# Double-Rinnegan SM Madara Vs DMS Kakashi.



## Android (Apr 25, 2019)

Location: grassy field.
Knowledge: canon.
Restrictions: Non.
Initial distance: 60 ft.

Madara is alive and has his two eyes and Hashiramas Sage mode.

Who wins ?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 25, 2019)

Limbo one-shots since it can't be sensed or seen by this Kakashi.
Madara's PS would demolish Kakashi's since it's powered up by the real Rinnegan, rikudo chakra, plus Sage Mode, plus Madara's own Indra chakra, compared to Kakashi only having a recycled  fragment of Obito's six paths chakra.
ST and Preta deal with Kamui warp attemps.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Android (Apr 25, 2019)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> Limbo one-shots since it can't be sensed or seen by this Kakashi.
> Madara's PS would demolish Kakashi's since it's powered up by the real Rinnegan, rikudo chakra, plus Sage Mode, plus Madara's own Indra chakra, compared to Kakashi only having a recycled  fragment of Obito's six paths chakra.
> ST and Preta deal with Kamui warp attemps.


I agree completely. And shouldn't Kyosu Enbu be able to counter Kamui Shurikens ?


----------



## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 25, 2019)

Android said:


> I agree completely. And shouldn't Kyosu Enbu be able to counter Kamui Shurikens ?



Yes, i think any type of long-range projectile that's large and fast enough should be able to deal with that, even if i usually don't give Kurama to this version of Madara. Large scale ST should work as well.


----------



## Android (Apr 25, 2019)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> Yes, i think any type of long-range projectile that's large and fast enough should be able to deal with that, even if i usually don't give Kurama to this version of Madara.


Madara can just hurl his PS blades w/o the Bijuudama tho.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Apr 25, 2019)

Even 1 Rinnegan Sage Mode Madara would ragdoll DMS Kakashi with Limbo


----------



## Serene Grace (Apr 25, 2019)

Madara fodderstomps


----------



## Crimson Flam3s (Apr 25, 2019)

Kakashi phases through everything Madara throw at him then reks hik up close with Raikiri or Kamui.


----------



## Cad Bane (Apr 25, 2019)

I'm leaning towards Kakashi. He's amped by 6 paths chakra and has speed and reactions to land hits on Kaguya. Kamui quick scope potentially one-shots Madara. Limbo also won't do much damage to Perfect Susanoo, or even touch an intangible Kakashi


----------



## baski (Apr 25, 2019)

Madara


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 25, 2019)

Madara cant hit kakashi. And how the fuck is madara PS stronger than kakashi when his can phase. Kamui raikiri and kamui shuriken ends madara

Kaguya >>> JJ madara >>> This weak ass madara. Kakashi was able to hurt kaguya before she can react. No body aside from JJ madara is beating DMS kakashi


----------



## Android (Apr 25, 2019)

PrimeRichard said:


> when his can phase.


Kakashi's PS can't phase.

Seriously, get your facts straight. First 30% Itachi using Tsukuyomi, then this.


----------



## Djomla (Apr 25, 2019)

Kakashi is given spanking by Lord Madara.


----------



## Serene Grace (Apr 25, 2019)

Android said:


> Kakashi's PS can't phase.
> 
> Seriously, get your facts straight. First 30% Itachi using Tsukuyomi, then this.




Like is this guy fr

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 25, 2019)

Android said:


> Kakashi's PS can't phase.
> 
> Seriously, get your facts straight. First 30% Itachi using Tsukuyomi, then this.


He can use kamui along with shuriken
He can use kamui along with his raikiri
But he can't use kamui phasing to incorporate susanoo. This is common sense.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 25, 2019)

Unless somebody shows me a legit way of Kakashi REACTING to Limbo then Madara smears the fucking floor with him.


----------



## Onda Vital (Apr 25, 2019)

Can Kakashi use one kamui to wrap at distance while he is in intangible mode with other eye?
If he can than he can snipe Madara while limbo can't touch him.
If he needs to materialize than limbo probably kills him, if limbo can break trought Kakashi's PS before kamui GG.


----------



## Serene Grace (Apr 25, 2019)

PrimeRichard said:


> He can use kamui along with shuriken
> He can use kamui along with his raikiri
> But he can't use kamui phasing to incorporate susanoo. This is common sense.


Right because his susanoo phased when kaguya ash bones went through his susano, correct?

It's better to accept when you're wrong rather then continuing on

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Android (Apr 25, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Like is this guy fr


Looks like he doesn't read the manga


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 25, 2019)

Android said:


> Location: grassy field.
> Knowledge: canon.
> Restrictions: Non.
> Initial distance: 60 ft.
> ...



Mindset?
What is meant by "canon" knowledge? 
Do these versions of each character have battle experience in those forms, or, to put it another way, do they have full knowledge of their movesets and experience of using them as per canon feats?
By the way, for the information of everyone else, 60ft is equivalent to about 18m.


----------



## Android (Apr 25, 2019)

PrimeRichard said:


> He can use kamui along with shuriken
> He can use kamui along with his raikiri
> But he can't use kamui phasing to incorporate susanoo. This is common sense.


No it's not.

Kaguya destroyed his PS with ash bones.

He couldn't make his PS intangible.


----------



## Android (Apr 25, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Mindset


In character.


Mad Scientist said:


> What is meant by "canon" knowledge


It means whatever knowledge they had in the manga about each other.



Mad Scientist said:


> do they have full knowledge of their movesets and experience of using them as per canon feats?


Yup.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Android (Apr 25, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Mindset


In character.


Mad Scientist said:


> What is meant by "canon" knowledge


It means whatever knowledge they had in the manga about each other.



Mad Scientist said:


> do they have full knowledge of their movesets and experience of using them as per canon feats?


Yup.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 25, 2019)

Onda Vital said:


> Can Kakashi use one kamui to wrap at distance while he is in intangible mode with other eye?
> If he can than he can snipe Madara while limbo can't touch him.
> If he needs to materialize than limbo probably kills him, if limbo can break trought Kakashi's PS before kamui GG.


Great question. Personally, I think that the dude can snipe so fast that he can phase afterwards, even if he can't simultaneously phase and warp.


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 25, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Right because his susanoo phased when kaguya ash bones went through his susano, correct?
> 
> It's better to accept when you're wrong rather then continuing on


It was me being creative that he should be able to combine susanoo and kamui like shuriken and raikiri. He doesn't have the feat so i understand .


Android said:


> Looks like he doesn't read the manga


Or looks like am forgetting some of the stuffs unless you tell me you remember every detail in the manga 700 pages. I usually refer to the pages if i don't recall at all


Android said:


> Kaguya destroyed his PS with ash bones.
> 
> He couldn't make his PS intangible.


Am saying i was being creative on his behalf like madara susanoo using bijuu susanoo despite not having feats for it


----------



## Android (Apr 25, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Great question. Personally, I think that the dude can snipe so fast that he can phase afterwards, even if he can't simultaneously phase and warp.


He can't warp and phase at the same time.

He needs to materialize.


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 25, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Like is this guy fr


Still waiting to hear about your itachi clone feint shit. Oh wait! His clone feint didn't tank any attack for him like kakashi. Concession accepted


----------



## Siskebabas (Apr 25, 2019)

Madara is also rikudo with rinnengan, so he has same chakra maybe little bit weaker then kakashis, but that doeesnt matter since there is nothing he can do about limbo


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 25, 2019)

Android said:


> He can't warp and phase at the same time.
> 
> He needs to materialize.


True, but I'm just saying that he can snipe Madara before Limbo can do anything important. Besides the fact that Madara needs to activate Limbo first (which he should achieve fairly), Limbo Shadows need to return to Madara after a certain amount of time. Kakashi can simply chill in Boxland while they dissipate with nothing to return to.

Even if all that failed, which is unlikely, Kakashi can sense Limbo Shadows using 6PS like how Naruto did. A few Kamui Shurikens should do the trick.

@Siskebabas
@The Death & The Strawberry
@Artistwannabe
@Djomla
@baski
@Ghost Of The Uchiha


----------



## MaruUchiha (Apr 25, 2019)

LOL people are seriously downplaying Madara/Limbo here, and that's coming from me of all people


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 25, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> LOL people are seriously downplaying Madara/Limbo here, and that's coming from me of all people


Am I?



Mad Scientist said:


> True, but I'm just saying that he can snipe Madara before Limbo can do anything important. Besides the fact that Madara needs to activate Limbo first (which he should achieve fairly), Limbo Shadows need to return to Madara after a certain amount of time. Kakashi can simply chill in Boxland while they dissipate with nothing to return to.
> 
> Even if all that failed, which is unlikely, Kakashi can sense Limbo Shadows using 6PS like how Naruto did. A few Kamui Shurikens should do the trick.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Apr 25, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Am I?


Sorry, but yea kinda.. Madara should be able to sense Kamui and dodge it with danger sense or swap with a Limbo clone. And can completely neg Kamui phase by ragdolling Kakashi with Limbo. And no Kakashi wouldn't be able to sense the clones because Naruto did it using senjutsu too not just Rikudou chakra


----------



## Android (Apr 25, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Kakashi can sense Limbo Shadows using 6PS like how Naruto did. A few Kamui Shurikens should do the trick.


Kakashi can't sense Limbo just because he has s piece of Six paths chakra.

That's like saying the allied Shinobi forces gained negative emotions sense because they received some of Naruto's chakra.


----------



## UltimaDude (Apr 25, 2019)

Limbo or bust for Madara IMHO


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 25, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Sorry, but yea kinda..
> 1. Madara should be able to sense Kamui and dodge it with danger sense or swap with a Limbo clone.
> 2. And can completely neg Kamui phase by ragdolling Kakashi with Limbo.
> 3. And no Kakashi wouldn't be able to sense the clones because Naruto did it using senjutsu too not just Rikudou chakra



1. No way. Kaguya couldn't even block a moving Kakashi with Kamui Raikiri. There's no way Madara's going to dodge a spacetime Kamui warp by a standing Kakashi.

2. Limbo itself is slower than DMS Kakashi, considering how they got played by Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke. There's little chance Limbo can touch Kakashi due to phasing. There's also minimal chance that they can outspeed him. Kakashi's Kamui is faster than Madara - that's as simple as I can see it.

3. I can't prove that Rikudo chakra lets Kakashi see sense (and possibly see) Limbo Shadows, but what I can do is provide strong evidence that suggests he should be able to.

The first piece of evidence is the fact that the Rikudo chakra specifically .
The second piece of evidence is that, notwithstanding the fact that the Six Paths chakra acquired from Hagoromo could , after stating that , Madara later suggests that  with him. What bond, you ask? Six Paths chakra (as you know, Madara became the third Sage of Six Paths when he became the 10-Tails Jinchuuriki.)
The last thing I should mention is that you can't prove Kakashi can't sense them. Since you can't, I'd much like to see evidence or reasoning that at least suggests he can't, as I've provided evidence to the contrary. I understand the whole burden of proof thing, but that kinda falls on you (too), technically speaking - without evidence, you claiming he can't sense it needs evidence; in the absence of such evidence, I can also dismiss your claim without evidence. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong here... @Reviewing Logic)



Android said:


> 1. Kakashi can't sense Limbo just because he has a piece of Six paths chakra.
> 2. That's like saying the allied Shinobi forces gained negative emotions sense because they received some of Naruto's chakra.


1. Read above and let me know your thoughts.
2. I disagree with that analogy, but regardless, what's wrong with saying that they gain negative emotion sensing because they received 9-Tails chakra? Naruto gained that ability too when he got Kyuubi chakra.

@Siskebabas
@The Death & The Strawberry
@Artistwannabe
@Djomla
@baski
@Ghost Of The Uchiha


----------



## Reviewing Logic (Apr 25, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> The last thing I should mention is that you can't prove Kakashi can't sense them. Since you can't, I'd much like to see evidence or reasoning that at least suggests he can't, as I've provided evidence to the contrary. I understand the whole burden of proof thing, but that kinda falls on you (too), technically speaking - without evidence, you claiming he can't sense it needs evidence; in the absence of such evidence, I can also dismiss your claim without evidence. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong here... @Reviewing Logic)


if it is Rikudo Kakashi then he might have Rikudo sensing

but idk if that is limited to Rikudo sage mode or not since Urashiki and other Rikudo chakra users aren't sages but can sense chakra as Urashiki chased down Gaara and Momo chased down Bee and Naruto without their byakugans  (only used to confirm) 


so implications could be there but it isn't confirmed honestly 

too much unknowns for that Kakashi moment


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 25, 2019)

Reviewing Logic said:


> if it is Rikudo Kakashi then he might have Rikudo sensing
> 
> but idk if that is limited to Rikudo sage mode or not since Urashiki and other Rikudo chakra users aren't sages but can sense chakra as Urashiki chased down Gaara and Momo chased down Bee and Naruto without their byakugans  (only used to confirm)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the intel! 

I think you're right that there's not enough information. Sage Mode did grant some sensing abilities, so it may be the dictator of why Naruto was able to sense Limbo Shadows - on the other hand, there's also the Six Paths chakra abilities to contend with, and the intricacies of Sasuke's rinnegan being able to see Limbo Shadows was not fully explained. The actual power-up to Kakashi's eyes from the chakra wasn't totally explained either, if at all.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## sabre320 (Apr 25, 2019)

God tiers are far above even demi gods..rikudo kakashi had base stats and jutsu that were able to pressure and hurt kaguya. Limbo isnt budging kakashis rikudo amped ps and he is fast enough to blitz madara....god sakes dude could blitz kaguyas shoulder off and intercept her st technique which was fast enough to blitz sasukes ameno.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ultrafragor (Apr 25, 2019)

sabre320 said:


> God tiers are far above even demi gods..rikudo kakashi had base stats and jutsu that were able to pressure and hurt kaguya.



You gonna give those vs Kaguya speed feats to Sakura too?


----------



## Ultrafragor (Apr 25, 2019)

@Mad Scientist 

explain why Kakashi's speed feats count but Sakura's doesn't?


----------



## sabre320 (Apr 25, 2019)

Ultrafragor said:


> @Mad Scientist
> 
> explain why Kakashi's speed feats count but Sakura's doesn't?


Sakurass attack happened when she was pressured by sasuke and naruto on both sides and kakashi had already eliminated her space time tech not to mention without black zetsu she dosent do well with coordinated assaults...not a direct combat scenario while kakashi landed the hit 1v1 while kaguya was directly targeting him and aiming attacks at him, she was looking straight at him from over 500meters and kakashi straight up blitzkreiged her shoulder off before she could do anything,,....when she had her spacetime tech available...


----------



## Ultrafragor (Apr 25, 2019)

sabre320 said:


> Sakurass attack happened when she was pressured by sasuke and naruto on both sides and kakashi had already eliminated her space time tech not to mention without black zetsu she dosent do well with coordinated assaults...not a direct combat scenario while kakashi landed the hit 1v1 while kaguya was directly targeting him and aiming attacks at him, she was looking straight at him from over 500meters and kakashi straight up blitzkreiged her shoulder off before she could do anything,,....when she had her spacetime tech available...



Right, and that's what doesn't make sense.

How can Kakashi land hits with his attack when she casually flew away from Sasuke when he was using Ameno to attempt a blitz?


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 25, 2019)

Ultrafragor said:


> @Mad Scientist
> 
> explain why Kakashi's speed feats count but Sakura's doesn't?





sabre320 said:


> Sakurass attack happened when she was pressured by sasuke and naruto on both sides and kakashi had already eliminated her space time tech not to mention without black zetsu she dosent do well with coordinated assaults...not a direct combat scenario while kakashi landed the hit 1v1 while kaguya was directly targeting him and aiming attacks at him, she was looking straight at him from over 500meters and kakashi straight up blitzkreiged her shoulder off before she could do anything,,....when she had her spacetime tech available...


Basically that. By the way, I'm not saying Sakura's not fast, nor do I think I ever downplayed WA Sakura unfairly (I believe I suggested she was underrated by the NBD, actually, in another thread).


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 25, 2019)

Ultrafragor said:


> Right, and that's what doesn't make sense.
> 
> How can Kakashi land hits with his attack when she casually flew away from Sasuke when he was using Ameno to attempt a blitz?


No one understands Kakashi.


----------



## Ultrafragor (Apr 25, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> No one understands Kakashi.



I'm not watching a 17 minute video

-snip-


----------



## sabre320 (Apr 25, 2019)

Ultrafragor said:


> Right, and that's what doesn't make sense.
> 
> How can Kakashi land hits with his attack when she casually flew away from Sasuke when he was using Ameno to attempt a blitz?


Because he was performing at that level kishi portrayed him as the mvp in their fight, hell he countered her st tech easily when sasukes ameno could not and he was blitzed when kaguya was much weaker while in kakashis case she had absorbed the chakra from her dimension greatly boosting her stats, he later recieved praise from the god of shinobi himself who called his feats godly.


----------



## Serene Grace (Apr 26, 2019)

PrimeRichard said:


> Still waiting to hear about your itachi clone feint shit. Oh wait! His clone feint didn't tank any attack for him like kakashi. Concession accepted


>Says Kakashi can phase his susanoo
>brings no proof and even gets his argument embarrassed and debunked

>concession accepted

Just stop you're embarrassing yourself at this point


----------



## JayK (Apr 26, 2019)

Oh look it's our daily top tier vs god tier thread.

Madara gets wasted.

He has inferior stats and is outhax'd to a point at which Limbo (with massively inferior clones than from his JJ self) won't matter.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Siskebabas (Apr 26, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> True, but I'm just saying that he can snipe Madara before Limbo can do anything important. Besides the fact that Madara needs to activate Limbo first (which he should achieve fairly), Limbo Shadows need to return to Madara after a certain amount of time. Kakashi can simply chill in Boxland while they dissipate with nothing to return to.
> 
> Even if all that failed, which is unlikely, Kakashi can sense Limbo Shadows using 6PS like how Naruto did. A few Kamui Shurikens should do the trick.
> 
> ...


That Would be correct but the problem is Kakashi cant deduce shadow mechanics because he neither senses them neither sees


----------



## King1 (Apr 26, 2019)

Since kakashi cant sense or see limbo then he loses to Madara


----------



## LIBU (Apr 26, 2019)

Can madara destroy kakashi's PS? If yes then kakashi has no way of dealing with Limbo,he can't see it neither can sense it. Madara wins with limbo.


----------



## Zembie (Apr 26, 2019)

Kakashi is a lot stronger than this Madara, but has no counter to Limbo.


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

I've yet to actually see one coherent argument on why DMS Kakashi is superior to Madara. It's just the usual hurr durr he tagged Kaguya.


----------



## Zembie (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> I've yet to actually see one coherent argument on why DMS Kakashi is superior to Madara. It's just the usual hurr durr he tagged Kaguya.


Rikudo chakra, flying Susanoo, tagging Kaguya, being untouchable while able to dish out Kamui. Madara can only win with Limbo, a Rinnegan jutsu, everything else is negged.


----------



## JayK (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> I've yet to actually see one coherent argument on why DMS Kakashi is superior to Madara. It's just the usual hurr durr he tagged Kaguya.


I've yet to see someone making a serious argument for Madara aside from an ultra shitty version of JJ Mads Limbo which gets neg'd by phasing.

Madara has no business dealing with ANY god tier outside of his JJ incarnations.


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Rikudo chakra


Madaras has It.


Zembie said:


> flying Susanoo


All PS can fly according to the DB.



Zembie said:


> tagging Kaguya,


And ? He hit her once when she had no idea that he could phase. That's literally all there is to it.



Zembie said:


> being untouchable while able to dish out Kamui


No, he can't do that.


Zembie said:


> Madara can only win with Limbo, a Rinnegan jutsu, everything else is negged.


Limbo rapes Kakashi w/o PS.
So does ST.
Madara's PS would rek Kakashi's.

Madara has the superior Dojutsu. Period.


----------



## Sorin (Apr 26, 2019)

Let's see, who has better speed and reaction feats? Who deploys their trump cards faster? Both Kakashi.

Done.


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

JayK said:


> I've yet to see someone making a serious argument for Madara aside from an ultra shitty version of JJ Mads Limbo which gets neg'd by phasing.
> 
> Madara has no business dealing with ANY god tier outside of his JJ incarnations.


Sorry, I don't take horseshit vague arguments seriously


----------



## LIBU (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> Madara's PS would rek Kakashi's.


can you elaborate on this part


----------



## JayK (Apr 26, 2019)

> Bootleg Limbo clones are still physically there and therefore easily get neg'd by phasing

> even if Mads somehow manages to get past Susano'o he is still going to get murdered in CQC by hax against a character with superior speed and reactions due to Rikudou enhancements and Kaguya tagging speed



Android said:


> All PS can fly according to the DB.


Yeah and Ama is hotter than the sun.

Madara's Susano'o can't fucking fly unless you got rock solid evidence in manga panels.



Android said:


> Limbo rapes Kakashi w/o PS.


Neg'd by Kamui



Android said:


> So does ST.


Neg'd by Kamui

Why do you keep bringing up garbage abilities which get neg'd by the same technique?

Completely putting the fact that ST can't get past PS aside. 



Android said:


> Madara's PS would rek Kakashi's.


Based on what?

Oh yeah right your personal character bias cause you ain't got jackshit for proof to back this dogshit claim up.



Android said:


> Sorry, I don't take horseshit vague arguments seriously


Everything you don't agree and/or can't disprove is a horseshit argument for you.

Hence why you probably created this thread due to wanting confirmation bias as you only see what you yourself want to see.


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

LIBU said:


> can you elaborate on this part


Absolutely.

Madara's PS has the same chakra empowering it like Kakashis. In addition to the Sage mode chakra and being manifested by the Rinnegan.

Now what feats Kakashi's PS has that wouof make people wanna go nuts and claim he'd rek Madara's ??


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Apr 26, 2019)

Im genuinely floored at what Im seeing here...

How the fuck does the majority think Madara wins this?

Pre JJ Madara > DMS Rikudo Kakashi?

Nah fam

Madara, if he doesn’t get blitzed (which he very likely would) gets pasted by Kamui Shuriken AoE bigger than his own PS...And Kakashi can toss 4 at once.

Limbo can deal with phasing, sure, but it does fuck all against PS...And Madaras own PS isn’t busting Kakashis faster than Kakashi BFRs Madaras...

Add to all of that, Pre Rikudo, 1MS Kakashi could make a Kamui snipe large enough to BFR Gyuki AND shut him back out again...So its not just Shuriken Madara needs to watch out for its Sniping too.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## JayK (Apr 26, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> How the fuck does the majority think Madara wins this


Due to being biased as shit and feeling smart about it.

Even mindless Juubito would paste SM Rinnegan Mads no diff.


----------



## LIBU (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Madara's PS has the same chakra empowering it like Kakashis. In addition to the Sage mode chakra and being manifested by the Rinnegan.
> 
> Now what feats Kakashi's PS has that wouof make people wanna go nuts and claim he'd rek Madara's ??


What you said is all irrelevant, they both have So6P chakra nothing less nothing more, kakashi's susanoo dodged kaguya's arms while saving sakura, yes it's a interception feat but nonetheless shows his PS travels fast, Kamui shurikens opens up kamui dimensions where they hit the target which will block madara's PS swords on top of that kakashi's PS can fly giving him more mobility (see kakashi saving sakura) while madara's PS never shown such things on panel.


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

JayK said:


> Yeah and Ama is hotter than the sun.


You can't differentiate between hyperbole and actual fucking data ??


JayK said:


> Bootleg Limbo clones are still physically there and therefore easily get neg'd by phasing


Yet Kakashi still has to materialize to hit Madara and when he does, Limbo rapes him 



JayK said:


> Based on what?


Based on actual scaling. Not mindless wank.

Read above.


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

LIBU said:


> What you said is all irrelevant, they both have So6P chakra nothing less nothing more, kakashi's susanoo dodged kaguya's arms while saving sakura, yes it's a interception feat but nonetheless shows his PS travels fast, Kamui shurikens opens up kamui dimensions where they hit the target which will block madara's PS swords on top of that kakashi's PS can fly giving him more mobility (see kakashi saving sakura) while madara's PS never shown such things on panel.


His PS never dodged the chakra arms 
There was one arm attacking Sakura, and Kakashi intercepted it. That's all.

Madara can counter Kamui Shurikens by lobbing countless PS blades.

Madara can toss 11-12 PS blades at a time. Kakashi can throw 4 Shurikens at a time, do the math.


----------



## JayK (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> You can't differentiate between hyperbole and actual fucking data ??


Still waiting for those manga panels.

gl



Android said:


> Yet Kakashi still has to materialize to hit Madara and when he does, Limbo rapes him


Yes it's not like Kakashi has both eyes or anything oh wait.



Android said:


> Based on actual scaling. Not mindless wank.





Scaling of what?

Your dogshit biased headcanon?

One is a god tier with RS enhancements and the other one is a top tier with a Rinnegan.

I am also curious as to your reasoning how a fodder ability like ST is gonna do jackshit here oh great unbiased @Android .

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> Madara can counter Kamui Shurikens by lobbing countless PS blades.
> 
> Madara can toss 11-12 PS blades at a time


Madara cant “lob” shit without Kurama

Kyosu Enbu is a Technique he can only use with Iso Susanoo

Without Kurama the only ranged capability Madaras Susanoo has is a shockwave...Which hits ONE Shuriken at best...Hes still getting slapped by the other 3...

Not to mention LoS Sniping...


----------



## JayK (Apr 26, 2019)

apparently an RS enhanced Susano'o which can fly is inferior to a Sage Mode enhanced Susano'o which cant even fly

Not like Kakashi needs PS to win though.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

JayK said:


> Still waiting for those manga panels.


The manga doesn't say Madaras PS can or can not fly.

DB addressed this.

Your opinion on this is irrelevant when we have the DB.

PS is based on the mythical Tengo which is half a hawk half a goblin. It can fly.



JayK said:


> Yes it's not like Kakashi has both eyes or anything oh wait.


Having both eyes doesn't change the fact that he still has to materialize to attack.



JayK said:


> Scaling of what?
> 
> Your dogshit biased headcanon?


Didn't think my argument would be too much for you to comprehend.

Not like you ever posted anything anywhere with substance for me to take anything you say seriously.

Now if you don't mind I'll contine this discussion with decent debators like Zembie or LIBU.


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

JayK said:


> apparently an RS enhanced Susano'o which can fly is inferior to a Sage Mode enhanced Susano'o which cant even fly
> 
> Not like Kakashi needs PS to win though.


Good thing Rinnegan Madara has the same RS chakra and a stronger eye.



JayK said:


> Not like Kakashi needs PS to win though.


And now I'm really tempted to put you on ignore.
Guess that's where you belong after all.


----------



## JayK (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> The manga doesn't say Madaras PS can or can not fly.


It was clearly SHOWN to not being able to fly.



Android said:


> DB addressed this.


Got bad news for you if you have to backpadel to the DB to prove your trash arguments.



Android said:


> Your opinion on this is irrelevant when we have the DB.


Manga canon > DB *canon*



Android said:


> Having both eyes doesn't change the fact that he still has to materialize to attack.


You are fucking wrong as usual.

Kakashi was already charging Kamui Raikiri as he was STILL PHASING THROUGH THE ASH BONE.

Good talk.



Android said:


> Didn't think my argument would be too much for you to comprehend.
> 
> Not like you ever posted anything anywhere with substance for me to take anything you say seriously.
> 
> Now if you don't mind I'll contine this discussion with decent debators like Zembie or LIBU.


> Can't admit he is fucking wrong

> Can't disprove my points

> as a result has to rely on insults as a last resort measurement


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> Madara has the same RS chakra


Not even remotely 

But sure

Kakashis Rikudo Chakra was straight from a former JJ stated to hold power comparable to the Sage himself...

Madaras is the definition of watered down


----------



## JayK (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> Good thing *Rinnegan Madara has the same RS chakra* and a stronger eye.


What. The. Fuck.



JayK said:


> I am also curious as to your reasoning how a fodder ability like ST is gonna do jackshit here oh great unbiased @Android .


Also still waiting for a response to this Captain Unbiased.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Apr 26, 2019)

> Kakashis Rikudo chakra was powerful enough to rip a portion of JJ Madaras power straight the fuck out of him
> Madaras was so weak it took the entirety of his matural lifespan and change to mature to a Rinnegan
> “GOod thInG MAdarA haS THE saMe RiKUDo chAkRa”

Yeah sure @Android 

Put anothet of your opinions directly in the trash bin

Do not pass go do not collect $200


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 26, 2019)

Siskebabas said:


> That Would be correct but the problem is Kakashi cant deduce shadow mechanics because he neither senses them neither sees


I think what you're saying would be true, but I would argue Kakashi already knew of it since he was watching the fight with Sasuke and Naruto vs Madara using Limbo. Thoughts?


----------



## Sorin (Apr 26, 2019)

It's so fucking simple. This version of Madara is below the following in everything.

- Juubito is so fast that top tiers barely register him after 1 hour of fighting him. They get used to it but after prolonged exposure to his speed.

- Then comes 1 rinnegan Juudara who is easily above Juubito in speed, destructive capacity, you name it.

- The above version gets shat on by both Naruto and Sasuke in speed. Sasuke straight up bullies him with pure foot speed and ameno.

- Then comes 2 rinnegan Juudara, who suffice to say is like almost a tier above Juubito but still has some problems with the gaybro duo. 

At this point SM double rinnegan Madara is so far behind these dudes that he is a dot compared to them. Anyway, let's move on. Here comes Kaguya.

- Naruto and Sasuke, from the hunters become the hunted. Their speed suddenly becomes insufficient and Kaguya deals with Sasuke's ameno with ease and almost catches Naruto off guard several times. Suddenly putting a hand on the absolute god tier of the narutoverse is out of their power until Naruto's "coolest guy" moment. One single instance. 

- Her hands are again noticed by Naruto and Sasuke to be fast as shit.

- Kaguya gains "power and speed like nothing before". Her bones are even faster now, remarked by Kakashi.

- All of the above don't matter in the face of rikodou powered double kamui. Her bones are reacted with ease by Kakashi phasing, she gets straight up gets blitzed 1 vs 1, her time-space tech gets shat on by Kakashi's speed with kamui. Her bones travel 2 centimetres before kamui snipe blitzes them out of existence.

At this point SM rinnegan Madara is a fucking ant in the grand scheme of things. He does nothing, he gets crushed like a bug before he can utter a word. That's the difference in power.


----------



## LIBU (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> His PS never dodged the chakra arms
> There was one arm attacking Sakura, and Kakashi intercepted it. That's all.
> 
> Madara can counter Kamui Shurikens by lobbing countless PS blades.
> ...



He can throw them when he has kyuubi enhanced susanoo....

well it doesn't matter much cause kakashi's susanoo dodged kaguya's arm dodging these shouldn't be a problem,if you are going to argue kakashi dodged 1 arm, but it doesn't matter these linear attacks doesn't travel fast like kaguya's arm.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## JayK (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> and a stronger eye.


Oh yeah talking about bullshit.

This is prolly wrong aswell considering that Kakashi clearly stated that the RS enhancement greatly increased his occular powers.

Damn.


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

LIBU said:


> He can throw them when he has kyuubi enhanced susanoo....


He can throw them w/o the BD, that's the basis of the jutsu. The BD were just enhancement to the jutsu.



LIBU said:


> well it doesn't matter much cause kakashi's susanoo dodged kaguya's arm dodging these shouldn't be a problem,if you are going to argue kakashi dodged 1 arm, but it doesn't matter these linear attacks doesn't travel fast like kaguya's arm.


Bravo!!
You basically just ignored everything I typed down previously.


----------



## LIBU (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> He can throw them w/o the BD, that's the basis of the jutsu. The BD were just enhancement to the jutsu.
> 
> 
> Bravo!!
> You basically just ignored everything I typed down previously.


Great, Madara fought Hashi thrice and used PS all three times but the only time he threw swords when he was using kurama enhanced susanoo i wonder why???

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 26, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> >Says Kakashi can phase his susanoo
> >brings no proof and even gets his argument embarrassed and debunked
> 
> >concession accepted
> ...


Didn't read the part i said i was being creative.

Are you not the guy who said itachi can clone feint like kakashi to tank attacks while having no feats or whatsoever. 
Clone feint to tank >>> clone feint
Still can't address my post cos i beats ur ass down and have nothing to say

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ultrafragor (Apr 26, 2019)

sabre320 said:


> Because he was performing at that level kishi portrayed him as the mvp in their fight, hell he countered her st tech easily when sasukes ameno could not and he was blitzed when kaguya was much weaker while in kakashis case she had absorbed the chakra from her dimension greatly boosting her stats, he later recieved praise from the god of shinobi himself who called his feats godly.



So, your answer is portrayal>feats?


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

LIBU said:


> Great, Madara fought Hashi thrice and used PS all three times but the only time he threw swords when he was using kurama enhanced susanoo i wonder why???


We only saw Madara fight Hashirama with PS twice. 
The first time he had Kurama, the second time the fight was off-panel


----------



## Sorin (Apr 26, 2019)

Ultrafragor said:


> So, your answer is portrayal>feats?



Sakura has exactly one feat of putting a hand on Kaguya after 3 god tiers cornered her.

Meanwhile Kakashi saves sakura from one of Kaguya's hands, then snipes 4 hands all at once, then he goes face to face with Kaguya, solo and not with a cheap shot from above, he phases through her bones, he goes through her with kamui raikiri. Not enough? Kaguya opens up a portal and shoots another bone towards Naruto. Now get this, before the bone travels 2 centimetres out of the portal Kakashi snipes it. Keep in mind that Naruto and the bone travel in opposite directions so the amount of time Kakashi has before Naruto transforms into ash is halved.

You compare that with Sakura cheap shoting her after getting in a tight spot by the same Kakashi and 2 other god tiers? That's weak. If this is not enough, Kakashi is the one that dropped her above her head, just at the right time, with Susano'o.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 26, 2019)

Wait this is NORMAL SM Madara??? 
Uhh how is this Mad even reacting to kamui raikiri?

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Ultrafragor (Apr 26, 2019)

Sorin said:


> Sakura has exactly one feat of putting a hand on Kaguya after 3 god tiers cornered her.
> 
> Meanwhile Kakashi saves sakura from one of Kaguya's hands, then snipes 4 hands all at once, then he goes face to face with Kaguya, solo and not with a cheap shot from above, he phases through her bones, he goes through her with kamui raikiri. Not enough? Kaguya opens up a portal and shoots another bone towards Naruto. Now get this, before the bone travels 2 centimetres out of the portal Kakashi snipes it. Keep in mind that Naruto and the bone travel in opposite directions so the amount of time Kakashi has before Naruto transforms into ash is halved.
> 
> You compare that with Sakura cheap shoting her after getting in a tight spot by the same Kakashi and 2 other god tiers? That's weak. If this is not enough, Kakashi is the one that dropped her above her head, just at the right time, with Susano'o.



Yeah, that's the problem. Kaguya was never really cornered and wasn't really out of options.

So, neither Kakashi or Sakura landing hits makes sense.

Especially given the boost Kaguya allegedly had at the time.

There's no way Obito's left over rikudo chakra made Kakashi faster than Sasuke and his Hagoromo chakra. So, I'm not buying any attempts to rationalize the events of the last section of that fight. 

Too many things didn't add up.


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 26, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Wait this is NORMAL SM Madara???
> Uhh how is this Mad even reacting to kamui raikiri?


Dont ask me bro. They say limbo will fuck his ass before kakashi makes a move. Same kakashi who blitz kaguya.
Even though  or  and subtitute limbo.
Apparently rinnegan madara reaction time >>> kaguya

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## LIBU (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> We only saw Madara fight Hashirama with PS twice.
> The first time he had Kurama, the second time the fight was off-panel


My man is straight up lying,
1.VoTE
2.WA
3.Before Formation of Leaf Village


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

LIBU said:


> VoTE


Correct.


LIBU said:


> WA


Correct.


LIBU said:


> Before Formation of Leaf Village


Did Madara used PS ? I don't remember.

Can you refresh my memory with a panel my good sir ?


----------



## Zembie (Apr 26, 2019)

LIBU said:


> My man is straight up lying,
> 1.VoTE
> 2.WA
> 3.Before Formation of Leaf Village


3rd is anime only.


----------



## Zembie (Apr 26, 2019)

On a second thought Madara can't bust Kakashi's Susanoo with limbo.


----------



## LIBU (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> Correct.
> 
> Correct.
> 
> ...


That's 2 times already and you said 2nd time was off paneled but in reality iirc it was 3rd time which was off paneled


----------



## LIBU (Apr 26, 2019)

Zembie said:


> 3rd is anime only.


Yeah i addressed it already


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

LIBU said:


> That's 2 times already and you said 2nd time was off paneled but in reality iirc it was 3rd time which was off paneled


I knew you couldn't post the scan because that fight was an anime only 

Edo Madara Vs Edo Hashirama was off-panel which is the one I'm referring to.

Wait, are you one of those anime-only fans ?


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 26, 2019)

Zembie said:


> On a second thought Madara can't bust Kakashi's Susanoo with limbo.


Six paths PS >>>> bijuus in durability so yh. Only JJ limbo can do any damage(small as that)

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## LIBU (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> I knew you couldn't post the scan because that fight was an anime only
> 
> Edo Madara Vs Edo Hashirama was off-panel which is the one I'm referring to.
> 
> Wait, are you one of those anime-only fans ?


Man we clearly saw both of them going at each other with mad using susanoo on panel,
If you're so confident that madara's susanoo is capable of throwing swords without kumara enhancements then post a panel.
I am waiting


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

Zembie said:


> On a second thought Madara can't bust Kakashi's Susanoo with limbo.


Good thing Madara doesn't use the posters's strategies. 
Now why in the name of fuck would he try to bust PS with limbo ?


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> Now why in the name of fuck would he try to bust PS with limbo ?


Simple. Madara is arrogant. He stated PS rival a bijuu. His limbo knock down all the bijuus including kurama. 
Kurama = PS. Sure madara will think he can do the same


----------



## Woodward (Apr 26, 2019)

Ah...The founder's fans and their stomp threads as usual. 

Not sure why people even think Limbo is relevant here. The only dangerous part about this technique is it's invisible to a non-Rikudou character. Limbo has no hax or destructive capabilities whatsoever. It's just a clone and that is it. Not to mention DMS Kakashi would see it, since he has the Six Paths Senjutsu.

You can make it 10 Rinnegan Madara and Kakashi would still win low difficulty.


----------



## Architect (Apr 26, 2019)

Kakashi raikiri-blitzes


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

LIBU said:


> Man we clearly saw both of them going at each other with mad using susanoo on panel,


Didn't know a fight between them is just the part where they rushed at each other.

We only saw them activate PS and Mokujin.

So stop arguing that we saw the whole fight anime-boy.


LIBU said:


> If you're so confident that madara's susanoo is capable of throwing swords without kumara enhancements then post a panel.
> I am waiting


We only seen Madara fight with PS using Kurama or off panel.

But this panel shows he can throw his susanoo swords

*Spoiler*: __ 








The first sword was stopped by Shukaku, then the the other cut the chain off then another attacked Gaara.

Oh, and don't try to reply with some nonsense like b...b...but that's not PS ...


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 26, 2019)

Madara never showed, or stated that his PS has the ability to fly, funnily enough all flying PS's we saw in the series all had Rikudou chakra amping them.


----------



## Sufex (Apr 26, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Madara never showed, or stated that his PS has the ability to fly, funnily enough all flying PS's we saw in the series all had Rikudou chakra amping them.


If jiraya gets the benefit of the doubt. Why doesn't rikudou mads?


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Madara never showed, or stated that his PS has the ability to fly,


The DB did that for him.


Artistwannabe said:


> funnily enough all flying PS's we saw in the series all had Rikudou chakra amping them.


Amazing logic. So I guess since this Madara has Rikudo chakra, then his PS can fly. Thank you.


----------



## Siskebabas (Apr 26, 2019)

Sorin said:


> It's so fucking simple. This version of Madara is below the following in everything.
> 
> - Juubito is so fast that top tiers barely register him after 1 hour of fighting him. They get used to it but after prolonged exposure to his speed.
> 
> ...



Thing is its kaguya, he has no experience with shinobi techniques, naruto already foold her dumb ass with kagebunshins so many times in a row, even after experienced it so many times during same fights. And kakashi is not power played hes more utilizing things on hax side. And as we have already seen before kamui shat on almost everyone rikudo or not rikudo.


----------



## LIBU (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> Didn't know a fight between them is just the part where they rushed at each other.
> 
> We only saw them activate PS and Mokujin.
> 
> ...


I knew you couldn't be able to show panels cuz that thing doesn't exist in the actual manga unlike your fanfic manga.

Lol, that's not what am i arguing about, show me he can throw 10-12 swords all at once like you claimed.

I am waiting


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 26, 2019)

Ultrafragor said:


> Yeah, that's the problem. Kaguya was never really cornered and wasn't really out of options.
> 
> So, neither Kakashi or Sakura landing hits makes sense.
> 
> ...



You might be right that certain things didn't add up, but Kakashi's and Sakura's feats, in my view, were fine.

1. Sakura got a hit on an unaware, largely stalemated, and weakened Kaguya. To get that hit, is reasonable, but it is also quite impressive given that Kaguya thought she could move up and couldn't dodge despite being a God. Sakura is pretty fast, it's clearly the author's intent. There's no manga portrayal indicating she's faster than Naruto or Sasuke, however.

2. Haguromo/Rikudo chakra - they're both Six Paths chakra, nonetheless, and they amp stats. You're forgetting that Kakashi is one of the fastest characters in the series anyway. Furthermore, there was the portrayal of chidori making kakashi move faster than normal (when he was a kid). What did he use in the fight vs Kaguya? That's right. Kamui Raikiri. To summarise: Kakashi is already one of the fastest characters, became amped by Six Paths chakra, and used a Raikiri. There's also the element of surprise to factor in as well, which, though somewhat minimally contributive, does lend some weight. Finally, there's also the possibility that he might have been phasing at the same time, reducing air resistance, which, again, may only have had a minimal contribution.

Edit: Actually, there's _another_ reason. Determination for a true cause. Kakashi had no more of his past weighing on him; Kaguya was fighting for world destruction, Kakashi was fighting for world peace and survival.


----------



## Ultrafragor (Apr 26, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> You might be right that certain things didn't add up, but Kakashi's and Sakura's feats, in my view, were fine.
> 
> 1. Sakura got a hit on an unaware, largely stalemated, and weakened Kaguya. To get that hit, is reasonable, but it is also quite impressive given that Kaguya thought she could move up and couldn't dodge despite being a God. Sakura is pretty fast, it's clearly the author's intent. There's no manga portrayal indicating she's faster than Naruto or Sasuke, however.
> 
> 2. Haguromo/Rikudo chakra - they're both Six Paths chakra, nonetheless, and they amp stats. You're forgetting that Kakashi is one of the fastest characters in the series anyway. Furthermore, there was the portrayal of chidori making kakashi move faster than normal (when he was a kid). What did he use in the fight vs Kaguya? That's right. Kamui Raikiri. To summarise: Kakashi is already one of the fastest characters, became amped by Six Paths chakra, and used a Raikiri. There's also the element of surprise to factor in as well, which, though somewhat minimally contributive, does lend some weight. Finally, there's also the possibility that he might have been phasing at the same time, reducing air resistance, which, again, may only have had a minimal contribution.



1. Kaguya was aware, which adds to why it doesn't make sense. Kaguya saw her, but did nothing. Didn't move, didn't just slap her, didn't use her as a scapegoat. There's no good explanation for why Kaguya did that.

2. Uh, Chidori makes you faster when running. It doesn't enhance your falling speed.....Either way, there's no reason Kaguya didn't dodge him as well.


----------



## Android (Apr 26, 2019)

LIBU said:


> I knew you couldn't be able to show panels cuz that thing doesn't exist in the actual manga unlike your fanfic manga.


I am using actual panels from the manga to support my claim.
I'm sorry if that's beyond your ability.

But then again you haven't actually posted one single coherent argument since the start of the debate.



LIBU said:


> Lol, that's not what am i arguing about


You were literally arguing that Madara can not throw his swords w/o Kurama. I proved you wrong.
And yes, he can throw 12 of them since they can be regenerated (or else how could he infused all those Bijuudamas with PS swords.

If your next post doesn't have any substance, then don't expect another reply.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Apr 26, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> 1. No way. Kaguya couldn't even block a moving Kakashi with Kamui Raikiri. There's no way Madara's going to dodge a spacetime Kamui warp by a standing Kakashi.
> 
> 2. Limbo itself is slower than DMS Kakashi, considering how they got played by Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke. There's little chance Limbo can touch Kakashi due to phasing. There's also minimal chance that they can outspeed him. Kakashi's Kamui is faster than Madara - that's as simple as I can see it.
> 
> ...




1. Amaterasu can be sensed before it happens, what makes Kamui different? From there Madara dodges it using danger sense, but I don't see why swapping with a Limbo clone wouldn't be another option
2. We've seen how fast Madara can switch with a Limbo clone. You think Kamui would be faster? Even when Madara can sense it coming? We've seen not even lightning speed was too fast for danger sense. And I know phasing can counter Limbo, but Limbo can counter phasing too similar to how Flying Thunder God did
3. If you can sense Limbo clones strictly with Rikudou chakra Sasuke wouldn't have been shown needing to rely on Rinnegan


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 26, 2019)

Ultrafragor said:


> 1. Kaguya was aware, which adds to why it doesn't make sense. Kaguya saw her, but did nothing. Didn't move, didn't just slap her, didn't use her as a scapegoat. There's no good explanation for why Kaguya did that.
> 
> 2. Uh, Chidori makes you faster when running. It doesn't enhance your falling speed.....Either way, there's no reason Kaguya didn't dodge him as well.



1. She was stalemated, like I said. She couldn't really do anything. It was the perfect team work, coordinated by Kakashi who was praised as having "truly godly feats". It all makes sense to me. 
2. Why just running? Besides, it isn't hard to imagine lightning improving speed. A lightning cloak amped A4. Why? By what rationale? Sometimes, it's just how the narutoverse works. Besides that, what about my other 5 points?


----------



## Siskebabas (Apr 26, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Im genuinely floored at what Im seeing here...
> 
> How the fuck does the majority think Madara wins this?
> 
> ...


You keed pulling feats out of your ass, kakashi cant warp gyuuki in and out without assistance of kuramas chakra, he fell flat on his ass just by warping kage bunshin.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Apr 26, 2019)

Why are people calling this Madara Demi God Tier and Top Tier? This is Rinnesharingan Madara only missing Juubi. He might be lower down but easily still God Tier. You don't need to be Juubi jinchuriki or Ootsutsuki to be God Tier.. That being said just because this Madara is slightly weaker than DMS Kakashi does not automatically mean Madara would lose. There's this thing called matchups. Limbo and danger sense hardcounters Kamui especially when Kakashi can't even see or sense Limbo clones


----------



## Zembie (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> Good thing Madara doesn't use the posters's strategies.
> Now why in the name of fuck would he try to bust PS with limbo ?


Then how the fuck does he bust it??? His own PS is garbage compared to Kakashi's especially with Kamui Shuriken.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## JayK (Apr 26, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Limbo hardcounters Kamui


Based on what?

Even if they can't be sensed they are still physically there and therefore can be phased through.

Kakashi with both eyes can also attack while phasing (as was shown when he phased through the Ash Bone while charging RK) so Madara is going to get assfucked either way.

I literally covered all of that in the previous page.

Madara gets no diff'd in all honesty, the gap between even the strongest top tier and the weakest god tier is massive. 
Madara is no exception to it.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Apr 26, 2019)

"Madara can't bust Susanoo"
Kakashi dies from Limbo at the start of the fight wtf! And why is everyone acting like sensory and danger sense don't hardcounter here? DMS Kakashi is wanked after all?


----------



## LIBU (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> I am using actual panels from the manga to support my claim.
> I'm sorry if that's beyond your ability.
> 
> But then again you haven't actually posted one single coherent argument since the start of the debate.
> ...


Ignored Everything hun?


Android said:


> Madara can toss 11-12 PS blades at a time.





LIBU said:


> He can throw them when he has kyuubi enhanced susanoo...


I am still waiting

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Siskebabas (Apr 26, 2019)

JayK said:


> Based on what?
> 
> Even if they can't be sensed they are still physically there and therefore can be phased through.
> 
> ...


Thats not true, he cant attack while phasing, thats literally going againts how kamui works. You have be solid to attack, its eyes rule


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 26, 2019)

Woodward said:


> Limbo has no hax or destructive capabilities whatsoever


Wtf. Limbo is hax to any non rikoidou tier character. Limbo prove it can still be bothersome to Rikoudou tiers

Limbo smack down 9 fucking bijjus. Its like me saying kamui has no DC so its trash.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 26, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> 1. Amaterasu can be sensed before it happens, what makes Kamui different? From there Madara dodges it using danger sense, but I don't see why swapping with a Limbo clone wouldn't be another option
> 2. We've seen how fast Madara can switch with a Limbo clone. You think Kamui would be faster? Even when Madara can sense it coming? We've seen not even lightning speed was too fast for danger sense. And I know phasing can counter Limbo, but Limbo can counter phasing too similar to how Flying Thunder God did
> 3. If you can sense Limbo clones strictly with Rikudou chakra Sasuke wouldn't have been shown needing to rely on Rinnegan


1. Kamui is faster than Amaterasu. Also, Madara needs two operations: activate Limbo, then use substitution. DMS Kamui requires one option and can be executed faster than Amaterasu.
2. Kamui is spacetime - it's faster than lightning. Even Minato had to ask Kakashi what he did. Minato > A4 > Amaterasu.

Can you explain FTG countering phasing more please? I'm not sure how that countering phasing would explain why Limbo can counter phasing. Besides, if you're saying they can counter each other, which one prevails? 

3. The Rinnegan actually enabled Sasuke to see them directly, the focus being on seeing, not sensing. Naruto's focus was his Six Paths (or senjutsu?) chakra, but alas, he was only able to sense them - and he did well at that.


----------



## Siskebabas (Apr 26, 2019)

Woodward said:


> Ah...The founder's fans and their stomp threads as usual.
> 
> Not sure why people even think Limbo is relevant here. The only dangerous part about this technique is it's invisible to a non-Rikudou character. Limbo has no hax or destructive capabilities whatsoever. It's just a clone and that is it. Not to mention DMS Kakashi would see it, since he has the Six Paths Senjutsu.
> 
> You can make it 10 Rinnegan Madara and Kakashi would still win low difficulty.


Thats plainly incorrect, only rinnegan can see them and only naruto can sense, kakashi has neither abilities.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Apr 26, 2019)

JayK said:


> Based on what?
> 
> Even if they can't be sensed they are still physically there and therefore can be phased through



So you're claiming Kakashi would use Kamui phase against an attack he can't even see coming? And this doesn't sound ridiculous to you?


JayK said:


> the gap between even the strongest top tier and the weakest god tier is massive.
> Madara is no exception to it.


Once again this Madara is easily still God Tier and even if he wasn't Limbo still hardcounters here. This Madara could be Academy Tier and he still wins with Limbo


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 26, 2019)

Siskebabas said:


> Thats plainly incorrect, only rinnegan can see them and only naruto can sense, kakashi has neither abilities.



"Kakashi has neither abilities" is a bold statement, given that we don't know for sure if he can, but we sure are given plenty of evidence that he can.



MaruUchiha said:


> So you're claiming Kakashi would use Kamui phase against an attack he can't even see coming? And this doesn't sound ridiculous to you?
> 
> Once again this Madara is easily still God Tier and even if he wasn't Limbo still hardcounters here. This Madara could be Academy Tier and he still wins with Limbo



Kakashi already knows about Limbo?


----------



## MaruUchiha (Apr 26, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Kakashi already knows about Limbo?


How does that save him from getting one shotted by it when he won't be able to see or sense it?


----------



## Siskebabas (Apr 26, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> "Kakashi has neither abilities" is a bold statement, given that we don't know for sure if he can, but we sure are given plenty of evidence that he can.
> 
> 
> 
> Kakashi already knows about Limbo?


Excuse, since when we give kakashi other characters abilities, madara stated himself that sasuke sees them because of rinnengan and naruto senses them, furthermore naruto is most adept sensor in this whole manga


----------



## JayK (Apr 26, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> So you're claiming Kakashi would use Kamui phase against an attack he can't even see coming? And this doesn't sound ridiculous to you?


They are physically there so they can be phased through, like it or not + he has knowledge on Limbo.


MaruUchiha said:


> Once again this Madara is easily still God Tier and even if he wasn't Limbo still hardcounters here. This Madara could be Academy Tier and he still wins with Limbo


No because the clones are only as powerful as the user which means they are far inferior to JJ Mads Limbo which kinda seals the deal. 

You overrate the living fuck out of this bootleg Limbo.

Kakashi can legit just run up to the fucker by phasing through everything and slice his head off. PS is not even needed (not like Mads can get past it anyway).



And no, this Madara is in no fucking way god tier, he'd get shit on by V1 Juubito with no difficulty.
Are you high?


----------



## Sorin (Apr 26, 2019)

Ultrafragor said:


> Yeah, that's the problem. Kaguya was never really cornered and wasn't really out of options.
> 
> So, neither Kakashi or Sakura landing hits makes sense.
> 
> ...



That's your prerogative to believe they don't make sense.

However, let's go back to Obito trolling almost everyone with one eye and no rikodou chakra. 

1. He suddenly awekens MS after Rin is killed. What does he do? He goes and shit diffs about a dozen ninjas in one fell swoop. 

2. He trolls sandaime's barrier with it and untill another space time user in Minato coordonates a pinpoint attack he does as he pleases just because freaking kamui is that hax. 

3. He then negs a point blank Amaterasu with it. 

4. He shows up at the kage meeting and toys with them all. Onoki's cube is trolled after traping Sasuke in it and the fastest man alive hulk smashes the wall behind him because Obito is not even fucking there. Obito laughs and drops the mic. 

5. Now let's get to the war. He begins by dancing around 4 high tiers with almost kamui alone. One of them has just taken the mantle of the fastest shinobi alive by outspeeding Raikage's full powered shunshin. One of them is the best taijutsu fighter in the entire universe. Kakashi and Bee are no slouches either.  So until, Kakashi realizes that their kamuis are connected they couldn't do shit about it. Even then, it takes all of them combining their attacks and getting everything absolutely right timing wise to touch him. 

6. He then absorbs the freaking juubi in him with kamui. Had to be nerfed after that, otherwise the aliance would be even more fucked. 

Shit goes down, Obito is stripped of the juubi and retains just a fraction of it but regains kamui so let's move on to the last part. 

7. Obito pissed off and getting a healthy dose of tnj tries to make up by getting the bijuus out of Juudara. At this point juudara blitzes everything in sight but 8 gate gai. Anyway, Obito goes right in front of him but surprise, surprise he can't fucking touch him from point blank range because Obito regained kamui. He reaches into his gut and yanks some bijuu chakra out of him and goes to boxland to lend it to Naruto. 

Madara at this point can't do shit to Obito because he is long gone in his dimension. Until he realizes that he needs kamui to go there and goes and yanks it out of kakashi's eye socket. So again, a god tier was impotent against the power of one kamui because it is that hax. 

Then add them together, throw some rikodou chakra for good measure, put them in a master tactician in Kakashi and voila, you get a god tier capable of trolling even the most powerful being in the universe.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 26, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> I can't prove that Rikudo chakra lets Kakashi see sense (and possibly see) Limbo Shadows, but what I can do is provide strong evidence that suggests he should be able to.
> 
> The first piece of evidence is the fact that the Rikudo chakra specifically .
> The second piece of evidence is that, notwithstanding the fact that the Six Paths chakra acquired from Hagoromo could , after stating that , Madara later suggests that  with him. What bond, you ask? Six Paths chakra (as you know, Madara became the third Sage of Six Paths when he became the 10-Tails Jinchuuriki.)
> The last thing I should mention is that you can't prove Kakashi can't sense them. Since you can't, I'd much like to see evidence or reasoning that at least suggests he can't, as I've provided evidence to the contrary. I understand the whole burden of proof thing, but that kinda falls on you (too), technically speaking - without evidence, you claiming he can't sense it needs evidence; in the absence of such evidence, I can also dismiss your claim without evidence. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong here... @Reviewing Logic)





Reviewing Logic said:


> if it is Rikudo Kakashi then he might have Rikudo sensing
> 
> but idk if that is limited to Rikudo sage mode or not since Urashiki and other Rikudo chakra users aren't sages but can sense chakra as Urashiki chased down Gaara and Momo chased down Bee and Naruto without their byakugans (only used to confirm)
> 
> ...





Siskebabas said:


> Excuse, since when we give kakashi other characters abilities, madara stated himself that sasuke sees them because of rinnengan and naruto senses them, furthermore naruto is most adept sensor in this whole manga



@Siskebabas Please refer to quotes above, in succession, then please provide your thoughts on the matter. I am indeed suggesting that DMS Kakashi can sense them.



MaruUchiha said:


> How does that save him from getting one shotted by it when he won't be able to see or sense it?



You haven't refuted my evidence that he can sense it. I think there is unexplained info, but I am indeed going to pursue the argument that DMS Kakashi can sense Limbo. But Regardless, the fact that he knows of Limbo obviously means that as soon as Kakashi quickscopes Mads, even if Limbo are active, he'll immediately go into phasing and they will dissipate with no host to return to.


----------



## Siskebabas (Apr 26, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> @Siskebabas Please refer to quotes above, in succession, then please provide your thoughts on the matter. I am indeed suggesting that DMS Kakashi can sense them.
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't refuted my evidence that he can sense it. I think there is unexplained info, but I am indeed going to pursue the argument that DMS Kakashi can sense Limbo. But Regardless, the fact that he knows of Limbo obviously means that as soon as Kakashi quickscopes Mads, even if Limbo are active, he'll immediately go into phasing and they will dissipate with no host to return to.


Dude its you that should provide arguments that he can sense them. Kakashi had little bit of sage chakra, that is all. Naruto had six path sage mode ontop of kyuubi chakra mode both provide insane sensing.


----------



## sabre320 (Apr 26, 2019)

Ultrafragor said:


> So, your answer is portrayal>feats?


Are you serious the dude has insane feats backed up by insane portrayal from rikudo sennin himself....


----------



## strongestrinneganuser (Apr 26, 2019)

nice thread. good battle choices!


----------



## LIBU (Apr 26, 2019)

LIBU said:


> Can madara destroy kakashi's PS? If yes then kakashi has no way of dealing with Limbo,he can't see it neither can sense it. Madara wins with limbo.


This was my initial answer.


Android said:


> Madara's PS would rek Kakashi's.


This is you stated, i asked how?


Android said:


> Madara's PS has the same chakra empowering it like Kakashis. In addition to the Sage mode chakra and being manifested by the Rinnegan


This irrelevant/baseless answer you came up with.

Then you asked me to explain why Kakashi's PS is stronger than Madara's PS


LIBU said:


> What you said is all irrelevant, they both have So6P chakra nothing less nothing more, kakashi's susanoo dodged kaguya's arms while saving sakura, yes it's a interception feat but nonetheless shows his PS travels fast, Kamui shurikens opens up kamui dimensions where they hit the target which will block madara's PS swords on top of that kakashi's PS can fly giving him more mobility (see kakashi saving sakura) while madara's PS never shown such things on panel.


This is the answer i came up with.
Note:- i can post panels if you want


Android said:


> Madara can toss 11-12 PS blades at a time.


This was your reply


LIBU said:


> He can throw them when he has kyuubi enhanced susanoo....


This was my reply,but then you tried to put words in my mouth saying that i claimed madara's susanoo can't throw swords while ignoring the context of our exchange(see that's why i brought the whole exchange)

If you want i can show any "Manga Panel"  to support my claims

Now, you should show "Manga panels" to support your claims,let me remind you again what were your claims

1.Madara's susanoo can Fly
2.Madara's susnaoo can throw 10-12 swords all at once without kurama enhancements.

I am waiting


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 26, 2019)

Siskebabas said:


> Dude its you that should provide arguments that he can sense them. Kakashi had little bit of sage chakra, that is all. Naruto had six path sage mode ontop of kyuubi chakra mode both provide insane sensing.


That's true, but Madara mainly alluded to Naruto having Six Paths. It's true that it the ability to sense them may be due to Senjutsu or a mix of Senjutsu and Six Paths, but you ought to refute the following arguments and evidence.

Strong evidence that suggests Kakashi should be able to sense Limbo. 

The first piece of evidence is the fact that the Rikudo chakra specifically .
The second piece of evidence is that, notwithstanding the fact that the Six Paths chakra acquired from Hagoromo could , after stating that , Madara later suggests that  with him. What bond, you ask? Six Paths chakra (as you know, Madara became the third Sage of Six Paths when he became the 10-Tails Jinchuuriki.)


----------



## Siskebabas (Apr 26, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> That's true, but Madara mainly alluded to Naruto having Six Paths. It's true that it the ability to sense them may be due to Senjutsu or a mix of Senjutsu and Six Paths, but you ought to refute the following arguments and evidence.
> 
> Strong evidence that suggests Kakashi should be able to sense Limbo.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but i'm going be blunt with you, everything stated here is false. 
1. Eyes pwoer can be enchanced by everything, bijuu chakra, hashirama chakra, sage chakra, you name it.
2. Bond between sasuke and madara are that both of them are uchihas and indra trasmigrants.
3. There huge diffrence between having bits of sage chakra and full fledged six path sage mode, same as curse mark and sage mode.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Sorin (Apr 26, 2019)

All in all, it doesn't even matter if Kakashi senses limbo or not. He knows almost everything about Madara and knows what he can do. But he is far faster so until Madara even processes to use limbo or anything else, he is suddenly in another dimension thinking what the fuck just happened.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> The DB did that for him.
> 
> Amazing logic. So I guess since this Madara has Rikudo chakra, then his PS can fly. Thank you.


Juudara's rikudou chakra = rinnegan madara's. Good to know, infact one can argue he only got as little as to awaken the Rinnegan, explain why Madara needed JJ and shinju to compete with Naruto and Sasuke, rikudou chakra amps your base right? So how is Madara weaker than both? He obviously has a superior base, oh wait they both got a shitton of Rikudou chakra, so there is a difference on how much you get  This is all evident when you see Sasuke's Rinnegan > Madara's. NOT TO MENTION Hagoromo STATED that Madara was no longer Indra's incarnate as well. Madara has never shown flight with his PS, you have to give more than the DB to convience me otherwise.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 26, 2019)

Btw even if it can fly it changes nothing lol, Kakashi shit-blitzes this Madara.


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 26, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> . Amaterasu can be sensed before it happens, what makes Kamui different? From there Madara dodges it using danger sense,


Why didn't he sense sasuke amaterasu then?  why didn't he dodge amatersu with danger sense or bijuu tail smack? Also saying kamui can be sense is like saying ST/BT can be sense.


PrimeRichard

[QUOTE="MaruUchiha said:


> 2. We've seen how fast Madara can switch with a Limbo clone. You think Kamui would be faster?


Kakashi said gaining . Also kaguya  which  The most impressive thing about it was he was losing balance as he was falling and still timed kamui perfectly. DMS Kamui seems faster to me


MaruUchiha said:


> Even when Madara can sense it coming


No he can't. Any feats of him doing so will be welcome


MaruUchiha said:


> We've seen not even lightning speed was too fast for danger sense.


That says much about his reaction time than danger sense. Base madara has no danger sense. Not like it changes anything btw.


MaruUchiha said:


> And I know phasing can counter Limbo, but Limbo can counter phasing too similar to how Flying Thunder God did


FTG mechanics are different to limbo. Also unless you think madara limbo travel speed is faster than kamui snipe and kaguya then madara will be long blitz or kamui away.  or he can and subtitute limbo.
Unless you think Sage rinnegan madara reaction time >>> kaguya who had byakugan
Mind you, am not in any way saying kakashi can see limbo but he can snipe kamui before madara reacts.

What happened to you maru. What powerful genjutsu make you argue for madara, a founder as that and betray your own kamui


----------



## Sufex (Apr 26, 2019)

Sorin said:


> That's your prerogative to believe they don't make sense.
> 
> However, let's go back to Obito trolling almost everyone with one eye and no rikodou chakra.
> 
> ...




This convinced me kakashi got this. I was on the fence because of limbo but it legit might be a non factor. God tiers are that much above. gg.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Siskebabas (Apr 26, 2019)

I think people misunderstanding kamui speeds, no where was is stated that you can increase its speed via chakra. Kakashi got kuramas chakra boost few times and it made his kamui bigger not faster. what got his body into the state that it was currently in before death here is stated that he teleported at twice speed that is all when two eyes combine.
1. We know that first has phasing, can eject things from kamui, can teleport self and others with a touch.
2. Other kamui teleports from range and teleport self with kamui.
3. As stated sychronized kamui lets you teleport self x2 speed.
4. But we havent seen that it effects other kamui functions, and we know kamui has diffrend speeds, depending on function


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 26, 2019)

Madara wins. 



Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> Limbo one-shots since it can't be sensed or seen by this Kakashi.
> Madara's PS would demolish Kakashi's since it's powered up by the real Rinnegan, rikudo chakra, plus Sage Mode, plus Madara's own Indra chakra, compared to Kakashi only having a recycled  fragment of Obito's six paths chakra.
> ST and Preta deal with Kamui warp attemps.





Android said:


> I agree completely. And shouldn't Kyosu Enbu be able to counter Kamui Shurikens ?



Kakashi technically should seeing as Obito's chakra which gave him the DMS _does _have Six Paths chakra. For all intents and purposes, DMS Kakashi is Kakashi with Six Paths power.



Android said:


> Kakashi's PS can't phase.



Technically it should be able to as it is part of Kakashi, similar to how Obito was able to make the Gedo chains phase with him. He was also able to make a giant shuriken phase with him too.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 26, 2019)

Siskebabas said:


> 1. I'm sorry but i'm going be blunt with you, everything stated here is false.
> 2. Eyes pwoer can be enchanced by everything, bijuu chakra, hashirama chakra, sage chakra, you name it.
> 3. Bond between sasuke and madara are that both of them are uchihas and indra trasmigrants.
> 4. There huge diffrence between having bits of sage chakra and full fledged six path sage mode, same as curse mark and sage mode.



1. *How is everything stated false*? Stop lying. For instance, it was *literally stated *that the Six Paths chakra enhanced Kakashi's ocular power. What part of that is false?! I even provided hyperlinks. 
2. The difference being that those chakra aren't hyped to improve ocular powers in particular AND that Rikudo chakra literally and purposefully was stated to improve Kakashi's ocular power. 
3. Madara stopped being Indra's incarnate at some point? Regardless, Kakashi having two sharingans with Six Paths chakra etc. effectively made him wield 
4. Huge difference? Is that why Kakashi was able to wield a PS, is that why we know his eye powers increased, is that why he first blitzed Kaguya? 



Siskebabas said:


> I think people misunderstanding kamui speeds, no where was is stated that you can increase its speed via chakra. Kakashi got kuramas chakra boost few times and it made his kamui bigger not faster. this scenario here is stated that he teleported at twice speed that is all when two eyes combine.
> 1. We know that first has phasing, can eject things from kamui, can teleport self and others with a touch.
> 2. Other kamui teleports from range and teleport self with kamui.
> 3. As stated sychronized kamui lets you teleport self x2 speed.
> 4. But we havent seen that it effects other kamui functions, and we know kamui has diffrend speeds, depending on function


That's fine and all, but I didn't see anyone arguing Kamui speed was improved aside from the power of dual mangekyo sharingan. The fact is that it already had insane speed so dual MS doubling that is just unfair at this point. I can't believe people think this version of Madara stands a chance...


----------



## Siskebabas (Apr 26, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> 1. *How is everything stated false*? Stop lying. For instance, it was *literally stated *that the Six Paths chakra enhanced Kakashi's ocular power. What part of that is false?! I even provided hyperlinks.
> 2. The difference being that those chakra aren't hyped to improve ocular powers in particular AND that Rikudo chakra literally and purposefully was stated to improve Kakashi's ocular power.
> 3. Madara stopped being Indra's incarnate at some point? Regardless, Kakashi having two sharingans with Six Paths chakra etc. effectively made him wield
> 4. Huge difference? Is that why Kakashi was able to wield a PS, is that why we know his eye powers increased, is that why he first blitzed Kaguya?
> ...


No one is lying to you here. You can enchance ocular power as much as you want, but sharingan cant see limbo, thats it, there is no iff or buts, its only to rinnengan atributed ability, period. He stopped being incarnate but was one before thats where connection coming from. Yes its huge diffrence because its monumental power and after few mins he gassed out. And its not kakashis power, its obitos. He hit kaguya with raikiri by phasing through her attacks, what shes supposed to do, bitch just stood there without understanding whats happening because she has no idea of ninjutsu. If you want to believe that kakashi can hang out with juubi jinchurikis just by getting little bit of chakra from obito, who was already lost juubi, by all means do that.


----------



## Serene Grace (Apr 26, 2019)

PrimeRichard said:


> *itachi can clone feint like kakashi to tank attacks while having no feats or whatsoever*.



Read the fucking manga before you shit talk lmao

itachi used a clone feint to get Kabuto to hit a clone with his sword on two different occasions, thus putting him in a position for izanami

 Itachi also Sasuke to waste an attack on a clone



 Sit tf down son, you just proved you didnt read the manga


----------



## sabre320 (Apr 26, 2019)

Android said:


> Madaras has It.
> 
> All PS can fly according to the DB.
> 
> ...


Nagato had the rinnegan he clearly beats dms kakashi too....
KAKASHI blitzes madaras head off before he can react dude was getting pressured by base edo tobirama...
Shinra tensei rapes kakashi wow...
kakashis sussano recieved praise from rsm naruto and was performing well again


MaruUchiha said:


> How does that save him from getting one shotted by it when he won't be able to see or sense it?


His ps which easily tanks limbo,...or his kamui raikiri that can phase through any attacks while simultaneously capable of warping any thing it pierces...this is exluding he can simply blitz his head off with his vastly superior stats.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 26, 2019)

Siskebabas said:


> 1. No one is lying to you here. You can enchance ocular power as much as you want, but sharingan cant see limbo, thats it, there is no iff or buts, its only to rinnengan atributed ability, period.
> 
> 2. He stopped being incarnate but was one before thats where connection coming from.
> 
> ...



1. No, you were the one who provided false information. You stated that *everything* I said was *false*. This accusation is *not true*. For example...

One thing I had stated was EXACTLY this: "The first piece of evidence is the fact that the Rikudo chakra specifically ." And this is a fact. This alone doesn't *prove* he can sense Limbo Shadows, which is why I tagged more evidence later. Regardless, *this is a fact*. Therefore, your statement that EVERYTHING I said was false is incorrect.



Take a look. It LITERALLY says that "HIS EYE ABILITY WAS INCREASED FROM THE POWER OF THE SIX PATHS HE RECEIVED." Feel free to check out the official translation as well.

2. At the time that he said he had both of Naruto's and Sasuke's power, was he an Indra incarnate?

3. Okay? In those few moments he outclassed every single person in the entire manga. True or true?

4. Of course she understood. She countered Sasuke just fine. There is a simple fact you need to understand - Kakashi outperformed Kaguya, period.

5. Doesn't matter about hanging out with those guys because while Kakashi had DMS with Rikudo chakra, he was stronger than every single shinobi that ever lived.


Besides all this... You're not really answering something. DMS Kakashi is faster than Kaguya who is notably faster than this version of Madara. Don't you agree that Kakashi Kamui-snipes the crap out of this Madara before he can do anything useful, given that he needs to execute two operations: 1) Activate Limbo and 2) Substitute?


----------



## Woodward (Apr 26, 2019)

PrimeRichard said:


> Wtf. Limbo is hax to any non rikoidou tier character. Limbo prove it can still be bothersome to Rikoudou tiers
> 
> Limbo smack down 9 fucking bijjus. Its like me saying kamui has no DC so its trash.



Yes, all it did was it smacked a Biju. Even SM Naruto picked up Kurama and slammed it down. The thing is, Limbo has never actually damaged anyone or anything for that matter. Do you realize that it's just a clone in hidden dimension? Apart from being impossible to detect, it doesn't do anything.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 26, 2019)

Woodward said:


> Yes, all it did was it smacked a Biju. Even SM Naruto picked up Kurama and slammed it down. The thing is, Limbo has never actually damaged anyone or anything for that matter. Do you realize that it's just a clone in hidden dimension? Apart from being impossible to detect, it doesn't do anything.


Here's some information. 

Using his ,  projects a shadow of himself into *Limbo* (輪墓, _Rinbo_, _Literally meaning:_ Wheel Grave), an invisible world that coexists with the physical world but that is ordinarily impossible to detect, perceive or even physically interact with. With one Rinnegan, Madara can form only one shadow, but with two Rinnegan, he can form up to four. Each shadow has the same abilities as the real Madara, with the added advantage of being untrackable. The shadows can attack targets, giving the appearance of an inexplicable force knocking them down, or they can defend Madara, giving the appearance of an invisible wall around him.A shadow's very formation can be used defensively, taking Madara's place mid-attack as a sort of .After a certain amount of time, a shadow will need to return to Madara's body, and he will likewise need to wait a certain amount of time before he can reform it.

Against most opponents, Madara's shadows give him an insurmountable advantage. But  and , after receiving , undermine some of the shadows' usual benefits: Sasuke can see them with his own Rinnegan; Naruto can  them while using ; Naruto can damage them using . Through a combination of these skills, Naruto is able to capture a shadow, preventing it from returning to Madara.


----------



## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 26, 2019)

DMS Kakashi effortlessly wins.

Raikiri Kamui'd bypass Rinnegan Madz Blood ET Tree physique. Raikiri Raiden 6Path's upgrade would bisected physically. Subsequently Mangekyo Genjutsu trapped the latter mentally/Raikiri Knife ascends via earthscape undeniably exaraberate a dire threat. The enemy'd undoubtedly acquire defeat VS a brilliance intellect shinobi - strategically stand-point. Limbo's affinities allocate capped abilities of terms of transfix like a literal life like 6P Doppel-Ganger. Quite a excellence rich deadliest acquirance opponent. Officially grasping a foe antiguard would be seemingly a efficient maneuver on a stealth gameplan by intellect intent-association + utility theoretically. Presumed be a power virtually improbable on bypass terms i.e, improbability of scientific escape arguably - Rinbo Clone Bunshin aired would bypass SPSM Kamui atmospherically God Gedo's electrixity streak bolts would conflagrate on RPSM PS physically delivered gargantan significantly like efficient capacity power output. Consequently time space powered, propelled exaciated'd scientically transcend a Six Path's God Tree like element upgrade like God Gedo Rinbo Rinnegan.

Mid-high difference.


----------



## Siskebabas (Apr 26, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> 1. No, you were the one who provided false information. You stated that *everything* I said was *false*. This accusation is *not true*. For example...
> 
> One thing I had stated was EXACTLY this: "The first piece of evidence is the fact that the Rikudo chakra specifically ." And this is a fact. This alone doesn't *prove* he can sense Limbo Shadows, which is why I tagged more evidence later. Regardless, *this is a fact*. Therefore, your statement that EVERYTHING I said was false is incorrect.
> 
> ...


Listen, I said that is not true because we were not discussing ocular power, ofcourse its increases with stronger chakra, but the point we were discussing was that sharingan just cant see it, its not eyes ability to see it no matter how much ocular power is being increased, its same thing mugen tsukuyomi, only rinnegan can resist it, no other way around. He stopped being incarnate when he died, thats is all, thats special bond they both have in common. Ofcourse he didnt outclassed every single person in manga, that was naruto and it was only him on panel managed to go toe to to with kaguya alone for prolonged time. Everyone and their mother outperformed kaguya, even sakura. Again not true, he wasnt stronger then any shinobi eve lived, as kaguya, jj obito, naruto, sasuke, jj madara definately smack him.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 26, 2019)

Siskebabas said:


> Listen, I said that is not true because we were not discussing ocular power, ofcourse its increases with stronger chakra, but the point we were discussing was that sharingan just cant see it, its not eyes ability to see it no matter how much ocular power is being increased, its same thing mugen tsukuyomi, only rinnegan can resist it, no other way around.



I didn't argue he can see it, I argued a case for why he could _sense_ Limbo. You aren't giving me good enough evidence to suggest he _cannot_ sense Limbo. Mugen Tsukuyomi is not the same thing (unless you can explain why?). Whether or not he can sense Limbo becomes irrelevant when you factor in that Limbo cannot touch Kakashi, even if they were active - speaking of which, you still haven't answered whether or not Madz gets blitzed immediately upon showdown?



Siskebabas said:


> He stopped being incarnate when he died, thats is all, thats special bond they both have in common.



They also share another special bond - having Rikudo chakra. 



Siskebabas said:


> Ofcourse he didnt outclassed every single person in manga, that was naruto and it was only him on panel managed to go toe to to with kaguya alone for prolonged time. Everyone and their mother outperformed kaguya, even sakura.



I disagree. NO ONE managed to hurt Kaguya until DMS Kakashi showed up. When I say he outclassed everyone, I'm saying that in the brief exchanges between DMS Kakashi and Kaguya, he completely outperformed her, and by extension, he outshone everyone while in DMS+Rikudo chakra form... 

Kaguya > Everyone Else.
DMS Kakashi blitzed Kaguya zero diff. 
I'll leave the conclusion up to your judgement. 

And no, compared to Kakashi, Naruto, and Sasuke... Sakura *did not* outperform Kaguya on her own. Her feat relied on a weakened Kaguya being effectively stalemated apart from above - you call that significant out-performance? Don't forget that Sakura needed saving (and it was Kakashi who saved her - _where was her speed then?_) In fact, initially, no one _outperformed_ Kaguya _individually_ except Kakashi. The rest needed teamwork which is completely fine. 



Siskebabas said:


> Again not true, he wasnt stronger then any shinobi eve lived, as kaguya, jj obito, naruto, sasuke, jj madara definately smack him.



Much of that is inaccurate.

Kaguya got owned, momentarily. Therefore........
JJ Obito would get blitzed. 
Naruto and Sasuke likely get their heads chopped off. 
JJ Madara's strongest form, in my view, would likely lose.
Haguromo? Well, Kakashi owned Kaguya momentarily, so... that's more debatable. 

I'll leave Kamui hax up to your judgement.


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 26, 2019)

Woodward said:


> Yes, all it did was it smacked a Biju


And that's a great feat for madara. It unique ability wasn't knocking down the bijuu but invisible to the naked eye. 



Woodward said:


> Even SM Naruto picked up Kurama and slammed it down.


Limbo is a hax jutsu and not raw power. It isn't it nature to be destructive but invisible to the naked eye. 


Woodward said:


> The thing is, Limbo has never actually damaged anyone or anything for that matter.


Things like FTG, kotoamatsukami, kamui etc didn't do enough or any damage to anyone but you can't say it didn't do enough damage to people so it not that useful. They are hax which counter raw power


Woodward said:


> Do you realize that it's just a clone in hidden dimension? Apart from being impossible to detect, it doesn't do anything.


And does how it works. It doesn't need to be all destructive. Thing is all characters who have DC will lose to limbo. Rikodou tiers not included
Also *each shadow has the same abilities as the real Madara, with the added advantage of being untrackable. *Guess they can even be hax and DC at the same time


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 26, 2019)

*Spoiler*: _Message For..._ 




@Ghost Of The Uchiha
@Android
@MaruUchiha
@The Death & The Strawberry
@baski
@Djomla
@Artistwannabe
@Siskebabas
@Ultrafragor
@King1
@ARGUS




*
Credits to @Raikiri19*

*Adult Kakashi with *
*at the end of the War Arc*



Kakashi's feats in the battle against Kaguya are praised and hyped as godly by freaking Rikudo Sennin of all people.



Kakashi's new technique Kamui Raikiri, which he used to struck and wound Kaguya with the Chakra Goddess and strongest character in the manga completely unable to defend herself, is hyped for its great speed.



Kakashi's new technique Kamui Shuriken receives great hype as the power of a god who can send everything in another dimension. The technique receives further praise for its efficacy and for having being effective against even Kaguya transformed in her giant form.



In the databook, Kamui is said to be a Mangekyo Sharingan with godly eyes, a powerful dojutsu capable to warping everything in the other dimension. Kamui's warping speed is hyped more than once and it is said that only a skilled user of Kamui can teleport himself, implying that Kakashi completely mastered the left eye during the War Arc, as he showed that he learned also to teleport himself. About the DMS + Rikudo power up that Kakashi received, it is said that only a skilled user of the Mangekyo can apply Kamui powers to Susanoo, exactly what Kakashi did when he created Kamui Shuriken. Both the defensive and the offensive might of Kamui are hyped.



Kakashi is portrayed like a powerful character enhanced by Rikudo chakra and Naruto is impressed by how Kakashi's Susanoo literally trashed Kaguya's giant form, and calls it better than Sasuke's Susanoo, which was actually completely shat on by Kaguya more than once.



In the databook, Kakashi receives great hype for the feats he showed in the battle against Kaguya when he gave great trouble to the Goddess, countering her techinques with Kamui Shuriken and long range Kamui, defending from her with Kamui phasing and even blitzing and wounding her with Kamui Raikiri, directly leading to her sealing, as Hagoromo remarked praising Kakashi's "godly feats" with both his brain and brawns.



​


Sage light said:


> Raikiri Kamui'd bypass Rinnegan Madz Blood ET Tree physique. Raikiri Raiden 6Path's upgrade would bisected physically. Subsequently Mangekyo Genjutsu trapped the latter mentally/Raikiri Knife ascends via earthscape undeniably exaraberate a dire threat. The enemy'd undoubtedly acquire defeat VS a brilliance intellect shinobi - strategically stand-point. Limbo's affinities allocate capped abilities of terms of transfix like a literal life like 6P Doppel-Ganger. Quite a excellence rich deadliest acquirance opponent. Officially grasping a foe antiguard would be seemingly a efficient maneuver on a stealth gameplan by intellect intent-association + utility theoretically. Presumed be a power virtually improbable on bypass terms i.e, improbability of scientific escape arguably - Rinbo Clone Bunshin aired would bypass SPSM Kamui atmospherically God Gedo's electrixity streak bolts would conflagrate on RPSM PS physically delivered gargantan significantly like efficient capacity power output. Consequently time space powered, propelled exaciated'd scientically transcend a Six Path's God Tree like element upgrade like God Gedo Rinbo Rinnegan.





*Spoiler*: _Grammar Fixed?_ 




Raikiri Kamui'd bypass Rinnegan Madz' Blood ET Tree physique. Raikiri Raiden 6Path's upgrade would bisect physically. Subsequently, Mangekyo Genjutsu trapped the latter mentally/Raikiri Knife; ascension via earth-escape undeniably exacerbates a dire threat. The enemy would undoubtedly acquire defeat VS a brilliance-of-intellect shinobi - strategically standpoint. Limbo's affinities allocate capped abilities in terms of transfixation, likening to a literal life-like 6P Doppel-Ganger. Quite an excellence, the rich, yet deadliest of acquisitions against an opponent. Officially grasping a foe anti-guarded would seemingly be an efficient maneuver within a stealth gameplan by intellect intent-association alongside utility, theoretically. Presumed to be a power virtually improbable on bypass terms i.e, the improbability of scientific escape, arguably - Rinbo Clone Bunshin aired would bypass SPSM Kamui atmospherically - God Gedo's electricity streak bolts would conflagrate on RPSM PS's physical delivery of gargantuan magnitude as significant as the efficient capacity of power output. Consequently, a spacetime-powered, propelled execution, scientifically, would transcend a Six Path's God tree-like element upgrade akin to the God Gedo Rinbo Rinnegan.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Apr 26, 2019)

JayK said:


> They are physically there so they can be phased through



ABC logic.. He has to actually see or sense Limbo to know he has to phase thru the attack. He won't decide to phase for no reason


JayK said:


> + he has knowledge on Limbo.


Completely irrelevant to thie situation.. Knowledge won't help him see or sense Limbo


JayK said:


> No because the clones are only as powerful as the user which means they are far inferior to JJ Mads Limbo which kinda seals the deal.


So.. Because they're weaker than Juubi Madara that automatically means they're useless? Dude is still in Sage Mode and amped by Hashi boob. Even 1 Rinnegan Sage Mode Madara one shotted the Bijuu. He has 2 Rinnegan here



JayK said:


> You overrate the living fuck out of this bootleg Limbo.


How the fuck am i overrating him? I said he would lose without Limbo.. I'm supposed to be delusional like you guys and think DMS Kakashi can counter Limbo (when he can't see or sense it) or else i'm overrating him? It's you who's downplaying Limbo and completely ignoring the fact Kakashi can't see or sense it


JayK said:


> Kakashi can legit just run up to the fucker by phasing through everything and slice his head off. PS is not even needed (not like Mads can get past it anyway).


You don't hear how bias you sound? This is so one-sided.. Madara has danger sense. And Limbo. If Kakashi tries phase rushing Madara would danger sense his attack then one shot him with Limbo while he's solidified to attack


JayK said:


> And no, this Madara is in no fucking way god tier, he'd get shit on by V1 Juubito with no difficulty.


So because he loses to a mid God Tier that means he can't be lower God Tier? Isn't Hashirama wanked as the "strongest non-God Tier"? Do you know how easy double Rinnegan Sage Mode Madara would push his shit in?

How did this get a Winner rating yet i'm getting spammed with Optimistics? It's clear who's more reasonable here. Fools are seriously delusional in this match


PrimeRichard said:


> Why didn't he sense sasuke amaterasu then?


Sasuke only used Amaterasu on Madara when Madara had just revived not when he had danger sense from Sage Mode, and Sasuke's Amaterasu was a sneak attack. Regular sensory which is different from danger sense has been shown to require focus on the target
Never denied that, but i doubt it would work since Madara would sense Kamui coming and be ready to swap with a Limbo clone. Don't you think Kakashi would've tried using Kamui on Juubi Madara at some point if that would actually work?


PrimeRichard said:


> why didn't he dodge amatersu with danger sense or bijuu tail smack?


Because once again he didn't have danger sense and wasn't sensing Sasuke at the time so he was wide open for a sneak attack. As for the Bijuu Madara stated himself he was purposely getting beat up by them


PrimeRichard said:


> Also saying kamui can be sense is like saying ST/BT can be sense.


Not the same at all.. Wdk if Rinnegan jutsu can be sensed the same way MS jutsu have been show able to


PrimeRichard said:


> No he can't. Any feats of him doing so will be welcome


First of all you don't gotta lie to kick it.. As stubborn as you guys are being i highly doubt any ammount of concrete evidence would change your minds. You guys are arguing DMS Kakashi wouldn't be one shotted by Limbo when Kakashi can't even see or sense it! Sigh anyway we've seen that MS jutsu can be sense multiple times on panel.. What makes Kamui different?


PrimeRichard said:


> That says much about his reaction time than danger sense


Uhh no.. Naruto literally said he was using danger sense to dodge A3's attack. Idk which one you guys are downplaying worse Limbo or danger sense


PrimeRichard said:


> Base madara has no danger sense.


What does base Madara have to do with the fact Sage Mode Madara DOES have danger sense?


PrimeRichard said:


> FTG mechanics are different to limbo.


But both hardcounter Kamui


PrimeRichard said:


> Also unless you think madara limbo travel speed is faster than kamui snipe


Possibly.. We saw Madara swap with a Limbo clone just as quick as Rikudou Sage Mode Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke's attack
Not when he can swap with Limbo clones or just counter them with Yasaka Beads


PrimeRichard said:


> or he can and subtitute limbo


Not when he has Flying Thunder God negging danger sense. Flying Thunder God Slash should be faster than Kamui Raikiri and Madara negged Flying Thunder God Slash with danger sense. And don't come at me with that "hur dur DMS Kakashi is Kaguya's speed because he hit her with a Raikiri" ABC logic


PrimeRichard said:


> What happened to you maru. What powerful genjutsu make you argue for madara, a founder as that and betray your own kamui


Lol. I'm just not about to argue against the fact Sage Mode Madara's Limbo and danger sense combined hardcounter DMS Kakashi


----------



## Siskebabas (Apr 26, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> I didn't argue he can see it, I argued a case for why he could _sense_ Limbo. You aren't giving me good enough evidence to suggest he _cannot_ sense Limbo. Mugen Tsukuyomi is not the same thing (unless you can explain why?). Whether or not he can sense Limbo becomes irrelevant when you factor in that Limbo cannot touch Kakashi, even if they were active - speaking of which, you still haven't answered whether or not Madz gets blitzed immediately upon showdown?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, so kaguya< kakashi now, you heard it here first folks. I pretty much dont have will to continue this debate, this is just lot of bad. If you think kakashi is that strong to you then more power to you

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 26, 2019)

Siskebabas said:


> Wow, so kaguya< kakashi now, you heard it here first folks. I pretty much dont have will to continue this debate, this is just lot of bad. If you think kakashi is that strong to you then more power to you



Why are you ignoring context? I mentioned the following contextual words multiple times: "brief", "exchange", "momentarily"... It's true... In that *brief moment, Kakashi out-played Kaguya; this is canonically factual. It's not me thinking he was stronger at that specific moment - he was.* Blame Kishimoto, not me  

As always, I'm open to new ideas - and hey if this debate is wearing you out, I know what you're feeling like - just come back another day when you're feeling more spirited like Might Gai's youth!

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Sufex (Apr 26, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Why are you ignoring context? I mentioned the following contextual words multiple times: "brief", "exchange", "momentarily"... It's true... In that *brief moment, Kakashi out-played Kaguya; this is canonically factual. It's not me thinking he was stronger at that specific moment - he was.* Blame Kishimoto, not me
> 
> As always, I'm open to new ideas - and hey if this debate is wearing you out, I know what you're feeling like - just come back another day when you're feeling more spirited like Might Gai's youth!


You're such a colourful poster scientist


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 26, 2019)

Sufex said:


> You're such a colourful poster scientist


Likewise. 

Don't think I've forgotten your original name, though. 

Here's a free present.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 26, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Sasuke only used Amaterasu on Madara when Madara had just revived not when he had danger sense from Sage Mod


You're ryt. It skip me lol


MaruUchiha said:


> Never denied that, but i doubt it would work since Madara would sense Kamui coming and be ready to swap with a Limbo clone.


JJ madara with six paths senjutsu couldn't sense kamui, i doubt rinnegan madara with sage mode alone can.


MaruUchiha said:


> Don't you think Kakashi would've tried using Kamui on Juubi Madara at some point if that would actually work?


We know kamui is faster if both eyes are use together. Kakashi had one plus madara is was JJ who has six paths senjutsu, he could have sense and reacted to it


MaruUchiha said:


> Not the same at all.. Wdk if Rinnegan jutsu can be sensed the same way MS


JJ madara with superior senses(six paths senjustu) couldn't, i dont see normal SM sensing kamui. He only knew that obito had to materialize to teleport, nothing about sensing kamui was mentioned


MaruUchiha said:


> You guys are arguing DMS Kakashi wouldn't be one shotted by Limbo when Kakashi can't even see or sense it!


Am saying kamui snipe will happen before madara react mentally to subtitute limbo. Pls don't tell me he can sense kamui. Note this is no JJ madara whose reaction time is far above this one


MaruUchiha said:


> Sigh anyway we've seen that MS jutsu can be sense multiple times on panel.. What makes Kamui different?


That MS jutsu was physical attack like amaterasu. Can't recall tsukuyomi, koto and kamui been sense before


MaruUchiha said:


> Uhh no.. Naruto literally said he was using danger sense to dodge A3's attack. Idk which one you guys are downplaying worse Limbo or danger sense


He sense raikage because dude was coming straight at him. Kamui has no physical form that can make a person sense it. Is a s/T and not physical attack. Also seems like you're wanking danger sense a lot to me.


MaruUchiha said:


> What does base Madara have to do with the fact Sage Mode Madara DOES have danger sense?


When you said lightning attack i taught you meant V2 E, and edo madara didn't have no SM then hence i said base or madara has no SM. I misunderstood your post lol


MaruUchiha said:


> Possibly.. We saw Madara swap with a Limbo clone just as quick as Rikudou Sage Mode Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke's attack


And you forget that JJ madara reactions and speed are far above his alive rinnegan version. He was physically amp


MaruUchiha said:


> Not when he can swap with Limbo clones or just counter them with Yasaka Beads


This is no JJ mad who can react faster. JJ madara >>>> rinnegan madara in every stat


MaruUchiha said:


> Not when he has Flying Thunder God negging danger sense. Flying Thunder God Slash should be faster than Kamui Raikiri and Madara negged Flying Thunder God Slash with danger sense.


Did you forget FTG slash is better when the enemy has already been mark or kunai has been thrown(against izuna)

WA SM naruto with danger sense also got blitz by blind madara. Madara gets blitz regardless of his danger sense. Thing is you gotta have reaction to support danger sense. SM danger sense alone isn't enough when the difference in speed is so huge.


----------



## Serene Grace (Apr 26, 2019)

@PrimeRichard 

Do you concede: yes or no? I wanna hear your reply after you outright stating incorrect facts in two different threads


----------



## JayK (Apr 26, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> ABC logic.. He has to actually see or sense Limbo to know he has to phase thru the attack. He won't decide to phase for no reason





MaruUchiha said:


> Completely irrelevant to thie situation.. Knowledge won't help him see or sense Limbo





MaruUchiha said:


> So.. Because they're weaker than Juubi Madara that automatically means they're useless? Dude is still in Sage Mode and amped by Hashi boob. Even 1 Rinnegan Sage Mode Madara one shotted the Bijuu. He has 2 Rinnegan here


You do fucking remember what V1 Juubito did to Tobirama and Hashi? 
And V1 Juubito is MASSIVELY inferior to this version of Kakashi it's not even funny.
Also yes, this version of Limbo is massively inferior aswell to a point at which they straight up won't do shit and/or will just get phased through because SM and Hashi cells ARE FUCKING TRASH COMPARED TO JJ AND RS CHAKRA.
Senseable or not (best part is he probably can actually sense them due to RS chakra).
Get that in your head cause you and some other people downplay the living shit out of the actual hax and speed + reaction difference of both characters.
Dude can legit just run up to Madara and slice his head off while staying intangible as was shown in canon with the Ash Bone.


MaruUchiha said:


> How the fuck am i overrating him? I said he would lose without Limbo.. I'm supposed to be delusional like you guys and think DMS Kakashi can counter Limbo (when he can't see or sense it) or else i'm overrating him? It's you who's downplaying Limbo and completely ignoring the fact Kakashi can't see or sense it


You just wrote 4 fucking paragraphs about the same useless thing.
Confuckinggrats.


MaruUchiha said:


> You don't hear how bias you sound? This is so one-sided.. Madara has danger sense. And Limbo. If Kakashi tries phase rushing Madara would danger sense his attack then one shot him with Limbo while he's solidified to attack


oh nvm 5 paragraphs
You are also overrating danger sense af (as always).
Yes I am so biased for having the much stronger much faster much more hax'd combatant win.



I also just like to debate in Kakashi's favour recently due to all the asshurt Sannin fanboys.


MaruUchiha said:


> So because he loses to a mid God Tier that means he can't be lower God Tier? Isn't Hashirama wanked as the "strongest non-God Tier"? Do you know how easy double Rinnegan Sage Mode Madara would push his shit in?
> 
> How did this get a Winner rating yet i'm getting spammed with Optimistics? It's clear who's more reasonable here. Fools are seriously delusional in this match


Because your points are fucking garbage and massively downplay the actual gap between Rinnegan Mads and DMS Kakashi.
SM Hashi loses to SM Rinnegan Mads, although with high difficulty.
The same SM Hashi would get NEG'D BY V1 JUUBITO AND SO WOULD MADARA.

I also love how trash tier posters like Android in a last ditch effort after getting their arguments completely dismantled bring up Madara's fodder swords which get blocked by fucking Shukaku out of all people.
Kakashi's PS straight up tanks that garbage or just phases through them and still cuts Mads head off no diff.
Alternatively Kakashi just uses PS cause those bootleg Limbo clones ain't breaking it for shit and neither is anything else in Madara's pathetic pre JJ arsenal in comparison to god tiers.


----------



## Trojan (Apr 26, 2019)

I haven't read the 9 pages, and I don't know if someone mentioned this
but Kakashi might be able to sense the Limbo since he has Obito's sage chakra. 

with that being said, whether he can or not, Asspulldara will probably win. Especially with Kakashi being only able to last
with that power for like a 1-5m at best. :V


----------



## ARGUS (Apr 26, 2019)

Madara mid diffs at best

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 27, 2019)

ARGUS said:


> Madara mid diffs at best


That is utter fake news. Let me explain... 

Raikiri Kamui'd bypass Rinnegan Madz' Blood ET Tree physique. Raikiri Raiden 6Path's upgrade would bisect physically. Subsequently, Mangekyo Genjutsu trapped the latter mentally/Raikiri Knife; ascension via earth-escape undeniably exacerbates a dire threat. The enemy would undoubtedly acquire defeat VS a brilliance-of-intellect shinobi - strategically standpoint. Limbo's affinities allocate capped abilities in terms of transfixation, likening to a literal life-like 6P Doppel-Ganger. Quite an excellence, the rich, yet deadliest of acquisitions against an opponent. Officially grasping a foe anti-guarded would seemingly be an efficient maneuver within a stealth gameplan by intellect intent-association alongside utility, theoretically. Presumed to be a power virtually improbable on bypass terms i.e, the improbability of scientific escape, arguably - Rinbo Clone Bunshin aired would bypass SPSM Kamui atmospherically - God Gedo's electricity streak bolts would conflagrate on RPSM PS's physical delivery of gargantuan magnitude as significant as the efficient capacity of power output. Consequently, a spacetime-powered, propelled execution, scientifically, would transcend a Six Path's God tree-like element upgrade akin to the God Gedo Rinbo Rinnegan.
A distortion cannot occur unless the interlocutors are manifested on a physical plane. By definition, would require substance to project itself on a earthly level. What this dark and space time technique hinges on is a continuum of forces. A force which transcends the mere comprehension of the average shinobi. Ergo, if a distortion were to conquer, one may point to the conscious, but the conscious is merely an inchoate manifestation of the unconscious. Jung's archetypes would shed more light on the matter.
But in order for these statements to be analyzed, it must be acknowledged that one of them is true; thereby employing the concept being scrutinized, and begging the question. But the mere consideration of the fact that it begs the question employs the concepts of truth and validity, by pointing out that these statements apparently beg the question; for such an observation is a logical and analytical conclusion. As the reality of this nonsensical dichotomy accords with such a conclusion, we have indeed now found a definition for truth: the accordance of a cognition with its object. The scrutiny of the dichotomy is the cognition, and the dichotomy itself the object.
Instead of throwing a dislike and a one-liner, maybe try explaining your viewpoints so that they can possibly stand in this fierce debate of Madz vs Truly Godly Feats.


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 27, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> @PrimeRichard
> 
> Do you concede: yes or no? I wanna hear your reply after you outright stating incorrect facts in two different threads


Which are


----------



## Braiyan (Apr 28, 2019)

An IC Kakashi opened with Kamui GG against who he thought was Madara. The only reason he didn't do the same against the real Madara was because either Obito was there to stop it, he was dead tired, or had a more important priority in the Juubi, none of which are the situations here. So Madara gets a free, all expenses paid trip to boxland.

Doesn't matter if it's long range Kamui, Kamui Shurikens, or Kamui Raikiri. Madara's gonna get warped eventually.

Also off-topic but:



Sage light said:


> DMS Kakashi effortlessly wins.
> 
> Raikiri Kamui'd bypass Rinnegan Madz Blood ET Tree physique. Raikiri Raiden 6Path's upgrade would bisected physically. Subsequently Mangekyo Genjutsu trapped the latter mentally/Raikiri Knife ascends via earthscape undeniably exaraberate a dire threat. The enemy'd undoubtedly acquire defeat VS a brilliance intellect shinobi - strategically stand-point. Limbo's affinities allocate capped abilities of terms of transfix like a literal life like 6P Doppel-Ganger. Quite a excellence rich deadliest acquirance opponent. Officially grasping a foe antiguard would be seemingly a efficient maneuver on a stealth gameplan by intellect intent-association + utility theoretically. Presumed be a power virtually improbable on bypass terms i.e, improbability of scientific escape arguably - Rinbo Clone Bunshin aired would bypass SPSM Kamui atmospherically God Gedo's electrixity streak bolts would conflagrate on RPSM PS physically delivered gargantan significantly like efficient capacity power output. Consequently time space powered, propelled exaciated'd scientically transcend a Six Path's God Tree like element upgrade like God Gedo Rinbo Rinnegan.
> 
> Mid-high difference.



It's like if a passage was translated through a dozen languages in Google Translate before being re-translated back into English.


----------



## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 28, 2019)

Braiyan said:


> It's like if a passage was translated through a dozen languages in Google Translate before being re-translated back into English.



Hilarious.

Truly you like  scan panel!?!

You're bias Itachi straight up kicked Pein right on that a$$ where he belong's LmfaoOoO. Technically a outright illustrated excellence hype snippet statement that you like outright  lol.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Apr 28, 2019)

Braiyan said:


> An IC Kakashi opened with Kamui GG against who he thought was Madara. The only reason he didn't do the same against the real Madara was because either Obito was there to stop it, he was dead tired, or had a more important priority in the Juubi, none of which are the situations here. So Madara gets a free, all expenses paid trip to boxland


Not when Kamui is sensed and dodged with danger sense or swapped with a Limbo clone

He then gets hardcounter one shotted by Limbo while he's still solidified and won't be able to see or sense Limbo coming


Braiyan said:


> Doesn't matter if it's long range Kamui, Kamui Shurikens, or Kamui Raikiri. Madara's gonna get warped eventually.


Not a single one of those would work against Madara's sensory, danger sense, and ability to swap with Limbo clones combined


----------



## Braiyan (Apr 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Not when Kamui is sensed and dodged with danger sense or swapped with a Limbo clone



Madara doesn't have the speed to dodge Kamui or Kamui shurikens if EMS Sasuke and the bijuu could tag him.
He can swap literally once with a Limbo clone, then the clone gets warped and Kakashi could just warp him again.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Apr 29, 2019)

Braiyan said:


> Madara doesn't have the speed to dodge Kamui or Kamui shurikens if EMS Sasuke and the bijuu could tag him.
> He can swap literally once with a Limbo clone, then the clone gets warped and Kakashi could just warp him again.


1. Yet he had the speed to swap with a Limbo clone against Ameno.. Kamui is faster than Ameno now?
2. EMS Sasuke and the Bijuu especially  tagged weaker versions of Madara
3. Madara has 4 Limbo clones when he has both his Rinnegan not only 1


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> . Yet he had the speed to swap with a Limbo clone against Ameno.


And maru you're still forgetting JJ madara physical and mental reaction >>>> Rinnegan SM madara. DMS kakashi kamui raikiri blitz kaguya without her reacting or moving a muscle. Why can't kamui raikiri blitz or shuriken warp madara madara before he can react  and substitute limbo?


MaruUchiha said:


> . Madara has 4 Limbo clones when he has both his Rinnegan not only 1





Braiyan said:


> then the clone gets warped and Kakashi could just *warp him again.*


----------



## Braiyan (Apr 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> . Yet he had the speed to swap with a Limbo clone against Ameno.. Kamui is faster than Ameno now?



Why are you talking about JJ Madara's feats when non-JJ Madara is being discussed in this thread?


----------



## JayK (Apr 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> 1. Yet he had the speed to swap with a Limbo clone against Ameno.. Kamui is faster than Ameno now?


How many times to I have to tell you midget that SM Madara's Limbo is infinity times weaker than JJ Madara's Limbo?


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Apr 29, 2019)

2 questions

1. How the fuck is this thread still going when its blatantly obvious Kakashi eats Madara alive
2. How the fuck is @MaruUchiha backing a founder over Kamui gg?


----------



## MaruUchiha (Apr 29, 2019)

PrimeRichard said:


> And maru you're still forgetting JJ madara physical and mental reaction >>>> Rinnegan SM madara.


Based on what? First of all that Limbo swap had nothing to do with physical reactions. Second since when does Juubi increase mental reactions?


Braiyan said:


> then the clone gets warped and Kakashi could just warp him again.


Really @PrimeRichard? Kakashi is gonna warp all 4 Limbo clones then go on to warp Madara too? This doesn't sound bias to you? Kakashi will be dead by the 1st Limbo clone


Braiyan said:


> Why are you talking about JJ Madara's feats when non-JJ Madara is being discussed in this thread?


Juubi powerup amps Limbo? Based on what?


JayK said:


> How many times to I have to tell you midget that SM Madara's Limbo is infinity times weaker than JJ Madara's Limbo?


Has nothing to do with Limbo swap


WorldsStrongest said:


> 1. How the fuck is this thread still going when its blatantly obvious Kakashi eats Madara alive


Because i'm fascinated by how wanked DMS Kakashi is. He's gonna win against out the gate Limbo that he can't even see or sense.. And is somehow gonna Kamui a guy who can sense it coming, dodge it with danger sense, and swap with Limbo clones


WorldsStrongest said:


> 2. How the fuck is @MaruUchiha backing a founder over Kamui gg?


Because i'm not bias or a wanker? There's not a single way Kakashi can win here and me being an Obito/Kakashi fan doesn't change that


----------



## JayK (Apr 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Juubi powerup amps Limbo? Based on what?





MaruUchiha said:


> Has nothing to do with Limbo swap


Holy fucking shit dude.

If you think JJ doesn't boost literally EVERYTHING about Madara to an insane degree then I don't know what to tell you.

Madara has virtually no chance her due to being massively inferior in stats + hax.

You can respond to a wall from now or just let it go.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Apr 29, 2019)

JayK said:


> Holy fucking shit dude.
> 
> If you think JJ doesn't boost literally EVERYTHING about Madara to an insane degree then I don't know what to tell you.
> 
> ...


Oh i won't be responding to you anymore. Like you said if you think Kakashi will be able to see, sense, or dodge, out the gate Limbo I don't know what to tell you.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 29, 2019)

If somebody doesn't know just how much Rikudou chakra buffs you, just look at Naruto and Sasuke. From getting smacked and barely reacting to a god-tier, to being able to blitz a stronger one (Sasuke) and also Naruto mentally reacting and DODGING a light-speed attack *EFFORTLESSLY*. Almost oneshotting said god-tier with 1 attack. The point here is not that Kakashi would react to Limbo, the issue is that Kakashi will be going straight for either: blitz, or Kamui snipe. And all those that are HURR DURR KAMUI WILL BE NEGGED BY LIMBO, Kakashi would literally use *BOTH* MS at the same time for an easy snipe. That's what makes DMS Obito scary, being able to be intangible while also snipping from a distance.


----------



## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Apr 29, 2019)

Just as he can create shuriken, DMS Kakashi can wield Kamui Makibishi. Madara and his limbo get a spike through the foot.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Apr 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> i'm fascinated by how wanked DMS Kakashi is


> Guy outperforms Rinnegan Sasuke against KAGUYA
> Guy reacts to Kaguyas attacks and outspeeds them
> Guy severely injures Kaguya
> Guy has hax capable of oneshotting any PS sized construct and he can spam this hax attack in groups
> "wanked"

Dude...


MaruUchiha said:


> He's gonna win against out the gate Limbo that he can't even see or sense


Yes

Because "out the gate Limbo" doesnt protect against the MASSIVE Kamui wormholes Kakashi si capable of making nor dooes Limbo help against the utterly fucking MASSIVE speed deficit Madara finds himself at

Madara can start with all 4 Limbo clones OUT already and standing right next to him, a single Kamui shuriken detonating within even 100 fucking feet of Madara and his clones fucks ALL OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME

Madara swapping places with them doesnt help in the slightest...The clones will be affected as well


MaruUchiha said:


> somehow gonna Kamui a guy who can sense it coming, dodge it with danger sense, and swap with Limbo clones


Again, you have no fucking idea how danger sense or speed works

Kakashi is TOO FAST for Madara. Period.

End of story.

Because Kakashi is arguably faster than JJ Madara ffs...But at bare minimum hes comparable to JJ Madara. Which means hes dumping on Pre JJ Madara.

Very basic shit.


MaruUchiha said:


> Because i'm not bias or a wanker?





MaruUchiha said:


> There's not a single way Kakashi can win here


No youre right

Theres not a SINGLE way kakashi wins here

There are MULTIPLE


----------



## Isaiah13000 (Apr 29, 2019)

DMS Kakashi wins, it doesn't matter if he can't see Limbo, because he blitzes Madara as soon as the fight starts with his vastly superior speed.


----------



## Omote (Apr 29, 2019)

It doesn't make a lick of sense that with a small fragment of Rikudo chakra, Kakashi was doing so well but it is what it is 

Madara gets slapped


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 29, 2019)

Omote said:


> It doesn't make a lick of sense that with a small fragment of Rikudo chakra, Kakashi was doing so well but it is what it is
> 
> Madara gets slapped


Actually it was so much that Obito was able to manifest a Shakujo


----------



## PrimeRichard (Apr 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Based on what? First of all that Limbo swap had nothing to do with physical reactions. Second since when does Juubi increase mental reactions?


Am sure madara just doesn't substitute his limbo. He have too process his taught on how many limbo he wants to summon or substitute. I don't think madara without been JJ can react to sasuke and naruto and substitute a limbo. JJ boost physical stats.


MaruUchiha said:


> Really @PrimeRichard? Kakashi is gonna warp all 4 Limbo clones then go on to warp Madara too? This doesn't sound bias to you? Kakashi will be dead by the 1st Limbo clone


Am saying that kamui shuriken or kamui raikiri will be fast for madara to react and substitute limbo and even if he did subtitute the shuriken will warp the limbo upon contact with madara since its fast

Maru but anyway we can still agree to disagree


----------



## UltimaDude (Apr 29, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Actually it was so much that Obito was able to manifest a Shakujo


The Shakujo is made from Black Zetsu


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 29, 2019)

UltimaDude said:


> The Shakujo is made from Black Zetsu


So using kuro zetsu as a literal gudodama (something characteristic for Juubi Jins) is not a feat of rikudou chakra?


----------



## UltimaDude (Apr 29, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> So using kuro zetsu as a literal gudodama (something characteristic for Juubi Jins) is not a feat of rikudou chakra?


That's not what I said nor imply. I was just letting you know that Obito didn't truly manifest a TSB.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

UltimaDude said:


> That's not what I said nor imply. I was just letting you know that Obito didn't truly manifest a TSB.


Yeah I know, I still see it as a feat of Rikudou chakra. Sure he used a different medium, but the result is essentially  the same.


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Rinnegan Madara comfortably wins. 

Limbo oneshots honestly....

PS @Android does kakashi have same limitations placed on him as in the manga,  by that I mean,  is his DMS time limited?


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> DMS Kakashi comfortably wins.
> 
> Kakashi speedblitzes honestly....


Here, fixed.


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Here, fixed.


And gets caught before even getting to madara by Limbo clone and dies thinking what is happening.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> And gets caught before even getting to madara by Limbo clone and dies thinking what is happening.


How? Kakashi speedblitzed Kaguya... Are you saying sage mode madara has kaguya tier reactions? He can literally phase through any attack with Kamui Raikiri, he won't realize the Limbo clones are there at all lol.


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> How? Kakashi speedblitzed Kaguya... Are you saying sage mode madara has kaguya tier reactions?


Just like how Madera intercepted Naruto. Now I know that Mascara was a JJ but it's wasn't a speed feat.  He has Limbo around as show when it suddenly caught Assume without  Madera even activating the jutsu. Besides even if he gets stabbed by raikiri,  Madera has regeneration.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> Just like how Madera intercepted Naruto. Now I know that Mascara was a JJ but it's wasn't a speed feat.  He has Limbo around as show when it suddenly caught Assume without  Madera even activating the jutsu. Besides even if he gets stabbed by raikiri,  Madera has regeneration.


Wait what? When did that happen?


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Wait what? When did that happen?


You mean madara  intercepting Naruto?  It was when naruto to tried to attack Madara with TSB staff


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> You mean madara  intercepting Naruto?  It was when naruto to tried to attack Madara with TSB staff


But he consciously activated the jutsu lol.


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> But he consciously activated the jutsu lol.


 Look at sasuke  Vs madara.  True madara can't keep his clone for long.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> Look at sasuke  Vs madara.  True madara can't keep his clone for long.



He consciously used it


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> He consciously used it


How do you explain sasuke getting caught?


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> How do you explain sasuke getting caught?


When?


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> When?


When Madara killed EMS Sasuke.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> When Madara killed EMS Sasuke.


 
Here, he specifically looks at him. So he is not really getting blindsided.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Here, he specifically looks at him. So he is not really getting blindsided.


True I concede on this particular point. But I still think madara wins unless this blitz can kill madara.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> True I concede on this particular point. But I still think madara wins unless this blitz can kill madara.


If this Raikiri pierces Madara's heart he would probably die (he has rikudou chakra after all), but that is not the only way Kakashi can win the fight, he can literally snipe his head off (with his right eye) while also being untouchable (with his left one).


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> If this Raikiri pierces Madara's heart he would probably die (he has rikudou chakra after all), but that is not the only way Kakashi can win the fight*, he can literally snipe his head off (with his right eye) *_while also being untouchable (with his left one).[/QUOTE
> _
> If he goes for heart.
> 
> ...


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

Yeah but Kakashi has shown superior speed and reactions while he was in this state. Kakashi was also willing to use Kamui the moment Tobi showed up (after MS Sasuke fight) while literally thinking he was Madara, while this Madara used Limbo only when cornered. @NanadaimhokageNU


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Yeah but Kakashi has shown superior speed and reactions while he was in this state. Kakashi was also willing to use Kamui the moment Tobi showed up (after MS Sasuke fight) while literally thinking he was Madara, while this Madara used Limbo only when cornered. @NanadaimhokageNU


But he didn't go for the heart against Kaguya or Obito when could have easily done so.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> But he didn't go for the heart against Kaguya or Obito when could have easily done so.


Obito? He did infact go for the heart lol. As for Kaguya, you are right, he managed to take her arm.


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Obito? He did infact go for the heart lol. As for Kaguya, you are right, he managed to take her arm.


No.  He hit hit his stomach.  He also forgot he had and assassination  tech in kamui  dimension when he hit his stomach.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> No.  He hit hit his stomach.  He also forgot he had and assassination  tech in kamui  dimension when he hit his stomach.


When did that happen?


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> When did that happen?


When obito  took kakashi to kamui dimension  when kakashi was about snipe Juubi


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> When obito  took kakashi to kamui dimension  when kakashi was about snipe Juubi


But Kakashi did infact go for his heart lol. Obito's seal that prevented him from becoming a Jinchuriki was inside his heart.


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> But Kakashi did infact go for his heart lol. Obito's seal that prevented him from becoming a Jinchuriki was inside his heart.


Only when it was necessary  for plot and every time kakashi went for the heart,  it did nothing.  Like against Kakuzu as well.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> Only when it was necessary  for plot and every time kakashi went for the heart,  it did nothing.  Like against Kakuzu as well.


It took one of Kakuzu's hearts? Meaning he killed him?


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> It took one of Kakuzu's hearts? Meaning he killed him?


He only went for the heart because it was the only way for the author to explain his give hearts. And he only went for the heart against obito the second time because it was the right time for the author to make obito a jj.

Why didn't kakashi go for the heart when obito took him to the kamui dimension  the first time around and he only hit him in the stomach.


P. S it seems like I'm just rambling  now.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> He only went for the heart because it was the only way for the author to explain his give hearts. And he only went for the heart against obito the second time because it was the right time for the author to make obito a jj.
> 
> Why didn't kakashi go for the heart when obito took him to the kamui dimension  the first time around and he only hit him in the stomach.
> 
> ...


That was inside a genjutsu lol.


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> That was inside a genjutsu lol.


No.  I'm taking about when only team Naruto was fighting against obito and madara.  When obito thought kakashi was out of chakra without know kurama had replenished his chakra.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> No.  I'm taking about when only team Naruto was fighting against obito and madara.  When obito thought kakashi was out of chakra without know kurama had replenished his chakra.


He only had the stamina for punches, don't forget he had to conserve chakra for a return trip.


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> He only had the stamina for punches, don't forget he had to conserve chakra for a return trip.


And this was stated or proved where?


----------



## Zembie (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> He only had the stamina for punches, don't forget he had to conserve chakra for a return trip.


Even Obito admitted that Kakashi could have killed him right there and then, but Kakashi refused because he still had hope for Obito.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Even Obito admitted that Kakashi could have killed him right there and then, but Kakashi refused because he still had hope for Obito.


No.  He was determined to kill obito by that time.


----------



## Zembie (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> No.  He was determined to kill obito by that time.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Even Obito admitted that Kakashi could have killed him right there and then, but Kakashi refused because he still had hope for Obito.


Coming to prove me wrong yet again.


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Zembie said:


>


And this? 

*Spoiler*: __ 



*Link Removed*


----------



## Zembie (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> And this?
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


But this is after Kakashi made up his mind? You were talking about when he was transported with Kurama's chakra. 

His heart is also completely destroyed in this panel, enabling him to become a Juubi Jinchuriki.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> And this?
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


Yep, his whole heart is obliterated here. That's why he was able to become a jinchuriki


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Zembie said:


> But this is after Kakashi made up his mind? You were talking about when he was transported with Kurama's chakra.
> 
> His heart is also completely destroyed in this panel, enabling him to become a Juubi Jinchuriki.


Give me the chapter number of the page you posted.  I wanna check it once again.


----------



## Zembie (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> Give me the chapter number of the page you posted.  I wanna check it once again.


Naruto Chapter 629

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Yep, his whole heart is obliterated here. That's why he was able to become a jinchuriki


And??


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> And??


Uhh, idk? He didn't hold back in this hit? I guess?


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Naruto Chapter 629


Yeah.  I take the L.


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Uhh, idk? He didn't hold back in this hit? I guess?


Hence why I said,  whenever  kakashi goes for the heart it's for plot progression and opponents  never died.


----------



## Zembie (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> Hence why I said,  whenever  kakashi goes for the heart it's for plot progression and opponents  never died.


That really isn't a sufficient argument tho.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> Hence why I said,  whenever  kakashi goes for the heart it's for plot progression and opponents  never died.


But we can't use the "plot" argument because battledome battles have no plot lol.


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Zembie said:


> That really isn't a sufficient argument tho.


Yeah but it can't be ignored either.


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> But we can't use the "plot" argument because battledome battles have no plot lol.


But IC character means the characters as they are in manga no?


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> But IC character means the characters as they are in manga no?


Yes but IC he went for Tobi (who he thought was Madara) straight for Kamui, while this Madara used Limbo only when cornered.


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Yes but IC he went for Tobi (who he thought was Madara) straight for Kamui, while this Madara used Limbo only when cornered.


But madara was not cornered  against sasuke no?


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> But madara was not cornered  against sasuke no?


He was occupied with Tobirama, no? Infact he didn't even do a full turn, he had to act quick.


----------



## NanadaimhokageNU (Apr 30, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> He was occupied with Tobirama, no?


A Tibetans pinned to the ground? 

Anyway let's stop this, I'm just wasting your time.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 30, 2019)

NanadaimhokageNU said:


> A Tibetans pinned to the ground?
> 
> Anyway let's stop this, I'm just wasting your time.


Okay, sure.


----------

