# Libyan rebels reach Tripoli



## dr_shadow (Aug 21, 2011)

> Heavy fighting and gun battles have broken out in areas of Tripoli after opposition fighters gained control overnight of much of the Libyan capital in their battle to end Muammar Gaddafi's decades-long rule.
> 
> Clashes erupted on Monday after tanks left Bab Aziziya, Gaddafi's compound in Tripoli, to confront the rebel assault.
> 
> ...



Source: 

First post updated again.


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## Coteaz (Aug 21, 2011)

Tripoli is going to be a bloodbath. Those rebels will probably break and run.


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## Toroxus (Aug 21, 2011)

By "reach Triopli" you actually meant they are 20 miles away?

Misleading title isn't misleading, it's just a lie.


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## The Awesome Geert Wilders (Aug 21, 2011)

Yeah, lets all cheer for the Muslim extremists adding another country to their caliphate...


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## Ceria (Aug 21, 2011)

are they on foot? or actually in vehicles? they were probably there by the time the article was finished.


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## The Awesome Geert Wilders (Aug 21, 2011)

We've already stepped up our bombing the shit out of Tripoli so it probably won't be long anymore...


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## Pilaf (Aug 21, 2011)

The Awesome Geert Wilders said:


> Yeah, lets all cheer for the Muslim extremists adding another country to their caliphate...



Do you think Libya has thrived under Colonel Ghaddafi? It's the lesser of two evils for the people you call "Muslim Extemists" to take over. At least they're fighting for some measure of freedom and for the betterment of their people.


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## Megaharrison (Aug 21, 2011)

About damn time. They've been having air support from the combined forces of NATO for months now. It's a mix of failure from both sides.


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## Hatifnatten (Aug 21, 2011)

It getting really repetitive, going back and forth.


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## stream (Aug 21, 2011)

You mean, there is actually a chance that the rebels will win this? I had stopped believing in it like two months ago...


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## Xion (Aug 21, 2011)

Toroxus said:


> By "reach Triopli" you actually meant they are 20 miles away?
> 
> Misleading title isn't misleading, it's just a lie.



Actually there is fighting within Tripoli at the moment and rebels have arrived by sea at Tripoli. So they have "reached" Tripoli.


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## The Awesome Geert Wilders (Aug 21, 2011)

Pilaf said:


> Do you think Libya has thrived under Colonel Ghaddafi?


Yes it did. Libya under Gadaffi obtained the highest Human Developement Index of all of Africa!





Thanks to Gadaffi people in Libya had it better than people in South Africa for example. Even the portugese don't do much better than Libyans. Of thats all over now that these rebels are going to take over...



Pilaf said:


> It's the lesser of two evils for the people you call "Muslim Extemists" to take over. At least they're fighting for some measure of freedom and for the betterment of their people.


Fighting for freedom? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! First thing they'll do after Gadaffi is gone is implement sharia law. How's that for freedom and the betterment of their people? Gadaffi was the best thing ever to happen to Libya. Now watch powerhungry tribal dicks tear this country apart...


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## Xion (Aug 21, 2011)

The Awesome Geert Wilders said:


> Yes it did. Libya under Gadaffi obtained the highest Human Developement Index of all of Africa!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, dictatorships can be markedly efficient. Libya also had one of the lowest freedom-based scores in the world next to Burma and North Korea.

Go back to your xenophobic, island-shooting, right-wing fundamentalist trolling Geert.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 21, 2011)

free the people of the world, oh ye scumbag fascists


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## dr_shadow (Aug 21, 2011)

I changed the article for a new one to reflect the current situation.


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## Jin-E (Aug 21, 2011)

Will be interesting to see if Tripoli becomes some sort of last stand for the regime, or if it will generally melt away like in Baghdad 2003.


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## Keile (Aug 21, 2011)

I still don't even understand how these winnings are even possible given the fact the rebels were but only a few months ago a untrained and undisciplined raggard bunch facing the daunting task of destroying a professional militia.  

But I guess It seems like NATO has pulled off the single greatest military win ever - a total victory without one ground soldier lost in the mayhem.


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## dr_shadow (Aug 21, 2011)

Keile said:


> I still don't even understand how these winnings are even possible given the fact the rebels were but only a few months ago a untrained and undisciplined raggard bunch facing the daunting task of destroying a professional militia.
> 
> But I guess It seems like NATO has pulled off the single greatest military win ever - a total victory without one ground soldier lost in the mayhem.



Not all rebels are untrained. Some of them are former government soldiers who switched sides. A majority are amateurs thoug, I think.


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## Nemesis (Aug 21, 2011)

Keile said:


> I still don't even understand how these winnings are even possible given the fact the rebels were but only a few months ago a untrained and undisciplined raggard bunch facing the daunting task of destroying a professional militia.
> 
> But I guess It seems like NATO has pulled off the single greatest military win ever - a total victory without one ground soldier lost in the mayhem.



Well Gaddaffi kept his main army itself untrained and undisciplined because of fears he had that one day they would do what the rebels are doing right now and rise up against him.

Quite a number of fighters are either his own tribe or foreign mercs who once realising their pay will run out will have no reason to fight anyway.


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## dr_shadow (Aug 21, 2011)

Swedish minister of foreign affairs Carl Bildt asked the relevant question if Qadhafi's government will pressure him into giving up now that they are surrounded, or if this will be a "Berlin bunker scanario" where the city has to be taken one block at a time and the leader stays until the enemy is literaly knocking on his door.

At which point Hitler comitted suecide, but that's forbitten for Muslims. So not sure how Qadhafi would respond.


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## Raiden (Aug 21, 2011)

That's good I guess.

It should have happened sooner.
Guess the US massively overestimated the capabilities of the rebels.
In part

I blame the media for deceiving the public
I do remember almost urgency in that aciton needed to be taken because the rebels were capable of fighting. 

I'm looking at you Anderson.


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## Jin-E (Aug 21, 2011)

I'll go on a leg here and say the deal is pretty much sealed now. The only major regime towns left are Sirte and Sabha and they will probably quickly surrender.



mr_shadow said:


> Not all rebels are untrained. Some of them are former government soldiers who switched sides. A majority are amateurs thoug, I think.



True, but some of the amateurs have received better training now after the earlier fuck ups.


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## Pilaf (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm so terribly shocked to see Geert is banned again. He's such an upstanding and reasonable person.


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## Nemesis (Aug 21, 2011)

Lots of rumours going around now but one thing confirmed is that the Rebels have taken the main base of Gadaffi's elite guards.  Place was being looted and they have Gaddafi's son Seif al-Islam.



Pilaf said:


> I'm so terribly shocked to see Geert is banned again. He's such an upstanding and reasonable person.



I know,  I will hold a vigil for him tonight.

Actually i won't.


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## Xyloxi (Aug 21, 2011)

Pilaf said:


> I'm so terribly shocked to see Geert is banned again. He's such an upstanding and reasonable person.



Why do the good always die young?


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## dr_shadow (Aug 21, 2011)

Nemesis said:


> Lots of rumours going around now but one thing confirmed is that the Rebels have taken the main base of Gadaffi's elite guards.  Place was being looted and *they have Gaddafi's son Seif al-Islam*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is that the guy who's always shouting insults on TV? If so I'm glad they shut him up.


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## Nemesis (Aug 21, 2011)

I think he was the son that was on TV the most (certainly looks like the one).  Not the guy who has been on TV past couple of days though, he is not related.


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## makeoutparadise (Aug 21, 2011)

Buds slowly open on the lybian tree. 
but what fruit that rippens there is still a mystery. 
will the lybian people taste sweet freedom and democracy?
 Or will this arab spring bring more Bitter bloodshed and tyrrany?


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## Schwarzwald (Aug 21, 2011)

Tripoli is falling as we speak....the TV reporters just had their protection leave, two of Gadaffi's sons has been captured...

It's pretty incredible TV

CNNI seems to be covering it better than anyone else atm


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## Sky is Over (Aug 21, 2011)

It's clear at this point that Qaddafi's going to fall along with his government, unless he has a trick up his sleeve like a CBR weapon or possibly an intervention from another military force.

But what I'm more interested in is what will happen when the fighting against the Green's stops. What sort of government will come to power, will the country fall into internal fighting?


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## dr_shadow (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm watching it live on al-Jazeera's English edition. 



The latest is that the Presidential Guard has surrendered.


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## Megaharrison (Aug 21, 2011)

Tripoli fell within hours of the attack. So much for it being a second Stalingrad.

Edit: apparently the Rebels took 1,300 casualties taking the city. Actually a pretty bloody battle but its swiftness of the battle and the rapid capture of the city afterwards indicates the Rebels actually acted competently.


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## dr_shadow (Aug 21, 2011)

Angola and Zimbabwe have apparently offered Qadhafi asylum if he manages to get there. Good going there 

Also the Presidential Guard has surrendered, and rebels are in control of the airport and the highway to Tunisia. State TV has gone black.


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## Akatora (Aug 21, 2011)

@The Awesome Geert Wilders


Money from oil + a maintainable population = Libya prosper

So yeah we should thank whatever is the causes for em not having been as ignorant as the region that'll turn to chaos due to the amount of people...


However he should have allowed elections and he should allow people to say their opinions


Lets hope it'll stay a democratic wave and not turn into worst case scenarios as you fear


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## dr_shadow (Aug 21, 2011)

The International Criminal Court has demanded the handover of Saif al-Islam Qadhafi. This sparked booing in Benghazi, where people seem to essentialy want to see him hang.

We will see what route the Transitional Council takes on what to do with captured members of the Qadhafi family.


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## very bored (Aug 21, 2011)

The fight in Tripoli is over already?  When did it start?


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## Megaharrison (Aug 21, 2011)

very bored said:


> The fight in Tripoli is over already?  When did it start?



Yesterday. Took about 24 hours.


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## Darklyre (Aug 21, 2011)

Sky is Over said:


> It's clear at this point that Qaddafi's going to fall along with his government, unless he has a trick up his sleeve like a CBR weapon or possibly an intervention from another military force.
> 
> But what I'm more interested in is what will happen when the fighting against the Green's stops. What sort of government will come to power, will the country fall into internal fighting?



The question isn't whether it'll fall into sectarian violence, but rather how many and which factions are involved.


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## Coteaz (Aug 21, 2011)

Darklyre said:


> The question isn't whether it'll fall into sectarian violence, but rather how many and which factions are involved.


The various tribes will most certainly be involved. I'm curious as to how the Gaddafi tribe will fare after the fall.


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## Stalin (Aug 21, 2011)

Looking forward to seeing Ghadaffi getting captured.


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## Megaharrison (Aug 21, 2011)

Last stand of Gadaffi going on at the moment. Rebels are storming his palace, 1 has been killed in the firefight still going on.

He may have fled the city, though he claims he hasn't.


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## dr_shadow (Aug 21, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Last stand of Gadaffi going on at the moment. Rebels are storming his palace, 1 has been killed in the firefight still going on.
> 
> He may have fled the city, though he claims he hasn't.



Why isn't al-Jazeera reporting this???


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 21, 2011)

gaddafi is falling! obama has defeated the mad dog!



Coteaz said:


> The various tribes will most certainly be involved. I'm curious as to how the Gaddafi tribe will fare after the fall.



keep hoping and praying that libya fails , then in 1 month u like some others i won't name cause they'll whine, can come on and tell us "i told u so guys"...


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## Utopia Realm (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm under the impression Gadafi's either behind a serious stronghold or the dude turned tail and ran. Guess we'll find out when the rebel's do.


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## Coteaz (Aug 21, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> keep hoping and praying that libya fails , then in 1 month u like some others i won't name cause they'll whine, can come on and tell us "i told u so guys"...


If the new Libya succeeds, the world is a marginally better place. 
If it fails, I get the smug satisfaction of being right.

Either way, I win.


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## Megaharrison (Aug 21, 2011)

The new Libya can hopefully be a counterweight to an increasingly insane Egypt.


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## Pilaf (Aug 21, 2011)

The Middle East is in the throes of a violent birth. We should rejoice.

The trace remnants of Ottoman blood in my veins is a tad warm right now.


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## The Space Cowboy (Aug 21, 2011)

If you want more information, I recommend watching Al Jezeera English.


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## Raiden (Aug 21, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> The new Libya can hopefully be a counterweight to an increasingly insane Egypt.



Is there reason to be optimistic about this?


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 21, 2011)

Funny that this sudden progress came right after that rebel military leader was killed.

Perhaps he was actually a plant for Ghaddafi's forces.


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## Megaharrison (Aug 21, 2011)

President Goobang said:


> Is there reason to be optimistic about this?



Yes and no. Libya and Egypt have had a historically very uneasy relationship. Even before Sadat made peace with Israel and Daffy led the charge to have them expelled from the Arab League for its pro-peace stance, things were tense under the Monarchy/Gadaffi and Nasser. Nasser and Gadaffi talked about unifying the 2 countries in 1969, but after the disastrous United Arab Republic and Nasser's humiliation in the 6 Day War Gadaffi was skeptical it would work and both leader wanted to be the dominant figure. This in turn led to Nasser having one of his classical tissy fits, and relations have been poor since. They fought a war during the 1970's. Another important source of tension is Libya's oil wealth, which poverty-stricken Egypt has long coveted.

That's likely to create tension. On the flip side they're also likely to identify with post-Revolutionary Egypt as well as the imminent Muslim Brotherhood dominated government in Egypt, especially since the Libyan Rebels are so religiously inclined. 

However whatever short honeymoon they have I think will be broken under the historic tension they have, especially with Post-Mubarak Egypt desperate for scapegoats and foreign confrontation. At the same time it's extremely difficult to deal with Egypt diplomatically. They're very obtuse, proud, and sensitive. Only the U.S. really can deal with them without the chest-beating, threats, insults, and proclamations of conspiracy. And that's because the Americans have them by the balls with foreign aid.


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## Raiden (Aug 21, 2011)

So shouldn't Obama's foreign policy to be to pull strings behind the scenes to ensure stable leadership?


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## Megaharrison (Aug 21, 2011)

President Goobang said:


> So shouldn't Obama's foreign policy to be to pull strings behind the scenes to ensure stable leadership?



They along with the Europeans should step in and offer all the aid (both humanitarian and military) to ensure that Libya remains indebted to them and doesn't return to old habits.

The Libyan Rebels aren't peace-loving secularists. They're Islamists, not radically uncompromising ones (you can tell with their governorship of their territories for the last few months) but still Islamists nonetheless. They need to be monitored and controlled if a new Libya is going to prosper and not be a threat to the world.


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## Akatora (Aug 22, 2011)

would be nice if they'd somehow reach an agreement to never mix religion and politics

the chance of that taking place anytime the next decade is slim to none sadly


The more I see of these conflicts, the more convinced I get that humans created gods to escape their fears and to have a higher power to blame for their actions :/


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## Raiden (Aug 22, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> They along with the Europeans should step in and offer all the aid (both humanitarian and military) to ensure that Libya remains indebted to them and doesn't return to old habits.
> 
> The Libyan Rebels aren't peace-loving secularists. They're Islamists, not radically uncompromising ones (you can tell with their governorship of their territories for the last few months) but still Islamists nonetheless. They need to be monitored and controlled if a new Libya is going to prosper and not be a threat to the world.



Ok.

I hope the West (and Europe) have at least learned a few lessons from Egypt now...


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## dr_shadow (Aug 22, 2011)

A rebel interviewed by al-Jazeera, "Nasser", says the rebels are sure Qadhafi is somewhere in Tripoli, but that he is not inside Tripoli palace. This implies the rebels have now captured and searched the facility, althoug he did not specificly adress the assualt on the palace mentioned by Megaharrison.


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## Xion (Aug 22, 2011)

Twelve Apostles of the Libyan Apocalypse- Xion's Detailed Analysis:

Okay so let's go down the Libyan equivalent of the Iraqi deck of cards and the current statuses.

1.) Muammar Gaddafi - Dear Leader of Libya - Fate Unknown - He is likely not dead or captured and it is uncertain if he remains in Tripoli (curious he wouldn't be, since his family mostly was). He could have fled to Sirte (less likely given proximity to rebels) or Sabha in southern Libya. If not, he might have fled to Algeria, Tunisia, or one of the African nations that like him. It is unclear where he is. An ICC arrest warrant has been issued for him.



2.) Abdullah Senussi - Security Chief and Dear Leader's Brother-in-Law - Fate Unknown - Likely alive in and around Libya somewhere. Possibly with Gaddafi. Earlier reports suggested he was injured or killed in a firefight with no updates as to that. Hence presumed alive and likely in Tripoli, Sirte, or Sabha if he hasn't already fled the country. Wanted by the ICC and has an arrest warrant issued for him.



3.) Saif al-Islam Gaddafi - Gaddafi's Heir Apparent and De Facto 2nd in Command - Captured by Rebels - Either captured in a western tourist section of Tripoli by rebels or handed over by his brigade who surrendered. Unknown where he is being held or how they captured him. Talk of being transferred to the Hague due to an arrest warrant for him by the ICC. Unknown if that will occur. Highest Libyan official to be captured/killed/defected.



4.) Muhammad al-Gaddafi - Eldest Son of Dear Leader - Captured by Rebels - In charge of a lot of various state affairs with an unknown role in the current conflict. He was put under house arrest by rebels and gave an interview to AJA confirming such (although shots were heard in the house before the interview ended - apparently rebels tried storming the house and his guard fought back but all is well now). Unknown what will happen to him.



5.) Al-Saadi al-Gaddafi - Football Fan Son of Dear Leader - Captured by Rebels - Likely held military leadership position during the civil war and supported his father's policies. A spoiled brat who bought his way onto profession football (soccer) teams and used his influence to get his way. He was captured by rebels and it is unknown what his fate will be.



6.) Hannibal Muammar al-Gaddafi - Another Random Son of Dear Leader - Fate Unknown - Likely has provided tactical or military support like Gaddafi's other sons, but that is unknown. He is notable for his shenanigans and arrest in Switzerland which created a diplomatic row. Where he is now and what his fate will be is yet to be seen.



7.) Al-Mu'tasim-Billah al-Gaddafi - Libyan General and Son of Dear Leader - Fate Unknown - This guy is trouble. He was actively involved in the Battle for Brega and as such might currently be stationed around there and Sirte and the Eastern Front. Video of him leading troops against rebels exists and it is alleged he executed troops that refused to fight. Hopefully he will be captured or killed soon.



8.) Saif al-Arab al-Gaddafi - Possible Military Leader and Son of Dear Leader - Presumed KIA - Unsure role in conflict. He is another one of Gaddafi's endless supply of sons though. He was supposedly killed along with several children and grandchildren of Colonel Gaddafi not long into the conflict by a NATO bombing on his house. 



9.) Khamis al-Gaddafi - Leader of the Khamis Brigade and Son of Dear Leader - Fate Unknown - Most militantly active son of Gaddafi. This prick led the Zlitan offensive most likely that cost so many lives and which battled for Misrata - the bloodiest in the war. He is presumed to be around Al Khums or so after Zlitan was lost to the rebels. The capture or death of this man, the leader of the most elite of Libya's brigades, would be most welcome. After Saif al-Islam and perhaps Mutassim, he is the most dangerous and responsible son in regards to war crimes.



10.) Ayesha al-Gaddafi - Dear Leader's Daughter - Fate Unknown - Her role in the conflict is likely just as a state mouthpiece. She might not even be in Libya, but if she is it'd be nice for her to at least get smacked around a bit for blatantly supporting her father's murderous rampage.


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## Xion (Aug 22, 2011)

11.) Abu-Bakr Yunis Jabr - Libyan Defense Minister - Possibly KIA by Gaddafi but Fate Unknown - This guy is an enigma. He might have initially refused to fire upon protesters and been imprisoned by Gaddafi. It was then reported he was executed. Then it was shown he was leading troops again. If he's still alive, we wish him a speedy arrest and trial.



12.) Moussa Ibrahim - Libyan Minister of MisInformation - Fate Unknown - Doesn't shut up about how great Libya is. Is well known in the Western conspiratorial circles as the only unbiased source in Libya. Recent info seems to suggest his house was surrounded by rebels. Hopefully will be captured soon.



That's my roundup of the Twelve Apostles of the Libyan Apocalypse! Wish I had the time to put card suits on them and all.


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## ExoSkel (Aug 22, 2011)

My favorite unfounded-rumor monger is the “independent” “reporter” who uncritically reports pro-Gaddafi propaganda from Tripoli on Russia Today (the Russian 24-hour propaganda network that’s worse than PressTV in terms of objectivity). She reminds me a lot of Mohammad Saef al-Sahhaf trying to claim that all is well in Baghdad as US troops take over one of Saddam’s palaces a block away.


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## impersonal (Aug 22, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> The new Libya can hopefully be a counterweight to an increasingly insane Egypt.


Egypt doesn't seem that bad to me... I think there's good reason to think Libya will be worse...


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## Alien (Aug 22, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Tripoli fell within hours of the attack. So much for it being a second Stalingrad.
> 
> Edit: apparently the Rebels took 1,300 casualties taking the city. Actually a pretty bloody battle but its swiftness of the battle and the rapid capture of the city afterwards indicates the Rebels actually acted competently.



1300 sounds like a a relatively large amount. They must have really wanted to take Tripoli fast now.

Are there any estimates on how many casualties they took during the rest of the conflict ?


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## Kagekatsu (Aug 22, 2011)

Huh, guess the rebels managed to pull this off in spite of themselves. Sure took them long enough.

Course, the big question that will come after this: Does Libya manage to behave, or possibly turn out even worse than the previous regime?


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## Jin-E (Aug 22, 2011)

The 4 guys in front were the leaders of Tunisia, Yemen, Libya and Egypt. This picture was taken in 2010.

If anyone had told me back then that all of these leaders would be pwnt by next year, i admit i would have thought of them as hippie treehuggers or some leftover neocon.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Aug 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> The 4 guys in front were the leaders of Tunisia, Yemen, Libya and Egypt. This picture was taken in 2010.
> 
> If anyone had told me back then that all of these leaders would be pwnt by next year, i admit i would have thought of them as hippie treehuggers or some leftover neocon.


I don't blame you, it's truly been a wave of change. I just hope more regimes get taken down and better government go up, but I know that would be kinda hard to accomplish, but then again there is the picture


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 22, 2011)

Kagekatsu said:


> Huh, guess the rebels managed to pull this off in spite of themselves. Sure took them long enough.
> 
> Course, the big question that will come after this: Does Libya manage to behave, or possibly turn out even worse than the previous regime?



"took them long enough"? are you high? u mean including the 41 years gaddafi was brutalizing them or just the 6 months it took to take him down?  

let's have some perspective here people


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## dr_shadow (Aug 22, 2011)

al-Jazeera says the palace is not yet captured. When the rebels approached tanks came out and shot at them. Now the rebels are focusing on capturing all areas of Tripoli (about 20% was remaining when I went to sleep 8 hours ago, not sure now). After that they will focus all force on the palace.

"Saving the best for last" so to speak.


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## Archangel Michael (Aug 22, 2011)

I thought it said Libyan rebels reach trolls :WOW


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## dr_shadow (Aug 22, 2011)

lancebob said:


> I thought it said Libyan rebels reach trolls :WOW



Qadhafi _is_ a troll...


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## Megaharrison (Aug 22, 2011)

South African Air Force planes were in Tripoli airport last night apparently. Gadaffi may be getting asylum there. The ANC regime there has been extremely supportive of Gadaffi historically so it makes sense.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 22, 2011)

how did they get planes thru the no-fly zone


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## Darklyre (Aug 22, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> how did they get planes thru the no-fly zone



AFAIK, it's only a no-fly-zone for Libyan government planes, not a total exclusion "you fly without NATO IFF and you'll get blasted" order.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 22, 2011)

Darklyre said:


> AFAIK, it's only a no-fly-zone for Libyan government planes, not a total exclusion "you fly without NATO IFF and you'll get blasted" order.



i think it is that sort of no fly zone.  even rebels had aquired planes that they were not allowed to fly


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## Nemesis (Aug 22, 2011)

Actually that is true, the Rebels did have a couple of jets but nato forced them to be grounded in the early days of the NFZ.

But there are exceptions to the NFZ, especially if you get permission from those enforcing it.


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## Talon. (Aug 22, 2011)

way to go Rebels 


bring down the Gaddafhi Death Star with the Force


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## Prince Vegeta (Aug 22, 2011)

Ghadafi is so sad now


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## soulnova (Aug 22, 2011)

Damn, I'm lost. Is it over now? I'm seeing some pics surfacing with people cheering. Is he captured? Did he flee? Is he going out with a _Bang?_ ?


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## Nemesis (Aug 22, 2011)

I think he might be in Sirte.  Reports that scuds have been fired from there in the recent hours.

Also lol at one of Gadaffi's sons being captured while giving an interview live on Al Jazeera.


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## dr_shadow (Aug 22, 2011)

soulnova said:


> Damn, I'm lost. Is it over now? I'm seeing some pics surfacing with people cheering. Is he captured? Did he flee? Is he going out with a _Bang?_ ?



The rebels have control over most of Tripoli, but are yet to penetrate the Bab az-Azizya ("the shining gate"), Qadhafi's residence that I am for convenience just calling Tripoli Palace.

We don't know if big Q is still inside the building or not, but many loyalist fighters definitly are. If he is inside, it is likely to be in an underground bunker and not on street level.


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## kayanathera (Aug 22, 2011)

Kagekatsu said:


> Huh, guess the rebels managed to pull this off in spite of themselves. Sure took them long enough.
> 
> Course, the big question that will come after this: Does Libya manage to behave, or possibly turn out even worse than the previous regime?



you mean special forces manage this.you have to be pretty ignorant on military issues to think that the rebels managed to reach Tripoli on their own


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## dr_shadow (Aug 22, 2011)

NATO has started bombing Tripoli Palace.


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## Megaharrison (Aug 22, 2011)

kayanathera said:


> you mean special forces manage this.you have to be pretty ignorant on military issues to think that the rebels managed to reach Tripoli on their own



They did, though they had significant (though often bumbling) NATO air support.

It's really not that astonishing of an accomplishment when you consider what horrible shape the Libyan Military was in.


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## dr_shadow (Aug 22, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> They did, though they had significant (though often bumbling) NATO air support.
> 
> It's really not that astonishing of an accomplishment when you consider what horrible shape the Libyan Military was in.



Mega, how long do you estimate the airstrike against the palace will last before they send in ground forces? I need to know when I should be back at the TV.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 22, 2011)

nato has been providing logistical "support" (i imagine they basically told the rebels what to do).    It explains why last week the rebels were only moving towards west of tripoli and yesterday they took it.


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## Xion (Aug 22, 2011)

Mohammad escaped. Saif was never captured.

Epic fail.


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## Nemesis (Aug 22, 2011)

Something actually stinks about this.  Perhaps some of rebels have infiltrators working for Gaddafi amongst them.


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## Stalin (Aug 22, 2011)

Neo-liberalism a greater threat to Libya than tribalism or extreme Islam.


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## Raiden (Aug 22, 2011)

President should have held his tongue lol


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## Stalin (Aug 22, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvevvrOozXs&feature=watch_response_rev[/YOUTUBE]


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 22, 2011)

obama beat osama, beat gaddafi, beat bush, and he beat u clowns


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## Stalin (Aug 22, 2011)

*T*ripoli has been liberated. Rebellion has overthrown an Opressive regime. Libya has a though road ahead. Long live the the rebellion.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 22, 2011)

the rebels are gonna have to kill the gadafis if they can't be properly detained and extradited.    u can't have those clowns running around like they are.  i'm kinda sure saif will get shot down in the street anyway.


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## dr_shadow (Aug 23, 2011)

His name is Saif al-Islam, "the sword of Islam". If you just call him Saif it sounds like a nickname, "swordie".

Which is ok if it's intentional. Just letting everyone know.


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## dr_shadow (Aug 23, 2011)

According to my Chinese GF, China has now said that they will "respect the decision of the Libyan people". I.e recognize the NTC as the legitimate government.

China as usual arrives at the football game when there's one minute left and cheers for whoever is winning.


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## Megaharrison (Aug 23, 2011)

Gadaffi fired 3 Scuds at Misrata, NATO fighter jets shot one down (as it was being launched I imagine) and the other 2 missed.


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## Xyloxi (Aug 23, 2011)

mr_shadow said:


> According to my Chinese GF, China has now said that they will "respect the decision of the Libyan people". I.e recognize the NTC as the legitimate government.
> 
> China as usual arrives at the football game when there's one minute left and cheers for whoever is winning.



At least China hasn't turned up drunk and starting fights?


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## Perseverance (Aug 23, 2011)

I am crying in happiness right now....


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## Megaharrison (Aug 23, 2011)

CNN reporting on celebratory gunfire. They're even firing off shoulder surface-to-air missiles in applause. Oi vey.


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## dr_shadow (Aug 23, 2011)

Rebels have now caputured Bab az-Azizya (Tripoli Palace) and seem more occupied with destroying various artifacts linked to Qadhafi than finding the man himself.

Among other things the rebels have burned the beduin tent that used to serve as Qadhafi's sleeping quarters.


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## Dionysus (Aug 23, 2011)

mr_shadow said:


> According to my Chinese GF, China has now said that they will "respect the decision of the Libyan people". I.e recognize the NTC as the legitimate government.
> 
> China as usual arrives at the football game when there's one minute left and cheers for whoever is winning.




Here's why they're now issuing more support.


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## T4R0K (Aug 23, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> CNN reporting on celebratory gunfire. They're even firing off shoulder surface-to-air missiles in applause. Oi vey.



I'm suddenly less optimistic as to their hability to rebuilt a sane country.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 23, 2011)

T4R0K said:


> I'm suddenly less optimistic as to their hability to rebuilt a sane country.



sort of like ur ability to put together an english sentence. ouch , that was mean


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## Raiden (Aug 23, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> obama beat osama, beat gaddafi, beat bush, and he beat u clowns



He can never beat the Cafe.


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## Orochibuto (Aug 23, 2011)

What happened to the hot Amazon squad? 

If they are captured I offer only and only the ladies of the squad political assylum at my home.


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## Megaharrison (Aug 23, 2011)

Orochibuto said:


> What happened to the hot Amazon squad?
> 
> If they are captured I offer only and only the ladies of the squad political assylum at my home.



Gadaffi killed them several months ago after purging his retinue of those who don't come from his clan.

The Libyan Civil War is very much a tribal/sectarian conflict, much like Iraq. Namely, the Bayada Tribe attempting to wrest power from the Gadhadaffa, Gadaffi's tribe which enjoyed special social status under his rule. It's why the core of loyalist forces have been from the Khamis Brigade (made up entirely of Gadhadaffa Tribesmen) and African mercenaries who have no tribal loyalties.


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## Bear Walken (Aug 23, 2011)

mr_shadow said:


> Rebels have now caputured Bab az-Azizya (Tripoli Palace) and seem more occupied with destroying various artifacts linked to Qadhafi than finding the man himself.
> 
> Among other things the rebels have burned the beduin tent that used to serve as Qadhafi's sleeping quarters.



Before the quake took over the news. MSNBC was interviewing a rebel who raided Qadhafi's bedroom. Dude was rocking this hat ...



That was a boss moment for that dude.


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## Dionysus (Aug 23, 2011)

The new Libyan government should sell off Gaddafi's wardrobe to help pay for rebuilding. You too can bask in the summer sun wearing one of these (a small sample):


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## Mael (Aug 23, 2011)

Middle one is his tribute to Michael Jackson.


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## Punpun (Aug 23, 2011)

What a poor taste.


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## Megaharrison (Aug 23, 2011)

Bear Walken said:


> Before the quake took over the news. MSNBC was interviewing a rebel who raided Qadhafi's bedroom. Dude was rocking this hat ...
> 
> 
> 
> That was a boss moment for that dude.


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## Dionysus (Aug 23, 2011)

Hahaha. That looks like a snapshot from Mad Max.


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## impersonal (Aug 23, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> *S*ort of like *yo*ur ability to put together an *E*nglish sentence. ouch , that was mean


What foreign languages can you speak?


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## Mael (Aug 23, 2011)

impersonal said:


> What foreign languages can you speak?



Ebonics?


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## No.1Moose (Aug 23, 2011)

I can imagine Gaddafi hiding in Libya under a fake name and some massive beard like that Serbian war criminal lol


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## Hiruzen (Aug 23, 2011)

Dionysus said:


> The new Libyan government should sell off Gaddafi's wardrobe to help pay for rebuilding. You too can bask in the summer sun wearing one of these (a small sample):



I'd buy a robe or two


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## makeoutparadise (Aug 23, 2011)

They've taken the palace 
*Rebels overrun Gaddafi compound!*
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14630702


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## Orochibuto (Aug 23, 2011)

So he escaped right? Well it was pretty much a given he wont be captured, he must be in an allied country by now. He should have resigned when he had the chance, they would only had made him step out and would have been allowed to go away with all his billions.


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## SwordKing (Aug 23, 2011)

Next comes the tricky part of every revolution, as several on this thread have stated before me, making sure you aren't exchanging one tyrant for another.


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## dr_shadow (Aug 23, 2011)

Orochibuto said:


> So he escaped right? Well it was pretty much a given he wont be captured, he must be in an allied country by now. He should have resigned when he had the chance, they would only had made him step out and would have been allowed to go away with all his billions.



His spokesman Musa Ibrahim (aka. annoying guy on TV) says they made a "tactical retreat". So yeah, they ran.


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## Nemesis (Aug 24, 2011)

Reports are about that the water supply in Tripoli has been poisoned (BBC live feed), also scuds from Sirte have been fired towards misrata in the past couple of hours.


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## Megaharrison (Aug 24, 2011)

Hilarious video on Russian media demonstrating why they're even worse then Al Jazeera when it comes to overt bias. They found this far-left loon from the "Voltaire Group", apparently a Socialist pro-Chavez/Castro/etc. group that is obviously displeased with the fall of Gadaffi:


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 24, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Hilarious video on Russian media demonstrating why they're even worse then Al Jazeera when it comes to overt bias. They found this far-left loon from the "Voltaire Group", apparently a Socialist pro-Chavez/Castro/etc. group that is obviously displeased with the fall of Gadaffi:


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 24, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> obama beat osama, beat gaddafi, beat bush, and he beat u clowns



Gaddafi was beaten by the rebels helped by NATO.


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## Super_Monster (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm convinced that the war in Libya was not done primarily for oil, for the reasons here:  but can someone well read on the matter give me more reasons as to why?


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 24, 2011)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Gaddafi was beaten by the rebels helped by NATO.



pssh, yeah   i don't think nato countries even cared till the US cared to interfere in libya.  ffs germany abstained from the mission.


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## Nemesis (Aug 24, 2011)

Apart from the fact UK and France are both NATO countries and were pushing for intervention before the US even thought about it makes your claim false.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 25, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> pssh, yeah   i don't think nato countries even cared till the US cared to interfere in libya.  ffs germany abstained from the mission.



You've got that backwards.


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## Megaharrison (Aug 25, 2011)

I do think the Europeans would not have intervened in Libya if the U.S. did not agree to. You can claim that this isn't true since the French acted first, but I'm fairly sure they already knew the Americans would jump in shortly by that point. Particularly, the large amount of targets hit in the opening American salvo (hundreds simultaneously) indicates they had spent quite some time planning for the strike, not the day or so there was between the French airstrikes and American Cruise Missile attacks. Sarkozy got the assurances from the Americans he needed before initiating the attack imo.

However the US quickly abandoned the situation and I think that was the primary factor in the war dragging on as long as it id. When Obama bailed after the first week or so it was left to a rather confused Anglo-French-led air operation whose bulk of forces were from Norway and who clearly didn't know how much forces they needed to commit or what kind of air support they needed to apply (tended to just strike strategic targets over tactical CAS). Hopefully the next NATO op led by Europeans shows a bit more skill to it and hopefully the Americans don't pull a "screw you guys I'm going home" a few days after it starts.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 25, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> obama beat osama, beat gaddafi, beat bush, and he beat u clowns


 I thought the SEALS took down Osama and then I thought the rebels won over Qaddāfī.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 25, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I thought the SEALS took down Osama and then I thought the rebels won over Qaddāfī.



_commander-in-chief_=obama


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 25, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> _commander-in-chief_=obama



Not at all, the command in chef was the commander of NATO, backed by politicians from France, the UK and the US but the US took distance with the military intervention there.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 25, 2011)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Not at all, the command in chef was the commander of NATO, backed by politicians from France, the UK and the US but the US took distance with the military intervention there.



the US military ultimately takes their orders from their commander in chief, that's how US military works, no matter the mission.  If obama told them to stop what they are doing and come back to the US, they would have to without hesitation.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 25, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> the US military ultimately takes their orders from their commander in chief, that's how US military works, no matter the mission.  If obama told them to stop what they are doing and come back to the US, they would have to without hesitation.



It's the same for British military french and most of military. But the operations wasn't commanded by Obama, It was by the NATO.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 25, 2011)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> It's the same for British military french and most of military. But the operations wasn't commanded by Obama, It was by the NATO.



ur right that obama didn't actually pick the targets and talk on the walkie-talkie and yell fire.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 25, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> ur right that obama didn't actually pick the targets and talk on the walkie-talkie and yell fire.



Obama was like Sarkozy and Cameron. They were part of the politics action on the conflict. 
The huge jobs was dopne by the rebels who risk their life. They were helped by NATO for strategy.


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## Orochibuto (Aug 25, 2011)

Who here honestly thought Gaddafi would be captured?


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## T4R0K (Aug 25, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate, you're implying Obama commands the NATO.

That's what LeMale is telling you is untrue. He commands the US armed forces, which are not as omnipresent in this conflict as in others. He commands his army, Sarko commands ours, and Cameron the British part of it, just as every NATO leader involved, and they coordinate together.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 25, 2011)

T4R0K said:


> NarutoSimpsonUltimate, you're implying Obama commands the NATO.
> 
> That's what LeMale is telling you is untrue. He commands the US armed forces, which are not as omnipresent in this conflict as in others. He commands his army, Sarko commands ours, and Cameron the British part of it, just as every NATO leader involved, and they coordinate together.



no, i'm implying that the entanglement is obamas responsibility on the part of the americans, and it's his success.  Germany's merkel(?) , who didn't get involved, gets no credit.  see?


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## T4R0K (Aug 25, 2011)

Then what the hell was that argument with LeMale for ?


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 25, 2011)

i wasn't arguing , i maintain my original position.  obama ordered americans into the libya mission, we won, obama won, that's that.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 25, 2011)

But why you disagree with me when I say Gaddafi was beaten by the rebels and minimizes the involvement of other NATO countries. NATO was far from be complete but you can't deny the involvement of countries like France and the UK is the operations. The US was also there but didn't want to command NATO, a structure made by them for being commanded by them. The US did trust in the good evolution of the operations that why they limit they involvement there. This is why I don't believe all the merit is for Obama. It could be seen as a Obama victory in the national stage because the were huge opposition to the intervention in the US but that all. 
In my opinion, the merit is for the rebels and the NATO forces that help them (americans, french, british, italians and other nationalities include).


Edit: Ok Simpson, but please, be more clear because your comments could be misunderstood...


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## MF NaruSimpson (Aug 25, 2011)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> But why you disagree with me when I say Gaddafi was beaten by the rebels and minimizes the involvement of other NATO countries. NATO was far from be complete but you can't deny the involvement of countries like France and the UK is the operations. The US was also there but didn't want to command NATO, a structure made by them for being commanded by them. The US did trust in the good evolution of the operations that why they limit they involvement there. This is why I don't believe all the merit is for Obama. It could be seen as a Obama victory in the national stage because the were huge opposition to the intervention in the US but that all.
> In my opinion, the merit is for the rebels and the NATO forces that help them (americans, french, british, italians and other nationalities include).



my only interest , after the libyan security situation , is my domestic situation.  i'm not concerned with who else gets credit.  if the whole mission turned to shit obama would have gotten the blame, for any of 100 reasons u can think of  eg. not leading the mission, not participating enough, participating too early/late, no ground troops, etc...  as it is, his gamble was perfect, from the domestic perspective.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Aug 25, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> my only interest , after the libyan security situation , is my domestic situation.  i'm not concerned with who else gets credit.  if the whole mission turned to shit obama would have gotten the blame, for any of 100 reasons u can think of  eg. not leading the mission, not participating enough, participating too early/late, no ground troops, etc...  as it is, his gamble was perfect, from the domestic perspective.



Yes, I edited my message because I wasn't sure you opinion was based on a domestic perspective. In the United states stage, it's an Obama victory against those who didn't want to be involved in this.


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