# Strongest Person, Team, Or Duo Deidara and Sasori Can Beat?



## RedChidori (Jan 23, 2015)

The title speaks only the truth .



*WHO IS THE STRONGEST PERSON, TEAM, OR DUO SASORI AND DEIDARA CAN BEAT?! YOU DECIDE!!!

Both are alive with all of their feats, both living and Edo alike. Of course, minus the infinite stamina and healing. Sasori has all of his puppets and he starts off using the Third Kazekage. Deidara starts off on foot with Clay Monsters aiding him. He can and will go airborne whenever he feels the need to. The duo have full knowledge on all their opponents. Their opponents have manga knowledge.*


*Spoiler*: __ 



**BONUS SCENARIO**
Both are Edo Tensei. Sasori has all of his puppets and startts off in Hiruko. Deidara starts off on his Clay Owl.




*READY?! DISCUSS   !!!!!!!!! -RedChidori*


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## darkcatmax (Jan 23, 2015)

I feel like 7th Gate Gai is a good start. Gai could beat Sasori potentially 1v1. If Dedara gets in the air and throws C3, Gai's lack of ranged jutsu other than Daytime tiger which drains him would doom him.


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## LostSelf (Jan 23, 2015)

Hirudora doesn't drain Gai anymore.


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## darkcatmax (Jan 23, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Hirudora doesn't drain Gai anymore.



Using hirudora still has backslash and rips muscles, I never said using one would kill him, or make him faint, however going 7th Gate and using daytime tiger would slow him down and cause backlash.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 23, 2015)

Person: Itachi
Duo: Orochimaru & Jiraiya
Team: 100,000 Zetsu clone army (based on quantity, not quality)


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## Jad (Jan 24, 2015)

darkcatmax said:


> Using hirudora still has backslash and rips muscles, I never said using one would kill him, or make him faint, however going 7th Gate and using daytime tiger would slow him down and cause backlash.



If he can spam Evening Elephant without missing a beat, he can do so with Hirudora.


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## Mercurial (Jan 24, 2015)

darkcatmax said:


> I feel like 7th Gate Gai is a good start. Gai could beat Sasori potentially 1v1. If Dedara gets in the air and throws C3, Gai's lack of ranged jutsu other than Daytime tiger which drains him would doom him.



Gai negs both. He just blitzes right in front of them and unleashes Hiru Tora, and they are dismembered. Or he unsleashes Hiru Tora and that's it. Gates speed is actually far more than enough, with a single jump he quickly appears to the other part of the turtle island that is large kms and kms. He blitzes their asses one after another. After Sasori puts his destroyed body together, Gai destroys him with Asa Kujaku.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 24, 2015)

Jad said:


> If he can spam Evening Elephant without missing a beat, he can do so with Hirudora.



[youtube]1zbBzO2RdqM[/youtube]


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## LostSelf (Jan 24, 2015)

darkcatmax said:


> Using hirudora still has backslash and rips muscles, I never said using one would kill him, or make him faint, however going 7th Gate and using daytime tiger would slow him down and cause backlash.





Jad said:


> If he can spam Evening Elephant without missing a beat, he can do so with Hirudora.



Yes, indeed.

And he actually used 8th Gate and spammed Evening Elephant after he used Hirudora and exploded in his face.

One Hirudora would be a breeze.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 24, 2015)

I figured you can't do anything but elephant every time you move your fist in 8th gate.  Like oh I'm gonna wave to the crowd! -ah no it was an elephant.


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## Sadgoob (Jan 24, 2015)

Deidara's hugely underestimated IMO. The c4 clones he casually feinted Sasuke with are a top tier jutsu, and we've seen him clone feint Team Kakashi and Team Gai and Sasuke...​


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## Empathy (Jan 24, 2015)

I think they'd beat most or nearly all high Kages; Itachi, Minato, Bee, Jiraiya, Tobirama and so forth, but they'd probably lose to Pain/Nagato or Danzo. Gai not getting tired from _Hirudora_ anymore or being able to use it more than once is based on flawed logic; although, it isn't pertinent as one _Hirudora_ would suffice to kill both Deidara and Sasori. Deidara could kill Gai alone, before it comes to that. _C3_, _C4_, and _C0_ will all kill Gai, just as the sixth, seventh, and last gate would kill Deidara. _Jibaku Bunshin_ feints (which canonically was going to kill Gai) and _C2_ landmines give Deidara a slight chance to end it before it devolves into who decides to kill the other first.

*Edit:* Meant to mention Muu as well.


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## LostSelf (Jan 24, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I figured you can't do anything but elephant every time you move your fist in 8th gate.  Like oh I'm gonna wave to the crowd! -ah no it was an elephant.



In other words, you cannot brofist with Eight gated Gai .


*Spoiler*: __ 



I actually think it doesn't matter. EE should be much more taxing than Hirudora, and he shrugged off that backlash for a good time. I think he should be able throw more Hirudoras.


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## Veracity (Jan 24, 2015)

I absolutely hate when people think Gai's super resilient because he can enter the 8th gate and fight . Or is that not just the point of the technique in general ? If anyone learns the red gate they are going to be able to atleast get a decent battle off without turning into dust . Dai's genin ass was able to fight a good deal in that mode( atleast enabling Gai to escape) and his intial strength before gates is substantially inferior to an swordsman of the mist. 

And I do think being able to fire off a shit ton of EE's is a factor of being in the 8th gate and not actually impressive. Why would AT be considered some "one time", only use in dire situation techniques if he could literally spam the move with little drawbacks. Cause remember, EE>>>>>>>AT and Gai used more then 5 EE's against juubidara. So why doesn't Gai just spam the shit out of AT any given chance he needs to ? Like when 30% Kisame was manhandling him and his entire team. Or when him and Kakashi were struggling against the Bjuii.. Or when Obito and Madara were toying with the masters and jin. Why need Naruto and bee firing Bjuii-Dama when you have rapid fire AT's from Gai ? . The gates has always been labeled as a technique  that puts he user at risk. Evident by the fact of how tactically and limited Gai uses the ability. Evident by the fact that Gai couldn't even move after using the 7th gate against Kisame or the fact that base Gai after being healed by Tsuande/sakura fell into Lee's arms in exhaustion from fighting in BASE. The entire multiple AT, and fighting in the 7th gate casually shit was only a Juubidara arc thing which was already plagued with massive outlier feats and plot holes.


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## SSMG (Jan 24, 2015)

Lol someone mentioned seventh gate guy... Really? Lol base guy maybe.. Seventh gate guy Rolf stps before they both knew they were in a fight.

They might be able to take down am jiraiya or itachi or someone on that level if they get lucky.


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## ARGUS (Jan 24, 2015)

Empathy said:


> *I think they'd beat most or nearly all high Kages;*


Nah they are not that strong, 



> Itachi,


Itachi comfortably beats them, hes atleast 2 tiers above them individually 

 -- Amaterasu ends diedaara, the moment itachi lays his eyes on him, so thats a GG

 -- Susanoo obliterates sasori and a straight totsuka immediately seals him away 



> Minato,


Minato is also beatiing them comfortably,hes well above them 

 -- Bunta helps him close the distannce against deidara as once that happens, deidara gets slammed down by a rasengan 

 -- Sasoris attacks are comfortably evaded by minato ON FOOT, he  gets the same treatment as deidara, or he can also get crushed by FCD 


> Bee,


TBB GG 


> Jiraiya,


Pretty much the same as Minatos, 
except jiraiya is even more suited to fight them tahnks to his elemental attacks 


> Tobirama


Tobirama would lose without  edos, so i cann agree with you here 



> and so forth, but they'd probably lose to Pain/Nagato


Agreed, theyd get raped by him 



> or Danzo.


They actually beat danzo, mid diff 

 -- literally all of his attacks are evaded by them through flight, as he isnt landing a single hit on them, whilst the duo completely spam their bombs and puppet based atttacks that are forcing ddanzo to use izanagi all this  time, 

 -- Bakus suction gets evaded and he gets blown up by clay bombs so even that is non factor 



> Gai not getting tired from _Hirudora_ anymore or being able to use it more than once is based on flawed logic;


Actually it isnt, 
Guy used hirudora right after using morning peacock against kisame 
yet he was perfectly fine and showed no signs of exhaustion, *heck he wasnt  even panting, and was even in his gated state after kisame got put down*, 
so one hirudora isnt affecting guy that much, 

hell guy used hirudora in base,, when he was seriously injured, and that hirudora still plowed through madaras V3 susanoo 



> although, it isn't pertinent as one _Hirudora_ would suffice to kill both Deidara and Sasori. Deidara could kill Gai alone, before it comes to that. _C3_, _C4_, and _C0_ will all kill Gai, just as the sixth, seventh, and last gate would kill Deidara. _Jibaku Bunshin_ feints (which canonically was going to kill Gai) and _C2_ landmines give Deidara a slight chance to end it before it devolves into who decides to kill the other first.


hebi sasuke was evading deidaras  bombs, 
gated guy laughs at them, and deidara not being able to even track him just makes matters worse as nothing short  of C3 or C4 would suffice againnst him, 

clay clones wont help either when guy can still use his taijutsu attacks to eradicate them, and if they arent far off from the original deidara, then a hirudora has a wide enough AOE to kill all the clones and deidara himself, 

although i would agree that deiddara can beat guy if the distance is over 100m, with deidara starting airborne and starting with C4 

however sasori  is getting foddered with no difficulty


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## Trojan (Jan 24, 2015)

They did lose to Sai/Kankoro, no?


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## Empathy (Jan 24, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Itachi comfortably beats them, hes atleast 2 tiers above them individually



He's one tier ahead of them, in my opinion.



> -- Amaterasu ends diedaara, the moment itachi lays his eyes on him, so thats a GG



It isn't appearing on him intantly at the distance Deidara fights at, so it'd have to chase him down. At which point, Sasori can intercept it with _satetsu_, as Gaara could do so with his sand and iron sand's shown to be superior. Deidara was also capable of evading that same sand that intercepted _Amaterasu's_ movement speed for time, so Sasori would have a chance to defend or Deidara to set up a feint.



> -- Susanoo obliterates sasori and a straight totsuka immediately seals him away



Unless Sasori flies with Deidara, where _Susanoo_ and its _Totsuka_ can't reach him.



> -- Bunta helps him close the distannce against deidara as once that happens, deidara gets slammed down by a rasengan



Summoning Gamabunta would be risky for Minato to endanger him. _C2_ missiles and landmines along with _Satetsu_ would put his life in serious jeopardy, so Minato may not be a huge fan of the idea. Deidara and Sasori both fighting from afar at long-distances is beneficial, as it prevents them from getting tagged (easily at least) and Minato does all his best killing up close with a kunai or _Rasengan_.



> -- Sasoris attacks are comfortably evaded by minato ON FOOT, he  gets the same treatment as deidara, or he can also get crushed by FCD



_Satetsu Shigure_ is supersonic, so he isn't evading that on foot; he'd need to mount a defense, and a _jikukan kekkai_ would suffice perfectly, but again, just not on foot. _Satetsu Kaihou_ also isn't the easiest attack to evade, and I don't think he could confront Sasori's full _Aka Higi: Hyakki no Soen_ directly and circumvent it without the use of _Hirashin_. Sasori's jiton negates his kunai and limits him to placing marks physically, while Deidara can destroy his other marks. He'd have a tough time reaching them individually, but doing so with each of them I don't find more likely than Minato getting hit by a finisher before then. _Kuchiyose: Yatai Kuzushi_ is generally used on large targets such as bijuu, boss summons, or armies of Zetsu, so using it on two puny humans could be out-of-character. It could also be preempted through the presence of landmines or _Satetsu_, or they could just be out of range. 



> TBB GG



_Satetsu Kaihou_, _C3_, and _C4_ can all damage or even kill the full Hachibi. I don't think any of these fights would be won easily, mind you, and Bee definitely has the means to kill both of them with _Bijuudama_, as do most others I listed; I just see some scenarios as more likely than others. Deidara can probably evade a single, spherical _Bijuudama_ variant in the air and then attack with _C4_, but _Renzoku Bijuudama_ or the one he used to blow up Unraikyo would probably win it for Bee.



> Pretty much the same as Minatos,
> except jiraiya is even more suited to fight them tahnks to his elemental attacks



If Deidara's attacks can affect bijuu, blow up villages, and flip islands, then I'm sure he and Sasori can kill a boss summon. Jiraiya's still vulnerable to Deidara's finishers, and it's not like he can't sustain even a scratch against Sasori. He wouldn't have an easy win with either alone, so I don't think he'd beat both of them. Constant puppet attacks and explosions would also make it difficult to get enough breathing room to enter _Sennin Modo_. Not that I think it'd be impossible for him, but I don't think he could win without it. 



> They actually beat danzo, mid diff
> 
> -- literally all of his attacks are evaded by them through flight, as he isnt landing a single hit on them, whilst the duo completely spam their bombs and puppet based atttacks that are forcing ddanzo to use izanagi all this  time,
> 
> -- Bakus suction gets evaded and he gets blown up by clay bombs so even that is non factor



You're forgetting that Danzo possesses _Kotoamatsukami_; one of the strongest genjutsu in existence, which requires no eye-contact, turns the victim to a meat puppet controlled by Danzo, affected someone of the genjutsu fortitude of Itachi (who was confident it'd work on EMS Sasuke, too), is available to him while sealed, and merely requires a several hour interval between uses (as opposed to _Izanagi_, which demands he sacrifice the eye forever). It puts Danzo above nearly all of the high Kages I listed earlier. 

Without it, I think that Danzo possess the offensive capability roughly of one of the Akatsuki members alone, so they would beat him without it. It being a two-on-one, it prevents Danzo from ending it just by mind controlling his opponent to killing their self. If Danzo uses it to just negate one of their presences, then they still might win by Deidara or Sasori defeating Danzo one-on-one. It may not even work on Sasori, for he has no organic brain to be influenced by genjutsu (arguably). But if Danzo has he and Deidara double team Sasori (or the other way around, assuming it works), then Danzo can't lose.



> Actually it isnt,
> Guy used hirudora right after using morning peacock against kisame
> yet he was perfectly fine and showed no signs of exhaustion, *heck he wasnt  even panting, and was even in his gated state after kisame got put down*,
> so one hirudora isnt affecting guy that much,









These are Gai's conditions following each usage of the _Kyomon_. In the latter two examples, the aftereffects kicked in immediately after _Hirudora_. Gai was incapacitated for days after his battle with Kisame. I'm not convinced Gai could throw out another one of those island-eclipsers without killing himself, barring the temporary boost he gets from the _Shimon_, which only further prolongs killing himself. I don't think Gai's body is capable of using another gated technique after putting his body through that (again, incapacitated for days once the effects kicked in), unless he's willing to sacrifice himself with the last gate. Though, I am glad you didn't use the previous argument already brought up in this thread (Gai used several _Sekizous_ whilst in the _Shimon_, so he can fire multiple _Hirudoras_); by that logic, he should be able to fire dozens of _Hirudoras_ considering the vast power discrepancy between it and _Sekizou_, and that's not reflective of the days of incapacitation Gai endured following just one usage. 



> hell guy used hirudora in base,, when he was seriously injured, and that hirudora still plowed through madaras V3 susanoo



There's no such thing as base _Hirudora_. The _Kyomon_ was just subtly activated for dramatic effect. I also don't believe it, "_plowed through_," Madara's _Susanoo_ so much as it halted its attack and forced it backward. It'd be inconsistent with its previous demonstration, where it failed to kill Kisame. 



> hebi sasuke was evading deidaras  bombs,
> gated guy laughs at them, and deidara not being able to even track him just makes matters worse as nothing short  of C3 or C4 would suffice againnst him,



That's all true, but how does Gai detect _Jibaku_ or _C4_ bunshin feints, or how does he avoid stepping on landmines? What if they're used before Gai ascends into his highest gates? Gai really isn't versatile enough to circumvent Deidara's tricks, and they've roughly the same destructive capacity.



> clay clones wont help either when guy can still use his taijutsu attacks to eradicate them, and if they arent far off from the original deidara, then a hirudora has a wide enough AOE to kill all the clones and deidara himself,



How exactly do punches and kicks eradicate them? Given the nature of _Nendo Bunshin_, Gai's more likely to get killed or crippled by one than he is to vanish one's existence with a punch: 


*Spoiler*: _Databook III—Nendo Bunshin_ 





> Clay Clone (粘土分身, Nendo Bunshin)
> Ninjutsu, Hiden, No rank, Supplementary
> User: Deidara
> 
> ...





Gai could probably escape by opening another gate, but it could detonate before he realizes it or give Deidara time for a _C4_ trap. _Hirudora_ does have enough area-of-effect to kill Deidara, just as you said _C3_ or _C4_ would suffice against Gai.



> although i would agree that deiddara can beat guy if the distance is over 100m, with deidara starting airborne and starting with C4



Under those circumstances, Deidara could potentially one-shot the Sannin, so yeah, of course it'd work against Gai. It'd be like if you put Deidara and Sasori (might as well throw Onoki in there as well) in the Akatsuki cave at five meters and started Gai in the _Kyomon_. I don't see how Gai should be given the edge against Deidara when Deidara was canonically going to kill Team Gai. I also don't consider Gai among the high Kages I mentioned earlier, given the difficulty he fought base Kisame with and how he was portrayed against them.


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## Veracity (Jan 25, 2015)

I think anyone around Base Minato and Tobiramas level would handle these two confortably. Although Minato and Tobirama could be beaten via a lack of Knowlege; Poison or C4.

If Deidara fights anything like he did against Hebi Sasuke, he catches a blitz as Tobirama and Minato both have a substantially faster Shunshin then sasuke given their HandSpeed and reflexes.

I think they comfortably beat any mid tiered Kage( Sannin, Gokage, EDO kage) and have a good chance against Itachi and Danzo.

The super kage level opponents like Hashirama, Madara, Nagato, EMS Sasuke and war arc naruto would trash them however.


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## FlamingRain (Jan 25, 2015)

Empathy said:


> _Satetsu Shigure_ is supersonic, so he isn't evading that on foot; he'd need to mount a defense, and a _jikukan kekkai_ would suffice perfectly, but again, just not on foot.



IIRC after Sasori first used Satetsu Shigure Chiyo was still able to have one of her puppets grab Sakura (which could have only slowed it down) and fly well out of the way of the barrage before it struck where she had been.

A regular Shunshin should suffice to get Minato out of the way.


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## LostSelf (Jan 25, 2015)

Empathy said:


> [...]



Actually, the last two times Gai was out-cold because of Hirudora was because he had been using gates all over the war before. In the first scan, he was beaten up by Madara, who knows how many times he used gates there, but before that attack, he had been using it a lot of times in the war.

The second scan had Gai's Hirudora explode right in his face and he only came out with a broken rib and, of course, out cold for a bit of time.

---------------------------------------------

For the one that said Gai is not super resilient. It's not like Kakashi said that gates destroyes your body while in that mode for the lulz. The difference was made clear to how Gai can use higher gates tan part 1 Lee, kick Shoten Kisame's ass and still be like if nothing happened.

Gai is the very resilient man.


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## MajorWorry (Jan 25, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> IIRC after Sasori first used Satetsu Shigure Chiyo was still able to have one of her puppets grab Sakura (which could have only slowed it down) and fly well out of the way of the barrage before it struck where she had been.
> 
> A regular Shunshin should suffice to get Minato out of the way.



According to the Databook, Satetsu Shigure takes place in a split second or less *in its slowest form*.
Sasori can greatly increase Satetsu Shigure's Speed (to possibly supersonic speeds) *if* he find it necessary.


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## Arles Celes (Jan 25, 2015)

Well, if their opponents are not raiton users or immune to poison with Sasori having the 3rd Kazekage then it is possible for them to defeat someone like Itachi, Oonoki or Jiraiya. Though if Jiraiya starts in SM or Oonoki decides to shoot them with Jinton right away....

As for the strongest two people at once that they can handle would be... Mei and Asuma.

For a big number of opponents that would be like 100s(maybe even 1000s) of White Zetsu clones.

The weakest team that can ruin their day would be Hebi Sasuke and Sakura loaded with antidotes for Sasori's poison.


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## Empathy (Jan 26, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> IIRC after Sasori first used Satetsu Shigure Chiyo was still able to have one of her puppets grab Sakura (which could have only slowed it down) and fly well out of the way of the barrage before it struck where she had been.
> 
> A regular Shunshin should suffice to get Minato out of the way.



The first instance, yes. However, Sasori's capable of increasing their speed using the Kazekage puppet, to the extent where they create sonic-booms when fired (1, 2). Although, the attack broke the sound barrier even in the first instance, so it was already approaching supersonic then. Sasori also doubled his output the second time, as the first time he was only really firing at Chiyo. He stopped firing once they'd exhausted their chakra shields due to PIS, because he could've won there. I consider the feat more of a testament to Chiyo's seal speed (which is faster than her regular speed), and Chiyo herself isn't a slouch either; she could dodge KCM Naruto's _Fuuton: Rasenshuriken_ for example, though obviously that isn't much compared to Minato (she did pace with a 4.5 or 5 speed Kimimaro, though). In addition to Sasori being able to double the output and increase its speed to create sonic-booms, Sasori is also able to fire it in microscopic grains, making it more difficult to perceive. 


*Spoiler*: _Databook III—Satetsu Shigure_ 





> Iron Sand* Drizzle (砂鉄時雨, Satetsu Shigure)
> Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai, No rank, Offensive, All ranges
> Users: Sasori, Sandaime Kazekage
> 
> ...





Minato's speed without _Hirashin_ I'd only peg as comparable to Itachi or base Gai. A supersonic, microscopic attack with increased area-of-effect, I think would necessitate Minato use _Hirashin_ or a _jikukan kekkai_. I personally think it's an underrated technique, and one of the fastest for high tiers; nearly comparable to _Susanoo_ arrows, in my opinion. 

@LostSelf: I don't agree with you.

**


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## Trojan (Jan 26, 2015)

When has itachi or base Gui EVER showed speed feats comparable to Minato's shunshin?


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## StarWanderer (Jan 26, 2015)

Hussain said:


> When has itachi or base Gui EVER showed speed feats comparable to Minato's shunshin?



Well, Guy has better striking speed and reflexes than Minato, according to feats. Itachi's reaction speed is better than that of Minato, but his movement speed is debatable.


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## Trojan (Jan 26, 2015)

I already told you I won't debate you, so do not waste your breath.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 26, 2015)

Hussain said:


> I already told you I won't debate you, so do not waste your breath.



Because i beat you every time in debates i guess?


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## Trojan (Jan 26, 2015)

You think highly of yourself, don't you?


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## StarWanderer (Jan 26, 2015)

Hussain said:


> You think highly of yourself, don't you?



Yes i do. 

Oh by the way, about Guy and Minato - young Obito managed to take Minato's arm. Adult Obito couldnt do the same with base Guy. 

Do your math.


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## Trojan (Jan 26, 2015)

Good thing Gai has 3 to back him up. 
and he did not even land a single hit on Obito. 

when Minato fodderstompped him with a clone.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 26, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Good thing Gai has 3 to back him up.
> and he did not even land a single hit on Obito.
> 
> when Minato fodderstompped him with a clone.



So what? He was fighting Obito 1 on 1 for some time. And Obito couldnt touch him. But young Obito easily touched Minato and almost got him in Kamui demention.

Alive, base Minato never fodderstomped Obito, let alone with a clone. Minato had lots of problems with Obito and Obito almost killed him in that fight. Even Edo Minato, with Kurama's chakra, couldnt do that. 

I'll repeat - do your math.


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## Trojan (Jan 26, 2015)

Whatever. I am not wasting my time with you.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 26, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Whatever. I am not wasting my time with you.



Because you know i am too difficult for you to debate with. 

Minato, objectively, isnt very fast. Because he had great performances only against featless characters. His Shunshin is great, but his reflexes and striking speed arent great. Base Minato is slower than base Guy, let alone Guy in Gates. And in 7 Gates, Guy has been shown to be on a completely different, higher level than Minato. Manga fact. 

But of course, you will deny it. Even if Kishimoto himself will tell you that Minato cant beat the likes of Hashirama, Madara and 7 Gates Guy, you will tell that Minato can, although even his feats arent good enough to suggest such a thing.

Minato is like Mike Tyson. Mike is widely considered to be the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time, but whom he defeated throughout his career? Most of his opponents were punching bags. And lol, Buster Douglas beat him. Compare his opponents that he defeated with, lets say, Wladimir Klitchsko's opponents and you'll see the difference. 

Minato was touched by young Obito, generally had problems with him and defeated featless characters, such as young Ei, whom he dodged with FTG, not with his own speed like Madara did, for example. 

And finally, i am surprised your posts arent in Shinobi no Kami's Hall of Fail.


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## Trojan (Jan 26, 2015)

> Because you know i am too difficult for you to debate with.


rather because you are "less than smart" so to speak.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 26, 2015)

Hussain said:


> rather because you are "less than smart" so to speak.



Too smart for you anyway.


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## Trojan (Jan 26, 2015)

Sure. Someone who uses his own ignorance as a proof.  
and does not even understand the basics in the story. Hell, even after 700 chapters
still does not know what shunshin is and want to debate about it. :rofl


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 26, 2015)

> Because you know i am too difficult for you to debate with.
> 
> Minato, objectively, isnt very fast. Because he had great performances only against featless characters. His Shunshin is great, but his reflexes and striking speed arent great.



What do you believe allows Minato to react if not his reflexes, and why is the Raikage objectively not very fast?

Do you believe the absorption of kamui to be featless, or so different in speed from the one used to pull Sasuke from under Onoki's nose to so different as to be incomparable to the one Minato warped away from?


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## Trojan (Jan 26, 2015)

The Raikage is featless.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 26, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Sure. Someone who uses his own ignorance as a proof.
> and does not even understand the basics in the story. Hell, even after 700 chapters
> still does not know what shunshin is and want to debate about it. :rofl



Wrong. First of all, i know what Shunshin is. And still, the fact Minato has great shunshin doesnt make him the fastest shinobi of all time in terms of attacking speed and reflexes.

And i use facts from manga and logic as proof. Something you cant do. You are overestimating Minato too much without paying any attention to details. 

And dont even write to me about story basics, lol. 



> What do you believe allows Minato to react if not his reflexes, and why is the Raikage objectively not very fast?
> 
> Do you believe the absorption of kamui to be featless, or so different in speed from the one used to pull Sasuke from under Onoki's nose to so different as to be incomparable to the one Minato warped away from?



Young Raikage, many years prior to Shippuden and 4th Shinobi World War, is not very fast compare to Guy, War Arc Kakashi, Madara, Hashirama and prime V2 Ei, for example. 

And its funny how you people apply adult Obito's feats to young Obito, without paying any attention to the fact there is a huge time gap between Shippuden and invasion of 9 Tails. 

But ok, i agree that Minato has great reaction speed. What about his movement speed? And how can you comment the fact that young Obito touched Minato and couldnt touch base Guy, for example? 

And what are the speed feats of Onoki's Jinton? 



> The Raikage is featless.



Young one? Of course.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 26, 2015)

Minato needed to get touched so Obito would try to absorb him and make himself tangible.  That was the plan by using Hiraishin V2.  

The speed feats are Sasuke was in the cube and Obito got him out before instant particularization.  Do you see that little scritchy mark inside the jinton?  That is Sasuke.  

So you're not comparing the speed jinton travels, you're comparing the speed it erases the things it touches, which in all other cases is indistinguishable from "as soon as it touched it."


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