# Do you think Madara still could beat the 5 Kage's witohut the Edo/Rinnegan boost?



## Plague (Apr 14, 2013)

Basically what the thread title say. 

If Madara were in the flesh, *and in his prime* (as in not old), would he have still beaten the 5 Kage's? (and without the Rinnegan)

The Rinnegan and being an Edo gave him increased umm, stuff. lol


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## Trojan (Apr 14, 2013)

I don't see what he can do against the jinton without the Rinngan.


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## Rai (Apr 14, 2013)

Perfect Susanoo GG


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## PureWIN (Apr 14, 2013)

No way. Jinton = GG. Hell, Naruto (clone) + Oonki's alone could've mopped the floor with him.

Perfect Susano'o is amazing, but obviously once you wear Madara down he won't be able to regenerate it and it'll simply disappear from the battlefield. Edo Madara was only able to spam Susano'o because he didn't have to worry about his stamina.

Prime Madara wouldn't have had the ability to just camp in Susano'o like Edo Madara was shown doing. Why did the 5 Kage lose? Because they couldn't deal with Susano'o camping + Preta Path + ET immortality. Too many layers of defense.


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## Klue (Apr 14, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> I don't see what he can do against the jinton without the Rinngan.



He already defeated two Jinton users without the Rinnegan. He didn't even use Perfect Susanoo.



PureWIN said:


> No way. Jinton = GG. Hell, Naruto (clone) + Oonki's alone could've mopped the floor with him.
> 
> Perfect Susano'o is amazing, but obviously once you wear Madara down he won't be able to regenerate it and it'll simply disappear from the battlefield. Edo Madara was only able to spam Susano'o because he didn't have to worry about his stamina.
> 
> Prime Madara wouldn't have had the ability to just camp in Susano'o like Edo Madara was shown doing. Why did the 5 Kage lose? Because they couldn't deal with Susano'o camping + Preta Path + ET immortality. Too many layers of defense.



I swear. You guys have the worst memory or frequently skip chapters. 


*Spoiler*: _Ch. 562, 575 & 589_ 




*Prior to VOTE, Madara faces off against both Muu and Onoki, two Jinton users:*

*Spoiler*: _Ch.562_ 








*Without a scratch, Madara triumphs over a beaten Onoki:*

*Spoiler*: _Ch.575_ 











*Onoki and Muu shown beaten; Onoki wonders why Madara did not use Perfect Susanoo during that battle:*

*Spoiler*: _Ch.589_


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## PureWIN (Apr 14, 2013)

Klue said:


> He already defeated two Jinton users without the Rinnegan. He didn't even use Perfect Susanoo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's not Jinton itself that is dangerous, it's old Oonki's uses of it.... especially when powered by Tsunade. The guy took out 25 Madara clones (with Susano'o activated) simultaneously using it.


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## Klue (Apr 15, 2013)

PureWIN said:


> It's not Jinton itself that is dangerous, it's old Oonki's uses of it.... especially when powered by Tsunade. The guy took out 25 Madara clones (with Susano'o activated) simultaneously using it.



While the real Madara stood there watching the entire time. And the moment he uses the Perfect Susanoo, Onoki releases his hold over the giant Jinton.

Your point?


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## PureWIN (Apr 15, 2013)

Klue said:


> While the real Madara stood there watching the entire time. And the moment he uses the Perfect Susanoo, Onoki releases his hold over the giant Jinton.
> 
> Your point?



The point is, a battle against Prime Madara (PM) would be significantly different then one against Edo Madara (EM). Obviously PM wouldn't have clones running around and a certain smugness regarding his mortality. 

Get past PM's Susano'o = GG. A super Jinton + FRS should easily be able to accomplish that. As I mentioned in my previous post, I also question how long PM could sustain Susano'o, especially PS.


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## Klue (Apr 15, 2013)

PureWIN said:


> The point is, a battle against Prime Madara (PM) would be significantly different then one against Edo Madara (EM). Obviously PM wouldn't have clones running around and a certain smugness regarding his mortality.
> 
> Get past PM's Susano'o = GG. A super Jinton + FRS should easily be able to accomplish that. As I mentioned in my previous post, I also question how long PM could sustain Susano'o, especially PS.



Madara fought Hashirama *or* Hashirama and a number of Senju for 24 hours. Not sure how long he used Susanoo, but it still speaks highly of his stamina.

Don't think that would be a problem.

Furthermore, you still fail to mention that Madara was holding back during a large portion of his battle with the Gokage.


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## AoshiKun (Apr 15, 2013)

Jinton is overrated. Have you forgotten Madara defeated those two users without even showing his fullpower?

The answer for OP is yes however he couldn't be so reckless as he was.


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## PureWIN (Apr 15, 2013)

Klue said:


> Furthermore, you still fail to mention that Madara was holding back during a large portion of his battle with the Gokage.



Of course he was holding back. Susano'o camping > Preta Path > Wood Clone > ET immortality. His multiple levels of defense was so great that all he needed to do was just bring them to the point of chakra exhaustion.

EM could do that, but I doubt PM could also. Let's stop focusing on Oonki. Do you really believe he wouldn't have a problem against Oonki + Ei + Mei + Gaara + Tsunade?

Remember, no meteor drops, no Mokuton rape, no Preta Path, no insane stamina, no ET regen. All he has is PS.

We saw VotE with our own eyes. PM is extremely dangerous, but aside from spamming his PS to swipe that mountain busting sword, what else does he have?


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## titantron91 (Apr 15, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> I don't see what he can do against the jinton without the Rinngan.



So why can't Onoki and Muu combined beat EMS Madara?  Read the previous chapters please.

If you have free will, Rinnegan and ET benefits, you virtually have every privilege to slack around and let others beat your body up coz you know you gonna get past through it anyway. This is why Madara ain't even panicking. And remember, Madara has a habit of prolonging battles, wanting to see every ounce of ability and skill his opponent has... that's why he doesn't care if it looks like he's getting outclassed coz he doesn't care at all.


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## Klue (Apr 15, 2013)

PureWIN said:


> Of course he was holding back. Susano'o camping > Preta Path > Wood Clone > ET immortality. His multiple levels of defense was so great that all he needed to do was just bring them to the point of chakra exhaustion.
> 
> EM could do that, but I doubt PM could do that. Let's stop focusing on Oonki. Do you really believe he wouldn't have a problem against Oonki + Ei + Mei + Gaara + Tsunade?
> 
> ...



What else does he have? Enough ability to defeat two Kage level opponents without using his trump card. He definitely wields one or two unknown Mangekyou Techniques.

But basically, I don't know - we're lacking details. However, we have enough information to conclude that both Hashirama and Madara are so strong, that they don't necessarily need to utilize full power to take out the Gokage.

While playing around with them, he told the Gokage that their battle is nothing compared to his clashes with Hashirama.

*Nothing*

At best, the Gokage can use their final combo to force a Perfect Susanoo counter. Regardless, EMS Madara wins.


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## raizen28 (Apr 15, 2013)

Hell no...............................


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Apr 15, 2013)

I don't think so. It wouldn't be easy in any way though, but eventually they would beat him after a long fight. The benefits of being an Edo is counting with an immortal body and limitless chakra. He neither wouldn't have Mokuton to fool them with clones or outnumber them. Take Edo Tensei pros, Rin'negan and Hashirama's Kekkei Genkai away and he really will look "grounded" compared to his current haxxed zombie self.

And yes, Preta Path saved him many times from eating a Jinton during the Gogake fight. I think he would be forced to draw out his full Susano'o right away in that scenario to win asap or merge it with Kurama if he has it. Taking on 5 Kages is still taking on 5 freaking Kages, more if you are an actual living and breathing human being made of blood cells that will run out of chakra like any other ninja.


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## Trojan (Apr 15, 2013)

Klue said:


> He already defeated two Jinton users without the Rinnegan. He didn't even use Perfect Susanoo.



I remember that, but I really don't think they had Jinton at that time. @.@
because the destroyed place in that panel doesn't seem like the effect of Jinton. 
Otherwise, we already saw that jinton >>>>>>>>> Susanoo. 

That's what I think, I don't have a proof, so don't ask for it, it's only my thought.


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## Stormcloak (Apr 15, 2013)

He can if he uses perfect susano from the start


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## Saphira (Apr 15, 2013)

Klue won this thread   some people just like to twist and misinterpret manga panels for the sake of an argument...

Also, for those who say Madara would lose because he doesn't have as much stamina as his edo form...remember that he fought for 24 hrs straight against  Hashirama? How many of the kages displayed this ability? ( not talking about Hashi himself of course)


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## Kyuubi Naruto (Apr 15, 2013)

All it would take is 1 Kage and a Genin to beat Madara. Naruto and Gaara's all that's needed here.

Although I'm not sure exactly what the 5 Kages were going to do themselves to be honest. Hopefully they'd be able to get the job done.


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## PikaCheeka (Apr 15, 2013)

So many people pretending Madara genuinely was concerned for his well-being as an edo despite commiting suicide multiple times for fun. 

Non-Edo Madara would be more cautious, and he still had stamina to fight Hashirama for 24 hours. He could also use PS and control the kyuubi simultaneously.

Gokage would have been screwed by VotE Madara.


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## PureWIN (Apr 15, 2013)

saphira said:


> Also, for those who say Madara would lose because he doesn't have as much stamina as his edo form...remember that he fought for 24 hrs straight against  Hashirama? How many of the kages displayed this ability? ( not talking about Hashi himself of course)



3rd Raikage fought for 72 hours straight. 

I'm pretty sure Madara's 24 hour battle involved low-level swordplay and not 24 hours of Susano'o megazord.

Listen guys. I'm not downplaying Madara's abilities. But I think you guys are accepting Madara/Hashirama's hype a little too much. Yes, they're both amazing god-tier level ninjas. But we shouldn't underestimate the other Kages.

If it was PM vs. 5 Kages, PS probably would've been immediately used just to survive. From there it's just a matter of figuring out its weaknesses and exploiting them (much like how that has been done to the lower stages of Susano'o).


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## Shattering (Apr 15, 2013)

Some of you forget that Madara was having fun with the kages, you read that fight and could think *"well if we remove rinnegan and edo tensei the guy could have lost" *but if we remove such things from him he wouldn't be playing.

Think about yourself playing a video game having an "I win" button ready if something goes wrong, meanwhile you decide to act stupidly to have fun, congratulations you are Madara! 

And btw unless you prove *jinton > bijuu *dama they can't do a shit against stage 4 or perfect susano'o since stage 4 tanked one without problems.


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## Seon (Apr 15, 2013)

I think perfect susano'o was proof he was wayyy too much for them


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## Zemmix (Apr 15, 2013)

Yep, absolutely.


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## AlphaReaver (Apr 15, 2013)

Dat CLONE + Garaa + Ohnoki > Madara


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## Querix (Apr 15, 2013)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> All it would take is 1 Kage and a Genin to beat Madara. Naruto and Gaara's all that's needed here.



..........​


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## Crane (Apr 15, 2013)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> All it would take is 1 Kage and a Genin to beat Madara. Naruto and Gaara's all that's needed here.
> 
> Although I'm not sure exactly what the 5 Kages were going to do themselves to be honest. Hopefully they'd be able to get the job done.



this logic here is just ... saaaaaad


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## Saphira (Apr 15, 2013)

PureWIN said:


> 3rd Raikage fought for 72 hours straight.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Madara's 24 hour battle involved low-level swordplay and not 24 hours of Susano'o megazord.



I'm pretty sure the 3rd raikage's jutsu isn't as chakra draining as susano'o. And while I'm sure Madara didn't use PS during that whole fight, we can assume he used normal susano'o quite a lot for defense.

Also, you're forgetting the most important fact here: _Madara fought 24 hrs against God of Shinobi Hashirama, while the raikage fought fodders._



> Listen guys. I'm not downplaying Madara's abilities. But I think you guys are accepting Madara/Hashirama's hype a little too much. Yes, they're both amazing god-tier level ninjas. But we shouldn't underestimate the other Kages.



It's been implyed numerous times in the manga that Hashirama and Madara are, in fact, in a league of their own; your average kage can't defeat them.


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## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Apr 15, 2013)

saphira said:


> Klue won this thread   some people just like to twist and misinterpret manga panels for the sake of an argument...
> 
> Also, for those who say Madara would lose because he doesn't have as much stamina as his edo form...remember that he fought for 24 hrs straight against  Hashirama? How many of the kages displayed this ability? ( not talking about Hashi himself of course)



Third rikage. Fought Three Days Straight before dying. But fighting against Senju's is other thing but whatever


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## Zemmix (Apr 15, 2013)

saphira said:


> I'm pretty sure the 3rd raikage's jutsu isn't as chakra draining as susano'o. And while I'm sure Madara didn't use PS during that whole fight, we can assume he used normal susano'o quite a lot for defense.
> 
> Also, you're forgetting the most important fact here: _Madara fought 24 hrs against God of Shinobi Hashirama, while the raikage fought fodders._
> 
> ...


Yeah, this pretty much sums it up.


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## GrandLordAtos (Apr 15, 2013)

Madara could still take them down, but with a little more difficulty and concern for his own well being. Several attacks he took in his edo form we can't be 100% sure if he took for shits and giggles or if he genuinely didn't see them coming.

I'm not saying he'd have a super hard time, but you wouldn't see him tanking as many attacks and would probably see him scurrying a bit more. The 5 Kage are still strong ninja, just not at the level he's been portrayed at.


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## Edo Madara (Apr 15, 2013)

titantron91 said:


> So why can't Onoki and Muu combined beat EMS Madara?  Read the previous chapters please.



You're realize that this was happened in the past right ?

That are young Muu and teen Onoki, their powers haven't developed to their prime / current selves. Current Onoki is obviously way more powerfull than teen onoki in that flashbacks.


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## PainHyuuga (Apr 15, 2013)

this is common sense. the 5 kages thought they all needed to go to fight Madara, this atleast tells u that at the very least, Madara can hold his own against them.
However judging by what happened to the 5 kages after we saw PS.. then yes he can definitely defeat all 5.


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## Ezekial (Apr 15, 2013)

The whole "Jinton GG" comments are ridiculous, Madara has already dealt with two Jinton users at the same time, and by the look of it he didn't even try, he was holding back so much against the Kage and that's a fact, when he wanted to end it, he ended it.


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## Coldhands (Apr 15, 2013)

Of course, they can't do shit against Perfect Susano.


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## Ezekial (Apr 15, 2013)

If he was fighting seriously he would of summoned Susanoo and insta killed.


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## JPongo (Apr 15, 2013)

Gokage > EMS Madara.

No way he is going to withstand constant pressure while using PS or that many clones.

He depended on the rinnegan to save his arse against the Gaara/Oonoki/Naruto combo.

Nuff said.


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## crisler (Apr 15, 2013)

well if he didn't play he could've just used PS from the start

but then again, when the kages were defeated they were exhausted from fighting the edos from before, then fighting madara and his 25 clones...

overall i think madara would probably still win, but he would definitely have to use PS, and probably from the very start or he'll lose


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## JPongo (Apr 15, 2013)

Don't forget edo, rinnegan and Hashi cells.

That's way stronger than EMS Madara.


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## dungsi27 (Apr 15, 2013)

Perfect Susanoo + Kyubi power should do
The Madara who fought Hashirama was scary as well


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## Klue (Apr 15, 2013)

JPongo said:


> Gokage > EMS Madara.
> 
> No way he is going to withstand constant pressure while using PS or that many clones.
> 
> ...



Constant pressure while using PS?

There is nothing the Gokage can do to counter/defeat a PS wielding Madara. That much was made clear already.

They could barely deal with Susanoo's lower forms, without resorting to that overly large Dust Release.


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## Krippy (Apr 15, 2013)

Of course, this doesn't even take into account his other MS technique and the EMS technique 

add PS and genjustu on top of this and he pretty much rapes


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## Lucaniel (Apr 15, 2013)

yes, he could


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## narut0ninjafan (Apr 15, 2013)

It depends. 

If he went serious with Perfect Susanoo from the start maybe.

If he started by trying to toy with them, he would get roflstomped to oblivion. Tsunade and Onoki alone would have CURBSTOMPED him if he wasn't an Edo/had the Rinnegan.


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## T-Bag (Apr 15, 2013)

you people are stupid. not a bit least surprised. allow me to educate you with some manga quotes

"it surprises me that you still live, surely a man of your caliber could achieve anything without a hitch, why the roundabout tactics?" 

BUT WE FIGHT WITH THE POWER OF THE 5 KAGES, IS MADARA THAT INVINCIBLE?  "i'm afraid only the 1st hokage hashirama can stop him" 

"this is a* game* compared to the battle i had with hashirama" 

"perfect susano'O! I'll show you how meaningless everything has been"

if you're still not convinced you're either trolling or just stupid


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## Freechoice (Apr 15, 2013)

Klue won this thread  some people just like to twist and misinterpret manga panels for the sake of an argument...

Also, for those who say Madara would lose because he doesn't have as much stamina as his edo form...remember that he fought for 24 hrs straight against Hashirama? How many of the kages displayed this ability? ( not talking about Hashi himself of course)
__________________


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## Jizznificent (Apr 15, 2013)

it's clear that the manga is portraying madara and hashirama as monsters who are beyond even the gokages.

c'mon.


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## BatoKusanagi (Apr 15, 2013)

Nope. The only reason he beated the Gokage and avoided death was because of the rinnegan and his immortality. Base Naruto would've hit him with FRS it it wasn't for the rinnegan, without immortality and wood clones he would've died from Tsunade's punch and would've gotten sealed by Gaara.

Klue mentions that he already defeated 2 jinton users, but how long ago was that? Oonoki has come a long way, so that point is moot. 



saphira said:


> How many of the kages displayed this ability? ( not talking about Hashi himself of course)


All of them.


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## Raiken (Apr 15, 2013)

So basically: Can VotE Madara without the Kyuubi defeat the Current 5 Kage?

Without the: Senju Body-Rinnegan and Edo Tensei: Boosts he got since VotE. Also lacking the Kyuubi.
No, Madara would have definitely lost in my opinion.


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## Kyuubi Naruto (Apr 15, 2013)

Another thing before I leave this annoying thread is people are hyping the hell out of the 24hr thing. Naruto himself fought from the night to the day transformed into Sasuke, Sakura and Kabuto with his KB against an onslaught of enemies during the Forest of Death travel. It's not a big deal especially when you reach a specific level. People are overhyping as always.


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## Deleted member 45015 (Apr 15, 2013)

They could beat him, but they'd either have to get very lucky or Madara would have to get sloppy for it to happen.

As a living being with finite chakra Madara wouldn't play around and take things easy the way he did as an Edo Zombie. 

I don't see what the Gokage could do against _Perfect Susano'o_ though since they essentially just stood staring in horror and waited to be killed before the _Edo Tensei_ was ended by Itachi.


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## shintebukuro (Apr 15, 2013)

Cryorex said:
			
		

> Without specific powers from Hashirama, the Rinnegan and Edo-Tensei. Madara would have lost many times.



That's because he wasn't using his full power. If Madara didn't have all the extra fluff to play with for the first time, he would've brought out Perfect Susano'o from the get go and the Gokage would have been crushed.



> And lets say he adopted his fighting style because of that. Still, without those powers, there are certain attack combinations by the Kages he wouldn't be able to Counter.



The Gokage did their ultimate combination --their "full power"-- which they created _specifically to *counter* Rinnegan's Fuujutsu Kyuuin and Edo Tensei's undying body_...and Perfect Susano'o crushed it like an ant. 

Perfect Susano'o is >> anything the Gokage can do.


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## αce (Apr 15, 2013)

Jinton did not help Muu and Oonoki when Madara turned them into children. He'd still mop the floor with them. Everything that Oonoki has said about Madara leads to this conclusion. The only reason Madara was toying with the Kage is because he was testing Hashirama's abilities. With his own EMS abilities, which he is comfortable with, he'd simply end the fight due to boredom. 

Yes, Madara with EMS still mops the floor with the Kage. Keep telling yourselves otherwise. When 2 Tsuchikage's with Jinton can't even force Madara to try, adding 3 more Kage's won't do anything when he _is_ trying.


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## Klue (Apr 15, 2013)

Onoki, with no knowledge of Madara's Perfect Susanoo, described EMS Madara as someone whom could pull off any plan that he wanted. This description was made directly after Onoki asked why Tobi needed Sasuke to capture the GoKage.




*Spoiler*: _Ch.467_


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## Querix (Apr 15, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> Wow, sorry. I didn't realise a subject matter where we have no idea of what the outcome would be, since it's never been seen, was in fact completely obvious.
> Oh, oh wait. You're just being a silly fanboy.



Long story short, you're saying gokage > ems Madara,  even when Tsunade marvels at the gap in power once the Susanoo was stabilized?

 or is onoki getting mystified not enough? 




> Without specific powers from Hashirama, the Rinnegan and Edo-Tensei. Madara would have lost many times.



Oh the hypocrisy


*Spoiler*: __ 





Cryorex said:


> Wow, sorry. I didn't realise a subject matter where we have no idea of what the outcome would be, since it's never been seen, was in fact completely obvious.
> Oh, oh wait..






And what  part of his battle with gokage = child's play compare to shodai don't you get?



> And lets say he adopted his fighting style because of that. Still, without those powers, there are certain attack combinations by the Kages he wouldn't be able to Counter.



the best combination gokage did, got aired by madara's karasu susanoo.


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## Raiken (Apr 15, 2013)

Querix said:


> Long story short, you're saying gokage > ems Madara,  even when Tsunade marvels at the gap in power once the Susanoo was stabilized?
> 
> or is onoki getting mystified not enough?
> 
> ...


It's a possibility that VotE Madara's and Edo-Tensei Madara's Perfect Susano'os had their Size and Power upgraded by the Kyuubi's Chakra / Powerful Senju Body respectively.
Considering both times it was a comparable size to the 100% Kyuubi. Which is around 30x Bigger than Sasuke/Itachi's Final Susano'o.
While EMS Madara's Susano'o against Hashirama before the founding of Konoha was the same size as Itachi/Sasukes.

And hypocrisy? I've already stated that these are simply my beliefs. Feel free to believe them as wrong in your own mind. I'm not stating it as fact as that other guy was.

Also against Hashirama. He had the 100% Kyuubi added to his Battle Power. And still lost. That's why it's Childs play in comparison.


αce said:


> When 2 Tsuchikage's with Jinton can't even force Madara to try, adding 3 more Kage's won't do anything when he _is_ trying.


More like 1 Tsuchikage with Jinton and a Shinobi of probably Jounin Level without Jinton.
It's doubtful he already had Jinton at that age.

While 5 Kage. 1 with Jinton. And the other 4 Kages, very Powerful in their respective ways.
Hold a far bigger challenge towards Madara that what he faced against Muu.


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## Euraj (Apr 15, 2013)

Klue said:


> Onoki, with no knowledge of Madara's Perfect Susanoo, described EMS Madara as someone whom could pull off any plan that he wanted. This description was made directly after Onoki asked why Tobi needed Sasuke to capture the GoKage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I assume that was humor, but I hope no one takes that for more than it's worth. If the kage didn't think it was possible to beat him, they wouldn't have fought him in the story in the first place.

Anyhow, my take is, unless he went batshit right from the get-go, he'd get taken to school. An Onoki and Gaara combination left him wide-open to pretty much anything big someone could throw. Seeing as Madara is arrogant as hell, I assume that result would happen, but that doesn't change the fact that Perfect Susano-O would still probably beat all of them.


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## αce (Apr 15, 2013)

> I assume that was humor, but I hope no one takes that for more than it's worth. If the kage didn't think it was possible to beat him, they wouldn't have fought him in the story in the first place.



That's not true. Even when they realized they couldn't beat Edo Madara, they still continued fighting.


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## Lucaniel (Apr 15, 2013)

> I assume that was humor, but I hope no one takes that for more than it's worth. If the kage didn't think it was possible to beat him, they wouldn't have fought him in the story in the first place.



yeah

no-one in naruto fights a losing battle

they all turn their tails and run away if they don't think they can make it


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## JPongo (Apr 15, 2013)

We're not talking the Edo version here.

Why is it so difficult to understand that the gokage don't have to tank PS?

Wear Madara down then beat him.

Edo, rinnegan and Hashi cells make the EMS look like yesterday's garbage.


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## Seraphiel (Apr 15, 2013)

Even if you add someone like Minato to them they would lose.


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## shintebukuro (Apr 15, 2013)

JPongo said:
			
		

> Edo, rinnegan and Hashi cells make the EMS look like yesterday's garbage.



What did Edo Madara confirm his "full power" as consisting of?


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## αce (Apr 15, 2013)

quality posts from jpongo once again


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## JPongo (Apr 15, 2013)

Edo Madara >>>> EMS Madara.

Right or wrong?

Quality post or not?

LOL or lolno?

Here's an interesting thought: How about 5 EMS Madaras vs 1 Edo Madara?


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## TraderJoe (Apr 15, 2013)

Yes, and we haven't even seen all of Madara's abilities.


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## iJutsu (Apr 16, 2013)

Madara would've died the moment Gaara pulled him out of Susanoo. You all actually expect Madara to whip out PS right away? He treats them like kids, he's not going to start off serious even as a living being.


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## Yuna (Apr 16, 2013)

1) Jinton. Not even his Susano'o can protect from it (we don't know if Perfect Susano'o can, though).
2) He doesn't have unlimited Chakra. Eventually, he won't be able to keep Susano'o up.
3) The Kages managed to force him to regenerate on several occasions.

Survey says: *No*.


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## Seraphiel (Apr 16, 2013)

Yuna said:


> 1) Jinton. Not even his Susano'o can protect from it (we don't know if Perfect Susano'o can, though).
> 2) He doesn't have unlimited Chakra. Eventually, he won't be able to keep Susano'o up.
> 3) The Kages managed to force him to regenerate on several occasions.
> 
> Survey says: *No*.



1. Already beat two Jinton users at once without using PS.
2. Fought Hashirama or Hashirama+other senju for 24h.
3. Because he was not serious.


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## Hero (Apr 16, 2013)

Klue said:


> Constant pressure while using PS?
> 
> There is nothing the Gokage can do to counter/defeat a PS wielding Madara. That much was made clear already.
> 
> They could barely deal with Susanoo's lower forms, without resorting to that overly large Dust Release.



Actually they handled Susano'o just fine. The difficulty came when each one of them had to deal with 5. Other than that, they efficiently dealt with the technique


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## Krippy (Apr 16, 2013)

I find it kind of strange that nobody who has said he can't beat the Gokage has explained what they are going to do once PS comes out

living Madara wouldn't fuck around like he did in canon 

5 on 1 means he is pulling out the big guns early


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## Lucaniel (Apr 16, 2013)

don't you mean you find it revealing


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## Hazuki (Apr 16, 2013)

with full aknoledge on both , madara would win thanks to perfect susano 

wiith full aknoledge for kage and not madara , kage would win 

without aknoledge for both , kage might win before madara use PS , we know madara is arrogant and he won't use PS against them until he is forced to , maybe kage can win if they don't let him using his full power


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## CCV (Apr 16, 2013)

Lucaniel said:


> yeah
> 
> no-one in naruto fights a losing battle
> 
> they all turn their tails and run away if they don't think they can make it



Why do you think Itachi and kisame ran away from Jiriaya?


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## Shakar (Apr 16, 2013)

If he were alive, he wouldn't be as careless as he is as an Edo. He'd make a bigger effort to not get hit and he wouldn't fuck around.

He'd win anyway.


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