# DD vs Luffy.



## Extravlad (Apr 27, 2015)

DD vs Luffy without Law's help.
What difficulty does DD need to take down Luffy?

No restrictions.


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## ShadoLord (Apr 27, 2015)

Luffy with G4 will need Fresh Doflamingo high-diff to take down. 

If parasite isn't restricted and no PIS, Luffy gets mid-diff.


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## Kaiser (Apr 27, 2015)

Wave said:


> Luffy with G4 will need Fresh Doflamingo high-diff to take down.
> 
> If parasite isn't restricted and no PIS, Luffy gets mid-diff.


Basically this, until we actually find the counter to parasite


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## MYJC (Apr 27, 2015)

Based on what we've seen, Luffy wins very high diff, assuming G4 doesn't have some huge drawback or short time limit.

If you think Kong Gun only hurt Doffy because he's injured, then you're ridiculously biased against Luffy. 


Obviously if Luffy can't maintain G4 more than a few minutes then he loses afterwards, but otherwise he should be able to take it.


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## Ruse (Apr 27, 2015)

Depends on G4 drawbacks and how effective parasite is. 

I'd say Doffy high/very high diffs for now


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## ShadoLord (Apr 27, 2015)

MYJC said:


> Based on what we've seen, Luffy wins very high diff, assuming G4 doesn't have some huge drawback or short time limit.
> 
> If you think Kong Gun only hurt Doffy because he's injured, then you're ridiculously biased against Luffy.
> 
> ...



Half dead Doflamingo took that hit and got right back up almost instantly. A fresh Doflamingo is another story altogether. This is without counting the fact that parasite somehow got restricted and PIS in the story when he could of cut off Luffy's head but instead tied his arm up.


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## DoctorLaw (Apr 27, 2015)

A bloodlusted Doflamingo with no PIS will low end mid dif Luffy, maybe even low dif him completely, as we saw Doflamingo basically had shits and giggles fighting Law. If Luffy can find a counter for parasite like vibrating rapidly to keep the strings off of him or something, he can push DD to high or very high difficulty.


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## MYJC (Apr 27, 2015)

Wave said:


> Half dead Doflamingo took that hit and got right back up almost instantly. A fresh Doflamingo is another story altogether. This is without counting the fact that parasite somehow got restricted and PIS in the story when he could of cut off Luffy's head but instead tied his arm up.




Let me ask you...do you think 100% Doflamingo would beat up current Doflamingo as bad as G4 Luffy has so far? Because I really, _really_ don't see 100% Doffy knocking current Doffy all the way off the palace into the city. 

As far as parasite...I dunno, there has to be some sort of limit to it. I'll wait to see what happens, but if it's that much of an insta-win he'd have used it against Law or Luffy or even Fujitora by now.


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## ShadoLord (Apr 27, 2015)

MYJC said:


> Let me ask you...do you think 100% Doflamingo would beat up current Doflamingo as bad as G4 Luffy has so far? Because I really, _really_ don't see 100% Doffy knocking current Doffy all the way off the palace into the city.
> 
> As far as parasite...I dunno, there has to be some sort of limit to it. I'll wait to see what happens, but if it's that much of an insta-win he'd have used it against Law or Luffy or even Fujitora by now.



What the fuck are you saying? Doffy's forte is his cutting abilities not his strength. 

Comparing Luffy/Law to Fujitora

I don't see why parasite wouldn't work when it work against Jozu, who's stronger than law and luffy.


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## MYJC (Apr 27, 2015)

Wave said:


> What the fuck are you saying? Doffy's forte is his cutting abilities not his strength.
> 
> Comparing Luffy/Law to Fujitora
> 
> I don't see why parasite wouldn't work when it work against Jozu, who's stronger than law and luffy.




You're deflecting, I didn't say that Luffy was as strong as Fujitora, my point is that there has to be some sort of limit on it otherwise he'd be able to beat everybody with it. It can probably be dodged or something if you see it coming.

And I can't help but notice you didn't answer my question about whether Doffy would be able to beat his 100% self up as badly as G4 Luffy has so far.


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## ShadoLord (Apr 27, 2015)

MYJC said:


> You're deflecting, I didn't say that Luffy was as strong as Fujitora, my point is that there has to be some sort of limit on it otherwise he'd be able to beat everybody with it. It can probably be dodged or something if you see it coming.
> 
> And I can't help but notice you didn't answer my question about whether Doffy would be able to beat his 100% self up as badly as G4 Luffy has so far.



The fact that it work against Jozu given the chance proves that it'll work on someone like Luffy or Law. Doflamingo had numerous chances to parasite Luffy throughout the fights and cut his head off if he wanted to. 

Doflamingo would obviously beat his own self that's got struck by Gamma Knife. The man was repeling everything Luffy throws his way but after that gamma knife, most of Luffy's attacks are starting to connect and blow Doflamingo away, the difference is obvious. Why would you even ask this?


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## MYJC (Apr 27, 2015)

Wave said:


> The fact that it work against Jozu given the chance proves that it'll work on someone like Luffy or Law. Doflamingo had numerous chances to parasite Luffy throughout the fights and cut his head off if he wanted to.
> 
> Doflamingo would obviously beat his own self that's got struck by Gamma Knife. The man was repeling everything Luffy throws his way but after that gamma knife, most of Luffy's attacks are starting to connect and blow Doflamingo away, the difference is obvious. Why would you even ask this?




That's not the question I posed though...anybody would beat an injured version of themselves. 

What I'm asking is if Doffy would be able to beat his injured self up *as badly and quickly* as G4 Luffy has.


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## ShadoLord (Apr 27, 2015)

MYJC said:


> That's not the question I posed though...anybody would beat an injured version of themselves.
> 
> What I'm asking is if Doffy would be able to beat his injured self up *as badly and quickly* as G4 Luffy has.



I don't understand what you are saying. Half dead Doflamingo took G4 Luffy's attacks AND instantly got back up on his foot. He was simply taken by surprised at Luffy sudden burst of speed and strength in which weren't even able to put him down for a short while.


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## David (Apr 27, 2015)

Guessing Doflamingo high difficulty.  The dude's using strings to hold his organs together and we don't know how long G4 lasts for, if it stays 100% effective or diminishes with time used, or its side effects.  Also we don't know if Luffy can fight parasite yet.


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## MYJC (Apr 27, 2015)

Wave said:


> I don't understand what you are saying. Half dead Doflamingo took G4 Luffy's attacks AND instantly got back up on his foot. He was simply taken by surprised at Luffy sudden burst of speed and strength in which weren't even able to put him down for a short while.




Let's not act like Doffy wasn't hurting from those attacks, there was blood everywhere. You think 100% Doffy would be able to knock current Doffy around like that? If so the we just have to agree to disagree. 

Luffy, at the moment, is basically low-diffing Doffy. Yes, Doffy is hurt, but so is Luffy. Obviously Doffy would be putting up much more of a fight at 100% but I can't buy that he's SO hurt that he's getting low-diffed by somebody he'd usually beat. I'm sure Doffy will make a comeback later but it'll probably have more to do with drawbacks of G4 (or the time limit running out) than anything.


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## ShadoLord (Apr 27, 2015)

MYJC said:


> Let's not act like Doffy wasn't hurting from those attacks, there was blood everywhere. You think 100% Doffy would be able to knock current Doffy around like that? If so the we just have to agree to disagree.
> 
> Luffy, at the moment, is basically low-diffing Doffy. Yes, Doffy is hurt, but so is Luffy. Obviously Doffy would be putting up much more of a fight at 100% but I can't buy that he's SO hurt that he's getting low-diffed by somebody he'd usually beat. I'm sure Doffy will make a comeback later but it'll probably have more to do with drawbacks of G4 (or the time limit running out) than anything.



Do you even know what the heck are you saying? Doflamingo is more reliant on his DF ability and NOT his physical abilities which is outshine by Luffy's G4.

How can he be low-diffing Doflamingo when the attacks didn't even stop him from getting back up instantly? He has been hit like 3 times only, so we'll see more next chapter, especially considering that A) Parasite is restricted and B) G4 might have some drawbacks


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## MYJC (Apr 27, 2015)

Wave said:


> Do you even know what the heck are you saying? Doflamingo is more reliant on his DF ability and NOT his physical abilities which is outshine by Luffy's G4.




To be honest this makes it worse since being injured shouldn't really affect Doffy's ability to use his strings much.




Wave said:


> How can he be low-diffing Doflamingo when the attacks didn't even stop him from getting back up instantly? He has been hit like 3 times only, so we'll see more next chapter, especially considering that A) Parasite is restricted and B) G4 might have some drawbacks




Didn't say it was a curbstomp. So far Doffy hasn't been able to hurt G4 Luffy (even with a named attack that Luffy didn't block) and Luffy has had no trouble at all hurting him. Obviously my opinion will change if G4 has some huge drawback or Luffy can't maintain it or Doflamingo starts wailing on Luffy next chapter...I'm just going by what we've seen. 

And IMO if G4 can low or mid diff injured Doffy then it should be able to high or extreme healthy Doffy.


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## Jossaff (Apr 28, 2015)

A fresh Doffy would take G4 Luffy with Mid(High) - High(Low) diff IMO.

Luffy literally wasnt able to land a single hit on Doffy without Law help and Gamma hax , before that he was recieveing Sanji's treatment  , the guy is now fighting holding his inners with strings and holding up the Bird cage , and still he might give Luffy an extreme diff fight


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## Green Monkey (Apr 28, 2015)

Jossaff said:


> A fresh Doffy would take G4 Luffy with Mid(High) - High(Low) diff IMO.
> 
> Luffy literally wasnt able to land a single hit on Doffy without Law help and Gamma hax , before that he was recieveing Sanji's treatment  , the guy is now fighting holding his inners with strings and holding up the Bird cage , and still he might give Luffy an extreme diff fight



You mean Luffy was getting the Sanji treatment from a main arc villain before he got serious and used his strongest abilities?

Sounds like Luffy vs basically every arc villain other than Hody.

To me it really matters about the drawbacks. If Luffy can stay in G4 for an extended period of time without losing power I see him winning. If G4 only works for like 2-3 minutes and then Luffy is huffing and puffing and losing power he will lose pretty soundly. 

IMO G4 Luffy>>>>DD in terms of power when Luffy is in G4 and at the strength he was during the last chapter. I don't see a fresh DD doing much better in chapter 784 than the DD we saw. I think Oda would have made a statement from DD like "If only i had my strength!" when Luffy was mashing his face in if he wanted it to seem like DD could have handled it when he was at full strength. Instead he had DD say "Such Obscene Power!" as well as getting pissed about how Luffy is multiplying his power. Definitely doesn't sound like the thoughts of a man who would be winning the fight if he was at full strength, but then again maybe DD will say something like that later.

I mean, how is Luffy's power obscene if DD could handle it at full strength? If he could have handled Luffy mid difficulty at full strength why would he be cursing Luffy for getting stronger instead of cursing Law for weakening him so much he is getting humiliated by a weaker fighter?

In fights previously where someone was fighting with a serious injury and Oda wanted to emphasize it he did at multiple points.  He has not emphasized DD's injury AT ALL after it happened other than when both fighters acknowledged to each other that they weren't fighting at 100%.


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## Shanks (Apr 28, 2015)

Extreme difficulties, go either-way.

This is bloodlust Luffy, I'm talking about. 

Gear 4 appears to be stronger than Dofla but I'm thinking that Gear 4 will cost alot of stamina and life force, which cannot be maintain for an extended period time.

With the current fight, Luffy will do more damage to Dofla and weaken him some more, however within a chapter or two, he will not be able to maintain Gear 4 and will be fighting Dofla on Gear 2nd & 3rd, so currently, it's very difficult to tell who is stronger.


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## Jossaff (Apr 28, 2015)

Green Monkey said:


> You mean Luffy was getting the Sanji treatment from a main arc villain before he got serious and used his strongest abilities?
> 
> Sounds like Luffy vs basically every arc villain other than Hody.



Like any other main arc villain ?, correct me if im wrong but this is the first time we've seen Luffy 
having a 2 vs 1  with someone as strong as him (or stronger) fight against the main arc villain   ; also this is the first time Oda shows  that Luffy needed to fight a extremely injured enemy to stand a chance



Green Monkey said:


> IMO G4 Luffy>>>>DD in terms of power when Luffy is in G4 and at the strength he was during the last chapter. I don't see a fresh DD doing much better in chapter 784 than the DD we saw. I think Oda would have made a statement from DD like "If only i had my strength!" when Luffy was mashing his face in if he wanted it to seem like DD could have handled it when he was at full strength. Instead he had DD say "Such Obscene Power!" as well as getting pissed about how Luffy is multiplying his power. Definitely doesn't sound like the thoughts of a man who would be winning the fight if he was at full strength, but then again maybe DD will say something like that later.



You cant really sustain on DD statement , hell he even flatered Sanji and we all know how that went on ; as many other cases with many other characters



Green Monkey said:


> In fights previously where someone was fighting with a serious injury and Oda wanted to emphasize it he did at multiple points.  He has not emphasized DD's injury AT ALL after it happened other than when both fighters acknowledged to each other that they weren't fighting at 100%



We saw DD low diff Luffy in multiple times , he couldnt lay a single finger on him even with G3 , after Gamma knight everything changed ; even Luffy sayd " You're getting pretty weak yourself! , You took Traffy's Monster of an attack head on ! , DD couldnt react to a simple G2 attack after that , when moments before he was shown much faster than Luffy ; if that not emphazising a injury at all as you said , then i dont know what it is.

anyways DD Mid (high) - High (low) IMO


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## Green Monkey (Apr 28, 2015)

Jossaff said:


> Like any other main arc villain ?, correct me if im wrong but this is the first time we've seen Luffy
> having a 2 vs 1  with someone as strong as him (or stronger) fight against the main arc villain   ; also this is the first time Oda shows  that Luffy needed to fight a extremely injured enemy to stand a chance
> 
> 
> ...



Luffy got rekt way harder than anything Dofla has done his first fight against Lucci, as well as his first fight agaisnt crocodile. He was also getting schooled by moria just as hard when he first fought him. So yes, basically every big arc villain except for Enel and East Blue villains because they were weaker and Enel was immune. Look at W7 Base Luffy vs EL base Luffy in terms of how they fight Lucci.

Don't know what you mean in second paragraph, but Sanji is like a fly in comparison to G4 so idk what you mean?

Refer to first paragraph. I also don't understand how you all claim it's a vicious 2 v1 when Luffy is letting himself get raped by bellamy for 90% of Law's fight with DD and Trebol is there as well. If you want to be technical it's a 3 v 2, but that wouldn't fit your narrative. Not to mention Laws 2 v1 against Fuji and DD prior to that, as well as Luffy going throught 75% of a tournament against high tier fighters.

That's not emphasizing it at all. That's you imagining it. Emphasis would be DD saying "You can't even hurt me in this state!", or "You're fast enough to tag me when I'm injured, impressive."

You know, like when the one time they did emphasize it. Oda is not some subtle ass writer when it comes to stuff like this.


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## Nurito (Apr 28, 2015)

Let's just see how this fight goes first.


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## Jossaff (Apr 28, 2015)

Green Monkey said:


> Luffy got rekt way harder than anything Dofla has done his first fight against Lucci, as well as his first fight agaisnt crocodile. He was also getting schooled by moria just as hard when he first fought him. So yes, basically every big arc villain except for Enel and East Blue villains because they were weaker and Enel was immune. Look at W7 Base Luffy vs EL base Luffy in terms of how they fight Lucci..



Crocodile was a logia of course he couldnt fought him . and he never beated moria in a 1 vs 1 unless you count what happened after nightmare luffy, This is the first time Oda shows us that the only way Luffy can win this fight , its if DD is extremely injured



Green Monkey said:


> Refer to first paragraph. I also don't understand how you all claim it's a vicious 2 v1 when Luffy is letting himself get raped by bellamy for 90% of Law's fight with DD and Trebol is there as well. If you want to be technical it's a 3 v 2, but that wouldn't fit your narrative. Not to mention Laws 2 v1 against Fuji and DD prior to that, as well as Luffy going throught 75% of a tournament against high tier fighters.



90% of the fight ? All the damage they had done to DD has been thanks to their team work , if you consider Bellamy a mid tier at best a factor in a fight of High tiers , then i have no reason to discuss with you , Plus all Trebol had contributed in that fight has been holding Law for 1 DD attack , other than that all he's been doing is screaming whenever DD got hit.

Really you consider High tier fighers the ones like Base Sai , Ideo , Kelly Funk , etc ? 
the strongest opponent  he faced there was flatter head Chinjao , who was later beaten by Lao G , on the other hand DD had to face a bunch of real high tiers like Smoker , Sanji , Law , Luffy ; or breaking Aokiji's ice which alone i see it takes more effort than anything Luffy has done before the fight .



Green Monkey said:


> That's not emphasizing it at all. That's you imagining it. Emphasis would be DD saying "You can't even hurt me in this state!", or "You're fast enough to tag me when I'm injured, impressive."
> 
> You know, like when the one time they did emphasize it. Oda is not some subtle ass writer when it comes to stuff like this.




Really? its not?.

Before the gamma knife , DD could easily react ,outspeed and handle G2,G3 luffy , to the point Luffy couldnt lay a finger on him ; after it ;even G2 Luffy was able to tag with DD fairly well and at some points making him unable to react as you can see in the scan above.

G4 Luffy would still give some big troubles to DD , but it wouldnt be able to throw him around Dressrosa like he is now , his reaction time strenght and stamina is heavily affected by Law knife and even now he will probably give Luffy an extr diff fight.


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## Masvindu (Apr 28, 2015)

Goes either way till more canon knowledge.


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## Green Monkey (Apr 28, 2015)

Jossaff said:


> Crocodile was a logia of course he couldnt fought him . and he never beated moria in a 1 vs 1 unless you count what happened after nightmare luffy, This is the first time Oda shows us that the only way Luffy can win this fight , its if DD is extremely injured
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You just linked the picture of the exact page i have been talking about this entire time..


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## Ajin (Apr 28, 2015)

Doflamingo wins with high diff at most.


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## Bernkastel (Apr 28, 2015)

If G4 has no time limit or some huge drawback then he wins extreme diff.


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## Tenma (Apr 28, 2015)

DD wins high diff. He gets the benefit of the doubt for now since he has better feats than Luffy all round.

But what's with people saying DD can mid-diff or even low-diff Luffy? It's obvious that option is out of the window.


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## Freechoice (Apr 28, 2015)

Eh

Oda clearly emphasised that both parties were injured basically the same amount.

100% G4 Luffy does the same amount of damage to 100% Dofla as he is doing now.

Because they are both (r) equally injured currently.


Dofla aint shit


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## DoctorLaw (Apr 28, 2015)

lol said:


> Eh
> 
> Oda clearly emphasised that both parties were injured basically the same amount.
> 
> ...



Doflamingo has taken internal damage on a mass scale from Law. Luffy has no where near the amount of damage Doflamingo has. Also, Doflamingo has made almost no attempts to use his DF fighting Luffy, sans the clone and an occassional cut with his string or two. Doflamingo has ripped heads, contorted bodies, and dismembered people with those things, plus he low diffed Law using his abilities, yet with Luffy he's relied more on CQC and laughing. 

If the plot is thrown out the window and Doflamingo, a man who absolutely fodderized Smoker and nearly did the same to Law, and gave Jozu the Sanji treatment, fights Luffy, a brawler who is the perfect candidate for parasite with his lack of knowledge of the ability and counter for it, Doflamingo is going to win.

If by some miracle parasite is restricted, Doflamingo will still win high difficulty. Until Luffy proves himself against a dead serious Doflamingo using his strings like he did with everyone else, I don't see him coming close to winning. I think this injured Doflamingo is going to push Luffy to extreme, even with G4


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## Freechoice (Apr 28, 2015)

Doctor Law man you just smashed my face with some brutally honest knowledge

My ass is sore


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## Magician (Apr 28, 2015)

Doffy wins high or maybe very high diff.

Luffy proved he can tangle wit this guy but he ain't winning.


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## Tenma (Apr 28, 2015)

Also DD didn't low-diff Law.

In their 1v1 Law shot a hole through his chest despite not being at full health, that qualifies for mid diff. He'd probably have given DD a better fight at full strength.

Sanji got owned hard but to his credit he lacked intricate knowledge of DD's abilities like Law or even the basic facts like Luffy- FFS he didn't know Doffy was a string man.


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## Yuki (Apr 28, 2015)

I've still betting on DD using Parasite and Luffy breaking out of it with pure power.

Also, idk what your reader comprehension says. Oda has stated that both are injured by about the same. That is what ODA is saying. So what you say can fk off honestly.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Apr 28, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> I've still betting on DD using Parasite and Luffy breaking out of it with pure power.



I hope Luffy does something wacky and creative to get out of it. Like his body is inflated right now in G4, so he contracts his body  to just "wiggle" out of it or something (which would work if Doflamingo's parasite works by wrapping strings tightly around one's body)


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## Coruscation (Apr 28, 2015)

Parasite enters through the neck right? Luffy could retract his head into his torso and harden the whole package so the string can't actually get in.

The disadvantage would be that he can't see what he's doing.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Apr 28, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> Parasite enters through the neck right? Luffy could retract his head into his torso and harden the whole package so the string can't actually get in.
> 
> The disadvantage would be that he can't see what he's doing.



Lmao you remember how in Kung Fu panda that snow leopard villain couldn't find Po's nerve because he was so fat? I think something similarly weird would be the case Luffy's G4 body since it's filled with air and Doffy's string keeps missing.

I'm also not sure yet if Parasite enters the body into the spinal cord, or it's just one string spreading over their body at the level of their neck and below. Probably the former.

But I guess him using hardening would be better 
Still, he managed to get sanji's neck from a different position where the nape of his neck shouldn't be accessible, so I don't know if he bent his string or whatever, or how it works.


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## DoctorLaw (Apr 28, 2015)

Jozu couldn't break out of parasite, and he is significantly stronger than Luffy. Luffy breaking out of parasite will involve a great deal of finesse on his part with his ability if it does happen, but that still doesn't change the fact that Doflamingo still hasn't used nearly half of his DF attacks on Luffy yet. Law had knowledge and a DF that could help him counter a lot of Doflamingo's attacks, but he was still beaten easily when Doflamingo used his abilities. Doflamingo can cut up entire cities, and Luffy's weakness, through his own admission, is being cut. 

And Oda is making the point that Luffy is not strong enough to defeat Doflamingo on his own. 

1) Another fighter on Luffy's level had to fight Doflamingo and cause the bulk of the current damage he has now

2) Before the G4, Law was the only reason Luffy could get off a clean hit on his opponent

3) The reason Luffy's damage is even close to Doflamingos (if internal damage and getting no named attacks from Doflamingo are comparable) is because Doflamingo caused the damage. 

In short, Doflamingo is hurting right now because of the gauntlet of opponents he's had so far. Law was directly responsible for every lasting hit Doflamingo has taken to this point before G4. Luffy, with no G4, can't even harm a Doflamingo with his insides turned to sizzurp.

So again, if their damage is comparable, that only helps Doflamingo's case. A few hits from Doflamingo did as much damage to Luffy as Law's ultimate attack did to Doflamingo. The G4 powerup isn't massive enough to make a fresh Luffy beat a fresh Doflamingo using his entire arsenal. As a matter of fact, Doflamingo even tanked several hits and reacted, only getting hit again because of the lack of knowledge on his part. 

Doflamingo's reaction time was good enough to counter a G2 Luffy, a shambles, and one G4 attack. His haki prevented Law from using any room slashes on him, and blocked a gattling gun, and he is as fast as Luffy. Plus his DF ability is hax.


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## Yuki (Apr 28, 2015)

DoctorLaw said:


> Jozu couldn't break out of parasite, and he is significantly stronger than Luffy.



In your opinion.


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## DoctorLaw (Apr 28, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> In your opinion.



Jozu threw an iceberg at marine giants, giants strong enough to cut down buildings. It was implied they could do nothing to stop it. Akainu had to step in with a named attack to block the iceberg. I doubt a Kong Gun could have destroyed that, or that Luffy could replicate the feat. Also based on portrayal, Jozu is a powerhouse with his stats focused on raw strength, while Luffy is spread around speed, strength, quick wit, technique, etc.


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## Biased as Fuck (Apr 28, 2015)

lol said:


> Eh
> 
> Oda clearly emphasised that both parties were injured basically the same amount.
> 
> ...



Wow you're fucking dumb............both equally injured? Let's see get punched a few times by fodder or get your organs ripped to shreds, get hit by a red hawk point blank and get counter shocked by Law...oh also injection shot...some punches by luffy ...yeah get the fuck out. lol

Also Oda is inconsistent as fuck with his writing...same amount of damage..the fuck outta here.


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## Freechoice (Apr 28, 2015)

Hey man that's rude 

hurting my feelings man, why ?


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## Coruscation (Apr 28, 2015)

I would say DD would probably win due to whatever G4's drawback is. The reason Luffy is winning this fight is that due to Bird Cage'a time limit and the prior injuries to both parties it has been turned into a contest of who can lay down the most heat in a short amount of time. A form which gives incredibly high power for a short period of time, like Gear 4th, is perfectly suited to those conditions. Doffy's power is distributed differently, not as much to short term blitzkrieg.

As in--

- Doffy is _always_ 100.
- Luffy is 80 outside G4 and 120 in it, but only for a short time/with drawbacks.

This lets Oda strike a balance between all the things he's trying to do. Law's contribution needs to be important, Doffy's massively hyped status needs to be kept intact, Luffy's victory needs to feel significant and his confidence warranted. Under manga conditions - a short term slugfest - Luffy w/ G4 is superior to Dof. Doffy is better in a protracted fight starting from 100% because his stats are so high without temporary buffs. G4 is still new to Luffy and will likely have significant drawbacks like prior Gears. Having to wear down Doffy from 100% means more time and opportunity for those drawbacks to impact the fight.

Although that is assuming DD won't have any "Lucci stumbles just as he is about to kill Luffy" type moments for the rest of the fight. If he does it's a different story as Luffy isn't even truly superior under the conditions Law created for him.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Apr 28, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> I would say DD would probably win due to whatever G4's drawback is. The reason Luffy is winning this fight is that due to Bird Cage'a time limit and the prior injuries to both parties it has been turned into a contest of who can lay down the most heat in a short amount of time. A form which gives incredibly high power for a short period of time, like Gear 4th, is perfectly suited to those conditions. Doffy's power is distributed differently, not as much to short term blitzkrieg.
> 
> As in--
> 
> ...



Doffy is about 20 right now due to being on his deathbed


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## Yuki (Apr 28, 2015)

DoctorLaw said:


> Jozu threw an iceberg at marine giants, giants strong enough to cut down buildings. It was implied they could do nothing to stop it. Akainu had to step in with a named attack to block the iceberg. I doubt a Kong Gun could have destroyed that, or that Luffy could replicate the feat. Also based on portrayal, Jozu is a powerhouse with his stats focused on raw strength, while Luffy is spread around speed, strength, quick wit, technique, etc.



Luffy owned Giants in base form back in the first bits of the grand line. Your point? o_O 

That was the admirals introduction into the war.

Fact is, you thinking Jozu is stronger does not rule out that Luffy could break out of Parasite with pure power which would then prove your opinion false.



Biased as Fuck said:


> Wow you're fucking dumb............both equally injured? Let's see get punched a few times by fodder or get your organs ripped to shreds, get hit by a red hawk point blank and get counter shocked by Law...oh also injection shot...some punches by luffy ...yeah get the fuck out. lol
> 
> Also Oda is inconsistent as fuck with his writing...same amount of damage..the fuck outta here.



Don't know when lol is loling.

You must be new here.


----------



## Finalbeta (Apr 28, 2015)

Fresh Doffy should be able to mid diff any current luffy for what both shown till THIS MOMENT 

It's clear that Doffy lost half or more of his powers;

comparing a 100% doffy to current doffy is like comparing sabo to Burgess meeeh


----------



## DoctorLaw (Apr 28, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> *Luffy owned Giants in base form back in the first bits of the grand line. Your point? o_O*
> 
> That was the admirals introduction into the war.
> 
> ...



He used a named attack because he had to, Kizaru's introduction had him shooting out nameless massive AOE attacks for quite a while.

And since you keep bringing up how often Oda is hinting to us, or what he implies to us, I'm pretty sure he hammered home the point that strength does not beat parasite by using Jozu, arguably the strongest physical fighter at the war as demonstration. 

And if Jozu is physically weaker than Luffy, you are either overrating Luffy by a landslide, or underestimating Jozu. Jozu is relevant completely because of his strength. Jozu was a top commander for Whitebeard, and fought top tiers because of his POWER it definitely wasn't his speed, and he only lost when he was distracted. He was giving a serious Aokiji high difficulty, and his attack did as much damage to Aokiji as Luffy's Kong punch did to a weakened Doflamingo.

At the end of the day, Luffy is going to extreme dif an already damaged, shadow of his former self Doflamingo who has had all of his named string attacks restricted. If he could have soloed a healthy Doflamingo, couldn't have Oda made Doflamingo thrash Law, heal up, and then have Luffy confront him? No, he made Doflamingo take some nasty hits and heal himself to the point that his organs just wouldn't ooze out.


----------



## Randal (Apr 28, 2015)

I think we need to see more of this fight. 

The line about Luffy claiming Doflamingo must be pretty injured too, does confirm that both sides are injured, whether the damage is the same is debatable. 

All I can say is just because an injured Doflamingo is getting pummelled by a G4 Luffy, this does not mean a healthy Doflamingo can therefore pummel a G4 Luffy. Yes a healthy Doflamingo was knocking around a regular Luffy, but this is not enough to say for definite that Doflamingo could do the same to a G4 Luffy. 

This is what most people are going off, the fact that when Doflamingo was uninjured, Luffy was clearly losing. We can?t assume the same result when there are different factors to consider.

I understand Doflamingo had been severely injured during the 2v1, however it does seem that the strings have quite considerably lessened the damage. Referring to Doflamingo as half-dead is a bit extreme, Zoro at Sabaody when he could barely stand, panting, I?d call that half-dead. Doflamingo seems quite capable of fighting, showing no signs of struggling to maintain his current level of power. The damage may have affected his performance, but not enough to cause him any discomfort during this 1v1, and certainly not to the point where he can use only half of his power.

So as of right now I am not sure of who would win in a fight 1v1, I need to see how well Doflamingo can handle gear 4. If Luffy is pushed to his absolute limit in gear 4 then fair enough, it is likely a less injured Doflamingo can defeat a somewhat less injured Luffy.


----------



## Yuki (Apr 28, 2015)

DoctorLaw said:


> .



Stopped reading the second you posted that you think i actually believe Luffy is psychically stronger than Jozu. 

You clearly have no idea what i am talking about so stop talking to me please. >_>


----------



## DoctorLaw (Apr 28, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Stopped reading the second you posted that you think* i actually believe Luffy is psychically stronger than Jozu*.
> 
> You clearly have no idea what i am talking about so stop talking to me please. >_>



Jozu couldn't break out of parasite with physical strength. You just said Luffy is going to break out with "pure power." If Luffy has enough power to break out of something that Jozu can't he would be physically stronger. Luffy doesn't beat Jozu in haki, physical strength, fighting caliber, or any other thing you'll say you meant when you said "pure power."  Either way, my point stands, Doflamingo is 30%, Luffy is 75% at least. If they are equal in damage thus far, that means Doflamingo did that to him, and he didn't have to have someone help him do it, unlike Luffy.


----------



## Randal (Apr 28, 2015)

DoctorLaw said:


> Either way, my point stands, Doflamingo is 30%, Luffy is 75% at least. If they are equal in damage thus far, that means Doflamingo did that to him, and he didn't have to have someone help him do it, unlike Luffy.




If you think Doflamingo is at 30% then fair enough, but personally I think that?s a bit of a stretch. No less than 70% sounds reasonable, for the reasons I mentioned.

Regardless of whether Doflamingo caused the current damage on Luffy, he caused this when Luffy was holding back, this doesn't prove anything. This is what I?m saying, just because he received help to weaken Doflamingo, this does not mean he could not have done the same 1v1 in gear 4, what so far says he can?t? I?m not saying he could, I?m saying we don?t know, we?ve not seen much of gear 4 yet, so how can we just assume this?


----------



## Green Monkey (Apr 28, 2015)

DoctorLaw said:


> Jozu couldn't break out of parasite with physical strength. You just said Luffy is going to break out with "pure power." If Luffy has enough power to break out of something that Jozu can't he would be physically stronger. Luffy doesn't beat Jozu in haki, physical strength, fighting caliber, or any other thing you'll say you meant when you said "pure power."  Either way, my point stands, Doflamingo is 30%, Luffy is 75% at least. If they are equal in damage thus far, that means Doflamingo did that to him, and he didn't have to have someone help him do it, unlike Luffy.



So you are ignoring the time when Luffy let Bellamy punch him over and over again without defending himself, as well as Luffy fighting DCJ in a tournament prior?

"BUT HIS ORGANS GOT RIPPED DUDE". Sure, I'm guessing that's why Oda hasn't emphasized it all, and even went out of his way having DD mention Luffy's injuries, which probably wouldn't be necessary if all Oda wanted to show us was that Luffy was at a massive advantage in the fight. 

This 30% answer is fucking hilarious. DD is walking around perfectly, has mentioned no sluggishness in his movements, and has displayed 0 drawbacks from the move. It is total guesswork, and it makes no fucking sense to peg someone moving like DD is now at 30%.

Do people not understand that if you stand there and let a fodder beat the shit out of you it can hurt a lot? When Garp let Luffy punch him in the face blood still flew out of his mouth. He didn't use haki to force blood to come out, it just happened because even to a top tier a pre-skip Luffy punch with no protection will fuck your body up regardless of how strong you are. Fast forward to Bellamy and you can see why it would hurt to be repeatedly punched in the face by a high tier who's specialty is hitting hard as fuck when you're just sitting there.

Can i please ask you guys who claim that Doffy is at a massive disadvantage, why in the fucking world would ODa have DD mention Luffy's injuries? If Luffy is at 90% and DD is at 20-30% like all of you think, why would DD even fucken mention it if it's that drastic of a difference? It makes 0 sense from an authors point of view and just confuses the reader, unless IDK, he was actually using that line to have both fights express that they were somewhat equally weakened.


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## Tenma (Apr 28, 2015)

DoctorLaw said:


> Jozu threw an iceberg at marine giants, giants strong enough to cut down buildings. It was implied they could do nothing to stop it. Akainu had to step in with a named attack to block the iceberg. I doubt a Kong Gun could have destroyed that, or that Luffy could replicate the feat. Also based on portrayal, Jozu is a powerhouse with his stats focused on raw strength, while Luffy is spread around speed, strength, quick wit, technique, etc.



Zoro and Jinbe already have strength feats in that domain.

Giants are crap, Luffy just oneshotted one with a nameless punch this arc.


----------



## DoctorLaw (Apr 28, 2015)

Green Monkey said:


> So you are ignoring the time when Luffy let Bellamy punch him over and over again without defending himself, as well as Luffy fighting DCJ in a tournament prior?
> 
> "BUT HIS ORGANS GOT RIPPED DUDE". Sure, I'm guessing that's why Oda hasn't emphasized it all, and even went out of his way having DD mention Luffy's injuries, which probably wouldn't be necessary if all Oda wanted to show us was that Luffy was at a massive advantage in the fight.
> 
> ...



Let me ask you this than. Why have Law's attack be something so powerful it can destroy internal organs? Why would Oda waste his time drawing Law using a devastating attack like that on Doflamingo if he'll just go "LOL WONT AFFECT HIM AT ALL." What sense would it make, to make Law's strongest attack completely useless? You guys are putting way too much importance in words. The whole "your looking banged up yourself line," is not the greenlight that Luffy and Doflamingo are fighting an equal fight right now. Have you guys never heard that before in a shounen before? The villian gloating and telling the protagonist that he's too weak, can't win etc;

 Luffy taking punches from Bellamy makes his damage as high as Doflamingo's all of a sudden? You're telling me Bellamy hit Luffy with the equivalent of a redhawk to the stomach, and a gamma knife to the organs? No, Luffy tanked the shit out of Bellamy's hits, and like I said before the only reason Luffy is even close to Doflamingo's damage right now is because Doflamingo did it to him. All the damage Doflamingo took before G4 was because of Law's help. 

And since we're putting so much importance in words, let's reevaluate when Luffy told Doflamingo he was damaged. He mentioned that Doflamingo had to be close to losing by now after what Law did, and HE STILL felt it was necessary for him to go to G4 to fight Doflamingo. This tells us that Luffy knows his enemy is nowhere near as strong as he usually is, but he has to pull out all the stops to win. 

And even with G4, Doflamingo tanked the first two hits, and even reacted to nearly dodge an attack, only getting caught off guard because of a quick one time trick on Luffy's part. Another interesting thing, Luffy is famous for trying to beat opponents on his own merit and no help, this is one of the only times I can ever recall him commenting on the damage his opponent has received from someone else, and one of the few times Luffy needed help to beat the arc villian. Oda made it a point to show us all that for Luffy to defeat Doflamingo, he needs a high tier's help, and a super mode.


----------



## Tenma (Apr 28, 2015)

tfw Luffy beats the crap out of DD and more people still think Ace would give him a high/extreme diff fight than Luffy.


----------



## Randal (Apr 28, 2015)

DoctorLaw said:


> Let me ask you this than. Why have Law's attack be something so powerful it can destroy internal organs? Why would Oda waste his time drawing Law using a devastating attack like that on Doflamingo if he'll just go "LOL WONT AFFECT HIM AT ALL." What sense would it make, to make Law's strongest attack completely useless? *You guys are putting way too much importance in words.* The whole "your looking banged up yourself line," is not the greenlight that Luffy and Doflamingo are fighting an equal fight right now. *Have you guys never heard that before in a shounen before? The villian gloating and telling the protagonist that he's too weak, can't win etc;*
> 
> Luffy taking punches from Bellamy makes his damage as high as Doflamingo's all of a sudden? You're telling me Bellamy hit Luffy with the equivalent of a redhawk to the stomach, and a gamma knife to the organs? No, Luffy tanked the shit out of Bellamy's hits, and *like I said before the only reason Luffy is even close to Doflamingo's damage right now is because Doflamingo did it to him.* All the damage Doflamingo took before G4 was because of Law's help.
> 
> ...



The only thing this proves is that Law is not strong enough to take down Doflamingo 1v1, not only that but, Law couldn?t even get Doflamingo to fight seriously. He needed the help of Luffy and the illusion that he was dead for Gamma Knife to work. It also shows Gamma knife wasn?t enough to finish him. It shows this move injured him severely, then it shows he repairs a considerable amount of the damage. The damage has definitely affected his performance, but not enough to cause Doflamingo discomfort when fighting. 

I would say the words are pretty important. True you get that, but ?too weak/can?t win? is not what he is trying to say. He is talking about the damage he has taken. Luffy claims that he can try finishing Law over his dead body, Doflamingo then goes on to say he is already halfway there then. This can only be referring to Luffy?s injuries.

Like I said Doflamingo injuring Luffy is irrelevant when Luffy was holding back, this proves nothing.

He never states he believes Doflamingo is close to losing, nor is it implied, he makes the point that it was an attack he couldn't just shake off.

Taking two hits and then defeat, well what a interesting and climactic way to end the arc, and what a great  way to showcase the results of his training. This once again doesn't really say anything, Bleuno and Lucci got the same treatment with gear 2, even though the outcomes were different. Bleuno took a couple of hits, was fine, but still got finshed off pretty easily. Lucci on the other hand took a couple of hits, was fine, but then Luffy had to go all out to finish him, we don't know how gear 4 Luffy matches against Doflamingo, just because he received a couple of hits.

Ah this is getting repetitive, Law helping to injure Doflamingo does not mean Luffy needed the help to defeat him. We do not know whether gear 4 could have put him in the same state he is in now. 

The main reasons for Law getting involved with the final fight is due to the alliance and the past history between Law and Doflamingo, not to create an advantage/handicap for Luffy.


----------



## X18999 (Apr 28, 2015)

I love the fact that people keep saying it was a 2v1 despite there being five people up there fighting.


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## Quuon (Apr 28, 2015)

A healthy Doflamingo should take this with high-extreme difficulty.

Luffy's close but he's not there yet.


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## Turrin (Apr 29, 2015)

Oda had Luffy and DD talk about their injuries and fatigue, but the truth of the matter is nether Luffy nor DD has been shown to be handicapped in anyway by their injuries. So as far as I can tell all prior injuries and fatigue did is shorten the fights duration, by shaving away some of their stamina, rather than effecting their abilities. Could there be more too it than that, sure, but so far Oda has not indicated such and i'm very hesitant to believe it ever will have more of a role than Luffy and DD, reaching their breaking point quicker.

As far as the match goes, we need to see more, right now Luffy is massacring DD, but if the fight lives up to it's build up DD should have at least one triumph card left to play to turn things around next chapter.


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## TheWiggian (Apr 29, 2015)

Doffy high (low-mid) diff.


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## Akiji (Apr 29, 2015)

Viz (Stephen's reliable translation) : 


"B-but Luffy isn't damaged at all! While Doflamingo is 10% health... "
...even if he stated that  he can mostly fix his organs 

Doffytards without any reading comprehension can fuck off.


----------



## Freechoice (Apr 29, 2015)

Yep

Although the logic of the situation doesn't quite hold up, (Bellamy punches + Dofla hits = Gamma Knife, Red hawk??? etc.) it's clear Oda was emphasising that both Luffy and Doflamingo are injured to a supposed equal amount.


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## Finalbeta (Apr 29, 2015)

DD mid diffs G4 Luffy if both are 100% health


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## Akiji (Apr 29, 2015)

lol said:


> Yep
> 
> Although the logic of the situation doesn't quite hold up, (Bellamy punches + Dofla hits = Gamma Knife, Red hawk??? etc.) it's clear Oda was emphasising that both Luffy and Doflamingo are injured to a supposed equal amount.



This. 
Writing is awful but it isn't an one-sided handicap affair



Finalbeta said:


> DD mid diffs G4 Luffy if both are 100% health


You're dumb.


----------



## Finalbeta (Apr 29, 2015)

And you are a piece of trash to think that luffy stands a chance


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## TheWiggian (Apr 29, 2015)

Akiji said:


> Viz (Stephen's reliable translation) :
> 
> 
> "B-but Luffy isn't damaged at all! While Doflamingo is 10% health... "
> ...



Traffy gave you everything he had!!! = Bellamy. Can we then powerscale Traffy equal to Post TS Bellamy? I mean common if the damage they dealth is equal, it's obvious that Bellamy is = to Law.



I don't want to wank Bellamy but if you consider their damage to be equal then you probably see them as equal aswell.


----------



## Akiji (Apr 29, 2015)

TheWiggian said:


> Traffy gave you everything he had!!! = Bellamy. Can we then powerscale Traffy equal to Post TS Bellamy? I mean common if the damage they dealth is equal, it's obvious that Bellamy is = to Law.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to wank Bellamy but if you consider their damage to be equal then you probably see them equal aswell.



Traffy is stronger than Bellamy but Doflamingo has fixed a part of his injuries unlike Luffy
Also,Luffy didn't fight back and even if the hits he took were weaker than the hits Doflamingo took, they were way more numerous.



Finalbeta said:


> And you are a piece of trash to think that luffy stands a chance



suk mah dik


----------



## TheWiggian (Apr 29, 2015)

Akiji said:


> Traffy is stronger than Bellamy but Doflamingo has fixed a part of his injuries unlike Luffy
> Also,Luffy didn't fight back and *even* if the hits he took were weaker than the hits Doflamingo took, they were way more numerous.



Even? Ok I'll respect your opinion but it'll be hard to prove the amount of hits cuz both fights were offpanel numerous times.


----------



## Akiji (Apr 29, 2015)

TheWiggian said:


> Even? Ok I'll respect your opinion but it'll be hard to prove the amount of hits cuz both fights were offpanel numerous times.



Thanks to post-ts One Piece  bad writing  
But i'm pretty sure that Oda wanted to emphasize Luffy and Doflamingo are both injured to a significant degree.


----------



## TheWiggian (Apr 29, 2015)

Akiji said:


> Thanks to post-ts One Piece  bad writing
> But i'm pretty sure that Oda wanted to emphasize Luffy and Doflamingo are both injured to a significant degree.




Okay bad writing then.


----------



## Akiji (Apr 29, 2015)

TheWiggian said:


> Okay bad writing then.



Exactly.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Apr 29, 2015)

Doffy is on his deathbed

Anyone who argues otherwise needs to prove to me that Bellamy > Law


----------



## Akiji (Apr 29, 2015)

Bellamy is 2stronk4you


----------



## Quuon (Apr 29, 2015)

Doflamingo's durability and endurance are ridiculous. Seeing as Luffy can't take the same punishment, It's not that hard to fathom the amount of damage they took this arc balance out to the same amount.


----------



## Finalbeta (Apr 29, 2015)

Quuon said:


> Doflamingo's durability and endurance are ridiculous. Seeing as Luffy can't take the same punishment, It's not that hard to fathom the amount of damage they took this arc balance out to the same amount.



Give Luffy ito ito and who knows if he can survive what Doffy survived. One thing for sure, he wouldn't never and ever tank red hawk like Doffy did

Plot removed, Doffy beats current luffy high end of mid difficult - low end of high difficult


----------



## Coruscation (Apr 29, 2015)

I'm going to say that even as one of the harshest critics of the Luffy/Bellamy stuff, something which I haven't seen pointed out is that Bellamy's new move used the same mechanic as G4. He used Hardening on his spring to make it that much harder and more solid and then compressed it with his DF's natural ability to do so. As DD himself stated this made the force "several times" greater. That's probably why he said that the move isn't like before. As we saw G4 made Luffy from causing minor damage at most to causing heavy damage even when Doflamingo blocked, so applying the same reasoning to Bellamy, if he had hit Luffy's COA defense with regular physical attacks, or a regular Spring Hopper, they wouldn't have done squat to Luffy's COA.

So at this point I think that's pretty obviously what Oda had in mind, and that makes it a lot more sensible to believe that Bellamy caused such damage to Luffy. Which still wasn't as much as what DD took since DD stitched himself up to mitigate a lot of his damage.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 29, 2015)

Doflamingo is at 60 percent and let's say luffy is at 60 percent as well.

The thing is Doflamingo at 100 percent has 10,000 HP. While Luffy at 100 percent has 6000 HP. 

Combine that with Doflamingo's much higher durability(outside of G4 luffy). DD can take a lot of punishment. 

So Luffy beating DD even though both are similarly weakened does not mean under normal circumstances luffy can beat DD.


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## Akiji (Apr 29, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Doflamingo is at 60 percent and let's say luffy is at 60 percent as well.
> 
> The thing is Doflamingo at 100 percent has 10,000 HP. While Luffy at 100 percent has 6000 HP.
> 
> ...



Agreed, even if durability isn't everything.
If Luffy needs very high/extreme diff to beat this Doflamingo then he would lose under normal circumstances. 
But a *healthy* Doflamingo wouldn't  low/mid diff a* healthy* G4 Luffy (Except if G4 has a very limited time)


----------



## Amol (Apr 29, 2015)

DD is stronger than Luffy .
It is a fact.
Unless someone considers Law as non factor in fight which is stupid .


----------



## Green Monkey (Apr 29, 2015)

Akiji said:


> Agreed, even if durability isn't everything.
> If Luffy needs very high/extreme diff to beat this Doflamingo then he would lose under normal circumstances.
> But a *healthy* Doflamingo wouldn't  low/mid diff a* healthy* G4 Luffy (Except if G4 has a very limited time)



This is very sensible, but it remains to be seen if he needs high/extreme difficulty. If we go by what happened last chapter, he definitely doesn't, but if DD comes back (which is very likely) and forces it to extreme we can say that. If G4 Luffy continues to shit on DD with DD only having a minor trump card I think you can say Luffy>DD.


----------



## Green Monkey (Apr 29, 2015)

Wave said:


> He didn't fix shit, all he did was stitch his tornup organs with his strings holding them together.



the two definitions for fix that apply are

: to make (something) whole or able to work properly again : to repair (something)

: to deal with or correct 

That is exactly what he fucking did...He stiched his organs together making them able to work properly again, or if you like the other definition, to deal with and correct the effects of Law's gamma knife. 

I think what you mean is "he didn't heal shit".


----------



## TheWiggian (Apr 29, 2015)

Green Monkey said:


> the two definitions for fix that apply are
> 
> : to make (something) whole or able to work properly again : to repair (something)
> 
> ...



Does that mean if Doffy gets knocked out and his Df abilities vanish (the stitch) for that time he dies (from internal haemorrhage et cetera)?


----------



## Green Monkey (Apr 29, 2015)

TheWiggian said:


> Does that mean if Doffy gets knocked out and his Df abilities vanish (the stitch) for that time he dies (from internal haemorrhage et cetera)?



I assume so.

I'm guessing that's where doctor chopper and her "I TREAT EVERYONE" policy comes in. That, or Oda let's someone die for once. Or....something I really hope doesn't happen, is Law turning the other cheek and deciding to repair DD with his DF.

I do think Law's attack has long term effects, I'm not trying to stifle that opinion, but I think DD has fixed himself up for the short term to the point where he can fight unhindered unless the strings are meddled with (Like what a G4 punch might do). In the same way you might fix a car and get it to operating condition, but now it has a lower threshold for damage before it breaks again. Like someone said before I think this was in order to make the fight quick so it is possible to end before bird cage crushes everyone, which is also why I think Oda made up that incredibly stupid scene where Luffy lets Bellamy wreck him instead of just having Luffy 1 shot him to go save his dying friend upstairs.


----------



## TheWiggian (Apr 29, 2015)

Green Monkey said:


> I assume so.
> 
> I'm guessing that's where doctor chopper and her "I TREAT EVERYONE" policy comes in. That, or Oda let's someone die for once. Or....something I really hope doesn't happen, is Law turning the other cheek and deciding to repair DD with his DF.
> 
> I do think Law's attack has long term effects, I'm not trying to stifle that opinion, but I think DD has fixed himself up for the short term to the point where he can fight unhindered unless the strings are meddled with (Like what a G4 punch might do). In the same way you might fix a car and get it to operating condition, but now it has a lower threshold for damage before it breaks again. Like someone said before I think this was in order to make the fight quick so it is possible to end before bird cage crushes everyone, which is also why I think Oda made up that incredibly stupid scene where Luffy lets Bellamy wreck him instead of just having Luffy 1 shot him to go save his dying friend upstairs.



It will most likely turn out like this, if there will be something hinted in the next chapter you'll probably be right if not i expect another asspull from Oda.


----------



## DoctorLaw (Apr 29, 2015)

Still can't believe there are arguments going forward that Bellamy's punches could equal up to a completely unguarded redhawk and gamma knife. Luffy mentioned that Doflamingo was still hurting from what Law did to him, confirming that Doflamingo didn't "LOL HEAL" all the damage away. If Bellamy was doing damage nearly as devastating as gamma knife or a redhawk, Luffy wouldn't have tanked it, and would have attack much more quickly.
The only way Bellamy attack's could put Luffy at the same damage as Doflamingo's is if Bellamy's hits and Trebol's pointless shit all added up to the hits Law got off on Doflamingo, a gamma knife, and a redhawk. Which makes absolutely no sense.

That gamma knife and the repeated mentions from character's and the significance of Law having a hand in avenging his mentor, all points to that gamma knife meaning something. And as we all know, this fight is going to be extreme dif for Luffy, no way he wins anything less, and it'll go down as him beating a ticking time bomb Doflamingo that had to fight Law before him. Luffy's opponent beforehand was a guy that only hit him because he allowed it, and he prompty no diffed him.

Doflamingo > Any iteration of Luffy to this point.


----------



## Yuki (Apr 29, 2015)

DoctorLaw said:


> Still can't believe there are arguments going forward that Bellamy's punches could equal up to a completely unguarded redhawk and gamma knife.



Ffs stop going on about them

Oda mentioned it for a reason ffs, so stfu and just accept it already... omg.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Apr 29, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Ffs stop going on about them
> 
> Oda mentioned it for a reason ffs, so stfu and just accept it already... omg.


----------



## Green Monkey (Apr 29, 2015)

DoctorLaw said:


> Still can't believe there are arguments going forward that Bellamy's punches could equal up to a completely unguarded redhawk and gamma knife. Luffy mentioned that Doflamingo was still hurting from what Law did to him, confirming that Doflamingo didn't "LOL HEAL" all the damage away. *If Bellamy was doing damage nearly as devastating as gamma knife or a redhawk, Luffy wouldn't have tanked it, and would have attack much more quickly.*
> The only way Bellamy attack's could put Luffy at the same damage as Doflamingo's is if Bellamy's hits and Trebol's pointless shit all added up to the hits Law got off on Doflamingo, a gamma knife, and a redhawk. Which makes absolutely no sense.
> 
> That gamma knife and the repeated mentions from character's and the significance of Law having a hand in avenging his mentor, all points to that gamma knife meaning something. *And as we all know, this fight is going to be extreme dif for Luffy, no way he wins anything less, and it'll go down as him beating a ticking time bomb Doflamingo that had to fight Law before him. Luffy's opponent beforehand was a guy that only hit him because he allowed it, and he prompty no diffed him.*
> ...


----------



## MYJC (Apr 29, 2015)

X18999 said:


> I love the fact that people keep saying it was a 2v1 despite there being five people up there fighting.




Yeah. It's crazy how people act like it was a 2v1 fight to the Supernovas' advantage when it was actually a 3v2 fight (Doffy, Trebol, and Bellamy vs. Luffy and Law) that eventually came down to Doffy and Luffy. 

The lengths people go thru these days to avoid admitting Luffy is strong are insane.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Apr 30, 2015)

Luffy wins with extreme difficulty...though, if he would have used gear 4 right away it could be lessened.


----------



## tupadre97 (Apr 30, 2015)

Freecss said:


> Depends on G4 drawbacks and how effective parasite is.
> 
> I'd say Doffy high/very high diffs for now



**


----------



## Coruscation (Apr 30, 2015)

MYJC said:


> Yeah. It's crazy how people act like it was a 2v1 fight to the Supernovas' advantage when it was actually a 3v2 fight (Doffy, Trebol, and Bellamy vs. Luffy and Law) that eventually came down to Doffy and Luffy.
> 
> The lengths people go thru these days to avoid admitting Luffy is strong are insane.



This does indeed need to stop. Oda made sure to never have Luffy and Law actually 2v1 Doflamingo himself fair and square for a reason. Yet even now people say it took Law + Luffy to bring 1 guy down. That's much like when people still damage control'd Vergo by saying it took Law + Smoker to bring him down.

Doffy may be stronger than the SNs, but he's not twice as strong as them and the power of Luffy and Law in a clean 2v1 would be overkill by a good bit.


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## Quikdraw7777 (May 4, 2015)

The events that transpired between Luffy/Law & Mingo, as well as Luffy & Bellamy have all but confirmed for me that Gear Second has completely gone to sh!t.


Such a sad day....


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