# Big Mom vs Akainu



## YonkoDrippy (Dec 5, 2021)

Who do you think wins?

- Big Mom is at full power with all her homies

*Location*: Wano


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## Djomla (Dec 5, 2021)

Akainu.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 4 | Tier Specialist 4


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 5, 2021)

I think Big Mom wins. 

Akainu already showed he can’t take down a Yonko 1 vs 1. An old, Sick, heavily injured Yonko at that. Big Mom’s durability is nearly as good Kaido’s. Akainu even with the Magma fruit will struggle to damage her.

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## ShadoLord (Dec 5, 2021)

Akainu. Big Mom cannot match him in power.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## VileNotice (Dec 5, 2021)

Post-skip Sakazuki wins, he’s the only admiral who beats her in my opinion. He’s her relative equal in power while also negating Prometheus completely.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Canute87 (Dec 5, 2021)

If Marco can pwn promethus then what the fuck is a magma fist going to do?


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## Turrin (Dec 5, 2021)

I mean with all her homies? Like her entire island of Homies? That might be a problem but otherwise Akainu wins under neutral stips

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 5, 2021)

Can anyone give an actual argument to how Akainu wins?

 Just cause he’s EoS material doesn’t automatically mean he’s stronger than her. Akainu with help from other Marines couldn’t put down Old WB. He’s not beating someone on WB’s lvl 1 vs 1

Reactions: Agree 5 | Tier Specialist 1


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## YellowCosmos (Dec 5, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Akainu already showed he can’t take down a Yonko 1 vs 1.


With your logic, you can end up arguing that Akainu couldn't take town Jimbei, Ivankov and others just because they survived his attacks. Whitebeard was going to die after Akainu attacked him with Meigo, regardless if he lingered for a bit; that's evidence that Akainu could _one-shot_ a weakened Yonkou with the right opening, which is more than you say for the Whitebeard against him (two massive attacks, Akainu wasn't mortally wounded) or Big Mom so far (see Supernovas tank her attacks this arc).

I actually think Big Mom is a bad match-up for Akainu, because she can infuse her soul into a bunch of magma Akainu produces and then use that to absorb some, if not all, of his attacks. But without such a countermeasure, it's the height of optimism to think Akainu will struggle to damage her. Note that when Franky was about to use a Radical Beam, she was planning to use a homie to block it, which suggests that there are attacks she's not willing to take. Imo, what Akainu can do very easily supersedes what Franky can produce (you have a direct analogy between Kizaru and Franky here...)

Reactions: Like 1


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## arv993 (Dec 5, 2021)

YellowCosmos said:


> With your logic, you can end up arguing that Akainu couldn't take town Jimbei, Ivankov and others just because they survived his attacks. Whitebeard was going to die after Akainu attacked him with Meigo, regardless if he lingered for a bit; that's evidence that Akainu could _one-shot_ a weakened Yonkou with the right opening, which is more than you say for the Whitebeard against him (two massive attacks, Akainu wasn't mortally wounded) or Big Mom so far (see Supernovas tank her attacks this arc).
> 
> I actually think Big Mom is a bad match-up for Akainu, because she can infuse her soul into a bunch of magma Akainu produces and then use that to absorb some, if not all, of his attacks. But without such a countermeasure, it's the height of optimism to think Akainu will struggle to damage her. Note that when Franky was about to use a Radical Beam, she was planning to use a homie to block it, which suggests that there are attacks she's not willing to take. Imo, what Akainu can do very easily supersedes what Franky can produce (you have a direct analogy between Kizaru and Franky here...)


He couldn’t take him down when he was in front of him. He loses some credit for that. He was falling to the floor by a sick old low haki wb. Kaido, shanks or big mom wouldn’t lose like that.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 4 | Dislike 1


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## Corax (Dec 5, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Can anyone give an actual argument to how Akainu wins?
> 
> Just cause he’s EoS material doesn’t automatically mean he’s stronger than her. Akainu with help from other Marines couldn’t put down Old WB. He’s not beating someone on WB’s lvl 1 vs 1


Why not?She isn't immune to his lava DF. She isn't immune to aCoA. And even noob awakenings forced her to burn her lifeforce. Akainu's awakening is far stronger and honed than noob awakenings.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Shunsuiju (Dec 5, 2021)

Does Akainu have coc?


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 5, 2021)

YellowCosmos said:


> With your logic, you can end up arguing that Akainu couldn't take town Jimbei, Ivankov and others just because they survived his attacks. Whitebeard was going to die after Akainu attacked him with Meigo, regardless if he lingered for a bit; that's evidence that Akainu could _one-shot_ a weakened Yonkou with the right opening, which is more than you say for the Whitebeard against him (two massive attacks, Akainu wasn't mortally wounded) or Big Mom so far (see Supernovas tank her attacks this arc).


Akainu had to take advantage of WB’s heart attacks to land heavy hits on him. Akainu got put down by 2 Quakes from WB. This was with all the shit and distractions that was going on in MF. He won’t have these advantages against Big Mom. In a 1 vs 1, Any Yonko beats him. Big Mom can just turn his Magma into Homies.  


YellowCosmos said:


> I actually think Big Mom is a bad match-up for Akainu, because she can infuse her soul into a bunch of magma Akainu produces and then use that to absorb some, if not all, of his attacks. But without such a countermeasure, it's the height of optimism to think Akainu will struggle to damage her. Note that when Franky was about to use a Radical Beam, she was planning to use a homie to block it, which suggests that there are attacks she's not willing to take. Imo, what Akainu can do very easily supersedes what Franky can produce (you have a direct analogy between Kizaru and Franky here...)


you can’t honestly think Franky would’ve dealt damage to Big Mom when she’s no-diff blocked attacks from G4 Luffy. And taken attacks from Kidd and Law without trouble.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Van Basten (Dec 5, 2021)

Akainu low end of extreme diff.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Velocity (Dec 5, 2021)

I'd go with Linlin. Pre-skip Akainu had issues with the Haki used by Marco and Vista and Linlin's is on a whole different level to theirs. In terms of physical strength and Haki, Linlin is on the same level as Kaido so she should have higher stats than Akainu.

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## Van Basten (Dec 5, 2021)

Velocity said:


> I'd go with Linlin. Pre-skip Akainu had issues with the Haki used by Marco and Vista and Linlin's is on a whole different level to theirs. In terms of physical strength and Haki, Linlin is on the same level as Kaido so she should have higher stats than Akainu.


Issues? You mean when he shrugged off their team attack? Wut?

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## Tsukuyomi (Dec 5, 2021)

@Daisuke Jigen

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## Velocity (Dec 5, 2021)

Van Basten said:


> Issues? You mean when he shrugged off their team attack? Wut?


He was pushed back by their attack, he did not shrug it off. He was also intercepted and blocked by Marco alone not long after that and one assumes Jinbei used Haki to catch Akainu's magma fist, too. That's three different opponents in one fight alone whose Haki he could not overcome. Kinda seems like a pattern.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2 | Dislike 3


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## Kamisori (Dec 5, 2021)

Velocity said:


> He was pushed back by their attack, he did not shrug it off. He was also intercepted and blocked by Marco alone not long after that and one assumes Jinbei used Haki to catch Akainu's magma fist, too. That's three different opponents in one fight alone whose Haki he could not overcome. Kinda seems like a pattern.


The Akainu downplay has reached a new level

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## Daisuke Jigen (Dec 5, 2021)

Velocity said:


> I'd go with Linlin. Pre-skip Akainu had issues with the Haki used by Marco and Vista and Linlin's is on a whole different level to theirs. In terms of physical strength and Haki, Linlin is on the same level as Kaido so she should have higher stats than Akainu.





Velocity said:


> He was pushed back by their attack, he did not shrug it off. He was also intercepted and blocked by Marco alone not long after that and one assumes Jinbei used Haki to catch Akainu's magma fist, too. That's three different opponents in one fight alone whose Haki he could not overcome. Kinda seems like a pattern.



OT:

*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Funny 5 | Winner 7 | Tier Specialist 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 5, 2021)

Garou said:


> The Akainu downplay has reached a new level


No the Big Mom downplay has reached a new level

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## Velocity (Dec 5, 2021)

Garou said:


> The Akainu downplay has reached a new level


Like I said, I don't rate the Admirals as highly as some people do here. Their showings at Marineford, and before the timeskip in general, simply do not hold up.

A serious Whitebeard had Akainu on the ground, bleeding _profusely_, after just two punches. You think he can take a Thunder Bagua to the face and not even flinch? Both Whitebeard and Rayleigh were able to get the drop on Kizaru multiple times and they're crazy old men that are well out of their prime. Even a half dead Ace could cancel out named techniques from Aokiji so they can't have been that strong, can they? Yet you think Linlin can't blast them away easily? Even Fujitora, after the timeskip, didn't help my perception of the Admirals when he struggled against Sabo and was visibly injured after their fight.

These are the people you believe that can take Emperors on one-on-one and win? Like I've said before, the Admirals need to have undergone a Rocky-style training montage during the timeskip if they want me to believe they're actually a threat to the Emperors.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Dislike 1


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## Velocity (Dec 5, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> No the Big Mom downplay has reached a new level


I think we just have to accept that these guys are working off a tier list that says...

1. Mihawk
2. Akainu
3. Kizaru
4. Fujitora
5. Kaido
6. Linlin
7. Blackbeard
8. Shanks

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Great Potato (Dec 5, 2021)

People tripping if they think Akainu isn't capable of dishing out damage to Big Mom when Kid and Law have both managed to do so.

Reactions: Winner 8 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Velocity (Dec 5, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> People tripping if they think Akainu isn't capable of dishing out damage to Big Mom when Kid and Law have both managed to do so.


Of course he can _hurt_ her, but Killer could hurt Kaido and it's not like you want to argue Killer can beat Kaido right?

Big Mom took that attack from Kid and Law just fine and used up a year of her life to grow even larger and stronger. It's going to take a lot more effort from Akainu to take Linlin down than she'd need to take him down.


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## Eustathios (Dec 5, 2021)

Akainu extreme diff

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## trance (Dec 5, 2021)

red dog extreme diff

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## Shunsuiju (Dec 5, 2021)

Garou said:


> The Akainu downplay has reached a new level


who the... is downplaying akainu? hes the most wanked character aside from zoro.

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## Captain Altintop (Dec 5, 2021)

When Kizaru/Aokiji can beat BM with extreme (_mid to high_) diff. then Akainu can defeat her with around *extreme *(_low) _diff.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## convict (Dec 5, 2021)

Akainu is tougher, more skilled, faster, and more lethal

Big Mom is stronger, has better Haki, and more durable.

Akainu extreme difficulty.

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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Dec 5, 2021)

Imagine taking a guy that says Akainu will struggle to damage bm seriously
and even worse the guy that thinks Wb solos the C3  

Akainu melts her face

Reactions: Funny 1 | Useful 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Kamisori (Dec 5, 2021)

I honestly can't believe that you read the manga and came to such terrible conclusions, I guess you're trolling but I will take the bait.



Velocity said:


> A serious Whitebeard had Akainu on the ground, bleeding _profusely_, after just two punches.


Akainu, unlike Kaido and Big Mom, isn't praised for his durability so I don't understand how it is a bad feat for Akainu to tank a island splitting attack and bleed afterwards? You are acting like Whitebeard ko'ed Akainu with just 2 punches but we literally saw Akainu falling down because the ground wasn't solid and shouting Whitebeards name which clearly shows that he wasn't knocked out. He only lost due BFR. Weaker characters like Law and Kid (compared to Whitebeard) made Big Mom bleed and just like Akainu, she continued to fight. But somehow it's bad for Akainu?



Velocity said:


> You think he can take a Thunder Bagua to the face and not even flinch?


Not even flinch definitely not. He could still stalemate Marco, Vista and some other WBP after taking those 2 Gura punches from Whitebeard which speaks for his insane endurance. A thunder bagua is not knocking Akainu out nor will it put him in a terrible condition. Law literally tanked that attack. Also why do you assume that Akainu will stand there and just take that attack? Akainu has hinted future sight so he will definitely not get caught offguard in a 1v1.




Velocity said:


> Both Whitebeard and Rayleigh were able to get the drop on Kizaru multiple times and they're crazy old men that are well out of their prime.


Whitebeard despite being old was still the strongest pirate and Rayleigh is the former right hand of the Pirate King and one of the strongest characters in the manga. Rayleigh could stall Kizaru but the manga made it clear that it won't last long as we saw Rayleigh sweating while Kizaru only fought with his laser sword, no beams or kicks. For reference, Big Mom gave Marco probs and said the doesn't have enough souls to fight him. And Yamato managed to stall Kaido too. I have old Ray above Yamato and Marco, perhaps you think Rayleigh is much weaker than those 2 since you think that getting stalled by Rayleigh is such a bad thing?






Velocity said:


> Even a half dead Ace could cancel out named techniques from Aokiji so they can't have been that strong, can they? Yet you think Linlin can't blast them away easily?


Big Mom failed to blast away Jimbe, Nico Robin and Franky, what makes you think that she can blast away a fucking Admiral easily? From @Daisuke Jigen:


Daisuke Jigen said:


> OT:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __





Velocity said:


> Even Fujitora, after the timeskip, didn't help my perception of the Admirals when he struggled against Sabo and was visibly injured after their fight.


Do you mean in Dressrosa or Reverie? Because in Dressrosa Sabo did jack shit to Fujitora and he said himself that Issho isn't serious. And in Reverie we don't even know what happend. The only thing we know is that Fujitora was restricted, since his DF can destroys a lot of area and he & Green Bull agreed not to fight since it would wreck the whole place.





Velocity said:


> These are the people you believe that can take Emperors on one-on-one and win? Like I've said before, the Admirals need to have undergone a Rocky-style training montage during the timeskip if they want me to believe they're actually a threat to the Emperors.


Yes they can. And it will get proven once we see them go all out.

Reactions: Winner 11 | Tier Specialist 2


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 5, 2021)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> Imagine taking a guy that says Akainu will struggle to damage bm seriously
> and even worse the guy that thinks Wb solos the C3
> 
> Akainu melts her face


Akainu couldn’t put down WB who’s less durable than Big Mom. He will definitely struggle to damage her. Plus who said WB can solo the C3?

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## Velocity (Dec 5, 2021)

Garou said:


> Yes they can. And it will get proven once we see them go all out.


Given that it's laughable to suggest they weren't going all out at Marineford, you're basically admitting nothing they've shown to date suggests they can actually beat Emperors one-on-one but you're confident that this will change in the future.

That's all I needed to hear.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 2


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## Kamisori (Dec 5, 2021)

Velocity said:


> Given that it's laughable to suggest they weren't going all out at Marineford, you're basically admitting nothing they've shown to date suggests they can actually beat Emperors one-on-one but you're confident that this will change in the future.
> 
> That's all I needed to hear.


Homie read the last sentence and decided to ignore everything else. I mean, look at Punk Hazard. The Admirals would kill most of their own men if they would use their full power.


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 5, 2021)

Garou said:


> Homie read the last sentence and decided to ignore everything else. I mean, look at Punk Hazard. The Admirals would kill most of their own men if they would use their full power.


That doesn’t put them above a Yonko lol


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## Velocity (Dec 5, 2021)

Garou said:


> Homie read the last sentence and decided to ignore everything else. I mean, look at Punk Hazard. The Admirals would kill most of their own men if they would use their full power.


I didn't ignore the rest. It was merely irrelevant to the point you were making, which is that the Admirals haven't shown anything yet that would put them above the Emperors. Which is totally fine. Just like you I am also sure the Admirals will be a lot stronger the next time we see them fight, but this thread isn't about *how strong I think Akainu should be* but *how strong he has been depicted to be*. And his depictions do not, to me, suggest someone capable of beating up Emperors.

It's not a dig at you personally, mind. It's a recurring theme of this section that characters with few to no relevant feats are just assumed to be stronger than Emperors because I guess Emperors are just mid tiers or something.

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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 5, 2021)

Big Mom also has ACoC. Akainu doesn’t. GG


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## GiantForehead (Dec 5, 2021)

Akainu ain't beating a yonko lol

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## Van Basten (Dec 5, 2021)

Velocity said:


> He was pushed back by their attack, he did not shrug it off. He was also intercepted and blocked by Marco alone not long after that and one assumes Jinbei used Haki to catch Akainu's magma fist, too. That's three different opponents in one fight alone whose Haki he could not overcome. Kinda seems like a pattern.


You need to re-read Marineford.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Velocity (Dec 5, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Big Mom also has ACoC. Akainu doesn’t. GG


I'm sure someone will be along any minute to tell you Akainu must have Advanced Conquerer's Haki because Zoro has it and that means anyone stronger than him must also have it but, no, you're right - in fact I'd say all of the Admirals clearly have worse Haki mastery than someone of Rayleigh's calibre and his Haki mastery is obviously below that of an Emperor.


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 5, 2021)

Van Basten said:


> You need to re-read Marineford.


You need to re-read the whole Manga

Reactions: Useful 1 | Neutral 1


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## Velocity (Dec 5, 2021)

Van Basten said:


> You need to re-read Marineford.


I did read it just recently, actually, and there are several takeaways I got from it:

- Akainu's Devil Fruit is stronger than Ace's, but Akainu couldn't land a fatal blow on Ace without forcing him to take a hit by defending Luffy;
- Whitebeard took Akainu down in just two hits, and one assumes that's in spite of Akainu's Armament Haki, which implies Akainu's durability isn't all that;
- Marco, Vista and Jinbei were all capable of blocking Akainu's attacks with Haki and even push him back with it;
- Marco, Vista and Jinbei are also all faster than Akainu, able to intercept his attacks from a further distance than he initiates them;
- Akainu has pretty crap Observation Haki and definitely has no Future Sight because he couldn't sense Shanks coming from like a mile away;
- Akainu didn't try to fight Shanks at all, even before Sengoku told the Marines to stand down.

All this basically tells me that Admirals are too much for one Yonkou commander to handle, but once two or three Yonkou commanders team up they can hold their own pretty damn well against an Admiral. That is very impressive, for sure, but not enough to put an Admiral on the same level as a Yonkou themselves.


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## Incognitos (Dec 5, 2021)

If any admiral even fleet admiral was above a yonko the balance of powers would mean nothing. You could have two admirals almost alone taking down an entire yonko crew with no loses. Make it three admirals and they're gone. It never made any sense to begin with.

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## MO (Dec 5, 2021)

big mom wins. She's too versatile. she can fight with a sword, with her hands, with elements, and she can literally make herself stronger by eating lifespan. So Big Mom wins after a hard fight.

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## Velocity (Dec 5, 2021)

Incognitos said:


> If any admiral even fleet admiral was above a yonko the balance of powers would mean nothing. You could have two admirals almost alone taking down an entire yonko crew with no loses. Make it three admirals and they're gone. It never made any sense to begin with.


Exactly. If the Emperors were so weak that an Admiral could take one on alone, the World Government would just send an Admiral and a fleet of their best Marines after each Emperor and that would be the end of piracy.

It's much more reasonable, for example, to assume Akainu could take on King, Queen and Jack together and win after a difficult fight but would lose to Kaido in a fight than to assume Akainu was stronger than anyone in the Beast Pirates, Kaido included.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## arv993 (Dec 5, 2021)

The same thread with kaido would go kaido’s way. BM is a virtual equal to kaido and ppl out here saying she goes down high diff or extreme low. 


Admiral fans are out here full force giving tier specialists lol get over it, your strongest guy went down in two hits after wb was battered. He may also go down to eos sabo, he may not be worth luffy going after him.

In a real fight, she can turn his awakening into homies which can protect her from future attacks. She has the ap to rival wb and is more durable than deathbed wb. Unless akainu got an insane boost post ts. He is going down extreme low diff.

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## Incognitos (Dec 5, 2021)

Not to mention BM has a great advantage over the c3. She can turn their weapons against them.

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## JustSumGuy (Dec 5, 2021)

Incognitos said:


> If any admiral even fleet admiral was above a yonko the balance of powers would mean nothing. You could have two admirals almost alone taking down an entire yonko crew with no loses. Make it three admirals and they're gone. It never made any sense to begin with.


The argument that the admirals could just beat the yonko if they were stronger is so flawed lol.

If we assume an admiral can beat a yonko we also have to take into account all the territories and other strong crew members the yonko has at their beck and call. To take out a yonko you basically have to stake out an infiltration route and take out the whole crew and that’s gonna take at least two admirals (one for the yonkond a plethora of strong marines.

Sounds simple enough, except when you realize there are other yonko and the revolutionaries who would definitely try and capitalize off of that. Marine HQ just sent two admirals and many strong vice admirals away? They’re vulnerable. And when the yonko is defeated after what is sure to be an extremely difficult fight, the admirals could be caught in a vulnerable position from any outside party that was waiting to pick off the winner.

Also, any move that the marines may take against the yonko would have to be okayed by the Gorosei. And considering we know they deal with Shanks and CP0 deals with Kaido, they might have their own reasons as to not go after them meaning the Marine can’t either. 

Heck, when WB died they weren’t celebrating that they only have to deal with 3 yonko. Instead they were thinking up of the next candidates for the vacant position lol.

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## AmitDS (Dec 5, 2021)

Say hello to Linlin's new Magma Homie
Mamamama hahahaha

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## Brian (Dec 5, 2021)

I think the fight goes either way, mega extreme diff



AmitDS said:


> Say hello to Linlin's new Magma Homie
> Mamamama hahahaha



say hello to hephaestus

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 5, 2021)

Remembering that Big Mom was rivaling prime WB, Roger and Shiki and is now rivaling Blackbeard, Shanks & Kaido...



*#LINLINWITHTHEGOODCAT
      ☀ 🌩 ⚔  *

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## TheNirou (Dec 5, 2021)

What can Big Mom even do against Sakazuki ?


Big Mom can't even knock out a heavily injured Kidd...



Sakazuki took a quake on his face that destroy half of MHQ with minor injuries




Without AdCoC she can do nothing to him, furthermore she has the worst CoO among the top tier.

Sakazuki has far better AP, far better CoO, far better CoA, better reaction speed / travel speed, he is way more versatile with his Logia and Rokushi, he is a better strategist.

I don't know how a mickey mouse Yonko can beat Sakazuki... Big Fraud loses with mid diff.

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## arv993 (Dec 5, 2021)

TheNirou said:


> What can Big Mom even do against Sakazuki ?
> 
> 
> Big Mom can't even knock out a heavily injured Kidd...
> ...


She didn’t even use adcoc and her sovereignty nation attacks are strong.

Also she is 50% of the power of the strongest attack in the verse.

Reactions: Like 4


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## A Optimistic (Dec 5, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Remembering that Big Mom was rivaling prime WB, Roger and Shiki and is now rivaling Blackbeard, Shanks & Kaido...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



she's still gonna lose to kid and law, doesn't matter how many emojis you post

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## AmitDS (Dec 5, 2021)

I always thought that any 1 of the 'C3' vs Big Mom would be one of the most interesting Emperor vs Admiral fights since her durability is arguably the best of the emperors (they can't easily hurt her like Ace for eg) , she's the longest reigning and most experienced of the emperors (she's from Garp's generation & competed with WB/Roger/Shiki) & her ability actually lets her steal their logia in a sense via making homies of each of their elements to add on to Prometheus, Zeus/Hera. Really, if Oda doesn't need gags to limit her in the moment, she should, on paper, be one of the most challenging emperors for Akainu to face rn, with what we know about him from pre timeskip.

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## A Optimistic (Dec 5, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> (they can't easily hurt her like Ace for eg)



lol

big mom's durability hype went out the window after kidd made her face bleed with his awakening

it's fair to assume every top tier can hurt her with their attacks

she needs to block attacks with her swords if she doesnt want to get hurt

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 5, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> she's still gonna lose to kid and law, doesn't matter how many emojis you post


Looking to see what my emojis have to do with her losing to Kidd and Law or not

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## Shunsuiju (Dec 5, 2021)

big mom is the least impressive of the emperors. akainu is the most impressive of the admirals. pretty clear who the winner is.

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## AmitDS (Dec 5, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> lol
> 
> big mom's durability hype went out the window after kidd made her face bleed with his awakening
> 
> *it's fair to assume every top tier can hurt her with their attacks*


Well I should hope so. How lame would it be if other top tiers _cannot_ hurt her?


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## arv993 (Dec 5, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> lol
> 
> big mom's durability hype went out the window after kidd made her face bleed with his awakening
> 
> ...


Just because akainu can hurt her wouldn’t be an auto win. She is more durable than wb so she’s tougher opponent to kill.

She can also block it via homies in this case lava homies she can use from his aoe.

She has better stats, she has better durability, better haki and can counter his op df with her own. She is seen as kaido’s equal which makes her likely stronger than akainu.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Brian (Dec 5, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> I always thought that any 1 of the 'C3' vs Big Mom would be one of the most interesting Emperor vs Admiral fights since her durability is arguably the best of the emperors (they can't easily hurt her like Ace for eg) , she's the longest reigning and most experienced of the emperors (she's from Garp's generation & competed with WB/Roger/Shiki) & her ability actually lets her steal their logia in a sense via making homies of each of their elements to add on to Prometheus, Zeus/Hera. Really, if Oda doesn't need gags to limit her in the moment, she should, on paper, be one of the most challenging emperors for Akainu to face rn, with what we know about him from pre timeskip.



Akainu and Aokiji sure but Kizaru would fly right into a AdCOC punch

Reactions: Funny 2


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## A Optimistic (Dec 5, 2021)

arv993 said:


> Just because akainu can hurt her wouldn’t be an auto win.



when did i say that? i didnt comment on who wins

i was just saying that hyping up her durability stopped being a good argument after what kidd did to her

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 2


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## arv993 (Dec 6, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> when did i say that? i didnt comment on who wins
> 
> i was just saying that hyping up her durability stopped being a good argument after what kidd did to her


Yea and I disagree, she still has good high end durability feats until that point. So relative to old wb her durability is higher, she isn’t going get stabbed all the way through by someone like squardo.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Dec 6, 2021)

@YonkoDrippy 
Why do you make these threads if you’re so clearly bias?

Maybe next time, just let the thread build up and don’t jump on everyone that’s say the yonko loses… chill, breath… something.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 6, 2021)

Beast said:


> @YonkoDrippy
> Why do you make these threads if you’re so clearly bias?
> 
> Maybe next time, just let the thread build up and don’t jump on everyone that’s say the yonko loses… chill, breath… something.


I’m Bias for having an opinion? I already stated I think Big Mom wins from the beginning. Get off my nuts


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## Beast (Dec 6, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> I’m Bias for having an opinion? I already stated I think Big Mom wins from the beginning. Get off my nuts


Well, no need to get your panties in a pinch. It’s more then an opinion when you make threads just to start arguments in favour of yonko… weirdly disturbing. You do you though.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 6, 2021)

Beast said:


> Well, no need to get your panties in a pinch. It’s more then an opinion when you make threads just to start arguments in favour of yonko… weirdly disturbing. You do you though.


So when you Zoro fanboys make biased threads about Zoro it’s ok but when I make a Yonko thread it’s the end of the world? What’s wrong with making a thread to state my opinions? You’re taking this forum way too seriously.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Dec 6, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> So when you Zoro fanboys make biased threads about Zoro it’s ok but when I make a Yonko thread it’s the end of the world? What’s wrong with making a thread to state my opinions? You’re taking this forum way too seriously.


Beast isn’t a zoro fanboy and he’s right you make these threads so you can spam reply about how yonko>admirals. We all get it by now.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 6, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Beast isn’t a zoro fanboy and he’s right you make these threads so you can spam reply about how yonko>admirals. We all get it by now.


Who asked you?


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Dec 6, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Who asked you?


Who asked you?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Beast (Dec 6, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> So when you Zoro fanboys make biased threads about Zoro it’s ok but when I make a Yonko thread it’s the end of the world? What’s wrong with making a thread to state my opinions? You’re taking this forum way too seriously.


I read this like twice… yeah, you’ve definitely got some issues with the yonko/ Admirals thing. Welp, do your thing bud.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 6, 2021)

Beast said:


> I read this like twice… yeah, you’ve definitely got some issues with the yonko/ Admirals thing. Welp, do your thing bud.


Go cry about it


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## Beast (Dec 6, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Go cry about it


Okay Yonko DRIPPY

Reactions: Funny 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 6, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Who asked you?


You replied to me first. No one knows who you are


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## trance (Dec 6, 2021)

beast, why are you having a pissing match with a 20yo? 

talk about a waste of weed

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Beast (Dec 6, 2021)

trance said:


> beast, why are you having a pissing match with a 20yo?


He’s 20? 

Damn, that’s a baby… 

It’s cool man, I’ll just roll another

Reactions: Funny 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 6, 2021)

Beast said:


> He’s 20?
> 
> Damn, that’s a baby…
> 
> It’s cool man, I’ll just roll another


And you’re 30+ on a site arguing about fictional characters. Why don’t u go pay you’re rent or something

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Beast (Dec 6, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> And you’re 30+ on a site arguing about fictional characters. Why don’t u go pay you’re rent or something


I’m 24 but good try… such a young soul, you pay rent via direct debit nowadays, I don’t have to ‘go’ anywhere. 

Have you even figured out how to set up your taxes yet?
£25 per hour financial advice in the heart of London, just PM if you need help going from a teen to a man.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Dec 6, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> You replied to me first. No one knows who you are



You made the thread first. No one knows who you are.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 6, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> You made the thread first. No one knows who you are.


Your mom knows who I am lol


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## Beast (Dec 6, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Your mom knows who I am lol


@trance 
You definitely added that 0 by accident… this is a toddler.
‘Your mum’

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 6, 2021)

jar said:


> OP acts like akainu magma (anal)fisted his mom or something
> 
> such intense butthurt


Lol And you act like Big Mom ate you’re dad’s ass or something

Reactions: Funny 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 6, 2021)

I don’t hate Akainu. I’m just saying he can’t beat Big Mom and that’s fact. You admiral wankers can’t change that

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## GiantForehead (Dec 6, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Duhul10 (Dec 6, 2021)

The one who is a yonko, lol...they sit and laugh at the marines for a reason. Not to mention the guy got 2 shotted by a pampers wearing Sickbeard.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Duhul10 (Dec 6, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> I don’t hate Akainu. I’m just saying he can’t beat Big Mom and that’s fact. You admiral wankers can’t change that


leave them be, let them at least have the poll against mama, thruthful or not

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Dec 6, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Your mom knows who I am lol


Your dad knows who I am

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TheWiggian (Dec 6, 2021)

Beast said:


> @trance
> You definitely added that 0 by accident… this is a toddler.
> ‘Your mum’



He's not that different compared to you lol

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Beast (Dec 6, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> He's not that different compared to you lol


I can definitely come up with better diss then ‘your mum’ plus I’m 4 years older.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 6, 2021)

Lol the amount of coping in here by Admiral wankers is hilarious.

Sakazuki isn't doing shit to Linlin. She'll literally weaponize his Magma against him, fuse with it add Haki to it and anally fist him with his own Magma.

There are levels to this. All Magma would do is feed her Homie allowing it to be more powerful for combined attacks. Linlin is the worst enemy for the C3. Their whole schtick works in her favor.

She wins Low High Difficulty or likely Mid difficulty. Intangible Homies that can be infused with Haki and her consuming of life force is too much for Sakazuki to handle.

Imagine getting Low diffed by a Wheelchair bound Whitebeard and still getting wanked.  His peers like Fujitora and Greenbull are being put in wheelchairs by the likes of fucking Dinkelberg and Morley    but sure Sakazuki wins   

And I know to not take any of the clownpiece posters in here seriously when it comes to polls like these with their Linlin Hate Boner.

@Daisuke Jigen Summoning you for your tier specialist.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 8


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## TheWiggian (Dec 6, 2021)

Beast said:


> I can definitely come up with better diss then ‘your mum’ plus I’m 4 years older.


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 6, 2021)

Beast said:


> I can definitely come up with better diss then ‘your mum’ plus I’m 4 years older.


And I’d still whoop you’re ass lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Dec 6, 2021)

Sakazuki can win post-timeskip, assuming he had a Haki bloom and Oda elevated his status as Fleet Admiral. 

If Wano introduced advanced Conqueror's Haki and Oda is giving it to characters like Zoro, Luffy, etc. you can bet your ass the next time we see Akainu in a full fledged fight, he will have it. It's a mechanic that's been highlighted only this arc, and will only be fleshed out more as time goes by. 

He's the strongest marine alive and a candidate for being one of the series' final villains. It will be an extreme-diff battle and Big Mom can certainly pull off a win. But to act like Akainu is straight up inferior to her and will definitely lose will just come back to bite you in the ass if you jump to such a conclusion.

Reactions: Neutral 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Beast (Dec 6, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> And I’d still whoop you’re ass lol


Nah, buddy… ive already started to unlock my prime levels.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 6, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Sakazuki can win post-timeskip, assuming he had a Haki bloom and Oda elevated his status as Fleet Admiral.
> 
> If Wano introduced advanced Conqueror's Haki and Oda is giving it to characters like Zoro, Luffy, etc. you can bet your ass the next time we see Akainu in a full fledged fight, he will have it. It's a mechanic that's been highlighted only this arc, and will only be fleshed out more as time goes by.
> 
> He's the strongest marine alive and a candidate for being one of the series' final villains. It will be an extreme-diff battle and Big Mom can certainly pull off a win.* But to act like Akainu is straight up inferior to her and will definitely lose will just come back to bite you in the ass if you jump to such a conclusion.*



No it won't because he is inferior  
How difficult is that to understand. The whole assumption here is "Haki Bloom" Like the dude is almost geriatric. He wasn't getting stronger than he was at MF.

He gets Magma fisted with his own Magma. I'm being generous saying Low high difficulty. Matchups are a thing. She has the clear matchup advantage here. She's taken Lightning strikes that output more power and heat than anything Sakazuki has shown thus far and has walked out of it just fine. 

He's a close combat brawler. He would get bullied and choked like the little dog he is against Linlin.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 4


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## Mihawk (Dec 6, 2021)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> No it won't because he is inferior
> How difficult is that to understand. The whole assumption here is "Haki Bloom" Like the dude is almost geriatric. He wasn't getting stronger than he was at MF.
> 
> He gets Magma fisted with his own Magma.



See this is an assumption. You're assuming the Haki Bloom doesn't mean shit when the manga says otherwise in life or death situations. He will be as strong as Oda wants him to be. 

He will magma fist the shit out of Big Mom's homies. 

Also if there's anyone who's geriatric it's Big Mom. She's the one who slept with a million dudes and is pushing 70 soon.


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## A Optimistic (Dec 6, 2021)

beast vs yonkodrippy

Reactions: Funny 10


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 6, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> See this is an assumption. You're assuming the Haki Bloom doesn't mean shit when the manga says otherwise in life or death situations. He will be as strong as Oda wants him to be.
> 
> He will magma fist the shit out of Big Mom's homies.
> 
> Also if there's anyone who's geriatric it's Big Mom. She's the one who slept with a million dudes and is pushing 70 soon.


What the fuck is a magma fist going to do? The Homies cannot be hurt.  On the other hand, there are elemental advantages that she can take advantage of such as a what happens when magma is struck by lightning.

Listen the only person a Haki bloom applies to is Monkey D Jesus. I could literally say the same Haki Bloom bullshit for Linlin. 

Linlin can be on her deathbed like Newgate was and she'd still slap Sakazuki like a fly. 


Her DF > His DF due to the fact that whenever he chooses to perform any AOE Attack, it becomes Homie fodder
Her Physical Stats  > His Physical stats. He is a brawler. She would manhandle him. 
Her Haki > His Haki. She is CoC user an advanced one at that. Sure he might end up having CoC but for now she is superior in that department. 

You have to be willfully ignorant to ignore how much of an advantage she has in this fight. Theres nothing that Sakazuki does well here that outright gives him an advantage over her. Nothing! And we won't even go to the Lifespan shenanigans she can pull off.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 6, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> beast vs yonkodrippy


Beast has four years of unforgiving life experiences and tier specialist posting on Drippy so my money is on him.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 6, 2021)

All tier specialists, post up. Especially you @Garou 

Come argue why Sakazuki doesn't get slapped here.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## VileNotice (Dec 6, 2021)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> No it won't because he is inferior
> How difficult is that to understand. The whole assumption here is "Haki Bloom" Like the dude is almost geriatric. He wasn't getting stronger than he was at MF.
> 
> He gets Magma fisted with his own Magma. I'm being generous saying Low high difficulty. Matchups are a thing. She has the clear matchup advantage here. She's taken Lightning strikes that output more power and heat than anything Sakazuki has shown thus far and has walked out of it just fine.
> ...


Lightning strikes that couldn’t OHKO Zoro, Killer, or Ulti? Weaker than Meigo?

Anyway everything points to Sakazuki being a level above the admirals he commands. Unlike Sengoku who was out of the fray for years when we met him as Fleet Admiral, Sakazuki earned the rank through the most extreme diff battle thus far included in the manga. Not to mention the manga has hyped “Sakazuki’s marines” as being stronger than they were in the past.

So the man is Yonko level, and one of Linlin’s main weapons will not work against him. If she creates a magma homie, it will not hurt him. And she can’t create homies as a defensive maneuver / to redirect attacks either, otherwise she would’ve done it to Kid’s metal beams.

He will certainly take a beating from her physical attacks but ultimately he’s more lethal in close combat.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 6, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Lightning strikes that couldn’t OHKO Zoro, Killer, or Ulti? Weaker than Meigo?
> 
> Anyway everything points to Sakazuki being a level above the admirals he commands. Unlike Sengoku who was out of the fray for years when we met him as Fleet Admiral, Sakazuki earned the rank through the most extreme diff battle thus far included in the manga. Not to mention the manga has hyped “Sakazuki’s marines” as being stronger than they were in the past.
> 
> ...


Lol, who the fuck has Meigou hit except a Hakiless WB you're using a flawed comparisoin. 

You're circularly wanking him. Unless you think that Sakazuki is 2 tiers above other Admirals, taking 10 days to beat another Admiral while impressive is not as impressive as you're making it out to be. His peers were left in bandages facing the likes of Lindberg and Morley. 

 You have nothing to prove that he is Yonko level. We saw how his fight against a Yonko went. He had every advantage to him in that environment and was still crushed. 

The creation of a Magma homie has several advantages.

1. The Homie can straight up uptake the Magma he creates, growing stronger from it. 
2. Linlin can fuse with the Homie and likely gaining a measure of temperature resistance when she does that.
3. The Magma Homie can be infused with Haki. The moment it is infused with Haki, he is getting fisted just like everyone claims he does to everyone else. 

His lethality means nothing when she can outright replicate that same lethality if not higher with his own abilities. Hurting Linlin takes far more effort than hurting a hakiless deathbeard Whitebeard. Sakazuki got to town against WB that was having constant heart attacks and still got crushed. 

He isn't winning a CqC battle against her. 

And the lightning thing is when Magma is struck by lightning, it quickly hardens. 

She is a at DF advantage (A Massive one)
She is Superior physically (And it's not even close)
She is superior with Haki (Not even close) 

He has nothing here that helps him beat her. Feats against a Hakiless WB need not apply

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Mihawk (Dec 6, 2021)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> What the fuck is a magma fist going to do? The Homies cannot be hurt.  On the other hand, there are elemental advantages that she can take advantage of such as a what happens when magma is struck by lightning.


What elemental advantages?

When was it stated lightning has an advantage over magma lol? 

If Kidd can hurt Big Mom...if freaking Franky can inflict minimal damage even, what makes you think Akainu can't do nothing?



RossellaFiamingo said:


> Listen the only person a Haki bloom applies to is Monkey D Jesus.


Baseless. Hyogoro's statement was made from experience and applied in general. 


RossellaFiamingo said:


> I could literally say the same Haki Bloom bullshit for Linlin.


How? 

When did she have a 10 day fight to the death? She hasn't been pushed in a fight this much in ages. 


RossellaFiamingo said:


> Linlin can be on her deathbed like Newgate was and she'd still slap Sakazuki like a fly.


Well considering she's failed to slap Kidd and Law around like flies, no. 


RossellaFiamingo said:


> Her DF > His DF due to the fact that whenever he chooses to perform any AOE Attack, it becomes Homie fodder


What? When was this states?


RossellaFiamingo said:


> Her Physical Stats  > His Physical stats. He is a brawler. She would manhandle him.


Except he's not just limited to his physical stats. Yeah if it was CqC she has the advantage. But Akainu was able to clash evenly with Whitebeard for a while so that won't be a problem.


RossellaFiamingo said:


> Her Haki > His Haki. She is CoC user an advanced one at that. Sure he might end up having CoC but for now she is superior in that department.


Okay.


RossellaFiamingo said:


> You have to be willfully ignorant to ignore how much of an advantage she has in this fight. Theres nothing that Sakazuki does well here that outright gives him an advantage over her. Nothing! And we won't even go to the Lifespan shenanigans she can pull off.



Well I know you're trolling so fine...I'll accept that I'm being the ignorant one.


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## VileNotice (Dec 6, 2021)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Lol, who the fuck has Meigou hit except a Hakiless WB you're using a flawed comparisoin.
> 
> You're circularly wanking him. Unless you think that Sakazuki is 2 tiers above other Admirals, taking 10 days to beat another Admiral while impressive is not as impressive as you're making it out to be. His peers were left in bandages facing the likes of Lindberg and Morley.
> 
> ...


This mythical magma homie can’t deal out top tier attacks if Prometheus and Zeus can’t deal out top tier attacks. BM is like Kaido, their physical abilities are top tier but their elementals have never done serious damage to someone above YC level, they are for support and versatility. Also, they can’t be imbued with haki. They are separate from haki,  haki doesn’t hurt them and they cannot be infused. Napoleon is different as a physical object.

So magma homie will be weaker than magma fist just like Prometheus is weaker than Sabo’s fire fist next time we see it. If lightning indeed beats magma then she will win but that interaction hasn’t been shown in the manga.

And while she is defensively superior to WB none of her physical attacks pack the punch of a Gura quake, which Akainu survived. Everything about WB had declined by MF besides his DF offense, he was still cracking islands casually.


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## Great Potato (Dec 6, 2021)

jar said:


> OP acts like akainu magma (anal)fisted his mom or something



Akainu is magma (anal)fisting his Mom as far as this match-up is concerned.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Tier Specialist 2


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 6, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> This mythical magma homie can’t deal out top tier attacks if Prometheus and Zeus can’t deal out top tier attacks. BM is like Kaido, their physical abilities are top tier but their elementals have never done serious damage to someone above YC level, they are for support and versatility. Also, they can’t be imbued with haki. They are separate from haki,  haki doesn’t hurt them and they cannot be infused. Napoleon is different as a physical object.
> 
> So magma homie will be weaker than magma fist just like Prometheus is weaker than Sabo’s fire fist next time we see it. If lightning indeed beats magma then she will win but that interaction hasn’t been shown in the manga.
> 
> And while she is defensively superior to WB none of her physical attacks pack the punch of a Gura quake, which Akainu survived. Everything about WB had declined by MF besides his DF offense, he was still cracking islands casually.


Pure headcanon. We've seen AP and destructive Capacity from Zeus and Prometheus that exceed Enel and Ace on panel. We see Air slashes imbued with Haki. If Logia's could not be infused with Haki then it literally makes them far weaker overall. 

You can make the argument for Zeus and prometheus since they are energy based but Magma is physical. Fusing her fist with Magma does not stop her from infusing it with Haki. 

Also very funny you're now claiming that Sakazuki's mythical magma once it's made into a homie will all of a sudden become weaker because it's now a homie. It's fucking Magma. Its properties and temp don't change because it's Sakazuki wielding it. 

And if we want to talk about Antifeats, Sakazuki's mythical magma failed to leave lasting marks or injuries against the likes of fucking Curiel and other pirate fodder. 

And lol, You do know she has Ikoku right? Which everytime its shown on panel blasts holes through stone, metal and everything in its path for kilometers at a time. 

You have nothing here. This is a terrible matchup for him. He has yet to shown Adv CoC even without it, Linlin would man handle him in CqC which is all he seems to be good at. The moment he goes fo Aoe, she gets a Magma homie uptaking his own magma which you claim is stonger than the one the homie could make. 

So in the end the homie is still uptaking Sakazuki's magical magma and with that she would fuse with it, arm it with Haki and fist him.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Dec 6, 2021)

Hakiless whitebeard  

how nice of akainu to turn off his intangibility to make it a fair fight

Reactions: Funny 2 | Informative 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 6, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> What elemental advantages?
> 
> When was it stated lightning has an advantage over magma lol?
> 
> ...



1. Lighting vs Magma. When Lighting strikes Magma, it quickly hardens it or vaporizes it. 

2. Kidd used a literal awakening to hurt Linlin. And Franky has no evidence that he can hurt Linlin. Being alarmed by something =/= it's going to hurt you. And no I never said Sakazuki can do nothing. He just has an uphill battle to climb to actually deal any significant damage to her. And again, she can mitgate most of these things using a Magma homie. 

3. Being pushed 10 days against someone you have a DF advantage against isn't very impressive is it? I want to see characters other than the main cast get their Haki bloom. We both know it's simply a mechanism to ass pull powerups for the main cast because Oda does a poor job of building up characters.

4.He was clashing with a deathbeard WB and was smacked around. Linlin is not on her deathbed and if hes gonna resort to AOE, then he's just creating Magma fodder. And She can fly with her homies. What stops her from staying up in the sky and fighting while baiting him to come in close with Geppo only to snatch him up the air.

And no this is no troll. He has no advantage here. You and the people here have nothing but assumptions. I'm laying down what we've seen on panel and I'm not even pushing her powers to the levels people are pushing Sakazuki's. 

I can literally make the wild jump that she takes 10 years off her life span and murders him low difficulty.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Dec 6, 2021)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> Hakiless whitebeard
> 
> how nice of akainu to turn off his intangibility to make it a fair fight


Whitebeard had basic CoA and 0 CoO/CoC when he fought Akainu and still trashed him.


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## Great Potato (Dec 6, 2021)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> And lol, You do know she has Ikoku right? Which everytime its shown on panel blasts holes through stone, metal and everything in its path for kilometers at a time.



Ikoku, the attack that obliterates everything in it's path... everything except for Eustass Kid and his mech.

Reactions: Funny 4 | Tier Specialist 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 6, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> Ikoku, the attack that destroys everything in it's path... everything except for Eustass Kid and his mech.


Magma, the element that melts everything it touches except god tier Curiel and WB fodders  

And Kid has yet to take an Ikoku directly lol. Even MC luffy jesus dodges anytime the attack comes his way.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 6, 2021)

Anyways i got finals to go study for.

Sakazuki gets low high diffed without lifespan uptake.

I'll continue to accept your tier specialists

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## VileNotice (Dec 6, 2021)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Pure headcanon. We've seen AP and destructive Capacity from Zeus and Prometheus that exceed Enel and Ace on panel. We see Air slashes imbued with Haki. If Logia's could not be infused with Haki then it literally makes them far weaker overall.
> 
> You can make the argument for Zeus and prometheus since they are energy based but Magma is physical. Fusing her fist with Magma does not stop her from infusing it with Haki.


Yes I believe Logias can infuse elements with haki right as they are producing them from their own body, like a sword slash. But even if we treat magma homie like Napoleon and BM could hakify it that’s not helpful against Sakazuki, who IS magma. It would do no more damage against him than a regular aCoC punch, if not less.


RossellaFiamingo said:


> Also very funny you're now claiming that Sakazuki's mythical magma once it's made into a homie will all of a sudden become weaker because it's now a homie. It's fucking Magma. Its properties and temp don't change because it's Sakazuki wielding it.


It’s weaker because it’s not a continuous attack coming from Sakazuki’s body, imbued with all of the strength and haki he chooses to use. I’m mostly basing this off the fact Prometheus hasn’t done significant damage to anyone relevant regardless of how big and scary he gets. 


RossellaFiamingo said:


> And if we want to talk about Antifeats, Sakazuki's mythical magma failed to leave lasting marks or injuries against the likes of fucking Curiel and other pirate fodder.


The high end feats speak for themselves, as do Oda’s words about it being the best offensive fruit.


RossellaFiamingo said:


> And lol, You do know she has Ikoku right? Which everytime its shown on panel blasts holes through stone, metal and everything in its path for kilometers at a time.


Ikoku is still weaker than Gura quake.


RossellaFiamingo said:


> You have nothing here. This is a terrible matchup for him. He has yet to shown Adv CoC even without it, Linlin would man handle him in CqC which is all he seems to be good at. The moment he goes fo Aoe, she gets a Magma homie uptaking his own magma which you claim is stonger than the one the homie could make.
> 
> So in the end the homie is still uptaking Sakazuki's magical magma and with that she would fuse with it, arm it with Haki and fist him.


She has to tank, avoid, or block a huge magma attack before she can even make the homie (see Kid’s Punk Crash) unless Sakazuki has no knowledge of her DF and uses awakening to make the floor lava or something.

Also, it takes a bit of time to create a special homie as seen with Hera. I don’t think a magma homie with a fodder soul would be able to continuously absorb more magma.


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## Great Potato (Dec 6, 2021)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> And Kid has yet to take an Ikoku directly lol. Even MC luffy jesus dodges anytime the attack comes his way.



Always amuses me how this is the go to argument of Big Mom fans every-time Kid endures one of her big attacks, that she somehow missed. Same desperate excuse they tried throwing out to justify him eating Fulgora and Mama Raid. I guess Kid happened to send himself flying through the wall bleeding for fun?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Daisuke Jigen (Dec 6, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> If Kidd can hurt Big Mom...if freaking Franky can inflict minimal damage even, what makes you think Akainu can't do nothing?


Ah, but you see, Yonko crewmembers have an ability called the Anti Admiral Aura. With this power, Yonko First Mates haven't been shown to be inferior to Admirals whatsoever, in fact, based on Marco and Ben Beckman's clashes with them, they are superior to Admirals. And even lower ranked Yonko Commanders have needed to be distracted in order for the Admirals to damage them. So based on that, how can the so called strongest Admiral, who needed ten days to change the climate of an island (something easily replicated by Ace) and to defeat Aokiji, possibly hope to even scratch Linlin, someone who even Roger fled from?

Reactions: Funny 5 | Informative 1 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Phantom Thief (Dec 6, 2021)

You'd think some people in here believe Chopper could take down Akainu. Imagine this being anything other than an extreme-diff match-up lol


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## Lmao (Dec 6, 2021)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Like the dude is almost geriatric.


Big Mom is 68 while Akainu is 55 tho

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kamisori (Dec 6, 2021)

Daisuke Jigen said:


> Ah, but you see, Yonko crewmembers have an ability called the Anti Admiral Aura. With this power, Yonko First Mates haven't been shown to be inferior to Admirals whatsoever, in fact, based on Marco and Ben Beckman's clashes with them, they are superior to Admirals. And even lower ranked Yonko Commanders have needed to be distracted in order for the Admirals to damage them. So based on that, how can the so called strongest Admiral, who needed ten days to change the climate of an island (something easily replicated by Ace) and to defeat Aokiji, possibly hope to even scratch Linlin, someone who even Roger fled from?


Let's not forget that the Anti Admiral Aura comes with the Alzheimer's disease, where people tend to forget the anti-feats of non-Admiral characters!

Reactions: Funny 6 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Mihawk (Dec 6, 2021)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> 1. Lighting vs Magma. When Lighting strikes Magma, it quickly hardens it or vaporizes it.



Not according to Oda because he never said that. 

The Magma being > fire already contradicts real life logic, and so does equality between magma/ice. 


RossellaFiamingo said:


> 2. Kidd used a literal awakening to hurt Linlin.


Guess who else has Awakening...Doflamingo, Katakuri, etc. You think they have a better chance of hurting BM than Akainu?


RossellaFiamingo said:


> And Franky has no evidence that he can hurt Linlin.


He bruised her face, albeit for a moment.


RossellaFiamingo said:


> Being alarmed by something =/= it's going to hurt you. And no I never said Sakazuki can do nothing. He just has an uphill battle to climb to actually deal any significant damage to her. And again, she can mitgate most of these things using a Magma homie.



It's really just simple power scaling. Law can deal damage to Kaido. Kidd can deal damage to Big Mom and even overpower for an instant. Zoro can deal a permanent scar to Kaido. 

Akainu is on a completely different level from these guys, so yes he can deal significant damage.


RossellaFiamingo said:


> 3. Being pushed 10 days against someone you have a DF advantage against isn't very impressive is it?


It was never stated that Akainu had a DF advantage against Aokiji. Only DF advantage he had was against Ace. 

Akainu and Kiji fought for 10 days and their elements split the island equally. Akainu didn't win due to DF advantage. He won by a hair. They cancelled each other out for 10 days. 


RossellaFiamingo said:


> I want to see characters other than the main cast get their Haki bloom.


Yeah, but Hyogoro's statement was made with reference to how Haki actually works in the context of the verse.


RossellaFiamingo said:


> We both know it's simply a mechanism to ass pull powerups for the main cast because Oda does a poor job of building up characters.


Um well if that's the case that the same can be said for Advanced CoC. Regardless, these things are mechanics introduced by Oda to give characters power ups and I'm glad you agree. Awakenings, Advanced CoC, Haki Blooms, etc. 

If Akainu is one of the main antagonists of the series and the strongest marine alive right now with a tremendous amount of plot relevance in the grander scheme of things, you can bet that Oda will give him some of these mechanisms or power ups, if not all 3. 


RossellaFiamingo said:


> 4.He was clashing with a deathbeard WB and was smacked around.


He clashed with a post-Squard Whitebeard which was still close to the beginning of the War. Oda portrayed those clashes equally until heart attacks started kicking in and created openings for Akainu to inflict damage. The same can be said when Whitebeard was bloodlusted and found an opening behind Akainu and brought him down. Still paid with it by losing half his head.  


RossellaFiamingo said:


> Linlin is not on her deathbed and if hes gonna resort to AOE, then he's just creating Magma fodder.


Output is a different thing. We don't know the ceiling of their output. I'm sure Lin Lin has AoE too for days. But considering she was outwitted by Law and sent flying off the island by him and Kidd, Akainu won't be so easily dealt with as you're suggesting. 


RossellaFiamingo said:


> And She can fly with her homies.


Akainu was shown to be able to fly when pursuing Jimbei in Marineford. 


RossellaFiamingo said:


> What stops her from staying up in the sky and fighting while baiting him to come in close with Geppo only to snatch him up the air.


He can propel himself using his magma as per canon. Not only that, he can rain down magma showers from the skies above. If she wants to stay in the skies, she can do so...but that just means we have a stalemate on our hands.


RossellaFiamingo said:


> And no this is no troll. He has no advantage here.


What advantage does she have? When has she been shown to turn ice or magma into Homies when they are active attacks of a higher level. When did she turn Kidd's metal into Homies? Or the waves that Jimbei used in his attacks against her? Seems like you're the ones making assumptions. 


RossellaFiamingo said:


> I'm laying down what we've seen on panel


Same. We've seen Robin send Big Mom on a red carpet. We've seen Chopper, Jimbei negate her attacks and even send her back. We've seen Nami zap her. We've seen Kidd and Law send her flying and send her face into the ground. 

So yeah...


RossellaFiamingo said:


> and I'm not even pushing her powers to the levels people are pushing Sakazuki's.


You implied his magma will do less than significant damage to her, and that she can simply negate whatever he throws at her by turning them into homies. That's the same as saying the Admirals can't damage Kaido...while far lesser characters have. 

Meanwhile, guys are simply using power scaling to indicate that Akainu should and can damage her for Oda's world to make sense. 



RossellaFiamingo said:


> I can literally make the wild jump that she takes 10 years off her life span and murders him low difficulty.


Sure, make that wild jump. 

No one here is claiming Akainu magma fists her with a one-shot. Well at least I hope they're not.


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## trance (Dec 6, 2021)

@A Optimistic i told you MO's power can't compare to rossella's

Reactions: Funny 4


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## MO (Dec 6, 2021)

Lmao said:


> Big Mom is 68 while Akainu is 55 tho


Big Mom is still looking good tho.   


and Oda really told the biggest lie when he said Akainu was the most handsome man in one piece.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## TheWiggian (Dec 6, 2021)

MO said:


> Big Mom is still looking good tho.
> 
> 
> and Oda really told the biggest lie when he said Akainu was the most handsome man in one piece.



Could've said Big Mom is the most handsome man in one piece but he didn't.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## MO (Dec 6, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Could've said Big Mom is the most handsome man in one piece but he didn't.


Prime Big Mom is the most beautiful character in one piece.

Reactions: Like 3 | Friendly 2


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## TheWiggian (Dec 6, 2021)

MO said:


> Prime Big Mom is the most beautiful character in one piece.



Prime Big Mom looks good, that I can agree on.

Reactions: Friendly 3


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## trance (Dec 6, 2021)

MO said:


> Prime Big Mom is the most beautiful character in one piece.


i can't believe im saying this but agreed



MO said:


> and Oda really told the biggest lie when he said Akainu was the most handsome man in one piece.


you right

its prime wb

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## MO (Dec 6, 2021)

trance said:


> you right
> 
> its prime wb


I once said WB was an ugly man and got like 20 disagrees. I was shocked people actually thought he looked good.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 4 | Disagree 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 6, 2021)

MO said:


> I once said WB was an ugly man and got like 20 disagrees. I was shocked people actually thought he looked good.


With his Jay Leno, Crimson Chin looking ass.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Disagree 1


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## Klarionan (Dec 6, 2021)

Extreme diff either way, but the Big Mom lowballing on this forum is on such incredibly retarded levels, that i am surprised that many of the users on here can even start their computers or phones

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## BladeofTheMorning (Dec 6, 2021)

I don’t know to be honest. I mean Jinbei did block a magma attack from Akainu who’s to say Big Mom can’t? Her durability is much larger than Jinbei’s.

Then, it’s safe to assume, she can coat her stuff with CoC and land hits in Akainu. The Magu Magu works on fodders well, not experienced fighters. Aokiji went ten days straight against Akainu with a elemental advantage, I mean ace melted his ice pheasant directly… What would a magma fist do?

Comes down to that there Haki. I gave it to Akainu anyways but I think Big Mom takes it if she has her shit together.


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## MO (Dec 6, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> With his Jay Leno, Crimson Chin looking ass.


fr.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 6, 2021)

Big Mom stalemated a healthy emperor over the course of 2 days while Akainu was having issues with a sick, somewhat haki less emperor and has not been given hype/feats above Big Mom or any healthy/full powered emperor, at least not yet, so where do people get the idea that current Akainu beats her especially with less than extreme diff?

Also, Law's awakening specifically allowed him to bypass Big Mom's defenses and Kidd's was as effective as it was due to him being surrounded by many steel girders and it took a combined effort from those guys to hurt her as much as they did and she still was not badly wounded and was ready to fight immediately after.

Them hurting her more than Kaido did over the course of 2 days isn't a knock against Big Mom but a feat for them and their DF/DF mastery. There's no evidence that Akainu's magma even with his awakening can allow him to easily overpower her, especially given that she can in theory, just make magma homies to counter and she can bolster her durability (one of the best in the series) with top tier armament (also likely 1 of the best in the series).

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## arv993 (Dec 6, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Not according to Oda because he never said that.
> 
> The Magma being > fire already contradicts real life logic, and so does equality between magma/ice.
> 
> ...


Look it’s simple if akainu got a boost he has a shot to win. But MF akainu is def weaker than Big mom. 

She has a coc and hax sword attacks so she has the AP to win.

She has better durability than wb and doesn’t have heart attacks like wb. Even though with that sweet tooth she should.

Also magma homies can block magma attacks as well so she has him hax as well.plus has napoleon to block so she can counter his awakening and attacks with multiple options.

Akainu is the more intelligent one and has a lethal fruit no doubt but MF akainu is def lower based on feats.


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## AmitDS (Dec 6, 2021)

MO said:


> Prime Big Mom is the most beautiful character in one piece.


Oda should have her be called the most beautiful woman like Boa is now, during the Rocks era. We need this in the flashbacks.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Duhul10 (Dec 6, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> Extreme diff either way, but the Big Mom lowballing on this forum is on such incredibly retarded levels, that i am surprised that many of the users on here can even start their computers or phones


Welcome to the jungle ! You'll get used to it...

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Great Potato (Dec 6, 2021)

The problem with people who downplay the Admirals is they do so by trying to present Whitebeard as some meager old man not worthy of his Yonko position, when he showed up at Marineford as the recognized WSM and still to this day carries some of the best feats in the manga. 



> _while Akainu was having issues with a sick, somewhat haki less emperor_



Like where does somebody get off writing a statement like this as though Whitebeard is some fodder that it's embarrassing for an Admiral to so much as have issues with him? What exactly do people think would have happened if Big Mom or Kaido fought Marineford Whitebeard? That they'd just brush him under the rug without breaking a sweat? The same Big Mom who ran from Marco because she claimed she didn't have souls necessary to deal with him and the same Kaido who got stalled for chapters on end by Yamato, but people think Whitebeard isn't an issue for them? The man said to have ruled the era standing at the side of the throne?

Whitebeard fought all three Admirals and didn't get the upper hand on any of them in direct confrontation. Aokiji avoided his haki infused bisento stab and was about to counter-attack when Jozu stepped in and took over. Kizaru dodged his attack and sent some lasers through his torso for the trouble. Akainu clash ended with Whitebeard having a heart attack and his chest pumped with magma. Newgate only got damage in when he snuck Akainu from behind and he lost a big chunk of his head for the effort, but with recent feats it's laughable to think Kaido or Big Mom would have come out clean on the receiving end of those bloodlusted quakes when we've seen them screaming in agony and bleeding from the face from much less.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 8 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Velocity (Dec 6, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> The problem with people who downplay the Admirals is they do so by trying to present Whitebeard as some meager old man not worthy of his Yonko position, when he showed up at Marineford as the recognized WSM and still to this day carries some of the best feats in the manga.


I think it's pretty clear that Whitebeard was not the man he once was. Whether he was still the strongest man in the world or not, nobody was going to challenge him for that title. He was too well respected and you'd have to get past his entire crew just to get to him, as we saw when Shanks went to see him.

Obviously old age doesn't affect people in One Piece like it normally would - Rayleigh was still too much for the Admirals to handle, Garp would've killed Akainu himself if Sengoku hadn't stopped him and of course Linlin is nearly seventy and she's still stronger than basically anyone else in the world - but old age isn't the only issue Whitebeard had.

My memory might be hazy but I'm pretty sure even Whitebeard's own crew expressed surprise at him getting hit by attacks he would have easily avoided in the past. Whatever he was afflicted with definitely affected him, even to the point where it didn't appear as though he could use Haki without resting first.

Compared to what Kaido and Linlin have shown during the Wano arc, it's kinda difficult to believe Whitebeard was still stronger than them. Which doesn't exactly bode well for the Admirals, the strongest of whom got taken out in two hits by Whitebeard. Even Kizaru, for all his speed, got caught by Whitebeard.

Plus, yeah, a starved and until-recently-tortured Ace managing to cancel out Aokiji's Devil Fruit powers with his own really calls into question just how impressive Punk Hazard is meant to be. If Akainu is really that strong it shouldn't have taken him ten days to beat someone that clearly struggles a lot against heat-based Devil Fruit powers.

I think my assessment earlier was pretty close, that a Commander is to an Admiral what an Admiral is to an Emperor:

One Admiral will easily beat one Commander
One Admiral will usually win against two Commanders
One Admiral is more likely to lose to three Commanders
One Admiral would lose badly to an Emperor
Two Admirals would usually lose to an Emperor
Three Admirals will usually beat an Emperor

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 3


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## Duhul10 (Dec 6, 2021)

Velocity said:


> I think it's pretty clear that Whitebeard was not the man he once was. Whether he was still the strongest man in the world or not, nobody was going to challenge him for that title. He was too well respected and you'd have to get past his entire crew just to get to him, as we saw when Shanks went to see him.
> 
> Obviously old age doesn't affect people in One Piece like it normally would - Rayleigh was still too much for the Admirals to handle, Garp would've killed Akainu himself if Sengoku hadn't stopped him and of course Linlin is nearly seventy and she's still stronger than basically anyone else in the world - but old age isn't the only issue Whitebeard had.
> 
> ...


You better watch your back whenever you leave the house from now on

Reactions: Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## YellowCosmos (Dec 6, 2021)

Velocity said:


> If Akainu is really that strong it shouldn't have taken him ten days to beat someone that clearly struggles a lot against heat-based Devil Fruit powers.


Why do you use use the Ace vs Aokiji "clash" to determine whether Aokiji struggles with heat-based powers rather than the Akainu vs Aokiji clash? Also, why do you act as if Aokiji's freezing abilities aren't just as much as a threat to Ace and Akainu as their abilities are to him? Remember Prometheus was damaged by Jimbei throwing water at him and Brooke's ice powers.


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## trance (Dec 6, 2021)

akainu having an elemental advantage against aokiji is still unproven

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Velocity (Dec 6, 2021)

I honestly don't get where this idea comes from that one Admiral can take one Emperor. Sengoku was pretty clear that two Emperors teaming up would be a catastrophe of unprecedented proportions and pose a greater threat to the World Government than even Roger himself ever did. He also likened it to the second coming of the Rocks Pirates.

Even Akainu said they weren't going to interfere in Wano because they didn't have the manpower to do so, which kinda implies that the Marines currently cannot handle two Emperors at once despite having four Admirals that can apparently solo Emperors.

That might change soon with the SSG, but Sengoku reiterated what we've always known - the Shichibukai existed to bolster the Marine's manpower so that they could maintain the uneasy balance between the World Government and the Yonkou. Without the Shichibukai, the Marines are now at a considerable disadvantage against the Yonkou and that won't change until the SSG gets involved.

Reactions: Like 3 | Dislike 1


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## Velocity (Dec 6, 2021)

trance said:


> akainu having an elemental advantage against aokiji is still unproven


It's just common sense, right? Devil Fruits might be supernatural but they follow real world interactions between elements. Magma is hotter than fire, fire melts ice, magma melts ice even faster, rubber insulates against electricity... Sabo could probably turn Crocodile into a glass statue if he wanted.

So if Ace's fire powers cancel out Aokiji's ice and he's nowhere near as strong as an Admiral, then Akainu can't be all that great if it took him ten days to beat Aokiji with an even hotter Devil Fruit power.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Dec 6, 2021)

MO said:


> I once said WB was an ugly man and got like 20 disagrees. I was shocked people actually thought he looked good.


He’s ugly af aokiji shanks and ace for most handsome mihawk honorable mention


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## AmitDS (Dec 6, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> The problem with people who downplay the Admirals is they do so by trying to present Whitebeard as some meager old man not worthy of his Yonko position, when he showed up at Marineford as the recognized WSM and still to this day carries some of the best feats in the manga.
> 
> 
> 
> Like where does somebody get off writing a statement like this as though Whitebeard is some fodder that it's embarrassing for an Admiral to so much as have issues with him? What exactly do people think would have happened if Big Mom or Kaido fought Marineford Whitebeard? That they'd just brush him under the rug without breaking a sweat? The same Big Mom who ran from Marco because she claimed she didn't have souls necessary to deal with him and the same Kaido who got stalled for chapters on end by Yamato, but people think Whitebeard isn't an issue for them? The man said to have ruled the era standing at the side of the throne?


Next time quote me if you want to use my post in the thread. Weird that you'd just quote that part and attempt to critique it just like that lol

Lol where do I get off?

Who's going to check me?

*Was he or was he not having issues with old, sick WB who was having issues using his haki? Yes or no?
Did she or did she not draw with Kaido after fighting for 2 days? Yes or no?*

If you took that as me saying that WB was some fodder then that's on you because nowhere did I write or imply that he was. I did however point out the fact that he was ill and unable to use his haki properly even by pre timskip standards. Characters like Mihawk and Marco have pointed out that he was not at his peak state. I know people on here like to pretend that he was at his zenith so they can claim the admirals were at times beating down a Roger leveled opponent but sorry, that's not true.

*And context is key. I was comparing Akainu vs that weakened WB to Big Mom vs healthy Kaido. Since this is a thread about Big Mom vs Akainu, I'd presume that their feats against emperors would be relevant, especially since Akainu has no new feats or hype to rely on.*

Who said Big Mom would "brush him under a rug" though? *However pretending that Big Mom, Shanks or Kaido would not do better than sick WB who was having heart attacks and issues using basic haki, is a whole other level of coping.*


Great Potato said:


> Whitebeard fought all three Admirals and didn't get the upper hand on any of them in direct confrontation. Aokiji avoided his haki infused bisento stab and was about to counter-attack when Jozu stepped in and took over. Kizaru dodged his attack and sent some lasers through his torso for the trouble. Akainu clash ended with Whitebeard having a heart attack and his chest pumped with magma. Newgate only got damage in when he snuck Akainu from behind and he lost a big chunk of his head for the effort, but with recent feats it's laughable to think Kaido or Big Mom would have come out clean on the receiving end of those bloodlusted quakes when we've seen them screaming in agony and bleeding from the face from much less.


Big Mom and Kaido have way more durable bodies and aren't having issues using haki so uh ya they would actually have likely come out clean on the receiving end of those attacks. You think any of those attacks are going to K.O. Big Mom and Kaido while they do nothing? Oh yeah let's pretend that they wouldn't land any attacks on the admirals if they fight, use their devil fruits to the fullest or AdCoC which the admirals aren't officially even shown/stated as having. lol

Big Mom was a great pirate competing with Prime WB along with Shiki and Roger himself yet people seem to think MF WB and the pre time skip admirals' attacks are so beyond her because they were 'bloodlusted' lmao! 

On topic. Akainu has no feats or hype that put him above a healthy emperor who can actually use their DF & haki, including advanced conqueror's, at least not yet.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## trance (Dec 6, 2021)

Velocity said:


> It's just common sense, right? Devil Fruits might be supernatural but they follow real world interactions between elements. Magma is hotter than fire, fire melts ice, magma melts ice even faster, rubber insulates against electricity... Sabo could probably turn Crocodile into a glass statue if he wanted.
> 
> So if Ace's fire powers cancel out Aokiji's ice and he's nowhere near as strong as an Admiral, then Akainu can't be all that great if it took him ten days to beat Aokiji with an even hotter Devil Fruit power.


fire can burn hotter than magma

my headcanon is that even tho fire technically can burn hotter, that doesn't really mean much to magma; i mean, what's it gonna do, melt magma even more?

meanwhile, magma can smother fire, cutting off its oxygen supply and rendering it well, not fire


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## A Optimistic (Dec 6, 2021)

This thread is juicy.


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## Great Potato (Dec 6, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Next time quote me if you want to use my post in the thread. Weird that you'd just quote that part and attempt to critique it just like that lol
> 
> Lol where do I get off?
> 
> ...



You wrote a lot without actually addressing the point of my post.

You were trying to downplay Akainu by saying that he had issues with Whitebeard and trying to use that as a negative against him, which comes with the clear implication that Big Mom and Kaido would not have also had issues with Whitebeard had they been in his shoes, something we know is false as they have had issues with much weaker characters than him. 

So perhaps instead of dancing around the point, maybe address how they would have handled Whitebeard in his shoes?



AmitDS said:


> Big Mom and Kaido have way more durable bodies and aren't having issues using haki so uh ya they would actually have likely come out clean on the receiving end of those attacks.



Gura Gura no Mi has the hype of being the most destructive DF in the entire series and the feats to back up that claim. It is the fruit that propelled Blackbeard to being an Emperor and endgame boss of the Pirates. The blow that struck Akainu decimated the island along with it. Big Mom and Kaido have been screaming and taking damage from far weaker attacks throughout the arc, they are not taking those hits clean.



AmitDS said:


> You think any of those attacks are going to K.O. Big Mom and Kaido while they do nothing? Oh yeah let's pretend that they wouldn't land any attacks on the admirals if they fight, use their devil fruits to the fullest or AdCoC which the admirals aren't officially even shown/stated as having. lol



I never claimed any of this, but nice strawmen.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Useful 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 6, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> You wrote a lot without actually addressing the point of my post.


Meanwhile you initially went off on some tangent because you had an issue with me mentioning  the fact that Akainu was struggling with sick WB who couldn't use haki and comparing it to Big Mom stalemating prime Kaido... aaaand that he has no updated feats to help him. Lol!


Great Potato said:


> You were trying to downplay Akainu by saying that he had issues with Whitebeard and trying to use that as a negative against him, which comes with the clear implication that Big Mom and Kaido would not have also had issues with Whitebeard had they been in his shoes, something we know is false as they have had issues with much weaker characters than him.


Um no I'm pointing out that he doesn't have feats on the level of Big Mom did when she fought Kaido hence people claiming there is proof that he surely wins are talking based on headcanons and expectations about the future.

If all you have to go on feat wise is him facing a weaker opponent than the 1 Big Mom tied with, and he notably struggled there, then you don't really have feats for him yet. I'm not denying that he got stronger but idk since when expectations that may or may not come true are used as concrete evidence on this site.


Great Potato said:


> So perhaps instead of dancing around the point, maybe address how they would have handled Whitebeard in his shoes?


Um they would have beaten him. Duh.

 Did I not make my stance abundantly clear when I said they were stronger than old, sick, haki issues having, Whitebeard? 


Great Potato said:


> Gura Gura no Mi has the hype of being the most destructive DF in the entire series and the feats to back up that claim. It is the fruit that propelled Blackbeard to being an Emperor and endgame boss of the Pirates. The blow that struck Akainu decimated the island along with it. Big Mom and Kaido have been screaming and taking damage from far weaker attacks throughout the arc, they are not taking those hits clean.


Screaming and taking damaging without armament and in Big Mom's case Law and Kidd's moves together is the first major blow to her for the entire raid lol.  And last time I checked Akainu doesn't have their durability so actually whatever damage he took (as seen with his bloody face etc) Big Mom or Kaido would logically take less.

I was also referring to attacks from the admirals as well btw which yeah they likely would have been able to tank. Big Mom was not getting her head melted with lava like sick, old WB.

And we don't actually know if they can't 'take it clean' in terms of WB's attack, since they are stronger than that version of WB, have their insane durability and in theory can use armament haki to supplement their defenses if need be. You have no evidence that the blow that 'decimated the island' would scale as high post time skip now that we've seen stuff like hakai etc. After all, it hit Akainu and he wasn't down and out.

Regardless, they'd sure as hell come out better than Akainu did since they have the physicals, haki mastery and are on a superior power level to that version of WB in the first place.




Great Potato said:


> I never claimed any of this, but nice strawmen.


Well I was asking, hence the '?' so I didn't actually say or imply that you claimed that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Lewd 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Gokou08 (Dec 6, 2021)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Magma, the element that melts everything it touches except god tier Curiel and WB fodders
> 
> And Kid has yet to take an Ikoku directly lol. Even MC luffy jesus dodges anytime the attack comes his way.


Except it took WB's head and Aokiji's Leg, what is the excuse for Aokiji?


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## Great Potato (Dec 6, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Um they would have beaten him. Duh.



Right, so they just beat Whitebeard without issue?

I'm not sure what all your faux outrage was about if you were just going to prove my point about you.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 6, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> Right, so they just beat Whitebeard without issue?


Did I say that? Talk about strawman. They weren't going to be pushed to extreme diff though since they are stronger than Sick, haki issues WB with heart attacks raging nor were they going to struggle as much as pre time skip Akainu, judging from the emperors' portrayal. 


Great Potato said:


> I'm not sure what all your faux outrage was about if you were just going to prove my point about you.


That's rich coming from you. IIRC this started because of your own faux outrage about me pointing out the fact that Akainu was struggling vs a weaker opponent that the guy Big Mom stalemated. You couldn't even quote me. lol. 

As I said Akainu has no feats 1 vs 1 against an opponent on par or above Kaido, who Big Mom tied with.  When he gets them then I'll reconsider. Big Mom would push prime WB to extreme diff so...

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Daisuke Jigen (Dec 6, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Big Mom would push prime WB to extreme diff

Reactions: Funny 7 | Tier Specialist 5


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## Fel1x (Dec 6, 2021)

BM high-extreme diff
the poll is so wrong
its more than obvious that she is stronger



trance said:


> akainu having an elemental advantage against aokiji is still unproven


yeah. ice can freeze magma. naturally
yeah

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 6, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 1 | Lewd 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## trance (Dec 6, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> yeah. ice can freeze magma. naturally
> yeah


close

it can cool down and solidify the magma

obviously that requires a metric fuckton of ice but luckily, aokiji is a walking ice age

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fel1x (Dec 6, 2021)

trance said:


> close
> 
> it can cool down and solidify the magma
> 
> obviously that requires a metric fuckton of ice but luckily, aokiji is a walking ice age


well, I guess this fight lasted this long because Akainu was completely frozen for days
Aokiji even managed to do some marine duty while Akainu was frozen


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## trance (Dec 6, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> well, I guess this fight lasted this long because Akainu was completely frozen for days
> Aokiji even managed to do some marine duty while Akainu was frozen


their fight lasted so long because they're perfect counters to each other

-ice cools down magma which akainu can then melt and re-integrate it back into his arsenal
-magma melts ice which aokiji can then refreeze and re-integrate back into his arsenal

Reactions: Winner 2


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 6, 2021)

Laisuke Ligen in people's DM's  

Imagine still negging people in 2021. Couldn't be me

Reactions: Funny 3 | Lewd 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## VileNotice (Dec 6, 2021)

trance said:


> their fight lasted so long because they're perfect counters to each other
> 
> -ice cools down magma which akainu can then melt and re-integrate it back into his arsenal
> -magma melts ice which aokiji can then refreeze and re-integrate back into his arsenal


This. If Aokiji was able to survive a DF disadvantage against another top tier for 10 days he’s like the strongest in the verse, that’s clearly not what Oda was going for


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## AmitDS (Dec 6, 2021)

If only you guys kept the same energy you have for other characters, for you favs. lol feats and hype anyone? Akainu isn't even confirmed comparable to prime Sengoku and Garp while he's touted as beyond Big Mom who was a rival to Roger, Shiki & WB, by the fandom. His best feat involved struggling vs a sick, haki less (for the most part) WB and extreme diffing Aokiji pre time skip off panel while Big Mom stalemated Kaido on and off panel which also shows parity between her and Shanks who seemingly did the same. 

Extreme diffing Aokiji pre time skip; struggling with sick WB with haki problems; being _expected_ to be stronger than Big Mom by fans in the _future _are not beyond stalemating Kaido in his prime for days & actually showing AdCoC after already competing with prime Roger, Shiki, WB, Kaido, Shanks and Blackbeard for 20+ years.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 6, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> If only you guys kept the same energy you have for other characters, for you favs. lol feats and hype anyone? Akainu isn't even confirmed comparable to prime Sengoku and Garp while he's touted as beyond Big Mom who was a rival to Roger, Shiki & WB, by the fandom. His best feat involved struggling vs a sick, haki less (for the most part) WB and extreme diffing Aokiji pre time skip off panel while Big Mom stalemated Kaido on and off panel which also shows parity between her and Shanks who seemingly did the same.
> 
> Extreme diffing Aokiji pre time skip; struggling with sick WB with haki problems; being _expected_ to be stronger than Big Mom by fans in the _future _are not beyond stalemating Kaido in his prime for days & actually showing AdCoC after already competing with prime Roger, Shiki, WB, Kaido, Shanks and Blackbeard for 20+ years.



It's mostly a Linlin hate boner. Put Kaido here, her equal, and they say Kaido wins lol.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 6, 2021)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> It's mostly a Linlin hate boner. Put Kaido here, her equal, and they say Kaido wins lol.


Mommy issues methinks.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fel1x (Dec 6, 2021)

yeah, I can see some weird issues with people who trend to shit on BM
yes, Kaido is canonically strongest pirate right now. also it is clear for me that he is => Roger. also he is => BM. but they are all close as fuck. which means BM is comparable to Roger who even feared to cross paths with her

now cry or tier specialist me.


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## Great Potato (Dec 6, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Did I say that? Talk about strawman. They weren't going to be pushed to extreme diff though since they are stronger than Sick, haki issues WB with heart attacks raging nor were they going to struggle as much as pre time skip Akainu, judging from the emperors' portrayal.



I asked for clarification and have been given vague responses while still continuing to allude that Akainu struggling with Whitebeard is a negative feat that denotes inferiority to Big Mom.

Akainu starts fighting Whitebeard head on in chapter 567 and the fight ends in chapter 568 with Whitebeard getting his chest pumped full of magma while Akainu is perfectly fine. What is the mark against him there? None of Whitebeard's brief head on clashes with the Admirals ended in his favor there. The only time he lays the damage on them is when he sneaks Akainu from behind and he suffered a fatal wound in the process.



AmitDS said:


> If only you guys kept the same energy you have for other characters, for you favs. lol feats and hype anyone? Akainu isn't even confirmed comparable to prime Sengoku and Garp while he's touted as beyond Big Mom who was a rival to Roger, Shiki & WB, by the fandom. His best feat involved struggling vs a sick, haki less (for the most part) WB and extreme diffing Aokiji pre time skip off panel while Big Mom stalemated Kaido on and off panel which also shows parity between her and Shanks who seemingly did the same.
> 
> Extreme diffing Aokiji pre time skip; struggling with sick WB with haki problems; being _expected_ to be stronger than Big Mom by fans in the _future _are not beyond stalemating Kaido in his prime for days & actually showing AdCoC after already competing with prime Roger, Shiki, WB, Kaido, Shanks and Blackbeard for 20+ years.



How you going to talk about hype while you've been in this thread treating Whitebeard like some scrub? Everyone put him on a pedestal including Big Mom. Sengoku who was a staple of that era considered him the strongest till his dying days, Garp who was another staple called him the ruler of the seas, Doflamingo who is Kaido's business partner told how Whitebeard ruled by the throne till the end, and the WSS Mihawk recognized Whitebeard as greater than himself. Yet you dogging on Akainu for _having issues with Whitebeard_ when he actually gave a very respectable showing against him and even ended on top in their head on encounter.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Fel1x (Dec 6, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> Yet you dogging on Akainu for _having issues with Whitebeard_ when he actually gave a very respectable showing against him and even ended on top in their head on encounter.

Reactions: Funny 4 | Tier Specialist 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 6, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> I asked for clarification and have been given vague responses while still continuing to allude *that Akainu struggling with Whitebeard is a negative feat that denotes inferiority to Big Mom.*


It does_ feat wise_ since that version of WB is inferior to Big Mom, Kaido & Shanks at full power and *Big Mom stalemated prime Kaido.* WB couldn't even use haki properly and had heart attacks while giving Akainu issues. I gave you your clarification. Maybe look up what 'vague' means.




If you guys are saying that Akainu will beat Big Mom then give the feats/hype to prove this claim. Not what you think Akainu will be revealed to be EOS and who you think he will fight. If this is current Akainu and current Big Mom, currently what does he have?
Are his feats vs a weaker person than Big Mom pre time skip (weakened WB) & fighting evenly with Aokiji before he scrapes a win, enough to say he would beat Big Mom who stalemated prime Kaido who in turn seemingly clashed evenly with Shanks?


Great Potato said:


> Akainu starts fighting Whitebeard head on in chapter 567 and the fight ends in chapter 568 with Whitebeard getting his chest pumped full of magma while Akainu is perfectly fine. What is the mark against him there? None of Whitebeard's brief head on clashes with the Admirals ended in his favor there. The only time he lays the damage on them is when he sneaks Akainu from behind and he suffered a fatal wound in the process.


And Big Mom is above that version of WB so...


Great Potato said:


> How you going to talk about hype while you've been in this thread treating Whitebeard like some scrub?


No. You just need this to be the case to push your agenda. Being below prime Kaido and Big Mom isn't characteristic of a scrub. It's a simple fact that Sick WB < Normal WB.


Great Potato said:


> Everyone put him on a pedestal including Big Mom. Sengoku who was a staple of that era considered him the strongest till his dying days, Garp who was another staple called him the ruler of the seas, Doflamingo who is Kaido's business partner told how Whitebeard ruled by the throne till the end, and the WSS Mihawk recognized Whitebeard as greater than himself. Yet you dogging on Akainu for _having issues with Whitebeard_ when he actually gave a very respectable showing against him and even ended on top in their head on encounter.


Whitebeard was weakened from his peak state. It's not a secret. Mihawk even said that the distance between WB and himself shrunk and Marco and Crocodile pointed out that this was not him as his best. Garp and everyone else was referring to a healthy WB, clearly.

You're the one taking offense because I said Prime Kaido/Big Mom > Sick WB hence Akainu having issues with him is not as good as Big Mom stalemating Kaido. I have no idea why you're taking this so personally or as such an insult i.e. that Whitebeard was weakened and weaker than Shanks/Big Mom/Kaido at Marineford.

"OMG YOU'RE TREATING WB LIKE A SCRUB! YOU'RE DOGGING AKAINU!" 
Please spare me. 


The fact that Big Mom and Shiki could rival Roger/WB and characterize the power balance of the new world along with Roger and WB 20+ years ago is already enough to know that Big Mom would challenge even Prime WB who is beyond what Akainu struggled with in Marineford so if this is a question of feats & hype, Akainu _right now _does not have the feats for anyone to claim he surely beats any of the emperors and surely no hype.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 6, 2021)

BM mid diffs him. She'll laugh off the magma while he can't get into CQC.

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## TheWiggian (Dec 7, 2021)

Can't laugh off Nami or Chopper

> Will laugh off Sakazuki's powers 

_~YonkoSet~_

Reactions: Funny 7 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Mihawk (Dec 7, 2021)

Guys really think Roger or Primebeard would get BFR’d by Nico Robin and Jinbei, let alone Kidd and Law 

“Feats” and hype

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 5 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Also if there's anyone who's geriatric it's Big Mom. She's the one who slept with a million dudes and is pushing 70 soon.


What does her sleeping with her husbands have to do with her being old?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> What does her sleeping with her husbands have to do with her being old?



It’s the mileage along with the age

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> It’s the mileage along with the age


Do men have this issue too or???


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

People really think they don't need to provide feats or hype for a character they like or think is badass. 

Struggling with sick, Haki issues WB or matching Aokiji pre time skip, would never be enough on its own to prove that someone beats Big Mom, Kaido or Shanks. Big Mom's feat vs Kaido > Akainu's vs sick WB.

Having no hype outside of fans' expectations for the future would never outclass current and past hype of being on the level of Prime WB, Roger, Shiki & still competing with Kaido, BB & Shanks, especially in discussion set in the present. Heck are people even sure he's going to be beyond Kaido, Big Mom or Shanks in the future because if it's just on par or he's not there rn... 

People make fun of hype yet they have none  

People ignore feats but they have inferior ones from pre time skip

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mihawk (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Do men have this issue too or???


Akainu didn’t sleep with 85 women. Last I checked he’s also not capable of giving birth to giant humans 


AmitDS said:


> People really think they don't need to provide feats or hype for a character they like or think is badass.
> 
> Struggling with sick, Haki issues WB or matching Aokiji pre time skip, would never be enough on its own to prove that someone beats Big Mom, Kaido or Shanks. Big Mom's feat vs Kaido > Akainu's vs sick WB.
> 
> ...


Wait by “people” you mean me?   if so I’d be happy to address your very initial post


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Akainu didn’t sleep with 85 women. Last I checked he’s also not capable of giving birth to giant humans


I didn't ask about Akainu. I asked if this would be an issue for a man seeing as how you brought up her sex life.


Mihawk said:


> Wait by “people” you mean me?   if so I’d be happy to address your very initial post


Depends. Was this directed at me or???


Mihawk said:


> Guys really think Roger or Primebeard would get BFR’d by Nico Robin and Jinbei, let alone Kidd and Law
> 
> “Feats” and hype


And address what?

Akainu struggled with sick, Haki issues WB who was deteriorating in real time. 

Base Big Mom tied with Prime Kaido without Prometheus, Zeus or Hera. 

Big Mom is hyped to be on Shanks, Kaido & healthy WB's level while she was competing with Shiki, Roger and WB in their prime.

Rn Akainu isn't confirmed to be on par with prime Sengoku.

Maybe in the future... idk.

Inb4 her gag feats are used in place of her actual 1 vs 1  oh wait I think I'm too late.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (Dec 7, 2021)

> I didn't ask about Akainu. I asked if this would be an issue for a man seeing as how you brought up her sex life.


I wasn’t talking about women. I was talking about Big Mom in particular. When did this turn into a gender debate? I was talking about BM and hence I brought up Akainu, since this thread is about these 2


AmitDS said:


> Depends. Was this directed at me or???


I was going off of what Daisuke said. Didn’t read the whole thread until now, but directed to those who view her as an equal to Roger and Prime WB


AmitDS said:


> And address what?



I was talking about this



> Big Mom stalemated a healthy emperor over the course of 2 days while Akainu was having issues with a sick, somewhat haki less emperor and has not been given hype/feats above Big Mom or any healthy/full powered emperor, at least not yet, so where do people get the idea that current Akainu beats her especially with less than extreme diff?
> Also, Law's awakening specifically allowed him to bypass Big Mom's defenses and Kidd's was as effective as it was due to him being surrounded by many steel girders and it took a combined effort from those guys to hurt her as much as they did and she still was not badly wounded and was ready to fight immediately after.
> 
> Them hurting her more than Kaido did over the course of 2 days isn't a knock against Big Mom but a feat for them and their DF/DF mastery. There's no evidence that Akainu's magma even with his awakening can allow him to easily overpower her, especially given that she can in theory, just make magma homies to counter and she can bolster her durability (one of the best in the series) with top tier armament (also likely 1 of the best in the series).


I mean you’re bringing up how them hurting her more than Kaido did isn’t a knock against Big Mom and a favour for Kidd/Law while talking about on panel feats...let’s ignore the feats then since they go both ways. Does this mean Kidd/Law have more offensive output and damage capability than Kaido? Is that the logic we should use based on feats?

again, so Kidd was able to overpower Big Mom momentarily while He and Law can BFR her after Law also dealt damage to Kaido...yet Akainu will have trouble replicating similar feats if not outright surpass them? Let’s really evaluate the validity of such a thinking process.

As for sick Hakiless WB, I think GP already said what was needed to be said; but let’s take into the account the “issues” Akainu had against WB...I mean, he easily stalemated that version of Whitebeard and even dealt with serious blows when the heart attacks came in. Now, we all acknowledge that WB was able to take down Akainu in a bloodlusted state when given the same opening, but let’s also not forget that Akainu took off half his head, effectively ending any chance of recovery, while he himself was able to recover not long after his loss and continue to rampage across Marineford.

Rest of the context should tell you that the admirals had no problem fighting this version of WB in a 1 on 1 capacity, and even gained the upper hand on him at times, as evidenced by his colleagues Aokiji and Kizaru’s interactions with him. He couldn’t touch them, and it took Jozu’s interference for Whitebeard to move on ahead from Kuzan.

And I don’t claim Akainu beats her with less than extreme diff btw. To me it’s a fight going either way especially after the timeskip. Akainu has the hype as the new Fleet Admiral leading the strongest version of the Navy in the history of the verse, and one of the series’ final villains. That’s his hype.

You bring up Law and Kidd’s DF mastery while noting that their abilities allow them to specifically bypass Big Mom’s durability...while ignoring that:

1) Big Mom admitted she hasn’t been pushed like this in a very long time, meaning that she hasn’t had a fight to this extent for a long time; 

2) Akainu is way above the weight class of what either Law and Kidd can swing at. His DF mastery should be above theirs considering he has decades of experience over them, and has shown the ability to negate attacks from numerous high level commanders including Marco. Furthermore, Aokiji’s own DF mastery and ability to avoid attacks from another Yonko is basically evidence of this.


You can bring up Kaido and BM stalemating each other, but it wasn’t a fight to the death with extreme stakes involved. There is no “evidence” that the former went Hybrid form while the latter powered up in her current form. It was akin to a more prolonged version of what happened between Whitebeard and Shanks. Even if it was, feats and hype shouldn’t tell you that it should be directly compared to Akainu vs WB as they are completely different situations. Otherwise I can simply bring up that Kaido failing to hurt Big Mom while the Supernovas succeeded. Best to accept they are all different...

As for the gag feats...well, Akainu has none of them to this point so even if you don’t give more points in his favour, at least it doesn’t take away from him at all or allow people to do the same as they can for Big Mom. Facing a “sick old” Whitebeard in single combat in isolated situations aren’t gag feats either.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> People really think they don't need to provide feats or hype for a character they like or think is badass.
> 
> Struggling with sick, Haki issues WB or matching Aokiji pre time skip, would never be enough on its own to prove that someone beats Big Mom, Kaido or Shanks. Big Mom's feat vs Kaido > Akainu's vs sick WB.
> 
> ...


We know from Law that the Emperors competed with WB for territory. Seemingly, they didn't go down in two hits like Sakazuki. Kaido compared Shanks to a Prime version of Roger and WB. Roger avoided a fight with BM. Roger after coming out of God Valley was just a Great Pirate like the Yonko. WB didn't want to go to war with Kaido, despite being in far better condition than at MF.

Like how is this a discussion? We saw with Luffy vs Katakuri how important haki is. WB seemed to have future sight as he avoided attacks in his sleep with Ace but at MF couldn't do it awake. He also didn't seem to be able to use CotC, which means no advanced CotC attacks. The attack that put Akainu down was replicated casually by Teach, as soon as he got the fruit. Still Teach refers to the 'dreaded monster Kaido', years after mastering the fruit. Shanks came there and shut down the war completely.

By portrayal and feats, there is no way Akainu has a chance against Shanks, Kaido or BM.

Like you said, the most they have is their own fantasies about how EoS will play out. I really want to see the tears when Sabo cracks Akainu's skull while telling Luffy to move on and face the Gorosei

Reactions: Like 3 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 2


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 7, 2021)

I had a bad dream and had to come back into this thread and spread a few more tier specialists. Back to sleep now

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Velocity (Dec 7, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> Like you said, the most they have is their own fantasies about how EoS will play out. I really want to see the tears when Sabo cracks Akainu's skull while telling Luffy to move on and face the Gorosei


Nah, we've already seen how Luffy vs Akainu is going to go down.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Dislike 2


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## Lmao (Dec 7, 2021)

MO said:


> and Oda really told the biggest lie when he said Akainu was the most handsome man in one piece.


Oda knows what's up 







MO said:


> I once said WB was an ugly man and got like 20 disagrees. I was shocked people actually thought he looked good.





AmitDS said:


> With his Jay Leno, Crimson Chin looking ass.




Here's a hearty disagree for both of you

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Velocity (Dec 7, 2021)

Lmao said:


> Here's a hearty disagree for both of you


I like how they call him Whitebeard despite not having a beard.


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## Captain Altintop (Dec 7, 2021)

@RossellaFiamingo is 10x worse than @YonkoDrippy  ... Drippy at least doesn't exagerrate and he's not as bad as other people might think here... While Rossella saying Yonko can mid-diff Admirals Definitely worth of ignoring such people with that delusional thoughts without any form of argumentation.

It's like when I say that Admirals could mid-diff Yonko, but that would be also a delusional post and blame myself with that shit.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## mmzrmx (Dec 7, 2021)

Akainu, He'll be one of the last fights for luffy while big Meme is going to get beaten by 2 side characters(although they are strong/have a lot of potential).  Akainu is tenacious, and he's shown to be an incredible damage soak. I mean he came back from white beards crazy quake punch, it's not like he was Ko'd or anything. He'll have no problem hurting big mom, and big mom has shown that she gets hit pretty often..she's just really durable but akainu has crazy offensive power. 

He might have been weaker than her pre skip but I have no doubt that he's stronger than her now.  The big meme apologists will be out in full force when Kid and Law mess her up.


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## Zed Ecks (Dec 7, 2021)

Velocity said:


> I like how they call him Whitebeard despite not having a beard.


It's a language thing, Japanese doesn't have a word specificaly for beard, it's all facial hair, more or less.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> I wasn’t talking about women. I was talking about Big Mom in particular. When did this turn into a gender debate? I was talking about BM and hence I brought up Akainu, since this thread is about these 2


It's a yes or no answer. If you think it's a gender debate then maybe you think you said something bad, idk. I didn't say you were a sexist, incel or something so...

Btw all you had to say was _"Yes if it's a man with 43 wives, I would also say they have mileage on them contributing to their geriatric state." _


Mihawk said:


> I was going off of what Daisuke said. Didn’t read the whole thread until now, but directed to those who view her as an equal to Roger and Prime WB


Well she is as close as any pirate has been to prime Roger and WB, along with Shiki so...


Mihawk said:


> I was talking about this
> 
> 
> I mean you’re bringing up how them hurting her more than Kaido did isn’t a knock against Big Mom and a favour for Kidd/Law while talking about on panel feats...let’s ignore the feats then since they go both ways. Does this mean Kidd/Law have more offensive output and damage capability than Kaido? Is that the logic we should use based on feats?


No it means their DF and DF mastery were amazing and perfectly suited to hurt her in addition to being powerful since, as I said Law could bypass her defenses and with the proper set up Kidd could do all that damage. And the fact that it did more damage that Kaido, proves this.  So to my point, it's a feat for them and not a knock against Big Mom since it indeed was more than what Kaido seemingly did in the 2 days by Big Mom's own admission. They are after all, people Big Mom considers strong and worth her time like Luffy.

If the argument is that Kidd and Law damaged her so she's weak & Akainu would do worse, then I am just pointing out that the fact that:

-She is Big Mom the emperor means that Kidd and Law's feat that hurt her more than even Kaido did is good

-The fact that it's arguably better than Kaido's vs her means that Akainu can't automatically be wanked for potentially doing better then those 2

-Those abilities, which didn't beat her, were a great match up in the particular setting to do what they did to her.

Kaido puts a wrench in the 'Kidd and Law hurt her so Akainu does way better against her' headcanon since he's beyond Kid and Law individually at least.


It's better than the logic of Akainu surely beats Big Mom because of twisting sick, hakiless WB into the strongest character lol


Mihawk said:


> again, so Kidd was able to overpower Big Mom momentarily while He and Law can BFR her after Law also dealt damage to Kaido...yet Akainu will have trouble replicating similar feats if not outright surpass them? Let’s really evaluate the validity of such a thinking process.


And AGAIN, their abilities were specifically suited for hurting her and it took their combined effort. Akainu's magma isn't specifically designed to bypass her defenses and doesn't involved tonnes and tonnes of steal girders crashing into her simultaneously while she fails to use armament.

Akainu was taking significant damage from a tired, sick, haki issues having WB deteriorating in real time but Big Mom at full power would have trouble replicating similar feats if not outright surpassing them? Let's really evaluate the validity of such a thinking process. lol

Significantly weakened emperor gives Akainu trouble
Akainu has no new feats or hype yet
Full powered, healthy emperor loses to him for sure.
Yeah right.


Mihawk said:


> As for sick Hakiless WB, I think GP already said what was needed to be said; but let’s take into the account the “issues” Akainu had against WB...I mean, he easily stalemated that version of Whitebeard and even dealt with serious blows when the heart attacks came in. Now, we all acknowledge that WB was able to take down Akainu in a bloodlusted state when given the same opening, but let’s also not forget that Akainu took off half his head, effectively ending any chance of recovery, while he himself was able to recover not long after his loss and continue to rampage across Marineford.


Yeah a weakened WB did all that without use of armament, observation, AdCoC yet a full powered Big Mom who in base already greatly outclasses even Prime WB & Shanks natural durability would surely lose to Akainu. Lol! Said Big Mom who just stalemated the guy called strongest pirate on the planet and was already a great, powerful pirate and rival to WB & Roger in their prime along with Shiki.


Mihawk said:


> Rest of the context should tell you that the admirals had no problem fighting this version of WB in a 1 on 1 capacity, and even gained the upper hand on him at times, as evidenced by his colleagues Aokiji and Kizaru’s interactions with him. He couldn’t touch them, and it took Jozu’s interference for Whitebeard to move on ahead from Kuzan.


Had no problem? The fact that a sick old man who was injured and had experienced a heart attacks was even injuring Akainu as well as he was just by being angry is enough to tell you that this version of Akainu was not shown to be enough to beat an emperor in their prime. And as I said when Akainu has feats, like everyone else is expected to have then him beating her, which is the point I was addressing, can be considered guaranteed.


Mihawk said:


> And I don’t claim Akainu beats her with less than extreme diff btw. To me it’s a fight going either way especially after the timeskip. Akainu has the hype as the new Fleet Admiral leading the strongest version of the Navy in the history of the verse, and one of the series’ final villains. That’s his hype.


His position was attained through fighting evenly with another ADMIRAL so there is no evidence that he himself got a substantial power up by becoming FA like how one can presume an admiral or an emperor are stronger than other people due to their title.


Mihawk said:


> You bring up Law and Kidd’s DF mastery while noting that their abilities allow them to specifically bypass Big Mom’s durability...while ignoring that:
> 
> 1) Big Mom admitted she hasn’t been pushed like this in a very long time, meaning that she hasn’t had a fight to this extent for a long time;


No she admitted that she hasn't been injured like that in a long time. And she just fought Kaido without Prometheus and Zeus for 2 days. Again someone beyond old, sick, haki suffering WB.


Mihawk said:


> 2) Akainu is way above the weight class of what either Law and Kidd can swing at. His DF mastery should be above theirs considering he has decades of experience over them, and has shown the ability to negate attacks from numerous high level commanders including Marco. Furthermore, Aokiji’s own DF mastery and ability to avoid attacks from another Yonko is basically evidence of this.


Well actually the fact that they can trouble an emperor actually implies that Law and Kidd can give Akainu issues since as I said he has no feat or hype placing him above Big Mom, Shanks or Kaido rn. So long as their awakenings function similarly to how they did vs Big Mom/ his logia state doesn't result in a different, outcome. Either way it doesn't prove that he would beat Big Mom, even if their awakenings that bypassed her body's natural hardness, does less damage to his logia body. There you go again with the Big Mom underrating, even though the narrative is hyping her as an emperor defending her throne from 2 strong pirates of Luffy's gen.

*Big Mom or any emperor don't have to prove their level. Someone doing well against them means that those people are strong, not the reverse. How does that even work? *

And speaking of DF mastery, Big Mom is an emperor who had her DF for over 60 years. And unlike Akainu she fought a healthy, prime emperor for 2 days or so and came out looking just fine.


Mihawk said:


> You can bring up Kaido and BM stalemating each other, but it wasn’t a fight to the death with extreme stakes involved. There is no “evidence” that the former went Hybrid form while the latter powered up in her current form. It was akin to a more prolonged version of what happened between Whitebeard and Shanks. Even if it was, feats and hype shouldn’t tell you that it should be directly compared to Akainu vs WB as they are completely different situations. Otherwise I can simply bring up that Kaido failing to hurt Big Mom while the Supernovas succeeded. Best to accept they are all different...


*Nice try. Kaido tried to kill her and whether he went hybrid form or not it's irrelevant since neither Akainu nor WB used their awakenings either lol so my comparison would stand.*

& Big Mom talking about Kidd and Law hurting her more than she's been hurt in decades resulting in her devouring a year of her lifespan would imply that she failed to do this vs Kaido.

And actually the fact that Big Mom didn't have Prometheus and Zeus actually does mean we have proof she didn't go all out since her 'Masters of the Land of Souls' form was unusable and that's the form she took to keep up with Hybrid Kaido and pull off Hakai.

Yeah totally different situations. A weakened emperor who wasn't using haki much, was suffering from heart attacks etc and wasn't using his awakening being compared to 2 prime emperors in their base forms, at least, with no haki issues. Big Mom's opponent (Kaido) was stronger.


Mihawk said:


> As for the gag feats...well, Akainu has none of them to this point so even if you don’t give more points in his favour, at least it doesn’t take away from him at all or allow people to do the same as they can for Big Mom. Facing a “sick old” Whitebeard in single combat in isolated situations aren’t gag feats either.


Shame. Maybe if he had some gag feats we could ignore sick, haki less, non awakened DF, WB doing as much damage as he did and his only other fight being an extreme diff (nearly a tie) with Aokiji who may or may not have had a DF disadvantage.
And well facing prime Kaido trying to kill her for 2 days without losing, is hardly a gag feat either so...

When Akainu has feats or hype that allows him to be seen as above Big Mom i.e. the point I was addressing (Akainu surely winning even below extreme diff), then he can be considered as capable of such.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShadoLord (Dec 7, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> who the... is downplaying akainu? hes the most wanked character aside from zoro.


Wanked for good reasons

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Gokou08 (Dec 7, 2021)

Zoro said:


> Wanked for good reasons


Akainu the most wanked character?? 
I don't think so, it's the opposite. 

All i see is people mentioning how Akainu lost to a "fragile" Old Man without Haki.


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## ShadoLord (Dec 7, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> Akainu the most wanked character??
> I don't think so, it's the opposite.
> 
> All i see is people mentioning how Akainu lost to a "fragile" Old Man without Haki.


They’re retarded, its okay bro. As long as we know who is the only one to end Whitebeard’s reign, something Shanks, Kaido, and Fat Meme failed to do for dozens of years.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

I love how bringing up Akainu struggling with a sick, haki issues having, WB while Big Mom stalemated Prime Kaido without Zeus/Prometheus, has people actually stumped. Dies*

Reactions: Like 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Zoro said:


> They’re retarded, its okay bro. As long as we know who is the only one to end Whitebeard’s reign, something Shanks, Kaido, and Fat Meme failed to do for dozens of years.


You mean Blackbeard?


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## ShadoLord (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> You mean Blackbeard?


He was among the dozens of gunshot wounds and sword wounds, yes.

Akainu - 80% 
Kizaru - 10% 
Cannonball, gunshot, sword wounds - 10%


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Zoro said:


> He was among the dozens of gunshot wounds and sword wounds, yes.
> 
> Akainu - 80%
> Kizaru - 10%
> Cannonball, gunshot, sword wounds - 10%


Well I just remember Blackbeard killing him, taking his DF, taking his territory/title as an emperor, all after he set up WB's demise at MF in the first place by handing off Ace to the government.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gokou08 (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> I love how bringing up Akainu struggling with a sick, haki issues having, WB while Big Mom stalemated Prime Kaido without Zeus/Prometheus, has people actually stumped. Dies*


WB was indeed sick, but you are implying like he was supposed to be fodder for Admirals/Yonkos. 

Those two hits that WB connected on Akainu would be as lethal to someone like BB and Shanks as it was to Akainu.


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> Akainu the most wanked character??
> I don't think so, it's the opposite.
> 
> All i see is people mentioning how Akainu lost to a "fragile" Old Man without Haki.


Well in our defense, no one said he _lost_ to the sick old man with haki issues and heart attacks... And it's not like Big Mom or any emperor is wanked, themselves, much on here.


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## ShadoLord (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Well I just remember Blackbeard killing him, taking his DF, taking his territory/title as an emperor, all after he set up WB's demise at MF in the first place by handing off Ace to the government.


Blackbeard didn’t kill him tho wtf you talking about?  

it was him reaching his limits due to his brains oozing out of his head that done him in. We saw what gunshots did, which is nothing. Wb even went out after giving a speech.


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## Gokou08 (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Well in our defense, no one said he _lost_ to the sick old man with haki issues and heart attacks... And it's not like Big Mom or any emperor is wanked, themselves, much on here.


I'm not saying you did, i just don't like people claiming Yonkos can Mid Diff Admirals, simply because a sick WB caught Akainu from behind


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> WB was indeed sick, but you are implying like he was supposed to be fodder for Admirals/Yonkos.


No I didn't. If you got that then that's on you. I just pointed out the fact that he was getting hurt and struggling vs an opponent inferior to the guy Big Mom tied with and has no newer feats for us yet. Last time I checked, all you guys on here only deal with current feats so... 


Gokou08 said:


> Those two hits that WB connected on Akainu would be as lethal to someone like BB and Shanks as it was to Akainu.


Well luckily, it isn't BB/Shanks fighting here, it's Big Mom who has greater natural durability than everyone you listed here. lol


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## MO (Dec 7, 2021)

lol at Akainu ending Whitebeards reign.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> I'm not saying you did, i just don't like people claiming Yonkos can Mid Diff Admirals, simply because a sick WB caught Akainu from behind


Well I'm the one who brought up Akainu struggling with a sick, haki issues WB while Big Mom tied with Prime Kaido, so I'm just clearing this up. 

However, since this is about Big Mom vs Akainu, I think, logically, their best feats vs emperors would and should be considered. Maybe in the future he's revealed to be above Big Mom, Kaido and Shanks but rn we don't have that proof, especially for his current form.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Zoro said:


> Blackbeard didn’t kill him tho wtf you talking about?


Didn't Blackbeard and his crew finish him off and actually kill him? 


Zoro said:


> it was him reaching his limits due to his brains oozing out of his head that done him in. We saw what gunshots did, which is nothing. Wb even went out after giving a speech.


Also, Blackbeard is the guy who masterminded the entire war and manipulated even Sengoku and Akainu so that he could steal everything from WB. Giving Akainu credit for 'ending WB's reign' and laughing at Shanks, Big Mom and Kaido is funny given that the same Shanks stopped Akainu and stopped the war.


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

MO said:


> lol at Akainu ending Whitebeards reign.


Like I said. Use their same logic against them and mention Akainu's feats vs a weakened emperor and Big Mom's vs a full powered emperor and people do not know what to do.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## ShadoLord (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Didn't Blackbeard and his crew finish him off and actually kill him?
> 
> Also, Blackbeard is the guy who masterminded the entire war and manipulated even Sengoku and Akainu so that he could steal everything from WB. Giving Akainu credit for 'ending WB's reign' and laughing at Shanks, Big Mom and Kaido is funny given that the same Shanks stopped Akainu and stopped the war.


Well no. Whitebeard succumbs to his fatal head injury after saying One Piece is real. All Blackbeard did was adding to the gunshot count according to the narrator.

definitely gotta give Blackbeard credit for playing the whitebeard pirates like a fiddle and having the Marines stomp them out of the competition.

it required Shanks and his whole crew to scare off Blackbeard, but my boy Akainu did this by his lonesome self.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## ShadoLord (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Like I said. Use their same logic against them and mention Akainu's feats vs a weakened emperor and Big Mom's vs a full powered emperor and people do not know what to do.


Whitebeard is stronger than Shanks, Kaido, and Big Meme.

when you get Oda to say in his sbs that he lied about the WSM Wb, I’d gladly change positions. Until then, work hard on exposing Oda! You can do it my boi!

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Gokou08 (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Well I'm the one who brought up Akainu struggling with a sick, haki issues WB while Big Mom tied with Prime Kaido, so I'm just clearing this up.
> 
> However, since this is about Big Mom vs Akainu, I think, logically, their best feats vs emperors would and should be considered. Maybe in the future he's revealed to be above Big Mom, Kaido and Shanks but rn we don't have that proof, especially for his current form.


Fair enough


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Zoro said:


> Whitebeard is stronger than Shanks, Kaido, and Big Meme.


 WB who was sick & couldn't use haki properly was clearly weaker, as Mihawk, Crocodile, Marco etc. pointed out.


Zoro said:


> when you get Oda to say in his sbs that he lied about the WSM Wb, I’d gladly change positions. Until then, work hard on exposing Oda! You can do it my boi!


& when you debunk Big Mom rivalling Shiki, Roger and Prime WB then I'll gladly admit that MF Whitebeard > Big Mom.

*Until then, you better hope Oda doesn't give us more haki related powerups, because then you know... those haki issues vs Akainu...lol *


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## ShadoLord (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Yeah Prime WB. WB who was sick & couldn't use haki properly was clearly weaker as Mihawk, Crocodile, Marco etc. pointed out.
> 
> & when you debunk Big Mom rivalling Shiki, Roger and Prime WB then I'll gladly admit that MF Whitebeard > Big Mom. Until then, you better hope Oda doesn't give us more haki related powers, because then you know... those haki issues vs Akainu...lol


Blah blah blah

give me the SBS post or concession accepted

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Kamisori (Dec 7, 2021)

The sick, hakiless, old man with the white moustache you guys keep downplaying is the reason why your Queen couldn't reach her dream and had to organize a forced marriage to get one step closer until he died.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Zoro said:


> Blah blah blah
> 
> give me the SBS post or concession accepted


Cope cope cope. 
Your boy Mihawk said he was weaker than his prime.


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## ShadoLord (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Cope cope cope.
> Your boy Mihawk said he was weaker than his prime.


I did say Old Wb was their superior, if I didn’t I’d correct it now.


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Garou said:


> The sick, hakiless, old man with the white moustache you guys keep downplaying is the reason why your Queen couldn't reach her dream and had to organize a forced marriage to get one step closer until he died.


Actually this was referring to a time before he was confirmed to be sick i.e. when Lola could have gotten married. Nice try though.

The reaching you guys do to prove that sick, haki less WB was above Shanks, Kaido and Big Mom is hilarious, especially when his prime self was already competing with Roger, Shiki & Big Mom herself and especially when we are seeing what AdCoC could do especially in flashbacks of WB himself in his prime.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Zoro said:


> I did say Old Wb was their superior, if I didn’t I’d correct it now.


Nah you're just being purposefully obtuse. He earned that title in his prime when Shiki and Big Mom were his rivals, and was sick and weakening in the war. You can try to troll all you want, you and I both know the truth and the more haki related powers Oda gives to top tiers, the more apparent this becomes lmao!


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## MO (Dec 7, 2021)

Garou said:


> The sick, hakiless, old man with the white moustache you guys keep downplaying is the reason why your Queen couldn't reach her dream and had to organize a forced marriage to get one step closer until he died.


it's all 3 emperors, not just whitebeard.

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

I hope people keep this same energy i.e. that being unable to use haki properly as a top tier, isn't that big a deal, when their favs use advanced CoC to win fights lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ShadoLord (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Nah you're just being purposefully obtuse. He earned that title in his prime when Shiki and Big Mom were his rivals, and was sick and weakening in the war. You can try to troll all you want, you and I both know the truth and the more haki related powers Oda gives to top tiers, the more apparent this becomes lmao!


You can troll and rebel all you want but what Oda said is the truth.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

MO said:


> it's all 3 emperors, not just whitebeard.


They conveniently ignore that in his Prime, Big Mom and Shiki were also being compared to him as powerful pirates, rivals in the New World and/or equals to Roger.


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Zoro said:


> You can troll and rebel all you want but what Oda said is the truth.


Yeah WB was the strongest pirate in the world _when he wasn't getting heart attacks and struggling to use basic haki. Hence him clashing equally with Shanks while medicated._ *I mean even WB said he can't be the strongest forever to literally explain how Squardo was able to stab him* & Crocodile/Marco pointed out that he was weakening after we saw his title box.



As I said_ PURPOSEFULLY OBTUSE_.

*Just goes to show how using Big Mom vs Kaido & Akainu vs Sick WB really did work. Dies**

Let Akainu get some updated feats in him before he can be considered > Big Mom, Kaido & Shanks until then he has neither feats nor hype that puts him above them.


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## ShadoLord (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Yeah WB was the strongest pirate in the world _when he wasn't getting heart attacks and struggling to use basic haki. Hence him clashing equally with Shanks while medicated._ I mean even WB said he can't be the strongest forever & Crocodile/Marco pointed out that he was weakening after we saw his title box.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So when are you gonna provide proof of Oda going back on his words?


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## AmitDS (Dec 7, 2021)

Zoro said:


> So when are you gonna provide proof of Oda going back on his words?


I already did. He wrote the manga didn't he? See this is what happens when you guys can't find actual feats and hype despite hailing your favs as above everyone else all these years. The fandom echo chamber doesn't count.  Down bad lol


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## ShadoLord (Dec 7, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> I already did. He wrote the manga didn't he? See this is what happens when you guys can't find actual feats and hype despite hailing your favs as above everyone else all these years. The fandom echo chamber doesn't count.  Down bad lol


I don’t see it. All I saw was people left and right screaming WSM!

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Sherlōck (Dec 7, 2021)

I agree WB wasn't WSM at MF.

He at least was as strong as Big Meme imo.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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