# Tsunade vs. Gyuki



## Kai (Oct 9, 2015)

Setting: Konoha
Distance: 20 meters
Knowledge: Manga
Restrictions: Bijuudama
IC


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 9, 2015)

Raishinsho GG.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

Gyuki can even survive to his own BD , a Jutsu with by far much more destructive power than Byakogo Tsunade's punch . plus he is in a hole another level in raw strengh without chakra control , he is compared to the PS , plus he can use Bijuu level Taijutsu like Hachimaki , any average Kage level don't stand a chance . One Bijuu Dama or strike to the ground = One clean Shot .


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## LostSelf (Oct 9, 2015)

Didn't took like... Ei, his father and some other to fight Hachibi?


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## DavyChan (Oct 9, 2015)

wtf is a gyuki


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## Atlantic Storm (Oct 9, 2015)

DavyChan said:


> wtf is a gyuki



It's the Hachibi.


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## Crow (Oct 9, 2015)

She's not regenerating after getting hit with a bijudama, I say Gyuki takes it mid diff.
He faught the 3rd Raikage, A's dad and went blow to blow with him supposedly.
Also he has his ink to trap Tsunade and then he'll hit her with the bijudama. 
He wins this.


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## Empathy (Oct 9, 2015)

What exactly is he suppose to do to her without _Bijuudama_? Tsunade knocks him out eventually.


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## Crow (Oct 9, 2015)

I didn't see the no BIjuudama thing.
That isn't fair to gyuki.


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## LostSelf (Oct 9, 2015)

Hachibi made a huge AoE whirlwind that devastated the landscape. He can manage to injure her and outlast her.

But yes, Hachibi is capable of passing out, but i don't think Tsunade can last as long as the Sandaime did. But well, that was an unrestricted Hachibi...


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## Bonly (Oct 9, 2015)

As long as Tsunade got Byakugo nothing Gyuki does is gonna keep her down for the most part and with Tsunade's strength and Our Queen, The Great Katsuyu-Sama backing her up, Gyuki is gonna catch an acid bath of death sooner or later.


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## Alex Payne (Oct 9, 2015)

Tatsumaki didn't deal any visible damage to Obito's path though. Hachibi even said that the move was used mainly to clear the forest. So Byakugo should be enough to carry Tsunade through. With her strength and Katsuyu she should be capable of knocking Hachibi down eventually. Unless Byakugo-timer runs out before that.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

Mid Kage level will never reach Bijuu level , Madara was pretty clear here :

Even if you add other Kage level , they still lose to Gyuki .

*Plus Hachibi can take his own BD , a Jutsu with the same destructive power of many PS slash ,* Tsunade's punches are strong against other Kages but it's meaninless against a Bijuu .


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## I Blue I (Oct 9, 2015)

The portrayal the Bijuu received changed drastically throughout the manga. Perfect Jinchuuriki and even free Bijuu alike were casually dominated by Akatsuki pairs (or even just one member, in some cases). Shukaku was held back by the likes of Raasa. We were told that freed Bijuu mindlessy rampage without a host, and only a perfect Jinchuuriki could utilize their full power, and yet the War Arc illustrated that they are, in fact, intelligent beings capable of controlling all of their power. I would say, if we take their portrayal in the earlier stages, Tsunade could defeat the Hachibi with her immense strength and Byakugo.


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## Alex Payne (Oct 9, 2015)

Deidara casually off-paneled Sanbi.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

No Tobi solos him using Genjutsu , Deidara was just trikced :
C1 , C2<<<<BD
and C3<<BD


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## Alex Payne (Oct 9, 2015)

Databook that came out after Tobi being revealed as Madara confirms that Sanbi was defeated by Deidara's Explosive Clay.



> Sanbi (三尾, "Three-Tails")
> A giant turtle with a hard shell. Not having a "Jinchuuriki," it lived at the bottom of a lake. It was silenced by Deidara's "Exploding Clay" and captured.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

Yeah after beeing controled by Obito's Genjutsu , a Bijuu can take his own BD and can rivals PS .


*Spoiler*: __ 



That strength is the power (to control) life or death?Together with Senju Hashirama, they were called 「Legendary Shinobi」. The strongest man of the Uchiha Clan is Madara. When invoking the destructive God that is*?The Complete-Body Susanoo?, (his strength) is to the extent that it even rivals that of the tailed-beasts.* Even amongst the Uchiha clan, he excelled at the usage of the Sharingan. As the head of the clan, he also enjoyed (his reputation and) the trust and confidence (of his people). Without the understanding of his brethren, Madara turned his back on the village. He was merely advocating for one simple thing, completely from the bottom of his heart?(A world) without war: an eternity of?Infinite Tsukuyomi?, and to be perpetually filled with love. It was for the advancement of shinobi in a world with scenes of blood-stained carnage. Because of Madara?s situation, he became disillusioned with the mundane world. 




Or maybe you think that Deidara can rivals EMS Madara  .

2 Akatsuki members can capture at most a V2 level Jinchuriki , nothing more , a Bijuu is at a whole another level .


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## Alex Payne (Oct 9, 2015)

Power Inflation + you misinterpreting statements

Kakuzu+Hidan beat BM Yugito without much troubles. Deidara knocked out Sanbi. 

As for DB statements



> ext: Akatsuki's ranks are filled by deserters from every country. And not just any deserters. These ones are pretty much all wanted internationally, for crimes such as Daimyou* murder, terrorist bombing, and slaughtering an entire clan.
> They invariably go by pairs, with instructions to hunt a quota of one bijuu per individual. For they are powerhouses with unique abilities like Human Puppeteering or Exploding Clay, *and the leader is confident that if they organize by pairs, they will lose neither to jinchuuriki nor to bijuu.*



Let me ask you this - if Biju can rival Perfect Susano. Can Third Raikage tie with Madara restricted to Perfect Susano?


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## Bonly (Oct 9, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Yeah after beeing controled by Obito's Genjutsu , a Bijuu can take his own BD and can rivals PS .
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Can you show me where it's shown or stated that Obito used Genjutsu on Isobu?


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

Bonly said:


> Can you show me where it's shown or stated that Obito used Genjutsu on Isobu?


Can you show me when it's said that Obito didn't use Genjutsu on Isobu ?




			
				Alex Payne said:
			
		

> Power Inflation + you misinterpreting statements
> 
> Kakuzu+Hidan beat BM Yugito without much troubles. Deidara knocked out Sanbi.
> 
> As for DB statements


Since when Yugito master his Bijuu like a Perfect Jinchuriki ? Since when we know Yugito's fatigue level before the fight , if she was sick or not , if she was out of chakra before even the beginning of the fight ?



> As for DB statements


That's old DB statement just like Hiruzen who was said to be the strongest Hokage in history so .... 
Kishimoto changes his mind in the War Arc , now the Bijuu can even rivals Madara's PS .



> Let me ask you this - if Biju can rival Perfect Susano. Can Third Raikage tie with Madara restricted to Perfect Susano?


Yeah , he can counter PS Slash using Jigozuki and if you don't know :
Jigozuki>>FRS .
But I assume he will lose .
*And also , Yondaime Raikage rivals fight a Bijuu , only his father can .*


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## FlamingRain (Oct 9, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Didn't took like... Ei, his father and some other to fight Hachibi?



Raikage fought it by himself once.



hbcaptain said:


> Madara was pretty clear here.



Gamabunta's water bullets could cancel out two of Shukaku's air bullets each, Rasa repeatedly stopped Shukaku's rampages and Gaara's the scale of sand abilities are large enough for Rasa to think he had already brought out Shukaku, Hidan and Kakuzu beat Matatabi, Deidara knocked out Isobu with C1, the Third Raikage fought Gyūki to a stalemate and beat it when Ay (whose Chakra was stated by Karin to be Bijū level, which Gyūki would have been her reference for) was there, etc.

Susano'o would have killed each of them.

Madara was probably referring to Kurama specifically, seeing as that's the one he has a contract with and has actually battled before. Kurama's also the one that's vastly more powerful than the other ones as demonstrated when 50% of its power proved to be enough to take on five of them.



> *Plus Hachibi can take his own BD , a Jutsu with the same destructive power of many PS slash ,* Tsunade's punches are strong against other Kages but it's meaninless against a Bijuu .



What if Tsunade flips it into a pool of Katsuyu's acid?


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## Bonly (Oct 9, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Can you show me when it's said that Obito didn't use Genjutsu on Isobu ?





> Burden of proof fallacy
> 
> This is when someone attempts to make someone else prove a claim when the burden of proof is really on them to prove it. The burden of proof is always on the positive claim, and the person who makes the claim.
> 
> ...



Sorry but the burden of proof falls on you to back up Obito using genjutsu


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## Ghoztly (Oct 9, 2015)

Uh, maybe I am way behind, but aren't Jinchuriki more powerful than a Bijuu by itself? Provided they have some sort of bond going, even just one of convenience. Wasn't it directly stated in the manga?

Why do you think they were used to balance out the power between nations? You can control a human much more easily than a goddamn beast. And they are stronger together too.

If they couldn't be sealed into people they probably wouldn't have bothered with them to begin with. Most Kage level ninja could solo a damn bijuu easily.

That said with his most powerful ranged attack restricted he doesn't win this.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

People don't seem to notice that *Kishimoto is someone who continually change his mind and manga feats :*

Start of the manga/1st Databoot : Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage , Kyubi is stronger than anyone else , anyone can stand against him .

End of Part1 : It seems that Minato is the strongest Hokage .

Start of Pat2/3rd databook : Akatsuki members are made so they can take on any Bijuu or Jinchuriki and Minato is the man who was never surpassed .

War Arc : It seems that Madara and Hashirama are notably stronger than any Kage in history even stronger than Minato and that Tobirama can use FTG , and also the Bijuu can rivals the two transmigrant .

Then Kishi had just to make an excuse like he did wiht Hashirama and Tobirama ,they wasn't weakened against Hiruzen until the War Arc , *he didn't do it for the Bijuu only because we have never seen previous their fights , that's all .*

And the icing on cake , even Kinkaku/Ginkaku's level (the two who beat up Tobirama) was raised to be even stronger than War Arc Gokage while using all Rikudo's tools , that's all for more credibility .

All we have to do is to follow Kishi's changing mind .


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## Ghoztly (Oct 9, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> People don't seem to notice that *Kishimoto is someone who continually change his mind and manga feats :*
> 
> Start of the manga/1st Databoot : Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage , Kyubi is stronger than anyone else , anyone can stand against him .
> 
> ...



Hmm, can't really argue. The guy changed his mind about practically everything. The worst part is it was fine the way it was


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## FlamingRain (Oct 9, 2015)

We saw Deidara knock out Isobu.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

No we only saw the end of their fight .

Deidara's bombs are nothing compared to a BD so they are nothing compared to a Bijuu physical resilience .


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## Alex Payne (Oct 9, 2015)

Kishi wouldn't have used bijus as hype tools for 3rd A and Rasa if he "changed his mind". Not to mention that within Biju group you have Kyubi and Jubi - each standing above the rest.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

Bijuu was still at heir previous level in the beginning of war , their level only changed at the middle of war when we saw the PS for the fisrt time that's all , then we have just to make some excuses like Kishi did to Hashirama and Tobirama for example :
-Shikaku isn't at his full strenght at the start , Rasa just have to wake up his son .
-Yugito was really weakened before the fight .
-Obito controled Sanbi using his Genjutsu , and simulated a fake fight against Deidara .

*Madara and DB said that a Bijuu can stand against PS , that only means one thing , Bijuu level has changed just like Hashirama and Tobirama .*


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## DavyChan (Oct 9, 2015)

I would think she would do pretty well. he's not fast enough to keep up with her and she has country bursting ground waves. she can regenerate from any non beast bomb type move. she should outlast him


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## FlamingRain (Oct 9, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> No we only saw the end of their fight .



No we saw the bomb hit Isobu while it was swimming around in the manga. The databook then tells us that's how it was knocked out.



hbcaptain said:


> *Madara and DB said that a Bijuu can stand against PS , that only means one thing.*



That he was talking about Kurama.


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## Jad (Oct 9, 2015)

When I watched the anime I thought Obito phased in and planted the C4 bombs in Isobu using his phasing technique.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

So you are maybe thinking that those bombs beat Isobu . We have only seen the beginning and the end of the fight .



> That he was talking about Kurama.


"it's as powerful as the* Bijuu*" That's what he said not only Kurama , *plus Kurama is stronger than other Bijuus , he isn"t totaly outclassin them like did Madara against Gokage .*

And the fourth databook clearly said that *the Bijuu* (and not only Kurama) can rivals the PS .


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## Empathy (Oct 9, 2015)

Is the Kyuubi not a bijuu?

We also saw Deidara casually flip an island over that bijuu fight within a small conpartment of. His underwater bombs have packed quite a punch; physics indicate that explosions are a lot more powerful underwater.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

Yeah , Kyubi is a Bijuu but Madara talked about all Bijuu , he didn't say "PS is as strong as Kyubi" but "PS is as strong as the Bijuu . So a tailed beast can rivals PS like it was stated in the databook .


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## Empathy (Oct 9, 2015)

Strong as a bijuu could mean anything from Shukaku, to Kurama, to the Juubi, as they're all bijuu. Given the context, it's silly to assume the intention is anything other than at least as strong as the Kyuubi.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

Kurama isn't at a hole another level compared to other Bijuu , they still can fight him some time so they can compete with him and rivals him . It's the same when we talk about PS .

Bijuu's Jutsu are mountains range (Bijuu Hachimaki , BD), Kyubi is the same and PS is also the same , Gokage members are all shocked about this level of massive destruction . Plus one tails strike can create an instant Tsunami . 9 Tails strikes can totaly annihilate Giant V3 Susano'o with the same size of Shukaku .


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 9, 2015)

A single bijuudama should eradicate her, not really sure what we're debating here.

5% Katsuya comes out? So? He just bombs her away as well.


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## Kyu (Oct 9, 2015)

Read the op.**


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 9, 2015)

You got me there 

>Bijuu Taijutsu & Bijuudama tanker mid diff


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

So you are saying that other Bijuus can't stand against him more than One second like Gokage members against PS


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 9, 2015)

I'm not really sure what Tsunade is supposed to do to the Eight-Tails. At least the 3rd Raikage had the benefit of having ultra-powerful piercing techniques to make his job of exhausting the Tailed Beast easier, but all Tsunade has is brute force. And the kind of brute force she dishes out isn't nearly enough to take out a beast that took Kokuō's Horn Buster (which is far superior to any of Tsunade's hits), the Jūbi itself smacking him around, and finally a Bijūdama before falling. To be honest, I can't really see how the Hokage can feasibly hurt the beast without punching it in the eye or something.

Gyūki outlasts Tsunade or ends up pancaking her into the floor with repeated hits.


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## Bonly (Oct 9, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> So you are saying that other Bijuus can't stand against him more than One second like Gokage members against PS



So you are saying that other Bijuu can stand against him for more then one second when completely drained and tired like the Gokage members against PS


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 9, 2015)

The Gokage wouldn't stand any quicker of a chance against Perfect Susanoo drained or not. One slash ends the game in a split-second.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 9, 2015)

You can't use the bijuudama tanking feats.  Hachibi loses to shuriken, and gets knocked out by the clash of his own bijuudama and Sandaime's finger.  But he but hops inside the mouth of the stage 2 juubi and clashed bijuudama point blank, and is okay through that.


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 9, 2015)

High end feats > Low end feats 

When you tank a bijuudama to the fucking stomach, every other feat imaginable takes a back seat.

Kisame survives Afternoon Tiger, but gets torn apart by tiger shark teeth and eaten alive. Which feat are you taking for his durability? I'm taking the Afternoon Tiger-level durability.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

Bonly said:


> So you are saying that other Bijuu can stand against him for more then one second when completely drained and tired like the Gokage members against PS


Drained or not , One clean PS Slash is more than enough to kill all Gokage , and a Bijuu can take it by himself using tails or his corps , Kurama can take Juubi blast so other Bijuus can take PS attacks .


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## Bonly (Oct 9, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Drained or not , One clean PS Slash is more than enough to kill all Gokage , and a Bijuu can take it by himself using tails or his corps , Kurama can take Juubi blast so other Bijuus can take PS attacks .



So because Kurama who was nothing but a chakra construct could take on a Juubi's attack that means they all can even when Kurama is above them all? Lol yeah ok bro we're done here, good sir


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

Juubi's blast>>>PS slash , so .... read my posts before saying nonsens .
Plus Kurama can easily tank PS slash using his tails .


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## FlamingRain (Oct 9, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> So you are maybe thinking that those bombs beat Isobu . We have only seen the beginning and the end of the fight .



It's up to you to show that anything else happened in-between, though.

Otherwise it just goes to show the difference between a Bijū with a host and a Bijū acting by itself (something Deidara mentioned after Isobu was beaten), which is an idea Kishimoto didn't change his mind on _(1)_ _(2)_
_(3)_.

There's no evidence that anything else happened, and the databook specifically says Deidara used a bomb and captured it _without any mention of Obito contributing_.



> And the fourth databook clearly said that *the Bijuu* (and not only Kurama) can rivals the PS .



The databook can't be talking about all of the Bijū because the Bijū aren't even all rivals to _each other_, and out of all of the Bijū Kurama is the one Madara would most likely be using as a reference since that's the one he's most familiar with (he's even used it _alongside_ Susano'o against Hashirama).

PS would never have issues with Gamabunta, Rasa, the Third Raikage, or any of the Akatsuki, nor would Gaara be able to do anything powerful enough to be mistaken for it.

It'd stomp all over each of them, and most of the Bijū themselves since it can tank Bijūdamas and devastate mountain ranges with the shockwave of a single slash (the Bijū can only destroy a mountain by hitting it with their Bijūdama).



ATastyMuffin said:


> At least the 3rd Raikage had the benefit of having ultra-powerful piercing techniques to make his job of exhausting the Tailed Beast easier, but all Tsunade has is brute force.



She has Katsuyu's acid for a different type of damage.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> It's up to you to show that anything else happened in-between, though.
> 
> Otherwise it just goes to show the difference between a Bijū with a host and a Bijū acting by itself (something Deidara mentioned after Isobu was beaten), which is an idea Kishimoto didn't change his mind on _(1)_ _(2)_
> _(3)_.


I never rejected that .




> There's no evidence that anything else happened, and the databook specifically says Deidara used a bomb and captured it _without any mention of Obito contributing_.


The old databooks also said that Hiruzen beats Hashirama and Tobirama who weren't weakened and that Hashirama's strongest Jutsu is Jukai Koutan 




> The databook can't be talking about all of the Bijū because the Bijū aren't even all rivals to _each other_, and out of all of the Bijū Kurama is the one Madara would most likely be using as a reference since that's the one he's most familiar with (he's even used it _alongside_ Susano'o against Hashirama).


Apart from Kurama , other Bijuus are all at the same level or very close like their BD's explosion size in chapter 571 .



> PS would never have issues with Gamabunta, Rasa, the Third Raikage, or any of the Akatsuki, nor would Gaara be able to do anything powerful enough to be mistaken for it.


Like Hashirama and Tobirama never have issues with old Hiruzen and they weren't weakened before the last part of war . 



> It'd stomp all over each of them, and most of the Bijū themselves since it can tank Bijūdamas and devastate mountain ranges with the shockwave of a single slash (the Bijū can only destroy a mountain by hitting it with their Bijūdama).


[/QUOTE]
Bijuus can all tank their own BD so....


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 9, 2015)

Kom had 90 minutes of his life wiped away.


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## LostSelf (Oct 9, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> Raikage fought it by himself once.



Yes. But the Raikage is that man who fought for days straight against thousands of Shinobis.

I'm having a hard time believing he's going to be damaged by her punches when he took a Bijuudama. But Hachibi can be weak to Katsuyu's acid as he is to fire. Even though i see the Bijuu managing to ragdoll the slug with it's tentacles.

But yes, i can see her definitely winning, now that i think it better and with the panel Alex Payne provided about that whirlwind. But i thought the Paths survived because they could regenerate.

Edit: What the heck happened with Komnenos?


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## Bonly (Oct 9, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Even though i see the Bijuu managing to *ragdoll the slug* with it's tentacles.



Excuse you? How is Gyuki gonna ragdoll Katsuyu-Sama? Punch her? Jump on her? Tackle her? Choke her? I mean that's nice and all but those types of attacks aren't gonna hurt her when she can soak up the damage and be fine not to mention she can split into smaller clones of herself and while we're on the subject of it look at the DB page for her jutsu.


And Katsuyu-Sama can turn into a liquid state as well so rolling over her or her small clones are gonna do jack shit. So how is he gonna ragdoll someone he can't hurt while said person(slug) can hurt her with her acid bath of doom while avoiding damage?


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 9, 2015)

Acid is killing Gyuki? Didn't BM Bee tank a fucking lava wave?

Lmao he did [1] and then a bijuu horn attack [1], and then the 4 tails threw him down [1] [2]


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 9, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> You can't use the bijuudama tanking feats.  Hachibi loses to shuriken, and gets knocked out by the clash of his own bijuudama and Sandaime's finger.  But he but hops inside the mouth of the stage 2 juubi and clashed bijuudama point blank, and is okay through that.



Gyūki's *tentacles* were cut by shuriken, not his main body.

And he wasn't knocked out by the 'clash' of their techniques, they fell against each other while still holding their techniques. Can you read?

People keep saying Katsuyu's acid can do major damage - what feats even suggest that? Melting fissures in rock? Shouldn't come close to a Bijū's *lava*, which Gyūki treated as a minor annoyance.


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## LostSelf (Oct 9, 2015)

Bonly said:


> Excuse you? How is Gyuki gonna ragdoll Katsuyu-Sama? Punch her? Jump on her? Tackle her? Choke her? I mean that's nice and all but those types of attacks aren't gonna hurt her when she can soak up the damage and be fine not to mention she can split into smaller clones of herself and while we're on the subject of it look at the DB page for her jutsu.
> 
> And Katsuyu-Sama can turn into a liquid state as well so rolling over her or her small clones are gonna do jack shit. So how is he gonna ragdoll someone he can't hurt while said person(slug) can hurt her with her acid bath of doom while avoiding damage?



Just tentacler her out of the way. If he divides into miniclones, crush them with his tentacles.

However, if Katsuyu gets into her Forbidden One mode, being the destroyer of two genuises, then Hachibi si fodderized.


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## Trojan (Oct 9, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> People don't seem to notice that *Kishimoto is someone who continually change his mind and manga feats :*
> 
> Start of the manga/1st Databoot : Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage , Kyubi is stronger than anyone else , anyone can stand against him .
> 
> ...



Not the War Arc Gokage. But the Gokages in their time. I.E Tobirama, Mu, 2nd A, Gengetsu, and the Kazekage. 



Alex Payne said:


> Kishi wouldn't have used bijus as hype tools for 3rd A and Rasa if he "changed his mind". Not to mention that within Biju group you have Kyubi and Jubi - each standing above the rest.


Honestly, all the Bijuus, in term of raw power, showed more than the PS anyway. 
Madara's PS was only able to cut the tops of the mountains (in the War Arc, and in his battle against Hashirama)

Meanwhile, the Bijuu's TBBs were able to erase the entire mountains, not only the top.
As Kakashi stated


It's just a matter of "feats whoring" just like in the paste when even tho the Akatsuki defeated the Bijuus/Jins people claimed they can do absolutly nothing against TBBs just because they haven't
seen them dealing with such attacks on panel.


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## LostSelf (Oct 9, 2015)

Aren't the older Kages stronger than the war arc Gokage? I mean, at the vert least, Tobirama, Mu and Gengetsu were stronger than their war arc counter parts.


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## Trojan (Oct 9, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Aren't the older Kages stronger than the war arc Gokage? I mean, at the vert least, Tobirama, Mu and Gengetsu were stronger than their war arc counter parts.



I guess that will depend on how you see it, but it does not really matter. Kin/Gin's hype is about the area they
were alive in. Not about Gokages that came after them. The War Arc Gokage are not fixed Gokage for everyone
to base their level on them. 

People however ignore that just because of Tobirama being of the previous Gokages, and they can't get over it.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Oct 9, 2015)

Hachibi beats her down and outlast. She has not shown the ability to go on for three days or have bijuu level chakra amounts especially when she will be constantly having to heal from all his blows(horn impalement, hand crushing, biting).

His whirlwind can also get him out of any undesirable close range situation if need be.


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 9, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Aren't the older Kages stronger than the war arc Gokage? I mean, at the vert least, Tobirama, Mu and Gengetsu were stronger than their war arc counter parts.



3rd Raikage takes a shit on the 4th, lol. This was pretty much explicitly stated by Dodai.


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## Trojan (Oct 9, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> 3rd Raikage takes a shit on the 4th, lol. This was pretty much explicitly stated by Dodai.



The Raikage on Kin/Gin and Tobirama's time, was the 2nd, not the 3rd. 

but where did Dodai stated such a thing anyway?


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 9, 2015)

Hussain said:


> The Raikage on Kin/Gin and Tobirama's time, was the 2nd, not the 3rd.
> 
> but where did Dodai stated such a thing anyway?



Ah, right.

And when Dodai said 3rd was the only shinobi in Kumogakure's history capable of battling a Bijū head-on.


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## LostSelf (Oct 9, 2015)

Hussain said:


> I guess that will depend on how you see it, but it does not really matter. Kin/Gin's hype is about the area they
> were alive in. Not about Gokages that came after them. The War Arc Gokage are not fixed Gokage for everyone
> to base their level on them.
> 
> People however ignore that just because of Tobirama being of the previous Gokages, and they can't get over it.



I know. Just saying that, even if the hype is about those kages of their time, and those kages are superior to the war arc kages, then Gin/Kin has hype above those, too .


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## Trojan (Oct 9, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Ah, right.
> 
> And when Dodai said 3rd was the only shinobi in Kumogakure's history capable of battling a Bijū head-on.



Dodai did not say "in Kumo" he said the only Ninja in general
of the mountains 

as the others use means to do so (Sharingan's Genjutsu, Wood, Uzumaki's chains...etc)
and that does not really mean that he "shits" on others who can't necessarily do the same. Just like
how he lost to Narudo's clone



LostSelf said:


> I know. Just saying that, even if the hype is about those kages of their time, and those kages are superior to the war arc kages, then Gin/Kin has hype above those, too .



As I said, that will depends on how you see the 2nd Generation in comparison to the War Gokage. 
The different here, Kin/Gin being stronger than the 2nd generations of the Gokage is a FACT. However, the 2nd generation being stronger than the War Gokage is subjective. Thus, the one should be used is the first 1 because the statement is referring to them, and then if you see them stronger
than the War Gokages then that depends on you or the one you're debating. 

Even tho, when we come to compare them anyway
1- Onoki's jinton was equal to Mu, not weaker. The 4th Databook gave both of them the same exact elements. Other than that, Onoki in reality showed more jutsu than Mu and better feats overall (Due to having more time of course). The problem he was facing against Mu is really his old age only.

Other than that, Tsunade and even Mu himself agree than Onoki can stop Mu. 

2- 2nd Raikage has no feats or hype. The 4th have hype/feats of being the fastest (until things developed more) and having as much chakra as a Bijuu. 

3- 2nd Kazekage has no feats or hype. Gaara has feats, and already defeated the 4th as well. I see no reason to why we shouldn't take Gaara as the strongest Kazekage when his weaker brother is claimed to have surpassed Sasori. 

4- The 2nd Mizukage uses the Genjutsu as his main jutsu. Mei could really counter than with her
boil jutsu. Her water jutsu that she showed is much more impressive than the 2nd Mizukage as well.

and I honestly see Tobirama on the same level as the sannin if not weaker. 

that's why, in short, I am saying comparing the old with the new is irrelevant in the case of what
Kin/Gin's hype is referring to.

Especially when you know that A/B are actually hyped to be the strongest Tag-Team in Kumo anyway.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 9, 2015)

With Bijuudama restricted, I can see Tsunade and Gyuki beating each other to a draw, like what happened with the 3rd Raikage.


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 10, 2015)

I can't.

As a Bijū Gyūki has more stamina and can't be feasibly too hurt by her attacks. There's nothing to exhaust him, especially when she isn't particularly fast unlike the Raikage, meaning she'll be easy to land hits on.

Tsunade will be using exponentially more chakra healing from Gyūki's bone-breaking hits. Whereas Gyūki will sit there punching her hundreds of meters back repeatedly until she's out.

And @Hussain, the point of that quote is that based on Dodai's existing knowledge, he only is aware of the 3rd being capable of taking a Bijū singlehandedly. And because he should be knowledgeable on the 4th's abilities, that ultimately means Dodai thinks the 3rd is stronger.

Maybe not 'shit on' but the 3rd and 4th are essentially identical fighters style-wise, so there isn't much wiggle room for debate on who's stronger.


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## Bonly (Oct 10, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Just tentacler her out of the way.



How is that ragdolling her?



> If he divides into miniclones, crush them with his tentacles.



-"All physical attacks are nullified before this technique. No matter how violent the strike, it won't amount to more than a fruitless attempt. The enemy will just exhaust themselves accordingly and eventually fall to the ground."

-"Katsuyu-Sama can turn into a liquid state"

Ah how is he gonna crush her again?



> However, if Katsuyu gets into her Forbidden One mode, being the destroyer of two genuises, then Hachibi si fodderized.



She's always in that mode so she always solos


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 10, 2015)

> Tsunade will be using exponentially more chakra healing from Gyūki's bone-breaking hits.


Bone breaking? A single strike from Gyuki should pink mist her.

Katsuya isn't protecting her unless she leeches into her 5% body, in which case she may suffocate. 

Even then, Gyuki just sits there waiting for Tsunade to come out. Acid certainly isn't killing him.


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## Jad (Oct 10, 2015)

Man, if you guys are saying Tsunade can beat Hachibi after everything we've seen. You better be prepared to accept the fact that most characters around and above Tsunade can beat him as well.


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 10, 2015)

I don't think anyone is saying Tsunade wins apart from like two people.

Bijū are out of mid-tier Kages' league even with their strongest abilities restricted.

In my opinion, a single Bijū is just above high-Kage level (Sage Naruto, healthy Itachi, Minato) and on-par with Nine-Tails Chakra Mode Naruto.


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## Ersa (Oct 10, 2015)

Firepower wise yes but Minato and healthy Itachi can comfortably take down/seal any Bijuu bar Kurama and even then if MS hype is relevant there's a small chance Itachi could control him. I mean Shukaku struggled against Gamabunta 

That being said they are indeed above your standard Kage.


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 10, 2015)

Meh, I don't know how Minato can actually _take down_ a Bijū. He lacks anything destructive enough to do sufficient damage before he exhausts.

And the charge time for a Bijūdama vs. Amaterasu aren't too dissimilar, if the former gets launched Itachi isn't winning period, lol. Susanoo takes too long to be fully formed, too.

Genjutsu is a bitch, though.

  But as we saw in Sage Naruto vs. Kyūbi, high-tier Kage can put up a good fight against even the strongest Bijū. Still, I feel that in a typical setting, Bijūdama takes the cake the majority of the time unless you're super-fast like Nine-Tails Chakra Mode Naruto.


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## Ersa (Oct 10, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Meh, I don't know how Minato can actually _take down_ a Bijū. He lacks anything destructive enough to do sufficient damage before he exhausts.
> 
> And the charge time for a Bijūdama vs. Amaterasu aren't too dissimilar, if the former gets launched Itachi isn't winning period, lol. Susanoo takes too long to be fully formed, too.
> 
> ...


Redirecting their Bijuudama into them will do wonders, kinda like what the Juubi did to the Hachibi. Only Kurama can tank his Bijuudama and not be too phazed. And I'd bank on his repertoire of sealing jutsu to be helpful under the right conditions, _Shishō Fūin_ for example.

I'd actually give the edge to Amaterasu if you compare here *[1]*, Karin had time to run away and comment before B fired his Bijuudama while Sasuke's took two pages in total. Then you have quicker activation like Itachi instantly busting it out against the Toad Stomach and burning Cerberus faster then KCM Naruto could react (remember he reacted after the fire was cast).

Yep if the 3 tomoe can control Kurama I'm sure you'd agree the vastly weaker Bijuu 1-8 might be susceptible to the Mangekyo Sharingan.

I disagree, I think Kurama is more then a step above your average high Kage level opponent but his weaker brethren can be taken down by them. They have firepower yes but little else and most of them (Itachi, Minato, Nagato) can easily circumnavigate that one technique.


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 10, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> Redirecting their Bijuudama into them will do wonders, kinda like what the Juubi did to the Hachibi. Only Kurama can tank his Bijuudama and not be too phazed. And I'd bank on his repertoire of sealing jutsu to be helpful under the right conditions, _Shishō Fūin_ for example.



  But if Minato redirects the blast right back at the Tailed Beast, where is he going to go? He'll get caught up in the blast unless he warps away to the next zip code, at which point he won't be able to get back because all of his marking seals will have been vaporized, lol.



> I'd actually give the edge to Amaterasu if you compare here *[1]*, Karin had time to run away and comment before B fired his Bijuudama while Sasuke's took two pages in total. Then you have quicker activation like Itachi instantly busting it out against the Toad Stomach and burning Cerberus faster then KCM Naruto could react (remember he reacted after the fire was cast


).

Against the Toad stomach is a fair point, but we've seen high-end feats for Bijūdama charge time, i.e., Naruto charging one in the time it takes for Sasuke to load a Chidori for his Susanoo, Naruto and Gyūki firing multiple ones in the time it takes for Madara/Obito to exchange two sentences, etc.

Burning Cerberus isn't a feat of charge time. Amaterasu doesn't travel until it materializes just before the target, so how would have Naruto even reacted to it if he didn't know where Itachi was aiming his trajectory? That's why he was surprised when he saw the flames materialize, he wasn't expecting an apparent enemy to attack Nagato's summon.

[





> URL="http://s24.postimg.org/703sgrb85/manda.png"]Yep if the 3 tomoe can control Kurama[/URL] I'm sure you'd agree the vastly weaker Bijuu 1-8 might be susceptible to the Mangekyo Sharingan.



Probably. This depends on the circumstance that the Bijū look into Itachi's eyes in the first place. I can buy Kurama doing that since he's such a hateful little piece of shit and likes staring people down, but the other Bijū? They're more chill. 



> I disagree, I think Kurama is more then a step above your average high Kage level opponent but his weaker brethren can be taken down by them. They have firepower yes but little else and most of them (Itachi, Minato, Nagato) can easily circumnavigate that one technique.



Easily? I don't know about that. If the Bijū block Amaterasu with their tails as Gyūki did, and then proceed to fire a Bijūdama while their tails are still burning, the game's over. They could then cut off their tails to stop the burning. Nagato? I've yet to see him Shinra Tensei away a technique as powerful as Bijūdama barring his mega Shinra Tensei that would weaken him quite a bit.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 10, 2015)

Itachi would Genjutsu and torch any Bijuu with ease. He's built to slay them. Susano'o can block Bijuudama if need be.

Minato's not so lucky. But at least he's got Shiki Fujin.

In Tsunade's case, she will just have to settle for staying on top of Gyuki and taking advantage of her relatively small size to overwhelm him with blows while taking as few as possible. Totally doable, but guaranteed to wear her out due to the Hachibi's toughness and stamina.


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## Ersa (Oct 10, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> But if Minato redirects the blast right back at the Tailed Beast, where is he going to go? He'll get caught up in the blast unless he warps away to the next zip code, at which point he won't be able to get back because all of his marking seals will have been vaporized, lol.


I mean depending on his tags he could warp it just so he escapes the blast radius but the Bijuu gets caught in it, depending on the distance when the Bijuu fires it. Obviously the Bijuu might hold off on nuking him if he's close and might opt to tail slap him. Still think his sealing techniques could be useful, if not then it's quite possible he loses here.



> Against the Toad stomach is a fair point, but we've seen high-end feats for Bijūdama charge time, i.e., Naruto charging one in the time it takes for Sasuke to load a Chidori for his Susanoo, Naruto and Gyūki firing multiple ones in the time it takes for Madara/Obito to exchange two sentences, etc.


I mean it's inconsistent for both techniques. Not sure how I'd evaluate them but at least I'd say Amaterasu travels quicker at least in short distance (20-40m).



> Burning Cerberus isn't a feat of charge time. Amaterasu doesn't travel until it materializes just before the target, so how would have Naruto even reacted to it if he didn't know where Itachi was aiming his trajectory? That's why he was surprised when he saw the flames materialize, he wasn't expecting an apparent enemy to attack Nagato's summon.


I mean Naruto couldn't react to the actual flames travelling. The charge time is inconsistent as fuck, like it's literally as fast as the situation needs so I feel travel time is the next thing to look at.

1

He thinks Itachi missed which would imply until he realized Itachi had turned he thought he was the target of Amaterasu. And his late reaction probably suggests it's a fast technique since his reactions are top tier.



> Probably. This depends on the circumstance that the Bijū look into Itachi's eyes in the first place. I can buy Kurama doing that since he's such a hateful little piece of shit and likes staring people down, but the other Bijū? They're more chill.


Are they? The Bijuu without a host were pretty wild since they all hated humans and whatnot. If this is EOS Bijuu then yeah maybe but they'd still have to look at him and thus his eyes to see him, lol.



> Easily? I don't know about that. If the Bijū block Amaterasu with their tails as Gyūki did, and then proceed to fire a Bijūdama while their tails are still burning, the game's over. They could then cut off their tails to stop the burning. Nagato? I've yet to see him Shinra Tensei away a technique as powerful as Bijūdama barring his mega Shinra Tensei that would weaken him quite a bit.


I'm pretty sure they'd be in too much pain to do this as Gyuki showed. And I know this will trigger you but I would offer the *possibility* that the Mirror could save his ass from weaker variants of Bijuudama so there's that too. 

I'd bank on a healthy/Edo Nagato being in decent shape after using CST to send a Bijuudama back at the Bijuu. Anyways we're kinda derailing the thread lol. Way I see it.

Kurama > High tier Kage [Edo Itachi,Nagato] > Bijuu 1-8 > Standard Kage [Ei, Tsunade]

I mean you have to remember Deidara of all people managed to capture a Bijuu.


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## FlamingRain (Oct 10, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> I never rejected that.



Then you can either try showing that something actually happened or just concede that the bomb (and not a Genjutsu) knocked out Isobu.



> The old databooks also said that Hiruzen beats Hashirama and Tobirama who weren't weakened and that Hashirama's strongest Jutsu is Jukai Koutan



They were stated to be toying with him in the manga (the databook says that the fight was like a boring pastime for Orochimaru), meaning they may as well have been weakened (they could have been and we just learned about it later).

I don't know where Hashirama's Jukai Kōtan is called his strongest technique either, but even if it did say that it doesn't mean the rest of what the databook says ought to be thrown out. Hashirama being retconned has little to do with the Tailed Beasts' track record against Kage-levels such as Deidara (which leaves Madara's full Susano'o out of their league).

By all appearances Deidara ended that fight with that bomb.



> Apart from Kurama , other Bijuus are all at the same level or very close like their BD's explosion size in chapter 571 .



I don't think that by itself suggests that they're on the same level, seeing as they don't really look smaller than 100% Kurama's in the flashbacks about Naruto's birthday and the Valley of the End, even though Kurama is far stronger than the others are.

There could just be a default Bijūdama size that they used in that instance or something.



> Like Hashirama and Tobirama never have issues with old Hiruzen and they weren't weakened before the last part of war .



They wouldn't have if they'd treated Hiruzen like he could be dangerous.

Orochimaru was having them play with old Hiruzen to _mess with him_ _emotionally_, as evidenced by Sarutobi living past here _here_, _here_,  _here_, and _here_.

Like I said earlier in this post, they could have been weaker before the war and we just weren't told that until then (we weren't told _how much_ weaker they were, and we can see that power inflation _affected old Hiruzen as well_), but even if the Edo Tensei were retconned that doesn't mean that the Bijū were as well. Those fights all _still happened_.



> Bijuus can all tank their own BD so....



They get injured by them _(1)_ _(2)_, which is probably why Madara shielded Kurama from his Bijūdama with Susano'o _(3)_.

Worse might happen if they're not being controlled by somebody, and a slash is also different than an explosion.

Madara would wreck them.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Oct 11, 2015)

If Tsunade's punches are struggling to inflict any considerable damage, she uses a Rashinshou and immobilises Gyuki. It isn't intelligent enough by itself to figure out how to overcome its effects. Between Tsunade's strikes and Katsuyu's acid, it goes down _eventually_. But Tsunade probably needs to use up the majority of her chakra to win.​​


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 11, 2015)

Katsuyu burns Gyuki with acid then Tsunade interrupts its chakra flow and movements with Ranshinsho. Tsunade can break a susanoo ribcage in one attack so that strength will be useful in this battle,


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## Rocky (Oct 12, 2015)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> If Tsunade's punches are struggling to inflict any considerable damage, she uses a Rashinshou and immobilises Gyuki. It isn't intelligent enough by itself to figure out how to overcome its effects. Between Tsunade's strikes and Katsuyu's acid, it goes down _eventually_. But Tsunade probably needs to use up the majority of her chakra to win.​​



Rashinshou working on a giant chakra Ox is a dubious assumption to me. 

Tsunade can compete if she finds a way around Tailed Beast Bomb. Her superhuman body strength and regeneration should keep her from being physically overwhelmed. 

Problem is, she's probably going to run out of steam before it does. It's a Bijū.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

Ranshisho sends electrfied chakra into the system to juggle up your nerves. it will take longer to work on a giant chakra ox but will eventually put it down, at which point acid slime melts that ox into a lump of mould.

Bijuu bomb won't even get out. Assuming it does Tsunade hides in Katsuyu. whatever of the explosion gets to her is regenerates by Sozo Saisei or Byakugo.

Tsuna won't run out of steam first. Karin said Raikage has bijou level chakra. She has only seen the 8 tails so can only compare gyuki to raikage. raikage ran out of chakra long before tsunade did in the gokage fight, and tsunade did more in  that fight such as make oonoki jingo bijou sized, take on the lead against madara, pummel some susanoo clones while raikage almost got killed by genjutsu knockout + susanoo sword combo attack and Tsunade has more chairs since when a puts all his ration chakra into his hand he can only dent susanno whereas tsunamis chakra enhanced strength shattered it. Tsunade tanked Cst by putting chakra into katsuyu and healed the whole village, and did so in the second war, which is what won konoha the war, and also did so in the fourth war, shortly before orochimaru and taka started heading towards sasuke after sasuke got stabbed my madra. Tsunades reserves are way higher. she has the chakra to use a juts on the same scale that hashirama used it, even though he was said to be on another scale in every juts.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

Tsunade put manda to sleep, tanked CST, healed a battlefield during a war, twice, healed all of konoha, broke susanoo that Raikage+Onoki couldn't even scratch, and also she is a senju, the clan of 1000 skills, so knows fuinjutsu, and is an uzumaki, so knows fuinjutsu, is in the same team as the guys who used gogyo fuin, goyo fuuin release, and shiki fujjin, and is the granddaughter of the man who sealed bijou, and if tsunade has her necklace in this scenario it will help.Fuinjutsu seals chakra, which bijuus are made out of, Fuuinjutu > Bijuus


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 12, 2015)

'acid slime melts that ox into a pile of mould'

'tsunade + Katsuyu's tanks Bijūdama'

LOL

Tsunade supporters are getting more delusional by the second


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Oct 12, 2015)

Have people forgotten how powerful a TBB can be?

Talking about the ball version that erase mountains not that beam version(which usually has underwhelming feats like hachibi vs taka and kyuubi vs SM naruto).


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

TastyMuff - good sir, Tsunade tanked CST and mini katsuyus did that. Im not delusional. Read the chakra capacity stuff i wrote. If Gyuki is so good why did he allow his jinchuriki to lose to a fake kisame who is weaker than the real kisame who said he can't even compete on the same level as a sannin. And tell me why Raikage who wrestled Gyuki and won, was stated by Madara to be weaker than Tsunade.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

pinksuitblackguy - read what i said to TastyMuff-Muff


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## Godaime Tsunade (Oct 12, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Rashinshou working on a giant chakra Ox is a dubious assumption to me.
> 
> Tsunade can compete if she finds a way around Tailed Beast Bomb. Her superhuman body strength and regeneration should keep her from being physically overwhelmed.
> 
> Problem is, she's probably going to run out of steam before it does. It's a Bijū.



It has a nervous system, so I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Tailed Beast Bomb is restricted.

As far as chakra goes, she possesses bijuu levels if she has as much stored up as she did during the Pein fight. Probably less than Gyuki, but still.​​


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## t0xeus (Oct 12, 2015)

Gotta side with Godaime Tsunade here, Rashinshou should demolish Gyuki and she can tank any of his attacks, but I do believe even normal punches would work here.


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 12, 2015)

Tank his hits?

Sure, if by tank you mean have her bones shattered by a single punch that decked a Bijū hundreds of meters if not a kilometer, yeah. Between regenerating from that kind of damage and Gyūki merely throwing punches on a relatively slow character, do you people seriously think Gyūki is the one who's going to go down first?

Really? You all have yet to prove Katsuyu's acid can even _hurt_ Gyūki aside from pure speculation, so if we're going to put conjecture aside (as every good debate should), Katsuyu is - offensively - a non-factor.

And no lol, saying Rashinshō should work on Gyūki purely because he has a nervous system because it worked on Kabuto is the very definition of a no-limits fallacy.

That's like saying Dosu's sound-based ninjutsu would work equally effectively on Gyūki as did Lee because they both have ears and brains.

Jesus Christ, lol.


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## t0xeus (Oct 12, 2015)

You are seriously overrating Gyuki and also you count in his feats while being in Jinchuuriki, which is confirmed makes bijuu stronger.

Sandaime Raikage could tank his shit with no problem and Tsunade was able to reproduce his feat of being able to get transported by Heavenly Transfer Technique with no trouble, I just don't see her dying from Hachibi's punches, which she may even be able to dodge or just take.


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 12, 2015)

t0xeus said:


> You are seriously overrating Gyuki and also you count in his feats while being in Jinchuuriki, which is confirmed makes bijuu stronger.
> 
> Sandaime Raikage could tank his shit with no problem and Tsunade was able to reproduce his feat of being able to get transported by Heavenly Transfer Technique with no trouble, I just don't see her dying from Hachibi's punches, which she may even be able to dodge or just take.



I'm not overrating Gyūki. I simply find his physical feats far surpassing Tsunade's, which isn't at all unfounded given he's a Bijū and has survived his fair share of damage far greater than Tsunade could ever inflict - i.e., getting hit by the freakin' _Jūbi_.

When it is said that a Bijū becomes stronger with a Jinchūriki, that's because the Jinchūriki can work with the Bijū and utilize its powers effectively. Here, this is just a physical brawl. So that's irrelevant.

So by your last paragraph, are you trying to insinuate that because Sandaime and Tsunade survived the Heavenly Transfer technique, means they have equal durability?

So do you also rationalize, by your amazing logic, that because Kakuzu with his Domū armor and Naruto in his Six Paths Sage Mode would both survive Nikudan Sensha unscratched, means they have equal durability?

Did you also forget to take into account that Sandaime was reputably _unscathed_ by the Heavenly Transfer while Tsunade was ripped open like a cucumber?

Does this also mean you think Tsunade can tank a Rasenshuriken?

Finally, do you actually think Tsunade can dodge Gyūki's hits when his striking speed was fast enough to catch a speeding V2 Jinchūriki?


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## Rocky (Oct 12, 2015)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> It has a nervous system, so I don't see why it wouldn't work.



I don't know if that's even true, but assuming it is, I definitely don't know if this 100ft chakra ox nervous system is at all comparable to a human one.



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Tailed Beast Bomb is restricted.



Oh. 

Well then it's a stalemate until one of them tires. My money would be on the bijū winning the stamina contest, but I suppose it's dependent on the Byakugō no In's chakra volume at the time of the fight.


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## Sans (Oct 12, 2015)

Rocky's dumb flying Sasori shows up on an iron sand cloud and poisons them both.


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## Sans (Oct 12, 2015)

Why am I still rep sealed!

What the fuck!!!


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## Nikushimi (Oct 12, 2015)

As always, there's some unfair treatment of both combatants.

These facts should be a given:

-Tsunade with her natural durability, chakra supply, healing, and Katsuyu should be fully capable of enduring Bijuudama.

-Tsunade has the physical strength necessary to tango with Gyuki like the 3rd Raikage did.

-Acid is not doing much to the Hachibi besides causing some discomfort.


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 13, 2015)

except Bijūdama >>> CST so it's baseless to claim tsunade could survive anything of that scale

besides Bijūdama is restricted ya dunce

What you don't realize is that 3rd had two advantages tsunade doesn't that'll cripple her

And that is mega-durability and piercing attacks

Tsunade's blunt force hits will be casually overpowered by Gyūki

Can't say the same for Nukite can ya now

Tsunade has Byakugō instead of durability, but that'll just drain her *relative* to a Gyūki that's just throwing casual punches

At least against 3rd Gyūki used Bijūdama so it being drained made sense

Casual punches will not fucking drain a Bijū

tldr Tsunade gets rekt


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## t0xeus (Oct 13, 2015)

@ATastyMuffin Yeah, obviously it doesn't mean her durability is on the same level as his, but her regeneration makes up for that, as I have mentioned the Heavenly-transfer feat, and when Tsunade survives pressure that literally tears her whole body apart, I don't see her dying to Gyuki's punches, tail strikes or whatever.

Btw do you seriously think that Gyuki survives getting hit in head by Tsunade, or do you just assume he dodges/counterattacks ?


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 13, 2015)

I didn't say Tsunade would be one-shotted or even killed by Gyūki's punches 

But they are obviously fucking stronger than hers and when they land, they're going to leave a big ass mark and that includes bones broken seven ways to Sunday

You know what it costs to regenerate your skeleton from being crushed? Chakra, in the form of Byakugō

So you tell me, what will obviously drain faster: Gyūki's chakra from throwing punches here and there that won't miss because tsunade's speed can be summed up by a picture of her own summon, relatively

Or Tsunade regenerating again and again from getting ragdolled 

I think it's kinda obvious

And yes, not only do I think a dude who took the Jūbi's hits can survive fucking tsunade's punches, I also don't think it would ever come to that. Return upon my point of Tsunade being slow as fuck and you'll see why a Bijū who caught V2 Jinchūriki out of the air wouldn't have troubles swatting her out of the sky each and every time

Ergo, tsunade won't even get close enough to punch him

Not with eight tails slapping her like the hoe she is and Gyūki's faster punches bludgeoning her body every time she approaches


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## t0xeus (Oct 13, 2015)

Alright, fair enough, you changed my mind.

So unless Rashinsho or Chakra scalpel work, she won't win as Gyuki outlasts her.


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## Kyu (Oct 13, 2015)

Apparently the ox could handle Sandaime Raikage's speed since he wasn't impaled through the skull for the duration of their fight. While agile in her own right, Tsunade is significantly slower than A sr., therefore Gyuki shouldn't have issues keeping up or countering in a one on one bout. 

Katsuyu constantly respawning on Gyuki may distract him, allowing Tsunade to aim for his eyes with Chakra Scalpels. I'm not sold on Tsunade's haymakers doing critical damage to Gyuki - he isn't a big bitch like Gamabunta.

If she doesn't opt for Katsuyu, it'll probably come down to a battle of attrition in which she isn't besting a biju in, unless an _absurd_ amount of chakra is stored in that seal of hers.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 13, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> What if Tsunade flips it into a pool of Katsuyu's acid?



That's even better than Jiraiya using his hair to dunk someone into Yomi Numa.


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 13, 2015)

Katsuyu's acid is pussy shit

Let it be known


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 13, 2015)

So you, sir tasty muffin, cat aspersions upon my literacy some days ago.  



> Can you read?



I am appalled by your audacity and disregard for tact, as well as your poor debate etiquette and derisive - otherwise non-constructive manner of discussion.  I mean to inform you that you shan't convince anyone of dignity with such language, and would have said as much sooner, had I not needed to wait upon someone to read to me your post.


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 13, 2015)

tl;dr the pirate hates muffins


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 13, 2015)

I don't truly have an opinion of you.


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 13, 2015)

I can't tell if you're pissed about the can't read comment or just fucking around


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## FlamingRain (Oct 13, 2015)

Bee used Gyūki's hand to block Itachi's Katon'd Shuriken and still complained about them being hot.

Utakata's alkaline made a Bee that was fully-transformed into Gyūki drop him.

Zesshi Nensan should be able to hurt the oxtopus.


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 13, 2015)

I don't even know why you're bringing up Utakata's alkaline as if it's logical that Katsuyu should b scaled to him, as there's literally no basis for it.

Neither should Killer Bee's tiny (relatively) transformed hand be equated to the full Bijū's, strength or durability-wise.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Oct 13, 2015)

Rocky said:


> I don't know if that's even true, but assuming it is, I definitely don't know if this 100ft chakra ox nervous system is at all comparable to a human one.



It's an animal, so I'm going to assume that it does.



> but I suppose it's dependent on the Byakugō no In's chakra volume at the time of the fight.



I agree.​​


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## Rocky (Oct 13, 2015)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> It's an animal, so I'm going to assume that it does.​​



Well I was at the zoo the other day, and I would have made sure not to miss the fifty-meter, eight-tailed-octopus-ox-thing exhibit.


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## FlamingRain (Oct 13, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> I don't even know why you're bringing up Utakata's alkaline as if it's logical that Katsuyu should b scaled to him, as there's literally no basis for it.



Saiken hasn't done anything besides corrode trees, which dissolving rock outshines, and not _all_ of the unique skills of the Bijū surpass those of the boss summons, as shown when two of Gamabunta's Teppōdama could cancel out four of Shukaku's Renkūdan.

But the point is that you don't have to be hit-from-the-Jūbi destructive to hurt a Bijū.

There is no basis for Gyūki being able to just tank the acid...



> Neither should Killer Bee's tiny (relatively) transformed hand be equated to the full Bijū's, strength or durability-wise.



What difference is there? They're made out of the same thing.


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## Alex Payne (Oct 13, 2015)

Shukaku with all his pride in defense got his arm cut off by Bunta - Katsuyu's peer. Just sayan.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 13, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Well I was at the zoo the other day, and I would have made sure not to miss the fifty-meter, eight-tailed-octopus-ox-thing exhibit.



If you look at how the kyuubi forms around Naruto in staged, you can see that it forms a bone structure, a muscular system, a circulatory system, and bleeds.  I didn't pay attention, but rightly it should have nerves as well.


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## Sans (Oct 13, 2015)

Didn't Ei chop through the horn, which should be by far the toughest part of Atlantic Storm's body?

(He is the Hachibi.)

**


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## Alex Payne (Oct 13, 2015)

You wouldn't be able to genjutsu bijus without them having nervous system of some sort. I am somewhat skeptical about Ranshinsho working. Amount of electrical current required to mess with an adult body should be quite lower than that of a gargantuan "animal". Or maybe not - I have no background in neuroscience. Still, Byakugo-boost might do the trick.


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## Rocky (Oct 13, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> If you look at how the kyuubi forms around Naruto in staged, you can see that it forms a bone structure, a muscular system, a circulatory system, and bleeds.  I didn't pay attention, but rightly it should have nerves as well.



Maybe. I see your point, but I don't like to make specific assumptions about the major organ systems of bijū when characters like Sasori, Hidan, and the SPOP exist. 

Moving past that, the opinion that a tiny electrical current will produce the same effect on a gigantic bodybuilding Ox that it did on a scrawny human is dubious to me.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 13, 2015)

Well, bijuu feel.  

Raishinsho would maybe need to be byako boosted, like AP said.  Converting a large amount of chakra into electricity should work proportionately, if nothing else.


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## Rocky (Oct 13, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Well, bijuu feel.



So did Nagato's dead puppets. Hidan also spoke without lungs, and Sasori did many things without a brain.  

I don't like to make any scientific assertions about the body makeup of non-human or partially human characters without confirmation from the author. 



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Raishinsho would maybe need to be byako boosted, like AP said.  Converting a large amount of chakra into electricity should work proportionately, if nothing else.



I didn't really think of that. I suppose it's possible. Funny to picture, but possible.

Maybe Tsunade was actually the alliance's best option against the Ten Tails.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Oct 14, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Well I was at the zoo the other day, and I would have made sure not to miss the fifty-meter, eight-tailed-octopus-ox-thing exhibit.



Giant, fictional animals are still animals. Just because it can do nonsensical things like spit laser beams and squirt ink oceans everywhere, it doesn't mean it somehow stops needing a central nervous system.

I don't know if the Juubi was an animal though, I think it was just a big mass of chakra.​​


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## LostSelf (Oct 14, 2015)

But shouldn't the Bijuus be mass of chakra? Or at least, that's what i've always thought.


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## Rocky (Oct 14, 2015)

The Jūbi is a bijū. If the the Hachibi is an animal, then so is the Jūbi. 



			
				GT said:
			
		

> Giant, fictional animals are still animals.



It isn't a giant fictional animal. There isn't a mamma Hachibi and a papa Hachibi. 

It's a portion of the Jūbi's chakra shaped into some sort of ox-octopus hybrid with huge biceps by the Sage of the Six Paths. 



			
				GT said:
			
		

> Just because it can do nonsensical things like spit laser beams and squirt ink oceans everywhere, it doesn't mean it somehow stops needing a central nervous system.



It was never said to have a central nervous system to begin with, and there are many creatures in the Narutoverse that don't require one to operate. Giant chakra monsters requiring the same organs as humans to function is not some sort of likely assumption.


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## Shinryu (Oct 14, 2015)

Gyuki's hand swipe would kill Tsunade


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 14, 2015)

You know the Hachibi had fodder go into combat against it and live.


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## FlamingRain (Oct 14, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> But shouldn't the Bijuus be mass of chakra? Or at least, that's what i've always thought.



_They look like more than a mass of Chakra_.



Rocky said:


> The Jūbi is a bijū. If the the Hachibi is an animal, then so is the Jūbi.



What type of animal is it, though?



> It was never said to have a central nervous system to begin with, and there are many creatures in the Narutoverse that don't require one to operate.



A moving and tactile creature ought to be assumed to have a nervous system like the animals it's a hybridized version of until demonstrated otherwise, no?


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## Rocky (Oct 14, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> What type of animal is it, though?



Some sort of ox/octopus fusion. That doesn't actually exist. None of the Tailed Beasts resemble actual animals. Furthermore, they weren't born, and they don't reproduce. They seemingly don't need food or water, and they are immortal.

None of this applies to an ox. None of this applies to an octopus. None of this would apply to some genetically mutated ox-octopus freakshow. Mostly all of it applies to the Jūbi. The Jūbi & Hachibi are far, _far_ more similar than the Hachibi and an octopus. 



FlamingRain said:


> A moving and tactile creature ought to be assumed to have a nervous system like the animals it's a hybridized version of until demonstrated otherwise, no?



Movement and tactility do not always require organs in this particular manga world. Edo Tensei are made out of dirt, and Sasori functioned perfectly with nothing but a heart. Thus, there is reason for doubt. 

If it were just a normal octopus, then I'd probably find Godaime Tsunade's assumption less dubious. It isn't though. It's fraction of a chakra god, essentially.


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## FlamingRain (Oct 14, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Some sort of ox/octopus fusion.



I meant the Jūbi.

That thing is weird looking.



> Movement and tactility do not always require organs in this particular manga world. Edo Tensei are made out of dirt, and Sasori functioned perfectly with nothing but a heart. Thus, there is reason for doubt.



Edo Tensei have been paralyzed and otherwise incapacitated like they could have been in life, suggesting the material they're made of is being used in place of normal biological structures.

If Kurama's Chakra transformed into a skeletal structure accompanied by a muscular system soon after the same principle may very well apply to the Tailed Beasts.


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## Rocky (Oct 14, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> I meant the Jūbi.



No idea then. Ten-Tailed Cyclops, perhaps?



FlamingRain said:


> Edo Tensei have been paralyzed and otherwise incapacitated like they could have been in life, suggesting the material they're made of is being used in place of normal biological structures.



That's a fair point. The Edo Tensei have been generally inconsistent with how they work, though. Itachi bleeds from his eye, but doesn't bleed when split in two. Triple A, the epitome of human body toughness and endurance, was completely incapacitated by a stab wound, yet Tobirama performed an elite jutsu with half of his body missing. Infinite Tsukuyomi didn't work on them, but Koto Amatsukami did. They're a mess.

By the way, I'm not asserting that you two are wrong about this. I said it was a dubious assumption, not a demonstrably false one. Some sort of super-boosted Ranshinshō is a theoretical pathway to victory (though it may look too absurd to ever actually happen on panel), but I played the other side in this one because it's certainly debatable.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 14, 2015)

The juubi is a Picasso imitation come to life.

To answer your earlier objections, I think Hidan can be raishinsho'd.  Sasori's puppet body can't, but the heart itself could.  Edo's could, because they only turn into paper mache when they're inflicted with damage.  At all other times, their paper mache is transfigured into a replica of their living body.



> Some sort of super-boosted Ranshinshō is a theoretical pathway to victory (though it may look too absurd to ever actually happen on panel)



I used to think this until kage and elite jonin and Madara started bodying bijuu left and right.  Guy kicked the toe in on the Gedo Mazo and made it fall over, and Kakashi ran around on it spamming raiden to cut it up and lasso it to the floor.  If you had asked me before those scenes if it was possible, I'd have said no, and even if they could approach it, kicking to make it howl and fall over is too stupid to ever happen on panel.  But then it did, and Obito put it behind Uchiha no Jutsu because that was working well enough that he feared the Gedo was going to be destroyed.

Not to mention Kakashi with a kunai and Base Guy took on 4 bijuus and did fine until they all used bijuudama.


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## Rocky (Oct 14, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> To answer your earlier objections, I think Hidan can be raishinsho'd.  Sasori's puppet body can't, but the heart itself could.  Edo's could, because they only turn into paper mache when they're inflicted with damage.  At all other times, their paper mache is transfigured into a replica of their living body.



Hidan could be, but Sasori has no brain. So he's a no go. Don't know about the Edo Tensei.



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I used to think this until kage and elite jonin and Madara started bodying bijuu left and right.



The 3rd Raikage tied one. Gai fire-punched a gas cloud and almost got himself & Kakashi blown up. Madara auto-won because magical eyes, but he's a Tippy Top Tier, so he should be capable of bodying them anyway.

Raikiri tripwire was probably the most ridiculous thing, but even that's more fathomable than Tsunade tapping the back of Gyūki and winning.


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## Alex Payne (Oct 14, 2015)

You know Rocky. It is kinda difficult taking your posts seriously with that avatar of yours. 

And some examples to add to PoW's post - Hachibi was stopped and then pushed back by _Suigetsu_. Hits Karin with one of his tentacles(when basically berserking due to pian) and simply passes Amaterasu. That's why I don't buy "omg biju-lvl tackle is enough to erase Tsunade". But I am not so sure about Ranshinsho either. That move is plagued by "lol Part 1" and it actually was countered pretty quickly the only time it was used. Come to think of it -  Hachibi might as well be affected and simply rampage around without control of his movements. That would still mess Tsunade up because both power and toughness stayed the same.


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## Rocky (Oct 14, 2015)

Alex Payne said:


> You know Rocky. It is kinda difficult taking your posts seriously with that avatar of yours.







Alex Payne said:


> And some examples to add to PoW's post - Hachibi was stopped and then pushed back by _Suigetsu_.



And then he got blown up.



Alex Payne said:


> That's why I don't buy "omg biju-lvl tackle is enough to erase Tsunade".



Er, I don't buy that either. She's like, nearly as strong as it.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 14, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I used to think this until kage and elite jonin and Madara started bodying bijuu left and right.  *Guy kicked the toe in on the Gedo Mazo and made it fall over, and Kakashi ran around on it spamming raiden to cut it up and lasso it to the floor.  I*f you had asked me before those scenes if it was possible, I'd have said no, and even if they could approach it, kicking to make it howl and fall over is too stupid to ever happen on panel.  But then it did, and Obito put it behind Uchiha no Jutsu because that was working well enough that he feared the Gedo was going to be destroyed.
> 
> Not to mention Kakashi with a kunai and Base Guy took on 4 bijuus and did fine until they all used bijuudama.


That never happened. It was Naruto and Bee who knocked the Gedo Mazo over.


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## Alex Payne (Oct 14, 2015)

Rocky said:


> And then he got blown up.


By bijudama, yeah. But he was able to somewhat challenge Hachibi in that brief period of time. Suigetsu can at least be an actual nuisance physically. Sasuke cuts a tentacle off with casual Eiso swing. Killer B complains when Itachi's random crispy shurikens hit his partial transformation. Do you think Ranshinsho(Or Byakugo-powered Ranshinsho) is on the lower level than those moves? Mechanics aside.


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## Hachibi (Oct 14, 2015)

ITT: People discussing weird animal physology.

This is kind of funny if you put it that way.


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## Rocky (Oct 14, 2015)

Alex Payne said:


> By bijudama, yeah. But he was able to somewhat challenge Hachibi in that brief period of time. Suigetsu can at least be an actual nuisance physically. Sasuke cuts a tentacle off with casual Eiso swing. Killer B complains when Itachi's random crispy shurikens hit his partial transformation. Do you think Ranshinsho(Or Byakugo-powered Ranshinsho) is on the lower level than those moves? Mechanics aside.



My original point was that Tsunade soloing the Eight Tails with Ranshinshō is too absurd to appear in manga. It had nothing to do with the actual thread; I admitted that it's theoretically possible. 

If you want to do the portrayal stuff:

Suigetsu would bear hug Kabuto and drown him. Suigetsu annoyed B then got obliterated. 

Chidori Spear would maim Kabuto. Sasuke beat B with the Mangekyō, not with Chidori Spear.

Burning metal shuriken would shred Kabuto. They caused B minor discomfort.

Tsunade shut down Kabuto with Rashinshō, but he recovered and was at no apparent disadvantage. Does portrayal indicate that Rashinshō beats B?


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 14, 2015)

Falling forward.

They drug it down into Bee and Naruto's uppercut, and that knocked it sideways.

Though seriously, if Naruto's strength is enough to contribute to cold cocking the Gedo, who can stop a mountain sammich, Tsunade should be able to lay some hurt on the Hachibi with her own strength.  Likewise if Base Guy can crush the pinky with a kick.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 14, 2015)

> Come to think of it - Hachibi might as well be affected and simply rampage around without control of his movements.



He probably would.  But his strength would be cut since his body is fighting against itself, as would his ability to aim and defend.  It would allow Tsunade to hit him, and Katsuya to acid blast him without proper defence.  Any Karin tankable flailing won't be a problem for them, and sets up for a win.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 14, 2015)

> Hidan could be, but Sasori has no brain. So he's a no go. Don't know about the Edo Tensei.



That edos could be effected by paralyzing toxins tells me yes.  Nerve toxins are reliant on a functional nervous system.


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## Rocky (Oct 14, 2015)

Even obvious conclusions are called into question when dealing with Edo Tensei.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 14, 2015)

> Triple A, the epitome of human body toughness and endurance, was completely incapacitated by a stab wound, yet Tobirama performed an elite jutsu with half of his body missing.



The Senju have a different type of toughness E people don't, which Kishimoto often refers to as "life force."  It's more along the lines of this:

1
1
1

It's subtle but consistent distinction that allows for people like Triple E to fall over if you exceed their defences, but people like Tsunade to act when cut in half.


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## Rocky (Oct 14, 2015)

I always defined the ability of ninja to fight through damage as resilience. The A's weren't un-resilient though. When you nonchalantly chop of your burning arm so you can resume beating that Uchiha ass, you are resilient.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 14, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> except Bijūdama >>> CST so it's baseless to claim tsunade could survive anything of that scale



That's where you're wrong.

Tsunade divided her chakra and Katsuyu chunks among _an entire village of people_, and each of them individually withstood CST. Imagine if she pooled all that chakra for her own defense AND kept Katsuyu intact.



> besides Bijūdama is restricted ya dunce



It was being argued anyway; just wanted to weigh in.



> What you don't realize is that 3rd had two advantages tsunade doesn't that'll cripple her
> 
> And that is mega-durability and piercing attacks
> 
> ...



If all the 3rd had was Nukite, the Hachibi could've just bit the bullet and swatted him like a fly, and damage soak whatever cut he gets from it. Obviously, just pinning the 3rd to the ground wasn't an option; you'd be hard-pressed to show that the 3rd is physically stronger than Tsunade, so it's not like Tsunade is just getting pinned or eaten or anything.

As for durability, she's plenty durable if she can take a Magatama to the stomach without it even breaking the skin. Although she's a far cry from the 3rd in that department, she also has regenerative abilities that he doesn't; they're what allowed her to replicate his feat of surviving through Mabui's teleportation.



> Tsunade has Byakugō instead of durability, but that'll just drain her *relative* to a Gyūki that's just throwing casual punches



Look at it this way: She's not having to maintain Raiton armor or pump inordinate amounts of chakra into her Shunshin, which seems to be the staple Raikage fighting style.

Granted, Byakugo/Souzou Saisei can't be used as casually; she still has Katsuyu backing her up.



> At least against 3rd Gyūki used Bijūdama so it being drained made sense
> 
> Casual punches will not fucking drain a Bijū
> 
> tldr Tsunade gets rekt



Don't forget, Katsuyu makes it two-on-one; even if the Hachibi is not losing massive chunks of its stamina through Bijuudama use, it's fighting two enemies that can absorb its attacks almost indefinitely together.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 14, 2015)

Rocky said:


> I always defined the ability of ninja to fight through damage as resilience. The A's weren't un-resilient though. When you nonchalantly chop of your burning arm so you can resume beating that Uchiha ass, you are resilient.



I don't know if I should go too into this because it's straying a little far from the Bulbasaur-Picasso raishinsho debate, or if you're interested enough in it.  If you think it's cool, I'll split ropes with you.


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## UchihaX28 (Oct 15, 2015)

It's difficult to say.

 Sakura literally has the strength to knock out a Boss Sized Summon in one blow.

 Tsunade is far stronger than that excluding Byakugo, so it's possible she can land powerful blows on the Hachibi despite his insane durability compared to other Boss Sized Summons.

 I'd give it to the Hachibi though due to the Bijuudama though it would be difficult if Tsunade resorts to Katsuyu.


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## UchihaX28 (Oct 15, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> That's where you're wrong.
> 
> Tsunade divided her chakra and Katsuyu chunks among _an entire village of people_, and each of them individually withstood CST. Imagine if she pooled all that chakra for her own defense AND kept Katsuyu intact.



 Not to mention Suigetsu tanked Hachibi's Bijuudama.

 Katsuyu >> Suigetsu.


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## Rocky (Oct 15, 2015)

Broly tanked Kamehameha.

Suigetsu looked like a melted candle after Bijūdama.


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## UchihaX28 (Oct 15, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Broly tanked Kamehameha.
> 
> Suigetsu looked like a melted candle after Bijūdama.



 And Katsuyu won't due to being far more durable.


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## Rocky (Oct 15, 2015)

Suigetsu in that form has one durability showing.

Katsuyu has none that are comparable.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 15, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> It's difficult to say.
> 
> Sakura literally has the strength to knock out a Boss Sized Summon in one blow.
> 
> ...



Bijuudama is restricted.


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## Cormag (Oct 27, 2015)

tsunade isn't winning this for sure.


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## Braiyan (Oct 27, 2015)

Gyuki still has ink clones for sealing no? I would think having to deal with those and the Hachibi's sheer strength would lead to her losing eventually.


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