# Rank Kisame Hoshigaki



## The_Conqueror (Nov 13, 2016)

*Rank Kisame Hoshigaki Among
Knowledge: Manga 
Battle ground: Neutral
Akatsuki*

*War Arc Obito*
*6 paths of Pain*
*Itachi Uchiha*
*Konan*
*Deidara*
*Sasori*
*Kakazu*
*Hidan*
*Hokages*

*Hashirama Senju*
*Minato Namikaze*
*Hiruzen Sarutobi*
*Danzo Shimura( koto restricted)*
*Tobirama Senju*
*Tsunade Senju*
*Hatake Kakashi*
*Tsuchikages*

*Muu*
*Ohnoki*
*Raikages*

*3rd Raikage*
*4th Raikage*
*Kazekages*

*3rd Kazekage*
*Rasa*
*War arc Gaara*
*Mizukages*

*Gengetsu Hozuki*
*4th Mizukage*
*Mei Terumi*
*Sanins*

*War Arc Orochimaru*
*Sage Jiraiya*
*Konoha Crush Orochimaru*
*Base Jiraiya*
*Tsunade*
*War Arc Mentions*

*Sage Naruto*
*KCM naruto*
*Bee*
*Kakashi (One mangekyou)*
*Hanzo*
*Sakura*
*Sasuke (kabuto fight)*
*Chiyo*
*Kimimaro*


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## Icegaze (Nov 13, 2016)

*Knowledge: Manga 
Battle ground: Neutral
Akatsuki*

*War Arc Obito*
*6 paths of Pain*
*Itachi Uchiha*
*Konan*
*Deidara*
*Sasori*
*Kakazu*
*Hidan*
confused as to Konan steep ranking here. In any case kisame is below obito, pain, itachi and above the rest. 
*
Hokages*

*Hashirama Senju*
*Minato Namikaze*
*Hiruzen Sarutobi*
*Danzo Shimura( koto restricted)*
*Tobirama Senju*
*Tsunade Senju*
*Hatake Kakashi*
he is conspicuously below minato, tobirama, hashirama , danzo, however he should be able to beat the rest 

*Tsuchikages*

*Muu*
*Ohnoki*
comically below both
*
Raikages*

*3rd Raikage*
*4th Raikage*
should beat both. he hard counters
*
Kazekages*

*3rd Kazekage*
*Rasa*
*War arc GaaraGaara*
kills them all. he is above them
*
Mizukages*

*Gengetsu Hozuki*
*4th Mizukage*
*Mei Terumi*
yagura kills him. he beats the rest 
*
Sanins*

*War Arc Orochimaru*
*Sage Jiraiya*
*Konoha Crush Orochimaru*
*Base Jiraiya*
*Tsunade*
he is below sage jiraiya, all version of oro. however should take the other versions 
*
War Arc Mentions*

*Sage Naruto*
*KCM naruto*
*Bee*
*Kakashi (One mangekyou)*
*Hanzo*
*Sakura*
*Sasuke (kabuto fight)*
*Chiyo*
*Kimimaro*
he is below sage and kcm naruto, bee, sasuke, kakashi. However on feats he should be able to kill the rest


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## Bonly (Nov 13, 2016)

*Akatsuki*
Obito
Pain
Itachi

Sasori
*Kisame*/Konan
Kakuzu
Deidara

Hidan

*Hokage*
Hashi
Minato
Tsunade/Tobi

Danzo
Kisame

Hiruzen/Kakashi

*Tsuchikage*
Onoki

Muu
Kisame

*Raikage*
Sandaime Raikage
*Kisame*
A

*Mizukage*
The French Dude
*Kisame*
Mei
*
Sannin*
Orochi/Tsunade/Jiraiya

*Kisame

War arc Mention*
Killer B
KCM Naruto
EMS Sasuke
Sage Mode Naruto

*Kisame*
Kakashi
Chiyo

Hanzo
Kimi

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 3


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## Parallaxis (Nov 13, 2016)

Oh dear, I smell bait 

@Troyse22.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## JiraiyaFlash (Nov 13, 2016)

*
Akatsuki*

*War Arc Obito*
*6 paths of Pain*
_gap_
*Itachi Uchiha*
*Kakazu / Kisame (w samehada between in ıtachi and kakuzu)*
*Konan*
*Deidara*
*Sasori*
*Kisame (w/o samehada)*
*Hidan*
*Hokages*

*Hashirama Senju*
_gap_
*Minato Namikaze*
*Hiruzen Sarutobi (prime)*
*Tobirama Senju*
*Tsunade Senju*
*Danzo Shimura( koto restricted) / Kisame (with samehada can be between in Tsu and Danzo but without it he is between of kakashi and danzo)*
*Hatake Kakashi*
*Tsuchikages*

*Muu*
*Ohnoki*
 _some gap_

*Kisame (w or w/o samehada)*
*Raikages*

*3rd Raikage*
*4th Raikage*
*Kisame*
*Kazekages*

*War arc Gaara*
*3rd Kazekage / Kisame with samehada*
*Rasa*
*Kisame (w/o samehada)*
*Mizukages*

*4th Mizukage*
*Gengetsu Hozuki*
*Mei Terumi / Kisame (with Samehada)*

*Kisame (w/o samehada)*
*Sanins*

*Sage Jiraiya*
*War Arc Orochimaru (w/o edo) / Tsunade*
*Konoha Crush Orochimaru / Base Jiraiya*
*Kisame*

*War Arc Mentions*

*Sage Naruto*
*Sasuke (kabuto fight)*
*KCM naruto*
*Bee*
*Kisame w samehada*
_little gap_
*Kakashi (One mangekyou)*
*Hanzo (edo)*
*Sakura*
*Kisame w/o samehada*
*Chiyo (edo)*
*Kimimaro*

Reactions: Like 2


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## Troyse22 (Nov 13, 2016)

professor83 said:


> *Rank Kisame Hoshigaki Among
> Knowledge: Manga
> Battle ground: Neutral
> Akatsuki*
> ...



Don't even care if it's bait, I can substantiate my opinions, unlike a good portion of some of these mongoloids that bait me.

Akatsuki:
War Arc Obito
Kisame
Six Paths of Pain
Itachi Uchiha
Deidara
*Gap*
fodder akatsuki.

Hokages:
Hashirama Senju
Kisame Hoshigaki 
*Gap*
Tsunade Senju
Minato Namikaze
Tobirama Senju
Hiruzen Sarutobi
Kakashi Hatake.

Sannin:
War Arc Orochimaru (You didn't restrict ET, so he's a pretty great margin ahead of all the others)
*huge gap*
Kisame Hoshigaki
Jiraiya
Tsunade Senju

War Arc Mentions:
Kisame
Bee
EMS Sasuke
KCM Naruto
Sage Naruto
Kimimaro
The rest are fodder.

Reactions: Funny 5 | Optimistic 2 | Dislike 1


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## Icegaze (Nov 13, 2016)

loving this


kisame above minato, i really enjoy such comedy

kishi firmly disagrees

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 2 | Dislike 1


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## theRonin (Nov 13, 2016)

professor83 said:


> *War Arc Obito*
> 
> *6 paths of Pain*
> 
> ...


Above Konan, below Itachi just because Tsukoyomi.


professor83 said:


> *Hashirama Senju*
> 
> *Minato Namikaze*
> 
> ...


Above Danzo.


professor83 said:


> *Muu*
> 
> *Ohnoki*


Loses to both.


Icegaze said:


> *3rd Raikage*
> 
> *4th Raikage*


Loses to both. Too fast for Kisame.


professor83 said:


> *3rd Kazekage*
> 
> *Rasa*
> 
> *War arc Gaara*


Kisame defeats all.


professor83 said:


> *Gengetsu Hozuki*
> 
> *4th Mizukage*
> 
> *Mei Terumi*


Below Gengetsu, above 4th mizukage.


professor83 said:


> *War Arc Orochimaru*
> 
> *Sage Jiraiya*
> 
> ...


Below Sage Jiraiya.


professor83 said:


> *Sage Naruto*
> 
> *KCM naruto*
> 
> ...


Loses to Sasuke, might defeat KCM Naruto with samehada absorbing Naruto's chakra.

Edit: Might change if convinced otherwise.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 13, 2016)

*I'll presume this is a 1 on 1 based tier list, as such:

Rank Kisame Hoshigaki Among
Knowledge: Manga 
Battle ground: Neutral
Akatsuki*

*War Arc Obito*
*6 paths of Pain*
*Itachi Uchiha*
*Deidara*
*Kisame*
*Kakuzu*
*Sasori*
*Konan*
*Hidan*
*Hokages*

*Hashirama Senju*
*Minato Namikaze*
*Tobirama Senju*
*Kisame*
*Tsunade Senju*
*Danzo Shimura (Koto R)*
*Hiruzen Sarutobi*
*Hatake Kakashi (No Sharingan)*
*Tsuchikages*

*Muu*
*Kisame*
*Ohnoki*
*Raikages*

*Kisame*
*3rd Raikage*
*4th Raikage*
*Kazekages*

*Kisame*
*War-arc Gaara*
*3rd Kazekage*
*Rasa*
*Mizukages*

*Gengetsu Hozuki*
*Kisame*
*4th Mizukage*
*Mei Terumi*
*Sanins*

*War Arc Orochimaru*
*Sage Jiraiya*
*Kisame*
*Tsunade Senju*
*Konoha Crush Orochimaru*
*Base Jiraiya*
*War Arc Mentions*

*KCM Naruto (pre/post 571)*
*Killer Bee*
*SM Naruto (post 571)*
*Kakashi (one MS)*
*Kisame*
*Sasuke (Kabuto fight)*
*Sakura*
*Hanzo*
*Chiyo*
*Kimimaro*
*
If I were to rank them overall as shinobi, many people, including Kisame, would be in different positions. It hurt me to put Onoki and the 3rd Raikage below him, but strictly based on matchups and the way this tier list is run, Kisame would beat both of them, ergo he would be ranked higher within that class. It also hurt me to put Kakashi and Deidara above him, they'd both beat him due to matchup reasons, however he is a stronger shinobi than both of them overall. *

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Troyse22 (Nov 13, 2016)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> *Akatsuki*
> 
> *War Arc Obito*
> *6 paths of Pain*
> ...



Found it interesting how you rated him with and without Samehada, take a like! =)


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## Suoh (Nov 13, 2016)

Akatsuki
Obito
Pain
Itachi
Kisame
Deidara
Sasori/Kakuzu
Konan
Hidan

Hokages
Hashi
Tobi/Minato
Danzo
Tsunade
Kisame
Hiruzen
Kakashi

Tsuchikage
Muu
Onoki
Kisame

Raikage
AAA
Ei
Kisame

Kazekage
Kisame
Gaara
Third
Rasa

Mizukage
Trollkage
Yagura
Kisame
Mei

Sannin
War Oro
Sage Jiraiya/Oro/Tsunade
Kisame
Jiraiya

War Arc
Bee
KCM Nardo
Sage Nardo
Sasuke
Kakashi
Kisame
Sakura

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ayala (Nov 13, 2016)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> *Akatsuki*
> 
> *War Arc Obito*
> *6 paths of Pain*
> ...



Kisame without Samehada isn't even worth mentioning. Samehada is his means of attack and defense, is what he used to overpower Asuma, Gai (momentarily second match) and then B. 

Kisame without Samehada got taken down like nothing in the place where he should be invincible, open sea, and Gai wasn't even targetting him but was after the scroll.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 13, 2016)

Samehada only absorbs chakra cloaks/some ninjutsu and helps him sense people with high chakra pools and some healing. It's a key to his water dome, but he can still use waterdome as a defensive variant.

Without it he's still very fast, very strong, very durable, very intelligent, extremely high stamina, high chakra pool, can still absorb chakra through touch, can still swim through the ground, and has massive defensive/offensive suiton techniques with great range.

Basically, he's still a formidable mid kage level, based on that list it's my opinion he was low balled a bit even with Samehada he wasn't placed well by JiraiyaFlesh- especially in the kazekage, raikage and hokage brackets. But that's only my opinion.

What isn't my opinion, but manga fact, is that Kisame is still a highly dangerous shinobi with or without his blade.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Troyse22 (Nov 13, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Samehada only absorbs chakra cloaks/some ninjutsu and helps him sense people with high chakra pools and some healing. It's a key to his water dome, but that's about it.
> 
> Without it he's still very fast, very strong, very durable, very intelligent, extremely high stamina, high chakra pool, can still absorb chakra through touch, can still swim through the ground, and has massive defensive/offensive suiton techniques with great range.
> 
> Basically, he's still a formidable mid kage level, based on that list it's my opinion he was low balled a bit without Samehada.



Yeah i've never considered Samehada the key to all of Kisame's power.

It's absolutely the key to his regen, but he still has great durability and everything else you mentioned.


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## JiraiyaFlash (Nov 13, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Samehada only absorbs chakra cloaks/some ninjutsu and helps him sense people with high chakra pools and some healing. It's a key to his water dome, but that's about it.



Thats about it ?! He can drain his opponents, he can drain/slow down coming attacks (not all of them), when his chest goes rip off he quickly healed due to samehada regen. Have some sensor abilities like you said.. And Key factor of his Water Dome which is 2nd (for some situation its gonna be 1st though) most powerfull jutsu.

And Samehada is his main core at his taijutus/kenjutsu skills. So ı think "thats about it" quote is the real low balling here..



DaVizWiz said:


> Yeah ım agree with you about even without it he is still formidable opponent and High Jonin/Low Kage Level Shinobi.



His mid-kage with samehada already how without it he is counted as mid-kage ? Who is high-kage to you Tobirama, Muu, Sandaime Raikage, Minato ?! with samehada is he really in same class with these guys ?!

So ı'm not try to low balling Kisame. And Samehada is so important for Kisame ı think Sir.


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## Ayala (Nov 13, 2016)

Yet the key to all his matches has been Samehada.

He's a swordsman of the mist first of all, taking the blade from him is like taking the blade from all the others, you took their main weapon.

Saying he's a mid kage level without Samehada, when his shoten who has all his characteristics only with lower chakra got stomped by Gai when he had it seems strange. Gai in 7 gates literally destroyed him without even targetting him, in his Ideal place. If Kisame was in the ground in that moment, Gai wouldn't even need to open the gates to beat him.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Icegaze (Nov 13, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> *I'll presume this is a 1 on 1 based tier list, as such:
> 
> Rank Kisame Hoshigaki Among
> Knowledge: Manga
> ...


You think kisame can survive 11 minutes of izanagi ?

Is your assumption daikodan absorbs jinton? Or samehada absorbs jinton if so please explain the basis of said hilarious assumptions


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## Troyse22 (Nov 13, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> You think kisame can survive 11 minutes of izanagi ?
> 
> Is your assumption daikodan absorbs jinton? Or samehada absorbs jinton if so please explain the basis of said hilarious assumptions



All you do is insult people? How about you actually contribute?


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## Icegaze (Nov 13, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> All you do is insult people? How about you actually contribute?



Read what you quoted and please explain where the insult is 

Are you perhaps confused ? 

My question is simple addressed to someone who could possibly come up with a decent arguèrent very unlike yourself 

How does kisame manage to survive 11 minutes


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## Troyse22 (Nov 13, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> so please explain the basis of said hilarious assumptions



Why? Why do you need to throw that in there? You're the one who's confused.



Icegaze said:


> How does kisame manage to survive 11 minutes



Kisame has the durability, stamina, reserves, intelligence and regen to survive 11 minutes of Izanagi.

Samehada casually absorbs any Fuuton or fuuton shuriken/kunai.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

I don't see minato beating kisame. Kisame regeneration can tank any minato attack, and once minato trapped in the water ball thing he's fucked.And alive minato is not above tobiram.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Troyse22 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> I don't see minato beating kisame. Kisame regeneration can tank any minato attack,







3sumrock said:


> water ball

Reactions: Funny 1 | Useful 1


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## Icegaze (Nov 13, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Why? Why do you need to throw that in there? You're the one who's confused.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



regen a removed head, quite a feat. or is the argument a futon enhanced kunai cannot cut off kisame head when he bleeds from kunai thrown by aoba?


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## Troyse22 (Nov 13, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> or is the argument a futon enhanced kunai cannot cut off kisame head when he bleeds



the argument is that he absorbs the chakra out of the kunai before it even pierces his skin, similar to how he did with Bees raiton enhanced pencil.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> regen a removed head, quite a feat. or is the argument a futon enhanced kunai cannot cut off kisame head when he bleeds from kunai thrown by aoba?


Kisame was able to react to tail beast clocked bee who's fast as 4th raikage if not faster.minato throwing Kunai is not faster an bee throwing sword.
Kisame can win if he use water jutsu when minato throwing kunai
Kisame can win without water jutsu due to resgernation and pure strength

Reactions: Like 1


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## Icegaze (Nov 13, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> the argument is that he absorbs the chakra out of the kunai before it even pierces his skin, similar to how he did with Bees raiton enhanced pencil.



which is possible only if he can see the attack coming. not from a blind side attack. thanks to izanagi thats always a possibility. danzo has 11 attempts at it


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## Troyse22 (Nov 13, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> which is possible only if he can see the attack coming. not from a blind side attack. thanks to izanagi thats always a possibility. danzo has 11 attempts at it



Samehada can move and act independently as well as sense chakra, if Kisame doesn't see it coming, Samehada will sense it and block from Danzo.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> Kisame was able to react to tail beast clocked bee who's fast as 4th raikage if not faster.minato throwing Kunai is not faster an bee throwing sword.
> Kisame can win if he use water jutsu when minato throwing kunai
> Kisame can win without water jutsu due to resgernation and pure strength


V2 Ay is faster than B as per canon. Sasuke could react to and dodge B while he couldn't even register V2 Ay's movements at all. There's a definite speed gap

Reactions: Agree 1


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> V2 Ay is faster than B as per canon. Sasuke could react to and dodge B while he couldn't even register V2 Ay's movements at all. There's a definite speed gap


1:that's not v2(It's like 1.5 full clocked is dark red) bee when sasuke dodge bee 2: not to  mention that's not prime ay when fighting alive minato
3:kisame still kill minato in the ways that I listed


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## Icegaze (Nov 13, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Samehada can move and act independently as well as sense chakra, if Kisame doesn't see it coming, Samehada will sense it and block from Danzo.



Samehada barely moved to block a frontal predictable assault
Samehada being able to counter in the time danzo magically appears behind with a Kunai to hand is unlikely 

Samehada couldn't even stop kisame from kicking it


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 1:that's not v2(It's like 1.5 full clocked is dark red) bee when sasuke dodge bee 2: not to  mention that's not prime ay when fighting alive minato
> 3:kisame still kill minato in the ways that I listed


1. The differece in speed between those two forms isn't so much that B can go from having his attacks dodged by Sasuke to utterly blitzing him. Not even close 
2. Late 40's = physical prime? Nope. Ay was in his late twenties when he fought Minato, he was actually in his prime physically then 
3. Minato > Jiraiya > Kisame


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## Troyse22 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 1:that's not v2(It's like 1.5 full clocked is dark red) bee when sasuke dodge bee 2: not to  mention that's not prime ay when fighting alive minato
> 3:kisame still kill minato in the ways that I listed



I understand you're new here, but please try to provide scans from the manga of specifically what you're talking about. It's easier than watching a 20 minute video. Or at least give us the time in the video so we can easily find what you're talking about.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> 1. The differece in speed between those two forms isn't so much that B can go from having his attacks dodged by Sasuke to utterly blitzing him. Not even close
> 2. Late 40's = physical prime? Nope. Ay was in his late twenties when he fought Minato, he was actually in his prime physically then
> 3. Minato > Jiraiya > Kisame


1: watch the video
2:reason why bee didn't hit sasuke is because he wasn't aiming at sasuke. And sasuke barely dodge bee. Yes it does make a different, a lot actually 
2:late 40s shown more feats
3:kisame > minato > jiraiya


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## WorldsStrongest (Nov 13, 2016)

*Akatsuki*

*War Arc Obito*
*6 paths of Pain*
*Itachi Uchiha*
*Kisame*
*Konan*
*Deidara*
*Sasori*
*Kakazu*
*Hidan*
*Hokages*

*Hashirama Senju*
*Minato Namikaze*
*Hiruzen Sarutobi*
*Danzo Shimura( koto restricted)*
*Tobirama Senju*
*Kisame*
*Tsunade Senju*
*Hatake Kakashi*
*Tsuchikages*

*Muu*
*Ohnoki*
*Kisame*
*Raikages*

*3rd Raikage*
*4th Raikage*
*Kisame*
*Kazekages*


*Kisame*
*3rd Kazekage*
*Rasa*
*War arc Gaara*
*Mizukages*

*Gengetsu Hozuki*
*4th Mizukage*
*Kisame*
*Mei Terumi*
*Sanins*

*War Arc Orochimaru*
*Sage Jiraiya*
*Konoha Crush Orochimaru*
*Kisame*
*Base Jiraiya*
*Tsunade (assuming base tsunade)*
*War Arc Mentions*

*KCM naruto*
*Sasuke (kabuto fight)*
*Bee*
*Sage Naruto*
*Kakashi (One mangekyou)/Kisame*
*Hanzo*
*Sakura*
*Chiyo*
*Kimimaro*

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 1: watch the video
> 2:reason why bee didn't hit sasuke is because he wasn't aiming at sasuke. And sasuke barely dodge bee. Yes it does make a different, a lot actually
> 2:late 40s shown more feats
> 3:kisame > minato > jiraiya


He used a Lariat vs Sasuke and the Sauce dodged it. Plain and simple. Sasuke with more mastery over his Sharingan couldn't even see Ay's Shunshin. Saying B is faster than Ay is literally fanfic. Nothing more nothing less man 

Common sense. Someone in his late 20's is closer to their physical prime than someone in their late 40's. 

Jiraiya has multiple statements placing him above Kisame. He has superior feats as well. Not to mention his portrayal is better in nearly every way. That same Jiraiya admits complete inferiority to the Yondaime Hokage. Guess it makes sense though, you're jealous that the Yellow Flash solo's your fave


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## Serene Grace (Nov 13, 2016)

*Akatsuki*

*War Arc Obito*
*6 paths of Pain*
*Itachi Uchiha*
*Kisame*
*Konan*
*Deidara*
*Sasori*
*Kakazu*
*Hidan*
*Hokages*

*Hashirama Senju*
*Minato Namikaze*
*Hiruzen Sarutobi*
*Danzo Shimura( koto restricted)*
*Tobirama Senju*
*Kisame*
*Tsunade Senju*
*Hatake Kakashi*
*Tsuchikages*

*Muu*
*Ohnoki*
*Kisame*
*Raikages*

*3rd Raikage*
*4th Raikage*
*Kisame*
*Kazekages*


*Kisame*
*3rd Kazekage*
*Rasa*
*War arc Gaara*
*Mizukages*

*Gengetsu Hozuki*
*4th Mizukage*
*Kisame*
*Mei Terumi*
*Sanins*

*War Arc Orochimaru*
*Sage Jiraiya*
*Konoha Crush Orochimaru*
*Kisame*
*Base Jiraiya*
*Tsunade (assuming base tsunade)*
*War Arc Mentions*

*KCM naruto*
*Sasuke (kabuto fight)*
*Bee*
*Sage Naruto*
*Kakashi (One mangekyou)/Kisame*
*Hanzo*
*Sakura*
*Chiyo*
*Kimimaro*


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## Serene Grace (Nov 13, 2016)

Kisame over Pain and Itachi. Ok I think that's enough of this topic for today.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Nov 13, 2016)

emanthespriggan1234 said:


> *Akatsuki*
> 
> *War Arc Obito*
> *6 paths of Pain*
> ...


Looks like u copy pasted my list haha


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## Eliyua23 (Nov 13, 2016)

Atakuski 

Obito
Nagato 
Itachi
Sasori
Kisame/Kakuzu/Konan
Deidara
Hidan


Hokage 

Hashirama
Minato
Hiruzen 
Tobirama
Tsunade
Kakashi
Kisame

Raikage 

4th/3rd/Kisame


Tsuchikage

Onoki 
Muu 
Kisame

Kazekage

3rd Kazekage
Gaara/Rasa
Kisame

Mizukage

Troll
Yagura/Kisame
Mei

Sannin 
Jiraiya(SM)
Orochimaru(Invasion , War)
Tsunade
Jiraiya(Base)
Kisame

War Arc Mentions

Hanzo(Prime)
Sakura
Naruto(SM/KCM)/Sasuke(Kabuto fight)
Bee
Kakashi
Kisame
Hanzo(Rusty)
Chiyo 
Kimmimaro


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> He used a Lariat vs Sasuke and the Sauce dodged it. Plain and simple. Sasuke with more mastery over his Sharingan couldn't even see Ay's Shunshin. Saying B is faster than Ay is literally fanfic. Nothing more nothing less man
> 
> Common sense. Someone in his late 20's is closer to their physical prime than someone in their late 40's.
> 
> Jiraiya has multiple statements placing him above Kisame. He has superior feats as well. Not to mention his portrayal is better in nearly every way. That same Jiraiya admits complete inferiority to the Yondaime Hokage. Guess it makes sense though, you're jealous that the Yellow Flash solo's your fave


1:bee was in 1.5 form and sasuke dodge it because he was aiming at the  girl. Episode explain  it . Plain and simple. Even if he dodged it v2 form is faster than v1. And v2 form feats > v1.5. Plain and simple. Use ur brain. 
2:beev2 feats >= raikage
3: someone in 20s doesn't mean is stronger then 40s.
4:feats > statements. And jiraya doesn't have single feats that put him above kisame
5:too bad kisame is not my favorite and I debunked ur wank. Kisame > minato > jiraiya
6: stay mad and get destroyed

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

Concerning all facets of combat (1v1, War Settings (team battles), Supporting Capabilities, etc:

*
Akatsuki*​
*War Arc Obito*
*Itachi Uchiha*
*6 paths of Pain*
*Orochimaru/Sasori*
*Deidara*
*Kisame/Kakuzu/Konan*
*Hidan*
*Zetsu*
Kisame would generally be Kisame's rival, but I categorized Deidara as his superior mostly based on Deidara's aerial support since he can produce numerous birds that can provide aerial support for an entire platoon and plant dozens of landmines underground which renders the opposition immobile and leaves them sitting ducks for C2 and other combined attacks. The essence of Deidara's fighting style however, is his ability to conquer the land, seas, and sky, making him one of the most versatile ninja in the manga which is crucial because he can operate on a high caliber in most situations. Sasori was still placed as Deidara's superior because Sasori can accomplish almost anything Deidara can, but Sasori doesn't have a critical weakness to Raiton and the flexibility of Sasori's Satetsu enables him to construct massive defenses for an entire squadron as opposed to Deidara who cannot.

Kisame's still relatively good because much like his other peers (Konan w/ prep), Kisame's very effective in crowd control, but he doesn't provide the supportive capabilities as his superiors do and much of his portrayal is derived from Kisame's ability to absorb an abundance of chakra which is improbable in most scenarios.


*Hokages*​
*Hashirama Senju*
*Minato Namikaze*
*Tobirama Senju*
*Tsunade Senju*
*Hiruzen Sarutobi*
*Kisame*
*Hatake Kakashi/ Danzo*
I'll make this brief, but Kisame was on the bottom of the list because his supportive capabilities pale in comparison to his superiors. Hashirama's Mokuton has numerous applications ranging from espionage to repressing his opponents through colossal attacks while Minato and Tobirama, have supreme versatility in battle through Hiraishin. Tsunade was also selected to be much higher than Kisame due to her defensive support through Katsuyu and her illustrious medical ninjutsu while Hiruzen has greater versatility than Kisame due to his eminence in ninjutsu.

Generally, I'd place Tobirama above Minato, but Minato's FTG demonstrated greater versatility and his Shunshin makes Minato significantly better in scattering Kunai over vast distances as well which was pivotal in the Shinobi Alliance's success during the War.

Kisame unfortunately ... simply doesn't have any of that besides crowd control ...


*Tsuchikages*​
*Muu*
*Ohnoki*
*Kisame*
Pretty straightforward because they'd both defeat him in a 1v1 and have greater support in general through Doton defenses and their weight alteration


*Raikages*​
*3rd Raikage*
*Kisame*
*4th Raikage*
Kisame would defeat them both overall due to their heavy reliance on chakra, but I placed Sandaime Raikage above because of his preeminent physical strength and resilience that enables him to circumvent most defenses and even safely battle at close-range even within a crossfire because his durability enables him to withstand that level of punishment.


*Kazekages*​
*3rd Kazekage*
*War Arc Gaara*
*Kisame*
*Rasa*
War Arc Gaara was essentially above Kisame due to his defensive capabilities that were worthy of praise according to Madara which allowed him to muster fortified defenses that were capable of protecting an entire Village as well as his Shinobi Division during the War. Gaara, of course, also has a superior tactical mind which enabled him to demonstrate commendable leadership when commanding an entire team and his elite sensing capabilities enabled him to locate the crafty  and illustrious Muu who was considered the Invisible Man within an era full of MS Uchihas and Hyuugas.
*

Mizukages*​
*4th Mizukage*
*Mei Terumi/ Kisame*
*Gengetsu*
Gengetsu is the strongest among this category, but unfortunately, Gengetsu's Mirage isn't very effective when operating under a team when their team will also be blinded by his mirage. Yagura, fortunately, didn't have this repercussion and was placed at the top because he was a Perfect Jin while Mei was selected as Kisame's rival because while she's lacking in scale, she compensates for that with her supportive capabilities and lethal Kekkei Genkai.


*Sannins*​
*War Arc Orochimaru*
*Sage Jiraiya/ Orochimaru/ Tsunade *
*Kisame*
*Base Jiraiya*
I think was rather self-explanatory and I'm much too lazy to provide a convincing argument for this. 


*War Arc Mentions*​
*KCM Naruto*
*EMS Sasuke (Kabuto Fight)/ Sage Naruto*
*War Arc Sakura*
*Bee*
*Kisame*
*Kakashi (One mangekyou)*
*Chiyo*
*Hanzo (Rusty)*
*Kimimaro*

Same deal as above, but I mostly placed KCM Naruto at the top because he's roughly Sage Naruto's equal, but he can also slap on Chakra Cloaks and scatter clones throughout an entire battle-field which makes KCM Naruto the best in this category.

Chiyo was also placed below Hanzo (Rusty) because his fumes are dangerous in a team setting and the inconvenient cool-down that pertains to his poison makes it impractical in the midst of battle.

Reactions: Like 2


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> *Kisame was able to react to tail beast clocked bee who's fast as 4th raikage if not faster*.minato throwing Kunai is not faster an bee throwing sword.
> Kisame can win if he use water jutsu when minato throwing kunai
> Kisame can win without water jutsu due to resgernation and pure strength



did,



			
				Raikage said:
			
		

> *There is no shinobi faster than me*. Ever since the Fourth Hokage died!


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## Troyse22 (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Link removed



Link removed

Just gonna throw that In there.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 1:bee was in 1.5 form and sasuke dodge it because he was aiming at the  girl. Episode explain  it . Plain and simple. Even if he dodged it v2 form is faster than v1. And v2 form feats > v1.5. Plain and simple. Use ur brain.
> 2:beev2 feats >= raikage
> 3: someone in 20s doesn't mean is stronger then 40s.
> 4:feats > statements. And jiraya doesn't have single feats that put him above kisame
> ...


At this point, you're just denying manga canon and trying to refute common sense. Simple fact is; Minato would dance circles around Kisame then Rasengan his head off.  Make the thread if you disagree


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> did,
> 
> Just gonna throw that In there.



did,

 Suigetsu > Bee > Raikage

Reactions: Like 1


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 1:bee was in 1.5 form and sasuke dodge it because he was aiming at the  girl. *Episode explain  it* . Plain and simple. Even if he dodged it v2 form is faster than v1. And v2 form feats > v1.5. Plain and simple. Use ur brain.



did,



			
				Bee said:
			
		

> He's the first to dodge my Eight Tails Form since Brother.



I dunno man, sounds like the anime misconstrued what the manga conveyed then.



> 2:beev2 feats >= raikage







> 4:feats > statements. And jiraya doesn't have single feats that put him above kisame



Manga ain't real life. Just cuz "actions speak louder than words," pertains to reality doesn't mean it'd concern a fictional universe.



> 5:too bad kisame is not my favorite and I debunked ur wank. Kisame > minato > jiraiya



Even though Minato trounced both Raikage and the Almighty Bee. Okay ... 



> 6: stay mad and get destroyed


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 13, 2016)

These two pages alone are pretty adamant with the portrayal of Minato > Kisame
did,
did,




Troyse22 said:


> did,
> 
> Just gonna throw that In there.


How is B reacting to V1 Raikage relevant? Sasuke did him one better, dodged at point blank range and countered him

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 13, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> You think kisame can survive 11 minutes of izanagi ?
> 
> Is your assumption daikodan absorbs jinton? Or samehada absorbs jinton if so please explain the basis of said hilarious assumptions


No, he kills Danzo prior to the seal brace being unlocked and removed.

Samehada cuts through Jinton as it cut through a gigantic fireball and absorbed trickling lightning & highly dense bijuu chakra simultaneously.

Daikodan one shots as soon as Onoki flies out of range of Kisame's normal techniques, if he stays near or at the ground he gets run down and slaughtered by Kisame.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 13, 2016)

oetsuthebest said:


> Yet the key to all his matches has been Samehada.
> 
> He's a swordsman of the mist first of all, taking the blade from him is like taking the blade from all the others, you took their main weapon.
> 
> Saying he's a mid kage level without Samehada, when his shoten who has all his characteristics only with lower chakra got stomped by Gai when he had it seems strange. Gai in 7 gates literally destroyed him without even targetting him, in his Ideal place. If Kisame was in the ground in that moment, Gai wouldn't even need to open the gates to beat him.


Who is the weakest that beats him without his blade, in your opinion?

Because from what I'm hearing you're implying a shinobi that pushed Might Gai to the 7th Gate without his blade is somehow weak as shit.



JiraiyaFlash said:


> Thats about it ?! He can drain his opponents, he can drain/slow down coming attacks (not all of them), when his chest goes rip off he quickly healed due to samehada regen. Have some sensor abilities like you said.. And Key factor of his Water Dome which is 2nd (for some situation its gonna be 1st though) most powerfull jutsu.
> 
> And Samehada is his main core at his taijutus/kenjutsu skills. So ı think "thats about it" quote is the real low balling here..
> 
> ...


I noted everything you just presented, not sure why you're throwing it back at me.

He doesn't need Samehada to be effective in CQC, he blocked Gai's kick and repelled him with a water shark with ease- without moving.

You're implying Samehada can take a low kage level to mid kage... LOL

Kisame barely lowers on my tier list without Samehada. His base stats, Explosive Water Wave, 1,000 Sharks & Daikodan still have him in the middle of the mid kage class, where he was previously in the upper mid kage class.

He can still defeat shinobi like Mei (low mid kage), Rasa (low mid kage), Sasori (low mid kage), Gaara (middle mid kage), Kakuzu (middle mid kage), and Danzo (no Koto- middle mid kage).

If you restrict Susano (MS Sasuke most powerful technique), is he a low kage level now?

If you restrict Hydra (Orochimaru most powerful technique), is he a low kage level now?

If you restrict C4 (Deidara most powerful technique), is he low kage level now?

If you restrict Earth Spear (Kakuzu most powerful technique), is he low kage level now?

If you retrict Frog Song (Jiraiya most powerful technique), is he a low kage level now?

If you restrict Joki Boy (Gengetsu most powerful technique), is he a low kage level now?

If you restrict Afternoon Tiger (Gai most powerful technique), is he a low kage level now?

If you restrict Susano (MS Itachi most powerful technique), is he a low kage level now?

If you restrict Byakugo (Tsunade most powerful technique), is she a low kage level now?

The answer is no to all of these. Waterdome is Kisame's *second* most powerful technique, there's no way losing that and supplemental abilities like minor jutsu/chakra absorption and healing is putting him in a lower class when he still maintains extremely powerful techniques and considerably powerful base stats.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> At this point, you're just denying manga canon and trying to refute common sense. Simple fact is; Minato would dance circles around Kisame then Rasengan his head off.  Make the thread if you disagree


Lmao you're the one that is denying here. Denied anime/manga that bee was aiming at the girl not sasuke.kisame raped him in the water ball when he throwing kunai.plain and simple. He destroyed minato.not to mention his regeneration with his reaction speed and his strength can beat minato without trapped him in the water ball
 kisame feats >>> alive minato.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> Lmao you're the one that is denying here. Denied anime/manga that bee was aiming at the girl not sasuke.kisame raped him in the water ball when he throwing kunai.plain and simple. He destroyed minato.not to mention his regeneration with his reaction speed and his strength can beat minato without trapped him in the water ball
> kisame feats >>> alive minato.



 Bee targeted Sasuke and then instigated another strategy by targeting his comrades because it was convenient.

 What feats puts Bee faster than Minato?


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> Lmao you're the one that is denying here. Denied anime/manga that bee was aiming at the girl not sasuke.kisame raped him in the water ball when he throwing kunai.plain and simple. He destroyed minato.not to mention his regeneration with his reaction speed and his strength can beat minato without trapped him in the water ball
> kisame feats >>> alive minato.


Bruh....someone linked the page. You can clearly see B says Lariat then swings his arm at Sasuke and proceeds to state Sasuke dodged him. You saying B was hoping to hit Karin from dozens of meters away with the imaginary shockwave? Manga takes precedence over the anime

Kisame got shitblitzed by Naruto and was coughing up blood from a simple physical attack. They compared the blitz to Minato's own speed, not FTG, but his Shunshin. Kisame was in complete awe of Naruto's speed, yet he's going to keep up with Minato no problem? The portrayal was clear there

Minato's feats >> Kisame's 

Come talk to me when Kage level characters are saying Kisame is the greatest Shinobi of their lifetime and that they don't think he'll ever be surpassed


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

First, Kisame's stronger than Pain, then Kisame's faster than Raikage, then Kisame can evade the blast radius of Gai's Hirudora, and now Bee's faster than Minato (FTG).

Do these miscreants have no boundaries?


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## Troyse22 (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> then Kisame's faster than Raikage



For the record I never said that.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> For the record I never said that.



 Okay play boy, but your alt partner did.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 13, 2016)

Inb4 JuubiJin level Kisame


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## Ishmael (Nov 13, 2016)

It seems the itachi wanking is over and the era of kisame wanking is about to start .  Good lord.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Troyse22 (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Okay play boy, but your alt partner did.



Meh I wouldn't make an alt account, as most people on this forum know, I don't really care if people agree with my opinions or not. 

But you can feel free to think that, frankly this guy hasn't provided manga scans and is providing anime statements and feats only, so I'm only taking him half seriously.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Bruh....someone linked the page. You can clearly see B says Lariat then swings his arm at Sasuke and proceeds to state Sasuke dodged him. You saying B was hoping to hit Karin from dozens of meters away with the imaginary shockwave? Manga takes precedence over the anime
> 
> Kisame got shitblitzed by Naruto and was coughing up blood from a simple physical attack. They compared the blitz to Minato's own speed, not FTG, but his Shunshin. Kisame was in complete awe of Naruto's speed, yet he's going to keep up with Minato no problem? The portrayal was clear there
> 
> ...


1: either you're retarded or just ignore the anime/manga. Kisame wasn't aiming at sasuke need I say more? The video explain it if you don't agree then talk with the writer
2:when did naruto blitzed kisame?scan plz
3:that's edo kcm minato
4:tell when minato can throw kunai faster then bee throwing sword. Tell me when v2 speed = 1.5 bee
Tell me raikage > v2bee speed feats.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Okay play boy, but your alt partner did.


Oh classy ignorance. When did I state kisame is faster?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Troyse22 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 1: either you're retarded or just ignore the anime/manga. Kisame wasn't aiming at sasuke need I say more? The video explain it if you don't agree then talk with the writer
> 2:when did naruto blitzed kisame?scan plz
> 3:that's edo kcm minato
> 4:tell when minato can throw kunai faster then bee throwing sword. Tell me when v2 speed = 1.5 bee
> Tell me raikage > v2bee speed feats.



Anime feats are typically disregarded unless specified by the OP


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## Troyse22 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> Oh classy ignorance. When did I state kisame is faster?



It seems you were implying Kisames reaction speeds are on par with Minato.

I believe they're close but Kisame is not above Minato  in reactions.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> It seems you were implying Kisames reaction speeds are on par with Minato.
> 
> I believe they're close but Kisame is not above Minato  in reactions.


Ehh no I never said that. And kisame reaction is on par with minato.


Troyse22 said:


> Anime feats are typically disregarded unless specified by the OP


I don't think it matter because that moment in episode is exact same as manga.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> Oh classy ignorance. When did I state kisame is faster?



 You insinuated that he was based on the fact that Kisame evaded someone who you misconceived as Raikage's superior in speed.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> You insinuated that he was based on the fact that Kisame evaded someone who you misconceived as Raikage's superior in speed.


1: v2bee >= raikage. Base bee was able to catch  raikage punch from far away or little far away feel the side effects of the gates
V1.5 bee speed is equal to raikage as shown in this scan


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 1: v2bee >= raikage. Base bee was able to do this to raikage feel the side effects of the gates
> V1.5 bee speed is equal to raikage as shown in this scan



1. Okay and Suigetsu intercepted Bee. What's your point?
2. Nope, it was a coordinated assault.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> 1. Okay and Suigetsu intercepted Bee. What's your point?
> 2. Nope, it was a coordinated assault.


You know my point. Bee was able to catch raikage punch form far away when raikage almost punch naruto in the face
2:Except is not


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> You know my point. Bee was able to catch raikage punch form far away when raikage almost punch naruto in the face
> 2:Except is not



1. Still an interception feat ---> Means nothing, sorta how Suigetsu intercepting Raikage and Bee means nothing as well, only that he can respond to their speed.
2. It was because it's the Double Lariat which requires a synchronized attack to behead their opponent. It'd literally be irrational given the context of the situation.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 1: either you're retarded or just ignore the anime/manga. Kisame wasn't aiming at sasuke need I say more? The video explain it if you don't agree then talk with the writer
> 2:when did naruto blitzed kisame?scan plz
> 3:that's edo kcm minato
> 4:tell when minato can throw kunai faster then bee throwing sword. Tell me when v2 speed = 1.5 bee
> Tell me raikage > v2bee speed feats.


Oh the irony. You're delusional if you think he wasn't aiming at Sasuke. For the millionth time, B admitted himself that Sasuke dodged him. But apparently B feels the need to enter V1 and use Lariat to kill Karin? Kage level Karin. News to me

Link removed
Link removed

Using your logic, V1 Raikage is >> V1.5 B. They reached Kisame at the same exact time, but Ay was a lot farther away when they took off

Reactions: Agree 1


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> 1. Still an interception feat ---> Means nothing, sorta how Suigetsu intercepting Raikage and Bee means nothing as well, only that he can respond to their speed.
> 2. It was because it's the Double Lariat which requires a synchronized attack to behead their opponent. It'd literally be irrational given the context of the situation.


Nice denied right there.and except is not.prove that it is
2:so your point? Bee speed still equal to raikage as shown in scan.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Oh the irony. You're delusional if you think he wasn't aiming at Sasuke. For the millionth time, B admitted himself that Sasuke dodged him. But apparently B feels the need to enter V1 and use Lariat to kill Karin? Kage level Karin. News to me
> 
> Link removed
> Link removed
> ...


Wow taking my words out of context. You need to chill down accept you got destroyed
1 delusional wanker.when did bee admited sasuke dodge him? Either  you don't bother to read the manga/anime or ignore the manga/anime.
2: no. he enter v1 because he was having torouble with them.
Conclusion: worst debater I ever meet.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> Nice denied right there.and except is not.prove that it is
> 2:so your point? Bee speed still equal to raikage as shown in scan.



1. Yeah, it's an interception feat. 
2. They had to work in tandem to use the Double Lariat, therefore, Raikage was forced to slow down or else Raikage would've intercepted Kisame before Bee did.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> 1. Yeah, it's an interception feat.
> 2. They had to work in tandem to use the Double Lariat, therefore, Raikage was forced to slow down or else Raikage would've intercepted Kisame before Bee did.


Still waiting for proof
2: prove raikage is forced to slow down instead of their speed equal as shown in scan


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> Still waiting for proof
> 2: prove raikage is forced to slow down instead of their speed equal as shown in scan



1. Bee *intercepted* Raikage out of thin air. That's all you need to know. 
2. I just proved it earlier.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> Wow taking my words out of context. You need to chill down accept you got destroyed
> 1 delusional wanker.when did bee admired sasuke dodge him? Either  you don't bother to read the manga/anime or ignore the manga/anime.
> 2: no. he enter v1 because he was having torouble with them.
> Conclusion: worst debater I ever meet.


Link removed

Your second point literally makes no sense. V1 Raikage crossed more ground than V1 B and yet they still reached Kisame at the same exact time. That would mean V1 Ay's speed > V1 B's right? And of course you don't reply to Kisame getting blitzed. 

You've been proven wrong countless times and you're using the anime as your source instead of the manga. At this point I just think it's funny to watch you say stupid shit. You sound like you're twelve 


Please go make a Minato vs Kisame thread and a poll. Guarantee you the overwhelming majority will say Minato bamflashes

Reactions: Like 1


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> 1. Bee *intercepted* Raikage out of thin air. That's all you need to know.
> 2. I just proved it earlier.


1 you agree bee was fast enough to catch raikage feat
2:except you didn't. You didn't provide a single scans of bee or raikage admit that raikage have to slow down instead of showing their speed equal.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

1. Since Suigetsu intercepted Bee, Suigetsu > Bee. Since Bee intercepted Raikage, Bee > Raikage. Therefore, because of the transitive property, if Suigetsu is faster than Bee who is faster than Raikage, then Suigetsu is also faster than Raikage. Do you agree with this?

 2. Common sense. Based on my premise, Raikage had to have slowed down because Raikage is faster than Bee. Why? Because Bee admitted that Raikage could dodge his speed with ease.

 Checkmate.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Link removed
> 
> Your second point literally makes no sense. V1 Raikage crossed more ground than V1 B and yet they still reached Kisame at the same exact time. That would mean V1 Ay's speed > V1 B's right? And of course you don't reply to Kisame getting blitzed.
> 
> ...


Lmao look what happen after bee toying with sasuke.yes sasuke dodge it but that's not what's bee aiming at.bee said "he's the first one that dodge" 
2: how is v1 > ay when they are same when scan shown. And reason why kisame get blitzed because he think he can use the jutsu before they reach him. Plain and simple
3: lmao except you didn't prove me wrong nor anyone in this thread.nice dream you had there


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> 1. Since Suigetsu intercepted Bee, Suigetsu > Bee. Since Bee intercepted Raikage, Bee > Raikage. Therefore, because of the transitive property, if Suigetsu is faster than Bee who is faster than Raikage, then Suigetsu is also faster than Raikage. Do you agree with this?
> 
> 2. Common sense. Based on my premise, Raikage had to have slowed down because Raikage is faster than Bee. Why? Because Bee admitted that Raikage could dodge his speed with ease.
> 
> Checkmate.


1:except that's different. Are you retarded? Did bee  charge at him at raikage speed? Nope
2 you lack of common sense. You denied the manga scan.and I'm still waiting proof.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 1:except that's different. Are you retarded? Did bee  charge at him at raikage speed? Nope
> 2 you lack of common sense. You denied the manga scan.and I'm still waiting proof.



1. Manga proof that Bee wasn't using his full speed when Bee was trying to kill Sasuke like Raikage was against Naruto. 
2. Never denied it because I actually agreed that they intercepted Kisame simultaneously. How is that proof that Bee kept up with Raikage?


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> 1. Since Suigetsu intercepted Bee, Suigetsu > Bee. Since Bee intercepted Raikage, Bee > Raikage. Therefore, because of the transitive property, if Suigetsu is faster than Bee who is faster than Raikage, then Suigetsu is also faster than Raikage. Do you agree with this?
> 
> 2. Common sense. Based on my premise, Raikage had to have slowed down because Raikage is faster than Bee. Why? Because Bee admitted that Raikage could dodge his speed with ease.
> 
> Checkmate.


KCM Naruto reacted & dodged Ei's full speed, but you've argued KCM Naruto has poor reaction speed on multiple occasions @UchihaX28

Checkmate. 

Interception feats have merit, like when SM Naruto intercepted Asura Path and slammed a senpo rasengan into his back without a counter reaction.

Or when Preta Path intercepts a FRS when he wasn't even in SM Naruto's view for roughly all of the technique's development, and he got there so quickly that Naruto didn't even sense it (confused as to why the path was currently alive).

After Suigetsu intercepted Killer Bee & Raikage & blew Tobi's face off, it became pretty clear that the author wanted Suigetsu to be seen as a notable speedster, otherwise why write him doing it at all. 

I'm not so sure he should be used as a "But Suigetsu intercepted him... Come on..." kind of a character


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> 1. Manga proof that Bee wasn't using his full speed when Bee was trying to kill Sasuke like Raikage was against Naruto.
> 2. Never denied it because I actually agreed that they intercepted Kisame simultaneously. How is that proof that Bee kept up with Raikage?


He wasn't  going to kill naruto but he want to beat him down.even if is that's v1.
2: oh not "denied" just your ignorance. So bee v1.5 speed = raikage as shown in scan have nothing to do with keeping up with raikage.


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## Veracity (Nov 13, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> KCM Naruto reacted & dodged Ei's full speed, but you've argued KCM Naruto has poor reaction speed on multiple occasions @UchihaX28
> 
> Checkmate.
> 
> ...



Suigetsu a speedster? Lol come on let's be real.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> KCM Naruto reacted & dodged Ei's full speed, but you've argued KCM Naruto has poor reaction speed on multiple occasions @UchihaX28
> 
> Checkmate.



 We're not referring to reaction speed you silly goose. 



> Interception feats have some merit, like when SM Naruto intercepted Asura Path and slammed a senpo rasengan into his back without a counter reaction.



 Nope, interception feat until proven otherwise. 



> Or when Preta Path intercepts a FRS when he wasn't even in SM Naruto's view for roughly all of the technique's development, and he got there so quickly that Naruto didn't even sense it (confused as to why the path was currently alive).



 Interception feat, doesn't count. 



> After Suigetsu intercepted Killer Bee, Raikage & Tobi, it became pretty clear that the author wanted Suigetsu to be seen as a notable speedster.
> 
> I'm not so sure he should be used as a "But Suigetsu intercepted him... Come on..." kind of a character



 You're right, what was I thinking? It's evident that Suigetsu's faster than Raikage cuz he could intercept him.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> We're not referring to reaction speed you silly goose.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1:except it does count. 
2 pure ignorance again. 8 tails didn't  even move his feet when suggests intercept him.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> Lmao look what happen after bee toying with sasuke.yes sasuke dodge it but that's not what's bee aiming at.bee said "he's the first one that dodge"
> 2: how is v1 > ay when they are same when scan shown. And reason why kisame get blitzed because he think he can use the jutsu before they reach him. Plain and simple
> 3: lmao except you didn't prove me wrong nor anyone in this thread.nice dream you had there


You can't honestly think B would enter V1 and use Lariat vs fodder Karin. That would be like Naruto entering RSM and using a Bijuudama vs Sakura 

You're just saying random stuff. Ay is visibly further away from Kisame than B. So how was their speed equal? And you continue to indicate that you've never read the manga. That wasn't even Kisame there, he was already inside Samehada 

Kisame couldn't react to KCM Naruto's Shunshin, Minato's Shunshin was compared to his. Therefore; Kisame would be able to barely follow Minato's Shunshin at best. Minato's speed feats blow Kisame's out of the water(pun intended) tbh


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> He wasn't  going to kill naruto but he want to beat him down.even if is that's v1.
> 2: oh not "denied" just your ignorance. So bee v1.5 speed = raikage as shown in scan have nothing to do with keeping up with raikage.



1. Nope, we have manga scan of Raikage exclaiming, "I'm going to kill you!" I'm questioning where this nonexistent manga scan is that suggests that Raikage was trying not to kill him. Please provide manga scan. 
2. You're such a nasty woman for failing to notice that Raikage was farther away from Kisame than Bee was.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 1:except it does count.
> 2 pure ignorance again. 8 tails didn't  even move his feet when suggests intercept him.



1. No, it counts.
2. Lol and Raikage didn't even move his feet when Bee intercepted him. 

 Check and mate, you nasty miscreant.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 13, 2016)

> We're not referring to reaction speed you silly goose.


But.. you choose to ignore a clear reaction/shunshin feat of KCM Naruto.. but cannot acknowledge an interception feat that has merit for Suigetsu...

I'm sensing butt hurt 

You are being hypocritical my dear UchihaX28

Is it because you wanted Sasuke to end up with Karin, who Suigetsu hates?



> Nope, interception feat until proven otherwise.








> Interception feat, doesn't count.


Are you Icegaze's alt? 





> You're right, what was I thinking? It's evident that Suigetsu's faster than Raikage cuz he could intercept him.


Are you crazy?


I said it had merit, I didn't say he was faster than Raikage.

And I don't care who did


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> You can't honestly think B would enter V1 and use Lariat vs fodder Karin. That would be like Naruto entering RSM and using a Bijuudama vs Sakura
> 
> You're just saying random stuff. Ay is visibly further away from Kisame than B. So how was their speed equal? And you continue to indicate that you've never read the manga. That wasn't even Kisame there, he was already inside Samehada
> 
> Kisame couldn't react to KCM Naruto's Shunshin, Minato's Shunshin was compared to his. Therefore; Kisame would be able to barely follow Minato's Shunshin at best. Minato's speed feats blow Kisame's out of the water(pun intended) tbh


Lmao when did I said bee to v1 because of that girl? Clearly bee was having trouble with "them" when he wasn't v1,5
2:again prove that I'm denying stuff instead of bullshting,
3: you'Re right on that one. Raikage is little bit farer then bee, but doesn't Chang the fact that base bee catch charge raikage from far away
4:again prove naruto throwing speed is faster than bee.and that's do minato
5: get destroyed again


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> 1. No, it counts.
> 2. Lol and Raikage didn't even move his feet when Bee intercepted him.
> 
> Check and mate, you nasty miscreant.


Either you're trolling or just plain retard
1: except it does.it's still feats
1: plain ignorance.raikage was far away before he charge at naruto and bee catch it


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> But.. you choose to ignore a clear reaction/shunshin feat of KCM Naruto.. but cannot acknowledge an interception feat that has merit for Suigetsu...
> 
> I'm sensing butt hurt
> 
> ...



 Interception feats have no merit, so despite Raikage's approval of inferiority, it means nothing, total bullshit. 



>







> Are you Icegaze's alt?



 You can take a stab at it if you'd like. 





> Are you crazy?
> 
> 
> I said it had merit, I didn't say he was faster than Raikage.
> ...



 Nope, has no merit despite manga saying otherwise.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Interception feats have no merit, so despite Raikage's approval of inferiority, it means nothing, total bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's fucking feat. Wtf are you talking about? So feat doesn't count?


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> Either you're trolling or just plain retard
> 1: except it does.it's still feats
> 1: plain ignorance.raikage was far away before he charge at naruto and bee catch it



1. Honestly unsure of what you were referring to because you foolishly quoted the wrong post I presume. 
2. Nope, was right in his face. Why do you think Raikage told him to stand down and then initiated a preemptive strike? Because he wanted to get closer and convince Naruto to drop his guard. Now please provide the manga scan that Raikage moved his feet even though we only see Raikage leaning in for his attack:

 Link removed


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> It's fucking feat. Wtf are you talking about? So feat doesn't count?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> Lmao when did I said bee to v1 because of that girl? Clearly bee was having trouble with "them" when he wasn't v1,5
> 2:again prove that I'm denying stuff instead of bullshting,
> 3: you'Re right on that one. Raikage is little bit farwer then bee, but doesn't Chang the fact that base bee catch charge raikage from far away
> 4:again prove naruto throwing speed is faster than bee.and that's do minato
> 5: get destroyed again


You said yourself that, that attack was meant for Karin. So that means B was going to use a V1 Lariat on Karin. That would be beyond nonsensical

What does throwing speed have to do with anything? Kisame can't even react to the Shunshin Naruto used against him, which is on the same level as Minato's. 

Minato's feat of reacting to cqc Kamui >> any speed feat Kisame displayed
Outpacing V2 Ay's hand speed >> anything Kisame has done
Crossing Konoha before a Bijuudama can finish being charged >> Kisame's speed feats
Reaching the battlefield before the the other Hokage >> anything speed related Kisame has shown 

Name one speed feat Kisame has that is superior to any of the Minato ones above


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> 1. Honestly unsure of what you were referring to because you foolishly quoted the wrong post I presume.
> 2. Nope, was right in his face. Why do you think Raikage told him to stand down and then initiated a preemptive strike? Because he wanted to get closer and convince Naruto to drop his guard. Now please provide the manga scan that Raikage moved his feet even though we only see Raikage leaning in for his attack:
> 
> Link removed


Wow purely ignorance strike again
1: so that's your way of saying " you proved me wrong"
2:his feet doesn't but his punch does.and he catched raikage punch 2 times


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## Ishmael (Nov 13, 2016)

This thread turned out to be nice. Sumrock, Uchihax28 and jackaintinthebox is very interesting and entertaining.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

1. Because all of your "arguments" are erroneous assumptions. 
2. Okay, his feet didn't move, so the interception feat is bullshit.

 I accept your concession now.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Interception feats have no merit, so despite Raikage's approval of inferiority, it means nothing, total bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you denying the fact that KCM Naruto has *great* reaction speed? 

Or more accurately, greater speed than the Raikage overall, seeing as he avoided his speed?


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> You said yourself that, that attack was meant for Karin. So that means B was going to use a V1 Lariat on Karin. That would be beyond nonsensical
> 
> What does throwing speed have to do with anything? Kisame can't even react to the Shunshin Naruto used against him, which is on the same level as Minato's.
> 
> ...


Just because he fucking power up doesn't mean he's using for Karin.he's aiming at Karin,clearly shown in manga and anime
2: holy shit the downplaying is real here. When did kisame not react to shundhin naruto feat? Are you out of your mind?
3:again post scans instead of bullshting.and yet look how long it took to Tobi teleported another person.like wat 3 second where clocked bee took like under 1 second
4:kisame reaction feats => minato.
5:yea using teleportation jutsu crossing konoha is not hard and a good feat.
6: I proved you wrong again.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> 1. Because all of your "arguments" are erroneous assumptions.
> 2. Okay, his feet didn't move, so the interception feat is bullshit.
> 
> I accept your concession now.


1:still count as feat
2: except his feet does move when raikage about to punch naruto in he air.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 1:still count as feat
> 2: except his feet does move when raikage about to punch naruto in he air.



1. Okay, still don't know what you're talking about. 
2. Okay, we weren't scrutinizing and debating about that instance, so this is irrelevant to the discussion.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Are you denying the fact that KCM Naruto has *great* reaction speed?
> 
> Or more accurately, greater speed than the Raikage overall, seeing as he avoided his speed?



 No, I'm saying that KCM Naruto has fodder ass, bullshit reaction speed. 

 Raikage is faster than KCM Naruto despite what the manga has to say about it.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> No, I'm saying that KCM Naruto has fodder ass, bullshit reaction speed.
> 
> Raikage is faster than KCM Naruto despite what the manga has to say about it.


Oh, that must mean that the Raikage (who's full speed Naruto avoided with ease) has even more fodder ass, bullshit reaction speed.

Suigetsu (not fodder) > Raikage (fodder) in speed

Confirmed by UchihaX28


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> 1. Okay, still don't know what you're talking about.
> 2. Okay, we weren't scrutinizing and debating about that instance, so this is irrelevant to the discussion.


1: intercept feats = feats. Plain and simple
2:how is irrelevant? He was able to go to there and catch raikage punch after he's moving his fist


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Oh, that must mean that the Raikage (who's full speed Naruto avoided with ease) has even more fodder ass, bullshit reaction speed.
> 
> Suigetsu (not fodder) > Raikage (fodder) in speed
> 
> Confirmed by UchihaX28



Nope, Suigetsu is fodder too.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> Just because he fucking power up doesn't mean he's using for Karin.he's aiming at Karin,clearly shown in manga and anime
> 2: holy shit the downplaying is real here. When did kisame not react to shundhin naruto feat? Are you out of your mind?
> 3:again post scans instead of bullshting.and yet look how long it took to Tobi teleported another person.like wat 3 second where clocked bee took like under 1 second
> 4:kisame reaction feats => minato.
> ...


You're trolling is supposed to be improving not getting worse. Already posted the scan of Naruto blitzing Kisame, not doing it a third time. You didn't name a single feat of Kisame's that is better than any one of the Minato ones I named. Good job buddy

You should take your brilliance to the Tobi/Minato vs Kisame thread. Your boy needs your support, everyone in the thread agreed Kisame gets trashed


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Nope, Suigetsu is fodder too.


Based on what?

Your opinion?

Ahahaha.. oh UchihaX28, we've already established how hypocritical your opinion can be. 

It can't be trusted


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 1: intercept feats = feats. Plain and simple
> 2:how is irrelevant? He was able to go to there and catch raikage punch after he's moving his fist



1. Nope, feats =/= interception feats because it doesn't have the word "interception" preceding it. 
2. He didn't move his feet which you mistakenly admitted was a necessity. You wanna take back what you said?


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Based on what?



 Logical power-scaling.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> You're trolling is supposed to be improving not getting worse. Already posted the scan of Naruto blitzing Kisame, not doing it a third time. You didn't name a single feat of Kisame's that is better than any one of the Minato ones I named. Good job buddy
> 
> You should take your brilliance to the Tobi/Minato vs Kisame thread. Your boy needs your support, everyone in the thread agreed Kisame gets trashed


your intelligent is suppose to increase not decrease.
1: except i did multiple times. dodge bee charge energy sword and after that he dodge charged bee. and able to keep up with clocked bee.
2:you should watch tobi vs minato episdoe/manga. see how long does it took for tobi to teleport another person to another dimension.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> 1. Nope, feats =/= interception feats because it doesn't have the word "interception" preceding it.
> 2. He didn't move his feet which you mistakenly admitted was a necessity. You wanna take back what you said?


1: except it does. that's what we called "different field feats". block feats = feats, strength feats = feats. intercept feats = feats.
2:when did i said his feet move? i said charge not his feet move.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Logical power-scaling.


He fought Killer Bee, Raikage 4, Raikage 5 & Tobi and survived


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> He fought Killer Bee, Raikage 4, Raikage 5 & Tobi and survived



Kakuzu fought Hashirama and survived. It ain't mean jack shit, play boy.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 1: except it does. that's what we called "different field feats". block feats = feats, strength feats = feats. intercept feats = feats.
> 2:when did i said his feet move? i said charge not his feet move.



1. Bogus term you just made up. 
2. Great and you also stated that Suigetsu's interception feat was invalidated by the fact that Bee didn't move his feet, did you not?


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> 1. Bogus term you just made up.
> 2. Great and you also stated that Suigetsu's interception feat was invalidated by the fact that Bee didn't move his feet, did you not?


1: fact that i just stated*
2: ehh i said it was invalid because he didn't "even move his feet" nor his punch while bee was able to go to there and catch raikage punch after he's moving his fist.
3: again either you're torlling or plain ignorant


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Kakuzu fought Hashirama and survived. It ain't mean jack shit, play boy.


But... you didn't say Kakuzu was fodder...

So that's a poor argument.. 

Plus he's in Akatsuki so he couldn't ever be considered fodder 

Plus that was a failed assassination attempt.. not a battle.. and certainly not on an on panel battle like Suigetsu against Killer Bee, Raikage 4, Raikage 5, & Tobi


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 1: fact that i just stated*
> 2: ehh i said it was invalid because he didn't* "even move his feet"* nor his punch while He was able to go to there and catch raikage punch after he's moving his fist.
> 3: again either you're torlling or plain ignorant



1. Fact that cannot be proven. 
2. 2nd part makes no sense and the bold was all I needed to know.

 I accept your concession. 

3. You can take a stab at it if you'd like.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> But... you didn't say Kakuzu was fodder...
> 
> So that's a poor argument..
> 
> ...



All of that doesn't matter when you're trolling.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> 1. Fact that cannot be proven.
> 2. 2nd part makes no sense and the bold was all I needed to know.
> 
> I accept your concession.
> ...


1: it's fact. so i don't need to prove it. the fact that you "called" feat prove that im right
2c make no sense to you. bee catch charge raikage punch. plain and simple


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 13, 2016)

@3sumrock

 Lol, I'm done trolling now. You put up a very hard easy fight.


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## 3sumrock (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> @3sumrock
> 
> Lol, I'm done trolling now. You put up a very hard easy fight.


sure. Because ere's no way that your ignorance can be that's high


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 13, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> All of that doesn't matter when you're trolling.




I'm appalled

I expected more from you TrollUchihaX28

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 14, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> your intelligent is suppose to increase not decrease.
> 1: except i did multiple times. dodge bee charge energy sword and after that he dodge charged bee. and able to keep up with clocked bee.
> 2:you should watch tobi vs minato episdoe/manga. see how long does it took for tobi to teleport another person to another dimension.


Only attack he ever full on dodged was the pencil B threw. Looking back at the fight, it's actually mentioned that B was still casual until he went V2. So congrats, Kisame's best speed feat is reacting to casual V1 B. 

One panel. Obito activated Kamui in one panel, and Minato would've been sucked up in the next had he not teleported away. That was their first exchange btw, so Minato reacted to Kamui with no knowledge in that instance.

Minato's reaction speed > Kisame's 
Minato's movement speed >> Kisame's

Reactions: Agree 2


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## 3sumrock (Nov 14, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Only attack he ever full on dodged was the pencil B threw. Looking back at the fight, it's actually mentioned that B was still casual until he went V2. So congrats, Kisame's best speed feat is reacting to casual V1 B.
> 
> One panel. Obito activated Kamui in one panel, and Minato would've been sucked up in the next had he not teleported away. That was their first exchange btw, so Minato reacted to Kamui with no knowledge in that instance.
> 
> ...


1: it was charged energy pencil or sword.and your forgot when kisame block v1.5 bee. When he react to v2bee, when he counter v2 bee
2:again look how long does it took for tobi to teleport another person,and minato know it. After tobi failed, minato stated that tobi teleportation is Betternet than him.
3: kisame  reaction speed = minato
4: minato doesn't even have impressive speed feat


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## Lord Aizen (Nov 14, 2016)

LAZLOLAZZING said:


> It seems the itachi wanking is over and the era of kisame wanking is about to start .  Good lord.



itachi wank has been gone for awhile. it went from guy wank, to kakashi wank week a couple weeks go now kisame wank and spite threads

Reactions: Funny 2


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## The_Conqueror (Nov 14, 2016)

3sumrock said:


> 2:again look how long does it took for tobi to teleport another person and minato know it.


Minato has one of the best reactions in the entire series. He reacted to a kamui without having knowledge on it.


> 3: kisame reaction speed = minato



*Spoiler*: __ 




Reacting to Ays full speed 
Reacting to 5th stage of seizko

Kisame  






> 4: minato doesn't even have impressive speed feat





professor83 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Gohara (Nov 14, 2016)

*More Powerful Than*

Mei.
The Third Kazekage.
Hidan.
Zetsu.
Deidara.
Konan.
Kakuzu.
Rasa.
Gaara.
Sasori.

*Around As Powerful As*

4th Great Ninja World War Arc Sakura.
Tsunade.

*Weaker Than*

Prime Onoki.
The Third Raikage.
Gengetsu.
A.
Muu.
Obito.
Prime Sarutobi.
Minato.
4th Great Ninja World War Arc Kakashi.
Hashirama.
Tobirama.
Nagato.
Itachi.

Of course, this is all just IMO.


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## Ishmael (Nov 14, 2016)

Lord Aizen said:


> itachi wank has been gone for awhile. it went from guy wank, to kakashi wank week a couple weeks go now kisame wank and spite threads



Kisame's wankers have been lurking for a while always popping up every now and then but now they're here... And they're here to stay.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Troyse22 (Nov 14, 2016)

Lord Aizen said:


> itachi wank has been gone for awhile. it went from guy wank, to kakashi wank week a couple weeks go now kisame wank and spite threads



Itachi wank died about 2 months ago....then Minato and Tobirama wank took over.....then Kakashi wank for like a week.

But I consider myself the strongest, RATIONAL supporter of Kisame on these forums, and even i'm considering 3sumrocks points a little bit out there.

One thing I have a problem with @3sumrock is do you have anything do justify Minatos and Kisames reaction speeds are equal?

I mean, Minato had time to throw a Kunai into the air and teleport with Hiraishin when V2 Ay was blitzing him, that requires very good reaction speed. I understand Kisame has great reaction speeds, due to being a master swordsman, it's practically a requirement. He was able to dodge and counter a 3 way assault casually, only getting a small cut on his arm/shoulder.

He was also able to block a speed blitz by V2 Bee.

But you raise an interesting point, there's nothing indicating the Raikage has to slow down for Lariat. But see with that logic, then the kids who were training to become "Bee" are just as fast as Ay. 


I certainly can't see Minato putting Kisame down, but I think Minato edges out Kisame SLIGHTLY in reaction speeds, due to the impressive feat that is Minato's reacting to V2 Ays speedblitz.


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## Icegaze (Nov 14, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> No, he kills Danzo prior to the seal brace being unlocked and removed.
> 
> Samehada cuts through Jinton as it cut through a gigantic fireball and absorbed trickling lightning & highly dense bijuu chakra simultaneously.
> 
> Daikodan one shots as soon as Onoki flies out of range of Kisame's normal techniques, if he stays near or at the ground he gets run down and slaughtered by Kisame.



 so you think danzo can't remove his braces  before kisame kills him
Honestly can't believe that 

Can't danzo just retreat long enough to remove his braces ?

 samehada has neither the feats or hype to absorb jinton
Though on the basis of complaining after absorbing fodder fire based on your flawed logic might as well claim samehada can absorb bijuudama 


Daikodan has no feats or hype to suggest it's something onoki couldn't simply move away from 

Or lol counter with jinton 
Which has both the feats and hype to by pass all of kisame techniques


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## Ayala (Nov 14, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Who is the weakest that beats him without his blade, in your opinion?
> 
> Because from what I'm hearing you're implying a shinobi that pushed Might Gai to the 7th Gate without his blade is somehow weak as shit.
> 
> ...



You got that wrong, Gai went seven gates to be able to hit a larger area, because the sharks were too many. Don't forget they were at open sea. 6 gates Gai already stomped Kisame with Samehada.


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## Ryuzaki (Nov 14, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Don't even care if it's bait, I can substantiate my opinions, unlike a good portion of some of these mongoloids that bait me.
> 
> Akatsuki:
> War Arc Obito
> ...





Above Nagato/Pain, Itachi, Minato, Tobirama, Jiraiya, KCM/EMS Sasuke and Sage Naruto.

Wow, the delusions are real out here.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Dislike 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Nov 14, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Minato edges out Kisame SLIGHTLY in reaction speeds,


Uhhhhhhh... its a tad more than SLIGHTLY...

Kisame got lolblitzed by a fresh KCM Naruto who had yet to surpass to V2 raikages speed, whos full speed btw, minato can casually react to at point blank range, throw a kunai, dodge, and counterattack and this was the very first time they met in battle. Minato also casually dodged A's full speed a second time, and then proceeded to make a career out of humiliating both A and his brother considering they never once defeated him and the raikage himself still wanks minato over a decade after his death.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 14, 2016)

oetsuthebest said:


> You got that wrong, Gai went seven gates to be able to hit a larger area, because the sharks were too many. Don't forget they were at open sea. 6 gates Gai already stomped Kisame with Samehada.


I asked you question, who is the weakest that you think beats Kisame without his blade?

Kisame pushed him into the 7th Gate. Name another shinobi "not worth mentioning" that would do that.

He entered the 6th Gate to release Morning Peacock against the 1,000 sharks. He entered the 7th gate to utilize Afternoon Tiger against Daikodan.

6th Gate Gai never stomped Kisame, *he* was nearly stomped by Kisame, hence opening the 7th gate.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 14, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> so you think danzo can't remove his braces  before kisame kills him
> Honestly can't believe that
> 
> Can't danzo just retreat long enough to remove his braces ?
> ...


I can, he needed his bodyguards to job Obito while he was undoing it.

Against Kisame, a powerful fast shinobi with lake level attacks with hundreds of meters of range he won't get the time to undo it by himself.

Jinton isn't close to bijuudama in power. Stop overexaggerating.

Samehada already cut through a fireball before it even arrived at Killer Bee, and absorbed trickling lightning & splores of bijuu chakra simultaneously so fast that Killer Bee wasn't even aware what happened.

Jinton being a combination of 3 elements doesn't make it more difficult to absorb. It's still just a nature transformation. Bijuu chakra is as extraordinary as chakra can get, and the blade had no issue absorbing massive portions of it in the blink of an eye while licking up lightning as a bonus.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 14, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> I asked you question, who is the weakest that you think beats Kisame without his blade?



I assume it talking to someone I have on my ignore, or ur just not quoting who ur talking to.

But it seems like an interesting question.


Personally I think he could beat he could still beat the likes of War arc oro with ET restricted, Itachi with genjutsu restricted

The strongest unrestricted shinobi he beats is probably the likes of War arc Kakashi pre DMS, Kakuzu, Deidara etc


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## Lord Aizen (Nov 14, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Itachi wank died about 2 months ago....then Minato and Tobirama wank took over.....then Kakashi wank for like a week.
> 
> But I consider myself the strongest, RATIONAL supporter of Kisame on these forums, and even i'm considering 3sumrocks points a little bit out there.



the Minato wank comes and goes, i see it more than itachi wank. Then theres the itachi haters that think people are wanking itachi when its not.

i see your points, i get a lot of your points but some go overboard, we all go overboard sometimes.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 14, 2016)

Lord Aizen said:


> the Minato wank comes and goes, i see it more than itachi wank. Then theres the itachi haters that think people are wanking itachi when its not.
> 
> i see your points, i get a lot of your points but some go overboard, we all go overboard sometimes.



I'll consider the forums full of Minato wankers until people acknowledge that Itachi beats Minato.

Anyways, I don't think my opinions go overboard


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## Lord Aizen (Nov 14, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> I'll consider the forums full of Minato wankers until people acknowledge that Itachi beats Minato.
> 
> Anyways, I don't think my opinions go overboard



I consider the two equals 50/50 chance of winning for both.

of course you don't but everybody on this forum has gone overboard myself included


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## Ryuzaki (Nov 14, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> I asked you question, who is the weakest that you think beats Kisame without his blade?
> 
> Kisame pushed him into the 7th Gate. Name another shinobi "not worth mentioning" that would do that.
> 
> ...


Kisame was hopped up on Gyuuki's bijuu chakra though, we've already seen what Kurama's chakra did for several people. I can't imagine the same principle wouldn't apply to Gyuuki's chakra at least to some sort of extent.

Unless the author said something refuting this.

As I remember 6th Gated Gai was far too fast for Kisame to handle before (even in his Shouten version), his physical stats and characteristics were the same.

Reactions: Like 1


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## 3sumrock (Nov 14, 2016)

Ryuzaki said:


> Kisame was hopped up on Gyuuki's bijuu chakra though, we've already seen what Kurama's chakra did for several people. I can't imagine the same principle wouldn't apply to Gyuuki's chakra at least to some sort of extent.
> 
> Unless the author said something refuting this.
> 
> As I remember 6th Gated Gai was far too fast for Kisame to handle before (even in his Shouten version), his physical stats and characteristics were the same.


I feel you read manga again guy never blitzed or too fast for kisame. In fact their fight is so short that it didn't even show guy using his speed feat


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 14, 2016)

Ryuzaki said:


> Kisame was hopped up on Gyuuki's bijuu chakra though, we've already seen what Kurama's chakra did for several people. I can't imagine the same principle wouldn't apply to Gyuuki's chakra at least to some sort of extent.
> 
> Unless the author said something refuting this.
> 
> As I remember 6th Gated Gai was far too fast for Kisame to handle before (even in his Shouten version), his physical stats and characteristics were the same.


This is something I've pointed out throughout the years, very few debaters seem to accept it, so I've abandonded that and the version of Kisame I'm talking about here is the one where most think he can use even Waterdome without Killer Bee's magnificent chakras.

The speed never really became an issue for Kisame, as he quickly went on the move to destroy him with his long range attacks and it became a nuker's battle.

Normally, Gai's speed would be a huge issue for Kisame.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 14, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> This is something I've pointed out throughout the years, very few debaters seem to accept it, so I've abandonded that and the version of Kisame I'm talking about here is the one where most think he can use even Waterdome without Killer Bee's magnificent chakras.
> 
> The speed never really became an issue for Kisame, as he quickly went on the move to destroy him with his long range attacks and it became a nuker's battle.



Correct me if im wrong but do you think Kisame can't use Waterdome without Gyukis chakra?


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 15, 2016)

Kisame was trembling at the mere sight of the Hachibi's chakra and staggered when the Hachibi's chakra was significantly greater than expected. Kishimoto insinuated that Kisame grew stronger in proportion to the amount of chakra he consumes, so treating Kisame on steroids as his normal condition is preposterous.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Kisame was trembling at the mere sight of the Hachibi's chakra and staggered when the Hachibi's chakra was significantly greater than expected. Kishimoto insinuated that Kisame grew stronger in proportion to the amount of chakra he consumes, so treating Kisame on steroids as his normal condition is preposterous.



Samehada was excited, Kisame thought surprised Bee could control that much chakra without going insane.

At no point was Kisame trembling, even after he got his chest blown out, he taunted Bee, to imply he was scared of someone he low-mid diffed is preposterous.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Samehada was excited, Kisame thought surprised Bee could control that much chakra without going insane.
> 
> At no point was Kisame trembling, even after he got his chest blown out, he taunted Bee, to imply he was scared of someone he low-mid diffed is preposterous.



All right, I'll correct myself. Samehada was trembling with excitement, fervently awaiting the Bee's luscious chakra because it was out of this world. Samehada never adhered to Kisame's chakra the way he did with Bee's and Kisame's remark afterwards by declaring, "The stronger my opponent is, the stronger I become. This is why I've been known as the Bijuu w/o Tails," establishes that Kisame was at the pinnacle of his power and thus, the fight has just begun.


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## Icegaze (Nov 15, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> I can, he needed his bodyguards to job Obito while he was undoing it.
> 
> Against Kisame, a powerful fast shinobi with lake level attacks with hundreds of meters of range he won't get the time to undo it by himself.
> 
> ...



Fodder Katon is no where close in power to jinton stop exaggerating 

So in short samehada has neither feats or hype to absorb it 

Considering to do so he must make contact with something that can troll V3 susanoo instantly 

Most of kisame attacks won't be putting down danzo that quickly 

There is also nothing stopping danzo from using Baku to gulp the water kisame spits out thereby taking away field advantage 

Kisame hasn't shown any feats to assume he walks up to danzo and cuts him down


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## Icegaze (Nov 15, 2016)

Hilarious though that people think kisame can beat Minato

First off

1) Minato is physically faster than hebi sasuke by shit loads . MS sasuke can't even react to A while Minato physically can move to throw a Kunai

2) ninja have always thrown Kunai very fast . Check scans of ninja avoiding Kunai see how they didn't just lol side step it with enough distance to get out of hirashin range

3) kisame hand seals speed isn't all that fast

4) sasuke a slower entity than Minato could stop itachi a faster entity than kisame from
Forming seals

5) minaot has better reactions than kisame thus will attack first

6) he can throw his Kunai quicker than he can shunshin

7) the average man can throw a weapon quicker than usain bolt can run

8) that fight would be a repeat of sasuke vs deidara before C2 came out . Kisame won't be given the slightest chance to distance himself

9) kisame did not easily avoid bee tanto when he threw it . Minato who is physically faster should quite easily be able to repeat off the bat what bee did . Sadly Kunai close = blitz 

These factors all lead up to well before kisame can barf a lake he is marked and killed


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## Ayala (Nov 15, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> I asked you question, who is the weakest that you think beats Kisame without his blade?
> 
> Kisame pushed him into the 7th Gate. Name another shinobi "not worth mentioning" that would do that.
> 
> ...



Im not obliged to ask your question. 

Go read the manga, Kisame never even laid a finger in Gai, so him almost getting stomped is fantasy. Just like the other thing about Kisame pushing him to 7 gates. The manga explains why he went 7 gates. And last, Open sea.


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## Icegaze (Nov 15, 2016)

lol gai was never nearly stomped by kisame 
Kisame couldn't even manage to lay a finger on him 
Gai used gates and trolled 
Was a low diff battle 
There is just that much gap between gai and kisame 
There isn't anything kisame can do to prevent gai beating him 
If it's gai intention to beat kisame


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> lol gai was never nearly stomped by kisame
> Kisame couldn't even manage to lay a finger on him
> Gai used gates and trolled
> Was a low diff battle
> ...



Gai is Kisames counter, but Kisame can still beat more high tier opponents than Gai outside of the 8th gate.

Kisame is still above Gai by a pretty substantial margin outside of the 8th gate

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Icegaze (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Gai is Kisames counter, but Kisame can still beat more high tier opponents than Gai outside of the 8th gate.
> 
> Kisame is still above Gai by a pretty substantial margin outside of the 8th gate



I don't disagree with kisame possibly being able to take more opponents due to being more versatile 

The rest is just trolling


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> I don't disagree with kisame possibly being able to take more opponents due to being more versatile
> 
> The rest is just trolling



Pot calls kettle black.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 15, 2016)

7th Gate Gai blows Kisame out of the water in terms of speed and strength. Their range is similar, but versatility is the only advantage Kisame has. That versatility is supposed to make up for the huge gap in physical stats? I don't see it


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> 7th Gate Gai blows Kisame out of the water in terms of speed and strength. Their range is similar, but versatility is the only advantage Kisame has. That versatility is supposed to make up for the huge gap in physical stats? I don't see it



Base Gai and Base Kisame is a more fair comparison.

7th gates Gai is only fair if you compare him to Samehada merged into Kisame.

Kisamehada has better underwater speed, which is always Kisame's thing in battle as he can create his own water source with ease. The only thing you say that's right is 7th gates Gai strength is superior to Kisames, which isn't by much, as he wields Samehada as easily as Gai stands on his hands.

Kisame is superior in virtually every aspect bar strength, taijutsu and summons, since Kisame hasn't shown any summons, which kind of bugs me, you'd think he'd have some sort of great white shark type of summon. 

But Underwater speed, all ninjutsu, kenjutsu, stamina etc etc all go to Kisame.

Kisame has way more over Gai than just versatility, get out of your Gai loving bubble


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## Icegaze (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Pot calls kettle black.



 
Says the new iza of kisame
Pretty sure you both know each other

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> Says the new iza of kisame
> Pretty sure you both know each other



What's Iza and who are you talking about?


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Base Gai and Base Kisame is a more fair comparison.
> 
> 7th gates Gai is only fair if you compare him to Samehada merged into Kisame.
> 
> ...


Disagree with the majority of what you said, but aren't you supposed to be a Kisame diehard? Kisame used shark summons more than once. They were at least strong enough to rip him to shreds 

You wank Kisame like your life depends on it, yet you have the nerve to say someone is blinded by their love for a character? Even more funny considering I barely even like Gai


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Kisame used shark summons more than once. They were at least strong enough to rip him to shreds



Talking about a boss summon, like Kisames equivalent of Manda, Aoda, Bunta, Kichi, Katsuyu etc etc.

And I don't wank Kisame, I just fairly rate currently very underrated Shinobi.


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## Icegaze (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> What's Iza and who are you talking about?



was an orochimaru groupie, who got banned. you remind me of him however your chosen idol seems to be kisame
when one makes blanket statements such as kisame is far above gai overall or thinks somehow kisame a lackey of the akatsuki group who reported to nagato is somehow superior to nagato


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> was an orochimaru groupie, who got banned. you remind me of him however your chosen idol seems to be kisame
> when one makes blanket statements such as kisame is far above gai overall or thinks somehow kisame a lackey of the akatsuki group who reported to nagato is somehow superior to nagato



Not really, everyone in the Akatsuki had their reasons and beliefs for being there, it's not like members of the Akatsuki were forced to work for the Akatsuki bar maybe Sasori and Deidara.

Kisame's reason for being in the Akatsuki was he was tired of a world of lies and he wanted to have a place in the world.

How about you actually do research before you spew that kind of crap?


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## Icegaze (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Not really, everyone in the Akatsuki had their reasons and beliefs for being there, it's not like members of the Akatsuki were forced to work for the Akatsuki bar maybe Sasori and Deidara.
> 
> Kisame's reason for being in the Akatsuki was he was tired of a world of lies and he wanted to have a place in the world.
> 
> How about you actually do research before you spew that kind of crap?



that did not stop him from being a lackey and admitting inferiority to itachi. forget the jiriaya hype for a second and realize kisame blatantly said he is weaker than itachi. just saying

then we got portrayal showing nagato>>itachi


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> that did not stop him from being a lackey and admitting inferiority to itachi. forget the jiriaya hype for a second and realize kisame blatantly said he is weaker than itachi. just saying



retconned by Kisame's own feats and hype


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> retconned by Kisame's own feats and hype


Okay, I'm interested. What statements hype Kisame to be stronger than Jiraiya or Itachi or Minato?


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> What statements hype Kisame to be stronger than Jiraiya or Itachi or Minato?



Bijuu levels of Chakra.

Largest reserves by a substantial margin in all of the Akatsuki, an organization compromised only of elite shinobi.

Hes been called the Tailed Beast without a Tail, directly comparing him to a Bijuu is no small statement.

He low diffed a perfect Jin (mid diff if you wanna downplay it)

He has a jutsu that's literally infinite in power (Daikodan) so long as there's chakra to absorb, it will keep going, growing bigger and stronger.

He has nearly infinite stamina and chakra reserves (due to Samehada)


Those things put him above part 1 Sannin hype that was very obviously downplayed in P2, that also puts him above Itachi, a man who fell to his death at Hebi Sasuke's feet. A man who was "killed" three times by Kabuto.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 15, 2016)

Yondaime Raikage's reserves were said to be on par with the Bijuu as well. So Kisame's hype that puts him above the Sannin, Itachi and Minato is that he has massive amounts of chakra?

Ay received the same praise and he couldn't even beat Minato in a 2v1 with B on his side. Ay even flat out said he thought Minato was stronger than Kisame and B didn't disagree


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## Icegaze (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> retconned by Kisame's own feats and hype




what hype please show how dictates kisame> itachi. oh please do tell

newb MS sasuke fights bee, bee oh gosh second strongest i have ever fought. no such comment was made about kisame.
new MS sasuke<<itachi by a margin

not like bee even fought kisame all out, he faced a restricted bee. But hey wonder how itachi would deal with bee...oh no wait. KCM naruto who knows bee arsenal had something to say about that

if you are hit by tskuyomi or amaterasu you are toast. we already saw how bee had issues with amaterasu. sasuke went from a weakling to second strongest in 1 move. 

suuure kisame FEATS and HYPE implied he is above itachi


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> newb MS sasuke fights bee, bee oh gosh second strongest i have ever fought



Was before he fought Kisame



Icegaze said:


> no such comment was made about kisame.



Yeah Bee was too busy being slaughtered to say that.



Icegaze said:


> not like bee even fought kisame all out, he faced a restricted bee. But hey wonder how itachi would deal with bee...oh no wait. KCM naruto who knows bee arsenal had something to say about that



I've explained in another thread recently why going BM won't change the outcome of the battle.



Icegaze said:


> if you are hit by tskuyomi or amaterasu you are toast. we already saw how bee had issues with amaterasu. sasuke went from a weakling to second strongest in 1 move.



Just like how Kabuto was terrified of Itachi right?



Icegaze said:


> suuure kisame FEATS and HYPE implied he is above itachi



Maybe the energy you put into your sarcasm can be used in deleting the part of your sig that is "top 10 Naruto hotties", it's embarassing.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Yondaime Raikage's reserves were said to be on par with the Bijuu as well. So Kisame's hype that puts him above the Sannin, Itachi and Minato is that he has massive amounts of chakra?
> 
> Ay received the same praise and he couldn't even beat Minato in a 2v1 with B on his side. Ay even flat out said he thought Minato was stronger than Kisame and B didn't disagree



Okay here we go.

Kisame's durability also far exceeds the Sannin's.
Kisame's regen is infinite, Tsunade's isn't
Kisame would one shot SM Jiraiya with Daikodan.
Kisame would outlast Orochimaru (war arc ET restricted ofc)
Kisame would chakra whore off of P1 Edos.
Kisame rapes all of them in CQC.

Kisame is above Itachi in everything bar genjutsu, and Kisame has pretty substantial knowledge of Itachi's arsenal, everything but Susanoo. He would take great care not to look into Itachi's eyes. Samehada chops through Susanoo with laughable difficulty. Daikodan shreds Susanoo apart and 1 shots Itachi.


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## Icegaze (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Was before he fought Kisame
> 
> 
> 
> ...



point being after fighting kisame that still didnt change his mind as he made no comment on kisame abilities

lolz while restricted sure

yh except Bijuudama is something kisame has neither the feats or hype to deal with. sure BM wont change anything despite BM being>>>>>>>>>V2



still yet to explain the comical bias which allows you to think kisame>itachi. thats hugely unsubstantiated. 

lets see their hype jutsu with no feats daikodan vs yata. What ever you claim daikodan can absorb yata can reflect, neither have the feats of doing anything only hype

tskuyomi got hype repeated twice that it cant even be countered by partner method 

i could go on but by jutsu list alone its quite obvious itachi is superior


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## Icegaze (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Okay here we go.
> 
> Kisame's durability also far exceeds the Sannin's.
> Kisame's regen is infinite, Tsunade's isn't
> ...



kisame durability exceeds sanin however he is easier to put down than orochimaru who can simply barf a new body
orochimaru ET is infinite
Kisame would be one shotted by kebari senbon
orochimaru ET would outlast kisame
P1 edos will still not tire
kisame gets trolled by frog katas


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> kisame durability exceeds sanin however he is easier to put down than orochimaru who can simply barf a new body
> orochimaru ET is infinite



Samehada says hi.



Icegaze said:


> Kisame would be one shotted by kebari senbon






Icegaze said:


> orochimaru ET would outlast kisame
> P1 edos will still not tire



Doesn't matter, if Kisame just sits there chakra whoring off of P1 edos, he's going to be nearly invincible and his jutsus are going to be powerful beyond measure, Edo chakra is infinite, that means so is Kisame's stamina and chakra. Kisame will quickly realize edos don't die and he'll proceed to rape Orochimaru.

Without War Arc Edo Tensei, Orochimaru has NO way of putting Kisame down.


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## Icegaze (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Samehada says hi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



samehada can say hi, they say hi back. that cant put down ET

yes claiming a featless daikodan takes out jiriaya is as valid as saying kebari senbon takes kisame out

yes sure they can be powerful beyond measure that still wont help him put down bodies who never tire. 
yes raping oro doesnt release ET so the best kisame does there is draw

so good on kisame at least your fictional version the best he does against oro is draw


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> samehada can say hi, they say hi back. that cant put down ET
> 
> yes claiming a featless daikodan takes out jiriaya is as valid as saying kebari senbon takes kisame out
> 
> ...



The goal would be to beat Orochimaru, not the edos, nice try trying to cop out though 

Kisame kills Orochimaru (he wins at this point) he then majestically flies away into the sunset with the jutsu he used to escape turtle island.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Okay here we go.
> 
> Kisame's durability also far exceeds the Sannin's.
> Kisame's regen is infinite, Tsunade's isn't
> ...


Kisame doesn't have infinite chakra, so his regen is limited just as Tsunade's is. 

Daikodan obviously has it's limits. Not like it would be able to absorb and overpower Indra's Arrow for instance. While Jiraiya doesn't have that option, he can still try to dodge it. Minato would dodge it or warp it away with his barrier 

Huh? Itachi is smarter, has stronger Ninjutsu, is better with ninja tools and is faster. Samehada isn't busting Susano'o btw. Kirin >>> Samehada slashes. He'd have to absorb the chakra


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## Icegaze (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> The goal would be to beat Orochimaru, not the edos, nice try trying to cop out though
> 
> Kisame kills Orochimaru (he wins at this point) he then majestically flies away into the sunset with the jutsu he used to escape turtle island.



Edo is oro technique. no if oro technique kills kisame in the end then he didnt beat oro now did he  cute how common sense evades you

he didnt fly..try stick to facts if you can manage


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Kisame doesn't have infinite chakra, so his regen is limited just as Tsunade's is



Kisames Regen is infinite so long as his opponent has chakra, hes not limited to just his own massive chakra pool. He can also steal his opponents.



Jackalinthebox said:


> Daikodan obviously has it's limits. Not like it would be able to absorb and overpower Indra's Arrow for instance



I beg to differ, chakra is chakra and Daikodan absorbs it all. Including sage chakra, Rikudo chakra etc.



Jackalinthebox said:


> Huh? Itachi is smarter, has stronger Ninjutsu, is better with ninja tools and is faster. Samehada isn't busting Susano'o btw. Kirin >>> Samehada slashes. He'd have to absorb the chakra



Shuriken have never killed a shinobi above low tier lol, Itachi is not bringing Kisame Down with that, Kisame also rapes Itachi in CQC.

Kisame has a jutsu of infinite power and a jutsu that makes any battlefield his own personal ocean. Kisames Ninjutsu far exceeds Itachis.

Samehada absorbs chakra, Susanoo is a chakra construct, therefore a slash from Samehada rips Susanoo open and apart


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> Edo is oro technique. no if oro technique kills kisame in the end then he didnt beat oro now did he  cute how common sense evades you
> 
> he didnt fly..try stick to facts if you can manage



Edo's that old ass Hiruzen fought in CQC are not going to have a shot in hell at brining down the likes of Kisame...the fuck are you even talking about.


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## Icegaze (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Edo's that old ass Hiruzen fought in CQC are not going to have a shot in hell at brining down the likes of Kisame...the fuck are you even talking about.



After several days of pointless fighting sure they will
No reason why not 
That's the perk of having nothing better to do and being mindless as well as being immune to fatigué

Even if out of boredom kisame will give up 

Unless he can seal them he can't win


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Kisames Regen is infinite so long as his opponent has chakra, hes not limited to just his own massive chakra pool. He can also steal his opponents.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Even then, that's not infinite chakra. Not even close. Besides, he has to make cotact with the person or their Jutsu to absorb chakra 

You really think Daikodan > Indra's Arrow? I can't even. 


Really hope you're joking dude. Ten Daikodan wouldn't be enough to match Indra's Arrow, let alone one

Reactions: Like 1


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 15, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> Fodder Katon is no where close in power to jinton stop exaggerating
> 
> So in short samehada has neither feats or hype to absorb it
> 
> ...


Of course Katon doesn't have Jinton's power, but the reason I brought it up was to showcase that the blade can absorb chakra by cutting right through it.

No, contact isn't needed, Samehada already absorbed a fireball & bijuu chakra without making contact. 

Most of the attacks don't need to put Danzo down, only one is needed.

Depending on the location summoning Baku might not even be an option. More likely than not, under neutral conditions, Danzo won't get enough time to stop and summon Baku, who then begins sucking Kisame before he's too close to Danzo for that strategy to be liable as it would also suck him in. It's irrelevant anyway, he soars through his water being sucked up and releases 1,000 sharks in it's face when he arrives at Baku to collapse the summon, then sends them at Danzo.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Even then, that's not infinite chakra. Not even close. Besides, he has to make cotact with the person or their Jutsu to absorb chakra
> 
> You really think Daikodan > Indra's Arrow? I can't even.
> 
> ...



There's no indication that Daikodan has a limit, it's merely stated to grow stronger so long as there's chakra to absorb.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Theres a reason Kisame was killed off in a way that he couldn't be brought back as an Edo, he'd be the most influential Edo, rivaled only by Madara

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Theres a reason Kisame was killed off in a way that he couldn't be brought back as an Edo, he'd be the most influential Edo, rivaled only by Madara



 Had no issues reviving Nagato who is Kisame's equal.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Had no issues reviving Nagato who is Kisame's equal.



Living Kisame and Healthy Nagato are equals.


Edo Kisame would be a decent margin above Edo Nagato for obvious reasons.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Suoh (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Living Kisame and Healthy Nagato are equals.
> 
> 
> Edo Kisame would be a decent margin above Edo Nagato for obvious reasons.



This is about as factual as the statement " Sakura is a well-written female character who serves as an incredible role model for impressionable young girls"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Living Kisame and Healthy Nagato are equals.
> 
> 
> Edo Kisame would be a decent margin above Edo Nagato for obvious reasons.



Well, you can believe that if you want, but Jiraiya was also excluded from the War. Obviously, it wasn't because of strength and it certainly would be horrible narration for someone who had an honorable and insightful death a few chapters ago to return and likely get killed off immediately. Jiraiya and Kisame both received proper closure, forgiving themselves and finally acknowledging who they were before, so reanimating Kisame would be preposterous from a narrative standpoint.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> There's no indication that Daikodan has a limit, it's merely stated to grow stronger so long as there's chakra to absorb.


Kisame's A rank Jutsu isn't infinitely stronger than Samehada and on par with the Rinnegan's absorption abilities. That's just common sense. Obito and Madara didn't risk their lives and sanity for a Dojutsu with abilities weaker than those which Kisame used. 


Saying Daikodan can absorb Indra's Arrow is a nlf. It's exactly the same as Itachi wankers of the past claiming Yata Mirror can reflect any Jutsu including Juubidama's if need be

So I guess Yata Mirror vs Daikodan shatters the laws of physics and destroys the universe

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Kisame's A rank Jutsu isn't infinitely stronger than Samehada and on par with the Rinnegan's absorption abilities. That's just common sense. Obito and Madara didn't risk their lives and sanity for a Dojutsu with abilities weaker than those which Kisame used.
> 
> 
> Saying Daikodan can absorb Indra's Arrow is a nlf. It's exactly the same as Itachi wankers of the past claiming Yata Mirror can reflect any Jutsu including Juubidama's if need be
> ...



Yata has the hype to support the opinion that it can reflect Bijuudama

Yata vs Daikodan is not a topic I want to get into on my phone 



UchihaX28 said:


> Well, you can believe that if you want, but Jiraiya was also excluded from the War. Obviously, it wasn't because of strength and it certainly would be horrible narration for someone who had an honorable and insightful death a few chapters ago to return and likely get killed off immediately. Jiraiya and Kisame both received proper closure, forgiving themselves and finally acknowledging who they were before, so reanimating Kisame would be preposterous from a narrative standpoint.



Yes both acknowledged who they were and their deaths had meaning, but so did Zabuzas, and he was brought back. Your logic is disproven by canon.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Yes both acknowledged who they were and their deaths had meaning, but so did Zabuzas, and he was brought back. Your logic is disproven by canon.



 Zabuza didn't receive proper closure because Haku didn't get to experience Zabuza's heartfelt emotions.


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## Parallaxis (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Edo Kisame would be a decent margin above Edo Nagato for obvious reasons.


What? Infinite ST


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## The_Conqueror (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Theres a reason Kisame was killed off in a way that he couldn't be brought back as an Edo, he'd be the most influential Edo, rivaled only by Madara


New Solo King Revealed.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Yata has the hype to support the opinion that it can reflect Bijuudama
> 
> Yata vs Daikodan is not a topic I want to get into on my phone
> 
> ...


Even with Genjutsu restricted, Kisame still can't beat Itachi. Kisame isn't invincible 
"not molding"


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> What? Infinite ST



Literal planetary sized waterdome.

Literal daikodan spam against all enemies who use chakra based attacks, which is like 98% of the Narutoverse.

Edo Kisame would be quite a decent margin above Nagato.



UchihaX28 said:


> Zabuza didn't receive proper closure because Haku didn't get to experience Zabuza's heartfelt emotions.



I disagree, Zabuza was at peace with who he was, most of the Shinobi who were brought back had made peace with themselves and what their lives meant...look at Itachi.

Look at Nagato

both had proper closure and were still brought back, Kisame was killed off in a way he couldn't be brought back because he'd be the most influential edo bar Madara.



Jackalinthebox said:


> Even with Genjutsu restricted, Kisame still can't beat Itachi. Kisame isn't invincible



Kisame will stand so long as his opponents stand, his only counters are Taijutsu based strikes, on the same power level as Hirudora (to which Kisame was still ready to battle after received a direct hit by it) which only Gai can accomplish, or constant threat of poison (i've stipulated that Sasori and Kisame cause each other mutual death, despite Sasori being about 2 tiers below Kisame)

A totsuka blitz would be ooc for Itachi with just manga knowledge. It's also never noted that Itachi has any knowledge of Daikodan (much like it's never indicated Kisame has knowledge of Susanoo) so I could see Itachi trying to counter Daikodan with Amaterasu and getting blown to pieces.

Kisame low diffs Itachi with genjutsu restricted, even with genjutsu unrestricted, Kisame has in depth knowledge of Itachi and his MS arsenal and Sharingan arsenal (Susanoo excluded ofc) and would create his own water source and stay under it to keep himself safe from genjutsu while he slaughters Itachi with Suitons.

And it wouldn't be OOC for Kisame to create his own watersource at the beginning of a battle against Itachi, as that's his standard method of battle.

Sorry, but Kisame low diffs (mid diff at the absolute most) Itachi.

Kisame outclasses Itachi by a pretty substantial margin in everything bar Genjutsu.

Only way I see Kisame beating Sasori without dying is giving Kisame full knowledge.


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## Parallaxis (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Literal planetary sized waterdome.
> 
> Literal daikodan spam against all enemies who use chakra based attacks, which is like 98% of the Narutoverse.
> 
> ...


Planet


Troyse22 said:


> Literal planetary sized waterdome.
> 
> Literal daikodan spam against all enemies who use chakra based attacks, which is like 98% of the Narutoverse.
> 
> ...


Planetary ST then, repels Daikodan and Waterdome. CT gg


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> Planet
> 
> Planetary ST then, repels Daikodan and Waterdome. CT gg



We haven't seen Nagato spam ST even as an Edo, there's nothing indicating he can.


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## Parallaxis (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> We haven't seen Nagato spam ST even as an Edo, there's nothing indicating he can.


And there's nothing indicating he cant. I never said he would need to spam it, just use a decent sized ST to push Waterdome away.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Literal planetary sized waterdome.
> 
> Literal daikodan spam against all enemies who use chakra based attacks, which is like 98% of the Narutoverse.
> 
> ...


Your only argument for Kisame winning is him beating Itachi before he gets serious. Kisame is casual Itachi level. Full power Itachi trashes him with Totsuka Blade and trolls all his attacks with Yata Mirror 

Invincible people(Itachi) >>> people who aren't invincible(Kisame)


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 15, 2016)

@Troyse22

And yet there still some things that needed to be patched up. This was not the case with Jiraiya and Kisame and reanimating them solely for power is just a waste. Kishimoto clearly wanted to advance character development and address previous unresolved faults/issues which was embodied by Zabuza and Sasori, Zabuza who finally made amends for treating Haku as a weapon, and Sasori finally casting aside the ideology he had behind his obsession and conceit in possessing a puppet body and finally value himself as a human being who can pass on his accomplishments to a next generation.

There's literally not much that could've been done with Kisame from a narrative standpoint. Power was never an issue and was never alluded to other than Shisui.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Your only argument for Kisame winning is him beating Itachi before he gets serious. Kisame is casual Itachi level. Full power Itachi trashes him with Totsuka Blade and trolls all his attacks with Yata Mirror
> 
> Invincible people(Itachi) >>> people who aren't invincible(Kisame)



"Invincible" dies 2 seconds later.

"Invincible" gets killed by Kabuto 3 times.

And no, my argument is exactly what would happen if they faced off, to say itachi is just gonna LOLTOTSUKABLITZ at the beginning is a shit argument and makes me physically nauseated.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> @Troyse22
> 
> And yet there still some things that needed to be patched up. This was not the case with Jiraiya and Kisame and reanimating them solely for power is just a waste. Kishimoto clearly wanted to advance character development and address previous unresolved faults/issues which was embodied by Zabuza and Sasori, Zabuza who finally made amends for treating Haku as a weapon, and Sasori finally casting aside the ideology he had behind his obsession and conceit in possessing a puppet body and finally value himself as a human being who can pass on his accomplishments to a next generation.
> 
> There's literally not much that could've been done with Kisame from a narrative standpoint. Power was never an issue and was never alluded to other than Shisui.



Good points, Itachi had to resolve things with Sasuke.

But Nagato had no purpose and was revived solely for power. So were Kinkaku and Ginkaku.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> "Invincible" dies 2 seconds later.
> 
> "Invincible" gets killed by Kabuto 3 times.
> 
> And no, my argument is exactly what would happen if they faced off, to say itachi is just gonna LOLTOTSUKABLITZ at the beginning is a shit argument and makes me physically nauseated.


Did they bust Yata Mirror or resist Totsuka sealing? Nope. They're what makes him invincible

Didn't say he'd Totsuka Blitz in an IC fight or anything of the sort. I said Itachi at full power >>>>>>>>> Kisame at full power as per canon. Nice strawman though.

Physically nauseated because canon proves Itachi with Susano'o is factually stronger than Kisame and it hurts your feelings. It's okay, not everyone's favorite character can be as strong as Itachi


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## Troyse22 (Nov 15, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Did they bust Yata Mirror or resist Totsuka sealing? Nope. They're what makes him invincible
> 
> Didn't say he'd Totsuka Blitz in an IC fight or anything of the sort. I said Itachi at full power >>>>>>>>> Kisame at full power as per canon. Nice strawman though.
> 
> Physically nauseated because canon proves Itachi with Susano'o is factually stronger than Kisame and it hurts your feelings. It's okay, not everyone's favorite character can be as strong as Itachi



Semantics, Itachi is not invincible, as proven by the Kabuto fight. A living Itachi would've gotten raped by Kabuto with neg diff.

Kisame is above Itachi pretty respectably, but I can see i'm dealing with an Itachi fanboy, so my chances of getting that through to you, despite having substantiated my arguments earlier in this thread and in many threads and pms earlier this week, are very low.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Good points, Itachi had to resolve things with Sasuke.
> 
> But Nagato had no purpose and was revived solely for power. So were Kinkaku and Ginkaku.



 Yes, because they were half-assed characters. 

 On the contrary, Nagato had a purpose. His own ideology was imperative in Naruto's maturity and Nagato witnessing it first-hand enabled us as a reader see how Nagato was conducive in Naruto overcoming his hatred. Towards the end of the battle, Nagato gave Naruto a final proposition, to adhere to his ideology and follow a path that did away of Nagato's "trash". 

 Besides, he helped Itachi locate Kabuto's base.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 15, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Semantics, Itachi is not invincible, as proven by the Kabuto fight. A living Itachi would've gotten raped by Kabuto with neg diff.
> 
> Kisame is above Itachi pretty respectably, but I can see i'm dealing with an Itachi fanboy, so my chances of getting that through to you, despite having substantiated my arguments earlier in this thread and in many threads and pms earlier this week, are very low.


Sounds like you need to read the manga buddy. Like I said above; Itachi is only invincible when he has Susano'o up and Yata plus Totsuka activated. Nobody ever resisted Totsuka and nobody ever busted Yata. 

So be honest; can Kisame beat Itachi when he has Yata and Totsuka out? Nope. Kisame's only option would be to run away until Itachi runs out of chakra, but then he gets hit with Yasaka Magatama then Totsuka gg

Says the dude who vastly overrates Kisame, has a Kisame avatar and a Kisame sig. Itachi isn't even my favorite character. I like Minato and the Sauce more. Ironically enough, both are stronger than Kisame as well


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## The_Conqueror (Nov 15, 2016)

So Edo Kisame means planetary sized  waterdome 

That way Edo nagato should be able to do a planetary sized  shinra or chibaku
Madara should be able to do planetary sized sussanoo? 
Hashirama should have been able to do planetary level mokujin?
Wait we did not see that happen did we?

Manga clearly states that Edo form of character<Living form of character just that their chakra gets replenished fairly quick.

If we take a characters chakra in number let's say kisame has 5 chakra does not mean he can do a jutsu that requires 7 or 10 chakra.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 16, 2016)

The Edos maintain their living powerscale generally, only Tobirama, Madara & Hashirama were stated as weaker.

Had any of the other characters been weaker, it would have been pointed out in a sentence during the entire war.

That being said all of the other characters were able to perform at the level they could in their lives, with the ability of immortality/regeneration and inextinguishable chakra (not unlimited chakra).

Edo Kisame wouldn't be making a global waterdome, his waterdome would be the same size as his living self, the only difference is he'd be able to maintain it indefinitely because his chakra wouldn't extinguish.

If they had unlimited chakra you wouldn't have Gengetsu weakened when using Joki Boy or only a single Joki Boy clone for that matter, you wouldn't have had Tobirama limited to using only two kage bunshin while maintaining the kage barrier by his own admission, you wouldn't have had Mu being equaled out by Onoki in Jinton, and Kakuzu wouldn't have been defeated by a small group of low kage levels if he had the potential to produce planetary level elemental blasts.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Troyse22 (Nov 16, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> The Edos maintain their living powerscale generally, only Tobirama, Madara & Hashirama were stated as weaker.
> 
> Had any of the other characters been weaker, it would have been pointed out in a sentence during the entire war.
> 
> ...



Good point, but wouldn't Kisame replenish the chakra hes using for Waterdome while hes creating since it regenerates nearly instantly?


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## Matty (Nov 16, 2016)

He is tied with Sasori in the Akatsuki for best of the non doujutsu users


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 16, 2016)

It still doesn't mean he can produce or maintain a larger waterdome, there's a cap to the amount of chakra they can put into their techniques and that cap is the same as in life.

Otherwise, as I stated, Tobirama would've made 100 bunshin instead of 2 that he was limited to making by admission, Gengetsu wouldn't be weakened because any chakra he lost by maintaining/activating Joki Boy would be replenished just like Kisame with waterdome, etc.

Examples don't line up with it.

Their chakra stays at 100% unless there's a technique being maintained (Joki Boy, Kage Barrier) that is flowing and demanding part of that chakra pool (Took Gengetsu from 100% to like 15% and he was basically fodder with liquid technique- dude was literally hiding). Once that technique is deactivated/destroyed/ended that chakra goes back to 100%. But they can't turn 100% into 1000% just because they're Edo, the chakra isn't without limit, it merely never extinguishes.

Edo Nagato did take chakra from an outside source though, Killer Bee, and that probably would have enhanced his techniques to a higher level seeing as his pool was now above 100% with the added chakras from Killer Bee, but once that added chakra was spent he'd be back to 100% chakra to manipulate indefinitely.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Icegaze (Nov 16, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Of course Katon doesn't have Jinton's power, but the reason I brought it up was to showcase that the blade can absorb chakra by cutting right through it.
> 
> No, contact isn't needed, Samehada already absorbed a fireball & bijuu chakra without making contact.
> 
> ...



You still have provided no hype or feats To suggest samehada absorbs jinton 
Fodder Katon is not jinton. 

Bijuu chakra Is not jinton . Bijuu chakra touching susanoo won't eradicate it 


Read OP for location . 

Which location can't Baku be summoned in ?

Why does danzo need to stop to summon . ? 

Love the fan fic


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## WorldsStrongest (Nov 16, 2016)

200+ responses to this thread...wow...just wow...guess theres a disparity in terms of where kisame is placed among fans, no other character comes to mind that would get half as many responses in a thread like this. Itd be interesting to be proven wrong tho.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 16, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> It still doesn't mean he can produce or maintain a larger waterdome, there's a cap to the amount of chakra they can put into their techniques and that cap is the same as in life.
> 
> Otherwise, as I stated, Tobirama would've made 100 bunshin instead of 2 that he was limited to making by admission, Gengetsu wouldn't be weakened because any chakra he lost by maintaining/activating Joki Boy would be replenished just like Kisame with waterdome, etc.
> 
> ...



I think you're misunderstanding me.

As he's puking up his Waterdome, wouldn't he be continually regenerating his chakra while hes puking up, theoretically puking up endless amounts of water.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 16, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> 200+ responses to this thread...wow...just wow...guess theres a disparity in terms of where kisame is placed among fans, no other character comes to mind that would get half as many responses in a thread like this. Itd be interesting to be proven wrong tho.



Well, he's a currently highly controversial shinobi of potentially insane power.

He has a wide array of jutsu that can counter almost anything.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 16, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Good point, but wouldn't Kisame replenish the chakra hes using for Waterdome while hes creating since it regenerates nearly instantly?



 No because a user's limitations is dependent on their volume of chakra which remains the same as an Edo Tensei with the inclusion of replenish-able reserves. If Edo Tensei had the qualities that you're proposing, then Hashirama wouldn't have suffered such a severe limitation that he was incapable of replicating his predominant technique. Obviously they're bound by their limitations as their former selves and it'd make no sense why Kisame would be an exception to this rule given that Hashirama is an even more stupendous chakra monster than Kisame is. (inb4 you actually argue against manga fax)


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## Troyse22 (Nov 16, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> No because a user's limitations is dependent on their volume of chakra which remains the same as an Edo Tensei with the inclusion of replenish-able reserves. If Edo Tensei had the qualities that you're proposing, then Hashirama wouldn't have suffered such a severe limitation that he was incapable of replicating his predominant technique. Obviously they're bound by their limitations as their former selves and it'd make no sense why Kisame would be an exception to this rule given that Hashirama is an even more stupendous chakra monster than Kisame is. (inb4 you actually argue against manga fax)



I see
To the crossed out horseshit, knock off the sarcasm, do you remember 3 months ago when everyone viewed you as a troll? Do you really want go back to that?


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## The_Conqueror (Nov 16, 2016)

When gengetsu used his jutsu his body remained extremely weak so that he had to hide being edo did not replenish chakra.

Another such instance was when muu splitted into half he should have replenished soon enough but he could not use jinton

We know about the limitations of clone that hashi and Tobi had so this should apply to kisame too.


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## The_Conqueror (Nov 16, 2016)

Let's just say that madara has 5 chakra and he needs 3 to maintain his sussanoo. Being an Edo means that his 3 chakra that he uses for sussanoo will get replinished so he can maintain it but the  5 chakra of his remains constant.  It doesnot it get added up to 8  or so that he can create a ultra perfect or sth sussanoo. Same thing with kisame the chakra that he uses to make the waterdome gets replenished  and can maintain it better as an Edo due to that fact


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 16, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> I see
> To the crossed out horseshit, knock off the sarcasm, do you remember 3 months ago when everyone viewed you as a troll? Do you really want go back to that?



 Great, choose to be dishonest by dodging my argument to focus on something that didn't mean anything other than it being a lighthearted joke. 

 But nah, don't remember when I was viewed as a troll. Probably was some butt-hurt Minato fans anyways.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Troyse22 (Nov 16, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Great, choose to be dishonest by dodging my argument to focus on something that didn't mean anything other than it being a lighthearted joke.
> 
> But nah, don't remember when I was viewed as a troll. Probably was some butt-hurt Minato fans anyways.



I remember you crying because nobody was taking you seriously.

And I said I see because I agreed with you


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 16, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> You still have provided no hype or feats To suggest samehada absorbs jinton
> Fodder Katon is not jinton.
> 
> Bijuu chakra Is not jinton . Bijuu chakra touching susanoo won't eradicate it
> ...


I provided the feats.. he absorbed multiple nature transformation techniques and bijuu chakra which is pound for pound the greatest chakra in the world.

I don't understand what the basis of your argument is.

Jinton attacks on the molecular level? Okay.. so does FRS? And he'd absorb that as well.

Jinton is special because it's made of three elements? Okay.. bijuu chakra is the most extraordinary chakra in the entire world- Kisame absorbed that without even making contact.

Baku can't be summoned in many location, caves, most buildings, on water, etc.

He needs to stop to summon because he has to touch the ground with his hand and hold it there to summon it, as most shinobi have shown the need to do.

More or less irrelevant, I already displayed an option for Kisame to quickly neutralize that summon and continue pursuing Danzo. 

And it wouldn't begin sucking prior to Kisame being too close to Danzo to escape himself. Basically, Kisame wouldn't be in front of Baku, and Danzo wouldn't be in back of Baku, before it began sucking. Kisame is too fast to let this dude summon a monster, and let the monster begin sucking hard enough to prevent him pursuing Danzo before he covered most netural distances (under 50m- gets behind Baku).


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## WorldsStrongest (Nov 16, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Jinton attacks on the molecular level? Okay.. so does FRS?


Well actually, Jinton attacks on a molecular level, but FRS attacks only on the cellular level. Jinton affects much smaller matter.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 16, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Well actually, Jinton attacks on a molecular level, but FRS attacks only on the cellular level. Jinton affects much smaller matter.


FRS vaporized part of a path & it's apparrel before detonation.



Plenty of chakra based variants attack on a molecular level, even down to a simple fire bullet which transfers solid/liquid matter into gas on contact.

I'm merely trying to discern where Icegaze thinks Jinton becomes the exception in comparison to Speeding Katon, Trickling Lightning and Bijuu Chakra.


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## Icegaze (Nov 16, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> I provided the feats.. he absorbed multiple nature transformation techniques and bijuu chakra which is pound for pound the greatest chakra in the world.
> 
> I don't understand what the basis of your argument is.
> 
> ...



He absorbed raiton chakra flow an Katon
Ok let's use this logic 
If I can block fodder Katon and fodder raiton are you there by saying any defence which can block those can automatically block jinton ?

Samehada has no feats to claim it can absorb FRs though FRS still can't be compared to jinton 

Bijuu chakra cloak is Ann issue with quantity not property 

Ok let's use your logic based on absorbing Katon and raiton can samehada absorb omyoton? It's afterall only a combination of elements like jinton 

Why can't Baku be summoned on water ? We assume a ninja summon can't stand on water despite that being an elementary skill ?

 no scans of danzo touching the ground to summon Baku you just making shit up now 

How many times have Simmons been used with no ground being touched . 

I expect a lot better from you this is just shit posting 

Kisame has no speed feats to suggest he is too fast


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## Icegaze (Nov 16, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> FRS vaporized part of a path & it's apparrel before detonation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Defo based on that I hope you will claim samehada can absorb omyoton 

Please claim it . Then poll it so we can laugh


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## WorldsStrongest (Nov 16, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> FRS vaporized part of a path & it's apparrel before detonation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh no i more or less agree with you, i was just arguing semantics is all.


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## UchihaX28 (Nov 16, 2016)

Yeah ... Samehada isn't absorbing Jinton.

 Bijuu chakra is just pure chakra, I don't see how that compares to Jinton where it vaporizes anything upon contact and its lethality was compared to Juubito's Gudoudama.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Icegaze (Nov 17, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Yeah ... Samehada isn't absorbing Jinton.
> 
> Bijuu chakra is just pure chakra, I don't see how that compares to Jinton where it vaporizes anything upon contact and its lethality was compared to Juubito's Gudoudama.



Lol I love how the logic is it absorbed Katon so it can absorb jinton 

Guess any defence which can tank Katon can tank jinton 

Amazing stuff


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## Ishmael (Nov 17, 2016)

*
Akatsuki*

*War Arc Obito*
*6 paths of Pain*
*Itachi Uchiha*
Kakazu
Sasori/kisame
Deidara/Konan
Zetsu
*Hidan*
*Hokages*

*Hashirama Senju*
*Minato Namikaze*
*Hiruzen Sarutobi*
*Tobirama senju*
*Tsunade senju/kisame*
*Kakashi hatake*
Danzo is a bum.
*Tsuchikages*

*Muu*
*ohnoki*
*Kisame isn't beating either*
*Raikages*

*3rd Raikage*
*4th Raikage            *
*Debatable I suppose but he's still below the two.*
*Kazekages*

*3rd Kazekage*
War arc Gaara
Rasa/kisame
*Mizukages*

*Gengetsu Hozuki*
Kisame
Mei 
*Sanins*

*War Arc Orochimaru*
*Sage Jiraiya*
*Konoha Crush Orochimaru*
*Base Jiraiya*
*Tsunade/Kisame I'd put him a step higher then her a little also not a big gap though *
*War Arc Mentions*

*Sage Naruto*
*KCM naruto*
*Bee*
*Kakashi (One mangekyou) *
*Kisame*
*Hanzo *
*Sakura  *
*Sasuke (kabuto fight)*
*Chiyo*
*Kimimaro *


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## Lord Aizen (Nov 17, 2016)

oetsuthebest said:


> Im not obliged to ask your question.
> 
> Go read the manga, Kisame never even laid a finger in Gai, so him almost getting stomped is fantasy. Just like the other thing about Kisame pushing him to 7 gates. The manga explains why he went 7 gates. And last, Open sea.



30% kisame punched guy in the stomach making him cough up blood and travel 70+ feet under water. 
Guy was forced into 6 gates by that same kisame. 6 gated guy couldn't keep up with kisames 1000 sharks so he went 7 gates

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lord Aizen (Nov 17, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> Says the new iza of kisame
> Pretty sure you both know each other[/QUOTE
> 
> nobody compares to that guy he was the absolute worst 15 page essays on why orochimaru is the greatest of all time, every week it was too much


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## Ayala (Nov 17, 2016)

Lord Aizen said:


> 30% kisame punched guy in the stomach making him cough up blood and travel 70+ feet under water.
> Guy was forced into 6 gates by that same kisame. 6 gated guy couldn't keep up with kisames 1000 sharks so he went 7 gates



Wtf is this, you're talking base Gai vs Kisame with samehada (30% of chakra doesn't change his physical stats). Kisame is stronger than base Gai, but 6 gated Gai literally destroyed him, he couldn't do shit but comment on his speed as he got kicked across the map. 

Yo wtf, Gai vaporized his sharks, none of them touched him. But as the scroll was getting away from underwater Gai went 7 gates to hit a larger area. Notice Gai going underwater. 

Then he blasted Hirudora. Kisame got defeated in the crossfire, he wasn't even after Kisame himself. And he still got defeated. Underwater. 

Wonder if people actually read what they're talking about...


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## Troyse22 (Nov 17, 2016)

the one time I read ignored content, and I regret it 

Oetsu says Kisame never laid a finger up Gai, Aizen counters and proves him wrong, Oetsu makes up some half assed, barely acceptable argument.



oetsuthebest said:


> Wonder if people actually read what they're talking about...



The irony here is hilarious.


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## Ayala (Nov 17, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> the one time I read ignored content, and I regret it
> 
> Oetsu says Kisame never laid a finger up Gai, Aizen counters and proves him wrong, Oetsu makes up some half assed, barely acceptable argument.
> 
> ...



Post a panel of Kisame landing a single finger on Gai at their battle of turtle island... And then we'll talk. 

He said Gai got overpowered from the sharks. When that's as untrue as it gets, he vaporized them. Then he opted for the 7 gate as the scroll could go away and he had to hit them all. 

kisame then absorbed the entirety of a V2 cloak on top of the majority of bees base chakra,

kisame then absorbed the entirety of a V2 cloak on top of the majority of bees base chakra,

kisame then absorbed the entirety of a V2 cloak on top of the majority of bees base chakra,

This is written in the pages amd explained, it shows Gai's after the scroll amd Kisame is trying to get the scroll away with 1000 sharks. Gai vaporizes the surface ones, and notices the others below him, and gets down to catch them all and get the scroll. 

How someone can come and tell me Gai was "pressured" by Kisame and almost got stomped is beyond my skills to understand.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 17, 2016)

> He absorbed raiton chakra flow an Katon
> Ok let's use this logic
> If I can block fodder Katon and fodder raiton are you there by saying any defence which can block those can automatically block jinton ?


Blocking has nothing to do with it. He's literally sucking the chakra out of the jutsu deeming it harmless.



> Samehada has no feats to claim it can absorb FRs though FRS still can't be compared to jinton


Of course it does, it already absorbed the greatest chakra in existence and multiple nature transformations.



> Bijuu chakra cloak is Ann issue with quantity not property


Property has nothing to do with the ability to absorb chakra. The only weakness, if you can call it that, is overheated chakra for Samehada.



> Ok let's use your logic based on absorbing Katon and raiton can samehada absorb omyoton? It's afterall only a combination of elements like jinton


No, it's too much chakra and it'd turn into stone nigh instantly even if it could.



> Why can't Baku be summoned on water ? We assume a ninja summon can't stand on water despite that being an elementary skill ?
> 
> no scans of danzo touching the ground to summon Baku you just making shit up now


Why would a building sized elephant with no ninja training be able to stand on a waterbed.



> How many times have Simmons been used with no ground being touched .


Once by Gai, Food Cart Destroyer is a special technique



> Kisame has no speed feats to suggest he is too fast


He blocked V1 Killer Bee in CQC after dodging a lightning pencil

His blade avoided V1 Killer Bee's lightning katana blitz from under 5m, and forced him to leap above and past Kisame as he ripped more of his cloak off

He was pressuring Base Gai with a clone at a third of his power, punched him directly in the chest sending him dozens OF meters into the waterbed and forced him to enter the 6th gate as he couldn't even break free from 1/3rd Kisame in close quarters with a fake Samehada to free his team


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## Icegaze (Nov 18, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Blocking has nothing to do with it. He's literally sucking the chakra out of the jutsu deeming it harmless.
> 
> Of course it does, it already absorbed the greatest chakra in existence and multiple nature transformations.
> 
> ...



On what basis is omyoton too much chakra but not jinton
?


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## Turrin (Nov 18, 2016)

Kisame doesn't have a stable rank as his power is dependent on how much chakra he has managed to steal at any given time. So his power is highly dependent on the enemy he faces

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lord Aizen (Nov 18, 2016)

oetsuthebest said:


> Wtf is this, you're talking base Gai vs Kisame with samehada (30% of chakra doesn't change his physical stats). Kisame is stronger than base Gai, but 6 gated Gai literally destroyed him, he couldn't do shit but comment on his speed as he got kicked across the map.
> 
> Yo wtf, Gai vaporized his sharks, none of them touched him. But as the scroll was getting away from underwater Gai went 7 gates to hit a larger area. Notice Gai going underwater.
> 
> ...



you said kisame never touched guy. im showing you youre wrong.

looked again he barely vaporized any there was still hundreds of them.

ok after rereading it my mistake i thought he went 7 gates because he got overwhelmed.


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## Ayala (Nov 18, 2016)

Lord Aizen said:


> you said kisame never touched guy. im showing you youre wrong.
> 
> looked again he barely vaporized any there was still hundreds of them.
> 
> ok after rereading it my mistake i thought he went 7 gates because he got overwhelmed.



He never touched Gai at the island, you're talking something else.

Barely vaporized any? All the surface ones that were coming at his face. He can't vaporize sharks that were going underwater, cant blame the man.


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## Lord Aizen (Nov 18, 2016)

oetsuthebest said:


> He never touched Gai at the island, you're talking something else.
> 
> Barely vaporized any? All the surface ones that were coming at his face. He can't vaporize sharks that were going underwater, cant blame the man.



at the island no i was talking about when base guy fought 30% kisame

506 page 12 there were tons on the surface. There was a wall of sharks 50 feet high


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## Ayala (Nov 18, 2016)

Lord Aizen said:


> at the island no i was talking about when base guy fought 30% kisame
> 
> 506 page 12 there were tons on the surface. There was a wall of sharks 50 feet high



And 506 page 13 there's not any kg of shark on the surface. You were that close, only one more page and you would have uncovered the truth by yourself.


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## Sapherosth (Nov 19, 2016)

LAZLOLAZZING said:


> *Akatsuki*
> 
> *War Arc Obito*
> *6 paths of Pain*
> ...





Why is EMS Sasuke below Sakura and Kisame?


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## Ishmael (Nov 19, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> Why is EMS Sasuke below Sakura and Kisame?



Lol for that one bro I got lazy and just put kisame where I wanted him I didn't rearrange like others. I'd say he's below or slightly on the same tier with him out of the war arc rankings.


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