> ...



If only if it was that simple 

Shino's bugs drains Kiba. huh ? Is that a typing mistake ?

But still, when choji expands, if Shino touches him, he's done.

No one on Team 10 have shown to be able to use clones (I just realised). Shino has insect clones that he always uses when he's analysing a situation so Shikamaru shadow's and Ino's mind transfer will be very unlikely to hold him. Kiba also has a shadow clone which may cause problems for ino-shika-cho also.

If Team 10 tries to hide so that Shikamaru can formulate a plan, they'll get detected easily since (you know) team 8 are tracking specialists.

If you think Team 10 can win, at least explain how they would deal with Shino's bugs.


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## Icegaze (Jul 6, 2015)

KingForever7 said:


> That's a poor argument. We already know Kishi gave more attention to Team 10 but this thread is about discussing the skills each team have if they were to go into battle with one another.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



fandom didnt allow you to read my post
ino controls shino into making his bugs drain kiba

and yes it would be that simple. insect clones are fun and all but none can move quicker than chouji can expand which is all shikamaru needs to catch all their shadows and from there its GG

not to be rude or anything but considering kiba personality and team 8 general lack of team work they are far more likely to go down. kiba is going to scream and talk rubbish then be brushed aside.

hinata is going to dream of naruto 

while shino the coolest of all with no support gets straight slapped around

note: chouji expansion caught asuma off guard, asuma who is>>>>>>>>>>>than anyone in team 8. chouji with ino+shika is certainly a beast. his only threat is shino who is properly countered by shikamaru.


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## Punished Kiba (Jul 6, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> fandom didnt allow you to read my post
> ino controls shino into making his bugs drain kiba
> 
> and yes it would be that simple. insect clones are fun and all but none can move quicker than chouji can expand which is all shikamaru needs to catch all their shadows and from there its GG
> ...



Shikamaru and Ino distracted Asuma long enough to give Choji an opening to catch Asuma off-guard.  Plus that was a 3 on 1 fight.

Choji isn't fast. He's definitely the strongest there but he's definitely not very fast.

Choji isn't blitzing Kiba and Akamaru (and probably not Shino either)

lol, You factored in personal traits of team 8 but decided not to factor in personal traits of Team 10 (like how Choji was acting like a p*ssy cos he didn't want to hurt his sensei)

But those personal stuff doesn't matter because in my OP I specifically said that the mindset is bloodlust. So Hinata wouldn't be thinking about Nardo, she would be thinking about Killing.

Ino controls Shino ?....even you should know that's highly unlikely  . Shino is a guy that's highly observant of his surroundings. He would notice that Ino would be making her stance before. 

I can think of one way Shino can get controlled by Ino and thats if he puts all his attention to Shikamaru and then Ino surprises him.....but then again Ino and Shikamaru are  then vulnerable Kiba and Hinata.


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## Icegaze (Jul 6, 2015)

> KingForever7 said:
> 
> 
> > Shikamaru and Ino distracted Asuma long enough to give Choji an opening to catch Asuma off-guard.  Plus that was a 3 on 1 fight.
> ...


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## Punished Kiba (Jul 6, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> true however asuma distracted or not is still alot quicker than any of them
> 
> lets not forget 1 on 1 shikamaru caught hidan



I doubt that Asuma would be quicker than at least Kiba at this point but even if he is, it took the three members of team 10 to catch him off guard.

About Shikamaru and Hidan 1 on 1:
- They've already encountered each other once + Shikamaru had been *planning his strategies since*. In the first encounter, Shikamaru needed three distractions to initially hold him
- Hidan is reckless (like Kiba) and wasn't prepared for Shikamaru's team ambush (that *shikamaru planned*)
- Hidan doesn't have clones (unlike shino) and so didn't have anything else in his arsenal to trick Shikamaru in the *second* encounter
.

Shikamaru was successful by Planning for the second ambush. Which made his 1 on 1 with Hidan much easier.



Icegaze said:


> never said he is fast. he can however cover distances easily by increasing his size



Which also makes him a much bigger target for Shino's Parasitic Bugs and Kiba's Tail chasing Fang (both of which) could quite possibly Kill him




Icegaze said:


> war arc chouji found his resolve i assume this is after that. sorry when did kiba change his ways?



Kiba's recklessness is actually a positive in this scenario as it allows shino to assess and evaluate the opponents much quicker. Plus, If Kiba instantly charged Fang over fang towards them, They're gonna have to evade really quickly or Choji would have to use expansion asap to block Kiba, leaving the others wide open to use their techniques on Kiba.



Icegaze said:


> i apologize then. bloodlust wouldnt change anything for team 8
> 
> shikamaru caught hidan 1 on 1. hidan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all of team 8 in everything physical



Why wouldn't Bloodlust change anything for Team 8 ? Hinata would be a lot less hesitant in combat.  

Again with the Shikamaru vs Hidan stuff. As I said above . Same applies ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Shikamaru would've died if he fought Hidan 1 on 1 on their *first* encounter.
 From what I've seen, Hidan wouldn't be able to get close to shino to use his ritual, his bugs can drain his chakra till he can't move then use his parasitic insect to dismember him. Unless Hidan had a space-time jutsu like Tobi or clones, he's doomed.



Icegaze said:


> ino coudl control obito. so controllign shino would be a walk in the park.



Oh God, This argument again  *sigh*

1) Hinata helped extend Ino's mind transfer jutsu over a longer distance to reach Obito without being spotted.

2) Obito was obviously heavily occupied with the Juubi and Naruto, Kakashi, Killer Bee and Gai to detect the alliance approaching.

3) Yeah, controlling Obito for 2 secs means it would be so easy to control anyone else when they're aware of your presence on the battlefield *sarcasm* 




Icegaze said:


> you mean the shikamaru that caught hidan 1 on 1. that guy, who could catch hidan shadow despite hidan knowledge
> 
> yh that shikamaru casually catches their shadows especially when chouji massive size and shadow is there to make the job easier



You and you're shikamaru vs Hidan 1 on 1 

I've already talked enough about it above  ^^^^^^^^


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## Ailuro (Jul 6, 2015)

Bonly said:


> Ino-Shika-Cho is likely to win more times then not. Ino's sniping speed is gonna catch any of them if they are distracted/wide open



That may be so, but Kiba and Shino have been known to quickly go on the attack.



> and with no knowledge they gonna be in trouble as she can take out any one member.


Ino would have this problem as well. With no knowledge she'd have to choose quickly who to snipe. As which point Kiba would have already most likely gone Fang over Fang and Shino's bugs would be released.




KingForever7 said:


> With no knowledge,  it's likely that Ino could catch Kiba or Hinata (if they're heavily distracted by shikamaru and Choji). Or It's likely that Shikamaru could catch Kiba and Hinata (if they're distracted by Choji and Ino)


Kiba would be using Fang Over Fang most likely, regardless of who his distracted by. How is Ino or Shikamaru going to catch him? Hinata would likely start off with Air Palm and blow Ino/Shikamaru back, forcing them to off heir feet.



> but then there's shino who would be analysing their abilities and tactics as they're dealing with Kiba and Hinata. Even if Shikamaru is weary of Shino being the analyst of Team 8. What does Shikamaru or any one on Team 10 have to deal with Shino's bugs ?


To add, most likely Shikamaru may not figure Shino is analysing until it's too late. Shino tends to keep quiet about it and when he catches his opponent, only then does he explain how.





Icegaze said:


> ino+shika+chou easily take this
> they are the better team combo


Why is "better team" always the biggest argument of Ino-Shika-Cho? Consider this: team 8, while not as good at teamwork as Team 10, still have good team work. Importantly, they can work together.



> chouji expands, shikamaru catches all of them in shadows. ino control shino mind and hinata mind



Or Kiba and Akamaru combine for Two/Three-Head Wolf mode. Shikamaru finds out that he can catch Shino but not his bugs and ends up swarmed. With no knowledge, Ino wouldn't know if it be best to control Hinata and Shino or Kiba.



> shino bug drains kiba and kiba goes down


Ino is controlling Shino, not his bugs. Wouldn't the insects be wondering why their host is asking to attack a team mate?



> ino keeps their minds in place till chouji can crush them with his palm


If she could catch them in the first place. Sniper or not, all three members f Team 8 would jump to the defence/attack. Kiba is likely to go Fang Over Fang, Hinata will start off with Air Palm and Shino would swarm the entire field with his insects.



Icegaze said:


> and yes it would be that simple. insect clones are fun and all but none can move quicker than chouji can expand which is all shikamaru needs to catch all their shadows and from there its GG



How is Choji's expanding speed an issue for Shino's giant pest problem? Shino could still plant a bug in Choji's skin, he'd be confused about it, then seconds later he's be in pain as he's eaten alive. Even if he attacks and ends one T8, he's still gone.

The upside to Shino being on T8 is that Shikamaru can't hold the insects, even if he holds Shino. So, as mentioned before, he gets swarmed. Also if Kiba went Fang Over Fang, he's too fast for the shadows to catch. Hinata could even blow Shikamaru back.



> not to be rude or anything but considering kiba personality and team 8 general lack of team work they are far more likely to go down. kiba is going to scream and talk rubbish then be brushed aside.



You clearly don't know Kiba. Sure Kiba is brash, but he's been known to force himself calm in a serious situation. He also has Shino, Mr Serious Caution, with him. Plus, everyone in both teams is bloodlusted in this fight. So Kiba isn't going to trash talk, he's gonna pop a pill to increase his chakra and speed, then either go Fang Over Fang or Wolf mode. So really, Kiba's personality is gonna wreck the field.

By the way, Team 8 get along fine. There's a difference between working as a team and getting along as a team. Even no team work,they're still strong individually. Also, they do have team work. Getting a scroll from the Forest of Death.



> hinata is going to dream of naruto


That's a bad thing for Team 10. Hinata dreams of Naruto, gets strength and determination from him and ends up kicking Ino-Shika-Cho arse. =)



> while shino the coolest of all with no support gets straight slapped around



Why are you here if you're gonna be biased and ridiculous? Shino's support is his insects, which no member of Team 10 has a counter for. Especially in  a fight with no knowledge. Shino is also good at working out an opponent's weakness in short time and using it against them.

By the way who looks after Ino when she's using mind control? When Shikamaru and Choi are likely busy? Who protects Ino from Hinata, or Kiba, or Akamaru or insects?



> note: chouji expansion caught asuma off guard, asuma who is>>>>>>>>>>>than anyone in team 8. chouji with ino+shika is certainly a beast. his only threat is shino who is properly countered by shikamaru.



It's a no knowledge fight. Everyone is going to be caught off guard.

Shikamaru can't counter Shino. Shino is his worse match up. Shino can still attack while caught by shadows. Shikamaru is immobile if caught by bugs.



KingForever7 said:


> > I can think of one way Shino can get controlled by Ino and thats if he puts all his attention to Shikamaru and then Ino surprises him.....but then again Ino and Shikamaru are  then vulnerable Kiba and Hinata.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bonly (Jul 6, 2015)

Ailuro said:


> That may be so, but Kiba and Shino have been known to quickly go on the attack.



And? They can do that but that doesn't change that if they are left open/distracted they can get sniped. 



> Ino would have this problem as well. With no knowledge she'd have to choose quickly who to snipe. As which point Kiba would have already most likely gone Fang over Fang and Shino's bugs would be released.



I'm not sure how likely Kiba is to do FoF right off the bat since I don't recall him doing that right off the bat in the few fights we saw with him but if he did try using that towards Ino-Shika-Cho, he will just likely end up with him getting caught in Shika shadows and be screwed. Shino can release his bugs but if he gets caught then they pretty much becomes useless.


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## Naiad (Jul 6, 2015)

Kiba isnt as fast Inos Shintenshin is, Inos shintenshin covered few miles in an instant,noone of them is dodging it at that little range.
I think Ino shouldnt have any Problems to hold Shino when she possesses him! what are is bug doing meanwhile? nothing! they act under shinos command,if Shino is possessed he is commanding nothing!

all in all team 10 has a much bigger skill tool! Shikamaru can use CHoujis giant shadow to controll everyone of them, allowing chouji to smash them all,while ino is watching,ready to shintenshin the most dangerous one,if someone manages to escape the jutsu! OR Ino simply possesses two persons of team 8 forcing the bodys to kill the remaining one or give Shikamaru/Chouj new openings.

honestly i dont see shino being that big thread! Ino is a sensor and should be able to figure out the right one is he is using bugclones! Shino is too stationary and not fast enough to really avoid shintenshin. btw they have no prep time,so when the battle starts, shino has not summoned any clone. 

Kibas moves are too straight forward! he would simply rush into shintenshin,or shikamarus shadows,and instantly becoming useless.
and hinata is the smallest thread of their team anyway


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## Punished Kiba (Jul 6, 2015)

@Ailuro.......It's so true that people here neglect/undermine Team 8 skills just cos they didn't get alot of screentime. 



Bonly said:


> And? They can do that but that doesn't change that if they are left open/distracted they can get sniped.



Distracted by what exactly (Shikamaru and Choji ? ), don't forget that Hinata is there. So if Ino is trying to catch Kiba and Shino off-guard, then Hinata will catch her off-guard.




Bonly said:


> I'm not sure how likely Kiba is to do FoF right off the bat since I don't recall him doing that right off the bat in the few fights we saw with him but if he did try using that towards Ino-Shika-Cho, he will just likely end up with him getting caught in Shika shadows and be screwed. Shino can release his bugs but if he gets caught then they pretty much becomes useless.



Fang over fang is a move that requires no prep and is something that Kiba and Akamaru naturally do when they're are charging towards an enemy. At the speed Kiba travels using Fang over Fang it would be very difficult for Shikamaru to catch him (plus Kiba doesn't always travel in straight lines when using the move either if you remember back from the Naruto vs Kiba fight).

OMG, I just realised a simple solution....Shino Attacks all 3 members with his mass of insects. Ino-shika -cho have no choice but to try and back away from the bugs (because none of them on the team have anything in their arsenal to deal with bugs). The bugs distract them from being able to do their techniques. Then, the other Team 8 members could pick and choose who they want to take out first.



Naiad said:


> Kiba isnt as fast Inos Shintenshin is, Inos shintenshin covered few miles in an instant,noone of them is dodging it at that little range.
> I think Ino shouldnt have any Problems to hold Shino when she possesses him! what are is bug doing meanwhile? nothing! they act under shinos command,if Shino is possessed he is commanding nothing
> 
> all in all team 10 has a much bigger skill tool! Shikamaru can use CHoujis giant shadow to controll everyone of them, allowing chouji to smash them all,while ino is watching,ready to shintenshin the most dangerous one,if someone manages to escape the jutsu! OR Ino simply possesses two persons of team 8 forcing the bodys to kill the remaining one or give Shikamaru/Chouj new openings.
> ...



Kiba speedblitzes ino before she would have the time to make her stance for shintenshin no jutsu. Plus, the only time we've seen Ino directly use that move on someone who's actually focused on her is Part 1 Sakura. In shippuden, Ino has been successful with that move through help/distractions only.

Ino's jutsu's are only effective when her teammates are successfully distracting the opponents....but if the opponents have superior speed, distracting becomes a difficult task.
Plus, Ino focusing her jutsu on one opponent makes her vulnerable to the other two opponents (Her teammates can't distract and protect her at the same time).

Remember, What Shikamaru said to Ino during the Hidan and Kakazu arc, If she uses her jutsu and she misses, she won't be able to return to her body after several minutes. She instantly becomes a burden on Team 10 if e.g. she misses Kiba or shino


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## Ailuro (Jul 7, 2015)

Bonly said:


> And? They can do that but that doesn't change that if they are left open/distracted they can get sniped.



Again, it is likely that Kiba would be on he attack and Shino with his insects at the ready. Whether it's Fang Passing Fang, Four-Legged or Human-Beast combo, Kiba is likely to go into attack.




> I'm not sure how likely Kiba is to do FoF right off the bat since I don't recall him doing that right off the bat in the few fights we saw with him but if he did try using that towards Ino-Shika-Cho, he will just likely end up with him getting caught in Shika shadows and be screwed. Shino can release his bugs but if he gets caught then they pretty much becomes useless.



It doesn't have to be Fang Passing Fang. After trash talking Naruto, he attacked with Four-Legged. This is bloodlusted Kiba. He'd be more on the attack than normal Kiba. So he won't be trash talking. A surprise attack is likely to hit one of Team 10. I doubt Shikamaru's shadows is catching him.

There's also Akamaru.

I already mentioned this, but Shino can still control his bugs even if caught by the shadow.




Naiad said:


> Kiba isnt as fast Inos Shintenshin is, Inos shintenshin covered few miles in an instant,noone of them is dodging it at that little range.



Wasn't her target distracted/hardly moving?

Doesn't matter, if Kiba decides to start off with Fang Passing Fang in a combo attack with Akamaru. No matter how fast Ino's Shintenshin is she can't snipe a moving target.



> I think Ino shouldnt have any Problems to hold Shino when she possesses him! what are is bug doing meanwhile? nothing! they act under shinos command,if Shino is possessed he is commanding nothing!



What are the bugs doing? They'd be released already with a command. What is Ino going to do if Shino decides to Bug Globe her? She'd be swarmed in an instant. Hundreds of insects would block her view from him. What happens if she ends up inside the body of a bug or two?

Regardless of how fast she is, she has to aim carefully.



> all in all team 10 has a much bigger skill tool! Shikamaru can use CHoujis giant shadow to controll everyone of them, allowing chouji to smash them all,while ino is watching,ready to shintenshin the most dangerous one,if someone manages to escape the jutsu! OR Ino simply possesses two persons of team 8 forcing the bodys to kill the remaining one or give Shikamaru/Chouj new openings.



Meanwile Shino's insects have already been released into the field. Shikamaru's shadow can't stop them, even if he catches Shino, as they feast on easy giant prey. Ino realises Shino is the dangerous one, but it's too late as Hinata's Lion Fists drains her chakra network because Ino was too busy standing around. Or she just gets bug swarmed.

Ino processing two people still leaves her open to attack. She has two others (Kiba, Shino, Hinata or Akamaru) to deal with who can attack her defenseless body.



> honestly i dont see shino being that big thread! Ino is a sensor and should be able to figure out the right one is he is using bugclones! Shino is too stationary and not fast enough to really avoid shintenshin. btw they have no prep time,so when the battle starts, shino has not summoned any clone.



Shino's bugs can block sensors. Which is why Shino is a threat. They only time Shino was stationary was versus Zaku. He moved around versus Kankuro and the in the war. Shino doesn't need to move to avoid Shintenshin, if he's shielded by his bugs, Ino has no chance of catching him.

No prep time is needed for Shino to start off with his Bug Globe. And he can possibly catch all three. 



> Kibas moves are too straight forward! he would simply rush into shintenshin,or shikamarus shadows,and instantly becoming useless.
> and hinata is the smallest thread of their team anyway



Shino's bugs attack Ino -her actual body- or Hinata jumps in to drain her chakra. Freeing Kiba as Ino becomes too weak and useless.


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## Bonly (Jul 7, 2015)

KingForever7 said:


> Distracted by what exactly (Shikamaru and Choji ? ),



Yeah by them and the battle overall. Look at what happened to Kinkaku, he was focused on attacking Shika and got caught by Ino and ended up being sealed. 



> don't forget that Hinata is there. So if Ino is trying to catch Kiba and Shino off-guard, then Hinata will catch her off-guard.



Choji and Shika can protect Ino's body so Hinata can't really do much of anything.



> Fang over fang is a move that requires no prep and is something that Kiba and Akamaru naturally do when they're are charging towards an enemy.



That's neat and all but that doesn't refresh my memory on when they actually did it off the bat.



> At the speed Kiba travels using Fang over Fang it would be very difficult for Shikamaru to catch him (plus Kiba doesn't always travel in straight lines when using the move either if you remember back from the Naruto vs Kiba fight).



Kiba's speed wasn't be shown to be anything impressive since part one and even back then Naruto managed to react to a good deal of his attacks, Shika's not gonna be having problems catching Kiba if he and Aka runs right at him and his team with FoF lol.



> OMG, I just realised a simple solution....Shino Attacks all 3 members with his mass of insects. Ino-shika -cho have no choice but to try and back away from the bugs (because none of them on the team have anything in their arsenal to deal with bugs). The bugs distract them from being able to do their techniques. Then, the other Team 8 members could pick and choose who they want to take out first.



If Ino snipes Shino then this point becomes jack shit or Yoyo to crush the bugs or Choji in general.



> Kiba speedblitzes ino before she would have the time to make her stance for shintenshin no jutsu.



What? Lol. When Ino uses her jutsu her body falls after her mind leaves her body.

-Here we see Asuma in mid strike but Ino's speed got so fast that she could get into Choji's body and then block Asuma's strike before Asuma could actually land a blow. -Here we see V2 Kinkaku in mid strike yet Ino's speed was so fast that she caught him before he could complete his strike. 

If Ino's speed is fast enough to catch a V2 Jin(well pseudo) and Asuma(among someone else) before they both could complete a strike then Kiba's speed which wasn't shown to be too impressive isn't gonna blitz her before she snipes him assuming that Shika or Choji don't protect her. 



> Plus, the only time we've seen Ino directly use that move on someone who's actually focused on her is Part 1 Sakura. In shippuden, Ino has been successful with that move through help/distractions only.
> 
> Ino's jutsu's are only effective when her teammates are successfully distracting the opponents....but if the opponents have superior speed, distracting becomes a difficult task.
> Plus, Ino focusing her jutsu on one opponent makes her vulnerable to the other two opponents (Her teammates can't distract and protect her at the same time).



Well that obvious but hey I guess it's a good thing Ino has teammates here which can help/cause distractions here. 



> Remember, What Shikamaru said to Ino during the Hidan and Kakazu arc, If she uses her jutsu and she misses, she won't be able to return to her body after several minutes. She instantly becomes a burden on Team 10 if e.g. she misses Kiba or shino



Sure but that's only if she misses but seeing as how Ino doesn't have to shot her mind in a straight line but can also curve it as well as shooting it in two different directions, the chances of her missing with her teammates  around isn't too likely when her enemies have no knowledge.



Ailuro said:


> Again, it is likely that Kiba would be on he attack and Shino with his insects at the ready. Whether it's Fang Passing Fang, Four-Legged or Human-Beast combo, Kiba is likely to go into attack.



Again, And? They can do that but that doesn't change that if they are left open/distracted they can get sniped.




> It doesn't have to be Fang Passing Fang. After trash talking Naruto, he attacked with Four-Legged. This is bloodlusted Kiba. He'd be more on the attack than normal Kiba. So he won't be trash talking. A surprise attack is likely to hit one of Team 10. I doubt Shikamaru's shadows is catching him.



Kiba can try whatever but rushing in only helps helps him run into trouble be it Shika or Cho and if he's stopped then he's screwed if Ino wants to snipe him.



> There's also Akamaru.



Cool another thing to get beat down, trapped by Shika's shadows, or sniped by Ino.



> I already mentioned this, but Shino can still control his bugs even if caught by the shadow.



Sure but if he's caught by the shadows then he can be left wide open to Ino and that would stop the bugs.


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## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

KingForever7 said:


> I doubt that Asuma would be quicker than at least Kiba at this point but even if he is, it took the three members of team 10 to catch him off guard.



first off. ill rep you for this thread, its a good break from the norm 

however asuma being quicker than kiba is a given. for one he has better speed feats. 

it also took only shikamaru to catch hidan who had full knowledge. is anyone on the team faster than hidan or more agile, or has more knowledge. they have no knowledge of shadows here. 



> About Shikamaru and Hidan 1 on 1:
> - They've already encountered each other once + Shikamaru had been *planning his strategies since*. In the first encounter, Shikamaru needed three distractions to initially hold him
> - Hidan is reckless (like Kiba) and wasn't prepared for Shikamaru's team ambush (that *shikamaru planned*)
> - Hidan doesn't have clones (unlike shino) and so didn't have anything else in his arsenal to trick Shikamaru in the *second* encounter


.
therefore hidan who had knowledge got caught. they dont have knowledge here. 



> Shikamaru was successful by Planning for the second ambush. Which made his 1 on 1 with Hidan much easier.



hidan had knowledge they dont



> Which also makes him a much bigger target for Shino's Parasitic Bugs and Kiba's Tail chasing Fang (both of which) could quite possibly Kill him



but coming close to him means stepping on his shadow doesnt it. shikamaru trolls shino from there. 

increasing size is a bait. am sure you got that

also chasing fang killing chouji is funny, butterfly bullet bomb will send kiba flying backwards snapping his neck

throw a spinning chain saw into a wrecking ball. what do u think happens




> Kiba's recklessness is actually a positive in this scenario as it allows shino to assess and evaluate the opponents much quicker. Plus, If Kiba instantly charged Fang over fang towards them, They're gonna have to evade really quickly or Choji would have to use expansion asap to block Kiba, leaving the others wide open to use their techniques on Kiba.



its not since kiba can be 1 shotted by ino, very quickly



> Why wouldn't Bloodlust change anything for Team 8 ? Hinata would be a lot less hesitant in combat.
> 
> Again with the Shikamaru vs Hidan stuff. As I said above . Same applies ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Shikamaru would've died if he fought Hidan 1 on 1 on their *first* encounter.
> From what I've seen, Hidan wouldn't be able to get close to shino to use his ritual, his bugs can drain his chakra till he can't move then use his parasitic insect to dismember him. Unless Hidan had a space-time jutsu like Tobi or clones, he's doomed.



hinata isnt much of a factor. the only one who would engage her in cqc can neg diff her. 

hidan had knowledge and got caught. dont try spin it. 




> Oh God, This argument again  *sigh*
> 
> 1) Hinata helped extend Ino's mind transfer jutsu over a longer distance to reach Obito without being spotted.
> 
> ...



hinata didnt improve the power of the technique but the range. and yes if u can catch obito and hold him down for 2 seconds or catch kinkaku then yes shino mind gets violated for the fun of it 

feel free to provide a reason why shino if hit by the technique will be able to break out quicker. btw he isnt avoiding the technique if he doesnt know about it. he cant see chakra and she can use shintenshin bunshin, which means 2 people can be caught at once



> You and you're shikamaru vs Hidan 1 on 1
> 
> I've already talked enough about it above  ^^^^^^^^


[/QUOTE]

u sound dissapointed. but no team 10 are simply a horribly better team 

chouji expanding against a non knowledge team 8 means shikamaru is goign to very quickly catch them in his shadow. also lets not forget he got shadow possession weapons 

the guy 1 on 1 caught hidan who had full knowledge than shikamaru uses shadows. 

genin shikamaru caught temari again while she had full knowledge. its hilarious to think he wont catch kiba or hinata who would probably run into it. possibly shino if he attempts his parasitic bug jutsu

lets not forget into being a sensor, and shikamaru using a flash bomb before team 10 use formation B

thats an automatic rape


----------



## Punished Kiba (Jul 7, 2015)

Bonly said:


> Yeah by them and the battle overall. Look at what happened to Kinkaku, he was focused on attacking Shika and got caught by Ino and ended up being sealed.



You see, that's the problem in this scenario. Ino-shika-cho tactics are successful when fighting against 1 or 2 opponents (always fewer than the number in their team). But, in this scenario they're up against 3, so if all three of them are trying to take down 1 or 2 of  Team 8, there's gonna 1 that have a greater opportunity to catch ino-shika-cho off-guard.






Bonly said:


> Choji and Shika can protect Ino's body so Hinata can't really do much of anything.



No, Dealing with Shino and Kiba are gonna require alot of concentration due to Kiba's speed (why are trying to make him seem slow) and Shino's Bugs and high awareness. Ino's body would be extremely vulnerable if they're not focused on Hinata.





Bonly said:


> That's neat and all but that doesn't refresh my memory on when they actually did it off the bat.



Sasuke Retrival Arc (multiple occasions while chasing down the sound 4)




Bonly said:


> Kiba's speed wasn't be shown to be anything impressive since part one and even back then Naruto managed to react to a good deal of his attacks, Shika's not gonna be having problems catching Kiba if he and Aka runs right at him and his team with FoF lol.



Well, firstly Kiba dominated Naruto for majority of the fight and even when he lost due to the surprise fart, Kiba was still shown to react much faster than Naruto (who didn't even get to finish his hand seals)

Shika will have problems since Kiba can travel in all directions when performing fang over fang (he's not necessarily gonna travel in a straight line, sometimes it's a curved attack as shown in the Chunin exams and SRA)





Bonly said:


> If Ino snipes Shino then this point becomes jack shit or Yoyo to crush the bugs or Choji in general.



That's not gonna happen if Shino can clearly see her moving to a signature stance to perform shintenshin no jutsu, It would look like Ino is pointing some sort of invisible gun at him and that would make it easier for Shino to decipher her Techniques.

The Yoyo technique is never gonna work on the bugs because neither Choji or Ino can detect small insects. Due to the bugs small size and quantity, Shino's bugs can disperse and converge in different positions in the battle field to strike team 10. . But if there's a slight chance that Ino can detect the small bugs, what does she have in her arsenal to stop them ??





Bonly said:


> What? Lol. When Ino uses her jutsu her body falls after her mind leaves her body.



I don't understand what you're trying to show in relation to Kiba Speedblitzing her. You've just showed me the fundamentals of Ino's Jutsu (Which I already know).

Perhaps try and find a source where Ino uses her jutsu on a fast moving target heading straight towards *her*.....cos, every other moment have been on *Distracted opponents and/or Standing Still*



Bonly said:


> -Here we see Asuma in mid strike but Ino's speed got so fast that she could get into Choji's body and then block Asuma's strike before Asuma could actually land a blow. -Here we see V2 Kinkaku in mid strike yet Ino's speed was so fast that she caught him before he could complete his strike.



In both of those scenarios, Ino used her jutsu on two opponents who were *distracted* with her teammates. Just cos she was able to use the jutsu on Kinkaku and choji (before getting attacked), doesn't mean her jutsu is performed extremely fast, It again shows that she had time to prepare her justu while the opponents were occupied with her teammates. Again these are *3 on 1 scenarios* that gives Ino-shika-cho the advantage.

The only time we've seen Ino use her jutsu in a 1 on 1 scenario (which is equivalent to a 3 on 3 scenario) is her part 1 Sakura fight.



Bonly said:


> If Ino's speed is fast enough to catch a V2 Jin(well pseudo) and Asuma(among someone else) before they both could complete a strike then Kiba's speed which wasn't shown to be too impressive isn't gonna blitz her before she snipes him assuming that Shika or Choji don't protect her.



Like I said above Ino isn't stopping a fast moving Target by herself without a *distraction * (This would lead to more vulnerablity among the Ino-shika-cho formation as the other team 8 members would catch them off-guard)



Bonly said:


> Well that obvious but hey I guess it's a good thing Ino has teammates here which can help/cause distractions here.


Like I said this wouldn't  be an issue for ino-shika-cho if this was a 3 on 1 or 3 on 2, but this is a 3 on 3 where one member is arguably as intelligent as shikamaru and another member (with his Dog) moves quicker than all of them.





Bonly said:


> Sure but that's only if she misses but seeing as how Ino doesn't have to shot her mind in a straight line but can also curve it as well as shooting it in two different directions, the chances of her missing with her teammates  around isn't too likely when her enemies have no knowledge.



Ino was shown doing the Mind clone technique on Two Unconscious (*Still, Non-moving*)Bodies at very, very close range. That was a piece of cake for her. She would highly unlikely to be able to do that with fast moving conscious bodies.





Bonly said:


> Again, And? They can do that but that doesn't change that if they are left open/distracted they can get sniped.



Again, Shikamaru and Choji distracting Shino and Kiba for Ino snip one of them (there's no way she's gonna be able to snip two of them), would leave her vulnerable to the third team 8 member, Hinata. Hinata has her Air Palm justu, she doesn't need to get close to them in order to counter ino-shika-cho






Bonly said:


> Kiba can try whatever but rushing in only helps helps him run into trouble be it Shika or Cho and if he's stopped then he's screwed if Ino wants to snipe him.



That would be like a 3 on 1 or a 2 on 1 against Kiba, which (yet again) makes ino-shika-cho vulnerable to Shino and Hinata.





Bonly said:


> Sure but if he's caught by the shadows then he can be left wide open to Ino and that would stop the bugs.



No, That's not how ino's jutsu works, Invading her victims' minds allows her to control their body (not their jutsu's). When She invaded Obito's mind, his body was already attached with the Juubi controlling the Juubi's motion for a split 2 secs. Therefore, If shino casts his bug jutsu on them before Ino snips him, the bugs won't stop attacking. 

Plus, when the bugs continue to attack, Ino would have no choice but to retreat back to her body (as it would be attacked). Technically, Shino's bugs should be able to discompose ino-shika-cho giving Kiba and Hinata greater advantages. 


If Ino had better offensive feats(one that doesn't make her a target after using it) and if they had a jutsu to deal with Shino's bugs, it would really help Team 10 in their favour.


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

ps: hinata air palm is just about able to deflect moukton shards. her being able to do anything to slow giant chouji down is funny as well 

if she is a problem chouji partially transforms and smashes her. the end 

also ino+shika+chouji isnt just good against 1 opponent. they neg diff'd a bunch of juublings using combo attack 

some of which were gigantic the same ones hashirama clone said are pesky to deal with


----------



## Punished Kiba (Jul 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> ps: hinata air palm is just about able to deflect moukton shards. her being able to do anything to slow giant chouji down is funny as well
> 
> if she is a problem chouji partially transforms and smashes her. the end



Hinata isn't a problem for Choji, she's a problem for Ino if the others a concentrating on Kiba and Shino. Seriously, all it takes is one one small parasitic insect placed on Choji's huge body to finish him.



Icegaze said:


> also ino+shika+chouji isnt just good against 1 opponent. they neg diff'd a bunch of juublings using combo attack
> 
> some of which were gigantic the same ones hashirama clone said are pesky to deal with



Not really a big deal considering the fact Kiba took out multiple juublings by himself. (Which were the same sizes as the ones as the ones Ino-shika-cho took out....but then again the sizes of the juubilings didn't matter since Kiba cut through them like butter)

And the fact that Shino took out one giant out just by touching it (made it seem effortless)


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

KingForever7 said:


> Hinata isn't a problem for Choji, she's a problem for Ino if the others a concentrating on Kiba and Shino. Seriously, all it takes is one one small parasitic insect placed on Choji's huge body to finish him.



which requires shino to come close thereby stepping on chouji shadow and getting trolled by shikamaru. 



> Not really a big deal considering the fact Kiba took out multiple juublings by himself. (Which were the same sizes as the ones as the ones Ino-shika-cho took out....but then again the sizes of the juubilings didn't matter since Kiba cut through them like butter


)

good for kiba. I was just countering the convenient false statement u made which was their team combo is better suited against one opponent vs several 



> And the fact that Shino took out one giant out just by touching it (made it seem effortless)


luckly that cant happen to chouji as shino will have to step on chouji massive shadow before touching him 

good luck with that when shikamaru grabs shino through chouji shadow

btw flash bomb+team 10 formation B auto trolls team 8


----------



## Punished Kiba (Jul 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> which requires shino to come close thereby stepping on chouji shadow and getting trolled by shikamaru.



So what would Kiba be doing if Shikamaru and Choji are tag teaming to take out Shino ? 
Plus, The position of Shino and Choji's Shadows are dependant on the direction of Light from the sun...So Shino could potentially touch Choji without approaching his shadow.
Plus, If Shino deploys his bugs to attack both of them, Shikamaru wouldn't have the concentration to perform his jutsu (due to the bugs) and then Shino simply touches Giant Choji in the confusion. 
Plus, 



Icegaze said:


> good for kiba. I was just countering the convenient false statement u made which was their team combo is better suited against one opponent vs several



It wasn't a false statement, Since the Juubilings are basically strong mindless zombies with the *same attack* pattern. It's not an effective counter argument, as the juublings aren't* individual opponents with individual abilities/Traits*. e.g. They're like bacteria that's multiplied but can be Killed with the *same* spray because they all function the *same way*. So, in that sense, it's basically a 3 on 1.



Icegaze said:


> luckly that cant happen to chouji as shino will have to step on chouji massive shadow before touching him
> 
> good luck with that when shikamaru grabs shino through chouji shadow



Covered this already + Bugs





Icegaze said:


> btw flash bomb+team 10 formation B auto trolls team 8



1) The Flash bomb was only effective when Shikamaru was hiding from Tayuya and formulated a strategy to surprise her with the hidden flash bomb.  Shikamaru can't pull that same stunt with Team 8 as he would get detected easily (Tracking specialists)

2) Lets assume that Team 8 does get surprised by a flashbomb (though Highly unlikely) -
- Hinata would probably be most affected by it, and Shikamaru catches her shadow
- Shikamaru thinks he caught Shino, but shino used the confusion to create a bug clone
- Kiba wouldn't get caught at all, as his strongest sense is his nose so he could still charge towards them using Fang over Fang, Shikamaru wouldn't be able to catch Kiba's fast moving Shadow as he approaches. Choji Blocks Kiba's Attack
- Ino uses the opportunity to take over Hinata's body. Ino's body is now vulnerable
- Shino uses his bugs to attack Ino's body, Shikamaru tries to protect Ino's body but he doesn't have any thing in his arsenal to protect himself and Ino from the Bugs.
- Ino is forced to return to her body.
- Hinata immediately uses Air Palm jutsu from her distance to separate Ino and Shikamaru, This gives Shino the opening to use his Insect sphere on either of them (I'll choose Ino)
- Ino's Defeated
- Meanwhile Kiba and Choji are battling, Choji's having a difficult time due to Kiba's speed and decides to go Giant mode.
- Shikamaru is still trying to avoid Hinata's Air Palms and shino's bugs, He also realises that Shino and Hinata are aware of his shadows now. Shino and Hinata are also preventing him from teaming up Choji. Shikamaru's defeat is then inevitable
- Choji's giant mode provides either Kiba or Shino an greater target to use his Tail chasing Fang or Parasitic insect on Choji (thus finishing the Last member)

This is just a scenario about how it would go down (IF the flash bomb surprised Team 8).....Though, it's not realistic since they wouldn't let themselves be surprised by the Flashbomb to begin with 

But Nice try with the Flashbomb tho


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

KingForever7 said:


> So what would Kiba be doing if Shikamaru and Choji are tag teaming to take out Shino ?
> Plus, The position of Shino and Choji's Shadows are dependant on the direction of Light from the sun...So Shino could potentially touch Choji without approaching his shadow.
> Plus, If Shino deploys his bugs to attack both of them, Shikamaru wouldn't have the concentration to perform his jutsu (due to the bugs) and then Shino simply touches Giant Choji in the confusion.
> Plus,



poor kido. kiba will be tag teaming with shino of course which means as a cqc fighter he is very likely to be stepping on chouji shadow before he can do much. i didnt know shikamaru was limited to catching only 1 person with his shadow. 

true however thats nothing a flash bomb cant fix though. we know shikamaru uses those. and could use it off the bat, since team 10 like to go with combo attacks. flash bomb+YOYO got no counter at least not from team 8 



> It wasn't a false statement, Since the Juubilings are basically strong mindless zombies with the *same attack* pattern. It's not an effective counter argument, as the juublings aren't* individual opponents with individual abilities/Traits*. e.g. They're like bacteria that's multiplied but can be Killed with the *same* spray because they all function the *same way*. So, in that sense, it's basically a 3 on 1.




so they can beat several strong mindless zombies who can somehow think and react and know to attack. mindless my ass 

considering kiba best feat is defeatign those mindless bacteria it doesnt bode well for kiba



> Covered this already + Bugs




bugs which can hold on to a giant spinning meat tank ok. yh u covered it




> 1) The Flash bomb was only effective when Shikamaru was hiding from Tayuya and formulated a strategy to surprise her with the hidden flash bomb.  Shikamaru can't pull that same stunt with Team 8 as he would get detected easily (Tracking specialists)



how would he get detected. when they would be blinded and surprised by the light. while since its part of team 10 plan they would have readied formation B the instant the flash bomb detonates

unless kiba is in cerebrus form he cant do anythign but die against a giant yo yo coming his way



> 2) Lets assume that Team 8 does get surprised by a flashbomb (though Highly unlikely) -



very likely. anyone can be caught by a flash light will be on the defensive. See the 7th tail holder Fuu




> - Hinata would probably be most affected by it, and Shikamaru catches her shadow



lol actually she should be the least. since by releasing chakra she can detect things within a 50m radius like neji. How does kiba nose help him smell out shikamaru extending shadow?



> - Shikamaru thinks he caught Shino, but shino used the confusion to create a bug clone



this is cute. u mean the blinded shino who didnt expect a flash bomb to be used. 



> - Kiba wouldn't get caught at all, as his strongest sense is his nose so he could still charge towards them using Fang over Fang, Shikamaru wouldn't be able to catch Kiba's fast moving Shadow as he approaches. Choji Blocks Kiba's Attack



. he wont get caught by a flash bomb why? because he has a good sense of smell? can he smell an extending shadow?
common buddy being a fan is nice and all but no  please



> - Ino uses the opportunity to take over Hinata's body. Ino's body is now vulnerable



or hinata and shino clone. since u know she can shintenshin bunshin and clones arent immune to shintenshin or being controlled



> - Shino uses his bugs to attack Ino's body, Shikamaru tries to protect Ino's body but he doesn't have any thing in his arsenal to protect himself and Ino from the Bugs.



which would be hard if shino is being countered by his own bug clone. which ino is controlling or hinata who she is controlling. And shino priority would now be to save his team mate vs leaving his team mate hostage to ino will 



> - Ino is forced to return to her body.



read above 



> - Hinata immediately uses Air Palm jutsu from her distance to separate Ino and Shikamaru, This gives Shino the opening to use his Insect sphere on either of them (I'll choose Ino)



fan fic 



> - Ino's Defeated
> - Meanwhile Kiba and Choji are battling, Choji's having a difficult time due to Kiba's speed and decides to go Giant mode.
> - Shikamaru is still trying to avoid Hinata's Air Palms and shino's bugs, He also realises that Shino and Hinata are aware of his shadows now. Shino and Hinata are also preventing him from teaming up Choji. Shikamaru's defeat is then inevitable
> - Choji's giant mode provides either Kiba or Shino an greater target to use his Tail chasing Fang or Parasitic insect on Choji (thus finishing the Last member)



see above 



> This is just a scenario about how it would go down (IF the flash bomb surprised Team 8).....Though, it's not realistic since they wouldn't let themselves be surprised by the Flashbomb to begin with
> 
> But Nice try with the Flashbomb tho




you dont write very good stories

i laughed hard when kiba can somehow counter a flash bomb because he has a good sense of smell 

that killed me. and hinata the best trackign type ninja who can react to everything within a 50m radius at a 359 degree angle gets caught

but somehow kiba can smell shadows and doesnt get caught

one more time


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

Since you wrote a story. I would write mine 

i assume chunin exam area 3 on 3 battle. After the war arc 

Team 10 have 2 plans of attack. Formation A or formation B (Yo Yo style) Team 8 well we dont even know how they fight as a team 

So lets begin

- Chouji multisizes giving shikamaru more shadow to play with. I assume team hinata jump back 

- Shikamaru throws some kunai attached explosive tags from above right behind chouji to make the path difficult to read and hinata obviously see's through it with byakugan and air palms it

- shadows extend from the bottom which catches kiba who clearly can be fooled by such as he is no smarter than hidan who fell for the same trick despite his knowledge 

- kiba is shintenshin by ino. and basically ino can threaten to murder kiba if they dont back down or simply keep kiba held down long enough for chouji to crush him with his hands. In any case kiba can be taken out right there or held hostage which will make the others give up 

- possible a much smarter shino could have played the fool and left a bug clone, while the real one tries to attack from behind. However ino a sensor could warn shikamaru

- if shino comes close to shikamaru or chouji he is caught by shikamaru shadow and trolled thereafter 

*- there is also the possiblity of ino faking like kiba breaks out of shintenshin and using kiba to attack his team mates who would have to put kiba down essentially makign it a 3 vs 2 very quickly *

in any case and in summary once 1 or 2 of team 8 are caught in a shadow team 10 essentially win  or in range of shintenshin which BM naruto called fast and was also able to catch chouji before asuma who was point blank could attack chouji 

they loose. 

imagine a bloodlusted ino threatening to kill hinata or kiba whose body she is controlling. how would they know that she cant kill hinata or kiba and live herself

though with shintenshin bunshin she might be able to 

shino only option would be to drain either of their chakra to prevent them doing harm. however that takes his team mates out of battle.

*PS: Turrin, rocky, bonly and Strat what is your take on the match up, Starwanderer as well. Give your take on it*


----------



## Bonly (Jul 7, 2015)

KingForever7 said:


> You see, that's the problem in this scenario. Ino-shika-cho tactics are successful when fighting against 1 or 2 opponents (always fewer than the number in their team). But, in this scenario they're up against 3, so if all three of them are trying to take down 1 or 2 of  Team 8, there's gonna 1 that have a greater opportunity to catch ino-shika-cho off-guard.



Juubi,Obito,Madara. I count three right there who they managed to snipe with Ino so three people isn't a big deal 



> No, Dealing with Shino and Kiba are gonna require alot of concentration due to Kiba's speed (why are trying to make him seem slow) and Shino's Bugs and high awareness. Ino's body would be extremely vulnerable if they're not focused on Hinata.



Kiba's speed is unimpressive, he's done jack shit to suggest it's fast enough to give these guys a big problem, not to say he's slow just saying it isn't gonna be a big factor/game changer or things of that nature. As for team Shika+Choji protecting Ino, it's not gonna be too much of a problem. Shika's Shadows have a nice AoE which can catch these guys if they get close and Choji can become hella big which in itself he can wreck house as well as have these guys focus on him rather then Ino.



> Sasuke Retrival Arc (multiple occasions while chasing down the sound 4)



I don't remember tbh but I'm not gonna waste my time looking through the entire arc so imma just assume your right and move on



> Well, firstly Kiba dominated Naruto for majority of the fight and even when he lost due to the surprise fart, Kiba was still shown to react much faster than Naruto (who didn't even get to finish his hand seals)



That's neat but Naruto who was slower then Kiba could still react to a good amount of Kiba's attacks.



> Shika will have problems since Kiba can travel in all directions when performing fang over fang (he's not necessarily gonna travel in a straight line, sometimes it's a curved attack as shown in the Chunin exams and SRA)



Kiba and move up,down,left,right, ect all he wants but getting close to Shika either way is only asking to be caught by his shadows, hell physical contact alone caught Hidan in the shadows because there shadows touch so all Shika has to do is avoid Kiba and catch him and seeing as how Shika was reacting to Kakuzu and Hidan, welp Kiba's chances aren't looking to good.



> That's not gonna happen if Shino can clearly see her moving to a signature stance to perform shintenshin no jutsu, It would look like Ino is pointing some sort of invisible gun at him and that would make it easier for Shino to decipher her Techniques.



Shino can see her put her hands up but it's not gonna do anything to stop her from catching someone the first time around also him slowly deciphering the jutsu isn't going to help if he ends up distracted during the fight.



> The Yoyo technique is never gonna work on the bugs because neither Choji or Ino can detect small insects. Due to the bugs small size and quantity, Shino's bugs can disperse and converge in different positions in the battle field to strike team 10.




Ino was shown to be a sensor, she's gonna sense the bugs so yeah the Yoyo will work.



> But if there's a slight chance that Ino can detect the small bugs, what does she have in her arsenal to stop them ??



You're right Ino by herself doesn't have much besides catching Shino and stopping but luckily she has a teammate named Choji to help take them out with things like Yoyo or things of that nature.




> I don't understand what you're trying to show in relation to Kiba Speedblitzing her. You've just showed me the fundamentals of Ino's Jutsu (Which I already know).



The reason why I showed you this is so that you understand the speed of Ino's jutsu. If her body falls as soon as her mind leaves her body then you can see how fast her jutsu is when she catches these people when you see her body fall afterwords.



> In both of those scenarios, Ino used her jutsu on two opponents who were *distracted* with her teammates. Just cos she was able to use the jutsu on Kinkaku and choji (before getting attacked), *doesn't mean her jutsu is performed extremely fast*



And I stop reading here. I know you wanna fanboy over team 8 which I don't have a problem with but if you're gonna say some straight BS like the bold after I showed you how her jutsu works which proves her jutsu is fast when I showed you it used on people faster then everyone on team 8, then there's no point in going forward.


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

Bonly said:


> And I stop reading here. I know you wanna fanboy over team 8 which I don't have a problem with but if you're gonna say some straight BS like the bold after I showed you how her jutsu works which proves her jutsu is fast when I showed you it used on people faster then everyone on team 8, then there's no point in going forward.



whats funny is the obito and co were distracted. i wonder if kiba and his team are immune to distractions


----------



## Punished Kiba (Jul 7, 2015)

Oh Wow .
I facepalmed so much while reading your posts. This is Isn't a discussion anymore, It's mainly just pure Ino wanking  .

I have so much to say in response but right now I'm busy celebrating Kiba's birthday.

Don't worry I will respond back.


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

KingForever7 said:


> Oh Wow .
> I facepalmed so much while reading your posts. This is Isn't a discussion anymore, It's mainly just pure Ino wanking  .
> 
> I have so much to say in response but right now I'm busy celebrating Kiba's birthday.
> ...



referring to both Me and Bonly or just me or just Bonly?

in any case its hard to wank ino considering her feats

could catch obito, kinkaku, 2 zetsu (who were running at her) 

when we even imagine that the YOYO tactic basically means she isn't even going to be relying on shintenshin at all. 

its a perfect combo of their technique. she senses, shikamaru slings chouji like a yo yo and yo yo smashes

also feel free to explain why kinkaku mind can be violated. she basically called out his name that's how he called sealed, how rinnegan obito mind can be made to alter juubi BD 

but its shino, hinata and kiba  whose minds are too strong to escape it

btw notice she caught obito without the help of shadow possession as well as the zetsu's 

unless they are constantly moving about the place she snipes them and trolls them. hard to avoid something you cant see. only hinata may be able to see it


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 10, 2015)

this thread was entertaining 
what happened to it


----------



## Punished Kiba (Jul 10, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> this thread was entertaining
> what happened to it



I'll be honest, I lost interest 

I know I promised that I would respond, but then I realised there would be no point as you guys would continue to underestimate Shino, underutilize Hinata and make Kiba seems like a complete moron with Zero skills whatsoever.

There's still so much I could say about the matter, but I feel like I'll be wasting my time as you guys would still undermine Team 8 due to lack of screentime.

Plus there was alot of ridiculous stuff you were saying e.g. "_Kiba Smelling Shikamaru's shadows_" lol what ?, is that what you interpreted ?  "_Ino can mind transfer clones now, Bug clones ?_" 

Sorry, I've lost interest


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 10, 2015)

since when were clones immune to ino jutsu
uve lost interest cuz tbh team 8 isn't all that interesting 

Mr I want to make kiba relevant. scream time or not his skills are so limited. its hard to actually make him relevant


----------



## Punished Kiba (Jul 10, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> since when were clones immune to ino jutsu



Since when can Ino mind transfer to a "clone jutsu" and what would that even accomplish if the original  user could dispel the clone anyway. 

Plus, to add on from the manga, only Shadow clones (at least Naruto's) have been shown to have minds of their own. So, if anything Ino's jutsu would only work on Shadow clones (mabye just only Naruto's). So, to suggest that Ino can mind  transfer to Bug clones (Made from a collection of bugs to impersonate the real user) just isn't possible 




Icegaze said:


> uve lost interest cuz tbh team 8 isn't all that interesting
> 
> Mr I want to make kiba relevant. scream time or not his skills are so limited. its hard to actually make him relevant



You see, This is exactly what I'm saying, you're putting your personal grudges towards Kiba and  Team 8 which has made the discussion quite idiotic honestly.


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 12, 2015)

I have no personal grudge with kiba
ficitional character buddy

however there is not much interesting about a character who sole means of attack is to spin 

also one who isn't all that intelligent

also feats department they team 8 is lacklustre due to relevance

you are right about the bug clones. maybe it wont work. 

nothing formation B cant solve YOYO of death is GG


----------



## Ailuro (Jul 12, 2015)

Spoilered last counter arguments because of length. I think this fight is finished, but it's there if anyone wants to continue.

Icegaze

*Spoiler*: __ 





Icegaze said:


> poor kido. kiba will be tag teaming with shino of course which means as a cqc fighter he is very likely to be stepping on chouji shadow before he can do much. i didnt know shikamaru was limited to catching only 1 person with his shadow.



If Team 10 try the giant Choji's shadow combo it'll go like this:
- Choji goes massive.
- Shikamaru uses Choji's shadow to trap Team 8
- Team 8 is trapped and things look fine for Team 10
- Choji/Ino move in for the kill
- Shino reveals he can control his insects because they do not require a hand seal
- He uses them to surprise attack. Shino has canonically worked out an opponent's jutsu and it's weakness in a short manner of time. He is capable of deciding when best to use his insects and who to attack. Shino would know the best option is to attack Shikamaru and free his teammates.

Ino? Ino has never controlled someone's animal partner. Nor has she ever used someone's jutsu. She won't be controlling the bugs.



> considering kiba best feat is defeatign those mindless bacteria it doesnt bode well for kiba


No, his best feat is denting a Rashomon gate. Even so, defeating those mindless bacteria showcased his strength and speed. The target has nothing to do with the speed and power of an attack.



> bugs which can hold on to a giant spinning meat tank ok. yh u covered it



It's the amount of bugs. Whilst they may not hold on for long, their draining power in almost instant. It'll be enough for Choji to feel the effects.

"good luck with that when shikamaru grabs shino through chouji shadow"

Why do you keep ignoring that Shikamaru's shadow can't prevent Shino from attacking?



> how would he get detected. when they would be blinded and surprised by the light. while since its part of team 10 plan they would have readied formation B the instant the flash bomb detonates
> 
> unless kiba is in cerebrus form he cant do anythign but die against a giant yo yo coming his way



Blinded isn't preventing Kiba's nose. Nor Shino's insects, who can detect chakra.

The flash bomb reminded me that Kiba has Smoke Bombs and an exploding fake Akamaru. Something Team 10 would not detect.

Team 8 could use the same tactic to surprise Team 10.




> lol actually she should be the least. since by releasing chakra she can detect things within a 50m radius like neji. *How does kiba nose help him smell out shikamaru extending shadow?*



So basically Hinata can see? Which means no one of Team 8 would be effected by the light.

They never even implied that. They said Kiba's nose would smell Team 10's position, even in the blinding light. As well as Shino's insects being able to detect chakra.




> this is cute. u mean the blinded shino who didnt expect a flash bomb to be used.



Whose insects can detect chakra, therefore Shino can still attack.



> which would be hard if shino is being countered by his own bug clone. which ino is controlling or hinata who she is controlling. And shino priority would now be to save his team mate vs leaving his team mate hostage to ino will



The bug clone is *made up of many insects* and Ino can only control two opponents. Ino will be unaware of this, she's use her mind control and screw herself over.

You just gave Team 8 the means to beat Ino if she chooses to control Shino's Bug Clone.

Also, according to the novels, which is allowed in this fight: "A large number of insects could even take on the shape of a human and *use your own jutsu*. In this way, the Aburame clan who lived side by side with a large number of insects since the day they were all born became familiar with the nature of those insects, *and perfected the jutsus they used when they fought alongside them*."




> i laughed hard when kiba can somehow counter a flash bomb because he has a good sense of smell



KingForever7 never even said this, so you're pretty much laughing at something you came up with because of your own misreading.




Bonly.

*Spoiler*: __ 





Bonly said:


> Kiba's speed is unimpressive, he's done jack shit to suggest it's fast enough to give these guys a big problem, not to say he's slow just saying it isn't gonna be a big factor/game changer or things of that nature. As for team Shika+Choji protecting Ino, it's not gonna be too much of a problem. Shika's Shadows have a nice AoE which can catch these guys if they get close and Choji can become hella big which in itself he can wreck house as well as have these guys focus on him rather then Ino.



Why would Kiba's speed need to be impressive to hit Team 10? They're too slow to avoid it. Especially since they won't expect it the first time.

Shino's insects has an even better AoE. Since they allow for not much room and even if avoided, can sense chakra and keep on pursuit.

Kiba can also get hella big. And hella faster.

Not all three would focus on one opponent. Stop making team 8 stupid. They won't be easily distracted. Nor will they be easily caught.




> Kiba and move up,down,left,right, ect all he wants but getting close to Shika either way is only asking to be caught by his shadows, hell physical contact alone caught Hidan in the shadows because there shadows touch so all Shika has to do is avoid Kiba and catch him and seeing as how Shika was reacting to Kakuzu and Hidan, welp Kiba's chances aren't looking to good.



Which Shikamaru would not be expecting the first time. he'd get hit multiple times before he can do anything, allowing Hinata or Shino the option to ready an attack. He'd have to have a big enough shadow to catch Kiba offguard, otherwise he gets caught offguard.



> Ino was shown to be a sensor, she's gonna sense the bugs so yeah the Yoyo will work.



Shino's insects can confuse chakra.




> I know you wanna fanboy over team 8



Team 10's side has, to mention a few...

- hyped Ino's speed. But when pointed out that Ino only caught distracted opponents, is so insistent that Kiba and Shino will be caught easily. Laughing at the idea that neither would be smart enough t ignore it or see through it.
- made it out that Kiba and Shino would be easily distracted because... someone else was?
- Kiba would be caught by Shikamaru because Hiden, a slower opponent, was?
- Kiba is a moron with unimpressive speed who'll run straight into Shikamaru's shadow.
- Somehow the point of Team 8 not having team work and relevance is important to the fight.
- Ino has the option to snipe if she chooses, but Shino can't deploy his insects to catch anyone offuard in a "sphere". It's too much wanking to mention Team 10 has little to no counter for such a surprise attack.

But only KingForever7 is fanboying?







Icegaze said:


> whats funny is the obito and co were distracted. i wonder if kiba and his team are immune to distractions



Implying that because other were distracted, Team 8 will be also. Yet it is possible to be unaffected or recover quickly. Canon Shino doesn't even underestimate his opponent and uses distractions himself and Kiba has been known to get serious, only acting the moron because he was fighting Naruto.



> in any case its hard to wank ino considering her feats



Seemed like no one had any trouble doing that with "sniper Ino catches all". 



> but its shino, hinata and kiba  whose minds are too strong to escape it



Noone even said this, except you and Bonly. You are the same person who though King said that Kiba can smell shadows.

You're the one stating that Team 8 is too stupid and easily fooled by distractions.



> unless they are constantly moving about the place she snipes them and trolls them.



You mean like Kiba? You mean like how Shino can troll her with his insects? Because she finds she can't control them?




Icegaze said:


> since when were clones immune to ino jutsu
> uve lost interest cuz tbh team 8 isn't all that interesting


Bug Clones are made up of a colony of insects. They're not one being. Ino wouldn't even know this and get caught in two insects.
Interesting is irreverent, as well as opinionated. I think Shikamaru is boring, I still don't use my personal thoughts to shit on his chakra.

You just sound desperate and petty.



> Mr I want to make kiba relevant. scream time or not his skills are so limited. its hard to actually make him relevant



No amount of relevance is going to ignore Kiba's speed, which no one of team 10 has ever avoided. Stop being petty and attacking someone's favourite. Stop using your opinion as fact.



> however there is not much interesting about a character who sole means of attack is to spin



Shikamaru's sole means of attack is to catch them in a shadow. Ino's is to mind control them. Choji's is to get big.



> also one who isn't all that intelligent



Yet he was able to use a smoke bomb to render his opponent blind and trick another with a fake exploding Akamaru. Akamaru himself has been known to keep Kiba on guard. Kiba would also have Shino and Hinata o stop him from being stupid.

Even so, you don't need intelligence when you can either fast hit someone or turn into a *giant fucking dog*!



> also feats department they team 8 is lacklustre due to relevance



Which is irrelevant. But you still have to dumb them down to make sure, right?


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jul 13, 2015)

Unfair match up really, Team 10 has had more panel time than Team 8.

Also, Asuma would never try to kill Kurenai.


----------



## Ailuro (Jul 13, 2015)

What does panel time have to do with anything? Suddenly Team 10 can avoid everything because they have more panel time?

You'd also have to apply that logic to every battledome fight.

Actually make a valid argument, please. Or don't bother.


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jul 13, 2015)

Ailuro said:


> What does panel time have to do with anything? Suddenly Team 10 can avoid everything because they have more panel time?
> 
> You'd also have to apply that logic to every battledome fight.
> 
> Actually make a valid argument, please. Or don't bother.



What the actual fuck are you talking about? This *is* a valid argument.

Panel time is essential in establishing a character's versatility and growth, Prior to the War Arc, we haven't seen anything from Team 8 but a scuffle from Hinata vs. Deva. Whereas Shikamaru and Chouji have both established themselves exceptionally from the Hidan/Kakuzu Arc, to the Pain Invasion to the War Arc.


----------



## Skywalker (Jul 13, 2015)

Team 10 wrecks Team 8, they just don't match up.


----------



## Ailuro (Jul 13, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> What the actual fuck are you talking about? This *is* a valid argument.
> 
> Panel time is essential in establishing a character's versatility and growth, Prior to the War Arc, we haven't seen anything from Team 8 but a scuffle from Hinata vs. Deva. Whereas Shikamaru and Chouji have both established themselves exceptionally from the Hidan/Kakuzu Arc, to the Pain Invasion to the War Arc.



What the fuck are you talking about?

You just completely wrote off all of Kiba's and Shino's, and the rest of Hinata's feats.

Shikamaru and Choji's performance does not determine a win. They're fighting different opponents. They also have no knowledge in this fight.

How does team 10 deal with Kiba's speed? They won't know that Hinata can see everything. Shikamaru and Ino can't hold/catch Shino's insects.

People have already been debating this and you just decide to jump to the end make a stupid argument.  



Skywalker said:


> Team 10 wrecks Team 8, they just don't match up.



Like this person did.


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 13, 2015)

> Ailuro said:
> 
> 
> > Spoilered last counter arguments because of length. I think this fight is finished, but it's there if anyone wants to continue.
> ...


----------



## Naiad (Jul 13, 2015)

whats the deal with the bug clones xD Ino would sense its different chakra signature anyway. also both teams dont start prepped, and they start 15 metres in front of each other, so @ what point will Shino  be able to cast bugclone then? if Ino is going for him he is possessed before he does the handseals for it..

lol people. then lets chouji start in BM and he soloes team 8 in an instant.


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jul 13, 2015)

Ailuro said:


> What the fuck are you talking about?
> 
> You just completely wrote off all of Kiba's and Shino's, and the rest of Hinata's feats.
> 
> ...



Chouji was fighting the entire Gedo Mezo statue, your entire argument is invalid.

The point is that Team 8 is heavily underused in the manga and have limited to feats. I agree there unique abilities would give them the advantage but you'd have to restrict Chouji heavily. Kiba's speed, Shino's bugs nor Hinata's vision are going to stop this.

On top of which, match is bloodlusted, Chouji starts out in his strongest form and fodderizes the entire Team 8.


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 13, 2015)

I just find it odd that its even debatable 

like I wouldn't start chouji in BM just to keep things going but if he starts off with that 

I don't see what on earth they can do to not die. like he basically murders them on his own...at least that's what it looks like

but I would like to think they are on the same level hence why my posts involve team 10 as a team. since they are a much better team, their jutsu are basically designed to work together 

team 8 you got 2 taijutsu users so mainly cqc and 1 mid range ninjutsu user. who jutsu doesn't support his team mates at all


----------



## Bonly (Jul 13, 2015)

Ailuro said:


> Bonly.
> 
> Why would Kiba's speed need to be impressive to hit Team 10? They're too slow to avoid it. Especially since they won't expect it the first time.



They reacted to people who is faster then Kiba. If his speed isn't impressive enough to match the people they reacted to then his speed isn't gonna be a big factor for Ino-Shika-Cho.



> Shino's insects has an even better AoE. Since they allow for not much room and even if avoided, can sense chakra and keep on pursuit.



Choji has a bigger and better AoE when he gets big and can roll around via yoyo and crush all those bugs and what not but yes those bugs do keep the pressure on which is why I said Shino is the biggest threat on the team.



> Kiba can also get hella big. And hella faster.



Not fast enough to outdo Choji. 



> Not all three would focus on one opponent.



They don't need to.



> Stop making team 8 stupid.



I'm not doing that, the manga did it for me. The only one who was portrayed as smart was Shino, Hinata+Kiba was portrayed as decent to stupid(Kiba told people to look at them moon when MT was being used ) so yeah I'm just going with the manga.



> They won't be easily distracted. Nor will they be easily caught.



And yet you have brought nothing useful to the table to suggest they won't when they have no knowledge on Ino's jutsu to say 100 percent focused on her. 




> Which Shikamaru would not be expecting the first time. he'd get hit multiple times before he can do anything, allowing Hinata or Shino the option to ready an attack. He'd have to have a big enough shadow to catch Kiba offguard, otherwise he gets caught offguard.



Physical contact gets people caught in Shika's shadows so no Kiba is not gonna be landing multiple hits so if Kiba did manage to hit Shika he wouldn't be getting in multiple hits, just one. But seeing as how Shika could react to Kakuzu's sneak attack and gain a bit of distance, I'm unsure how likely it is that Kiba would get a hit in before he's caught.



> Shino's insects can confuse chakra.



I don't think you really understood what was said. The bugs themselves give off chakra to confuse sensor from a person and the insect but as I said Ino will be able to sense said bugs so the jamming jutsu will do nothing but tell Ino where said bugs are at so yeah. 



> - hyped Ino's speed. But when pointed out that Ino only caught distracted opponents, is so insistent that Kiba and Shino will be caught easily.



Lets time I check Ino has teammates right? Last time I check Team 8 doesn't have knowledge on her jutsu meaning that when she takes her stance, they won't know what's coming, hell the jutsu is invisible to see lol.



> Laughing at the idea that neither would be smart enough t ignore it or see through it.



It's pretty funny when they have no knowledge whatsoever and they are now unable to be hit when multiple other people(so faster or smarter or both) have been caught when Ino has teammates.



> - made it out that Kiba and Shino would be easily distracted because... someone else was?



Yeah and so far you've brought nothing to make anyone think they won't be distracted throughout the fight.



> - Kiba would be caught by Shikamaru because Hiden, a slower opponent, was?



Hidan who was pressuring Kakashi is slower then Kiba?

Allofmylols.



> - Kiba is a moron with unimpressive speed who'll run straight into Shikamaru's shadow.



For the most part yeah.



> - Somehow the point of Team 8 not having team work and relevance is important to the fight.



I never mentioned it so it doesn't matter to me but yeah that's bad though depending on the people, relevance would play a factor if one is going for the portrayal argument.



> - Ino has the option to snipe if she chooses, but Shino can't deploy his insects to catch anyone offuard in a "sphere".



I don't remember seeing anyone saying Shino can't use that jutsu here or saying he can't use his bugs here is have to keep them inside his body.



> It's too much wanking to mention Team 10 has little to no counter for such a surprise attack.



Well Team 10 has multiple counters for Team 8 attacks so I don't see them having little to none nor see it being considered wanking.



> But only KingForever7 is fanboying?[/SPOILER]
> 
> When he starts ignoring outright facts, yeah.


----------



## Ailuro (Jul 14, 2015)

Icegaze.


*Spoiler*: __ 





Icegaze said:


> > Shino's bugs can block/confuse sensors.
> >
> >
> >
> > ...








Icegaze said:


> > Naiad said:
> >
> >
> > > whats the deal with the bug clones xD Ino would sense its different chakra signature anyway.
> > ...


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 14, 2015)

@ailuro
chouji BM mode cant be stopped by any of them however kiba 3 headed mode can be stopped by chouji

if 3 headed wolf and a BM chakra punch clash which do u think would win? am curious 

As to the scenario discussed where they get caught and shino frees them with his bugs. do note shino bugs are alot slower than ino ability to shintenshin..

shikamaru would know who the brains of the team is just by looking. that would be Ino target. if she targets shino 

team 10 basically win since neither kiba or hinata have jutsu nor are they smart enough to make a difference.


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Jul 14, 2015)

explosive tags aren't stopping shino from soloing shika & Ino.
hinata seems a natural counter to Ino & Kiba to shika, in any case

if team asuma wins, its only because bloodlust choji solos in BM mode.

Kiba would be able to match base chouji w/ his speed & damage output.

I think team kurenai wins 7/10 times


----------



## Ailuro (Jul 14, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> chouji BM mode cant be stopped by any of them however kiba 3 headed mode can be stopped by chouji



Choji stops this?

Choji has to punch Kiba who will be speeding towards him with more than three times the destructive power.



> if 3 headed wolf and a BM chakra punch clash which do u think would win? am curious



I really don't know. I know more about Kiba than I do Choji. Three-Headed is fast, efficient and has remarkable destructive power.

Since Choji has to punch Kiba, he'd have to hit exact when Kiba is about to hit him. (just has an image of this large three-headed dog flying over the horizon)



> As to the scenario discussed where they get caught and shino frees them with his bugs. do note shino bugs are alot slower than ino ability to shintenshin..



This is the speed of which Shino's insects move.
And how fast they spread.

Their speed doesn't matter in that scenario, because I said it was a surprise sneak attack. Ino would have to notice them.



> *shikamaru would know who the brains of the team is just by looking*. that would be Ino target. if she targets shino



He has done this when? Even so,what does that accomplish? You'd still have to provide an actual reasoning to how Shikamaru counters Shino's brain.

So what happens when Ino targets Shino?



> team 10 basically win since neither kiba or hinata have jutsu nor are they smart enough to make a difference.



Your over hyping Team 10 and underrating Team 8 way too much here. Only Choji in BM mode can possibly counter Kiba's Three-Headed mode. Hinata could attack with Lion's Fist or Air Palm without T10 expecting it. The latter of which blows them back, allowing Kiba or Shino to attack.

You use too much trifling arguments.


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 14, 2015)

Ailuro said:


> Choji stops this?



yh. i hope i dont need to show you scans of chouji punching GM 



> Choji has to punch Kiba who will be speeding towards him with more than three times the destructive power.



again do u need scans of chouji destructive power in BM mode? the punch hit GM and caused shock waves. well since you seem to want to scans here is a scan



do u think kiba can survive that kind of hit?

note gedo mazo with 6+ bijuu actually leaned back. kiba dies on impact here



> I really don't know. I know more about Kiba than I do Choji. Three-Headed is fast, efficient and has remarkable destructive power.



then inquire about chouji. and get back to me. its fast true. remarkable destructive power is a stretch its destructive but nothign chouji cant replicate 



> Since Choji has to punch Kiba, he'd have to hit exact when Kiba is about to hit him. (just has an image of this large three-headed dog flying over the horizon)



wut? he waits till kiba gets point blank then BM punches him. think of a spinning ball being thrown at you and you punch it back



> This is the speed of which Shino's insects move.
> And how fast they spread.



BM naruto commented on ino shintenshin speed and said she is quicker than him. enough said ino shintenshin>>shino bugs in speed 



> Their speed doesn't matter in that scenario, because I said it was a surprise sneak attack. Ino would have to notice them.



thank god she is a sensor 




> He has done this when? Even so,what does that accomplish? You'd still have to provide an actual reasoning to how Shikamaru counters Shino's brain.



by being alooooooooooot smarter 



> So what happens when Ino targets Shino?



holds shino hostage and tells the others to back down or she splits his neck open. just an idea 




> Your over hyping Team 10 and underrating Team 8 way too much here. Only Choji in BM mode can possibly counter Kiba's Three-Headed mode. Hinata could attack with Lion's Fist or Air Palm without T10 expecting it. The latter of which blows them back, allowing Kiba or Shino to attack.



counter you mean crush! lol. whats hinata cute lion fist supposed to do to chouji massive bijuu sized fist coming down on her? 




> You use too much trifling arguments.





hardly trifling. you are abit worse considering you think 3 headed wolf can defeat someone who actually hit GM and had it lean back. that alone ensures kiba dies on impact unless u think kiba in 3 headed wolf form is nearly as durable as gedo mazo. you know the juubi shell 

hinata and kiba are basically countered by chouji simply expanding and having a shadow. both prefer cqc which requires they step on chouji shadow to get to chouji. 

if shikamaru can control hidan with his shadow with ease. he probably controls these 2 and has them run into each other killing them


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 14, 2015)

spread

the guy creates shockwaves big enough to send people away that arent even being targetted

manga portrayal and what not is the only reason anyone shouldnt say chouji goes BM and solo's

lets think about their feats

shikamaru- catches hidan in his shadow 1 on 1. hidan had knowledge
chouji- punches GM and it actually moved 
ino- shintenshin fast and strong enough to catch 
1) kinkaku before he could do anything about it. despite being a V2 jin
2) obito before he could do anyting about it 

that leaves me to believe anyone caught in shintenshin is toast and basically a hostage .


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jul 14, 2015)

Ailuro said:


> No it isn't. You don't base a win on an opponent beating a stronger opponent. Choji is fighting three unknown opponents whose jutsu he has no idea what they do.
> 
> Kiba is a lot faster than a Gedo Mezo statue and Choji can't hit what he can't catch.
> 
> Limited feats doesn't mean they'd lose. It's about whether any of the team has a counter to them. Only Shino has the counter to Shikamaru's shadow and Ino's sensing, for example.


this
this
this

Butterfly Chouji Stomps, your argument is invalid.



Ailuro said:


> They won't stop it. They'd try to avoid it. If successful Kiba could then try to counter giant Choji with Three-Head form. It's speed and power would give him some advantage, I think. If Shino avoids it, maybe like this, he moves behind Choji and sneaks a flesh and chakra eating bug into him.


Again, none of them are that fast, if Asuma couldn't dodge it, they aren't going to.



Ailuro said:


> Or Kiba starts off in Three-Head. Or Shino just swarms his entire bug colony and attacks T10. Their movement and draining speed means T10 can't do a thing.


Chouji is taller than mountains, whatever Kiba or Shino do, isn't going to help. They get solo'd hard


----------



## Bonly (Jul 14, 2015)

I was gonna reply to you Ailuro but then I saw you say that Kiba was alot faster then Kakuzu(El-Oh-El) so there's no point in going forward with this so good day sir or ma'ma.


----------



## Ailuro (Jul 15, 2015)

Icegaze


*Spoiler*: __ 





Icegaze said:


> again do u need scans of chouji destructive power in BM mode? the punch hit GM and caused shock waves. well since you seem to want to scans here is a scan



I didn't even argue against his destructive power. You said "the punch *hit* GM". Which does nothing to counter my point that Choji has to HIT Kiba who will be moving at fast speeds and who also can move efficiently. Is Choji's fist faster than Kiba's Tail Chasing?

Just show a scan next time.  




> do u think kiba can survive that kind of hit?
> 
> note gedo mazo with 6+ bijuu actually leaned back. kiba dies on impact here



Didn't imply he'd survived. Just pointed out that Choji's fist has to be fast to connect than Kiba's Tail Chasing.



> then inquire about chouji. and get back to me. its fast true. remarkable destructive power is a stretch its destructive but nothign chouji cant replicate



I already implied Choji has more destructive power.  I just said his punch only has to connect with Kiba. And while it may be right to ask someone to inquire about a character, you shouldn't expect people to do something you didn't do, since most of your team 10 beats team 8 argument is based mostly on your lack of knowledge for the latter.

Also, it's your job to include evidence of claim. Not mine.



> wut? he waits till kiba gets point blank then BM punches him. think of a spinning ball being thrown at you and you punch it back



Has Choji ever punched a fast moving target heading his way? A spinning ball being thrown at you doesn't move as fast as Tail Chasing's ferocious speed. You can apply the "wait and hit" tactic to everyone. But it's just baseless without scans.



> BM naruto commented on ino shintenshin speed and said she is quicker than him. enough said ino shintenshin>>shino bugs in speed



Shino's bugs quickly move and spread out to take advantage of the entire field. If those bugs happen to be blocking Ino's view of Shino, she can't Shinenshin him. Also, the only time Shino would release his bugs for Ino to see is because he wants her to see them as a distraction for the actual bugs that will be attacking Ino, moving with great secrecy.



> thank god she is a sensor


Sensing doesn't mean she can react to them, though. They can also emit a small amount of Shino's chakra, creating numerous false 'images' or chakra signals. So all Ino will sense is Shino.



> by being alooooooooooot smarter



A half-arsed answer.

"You'd still have to provide an *actual reasoning* to how Shikamaru counters Shino's brain."

Shikamaru figuring out Shino is smart, doesn't help him counter his tactics.



> holds shino hostage and tells the others to back down or she splits his neck open. just an idea



Risky. Unless she can control his insects, they'd be moving for her body. I know she can use the host's jutsu, but it's a different matter that the insects are suddenly being asked by their "master" to stop their attack. Also, there would be insects still inside Shino.  If not, she leaves her body defenseless for the insects attack and they'd be on her before she realises her mistake and reacts.



> counter you mean crush! lol. whats hinata cute lion fist supposed to do to chouji massive bijuu sized fist coming down on her?



When did I say anything about Hinata's Lion Fists countering Choji's punch? I said "Only Choji in BM mode can possibly counter Kiba's Three-Headed mode". The Hinata part was answer to this " neither kiba or hinata have jutsu".



>


You actually went for that? 



> hardly trifling.


_"but considering kiba personality and team 8 general lack of team work"
"hinata is going to dream of naruto "
"which catches kiba who clearly can be fooled by such as he is no smarter than hidan"
"but its shino, hinata and kiba whose minds are too strong to escape it"
"uve lost interest cuz tbh team 8 isn't all that interesting"
"however there is not much interesting about a character who sole means of attack is to spin. also one who isn't all that intelligent"
"also feats department they team 8 is lacklustre due to relevance"
"team 8 you got 2 taijutsu users so mainly cqc and 1 mid range ninjutsu user. who jutsu doesn't support his team mates at all"
"neither kiba or hinata have jutsu nor are they smart enough to make a difference"_

Yeah. "Hardly". 



> you are abit worse considering you think 3 headed wolf can defeat someone who actually hit GM and had it lean back.


Except that I never even implied that. Even if I did, it isn't worse than the example I showed of what you've been saying.



> hinata and kiba are basically countered by chouji simply expanding and having a shadow. both prefer cqc which requires they step on chouji shadow to get to chouji.



Which Shino can free them by attacking Shikamaru, who has no defence. Also, preferring a particular method of attack doesn't mean they'd use only that method. Hinata even started off in the war with Vacuum Wall Palm, rather than her usual Gentle Fist. So she could easily opt for Vacuum Palm instead.







Ryuzaki said:


> Butterfly Chouji Stomps, your argument is invalid.



You provided how Choji beats them, that's great, but my argument is still valid. Because it was about having a counter, instead of assuming one can attack an unknown opponent without risk.



> Again, none of them are that fast, if Asuma couldn't dodge it, they aren't going to.


I was looking for a panel of Asuma actually trying to dodge it and was going to point out that when Choji used it, Asuma wanted to be hit, therefore he didn't attempt to move. But maybe you meant this?




Bonly said:


> I was gonna reply to you Ailuro but then I saw you say that Kiba was alot faster then Kakuzu(El-Oh-El) *so there's no point in going forward* with this so good day sir or ma'ma.



I meant that in that panel Kakuzu isn't moving as fast, because when Kiba moves it's a blur. Maybe I misinterpreted that scan, I know Kakuzu is faster overall, but in that scan he doesn't seem to move as fast as Kiba in FoF?  

Bold: Also. This is hardly a fair assumption, because on what basis would you think it be pointless to continue replying to me when above all else, I have been strict on avoiding making unjust replies to your arguments? When you yourself have multiple times made biased arguments on Kiba?


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jul 15, 2015)

Ailuro said:


> You provided how Choji beats them, that's great, but my argument is still valid. Because it was about having a counter, instead of assuming one can attack an unknown opponent without risk.


The match is bloodlusted, which would mean Chouji would grow taller than mountains and stomp them. A bloodlusted Chouji means Team 8 would die before they can do any damage to him.



Ailuro said:


> I was looking for a panel of Asuma actually trying to dodge it and was going to point out that when Choji used it, Asuma wanted to be hit, therefore he didn't attempt to move. But maybe you meant this?


The panel clearly states "No dodging this one..." meaning even if he attempted to, it wouldn't matter. The same thing applies to Team 8.


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 15, 2015)

3 headed puppy got no speed feats at all 
Nothing suggests it moves so fast chouji can't punch it to death 

And don't assume I don't know every single technique of team 8 and every panel they used it in 

Don't assume I am you who doesn't bother to notice how obvious Kishi played the team 10 fan girl 

Shikamaru defeats hidan 

Chouji sees an amalgation of bijuu and can still punch it enough for it to move 

Sorry team 8 simply aren't highligjted in that manner 

What ur implying is no different from saying 1010 can make a difference against chouji


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 15, 2015)

Ailuro said:


> Icegaze
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 





feats of tail chasing being fast to the point chouji cant hit it. ill even allow Db statements





> Didn't imply he'd survived. Just pointed out that Choji's fist has to be fast to connect than Kiba's Tail Chasing.



see above



> I already implied Choji has more destructive power.  I just said his punch only has to connect with Kiba. And while it may be right to ask someone to inquire about a character, you shouldn't expect people to do something you didn't do, since most of your team 10 beats team 8 argument is based mostly on your lack of knowledge for the latter.



see above 


> Also, it's your job to include evidence of claim. Not mine.



see above



> Has Choji ever punched a fast moving target heading his way? A spinning ball being thrown at you doesn't move as fast as Tail Chasing's ferocious speed. You can apply the "wait and hit" tactic to everyone. But it's just baseless without scans.



DB statements or feats of it moving at ferocious speed. otherwise fan girl hype. u imply kiba is too fast to be hit. feel free to prove it



> Shino's bugs quickly move and spread out to take advantage of the entire field. If those bugs happen to be blocking Ino's view of Shino, she can't Shinenshin him. Also, the only time Shino would release his bugs for Ino to see is because he wants her to see them as a distraction for the actual bugs that will be attacking Ino, moving with great secrecy.



ino snippng is quicker than shino bugs ability to spread. 



> Sensing doesn't mean she can react to them, though. They can also emit a small amount of Shino's chakra, creating numerous false 'images' or chakra signals. So all Ino will sense is Shino.



ok



> A half-arsed answer.
> 
> "You'd still have to provide an *actual reasoning* to how Shikamaru counters Shino's brain."
> 
> Shikamaru figuring out Shino is smart, doesn't help him counter his tactics.



being smarter. if am smarter than you, how exactly would you go about using tactics to outsmart me? notice how he outsmarted tayuya. why would shino be any different?

between both shikamaru would have the much much better tactics and quicker plans achieved. shino is an imbecile when compared to shikamaru




> Risky. Unless she can control his insects, they'd be moving for her body. I know she can use the host's jutsu, but it's a different matter that the insects are suddenly being asked by their "master" to stop their attack. Also, there would be insects still inside Shino.  If not, she leaves her body defenseless for the insects attack and they'd be on her before she realises her mistake and reacts.



why? master says stop u stop. whats the point of being the  master if they don't listen? 

insects inside shino does what to ino in shino mind?


> When did I say anything about Hinata's Lion Fists countering Choji's punch? I said "Only Choji in BM mode can possibly counter Kiba's Three-Headed mode". The Hinata part was answer to this " neither kiba or hinata have jutsu".



they have jutsu. I know they do both of which are a lot weaker than BM chouji punch



> You actually went for that?







> _"but considering kiba personality and team 8 general lack of team work"
> "hinata is going to dream of naruto "
> "which catches kiba who clearly can be fooled by such as he is no smarter than hidan"
> "but its shino, hinata and kiba whose minds are too strong to escape it"
> ...



feel free to explain how their minds are stronger than kinaku's then we will talk. till then 

QUOTE]


----------



## Punished Kiba (Jul 15, 2015)

These responses are tempting me to make a comeback to this thread lol

Plus, some stuff have already been refuted but are being addressed again .

Should I make my comeback ?


----------



## TheEnemy (Jul 16, 2015)

KingForever7 said:


> Note: They're in their *Adult (the Last)* versions
> 
> Note 2: Extra Feats from the Novels, Kiba and Choji are shown destroying meteorites during the events of the Last.
> 
> ...



If we count the Last then we count it to the end, meaning Hinata calls her new husband who isn't restricted and Naruto handles them.

I could honestly see it go either way, bloodlusted means the teamwork is going to be really hard. It truly depends on if Shikamaru can catch on to Shino quick enough. If he does, Shika's team wins if not then Shino's team win. Not much they can do vs Shino's wide array of bugs if they get caught.


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jul 16, 2015)

TheEnemy said:


> If we count the Last then we count it to the end, meaning Hinata calls her new husband who isn't restricted and Naruto handles them.
> 
> I could honestly see it go either way, bloodlusted means the teamwork is going to be really hard. It truly depends on if Shikamaru can catch on to Shino quick enough. If he does, Shika's team wins if not then Shino's team win. Not much they can do vs Shino's wide array of bugs if they get caught.


Yeah pretty positive that she was never able to summon Naruto.


----------



## Ailuro (Jul 16, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> The match is bloodlusted, which would mean Chouji would grow taller than mountains and stomp them. A bloodlusted Chouji means Team 8 would die before they can do any damage to him.



Since he's the size of a mountain, he greatly risks stomping on his own team mates. Assuming he gives a shit to not step on them. Since they're blood lusted, I'm sure they'd be on the attack as well.

That said, Team 8 will be moving to attack at the same time Choji is growing taller and lifting his foot up to stomp on them.

I'd wager a guess that Hinata's Twin Lion Fists (covers great distance, destructive power and drains chakra when it touches) could do some damage. It doesn't seem to take her long to charge it up and leap into action. Likewise, Shino's insects can cover great distances and can drain chakra at an overwhelming rate. Since he can attack from afar he can increase his distance away from Choji. Kiba's Three-Heads take too much prep to be used as a fast attack in this situation, though.



> The panel clearly states "No dodging this one..." meaning even if he attempted to, it wouldn't matter. The same thing applies to Team 8.



Kakashi once said "Avoiding all of those bugs simply isn't possible". Yet people still discuss it can be avoided. So using that a character's words determines the outcome, Shino would capture all of T10 without a doubt.

You can't make a defiant win based on the hype of a character's words.

Icegaze

*Spoiler*: __ 





Icegaze said:


> 3 headed puppy got no speed feats at all
> Nothing suggests it moves so fast chouji can't punch it to death



No speed feats at all. Uh-huh. This does suggest that it's too fast for Choji to punch before getting hit himself.



> And don't assume I don't know every single technique of team 8 and every panel they used it in



You didn't know Shikamaru's shadow couldn't keep Shino from attacking. His insects can confuse chakra signals. Hinata's Air Palm does more than deflect, it also attacks the vital organs. Lions Fist covers great distance, has increased power and drains the chakra of those it touches. That Shino could still "see" despite a flash bomb. You thought Ino could Shintenshin his clone,  when it's made up of hundreds of individual bugs. Kiba's smoke bombs and exploding fake Akamaru. You didn't know any of this.



> Don't assume I am you who doesn't bother to notice how obvious Kishi played the team 10 fan girl







> What ur implying is no different from saying 1010 can make a difference against chouji



You need better reading comprehension if that's the implication you got.

You who puts more value in panel time > actual skills/feats. As well as your own personally issues with Team 8.

Shikamaru had prep for Hidan and you still haven't given evidence Choji can punch faster than Kiba can Tail Chase him. There was never any disagreement on my part that if he hits it'll kill Kiba.




Icegaze said:


> feats of tail chasing being fast to the point chouji cant hit it. ill even allow Db statements.
> 
> DB statements or feats of it moving at ferocious speed. otherwise fan girl hype. u imply kiba is too fast to be hit. feel free to prove it



I already showed you the panel of it moving in ferocious speeds. 

The panel shows it moves at a blur. Which Choji's fist does not.



> ino snippng is quicker than shino bugs ability to spread.



They won't need to spread, as he only needs to use them to shield himself from her view.



> being smarter. if am smarter than you, how exactly would you go about using tactics to outsmart me? notice how he outsmarted tayuya. why would shino be any different?



Because Shino is different to Tayuya. Shikamaru outsmarted her by breaking his finger, the pain snapped him from the horrible Genjutsu he was in. Which won't work on Shino. Shikamaru's tactics involves preparation. If he doesn't have the right tools, jutsu, time, teammates and so on, he can't execute his plan.

If you can apply your reasoning to "Shikamaru is smarter than Shino" then one could easily apply to any given situation. It be X is smarter than Y. Y is faster than Z.

What tools did Shikamaru have? He can't catch Shino in a shadow and Shino can see through a flash bomb. He'd have to plan at the same time T8 is attacking.

You actually need to come up with the tactics yourself, instead of falling on the cheap reply of "he's smarter".



> between both shikamaru would have the much much better tactics and quicker plans achieved. shino is an imbecile when compared to shikamaru



I didn't think we were debating who was smarter. That said, Shino's tactic don't seem to be all that much lower than Shikamaru's. In fact, his fastest tactic is before a match even started. Mind you, this was before he even saw his opponent's jutsu. Yet he knew what it did, knew he could survive it being blasted to his skull, knew his bugs could stop it.

Shino had knowledge and a counter to an opponent's jutsu he never saw in an instant.

Against Kankuro.
Shino is quick to work out that Kankuro can't handle close combat. He notes that it leaves Kankuro wide open, because he has to concentrate when he uses his jutsu.

Note that he says "that's why I think you can't handle close combat...". Which means he had a hunch what Kankuro's weakness was. He made that observation just by watching Kankuro attempt to hit him a couple of times. Adding to that, he already devised a tactic to counter Kankuro.

Remember that in his previous fight, Shino tanked and countered a jutsu he never saw. He seems good at predicting an oncoming attack and counting it quickly as he does the same with Kankuro when he avoids two attacks he had no warning for. Here Shino didn't know that Karasu is riddled with secret traps and hidden weaponry.

So, while he isn't as smart as Shikamaru, he has shown that his can quickly observe an opponent's weakness and provide the counter for it. And that he is no only quick in mind, but in evasiveness and reaction.



> why? master says stop u stop. whats the point of being the  master if they don't listen?



The Aburame and Kikaichu have a mutually beneficial relationship. As in return for allowing them to feed on their chakra, the host can command the insects as they want. Ino would have to understand this relationship. Remember it's a foreign body. It's different from shouting "stop your attack!".

She still needs the target to be briefly immobilised before she can use her jutsu. No matter how fast it is. Her opponents have always been trapped or distracted. Shino will be on the move and his insects spread out, blocking her view. And she certainly can't sense him.

Ino runs the risk of sniping an insect or even if successful leaving her defenceless to Kiba or Hinata. Kiba who most likely would have gone Three-Headed mode.




> insects inside shino does what to ino in shino mind?



Sorry about that. I lost my train of thought.





> feel free to explain how their minds are stronger than kinaku's then we will talk. till then



Are you telling me that you're salty? 

Noticed that you didn't protest to me proving you use too much trifling arguments.




KingForever7 said:


> Plus, some stuff have already been refuted but are being addressed again .
> 
> Should I make my comeback ?



They're still underestimating Shino, underutilising Hinata and making Kiba seem like a complete moron. So if you do comeback, prepare yourself. Oh, and watch out for personal attacks when they can't come up with a better response.


----------



## TheEnemy (Jul 16, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> Yeah pretty positive that she was never able to summon Naruto.



Yeah I know, that's why I said phone call. It's not like he's like Sasuke and lets the battery die 


Seriously though on topic, Shino has this bug that if fed the wrong amount of chakra it devours the user's flesh. You don't figure that shit out until it's too late and he monologues. If that bug gets on any member of the opposing team that person is as good as dead. He also has another bug his classic bugs that eat away at your chakra. 15 meters isn't exactly a huge distance, close enough that they could be easily in range of the 64 palm and have their chakra sealed completely. BL Choji rushing in and getting 64 palmed is extremely likely, unless his teammates react fast enough or Choji hitting a bug clone by Shino will prove deadly! 

Choji is their powerhouse and can bully them BUT only if his team backs him up perfectly as in Shika knows not to waste his shadow binding on Shino since it'll really be the bugs doing the work and instead have Ino in Shino with mind body switch. If she misses though, I think it takes a second for her to come back to her body...with "normal" scenario I would give it to Shika and his team but with these conditions, they're BL so Shika taking his time to come up with a plan is not happening especially not with this distance and the other side up to their throats. 

TL;DR version: Shika and Ino won't be able to provide proper backup to Choji due to the conditions which will cause their downfall.


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 16, 2015)

Ailuro said:


> Icegaze
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 16, 2015)

For a better understanding of why shikamaru can catch kiba or anyone on team 8 1 on 1 
feel free to read chapter 335

shikamaru came up with that idea off the bat. no planning there and his enemy not only had knowledge said enemy 

puts the entire team 8 to dust. from portrayal, cqc ability everything really 

bar shino who is smarter than him.


----------



## Punished Kiba (Jul 16, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> For a better understanding of why shikamaru can catch kiba or anyone on team 8 1 on 1
> feel free to read chapter 335
> 
> shikamaru came up with that idea off the bat. no planning there and his enemy not only had knowledge said enemy
> ...



Firstly, It was still their *second encounter * 

Secondly, Shikamaru had alot, ALOT of Time to assess and evaluate  Hidan and Kakauzu's Skills, abilities and mindset after his Failed First encounter (Plus he isn't the type to just formulate one strategy, he'll come up with loads of strategies *if he knows his opponents well*

(*Sigh* I dunno if you realise, but when I made the "Shikamaru vs Hidan" post, I was directly reffering to this chapter )

Thirdly, That strategy wouldn't have worked if Shikamaru didn't know his opponent and his movements well.

Lastly, A  strategy like this would never work on Team 8 unless Shika knew about their Sensory perception beforehand.


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 16, 2015)

> KingForever7 said:
> 
> 
> > Firstly, It was still their *second encounter *
> ...


----------



## Punished Kiba (Jul 16, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> which means hidan had knowledge.


Shikamaru was smarter than Hidan (I think I've said this many times ). This gave Shikamaru a huge advantage in their *second encounter* as he can think ahead of Hidan as he knows more about him.

If you remember Shikamaru was also evaluating Hidan while he was fighting Asuma in the* First encounter*. Plus Hidan wasn't even focused much on Shikamaru in the *First encounter*......It was a 4 on 2

So without Knowledge, Shikamaru and co. were screwed (even tho it was a 4 on 2)
With Knowledge, Shikamaru was be able to outsmart them, knowing how they fought from the previous encounter.




Icegaze said:


> good which he can do quickly



Yep, Quickly (with knowledge before hand)





Icegaze said:


> so what u saying is he knew hidan movement so well he could predict him?
> 
> if not don't get how its even reasonable to downplay 2 opponents with knowledge of each other here. which hidan very clearly had. he was simply outsmarted by shikamaru
> 
> ...



Read what I said above ^^^^^^

It doesn't matter if the opponent is Faster/stronger than Shika, If Shika has *knowledge before hand* on how they fight, He would most likely outsmart them from pre-planning and quicker assessment (with the extra knowledge)

We've already seen what happened when Shika had no knowledge.....Asuma got killed and the rest of his team almost got Killed if back-up didn't arrive.


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 16, 2015)

shikamaru needed knowledge to outplay a superior opponent 

no one in team 8 is portrayed implied or even assumed to be superior so why would he need planning and knowledge to outsmart them?

the only reason the likes of shino can beat hidan and that's debatable is due to a massive type advantage.

ps: perhaps I have underestimated tail chasing fang 

not a bad jutsu at least from what DB says.


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jul 16, 2015)

Ailuro said:


> *Since he's the size of a mountain*, he greatly risks stomping on his own team mates. As*suming he gives a shit to not step on them. *Since they're blood lusted, I'm sure they'd be on the attack as well.
> 
> That said, Team 8 will be moving to attack at the same time Choji is growing taller and lifting his foot up to stomp on them.


He had no trouble becoming a mountain and not killing an army of his own people. He's not going to have a problem here either. 

Bloodlusted Butterfly Chouji stomps 



Ailuro said:


> I'd *wager a guess *that Hinata's Twin Lion Fists (covers great distance, destructive power and drains chakra when it touches) could do some damage. It doesn't seem to take her long to charge it up and leap into action. Likewise, Shino's insects can cover great distances and can drain chakra at an overwhelming rate. Since he can attack from afar he can increase his distance away from Choji. Kiba's Three-Heads take too much prep to be used as a fast attack in this situation, though.


Pure speculation, not enough proof to substantiate your claim.


----------



## Ailuro (Jul 17, 2015)

Icegaze


*Spoiler*: __ 





Icegaze said:


> how does it? nothing in that panel shows or is implied to be too fast for chouji to react to



The panel that says "Tail Chaser's" shows that Kiba/Akamaru spin at a ferocious speed that they become a blur, efficiently closing the distance from their starting position to the target.

You have shown nothing that implies Choji is fast enough to punch it.




> i did. doesnt help him against ino who can still mind fuck him



What does "Ino can still mind fuck him" have anything to do with you saying "don't assume I don't know every single technique of team 8"? When obviously you didn't know.



> only an idiot would think that having more panel time doesnt give u more feats *and a chance* to display actual skills which team 10 have far more than team 8



Do you see the bold? A CHANCE. Do you know what a chance is? It's a possibility of something happening. Ergo, not certain to happen. Both teams have displayed actual skills and feats, who has the most is irrelevant. It's just a matter of which ability and skill to best use.

Clearly panel time isn't an issue for T8 because I already countered most of T10's attacks.



> and hidan had knowledge. try not to forget that



How is that relevant here? Shikamaru would have died without that prep time to beat Hidan.



> u provide some evidence to say kiba is moving too fast for chouji to strike. little doggy got no feats or hype to suggest chouji cant crush him



So to clarify, you're saying I DID provide some evidence to at least suggest Kiba is too fast for Choji to strike, BUT if Choji hits him Kiba has no feat suggesting he'd survive it? Did I get that right? Because if so, then I have proven my argument. My argument wasn't to show that Kiba could survive Choji's fist IF it hit him. It was to show that Kiba could be too fast for Choji to hit him before being hit himself.



> u showed me a spinning dog. where are the panels saying its moving at ferocious speed or Db hype?



Hang on. What? "where are the panels saying its moving at ferocious speed"? Do you want... a text saying it? One of the other characters saying it? Unless you're blind or just a biased idiot, you can clearly see that it spins so fast it becomes a blur. It's also common knowledge what Kiba's primary method of attack is: enhanced speed, strength and agility.



> still slower than ino ability to snipe him considering her feats.



Except that Ino wouldn't know he'd be sending out his insects. He raises his arms and the insects instantly start swarming out. Even if they're slower reaching her, they're still fast enough to be out and shielding Shino from Ino's view.

Not only that, but even though it is only a few seconds, Ino still needs her target immobilised so that she can focus on them and she still needs her body protected.

Hinata could even engage Ino in close range. Her Lions Fists has increased range, destructive power and drains the chakra of those it touches. Ino wouldn't have the time to focus a Shintenshin, as she has to avoid Hinata's constant attacks.



> still less smart than shikamaru.



"But Shikamaru is smaaaaaaarter!" 

Still irrelevant if you can't provide a possible tactic for Shikamaru to catch Shino is his shadow and deal with the insects that will retaliate. All you did was state the obvious: Shikamaru is smarter. You have no argument.



> shikamaru is smarter than his enemies he will outsmart them.



Yes, he'll outsmart most, if not all, of his enemies, but a tactic relies on having the right tools and jutsu. Since this is a no knowledge fight, Shikamaru wouldn't have had preparation to plan what he should do once it's evident he can't hold Shino in his shadow. In fact, a bloodthirsty Shino could just swarm him with insects and that's that. They'd be on him too fast for him to react.



> lol, someone doesnt read the manga. he attacked hidan while figuring out his ritual which is far more complicated than the combination of team 8 jutsu put together



No, he figured out Hidan's ritual when Hidan attacked Asuma.

Hidan and Asuma exchange blows, Hidan managed to acquire blood from Asuma and initiate his ritual at the same time Asuma used Ash Pile Burning. Now here is a good example of how risky it is to try and attack an opponent without knowing their abilities, because Asuma ended up with third degree burns. Asuma, who doesn't realise what is going on, goes to attack again and falls in pain when Hidan stabs his own leg. This is when Shikamaru realises that any injury inflicted on Hidan, whether by himself or by the victim he is linked to, is reciprocated to the victim.

Shikamaru works out, from analysing Hidan's actions and his words earlier, that Hidan needs to be in the circle for his jutsu to work and that he requires a sample of the target's blood. Shikamaru Shadows Hidan, freeing Asuma from the curse and Asuma tests it by slicing his own ear. Then he decapitates Hidan. But no, turns out that this doesn't kill Hidan. Well, shit... Kakuzu reattaches his head, Hidan re-enters his circle and stabs himself in the gut, severally injury Asuma, before stabbing himself through the heart, killing Asuma. .

You seem to be ignoring how much risk, knowledge and preparation Shikamaru needed to kill Hidan. You can't compare Shikamaru's fight with Hidan to determine he'll beat Shino. Yes, Shikamaru is tactical genius, but Hidan is a different opponent to Shino. He is arrogant, frequently engages opponents with no regard for strategy and admits to not being very intelligent. Although he was able to analyse the length of Shikamaru's Shadow. That played a part in Shikamaru being able to defeat him. As well as having a second chance to do so. Shikamaru even had to lead Hidan to a area best suited to defeat him.

Now apply all that to Shikamaru vs Shino. It could go...

- Shikamaru tells Shino is smart just by looking at him. Which makes no sense to me, but moving on.
- Shikamaru somehow (still need to explain how he does this) manipulates Shino into his shadow. Now Shino is stuck.
- But his bugs can still attack. They swarm Shikamaru and finish him off.

I mentioned this before and you've yet to provide a counter to this scenario if it happens.

So, yeah, I read the manga.




> am not shikamaru. he is smarter my argument is he will outsmart shino not the other way round. only a noob would think shikamaru gets outsmarted here



 I have no problem understanding your argument. You, however, have a problem with comprehending what you're being told. In what part of my reply did I even insinuate that Shino is smarter than Shikamaru or that Shikamaru would be outsmarted? Sure Shikamaru is smarter, but not only is Shino smart himself (therefore wouldn't be catch so easily), his jutsu has the advantage of being able to still function even if the host is immobilised.

Let me remind you that near the beginning of this thread you came up with the idea that Shikamaru could use giant Choji's shadow to trap T8. It wouldn't have worked, because Shino can still attack, but you still came up with a possible strategy. At least you tried.

Arguably, Shikamaru's intelligence isn't even that impressive. Sometimes Shikamaru's opponent is a frickin' idiot and is too arrogant (Kin and Hidan). Other times his tactic requires Kishimoto to bend the laws of physics (making his shadow longer vs Temari by tying a kunai to his jacket when the kunai would have been too heavy / somehow being fast enough to place Kakuzu's blood on Hidan's blade while evading it at the same time). Or Shikamaru has to analyse the jutsu being used on someone else (again Hidan - vs Asuma).

Point is, while Shikamaru is smarter than Shino, there are different factors to count.



> he isnt as smart. so i dont get all the bla bla. he cant outsmart someone much smarter than himself



It shows he's smart enough to work out someone's skill and provide a counter in a short amount of time. Because of this, even though Shikamaru is smarter, he still has to take into account that his opponent is no fool. At times he has had to fall back in order to come up with a strategy (Temari and Tayuya).

You don't seem to realise that it is possible to win against someone who is smarter than you. As my argument wasn't to say Shino outsmarts Shikamaru. Kidomaru was smarter than Neji and would be smarter than Shino (I think). He's an excellent tactical analyser, but he lost because he spent too much time playing with his opponent and underestimating them. It's not just about being smarter. You also need to consider the opponent's personality and skill.




> ino diverted juubi attack by controlling obito. same thign happens here. obito control of juubi would have been the same as shino and his bugs



If this is the case then I apologise. Still not an issue for Shino anyway. Ino caught Obito off guard and she had support. Ino's target has to be imobilised, even briefly, and Shino and his insects will be on the move, constantly pursuing Ino who won't have time to pause.



> zetsu clones were running at her. as a genin she caught sakura by herself so she wont have an issue here



Yeah, because Shino is the same as a Zetsu clone and Sakura. 

Firstly, Shino wouldn't be running at her. He doesn't need to since he can attack from a distance. Secondly, she caught Sakura by pretending to be effected by Sakura's trash talking.

And you make it sound like catching CE Genin Sakura was some big feat. The fact that she fooled even her own team mates, she FOOLED SHIKAMARU, is what's impressive. 




> lol not when her technique is the fastest thing here. lol doggy gets punched by chouji. again no feats of it being too fast for chouji to slap away



I already replied to this before in this same post, so I'll wait for you to respond.

But here's something you keep ignoring. Ino's Mind Body Switch and Mind Clone switch *leaves her defenceless*. Shikamaru always has to be there to back her up. Where is he here?




> didnt know u had one



Childish insult. So cute. 




> she caught obito and kinkaku and mind violated them. she plays with these chumps minds. no issues. unless u want to explain how obito with rinnegan and sharingan and how a V2 jin can get mind fucked but shino cant



You need the ability to comprehend what's been explained to you, which clearly you don't have. Because you still can't grasp that I'm not telling you Shino will break out of her Mind Control Iif she catches him. "If" being the key word.

You overrate Ino and choose to ignore the circumstances of how she caught Obito and Kinkazu. Obito was caught off guard by trying to use the Ten-Tails kill his enemies and did not expect the Allied Forces to arrive at that moment. The second time she caught Obito was when the Akimichi clan stopped the Ten Tails movements. This time she needed Shikamaru. Kinkaku was caught because after he broke free of Shikamaru's Shadow he ignored everyone else to kill Shikamaru. Which Ino took advantage of.

Are you sure you read the manga?



> unless u can provide feats of anythign team 8 have moving so fast naruto comments on its speed.



Yes, it was fast. But nice of you to ignore that Ino still had to wait until the Ten Tails was restricted, caught Obito when he was prepared again and Shikamaru was by her side.

But hey, if you need a comment. Here's Kakashi stating that avoiding all those bugs simply isn't possible. And look at how impressed Naruto is. Yes, they don't talk about it being fast, but that would be splitting hairs. If your argument is based on Ino being able to catch Shino because of a simple comment by Naruto, then I can apply the same reasoning that Shino's insects catch her because of Kakashi's comment.

But I'm at least aware of the different circumstances.



> or maybe u think any of them could have hit kinkaku before he crushed chouji. mind trasnfer is that fast.



Considering that Ino took advantage of when Kinkaku was trying to attack Shikamaru.



> the only one who would be able to see the chakra moving towards them is hinata. so shino and kiba are victims here



Shino's bugs would at least be able to sense chakra and Kiba is incredibly fast.




> kiba is a moron though. thats kishi doing



Hidan is a moron and you're still trying to tell me it's impressive how Shikamaru defeated him. Your logic. 

Yeah, Kiba can be a moron, due to his impulsiveness. But he has also been shown to be able to trick his opponent with a fake exploding Akamaru and take advantage of Smoke Bombs.






> much



Stop telling me that you're salty. I get it.




Ryuzaki said:


> He had no trouble becoming a mountain and not killing an army of his own people. He's not going to have a problem here either.



Maybe because there wasn't anyone else nearby? The fight also starts at 15 metres.




> Pure speculation, not enough proof to substantiate your claim.



What's this "substantiate your claim" bullshit? "I'd wager a guess" means something that's staked on an *uncertain* outcome. So, no, I didn't make my claim to be supported by truth of evidence.


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## Ryuzaki (Jul 17, 2015)

Ailuro said:


> Maybe because there wasn't anyone else nearby? The fight also starts at 15 metres.


Shikamaru was right next to him as he was trying to stop Tobi at the time and there are a few others right next to him as well.



Ailuro said:


> What's this "substantiate your claim" bullshit? "I'd wager a guess" means something that's staked on an *uncertain* outcome. So, no, I didn't make my claim to be supported by truth of evidence.



For instance, you guess that Two Lion Fists has a large array of destruction, however, there isn't enough of evidence in the manga to support such a claim. That is pure speculation because we haven't seen an attack like that previously, what would make this more credible is if it's an attack that we've seen and she uses it.


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## Icegaze (Jul 17, 2015)

Ailuro said:


> Icegaze
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 





the panel shows kiba spinning. none of that indicates its too fast for chouji to punch. did anyone mention its speed. u cant just make shit up. 

u got nothing to say its too fast for chouji to punch it. so why assume he cant?




> What does "Ino can still mind fuck him" have anything to do with you saying "don't assume I don't know every single technique of team 8"? When obviously you didn't know.



lol  i do. would u like me to list them. 



> Do you see the bold? A CHANCE. Do you know what a chance is? It's a possibility of something happening. Ergo, not certain to happen. Both teams have displayed actual skills and feats, who has the most is irrelevant. It's just a matter of which ability and skill to best use.



never said team 8 dont stand a chance. they would just win less often. so moot point 



> Clearly panel time isn't an issue for T8 because I already countered most of T10's attacks.








> How is that relevant here? Shikamaru would have died without that prep time to beat Hidan.



 hidan had knowledge though. lets not make it sound like shikamaru had prep against an opponent with no knowledge



> So to clarify, you're saying I DID provide some evidence to at least suggest Kiba is too fast for Choji to strike, BUT if Choji hits him Kiba has no feat suggesting he'd survive it? Did I get that right? Because if so, then I have proven my argument. My argument wasn't to show that Kiba could survive Choji's fist IF it hit him. It was to show that Kiba could be too fast for Choji to hit him before being hit himself.



 u didnt though. u showed me a dog spinning. how does that indicate its too fast for chouji?




> Hang on. What? "where are the panels saying its moving at ferocious speed"? Do you want... a text saying it? One of the other characters saying it? Unless you're blind or just a biased idiot, you can clearly see that it spins so fast it becomes a blur. It's also common knowledge what Kiba's primary method of attack is: enhanced speed, strength and agility.



yes actually. if kishi wanted to hype its speed. he will have someone mention it being super fast. none of that was mentioned. its like me showing u a scan of chouji punch and saying chouji is moving at ferocious speed 

or chouji spiky meat tank and me saying chouji is moving at ferocious speeds.  that wasnt a blur 

are u also saying if a blur isnt shown then that means said person isnt moving at ferocious speeds?




> Except that Ino wouldn't know he'd be sending out his insects. He raises his arms and the insects instantly start swarming out. Even if they're slower reaching her, they're still fast enough to be out and shielding Shino from Ino's view.



she doesnt need to know. she only needs to snipe. she can see his bugs. he cant see her attack 



> Not at, but even though it is only a few seconds, Ino still needs her target immobilised so that she can focus on them and she still needs her body protected.only th


??  u didnt finish ur thought her. 

her target doesnt need to be immoblized. kinkaku wasnt he was attackign shikamaru. it means if shino stands still for an instant too long while thinking let me bug drain someone he gets sniped



> Hinata could even engage Ino in close range. Her Lions Fists has increased range, destructive power and drains the chakra of those it touches. Ino wouldn't have the time to focus a Shintenshin, as she has to avoid Hinata's constant attacks.



she could. however what happens if shikamaru gives her his shadow chakra knife. hinata got no reason to avoid a knife thrown by ino by such a distance that her shadow wont be caught. 

also what happens if shikamaru attaches his shadow to ino? once hinata comes close she gets caught 






> "But Shikamaru is smaaaaaaarter!"



. blame kishi. he is therefore he wont be outsmarted he will outsmart 



> Still irrelevant if you can't provide a possible tactic for Shikamaru to catch Shino is his shadow and deal with the insects that will retaliate. All you did was state the obvious: Shikamaru is smarter. You have no argument.



 am not shikamaru. and am not writing the battle out. i say shikamaru outsmarts because the author implied by all accounts that he is far smarter 




> Yes, he'll outsmart most, if not all, of his enemies, but a tactic relies on having the right tools and jutsu. Since this is a no knowledge fight, Shikamaru wouldn't have had preparation to plan what he should do once it's evident he can't hold Shino in his shadow. In fact, a bloodthirsty Shino could just swarm him with insects and that's that. They'd be on him too fast for him to react.



 all 



> No, he figured out Hidan's ritual when Hidan attacked Asuma


.

which no one else on his team coudl do nearly as quick or even come up with a solution. unless u think shino is smarter than asuma as well 


> Hidan and Asuma exchange blows, Hidan managed to acquire blood from Asuma and initiate his ritual at the same time Asuma used Ash Pile Burning. Now here is a good example of how risky it is to try and attack an opponent without knowing their abilities, because Asuma ended up with third degree burns. Asuma, who doesn't realise what is going on, goes to attack again and falls in pain when Hidan stabs his own leg. This is when Shikamaru realises that any injury inflicted on Hidan, whether by himself or by the victim he is linked to, is reciprocated to the victim.



i read the manga thanks 



> Shikamaru works out, from analysing Hidan's actions and his words earlier, that Hidan needs to be in the circle for his jutsu to work and that he requires a sample of the target's blood. Shikamaru Shadows Hidan, freeing Asuma from the curse and Asuma tests it by slicing his own ear. Then he decapitates Hidan. But no, turns out that this doesn't kill Hidan. Well, shit... Kakuzu reattaches his head, Hidan re-enters his circle and stabs himself in the gut, severally injury Asuma, before stabbing himself through the heart, killing Asuma. .


 see above 



> You seem to be ignoring how much risk, knowledge and preparation Shikamaru needed to kill Hidan. You can't compare Shikamaru's fight with Hidan to determine he'll beat Shino. Yes, Shikamaru is tactical genius, but Hidan is a different opponent to Shino. He is arrogant, frequently engages opponents with no regard for strategy and admits to not being very intelligent. Although he was able to analyse the length of Shikamaru's Shadow. That played a part in Shikamaru being able to defeat him. As well as having a second chance to do so. Shikamaru even had to lead Hidan to a area best suited to defeat him.



sure i can. i can also bring up the tayuya fight were he had no knowledge and a clear disadvantage due to the power difference between him and his enemy. yet he still horribly outsmarted his enemy 



> Now apply all that to Shikamaru vs Shino. It could go...
> 
> - Shikamaru tells Shino is smart just by looking at him. Which makes no sense to me, but moving on.
> - Shikamaru somehow (still need to explain how he does this) manipulates Shino into his shadow. Now Shino is stuck.
> ...



. this isnt story telling fan fic section its the Battledome




> I have no problem understanding your argument. You, however, have a problem with comprehending what you're being told. In what part of my reply did I even insinuate that Shino is smarter than Shikamaru or that Shikamaru would be outsmarted? Sure Shikamaru is smarter, but not only is Shino smart himself (therefore wouldn't be catch so easily), his jutsu has the advantage of being able to still function even if the host is immobilised.



lol


> Let me remind you that near the beginning of this thread you came up with the idea that Shikamaru could use giant Choji's shadow to trap T8. It wouldn't have worked, because Shino can still attack, but you still came up with a possible strategy. At least you tried.



lol shino can still attack. and shikamaru can use kagenui to skewer shino. wonder if his bugs would attack when shino is dead with holes in him. 

someone forgot about that didnt he 



> Arguably, Shikamaru's intelligence isn't even that impressive. Sometimes Shikamaru's opponent is a frickin' idiot and is too arrogant (Kin and Hidan). Other times his tactic requires Kishimoto to bend the laws of physics (making his shadow longer vs Temari by tying a kunai to his jacket when the kunai would have been too heavy / somehow being fast enough to place Kakuzu's blood on Hidan's blade while evading it at the same time). Or Shikamaru has to analyse the jutsu being used on someone else (again Hidan - vs Asuma).



.....



> Point is, while Shikamaru is smarter than Shino, there are different factors to count.



agreed.




> It shows he's smart enough to work out someone's skill and provide a counter in a short amount of time. Because of this, even though Shikamaru is smarter, he still has to take into account that his opponent is no fool. At times he has had to fall back in order to come up with a strategy (Temari and Tayuya).



yup. and he cant fall back here? i didnt know that. lol 



> You don't seem to realise that it is possible to win against someone who is smarter than you. As my argument wasn't to say Shino outsmarts Shikamaru. Kidomaru was smarter than Neji and would be smarter than Shino (I think). He's an excellent tactical analyser, but he lost because he spent too much time playing with his opponent and underestimating them. It's not just about being smarter. You also need to consider the opponent's personality and skill.




ok



> If this is the case then I apologise. Still not an issue for Shino anyway. Ino caught Obito off guard and she had support. Ino's target has to be imobilised, even briefly, and Shino and his insects will be on the move, constantly pursuing Ino who won't have time to pause.



i accept your apology



> Yeah, because Shino is the same as a Zetsu clone and Sakura.



yup. he isnt immune to shintenshin. not when obito and kinkaku arent 



> Firstly, Shino wouldn't be running at her. He doesn't need to since he can attack from a distance. Secondly, she caught Sakura by pretending to be effected by Sakura's trash talking.



kinakaku wasnt either. he attacked someone without paying attention to her. and he was trolled. 



> And you make it sound like catching CE Genin Sakura was some big feat. The fact that she fooled even her own team mates, she FOOLED SHIKAMARU, is what's impressive.



i dont get the capital letters purpose. was shikamaru fighting her. she surprised him. nice try 

kinakaku isnt a genin though




> I already replied to this before in this same post, so I'll wait for you to respond.



i have 



> But here's something you keep ignoring. Ino's Mind Body Switch and Mind Clone switch *leaves her defenceless*. Shikamaru always has to be there to back her up. Where is he here?



odd i didnt know she didnt have team members. it also leaves the host body she takes a hostage. do u think kiba will keep fighting if hinata is holding a kunai to her own neck?





> Childish insult. So cute.



more salt 




> You need the ability to comprehend what's been explained to you, which clearly you don't have. Because you still can't grasp that I'm not telling you Shino will break out of her Mind Control Iif she catches him. "If" being the key word.



see above 



> You overrate Ino and choose to ignore the circumstances of how she caught Obito and Kinkazu. Obito was caught off guard by trying to use the Ten-Tails kill his enemies and did not expect the Allied Forces to arrive at that moment. The second time she caught Obito was when the Akimichi clan stopped the Ten Tails movements. This time she needed Shikamaru. Kinkaku was caught because after he broke free of Shikamaru's Shadow he ignored everyone else to kill Shikamaru. Which Ino took advantage of.



so u can guarantee no one in team 8 even for a brief second would ignore ino. btw she was right behind shikamaru. kinakaku would have seen her 



> Are you sure you read the manga?



. the guy hyping team  8 asking me that 



> Yes, it was fast. But nice of you to ignore that Ino still had to wait until the Ten Tails was restricted, caught Obito when he was prepared again and Shikamaru was by her side.



it was fast. is where i stopped 



> But hey, if you need a comment. Here's Kakashi stating that avoiding all those bugs simply isn't possible. And look at how impressed Naruto is. Yes, they don't talk about it being fast, but that would be splitting hairs. If your argument is based on Ino being able to catch Shino because of a simple comment by Naruto, then I can apply the same reasoning that Shino's insects catch her because of Kakashi's comment.



i know. never implied they would be avoiding any or all of them. ...now u actually bringing something up. only part of ur post makes sense 



> But I'm at least aware of the different circumstances.



lol if u think so



> Considering that Ino took advantage of when Kinkaku was trying to attack Shikamaru.



and here team 8 would never try to attack shikamaru? without paying attention to ino? notice a spinning dog coming at them is a prime target for ino shintenshin. he will be coming in a straight line at them. 






> Shino's bugs would at least be able to sense chakra and Kiba is incredibly fast.



. since when were his bugs able to sense someone is fast?




> Hidan is a moron and you're still trying to tell me it's impressive how Shikamaru defeated him. Your logic.



kiba is as well. just saying 




> Yeah, Kiba can be a moron, due to his impulsiveness. But he has also been shown to be able to trick his opponent with a fake exploding Akamaru and take advantage of Smoke Bombs.






so u agree he is a moron. concession accepted. btw spinning dog in a straight line gets sniped by ino



> Stop telling me that you're salty. I get it.







> Maybe because there wasn't anyone else nearby? The fight also starts at 15 metres.



 so if chouji expands to a 100m giant i wonder how quick these guys will be able to get away to avoid being caught in his shadow 





> What's this "substantiate your claim" bullshit? "I'd wager a guess" means something that's staked on an *uncertain* outcome. So, no, I didn't make my claim to be supported by truth of evidence.



bla bla bla bla
....when u saying something let me know


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