# 12 Years a Slave: film forcing US to face bitter truths



## Saishin (Nov 9, 2013)

> It has been hailed as a Schindler?s List for slavery, a long-overdue unflinching confrontation by Hollywood of the ?original sin? on which the United States was founded, writes Jon Swaine
> 
> The film 12 Years A Slave, the extraordinary story of a free man torn from his family in New York in 1841 and enslaved in the antebellum South ? which is out now in the US and released in Britain in January ? is even being tipped to become the first film by a black director to win the Oscar for best picture at the Academy Awards in March.
> 
> ...


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## Zaru (Nov 9, 2013)

> and while black people make up about 30 per cent of Americans


Say what now


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## Mael (Nov 9, 2013)

What harsh truths?  We've gone over the past of slavery since 1865...what more is there to discover and in the cases of dingbats either deny or guilt white people over?


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 9, 2013)

Mael said:


> What harsh truths?  We've gone over the past of slavery since 1865...what more is there to discover and in the cases of dingbats either deny or guilt white people over?



Why don't you chill out? This just hype for the movie more or less.


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## Mael (Nov 9, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Why don't you chill out? This just hype for the movie more or less.





> film forcing US to face bitter truths



This kind of crap.  I understand it's going to be good, but I can tell it's already going to be a shit article when it has to bust out Schindler's List.


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## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

Hey, remember when the US had slavery?

Yeah, me either.

Remember when China intentionally starved 40 million people to death?

A lot of people do!


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## Aging Boner (Nov 9, 2013)

> _"forcing the US to face bitter truths"_



lel yeah we forgot! Oh those silly blacks, always causing such a ruckus hahaha!



also, African Americans make up about 13% of the population not 30...


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## Zaru (Nov 9, 2013)

I think the Americans in this thread just understood how Germans felt for the second half of the 20th century.

"Yeah, I get it. Bad things were done. Don't do them again. Feel sorry forever. Can we concentrate on the future now?"


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## Aging Boner (Nov 9, 2013)

Zaru said:


> I think the Americans in this thread just understood how Germans felt for the second half of the 20th century.
> 
> "Yeah, I get it. Bad things were done. Don't do them again. Feel sorry forever. Can we concentrate on the future now?"



SHUT UP JEW KILLER!


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## Zaru (Nov 9, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> SHUT UP JEW KILLER!





U mad cuz I banged ur mum last night? Come on Untermensch, fite me 1on1, melee only
I'll wreck u like Poland


No but seriously where did that 30% of america statistic come from
Is that a typing mistake, 30 instead of 13
They sound similar


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## martryn (Nov 9, 2013)

The movie looks like it'll be good.  I will NEVER feel white guilt over slavery, though.  My family is from Austria and immigrated in 1911, before the bad shit in Europe, after the bad shit here.  My other half were either poor Irish farmers or Comanche.  Nothing to feel bad about anywhere.


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## Bioness (Nov 9, 2013)

> African-American teenage girl in the row behind leaned in and whispered to her friend: “Doesn’t it make you hate white people?”



And so the cycle starts all over again.

This kind of mindset is what is wrong with the black community today, they are all still mad about how bad slavery was because they all totally lived through it. This causes many of them to think the government still owes them for all those terrible things that never happened to them.


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## The Pink Ninja (Nov 9, 2013)

Shitty Telegraph is shitty.

Can;t recall the last time I read one of their articles and didn't roll my eyes.

This is just the kind of "Light to the world" jerking off I always go after when the Americans or French do it.


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## The Pink Ninja (Nov 9, 2013)

Blue said:


> Hey, remember when the US had slavery?
> 
> Yeah, me either.
> 
> ...



Yes, but you think a slave killing their owner to get away is murder so not one should listen to you on this.


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## Fujita (Nov 9, 2013)

martryn said:


> The movie looks like it'll be good.  I will NEVER feel white guilt over slavery, though.  My family is from Austria and immigrated in 1911, before the bad shit in Europe, after the bad shit here.  My other half were either poor Irish farmers or Comanche.  Nothing to feel bad about anywhere.



I don't get this at all.

You shouldn't feel guilty because whatever your ancestors did, it's not something that you're responsible for in any way. Whether they were slave owners or not. Can't choose to what family you happen to be born.


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## Bioness (Nov 9, 2013)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Yes, but you think a slave killing their owner to get away is murder so not one should listen to you on this.



In his defense, back then it _technically_ was, as it was unlawful and likely premeditated. While today it would be labeled under self defense.


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## Mael (Nov 9, 2013)

Bioness said:


> And so the cycle starts all over again.
> 
> This kind of mindset is what is wrong with the black community today, they are all still mad about how bad slavery was because they all totally lived through it. This causes many of them to think the government still owes them for all those terrible things that never happened to them.









Fujita said:


> I don't get this at all.
> 
> You shouldn't feel guilty because whatever your ancestors did, it's not something that you're responsible for in any way. Whether they were slave owners or not. Can't choose to what family you happen to be born.



Tell that to the modern social justice movement. 

The Internet has created a haven for that sort of retardation.


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## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Yes, but you think a slave killing their owner to get away is murder so not one should listen to you on this.



It is, you sick fuck. Two wrongs don't make a right.


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## Buskuv (Nov 9, 2013)

I know what they mean.

100% of the people I've ever known have both KNOWN about Slavery and have thought it to be WRONG and AWFUL.  Take that, you history revisionist Americans!


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 9, 2013)

> Of course, the British Empire played a leading role in the business of humans-as-livestock.



This is bullshit. The British went against massive and lucrative internal economic interests and against allies in leading the end of the slave trade and using the Royal Navy to inhibit it as much as possible, and ending it in the colonies.


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## Hozukimaru (Nov 9, 2013)

Ehm it's self defence in a way. I believe most courts would count it as such.


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## Mael (Nov 9, 2013)

MbS said:


> This is bullshit. The British went against massive and lucrative internal economic interests and against allies in leading the end of the slave trade and using the Royal Navy to inhibit it as much as possible, and ending it in the colonies.



And then you transferred all that treatment to the Irish.


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## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

MbS said:


> This is bullshit. The British went against massive and lucrative internal economic interests and against allies in leading the end of the slave trade and using the Royal Navy to inhibit it as much as possible, and ending it in the colonies.



Hey remember when the UK made slavery a crime?

You should, it was 3 years ago.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 9, 2013)

Mael said:


> And then you transferred all that treatment to the Irish.



Yeah, I don't get it.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 9, 2013)

Blue said:


> Hey remember when the UK made slavery a crime?
> 
> You should, it was 3 years ago.



Hey remember when the UK abolished the slave trade?

Hey remember when the UK abolished slavery.

Why'd the US take so much longer?

Yer rights?


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## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

MbS said:


> Hey remember when the UK abolished the slave trade?
> 
> Hey remember when the UK abolished slavery.
> 
> ...



No, you fucks bankrolling the South pretty much entirely with your cotton purchases. We had to _literally_ take slavery from their cold dead hands.

Hey, good looking out smuggling them weapons, too. Real stand-up move.


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## Zaru (Nov 9, 2013)

Guys

You're bickering about stuff that people you're not related to did over a 100 years ago


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## The Pink Ninja (Nov 9, 2013)

Bioness said:


> In his defense, back then it _technically_ was, as it was unlawful and likely premeditated. While today it would be labeled under self defense.



I mean in the sense of "unjustified killing"

I thought it was obvious enough not to need spelling out.



Blue said:


> It is, you sick fuck. Two wrongs don't make a right.



What are you, five? Is this the level of your moral reasoning?


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## corsair (Nov 9, 2013)

Blue said:


> Hey, remember when the US had slavery?
> 
> Yeah, me either.
> 
> ...



I bet at least 40 million people don't remember it.


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## Megaharrison (Nov 9, 2013)

Oh this is BS. I went to US schools after I turned 13 and every American history course bombards you with the truths of slavery. Also this movie does nothing that Roots didn't decades ago.

Also there was nothing remarkable about US slavery. Probably worse than European dab Spanish or Portuguese, not as bad as the Arab or Southeast Asian trades. Hell the Islamic slave trade still basically goes on and Qatar. Working 4,000 slaves to death for the World Cup.

and yeah I'm not feeling guilt for slavery either considering I didn't have any relatives come over until the 1970s. They were communists though, which is the part I'm guilty about.


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## Bioness (Nov 9, 2013)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I mean in the sense of "unjustified killing"
> 
> I thought it was obvious enough not to need spelling out.



Then it was murder, because there would usually be no need to kill "Masta", unless you just wanted to. And who would determine a "justified" murder? You? Judges? God?


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 9, 2013)

Blue said:


> No, you fucks bankrolling the South pretty much entirely with your cotton purchases. We had to _literally_ take slavery from their cold dead hands.
> 
> Hey, good looking out smuggling them weapons, too. Real stand-up move.



Yeah, except the UK simply purchased its cotton elsewhere: Egypt and the East Indies, when the South withheld its cotton supply. And As Union armies moved into cotton regions of the South in 1862, the U.S. acquired all the cotton available, and sent it to Northern textile mills or sold it to Europe.

So no, broo.

And the North only ended slavery for its own benefit, not wanting to compete against slave labour, not because they were empathetic or cared.


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## Pliskin (Nov 9, 2013)

Blue said:


> It is, you sick fuck. Two wrongs don't make a right.



>Accepts collateral damage to MAYBE curbstomp terrorism (As do I)

> condemns collateral damage to escape slavery

--> Whut?

I mean, you either go that ends justify means route or you don't. Choosing depending on your personal preferences seems kinda philosophically dishonest,

Just Saiyan


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## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

The Pink Ninja said:


> What are you, five? Is this the level of your moral reasoning?



No, it's the highest level of moral reasoning there is; clear and unambiguous jurisprudence. You are not allowed to perpetrate a crime in response to another crime.


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## Mael (Nov 9, 2013)

Megaharrison said:


> Oh this is BS. I went to US schools after I turned 13 and every American history course bombards you with the truths of slavery. Also this movie does nothing that Roots didn't decades ago.
> 
> Also there was nothing remarkable about US slavery. Probably worse than European dab Spanish or Portuguese, not as bad as the Arab or Southeast Asian trades. Hell the Islamic slave trade still basically goes on and Qatar. Working 4,000 slaves to death for the World Cup.
> 
> and yeah I'm not feeling guilt for slavery either considering I didn't have any relatives come over until the 1970s. They were communists though, which is the part I'm guilty about.



Nailed it.


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## Zaru (Nov 9, 2013)

Megaharrison said:


> Also there was nothing remarkable about US slavery.



The remarkable part is that they actually feel guilt for it. You don't see that happening much in the rest of the world.


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## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

MbS said:


> And the North only ended slavery for its own benefit, not wanting to compete against slave labour, not because they were empathetic or cared.



That's total bullshit. Even more bullshit than my bullshit implying the UK measurably contributed to the Civil War. At least twice as much.



> >Accepts collateral damage to MAYBE curbstomp terrorism (As do I)
> 
> > condemns collateral damage to escape slavery
> 
> ...


I think the ends can justify the means, but certainly not in all circumstances. If your master is about to take a sledgehammer to your shins because you tried to escape, fuck yeah kill his ass.
If your master is the US Department of Corrections, then you might want to reconsider.


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## kazuri (Nov 9, 2013)

> You're bickering about stuff that people you're not related to did over a 100 years ago



Youre narrowing the 'related to' specifically to bloodlines when that is only a small part of the picture. If families were made rich, if companies were made rich, and that money has been used to buy land, create more companies, etc etc. That is related to it. People running those families/companies are still profiting off of slavery because they were only able to create those companies etc because of it.

Same could be said about everyone basically, especially if we start talking about what was done to the native americans.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 9, 2013)

Megaharrison logic: not as bad as the worst so it doesn’t really matter.

Pretty much every post he now makes in the caf?.

Oh, and happy Kristallnacht MH!



Blue said:


> That's total bullshit. Even more bullshit than my bullshit implying the UK measurably contributed to the Civil War. At least twice as much.



Then prove me wrong.


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## Saishin (Nov 9, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> SHUT UP JEW KILLER!


Here we go  it has to be hard to be Austrian Zaru 


Megaharrison said:


> Oh this is BS. *I went to US schools* after I turned 13 and every American history course bombards you with the truths of slavery. Also this movie does nothing that Roots didn't decades ago.
> 
> Also there was nothing remarkable about US slavery. Probably worse than European dab Spanish or Portuguese, not as bad as the Arab or Southeast Asian trades. Hell the Islamic slave trade still basically goes on and Qatar. Working 4,000 slaves to death for the World Cup.
> 
> and yeah I'm not feeling guilt for slavery either considering I didn't have any relatives come over until the 1970s. They were communists though, which is the part I'm guilty about.


Still wondering if Mega is from America,Yemen or Israel


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## The Pink Ninja (Nov 9, 2013)

martryn said:


> The movie looks like it'll be good.  I will NEVER feel white guilt over slavery, though.  My family is from Austria and immigrated in 1911, before the bad shit in Europe, after the bad shit here.  My other half were either poor Irish farmers or Comanche.  Nothing to feel bad about anywhere.



Hopefully someone in this thread will get this (I know you won't).

They're (Mostly) not asking for you to feel guilty. They're asking for acknowledgement and recognition of the reality, not a "whitewash".

In the most simple terms I can put it, America and Americans (Mostly) expect each other to identify with the country a certain way, to have a certain identity, to be proud and patriotic. But it is hard for African-Americans to be proud of it when they're relegated to a side role or ignored.

I mean how are they supposed to feel when almost every source of education, culture and entertainment lionizes the Founders and many early Americans as paragons of virtue when they also kept slaves? Does that count for nothing against them? These people are on the money so they're still held to be great. Fuck, states have passed or have tried to pass laws basically outlawing teaching of these contrary parts of the "classic" shining American national narrative.

It's a question of identity. Black Americans don't fit in neatly with the dominant narrative and are either ignored or derided for not doing so.And this shit does not going away just because you ignore it. This shit isn't radiation, it;s not subject to a half-life or the laws of entropy and inertia.

Damn bitches getting so pissed when your stupid model of the world can;t possibly map onto the complications of the real thing *Muttermuttergrowlgrumblemutter*


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## Bioness (Nov 9, 2013)

Megaharrison said:


> Also this movie does nothing that Roots didn't decades ago.



Well I doubt this movie will begin a trend of African names that includes words like Kensi, Nay, Dra, Sha, Niqua, and Beyonce.


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## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

MbS said:


> Then prove me wrong.



How? As far as I know there aren't even any sources that say "Contrary to popular belief, the North didn't fight the civil war for economic reasons"

Because it's not popular belief

I have, in fact, never heard that retarded theory in my life

And every single fact of the Civil War contradicts it at every turn

US Senators were literally beaten close to death on the fucking senate floor over the issue, that doesn't happen because you're afraid your district might lose jobs


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 9, 2013)

You guys are sure making a deal out of pointless movie hype.


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## Havoc (Nov 9, 2013)

I don't know why you white devils won't just admit you're horrible "human" beings.


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## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

> I mean how are they supposed to feel when almost every source of education, culture and entertainment lionizes the Founders and many early Americans as paragons of virtue when they also kept slaves? Does that count for nothing against them? These people are on the money so they're still held to be great. Fuck, states have passed or have tried to pass laws basically outlawing teaching of these contrary parts of the "classic" shining American national narrative.



Please read MH's post, slavery guilt is shoved down our throats beginning in the 8th grade and it never stops

And I say this as someone who went to Florida's public schools


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## Zaru (Nov 9, 2013)

kazuri said:


> Youre narrowing the 'related to' specifically to bloodlines when that is only a small part of the picture. If families were made rich, if companies were made rich, and that money has been used to buy land, create more companies, etc etc. That is related to it. People running those families/companies are still profiting off of slavery because they were only able to create those companies etc because of it.
> 
> Same could be said about everyone basically, especially if we start talking about what was done to the native americans.


I'd be highly surprised if Blue or MbS directly profited from slavery for blood relation, land or company reasons, and simply living in a country that used slavery is not enough of a condition, otherwise you might as well say current Black americans profited from slavery.

And I have a 100% clear conscience since all my ancestors were hardworking farmers 


Saishin said:


> Here we go  it has to be hard to be Austrian Zaru



Yeah, it is. Living in a wealthy first world country is suffering.


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## Havoc (Nov 9, 2013)

Blue said:


> Please read MH's post, slavery guilt is shoved down our throats beginning in the 8th grade and it never stops
> 
> And I say this as someone who went to Florida's public schools



I went to a private school; we barely learned about slavery.

Upper class society doesn't know ^ (use bro) history.

Fact.


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## Bioness (Nov 9, 2013)

Havoc said:


> I went to a private school; we barely learned about slavery.
> 
> Upper class society doesn't know ^ (use bro) history.
> 
> Fact.



I can back this fact up.


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## kazuri (Nov 9, 2013)

> I went to a private school; we barely learned about slavery.



I find it hard to believe a private school didnt teach you how to make money at the expense of others.



> I'd be highly surprised if Blue or MbS directly profited from slavery for blood relation, land or company reasons, and simply living in a country that used slavery is not enough of a condition, otherwise you might as well say current Black americans profited from slavery.



enough of a condition for what? Im not saying theres anything that can be retroactively done about it. Just that EVERYONE is profiting off of slavery. Hell, if you own an iphone or wear nike shoes youre pretty much profiting off slavery right now.. And even blacks are/did profit from it. Im sure a lot of modern day companies 'everyone' uses only exist because of slavery. And for that matter I'm pretty sure there were blacks who owned slaves too.


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## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

I just got a small taste of how unbearable the pretentions of the wealthy can be.

Maybe I should apologize to Kaiba?

...nah, fuck that pleb.


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## The Pink Ninja (Nov 9, 2013)

Megaharrison said:


> Oh this is BS. I went to US schools after I turned 13 and every American history course bombards you with the truths of slavery. Also this movie does nothing that Roots didn't decades ago.
> 
> Also there was nothing remarkable about US slavery. Probably worse than European dab Spanish or Portuguese, not as bad as the Arab or Southeast Asian trades. Hell the Islamic slave trade still basically goes on and Qatar. Working 4,000 slaves to death for the World Cup.
> 
> and yeah I'm not feeling guilt for slavery either considering I didn't have any relatives come over until the 1970s. They were communists though, which is the part I'm guilty about.



1) I recall you saying slavery would have away without doing anything in a couple of decades when in fact it was the single most profitable part of the US economy in 1859 so excuse me if I treat everything you say on the topic like it was a press released from the Iranian Information Ministry.

2) Please stop trying to shoe-horn your Israel Internet Defense force shit into every fucking thread.

3) I've seen a lot more people say the opposite of this, that it was skipped over and they were amazed when they've heard it and with less motivation to than you and the reason of the proud and patriotic. There's also the ignorance of everyone in this thread and most Americans. So excuse me if I doubt that your education experience was a common one.



Bioness said:


> Then it was murder, because there would usually be no need to kill "Masta", unless you just wanted to. And who would determine a "justified" murder? You? Judges? God?



Well if it's justified it's not murder.

And such justification can only exist in a community setting. If you need to kill someone it's possibly necessary and moral from your own viewpoint. So I guess it would be up to things like the society at large and court and judges and philosophers to justify it.

But I had hoped by now everyone had figured out slavery is wrong. I'm starting to doubt that.



Blue said:


> No, it's the highest level of moral reasoning there is; clear and unambiguous jurisprudence. You are not allowed to perpetrate a crime in response to another crime.



So we're going from the childish to the none existent. Brilliant.



Zaru said:


> The remarkable part is that they actually feel guilt for it. You don't see that happening much in the rest of the world.



How that Holocaust guilt working out for you?



Blue said:


> I think the ends can justify the means, but certainly not in all circumstances. If your master is about to take a sledgehammer to your shins because you tried to escape, fuck yeah kill his ass.
> 
> If your master is the US Department of Corrections, then you might want to reconsider.



Do you even know what you're saying?


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## Hozukimaru (Nov 9, 2013)

I'm going to a public school. We talked about the europeans going to US for ~1 hour and about ~30 minutes about the US revolution and that's all the american history we've learned in these 9+ years.


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## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

> But I had hoped by now everyone had figured out slavery is wrong. I'm starting to doubt that.


Slavery is wrong, but so is murder.

If you murder my wife, should I enslave you?

As in I myself make you work, under punishment as I dictate, for my economic gain?

Since you seem incapable of higher reasoning, I'll supply the answer: No. 

At which point your enslavement endangers your life, it is now a matter of self defense and becomes justified.


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## Havoc (Nov 9, 2013)

I think we should just forget the negative parts about our past.

That's what I do in my personal life.


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## Mael (Nov 9, 2013)

> There's also the ignorance of everyone in this thread and most Americans.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr0xHf4yu1o[/YOUTUBE]

You don't spend three years aggregate on the Civil War and Revolutionary America and not learn the ins and outs of how fucked up slavery was.  If you're getting American testimony, then it's doubtless from the fucking South.


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## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

Hozukimaru said:


> I'm going to a public school. We talked about the europeans going to US for ~1 hour and about ~30 minutes about the US revolution and that's all the american history we've learned in these 9+ years.



Maybe you should have spent less time smoking in the bathroom?

Unless you want us to believe that in the 5,000 classroom hours an average American high schooler gets, they seriously gave you 1.5 hours of American history.


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## Rukia (Nov 9, 2013)

lol.  Wrong section.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 9, 2013)

Mael said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr0xHf4yu1o[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> You don't spend three years aggregate on the Civil War and Revolutionary America and not learn the ins and outs of how fucked up slavery was.  If you're getting American testimony, then it's doubtless from the fucking South.



Many people still call it the "War of Northern Aggression" here, such as a certain NRA figure.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 9, 2013)

Blue said:


> How? As far as I know there aren't even any sources that say "Contrary to popular belief, the North didn't fight the civil war for economic reasons"
> 
> Because it's not popular belief
> 
> ...



The north wanted to abolish slavery because they really didn't need slaves because the north was primarily industrial, so there really wasn't a need for them. Slave labour is cheap labour in contrast to running heavy industry and job creation. For the record the "North" didn't want to abolish slavery that was a Christian movement.



> US Senators were literally beaten close to death on the fucking senate floor over the issue, that doesn't happen because you're afraid your district might lose jobs



Just one; and he didn't die though not by lack of effort.


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## Zaru (Nov 9, 2013)

Havoc said:


> I went to a private school; we barely learned about slavery.
> 
> Upper class society doesn't know ^ (use bro) history.
> 
> Fact.



Afro-Moses asked "Where da white women at"
God answered "America"
Then the exodus began. Aaaaamen.



kazuri said:


> enough of a condition for what? Im not saying theres anything that can be retroactively done about it. Just that EVERYONE is profiting off of slavery. Hell, if you own an iphone or wear nike shoes youre pretty much profiting off slavery right now.. And even blacks are/did profit from it. Im sure a lot of modern day companies 'everyone' uses only exist because of slavery. And for that matter I'm pretty sure there were blacks who owned slaves too.


You might as well say "everyone who doesn't live in ascetic poverty profits from slavery". Gotta draw the line somewhere.



The Pink Ninja said:


> How that Holocaust guilt working out for you?


No worries, the germans took most of the backlash
As usual when Austria fucks something up


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## The Pink Ninja (Nov 9, 2013)

I mean damn, I thought that slavery was a pretty clear cut and dry case of an unacceptably evil practice. But apparently not. I mean if you can't justify the killing of slave holders how can you have a civil war to end it? And if you can't end it by violence how can you end it seeing as it's the most profitable thing since being a Mongol raider and twice as sustainable.

Where can I buy some slaves. You guys have got me to seriously reconsider.

...

Apparently fighting for your own personal freedom has to be conducted under some arcane legal philosophy that only mostly applies to you. You know, given as how slaves had no legal rights and could be beaten, maimed, killed or sold out hand. And that the legal system at the time decided that slaves who escaped to free states must be returned as property. Do you really expects slaves to do nothing but wait for someone else to free them? because that's how you've painted yourselves.

Before in the antisemitism thread I was embarrassed to hold the same political and philosophical positions as a dumb antisemite. Now I'm embarrassed to be the same same species. Maybe if I rack up some good karma I can be reincarnated as something more noble.

Like a tubeworm.


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## Mael (Nov 9, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Many people still call it the "War of Northern Aggression" here, such as a certain NRA figure.



Asking Southerners for accurate history is like asking Iranians about the existence of homosexuality.



> Apparently fighting for your own personal freedom has to be conducted under some arcane legal philosophy that only mostly applies to you. You know, given as how slaves had no legal rights and could be beaten, maimed, killed or sold out hand. And that the legal system at the time decided that slaves who escaped to free states must be returned as property. Do you really expects slaves to do nothing but wait for someone else to free them? because that's how you've painted yourselves.



Wait what...?


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## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

MbS said:


> The north wanted to abolish slavery because they really didn't need slaves because the north was primarily industrial, so there really wasn't a need for them. Slave labour is cheap labour. For the record the "North" didn't want to abolish slavery that was a Christian movement.



>Wanted to abolish because no need

Like the UK you mean


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## Havoc (Nov 9, 2013)

Here is how the history of slavery was taught:

We had slaves.

It was bad.

Then the more enlightened whites of the north defeated those evil southerners so blacks can have freedom.

Everyone lived happily ever after.


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## Mael (Nov 9, 2013)

Havoc said:


> Here is how the history of slavery was taught:
> 
> We had slaves.
> 
> ...



Well the part in bold was true.  The South does suck.


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## Rukia (Nov 9, 2013)

Just a dumb article. First off.  99% of the country will never see the film.  Next gripe.  Every country has moments in their history that they shouldn't be proud of.  And finally.  Why on earth is anyone current responsible for mistakes made hundreds of years ago?

Whole thread is a joke.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 9, 2013)

Blue said:


> >Wanted to abolish because no need
> 
> Like the UK you mean



The UK had nothing to benefit from abolishing slavery and enforcing it. That was noble.

The North did, and part of that is keeping the union intact and taking away from the South its control of a cheap labour force while the North depended on higher priced (white) labour. That was profit.

Again, abolishment for solely moral reasons was headed by a small group of northerners, mainly Bible thumper’s.


----------



## kazuri (Nov 9, 2013)

> You might as well say "everyone who doesn't live in ascetic poverty profits from slavery". Gotta draw the line somewhere.



Its true though. I bet everyone in here (including me) is using technology in their daily lives that comes from slave labor in china. Its just that everyones line is different(especially when they are making use of the items) Even me, I'm sure the lithium in my laptops battery comes from some chinese mines or something. Everyone is a hypocrite, including me. But at least I admit it, and dont draw some arbitrary line thats coincidentally right past what I exploit and enjoy.


----------



## MegaultraHay (Nov 9, 2013)

Threads like this are the reason this section is hated.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 9, 2013)

> Why on earth is anyone current responsible for mistakes made hundreds of years ago?



More than once I've seen this in this thread alone but I have yet to see anyone even arguing otherwise.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 9, 2013)

> Well the part in bold was true. The South does suck.



Dawww, always amusing watching Americans puff out their chests and act united when it’s good then quickly distancing themselves when it’s wrong.



MegaultraHay said:


> Threads like this are the reason this section is hated.



Help remedy it and stop posting here.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 9, 2013)

MegaultraHay said:


> Threads like this are the reason this section is hated.


Exactly.  This thread is idiotic.  Delete this shit.


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 9, 2013)

Havoc said:


> Here is how the history of slavery was taught:
> 
> We had slaves.
> 
> ...



>happily every after

>Detroit exists


----------



## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

MbS said:


> The UK had nothing to benefit from abolishing slavery and enforcing it. That was noble.
> 
> The North did, and part of that is keeping the union intact and taking away from the South its control of a cheap labour force while the North depended on higher priced (white) labour. That was profit.


I think you probably actually believe this shit

The North and the South were not in economic competition

In fact, the industrial North depended heavily on the raw materials the South provided, just like the UK (depended on raw materials, including those from the South, for its industries)

If you were so fucking noble, maybe you should have stopped purchasing materials hand over fist from slave nations?

Oh, wait, you couldn't, not while competing successfully with American industry


----------



## Savior (Nov 9, 2013)

Mael said:


> What harsh truths?  We've gone over the past of slavery since 1865...what more is there to discover and in the cases of dingbats either deny or guilt white people over?



There are no harsh truths? Is that what you're saying?


----------



## Sasuke_Bateman (Nov 9, 2013)

I don't understand why other races bring up the past  to guilt others with, it's not like other races uses the past as a way to brag about their superiority...


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 9, 2013)

Blue said:


> I think you probably actually believe this shit
> 
> The North and the South were not in economic competition
> 
> ...



Nobility without pragmatism is stupidity. And you?re unsurprisingly ignoring the UK?s actions refusing to recognise the Confederacy and the benefits this would have otherwise had for it.


----------



## Whirlpool (Nov 9, 2013)

I'm all for making America look like douchebags, but I'm feeling as if that they should be constantly reminded about the whole slavery thing is douchebaggy in itself. 

Don't see me whining to Englishmen.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 9, 2013)

Whirlpool said:


> Don't see me whining to Englishmen.



Show me on the doll where he touched you.


----------



## Whirlpool (Nov 9, 2013)

Mael said:


> And then you transferred all that treatment to the Irish.



Can...Can I...

Can I whine about Englishmen? 



MbS said:


> Show me on the doll where he touched you.



He touched my country with this hammer called Cromwell.


----------



## Whirlpool (Nov 9, 2013)

Me and Imagine are good friends because Jon Stark enslaved us.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 9, 2013)

the White Privilege in this thread is so palpable and butt hurt oh god   

has anyone actually seen this movie?


----------



## A. Waltz (Nov 9, 2013)

martryn said:


> The movie looks like it'll be good.  I will NEVER feel white guilt over slavery, though.  My family is from Austria and immigrated in 1911, before the bad shit in Europe, after the bad shit here.  My other half were either poor Irish farmers or Comanche.  Nothing to feel bad about anywhere.



lol.. so are you saying that the discrimination and racism that led up to the civil movement in 1960 isn't "bad shit" ?

lul. your family lived through that, here in the states. just because black people weren't slaves at the time doesn't mean they weren't treated like lesser people. 

trying to avoid "feeling bad" about shit.. im sorry but that is just so fucking ignorant. im not saying that you or your family should feel bad about anything if you weren't involved.. but to try to justify why it doesn't relate to you as an american.. lol.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 9, 2013)

> im not saying that you or your family should feel bad about anything if you weren't involved..



I haven't seen anyone make this demand, but that hasn't stopped some people from acting like that's the case.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 9, 2013)

Parallax said:


> the White Privilege in this thread is so palpable and butt hurt oh god
> 
> has anyone actually seen this movie?



Oh you've done it now son

One does not simply use the P word in a racially charged thread


----------



## Mael (Nov 9, 2013)

Savior said:


> There are no harsh truths? Is that what you're saying?



God you're dumb.

The context is what we already know from history and that while this will likely be a good movie, the last thing we need is some pretentious article shoving it in our face.  It's like going to the Germans and pressing it in their faces.


----------



## Mael (Nov 9, 2013)

Whirlpool said:


> Can...Can I...
> 
> Can I whine about Englishmen?



Yes please do so...we need to see the Irish perspective.



Parallax said:


> the White Privilege in this thread is so palpable and butt hurt oh god
> 
> has anyone actually seen this movie?



Rule #4: To be taken seriously, do not tumblrize one's viewpoint.


----------



## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

Hey Zaru, I bet you never saw Schindler's List, did you?

Fucking Aryan Privileged shitbag

in b4 Zaru is a jew
in during I'm a person of color
in after race or gender conferring any significant privilege next to wealth


----------



## Parallax (Nov 9, 2013)

you're tumblrizing just as much


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 9, 2013)

You are, Mael.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 9, 2013)

Blue said:


> Hey Zaru, I bet you never saw Schindler's List, did you?
> 
> Fucking Aryan Privileged shitbag
> 
> ...


Bitch I'm such a good goy, I've got physical copies of Schindler's List and Maus

Well being white is statistically relevant in relation to not living in a shithole
So check your "I can kind of get away with looking white" privilege, gringo


----------



## Megaharrison (Nov 9, 2013)

Let's all start a riot


----------



## Whirlpool (Nov 9, 2013)

Mael said:


> Yes please do so...we need to see the Irish perspective.



An Irish perspective on slavery? This is it.

Get over it.

Everyone enslaved everyone. Ireland's patron saint was enslaved by Irish pirates iirc and the African Kings of old enslaved their own people as well as their enemies, as did the Moors.

It's probably because it was so recent and racism is still ongoing.

Or black people just whinge a lot.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Nov 9, 2013)

Blue said:


> Hey, remember when the US had slavery?
> 
> Yeah, me either.
> 
> ...



What China have to do with this ????


----------



## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> What China have to do with this ????



Obviously I was derailing the discussion. Why do I have to explain these things?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 9, 2013)

Whirlpool said:


> An Irish perspective on slavery? This is it.
> 
> Get over it.
> 
> ...



It's because it became a multinational trade that had long-term ramifications that can be felt today. Furthermore, the ideology behind it was so much more different than conquering nations that enslaved their defeated enemies. One of which had major ramifications on how the world was shaped, even to this day.


----------



## Whirlpool (Nov 9, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It's because it became a multinational trade that had long-term ramifications that can be felt today. Furthermore, the ideology behind it was so much more different than conquering nations that enslaved their defeated enemies. One of which had major ramifications on how the world was shaped, even to this day.



I simply view it as something that was just...normal during history; such as killing and all that. 

Maybe it's because Ireland don't have much black people and the only time I ever hear about some talking about it is on TV in which either a white person feeling guilty about it or a black guy reminding someone about it: So I'm probably ignorant to the whole deal.



> It's because it became a multinational trade that had long-term ramifications that can be felt today.



That fell under the 'It was so recent part'. Slavery I am talking about was hundreds, if not thousands of years back and civil rights only came into play less than a hundred years ago.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Nov 9, 2013)

Blue said:


> Obviously I was derailing the discussion. Why do I have to explain these things?



and why you tried to derailling the discussion ????


----------



## Black Superman (Nov 9, 2013)

Bioness said:


> And so the cycle starts all over again.
> 
> This kind of mindset is what is wrong with the ings that never happened to them.
> black community today, they are all still mad about how bad slavery was because they all totally lived through it. This causes many of them to think the government still owes them for all those terrible things that never happened to them.



The only reason why they think they're owed anything is because they've shed too much blood, sweat and tears toiling in this country to think otherwise, but the reality is they'll never be white Americans and they'll will never gain acceptance from the dominant group. White people will find some way to discredit and otherize black people. If someone can't accept you for who you are, it's not you, it's them. You as a homosexual male should be able to understand a concept as simple as this. 

That is the folly of assimilation. When it comes to war and patriotism, race all of sudden doesn't matter, but when it comes time to cutting the american pie, white people get selfish and tribal and they forget the black guy who took their job is just as american as they are. 

If that one comment is suppose to be indicative of some inherent disfunction of the black community, then what can be interpreted of the millions of overtly anti-black statements on sites such as youtube, yahoo and narutoforum's very own? How does that reflect on the dominant society?

Is it really no surprise then that every so often you hear about some discrimination case or study that proves that anti-black discrimination is very much real and pervasive? despite America being a supposed shining beacon of equal opportunity. 

The question isn't whether or not blacks think they're entitled to government assistance or owed anything, it's that whites think they're so not deserving of such, therein-lies the problem. This comic sums it rather nicely. 



If black people bonded together on some malcolm x tip and built some wealth as a community then they're being separatists and derided as racists. If they don't, then guys like you bitch about black people not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and blacks being woefully dependent and such. 

 It's damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's time to face facts, people are going to be overly critical and hate on any move blacks make so fuck em.  Get money, fuck what the haters say.


----------



## Mael (Nov 9, 2013)

Parallax said:


> you're tumblrizing just as much





Seto Kaiba said:


> You are, Mael.



And...how?  Not once did I mention privilege or use some dipshit buzzwords.

I'm merely stating that using this movie to push some nonsense guilt or racial issue.


----------



## Whirlpool (Nov 9, 2013)

> they've shed too much blood, sweat and tears toiling in this country



Jesus Christ it's not like they're in Ancient Rome.

Modern America is pretty kewl to blacks apart from maybe the evil south.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 9, 2013)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> If black people bonded together on some malcolm x tip and built some wealth as a community then they're being separatists and derided as racists.



I'd like to see an example of someone that is taken seriously by the public/most americans/the media saying anything like that or the other things you claim "whites" do.
Otherwise it's more like "a concise history of blaming all whites for a part of the republican party"


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 9, 2013)

Whirlpool said:


> I simply view it as something that was just...normal during history; such as killing and all that.



It was one of the largest known slave trades in history, probably the largest period. Nations enslaving other nationals was a typical thing, but treatment and ideology behind this varied. Still an atrocious practice nonetheless, but context of the situations are important to consider. It did not help that alongside it the strides being made in civilization were misused to justify the trade, along with theological reasons, but that is more typical. 



> Maybe it's because Ireland don't have much black people and the only time I ever hear about some talking about it is on TV in which either a white person feeling guilty about it or a black guy reminding someone about it: So I'm probably ignorant to the whole deal.



I feel like people that cling to this idea that whites are obligated to feel 'white guilt' is no different from a black person thinking David Duke speaks for white Americans. It's taking that fringe and trying to use it to represent the majority. There is a stark difference between demand for awareness, and actual acknowledgment and the guilt people were moaning about in the first page. 



> That fell under the 'It was so recent part'. Slavery I am talking about was hundreds, if not thousands of years back and civil rights only came into play less than a hundred years ago.



The slave trade in America at least started centuries ago, and is strongly related to the civil rights movement here in the '60s at least. Not exactly sure how to put it...but you can't really separate the two as it was the attitudes that formed as a result of the earlier period that led to the events in the latter's period. A lot of the stereotypes that formed inbetween still persist today in spite of it too.




			
				Mael said:
			
		

> And...how? Not once did I mention privilege or use some dipshit buzzwords.
> 
> I'm merely stating that using this movie to push some nonsense guilt or racial issue.



Or maybe the movie is simply a man's story of his experience in slavery?

I can level with you and I'm going to, but I get real tired of almost every issue of race we get like this 'angry white male' syndrome from the same few people who poison the entire discussion because they get antsy over any mention of race.


----------



## Blue (Nov 9, 2013)

Modern America is 100% cool to anyone who has money

Which isn't a lot of blacks, which leads, I feel, to a lot of their feelings of discrimination.

They are being discriminated against; because they're plebs, not because they're black. 

Which is why you get Uncle Ruckus motherfuckers like Herman Cain and Charles Barkley who don't know what the fuck poor blacks are talking about; they have more money than god so they're treated 50 million times better than your average Jesus-fearing redneck southern white trash.

I don't think this is an ideal situation, but until you make people less greedy, I don't see how you're going to go about changing it, except to try to elevate more people to, at the very least, the middle class, including blacks.


----------



## Bishop (Nov 9, 2013)

Fuck the blacks, let us focus on how America golds the medal for largest genocide in recorded human history with its extermination of the Native Americans.


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 9, 2013)

Lulz, most of the natives were killed by disease long before the Europeans stepped up colonization. 


This thread will learn me not to come to the Cafe.


----------



## Megaharrison (Nov 9, 2013)

Bishop said:


> Fuck the blacks, let us focus on how America golds the medal for largest genocide in recorded human history with its extermination of the Native Americans.



Inadvertently killing people with disease really doesn't classify as deliberate genocide. US colonists were intent on taking land that native Americans frequently roamed on and treated them like shit obviously, but they had little understanding of disease/germs back then. You can tell the whole blankets story, but the blanket thing didn't kill ~10 million people.

Fact is eventually North America was going to come into contact with Eurasians, which meant chicken pox was going to begin to break out there regardless of the intent of the travelers.

Plus there are still multiple deliberate genocides that are still higher in deaths historically.


----------



## Xiammes (Nov 9, 2013)

> Please read MH's post, slavery guilt is shoved down our throats beginning in the 8th grade and it never stops
> 
> And I say this as someone who went to Florida's public schools



8th grade? Its been shoved down my throat since elementary, black history month was every month and occasionally we learn about other important events in history,like in November we learn how the white people screwed the Native Americans.


----------



## Deleted member 198194 (Nov 9, 2013)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBb5TgOXgNY[/youtube]

Privilege status:
[ ] Not checked
[x] Checked
[x] Tears shed
[x] i am truley sorry for your lots


----------



## Revolution (Nov 9, 2013)

I'm about to read the article, but based on the title alone, I'm calling bullshit.  The United States has the NAACP, Southern Poverty Law Center, hundreds of African-American history museums, and several academic programs studying exactly the subject of American Slavery.  This is not something that just appeared out of nowhere.

Just take the video above me, particularly the credits, for example.  _I don't agree with the video, but these have been talked about for a long time._

Edit:  Okay, misleading title.  Good movie review and good points.


----------



## Alwaysmind (Nov 9, 2013)

I think Jon Stewart made the point that it is interesting that the most accurate portrayal of slavery by Hollywood was done by a British director.


----------



## Mael (Nov 9, 2013)

afgpride said:


> [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBb5TgOXgNY[/youtube]
> 
> Privilege status:
> [ ] Not checked
> ...



Right now no box in my new apartment had a fuck to give.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 9, 2013)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> The only reason why they think they're owed anything is because they've shed too much blood, sweat and tears toiling in this country to think otherwise


You've shed blood, sweat and tears in your country for reasons that don't apply to people with similar non-race demographic attributes? How many people below retirement age do you know that did?



ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> but the reality is they'll never be white Americans and they'll will never gain acceptance from the dominant group. White people will find some way to discredit and otherize black people. If someone can't accept you for who you are, it's not you, it's them.


Why does this only apply to black americans? Because every major other minority is doing better despite not being the dominant group.
And here's a news flash: Most of the world has worse or equal opinions on blacks than first world whites do, don't think you'd be somehow better off as a minority elsewhere. Doesn't make discrimination right, of course, but stop blaming "whites". Even a lot of africans can't stand other african's guts, see tribal conflicts.



ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> That is the folly of assimilation. When it comes to war and patriotism, race all of sudden doesn't matter, but when it comes time to cutting the american pie, white people get selfish and tribal and they forget the black guy who took their job is just as american as they are.


You act like that doesn't apply to black americans or only to whites. When blacks are a majority somewhere, do you honestly think they don't favor themselves in the same way? By what logic would they be LESS looking out for each other than whites? Assuming they are somehow more virtuous would make you one huge racist, so don't go there.



ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> If that one comment is suppose to be indicative of some inherent disfunction of the black community, then what can be interpreted of the millions of overtly anti-black statements on sites such as youtube, yahoo and narutoforum's very own? How does that reflect on the dominant society?


It mostly reflects on the internet and the effects of anonymity. If you went on tumblr you'd think white males are the most hated group on earth, doesn't make it true.



ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> Is it really no surprise then that every so often you hear about some discrimination case or study that proves that anti-black discrimination is very much real and pervasive? despite America being a supposed shining beacon of equal opportunity.


Well no argument here, some racism still lingers and is hard to get rid of.

I'd like to ask you though:
Obviously Slavery was terrible, unjustifiable and we can be glad it's officially over, but do you honestly think YOUR life would be better if it never happened? Because chances are you'd never have been born, and otherwise would be living in a badly developed part of Africa now. If you think that's better than your current life, be my guest. Slavery is the reason you can waste time arguing on an anime forum 



afgpride said:


> [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBb5TgOXgNY[/youtube]



I love this one

"Standardized Tests" as a hurdle

How do we culturally appropriate math?  It's the same bullshit they used when girls did worse at tests


----------



## Deleted member 198194 (Nov 9, 2013)

Mael said:


> Right now no box in my new apartment had a fuck to give.


Typical privileged racist white scum.


----------



## Hozukimaru (Nov 9, 2013)

Blue said:


> Maybe you should have spent less time smoking in the bathroom?
> 
> Unless you want us to believe that in the 5,000 classroom hours an average American high schooler gets, they seriously gave you 1.5 hours of American history.



I don't smoke. 

3rd grade of elementary school: mythology, stone age and history up until 1,100 BC.
4th grade of elementary school: 1,100 BC until the age of Rome
5th grade of elementary school: Age of Rome until 1,450 AD
6th grade of elementary school: 1,450 up to current age (includes an hour about French and US revolutions and one hour about european discoveries including america)
1st grade of jr high: Stone age to age of Rome
2nd grade of jr high: Age of Rome to age of enlightenment (includes an hour about european discoveries including america)
3rd grade of jr high: Age of enlightenment to current age (includes an hour about the US revolution, another hour about changes in the 19th century where it includes changes in US)
1st grade of high school: Ancient egypt, that's all we've done up to now

All in all ~3 classroom hours for US. Conclusion: our history books don't give a darn about US. x'D

Not sure why you won't believe it, unless you were thinking that i am from US.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 9, 2013)

Slavery is nothing.

Lets talk about all the Native Americans the White devils killed, and raped.


----------



## Mael (Nov 9, 2013)

Zaru said:


> " "



Thing is...he doesn't even recognize Hispanics and especially Asians.  I don't know what it is, but Asians got a ton of shit too especially with internment camps, yet they keep climbing the ladder.



> I love this one
> 
> "Standardized Tests" as a hurdle
> 
> How do we culturally appropriate math?  It's the same bullshit they used when girls did worse at tests



Standardized tests are hit or miss.  I personally suck at standardized tests and only my high school GPA got me into the university I wanted.

Though to be fair, there should be greater funding for education.  I think half the reason is because many kids, especially urban kids, never see getting an education as profitable because a) it's never taught and b) that the outside life of hustling is immediate gratification.



afgpride said:


> Typical privileged racist white scum.


----------



## navy (Nov 9, 2013)

Will you guys please shut the fuck up?

The telegraph is shit, and most people besides inbred retards are not in the business of ignoring the "hard truths" of Slavery. 

And look at foreigners coming in here with their holier than thou shit once again.  

Fuck off.

This movie was the shit by the way. If you dont want to see it because of white guilt....well that's on you.


----------



## dynasaur (Nov 9, 2013)

I find it disturbing that black people are still in the bottom of the socio-economic ladder seeing as America's is (or was I don't really know) one of the richest country in the world, they should be at the top in terms of education and wealth.


----------



## navy (Nov 9, 2013)

Codea said:


> I find it disturbing that black people are still in the bottom of the socio-economic ladder seeing as America's is (or was I don't really know) one of the richest country in the world, they should be at the top in terms of education and wealth.



The fuck is the shit? Poverty cycles. People are far too focused on race. Poor whites stay poor. Poor blacks stay poor. Poor Asians get denied into Harvard and then open up nail salons staying poor.


----------



## Edward Newgate (Nov 9, 2013)

Zaru said:


> U mad cuz I banged ur mum last night? Come on Untermensch, fite me 1on1, melee only
> I'll wreck u like Poland
> 
> 
> ...


A true ?bermensch would never bang an Untermensch's mom!


----------



## Taco (Nov 10, 2013)

My univ had a special screening of the movie like early last month, so I went and saw it. It's actually a pretty good film. McQueen doesn't sell his audience short. There are a lot of hard parts to watch but they're necessary to portray this one man's (Northrup's) history.

One thing that bugged me was Pitt's character is supposed to be from Canada but he speaks with a southern accent... I was like ok brad.

As for forcing Americans to face bitter truths... It draws some parallel with what went on then and what goes on now in America, but for the most part the film is just one man's story. I did feel a bit of a "modern day slavery exists" message coming out at me though.


----------



## Lurko (Nov 10, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Slavery is nothing.
> 
> Lets talk about all the Native Americans the White devils killed, and raped.



Yup coming from someone of german, polish, native american, ans puerto rican descent, the native americans got treated far worse and africans weren't the only slaves.


----------



## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Stupid bitches in here comparing pain. Since I'm black/native American my ancestors must win the pain game?


----------



## Lurko (Nov 10, 2013)

Go ask the jews, irish, africans, native americans, the point I'm trying to make is all the other races didn't let the slavery card hold them down shit it seems the jews got stronger from it lol.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Go ask the jews, irish, africans, native americans, the point I'm trying to make is all the other races didn't let the slavery card hold them down shit it seems the jews got stronger from it lol.



This is fucking stupid. Blacks didn't either, as a matter of fact, the communities you know as ghettos today were thriving after the Civil War. It was that fear of these communities prosperity that brought forth Jim Crow, as you began to see an advancement to where descendants of slaves and former ones themselves even gaining enough to move into white neighborhoods (of which the term 'white flight' derives from); which obstructed any ability for blacks for decades to advance socially and is obviously going to have repercussions today since it wasn't even a lifetime ago that the last of such laws were abolished.

How slow are some of you people?


----------



## Lurko (Nov 10, 2013)

I'm not trying to be a dick then how can you explain why african americans tend to to do worse finnacially then all the others and where ever you go they always bring up racial shit.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> I'm not trying to be a dick then how can you explain why african americans tend to to do worse finnacially then all the others and where ever you go they always bring up racial shit.



Are you like, being stupid on purpose? I just gave the most basic explanation for the current situation of many black communities in America. 

"Wherever you go they always bring up racial shit"? How fucking ironic for you to say that considering your notions on them.


----------



## Lurko (Nov 10, 2013)

Another thing man you need to chill, not all of us research this shit and I'm just going by personal experience .


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

That's kind of the problem here. I mean, we have a huge shitstorm in this thread about people basically saying "WE KNOW WE KNOW" and it turns out so many still don't.


----------



## Lurko (Nov 10, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Are you like, being stupid on purpose? I just gave the most basic explanation for the current situation of many black communities in America.
> 
> "Wherever you go they always bring up racial shit"? How fucking ironic for you to say that considering your notions on them.



Explain more on the jim crow laws.


----------



## Marth6789 (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> You've shed blood, sweat and tears in your country for reasons that don't apply to people with similar non-race demographic attributes? How many people below retirement age do you know that did?
> 
> 
> Why does this only apply to black americans? Because every major other minority is doing better despite not being the dominant group.
> ...



Im going to stop you right now you racist prick.

You always show your true colors Zaru. Slavery wasnt just bad because it set back the the slaves in america, the transatlantic slave trade was detrimental to the whole continent. An estimated 35 million people were believed to have been never born because of the trade. 

Before colonization African societies were thriving just fine. You realize africa had democracy before Europe right? Military structure shitting on anything the superior europens created at the time right?

There is so much gold in west africa you can literally pick it up in your back yard, and you are telling me that if slavery hadn't occurred that we'd be idiots living in shitty conditions?

You have life fucked up and as a person of African descent I can tell you all the little notions stuck in your shitty little head won't stop the new generation on the come up.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Explain more on the jim crow laws.



Well the concept behind segregation most notably, and practically any right we take for granted today. Holding jobs, or starting a business, moving into particular neighborhoods, education, and voting of course. It dealt with restricting practically every aspect of life, as far as blacks go. The explicit desire was to cause long-term damage to any ability for blacks to succeed, particularly because Southerners and labor workers in the North were either fearful or resentful of these communities establishing themselves and getting jobs people from these areas traditionally held. 

Considering that the last of them were only done away with in the '60s, and that Americans in general often die in the income bracket they are born in, and that poverty is often a cycle of factors perpetuating themselves does it become more clear why not only blacks, but most Americans are where they are today?


----------



## Gunners (Nov 10, 2013)

These topics are good for spotting the individuals who do not know/believe they are racist.


----------



## Lurko (Nov 10, 2013)

Everyone is racist to an extent, crap I'm  rascist to everyone in the sense when someone from race does something I think well not suprised.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 10, 2013)

^ What are you trying to say here?


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Nov 10, 2013)

Oh my god. When black people act as if they are still oppressed, and blame all their miscomings on their race...


----------



## martryn (Nov 10, 2013)

> Considering that the last of them were only done away with in the '60s, *and that Americans in general often die in the income bracket they are born in*, and that poverty is often a cycle of factors perpetuating themselves does it become more clear why not only blacks, but most Americans are where they are today?



This statement is misleading, if not outright false.  Statistically Americans move through the income brackets throughout their lives, typically starting low, moving higher, and then moving lower again in retirement.  And while they might die again in the same income bracket (making your statement true), they only do so because their retirement funding pays out less than what they were making when they were working full time.

Of course, you could have meant _wealth_ bracket, which is an entirely different thing, and in which case you'd be absolutely wrong.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Blue said:


> We had to _literally_ take slavery from their cold dead hands.



There is no 'we', Blue. All you ever fucking did was sit your nerdy ass behind a computer screen and act like you had something to do with history back then. 



Mael said:


> What harsh truths?


Idk, maybe the same stuff most people learn in their history classes over slavery back then.



Bioness said:


> And so the cycle starts all over again.



Starting with someone's who is ashamed of his own ethnicity.


----------



## Megaharrison (Nov 10, 2013)

Marth6789 said:


> Im going to stop you right now you racist prick.
> 
> You always show your true colors Zaru. Slavery wasnt just bad because it set back the the slaves in america, the transatlantic slave trade was detrimental to the whole continent. An estimated 35 million people were believed to have been never born because of the trade.
> 
> ...



I hope you're not serious abut this whole African democratic utopia thing. You do realize slavery was and is a huge deal in Africa, and even the jerkass brutal European imperialists tried over and over to get it banned in their colonies to little avail. French in particular tried to get rid of slavery in Senegal but it never stuck with the locals. Hell _fascist Italy_ banned the mass feudalism that existed in Ethiopia when they conquered the country before WW2.

And yes of course not all European powers did this. Belgians were nanners in the Congo and has mass slavery while the Germans were being typical Germans in south-west Africa. But Belgians suck and Germans had a boner for  being brutal until it got bombed out of them.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Marth6789 said:


> Im going to stop you right now you racist prick.
> 
> You always show your true colors Zaru. Slavery wasnt just bad because it set back the the slaves in america, the transatlantic slave trade was detrimental to the whole continent. An estimated 35 million people were believed to have been never born because of the trade.
> 
> ...



Oh no, the butthurt patrol is here 

The last time you said I "showed my true colors" I asked you to explain yourself and you curiously disappeared off the face of the earth. Nice catchphrase. Maybe make it mean something next time.

First of all, 35 million people "believed" to not have been born? Not even gonna ask for a source for that, do you even realize most of Africa has an overpopulation problem, high birthrates and low life expectancy? What would MORE of them improve? Not to mention significantly more than 35 million were born in the USA. 

"Thriving just fine"  Alright, you sound like a full on afrocentrist revisionist. Bet you think Mozart was black too, and that South Africa would have any notable farming or civilization without the Afrikaners.
Not to mention how incredibly stupid your generalization of "Africa" is, attributing the best parts of some areas to the whole huge fucking continent. Different parts of the continent were at different stages of development, from full fledged kingdoms to tribes living in mud huts. Most slaves/ancestors of slaves were living in tribal societies that waged war against each other, much good that "democracy and military power" did them right?
Now listen, nobody's denying that non-africans, most notably europeans, fucked shit up in Africa. Waged and fueled war, exploited resources and all that shit. The arbitrary border drawing for african countries has obviously done nothing to improve the situation.

And you know what else is a pretty damn good source of money, which made most non-african countries that have it richer than gold could, and faster? Oil. Wonder how that turned out? Ask Nigeria and its pollution/corruption problems. 

And keep your butthurt to yourself, where'd you get the idea that I have a problem with blacks "coming up"? Is that it? I'm white and I don't believe in the magic fairy tale that africa was an upcoming wonderland of riches and beacon of democracy and development, so I want to "keep da black man down"?


----------



## martryn (Nov 10, 2013)

> Starting with someone's who is ashamed of his own ethnicity.



White pride, you must be a racist.
Black pride, you're proud of your culture.

I like how being black gets you known as that black guy, and that's racist, but by ignoring the fact that you're black makes you ashamed.  This is the predicament of white America.  There is no right answer.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru is always keeping me down.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Iron Man said:


> Zaru is always keeping me down.



Being a privileged white male oppressor is hard work. I've only whipped 15 slaves today and I'm already exhausted. Why doesn't the government support job creators like me?


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Being a privileged white male oppressor is hard work. I've only whipped 15 slaves today and I'm already exhausted. Why doesn't the government support job creators like me?



You didn't meet your 25 slaves quota.


----------



## Blue (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> There is no 'we', Blue. All you ever fucking did was sit your nerdy ass behind a computer screen and act like you had something to do with history back then.



Well, I wasn't going to respond to all this "WHAT DO YOU CARE IT HAPPENED BEFORE YOUR GRANDPARENTS WERE BORN" stuff, but congratulations, you trolled it out of me.

I don't care. I don't think MbS did either. We were simply having a go at each other's nationalism and knowledge of history for a fun intellectual exercise while ya'all bitches are sitting here wondering why we're arguing.

Because we can. It's fun. For someone whose knowledge of history is limited to 9/11 and air dates of Jersey Shore episodes, it may appear confusing.

It's okay. Just shut up.


----------



## Black Superman (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> You've shed blood, sweat and tears in your country for reasons that don't apply to people with similar non-race demographic attributes? How many people below retirement age do you know that did?
> 
> 
> Why does this only apply to black americans? Because every major other minority is doing better despite not being the dominant group.
> ...



I'm not even going to address any of the points you've made because I feel like your argument consists of little more than derails and hand washed justifications,  I find that sort of logic tragically bankrupt. It's the sort of world view that excuses tragedies because of some unintentional silver-lining. It is lowering the bar in the worse way imaginable. I don't think colonization and slavery was necessary for the advancement of anyone. Now, I think Africa would have been better off if Africans viewed Europeans as threats and kicked them out and did the whole Meiji thing. Africans are far too trusting of non-blacks and their intentions.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

I'm not justifying anything dude, the world would have been better off in the long run if we had all just traded peacefully, exchanged goods and knowledge etc. and let education/rising economies take care of all the conflict.

It's no secret that the wealth of first world countries is temporarily bought with the wealth of the others, but hey it's not like I could pick where I was born either


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Blue said:


> blahblahblah
> 
> Because we can.



Hahaha, look at this tryhard trying to save face and having the audacity to say others are trolling.

_I _don't have that much of an ego to take the credit of people 100 years ago. 

And there is no such thing as ya'all btw.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Nov 10, 2013)

Funny how Flow's go to is 'saving face' wonder if be knows we are for the most part anonymous people on the internet?


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Because obviously being on the internet puts everyone underneath the same mindset that they don't have to try to impress their internet friends, or lash back towards others to win an argument. 

In other news,



Iron Man said:


> Oh my god. When black people act as if they are still oppressed, and blame all their miscomings on their race...





Iron Man said:


> You didn't meet your 25 slaves quota.





Iron Man said:


> Funny how Flow's go to is 'saving face' wonder if be knows we are for the most part anonymous people on the internet?





Seto Kaiba said:


> How slow are some of you people?


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Nov 10, 2013)

Those quotes are supposed to mean? 

It is pathetic when black people have a chip on their shoulder, and are so unfortunate because everyone has it out for them solely for being black.


----------



## Blue (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> Because obviously being on the internet puts everyone underneath the same mindset that they don't have to try to impress their internet friends, or lash back towards others to win an argument.



For those of us who aren't 6 years old, it kinda does.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

You can formulate your own opinion from reading the sequence of those quotes.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Nov 10, 2013)

Open ended in an attempt to not make yourself look dumb? Hmm, I see.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Blue said:


> For those of us who aren't 6 years old, it kinda does.



Well, I don't know. There are people who argue on the internet, and act like children saying "we" when referring to the status of countries over 100 years ago, and argue about the most inane shit and says "because we can" when questioned, while making your general Jersey Shore jokes (as if it's relevant in any way) or whatever that show is called.

Soooo. 



> Open ended in an attempt to not make yourself look dumb? Hmm, I see.



Yeah, sure.


----------



## Havoc (Nov 10, 2013)

Codea said:


> I find it disturbing that black people are still in the bottom of the socio-economic ladder seeing as America's is (or was I don't really know) one of the richest country in the world, they should be at the top in terms of education and wealth.



The majority of America isn't at the top in terms of education and wealth.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Nov 10, 2013)

Can't deny leaving an answer up to the other party a copout.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

You still have people that think the status of groups of people can significantly change in the course of 40-60 years, so it's whatever. haha.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> You still have people that think the status of groups of people can significantly change in the course of 40-60 years, so it's whatever. haha.


You mean like the entirety of women in the West?


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

You have different opinions of people, and different perceptions as well. Not everyone is looked at as the same in societies, even if they are both looked down upon.


----------



## Incognito (Nov 10, 2013)

Heres an even better counter example (as it is an ethnicity) than Zarus: The Ashkenazi Jews who, in a matter of about a century (during their emancipation in Europe), went from being in the marginalized fringe of society to the most successful single ethnic group in the west in virtually every domain of society they significantly participate in. As a matter of fact, even when the Ashkenazi Jews were marginalized and discriminated against they were still a relatively successful population in Europe amongst themselves, just barred from the mainstream of society. The idea that historical discrimination in the past should somehow affect the performance of a population in the present given equal opportunity is a fckin joke.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Nov 10, 2013)

JEWS ARE JUST A MYTH!!!1!


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Incognito said:


> Heres an even better counter example (as it is an ethnicity) than Zarus: The Ashkenazi Jews who, in a matter of about a century (during their emancipation in Europe), went from being in the marginalized fringe of society to the most successful single ethnic group in the west in virtually every domain of society they significantly participate in. As a matter of fact, even when the Ashkenazi Jews were marginalized and discriminated against they were still a relatively successful population in Europe amongst themselves, just barred from the mainstream of society. The idea that historical discrimination in the past should somehow affect the performance of a population in the present given equal opportunity is a fckin joke.



That's an oversimplification though.

Ashkenazi Jews were pretty much forced into educated occupations and had to find ways to thrive in countries that were often hostile to them (and could do so, because they were not slaves), so within that group, a selection towards intelligence took place over centuries, driving up their IQ above any other comparable group. There is no other sensible explanation for this IQ difference, accounting for the average IQ of non-Ashkenazi Jews within Israel, for example, which is notably lower.
So the past can very much influence the performance of a group in the present, as externally enforced living situations influence "natural selection" within that group.

Now commence the inevitable butthurt from the implications this has for the group performance of slave descendants in america. (Note the difference between averages and individuals)


----------



## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Who's truth? 

Your truth?


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

You're free to challenge it with arguments and facts

This is an open discussion after all


----------



## Incognito (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> That's an oversimplification though.
> 
> Ashkenazi Jews were pretty much forced into educated occupations and had to find ways to thrive in countries that were often hostile to them (and could do so, because they were not slaves), so within that group, a selection towards intelligence took place over centuries, driving up their IQ above any other comparable group. There is no other sensible explanation for this IQ difference, accounting for the average IQ of non-Ashkenazi Jews within Israel, for example, which is notably lower.
> So the past can very much influence the performance of a group in the present, as externally enforced living situations influence "natural selection" within that group.
> ...




Im aware, the problem is to most of these guys Science and evidence are only good insofar as they fit in with their ideological sensibilities. I mean, didn't you know, any test whatsoever, including measures of fluid intelligence like non-verbal IQ tests (which are designed to be "culture free"), are automatically biased against groups that don't do so well in them. Hence why I tried prompting explanations for the Ashkenazi success as compared to Blacks despite historical persecution/discrimination.


----------



## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> You're free to challenge it with arguments and facts
> 
> This is an open discussion after all



1.fact? open discussion okay

You don't even stay in Merica let alone the south so no surprise you don't really know what you're talking about. Pretty damn easy...

If I'm wrong tell me I'm wrong then I'll take it from there but if I'm not........


Now I wait for someone to try and save your ass.


----------



## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

MFW: Born in the South, come from Irish Scottish and mexican background. Both sides of my Family owned slaves and fought for the confederacy. Decades later I'm born into a town which is 55% Black. Black women flock to me for some reason. And I've never felt White guilt even when the only people I meet with same last name as me are black. Sorry but the past is the past and its 2013. But funny thing is I have never had any problems with any black people, ever. They have so far been the one Group of people tha has never done a thing to me. and mostly they disliked the same people i disliked.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Which parts of what I said require me to live in the american south?  Not to mention that living there would extremely bias one's view through everyday experiences, one way or another.


----------



## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Geezus said:


> MFW: Born in the South, come from Irish Scottish and mexican background. Both sides of my Family owned slaves and fought for the confederacy. Decades later I'm born into a town which is 55% Black. Black women flock to me for some reason. And I've never felt White guilt even when the only people I meet with same last name as me are black. *Sorry but the past is the past and its 2013*.


This is what kills me if the pass was truly the past none of the bullshit still happening_ because of the past_ would be happening today amirite?



Zaru said:


> Which parts of what I said require me to live in the american south?  Not to mention that living there would extremely bias one's view through everyday experiences, one way or another.



Nope.jpeg give me a better answer.


----------



## The World (Nov 10, 2013)

White people were the first to abolish slavery too


----------



## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Blue said:


> Your avatar looks like a huge penis
> 
> Appropriate, really
> 
> But you're the sort of person I'd expect to run into people with close to triple-digit-higher IQs than yourself and call ignorant



Feel better?It's okay.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> Nope.jpeg give me a better answer.


Your entire argument is "you're not a southern US-american so I do not accept what you say" so I got nothing to prove to you
You decided you wouldn't listen from the start


----------



## Blue (Nov 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> Feel better?It's okay.



Nooooot really.

But I was feeling pretty good to start with, so it's okay.


----------



## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Your entire argument is "you're not a southern US-american so I do not accept what you say" so I got nothing to prove to you
> You decided you wouldn't listen from the start



lol argument in every thread regarding race you're always in the thread saying some off the wall shit. So tell me are you really worth listening too?

I don't play by cafe rules......sorry


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Blue said:


> Your avatar looks like a huge penis



Are we doing this now

well ok

Your sets usually suck. 



> lol argument in every thread regarding race you're always in the thread saying some off the wall shit. So tell me are you really worth listening too?



Or bringing up the word feminazis every chance he gets, haha.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 10, 2013)

Mormons have their own state so I’m pretty sure the federal government could come up with something for African Americans.

How about Alaska?

And what I see from the likes of Zerothedestroyer is the tired old demand for _equal amounts _when it should be _equal opportunity_ they should go for.


----------



## Saishin (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Yeah, it is. Living in a wealthy first world country is suffering.


With this crisis things now became less wealthy and more suffering but I think it's not the case of Austria,there is no crisis there right?  



Le M?le Dominant said:


> What China have to do with this ????


Btw Chinese weren't used like some sort of slaves in the construction of the American railways  

China has always to do with something 


Blue said:


> Modern America is 100% cool to anyone who has money


So I wonder what America is for those without money


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> Or bringing up the word feminazis every chance he gets, haha.



You must be a black feminazi
The final boss has arrived





Saishin said:


> With this crisis things now became less wealthy and more suffering but I think it's not the case of Austria,there is no crisis there right?


We just found out (weeks after the election) that 30 billion euros are missing from the budget and nobody knows why
Adjusting for population that's 1.5 trillion going missing from the US budget

We're fucked


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Is anyone even listening to MbS haha, 

Hasn't he stated he wouldn't serve black people if they came into his shop or something.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> You must be a black feminazi
> The final boss has arrived



haha, this actually made me laugh. Never mind the fact that you're trying to use humor to slither yourself out of this.


----------



## Marth6789 (Nov 10, 2013)

Megaharrison said:


> I hope you're not serious abut this whole African democratic utopia thing. You do realize slavery was and is a huge deal in Africa, and even the jerkass brutal European imperialists tried over and over to get it banned in their colonies to little avail. French in particular tried to get rid of slavery in Senegal but it never stuck with the locals. Hell _fascist Italy_ banned the mass feudalism that existed in Ethiopia when they conquered the country before WW2.
> 
> And yes of course not all European powers did this. Belgians were nanners in the Congo and has mass slavery while the Germans were being typical Germans in south-west Africa. But Belgians suck and Germans had a boner for  being brutal until it got bombed out of them.



No, Im referring to when the initial colonists came to the kingdoms on the west coast, they noted that their societies elected officials at the head and had what you can consider an early form of a congress.The chief wasn't some divinely attributed person, he still had to answer to his people. 

You went on a rant about all this stuff im not even talking about. Im getting at Zaru because he made the asinine notion that without slavery people in africa would be in huts without any sort of knowledge of what is going on around them.


----------



## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

How about all people WHO just want to live around White people only, can just move somewhere gay, like san francisco or the midwest...


----------



## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Mbs is in the thread?


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

> Zaru because he made the asinine notion that without slavery people in africa would be in huts without any sort of knowledge of what is going on around them



Look, you don't have to explain yourself. Anyone with half of a brain understands Zaru is wrong.


----------



## Gain (Nov 10, 2013)

MbS said:


> Mormons have their own state so I’m pretty sure the federal government could come up with something for African Americans.
> 
> How about Alaska?
> 
> And what I see from the likes of Zerothedestroyer is the tired old demand for _equal amounts _when it should be _equal opportunity_ they should go for.





African-Americans are going to take Mississippi soon probably.


----------



## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> Mbs is in the thread?



yup and he's spouting a load of bull.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Yeah, he's ^ right up there. Look at him and what he's saying.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> haha, this actually made me laugh. Never mind the fact that you're trying to use humor to slither yourself out of this.


Slither out of what? My deportation to the tolerance reeducation camp?




Marth6789 said:


> No, Im referring to when the initial colonists came to the kingdoms on the west coast, they noted that their societies elected officials at the head and had what you can consider an early form of a congress.The chief wasn't some divinely attributed person, he still had to answer to his people.
> 
> You went on a rant about all this stuff im not even talking about. Im getting at Zaru because he made the asinine notion that without slavery people in africa would be in huts without any sort of knowledge of what is going on around them.


Except I didn't say that anywhere
Nice try though



Flow said:


> Look, you don't have to explain yourself. Anyone with half of a brain understands Zaru is wrong.


So you're saying only people with impaired brain capabilities think I'm wrong
Thanks for your support bro


----------



## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Geezus said:


> yup and he's spouting a load of bull.





Flow said:


> Yeah, he's ^ right up there. Look at him and what he's saying.



You know I would like to believe it's trolling but deep down I know it's not.......


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

He's posting more pictures and trying to be funny in order to save face, just like IM or whoever the guy was earlier. I can't remember.


----------



## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

lol paranoid Northern white people who never interact with people outside their race say the darndest Things.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru is the type of guy who goes to college for a few years and acts like he knows ethnicities inside and out.

Fuck outta here.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> He's posting more pictures and trying to be funny in order to save face, just like IM or whoever the guy was earlier. I can't remember.



All the people who actually presented arguments left
There's not much to do here aside from wringing out some last entertainment from this thread


----------



## Black Superman (Nov 10, 2013)

MbS said:


> Mormons have their own state so I’m pretty sure the federal government could come up with something for African Americans.
> 
> How about Alaska?
> 
> And what I see from the likes of Zerothedestroyer is the tired old demand for _equal amounts _when it should be _equal opportunity_ they should go for.



How the hell do you have equal opportunity without equal resources? tell me that genius. Unless your solutions are rhetoric based, opportunity costs literally.


----------



## Marth6789 (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Oh no, the butthurt patrol is here
> 
> The last time you said I "showed my true colors" I asked you to explain yourself and you curiously disappeared off the face of the earth. Nice catchphrase. Maybe make it mean something next time.
> 
> ...


 
You need to read Guns germs and steel then if you cant understand what I mean when I said 35 million people were not born. The slave trade was estimated to have left 35 million people from being born during the time period, that has had lasting repercussions to this day.

And of course I have to group the whole fucking contintent because you group all black people together.... Because obviously black americans are the same as african immigrants in terms of educational attainment, and ideologies, right? It's not like people lump the progress of all of europe together right?  

It's not like african immigrants still have the highest educational attainement out of an group right?

But to you and alot of posters on here all think black people hate the "white man". You're extrapolating something from a population of 35 million people and imposing it on over a billion people and you don't see the problem with that?


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru means everyone stopped taking him seriously and started taking him like a joke like they should of done from the start.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 10, 2013)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> How the hell do you have equal opportunity without equal resources? tell me that genius. Unless your solutions are rhetoric based :
> , opportunity costs.



We-ll, compulsory education and clear rules and procedures related to jobs being sought and derived from function of talent, hard work and competitive drive.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru, why are you using the black death as an example. 



> Your complaint is utterly invalid,



This is hilarious.



> I've never felt more oppressed
> 
> Your trolling attempts are rather useless btw



I already understand I can't get a reaction out of you, you're too busy trying to be funny posting cartoon pictures as a rebuttal.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

haha

And why are you using WW1/WW2 as an example if Europeans still hold hatred towards one another depending on the country. you literally screwed that entire post.


----------



## Incognito (Nov 10, 2013)

Marth6789 said:


> You need to read *Guns germs and steel* then if you cant understand what I mean when I said 35 million people were not born. The slave trade was estimated to have left 35 million people from being born during the time period, that has had lasting repercussions to this day.
> 
> And of course I have to group the whole fucking contintent because you group all black people together.... Because obviously black americans are the same as african immigrants in terms of educational attainment, and ideologies, right? It's not like people lump the progress of all of europe together right?
> 
> ...



Ah that, written by an author who comes from the same group as Gould, Lewontin, Rose and Kamin; you know the the champions of political correctness in the evolutionary sciences as anyone who has read into the sociobiology controversy would know.

The problem is that Diamonds argument completely and utterly disregards (and indeed it must) the most accessible and relevant pool of data/evidence in the whole debate:  the modern world, namely why it is that in the modern world and in developed states, group differences persist not only in spite of equal opportunity but even controlling for such things as poverty (e.g. middle class Blacks still under-perform in cognitive tests as compared to middle class Whites)

Heres the antidote to Guns, Germs and Steel: Michael Hart's "Understanding Human History".


----------



## Marth6789 (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Lmao. The black death wiped out half of europe. We got over it.
> WW1 and WW2 decimated europe. We got over it.
> The holocaust decimated the Jews. As far as success goes, they got over it.
> Why are you stuck in the past?
> ...



The way black Americans feel as opposed to the rest around the world, which is funny since you're Austrian right???

My complaint isn't invalid because It still shows you're a racist prick. You still dont see how the shit you say is racist as hell. 

My boy I have nothing to get over im not complaining about shit in the past... first born generation american here, im getting my degree in school and no one can stop that no matter who they are. My parents are from Nigeria, so all the shit you say I call bullshit on because the black people I grew up around were all successful and smart and never once said anything about slavery or white people keeping them down.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> Zaru, why are you using the black death as an example.


- Event that killed more than his "prevented births" figure and prevented a notably higher number of births on top of that
- Nobody currently alive can be blamed for it either


Flow said:


> This is hilarious.


I'm glad you're entertained.



Flow said:


> I already understand I can't get a reaction out of you, you're too busy trying to be funny posting cartoon pictures as a rebuttal.


Since when do insults and hollow deflection posts require a rebuttal?


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> - Event that killed more than his "prevented births" figure and prevented a notably higher number of births on top of that
> - Nobody currently alive can be blamed for it either



I'm saying on the basis of, that happened so many centuries ago, I don't even know how you could use that as an example. It's like you tried to use it for some cheap stepping stone to get whatever point across. 



> I'm glad you're entertained.



uh thanks I guess haha


> Since when do insults and hollow deflection posts require a rebuttal?



But all of your post don't have to be taken seriously is what I'm saying.


----------



## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru enlighten me, tell me what exactly any of your ranting has to do with race relations in America. I don't feel like backtracking a bunch pages to see what you wrote, i just noticed your posts about jews etc, but how does it relate.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

And yes, Zaru is a fucking racist. A term I rarely use to describe someone and I don't like to use but he's clearly a racist. 



Iron Man said:


> Oh my god. When black people act as if they are still oppressed, and blame all their miscomings on their race...





Iron Man said:


> Those quotes are supposed to mean?
> 
> It is pathetic when black people have a chip on their shoulder, and are so unfortunate because everyone has it out for them solely for being black.



I would have thought initially that it is self-explanatory why these quotes are idiotic, but I guess I actually have to explain why these quotes are idiotic.

First of all, the Black Codes. Do you know what they are? Since you haven't displayed much intelligence I'm going to assume you don't. They were laws that preceded the Jim Crow laws which basically served the same purpose after the Civil War era. In spite of that however, black communities still saw growth becoming suburban areas almost as successful as white neighborhoods of the time, and you saw an social mobilization of former slaves and their successors to the extent that some were even moving into white neighborhoods. 

As I told obd lurker before, it was fear over this that Jim Crow was ushered in, and the explicit intention of Jim Crow was to cripple this and any future ability of African-Americans to advance becuase these laws specifically targeted African-Americans. By this time, Irish and Jews were considered more or less white, and so such laws did not apply to them so I do find it quite telling of a person's ignorance on American history when they try to compare them to what the black population has experienced in this country. Our society was based on the idea that racial hierarchy was determined by skin tone, which is why the two lowest, and surprise-surprise, the two most impoverished groups even to this day are Native Americans and African-Americans.

Race plays the hugest factor on where everyone is where they are in America today, it is only relatively recently have we actually begun to move away from that and break from the consequences of the mentalities and actions of those that came before us. As again, it wasn't even a lifetime ago that the last of such laws were abolished. 



Zaru said:


> You mean like the entirety of women in the West?



The ignorance I was talking about before...



Blue said:


> Your avatar looks like a huge penis
> 
> Appropriate, really
> 
> But you're the sort of person I'd expect to run into people with close to triple-digit-higher IQs than yourself and call ignorant



Blue, you started out half-right and then just showed everyone once again that you have zero life experience. Ultimately today money is what drives us, but you keep forgetting that most people don't have that kind of money and many people feel a need to feel superior to others (even if they may not be in any meaningful way). One such methods people still use to this day is race, and it may not be the knuckle-dragging string-em-up by the tree kind it was in the old days but it's still quite present. For the most part, our generation is so much more ahead then the Gen X'ers and the Baby Boomers on this matter in particular, but it's very clear that there are people that listen to the nostalgic rantings of their predecessors and base their rage and contempt off of that.


----------



## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

unrelated but why are all the banner ads about buying exotic wives...?


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Marth6789 said:


> The way black Americans feel as opposed to the rest around the world, which is funny since you're Austrian right???
> 
> My complaint isn't invalid because It still shows you're a racist prick. You still dont see how the shit you say is racist as hell.
> 
> My boy I have nothing to get over im not complaining about shit in the past... first born generation american here, im getting my degree in school and no one can stop that no matter who they are. My parents are from Nigeria, so all the shit you say I call bullshit on because the black people I grew up around were all successful and smart and never once said anything about slavery or white people keeping them down.



You were talking about lasting repercussions of people not being born. How are slave-descended black americans affected by people who were never born 150+ years ago in Africa? What is this about "feelings"? You might as well complain about the existence of abortions.

>Praises some blacks for their achievements but not all of them, which is sensible for any existing demographic on earth
>That makes me a racist
Do you even listen to yourself
Like how does your brain even work to come to this retarded conclusion
It's like I said I like Apples and Bananas and you deduce that I hate all fruits because I didn't say I like all of them

>I say that I said multiple times that nigerian americans are very successfull
>You say you're nigerian american
Well what the fuck is the problem here? I basically just praised you and you're acting like I said you or blacks in general can't be "smart and successful"

Your density is approaching black hole gravity


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

hahahahahaha


YES!

YES!



> Your density is approaching black hole gravity



Why are you ignoring Seto Kaiba's post?


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> Why are you ignoring Seto Kaiba's post?



Aside from being created while I wrote mine and thus it didn't exist yet, you mean? Or aside from him spouting the usual buzzwords because his comprehension is lacking?


----------



## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Geezus said:


> unrelated but why are all the banner ads about buying exotic wives...?



Banners? I see none.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Aside from being created while I wrote mine and thus it didn't exist yet, you mean? Or aside from him spouting the usual buzzwords because his comprehension is lacking?



It's always hilarious to see you completely avoid my responses because you can't provide anything substantial to them. You do this everytime along with the predictable image macro to hide your stupidity.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

You have enough time to respond to me, respond to him.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It's always hilarious to see you completely avoid my responses because you can't provide anything substantial to them. You do this everytime along with the predictable image macro to hide your stupidity.



Your post was, in relation to me, "das racis" and "das ignorant"
The typical buzzwords you spout, and this time you're not even giving one ounce of reasoning to boot

What am I even supposed to write here? You're just throwing insults at random
Do you think you deserve any effort for that?


----------



## reiatsuflow (Nov 10, 2013)

White people can't relate to slavery. It's a harder sell. We do our reactionary Richard Nixon thing. "I am not a crook!"

But people get tired of hearing about acknowledgements. Acknowledging a problem might be the first step to solving a problem, but it's also the first step in a long and dawdling process of chasing tails, checking facts, and quibbling over semantics before people generally agree on what's being acknowledged (and even that generality will be filled with millions of interpretive exceptions). But when you have someone quibbling about the holocaust you think you're talking to someone who has a problem with jews, even though there are small details worth hashing out. We don't have that reaction when you have someone quibbling about the details of the American slave trade. That's a little odd.

The sustaining problems of poverty are as complicated as the sustaining problems of humanity. Everybody in the thread knows that. Sometimes I can't tell if another person acts the way they do because of their environment, their chemicals, or more fleeting things like their mood. I can't figure it out. Everybody has crossed paths with an absolute loser of a human being at least once in their lives, but what do you make of that? Are they coming from a bad home life? Are they perpetuating the bad habits of their immediate surroundings? Are they chemically imbalanced in some way? Are they just entitled and lazy? I have never been able to put my finger on it , so what about cities and neighborhoods that continue to be economic losers? I can't put my finger on it even though economic measures have more definitive income and crime stats (even those stats have question marks).

The biggest question about institutionalized racism comes down to the treatment of poor whites. It was mentioned earlier. Poor whites in trailers and economically depressed areas get no better treatment than poor blacks in economically depressed areas. You roll on down a poor white area and then roll down a poor black area. Any differences between their relationship with law enforcement, academia, family habits and economic status would have to be found with a fine toothed comb. You could find differences, of course. But they wouldn't be actionable on a large scale. 

If institutionalized racism can't be applied to the entire country in that respect, it's broken down into specific situations surrounding certain states, laws, and even neighborhoods. And if it's broken down into that kind of specificity, a film set in 1841 about a New York doctor becoming a slave isn't going to be forcing people to face anything beyond the circumstances and context of the movie.  It's supposed to be a good movie, but so was Schlinder's List, and Schlinder's List shouldn't be the piece to make people confront the history of nazi Germany.


----------



## Black Superman (Nov 10, 2013)

MbS said:


> We-ll, compulsory education and clear rules and procedures related to jobs being sought and derived from function of *talent, hard work and competitive drive*.



Rhetoric just as I thought. Your solution amounts to little more than adhering to the same ineffectual rules that are currently on the books. If you're so confident in your own hypothesis, then why don't YOU put your kids in the same school district as the low-income inner city students .  The creme will rise to the crop. Resources don't matter right? It's all about the individual. Exceptions swallow the rule.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

He's proven you are in fact WRONG.

If you can't find a rebuttal, you HAVE LOST.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> He's proven you are in fact WRONG.
> 
> If you can't find a rebuttal, you HAVE LOST.


You're racist.

Ha! Now you're wrong! Take that, Flow!


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Your post was, in relation to me, "das racis" and "das ignorant"
> The typical buzzwords you spout, and this time you're not even giving one ounce of reasoning to boot



You called yourself a racial realist, the last time we actually discussed anything about blacks in America you claimed that their 'perpetual victim complex' was to blame for their situation. Kyokkai in another thread wants to blame blacks for his predicament and everything shows he's bullshitting but that didn't stop you from rushing to his side. There's a good reason I don't like discussing anything Jewish with you seeing how you've gotten in the past. You always get indignant when people think you're a racist, and I tell you I'm not the only one that thinks of you that way and it is your rhetoric that ultimately paints you in that fashion.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

You just stated you had no rebuttal, and now you are making heinous jokes again to save face


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 10, 2013)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> Rhetoric just as I thought. Your solution amounts to little more than adhering to the same ineffectual rules that are currently on the books. If you're so confident in your own hypothesis, then why don't YOU put your kids in the same school district as the low-income inner city students .  The creme will rise to the crop.



What you’re advocating will only reap short term benefits before you yet again return with your begging bowl and over. You obviously aren’t interest in long term stability and assurance.

Why is it Asian Americans are so much more successful than African Americans despite not having overwhelming advantages? Why is helping African Americans to help themselves such a dirty thought? Get over yourselves. If you want it immediately then now is the time to start and not expecting it to come your way.


----------



## Stunna (Nov 10, 2013)

martryn said:


> I like how being black gets you known as that black guy, and that's racist, but by ignoring the fact that you're black makes you ashamed.  This is the predicament of white America.  There is no right answer.


real     talk


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru, in your next post if you are unable to post a legit rebuttal you have SELF ADMITTED that you have nothing of value to add to this thread.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You called yourself a racial realist, the last time we actually discussed anything about blacks in America you claimed that their 'perpetual victim complex' was to blame for their situation. Kyokkai in another thread wants to blame blacks for his predicament and everything shows he's bullshitting but that didn't stop you from rushing to his side. There's a good reason I don't like discussing anything Jewish with you seeing how you've gotten in the past. You always get indignant when people think you're a racist, and I tell you I'm not the only one that thinks of you that way and it is your rhetoric that ultimately paints you in that fashion.



And here you go trying to lie again like the little bitch you are
We both know that I used that term disconnected from the racists who tried to claim that term for themselves - poor choice maybe, but that's about it

We both know how many times I reminded you of the difference between relatives and absolutes (being influenced by =/= the sole reason), and you're curiously silent when others say the same things
Putting aside the idiotic idea that everything people said in the past is to be taken word for word as their current stance for no reason

We both know that you have no evidence of him lying about what happened, the only thing that was odd was his blame for Obama and his misjudgement of the house pricing which is a sign of frustration over WHAT happened in the first place
I get indignant because it's your sad little attempt at winning debates through ad hominem
But you pretty much admitted to not seeking peaceful debate on this forum so it's obvious what you're trying to pull



Flow said:


> Zaru, in your next post if you are unable to post a legit rebuttal you have SELF ADMITTED that you have nothing of value to add to this thread.


I'm replying only to waste more of your time


----------



## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

MbS said:


> What you?re advocating will only reap short term benefits before you yet again return with your begging bowl and over. You obviously aren?t interest in long term stability and assurance.
> 
> Why is it Asian Americans are so much more successful than African Americans despite not having overwhelming advantages? Why is helping African Americans to help themselves such a dirty thought? Get over yourselves. If you want it immediately then now is the time to start and not expecting it to come your way.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

> And here you go trying to lie again like the little bitch you are



hahaha oh my god the maturity. 

Zaru, if more then one person thinks you're a racist, you HAVE to take a look at yourself. All jokes aside. Your generalizations of entire groups of people is completely sickening.


----------



## Aging Boner (Nov 10, 2013)

racism makes for the best threads don't you think?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> And here you go trying to lie again like the little bitch you are
> We both know that I used that term disconnected from the racists who tried to claim that term for themselves - poor choice maybe, but that's about it



I told you constantly of its meaning and you tried to tell me off like you knew better, as you often do pertaining to issues that I clearly have a more intimate knowledge of than yourself. 



> We both know how many times I reminded you of the difference between relatives and absolutes (being influenced by =/= the sole reason), and you're curiously silent when others say the same things



You attributed their situation to single, simplistic factor which I've corrected you on, again you trying to tell me off for. As you can see I just corrected another person that made a similar argument to yourself just this last page. 



> Putting aside the idiotic idea that everything people said in the past is to be taken word for word as their current stance for no reason



It wasn't that long ago, it was earlier this year. 



> We both know that you have no evidence of him lying about what happened, the only thing that was odd was his blame for Obama and his misjudgement of the house pricing which is a sign of frustration over WHAT happened in the first place



Nothing in his story added up. He was angry, he wanted to blame something but he didn't know what was really at fault, and it was clear that based on the sources he relied on he simply was guided by preconceived notions of what he wanted to blame rather than what or whom may be really at fault. 



> I get indignant because it's your sad little attempt at winning debates through ad hominem



The guy who consistently posts macros to hide his own ignorance isn't one to chide me for this. 



> But you pretty much admitted to not seeking peaceful debate on this forum so it's obvious what you're trying to pull



I can debate in any which way, I just don't have any respect for you as a person.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> -snip-



Gino is to the black community on NF what Supersaiyaman12 is for the Israeli apologists.

We need more baconbits badly.


----------



## Black Superman (Nov 10, 2013)

MbS said:


> What you’re advocating will only reap short term benefits before you yet again return with your begging bowl and over. You obviously aren’t interest in long term stability and assurance.
> 
> Why is it Asian Americans are so much more successful than African Americans despite not having overwhelming advantages? Why is helping AA to help themselves is such a dirty thought? Get over yourselves. If you want it immediately then now is the time to start and not expecting it to come your way.



Who the hell is keeping Asian Americans back from achieving academically? They're not the ones being bused into substandard schools and disproportionately slow tracked in special ed and remedial courses.  

Asian Americans are the second most wealthy group in the country, only behind whites. What are you talking about? They have the resources to invest in their children's education, and many do just that. 

The same goes for African immigrants, many of them are working professionals who come to the united states because they are the creme of their crop. I mean, that's how legal immigration is intended to work in this country.

I wouldn't exactly call the American education system a meritocracy.


----------



## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

MbS said:


> Gino is to the black community on NF what Supersaiyaman12 is for the Israeli apologists.
> 
> We need more baconbits badly.



Says the person no self respecting transgender person would want to hang around fuck outta here you're even worse than Zaru.


----------



## Incognito (Nov 10, 2013)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> Rhetoric just as I thought. Your solution amounts to little more than adhering to the same ineffectual rules that are currently on the books. If you're so confident in your own hypothesis, then why don't YOU put your kids in the same school district as the low-income inner city students .  The creme will rise to the crop. Resources don't matter right? It's all about the individual. Exceptions swallow the rule.



What MbS claimed is not a hypothesis but a very well documented and supported fact: IQ (talent) and a capacity to delay gratification (this is a scientific measure of the vaguely defined notion of "hard work") are extremely good predictors of educational and economic ability and in both measures, hereditary/genetics is as important as environment. Resources matter but there is such a thing as potential to make use of resources; to demonstrate my point here is an extreme: you can invest all the resources you want, you aren't going to be turning an average kid into say an intellectual mutant like a von Neumann. The fact is that all groups have a more or less equal opportunity for success in developed nations, the problem is you assume equal opportunity will necessarily produce equal outcome.

Anyways, what is your solution then, increased entitlements, handouts and discrimination against more competent groups?


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Hey come on now, don't use transgender as an insult..



> Anyways, what is your solution then, increased entitlements, handouts and discrimination against more competent groups?




How can anyone take you seriously when you're pinning at the guy like this.


----------



## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

MbS said:


> What you’re advocating will only reap short term benefits before you yet again return with your begging bowl and over. You obviously aren’t interest in long term stability and assurance.
> 
> Why is it Asian Americans are so much more successful than African Americans despite not having overwhelming advantages? Why is helping African Americans to help themselves such a dirty thought? Get over yourselves. If you want it immediately then now is the time to start and not expecting it to come your way.



hahahahaha this is a comparison you can't make. There are plenty of asian Americans who do fine because they are accepted into society. I noticed when ever there is a place inahabited by White primarily when a Black person moves in they all start moving away. 

Hell even being Black drives Down property prices, why's that? My Family is White and my parents once saved up the Money they could live in a nice neighborhood, and it was funny because they had all kinds of shit strewn about the yard broken tractor, a pitbull tied to the garage etc. 

These people hated us, and were close to forming a homeowners comittee when we lived there. Then my parents sold the place to some Blacks and the Whole neighborhood went up in arms trying to block the sale and formed a homeowners assoc. even the mexican ones were pissed. 

Its funny to note that these people were the same people who were said to be tolerant and more liberal, our neighbors who lived directly beside us on both sides were from traditional Southern types, but they didn't care about the Blacks moving in. I guess you could look at like this that racism is still very strong today and most of the time its all the progressive people who make a deal about it.


----------



## Aging Boner (Nov 10, 2013)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> Who the hell is keeping Asian Americans back from achieving academically? They're not the ones being bused into substandard schools and disproportionately slow tracked in special ed and remedial courses.
> 
> Asian Americans are the second most wealthy group in the country, only behind whites. What are you talking about? They have the resources to invest in their children's education, and many do just that.
> 
> ...



what would you recommend as a solution to this educational disparity?

aside from better parenting and stronger, safer communities ofc.


----------



## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> Hey come on now, don't use transgender as an insult..



That's not an insult.


----------



## Rawri (Nov 10, 2013)

There is no bitter truth to face.



> Americans have a great deal of difficulty because of their intimate proximity with slavery



Pretty sure every single country in the world has used slaves at one point. Modern citizens of the USA have got nothing to do with slavery.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Safer communities is a must though, which a lot of areas blacks grow up in don't have. 

Stronger education. Like, could you imagine getting an even more terrible education than the one the typical middle class American kid gets.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> That's not an insult.



oh, thought you were using it to be demeaning..


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> Safer communities is a must though, which a lot of areas blacks grow up in don't have.
> 
> Stronger education. Like, could you imagine getting an even more terrible education than the one the typical middle class American kid gets.



That's so...generic...we know what is needed it's how to get there that's the complicated answer.


----------



## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> oh, thought you were using it to be demeaning..



No I meant any transgendered person with self respect would  not want to be around the trash that is Mbs.

assuming he's trash irl.


----------



## Aging Boner (Nov 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> assuming he's trash irl.


the internet teaches us one of two things about people: a) it shows us who we really are without the societal filter or b) it shows us who we wish we were if we had the courage of our convictions


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> hahaha oh my god the maturity.
> 
> Zaru, if more then one person thinks you're a racist, you HAVE to take a look at yourself. All jokes aside. Your generalizations of entire groups of people is completely sickening.



Hahaha please

This is pretty much the same thing as anything america-related

Criticize america? Instantly you got a bunch of people calling you "those fucking euros" and acting like you just insulted their mother. 

Just because multiple people can't handle reality doesn't make reality wrong, sorry



Seto Kaiba said:


> I told you constantly of its meaning and you tried to tell me off like you knew better, as you often do pertaining to issues that I clearly have a more intimate knowledge of than yourself.


You have more intimate knowledge of what I think than I do? That's hilarious Seto, keep going



Seto Kaiba said:


> You attributed their situation to single, simplistic factor which I've corrected you on, again you trying to tell me off for. As you can see I just corrected another person that made a similar argument to yourself just this last page.


I don't recall insisting on that being the only factor so you're most likely bullshitting hard here
If for some reason I did, then that was stupid and it has nothing to do with my current thoughts
I'm not even gonna comment on the creepiness of remembering my old posts in such detail



Seto Kaiba said:


> Nothing in his story added up. He was angry, he wanted to blame something but he didn't know what was really at fault, and it was clear that based on the sources he relied on he simply was guided by preconceived notions of what he wanted to blame rather than what or whom may be really at fault.


The premise of his story can't be proven wrong though. Scum moved into his neighborhood and killed his pets, and law enforcement is ignoring it. Sorry for going to the side of an actual victim rather than the side of some dude who "has no respect for me as a person" 



Seto Kaiba said:


> The guy who consistently posts macros to hide his own ignorance isn't one to chide me for this.


This is an anime forum for a children's cartoon, Seto

My options for reacting to your insults are getting buttmad or having fun
I choose the latter


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

You can't say 'we' in these situations, since a lot of people don't seem to understand. 


alright, Gino.


----------



## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> That's so...generic...we know what is needed it's how to get there that's the complicated answer.



Well honestly I think if someone went and refurbished a Black community like put Money into it and allowed grants for more local businesses and made a committee for a stronger community and built more civic centers then Things might take a change.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 10, 2013)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> Who the hell is keeping Asian Americans back from achieving academically? They're not the ones being bused into substandard schools and disproportionately slow tracked in special ed and remedial courses.
> 
> Asian Americans are the second most wealthy group in the country, only behind whites. What are you talking about? They have the resources to invest in their children's education, and many do just that.
> 
> ...



Notice how I said education earlier? Did you miss that? _That_ is the most fundamental resource. You obviously didn?t. Beside ethic and talent and hard work are just as important as resources if not more. It?s stupid to otherwise assume not, just as it is foolish to assume privilege produces the very best.


----------



## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

> Hahaha please



YES.

Exactly my point. Stop being racist, you're just continuing a cycle of hatred.


----------



## Incognito (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> How can anyone take you seriously when you're pinning at the guy like this.



I mean no offense to anyone personally but I just can't bring myself to use euphemisms for it.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> You have more intimate knowledge of what I think than I do? That's hilarious Seto, keep going



Of the issues discussed. Like this one in particular. 



> I don't recall insisting on that being the only factor so you're most likely bullshitting hard here
> If for some reason I did, then that was stupid and it has nothing to do with my current thoughts
> I'm not even gonna comment on the creepiness of remembering my old posts in such detail



It was stupid, and I'm glad you admit to that. 

You're almost sounding like the fangirls in the Avenue at this point. Anyone with basic short-term memory can recall things from such a recent period of time. Especially when the debate was so heated as it was then. 



> The premise of his story can't be proven wrong though. Scum moved into his neighborhood and killed his pets, and law enforcement is ignoring it. Sorry for going to the side of an actual victim rather than the side of some dude who "has no respect for me as a person"



Do you know how idiotic that sounds though? He didn't even know what was going on, so how can I trust him on anything else? His reliability was already into question. Yet like I said, the rhetoric he was pulling it was no shock that you rushed to his side. 



> This is an anime forum for a children's cartoon, Seto
> 
> My options for reacting to your insults are getting buttmad or having fun
> I choose the latter



In which case, you cannot complain about 'ad hominem' or anything of the sort. If you were 'having fun' I don't think you'd constantly bitch about how I confront you, but you do.


----------



## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> the internet teaches us one of two things about people: a) it shows us who we really are without the societal filter or b) it shows us who we wish we were if we had the courage of our convictions


Indeed.


Geezus said:


> Well honestly I think if someone went and refurbished a Black community like put Money into it and allowed grants for more local businesses and made a committee for a stronger community and built more civic centers then Things might take a change.


People have been trying to do this for years the question is how to generate enough income to make this a reality.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Flow said:


> YES.
> 
> Exactly my point. Stop being racist, you're just continuing a cycle of hatred.



Just out of curiosity, since that has been avoided for the last few pages

Show me an example of displayed racism that can be proven as unjustified bigotry

Just one


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## EJ (Nov 10, 2013)

Take a look at your recent post! More so, the one I just posted.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Your post was, in relation to me, "das racis" and "das ignorant"
> The typical buzzwords you spout, and this time you're not even giving one ounce of reasoning to boot
> 
> What am I even supposed to write here? You're just throwing insults at random
> Do you think you deserve any effort for that?



The _typical buzzwords_ are appropriate when describing your character. You have displayed ignorance when it comes to matters of race, failing to understand why the present generation would be affected by the oppression of ancestors as late as their parents, you displayed that you are a racist in denial with your whole ''it's racial realism people''. 

Seto raised valid points, outside of his accurate summary of your character, so I don't agree with the belief that it would be beneath you to respond to him.


----------



## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

2/10 apply yourself, Flow



Seto Kaiba said:


> Of the issues discussed. Like this one in particular.


What I called myself some months ago in a thread where I didn't yet know how anal you can be about term definitions as a debater is not a "discussed issue". If I call myself something that is not an established dictionary term, then it means exactly what I think it means, in the context where I used it, with the explanation I gave. 



Seto Kaiba said:


> It was stupid, and I'm glad you admit to that.
> 
> You're almost sounding like the fangirls in the Avenue at this point. Anyone with basic short-term memory can recall things from such a recent period of time. Especially when the debate was so heated as it was then.


It's a discussion on an anime forum, Seto
I don't even remember what I posted yesterday because none of it matters
Good for you if your memory has enough storage for pointless information though



Seto Kaiba said:


> Do you know how idiotic that sounds though? He didn't even know what was going on, so how can I trust him on anything else? His reliability was already into question. Yet like I said, the rhetoric he was pulling it was no shock that you rushed to his side.


What was the point of making that story up, unless he was a troll?
You'd make a great victim counselor btw. "YOU'RE LYING. YOU WEREN'T RAPED. OBAMA IMPROVED THE HOUSING SITUATION."



Seto Kaiba said:


> In which case, you cannot complain about 'ad hominem' or anything of the sort.


NF is a place I like. You're shitting it up by being polemic for the mere sake of being polemic. The relation is pretty clear



Gunners said:


> The _typical buzzwords_ are appropriate when describing your character. You have displayed ignorance when it comes to matters of race, failing to understand why the present generation would be affected by the oppression of ancestors as late as their parents, you displayed that you are a racist in denial with your whole ''it's racial realism people''.
> 
> Seto raised valid points, outside of his accurate summary of your character, so I don't agree with the belief that it would be beneath you to respond to him.



Still waiting for that clear example guys

It's been claimed for half the thread now and there is still none


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## Gain (Nov 10, 2013)

DOGPILE THE ARYAN!!!!


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> 2/10 apply yourself, Flow
> 
> 
> What I called myself some months ago in a thread where I didn't yet know how anal you can be about term definitions as a debater is not a "discussed issue". If I call myself something that is not an established dictionary term, then it means exactly what I think it means, in the context where I used it, with the explanation I gave.



You insisted on using the term even after I told you what it meant. 



> It's a discussion on an anime forum, Seto
> I don't even remember what I posted yesterday because none of it matters
> Good for you if your memory has enough storage for pointless information though



So? I assume you have a brain, and this brain stores any kind of information right? Just because you have the memory capacity of a goldfish doesn't mean everyone does. 

Like I said this the same approach fangirls in the avenue use when they start losing a debate.



> What was the point of making that story up, unless he was a troll?
> You'd make a great victim counselor btw. "YOU'RE LYING. YOU WEREN'T RAPED. OBAMA IMPROVED THE HOUSING SITUATION."



Selina Kyle, remember that? People make up stories all the time, but that wasn't my issue. My issue is that regardless of whether he did or not he clearly had no idea of the factors influencing his situation nor of the specific policies or individuals he chose to blame. 



> NF is a place I like. You're shitting it up by being polemic for the mere sake of being polemic. The relation is pretty clear



Based on your previous rationale, you are in no position to complain about anything.


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## reiatsuflow (Nov 10, 2013)

There are two ways to overcome a problem.

You can point at the problem and shout out, _Hey everybody, look at this problem. Come over here and look at this problem. You guys should know about this. Let's find a way to stomp out this problem for good altogether!_ Or you can go around the problem and make a mental note on ways to avoid that problem in the future. You don't raise a stink about it. You don't make other people aware of it, and you don't find support from communities or rights groups that might help to prevent that problem from impeding people in the future. You get past the problem faster, but you slow down the progress of the masses behind you who will encounter that problem in the future and might not have your fortitude.

A black kid in the ghetto can overcome the ghetto. He knows that, we know that. The problem isn't that an individual can't overcome their situation. The problem is that people as a whole, who follow predictable probability and statistical habit, might not be able to move forward until more people point at the problem and gather more attention and eventually stomp it out. But what is the problem? I don't like living in shabby run down economically poor areas because of the people there, not because of the police or the government. It's because of the people there. More specifically, it's because of the small minority of people who end up in those places and are certifiably the sludge of humanity. They wash down there and they bring everybody down around them. I've lived in shitty areas before. Most people are still people. They're fine. There are people who are going to college in the ghetto. There aren't hood dealers beating up the next door kid because he reads his school books.

Ghettos are places where enough bad people wind up so they can do whatever the fuck their bad head wants to do, and it's not really feasible for the surrounding law enforcement to stop them altogether because there's just enough of a concentration that the area can be fenced off. It's where the tentative point between law and lawlessness lives, and it crops up in every country throughout the world, and it does so because these types of people fall through enough cracks in society and end up gathering in the same spot and end up being quarantined, in a geographical sense. 

There's racism, but racism isn't responsible for these living situations. Racism and prejudice has been responsible for segregation and its own kind of quarantining, but other factors come in to stir up the kind of ghettos that bring down a whole mess of people. The 'ghettos' of olde following slavery and black segregation are not at all like the ghettos of today. It comes down to people being shitty to people and creating shitty people that don't know how to function in the society around them. There are a lot shittier things being done to people than racism, and those are the behaviors responsible for creating the cesspools that drag down entire neighborhoods into perpetual cycles of loserdom.


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## Incognito (Nov 10, 2013)

The problem with you people is that you define racism as a matter of empirical reality instead of morally/ethically. If racism is the belief in the inequality (defined in statistical terms) of ethnic groups then Im afraid you guys are fighting a losing battle, the fact is that group differences exist and persist and politically correct science is becoming increasingly untenable in light of things like twin and adoption studies. 

If Zaru was actually spiteful of even groups of non-Whites much less all individual non-Whites then you would have a case but Ive seen no such indication. Reality cannot be immoral, you people actually do your cause a disservice by attempting to basically argue as much.


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## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> Indeed.
> 
> People have been trying to do this for years the question is how to generate enough income to make this a reality.



Honestly churches etc, but then the problem comes from peoples own greed, for example one church in my area which is a Black baptist church managed to save enough money from it's donations to build a 500ft cross. When everytime I drive by it in that part of Houston I can immediately think of many other ways how that Money could have been better spent, then you have the church leaders themselves living like celebrities.

 And then this is the problem, in America we put out the idea that we should rely on the charity of others, when others will only give to a charity that interests them rather than something that could benefit someone else, in the end these people end up getting shafted by this principle and its where I feel the government should step in.

 I mean lets face it Blacks have only been getting higher standings within the society in the last 40 some odd years, and they're still being met with plenty of opposition, and if you had to deal with this shit on a daily basis I'm sure it would hinder you from doing Things yourself, coupled with the fact that many colleges and universities these days are really only obtainable by the wealthy,


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## Bishop (Nov 10, 2013)

Wow, this thread has really went south... 

The movie wasn't that good though, and the lead character couldn't play the violin as well as he boasted


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## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

Bishop said:


> Wow, this thread has really went south...
> 
> The movie wasn't that good though, and the lead character couldn't play the violin as well as he boasted



I guess the devil never really went Down to Georgia then...


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## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

I feel sorry for reiatsuflow, his posts seem to be getting lost



Seto Kaiba said:


> You insisted on using the term even after I told you what it meant.


I told you what it means in the context of where I used it. Which is the only meaning that matters.
You insisted on ignoring that. 
Don't blame me for your ignorance.



Seto Kaiba said:


> So? I assume you have a brain, and this brain stores any kind of information right? Just because you have the memory capacity of a goldfish doesn't mean everyone does.


Long term memory is not meant to store useless information, Seto
So in that regard it's working pretty damn well



Seto Kaiba said:


> Like I said this the same approach fangirls in the avenue use when they start losing a debate.


Says the owner of an anti pairing fanclub 



Seto Kaiba said:


> Selina Kyle, remember that? People make up stories all the time, but that wasn't my issue. My issue is that regardless of whether he did or not he clearly had no idea of the factors influencing his situation nor of the specific policies or individuals he chose to blame.


It's not my fault you can't tell a troll from a genuine person.


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## navy (Nov 10, 2013)

This thread went the way we all knew it would. Way to lazy to search through the comments. If anyone relied to me, lol, post it again.


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## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

Gainsville, but no further.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> I told you what it means in the context of where I used it. Which is the only meaning that matters.
> You insisted on ignoring that.
> Don't blame me for your ignorance.



Again, even after me telling you what it meant you still insisted on using it. 



> Long term memory is not meant to store useless information, Seto
> So in that regard it's working pretty damn well



short-term memory. I just told you this. Your memory is quite atrocious.



> Says the owner of an anti pairing fanclub



Showing more of that ignorance. 



> It's not my fault you can't tell a troll from a genuine person.



I keep overestimating you it appears, because the point I made was quite clear.


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## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Geezus said:


> Honestly churches etc, but then the problem comes from peoples own greed, for example one church in my area which is a Black baptist church managed to save enough monet from it's donations to build a 500ft cross. When everytime I drive by it in that part of Houston I can immediately think of many other ways how that Money could have been better spent, then you have the church leaders themselves living like celebrities.
> 
> And then this is the problem, in America we put out the idea that we should rely on the charity of others, when others will only give to a charity that interests them rather than something that could benefit someone else, in the end these people end up getting shafted by this principle and its where I feel the government should step in.
> 
> I mean lets face it Blacks have only been getting higher standings within the society in the last 40 some odd years, and they're still being met with plenty of opposition, and if you had to deal with this shit on a daily basis I'm sure it would hinder you from doing Things yourself, coupled with the fact that many colleges and universities these days are really only obtainable by the wealthy,



I agree 100%


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## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

You... you just used the word ignorance because I am amused by your efforts on Naruto pairings

Does that word even have any MEANING coming from you or is that the extent of your Tourette's syndrome?


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> You... you just used the word ignorance because I am amused by your efforts on Naruto pairings
> 
> Does that word even have any MEANING coming from you or is that the extent of your Tourette's syndrome?



What does effort have to do with the point I made? This is just again, more indication that you don't read what you respond to. You victimize yourself, and try to play the fact that simple memory is such an odd thing; the same thing fangirls in the Naruto section do when people start grilling them. That has nothing to do with effort on my part, or what I debate, but rather how similar your tactics are to theirs. I keep overestimating you, but I think even you can get what I'm stating now.


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## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Hey guys, still waiting on those clear provable examples of racism in this thread! I've been waiting for hours now, and from several people.
Funny how that turned out, huh.



Seto Kaiba said:


> What does effort have to do with the point I made? This is just again, more indication that you don't read what you respond to. You victimize yourself, and try to play the fact that simple memory is such an odd thing; the same thing fangirls in the Naruto section do. That has nothing to do with effort on my part, but rather how similar your tactics are to theirs.



There WAS no point you made
A pairing fanclub owner comparing others to nardo fangirls is throwing stones in the glass house
That's amusing
Obviously not to you

What the fuck does that have to do with ignorance


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## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> I agree 100%



Yeah unfprtunately the Whole pull yourself by your bootstaps mentality our society has does not, so it sits and bitches about the problem and pussyfoots itself around the issue rather than doing something to fix it, and yet we just expect Things to magically work themselves out. 

That and many people like Zaru lack an understanding of problems like poverty and Black poverty, I only have some insight into because I grew up around it and seeing as my Family had been poor before, I noticed how others treated us like shit just because of that, now.

 Then I noticed it intensifies greatly when you notice that people of different color but in the same standing still get it worse. 

The American mentality bases the assumption that poor people are stupid and lazy and create their own standings but really thats not the case.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> HThere WAS no point you made
> A pairing fanclub owner comparing others to nardo fangirls is throwing stones in the glass house
> That's amusing
> Obviously not to you
> ...



The fact that you had to bring up my ownership, which only makes it abundantly clear you have *no idea* how I run the place.

Second that you continue to use the aforementioned tactics only solidifying my point that much more. This seems to be a constant thing with you though. 

I can see why you opt to use image macros rather than text, you look less of of a fool with the former.


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## Parallax (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru's arguments really did devolve to image macros and insults holy fuck


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## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> _*Hey guys, still waiting on those clear provable examples of racism in this thread! I've been waiting for hours now, and from several people.
> Funny how that turned out, huh.*_


I didn't know you were blind. 


Geezus said:


> Yeah unfortunately the Whole pull yourself by your bootstraps mentality our society has does not, so it sits and bitches about the problem and pussyfoots itself around the issue rather than doing something to fix it, and yet we just expect Things to magically work themselves out.
> 
> That and many people like Zaru lack an understanding of problems like poverty and Black poverty, I only have some insight into because I grew up around it and seeing as my Family had been poor before, I noticed how others treated us like shit just because of that, now.
> 
> ...


That's brainwashing for you.

Yeah but many people don't seem to want to seem to understand this.I wonder why?


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## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> I didn't know you were blind.



Point me in the direction then. Come on. You should easily be able to.



Parallax said:


> Zaru's arguments really did devolve to image macros and insults holy fuck


When you get butthurt insults thrown at you instead of arguments, what is there left to do? 


Seto Kaiba said:


> The fact that you had to bring up my ownership, which only makes it abundantly clear you have *no idea* how I run the place.
> 
> Second that you continue to use the aforementioned tactics only solidifying my point that much more. This seems to be a constant thing with you though.
> 
> I can see why you opt to use image macros rather than text, you look less of of a fool with the former.



That you even run the place is enough, sorry 

What tactics? You mean like the one you're using in most threads you post in? Don't act like you're not constantly trying to associate people with something negative to claim you've won, bringing up every minute detail from the past and distorting it like an autistic search engine?


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## reiatsuflow (Nov 10, 2013)

> Yeah but many people don't seem to want to seem to understand this.I wonder why?




Because you have poor people who grow out of poverty and come to the conclusion that a lot of the reasons the people they grew up with were poor was because of their dysfunctional attitudes, and you also have poor people who grow out of poverty and come to the conclusion that there's more to poverty than dysfunctional attitudes. Shit is complicated. Both people are right.


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## martryn (Nov 10, 2013)

This thread has become retarded.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> That you even run the place is enough, sorry



This only establishes how you've run out of substance. You don't even know anything about it, so you are only going on your ignorance. 



> What tactics? You mean like the one you're using in most threads you post in? Don't act like you're not constantly trying to associate people with something negative to claim you've won, bringing up every minute detail from the past and distorting it like an autistic search engine?



When I debate a person numerous times on an issue, and I assume that for anyone with a functioning brain this is true as well...I tend to remember arguments they made in the past on that topic. Especially if they were of noteworthy incredulity. It takes more than simply saying they are, it needs to be provided; which I have each time I'm asked. What's more is rarely do I use such clearly negative labels for a person such as I do yourself. 

You again, however, keep proving my point. Really, the best thing you can do now is spam an image macro.


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## Black Superman (Nov 10, 2013)

> The widening achievement gap between rich and poor students in America is threatening the country’s global competitiveness, says a new report from the Council on Foreign Relations.
> 
> While U.S. per-student spending is on par with other developed counties for K-12 classes, and above average when it comes to higher education, *that spending is distributed inequitably,* with more money going to *higher-income schools and students, according to the “Renewing America Progress Report and Scorecard”* .* Most other developed countries base public school funding on school enrollment, while the U.S. funds its schools via property taxes drawn from the local community.*
> 
> ...



.




> Policy implications[edit]
> 
> *With the knowledge that early educational intervention programs, such as extended childcare during preschool years, can significantly prepare low-income students for educational and life successes, comes a certain degree of responsibility. One policy change that seems necessary to make is that quality child care is available to every child in the United States at an affordable rate. This has been scientifically proven to push students into college, and thus increase social mobility. The ultimate end result of such a reality would be that the widely stratified educational system that exists in the U.S. today would begin to equalize so that every child born, regardless of socioeconomic status, would have the same opportunity to succeed. Many European countries are already exercising such successful educational systems.*
> 
> ...


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## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> I didn't know you were blind.
> 
> That's brainwashing for you.
> 
> Yeah but many people don't seem to want to seem to understand this.I wonder why?



Bringing up the living standards of others lowers their own, like us moving into that subdivision we didn't do any different than we did before in terms of how we managed our property, pitbulls, tractors, car parts etc. We made it to the new place, but it didn't change us socially and this pissed the people around us off. I think its the same they think of if Blacks move to an affluent neighborhood.


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## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> This only establishes how you've run out of substance. You don't even know anything about it, so you are only going on your ignorance.
> 
> When I debate a person numerous times on an issue, and I assume that for anyone with a functioning brain this is true as well...I tend to remember arguments they made in the past on that topic. Especially if they were of noteworthy incredulity. It takes more than simply saying they are, it needs to be provided; which I have each time I'm asked. What's more is rarely do I use such clearly negative labels for a person such as I do yourself.
> 
> You again, however, keep proving my point. Really, the best thing you can do now is spam an image macro.


You're implying that there ever was any substance in this shit flinging we're currently undertaking  

The "substance" is that you think I'm racist, and that you take internet debates VERY seriously. I knew that much before this thread. Now let's go back to the actual thread.

Still waiting for dem samples.


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## Bishop (Nov 10, 2013)

I only think one of you two are serious...


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## Hitt (Nov 10, 2013)

As a regular of ANH Zaru, let me just tell you it's rarely ever on topic, since after all Naruto has gone to shit and very few actually give a shit anymore who ends up fucking who.  It's an anything goes group really.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> You're implying that there ever was any substance in this shit flinging we're currently undertaking



I just said it was the opposite. Did you even read? 



> The "substance" is that you think I'm racist, and that you take internet debates VERY seriously. I knew that much before this thread. Now let's go back to the actual thread.



I more than provided my points, and you keep building on them the more you discuss it. All you have to say in response to not just me, but a fair number that think you're racist is that they misunderstood you or that there is something wrong with the way they take your argument. The fact of the matter is, you constantly try to add commentary to racial issues that you clearly have no understanding of. 

Like, and I'm going to use my brain to recall a thing called 'memory'...when people hounded on you in the twerking thread because you displayed a massive lack of knowledge on black culture, specifically that of the hip-hop/rap culture. Only going on your stereotypes rather than any real knowledge. You asked for examples, but it's clear that now you are just going to go "LIEK OMG U REMEMBER DAT?" to try and deflect from it, no different from the macros you post when you've run out of arguments.


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## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Thread is bringing out all kindz of feels mannnnnnn.


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## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> Thread is bringing out all kindz of feels mannnnnnn.



All kinds of retard too, some cases of full retard as well.


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## reiatsuflow (Nov 10, 2013)

> Because you have poor people who grow out of poverty and come to the conclusion that a lot of the reasons the people they grew up with were poor was because of their dysfunctional attitudes, and you also have poor people who grow out of poverty and come to the conclusion that there's more to poverty than dysfunctional attitudes. Shit is complicated. Both people are right.




I completely disagree.


/included


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## Gain (Nov 10, 2013)

maaaaan what a pussy azz e-race war itt


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## Marth6789 (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru being stupid again...


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## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Hitt said:


> As a regular of ANH Zaru, let me just tell you it's rarely ever on topic, since after all Naruto has gone to shit and very few actually give a shit anymore who ends up fucking who.  It's an anything goes group really.


Good for them?


Seto Kaiba said:


> I just said it was the opposite. Did you even read?
> 
> I more than provided my points, and you keep building on them the more you discuss it. All you have to say in response to not just me, but a fair number that think you're racist is that they misunderstood you or that there is something wrong with the way they take your argument. The fact of the matter is, you constantly try to add commentary to racial issues that you clearly have no understanding of.
> 
> Like, and I'm going to use my brain to recall a thing called 'memory'...when people hounded on you in the twerking thread because you displayed a massive lack of knowledge on black culture, specifically that of the hip-hop/rap culture. Only going on your stereotypes rather than any real knowledge. You asked for examples, but it's clear that now you are just going to go "LIEK OMG U REMEMBER DAT?" to try and deflect from it, no different from the macros you post when you've run out of arguments.



To run out of substance, there needs to be any in the first place. Right back at you.

Hey Seto, guess what I've been asking repeatedly in this thread for HOURS? I asked people who called me racist to provide current examples of things I said that are provably racist and unjustifiable. You know, to go over those things. 
Result: They all disappeared from the face of the earth or went on to post unrelated things or more "das racis". Marth has been bitching about it in multiple threads and he provided in none of them. 

I'm still waiting. Heck, maybe I was wrong, and could learn something. Funny how that turned out.


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## blueblip (Nov 10, 2013)

Holy hell, but this thread 

Okay, sounds like a good movie. But really, that's about it. I fail to see how this movie reflects or adds or explains anything in our modern world. Heck, the very concept and model of slavery has changed so much between the time of the US Civil War and the present.


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## Marth6789 (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Good for them?
> 
> 
> To run out of substance, there needs to be any in the first place. Right back at you.
> ...



My first post I quoted from you man...

You are reaaaaaaaaaly dense. I mean you said it yourself if it wasnt for slavery black people would still be in africa acting like idiots, yet you fail to realize that African socities had democratic governments, giant militray structures, advanced pottery/craftwork, and hell the best university during that early colonial/slave trade days.


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## 2Broken (Nov 10, 2013)

I'm just going to say that the issue of black racism in America today, is that it is built for blacks to fail. People get upset every time they have to here about how bad many black people have it, when many others have it just as bad. The reason that is because many Americans don't want to have any kind of guilt or responsibility forced on them for things they did not do. That is also completely fair, no one today should be blamed for the horrors of slavery, even if their family was involved with it in the past. The whole your father's sins are not your own is true.

The problem is it is undeniable the USA for the most part is setup for black people to go nowhere and the start of that comes from slavery; which is why it gets talked about so much. You cannot take a group of people enslave them for centuries,  make racist laws against them so they will fail and then with little to no supporting resources tell them they are equal to everyone and and should thrive in the established economy that hates them within a human lifetime. It just isn't realistic.

On top of that the main problem that African Americans have that even other minorities in America don't have is that African American Culture is not very old (slave culture isn't much if a culture) and when it started to come up panic and fear got it systematically destroyed. Seriously as an example research how the FBI viewed and dealt with the Black Panthers. The reason why this is important, is because old culture brings resources, collectiveness and education.

All those things were present during key moments in the Civil Rights struggle. Take those away and what have have is poor isolated uneducated black youth against a population that has media and traditional influenced ideas about them. That is the #1 problem in the black community during the last few decades up until today.

In a nutshell it isn't that people should be feeling guilt about what happened to African Americans in the past or that the white people of today owe the black people. It is just that people should understand how the condition of blacks came to be so bad, so they don't blame the victim as many wont do in rape cases, but will do here.


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## Zaru (Nov 10, 2013)

Marth6789 said:


> My first post I quoted from you man...
> 
> You are reaaaaaaaaaly dense. I mean you said it yourself if it wasnt for slavery black people would still be in africa acting like idiots, yet you fail to realize that African socities had democratic governments, giant militray structures, advanced pottery/craftwork, and hell the best university during that early colonial/slave trade days.



Nice joke
I never said anything indicating that and your imagination running wild to misinterpret my post is not my problem


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## Gino (Nov 10, 2013)

Good post 2broken.


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## Geezus (Nov 10, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Nice joke
> I never said anything indicating that and your imagination running wild to misinterpret my post is not my problem



but you did, you said they'd still be living in huts and shit..


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2013)

> Obviously Slavery was terrible, unjustifiable and we can be glad it's officially over, but do you honestly think YOUR life would be better if it never happened? Because chances are you'd never have been born, and otherwise would be living in a badly developed part of Africa now. If you think that's better than your current life, be my guest. Slavery is the reason you can waste time arguing on an anime forum



He really said it.

Wow.


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## Megaharrison (Nov 10, 2013)

I've had enough of this thread.  I declare myself the winner of the debates. Since I have the last word it's automatically true.

Edit: fuck you other mods who will invariably post after me.


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