# Naruto 597 Discussion - Part 1



## Fay (Aug 11, 2012)

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is .

Predict away !

Announcement​


> Jump *double issue* 36-37 = on sale 8/6 = Naruto 596
> 8/13 = No Jump week
> Jump issue 38 = on sale 8/20 = Naruto 597
> 
> However, the week following a double issue break generally gets spoilers early (since Jump prints and ships early to retailers), so OP 677 Naruto 597 spoilers will probably be here a week early, and the wait will be allevated by being pushed back to the following week.



Rules:


			
				Hiroshi said:
			
		

> Some things you should keep in mind before posting:
> 
> 1. Don't post if you can't keep on-topic.
> 2. Don't post if you're going to flame others.
> ...


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## Fay (Aug 11, 2012)

*Naruto 597 Prediction Thread [Read OP; yes, it still applies] - Part 1*



k2nice said:


> All of Evils Post
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


REPOSTED YO


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

No but seriously that pic has me a little worried.

Not about being wrong about Tobi, I don't care _as much_ about that.

But if Tobi turns out to be some unknown (until now) relative of Obito's that will be an awful, terrible twist, along with a terrible motivation.


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## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> But if Tobi turns out to be some unknown (until now) relative of Obito's that will be an awful, terrible twist, along with a terrible motivation.



Yes, it really would turn out to be a bad twist but I think it's safe to say that such a thing won't happen.  I at least have that much faith in Kishi.


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## son_michael (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> compared to brother of the strongest uchiha, who was madara's rival and ruled the clan with him. Fought during the war times, went toe to toe with senjus, possibly knew hashirama and tobirama and fought them side by side with madara. Followed Madara's steps into unveiling the secrets of the sharingan and knows about what is written on the rikudou tablet. Knows Madara's motivations and plans and is with him in all this...has justified knowledge on the rikudou's sons backstory, knows about Juubi, Zetsu, hashirama's powers, and has a reason to backup his motivation for the eye of the moon plan...
> 
> mather of opinion but, as much as it would be amusing to see how the fuck kishi would explain Obito suddenly turning into this, i still think that Izuna would be the one with the most backup to explain what he dared to plan in the first place.




regardless of our opinions. Izuna reveal does not make sense at all. if madara was there, i could see it happening. However kakashi and Naruto would have no clue who the hell he is and that would make the reveal menaingless

*mask falls off*

Naruto= who...who is that?

Kakashi= I don't know.

Izuna= That's the reason I wear this mask! Since nobody ever knew me and just knew my brother I figured the hell with them! I really will be a nobody!

btw...I got your friend obito's eye 

Kakashi=you bastard


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## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

WSJ cover pic is out.i wonder if it means we;ll get the scans soon.


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

Come on Elevens, show us that MS design already.


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## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

vered reupload the pic to imgur.


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## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

son_michael said:


> regardless of our opinions. Izuna reveal doe snot make sense at all. if madara was there, i could see it happening. However kakashi and Naruto would have no clue who the hell he is and that would make the reveal menaingless
> 
> *mask falls off*
> 
> ...



He always intended to pretend to be Madara. He obviously needed a mask to make it believable. Otherwise, Tenten says she is Hashirama and Madara surrender and the world is saved.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 11, 2012)

Wow first time a Telegrams thread reach the new limit...

Perhaps Tobi was like searching for his identity, you know with him potentially being a Madara-Zetsu hybrid, and came upon the grave of the one that used or could've been him and mourned the death of his old past life?

Yeah kinda cheesy, but I gotta think outside the box this time.


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## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Is it anything interesting first of all?

Or just the usual cover?


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## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Damn, those Evil spoilers are making me nervous...


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## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

ok i uploaded it with imgur.
again its not the chapter just the WSJ cover.


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## son_michael (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> He always intended to pretend to be Madara. He obviously needed a mask to make it believable. Otherwise, Tenten says she is Hashirama and Madara surrender and the world is saved.



he's wore the mask far too long after everybody already knows he's not madara. there's no point in hiding his face anymore.


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## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

The link is working now.

It's your average WSJ issue cover. It's not interesting.


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## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

son_michael said:


> regardless of our opinions. Izuna reveal does not make sense at all. if madara was there, i could see it happening. However kakashi and Naruto would have no clue who the hell he is and that would make the reveal menaingless
> 
> *mask falls off*
> 
> ...


he is there to reveal that he got something from obito , if not, we would never discover that he has it...

also, kishi had to troll us, right?


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## Amaterasu794 (Aug 11, 2012)

So it's just Madara, tobi and Naruto kicking through the air.

Lol, haven't you guys seen a baby rhino before.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 11, 2012)

Nope that link to the WSJ cover is not working.

Can anyone that can see it describe it? Like which character from Shounen Jump is featured. Naruto? Luffy? etc. You know what I mean.


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## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

son_michael said:


> this is shounen.....that's what these manga's are. If tobi is obito then he has to be redeemed, kakashi/naruto is not going to kill him, he's going to save him.


and that's a good reason why Tobi should not be Obito. Kishimoto will have a hard time portraying Tobi as the good kid turned bad. This guy has been pure evil on several occasions.

Not only did he cause the death of Naruto's parents, he also threatened to kill him as a baby. A redemption after all that would be a travesty. Even Naruto isn't that dumb.


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## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

madara, naruto and tobi on the cover huh


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## Amaterasu794 (Aug 11, 2012)

Yeah guys. It's nothing to get excited over. I saw it. It's Madara, Tobi, and Naruto.


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## Menacing Eyes (Aug 11, 2012)

I got it, like Jeanne says, Naruto Tobi and Madara.


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## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

_Always_ rehost images before posting them to the spoiler thread.  I'm pretty sure I've gone over this.   Maybe I should just add it to the rules.


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## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

What did they upload the cover for?

I doubt they have the issue. They just found the cover somewhere, explains the low quality.


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## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

madara looks quite good with rinnegan on , im not a big fan of rinnegan's design but it actually looks good with black hair


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## son_michael (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> and that's a good reason why Tobi should not be Obito. Kishimoto will have a hard time portraying Tobi as the good kid turned bad. This guy has been pure evil on several occasions.
> 
> Not only did he cause the death of Naruto's parents, he also threatened to kill him as a baby. A redemption after all that would be a travesty. Even Naruto isn't that dumb.



oh I bet he is. Breaking the chains of hatred and all that


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## Deadway (Aug 11, 2012)

What if

what if

Tobi is actually Obito.

I'd be fine. Infact, I'd love that, would make everything interesting.


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## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Deadway said:


> What if
> 
> what if
> 
> ...



And not make sense.


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## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> madara looks quite good with rinnegan on , im not a big fan of rinnegan's design but it actually looks good with black hair




don't forget that fucking hair.


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## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Yeah, it doesn't looks like a scanned cover or a photographed cover, but rather a preview pic taken from some site. I doubt it means anything for us.


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## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

You know the best thing I like about Madara, for some reason. It's the gloves >_>

It's like his a Hitman with those gloves. Like a dangerous mofo.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 11, 2012)

Menacing Eyes said:


> I got it, like Jeanne says, Naruto Tobi and Madara.



Looks good.

Seeing it makes me feel that we might get the chapter soon after all.


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## geG (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> What did they upload the cover for?
> 
> I doubt they have the issue. They just found the cover somewhere, explains the low quality.



It's probably from WSJ's website or something. If it were someone with the actual Jump, it would be like a photo rather than a small scan like that


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## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

So who does actually send these pics of the covers?
The guys who's printing Jump?


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## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

yeah, the scan is too small, dont get your hopes up


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## Harbour (Aug 11, 2012)

Epic cover of WSJ.
Btw the faces of Madara and Tobi on it for me means brother hints. Just like this:


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## Deadway (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> And not make sense.



Why wouldn't it make sense.


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## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> madara looks quite good with rinnegan on , im not a big fan of rinnegan's design but it actually looks good with black hair



the Rinnegan looked the best it ever had with Madara.see my sig below


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## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

Geg said:


> It's probably from WSJ's website or something. If it were someone with the actual Jump, it would be like a photo rather than a small scan like that



True, don't get your hopes up, this is the most likely reason~


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## SaiST (Aug 11, 2012)

son_michael said:


> he's wore the mask far too long after everybody already knows he's not madara. there's no point in hiding his face anymore.


There's no real need for him to just take it off the moment he was outed as a fake either.

And just because Izuna has no prior meeting/relationship with either of the protagonists currently there(besides Kurama, maybe), doesn't mean he wouldn't be unknown to any of them—Kakashi in particular. Madara, and the rest of the Allied Shinobi Forces(that should have some old heads and/or history buffs) are also on their way to that position, or soon to be.

You guys have this _"ideal"_ unmasking envisioned in your heads, filled with all of this interpersonal drama. It doesn't necessarily have to be that way.


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## son_michael (Aug 11, 2012)

Harbour said:


> Epic cover of WSJ.
> Btw the faces of Madara and Tobi on it for me means brother hints. Just like this:



no...it just means that Naruto the hero has 2 villains he needs to worry about.


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## TNPS1984 (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> the Rinnegan looked the best it ever had with Madara.see my sig below



Madara share some keen facial resemblance with Nagato. I wonder why


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## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Aug 11, 2012)

son_michael said:


> no...it just means that Naruto the hero has 2 villains he needs to worry about.



Just two? What about sauce and oro?


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## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

It's a meaningless cover.

Madara & Tobi know each other, that is all.


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## TNPS1984 (Aug 11, 2012)

Jayaraman MinatoItachi said:


> Just two? What about sauce and oro?



Sauce changed and Oro's weak at the moment.


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## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

Man, Naruto. All I can say is for a Dead Clan, they sure make a fucking mess out of things.


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## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> It's a meaningless cover.
> 
> Madara & Tobi know each other, that is all.



That or they are just the only two villains who are currently fighting.


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## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Cover Naruto looks pretty cool for once.


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## calimike (Aug 11, 2012)

My friend  translated 





> *"get in Ninkai battle!"*


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## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

ninkai ? as in ninja bankai ?


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## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

calimike said:


> My friend  translated



lol, is that Madara at the bottom? His Rinnegan looks a little lighter than usual - from what I can make out. Pretty awesome.


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## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Aug 11, 2012)

calimike said:


> My friend  translated



Is it a title for next chater is "get in ninkai battle"?


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## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> lol, is that Madara at the bottom? His Rinnegan looks a little lighter than usual - from what I can make out. Pretty awesome.



And for some reason Naruto's Rasengan is blue again. I'm pretty sure Kishi doesn't color these covers.


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## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

TNPS1984 said:


> Madara share some keen facial resemblance with Nagato. I wonder why



Because their hair shapes their face like that, other than that they don't look alike.


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## Fin Du Monde (Aug 11, 2012)

My eyes won't stop playin' tricks on me. I can't help but picture the tips of Madara's fingers as a piece of facial hair.


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## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

JuubiSage said:


> And for some reason Naruto's Rasengan is blue again. I'm pretty sure Kishi doesn't color these covers.



lol, good point. I forgot about that.


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## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Cover Naruto looks pretty cool for once.



Look at his face, he looks constipated.


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## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> Look at his face, he looks constipated.



Magnificent.


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## Deadway (Aug 11, 2012)

I have a bad feeling this will be a chapter which revolves around Kakashi explaining how Tobi's jutsu works....Gai needs to go into the 8th gate already and end this.


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## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 11, 2012)

JuubiSage said:


> And for some reason Naruto's Rasengan is blue again. I'm pretty sure Kishi doesn't color these covers.


Kishi has done both colors.
One of the artbooks, IIRC, has an interview with him saying that while he meant for the _Rasengan_ to yellow, he did like the anime's choice in making it blue.


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## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

I also wonder how both techniques are just 1, going transparant and S/T sucking in.


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## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Deadway said:


> I have a bad feeling this will be a chapter which revolves around Kakashi explaining how Tobi's jutsu works....Gai needs to go into the 8th gate already and end this.



Don't we all?

Now Gai using the 8 gates is what I like to hear. Would be nice to see him die - if I'm lucky, Kishi will forgo the chapter long flashback.


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## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

How would you guys feel if in the end Tobi is something that goes way beyond what we think...

like some kind of creature or spirit unsealed by madara?



Klue said:


> Don't we all?
> 
> Now Gai using the 8 gates is what I like to hear. Would be nice to see him die - if I'm lucky, Kishi will forgo the chapter long flashback.



thats mean 

i like gai


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## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

Deadway said:


> I have a bad feeling this will be a chapter which revolves around Kakashi explaining how Tobi's jutsu works....Gai needs to go into the 8th gate already and end this.



It shouldn't really need more than a page for Kakashi to explain how Tobi's jutsu work as the concept behind it is pretty simple. 

Yes, Gai does need to use all eight gates.


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## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

What do you guys think Zetsu being connected to the Juubi?
Last chapter Gedou Mazou seemed also have these underground Zetsu roots.


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## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> How would you guys feel if in the end Tobi is something that goes way beyond what we think...
> 
> like some kind of creature or spirit unsealed by madara?



Post a response gif, of someone throwing their hands up in rage after witnessing something not to their liking.


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## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi is exactly what we think.

It's not some unlikely impossibilistic scenario.


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## Hossaim (Aug 11, 2012)

I saw the cover issue spoiler.

Are we getting the issue tonight?

Or is it still the long wait to wednesday


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## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> the Rinnegan looked the best it ever had with Madara.see my sig below



Indeed, and who would have thought?


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## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Nobody knows Hossaim.

Could be tonight, tomorrow, monday, or wednesday.


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## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Post a response gif, of someone throwing their hands up in rage after witnessing something not to their liking.


what if its something that was sealed by rikudou in the past and knew him


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## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> what if its something that was sealed by rikudou in the past and knew him



lol, like Juubi's son?


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## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> lol, like Juubi's son?



you know, perhaps Juubi has its counterpart


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## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Evil should be more clear now.

The game's over.

He had his fun. Now it's time to come to terms.

He could have posted what he posted today on Wednesday. But no, he waited to this day, for no apparent reason.


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## Menacing Eyes (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> How would you guys feel if in the end Tobi is something that goes way beyond what we think...
> 
> like some kind of creature or spirit unsealed by madara?


Not sure, to be honest. The way things are going, it seems like Madara is the one who is the one in charge here, and I don't really like the idea of an ancient evil working under him. I think if anything it would be the other way around.


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## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> Nobody knows Hossaim.
> 
> Could be tonight, tomorrow, monday, or wednesday.



Scans are not gonna be tonight. Late tomorrow maybe.


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## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> thats mean
> 
> i like gai



Come on, it'll be pretty awesome to see Gai die.

Heroic death is always cool.


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## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

btw, i am asking this because Tobi's character shares a similarity with Amatsu Mikaboshi...and if Kishi dared to introduce Daidara bocchi as the origin of everything, he could also introduce what represents the void/nothing, primordial darkness...




Klue said:


> Come on, it'll be pretty awesome to see Gai die.
> 
> Heroic death is always cool.



>.> well


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## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

So the chapter is about how Tobi got his eye?

How riveting.


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi, despite how characters have described him, does not strike me as a literal embodiment of darkness.

He clearly has a personal side that is shown from time to time.


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## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Evil's last clue makes me really think that Kakashi is going to die.


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## KevKev (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Evil's last clue makes me really think that Kakashi is going to die.



Oh so I wasn't the only one...


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## auem (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Come on, it'll be pretty awesome to see Gai die.
> 
> Heroic death is always cool.



now that a whole spin-off series exist about Lee and Gui,i don't think they will be killed off with 8th gate....won't go too well with SD fans...


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## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> So the chapter is about how Tobi got his eye?
> 
> How riveting.



One less thing for our forum to debate.

I'm not mad.


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## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

naijaboykev28 said:


> Oh so I wasn't the only one...


The first thing i thought was that both Tobi and Kakashi awakened their MS at the same time like that, but the clue might also hint Kakashi dying which i dont hope.


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

I just want to know if Tobi's laughing at Kakashi's misery or crying along with him.


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## daschysta (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Evil's last clue makes me really think that Kakashi is going to die.



It is much more likely to be indicating Gai's death. Kakashi is mourning in that picture, in no way does it indicate his own death.


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## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> I just want to know if Tobi's laughing at Kakashi's misery or crying along with him.


Isnt he clearly crying with his one arm on his eyes?



daschysta said:


> It is much more likely to be indicating Gai's  death. Kakashi is mourning in that picture, in no way does it indicate  his own death.


Well a good way for Kakashi to rage break that mask.


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Isnt he clearly crying with his one arm on his eyes?



Crying from laughing so hard?


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## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Crying from laughing so hard?


Hes clearly in a cry pose. 
But anyways it also makes sense that Gai might have died.
These clues are annoyed arent they.


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Hes clearly in a cry pose.



Man I don't know, it looks like he could just as easily be keeled over from laughing so much.


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## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

The pose is from the Sasuke vs. Deidara fight.  It's sort of "mock crying", so it's a mix of both.


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## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Aug 11, 2012)

Well I don't prefer gai's death by sucked up into tobi's dimension. I want eighth gate.


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## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> One less thing for our forum to debate.
> 
> I'm not mad.


I know.

I still hope there is more to the chapter other than Where Tobi Got His Eye.





Hexa said:


> The pose is from the Sasuke vs. Deidara fight.  It's sort of "mock crying", so it's a mix of both.


Deidara-sempai! I knew he would die in an explosion!


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## Amaterasu794 (Aug 11, 2012)

Oh! I hadn't even realized Evil had been posting again. Interesting.

Btw, did Kakashi ever mention "living a life of regret" to Obito. Perhaps at his grave maybe, which could be the clue here. As far as mentioning it in person, I can't remember.

I only recall him saying it to Sasuke.


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## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

If Gai really dies i can see such a scene happening; Tobi does the same thing as Kakashi to reverse Kamui, so when Kakashi Kamui's Tobi can throw out the items in his dimension at the same speed out, so Gai's weapon might be thrown back at Gai with some super speed.
But i wonder if that will be hard enough to kill him lol.


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## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

So Evil...

I hear mobile phones these days come with cameras. 





loool3 said:


> If Gai really dies i can see such a scene happening; Tobi does the same thing as Kakashi to reverse Kamui, so when Kakashi Kamui's Tobi can throw out the items in his dimension at the same speed out, so Gai's weapon might be thrown back at Gai with some super speed.
> But i wonder if that will be hard enough to kill him lol.


Nothing can kill Gai. Because Gai can't Dai.


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## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> So Evil...
> 
> I hear mobile phones these days come with cameras.
> 
> ...


I hope so, but Uchiha> your favourite character.


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> If Gai really dies i can see such a scene happening; Tobi does the same thing as Kakashi to reverse Kamui, so when Kakashi Kamui's Tobi can throw out the items in his dimension at the same speed out, so Gai's weapon might be thrown back at Gai with some super speed.
> But i wonder if that will be hard enough to kill him lol.



Maybe capturing Gai prevents Kakashi from carelessly using Kamui against him as he has been thus far, for fear that it could be Gai that gets hit by some crazy dangerous attack out of absolutely nowhere.


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## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

You guys are going to make me break down. Stop this talk about Gai dieing  I don't think I have the heart to handle that much stress.


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## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Jad said:


> You guys are going to make me break down. Stop this talk about Gai dieing  I don't think I have the heart to handle that much stress.


We might talk about each others death as well, since someone is going to die here one day of this much preassure for an unreleased chapter.


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## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Tobi, despite how characters have described him, does not strike me as a literal embodiment of darkness.
> 
> He clearly has a personal side that is shown from time to time.


yeah, though it would put Tobi in a really distinct place. He already shares the traits, Mikaboshi only manifests in a spirit-like form with a mask...i would not be surprised if at least his MS jutsu is named Amatsu Mikaboshi, because its just so obvious.


And kishi seems to take the darkness issue seriously, so the mikaboshi reference seems to be there somewhere...see how the bijuus seem to have been influenced by all the hatred in the shinobi world...



> From what can be gleaned and pieced together from ancient Japanese myths, the Mikaboshi is not a physical god in the sense like Amaterasu or Susanoo, but a dark Force that existed before the universe, reigning alone in absolute darkness and control.
> Something happened, however, and in one brief instance the iron control of the Dark Force of the Mikaboshi was shattered by the movement of In and Yo, which brought forth the Universe and the active chaos of life and movement, which later became the gods and humanity.
> *
> The solidity of the Primordial Darkness had been destroyed, but its residue still lingered on in the hearts of all beings and is allegedly the cause of human passions.*


its most likely not Tobi, but i have the impression that kishi will still bring this up, since the true enemy here is the cycle of hatred and darkness of the shinobi world . I always thought that it was about Juubi, but now i am not sure.


Tobi's goal is quite suspicious though...


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## Mike N Nike0 (Aug 11, 2012)

Whoever gets the Flashback this chapter dies first!

But every MS is distinctive in appearance. We haven't seen Tobi's at all, and now we know that his entire jutsu of warping to the same dimension as Kamui is his MS. Maybe we haven't seen it yet because it's the same as "Kakashi's" >

Kishi will eliminate a theory and everyone will flock to another. Obito>Izuna>Kagami>SO6P son>Fucking Woman>Future person


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## Sci-Fi (Aug 11, 2012)

Maybe Kishi will explain how Kakashi got MS...if Tobi really is using Obito eye. Could be linked in some way or Uchiha eyes can be manipulated to obtain/activate hgher levels w/o having to fulfill the previous known requirements.


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## ironblade_x1 (Aug 11, 2012)

So is Kakashi's Mangekyou just an assumed part of the plot now? No one cares how he actually got it?

Kishi gets away with just sticking that in there?


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## son_michael (Aug 11, 2012)

ironblade_x1 said:


> So is Kakashi's Mangekyou just an assumed part of the plot now? No one cares how he actually got it?
> 
> Kishi gets away with just sticking that in there?



obviously he's going to use tobi to explain it.


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

ironblade_x1 said:


> So is Kakashi's Mangekyou just an assumed part of the plot now? No one cares how he actually got it?
> 
> Kishi gets away with just sticking that in there?



Supposedly he's going to explain that soon.

If Tobi really does have Obito's other eye, perhaps that will be the catalyst to finally provide an explanation.


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

wow, that's a new one.  a MS that doesn't go blind.  Constantly spamming the supposed space time jutsu of the supposed obito MS for nearly 16 years and it still isn't blind.  but wait, if it awakened the same time (both eyes), then kakashi must have had MS all along since he was 14 during the kyuubi attack (when he supposedly still only had two tomoes)......


----------



## Voodoo chile (Aug 11, 2012)

Is that last Evil spoiler from a scene where Kakashi mourns for Obito or does he mourn for Rin?


----------



## Hurricanes (Aug 11, 2012)

I think it's going to be the end of the road for both kakashi and Gai after discovering Tobi, although they are fan favorites it might happen


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

Voodoo chile said:


> Is that last Evil spoiler from a scene where Kakashi mourns for Obito or does he mourn for Rin?



He never mourned for Rin, we didn't even know for sure that she was dead until recently.


----------



## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Aug 11, 2012)

Voodoo chile said:


> Is that last Evil spoiler from a scene where Kakashi mourns for Obito or does he mourn for Rin?



yeah. He mourns for obito.


----------



## Shattering (Aug 11, 2012)

Kakashi dieing would be too good to be true, Kishi doesn't have the balls...


----------



## Wiseman Deathphantom (Aug 11, 2012)

Probably no one will die anymore in this manga, except for some villains. Remember, the author said in the latest interview that he thinks of secondary school students when he draws his manga.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Why is there tobi on the panels evil's posted with kakashi? 

Is that photoshoped stuff?


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> Why is there tobi on the panels evil's posted with kakashi?
> 
> Is that photoshoped stuff?



The spoiler image?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's shopped.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> The spoiler image?
> 
> Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's shopped.



Evil's art of fuck up our nerves...

Dat Evil!


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Shattering said:


> Kakashi dieing would be too good to be true, Kishi doesn't have the balls...


We've been through that before in the Pain Arc.

No thanks.


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

Shattering said:


> Kakashi dieing would be too good to be true, Kishi doesn't have the balls...



He'd just get brought back to life with some bullshit like in the Pain arc


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 11, 2012)

just woke up

did Evil give any new clues ? I've seen the pics with the animals and the eye and Oro-Obito etc.

anything new ? 

chapter coming out today ?


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> just woke up
> 
> did Evil give any new clues ? I've seen the pics with the animals and the eye and Oro-Obito etc.
> 
> ...


There's a pic where Kakashi mourns for Obito, with Tobi from the Deidara arc shopped on to it.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> just woke up
> 
> did Evil give any new clues ? I've seen the pics with the animals and the eye and Oro-Obito etc.
> 
> ...



here the 2 last hints he gave us:


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

What if that ring meant that there is an eye in each ring. Kind of like the tomoes on the Juubi.

/randomthought


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> What if that ring meant that there is an eye in each ring. Kind of like the tomoes on the Juubi.
> 
> /randomthought



Makes no sense.


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> Makes no sense.


I mean like each ring is linked to the eye of the Juubi.

Sorry.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

Honestly I'm surprised no one thought to make an edit like that one, especially after we found out Tobi collects eyes.


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> I mean like each ring is linked to the eye of the Juubi.
> 
> Sorry.



Yeah but I do not see the point really


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> Yeah but I do not see the point really


Well the pics Evil posts are vague, sooooo...... Tobi flicking an eyeball instead of a ring could mean anything?


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2012)

There are still secrets of the sharingacn left. its quite possible tobi doesnt have mangekyo.mangrkyo when you look at it takes uchiha powes to the next level. genjutsu evolves into tsukyomi. flame control morphs into kagetsuchi and amatersau. perhaps 3 tomoe is capable of hax spacetime jutsy. that evolves into kamui. even copying jutdu gets applified into using all jutsu when it progresses to rinnegan. seeing how 3 tomoe is capable of such hax jitsu that can warp reality such asizanagi and izanami. it isnt all that farfatched. i think we will find out that tobi jutsu is merely spacetime from his 3 tomoe


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> just woke up
> 
> did Evil give any new clues ? I've seen the pics with the animals and the eye and Oro-Obito etc.
> 
> ...



You aren't seeing a chapter till about Tuesday, I'm afraid. I'm not getting any indication at all that anything is coming soon.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 11, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> You aren't seeing a chapter till about Tuesday, I'm afraid. I'm not getting any indication at all that anything is coming soon.


is Evil mind-reading Kishi ?


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Oh cool, Ohana posted.

[sp=ggl trans]Tobiobito like.

Kamui and the Scarecrow, when the kite has led space.

Where did you get that eye Kakashi?
I heard that.


Oh oh. ~ ~ ~ ~ Will happen



Into exile'm like a movie do.
Cartoon funny picture



From childhood Naruto, Naruto Kyuubi Yo's picture is running[/sp]


----------



## Agony (Aug 11, 2012)

are we getting the chapter today?


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Agony said:


> are we getting the chapter today?


Chapters tend to come out about three to six hours after Ohana posts.

So yes.



Tobi is interested in Kakashi's eye. It took him long enough.


----------



## Menacing Eyes (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> Oh cool, Ohana posted.
> 
> [sp=ggl trans]Tobiobito like.
> 
> ...


I see funny picture, and then something about the eye...Evil did say when we saw the panel we'd be laughing... *shrug*


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

I hope takl is online so he could translate the spoilers.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> is Evil mind-reading Kishi ?



Nope, just looking at spoiler pics on a Japanese forum. However, there seems to be very little indication that the entire chapter is on the way anytime sooner than Tuesday. It always feels this way when we aren't going to get anything till much later than anticipated.

I'm not even the least bit convinced by the fact that Ohana is now saying something apparently.


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2012)

So i guess ohana posting means......CHAPTER TODAY. probably going


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Correction: that's actually Kakashi asking Tobi where Tobi got that eye.

Kakashi is quickly working things out again I see.




> カカシのカムイと、トビの時空間がつながってる。


Kakashi has Kamui, Tobi has space-time?


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

It could mean that Tobi's Sauron that lost his ring. 

It would explain alot of things: 

He needs his eye of the moon plan to find back his ring in order to recover his prime strenght

That's why he recruted some nazguls to form akatsuki.... 

But Frodoruto, LeGailas and Kakaragorn are on his way... 

So, in a corner, SauronTobi try to summon the Balrog Rigandalf Senin sealed away long time ago... 



(and Oro is Gollom.)


----------



## La buse (Aug 11, 2012)

So Tobi is Obito after all...


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Spoiler's out Folks


----------



## Recal (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> Spoiler out Folks



Just in time. 

Let's see if anything earth-shattering is revealed...


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Seems The mask is crushed by the end.

And Naruto seems to use some new skills using Kyuubi mode...

Seems Great chapter after all...


----------



## Gilgamesh (Aug 11, 2012)

Naruto and Jiraiya flashback too


----------



## Bart (Aug 11, 2012)

Ooooooooo ;O


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Kurama speaking.


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> I mean like each ring is linked to the eye of the Juubi.
> 
> Sorry.



actually,  i too thought that


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Gilgamesh said:


> Naruto and Jiraiya flashback too



Jman....


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 11, 2012)

inb4Itachivsjiraiyathreads pop up


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

I didn't get much from the spoiler but it can't be too bad If we see Kumara and a Jiraya flashback.


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> *Seems The mask is crushed by the end.*
> 
> And Naruto seems to use some new skills using Kyuubi mode...
> 
> Seems Great chapter after all...



Wha.. really?

Finally


----------



## Menacing Eyes (Aug 11, 2012)

If only I could actually read the spoilers rather than relying on broken english. From what I can make out though it's pretty interesting.


----------



## ZetsuusteZ (Aug 11, 2012)

This chapter pleases me


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

bye bye mask. Nice knowing ya...


...unless there's another mask underneath.


----------



## Recal (Aug 11, 2012)

Oh man, I miss Jiraiya.  It'll be nice to see him again for a bit.


(And the mask is crushed? )


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2012)

La buse said:


> So Tobi is Obito after all...



No no no no no no no No NOOOOOOO. I WILL never accept this.


----------



## sagroth (Aug 11, 2012)

Jiraiya flashback and new Kyuubi skills...

Might we finally see "that jutsu"?!

Omgomgomgomgomg


----------



## Shattering (Aug 11, 2012)

Inb4 time-travel jutsus to explain the Tobi = Obito...


----------



## GoDMasteR (Aug 11, 2012)

flashback about yondaime too


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> Wha.. really?
> 
> Finally



We must wait for a better trans, but from google (in french), the last words could mean it, yes. (and I don' know what it could means if it's not that...)


----------



## La buse (Aug 11, 2012)

flashback about Iruka


----------



## Recal (Aug 11, 2012)

I swear if the mask is crushed and the chapter ends on a cliff-hanger without us seeing Tobi's face, I will track down Kishi and call him a fucking mask-tease. To his _face_.


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

If the mask is shattered, it's probably gonna be a cliffhanger. 

Kishi's predictable that way.


----------



## Lurker909 (Aug 11, 2012)

Recalcitrant Funkasaur said:


> I swear if the mask is crushed and the chapter ends on a cliff-hanger without us seeing Tobi's face, I will track down Kishi and call him a fucking mask-tease. To his _face_.


_DO IT._
And record it on video.
I would pay actual money to see this.


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

Recalcitrant Funkasaur said:


> I swear if the mask is crushed and the chapter ends on a cliff-hanger without us seeing Tobi's face, I will track down Kishi and call him a fucking mask-tease. To his _face_.



And he would just laugh at you and all other readers.Kishi loves teasing us,this is not going to change.


----------



## La buse (Aug 11, 2012)

TOBI IS OBITOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jacamo (Aug 11, 2012)

so we get jutsu explanations and flashbacks

we getting any more revelations aside from that?


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

Google trans is a clusterfuck. 

It says something about Darth Vader and a Scarecrow...


----------



## Ryan (Aug 11, 2012)

Scarecrow = Kakashi

also, kakashi tells tobi to shut up when he is about to reveal something, wtf


----------



## ZetsuusteZ (Aug 11, 2012)

If the mask is crushed, we'll just see something similar to what we did when it was crushed against Konan, it'll be blacked out and we'll just see the glow of his eyes.
And then NEXT WEEK THE BIG REVEAL


----------



## TasteTheDifference (Aug 11, 2012)

Kakashi = Scarecrow


----------



## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Aug 11, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> Google trans is a clusterfuck.
> 
> It says something about Darth Vader and a Scarecrow...



I agree with you on this.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

La buse said:


> TOBI IS OBITOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I did see Obito mentioned in Ohana's reply. Not sure if she's confirming or denying.

but if true...


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

tobi is obito? 


Klue is gonna be so pissssssssssssssssssssssssed


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

Ryan said:


> Scarecrow = Kakashi
> 
> also, kakashi tells tobi to shut up when he is about to reveal something, wtf



Oh okay. Then why the hell is Darth Vader in there?


----------



## Menacing Eyes (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> I did see Obito mentioned in Ohana's reply. Not sure if she's confirming or denying.
> 
> but if true...


Looks like she's jumping to conclusions since I didn't see Obito's name in google translate for her script spoiler, but apparently the chapter hints towards Obito even more.


----------



## Nagato Sennin (Aug 11, 2012)

Aww yeahhhhhhhhh!!!


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

Pleace no.Tobi shouldn't be Obito


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 11, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> Oh okay. Then why the hell is Darth Vader in there?


If you're using Google trans, isolate which characters are being translated as that.


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

Can anyone make any sense of the google translation?


----------



## Bart (Aug 11, 2012)

Darth Vader is the Scarecrow


----------



## La buse (Aug 11, 2012)

lol @ Kishi thinking he is going to surprise everyone making Tobi = Obito


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

JuubiSage said:


> Can anyone make any sense of the google translation?



I got Kakashi and Guy discussing the space-time jutsu and Kakashi saying something about breaking it or something.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 11, 2012)

So it seems we get some new kyuubi jutsu, Minato talk, and Jiraiya flashbacks. Seems like a good chapter


----------



## griaule (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi is obviously Darth Vader, and he is Kakashi's father.


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> If you're using Google trans, isolate which characters are being translated as that.



I believe it's these.



> ガイ 分析にかけてはお前の右に出る奴はいないな 簡単にでも奴の術の説明を頼む 術のことを知っておくの と知らないのでは闘い方も変わる カカシ ?術のネタは本当に簡単だ? いいか? 597 時空間忍術の秘密 術の真実?！


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Menacing Eyes said:


> *Looks like she's jumping to conclusions* since I didn't see Obito's name in google translate for her script spoiler, but apparently the chapter hints towards Obito even more.


Yeah, I hope that's the case. To be honest, it's not hard to jump to conclusions after all these hints. I think Kishi's pulling a fast one.


----------



## Lurker909 (Aug 11, 2012)

La buse said:


> lol @ Kishi thinking he is going to surprise everyone making Tobi = Obito


Yep, just like how he surprised everyone with Naruto being the 4th Hokage's son.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 11, 2012)

the only thing about Obito in this chapter is that it *hints *that Tobi has his eye... or at least has a very similar MS jutsu, if not identical

i still see plotholes with Tobi = Obito (aside from time travel explanation)

but if its true


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 11, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> I believe it's these.


Hover your cursor over 'Darth Vader' in the translation and copy'n'paste what characters are highlighted yellow.

None of those seem to contain 'Darth Vader.'


----------



## sagroth (Aug 11, 2012)

What is the new Kyuubi jutsu?


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

whats going on at the end with the kyubii power?


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

sagroth said:


> What is the new Kyuubi jutsu?


Kyuubi Cooperative Mode, or KCM.


----------



## Lurker909 (Aug 11, 2012)

jacamo said:


> the only thing about Obito in this chapter is that it *hints *that Tobi has his eye... or at least has a very similar MS jutsu, if not identical
> 
> i still see plotholes with Tobi = Obito (aside from time travel explanation)
> 
> but if its true


Clearly, Tobito is a time lord.
I don't normally play the time lord card, but it's the only thing that makes _sense_ at this point.

If Kishi overlooks the timeline inconsistencies:


----------



## Ryan (Aug 11, 2012)

JuubiSage said:


> Can anyone make any sense of the google translation?


Kakashi talks about Kamui, Tobi, the whole incident with his mask getting scratched, etc. how it's connected to Tobi's space time jutsu - can't tell how to be honest, too much details, probably half of the chapter is spent on this shit. 

Then tobi is about to reveal something about kakashi or whatever, or he realizes something, but kakashi tells him to shut up. That's probably the most interesting exchange in this chapter. 

The rest is flashbacks and naruto entering kyuubi mode.


----------



## Saizo sarutobi (Aug 11, 2012)

Seems like a chapter full of talking about Tobi's jutsu,some flashbacks,and Naruto-Kurama talk..thats what we've been waiting for?damn u Kishi ;-(


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> Hover your cursor over 'Darth Vader' in the translation and copy'n'paste what characters are highlighted yellow.
> 
> None of those seem to contain 'Darth Vader.'



That's what I though I did. It highlighted a portion of the text, part of which contained those words. 

I don't know, it's probably another fluke.


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

i think naruto awakens a new kyubii power at the end?


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

sagroth said:


> What is the new Kyuubi jutsu?





vered said:


> whats going on at the end with the kyubii power?



Could this actually be THE "that jutsu"? Maybe?


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

So, basically,

-Kakashi explain how they hit tobi with Kamui. (Tobi and Kakashi's jutsu share the same dimension)
-They talk about Kakashi's sharingan and how he got it (something like dat)
-Naruto remember Jman and Minato's last word (they trust him, he can do it -yes you can-, the jutsu used by the 4th to seal a part of his chakra)
-naruto and Kyuubi stuff
-Naruto is about to use a new "jutsu"/"mastering" of the Kyuubi, something about eagle style jutsu

Seems good to me..


----------



## Saunion (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> i think naruto awakens a new kyubii power at the end?



Maybe "that jutsu"?


----------



## griaule (Aug 11, 2012)

I can read Japanese alright, but I understand not nearly as much. I know for a fact that this from Ohana's spoiler: 
"オビトじゃない"
says "not Obito"
but I'm unsure about the rest of it.


----------



## Recal (Aug 11, 2012)

Ryan said:


> Kakashi talks about Kamui, Tobi, the whole incident with his mask getting scratched, etc. how it's connected to Tobi's space time jutsu - can't tell how to be honest, too much details, probably half of the chapter is spent on this shit.
> 
> *Then tobi is about to reveal something about kakashi or whatever, or he realizes something, but kakashi tells him to shut up.* That's probably the most interesting exchange in this chapter.
> 
> The rest is flashbacks and naruto entering kyuubi mode.



FFS, Kakashi...


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

> mask in *Syria *have strip on the right, the


tobi is bashar al assad


----------



## WT (Aug 11, 2012)

Hey Dragonus, can you delete the Google translated spoiler post in the spoiler thread?


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> So, basically,
> 
> -Kakashi explain how they hit tobi with Kamui. (Tobi and Kakashi's jutsu share the same dimension)
> -They talk about Kakashi's sharingan and how he got it (something like dat)
> ...



If this is all true... Holy crap, "that jutsu" incoming


----------



## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

Why the fuck doesn't Tobi attack them while they are talking, seriously >_>

You are a villain, attack, attack, attack.


----------



## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

Oh look a pro translator posted in the spoiler thread, it all makes sense now.

 why are people so dumb


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

Jad said:


> Why the fuck doesn't Tobi attack them while they are talking, seriously >_>
> 
> You are a villain, attack, attack, attack.



It's the villain code. You never finish the good guys when they're vulnerable. Also if you have them trapped talk to them instead of killing them.


----------



## Lurker909 (Aug 11, 2012)

griaule said:


> I can read Japanese alright, but I understand not nearly as much. I know for a fact that this from Ohana's spoiler:
> "オビトじゃない"
> says "not Obito"
> but I'm unsure about the rest of it.


If this is true, then I believe I have regained my belief in God.
If not, my atheism has been reaffirmed.

Either way, thank you.


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> So, basically,
> 
> -Kakashi explain how they hit tobi with Kamui. (Tobi and Kakashi's jutsu share the same dimension)
> -They talk about Kakashi's sharingan and how he got it (something like dat)
> ...



could we finally see that jutsu?


----------



## Recal (Aug 11, 2012)

> Everyone is time and space Beaverton historical moment somehow connected when I like! ?



Oh my god... it all makes sense now.  Imma need to rush off to prepare my epic Telegrams thread on the Beaverton Historical Monument.


----------



## Mayaki (Aug 11, 2012)

What? Eagle? So Naruto waves the US-Flag and starts some Captain America shit? Anyway I am sooo excited for the new chapter.


----------



## Lurker909 (Aug 11, 2012)

Jad said:


> Why the fuck doesn't Tobi attack them while they are talking, seriously >_>
> 
> You are a villain, attack, attack, attack.


Talking is a free action.


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

I am curious what kind of jutsu that is  Eagle style jutsu sounds interesting.


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Aug 11, 2012)

"That Jutsu" is finally coming?

Yes, let's do this.


----------



## Monna (Aug 11, 2012)

Why are google translations allowed in the spoiler thread?


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

insane111 said:


> Oh look a pro translator posted in the spoiler thread, it all makes sense now.
> 
> why are people so dumb





Everything's clear now 

/topic

Does the word eagle have another meaning in japanese?


----------



## Bart (Aug 11, 2012)

Jad said:


> Why the fuck doesn't Tobi attack them while they are talking, seriously >_>
> 
> You are a villain, attack, attack, attack.



I know right? ;D

They always do it in lets say James Bond where the villain gives a monologue of their entire plan; I mean just kill him!!


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

Jane Crocker said:


> Why are google translations allowed in the spoiler thread?



They aren't, mods are just slacking.


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

No mask breaking?


----------



## Namikaze Minato Flash (Aug 11, 2012)

I had to go back to Kakashi Gaiden to read back up on Obito's character and I'd be highly disappointed if he turned out to be Tobi based on the strength of his influence over Kakashi after his death. Not only would it be a waste (he's going to "die" twice and become a greater failure than he was before), but Kishimoto would not be doing him justice at all. Obito should just be left in our memories as that one Uchiha who lacked their exceptional trademark for talent, but more than made up for it with his guts and defiance of the status quo (Shinobi rules)...


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

wow...that translation, totally helped...


----------



## R00t_Decision (Aug 11, 2012)

Chapter today! pek

I :  Dragonus Nesha


*Spoiler*: __ 



It's funny how I always look forward to the manga and can't stand the anime.


----------



## Timeshift (Aug 11, 2012)

From the Google Translate, it looks like they talk about the battle of the Sharingan and that Tobi calls Kakashi the hero of said battle? And after that it looks like Kakashi realizes who he is?

I.e. Tobi and Kakashi know each other from whatever battle he refers to?


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

narutored23 said:


> A copy of the Eye Circle you hero and came to be known in the fight to
> scarecrow! !  ... you ...
> *mask said husband! ... *
> do not open the mouth and easily! The man fell and you say the words of what it does not mean value!
> ...



Kishi and his obsession with rivals in love.

Obito understood he wanted Kakashi's ass all along, not Rin's. Classic Kishi is classic.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> No mask breaking?



The lasts mysterious words of the spoiler: "Tsu Butyrate torn! !"

What is "Tsu butraye"?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 11, 2012)

Sorry, my French has gotten rather rusty so translating took longer.

Anyways, as the Spoiler Thread lists: NO robotic translations.


----------



## griaule (Aug 11, 2012)

Lurker909 said:


> If this is true, then I believe I have regained my belief in God.
> If not, my atheism has been reaffirmed.
> 
> Either way, thank you.



My Japanese is broken, but as for the part of that sentence that I quoted, I am 100% sure without a doubt that says "is not Obito"


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

> Mask is committed fluoride



Dude what?


----------



## jacamo (Aug 11, 2012)

Lurker909 said:


> Clearly, Tobito is a time lord.
> I don't normally play the time lord card, but it's the only thing that makes _sense_ at this point.
> 
> If Kishi overlooks the timeline inconsistencies:



so if Tobi = Obito...Kishi will have bullied you into eating cheese?

lol  



griaule said:


> I can read Japanese alright, but I understand not nearly as much. I know for a fact that this from Ohana's spoiler:
> "オビトじゃない"
> says "not Obito"
> but I'm unsure about the rest of it.



SALVATION!!!!!


----------



## Ryan (Aug 11, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> No mask breaking?


It looks like they are talking about Kakashi pre mask, or Kakashi fighting without a mask at some point in the third ninja war.


----------



## Recal (Aug 11, 2012)

> Mask is committed fluoride





Palpatine said:


> Dude what?



Tobi believes in dental hygiene?


----------



## R00t_Decision (Aug 11, 2012)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> Sorry, my* French* has gotten rather rusty so translating took longer.
> 
> Anyways, as the Spoiler Thread lists: NO robotic translations.



I thought you spoke Italian. Why do you lie to your fans.


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

R00t_Decision said:


> Chapter today! pek
> 
> I :  Dragonus Nesha
> 
> ...


your not alone. i don't even watch the anime at all. i am just waiting for the itachi related bits and maybe mizukage. all i watch is rock lee ninja pals which is epic


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

Recalcitrant Funkasaur said:


> Tobi believes in dental hygiene?



So that makes Kakashi a Cavity Creep


----------



## R00t_Decision (Aug 11, 2012)

Addy said:


> your not alone. i don't even watch the anime at all. i am just waiting for the itachi related bits and maybe mizukage. all i watch is rock lee ninja pals which is epic



I try to like the anime, but the producers and studio just make me hate it each time a bit more.


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

im curious to see if the eagle is the translation of taka, perhaps we are about to get a confirmation about what rikudou's power is about


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

R00t_Decision said:


> I try to like the anime, but the producers and studio just make me hate it each time a bit more.



the pacing of it just makes me sleep or the animation is nothing special or the filler sucks  i try not to complain but i CAN'T!!!!!!!!!


----------



## R00t_Decision (Aug 11, 2012)

Addy said:


> the pacing of it just makes me sleep or the animation is nothing special or the filler sucks  i try not to complain but i CAN'T!!!!!!!!!



And it's funny. Essentially every manga issue is like a story that's already been told or one long storyboard. All they have to do is stick to the formula and animate/pretty pictures.
They can't even do that.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 11, 2012)

----------------------------------

it may as well be out... we know all the plot points

if only someone could translate the script


----------



## Kazekage Gaara (Aug 11, 2012)

I wonder if anyone can translate those scripts we got.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

So basically, after Tobito is hinted, Kakashi goes berserk and says Tobi IS NOT Obito, that Obito was a hero and is DEAD then Naruto has flashbacks of Jiraiya and Minato and their expectations of him, and he decide to take over the fight.

Unless I missed misunderstood stuff.


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> So basically, after Tobito is hinted, Kakashi goes berserk and says Tobi IS NOT Obito, that Obito was a hero and is DEAD then Naruto has flashbacks of Jiraiya and Minato and their expectations of him, and he decide to take over the fight.
> 
> Unless I missed misunderstood stuff.


That's correct.

Sprinkle with Kurama helping Naruto, bake for thirty minutes, and leave it to rest for twenty minutes. Serve with a light round of Puzzled Gai.


----------



## GoDMasteR (Aug 11, 2012)

オビトじゃないのかなあ 

Ohana isn't saying that tobi is not Obito... She just said "I hope that he isn't Obito" To me she seems worried about him...


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

GoDMasteR said:


> オビトじゃないのかなあ
> 
> Ohana isn't saying that tobi is not Obito... She just said "I hope that he isn't Obito" To me she seems worried about him...



Uhm... I thought Ohana was ?ber Tobito fangirl.


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

GoDMasteR said:


> オビトじゃないのかなあ
> 
> Ohana isn't saying that tobi is not Obito... She just said "I hope that he isn't Obito" To me she seems worried about him...



 BWAHAHAHHA good good


----------



## Volture (Aug 11, 2012)

White Tiger said:


> I understand your sarcasm but if you realized, my post itself was meant to be sarcastic. Look at earlier posts.


It didn't seem like sarcasm at all. More like your own version of "le epic trollzor".


----------



## Saunion (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> So basically, after Tobito is hinted, Kakashi goes berserk and says Tobi IS NOT Obito, that Obito was a hero and is DEAD then Naruto has flashbacks of Jiraiya and Minato and their expectations of him, and he decide to take over the fight.
> 
> Unless I missed misunderstood stuff.



So there's no "that jutsu" then?


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> So basically, after Tobito is hinted, Kakashi goes berserk and says Tobi IS NOT Obito, that Obito was a hero and is DEAD then Naruto has flashbacks of Jiraiya and Minato and their expectations of him, and he decide to take over the fight.
> 
> Unless I missed misunderstood stuff.



tobito: umad kakashi?


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

so tobi might be Obito?but we dont find the answer this chapter.


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

> (Sat) 2012/08/11 18:52:39.30 ID:: 26: ohana ◆ IR7jauNn4E wGjqHPicP
> 124 >> 125 >> Barre
> Te-free when the Battle of 毘橋 God?
> I wonder not Obito
> ...


Those questions that Ohana answers sure are interesting.


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

we need trans of the last part.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 11, 2012)

R00t_Decision said:


> I thought you spoke Italian. Why do you lie to your fans.


Nada. 


GoDMasteR said:


> オビトじゃないのかなあ
> 
> Ohana isn't saying that tobi is not Obito... She just said "I hope that he isn't Obito" To me she seems worried about him...


Ruh-roh, Raggy!


----------



## griaule (Aug 11, 2012)

GoDMasteR said:


> オビトじゃないのかなあ
> 
> Ohana isn't saying that tobi is not Obito... She just said "I hope that he isn't Obito" To me she seems worried about him...



Hm, yes, that's right.
Tobi janai noka
Still learning.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Saunion said:


> So there's no "that jutsu" then?



In the flashbacks, Naruto remembers that Minato said you needed a special power to take on Tobi. 
Since Naruto decides to take over the fight after remembering that, you can assume Naruto is finally going to show "that jutsu".


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> Those questions that Ohana answers sure are interesting.



Indeed are they! 

So Obito's plot is actually actual?


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

wait so Naruto will finally show "That jutsu"?
i think the end talks about a power/tech of the 4th hokage.


----------



## Lurker909 (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> So basically, after Tobito is hinted, Kakashi goes berserk and says Tobi IS NOT Obito, that Obito was a hero and is DEAD then Naruto has flashbacks of Jiraiya and Minato and their expectations of him, and he decide to take over the fight.
> 
> Unless I missed misunderstood stuff.


So wait

If Tobi's not Obito, then, with the hints we've been given so far and the foreshadowing that Tobi has some connection to Kakashi, that must mean...



Not sure if want.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 11, 2012)

If you guys want to risk your Telegrams access, then go ahead and keep posting fake links.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

To be fair, I think Kishi played Tobito for as long as he could but if Naruto really intends to solo, it's over for Obito.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> In the flashbacks, Naruto remembers that Minato said you needed a special power to take on Tobi.
> Since Naruto decides to take over the fight after remembering that, you can assume Naruto is finally going to show "that jutsu".



Yes.

"Eagle" no DAT Jutsu, according to google troll....


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> wait so Naruto will finally show "That jutsu"?
> i think the end talks about a power/tech of the 4th hokage.



No he doesn't show it.
But he remembers Minato said you needed it to fight Tobi and he wants to solo Tobi so he has the "special power" needed.


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> Indeed are they!
> 
> So Obito's plot is actually actual?


Quite so. 

"The consciousness is in the eye"


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> wait so Naruto will finally show "That jutsu"?
> i think the end talks about a power/tech of the 4th hokage.



you mean that jutsu he never trained for or biju dama? 

i just want to see people still saying "no, naruto trained for it"


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

> (Naruto) Naruto Kyuubi is finally fully enjoy the power of the eagle was entrusted to ... Dachi the eagle of the fourth generation! !
> Naruto!
> (Naruto) Fourth Kyuubi was sealed he becomes the eagle as a force to defeat you!



this part is about the eagle tech.


----------



## Hurricanes (Aug 11, 2012)

Evil messed with everyone's head that they keep posting fake links that are not funny


----------



## griaule (Aug 11, 2012)

Hmm, Rin's death was never described. While I doubt she is Tobi, I'm sure there are some things about her we have yet to learn...


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

Sounds like "that jutsu" to me. I'm so hyped.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> this part is about the eagle tech.





The future "dat eagle tech"

But, what about Sasuke's "taka" now if Naruto actually master the ultimate eagle jutsu?


----------



## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

Can't say I am pumped for this chapter, doesn't look like Kakashi or *Gai* fight in this chapter


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> The future "dat eagle tech"
> 
> But, what about Sasuke's "taka" now if Naruto actually master the ultimate eagle jutsu?



chapter sounds good especially with the possibility of that jutsu being confirmed.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 11, 2012)

And I remember the memeber Kakashi Hatake saying Kakashi would defeat Tobi 

I told him it would be Naruto


----------



## Lurker909 (Aug 11, 2012)

griaule said:


> Hmm, Rin's death was never described. While I doubt she is Tobi, I'm sure there are some things about her we have yet to learn...


It'd be kind of hilarious, actually.
I'd applaud Kishi for the bait-and-switch, but this _would_ be harder to explain than Tobito.
Still, the lulz this would bring would make me more willing to accept a crappy explanation, so I'd probably be okay with this. 

Besides, nobody would ever complain about females sucking in this manga _ever again._


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> this part is about the eagle tech.





Naruto is getting Hawk Mode?

Now that's truly unexpected!


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

That eagle jutsu makes me so excited.I want to know more about it


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

so perhaps its Hirashin,or something similar to it?especially if naruto has to fight Tobi's S/T tech.


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> And I remember the memeber Kakashi Hatake saying Kakashi would defeat Tobi
> 
> I told him it would be Naruto



If someone really believed that it would be someone other than Naruto who defeated Tobi....


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

JuubiSage said:


> If someone really believed that it would be someone other than Naruto who defeated Tobi....



nah really? you mean the last chapters didn't change your mind like..... everyone else?


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 11, 2012)

JuubiSage said:


> If someone really believed that it would be someone other than Naruto who defeated Tobi....



You should know by now that fanboys will be fanboys


----------



## Gunners (Aug 11, 2012)

General information. Eagles are physically superior to Hawks.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> so perhaps its Hirashin,or something similar to it?especially if naruto has to fight Tobi's S/T tech.



  

Ultimate Hawk-Fox Mode Hiraishin no Jutsu!

No needs Kunai. No needs seals. Just needs RS fuck*n Hawk Mode! 



edit:



Gunners said:


> General information. Eagles are physically superior to Hawks.



 


So, basically, Ultimate Royal-Eagle-Fox Mode Hiraishin no Jutsu?!!


----------



## WT (Aug 11, 2012)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> If you guys want to risk your Telegrams access, then go ahead and keep posting fake links.



I'm sorry


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

lets wait for trans though before jumping into conclusions with this new eagle power/tech.


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> The future "dat eagle tech"
> 
> But, what about Sasuke's "taka" now if Naruto actually master the ultimate eagle jutsu?


it can be two things:


- its about rikudou, what could confirm what many guessed here about rikudou having learned stuff from tengus;

- its some waky translation related to some expression that was used about taking flight;


im hoping for the first option, though i dont have much hope... it would confirm what rikudou is really about and naruto and sasuke would be aiming for the same thing


----------



## Gunners (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> lets wait for trans though before jumping into conclusions with this new eagle power/tech.



It was a tongue in cheek statement, relax.


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> lets wait for trans though before jumping into conclusions with this new eagle power/tech.


I agree. Actually, I'm pretty sure that "eagle" does not appear in that spoiler.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 11, 2012)

If Naruto really pulls out any form of hiraishin then I might really consider dropping this manga for a while(it's been on the downside since the war started). The asspull from that would simply be way too much considering he doesn't have any clue on what hiraishin even is.


----------



## Hurricanes (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> Ultimate Hawk-Fox Mode Hiraishin no Jutsu!
> 
> No needs Kunai. No needs seals. Just needs RS fuck*n Hawk Mode!
> 
> ...



I think ur a bit ahead of urself there...... wait til it's confirmed


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> I agree. Actually, I'm pretty sure that "eagle" does not appear in that spoiler.



Yeah, eagle sounds very out of place.


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> lets wait for trans though before jumping into conclusions with this new eagle power/tech.



naruto is frog. 

sasuke is hawk.

but now, naruto is hawk and frog.

sasuke will get frog too :amazed


----------



## Ryan (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> I agree. Actually, I'm pretty sure that "eagle" does not appear in that spoiler.


yeah, bad translation


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> If Naruto really pulls out any form of hiraishin then I might really consider dropping this manga for a while(it's been on the downside since the war started). The asspull from that would simply be way too much considering he doesn't have any clue on what hiraishin even is.


Your loss, our gain..


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Hurricanes said:


> I think ur a bit ahead of urself there...... wait til it's confirmed



Never ruin someone's optimism....!


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Lurker909 said:


> It'd be kind of hilarious, actually.
> I'd applaud Kishi for the bait-and-switch, but this _would_ be harder to explain than Tobito.
> Still, the lulz this would bring would make me more willing to accept a crappy explanation, so I'd probably be okay with this.
> 
> Besides, nobody would ever complain about females sucking in this manga _ever again._


I'd actually prefer Tobi being Rin than Obito. That is just as shocking to Kakashi as Obito would be, but has the added bonus of mindfucking the readers. Plus, I like strong female characters since I'm a girl.


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

both bing and google trans have it as eagle.i wonder what it is though.


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

But eagle sounds badass.Much better then frogs


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> Your loss, our gain..



Bad writing is bad writing, and having Naruto use hiraishin with zero knowledge of it is exactly that.


----------



## Hurricanes (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> Never ruin someone's optimism....!



sorry buddy just trying to safe u from the big dissappointed


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

Justice said:


> But eagle sounds badass.Much better then frogs



frogs were badass. now that dragon sage mode appears, frog SM is sooooooooo last year


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2012)

Oh...naruto is getting "eagle" hirashin tech....hmmm let me know when sasuke gets back. peace


----------



## Gunners (Aug 11, 2012)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> If Naruto really pulls out any form of hiraishin then I might really consider dropping this manga for a while(it's been on the downside since the war started). The asspull from that would simply be way too much considering he doesn't have any clue on what hiraishin even is.



How do you know that Naruto doesn't have a clue what Hiraishin is? Not saying that he will pick the technique up but its always been clear that the characters knows more than what the reader does in certain circumstances. That Jutsu for instance, Naruto knows what it is about we don't, another example is the prophecy for him and Sasuke he foresaw something that we're yet to find out about. 

He spent 2 and a half years training with Jiraiya as he moves through the ninja world there's a possibility that many things he previously failed at will be completed once he fills in the missing puzzle.


----------



## Bart (Aug 11, 2012)

It's good that Naruto and Sauske are getting all these new techniques ;S

But what about the likes of Neji or even Lee? ;O

I'm sure most would like to see how much they've progressed tbh :WOW


----------



## Lurker909 (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> I'd actually prefer Tobi being Rin than Obito. That would be just as shocking to Kakashi as Obito would be, but has the added bonus of mindfucking the readers. Plus, I like strong female characters since I'm a girl.


I'd prefer Tobi being _Tonton_ to Tobi being Obito.

The problem I have with Tobito is that it's obvious at a first glance, but not if you give the theory some serious thought. Kind of like Naruto being the 4th's son, except with massive plot holes.
When I say it'd be a retarded twist, I don't mean that as a generic insult. I mean it as in it would actually degrade the intelligence of the readers.

A mindfuck twist is more fun than an untwist, anyway.
If this doesn't actually happen, I should write an AU Tobirin fanfic; the idea has potential.


----------



## GoDMasteR (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> both bing and google trans have it as eagle.i wonder what it is though.



lol xD sorry but there isn't no eagle here

九尾（ナルト）　ナルトは四代目の託した*ワシ*を?　ダチにしたあげくワシの力を使いこなした！ ！

see the bolded word? 
ワシ =  I/Me

Google translated it as Eagle but it's an error... 

Kyuubi is saying that he was entrusted to him (Naruto) from the Yondaime...


----------



## Jizznificent (Aug 11, 2012)

Google Translation said:
			
		

> (Sat) 2012/08/11 18:49:49.63 ID:: ohana ◆ IR7jauNn4E wGjqHPicP
> strip ripping clothes torn right mask is one art of Guy guy ...? Scarecrow Oh but why the attack finally hit well I know Naruto Ne! During the analysis Guy do not know and I know that art ask the description of the jutsu even easy guy come out to the right of Darth Vader does not vary even how to fight neta surgery Kakashi ... is really easy ... I say ... secret of space-time ninjutsu 597 truth of art ...! ? I had to bypass surgery the same space-time ninjutsu like art ... that would inhale Scarecrow Guy What do you mean? Know why such a thing to you? Naruto, right? Scar ... That scratches the surface of the guy first ... to explain step-by-step Kakashi's right shoulder can you crash the Rasengan of just now from the scar and I without a doubt ... I was with in the zone of chidori my We know that wounds　 have one thing in common flaw of these two is the fact that in part had been in contact overlap in the middle one is missing the body of Naruto to the body of the guy　 again to wound the two and there is a common one that　 it is a wound that was created by Rasengan What kunai flew to space and time in the art of Kamui ... for my guy! Naruto, right? Ninjutsu space is connected with the space-time of my Kamui ... This means that when the guy from the Scarecrow! Wait a minute ... Guy chopper! What do you mean? Pupil of his eye techniques of surgery and you are connected guy why! ? Mon Why Germany has led everyone is doing What space-time ninjutsu Bee! ? Guy and I probably just do not ... Kakashiiya mask ... I'm Not Going to win a kunai and turned it off rather than more important than that 's what my punch Naruto! ? Be steering idiot! It does rely on the attack to the guy slip through just because it's in common even though the space-time This guy will do! The idea of bypassing that I was wrong, Kakashi is the guy ... I'm the Naruto: What do you mean? I had to just that and move to the space-time parts of the body of the guy was in contact with the body of you actually seemed to have slipped through the attack of Kakashi ... the left face of the guy punches you have slipped through that is was present moves to the space when no longer in this space rather than part and slipped through 　as an entity will be drawing your hands ... you caught me that would flew to space when the kunai in Kamui timing almost the same as it next guy ... just before you move in the momentum and as　 I was scratching the surface end between time and space to move my kunai flew peace even when the Rasengan Naruto? Ah ... Kakashi　 or Naruto ... that kind of guy the eyes are connected ... why in the Be? Where did you get that eye Scarecrow! ? But in the battle that became known as the hero of the Battle of the Sharingan is you ... God's time of the match毘橋no previous mask ...... Suffice it to say ... Hmph ... or where Scarecrow! ! You ... are ... I said mask! Do not open your mouth ... and easy! The words you say will be dropped only lip service is not a man of worth and meaning of anything! Reality is you've seen the reality that only cleave brutally ... but not Palm come true nothing such as a wish would have been found ... in this world will slow even if you regret　 tomb he leads to the dream of Tsukiyomi Mugen why I'm saying that you do not need to make the world a hero to the poor excuses in front of the scarecrow Haahaa nephew Guy! Scarecrow you okay! (Sat) 2012/08/11 18:51:18.60 ID:: 125: ohana ◆ IR7jauNn4E wGjqHPicP Guy! What to say in it still complaining complaining Teme Naruto! ? Should've said here! Hey give up the dream of Hokage! ! Mon has been entrusted to take the child immediately knitted a lot! ! Kyuubi ... Gainaruto! Be heh! What do you think guys ... you'll do after you if you use the furnace蔑four things Hokage Jiraiya and Naruto ... was entrusted to you ... but if that is committed Hmph ... mask? Jiraiya and Naruto - Snow crab was good to his disciples to you - what to do when I bought the answer is found in the front of the shrine and give it to you! Answer the fourth generation, the answer that I find myself to find the answer if you do not even know me ... I believe you end recollection you ... What do you think yourself if that fails then what was entrusted to mask I would do? Naruto also was entrusted also the only real side also committed deception by the word hope to postpone the issue is vain mask ... Just wait ... just vain ... Kyuubi recalls leaving half the chakra of Kyuubi Yondaime to you and if my son because I believed it was sealed and Te master this power Kaware Kyuubi Naruto ...! I tell you ... there is a word to him that Naruto! # guy ... is the word of the Teme is true Hey (Naruto) bad Kyuubi Kyuubi or Guy ...! Scarecrow! Kamen ... (Naruto) Naruto Kyuubi is finally fully enjoy the power of the eagle was entrusted to ... Dachi the eagle of the fourth generation! ! Naruto! (Naruto) Fourth Kyuubi was sealed he becomes the eagle as a force to defeat you! Laugh faintly Naruto ... Naruto Kyuubi IKE! Hey Teme is a failure to something! ! Oss Naruto (Kyuubi mode)! ! ~Tsu Butyrate torn! ! The end ★ Some Ohana answering questions:: Edit WGjqHPicP: (Sat) 2012/08/11 18:52:39.30 ID: 26: Ohana ◆ IR7jauNn4E Barre >> 124 >> 125 when the Battle of Te毘橋no God? I wonder not Obito wGjqHPicP: (Sat) 2012/08/11 18:58:28.77 ID: Ohana ◆ IR7jauNn4E: 138 one hundred thirty-five >> talk to the mission with Obito and Rin and Kakashi and Yondaime? Toko of talk way, Obito will die? WGjqHPicP: (Sat) 2012/08/11 19:00:06.11 ID: 48: Ohana ◆ IR7jauNn4E one hundred forty >> ​​when I had to explain lucidly explained Kakashi says that Haahaa By the end use it is too w Kamui ohana: 62 ◆ IR7jauNn4E: wGjqHPicP: (Sat) 2012/08/11 19:04:30.94 ID I wonder I wonder or shock has received a description Haahaa tired I was saying I'll do it Tatte fighting, mask and the first Hokage? N Toko is there? Te consciousness that is in the eye and Obito It is different from what a human body? Well I have to, I'll sound weird? (Sat) 2012/08/11 19:10:08.29 ID:: seventy-eight: Ohana ◆ IR7jauNn4E WGjqHPicP >> one hundred fifty-seven also talk at the end, even before the Table of Contents 1P Naruto does not notice. Perhaps. Obon holiday comment was going to write Te ~ Nde Tottori


??????????

GOOGLE friend, CAN YOU TRANSLATE?!


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

i remember when some people kept translating sasuke's team name as eagle , eagle and hawk are interchangeable, they just needed to choose the better term.

though eagle here might very well have something to do with a flying thunder god reference, i dont know, im so curious to know more about rikudou's power, if naruto displays anything related to birds coming directly from kyuubi, the tengu stuff would be almost confirmed, wishful thinking though.


----------



## Narutaru (Aug 11, 2012)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Bad writing is bad writing, and having Naruto use hiraishin with zero knowledge of it is exactly that.



Naruto's known about "that jutsu" since the beginning of part 2. If it happens to be some form of Hiraishin then he's had knowledge about it for a long time now.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

GoDMasteR said:


> lol xD sorry but there isn't no eagle here
> 
> 九尾（ナルト）　ナルトは四代目の託した*ワシ*を?　ダチにしたあげくワシの力を使いこなした！ ！
> 
> ...





google troll... 

Can't wait for trans now...


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

Addy said:


> frogs were badass. now that dragon sage mode appears, frog SM is sooooooooo last year



SM was indeed badass but eagles are still more badass then frogs.Don't want Naruto to have an eagle mode but a jutsu of it would be really cool. Dragon sage mode doesn't fit much to Naruto imo.

No eagle after all ?


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

GoDMasteR said:


> lol xD sorry but there isn't no eagle here
> 
> 九尾（ナルト）　ナルトは四代目の託した*ワシ*を?　ダチにしたあげくワシの力を使いこなした！ ！
> 
> ...


you know japanese?


----------



## Hurricanes (Aug 11, 2012)

Narutaru said:


> Naruto's known about "that jutsu" since the beginning of part 2. If it turns out to be some form of Hiraishin then he's had knowledge about it for a long time now.



No one knows what "that Jutsu" is that's why it's called "that Jutsu" and naruto has zero knowledge of Hiraishin so far


----------



## GoDMasteR (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> you know japanese?



I'm just learning... btw my japanese is poor actually...


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Lurker909 said:


> I'd prefer Obito being _Tonton_ to Tobi being Obito.
> 
> The problem I have with Tobito is that it's obvious at a first glance, but not if you give the theory some serious thought. Kind of like Naruto being the 4th's son, except with massive plot holes.
> When I say it'd be a retarded twist, I don't mean that as a generic insult. I mean it as in it would actually degrade the intelligence of the readers.
> ...


I have no desire to see Tobito confirmed, but if there's any connection to Obito I'd prefer Rin as the focus. At least she hasn't been debated to death as a possible Tobi candidate for the past 7 years. Almost anyone seems fresh compared to Obito.

I'd like to be shocked by this reveal. Someone that you could never, ever predict.


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

GoDMasteR said:


> I'm just learning... btw my japanese is poor actually...


well but i guess you are right ~.~, there goes my hope



vered you should read my thread, i think you might like


----------



## Wiseman Deathphantom (Aug 11, 2012)

I personally would be ok with anyone (including Obito) being Tobi, but regardless of the actual truth, I hope Kishi explained it well, in an original way.


----------



## Narutaru (Aug 11, 2012)

Hurricanes said:


> No one knows what "that Jutsu" and naruto has zero knowledge of Hiraishin so far



It's not like it's been shown that Jiraiya and Naruto know what it is right ? They know what the jutsu is and if it turns out to be Hiraishin then he does have knowledge of it.


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## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

Hiraishin is Minatos trademark.If Naruto gets it Minato will lose that makes him  to Minato.Not want.


----------



## Lurker909 (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> I have no desire to see Tobito confirmed, but if there's any connection to Obito I'd prefer Rin as the focus. At least she hasn't been debated to death as a possible Tobi candidate for the past 7 years. Almost anyone seems fresh compared to Obito.
> 
> I'd like to be shocked by this reveal. Someone that you could never, ever predict.


Don't forget that Rin's the only character besides Tobi who's been confirmed to be able to transplant eyes. 

But yeah, Kishi, don't . . . don't answer the greatest mystery of the manga with an untwist. I'll lose the little respect I had for you.


----------



## Seraphoenix (Aug 11, 2012)

Kurama, Jiraiya and Minato mentioned 

need translation


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## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

okay, washi can mean either a pronoum or eagle.
But if it was the pronoum, wouldn't Ohana have used hiraganas instead of katakanas ? (actually, it also works for eagle unless washi is a borrowed word from a language I don't know)

And that's all for my memories from when I thought I had enough motivation and free time to learn japanese.


----------



## GoDMasteR (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> well but i guess you are right ~.~, there goes my hope
> 
> 
> 
> vered you should read my thread, i think you might like



even if my jap is poor, I sure 100% that ワシ isn't "eagle", but "I/me"

ワシ (washi) is like 私 (watashi) = I/Me

Only that ワシ (washi) is less neutral (who shows familiarity) than 私 (watashi) which it's a neutral form


----------



## VlAzGuLn (Aug 11, 2012)

so anything about tobi's identity?


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

Like GoDMasteR said there is no "Eagle" mentioned in this chapter. So people should stop their delusions about eagle jutsu or eagle mode or any of that sort. 

At the end of Ohana's spoiler the Kyuubi is once more switching with Naruto and talking about how Yondaime entrusted Naruto with his- Kurama's- power so that Naruto could defeat Tobi. That's all.

It's the usual peptalk before Naruto shows a new power up. Whether that means Naruto will unveil "that jutsu" or just that Naruto will suddenly manage to fight a lot more skillful than before remains to be seen.


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

GoDMasteR said:


> even if my jap is poor, I sure 100% that ワシ isn't "eagle", but "I/me"
> 
> ワシ (washi) is like 私 (watashi) = I/Me
> 
> Only that ワシ (washi) is less neutral (who shows familiarity) than 私 (watashi) which it's a neutral form


i see 

ty for cleaning it up


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2012)

If naruto is using "that jutsu" from jiraiya. i think there might be that never revealed "that jutsu" from sasuke the orochimari stopped sasuke from using


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

Csdabest said:


> If naruto is using "that jutsu" from jiraiya. i think there might be that never revealed "that jutsu" from sasuke the orochimari stopped sasuke from using


hmm wasnt it kirin?


then again, his moves didnt look the same...


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

Csdabest said:


> If naruto is using "that jutsu" from jiraiya. i think there might be that never revealed "that jutsu" from sasuke the orochimari stopped sasuke from using



I'm pretty sure that was Kirin. Though probably a lower powered one compared to the one he used against Itachi.


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm not really sure where you guys are getting "that jutsu" from the spoilers. All I see is Kurama/Naruto having a little convo and then Naruto opening a major can of whoop-ass.


----------



## Sword Sage (Aug 11, 2012)

Csdabest said:


> If naruto is using "that jutsu" from jiraiya. i think there might be that never revealed "that jutsu" from sasuke the orochimari stopped sasuke from using



That "Jutsu" was Kirin that Orochimaru stopped him from using.


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

Csdabest said:


> If naruto is using "that jutsu" from jiraiya. i think there might be that never revealed "that jutsu" from sasuke the orochimari stopped sasuke from using



It was obviously Kirin.


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> I'm pretty sure that was Kirin.



I think everyone is pretty sure that's Kirin. Except maybe CSdabest.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> hmm wasnt it kirin?
> 
> 
> then again, his moves didnt look the same...



He made handseals, which kirin doesn't need. Kirin also required the atmosphere to heat up and for thunder clouds to form, which never happened. It didn't seem like kirin at all.


----------



## limbo Kakashi (Aug 11, 2012)

Hurricanes said:


> No one knows what "that Jutsu" is that's why it's called "that Jutsu" and naruto has zero knowledge of Hiraishin so far



''That jutsu'' was referring to kyuubi.


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2012)

Matrix XZ said:


> That "Jutsu" was Kirin that Orochimaru stopped him from using.



That was settled on. never confirmed. just how people tjough odama rasengan , frs, and bijuu dama was that jutsu.


----------



## VlAzGuLn (Aug 11, 2012)

Kirin had handseals too


----------



## ?Sasuke?2 (Aug 11, 2012)

is there someone who can translate from chinese? 

i'll post the ch version under spoiler tag


*Spoiler*: __ 



面具男的被打中的右手的衣服哗啦啦的剥落
凯：这家的术…一个？
卡卡西：是的
鸣人：虽然不是很明白、但是总算是打中了贴吧哟
凯：论分析能力的话比你厉害家伙可是不存在的，就摆脱你简单点的把那家伙的术说明了。根据知道忍术的事情和不知忍术的事情战斗方法也会发生改变的。
卡卡西：术的NETA其实真的非常简单的、听好了

597 时空忍术的秘密

术的真像…！？
卡卡西：和那个吸入的术一样…穿透的术也是一样的时空忍术。
凯：怎么说？为什么你会明白那种事情？
鸣人：？
卡卡西：按照顺序说明…首先是那家伙的面具的伤痕… 那个伤痕是我的雷切的苦无造成的…应该没错这样想着，而之后因为右肩膀中了螺旋丸而受伤终于明白了。
这两个伤痕的共同点是、当鸣人的身体刚好穿过那家伙的时、有重叠接触的部分。
而且…这两个伤还有另外一个共同点。
那是…因为我的神威而飞向空间的苦无和因为螺旋丸而造成的伤。
凯：…！（完全看不懂卡卡西的解说什么意思囧继续翻下去了）
鸣人：？
卡卡西：也就说、从这件事来看那家伙的时空忍术…和我的神威是连在一起的。
凯：等等…等一下！这是怎么回事？为什么你的瞳术和那家伙的瞳术会连在一起！？（莫非真是带土o(╯□╰)o）
比：难道说空间忍术这种东西不论是谁的都是连在一起的么！？
卡卡西：不…并非如此，恐怕只有那家伙和我。（真的是带土( ⊙ o ⊙ )、越来越带土了）
面具男…
鸣人：比起那种事情为什么我的拳头不行而消失的苦无会打中啊啊啊！？
比：是啊你这个混蛋！即使是空间相同的、但是要打中虚化的那家伙也不可能啊你这个混蛋！
卡卡西：那个“虚化”这种想法本身就是错的。
凯：…
鸣人：到底是怎么回事啊？
卡卡西：…你的攻击看来像是穿过去了、实际上是和你接触的那家伙身体转移到异空间去了而已。
也就说、你的拳头穿过去的那家伙的左脸部分、与其说是穿过去了倒不如说是根本就不存在于这个空间、而是转移到异空间了而已。
也还是作为实体、而与此大约同一时间我想要用神威转移掉的苦无也刚好移动到、因为想要抓做主你…而向前伸出手的那家伙的侧面…
之后我丢出去的苦无转移到异空间接受、给面具造成了伤害。
鸣人：那么我的螺旋丸的时候也是？
卡卡西：嗯
鸣人：是这样啊
比：但是…为什么和那家伙的瞳术相连？
卡卡西：那个眼睛你是在什么地方得到的？
面具男：在什么地方？嗯…硬要说的话是上次对战的时候、神无昆桥的战斗…你被称为写轮眼的英雄的时候的那场战斗。
卡卡西：！！…你…
面具男：应该说过了！简单的说就是！沦为只剩余口头约定的你的话语没有任何的价值！即使后悔也完了！现实…只会残酷的一味向前而已！一路见证现实的你应该明白的…在这个世界愿望什么的一个也不可能实现。
正因为如此、才要将世界引导向无限月读这个梦的世界。创造英雄再也不需要再坟前可怜的说着借口的世界。
卡卡西：哈哈哈哈
凯：喂！卡卡西、没事吧！
凯：！
鸣人：你这混蛋、你在啰嗦那个了么！？这边也应该说过的！火影的梦想不会放弃！我们这边被托付的东西也是很多的！
九尾：…
凯：鸣人！
比：嗯
面具男：嗯哼…被托付东西么…但是鸣人、…你如果鄙视自来也和四代火影托付给你的东西的话、他们会怎么想你呢？

鸣人和自来也
在神社前、找不到答案的话就将这个问题托付给你了…收你为弟子真是太好了！
四代：答案只有自己去寻找！那个答案我也不知道、但是你的话应该能找到。…我相信你！
回想结束

面具男：被托付的东西失败的话…你会如何看待自己呢？
鸣人…
面具男：即使以希望这种词语蒙混过去而拖延问题… 空虚的现实依然之后等待。
无论是托付之人还是被托付之人都是空虚的。
九尾：…

回想
四代：将九尾的一般查克拉封印在你体内、是因为相信你能完全掌握这个力量、如果是我的儿子的话。
九尾：鸣人…换我来！…对那家伙有一句不得不说的事情！
鸣人：！

九尾（鸣人）：不好意思…这家伙陷入了那家伙的话当中了。
凯：…九尾？！
卡卡西：！
面具男：…
九尾：鸣人把四代托付的我…当成朋友、完全掌握了我的力量！
鸣人：！
九尾：四代将作为打到你的力量的我、封印在了鸣人身上！
鸣人、淡淡的笑容
九尾：上吧…鸣人！失败什么的、你是不会的！！
鸣人（九尾模式） 哦哦哦！！
彻底打破！！（命运？）
——————完—————————————— ——


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> He made handseals, which kirin doesn't need. Kirin also required the atmosphere to heat up and for thunder clouds to form, which never happened. It didn't seem like kirin at all.



596 just clasped his arms and did the same pose you do for Kirin.


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## Seraphoenix (Aug 11, 2012)

''Naruto Kyuubi IKE! Hey Teme is a failure to something! ! Oss Naruto (Kyuubi mode)''

Does Naruto go into BM?


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

Csdabest just got quadrupleteamed



Rainbow Dash said:


> I'm not really sure where you guys are getting "that jutsu" from the spoilers. All I see is Kurama/Naruto having a little convo and then Naruto opening a major can of whoop-ass.



You are right of course. It's just looking like a credible setup for "that jutsu"


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 11, 2012)

VlAzGuLn said:


> Kirin had handseals too



No, it actually didn't.







No handseals anywhere.


----------



## Leptirica (Aug 11, 2012)

Csdabest said:


> If naruto is using "that jutsu" from jiraiya. i think there might be that never revealed "that jutsu" from sasuke the orochimari stopped sasuke from using



If that wasn't Kirin and Sasuke had something else in stock while Itachi was trashing him around, then he's crazy. Or suicidal, like I've been saying all along.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

AumaanAnubis said:


> ''That jutsu'' was referring to kyuubi.



The "hiraishin" and "dat jutsu" stuff was only optimistic's delirium from cheerfulness fans like me...

It's just the time we have waited this chap dat made us this 

Don't pay much attention till the official trans is out...


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2012)

To be honest it never sat right with me seeing as how high level kirin is yet oro didnt dven recognize chidori eiso belonging to sasuke


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Csdabest said:


> To be honest it never sat right with me seeing as how high level kirin is yet oro didnt dven recognize chidori eiso belonging to sasuke


He recognized the chakra, just not the shape manipulation.


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> And what he did there was a handseal hence why his two index fingers are clashing.
> 
> It's called the tiger handseal.
> 
> And again the atmosphere was never heated and thus there were no thunder clouds, which means it couldn't have been kirin.



It was Kirin however you look at it at the time that was all that he needed for Kirin, Kishi just switched things up for the bros fight, simple as that.

Btw tiger seal=katons mostly.


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2012)

Leptirica said:


> If that wasn't Kirin and Sasuke had something else in stock while Itachi was trashing him around, then he's crazy. Or suicidal, like I've been saying all along.



Because he had a strategy to use amaterasu against him in powering kirin.


----------



## Turrin (Aug 11, 2012)

Why do people think Naruto is getting FTG.


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

i believe that sasuke was able to make more simple versions of kirin...or rather, lighting coming from above

we never got to discover how he broke the ceiling so fast


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> It was Kirin however you look at it at the time that was all that he needed for Kirin, Kishi just switched things up for the bros fight, simple as that.



You claim this yet have ZERO proof of it. I've already shown you proof on how it couldn't have been kirin, but hey feel free to keep denying it. 

No thunder clouds equals no kirin and there were no thunder clouds when Sasuke was about to use that jutsu. And on top of that he formed handseals which is something he never did with kirin.



> Btw tiger seal=katons mostly.



Hence why it could've simply been some kind of fire jutsu. You guys sit here and claim it's kirin with pretty no proof backing it up. It's highly amusing


----------



## Leptirica (Aug 11, 2012)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> And what he did there was a handseal hence why his two index fingers are clashing.
> 
> It's called the tiger handseal.
> 
> And again the atmosphere was never heated and thus there were no thunder clouds, which means it couldn't have been kirin.



The tiger heand seals are for fire, and sending fire to the sky is the how you prepare for kirin, isn't it?


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Yes Ohana 

What have our google translators come up with, thus far?


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> It was Kirin however you look at it at the time that was all that he needed for Kirin, Kishi just switched things up for the bros fight, simple as that.
> 
> Btw tiger seal=katons mostly.



Cop out much?. it was never confirmed. only assumedand tiger seal is for katon. there is no reason for him to raise his hands like that.


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> i believe that sasuke was able to make more simple versions of kirin...or rather, lighting coming from above
> 
> we never got to discover how he broke the ceiling so fast



It's just probably how Kishi envisioned it at the time, then he made it better for the Uchiha fight.

@cs why cop out? I am saying it's Kirin.


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

Turrin said:


> Why do people think Naruto is getting FTG.



something about a hawk but apparently it is an error in translation? and "that jutsu".


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Yes Ohana
> 
> What have our google translators come up with, thus far?


That we really need a human translator.

[sp=also ggl trans of chinese trans]Peeling of the mask male was shot in the right-hand clothes crashed
Kay: This technique ... one?
Kakashi:
Naruto: Although not quite understand, but finally hit the stick yo
Kay: On the analysis of the ability of words better than you guys but that does not exist, to get rid of you simply point the guy surgery instructions. Know ninja thing and I do not know the ninja thing fighting method will change.
Kakashi: The operation of NETA is really very simple, so listen up

The secret of the 597 space-time Ninjutsu

Surgery was really like ...! ?
Kakashi: inhaled surgery ... the art of penetration is the same space-time Ninjutsu.
Kay: how to say? Why you will understand that sort of thing?
Naruto:?
Kakashi: In accordance with the order of description ... the first is to mask the scars of that guy ... that scar is my Rachel bitter result of ... so I thought should be right because the right shoulder spiral pill, but after injuries finally understand a.
The common denominator of these two wounds, when Naruto's body just through that guy, the overlapping part of the contact.
And ... these two injuries have one thing in common.
It is ... and having no space to fly because of my divinity, and because the injury caused by the spiral pill.
Kay: ...! (Totally do not understand the the Kakashi explanation of what 囧 continue to turn down)
Naruto:?
Kakashi: ie, look at that guy's space-time Ninjutsu ... and my divinity from this incident are linked.
Kai: Wait a minute ... wait a minute! How is this going? Why is the pupil of surgery and that guy pupil technique together! ? (Could it really with the soil o (╯ □ ╰) o)
: Could it be that this kind of thing, whether of space ninja who are linked so! ?
Kakashi: ... is not the case, I am afraid only that guy and me. (Really with soil (⊙ o ⊙), more and more with soil)
Mask male ...
Naruto: Compared to that sort of thing why my fist not disappear bitter will hit the ah ah ah! ?
: Ah you bastard! Even if the space is the same, but that guy can not fight empty You bastard!
Kakashi: This idea of ​​"virtual" itself is wrong.
Kay: ...
Naruto: in the end is how ah?
Kakashi: ... you attack appears to wear later, and you contact the guy body moved to a different space to go.
Is to say, your fist go through the left cheek of the guy, not so much wear later said it would be better simply do not exist in this space, but transferred to a different space only.
Or as an entity, and this is about the same time I want to the divinity transfer out the bitter and just moved to the, because you want to grab shots you ... move out of the hands of the guy on the side ...
After I lost out of the bitter transferred to a different space to accept, and causing injury to the mask.
Naruto: So when I spiral pills?
Kakashi: Well
Naruto: so ah
: But ... Why is connected to the guy pupil surgery?
Kakashi: eyes you where to get?
Mask M: where? Well ... framed the Last Battle of the time, God Kun bridge battle ... you are a hero to write round eyes when the battle.
Kakashi: ! ... You ...
Mask Male: It should be talked about! Simply means that Reduced to only the remaining oral agreement, your words do not have any value! Even regret also finished! The brutal reality ... only blindly forward. All the way to witness the reality you should be aware of ... in this world desire what can not be realized.
Precisely because of this, we want the world to guide this dream world to the unlimited monthly reading. To create the world of the hero no longer need to grave pathetic saying excuse.
Kakashi: ha ha ha ha
Kay: Hello! Kakashi, all right!
Kay:
Naruto: You bastard, you long-winded that! ? Here should also be said! Naruto's dream will not give up! Our side was entrusted to him, too, is more!
Nine: ...
Kay: Naruto!
: Ah
Mask M: ah ha ... was entrusted things you ... but Naruto ... If you despise Jiraiya and four generations of Naruto entrust to you the things they think you?

Naruto and Jiraiya
Before the shrine, can not find the answer, then will this issue is entrusted to you ... take you as a disciple really good!
Four generations: the answer is only to find! I do not know that answer, but you should be able to find. ... I believe you!
Recall that the end of

Mask M: entrust something fails ... you will think about ourselves?
Naruto ...
Mask M: muddle and delay in the past ... to hope that this word is still waiting for after the emptiness of reality.
Whether it is entrusted to him or entrusted to him is empty.
Nine: ...

Recall
Four generations: nine of the general chakra seal in your body is because I believe you can fully grasp it, if it is my son.
Nine: Ming ... change me! ... The guy have to say one thing!
Naruto:!

Nine (Naruto): I am sorry ... this guy into a guy then.
Kay: ... nine? !
Kakashi:
Mask Male: ...
Nine: Ming four generations entrusted to me ... as a friend, complete control of my strength!
Naruto:!
Nine: four generations as the hit of your strength, I sealed in the body of Naruto!
Naruto, a faint smile
Nine: ... Naruto! Failure or something, you are not! !
Ming (nine modes) oh! !
Completely broken! ! (Destiny?)[/sp]


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

Turrin said:


> Why do people think Naruto is getting FTG.



Because Minato and jutsu are mentioned in the same chapter. That's really all it takes. I still would like it better for Naruto to get Kushina's chains though.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 11, 2012)

Leptirica said:


> The tiger heand seals are for fire, and sending fire to the sky is the how you prepare for kirin, isn't it?



I never said he couldn't have been preparing for kirin. I said there's no proof or even implications that the jutsu he was about to use when Orochimaru stopped him was kirin. 

He formed a tiger seal there, which means it's highly probable he was about to use a fire jutsu. Whether he was going to use it to setup kirin or not is irrelevant because we're talking about the jutsu he was currently trying to perform before Orochimaru stopped him.


----------



## Summers (Aug 11, 2012)

Trying not to get spoiled, so I just want to know if this means we will get a chapter soon? Hoping to get my Naruto fix before I leave for work 12:30pm


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> That we really need a human translator.
> 
> [sp=also ggl trans of chinese trans]Peeling of the mask male was shot in the right-hand clothes crashed
> Kay: This technique ... one?
> ...



Secret of Tobi's powers.
Yondaime left the Kyuubi to Naruto to fight Tobi.

And that's all I can really make out.


----------



## Hurricanes (Aug 11, 2012)

wonder what jutsu kyubi is trying to use??


----------



## Leptirica (Aug 11, 2012)

Csdabest said:


> Because he had a strategy to use amaterasu against him in powering kirin.




And when that failed? No, this is a discussion of character now, not techniques. Sasuke would go all out against Itachi, so I believe that it was kirin that he meant to cast on his former teammates.


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> It's just probably how Kishi envisioned it at the time, then he made it better for the Uchiha fight.
> 
> @cs why cop out? I am saying it's Kirin.


i guess, even the creators of the opening thought the same thing


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Hurricanes said:


> wonder what jutsu kyubi is trying to use??



Probably a more complete Bijuu Transformation.


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Probably a more complete Bijuu Transformation.


I expect Naruto to be back in cloak mode and not just in the incomplete version of it.


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> It's just probably how Kishi envisioned it at the time, then he made it better for the Uchiha fight.
> 
> @cs why cop out? I am saying it's Kirin.



Becausing saying kishi changed his vision for the jutsu as the reason for everything being different is a cop out excuse


----------



## Gunners (Aug 11, 2012)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> No, it actually didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Kishimoto does not always dedicate panel space to drawing handseals


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Csdabest said:


> Becausing saying kishi changed his vision for the jutsu as the reason for everything being different is a cop out excuse



Not really, he raised his hand like he does for Kirin he has never showed any other jutsu that requires that movement.

Simple as that, it was supposed to be Kirin.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

> kakashi asked how the fuck did tobi got that eye.
> tobi says he got it from a world war after an incident happened to a small team that was responsible to destroy a bridge. ( i cant remember the name)



Shit is going to get really heated on NF this week.


----------



## Leptirica (Aug 11, 2012)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> I never said he couldn't have been preparing for kirin. I said there's no proof or even implications that the jutsu he was about to use when Orochimaru stopped him was kirin.
> 
> He formed a tiger seal there, which means it's highly probable he was about to use a fire jutsu. Whether he was going to use it to setup kirin or not is irrelevant because we're talking about the jutsu he was currently trying to perform before Orochimaru stopped him.





That wasn't really meant as an argument for or against your post, I just remembered those fiery dragon heads when I read it so I quoted it. ^^'


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Finally a real trans




Agony said:


> kakashi asked how the fuck did tobi got that eye.
> tobi says he got it from a world war after an incident happened to a small team *that was responsible to destroy a bridge.* ( i cant remember the name)


Tobi has Obito's eye confirmed.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> Finally a real trans
> 
> 
> Tobi has Obito's eye confirmed.



Guess Evil wasn't pulling our cocks, after all.


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

It was clear that Tobi has Obitos eyes since Evils 'spoilers'.Though this means he is not Obito just has his eyes,right ?


----------



## Gunners (Aug 11, 2012)

If Obito lived he would have been a monster.


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Guess Evil wasn't pulling our cocks, after all.



guess people might be mad that he is not Obito.


----------



## Hurricanes (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi knows everything lol he's just trollin with Kakashi and naruto


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Gunners said:


> If Obito lived he would have been a monster.



Yeah, he would basically be Tobi.


----------



## Kazekage Gaara (Aug 11, 2012)

Seems like the mask won't shatter this chapter. Yea, Obito's eye is Tobi's but it can mean that the body is too.


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> Finally a real trans
> 
> 
> Tobi has Obito's eye confirmed.



Well, everyone with a brain pretty much expected this, though I don't quite understand why that guy thinks that it means that Tobi is Obito and didn't just steal Obito's eye.


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

how does it indicate more that he is obito...hm


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> guess people might be mad that he is not Obito.



So, if we consider Evil's image-edit that featured Tobi "crying" at the stone monument, with Kakashi.

It's likely the chapter indicates that Tobi found the eye, after all.


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

i read the translation that's that happens? 

reaffirming that naruto is jesus, and tobi is obito? 

two weeks for this? really? 

no 8 gates? no mask break? just pep talk?


----------



## Mofo (Aug 11, 2012)

From Sasuke's spoiler, some from me, some from google trans:

A little of Tobi's mask is ruptured. Kakashi starts explaining his plan, the other guys listen.
They start discussing Kakashi's link with Tobi, Naruto ponders if every S/T Jutsu is linked, Kakashi answers it looks like only Tobi and his seem to be, and that might be Obito's eye.

Naruto (yes, Naruto) formulates a theory, Kakashi corrects it telling  that the jutsu simply shifts dimensions  by phasing tru attacks.
At this point Tobi interjects and starts talking about the Great battle of kirako Bridge  (you know, the one where Obito died), Kakashi and Yondaime failed as anybody else (I assume he's talking about Nagato), their words were false and the world doesn't need heroes anymore.

Naruto is pissed off, he says everything was entrusted to him, starting with Jiraya, he will never give up.

Flashback to Naruto and Jiraya, they are visiting a shrine (hard to translate)

Jiraya talks to Naruto:  The yondaime left you a gift. I was right in picking you as a disciple, you've been good. It's up to you now, I  have faith, you'll  make good use of it.


Back to present time.
Tobi: Entrusted something?  There is only emptiness in this reality

Flashback to Yondaime
I left you the Kyuubi because I knew you could do it.

Kurama takes control.
That's why I was sealed into  Naruto and now we're friends.

IMHO another powerup is coming.


----------



## lathia (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi's eye

then Oro/Obito/Naruto. =/


----------



## WT (Aug 11, 2012)

The strongest possibility is that Tobi has Obito 's eye which means that he's an Uchiha as he is very proficient in the MS.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Mofo said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sounds like a shitty chapter. Basically, nothing happens at all. Now wait 12 days to see what happens next, lol.


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

Addy said:


> i read the translation that's that happens?
> 
> reaffirming that naruto is jesus, and tobi is obito?
> 
> ...



Hey we don't know if he is Obito.We just know that he stole Obitos eyes.


----------



## Gunners (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Yeah, he would basically be Tobi.


He'd also have Kakashi's technique for offense. 

Lol I wonder where Kakashi would be without Obito's sharingan. The chump of the group would have left him in a trail of dust.


----------



## Final Jutsu (Aug 11, 2012)

wow, what is it with kishi repeating the same shit over and over..


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

White Tiger said:


> The strongest possibility is that Tobi has Obito 's eye which means that he's an Uchiha as he is very proficient in the MS.



I was hoping Kishi explained why his eye has yet to lose it's light. Obito's right Mangekyou was activated 15 years ago.

Hashirama's power, perhaps?

Still a little bit more left to the mystery.


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

I thought the chapter would be cool but reading the spoiler again,it's nothing special.


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

So yeah, Tobi's eye confirmed to be Obito's. Nothing new really, we all saw this coming from a mile away.


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Final Jutsu said:


> wow, what is it with kishi repeating the same shit over and over..



Since Kubo was sick he probably feels obliged to be slow and trollish this chap in honor of him.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Gunners said:


> He'd also have Kakashi's technique for offense.
> 
> Lol I wonder where Kakashi would be without Obito's sharingan. The chump of the group would have left him in a trail of dust.



I'd imagine Obito's use of his left eye Mangekyou would vastly surpass what we've seen from Kakashi to date.

Kamui kinda sucks, in the hands of Kakashi.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 11, 2012)

Nothing really revealin in this chapter. Seems like another shitty chapter, which is no surprise considering it's Naruto


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

Justice said:


> Hey we don't know if he is Obito.We just know that he stole Obitos eyes.



THAT IS EVEN WORSE 

we STILL don't know who he is? just more questions


----------



## Hurricanes (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> So, if we consider Evil's image-edit that featured Tobi "crying" at the stone monument, with Kakashi.
> 
> It's likely the chapter indicates that Tobi found the eye, after all.



Yea the pic of him finding the ring would obviously be him finding the sharingan?


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Nothing really revealin in this chapter. Seems like another shitty chapter, which is no surprise considering it's Naruto



Looks like Kishi is seriously stalling for chapter 600. He is waiting until then to reveal something awesome, probably Tobi's identity.


----------



## Turrin (Aug 11, 2012)

So Tobi has Obito's eye and knows about what happened to Team Kakashi during the mission where Obito "died". If Tobi is not Obito, Kishi is going to need a hell of an explanation as to how Tobi knows all the shit he does and why he would take and master random 2-tome Uchiha Sharingan eye.


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2012)

P.s. it is literally impossible for tobi to be obito. kyuubi attack happened when kakashi was about 16 the masked man looked like a full grown adult.  age techniques motives to not add up. it will be confirmed sharingan has its own dimension. and that dimesion is......tsukiyomi


----------



## Mofo (Aug 11, 2012)

At this point is pretty evident that Tobi might be some sort of construct that might have absorbed various bodies and identities (Madara, Senju, Tobi, Rin, etc).


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Aug 11, 2012)

Eye theory is canon.  That's nice.


----------



## Hurricanes (Aug 11, 2012)

Addy said:


> THAT IS EVEN WORSE
> 
> we STILL don't know who he is? just more questions



If it's confirmed then here comes IZUNA = TOBI


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Ok that makes sense now why the translator thought he is obito.  He recieved the sharingan during the incident and he feels yondaime and kakashis words were bullshit and that he no longer believes in heroes?


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Hurricanes said:


> Yea the pic of him finding the ring would obviously be him finding the sharing?



Good point! Forgot about that Evil image for a second. If he is to be believed, then Tobi is not Obito, confirmed. 



Unless someone pulled Obito's spirit from the pure world, into a Zetsu body, and he decided to retrieve his own eye - lol.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 11, 2012)

Obito would've been a beast had he not died seeing as his eyes possess hax jutsu. Kamui, intangibility, and teleportation. That would be one hax man.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Csdabest said:


> P.s. it is literally impossible for tobi to be obito. kyuubi attack happened when kakashi was about 16 the masked man looked like a full grown adult.  age techniques motives to not add up. it will be confirmed sharingan has its own dimension. and that dimesion is......tsukiyomi



Kakashi was 14 when the Kyuubi attacked - about a year after Obito's death and the end of the Third Ninja War.

But I agree with you.


----------



## Mofo (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic, that part is a  clear citation.

 Kakashi Gaiden ends with these words: That day a hero died and another one was born.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Csdabest said:


> P.s. it is literally impossible for tobi to be obito. kyuubi attack happened when kakashi was about 16 the masked man looked like a full grown adult.  age techniques motives to not add up. it will be confirmed sharingan has its own dimension. and that dimesion is......tsukiyomi



don't waste your words dude 

The spoiler says that Tobi took Obito's eye.

So Tobito's theory is definitly obsolete.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 11, 2012)

pretty much shitty chapter

that's what happens when there's no fighting and no feats


----------



## Nagato Sennin (Aug 11, 2012)

Obito! Aww yeah

(•_•)

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)


----------



## Mofo (Aug 11, 2012)

Good chapter, I assume Naruto will tamper with the seal a bit more and by chapter 600 we'll see that jutsu.


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Kakashi was 14 when the Kyuubi attacked - about a year after Obito's death and the end of the Third Ninja War.
> 
> But I agree with you.


I think that just is assuming Kakashi was the same age as Obito during the gaiden.  I don't think that was firmly established and is just speculation.  Kakashi graduated from the academy at 5-years old and Obito did so at 9, so they could have had different ages and been in the same group. Really the oldest Obito could possibly have been during the Kyuubi invasion would be 21.


----------



## Gunners (Aug 11, 2012)

Csdabest said:


> P.s. it is literally impossible for tobi to be obito. kyuubi attack happened when kakashi was about 16 the masked man looked like a full grown adult.  age techniques motives to not add up. it will be confirmed sharingan has its own dimension. and that dimesion is......tsukiyomi



Darth Vader was a lot taller than an adult Anakin.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

As expected, nothing new this chapter save for the predictable eye-connection.

Just more of Tobi's moronic babbling. How many chapters of this joker are left to be endured before the Juubi gets revived?


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> The spoiler says that Tobi took Obito's eye.
> 
> So Tobito's theory is definitly obsolete.



The eye theory IS a Tobito theory.  Has been for at least as long as I've been a member of these forums.


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> I think that just is assuming Kakashi was the same age as Obito during the gaiden.  I don't think that was firmly established and is just speculation.  Kakashi graduated from the academy at 5-years old and Obito did so at 9, so they could have had different ages and been in the same group. Really the oldest Obito could possibly have been during the Kyuubi invasion would be 21.



He died at age 13 according to wiki, idk how reliable it is, probably took the age from a databook?


----------



## Gunners (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> I think that just is assuming Kakashi was the same age as Obito during the gaiden.  I don't think that was firmly established and is just speculation.  Kakashi graduated from the academy at 5-years old and Obito did so at 9, so they could have had different ages and been in the same group. Really the oldest Obito could possibly have been during the Kyuubi invasion would be 21.





> Obito
> 
> 
> Village: Konoha
> ...


Where trying to be too smart goes wrong.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> I think that just is assuming Kakashi was the same age as Obito during the gaiden.  I don't think that was firmly established and is just speculation.  Kakashi graduated from the academy at 5-years old and Obito did so at 9, so really the oldest Obito could possibly have been during the Kyuubi invasion would be 21.



Obito died at the age of 13 (Databook), which took place 16 or 17 years ago. I believe Kakashi is 29-30 years of age as of now.


----------



## Hurricanes (Aug 11, 2012)

With all this knowledge that tobi has, I would assume he's a final villian material over madara. I don't even think Madara knows the two main characters existence.


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> He died at age 13 according to wiki, idk how reliable it is, probably took the age from a databook?


Yeah.

People took Obito's age during the gaiden from the databook, gave it to Kakashi, and then used Kakashi's age vs. Naruto's age to figure out the amount of time that passed between the gaiden and Naruto's birth.  But Kakashi and Obito might not be the same ages.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> The eye theory IS a Tobito theory.  Has been for at least as long as I've been a member of these forums.



I mean the toboto's one identifying Tobi to Obito. Not their eye.


----------



## Gunners (Aug 11, 2012)

Also Obito was criminally underrated, 24 completed B rank missions. Putting things into perspective the mission against Zabuza was considered a B rank mission and that almost got Sasuke killed. 

I suppose Obito had Minato as his protector and not Kakashi meaning the overall risk would be drastically reduced.


----------



## Blur (Aug 11, 2012)

Maybe Tobi is Kakashi from future? 
They share the same eye after all, and knows about the past of Gai and himself.


----------



## Mofo (Aug 11, 2012)

Kakashi was 13 during the Gaiden, the youngest jounin Konoha ever had.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 11, 2012)

Menshouha said:


> Maybe Tobi is Kakashi from future?
> They share the same eye after all, and knows about the past of Gai and himself.



Time travel in Naruto? Oh God no  That's the worse thing for any writer to bring into a story.


----------



## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

What did I say? I knew it was going to be Kakashi explaining this Jutsu for probably the entire chapter. My first prediction came correct. So easy to read Kishi, so easy to read. You love those 'Explanation' type chapters.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Yeah.
> 
> People took Obito's age during the gaiden from the databook, gave it to Kakashi, and then used Kakashi's age vs. Naruto's age to figure out the amount of time that passed between the gaiden and Naruto's birth.  But Kakashi and Obito might not be the same ages.



How are they not the same age? There exist an overwhelming amount of information to support it.


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

Mofo said:


> Kakashi was 13 during the Gaiden, the youngest jounin Konoha ever had.


I don't think either fact was ever established.




Klue said:


> How are they not the same age? There exist an overwhelming amount of information to support it.


They might be, but I think it's just an assumption.


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Obito died at the age of 13 (Databook), which took place 16 or 17 years ago. I believe Kakashi is 29-30 years of age as of now.





Klue, just surender now before you get trolled.......... we lost 




tobi is obito and kishi is just that.......... predictable


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Gunners said:


> Where trying to be too smart goes wrong.



Databooks mean shit. They are not canon and can be changed when Kishi or its writers realize it doesn't fit with the story.

For exemple, Iruka was 25 in DB1, but only 23/26 in DB2/3 because DB1 made him too old during the Kyuubi attack.
It's also almost a certainty Juugo will become older in the next databook or Anko younger, to make the CS timeline fit better.


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi must hace a way of telling what powers are in the sharingan


----------



## BlinkST (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa got soloed


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Nagato Sennin said:


> Databook also says Amaterasu is as hot as the sun



It is when it needs to burn through toad stomach.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Nagato Sennin said:


> Databook also says Amaterasu is as hot as the sun



Databook says Amaterasu is hot like the sun.


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> It is when it needs to burn through toad stomach.



i thought hot as the sun means that it would burn all the air on earth because the sun is that hot


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

If I supported the Tobito theory, I'd definitely want it to be Obito himself (mind and body), and not a watered down version with just his eye.

It's like saying Kakashi is Obito because he implanted his other eye.

Kobito!


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Addy said:


> i thought hot as the sun means that it would burn all the air on earth because the sun is that hot



Well I thought if I wished hard enough Naruto would die and Sasuke would have sex with me...guess how that turned out.


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2012)

Amaterasu also is show burning at different intensities. the same flame that was chilling inside tge frog stomache instantly incinerated a giant hole in the same material moments before.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Aug 11, 2012)

Thank god that whole Tobi=Obito nonsense got cleared up


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

It's not like "the databook means nothing".  It's just that I don't believe anything establishes Kakashi to be 13-years-old in the gaiden.  Obito is established to be 13-years-old in the gaiden from the databook, and people assume Kakashi and Obito are the same age.  Kakashi was 14 during the Kyuubi invasion, so Kakashi being 13 during the gaiden would mean only one or so years had passed.  But if Kakashi was younger than Obito, then more time had passed between the gaiden and the Kyuubi invasion, meaning Obito would have been older at that time.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Aug 11, 2012)

Addy said:


> i thought hot as the sun means that it would burn all the air on earth because the sun is that hot



... Isn't lightning hotter than the surface of the sun? >_>

If Amaterasu is that hot, then yes it would have adverse effects, but not on that scale.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Mofo said:


> Nic, that part is a  clear citation.
> 
> Kakashi Gaiden ends with these words: That day a hero died and another one was born.



No Obito has a speech in the gaiden to kakashi which leqves kakashi stunned when he calls his father a true hero.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi: I picked the eye up in a war.

Half the fandom: OMG ITS OBITO.

 wtf. REALLY...


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> If I supported the Tobito theory, I'd definitely want it to be Obito himself (mind and body), and not a watered down version with just his eye.
> 
> It's like saying Kakashi is Obito because he implanted his other eye.
> 
> Kobito!



I just want Tobi's identity to make sense. With the information we have to date, and some assumptions I'm drawing from that data, it's difficult for me think Tobi is likely Obito.

At this point, let's just rip the mask off already. The waiting game is killing me softly.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 11, 2012)

suns surface is only about 6000C or so


nothing much


----------



## AoshiKun (Aug 11, 2012)

From the spoiler it seems this chapter will be "meh".
One thing I want to know is if Tobi's jutsu is really Kamui or anything else.
I know it teleports to teh same dimension however the way it works is different.


----------



## Leptirica (Aug 11, 2012)

Right, so - if Kakashi wasn't the same age as Obito, than he had to be a few years younger, which isn't impossible since he was so talented and so on, and that means that either he is younger than we thought right now or that the gaiden happened long(er than we thought) before Naruto was born? 

Yeah, I think I got it. -_-


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> Tobi: I picked the eye up in a war.
> 
> Half the fandom: OMG ITS OBITO.
> 
> wtf. REALLY...



That's what I have been wondering about for the last hour. It only makes it obv he is not lol.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

In terms of ages: Kishi isn`t very creative when it comes to that. There night be a year difference between two team members but that`s about it.


Sorry for typos. On Japanese comp and can`t find the apostrophe.


----------



## Nagato Sennin (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Databook says Amaterasu is hot like the sun.



*The high temperature is like the sun, and one time touching it is
the last. *

What did Karin have to say about this


----------



## Ninja Genius (Aug 11, 2012)

So if he had to take a sharingan, I think it's safe to say he's not an Uchiha. Good, I hated the fact that all Uchiha somehow were an evil force in the world. I hope it turns out he's a senju descendant to make thinks a bit more grey.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> If I supported the Tobito theory, I'd definitely want it to be Obito himself (mind and body), and not a watered down version with just his eye.
> 
> It's like saying Kakashi is Obito because he implanted his other eye.





Gilgamesh said:


> Thank god that whole Tobi=Obito nonsense got cleared up





PikaCheeka said:


> Tobi: I picked the eye up in a war.
> 
> Half the fandom: OMG ITS OBITO.
> 
> wtf. REALLY...





Seraphiel said:


> That's what I have been wondering about for the last hour. It only makes it obv he is not lol.




The eye theory IS a Tobito theory. Has been for at least as long as I've been a member of these forums. I don't know where this sudden shift in belief came from where the eye theory is suddenly no longer classified as a Tobito theory, but quite frankly? This is really pathetic on your parts.

I said this in the Library but it bears repeating apparently:



Gaawa-chan said:


> Tobito theorists came up with the eye theory, and when they did, they were outright RIDICULED for doing so.  If the eye theory belongs to anyone, it belongs to them.  You're only kicking up a fuss about it because they've been onto something all these years and you don't want to admit it.


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> Tobi: I picked the eye up in a war.
> 
> Half the fandom: OMG ITS OBITO.
> 
> wtf. REALLY...


There's a bit more to it:

Masked man: Where I got it from? Well...if you insist on asking, I got it during the battle at Kannabi Bridge...at around the time when you began to be known as the Ninja of the Copying Eye.
Kakashi: !!!! ...you....
Masked man: It should've already been said! Simply put! You who are capable of nothing more than unfulfilled promises no longer has any worth or value! Even if you have regrets, it is too late! Reality will continue to callously march forward! You who have always been pragmatic and practical should understand. No promises or hopes will ever come true in this world! And that is precisely why this world must go to sleep underneath the eye of the Infinite Tsukyumoni. It will create a world where heroes will no longer have to make excuses in front of the tomb of dead heroes.​Obito or not, Tobi knows a lot about Kakashi.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> I just want Tobi's identity to make sense. With the information we have to date, and some assumptions I'm drawing from that data, it's difficult for me think Tobi is likely Obito.
> 
> At this point, let's just rip the mask off already. The waiting game is killing me softly.


I don't think Tobi is Obito, but then I never supported the theory to begin with. I'm just surprised that some Tobito fans will settle for his sharingan only.

Yep, let's get rid of that damn mask once and for all.


----------



## Zaru (Aug 11, 2012)

I will feast upon the tears of the people who disregarded Tobito if this is true. 

Not because I supported the theory myself, but because so many people ruled it out as if they were all-knowing.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

As far as I'm reading the spoiler, we don't know for sure if it's Obito. All we know is that Tobi has his eye. 

Remember, Obito DID get his Sharingan during that mission in the war. Before that he didn't have a Sharingan. So when Tobi says he got it from a war, he could just mean that's when he unlocked it. Or it could mean that he stole it from Obito's body.

We don't have enough info to say for sure.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> There's a bit more to it:
> 
> Masked man: Where I got it from? Well...if you insist on asking, I got it during the battle at Kannabi Bridge...at around the time when you began to be known as the Ninja of the Copying Eye.
> Kakashi: !!!! ...you....
> Masked man: It should've already been said! Simply put! You who are capable of nothing more than unfulfilled promises no longer has any worth or value! Even if you have regrets, it is too late! Reality will continue to callously march forward! You who have always been pragmatic and practical should understand. No promises or hopes will ever come true in this world! And that is precisely why this world must go to sleep underneath the eye of the Infinite Tsukyumoni. It will create a world where heroes will no longer have to make excuses in front of the tomb of dead heroes.​Obito or not, Tobi knows a lot about Kakashi.



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!


----------



## Nagato Sennin (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> There's a bit more to it:
> 
> Masked man: Where I got it from? Well...if you insist on asking, I got it during the battle at Kannabi Bridge...at around the time when you began to be known as the Ninja of the Copying Eye.
> Kakashi: !!!! ...you....
> Masked man: It should've already been said! Simply put! You who are capable of nothing more than unfulfilled promises no longer has any worth or value! Even if you have regrets, it is too late! Reality will continue to callously march forward! You who have always been pragmatic and practical should understand. No promises or hopes will ever come true in this world! And that is precisely why this world must go to sleep underneath the eye of the Infinite Tsukyumoni. It will create a world where heroes will no longer have to make excuses in front of the tomb of dead heroes.​Obito or not, Tobi knows a lot about Kakashi.



Aww snap        .


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

Nagato Sennin said:


> *The high temperature is like the sun, and one time touching it is
> the last. *
> 
> What did Karin have to say about this



Whew, thank god Alfred packed my heat resistant underwear.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 11, 2012)

personally I'm behind a composite construct Tobi that may have Obito's memories


but I'll take any identity so long as the chapter isn't a borefest


----------



## Shattering (Aug 11, 2012)

What if Tobi is Kakashi's father?


----------



## Detective Prince (Aug 11, 2012)

I just can't get my head about Tobi=Obito. It makes no sense for his personality to change so drastically....Or for him to live after being crushed by a whole bunch of rocks, not just one. 

Obito died to give Kakashi's character more depth. End of. It would be pointless to bring him back now.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> There's a bit more to it:
> 
> Masked man: Where I got it from? Well...if you insist on asking, I got it during the battle at Kannabi Bridge...at around the time when you began to be known as the Ninja of the Copying Eye.
> Kakashi: !!!! ...you....
> Masked man: It should've already been said! Simply put! You who are capable of nothing more than unfulfilled promises no longer has any worth or value! Even if you have regrets, it is too late! Reality will continue to callously march forward! You who have always been pragmatic and practical should understand. No promises or hopes will ever come true in this world! And that is precisely why this world must go to sleep underneath the eye of the Infinite Tsukyumoni. It will create a world where heroes will no longer have to make excuses in front of the tomb of dead heroes.​Obito or not, Tobi knows a lot about Kakashi.



Ok, fukk it, he's Obito.


----------



## Leon (Aug 11, 2012)

Okay, wait, so Kakashi's Kamui sends things to the Tobi same place Tobi can warp things, (the box dimension).

With that in mind, I wonder what Torune and Fuu thought when Sasuke's Susano'o arrow wizzed passed their damn heads at an incredible speed.  They were just placed in that dimension when Kakashi was fighting Sasuke after all, and when he had to use Kamui to warp Sasuke's arrow. They could've easily died if that arrow had happened to hit them.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> There's a bit more to it:
> 
> Masked man: Where I got it from? Well...if you insist on asking, I got it during the battle at Kannabi Bridge...at around the time when you began to be known as the Ninja of the Copying Eye.
> Kakashi: !!!! ...you....
> Masked man: It should've already been said! Simply put! You who are capable of nothing more than unfulfilled promises no longer has any worth or value! Even if you have regrets, it is too late! Reality will continue to callously march forward! You who have always been pragmatic and practical should understand. No promises or hopes will ever come true in this world! And that is precisely why this world must go to sleep underneath the eye of the Infinite Tsukyumoni. It will create a world where heroes will no longer have to make excuses in front of the tomb of dead heroes.​Obito or not, Tobi knows a lot about Kakashi.


  He promised to protect rin.  It is over TOBI IS OBITO.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

@ Gaawa - Every Tobito theorist I have argued vehemently against has believed it to be him, mind, body, and soul. I think a lot of members today do not consider the eye theory a true Tobito theory. No need to get vicious about it.



Hexa said:


> There's a bit more to it:
> 
> Masked man: Where I got it from? Well...if you insist on asking, I got it during the battle at Kannabi Bridge...at around the time when you began to be known as the Ninja of the Copying Eye.
> Kakashi: !!!! ...you....
> Masked man: It should've already been said! Simply put! You who are capable of nothing more than unfulfilled promises no longer has any worth or value! Even if you have regrets, it is too late! Reality will continue to callously march forward! You who have always been pragmatic and practical should understand. No promises or hopes will ever come true in this world! And that is precisely why this world must go to sleep underneath the eye of the Infinite Tsukyumoni. It will create a world where heroes will no longer have to make excuses in front of the tomb of dead heroes.​Obito or not, Tobi knows a lot about Kakashi.



Like he knew a lot about Sasuke and Itachi and Naruto, too, right?

That makes no sense given what we know about Obito.

Honestly that sounds like Madara about Izuna.


----------



## Ginkurage (Aug 11, 2012)

Despiser said:


> Kakashi: Where did you get that eye from?
> Masked man: Where I got it from?  Well...if you insist on asking, I got it during the battle at Kannabi Bridge...at around the time when you began to be known as the Ninja of the Copying Eye.
> Kakashi: !!!!  ...you....
> Masked man: It should've already been said!  Simply put!  You who are capable of nothing more than unfulfilled promises no longer has any worth or value!  Even if you have regrets, it is too late!  Reality will continue to callously march forward!  You who have always been pragmatic and practical should understand.  No promises or hopes will ever come true in this world!  And that is precisely why this world must go to sleep underneath the eye of the Infinite Tsukyumoni.  It will create a world where heroes will no longer have to make excuses in front of the tomb of dead heroes.
> Kakashi: Hahaha!



Not sure if it's been said as I couldn't be bothered reading all the posts before this but *Tobi = Rin* anyone?

I mean they got the eye from the battle on Kanabi Bridge and seem to be incredibly spiteful towards Kakashi for not fullfilling some sort of promise.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> He promised to protect rin.  It is over TOBI IS OBITO.



It's a translation of a Chinese Translation, it's not over yet. 

Give me the raw.


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

MYJC said:


> Ok, fukk it, he's Obito.



Or not. Pretty much every adult shinobi in Konoha knows that the reason Kakashi is late so often is that he spends so much time in front of Obito's grave. It's really no secret.


----------



## Final Jutsu (Aug 11, 2012)

Idk, maybe him knowing so much has to do with Zetsu.  He's been shown to record fights/events, and follow different shinobi.


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> @ Gaawa - Every Tobito theorist I have argued vehemently against has believed it to be him, mind, body, and soul. I think a lot of members today do not consider the eye theory a true Tobito theory. No need to get vicious about it.
> 
> 
> 
> *Like he knew a lot about Sasuke and Itachi and Naruto, too, right?*




Exactly.Tobi knows about most people,this is not new.


----------



## Fay (Aug 11, 2012)

Well to me, he's definitely Obito. So all of this is because Kakashi failed to protect Rin then? Obito must have really loved her...


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

If Tobi says he gained it during that battle, then he has to be Obito, right? After that battle, tells us that he retrieved it from Obito's corpse.

Or that's how I see it.


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

So basically the whole chapter: Kakashi explains Tobi's s/t jutsu, Tobi confirms that it's Obito's Sharingan, bunch of flashbacks and ends with Naruto going BM :V

It's been obvious for a long time that Tobi is using Obito's eye, but especially after this chapter I definitely think it's someone else. It would be pretty anticlimatic since now Tobi basically says "yeah I have Obito's eye" and Naruto & Co. are like "who the fuck are you", <insert few chapter of fighting, Naruto breaks Tobi's mask>, Tobi: "oh yeah and now the big reveal im obito, who could've guessed"


----------



## Detective Prince (Aug 11, 2012)

If people are saying he's Obito as he knows a lot about Kakashi. By that logic we'll go with this. 

He knew about the Uchiha massacre, Sasuke, Itachi and Naruto as well. 

He's the 3rd Hokage then, right? 

See how flawed that logic is?


----------



## Federer (Aug 11, 2012)

Wouldn't Obito's Sharingan have been destroyed by that huge rock? 

Or did Zetsu have something to do with it? So many questions, no answer.


----------



## Hurricanes (Aug 11, 2012)

Final Jutsu said:


> Idk, maybe him knowing so much has to do with Zetsu.  He's been shown to record fights/events, and follow different shinobi.



I think it has something to do with Zetsu also


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

the last two sentences of this chapter are the only thing in this chapter that are good............. the hell kishi? 

this is kabuto level of BS


----------



## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

I dont see why people don't start making Telegram threads, we just read the entire script :/


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

If Tobi is Obito, which I still doubt, he better have a damn good reason. Because him just wangsting over Rin is fucking pathetic. A final villain candidate goes evil because of teen love? That`s just disgusting.



Klue said:


> If Tobi says he gained it during that battle, then he has to be Obito, right? After that battle, tells us that he retrieved it from Obito's corpse.
> 
> Or that's how I see it.



Ambiguous. I doubt the battle ended the second Obito died.


----------



## Ginkurage (Aug 11, 2012)

Screw it. I'm officially placing my bets on Tobi being Rin.


----------



## Raiden (Aug 11, 2012)

Naruto actually takes what Tobi said seriously? Certainly different from Sasuke...Kabuto's words bounced right off that hard head of his.


----------



## skins (Aug 11, 2012)

Well isn't this entertaining. :3


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Addy said:


> the last two sentences of this chapter are the only thing in this chapter that are good............. the hell kishi?
> 
> this is kabuto level of BS



Pushes the reader to look forward to the next chapter. Another Bijuu Transformation incoming? He'll probably just show the same thing he did in chapter 571.

I'm not going to expect anything more than that.


----------



## Fay (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> If Tobi is Obito, which I still doubt, he better have a damn good reason. Because him just wangsting over Rin is fucking pathetic. A final villain candidate goes evil because of teen love? That`s just disgusting.



I think it would be epic . It's a very original thing to do after all .


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

if the only good thing about this chapter is the last page........... im gonna go and continue my darksiders  playthrough


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

Also, "EVIL SPOILER ROUND UP"

1. "Tobi's eye is Obito's" is totally the intended message of the first set.
2. Tobi flipping the eye up with the Kanabi bridge in the background refers to his line about Kanabi bridge.
3. Tobi at the monument refers to his line about Kakashi at the monument.

Really, they're not the most cryptic things in the world, but you sort of have to read the chapter to figure that out.


----------



## TH4N4T0S (Aug 11, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> The eye theory IS a Tobito theory. Has been for at least as long as I've been a member of these forums. I don't know where this sudden shift in belief came from where the eye theory is suddenly no longer classified as a Tobito theory...


That's correct. However, it is indeed quite baffling that some people seem to have inferred from Tobi's possession of Obito's eye that Tobi is Obito. In truth, Tobi's eye doesn't prove anything about his identity.

What's more interesting about this chapter is Tobi's apparent familiarity with Kakashi, as evidenced by the strangely personal tone and choice of words he uses to describe Kakashi. If anything, this somewhat strengthens the Tobito theory. If Tobi isn't Obito, he may at least possess part of Obito's memories and personality (which is but another variant of the Tobito theory).


----------



## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Also, "EVIL SPOILER ROUND UP"
> 
> 1. "Tobi's eye is Obito's" is totally the intended message of the first set.
> 2. Tobi flipping the eye up with the Kanabi bridge in the background refers to his line about Kanabi bridge.
> ...



What were the animal images about?


----------



## Kujiro Anodite (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobito... WOW!


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

Jad said:


> What were the animal images about?


Tiger, Owl, Bear, Iguana, Spider.  The first letter spells out "Tobi's".


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

*sigh* - I expected more from Kishi, but really, after Nagato's story maybe I shouldn't have.

If the reveal is not handled well, this could be a deal breaker for some people. i.e. they stop reading the manga. 

I'll give it a few chapters to make sense.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

Fay said:


> I think it would be epic . It's a very original thing to do after all .



This isn`t a shoujo. So no, not epic.

Kishi has never given a shit about romance, and that`s a good thing. To have a big bad go bad because of it is just garbage.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Just read the spoiler thread. 18 pages for so little, but the content...


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Lol, Obito despaired and aimed to destroy the world because Kakashi failed to protect Rin. 

Laughter will kill me if this turns out true.


----------



## Moon Fang (Aug 11, 2012)

Exactly we can't figure them out without reading the chapter or having spoilers to confirm. We continue to guess but he doesn't give us any indication of being on the right track.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

Fuck it.

Still placing bets on Madara or Izuna.

Every single thing he says is also relevant to their relationship. Madara failed to defeat Hashirama even though his brother sacrificed himself so he could do it. ph


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Blue Bombardment said:


> Screw it. I'm officially placing my bets on Tobi being Rin.



Well she did transplant his eye, and Tobi did know how to do the same to Sauce, and probably helped Madara do it to Nagato


DUN DUN DUN!


@klue

He is an even bigger pussy than Naruto if that's true.


----------



## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

So Summary;

- Kakashi explains how he landed the attack (we knew this - _but needed to be said I guess_)
- Tobi says he is using Obito's eye (we knew this - _but needed to be said I guess_)
- Naruto emotional flashback pump up (Really.........)
- Kyuubi wants to fight with Naruto at full power (Really..........)

So overall, pretty shit chapter for people who aren't _slow......._

*Reaffirmation type chapter* Classic Kishi.


----------



## Fay (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> *This isn`t a shoujo*. So no, not epic.


Exactly :33! Kishi would basically be one of the first mangaka to do this in a popular shounen manga...that's very original.



> Kishi has never given a shit about romance, and that`s a good thing. To have a big bad go bad because of it is just garbage.


Maybe he wants to try something new .


----------



## Nagato Sennin (Aug 11, 2012)

It was never said how Rin died was it?


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Aug 11, 2012)

And all the while people are gonna continue to call the TOBITO followers utterly irrational/presumptuous/in denial/desperate.

NF, you never change.


----------



## solid-soul (Aug 11, 2012)

i really hope tobi is obito, do it kishi


----------



## Federer (Aug 11, 2012)

Nagato Sennin said:


> It was never said how Rin died was it?



AIDS,

Kakashi didn't use protection, he didn't 'protect' her.


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

Fay said:


> Exactly :33! Kishi would basically be one of the first mangaka to do this in a popular shounen manga...that's very original.
> 
> 
> Maybe he wants to try something new .



No Fay.Stop it ,this would be awful.Sometimes not being orginal can be really good.


----------



## Kujiro Anodite (Aug 11, 2012)

Awwww. Kyuubi and Naruto are best buddies!!


----------



## Shattering (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi has obito's eye but he is not Obito, this chapter made it clear


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

Nagato Sennin said:


> It was never said how Rin died was it?



She`s Zetsu.


----------



## Wiseman Deathphantom (Aug 11, 2012)

Nagato Sennin said:


> It was never said how Rin died was it?



Maybe Rin didn't die at all. Maybe she was just "lost" - perhaps through defection to other village, or becoming a missing nin.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Lol, Obito despaired and aimed to destroy the world because Kakashi failed to protect Rin.
> 
> Laughter will kill me if this turns out true.



Well, it can't be anything else. We know what Kakashi's promise to Rin was.

No too mention Obito admired Yondaime and Yondaime acted flawlessly as far as we know


----------



## Ginkurage (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> Well she did transplant his eye, and Tobi did know how to do the same to Sauce, and probably helped Madara do it to Nagato
> 
> 
> DUN DUN DUN!



IT ALL MAKES SENSE MAN


----------



## Kali95 (Aug 11, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> The eye theory IS a Tobito theory. Has been for at least as long as I've been a member of these forums. I don't know where this sudden shift in belief came from where the eye theory is suddenly no longer classified as a Tobito theory, but quite frankly? This is really pathetic on your parts.



So all of the people spamming "Tobi is Obito" in this thread are actually saying "Tobi's eye is Obito's"? What sense does that make. If the Tobito theory was just his eye, then it wouldn't be called that because it's not Obito, it's someone else using his eye.

If you go look through the identity thread, most of theories clearly think it's Obito himself. Which is still complete nonsense by the way.


----------



## Moon Fang (Aug 11, 2012)

Pretty much a talkative chapter.


----------



## Federer (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi is Rin with Obito's eye.


----------



## Recal (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> Fuck it.
> 
> Still placing bets on Madara or Izuna.
> 
> Every single thing he says is also relevant to their relationship. *Madara failed to defeat Hashirama even though his brother sacrificed himself so he could do it.* ph



QFT.  I'm still not convinced Tobi = Obito.  An eye means nothing, and if the logic that "well, he knows loads about Kakashi" means that Tobi must be Obito, then how come Tobi knows so much about goddamned everyone?  Why does he know so much about what happened at the VotE and Madara/Hashirama?

Not convinced yet.


----------



## Xin (Aug 11, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Killer B: But?why would it be linked to that guy?s jutsu?
Kakashi: Where did you get that eye from?
Masked man: Where I got it from? Well?if you insist on asking, I got it during the battle at Kannabi Bridge?at around the time when you began to be known as the Ninja of the Copying Eye.
Kakashi: !!!! ?you?.
Masked man: It should?ve already been said! Simply put! You who are capable of nothing more than unfulfilled promises no longer has any worth or value! Even if you have regrets, it is too late! Reality will continue to callously march forward! You who have always been pragmatic and practical should understand. No promises or hopes will ever come true in this world! And that is precisely why this world must go to sleep underneath the eye of the Infinite Tsukyumoni. It will create a world where heroes will no longer have to make excuses in front of the tomb of dead heroes.
Kakashi: Hahaha!
Gai: Hey! Kakashi, are you alright?




wow.. it really sounds like Tobi is mad about something Kakashi did ("unfulfilled promises").. maybe something about Rins death?


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Aug 11, 2012)

Kali95 said:


> So all of the people spamming "Tobi is Obito" in this thread are actually saying "Tobi's eye is Obito's"? What sense does that make. If the Tobito theory was just his eye, then it wouldn't be called that because it's not Obito, it's someone else using his eye.



Not every Tobito supporter follows the same theories, but those various theories all fall under the category of Tobito.

Don't make me pull out quotes from 2007 that illustrate exactly what I mean.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi is second coming of Inari obviously. The same "there aren't any heroes in this world!" kind of speech.


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 11, 2012)

If Tobi turns out Rin, that day would be very historic


----------



## Kali95 (Aug 11, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Not every Tobito supporter follows the same theories, but those various theories all fall under the category of Tobito.
> 
> Don't make me pull out quotes from 2007 that illustrate exactly what I mean.



How does it fall into that category? If Tobi was for example revealed as Izuna with Obito's eye, then we're going to call him Izuna, not Tobito/Obito.


----------



## Rain (Aug 11, 2012)

Yet another shit chapter in a row, it seems...


----------



## Voodoo chile (Aug 11, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> If Tobi turns out Rin, that day would be very historic



It would give a whole new meaning to his (her?) desire to obtain the "Rin negan" from Nagato's corpse, he he.


----------



## Recal (Aug 11, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> If Tobi turns out Rin, that day would be very historic



I dunno why, and it's weird, but if Tobi = Rin, I would be cool with it. (Not sure if it makes any more sense than Tobi = Obito, though.)


----------



## Virgofenix (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi is Obito. I don't want to live in this world anymore.


----------



## Tony Lou (Aug 11, 2012)

So if Danzou's Sharingan was Shisui's, does it mean he actually was Shisui?


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Tobi is second coming of Inari obviously. The same "there aren't any heroes in this world!" kind of speech.



He is Nagato v2 actually
Taught Konoha's values by Naruto's teachers and feels betrayed because his friend is dead. Has been given Zetsu's goo instead of Rinnegan, but that's it. All the rest is the same. Down to Madara's Rinnegan

Except Nagato had godly hype and was not someone Kakashi should logically be able to solo.


----------



## shintebukuro (Aug 11, 2012)

Kali95 said:


> How does it fall into that category? If Tobi was for example revealed as Izuna with Obito's eye, then we're going to call him Izuna, not Tobito/Obito.



It doesn't matter what you'd like to call it _today_, because 7 years ago people called it "Tobito," and there was never any official name change.


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

Another thingKyuubi: Sorry...this fellow was entrapped by that fellow's words and schemes.​It's sort of awkward, but the Kyuubi is saying that Tobi was led down the "dark path" by Madara, right?  Or is he talking about himself being entrapped by Naruto's words?


----------



## Rouge Angle (Aug 11, 2012)

Luiz said:


> So if Danzou's Sharingan was Shisui's, does it mean he actually was Shisui?



Clearly. 

But like other people have been saying an eye doesn't mean shit.


----------



## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

If anythign this chapter practically killed the theory that he is Obito "in mind". What sense would it make to reveal his identity before the mask even came off?


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Another thingKyuubi: Sorry...this fellow was entrapped by that fellow's words and schemes.​It's sort of awkward, but the Kyuubi is saying that Tobi was led down the "dark path" by Madara, right?  Or is he talking about himself being entrapped by Naruto's words?



Seems like it.


----------



## Gabe (Aug 11, 2012)

so if it is obito i bet he will make rin his wife or something in his genjutsu world. that still dont explain the  age difference between him and kakashi in during the kyuubi attack.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Aug 11, 2012)

Kali95 said:


> How does it fall into that category? If Tobi was for example revealed as Izuna with Obito's eye, then we're going to call him Izuna, not Tobito/Obito.



Whether you like it or not, it has always been considered a Tobito theory and up until the last month or so it has always been treated with the same amount of contempt and ridicule as every other Tobito theory by nay-sayers.


----------



## SaiST (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Another thingKyuubi: Sorry...this fellow was entrapped by that fellow's words and schemes.​It's sort of awkward, but the Kyuubi is saying that Tobi was led down the "dark path" by Madara, right?  Or is he talking about himself being entrapped by Naruto's words?


I assumed he was talking about Naruto.


----------



## Tony Lou (Aug 11, 2012)

Rouge Angle said:


> Clearly.
> 
> But like other people have been saying an eye doesn't mean shit.



Just remind me to stay away from the Telegrams when the chapter is out.


----------



## Recal (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Another thingKyuubi: Sorry...this fellow was entrapped by that fellow's words and schemes.​It's sort of awkward, but the Kyuubi is saying that Tobi was led down the "dark path" by Madara, right?  Or is he talking about himself being entrapped by Naruto's words?



Again... this could refer to Izuna (if Kurama's not talking about Naruto, that is. I'm not 100% what's happening there.)

Madara: "I need your eyes so I can curbstomp Hashirama!"
Izuna: "I don't know..."
Madara: *Madara uses Convince.  It is super effective.*
Izuna: "Still not sure, but if it'll bring glory to the Uchiha name, then I guess..."


----------



## Kanki (Aug 11, 2012)

Getting sick of waiting


----------



## Kishido (Aug 11, 2012)

To 99,9 % it is Obito... If someone is using his eye instead it would be shit in my eyes. Still a few things have to be explained like the Kyuubi attack and why Obito suddenly looked like a grown man while Kakashi and Co still looked like mid teens


----------



## UchihaSage (Aug 11, 2012)

Spoiler

Kakashi and Gai use a dual tech on Tobi at high speed Sharingan taijutsu combination. Tobi calmly gets confused then Naruto does a rasengan in his face and the mask breaks.

Hinata arrives at the battlefield. Tobi shoots her with his Rinnegan Lazer Beam attack. She shrinks in size to 3 inches, then jumps into Naruto's pocket.

Tobi reveals that he is in fact a plant monster made from the body of Uchiha Izuna and Uchiha Obito with 6 eyes, 2 sharingan, 2 rinnegan, and 2 byakugan.

So Naruto does Rasengan on him so Tobi goes in his pocket and steals his gameboy and Tobi eats the 3 inch little Hinata. But Hinata explodes with love hearts.


----------



## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Whether you like it or not, it has always been considered a Tobito theory and up until the last month or so it has always been treated with the same amount of contempt and ridicule as every other Tobito theory by nay-sayers.



I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the people who hate on the theory are referring to the one that he is Obito in mind/body/soul. Then again I don't read this section very often.


----------



## Moon Fang (Aug 11, 2012)

You're really starting to annoy me with those.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Whether you like it or not, it has always been considered a Tobito theory and *up until the last month or so it has always been treated with the same amount of contempt and ridicule as every other Tobito theory by nay-sayers.*



If I may speak for a few dozen self-proclaimed anti-Tobito members, most of us accepted that the eye was a strong possibility. It was definitely not met with much adversity in the last year beyond `It was squished.`


----------



## Turrin (Aug 11, 2012)

Sounds like a boring chapter to me, hopefully there is some fighting in it between the talking.


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

How many promises has Kakashi made?  I think it's just the Rin one and the "Sasuke will be alright" one that he made to Sakura.


----------



## Rouge Angle (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> If I may speak for a few dozen self-proclaimed anti-Tobito members, most of us accepted that the eye was a strong possibility. It was definitely not met with much adversity in the last year beyond `It was squished.`



Yeah the only argument I ever had against the eye was that I (wrongly) assumed having a fucking great boulder land on you would squash it.


----------



## Saizo sarutobi (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi is Obito!!!!OMG


----------



## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

Turrin said:


> Sounds like a boring chapter to me, hopefully there is some fighting in it between the talking.



Nah bro. I highly doubt it. No fighting, looks like it's just a big explanation chapter. Like I said in the prediction thread.


----------



## Slayer (Aug 11, 2012)

Those spoilers.


----------



## Recal (Aug 11, 2012)

Rouge Angle said:


> Yeah the only argument I ever had against the eye was that I (wrongly) assumed having a fucking great boulder land on you would squash it.



The eye is clearly the only part of the wild Uchiha that is impervious to rocks.


----------



## Aggeri (Aug 11, 2012)

Shattering said:


> What if Tobi is Kakashi's father?



Im with you! Just for the sake of throwing a curveball!


----------



## auem (Aug 11, 2012)

Blue Bombardment said:


> Not sure if it's been said as I couldn't be bothered reading all the posts before this but *Tobi = Rin* anyone?
> 
> I mean they got the eye from the battle on Kanabi Bridge and seem to be incredibly spiteful towards Kakashi for not fullfilling some sort of promise.



you know,not only body shape but women  voices are also distinguishable from men....if tobi is really rin,then whole narutoverse is quite...


----------



## Timeshift (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi says he got it during the battle where Obito unlocked his sharingan. The only ones to make sense are either an observer that did not participate in the battle, or Obito himself.

What Tobi says to Naruto can indicate two things:

1) He was entrusted with something he despised. What would someone have entrusted him with that he despised? Was he someone very important and trusted by the Uchiha or Konoha? If so, does that fit Obito?

2) He entrusted someone with something they despised. Who did he entrust with what? Was it Kakashi who he entrusted with the protection of Rin? Did Kakashi despise Rin?


----------



## slickcat (Aug 11, 2012)

meh chapter, 2 weeks for the next one hopefully we get some dimensional Nii sen rendan combo


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

This chapter is sweet vindication for the supporters of the tobito theory that were ridiculed for theory all these years.


----------



## Wiseman Deathphantom (Aug 11, 2012)

Aggeri said:


> Im with you! Just for the sake of throwing a curveball!



Or his long-lost brother. Or maybe Kishimoto himself. eh.


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 11, 2012)

Neither this chapter comfirms Tobito nor kills it. 

But I do wonder how he learnt the story behind the eye


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Another thingKyuubi: Sorry...this fellow was entrapped by that fellow's words and schemes.​It's sort of awkward, but the Kyuubi is saying that Tobi was led down the "dark path" by Madara, right?  Or is he talking about himself being entrapped by Naruto's words?



Kurama appears to have some words that he must "absolutely say" to the masked fellow, so could he know about Tobi's past and has just not felt the need to speak up till now?

Also considering poor Tobi's rant to Kakashi about failed heros, he obviously has a sob-story to share.

For now, I'll go with him being the one led astray by Madara.


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

Another thing is that the Obito references are sort of "hardcore", aren't they?  Like, what percentage of readers remember what the Kanabi bridge is or remember Kakashi visiting the tomb of dead heroes?


----------



## Recal (Aug 11, 2012)

Timeshift said:


> Tobi says he got it during the battle where Obito unlocked his sharingan. The only ones to make sense are either an observer that did not participate in the battle, or Obito himself.
> 
> What Tobi says to Naruto can indicate two things:
> 
> ...



Possibly arranging to have his brother revived via Rinnegan after everything said brother did to him?


----------



## Edo Madara (Aug 11, 2012)

Its just confirmed what many people here predicted : he using obito's eye and that's it

still think its izuna or maybe madara's clone


----------



## Leptirica (Aug 11, 2012)

> Naruto (Kyuubi-form): O-o-o-!



Um... O-o-o? What is he doing there?


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

auem said:


> you know,not only body shape but women  voices are also distinguishable from men....if tobi is really rin,then whole narutoverse is quite...



You know... never in my life I'd think Orochimaru's seiyuu is a woman...  That Japan


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

auem said:


> you know,not only body shape but women  voices are also distinguishable from men....if tobi is really rin,then whole narutoverse is quite...



Maybe there`s a voice changer under the mask, and Tobi does always wear baggy clothing.

Fem!Tobi I`m down with, but not Rin. I just want a female Zetsu blob.


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Leptirica said:


> Um... O-o-o? What is he doing there?



Turning into a super sayan.


----------



## Slayer (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Another thing is that the Obito references are sort of "hardcore", aren't they?  Like, what percentage of readers remember what the Kanabi bridge is or remember Kakashi visiting the tomb of dead heroes?



Only those that visit forums and stuff, I would bet.

Other than that, No one I know that read's naruto even remembers that stuff.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

Ah I get it.

Tobi is the feminine personified. She acts the way she does because she wants revenge on Kishi.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Another thing is that the Obito references are sort of "hardcore", aren't they?  Like, what percentage of readers remember what the Kanabi bridge is or remember Kakashi visiting the tomb of dead heroes?



I agree. 

The thing I think people forget is that we're hardcore fans who remember everything, and things we think are obvious might not be so apparent to casual readers. So people here may think that the Obito stuff is becoming so obvious that it must be a red herring, but that may not be the case at all for the casual crowd.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Another thing is that the Obito references are sort of "hardcore", aren't they?  Like, what percentage of readers remember what the Kanabi bridge is or remember Kakashi visiting the tomb of dead heroes?



For the second one, pretty much everyone, I think. It's the reason he is always late, which was his main trait when the manga was at his peak of popularity.

For the second one, I don't think many remember the names, but remember the birth of "Sharingan Kakashi" and the word bridge should be enough to connect the dots.


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Another thing is that the Obito references are sort of "hardcore", aren't they?  Like, what percentage of readers remember what the Kanabi bridge is or remember Kakashi visiting the tomb of dead heroes?



Yep, we're discussing the theory for years now but from Kishi's perspective this is all different. In the chapter no one use the "O" word. This seems more like a prep to me.

My all money is on , this is going to be so lame


----------



## Amarillo del Bosque Verde (Aug 11, 2012)

I kinda love how the theory about Tobi having at the very least Obito's eye went from:

_"there's no way that's Obito's eye! the eye was crushed! crushed I say!"_ 

To:

_"Oh... well we knew it was Obito's eye all along, it was so obvious it hurts!"_ 

All in the span of a just few chapters.


----------



## auem (Aug 11, 2012)

no way tobi is obito...
else out of all the times he watched kakashi carrying out his monologue in front of tomb-stone,he would have performed a 'thousand years of pain' against him at least once by now....surely...


----------



## Timeshift (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Another thingKyuubi: Sorry...this fellow was entrapped by that fellow's words and schemes.​It's sort of awkward, but the Kyuubi is saying that Tobi was led down the "dark path" by Madara, right?  Or is he talking about himself being entrapped by Naruto's words?



I read it as Naruto being entrapped by Yondaime's and Jiraya's words and schemes (the whole seal Kurama in Naruto to defeat Tobi), as Tobi just referred to Yondaime and Jirayia.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> Ah I get it.
> 
> Tobi is the feminine personified. She acts the way she does because she wants revenge on Kishi.



Feminine personfication that kills other women?


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

Interesting chapter in terms of learning about Tobi but.. Seems like too many flashbacks and explanation for things we had already figured out.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Timeshift said:


> Tobi says he got it during the battle where Obito unlocked his sharingan. The only ones to make sense are either an observer that did not participate in the battle, or Obito himself.
> 
> What Tobi says to Naruto can indicate two things:
> 
> ...



You are missing the point.
He is not the one who was entrusted anything, Kakashi was.

He asks Naruto to imagine the disappointment and the rage of thoses who sacrificed himself for him so that Naruto can empathize with his own feelings.

Here he is saying bluntly Kakashi failed him. (that part makes the despicable Tobito more or less inevitable)


----------



## Godammit (Aug 11, 2012)

Jesus, all this prediction stuff you guys are doing are seriousy stupid.. You are ruining your enjoyment for reading the manga chapter.. Just chillax and wait for the chapter to come out..


----------



## Xin (Aug 11, 2012)

Thank you so much Kishi! 

If Tobi would be anyone else than Obito, it would be so damn boring :sleepy


----------



## Deana (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> Well she did transplant his eye, and Tobi did know how to do the same to Sauce, and probably helped Madara do it to Nagato
> 
> 
> DUN DUN DUN!


Rin may have stitched Obito back together again. Or maybe Orochimaru did it!  Just imagine him strolling through the forest during the war . . . his Uchia sensors indicate Uchia somewhere near so he rushes to the newly formed grave.  He stitches the boy together again using other Uchia body parts but before his plan to use the body for his new one can come to fruition . . . Tobi becomes a goodreal boy and runs for the hills. 

Orochimaru:


----------



## narutored23 (Aug 11, 2012)

Timeshift said:


> Tobi says he got it during the battle where Obito unlocked his sharingan. The only ones to make sense are either an observer that did not participate in the battle, or Obito himself.
> 
> What Tobi says to Naruto can indicate two things:
> 
> ...


Dude you just said it yourself right here tobi is obito. Let's just obito entrusted rin and his right eye to kakashi and he failed.


----------



## TroLLSama (Aug 11, 2012)

Сonfirmed .


Orochimaru is best villian of all times.

Tobi , just die.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Feminine personfication that kills other women?



She`s just pragmatic. Like she said.

Also, sarcasm.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

Yeah. If, after all this, it turned out to be Izuna or Kagami (who are completely irrelevant) it would be super anticlimactic. At this point I'll just admit that Obito is likely and hope Kishi can make sense of it.


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

Leptirica said:


> Um... O-o-o? What is he doing there?


Going super-saiyan.  (powering up bijuu-mode)


----------



## Velocity (Aug 11, 2012)

Amarillo del Bosque Verde said:


> I kinda love how the theory about Tobi having at the very least Obito's eye went from:
> 
> _"there's no way that's Obito's eye! the eye was crushed! crushed I say!"_
> 
> ...



A wild 'Rillo appears!


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Amarillo del Bosque Verde said:


> I kinda love how the theory about Tobi having at the very least Obito's eye went from:
> 
> _"there's no way that's Obito's eye! the eye was crushed! crushed I say!"_
> 
> ...



Isn't that standard operating procedure on such forums?

People used to ridicule those who maintained that Naruto's was the fourth hokage's son; later, when it was confirmed, everyone shifted their stance to it being, as you put it, painfully obvious.

There would be plenty of other examples, I presume.


----------



## Gunners (Aug 11, 2012)

Lol so they didn't even bother to collect Obito's body once the battle was over. Not only is that disrespectful it is incredibly stupid seeing as he housed the secrets to the Uchiha clan.


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 11, 2012)

Melas said:


> Isn't that standard operating procedure on such forums?
> 
> People used to ridicule those who maintained that Naruto's was the fourth hokage's son; later, when it was confirmed, everyone shifted their stance to it being, as you put it, painfully obvious.
> 
> There would be plenty of other examples, I presume.



Nagato and Karin being Uzumaki.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

At least, now, Tobi should die in about 5 chapters flashback of Rin's death ncluded. 
He is not a big player since he is just swayed by the mastermind 

He has absolutely no logical reason to be super strong either.

But the Uchiha dropout as Naruto's final villain of the war. This is epic troll.
I expect *them* to be Naruto's senile aunt or something like that now


----------



## auem (Aug 11, 2012)

i like the fact how kyubi took up the job of spokesperson for the gang....attabayo....


----------



## Kishido (Aug 11, 2012)

Things Kishi has to clear up

The whole Tobi/Madara/Nagato stuff... Who had what role... Obito couldn't be the one giving Nagato his Rinnegan, did Madara lived long anough to meet Obito and so on...
Kyuubi attack... Obito looked nothing like someone in the age of Kakashi, Gai and Co
The Tobi in Itachi's flashback... Who was it... The true Madara or Obito? He looked nothing like Obito with the hair
Who manipulated the Kazekage... Obito or Madara... 
Why Obito acting as Madara and no one is spotting that he isn't Madara himself... Even Kyuubi said the chakra is the same
and so on

Seriously something is really fishy here about...

Something really is fishy here


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 but isn't he the same as Naruto.  The failure who's super powerful from bloodline and gifts?


----------



## auem (Aug 11, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> *Nagato* and Karin being Uzumaki.



i don't remember seeing any theory of nagato being uzumaki before it was revealed......show me a proof....


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

KiShiDo said:


> Things Kishi has to clear up
> 
> The whole Tobi/Madara/Nagato stuff... Who had what role... Obito couldn't be the one giving Nagato his Rinnegan, did Madara lived long anough to meet Obito and so on...
> Kyuubi attack... Obito looked nothing like someone in the age of Kakashi, Gai and Co
> ...



Kurama says Tobi has been swayed by this fellow (Madara ?) words.

He is just another puppet. Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan.
When he was about to die, he turned Obito into Tobi. Both Nagato and Obito are irrelevant in the great scheme of things. They are just puppets.


----------



## SaiST (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Kurama says Tobi has been swayed by this fellow (Madara ?) words.


Pretty sure he's talkin' about himself and Naruto.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

KiShiDo said:


> Things Kishi has to clear up
> 
> The whole Tobi/Madara/Nagato stuff... Who had what role... Obito couldn't be the one giving Nagato his Rinnegan, did Madara lived long anough to meet Obito and so on...
> Kyuubi attack... Obito looked nothing like someone in the age of Kakashi, Gai and Co
> ...



Kyuubi recognizing Tobi in the flashback.

Tobi fapping over Hashirama.

Tobi sulking at VotE.

Kisame recognizing both long-haired and short-haired Tobi as the same person.

etc etc etc


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

I still don't get why people can't accepting getting MS = you become super strong.  Being able to use S/T to become unhittable with Sharingan prediction will mean your going to be strong.

We also saw Obito go from total chump to fighting on genius jounin Kakashi level after awakening a two tome sharingan.



PikaCheeka said:


> Kyuubi recognizing Tobi in the flashback.
> 
> Tobi fapping over Hashirama.
> 
> ...



Kurama also recognized Sasuke as Madara as well.  I think he just can sense evil chakra and recognized the eyes.


----------



## mayumi (Aug 11, 2012)

naruto X kyuubi is now cannon.


----------



## Edward Newgate (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Kurama says Tobi has been swayed by this fellow (Madara ?) words.
> 
> He is just another puppet. Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan.
> When he was about to die, he turned Obito into Tobi. Both Nagato and Obito are irrelevant in the great scheme of things. They are just puppets.


Madara was long dead by the time of Obito's death. When he was brought back via Edo Tensei he said, "You've grown up, Nagato" or something along these lines. He thought Nagato used his Rinnegan to bring him back. It wouldn't make sense for Madara to say this as if the last time he seen Nagato was when Nagato was a child, but died only 17 years ago, a while after the whole business between Nagato and Hanzou.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

SaiST said:


> Pretty sure he's talkin' about himself and Naruto.



I doubt it. He noticed he needed to talk to Tobi after hearing his disarray.
Then he insisted a lot on Yondaime to put through Tobi's head that Yondaime's will was still here and Yondaime would not be disappointed by Naruto.

Pretty sure he knows it's Obito he met earlier via Kushina. His words are targeted to someone who knew Yondaime.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

Hopefully Tobi is just using Obito's eyes and isn't Obito.


----------



## Final Jutsu (Aug 11, 2012)

Kishi has ways to explain Tobi = obito

Body size explanation = We know his body is constructed at least partially out of zetsu goo.  That was shown even on the kyuubi night when Minato's rasengan destroyed his arm..

Battle expertise explanation = Zetsu records fights.  A lot of them by the looks.  Tobi has commented that he views these fights.  It's possible that Zetsu transfers this battle experience to Tobi.  Have thought this for a while.


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Another thingKyuubi: Sorry...this fellow was entrapped by that fellow's words and schemes.​It's sort of awkward, but the Kyuubi is saying that Tobi was led down the "dark path" by Madara, right?  Or is he talking about himself being entrapped by Naruto's words?






Timeshift said:


> I read it as Naruto being entrapped by Yondaime's and Jiraya's words and schemes (the whole seal Kurama in Naruto to defeat Tobi), as Tobi just referred to Yondaime and Jirayia.



What's wrong with the reading comprehension around here? That line is as plain as pie. Kurama is saying that Naruto was being swayed by Tobi's words. Nothing else.

Tobi was talking about how Naruto would feel about failing to live up to the hopes Jiraiya and Minato entrusted him with. Obviously Naruto deep down is insecure whether he can actually succeed where even Minato and Jiraiya failed to end the cycle of hatred is a momentous task afterall.
That's why Kurama gave Naruto that pep talk.



auem said:


> you know,not only body shape but women  voices are also distinguishable from men....if tobi is really rin,then whole narutoverse is quite...



in a world with bodytakeover jutsu what does gender really mean?


----------



## Gilgamesh (Aug 11, 2012)

> What's wrong with the reading comprehension around here? That line is as plain as pie. Kurama is saying that Naruto was being swayed by Tobi's words. Nothing else.



Thank you, learn to read people


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

Final Jutsu said:


> Kishi has ways to explain Tobi = obito
> 
> Body size explanation = We know his body is constructed at least partially out of zetsu goo.  That was shown even on the kyuubi night when Minato's rasengan destroyed his arm..
> 
> Battle expertise explanation = Zetsu records fights.  A lot of them by the looks.  Tobi has commented that he views these fights.  It's possible that Zetsu transfers this battle experience to Tobi.  Have thought this for a while.



I wish people would stop acting like the ONLY problems with the Tobito theory are those in reference to age and experience, the two things Kishi can most easily bullshit.

There are far more problems than that, and they`re not easily explainable. At all.

Kishi recently said he hasn`t had a way to make Kakashi relevant so that`s why Kakashi`s year has always been put off. That means that if Tobito is true, it was not decided by the author until very recently. He`ll never be able to explain everything.


----------



## Hazuki (Aug 11, 2012)

i think tobi is just a clone that madara creat with dna uchicha and senju before he died 

then somehow tobi was abble to find obito sharingan and creat a new power link to his uchicha and senju dna 

so tobi is madara , he has the same chakra , same memory 

even kyubi said ' you..'  when tobi summoned him during the konoha attack 

only madara can summoned kyubi 

even minato supposed that he was madara 

as soon as tobi learn that the true madara was summon he called himself ' no one ' 

because he is just a clone of the real madara in a zetsu body with obito  sharingan


----------



## Ginkurage (Aug 11, 2012)

I mean think about it people, this entire manga Kishi has been accused of being sexist against women. His ultimate redemption is revealing that one of the biggest candidates for final villain right now is actually a woman.

Tobi = Rin, join the movement.


----------



## solid-soul (Aug 11, 2012)

zetsu......


----------



## shyakugaun (Aug 11, 2012)

well so much for Tobi = final villain, Lord Madara officially takes the reigns as Final Villain


----------



## auem (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> What's wrong with the reading comprehension around here? That line is as plain as pie. Kurama is saying that Naruto was being swayed by Tobi's words. Nothing else.
> 
> Tobi was talking about how Naruto would feel about failing to live up to the hopes Jiraiya and Minato entrusted him with. Obviously Naruto deep down is insecure whether he can actually succeed where even Minato and Jiraiya failed to end the cycle of hatred is a momentous task afterall.
> That's why Kurama gave Naruto that pep talk.
> ...


i will never accept that a kind girl like Rin could fall so much..whatever may be the circumstances ...


----------



## Cyclonic (Aug 11, 2012)

I fuck bad bitches with a passion.


----------



## forkandspoon (Aug 11, 2012)

Loving these spoilers, hope they are true.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

shyakugaun said:


> well so much for Tobi = final villain, Lord Madara officially takes the reigns as Final Villain



There certainly is no better candidate as of this moment.


----------



## Timeshift (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> You are missing the point.
> He is not the one who was entrusted anything, Kakashi was.
> 
> He asks Naruto to imagine the disappointment and the rage of thoses who sacrificed himself for him so that Naruto can empathize with his own feelings.
> ...



No, I gave two meanings of what he said - the second one was exactly what you just said. So I didn't miss any point.


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 11, 2012)

auem said:


> i don't remember seeing any theory of nagato being uzumaki before it was revealed......show me a proof....



There were theories (mostly crack) since it's revealed he has red hair.



auem said:


> i will never accept that a kind girl like Rin could fall so much..whatever may be the circumstances ...



Breaking Bad


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Edward Newgate said:


> Madara was long dead by the time of Obito's death. When he was brought back via Edo Tensei he said, "You've grown up, Nagato" or something along these lines. He thought Nagato used his Rinnegan to bring him back. It wouldn't make sense for Madara to say this as if the last time he seen Nagato was when Nagato was a child, but died only 17 years ago, a while after the whole business between Nagato and Hanzou.



If Obito = Tobi knows Madara = Madara did not die until at least 18 years ago.  

Nagato did not look really powerful before Yahiko died or at least his personality was not strong.  He would have been like 20 something we can assume since Danzo looked younger.  We could assume that Madara was real old and could be like many people in this manga consider everyone else kids.  Kakuzu called everyone kids pretty much because he was old as hell.


----------



## Timeshift (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> What's wrong with the reading comprehension around here? That line is as plain as pie. Kurama is saying that Naruto was being swayed by Tobi's words. Nothing else.



No, it said "this fellow" and "that fellow". That is NOT plain, whatever you might think.


----------



## auem (Aug 11, 2012)

Cyclonic said:


> I fuck bad bitches with a passion.



all virgins claim that....


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> What's wrong with the reading comprehension around here? That line is as plain as pie. Kurama is saying that Naruto was being swayed by Tobi's words. Nothing else.
> 
> Tobi was talking about how Naruto would feel about failing to live up to the hopes Jiraiya and Minato entrusted him with. Obviously Naruto deep down is insecure whether he can actually succeed where even Minato and Jiraiya failed to end the cycle of hatred is a momentous task afterall.
> That's why Kurama gave Naruto that pep talk.



Except he didn't Naruto that pep talk, he gave Tobi and Kakashi that pep talk.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi=Izuna theory is dead.


----------



## Lurko (Aug 11, 2012)

Hahah yltobi is goona be  obito.


----------



## Edward Newgate (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> If Obito = Tobi knows Madara = Madara did not die until at least 18 years ago.
> 
> Nagato did not look really powerful before Yahiko died or at least his personality was not strong.  He would have been like 20 something we can assume since Danzo looked younger.  We could assume that Madara was real old and could be like many people in this manga consider everyone else kids.  Kakuzu called everyone kids pretty much because he was old as hell.


Fact is, Madara implied that the last time he'd seen Nagato is when Nagato was a child. Nagato was already using the Rinnegan over 17 years ago, awakening Gedo Mazou even.


----------



## Cyclonic (Aug 11, 2012)

auem said:


> all virgins claim that....



And all men prove it


----------



## Guiness (Aug 11, 2012)

oh gawd.

dont let tobi be obito.

please, Talos, divines, don't let it be true!! ;_;


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

The thing that's most retarded about anti-Obito theories is when Tobi says something that sounds like Obito people say it must be his body than.  What kind of logic is that I don't know.


----------



## mayumi (Aug 11, 2012)

so obito who might be tobi was so pissed that kakashi didn't protect rin, decided to play madara and cause a war against senju and uchiha and cause the death of his sensei and wife, left naruto a orphan. yup, that's the hero obito was remembered as, now just a villan cause kakashi couldn't fulfill his promise to protect a useless girl named rin. 

WHY?!!!!!!!


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Edward Newgate said:


> Fact is, Madara implied that the last time he'd seen Nagato is when Nagato was a child. Nagato was already using the Rinnegan over 17 years ago, awakening Gedo Mazou even.



My brother moved to Austraila and had to leave behind his youngest son.  He did not come back for 10 years.  Does that mean that he died since the last time he saw his son he was 6 vs. 16?


----------



## rubberguy (Aug 11, 2012)

I can bet all i have on it tobi ain't obito, we all know tobi have a shitload of eyes, him havin obito's eye means nothing


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Edward Newgate said:


> Fact is, Madara implied that the last time he'd seen Nagato is when Nagato was a child. Nagato was already using the Rinnegan over 17 years ago, awakening Gedo Mazou even.



Don't forget Madara is as old as Kakuzu and everyone is a child to Kakuzu.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> Tobi=Izuna theory is dead.



Do elaborate.

Explain exactly how nothing he says is relevant to Izuna. 

_Nothing._

Go.


----------



## Guiness (Aug 11, 2012)

Raven, obito fans are desperate at this point. 

oh i can imagine it... kishi, building up all of this stuff for it to make it seem as if its obito and then BAM! its someone totally different. 

make it happen kishi!


----------



## Squeek (Aug 11, 2012)

tobi collected eyes... if people cant realize... he has a collection of sharingan in his secret lab. Just because he has Obito's eyes does not necessarily mean hes Obito.


----------



## Raiden (Aug 11, 2012)

I still can't believe that Naruto of all people is allowing this guy to affect his judgement. Lives are at stake because of your decisions, Naruto. You can't afford to fold at a time like this.


----------



## TNPS1984 (Aug 11, 2012)

I don't get where all the Tobi = Obito fuzz about. If anything, this chapter only proves someone else is using Obito's eye. 

When Kakashi asked where Tobi got his Sharingan, Tobi replied that he got it during Kannabi bridge. Now if Tobi is indeed Obito, why and how would he say he got it around that time? He's been carrying his eyeball in the socket for his entire life.


----------



## Guiness (Aug 11, 2012)

mayumi said:


> so obito who might be tobi was so pissed that kakashi didn't protect rin, decided to play madara and cause a war against senju and uchiha and cause the death of his sensei and wife, left naruto a orphan. yup, that's the hero obito was remembered as, now just a villan cause kakashi couldn't fulfill his promise to protect a useless girl named rin.
> 
> WHY?!!!!!!!



when you put it like that... it really helps the fact that if kishi ever did make tobi obito, it would be a retarded thing to do.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

mayumi said:


> so obito who might be tobi was so pissed that kakashi didn't protect rin, decided to play madara and cause a war against senju and uchiha and cause the death of his sensei and wife, left naruto a orphan. yup, that's the hero obito was remembered as, now just a villan cause kakashi couldn't fulfill his promise to protect a useless girl named rin.
> 
> WHY?!!!!!!!



Kishi thinks it's awesome and romantic.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

TNPS1984 said:


> I don't get where all the Tobi = Obito fuzz about. If anything, this chapter only proves someone else is using Obito's eye.
> 
> When Kakashi asked where Tobi got his Sharingan, Tobi replied that he got it during Kannabi bridge. Now if Tobi is indeed Obito, why and how would he say he got it around that time? He's been carrying his eyeball in the socket for his entire life.



That's where he awakened it though.


----------



## Guiness (Aug 11, 2012)

Raiden said:


> I still can't believe that Naruto of all people is allowing this guy to affect his judgement. Lives are at stake because of your decisions, Naruto. You can't afford to fold at a time like this.



agreed.

but even more so, the kyuubi 

the fucking kyuubi 

i'm so disappointed to see how far he has fallen.


----------



## auem (Aug 11, 2012)

foreign said:


> Raven, obito fans are desperate at this point.
> 
> oh i can imagine it... kishi, building up all of this stuff for it to make it seem as if its obito and then BAM! its someone totally different.
> 
> make it happen kishi!



i too suspect that......at best tobi can be obito+someone else.....obito alone is not sufficient to add up to everything....


----------



## TNPS1984 (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> That's where he awakened it though.



That's not the question Kakashi asked Tobi, and besides there is no indication that Tobi is even using MS. He has only one jutsu unlike MS which provide user access to unlock many offensive jutsu.


----------



## Guiness (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Kishi thinks it's awesome and romantic.



what do japanese know about romance? 



Ginko25 said:


> That's where he awakened it though.


makes no sense for him to awakened it there (im assuming you refer to the MS) as if he did, kakashi would have had his as well.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Squeek said:


> tobi collected eyes... if people cant realize... he has a collection of sharingan in his secret lab. Just because he has Obito's eyes does not necessarily mean hes Obito.



Why would Tobi be pissed at Kakashi for not keeping a promise?


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

Wonder if we'll figure out How Kakashi got MS now it's all coming together.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

Raiden said:


> I still can't believe that Naruto of all people is allowing this guy to affect his judgement. Lives are at stake because of your decisions, Naruto. You can't afford to fold at a time like this.



I actually like that Naruto had insecurities like that and how Tobi used them against Naruto, though the execution could have been better.


----------



## BringerOfCarnage (Aug 11, 2012)

Aww crap... I don't like where Kishi is going with this.


----------



## Guiness (Aug 11, 2012)

auem said:


> i too suspect that......at best tobi can be obito+someone else.....*obito alone is not sufficient to add up to everything*....



my point exactly.



TNPS1984 said:


> That's not the question Kakashi asked Tobi, and besides there is no indication that Tobi is even using MS. He has only one jutsu unlike MS which provide user access to unlock many offensive jutsu.



Another question that must be answered as well: How is Tobi using what is apparently an MS jutsu without having the MS?


----------



## k2nice (Aug 11, 2012)

This chapter has destroyed many theories.


----------



## Edward Newgate (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> My brother moved to Austraila and had to leave behind his youngest son.  He did not come back for 10 years.  Does that mean that he died since the last time he saw his son he was 6 vs. 16?


No, but do you actually believe that Madara won't keep an eye on Nagato the entire time if he could?


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Raiden said:


> I still can't believe that Naruto of all people is allowing this guy to affect his judgement. Lives are at stake because of your decisions, Naruto. You can't afford to fold at a time like this.



Kishi is incapable of writing a stead-fast and consistent protagonist, or any character for that matter.

Naruto has to be portrayed in a state of self-doubt to create drama in this encounter, just as with Pein. The hero has to overcome that doubt and find strength that he needs to defeat the joker of the villains that Kishi lines up.

Its utterly moronic to lend any significance to Tobi's babbling, but that's Kishi for you. I suppose he considers that Tobi comes across as profound.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Edward Newgate said:


> No, but do you actually believe that Madara won't keep an eye on Nagato the entire time if he could?



Madara may have been too old to keep and eye on him or maybe thought him dead for a while.  I mean even J-man thought they were dead at one point.


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

Timeshift said:


> No, it said "this fellow" and "that fellow". That is NOT plain, whatever you might think.



To you maybe not, to me it is. Just look at the context. Tobi is talking to Naruto and all Naruto does is "..." and then when Kurama starts talking we get this line about Naruto faintly smiling and at the very end he's all fired up. Like I said reading comprehension.



Ginko25 said:


> Except he didn't Naruto that pep talk, he gave Tobi and Kakashi that pep talk.



Read the context.


----------



## mayumi (Aug 11, 2012)

New oh wait no, just another recurring theme of Naruto. Students always kill their hokage sensei's. Kakashi was hokage for few minutes, he better be ready cause Sasuke is going t kill him.

regarding those last few lines kyuubi talking and referencing whoever, we won't have a clear picture until we see the pictures.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

foreign said:


> Raven, obito fans are desperate at this point.
> 
> oh i can imagine it... kishi, building up all of this stuff for it to make it seem as if its obito and then BAM! its someone totally different.
> 
> make it happen kishi!


It could be a red herring, or Kishi is indeed this obvious. He may actually think it's a surprise. 

Maybe he's unaware of the Tobito theory, but that would mean he's been living under a rock for years.


----------



## SaiST (Aug 11, 2012)

Just thought I'd state for the record that I don't consider this any kind of confirmation that Tobi's Obito. 



Easley said:


> It could be a red herring, or Kishi is indeed this obvious. He may actually think it's a surprise.
> 
> Maybe he's unaware of the Tobito theory, but that would mean he's been living under a rock for years.


Not every mangaka's actively combing web forums to see what kind of theories the most hardcore of their fans're cooking up.

And Hexa touched on it earlier, but few competent authors would expect the vast majority of their readers to make these kind of connections. To casual readers, this could very well be a genuine surprise.


----------



## tkROUT (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Another thingKyuubi: Sorry...this fellow was entrapped by that fellow's words and schemes.​It's sort of awkward, but the Kyuubi is saying that Tobi was led down the "dark path" by Madara, right?  Or is he talking about himself being entrapped by Naruto's words?



Kyuubi-Naruto: Sorry...this fellow *(Kakashi)* was entrapped by that fellow *(Tobi)*'s words and schemes.

Hope it cleared up.
---------------------------
Tobi gave a speech about Kakashi's life failure/regrets. 

Kakashi: ha ha (pant sound/heavy breath)
Gai: Hey! Kakashi, are you alright?
****(skip)
Kyuubi: Naruto...let me take over! I have some words that I absolutely must say to that fellow.
Naruto: !
Kyuubi-Naruto: Sorry...this fellow was entrapped by that fellow's words and schemes.
Gai: ...Kyuubi?!
****

That dialogue was Kyubi saying via Naruto like few chapters ago Naruto got different appearance.


----------



## TNPS1984 (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm not against Tobito theory but this chapter pretty much killed the theory unless Kishi come up some ass pull explanations. When Kakashi asked where Tobi got his Sharingan, Tobi replied that he got it during Kannabi bridge. Now assuming Tobi is indeed Obito, why and how would he say he just got it around that time? He's been carrying his eyeball in the socket for his entire life!


----------



## Guiness (Aug 11, 2012)

mayumi said:


> New oh wait no, just another recurring theme of Naruto. Students always kill their hokage sensei's. Kakashi was hokage for few minutes, he better be ready cause Sasuke is going t kill him.
> 
> regarding those last few lines kyuubi talking and referencing whoever, we won't have a clear picture until we see the pictures.



i hope sasuke do kill kakashi. gotta keep that tradition alive. :ho



Easley said:


> It could be a red herring, or Kishi is indeed this obvious. He may actually think it's a surprise.
> 
> Maybe he's unaware of the Tobito theory, but that would mean he's been living under a rock for years.



kishi said it was going to be a surprise..

i'll believe that it'll be a surprise.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

foreign said:


> my point exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Another question that must be answered as well: How is Tobi using what is apparently an MS jutsu without having the MS?



Itachi's background doesn't add up to me and I know it.  

What you are going to find if Tobi is Obito is that Tobi liked like a friend.

Tobi does have MS.  His eye is always hidden when he teleports.  There's a panel of his eye blacked out for no reason other than plot. 

But Tobi being Obito just smacks of obvious if you just look at the things connecting them and don't worry about the convoluted plot or timeline that will be hacked.


----------



## Guiness (Aug 11, 2012)

SaiST said:


> Just thought I'd state for the record that I don't consider this any kind of confirmation that Tobi's Obito.



i'm with you.

but its painfully going down that line of thought.


for years, tobito theorists have been ostricised for their belief in a character... it would be very hard for me to admit that they were right.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

I just read the spoilers. They were epic.  Can't wait for the chapter.


----------



## Guiness (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Itachi's background doesn't add up to me and I know it.
> 
> What you are going to find if Tobi is Obito is that Tobi liked like a friend.
> 
> ...



@bold: this makes sense


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

tkROUT said:


> Kyuubi-Naruto: Sorry...this fellow *(Kakashi)* was entrapped by that fellow *(Tobi)*'s words and schemes.
> 
> Hope it cleared up.
> ---------------------------
> ...





Are you for real?


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

TNPS1984 said:


> I'm not against Tobito theory but this chapter pretty much killed the theory unless Kishi come up some ass pull explanations. When Kakashi asked where Tobi got his Sharingan, Tobi replied that he got it during Kannabi bridge. Now assuming Tobi is indeed Obito, why and how would he say he just got it around that time? He's been carrying his eyeball in the socket for his entire life!



That's when Obito awakened his eye.  It could mean either but likely just a delay tactic on the reveal.


----------



## Syntaxis (Aug 11, 2012)

My guess is that Tobi consumed the Sharingan of Obito, it was crushed after all. But that doesn't mean the inherent powers are forever lost. Think about it: Tobi is at least part Zetsu, right? And Zetsu eats human bodies. To what purpose? Perhaps he absorbs their knowledge and allows him to use 1 bloodline ability? It would explain why Zetsu's clones are imbued with Yamato's power: the mokuton bloodline ability. And nothing else, really.

So: Tobi wanders around the battlefield. Finds a dead young Uchiha with one eye left over. Being a collector, he takes it. Maybe he has a way of figuring out which eyes have a potential for Mangekyou Sharingan. If so: He keeps the eye and fulfills the requirements. He absorbs its powers and he can use his entire body, rather than just the eye, to fade in and out of a separate dimension.

Meanwhile, Kakashi also unlocks MS and has the opposite power: casting the time/space ninjutsu onto objects from a distance, rather than at point blank.

In short: Obito is dead. Tobi is still unknown. But if Obito were alive and had both eyes, he would be the strongest ninja in the Narutoverse by far. You can't touch him, he can warp you anywhere and he can warp you at a distance.

Makes me wonder what his EMS would allow him to do, if he had siblings...


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

TNPS1984 said:


> I'm not against Tobito theory but this chapter pretty much killed the theory unless Kishi come up some ass pull explanations. When Kakashi asked where Tobi got his Sharingan, Tobi replied that he got it during Kannabi bridge. Now assuming Tobi is indeed Obito, why and how would he say he just got it around that time? He's been carrying his eyeball in the socket for his entire life!



Would it really be considered a Sharingan until an Uchiha activated it?


----------



## Guiness (Aug 11, 2012)

obito was weak and pathetic. 

he is no sasuke. 

but he would have become a major threat though had he his MS in both eyes.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> I'm not against Tobito theory but this chapter pretty much killed the theory unless Kishi come up some ass pull explanations. When Kakashi asked where Tobi got his Sharingan, Tobi replied that he got it during Kannabi bridge. Now assuming Tobi is indeed Obito, why and how would he say he just got it around that time? He's been carrying his eyeball in the socket for his entire life!


Or he simply meant that he awakened it there.

Besides, as long as we don't see flashbacks of it, we won't know just yet. Tobi may be playing around with his words to fool Kakashi into thinking that he stole the eye.

Either way, if it's not Obito, it's definitely Izuna. Or maybe even Kagami(hope not).

It's definitely not Shisui or Danzo or any of those crackpot candidates.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

TNPS1984 said:


> That's not the question Kakashi asked Tobi, and besides there is no indication that Tobi is even using MS. He has only one jutsu unlike MS which provide user access to unlock many offensive jutsu.



Yes it is. 

Kakashi asked him where he got that eye from (meaning the Sharingan), and he said he got it "during the battle at Kannabi Bridge...at around the time when you began to be known as the Ninja of the Copying Eye." This is exactly when Obito unlocked his Sharingan. He didn't have it before then. That's when he got the eye.

The answer is just ambiguous enough that it's not clear whether Tobi means he unlocked it at that time or he stole it. 

But his dialogue about Kakashi breaking promises kinds of puts it in perspective..


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

mayumi said:


> New oh wait no, just another recurring theme of Naruto. Students always kill their hokage sensei's. Kakashi was hokage for few minutes, he better be ready cause Sasuke is going t kill him.
> 
> regarding those last few lines kyuubi talking and referencing whoever, we won't have a clear picture until we see the pictures.



Correction: senseis - when faced with students - tend to kill themselves (Hiruzen, Minato). We should rather prepare for Kakashi's suicide while facing Sasuke (and Sauce has to keep his promise to Nardo about not killing any Konoha nin, so seppuku is the only option for Kakashi here).

Could also somebody explain me why after Tobi's _failed heroes talk_ did Kakashi burst into laughter, so unlike him to have such a reaction especially in such a grave serious situation.



Despiser said:


> Masked man: It should've already been said!  Simply put!  You who are  capable of nothing more than unfulfilled promises no longer has any  worth or value!  Even if you have regrets, it is too late!  Reality will  continue to callously march forward!  You who have always been  pragmatic and practical should understand.  No promises or hopes will  ever come true in this world!  And that is precisely why this world must  go to sleep underneath the eye of the Infinite Tsukyumoni.  It will  create a world where heroes will no longer have to make excuses in front  of the tomb of dead heroes.
> *Kakashi: Hahaha!*
> _Gai: Hey!  Kakashi, are you alright?_
> Gai: !



Even Guy had to reassure himself about Kakashi's mental state...


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

SaiST said:


> Just thought I'd state for the record that I don't consider this any kind of confirmation that Tobi's Obito.



SaiST hold me. I`m with you.


----------



## Opuni (Aug 11, 2012)

well i'll be damned!!apparently kakashi and rin underestimated the sharingan, those magic eyeball can NEVER be destroyed! not even by rocks, they are extremely tough and can be stored in jars infinitely!! too fearsome! seriously you can take out an uchiha but not his eyeballs..amazing


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Syntaxis said:


> My guess is that Tobi consumed the Sharingan of Obito, it was crushed after all. But that doesn't mean the inherent powers are forever lost. Think about it: Tobi is at least part Zetsu, right? And Zetsu eats human bodies. To what purpose? Perhaps he absorbs their knowledge and allows him to use 1 bloodline ability? It would explain why Zetsu's clones are imbued with Yamato's power: the mokuton bloodline ability. And nothing else, really.
> 
> So: Tobi wanders around the battlefield. Finds a dead young Uchiha with one eye left over. Being a collector, he takes it. Maybe he has a way of figuring out which eyes have a potential for Mangekyou Sharingan. If so: He keeps the eye and fulfills the requirements. He absorbs its powers and he can use his entire body, rather than just the eye, to fade in and out of a separate dimension.
> 
> ...



IMO Tobi likely has EMS.  No way he spams without it.  And he had ample supply of Sharingans to find at least one compatible with his own.


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

tobi is gonna die soon. i can see it now


----------



## TNPS1984 (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> That's when Obito awakened his eye.  It could mean either but likely just a delay tactic on the reveal.



I highly doubt that. Obito's body is crushed under the bolder. I don't see how he can escape from the fatal injuries he's received. Not to mention Tobi has a whole collection of Sharingan eyes. It makes sense that he implanted someone else sharingan onto him


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> obito was weak and pathetic.


Did you just stop reading Gaiden as soon as he awakened his sharingan? 



> he is no sasuke.


You're right. He's better than that wackjob.


----------



## auem (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> *Itachi's background doesn't add up to me* and I know it.
> 
> What you are going to find if Tobi is Obito is that Tobi liked like a friend.
> 
> ...



which part....??

i find him totally explained now...he loved his village more than his clan...he chose it over his brethren...managed to save his brother's life.....rest of it as we know....


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Correction: senseis - when faced with students - tend to kill themselves (Hiruzen, Minato). We should rather prepare for Kakashi's suicide while facing Sasuke (and Sauce has to keep his promise to Nardo about not killing any Konoha nin, so seppuku is the only option for Kakashi here).
> 
> Could also somebody explain me why after Tobi's _failed heroes talk_ did Kakashi burst into laughter, so unlike him to have such a reaction especially in such a grave serious situation.
> 
> ...



Because he knows it's Obito.  Imagine someone you looked up to as a hero who saved your life comes back from the dead practically and rips your for your failed promise to him and life.  It's in the mind fuck manual 101.


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

hmm i just read the script.
hmm what happened to kakashi?
has he gone mad?


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

Opuni said:


> well i'll be damned!!apparently kakashi and rin underestimated the sharingan, those magic eyeball can NEVER be destroyed! not even by rocks, they are extremely tough and can be stored in jars infinitely!! too fearsome! seriously you can take out an uchiha but not his eyeballs..amazing



Itachi says hi. 

KCM Naruto here.

Though I am curious as to how this eye survived. 

vered: Maybe.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

TNPS1984 said:


> I highly doubt that. Obito's body is crushed under the bolder. I don't see how he can escape from the fatal injuries he's received. Not to mention Tobi has a whole collection of Sharingan eyes. It makes sense that he implanted someone else sharingan onto him



You mean in a comic with magic eyes, people coming back from the dead and all types of other reality breaking things.  You can't imagine how a guy could survive and "unseen" death?


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

also i guess its obito after all?


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Well, this chapter has just solidified the Tobito theory. Better get your apologies ready, guys.



			
				TNPS1984 said:
			
		

> I highly doubt that. Obito's body is crushed under the bolder. I don't see how he can escape from the fatal injuries he's received. Not to mention Tobi has a whole collection of Sharingan eyes. It makes sense that he implanted someone else sharingan onto him


Zetsu goo...


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 11, 2012)

I bet Tobi has the most angsty backstory of all villains combined


----------



## Mantux31 (Aug 11, 2012)

We got the script, now when do we get the full chapter?


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Because he knows it's Obito.  Imagine someone you looked up to as a hero who saved your life comes back from the dead practically and rips your for your failed promise to him and life.  It's in the mind fuck manual 101.



It's reason to be in disbelief, not to start laughing, especially when the world fate is at stake. Keeping your nerves under control is much appreciated here.


----------



## daschysta (Aug 11, 2012)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> And I remember the memeber Kakashi Hatake saying Kakashi would defeat Tobi
> 
> I told him it would be Naruto



I remember everyone saying Naruto would be fighting Tobi alone 2 chapters ago. 

I told them it would be everyone, same thing still applies the others didn't just disappear, and there is still the juubi to worry about, which is who Naruto will end up fighting.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

auem said:


> which part....??
> 
> i find him totally explained now...he loved his village more than his clan...he chose it over his brethren...managed to save his brother's life.....rest of it as we know....



Itachi's story is contrived to me.   At least it seemed that the author decided to make Itachi good and slapped on top of his previous plan of Itachi being evil.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> also i guess its obito after all?



The chapter does suggest that it is Obito but nothing is set in stone.


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

so Obito(assuming its him) turned evil because kakashi couldnt keep his promise to him with Rin?


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Now that tobi is basically confirmed to be obito with his talks of kakashi failing in his promises etc etc i do hope obitos background and how he became dark is a little better than just rin and his dog dying.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> I bet Tobi has the most angsty backstory of all villains combined



Lol 2 chapter sob story at least.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

Here's hoping King Madara is the Final Villain, man just oozes arrogance and confidence.


----------



## fantzipants (Aug 11, 2012)

foreign said:


> i'm with you.
> 
> but its painfully going down that line of thought.
> 
> ...



If anything he has obito's eye which is a probable consideration but if it turns out to be obito it will not make any damn sense because of the age difference when tobi fought naruto's dad. Kakashi was a young kid at the time and obito would have been the same age. Plus why did he tell konan he was madara before he killed konan? tobi seems to not care about kakashi or minato's relationship to him.


----------



## Guiness (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Did you just stop reading Gaiden as soon as he awakened his sharingan?
> 
> You're right. He's better than that wackjob.



oh hey, look, its a tobito fan.

i await you and your fandom's glorious demise.


----------



## mayumi (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> Now that tobi is basically confirmed to be obito with his talks of kakashi failing in his promises etc etc i do hope obitos background and how he became dark is a little better than just rin and his dog dying.



it is surely going to be about rin. if anything else maybe what happens to shisui if shisui turns out to be obito's brother


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> so Obito(assuming its him) turned evil because kakashi couldnt keep his promise to him with Rin?



Madara Uchiha!!!!!

I bet Obito is some how responsible for Rin's death or at least made to feel that by Madara.  

Darth Vader all over again.



fantzipants said:


> If anything he has obito's eye which is a probable consideration but if it turns out to be obito it will not make any damn sense because of the age difference when tobi fought naruto's dad. Kakashi was a young kid at the time



Lol, and Naruto is a kid fighting Tobi.  What's your point?


----------



## TNPS1984 (Aug 11, 2012)

MYJC said:


> Yes it is.
> 
> Kakashi asked him where he got that eye from (meaning the Sharingan), and he said he got it "during the battle at Kannabi Bridge...at around the time when you began to be known as the Ninja of the Copying Eye." This is exactly when Obito unlocked his Sharingan. He didn't have it before then. That's when he got the eye.
> 
> ...



For the record, Obito always had the sharingan. He's a member of Uchiha and born with Sharingan. It's only during that battle, he unlocked the potential of it. Either way, it's ambiguous, Tobi has a hobby of collecting Sharingan eyes. But again one could also argue, Obito escaped the boulder that were on top of him by unlocking the space and time ability.

One thing that also should be noticed is that. Natural Sharingan users can always rever their sharingan pattern back to normal eyes. However we have never seen Tobi with regular eyes. Obito could use Katon, but Kakashi noted Tobi can only use one Jutsu.


----------



## tkROUT (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> tkROUT said:
> 
> 
> > Hexa; said:
> ...


Yes very real. 
I guess some readers need to see pictures to understand.



vered said:


> hmm i just read the script.
> hmm what happened to kakashi?
> has he gone mad?


No. After Tobi's speech he sort of having mental break down,possibly like can't move; breathing heavily. That is what I pictured from script. Just check my quote in this post little above.


----------



## Guiness (Aug 11, 2012)

X Itachi X said:


> Here's hoping King Madara is the Final Villain, man just oozes arrogance and confidence.



don't speak too soon. he just may have a sob story as well and be converted by naruto. 



fantzipants said:


> If anything he has obito's eye which is a probable consideration but if it turns out to be obito it will not make any damn sense because of the age difference when tobi fought naruto's dad. Kakashi was a young kid at the time and obito would have been the same age. Plus why did he tell konan he was madara before he killed konan? tobi seems to not care about kakashi or minato's relationship to him.



you have a point.


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Could also somebody explain me why after Tobi's _failed heroes talk_ did Kakashi burst into laughter, so unlike him to have such a reaction especially in such a grave serious situation.
> 
> 
> 
> Even Guy had to reassure himself about Kakashi's mental state...



I think the interpretion is wrong. Instead of laughter I think it's just Kakashi's heavy breathing. You know like here 
KCM Naruto here. 
or here
KCM Naruto here.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

tkROUT said:


> Yes very real.
> I guess some readers need to see pictures to understand.
> 
> 
> No. After Tobi's speech he sort of having mental break down,possibly like can't move; breathing heavily. That is what I pictured from script. Just check my quote in this post little above.



He caught Sasukitis from Naruto.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

X Itachi X said:


> Here's hoping King Madara is the Final Villain, man just oozes arrogance and confidence.



No shit. 

If Tobito is true it looks like he went bad because of a fucking teenage romance. That's not an acceptable past for an FV. Oh hell no.


----------



## mayumi (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> He caught Sasukitis from Naruto.



pft even adults can hyperventilate. heck naruto and sasuke have nothing to be ashamed about 



PikaCheeka said:


> No shit.
> 
> If Tobito is true it looks like he went bad because of a fucking teenage romance. That's not an acceptable past for an FV. Oh hell no.



Until we learn madara did the same cause he couldn't get uzumaki on his side and mito.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

TNPS1984 said:


> For the record, Obito always had the sharingan. He's a member of Uchiha and born with Sharingan. It's only during that battle, he unlocked the potential of it. Either way, it's ambiguous, Tobi has a hobby of collecting Sharingan eyes. But again one could also argue, Obito escaped the boulder that were on top of him by unlocking the space and time ability.
> 
> One thing that also should be noticed is that. Natural Sharingan users can always rever their sharingan pattern back to normal eyes. However we have never seen Tobi with regular eyes. Obito could use Katon, but Kakashi noted Tobi can only use one Jutsu.



He did use Uchiha Katon last chapter.

Don't you think the fact that Tobi use his Obito's Sharingan over all others and Rinnegan says something to how he feels about the eye?


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> so Obito(assuming its him) turned evil because kakashi couldnt keep his promise to him with Rin?


it seems so.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry to be honest.


----------



## Seraphoenix (Aug 11, 2012)

The Obito theory doesn't match Tobi's timeline. I really hope Kishi isn't going there because there would be too many plotholes...


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> I think the interpretion is wrong. Instead of laughter I think it's just Kakashi's heavy breathing. You know like here
> KCM Naruto here.
> or here
> Link removed



It's even better: Kakashi starts hyperventilating, so to easy his breath he'll put off his mask  and we'll finally see his face.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> No shit.
> 
> If Tobito is true it looks like he went bad because of a fucking teenage romance. That's not an acceptable past for an FV. Oh hell no.


True dat, True dat.
Madara nukes an entire battalion.. "This is a view i haven't enjoyed in a while"
GIVE HIM ALL MY MONIES AND MAKE HIM FV.



foreign said:


> don't speak too soon. he just may have a sob story as well and be converted by naruto.



Madara aint falling for no TnJ. 
Tobi, Sure.  Nagato,  Yep.  But Madara?  
He'd just shrug it off with a katon.


----------



## Icegaze (Aug 11, 2012)

k2nice said:


> This chapter has destroyed many theories.



Well, my theory on Kagami still stands. 

Great chapter ahead. Any news on what the coloured pages include? Any spread?


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

TNPS1984 said:
			
		

> For the record, Obito always had the sharingan. He's a member of Uchiha and born with Sharingan. It's only during that battle, he unlocked the potential of it. Either way, it's ambiguous, Tobi has a hobby of collecting Sharingan eyes. But again one could also argue, Obito escaped the boulder that were on top of him by unlocking the space and time ability.


But he still unlocked, as in gained, as in GOT the sharingan during that battle.



> One thing that also should be noticed is that. Natural Sharingan users can always rever their sharingan pattern back to normal eyes. However we have never seen Tobi with regular eyes. Obito could use Katon, but Kakashi noted Tobi can only use one Jutsu.


Itachi had his sharingan on all the time too. And Kakashi meant that Tobi's Space Time and intang are one jutsu. Not that he only ahs one jutsu. 

I mean, he used a doton jutsu, he used that barrier.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Kakashi has clearly entered a state of denial.

He'll go crazy when Obito reveals his face.


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

it may be the biggest mind fuck we ever had.
the Tobito theory had been with us since the beginning of part 2.and now after all these years its finally been confirmed as true?or perhaps true?


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka are you still in denial?

Tobi was never FV!


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphoenix said:


> The Obito theory doesn't match Tobi's timeline. I really hope Kishi isn't going there because there would be too many plotholes...



Tobi has only been seen shortly after Obito was crushed.

Tobi words are where all of the plot holes that come with Obito theory.  Tobi is a liar lol.   There are panels we've disregarded on Tobi's words like Nagato's rinnegan awakening.


----------



## Guiness (Aug 11, 2012)

mayumi said:


> pft even adults can hyperventilate. heck naruto and sasuke have nothing to be ashamed about
> .



wait, wut?

when did sasuke hyperventilate over something stupid?


----------



## FearTear (Aug 11, 2012)

Hurray, another chapter of blah blah blah


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 11, 2012)

X Itachi X said:


> Madara aint falling for no TnJ.
> Tobi, Sure.  Nagato,  Yep.  But Madara?
> He'd just shrug it off with a katon.



He loved Hashirama's wife


----------



## fantzipants (Aug 11, 2012)

what would you guys do if it was future sauske? X P


----------



## T7 Bateman (Aug 11, 2012)

So Tobi could really be Obito ok. Well my poor Kakashi. Guess next chapter will really open things up more.


----------



## Recal (Aug 11, 2012)

If Tobi = Obito, then I wonder if he'll challenge Nagato for the Worst Villian Sob Story in Naruto award?

Orochimaru or Sasuke for final villain.  Oro is impervious to TnJ.


----------



## Federer (Aug 11, 2012)

Will Kakashi cry, will he become like Naruto who went after Sasuke this entire part II?



Awesome bromance in the making.


----------



## Leptirica (Aug 11, 2012)

As far as I'm concerned, until the chapter is actually out, Tobi has Obito's eye and he's using that and what he knows about Kakashi (I assume he did his research while tracking down the other Obito's eye) to put him out of commission because Kakashi is dangerously smart.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

And about that theme where masters kill themselves while fighting their students... well Minato killed himself after fighting Tobi, right?


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> He loved Hashirama's wife



But he just didn't have the wood to satisfy her.
Until...


----------



## KevKev (Aug 11, 2012)

Well...

Kishi has some explaining to do


----------



## shyakugaun (Aug 11, 2012)

Recalcitrant Funkasaur said:


> If Tobi = Obito, then I wonder if he'll challenge Nagato for the Worst Villian Sob Story in Naruto award?
> 
> Orochimaru or Sasuke for final villain.  Oro is impervious to TnJ.



Nagato is unbeatable


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

foreign said:


> wait, wut?
> 
> when did sasuke hyperventilate over something stupid?



If you count Itachi as "something stupid", Sasuke did hyperventilate during Tobi's story about Itachi.


----------



## AceBizzle (Aug 11, 2012)

Can't wait for the epic rage page of Tobi screaming 

"YOU LET RIN DIE, KAKASHI!!!!"


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

TNPS1984 said:


> For the record, Obito always had the sharingan. He's a member of Uchiha and born with Sharingan. It's only during that battle, he unlocked the potential of it. Either way, it's ambiguous, Tobi has a hobby of collecting Sharingan eyes. But again one could also argue, Obito escaped the boulder that were on top of him by unlocking the space and time ability.



No one can't argue the latter. For one Obito had just then unlocked the second tomoe, he simply wasn't even close to ready for the MS and second even if he had managed to escape that way he would have returned to Konoha as quickly as possible. I mean really. One minute he's willing to die to allow Kakashi to live and even makes that speech about giving Kakashi his eye as a symbol of how they'll ever be together and then suddenly he plans to imprison the entire world in a genjutsu. That makes no sense.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

Federer said:


> Will Kakashi cry, will he become like Naruto who went after Sasuke this entire part II?
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome bromance in the making.



Yes, Kakashi will cry.


----------



## Federer (Aug 11, 2012)

Kakashi: SASUUKEEEEEEEEE OBITOOOOOOOOO


I totally see this happening.


----------



## Raiden (Aug 11, 2012)

The most dangerous thing about Tobi's words is that they are going to compromise Naruto and the other's ability to focus on strategics.

These mofos are gonna make Tobi seal somebody .


----------



## auem (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> it may be the biggest mind fuck we ever had.
> the Tobito theory had been with us since the beginning of part 2.and now after all these years its finally been confirmed as true?or perhaps true?



if you believe so......


----------



## SaiST (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> No one can't argue the latter. For one Obito had just then unlocked the second tomoe, he simply wasn't even close to ready for the MS and second even if he had managed to escape that way he would have returned to Konoha as quickly as possible. I mean really. One minute he's willing to die to allow Kakashi to live and even makes that speech about giving Kakashi his eye as a symbol of how they'll ever be together and then suddenly he plans to imprison the entire world in a genjutsu. That makes no sense.


Tobito theorists are arguing that it could've been due to Madara's influence.


----------



## Octavian (Aug 11, 2012)

better be izuna with obito's eye. afterall, how did a scrub like obito get around to controlling gedo mazo and summoning the fucking juubi ?


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Yes, Kakashi will cry.



Which will be the high point of the year of Kakashi. If you were awed by Kakashi's rampage after Zabuza got sealed you'll be completely overwhelmed by the epicness of Kakashi's crying fit.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> He loved Hashirama's wife



Awkward as it is, things are more indicative that he loved Hashirama.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> No one can't argue the latter. For one Obito had just then unlocked the second tomoe, he simply wasn't even close to ready for the MS and second even if he had managed to escape that way he would have returned to Konoha as quickly as possible. I mean really. One minute he's willing to die to allow Kakashi to live and even makes that speech about giving Kakashi his eye as a symbol of how they'll ever be together and then suddenly he plans to imprison the entire world in a genjutsu. That makes no sense.



You don't know what happened.  He could have been under care with Zetsu and Madara for a while. 

For all you know he kills Rin himself some how and decided not to come back.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

Raiden said:


> The most dangerous thing about Tobi's words is that they are going to compromise Naruto and the other's ability to focus on strategics.
> 
> These mofos are gonna make Tobi seal somebody .



Gai should be fine and Kyuubi seems to have cleared Naruto's doubts.  It's Kakashi that is a problem. :/


----------



## mayumi (Aug 11, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Yes, Kakashi will cry.



and remove his mask same time as tobito.


----------



## KevKev (Aug 11, 2012)

mayumi said:


> and remove his mask same time as tobito.



Dammit you beat me to it


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> Which will be the high point of the year of Kakashi. If you were awed by Kakashi's rampage after Zabuza got sealed you'll be completely overwhelmed by the epicness of Kakashi's crying fit.



Off-paneled crying, I like the sound of that.


----------



## Federer (Aug 11, 2012)

mayumi said:


> and remove his mask same time as tobito.



And kiss each other. :amazed


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

mayumi said:


> and remove his mask same time as tobito.



Instead of brofist, they'll exchange the masks.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi (As Obito): _You let her die Kakashi! You promised us and you let her die!_
The first time we see Tobi actually upset, spitting at the mouth, crying.
(Imagine dat dere panel folks, fuark).
The first time we see him actually attack properly out of sheer anger
Kakashi breaks down, we feel sympathy for the villain.. 

Hrmm, COULD have worked (with a complete re-working of Obito in the gaiden) , but now it's too late, too many plot holes.
And Kishi's not that good to have ran with it, and make it a surprise.


----------



## SaiST (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> Awkward as it is, things are more indicative that he loved Hashirama.


_<Madara> That thievin' cat!..._

And so, the Uzumaki clan, and Uzushiogakure were wiped out.


----------



## Recal (Aug 11, 2012)

mayumi said:


> and remove his mask same time as tobito.



Then we'll finally get to know whether Kakashi has thick lips, buck teeth or a small mouth. I am excite!


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

SaiST said:


> Tobito theorists are arguing that it could've been due to Madara's influence.



Which would have to be the most thorough brainwashing ever. Tobi and Obito are complete opposites they have nothing in common personalitywise. And apparently even their chakras are completely different. Curiously though despite such a thorough brainwashing Tobi really wasn't loyal to Madara.


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

to imagine Obito could have become one of the strongest uchihas ever with 2 MS eyes.
but i find it strange that he could never use other MS powers,or even Madara's own eye(Rinnegan)to its fullest with the ems powers as well.probably it was never his eye to begin with and that was the reason but why wouldnt he upgrade his right eye further?


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

TNPS1984 said:


> For the record, Obito always had the sharingan. He's a member of Uchiha and born with Sharingan. It's only during that battle, he unlocked the potential of it. Either way, it's ambiguous, Tobi has a hobby of collecting Sharingan eyes. But again one could also argue, Obito escaped the boulder that were on top of him by unlocking the space and time ability.
> 
> One thing that also should be noticed is that. Natural Sharingan users can always rever their sharingan pattern back to normal eyes. However we have never seen Tobi with regular eyes. Obito could use Katon, but Kakashi noted Tobi can only use one Jutsu.



Obito didn't always have the Sharingan. He didn't have it until that battle. 

Nobody's born with Sharingan, it's something that only some members of the Uchiha Clan can unlock. 

As far as reverting back to normal eyes, who knows. We've never seen Tobi do that but it doesn't mean he can't. He may just prefer to leave his Sharingan on most of the time so he can go intangible almost instantly. Besides, if he was really a non-Uchiha, having his Sharingan on so much would probably demolish his chakra.


----------



## KevKev (Aug 11, 2012)

So Kishi was saving up Kakashi's year to do this...i see you Kishi


----------



## SaiST (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> Which would have to be the most thorough brainwashing ever. Tobi and Obito are complete opposites they have nothing in common personalitywise. And apparently even their chakras are completely different. Curiously though despite such a thorough brainwashing Tobi really wasn't loyal to Madara.


Yeah, I don't buy it either.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> Awkward as it is, things are more indicative that he loved Hashirama.



Lol, wood style has nothing on expansion jutsu.  And Choji was really worried about the ladies and getting married lol.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

MYJC said:


> Obito didn't always have the Sharingan. He didn't have it until that battle.
> 
> Nobody's born with Sharingan, it's something that only some members of the Uchiha Clan can unlock.
> 
> As far as reverting back to normal eyes, who knows. We've never seen Tobi do that but it doesn't mean he can't. He may just prefer to leave his Sharingan on most of the time so he can go intangible almost instantly. Besides, if he was really a non-Uchiha, having his Sharingan on so much would probably demolish his chakra.



When Tobi was Tobi Goofy guy his sharingan was not on.  I doubt Akatsuki members would fail to notice.  

His sharingan first was shown to guess who... Kakashi.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> When Tobi was Tobi Goofy guy his sharingan was not on.  I doubt Akatsuki members would fail to notice.



Tobi was wearing contacts.


----------



## Boocock (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi is clearly Morph from the 1990s X-Men cartoon. Zetsu is Mister Sinister. Kakashi is Wolverine. That's where we are at right now in this manga.


----------



## KevKev (Aug 11, 2012)

Soo is Obito going to want his eye back?


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

The thing I hate most about Tobi is that he does things for the benefit of the audience even if it makes no sense later on.


----------



## T7 Bateman (Aug 11, 2012)

mayumi said:


> and remove his mask same time as tobito.



That would awesome. Two faces in one moment lol


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

naijaboykev28 said:


> Soo is Obito going to want his eye back?



At the very least Tobi will want to prevent Kakashi from being able to use it against him.


----------



## SaiST (Aug 11, 2012)

Boocock said:


> Tobi is clearly Morph from the 1990s X-Men cartoon. Zetsu is Mister Sinister. Kakashi is Wolverine. That's where we are at right now in this manga.


Maaaannn, you just brought back some crazy childhood memories. XD


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

SaiST said:


> Yeah, I don't buy it either.



Well just think about the bloody mist training.  Think about Obito and Rin.  Think about how to awaken MS.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> His sharingan first was shown to guess who... Kakashi.


Unless they're blind I'm sure Pain and Konan noticed it.

But yeah, I get your point.


----------



## SaiST (Aug 11, 2012)

Not saying it isn't possible, Raventhal, I'm just not putting any faith in it.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> Which would have to be the most thorough brainwashing ever. Tobi and Obito are complete opposites they have nothing in common personalitywise. And apparently even their chakras are completely different. Curiously though despite such a thorough brainwashing Tobi really wasn't loyal to Madara.



Makes no sense to me, either. He also brainwashed him into being a brainwasher himself?



Boocock said:


> Tobi is clearly Morph from the 1990s X-Men cartoon. Zetsu is Mister Sinister. Kakashi is Wolverine. That's where we are at right now in this manga.



Wolverine > Kakashi.


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

Still praying for him not to be Obito


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

SaiST said:


> Not saying it isn't possible, Raventhal, I'm just not putting any faith in it.



I've been thinking the Bloody Mist and Root training is Uchiha legacy stuff considering how you awaken MS.   It fits with Madara running the Kirigakure for years.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> He also brainwashed him into being a brainwasher himself?



Makes sense to me.


----------



## SaiST (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> I've been thinking the Bloody Mist and Root training is Uchiha legacy stuff considering how you awaken MS.   It fits with Madara running the Kirigakure for years.


I've thought along the same lines.


----------



## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

naijaboykev28 said:


> Soo is Obito going to want his eye back?



Probably not since Obito is dead


----------



## Raiden (Aug 11, 2012)

SaiST said:


> I've thought along the same lines.



I completely agree.

What confuses me though is why people with precious Kekkei Genkai were killed off.


----------



## SageDan (Aug 11, 2012)

How epic would that be if Tobi used Edo Tensei to bring Rin back..


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

SaiST said:


> Yeah, I don't buy it either.



It's OK.

You can keep on rooting for Izuna, which has no basis or any shred of evidence going for it, but whatever floats your boat.

Meanwhile, Tobi's chances of being Obito keep sky rocketing chapter after chapter. 

But it's OK.

LOL!


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

If Tobi is Obito...

Who's eyes are Nagato's?  They can't be Izuna's eyes anymore because Madara would have to be alive to meet Obito.  Madara's old set of eyes, plain Uchiha eyes?


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> Makes no sense to me, either. He also brainwashed him into being a brainwasher himself?



I've once theorized that Tobi may have lost his identity by absorbing the psyches of various dead shinobi who had given into despair. All those shinobi who were erased in the darkness, who gave up on hope and so on. The Kisames, Danzous and such. It would fit his "I am no one" spiel. 
And it would increase the parallels between him and Kabuto.


----------



## TNPS1984 (Aug 11, 2012)

Ever since Kabuto brought back most of the dead Akatsuki, nothing will surprises me anymore.


----------



## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> If Tobi is Obito...
> 
> Who's eyes are Nagato's?  They can't be Izuna's eyes anymore because Madara would have to be alive to meet Obito.  Madara's old set of eyes, plain Uchiha eyes?



They're Madara's eyes, he practically said so himself


----------



## daschysta (Aug 11, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Gai should be fine and Kyuubi seems to have cleared Naruto's doubts.  It's Kakashi that is a problem. :/



Kyuubi was talking to Kakashi I believe. It's a huge shock, but he'll be fine.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

> The Bloody Mist graduation ended before Obito even awakened his Sharingan. Zabuza graduated 20 years ago. Or were you the guy who said that we should say fuck timeline and personality and all that it has to be Obito?



Not saying that Obito was trained in the bloody mist.  I'm saying that since it's likely that the Bloody Mist was started by Madara and could be a Uchiha Legacy to awaken MS in the strong that maybe Obito was put on a similar path to kill Rin or made to think he did to awaken his MS.  

It would make more sense that Obito killed Rin that he not come back to the village and be in dispair than her just randomly dying and he be like fuck Konoha.  Kakashi failed to keep Rin safe from himself is all types of mind fuckery lol.


----------



## Raiden (Aug 11, 2012)

SageDan said:


> How epic would that be if Tobi used Edo Tensei to bring Rin back..



Now all we need is Yondaime Hokage .


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> I've once theorized that Tobi may have lost his identity by absorbing the psyches of various dead shinobi who had given into despair. All those shinobi who were erased in the darkness, who gave up on hope and so on. The Kisames, Danzous and such. It would fit his "I am no one" spiel.
> And it would increase the parallels between him and Kabuto.



It would make sense but seems too deep for the manga. 

And OT but I don't think Kisame, in the end, gave up on hope. I think Tobi and/or Madara gave it back to him.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

insane111 said:


> They're Madara's eyes, he said so himself



Madara's current eyes are Izuna's.  And Madara never said that Tobi did.  If Tobi is Obito than Madara or Tobi couldn't have given Nagato Izuna's eyes because Madara would have had to be alive until at least 18 years ago.


----------



## Kakashi Hatake (Aug 11, 2012)

Obito, Rin and Kakashi - Team Minato Reunion is going to happen, all we need is Tobi to resurrect Rin and release Minato from the death god.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Raiden said:


> Can you please name some of those actions?



Pretending to be goofy/Madara when nobody is around to know better but the audience.  When he said he fought Hashirama despite being outed by Kabuto a few seconds earlier.


----------



## narutoispoppin (Aug 11, 2012)

This manga failed for the second time, (first being EMS), when Madara revealed that the Rinnegan is an evolution of the Sharingan. It makes it almost impossible to make sense of Tobi's story is the Rinnegan he gave to Nagato was infact his eyes. Because then how did Kakashi not awaken it in his eye as well.


----------



## Kanki (Aug 11, 2012)

How much longer?


----------



## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Madara's current eyes are Izuna's.  And Madara never said that Tobi did.  If Tobi is Obito than Madara or Tobi couldn't have given Nagato Izuna's eyes because Madara would have had to be alive until at least 18 years ago.



It sounds like you have a different view of how the "transplant" works. The way I think it works is either the eyes are merged, or the old pair of eyes become useless. If both pairs of eyes retained their powers, then what stopped them from simply eye swapping?


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

narutoispoppin said:


> This manga failed for the second time, (first being EMS), when Madara revealed that the Rinnegan is an evolution of the Sharingan. It makes it almost impossible to make sense of Tobi's story is the Rinnegan he gave to Nagato was infact his eyes. Because then how did Kakashi not awaken it in his eye as well.



Lol Tobi is a liar.  

I believe the evolution from Rinnegan to Sharingan is like evolving vanilla milk shake to a chocolate milk shake.  You must have Senju DNA added or being Uzumaki or Senju with a Uchiha eye.


----------



## Deadway (Aug 11, 2012)

Deadway said:


> I have a bad feeling this will be a chapter which revolves around Kakashi explaining how Tobi's jutsu works....Gai needs to go into the 8th gate already and end this.



Oh I hate it when I'm right.


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Not saying that Obito was trained in the bloody mist.  I'm saying that since it's likely that the Bloody Mist was started by Madara and could be a Uchiha Legacy to awaken MS in the strong that maybe Obito was put on a similar path to kill Rin or made to think he did to awaken his MS.
> 
> It would make more sense that Obito killed Rin that he not come back to the village and be in dispair than her just randomly dying and he be like fuck Konoha.  Kakashi failed to keep Rin safe from himself is all types of mind fuckery lol.



I realized that myself upon reading it for a second time so I deleted the part 



PikaCheeka said:


> It would make sense but seems too deep for the manga.
> 
> And OT but I don't think Kisame, in the end, gave up on hope. I think Tobi and/or Madara gave it back to him.



I don't think it'd be that deep in comparison to what we have seen so far. Some guy created a jutsu which would allow him to absorb the memories of the shinobi who were sacrificed for the good of the village, because he didn't want them to be forgotten in the darkness. But over time as he absorbed more and more of them he changed from their memories and became the current nihilistic Tobi.

As for Kisame, it's not that Tobi gave him back his hope. What Tobi did promise Kisame was a future in which the lies would be stripped from the dark nature of the shinobi. Instead of changing that nature like what Jiraiya, Minato, Naruto etc have been trying to do Tobi plans to create a world of illusions in which there no longer even is such a thing as truth. With everyone under Tobi's control there wouldn't be any hipocrisy anylonger.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

insane111 said:


> It sounds like you have a different view of how the "transplant" works. The way I think it works is either the eyes are merged, or the old pair of eyes become useless. If both pairs of eyes retained their powers, then what stopped them from simply eye swapping?



Plot honestly.  Sasuke has plainly said that the eyes are Itachi's.


----------



## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Plot honestly.  Sasuke has plainly said that the eyes are Itachi's.



Well, I know they technically are Izuna's eyes, my point is that I think Madara's real eyes don't exist any more or lost their powers.

 And the same for Sasuke's old eyes


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

insane111 said:


> It sounds like you have a different view of how the "transplant" works. The way I think it works is either the eyes are merged, or the old pair of eyes become useless in some way. If both pairs of eyes retained their powers, then what stopped them from simply eye swapping?



yep, that's why only one of the 2 siblings could achieve the EMS.  The eyes are in fact transplanted, but the power lies within the spiritual power behind those eyes, that spiritual power is merged, Itachi's spiritual power flowing thru Sasuke combining with his own, his own power didn't leave him.  Just like Izuna's Mangekyou power was given to Madara, for Izuna to gain power again, he would have to transplant other uchiha's eyes, thus tobi's obsession with eye collecting.  

Tobi said he found the eye at the Kannabi bridge, and Kakashi stated that only their jutsus are linked, so Tobi's eye being Obito's eye is 100% confirmed, but I still think Tobi itself is Izuna who sent in Zetsu to scavenge the eye.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Pretending to be goofy/Madara when nobody is around to know better but the audience.  *When he said he fought Hashirama despite being outed by Kabuto a few seconds earlier.*


That's one of those lines that look especially bad in retrospect. I doubt Kishi expects people to remember all this stuff so whatever fits the current chapter is fine. 

Or Tobi is just a crackpot.


----------



## forkandspoon (Aug 11, 2012)

It's going to turn out that Rin was killed by someone and Kakashi couldn't revenge her because the guy who killed her is a high ranking member in a country Konoha was trying to make a peace treaty with. Obito horribly disfigured and rescued by Zetsu finds out about Rin and her killer and gets revenge.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

insane111 said:


> Well, I know they technically are Izuna's eyes, my point is that I think Madara's real eyes don't exist any more or lost their powers.



It's possible.  Likely the author didn't think about it when he came up with the story.  

There is a possibility that Nagato's eyes may have been Madara's possession but not literally his own.


----------



## Reddan (Aug 11, 2012)

I put forward this theory a long time ago and I think this chapter makes it seem more plausible.

Madara called Nagato a brat, because he was arrogant. He still calls Onoki a brat now, whilst Pa calls Jiraiya a boy. Madara was the masked man Kisame met. Madara was the masked man with long hair. 

Madara found a dying Obito, fixed him up with Zetsu parts and turned him into his new weapon. Using a similar jutsu to Orochimaru with the curse seal, he implanted part of his chakra/soul into Obito. To gain MS he probably controlled Obito to kill Rin. 

Tobi for a long part has been a mixture of Madara and Obito. However, now Obito is fully in control. Even when Orochimaru takes over a soul, a part of their will remains. The same applies here with Obito. This is why Tobi was so playful compared to Madara.


----------



## WraithX959 (Aug 11, 2012)

I doubt Tobi is actually Obito. The only thing that was confirmed was that Tobi has Obito's Sharingan, you know the same Tobi that had a whole lab of Sharingan pupils. I'm really leaning towards Tobi being Izuna Uchiha. Obito would have still been too young to have been the masked man that attacked Konoha and unleashed the Kyuubi. Tobi claimed that Nagato's Rinnegan originally belonged to him. The only way that would be true is if he was in fact Izuna, the brother who had his eyes taken by his older brother, Madara Uchiha.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

forkandspoon said:


> It's going to turn out that Rin was killed by someone and Kakashi couldn't revenge her because the guy who killed her is a high ranking member in a country Konoha was trying to make a peace treaty with. Obito horribly disfigured and rescued by Zetsu finds out about Rin and her killer and gets revenge.



Obito is a poor man's Sasuke.

Which is why he got so close to him, because their story is similar in a way.


----------



## Illairen (Aug 11, 2012)

forkandspoon said:


> It's going to turn out that Rin was killed by someone and Kakashi couldn't revenge her because the guy who killed her is a high ranking member in a country Konoha was trying to make a peace treaty with. Obito horribly disfigured and rescued by Zetsu finds out about Rin and her killer and gets revenge.



This would be horrible, horrible , horrible!


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Awesome to see Tobito happening, hope all the retards which blamed me from the start hope they got it in their face, but even as a Tobito believer i have to say this is the most anticl retard reveal. 
Obito should have been revealed without the hints around that would have make it much better.


----------



## Kishido (Aug 11, 2012)

Well we have a lot to explain... but Tobi lied a lot... Who knows what is true and what not. But I'm going with Obito now... And I doubted it for a long time


----------



## GoDMasteR (Aug 11, 2012)

even if i don't like it, it seems clear that Tobi is Obito...

damn you kishi. you fucked up with timeline...


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

WraithX959 said:


> I doubt Tobi is actually Obito. The only thing that was confirmed was that Tobi has Obito's Sharingan, you know the same Tobi that had a whole lab of Sharingan pupils. I'm really leaning towards Tobi being Izuna Uchiha. Obito would have still been too young to have been the masked man that attacked Konoha and unleashed the Kyuubi. Tobi claimed that Nagato's Rinnegan originally belonged to him. The only way that would be true is if he was in fact Izuna, the brother who had his eyes taken by his older brother, Madara Uchiha.



Yeah, I'v been thinking this exact thing for a while now. Izuna makes easily the most sense.

It would be VERY anticlimatic for Tobi to first admit that he has Obito's eye only to later reveal that he is Obito.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

GoDMasteR said:


> even if i don't like it, it seems clear that Tobi is Obito...
> 
> damn you kishi. you fucked up with timeline...


Long haired masked man being the real Madara= time line fixed, how many times do i have to say this.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

JuubiSage said:


> Yeah, I'v been thinking this exact thing for a while now. Izuna makes easily the most sense.
> 
> It would be VERY anticlimatic for Tobi to first admit that he has Obito's eye only to later reveal that he is Obito.


Tobi even commented on Kakashi ''blablabla, so heroes don't have to cry in front of the tombs of the dead heroes'', like Evil's last clue.
If you guys still say its coicindence i give up.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Awesome to see Tobito happening, hope all the retards which blamed me from the start hope they got it in their face, but even as a Tobito believer i have to say this is the most anticl retard reveal.
> Obito should have been revealed without the hints around that would have make it much better.



There wouldn't be any suspense without the hints.

Kishi has to build up for the big reveal.


----------



## Mateush (Aug 11, 2012)

Ok now I'm confident that Tobi also has Obito's body. Now I think that I may win the 100$ bet, mohahaha.


----------



## Godammit (Aug 11, 2012)

I thought it was obivous from the freakin' beginning, that Tobi is using Obito's eyes if not being Obito himself ? I mean like DUH did we see other Sharingan performing the same feat as Kakashi's eye except Tobi ? Nope, meaning that Obito's eyes  are special such as Shisui eyes... The thing with MS is that it's like a dice, you could get standard MS techniques or special advanced techniques... And obito's eyes are pretty damn special If I may say, there isn't a jutsu or something else that let you slip trough objects or teleport to seperate dimension with block structure like landscape... And the fact that Tobi's eye and Kakashi's eye cancel each other out was proven before the "omg can't kamui gedo mazo"



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcYppAs6ZdI[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## GoDMasteR (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Long haired masked man being the real Madara= time line fixed, how many times do i have to say this.



I am not talking about the masked man with long hairs....

a 14 old year Obito attacked Konoha and Minato, managed to force him to commite suicide  

he was even able to summon the kyuubi... sorry but I can't accept this.


----------



## Sword Sage (Aug 11, 2012)

when do we get the full chapter online?


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

GoDMasteR said:


> I am not talking about the masked man with long hairs....
> 
> a 14 old year Obito attacked Konoha and Minato, managed to force him to commite suicide
> 
> he was even able to summon the kyuubi... sorry but I can't accept this.



You reminded me that I have to create those Obito > Yondaime threads.

Thanks my friend.

LOL!


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

The regular reader wouldn't pick up on the hints immediately anyways.  However, yeah it's nice to see that supporters of this theory for years are being vindicated after some many ridiculed them for believing in this theory. 

Anyways, I always like characters that seem more human than sociopaths and power hungry ones without personality like Madara.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

GoDMasteR said:


> I am not talking about the masked man with long hairs....
> 
> a 14 old year Obito attacked Konoha and Minato, managed to force him to commite suicide
> 
> he was even able to summon the kyuubi... sorry but I can't accept this.


Kishi litteraly himself that a fodder with both dumb Senju Uchiha Dna can controle the allmighty Kyuubi.
S/T bro, any character with that could do the same thing.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

GoDMasteR said:


> I am not talking about the masked man with long hairs....
> 
> a 14 old year Obito attacked Konoha and Minato, managed to force him to commite suicide
> 
> he was even able to summon the kyuubi... sorry but I can't accept this.



I time runs differently in Kamui's dimension it would easily explain these things.


----------



## Kanki (Aug 11, 2012)

Matrix XZ said:


> when do we get the full chapter online?



?????????????????


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

GoDMasteR said:


> I am not talking about the masked man with long hairs....
> 
> a 14 old year Obito attacked Konoha and Minato, managed to force him to commite suicide
> 
> he was even able to summon the kyuubi... sorry but I can't accept this.



One word = Sharingan.

Sasuke is 16 and he would give Minato a run for his money or defeat him.  Same with Naruto.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Hai guys I'm Izuna.



I mean Shisui.

I mean Kagami.

..

xD


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

We don't even know how old Obito was when he fought Minato. One he could have lived in Kamui's dimension where time flows faster or two he was a few years older than Kakashi when they were a part of Minato's group.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Matrix XZ said:


> when do we get the full chapter online?



You have been around here long enough to know that there isn't a set time when a chapter is released, even more so on break weeks like this.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Long haired masked man being the real Madara= time line fixed, how many times do i have to say this.


Most Tobito supporters don't even believe that.

I think it would answer several timeline problems though. So in my opinion, it's possible.

As for Obito attacking Konoha, that's just too much I'm afraid. Was he already evil personified at that time? A badass who fights on par with Minato? 



Nic said:


> I time runs differently in Kamui's dimension it would easily explain these things.


It could be feasible. There must be more to that dimension than simply being a holding cell.


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> Hai guys I'm Izuna.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL Damn, those images, I think we may just have to start to accept that Tobi is Obito, not 100% confirmed but huge possibility.


----------



## Kazekage Gaara (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> Hai guys I'm Izuna.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 The similarity level is really insane.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

forkandspoon said:


> It's going to turn out that Rin was killed by someone and Kakashi couldn't revenge her because the guy who killed her is a high ranking member in a country Konoha was trying to make a peace treaty with. Obito horribly disfigured and rescued by Zetsu finds out about Rin and her killer and gets revenge.



Lamest thing I have ever heard, but fitting for a character like Obito. Unless he was revived and brainwashed, what else could have possibly driven him to turn out like this?


----------



## Seraphoenix (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> One word = Sharingan.
> 
> Sasuke is 16 and he would give Minato a run for his money or defeat him.  Same with Naruto.



Sasuke and Obito are worlds apart in terms of talent for their age...


----------



## Kishido (Aug 11, 2012)

Well well... I don't like to say it... but this time we have to trust in Kishi... I doubt he will fuck this up like minor things in the past... I think he tought this out for a long time already... it is too important for the plot if it won't fit in with the things we know


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> There wouldn't be any suspense without the hints.
> 
> Kishi has to build up for the big reveal.



What build-up? He already revealed this "great secret" in an effing magazine over month ago.  If it was planned or wanted by him I don't know, but it happened.


----------



## son_michael (Aug 11, 2012)

*looks at spoilers*


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> We don't even know how old Obito was when he fought Minato. One he could have lived in Kamui's dimension where time flows faster or two he was a few years older than Kakashi when they were a part of Minato's group.



It doesn't matter.   If Obito Awakened his MS at 14-15 it's a moot point because everything that Tobi did was from using his sharingan.  It's not like he did 300 seal jutsu to fight Minato.  

MS purpose is to control bijuu.  S/T and sharingan prediction will allow you to be defensive. 

But look at their battle really.

1. Obito sneaks up and tries to warp Minato.  That's all powerful sneak attack tech!!!
2. Obito phases through Minato and tries to grap him with chains and fails.  The technique is over 9000!
3. Obito tries to grab Minato to warp him and Minato uses FTG 2.  Epic Obito move there to absorb that rasengan in the back!
4. Minato using FTG to stab Obito.  Obito's most powerful move yet!


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 






Sutol said:


> Hai guys I'm Izuna.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







Similarity is rather peculiar.
Still, could be his body and not purely him.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

So Kakashi went nuts went nuts when he realized that Obito was still alive?


----------



## Seraphoenix (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> What build-up? He already revealed this "great secret" in an effing magazine over month ago.  If it was planned or wanted by him I don't know, but it happened.



What was said in the magazine?


----------



## Final Jutsu (Aug 11, 2012)

That hand gesture from Tobi/Obito made me think more into it lol.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

well it was suppose to coincide with the movie's release.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

X Itachi X said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm leaning towards Tobi being a composite of Obito and someone else.  Perhaps someone like Izuna melded his soul with Obito because Izuna's old body was breaking down and he need a new body.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphoenix said:


> What was said in the magazine?


There was a script in the background from the movie implying ''Madara (Obito) reffering to Tobi. ^^


----------



## auem (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Long haired masked man being the real Madara= time line fixed, how many times do i have to say this.



long haired man showed his face to kisame and introduced himself as madara..

again kisame recognized tobi as madara right away....

so tobi i.e obito looks like original madara..right??


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> I'm leaning towards Tobi being a composite of Obito and someone else.  Perhaps someone like Izuna melded his soul with Obito because Izuna's old body was breaking down and he need a new body.




Yes Izuna's body was breaking down and he needed a new one so he picked a boy crushed by rocks!

Izuna also has personal issues with Kakashi?


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> It doesn't matter.   If Obito Awakened his MS at 14-15 it's a moot point because everything that Tobi did was from using his sharingan.  It's not like he did 300 seal jutsu to fight Minato.
> 
> MS purpose is to control bijuu.  S/T and sharingan prediction will allow you to be defensive.
> 
> ...



you make a very pursuasive case. But you forget that Tobi could kill shinobis with his bare hands alone, choking them, that physical strength would only have come from hashirama/senju dna implanted into him, so Obito would have to have been altered by some1, and since Madara and him know each other that means Madara was still alive a year before the kyubi attack.  

I guess the timeline can fit if Madara really was alive and the one behind the bloody mist/mizukage era and the one in those flashbacks. If he really was the one who met Itachi, the one with the long hair, then it means Madara was also alive up to 8 years after the kyubi attack, or when Sasuke/Naruto were both 7.5 years old.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphoenix said:


> What was said in the magazine?



The script said: Tobi (Obito), something, something....

It referred to Tobi as Obito, basically.


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

X Itachi X said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That sort of argument would have a bit more weight if Kishi didn't have like three or four different archetypes of faces and hairstyles which he uses for almost all characters.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> I'm leaning towards Tobi being a composite of Obito and someone else.  Perhaps someone like Izuna melded his soul with Obito because Izuna's old body was breaking down and he need a new body.


Theres no reason for the like of Izuna to make a comment about the likes of Kakashi visiting ''dead heroes'' tomb, nor the comment about Kakashi regretfull life.
No, even the recent chapters simply implies that Tobi knows Kakashi personally.


----------



## joshhookway (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi and Obito also believe in peace.

I think Madara messed with Obito


----------



## Escargon (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> Hai guys I'm Izuna.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



One of those pics looks like an aged Madara to me. I know you are trying to make Tobi look like Obito but ill bet a rock that that FACE is Madaras DNA.

Oh well hair.

If Tobis hair is cut short, it looks like Obito but less spiky.

If Tobis hair is half long, it looks like Izuna.

If Tobis hair is long, it looks like Madaras.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

Seraphoenix said:


> What was said in the magazine?



Not really "said", but reprinted: a handwritten script made by Kishi to film directed by him (Road to Ninja). Here is what takL translated at that time:


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

I think the long hair Tobi is just Madara's doing to help convince people that Obito is Madara to take his place until Obito could convince Nagato to bring him back to life.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> That sort of argument would have a bit more weight if Kishi didn't have like three or four different archetypes of faces and hairstyles which he uses for almost all characters.



Lol, indeed:


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

auem said:


> long haired man showed his face to kisame and introduced himself as madara..
> 
> again kisame recognized tobi as madara right away....
> 
> so tobi i.e obito looks like original madara..right??


It could have been anything; Genjutsu, Madara told his plan about Tobi taking his role therefore he called him ''Madara'', it could have been anything, the point isnt the arguments from the back then but from today.


----------



## Seraphoenix (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> There was a script in the background from the movie implying ''Madara (Obito) reffering to Tobi. ^^



Thanks. I hope it's just Obito's body. Kishi shouldn't make every Uchiha except Itachi a villain.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> It could have been anything; Genjutsu, Madara told his plan about Tobi taking his role therefore he called him ''Madara'', it could have been anything, the point isnt the arguments from the back then but from today.



If there were two masked men, maybe Kisame was introduced to the short haired one at a later point in time, and knew to refer to him as Madara too?

I don't know.


----------



## Kazekage Gaara (Aug 11, 2012)

In that magazine, did Kishi just reffere to Tobi as Obito?


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> That sort of argument would have a bit more weight if Kishi didn't have like three or four different archetypes of faces and hairstyles which he uses for almost all characters.



Lol true.
You could probably superimpose other characters over Obito and they'll look exactly the same to i guess. The similarity are quite striking, still.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Escargon said:


> One of those pics looks like an aged Madara to me. *I know you are trying to make Tobi look like Obito* but ill bet a rock that that FACE is Madaras DNA.



I don't draw the manga.

Kishimoto does.


----------



## Mateush (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> It doesn't matter.   If Obito Awakened his MS at 14-15 it's a moot point because everything that Tobi did was from using his sharingan.  It's not like he did 300 seal jutsu to fight Minato.
> 
> MS purpose is to control bijuu.  S/T and sharingan prediction will allow you to be defensive.
> 
> ...



The point is that Tobi's body is durable as hell, so it probably means someone took over Obito's body and modifed it to become like Zetsu. OR someone rescued Obito and changed his personality, which I doubt. If it's Obito's body so I don't think it's same soul but someone else. 

Who might it be I'd say Madara or even the Elder Son is most likely, while the latter could be Izuna but Madara almost confirmed his brother is dead.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Lol, indeed:



Dat Kishi


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Kazekage Gaara said:


> In that magazine, did Kishi just reffere to Tobi as Obito?



It was in the script for the latest Naruto movie.


----------



## Kazekage Gaara (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> It was in the script for the latest Naruto movie.


 Isn't it canon since Kishi is writing it?


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Kazekage Gaara said:


> In that magazine, did Kishi just reffere to Tobi as Obito?



Yes.

He had Obito's name written in brackets next to Madara's (Tobi's) name.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Rokudaime Sennin ? said:


> you make a very pursuasive case. But you forget that Tobi could kill shinobis with his bare hands alone, choking them, that physical strength would only have come from hashirama/senju dna implanted into him, so Obito would have to have been altered by some1, and since Madara and him know each other that means Madara was still alive a year before the kyubi attack.
> 
> I guess the timeline can fit if Madara really was alive and the one behind the bloody mist/mizukage era and the one in those flashbacks. If he really was the one who met Itachi, the one with the long hair, then it means Madara was also alive up to 8 years after the kyubi attack, or when Sasuke/Naruto were both 7.5 years old.



No the long haired guy is still Obito IMO.  All Tobi appearances are after Obito disappearance.  Kisame died thinking Tobi was Madara and recognized him.  Likely Madara told Tobi to grow his hair to claim that he was Madara and fill in for him since he was getting real old.  Plan was to have Obito bring him back by manipulating Nagato or continued manipulation of Nagato in his place.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Kazekage Gaara said:


> Isn't it canon since Kishi is writing it?



Yes, unfortunately.


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Escargon said:


> One of those pics looks like an aged Madara to me. I know you are trying to make Tobi look like Obito but ill bet a rock that that FACE is Madaras DNA.
> 
> Oh well hair.
> 
> ...



Izuna also had a ponytail, just like Itachi.  Not sure if that means anything.  



Raventhal said:


> I think the long hair Tobi is just Madara's doing to help convince people that Obito is Madara to take his place until Obito could convince Nagato to bring him back to life.



So you really are implying that Madara was alive up until 7.5 years after the kyubi attack atleast, till the time of the massacre?

Maybe he was just sittin in the shadows like the Sith Lord, ordering his pawn Tobi to do shit in his name.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Yes Izuna's body was breaking down and he needed a new one so he picked a boy crushed by rocks!



There could a few reasons as to why he picked Obito.  Perhaps Obito was the closest one he and desperately needed to change his body. 



loool3 said:


> Theres no reason for the like of Izuna to make a comment about the likes of Kakashi visiting ''dead heroes'' tomb, nor the comment about Kakashi regretfull life.
> No, even the recent chapters simply implies that Tobi knows Kakashi personally.



Which is why I said that Izuna could have melded his soul with Obito, a part of Tobi would be Obito.


----------



## Kazekage Gaara (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> Yes.
> 
> He had Obito's name written in brackets next to Madara's (Tobi's) name.


 Why are we still arguing on Tobi's identity then? lol


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Kazekage Gaara said:


> Why are we still arguing on Tobi's identity then? lol



Looking, hoping for a loop hole, perhaps?


----------



## Escargon (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> I don't draw the manga.
> 
> Kishimoto does.



Mind is fucked.

Btw when is this chapter coming out<<


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Escargon said:


> Mind is fucked.
> 
> Btw when is this chapter coming out<<



Whenever a scanalation group releases it - there are no set time. Especially during a break week such as this.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Mateush said:


> The point is that Tobi's body is durable as hell, so it probably means someone took over Obito's body and modifed it to become like Zetsu. OR someone rescued Obito and changed his personality, which I doubt. If it's Obito's body so I don't think it's same soul but someone else.
> 
> Who might it be I'd say Madara or even the Elder Son is most likely, while the latter could be Izuna but Madara almost confirmed his brother is dead.



Why would another soul have such a connection to Kakashi.  Your over thinking this.  This is a ninja manga not Scooby Doo. 

Tobi looks, thinks when he gets angsty like Obito.   His eye is linked to Obito.   Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...


----------



## Mateush (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Why would another soul have such a connection to Kakashi.  Your over thinking this.  This is a ninja manga not Scooby Doo.
> 
> Tobi looks, thinks when he gets angsty like Obito.   His eye is linked to Obito.   Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...



Oh, Scooby Doo 

Well, it may be true. Kinda fun if he indeed's Obito with same soul, which will make many regret for flaming Tobito's believers.


----------



## Evilene (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Lol, indeed:



Silly boy, that totally means Shisui got around.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Rokudaime Sennin ? said:


> Izuna also had a ponytail, just like Itachi.  Not sure if that means anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol, yep.  It's very Anakin Skywalker like shit. 

Rin = Padame.
Obito = Anakin
Kakashi = Obi
Madara = Darth Sidious.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

Kazekage Gaara said:


> In that magazine, did Kishi just reffere to Tobi as Obito?



F*** no! He let them reprint the script for film:




And in the script itself there was this information. That's why I've said it may have been not planned or wanted for this reveal to leak out.


----------



## UchihaSage (Aug 11, 2012)

Uchiha ANBUs found Obito's corpse
Returned him to Konoha
Used Orochimaru's techniques to revive him
Madara was secretly in Konoha in the Uchiha compound
There Tobi was created by the Uchiha Clan


----------



## daschysta (Aug 11, 2012)

What reason or motivation does someone random like Izuna or anyone else have to be torturing Kakashi about his failures, and be bringing up Obito's grave and his regrets? It is someone who knows Kakashi, or knew Kakashi personally.

Who else other than Obito, or maybe even Rin, would care so much about Kakashi's broken promises? Tobi is being accusatory and vindictive, and seems to blame Kakashi personally, Kakashi's chief failures are allowing Obito to die, and presumably failing to protect Rin. Why would someone just using Obito's eyes care so much, or have intimate knowledge of Kakashi's feelings about it? It's someone personally connected to Kakashi's childhood team.

Calling it now, Kakashi is going to get it together next chapter, Juubi is going to be released, and Kakashi will be the one fighting and defeating Obito, while naruto and bee defeat the Juubi with the 8 and 9 tails.

This whole thing has been about Kakashi's failures, Kishi is going to give him a chance at redemption, by allowing him to "save" his friend Obito this time. Thus year of Kakashi xD.


----------



## auem (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> It could have been anything; Genjutsu, Madara told his plan about Tobi taking his role therefore *he called him ''Madara'*', it could have been anything, *the point isnt the arguments from the back then but from today.*



and third mizukage as well??

why..?!!...consistency should be maintained in all the time-line.....even in narutoverse,nobody can't just pop out from nowhere...


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

son_michael said:


> *looks at spoilers*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You seem happy, I wonder why? 

Let me ask you something; if Tobi is Obito and is *not* redeemed by Naruto/Kakashi will you still be satisfied?

I don't mind Tobi being Obito (if it makes sense) but I can't accept another sob story like Nagato. On the other hand, I won't enjoy him dying a pathetic villain death either. So both options are bad.


----------



## Kazekage Gaara (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> F*** no! He let them reprint the script for film:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Hmm. Well fuck....


----------



## Awesome (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi has to be Izuna. Izuna has personal issues with Kakashi and just decided to steal a dying body from a boulder. Madara himself was lying when he said that Izuna died when in all actuality Izuna was talking around for several years looking for a new body.

Perfectly plausible.

And Kishi calling Tobi Obito means nothing anyway.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Lol My money is that Obito will be defeated but will be the one who stops Madara by warping him.

This thing is too Star Wars like to ignore lol.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> F*** no! He let them reprint the script for film:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whoa, whoa - what's going on here?


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Whoa, whoa - what's going on here?



It was ignored because it was a movie but the movie never revealed who Tobi was.


----------



## daschysta (Aug 11, 2012)

In b4 someone argues that Tobi is Obito only in the alternate universe movie timeline. 

*picardfacepalmgif


----------



## Kazekage Gaara (Aug 11, 2012)

I think that everything was fucked up just now.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Kakashi should fight Obito.


----------



## Awesome (Aug 11, 2012)

come on guise tobi cant be obito! impossible! kishi isnt stupid


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> You seem happy, I wonder why?
> 
> Let me ask you something; if Tobi is Obito and is *not* redeemed by Naruto/Kakashi will you still be satisfied?
> 
> I don't mind Tobi being Obito (if it makes sense) but I can't accept another sob story like Nagato. On the other hand, I won't enjoy him dying a pathetic villain death either. So both options are bad.



This is how I see it.  Obito will be defeated.   Madara will arrive and call him weak and a loser and reveal he had something to do with Rins death or pushed him to kill Rin.  Madara being immortal his main weakness is being sealed or trapped.  A dying Obito redeems himself by warping away Madara trapping him forever.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Whoa, whoa - what's going on here?



Old stuff dear friend! 

I'm not feeling like going through two whole threads discussing this topic to present more quotations.

Point is: Tobi's identity has slipped long ago.


----------



## Kishido (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> Kakashi should fight Obito.



Absolutely this... Sadly it won't happen...


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Hope we get the raws soon.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> This is how I see it.  Obito will be defeated.   Madara will arrive and call him weak and a loser and reveal he had something to do with Rins death or pushed him to kill Rin.  Madara being immortal his main weakness is being sealed or trapped.  A dying Obito redeems himself by warping away Madara trapping him forever.



Only for Madara to break out of it.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> This is how I see it.  Obito will be defeated.   Madara will arrive and call him weak and a loser and reveal he had something to do with Rins death or pushed him to kill Rin.  Madara being immortal his main weakness is being sealed or trapped.  A dying Obito redeems himself by warping away Madara trapping him forever.



considering Kishi said a few weeks ago that he had originally expected the manga to end in one and half years but was surprised that it was going to take him longer, i really doubt this.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> It was ignored because it was a movie but the movie never revealed who Tobi was.



Movie not, Kishi's script yes.


----------



## Kazekage Gaara (Aug 11, 2012)

Yea, Kishi himself wrote the script.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

KiShiDo said:


> Absolutely this... Sadly it won't happen...



yeah i'm a little bummed about it.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Of course Obito was never going to be revealed in a filler movie.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Kind of weird how Obito has dominated over 200 chapters as the main villain of this manga.


----------



## fantzipants (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Why would another soul have such a connection to Kakashi.  Your over thinking this.  This is a ninja manga not Scooby Doo.
> 
> Tobi looks, thinks when he gets angsty like Obito.   His eye is linked to Obito.   Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...



Careful, ninjas are good at deception


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> considering Kishi said a few weeks ago that he had originally expected the manga to end in one and half years but was surprised that it was going to take him longer, i really doubt this.



Yes but there are supposed to be new villains I believe and Sasuke and Naruto having fought and aren't on the same path right now.


----------



## Kishido (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> yeah i'm a little bummed about it.



But maybe he will take his eye after it gaining the EMS... After it he will gain some senju chakra and gets Rinnegan 

Well not really... I hope for some White Fang stuff finally


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

daschysta said:


> In b4 someone argues that Tobi is Obito only in the alternate universe movie timeline.
> 
> *picardfacepalmgif



I don't give a damn. I won't argue with author about that.


----------



## shyakugaun (Aug 11, 2012)

what if madara found obito dead, and used rinnentensei on him to bring him back to life or something....


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

Sounds like a pretty great chapter. I also especially like the Kyuubi sounding pretty fired up and anxious to kick some ass with Naruto. It sounds like next chapter might be a major spotlight chapter for how strong Naruto has become.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

KiShiDo said:


> But maybe he will take his eye after it gaining the EMS... After it he will gain some senju chakra and gets Rinnegan
> 
> Well not really... I hope for some White Fang stuff finally



If he had Obito's right in his left socket would it make him cross eyed?


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

shyakugaun said:


> what if madara found obito dead, and used rinnentensei on him to bring him back to life or something....


No, Obito didn't die, his Sharingan clearly wasnt crushed, and his head didnt crushed also since the boulder was resting on his head.


----------



## Sasukethe7thHokage (Aug 11, 2012)

Well.. i wonder how the people who said he wasnt obito for years feel now? lol

& he is an unchia wow lol


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

It's possible but my guess is that zetsu saved obito which makes sense considering his ability to move underground.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

shyakugaun said:


> what if madara found obito dead, and used rinnentensei on him to bring him back to life or something....



At the time of Obito's death Madara's eyes were already in Nagato's eyesockets. No Rinne Tensei for Obito then. No Madara alive also.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm surprised Madara picked Obito out of nowhere though.  Not like Obito had shown any special powers with his eye. 





Sasukethe7thHokage said:


> Well.. i wonder how the people who said he wasnt obito for years feel now? lol
> 
> & he is an unchia wow lol



the ones that called tobito theorists retards, delusional, dumb, stupid, and so on?


----------



## daschysta (Aug 11, 2012)

KiShiDo said:


> Absolutely this... Sadly it won't happen...



I wager that it will. People are forgetting the Juubii, THAT is going to be what naruto fights once released, not Tobi.

If Tobi is in fact Obito then Kakashi is going to be the one that fights him, there is no way that Kishi bothers to bring back the most important person in Kakashi's life as a villain and then doesn't give him to chance to redeem himself and make up for his mistakes.

It's going to be 

KillerB and Naruto- Juubii
Kakashi, and perhaps Gai- Obito


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> At the time of Obito's death Madara's eyes were already in Nagato's eyesockets. No Rinne Tensei for Obito then. No Madara alive also.



it's seriously doubtful that they were literally given.  Heck look at how long it took Sasuke to recover from his eye transplant.


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

ok lets see.perhaps zetsu found him?and together they continued Madara's plan?
it seems that Madara have known Tobi before his passing.


----------



## Undead (Aug 11, 2012)

Why are we getting spoilers so early? Is the chapter being released earlier as well?


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> I'm surprised Madara picked Obito out of nowhere though.  Not like Obito had shown any special powers with his eye.



INB4 we learn that Obito is a direct descendant of Madara/Izuna.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> At the time of Obito's death Madara's eyes were already in Nagato's eyesockets. No Rinne Tensei for Obito then. No Madara alive also.



Actually its not possible.  And besides only Obito has made the claim not Madara.

If Obito = Tobi knows Madara = Madara died after Nagato awakened Rinnegan.  Meaning Nagato's panel was true. 

I am going with Madara gave Nagato a pair of base Uchiha eyes to mature as an experiment.


----------



## Cymbalize (Aug 11, 2012)

I still cant believe tobi is obito, I hope that whoever is behind the mask has just transplanted obito's eyes, but, everything seems to be turning to crap with the masked guy sounding just like obito(crap abt heroes and all). Timeline plothole this big cannot be overlooked.... Right?


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

At least we get why the Uchiha were such a threat, and why they were unsatisfied with the kages since even the most untalented 14 years old ones are able to duck it out with the second strongest (or even strongest) hokage in his prime.

Most likely, none of Tobirama, Sarutobi and Minato were stronger than the top Uchihas of their times.

Minato took a 14 years old Uchiha for Madara lol.


----------



## Kishido (Aug 11, 2012)

BTW I bet Kakshi will lose his eyesight in this fight and if Obito will get a redemption than he will take his eye as present once again


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> it's seriously doubtful that they were literally given.  Heck look at how long it took Sasuke to recover from his eye transplant.



Actually I think Tobi was lying just to keep Sasuke out of the war.

Kakashi/Tobi have shown ability to fight right after transplant.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> it's seriously doubtful that they were literally given.  Heck look at how long it took Sasuke to recover from his eye transplant.



Why? After all the transplantation stuff and gougingout the eyes it's hard to believe this?


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Cymbalize said:


> I still cant believe tobi is obito, I hope that whoever is behind the mask has just transplanted obito's eyes, but, everything seems to be turning to crap with the masked guy sounding just like obito(crap abt heroes and all). Timeline plothole this big cannot be overlooked.... Right?



There not overlooked they're flat out lies, assumptions or wrong and no longer plot holes.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> it's seriously doubtful that they were literally given.  Heck look at how long it took Sasuke to recover from his eye transplant.



Neither Kakashi and Tobi needed time to recover from their eye transplant.


----------



## Garrod Ran (Aug 11, 2012)

daschysta said:


> I wager that it will. People are forgetting the Juubii, THAT is going to be what naruto fights once released, not Tobi.
> 
> If Tobi is in fact Obito then Kakashi is going to be the one that fights him, there is no way that Kishi bothers to bring back the most important person in Kakashi's life as a villain and then doesn't give him to chance to redeem himself and make up for his mistakes.
> 
> ...



Obito killed kushina


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

lol at people saying Tobito has plotholes, its Kishi writting the manga not you so he knows how the story goes on.


----------



## Shattering (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> it's seriously doubtful that they were literally given.  Heck look at how long it took Sasuke to recover from his eye transplant.



Sasuke got the eyes of a god, it was too much power for him to handle.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

Shattering said:


> Sasuke got the eyes of a god, it was too much power for him to handle.




**


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

daschysta said:


> KillerB and Naruto- Juubii
> Kakashi, and perhaps Gai- Obito



This would mean the "special power" required to defeat Tobi is the sharingan, confirming only an Uchiha can beat an Uchiha unless you are a freak like Hashirama.
Even thrash like Obito would be out of Minato / Naruto league.

The question would be : who out of Obito and Kakashi would provide support to Naruto so that he doesn't get curbstomped by Sasuke ?


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Guys, Tobi is Obito. They have the same eyeshape.

Eyeshape is a defining feature of Kishimoto's characters, so at the very LEAST it is definitely Obito's body.


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Actually its not possible.  And besides only Obito has made the claim not Madara.
> 
> If Obito = Tobi knows Madara = Madara died after Nagato awakened Rinnegan.  Meaning Nagato's panel was true.
> 
> I am going with Madara gave Nagato a pair of base Uchiha eyes to mature as an experiment.



For Tobi to be Obito, Madara HAD to have been alive least up until the point Obito's body was recovered, regenerated using zetsu bodyparts, and Obito shown the TRUTH about the world by Madara, give least a month or 2 for all that, so Madara was alive 10 months before the kyubi attack took place, that much has to be true for the obito theory to make sense.  He could've been alive beyond that time, till the massacre or it could've just been Tobi (obito) who grew his hair.  

Um, if Madara was still alive while Nagato had already awakened the rinnegan and was runnin akatsuki as Pain, then that means Madara himself didn't have the rinnegan, cuz he only awakened that prolly hours/days before his death.  

So that would make Nagato the second Rikudou, not Madara, and it would make his awakening legit, that means Madara must've transferred his/uchiha spiritual energy into Nagato or he f**ked Nagato's uzumaki's mother.  That's the only thing that'll make sense if tobi is to be Obito.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> ok lets see.perhaps zetsu found him?and together they continued Madara's plan?
> it seems that Madara have known Tobi before his passing.



Which is weird to me. If Madara didn't give his eyes to Nagato, then there is definitely another pair of Rinnegan eyes floating around some where, which would give Madara an opportunity to meet Obito before he kicked the bucket.

If that's true, isn't Nagato the Second Six Paths?


----------



## Evil (Aug 11, 2012)

So do you guys understand the hints now?

1: Tobi has Obito's eye.

2: Got it from the battle by Kannabi Bridge.

3: Knows that Kakashi grieves at the Tomb of Fallen Hero's.


----------



## daschysta (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> This would mean the "special power" required to defeat Tobi is the sharingan, confirming only an Uchiha can beat an Uchiha.
> Even thrash like Obito would be out of Minato / Naruto league.



Kakashi's MS has been shown to be the key to defeating Tobi's phasing jutsu.

The Kyuubii will be the key to deafeating the Juubii.

Minato had the foresight to surmise that Tobi's plan revolved around collecting all the bijuu, and gave Naruto the ability to stop him.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Evil said:


> So do you guys understand the hints now?
> 
> 1: Tobi has Obito's eye.
> 
> ...



I'm not rofling though.

You could have given us the spoilers last wednesday.


----------



## †obitobi (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Which is weird to me. If Madara didn't give his eyes to Nagato, then there is definitely another pair of Rinnegan eyes floating around some where, which would give Madara an opportunity to meet Obito before he kicked the bucket.
> 
> If that's true, isn't Nagato the Second Six Paths?



Perhaps Nagato was given a pair of sharingan, and his _Uzumaki_ genes had a similar effect as Hashirama's _senju_ genes had on Madara's sharingan, in my opinion.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Rokudaime Sennin ? said:


> For Tobi to be Obito, Madara HAD to have been alive least up until the point Obito's body was recovered, regenerated using zetsu bodyparts, and Obito shown the TRUTH about the world by Madara, give least a month or 2 for all that, so Madara was alive 10 months before the kyubi attack took place, that much has to be true for the obito theory to make sense.  He could've been alive beyond that time, till the massacre or it could've just been Tobi (obito) who grew his hair.
> 
> Um, if Madara was still alive while Nagato had already awakened the rinnegan and was runnin akatsuki as Pain, then that means Madara himself didn't have the rinnegan, cuz he only awakened that prolly hours/days before his death.
> 
> So that would make Nagato the second Rikudou, not Madara, and it would make his awakening legit, that means Madara must've transferred his/uchiha spiritual energy into Nagato or he f**ked Nagato's uzumaki's mother.  That's the only thing that'll make sense if tobi is to be Obito.



He could have just given him some base Uchiha eyes.  Instead of triggering sharingan you get Rinnegan in a younger son descendant.  Or maybe he gave him his old eyes.  Or yeah maybe Nagato is Madara's son since they do look alike.

But I've been saying for a while that we've discarded panels with visual evidence on the words of Tobi.  His words only had weight because we thought he was Madara but he's not.


----------



## k2nice (Aug 11, 2012)

Evil's spoilers weren't that hard to comprehend, people were just putting way to much thought into it.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

daschysta said:


> Kakashi's MS has been shown to be the key to defeating Tobi's phasing jutsu.
> 
> The Kyuubii will be the key to deafeating the Juubii.
> 
> Minato had the foresight to surmise that Tobi's plan revolved around collecting all the bijuu, and gave Naruto the ability to stop him.



Kakashi may be able to hit him but he does not have anything to finish Tobi, does he?

Kurama again reiterated that Minato left the power with Naruto to defeat Tobi. Its virtually impossible that Naruto/Kurama are not the ones to defeat him.

Kakashi may play a significant role, but he won't be primary combatant, merely an enabler.


----------



## Deadway (Aug 11, 2012)

Big deal, we now have confirmation on something that was obvious 200 chapters or so ago. Maybe more.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm unsure whether I like Orochimaru to be final villain. I love him, but if he's final villain, than that means Naruto has Tobi, Orochimaru and Juubi to defeat. That's just too much. I'd rather prefer for Orochimaru to be Sasuke's final villain. Naruto gets Tobi, and consequently, the Juubi. Madara is the kage's bitch. He'll be defeated by the power of friendship / teamwork. Perhaps the rookies can lend a hand and make it even worse.

Tobito's sob story is Rin. I'd love if Kishimoto tied Shisui and make it Obito's older brother. Like this, the 12 year olds who cringe at love being an excuse to do things can feel a bit more comfortable. Shisui also died for the ninja system after all, and it sucked. He accomplished _nothing_.

All Tobito "plotholes" do not exist. There have been several explanations to fit all of them (refer to the discussion thread for details). Whether they are right or wrong isn't important. The bottom line is that if a bunch of people on a board can come up with excuses to explain away said inconsistencies in a coherent way, then that means Kishimoto can do it too. The only one which may not is the Kisame one, as he recognised long hair Tobi and short hair Tobi as the same. I've been thinking about it... it seems like Tobi is composed of various parts, so maybe half of his face is Madara's (to fit parts that got crushed) and that's what Kisame recognised.

Or maybe Kisame saw the eye alone and he made the connection. The long haired man steps into the light, but who knows if he took the mask off. Remember, all Uchihas are either part of the Leaf or dead, whether that Yagura flashback was before or after the massacre. There were no rebel Uchihas, so Kisame made the link between the two peach easy, because there's no other alternative. Either that or a mixture of the two, because both Tobi and Madara (at some point before dying) had parts of Hashirama / Zetsu on them, so that's what Kisame recognised and what he linked. While this is very likely IRL, this seems more forced in a written work though, especially one aimed at children.



Nic said:


> I'm surprised Madara picked Obito out of nowhere though.  Not like Obito had shown any special powers with his eye.



Something that is interesting. Many pointed out for years that Izuna was the most likely candidate because Madara's younger brother, someone that he loved, furthermore Tobi and Izuna had relatively the same height and weight, furthermore they looked alike. If we consider that and if Tobito is true, that means Obito is like Izuna v2.0 in Madara's POV. Obito's even missing an eye, which he gave to someone else because they believe in their power. It's Uchihas, probably all inbred anyway, all look alike. After decades of being alone, in a manga that seems so hell bent on EVERYONE NO MATTER HOW SUCKY THEY ARE having bonds and how they are important and how losing them sucks and makes you suffer, it doesn't seem so strange that Madara would take Obito in because he reminded him of Izuna.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

daschysta said:


> Minato had the foresight to surmise that Tobi's plan revolved around collecting all the bijuu, and gave Naruto the ability to stop him.



That's completely wrong. Minato never guessed that. (no Juubi or juubi collection if Naruto fights alongside Kyuubi) 
He acted completely retarded during the attack, he even confused his 14 years old student he hadn't seen for less than a year with Uchiha Madara.


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Neither Kakashi and Tobi needed time to recover from their eye transplant.



maybe it only takes time for EMS only since it's combining the spiritual energies/powers of the 2 uchiha siblings, so the eyes while they're Itachi's still have to incorporate Sasuke's own power into em, why that EMS transplantation could be unique, unlike a sharingan or rinnegan translplantation which already comes with everything powered up.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> That's completely wrong. Minato never guessed that. (no Juubi or juubi collection if Naruto fights alongside Kyuubi)
> He acted completely retarded during the attack, *he even confused his 14 years old student he hadn't seen for less than a year with Uchiha Madara.*



That's the most funny thing out of all this.


----------



## Trojan (Aug 11, 2012)

Evil said:


> So do you guys understand the hints now?
> 
> 1: Tobi has Obito's eye.



He has Obito's eye only, or he is Obito?


----------



## AceBizzle (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> lol at people saying Tobito has plotholes, its Kishi writting the manga not you so he knows how the story goes on.



So to you, there is no such thing as plotholes?


----------



## ZiharkXVI (Aug 11, 2012)

I still don't think it is Obito.  More than likely it is just Obito's eye and Tobi is screwing with Kakashi's emotions just like he's screwing around with Naruto's emotions right now as well.  Tis what he does.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> That's completely wrong. Minato never guessed that. (no Juubi or juubi collection if Naruto fights alongside Kyuubi)
> He acted completely retarded during the attack, he even confused his 14 years old student he hadn't seen for less than a year with Uchiha Madara.



What was this retarded action?

Him confusing Tobi with someone else has no value. Whoever the threat was, he dealt with them enough to make them scurry away.


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Which is weird to me. If Madara didn't give his eyes to Nagato, then there is definitely another pair of Rinnegan eyes floating around some where, which would give Madara an opportunity to meet Obito before he kicked the bucket.
> 
> If that's true, isn't Nagato the Second Six Paths?



Precisely, for Tobito to be true, Madara had to have been alive and without the rinnegan while Nagato had it, so Nagato would be the second Rikudou.  (pS, don't says the second six paths, you'll just end up confusing more, that translation already did nuff damage, it's second "Sage of Six paths")


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

TorJaN said:


> He has Obito's eye only, or he is Obito?



He's just telling us what he's seeing in the chapter.

Evil is not Kishimoto.

Read the spoiler thread and make up your own mind.


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

The most logical choise is still *Izuna Uchiha*. It just makes perfect sense. 

He has Obito's right Sharingan which he knew would be handy in the future. His Rinnegan eye is actually his original eye that Madara took from him earlier. The world thought he was dead, he could follow all the events from shadows.


He said to Konan that the Rinnegan eyes were originally and rightfully his. This would be true since Madara took his eyes and later they evolved into Rinnegan. Madara gave the eyes to Nagato and now Izuna took back what was his in the first place.
His connection with Madara would make perfect sense.
We never actually saw Izuna die. He was on the same level as Madara, how would he die so easily after just losing his eyes?
His knowledge would make sense. I mean how the hell would someone like Obito gain such knowledge? Izuna on the other hand led the Uchihan clan with Madara. He had knowledge of the tablet and all of the clan's secrets.
Tobi's and Izuna's databook height and weight are perfect match.
Tobi's fight with Minato makes sense. Obito would have been only a mere kid at that point and not nearly as powerful enough to even dream of fighting Minato. Izuna on the other hand was on the same level with Madara thus more than capable of fighting Minato.
His hair matches. It's spiky and deep black, but when long it's clearly a bit different from Madara's, which looks more lushy.
He wore the mask because world thought that Izuna had died. He also could take Madara's identity so he could start the war more easily.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

Wow, Obito became quite a badass. But then, we don't really know the actual timeline between the Kakashi Gaiden and Minato's reign as Hokage, do we? 

I never thought the idea of it being Obito as impossible, but I kinda thought it would be Madara's brother. The meltdowns will be glorious.


----------



## Saizo sarutobi (Aug 11, 2012)

Rokudaime Sennin ? said:


> For Tobi to be Obito, Madara HAD to have been alive least up until the point Obito's body was recovered, regenerated using zetsu bodyparts, and Obito shown the TRUTH about the world by Madara, give least a month or 2 for all that, so Madara was alive 10 months before the kyubi attack took place, that much has to be true for the obito theory to make sense.  He could've been alive beyond that time, till the massacre or it could've just been Tobi (obito) who grew his hair.
> 
> Um, if Madara was still alive while Nagato had already awakened the rinnegan and was runnin akatsuki as Pain, then that means Madara himself didn't have the rinnegan, cuz he only awakened that prolly hours/days before his death.
> 
> So that would make Nagato the second Rikudou, not Madara, and it would make his awakening legit, that means Madara must've transferred his/uchiha spiritual energy into Nagato or he f**ked Nagato's uzumaki's mother.  That's the only thing that'll make sense if tobi is to be Obito.


what if obito time traveled in his near death?space time ninjutsu right?then he met madara in the past who repaired him with zetsu goo and trained him cause he already needed someone to keep his moon eye plan.
see?no plotholes
tobito lives!


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

funny thing is Obito was known as a Liar and as Tobi he was the biggest liar of them all.


----------



## ZiharkXVI (Aug 11, 2012)

AceBizzle said:


> So to you, there is no such thing as plotholes?



Of course there are such things.  The explanation between the conversation Tobi had with Konan and Tobi being Obito is not good.  If something cannot be reconciled like that, a plothole exists.

Most stories have them, even if their author decides to go ahead with it anyways.  Perhaps the author feels the need to change the direction of the story, or whatever.  It still would not jive, and there is very little one can do to change that at this point (previous chapters have already been written, and what has been done and said could not be undone).


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> Wow, Obito became quite a badass. But then, we don't really know the actual timeline between the Kakashi Gaiden and Minato's reign as Hokage, do we?
> 
> I never thought the idea of it being Obito as impossible, but I kinda thought it would be Madara's brother. The meltdowns will be glorious.



Well the Gaiden says 18 years ago and Naruto's birthday is 16 years ago.


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Evil said:


> So do you guys understand the hints now?
> 
> 1: Tobi has Obito's eye.
> 
> ...



second part doesn't make sense. why would Obito say that he got his eye from the battle at kannabi bridge, if Tobi is really Obito, he wouldn't have gotten his eye then, unless he awakened his Mangekyou right at that moment of his death, then he would've just been referring to the jutsu itself, so wat are the translations referring to, the eye or the jutsu? cuz if he said eye, then Tobi would be some1 else.


----------



## SaiST (Aug 11, 2012)

Rokudaime Sennin ? said:


> second part doesn't make sense. why would Obito say that he got his eye from the battle at kannabi bridge, if Tobi is really Obito, he wouldn't have gotten his eye then, unless he awakened his Mangekyou right at that moment of his death, then he would've just been referring to the jutsu itself, so wat are the translations referring to, the eye or the jutsu? cuz if he said eye, then Tobi would be some1 else.


They're talking about the eye.

Doesn't mean he would *have* to be someone else though.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

ZiharkXVI said:


> I still don't think it is Obito.  More than likely it is just Obito's eye and Tobi is screwing with Kakashi's emotions just like he's screwing around with Naruto's emotions right now as well.  Tis what he does.


There's a small chance he's not Obito and is just using his eye, but don't bet on it. I am a little surprised that Kishi is basically giving it away _before_ the mask is off completely. That makes a twist possible.


----------



## Trojan (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> He's just telling us what he's seeing in the chapter.
> 
> Evil is not Kishimoto.
> 
> Read the spoiler thread and make up your own mind.



I did, but people here say something like Tobie is Obito because
ha has his eye!! and that nonsense. For example, Danzo has Shisui's eye does that 
mean Danzo is Shisui ? The same with Kakashi ... etc

I just wanna make sure because of that I asked him.

Sorry about me bad English ~~


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Was Rin shown alive at the battle of Kannabi Bridge?


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

yes she was alive.


----------



## ZiharkXVI (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> There's a small chance he's not Obito and is just using his eye, but don't bet on it. I am a little surprised that Kishi is basically giving it away _before_ the mask is off completely. That makes a twist possible.



I would hope its not Obito.  It just doesn't make any sense, despite the protests of the Tobito fans.  The fact that Kakashi didn't come right out and say it this chapter may tell us something as well.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Rokudaime Sennin ? said:


> second part doesn't make sense. why would Obito say that he got his eye from the battle at kannabi bridge, if Tobi is really Obito, he wouldn't have gotten his eye then, unless he awakened his Mangekyou right at that moment of his death, then he would've just been referring to the jutsu itself, so wat are the translations referring to, the eye or the jutsu? cuz if he said eye, then Tobi would be some1 else.


Wasnt it ''the eye'' ''during'' the battle, basically Obito reffering him awakening the Sharingan during the battle.


----------



## SaiST (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Was Rin shown alive at the battle of Kannabi Bridge?


Next to Minato.


----------



## k2nice (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Well the Gaiden says 18 years ago and Naruto's birthday is 16 years ago.



I don't know why people are still in denial about Tobi/Obito gaining one jutsu that is extremely effective against minato in TWO YEARS.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi merely answered Kakashi's question.

Kakashi asked where he got it from, not if he already had it.

Tobi said he got it during the battle at the Kannabi Bridge, so he was present.

If Tobi were to outright say that it was already his or something of that sort he'd be confirming that he's Obito, and there would be nothing to reveal.

That can't happen yet. Kakashi is starting to have his mental breakdown, and in a chapter or two he'll go crazy.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Maybe by getting the sharingan at Kannabi bridge, he meant he awakened it. It's logical because he DID after all awaken his sharingan at Kannabi bridge.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

TorJaN said:


> I did, but people here say something like Tobie is Obito because
> ha has his eye!! and that nonsense. For example, Danzo has Shisui does that
> mean Danzo is Shisui ? The same with Kakashi ... etc
> 
> ...



no because of the talk of promises that kakashi couldn't fulfill (Kakashi promising Obito right before he dies that he'd protect Rin for him)

Because of his talk about the world not needing heroes anymore when in the Kakashi gaiden had Obito revering Heroes. 

His talk of heroes then weeping at his own tomb. 

i could go on and on. 

Because of his talk about Kakashi needing to shut his mouth etc when Obito was told to do the same by Kakashi or his talk about knowing Kakashi on sucn a personal level and finally

Kakashi going nuts in this chapter when he realizes that Tobi is in fact an alive Obito


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

Rokudaime Sennin ? said:


> second part doesn't make sense. why would Obito say that he got his eye from the battle at kannabi bridge, if Tobi is really Obito, he wouldn't have gotten his eye then, unless he awakened his Mangekyou right at that moment of his death, then he would've just been referring to the jutsu itself, so wat are the translations referring to, the eye or the jutsu? cuz if he said eye, then Tobi would be some1 else.



Because that's where Obito got the eye. 

Remember, he didn't have a Sharingan until the battle at Kannabi Bridge. So he's saying that he "got" the Sharingan at that battle. Which Obito did. 

Whether he means he unlocked it or stole it is ambiguous.


----------



## Deva Path (Aug 11, 2012)

JuubiSage said:


> The most logical choise is still *Izuna Uchiha*. It just makes perfect sense.
> 
> He has Obito's right Sharingan which he knew would be handy in the future. His Rinnegan eye is actually his original eye that Madara took from him earlier. The world thought he was dead, he could follow all the events from shadows.
> 
> ...



This. Izuna is the perfect fit to me.


----------



## ryz (Aug 11, 2012)

being late to the party and all, could somebody link me to Evil's original post, where he first released said hints?


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Rokudaime Sennin ™ said:


> second part doesn't make sense. why would Obito say that he got his eye from the battle at kannabi bridge, if Tobi is really Obito, he wouldn't have gotten his eye then, unless he awakened his Mangekyou right at that moment of his death, then he would've just been referring to the jutsu itself, so wat are the translations referring to, the eye or the jutsu? cuz if he said eye, then Tobi would be some1 else.


Anyways theres no doubt anyways, Tobis comment about Kakashi visintg a dead heroes tomb simply confirms Tobito, theres seriously nothing holding it back anymore.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Maybe by getting the sharingan at Kannabi bridge, he meant he awakened it. It's logical because he DID after all awaken his sharingan at Kannabi bridge.



yes he got the sharingan at kannabi bridge. 

The thing that sealed the tobito theory being right is tobi's talk about Kakashi not being able to fulfill his promises. (most notably protecting Rin that was made to tobi/Obito) then Kakashi laughing hysterically when he realizes Obito is in front of him alive.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

I may be wrong, but Obito never made it to Kannabi bridge, right ?

They were supposed to head there, but Rin was captured. Kakashi and Obito abandoned the mission to tracked their kidnappers. Obito died during that battle in a cave.

It's only later they went to Kannabi Bridge without Obito obviously.
So when Kakashi was destroying the bridge and starting the legend of Sharingan Kakashi, Tobi was collecting Obito's eye.

So it's the *when* that matters, not the *where*. He didn't get the eye at Kannabi Bridge, he got it when Kakashi was there. He is no Obito who has nothing to do with this bridge. (unless Kishi means the whole Gaiden with this name)


----------



## Kanker (Aug 11, 2012)

*Spoiler alert*


*Spoiler*: __ 



Naruto suddently starts singing 

'_I've been really tryin , baby 
Tryin to hold back these feelings for so long 
And if you feel, like I feel baby 
Come on, oh come on, 

Let's get it on 
Lets get it on 
Let's get it on 
Let's get it on '_

This will remind Tobi of his mother, because that's the song he always heard when he went to sleep. 

Tears will be shed and grandpa Tobi will edo grandma Chiyo and he will get it on. 

Untill the end of time... Yeah baby!

R.i.p. Marvin Gaye


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Seriously people still trying to deny, the fullfulling promise spoilers confirmed the whole theory already.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> I may be wrong, but Obito never made it to Kannabi bridge, right ?
> 
> They were supposed to head there, but Rin was captured. Kakashi and Obito abandoned the mission to tracked their kidnappers. Obito died during that battle in a cave.
> 
> ...



lol if Obito wasn't at the kannabi bridge then obviously tobi wouldn't have collected his eye there.


----------



## emanresu (Aug 11, 2012)

Kakashi laughs at the fact that his pal is alive all this while. Now Kishi needs to explain how Obito grew taller than Minato


----------



## Louis-954 (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> I may be wrong, but Obito never made it to Kannabi bridge, right ?
> 
> They were supposed to head there, but Rin was captured. Kakashi and Obito abandoned the mission to tracked their kidnappers. Obito died during that battle in a cave.
> 
> ...


Yes, the Kannabi Bridge was destroyed after Obito passed.


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 11, 2012)

To all plot holes in Tobito theory I have one answer:

Time traveling.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CYDgezeQas[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

emanresu said:


> Kakashi laughs at the fact that his pal is alive all this while. Now Kishi needs to explain how Obito grew taller than Minato


Not needed, Kishi never explained also why a 13 years old Itachi was even tall as 20 years old Kisame when they partnered up at that bridge scene.
Or Naruto being even tall as his dad in his seal, or current Naruto being even tall as current Tobi...


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

emanresu said:


> Kakashi laughs at the fact that his pal is alive all this while. Now Kishi needs to explain how Obito grew taller than Minato



right after he explains why 11 year old itahi was as tall as orochimaru.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

JuubiSage said:


> The most logical choise is still *Izuna Uchiha*. It just makes perfect sense.
> 
> He has Obito's right Sharingan which he knew would be handy in the future. His Rinnegan eye is actually his original eye that Madara took from him earlier. The world thought he was dead, he could follow all the events from shadows.
> 
> ...



This could also be explained as Tobi speaking for Madara. He does that often after all. Therefore, he'd be giving Nagato his original eyes (not Shisui's). It doesn't make much sense for someone to give their own eyes to someone else, and then to roam about blind for an indescriminate number of time. I agree this might not be possible considering Shisui's unnaccounted pair of eyes though, but then Madara's body seems to have vainshed without a trace. Tobi was surprised Kabuto had material for his Edo Tensei after all.



> His connection with Madara would make perfect sense.



True. Howwever, Izuna doesn't explain the blatant personal issues Tobi has with Kakashi.



> We never actually saw Izuna die. He was on the same level as Madara, how would he die so easily after just losing his eyes?


We didn't saw Izuna die, but we saw him dead inside a coffin. Furthermore, we didn't see Obito die, either.



> His knowledge would make sense. I mean how the hell would someone like Obito gain such knowledge? Izuna on the other hand led the Uchihan clan with Madara. He had knowledge of the tablet and all of the clan's secrets.



This is an unlikely problem. Zetsu records battles that Tobi watches later, he probably records everything that is needed, like coversations. Obito could have learnt everything from Zetsu.



> He has Obito's eye, of course he needed a new Sharingan since Madara had taken his Sharingan.



This doesn't explain the blatant preference Tobi has for Obito's sharingan. He uses a one eyed mask, even though he had both eyes all along, as VS Konan demonstrated. It is hint that the eye is personally relevant to Tobi. Being his originally, and as such Tobi being Obito, would fit such a thing.



> Tobi's and Izuna's databook height and weight are perfect match.



It isn't a perfect match.



> Tobi's fight with Minato makes sense. Obito would have been only a mere kid at that point and not nearly as powerful enough to even dream of fighting Minato. Izuna on the other hand was on the same level with Madara thus more than capable of fighting Minato.



Tobi didn't fight all that well against Minato. He only used S/T, chains and exploding tags. S/T is most likely tied to MS. No Uchiha trains his MS. It's given to them and they master it shortly after of adquiring it. Chains and exploding tags aren't the epitome of a ninja's arsenal.



> His hair matches. It's spiky and deep black, but when long it's clearly a bit different from Madara's, which looks more lushy.



So does Obito's when it's short.



> He wore the mask because world thought that Izuna had died. He also could take Madara's identity so he could start the war more easily.



This also fits for Obito, though.

I wouldn't mind Izuna. I was 50-50 between him and Obito a few weeks ago. However, his relevance towards Kakashi is difficult to explain.



Nic said:


> funny thing is Obito was known as a Liar and as Tobi he was the biggest liar of them all.



Yes.


----------



## Orochibuto (Aug 11, 2012)

I hope its Obito, only because of the way skeptics treated Obito fans during all this time


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:
			
		

> I may be wrong, but Obito never made it to Kannabi bridge, right ?
> 
> They were supposed to head there, but Rin was captured. Kakashi and Obito abandoned the mission to tracked their kidnappers. Obito died during that battle in a cave.
> 
> ...


I think he might have meant during the _battle_ of Kannabi bridge.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

This just made further confirmation for me that Tobi isn't Obito.
It's too fucking obvious at this point.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> I may be wrong, but Obito never made it to Kannabi bridge, right ?
> 
> They were supposed to head there, but Rin was captured. Kakashi and Obito abandoned the mission to tracked their kidnappers. Obito died during that battle in a cave.
> 
> ...



I think it's more implication of the mission because Obito's eye wouldn't be there either.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Rokudaime Sennin ? said:


> second part doesn't make sense. why would Obito say that he got his eye from the battle at kannabi bridge, if Tobi is really Obito, he wouldn't have gotten his eye then, unless he awakened his Mangekyou right at that moment of his death, then he would've just been referring to the jutsu itself, so wat are the translations referring to, the eye or the jutsu? cuz if he said eye, then Tobi would be some1 else.



Because.... TOBI IS NOT OBITO

Isn't that spoiler clear enough?

HE TOOK OBITO'S EYE

That's what Evil told us.

i don't why are you guyz arguing something that clear...


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Ironic. Now Kakashi will be the one laughing hysterically.


----------



## Louis-954 (Aug 11, 2012)

> Kakashi laughs at the fact that his pal is alive all this while. Now Kishi needs to explain how Obito grew taller than Minato


Obito would have been 14 at that time. Boys can hit some insane growth spurts around those ages. If Tobi is Obito then you really don't need to stretch your imagination all that much to see why he was as tall as/slightly taller than Minato.


----------



## ZiharkXVI (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> yes he got the sharingan at kannabi bridge.
> 
> The thing that sealed the tobito theory being right is tobi's talk about Kakashi not being able to fulfill his promises. (most notably protecting Rin that was made to tobi/Obito) then Kakashi laughing hysterically when he realizes Obito is in front of him alive.



But then again, that's just Tobi doing what he does best.  We've seen it with Sasuke, we're seeing it even now with Naruto.  If he did snatch Obito's eye, then he most likely was there to witness the promise Kakashi made.

Although, more than likely, it was a rerun on Zetsu TV.


----------



## shyakugaun (Aug 11, 2012)

i just realized something, now kakashi & naruto both have best friends who converted to the Darkside


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobitobi said:


> Perhaps Nagato was given a pair of sharingan, and his _Uzumaki_ genes had a similar effect as Hashirama's _senju_ genes had on Madara's sharingan, in my opinion.



Perhaps, that's another possibility that Nagato given a sharingan that upgraded.  



Raventhal said:


> He could have just given him some base Uchiha eyes.  Instead of triggering sharingan you get Rinnegan in a younger son descendant.  Or maybe he gave him his old eyes.  Or yeah maybe Nagato is Madara's son since they do look alike.
> 
> But I've been saying for a while that we've discarded panels with visual evidence on the words of Tobi.  His words only had weight because we thought he was Madara but he's not.



yea, I like the thought of him giving Nagato his old eyes instead of just a random sharingan.  Since Madara would've had Izuna's Mangekyou for his EMS, that means his own Mangekyou eyes which lost the light would've been useless to him, he prolly saved em and tried experimentin with em by implanting em into an uzumaki, and implanted senju genes within himself to see which would be a better way to upgrade to the rinnegan.  

Tobi's statement that they were his eyes to begin with would still hold true since he was impersonating Madara and if they were Madara's old blind Mangekyou which awakened into the rinnegan.  So implanting a Mangekyou (blind or not) into an uzumaki would awaken a rinnegan, and getting senju energies/dna into an EMS awakens the rinnegan.  It would make Tobi's second statement invalid tho, neither he or Madara would've been the second Rikudou.


----------



## Orochibuto (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> Because.... TOBI IS NOT OBITO
> 
> Isn't that spoiler clear enough?
> 
> ...



Yes this is why he went talking to Kakashi on a personal level about things.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> I think it's more implication of the mission because Obito's eye wouldn't be there either.



I have edited slightly my post, but in the pic, he says he got *during* the battle, which makes sense, it is when Obito was agonizing if he wasn't pity killed. He doesn't say he himself was at the battle. He insists on the time since he also says he got the eye *when* Kakashi gained his sharingan nickname


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

shyakugaun said:


> i just realized something, now kakashi & naruto both have best friends who converted to the Darkside



yeah Kakashi and Naruto can have some special bonding time now.


----------



## Gunners (Aug 11, 2012)

Louis-954 said:


> Obito would have been 14 at that time. Boys can hit some insane growth spurts around those ages. If Tobi is Obito then you really don't need to stretch your imagination all that much to see why he was as tall as/slightly taller than Minato.



I would explain it away as half of his body consisting of Zetsu goop. Let's be frank the bolder crushed most of him.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> Yes this is why he went talking to Kakashi on a personal level about things.



He speak this way with everybody...


----------



## Skywalker (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi needs to not be Obito, Kishi needs to do something we aren't expecting.


----------



## Orochibuto (Aug 11, 2012)

Seriously people "Lol Obito couldnt have growth so much during 2 years!" 

Did you people forgot that Kabuto once was pre RS level with the edo army in a matter of MONTHS?


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> Kakashi laughs at the fact that his pal is alive all this while. Now Kishi needs to explain how Obito grew taller than Minato


Actually, Tobi is shorter than Minato.

Also, how is it impossible for a 15-16 year old teen to be just under 5'9?


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

Honestly, he's making it too obvious. It shouldn't even be confirmed until his mask comes off. Kakashi suspects he's Obito as do the readers. We are expecting it to be him.

I'll be back when it's revealed that it isn't. Just his face/eye.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> Seriously people "Lol Obito couldnt have growth so much during 2 years!"
> 
> Did you people forgot that Kabuto once was pre RS level with the edo army in a matter of MONTHS?



Except there wasn't 2 years, but less than 1.

Kishi even went out of his way to make the point that Gai and Kakashi were still *KIDS* during the Kyuubi attacks and needed to be treated as such.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Ace, so if Kishimoto were to make it obvious with another character, you'd be saying that Tobi is Obito?


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

Bwahaha, I told you guys.

You should have listened.


----------



## geG (Aug 11, 2012)

Quick heads up I'm about to post in the spoiler thread but it's just a translation of part of the chapter directly from the Japanese text rather than Japanese -> Chinese -> English, so don't get too excited


----------



## Orochibuto (Aug 11, 2012)

Lol, Obitobi fans are going to eat the skeptics if it turn out to be Obito and I will be glad to see that. I will even create an "What didnt made any sense again?" thread 

I hope this teach you people NOT TO BASH OTHERS, I dislike Obito but its only to see how the skeptics are eaten alive that will bring me glee to see its him.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Geg said:


> Quick heads up I'm about to post in the spoiler thread but it's just a translation of part of the chapter directly from the Japanese text rather than Japanese -> Chinese -> English, so don't get too excited



Do a good job. We're counting on you.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Skywalker said:
			
		

> Tobi needs to not be Obito, Kishi needs to do something we aren't expecting.


Kishi's target is the general audience, not super hardcore fans digging into everything to find the hidden meanings within the hidden meanings and posting them on forums. I'm sure that for the general audience, Tobi being Obito would come as quite a surprise.


----------



## Orochibuto (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Except there wasn't 2 years, but less than 1.
> 
> Kishi even went out of his way to make the point that Gai and Kakashi were still *KIDS* during the Kyuubi attacks and needed to be treated as such.



Hmmmm less than 1, the time we saw Kabuto go an even more dramatic power advance, so it wouldnt be the first time.

Seriously with the entire edo tensei army he was pre RS level and its hard to believe Obito could achieve to be able to fight at Minato level in less than a year too?


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

I am still lolling at the people which were like; lol Obito has nothing to do with Tobi.
And now they are: lol its too obvious Tobi being Obito, Kishi is doing it on purpose.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> Ace, so if Kishimoto were to make it obvious with another character, you'd be saying that Tobi is Obito?



What?

I'm saying that he's leading us. It's a red herring. Who gives massive hints and revelations like these before the mask comes off? It's not even guessing at this point, he's basically slapping Obito in our faces without so much as even revealing what he looks like. Unless of course, the man under the mask isn't necessarily who we believe it to be, or rather, who the author wants us to believe is him.

Seriously how anti climatic would it be at this point? If Tobi is Obito he may as well pull the mask off now because he just destroyed any tension with the mask being ripped off.

I won't concede on this unless we get a back story reconciling all of the plot problems with Obito being Tobi.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

yeah he sure was using red herrings with Pain.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> Except there wasn't 2 years, but less than 1.
> 
> Kishi even went out of his way to make the point that Gai and Kakashi were still KIDS during the Kyuubi attacks and needed to be treated as such.


Do your math correctly. It was at least 2 years.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> Hmmmm less than 1, the time we saw Kabuto go an even more dramatic power advance, so it wouldnt be the first time.
> 
> Seriously with the entire edo tensei army he was pre RS level and its hard to believe Obito could achieve to be able to fight at Minato level in less than a year too?



Edo is a game breaker. Without it, he was still pwned by Itachi. 
And he was already very high level (Kakashi level) pre-timeskip, so his progression is not even that spectacular. Especially when he was handheld and only perfected techniques created by Orochimaru.


----------



## †obitobi (Aug 11, 2012)

ZiharkXVI said:


> Of course there are such things.  The explanation between the conversation Tobi had with Konan and Tobi being Obito is not good.  If something cannot be reconciled like that, a plothole exists.
> 
> Most stories have them, even if their author decides to go ahead with it anyways.  Perhaps the author feels the need to change the direction of the story, or whatever.  It still would not jive, and there is very little one can do to change that at this point (previous chapters have already been written, and what has been done and said could not be undone).



The fact that Tobi, before that point, was a witness to the majority of the Akatsuki's resurrection, save Konan, should, in my opinion, justify his continuum as a Madara imposter, at that point.

Especially since not only do we eventually discover that he was suspicious that the jutsu has flaws, we find out that the very flaw that it has is something that completely nullifies the fact that someone has died - an independent ET summon (Madara, Itachi).

I imagine that if the only reason that he told the "truth" to Konan was because she, apparently, was about to die, then it would totally defeat that purpose in the condition that she escapes ET.

Just my opinion.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Louis-954 said:


> Obito would have been 14 at that time. Boys can hit some insane growth spurts around those ages. If Tobi is Obito then you really don't need to stretch your imagination all that much to see why he was as tall as/slightly taller than Minato.



Tobi is 5'7 folks.  Minato is 5'9.  Not like these guys are giants.  I was 5'7 at 14, 5'10 at 15, 6'1 at 16, 6'3 at 17.  I grew 12 inches from 12 or 13 to 17.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> I'll create a world where heroes will no longer have to make pathetic excuses in front of the graves of friends.





HAHAHAHAHA SOMEONE POST EVIL'S PICTURE NOW
IT MAKES SENSE

AHAHAHAHA


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Do your math correctly. It was at least 2 years.



Okay
Kakashi is 13 during KG
Kakashi is 26 during Pt 1
Naruto is 12 during pt1

Alright, now, How many years between Kakashi KG and Naruto's birth ?

The guy who told it was said KG took place 18 years ago made up the number.


----------



## Kobe (Aug 11, 2012)

We're reading a manga where eye transplant/trade is common, yet people want to jump at the conclusions at the spot.

Itachi borrowed Shisui's eye and cast his original doujutsu.

It's the same thing here. I mean obvious. Hell this whole mini-Itachi saga and those revelations could be a hint to this recent event.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

HAHAAHA FUCKING EVIL STRIKES AGAIN
HAHAHA


----------



## Orochibuto (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Edo is a game breaker. Without it, he was still pwned by Itachi. And he was already very high level (Kakashi level) pre-timeskip, so his progression is not even that spectacular. Essentially when it's all based on perfecting techniques created by Orochimaru.



We can say the same thing about Obito. S/T jutsu is a game breaker. Without it, he was still pwned by fodders. And he was already (for his age) very high level being able to pwn adult Chunnins, so his progression is not even that spectacular. Essentially when it's all based on using the jutsu he got with his sharingan.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Kobe considering how awful your NBA analysis is please keep thinking that way.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

No one ever doubt Evil's spoilers again.


----------



## Skywalker (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Kishi's target is the general audience, not super hardcore fans digging into everything to find the hidden meanings within the hidden meanings and posting them on forums. I'm sure that for the general audience, Tobi being Obito would come as quite a surprise.


I don't think so, the idea has been around for quite a number of years now, I doubt it'd surprise anyone at this point.

I'd be more surprised if it was someone else.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Kakashi: !! ...You're...

Tobi: I already told you! You always talk too flippantly! Since you've degraded into a man who does nothing but spout lip-service, your words hold no value or meaning! Even if you have regrets, it's too late. Reality... just cruelly pushes forward. You've seen that reality for yourself; you should understand... In this world, it's impossible to make even one of your wishes come true. That's why it must be guided toward my Infinite Tsukuyomi dream... I'll create a world where heroes will no longer have to make pathetic excuses in front of the graves of friends.

Kakashi starts breathing heavily.

Guy: Hey! Are you all right, Kakashi!?


HAHA  DDDDDD


----------



## Hippojack (Aug 11, 2012)

"Kakashi starts to breathe heavily".
"I already told you..."

With those sentences, Tobi is clearly Obito.


----------



## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

So, Kakashi knows who Tobi is. Nice. Kakashi you smart mother fucker, you are too good.


----------



## Deva Path (Aug 11, 2012)

...and here it comes.

(not the chapter, the shitstorm)


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

poor Kakashi he just got mind-fucked that his best friend became the world's biggest evil threat.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

Do I really have to dig that Evil picture up?
Well I'll try.


----------



## Divinstrosity (Aug 11, 2012)

Ok...

...how does this all work?

How was Obito wacksauce, and then suddenly is able to go toe to toe with Minato? 

Come on, Kishimoto.


----------



## Godammit (Aug 11, 2012)

finally translation


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Jad said:


> So, Kakashi knows who Tobi is. Nice. Kakashi you smart mother fucker, you are too good.



More like too dumb for not realizing earlier.

Haha.


----------



## Deadway (Aug 11, 2012)

When Minato saves Obito from the stone guy
Minato: Never let your guard down!

When Minato strikes Tobi with Hiraishin
Tobi: I should have never let my guard down.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)




----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Divinstrosity said:


> Ok...
> 
> ...how does this all work?
> 
> ...



Divin it's been so long.

Even the weakest of Uchiha > Minato.

It's canon now.


----------



## Kobe (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> Kobe considering how awful your NBA analysis is please keep thinking that way.



Yeah because your character analysis is always on the spot (!) ..25-13..


Tobi is an eye collector. That much is proven already. If people want to stay dumb, go ahead. Disappointment awaits.


----------



## Orochibuto (Aug 11, 2012)

Divinstrosity said:


> Ok...
> 
> ...how does this all work?
> 
> ...



Kabuto went from weaksauce to in less than a year be able to fight an entire alliance and almost destroyed the 5 kages if it wasnt for Itachi and Sasuke battling him while he was away from his ET.

Naruto went in less than a week from being Kakashi level to be able to go toe to toe with Pain (albeit massively gimped). It woulnt be the first time we see that.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Divinstrosity said:


> Ok...
> 
> ...how does this all work?
> 
> ...



might have been trained on how to control his space time by Madara. Another possibility is that the kamui dimension has time that flows faster than that of the real world.


----------



## Octavian (Aug 11, 2012)

Divinstrosity said:


> Ok...
> 
> ...how does this all work?
> 
> ...



yea i know, i'm still  baffled by how obito even has enough chakra to control gedo mazo, 6 bijuus, and summon the fucking juubi. 

this has to be izuna with obito's eye


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

yea from the script it seems that Tobi has a grudge against what kakashi couldn't do.
it looks like he indeed might be Obito who has changed due to Kakashi failed promise to him.


----------



## Godammit (Aug 11, 2012)

It's confirmed Obito, all the theories and proofs lead to this simply ? Why are people still denying the fact that he's obito ? Everything makes sense ?


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> Divin it's been so long.
> 
> *Even the weakest of Uchiha > Minato.*
> 
> It's canon now.



Actually it even the strongest Uchiha < Minato.


----------



## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

I reckon somehow, Time moves faster in Tobi's space time world. Perhaps he sent himself into his own dimension and he recovered quickly but aged as well.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Kobe said:


> Yeah because character analysis is always on the spot (!) ..25-13..
> 
> 
> Tobi is an eye collector. That much is proven already. If people want to stay dumb, go ahead. Disappointment awaits.



it was 25-12 turkey. 

yet always kept this one eye and used the other as the replacement, the one he used for izanagi?  Of course he'd collect eyes, he'd have an infinite number of lives to waste.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

Again, this is my biggest gripe with the theory. He was controlling Yagura with long hair, showed his face to Kisame and Kisame trusted him. 15+ years later he showed him the same face and Kisame recognized him as the same guy.

Obito was too young to be controlling Yagura at that point.
At this point I'm thinking he switched bodies.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Melas said:


> Actually it even the strongest Uchiha < Minato.



14 year old Obito > Prime Minato.

Feels good.


----------



## Deva Path (Aug 11, 2012)

Kakashi's failed promise about keeping Rin safe led to Obito Uchiha coming back from the dead and creating an Infinite Tsukuyomi to destroy the world?

Nah.


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

so Tobi is indeed Obito .it seems he's known kakashi directly and his failed promise.
so all of that because of Rin?
epic shitstorm is on the way!


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Octavian said:


> yea i know, i'm still  baffled by how obito even has enough chakra to control gedo mazo, 6 bijuus, and summon the fucking juubi.
> 
> this has to be izuna with obito's eye



he has senju chakra in him, hence why he has the rin'negan.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Honestly, he's making it too obvious. It shouldn't even be confirmed until his mask comes off. Kakashi suspects he's Obito as do the readers. We are expecting it to be him.
> 
> I'll be back when it's revealed that it isn't. Just his face/eye.


Kishi's writing is obvious sometimes, but this level of obvious is insulting. He's told us who is under the mask before it's even off! So it's either a red herring or Kishi actually thinks he's surprising the readers. I guess he doesn't read Naruto forums much.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

Octavian said:


> yea i know, i'm still  baffled by how obito even has enough chakra to control gedo mazo, 6 bijuus, and summon the fucking juubi.
> 
> this has to be izuna with obito's eye



At this point, Izuna would be convoluted and unnecessary. 

Plus it would be anticlimactic. Nobody there will even recognize Izuna or know who he is. In fact nobody in the world would other than Madara. So Tobi's mask would come off and it would just be some guy. Not to mention Madara said he was dead. 

We might as well just admit that we've been had and it was Obito all along. As far as how he could do all that, I dunno, guess he got some major powerups. He was probably trained by Madara.



Easley said:


> Kishi's writing is obvious sometimes, but this level of obvious is insulting. He's told us who is under the mask before it's even off! So it's either a red herring or Kishi actually thinks he's surprising the readers. I guess he doesn't read Naruto forums much.



You have to remember, we're hardcore fans. Something obvious to us might not be obvious to casual readers. And lets be honest, casual readers wouldn't even know who Izuna was. He hasn't even been named in the manga.


----------



## Fay (Aug 11, 2012)

Damn...poor Kakashi...


----------



## Deadway (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Again, this is my biggest gripe with the theory. He was controlling Yagura with long hair, showed his face to Kisame and Kisame trusted him. 15+ years later he showed him the same face and Kisame recognized him as the same guy.
> 
> Obito was too young to be controlling Yagura at that point.
> At this point I'm thinking he switched bodies.



Remember, he's got Zetsu goo inside him, the same Zetsu who can make exact copies of people. "Special kind of clone" according to Kisame.


----------



## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

Zetsu Senju


----------



## Shattering (Aug 11, 2012)

Ok so Tobi is Obito... I just want a good explanation of how a nice kid became an adult villain in 1-2 years, time travel I suppose... this could be interesting after all.

Btw you know what's going to happen in next chapter right? Kishi will swap to Sasuke or Madara


----------



## Godammit (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Again, this is my biggest gripe with the theory. He was controlling Yagura with long hair, showed his face to Kisame and Kisame trusted him. 15+ years later he showed him the same face and Kisame recognized him as the same guy.
> 
> Obito was too young to be controlling Yagura at that point.
> At this point I'm thinking he switched bodies.



Why is anyone "Too Young" Too young for what ? How old is Naruto and Sasuke ? Right look at their powers ? How old is Itachi when he did his thing ?


Age has nothing to do with it.. Especially in a shonen where characters are long for their age.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Deva Path said:


> Kakashi's failed promise about keeping Rin safe led to Obito Uchiha coming back from the dead and creating an Infinite Tsukuyomi to destroy the world?
> 
> Nah.



first of all we don't know if that's all there is to it.  For all we know his whole family got killed off due to war.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

And Kakashi thought he could give moral/life/revenge lessons to Sasuke, this fucker.

He better think about his own life and all the wrong he did.


----------



## Final Jutsu (Aug 11, 2012)

well shit, now it really does seem to be obito with the new translation


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

I guess it really was laughter.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> Kishi's writing is obvious sometimes, but this level of obvious is  insulting. He's told us who is under the mask before it's even off! So  it's either a red herring or Kishi actually thinks he's surprising the  readers. I guess he doesn't read Naruto forums much.



It's insulting to me intelligence, yes.


> so Tobi is indeed Obito .it seems he's known kakashi directly and his failed promise.
> so all of that because of Rin?





> Kakashi's failed promise about keeping Rin safe led to Obito Uchiha  coming back from the dead and creating an Infinite Tsukuyomi to destroy  the world?
> 
> Nah



Reminds me of Nagato's dog


----------



## Divinstrosity (Aug 11, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> Kabuto went from weaksauce to in less than a year be able to fight an entire alliance and almost destroyed the 5 kages if it wasnt for Itachi and Sasuke battling him while he was away from his ET.
> 
> Naruto went in less than a week from being Kakashi level to be able to go toe to toe with Pain (albeit massively gimped). It woulnt be the first time we see that.



 Kabuto is tier-5 in intelligence. Even in part 1, I felt he was EXTREMELY clever. That ish he pulled off against Tsunade where he had to relearn how to use his body was nothing short of genius. 

Kabuto's ascension makes A LOT more sense, whereas Obito was portrayed as lame across the board. 

Just having the sharingan isn't enough, because how Itachi and Sasuke were both considered geniuses before awakening their sharingan. Obito was considered unusual because he was a lame Uchiha. Getting the sharingan wouldn't have suddenly made him Minato level. 

Sorry, it doesn't make sense.


----------



## Mateush (Aug 11, 2012)

Godammit said:


> It's confirmed Obito, all the theories and proofs lead to this simply ? Why are people still denying the fact that he's obito ? Everything makes sense ?



They deserve some time to eat their own cruelty against Tobito's believers.


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

by the way with the previous thread and this one we've passed the 3000 post mark.come on lets reach 5000!


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Shattering said:


> Ok so Tobi is Obito... I just want a good explanation of how a nice kid became an adult villain in 1-2 years, time travel I suppose... this could be interesting after all.
> 
> Btw you know what's going to happen in next chapter right? Kishi will swap to Sasuke or Madara



nagato was a nice kid that went bad

gaara was a nice kid that went bad

sasuke was an ass but a nice kid at heart who went bad

heck even oro seemed nice as kid and he turned into quite the psycho.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 11, 2012)

All the chapter is basically saying is that Tobi claimed Obito's eye. Nothing more. He's talking on a personal level to mock Kakashi for his failure to save Obito there, since if he had Tobi wouldn't have this ability.


----------



## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

You know what? I hope Tobi isn't Rin with Obito's eye. That shit would fuck everything up. And her entire world domination is over Obito death xD


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> Kishi's writing is obvious sometimes, but this level of obvious is insulting. He's told us who is under the mask before it's even off! So it's either a red herring or Kishi actually thinks he's surprising the readers. I guess he doesn't read Naruto forums much.



This was exactly the same for Nagato

Actually, it was even worse for Nagato, he even made a code, and introduced ninja riddles solvers to reveal there was a 7th body who controlled them all.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi or Obito, its of no concern to me save to highlight two points.

First, another villain with a dubious sob-story. The moron was let down by "heros", so decides to brainwash everyone. Dumb Uchihas.

Second, with this, the list of decent Uchihas goes down further. Who is left on it?


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> All the chapter is basically saying is that Tobi claimed Obito's eye. Nothing more. He's talking on a personal level to mock Kakashi for his failure to save Obito there, since if he had Tobi wouldn't have this ability.



And how does he know this personal information about Kakashi?


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> It's insulting to me intelligence, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> *Reminds me of Nagato's dog*


Funny thing, because I've wondered if Rin was from Inuzuka clan: she had markings on her cheeks, but no dog.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> Kishi's writing is obvious sometimes, but this level of obvious is insulting. He's told us who is under the mask before it's even off! So it's either a red herring or Kishi actually thinks he's surprising the readers. I guess he doesn't read Naruto forums much.



I agree, this kind of writing is pretty damn bad.  If it turns out to be Obito after-all the dramatic shattering of the mask will have lost almost all the impact it could have had.


----------



## Godammit (Aug 11, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> All the chapter is basically saying is that Tobi claimed Obito's eye. Nothing more. He's talking on a personal level to mock Kakashi for his failure to save Obito there, since if he had Tobi wouldn't have this ability.



Kakashi: Where did you get that eye!?

Tobi: ...Where, you ask? Hmph... I suppose if I have to say, it was during the previous war. At the battle of the Kannabi Bridge... The battle where you came to be known as the Sharingan Hero.

Kakashi: *!! ...You're...*

Tobi: *I already told you! You always talk too flippantly! Since you've degraded into a man who does nothing but spout lip-service, your words hold no value or meaning! Even if you have regrets, it's too late. Reality... just cruelly pushes forward. You've seen that reality for yourself; you should understand... In this world, it's impossible to make even one of your wishes come true. That's why it must be guided toward my Infinite Tsukuyomi dream... I'll create a world where heroes will no longer have to make pathetic excuses in front of the graves of friends.*

*Kakashi starts breathing heavily.*



It's Obito, suck it up


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

OBito is Rin.
Rin left Konoha, took Obito's body and took his eye. Now she's back to claim world dominance.

Canon.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 11, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> And how does he know this personal information about Kakashi?


How does he know all the personal information about Hashirama, Madara, and everyone else in the manga?



Godammit said:


> Kakashi: Where did you get that eye!?
> 
> Tobi: ...Where, you ask? Hmph... I suppose if I have to say, it was during the previous war. At the battle of the Kannabi Bridge... The battle where you came to be known as the Sharingan Hero.
> 
> ...


Don't you remember all the speeches and personal information Tobi had of Hashirama, Izuna, and Madara? Oh wait, you don't, you ignore it to just say it's Obito.


----------



## Octavian (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> he has senju chakra in him, hence why he has the rin'negan.



i thought the rinnegan was the evolution of the sharingan.


----------



## †obitobi (Aug 11, 2012)

Octavian said:


> yea i know, i'm still  baffled by how obito even has enough chakra to control gedo mazo, 6 bijuus, and summon the fucking juubi.
> 
> this has to be izuna with obito's eye



Perhaps Tobi took some of Kushina's chakra. Would explain the chakra chains.

Just my opinion.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Okay
> Kakashi is 13 during KG
> Kakashi is 26 during Pt 1
> Naruto is 12 during pt1
> ...



I couldn't have sworn I read 18 years ago.  But it says 10 years ago. I assume from part 1 which doesn't make sense either lol.  

LikeNaruto

10 years from part 1 would mean they would be 16.  But Kyuubi attack took place 16 years ago.


----------



## Jad (Aug 11, 2012)

It's Obito's father, SUCK IT UP EVERYONE. I WIN! YOU WERE ALL WRONG xD


----------



## son_michael (Aug 11, 2012)

*clears throat*



*WE WIN BITCHES!! WE WIN!!!!!*


----------



## shyakugaun (Aug 11, 2012)

so it is Obito...mmhhh, this will be interesting


----------



## Divinstrosity (Aug 11, 2012)

To think OBITO started Akatsuki, and gave Nagato his Rinnegan? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! 


The Itachi twist has be completely and utterly trumped!!


----------



## Octavian (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> OBito is Rin.
> Rin left Konoha, took Obito's body and took his eye. Now she's back to claim world dominance.
> 
> Canon.



"tobito" planning to infinite tsukuyomi the world over the loss of rin.

what's next. VoTE was really about mito?


----------



## daschysta (Aug 11, 2012)

Louis-954 said:


> Yes, the Kannabi Bridge was destroyed after Obito passed.



The Kannabi bridge mission was a sabotage, not an outright battle, the whole mission could easily be referred to as the "kannabi bridge mission" since that was its objective. Thus the battle Obito and Kakashi fought vs. the Rock Jounin could feasibly be referred to as the battle of kannabi bridge.


----------



## T7 Bateman (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> poor Kakashi he just got mind-fucked that his best friend became the world's biggest evil threat.



Poor Kakashi. It is his year after all. Nothing says how much Kishi loves you more then a lil mindfucking.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> 14 year old Obito > Prime Minato.
> 
> Feels good.



Feeling good is no problem particularly when denying reality.

Tobi was incapable of even causing any damage to Minato but you are free to believe what you wish, its to be expected from fans of villains who are destined to be losers.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

son_michael said:


> *clears throat*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



WRITE DOWN THEIR NAMES!

HUMILATION AWAITS!


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

It's not Obito.
Everyone here make a comment about how shit I am. If I'm wrong, I'll quote it and put it in my sig and I'll wear any set that Obito fans think is necessary to mock me.


----------



## tnorbo (Aug 11, 2012)

well with this reveal its official. 

this manga is shit.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

brb bathing in tears


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

When I say not Obito I mean his soul. Not his eye. It's clearly his eye. And face.



> well with this reveal its official.
> 
> this manga is shit.



Manga's been shit for a while.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobitobi said:


> Perhaps Tobi took some of Kushina's chakra. Would explain the chakra chains.
> 
> Just my opinion.



He has senju DNA.


----------



## Hasan (Aug 11, 2012)

Jiraiya was there...


----------



## Saizo sarutobi (Aug 11, 2012)

Divinstrosity said:


> Ok...
> 
> ...how does this all work?
> 
> ...



Obito,in his near situation,time traveled to the past.where,madara,trying to make expiriences with the senju power,found him and treated him.than he was trained by madara as his pupil,to continue the moon eye plan after his death.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 11, 2012)

ALl the chapter confirms is that Tobi has Obito's eye. He got it _after_ the bridge was destroyed. I mean dear god, are you actually taking Tobi's speech here at face value now?


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

i guess the real Madara was still alive at this point and he saved Obito or revived him and left him with the task to complete his plans.
the one who met Itachi was the real Madara,but the one who fought Minato and onwards was Obito.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

Octavian said:


> "tobito" planning to infinite tsukuyomi the world over the loss of rin.



That sounds reasonable.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

> Tobi: Hmph... Entrusted, eh...? But Naruto... If you were to ignore the things that Jiraiya and the Fourth Hokage entrusted you with, how do you think they would feel?



omg Obito is really butthurt with Kakashi for failing to protecting Rin.


----------



## Fay (Aug 11, 2012)

Divinstrosity said:


> To think OBITO started Akatsuki, and gave Nagato his Rinnegan? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
> 
> 
> The Itachi twist has be completely and utterly trumped!!



I know right 

Cute little Obito, how...interesting you've grown .


----------



## Lurko (Aug 11, 2012)

I love that tobi is obito because so many people bashed the idea and I knew it was true just like minato being nardo's father.


----------



## KevKev (Aug 11, 2012)




----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

vered you're one of them.

Don't try to change your tune now.

Your name will be written on the list.



tnorbo you too.

You were also wrong about the rinnegan being in that scroll. So that's another one.


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobito is far from confirmed. I still think it's Izuna with Obito's eye, it makes far more sense.

Again I'm not saying that Tobito is impossible, I think Izuna is far more likely and that these Tobito hints might be just Kishi's attempt to misdirect the reader.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

Divinstrosity said:


> To think OBITO started Akatsuki, and gave Nagato his Rinnegan? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
> 
> 
> The Itachi twist has be completely and utterly trumped!!



Nah. Remember, Kishi confirmed that Tobi and Madara know each other. And Madara already knew about Akatsuki and the Moon's Eye Plan. 

So most likely, Madara himself started Akatsuki. Him and Zetsu probably saved Obito from dying, and then he took on Obito as his apprentice. At some point after that, Madara died and had Tobi/Obito take his place. He probably told Tobi to have Nagato revive him once they were done collecting the tailed beasts.


----------



## Awesome (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> It's not Obito.
> Everyone here make a comment about how shit I am. If I'm wrong, I'll quote it and put it in my sig and I'll wear any set that Obito fans think is necessary to mock me.





> Kakashi: Where did you get that eye!?
> 
> Tobi: ...Where, you ask? Hmph... I suppose if I have to say, it was  during the previous war. At the battle of the Kannabi Bridge... The  battle where you came to be known as the Sharingan Hero.
> 
> ...


Just saying 



tnorbo said:


> well with this reveal its official.
> 
> this manga is shit.



I'm sorry that Kishi doesn't cater to your fandoms and sticks with themes that have been foreshadowed since the beginning of Part 2.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 11, 2012)

Its jsut Tobi using Obito's eye. Until the mask comes off, you really can't claim he is Obito.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

come on Divin, Madara gave Nagato the rin'negan not Obito.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

The early celebration is amazing.
I'll be back to claim my victory soon enough young ones


The Nagato/Pain revelation isn't comparable. He actually didn't outright state anything, he just left us guessing, we just over analyzed on this forum and came to the conclusion that it was Nagato. Casual readers had no idea. With this chapter, even a fucking 10 year old would figure out ti's Obito, and the mask hasn't even come off yet. This is insulting to my reading ability.

HEY IT'S OBITO
2 CHAPTERS LATER, MASK COMES OFF. HEY...IT'S OBTIO
Oh wait I already knew that thanks to this chapter, thanks.


----------



## Illairen (Aug 11, 2012)

Since when were you under the impression that Tobi is not Obito?


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ALl the chapter confirms is that Tobi has Obito's eye. He got it _after_ the bridge was destroyed. I mean dear god, are you actually taking Tobi's speech here at face value now?



You in denial. Even if it's not Obito.  Your supposed to think it's him lol.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Its jsut Tobi using Obito's eye. Until the mask comes off, you really can't claim he is Obito.



you realize that when it's obito's face the anti tobito theorists will still claim he's someone else right?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 11, 2012)

How does Tobi, if he is Obito, know all this personal information about Hashirama, Madara, Izuna, and Konoha's founding? How does he know of Tobirama's mindset during the early years?

Again, you're not seeing its a red herring.


----------



## Fay (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm kind of hoping that Obito doesn't die...so Kakashi will have Obito back and Naruto will have Sasuke back.

And then Sasuke and Obito can start a new Uchiha clan together


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> The early celebration is amazing.
> I'll be back to claim my victory soon enough young ones
> 
> 
> ...



that's because you're referring to yourself not the average 12 year old reader that doesn't read this manga weekly and is Kishi's targeted audience.


----------



## Divinstrosity (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> come on Divin, Madara gave Nagato the rin'negan not Obito.



Hey!

The guy behind the mask is the one who appeared to Pain and Konan after the Sasuke fight, and he is the one who killed Konan, and claimed to have given Nagato that eye. 

I want to see how Kishimoto will make this work. Ain't saying it's IMPOSSIBLE...

...but, let's just say I'm interested in seeing this unfold.


----------



## Kobe (Aug 11, 2012)

Inb4 Tobi could see what the other eye was seeing through space time technique so he knows what Kakashi went through.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> How does Tobi, if he is Obito, know all this personal information about Hashirama, Madara, Izuna, and Konoha's founding? How does he know of Tobirama's mindset during the early years?
> 
> Again, you're not seeing its a red herring.



How does your history teacher know about George Washington?


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> You in denial. Even if it's not Obito.  Your supposed to think it's him lol.



That's my entire point
That's the defintion of a red herring.



> you realize that when it's obito's face the anti tobito theorists will still claim he's someone else right?



We've been admitting it's Obito's face for more than a year now. As well as his eye.  What are you getting at?


----------



## Si Style (Aug 11, 2012)

I won't believe it until that mask has been taken off.

Without incredible justification, it's an awful twist if it's true.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> How does Tobi, if he is Obito, know all this personal information about Hashirama, Madara, Izuna, and Konoha's founding? How does he know of Tobirama's mindset during the early years?
> 
> Again, you're not seeing its a red herring.



Either Madara told him, the Uchiha tablet, or Zetsu's recording capability.  There are a lot of ways kishi can explain this.


----------



## Louis-954 (Aug 11, 2012)

Man, assuming Tobi is using Obitos eye, how invincible would Obito have been if he survived and kept both of his eyes?


----------



## Grimsley (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi is Obito? 

Let the meltdowns begin... :ho


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> that's because you're referring to yourself not the average 12 year old  reader that doesn't read this manga weekly and is Kishi's targeted  audience.



No actually, I'm referring to anyone with a 5th grade reading level. You don't slap something in someones face only for the biggest reveal of the manga to be the exact same thing you confirmed 2 chapters earlier.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> How does Tobi, if he is Obito, know all this personal information about Hashirama, Madara, Izuna, and Konoha's founding? How does he know of Tobirama's mindset during the early years?
> 
> Again, you're not seeing its a red herring.



His master (ie. Madara) probably told him his story.


----------



## Octavian (Aug 11, 2012)

question about the end of the chapter...when it says naruto goes into kyuubi mode, does that mean bijuu mode or his regular lightbulb RM mode?


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> question about the end of the chapter...when it says naruto goes into  kyuubi mode, does that mean bijuu mode or his regular lightbulb RM mode



Pretty sure it's bijuu mode.
Expect shit to go down.







WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS WHERE THE FUCK IS MADARA
His final villain status is getting solidified at this point. Tobi doesn't have much longer.


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm definitely with ♠Ace♠ on this.

Tobito is being hinted way too much in this chapter. It's misdirection, Kishi makes you think it's Obito and when the mask comes off it isn't Obito and thus it's shocking. If it's Obito it's not shocking at all and the mask coming off has no impact.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Once again, nothing tells us in the script that Tobi is obito.

He says he got his eye where Obito was.

he talks about the past of kakashi and his failures...

But that's all...

He speaks this way with everybody. As he known them for a long time.

He speak to naruto the same way right just after speaking to kakashi.

Mentionning Jman and his father... 

No No No

Nothing is stated


----------



## tnorbo (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> vered you're one of them.
> 
> Don't try to change your tune now.
> 
> ...



oh I admit I was wrong about him not being obito, doesn't mean I'm not seriously pissed about it.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> No actually, I'm referring to anyone with a 5th grade reading level. You don't slap something in someones face only for the biggest reveal of the manga to be the exact same thing you confirmed 2 chapters earlier.



It's been slapped in your face since Tobi appeared lol.   

All the evidence.  Even the authors notes state the fact.  And you deny it lol.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> How does your history teacher know about George Washington?


Except Tobi showed he PERSONALLY KNEW THEM. He didn't give historical attributes, he talked about Hashirama and Madara like he KNEW them.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS WHERE THE FUCK IS MADARA



Spanking the kages for being unruly brats.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

"It's misdirection"

HAHAHAHA where were you guys when I was saying the same thing about Tobi being Madara?


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> This was exactly the same for Nagato
> 
> Actually, it was even worse for Nagato, he even made a code, and introduced ninja riddles solvers to reveal there was a 7th body who controlled them all.


The first time Jiraiya saw Pain (animal path) we didn't know much about his six bodies or the Rinnegan. It was only later after the Rain backstory that things became clear. The code thing went too far I agree.


----------



## Face (Aug 11, 2012)

Fay said:


> I'm kind of hoping that Obito doesn't die...so Kakashi will have Obito back and Naruto will have Sasuke back.
> 
> And then Sasuke and Obito can start a new Uchiha clan together



If he is Obito then I wouldn't mind if it were to end that way.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> I couldn't have sworn I read 18 years ago.  But it says 10 years ago. I assume from part 1 which doesn't make sense either lol.
> 
> LikeNaruto
> 
> 10 years from part 1 would mean they would be 16.  But Kyuubi attack took place 16 years ago.



Naruto was 12/13 in Part 1. It would mean Kannabi Bridge battle was when he was 2/3 y.o. LOL

Thankfully it said "around 10 years ago", not excatly 10 years ago.


----------



## Leptirica (Aug 11, 2012)

This confirms nothing except that this guy knows a few things about Kakashi - which isn't weird at all as Kakashi is in possession of the second from the pair of eyes that have proven very useful to him. 

Dude has done his research, and found in Kakashi's dwelling another confirmation of the rightness his philosophy or whatever. I don't see why everyone's pissing their pants.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

JuubiSage said:


> I'm definitely with ♠Ace♠ on this.
> 
> Tobito is being hinted way too much in this chapter. It's misdirection, Kishi makes you think it's Obito and when the mask comes off it isn't Obito and thus it's shocking. If it's Obito it's not shocking at all and the mask coming off has no impact.



Lol you have to remember the average reader isn't collaborating and ripping apart every panel and line in the manga.  They're more likely to be shocked than us.  Hell half you can't believe it's Obito now lol.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

Okay let  me put it this way. I'm writing a manga. 300 some odd chapters in I introduce a character with a mask, his identity is a mystery. Slowly but surely he becomes very important to the point where his final villain status is all but deniable. However, his identity is still a mystery and the character who he said he is, is actually dead and was revived.

Now, as the story progresses, I make him fight with the main character and Kakashi. Half way through the fight, I FUCKING TELL YOU WHO THE CHARACTER IS BY SLAPPING IT IN YOUR FACE WITH A 2X4

Two chapters later, the mask comes off and I destroyed all tension because I basically confirmed it two chapter earlier.
If this isn't considered shit writing, someone shoot me.


----------



## Mantux31 (Aug 11, 2012)

598, Tobi's identity reveal
599, Tobi removes mask
600, Tobi's flashbacks


----------



## daschysta (Aug 11, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Its jsut Tobi using Obito's eye. Until the mask comes off, you really can't claim he is Obito.



Tobi's speech about how much it hurts when someone fails to protect what has been entrusted to them, his constant jibes at Kakashi failing, the fact that Obito did awakent he sharingan during the battle at Kanabi bridge, Kakashi's reaction...

The direction is clear, obviously you can't say 100 percent until it happens, but it is infinitely more likely Obito than anyone else at this point.

What motive does Izuna have to explain this behavior.


----------



## son_michael (Aug 11, 2012)

Ace's name is going on the top of the list. Followed by gameboy, supersaiyaman. vered, juubisage

come on keep adding to that list tobito brothers.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 11, 2012)

At least wait to see what is behind the mask. Since all that was confirmed is Obito's eye is being used by Tobi.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

Premature celebrating much.


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

JuubiSage said:


> The most logical choise is still *Izuna Uchiha*. It just makes perfect sense.
> 
> He has Obito's right Sharingan which he knew would be handy in the future. His Rinnegan eye is actually his original eye that Madara took from him earlier. The world thought he was dead, he could follow all the events from shadows.
> 
> ...



I still prefer this.  I would like it to be Izuna with Obito's eye.  Basically Madara and Izuna's ideals with Obito's Mangekyou eye power.  But you have to admit there's still a possibility for Tobito to be true, depending on more revelations about Madara.  So stay open to that idea, I have faith in Kishi.  



Raventhal said:


> Well the Gaiden says 18 years ago and Naruto's birthday is 16 years ago.



18 years ago from wat point, end of part 1 or beginning of part 2?

idk there was a very detailed timeline thread, that calculated everything taking into account Naruto and Kakashi's ages.  But according to that Minato became hokage not long after the 3rd ninja world war and he reigned as hokage for 1 year, Obito would have to be about 14.5 or 15 years at most when Tobi attacked konoha.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Naruto was 12/13 in Part 1. It would mean Kannabi Bridge battle was when he was 2/3 y.o. LOL
> 
> Thankfully it said "around 10 years ago", not excatly 10 years ago.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46r4aRs_zLI[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

Fay said:


> I'm kind of hoping that Obito doesn't die...so  Kakashi will have Obito back and Naruto will have Sasuke back.
> 
> And then Sasuke and Obito can start a new Uchiha clan together


Should this give me hope Sakura will be joining Rin?


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

My name should be atop the list. So when I'm right I'll come back and claim victory.
I'll probably be banned either way. If it's Obito, porn images all day. If it's not, flaming all day

YEAH


----------



## Kobe (Aug 11, 2012)

daschysta said:


> Tobi's speech about how much it hurts when someone fails to protect what has been entrusted to them, his constant jibes at Kakashi failing, the fact that Obito did awakent he sharingan during the battle at Kanabi bridge, Kakashi's reaction...
> 
> The direction is clear, obviously you can't say 100 percent until it happens, but it is infinitely more likely Obito than anyone else at this point.





Kobe said:


> Inb4 Tobi could see what the other eye was seeing through space time technique so he knows what Kakashi went through.






> What motive does Izuna have to explain this behavior.


He's a master manipulator


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

People need to realize that Obito fits with all the themes. I mean, thsi is asuming you like great writing. If not, you probably think it's Kagami or something.



			
				SuperSaiya12manWhatever... said:
			
		

> Hurr durr, I'm a hater and I'm gonna hate.


Red herring? Alright, how the hell will Kishi be able to justify anyone but Obito giving all these speeches to Kakashi. Don't say "Hurr durr, he studied him". No. Everything Tobi's been saying recently strongly hints that he personally know Kakashi.


----------



## Octavian (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Pretty sure it's bijuu mode.
> Expect shit to go down.
> 
> 
> ...



yea if its tobito (which i don't believe) i'm removing that garbage tobi from my sig 

and yea, this pretty much solidifies madara as FV. oro is too weak to do shit to naruto or sasuke and madara is too powerful for just 1 person to take him on...


----------



## daschysta (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> No actually, I'm referring to anyone with a 5th grade reading level. You don't slap something in someones face only for the biggest reveal of the manga to be the exact same thing you confirmed 2 chapters earlier.



Except he hasn't confirmed it, just implied it. To a younger child or preteen it very well may not be nearly as obvious. He hasn't confirmed it.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> I mean, thsi is asuming you like great writing.



HAHAHAHAHA THE IRONY


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> Except he hasn't confirmed it, just implied it. To a younger child or  preteen it very well may not be nearly as obvious. He hasn't confirmed  it.



Tell that to the people in this thread.

And yes, it's kind of fucking obvious he's slapping it in our face. He gave the battle that Obito was going too, has the same dimension as Tobi, the name is fucking similar and his face and hair look exactly like Obito's.


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

hey dont add me to any lists.i was never really interested in the Tobi identity clashes.
the only thing that interests me is the connection to Madara and the Rinnegan/Nagato connection.
Looking at this chapter there's a good chance Tobi is Obito in mind and spirit as well but we cant exclude the possibility of him being Izuna with obito's eye and body(and memories).


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

ADD ME TO THE LIST
I WANT YOU TOO

PUT MY NAME IN BOLD LETTERS AND SPARKLES


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Lol, Tobi has been kind of obvious from the beginning but it was too obvious for anyone to think the author would go that route but then agian this isn't Scooby Doo or is it?


----------



## Hippojack (Aug 11, 2012)

Shiny were the times where we could see barely normal humans fighting with barely normal techniques & kunais.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Aug 11, 2012)

so how bout dat kyuubi?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 11, 2012)

Why do Tobito theorists jump on every chapter to claim 'Tobi is Obito' when the only thing confirmed is Tobi is using Obito's other eye? And just because he knows a lot about Kakashi doesn't mean he's Obito either, he's giving a Hannibal Lecture.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> "It's misdirection"
> 
> HAHAHAHA where were you guys when I was saying the same thing about Tobi being Madara?


I was hoping that one of the best reveals in the manga would not be misdirection. Kishi had other ideas I guess.

Still, he kept the mask on and that always leaves some doubt.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> Okay let me put it this way. I'm writing a manga. 300 some odd chapters in I introduce a character with a mask, his identity is a mystery. Slowly but surely he becomes very important to the point where his final villain status is all but deniable. However, his identity is still a mystery and the character who he said he is, is actually dead and was revived.
> 
> Now, as the story progresses, I make him fight with the main character and Kakashi. Half way through the fight, I FUCKING TELL YOU WHO THE CHARACTER IS BY SLAPPING IT IN YOUR FACE WITH A 2X4
> 
> ...


I don't consider it shit writing. But remember, GENERAL AUDIENCE. But I can kinda see where you're coming from.


----------



## Mist Puppet (Aug 11, 2012)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> so how bout dat kyuubi?



Kyuubi = Obito 

110% confirmed from spoilers.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

Why do people still think it's Izuna? That's denial if I ever saw it. 


Do you realize how anticlimactic Izuna would be?! 

Nobody there even knows Izuna. In fact, NOBODY would know who Izuna is other than Madara. If he was Izuna, the mask would come off and it would just be some random old Uchiha that nobody has heard of, other than Madara if he comes to the battlefield. The character _hasn't even been named in the manga_. 

Not to mention that Madara already said he was dead. 

Come on people.

Edit: And why do people think Kishi never does obvious things? Remember Pain's identity? It was so obvious it was Nagato that some people thought it would be someone different, but nope, it was Nagato. And Naruto's father - some people thought it was so obvious that Naruto's dad was the 4th that Kishi would do something different, but nope - the 4th Hokage was his father. 

Kishi has a record of this.


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Okay let  me put it this way. I'm writing a manga. 300 some odd chapters in I introduce a character with a mask, his identity is a mystery. Slowly but surely he becomes very important to the point where his final villain status is all but deniable. However, his identity is still a mystery and the character who he said he is, is actually dead and was revived.
> 
> Now, as the story progresses, I make him fight with the main character and Kakashi. Half way through the fight, I FUCKING TELL YOU WHO THE CHARACTER IS BY SLAPPING IT IN YOUR FACE WITH A 2X4
> 
> ...



Thats why some think it's not Obito because Kishi makes it so predictable that it can an just something unpredictable.I hope you understand what I mean


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> so how bout dat kyuubi?



He is going further and further away from what I would like him to be.


----------



## Mateush (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> ADD ME TO THE LIST
> I WANT YOU TOO
> 
> PUT MY NAME IN BOLD LETTERS AND SPARKLES



Here you go:

*Spoiler*: __ 



♠Ace♠


----------



## Wiseman Deathphantom (Aug 11, 2012)

It really doesn't matter if Tobi is Obito or not. If he is - basically it's not the same Obito as in the Gaiden, he has different mindset, abilities, body structure, etc.


----------



## daschysta (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> No actually, I'm referring to anyone with a 5th grade reading level. You don't slap something in someones face only for the biggest reveal of the manga to be the exact same thing you confirmed 2 chapters earlier.



Except he hasn't confirmed it, just implied it. To a younger child or preteen it very well may not be nearly as obvious. He hasn't confirmed it.

Narratively Obito would be much more interesting than someone with no real connection to any character, and who wasn't shown in the manga at all up to this point.

The bad writing would be purposely giving explicit hints, that make no sense in the context of the person being Izuna, only to pull Izuna out of his ass, the previous indications only existing to keep the "suprise".

A good writer is consistent in his plot, and it comes to a logical culmination, all signs have pointed to Obito for ages, the worse writing would be to make it anyone BUT Obito at this point, because then all of the hints and signals would have been simply meaningless fluff to build up to a cheap "suprise".

Also apparently the Obito theory hasn't been obvious for a long time, since the vast majority of people on the forum vehemently denied it's plausibility. Of course hints about his identity will be more frequent leading up to the unveiling, is a shallow suprise really that important to you?


----------



## Orochibuto (Aug 11, 2012)

The only thing I dislike about Obito is that if its him then he wont be FV


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 11, 2012)

> Tobi: ...Where, you ask? Hmph... I suppose if I have to say, it was during the previous war. At the battle of the Kannabi Bridge... The battle where you came to be known as the Sharingan Hero.
> 
> Kakashi: !! ...You're...
> 
> ...



I can't find Joker's "here..we..go" gif when I need it


----------



## Trojan (Aug 11, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Why do Tobito theorists jump on every chapter to claim 'Tobi is Obito' when the only thing confirmed is Tobi is using Obito's other eye? *And just because he knows a lot about Kakashi *doesn't mean he's Obito either, he's giving a Hannibal Lecture.



Maybe he uses something like this


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> No actually, I'm referring to anyone with a 5th grade reading level. You don't slap something in someones face only for the biggest reveal of the manga to be the exact same thing you confirmed 2 chapters earlier.



I hope you're right.


----------



## lucid1 (Aug 11, 2012)

hi i'm obito, I've done all these things I physically shouldn't have been able to do and I have motives which make no sense and don't fit my backstory. Of course it can't just be Obito's eye, it has to be Obito himself. HAS to be.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> yea if its tobito (which i don't believe) i'm removing that garbage tobi from my sig


Wow. You're willing to stop liking a character just because of his identity?

So, if his identity isn't what you want, you'll quit liking his character? It sounds like you only like the person you thought he was, not actually Tobi.

That's honestly really pathetic.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

We already have a list from the bet thread.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm not changing anything.

Fuck Obito.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 11, 2012)

All it is is Obito's eye. Until the mask comes off and we have an explanation on who it is, just stop.


----------



## Kusa (Aug 11, 2012)

daschysta said:


> Except he hasn't confirmed it, just implied it. To a younger child or preteen it very well may not be nearly as obvious. He hasn't confirmed it.
> 
> Narratively Obito would be much more interesting than someone with no real connection to any character, and who wasn't shown in the manga at all up to this point.
> 
> ...



No.A good writer is someone who can put suprises in his manga to make it exciting without making it seem like an asspull.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

Bare in mind, Not EVERYONE comes on boards and discusses every panel in great detail, and write and discuss theories. Some people likely buy jump, and read it every week, then put it down. And to this audience (Likely the audience Kishi thinks of most) Tobi being Obito will be more of a surprise than for us.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

By the way, how pathetic has the Kyuubi gotten?

Is that all it took to make him become Naruto's BFF?

Now he's sticking up for him!

Like Bee/Hachibi weren't enough already.


----------



## Mateush (Aug 11, 2012)

lucid1 said:


> hi i'm obito, I've done all these things I physically shouldn't have been able to do and I have motives which make no sense and don't fit my backstory. Of course it can't just be Obito's eye, it has to be Obito himself. HAS to be.



Dude, be ready to pay me 100 $ whenever you can afford it. I as well am ready, though you have to wait about 1 month since I already bought new stuff to my PC.


----------



## Leptirica (Aug 11, 2012)

Hey, it's always the one you suspect the least. This just smells like misdirecting, and if Kishi thinks kids are smart enough to understand and follow when Naruto misdirects his opponents, then he thinks they are smart enough to _be_ misdirected.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> The only thing I dislike about Obito is that if its him then he wont be FV



Yup, he'll be owned quickly,has his IRRELEVANT TO THE MAIN PLOT flashback, switch side, and be one paneled by Madara who got bored of the kages.

If he is Obito fighting because of Rin, his plot relevance (main plot = Rikudou and the feud between his children, not Kakashi failing to protect the girl Obito loved) is close to zero.

EDIT : wow, my post didn't make any bit of sense.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Lol, Tobito theorist have been beaten with a stick.

If you ignore all plot holes, common assumptions and just look at how freaking obvious and blatant Tobito really is.  Author is going to write his back story how he will even if current truths turn out to be lies or there unknown factors.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> Except he hasn't confirmed it, just implied it. To a younger child or  preteen it very well may not be nearly as obvious. He hasn't confirmed  it.


Again, tell that to the people here.
Until we get a backstory, nothing is confirmed.



> By the way, how pathetic has the Kyuubi gotten?
> 
> Is that all it took to make him become Naruto's BFF?
> 
> ...



My thoughts exactly
Kyuubi sucks






> If you ignore all plot holes, common assumptions and just look at how  freaking obvious and blatant Tobito really is.  Author is going to write  his back story how he will even if current truths turn out to be lies  or there unknown factors.



That's the difference between Tobito fans and the others. We COULDN'T ignore the plot holes. We just couldn't. I'm not convinced Kishimoto has lost all his integrity as a writer.


----------



## Yoko (Aug 11, 2012)

Assuming that the spoilers are correct, I think its kind of funny how quickly this went from being Kakashi centric to being "Naruto Will of Fire" centric.  Hell, I bet Naruto will probably land a hit on Tobi without any support now that he's all fired up again.  Sucks for us Kakashi and Gai fans, I guess.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

anti tobito theorist "tobi says he's madara so he's definitely madara"
tobi knows Kakashi personally and his pissed at him on a personal level - anti tobito theorists "tobi is definitely someone else, no way he'd make it this obvious"

I love the double standards here.


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

Well, I think everyone sort of thinks Obito is a definite possibility for Tobi's identity now.  But there's really no reason to be convinced that Tobi is Obito.  

Slamming the idea in your face with a 2x4 probably would involve using the word "Obito" once in manga in the past 8-years.


----------



## Octavian (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Wow. You're willing to stop liking a character just because of his identity?
> 
> So, if his identity isn't what you want, you'll quit liking his character? It sounds like you only like the person you thought he was, not actually Tobi.
> 
> That's honestly really pathetic.



actually what i liked about tobi was that he was enigmatic and knew things about the history of the world that very few people did...it gave the aura that he had experienced history not merely heard or read about it

moreover, there are a few glaring plotholes. for instance, during kyuubi's invasion of konoha, when tobi sharingan'ed the kyuubi, the kyuubi said " YOU!"
implying that he was familiar with tobi and/or his chakra. how would obito (at that age) have any relation to the kyuubi....


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> anti tobito theorist "tobi says he's madara so he's definitely madara"
> tobi knows Kakashi personally and his pissed at him on a personal level - anti tobito theorists "tobi is definitely someone else, no way he'd make it this obvious"
> 
> I love the double standards here.



I know right? Heh.


----------



## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Okay let  me put it this way. I'm writing a manga. 300 some odd chapters in I introduce a character with a mask, his identity is a mystery. Slowly but surely he becomes very important to the point where his final villain status is all but deniable. However, his identity is still a mystery and the character who he said he is, is actually dead and was revived.
> 
> Now, as the story progresses, I make him fight with the main character and Kakashi. Half way through the fight, I FUCKING TELL YOU WHO THE CHARACTER IS BY SLAPPING IT IN YOUR FACE WITH A 2X4
> 
> ...



Yeah I basically said the same thing a few hours ago, except this explains it better. If anything this chapter gave me *more *confidence that it's not Obito's real mind/spirit. What sense does it make to reveal his identity when the mask is still on? I don't think Kishi is THAT terrible of a writer.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Kobe said:


> He's a master manipulator



funny because obito was a known liar that manipulated info to make himself look good. lol


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> Some will have the dignity to admit that they were wrong, others will run away.



Once the backstory comes, if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to make the thread proclaiming that I was an idiot  for trusting that Kishimoto was a good writer


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Well, I think everyone sort of thinks Obito is a definite possibility for Tobi's identity now.  But there's really no reason to be convinced that Tobi is Obito.
> 
> Slamming the idea in your face with a 2x4 probably would involve using the word "Obito" once in manga in the past 8-years.



It's Kakashi's, "You're...," line that worries me.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Well, I think everyone sort of thinks Obito is a definite possibility for Tobi's identity now.  But there's really no reason to be convinced that Tobi is Obito.
> 
> Slamming the idea in your face with a 2x4 probably would involve using the word "Obito" once in manga in the past 8-years.



Technically Tobi isn't Obito. The spoiler said that where Tobi got the eye. Remember collects sharingan.


----------



## Majin Lu (Aug 11, 2012)

Reading the script, I think Tobi has Obito's eyes. Tobi is nobody, he "was" Madara, now it looks he "is" Obito... it is like he can be who he wishes to be... maybe an avatar?


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> You can be certain that you won't see much of them anymore.
> 
> Some will have the dignity to admit that they were wrong, others will run away.
> 
> ...



Klue isn't the type to hide in the face of absolute failure.

Bring it on.


----------



## Kobe (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> funny because obito was a known liar that manipulated info to make himself look good. lol



so.. are you saying Oda and Kishimoto write parallel stories ?!?!?!


Usopp : Sogeking :: Obito : Tobi


Why didn't I see this before !?!


----------



## narutoispoppin (Aug 11, 2012)

dont forget that madara is in cohoots with Tobi and they had a plan. This was shown when Madara first came back as an Edo.


----------



## lucid1 (Aug 11, 2012)

Mateush said:


> Dude, be ready to pay me 100 $ whenever you can afford it. I as well am ready, though you have to wait about 1 month since I already bought new stuff to my PC.



I have $100 on permanent standby so don't worry about not getting paid. Just worry about Tobi actually being Obito, hehe.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Well, I think everyone sort of thinks Obito is a definite possibility for Tobi's identity now.  But there's really no reason to be convinced that Tobi is Obito.
> 
> Slamming the idea in your face with a 2x4 probably would involve using the word "Obito" once in manga in the past 8-years.



except that it's hard to imagine tobi at this point who is attacking Kakashi on something so personal and poignant.  Not to mention to add kakashi's reaction to it like that.  Kishi has never made it hard to figure out his mysteries either with his love for parallels throughout his manga.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

Guys if I'm wrong, I'll just admit that I was dumb.
I've spent too much time raging about this anyways.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Kobe said:


> so.. are you saying Oda and Kishimoto write parallel stories ?!?!?!
> 
> 
> Usopp : Sogeking :: Obito : Tobi
> ...



if Sogeking went evil you'd have a point.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> Technically Tobi isn't Obito. The spoiler said that where Tobi got the eye. Remember collects sharingan.



This.

Spoiler is clear btw...


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

narutoispoppin said:


> dont forget that madara is in cohoots with Tobi and they had a plan. This was shown when Madara first came back as an Edo.



Guess he didn't die during, or right before, the Second Ninja War after all.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

SOGEKINGGGGGGGGUUUUUUUUUUU

EVEN ON YOUR HEART ~ LOOOOOOOCKKKKKKKKKK ONNNNNNNNNN


----------



## Kanki (Aug 11, 2012)

Does anyone actually have a rough idea of when the chapter will be out?


----------



## lathia (Aug 11, 2012)

Damn, just read those new translated spoilers. Whether it becomes true or not, I can't wait for Tobi's face to be revealed.


----------



## Kobe (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> if Sogeking went evil you'd have a point.



He did though. 





Poor bunnies


----------



## narutoispoppin (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Guess he didn't die during, or right before, the Second Ninja War after all.



Theres so many liess!! Just to cover up the story Kishi messed up smh!


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Guys if I'm wrong, I'll just admit that I was dumb.
> I've spent too much time raging about this anyways.



you're not dumb for it, it's not like you're saying tobi is Tsunade.  Heck i was wrong about Nagato for example and a ton of other theories.  To Tobito theorist you need to realize, that so many were treated badly for even entertaining the theory and often mocked for making threads concerning it, so there is some sort of bitterness and vindication associated with it becoming true.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> Does anyone actually have a rough idea of when the chapter will be out?



Tomorrow or Monday.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> Technically Tobi isn't Obito. The spoiler said that where Tobi got the eye. Remember collects sharingan.



Indeed.

Tobi clarifies the "where" not "when." But I find Kakashi's reaction interesting; he now knows who Tobi is, I think.

He had a similar reaction when Tobi blocked his attempt to use Kamui to warp Gedo Mazou's neck away.


----------



## The Wired (Aug 11, 2012)

Obito is shit. But is looks like kishimoto may indeed  be that stupid. So whatever. Lol
At least Orochimaru is back. ill cling to that in light of the likelyhood that tobi turns out to be the worst failure manga history.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> you're not dumb for it, it's not like you're saying tobi is Tsunade.   Heck i was wrong about Nagato for example and a ton of other theories.   To Tobito theorist you need to realize, that so many were treated badly  for even entertaining the theory and often mocked for making threads  concerning it, so there is some sort of bitterness and vindication  associated with it becoming true.



I've never made fun of Tobito fans. Just the theory.
Cause it sucks.


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Tobi clarifies the "where" not "when." But I find Kakashi's reaction interesting; he knows who Tobi is, I think.



I think he's thinking it's Obito. But in the end I think even he will be surprised to see who it really is. It needs to be shocking for everyone.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Guess he didn't die during, or right before, the Second Ninja War after all.



It has been said before but if TObi is Obito, Madara was still alive during Kakashi Gaiden since he would have picked an agonizing Obito to turn him into a Zetsu-powered Tobi.
Well, it confirms there are two Tobis, one with long hair who controlled Yagura and met Itachi and who is most likely Madara himself while the short haired one is his pawn Obito.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> Technically Tobi isn't Obito. The spoiler said that where Tobi got the eye. Remember collects sharingan.



There is no reason for anyone else to know about the mission. No reason for Tobi to get angsty with Kakashi.  

NO other suspect as much for and as much clouding it could be him.   The fact that there is lot of hints it's Obito and lots of misdirection that it cant' be solidify IMO it's Obito.  Kish isn't a great mystery writer and the fact that he tries to misdirect to create doubt with Obito but at the same time give all the hints that it is Obito shines the light in his direction.  

You think after all this time if Tobi was going to be someone else that he'd have hints.  No fans it's a dead Uchiha I'm going to fan fiction him as Tobi.  I mean real evidence.  And have things that make you doubt it's him.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

narutoispoppin said:


> Theres so many liess!! Just to cover up the story Kishi messed up smh!



This could mean that Nagato "awakened" the Rinnegan before Madara; even if it were still Madara's eyes to begin with. Madara might have awakened the Rinnegan much later, with a different pair of eyes. But wouldn't that signify or suggest that Nagato is the Second Six Paths?

I know don't what to make of it, honestly.


----------



## narutoispoppin (Aug 11, 2012)

Theres too much FV. Secondly, the story would make better sense if it was Izuna, but I do like Obito and hes the most badass character behind Minato


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

JuubiSage said:


> I think he's thinking it's Obito. But in the end I think even he will be surprised to see who it really is. It needs to be shocking for everyone.



Trust me, I hope you're right, lol.


----------



## Mateush (Aug 11, 2012)

Kakashi Is God said:


> Thanks.



Though usually after spoilers were posted so the scans usually comes after a few hours. We may get it today or not, but I think we will read it at least tomorrow.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Sort of our virtual version of "chain of hatred". The Tobito theorists were treated poorly, so some of them will undoubtedly retaliate. Those on the receiving end might get the opportunity to get back on some other theories. Human behaviour particularly in groups is interesting but predictable.

Back to the story, Obito was supposed to be a "good" Uchiha; it seems that specie got even rarer.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue, Piika must be mad right now.
I'm gonna send her spoilers.


----------



## k2nice (Aug 11, 2012)

Can we atleast get some pics


----------



## lathia (Aug 11, 2012)

Watch Tobi be the "dark naruto" of the Road to Ninja movie. Sharingan implants and all.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Tobi clarifies the "where" not "when." But I find Kakashi's reaction interesting; he now knows who Tobi is, I think.
> 
> He had a similar reaction when Tobi blocked his attempt to use Kamui to warp Gedo Mazou's neck away.



Kakashi is probably surprised because he probably has Obito's eye.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

AceBizzle said:


> So to you, there is no such thing as plotholes?



Most of the people talking about plot holes don't even seem to know what the heck a plot hole really is. This is a weekly story, told on a weekly basis. The story isn't finished being told until the author finishes it. You can't with any bit of serious accuracy talk about time related plot holes well before the author has even finished telling his story when so much is left open to interpretation. People are making assumptions about what transpired, but the reality is that they do not know for sure. If they did, they would be Masashi Kishimoto as opposed to who they actually are.

I think we've all seen proof of the fact for some time now that Tobi's body isn't normal by any stroke of the imagination. We've seen extraordinarily powerful shinobi in this manga also turn out to be extremely young. We don't fully know what's going on until Kishi decides to explain it more thoroughly. It's really as simple as that. Did people look at Kakashi's height during the flashback to the Kyuubi attack on Konoha? Why is it impossible that Obito could have grown in a similar fashion, possibly ending up slightly taller than even Kakashi himself?

Do people actually know how long after the Third Great Ninja War the Kyuubi attack on Konoha took place? I don't think anybody really does. How did Kishi introduce us to the events of the Third Great Ninja War? All he said was "More than 10 years ago," which can just as easily mean anywhere between 16 or 19 years ago. Kishimoto, last I checked, gave himself the necessary wiggle room for when exactly those events took place. 

More than 10 years ago doesn't have to mean exactly 11 years ago, it doesn't even have to mean 12, 13 or 14 years ago. It just means exactly what it says, more than 10 years ago. Kishi didn't specify.

Many people have speculated based on Kishi saying "more than 10 years ago" that because Kakashi is estimated to be 26-27 years old in part 1, and the Kyuubi attack happened basically 13 years before the events of part 1, that Kakashi had to have been 13-14 years old during the Kyuubi attack, which is more or less accurate. However, where the flaw really comes in with some people, is that they assume the events that we saw from the Third Great Ninja War absolutely had to have taken place when Kakashi was 12-13.

What do people seem to base this on? Obito died at 13, and they were on the same team, so Kakashi must have been the same exact age as Obito? I don't know about that one. 

*Obito became a Genin at Age 9.
Obito became a Chuunin at Age 11.*

*Kakashi became a Genin at age 5 (yes 5).
Kakashi became a Chuunin exactly one year after that at age 6.*

Knowing that these are the facts, that Kakashi had been advancing quicker up the shinobi ranks than Obito was, accomplishing everything at a much  earlier age, why exactly would people just up and assume that Kakashi's progression had slowed so much that it took him 7 years after he became a chuunin to became a jonin? Why did Kakashi need to be 13 years old as of the Kakashi Gaiden? Because Obito was 13? That kind of thinking is so flawed.

If Kakashi's progression continued to be at a notably more impressive rate than Obito's, then it's possible Kakashi continued to be 4 years quicker at everything than Obito was. *Kakashi became a Genin 4 years quicker than it took Rin and Obito to become Genin. Kakashi became a Chuunin 4 years quicker than it took Rin and Obito to become Genin. Going by the trend, I'd say If Obito was 13, it's possible Kakashi was a mere 9 years old when he became a Jonin, 4 years younger than a 13 year old Chuunin Obito.*

Meaning what exactly?

Let's do the math.

If the Kyuubi attack happened when Kakashi was 13-14 years old, 13 years before the events of part one where Kakashi is 26-27 years of age, and kakashi was a 9 year old Jonin, *it means the events in the Kakashi Gaiden took place more or less 17-18 years before the events of part one, meaning the Kyuubi attack would have had to have taken place 4-5 years after the Kakashi Gaiden.*

Some think Minato was Hokage for just one year or something, when in reality, he could have been Hokage for something much closer to 2-5 years.

*And finally, if the events of the Kakashi Gaiden took place 4-5 years before the Kyuubi attack, it means that Obito, if he's Tobi, could have been anywhere from 17-18 years of age by the time he fought against Minato. We already clearly see how tall Characters such as Naruto and Sasuke are already at their age, so Obito being as tall as Minato or close to it isn't entirely unrealistic at the age of 17-18. *


----------



## Arles Celes (Aug 11, 2012)

JuubiSage said:


> I think he's thinking it's Obito. But in the end I think even he will be surprised to see who it really is. It needs to be shocking for everyone.



But how Kakashi would be surprised if Tobi was actually Izuna or Kagami?

He doesn't know either of them. Does either of them have some particular bond with any of the living and plot relevant characters?

Would the readers be truly amazed if it was one of them or a Madara clone with an identity crisis? Or Shisui?

It has been dragged way too long and most readers wont be amazed regardless of who Tobi is. If he is someone TOTALLY unexpected everyone will just say "asspull". Its as simple as that.


----------



## narutoispoppin (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> This could mean that Nagato "awakened" the Rinnegan before Madara; even if it were still Madara's eyes to begin with. Madara might have awakened the Rinnegan much later, with a different pair of eyes. But wouldn't that signify or suggest that Nagato is the Second Six Paths?
> 
> I know don't what to make of it, honestly.



Theres really no way to tell. Tobi filled the story with too much lies to verify anything. The only thing that is proven to be true is what Itachi concluded. Everything else is up in the air.


----------



## GoDMasteR (Aug 11, 2012)

:hoso tobi's a stalker uh?


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Lol I think the shock is going to come with the fucked up things that happend to Obito to turn him to Tobi.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Klue, Piika must be mad right now.
> I'm gonna send her spoilers.



Lol, hahahaha - do it.

I'd imagine Pika will first feel relieved, followed by a jab of annoyance, after reading Geg's spoiler.

I too hope Kakashi's guess isn't the obvious. 

Know what? I'm only rooting against Tobi=Obito because I have debated it so strongly as of late. Beyond that, I could really care less.

I wonder if Kishi can really hold back two more chapters. I hope Tobi's mask cracks completely in chapter 598, so we can finally learn his identity in chapter 599.

Juubi in 600.


----------



## The Wired (Aug 11, 2012)

Also, Nic is right about how badly the Tobi theorists have been done. I have said terrible things to them going vack as far as i can remember. Its only natural that they want to flaunt it. 

However, i still think it is stupid as shit. Obito being tobi is about the most annoying thing that could have pissibly happned.


----------



## Datakim (Aug 11, 2012)

I dunno. I think it would be somewhat disappointing to me if it really was Obito. I guess I was hoping for something more significant than that.

Sure, it would probably set the forums ablaze for a few weeks which might be somewhat amusing, and it would cause BSOD for Kakashi, but beyond that? What? I don't know.

I mean why would Obito do all this? Because Rin, who was in a very dangerous profession during wartime died? A girl had a crush on and never even had the courage to say so. And because of this, Obito decided to brainwash the entire world? Could there be anything more pathetic? His mysterious motives would suddenly become basically emo!bullshit, and Tobi himself would lose all the renown he has gathered (in my eyes anyway). And if its not Rin, then why bother with Obito in the first place? Rin is the only thing that Obito has going for him, considering how briefly we saw him.

Not to mention all the annoyhing plotholes that would have to be explained, many of which have already been pointed out in this thread, making it even worse.

I for one was rather hoping for something truly _HUGE_ from Tobi, that would shake things a lot, considering how long Tobi has been a part of the series and all he has done. Maybe one of the sages children with accompanying flashbacks to the very start of the whole Uchiha vs Senju struggle and even to Sot6P. Heck, even Izuna would have been more interesting. For it to be Obito would just feel like a major letdown to me after all this time. Obito is simply not interesting enough to qualify, IMHO. Am I the onlyone who would feel this way? Or have I just been spoiled by all the speculation and have my expectations of Kishi too high? Meh.

Ohwell, I guess there is still hope that Tobi just stole Obitos eye and no more.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

For those who keep on saying that Tobi only has Obito's eye.

Kishimoto would never make Kakashi laugh hysterically or breath heavily and make him think of Obito if it wasn't infact Obito.

Kakashi will lose his mind and become a little retarded. It'll leave a permanant mark and he won't be able to fight anymore.

24/7 in bed.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> It really doesn't matter if Tobi is Obito or not. If he is - basically it's not the same Obito as in the Gaiden, he has different mindset, abilities, body structure, etc.


No, it still is the same Obito as in Gaiden. No matter what changes he goes through, he's still the same person. Stop being so in denial.


----------



## Coldhands (Aug 11, 2012)

lathia said:


> Watch Tobi be the "dark naruto" of the Road to Ninja movie. Sharingan implants and all.



Tobi takes control over Menma (AU Naruto) in the movie so...


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

You guys are acting like the argument about Obito's age and height is even relevant. I've said over and over, the plot holes aren't because of what happened during the fight with Minato. I'm talking about the other inconsistencies. If you want a list go ahead and ask.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

JuubiSage said:


> I think he's thinking it's Obito. But in the end I think even he will be surprised to see who it really is. It needs to be shocking for everyone.



What would shock me to death would be tobi being obito (not having his eye).

Kishi should find a very very very strong excuse to make the troll plot acceptable...


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

The Wired said:


> Also, Nic is right about how badly the Tobi theorists have been done. I have said terrible things to them going vack as far as i can remember. Its only natural that they want to flaunt it.
> 
> However, i still think it is stupid as shit. Obito being tobi is about the most annoying thing that could have pissibly happned.



what can I say, i like it.


----------



## narutoispoppin (Aug 11, 2012)

Melas said:


> Sort of our virtual version of "chain of hatred". The Tobito theorists were treated poorly, so some of them will undoubtedly retaliate. Those on the receiving end might get the opportunity to get back on some other theories. Human behaviour particularly in groups is interesting but predictable.
> 
> Back to the story, Obito was supposed to be a "good" Uchiha; it seems that specie got even rarer.



I simply want to know, *which assholes who were bashing the Tobito theories have switched sides and didnt acknowledge being wrong, twisting their words to say they "never said it coundt be obitos eyes."*

Point em out.


----------



## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

The Wired said:


> Also, Nic is right about how badly the Tobi theorists have been done. I have said terrible things to them going vack as far as i can remember. Its only natural that they want to flaunt it.
> 
> However, i still think it is stupid as shit. Obito being tobi is about the most annoying thing that could have pissibly happned.



Their flaunting will be crushed soon enough. Unless Kishi actually was dumb enough to reveal his identity before the mask comes off.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> There is no reason for anyone else to know about the mission. No reason for Tobi to get angsty with Kakashi.
> 
> NO other suspect as much for and as much clouding it could be him.   The fact that there is lot of hints it's Obito and lots of misdirection that it cant' be solidify IMO it's Obito.  Kish isn't a great mystery writer and the fact that he tries to misdirect to create doubt with Obito but at the same time give all the hints that it is Obito shines the light in his direction.
> 
> You think after all this time if Tobi was going to be someone else that he'd have hints.  No fans it's a dead Uchiha I'm going to fan fiction him as Tobi.  I mean real evidence.  And have things that make you doubt it's him.



Then would like to explain why Tobi knows Madara and Kishi even said that they both have a connection? Madara was dead by the time Minato and them went on the mission.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi is not Obito, Obito is Tobi.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> Tobi is not Obito, Obito is Tobi.



Touche


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Lol, hahahaha - do it.
> 
> I'd imagine Pika will first feel relieved, followed by a jab of annoyance, after reading Geg's spoiler.
> 
> I too hope Kakashi's guess isn't the obvious.



yeah i'm sure he'd be suffocating so badly if it was Izuna.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

Nics a girl.
Don't listen to him.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Tobi is not Obito, Obito is Tobi.



Well played Sir.


----------



## Orochibuto (Aug 11, 2012)

It isnt confirmed to be Obito, but the interesting thing is that now the anti-Obito are on the position they put Obuto theorists back some years ago and the position Obito theorists were back then.

That is being the ones debating against the evidence and with very little evidence.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

insane111 said:


> Their flaunting will be crushed soon enough. Unless Kishi actually was dumb enough to reveal his identity before the mask comes off.



I don't recall him ever directly revealing it.


----------



## Penance (Aug 11, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> I can't find Joker's "here..we..go" gif when I need it



Close enough... [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLlZh9yelk[/YOUTUBE]



First Tsurugi said:


> "It's misdirection"
> 
> HAHAHAHA where were you guys when I was saying the same thing about Tobi being Madara?



TRUTH ALERT



Raventhal said:


> Lol you have to remember the average reader isn't collaborating and ripping apart every panel and line in the manga.  They're more likely to be shocked than us.  Hell half you can't believe it's Obito now lol.



Mischief Managed... 



Raventhal said:


> Lol, Tobi has been kind of obvious from the beginning but it was too obvious for anyone to think the author would go that route but then agian this isn't Scooby Doo or is it?







bloodplzkthxlol said:


> so how bout dat kyuubi?








Sutol said:


> By the way, how pathetic has the Kyuubi gotten?
> 
> Is that all it took to make him become Naruto's BFF?
> 
> ...



Should've happened sooner...



Sutol said:


> You can be certain that you won't see much of them anymore.
> 
> Some will have the dignity to admit that they were wrong, others will run away.
> 
> ...



Soon...



Nic said:


> you're not dumb for it, it's not like you're saying tobi is Tsunade.  Heck i was wrong about Nagato for example and a ton of other theories.  To Tobito theorist you need to realize, that so many were treated badly for even entertaining the theory and often mocked for making threads concerning it, so there is some sort of bitterness and vindication associated with it becoming true.



Our justice is nigh...



Ginko25 said:


> It has been said before but if TObi is Obito, *Madara was still alive during Kakashi Gaiden* since he would have picked an agonizing Obito to turn him into a Zetsu-powered Tobi.
> Well, it confirms there are two Tobis, one with long hair who controlled Yagura and met Itachi and who is most likely Madara himself while the short haired one is his pawn Obito.



All you need is for Zetsu to be alive at that time-which he was, so...


----------



## Arles Celes (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Lol, hahahaha - do it.
> 
> I'd imagine Pika will first feel relieved, followed by a jab of annoyance, after reading Geg's spoiler.
> 
> ...



At this point is there anyone whom you would wish Tobi to be?

Most readers are already tired of overanalyzing Tobi's identity for so many years and just wnat him to be a character they like or consider interesting for the role of Tobi.


----------



## Raiden (Aug 11, 2012)

Kakashi about to have a panic attack !


----------



## Rikudou (Aug 11, 2012)

This can't be. Obito was the same age as kakashi, 29/30. Naruto was born 16 years ago, when both kakashi and Obito would be 13/14y old. The person fighting Minato was however DEFINITELY an adult, qho planned the attack many years before.

How can it be Obito, seriously?


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

The most compelling evidence to Obito being Tobi?
Both Kakashi and Naruto hyperventilate over their Uchiha buddies. 


> This can't be. Obito was the same age as kakashi, 29/30. Naruto was born  16 years ago, when both kakashi and Obito would be 13/14y old. The  person fighting Minato was however DEFINITELY an adult, qho planned the  attack many years before.


This is a dumb argument though. They are all insanely short.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> Knowing that these are the facts, that Kakashi had been advancing quicker up the shinobi ranks than Obito was, accomplishing everything at a much  earlier age, why exactly would people just up and assume that Kakashi's progression had slowed so much that it took him 7 years after he became a chuunin to became a jonin? Why did Kakashi need to be 13 years old as of the Kakashi Gaiden? Because Obito was 13? That kind of thinking is so flawed.



Except KG was his first mission as a jounin, hence he became jounin at 13


----------



## TobiSamoht (Aug 11, 2012)

When is the chapter coming out??


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> Then would like to explain why Tobi knows Madara and Kishi even said that they both have a connection? Madara was dead by the time Minato and them went on the mission.



Obviously Madara wasn't dead.


----------



## narutoispoppin (Aug 11, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> Most of the people talking about plot holes don't even seem to know what the heck a plot hole really is. This is a weekly story, told on a weekly basis. The story isn't finished being told until the author finishes it. You can't with any bit of serious accuracy talk about time related plot holes well before the author has even finished telling his story when so much is left open to interpretation. People are making assumptions about what transpired, but the reality is that they do not know for sure. If they did, they would be Masashi Kishimoto as opposed to who they actually are.
> 
> I think we've all seen proof of the fact for some time now that Tobi's body isn't normal by any stroke of the imagination. We've seen extraordinarily powerful shinobi in this manga also turn out to be extremely young. We don't fully know what's going on until Kishi decides to explain it more thoroughly. It's really as simple as that. Did people look at Kakashi's height during the flashback to the Kyuubi attack on Konoha? Why is it impossible that Obito could have grown in a similar fashion, possibly ending up slightly taller than even Kakashi himself?
> 
> ...



Hmm very interesting analysis. Only problem is their is no proof to Kakashi being 9 yr old when he was a jonin. That would definitely seal the deal.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

Raiden said:


> Kakashi about to have a panic attack !



His reaction in the upcoming chapters will certainly be interesting.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> The most compelling evidence to Obito being Tobi?
> Both Kakashi and Naruto hyperventilate over their Uchiha buddies.
> 
> 
> This is a dumb argument though. They are all insanely short.



Kakashi isn't crying yet.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> The most compelling evidence to Obito being Tobi?
> Both Kakashi and Naruto hyperventilate over their Uchiha buddies.
> This is a dumb argument though. They are all insanely short.



Uchiha just have that effect on people.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Arles Celes said:


> At this point is there anyone whom you would wish Tobi to be?
> 
> Most readers are already tired of overanalyzing Tobi's identity for so many years and just wnat him to be a character they like or consider interesting for the role of Tobi.



Obito provides the biggest emotional impact for both the characters involved and the reader. From that perspective, I think the manga would benefit more if Tobi is Obito.

I can't think of any particular character, I would honestly give two shits about, personally.

What I'm looking forward to, right now, is the revelation itself, and not necessarily what it would mean, moving forward. And I believe a large number of posters feel the same.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Well, it confirms there are two Tobis, one with long hair who controlled Yagura and met Itachi and who is most likely Madara himself while the short haired one is his pawn Obito.


loool3 has theorized that for a while and even Tobito fans think it is crap. I always thought there was something strange though. I mean, why change hair length for the same character so often? All that does is confuse people... but if there's actually two masked guys, well, it starts to make sense.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Penance said:


> All you need is for Zetsu to be alive at that time-which he was, so...



No you need Madara, who knew who Tobi is.


----------



## Cymbalize (Aug 11, 2012)

I just want to see how kishi get's away with this devilry.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Rikudou said:


> This can't be. Obito was the same age as kakashi, 29/30. Naruto was born 16 years ago, when both kakashi and Obito would be 13/14y old. The person fighting Minato was however DEFINITELY an adult, qho planned the attack many years before.
> 
> How can it be Obito, seriously?



Lol, Itachi was 13 and big as hell and owned Oro with a glance and killed his whole clan.


----------



## Menacing Eyes (Aug 11, 2012)

I just read Geg's translation. So Tobi does have Obito's eye eh? 

All the odds are against me. But I'm not going to admit defeat 'till the end, when Tobi's mask is off and he confirms his identity. 

If this manga has taught me anything it's to never give up.


----------



## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> I don't recall him ever directly revealing it.



But it did directly reveal that it's his eye, so based on that it's incredibly stupid if it actually does turn out to be him. Seems like an obvious ploy to trick readers to me.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

narutoispoppin said:


> I simply want to know, *which assholes who were bashing the Tobito theories have switched sides and didnt acknowledge being wrong, twisting their words to say they "never said it coundt be obitos eyes."*
> 
> Point em out.



Are you quoting someone in the bold part, if yes better ask them to point out.

I have little interest in Tobi's identity beyond it being another weak-willed Uchiha and another villain with a presumably dubious sob-story.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> Once the backstory comes, if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to make the thread proclaiming that I was an idiot


Well, it's nice to hear that you'da ctually apologize instead of bitching about it like most would. 





> for trusting that Kishimoto was a good writer






			
				The Wired(Generic Hater) said:
			
		

> Also, Nic is right about how badly the Tobi theorists have been done. I have said terrible things to them going vack as far as i can remember. Its only natural that they want to flaunt it.
> 
> However, i still think it is stupid as shit. Obito being tobi is about the most annoying thing that could have pissibly happned.


Lol. You really need to see the core themes of this manga and that Obito represents them perfectly. IMHO, anyone besides Obito would most likely be bad writing.


----------



## Ryan (Aug 11, 2012)

Nagato already had the Rinnegan, during the third ninja war, remember he and his friends fought Hanzou and Danzou at the time. Obito was alive, or just died, at that point. Tobi is the only person who knew Nagato and he was the one who offered him the eyes, years ago before the war even started. 

Yagura, the fourth Mizukage, was also the kage when Zabuza was just a little kid (who is the same age as Kakashi), in the academy -his era known as the bloody mist at that time. Guess who was supposedly controlling him? Tobi. 

That just doesn't add up at all. Tobi can't be Obito.


----------



## dream (Aug 11, 2012)

Menacing Eyes said:


> I just read Geg's translation. So Tobi does have Obito's eye eh?



Everything points to that.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Menacing Eyes said:


> I just read Geg's translation. So Tobi does have Obito's eye eh?
> 
> All the odds are against me. But I'm not going to admit defeat 'till the end, when Tobi's mask is off and he confirms his identity.
> 
> *If this manga has taught me anything it's to never give up. *



  

We're in the same boat. :rofl


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Rikudou said:


> This can't be. Obito was the same age as kakashi, 29/30. Naruto was born 16 years ago, when both kakashi and Obito would be 13/14y old. The person fighting Minato was however DEFINITELY an adult, qho planned the attack many years before.
> 
> How can it be Obito, seriously?



actually we don't even know kakashi's age relative to Obitos.  Obito could have been a coupe years older. 

2. Kamui's dimension could have time flowing faster than in the real world

3.  it's an artistic ignorance the same way 11 year old itachi looked as tall as oro or 13 year old itachi looked as tall as kisame.


----------



## Harbour (Aug 11, 2012)

Looks like Tobi can easily change own personality.
Happy dumb person (wih Akatsuki and Konoha)
Evil "Madara" person (with Kages and Naruto)
Carefull good grandfather person (with Sasuke)
Now "Obito"-like person (with Kakashi)
And he show us the strange knowledges about Madara life. As well as Hashirama's, Rikudo's and so on. Now he demontrate the knowledges about the event on the C Bridge and Kakashi's personal life.
How the hell he know everything personal? Or he has a fucking's-Freyd-level of psychoanalyse?


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

narutoispoppin said:


> Hmm very interesting analysis. Only problem is their is no proof to Kakashi being 9 yr old when he was a jonin. That would definitely seal the deal.



There is proof he wasn't.
He became a jounin during KG. He received a Hiraishin kunai and a bag of medical supplies as congratulation gifts from Minato and Rin for his promotion to jounin.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

Ryan. You are right.
Just wait a bit.

Our time will come.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> loool3 has theorized that for a while and even Tobito fans think it is crap. I always thought there was something strange though. I mean, why change hair length for the same character so often? All that does is confuse people... but if there's actually two masked guys, well, it starts to make sense.



I think the long hair was to pose as Madara.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Ryan said:


> Nagato already had the Rinnegan, during the third ninja war, remember he and his friends fought Hanzou and Danzou at the time. Obito was alive, or just died, at that point. Tobi is the only person who knew Nagato and he was the one who offered him the eyes, years ago before the war even started.
> 
> Yagura, the fourth Mizukage, was also the kage when Zabuza was just a little kid (who is the same age as Kakashi), in the academy - so, same timeline, relatively close. Guess who was supposedly controlling him? Tobi.
> 
> That just doesn't add up at all. Tobi can't be Obito.



you mean the real madara that tobi was impersonating gave Nagato those eyes?


----------



## Saizo sarutobi (Aug 11, 2012)

Rikudou said:


> This can't be. Obito was the same age as kakashi, 29/30. Naruto was born 16 years ago, when both kakashi and Obito would be 13/14y old. The person fighting Minato was however DEFINITELY an adult, qho planned the attack many years before.
> 
> How can it be Obito, seriously?



Time travel.Obito in his near death,time traveled to past,where madara found him treated him and trained him.thats why he was adult when fighting Minato.


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

LMAO, epic pic



Sutol said:


> Divin it's been so long.
> 
> Even the weakest of Uchiha > Minato.
> 
> It's canon now.



don't fan the flames.  besides Tobi (obito or not) did get his ass kicked by Minato.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> I think the long hair was to pose as Madara.



First appearance of the long haired Tobi is went Kisame went rogue and it's likely before Obito died. (Kisame is supposed to be slighty older than Kakashi)


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Lol, Itachi was 13 and big as hell and owned Oro with a glance and killed his whole clan.



With the help of Tobi.



Raventhal said:


> Obviously Madara wasn't dead.



Madara said he died shortly after Hashirama's battle with him.
Like I said before Tobi is NOT Obito. There are so many arguments that counter that stupid theory.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Saizo sarutobi said:


> Time travel.Obito in his near death,time traveled to past,where madara found him treated him and trained him.thats why he was adult when fighting Minato.



16 years ago, hiruzen was 55 so madara would have been in his 70s.  It shouldn't be that hard to believe that he could have still been alive.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> actually we don't even know kakashi's age relative to Obitos.  Obito could have been a coupe years older.
> 
> 2. Kamui's dimension could have time flowing faster than in the real world
> 
> 3.  it's an artistic ignorance the same way 11 year old itachi looked as tall as oro or 13 year old itachi looked as tall as kisame.



We know how old Obito was at time of death.
We know how old Kakashi is now, relative to Naruto and the time of the 9 Tails attack.

I think we're being lead to believe that they were the same age during KG.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Ryan said:


> Nagato already had the Rinnegan, during the third ninja war, remember he and his friends fought Hanzou and Danzou at the time. Obito was alive, or just died, at that point. Tobi is the only person who knew Nagato and he was the one who offered him the eyes, years ago before the war even started.
> 
> Yagura, the fourth Mizukage, was also the kage when Zabuza was just a little kid (who is the same age as Kakashi), in the academy - so, same timeline, relatively close. Guess who was supposedly controlling him? Tobi.
> 
> That just doesn't add up at all. Tobi can't be Obito.



Obviously Nagato's flash back panel we discard on the words of Tobi was true and Tobi was a liar.

Obviously connections to Madara means Madara was alive and Obito took his place when he died or sometime before he died.  

All masked man sightings are after Obito was crushed.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Ryan said:


> Nagato already had the Rinnegan, during the third ninja war, remember he and his friends fought Hanzou and Danzou at the time. Obito was alive, or just died, at that point. Tobi is the only person who knew Nagato and he was the one who offered him the eyes, years ago before the war even started.
> 
> Yagura, the fourth Mizukage, was also the kage when Zabuza was just a little kid (who is the same age as Kakashi), in the academy -his era known as the bloody mist at that time. Guess who was supposedly controlling him? Tobi.
> 
> That just doesn't add up at all. Tobi can't be Obito.



This too...

obvious facts are obvious...


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

MY TIME WILL COME
DO NOT WORRY, I WILL NOT GLOAT

I AM A MERCIFUL OVERLORD


----------



## Ryan (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> you mean the real madara that tobi was impersonating gave Nagato those eyes?


Yet Nagato received his orders from Tobi, willingly. Tobi also said he is the one who gave him the eyes, not Madara.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> We know how old Obito was at time of death.
> We know how old Kakashi is now, relative to Naruto and the time of the 9 Tails attack.
> 
> I think we're being lead to believe that they were the same age during KG.



and even if they were which there's no proof it doesn't eliminate possibility two or three.


----------



## Arles Celes (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Obito provides the biggest emotional impact for both the characters involved and the reader. From that perspective, I think the manga would benefit more if Tobi is Obito.
> 
> I can't think of any particular character, I would honestly give two shits about, personally.
> 
> What I'm looking forward to, right now, is the revelation itself, and not necessarily what it would mean, moving forward. And I believe a large number of posters feel the same.



I guess that the biggest problem people have with Tobi(aside the inconsistecies) is the fact that Obito isn't epic enough to be a main villain.

They would prefer if Tobi was either some new character with an epic background or some legendary figure like the Elder Brother.

Tobi just doesn't sound all that amazing.

That said Obito is in fact the only character at this point who can get some real emotional response from both the characters in the manga AND the readers.

If he is Izuna, Shisui, or Kagami readers will be just, "ok" while the characters will be "is that so?". Neither of the MCs cares about those guys and there is no bond between them.

Kishi being a bit obvious now with his identity may be an red herring but then again he was quite obvious in the past with stuff like foreshadowing Asuma's AND Jiraiya's death REALLY hard or revealing through Konan that Pain was Nagato even before we saw how Nagato looked like at that time.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> With the help of Tobi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But it was previously accepted that Itachi killed his clan at 13 and it wasn't far fetched.

Show me the panel where it says Madara died shortly after his battle?  There isn't one.  

Madara says he died shortly after awakening his Rinnegan and there is no timeline on when that happened.  If Obito = Tobi it's impossible for Nagato's eyes to be Madara's Rinnegan.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Ryan said:


> Yet Nagato received his orders from Tobi, willingly. Tobi also said he is the one who gave him the eyes, not Madara.



what?  He talked to Konan the whole time as being Madara.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic, if Tobi didn't give Nagato his eyes, why did he say "they were mine to begin with" to Kabuto?
Of course, if he's Izuna, then technically Madara's eyes are his


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> and even if they were which there's no proof it doesn't eliminate possibility two or three.



At least it eliminates your first point.


----------



## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> First appearance of the long haired Tobi is went Kisame went rogue and it's likely before Obito died. (Kisame is supposed to be slighty older than Kakashi)



Kisame also recognized the current Tobi as being the one who controlled Yagura.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Except KG was his first mission as a jounin, hence he became jounin at 13



But where is the proof Kakashi was 13 when he became a Jonin, other than people assuming he was 13 on naruto wiki sites and fan sites? What official documentation, manga, databook, fanbook or otherwise is there to back this claim up?


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Obviously Nagato's flash back panel we discard on the words of Tobi was true and Tobi was a liar.



How can you discard that ? It's Jiraiya's flashbacks for fuck sake

Nagato had Rinnegan at the end of the 2nd Word War, hence before Tobi was born. (heck, at this point, we could even have Madara giving Obito his sharingan before Tobi stole it back after his death. The parallel with Nagato would be complete)


----------



## The Wired (Aug 11, 2012)

At least kishimoto was smart enough to bring Orochimaru back before he ruined Tobi. 

Kishi:I have fucked tobi's character up six ways from tuesday. What should I do? Ahh ill bring orochimaru back and then fodderize tobi.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> what?  He talked to Konan the whole time as being Madara.



He also talked to Kabuto like he was Madara even after Kabuto showed him Madara's body.


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Again, this is my biggest gripe with the theory. He was controlling Yagura with long hair, showed his face to Kisame and Kisame trusted him. 15+ years later he showed him the same face and Kisame recognized him as the same guy.
> 
> Obito was too young to be controlling Yagura at that point.
> At this point I'm thinking he switched bodies.



It only works if Madara himself was alive up until least 10 months before the kyubi attack, then Tobito now following in Madara's footsteps took over, but then Madara wouldn't have awakened the rinnegan before Nagato but vice versa.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Arles Celes said:


> I guess that the biggest problem people have with Tobi(aside the inconsistecies) is the fact that Obito isn't epic enough to be a main villain.
> 
> They would prefer if Tobi was either some new character with an epic background or some legendary figure like the Elder Brother.
> 
> ...



Damn, so true.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Nic, if Tobi didn't give Nagato his eyes, why did he say "they were mine to begin with" to Kabuto?
> Of course, if he's Izuna, then technically Madara's eyes are his



because he's impersonating Madara. this is coming from the same guy that said I, madara gave Nagato those eyes.


----------



## Ryan (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> First appearance of the long haired Tobi is went Kisame went rogue and it's likely before Obito died. (Kisame is supposed to be slighty older than Kakashi)


Pretty much.


----------



## Saizo sarutobi (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> 16 years ago, hiruzen was 55 so madara would have been in his 70s.  It shouldn't be that hard to believe that he could have still been alive.


Considiring Madara statment about dying when Nagato was a child...and Kishimoto statment that Madara and Tobi know eachother,I really think this could be true,witch means Obito REALLY was Tobi all this time.horray


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi was the previous Mizukage.

How could Obito have been Mizukage without entirely fucking up the timeline?


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Nic, if Tobi didn't give Nagato his eyes, why did he say "they were mine to begin with" to Kabuto?
> Of course, if he's Izuna, then technically Madara's eyes are his



He told Konan.  He lied.  Same reason he told Kabuto he fought Hashirama two seconds after he was outed as not being Madara.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> because he's impersonating Madara.



Even after Kabuto knows he isn't Madara?
His Hashirama obsession is real.

This is also striking. I couldn't ignore this.


He OBVIOUSLY knows Hashirama. He saw his silhouette in Naruto and had a subtle reaction.


----------



## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> Tobi was the previous Mizukage.
> 
> How could Obito have been Mizukage without entirely fucking up the timeline?



People argue that the real Madara or someone else was the one controlling the Mizukage, which is nonsense because: 



insane111 said:


> Kisame also recognized the current Tobi as being the one who controlled Yagura.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> Tobi was the previous Mizukage.
> 
> How could Obito have been Mizukage without entirely fucking up the timeline?



Madara is Mizukage for ___ years and Obito comes along is Mizukage in his place.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

Unless Obito grew up to look like Madara, it was tobi controlling Yagura, not Madara.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> First appearance of the long haired Tobi is went Kisame went rogue and it's likely before Obito died. (Kisame is supposed to be slighty older than Kakashi)



Can't find anything on Kisame's age in the Databook threads, but his wikia page says he was 32 (roughly) at time of death. If he met the Long Haired Masked Man before the Kyuubi attack, then he was roughly 16 years old at the time.

Not much, but it's all we've got.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Even after Kabuto knows he isn't Madara?
> His Hashirama obsession is real.
> 
> This is also striking. I couldn't ignore this.
> ...



it's not like tobi has never used zetsu's recording capabilities?


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

insane111 said:


> People argue that the real Madara or someone else was the one controlling the Mizukage, which is nonsense because:



I know, that's why i've said dat...


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Also Kisame's Madara sighting is after Obito disappeared.


----------



## Saizo sarutobi (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> He OBVIOUSLY knows Hashirama. He saw his silhouette in Naruto and had a subtle reaction.



No.He is the master of deception and harbinger of destruction.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

FUCK YOU NICE
I KNEW I COULDN'T TRUST YOU


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> But where is the proof Kakashi was 13 when he became a Jonin, other than people assuming he was 13 on naruto wiki sites and fan sites? What official documentation, manga, databook, fanbook or otherwise is there to back this claim up?



His listed age in the first Databook is 26; he is either 29 or 30 years old now, if we consider the timeskip. Naruto is currently 16 years old, so subtract 16 from Kakashi's current age: 13-14

Simple.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> But it was previously accepted that Itachi killed his clan at 13 and it wasn't far fetched.
> 
> Show me the panel where it says Madara died shortly after his battle?  There isn't one.
> 
> Madara says he died shortly after awakening his Rinnegan and there is no timeline on when that happened.  If Obito = Tobi it's impossible for Nagato's eyes to be Madara's Rinnegan.



So are you trying to say that nobody in the ninja world noticed that Madara was alive during the third war. 
Tobi even new Nagato since he awakened the Sharingan. Tobi even knows Yahiko wo died during the second war way before Kakashi and Obito were born.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

narutoispoppin said:


> Hmm very interesting analysis. Only problem is their is no proof to Kakashi being 9 yr old when he was a jonin. That would definitely seal the deal.



You are indeed correct, but there is also no proof of Kakashi being 13 at the time he became a Jonin either. Anything that says he is 13 is speculation based on the fact that we know Obito was confirmed to be 13 by the databook. There is no rule that teammates must be the same age. Kakashi had the chops already at age 6 to lead teams on his own, because he was a Chuunin.

Remember how young Itachi was when he looked Oro directly in the face and overpowered him. He looked pretty adult in nature, but he was but a mere 13 years old or something like that then.



Klue said:


> His listed age in the first Databook is 26; he is either 29 or 30 years old now, if we consider the timeskip. Naruto is currently 16 years old, so subtract 16 from Kakashi's current age: 13-14
> 
> Simple.



You are associating Kakashi becoming a jonin at the time of the Kyuubi attack. We know for a fact that isn't the case.

He became a Jonin and conducted his first mission as a Jonin at a time when Minato was himself also a Jonin and Obito was still alive. There is no proof that Kakashi was 13 at the time of the Kakashi Gaiden. All people have is the fact that Obito was 13, and likely so was Rin, but according to the databook, Kakashi achieved every rank 4 years sooner than those two did. Kakashi was a Genin at age 5, obito and rin? Age 9. Kakashi was a Chuunin at age 6, Obito and rin? Age 11. There's no proof that Kakashi was a 9 year old jonin as of the Kakashi Gaiden, but there's also no proof at all that he was 13, either.

And what reason do you have to imply that the Kyuubi attack took place exactly one year after the Kakashi gaiden? That isn't supported by the facts either. Kishi never, not once, accurately nailed down the time line for when the Kakashi Gaiden took place. When he introduced it in the official shonen release, he said "*More than 10 years ago*".

He didn't say "10 years ago" or "11 years ago" or "12 years ago" more than 10 years ago has quite a bit of wiggle room. It can mean anywhere between 11-19 years ago, easily.


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Even after Kabuto knows he isn't Madara?
> His Hashirama obsession is real.


He tells Kabuto that the Hashirama clone was constructed from cells he took from Hashirama during his battle with him.


----------



## Pretty Good Satan (Aug 11, 2012)

Ryan said:


> Tobi is the only person who knew Nagato and he was the one who offered him the eyes, years ago before the war even started.



We only have Tobi's word that the eyes originally belonged to him. In that same statement, Tobi claimed to be Madara.



Ryan said:


> Yagura, the fourth Mizukage, was also the kage when Zabuza was just a little kid (who is the same age as Kakashi), in the academy -his era known as the bloody mist at that time. Guess who was supposedly controlling him? Tobi.



Zabuza's rampage occurred only 11 years before the start of the series.  Naruto was a one-year-old at the time.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> So are you trying to say that nobody in the ninja world noticed that Madara was alive during the third war.
> Tobi even new Nagato since he awakened the Sharingan. Tobi even knows Yahiko wo died during the second war way before Kakashi and Obito were born.



To add to this:

Konan, Yahiko and Nagato knew of a masked man named Madara, as early as the third war. Tobi told Konan that he pushed Yahiko to start Akatsuki, and she believed him or at the very least, did not make an attempt to call him on some sort of inconsistency.

Clearly, there was a masked man running around back when Obito was but a child.




Hexa said:


> He tells Kabuto that the Hashirama clone was constructed from cells he took from Hashirama during his battle with him.



Yup!

I find it amusing that Kabuto didn't call him out on it.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> So are you trying to say that nobody in the ninja world noticed that Madara was alive during the third war.
> Tobi even new Nagato since he awakened the Sharingan. Tobi even knows Yahiko wo died during the second war way before Kakashi and Obito were born.



Tobi is a liar is the only way to put.  Those feats he claims were him pretending to be Madara.  Even Konan and Nagato thought he was Madara.   If Madara is going to have Obito play him than he's obviously going to have to be briefed

If you the reader can learn all about characters than the characters can learn about the characters.  Not a hard concept.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

Kisame meeting Tobi in Mist happened after the Kyuubi attack, hence the longer hair.

Tobi probably got the idea to impersonate Madara when Minato asked him if that's who he was.


----------



## Octavian (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Even after Kabuto knows he isn't Madara?
> His Hashirama obsession is real.
> 
> This is also striking. I couldn't ignore this.
> ...



kyuubi also said " YOU!!" to tobi during the konoha invasion when he sharingan'ed it. we know that madara controlled the kyuubi and through that its likely the kyuubi knew izuna on a personal level.


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

Obito seems more and more obvious every chapter.  Can't say I didn't see this coming >_>  I still see the strong denial though.

The best thing Tobito theory has going for it is motive.  Obito is literally the only guy who could possibly have the same motive as Tobi.  Remember, Tobi is not a "bad" guy...just a bit misguided like Nagato.  Like Nagato, he is bitter about the ninja world and wanted to change it.  Remember Obito?  He was the same way.  He hated the rules, didn't like the ninja world, very similar to Naruto.

Now if you can explain why Izuna/whoever else would want to change the ninja world for the better I'd love to hear it.  As far as I know, none of those kats gave a fuck.


----------



## Penance (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> No you need Madara, who knew who Tobi is.



Madara referenced an accomplice, but he didn't name him.  Might've been talking about Zetsu...


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Kisame meeting Tobi in Mist happened after the Kyuubi attack, hence the longer hair.
> 
> Tobi probably got the idea to impersonate Madara when Minato asked him if that's who he was.



Why would he get the idea from Minato?

Kishimoto already confirmed that Madara and the Masked Man know one another.


----------



## KevKev (Aug 11, 2012)

If Obito did all of this because of Rin's death THEN Kishi really ruined Tobi's character, I'm still hoping this is not true


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> To add to this:
> 
> Konan, Yahiko and Nagato knew of a masked man named Madara, as early as the third war. Tobi told Konan that he pushed Yahiko to start Akatsuki, and she believed him or at the very least, did not make an attempt to call him on some sort of inconsistency.
> 
> ...



If Tobi is Obito what you think happened didn't happen how you think.  It's that simple.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Why would he get the idea from Minato?
> 
> Kishimoto already confirmed that Madara and the Masked Man know one another.



yeah and he also said that tobi was obito.


----------



## son_michael (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Ryan. You are right.
> Just wait a bit.
> 
> Our time will come.



your time is up, our time is now.


----------



## Virys (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Can't find anything on Kisame's age in the Databook threads, but his wikia page says he was 32 (roughly) at time of death. If he met the Long Haired Masked Man before the Kyuubi attack, then he was roughly 16 years old at the time.


Kisame DB3


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

naijaboykev28 said:


> If Obito did all of this because of Rin's death THEN Kishi really ruined his character, I'm still hoping this is not true



so did he ruin Gaara's character, Sasuke's character and so on? We don't even know fully all that happened to be Obito.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Virys said:


> Kisame DB3



Thanks bro.


----------



## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

Penance said:


> Madara referenced an accomplice, but he didn't name him.  Might've been talking about Zetsu...



Oh cmon now 

Besides, Kishi already confirmed they know each other in a recent interview.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

The Bromance/Rivalmance theme in this manga are a bit much though.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Kisame meeting Tobi in Mist happened after the Kyuubi attack, hence the longer hair.
> 
> Tobi probably got the idea to impersonate Madara when Minato asked him if that's who he was.



Why "hence the longer hair" ?

There are 4 situations

Kisame : long hair (and Kisame didn't look like an adult at this point. And he is older than Kakashi. If this event took place after the Kyuubi attack, it wasn't long after)
kyuubi attack : short hair
Itachi meeting : long hair
present : short hair

Whether you put Kisame's encounter before or after the Kyuubi attack, it's inconsistent


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

This thread is so entertaining to read. 

Kurama is so pathetic. Naruto and him should have started having some common ground since part I, his total turn in what amounts to one day in-universe fucking sucks.


----------



## Starstalker (Aug 11, 2012)

Well...time to quit.
I'll go read something else...other than One Piece and Bleach


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> If Tobi is Obito what you think happened didn't happen how you think.  It's that simple.



I didn't imply anything.

If Tobi is Obito, then maybe that masked man running around during the Third War was, Madara.



I'm just trying to make sense of the timeline, while taking Obito into consideration.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> He told Konan. *He lied.*




Not the dreaded Tobi Lied?

I hope that isn't Kishi's excuse for every statement Tobi made.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

This chapter needs to hurry up already.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Why would he get the idea from Minato?
> 
> Kishimoto already confirmed that Madara and the Masked Man know one another.



Minato calling him out on being Madara is the only time he didn't admit to being Madara.

That time, he reacted with a sort of amusement. "Oh, I don't know about that."


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Aug 11, 2012)

There's really no reason to be going back to the databook and previous chapters trying to understand what happened. 

If Tobi is Obito then it just means that anything can change and in turn everything you were lead to believe can be false relating to Obito and Tobi. We don't know the full story. You won't find anything out by backtracking either you have to keep reading the manga to understand it otherwise you'll get confused. 

It's that simple really.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Tobi is a liar is the only way to put.  Those feats he claims were him pretending to be Madara.  Even Konan and Nagato thought he was Madara.   If Madara is going to have Obito play him than he's obviously going to have to be briefed
> 
> If you the reader can learn all about characters than the characters can learn about the characters.  Not a hard concept.



A weak Uchiha like Obito has enough power to summon the nine tails at such a young age..Yeah no just no.

The fact that Tobi actually talks about Hashirama like he knows him says it all.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Why "hence the longer hair" ?
> 
> There are 4 situations
> 
> ...



Unless they're two different people.

Maybe Kisame met both of them before joining Akatsuki, and knew to refer to the fake (Obito) as Madara.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> I didn't imply anything.
> 
> If Tobi is Obito, then maybe that masked man running around during the Third War was, Madara.
> 
> ...



where the fuck was there a mask man to be shown running around during the third war?  The earliest we know of is Obito vs Minato.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Menacing Eyes said:


> I just read Geg's translation. So Tobi does have Obito's eye eh?
> 
> All the odds are against me. But I'm not going to admit defeat 'till the end, when Tobi's mask is off and he confirms his identity.
> 
> *If this manga has taught me anything it's to never give up*.


Son, it wasnt the manga which teached it to you but;


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Why would he get the idea from Minato?
> 
> Kishimoto already confirmed that Madara and the Masked Man know one another.



This. 

If Tobi is Obito (which seems likely), then he was probably Madara's apprentice. I would guess that Madara and Zetsu saved him from dying, and then Madara taught Tobi how to use his Sharingan. 

Madara probably died at some point later on, and Tobi took over his identity. It was probably Madara's idea. Basically he had Tobi take over as head of Akatsuki after he died, and told Tobi to have Nagato revive him once they finished collecting the tailed beasts.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

What are the funeral rites practiced in the Narutoverse? Did he climb out of his grave at some point?


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Why "hence the longer hair" ?
> 
> There are 4 situations
> 
> ...



Because it's simpler to go short hair => long hair => short hair again.

And he hadn't begun impersonating Madara yet at the time of the Kyuubi attack.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> Not the dreaded Tobi Lied?
> 
> I hope that isn't Kishi's excuse for every statement Tobi made.



Lol why?

Tobi the goofy guy was lie.

This is Madara was a lie.

I'm nobody is a lie.

Basically Tobi's been living a lie since he arrived on the scene.

Ok time for beer run lol.


----------



## Rouge Angle (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> Not the dreaded Tobi Lied?
> 
> I hope that isn't Kishi's excuse for every statement Tobi made.



Lol yes. "Something doesn't fit in with my theory = obviously lying."


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> where the fuck was there a mask man to be shown running around during the third war?  The earliest we know of is Obito vs Minato.



Tobi said he pushed Yahiko to start Akatsuki; on some level, that confirms that either Madara, or Tobi was making during that time - when Obito was a child.

Konan didn't refute his claim; she was actually shocked, as if she believed him. Does that not support the idea that the Rain Orphans where dealing with someone named Madara, back then?

Regardless, of Tobi's identity.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> This thread is so entertaining to read.
> 
> Kurama is so pathetic. Naruto and him should have started having some common ground since part I, his total turn in what amounts to one day in-universe fucking sucks.



It actually took the Kyuubi 16 years to warm up to Naruto, but nice try. The Kyuubi has not been entirely upfront about what he thought about Naruto.

If you read, the Kyuubi has justifications that go back as far as part one for why he has switched his opinion of Naruto. The Kyuubi had the flashbacks.


----------



## son_michael (Aug 11, 2012)

Starstalker said:


> Well...time to quit.
> I'll go read something else...other than One Piece and Bleach



NA NA NA NA   NA NA NA NA   HEY HEY HEY    GOODBYE


NA NA NA NA  NA NA NA NA   HEY HEY HEY    GOODBYE


NA NA NA NA  NA NA NA NA   HEY HEY HEY     GOODBYE


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> Not the dreaded Tobi Lied™
> 
> I hope that isn't Kishi's excuse for every statement Tobi made.



Obito is known as a liar.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

Starstalker said:


> Well...time to quit.
> I'll go read something else...other than One Piece and Bleach



You will be back .


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Tobi said he pushed Yahiko to start Akatsuki; on some level, that confirms that either Madara, or Tobi was making during that time - when Obito was a child.
> 
> Konan didn't refute his claim; does that not support the idea that the Rain Orphans where dealing with someone named Madara, back then?



so Madara had Yahiko form akatsuki.


----------



## KevKev (Aug 11, 2012)

This thread should have a poll:

U mad?

-I'm quiting the manga.
-LOL TOBITO'S WIN!!
-I ain't even mad.


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Octavian said:


> i thought the rinnegan was the evolution of the sharingan.



rinnegan is senju + uchiha powers, the EMS evolves to rinnegan only after acquisition of the younger son's physical/yang/life energies and an awakening.  rinnegan = To be a Rikudou, as in having powers of both the elder and younger sons powers to become a whole (not on RS level but still a Rikudou nonetheless) It's either Uchiha EMS with senju dna/energies or an uzumaki (being from younger son branch also) with some sort of sharingan/spiritual energies/dna from uchiha.  



Tobitobi said:


> Perhaps Tobi took some of Kushina's chakra. Would explain the chakra chains.
> 
> Just my opinion.



the chakra chains are Gedou path's power.  RS is the whole with the rinnegan, having life and death powers, younger got the life powers of the rinnegan, elder got the death powers.  younger son would have the sage mode, mokuton, chakra chains all the other good stuff that comes with the yang energies, and RS would've had everything.  



Raventhal said:


> I couldn't have sworn I read 18 years ago.  But it says 10 years ago. I assume from part 1 which doesn't make sense either lol.
> 
> LikeNaruto
> 
> 10 years from part 1 would mean they would be 16.  But Kyuubi attack took place 16 years ago.



That 10 years is a rough estimate, but according to Kakashi's age, and other facts thruout the series, we know the 3rd ninja world war was roughly a year or year + half before the kyubi attack.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

AMtrack said:


> Obito seems more and more obvious every chapter.  Can't say I didn't see this coming >_>  I still see the strong denial though.
> 
> The best thing Tobito theory has going for it is motive.  Obito is literally the only guy who could possibly have the same motive as Tobi.  Remember, Tobi is not a "bad" guy...just a bit misguided like Nagato.  Like Nagato, he is bitter about the ninja world and wanted to change it.  Remember Obito?  He was the same way.  He hated the rules, didn't like the ninja world, very similar to Naruto.
> 
> Now if you can explain why Izuna/whoever else would want to change the ninja world for the better I'd love to hear it.  As far as I know, none of those kats gave a fuck.



This is laughable. You had to be effing joking calling Tobi a "bit misguided".

This guy came to hate his own family and clan for no apparent reason and helped to kill them. 
He came to hate Konoha for no apparent reason (bar this Rin chick ugh...) enough to kill his own sensei, his wife, shinobi who were protecting them, Biwako and many others through Kurama.
He has no qualms about killing people. He mercilessly murdered Konan, showed sick pleasure while observing Sasuke piercing Karin with Chidori. He may be involved with massacring kekkai genkai clans in Hidden Mist and in its bloody education.

And you call him "a bit misguided"?


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> so Madara had Yahiko form akatsuki.



Cool.

Then Nagato "awakened" the Rinnegan before Madara, and is therefore, likely the true "Second" Six Paths.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

Starstalker said:


> Well...time to quit.
> I'll go read something else...other than One Piece and Bleach



Goodbye. I'll remember the good times and the bad times. Wait... who are you again?


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> This thread is so entertaining to read.
> 
> Kurama is so pathetic. Naruto and him should have started having some common ground since part I, his total turn in what amounts to one day in-universe fucking sucks.



I cried when I read his good guy speech to Tobi.  I mean when he said there was something he HAD to say I was expecting something a little more...ferocious.  He's a fucking pikachu now.



Klue said:


> I didn't imply anything.
> 
> If Tobi is Obito, then maybe that masked man running around during the Third War was, Madara.
> 
> ...



Could be...there are a number of possibilities.  Honestly I find the bitching about the timeline by anti-Tobito theorists to be a horrifically weak argument at best.  Especially considering the fact that we don't even know the full timeline, nor the whole story within that timeline, thus making our knowledge too limited to make that judgement.

In simpler words, it's a bullshit argument, especially now that we know that Madara didn't die at VotE, which means we dont know when he died at all.  That blows the timeline wide open.


----------



## Mayaki (Aug 11, 2012)

The chapter seems to confirm that his eye is obitos. But I still don't see how he is Obito. The way he talks he sounds like someone who was entrusted with something himself. Maybe he is really the elder son.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Cool.
> 
> Then Nagato "awakened" the Rinnegan before Madara, and is therefore, likely the true "Second" Six Paths.



sorry i don't believe in the idea they were given literally nor do i necessarily believe that after they were given that Madara was going to die immediately, i'm sure the guy wanted to make sure things went as planned to ensure his future revival.   think about it.  "hey six year old kid here are some nice pair of eyes, good bye now"  "dies"


----------



## Penance (Aug 11, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> But where is the proof Kakashi was 13 when he became a Jonin, other than people assuming he was 13 on naruto wiki sites and fan sites? What official documentation, manga, databook, fanbook or otherwise is there to back this claim up?





naijaboykev28 said:


> This thread should have a poll:
> 
> U mad?
> 
> ...



^This one...


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

AMtrack said:


> Could be...there are a number of possibilities.  Honestly I find the bitching about the timeline by anti-Tobito theorists to be a horrifically weak argument at best.  Especially considering the fact that we don't even know the full timeline, nor the whole story within that timeline, thus making our knowledge too limited to make that judgement.
> 
> In simpler words, it's a bullshit argument, especially now that we know that Madara didn't die at VotE, which means we dont know when he died at all.  That blows the timeline wide open.



It doesn't blow the timeline wide open. There are a number of factors that must be accounted for - even if we don't know exactly how each little point went down.

Some things definitely took place before Obito's death, and if Tobi is Obito in spirit, then we have to make sense of them.

Frankly, it's no different then the "hair" argument. People made that argument the very moment Tobi appeared - 300 chapters ago.


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Konan didn't refute his claim; she was actually shocked, as if she believed him. Does that not support the idea that the Rain Orphans where dealing with someone named Madara, back then?


She wouldn't have to have known a masked guy called "Madara" back then to believe that he could have influenced things behind the scenes.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

Is Madara a teacher of public speaking, by the way? Or can he make someone's intelligence dramatically increase?

Because that's impressive.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> sorry i don't believe in the idea they were given literally nor do i necessarily believe that after they were given that Madara was going to die immediately, i'm sure the guy wanted to make sure things went as planned to ensure his future revival.   think about it.  "hey six year old kid here are some nice pair of eyes, good bye now"  "dies"



If he died back then, then Tobi existed during the time of the Second War - simple.

It's not hard to believe.

At the end of the day, Madara died and was forced to wait for someone else to see to his return. It was out of his hands, regardless.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Mayaki said:


> The chapter seems to confirm that his eye is obitos. But I still don't see how he is Obito. The way he talks he sounds like someone who was entrusted with something himself. Maybe he is really the elder son.



no at the time of his death obito entrusted kakashi with protecting rin and he failed.  Now Obito is having his rant at Kakashi and replies to Naruto saying "how would you think Minato, Jiraiya(obito)would feel if they entrusted you with something (Kakashi) and you failed?


----------



## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Aug 11, 2012)

The Wired said:


> At least kishimoto was smart enough to bring Orochimaru back before he ruined Tobi.
> 
> Kishi:I have fucked tobi's character up six ways from tuesday. What should I do? Ahh ill bring orochimaru back and then fodderize tobi.



You're speaking as if Orichimaru hasn't already been ruined.


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> i guess the real Madara was still alive at this point and he saved Obito or revived him and left him with the task to complete his plans.
> the one who met Itachi was the real Madara,but the one who fought Minato and onwards was Obito.



Itachi was 4.5 years old when Tobi fought Minato.  If Madara was alive and the one who met Itachi, that means that Madara was alive up till least the uchiha massacre and that there would be 2 maskedmen.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> If he died back then, then Tobi existed during the time of the Second War - simple.
> 
> It's not hard to believe.
> 
> At the end of the day, Madara died and was forced to wait for someone else to see to his return. It was out of his hands, regardless.



or zetsu's recording solves the problem.  Heck it even makes far more sense for zetsu who can travel underground and the one that is always watching over fights to be the one that saved Obito.   And despite that i still don't see Madara dying during the second warld war since by length hair shown it seems like he died not that long ago.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> or zetsu's recording solves the problem.



What are you talking about?

Madara and Tobi met, they know one another. Kishi confirmed as much.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Lol why?
> 
> Tobi the goofy guy was lie.
> 
> ...


Yeah, his entire character is a lie - not sure what I think about that. Maybe he should keep lying? It's the right thing to do.



Rouge Angle said:


> Lol yes. "Something doesn't fit in with my theory = obviously lying."


I never assumed he was lying. Tobito fans have used the "Tobi is a liar" excuse more than any other group. It's just poor writing and hurts his character. I don't care who's right or wrong.


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> This is laughable. You had to be effing joking calling Tobi a "bit misguided".
> 
> This guy came to hate his own family and clan for no apparent reason and helped to kill them.
> He came to hate Konoha for no apparent reason (bar this Rin chick ugh...) enough to kill his own sensei, his wife, shinobi who were protecting them, Biwako and many others through Kurama.
> ...



No this is laughable.  I would love to hear your opinion on Itachi, Zabuza, Nagato, Sasuke?  Tobi hasn't done anything worse than them, just on a larger scale.  In fact, i would consider Oro to be far more evil than he is.  Tobi is working to create a *better* world.  In which case, "the ends justify the means".

Look at Itachi.  He killed his own family and the rest of his clan.  He mindfucked his brother and twisted him into a sick avenger.  But what did we find out?  He had good intentions.  In other words, "the ends justified the means".  Course he found out a wee too late he fucked up, but he was not evil.  Just misguided.

Look at Nagato.  He blew up an entire village.  God knows how many people he's killed.  He mercilessly killed his own teacher.  And what do we find out?  He was working to create a peaceful ninja world.  Therefore, again, the ends justified the means.  Of course after Naruto's speech he realized he fucked up and revived everyone.  Still the theme is the same; he wasn't evil, just misguided in his actions.

The jury remains out on Sasuke.  But something tells me by the time its over we can look back and say the kid was just misguided.

Which brings us to Tobi.  How is he any different than Itachi and Nagato?  He's not.  He's yet another villain who uses any means necessary to achieve noble ends.  This isn't Tobi vs good guys.  It's Tobi vs the fucked up ninja system.  But if the theme is the same, he'll realize he fucked up and that there is a better way (Naruto's way).  This is why I say Obito is the best option.  If Tobi was actually an evil sick bastard others would work.  But he's not.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> Madara and Tobi met, they know one another. Kishi confirmed as much.



how about you read my whole response first? thank you.


----------



## KevKev (Aug 11, 2012)

Penance said:


> ^This one...





> Originally Posted by *naijaboykev28  *
> This thread should have a poll:
> 
> U mad?
> ...


^This one...


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

I love how the fact that Obito was a Liar by nature is completely overlooked here.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> how about you read my whole response first? thank you.



Oh, an edit. 




Nic said:


> I love how the fact that Obito was a Liar by nature is completely overlooked here.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

This reminds me of the old Nic/Klue days.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Lol, that Starstalker guy might quit the manga?

I say good riddance.

Funny how alot of these Anti-Tobito people think they're so badass and yet when the manga doesn't cater specifically to them and go the way they want it, they decide to quit and act like little babies. Maybe they just don't want to admit they were wrong.

If you can't even wait for his backstory then stop reading the manga right now because you know what's coming.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

^ Or maybe some of us like good writing.



Nic said:


> no at the time of his death obito entrusted kakashi with protecting rin and he failed.  Now Obito is having his rant at Kakashi and replies to Naruto saying "how would you think Minato, Jiraiya(obito)would feel if they entrusted you with something (Kakashi) and you failed?



Izuna basically died so that Madara would kill Hashirama. Oops. 

Sorry. I really, really, really can't buy the possibility that KISHI, of all shounen authors, would have a major villain candidate be motivated by a teenage romance when the only other character in the entire series motivated by romance is a little girl who is more or less fodder in Kishi's eyes. Kishi faps over brotherly love and creepy bromance, not romance.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

if the whole anti tobi theory rest on when Madara died, then that's weird since there's actually no proof of when Madara actually died. :/


----------



## Shikamaru Nara (Aug 11, 2012)

Oh well well well.

Gonna be really interesting.I'll leave that here for interested folks.



Can't be fully true though


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> Izuna basically died so that Madara would kill Hashirama. Oops.
> 
> Sorry. I really, really, really can't buy the possibility that KISHI, of all shounen authors, would have a major villain candidate be motivated by a teenage romance when the only other character in the entire series motivated by romance is a little girl who is more or less fodder in Kishi's eyes. Kishi faps over brotherly love and creepy bromance, not romance.



why is it so hard to believedwhen he had similar themes with other villains in this manga.  You can't tell me that Kishi treats his villain in much the same way that most shounens do. In fact Kishi makes his villains more human and in fact somewhat sympathetic.  Generally shounen draw a clear line between good and evil, kishi does not.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> Izuna basically died so that Madara would kill Hashirama. Oops.



Why would Izuna be buttmad at Kakashi for Madara's failures?


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> It doesn't blow the timeline wide open. There are a number of factors that must be accounted for - even if we don't know exactly how each little point went down.



But this is what I'm saying, those can easily be explained away by an author, precisely because we dont know how each little point went down.  In other words there's no plot hole, which makes it a valid theory.

This is compounded by the fact that Tobi is a chronic liar.  Thus we can never be sure of what is true and what is not.  And if there exists an ability that can alter memories it makes it all the more complex.  My point is there is no living reason why Tobi can't be Obito.  Timeline issues is just not a valid counter-argument, and I wish people would rely on an argument far more substantial.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> Is Madara a teacher of public speaking, by the way? Or can he make someone's intelligence dramatically increase?
> 
> Because that's impressive.



I sincerely hope no one has the misfortune of learning public speaking from the likes of Madara considering his haughty attitude and level of maturity or lack thereof. He would do little but contaminate others with his bitchiness and turn them into whiners.

Unfortunately though it might be so considering Tobi's moronic rants in this chapter.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:
			
		

> Or maybe some of us like good writing.


Funny considering Tobi being Obito is the only outcome that would be good writing. Have you even been paying attention to what this manga is about or the themes established in it? What you guys are in is nothing shirt of arrogant denial.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> ^ Or maybe some of us like good writing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm sure there will be more to it than that. I mean that's like saying Nagato is motivated by his parents dying. 

Most likely Madara convinced/brainwashed Obito into believing that the world was worthless and that the only hope was the Mugen Tsukoyomi. Having a battered/broken body and watching Rin die was probably just the thing that pushed him over the edge. 

Same way Madara convinced Kisame, really. A "world of truth" an all that.


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Why would Izuna be buttmad at Kakashi for Madara's failures?



Exactly!  He wouldn't!  Tobi is clearly connected to Kakashi.  And Kakashi is realizing it now.  As far as I know, Kakashi has no connections to Izuna or whoever else people want Tobi to be these days.


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

so the argument is still on.reminds me of the forum's most heated days of discussions.
good times.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> if the whole anti tobi theory rest on when Madara died, then that's weird since there's actually no proof of when Madara actually died. :/



Madara said "that brat Nagato hass finally grown up"

That implies that Madara died when Nagato was young and first got his rinnegan.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> Madara said "that brat Nagato hass finally grown up"
> 
> That implies that Madara died when Nagato was young and first got his rinnegan.


Or he never met the adult Nagato and died while looking for him at the Mizu village while he was controling Yagura with his mask on...


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

yeah i hardly see how tobi being obito is bad writing to me.  It keeps the characters connected and gives a connection between the reader and the character along with sympathy for him.  The reader has no connection to a random new character or Izuna in fact it would make most of us feel like this whole mask mystery was simply a waste of time since a person like Izuna could just have very well been represented without one than with one.


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Leptirica said:


> This confirms nothing except that this guy knows a few things about Kakashi - which isn't weird at all as Kakashi is in possession of the second from the pair of eyes that have proven very useful to him.
> 
> Dude has done his research, and found in Kakashi's dwelling another confirmation of the rightness his philosophy or whatever. I don't see why everyone's pissing their pants.



It ain't over till the fat lady sings.  You make a good point, Nothing regarding identity is confirmed as of now other than the fact that Tobi has Obito's eye and his eye power which is 100% confirmed.


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> Madara said "that brat Nagato hass finally grown up"
> 
> That implies that Madara died when Nagato was young and first got his rinnegan.



That leaves a huge chunk of time.  I mean Naruto is 15-16 and still considered a kid by someone like Madara.  Which means Madara could have died anywhere within a space of 6-10 years, even longer depending on how old Nagato was when he met Madara.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

If you read Kakashi Gaiden Obito was called out even by Minato for lying.  It's in his nature like Nic said.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> Madara said "that brat Nagato hass finally grown up"
> 
> That implies that Madara died when Nagato was young and first got his rinnegan.



no he give the rin'negan to a kid Nagato, that's it.  if you're forty years older than someone its common theme to treat that person as a kid. Not to mention Nagato was only in his early twenties during the kyuubi attack.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

AMtrack said:


> That leaves a huge chunk of time.  I mean Naruto is 15-16 and still considered a kid by someone like Madara.  Which means Madara could have died anywhere within a space of 6-10 years, even longer depending on how old Nagato was when he met Madara.



Or he got old to the point that he couldn't travel to check up on him.


----------



## Menacing Eyes (Aug 11, 2012)

Oh boy, this is gonna be one looooooong following week. Better brace yourselves.


----------



## Grendel (Aug 11, 2012)

Sounds to me as if tobi is gonna be on the receiving end of some tnj here soon...


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

kid reader -  Tobi is izuna  "oh ok, that old dude"
kid reader - tobi is obito "omg, obito is really back, omfg "


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

Rokudaime Sennin ? said:


> It ain't over till the fat lady sings.  You make a good point, Nothing regarding identity is confirmed as of now other than the fact that Tobi has Obito's eye and his eye power which is 100% confirmed.



The fat lady is warming up.  Kakashi gaiden is the only side-story Kishi ever wrote.  If that doesn't make it obvious I dont know what does.  Of all gaidens he  could have written, he only wrote one..which happened to be about Obito.  I'm jus sayin, Kishi isn't exactly known for deception.

Almost every reveal started looking pretty obvious before it even happened.


----------



## ironblade_x1 (Aug 11, 2012)

I never understood how exactly Madara was familiar with Nagato.

I mean, Nagato was a kid when the Sannin found him, and we can assume that they were probably young adults at that point, maybe mid-20s or less. 

So if Madara were alive at that point, he would've been very, very old. Really old. 

But his Edo Tensei is basically the spitting image of his younger self, and doesn't look aged at all.

I don't understand anything.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

Grendel said:


> Sounds to me as if tobi is gonna be on the receiving end of some tnj here soon...



Receiving?

No, if anything he'll be the one doing the TnJ. We're going to have to hear his whole sob story once we find out his true identity.


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

that is one tough eye, boulder proof and blind proof......add that to the uchiha powers, indestructible eyes.....dear god.

if it is obito's eye power, then the minato fight is a huge plot hole that needs explaining.....only way i can see it now is tobi has the essence of obito like kabuto, which would explain the shared dimension.....


----------



## Arles Celes (Aug 11, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> ^ Or maybe some of us like good writing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There wasn't any parental love in part 1 and yet in part 2 it is starting to rival bromance. Hell...most of the main baddies did become evil in some way because their parent died or something like that.

Kishi had married recently so perhaps his respect for romance also increase a bit even though he still loves trolling Sakura.

Do we want Tobi to be evil because his parents/friend/s were killed or do we want something new for a change? With so much implied yaoi some heterosexual stuff could be a nice change especially if nicely handled.

Certainly Kishi wont make Tobi be evil for the sake of being evil as even Oro was said to become evil due to the death of his parents. There are basically no TRUE villains in this manga...just misguided guys. Kishi isn't into complete monsters and when they are kinda such(Hidan,Gato,Mizuki) he treats them as fodder.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> kid reader - tobi is obito "omg, obito is really back, omfg "



I think their reaction would be more one of shock and horror than anything.


----------



## Shikamaru Nara (Aug 11, 2012)

Well at least it's now explained how Kakashi got his MS.

Like some have already assumed, Kakashi didn't attain it through training, but since these eyes are linked, the moment Tobi was able to achieve the Mangeykou Sharingan it automatically upgraded Kakashis Sharingan to a MS.

Meaning that Tobis abilities, were developed during the time-skip.


----------



## Grendel (Aug 11, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Receiving?
> 
> No, if anything he'll be the one doing the TnJ. We're going to have to hear his whole sob story once we find out his true identity.



Of course he's gonna be doing some talking...his questions to naruto aren't too far off from what nagatos originally were...


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Rokudaime Sennin ? said:


> It ain't over till the fat lady sings.  You make a good point, Nothing regarding identity is confirmed as of now other than the fact that Tobi has Obito's eye and his eye power which is 100% confirmed.



Come on.  Look at what he's saying.  Do you really see Izuna or whoever saying that stuff?

And you guys act like this is the only evidence for Obito lol.  There's just overwhelming evidence that Tobi is Obito now.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> I think their reaction would be more one of shock and horror than anything.



Well, the only japanese reaction we have so far is Ohana's and when questioned about that, her answer implied she hoped Tobi wasn't Obito.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

yeah Izuna just happens to be faking a personal vendetta against Kakashi.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

jgalt7 said:


> that is one tough eye, boulder proof and blind proof......add that to the uchiha powers, indestructible eyes.....dear god.
> 
> if it is obito's eye power, then the minato fight is a huge plot hole that needs explaining.....only way i can see it now is tobi has the essence of obito like kabuto, which would explain the shared dimension.....


The head never did crush; 

Kishi knows the key of the survival might be on the right part of the boulder which kepts being avoided on paneled, maybe another rock is holding the rock from being crushing the head or something.


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> so the argument is still on.reminds me of the forum's most heated days of discussions.
> good times.


its already at 1.4k+ posts again


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Come on.  Look at what he's saying.  Do you really see Izuna or whoever saying that stuff?
> 
> And you guys act like this is the only evidence for Obito lol.  There's just overwhelming evidence that Tobi is Obito now.



Then why would he say that he found the eye instead of saying it was his to begin with like he said about Nagato's rinnegan.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Well, the only japanese reaction we have so far is Ohana's and when questioned about that, her answer implied she hoped Tobi wasn't Obito.



ohana isn't 12. lol She's probably Ace's age.  No offense.   I'm older anyways most likely.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

Shikamaru Nara said:


> Well at least it's now explained how Kakashi got his MS.
> 
> Like some have already assumed, Kakashi didn't attain it through training, but since these eyes are linked, the moment Tobi was able to achieve the Mangeykou Sharingan it automatically upgraded Kakashis Sharingan to a MS.
> 
> Meaning that Tobis abilities, were developed during the time-skip.



Unlikely.

If Tobi's Space-time jutsu is an MS jutsu, then Tobi had it way before Kakashi achieved MS.

Unless this was a case of Kakashi suddenly realizing he had that ability one day, they achieved it at different times.


----------



## ironblade_x1 (Aug 11, 2012)

My only beef with it possibly being Obito is that there was literally no buildup. All we got was Kakashi's Gaiden. 

That's why I wasn't a big fan of the Izuna theory, or the Nidaime one, or other similar theories. No buildup. Just throwing in a character mentioned in passing to fill this guy's role would be a real letdown.


----------



## Grendel (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> yeah Izuna just happens to be faking a personal vendetta against Kakashi.



Yeah this chapter makes it being anybody but obito at this point unlikely...


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Well, the only japanese reaction we have so far is Ohana's and when questioned about that, her answer implied she hoped Tobi wasn't Obito.



We're talking about younger readers, not us older, jaded folk.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> If you read Kakashi Gaiden Obito was called out even by Minato for lying.  It's in his nature like Nic said.


That's fine if said character is not providing backstory - treat it with respect. I mean, some of the most critical moments in the manga and people are arguing about whether Tobi is lying or not. Seriously, that is lousy writing.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

ironblade_x1 said:


> I never understood how exactly Madara was familiar with Nagato.
> 
> I mean, Nagato was a kid when the Sannin found him, and we can assume that they were probably young adults at that point, maybe mid-20s or less.
> 
> ...



Not necessarily. If you go back and read, Kabuto bragged that Madara was a "special" Edo Tensei that was "beyond his prime". So even though _usually_ Edo Tensei revives the person as they were when they died, Madara's was probably an exception. Kabuto pretty much said himself that it wasn't a normal Edo which is why he took longer to summon. 



Shikamaru Nara said:


> Well at least it's now explained how Kakashi got his MS.
> 
> Like some have already assumed, Kakashi didn't attain it through training, but since these eyes are linked, the moment Tobi was able to achieve the Mangeykou Sharingan it automatically upgraded Kakashis Sharingan to a MS.
> 
> Meaning that Tobis abilities, were developed during the time-skip.



Not so fast. Tobi already has his spacetime jutsu when he fought the 4th hokage, so that doesn't quite add up.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

jgalt7 said:


> that is one tough eye, boulder proof and blind proof......add that to the uchiha powers, indestructible eyes.....dear god.
> 
> if it is obito's eye power, then the minato fight is a huge plot hole that needs explaining.....only way i can see it now is tobi has the essence of obito like kabuto, which would explain the shared dimension.....



Again Minato's fight is not hard to explain.  Tell me what he did that's so overwhelmingly powerful?

1. He teleports behind Minato and tries to port him and fails.
2. He phases through Minato and tries to trap him with chains.
3.  He tries to touch Minato and gets FTG v.2 rasengan in the back.
4. He gets FTG kunai in the gut and his sharingan control released.  

Ok what did Tobi do that was all powerful?


----------



## Rama (Aug 11, 2012)

Shikamaru Nara said:


> Well at least it's now explained how Kakashi got his MS.
> 
> Like some have already assumed, Kakashi didn't attain it through training, but since these eyes are linked, the moment Tobi was able to achieve the Mangeykou Sharingan it automatically upgraded Kakashis Sharingan to a MS.
> 
> Meaning that Tobis abilities, were developed during the time-skip.



I don't get it, Tobi was using his S/T Jutsu to fight Minato, at that time Kakashi didn't have MS as far as we know; or It could be the case that Kakashi had MS since that time but never tried using it since he wasn't aware of unlocking it.


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

guys guys, answer me this...


what is the point of kishi revealing that tobi's eye is obito's right now, if he will reveal that he is obito when the mask breaks?

its like show a sharingan first, and then reveal that the user is an uchiha...

think of it.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Rama said:


> I don't get it, Tobi was using his S/T Jutsu to fight Minato, at that time Kakashi didn't have MS as far as we know; or It could be the case that Kakashi had MS since that time but never tried using it since he wasn't aware of unlocking it.



we don't even know if his jutsu requires MS. In fact i'm willing to bet it doesn't or he'd be blind from that eye and he was wearing a mask for the most this time with a view from that eye only.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:
			
		

> Then why would he say that he found the eye instead of saying it was his to begin with like he said about Nagato's rinnegan.


Did he really say he found it or that he got it?


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

AMtrack said:


> No this is laughable.  I would love to hear your opinion on Itachi, Zabuza, Nagato, Sasuke?  Tobi hasn't done anything worse than them, just on a larger scale.  In fact, i would consider Oro to be far more evil than he is.  Tobi is working to create a *better* world.  In which case, "the ends justify the means".
> 
> Look at Itachi.  He killed his own family and the rest of his clan.  He mindfucked his brother and twisted him into a sick avenger.  But what did we find out?  He had good intentions.  In other words, "the ends justified the means".  Course he found out a wee too late he fucked up, but he was not evil.  Just misguided.
> 
> ...



That they are/were evil people?

What are you trying to do is white-wash Tobi's actions. Rejocing over someone's approaching death (Karin) doesn't scream "misguided" it screams "evil". Good intentions aren't everything to label a character or person good or evil, actions and choices matter far more and Tobi's doings don't say "misguided", but planned and desired "That's the plan of mine to start a war to bring peace". 

Would you call RL terrorists or psychos killing people "misguided people"? Because the may work for some noble cause (noble only in their minds)?

There is certain line after crossing which the "he didn't know any better" excuse doesn't work anymore.

That ninja world is f***** up? I agree, but Naruto apparently sees it as worth being sustained.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> guys guys, answer me this...
> 
> 
> what is the point of kishi revealing that tobi's eye is obito's right now, if he will reveal that he is obito when the mask breaks?
> ...



because he wants to think the eye might have been stolen just like kakashi seemed to think originally until tobi's speech which resulted in him hyperventilating.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> its like show a sharingan first, and then reveal that the user is an uchiha...



Isn't that exactly what he did for Tobi?


----------



## fromashesrise (Aug 11, 2012)

Shikamaru Nara said:


> Well at least it's now explained how Kakashi got his MS.
> 
> Like some have already assumed, Kakashi didn't attain it through training, but since these eyes are linked, the moment Tobi was able to achieve the Mangeykou Sharingan it automatically upgraded Kakashis Sharingan to a MS.
> 
> Meaning that Tobis abilities, were developed during the time-skip.



Implying that Tobi achieved MS. We've never seen it yet and you're already jumping to pointless conjecture.

This whole thread is nothing but conjecture. There's no proof from this chapter that Tobi is Obito, just that his eye is Obito's. That's all we have to go on right now. Period.


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

i'm getting a visual of tobi being toph beifong, spamming his blind obito MS eye, lol.........feeling the vibrations of his attackers, lol.


----------



## Shikamaru Nara (Aug 11, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Unlikely.
> 
> If Tobi's Space-time jutsu is an MS jutsu, then Tobi had it way before Kakashi achieved MS.
> 
> Unless this was a case of Kakashi suddenly realizing he had that ability one day, they achieved it at different times.


I think its without a doubt a MS ability.How would it make sense for Kakashi to have a MS S/T jutsu while Tobi with Obitos other eye is using it via base Sharingan?

As for the rest...I frkn forgot that night  
Srry for that bs.


----------



## Grendel (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> guys guys, answer me this...
> 
> 
> what is the point of kishi revealing that tobi's eye is obito's right now, if he will reveal that he is obito when the mask breaks?
> ...



Yeah but tobis words to kakashi and then naruto almost make it undeniable that there is a past relationship between kakashi and tobi...its pretty strong evidence for tobito...


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Did he really say he found it or that he got it?



He said he found it at the Kannabi bridge? But Obito died in a cave. 

To all those who still think Tobi is Obito. How come Minato, Kakashi, and people who know Obito sense Obito's chakra. In the series people like Minato have shown the ability to know who people are just by their chakra.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:
			
		

> That's fine if said character is not providing backstory - treat it with respect. I mean, some of the most critical moments in the manga and people are arguing about whether Tobi is lying or not. Seriously, that is lousy writing.


But is it's in that character's personality to lie, I don't see a problem.

besides, the backstory is confirmed to be legit as long as we get flashbacks. So, I don't see how it's lousy writing.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Receiving?
> 
> No, if anything he'll be the one doing the TnJ. We're going to have to hear his whole sob story once we find out his true identity.



We know his backstory
He was turned into Zetsu goo and heard Rin died so everyone must live under his genjutsu and those who oppose this goal must be mercilessly killed.

While sasuke, Kabuto, Nagato and Orochimaru brought us the root of the problem (Rikudou and his sons's mythology) Obito has nothing else to offer than teen romance.
Madara going to Naruto is inevitable now otherwise Naruto would not have even met one of the masterminds that are shaking the world now.

He would have met only puppets and Sasuke. 
Tobi is just used to give 2-3 chapters of Kakashi's development. The chapter 600 event is more likely to be in his final chapter in which he loses his mask and his life than something else.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> guys guys, answer me this...
> 
> 
> what is the point of kishi revealing that tobi's eye is obito's right now, if he will reveal that he is obito when the mask breaks?
> ...



He's leaving it slightly ambiguous. 

Kishi has a history of doing obvious things. Look at Pain. From the start, everybody assumed it was Nagato controlling the bodies. Some people even thought it was so obvious that it had to be someone else. 

What happened? Yep, it was Nagato.


Or what about Naruto's father? People had been guessing since the first chapter that his father was the 4th Hokage. It was so obvious people thought it was a red herring. What happened? Eventually it was revealed that the 4th Hokage was Naruto's father. 


It's just how Kishi is.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

Oh god, I love the way the Kyuubi jumps in and tells him that his words do not apply to Naruto. How fucking badass. The Fourth gave Naruto the Kyuubi's power for this very moment. It's time baby. It's time!!!


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> That's fine if said character is not providing backstory - treat it with respect. I mean, some of the most critical moments in the manga and people are arguing about whether Tobi is lying or not. Seriously, that is lousy writing.



 ?\_(ツ)_/?

That's your opinion.  To me it makes it more realistic when you have people be unreliable narrators like it is in real life.  It's kind of boring when you have people state something and it's always true.  

I read the epic novels like Wheel of Time where you have to deal with unreliable narrators out of ignorance, over confidence, lairs etc.  I'm used to it.


----------



## Rama (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> we don't even know if his jutsu requires MS. In fact i'm willing to bet it doesn't or he'd be blind from that eye and he was wearing a mask for the most this time with a view from that eye only.



I just find it strange that every time he uses his S/T jutsu the inside of his mask becomes dark, it could be that he is using his MS or that is part of the technique.  Also maybe he being part Zetsu lets him spam MS without risking going blind.


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Again Minato's fight is not hard to explain.  Tell me what he did that's so overwhelmingly powerful?
> 
> 1. He teleports behind Minato and tries to port him and fails.
> 2. He phases through Minato and tries to trap him with chains.
> ...



it's not the feat.....it's the spamming like it's a big spam fest in hawaii that is bothersome.  

it is easy to believe that a blind izuna would take on an obito eye, and is some way both obito's ability and izuna's ability got blended the way an EMS would......but for some here to simply assume tobi is full on obito, when spoilers only mention the eye......nonsense.....

the fight itself is not the issue, it's the reasoning that tobi IS obito and not just obito's eye.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> He said he found it at the Kannabi bridge? But Obito died in a cave.
> 
> To all those who still think Tobi is Obito. How come Minato, Kakashi, and people who know Obito sense Obito's chakra. In the series people like Minato have shown the ability to know who people are just by their chakra.



Because they're not sensors except for Kakashi and we don't know if Kakashi even had that ability back then.  Not to mention they're not expecting their dead comrade to be alive and let alone evil.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:
			
		

> He said he found it at the Kannabi bridge? But Obito died in a cave.


he might have meant in the Kannabi bridge mission. And he got it, not found it. 



> To all those who still think Tobi is Obito. How come Minato, Kakashi, and people who know Obito sense Obito's chakra. In the series people like Minato have shown the ability to know who people are just by their chakra.


Minato can recognize people by their chakra?

No seriously, though? Can he? I'm not really sure. I'd like a link before I speculate further on how it's still possible for him to be Obito even if he could sense his chakra.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

ironblade_x1 said:


> My only beef with it possibly being Obito is that there was literally no buildup. All we got was Kakashi's Gaiden.
> 
> That's why I wasn't a big fan of the Izuna theory, or the Nidaime one, or other similar theories. No buildup. Just throwing in a character mentioned in passing to fill this guy's role would be a real letdown.



This.
Not even inner monologues of Kakashi mentioning Rin and Obito etc.
Things that would have made his reveal as Tobi a little more dramatic.
But now it's just 'That kid who was mentioned in passing ages ago'. Should it turn out to be Obito.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> He said he found it at the Kannabi bridge? But Obito died in a cave.



I believe he says he found it at the BATTLE of Kannabi bridge, not the bridge itself.



> To all those who still think Tobi is Obito. How come Minato, Kakashi, and people who know Obito sense Obito's chakra. In the series people like Minato have shown the ability to know who people are just by their chakra.



Chakra nature can change. See: Sasuke



Ginko25 said:


> We know his backstory
> He was turned into Zetsu goo and heard Rin died so everyone must live under his genjutsu and those who oppose this goal must be mercilessly killed.



You assume that's all there is. You don't know that for certain.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Aug 11, 2012)

Shit is on like Donkey Kong now. 
I never thought Kishi would ever take those Obito theories and make them for real like not a joke at all.
What's next Tobi Tank


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> No seriously, though? Can he? I'm not really sure. I'd like a link  before I speculate further on how it's still possible for him to be  Obito even if he could sense his chakra.



The Kyuubi recognized his sharingan even though he basically never revealed his sharingan to anyone but Rin and Kakashi.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Because they're not sensors except for Kakashi and we don't know if Kakashi even had that ability back then.  Not to mention they're not expecting their dead comrade to be alive and let alone evil.



Kakashi has shown multiple times that he can tell who a person is just by their chakra. It just shows Tobi isn't Obito. 

I laugh at the fact that people ignore that Tobi has wrinkles under his eyes and on his face.


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

the jutsu is similar but not the same......

it is obito's eye but not obito.....

so whoever has obito's eye kinda blurred the version of kamui....

if this is the case......if an uchiha with MS gets implanted with another pair of eyes that is not his kin's, is it technically EMS?  for all intents and purposes, tobi is not blind......i think.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> Kakashi has shown multiple times that he can tell who a person is just by their chakra. It just shows Tobi isn't Obito.
> 
> I laugh at the fact that people ignore that Tobi has wrinkles under his eyes and on his face.


Tobi has Hashiramas Dna so also his chakra, its no surprise that they cant recognize Obito's chakra which is merged with the powerfull Senju chakra...

And its a fact guys like you are so dumb that you dont realise its the rock which made the wrinkles appear. 
Theres even another fcking panel which shows his right side of his face which doesnt contain the wrinkles.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> You assume that's all there is. You don't know that for certain.



Oh please. We are not going to have a world shaking event that would make Obito spits on everything he respected happen offpanel with no one having ever heard of it.
We are going to have a Kakashi flashback about Rin's death. That chapter will be about as epic as the chapter when Nagato lost his dog.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> Kakashi has shown multiple times that he can tell who a person is just by their chakra. It just shows Tobi isn't Obito.
> 
> I laugh at the fact that people ignore that Tobi has wrinkles under his eyes and on his face.



yeah and he's hyperventilating now because he's Izuna.


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

if an uchiha who has MS replaces his eyes with another uchiha's eye, not his kin...what happens?  is it technically an EMS?


----------



## Rama (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> Kakashi has shown multiple times that he can tell who a person is just by their chakra. It just shows Tobi isn't Obito.
> 
> *I laugh at the fact that people ignore that Tobi has wrinkles under his eyes and on his face*.



Just one side of his face apparently, right side to be exact 

in this panel


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> Kakashi has shown multiple times that he can tell who a person is just by their chakra. It just shows Tobi isn't Obito.
> 
> I laugh at the fact that people ignore that Tobi has wrinkles under his eyes and on his face.



They don't appear to be wrinkles as they are uneven and random and his face is youthful not old.  

Kakashi doesn't sense chakra.  Kakashi can tell people by scent like Kiba can.  We don't know if he had that ability at 13 or would even remember Obito's scent after all this time.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> yeah and he's hyperventilating now because he's Izuna.



Nic you now what isn't an argument. He thinks he's Obito. He doesn't know for sure.


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 11, 2012)

There's really no point in arguing about this anylonger. Those who believe he's Obito will continue to do so and those like me who don't will do the same. At this point all possible arguments for and against have been made. Several times over.

If he does turn out to be Obito- in spirit as well as in body- I won't like it but it's not as if I was going to stop reading Naruto and who knows perhaps Kishi will have an explanation which will cover all those contradictions. And if he does turn out to be someone else I'll be satisfied, but this really isn't that big a deal that I would lord it over the Tobito crowd. Well not much XD.


----------



## Gabe (Aug 11, 2012)

kyuubi trying talk no jutsu nice


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

jgalt7 said:


> if an uchiha who has MS replaces his eyes with another uchiha's eye, not his kin...what happens?  is it technically an EMS?



It's possible but even between brothers it's rare that it works.  Only Sasuke and Madara have gotten it.

But Obito would have hell of a stash to try to get EMS with.


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

he's breathing heavily because his best friend's corpse been graverobed......


----------



## Voodoo chile (Aug 11, 2012)

I really don't know what to make of Tobi's speech to Kakashi... it sounds so personal, talking about regrets and all. He can't be Obito. Maybe he is his big brother, Tobito Uchiha. His desire being to take revenge on the ninja world for his brother's death.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Gabe said:


> kyuubi trying talk no jutsu nice



Lol, its pretty stupid considering it's coming from a former spirit of hate turned pokemon.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Aug 11, 2012)

I look forward to the damage control.


----------



## Ichiurto (Aug 11, 2012)

I don't know what's sadder - How boring this chapter appears (And how looooong Kishimoto is dragging this reveal out) and how long I wasted waiting for spoilers..

Or the Married guys who were waiting with me, while their wives were on a "girls night out" aka, getting pounded by some strange man in the bathroom of a club.

Oh well. I still like Izuna for Tobi!


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> he might have meant in the Kannabi bridge mission. And he got it, not found it.
> 
> Minato can recognize people by their chakra?
> 
> No seriously, though? Can he? I'm not really sure. I'd like a link before I speculate further on how it's still possible for him to be Obito even if he could sense his chakra.



Kakashi has shown the ability multiple times.. Minato couldn't recognize Tobi which is why Minato was caught off graud. I will try to find some links or reread the series.




First Tsurugi said:


> I believe he says he found it at the BATTLE of Kannabi bridge, not the bridge itself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No not Chakra nature. Remember Naruto recognized that Kakashi''s chakra vanished during the pein invasion.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> Kakashi has shown multiple times that he can tell who a person is just by their chakra. It just shows Tobi isn't Obito.
> 
> I laugh at the fact that people ignore that Tobi has wrinkles under his eyes and on his face.



i love the fact how people ignore those so called lack of wrinkles on the right side of his face in one shot while in the other they show the exact shot of the left face with those so called wrinkles (wait i mean scars. )? 

wait i love how people ignore those hero comments as they relate to the kakashi gaiden.

wait i love how people ignore the crack under tobi's right eye in his mask and its relationship to kakashi's scar

wait I love how people ignore the same hand gesture that tobi made that obito used as a kid. 

wait i love how people ignore the fact that tobi is a liar and that obito is a liar

wait i love how people ignore the fact that he just told kakashi to shut his mouth because he has a big one when he was told in the kakashi gaiden the exact same thingo

wait i love how people ignore the fact that obito entrusted kakashi with protection of Rin for his sake and that now he's ranting at not being able to entrust people with anything

wait i love how people ignore the fact that tobi is responsible for Minato's death when students are often responsible for their masters death in this manga.

should i keep going on?


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Ichiruto said:
			
		

> Oh well. I still like Izuna for Tobi!


Dude, you change your opinion like every day, lol.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> ?\_(ツ)_/?
> 
> That's your opinion.  To me it makes it more realistic when you have people be unreliable narrators like it is in real life.  It's kind of boring when you have people state something and it's always true.
> 
> I read the epic novels like Wheel of Time where you have to deal with unreliable narrators out of ignorance, over confidence, lairs etc.  I'm used to it.


Unreliable narrators can work as a plot device but I draw the line at the character _constantly_ lying. You should be given some measure of truth.

The real reason Tobi lies is to hide future plot twists. I doubt Kishi ever intended an unreliable narrator.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> Kakashi has shown the ability multiple times.. Minato couldn't recognize Tobi which is why Minato was caught off graud. I will try to find some links or reread the series.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Kakashi recognizes scent not chakra.  Him and his dogs summons smell like Kiba.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Dude, you change your opinion like every day, lol.


Says someone like you which used to do also. *Checking Tobis identity thread part xxx


----------



## Awesome (Aug 11, 2012)

Posters in this thread against Obito, summed up

"Tobi can't be Obito because it's bad writing! Kishi can't be that obvious! It would be bad writing!"

Along comes the Fourth.

And Kishi was never known for his great writing. At this stage in the manga, literally anything he makes Tobi is bad writing.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Aug 11, 2012)

jgalt7 said:


> he's breathing heavily because his best friend's corpse been graverobed......



So he took his eye when he was buried down in the ground it could work since Tobi has tons of sharingans but this eye is special now apart from all the other eyes.

No way Kishi would just hand wave forshadowing like that.


----------



## Ichiurto (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Dude, you change your opinion like every day, lol.



Obito = Tobi = Best Reveal, Lamest Followup Story.

Izuna = Tobi = Lame Reveal, High Potential Followup Story.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Lol, its pretty stupid considering it's coming from a former spirit of hate turned pokemon.



Not really, it highlights again how Naruto is special in that Tobi's moronic babbling does not apply to him.

Next, when you put it in the context that the bijjus were not initially hateful and that Naruto helped Kurama overcome his hate, Kurama highlighting Naruto is even more pertinent.

You are of course free to dismiss Kurama as a pokemon if you wish, it will do nothing to diminish his role in defeating the jokers of villains in this manga.


----------



## mlc818 (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Would you call RL terrorists or psychos killing people "misguided people"? Because the may work for some noble cause (noble only in their minds)?



Haven't you ever heard the saying "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter?" A psychopath would qualify as misguided due to whatever genetic or traumatic problem had led them to such a mindset.  Someone like Nagato, Itachi, or perhaps even Tobi, would qualify as misguided because while they say it as an issue of "the ends justifying the means," they had actually deluded themselves into either seeing only this one path (Nagato, Itachi, and Tobi) or into believing that the evil they caused was lesser than the evil they sought to avoid by taking such actions.(Nagato and Tobi) 

Ultimately Nagato and Itachi both saw the error in their ways, and they both martyred themselves in penance for those mistakes.  So many of the people in Naruto who have believed that the ends justify the means have been redeemed in their final battles.  

It isn't as if there aren't people in the real world willing to sacrifice their freedom for safety;  in addition, many kinds of addictions are due to the suffering party seeking to hide from the world, or numb the pain in their world.  Tobi's philosophy melds these two ideas, can fit in perfectly with a tragic past, and isn't really any more ridiculous than Madara seeking to unify the world through might or Nagato wanting peace via nuclear weapons.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Dude, you change your opinion like every day, lol.





loool3 said:


> Says someone like you which used to do also. *Checking Tobis identity thread part xxx



Ah, there's turbulence among the Tobito ranks.


----------



## Gabe (Aug 11, 2012)

i will wait till the mask comes off to say for sure who tobi is. cause knowing kishi he will end doing something unbelievable or not thought of before. red herring is a big possibility. kakashi hyperventilation another member of team 3 to do that sakura is the only one not to hyperventilate yet right?


----------



## ZiharkXVI (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> yeah and he's hyperventilating now because he's Izuna.



If its Obito's eye, that's enough to make Kakashi pause.  Plus, Tobi just reminded Kakashi that he couldn't save Rin or Obito.  Not pleasant thoughts, ya know.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:
			
		

> Unreliable narrators can work as a plot device but I draw the line at the character constantly lying. You should be given some measure of truth.


Of course there's some measure of truth. Tobi(Obito) is a character and should hold true to how his character is. We know he was posing as Madara. A very poetic way of paralleling how Naruto wanted to be someone other than a demon fox. Likewise, Madara's chakra was said to be more sinister than Kurama's symbolizing how obito is like a very sinister Naruto.



> The real reason Tobi lies is to hide future plot twists. I doubt Kishi ever intended an unreliable narrator.


Um. No. His character has been displayed as a liar.


----------



## Gabe (Aug 11, 2012)

either way i think next chapter or at 600 the mask comes off.

if it is tobi there better be some time traveling or it being madara the one who was behind the kyuubi attack.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> i love the fact how people ignore those so called lack of wrinkles on the right side of his face in one shot while in the other they show the exact shot of the left face with those so called wrinkles (wait i mean scars. )?



If you want to talk about wrinkles on his face you also have to explain why his eyes are exactly the same as Madara's.



> wait i love how people ignore those hero comments as they relate to the kakashi gaiden.



They relate to the whole manga.



> wait i love how people ignore the crack under tobi's right eye in his mask and its relationship to kakashi's scar



The cracks on Tobi's mask are inconsistent. They've come and gone and even change chapter to chapter.



> wait I love how people ignore the same hand gesture that tobi made that obito used as a kid.



Elaborate? 



> wait i love how people ignore the fact that tobi is a liar and that obito is a liar



Tobi is a liar because he's a manipulator and a villain.

Seriously, this parallel is a joke.



> wait i love how people ignore the fact that he just told kakashi to shut his mouth because he has a big one when he was told in the kakashi gaiden the exact same thingo



Or the fact that everyone ignores that Tobi knows everything about everyone.



> wait i love how people ignore the fact that obito entrusted kakashi with protection of Rin for his sake and that now he's ranting at not being able to entrust people with anything



Or the fact that Kishi has never given a fuck about romance and sure as hell isn't going to start now.

Or the fact that Izuna entrusted his eyes and life to his brother so that he could kill Hashirama. And he failed.



> wait i love how people ignore the fact that tobi is responsible for Minato's death when students are often responsible for their masters death in this manga.



If Kishi wants to keep up with this tiresome trope then so be it. It's gotten to the point where it's just embarrassingly cliche though. I can't see an author who respects himself using it AGAIN.


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

Matta Clatta said:


> So he took his eye when he was buried down in the ground it could work since Tobi has tons of sharingans but this eye is special now apart from all the other eyes.
> 
> No way Kishi would just hand wave forshadowing like that.



right....like the edo tenseis roaming around lately...........


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

ZiharkXVI said:


> If its Obito's eye, that's enough to make Kakashi pause.  Plus, Tobi just reminded Kakashi that he couldn't save Rin or Obito.  Not pleasant thoughts, ya know.



must why he only started laughing hysterically after tobi's rant than before it when he knew it was obito's eye?


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

daschysta said:


> Except he hasn't confirmed it, just implied it. To a younger child or preteen it very well may not be nearly as obvious. He hasn't confirmed it.
> 
> Narratively Obito would be much more interesting than someone with no real connection to any character, and who wasn't shown in the manga at all up to this point.
> 
> ...



As of now it can be either Obito or Izuna, and the story wouldn't lose anything as long as Kishi could connect the dots fully afterwards.  

It can still be Izuna with Obito's eye and Kishi could still have impact on the readers regarding all the hints towards it being Obito.  Izuna having Obito's power and using it for malicious purposes is a disgrace to Obito's ideals.  Izuna being Madara's brother, their ideals are challenging the will of fire that flowed within Obito, and kakashi, and Naruto.

You forget that Rikudou's will flowed thru the younger son, thru Hashirama, to Sarutobi, to Jiraiya, to Nagato, back to Jiraiya, who passed it to Minato, who passed it to his students Kakashi and Obito, and Kakashi/Jiraiya passed to Naruto.  They're all linked through the generations, Izuna and Madara and Sasuke are challenging that will, while Itachi and Obito protected it.  

Izuna having Obito's eye is still in the running IMO.  Obito's eye power is special and powerful, just obito's eye alone being used by Tobi still makes obito relevant without having him become the villian.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Melas said:


> Not really, it highlights again how Naruto is special in that Tobi's moronic babbling does not apply to him.
> 
> Next, when you put it in the context that the bijjus were not initially hateful and that Naruto helped Kurama overcome his hate, Kurama highlighting Naruto is even more pertinent.
> 
> You are of course free to dismiss Kurama as a pokemon if you wish, it will do nothing to diminish his role in defeating the jokers of villains in this manga.



I think it's kind of lame that Naruto tamed his inner demon than conquered it.  Kurama's help was self preservation and attempts corrupt Naruto to take his body.  

And the Bijuu were originally 10 tailed demon which was an evil enough bastard that SoSP put his body in the moon and split his chakra.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Ichiruto said:
			
		

> Obito = Tobi = Best Reveal, Lamest Followup Story.


Hm? Don't you think it would be very interesting to see how Obito became like this?



> Izuna = Tobi = Lame Reveal, High Potential Followup Story.


it would be boring. "Yeah, I faked my death and i'm working with Madara." There's your long awaited backstory.


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

tobi pretending to be obito.....it's not like tobi hasn't pretended to be someone else before....oh wait...nevermind.


----------



## Russo (Aug 11, 2012)

Crazy idea:


*Spoiler*: __ 



*Tobi is Kakashi from another dimension.*

Its kakashi's year after all..


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:
			
		

> Says someone like you which used to do also. *Checking Tobis identity thread part xxx


What the hell are you talking about?


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Uh yeah.

Let's pretend to be Obito infront of Kakashi.

Fuck, why didn't I pretend to be Itachi infront of Sasuke?

lol post some more non-sense please.


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Hm? Don't you think it would be very interesting to see how Obito became like this?
> 
> it would be boring. "Yeah, I faked my death and i'm working with Madara." There's your long awaited backstory.



death fakers, those brothers, i tell ya, lol.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Kakashi recognizes scent not chakra.  Him and his dogs summons smell like Kiba.



You do know that both Kakashi and Obito sensed that Rin was in that cave..


And they sensed that enemies were coming.


----------



## ZiharkXVI (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> must why he only started laughing hysterically after tobi's rant than before it when he knew it was obito's eye?



Actually, I think there might be a bit of a translation issue there.  You might want to reign it back till the chapter, my friend.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

User said:
			
		

> tobi pretending to be obito.....it's not like tobi hasn't pretended to be someone else before....oh wait...nevermind.


Why would he pretend to be Obito? Especially this late in the game?


----------



## Gabe (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Hm? Don't you think it would be very interesting to see how Obito became like this?
> 
> *it would be boring. "Yeah, I faked my death and i'm working with Madara." There's your long awaited backstory.*



no it will be more like madara knew how to release himself out of edo tensei because he did it in the past to revive izuna. better explains 2 things. who tobi is and why madara knew how to release edo tensei


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> Uh yeah.
> 
> Let's pretend to be Obito infront of Kakashi.
> 
> ...



no one fakes itachi.....

besides, sasuke just killed itachi when tobi took him, kinda retarded....


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi used Madara's name because it's feared among the shinobi world. That is all.


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Why would he pretend to be Obito? Especially this late in the game?



why does he still have his mask on so late in the game?


----------



## Grendel (Aug 11, 2012)

jgalt7 said:


> tobi pretending to be obito.....it's not like tobi hasn't pretended to be someone else before....oh wait...nevermind.



What possible reason would he have to pretend to be him?


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> Tobi used Madara's name because it's feared among the shinobi world. That is all.



by your own argument, so was itachi.....but hey....you brought it up.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Of course there's some measure of truth. Tobi(Obito) is a character and should hold true to how his character is. We know he was posing as Madara. A very poetic way of paralleling how Naruto wanted to be someone other than a demon fox. Likewise, Madara's chakra was said to be more sinister than Kurama's symbolizing how obito is like a very sinister Naruto.


From a writing perspective I wish Tobi had never posed as Madara. It would make things easier to understand and avoid this constant bickering about lies.



> Um. No. His character has been displayed as a liar.


Which is shit if you can't determine the truth. I sincerely hope Tobi's backstory is a good one, or the arguments will continue long after his reveal.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> I think it's kind of lame that Naruto tamed his inner demon than conquered it.  Kurama's help was self preservation and attempts corrupt Naruto to take his body.
> 
> And the Bijuu were originally 10 tailed demon which was an evil enough bastard that SoSP put his body in the moon and split his chakra.



Naruto conquered it initially when he pulled out Kurama's chakra and then the two resolved their differences. Cooperation is better than subjugation, wouldn't you say?

Could you elaborate the second sentence? I am not certain what you wish to convey.

As for the Juubi, who knows? We thought the bijuus were fundamentally evil and found otherwise. Lets wait to take a call on the Juubi. Even otherwise, the nine bijuus have Juubui's chakra, not its will, presumably that comes from the RS. Do you believe the bijuus were intrinsically evil?


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

Grendel said:


> What possible reason would he have to pretend to be him?



kakashi is shaking....why do you think.....?  the guy who can hurt him is shaking......

that's why?


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

> =PikaCheeka;44105503]If you want to talk about wrinkles on his face you also have to explain why his eyes are exactly the same as Madara's.


funny because they are exactly like Obito's in quite a few shots.  It's not like Kishi has a million different eyebrow drawing for his charcters. 



> They relate to the whole manga.


no this hero theme has never been as pronounced as it is between Obito and Tobi. 




> The cracks on Tobi's mask are inconsistent. They've come and gone and even change chapter to chapter.


actually there's been a lot of consistency with them especially on frontal panels where it's easier to draw them. 




> Elaborate?


the soldier acknowledgment gesture? it's not hard to see which one i'm talking about it's been spammed all over this thread.  




> Tobi is a liar because he's a manipulator and a villain.


actually no, this lying theme is far more apparent and consistent with his character than any other villain in this manga. 


> Seriously, this parallel is a joke.



why? because the exact same words are used?  because he just had a whole rant about kakashi's words being full of nothing? 



> Or the fact that everyone ignores that Tobi knows everything about everyone.


yeah it's not like Madara could have told him a lot of things, or the Uchiha tablet, or wait zetsu right? 




> Or the fact that Kishi has never given a fuck about romance and sure as hell isn't going to start now.



which is why he won't stop with the freaken naruhina and narusaku pairings in this manga? 
this isn't one piece. 


> Or the fact that Izuna entrusted his eyes and life to his brother so that he could kill Hashirama. And he failed.


because i should take madara's word face value. 



> If Kishi wants to keep up with this tiresome trope then so be it. It's gotten to the point where it's just embarrassingly cliche though. I can't see an author who respects himself using it AGAIN.


[/QUOTE]

if you don't like it that's your right, but i think it makes the manga far more interesting than some random character we have no connection to.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Russo said:


> Crazy idea:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Tobi is Kakashi from an alternate dimension, where the rock initially crushed Obito's left side, instead of his right.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

ZiharkXVI said:


> Actually, I think there might be a bit of a translation issue there.  You might want to reign it back till the chapter, my friend.



yeah must be really hard to translate hahahahaha


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Someone who lacks hatred(common sense) said:
			
		

> why does he still have his mask on so late in the game?


He's shy.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> What the hell are you talking about?


You know what i mean lol. 
You even switched yesterday supporting Tobi is Obito's father, im 99% sure it was your post.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> it would be boring. "Yeah, I faked my death and i'm working with Madara." There's your long awaited backstory.



And Obito would be different from this vague comment how?


Izuna died because he gave his eyes to Madara, entrusting that he'd kill Hashirama and protect the clan. Instead the clan failed Madara, and Madara failed Izuna. Izuna basically died entrusting something to Madara, and Madara, who was a hero in his eyes once, fucked it up. It makes far more sense, as Izuna had inclinations towards both good and evil to begin with. It would explain a lot.

And it could also mean a turn-around that isn't just TnJ and suicide. It could go Tobi versus Madara. I don't know how I feel about it but if Tobi is Izuna, I suppose it's possible.


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> He's shy.



lol...good game, you win.....


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Melas said:


> What else is one supposed to do with ones inner demons if not conquer them? Could you elaborate the second sentence? I am not certain what you wish to convey.
> 
> As for the Juubi, who knows? We thought the bijuus were fundamentally evil and found otherwise. Lets wait to take a call on the Juubi. Even otherwise, the nine bijuus have Juubui's chakra, not its will, presumably that comes from the RS. Do you believe the bijuus were intrinsically evil?



Conquer his inner demon would have made for a better story than to be new found butt buddies.  

You said Kurama was helping Naruto beat villans and I was saying that most of the time it was self perservation and/or corruption of Naruto.  Then he suddenly has a 180.  Drops being an evil demon and Naruto forgives that he kills his parents and they're best friends.


----------



## Grendel (Aug 11, 2012)

jgalt7 said:


> kakashi is shaking....why do you think.....?  the guy who can hurt him is shaking......
> 
> that's why?



His reveal is coming soon it would be pointless for kishi to have him pretend at this point...


----------



## Shrike (Aug 11, 2012)

Lol, who cares about the identity, this guy is spamming MS like it doesn't cost any chakra. How does he not go blind?


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 11, 2012)

You used to be so badass, Kyuubi. 

loling at the incoming Tobito wank.


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> yeah must be really hard to translate hahahahaha


Kakashi sounds "ハアハア" or "haa haa", meaning he's breathing heavily.  Guy follows up and asks if Kakashi is all right.


----------



## αshɘs (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> yeah must be really hard to translate hahahahaha



the 'hahahaha' part might be panting, like in this case


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

Spike_Shrike said:


> Lol, who cares about the identity, this guy is spamming MS like it doesn't cost any chakra. How does he not go blind?



that's been my point that keeps getting ignored...if the jutsu is MS, he's been spamming it for 16 years......

only explanation is an uchiha who used to have a MS and replaces his eyes with another's, not of kin........we have two blind candidates, but given tobi's knowledge, it's most likely izuna, taking on obito's eye.


----------



## Gabe (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Conquer his inner demon would have made for a better story than to be new found butt buddies.
> 
> You said Kurama was helping Naruto beat villans and I was saying that most of the time it was self perservation and/or corruption of Naruto.  Then he suddenly has a 180.  Drops being an evil demon and Naruto forgives that he kills his parents and they're best friends.



actually tobi was responsible for most of the peoples deaths during the invasion. it took what 570 for it to happen it was not in an instant. so dont see any problem with this.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 11, 2012)

mlc818 said:


> Haven't you ever heard the saying "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter?" A psychopath would qualify as misguided due to whatever genetic or traumatic problem had led them to such a mindset.  Someone like Nagato, Itachi, or perhaps even Tobi, would qualify as misguided because while they say it as an issue of "the ends justifying the means," they had actually deluded themselves into either seeing only this one path (Nagato, Itachi, and Tobi) or into believing that the evil they caused was lesser than the evil they sought to avoid by taking such actions.(Nagato and Tobi)
> 
> Ultimately Nagato and Itachi both saw the error in their ways, and they both martyred themselves in penance for those mistakes.  So many of the people in Naruto who have believed that the ends justify the means have been redeemed in their final battles.
> 
> It isn't as if there aren't people in the real world willing to sacrifice their freedom for safety;  in addition, many kinds of addictions are due to the suffering party seeking to hide from the world, or numb the pain in their world.  Tobi's philosophy melds these two ideas, can fit in perfectly with a tragic past, and isn't really any more ridiculous than Madara seeking to unify the world through might or Nagato wanting peace via nuclear weapons.



Yay I'm rooting for Tobi the freedom fighter (didn't he want to rip people out of their free will and put under mind-control?). He should wipe the floor with Naruto & Co. all the way.

No amount of person's pain justifies the killing of innocent people. It may be understandable, but not justified.

Tobi's reasons (Obito's) are... coz he is mad because Rin died 
No war trauma (like Nagato), nor mind rape and killing of whole family (like Sasuke). Nope, he went nuts, because Kakashi couldn't keep his promise. Killed his sensei, Kushina, his comrades, coz Kakashi couldn't keep his promise... Tortured and murdered people in Kiri, coz Kakashi couldn't keep his promise. To explain all of this with simple "misguiding" is laughable. 

Tobi enjoys seeing people die/getting killed: this is pure evil.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Spike_Shrike said:


> Lol, who cares about the identity, this guy is spamming MS like it doesn't cost any chakra. How does he not go blind?


EMS?

If Tobi is Obito would it be possible for him to get that? Much tougher requirements.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Spike_Shrike said:


> Lol, who cares about the identity, this guy is spamming MS like it doesn't cost any chakra. How does he not go blind?



He has a stash of eyes.  There's a good chance he found one compatible enough to give him EMS.  He could have had a brother for all we know.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:
			
		

> You know what i mean lol.
> You even switched yesterday supporting Tobi is Obito's father, im 99% sure it was your post.


I never said I thought he was his father. Where are you getting this from? I only addressed the fact that Sutol said that Obito HAS no father, which is the most complete denial of common sense I've ever read.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Easley said:


> EMS?
> 
> If Tobi is Obito would it be possible for him to get that? Much tougher requirements.


Pretty much.
Perhaps Shisui is really his brother and thats why he wanted his eye? 
And dont be surprised if Tobi suddenly gets the backdraw effect of the MS after he revealed it, its most likely Kishi didnt wanted to reveal his MS yet thats why he couldnt also show his backward effect perhaps?


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> I never said I thought he was his father. Where are you getting this from? I only addressed the fact that Sutol said that Obito HAS no father, which is the most complete denial of common sense I've ever read.



You misunderstood.

I never said Obito has no father, he obviously had one. 

Only that Kishi never addressed his father or brother.

And loool3 is right.

You switched sides yesterday because of Evil. So don't dare say any other word.

Traitor.


----------



## Ichiurto (Aug 11, 2012)

αshɘs said:


> the 'hahahaha' part might be panting, like in this case



What a sad, sad part of the Manga that travesty was.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Conquer his inner demon would have made for a better story than to be new found butt buddies.
> 
> You said Kurama was helping Naruto beat villans and I was saying that most of the time it was self perservation and/or corruption of Naruto.  Then he suddenly has a 180.  Drops being an evil demon and Naruto forgives that he kills his parents and they're best friends.



Unfortunately for you, this story is all about "butt buddies". As for a better story, that's a subjective opinion and I have nothing to say on it.

Dropping being an evil demon is the point. Initially, when Kurama was still under the clutches of hate, he worked to corrupt Naruto and only helped out of self preservation. Over time, the relationship evolved to the current stage where he works together with Naruto.

As for Naruto forgiving, that's his MO. He does not believe in revenge, that's for other, more shallow characters.

Presumably, the bijuus were not evil. They were corrupted and Naruto helped them overcome that, which is why they all believe that the RS was talking about him. What's the issue here?


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> You misunderstood.
> 
> I never said Obito has no father, he obviously had one.
> 
> Only that Kishi never addressed his father or brother.


hahaha


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Kakashi sounds "ハアハア" or "haa haa", meaning he's breathing heavily.  Guy follows up and asks if Kakashi is all right.



ok then, but what difference does it make in context? in one he's panicking in the other he's gone crazy. Neither are unexpected.


----------



## ZiharkXVI (Aug 11, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Kakashi sounds "ハアハア" or "haa haa", meaning he's breathing heavily.  Guy follows up and asks if Kakashi is all right.



Thank you.  I knew I wasn't completely crazy.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Pretty much.
> Perhaps Shisui is really his brother and thats why he wanted his eye?
> And dont be surprised if Tobi suddenly gets the backdraw effect of the MS after he revealed it, its most likely Kishi didnt wanted to reveal his MS yet thats why he couldnt also show his backward effect perhaps?



It also be his Senju DNA.  We know it has positive effects on MS usage but we don't know if it prevents blindness.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> This thread is so entertaining to read.
> 
> Kurama is so pathetic. Naruto and him should have started having some common ground since part I, his total turn in what amounts to one day in-universe fucking sucks.



Yeah, it's pretty sad :/


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Pretty much.
> Perhaps Shisui is really his brother and thats why he wanted his eye?
> And dont be surprised if Tobi suddenly gets the backdraw effect of the MS after he revealed it, its most likely Kishi didnt wanted to reveal his MS yet thats why he couldnt also show his backward effect perhaps?



that did cross my mind, but the backstory is just not there...but then again, the "naruto's parents were well known shinobi but apparently no one in the village knew" was done, so highly conceivable.....


----------



## Hexa (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> ok then, but what difference does it make in context?


Well, it's the same end.  Either way, Kakashi is probably thinking that Tobi is Obito and is having a bit of a breakdown because of it.  He's not having a breakdown by laughing crazily, though.

Doesn't mean that Tobi is actually Obito, but it's definitely not something to discourage Obitobi believers.


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

regardless....we will see kyuubi mode again, i think....next week....woot woot...


----------



## Octavian (Aug 11, 2012)

another question that seems pertinent:

if tobi is obito and has a MS similar to kakashi's kamui, then how is he able to spam it with  impunity...

wouldn't he need EMS for that?

or is kishi gonna go with his usual explanation that hashi's cells made it possible.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Octavian said:


> another question that seems pertinent:
> 
> if tobi is obito and has a MS similar to kakashi's kamui, then how is he able to spam it with  impunity...
> 
> wouldn't he need EMS for that?



EMS or Senju is the likely answer.  Senju is ninja human growth hormone.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Octavian said:


> another question that seems pertinent:
> 
> if tobi is obito and has a MS similar to kakashi's kamui, then how is he able to spam it with  impunity...
> 
> wouldn't he need EMS for that?



Doesn't Tobi have some potent Senju DNA? Presumably, that helps diminish the deterioration of the MS.

It seems you already answered yourself. Its apparent that little can match Hashi's DNA, well save for Minato's seed, but comparison with the hero is unfair.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:
			
		

> You misunderstood.
> 
> I never said Obito has no father, he obviously had one.
> 
> Only that Kishi never addressed his father or brother.


Oh, okay. I should have thought of that, lol.



> And loool3 is right.
> 
> You switched sides yesterday because of Evil. So don't dare say any other word.
> 
> Traitor.


No I didn't. I was just saying things that could have plausibly happened. I never said that they were what was likely to be the case. I never actually thought he was Obito's father. That would be stupid, lol.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> It also be his Senju DNA.  We know it has positive effects on MS usage but we don't know if it prevents blindness.



you didn't reply to my earlier post..


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Melas said:


> Unfortunately for you, this story is all about "butt buddies". As for a better story, that's a subjective opinion and I have nothing to say on it.
> 
> Dropping being an evil demon is the point. Initially, when Kurama was still under the clutches of hate, he worked to corrupt Naruto and only helped out of self preservation. Over time, the relationship evolved to the current stage where he works together with Naruto.
> 
> ...



It happened way to fast and for almost no reason.


----------



## Brain Slug (Aug 11, 2012)

Okay, for real.  3500 posts just this week?

Holy shit.


----------



## Kobe (Aug 11, 2012)

“Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War 



Yet another chess move by Tobi. He realized that Kakashi solved his trick and enemy can hurt him now, he striked back by directly attacking to Kakashi's weakness, his biggest regret.. and it worked. Kakashi's done.


----------



## Awesome (Aug 11, 2012)

It doesn't seem to be an MS jutsu, but instead an eye related ability not exclusive to MS. Kamui and his ST jutsu aren't the same ability, but different abilities sharing the same dimension. It's not crazy to assume it isn't an MS jutsu. If its not that, it's because of the Senju DNA he has. (zetsu)

Want to know the real answer? Tobi's jutsu being an MS jutsu would require him to use MS, which would give away the fact that its Obito's sharingan.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> You do know that both Kakashi and Obito sensed that Rin was in that cave..
> 
> 
> And they sensed that enemies were coming.



Well obviously Obito can see Rin's chakra.  Kakashi is strictly a smell sensor and I don't know if he had that ability then.  It could have just been instincts it's not clear.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Oh, okay. I should have thought of that, lol.
> 
> No I didn't. I was just saying things that could have plausible happened. I never said that they were what was likely to be the case. I never actually thought he was Obito's father. That would be stupid, lol.





But you leant more credibility to the theory that Tobi is someone who just happened to find and steal Obito's eyeball, courtesy of Evil's picture, thus eliminating the possibility that he's Obito.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> No I didn't. I was just saying things that could have plausibly happened. I never said that they were what was likely to be the case. I never actually thought he was Obito's father. That would be stupid, lol.


I actually meant ur posts about supporting elder/younger son, Kagami, Obito, and switching from each other daily in the Tobis identity thread part xx but it doesnt matter lol.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> It happened way to fast and for almost no reason.



Reason is Naruto himself and presumably the change occurred over his lifespan. Just because Kurama didn't signal his change does not mean he was not changing gradually.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Well obviously Obito can see Rin's chakra.  Kakashi is strictly a smell sensor and I don't know if he had that ability then.  It could have just been instincts it's not clear.



Obito didn't activate his sharingan until after they found out that Rin was in the cave.


----------



## forkandspoon (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi uses space time jutsu just like kakashi and looks exactly like a grown up Obito... it would be kishi trolling for Tobi to be anyone but Obito... which is why I don't get the majority of people on this forum not believing that Tobi = Obito.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 11, 2012)

Melas said:


> Reason is Naruto himself and presumably the change occurred over his lifespan. Just because Kurama didn't signal his change does not mean he was not changing gradually.



Just because we didn't see Kakashi wearing a thong, doesn't mean it didn't happen! 

The only reason Kyuubi wanted Naruto alive before this stupid conversion was because his life depended on it. There's was no gradual change, it came out of fucking nowhere.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> I actually meant ur posts about supporting elder/younger son, Kagami, Obito, and switching from each other daily in the Tobis identity thread part xx but it doesnt matter lol.



What I didn't know this.

He changes sides far too much that ObitoUchiha. 

He better stick to one this time. 

Or else..


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

NarutoLuffy said:


> Obito didn't activate his sharingan until after they found out that Rin was in the cave.



If that's the case they found them through plot.  Though Obito if Tobi does have a way of finding people no matter where they run.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:
			
		

> But you leant more credibility to the theory that Tobi is someone who just happened to find and steal Obito's eyeball, courtesy of Evil's picture, thus eliminating the possibility that he's Obito.


I was acknowledging the fact that it seemed like a possibility, but I still thought of Obito as being the most likely.

Anyways, this is getting way off topic, lol.



			
				loool3 said:
			
		

> I actually meant ur posts about supporting elder/younger son, Kagami, Obito, and switching from each other daily in the Tobis identity thread part xx but it doesnt matter lol.


That was back then. I've been set on only Obito for about 3 months now.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

forkandspoon said:


> Tobi uses space time jutsu just like kakashi and looks exactly like a grown up Obito... it would be kishi trolling for Tobi to be anyone but Obito... which is why I don't get the majority of people on this forum not believing that Tobi = Obito.



It's because of human nature.  The theory has been shot down so much that people refuse to want to be wrong.


----------



## Crimson Flam3s (Aug 11, 2012)

So does anyone know when we would be getting the chapter?


----------



## Tony Lou (Aug 11, 2012)

KiShiDo said:


> To 99,9 % it is Obito... If someone is using his eye instead it would be shit in my eyes. Still a few things have to be explained like the Kyuubi attack and why Obito suddenly looked like a grown man while Kakashi and Co still looked like mid teens



As far as I know, corpses don't age.

And don't tell me he survived the rocks, his body received a burial afterwards.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> If that's the case they found them through plot.  Though Obito if Tobi does have a way of finding people no matter where they run.



Then Obito and Kakashi sensed the enemy ninjas were coming when obito was crushed by that rock.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Luiz said:


> As far as I know, corpses don't age.
> 
> And don't tell me he survived the rocks, his body received a burial afterwards.


His eye did but his body didn't? 
Even the panel clearly showed us that his head wasnt crushed.


----------



## Tony Lou (Aug 11, 2012)

Just as always, Naruto can't offer a real counter argument when a villain questions him.

Only empty cheesy lines.



loool3 said:


> His eye did but his body didn't?
> Even the panel clearly showed us that his head wasnt crushed.



His eye did?

Half of it was.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> So does anyone know when we would be getting the chapter?



Nope. **


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> There's really no point in arguing about this anylonger. Those who believe he's Obito will continue to do so and those like me who don't will do the same. At this point all possible arguments for and against have been made. Several times over.
> 
> If he does turn out to be Obito- in spirit as well as in body- I won't like it but it's not as if I was going to stop reading Naruto and who knows perhaps Kishi will have an explanation which will cover all those contradictions. And if he does turn out to be someone else I'll be satisfied, but this really isn't that big a deal that I would lord it over the Tobito crowd. Well not much XD.



I do agree with all of this.

Philozophical positions are good to me.


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Luiz said:


> Just as always, Naruto can't offer a real counter argument when a villain questions him.
> 
> Only empty cheesy lines.



Yeah.

How many times has he blabbered that his dream is to become Hokage now? What kind of answer is that? 

It's getting increasingly annoying.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

A fool said:
			
		

> As far as I know, corpses don't age.
> 
> And don't tell me he survived the rocks, his body received a burial afterwards.


Stop denying Tobito!


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

Luiz said:


> Just as always, Naruto can't offer a real counter argument when a villain questions him.
> 
> Only empty cheesy lines.



Dat moment when Pain had him pinned and wordless.
The ninja known for his big mouth and TnJ was lost for words.
Priceless.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Stop denying Tobito!



Why is Tobito's theory that important to you guyz?

I want to understand you before judge you...


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Just because we didn't see Kakashi wearing a thong, doesn't mean it didn't happen!
> 
> The only reason Kyuubi wanted Naruto alive before this stupid conversion was because his life depended on it. There's was no gradual change, it came out of fucking nowhere.



I have no interest in Kakashi's choice of attire, one way or another. Moronic analogies aside, we don't see people train for their power-ups, does that mean they did not train?

How did Kurama's life depend on helping Naruto? Don't bijuus revive after an interval when there hosts die? Moreover, he would be free, so why help Naruto? Even so, as I have explained previously, just because Kurama had one attitude before means nothing.

I have already stated my opinion about any external signs of change. Who cares if it "came out of fucking nowhere" to you? If you require emotional transformation to be explicit, that's your problem.


----------



## Tony Lou (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> Yeah.
> 
> How many times has he blabbered that his dream is to become Hokage now? What kind of answer is that?
> 
> It's getting increasingly annoying.



Either that, or saying that /Minato Jiraiya trusted him therefore he'll succeed.

Naruto's philosophy is shallow.

At least Nagato reached his conclusion through observation of human history and war. It was more solid.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Stop denying Tobito!



Until the end, bro.


----------



## Ichiurto (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> Yeah.
> 
> How many times has he blabbered that his dream is to become Hokage now? What kind of answer is that?
> 
> It's getting increasingly annoying.



Everything about Nardo is annoying. He's a shit character.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Luiz said:


> Just as always, Naruto can't offer a real counter argument when a villain questions him.
> 
> Only empty cheesy lines.



I wasn't aware moronic babbling deserved a reply save a dismissal.


----------



## Menacing Eyes (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> Why is Tobito's theory that important to you guyz?
> 
> I want to understand you before judge you...


Because a good bit of them have been picked on for believing in their theory, people dismissed it, people laughed at them for it. They want it to be true because it will prove them right and give them a reason to go "I told you so". It's understandable.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

The average simple minded Tobito hater said:
			
		

> His eye did?


If you still are saying Tobi's right eye isn't obito's then you, my friend, are in the highest state of denial.



> Half of it was.


Take another look. Also, how the hell would he be anle to still be alive, let alone talk, if half of his head was crushed? Use common sense, please.


----------



## Tony Lou (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> If you still are saying Tobi's right eye isn't obito's then you, my friend, are in the highest state of denial.
> 
> Take another look. Also, how the hell would he be anle to still be alive, let alone talk, if half of his head was crushed? Use common sense, please.



That's the point. He isn't.


----------



## Grendel (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> Why is Tobito's theory that important to you guyz?
> 
> I want to understand you before judge you...



Probably because it has been pretty heavily attacked for years...

I never understood the hate for it though I never really supported it then


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

kishi: "oh hey, im totally going to reveal that tobi's eye is obito's...only to finally make the ground breaking reveal at 600...that he is obito."


----------



## Gunners (Aug 11, 2012)

Deadway said:


> When Minato saves Obito from the stone guy
> Minato: Never let your guard down!
> 
> When Minato strikes Tobi with Hiraishin
> Tobi: I should have never let my guard down.



As soon as he finished the sentence Minato stabbed him again. 

That being said, Tobi is on a verbal rampage. I'm starting to think that he is a combination of many dead Uchiha. His statements towards Kakashi have too much bitter but at the same time there are things he knows and things he has done that are before Obito's time.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> kishi: "oh hey, im totally going to reveal that tobi's eye is obito's...only to finally make the ground breaking reveal at 600...that he is obito."



lol.


----------



## God of Turmoil (Aug 11, 2012)

You Tobito people are ridiculous. 

Tobi clearly stated he STOLE the eye from obitos corpse. Obito was a kid. We saw how young Kakashi and Gai were in the yondaime flashback, where Tobi was clearly a grown man. Not to mention that there is no bloody motive for Obito to act as Tobi did.


----------



## Octavian (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> kishi: "oh hey, im totally going to reveal that tobi's eye is obito's...only to finally make the ground breaking reveal at 600...that he is obito."



kishi is trying to reach kubo troll lvls. at this point, you can't trust his sanity


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

ero_luffy said:
			
		

> Why is Tobito's theory that important to you guyz?
> 
> I want to understand you before judge you...


Well, for me, it's the fact that Tobi being obito would give reason to sympathize with his character. I like sympathetic characters and tobi's my favorite character, so yeah.

There's also that he was an exact parallel to Naruto and an Uchiha and so an evil Obito would be the exact opposite to Naruto, basically like  a Sasuke version of Naruto, and would be the fallen friend of his sensei. So Naruto beating Obito would perfectly complete the theme of the new generation surpassing the previous.

it just fits with the established themes in the story and would fit so nicely if it was him. Would give the manga alot more meaning than if he was izuna or Kagami or whoever.

I also think it would be very interesting to see how he became like this.

Anyway, just my opinion.



			
				Menacing Eyes said:
			
		

> Because a good bit of them have been picked on for believing in their theory, people dismissed it, people laughed at them for it. They want it to be true because it will prove them right and give them a reason to go "I told you so". It's understandable.


That's not really it for me, but that is a small part and would be very fun. Especially all the shitstorms.


----------



## Grendel (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> kishi: "oh hey, im totally going to reveal that tobi's eye is obito's...only to finally make the ground breaking reveal at 600...that he is obito."



This chapter wasn't just about his eye though...kakashi now thinks its obito not just the eye...


----------



## mlc818 (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Yay I'm rooting for Tobi the freedom fighter (didn't he want to rip people out of their free will and put under mind-control?). He should wipe the floor with Naruto & Co. all the way.
> 
> No amount of person's pain justifies the killing of innocent people. It may be understandable, but not justified.
> 
> ...




To say that someone is "pure evil" is rather childish thinking.  People have various reasons for their actions, and can often even mislead themselves to ignore their own flaws. This is fiction, but if it has any realistic connection to the real world, then the only "pure evil" is the Juubi, and even that has been separated into small parts that have feelings and evoke sympathy.

Also you should be able to see from my post that I wasn't calling Tobi a freedom fighter, but rather using the common saying as an example of how someone can find seemingly good reasons to justify (to themselves) some horrible action. No one is seeking to morally justify the villains' choices; in fact it's the exact opposite, as Naruto (and Kishi) is arguing that the villains are making mistakes and should turn to peace.

Tobi has so much pain from the world that he thinks it can never exist without great suffering, and believes that a peaceful illusion with no actual freedom is preferable to a world with freedom but also suffering. And to argue that Obito experienced no trauma from the war is ridiculous... all we know is that he "died" in war, at a young age.   You can argue against Obito all you want, but there are no other candidates presently that are any more likely than Obito.  Who is even a possibility?  Izuna, Shisui, Madara clone, RS, RS's son, Zetsu, time traveling Sasuke... 
None of these characters have more relation to the main character and the themes of the manga than Obito.  

But honestly the more Kishi hints at it being Obito's eye, the less certain it seems that Obito will be the ultimate reveal.  Of course given his target age group and generally fairly obvious plot twists, it's not impossible.

But the point ultimately is that there are very many people in the real world who do things that we would consider essentially evil, while believing that their actions are righteous, or at the very least justified by the situation.  

 It's kind of like Itachi having been working for Konoha the whole time;  do his actions make complete sense? no, but Kishi explained them by saying that an Uchiha coup and world war were inevitable from Itachi's perspective.  Kishi will have an explanation for why Tobi hates the world so much that he wants to essentially erase it by ending all free will, and it will be plausible if a bit crazy no matter who Tobi ultimately is.  I'll admit that Tobi seems to be far more twisted than Obito should be given what we know of his past, but the present mountain of evidence implies Obito more than any of the other options.  Especially the goal of a massive illusion for peace implies a complicated and tragic motivation, which Madara and Izuna basically lack.  RS or his sons are implausible for similar reasons as any time traveling character, though obviously not impossible.  And an unintroduced or one mention character would be a massive troll after all the hints at the secret of his identity.

But no matter who Tobi is, he's definitely a psychopath.  He kills nonchalantly, had several extremely evil "eye" panels, and repeatedly tries to trigger disasters in order to take complete control of the world and essentially enslave everyone.  These aren't morally justifiable or even intelligent actions for anyone to take, so I wouldn't say that the evil he displays makes any particular possibility likely.  Other than maybe the Juubi, if it really is a representation of all the malice in the world (Which is often why I thought Tobi could be a play on "to" "bi" for "ten" "tail" in possession of some Uchiha body)


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

X Itachi X said:


> lol.


597: OH HEY, TOBI'S EYE IS OBITO'S, YOU KNOW!

598: *kakashi passes out*

599: fighting, and then...the mask breaks...and then...and then and then and then...

*drum rolls*


600: tobi is obito.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

God of Turmoil said:
			
		

> You Tobito people are ridiculous.
> 
> Tobi clearly stated he STOLE the eye from obitos corpse. Obito was a kid. We saw how young Kakashi and Gai were in the yondaime flashback, where Tobi was clearly a grown man. Not to mention that there is no bloody motive for Obito to act as Tobi did.


Cool story, bro.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

> kishi: "oh hey, im totally going to reveal that tobi's eye is obito's...only to finally make the ground breaking reveal at 600...that he is obito."





X Itachi X said:


> lol.



Lol, I thought the rant was enough of a reveal.  I think the mask is just confirmation and will likely happen next chapter.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 11, 2012)

Melas said:


> I have no interest in Kakashi's choice of attire, one way or another. Moronic analogies aside, we don't see people train for their power-ups, does that mean they did not train?



It means that they have shitty power ups as the plot demands it. Naruto is the shining champion in this.



Melas said:


> How did Kurama's life depend on helping Naruto? Don't bijuus revive after an interval when there hosts die? Moreover, he would be free, so why help Naruto? Even so, as I have explained previously, just because Kurama had one attitude before means nothing.



Don't blame me for Kishimoto being inconsistent. In part 1 Kyuubi saved Naruto's life because he was worried about his own, not because he secretly liked him. 



Melas said:


> I have already stated my opinion about any external signs of change. Who cares if it "came out of fucking nowhere" to you? If you require emotional transformation to be explicit, that's your problem.



And who cares if it was "well developed" to you? 

No, you require some sort of gradual development when you are converting a fucking ball of hatred to the side of good.

Oh wait, he's just a fluffy pet deep down, so tsundere of him. My bad.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Luiz said:


> Either that, or saying that /Minato Jiraiya trusted him therefore he'll succeed.
> 
> Naruto's philosophy is shallow.
> 
> At least Nagato reached his conclusion through observation of human history and war. It was more solid.



Do tell which character's philosophy do you agree with? Do elaborate how said philosophies are not "shallow"?

Solid is irrelevant if does not address the issue in a effective and justified manner. Rapid economic progress through slave labour is also "solid".

Its laughable that those who ridicule Naruto for not having a definitive answer to some of the  most profound issues are fans of the jokers of villains who believe that Matrix rip-off brainwashing is the answer.

Seriously, such absurdity! Never a shortage for ridiculous opinions on these forums.


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

Grendel said:


> This chapter wasn't just about his eye though...kakashi now thinks its obito not just the eye...



thats the problem imo.

kakashi thinks that tobi is obito, so his identity wont be a surprise if he is obito anymore, because kakashi came to the conclusion before the mask broke .


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> kishi: "oh hey, im totally going to reveal that tobi's eye is obito's...only to finally make the ground breaking reveal at 600...that he is obito."



lol, sounds like Kishi.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> 597: OH HEY, TOBI'S EYE IS OBITO'S, YOU KNOW!
> 
> 598: *kakashi passes out*
> 
> ...



Yer killin' me smalls


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Cool story, bro.



Good counter.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Take another look. Also, how the hell would he be anle to still be alive, let alone talk, if half of his head was crushed? Use common sense, please.


He survived the first rock sure, even talked a bit, but then several dozen boulders roll over him so there may be some doubt.


----------



## Grendel (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> thats the problem imo.
> 
> kakashi thinks that tobi is obito, so his identity wont be a surprise if he is obito anymore, because kakashi came to the conclusion before the mask broke .



It still wasn't an outright reveal...at least to the casual reader...


----------



## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> thats the problem imo.
> 
> kakashi thinks that tobi is obito, so his identity wont be a surprise if he is obito anymore, because kakashi came to the conclusion before the mask broke .



He thinks so, but he didn't say so.

So people can still keep on guessing, which is what Kishimoto wants.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> thats the problem imo.
> 
> kakashi thinks that tobi is obito, so his identity wont be a surprise if he is obito anymore, because kakashi came to the conclusion before the mask broke .



Actually I don't think Tobi ever states he got Obito's eye just where/when he got from.  

For the casual fan they probably don't know where or what the bridge is. I surely wouldn't if it weren't for this collective here.


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> lol, sounds like Kishi.



there is always a risk when it comes to kishi , lets see what he learned as kubo's disciple.



X Itachi X said:


> Yer killin' me smalls



...i cant help it


----------



## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> kishi: "oh hey, im totally going to reveal that tobi's eye is obito's...only to finally make the ground breaking reveal at 600...that he is obito."



Pretty much, I'm amazed that a lot of people somehow don't recognize how that makes absolutely no sense.


----------



## Olivia (Aug 11, 2012)

Just saying, what drawbacks does Kakashi have? I know he questioned Itachi about eye sight, but have we ever seen Kakashi's eye sight betting worse, or does it just degrade at an extremely slow pace?


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

insane111 said:


> Pretty much, I'm amazed that a lot of people somehow don't recognize how that makes absolutely no sense.



Kishi did something similar with Nagato.


----------



## BlinkST (Aug 11, 2012)

Narutoluffy


----------



## Kanki (Aug 11, 2012)

Seriously wish this would hurry up!

Anyone think there's a chance this will be up within the next 3 hours?


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

597
Tobi: Oh yeah, i got this eye where Obito died, I can also totally like, use the same jutsu as you, sort of - mind fuck eh?  Try and guess my identity Kakashi i DARE YOU  

Kishi: Oh boy! Readers, keep on the edge of your seats for the BIG REVEAL! 


Chapter 600:
Mask comes off, it's that uchiha kid, USING HIS OWN EYES - SHOCK, HORROR!

Reader:


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

insane111 said:


> Pretty much, I'm amazed that a lot of people somehow don't recognize how it now makes even less sense for him to be Obito now.



So the average fan is supposed to recognize and obscure reference to a bridge in Kakashi Gaiden as proof Obito is Tobi?


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## GoDMasteR (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi is or Obito or Rin.


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## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> It means that they have shitty power ups as the plot demands it. Naruto is the shining champion in this.



It actually means that your argument about the need to explicitly witness important developments is flawed.



> Don't blame me for Kishimoto being inconsistent. In part 1 Kyuubi saved Naruto's life because he was worried about his own, not because he secretly liked him.



Poor argument.

Your reasoning was based on inaccurate claims. You should not have made an argument which the author has been "inconsistent" about.

Another argument flawed.



> And who cares if it was "well developed" to you?
> 
> No, you require some sort of gradual development when you are converting a fucking ball of hatred to the side of good.
> 
> Oh wait, he's just a fluffy pet these days. My bad.



Where did I ask you to care for my opinion? The point is claiming that some development is not to your standard is a useless notion, particularly one that has little objective content to evaluate upon.

More purely subjective opinion about "gradual development" which lacks any inherent objective quality, nothing I need to comment upon.


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## Lelouch71 (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Kishi did something similar with Nagato.


Yup. Some people thought Pain couldn't be Nagato because it would be too easy and Kishi wouldn't be making a big deal over his secret identity. I was against the theory of Tobi being Obito, but even I have begun to accept the possibility that he is Obito. Kishi isn't exactly well known for being subtle or random about these kind of things.


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## m1cojakle (Aug 11, 2012)

It cant be obito.


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## insane111 (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> So the average fan is supposed to recognize and obscure reference to a bridge in Kakashi Gaiden as proof Obito is Tobi?



The bridge line doesn't even matter. For the average reader the lines like "where did you get that eye' and "our jutsu are the same" is enough for regular readers to make the connection.


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## Kakashi Hatake (Aug 11, 2012)

thinkingaboutlife said:


> Spoil pic from the latest chapter.



Do you know how awesome that would be if it was true.


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## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

That's one stupid argument.

Obito's reveal is a gradual reveal, not a sudden one.

If Kishi never gave any hints whatsoever throughout the manga, or now during this crucial time, we'd have nothing to go by, nothing, and every single character would be a likely candidate for Tobi.


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## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

ohh geg's translation is so good, cleaned up a lot of stuff about the end of the spoiler 


tobito fans, im teasing you guys, i have a bad side, you know 

lets see how it will play if tobi is obito, could be fun, i liked kakashi's reaction, quite exciting.


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## Harbour (Aug 11, 2012)

pic is obviously not a fake!


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## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

insane111 said:


> The bridge line doesn't even matter, lines like "where did you get that eye" and "our jutsu are the same" is enough for regular readers to make the connection.



The claims that he found it are enough to cloud the average reader despite the rant.  But the bridge thing is obscure.  I didn't even know the bridge myself.


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## Stormcloak (Aug 11, 2012)

I wonder how kakashi will react


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## Star★Platinum (Aug 11, 2012)

thinkingaboutlife said:


> Spoil pic from the latest chapter.



Seems legit.


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## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

Kakashi Hatake said:


> Do you know how awesome that would be if it was true.



itachi's missing, lol...but yeah...nerdgasm...


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## mlc818 (Aug 11, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Don't blame me for Kishimoto being inconsistent. In part 1 Kyuubi saved Naruto's life because he was worried about his own, not because he secretly liked him.



I've always assumed that the retcon of that was that Kurama would have "died" for a year or more or whatever...  although now that I write that down, it doesn't make much sense for an immortal monster to consider a "death nap" of 1 to 5 years to be a bad option when he's going to be trapped in a man for the something like 50 to 70 more years otherwise...

Definitely a plot hole, because he hadn't decided on the process of how a bijuu was created, dies, or is revived at that time. 




Melas said:


> Do tell which character's philosophy do you agree with? Do elaborate how said philosophies are not "shallow"?
> 
> Solid is irrelevant if does not address the issue in a effective and justified manner. Rapid economic progress through slave labour is also "solid".
> 
> ...



I liked this! I also found it odd to consider Naruto's views shallow as compared to others like Nagato, Danzo, or Tobi.   All the philosophies in the manga are shallow because these are fictional characters in manga;  Naruto's resolution to continue trying to find a solution for real peace is far more realistic than Nagato's.  

I mean is the real world perfect? Everyone has equal rights, access to necessities; no animals, people, or resources are cruelly or unwisely exploited?  There are no unnecessary or unjust wars or violence?  If there was an answer to all this, Kishi would put it in his manga... but his manga wouldn't have this theme because it would be immaterial and uninteresting in this perfect fairy tale world.  Kishi is not Jesus, or Gandhi, or Martin Luther King, so how is he supposed to write a solution that's better thought out than what our world presently has?


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## Kanki (Aug 11, 2012)

Kakashi Hatake said:


> Do you know how awesome that would be if it was true.



For once, I agree with you.


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## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

Stormcloak said:


> I wonder how kakashi will react


well, since he didnt pass out for lack of chakra, this time he will pass out from shock


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## Ichiurto (Aug 11, 2012)

mlc818 said:


> I've always assumed that the retcon of that was that Kurama would have "died" for a year or more or whatever...  although now that I write that down, it doesn't make much sense for an immortal monster to consider a "death nap" of 1 to 5 years to be a bad option when he's going to be trapped in a man for the something like 50 to 70 more years otherwise...
> 
> Definitely a plot hole, because he hadn't decided on the process of how a bijuu was created, dies, or is revived at that time.
> 
> ...



One of these is most certainly not like the other if you did your research.


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## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

GoDMasteR said:


> Tobi is or Obito or Rin.


Obito is predictable. Rin would be a shock.

I choose Rin.


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## Phemt (Aug 11, 2012)

Rin's got the body of a man?

Disgust.

And the voice.

And the penis.

Disgust.

lulz.


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## うずまきナルト (Aug 11, 2012)

If you're having girl problems I feel bad for you son. I got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one.


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## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> Rin's got the body of a man?


Oro had the body of a woman.

Rin is not very likely but it would be a shocking twist.

I give it a 5% chance.


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## lucid1 (Aug 11, 2012)

tobi is hidan with sharingan you morans


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## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

*Fact:* This chapter establishes that Tobi's right eye is Obito. Furthermore, that connection was made through Kamui. As such, it's reasonable to conclude that Tobi's S/T techinques are due to MS.

*Fact:* The Mangekyō Sharingan is acquired through the trauma experienced from the death of a person close to the Sharingan user.

When Obito "died" in that cave, he had yet to awaken his MS. If he died there, then that means he never awoke it and that whoever got that eye had to go through this trauma at some point to awaken the MS. Unless it's retroactive, i.e. you only need to awaken it your eyes, not the eye that is transplanted. Two ways this could be done.

*The new user awoke the Ms, by losing someone close to them. This rules out mostly everyone. The death of a fodder to explain this would be very lazy. Izuna would have an excuse, as Madara needs to die after all  but considering the recent theories, he might have lived beyond Naruto's birth (Kisame's flashback and Itachi's flashback), so the long haired masked man would become troublesome to explain.

*The new user only needs to have activate his own previously to being transplanted with new eyes. However, all MS users have activated theirs first and only after that did some of them switch eyes.

TL;DR: It seems like awakening an MS is a personal thing. x eyes can only be awaken by x person's sadness, not by whoever implated those eyes in their sockets. If this is true, Tobi can only be Obito, and Kakashi got his own unlocked because they are connected. :33



Matta Clatta said:


> What's next Tobi Tank



I remember this edit. <3

---

The only thing against Tobito at this moment is that Tobi should be going blind by now, because his MS isn't EMS. Then again, his body is patchwork. Who knows if he doesn't have some Madara DNA there to counter that? Or if Zetsu aka Hashirama plant mode is enough for MS to be EMS for all due intent.



loool3 said:


> Tobi has Hashiramas Dna so also his chakra, its no surprise that they cant recognize Obito's chakra which is merged with the powerfull Senju chakra...



Extremely good point!


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## Raiden (Aug 11, 2012)

Watch whoever Tobi is unlock the Mangeko Sharingan with that eye because Rin died.


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## Orochibuto (Aug 11, 2012)

However Tobi's sharingan is not MS, I think some very exotic and rare effect went there by Obito transplanting the eye, then "dying", then experiencing the trauma that would cause him to go MS but one of his eye (Kakashi's) was still normal.

I dont think Obito's sharingan is normal, some strange effect happened, he has all the strenghts of sharingan none of the weaknesses.


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## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

So...Tobi is Obito?


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## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

> *Fact:* This chapter establishes that Tobi's right eye is Obito.  Furthermore, that connection was made through Kamui. As such, it's  reasonable to conclude that Tobi's S/T techinques are due to MS.
> 
> *Fact:* The Mangekyō Sharingan is acquired through the trauma experienced from the death of a person close to the Sharingan user.



Aldready known.


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## うずまきナルト (Aug 11, 2012)

Get ready for TnJ. Sigh...


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## Grendel (Aug 11, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> So...Tobi is Obito?



Seems to be what he chapter implies...no confirmation though


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## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

If Tobi is indeed Obito, I wonder if Rin's death is a driving reason for what he's doing.

Then we'd have Tobi's sob story.


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## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

うずまきナルト said:
			
		

> Get ready for TnJ.


I know, It's so epic.



> Sigh...


You doubtin' the power of TNJ?!


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## Brian (Aug 11, 2012)

Not sure what I find distasteful,

If Tobi is Obito then he's trying to control the world over some dumb bitch who friendzoned him 

Or the Kyuubi in this chapter, or this new Kyuubi in general


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## AlphaReaver (Aug 11, 2012)

Brace Your Selves


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## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

kyuubi is just acting like a good kitsune, leave him alone


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## Lindsay (Aug 11, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> So...Tobi is Obito?



Not necessarily as there are several ways Tobi could have gotten Obito's remaining eye or even his body.


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## Fay (Aug 11, 2012)

Kyuubi and Naruto are acting a bit too cheesy for my taste, but we have to keep in mind that this manga is for middle school boys. They probably love this .


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## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> If Tobi is Obito then he's trying to control the world over some dumb bitch who friendzoned him


Um, no. it's because of Kakashi's flippant talking and promise to protect Rin, which he didn't, putting Obito's sacrifice in vain because he entrusted Rin's safety to Kakashi but Kakashi failed and Obito's wish never came true. So, Obito may have thought he should have let the boulder land on Kakashi, because he thought he himself was more suited to protect Rin then someone who speaks completely empty words.

It's freakin' obvious, guys.


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## Ichiurto (Aug 11, 2012)

Kyuubi should have been female.

I remember reading a ton of fanfictions when I was younger with a NarutoxKyuubi pairing.

Such a guilty pleasure


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## WT (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi to me seems a lot like Naraku from Inuyasha. A wounded bandit which attracts demons transforming him into a super villain. 

A wounded Obito on the verge of death attracts Zetsu who proceeds to inject him with his DNA and that of Madaras. Black Zetsu using his recording abilities transfers across some of Madaras memories giving him this dual identity. I say dual because Tobi seemed quite passionate when he spoke to Kakashi in the spoilers, showing his Obito side. Regardless of that, transformed Obito adopts Madaras ideals and goes onto become Tobi.


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## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

White Tiger said:


> Tobi to me seems a lot like Naraku from Inuyasha. A wounded bandit which attracts demons transforming him into a super villain.
> 
> A wounded Obito on the verge of death attracts Zetsu who proceeds to inject him with his DNA and that of Madaras. Black Zetsu using his recording abilities transfers across some of Madaras memories giving him this dual identity. I say dual because Tobi seemed quite passionate when he spoke to Kakashi in the spoilers, showing his Obito side. Regardless of that, transformed Obito adopts Madaras ideals and goes onto become Tobi.



This seems quite possible.


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## Guiness (Aug 11, 2012)

Brian said:


> Not sure what I find distasteful,
> 
> If Tobi is Obito then he's trying to control the world over some dumb bitch who friendzoned him
> 
> Or the Kyuubi in this chapter, or this new Kyuubi in general







Jeαnne said:


> kyuubi is just acting like a good kitsune, leave him alone



good kitsune? more like dickwhipped and cheesy. a millenium's worth of malice and hatred, all dissipated after spending a couple weeks in a new cage inside the body of 17 year old who most of the time has no clue of what goes on in people's lives, yet he can talk them out of anything? 

it worked in part one because he was dealing with mainly children his age, but grown adults who lived lives far worse can yet be talked out of things which they thought they had the utmost conviction for?

sucky character is sucky.


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## Tyrion (Aug 11, 2012)

Anyone thought of this? Obito died, got transplanted with zetsu goo containing historical information about the narutoverse, then Obito went back to the bridge to get his eye back?


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## AlphaReaver (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm So Excited  This Is Almost As Good As That Time Lupe Put Me On His Guestlist


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## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

foreign said:


> good kitsune? more like dickwhipped and cheesy. a millenium's worth of malice and hatred, all dissipated after spending a couple weeks in a new cage inside the body of 17 year old who most of the time has no clue of what goes on in people's lives, yet he can talk them out of anything?
> 
> it worked in part one because he was dealing with mainly children his age, but grown adults who lived lives far worse can yet be talked out of things which they thought they had the utmost conviction for?
> 
> sucky character is sucky.




to think that kyuubi was madara's pet


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## Palpatine (Aug 11, 2012)

Would be better if the kyuubi were working with Naruto in this instance just so he could beat the shit out of Tobi and Madara. 

But whatever...


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## AlphaReaver (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> to think that kyuubi was madara's pet



Madara's Slave, you mean? Even in part 2 Kyuubi showed no love for Madara


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## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> What are you trying to do is white-wash Tobi's actions.



I am not doing this, I am trying to show you that Tobi is no different than Nagato and Itachi.  And according to Kishi, those people are not evil.  I'm not the one writing this shit, you are taking your complaints to the wrong person.  In Naruto's manga, people like Tobi, Sasuke, Itachi, and Nagato are redeemable.  According to Kishi, these people all have a sob story that leads to their well-intended but disgusting actions.  Bottom line is Tobi is like all the other redeemable villains we've had..from Gaara to Nagato.

My point is that Obito is the only one that can fit as a redeemable villain in my eyes.  He's the only one who would try to make a peaceful ninja world as far as I know.  This means that anyone else just doesn't fit Tobi.  Also remember how silly Tobi was when he was with Deidara??  Can you really imagine someone like Madara's brother acting like that?


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## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> to think that kyuubi was madara's pet



Slavery of a whiny bitch who is too pathetic to even hang onto his "pet" or partnership with the second coming/true successor of RS, really such a downgrade.

Madara-tards, such laughable notions.

Next, please revert with predictable responses.


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## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Sutol said:


> He thinks so, but he didn't say so.
> 
> So people can still keep on guessing, which is what Kishimoto wants.



Isn't that half of the board is doing in this thread? No, he can't be Obito, too obvious must be someone else.


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## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Am I the only one who actually likes it that Kurama is good now?


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## Tyrion (Aug 11, 2012)

Just because it is "obvious" to most of us here is a huge shock to the readers in Japan. They don't theorize in their mom's basement about this shit every day of the week for the past 3 years to figure out Tobi's identity...hell some people theorise japanese methology with Uchihas, they ain't extreme like us.


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## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> Isn't that half of the board is doing in this thread? No, he can't be Obito, too obvious must be someone else.



More like willful denial lol.  It's not that its too obvious, it's that there are years of not-so-kind words they'd have to eat.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> kyuubi is just acting like a good kitsune, leave him alone



LMAO, yea the Kyubi is being trolled hard.

Mass of hatred my ass.


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## joshhookway (Aug 11, 2012)

> Kakashi: !! ...You're...
> 
> Tobi: I already told you! You always talk too flippantly! Since you've degraded into a man who does nothing but spout lip-service, your words hold no value or meaning! Even if you have regrets, it's too late. Reality... just cruelly pushes forward. You've seen that reality for yourself; you should understand... In this world, it's impossible to make even one of your wishes come true. That's why it must be guided toward my Infinite Tsukuyomi dream... I'll create a world where heroes will no longer have to make pathetic excuses in front of the graves of friends.
> 
> ...



Pretty much confirms Tobi is obito


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## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

A.Glover92 said:


> Just because it is "obvious" to most of us here is a huge shock to the readers in Japan. They don't theorize in their mom's basement about this shit every day of the week for the past 3 years to figure out Tobi's identity...hell some people theorise japanese methology with Uchihas, they ain't extreme like us.



And why wouldn't they?  Japan has shown to be pretty hardcore about their passions.  What exactly do you think an otaku is?  That sort of obsessive behavior is a normal part of their culture.  

Also they tend to live with their parents until they get married.  Usually.  There are cases where they go away to school, but in general they stay until married.  My friend's brother actually just moved back into his parent's house. He's over 30.


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## Lindsay (Aug 11, 2012)

A.Glover92 said:


> Anyone thought of this? Obito died, got transplanted with zetsu goo containing historical information about the narutoverse, then Obito went back to the bridge to get his eye back?



The main problem with such is that Tobi extracted Kurama roughly a year later. Tobi stated that he "waited a long time for this moment" when referring to Kushina giving birth.


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## santanico (Aug 11, 2012)

So it's been confirmed eh? finally, naysayers must feel silly


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## Tyrion (Aug 11, 2012)

AMtrack said:


> And why wouldn't they?  Japan has shown to be pretty hardcore about their passions.  What exactly do you think an otaku is?  That sort of obsessive behavior is a normal part of their culture.
> 
> Also they tend to live with their parents until they get married.  Usually.  There are cases where they go away to school, but in general they stay until married.  My friend's brother actually just moved back into his parent's house. He's over 30.



Theorising face to face is a totally different story than theorising on forums.


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## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Am I the only one who actually likes it that Kurama is good now?



No.

Cooperation is preferable to subjugation. I prefer that Naruto works with Kurama as a partner than merely controlling it.

Essentially he treats Kurama as an intelligent being deserves to be treated and not merely as a tool.

Moreover, just evaluate the arguments of naysayers. They argue that Kurama is being "trolled" when he works as Naruto's equal. Presumably, they would find it better if he was locked away and his chakra used against his will. The absurdity should not be hard to perceive.


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## Mateush (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Am I the only one who actually likes it that Kurama is good now?



No you are normal. Don't compare yourself with these who never understand Rikudou's purpose for creating these cute animals.


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## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Fay said:


> Kyuubi and Naruto are acting a bit too cheesy for my taste, but we have to keep in mind that this manga is for middle school boys. They probably love this .


I see more 'cheese' on television than in Naruto. 

Miiddle school boys aren't my area of expertise but you are generalizing. There's probably a wide variety of opinions just like here.


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## WarDragon989 (Aug 11, 2012)

Not jumping on the Tobi=Obito hate train but Jiraya once said something which can be slightly put into this situation.

"The real one is not among them"

He has Obito's eye that all that is confirmed. Considering how easy to transplant eyes in this manga, don't say its true until its been officially revealed.

But to be honest I do hope its Obito.


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## Gunners (Aug 11, 2012)

I don't mind Naruto being friends with Kurama, it'd have been funnier if this occurred in part 1 though. You'd have someone like Orochimaru, Neji or Kiba talking shit to Naruto only for Kyuubi to take over and rip them in half.


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## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Japan theorises about Obito = Tobi alright. Just google any of the names in japanese and you'll find them on each other's results.

Example which I really like because of how alike Tobi and Obito look:





foreign said:


> good kitsune? more like dickwhipped and cheesy. a millenium's worth of malice and hatred, all dissipated after spending a couple weeks in a new cage inside the body of 17 year old who most of the time has no clue of what goes on in people's lives, yet he can talk them out of anything?
> 
> it worked in part one because he was dealing with mainly children his age, but grown adults who lived lives far worse can yet be talked out of things which they thought they had the utmost conviction for?
> 
> sucky character is sucky.



Uhm... I agree.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Am I the only one who actually likes it that Kurama is good now?



I don't mind that he's good. I just mind how it was done. Like the other posters have said, he was a beast that lived hated for centuries, now he's TnJ in the course of a day? Because that was what was shown. There was no gradual warmup at all. Naruto disliked him until this war.

A great opportunity was last in fact. Naruto is always lonely, he was lonely as a child. Why didn't he try to befriend Kurama after he knew of its existance? Five years or so of Naruto trying to might still be little, but that added with what Kurama has seen through his eyes would have been pretty good.


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## Revolution (Aug 11, 2012)

So when is 597 coming out?  I see there are spoilers, so how many more hours must I WAIT?


----------



## Black Mirror (Aug 11, 2012)

No early spoilers I guess  

It's time we get to see Konohamaru owning Madara. Now that would be a fuckin hilarious troll by Kishi.


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## Tyrion (Aug 11, 2012)

Lindsay said:


> The main problem with such is that Tobi extracted Kurama roughly a year later. Tobi stated that he "waited a long time for this moment" when referring to Kushina giving birth.



I used to hate the Tobito theories but everything is pointing to him being Obito...


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## Gonder (Aug 11, 2012)

lets have moment silence for Easley who dedicated most of his posts to denying tobito


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

I look at this whining about the Kyuubi being so strongly in Naruto's favor, and I just laugh. Naruto has been impacting the Kyuubi through his words and actions since part one. The Kyuubi just kept putting up a really tough front, acting as if none of it meant anything to him or had any sort of impact.

It is no insignificant thing to the Kyuubi that he witnessed as Naruto went out of his way to display the same companionship to another bijuu as he has often seen Naruto display for his fellow human comrades. That's a pretty big deal. The Kyuubi has been watching Naruto constantly persevere and prove people wrong in ways that managed to change individuals who didn't appear as if they could be changed at all. The Kyuubi has watched Naruto his entire life.

He even saw how, despite it all, Naruto never gave up on Sasuke even when he had plenty of legitimate reasons to do just that. This friendship that Naruto has with the Kyuubi now was not easily attained, and it's hilarious to watch as people desperately try and pretend as if well over 500 chapters was "too quick." Some of you jokers make me laugh. They also try and pretend as if the Rikudou Sennin, someone the Kyuubi clearly respected above all, basically foretelling that someone such as Naruto would come along and lead them all down the right path, and the Kyuubi believing with all his might that Naruto is that very person, is something that should also not matter in this entire equation. All the bijuu believe in Naruto. Hell, the Kyuubi might very well believe that Naruto is the second coming of the Rikudou Sennin, or even a full on reincarnation, and the other bijuu believed it as well. Kurama is no Naruto fanboy. He's a Rikudou Sennin fanboy, and Naruto is the next Rikudou Sennin.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Brian said:


> Not sure what I find distasteful,
> 
> If Tobi is Obito then he's trying to control the world over some dumb bitch who friendzoned him
> 
> Or the Kyuubi in this chapter, or this new Kyuubi in general



Rin dies? 

Plot to control the world.


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

A.Glover92 said:


> Theorising face to face is a totally different story than theorising on forums.



Have you googled the topic in japanese?  I'm just curious.  Cuz I am about to do it just to see if you actually know or if you're just saying stuff to say it.  There's no reason why they wouldnt theorize online as much as we do.


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Am I the only one who actually likes it that Kurama is good now?



Nope, you're not the only one. Give them a break, though. 95% of the forum is just pissed they've been made to look like fools, because they were so certain that Tobi couldn't possibly be Obito, but it seems they were all wrong based on how things are looking right now?

They can't take it, so they are venting their frustrations elsewhere.


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## Tyrion (Aug 11, 2012)

AMtrack said:


> Have you googled the topic in japanese?  I'm just curious.  Cuz I am about to do it just to see if you actually know or if you're just saying stuff to say it.  There's no reason why they wouldnt theorize online as much as we do.



I wasn't talking about online.


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## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Gonder said:
			
		

> lets have moment silence for Easley who dedicated most of his posts to denying tobito


Lol, Easley's a girl.


----------



## Mcginnis (Aug 11, 2012)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> LMAO, yea the Kyubi is being trolled hard.
> 
> Mass of hatred my ass.



The sage did tell him and the other pokemons that someday, they'll know true power(of love). As per citing that naruto treated it like a friend at least.


----------



## Deva Path (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm confused, was Tobi able to warp around when he fought Minato? I'm pretty sure he could but still I'm not 100%. 
If so, that means the individual has to unlock the Mangekyou on their own considering Kakashi didn't get his until the time skip. 
Maybe Rin died in between the time span of Obito's "death" and the nine-tails attack. Why else would Obito's Mangekyou unlock?
This is of course if Tobi is in fact Obito. If it's Izuna, for example, maybe it was unlocked once Madara died.


----------



## Black Mirror (Aug 11, 2012)

isnt it strange that there is no pic yet and a fullscript already? Even early spoiler at least have a super law quality panel of the chapter usually..


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

Kyuubi being good was obviously an ass pull.
Naruto treats it like an object for 500 chapters. Says some nice words later on.
Kyuubi goes good


----------



## Lindsay (Aug 11, 2012)

A.Glover92 said:


> I used to hate the Tobito theories but everything is pointing to him being Obito...



I'm not particularly against Tobi = Obito but it would be silly if Obito became Kage-level (to the point he could control Kurama and fight Minato) around the time period of a single year. Then stating that he waited a "long time" for Kushina to become pregnant?


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Just checked the reaction of the japaneses on 2ch.

Obito's theory seems far less popular than it is here. The 50 or so last messages are almost only manga & Tobito bahsing.

Izuna and Kagami are still seen as credible theories over there it seems.


----------



## smashbroforlife (Aug 11, 2012)

I hope Kagami is Tobi just for the reactions. He is only Uchiha that we don't know much about and his sob story could be that he is angry that the Senju made his clan become their dogs.(He is like the first generation to be with the leaf , if timeline is right.)

Only thing we heard from him is that he was telling someone to get themselves killed.

He is older than Nagato but old of enough to have taken notes from Madara and could have meet Zetsu who recorded everything for him.(Even the death of Obito.) (With son of white fan and Minato plus free eyes , why not be watching everything.)


----------



## Gunners (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Kyuubi being good was obviously an ass pull.
> Naruto treats it like an object for 500 chapters. Says some nice words later on.
> Kyuubi goes good



And I suppose Gaara becoming the Kazekage was also an asspull? After Naruto smacking him down he suddenly started caring about his village. 

People use that term far too much. Anytime something surprising happens, any time their prediction goes wrong or anytime something happens that they do not like.


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Menacing Eyes said:


> I just read Geg's translation. So Tobi does have Obito's eye eh?
> 
> All the odds are against me. But I'm not going to admit defeat 'till the end, when Tobi's mask is off and he confirms his identity.
> 
> If this manga has taught me anything it's to never give up.



LOL, that's right, we must keep fightin till the end.  



Ryan said:


> Nagato already had the Rinnegan, during the third ninja war, remember he and his friends fought Hanzou and Danzou at the time. Obito was alive, or just died, at that point. Tobi is the only person who knew Nagato and he was the one who offered him the eyes, years ago before the war even started.
> 
> Yagura, the fourth Mizukage, was also the kage when Zabuza was just a little kid (who is the same age as Kakashi), in the academy -his era known as the bloody mist at that time. Guess who was supposedly controlling him? Tobi.
> 
> That just doesn't add up at all. Tobi can't be Obito.



Nagato had the rinnegan during the second ninja war, or right after it finished.  That was least 12-17 years before the kyubi attack.  

Madara and Tobi knew each other, that's confirmed by kishi in the manga and the interview.  

Tobi said he gave Nagato the rinnegan, that's obviously a lie, he himself didn't do shit, since he was playin the role of Madara, that means it's possible Madara gave Nagato the rinnegan by giving Nagato his blind Mangekyou, some random sharingan, uchiha spiritual energies/dna by genjutsu rapin his uzumaki mother.  

Madara knows about Nagato and his rinnegan awakening, that means he was the one who caused it (by setting up the circumstances for it).  

So here's the fun part, Madara couldn't have given Nagato his own rinnegan since he only awakened his own hours/days before his death, and he must've lived till few months after the kannabi battle and up to 10 months least before the kyubi attack in order for Madara to have recovered the dying Obito, fix him up, and change his thinking.  

So for Madara to fulfill both conditions of having met Tobi long enuff to make him his successor and for him to have given the rinnegan to Nagato, then it can only mean Madara awoke the rinnegan within Nagato thru alternative means than transplanting his own, and that Nagato is the second Rikudou.  Cuz Nagato would have the rinnegan awakening when he was with Jiraiya, and Madara would get it years later moments before his death.  But Madara implied he died when Nagato was a brat, so Tobi should've been alive at the time to carry on Madara's will/wishes/plans.  

Timeline gets screwed up bigtime if Tobi turns out to be Obito.  Only thing that can slightly explain it away is if Madara was alive all along and there were 2 masked men, Madara ordering Tobi from the shadows, while Tobi orders Pain from the shadows, lol.  Especially if the one Itachi met and said that his eyes retain their power was the real long haired Madara, that one would be alive 7.5 years after the kyubi attack, 2 days prior to the massacre, he would still have his EMS eyes, and no rinnegan.  

But hey, let the fun begin.


----------



## Easley (Aug 11, 2012)

Gonder said:


> lets have moment silence for Easley who dedicated most of his posts to denying tobito


I'm glad you remember me. That is heartwarming.

I never thought Tobito was impossible, but it's something I'd rather not happen. If that's "denying Tobito" so be it. I think his death scene in Kakashi Gaiden is perfect. As a villain he's gonna get a raw deal because I doubt he'll ever be redeemed. Kishi might try it but I'm not buying that nonsense after Nagato.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> Nope, you're not the only one. Give them a break, though. 95% of the forum is just pissed they've been made to look like fools, because they were so certain that Tobi couldn't possibly be Obito, but it seems they were all wrong based on how things are looking right now?
> 
> They can't take it, so they are venting their frustrations elsewhere.



Frustration is certainly a factor, but then again, weak attempts to denigrate the Naruto/Kurama partnership is hardly a novelty on these forums.

You have people implying that being a slave to Madara was a better proposition for Kurama than his current situation; interesting notions to say the least.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

gina24 said:


> The sage did tell him and the other pokemons that someday, they'll know true power(of love). As per citing that naruto treated it like a friend at least.



It's sad that you have to break this simple stuff down for people. Their ignorance won't even allow them to look at manga facts that support Kurama's new attitude towards Naruto.



Melas said:


> Frustration is certainly a factor, but then again, weak attempts to denigrate the Naruto/Kurama partnership is hardly a novelty on these forums.
> 
> You have people implying that being a slave to Madara was a better proposition for Kurama than his current situation; interesting notions to say the least.



Exactly, to them Kurama being a slave to Madara is a whole hell of a lot more positive for his character. They prefer he be so weak and powerless before certain individuals that he practically becomes their pet. It isn't very hard to believe that the Kyuubi for once started to believe in someone, and wanted to use its power to fight for someone or something, as opposed to just being used as a tool of destruction like some mindless animal.


----------



## Sound Village (Aug 11, 2012)

Rokudaime Sennin ? said:


> Tobi said he gave Nagato the rinnegan, that's obviously a lie, he himself didn't do shit, since he was playin the role of Madara



You see, it's not so obvious to me. I suppose it could be just a lie if he just told Konan, but he also told Zetsu and Kabuto, who both knew he wasn't the real Madara.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Aug 11, 2012)

Now everybody who doubted wants to act like they believed, lmao. BANDWAGON!!


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> I look at this whining about the Kyuubi being so strongly in Naruto's favor, and I just laugh. Naruto has been impacting the Kyuubi through his words and actions since part one. The Kyuubi just kept putting up a really tough front, acting as if none of it meant anything to him or had any sort of impact.
> 
> It is no insignificant thing to the Kyuubi that he witnessed as Naruto went out of his way to display the same companionship to another bijuu as he has often seen Naruto display for his fellow human comrades. That's a pretty big deal. The Kyuubi has been watching Naruto constantly persevere and prove people wrong in ways that managed to change individuals who didn't appear as if they could be changed at all. The Kyuubi has watched Naruto his entire life.
> 
> He even saw how, despite it all, Naruto never gave up on Sasuke even when he had plenty of legitimate reasons to do just that. This friendship that Naruto has with the Kyuubi now was not easily attained, and it's hilarious to watch as people desperately try and pretend as if well over 500 chapters was "too quick." Some of you jokers make me laugh. They also try and pretend as if the Rikudou Sennin, someone the Kyuubi clearly respected above all, basically foretelling that someone such as Naruto would come along and lead them all down the right path, and the Kyuubi believing with all his might that Naruto is that very person, is something that should also not matter in this entire equation. All the bijuu believe in Naruto. Hell, the Kyuubi might very well believe that Naruto is the second coming of the Rikudou Sennin, or even a full on reincarnation, and the other bijuu believed it as well. Kurama is no Naruto fanboy. He's a Rikudou Sennin fanboy, and Naruto is the next Rikudou Sennin.



Yes, what you describe of Naruto is very nice. However, Naruto never tried to be kind to Kurama, never tried to give the preservance he gives to anyone else, never treated him as anything but a tool. Always dropping by to borrow power, that's the total interaction Naruto had with Kurama before the war. Even Kurama acknowledges it: 'you shout lend me your power, every time you show up.'

[1]

It's true Kurama had respect for him, because Naruto had guts to confront what's perceived as a monster and so, he lent it the first time Naruto asked for power. Now believe that Naruto can treat him and the other tailed beasts differently? How is this indicative of Naruto as the next Rikudo and that they are going to be understood finally? Where did that come from? Nowhere, that's where.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Sound Village said:
			
		

> You see, it's not so obvious to me. I suppose it could be just a lie if he just told Konan, but he also told Zetsu and Kabuto, who both knew he wasn't the real Madara.


Could you link me to the chapter where he told them that?


----------



## navy (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Kyuubi being good was obviously an ass pull.
> Naruto treats it like an object for 500 chapters. Says some nice words later on.
> Kyuubi goes good



Kishi planned it like that since day 1...


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:
			
		

> It's true Kurama had respect for him, because Naruto had guts to confront what's perceived as a monster and so, he lent it the first time Naruto asked for power. Now believe that Naruto can treat him and the other tailed beasts differently? How is this indicative of Naruto as the next Rikudo and that they are going to be understood finally? Where did that come from? Nowhere, that's where.


Hm?

Pretty sure Kurama thought Naruto was the next Rikudou due to his KCM and BM and going by what Rikudou told them.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Anyway. Tobi is Obito.

The reveal will cause many very enjoyable shitstorms by the haters.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> It's true Kurama had respect for him, because Naruto had guts to confront what's perceived as a monster and so, he lent it the first time Naruto asked for power. *Now believe that Naruto can treat him and the other tailed beasts differently? How is this indicative of Naruto as the next Rikudo and that they are going to be understood finally? Where did that come from? Nowhere, that's where.*



What was Naruto's intent towards the bijuus in the current battle? Did he merely consider them as tools? Did he threat them as others have over the years in this battle?


----------



## Hachidaime (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Just checked the reaction of the japaneses on 2ch.
> 
> Obito's theory seems far less popular than it is here. The 50 or so last messages are almost only manga & Tobito bahsing.
> 
> Izuna and Kagami are still seen as credible theories over there it seems.



What are they saying about Tobito-theory?


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

So, just to clarify again, the chapter is coming out either tomorrow or Monday, correct?


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Nic, if Tobi didn't give Nagato his eyes, why did he say "they were mine to begin with" to Kabuto?
> Of course, if he's Izuna, then technically Madara's eyes are his



If Tobi = Izuna, him saying they were his eyes means they were his eyes that Madara used for EMS, then upgraded to rinnegan, implanted into Nagato and he got em back.  

If Tobi = Obito, him saying they were his to begin with, means that they're Madara's discarded Mangekyou eyes that were useless cuz they were blind but light returned to em after being implanted into Nagato and rinnegan awakening, and since Tobi was impersonating Madara, the statement would still hold true. 

Both theories are viable, it all depends on how long Madara lived, how many masked men there were at the same period of time.


----------



## Jaime Lannister (Aug 11, 2012)

Gunners said:


> And I suppose Gaara becoming the Kazekage was also an asspull? After Naruto smacking him down he suddenly started caring about his village.
> 
> People use that term far too much. Anytime something surprising happens, any time their prediction goes wrong or anytime something happens that they do not like.



To be fair, if my hypothetical therapist was a spiky-haired, sixteen-year-old pissant with serious father issues, pet frogs, a piss poor catchphrase and a deranged obsession with his ex-friend bordering on stalkerdom, I'd be wary about giving up my life's dark goals in favour of his apparent credibility.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> Yes, what you describe of Naruto is very nice. However, Naruto never tried to be kind to Kurama, never tried to give the preservance he gives to anyone else, never treated him as anything but a tool. Always dropping by to borrow power, that's the total interaction Naruto had with Kurama before the war. Even Kurama acknowledges it: 'you shout lend me your power, every time you show up.'
> 
> [1]
> 
> It's true Kurama had respect for him, because Naruto had guts to confront what's perceived as a monster and so, he lent it the first time Naruto asked for power. Now believe that Naruto can treat him and the other tailed beasts differently? How is this indicative of Naruto as the next Rikudo and that they are going to be understood finally? Where did that come from? Nowhere, that's where.




He doesn't simply just believe that Naruto *can* treat him and other tailed beasts differently. He has seen it and witnessed it for himself.

What Naruto has showcased to Kurama and the other tailed beasts is exactly the kind of power that the Rikudou Sennin told them they would one day witness. Naruto hasn't just paid lip service to what he truly desired between he and Kurama. He has backed it up with actions. The Kyuubi was watching Naruto very carefully when he said those things to Son Goku, and then followed it up with action. The Kyuubi's twisted interpretation of what Naruto was all about when he wanted nothing to do with Naruto doesn't factor in any shape or form into what Naruto has demonstrated himself as being for the Kyuubi to see for so many years.

Even when the Kyuubi seemed to be searching for a reason for why Naruto had so much confidence despite the terrible situation he found himself, Naruto continued to throw the Kyuubi for a loop. Remember Kakashi told Chiyo that Naruto has a special power? He seems able to make friends with just about anyone, but the Kyuubi knows full well that Naruto doesn't accomplish this with just talk. He backs it up with action. Kurama has seen enough. Naruto needs to prove nothing else to him. He believes in Naruto because he wants to believe what the Rikudou Sennin believed. It would be an understatement to say that Kurama looks at the Rikudou Sennin like a father. He and the other bijuu see Naruto as being the perfect embodiment of what the Sage stood for.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Melas said:


> What was Naruto's intent towards the bijuus in the current battle? Did he merely consider them as tools? Did he threat them as others have over the years in this battle?





SageEnergyMode said:


> He doesn't simply just believe that Naruto *can* treat him and other tailed beasts differently. He has seen it and witnessed it for himself.
> 
> What Naruto has showcased to Kurama and the other tailed beasts is exactly the kind of power that the Rikudou Sennin told them they would one day witness. Naruto hasn't just paid lip service to what he truly desired between he and Kurama. He has backed it up with actions. The Kyuubi was watching Naruto very carefully when he said those things to Son Goku, and then followed it up with action. The Kyuubi's twisted interpretation of what Naruto was all about when he wanted nothing to do with Naruto doesn't factor in any shape or form into what Naruto has demonstrated himself as being for the Kyuubi to see for so many years.
> 
> Even when the Kyuubi seemed to be searching for a reason for why Naruto had so much confidence despite the terrible situation he found himself, Naruto continued to throw the Kyuubi for a loop. Remember Kakashi told Chiyo that Naruto has a special power? He seems able to make friends with just about anyone, but the Kyuubi knows full well that Naruto doesn't accomplish this with just talk. He backs it up with action. Kurama has seen enough. Naruto needs to prove enough else to him. He believes in Naruto because he wants to believe what the Rikudou Sennin believed. It would be an understatement to say that Kurama looks at the Rikudou Sennin like a father. He and the other bijuu see Naruto as being the perfect embodiment of what the Sage stood for.



A single moment in time is going to convince a person who has been hated and looked down as a tool all their life? What about an entity that has lived like that for centuries? Like I said, some kind of bond should have been shown before. Even if Naruto had only dropped for power every time, some words or some TnJ should have been done every single time.

See, my problem isn't that Kurama was befriended. I expected that since chapter 95 or so. Kurama had an identity and Naruto befriended everybody, wanted to be acknowledged by everybody, besides he was lonely. It wasn't so strange that he'd try to TnJ Kurama. It was just how it was done, one single moment in time. :\



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Hm?
> 
> Pretty sure Kurama thought Naruto was the next Rikudou due to his KCM and BM and going by what Rikudou told them.



So Kurama and the others did it for the imagery alone? That would explain it, but it's even worse thematically. It ties with the chosen one shit, which I personally can't stand.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

I hate the new Bijuu modes.  I rather have him use the power with the risk of being taken over if not focused or dark. 

Sage mode should have sent him down this path instead of down playing J-man's SM by saying his was imperfect.  Allow Naruto's to be special from his Kyuubi chakra.



That's something how Naruto should look.  Not a SSJ imatation.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Jaime Lannister said:


> To be fair, if my hypothetical therapist was a spiky-haired, sixteen-year-old pissant with serious father issues, pet frogs, a piss poor catchphrase and a deranged obsession with his ex-friend bordering on stalkerdom, I'd be wary about giving up my life's dark goals in favour of his apparent credibility.



To be fair, you should not expect everyone to be as superficial in their evaluation of others as you seem to be.


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Kyuubi being good was obviously an ass pull.
> Naruto treats it like an object for 500 chapters. Says some nice words later on.
> Kyuubi goes good



i just like how he cares about minato and kushina's feelings now............. next, he wants to hug sasuke


----------



## Moon Fang (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> I hate the new Bijuu modes.  I rather have him use the power with the risk of being taken over if not focused or dark.
> 
> Sage mode should have sent him down this path instead of down playing J-man's SM by saying his was imperfect.  Allow Naruto's to be special from his Kyuubi chakra.
> 
> ...



Those both look more like SSJ imatations


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Sound Village said:


> You see, it's not so obvious to me. I suppose it could be just a lie if he just told Konan, but he also told Zetsu and Kabuto, who both knew he wasn't the real Madara.



The same reason he's goofy for no damn reason or pretends to be Madara for no damn reason.  The author makes him behavior ways for the audience to throw them off.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Addy said:


> i just like how he cares about minato and kushina's feelings now............. next, he wants to hug sasuke



True.  What does Kurama even care about those two? Even if we assume Kurama's TnJ by Naruto in one chapter isn't so bad, Kushina and Minato were still people that treated Kurama as a tool and never anything else. Kurama resented them, now he's okay with them and the mission they entrusted Naruto?


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Moon Fang said:


> Those both look more like SSJ imatations



The sage mode's hair does but I expected Naruto's transformation to be more beast like not a golden glowy guy.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> True.  What does Kurama even care about those two? Even if we assume Kurama's TnJ by Naruto in one chapter isn't so bad, Kushina and Minato were still people that treated Kurama as a tool and never anything else. Kurama resented them, now he's okay with them?



Kurama is happy to be a tool now ...

Honestly, he needs to go. Madara needs to finally make it to this battlefield and capture the Kyuubi so we can finally have the real juubi in action.

We now the juubi will be completed (not the lame ass version by fodder Obito, the real one since Rikudou Sennin predicted the bijuus would become one again and Obito gave up half way on this task) so Kishi should do that since this puppy is absolutely unbearable.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Kurama is happy to be a tool now ...



If only Stockholm syndrome wasn't too deep for a manga aimed at fifth graders, I'd be okay with it.


----------



## ?Sharingan Squid? (Aug 11, 2012)

Kyuubi: Go, Naruto! There's no way you'll fail!!

Awareness of the power of plot. A crack in the fourth wall, perhaps?


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Kurama is happy to be a tool now ...



Kurama of the Hidden Leaf forever!


----------



## Menacing Eyes (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> If only Stockholm syndrome wasn't too deep for a manga aimed at fifth graders, I'd be okay with it.


Wasn't Haku happy with being Zabuza's tool though?


----------



## Revolution (Aug 11, 2012)

Are the spoilers for the upcoming chapter real?  If they are, how long do we wait for an Enclish translation of chapter 597?


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> True.  What does Kurama even care about those two? Even if we assume Kurama's TnJ by Naruto in one chapter isn't so bad, Kushina and Minato were still people that treated Kurama as a tool and never anything else. Kurama resented them, now he's okay with them and the mission they entrusted Naruto?



it is called TNJ 

nagato had it worse ........ then again, TNJd nagato had little panels compared to TNJd kyuubi.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> A single moment in time is going to convince a person who has been hated and looked down as a tool all their life? What about an entity that has lived like that for centuries? Like I said, some kind of bond should have been shown before. Even if Naruto had only dropped for power every time, some words or some TnJ should have been done every single time.



Too narrow a perspective.

Naruto's actions and regard for the bijuus combined with what Kurama knows and understands of his personality and nature were apparently enough to convince Kurama.

Why would even one moment in time be not enough for someone who has suffered for centuries? A tiny ray of hope is often enough for the desperate.
Why would they not respond for someone who cares for them as more than tools? Its actually absurd to argue otherwise.

There is no end to argument about what a gradual progress or bond would be. Your definition is subjective to you and makes little sense to me. One can come up with standards to term something as inadequate no matter what. Add to that you notion of something being done "every single time" is frankly laughable.

Lets try an experiment, pick an emotional transformation and I'll argue about how it is possibly inadequate.

Also, do you bitch about every instance of a character revealing a new power when we did not see them train for it?


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

Naruto has told the Kyuubi ever since he conquered the Kyuubi in chapter 499 that he wouldn't treat him badly, and that he should just wait. A huge bond was showcased as forming even when Naruto first entered the war and he and the Kyuubi had a little chat about Sasuke and what Naruto would do about the war.

There have been examples already of their growing bond. Remember when the Kyuubi told Sasuke not to kill Naruto, that he would regret it? That could be seen as a sign that the Kyuubi was already thinking about Naruto in a slightly different way based on what he has seen, but the Kyuubi neglected to go deeper into his meaning. Perhaps the meaning had something to do with what the Rikudou Sennin said to him and the other bijuu, and he was believing that Naruto could be that person all the way back then.

The fact that the Kyuubi reflected back on Naruto's life of backing up his talk with action is a sign that Naruto, each time he made an impression on everyone else, was also making an impression on the Kyuubi.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Addy said:


> it is called TNJ
> 
> *nagato had it worse* ........ then again, TNJd nagato had little panels compared to TNJd kyuubi.



Oh man, Nagato.


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

AMtrack said:


> Obito seems more and more obvious every chapter.  Can't say I didn't see this coming >_>  I still see the strong denial though.
> 
> The best thing Tobito theory has going for it is motive.  Obito is literally the only guy who could possibly have the same motive as Tobi.  Remember, Tobi is not a "bad" guy...just a bit misguided like Nagato.  Like Nagato, he is bitter about the ninja world and wanted to change it.  Remember Obito?  He was the same way.  He hated the rules, didn't like the ninja world, very similar to Naruto.
> 
> Now if you can explain why Izuna/whoever else would want to change the ninja world for the better I'd love to hear it.  As far as I know, none of those kats gave a fuck.



Izuna, Madara, and Sasuke are all following in the Elder son's footsteps, PEACE THRU POWER, bend people to their will, peace for the shinobi world with a slight benefit of them wielding all the power and being in charge.  The moon's eye plan is Madara's plan also, it would make sense if the 2 brothers came up with the plan together?


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## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Kurama is happy to be a tool now ...



that one line just killed me a little inside


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Penance said:


> Madara referenced an accomplice, but he didn't name him.  Might've been talking about Zetsu...



Kishi also confirmed in the interview that Madara and Tobi knew/know each other.


----------



## Deva Path (Aug 11, 2012)

Obito's last words were "I wish I had more time with everyone..."

What if he did get the more time but like people have been saying, something happened so that he became a revenge whore?


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

Naruto doesn't classify Kurama as a tool, and Kurama knows he's no tool with Naruto. Naruto called him one of his comrades from Konoha. That means something, even if it means nothing to those who are skeptical of their bond.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Melas said:


> Too narrow a perspective.
> 
> Naruto's actions and regard for the bijuus combined with what Kurama knows and understands of his personality and nature were apparently enough to convince Kurama.
> 
> ...



I'm not okay with things that are pulled out of the arse, with no development whatsoever. Especially those tied with the main character. I had no problem when Gaara showed up after three years and was Kazekage. While the gap in power makes me somewhat skeptical, it's easy to dismiss. Furthermore he's a secondary character. Now a millenium year old fox being convinced by the main character, who never treated him any differently than what he resented all his life? If you think that's laughable, then do it. I'm still not going to like that lazy shit, no matter how loud you are.



> Lets try an experiment, pick an emotional transformation and I'll argue about how it is possibly inadequate.







> Also, do you bitch about every instance of a character revealing a new power when we did not see them train for it?



It depends on what it is and who it is. Everything the characters showed post timeskip, I didn't mind it. Now Sasuke's hawk summon? Sure it was foreshadowed but don't say it wasn't pulled out of the ass.


----------



## Mr. 0 (Aug 11, 2012)

Kishi trying so desperately to stall Tobi's reveal til 600


----------



## Octavian (Aug 11, 2012)

@ AMtrack: nagato and tobi are far more than just a "little misguided."


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Addy said:


> that one line just killed me a little inside



Luckily we know for a fact he'll be absorbed by the Juubi since RS announced the bijuus would become one again and they are 3 now. 

Tobi / Obito giving up halfway on this plot just means he is not relevant enough to play a part in the Rikudou succession war, which is the main plotline and involve Naruto, Sasuke, Madara and Kabuto / Orochimaru.

He'll be disposed of quickly, the cheap drama will end and then someone else will come (Sasuke or Madara), the main story will start again and we'll get rid of the annoying puppy.


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Luckily we know for a fact he'll be absorbed by the Juubi since RS announced the bijuus would become one again and they are 3 now.
> 
> Tobi / Obito giving up halfway on this plot just means he is not relevant enough to play a part in the Rikudou succession war, which is the main plotline.
> He'll be disposed of quickly and then someone else will come (Sasuke or Madara), the main story will start again and we'll get rid of the annoying puppy



if kyuubi dies, sure but unlikely


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> This thread is so entertaining to read.
> 
> Kurama is so pathetic. Naruto and him should have started having some common ground since part I, his total turn in what amounts to one day in-universe fucking sucks.



No it's not, Kurama had always known Naruto's good qualities, he just chose to ignore em.  He had been paying attention to each of Naruto's actions.  But once he finally witnessed Naruto's resolve in helping the bijuus and truly wanting to friend them and save them, he was reminded of Grandpa rikudou, Kurama and all the bijuus believe Naruto is the reincarnation of RS, and kurama loves his granpa Rikudou, why the hell won't he listen to Naruto then?



Starstalker said:


> Well...time to quit.
> I'll go read something else...other than One Piece and Bleach



You'lll be back, but do read TRACE and Shingeki no Kyojin while ur at it.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

I don't know what Mito's bindings were for Kurama but Kushina's seal was kind of hardcore.  10 years crucified should have done a nice mind fucking on Kurama.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Addy said:


> if kyuubi dies, sure but unlikely



Kyuubi will be absorbed like the other bijuus. (the bijuus will become one, not 3 like now)
Naruto will do to Juubi what RS couldn't do to him and it's likely become BFF with him. (luckily, it will be during the final fight and we won't ever have to watch them act like that)


----------



## AceBizzle (Aug 11, 2012)




----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

?Sharingan Squid? said:


> Kyuubi: Go, Naruto! There's no way you'll fail!!
> 
> Awareness of the power of plot. A crack in the fourth wall, perhaps?



Kishi is truly foolish for introducing the "Child of Prophecy." I thought it would end following the Pain Invasion Arc.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 11, 2012)

Not sure where this "Tobi (in case turning out to be Obito) doing all this because of Rin's death is stupid" is coming from. The spoiler just confirms he knows Kakashi visits his (and perhaps Rin's as well) tomb and throws another speech-mockery to him about it about why the Infinite Tsukuyomi must happen. IMO we are jumping way too much into that kind of conclusion, better wait for when the mask breaks.

As for Kishi just caring about the bromances and the "creepy" ones, the Confining the Jinchuuriki arc was mostly about how Naruto's parents met, fell in love and died protecting him (and filling him with love) because of their love to him. Looks to me he can focus on all kinds of loves. Yeah not many like MinaKushi here but I feel I had to remind that little fact.

Wonder if Kakashi will aim to rip out Obito's eyes from Tobi's eye sockets.

Naruto must be either in KCM or Bijuu Mode at the end of the chapter, but betting on it being KCM.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> I'm not okay with things that are pulled out of the arse, with no development whatsoever. Especially those tied with the main character. I had no problem when Gaara showed up after three years and was Kazekage. While the gap in power makes me somewhat skeptical, it's easy to dismiss. Furthermore he's a secondary character. Now a millenium year old fox being convinced by the main character, who never treated him any differently than what he resented all his life? If you think that's laughable, then do it. I'm still not going to like that lazy shit, no matter how loud you are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No matter how many ways you guys argue it, your criticisms are still weak. You don't understand. Naruto himself was different from anybody else Kurama had ever come across, and that was obvious. Your one mistake is assuming Naruto never treated him any differently. You're wrong about that. Naruto treated Kurama no differently from how he treated Gamabunta when he first met him. Naruto always had a innocents and lack of malice in how he handled things, and there's no way the Kyuubi wouldn't take notice of such a thing. 

What people fail to realize is that everytime Naruto did something significant for himself, or for others, in defiance of the way things are, the Kyuubi was slowly but surely being impacted by what he witnessed from Naruto.

I can't wait to see how Naruto looked as the chapter was ended. I hope he is entering that cloaked form of his, the one without bijuu mode, though.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Addy said:


> if kyuubi dies, sure but unlikely



Yeah, I want Juubi powered up.

A nice real thing would be Naruto defeating the Juubi and then extracting Kurama from the mass of chakra because he remembers how he is. This if he had a great bond with him, not... this that they have atm. If Rikudo created the tailed beasts out of a mass of hatred, Naruto truly would be his successor if he recreated them as they were before (at least Kurama, who'd then remember and recreate the other 8). Furthermore, it would prove to the tailed beasts that Naruto really cared for them, to bring them back when he no longer needed them (as Juubi would have been defeated and most likely there would be a way to dispose of it). In a manga about bonds, about acknowledgement, I think as cheesy as it sounds, this would be perfect.



SageEnergyMode said:


> No matter how many ways you guys argue it, your criticisms are still weak. You don't understand. Naruto himself was different from anybody else Kurama had ever come across, and that was obvious. Your one mistake is assuming Naruto never treated him any differently. You're wrong about that. Naruto treated Kurama no differently from how he treated Gamabunta when he first met him. Naruto always had a innocents and lack of malice in how he handled things, and there's no way the Kyuubi wouldn't take notice of such a thing.
> 
> What people fail to realize is that everytime Naruto did something significant for himself, or for others, in defiance of the way things are, the Kyuubi was slowly but surely being impacted by what he witnessed from Naruto.



And there never has been anyone as pure as Nardo. *rolls eyes* This is bullshit. Just stick a Mary Sue sticker on his forehead then. What would have worked is that there would have been a lot of people like Naruto, but Kurama had never acknowledged it because the hate was bigger than the love. However, being forced to live with one for such a long time to actually understand and be TnJ properly would have beenmuch better and would have that magic word, development.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> I'm not okay with things that are pulled out of the arse, with no development whatsoever. Especially those tied with the main character. I had no problem when Gaara showed up after three years and was Kazekage. While the gap in power makes me somewhat skeptical, it's easy to dismiss. Now a millenium year old fox being convinced by someone who never treated him any differently than what he resented all his life? If you think that's laughable, then do it.



It seems you prefer to opine and not actually counter any points. Very well. What you are "okay" with if of no concern to me, only what you can demonstrate.

You make claims about subjective standards of how the "bonds" should have been depicted over the story and fail to demonstrate why your standards of any value.

You ignore points that you do not wish to address. I mentioned how Naruto treated the bijuus differently. First, you claim that is not enough and then go back to implying that he did not.

I am already laughing at your stance, why else do you believe I continue to respond?



>



So I take it you have no counter of any substance.



> It depends on what it is and who it is. Everything the characters showed post timeskip, I didn't mind it. Now Sasuke's hawk summon? Sure it was foreshadowed but don't say it wasn't pulled out of the ass.



It seems your list of "pulled out of arse" is likely substantial in quantity. In such a case, there would seem to be a gross mismatch between the authors depiction and your standards for "pulled out of arse".

You should look into that.


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Kishi is truly foolish for introducing the "Child of Prophecy." I thought it would end following the Pain Invasion Arc.



you mean the last two arcs and this arc SHOVING DOWN OUR THROATS THAT NARUTO IS THE PROPHECY CHILD *DID NOT* GIVE YOU A _*KLUE*_ THAT KISHI IS NOT DONE WITH IT?


----------



## Hossaim (Aug 11, 2012)

so, we getting the issue tonight?

I think so judging by all the spoilers.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

Incorrect, Kurama noticed it all along. He was being changed by Naruto, but would never own up to it, especially because Naruto was simply too damn weak anyway to make a difference. After getting his ass kicked by Naruto, and being stunned by his strength, let's just say that the Kyuubi has chosen to approach Naruto from a different angle. You think the Kyuubi initiated a direct dialogue with Naruto about the war and Sasuke for his personal health? He was intrigued by Naruto. Trying to understand and learn more about him.

Just because someone doesn't say something outright, doesn't mean it isn't going on in their head.


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Hossaim said:


> so, we getting the issue tonight?
> 
> I think so judging by all the spoilers.



Late tomorrow or monday most likely.

Also all I have to say about the chap

Gogo ninja boreo.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Hope Kakashi also gets unmasked soon.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Addy said:


> you mean the last two arcs and this arc SHOVING DOWN OUR THROATS THAT NARUTO IS THE PROPHECY CHILD *DID NOT* GIVE YOU A _*KLUE*_ THAT KISHI IS NOT DONE WITH IT?



Please comprehend, Addy.

I thought he wouldn't bother with it any longer once the Pain Invasion Arc ended.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> Incorrect, Kurama noticed it all along. He was being changed by Naruto, but would never own up to it, especially because Naruto was simply too damn weak anyway to make a difference. After getting his ass kicked by Naruto, and being stunned by his strength, let's just say that the Kyuubi has chosen to approach Naruto from a different angle. You think the Kyuubi initiated a direct dialogue with Naruto about the war and Sasuke for his personal health? He was intrigued by Naruto. Trying to understand and learn more about him.
> 
> Just because someone doesn't say something outright, doesn't mean it isn't going on in their head.



Actually he said the opposite. Right before Sasuke popped up in their dimension, he was bashing Naruto for treating him like a tool and a source of power. The exact same critic the 4-tails had about humans.


----------



## Black Mirror (Aug 11, 2012)

So, Tobi was Kakashi of the other dimension all along? 














I like it.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> Incorrect, Kurama noticed it all along. He was being changed by Naruto, but would never own up to it, especially because Naruto was simply too damn weak anyway to make a difference. After getting his ass kicked by Naruto, and being stunned by his strength, let's just say that the Kyuubi has chosen to approach Naruto from a different angle. You think the Kyuubi initiated a direct dialogue with Naruto about the war and Sasuke for his personal health? He was intrigued by Naruto. Trying to understand and learn more about him.
> 
> Just because someone doesn't say something outright, doesn't mean it isn't going on in their head.



I don't mind that he was being changed nor do I dispute that Kurama was intrigued by Naruto. I just mind that Naruto did nothing _towards Kurama as an individual_ to make him change his mind, and in the sole second Naruto bothered with it was the moment Kurama rolled over and presented his belly to be patted.



Ginko25 said:


> Actually he said the opposite. Right before Sasuke popped up in their dimension, he was bashing Naruto for treating him like a tool and a source of power. The exact same critic the 4-tails had about humans.



This. Why couldn't Naruto have dropped by Kurama and sure, ask him for power, but also asking for a friendship or trying to understand Kurama? Never did. Never. Yet Kurama had no problem in believing Naruto could treat him as an individual, with no previous proof that he would.


----------



## Laocoon (Aug 11, 2012)

So wait, how is Tobi Obito again? Anyone have a timeline? I'm interested cause of this page here set the conditions where Tobi states that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Laocoon said:


> So wait, how is Tobi Obito again? Anyone have a timeline? I'm interested cause of this page here set the conditions where Tobi states that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan.



The theory is that Tobi is impersonating Madara then.


----------



## Awesome (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi also fought Hashirama at the Valley of the End. He is also Madara Uchiha. He never attacked Konoha with the Kyuubi either, it was all just a natural occurrence.

And I still lol at people saying that Tobi was too strong when he fought Minato. He was a little shit with a neat ability.


----------



## Melas (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Actually he said the opposite. Right before Sasuke popped up in their dimension, he was bashing Naruto for treating him like a tool and a source of power. The exact same critic the 4-tails had about humans.



Are the two of you even referring to the same situation?

I believe Sage was referring to a more recent talk.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Laocoon said:


> So wait, how is Tobi Obito again? Anyone have a timeline? I'm interested cause of this page here set the conditions where Tobi states that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan.



Maybe Madara did it.


----------



## Laocoon (Aug 11, 2012)

> And I still lol at people saying that Tobi was too strong when he fought Minato. He was a little shit with a neat ability.



That brings up another question, if Tobi is Obito, he should have been aware of Minato's abilities and how strong he was, given that he trained under him. Instead, it's like he had very little knowledge of how Minato fights and the extent of his power. 

Not to say that there isn't some connection between Obito and Tobi, just that I think it's not a simple Tobi = Obito, but Tobi = Obito + something/someone else.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Laocoon said:


> That brings up another question, if Tobi is Obito, he should have been aware of Minato's abilities and how strong he was, given that he trained under him. Instead, it's like he had very little knowledge of how Minato fights and the extent of his power.
> 
> Not to say that there isn't some connection between Obito and Tobi, just that I think it's not a simple Tobi = Obito, but Tobi = Obito + something/someone else.


He had knowledge about Hirashin, until Minato popped up with v2 which Obito never saw.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Not sure Obito knew Hiraishin

When Minato offered his special kunai to Kakashi, none of the kids seemed to know what it was for and he "died" before they got to use it.



loool3 said:


> He had knowledge about Hirashin, until Minato popped up with v2 which Obito never saw.



Did Kishi ever tell the difference between Hiraishin and V2 ?

To me it's like Tsunade and her new rebirth jutsu that does exactly the same thing than her Pt1 rebirth jutsu, except it has a longer name and cool tattoos ?


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Not sure Obito knew Hiraishin
> 
> When Minato offered his special kunai to Kakashi, none of the kids seemed to know what it was for and he "died" before they got to use it.



There's nothing in Kakashi gaiden to suggest that any of the kids knew anything about the technique.  But it makes sense...they were kids.  To them it just looked like Minato was really really really fast.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Did Kishi ever tell the difference between Hiraishin and V2 ?
> 
> To me it's like Tsunade and her new rebirth jutsu that does exactly the same thing than her Pt1 rebirth jutsu, except it has a longer name and cool tattoos ?


It was faster?
Tobi reacted the way to counter Hirashin, but Minato used v2 instead which is a few times faster which caught Tobi off guard?


----------



## forkandspoon (Aug 11, 2012)

Laocoon said:


> So wait, how is Tobi Obito again? Anyone have a timeline? I'm interested cause of this page here Link removed where Tobi states that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan.



Tobi is a bad guy..... bad guys are never 100% truthful.... 

Itachi told Sasuke he killed The Uchiha clan because he wanted to test his strength...


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> It was faster?
> Tobi reacted the way to counter Hirashin, but Minato used v2 instead which is a few times faster which caught Tobi off guard?



faster than instant ?


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Or he never met the adult Nagato and died while looking for him at the Mizu village while he was controling Yagura with his mask on...



very weak argument.  Madara or Tobi impersonating himself to be Madara started Akatsuki, or pursuaded yahiko to do it so either of them met Nagato, yahiko.  

Madara couldn't have done all these things, something has to be a lie: 

He and Tobi met, this is confirmed by Kishi.  For Tobi to be Obito, Madara had to have been alive least till few months after the battle of kannabi.  

Madara couldn't have given Nagato his OWN rinnegan since he would've still had EMS only, and only awakened his own personal rinnegan shortly before his death, if he met Tobito, that would be dozen years after Nagato awakened it in front of Jiraiya.  

Nagato can't be the sandaime Rikudou, he would be the Niidaime Rikudou with the true awakening.  As for why he couldn't use Mangekyou powers, it wouldn't be explained away with "oh it's simply Madara's rinnegan transplant so he can't switch" but more akin to if they were Madara's original eyeballs (not the Izuna ones he used for his EMS, but the discarded blind ones), then it's possible the Mangekyou powers were sealed within those eyes, and when implanted into Nagato, he only awakened the rinnegan powers.  

Jeeze, this is getting mindboggling.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> He had knowledge about Hirashin, until Minato popped up with v2 which Obito never saw.



How can you have a version 2 of something that's instant?  It was more instant than the previous instant?


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> It was faster?
> Tobi reacted the way to counter Hirashin, but Minato used v2 instead which is a few times faster which caught Tobi off guard?



How is instant faster than instant? I'm so confused.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Well what else is V2 guys? 
An upgraded version of the previous.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> It was faster?
> Tobi reacted the way to counter Hirashin, but Minato used v2 instead which is a few times faster which caught Tobi off guard?





loool3 said:


> Well what else is V2 guys?
> An upgraded version of the previous.



It's not faster.

The only difference is that Minato teleports to a traveling marker.

Version 1 = Marker is stationary.
Version 2 = Marker is moving.


----------



## αce (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue, our time will come.
It shall come.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Well what else is V2 guys?
> An upgraded version of the previous.



I know but it's like having complete invisibility jutsu and having a version 2.  Does it make you more invisible lol.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Rokudaime Sennin ™ said:


> very weak argument.  Madara or Tobi impersonating himself to be Madara started Akatsuki, or pursuaded yahiko to do it so either of them met Nagato, yahiko.
> 
> Madara couldn't have done all these things, something has to be a lie:
> 
> ...


But the long haired masked man clearly represents as the real Madara, the guy had a bandage on his chest while real Madara ''died'' having a sword cut through it.
Why would Kisame be tricked by a maskless Tobi? Kisame clearly said ''show me yourself, i believe hes long dead already'' which also clearly hints us that Kisame knew how the real Madara looked like.
Not only that, Itachi the guy which have been keept hardcore reffering the guy as Madara suddenly switched also calling him Tobi?
Since when had Itachi the chance to learn that the real Madara was revived?
He even called him Madara in edo form and after few chapters also Tobi, i think Itachi clearly knows the current Tobi.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Klue, our time will come.
> It shall come.



I just want this nonsense to end.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Laocoon said:


> That brings up another question, if Tobi is Obito, he should have been aware of Minato's abilities and how strong he was, given that he trained under him. Instead, it's like he had very little knowledge of how Minato fights and the extent of his power.
> 
> Not to say that there isn't some connection between Obito and Tobi, just that I think it's not a simple Tobi = Obito, but Tobi = Obito + something/someone else.


"Back then, he saw through everything I did." - Minato Namikaze

I rest my case.

But for the record, Tobi had a high level of knowledge of Minato's Hiraishin. He even explained the mechanics of it to Kushina. the only thing he didn't see coming was Hiraishin Lv2, which, as loool3 said, Obito had most likely never seen before.

And also, to the person who said he doesn't think Obito would have knowledge about Hiraishin, well, Rin recognized Hiraishin when Minato used it in Gaiden, and I highly doubt that Rin would know about it and not Obito and Kakashi.


----------



## Laocoon (Aug 11, 2012)

> Not sure Obito knew Hiraishin
> 
> When Minato offered his special kunai to Kakashi, none of the kids seemed to know what it was for and he "died" before they got to use it.



I would be surprised, Minato tagged Tobi with a seal, which he was seen doing during the Gaiden arc. Even if this stuff wasn't explicitly shown in the manga, I think it can be safely assumed that Obito had some idea of Minato's abilities given that _he trained under him_. Instead, Tobi fights Minato like he's meeting him for the first time. 



> Did Kishi ever tell the difference between Hiraishin and V2 ?



I don't think he did, but the implication seems to be that V1 is teleporting to seals on people/non moving seals, and V2 is teleporting to seals on moving (inanimate?) objects.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> And also, to the person who said he doesn't think Obito would have knowledge about Hiraishin, well, Rin recognized Hiraishin when Minato used it in Gaiden, and I highly doubt that Rin would know about it ad not Obito and Kakashi.



No, Rin said Minato's shunshin / body flicker was godly !
Reminding me of this convinced me that the kids didn't know FTG and as someone said above, just thought Minato was just that fast.


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Please comprehend, Addy.
> 
> I thought he wouldn't bother with it any longer once the Pain Invasion Arc ended.



what gave that idea at that time?  

think about it. sasuke = vengeance = nagato.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Aug 11, 2012)

Who woulda knew that 2012 Would be the Year Of Tobito & Ackwell? I Know a LOT of Naysayers are MAD now, lol


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Shikamaru Nara said:


> Well at least it's now explained how Kakashi got his MS.
> 
> Like some have already assumed, Kakashi didn't attain it through training, but since these eyes are linked, the moment Tobi was able to achieve the Mangeykou Sharingan it automatically upgraded Kakashis Sharingan to a MS.
> 
> Meaning that Tobis abilities, were developed during the time-skip.



lolwut? 

Tobi had the space/time jutsu during the kyubi attack, the jutsu which if linked to Kamui would be implied to be a Mangekyou jutsu, and he also controlled the kyubi with ease, which is another Mangekyou trait.  Tobi had the Mangekyou during the battle with Minato.  14 year old Kakashi were almost useless during that attack.


----------



## jgalt7 (Aug 11, 2012)

Rokudaime Sennin ? said:


> lolwut?
> 
> Tobi had the space/time jutsu during the kyubi attack, the jutsu which if linked to Kamui would be implied to be a Mangekyou jutsu, and he also controlled the kyubi with ease, which is another Mangekyou trait.  Tobi had the Mangekyou during the battle with Minato.  14 year old Kakashi were almost useless during that attack.



deaf ears, my friend...


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> *14* year old Kakashi were almost useless during that attack.


You mean 14-15 year old Kakashi!


----------



## Laocoon (Aug 11, 2012)

> "Back then, he saw through everything I did." - Minato Namikaze
> 
> I rest my case.
> 
> But for the record, Tobi had a high level of knowledge of Minato's Hiraishin. He even explained the mechanics of it to Kushina. the only thing he didn't see coming was Hiraishin Lv2, which, as loool3 said, Obito had most likely never seen before.



On the other hand though, there are panels which reveal ignorance on Tobi's part, like here ("you still have the flash," implying that Tobi didn't think he could), here ("he jumped again," implying that Tobi didn't think it was possible), here ("he jumped again, he's fast," implying Tobi didn't know how fast Minato was), and finally here ("I see, he must have put some sort of marking on me," implying Tobi didn't know Minato could do that). 

All these seem to suggest that Tobi really didn't know much about Minato's speed or talent, which if he trained under him, he should have a very good idea of. Especially his speed, Obito definitely would have witnessed just how fast Minato was multiple occasions... but instead, Tobi is continually shocked at Minato's speed and talent.


----------



## Yuna (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> It was faster?
> Tobi reacted the way to counter Hirashin, but Minato used v2 instead which is a few times faster which caught Tobi off guard?


V2 is just what Minato referred to his complex way of employing Hiraishin.


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## Raiden (Aug 11, 2012)

I hope Tobi turns out to be Iruka.

TAKE THAT MIZUKI.


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## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> deaf ears, my friend...



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U mad, bro?!


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

I dunno guys, maybe Tobi wasn't lying about Madara and Obito. He could be both.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:
			
		

> I dunno guys, maybe Tobi wasn't lying about Madara and Obito. He could be both.


 NO!

He only posed as Madara in order to cause a shitstorm and a war.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> I dunno guys, maybe Tobi wasn't lying about Madara and Obito. He could be both.



Having half of Tobi's face being Madara to fill the gaps and the other Obito would explain how Kisame recognised both the long haired man, which some are saying it's the real Madara, and current Tobi as the same person.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Laocoon said:


> Still, the gist of the translations are that Tobi didn't know Minato could do that... which if he were Obito, I highly doubt he'd be ignorant of that.


How does he know about the mark if he doesnt know the jutsu? 
Its clearly a translation mistake.


----------



## Addy (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> NO!
> 
> He only posed as Madara in order to cause a shitstorm and a war.



tobi is madara's incomplete clone/bastard hashirama child with obito's shraingan. 

there, i just solved it for ya


----------



## neverlandvictim (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Just checked the reaction of the japaneses on 2ch.
> 
> Obito's theory seems far less popular than it is here. The 50 or so last messages are almost only manga & Tobito bahsing.
> 
> Izuna and Kagami are still seen as credible theories over there it seems.



 They bash the Manga too? What are they saying?


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> NO!
> 
> He only posed as Madara in order to cause a shitstorm and a war.


Or he could be a changeling. Dat hair growth and shrinkage.


----------



## BroKage (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobito, Kishi? Seriously? 

 @ people who thought this guy was final villain.



Laocoon said:


> Still, the gist of the translations are that Tobi didn't know Minato could do that... which if he were Obito, I highly doubt he'd be ignorant of that.


Kishi leaves plotholes like that from time to time.

For example, Kabuto referred to Tobi as "Madara" in his own mind before even though he knew that Tobi wasn't Madara.


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> Just checked the reaction of the japaneses on 2ch.
> 
> Obito's theory seems far less popular than it is here. The 50 or so last messages are almost only manga & Tobito bahsing.
> 
> Izuna and Kagami are still seen as credible theories over there it seems.


And i thought Japanese were clever people.


----------



## Laocoon (Aug 11, 2012)

> How does he know about the mark if he doesnt know the jutsu?
> Its clearly a translation mistake.



He might know that Minato can put it on people to teleport to them, but it seems he doesn't know that Minato can put it on people/objects as quickly as he does. Right, Tobi might think it takes Minato a few seconds to mark someone, but in reality it takes him less than a second to do so.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Laocoon said:


> He might know that Minato can put it on people to teleport to them, but it seems he doesn't know that Minato can put it on people/objects as quickly as he does. Right, Tobi might think it takes Minato a few seconds to mark someone, but in reality it takes him less than a second to do so.



This is interesting. Kakashi Gaiden establishes that Minato tagged that rock ninja and then teleported to screw him over. However, later and after Obito is already under that rock with no means to know otherwise, Minato explains to a clueless Kakashi that he can also tag objects (someone mentioned this in the previous page)!



loool3 said:


> And i thought Japanese were clever people.



You forget that the demographics of Naruto is mostly 12 year olds in Japan. The west has a much older audience.


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

anyone here wants to bet against Naruto's "That jutsu" being Hirashin? or a version of it?as Naruto's way to fight against Tobi now that kakashi is out of the picture?


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> anyone here wants to bet against Naruto's "That jutsu" being Hirashin? or a version of it?as Naruto's way to fight against Tobi now that kakashi is out of the picture?


What if the jutsu is Naruto's ''TNJ''. 
Tnx to the Kyuubi he witnessed pain so he TNJ everyone around, which he probably also needs against Tobi.


----------



## ironblade_x1 (Aug 11, 2012)

I like the idea that Tobi is/was multiple people. Maybe Tobi was Madara at one point in time. Maybe Madara had the mask after his fight with Hiruzen (everyone thought he was dead after that fight, remember. Maybe the mask concealed his identity for the rest of his life). 

And when Madara was near death and had to pass it on, Obito was #2.


----------



## Laocoon (Aug 11, 2012)

> NO!
> 
> He only posed as Madara in order to cause a shitstorm and a war.



I'm not so sure, since 1. Madara seems to know about him and 2. When he explains Izanagi during his fight with Konan, he has no reason to keep up the act that he's Madara since Konan is about to die anyway. Why continue the act, unless he honestly believed that he was Madara?


----------



## Raiden (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> You forget that the demographics of Naruto is mostly 12 year olds in Japan. The west has a much older audience.



About the age of the 7th grade middle school boys the mangaka said the manga is geared towards .

Very depressing to accept tho.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Thread rating went from three stars to two stars. So much butthurt. 



Laocoon said:


> I'm not so sure, since 1. Madara seems to know about him and 2. When he explains Izanagi during his fight with Konan, he has no reason to keep up the act that he's Madara since Konan is about to die anyway. Why continue the act, unless he honestly believed that he was Madara?



It's just how he rolls. Tobi continued his act as Madara even after Kabuto ratted Madara's Edo too.


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> Thread rating went from three stars to two stars. So much butthurt.



We all knew this day was coming lol!  Oh it will be a glorious day in the telegrams if it actually becomes official.


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

this thread is making me remember the old days here in the telegrams, keep it up


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Som1 10 star it already.


----------



## Face (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> anyone here wants to bet against Naruto's "That jutsu" being Hirashin? or a version of it?as Naruto's way to fight against Tobi now that kakashi is out of the picture?



Well seeing as there is no other way to harm Tobi, I'm willing to bet it is a T/S technique. Just a much better version of what Hiraishin was. Hopefully he can use to defend and attack as well.

Just like this: 

When he explains Izanagi


When he explains Izanagi


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

its alrady time to see naruto using uzumaki stuff

maybe its not hirashin, i doesnt need to be, but it could be some epic sealing technique


----------



## vered (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> this thread is making me remember the old days here in the telegrams, keep it up



yea me too.
there are only a few more topics other than that one to get such a reaction.
so jeanne what is your bet for Naruto's "that jutsu?"


----------



## Talis (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> its alrady time to see naruto using uzumaki stuff
> 
> maybe its not hirashin, i doesnt need to be, but it could be some epic sealing technique


Karin will teach it.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 11, 2012)

I really like this, though. It sounds to me like Tobi if he's Obito is just flat out disappointed in Kakashi. He thinks Kakashi should have been stronger, strong enough to protect Rin, and in his final moments he entrusted Kakashi with a very important objective, and Kakashi failed to do those things in his own twisted view, believing Kakashi has been reduced to someone who simply makes excuses at the graves of those whose trust he betrayed.

Obviously someone twisted Obito/Tobi into thinking this way, but sometimes that's all it takes.


----------



## Laocoon (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> i continued his act as Madara even after Kabuto ratted Madara's Edo too.



I don't think so, given that when the real Madara is revived (and thus stripping Tobi of his assumed identity), he basically admits that he's "no one," i.e. doesn't even have an identity. Usually when the fake identity is revealed, the real identity comes to surface, but for Tobi, he doesn't seem to have anything behind his assumed identity. For whatever reason, he honestly believes that he's Madara. 

He, quite literally, has become the mask.


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Kyuubi is giving Hinata a run for her money as Naruto's biggest fan.

[sp=also]the game [/sp]


----------



## emanresu (Aug 11, 2012)

it just doesnt make sense . how can Obito be Minato level so fast. 
and genius kakashi at best was just some  fodder background character during the Kyuubi intrusion


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

emanresu said:


> it just doesnt make sense . how can Obito be Minato level so fast.
> and genius kakashi at best was just some  fodder background character during the Kyuubi intrusion



Before the Uchiha regular geniuses are as nothing.


----------



## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> yea me too.
> there are only a few more topics other than that one to get such a reaction.
> so jeanne what is your bet for Naruto's "that jutsu?"


i dont know really...>.>


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

I don't think there will be a that jutsu anymore. It was the bijuu dama.

Naruto has been given Jiraiya's scroll, but didn't even bother open it. Instead he played the "Rasengan is the base for bijuu dama and that's what Minato was trying to do" card 
There won't be another training, Kishi dropped the idea. Heck, making Obito Naruto's final villain (not counting Sasuke) shows Kishi is even sacrificing Naruto for the sake of giving Kakashi's development.


----------



## Ichiurto (Aug 11, 2012)

vered said:


> yea me too.
> there are only a few more topics other than that one to get such a reaction.
> so jeanne what is your bet for Naruto's "that jutsu?"



You still believe in 'that jutsu'?


----------



## Face (Aug 11, 2012)

Obito would have been quite powerful shinobi had he survived that whole incident. Imagine him having both Kamui and Tobi's T/S technique?


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## Jesus (Aug 11, 2012)

Face said:


> Obito would have been quite powerful shinobi had he survived that whole incident. Imagine him having both Kamui and Tobi's T/S technique?



Makes you wonder why he never tried to take that eye back...


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Karin will teach it.



Why aren't there interaction between these two yet? They are practically cousins. They should be going around together, doing obnoxious things. And then she would teach him stuff no one else could learn. It would be pretty cool.

In fact, why hasn't Karin showed any sealing powers. Kishi.


----------



## Chibason (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm not one to point out plot holes....like ever...

...but, there is no reason that Tobito would not have wanted his eye back from Kakashi...


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

What would be nice about Tobi having Obito's eye would be if Kakashi managed to grab it off Tobi. So that Kakashi is like the second coming of Obito. Because the idea that Tobi stole part of Obito's legacy from Kakashi doesn't sit well with me.


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## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Face said:


> Obito would have been quite powerful shinobi had he survived that whole incident. Imagine him having both Kamui and Tobi's T/S technique?



And Uchitards say the power of the eyes depend on the talent of the user.

Obito shows that the power of the eyes is a lottery ! 

Well at least Obito was right. He surpassed Kakashi once awakening his sharingan. I can't believe the writer of Naruto Pt1 made it happen.


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Face said:


> Obito would have been quite powerful shinobi had he survived that whole incident. Imagine him having both Kamui and Tobi's T/S technique?


I wonder who his parents were. Probably to Uchiha like the Uzumaki are to Senju?


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## Jeαnne (Aug 11, 2012)

Chibason said:


> I'm not one to point out plot holes....like ever...
> 
> ...but, there is no reason that Tobito would not have wanted his eye back from Kakashi...


........





































.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Anyways, since we've got the spoilers for this chapter, here's my prediction for Chapter 598:

Naruto: This time, I'll break that mask off for real!

Tobi: You're just a kid! You can't do anything against my eyes! I'll destroy you!

*Tobi and Naruto leap at each other and start fighting*

Kakashi: (I don't understand... This doesn't add up. He's dead!)

Guy: Kakashi, get it together, be ready for action!

Kakashi: Right. Sorry.........

*Naruto punches Tobi and of course, his fist goes right through him.*

Naruto: (Damn it! That ghost ability of his is really pissing me off!)

*Naruto jumps back*

Naruto: Hey, why don't you stay solid and stop fighting so cowardly?!

Tobi: Who do you think you are, telling me what to do?! I'll never listen to any of you ignorant fools! Especially not one trained by _him_! *Looks at Kakashi*

Naruto: ?!

Kakashi: *Saddened look on his face* ................

*Gedo Mazo's screaming starts getting louder and the earth starts quaking more.*

Naruto, Kakashi, Guy, and Bee: ?!

Tobi: The Juubi's resurrection is finally upon us! No longer will there exist a world such as this! One that is full of empty, meaningless words and broken promises! Soon, all will be united with me! I shall be complete!!!! 

Tobi: *Notices Naruto's not with the rest* WHAT?! Where'd he-

*BM Naruto slams his powered up forehead straight in to Tobi's already damaged mask*

Tobi: *GAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!* *Gets blasted into a rock wall*

*Tobi's mask cracks and shatters into pieces*

Naruto: Wh- what the? Your face...

Guy: I- isn't he-?!

Bee: Who the?!

Kakashi: I- I didn't think it was true... I didn't want to accept it... But now I have no doubt about it. It really is you... 

*Continued on next page*

Kakashi: ...*OBITO!!!!*

*Chapter ends with a close up of Obito's now very much angry face*

Flavor text at the end says: "Obito, the true identity of Tobi, is finally revealed!! How is this possible?!"


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## Seraphiel (Aug 11, 2012)

Ginko25 said:


> And Uchitards say the power of the eyes depend on the talent of the user.
> 
> Obito shows that the power of the eyes is a lottery !
> 
> Well at least Obito was right. He surpassed Kakashi once awakening his sharingan. I can't believe the writer of Naruto Pt1 made it happen.



Erm sorry but you still have to have reflexes on par and calculate at the speed tobi does. Else he would never been able to fight Minato like he did.


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## AMtrack (Aug 11, 2012)

Chibason said:


> I'm not one to point out plot holes....like ever...
> 
> ...but, there is no reason that Tobito would not have wanted his eye back from Kakashi...



How exactly would he go about getting it?  Kakashi is a very talented ninja in his own right, so it's not like he can just sneak up on him and snatch it.  And he can't just attack him in the middle of Konoha.  He would have the entire village+village anbu on him.  Tobi is a planner.  Attacking Kakashi would pretty much prevent him from keeping a low profile and carrying out his plans successfully.  It would have been stupid.


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## R00t_Decision (Aug 11, 2012)

I want to fly to Brazil and meet Tobito.


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## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

AMtrack said:


> How exactly would he go about getting it?  Kakashi is a very talented ninja in his own right, so it's not like he can just sneak up on him and snatch it.  And he can't just attack him in the middle of Konoha.  He would have the entire village+village anbu on him.  Tobi is a planner.  Attacking Kakashi would pretty much prevent him from keeping a low profile and carrying out his plans successfully.  It would have been stupid.



Are you serious ? Tobi could get the Kyuubi back from Kushina, but getting an eye from a Kakashi is impossible ?

Especially after meeting Kakashi twice in the wilds already ?


----------



## Face (Aug 11, 2012)

Jesus said:


> Makes you wonder why he never tried to take that eye back...



Yeah... and he could have taken it quite easily. Just like he could have captured Naruto numerous times before the war started.



Ginko25 said:


> And Uchitards say the power of the eyes depend on the talent of the user.
> 
> Obito shows that the power of the eyes is a lottery !
> 
> Well at least Obito was right. He surpassed Kakashi once awakening his sharingan. I can't believe the writer of Naruto Pt1 made it happen.



I know what you mean. MS jutsu progression usually has more to do with what they experience emotionally rather than the amount of skill the user has.




Rainbow Dash said:


> I wonder who his parents were. Probably to Uchiha like the Uzumaki are to Senju?




Probably both Uchiha and Uzumaki. jk


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> Are you serious ? Tobi could get the Kyuubi back from Kushina, but getting an eye from a Kakashi is impossible ?
> 
> Especially after meeting Kakashi twice in the wilds already ?


Um, I don't think Tobi would want the whole village on his ass just to get his old eye back, which he doesn't even need. He might have wanted to re-claim it at a later time.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 11, 2012)

Had Obito lived, with the jutsus we're seeing he would've been capable of unlocking, the way things played out with the Uchiha would not have happened.  Just one of those "what ifs" had just one tiny detail of the past been different.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

What if Tobi starts pretending he is Obito like he was pretending to be Madara ?

Some of his Madara actions don't make any sense if he is Obito (chilling out on Madara's statue, seeing Hashirama in Naruto and obsessing about a Naruto Sasuke fight)

You know maybe after watching Star Wars, Kishi read Dune and Tobi would have somehow Alia's powers.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

what's the point of wanting his eye back when he was using his left eye for izanagi only to ultimately get the rin'negan transplanted in that eye.


----------



## Face (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Um, I don't think Tobi would want the whole village on his ass just to get his old eye back, which he doesn't even need. He might have wanted to re-claim it at a later time.



Honestly I doubt he would have had to deal with Konoha at all. There were many times when Tobi could have taken Kakashi. Long before Akatsuki was discovered. If Tobi had warped in and taken Kakashi into the other dimension, no one would have known where to look for him.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm not sure how much longer I can wait for this chapter. Hopefully it will come out tomorrow.


----------



## Wonder Mike (Aug 11, 2012)

R00t_Decision said:


> I want to fly to Brazil and meet Tobito.



Wut? 

How did you know he was here?


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> Honestly I doubt he would have had to deal with Konoha at all. There were many times when Tobi could have taken Kakashi. Long before Akatsuki was discovered. If Tobi had warped in and taken Kakashi into the other dimension, no one would have known where to look for him.


True, very true.

But, Nic has brought up an interesting point.


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Mike Von J said:


> Wut?
> 
> How did you know he was here?



Hmm

Wasn't the football player who protested a referee's call by moonwalking on the pitch called Tobi and Brazilian ?

EDIT :
Yes he was


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> what's the point of wanting his eye back when he was using his left eye for izanagi only to ultimately get the rin'negan transplanted in that eye.



Excellent point.

Obito's left eye Mangekyou is shit.


----------



## Face (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> True, very true.
> 
> But, Nic has brought up an interesting point.



Must have missed it.


----------



## Dolohov27 (Aug 11, 2012)

The forth sealed the Kyuubi in Naruto so he could have help defeating his weakest student Obito. Sounds legit


----------



## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Excellent point.
> 
> And on that note, there is really little reason to keep the remaining Sharingan eye he has now. Why not two Rinnegans?



Tobi's actions don't make any logical sense either way.

He is not fleshed out as a character, but to throw off the readers. At least until his identity is revealed.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Dolohov27 said:


> The forth sealed the Kyuubi in Naruto so he could have help defeating his weakest student Obito. Sounds legit


----------



## Gabe (Aug 11, 2012)

damn the there has been a lot of posts.  last time  was when pain blow up kohona if i remember right. 

i dont know but i hope the mask comes off soon. looks like naruto is taking over the fight. i dont think he will use that jutsu yet. i think he will use  bijuu mode


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## Revolution (Aug 11, 2012)

Kurama would be able o understand Sasuke's resentment of the leaf because the same village imprisoned and crucified him for years as well.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Lol@ people that are still denying it.

The eyeshape and eyelid line creasing when closing the eyelid a little is exactly the same. the exact same oval shape.

It is 100% Obito's body at the very least. Even when their eyes are open fully, the eyelids match, so does the eyeshape.

Eyebrows are an obvious match. So no need to explain it.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Kakashi: ...*OBITO!!!!*







> "Obito, the true identity of Tobi, is finally revealed!! _*How is this possible?!*_"


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin ? (Aug 11, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Lol, its pretty stupid considering it's coming from a former spirit of hate turned pokemon.



bijuus were never spirits of hate. yes they had hate in their hearts towards the shinobi but that's because of the way they were treated by those same shinobi.  They were just another victim of the ninja system being used for their chakra/power.  

Kyubi being a malicious full of hate creature was simply perceptions of the people who fell victim to the controlled attacks kyubi was forced to committ.  All bijuus are sentient beings capable of thought and able to emote just like any human, they can be full of love or hate.  as shown by the bijuus fondness of grandpa Rikudou.


----------



## Sound Village (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> *Tobi's mask cracks and shatters into pieces*
> 
> Naruto: Wh- what the? Your face...
> 
> ...




Fixxxxed.


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi = Obito's body, Rin's spirit.


----------



## KevKev (Aug 11, 2012)

Lol why are people posting in the spoiler thread?


----------



## 9thw0nder (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Lol@ people that are still denying it.
> 
> The eyeshape and eyelid line creasing when closing the eyelid a little is exactly the same. the exact same oval shape.
> 
> ...



Can you give me a link to a theory they makes sense?


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

9thw0nder said:


> Can you give me a link to a theory they makes sense?



Zetsu found his body, Madara revived him with the Rinne Tensei, told him Rin died, sent Obito in a fit of rage, and convinced him to see to his life's work.


----------



## Lurko (Aug 11, 2012)

I can't wait for chapter.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> Can you give me a link to a theory they makes sense?


Nice grammar, bud.

Aww, pissed and in denial cuz of the pic. No worries, dude. You're just like the rest of the haters.

Aww, sweet victory.


----------



## Dolohov27 (Aug 11, 2012)

Tobi: it all because you let Rin die Kakashi


----------



## 9thw0nder (Aug 11, 2012)

Dolohov27 said:


> The forth sealed the Kyuubi in Naruto so he could have help defeating his weakest student Obito. Sounds legit



Holy shit somebody sig this shit lmfao.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

Even their fucking facial structure matches.


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. It might not be due to Rin alone. Sure that if it's Tobito, he's emotional due to confronting Kakashi, but that is to be expected. But there might be other reasons for his turn. It's Madara after all, he knows a lot of shit secrets about how Leaf (supposedly) treated the Uchiha. I wonder if we're getting some insight into that. There's this supposed segregation and fear which we never really seen. Sasuke doesn't remember it, Itachi is too bias towards the Leaf to reflect, but Obito would be the right age to start reflecting on these things.


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> Tobi: it all because you let Rin die Kakashi


Trying to put his motive in jest just cuz you're in denial is not going to change facts at all.

Btw, for further explanation on his motive and the reasoning behind it, I suggest looking a little farther back in the thread, or check out a recent post of mine in the Tobi's Identity Thread.


----------



## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Dolohov27 said:


> The forth sealed the Kyuubi in Naruto so he could have help defeating his weakest student Obito. Sounds legit



yeah you're right it's not like team minato paralleled team kakashi, whatsoever, just no way.


----------



## KevKev (Aug 11, 2012)

Nevermind, until that mask comes off I'm sticking with No One, Tobi, or FES. 

COME AT ME BROS!!


----------



## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

Nic said:


> yeah you're right it's not like team minato paralleled team kakashi, whatsoever, just no way.



Kakashi is no Minato, just no way.


----------



## 9thw0nder (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Nice grammar, bud.
> 
> Aww, pissed and in denial cuz of the pic. No worries, dude. You're just like the rest of the haters.
> 
> Aww, sweet victory.



1. My bad on the grammar auto correct on my phone sucks.
2. I personally don't give a darn. After itachi being a good guy i'm used to kishi's shitty writing and i've thought it was obito since the 7th/8th grade so whatever. The only thing that's bothering me I'd the timeline doesn't match up.
3. Obito being tobi means that he'll just be another villain kishi will redeem.
4. The good side to this means that tobi isn't the final villain


----------



## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

I agree. If Tobito is true, he isn't final villain.



Klue said:


> Kakashi is no Minato, just no way.



True. Kakashi isn't boring.


----------



## flashyondy (Aug 11, 2012)

if tobi is really obito how did kurama recognize him when he controlled him to fight the 4th. there would be no where in the time line where obito would of met kurama for him to recognize him or am i just missing something?


----------



## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> Kakashi is no Minato, just no way.


Of course he's not Minato. He just parallels him.

He has Rasengan.


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## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Kakashi is no Minato, just no way.



you're right and kakashi is no obito.   I can feel your delicious tears from here Klue.


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## Gabe (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> True. Kakashi isn't powerful.



fixed for the truth


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## BlinkST (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Kakashi is no Minato, just no way.


You serious bro?


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## mlc818 (Aug 11, 2012)

Nimander said:


> Had Obito lived, with the jutsus we're seeing he would've been capable of unlocking, the way things played out with the Uchiha would not have happened.  Just one of those "what ifs" had just one tiny detail of the past been different.



Seriously.  Obito would not have allowed the Uchiha to start a petty but dangerous civil war, and would not have passively accepted Konoha's decision on the massacre.  Just as Naruto wouldn't have been able to accept that as a solution, since Obito was essentially UchihaNaruto. And even one of the Kakashi/Tobi jutsus makes you Kage level... Obito could have had two (or three with Susanoo) after the war had he survived.  (Definitely if Rin had still died)


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## Klue (Aug 11, 2012)

BlinkST said:


> You serious bro?



Yes, indeed.

Kakashi is a failure.


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## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> 1. My bad on the grammar auto correct on my phone sucks.


Okay, lol.


> 2. I personally don't give a darn. After itachi being a good guy i'm used to kishi's shitty writing and i've thought it was obito since the 7th/8th grade so whatever. The only thing that's bothering me I'd the timeline doesn't match up.


I don't see how either of those are shitty writing. I guess you don't like a complex plot.


> 3. Obito being tobi means that he'll just be another villain kishi will redeem.


Well, a theme of the manga is redemption.


> 4. The good side to this means that tobi isn't the final villain


Not good for me. Tobi's my favorite character.

And how does him being Obito make him not FV?


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## Sareth (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> *OBITO!!!!*


Look, I understand that you're happy, but aren't you getting a little ahead of yourself?  Nothing has been confirmed yet. I still think Tobi is the Elder Son using Obito's body. Hell, he might even be the Younger Son, with all his talk about being entrusted with things, that you ultimately do not agree with. The Younger Son was entrusted with Rikudou's dream of peace. How did that turn out?


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## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

9thw0nder said:


> 4. The good side to this means that tobi isn't the final villain



And we would get to see Madara fodderizing Tobi (since Naruto's TNJ is poison that kills everyone it touches in Pt2)


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## BlinkST (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Yes, indeed.
> 
> Kakashi is a failure.


Don't even play like that


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## mlc818 (Aug 11, 2012)

Klue said:


> Yes, indeed.
> 
> Kakashi is a failure.



Kakashi just lacked motivation, he's probably stronger than Gaara, Mei, and maybe even Tsunade by now. 

He's no Minato, but Minato is superbland in comparison so Kakashi wins out in the end.  I haven't seen Minato reading any dirty books, or getting any funny reaction shots to jokes ;p


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## NW (Aug 11, 2012)

> Yes, indeed.
> 
> Kakashi is a failure.


Yeah, he talked flippantly bout protecting Rin, and he failed, so Obito didn't get his wish of Rin being safe. he shouldn't have entrusted Kakashi with it because Kakashi's a failure.

See what I did there?

Go re-read the spoilers from Geg if you didn't.


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## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

I still have hope one of the antagonists won't fall for Naruto's TnJ. It is very tiny, but it still exists.


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## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

So, for "them" ?
Wanna bet they are lame ass Uzumaki ? Karin's relatives ? And that she'll be with them ?

They will mirror Obito. They will be third rate ninjas of the opposite branch of RS descendants that know more than they should and stronger than what they should logically be.
And they will have a reason to feel betrayed by Sasuke. (ie Karin)

Anyways, badassness will leave the manga once PNJ gets rid of Madara


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## Octavian (Aug 11, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Okay, lol.
> I don't see how either of those are shitty writing. I guess you don't like a complex plot.
> Well, a theme of the manga is redemption.
> Not good for me. Tobi's my favorite character.
> ...



because edo madara is on the loose and i don't think he'll be happy that tobi didn't proceed in resurrecting him as planned.


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## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Octavian said:


> because edo madara is on the loose and i don't think he'll be happy that tobi didn't proceed in resurrecting him as planned.



And the main plot is about stopping the feud between Rikudous's descendants, not stopping some retard to brainwash the whole world because the girl he loved died.

If it's Obito, Madara won't be pleased to see what the thrash he picked intended to do with the Moon Eye Plan and will fodderize Tobi.


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## Golden Circle (Aug 11, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> I agree. If Tobito is true, he isn't final villain.


I agree with this. But not for that reason.

It is quite possible that there is no Final Villain in Naruto. The biggest enemy from day one has been bigotry, prejudice and hatred. In this respect, Tobi and Naruto are fighting the same enemy and following the same mission but in different ways: how to eliminate hatred.


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## Nic (Aug 11, 2012)

Sareth said:


> Look, I understand that you're happy, but aren't you getting a little ahead of yourself?  Nothing has been confirmed yet. I still think Tobi is the Elder Son using Obito's body. Hell, he might even be the Younger Son, with all his talk about being entrusted with things, that you ultimately do not agree with. The Younger Son was entrusted with Rikudou's dream of peace. How did that turn out?



he just has a personal grudge out of the blue against kakashi.


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## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> I agree with this. But not for that reason.
> 
> It is quite possible that there is no Final Villain in Naruto. The biggest enemy from day one has been bigotry, prejudice and hatred. In this respect, Tobi and Naruto are fighting the same enemy and following the same mission but in different ways: how to eliminate hatred.



Except Tobi already laughed admitting he didn't give a shit about peace, unlike Nagato.
He just want to control his little world.


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## KevKev (Aug 11, 2012)

Naruto.


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## Raiden (Aug 11, 2012)

Chapters out! Reading at the speed of light.


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## Deva Path (Aug 11, 2012)

CHAPTER OUT SONS


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## KevKev (Aug 11, 2012)

Lol Evolution of Naruto
Reminds of me of a certain man...Ichigo


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## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

WOOOOHOOOOO IT'S OUT.


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## Ginko25 (Aug 11, 2012)

lame lame lame


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## ch1p (Aug 11, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> I agree with this. But not for that reason.
> 
> It is quite possible that there is no Final Villain in Naruto. The biggest enemy from day one has been bigotry, prejudice and hatred. In this respect, Tobi and Naruto are fighting the same enemy and following the same mission but in different ways: how to eliminate hatred.



I wouldn't mind this actually. Naruto is light, Tobi is darkness. It makes thematic sense for this VS fight to be the last, not VS Sasuke.


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## emanresu (Aug 11, 2012)

lmao. kishi doesnt even know whats he's explaining in the manga. even kishi is confuse with this whole s/t thingy.

the attempt to explain tobi face was partially in other dimension is ridiculous


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## Octavian (Aug 11, 2012)

damn that gesture by tobi when talking to kakashi...

i'm still hanging on to the last vestiges of hope that it isn't obito tho


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## ch1p (Aug 12, 2012)

Inner nerd paid off at last.


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## Ginko25 (Aug 12, 2012)

Thus said, I love how Kishi and his editor keep going on "come on guys, it's the climax, be excited, please"
That was already in Kishi's latest interview, and his editor is starting to sing the same song.

It's the first time in my life I see someone being forced to announce the climax out of fear his readers / spectators won't notice.
Kishi doesn't seem very confident in what he planned.


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## Last shinobi (Aug 12, 2012)

lol tobi = obito this forum is going down


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## Mike N Nike0 (Aug 12, 2012)

I don't understand how this chapter made any theorist fans believe that Tobi's definitely Obito. It's officially out now.


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 12, 2012)

YES YES YES! Naruto enters that bad ass cloaked form I've been waiting to see him go back into again. This is what I believe to be his ultimate form unless he will somehow later be shown to literally be able to combine both version 2 of KCM with Sage Mode.

Fantastic explanation of Tobi's Space-Time Ninjutsu. Kakashi's ability is so underrated, but I think that we will get a double dose of motivation out of Kakashi as well for the remainder of this fight. We may get ourselves a double unmasking. Kakashi AND Tobi both unmasked soon?

And it looks very much like Tobi might indeed be Obito to me. Sure as hell seems like it alright. Next chapter will officially be the most anticipated chapter in the manga's history 

Damn shame we'll have to wait for like two weeks to see it.


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## Russo (Aug 12, 2012)

Mike N Nike0 said:


> I don't understand how this chapter made any theorist fans believe that Tobi's definitely Obito. It's officially out now.



oh u kish

*Spoiler*: __


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 12, 2012)

Naruto is going to be so badass in the next chapter. I knew that awesome looking cloak wasn't just something he could only use in Bijuu Mode, like some suggested it was.

Because he used that cloak to easily block and deflect the five bijuu dama before entering into bijuu mode.


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## son_michael (Aug 12, 2012)

Russo said:


> oh u kish
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



so amazing


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## Sound Village (Aug 12, 2012)

Magical moment.


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## Mider T (Aug 12, 2012)

I really like the cover for this chapter, reminded me of the ending for the first series "Scenario"


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## YelloWhite (Aug 12, 2012)

I guess this is the end of the Tobi = Obito theories.


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## Mider T (Aug 12, 2012)

Why do you say that?  The question still hasn't been answered this chapter, if anything you'll see the resurgence of the threads.


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## gehad (Aug 12, 2012)

Can't believe that Tobi is Obito after all this time , but now it makes sense Obito's right part of his body was smashed and this explains why his right arm liquifies also his left eye which he gave to Kakashi is the on with the rinnegan . Congrats for all the Obito=Tobi supporters .


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## YelloWhite (Aug 12, 2012)

Mider T said:


> Why do you say that?  The question still hasn't been answered this chapter, if anything you'll see the resurgence of the threads.



I say it because to me it doesnt make sense. Tobi was a grown man when he was fighting Minato, while kakashi and the rest were still young. Hey may have Obito's eye, but then again, he has a lab full of sharingan eyes. it just doesnt make sense to me.


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## Mider T (Aug 12, 2012)

What part of "it hasn't been answered yet" do you not understand?


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Aug 12, 2012)

lol that still doesn't explain the bazillion plotholes kishi left


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## iheartsenpai (Aug 12, 2012)

Hahaha I'm crying that it Tobi might (is? Confirmed???) be Obito orz orz. Way to troll us, Kishi.


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## NarutoSamaMan (Aug 12, 2012)

Does anybody know why Kakashi isnt getting tired from using his Kamui?


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## Golden Circle (Aug 12, 2012)

NarutoSamaMan said:


> Does anybody know why Kakashi isnt getting tired from using his Kamui?


He has a bigger chakra base now.

As for not becoming blind, (this is my pet theory,) Tobi appears to be a master of his sharingan, and so Kakashi doesn't go blind because they are linked.


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## Hikarigaiden (Aug 12, 2012)

Yo

It seems what you make of Tobi having Obito's eye depends on where you stood before.
The people who believe he is Obito are reinforced in that belief, and the ones who does not are also.

I got into the Tobito-discussion very late, but what's striking to me is that when presented with say  (some arguments there are not that strong, some are), people have to come up with explanations so far-fetched and intricate, you might as well claim Ten Ten is Tobi.

The way I see it, Tobi having Obito's eye is just another indicator he is not Obito.


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## General Mael Radec (Aug 12, 2012)

ugh, TOBI DONT LOOOOSE


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## BlazingInferno (Aug 12, 2012)

Didn't Shino make that theory where Tobi sends his body parts into another dimension back in the Itachi Pursuit arc? And I sure hope Tobi isn't Obito and just has his eye.


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## Hinata Is Shikaku Nara (Aug 12, 2012)

BlazingInferno said:


> Didn't Shino make that theory where Tobi sends his body parts into another dimension back in the Itachi Pursuit arc? And I sure hope Tobi isn't Obito and just has his eye.



mmmm. I don't think so.


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## 4000TMNT (Aug 12, 2012)

Are we getting a chapter this week.


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## Gabe (Aug 12, 2012)

4000TMNT said:


> Are we getting a chapter this week.



we already got this weeks chapter next one wont come out till august 22


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## ilike222 (Aug 13, 2012)

Tobi is Kakashi's counterpart from another dimension.

Kakashi has white hair Tobi has black hair

They both wear masks

They both have Obito's eyes

Obito gave Kakashi his left eye Alternate dimension Obito gave Tobi his right eye

Also counter philosophies.


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## Klue (Aug 13, 2012)

Fuckin' Obito.


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## Shikamaru Nara (Aug 13, 2012)

Klue said:


> Fuckin' Obito.


Not confirmed.But very, very likely.

Although I must say that the fact that it's confirmed to be Obitos eye somehow makes me wonder how Kishi intents to surprise us with the mask coming off.

If it's indeed Obito, there has to be more he's hiding.Besides the explanation how he survived and all.


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## son_michael (Aug 13, 2012)

Klue said:


> Fuckin' Obito.




take it!


take it in the ass


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## Osaeri (Aug 13, 2012)

man im so mad at naruto and his big mouth holy shit


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## Boradis (Aug 15, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> I still have hope one of the antagonists won't fall for Naruto's TnJ. It is very tiny, but it still exists.



There are plenty it hasn't worked on already:


Orochimaru
Kabuto
Kimimaru
Kakuzu
Sasori
Sasuke (so far, and I doubt it ever will)
Tobi (same as Sasuke, otherwise what's the point of the character?)

That's just off the top of my head.

For TnJ to work the character has to either base their jerkiness on a disprovable fact, or be somewhat sympathetic to Naruto's goals. Nagato was motivated by a desire for peace and only differed on the strategy—well, and the value of human life. Gaara was only an asshole because he felt he was truly alone in the world until he met Naruto. Neji was only an asshole because he naively saw the world in terms of social hierarchy.

Characters like Orochimaru, Sasuke, and Tobi are immune to TnJ (so far at least ) because they don't give a shit about peace, love and understanding.


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