# R.I.P. Hulk Hogan's career



## Hand Banana (Jul 26, 2015)

> *Wrestler Hulk Hogan fired over race outburst caught on tape*
> 
> N-word rant emerges from libel case brought against gossip website Gawker
> 
> ...



http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/24/hulk-hogan-fired-wwe-racist-recordings

Race card was enhanced since white people made Bill Cosby fold. An eye for an eye.


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## Xiammes (Jul 26, 2015)

Who's ready for the hulkamania retcon?


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## Undead (Jul 26, 2015)

Somewhere out there, Iron Sheik is smiling. :ignoramus


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## Kira Yamato (Jul 26, 2015)

Xiammes said:


> Who's ready for the hulkamania retcon?



Recent Cosby and Hogan news are in fact retconing my entire childhood.


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## Undead (Jul 26, 2015)

Called it!


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## LordPerucho (Jul 26, 2015)

Geralt said:


> Somewhere out there, Iron Sheik is smiling. :ignoramus



He is .


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## Onomatopoeia (Jul 26, 2015)

Sooo...they're going nuts over something that happened eight years ago and hasn't apparently happened since?


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## EJ (Jul 26, 2015)

Geralt said:


> Called it!



That dude Virgil sort of Uncle-Tom'd it. And I hate using that phrase.


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## Seto Kaiba (Jul 26, 2015)

YOU SEE WE JUST CAN'T BE MIXING THE RACES LIKE THAT, BROTHER! GOTTA KEEP THEM SEPARATE, BROTHER! ALL FOR THE PURITY OF THE WHITE MASTER RACE, BROTHER! CUZ WHAT YOU GONNA DO WHEN HELTER SKELTER RUNS WILD ON YOU!!!?



Onomatopoeia said:


> Sooo...they're going nuts over something that happened eight years ago and hasn't apparently happened since?



Well, while he did apologize are you really going to be this obtuse?


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## EJ (Jul 26, 2015)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Sooo...they're going nuts over something that happened eight years ago and hasn't apparently happened since?



Eight years really isn't long ago when you really think about it.

It's not like he's had a change of heart within that time frame most likely.


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## Soca (Jul 26, 2015)

bahahaaaahhaha


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## EJ (Jul 26, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> YOU SEE WE JUST CAN'T BE MIXING THE RACES LIKE THAT, BROTHER! GOTTA KEEP THEM SEPARATE, BROTHER! ALL FOR THE PURITY OF THE WHITE MASTER RACE, BROTHER! CUZ WHAT YOU GONNA DO WHEN HELTER SKELTER RUNS WILD ON YOU!!!?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, while he did apologize are you really going to be this obtuse?



Hulk Hogan is literally the epitome of the kind of white old guy that has all kinds of 'black friends', and probably wouldn't 'care that much' at people from different ethnicitiy mixing together...but the moment it's his white daughter with a black man that's when the line has been crossed for him.


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## Vandal Savage (Jul 26, 2015)

Say it ain't so Hulkster. 

I can't even say I'm surprised but this is definitely a blemish that is going to be hard for him to come back from if at all.


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## Hand Banana (Jul 26, 2015)

R.I.P. 

[YOUTUBE]J6HcPSSIm60[/YOUTUBE]


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## EJ (Jul 26, 2015)

> But the Daily Beast says WWE’s actions were because of something else. “Other sources, however, claim that the controversial audio that got Hogan scrubbed is in addition to the radio interview,” Marlow Stern writes. And, considering that the 2012 interview was broadcast over satellite radio and was not any kind of private recording, this would seem to be the case. That interview had been out there for three years.
> 
> CNN commentator Marc Lamont Hill said early Friday that WWE indeed took action because of a separate audio recording that goes above and beyond what Hogan said in the 2012 interview. According to Hill, Hogan went on a racial tirade against wrestling superstar The Rock.





WOAH

Oh man...and Dwayne Johnson looked up to him as a kid and had an iconic match-up with him. Good lord Hulk Hogan sat on the bee's nest on this one. Don't even feel bad for him if he said all that shit about The Rock. I mean minus the sex-tape.

Says he called the Rock a ^ (use bro) and sambo.


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## Hand Banana (Jul 26, 2015)

See this is the first interview I heard. Now this video is ok. I can respect him for this. 

[YOUTUBE]f20Z-iGVoP0[/YOUTUBE]


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## Huey Freeman (Jul 26, 2015)

Booker wasn't lying when he said he be coming for Hogan, took a while but he did came


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## Мoon (Jul 26, 2015)

Uh oh. /pol is going to throw an outrage at this and make possible half bigots go full swing. More fuel to the fire...damn you Hulk Hogan. This is all so WWE can get some publicity,


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## Atem (Jul 26, 2015)

Next up Mr. Rogers and his rap sheet.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jul 26, 2015)




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## Jon Moxley (Jul 26, 2015)

this news was reported yesterday doe


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## Pliskin (Jul 26, 2015)

Don't know how I feel over a public execution of a person over what is essentially leaked pilow talk, even though it is pretty damning.

However, from a business side it sure is understandable, the same way your business does not want to be associated with people sporting nazi uniforms (if your business is not the royal family at least).


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## YrtNes Mai (Jul 26, 2015)

MbS said:


> The very fact that only certain people can say certain words is racist in of itself.



No it isn't. What type of logic is this?

What's it with white people and their obsession with saying the N-Word? White people CAN say the N-word....I'm sure a lot of them do in the safety of their homes, if you say it to a black person you deserve an ass whooping


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## SLB (Jul 26, 2015)

to be completely fair... he never once made it seem like he wasn't out of his fucking mind. even when i was pathologically obsessed with wrestling in middle school, i knew watching those classics, that this fool was nuts. 



Le M?le Dominant said:


>



meh


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jul 26, 2015)

YrtNes Mai said:


> White people CAN say the N-word....I'm sure a lot of them do in the safety of their homes,



He did, in private, and he's been penalised for it.



> if you say it to a black person you deserve an ass whooping



He didn't.

So yeah, piss off little noob.

You have to have fifty posts before you earn the right for me to respond to you seriously.


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## Hand Banana (Jul 26, 2015)

Rytlock Brimstone said:


> Next up Mr. Rogers and his rap sheet.



Mr Rogers is dead.

Born: March 20, 1928, Latrobe, PA
Died: February 27, 2003, Pittsburgh, PA


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## Seto Kaiba (Jul 26, 2015)

MbS said:


> He did, in private, and he's been penalised for it.



No he hasn't. You stupidly think freedom of speech means freedom from consequence, it does not. He can say what he wants, all that means is he can't be punished by the government for it. Businesses and individuals have their own rights, and it is within their rights to cut ties with him in the event of such rhetoric coming to light.



> He didn't.
> 
> So yeah, piss off little noob.
> 
> You have to have fifty posts before you earn the right for me to respond to you seriously.



He never said Hogan did.

You're just upset you can't make a point you fucking hypocrite. You throw a bitchfit on transgender issues, but matters like this you sing an entirely different tune. I wouldn't recommend hitting a person for throwing a slur at you, but it's an entirely foolish thing to do, and there's really only one reason why a person would do such a thin to begin with.


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## Buskuv (Jul 26, 2015)

That's fine; got his just desserts.

As long as he still brings Gawker to its knees.


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## Xiammes (Jul 26, 2015)

Hogans final accomplishment will be taking down Gawker


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## Parallax (Jul 26, 2015)

Hogan's career died to take down Gawker


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## Buskuv (Jul 26, 2015)

Parallax said:


> Hogan's career died to take down Gawker



He's the hero we need, not the hero we deserve.


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## Atem (Jul 26, 2015)

NaS said:


> Mr Rogers is dead.
> 
> Born: March 20, 1928, Latrobe, PA
> Died: February 27, 2003, Pittsburgh, PA



As if that would stop anyone from digging into his past, and revealing whatever dark secrets he had to hide posthumously.


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## Mider T (Jul 26, 2015)

^Thanks for breaking that mod combo.


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## scerpers (Jul 26, 2015)

BRING BACK BENOIT


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## Brian (Jul 27, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]9n1Q8xBUKDE[/YOUTUBE]


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## Evil (Jul 27, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Ka40KovVo[/YOUTUBE]

Hulk Hogan's too blunt, he should have learned from Muhammad Ali.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jul 27, 2015)

People like wrestling, it's already worse than racism .


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## Evil (Jul 27, 2015)

NaS said:


> See this is the first interview I heard. Now this video is ok. I can respect him for this.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]f20Z-iGVoP0[/YOUTUBE]



See, what I don't get, is if you read the excerpts from the interview that people are upset about. He rants about his daughter like banging this billionaire black dudes son, and that pisses him off, and then he's all like; "I mean, I?d rather if she was going to f*ck some n*gger, I?d rather have her marry an 8-foot-tall n*gger worth a hundred million dollars! Like a basketball player!".

Maybe intelligent black men terrify him, but many of them basketball types are pretty slick too, he shouldn't underestimate them.


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## Atem (Jul 27, 2015)

If I learned anything from this it's that Hulk Hogan is a lot like my father.

Holy cow he even uses the same "if they had money excuse." Just to make sure was he also drunk when he said this or what was happening?

I am hearing that he was having sex at the time.


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## Deputy Myself (Jul 27, 2015)

soooo gawker starting witchhunts again to protect their own interests?

disgusting


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## Zyrax (Jul 27, 2015)

The Rock isn't Black 
He is Polynesian


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## Seto Kaiba (Jul 27, 2015)

Hogan, you idiot...It's things like that which makes the apology now come off as disingenuous.


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## blueblip (Jul 27, 2015)

Deputy Myself said:


> soooo gawker starting witchhunts again to protect their own interests?
> 
> disgusting


The interesting part? There's a very high possibility Gawker leaked to tape.

They're right in the middle of pitched legal battle with Hogan over defamation. And while just a few weeks back I would have said Gawker wouldn't pull such a stunt, the entire Geithner debacle has convinced me otherwise.


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## Seto Kaiba (Jul 27, 2015)

Evil said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Ka40KovVo[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Hulk Hogan's too blunt, he should have learned from Muhammad Ali.



I wonder what your point is in posting this. Because I'm almost certain it's an incredibly flawed one. Ali is considered one of the greatest boxers around, he was not considered the most educated or agreeable individual however. He got heat during the time he espoused such controversial rhetoric. Some of it coming back to bite him in the ass. So what is your point in posting this?


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## Banhammer (Jul 27, 2015)

NaS said:


> See this is the first interview I heard. Now this video is ok. I can respect him for this.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]f20Z-iGVoP0[/YOUTUBE]



really? Is that it?


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## Hand Banana (Jul 27, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> really? Is that it?



No. I said that's what i thought he was getting flack for at first. this is what he actually said.

"I mean, I?d rather if she was going to fuck some ^ (use bro), I?d rather have her marry an 8-foot-tall ^ (use bro) worth a hundred million dollars! Like a basketball player!".


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## blueblip (Jul 27, 2015)

Isn't the guy she is seeing a billionaire?

Hogan can't do math?


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## Hand Banana (Jul 27, 2015)

Hmm, actually this is what was said.



> Hogan told Clem: 'I don't know if Brooke was fucking the black guy's son... I mean, I don't have double standards.
> 'I mean, I am a racist, to a point, fucking ^ (use bro). But then when it comes to nice people and shit, and whatever.'
> He continued: 'I mean, I'd rather if she was going to fuck some ^ (use bro), I'd rather have her marry an 8-foot-tall ^ (use bro) worth a hundred million dollars! Like a basketball player!
> 'I guess we're all a little racist. Fucking ^ (use bro).'









Brooke Hogan was dating Stack$, real name Yannique Barker, when the recording of her father was made


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## Deputy Myself (Jul 27, 2015)

blueblip said:


> The interesting part? There's a very high possibility Gawker leaked to tape.
> 
> They're right in the middle of pitched legal battle with Hogan over defamation. And while just a few weeks back I would have said Gawker wouldn't pull such a stunt, the entire Geithner debacle has convinced me otherwise.



I wouldn't put it past them, they're a disgusting website.

anyway the thread title is silly. the dude is 61 years old and has made more money than he knows how to spend. His carreer isn't that important to him anymore.


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## Hand Banana (Jul 27, 2015)

Deputy Myself said:


> I wouldn't put it past them, they're a disgusting website.
> 
> anyway the thread title is silly. the dude is 61 years old and has made more money than he knows how to spend. His carreer isn't that important to him anymore.



His career and legacy are important to him that's why he is fighting to save face.


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## EJ (Jul 27, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Hogan, you idiot...It's things like that which makes the apology now come off as disingenuous.



 No one should had taken his apology seriously to begin with. What was in the link?


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## Black Superman (Jul 27, 2015)

> We are all human beings. People who hate blacks and whites together, obviously have never been attracted to a person of another race. That changes everything. I have to admit, I do not like black culture, but if you have a black person with the mindset of Bill Cosby, I feel different.





One of the comments from the youtube link someone  posted.


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## Black Superman (Jul 27, 2015)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RC6jGTgUuE[/youtube]


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jul 27, 2015)

NaS said:


> Hmm, actually this is what was said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Once you go black you never come back .


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## Zyrax (Jul 27, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Once you go black you never come back .


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## EJ (Jul 27, 2015)

How the fuck hasn't Zyrax been banned yet?

Like he doesn't post anything of substance and he's just a general annoyance.


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## Xiammes (Jul 27, 2015)

Flow said:


> How the fuck hasn't Zyrax been banned yet?
> 
> Like he doesn't post anything of substance and he's just a general annoyance.



This might surprise you, but those aren't reasons to ban someone.


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## EJ (Jul 27, 2015)

Right.

 I forgot his incredible trolling skills aren't blatant enough to be detected by just about everyone on this forum.


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## SLB (Jul 27, 2015)

At least make it so he can't make threads. Ignore list takes care of the rest.


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## Saishin (Jul 27, 2015)

Hahahaha America and her racial issues are the best thing of this country,it's so funny


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## Yoona (Jul 27, 2015)

Well Booker finally got him I see 

The thing is I think Vince said it too a while back but no one can do him shit. I'm yet to see how they changed the Axelmania gimmick.


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## EJ (Jul 27, 2015)

Saishin said:


> Hahahaha America and her racial issues are the best thing of this country,it's so funny



I don't mean to do a finger pointing game since America does have a huge racism problem, but aren't you from/reside in Italy?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jul 27, 2015)

Because all black people beat their spouses 100% legit and 100% not racist .


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## EJ (Jul 27, 2015)

Why would you respond seriously to any of his post


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## Zyrax (Jul 27, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Because all black people beat their spouses 100% legit and 100% not racist .


I am just pointing out that a lot of idiots seem to want to have it both ways. 
Its either that The Ghetto Culture doesn't represent Most Black People or that it does and it makes them "More Masculine"


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jul 27, 2015)

Zyrax Pasha said:


> I am just pointing out that a lot of idiots seem to want to have it both ways.
> Its either that The Ghetto Culture doesn't represent Most Black People or that it does and it makes them "More Masculine"



People from one race are not all equal, what huge discovery you made ! Want a cookie or something ?


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## Zyrax (Jul 27, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> People from one race are not all equal, what huge discovery you made ! Want a cookie or something ?


I am mostly talking about African Americans. Most Native Africans find the Ghetto Culture Insulting
I am just sick and tired of people Acting like The Ghetto Culture is a Positive thing that should be admired rather than a Problem that was caused by Segeration and Poverty in the African American Community and should be fixed through Focusing on Positive Role Models for the African American Community


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## Buskuv (Jul 27, 2015)

Flow said:


> How the fuck hasn't Zyrax been banned yet?
> 
> Like he *doesn't post anything of substance and he's just a general annoyance*.



Want us to ban 3/4 of the forum?


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## YrtNes Mai (Jul 27, 2015)

Zyrax Pasha said:


> I am mostly talking about African Americans. Most Native Africans find the Ghetto Culture Insulting
> I am just sick and tired of people Acting like The Ghetto Culture is a Positive thing that should be admired rather than a Problem that was caused by *Segeration and Poverty in the African American Community* and should be fixed through Focusing on Positive Role Models for the African American Community



De-segragation and poverty. There were actually affluent AA communities before de-segragation. After segragation Black people started spending their money away from their own communities, which in turn lost wealth and became poor.


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## Seto Kaiba (Jul 27, 2015)

Why are you people responding to Zyrax? 

Anyway, I find it incredible people are trying to pretend like this is a case of "political correctness" gone haywire. Like this kind of shit would be unacceptable when Hulkamania was going wild in 1985, of course it isn't now. The lengths people are going to in an attempt to defend Hogan are completely absurd. 

I was willing to consider that maybe he could take steps to amend matters with the public, but he seems either ignorant to what he did, or unrepentant. Like seriously, retweeting that was the most moronic thing ever. Does he even understand the magnifying glass on him now?


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## YrtNes Mai (Jul 27, 2015)

Minorities now have some power so racists can't get away with saying what they like now, unlike in the pre-1970s. So when they get punished for it they scream "Political Correctness yada yada".


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## EJ (Jul 27, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Why are you people responding to Zyrax?
> 
> Anyway, I find it incredible people are trying to pretend like this is a case of "political correctness" gone haywire. Like this kind of shit would be unacceptable when Hulkamania was going wild in 1985, of course it isn't now. The lengths people are going to in an attempt to defend Hogan are completely absurd.
> 
> I was willing to consider that maybe he could take steps to amend matters with the public, but he seems either ignorant to what he did, or unrepentant. Like seriously, retweeting that was the most moronic thing ever. Does he even understand the magnifying glass on him now?


What did he retweeet?


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## Seto Kaiba (Jul 27, 2015)

Flow said:


> What did he retweeet?


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## Overwatch (Jul 27, 2015)

scerpers said:


> BRING BACK BENOIT



That would be a challenge.


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## EJ (Jul 27, 2015)

I was just looking at his twitter and I saw that earlier today. The link you posted earlier was deleted.

Said it before and I'll say it again, no one should had taken his apology seriously.


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## Xiammes (Jul 27, 2015)

Overwatch said:


> That would be a challenge.



>The greatest wrestling games will never get a hd port because of Benoit


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## SAFFF (Jul 27, 2015)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RC6jGTgUuE[/youtube]



Hogan lost both his girls to the black D.


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## Evil (Jul 27, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I wonder what your point is in posting this. Because I'm almost certain it's an incredibly flawed one. Ali is considered one of the greatest boxers around, he was not considered the most educated or agreeable individual however. He got heat during the time he espoused such controversial rhetoric. Some of it coming back to bite him in the ass. So what is your point in posting this?



I'm just saying that Hulk's apology would have been better received if he'd said what he said more eloquently like Ali.


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## Lit (Jul 27, 2015)

To be honest I was more obsessed with the Nicki v. Taylor thing than this. Another celebrity that's racist? Oh no...how surprising.


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## Atem (Jul 27, 2015)

Evil said:


> I'm just saying that Hulk's apology would have been better received if he'd said what he said more eloquently like Ali.



Yeah, it would probably would have but people eat something like this up like candy.

If it was anyone else other than Hulk Hogan this wouldn't have been a big deal. It would have just been another old racist white guy. Which is par for the course in America.

Since it's Hulk Hogan and people looked up to him it gets notoriety. Which is why he should have been more delicate about apologizing. 

Childhoods everywhere destroyed.


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## Buskuv (Jul 27, 2015)

So he's retarded.

Do you guys feel good?  Picking on a retarded person?


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## Lit (Jul 27, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> So he's retarded.
> 
> Do you guys feel good?  Picking on a retarded person?



Mental illness isn't an excuse for racism.  

Honestly though, after a while everyone's just gonna forget about this like they did with Justin: 
[YOUTUBE]26sRSdfUPs0[/YOUTUBE]


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## Evil (Jul 27, 2015)

Lit said:


> Mental illness isn't an excuse for racism.
> 
> Honestly though, after a while everyone's just gonna forget about this like they did with Justin:
> [YOUTUBE]26sRSdfUPs0[/YOUTUBE]



To be fair, in the Beeb's case, he was a little kid thinking he was being edgy and funny. It's not like he really thought "Shit, If I kill one more ^ (use bro) I can be the head of the KKK! Wheeee". 

Hogan on the other hand didn't like the idea of his daughter having sex, or marrying a black guy.


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## Huey Freeman (Jul 27, 2015)

Macho Man finally got his revenge!


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## Atem (Jul 27, 2015)

Macho Man >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hulk Hogan.


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## Lit (Jul 27, 2015)

Evil said:


> To be fair, in the Beeb's case, he was a little kid thinking he was being edgy and funny. It's not like he really thought "Shit, If I kill one more ^ (use bro) I can be the head of the KKK! Wheeee".
> 
> Hogan on the other hand didn't like the idea of his daughter having sex, or marrying a black guy.



By the time I was 4 I knew certain people couldn't say the n-word.  Edgy or funny or not, you should still suffer the consequences. Edit: Eh...now that I thought about it a little...I still say no forgiveness. Justin is still a cancer for black people.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jul 27, 2015)

Evil said:


> This is perfect for you then.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb09nhgS-WE[/YOUTUBE]



Not gay enough.


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## Evil (Jul 27, 2015)

MbS said:


> Not gay enough.



Shit I guess I'll have to reach deep into my pocket.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN1trwnxBhU[/YOUTUBE]


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jul 27, 2015)

Evil said:


> Shit I guess I'll have to reach deep into my pocket.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN1trwnxBhU[/YOUTUBE]



You live up to your username.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jul 27, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Why do you use loli as an avatar tho ? Trap ?



To keep a long story under 150 characters; by gay I mean I'm a homosexual female.

I could be specific and say I'm bi but I Haven't really fancied a guy for a long while.

Goodness, I'm rabbiting. I hope that answered your question.


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## Buskuv (Jul 27, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Why do you use loli as an avatar tho ? Trap ?



>stocking
>loli


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## Zaru (Jul 27, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> >stocking
> >loli



[Triggered]

Well technically they were still working at Gainax back then so

[Gainaxed]


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## Whitebeard (Jul 27, 2015)

So Hulk Hogan is a dumbass

Who would've thought...


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## Hand Banana (Jul 27, 2015)

Evil said:


> Shit I guess I'll have to reach deep into my pocket.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN1trwnxBhU[/YOUTUBE]



Man wtf did I just watch?


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## Saishin (Jul 27, 2015)

Flow said:


> I don't mean to do a finger pointing game since America does have a huge racism problem, but aren't you from/reside in Italy?


Indeed and naturally racism is present in every country including Italy but from what I can perceived (but I may be wrong since I'm don't know fully the real situation of racism in Italy) being here is that racism in Italy if we want to do a comparison with the US is a little less discriminating,you don't see cops stop or even shoot to blacks or immigrants or striking episodes of discriminations,sure banana has been thrown to a black minister but these are very rare episodes,you know Italians don't have a strong sense of political correctness like in the anglosaxon nations,Italians can be very raw in express their opinion especially if are opinion related to such delicate issues like racism and if then these issues involve people with an extreme behaviour like far right people.
That being said the situation now got quite worse,the refugee crisis and the economic crisis have increased the social tensions,a part of Italians are becoming more racists or feed more discriminating feelings toward the immigrants but you find this things everywhere in Europe especially in the countries that are under a heavy crisis,when there is an economic crisis and people lose their jobs to vent their anger they use the immigrant as scapegoat,unfortunately is always been like that and the nationalist parties take advantage of that to increase their support.


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## EJ (Jul 27, 2015)

Saishin said:


> Indeed and naturally racism is present in every country including Italy but from what I can perceived (but I may be wrong since I'm don't know fully the real situation of racism in Italy) being here is that racism in Italy if we want to do a comparison with the US is a little less discriminating,you don't see cops stop or even shoot to blacks or immigrants or striking episodes of discriminations,sure banana has been thrown to a black minister but these are very rare episodes,you know Italians don't have a strong sense of political correctness like in the anglosaxon nations,Italians can be very raw in express their opinion especially if are opinion related to such delicate issues like racism.
> That being said the situation now got quite worse,the refugee crisis and the economic crisis have increased the social tensions,a part of Italians are becoming more racists or feed more discriminating feelings toward the immigrants but you find this things everywhere in Europe especially in the countries that are under a heavy crisis,when there is an economic crisis and people lose their jobs to vent their anger they use the immigrant as scapegoat,unfortunately is always been like that.



I just rather would be in America and deal with it's racism as opposed to Italy's. I used to want to live there one day and was dissapointed hearing how they treat not just black foreigners but black Italians as well.


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## Saishin (Jul 27, 2015)

Flow said:


> I just rather would be in America and deal with it's racism as opposed to Italy's. I used to want to live there one day and was dissapointed hearing how they treat not just black foreigners but black Italians as well.


Ok you want to stay in America,it's fine,America is a nation full of opportunities,you are lucky to be there,I don't see the problem,everyone is free to do everything.For example I'd rather be in Italy and deal with racism here because I'm sure and it is a fact most of the Italians are not racists as you can think.

Anyway I think the racial problem in America is not a big deal,it's a country which was founded by immigrants so for an American be racist is non sense imo,how can you be racist in a country that was born with a multi-ethnic-cultural society? that's why I think racism in America will be never a big problem not like in Europe or I'm wrong?


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## EJ (Jul 27, 2015)

Saishin said:


> Ok you want to stay in America,it's fine,America is a nation full of opportunities,you are lucky to be there,I don't see the problem,everyone is free to do everything.For example I'd rather be in Italy and deal with racism here because I'm sure and it is a fact most of the Italians are not racists as you can think.
> 
> Anyway I think the racial problem in America is not a big deal,it's a country which was founded by immigrants so for an American be racist is non sense imo,how can you be racist in a country that was born with a multi-ethnic-cultural society? that's why I think racism in America will be never a big problem not like in Europe or I'm wrong?



Don't know bro. I'm basing what I know off what I've read through different parts of the internet as funny as it may sound but when I hear multiple people talking about the racism in your guys country, and even Italians themselves stating that blacks should look more towards visiting and not staying made me re-think going there.







> There has been a concern that racism and xenophobia in Italy has increased in the 21st century. In particular, actions by the Lega Nord have been criticized as xenophobic or racist by several sources.[27][28][29][30][31] Italians protested the murder of Burkina Faso native, Abdul Salam Guibre, along with racism in Italy on 20 September 2008.[32] L'Osservatore Romano, the semi-official newspaper for the Holy See, indicated that racism played an important role in the riot in Rosarno.[33] According to a Eurobarometer study, Italians had the third lowest level of "comfort with person of Gypsy origin as neighbour", after Austrians and Czechs.[34][35]
> 
> Contemporary Italian football fans, of lower-league and top-flight teams, have been noted by foreign media for racist behaviour.[36]
> 
> ...




Citizens...ok, but politicians making racist remarks?


----------



## Мoon (Jul 27, 2015)

Zyrax Pasha said:


> I am mostly talking about African Americans. Most Native Africans find the Ghetto Culture Insulting
> I am just sick and tired of people Acting like The Ghetto Culture is a Positive thing that should be admired rather than a Problem that was caused by Segeration and Poverty in the African American Community and should be fixed through Focusing on Positive Role Models for the African American Community


We had those. Martin Luther King Jr., and Malcolm X were perfect examples for the African American community through the harshest waves of racism. Guess what happened to them.

I know you're trolling. but just in case you aren't.


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## Hand Banana (Jul 27, 2015)

Мoon said:


> We had those. Martin Luther King Jr., and Malcolm X were perfect examples for the African American community through the harshest waves of racism. Guess what happened to them.
> 
> I know you're trolling. but just in case you aren't.



They were assassinated.


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## Мoon (Jul 27, 2015)

NaS said:


> They were assassinated.



Exactly. Meaning, whatever society African Americans have erected in this day and age, is respectively the racist white Americans of the 1960's fault. This is possibly why foreigners laugh at this country, and , by Zyrax's posts, why "native americans" are disgusted by most black people today. Not that I care what Native Americans have to say, with their casinos fueled by greed and endless reparation money , not to mention their own reservations, but I'll leave it at that.


----------



## DreamingNoriko (Jul 27, 2015)

MbS said:


> The very fact that only certain people can say certain words is racist in of itself.



I wouldn't necessarily say that. I know many people who hear anyone, and I mean anyone, use that word and they lose their cool because of how derogatory the n-word it is. There's nothing good that comes from it, but we shouldn't blame a whole section of people just because a select few of the whole do use it. It should never be used, with very minimal exceptions. 

One being the choice of reporters when quoting people who use it, because they don't want that person looking better by censoring their statement. (So saying the full n-word when quoting Hulk Hogans instead of censoring it, because censoring Hogans statement could make him look better than what his true statement fully entails.)


----------



## Seiji (Jul 27, 2015)

Oh shit

Well serves him right

Never liked Hulk anyway


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Jul 28, 2015)

He was a douche with his behind the scenes politics of wrestling and that tape recording of him and his son Nick mocking the guy Nick got into an accident with. This just adds to him being terrible.


----------



## Gino (Jul 28, 2015)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[YOUTUBE]guG9cVs3ms4[/YOUTUBE]
When it comes crashing down and it hurts inside.


----------



## Pilaf (Jul 28, 2015)

Josh James The only thing anyone seems to be talking about is Hulk Hogan supposedly being racist. It wasn't until I watched a specific youtube video that I realized that the only reason anyone knows this is because someone filmed Hogan against his permission eight years ago, and tried to release the tape to prove some kind of point against the guy.

 It's kinda nasty and stupid, what Hogan said, but violating someone else's privacy is also kinda nasty and stupid, and sadly the marauding social justice warriors of the world somehow feel these actions are justified. I guess it's all fine and good if you catch someone doing something legitimately bad (using a word, by the way, probably doesn't count as one of the worst things people can do in the real world), but when does the gross violation of privacy end?


----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Jul 28, 2015)

People just want to destroy him huh?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 28, 2015)

Pilaf said:


> Josh James The only thing anyone seems to be talking about is Hulk Hogan supposedly being racist. It wasn't until I watched a specific youtube video that I realized that the only reason anyone knows this is because someone filmed Hogan against his permission eight years ago, and tried to release the tape to prove some kind of point against the guy.
> 
> It's kinda nasty and stupid, what Hogan said, but violating someone else's privacy is also kinda nasty and stupid, and sadly the marauding social justice warriors of the world somehow feel these actions are justified. I guess it's all fine and good if you catch someone doing something legitimately bad (using a word, by the way, probably doesn't count as one of the worst things people can do in the real world), but when does the gross violation of privacy end?





Vino said:


> People just want to destroy him huh?



He's a famous guy, that automatically has a target on his back whether he deserves it or not. The guy surrounded himself by individuals of ill-repute. As a person in his position, he was careless. The guy himself was already know to be quite a douche in general, this was going to happen. His supposed "friend" secretly recorded him, and now has torn down his image. Although, at the end of the day such leaks do reveal his true character. Yeah, his privacy was invaded, that's a bad thing and about the only thing that can be said in his defense. 

People let their nostalgia over him get too much in the way. He was being malicious, that kind of dripping racism would have killed Hulkamania in the 80s, no less now. It brings into question everything about him, legitimately so. How long has he had these views, and if he still has them. It was 8 years ago, but it was him post the prime of his career, and as a 53 year old man. You do not let go of ingrained prejudices at such an age overnight. This isn't a matter of "marauding social justice warriors" and it's stupid to try and paint it as such.


----------



## Black Superman (Jul 28, 2015)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0-K_uDD1wQ[/youtube]

"An  uppity halfbreed n*gger undeserving of his success. "

"An untalented, no good sh*t talking sambo."

"I never liked having to wrestle with anyone who wasn't white."

There's no defending the guy after this. Holy shit, the things he said about the Rock. Fuck this guy.

Macho Man >>>>>  Hogan


----------



## Saishin (Jul 28, 2015)

Flow said:


> Don't know bro. I'm basing what I know off what I've read through different parts of the internet as funny as it may sound but when I hear multiple people talking about the racism in your guys country, and even Italians themselves stating that blacks should look more towards visiting and not staying made me re-think going there.


Much probably most of them are those Italians that are against the illegals for the most and fed up of the refugee crisis,well it's quite understandable but what can you do? unfortunately there will be always people like that



> Citizens...ok, but politicians making racist remarks?



Yeah but most of them are far right,anti immigrant politicians,no surprise that they use very harsh words toward foreigners,those ignorants have been always like that.


----------



## Hand Banana (Jul 28, 2015)

Saishin's logic 274: If one person says something, it represents an entire ethnicity.


----------



## Yagura (Jul 28, 2015)

YrtNes Mai said:


> Minorities now have some power so racists can't get away with saying what they like now, unlike in the pre-1970s. So when they get punished for it they scream "Political Correctness yada yada".



It's mostly just other white people who go after racists.


----------



## Raiden (Jul 28, 2015)

WWE is a no drama company now. They disciplined him after what would have been a shitload of complaints if someone make an issue out of his comments. And he should have been fired, especially after the halfbred comment.


----------



## afrosheen6565 (Jul 28, 2015)

Wow. This is terrible. Give man his job back.


----------



## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Jul 29, 2015)

Мoon said:


> Exactly. Meaning, whatever society African Americans have erected in this day and age, is respectively the racist white Americans of the 1960's fault. This is possibly why foreigners laugh at this country, and , by Zyrax's posts, why "native americans" are disgusted by most black people today. Not that I care what Native Americans have to say, with their casinos fueled by greed and endless reparation money , not to mention their own reservations, but I'll leave it at that.



It's the fault of the white ancestors that african american society today is in a rut apparently, but other non-whites can come in America and be successful in it in less than a decade all entirely on their own...?

Like, how does that even work? How is it that the african american community is a weird factor compared to all other races? Hell, it's not even just races, but_ ethnic groups_ as well. The Nigerian-American communities are not as bad as the general african american communities. the 1960s is kind of a long time too, man. There's just gotta be something wrong with the african american community in itself for it to stay in shambles for so long.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 29, 2015)

ShiggyDiggyDoo said:


> It's the fault of the white ancestors that african american society today is in a rut apparently, but other non-whites can come in America and be successful in it in less than a decade all entirely on their own...?



Jesus fuck, you are stupid. History of blacks in America has been followed by one constant string of targeted oppression after another. It is only in the 1960s, less than a lifetime ago, did this become illegal on paper. Jim Crow in particular was specifically meant to stifle and do long-term damage to the economic progress of African-Americans, and that went on for over a century. You entrap people into a cycle of poverty, crime, and poor education and they have children that are too trapped in this cycle. Anyone with some kind of education knows this basic fact. 

Do you know why Jim Crow was even a thing to begin with? It was in response to fears of the rapid economic progress former slaves and other blacks had begun to make across the country. They even began to not only create successful predominantly African-American communities, began to amass enough wealth to become neighbors in many white suburbs of the time. Which of course, flew in the face of the presumed racial hierarchy in the south in particular. Hence you have Jim Crow, which ultimately turned these neighborhoods into many of the ghettos we know of today, and set back the progress African-Americans made for a long time, by a significant margin. A margin of which blacks in America have made progress on in closing. 



> Like, how does that even work? How is it that the african american community is a weird factor compared to all other races? Hell, it's not even just races, but_ ethnic groups_ as well. The Nigerian-American communities are not as bad as the general african american communities. the 1960s is kind of a long time too, man. There's just gotta be something wrong with the african american community in itself for it to stay in shambles for so long.



Like I said, you're a complete fucking idiot. 1960s was when many of our parents were born. That is not a long time ago at all. You stupidly think that the only factors that apply are ones that were around when you became aware of the matter. Like so many ignorant people before you.

You are seriously asking why people born into a cycle of poverty, poor education, and crime struggle to get out of it after over a century of intentional efforts to keep them there? Both on a legislative and systemic level? Are you retarded?


----------



## Muah (Jul 29, 2015)

A that was left of his career is a sex tape  and people who remember the 80s


----------



## blueblip (Jul 29, 2015)

ShiggyDiggyDoo said:


> It's the fault of the white ancestors that african american society today is in a rut apparently, but other non-whites can come in America and be successful in it in less than a decade all entirely on their own...?
> 
> Like, how does that even work? How is it that the african american community is a weird factor compared to all other races? Hell, it's not even just races, but_ ethnic groups_ as well. The Nigerian-American communities are not as bad as the general african american communities. the 1960s is kind of a long time too, man. There's just gotta be something wrong with the african american community in itself for it to stay in shambles for so long.


How about we try an experiment.

You start living in the type of conditions blacks had to live in prior to the Civil Rights movement. As in, you are subject to and have to abide by the same laws that were in place (eg. Jim Crow Laws). Don't forget this will also include having to live as a secons class citizen. You have to attend you own school, live separately in your own neighbourhood, face discrimination, and should I feel like it, I can have you and/or your family lynched with little to know fear of legal repurcussions.

The goal here is to see if you or your descendents can lift themselves out of poverty in 50 years. Interested?


----------



## EJ (Jul 29, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Jesus fuck, you are stupid. History of blacks in America has been followed by one constant string of targeted oppression after another. It is only in the 1960s, less than a lifetime ago, did this become illegal on paper. Jim Crow in particular was specifically meant to stifle and do long-term damage to the economic progress of African-Americans, and that went on for over a century. You entrap people into a cycle of poverty, crime, and poor education and they have children that are too trapped in this cycle. Anyone with some kind of education knows this basic fact.
> 
> Do you know why Jim Crow was even a thing to begin with? It was in response to fears of the rapid economic progress former slaves and other blacks had begun to make across the country. They even began to not only create successful predominantly African-American communities, began to amass enough wealth to become neighbors in many white suburbs of the time. Which of course, flew in the face of the presumed racial hierarchy in the south in particular. Hence you have Jim Crow, which ultimately turned these neighborhoods into many of the ghettos we know of today, and set back the progress African-Americans made for a long time, by a significant margin. A margin of which blacks in America have made progress on in closing.
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure ShiggyDiggyDoo is black. I at least think he is, I think I've seen him mention it before. I don't fault him for not knowing everything about his history in the US if he is but it's real unfortunate that some black people fall into this line of thinking since they are too lazy to pick up a book.


EDIT:

Tbh, I don't know if he is or not. Besides the point. It's still unfortunate a lot of people don't have this way of thinking...from phrases like

"The Irish had it bad too"

"You know slavery happened a long time ago, right?"


----------



## afrosheen6565 (Jul 29, 2015)

Flow said:


> I'm pretty sure ShiggyDiggyDoo is black. I at least think he is, I think I've seen him mention it before. *I don't fault him for not knowing everything about his history in the US if he is but it's real unfortunate that some black people fall into this line of thinking since they are too lazy to pick up a book.*
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...



 Got respect for you boss, but I can't even with this sentence man

Also, I'm black. Very black. Black enough to get unnecessarily followed in stores and stopped on the street by would-be authority figures. And it sucks and all --- but there are more problems intrinsic to black society at this point than extrinsic to it. And please don't start with the "everything stems from racism/slavery" angle. Please don't do it because it helps nobody.  And I am quite read on the issues at hand. 

Hurts me to see my people suffer. But I don't have much affection for those explanations that for that suffering that fail to account for the agency of people living today.


----------



## EJ (Jul 29, 2015)

Ok, what exactly are you trying to point at?

I'm sort of betting you're nit-picking one of my statements in my post and building and trying to build an entire argument out of it.


----------



## afrosheen6565 (Jul 29, 2015)

Flow said:


> Ok, what exactly are you trying to point at?
> 
> I'm sort of betting you're nit-picking one of my statements in my post and building and trying to build an entire argument out of it.



No man, I'm not arguing. This is one of those where you have to see what is wrong with your statement or position by yourself. If you don't feel like it, that's okay too.


----------



## EJ (Jul 29, 2015)

afrosheen6565 said:


> No man, I'm not arguing. This is one of those where you have to see what is wrong with your statement or position by yourself. If you don't feel like it, that's okay too.



Well you're trying to say that I've said something wrong. I'm asking you to go into detail.



> but there are more problems intrinsic to black society at this point than extrinsic to it.



Seeing as I've said multiple issues with black communities within the United Stated through out my time of posting in the cafe I seriously do have to ask, what are you trying to point at in my statement?

It's like you read that single post alone and based your opinion through your own narrow-minded perception on this matter.


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## Seto Kaiba (Jul 29, 2015)

He's trolling, dude.


----------



## EJ (Jul 29, 2015)

Oh.

Congrats to him I guess.


----------



## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Jul 29, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Jesus fuck, you are stupid. History of blacks in America has been followed by one constant string of targeted oppression after another. It is only in the 1960s, less than a lifetime ago, did this become illegal on paper. Jim Crow in particular was specifically meant to stifle and do long-term damage to the economic progress of African-Americans, and that went on for over a century. You entrap people into a cycle of poverty, crime, and poor education and they have children that are too trapped in this cycle. Anyone with some kind of education knows this basic fact.
> 
> Do you know why Jim Crow was even a thing to begin with? It was in response to fears of the rapid economic progress former slaves and other blacks had begun to make across the country. They even began to not only create successful predominantly African-American communities, began to amass enough wealth to become neighbors in many white suburbs of the time. Which of course, flew in the face of the presumed racial hierarchy in the south in particular. Hence you have Jim Crow, which ultimately turned these neighborhoods into many of the ghettos we know of today, and set back the progress African-Americans made for a long time, by a significant margin. A margin of which blacks in America have made progress on in closing.
> 
> ...



First off, why do you guys always have to insult a dude's intelligence whenever you don't agree with what they're saying? 

Secondly I never said anything about there NOT being oppression upon blacks. What I'm saying is that it seems silly to me that the idea that the oppression of the past has resulted in the african-american communities being in such poor shape compared to every other community in America. Plenty of other people have been oppressed and they're doing fine.

You don't need to lecture me about Jim Crow and all that other stuff. I know what went down, thank you very much.

Shit like this is honestly why little progress will ever be made in Black America. As long as people point their fingers at something else being the problem, no progress will be made. Blame, blame, blame but never even attempt to bring a damn solution.

There* was* an effort to keep the african americans down, but that effort has dramatically decreased now. Companies will intentionally hire blacks over whites, Universities will favor blacks over whites. Companies now have a diversity quota that they much reach. That's because of affirmative action which was made to destroy the discrimination that blacks could face. 

Truth of the matter is that nobody wants to go into the deep end of this shit and face the Cthulhu that's hiding in the darkness. As long as everyone refuses to go into the deep end, the black community will continue to be in a bad shape for a longer time.


----------



## Black Superman (Jul 29, 2015)

ShiggyDiggyDoo said:


> First off, why do you guys always have to insult a dude's intelligence whenever you don't agree with what they're saying?
> 
> Secondly I never said anything about there NOT being oppression upon blacks. What I'm saying is that it seems silly to me that the idea that the oppression of the past has resulted in the african-american communities being in such poor shape compared to every other community in America. Plenty of other people have been oppressed and they're doing fine.
> 
> ...



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdT8edPYQ7E[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 29, 2015)

ShiggyDiggyDoo said:


> First off, why do you guys always have to insult a dude's intelligence whenever you don't agree with what they're saying?



It's not the disagreement, it's the blatant ignorance and a clear lack of effort to rectify it. 



> Secondly I never said anything about there NOT being oppression upon blacks. What I'm saying is that it seems silly to me that the idea that the oppression of the past has resulted in the african-american communities being in such poor shape compared to every other community in America. Plenty of other people have been oppressed and they're doing fine.



That's what makes you an idiot. 

The actions of the past always have an effect on the future. This is true for just about anything. It's always important to know what effects the past have on the present in order to provide a sufficient explanation, and if necessary, solutions on present matters leading to the future. 

Your statement only shows that you have made no effort and have no desire to actually learn history, and actually learn why present circumstances are the way they are. You again, stupidly think that matters as you became aware of them provide all the explanation there is needed. That any factors before you became aware of it have no application. 



> You don't need to lecture me about Jim Crow and all that other stuff. I know what went down, thank you very much.



No you don't. 



> Shit like this is honestly why little progress will ever be made in Black America. As long as people point their fingers at something else being the problem, no progress will be made. Blame, blame, blame but never even attempt to bring a damn solution



See, like I said. You're an idiot. They've made significant progress despite the constant attempts to stifle such. If blacks in America did not, they'd still be slaves or sharecroppers in the rural south. They definitely would not have had a successful campaign to gain equal rights. Which I will remind you, only occurred less than a lifetime ago. 

It's not about blaming, but about recognizing how past actions shaped current circumstances. Something which understanding is clearly beyond your grasp. 



> There* was* an effort to keep the african americans down, but that effort has dramatically decreased now. Companies will intentionally hire blacks over whites, Universities will favor blacks over whites. Companies now have a diversity quota that they much reach. That's because of affirmative action which was made to destroy the discrimination that blacks could face.



You really like to talk out of your ass, don't you? 

No, it's been a well-documented fact that those with black or foreign-sounding names are less favored than those with conventionally "white" names. Furthermore that those that "sounded" black being passed over in favor of those that "sounded" white. Just as well, it's a long-standing systemic trend that white applicants are favored over applicants of nearly every other race. 

Affirmative action, for your ignorant ass, favors white females more than any other group, btw. 



> Truth of the matter is that nobody wants to go into the deep end of this shit and face the Cthulhu that's hiding in the darkness. As long as everyone refuses to go into the deep end, the black community will continue to be in a bad shape for a longer time.



You don't even know the truth of the matter. You've made no effort, you're just another uneducated moron that came with scant understanding of the issue and thinks he sees the entire picture.

Systemic slavery for centuries in this country, followed by over 100 years of active and overt oppression, which only legally ended little over 50 years ago is a short time in the expanse of society as a whole. It's not even a long time in general, like I said, many of our parents were already around when desegregation was being undone. My grandparents as many others in particular were already grown adults.


----------



## Black Superman (Jul 29, 2015)

Their superiority complex is tied to how poorly blacks are doing in this country, not through their own achievements. You really think they're going to sit around and allow the black community as a whole to get on track to surpass them? Even if black people got it together overnight, they'd invent a new system to further disenfranchise black people. White people are losing their minds over 8 years of Obama and he's not even what you'd call a black president , you really think these same people, middle america "real america" are comfortable with competing with black people for access to  jobs and resources? Unless we address the saboteurs we'll never make any real progress in this country.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 29, 2015)

"black" names vs. "white" names and employer callbacks

 More recent study on African-American discrimination in the job market. 

 on affirmative action


----------



## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Jul 29, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It's not the disagreement, it's the blatant ignorance and a clear lack of effort to rectify it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, this is all just some fucking bullshit. How can you even fucking believe this shit? How can you believe that the reason the black community is fucked up is because of something that happened so long ago? Okay, I know that the past CAN affect shit, that's true, but slavery? that ended MANY generations ago. Jim Crow ended decades ago. I can fuck a white woman without being lynched. I can talk back to a white man without being lynched. That shit doesn't fucking happen anymore. The tulsa riots were horrible but it's highly unlikely that something like that will happen again. It's MORE likely that some black community will riot over the death of some rotten thug.

Goddamn, there are people that come from 3rd world countries where they've been oppressed that come over to a 1st world country that are able to live a much better life than they had in their own country just within a couple of years. You really expect me to believe this horse shit? I've got a great grand uncle of my own who seriously illiterate who has lived in the Jim Crow era, yet he's now living in a nice house, comfortably living out the rest of his days with his retirement money.

You know, if it's so bad, then why not leave? Go to Canada? Go to Mexico? these apparent deplorable conditions, why doesn't the black community leave? Jews have been leaving Europe IMMEDIATELY because of the muslim hordes entering the place. Why don't the blacks just leave to go to another country if it's so bad? That's what everybody else does.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 29, 2015)

ShiggyDiggyDoo said:


> No, this is all just some fucking bullshit. How can you even fucking believe this shit? How can you believe that the reason the black community is fucked up is because of something that happened so long ago?



Because events of the past always shape future circumstances. 

That and actually knowing history helps. I gave you a pretty detailed backstory, and all you have is denial. I think it's a clear indicator you lack an argument to make here.



> Okay, I know that the past CAN affect shit, that's true, but slavery? that ended MANY generations ago. Jim Crow ended decades ago. I can fuck a white woman without being lynched. I can talk back to a white man without being lynched. That shit doesn't fucking happen anymore. The tulsa riots were horrible but it's highly unlikely that something like that will happen again. It's MORE likely that some black community will riot over the death of some rotten thug.



The past, especially such a long-term expanse which slavery merely was the start of will have long-term effects. This is a simple truth. Slavery ended 150 years ago, but was immediately followed after by another set of oppressive measures which lasted over a century. 50 years ago is not at all long...hell in the expanse of society as a whole, a century isn't. Especially not for such an overarching matter as this and those related, such as race relations. You only display your idiocy in your inability to grasp that.

You cannot by law be prohibited, but the attitudes which brought forth such laws do not die easily, nor do the economic and social ramifications of those laws. Since you seem so slow to understand, it's the same way a president's policies can affect matters 20 or 30 years down the road. A long-term social project, for better or worse, will have long-term social and economic consequences. This is a simple fact you need to learn to understand.

You don't know anything about Jim Crow, because all you are doing in response to it is denying it. Yet you clearly don't have any knowledge on the matter, alternatively. 



> Goddamn, there are people that come from 3rd world countries where they've been oppressed that come over to a 1st world country that are able to live a much better life than they had in their own country just within a couple of years.



What did I just say about people born into a cycle of poverty, and the difficulties escaping such cycles? You are comparing apples and oranges here. What's even more moronic, is again comparing it to matters as you've become aware of them. An immigrant that just came here is introduced to social circumstances as they currently exist. A family of poverty has become party of the ongoing economic and social cycle as it has existed through the ages. 

What's even more ignorant about your assertion is that it is usually the upper crust of these nations that we receive here on top of that. They are able to migrate in a way most others that are poor from those countries are not. Most poor in those countries all the same entrapped in cycles of poverty themselves. 



> You really expect me to believe this horse shit? I've got a great grand uncle of my own who seriously illiterate who has lived in the Jim Crow era, yet he's now living in a nice house, comfortably living out the rest of his days with his retirement money.



You're one who thinks his anecdotes applies to the general situation, so no I don't expect anything from you. Most people don't escape the income class they are born in, this is a fact. Poor, middle-class, or wealthy. When you have an entire group of people kept down in a cycle it becomes incredibly difficult to get out of it. Especially when more of that society's history was about keeping them there. 

Your question just betrays your ignorance. Like I said, you have made no attempt or have no interest in learning anything. You're entirely self-involved. 



> You know, if it's so bad, then why not leave? Go to Canada? Go to Mexico? these apparent deplorable conditions, why doesn't the black community leave?



You are pretending like there is and has been no effort on blacks at large to improve their situations when there has been very notable progress in doing so. Yet it is not an immediate matter that you stupidly think it is. American society has been oppressive to them throughout most of its history, it is only very recently did this change. 

You're asking yet another question which betrays your ignorance on top of that. 



> Jews have been leaving Europe IMMEDIATELY because of the muslim hordes entering the place. Why don't the blacks just leave to go to another country if it's so bad? That's what everybody else does.



Holy shit, you are dumb.


----------



## baconbits (Jul 29, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Because events of the past always shape future circumstances.
> 
> That and actually knowing history helps.



I think you're going too far and the both of you are going to extremes.  That's the natural course of debate but now you're both off-base.



ShiggyDiggyDoo said:


> No, this is all just some fucking bullshit. How can you even fucking believe this shit? How can you believe that the reason the black community is fucked up is because of something that happened so long ago? Okay, I know that the past CAN affect shit, that's true, but slavery?



Your argument is contradictory.  If the past can still "affect shit" then it does still matter today.



Seto Kaiba said:


> 50 years ago is not at all long...hell in the expanse of society as a whole, a century isn't. Especially not for such an overarching matter as this and those related, such as race relations. You only display your idiocy in your inability to grasp that.



You're exaggerating.  A century is a very long time.  A black man today might have a culture affected by slavery but that man himself is not subject to the limitations of Jim Crow or slavery.  Those that attribute the majority of the issues in black culture to slavery or Jim Crow are simply blind to the real issues affecting black America.

For example one of the largest problems in the black community are single mothers raising children in poverty.  In a general sense that's not caused by white men, its not related to slavery or Jim Crow and has nothing to do with society at large.  That's essentially black people abusing other blacks.

If we could eliminate that one issue you'd see black culture as a whole rise.  And again, that issue literally has nothing to do with anyone outside of the culture itself.  You overstate your case when you ignore huge issues like these.



ShiggyDiggyDoo said:


> I've got a great grand uncle of my own who seriously illiterate who has lived in the Jim Crow era, yet he's now living in a nice house, comfortably living out the rest of his days with his retirement money.



That's fine and admirable.  That doesn't mean that slavery and Jim Crow didn't affect him personally.  He's done well but his economic outlook was probably affected by the discrimination he suffered throughout his life.  He rose above it, tho and I think that's what you and I would like to suggest the rest of black society do.  I think its possible for many to do.



Seto Kaiba said:


> What did I just say about people born into a cycle of poverty, and the difficulties escaping such cycles?



By that logic you'll have excuses for black culture in the year 3,000.  At some point we have to have higher expectations.  This reminds me of the quote "the soft bigotry of low expectations".  On the left we have people saying essentially "don't expect much from blacks, they've been oppressed".  And on the right "don't expect much from blacks, they just make excuses and claim 'racism' anytime things go south".  Neither side helps much at all.



ShiggyDiggyDoo said:


> You know, if it's so bad, then why not leave? Go to Canada? Go to Mexico? these apparent deplorable conditions, why doesn't the black community leave? Jews have been leaving Europe IMMEDIATELY because of the muslim hordes entering the place. Why don't the blacks just leave to go to another country if it's so bad? That's what everybody else does.



Its hard to leave a country.  Most people will not do that, so they don't even consider that as an option.  Its unrealistic to even consider that as an option for most people of any group.

Second, Jews leaving Europe do so with significantly more personal wealth than African-Americans in the south migrating elsewhere.  Even if blacks wanted to leave many just cannot.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 29, 2015)

baconbits said:


> I think you're going too far and the both of you are going to extremes.  That's the natural course of debate but now you're both off-base.



He's a self-involved jackass, I don't care about getting his respect or showing him any. He came in here with extremely flawed notions and clearly had no desire to actually inform himself. He's just another kid that sees a situation and thinks as far as he can see it is as far as it goes. 



> You're exaggerating.  A century is a very long time.  A black man today might have a culture affected by slavery but that man himself is not subject to the limitations of Jim Crow or slavery.  Those that attribute the majority of the issues in black culture to slavery or Jim Crow are simply blind to the real issues affecting black America.



No, it's not. Particularly not when right after that century, a set of other oppressive laws were put into place to keep them as second-class citizens. A black citizen today not only has a culture affected by slavery and Jim Crow, but an entire social and economic climate too. The past plays an enormous role in how these present circumstances are shaped, that's not something to be disputed. Opportunities are more available than ever, many have seized it, but just as I in relation to my own people don't confuse my successes as being a simple matter, neither should you in relation to your own. Where I came from not all the people were black but were entrapped in a cycle of poverty nonetheless, brought about by circumstances over a century in the making. I recognize that, I recognize my fortune in getting out of it, and the exceptional case in that.



> For example one of the largest problems in the black community are single mothers raising children in poverty.  In a general sense that's not caused by white men, its not related to slavery or Jim Crow and has nothing to do with society at large.  That's essentially black people abusing other blacks.



Why are there so many single mothers in poverty? See, you are just taking a matter but not asking the questions. A large number of black fathers are dead or incarcerated. Which begs the question what are they dead over, or incarcerated for. Many due to a number of criminal activities, most notably drug charges. Drugs and crime having a well-established link to poverty, and then you have to ask why are many of those people impoverished and the truth is that they are born into it, and it is the only way they know, or are told in how to escape that cycle of poverty. 

Then there are genuine scumbags who just wanna get around. Then there are those that simply don't know how to be fathers because they never had such a figure to teach them. It's all cyclical, ultimately. 

It's not about blaming white people, I just told the other guy this. It's about understanding the root of the problem so you can address it in its present form. If you're not going to bother to trace back on its history and how that leads into the present you are never going to find a solution that addresses the matter.

It's almost analogous to the number of poor white moms that exist in the rural south, especially near the Appalachian mountains. It's a complex matter. Yet a big root of it is the poverty itself, and it's important to understand the history that led to that current situation and cycle of poverty. 



> If we could eliminate that one issue you'd see black culture as a whole rise.  And again, that issue literally has nothing to do with anyone outside of the culture itself.  You overstate your case when you ignore huge issues like these.



Refer to previous response. You give a simplistic answer to a complex and long-standing problem. I would expect you to know, that an absent father in black homes is an issue that goes further back then you think it is. Like, making a relationship to the slavery days, the concept of the black family was consistently undermined, with members constantly torn from another to be sold elsewhere. Then after emancipation, there was recovery, there was a building up again of the black family and the state of blacks in America in general. This was met with fierce defensiveseness of a racist society that did not want to acknowledge them as equals. The direct aim was to drive them into poverty, and long-term economic damage. This is again not something for dispute. Do not confuse this as blaming white people, this recognizing the effects of a very clear and concentrated effort in our country's history to keep a certain group as second-class citizens. 

When you drive a community to poverty, then crime and drugs come knocking, and those do tear a family apart. 



> By that logic you'll have excuses for black culture in the year 3,000.  At some point we have to have higher expectations.  This reminds me of the quote "the soft bigotry of low expectations".  On the left we have people saying essentially "don't expect much from blacks, they've been oppressed".  And on the right "don't expect much from blacks, they just make excuses and claim 'racism' anytime things go south".  Neither side helps much at all.



Don't fucking strawman me, bacon. Especially when I stated blacks in America are managing to make progress despite what this country has thrown at them in particular. It's not about lowered expectations, the expectations remain the same. The route to meet them however have to be different in respect to their own unique situations. You can't expect a contestant to make it to the finish line as fast as another when they have to deal with repeated efforts to cut them off at the knees.


----------



## Lit (Jul 29, 2015)

ShiggyDiggyDoo said:


> No, this is all just some fucking bullshit. How can you even fucking believe this shit? How can you believe that the reason the black community is fucked up is because of something that happened so long ago? Okay, I know that the past CAN affect shit, that's true, but slavery? that ended MANY generations ago. Jim Crow ended decades ago. I can fuck a white woman without being lynched. I can talk back to a white man without being lynched. That shit doesn't fucking happen anymore. The tulsa riots were horrible but it's highly unlikely that something like that will happen again. It's MORE likely that some black community will riot over the death of some rotten thug.
> 
> Goddamn, there are people that come from 3rd world countries where they've been oppressed that come over to a 1st world country that are able to live a much better life than they had in their own country just within a couple of years. You really expect me to believe this horse shit? I've got a great grand uncle of my own who seriously illiterate who has lived in the Jim Crow era, yet he's now living in a nice house, comfortably living out the rest of his days with his retirement money.
> 
> You know, if it's so bad, then why not leave? Go to Canada? Go to Mexico? these apparent deplorable conditions, why doesn't the black community leave? Jews have been leaving Europe IMMEDIATELY because of the muslim hordes entering the place. Why don't the blacks just leave to go to another country if it's so bad? That's what everybody else does.



Because to you, after forcing Africans to live in an imperialistic country only to be forced into labor for over 400 years gives them no right to call America their own country. It's people like you who don't realize that if it weren't for blacks and native Americans, there would _be_ no America.  

The Tulsa riots are unlikely to happen again? People say that all the time until it actually does happen again. Let's look at the Birmingham bombing situation that occurred in _1963_, before blacks were even allowed to vote. Four young girls were killed just for being black. But yet, here we are in 2015, were 9 blacks were shot and killed- you guessed it- just for being black. And what happened after that? , 3 of them have been suspected of arson.   

And as for your many generations ago, let's actually look at some facts: 

Slavery in America began in 1619-  396 years ago. 

Slavery ended in 1865- 150 years ago. Lasted for over 246 years.  

Jim Crow Laws began in 1877 - 130 years ago, 12 years after the end of black slavery.  

Jim Crow laws ended in 1954 - 64 years ago, 87 years after they first began. 

Blacks were allowed to vote in 1965- _50 years ago_.  100 years after slavery ended. 

So you mean to tell me that over an accumulation of around 500 years of injustice you expect racism to go away in a_ mere 50_? My mom is around 57. _She was alive before she was even allowed to vote._ Before your great grand uncle was allowed to vote. And if that still doesn't resonate with you, then hear this: Martin Luther King Jr.'s granddaughter is 7 years old.  Let that sink in.

See my biggest pet peeve is when people act like this happened so many years ago and it couldn't possibly affect us today. This isn't Ancient China. This is modern history. The fact that a conceptualized imaginary construct of race still affects us today is not some fairy tale. Matter of fact, race is very recent as well-  This fact alone proves that African slavery that happened before European invasion was completely different that European slavery. This simple folk science became embedded in our global society, so much so that entire groups of people have been killed because of it.

Oh, as a matter of fact, if I do recall, the last recorded lynching was in 1981. That still recent. But you know, nowadays there's no need for lynching. You can kill and shoot, right? Especially if you're white, cause then you can just justify that you were "scared for your life".   

And lastly, there are thousands of black Americans who would leave, but considering how racism has affected humans on a global scale, the same amount of discrimination and prejudice could be found anywhere, not just America. After all, it's not like slavery only existed in North America. Let's not pretend like the British empire, the French, and the Spanish empire didn't participate in this shit too. Black people have every right to be in this America like everybody else, and it's a shame we're literally fighting for the value of our lives in the same country that we built.


----------



## baconbits (Jul 30, 2015)

Seto Kaiba said:


> He's a self-involved jackass, I don't care about getting his respect or showing him any.



I wasn't referring to that.  He'll have to earn respect like everyone else.  I think your arguments went past your original scope and you were overshooting your original target.



Seto Kaiba said:


> He came in here with extremely flawed notions and clearly had no desire to actually inform himself. He's just another kid that sees a situation and thinks as far as he can see it is as far as it goes.



His argument was entirely based off of his experience and that's a weak argument to make about an entire culture.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Where I came from not all the people were black but were entrapped in a cycle of poverty nonetheless, brought about by circumstances over a century in the making. I recognize that, I recognize my fortune in getting out of it, and the exceptional case in that.



Its hard to comment on your personal experiences.  But I know for a fact that most of the poverty I've seen is based off of personal failings, not institutional racism.

Case one: my uncle.  Love him to death, but he never graduated highschool and never wanted to.  Could not keep a job because he constantly wants to smoke weed.  He had both parents in the home and a loving household.  Had a child out of wedlock because he decided to cheat on his wife.  He's now divorced.  All of the faults he's had are his own.  Some white people probably mistreated him in the past but the ultimate cause of his downfall were his own actions.

Case two: my aunt.  Not a particular favorite of mine but got pregnant as a teenager.  That sunk her.  She finished her education and has an associates degree but because of multiple divorces and kids she can't care for she's never accumulated wealth.  Before you site a family situation realize that my mother never had the issues her sister did.

Both of these cases are people that literally did themselves in.  I regret that they did but their poverty is literally their own making, not a result of racism, discrimination or anything else.  The rest of the family is middle class.

But what chance does a kid born to a 16 mother and 33 year old grandmother have but to repeat that cycle?  That cycle is self initiated, but it is almost impossible to break.  In that sense I agree with you.  But I think a point must be made: the success of each individual must be considered the responsibility of each individual person.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Why are there so many single mothers in poverty?



Because they have unprotected sex and don't consider the consequences of doing so.  I've seen it happen a number of times.  Often there are no legal issues; the relationship was simply not serious enough to demand that the father take his role seriously.



Seto Kaiba said:


> See, you are just taking a matter but not asking the questions. A large number of black fathers are dead or incarcerated.



I wish I could agree with you but even if a large number are dead or incarcerated you've not mitigated the fact that each person is personally responsible for their own actions and their own success.  In many cases the fathers just don't want to be there in their child's life.  Its sad but most often the case.

As a culture we also have many that glorify illegal activity.  I love trap music as much as the next brother, but it bothers me that some kids actually believe in this stuff and live accordingly.  That music is not made by the white man or a white institution; we perpetuate those poisonous lines ourselves and our children recite them every day.  That's not Jim Crow, that's a bad aspect of hip hop culture.

Why are people dead?  Largely they are killed by fellow blacks over some turf war or personal beef that is so petty it would make you cry to hear of it.  My brother works in the local prison, so I am fully aware of what goes on there.  Its sad how pathetic the mindsets you find there are, but those mindsets again are the result of these men's choices; they are not being brainwashed by any organized patriarchy.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Then there are genuine scumbags who just wanna get around. Then there are those that simply don't know how to be fathers because they never had such a figure to teach them. It's all cyclical, ultimately.



I agree with this 100%.



Seto Kaiba said:


> It's not about blaming white people, I just told the other guy this. It's about understanding the root of the problem so you can address it in its present form. If you're not going to bother to trace back on its history and how that leads into the present you are never going to find a solution that addresses the matter.



And I understand that.  But what's the solution?  I, like you, can trace these problems back, but the solution has always been better schools, less kids born out of wedlock, and less crime.  Out of those three solutions (and with these we'd literally lift 99% of the troubled population out of abject poverty) two are the choice of the individual and one the responsibility of the government (schools).  And since the government is composed of the citizenry even in that aspect black culture must take some responsibility.

Too often we have stood silently while our schools have been criminally mismanaged, churning out half educated individuals who have no hope of rising to the crest of society.  Something must be done about this.  It would help if those leading our cities were thrown out on their cans, but this won't happen until individuals make the choice that their lives and educations matter.



Seto Kaiba said:


> It's almost analogous to the number of poor white moms that exist in the rural south, especially near the Appalachian mountains. It's a complex matter. Yet a big root of it is the poverty itself, and it's important to understand the history that led to that current situation and cycle of poverty.



I agree with this.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Refer to previous response. You give a simplistic answer to a complex and long-standing problem.



The issue is complex and part of the issue is the alienation of black masculinity in the larger culture.  We've always been seen as dangerous.  But you cannot deny my point that personal responsibility is a large part of the problem AND the solution.  I'm not minimizing the problem; I'm acknowledging that the complexity of it doesn't allow all the blame to be pushed outside of the black community.  Some fingers must aim inside of black culture.



Seto Kaiba said:


> When you drive a community to poverty, then crime and drugs come knocking, and those do tear a family apart.



True.  But there was a time when the black family was stronger than the white ones.  Much of this dissipated after many of the social programs were implemented, which is the fault of the naive left that I spend much of my time railing against.

This is not to suggest that was the only cause.  As I said before the issue is complex.  But it is not so complex that we cannot identify some of the issues with ease.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Don't fucking strawman me, bacon. Especially when I stated blacks in America are managing to make progress despite what this country has thrown at them in particular.



I didn't strawman you.  The point you made was ridiculous.  If the history of slavery will always have an impact you'll never raise your expectations.  The simple question should be answer: how long is long enough where you'll stop blaming slavery and Jim Crow for the condition of blacks?  Because from where I stand they are instrumental in our poverty but certainly not more than the personal choices many individuals have made.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 30, 2015)

baconbits said:


> Its hard to comment on your personal experiences.  But I know for a fact that most of the poverty I've seen is based off of personal failings, not institutional racism.



Sorry, but this is exactly why conservatives have been so terrible at dealing with the poverty issue. You don't recognize its systemic nature. 


> Case one: my uncle.  Love him to death, but he never graduated highschool and never wanted to.  Could not keep a job because he constantly wants to smoke weed.  He had both parents in the home and a loving household.  Had a child out of wedlock because he decided to cheat on his wife.  He's now divorced.  All of the faults he's had are his own.  Some white people probably mistreated him in the past but the ultimate cause of his downfall were his own actions.
> 
> Case two: my aunt.  Not a particular favorite of mine but got pregnant as a teenager.  That sunk her.  She finished her education and has an associates degree but because of multiple divorces and kids she can't care for she's never accumulated wealth.  Before you site a family situation realize that my mother never had the issues her sister did.
> 
> Both of these cases are people that literally did themselves in.  I regret that they did but their poverty is literally their own making, not a result of racism, discrimination or anything else.  The rest of the family is middle class



You've got to look beyond your own personal experiences and get a picture of the projected average to really have an understanding of how cyclical poverty is in communities. Even with Southern whites for example, the middle-class has never been as robust as with its northern counterparts, an observation made as far back as the days of slavery, which slavery ironically had a hand in forming. 



> But what chance does a kid born to a 16 mother and 33 year old grandmother have but to repeat that cycle?  That cycle is self initiated, but it is almost impossible to break.  In that sense I agree with you.  But I think a point must be made: the success of each individual must be considered the responsibility of each individual person.



I'm not discounting responsibility, but I'm also not ignoring circumstances beyond our control either. I could have easily ended up a gangster or drug peddler if just a few things had gone differently. You do have mothers even without fathers present try to teach their kids how to be right, but sometimes a bad community is just too much of an overpowering influence, and the desperation to get out of poverty drives one to crime. While they should always be held responsible, such acknowledgment is not mutually exclusive to acknowledgment of the circumstances that potentially led them there. 



> Because they have unprotected sex and don't consider the consequences of doing so.  I've seen it happen a number of times.  Often there are no legal issues; the relationship was simply not serious enough to demand that the father take his role seriously.



The matter of unprotected sex I feel like very much boils down to the poor education in these places overall. That is one factor in particular which is analogous to poor, rural folk which I came from. They both have lots of children, and earlier compared to suburban, middle-class families. 

Other than that I don't think it's just reckless abandon, but a young girl getting smooth-talked by a guy she thinks is the love of her life, cases which I know too often...or the guy really does want to be the father but he's already wrapped up in a life of crime, so the mother does not want the child being influenced by such or the father is already in jail. 



> I wish I could agree with you but even if a large number are dead or incarcerated you've not mitigated the fact that each person is personally responsible for their own actions and their own success.  In many cases the fathers just don't want to be there in their child's life.  Its sad but most often the case.



No. A person is responsible for their own actions, and a person is responsible to an extent for their successes. The truth is that success and failure there play a number of factors that are simply beyond your control. You should always do your best to be as successful as possible, but it is delusional to pretend as if all those that succeed did so because they worked harder than those that didn't. 

Also: 



> As a culture we also have many that glorify illegal activity.  I love trap music as much as the next brother, but it bothers me that some kids actually believe in this stuff and live accordingly.  That music is not made by the white man or a white institution; we perpetuate those poisonous lines ourselves and our children recite them every day.  That's not Jim Crow, that's a bad aspect of hip hop culture.



That is a worrying aspect, I admit. There's a lot of rap across the spectrum that glorifies criminal behavior. A lot when pressed on it, being aware of their audiences don't like to acknowledge the impact they have on their young listeners. However...I can't ignore that the largest market for that genre aren't even black kids, it's white suburban kids. It can potentially have an effect on the cycle of crime in these poor neighborhoods, but it comes off more as a product above anything else. 



> Why are people dead?  Largely they are killed by fellow blacks over some turf war or personal beef that is so petty it would make you cry to hear of it.  My brother works in the local prison, so I am fully aware of what goes on there.  Its sad how pathetic the mindsets you find there are, but those mindsets again are the result of these men's choices; they are not being brainwashed by any organized patriarchy.



Why do you keep strawmanning like this? It's not a matter of brainwashing. Yet there was an undeniable effort to destroy these communities by driving them into poverty. Because poverty does drive one to desperate measures, poverty drives one to crime. Then on top of that when a country denies not only opportunity for economic advancement for a long time, but educational opportunties, you're naturally going to have these matters become an issue. 

You need to really understand that realizing the factors that play a role in this current circumstances is not the same as saying that none of these individuals have zero responsibility for their actions. What's also important to understand is that people, including you and I, are conditioned whether we realize it or not to particular ways and behaviors as are they despite our ability to consciously reject it.



> And I understand that.  But what's the solution?  I, like you, can trace these problems back, but the solution has always been better schools, less kids born out of wedlock, and less crime.



Those are not solutions, those are goals. 



> Out of those three solutions (and with these we'd literally lift 99% of the troubled population out of abject poverty) two are the choice of the individual and one the responsibility of the government (schools).  And since the government is composed of the citizenry even in that aspect black culture must take some responsibility.



You look at these things in far too simplistic terms, bacon. 

A lot of these poor families do have fathers and are still impoverished. Education is the most important factor when it comes to economic opportunity, and such opportunities have a direct link to poverty and crime. Yet even to this day historically black communities get the shaft on the educational matters in particular. The public education system as it is, is inadequate. What do you think is going to be the case for those living in the lowest-income neighborhoods?



> Too often we have stood silently while our schools have been criminally mismanaged, churning out half educated individuals who have no hope of rising to the crest of society.  Something must be done about this.  It would help if those leading our cities were thrown out on their cans, but this won't happen until individuals make the choice that their lives and educations matter.



Yes, that's in general. As I stated, public education is woefully inadequate. 



> The issue is complex and part of the issue is the alienation of black masculinity in the larger culture.  We've always been seen as dangerous.  But you cannot deny my point that personal responsibility is a large part of the problem AND the solution.  I'm not minimizing the problem; I'm acknowledging that the complexity of it doesn't allow all the blame to be pushed outside of the black community.  Some fingers must aim inside of black culture.



I think most are no more or less responsible individuals than any other American citizen. Yet that is why I look to the factors surrounding them as well, many of which are beyond their own control. There should always be a concept of personal responsibility, and an attempt to break the cycles many of these were simply born in. With that, I also recognize that this does not happen overnight. Especially not as rapidly as one like ShiggyDiggyDoo ignorantly believes. It's easier to destroy something than to rebuild it oftentimes. The concentrated effort this country has engaged in throughout its history to tear down its black citizens was a long and devoted effort. Undoing that will all the same be a long, devoted effort. 



> True.  But there was a time when the black family was stronger than the white ones.  Much of this dissipated after many of the social programs were implemented, which is the fault of the naive left that I spend much of my time railing against.
> 
> This is not to suggest that was the only cause.  As I said before the issue is complex.  But it is not so complex that we cannot identify some of the issues with ease.



But most blacks aren't on those social programs. The rate of blacks on them on top of that is similar to that of any other group. I also think snatching those away only makes the problem worse. As the issue of poverty was worse before such programs were implemented. We look at the situation before through rose-tinted glasses, because back in those days there was an active effort to suppress news of the impoverished and pretend like they didn't exist. Especially as it pertained to black citizens. 



> I didn't strawman you.  The point you made was ridiculous.  If the history of slavery will always have an impact you'll never raise your expectations.



It was not just slavery...that was merely the start of a long ongoing effort of oppression. Slavery is what led to the later circumstances of such efforts, and the consequences of those efforts and the attitudes which wrought them to begin with die hard. That is my point. So yes, you did strawman me. 



> The simple question should be answer: how long is long enough where you'll stop blaming slavery and Jim Crow for the condition of blacks?  Because from where I stand they are instrumental in our poverty but certainly not more than the personal choices many individuals have made.



That's where I vehemently disagree. I think, and personal experience considered as well, see poor blacks, and poor people in general for that matter, as being no more or less responsible than any other group. Yet the opportunities and circumstances around them are different and/or more limited than those of higher economic standing. Meritocracy is a dying concept in this country. It's not merely enough for many people, again, these issues are more systemic than you acknowledge. On top of that, I see a harsher attitude applied on the poor more than I do anyone else in this country. Especially if they are not white.


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## Lit (Jul 30, 2015)

Wow I really wish people would understand what "institutionalized racism" meant before they debate about race relations in America. A good google search would do all of us some good.


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## Мoon (Jul 30, 2015)

ShiggyDiggyDoo said:


> It's the fault of the white ancestors that african american society today is in a rut apparently, but other non-whites can come in America and be successful in it in less than a decade all entirely on their own...?
> 
> Like, how does that even work? How is it that the african american community is a weird factor compared to all other races? Hell, it's not even just races, but_ ethnic groups_ as well. The Nigerian-American communities are not as bad as the general african american communities. the 1960s is kind of a long time too, man. There's just gotta be something wrong with the african american community in itself for it to stay in shambles for so long.






ShiggyDiggyDoo said:


> No, this is all just some fucking bullshit. How can you even fucking believe this shit? How can you believe that the reason the black community is fucked up is because of something that happened so long ago? Okay, I know that the past CAN affect shit, that's true, but slavery? that ended MANY generations ago. Jim Crow ended decades ago. I can fuck a white woman without being lynched. I can talk back to a white man without being lynched. That shit doesn't fucking happen anymore. The tulsa riots were horrible but it's highly unlikely that something like that will happen again. It's MORE likely that some black community will riot over the death of some rotten thug.
> 
> Goddamn, there are people that come from 3rd world countries where they've been oppressed that come over to a 1st world country that are able to live a much better life than they had in their own country just within a couple of years. You really expect me to believe this horse shit? I've got a great grand uncle of my own who seriously illiterate who has lived in the Jim Crow era, yet he's now living in a nice house, comfortably living out the rest of his days with his retirement money.
> 
> You know, if it's so bad, then why not leave? Go to Canada? Go to Mexico? these apparent deplorable conditions, why doesn't the black community leave? Jews have been leaving Europe IMMEDIATELY because of the muslim hordes entering the place. Why don't the blacks just leave to go to another country if it's so bad? That's what everybody else does.


Let me start off by saying, I stopped lurking the thread at your first post, thinking of replying to it then getting lazy and stuff. off topic though

What you originally were trying to get a response from me was my response to a troll. Not the haha, kek type of troll, but the kind of shit that gives black people a bad stigma, and stereotypes and all that other bullshit is one thing, but suggesting a horrifyingly failed idea to repeat history through yet another path of hatred and sagaciously redundancy is another.  If what was said about you here is true, then I'd like you to know I'm a black person myself. I was born here, but I'm one of those Nigerian american people you were referring to. What I basically tried to EXPLAIN to that fucking retarded troll attempt (if you can call dare call it a statement), is that the african american society is what it is today because of , and you nailed it in the head with your reply to me, a loss of heritage. Doesn't take a genius to know that, but it takes a strong willed person to live in that kind of realm and not fall completely and deeply into it. 

Seto asked earlier on to why people even replied to that shitpost, and my response is I felt the need to steer that backwatered knowledge away from the topic at hand. Not that it's any better than what we're discussing now, but by suggesting 'all black men beat the shit out of their victim white women'
through some third-rate prison raped broken shell of a man, I can't help but intervene. I won't be compared to someone as stupid who, not only uses facebook to portray his violence to his presumed family, but to unknowingly or not, shame us as a population and be held accountable as proof that we're as inferior as the degenerate on that facebook photoshot.


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## Leeroy Jenkins (Jul 30, 2015)

I'd like to point out that the whole "why don't you move to Country X" argument is heavily dependent on assuming the United States doesn't keep you by the balls when you move to another country, especially if you try to renounce citizenship. 

Also, Lit and Seto are on point. If you're going to try to look into something complicated like black history and racism, read up on the topic before regurgitating the usual rhetoric. There's more than enough books and studies on the subject that it's very easy to debunk the rhetoric that has been going around for decades now.


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