# How the fuck did Danzo defeat Shisui?



## Orochibuto (Jun 20, 2012)

Supposedly he was "Shisui of the sunshin" aka extremelly fast, not only that but we are lead to believe his Koto was basically Geass on steroids.

So how did he defeated him or took his eye?  I mean supposedly this is a guy that with enough ability could had pulled a Lelouch, so how did Danzo took his eye? Was Shisui part of ANBU and he allowed it?

So many questions.


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## Ichiurto (Jun 20, 2012)

I would imagine Shisui was Itachi's superior in ROOT.

Most likely, Shisui told Danzou about his plan, and Danzou did a "Fuck that" move and snatched his eye. Shisui probably got away somehow then.

The thing is.. He still had Koto in his other eye. Why didn't he use it? Why didn't Itachi use it?

Did Shisui have to use Koto to get away from Danzou?


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## Gabe (Jun 20, 2012)

hard to tell maybe danzou was not alone or danzou was just a better fighter


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## Brian (Jun 20, 2012)

Probably used his curse seal that he applied to all Root members to paralyze Shisui and snatched his eye


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## Mofo (Jun 20, 2012)

My opinion:
Tobi really is Shisui. He manipulated Itachi into thinking he killed himself and he manipulated  the Uchiha into organizing the coup, he also put an illusion on Danzo so he  would order Itachi to attack the clan.
He sacrificed his eyes but managed his objectives, and since eyes can be transplanted he posed as Uchiha Madara/Tobi.


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## TheSweetFleshofDeath (Jun 20, 2012)

Well, most people consider Izanami Danzou to be his prime when this couldn't be further from the truth. When Danzou fought Sasuke he was old, but he was fast.  Keeping up with Sasuke and being that old is an impressive feat.  Hell, it probally would of been a lopsided match for Danzou without MS techniques (susanoo and Izanami).  Sarotobi in the same manner was hailed as a god among shinobi, and the "strongest hokage" (it should be noted the noone was alive to witness the 1st's power) however is actual performance was lackluster.

Onoki is an exception, and would be considered an old master.  Danzou however, was a master of shinobi in his youth fell from power as he aged.  It's to be expected.  Danzou was most likely a beast when he was younger.


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## BatoKusanagi (Jun 20, 2012)

Prime Danzo was a beast.


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## AoshiKun (Jun 20, 2012)

They didn't fight.
As pointed in many threads before this one Danzou stole Shisui's eyes before he could use Koto.I'm lazy to post everything again so just read the points there


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## UltimateDeadpool (Jun 20, 2012)

Danzo was confirmed to be holding back against Sasuke, and he was 10 years younger back then so he shouldn't had been as weakened by old age.


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## Orochibuto (Jun 20, 2012)

AoshiKun said:


> They didn't fight.
> As pointed in many threads before this one Danzou stole Shisui's eyes before he could use Koto.I'm lazy to post everything again so just read the points there



And how could he do it without defeating him?

What you describe here is worse than a defeat, is a rape. Basically you are saying Danzo speedblitzed Shisui before he could even use Koto.


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## Star★Platinum (Jun 20, 2012)

Shisui had used his eye(s) perhaps, and thus his BEST form of offense was null.  Not to mention he's likely over-rated as hell.  One AMAZING genjutsu used every 10 years, doesn't make you the best user.

Danzo can use seals, he likely paralyzed shisui then did it.


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## Hazuki (Jun 20, 2012)

i think   danzo  wasn't sandaime rival for nothing especially 10 years ago ..


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jun 20, 2012)

Who is to say they fought? Shisui probably walked right up to Danzo to tell him his plan. And Danzo, ever inscrutable, probably decided right then and there what he had to do and plucked out Shisui's eye before the young Uchiha raised his guard. Just like how a blind Madara plucked Izuna's eye without any resistance. It was so shocking that Shisui was unable to do anything about it. He probably fled after that to prevent Danzo from getting his other eye.


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## Brickhunt (Jun 20, 2012)

If Shisui was indeed part of root, then I imagine it doesn't take much for Danzo to activate the seal on his tongue. According to Sai, the seal activates if the person try to spill things about Danzo, maybe it also reacts if a root member try to attack Danzo.


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## TheSweetFleshofDeath (Jun 20, 2012)

Still, I think it's much more likely that Danzou had a bad showing against Sasuke, and 10 years is a long time.  If Shishui, a high tier character in a clan with amazing reflexes couldn't react to Danzou I'd call that a stomp.  That means in the same instance Danzou could have easily killed him.

I also don't think it was a surprise.  From how Shishui was talking it seemed like they talked.


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## Summers (Jun 20, 2012)

Or the Genjutsu failed, and Danzo pull other ROOT members gained up on him, then Danzo took his eye.


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## Fruit Monger (Jun 20, 2012)

At this point I think Shisui's defeat was more due to coercion than combat ability.


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## AoshiKun (Jun 20, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> And how could he do it without defeating him?
> 
> What you describe here is worse than a defeat, is a rape. Basically you are saying Danzo speedblitzed Shisui before he could even use Koto.


Shisui was planning to use his Genjutsu on Danzou but the elder (already knowing what Shisui is capable and that he couldn't be trusted) stole Shisui's eyes before the Uchiha could accomplish it.

Shisui wanted to protect the Uchihas but the same for Konoha so he would never dare to attack Danzou, one must be a fool to think a subordinate would atack his commander whithout suffer the consequences.

If they have fought, Shisui would have been considered a traitor and ANBU Ne would want his head. This isn't what the story says.

It's more like Danzou ordered one of Shisui's eyes and the Uchiha gave it to him, he was just a subordinate anyway. If the Uchiha opposed, Danzou most likely would have killed him.

You have to follow orders no matter what... this is the type or person Danzou was.


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## iJutsu (Jun 20, 2012)

The pain of getting his eyes plucked out probably was enough to snap him out of whatever technique Danzo and ROOT used against him. He was fast enough to escape before he got trapped again.

You can be the best and all that, but if you get blindsided by your supposed comrades, there's not much you can do. Even Naruto will die if Kakashi just decided to stab him for no reason right now.


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## geminis (Jun 20, 2012)

What people fail to runderstand is...Danzou is a true shinobi. If Shisui was stronger, no prob just use underhanded tactics to get the job done.

Plus Danzou had ROOT platoons who followed him wherever as well...let's not also forget this is the guy who was considered Hiruzen's rival!!!

Danzou is a beast stop underplaying him.


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## Sniffers (Jun 20, 2012)

My guess is that when you know about Koto Amatsukami it becomes easy to break out. That's probably it's weakness. So casting it on Danzo would be useless as he'd have other people cancel it later on and perhaps when you focus hard enough you might be able to identify the implanted thoughts and ignore them.

Of course if you have no knowledge of this ability, like Sasuke, then one would never do any of this and thus the Genjutsu will stick successfully. That's my take anyway.


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## Gabe (Jun 20, 2012)

Link removed


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## lain2501 (Jun 20, 2012)

but what make you think that danzou was hanging around alone, surely he must have some back up, any intelligent ninja wouldn't engage a one one with somebody that has Koto...


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## Orochibuto (Jun 20, 2012)

Sniffers said:


> My guess is that when you know about Koto Amatsukami it becomes easy to break out. That's probably it's weakness. So casting it on Danzo would be useless as he'd have other people cancel it later on and perhaps when you focus hard enough you might be able to identify the implanted thoughts and ignore them.
> 
> Of course if you have no knowledge of this ability, like Sasuke, then one would never do any of this and thus the Genjutsu will stick successfully. That's my take anyway.



Itachi was aware he was in Koto, if being aware breaks it then he would had been recontrolled by Kabuto.

Not only the jutsu is subtle it has extreme potency, enough to break edo tensei.


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## Enclave (Jun 20, 2012)

Probably exploited the  Uchiha weakness to rocks in some way.


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## Ch1pp (Jun 20, 2012)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> Danzo was confirmed to be holding back against Sasuke, and he was 10 years younger back then so he shouldn't had been as weakened by old age.



Danzo 2.0 is more beefed up than the pre-massacre danzo.


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## Max Thunder (Jun 20, 2012)

When Danzou 'stole' the eye it could have been more like an unwilling gift by Shisui, both Shisui and Itachi were loyal to the village and a retaliation against Danzou would have been a betrayal against the village.


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## T-Bag (Jun 20, 2012)

typical danzo with a sneak attack. he paralyzed him with that seal and bam took his sharingan. peace out


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## Jason Brody (Jun 20, 2012)

Danzo put roofies into Shisui's tea. 

Seriously, though, as someone said above, he probably used that paralyzing seal on him and just snatched Shisui's eye. If this is the case, though, I'm not sure why he only took one of them.


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## Sniffers (Jun 20, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> Itachi was aware he was in Koto, if being aware breaks it then he would had been recontrolled by Kabuto.
> 
> Not only the jutsu is subtle it has extreme potency, enough to break edo tensei.


Itachi wouldn't specifically ignore Koto's orders though. He embraced them.

It's not that it broke ET. It was overwritten.


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## Nitharad (Jun 20, 2012)

Danzo only needs one touch to place his seal. 
He propably put the seal on Shisui a long time ago as a failsafe.

There propably wasn't even a fight. Shisui tried to activate his Mangekyou, Seal activates, Danzo can give Shisui a lecture speech about how wrong it is to brainwash people, and then pluck his eye out to teach him a lesson.

I know there's hardly evidence to support this, but it's not an unlikely scenario in my opinion.
In fact if I was Danzo I would place seals on everybody on each touch.


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## Wanderlust (Jun 20, 2012)

Liek dis

[YOUTUBE]ki42ZSIJjaU[/YOUTUBE]


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Jun 20, 2012)

Because Danzo is alpha and Shisui is an emo beta.


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## Jizznificent (Jun 20, 2012)

who is to say that it was a 1-on-1?
who is to say that it was head on confrontation?
who is to say that they even fought?

 for all we know something like this could have happened:



Jizznificent said:


> - danzo (and back up) confronted/ sneaked up on/ ambushed etc shisui, who had his guard down at the time, and immobilized him (sleep bomb, sealing jutsu, KO strike to the back of the head etc).
> 
> - after neutralizing and capturing shisui, danzo (with back up) ripped one of shisui's eyes out.
> 
> ...


or anything else.

not every victory or defeat is necessarily due to a head-to-head on battledome style confrontation. after all at the end of the day this is still a *"*ninja*"* manga. if you let your guard down and someone sets up a trap or manages to sneak up on you, that could be all she wrote no matter how powerful you are.


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## On and On (Jun 20, 2012)

HOW DID HE *TOOK* HIS EYE

TWICE


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## Aeiou (Jun 20, 2012)

Hazuki said:


> i think   danzo  wasn't sandaime rival for nothing especially 10 years ago ..



This.. I think people are overrating Shisui and underrating Danzo. Not giving him the sort of respect he deserves.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jun 20, 2012)

by being stronger than him. shisui has no feats of strength.


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## Vergil642 (Jun 20, 2012)

Sneak attack/cursed seal/whatever

Based on what Danzou's shown he can't take a Shisui that lives up to his hype in a straight fight. But this manga isn't the BD, straight fights don't just happen, you can have sneak attacks and all kinds of shenanigans.

Shisui wasn't even necessarily fighting Danzou and may not have expected him to try and steal the eye.

Not enough info to even say there was a fight, let alone ask how Danzou beat his ass (lack of injuries on either party suggests there was no fight too).


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## Zenith (Jun 20, 2012)

Key word: Stole

Implying that it could be obtained not only via brute force,Danzo had his root members which could at any time surprise a Shishui who would not see it coming from his comrades/team mates.


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## titantron91 (Jun 20, 2012)

Funny subtle haters turn this thread into "lol Sasuke weak cuz he fought nerfed Danzo,,, Danzo before was beast he raepd Shisui by eyegouging him like pimp" and "lol Danzo raepd the greatest Uchiha genjutsu user lololol Uchiha ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) fanboys cry"



Shisui was a member of the Root. Shisui trusted him. Shisui likely had the paralysis seal on him and Danzo, being aware of Shisui's true power, used it to restrict Shisui not only of his movement but of his jutsu too. Likely Danzo had help from many root members. Then Danzo proceeds to steal Shisui's eye but Shisui had enough strength to use Susanooh to escape and keep his other eye.

OF COURSE THIS IS JUST A SPECULATION LIKE THE OTHER POSTS.


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## Aazadan (Jun 20, 2012)

Assuming Danzou used on panel abilities and not something new I think it went down like this:
Danzou comes up to Shisui, tells him he needs him for something important but they can't talk out in the open.  Danzou and Shisui walk to a secluded area.  Once no one is around Danzou pretends like he's going to say something to Shisui and pat him on the back.  When his hand hits his back Danzou uses in paralysis seal and Shisui can't move.  At that point Danzou plucks out Shisui's eye.

After that is a mystery.  Danzou doesn't seem the type of person to let Shisui run off with one eye so Shisui must have gotten out of the seal.  At this point it seems Shisui didn't fight for whatever reason (and there's some legit reasons) but instead ran and told Itachi what was up.


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## titantron91 (Jun 20, 2012)

Aazadan said:


> Assuming Danzou used on panel abilities and not something new I think it went down like this:
> Danzou comes up to Shisui, tells him he needs him for something important but they can't talk out in the open.  Danzou and Shisui walk to a secluded area.  Once no one is around Danzou pretends like he's going to say something to Shisui and pat him on the back.  When his hand hits his back Danzou uses in paralysis seal and Shisui can't move.  At that point Danzou plucks out Shisui's eye.
> 
> After that is a mystery.  Danzou doesn't seem the type of person to let Shisui run off with one eye so Shisui must have gotten out of the seal.  At this point it seems Shisui didn't fight for whatever reason (and there's some legit reasons) but instead ran and told Itachi what was up.



Maybe it's like this?

Strong seal can't pin Shisui down? Make the strong seal stronger. Shisui can't afford losing his other eye too.


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## Joker J (Jun 20, 2012)

Brian said:


> Probably used his curse seal that he applied to all Root members to paralyze Shisui and snatched his eye



If that was the case he would have easily got the other eye too.


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## Taijukage (Jun 20, 2012)

danzo didnt have a poor showing vs sasuke. sasuke was just a monster


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## AMtrack (Jun 20, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> Supposedly he was "Shisui of the sunshin" aka extremelly fast, not only that but we are lead to believe his Koto was basically Geass on steroids.
> 
> So how did he defeated him or took his eye?  I mean supposedly this is a guy that with enough ability could had pulled a Lelouch, so how did Danzo took his eye? Was Shisui part of ANBU and he allowed it?
> 
> So many questions.



I think Shisui, like any character, gets blown out of proportion by fandom.  Also danzou got killed off by plot, so everyone thinks he's weaker than he really is.  Sasuke should have lost, but what else is new.


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## jgalt7 (Jun 20, 2012)

izanagi....


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## Rinoa (Jun 20, 2012)

Shisui wasn't "subordinate" of Danzou? Anbu/root and responded to him / Konoha? 
Like Sai had the seal, he could have used something in Shisui that has allowed him to took his eye.
Danzou seemed to leave nothing to chance in relation to its roots.


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## shintebukuro (Jun 20, 2012)

Honestly, I think Shisui was really focused on using Koto Amatsukami, and Danzou blindsided him (Shisui caught completely by surprise) and plucked his eye out, to make sure Koto was either instantly dispelled or unable to cast in the first place.


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## Sock (Jun 20, 2012)

Easy

Danzo:  Hey Shisui, crazy shit goin down.  You heard about this Uchiha rebellion?

Shisui:  Yeah man, i dunno what to do.

Danzo:  I do, me and the boys are gonna get in our pick-ups and go lynch em all in a tree, probably gonna burn a cross in their yard afterwards too.  We even got cool ghost costumes for it.  Wanna join us?

Shisui:  That's pretty messed up man, maybe I can just convince them to stay put.

Danzo:  What, are you some kinda sharingan lover?  

Shisui:  Sure I am, I think everyone should own one.  In fact, I got two of em and they can even mind-fuck people into doing my bidding.  I'm thinking about using it on the Uchiha to stop their uprising.

Danzo:  No way!  Show me!

Shisui:  *activates sharingan* here check this out!

Danzo:  *leans in close* oh how cool  *pluck*

Danzo:    Gimme that god-damn sharingan!  Let that be a lesson, bitch!  Senju Power!

Shisui:


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## Almondsand (Jun 20, 2012)

Look at how much of beast Itachi is compared to Shisui. Hear me out, Shisui got raped and put in his place by Danzo, basically he didn't get a choice. Shisui wanted to use his eye and Danzo said nope, straight robbed him blind on the spot. Shisui ran off, to give Itachi his other one since he couldn't beat Danzo and wanted to make sure that peace will be stabilized by entrusting his power to someone much more skilled and powerful, his younger friend Itachi. When Danzo met with Itachi privately, he tried to speak to Itachi like a boss but what had happened was, Itachi responded with "Is that a threat!?". Smooth chumped Danzo to make him flip flop on what was coming out his mouth, straight made Danzo correct his self on the spot and say no I was just asking for you to choose. That right there show Itachi put fear in everyone's heart.


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## Stormcloak (Jun 21, 2012)

koto confirmed to be useless


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## Shadow050 (Jun 21, 2012)

Ichiurto said:


> I would imagine Shisui was Itachi's superior in ROOT.
> 
> Most likely, Shisui told Danzou about his plan, and Danzou did a "Fuck that" move and snatched his eye. Shisui probably got away somehow then.
> 
> ...



more like Danzou pulled a "that won't work you, dumbass . gimme that damn eye before you just waste it"



Orochibuto said:


> Supposedly he was "Shisui of the sunshin" aka extremelly fast, not only that but we are lead to believe his Koto was basically Geass on steroids.
> 
> So how did he defeated him or took his eye?  I mean supposedly this is a guy that with enough ability could had pulled a Lelouch, so how did Danzo took his eye? Was Shisui part of ANBU and he allowed it?
> 
> So many questions.



gotta remember, Danzou was much younger and able bodied back then... he was the rival of Hiruzen and next candidate for Hokage, and therefore no push over.... unless you think Shisui could give danzou a run back then, it shouldn't be too big of a surprise that he'd defeat shisui, actually.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 21, 2012)

Danzo resorted to power of "off-panel" and "plot". With those 2 powers, even Rikodou Sennin wouldn'T stand a chance.


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## iheartsenpai (Jun 21, 2012)

So yeah, this might be off topic but where was it confirmed that Shisui was a member a ROOT?


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## Orochibuto (Jun 21, 2012)

I honestly think Shisui got the Tobirama treatment 

Defeated in a completely ambiguous situation, but that doesnt look good on its record.


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## tnorbo (Jun 21, 2012)

to all those saying danzo should have been physiacally stronger 10 years ago, don't forget he recently added hashirama's dna. the boost he got from that should easily make up for any age related illnesses he suffered.


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## Edo Madara (Jun 21, 2012)

I have a feeling yagura actually conrtolled not by tobi's genjutsu but by kotoamatsukami
tobi and danzo worked together remember and before uciha massacre shisui worked for danzo

danzo ordered shisui to koto yagura for tobi


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## Edo Madara (Jun 21, 2012)

after used koto to controlled mizukage, shisui gives his eye willingly to danzo
remember shisui have tendency to die for konoha, he know danzo want to protect konoha even though he's bastard so he gives his eyes to itachi and danzo


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## ordycitizen (Jun 21, 2012)

Mofo said:


> My opinion:
> Tobi really is Shisui. He manipulated Itachi into thinking he killed himself and he manipulated  the Uchiha into organizing the coup, he also put an illusion on Danzo so he  would order Itachi to attack the clan.
> He sacrificed his eyes but managed his objectives, and since eyes can be transplanted he posed as Uchiha Madara/Tobi.



But Tobi's height and Shishui's height seem to different much. 

for the OP:
Probably Kotoamatsukami has to put its wielder in low on guard position. Anyway, Danzo is a top knotch killer with strategy, vicious and perhaps psycopathic. Take The Joker from the Batman, he doesn't seem to have much gadgets but he manages to be the archenemy of Batman.


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## crisler (Jun 21, 2012)

couple of days ago i wrote in some thread that i thought shisui was dehyped, completely assuming that shisui was facing danzou.

but then again...

shisui tried to use koto on someone -> danzou, who didn't trust shisui, stole it -> shisui got away and gives his other eye to itachi..

I think, shisui didn't use the koto on danzou. if that was the case, then shisui wouldn't have said 'he didn't trust me', because shisui using koto on danzou have nothing to do with danzou trusting shisui or not.

i think it was rather,

- Shisui was planning to use it either on danzou or fukaku, etc. He only had a vague plan and never decided when, and danzou, who was suspecting shisui from before, ambushed shisui and stole his eyes. like how uchihas were planning a coup and was killed beforehand by itachi, not in a straight battle.

- Shisui was, by danzou's orders, about to use koto on someone, and danzou suspected that shisui would use it on him instead, and stole it.


So, i believe shisui at the moment of losing his eyes wasn't alarmed of danzou. basically an ambush. that would be possible since danzou was the head of root.


If Shisui did face danzou and lose it, then that just makes shisui an asshole and a fodder with great weapon, because being weaker than danzou is pretty pathetic in current power scale. danzou lost to sasuke, and some people might say 'he wasn't using koto', but pre uchiha masscre he had no koto and no sharingans to use izanagi, making him vastly weaker than at the kage arc. 

making him faster and stronger doesn't make a huge difference when all he performed was some lame futon, besides using the sharingans.


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## DoflaMihawk (Jun 21, 2012)

Danzo ambushed the man with 20 Anbu as backup.


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## joshhookway (Jun 21, 2012)

Danzo had Oro give him Mokuton and Izanagi


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