# Would Itachi Have Been Able to Seal an Uncontrolled Nagato?



## BoomerAang (Feb 7, 2013)

After watching the latest Naruto episode, it's easy to see that Nagato's sealing by Itachi was made much, much easier by the fact that Nagato's actions were controlled directly by Kabuto (therefore impairing Nagato's reaction time and decision-making). 

Would the fight between an edo Nagato and Itachi, Naruto and Bee have ended differently if Nagato was in full control of himself? 

Discuss.


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## raizen28 (Feb 7, 2013)

Hell no. Hell no


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## Bkprince33 (Feb 7, 2013)

It would actually happen the same way, itachi sealed nagato because of a dust cloud it didn't really have much to do with strength or anything , if nagato wasn't a edo, bees lariat would of caused him massive damage and he would of never even got the chance to obtain his prime form.


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## Stermor (Feb 7, 2013)

there would have been nothing stopping nagato from instantly destroying itachi with a high powered shinra tensei.. 

nagato if he really wants it can counter everything itachi does.. it is just a matter of cis and pis..


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## Bkprince33 (Feb 7, 2013)

Stermor said:


> there would have been nothing stopping nagato from instantly destroying itachi with a high powered shinra tensei..
> 
> nagato if he really wants it can counter everything itachi does.. it is just a matter of cis and pis..



Well this sounds reasonable 


We all know nagato is a bit stronger but you dont think your going over board? And beside that why would nagato use a high powered st on one opponent when he has naruto and bee in the battle also?


He uses a high powered st on possibly a kage bushin and then loses his virginity to bee and naruto.


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## Stermor (Feb 7, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> Well this sounds reasonable
> 
> 
> We all know nagato is a bit stronger but you dont think your going over board? And beside that why would nagato use a high powered st on one opponent when he has naruto and bee in the battle also?
> ...



actually since he fought naruto it would be quite suited for him to start with a shrina tensei as powerful as the toad defeating one.. 

since it gives him time to plan ahead, which can then be used for a ct(which he probely doesn't know can get destroyed).. 

actually it would be unlikely that naruto bee and itachi can get powerful enough attacks off after the confusion and the knockback from a powerful shinra tensei.. 

look nagato is unlikely to win this matchup.. but an unrestrained nagato will not get sealed by itachi.. it is far more likely he will eat a bijuu dama from bee..


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 7, 2013)

In all reality Nagato would have to spam CST over and over to ensure Itachi doesn't get within range to finger Genjutsu or MS him. BTing him out of Susano is a non-option as that requires a high level of concentration, something he won't be getting with KCM Naruto and Bee around, and with Itachi looking at him manipulating his body, that just results in an amy release blazing everything in full view, including Nagato. 

CST spam stalemates until Bee decides he wants to blow Nagato to shit.


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## ZE (Feb 7, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> if nagato wasn't a edo, bees lariat would of caused him massive damage and he would of never even got the chance to obtain his prime form.


I love this argument. Let me try: if Itachi wasn't an edo, his skirmish with Naruto would've ended with Itachi with two broken arms from trying to stop Naruto's hits.



DaVizWiz said:


> In all reality Nagato would have to spam CST over and over to ensure Itachi doesn't get within range to finger Genjutsu or MS him.



Would Nagato have to do that to beat Tayuya or Kurenai as well?


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 7, 2013)

> Would Nagato have to do that to beat Tayuya or Kurenai as well?


Unless Bee and KCM Naruto are hog tied, I'd assume so.


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## ZE (Feb 7, 2013)

So Itachi would've to do that against SM Jiraiya, or Tayuya as well.
I see...


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## Vice (Feb 7, 2013)

Realistically? Fuck no. 

If Kishi has an Itachi boner while writing the manga? Probably.


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## ueharakk (Feb 7, 2013)

If Nagato was in full control (as in no plot restriction), Bee and Naruto would have to also be unrestricted by plot in order for the trio to pull off a high difficulty win.


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## Jizznificent (Feb 7, 2013)

BoomerAang said:


> After watching the latest Naruto episode, it's easy to see that Nagato's sealing by Itachi was made much, much easier by the fact that *Nagato's actions were controlled directly by Kabuto (therefore impairing Nagato's reaction time and decision-making). *
> 
> Would the fight between an edo Nagato and Itachi, Naruto and Bee have ended differently if Nagato was in full control of himself?
> 
> Discuss.


the bold was pretty clear to me even in the manga. once kabuto erased nagato's mind, nagato was was no longer nagato. all his actions were kabuto's decision. same shit with the 3rd raikage, and any other edo's that that had their minds erase. 

edo tensei is at its best when the edo is willing to coorporate with the user.


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## Kai (Feb 7, 2013)

Not if Nagato's trump cards enter the fray. Itachi needs Amaterasu and Susano'o just to deal with Nagato's vast array of high level abilities (Cerberus, Shinra Tensei, Bansho Tennin).

Nagato ups the ante with Chou Shinra Tensei or Chibaku Tensei and Itachi doesn't have anything higher to match such power. He was reasonable in promoting teamwork in overcoming prime Nagato, unlike most of his more partial fanbase.

Nagato stood pretty much no chance against all three of them though.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 7, 2013)

It's hard to say he stood no chance vs all three, Kai.  Nagato regained control of his body just before the sealing, which implies that he made himself vulnerable to the hit.  Though it's Kishi level vague.


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## Nikushimi (Feb 7, 2013)

Itachi, Naruto, and B still would've beaten Nagato, but the fight would probably have lasted a lot longer. Kabuto was just plain incompetent with Nagato's powers.


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## Bkprince33 (Feb 7, 2013)

ZE said:


> I love this argument. Let me try: if Itachi wasn't an edo, his skirmish with Naruto would've ended with Itachi with two broken arms from trying to stop Naruto's hits.
> 
> 
> 
> Would Nagato have to do that to beat Tayuya or Kurenai as well?



I love the ignorance, what does edo itachi have to do with nagato being hit by bee's lariat? It's pretty Much Canon nagato is stronger then itachi yet you still feel the need to downplay itachi for what reason?



Naruto obviously didn't damage itachi because it would have showed the damaged and regeneration.


Itachi parried, nagato took a direct clothesline from v2 bee big difference.




If I wanted to stoop to your level I could easily say if nagato wasn't a edo he would of been dead from the first amatarasu 


As for ppl arguing st, the chibaku tensei was the best offense against three opponents, it just so happened itachi knew the counter to it, its not like itachi is stronger, he just showed he's a smart ninja no need to be butthurt over it sheesh


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## ZE (Feb 7, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> I love the ignorance, what does edo itachi have to do with nagato being hit by bee's lariat? It's pretty Much Canon nagato is stronger then itachi yet you still feel the need to downplay itachi for what reason?


Bee’s lariat did shit to Nagato, and that was shown in the manga. Yet, you’re saying Bee’s lariat would’ve killed Nagato – and that, my friend, is an unsupported opinion that I shot down. If that offended you, sorry, but it is the reality. 

Now, allow me to ask you for a scan where we see Nagato regenerating from the lariat. I’ve got a scan of Nagato tanking it, but one where he took damage from it? Nowhere to be found. So cute. 




> Naruto obviously didn't damage itachi because it would have showed the damaged and regeneration.


Exactly. Seems like you get it. Nagato obviously wasn't damaged by Bee's lariat because otherwise it would have showed the damage and regeneration.



> Itachi parried, nagato took a direct clothesline from v2 bee big difference.


If Nagato took a direct hit and nothing happened, maybe he's that durable? Having problems accepting that? Cry me a river. I'm not the one refuting canon here just so you know.



> If I wanted to stoop to your level I could easily say if nagato wasn't a edo he would of been dead from the first amatarasu


To which I would reply that amateratsu only damaged Nagato’s arm, and since a person can survive without an arm, his death wasn’t certain. But sure, amateratsu beats Nagato. You're free to believe MS Sasuke with amateratsu alone can beat Nagato. It's not canon, but it wasn't proven wrong either. Now Bee's lariat lacking damaging Nagato... that's a different story because the manga showed the result.


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## Bkprince33 (Feb 7, 2013)

ZE said:


> Bee?s lariat did shit to Nagato, and that was shown in the manga. Yet, you?re saying Bee?s lariat would?ve killed Nagato ? and that, my friend, is an unsupported opinion that I shot down. If that offended you, sorry, but it is the reality.
> 
> Now, allow me to ask you for a scan where we see Nagato regenerating from the lariat. I?ve got a scan of Nagato tanking it, but one where he took damage from it? Nowhere to be found. So cute.
> 
> ...


 

So you believe nagato can take a v2 lariat from bee without suffering any damage whatsoever ever?



So I guess nagato was laying motionless because he liked the way the flames felt against his skin .


No I don't your putting words in my mouth nagato is above both of the uchiha but it doesn't make him immune to attacks from ppl below him.

A v2 bee lariat would seriously injure him and amatarasu would kill him if he didnt repel it in time.


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## ZE (Feb 7, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> So you believe nagato can take a v2 lariat from bee without suffering any damage whatsoever ever?


Wasn’t that what the manga showed? Now show me something to back up your point.



> So I guess nagato was laying motionless because he liked the way the flames felt against his skin .


What’s that got to do with what we’re talking about? Showing signs of dementia? 



> No I don't your putting words in my mouth nagato is above both of the uchiha but it doesn't make him immune to attacks from ppl below him.
> 
> A v2 bee lariat would seriously injure him and amatarasu would kill him if he didnt repel it in time.


It doesn’t matter if he’s above or bellow them. What matters here is that you’re going against what the manga showed by implying that an attack that lacked the sufficient power to make Nagato’s edo regeneration take effect would be capable of doing something it failed to do. 

Amateratsu can damage Nagato because it was shown doing exactly that. 
Bee can't damage Nagato if Nagato is using preta because it is manga canon.

What's so hard to understand? I'm sure you have something or a manga scan to prove your point or else I doubt you'd say lariat is too much for Nagato. Unless of course, that's an unfounded opinion.


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## Bkprince33 (Feb 7, 2013)

ZE said:


> Wasn?t that what the manga showed? Now show me something to back up your point.
> 
> 
> What?s that got to do with what we?re talking about? Showing signs of dementia?
> ...



The manga showed EDO nagato getting hit by lariat and while he was still on bees arm he used pretha path to absorb bees chakra.


Pretha path doesn't guard against taijutsu which is what bee's lariat is, because ur was a edo he didn't feel any pain whatsoever and was able to react with pretha path.



In itachis case being a edo doesn't enhance physical strenght, meaning if his arm would of been broken it still would of broke, we would of seen that. 



Nagato only survived amatarasu because he was a edo, the jutsu even killed cerberous, and also in that panel nagato face regenerated as well.


Nagato wouldn't be hit by a lariat in a one on one situation but on the off chance he was, he would suffer serious damage much like sasuke, nagato was never showed to have extraordinary durablity, only the paths and they where corpses.


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## ZE (Feb 7, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> The manga showed EDO nagato getting hit by lariat and while he was still on bees arm he used pretha path to absorb bees chakra.
> 
> 
> Pretha path doesn't guard against taijutsu which is what bee's lariat is, because ur was a edo he didn't feel any pain whatsoever and was able to react with pretha path.
> ...


Just say it. I’m waiting for it. It would be so much simple to just say:
“Nagato couldn’t tank lariat BECAUSE I don’t want him to be that durable” 
Go ahead, I’m waiting. 

Embarrassing how you're still talking out of your ass. You can't even post proof of anything you say. 

Read this slowly, maybe you'll understand: 
"If Bee's lariat was strong enough to damage Nagato, the manga would've shown it."

It's not that hard, dude. 



> Nagato only survived amatarasu because he was a edo, the jutsu even killed cerberous, and also in that panel nagato face regenerated as well.


Post the panel of his face regenerating, then. 



> Nagato wouldn't be hit by a lariat in a one on one situation but on the off chance he was, he would suffer serious damage much like sasuke, nagato was never showed to have extraordinary durablity, only the paths and they where corpses.


Well, I’m afraid my friend, Nagato is that durable, which is why he tanked a multitude of exploding tags attacked to his legs and kept both of them… Compared to Shodai and Nidaime, who lost their legs to one exploding tag only, he’s got above average durability. 

You got nothing.


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## eyeknockout (Feb 7, 2013)

even a nagato with EMS, rinnegan and mokuton would lose to a team of itachi, naruto and bee. no matter what, nagato would have definately been sealed by itachi


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## Grimmjowsensei (Feb 7, 2013)

There is absoultely no reason to believe that his reaction speed was impaired. He took control of Raikage too, and he lived up to his speed hype. 

So yeah, Itachi'd still seal him.


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## Joakim3 (Feb 7, 2013)

eyeknockout said:


> even a nagato with EMS, rinnegan and mokuton would lose to a team of itachi, naruto and bee. no matter what, nagato would have definately been sealed by itachi



That would be essentially Edo Madara + (seeing we'd be giving him more "feats") as Madara doesn't spam rin'negan techs thanks to plot


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## Joakim3 (Feb 7, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> Nagato wouldn't be hit by a lariat in a one on one situation but on the off chance he was, he would suffer serious damage much like sasuke, *nagato was never showed to have extraordinary durablity, only the paths and they where corpses.*



Nagato is not durable ? yeah he's by no means Raikagenuat, Oro or Kakuzu with _Doton Domu_ levels.... but for "normal" people he's as far up as one can pretty much get (excluding _Shurado_) 

Nagato survived some ~30 exploding tags attached to his legs, and came out with severe nerve damage and burnt skin. 

Hidan who was was literally blown into 20 pieces from a FAR smaller blast... Hell even Obito's enhanced mokuton body was partially destroyed by a couple exploding tags from Konan

In terms of the topic... Euharakk hit the nail on the head

No Itachi would not be able to seal an unrestricted/uncontrolled Nagato with RM Naruto gimped the way he was. The field would have to be evened out with RM Naruto having full chakra & clones to counter balance.


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## Jagger (Feb 7, 2013)

eyeknockout said:


> even a nagato with EMS, rinnegan and mokuton would lose to a team of itachi, naruto and bee. no matter what, nagato would have definately been sealed by itachi


So you're basically saying that if Edo Madara were there, he would has still lost?


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## Empathy (Feb 7, 2013)

Nagato didn't have a chance against the combined strength of Itachi, Naruto, and Bee; three ninja who are at least not far off in strength. His offense was subsequently overwhelmed because of this, not because of poor piloting. On a singular level, Nagato already beat Itachi with _Chibaku Tensei_, a jutsu he could not counter on his own, before Itachi got to him with the _Totsuka_.


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## Rage of Hate (Feb 8, 2013)

Empathy said:


> Nagato didn't have a chance against the combined strength of Itachi, Naruto, and Bee; three ninja who are at least not far off in strength. His offense was subsequently overwhelmed because of this, not because of poor piloting. On a singular level, Nagato already beat Itachi with _Chibaku Tensei_, a jutsu he could not counter on his own, before Itachi got to him with the _Totsuka_.



But itachi already beat Nagato with Amaterasu. If not for edo tensei nagato would be dead. and if he somehow manages to deflect Amaterasu before setious damage he will be in cool down for 5 sec and itachi lights him up with Amaterasu again or are we forgetting about Tsukuyomi which would lay wast of nagato.

Both nagato and itachi are very cloes in power and anything less than a win with High difficulties (or mid diff due to favorable circumstance)  on either side is just being a big fan boy tard. Nagato needs his best jutsu and so does itachi.


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## Bkprince33 (Feb 8, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Nagato is not durable ? yeah he's by no means Raikagenuat, Oro or Kakuzu with _Doton Domu_ levels.... but for "normal" people he's as far up as one can pretty much get (excluding _Shurado_)
> 
> Nagato survived some ~30 exploding tags attached to his legs, and came out with severe nerve damage and burnt skin.
> 
> ...



Nagato, is not extraordinarily durable,by extrodinarly I mean oro, raikage, and sm naruto and not even they could casually tank a v2 lariat and be completley unphased.


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## Bkprince33 (Feb 8, 2013)

ZE said:


> Then why are you going against what was shown in the manga?
> 
> 
> That contradicts canon.
> ...



So instead of admitting your wrong we resort to trolling, I guess it makes sense, even if you found a small portion of my argument being stupid, you still haven't refuted my point , being a edo doesn't enhance physical strength.


Probably the last time I will respond to you, no point.in arguing against someine who is bias.


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## Joakim3 (Feb 8, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> Nagato, is not extraordinarily durable,by extrodinarly I mean oro, raikage, and sm naruto and not even they could casually tank a v2 lariat and be completley unphased.



Raikagenuat (the 3rd) flat out tanked an FRS to his chest, while Oro got ripped in half and simply laughed. They tank V2.... and casually at that 

SM Naruto is not extraordinarily compared to some of the later characters, as Nagato's chakra rods were casually peircing him and he was stunned by low powered _Shinra Tensei_, he's displayed no better then hell Nagato, and I think surviving this with just nerve and skin damage means you are HIGHLY durable


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## GKY (Feb 8, 2013)

He definitely could have...with the help of Bee and Naruto. Alone he'd be overwhelmed.


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## Vice (Feb 8, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> There is absoultely no reason to believe that his reaction speed was impaired. He took control of Raikage too, and he lived up to his speed hype.
> 
> So yeah, Itachi'd still seal him.



Really? Not being able to walk doesn't impair his reaction speed at all?


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## Bonly (Feb 8, 2013)

The details on how the fight would have gone down might have changed but the end result would likely be the same. Kabuto did a pretty good job controlling Nagato since he was about to rip Naruto's soul out as well as blast B's face off, heck had it not been for the dust cloud and Kabuto doing nothing, the fight could've gone on


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## ZE (Feb 8, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> So instead of admitting your wrong we resort to trolling, I guess it makes sense,


Is it trolling to prove your point right, which is what I did, and ask you to do the same? If you think it is, I don’t give a shit. Fact here is that: 

-I proved Nagato is more durable than Hidan, Nidaime and Hashirama. 
-I proved Nagato tanked lariat without regeneration, which shows living Nagato wouldn’t need regeneration to tank it.

You on the other hand, proved the following:
-Nothing
You didn’t prove shit. Get this through your head. 



> even if you found a small portion of my argument being stupid,


Your argument is almost as interesting as me saying living Itachi can't parry Naruto. Thus why I mentioned that before. 



> you still haven't refuted my point , being a edo doesn't enhance physical strength.



Exactly, which is why edo Nagato tanking lariat is the same as living Nagato tanking lariat. 
Let me make this easy for you to understand, it’s like I’m explaining this to a child, I swear.

being an edo doesn't enhance physical strength. (you said it yourself)
-Thus, edo Nagato has the same physical strength as living Nagato

Edo Nagato tanked lariat without regeneration (manga canon)
-Thus, living Nagato can tank lariat, which you were denying 


Still not getting it? You poor thing-



> Probably the last time I will respond to you, no point.in arguing against someine who is bias.


Bias? Maybe I'm bias towards the manga. Because right now the only thing I'm defending is what the manga showed. 

The manga shows Nagato doesnt need regeneration to tank lariat. 
I defend what the manga shows.

Can't get more simpler than that. If you don't like the things depicted in the manga, like Nagato being durable enough to tank lariat, you're free to do so. Just don't come in here saying that the manga is wrong because that's what you've been doing.


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## Kai (Feb 8, 2013)

Rage of Hate said:


> But itachi already beat Nagato with Amaterasu. If not for edo tensei nagato would be dead. and if he somehow manages to deflect Amaterasu before setious damage he will be in cool down for 5 sec and itachi lights him up with Amaterasu again


Nagato canonically *sensed* Amaterasu coming before it even formed. He sets up Preta Path and Itachi can Amaterasu him as much as he would like, only making him more powerful.



			
				Rage of Hate said:
			
		

> or are we forgetting about Tsukuyomi which would lay wast of nagato.


3 tomoe Sharingan was stated to provide a baseline of resistance to Tsukiyomi, yet you expect it to casually work on a dojutsu that is three magnitudes higher ?


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## Dominus (Feb 8, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> SM Naruto is not extraordinarily compared to some of the later characters, as Nagato's chakra rods were casually peircing him and he was stunned by low powered _Shinra Tensei_, he's displayed no better then hell Nagato, and I think surviving this with just nerve and skin damage means you are HIGHLY durable



He was a _beast_


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## Empathy (Feb 9, 2013)

Rage of Hate said:


> But itachi already beat Nagato with Amaterasu. If not for edo tensei nagato would be dead. and if he somehow manages to deflect Amaterasu before setious damage he will be in cool down for 5 sec and itachi lights him up with Amaterasu again or are we forgetting about Tsukuyomi which would lay wast of nagato.
> 
> Both nagato and itachi are very cloes in power and anything less than a win with High difficulties (or mid diff due to favorable circumstance)  on either side is just being a big fan boy tard. Nagato needs his best jutsu and so does itachi.



Speaking solely of their encounter as Edo Nagato and Edo Itachi, Nagato won first. I was speaking entirely of their manga battle and how Nagato had Itachi beaten before the latter sealed him with help. As for _Amaterasu_, Nagato had displayed a canonical ability to counter it. There's no reason why he couldn't have dispersed it sooner, but as Nagato he wanted to be beaten by them. He only dispelled them when Kabuto took over control. I don't see any reason why Nagato couldn't have absorbed the flames either, although capitalizing on the interval isn't so simple. _Tsukuyomi_ never occurred in their battle and it's interaction with Nagato is debatable. I can agree with them being close in power and only winning with high difficulty, but I think Nagato has objectively been portrayed as superior and their fight only contributed to that.


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## ZE (Feb 9, 2013)

Itachi only used amateratsu on Nagato from such a close range due to two reasons:
-Nagato let Itachi ride the bird
-Nagato didn't attack Itachi even when he had seen Itachi using amateratsu on the dog. 

Now, could Itachi beat Nagato with amateratsu if he manages to hit Nagato with it? He could, but for that to happen Nagato can't have preta realm's ability activated (which he only did after Kabuto wiped out his personality) and Shinra Tensei can't be available at that time.


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## Lawrence777 (Feb 9, 2013)

In the context of that fight, with Naruto and Killer Bee both harassing him simultaneously, Itachi would probably be able to sneak in a lethal attack even if Nagato was not being controlled.

I don't think Nagato'd be able to hold off Naruto and Bee and still keep his eye on Itachi trying to snipe him/ sneak attack him.



Nagato's only weaknesses really are genjutsu and feint/sneak attacks. Itachi _does_ excel at genjutsu and trickery, so I wouldn't count him out when it comes to finding an opening against Nagato.


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## Blaze Release (Feb 9, 2013)

Edo nagato is very strong and if he was in control of his body, he would have lasted longer, however its absurd to think he would beat edo itachi, naruto and bee. It might have lasted longer, but he would still lose.

However people saying the sole reason why nagato got sealed was because of kabuto controlling him, that is vague for many reasons.

Nagato even with his legs back still lacks mobility because he hasn't used his longs for roughly half his life. Lets say you have had an accident and have been in hospital for some time. After recovering you go through, the process of learning to walk again. You wouldn't go from being bed ridden to jumping up and down, its a slow progress before you'd be able to gain back this movement and that is the exact thing with nagato. Think its called muscle memory.

Another reason is the dust cloud. The rinnegan's shared vision was already countered. However the dust cloud acted on a similar note to a smoke bomb. Against jiraiya and agains't kakashi they did a similar thing, however the paths had the shared vision therefore they saw through it [1, 2]

In short the gust, also contributed to nagato being sealed after the shared vision was countered [1]


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## Rage of Hate (Feb 9, 2013)

Empathy said:


> Speaking solely of their encounter as Edo Nagato and Edo Itachi, Nagato won first. I was speaking entirely of their manga battle and how Nagato had Itachi beaten before the latter sealed him with help. As for _Amaterasu_, Nagato had displayed a canonical ability to counter it. There's no reason why he couldn't have dispersed it sooner, but as Nagato he wanted to be beaten by them. He only dispelled them when Kabuto took over control. I don't see any reason why Nagato couldn't have absorbed the flames either, although capitalizing on the interval isn't so simple. _Tsukuyomi_ never occurred in their battle and it's interaction with Nagato is debatable. I can agree with them being close in power and only winning with high difficulty, but I think Nagato has objectively been portrayed as superior and their fight only contributed to that.



For itachi capitalizing and making openings for Tsukuyomi, totuska or Amaterasu it is almost a simple task for itachi. Nagato if you don't know isn't really that stable nor does he posses any uchiha blood and spiritual chakra he will be affected and beat by Tsukuyomi or at the very least create a big opening. 

However i can totally see people thinking Nagato > itachi as long as they accept that nagato would need his best cards and a hell of a lot of difficulty to bring itachi down. Nagato and itachi is like tossing a coin, 50/50 but to me i'd but my bet on itachi.

Anyway this whole excuses That Amaterasu is a non factor is untrue and that nagato can react to every Amaterasu itachi uses is untrue inits self as well as the fact that he can absorb or ST Amaterasu without taking any significant damage.

Hell regular genjutsu would pose a real threat to nagato as well and also itachi always set the passes in CQC. He could easily mange to use Fire Release Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson which will have nagato response to using petra path and that won't go down to well for him even if he does tank it, it would just create a another opening for additional attack. 

AS for CT, i dont think itachi can counter it when it is up in the air but what stops him from Amaterasu whilst preparing it as it takes time and concentration on nagatos part. 

And also itachi has Koto which would end the match but because of plot needed to use it on him self (Not really what itachi wanted). 

But Koto is to "Healthy" Itachi is what Pein is to "Prime" Nagato.

Hell this fight would have been amazing. They have counters to each others but weakness to each others as well.


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## Goobtachi (Feb 9, 2013)

Nagato wouldn't even have fought them to begin with if he was in control.


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## Empathy (Feb 9, 2013)

Rage of Hate, I'm not here to plead my case for why I think Nagato would beat Itachi. I merely brought up a point that happened in the manga. Other things that could've, but didn't happen in their battle I've no interest in discussing as I've made up my mind about them long ago. But I'll respond to you, nonetheless: 



Rage of Hate said:


> For itachi capitalizing and making openings for Tsukuyomi, totuska or Amaterasu it is almost a simple task for itachi. Nagato if you don't know isn't really that stable nor does he posses any uchiha blood and spiritual chakra he will be affected and beat by Tsukuyomi or at the very least create a big opening.
> 
> However i can totally see people thinking Nagato > itachi as long as they accept that nagato would need his best cards and a hell of a lot of difficulty to bring itachi down. Nagato and itachi is like tossing a coin, 50/50 but to me i'd but my bet on itachi.
> 
> ...



If you really think it's so easy for Itachi capitalize on the interval (it's debatable if Nagato even has an interval) with literally any of his Mangekyou techniques, then you shouldn't think this is so close. If it's simple for Itachi to capitalize on the interval with, say, the _Totsuka_ like you said, then the fight ends right after the first _Shinra Tensei_ when Nagato would be sealed by the _Totsuka_. I personally don't think so. I wouldn't say that _Amaterasu_ is a non-factor, but it is a jutsu Nagato has shown to counter and you can't deny that. There's no reason why _Fuujutsu Kyuuin_ couldn't absorb it other than Kabuto choosing to use _Shinra Tensei_ instead, which isn't proof of anything. I don't think Itachi's base genjutsu would be a significant problem at all for Nagato. Every citizen in Amegakure had genjutsu blockades in their brains, so it's safe to assume Nagato has them, too. 

Nagato has Madara's eyes two levels ahead of Itachi's doujutsu. He should be able to see past his rudimentary genjutsu. It's even debatable if he could counter or at least withstand _Tsukuyomi_. Itachi stated only those with eyes like him and his lineage could break _Tsukuyomi_. Nagato has eyes two levels ahead of Itachi and they're at least distantly related. The Uzumaki and Senju clans are distant relatives, which makes the Uzumaki and Uchiha distant relatives as well. Part I Kakashi was at least able to resist _Tsukuyomi_ for a while with just a sharingan and no relation. Nagato should be able to at least provide some sort of resistance rather than being helpless in Itachi's hands. Nagato is also a sensor with linked vision, making him ideal in avoiding eye-contact by staring at Itachi's feet, back, or anywhere that's not his eyes. Part I Sasuke essentially did _Katon: Housenka Tsumabeni_ in the forest of death, but with Itachi there's a vast gap in aptitude.

The effect you're suggesting is the same, though. Nagato could either blow them away with _Shinra Tensei_ or just absorb the flames and block the shuriken with Asura's armor. I think their fight would end with _Chibaku Tensei_. Itachi doesn't have anything to definitively stop Nagato like that does. Itachi would have to within _Amaterasu's_ limited range to attempt to preempt it. He can still counter _Amaterasu_ and Nagato's capable of flight to avoid immediate incineration. Itachi died before ever having access to _Kotoamatsukami_, so I don't consider it his power. You are right about equating, '_prime_,' Nagato with Itachi with access to _Kotoamatsukami_. The former only exists with _Edo Tensei_. Pain vs. Itachi is much more appropriate, although much less prevalent since a rejuvenated Nagato was shown. I'd still give the advantage to Pain.


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## Jυstin (Feb 9, 2013)

Well Nagato allowing his muscles to suffer atrophy from years of disuse kind of stunt him in the sense that dodging the sword, even if he sees it coming, almost becomes a non-option. Considering how fast Susano'o attacks, Nagato's just out of shape, movement-wise.

Assuming Shinra Tensei works on a spiritual item, this would be his method of avoiding it, but it's not like reflecting a projectile. Susano'o could just press on the attack after he uses Shinra Tensei, or even fight against its push and keep gunning it towards him until the attack lets down.


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## Empathy (Feb 9, 2013)

I agree, dodging it is entirely is out of the question. Moreover from his atrophied body, no one short of the fastest characters even have a chance at evasion. But Nagato has shown exceptional reflexive feats and a strong enough _Shinra Tensei_ could at least block it. _Banshou Ten'in_ could also take the weapon away if think it can like I do. That, or the more obvious counter of summoning a bird (levitation would suffice if the bird is not viable) and flying out of the sword's limited reach. Flight is a remarkably simple and definite counter to avoiding the _Totsuka_.


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## Dr. White (Feb 9, 2013)

ZE said:


> > I love this argument. Let me try: if Itachi wasn't an edo, his skirmish with Naruto would've ended with Itachi with two broken arms from trying to stop Naruto's hits.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Jυstin (Feb 9, 2013)

Empathy said:


> I agree, dodging it is entirely is out of the question. Moreover from his atrophied body, no one short of the fastest characters even have a chance at evasion. But Nagato has shown exceptional reflexive feats and a strong enough _Shinra Tensei_ could at least block it. _Banshou Ten'in_ could also take the weapon away if think it can like I do. That, or the more obvious counter of summoning a bird (levitation would suffice if the bird is not viable) and flying out of the sword's limited reach. Flight is a remarkably simple and definite counter to avoiding the _Totsuka_.



I think Bansho Ten'in would have to take the gourd away, since that's where the sword comes from, if it can affect it at all. I think summoning the 3-legged bird would be the best way of getting out of its range. Of course, Susano'o could try whipping Yasanaka's Magatama to knock it out of the sky, but in terms of the Totsuka itself, it has definite range. If he can get in the air in time, he can avoid it completely.

Though he'd have to get pretty high pretty fast, if the panels of Itachi blitzing Orochimaru with it, showing how long the sword extends in the process is anything to go by. Not an impossible feat, but highly difficult.


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## Empathy (Feb 9, 2013)

Jυstin said:


> I think Bansho Ten'in would have to take the gourd away, since that's where the sword comes from, if it can affect it at all. I think summoning the 3-legged bird would be the best way of getting out of its range. Of course, Susano'o could try whipping Yasanaka's Magatama to knock it out of the sky, but in terms of the Totsuka itself, it has definite range. If he can get in the air in time, he can avoid it completely.
> 
> Though he'd have to get pretty high pretty fast, if the panels of Itachi blitzing Orochimaru with it, showing how long the sword extends in the process is anything to go by. Not an impossible feat, but highly difficult.



Yeah, he would have to take the gourd away, not the liquid. If he can create some distance with _Shinra Tensei_ and then go airborne that would be ideal. Then it just becomes a game of running defense from _Yasaka no Magatama_ with _Shinra Tensei_. From there he's at a safe enough distance to freely execute _Chibaku Tensei_. I'm not saying he would be able to do this flawlessly every time, but Nagato has enough resources and firepower that he would be able to at least put up some reasonable opposition toward even _Susanoo_.


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## LostSelf (Feb 10, 2013)

Empathy said:


> Nagato didn't have a chance against the combined strength of Itachi, Naruto, and Bee; three ninja who are at least not far off in strength. His offense was subsequently overwhelmed because of this, not because of poor piloting. On a singular level, Nagato already beat Itachi with _Chibaku Tensei_, a jutsu he could not counter on his own, before Itachi got to him with the _Totsuka_.



Hell yeah this fight was because of poor piloting. Ask the guy that forgot that Itachi was in the fight.

Every hit Itachi connected had something behind. Nagato not dispelling Ama before it damages his cloack, Nagato (Kabuto) not realizing his summons were hit by Kunais, and such.

Either way, he would've lost.


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## Jizznificent (Feb 10, 2013)

i doubt itachi's sneak attacks would have worked if nagato was in control and willing to fight. on top of the shared vision, nagato can also sense. so:

- nagato would have likely sensed itachi hiding before itachi decided to attack with his kunais and susanoo.

- nagato would have likely sensed naruto, bee and itachi hiding behind the smoke screen after chibabu tensei's destruction.

on top of that nagato would have also countered amaterasu with before it hit.


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## iJutsu (Feb 10, 2013)

Itachi could totsuka Nagato very easily. Nagato is alone. He's not gonna snap out of a ms genjutsu. He's basically a sitting duck.


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## Black☆Star (Feb 10, 2013)

iJutsu said:


> Itachi could totsuka Nagato very easily. Nagato is alone. He's not gonna snap out of a ms genjutsu. He's basically a sitting duck.


I see, so Itachi needed to hide in the bushes to pull all those cheap shots against a sitting duck that never focused on him. He also needed a dust cloud from a jutsu Itachi couldn't escape from by himself to use the Totsuka on Nagato, yeah looks very easy.

The only time Itachi faced Nagato directly was when Naruto and Bee were next him (very brave dat Itachi) and then Chibaku Tensei happened where he was helpless.


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## Akitō (Feb 10, 2013)

Nagato still would have lost quickly, although it might've been a little closer. There isn't any denying that Nagato was horribly outmatched: he was facing three characters that could nearly match his strength individually. He never had a chance of winning - it was just a matter of whether he could take one of them down with him.


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## Meruem (Feb 10, 2013)

Vice said:


> Realistically? Fuck no.
> 
> If Kishi has an Itachi boner while writing the manga? Probably.


He always does so realistically: probably.


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## ZE (Feb 10, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> ZE said:
> 
> 
> > -Haters at their worst: A.) Itachi has Susano with with lightning fast feats(literally) what makes you think anything barring CT is busting Susano?B.) Kakashi in his fight vs Deva was able to take an ST from point blank range, and Bee wasn't even notably phased by the ST as with Naruto(minus obviously being blown back) what makes you think you can just simply say Itachi breaks his arms and his out of the fight? Itachi showed that his skills were enough to blind pain, and blitz him with Susano before he could react, not to mention soloing cerberus with one move. Itachi has the tools to take on Nagato alone, and his intelligence aids him well vs a foe like Nagato. LOL if you think Nagato is that superior to Itachi that he can beat him with 1 ST lol that hasn't even soloed the likes of Hinata
> ...


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## Tobirama Uchiha (May 14, 2016)

Back then it was just a lucky hit for Itachi...He only can dream to defeat Nagato

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## IzayaOrihara (May 14, 2016)

No way. Just like Itachi wouldnt have sealed Orochimaru if he wasnt stuck to an immobile big fat eight headed snake.


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## sanninme rikudo (May 14, 2016)

No, not at all…

He would've actually utilized his sensing prowess.


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## ImSerious (May 14, 2016)

Nagato stands no chance against the combined powers of Itachi, Naruto and Bee, controlled or not.


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## ARGUS (May 14, 2016)

Nagato would not have won against the 3 of them. The trio pretty much countered everything 

 -- CT was countered 
 -- shared vision was counteed 
 -- asura path was countered 
 -- Bee survives CST in hachibi form and afterwards Nagato is gone in his cool down 
 -- Nagato eventually gets sealed by Totsuka. And contending with them in CQC results in him outnumbered and then outclassed 

Individually however none of them stand much of a chance against him 

 -- preta pretty much shuts naruto or Itachi down. Naruto loses his shroud and gets to base whereas Itschi loses his Susanoo. Once that happens the outcome would be them turned to pudding

 -- shurado would restrain any of them in CQC bar hachibi form bee. Chameleon sneak catching them and then shurado shooting a bullet through their skull is GG 

 -- only main issue is bees TBB in a 1v1. But a large St deflects it back at his face and bee gets put out of commission


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## Empathy (May 14, 2016)

Why is Kabuto's control of Nagato called inept, when one of the first things he did was get Nagato's body rejuvenated, something Nagato failed to do his entire life, then came moments from capturing the Kyuubi and Hachibi. If he anything, it was the most efficient and proactive Nagato's ever been, and he wasn't the one piloting himself.He did literally forget about Itachi, but PIS, what're you gonna do?; it wasn't the specific reason he lost.


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## Muah (May 15, 2016)

Itachi is such a gary sue its hard to say no but Nagato is undoubetdly stronger and better ninja. Not only was nagato trained by jiriya but also he was the leader of akutski. 

The boss of itachi. He also has the perfect counter to any ninjutsu itachi has. Itachi also cant spam ems so he would be badly hurt if he misses any jutsus. Nagato has better reaction speed, better eyes and much more chakara. So i have to say he would beat itachi 7 out of 10 times.


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