# 'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation



## アストロ (May 25, 2012)

> (CNN) -- Is the overuse of video games and pervasiveness of online porn causing the demise of guys?
> *Increasingly, researchers say yes, as young men become hooked on arousal, sacrificing their schoolwork and relationships in the pursuit of getting a tech-based buzz.*
> Every compulsive gambler, alcoholic or drug addict will tell you that they want increasingly more of a game or drink or drug in order to get the same quality of buzz.
> Video game and porn addictions are different. *They are "arousal addictions," where the attraction is in the novelty, the variety or the surprise factor of the content. Sameness is soon habituated; newness heightens excitement*. In traditional drug arousal, conversely, addicts want more of the same cocaine or heroin or favorite food.
> ...



*source*: 

Interesting study. I do agree with what some of the article is saying though.


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## Lina Inverse (May 25, 2012)

Interesting article is interesting

someone should translate all that and give a copy to Japan


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## Saufsoldat (May 25, 2012)

Sexist, biased and incredibly dishonest article.



> Yet research reported in the Annual Review of Public Health suggests a link between violent video games and real-life aggression: Given the opportunity, both adults and children were more aggressive after playing violent games. And people who identify themselves with violent perpetrators in video games are able to take aggressive action while playing that role, reinforcing aggressive behavior.



While this is technically correct, they conveniently ignore that these effects were only observed for several minutes directly after playing the game. No neutral study has ever shown negative long-term effects on aggressive bahavior.


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## アストロ (May 25, 2012)

^I'm sure several cases were taking into regard before they drew that conclusion. I'm kind of more convinced about consequences of living a secluded life of gaming and watching porn, that will eventually lead to not being able to socially equip you with taking risks in jobs and relationships. I found that more or less substantial. Others are able to deal with it and others probably not. 
The whole video game leading to violence thing is a bit controversial, but i believe hold a kernel of truth since it has been addressed numerous times.


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## Zaru (May 25, 2012)

Saufsoldat said:


> Sexist, biased and incredibly dishonest article.


It's basically saying: The only solaces many men find from the chore that is living in the disappointing society surrounding them, and the frustration that is dating (or lack thereof), are bad things and need to be stopped. 



Saufsoldat said:


> While this is technically correct, they conveniently ignore that these effects were only observed for several minutes directly after playing the game. No neutral study has ever shown negative long-term effects on aggressive bahavior.



These "video games make you violent" claims are retarded. I'll believe in an instant that they make you less shocked by violence, depending on what you play.
But there are TONS of things that can make you temporarily more aggressive. Have these researchers never driven a car in heavy traffic, dealt with lazy government officials, played team sports etc.?


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## Nightblade (May 25, 2012)

basically, get the fuck out of your basement.


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## アストロ (May 25, 2012)

Nightblade said:


> basically, get the fuck out of your basement.



Otakus and NEETs


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## Karsh (May 25, 2012)

I think, as in everything, that those things aren't a bad thing as long as there's a healthy balance with other things in life.

Team sports is my outlet for my pent up violence, I got into kangaroo court for it.


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## Bioness (May 25, 2012)

> *Norwegian mass murder suspect Anders Behring Breivik reported during  his trial that he prepared his mind and body for his marksman-focused  shooting of 77 people by playing "World of Warcraft" for a year and then "Call of Duty" for 16 hours a day.*


What the fuck...

Also anyone who takes this article seriously needs to read this.


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## アストロ (May 25, 2012)

All in all i think temperance and self-control is key. As long as you don't push yourself too far.


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## Hatifnatten (May 25, 2012)

How can the only two good things about a generation ruin it?


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## Roman (May 25, 2012)

To me it sounds like another ploy by the media to discourage the use of video games and porn. Sure, both of those things in excessive quantities is damaging to a person's social life, but in controlled doses, it does no harm. I'm a fan of Assassin's Creed and Metal Gear Solid, yet I don't go around sneaking in a suit trying to kill people with a gun or a sword, or just generally beating people up. 

There are multiple other factors to consider when examining how aggressive someone is rather than pinning it down completely on one or two things. Breivik, for instance, strikes me as the very classical psychopath. Video games didn't make him that way. Even if he played WoW days on end and CoD 16 hours a day, those were more likely to be instruments for him to express his already existing desire to kill others.

As I said a long time ago in another thread, video games can do just as much good as they do harm. They can inspire people to do things, stimulate people's creativity (there have been studies to support this claim as well) and an assortment of other things. Porn is ok as well so long as people realize that no amount of stimulation one can get from watching two others on a screen going at it can compare to actually being close to the one you love. The example of the man being kicked out by his wife, for instance, may have had a previously existing obsession with porn following a life of relative solitude. While I'm not saying this is a fact, it is quite possible. 

The article makes it sound like video games and porn are an exaggeration in and of themselves and then use examples of extreme cases to support the claim. That's the flaw in the article's argument.


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## Zaru (May 25, 2012)

Bioness said:


> What the fuck...


WoW was actually discussed in Breivik's trial. Any person who has any idea about video games would dismiss the importance of WoW the second it's brought up, but the people dealing with such a trial have an urgent lack of knowledge. I lol at this everytime there's some psychopath shooting stuff up and the media checks which games he played.


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## Saufsoldat (May 25, 2012)




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## Zaru (May 25, 2012)

And people wonder why so many men choose to just stay the fuck inside and fap


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## Rios (May 25, 2012)

But we are killing hundreds and thousands of demons and zombies, what we do is a good thing.


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## Karsh (May 25, 2012)

Zaru said:


> And people wonder why so many men choose to just stay the fuck inside and fap



And men have been actively ruining women's lives for thousands of years as well. We can go on forever in this fashion.
It's a rather boring and circular finger pointing at genders we have here in this forum.


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## Horu (May 25, 2012)

What else do they expect from a society that has everybody waiting to turn 18 before taking on any level of adult responsibility? Lifestyle and relational habits are ingrained at far earlier ages, and they become harder to change or break the longer you wait. The recent development of the "adolescence" phase of life, and the way everybody treats teenagers as overgrown children instead of young adults, is the primary culprit behind most of these career/social underachievement cases. People have a way of living up to expectations, and the low expectations placed on young adults ultimately creates a self-fulfilling prophecy of low accomplishments. Excessive game play and porn usage are simply side-effects.


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## @lk3mizt (May 25, 2012)

Zaru said:


> And people wonder why so many men choose to just stay the fuck inside and fap



  

damn 

on the research material... I find it very interesting. I can somehow see the point of how porn/games make real life interactions awkward at best and difficult at worst. I'm a real life example of that. I find every relationship that requires anything more than the occasional text msg or tweet too much to handle 

But much of the article is just bullshit and the media overstating things. as usual.


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## Gaawa-chan (May 25, 2012)

40% of all gamers are female.  And many, many women watch porn.



> Similarly, video games also go wrong when the person playing them is desensitized to reality and real-life interactions with others.



Show me ONE non-agenda-driven study that illustrates this effect.  ONE.

This article is beyond retarded, going on full veg.


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## Zaru (May 25, 2012)

Karsh said:


> And men have been actively ruining women's lives for thousands of years as well. We can go on forever in this fashion.
> It's a rather boring and circular finger pointing at genders we have here in this forum.


We're talking about current western countries here. The situation is reversed in a lot of places, but those aren't the places who indulge in porn and videogames, either 

Tell me, is there any bullshit equivalent to ruining someone's life, taking away their freedom and future chances as well as their reputation, on top of stealing money from an unrelated 3rd faction, with a simple lie, and getting away with it EVEN IF THE TRUTH IS REVEALED?


Gaawa-chan said:


> 40% of all gamers are female.  And many, many women watch porn.


But how many of those 40% are just playing browser games or social stuff like dancing and singing games? Hint: Most of them. Those aren't the gaming habits the researchers had a problem with.


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## neko-sennin (May 25, 2012)

Zaru said:


> It's basically saying: The only solaces many men find from the chore that is living in the disappointing society surrounding them, and the frustration that is dating (or lack thereof), are bad things and need to be stopped.



lol, of course. We haven't built enough orphanages yet, either. 

Life is largely disappointing, unless you either assert yourself at a level that is seldom allowed in our densely crowded societies, or seriously lower your expectations to that of dogs or cattle. Historically, most folks turn to either the bottle or the Opiate of the Masses to cope with this simple reality.

For some of us, even the gift of creativity also doubles as a curse, as our escape hatch also leads to vistas of the world as it could be, rather than as mediocrity and conformity confine it to being. 



Zaru said:


> These "video games make you violent" claims are retarded. I'll believe in an instant that they make you less shocked by violence, depending on what you play.



I agree that it's also very individual and idiosyncratic, and most of the cases against video games take the most extreme cases and try to apply them to everybody. They fail to take into account how others can play these games for hours a day, and yet our streets have failed to turn into a war-torn battlefield.

I, for one, have played some pretty violent and brutal games in my lifetime, and yet it has done remarkably little to blunt how much real-life violence and brutality shock me when they occur.



Zaru said:


> But there are TONS of things that can make you temporarily more aggressive. Have these researchers never driven a car in heavy traffic, dealt with lazy government officials, played team sports etc.?



Exactly. Most of the people who have played violent games and committed real-life acts of violence already possessed an affinity for violent behavior, which means that anything that inspires heightened aggro in people would have had the same exaggerated effect on them. 



Lupin III said:


> I'm kind of more convinced about consequences of living a secluded life of gaming and watching porn, that will eventually lead to not being able to socially equip you with taking risks in jobs and relationships.



I'll agree with you wholeheartedly about the effects of seclusion, as there are decades worth of reputable studies showing the negative effect isolation has on about 99% of the human population, and am inclined to carve away all of the politics and sensationalism of this piece to point out that it is really boils down to a sound argument against letting children develop patterns of isolation that could hinder their personal and psychological development.



Lupin III said:


> The whole video game leading to violence thing is a bit controversial, but i believe hold a kernel of truth since it has been addressed numerous times.



In my experience, repetition does not make things true. On the other hand, it's been a long-noted societal trait that repeating something seems to cause a lot of folks to start believing it's true anyway. 



Gaawa-chan said:


> 40% of all gamers are female.  And many, many women watch porn.



This one speaks truth.


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## Roman (May 25, 2012)

Zaru said:


> And people wonder why so many men choose to just stay the fuck inside and fap



1. Way to derail a topic. I tip my hat to you, sir.

2. That's a highly localized example that has no relevance to how women are treated by men and vice-versa. Men have and in a lot of cases still do repress women, even in the west albeit with a lot more subtlety. Also, men can just as easily get away with such things given the "right" circumstances.

And people wonder why they have such short-sighted views on women.


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## Murdoc (May 25, 2012)

The article is very exaggerating and can't really be generalized.


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## Golden Circle (May 25, 2012)

I fail to see the problem that the article paints. Ain't anything wrong with video games or preferring inside rather than the outside.

And if it makes people more aggressive then problem is with the person, not the game, who can't separate fiction from reality.


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## Karsh (May 25, 2012)

Zaru said:


> We're talking about current western countries here. The situation is reversed in a lot of places, but those aren't the places who indulge in porn and videogames, either
> 
> Tell me, is there any bullshit equivalent to ruining someone's life, taking away their freedom and future chances as well as their reputation, on top of stealing money from an unrelated 3rd faction, with a simple lie, and getting away with it EVEN IF THE TRUTH IS REVEALED?



Wtf?
What's the difference from me bringing up a an example of man *insert doing something bad to* woman and then making it into a men's collective characteristic?

Honestly I thought you were different Zaru


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## AfterGlow (May 25, 2012)

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they allow disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." 
- Gijsbert van Hall, 1966


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## Zaru (May 25, 2012)

Karsh said:


> Wtf?
> What's the difference from me bringing up a an example of man *insert doing something bad to* woman and then making it into a men's collective characteristic?
> 
> Honestly I thought you were different Zaru



Oh, so that's your problem. I never said it's "women's collective characteristic". If I thought more than 10% of women in these countries would behave like her, I'd be the fuck outta here.

My point was that something like that is even POSSIBLE. That the laws, the court system, the public opinion allows for things like that to happen. Men have done worse to women, obviously, but would they have to fear no repercussions for admitting them? Obviously not.


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## Karsh (May 25, 2012)

Zaru said:


> Oh, so that's your problem. I never said it's "women's collective characteristic". If I thought more than 10% of women in these countries would behave like her, I'd be the fuck outta here.
> 
> My point was that something like that is even POSSIBLE. That the laws, the court system, the public opinion allows for things like that to happen. Men have done worse to women, obviously, but would they have to fear no repercussions for admitting them? Obviously not.



Oh now I see what you mean as well.
The way you commented I got the idea you were making a broad statement.

Yes that is indeed a social problem that I can't say I understand myself if there was no foul play in the first place from the accused.

whoa 10% is a LOT, that's rather tolerant of you


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## Lmao (May 25, 2012)

>minority of gamers being retarded 

"Video games make you violent"

Insightful research right here


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## impersonal (May 25, 2012)

Lupin III said:


> *source*:
> 
> Interesting study. I do agree with what some of the article is saying though.



I've been saying that a lot in the past in this forum, regarding both porn and video games. But the prevailing culture is that _"if it doesn't hurt anyone else, let people be"_, that anyone who doesn't find porn to be the most awesome thing in the world is a stuck-up conservative, and anyone who sees anything wrong with video games is a loon.

The fact is, both have negative effects. While they should not be banned, measures should be put in place to inform people, to help them maintain their distance or to give them the means to stop altogether. As is already done with cigarettes or alcohol.

For example, ISPs can use "opt-in" options for porn: you don't get access to any pornographic internet material, unless you specifically ask for it when you subscribe. Similar safeguards could be put up for video games, eg. limitations in playtime (easier to enforce today, now that everything is centralized on external servers). Nothing needs to be forced: just make sure to ask people -- _"Are you sure you REALLY want to do that?"_

But the core of the issue is cultural change, and it goes further than just porn or video games. The general concept is that activities with long-term rewards should be preferred. Masturbation or playing video games are typical activities with short term rewards and no long-term advantage whatsoever (or very low advantages); but watching TV or many internet-related activities are no different, most of the time... Ask yourselves: would you be a more awesome person now, if you had learnt to play the guitar and to kickbox like a pro during your teenage years, instead of playing guitar hero and street fighter 4 hours a day? The former activities give less immediate rewards, but 10 years later you're fit, confident and you can express yourself musically. The latter activities are tons of fun, but ten years later you're boring and fat.

...PS: sure, moderate use of video games and porn is not life-destroying, but it's like junk food and alcohol: it tastes good and you can handle moderate portions. But the least you take, the better. Hey, I enjoy the occasional beer or video game, among other things. But I still think as a society, we should not encourage either of these things.


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## ez (May 25, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]wSF82AwSDiU[/YOUTUBE]

This is in reply to Zimbardo.


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## Roman (May 25, 2012)

AfterGlow said:


> "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they allow disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
> - Gijsbert van Hall, 1966



I don't really agree with this quote. It's true that children love luxury, but they can be taught to have good manners, particularly by example. If a child misbehaves, it's not always because the child is naturally a problem. The parents' inattentiveness may have just as much to do with it as the child himself.

I especially disagree with the quote's claim that children are tyrants rather than servants. For starters, if parents feel they're being controlled by the child, something on their end isn't being done right. A parent should allow the child freedom to express themselves in the household while at the same time letting them know when they cross a certain line. Same goes for teachers. If they feel they're being controlled by the children as well, they're not doing something right either.

I take more issue with the claim that the child ought to be a servant of the household. I don't know the context under which this claim was made, but at first sight it seems as if van Hall believes children should be completely subservient to the parents regardless of reasoning and obey them without question. That's now how children should be raised. It makes me wonder what he's saying when children contradict their parents. When that means simply questioning their decision in seeking an understanding, then I disagree. If they still commit wrongdoings despite parents having explained and given the child the chance to understand, then the quote is right.



Zaru said:


> My point was that something like that is even POSSIBLE. That the laws, the court system, the public opinion allows for things like that to happen. Men have done worse to women, obviously, but would they have to fear no repercussions for admitting them? Obviously not.



So it's the reasoning that causes social issues like this to happen that people have gross misinterpretations of concepts such as video games and porn?


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## AfterGlow (May 25, 2012)

Freedan said:


> I don't really agree with this quote. It's true that children love luxury, but they can be taught to have good manners, particularly by example. If a child misbehaves, it's not always because the child is naturally a problem. The parents' inattentiveness may have just as much to do with it as the child himself.
> 
> I especially disagree with the quote's claim that children are tyrants rather than servants. For starters, if parents feel they're being controlled by the child, something on their end isn't being done right. A parent should allow the child freedom to express themselves in the household while at the same time letting them know when they cross a certain line. Same goes for teachers. If they feel they're being controlled by the children as well, they're not doing something right either.
> 
> I take more issue with the claim that the child ought to be a servant of the household. I don't know the context under which this claim was made, but at first sight it seems as if van Hall believes children should be completely subservient to the parents regardless of reasoning and obey them without question. That's now how children should be raised. It makes me wonder what he's saying when children contradict their parents. When that means simply questioning their decision in seeking an understanding, then I disagree. If they still commit wrongdoings despite parents having explained and given the child the chance to understand, then the quote is right.



You hear that? It's the sound of the point flying over your head.

Point is, some idiots will always find various ill-founded points to push their agenda on to the public. Every generation thinks the next generation is out of control, and will find things to blame for this.


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## Roman (May 25, 2012)

AfterGlow said:


> You hear that? It's the sound of the point flying over your head.
> 
> Point is, some idiots will always find various ill-founded points to push their agenda on to the public. Every generation thinks the next generation is out of control, and will find things to blame for this.



Yes, I understand that. I'm not saying I disagree with you, I said from the very start that I disagree with the quote.


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## sadated_peon (May 25, 2012)

> Guys are also totally out of sync in romantic relationships, which tend to build gradually and subtly, and require interaction, sharing, developing trust and suppression of lust at least until "the time is right."



What this is saying is that women don't like to have to compete against video games and porn. 

If this means that women now have to take more initiative in building relationships, and it is no longer social accepted that it is up to the man, I am all for it.


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## Roman (May 25, 2012)

sadated_peon said:


> What this is saying is that women don't like to have to compete against video games and porn.
> 
> If this means that women now have to take more initiative in building relationships, and it is no longer social accepted that it is up to the man, I am all for it.



That or men could take more initiative and show that they care to have a relationship more than being driven purely by their lust, which tends to be the case when a guy has mountains of porn in his hard drive.


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## Mael (May 25, 2012)

The "demise of guys" was brought on more by crappy political correctness, emasculating feminism (instead of equalizing feminism), and hypersensitivity amongst parents and educators.

Porn and VG are but minor issues easily controlled, as impersonal said, by self-awareness training and moderation.


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## Linkdarkside (May 25, 2012)

Horu said:


> What else do they expect from a society that has everybody waiting to turn 18 before taking on any level of adult responsibility? Lifestyle and relational habits are ingrained at far earlier ages, and they become harder to change or break the longer you wait. The recent development of the "adolescence" phase of life, and the way everybody treats teenagers as overgrown children instead of young adults, is the primary culprit behind most of these career/social underachievement cases. People have a way of living up to expectations, and the low expectations placed on young adults ultimately creates a self-fulfilling prophecy of low accomplishments. Excessive game play and porn usage are simply side-effects.


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## Toroxus (May 25, 2012)

*The demise of science: How agenda-based research and intentional methodological flaws degrades the public credibility of an entire field.*


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## Roman (May 25, 2012)

Mael said:


> The "demise of guys" was brought on more by crappy political correctness, emasculating feminism (instead of equalizing feminism), and hypersensitivity amongst parents and educators.
> 
> Porn and VG are but minor issues easily controlled, as impersonal said, by self-awareness training and moderation.



Exactly. Like I said before, anything in excess is harmful. But having small doses is perfectly fine on the other hand.


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## HolyHands (May 25, 2012)

impersonal said:


> But the core of the issue is cultural change, and it goes further than just porn or video games. The general concept is that activities with long-term rewards should be preferred. Masturbation or playing video games are typical activities with short term rewards and no long-term advantage whatsoever (or very low advantages); but watching TV or many internet-related activities are no different, most of the time... Ask yourselves: would you be a more awesome person now, if you had learnt to play the guitar and to kickbox like a pro during your teenage years, instead of playing guitar hero and street fighter 4 hours a day? The former activities give less immediate rewards, but 10 years later you're fit, confident and you can express yourself musically. The latter activities are tons of fun, but ten years later you're boring and fat.



The only real disadvantage of video games is that most are not physically involving, which is a health issue more than anything. And obesity in general is more of a society issue than a gaming issue. Most people who bash gamers for being fat are usually packing a few extra pounds themselves.

The idea that playing video games makes you "boring" is rapidly dying out though. Video games are becoming more social than ever before, and nowadays it's possible to make a living off of playing video games, either by playing them competitively or by simply being an online personality who talks about games and shares their insights. You have online game reviewers who earn massive fanbases, and people who stream themselves and earning money by simply playing games and entertaining their viewers.

Playing video games all by yourself 100% of the time will definitely make you boring, but those who reach out to the gaming community actually have a lot to do.


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## Buskuv (May 25, 2012)

This is from CNN?

This sounds like another quasi-scientific Soccer Mom blog post about her son doesn't play enough sports and make her proud enough to brag about him at her PTA meetings.  Soccer Mom science is truly a profoundly frightening thing, especially when pared with asinine logical conclusion and a mass of idiots just waiting to gobble it up.


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## ez (May 25, 2012)

The converging evidence on videogames & violence:


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## Adagio (May 25, 2012)

I'm not going to bother looking in to pages and pages of conversation and evidence but all I have to say is that in any case where evidence tends to support the notion that videogames somehow nurture violence in individuals one should also look at other environmental variables, especially bad parenting. 

Once you have a look at that, perhaps you can have a better understanding and a clearer picture. Attributing the entire blame on just one factor is just retarded. Especially when its minor in comparison to other ones.


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (May 25, 2012)

Real women are too complicated.


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## Gunners (May 25, 2012)

Zaru said:


> And people wonder why so many men choose to just stay the fuck inside and fap


When I play violent video games I don't feel like doing a thing afterwards, when I read articles like that I actually feel like choking the offending bitch. Clearly Saufsoldat is on to something.


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## Mael (May 25, 2012)

Gunners said:


> When I play violent video games I don't feel like doing a thing afterwards, when I read articles like that I actually feel like choking the offending bitch. Clearly Saufsoldat is on to something.



Sometimes I admit to wanting to buy a pump-action and taking on the Wehrmacht zombie hordes in the ruins of 1945 Germany.


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## sadated_peon (May 25, 2012)

Freedan said:


> That or men could take more initiative and show that they care to have a relationship more than being driven purely by their lust, which tends to be the case when a guy has mountains of porn in his hard drive.


What? That is the status quo.

Men are supposed to take the lead in relationships, they are supposed to initiate contact, they are supposed to plan/schedule dates, etc

The female status quo is the be "wooed"


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## Roman (May 25, 2012)

sadated_peon said:


> What? That is the status quo.
> 
> Men are supposed to take the lead in relationships, they are supposed to initiate contact, they are supposed to plan/schedule dates, etc
> 
> The female status quo is the be "wooed"



I don't mean that out of any adherence to status quo. I mean that a woman shouldn't be made to feel like she should compete with women who sacrificed their dignity for a career. It carries with it implications that a woman has to at least come very close to sacrificing her own to satisfy the man. It's even worse if the woman is nonexistent (hentai). Idk about you (I realize that perhaps you're not being serious about it anyways) but I find that objectifies women pretty heavily.


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## lazer (May 25, 2012)

Games and porn are desensitizers and not bringers of ruin.


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## sadated_peon (May 25, 2012)

Freedan said:


> I don't mean that out of any adherence to status quo. I mean that a woman shouldn't be made to feel like she should compete with women who sacrificed their dignity for a career. It carries with it implications that a woman has to at least come very close to sacrificing her own to satisfy the man. It's even worse if the woman is nonexistent (hentai). Idk about you (I realize that perhaps you're not being serious about it anyways) but I find that objectifies women pretty heavily.


Where to begin, first you say that women sacrifice their dignity. This seems to first imply your major opinion of porn in general. You have a confirmation of your sexual repression so that it degrades other women for what they do choose to do. 
(Do you understand that there are men in porn as well? Have they given up their dignity?)

Next, women shouldn't have to compete with women in porn? Are you implying that you dislike that men expectation of sex in a relationship?
That men's wants in a relationship do no matter, and men's part in a relationship should only be to accommodate what a woman requires. 
Or do you have some sort laughable belief that porn makes men think that all women should have sex with them at a drop of a hat like in porn. Because if this is what you think the expectations of men are after watching porn, then I am insulted by your assumption at the lack of my intelligence. 

But here let me give you a counter example... we should ban cosmopolitan magazine. 
Men should not have to compete with the women's fantasy of the idea man, and should not have to sacrifice himself to satisfy the woman. The idealized fantasy and romanticization of men in this magazines (and those like it is pathetic), it gives an unrealistic benchmark from which to judge the actions of men in a relationship.

In the end I feel that you accept a status quo where men must confirm to a womans ideal of a relationship, and this is example of men would rather beat of then deal with it. (which considering it's a shitty substitutes says a lot)


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## Huey Freeman (May 25, 2012)

Did you know a girlfriend stabbed her boy friend on mother day because she just got a card from him ? I bet she hasnt played any video games in her life time .

I can play call of duty all I want but that won't make me an expert marks man with an assault rifle . 

How exactly one can get such training from playing WoW . 

This article...my mind is full of fucks ....


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## αce (May 25, 2012)

I'm getting tired of porn. And I'm single.
How the fuck do you watch *that* much porn in a relationship?


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## Roman (May 25, 2012)

sadated_peon said:


> Where to begin, first you say that women sacrifice their dignity. This seems to first imply your major opinion of porn in general. You have a confirmation of your sexual repression so that it degrades other women for what they do choose to do.
> (Do you understand that there are men in porn as well? Have they given up their dignity?)



Sexual repression........what?

I won't deny that I don't have that high of an opinion on porn in general (I'm not gonna say I'm completely innocent). At the same time, if a woman wants to do a porn shoot, I'm not going to stop it. Perhaps she doesn't have any other choice, as unfortunate as I find it, but it remains that the woman has sex for money and shows it to thousands if not millions of people in the world. I don't find that to be necessarily a clean career option, if you know what I mean.

But like I said, I'm not completely innocent so I digress.



sadated_peon said:


> Next, women shouldn't have to compete with women in porn? Are you implying that you dislike that men expectation of sex in a relationship?



I dislike it when men develop expectations which are too high of a woman: they must be beautiful, they must be able to get into positions they may or may not be uncomfortable with, they must have a certain type of body, and so on. Many women can't meet certain expectations. Sure, men will have them, I have them, but there are those people who're so obsessed with porn that they'll have these extreme expectations of a woman, which isn't necessarily good for her, not to mention could make her feel insecure. There has to be a compromise.



sadated_peon said:


> That men's wants in a relationship do no matter, and men's part in a relationship should only be to accommodate what a woman requires.
> Or do you have some sort laughable belief that porn makes men think that all women should have sex with them at a drop of a hat like in porn. Because if this is what you think the expectations of men are after watching porn, then I am insulted by your assumption at the lack of my intelligence.



Please refrain from making assumptions about me. I don't have any such belief. I haven't done that for you, so I don't see why you have to go off on me like this. Read back to my earlier posts and you'll see that I've argued that the negatives of porn and video games only generally arise when either entertainment outlet is exercised in excessive quantities. That's been the whole premise of my argument here the entire time.


----------



## αce (May 25, 2012)

Karsh said:


> And men have been actively ruining women's lives for thousands of years as well. We can go on forever in this fashion.
> It's a rather boring and circular finger pointing at genders we have here in this forum.



We're talking about current society.
There's no way a man could do this and not face any charges.


Maybe it's off topic, but I'm fucking tired of how bias the law is towards women. Fuck.


----------



## Coteaz (May 25, 2012)

I love being ruined like this.

Ruin me more.


----------



## Stalin (May 25, 2012)

Personally, I think it just reveals how weak they are anyway if they get addicted to this stuff.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (May 25, 2012)

Coteaz said:


> I love being ruined like this.
> 
> Ruin me more.



Everyone needs to be ruined, then no one will be ruined.


----------



## Mintaka (May 25, 2012)

> emasculating feminism (instead of equalizing feminism)


Explain....


----------



## ez (May 25, 2012)

Mintaka said:


> Explain....



 ...


----------



## Shock Therapy (May 25, 2012)

lol what useless nonsense. back to playing LoL


----------



## Mael (May 25, 2012)

Mintaka said:


> Explain....



I guess I was about to elaborate on the postmodernist thought behind an almost Dworkin-esque mentality of male guilt and the propensity to rape as if it was hardwired into boys, but ezxx helped me out.  Boys are being mollycoddled into being confused lumps of dependence on motherly figures and in some cases continutously at the mercy of their significant others when older.  Asserting yourself as a "man" has now been met with either an Al Bundy form of stereotype or the ridiculously liberal notion of it being some form of patriarchy that fills the vocabulary of radicals.  Feminism in some regards has no longer been about equalizing the barries between man and woman but now focused on making men guilty for being men.  The guy culture is being undermined by the refusal to understand that sometimes men need to be men and not have to keep their humor or enjoyment (within legal and ethical bounds) without this inherent need to "get in touch with feelings" or emasculate themselves to appease the PC gods.


----------



## Petes12 (May 25, 2012)

Zaru said:


> Oh, so that's your problem. I never said it's "women's collective characteristic". If I thought more than 10% of women in these countries would behave like her, I'd be the fuck outta here.
> 
> My point was that something like that is even POSSIBLE. That the laws, the court system, the public opinion allows for things like that to happen. Men have done worse to women, obviously, but would they have to fear no repercussions for admitting them? Obviously not.



the problem is if finding out she was lying meant she were charged, she would never have recanted


Also I'm always extremely skeptical when i see articles like this.


----------



## Gunners (May 25, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> the problem is if finding out she was lying meant she were charged, she would never have recanted
> 
> 
> Also I'm always extremely skeptical when i see articles like this.



What is there to be skeptical about? Really speaking the woman should be fined, charged with fraud and perverting the court of justice. 

What she did was down right evil.


----------



## Petes12 (May 25, 2012)

sorry, to be clear im skeptical about the original post's article, about games and porn

and yeah i agree she should go to jail. but if she were threatened with a jail sentence she'd have just stuck with her lie


----------



## Lebron Flocka James (May 25, 2012)

*This is true some of you foreveralones need to do a no fap................

Your body and mind will change for the better................*.


----------



## Nikushimi (May 25, 2012)

Somehow, I still think the sun is gonna rise on tomorrow.


----------



## PureWIN (May 25, 2012)

This article is complete garbage. 

(1) It's sexist: 40% of gamers are female, and I think ~20% of admitted porn viewers are female.

(2) They use the broad term "video games" when in reality they are probably talking about "extremely violent games". I doubt a game like Sonic the Hedgehog or DDR would cause aggression or violence.

(3) If you overlap the population of males who watch porn and/or play video games, the article is really talking about a very small subset of that combined population, and an even smaller one of the entire male population.



impersonal said:


> The fact is, both have negative effects. While they should not be banned, measures should be put in place to inform people, to help them maintain their distance or to give them the means to stop altogether. As is already done with cigarettes or alcohol.



Videos game already have a rating system (similar to the movies) and porn is only for adults.



> For example, ISPs can use "opt-in" options for porn: you don't get access to any pornographic internet material, unless you specifically ask for it when you subscribe. Similar safeguards could be put up for video games, eg. limitations in playtime (easier to enforce today, now that everything is centralized on external servers). Nothing needs to be forced: just make sure to ask people -- _"Are you sure you REALLY want to do that?"_



Why the hell is that necessary when the person can simply choose not to visit the website? Porn is not forced upon anyone.

We don't need these type of nanny-state safeguards. Adults should act like responsible adults, and parents should actually parent their children.



> But the core of the issue is cultural change, and it goes further than just porn or video games. The general concept is that activities with long-term rewards should be preferred. *Masturbation or playing video games are typical activities with short term rewards and no long-term advantage whatsoever (or very low advantages)*; but watching TV or many internet-related activities are no different, most of the time... Ask yourselves: would you be a more awesome person now, if you had learnt to play the guitar and to kickbox like a pro during your teenage years, instead of playing guitar hero and street fighter 4 hours a day? The former activities give less immediate rewards, but 10 years later you're fit, confident and you can express yourself musically. The latter activities are tons of fun, but ten years later you're boring and fat.



Wrong. Male masturbation helps relieve stress and prevent prostate cancer. Those are both great long-term effects. Video games help increase hand-eye coordination, critical thinking, and a myriad of other positive effects. Also, not all videos involve sitting down these days. Ever heard of the Xbox Kinect or Nintendo Wii?



> ...PS: sure, moderate use of video games and porn is not life-destroying, but it's like junk food and alcohol: it tastes good and you can handle moderate portions. But the least you take, the better. Hey, I enjoy the occasional beer or video game, among other things. But I still think as a society, we should not encourage either of these things.



The only thing society should do is encourage people to have self-control and to be cognizant of how they spend their time. We don't need finger wagging at specific vices.


----------



## Magicbullet (May 25, 2012)

What bullshit.


----------



## Petes12 (May 25, 2012)

this was pretty funny i thought



> It is, of course, a horrible vision of a future in which grossly over-worked women are forced to run the entire world of human affairs, while men busy themselves between the twin joys of Brazzers and Battlenet.
> 
> When these pale haggard creatures are forced to venture out into the real world, perhaps to purchase some tissues, they find a place that is much less interesting than ‘MILF Lesbo Honeys’ and Call of Duty had led them to believe, and so they shrink back into their sordid little dens for more epic self-gratification frenzies


----------



## WT (May 25, 2012)

The only reason why I don't support the ban of video games is because it'll have an adverse effect in an industry which will effect the economy resulting in unemployment etc etc etc.

Other than that, yes video games is for retards.

Haven't played once since like forever.


----------



## Petes12 (May 25, 2012)

White Tiger said:


> The only reason why I don't support the ban of video games is because it'll have an adverse effect in an industry which will effect the economy resulting in unemployment etc etc etc.
> 
> Other than that, yes video games is for retards.
> 
> Haven't played once since like forever.



don't forget to ban tv and movies while we're at it


----------



## Nikushimi (May 25, 2012)

White Tiger said:


> The only reason why I don't support the ban of video games is because it'll have an adverse effect in an industry which will effect the economy resulting in unemployment etc etc etc.
> 
> Other than that, yes video games is for retards.
> 
> Haven't played once since like forever.



Just because you don't like them doesn't mean the people who do are retarded.

Videogames are just an interactive form of entertainment. There is nothing inherently wrong with that; it's only when you start talking about abuse/excess that videogames become a problem, but too much of anything is bad.


----------



## WT (May 25, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> don't forget to ban tv and movies while we're at it



I didn't ask for it to be banned 

The economy *needs* gullible and stupid consumers.


----------



## Mintaka (May 25, 2012)

White Tiger said:


> I didn't ask for it to be banned
> 
> The economy *needs* gullible and stupid consumers.


You would fit in nicely.


----------



## WT (May 25, 2012)

Mintaka said:


> You would fit in nicely.



But I'm neither gullible or stupid 

I'm intelligent and rational.


----------



## Basilikos (May 25, 2012)

White Tiger said:


> Other than that, yes video games is for retards.
> 
> Haven't played once since like forever.


Am I the only one that sees the problem with this post?


----------



## Gin (May 25, 2012)

White Tiger said:


> But I'm neither gullible or stupid
> 
> I'm intelligent and rational.


The fact that you feel it's your place to judge millions of people based on their choice of entertainment does indeed lead me to believe that you are embarrassingly stupid.


----------



## Mintaka (May 25, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> Am I the only one that sees the problem with this post?



You mean the irony?


----------



## the_notorious_Z.É. (May 25, 2012)

PureWIN said:


> I doubt a game like *Sonic the Hedgehog* or DDR would cause aggression or violence.



There have been many Sonic games in recent times that made me want to torture and kill many people.


----------



## Petes12 (May 25, 2012)

saying media entertainment has no value except for stupid people is remarkably stupid


----------



## Saufsoldat (May 25, 2012)

White Tiger said:


> Other than that, yes video games is for retards.



Should I even comment on the fact that you just messed up the grammar in a sentence in which you called most of the people living in the western world retards?

Are card games and board games for retards? If not, when exactly does the transition happen?


----------



## Nikushimi (May 25, 2012)

White Tiger said:


> I didn't ask for it to be banned
> 
> The economy *needs* gullible and stupid consumers.



What is gullible or stupid about playing videogames as a form of entertainment?



White Tiger said:


> But I'm neither gullible or stupid
> 
> I'm intelligent and rational.



If you are really intelligent and rational, then why are you begrudging people their entertainment preferences and correlating these with intelligence/mental development? What is intelligent or rational about that?


----------



## WT (May 25, 2012)

You're right. It was unfair of me to say that.

I just suck at them


----------



## WT (May 25, 2012)

Saufsoldat said:


> Should I even comment on the fact that you just messed up the grammar in a sentence in which you called most of the people living in the western world retards?
> 
> Are card games and board games for retards? If not, when exactly does the transition happen?



Monopoly is cool.

Forget the rest.


----------



## Petes12 (May 25, 2012)

coughchesscough


----------



## WT (May 25, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> coughchesscough



And that


----------



## Nikushimi (May 25, 2012)

DDR teaches children curbstomping and should be banned.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (May 25, 2012)

So much focus on violent video games, but no focus on a continually and greater cultural acceptance of violent movies. I am disappointed. Die Hard should be banned from the video stores. 

Also, even if the claims of this study were 100% accurate, porn and VG would go on forever. Honestly, no would care if it does "insert". Maybe some big pointless story would come out every once in a while, but things would stay the same. It's the same for Casino's or alcohol being legal. Get over it.


----------



## PureWIN (May 25, 2012)

the_notorious_Z.?. said:


> There have been many Sonic games in recent times that made me want to torture and kill many people.





Nikushimi said:


> DDR teaches children curbstomping and should be banned.



Thank you guys for zeroing in on my arbitrary examples of harmless video games and discussing them.


----------



## Awesome (May 25, 2012)

There is no need to point out how biased and sexist this is. 

I will state that I won multiple spelling awards in my elementary grades due to learning how to spell almost all of my vocabulary by reading the subtitles in games. In my later years, salutatorian and multiple honor awards. I was also one of the most calm when it came to violent situations. I've been playing video games since I was 4, including violent ones.

And video games are the cause of all of these things. They affect everyone in the same way.


----------



## kazuri (May 25, 2012)

If porn and videogames didnt exist, the suicide rate would be far higher I think.


----------



## Magicbullet (May 25, 2012)

trolol, there are so many things wrong with that article it's not even funny, just kidding, it's still funny


----------



## Gaawa-chan (May 25, 2012)

And in other news, Shigeru Miyamoto has won a Prince of Asturias Award for Communication and Humanities.


Suck it, haters. 




Gunners said:


> When I play violent video games I don't feel like doing a thing afterwards, when I read articles like that I actually feel like choking the offending bitch. Clearly Saufsoldat is on to something.





Nothing cools my temper like squishing ten thousand goombas or so.




kazuri said:


> If porn and videogames didnt exist, the suicide rate would be far higher I think.



I actually agree, though I don't think the numbers would be too significant.


----------



## trollface (May 25, 2012)

Agree with this article 99%. I know all of this is true and still going on because first and foremost, all this has happened to me. I am addicted to video games. I have few social skills or interactions. I am violent, but not unreasonably... think of it as me, a male, getting in touch with my masculine side. I like to cage fight.

I most certianly do not adhere to any kind of social standards society expects me to between men and women, but i think that is ok. Women need to adhere to a mans world if they ever expect to truly be equals any way.

One thing i mainly disagree with is that this needs to be stopped. Tell ea to stop making video games or the government to stop being corrupt. Tell science to stop improving technology. Tell me when it happens and ill sign over all my valuables. Yea right.

The world is going to have to adapt to these things or it will suffer the consequences of not adapting to a quickly evolving world.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 25, 2012)

Article is bullshit, I've never been one to needlessly hurt anyone, I've watched porn but that doesn't make me think of women as toys or demoralize them. I've been on a 16 hour gaming binge before and went to work the next day like a good productive little drone. What it sounds like they're doing is trying to demonize an industry that's taking from their own profits. People aren't watching cable news as much these days and are spending more time watching Netflix, Hulu, playing games online with friends, and just being less plugged into the bullshit the media is trying to feed them. This idea that women don't game or watch porn is stupid too, I was honestly shocked when I showed up for D&D and there were three very attractive girls there with stable jobs and intelligent things to say. 

But I shouldn't have been. The media trains us to regard people as stereotypes and avoid things that might be of interest to us because of that while they pay their bills with the shit they ram down our throats.


----------



## ez (May 25, 2012)




----------



## Onomatopoeia (May 25, 2012)

> 'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation



Stopped reading here.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 25, 2012)

White Tiger said:


> Monopoly is cool.
> 
> Forget the rest.


I've witnessed more violence due to Monopoly than video games. That shit just turns friends and family against each other. It's like the Civil War of games.


----------



## kazuri (May 25, 2012)

Most problems with monopoly would be nonexistant if the rules were followed 100%. Most people don't even realize the squares are to be auctioned off if the person who lands on them doesn't want to buy them.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 25, 2012)

kazuri said:


> Most problems with monopoly would be nonexistant if the rules were followed 100%. Most people don't even realize the squares are to be auctioned off if the person who lands on them doesn't want to buy them.


People start loaning money, then some fat cat gets boardwalk and gets all rich and becomes the man. You're starving, you can't even afford gas for your thimble and then you land on Pennsylvania Avenue and there's another person with their hand out for some cash...


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (May 25, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> People start loaning money, then some fat cat gets boardwalk and gets all rich and becomes the man. You're starving, you can't even afford gas for your thimble and then you land on Pennsylvania Avenue and there's another person with their hand out for some cash...



And then you rip off some Quakers to make a board game.


----------



## neko-sennin (May 25, 2012)

Toroxus said:


> *The demise of science: How agenda-based research and intentional methodological flaws degrades the public credibility of an entire field.*



Dude, somebody should write an article about that! 

And do a study. 



sadated_peon said:


> What this is saying is that women don't like to have to compete against video games and porn.
> 
> If this means that women now have to take more initiative in building relationships, and it is no longer social accepted that it is up to the man, I am all for it.



Congratulations, ladies! You're no longer just The Prize! 

Sometimes, you get to be the hunter, now. 

I can see parallels to some of the same relationship issues the male tribe has been blundering through for thousands of years, and I find it strangely reassuring that people turn out to be only human, regardless of gender. I dare call that a kind of equality, in and of itself.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Article is bullshit, I've never been one to needlessly hurt anyone, I've watched porn but that doesn't make me think of women as toys or demoralize them. I've been on a 16 hour gaming binge before and went to work the next day like a good productive little drone. *What it sounds like they're doing is trying to demonize an industry that's taking from their own profits.* People aren't watching cable news as much these days and are spending more time watching Netflix, Hulu, playing games online with friends, and *just being less plugged into the bullshit the media is trying to feed them*. This idea that women don't game or watch porn is stupid too, I was honestly shocked when I showed up for D&D and there were three very attractive girls there with stable jobs and intelligent things to say.
> 
> But I shouldn't have been. The media trains us to regard people as stereotypes and avoid things that might be of interest to us because of that while they pay their bills with the shit they ram down our throats.



So much truth, one post can barely contain it. 



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I've witnessed more violence due to Monopoly than video games. That shit just turns friends and family against each other. It's like the Civil War of games.



Looking back on my childhood, I can't think of of a single game of Monopoly I played that ever ended well. 

Once somebody gets Boardwalk and Park Place, especially if they already control any of the railroads or utilities, everybody else just packs up and quits, if not rage-quits.

It's all right there in the name: Monopoly.

It's the game where you start off with dreams of prosperity, and end up getting nickled and dimed into poverty, often by someone you normally think of as a friend (for added awkwardness), until eventually, every time you pass GO, you start to see a glimpse of why your parents are so stressed and depressed, and it begins to feel way too much like everyday life to be any fun. 

If I didn't know any better, I'd swear the entire game was designed to impose Absolute Despair on generations of children, and teach friends to sell each other out for material gain, before they ever enter the adult world.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (May 25, 2012)

neko-sennin said:


> If I didn't know any better, I'd swear the entire game was designed to impose Absolute Despair on generations of children, and teach friends to sell each other out for material gain, before they ever enter the adult world.


Not to far off

Oh and also you are most likely to go to jail.


----------



## Bishop (May 25, 2012)




----------



## Psysalis (May 25, 2012)

That's great lol^



Zaru said:


> We're talking about current western countries here. The situation is reversed in a lot of places, but those aren't the places who indulge in porn and videogames, either
> 
> Tell me, is there any bullshit equivalent to ruining someone's life, taking away their freedom and future chances as well as their reputation, on top of stealing money from an unrelated 3rd faction, with a simple lie, and getting away with it EVEN IF THE TRUTH IS REVEALED?



Post blew my mind


----------



## trollface (May 25, 2012)

appreciate the cock ladies, its only going to get rarer.


----------



## ShadowReij (May 26, 2012)

I'm noticing how everything they point out all almost literally deals with excess. Well fuck yeah, too much of anything is always bad for you. Doesn't mean the habit itself is inheritly bad. 

Also I love how it's only men, as if women don't play games or watch porn either lol gtfo.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (May 26, 2012)

He's playing a porn game and having sex at the same time.


----------



## Palpatine (May 26, 2012)

Well, life does suck.

Some escapism is important...



neko-sennin said:


> If I didn't know any better, I'd swear the entire game was designed to impose Absolute Despair on generations of children, and teach friends to sell each other out for material gain, before they ever enter the adult world.


----------



## ShadowReij (May 26, 2012)

And it's not there is anything good on TV, those days are gone and "News Reporting" is no longer that, it's all about ratings fuck actual reporting.


----------



## The Weeknd (May 26, 2012)

And douchebags trying to have swag.

Class > Swag


----------



## Karsh (May 26, 2012)

oh man


----------



## Basilikos (May 26, 2012)

Karsh said:


> oh man


I lol'd IRL.


----------



## Descent of the Lion (May 26, 2012)

Ignoring the lumping of vgs with pornography, where is the logic in this? Does this mean that every sensation seeking activity has the same effect? What about movies, roller coasters, football games, tv shows? These are things that all men engage in. 

The very fact that they lump video games with porn suggest an agenda. 

By the logic the only activity that we should take part in is hunting and combat.

I'm finding it funny that no one criticizes the constant marketing we endure when its sole purpose is the make us feel as if we "need something," or our economic system which exploits civilian with financial dependence.

No. Attack escapism. People should love the doldrums  of  our society.


----------



## Karsh (May 26, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> I lol'd IRL.



Would have been just as funny had it been a woman


----------



## Black Superman (May 26, 2012)

Maybe they wouldn't have to turn to video games and porn if the american dream was fullfilling.


----------



## Karsh (May 26, 2012)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> Maybe they wouldn't have to turn to video games and porn if the american dream was fullfilling.



That's true, the american dream isn't all it's cracked up to be everywhere in the world


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (May 26, 2012)

ZeroTheDestroyer said:


> Maybe they wouldn't have to turn to video games and porn if the american dream was fullfilling.



The american dream... what is the american dream again?
I'm american and I don't even know.


----------



## Black Superman (May 26, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> The american dream... what is the american dream again?
> I'm american and I don't even know.



Good job, wife, kids, dog, white picket fence.


----------



## Bishop (May 26, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> The american dream... what is the american dream again?
> I'm american and I don't even know.



Money, bitches, kids that you can send away when you feel like it, good reputation, unlimited game card, Wendy's Bacon Deluxe double with no onion, large penis, and the ability to talk any cop out of giving you a ticket.


----------



## Karsh (May 26, 2012)

Bishop said:


> and the ability to talk any cop out of giving you a ticket.


----------



## Magicbullet (May 26, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> The american dream... what is the american dream again?
> I'm american and I don't even know.



Idealistic self-deception.





I think.


----------



## Dolohov27 (May 26, 2012)

Coteaz said:


> I love being ruined like this.
> 
> Ruin me more.


 Yep exactly. play some games, snort some coke, download 500 GB of porn and call it a day .

MOB: Money over bitches


----------



## The Prodigy (May 26, 2012)

playing CoD for 16 hours god damn 

Too much of anything isn't good for you. Water is essential for life, but too much and you'll flood your insides... being a vegiterian makes you go bald if you don't have any source of protein in your diet, smoking = stop smoking commercials, sex your dick gets sore when you get a boner. And the list goes on and on...

girls are just as fucked up as guys if you ask me. Live in NY and take the train on a daily basis and you see all kinds of crazy bitches


----------



## Basilikos (May 26, 2012)

Prodigy94 said:


> being a vegiterian makes you go bald if you don't have any source of protein in your diet


Um, you do know that nigh everything humans eat has protein in it, right?

Vegetarians, vegans, and omnivores alike are in no danger of low protein levels.


----------



## The Prodigy (May 26, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> Um, you do know that nigh everything humans eat has protein in it, right?
> 
> Vegetarians, vegans, and omnivores alike are in no danger of low protein levels.



Your right, good call on that. I should have said, 'low' instead of 'no'. After all it has been proven that vegan diets decrease testosterone levels in guys and increase estrogen (this considering all forms of meat are taken out of the diet even fish). It's not bad if you add protein shakes to your diet, though.


----------



## Basilikos (May 27, 2012)

Prodigy94 said:


> Your right, good call on that. I should have said, 'low' instead of 'no'. After all it has been proven that vegan diets decrease testosterone levels in guys and increase estrogen (this considering all forms of meat are taken out of the diet even fish). It's not bad if you add protein shakes to your diet, though.


The fuck?  Being vegetarian or vegan does not put you in any danger of low protein levels not does it put guys at risk of decreased testosterone levels/increased levels of estrogen. 

Lord knows where you're getting your information about nutrition from.


----------



## The Prodigy (May 27, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> The fuck?  Being vegetarian or vegan does not put you in any danger of low protein levels not does it put guys at risk of decreased testosterone levels/increased levels of estrogen.
> 
> Lord knows where you're getting your information about nutrition from.



It does though. Have 1 person lift weights for a year who is a vegan. And have another person lift for a year who isn't a vegan, who eats chicken, steak, ect.. and 9/10 the person with the higher protein diet will gain far more strength/muscle than the person on the vegan diet.


----------



## Bishop (May 27, 2012)

Prodigy94 said:


> It does though. Have 1 person lift weights for a year who is a vegan. And have another person lift for a year who isn't a vegan, who eats chicken, steak, ect.. and 9/10 the person with the higher protein diet will gain far more strength/muscle than the person on the vegan diet.



While this is true, it is irrelevant because of supplements. A vegan can have an extremely strong and healthy body. Lou Ferrigno (the hulk and #2 bodybuilder for a decade) was/is a vegan/vegetarian during his peak. I believe he is only a vegetarian currently.

It may take more, but vegans are at no disadvantage besides the fact that they can't enjoy bacon cheeseburgers with curly fries and a milkshake, or engage in oral sex.


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## Basilikos (May 27, 2012)

Prodigy94 said:


> It does though. Have 1 person lift weights for a year who is a vegan. And have another person lift for a year who isn't a vegan, who eats chicken, steak, ect.. and 9/10 the person with the higher protein diet will gain far more strength/muscle than the person on the vegan diet.


*sigh*

First off, science experiments aren't that simple. They have to do something called isolating the variable first otherwise it's anybody's wild guess as to what causes the observed phenomenon. Second, there are actually many scientific studies suggesting that people who heavily limit animal based foods in their diet (if not remove them altogether) are healthier than omnivores. Moreover, for the last time, vegetarians and vegans are at no disadvantage when it comes to getting protein compared to omnivores. Even a basic biology course will show you that plants and animals alike contain proteins. There's a reason you never hear of any protein deficient vegetarians or vegans. Shit, only people in countries that are starving because they hardly have *any food* are in danger of protein deficiency. I bet you're also one of those people that honestly believes humans are in danger of calcium deficiency without dairy products either. 

This stuff isn't news, buddy. It's been known for a long time now. 

Unfortunately, a lot of people get brainwashed and buy into the lies of money hungry corporations into thinking they NEED meat and dairy otherwise their health will suffer.


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## Zaru (May 27, 2012)

Bishop said:


> While this is true, it is irrelevant because of supplements. A vegan can have an extremely strong and healthy body. Lou Ferrigno (the hulk and #2 bodybuilder for a decade) was/is a vegan/vegetarian during his peak. I believe he is only a vegetarian currently.
> 
> It may take more, but vegans are at no disadvantage besides the fact that they can't enjoy bacon cheeseburgers with curly fries and a milkshake, or engage in oral sex.



Only #2 at his vegan best
#1 was an omnivore

Says everything really vv


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## Anjali (May 27, 2012)

Zaru said:


> It's basically saying: The only solaces many men find from the chore that is living in the disappointing society surrounding them, and the frustration that is dating (or lack thereof), are bad things and need to be stopped.



Really ? How can you possibly claim that the only solaces for men are videogames and porn ?


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## Zaru (May 27, 2012)

Anjali said:


> Really ? How can you possibly claim that the only solaces for men are videogames and porn ?



I said "many men", not "all men". There are a lot of males with little to no social life, with looks too lacking to be in the dating game, and no other outstanding qualities. People around them tell them they're worthless. What are they going to do to find entertainment and joy? These cheap and easily available solutions are an obvious choice.


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## Anjali (May 27, 2012)

Zaru said:


> I said "many men", not "all men". There are a lot of males with little to no social life, with looks too lacking to be in the dating game, and no other outstanding qualities. People around them tell them they're worthless. What are they going to do to find entertainment and joy? These cheap and easily available solutions are an obvious choice.



Or,you know, they could try to improve themselves as persons, find nice hobbies, learn new things, and so on.
Plus, you know very well that even ugly people can find someone to date. You make it sound like there's no alternative for ugly people except living a secluded life, spending their days wanking to porn.


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## Zaru (May 27, 2012)

Anjali said:


> Or,you know, they could try to improve themselves as persons, find nice hobbies, learn new things, and so on.
> Plus, you know very well that even ugly people can find someone to date. You make it sound like there's no alternative for ugly people except living a secluded life, spending their days wanking to porn.



What's a "nice" hobby? Getting shitfaced every weekend? There's a reason such males don't indulge in these "normal" activities in the first place. And not everyone has the willpower to do a complete personality overhaul for the sake of being deemed worthy by the very society that shunned them in the first place. 

You seem to have no idea how many such males exist, probably because you don't interact with them for the very reasons I described.


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## Buskuv (May 27, 2012)

What constitutes 'nice' hobbies as opposed to 'not nice' hobbies?


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## Bishop (May 27, 2012)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> What constitutes 'nice' hobbies as opposed to 'not nice' hobbies?



Opinions...


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## Dionysus (May 27, 2012)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> What constitutes 'nice' hobbies as opposed to 'not nice' hobbies?


Nice: ship building, learning languages

Not nice: serial killing, arson


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## Zaru (May 27, 2012)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> What constitutes 'nice' hobbies as opposed to 'not nice' hobbies?



There's a very easy answer for this regarding the female view of "nice" hobbies: 

If it benefits women or increases his status / subjective worth (which benefits the woman that is in a relationship with him), it's a "nice" hobby.
Otherwise it's not a nice hobby.

There, it's that simple.

The only reason video games are now a somewhat acceptable hobby past childhood is that almost everyone is playing them, anyway.


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## Buskuv (May 27, 2012)

Dionysus said:


> Nice: ship building, learning languages
> 
> Not nice: serial killing, arson



What about learning to build ships and absorbing a foreign language in order to commit arson and murder?  



Zaru said:


> There's a very easy answer for this regarding the female view of "nice" hobbies:
> 
> If it benefits women or increases his status / subjective worth (which benefits the woman that is in a relationship with him), it's a "nice" hobby.
> Otherwise it's not a nice hobby.
> ...



We've always got to have that next looming media devil on the horizon, or we're not conscious societies.  We feel pretty empty and naive, I suppose, without some sort of new form of entertainment to consider the epoch or our progeny's demise.  We're not vigilant and concerned for the future if there's not something that threatens our way of thinking--forget politics or the environment, war or disaster, corruption or fear: 

it is video games that gnaws at the support beams of Western civilization. 

We'll find another and then video games will be considered that 'wholesome past time' by which we measure the newest craze that threatens our way of life and our children's happiness and sanity.

When virtual porn is out, though, damn.  We're done.


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## Dionysus (May 27, 2012)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> What about learning to build ships and absorbing a foreign language in order to commit arson and murder?



That's mastermind territory. They get all the babes.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 27, 2012)

Zaru said:


> Only #2 at his vegan best
> #1 was an omnivore
> 
> Says everything really vv


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## The Weeknd (May 27, 2012)

One does not simply watch porn and play video games.


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## Bishop (May 27, 2012)




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## Anjali (May 27, 2012)

Zaru said:


> What's a "nice" hobby? Getting shitfaced every weekend? There's a reason such males don't indulge in these "normal" activities in the first place. And not everyone has the willpower to do a complete personality overhaul for the sake of being deemed worthy by the very society that shunned them in the first place.
> 
> You seem to have no idea how many such males exist, probably because you don't interact with them for the very reasons I described.





Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> What constitutes 'nice' hobbies as opposed to 'not nice' hobbies?




No, by nice hobbies I don't mean getting "shitfaced" every weekend.
Nice hobbies are reading, cooking, learning, hiking, doing sports, being creative... pretty much everything, except for wanking. You suggest that living a lonely life full of porn and masturbation is the only alternative left for ugly people. I say there are plenty of other ways to pass the time, instead of being sad and wanking. 

Videogames are fine with me, but saying that "porn" is the only thing a bad looking guy has is ridiculous. I've seen horrendous looking men with girlfriends, or picking up women in clubs. So there ARE alternatives for them, they should not be spending their lives sulking and fapping.


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## Zaru (May 27, 2012)

Anjali said:


> No, by nice hobbies I don't mean getting "shitfaced" every weekend.
> Nice hobbies are reading, cooking, learning, hiking, doing sports, being creative... pretty much everything, except for wanking. You suggest that living a lonely life full of porn and masturbation is the only alternative left for ugly people. I say there are plenty of other ways to pass the time, instead of being sad and wanking.
> 
> Videogames are fine with me, but saying that "porn" is the only thing a bad looking guy has is ridiculous. I've seen horrendous looking men with girlfriends, or picking up women in clubs. So there ARE alternatives for them, they should not be spending their lives sulking and fapping.


I didn't say it's the only thing they can do. I said it's the only thing they can find solace in. And that's obviously meant in general, since there's a 100% success rate and little effort involved. It's not the best option for them, objectively, but subjectively the one with the highest risk/reward factor.

"I've seen exceptions, so there's no excuse!" 
Come on, do you really think that way? These "ugly" men all either have a quality (money, great humor, unjustified confidence etc.), or have low standards, or simply got lucky (that's not something you can aim for)

You focus too much on the "bad looking" aspect, anyway. Looks aren't the only reason why males can be driven into such a situation.
Many are just fed up with female bullshit and leave the dating game. Women hate that, since it means they lose the only power they have over such males: Their vagina.

Also, q.e.d.


> If it benefits women or increases his status / subjective worth (which benefits the woman that is in a relationship with him), it's a "nice" hobby.





> Nice hobbies are reading, cooking, learning, hiking, doing sports, being creative.


Reading -> Accepted as a good and respectable hobby by society and you do it yourself, so you're okay with it
Cooking -> He can cook for you
Learning -> Improves his career outlook, improving his worth as a mate
Hiking and Sports -> Improves his physique, and thus his worth as a mate
Being creative -> You were purposely vague with that, but let me translate that for you: Creative in fields that you think society respects. You'd much rather accept if someone writes songs or does impressive art, than if someone makes creates complicated mods for games or makes alternative art out of Legos.


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## Anjali (May 27, 2012)

Oh god, OF COURSE hobbies tend to be respectable and good. There are also bad hobbies that don't benefit anyone, so WHY would someone do them ? What's the problem if the hobbies I listed are accepted by society ? Besides, there are many others I didn't list, so don't talk like it's a closed list. 



> Many are just fed up with female bullshit and leave the dating game. Women hate that, since it means they lose the only power they have over such males: Their vagina.


Lol okay, thank you for your highly accurate theories, based of course on detailed knowledge of the female psyche. 
"Oh no, now I cannot control men with my vagina anymore! Must think of a new, evil plan to dominate and manipulate them!"


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 27, 2012)

Anjali said:


> "Oh no, now I cannot control men with my vagina anymore! Must think of a new, evil plan to dominate and manipulate them!"



There are women like that...


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## Zaru (May 27, 2012)

Anjali said:


> Oh god, OF COURSE hobbies tend to be respectable and good. There are also bad hobbies that don't benefit anyone, so WHY would someone do them ? What's the problem if the hobbies I listed are accepted by society ? Besides, there are many others I didn't list, so don't talk like it's a closed list.


Bad? What makes it bad? Hobbies are a timewaster. If you enjoy it and it doesn't hurt anyone (including yourself), why is it "bad"? Who defines what is bad and what isn't? Historically grown bullshit rules of a society? Many "respected" hobbies are much more useless than unrespected ones. Smearing paint blotches on large canvas is a respected hobby, but its worth for society is zero.


Anjali said:


> Lol okay, thank you for your highly accurate theories, based of course on detailed knowledge of the female psyche.
> "Oh no, now I cannot control men with my vagina anymore! Must think of a new, evil plan to dominate and manipulate them!"





Unlosing Ranger said:


> There are women like that...


Exactly.

Now, I know you personally and you're not one of them, but there are SO many women who have nothing but their looks and the fact that they have the upper hand in the dating game going for them to get advantages in life. People with only one quality hate when someone is immune to it.


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## Shock Therapy (May 27, 2012)

Karsh said:


> oh man



blizzard, killing gamers since starcraft


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## Anjali (May 27, 2012)

Zaru said:


> Bad? What makes it bad? Hobbies are a timewaster. If you enjoy it and it doesn't hurt anyone (including yourself), why is it "bad"? Who defines what is bad and what isn't? Historically grown bullshit rules of a society? Many "respected" hobbies are much more useless than unrespected ones. Smearing paint blotches on large canvas is a respected hobby, but its worth for society is zero



Hobbies are NOT a timewaster. Some of them are productive, creative, beneficial for your health and general culture.

Good hobbies: anything that doesn't hurt you or others
Bad hobbies: anything that hurts yourself or others

I don't know why you're making such a fuss out of hobbies, when I was simply suggesting that instead of staying at home, fapping to porn, people should occupy their time with something else, like hobbies. And now you're all over me, overanalysing this and talking about things I haven't even mentioned.

All I'm saying is, porn is NOT the only solace for men, and there are better ways to pass your time than being lonely and wanking. That is ALL.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 27, 2012)

But porn can be beneficial and so can games...


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## Anjali (May 27, 2012)

Games, yes. And how exactly is porn beneficial ?


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (May 27, 2012)

Anjali said:


> I've seen horrendous looking men with girlfriends, or picking up women in clubs.



They are most likely loaded with money.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 27, 2012)

Anjali said:


> Games, yes. And how exactly is porn beneficial ?



What you didn't know porn is considered an artform?
Not to mention it can teach you


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## Zaru (May 27, 2012)

Anjali said:


> when I was simply suggesting that instead of staying at home, fapping to porn, people should occupy their time with something else, like hobbies.



Of course they should. Everyone should. We should all eat healthy, work out, do productive hobbies, be nice to each other and educate ourselves more than necessary... yet that's not how the world works. People break under pressure and expectations, they get disappointed with what life has to offer them, they sometimes simply give up trying, or they are too lazy.

And then there's porn and videogames, easily accessible, highly effective in producing dopamine, and even legal! I'm saying it's no surprise that so many people flock to these things to indulge in excess, given the alternatives. Not that they're the best things ever (which is subjective again).


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## Anjali (May 27, 2012)

the_notorious_Z.?. said:


> They are most likely loaded with money.


Actually no, the men I've seen were very normal looking and dressed. And one of them was a mere bodyguard of the club, certainly not loaded with money.



Unlosing Ranger said:


> What you didn't know porn is considered an artform?
> Not to mention it can teach you


Lol no. I've had experiences with men doing things the way they saw in porn and thus being horrible in bed.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 27, 2012)

Anjali said:


> Lol no. I've had experiences with men doing things the way they saw in porn and thus being horrible in bed.



It defers from person to person.


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## Bishop (May 27, 2012)

the_notorious_Z.?. said:


> They are most likely loaded with money.



Not true man. When I was active, my buds and I picked up many women, Gary was fat and ugly yet he got many chicks and residue sex. I hope you don't think money or fame gets you multiple women.


...just sayin


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## ez (May 27, 2012)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> What constitutes 'nice' hobbies as opposed to 'not nice' hobbies?



Not nice: video games, porn

Nice: Posting on NF


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## Anjali (May 27, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> It defers from person to person.



Trying hard to resist the urge to be a grammar nazi here.


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## Elim Rawne (May 27, 2012)

Bishop said:


> Not true man. When I was active, my buds and I picked up many women, Gary was fat and ugly yet he got many chicks and residue sex. I hope you don't think money or fame gets you multiple women.
> 
> 
> ...just sayin



Yeah, you just gotta know how to talk people. Having looks and money does help though


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## Buskuv (May 27, 2012)

ezxx said:


> Not nice: video games, porn
> 
> Nice: Posting on NF


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 27, 2012)

Anjali said:


> Trying hard to resist the urge to be a grammar nazi here.



Go ahead do it


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## Cromer (May 27, 2012)

That article seems to be confusing cause and effect.


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## The Prodigy (May 27, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> *sigh*
> 
> First off, science experiments aren't that simple. They have to do something called isolating the variable first otherwise it's anybody's wild guess as to what causes the observed phenomenon. Second, there are actually many scientific studies suggesting that people who heavily limit animal based foods in their diet (if not remove them altogether) are healthier than omnivores. Moreover, for the last time, vegetarians and vegans are at no disadvantage when it comes to getting protein compared to omnivores. Even a basic biology course will show you that plants and animals alike contain proteins. There's a reason you never hear of any protein deficient vegetarians or vegans. Shit, only people in countries that are starving because they hardly have *any food* are in danger of protein deficiency. I bet you're also one of those people that honestly believes humans are in danger of calcium deficiency without dairy products either.
> 
> ...



 athy

No I never claimed a vegan diet is unhealthy. I simply claimed vegan diets do lower testoserone to an extent. Not completely to the point where its unhealthy, but to the point where you can tell person A would be better off if they were to eat meats and lifting weights or trying to get bigger and stronger in general would come easier than person B on the vegan diet. This is not to say that supplements or protein shakes can't be taken to make up for the lack of protein. Or are you actually trying to tell me that lettuce, tomatoes, cucmbers, nuts, ect.. have anything compareable to chicken, beef, steak, ect.. as far as protein is concerned?

Again taking protein shakes out of the variable person B. Would leave said person with lower testoserone levels than person A. Now if person A and B were both to take supplements and protein shakes, you can bet person A would be much better off and would have the greater protein amounts, and calorie amounts to be able to push through a plateau that person B would have greater trouble getting through.


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## Sasuke Uchiha (May 27, 2012)

This isn't always true. It's kinda of odd to say it's ruining a generation.


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## pikachuwei (May 28, 2012)

Anjali said:


> Hobbies are NOT a timewaster. Some of them are productive, creative, beneficial for your health and general culture.
> 
> Good hobbies: anything that doesn't hurt you or others
> Bad hobbies: anything that hurts yourself or others
> ...



Watching porn and fapping can be hobbies

in the same way watching anime and jogging can be hobbies 

(watching different forms of media, exercising different parts of the body)


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## On and On (May 28, 2012)

Nightblade said:


> basically, get the fuck out of your basement.



Pretty much fucking this 

I remember researching video games for a paper once under the perspective that they don't influence behavior. Basically it comes down to this - it doesn't MAKE you violent or anything, but it desensitizes you to the significance of violence - which can make you more likely to use violence. 

And honestly the idea that technology shapes your future choices isn't too far removed. Look at Japan - where record youth are reporting an uninterest in sex at all and are pursuing DIGITAL - FAKE - ELECTRONIC - IMAGINARY girlfriends.

Just saying. Don't underestimate the effect that our toys and media has on our intimate choices


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