# Zoro vs Sanji (Stats)



## YonkoDrippy (Feb 15, 2021)

Which Stats do Zoro have above Sanji and vice versa? and explain why Zoro/Sanji is better in each stat

Speed:
Durability:
Endurance:
Attack Power:
CoA:
CoO:

@stealthblack @xmysticgohanx @Strobacaxi @NotTommy @Ezekjuninor @Vivo Diez @Draco Bolton @OG sama @Kroczilla @Shunsuiju

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## OG sama (Feb 15, 2021)

Speed: Sanji
Durability: Zoro
Endurance: Zoro
Attack Power: Zoro
CoA: Zoro
CoO: Sanji

Reactions: Agree 10


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## ice demon slayer (Feb 15, 2021)

Zoro is better everywhere except speed and coo

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 15, 2021)

Sanji beats in dur/spd/coo

/thread

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## YonkoDrippy (Feb 15, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Sanji beats in dur/spd/coo
> 
> /thread


Even durability?


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 15, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Even durability?


Raid suit

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 15, 2021)

I think that sanji taking no damage from kings attack (iirc) is something not a lot of people can do including zoro. I beleive he still feels it but his body is relatively unharmed


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## Bash24 (Feb 15, 2021)

Sanji is only better in CoO & Speed.


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## Captain Altintop (Feb 15, 2021)

Speed: 
Z: 88.5 - S: 92.0

Reaction:
Z: 90.0 - S: 89.0

Durability:
Z: 93.0 - S: 88.0

Endurance:
Z: 91.0 - S: 91.0

Attack Power:
Z: 92.5 - S: 86.0

CoA:
Z: 91.0 - S: 87.5

CoO:
Z: 89.0 - S: 92.0

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Dislike 1


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## Kroczilla (Feb 15, 2021)

Speed: Sanji. Don't think any real explanation is needed. Sanji has better and more frequently highlighted speed feats.
Durability: Not seen anything to suggest either has any real advantage over the other in this regard, so a tie. With RS though, obviously Sanji
Endurance: Zoro easily
Attack Power: see above
CoA: see above
CoO: Sanji easily

Reactions: Agree 3 | GODA 1 | Disagree 1


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## charles101 (Feb 15, 2021)

I mean, does it matter in world full of magic fruits, magic weapons and willpower that makes you punch hard? But ok:

Speed: Sanji - dodging Katakuri's attack, even though he used FS on him > anything from Zoro
Durability aka defense I assume: With RS - Sanji (vs King), without - Zoro (can't remember Sanji's durability feats other than welp, tanking Caesar's attack when Nami controlled his body)
Endurance aka stamina I assume: Zoro, not much to discuss here I think
Attack Power: with Enma - Zoro without a question; if Zoro takes that sword Luffy got and leaves Enma for Momo (what I assume will happen), than idk but probably still Zoro (much closer than with Enma though, that shet is nasty)
CoA: Zoro - Sanji has no impressive CoA feats
CoO: Sanji - Zoro has no impressive CoO feats

Reactions: Like 2


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## muchentuchen (Feb 15, 2021)

There are levels to this game.



Zoro's message to both the OP and the lolster trio.

Zoro >>>>>

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## NotTommy (Feb 15, 2021)

Sanji takes speed and Observation haki. Oven feat, assisting in blocking Big Mom feat, dodging Katakuri. We still don't know the extent of the Raid Suit but I wouldn't be too surprised if Zoro's is higher (but I'd understand if you base it off the Killer fight and King fight, I guess). All others go to Zoro.

Reactions: Useful 1 | Neutral 1


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 15, 2021)

Captain Altintop said:


> Speed:
> Z: 88.5 - S: 92.0
> 
> Reaction:
> ...


Explain how zoro is above sanji in reaction speed? Can u honestly see zoro dodging a bullet from kata while he's using future sight, especially after demonstrating poor CoO against pica?

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 15, 2021)

NotTommy said:


> Sanji takes speed and Observation haki. Oven feat, assisting in blocking Big Mom feat, dodging Katakuri. We still don't know the extent of the Raid Suit but I wouldn't be too surprised if Zoro's is higher (but I'd understand if you base it off the Killer fight and King fight, I guess). All others go to Zoro.


I'd  say the raid suit gives sanji a boost in durability to surpass zoro but zoro definitely takes it for endurance

Reactions: Like 1


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## Magentabeard (Feb 15, 2021)

They dont have to be close in every stat, we all know they specialize in different things. 

Speed (movement): Sanji 100 Zoro 82
Speed (reaction/stationary attacks): Zoro 100 Sanji 100
Durability: Zoro 100 Sanji 80
Endurance: Zoro 100 Sanji 85
Attack Power: Zoro 100 Sanji 63 (need to show more)
CoA: Zoro 100 Sanji 80
CoO: Sanji 100 Zoro 85

Some people are saying Sanji has better durability with RS, that must be a joke. Zoro has the best durability by far of the strawhats, this was shown in thriller bark. Zoro could take all of Luffy's damage on top of his own, fight Kuma, and still stand. No one is even close to Zoro's durability.


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 15, 2021)

Magentabeard said:


> They dont have to be close in every stat, we all know they specialize in different things
> 
> Speed (movement): Sanji 100 Zoro 82
> Speed (reaction/stationary attacks): Zoro 100 Sanji 100
> ...


You're confusing durability for endurance. Sanji tanked an attack from King meanwhile zoros body got pierced by swords from killer.


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## Captain Altintop (Feb 15, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> Explain how zoro is above sanji in reaction speed? Can u honestly see zoro dodging a bullet from kata while he's using future sight, especially after demonstrating poor CoO against pica?


They are both equal imo in reaction ... I need to change since forgot to update ...

Zoro is no slouch in reaction, it's just like he's that good in this department. I can Zoro see blocking Katakuri's bullets with his swords tbh. That's part of reaction, too.


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## Magentabeard (Feb 15, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> You're confusing durability for endurance. Sanji tanked an attack from King meanwhile zoros body got pierced by swords from killer.


But was that feat not a durability feat? Kuma stated Zoro took Luffy's pain which was the damage done to this body. Everyone would get pierced by swords if they are left open like that. Even Roger got pierced by swords. Durability is the ability to take said attack which Zoro literally just pulled that sword out used it himself.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 15, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Which Stats do Zoro have above Sanji and vice versa? and explain why Zoro/Sanji is better in each stat
> 
> Speed:
> Durability:
> ...



Zoro everything.

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## Vivo Diez (Feb 15, 2021)

Magentabeard said:


> But was that feat not a durability feat? Kuma stated Zoro took Luffy's pain which was the damage done to this body. Everyone would get pierced by swords if they are left open like that. Even Roger got pierced by swords. Durability is the ability to take said attack which Zoro literally just pulled that sword out used it himself.


It's a mixture, but clearly both narratively and going by the fact that Zoro's body was still hurting the arc after and the amounts of blood he expelled, it was meant to be more of an endurance feat than a durability feat.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kroczilla (Feb 15, 2021)

Magentabeard said:


> But was that feat not a durability feat? Kuma stated Zoro took Luffy's pain which was the damage done to this body. Everyone would get pierced by swords if they are left open like that. Even Roger got pierced by swords. Durability is the ability to *take* said attack which Zoro literally just pulled that sword out used it himself.


Durability is the ability to RESIST taking any damage in the first place.

Endurance comes into play after damage has been done i.e. when durability has been breached. The Kuma example is an endurance feat for that same reason.


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 15, 2021)

Magentabeard said:


> But was that feat not a durability feat? Kuma stated Zoro took Luffy's pain which was the damage done to this body. Everyone would get pierced by swords if they are left open like that. Even Roger got pierced by swords. Durability is the ability to take said attack which Zoro literally just pulled that sword out used it himself.


Nah bro, endurance is the ability to take thees strong attacks/pain and still go on, which is what zoro demonstrated at thriller bark. Shanks has low durability since his arm got bitten off by a sea beast but I'd assume he has high endurance since he wasnt even fazed.
Characters like big mom and kaido would have high durability, since their bodies have been shown to be near impossible to damage.


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## Magentabeard (Feb 15, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> Nah bro endurance is the ability to take thees strong attacks/pain and still go on, which is what zoro demonstrated at thriller bark. Shanks has low durability since his arm got bitten off by a sea beast but I'd assume he has high endurance since he wasnt even fazed.
> Charatders like big mom and kaido would have high durability.


Ok then I assume durability could be improved by CoA protection and any other layer of protection you have eg. logia fruits. In that case all regular humans have pretty low durability but Sanji gets a boost from RS.


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 15, 2021)

Magentabeard said:


> Ok then I assume durability could be improved by CoA protection and any other layer of protection you have eg. logia fruits. In that case all regular humans have pretty low durability but Sanji gets a boost from RS.


Yes exactly.


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 15, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> I think that sanji taking no damage from kings attack (iirc) is something not a lot of people can do including zoro. I beleive he still feels it but his body is relatively unharmed



And everyone else saying RS > Zoro in durability because RS took 1 hit from King with low to no damage....


Next panel he appears in:




Get a grip lol

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## Great Potato (Feb 15, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> I think that sanji taking no damage from kings attack (iirc) is something not a lot of people can do including zoro. I beleive he still feels it but his body is relatively unharmed



Sanji didn't tank King's attack with no damage. It actually scuffed and bloodied him up for a bit and it took a moment for Sanji to pick himself back up from that. It's a good showing for Sanji, but he didn't just no-sell it like a lot of people seem to suggest, it wouldn't be in his best interest to be on the receiving end of too many of those hits.

By feats I don't think Sanji taking an unnamed attack from King is more impressive than Zoro getting blasted out of the sky by the full force of Indra and getting up not much worse for wear.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Kroczilla (Feb 15, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> And everyone else saying RS > Zoro in durability because RS took 1 hit from King with low to no damage....
> 
> 
> Next panel he appears in:
> ...


Zoro took far more damage from Killer's scythes. Heck even Hawkins' puppet nail attack caused him to bleed.
piercing/cutting attacks seem to have the advantage in their ability to cause damage as opposed to elemental attacks.


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## Kroczilla (Feb 15, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> Sanji didn't tank King's attack with no damage. It actually scuffed and bloodied him up for a bit and it took a moment for Sanji to pick himself back up from that. It's a good showing for Sanji, but he didn't just no-sell it like a lot of people seem to suggest, it wouldn't be in his best interest to be on the receiving end of too many of those hits.
> 
> By feats I don't think Sanji taking an unnamed attack from King is more impressive than Zoro getting blasted out of the sky by the full force of Indra and getting up not much worse for wear.





Kroczilla said:


> Zoro took far more damage from Killer's scythes. Heck even Hawkins' puppet nail attack caused him to bleed.
> piercing/cutting attacks seem to have the advantage in their ability to cause damage as opposed to elemental attacks.


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## Draco Bolton (Feb 15, 2021)

I assume it's RS Sanji vs Enma Zoro

Speed: Sanji
Durability: 50/50
Endurance: Zoro
Attack Power: Zoro
CoA: Zoro
CoO: Sanji

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 15, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Zoro took far more damage from Killer's scythes. Heck even Hawkins' puppet nail attack caused him to bleed.
> piercing/cutting attacks seem to have the advantage in their ability to cause damage as opposed to elemental attacks.


Taking a full powered attack from a yonko >>>>>> Anything RS has ever shown

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## Kroczilla (Feb 15, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Taking a full powered attack from a yonko >>>>>> Anything RS has ever shown


Yet said attack somehow dealt far less damage than a scythe. Big mom's elemental attacks have never been particularly powerful in the first place. Nami had Zeus for a while and while it made her stronger,it certainly didn't bring her attack power even close to top tier status.

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## Strobacaxi (Feb 15, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Yet said attack somehow dealt far less damage than a scythe.


Zoro had 0 defenses up against the scythe. Also, Zoro is much stronger now than he was in early Wano.



Kroczilla said:


> Nami had Zeus for a while and while it made her stronger,it certainly didn't bring her attack power even close to top tier status.


She did more damage to BM than everyone else combined, with a single Zeus attack.

Also

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## Vivo Diez (Feb 15, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Taking a full powered attack from a yonko >>>>>> Anything RS has ever shown


Let's not go overboard, not every yonko attack is made in equal measure(the fact that Luffy, Kidd and Law took a direct attack from BM's fireball attack as a dare should tell you as much). All of the supernova got tagged by the lightning attack and all them were absolutely fine the next time we saw them after the attack.



Strobacaxi said:


> Zoro had 0 defenses up against the scythe. Also, Zoro is much stronger now than he was in early Wano.
> 
> 
> She did more damage to BM than everyone else combined, with a single Zeus attack.
> ...



That's clearly several magnitudes stronger than BM's lightning strikes with Indra. Silly comparison.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kroczilla (Feb 15, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Zoro had 0 defenses up against the scythe. Also, Zoro is much stronger now than he was in early Wano


Zoro equally had zero defense against Indra. Heck, it hit just as he had over-exerted himself using Emma. He has gotten stronger due to his limited mastery of Enma. Nothing indicates that he got an overall stats boost. Certainly not on the level that you seem to be suggesting.




Strobacaxi said:


> She did more damage to BM than everyone else combined, with a single Zeus attack.
> 
> Also




There's one problems with that instance

That attack seems to be on a far more massive scale than Indra.

Also,

Nami iirc used an attack from Zeus against Orochi, and it didn't seem to have done any lasting damage.

Elemental attacks just aren't anywhere close to the same level of power as big mom's actual physical strikes. Hence Zoro taking Indra while noteworthy, isn't as big a deal as you are making it out to be.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 15, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> Sanji didn't tank King's attack with no damage. It actually scuffed and bloodied him up for a bit and it took a moment for Sanji to pick himself back up from that. It's a good showing for Sanji, but he didn't just no-sell it like a lot of people seem to suggest, it wouldn't be in his best interest to be on the receiving end of too many of those hits.
> 
> By feats I don't think Sanji taking an unnamed attack from King is more impressive than Zoro getting blasted out of the sky by the full force of Indra and getting up not much worse for wear.


I wasn't sure about it. I remember Sanji being harmed by P1 in the Raidsuit though.

Sanji should still have better durability with his suit on and I think it will be emphasized more when they each have their fights this arc. Zoro has better endurance of course.


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## Unknown (Feb 15, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Taking a full powered attack from a yonko >>>>>> Anything RS has ever shown


You mean like the RS tanked the heavenly fire of Big Mom?

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 15, 2021)

In all seriousness Sanji has better durability then Zoro.


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## maupp (Feb 15, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> And everyone else saying RS > Zoro in durability because RS took 1 hit from King with low to no damage....
> 
> 
> Next panel he appears in:
> ...


It's like Sanji is so poverty feat wise that people hand on the slightest of feat from him and over exaggerate them.  

Zoro taking a named attack from a Yonkou undamaged >>> Sanji tanking some nameless King beek.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## maupp (Feb 15, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Yet said attack somehow dealt far less damage than a scythe. Big mom's elemental attacks have never been particularly powerful in the first place. Nami had Zeus for a while and while it made her stronger,it certainly didn't bring her attack power even close to top tier status.


Nami with Zeus doesn't have attacks named Indra wrath. You seriously can't compare Zeus in the hands of BM to Nami. I mean come on now.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Duhul10 (Feb 15, 2021)

Why would sanji be faster than current Zoro?

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Kroczilla (Feb 15, 2021)

maupp said:


> Nami with Zeus doesn't have attacks named Indra wrath. You seriously can't compare Zeus in the hands of BM to Nami. I mean come on now.


Well except you believe zoro is anywhere close to big mom's durability, it's quite clear that Nami's attack using Zeus was far more impressive, both in terms of sheer visuals and actual potency.

Not sure why you think Indra is some top tier attack. It's lightning with big mom's soul in it for homing attacks. Luffy resisted it completely just due to the fact that he's made of rubber, implying that haki wasn't incorporated into the attack.

Again, big mom's elemental attacks are not even comparable to her actual physical strikes.


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## YonkoDrippy (Feb 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Why would sanji be faster than current Zoro?


cause Zoro barely has any notable speed feats

Reactions: Disagree 3


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## Duhul10 (Feb 15, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> cause Zoro barely has any notable speed feats


Zoro has intercepted yonko attacks and saved Luffy's ass a couple of times. This trumps Sanji's feats.

Can't believe I'm defending Zoro   where is the Zoro guard when you need it?

Not saying Sanji can't be faster, but he currently lacks the feats.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Why would sanji be faster than current Zoro?


Cause he has booster shoes.


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## YonkoDrippy (Feb 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Zoro has intercepted yonko attacks and saved Luffy's ass a couple of times. This trumps Sanji's feats.
> 
> Can't believe I'm defending Zoro   where is the Zoro guard when you need it?
> 
> Not saying Sanji can't be faster, but he currently lacks the feats.


Brook intercepted Big Mom. Is he faster than Sanji too?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 15, 2021)

Honestly think the difference would be negligable but Sanji has always been a zippy guy where Zoro and Luffy are more strength guys.

It's like arguing Kizaru is faster than Akainu when it's not even going to be apparent in a real fight.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Duhul10 (Feb 15, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Brook intercepted Big Mom. Is he faster than Sanji too?


Full power Big Mom, or nerfed Big Mom? Are you referring to when she was chasing them?


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## Ezekjuninor (Feb 15, 2021)

Speed: Sanji 
Durability: Sanji (raid suit)
Endurance: Zoro
Attack Power: Zoro
CoA: Zoro
CoO: Sanji

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ShWanksThe Goat (Feb 15, 2021)

Speed: Sanji 90 Zoro 80
Durability: Sanji 90 Zoro 50
Endurance: Sanji 80 Zoro 90
Attack Power: Sanji 50 Zoro 90
CoA: Sanji 70 Zoro 90
CoO: Sanji 90 Zoro 80

Speed: Sanji is fast enough to blitz Lower Tier Yonko executives like Oven and Page-One. Zoro can only do so with a distraction like against Apoo.

Durability: Sanji has the Raidsuit which is shown to be capable of tanking bullets, High Tier Yonko executive attacks like King's, Big Mom's Heavenly Fire, Low Tier Yonko executive attacks like Page-One. Zoro has a natural human body like Shanks and Whitebeard that can be penetrated with bullets, blades, etc.

Endurance: Zoro has shown he can fight after being severely injured by Killer's scythe, Apoo's fighting music, and Big Mom's Lightning attack. Sanji doesn't have many endurance feats.

Attack Power: Zoro can cut Kaido's scales and throw out large mountain sized attacks. Sanji can throw out an attack on par with Vagabond Drill in Hell Memories but it's not doing much of anything to a Yonko. Zoro is Mike Tyson type of fighter while Sanji is Floyd Mayweather type of fighter.

CoA: Zoro has strong enough Haki to cut Kaido. Sanji's haki is around low tier Yonko executives as of right now from showings vs Daifuku, X-Drake, and Page-One.

CoO: Sanji's observation was hyped by even Luffy recently when climbing the tower and has extreme range with it. Zoro struggled a bit to find Pica and got caught lacking by Kamazou because of Gyukimaru.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## xmysticgohanx (Feb 15, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Speed:
> Durability:
> Endurance:
> Attack Power:
> ...


RS Sanji vs Current Zoro

Movement speed: Sanji
Reaction speed: Sanji, very comparable
Durability: Zoro
Endurance: Zoro
Attack power: Zoro
CoA: Zoro
CoO: Sanji

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Why would sanji be faster than current Zoro?


Because speed is Sanji's thing. RS grants him a big speed increase. There's no reason for Zoro to be as fast as Sanji. Sanji is faster, Zoro is stronger, Luffy is the combination of both. Also related to Sanji's preferrence for CoO, Zoro's preferrence for CoA, and Luffy's no preferrence

Let's face it, Zoro has never hit anyone without being noticed, or moved hundreds of meters before someone could notice like Sanji did with Viola, and Zoro will probably never do such things, because it's not his thing.
Zoro is fast, but slower than Sanji or Luffy.

Just like I don't expect Sanji to break a mountain like Zoro can cut one. Power is not Sanji's thing. 
Sanji is strong, but weaker than Zoro or Luffy.

It's the M3 dynamic, and it has always been.


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## Fel1x (Feb 15, 2021)

Speed: Sanji. easily so far
Durability: Raid suit
Endurance: Zoro from pre-ts times till now without any doubt
Attack Power: Enma>Zoro>Sanji
CoA: Enma>Zoro>Sanji
CoO: Sanji


so. Sanji wins 2 times, Enma 2 times, Zoro and Raid suit only once


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## Ren. (Feb 16, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> And everyone else saying RS > Zoro in durability because RS took 1 hit from King with low to no damage....
> 
> 
> Next panel he appears in:
> ...


That move literally has no comparison term.

AOE that got all 5 SN, none seem to be affected.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Even durability?



Yea. Zoro has swords which are part of his arsenal just like the RS. He can block with them and CoA infused they're sturdier than the RS.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 16, 2021)

Ren. said:


> That move literally has no comparison term.
> 
> AOE that got all 5 SN, none seem to be affected.


Like King's attack has no comparison term beyond "Attack from a YC1". This is "Attack from a Yonkou"

Yonko > YC1


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## Ren. (Feb 16, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Like King's attack has no comparison term beyond "Attack from a YC1". This is "Attack from a Yonkou"
> 
> Yonko > YC1


Again an AOE Attack, an elemental one vs a targeted attack.

Sanji also blocked with G3 Luffy an Attack from BM.

I am not going to say that Attack is super-strong and  >> YC1 attacks because it is from BM.

The same for Bm's fire balls attacks.

For the moment RS is more durable than Zoro's normal Body that is all.


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 16, 2021)

Ren. said:


> Again an AOE Attack, an elemental one vs a targeted attack.


Indra is not an AoE attack, it's 100% a targeted one.
No reason to believe an elemental attack is weaker, there's a reason why BM uses them.


People keep misunderstanding the fire balls attacks lol, they dodged the attacks and were hit from behind when the balls exploded behind them. They weren't hit head on.

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## Ren. (Feb 16, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Indra is not an AoE attack, it's 100% a targeted one.


It is an AOE attack. It was targeting anyone on the rooftop.



Strobacaxi said:


> there's a reason why BM uses them.


Yeah, we saw that with her fireballs. And yes there is, biggest range, quite fast and she can hit all 5 pretty easily.



Strobacaxi said:


> People keep misunderstanding the fire balls attacks lol, they dodged the attacks and were hit from behind when the balls exploded behind them. They weren't hit head on.


Sure BM will critically injure them ...

Come on,  can we wait for actual feats for both RS and Zoro regarding Durability and get past this BS?

Zoro's swords have better durability than the RS but the RS covers the entire body, that simple.

It is like comparing Iron man's regular suit vs Captain America's Shield, the shield is more durable maybe so is Captain American but the Iron suit is more durable overall.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Now the Zoro haters argue Big Mom's attacks are weak. Before 1003 they thought the SN's are down from getting hit by Big Mom's lightning.

 

Before the rooftop Big Mom's soul powers/homies were headcanoned to solo fucking top tiers like admirals. 

 

I love how Oda punishes those people and they're enraged and powerless to do something against it.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Ren. (Feb 16, 2021)

Oo sorry Admiral people.

Her homies are her tools she can manipulate lava, ice and mirrors to mitigate the damage from Logias.

Her power and so does Kaido's comes from their stats + elemental damage.

Tunder Bagua is called tunder for a reason it has a lightning attack from his DF on top of all Kaido's raw strength.

I mean BM can add fire on her sword and the sword can change shape and people are but her fireballs. Luffy just took boro breath and was KO by tunder Bagua before.

In fact she attacks with her hands clad in lightning and fire in WCI.

Again BM is a meme when we want but her fireballs are top-tier attacks from her when we need them to be. Classic OL.


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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

*Reiju was tanking Big Mom "heavenly fire" with her suit   years ago.....*

So there is really no need for anyone arguing on behalf of Sanji to downplay Big Mom AP or elemental attacks.
Since we know by feats since then that the suit can handle  yonko elemental attacks.
As well as physical blows by tobbi ropos and a YFM without much damages.



That's the same attack Zoro protected Luffy from using kinemon's skill, the raid suit allowed Reiju to mostly tank that shit
while Zoro used a technique to counter that attack, he did not only block it or tanked it with his durable swords.

But it's nice to finally see people admit that Zoro's tools play a major part in his performance and that their quality is a factor
...






  Even if we consider the swords as part of Zoro's durability which is pretty creative to say the least.....
Zoro needs to block or parry to have benefit from said durability, as showcased against kamazou and gyukimaru,his torso didn't beneficiate from the durability of his swords.


Because it's blatantly clear for anyone remotely honest that the suit (hyped to high heaven to downplay Sanji's achievements.....we literally had an amazing thread about its usefulness when Sanji clashed with King....) offers an efficent passive protection, and a shield with the cap.
The suit protects a far larger area without needing any move from the user..... which should not necessitate any further comments.
Against an attack with huge AoE without any initiative nor action from the defender, again efficiency is clear, which tool offer the best mean of defense?

It's quite funny to see folks deny something so evident in order to deny any advantage for Sanji over Zoro while claiming at the time that one was nerfed while the other was basically a cheater.
Impressive mental gymnastics, i'll give you guys that


*There is only one answer to this question and it's pretty clear:
Zoro: COA, AP, Endurance
Sanji: COO, Speed, Durability*

But, let's carry on, trying to have a cake and eat it.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Ren. (Feb 16, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> It's quite funny to see folks deny something so evident in order to deny any advantage for Sanji while claiming at the same time that one is nerfed while the other is basically a cheat.
> Impressive mental gymnastics.


The saddest part is you can't give Sanji any stats advantage because that makes you a hater.

Enma gave him a free AP increase to rival even Luffy but we can't give Sanji his durability PU.

Then the mods come and say that we must protect the said community and even lie about that.

RJ Sanji durability rivals that of G4 Luffy's ... I don't have to downplay Sanji to make Luffy look great, RS Sanji has better durability than Base Luffy.


The current Sanji problem is that Oda didn't show us his better AP.  Hell I want  Sanji to mimic some of Jimbei's karate but with his legs and I want Jimbe to get from Franky some sea stone knuckles or gloves and some Sory skills, imagine that big guy charging a Fishman karate fist while wearing a sea stone glove and coming at you with Soru speed.

I want BM to make Nami her own Zeus from her own Soul.
I want Robin to get COA.
I want Brook to get COO.
I want Ussop to get the knowledge to forge sea stone weapons.
Etc

I want Zoro to keep Enma and get Nidai Kitetsu, Shusui is already black, I want him to make his own black Swords.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

Ren. said:


> The saddest part is you can't give Sanji any stats advantage because that makes you a hater.
> 
> Enma gave him a free AP increase to rival even Luffy but we can't give Sanji his durability PU.
> 
> ...



Without the Zoro squad this place would not be as funny, they are hilarious (the tards among them just have to be put on ignore list, ther are limits to this shit)
I'm not even criticizing the character for the use of his tools since everyone and his mother knows that the user is the most important part... every character being juiced.
No point discussing characters while nerfing them, it would not be said incarnation with its path, growth and progression.
I'm reading One Piece, not Two Piece Universe 16.....

It's constantly reminded to us that Zoro's swords are hard to control, he can wield it because he's an exceptional swordman, just like Law and Luffy are exceptional devil fruit user who are the only ones able to handle their fruit this way....

The issue with that faction is the double standard and the hypocrysy when it comes to Sanji....
They would like you to believe that Sanji being as versatile and as skillful as he is as a martial artist plays no part in his efficiency and his strength with the Raid Suit.
*As if Brooke or Zoro could flip flop or fly effectively with the suit.....*
Shit is ridiculous


Every character has his own skills and style, Sanji is fine as a fighter and it will be showcased soon.
The same way they're right about the fact that Zoro is not slow nor lacking in reflexes (just inferior to Sanji in these categories), Sanji's AP is not weak as everyone with a brain cell should realize (just inferior to Zoro's who's abnormally good at it in their tier).
*Sanji will fuck up Queen or King, pre historic Zoans enhanced by his specy for one and by operations transforming him into a cyborg for the other.*
But they'll act like it's dubious, when everyone and his mother knows that to do so he will have to display impressive AP to put them down.
Some will argue that Sanji is shit while being enhanced by an amazing PU, which would explain why P1 humiliated him (the same dude that will get his shit pushed in by Ussop)


These guys are hilarious, personally i don't want them to go anywhere.


And yeah Zoro will certainly blacken his three swords cementing his place as the WSS and probably the strongest swordman in history.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 16, 2021)

Sanji tanks a hakiless full Zoan form casual nameless attack from a YC1 vs Zoro tanks a full powered Indra from BM who charged Zeus to full capacity earlier in the fight

Somehow Sanji's is the better feat

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Ren. (Feb 16, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> These guys are hilarious, personally i don't want them to go anywhere.


I have no problem with them, but with the staff that decides what goes and whatnot and then do backtracking on their decisions implying ethical things then when we talk about their ethical behavior ... well we stop there.

If a camp or anyone does the same as they do, I want them to be judged with the same rules, either ban us all or none.

I don't expect objectivity, I am not objective I like Luffy more than Zoro, I like Zoro and Sanji the same, hell I like Jimbe more now than both for some reason.

@Mylesime  I mean we are contesting the durability of a suit that is bulletproof, fireproof vs normal human bodies in the OP world. Should we laugh at it or ignore it and move on?

For me the Suit is more durable than Luffy, Sanji and Zoro, of course, we are including at least a normal COA for Luffy as he is immune to normal damage.


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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Sanji tanks a hakiless full Zoan form casual nameless attack from a YC1 vs Zoro tanks a full powered Indra from BM who charged Zeus to full capacity earlier in the fight
> 
> Somehow Sanji's is the better feat



We're talking about the suit that all the vinsmoke use.
It was already brought into the discussion earlier but got conveniently ignored.
*The suit tanked "heavenly fire", why don't you adress that feat?*
Keep deflecting tough.

.......
King's attack is just the cherry on top.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> We're talking about the suit that all the vinsmoke use.
> It was already brought into the discussion earlier but got conveniently ignored.
> *The suit tanked "heavenly fire", why don't you adress that feat?*
> Keep deflecting tough.
> ...



Zoro tanked Indra from Big Mom. Guess they're even in durability unless there is a reason to believe heavenly fire > Indra or if we consider the swords just like the RS as part of his arsenal that he can use for defense I'd give him the nod here.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> if we consider the swords just like the RS as part of his arsenal that he can use for defense I'd give him the nod here.


Why would we be doing that we are not testing the durability of the swords? but the entire body if attacked Indra for example will not be blocked by the swords.
If you say he would counterattack, then that would not be tanking anymore.

That sword did not help with the stab from nerfed Killer, the RS would help a lot.

If you want to say that Zoro can block more damage than RS Sanji, sure as the swords are more durable.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Zoro tanked Indra from Big Mom. Guess they're even in durability unless there is a reason to believe heavenly fire > Indra or if we consider the swords just like the RS as part of his arsenal that he can use for defense I'd give him the nod here.



He endured it like the 3 others.
*The difference between tanking said attack and enduring it is literally embodied by Luffy.*

Concerning why the raid suit is more suited than the swords as a defensive mechanism and durability tool, once again obvious shit:
One tool is an armor, the other a sword.
They are literally geared in priority for a specific use, hence why one character has mainly an increase in AP and the other in defense and durability. (I said mainly, since obviously both also get an increase in other stats simultaneously, Zoro's COA boost , Sanji's speed with the accelerator device,etc,etc).

DIstracted or not the suit would have protected Sanji's torso.....shit is obvious for anyone willing to see.
But it seems that it would burn you to admit that Sanji beats Zoro in several areas.
You're struggling, doing everything in your power to come up with convoluted explanations.
You guys are even including some sub categories out of  your asses to increase the so called disparity

It's a reach Luffy would be proud of, and i admit quite creative.

But keep going, it's quite entertaining to read.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Feb 16, 2021)

Movement Speed: Luffy > Sanji > Zoro
Combat Speed: Luffy > Zoro > Sanji
Durability: Luffy = Sanji > Zoro
Endurance: Zoro > Luffy > Sanji
Attack Power: Zoro >>> Luffy >> Sanji
CoA: Zoro > Luffy > Sanji
CoO: Luffy > Sanji > Zoro

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> He endured it like the 4 others.
> The difference between tanking said attack and enduring it is literally embodied by Luffy.



The RS endured the fire what's the difference? 

Zoro's sword slice said fire too.



Ren. said:


> Why would we be doing that we are not testing the durability of the swords? by the entire body if attacked Indra for example will not be blocked by the swords.
> 
> That sword did not help with the stab from nerfed Killer, the RS would help a lot.
> 
> If you want to say that Zoro can block more damage than RS Sanji, sure as the swords are more durable.



No idea what you wanna say. Guess you agree with your last sentence that his swords are more durable than the RS. Since it's in his arsenal and can be used for defense, it's superior durability in his arsenal, it doesn't cover his whole body though but under the right circumstances without driving the plot of the story further to meet Hiyori, giving Zoro Emma that Killer stab would most likely not even happen in the first place as seen when Zoro faced Gyukimaru and Kawamatsu tried to stab him in the back.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ren. (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> The RS endured the fire what's the difference?
> 
> Zoro's sword slice said fire too.


... No comment.



TheWiggian said:


> No idea what you wanna say. Guess you agree with your last sentence that his swords are more durable than the RS. Since it's in his arsenal and can be used for defense, it's superior durability in his arsenal, it doesn't cover his whole body though but under the right circumstances without driving the plot of the story further to meet Hiyori, giving Zoro Emma that Killer stab would most likely not even happen in the first place as seen when Zoro faced Gyukimaru and Kawamatsu tried to stab him in the back.


Again Yoru being in the possession of Mihwak does not make Mihawk more durable than Kaido.

It is not even worth debating this.
It is like saying having the most durable sword makes you more durable than having the most durable full-body suit that is less durable than the sword. Waste of time debating that.

Also, we are not discussing why it happens but regarding the result, Zoro in all his fights can not and will not block all attacks, the Suite does that to a degree of damage for all attacks.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> The RS endured the fire what's the difference?
> 
> Zoro's sword slice said fire too.



Last post, since you're evidently cornered and would rather die than tell the truth as it seems apparent:
*You're basically running in circles, arguing about the difference between a sword and an armor just because it's almost impossible for you to admit Zoro's inferiority in that specific area.*
Which highlights the gravity of the situation, the bias and the dishonesty.


1) *Sanji'*s raid suit endured, like Luffy fruit neutralized electricity , which means that overall and in the end Sanji and Luffy as characters have efficient defensive mechanism which protect them without lifting a finger....They tank. *He uses an armor.*

2) Zoro's *swords, sliced, so he attacked* ,*and did not simply block * which highlight his improved offense with the technique Kinemon uses, his AP not his durability...... Zoro countered "heavenly fire", did not block, nor avoid....
Zoro bleeds, endure and keep going until he slices his opponent, that's his MO, that's how he dealt with Killer and Daz Bones.

It's basically like denying that raizo's scroll are a better defensive tools, protection than Kinemon's swords....

But keep going.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

When did blocking with swords come under durability?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Ren. (Feb 16, 2021)

Beast said:


> When did blocking with swords come under durability?


If Luffy will attack with a KKG Kaido's TB next time that is because his body tanked  that move and his durability goes up

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

Beast said:


> When did blocking with swords come under durability?



Since Zoro is able to do it with a training tool that nerfs him in the process.
#Heneverwentallout
#Heneverwill
#Criminallyunderrated

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Ren. said:


> ... No comment.



Why not? It got a treshold of heat it can resist. We saw Big Mom's fire overcoming it and damaging the user wearing a "fireproof suit"



Ren. said:


> Again Yoru being in the possession of Mihwak does not make Mihawk more durable than Kaido.
> 
> It is not even worth debating this.
> It is like saying having the most durable sword makes you more durable than having the most durable full-body suit that is less durable than the sword. Waste of time debating that.



I thought you guys take everything into consideration? All equipment. Iam fine with comparing tools vs tools and physical body with physical body.



Mylesime said:


> Last post, since you're evidently cornered and would rather die than tell the truth as it seems apparent:
> 
> 1) *Sanji'*s raid suit endured, like Luffy fruit neutralized electricity , which means that overall and in the end Sanji and Luffy as characters have efficient defensive mechanism which protect them without lifting a finger....They tank. *He uses an armor.*







Mylesime said:


> 2) Zoro's *swords, sliced, so he attacked* ,*and did not simply block * which highlight his improved offense with the technique Kinemon uses, his AP not his durability...... Zoro countered "heavenly fire", did not block, nor avoid....



So the sword is > that fire similair to the RS?



Mylesime said:


> Zoro bleeds, endure and keep going until he slices his opponent, that's his MO, that's how he dealt with Killer and Daz Bones.
> 
> It's basically like denying that raizo's scroll are a better defensive tools, protection than Kinemon's swords....
> 
> But keep going.



Well you haven't refuted anything 



Beast said:


> When did blocking with swords come under durability?



When all tools been included in the evalution of stats.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Yea. Zoro has swords which are part of his arsenal just like the RS. He can block with them and CoA infused they're sturdier than the RS


To say that his swords are sturdier than the raid suit is just a baseless claim, especially as we've seen zoro's swords can get shattered and broken or rusted. We have yet to see any lasting or prominent damage done to the raid suits, neither from sanji or his siblings. Also including blocking with his swords as part of his durability doesn't make any sense.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> To say that his swords are sturdier than the raid suit is just a baseless claim, especially as *we've seen zoro's his swords can get shattered and broken or rusted.* We have yet to see any damage done to the raid suits, neither from sanji or his siblings. Also including blocking with his swords as part of his durability doesnt make any sense.



When has this happened after he learned haki?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> Since Zoro is able to do it with a training tool that nerfs him in the process.
> #Heneverwentallout
> #Heneverwill


 




TheWiggian said:


> When all tools been included in the evalution of stats.


What tools?
Mas far as I’m aware... blocking an attack with swords... is not in anyway shape or form, in any language that I know... count as durability.

I don’t know... might just be me.


Ren. said:


> If Luffy will attack with a KKG Kaido's TB next time that is because his body tanked  that move and his durability goes up


Damn.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Beast said:


> What tools?
> Mas far as I’m aware... blocking an attack with swords... is not in anyway shape or form, in any language that I know... count as durability.



So you believe swords are extensions of his limbs ?

Iam truly fine by stacking up tools vs tools and physical stats vs physical stats, not putting bias into evaluation like we count 1 tool as stats boost but the other not. 

But who am i to judge?

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> When has this happened after he learned haki?


That doesn't change the fact that using occassionally his thin swords to block, and having to react in time to block attacks will never be as useful or as reliable as having a raid suit that is seemingly indestructible without having to block and you could just stand there and be chill.


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## Ren. (Feb 16, 2021)

Staff, I will just watch from here as we are debating if the sky is blue. Take notes and next time we might improve discussions.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> That doesn't change the fact that using occassionally his thin swords to block, and having to react in time to block attacks will never be as useful or as reliable as *having a raid suit that is seemingly indestructible without having to block and you could just stand there and be chill.*



Well you can't just stand there and be chill as seen when the power rangers been injured despite having a seemingly indestructible suit.

Else they wouldn't need to do anything than standing around until the opponont tires out trying to injure the wearer of that suit.


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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> So you believe swords are extensions of his limbs ?
> 
> Iam truly fine by stacking up tools vs tools and physical stats vs physical stats, not putting bias into evaluation like we count 1 tool as stats boost but the other not.
> 
> But who am i to judge?


Lol... swords can become an extension of the users limbs, that’s that swordsmanship 101 top level mastery.

Yeah, except Zoro has to block for his swords to be used as defence and durability is not about your defence while blocking or parrying attacks. But hey, you gotta try squeeze in that win for Zoro I get it.
Except there is one massive difference between the two... Sanji doesn’t need to block for his durability to still be in effect with the RS but he can block the attack on top of the excellent durability given by the RS, Zoro has to block for the swords to be of any effect and that’s not what is be discussed, so once you know the difference between tanking an attack via durability alone and blocking with set tools like a swords are not remotely the same.

well, I can help you with that just at your leading commander for the real truth. @Donquixote Doflamingo

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

It’s like me saying that Sanji has better durabilty then BM because he can dodge attacks and take zero damage while BM is slow as fuck and will take damage.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Beast said:


> Lol... swords can become an extension of the users limbs, that’s that swordsmanship 101 top level mastery.
> 
> Yeah, except Zoro has to block for his swords to be used as defence and durability is not about your defence while blocking or parrying attacks. But hey, you gotta try squeeze in that win for Zoro I get it.
> Except there is one massive difference between the two... Sanji doesn’t need to block for his durability to still be in effect with the RS but he can block the attack on top of the excellent durability given by the RS, Zoro has to block for the swords to be of any effect and that’s not what is be discussed, so once you know the difference between tanking an attack via durability alone and blocking with set tools like a swords are not remotely the same.
> ...



Iam not squeezing anything out. Iam applying the logic of the RS being a tool just as the swords are and i take all aspects of them into evaluation. So you're saying the raid suit isn't blocking the incoming damage to the real body? The fuck are you on dude?

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 16, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> That doesn't change the fact that using occasionally his thin swords to block, and having to react in time to block attacks will never be as useful or as reliable as *having a raid suit that is seemingly indestructible without having to block and you could just stand there and be chill.*





TheWiggian said:


> Well you can't just stand there and be chill as seen when the power rangers been injured despite having a seemingly indestructible suit.
> 
> Else they wouldn't need to do anything than standing around until the opponont tires out trying to injure the wearer of that suit.


Even so, haki is limited, haki strength is based off haki mastery, haki does not last forever. IF zoro were to be hit by a strong attack and his haki had run out, what do you think will happen to his blades and to him?


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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Iam not squeezing anything out. Iam applying the logic of the RS being a tool just as the swords are and i take all aspects of them into evaluation. So you're saying the raid suit isn't blocking the incoming damage to the real body? The fuck are you on dude?


So to you... a suit of armour and swords are one and the same... well, I think that about wraps this whole discussion up.

so when Sanji attacks... it’s the RS doing damage not him?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> Even so, haki is limited, haki strength is based off haki mastery, haki does not last forever. *IF zoro were to be hit by a strong attack and his haki had run out, what do you think will happen to his blades and to him?*



First that scenario has to happen. As far as iam concerned this never happened so


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Beast said:


> So to you... a suit of armour and swords are one and the same... well, I think that about wraps this whole discussion up.



So what is the difference? Both suit and swords block incoming damage, the concept is the same. Swords only cover a smaller area.


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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

Zoro has better durability then Luffy as well because Swords hardness> rubber fruit durability.

I mean if swords and armour are one and the same... that counts for DFs to right ck

Reactions: Winner 2


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Beast said:


> Zoro has better durability then Luffy as well because Swords hardness> rubber fruit durability.
> 
> I mean if swords and armour are one and the same... that counts for DFs to right ck



Why are you dodging to other characters now? I thought we compare weapons/tools.


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> First that scenario has to happen. As far as iam concerned this never happened so


If it can happen to luffy during prolonged fights, it can happen to zoro and to anyone, and it WILL happen to zoro unless you are implying zoro will never have a prolonged fight? You're basically trying to say zoro will never run out of haki? I guess he will finish kaido in less than 10 minutes. if he doesnt and his haki runs out, i guess he will have to rely on his "real durability" (the same one durability that was pierced by killers swords and hawkins nails). What a sight to see WHEN that happens.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> If it can happen to luffy during prolonged fights, it can happen to zoro and to anyone it WILL happen to zoro unless you are implying zoro will never have a prolonged fight? You're basically trying to say zoro will never run out of haki? I guess he will finish kaido in less than 10 minutes. if he doesnt and his haki runs out, i guess he will have to rely on his "real durability" (the same one durability that was pierced by killers swords and hawkins nails). What a sight to see WHEN that happens.



I don't rule it out that it "could" happen. But you gotta have a case to build on. If you show me a single swordsman in this manga who ran out of haki during a fight i will concede that point.

Luffy's haki depletion is directly tied to his DF combined with it, it doesn't apply to Zoro at all.


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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> So what is the difference? Both suit and swords block incoming damage, the concept is the same. Swords only cover a smaller area.


So... you don’t actually know the difference between a suit of armour from a sword?
Well, you’re a friend so I won’t give up so early.
Sword is a weapon, a weapon that can be used to attack/ parry or block, it’s got a handle so you can hold it.
Suit of armour is as it says a suit of armour used to be worn to take less damage or no damage depending on the quality of the suit and materials used for it.
Now, your turn... can you now tell the difference between a sword and a suit of armour?


TheWiggian said:


> Why are you dodging now?


Dodging? I thought I used your level of logic and understanding very well?
Did I not reach far enough? 
personally I would say a better comparison would be... either Namis staff or Ussops slingshot but one step at a time, I’m still teaching you the difference between a weapon and a suit of armour, maybe next weeks lesson.


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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> So what is the difference? Both suit and swords block incoming damage, the concept is the same. Swords *only *cover a smaller area.



Please stop it's getting painful to watch.
You've come to the point where you're asking the difference between a sword and an armor, you're literally the last man standing on that island....
My niece in kindergarden could pick up the subtle difference.




Take the scene with Gyukimaru against Killer?
Distracted or not Killer would have to hit the head in order to deal damages, otherwise he would have to bypass the suit and Sanji natural body durability to do so.

  When Doflamingo successfully moved behind luffy and kicked him in the back?
That's durability. Basically passive defense.


Shit is obvious you just won't admit it, i'm genuinely surprised by your bad faith, call me impressed.
I'm proud of you and your display, i'm speechless.
Who am i kidding...

Regarding the swords durability.
They're fueled with past wielders soul, presence and coa to some extent, doubt that they could be easily damaged even if the current wielder can no longer use coa.


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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

Natural durability they are equal, Zoro can boost his a little more with BH but that is completely and utterly taken away by the boost in durability of the RS. 
I mean, it’s quite straight forward but one step at a time, slowly but surely... even maybe, we will get to the light.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Beast said:


> So... you don’t actually know the difference between a suit of armour from a sword?
> Well, you’re a friend so I won’t give up so early.
> Sword is a weapon, a weapon that can be used to attack/ parry or block, it’s got a handle so you can hold it.
> Suit of armour is as it says a suit of armour used to be worn to take less damage or no damage depending on the quality of the suit and materials used for it.
> Now, your turn... can you now tell the difference between a sword and a suit of armour?



How does the taking no damage part happen wearing said armor? Does it possibly block incoming damage or is it just negating the incoming damage/attack through magic?



Beast said:


> Dodging? I thought I used your level of logic and understanding very well?
> Did I not reach far enough?
> personally I would say a better comparison would be... either Namis staff or Ussops slingshot but one step at a time, I’m still teaching you the difference between a weapon and a suit of armour, maybe next weeks lesson.





Mylesime said:


> Please stop it's getting painful to watch.
> You've come to the point where you're asking the difference between a swrod and an armor, you're literally the last man standing on that island....
> My niece in kindergarden could pick up the subtle difference.
> 
> ...



Weapon blocks incoming damage, armors blocks incoming damage. Difference is the area/scale. You guys even combined can't disprove that

 

_Armour, also spelled armor, also called *body* armour, protective clothing with the *ability* to *deflect or absorb the impact* of projectiles or other weapons that may be used against its wearer._


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> I don't rule it out that it "could" happen. But you gotta have a case to build on. If you show me a single swordsman in this manga who ran out of haki during a fight i will concede that point.
> 
> Luffy's haki depletion is directly tied to his DF combined with it, it doesn't apply to Zoro at all.


Haki is tied to stamina, haki depletes stamina regardless of whether you are luffy or not. Haki increases as you fight strong opponents and as far as i'm concerned zoro hasnt fought many strong opponents in the new world - unlike luffy.

"*Busoshoku Haki is subjected to depletion if used for long periods of time as it is said to be proportional to the amount of spiritual life force an individual possesses as well as their remaining stamina.* After the threshold is reached, the user will be unable to use it for a certain amount of time. It appears that the more Haki is used, the faster it will deplete. The users are unable to use Haki until they regain their stamina to use it again."
​​


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> Haki is tied to stamina, haki depletes stamina regardless of whether you are luffy or not. Haki increases as you fight strong opponents and as far as i'm concerned zoro hasnt fought many strong opponents in the new world - unlike luffy.
> 
> "*Busoshoku Haki is subjected to depletion if used for long periods of time as it is said to be proportional to the amount of spiritual life force an individual possesses as well as their remaining stamina.* After the threshold is reached, the user will be unable to use it for a certain amount of time. It appears that the more Haki is used, the faster it will deplete. The users are unable to use Haki until they regain their stamina to use it again."
> ​​



Yeah that's why i said i don't rule it out that it can happen, but i have yet to see a swordsman running out of haki only coating swords instead of a massively inflated body that doubles the consumption by your haki tied to stamina explanation. So far Luffy is the only person who has trouble with that.


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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> How does the taking no damage part happen wearing said armor? Does it possibly block incoming damage or is it just negating the incoming damage/attack through magic?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay... you’re still having a hard time reading simple words as it seems... so I’ll put it straight to you.

Personally I think I did a better job then Google but... I’ll let google handle it.

As nouns the difference between armour and a weapon...
‘*is* that *armor is* (uncountable) a protective layer over a body, vehicle, or other object intended to deflect or diffuse damaging forces while *weapon is* an instrument of attack or defense in combat or hunting, eg most guns, missiles, or swords.’


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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Weapon blocks incoming damage, armors blocks incoming damage. *Difference is the area/scale*. You guys even combined can't disprove that






Seems like you don't read carefully apparently.
It's not a detail, that's why he has better durability. His ass is covered without having to lift a finger, his back too....
That's why since mediaval times , heck since milleniums folks are able to make the difference between a spear, a sword, and an armor.....

Who the fuck talks about Kaido's club or Napoleon when talking about the two yonkou's durability?
We talk about Kaido's zoan form because it enhances, and covers his whole body passively... same principle.

Stop it dude, we're trying to help you get through this.
Take this L, you'll feel better soon after. You'll feel less lonely.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Yeah that's why i said i don't rule it out that it can happen, but i have yet to see a swordsman running out of haki only coating swords instead of a massively inflated body that doubles the consumption by your haki tied to stamina explanation. So far Luffy is the only person who has trouble with that.


Mate it's not hard, as long as zoro uses haki it doesn't matter if he is a swordsman - it will run out. The only reason we haven't seen zoro run out of haki is because he hasn't had any long fights since he entered the new world. Against kaido zoro will 100% run out of haki and you can hold me to that.
Even if we assume g4 doubles haki consumption, g4 at most lasts 20-30 minutes meaning that any other person will run out of haki in less than an hour.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Beast said:


> Okay... you’re still having a hard time reading simple words as it seems... so I’ll put it straight to you.
> 
> Personally I think I did a better job then Google but... I’ll let google handle it.
> 
> ...



_They taught mostly combat for duels, not for war, and duels were often not very long, so *swords could* certainly withstand a few gouges and notches. ... In modern fencing their edgeless pseudo-*weapons can block* *any and all possible attacks using most any blade portion.*_


So it can block just as the armor. So you still haven't proven anything. I think it's pointless to argue this further, both tools block incoming damage.



Mylesime said:


> Seems like you don't read carefully.
> It's not a detail, that's why he has better durability. His ass is covered without having to lift a finger, his back too....
> 
> Who the fuck talks about Kaido's club or Napoleon when talking about the two yonkou's durability?
> ...



Iam merely including all tools like you guys do in this comparison, why you blame me for that? Iam fine if you guys don't want to do that.



TheRealSJ said:


> Mate it's not hard, as long as zoro uses haki it doesn't matter if he is a swordsman - it will run out. The only reason we haven't seen zoro run out of haki is because he hasn't had any long fights since he entered the new world. *Against kaido zoro will 100% run out of haki and you can hold me to that.*
> Even if we assume g4 doubles haki consumption, g4 at most lasts 20-30 minutes meaning that any other person will run out of haki in less than an hour.



I will do that, until then it's merely an assumption on your part.


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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Iam merely including all tools like you guys do in this comparison, why you blame me for that? Iam fine if you guys don't want to do that.



We all do.
Hence why Zoro's AP shits on Sanji's by current feats, and will still be clearly superior once they go all out.
His swords while enhancing his defense don't put his durability above Sanji's.
No matter how you spin it.
But hey, do you.
Good luck.

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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> _They taught mostly combat for duels, not for war, and duels were often not very long, so *swords could* certainly withstand a few gouges and notches. ... In modern fencing their edgeless pseudo-*weapons can block* *any and all possible attacks using most any blade portion.*_
> 
> 
> So it can block just as the armor. So you still haven't proven anything.



there isn’t a reason to straight up lie, Again... I still have you to see why blocking counts as durability. The suit withstands the damage, it does not block the attack.


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 16, 2021)

Dunno said:


> Movement Speed: Luffy > Sanji > Zoro
> Combat Speed: Luffy > Zoro > Sanji
> Durability: Luffy = Sanji > Zoro
> Endurance: Zoro > Luffy > Sanji
> ...


woah woah woah........
i almost let this go unchecked. its already debatable whether zoros combat speed>sanji but did you just claim zoro has better attack power and CoA than that of luffy........?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Beast said:


> there isn’t a reason to straight up lie, Again... I still have you to see why blocking counts as durability. The suit withstands the damage, it does not block the attack.



The suit blocks the damage that is supposed to injure the body. There is no reason to drag this out further. I would include the swords as his tools/weapons as part of his durability considering he stops a major part of attacks/damage from injuring his body similiary to an armor. Concept is the same. If you don't like that, it's fine with me.


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## Ren. (Feb 16, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> but did you just claim zoro has better attack power and CoA than that of luffy........?


I saw that even COA 3.0 is not enough to have a better COA than Zoro.




The group of people that call me a Zoro hater while we are discussing the definition of blocking thanks to them ... thanks mods, such a pleasure.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> *I would include the swords as his tools/weapons as part of his durability *


Well there you have ladies and gentlemen.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 16, 2021)

Ren. said:


> I saw that even COA 3.0 is not enough to have  better COA than Zoro.


I'm confused, are you agreeing or do you genuinely think zoro has better coa than luffy?


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## Ren. (Feb 16, 2021)

Beast said:


> Well there you have ladies and gentlemen.


That means Mihawk is more durable than Kaido.  
And I can prove it, If both jump 10km from Sky island Yoru will not have a headache making Mihawk the most durable of the two, dead but the most durable.



TheRealSJ said:


> I'm confused, are you agreeing or do you genuinely think zoro has better coa than luffy?


I am sarcastic.

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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

Ren. said:


> That means Mihawk is more durable than Kaido.
> 
> 
> I am sarcastic.


Well thanks to wiggian, that’s not how it works... who is more durable... Yoru vs club. I’ll make a thread.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Beast said:


> Well there you have ladies and gentlemen.



Have what? Taking 1 tool into the consideration while not doing the same for another character (that you don't like to put it mildly)?

Both armor and weapon blocking incoming damage truly has you on the knees with not even google capable of lending you a hand.


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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Have what? Taking 1 tool into the consideration while not doing the same for another character (that you don't like to put it mildly)?
> 
> Both armor and weapon blocking incoming damage truly has you on the knees with not even google capable of lending you a hand.


You said what you said... I don’t think I need to add anymore. Your words speak for themselves... now, take your expertise to the thread I made


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 16, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> We're talking about the suit that all the vinsmoke use.
> It was already brought into the discussion earlier but got conveniently ignored.
> *The suit tanked "heavenly fire", why don't you adress that feat?*
> Keep deflecting tough.


The anti-fire suit wasn't damaged by fire? Color me shocked

Is Zoro made of rubber and so undamageable by lightning? No? Then where's the comparison?

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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> The anti-fire suit wasn't damaged by fire? Color me shocked
> 
> Is Zoro made of rubber and so undamageable by lightning? No? Then where's the comparison?



Like i said earlier the answer to this question is clear for everyone to see.
And the "debate" getting dumber and dumber by the post, i think i' m going to leave, let  you guys go at it.

You do realize that if we apply your reasoning, which is to say a tool or a skill doing what it was designed to realize make the feats unimpressive.....
There is nothing to brag about a sword slicing, and cutting stuffs?
Even moreso when the skill used was also created specifically to counter and cut fire, the means used by Zoro to counter Boro breath or heavenly fire?




Obviously the scale and the magnitude of the said feat, the efficiency of the weapon , the users are to be commended in order to evaluate the area it was supposed to affect in the first place, here durability....
But i get it, according to you guys, tanking a YFM assault means shit, while successfully pushing back an admiral is the real deal, getting is leg cracked is some atrocious injury when Ussop is back on  track after having his entire skeletton shattered (he did take a nap), resisting Big Mom elemental attacks means shit too....

Okay.
You guys sure are impartial

Take care.

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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Beast said:


> You said what you said... I don’t think I need to add anymore. Your words speak for themselves... now, take your expertise to the thread I made



You quoted only the part that you saw would fit for you to continue to spread a half-truth/lie. Says alot about your persona bro. Didn't expect this, but life keeps teaching you new things.

Anyway enjoy your day

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## Strobacaxi (Feb 16, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> And the "debate" getting dumber and dumber by the post, i think i' m going to leave you guys go at it.


And then says this:


Mylesime said:


> There is nothing to brag about a sword slicing, and cutting stuffs?



LUL

You missed the part where a sword can't cut everything unless it's user is strong enough but the something that is imune to fire is ALWAYS imune to fire? Something that is imune to lightning is always imune to lightning?

Like I know Buggy arc and Alabasta arc were about 20 years ago, but shit you can reread them whenever you want bro, you can easily see how Zoro is unable to cut steel despite having the exact same swords that later on are able to cut steel, making cutting steel a feat for Zoro

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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

I’m actually amazed at this.
I’ll take a ban but I think it has to be said... Zoro fans are retards, literally no way around it.


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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> And then says this:
> 
> 
> LUL
> ...



Dude i don't think that Zoro or any swordman for that matter cutting stuff isn't praiseworthy, that was the whole point of my post.
I was using your guys logic to show how dumb it was. Shit can be applied to every single feats by the character since he centered his fighting style towards it.
Law's ability to dissect within his "room".
Luffy's durability.
Zoro's cutting prowess, Enma enhancing his CoA output.
You can shit on anything applying the logic you used to diss the suit.
I don't.
If you do keep the same energy and stop the double standard.

I didn't miss that part, that's why Sanji's durability is superior.
Did you miss the part where we were trying to explain the difference between a sword and an armor to @TheWiggian?
The suit inherent ability to resist to fire and physical impacts among other things is the reason why it's absolutely laughable to claim that Zoro has the edge in that category.

Simply put your guys position is unsustainable, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Highlighting Zoro's merit and skills which is praise worthy, while denying at the same time Sanji's undeserved clear advantage in some areas.

That's without even touching upon the fact that you're simultaneously ignoring Sanji's role in that defense if you want to use blocking and parrying for Zoro to boost his durability.
Base Sanji was countering alongside Luffy's elephant gun Big Mom's attack protecting Reiju ( who was equiped with her suit contrary to her brother).
Do you guys realize for instance the extent of Sanji's resistance to Fire when *his innate resistance to fire is added* to the fireproof quality of his suit.....something you didn't take into account obviously.
But of course Zoro has better durability.
You guys keep enlightening us.

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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> I didn't miss that part, that's why Sanji's durability is superior.
> Did you miss the part where we were trying to explain the difference between a sword and an armor to @TheWiggian?
> The suit inherent ability to resist to fire and physical impact among other things is the reason why it's absolutely laughable to claim that Zoro has the edge in that category.
> 
> ...



Why you keep mentioning me knowing to well both armor and weapons/swords can be used to block damage?

Just look at Mr.1 and how much he blocked with his swords. As i said previously it can be used just as the armor.

SO yea it's part of his defense, aka durability else Zoro would my mincemeat at this point.


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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Why you keep mentioning me knowing to well both armor and weapons/swords can be used to block damage?
> 
> Just look at Mr.1 and how much he blocked with his swords. As i said previously it can be used just as the armor.
> 
> SO yea it's part of his defense, aka durability else Zoro would my mincemeat at this point.



Keep going you'll figure it out eventually.
*One of the two does it better......which one?
 *

The example you're using should make it obvious....
Had Mr1 possessed an armor and not blades, he would not have needed to block shit since Zoro could not bypass his immunity.....


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 16, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> Did you miss the part where we were trying to explain the difference between a sword and an armor to @TheWiggian?


uhm I did, because you were replying to me, not to him. 



Mylesime said:


> The suit inherent ability to resist to fire and physical impact among other things is the reason why it's absolutely laughable to claim that Zoro has the edge in that category.


lolwut

His suit is imune to fire, it's not a feat of durability to tank a fire attack. If he tanked Indra, that would be a feat. Tanking King, that was a feat. His suit has increased durability against physical attacks, but it has no imunity. He'll still be damaged by strong physical attacks. That's why it's a feat to tank King.
Zoro is not resistant to lightning, yet he tanked Indra. That's a durability feat.

The suit inherent ability to increase durability makes it laughable to claim that Zoro is more durable? Guess that makes RS more durable than Kaido too? 



Sanji's best feat of durability = Tanking a casual attack from King
Zoro's best feat of durability = Tanking a casual attack from BM

Which is best? It's pretty obvious.



Mylesime said:


> Base Sanji was countering alongside Luffy's elephant gun Big Mom's attack protecting Reiju


Good for him, what does that have to do with what we're arguing? And considering the fact that the same Sanji was equally matching Daifuku's genie, I'd say most of that countering BM was done by Luffy.



Mylesime said:


> Do you guys realize for instance the extent of Sanji's resistance to Fire when *his innate resistance to fire is added* to the fireproof quality of his suit.....But of course Zoro has better durability.


Sanji has better durability because he's imune to fire? lol


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> Keep going you'll figure it out eventually.
> *One of the two does it better......which one?
> *
> 
> ...



Yes Sanji's body is better covered, already argued that before, doesn't take away Zoro's ability to perform on the same level, arguably better as the swords with haki are sturdier than the RS and can block more devastating attacks.

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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> His suit is imune to fire, it's not a feat of durability to tank a fire attack







Strobacaxi said:


> Guess that makes RS more durable than Kaido too?



What?
Did you miss the part where Killer with borrowed scythe went through his chest, whereas Kaido has been no selling countless assault, some from the same killer equiped with his regular gears as he told us himself?
Double standard once again.
You can't be taken seriously.
So it's fine for Kaido to tank attacks thanks to his scales, but Sanji raid suit abilities aren't granted to the character right?




Strobacaxi said:


> Sanji's best feat of durability = Tanking a casual attack from King
> Zoro's best feat of durability = Tanking a casual attack from BM


You deciding to not count the suit feat against Big Mom is supposed to erase it from our collective mind?




Strobacaxi said:


> Good for him, what does that have to do with what we're arguing? And considering the fact that the same Sanji was equally matching Daifuku's genie, I'd say most of that countering BM was done by Luffy.


Stay focused.
@TheWiggian doesn't care about durability since Sanji has an edge.
You don't care about fire elemental attackS because it's not fair in your IMPARTIAL rankings and your evaluation.
And you also decided that rather than Sanji and Luffy being equally responsible for the block against Big Mom,the most logical explanation was that  he was a cheerleader despite having asked Luffy to stay put inside Capone.....

I'm genuinely impressed by you guys.
Good stuff, i want some

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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> SO yea it's part of his *defense*, aka durability else Zoro would my mincemeat at this point.



You think you're slick ?

Defense= durability now.
You thought we would get it slide.

It was fun.
Take care.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> You think you're slick ?
> 
> Defense= durability now.
> You thought we would get it slide.
> ...



RS is not a defense? And who is we? Multiple personalities too?

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## Mylesime (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> RS is not a defense? And who is we? Multiple personalities too?


Don't play dumb it's not necessary..... i swear.
Read the opening post, attack and defense weren't mentionned but some specific categories....
You guys coming up with alternative categories is a no no.
Combat speed?
Rotative speed?
Hand eye coordination?
Grip?

Stay focused.


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 16, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> You deciding to not count the suit feat against Big Mom is supposed to erase it from our collective mind?


I've told you a million times.

If you can't be burned, not being burned is not a feat, just like Luffy tanking Enel wasn't a durability feat. Good trolling attempt, but you're boring me I'm out


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> Don't play dumb it's not necessary..... i swear.
> Read the opening post, attack and defense weren't mentionned but some specific categories....
> You guys coming up with alternative categories is a no no.
> Combat speed?
> ...



No idea what you're babbling about. I believe your buddy Beast responded with this to me:



Beast said:


> Okay... you’re still having a hard time reading simple words as it seems... so I’ll put it straight to you.
> 
> Personally I think I did a better job then Google but... I’ll let google handle it.
> 
> ...



Now you decide to deny that armor is a defense? Hilarious.

The funnier part is:

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## Beast (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> No idea what you're babbling about. I believe your buddy Beast responded with this to me:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Look at Luffy wearing armour and a sword plus his DF... Samurai Luffy the most durable person in the world 

you’re highlighting skills are the worst... the post says the opposite of what you’re trying to say... armour and a sword are not close to being the same.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## LordVinsmoke (Feb 16, 2021)

Sanji has better speed and observation haki and durability he might not have the endurance  as zoro but he has some good endurance feats sanji had broken ribs and got up


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## YonkoDrippy (Feb 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> The suit blocks the damage that is supposed to injure the body. There is no reason to drag this out further. I would include the swords as his tools/weapons as part of his durability considering he stops a major part of attacks/damage from injuring his body similiary to an armor. Concept is the same. If you don't like that, it's fine with me.


There’s still time to delete this

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## Great Potato (Feb 16, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Zoro took far more damage from Killer's scythes. Heck even Hawkins' puppet nail attack caused him to bleed.
> piercing/cutting attacks seem to have the advantage in their ability to cause damage as opposed to elemental attacks.



Hawkins nails probably wouldn't have penetrated the Raid Suit, so that's fair for Sanji. I think it's sturdier in the sense that you need a higher magnitude of attack in order to start doing real damage, but on the upper-threshold of attacks I think Zoro currently holds the best durability feat between them. 



Ren. said:


> It is an AOE attack. It was targeting anyone on the rooftop.



Indra is a targeted attack that she nailed Killer and Zoro with.

Tenjin is the AoE attack that hit the whole rooftop.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## o0Fujitora0o (Feb 16, 2021)

Dunno said:


> Movement Speed: Luffy > Sanji > Zoro
> Combat Speed: Luffy > Zoro > Sanji
> Durability: Luffy = Sanji > Zoro
> Endurance: Zoro > Luffy > Sanji
> ...


 CoA Zoro > Luffy ? AP Zoro >>> Luffy ? well gg then

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## Dunno (Feb 16, 2021)

o0Fujitora0o said:


> CoA Zoro > Luffy ? AP Zoro >>> Luffy ? well gg then


Certainly seems that way. Luffy has other strengths though, that you can see in my rankings, which is why he can still put up a fight against Zoro. And CoA obviously impacts AP, and that is included in the AP ranking. This is of course not taking into account an eventual G5, which seems likely if Kaido is really going down this fight.

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## Ren. (Feb 16, 2021)

Dunno said:


> And CoA obviously impacts AP


Again, please read the manga where Zoro even is shocked by Luffy's new COA. There is no legitimate way for Zoro's COA to be even the same level. Who I am kidding you read Two Piece.

AP I put the definition several times, it is not cutting large things only.

An alternative term for *Destructive Capacity* which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.

We are aware that this technically violates the principle of , as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well.

Also, kindly remember that Attack Potency is the measure of Destructive Capacity of an attack, and as such, is measured via its energy damage equivalent. Hence, characters that destroy mountains or islands are not automatically mountain or island level, especially if they are small. The attack potency *depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack*.

Based on that Zoro's AP has no chance being >>> Luffy's. Because that means one attack will do so much more damage than Luffy's strongest attack on Kaido.


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## ho11ow (Feb 16, 2021)

Speed: Sanji>Zoro(Judge booster tech>yonko)

Durability: Sanji>Zoro (King no named attack> fully fed Big Mom named attack)

Endurance: Sanji>Zoro (take beating from Black Maria crew and only pass out for a moment > any Zoro's feat)

Attack Power: Sanji>Zoro (beating F6 > headliner Apoo)

CoA: Sanji>Zoro (beating permanent blackened teeth user > borrowing Oden haki)

CoO: Sanji>Zoro ( one word: jellybean)

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## Extravlad (Feb 16, 2021)

Sanji's speed underwater was compared to a mere average fishman by Usopp.

Meanwhile Zoro speedblitzed a drug-enhanced Hody Jones, the apex predator and alpha male of the Fishmen race at that time

Clearly Zoro's speed surpasses Sanji by an enormous margin

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## ice demon slayer (Feb 16, 2021)

King no named attack>Bm named attack ?

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## muchentuchen (Feb 16, 2021)

Mofukas I said there is levels to this game, let's spell the gap out: Zoro has better power/speed feats pre TS than post TS Sanji.

- Zoro is the only one to see Mihawk deflecting bullets with his sword, everybody else wondered why the bullets didn't hit him.
- Whiskey Peak Zoro disappeared in front of the eyes of a 100 people and did it twice again to remove the fluke part, then he dodged a point blank hidden shotgun only to dodge another point blank double gun after.
- Zoro's slashes were too fast for Franky and Brooke's eyes in the Ryuuma fight, even the flying slashes.
- Nobody saw Kuma move or the paw cannons he blasted, Kuma then explained those badboys move at the speed of light. Zoro dodged a 1000 while observing how they worked and successfully counter-attacked in the right moment _while_ dodging. 1 paw took the entire SH crew down.
- Zoro then took Luffy's 100 shadow strain that KO'd him + his pain + his fatigue + his hunger + you get it, everything. What happend? Zoro was still standing and said NOTING HAPPENED.

Show me one post TS dura/speed feat of Sanji coming close to these. We talk from there.

I'm not even going to involve post TS and how Zoro's unnamed flying slash gave an Admiral chills and sent him flying, as well as feeling compelled to recognize the ferocity of it. Oh, did I mention the underwater speed blitz of the apex alpha fishman on steroids of the entire race?

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## TheRealSJ (Feb 16, 2021)

muchentuchen said:


> Mofukas I said there is levels to this game, let's spell the gap out: Zoro has better power/speed feats pre TS than post TS Sanji.
> 
> - Zoro is the only one to see Mihawk deflecting bullets with his sword, everybody else wondered why the bullets didn't hit him.
> - Whiskey Peak Zoro disappeared in front of the eyes of a 100 people and did it twice again to remove the fluke part, then he dodged a point blank hidden shotgun only to dodge another point blank double gun after.
> ...


- was still standing after a point blank el thor from Enel, while already in bandages. 
- tanked a named attack from daifukus genie that later was shown to take down multiple ships at once with minimal damage.

- speedblitzed oven and was so fast he couldn't even see a single movement from him, and grabbed chiffon and took her back to the ship without his presence being noticed,all before pound could deliver an already in motion punch, which would have to be less than 2 seconds.

Speed blitzing a yonko executive>blitzing drug addict fodder Jones.
- had  no problem moving "like a fishman" while under 10000kg of water outside of his bubble 
- survived starvation for 60
days as a child which shows great endurance.

- kicked big pan (a giant) so hard he stood him upright.

- broke ovens collarbone with a single unnamed kick, who was said to have the strurdiest body of the triplets in the vivre card.

- tanked an attack from King who was able to knock over big mom's ship, which was said to be multiple kilometres long.

Try again.

Reactions: Like 1


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## muchentuchen (Feb 16, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> - was still standing after a point blank el thor from Enel, while already in bandages.
> - tanked a named attack from daifukus genie that later was shown to take down multiple ships at once with minimal damage.
> 
> - speedblitzed oven and was so fast he couldn't even see a single movement from him, and grabbed chiffon and took her back to the ship without his presence being noticed,all before pound could deliver an already in motion punch, which would have to be less than 2 seconds.
> ...


So...let's recap: an oven, a big pan, fish and daifuku desserts. Are you trying to cook something? Wrong reply and wrong thread?

This is a fine cooking channel if you're interested:

Kuma lightspeed paw > germs 123 existance. Yeahhhhh boiiiiiiiiii

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 16, 2021)

muchentuchen said:


> So...let's recap: an oven, a big pan, fish and daifuku desserts. Are you trying to cook something? Wrong reply and wrong thread?
> 
> This is a fine cooking channel if you're interested:
> 
> Kuma lightspeed paw > germs 123 existance. Yeahhhhh boiiiiiiiiii


Instead of making a well developed reply you just make shitty jokes about sanji being a cook. 

If you're going to consistently bring up zoro dodging kumas paw, they aren't actually light speed, the air was just propelled at light speed creating a hypersonic shock wave, the paws do not necessarily move at light speed.

If you truly believe they were moving at light speed, you must also believe pre-ts zoro is FTL, and if that was the case he should have blitzed and stomped mihawk back at baratie.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Thdyingbreed (Feb 16, 2021)

I feel like there’s quite a bit of people who still don’t know the difference between endurance and durability like the difference actually is not that hard to grasp a durability feat is tanking an attack with no damage while endurance is enduring an attack despite taking damage.

Prime examples of this is Zoro taking Luffy’s pain which is an endurance feat not a durability feat and Big Mom being immune to 99% of attacks like her tanking Nami’s Zeus Tempo WCI is a durability feat not an endurance because her skin is nigh impenetrable.

Speaking of BM let’s not downplay her elemental attacks we’ve seen her use impressive attacks like her turning Prometheus into a miniature sun and there’s zero chance she can’t replicate large scale thunder attacks like what Zeus Tempo that Nami did in WCI with Zeus.

But Big Mom hasn’t really used any of her high end elemental moves yet I’d argue most the attacks were probably mid end attacks.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Corax (Feb 17, 2021)

Sanji beats him in speed/mobility and CoO. In the rest Zoro is superior.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Ren. (Feb 17, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> If you truly believe they were moving at light speed, you must also believe pre-ts zoro is FTL


If that was LS then what is this:



Light can travel at light speed because photons have no mass.

Air is made out of gases like O2 and other elements, all of them have mass.

So if the light was traveling at LS, Kuma cannons can not travel at LS.

Or you can read the text that says it was repealed at LS aka not traveling at LS.

And the simplest, you can read the name of the poster and ignore the entire post.


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## Beast (Feb 17, 2021)

Zoro better haki then luffy?  

Zoro still needs to surpass his own damn sword nevermind his captain.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Informative 1


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## Unknown (Feb 17, 2021)

Speed: Stealth Black > Sanji > Zoro
Durability: Stealth Black > Zoro > Sanji
Endurance: Zoro > Sanji
Attack Power: Enma > Zoro > Sanji
CoA: Enma > Zoro > Sanji
CoO: Sanji > Zoro

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Ren. (Feb 17, 2021)

Unknown said:


> Attack Power: Enma > Zoro > Sanji
> CoA: Enma > Zoro > Sanji


Someone had to do it.

I am glad that it was not me.

I am sick of G4 but G3 but G2.

Now we have that for Sanji and Zoro, Enma Zoro and Stealth Black!


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## Mercurial (Feb 18, 2021)

Unknown said:


> Speed: Stealth Black > Sanji > Zoro
> Durability: Stealth Black > Zoro > Sanji
> Endurance: Zoro > Sanji
> Attack Power: Enma > Zoro > Sanji
> ...


Can I suggest a butthurt medicament for your pain? Don't struggle, cry and rant can hurt you.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## muchentuchen (Feb 18, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> If you truly believe they were moving at light speed, you must also believe pre-ts zoro is FTL, and if that was the case he should have blitzed and stomped mihawk back at baratie.


You don't think Mihawk moves faster than ligh speed? Kizaru > = Rayleigh <<< Mihawk >> Kizaru.
Kuma ate all those you mentioned for breakfast, that's why it became a cooking show! Thinkinig about it, it's sad that Zoro clashed with an enemy pre TS that is stronger than all of post TS Sanji's enemies BUT it makes sense.

So bring legit stuff or it remains:




Beast said:


> Zoro better haki then luffy?
> 
> Zoro still needs to surpass his own damn sword nevermind his captain.



Both WB and the Pirate King wanked Enma >> Luffy's path to PK. Zoro's still ahead

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Feb 18, 2021)

muchentuchen said:


> You don't think Mihawk moves faster than ligh speed? Kizaru > = Rayleigh <<< Mihawk >> Kizaru.
> Kuma ate all those you mentioned for breakfast, that's why it became a cooking show! Thinkinig about it, it's sad that Zoro clashed with an enemy pre TS that is stronger than all of post TS Sanji's enemies BUT it makes sense.
> 
> So bring legit stuff or it remains:
> ...


Shut up

Reactions: Funny 3 | Informative 1


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## muchentuchen (Feb 18, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Shut up


Or what?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ren. (Feb 18, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Shut up


That is easy to do, hit the ignore button.

Reactions: Like 2 | Lewd 1


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## Kingslayer (Feb 19, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Shut up


I love that Shanks avy showing no mercy .

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mercurial (Feb 20, 2021)

Big Mom >>> King I think that is incontestable

RS Sanji (>>> Base Sanji) after a non named and seemingly casual move from King



Zoro after a named and seemingly serious move from Big Mom



RS durability   

People do not get that strong characters bar Kaido and Big Mom all have a body of human flesh, that can be wounded theoretically even with a knife wielded by a fodder. That does not matter. What does matter is that their bodies are so strong that they can receive massive damage and suffer heavy wounds and still make it through, like Zoro vs Mr 1, Rufy vs Katakuri, Whitebeard in Marineford etc.

The feat shows how tough is Zoro, and also how tough are the other Top Supernovas, Law, Kidd and Killer. Sanji couldn't even make a Supernova, let alone a top one.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Unknown (Feb 20, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Big Mom >>> King I think that is incontestable
> 
> RS Sanji (>>> Base Sanji) after a non named and seemingly casual move from King
> 
> ...


As if Sanji didn't stop a serious attack of Big Mom in base (with Luffy).
Also the RS tanked an attack of one of the 3 main hommies of Big Mom.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Kroczilla (Feb 20, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> What does matter is that their bodies are so strong that *they can receive massive damage and suffer heavy wounds and still make it through*, like Zoro vs Mr 1, Rufy vs Katakuri, Whitebeard in Marineford etc.


That's called ENDURANCE, you .... lovely human being

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Mercurial (Feb 20, 2021)

Unknown said:


> As if Sanji didn't stop a serious attack of Big Mom in base (with Luffy).
> Also the RS tanked an attack of one of the 3 main hommies of Big Mom.


A nameless punch attack directed to weak ass Reiju... it's still good, but come on I don't really think is even similar to a named DF move directed to Supernovas you just acknowledged strong.
Also."With Luffy"

Btw, you completely missed the point.
It's not that RS isn't tough.
It's that characters who are stronger than Sanji, like Zoro, Kidd, Law and so on, are massively tougher, even if their bodies have normal human flesh.



Kroczilla said:


> That's called ENDURANCE, you .... lovely human being


And that's what I was talking about. It wasn't a space physics essay, I thought.
But maybe that was too hard. I know your level of manga analysis is gags and nothing more, after all.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Kroczilla (Feb 20, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> And that's what I was talking about





Mercurial said:


> RS durability

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kroczilla (Feb 20, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> A nameless punch attack directed to weak ass Reiju


>Talks about "nameless punch"

> Said punch was combined with Zeus's lightning which is suddenly a "serious attack" coz zoro took a hit

> Said punch was attempted after Reiju tanked a "serious named DF attack"

> After a flashback and the arc as a whole which emphasized that big mom's physical power was by far her greatest attribute as opposed to her DF abilities.

You really suck at this, kid.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Ren. (Feb 20, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> You really suck at this, kid.


Not just him, all of them!

He is just the most vocal now.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ren. (Feb 20, 2021)

Also, I am a Zoro hater for saying that I don't think Zoro will ever have the power to defeat Sanji with less than low high diff.   

The same for Luffy to Zoro.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## muchentuchen (Feb 20, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> That's called ENDURANCE, you .... lovely human being


Endurance is more associated with gastank but it's ultimately more impressive than durability and here's why: It takes a special type of person to stand with arms crossed, chin up, blood pouring out from every angle and simply state NOTHING happened. A durable person may not have the mental capacity to go that far and thus choose the first exit on the highway. But to be as impressive as Zoro, one needs a high level of durability to begin with otherwise the body will simply shut down despite having apex endurance.

Darkshine (OPM) is a prime example. As soon as the armor is cracked (physical leading to mental very quickly) the fear of quitting, losing and running takes over. My boy Zoro has the ability to take anybody to deep waters and drown them in their own blood or even his own if he has to.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Kroczilla (Feb 20, 2021)

muchentuchen said:


> Endurance is more associated with gastank


Depends on the context. In the case we are clearly referring to the term in relation to Pain Tolerance which no one doubts zoro has in spades, second only to Luffy and White beard imho.

Edit: forgot about Franky's feats in that regard. Zoro gets bumped down.


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## Beast (Feb 20, 2021)

Swords counting for the swordsmen durability is still the funniest thing in this thread.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

Beast said:


> Swords counting for the swordsmen durability is still the funniest thing in this thread.



You keep laughing despite being incapable of refuting something silly as that?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Beast (Feb 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> You keep laughing despite being incapable of refuting something silly as that?


There isn’t any reason to disprove it.
This is the funniest shit I’ve seen in a while... I think it paints the picture of the ZKK sect very well.
and it’s not me that’s upset and in turmoil over it because guess what... I didn’t say it, you did.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

Beast said:


> There isn’t any reason to disprove it.
> This is the funniest shit I’ve seen in a while... I think it paints the picture of the ZKK sect very well.
> and it’s not me that’s upset and in turmoil over it because guess what... I didn’t say it, you did.



Oda: Zoro blocks with his swords from literally chapter 3 in the story.

Zoro haters: "This is the funniest shit I've seen", "swords are not part of Zoro's arsenal".


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## Beast (Feb 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Oda: Zoro blocks with his swords from literally chapter 3 in the story.
> 
> Zoro haters: "This is the funniest shit I've seen", "swords are not part of Zoro's arsenal".


Hahahahaha even more gold.
you’re like a clown that keeps shitting on himself, first time it’s funny... then it gets sad, the more you sit in your own shit.

I will say... don’t put words in my mouth, everyone can read for themselves... or do you need me to just post what you said all on your own?
there was no talk of Arsenal or blocking, you were just trying to say swords count as durability, you not me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

Beast said:


> Hahahahaha even more gold.
> you’re like a clown that keeps shitting on himself, first time it’s funny... then it gets sad, the more you sit in your own shit.
> 
> I will say... don’t put words in my mouth, everyone can read for themselves... or do you need me to just post what you said all on your own?
> there was no talk of Arsenal or blocking, you were just trying to say swords count as durability, you not me.



Be my guest and bring it up. Blocking was in nearly every sentence I responded with. 



So after all you still don't have any argument that disproves it other than having a big mouth.


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## Beast (Feb 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Be my guest and bring it up. Blocking was in nearly every sentence I responded with.
> 
> 
> 
> So after all you still don't have any argument that disproves it other than having a big mouth.


And what exactly were you responding to?
Obviously reading the English language has become to hard a task for you.
No one asked about blocking, we were talking about durability, I mean... it’s in the thread, You said swords count for Zoros durability, not in no English language I know does that mean blocking... but hey, you can only push yourself so far, maybe next week.

as I’ve said already, you’re inability to understand the English language... you’ve already proved yourself wrong. I’m just doing what anyone would do... laugh at the misplaced ignorance.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

Beast said:


> And what exactly were you responding to?
> Obviously reading the English language has become to hard a task for you.
> No one asked about blocking, we were talking about durability, I mean... it’s in the thread, You said swords count for Zoros durability, not in no English language I know does that mean blocking... but hey, you can only push yourself so far, maybe next week.
> 
> as I’ve said already, you’re inability to understand the English language... you’ve already proved yourself wrong. I’m just doing what anyone would do... laugh at the misplaced ignorance.



Your whole argument has become "you're a Zoro tard" and "you can't understand english" while you literally have no idea what "stay on topic" means yet you suggest your english is fine.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Beast (Feb 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Your whole argument has become "you're a Zoro tard" and "you can't understand english" while you literally have no idea what "stay on topic" means yet you suggest your english is fine.


There has been no argument. Only you seem to think there is more to discuss. You’ve already made the statement, everyone has already seen it... I’m doing what I’ve been telling you. 


Beast said:


> I’m just doing what anyone would do... laugh at the misplaced ignorance.


I’m 99% sure you’re the one having problems communicating back with people.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

Beast said:


> There has been no argument. Only you seem to think there is more to discuss. You’ve already made the statement, everyone has already seen it... I’m doing what I’ve been telling you.
> 
> I’m 99% sure you’re the one having problems communicating back with people.



You keep telling me that you couldn't refute my point all the time, yet you think you're the one laughing?


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## Beast (Feb 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> You keep telling me that you couldn't refute my point all the time, yet you think you're the one laughing?


You still think there is something to refute... clearly you’re embarrassed about being wrong, you’re in the right thread, so help yourself... print this whole thread out and take it your parents or whoever looks after you, I’m sure they will break it down for you in whatever language that you understand best.
I’ve told you already, I’ve been laughing, you’re the one that keeps coming back to argue it... even though it’s done.

you’re still a good friend, so don’t take it to heart when people end arguments
With because of what I’ve done to you I. This thread.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## HaxHax (Feb 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Your whole argument has become "you're a Zoro tard" and "you can't understand english"


He's got a point

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 20, 2021)

HaxHax said:


> He's got a point



Maybe  

But it's not relevant to the discussion regarding a cook and a mosshead ^^


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## Ren. (Feb 21, 2021)

Oh, brother the blocking thing again.


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## Kingslayer (Feb 21, 2021)

Offtopic : As Spaniard my english is damn terrible , it was worst when i joined forum and i still struggle to use perfect and past tense lol. People end up misunderstanding my post .


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## Ren. (Feb 21, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> Offtopic : As Spaniard my english is damn terrible , it was worst when i joined forum and i still struggle to use perfect and past tense lol. People end up misunderstanding my post .


So again Zoro taked minimal damage from KKG, can tag Snake man +FS + gepo and now can cut Sanji's legs.

O wait we are all haters for not believing this dogma.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kingslayer (Feb 21, 2021)

Ren. said:


> So again Zoro taked minimal damage from KKG, can tag Snake man +FS + gepo and now can cut Sanji's legs.
> 
> O wait we are all haters for not believing this dogma.


Cant help out man  , Oda will soon give them king vs Zoro if poll number have Zoro leading again . 

They probably want Zoro to be scaled to luffy thats why we are seeing whole pre udon luffy threads pop up and dehyping sanji's feat ( Yet to see his 1 vs 1 fight so i am reserving my  judgment) before concluding if Sanji will be up with M2 or not .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Feb 21, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> Yet to see his 1 vs 1 fight so i am reserving my judgment


I keep been saying that from before Wano arc.

Current feats from Zoro vs fast enemies like Sanji and Luffy is non-existent speed wise this is why DD in DressRosa would troll all his moves and finish him in DressRosa of course similar to how he handled Law who is far more hax.

Dragon Kaido is a joke to even base Luffy speed-wise:




Zoro with Enma one-shot moves will never hit RS Sanji if he misses a giant-ass Dragon that is Tagged by G3 pre-Udon Luffy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Feb 21, 2021)

Speed: Sanji
Durability: Sanji
Endurance: Zoro
Attack Power: Zoro
CoA: Zoro
CoO: Sanji

Reactions: Agree 2


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## DarkRasengan (Feb 22, 2021)

Speed: Sanji - 85, Zoro - 60
Durability: Sanji - 90, Zoro - 70
Endurance: Zoro - 90, Sanji - 80
Attack Power: Zoro - 95, Sanji 65
CoA: Zoro -  90, Sanji - 65
CoO: Sanji - 85, Zoro - 50

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 2


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## Gianfi (Feb 22, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Sanji beats in dur/spd/coo
> 
> /thread


This, if Sanji has RS. Without it Zoro takes Dur


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## Ren. (Feb 22, 2021)

Gianfi said:


> This, if Sanji has RS. Without it Zoro takes Dur


Zoro also has Enma for his AP so yeah it is all tools included.


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 20, 2021)

i just wanna know why people think Zoro has better durability then base Sanji


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## TheWiggian (Apr 20, 2021)

LordVinsmoke said:


> i just wanna know why people think Zoro has better durability then base Sanji



Funny I wanted to ask the opposite since not even RS comes close to base Zoro in durability.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mercurial (Apr 20, 2021)

Speed: Zoro

- Short bursts and combat speed = Zoro 8,5/10, Sanji 7,5/10
- Movement speed = Zoro 6/10, Sanji 8/10
- Reaction speed = Zoro 9/10, Sanji 7,5/10

Durability: Zoro

- Base = Zoro 6/10, Sanji 5,5/10
- Enhanced (Zoro with swords + CoA, Sanji with RS) = Zoro 9,5/10, Sanji 8/10

Endurance: Zoro 9/10, Sanji 7/10

Attack Power: Zoro 9,5/10, Sanji 7,5/10

Haki: Zoro 8,5/10, Sanji 6,5/10

CoC = Zoro 6/10, Sanji 0/10
CoA = Zoro 9/10, Sanji 5/10
Coo = Zoro 5/10, Sanji 7,5/10

Total: Zoro 86/100, Sanji 70/100

Bonus

Being a simp = Sanji 100/10
Being a cuck = Sanji 100/10
Method to fight a Yonko = Both have. Zoro can wound and scar him. But Sanji can cook for him!

Reactions: Like 3


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Funny I wanted to ask the opposite since not even RS comes close to base Zoro in durability.


Yet we always see Zoro Bleeding


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 20, 2021)

Sanji Beats Him in Speed CoO and Durability(Not including RS)


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 20, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Speed: Zoro
> 
> - Short bursts and combat speed = Zoro 8,5/10, Sanji 7,5/10
> - Movement speed = Zoro 6/10, Sanji 8/10
> ...


if Sanji has Better Coo then wouldnt he have better reactions then


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## TheWiggian (Apr 20, 2021)

LordVinsmoke said:


> Yet we always see Zoro Bleeding



Yep and we see RS Sanji bleed from inferior attacks.



Ocean Sovereignty >>>>>>> Nameless beak attack and fodder kicks.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LordVinsmoke (Apr 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Yep and we see RS Sanji bleed from inferior attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> Ocean Sovereignty >>>>>>> Nameless beak attack and fodder kicks.


That Still doesnt change the fact the Zoro is  bleeding 10x as much as Sanji


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## TheWiggian (Apr 20, 2021)

LordVinsmoke said:


> That Still doesnt change the fact the Zoro is  bleeding 10x as much as Sanji


Yes Zoro got way more blood than Sanji which confirms that his manhood is way bigger too.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Captain Altintop (Apr 20, 2021)

Durability = Mix of damage soak capabilities + own body sturdiness / defence 
Endurance = Capabilities of fighting or running or staying awake for a long time ... It doesn't refer to tanking damage.

Zoro is noticeably better than Sanji in durability. He is a better tank plus his body is sturdier in terms of own physical defence.
But they are rather equal in terms of pure endurance when they both could run a 100 km marathon route without any problems.

Jack vs Base Inu / Neko is the best example when Jack demonstrated his great endurace being able to fight for 5 days ... 
He has also great tanking abilites but his body is quite penetrable, therefore overall great but not outstanding durability.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ShadoLord (Apr 20, 2021)

Speed: Zoro and Sanji (Zoro has a better reaction and burst speed while Sanji is better in movement speed)
Durability: Zoro (Sanji need to tank something as good as Hakkai, which is never happening again lmao)
Endurance: Zoro (both are durable but Zoro outfeats Sanji, especially when he stayed awake from taking in Luffy's damage and stayed conscious)
Attack Power: Zoro
CoA: Zoro
CoO: Sanji

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LaniDani (Apr 20, 2021)

Speed:Sanji
Durability:Zoro
Endurance:Zoro
Attack Power:Zoro
CoA:Zoro
CoO:Sanji

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Karma (Apr 20, 2021)

Which one has the better CoC tho?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## convict (Apr 20, 2021)

Movement speed: Sanji
(Combat speed: Draw)
Durability: Sanji (RS)
(Defense: Zoro)
Endurance: Zoro
CoA: Zoro
CoO: Sanji

(CoC: You know  )

Reactions: Like 1


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## Perrin (Apr 20, 2021)

Speed: Sanji, the Oven feat was wonderful.
Durability: Sanji. I think Kings beak had more penetrative power than Killers scythe and RS no-sold that.
Endurance: Zoro. Took Luffys pain better than Sanji took a hilt thump. Chap beat first half of grand line permanently injured. Great roof feats regarding endurance. He’ll always bleed more than Sanji but he can bleed a lot longer.
Attack power: Zoro. Asura feat wins for now.
CoA: Zoro. 
CoO: Sanji.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Unknown (Apr 20, 2021)

Zoro said:


> Durability: Zoro (Sanji need to tank something as good as Hakkai, which is never happening again lmao)


Zoro didn't tank Hakkai, he hold it for a second and almost died in the process.


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## ShadoLord (Apr 20, 2021)

Unknown said:


> Zoro didn't tank Hakkai, he hold it for a second and almost died in the process.


Which is still above anything Sanji has shown to take.


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## Unknown (Apr 20, 2021)

Zoro said:


> Which is still above anything Sanji has shown to take.


So something that Zoro didn't tank is above anything Sanji tanked... Good to know, but it doesn't help with the comparation.
You have to compare the best Zoro has tanked with the best Sanji has tanked, and not the best Sanji has tanked with something that Zoro couldn't tank.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## TheRealSJ (Apr 20, 2021)

Zoro said:


> Which is still above anything Sanji has shown to take.


Then that would be an endurance feat not a durability feat.....
I feel like I have to tell people everyday there is a difference between endurance and durability everyday, there's a reason it's 2 seperate categories.....

Anyway:
Combat speed: Sanji
Reaction speed: equal roughly, they both have great reaction speed feats
Movement speed and mobility: Sanji
Durability: RS Sanji
AP/DC: Zoro
Endurance: Zoro
Armament haki: Zoro
Observation Haki: Sanji
CoC Is under AP/DC as Zoro imbues them into his attacks to increase lethality.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Baroxio (Apr 21, 2021)

LordVinsmoke said:


> Sanji Beats Him in Speed CoO and *Durability(Not including RS)*


Sanji almost broke his legs fighting Vergo, man.

There is no universe wherein Sanji _*without*_ Raid Suit has better durability than Zoro.

Reactions: Winner 6 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## LordVinsmoke (May 3, 2021)

People Are Getting  Confused By Durability and Endurance The Best Definition is this *Durability* means you don't take damage. *Endurance* is the ability to keep going despite damage Zoro Has Human-Level Durability Examples of This WB ,Zoro Human-Level Durability But Extremely Large Amounts of Endurance

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Geomancertactics (May 11, 2021)

Speed: Sanji easy
Durability: Zoro has better natural durability, Sanji's should be higher with the raid suit though
Endurance:  Zoro
Attack Power: Enma Zoro> RS Sanji> Pre-Enma Zoro> Pre RS Sanji
CoA: Zoro easy
CoO: Sanji easy

Reactions: Like 1


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## Peppoko (May 12, 2021)

Speed: Sanji
Durability: Zoro
Endurance: Zoro
Attack Power: Zoro
CoA: Zoro
CoO: Sanji

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## LadyVados (May 12, 2021)

Zoro is better in everything

Lol at all the people saying Sanji is faster than Zoro, Zoro blitzed Kaido. He is the fastest straw hat, except maybe Brook.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Mercurial (May 12, 2021)

Zoro: Blitzed Kaido in a 1 vs 1 with a frontal attack and no external help or distractions 
Sanji: Was unable to dodge a frontal attack by Full Zoan Drake in a 1 vs 1 without distractions

Some people: Simpji Cucksmoke is faster

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 2


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## Strobacaxi (May 12, 2021)

Zoro didn't blitz Kaido, he countered Kaido. Kaido reacted to Zoro so it wasn't a blitz.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Geomancertactics (May 12, 2021)

> Zoro blitzing Kaido

The absolute schizophrenic interpretations of Zorostans

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Dunno (May 12, 2021)

It actually wasn't a blitz. Kaido had time to block the attack, he just wasn't strong enough to do so. That being said, keeping up with Hybrid Kaido is still faster than Sanji in terms of combat speed. Sanji has faster movement speed though, of course.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Neutral 1


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## LordVinsmoke (May 13, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> Zoro is better in everything
> 
> Lol at all the people saying Sanji is faster than Zoro, Zoro blitzed Kaido. He is the fastest straw hat, except maybe Brook.


lol
Sanji Has Better CoO Speed Physical Strength And Speed And Durability which was calced at city block to multi-city block level in Base

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (May 13, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> Sanji Has Better Physical Strength

Reactions: Funny 5


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## LordVinsmoke (May 13, 2021)

No Swordstyle Zoro Vs Sanji


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## LordVinsmoke (May 13, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> Zoro is better in everything
> 
> Lol at all the people saying Sanji is faster than Zoro, Zoro blitzed Kaido. He is the fastest straw hat, except maybe Brook.


Attack Speed Feat

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Eustathios (May 13, 2021)

Zoro is superior in all stat, except maybe CoO.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## LordVinsmoke (May 13, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Zoro is superior in all stat, except maybe CoO.


Even Durability And Speed? 
Also Care To Explain How

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Eustathios (May 13, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> Even Durability And Speed?



Raid Suit Sanji may have better durabilty. As for speed, Zoro is probably above him yeah. Might change because Sanji will get feats soon, but the gap between them is quite significant for now.

Reactions: Like 1


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## LordVinsmoke (May 13, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Raid Suit Sanji may have better durabilty. As for speed, Zoro is probably above him yeah. Might change because Sanji will get feats soon, but the gap between them is quite significant for now.


Base Sanji has better durability for sure Speed Zoro might have better combat attack speed but travel speed i doubt


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## Strobacaxi (May 13, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> Base Sanji has better durability for sure


The guy who broke his leg against CoAless Vergo?

Sure thing buddy

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LordVinsmoke (May 13, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> The guy who broke his leg against CoAless Vergo?
> 
> Sure thing buddy


 Zoro Has Human Level Durablity Until Proven Otherwise Sanji in Base Showed City Block to Multi City Block Level Durability

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Strobacaxi (May 13, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> Zoro Has Human Level Durablity Until Proven Otherwise Sanji in Base Showed City Block to Multi City Block Level Durability




Let me know when Sanji tanks an attack from a Yonko k?
Sanji in base had a broken bone from a CoA less attack from Vergo. He has no multi city block durability whatever that's supposed to mean

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## LordVinsmoke (May 13, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Let me know when Sanji tanks an attack from a Yonko k?
> Sanji in base had a broken bone from a CoA less attack from Vergo. He has no multi city block durability whatever that's supposed to mean


10,000 meters underwater and not showing any blood or damage is multi city block durability and that was Fishman island arc
Unlike Sanji zoro is bleeding alot


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## Karma (May 13, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> 10,000 meters underwater and not showing any blood or damage is *multi city block durabilit*y and that was Fishman island arc
> Unlike Sanji zoro is bleeding alot


Lmao wtf

Yonko have island level feats, and old beard has like country/continent level ones. MCB is literaly East Blue/early Albasta type stuff

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## LordVinsmoke (May 13, 2021)

Karma said:


> Lmao wtf
> 
> Yonko have island level feats, and old beard has like country/continent level ones. MCB is literaly East Blue/early Albasta type stuff


I Wasnt Comparing Sanji to a yonko Durability is where you are not damaged example Zoro bleeding is a endurance feat


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## Karma (May 13, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> I Wasnt Comparing Sanji to a yonko Durability is where you are not damaged example Zoro bleeding is a endurance feat


Yes, and Zoro has been tanking those same island level attaks. Kaido is passively lifting all of Onigashima, just how much stronger do think his actual attacks are?

If you have Island lvel durability, no lesser amount of damage out put can logically hurt you. Low showing r almost always disregared or else youd be left with stuff like bullet level WB.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LordVinsmoke (May 13, 2021)

Karma said:


> Yes, and Zoro has been tanking those same island level attaks. Kaido is passively lifting all of Onigashima, just how much stronger do think his actual attacks are?
> 
> If you have Island lvel durability, no lesser amount of damage out put can logically hurt you. Low showing r almost always disregared or else youd be left with stuff like bullet level WB.


 Endurance Feat He Took Damage Durability Is Taking Damage WB is a good example of this

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## Strobacaxi (May 13, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> Endurance Feat He Took Damage Durability Is Taking Damage WB is a good example of this


He took 0 damage from BM's attack wtf are you talking about

He already had those bruises/dirt on him before Indra



0 damage from a Yonko attack >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every durability feat Sanji has ever had, including with RS



GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> 10,000 meters underwater and not showing any blood or damage is multi city block durability and that was Fishman island arc


Wtf are you on lol underwater Luffy could take that pressure without damage too lol
Mind you that underwater Luffy is actually human durability.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LordVinsmoke (May 13, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> He took 0 damage from BM's attack wtf are you talking about
> 
> He already had those bruises/dirt on him before Indra
> 
> ...


Luffy Human Level Durability   show panels of luffy having human-level durability

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (May 13, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> Luffy Human Level Durability   show panels of luffy having human-level durability


?? That's what the sea does lol. Or do you think those 2 fodders who were about to kill Ace could kill him?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LordVinsmoke (May 13, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> ?? That's what the sea does lol. Or do you think those 2 fodders who were about to kill Ace could kill him?


The Sea Part


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## Baroxio (May 14, 2021)

Luffy is explicitly still rubber even in the sea. He looses the energy to swim or do anything, but his body is still naturally stretchy.


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## LadyVados (May 14, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> Even Durability And Speed?
> Also Care To Explain How





GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> Zoro Has Human Level Durablity Until Proven Otherwise Sanji in Base Showed City Block to Multi City Block Level Durability


Hakai



GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> No Swordstyle Zoro Vs Sanji


Would be a stomp in Zoro's favour

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## LordVinsmoke (May 14, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> Hakai





LadyVados said:


> Would be a stomp in Zoro's favour


You gave me 4 tier specialist ratings and you couldn't even prove a point Hakai Is An Endurance Feat lmao it only shows the durability of his swords since he used them to block it Durability Means Taking *No Damage |Zoro Had 20-30 Broken Bones And Blood all over him| Endurance Feats*


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## LadyVados (May 14, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> You gave me 4 tier specialist ratings and you couldn't even prove a point Hakai Is An Endurance Feat lmao it only shows the durability of his swords since he used them to block it Durability Means Taking *No Damage |Zoro Had 20-30 Broken Bones And Blood all over him| Endurance Feats*


If you don't include Zoro's swords durability then don't include the RS's durability.

Also you're talking as if Sanji has some great feat of durability when his leg was broken by a hakiless vergo of all people. Crocodile had a multi-city block level feat back in Alabasta lmao


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## LordVinsmoke (May 14, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> If you don't include Zoro's swords durability then don't include the RS's durability.
> 
> Also you're talking as if Sanji has some great feat of durability when his leg was broken by a hakiless vergo of all people. Crocodile had a multi-city block level feat back in Alabasta lmao


Sanji Suit and Zoro Swords  Are Different even if you dont want me to include it  Sanji Still Has Better Durability  Crocodile had a multi-city block level feat back in Alabasta lmao he was injured lol Endurance Feat Again


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## Venom (May 14, 2021)

GrandMasterVinsmoke said:


> Sanji Suit and Zoro Swords  Are Different even if you dont want me to include it  Sanji Still Has Better Durability  Crocodile had a multi-city block level feat back in Alabasta lmao he was injured lol Endurance Feat Again


They are different but serve the same purpose in that context. Zoro's swords improve his durability so much that his body isn't immediately vaporized by Hakai.

Sanji got his leg broken by Vergo. Zoro didn't take any substantial damage from Pica.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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