# Necrons vs. Marvel Earth



## EvilMoogle (Sep 27, 2007)

This is more of a speculative thread than anything else.  But here's the question:

How large of a Necron force would it take to overtake Marvel Earth (616 Earth)?

Assume post-Civil War, pre-World-War-Hulk, and ignore any Skrull factors.  Marvel Earth is in character and unaware that the invasion is going to take place until it starts.

For the sake of this thread overtaking Earth will consist of disabling SHIELD, and the defeat of all major superhero groups (Avengers, et all).

Could the Necron do it, and  if so what is the smallest force needed?  If they can't, where do they get stopped?


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## Taleran (Sep 27, 2007)

I'm assuming part of that is landing on the planet?


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 27, 2007)

Taleran said:


> I'm assuming part of that is landing on the planet?



Yeah, though if it's a big force landing at least the major Marvel groups will know about it.


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## Wesley (Sep 27, 2007)

Marvel wins.  There's nothing in the Necron Codex that would let them win.


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## Rice Ball (Sep 27, 2007)

I Imagine they would likely need a sizeable normal force.
At least 5 Monoliths, Wraths would be good counter against the heros, as would Zealots. Normal Necro troops and immortals would be overkill against the 616 standard armys.

Then again a single c'tan would likely do it. GO Nightbringer!


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## Wesley (Sep 27, 2007)

Rice Ball said:


> I Imagine they would likely need a sizeable normal force.
> At least 5 Monoliths, Wraths would be good counter against the heros, as would Zealots. Normal Necro troops and immortals would be overkill against the 616 standard armys.
> 
> Then again a single c'tan would likely do it. GO Nightbringer!



Hulk destroys all the armies.  C'Tan are...hard to quantify.


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## Power16 (Sep 27, 2007)

I see that you have the earth consist of Heroes and the likes so that means no Molecule Man(awww man, he's the fall back guy when Marvel Earth is a battle).


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 27, 2007)

Rice Ball said:


> I Imagine they would likely need a sizeable normal force.
> At least 5 Monoliths, Wraths would be good counter against the heros, as would Zealots. Normal Necro troops and immortals would be overkill against the 616 standard armys.
> 
> Then again a single c'tan would likely do it. GO Nightbringer!



I'm assuming the standard super-powered invasion scenario.  The conventional armies can be there, but they shouldn't be effective at all (from what I know most WH40K individual units would pretty much solo the conventional forces on Earth).

How many ground troops come with a Monolith?



Power16 said:


> I see that you have the earth consist of Heroes and the likes so that means no Molecule Man(awww man, he's the fall back guy when Marvel Earth is a battle).



Non-heroes that are useful (say, Doom) would get involved (albeit in character which means they might wait until half the world's destroyed).

As to Molecule Man, is he even alive at the moment?  He's sure being quiet if he is.


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## Rice Ball (Sep 27, 2007)

One thing to keep in mind, Gauss weapons violently rips matter off a target, instead of firing something at it. So even durable hero's like Hulk will have trouble because gauss weaponary dematerialize it molecule by molecule, atom by atom until nothing remains.

This is why in game stats, necro weapons are always able to damage the thickest armor with a roll of a 6.

Also the basic necron is as tough and strong as a space marine and can self repair. They also have the same improved targeting as space marines, well beyond a standard human.

A Standard Monolith acts as a portal for necron forces to move from one planet to the next, so the necrons can pull unlimited numbers in theory, but the basic task force would be roughly 45 basic warriors 15 immortals.


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## Fang (Sep 27, 2007)

Are the C'Tan allowed?


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 27, 2007)

Rice Ball said:


> One thing to keep in mind, Gauss weapons violently rips matter off a target, instead of firing something at it. So even durable hero's like Hulk will have trouble because gauss weaponary dematerialize it molecule by molecule, atom by atom until nothing remains.
> 
> This is why in game stats, necro weapons are always able to damage the thickest armor with a roll of a 6.



Yeah, I was randomly reading Wikipedia and stumbled across the Necrons.  When I read about the Gauss Flayers I was thinking "in theory that could destroy adamantium."

Thus this thread.

Hulk (who isn't on Earth in the period I specified) could survive with his healing factor (maybe).  But Colossus and Thing would be in a world of hurt from such a weapon.



The White Fang said:


> Are the C'Tan allowed?



I'll go ahead and say yes; but remember the goal of the thread is to find the weakest offense that could successfully win.


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## Wesley (Sep 27, 2007)

Guass wouldn't work on the Hulk.  He'd just heal instantly.


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## Rice Ball (Sep 27, 2007)

Wesley said:


> Guass wouldn't work on the Hulk.  He'd just heal instantly.



From what i've seen it does take time for the Hulk to regen, be it a few sections.
You have to remember these weapons are effective against Space Marine power armour and terminator armor.

The main issue i see for the Hulk is if enough Warriors(like 3 or 4) focus fire on him they might completely destroy him before his healing factor regenerates him. He would have alot of hero's helping him so it shouldn't be a problem unless a few destroyers target him with gauss Cannons(automatic fire version) which would reduce him to nothing pretty fast.


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## Wesley (Sep 27, 2007)

Rice Ball said:


> From what i've seen it does take time for the Hulk to regen, be it a few sections.
> You have to remember these weapons are effective against Space Marine power armour and terminator armor.
> 
> The main issue i see for the Hulk is if enough Warriors(like 3 or 4) focus fire on him they might completely destroy him before his healing factor regenerates him. He would have alot of hero's helping him so it shouldn't be a problem unless a few destroyers target him with gauss Cannons(automatic fire version) which would reduce him to nothing pretty fast.



Sorry to say, but you're underestimating the Hulk.  At best, Gauss Rifles would give him sunburn.


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## Guy Gardner (Sep 27, 2007)

Wesley said:


> Marvel wins.  There's nothing in the Necron Codex that would let them win.



Codexes are made up with balance in mind, not accuracy to fluff. Otherwise Space Marines would be absolutely unstoppable: They can stop planetary rebellions with _*100 guys*_. You can't simulate that on the board, where dozens of them can die off in a single skirmish battle.

C'tan would fucking murder Hulk without trying. They _eat suns_.


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## Fang (Sep 27, 2007)

The Void Dragon could solo this amiright?


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## Wesley (Sep 27, 2007)

The White Fang said:


> The Void Dragon > Hulk in an epic thrashing.



Yeah, but that's a C'tan.


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## Fang (Sep 27, 2007)

Yeah. That's why, their masters of the material universe in WH40k.


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## Rice Ball (Sep 27, 2007)

Wesley said:


> Sorry to say, but you're underestimating the Hulk.  At best, Gauss Rifles would give him sunburn.



I don't like repeating myself so this is the last time.
I have explained what Gauss weapons do, it doesn't matter how Durable he is. These weapons put large holes in Space Marine power armor, which is likely at least as tough as Iron Mans armor.


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## Darklyre (Sep 27, 2007)

Rice Ball said:


> I don't like repeating myself so this is the last time.
> I have explained what Gauss weapons do, it doesn't matter how Durable he is. These weapons put large holes in Space Marine power armor, which is likely at least as tough as Iron Mans armor.



Hulk has, bar none, the BEST regeneration in 616 MU. It only gets better with increasing anger. The more Necrons try to kill him, the quicker his regeneration in all areas. About the only Necron weapon (besides C'tan) that has a chance of taking him down for any significant amount of time is a Necron Monolith's main gauss beam.

Remember, Hulk powers chainswords with his anger.


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## Wesley (Sep 27, 2007)

Rice Ball said:


> I don't like repeating myself so this is the last time.
> I have explained what Gauss weapons do, it doesn't matter how Durable he is. These weapons put large holes in Space Marine power armor, which is likely at least as tough as Iron Mans armor.



I think Ironman is just a bit more durable than Space Marines...

Guass rifles might strip away molecules, but they have a given rate of doing so and some molecules are harder to strip away than others.

Hulk Smash Puny Metal men!


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## Wesker (Sep 27, 2007)

Is Jean Grey with the phoenix in this battle?


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 27, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Is Jean Grey with the phoenix in this battle?



No, Jean Grey was dead from the end of Civil War to the beginning of WWH.

(For that matter, the Hulk discussion is largely moot as Hulk isn't on Earth in this time period either).


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## Wesley (Sep 27, 2007)

Oh, well, any number of super beings on Earth would be able to stop easily.


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## Fang (Sep 27, 2007)

C'Tan would fuck up the Phoneix.


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## Darklyre (Sep 27, 2007)

The White Fang said:


> C'Tan would fuck up the Phoneix.



I'm not so sure about that. While the C'Tan can eat suns, doesn't the Phoenix have comparable or greater feats?


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## Fang (Sep 27, 2007)

I don't think she ranks above any of the normal Celestials.


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 27, 2007)

Darklyre said:


> I'm not so sure about that. While the C'Tan can eat suns, doesn't the Phoenix have comparable or greater feats?



Phoenix has eaten suns before too (the reason that the Shi'ar are so scared/mad at the Phoenix).

And if the C'Tan can eat suns they obviously win the fight.

So the next question is if there are any weaker forces that could win?


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## Wesker (Sep 27, 2007)

Didn't Dark Phoenix beat Galactus?


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## Fang (Sep 27, 2007)

Wasn't Galactus badily starving when that happened?


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## Darklyre (Sep 27, 2007)

Enough Pariah units and the Necron might be able to do this. Pariahs are soulless and have an insane fear aura around them. They're essentially untouchable by telepaths, and anyone trying to attack first has to target them. In the Ciaphas Cain books, veteran IG (think they may have been Kasrkin or Stormtroopers) thought that they could take them, but once they got close all the IG started shooting everywhere BUT the Pariahs, and they were all screaming in fear.


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## Fang (Sep 27, 2007)

Kasrkin, Dark.


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## Sylar (Sep 28, 2007)

Squirrel Girl.

Someone had to say it.


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## Darklyre (Sep 28, 2007)

Thought that was a given.


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## Azure Flame Fright (Sep 28, 2007)

I am so increadibly surprised that Franklin Richards was yet to be mentioned


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 28, 2007)

AJpinecrest2 said:


> I am so increadibly surprised that Franklin Richards was yet to be mentioned



Current Franklin Richards apparently has no powers (or at least he suddenly stopped using them).


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## Fang (Sep 28, 2007)

Could Franklin Richards do anything to the C'tan? Their more or less equal to the Chaos Gods and Tzneetch is to my knowledge a reality warper as well.


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 28, 2007)

The White Fang said:


> Could Franklin Richards do anything to the C'tan? Their more or less equal to the Chaos Gods and Tzneetch is to my knowledge a reality warper as well.



Full powered Franklin apparently can do just about whatever he wants.  Affecting reality on a universal level.

I have no idea where that would put him in the WH40K hierarchy, but I'm guessing somewhere very high up.

But he's only shown that power once.  He's done very limited reality warping items on far smaller scales before then, but the current Franklin is powerless (either in actuality or due to some other force or choice).


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## Azure Flame Fright (Sep 28, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> Full powered Franklin apparently can do just about whatever he wants.  Affecting reality on a universal level.
> 
> I have no idea where that would put him in the WH40K hierarchy, but I'm guessing somewhere very high up.
> 
> But he's only shown that power once.  He's done very limited reality warping items on far smaller scales before then, but the current Franklin is powerless (either in actuality or due to some other force or choice).



Not powerless read 198 files he is identified as still having powers


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## Fang (Sep 28, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> Full powered Franklin apparently can do just about whatever he wants.  Affecting reality on a universal level.
> 
> I have no idea where that would put him in the WH40K hierarchy, but I'm guessing somewhere very high up.
> 
> But he's only shown that power once.  He's done very limited reality warping items on far smaller scales before then, but the current Franklin is powerless (either in actuality or due to some other force or choice).



Again one of the Four Chaos Gods is a reality warper and even together they are equal to the C'Tan Star Gods. So what difference does this make with Franklin Richards?


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 28, 2007)

AJpinecrest2 said:


> Not powerless read 198 files he is identified as still having powers



Not powerless due to House of M.  He was involved in something in F4 that I don't recall (I don't follow F4 closely), since it happened he hasn't displayed any powers.  So it's not clear if he has them and just decided not to use them, or if something's interfering with them, or if he's lost them altogether.




The White Fang said:


> Again one of the Four Chaos Gods is a reality warper and even together they are equal to the C'Tan Star Gods. So what difference does this make with Franklin Richards?



Franklin Richards recreated Galactus after he was destroyed.

Someone who follows the cosmic events more closely can likely explain it better than I can, but that's a far more impressive feat than it sounds like at face value (it's held to be more impressive of a feat than Mad Jim Jaspers did, and he used an entire universe as his personal playground).


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## Azure Flame Fright (Sep 28, 2007)

It is a generally accepted fact that re-creating an object is easier than destroying one so in the fact that he brought back galactus he brought back a fundamental force to the universe wat he did insists that he is capable to destroying death itself as they are both abstracts on the same level so I forget which force has to do with life in marvel but in his bringing back galactus franklin showed he is capable of controlling and bending to his will everything in all existence more or less


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## Darklyre (Sep 28, 2007)

Actually, creation is harder than destruction. Principle of entropy, really.


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## Cy (Sep 29, 2007)

Hmmm.... Regeneration in the Marvel universe is screwed up. If it used actual science, or as close to it as possible, half of the regeration feats would be impossible. When the guass weapons tear apart the Hulk, he loses parts of him at an amazing rate (Guass weapons flay a human in seconds), but even if his regeration is greater, where does the material come from? The guass weapons are tearing the old material away, and you can't make something from nothing, so eventually the Hulk would start losing muscle tissue or something and eventually lose enough that he could lose. But that was if Marvel regeneration actually used the law of "You can't get something from nothing". Seeing as Wolverine can regenerate from a bunch of bones... (not that that would work against Necrons. They could destroy any material.)

But anyways, I say the Necrons take this. Necrons are pretty much the uber anti-psychic people of the 40K universe, and they have a couple of things that help against them. For example: they can create a barrier with monaliths that makes Necrons rebuild faster and from deadlier blows, plus it makes it harder fro enemies to target, and it creates a psychic null zone, meaning it doesn't matter if you can blow up universes or sneak into strip clubs with your mind- those powers don't work. Plus they also have some sort of pylon that fire weapons that are so powerful that they auto-kill anything less then a Super heavy, a titan, or a nid gargantuan creature. (Or any nids in synapse range if your a rules lawyer...). Necron lords weild weapons that can cut through anything, and I mean anything, as if it were air. C'Tan are made out of the same material as those weapons, and they devour souls when they kill, not to mention their ability to change shape, they can manipulate matter, go through matter, withstand weapons that can roast cities, etc. And any necrons that do die, return to their tomb worlds where they can be teleported out again within a couple of minutes. I'm not quite sure how many necrons it would require to conquer the world (it only takes a small force to annialate an entire force of guard...), but considering that you can constantly recycle them....


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## Wesley (Sep 29, 2007)

The Hulk's regen isn't something from nothing.  His "rage" generates energy for him to regenerate his body and do all the crazy things that are disproportionate with the size of his body.  Like the guy probably doesn't mass more than say, an elephant, at his physical largest, but he can destroy planet sized objects with a single punch.


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## Wesker (Sep 29, 2007)

Wait what have these weapons done that makes them capable of destroying adamantium?


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 29, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Wait what have these weapons done that makes them capable of destroying adamantium?



They work (as I understand it) at a molecular level.  Adamantium's been destroyed by attacks like this in the past (Magneto ripped out Wolverine's adamantium this way).


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## Wesker (Sep 30, 2007)

That was magnetism. But molecule man did destroy vibranium which i think is around admantium strength. So depends on how effective these weapons are at the molecular level. So yeah they might be able to.


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## Coaxmetal (Sep 30, 2007)

Squirrel Girl




nuff said.


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## Wesker (Sep 30, 2007)

^This thread is over.


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## Darklyre (Sep 30, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> That was magnetism. But molecule man did destroy vibranium which i think is around admantium strength. So depends on how effective these weapons are at the molecular level. So yeah they might be able to.



Vibranium is weaker than adamantium, but is roughly similar in durability, due to the vibration absorption. Necron Gauss Flayers work by stripping the molecules off of the target, layer by layer. They don't simply blast through with kinetic energy or heat.


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## Wesker (Sep 30, 2007)

Ah ok so those gauss weapons probably can damage adamantium. Hmm how powerful is thor at this time also are silver surfer or doctor strange on the planet?


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 30, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Ah ok so those gauss weapons probably can damage adamantium. Hmm how powerful is thor at this time also are silver surfer or doctor strange on the planet?



Thor is dead during this time period.  Silver Surfer is off dealing with Annihilation, so he shouldn't be involved.  Dr. Strange is on the planet.


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## Wesker (Sep 30, 2007)

What killed Thor? Also I am thinking that if Strange can manage to summon Eternity then he can beat the necrons. Even if he doesn't he can still give them hell.


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 30, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> What killed Thor? Also I am thinking that if Strange can manage to summon Eternity then he can beat the necrons. Even if he doesn't he can still give them hell.



He was "sleeping" after Ragnarok, as I understand it.

Strange probably could fight them off, but that isn't really how he behaves in similar events in the past (Kree/Skrull War, Onslaught Saga, etc).


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## Darklyre (Sep 30, 2007)

Dr. Strange's cloak won't work under these conditions!


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## Cy (Oct 2, 2007)

So Hulk's rage changes energy to matter to regerate himself? Ok....

Either way, he's not there (and if he was, a C'Tan could take him, though thats not saying much considering they are pretty much reality warpers and eat souls.... they could kill just about anything).

But yeah, if Dr.Strange is in character, then he wouldn't really interfere. 

One question: Since in 40K magic==psychic powers, then would the Necron's anti-psyker tech work against psychics/telepaths/magic users?


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## Darklyre (Oct 2, 2007)

Necrons are essentially invulnerable to telepathy anyway, as they're no better than robots (undead robots, really). Telekinesis would work. Magic likely wouldn't work unless it was an external effect (tossing a boulder at them). The hard part is the Pariah, which lacks a soul, yet has a sentient mind. In WH40K telepaths can't even stand to be near them, much less fight them. Pariah units automatically induce fear in any sentient being that looks at them, even Chaos units.


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## Azure Flame Fright (Oct 2, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> He was "sleeping" after Ragnarok, as I understand it.
> 
> Strange probably could fight them off, but that isn't really how he behaves in similar events in the past (Kree/Skrull War, Onslaught Saga, etc).



Thor did come back almost right after civil war here i know it aint the most reliable source but i didnt spend much time looking


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## Azure Flame Fright (Oct 2, 2007)

AJpinecrest2 said:


> Thor did come back almost right after civil war here i know it aint the most reliable source but i didnt spend much time looking



Also if vulcan was on earth he would rape C'tan's ass


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