# Portgas D. Ace, Sir Crocodile, Aokiji and Smoker vs Avatarverse.



## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

The four nations join together to defeat their powerful foes. Who wins?


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## Orion (Dec 30, 2006)

cant avatar aang just bend every element the logias are?


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> cant avatar aang just bend every element the logias are?



Aang can't firebend.


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## ~Avant~ (Dec 30, 2006)

avatar aang can


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

The fight just comes down to "Can they bend Team Logia" which I believe they cant.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Suzumebachi said:


> The fight just comes down to "Can they bend Team Logia" which I believe they cant.



You are wrong. Ace is flame. Firebenders can bend flames. So Ace can be bended

Same for the rest.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Suzumebachi said:


> The fight just comes down to "Can they bend Team Logia" which I believe they cant.



You are wrong. Ace is flame. Firebenders can bend flames. So Ace can be bended

Same for the rest.


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> You are wrong. Ace is flame. Firebenders can bend flames. So Ace can be bended
> 
> Same for the rest.



Can they bend living flame?

Can they kill Ace if he doesnt use his powers? Probably not. Very unlikely.


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

> Aang can't firebend.


Aang can fire bend he chooses not to out of shame. You probably know this anyway. Or are you saying he is not allowed to fire bend.

These guys would get their asses handed to them this battle. Fire benders would bend Ace, water benders would literally destroy crocface if their is a water source present. Water benders could possibly beat Ace too. Anng would probably beat on Smoker too if not the firebenders.



> Can they bend living flame?
> 
> Can they kill Ace if he doesnt use his powers? Probably not. Very unlikely.



If ace didn't use his powers they would crush him, with probably a bolder or something.

When the guys go into their gas state the avatar cast can bend them into a somewhat prison and keep them locked their, it would be funny to bend them in a glass bottle, if they switch out their form to prevent this they would get smacked down.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Yup.. This comes down to whether the Logia can be bent or not. I would also lean towards not due to the fact that benders are limited to the amount that they can bend, and the logia users are not limited to the amount of an element they can produce.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

gunners said:


> *Aang can fire bend he chooses not to out of shame. You probably know this anyway. Or are you saying he is not allowed to fire bend.*
> 
> These guys would get their asses handed to them this battle. Fire benders would bend Ace, water benders would literally destroy crocface if their is a water source present. Water benders could possibly beat Ace too. Anng would probably beat on Smoker too if not the firebenders.
> 
> ...



1. He is ashamed of burning Katara

2. He has no Firebending skill anyway


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

> 1. He is ashamed of burning Katara
> 
> 2. He has no Firebending skill anyway



But if he chooses to he can, and his skills aren't actually that bad he was controlling it to a reasonable degree he just stopped down to shame. Whether he can firebend isn't important anyway there are plenty of other fire benders, like Iroh, Ozai, Azulu, Zuko, and I forgot that other guys name. 

In all honesty I think the OP characters will loose in a curbstomp. The more Ice iceboy creates the more powerful water benders will become. The more flames Ace creates more flame for the fire benders, I think they are able to manipulate flames as Zuko when training lost his concentration and blew up the candle.

Crocodile I don't see as a threat he would be dismissed by water benders. I think Aang would beat around Smoker.


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## Blizzard chain (Dec 30, 2006)

He let go of his shame at the end of the earth book arc and could go into the avatar state at will. But I thought ace's fire was just high degree heat.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Blizzard chain said:


> He let go of his shame at the end of the earth book arc and could go into the avatar state at will. But I thought ace's fire was just high degree heat.



You're right. But Aang still isn't skilled in Firebending


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

> You're right. But Aang still isn't skilled in Firebending



He is able though he could control it in the direction he wanted it to go, he just got carried away. To be honest it doesn't really matter he can just stick to what he is best at air bending. There are plenty of fire benders.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Aang is weak in firebending. It doesn't matter. There is still the fire nation.


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

To me a fair fight would have been just using.

Azulu, Zuko, Aang, Toph, and Katara.

Those characters are on level terms in my opinion, adding an army of each element minus air, to me it gives the OP characters a savage beat down.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

gunners said:


> To me a fair fight would have been just using.
> 
> Azulu, Zuko, Aang, Toph, and Katara.
> 
> Those characters are on level terms in my opinion, adding an army of each element minus air, to me it gives the OP characters a savage beat down.



The thread wouldn't have been answered unless I stroked the OPfans ego.


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

> The thread wouldn't have been answered unless I stroked the OPfans ego.



Fair enough, to me I think OP characters are held at a level where they shouldn't be held at. And in reality I think the avatar characters are a horrible match up for these characters, not even so much that avatar characters are pretty powerful in their own right.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

gunners said:


> To me a fair fight would have been just using.
> 
> Azulu, Zuko, Aang, Toph, and Katara.
> 
> Those characters are on level terms in my opinion, adding an army of each element minus air, to me it gives the OP characters a savage beat down.



Funniest thing I've heard all day.


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## Pipboy (Dec 30, 2006)

When have benders ever shown the abilty to seize control of an already controlled element?  Whenever two benders of the same type do battle they only reverse attacks once they enter into their sphere of control and have left thier opponenets.

Proof of this can be found in the battle of ZUko vs. Zhao, Katara vs. Paaku, Zuko vs. Azula and Toph vs. Earth Rumble and Toph vs. Xin Fu.  In every case the attacking bender exerts his influence over the element.  The attack is launched and then there is a degree of control exerted on the attack once its attack has been abandoned to completetion.  Zhao only dissipates Zuko's fire in their agni kai once it impacts on him.  Paaku only redirects Kataras water stream once it touches his outer ring.   Toph only Catches the rock and throws it back/destroys the dai li glove when its close.

The logias are living incarnations of thier elementts with unlimited supply of their element.   Furthermore with a little changeup there is nothing that the nations can tdo to win.

Aokiji goes after water tribe.  He can kill everyone in their capital city in an instant.   Its all Ice and water, a single Ice age would freeze them all solid, and they can't live through that as they are fleshy.

Smoker can't be harmed or bent by fire and can physically beat them all to death.  

Ace can stomp on the earth kingdoms like a giant sandcastle impervious to their assualt and capable of blowing through their defenses like they are tissue paper.

And this is all without ANY risk of being bent.   

Crocodile is of course the weakest by far but his planning is vital and he can fare decently well as backup for any of the major players and if he so desires will  be a major asset if and when the avatar needs be dealt with.

In fact as long as the Logias concentrate themselves on the avatar victory goes from likely to assured.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Pipboy said:


> When have benders ever shown the abilty to seize control of an already controlled element?  Whenever two benders of the same type do battle they only reverse attacks once they enter into their sphere of control and have left thier opponenets.
> 
> Proof of this can be found in the battle of ZUko vs. Zhao, Katara vs. Paaku, Zuko vs. Azula and Toph vs. Earth Rumble and Toph vs. Xin Fu.  In every case the attacking bender exerts his influence over the element.  The attack is launched and then there is a degree of control exerted on the attack once its attack has been abandoned to completetion.  Zhao only dissipates Zuko's fire in their agni kai once it impacts on him.  Paaku only redirects Kataras water stream once it touches his outer ring.   Toph only Catches the rock and throws it back/destroys the dai li glove when its close.
> 
> ...



Riiiight. See what I mean about people setting OP character way higher than they should be?


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> Riiiight. See what I mean about people setting OP character way higher than they should be?



And which part of this is incorrect? Oh right, you don't have a counter so you resorted to the fanboy argument.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> And which part of this is incorrect? Oh right, you don't have a counter so you resorted to the fanboy argument.



I don't like saying stuff twice. So go read it


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

I agree with rild, people are saying things without thinking just to say ''One piece would win''.


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## Pipboy (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> Riiiight. See what I mean about people setting OP character way higher than they should be?



Nice one.   How many times can you deny objective reality before you are technically psychotic?    Instead of prissing like a snubbed diva why not actually point to something that I said that isn't objectively true?   Its not like Aokiji has a splash page showing him freezing an entire far as the eye can see expanse of ocean and all the creatures touching it solid in an instant.

PS Gunners, you seem to believe that Katara can beat Aokiji, you're obviously insane.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Pipboy said:


> Nice one.   How many times can you deny objective reality before you are technically psychotic?    Instead of prissing like a snubbed diva why not actually point to something that I said that isn't objectively true?   Its not like Aokiji has a splash page showing him freezing an entire far as the eye can see expanse of ocean and all the creatures touching it solid in an instant.
> 
> PS Gunners, you seem to believe that Katara can beat Aokiji, you're obviously insane.



None of that shit you said is true.


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## Pipboy (Dec 30, 2006)

Rild, about 2 months ago you claimed that fire benders could bend smoke.  I said BS you said let me look up the episode.   Its been 2 months.

At this point you are just making things up.   I honestly don't have a clue how ou think that you can beat me with what your slinging.   Its a mystery.

You should know by now that I will tear you a knew asshole if you try and dance around with me.   Then you'll have another nervous breakdown and will act the cock for a while, everyone will laugh at you and you will return to being a gigantic joke.

So in short.   Cut the BS, you can't afford it.


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## MdB (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> None of that shit you said is true.



Yes it is.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Pipboy said:


> Rild, about 2 months ago you claimed that fire benders could bend smoke.  I said BS you said let me look up the episode.   Its been 2 months.
> 
> At this point you are just making things up.   I honestly don't have a clue how ou think that you can beat me with what your slinging.   Its a mystery.
> 
> ...


I conceded on that one a while ago. You cut the BS. You are not the not the hot shot you think you are. 

I have the ability to admit defeat when I'm wrong, something you can never do.

You are wrong, and slinging mud won't make you right



MdB said:


> Yes it is.



I was talking about him saying benders can't wrestle elements away from other people


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## Hagen (Dec 30, 2006)

Logias FTW

Im saying this based on pure bias.

(I only watched Avatar a couple of times and it sucks IMO)


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## Pipboy (Dec 30, 2006)

Then show me..... SHOW ME ONE EXAMPLE OF A BENDER WRESTLING AN ELEMENT FROM A FOE.  All transfers of control occur once control has been reliquished, IE one foe is overextended.   The closest thing that you have is Toph pushing Aang, and thats his physical strength as he is not an earth bender at that moment.

A firebender could nullify aces fire gun shots as they hit him, or redirect them once they are in arms reach but before them.

A water bender could change Aokiji's ice attacks to water as they approached them but not before.

An no one can do shit to smoker, save the avatar and all he can do is blow on him.


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

> PS Gunners, you seem to believe that Katara can beat Aokiji, you're obviously insane.



You think Aokiji could solo the water tribe or the avatar verse? I think she could win because she could bend him.



> An no one can do shit to smoker, save the avatar and all he can do is blow on him.



Wasn't it said that Smoker was weak against fire. Ace said something when they met. Based on his words the fire nation would kick Smokers ass.

The fruit users have weaknesses to certain things. Aokiji I think his weakness would be fire if he goes in his ice form and fire benders heat him up he should actually die.


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## Pipboy (Dec 30, 2006)

Aokiji could have stopped the entire fire invasion fleet in 1 second exactly.   As long as you are touching water that is in some way connected to him he can freeze you solid.   I would have thought that that was self evident.    Katara at her best can bend barely a few metric tons of water, and can do it only in relatively close personal proximity.

Aokiji can EXTRACT, CONTROL and BECOME his element.  Katara has far less power over her element, only being able to control it, lacking both the abilty to produce and become it.   How you believe that this equates to her victory is what makes you crazy.

Smoke and fire don't do anything to one another.  They are stalemated in their conflict.  Futhermore, smoker has impressive physical power and martial skills AND he can choke or grab with his smoke.   He is easily one of the most lethal players as only wind seems to have an effect on him and his nature is toxic and ephemeral.  

Finally the scale difference is just so massive that I can't even begin to enumerate it.   Logias are threats to entire counties alone.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Pipboy said:


> Then show me..... SHOW ME ONE EXAMPLE OF A BENDER WRESTLING AN ELEMENT FROM A FOE.  All transfers of control occur once control has been reliquished, IE one foe is overextended.   The closest thing that you have is Toph pushing Aang, and thats his physical strength as he is not an earth bender at that moment.
> 
> A firebender could nullify aces fire gun shots as they hit him, or redirect them once they are in arms reach but before them.
> 
> ...



Pakku closed Kakata in with his ring of water that he was controlling at the time and she sent it off in a different direction
[02:18] Narutimate Hero 3 - Gaara VS Neji

Victory is mine!!!


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> None of that shit you said is true.





> I conceded on that one a while ago. You cut the BS. You are not the not the hot shot you think you are.





> I was talking about him saying benders can't wrestle elements away from other people



Funny how it turns out. So... out of everything in his post that was all not true, it turns out you only have objection to one point. And you don't even have a good argument against it. Nice one Rild.

@Gunners
Please don't post if you don't know what you are talking about. Aokiji could destroy the entire water tribe in one move: Ice Age. There is proof of this, and MDB has posted it. He could do it from  a very safe distance too.


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## Pipboy (Dec 30, 2006)

pipboy said:
			
		

> Proof of this can be found in the battle of ZUko vs. Zhao, Katara vs. Paaku, Zuko vs. Azula and Toph vs. Earth Rumble and Toph vs. Xin Fu. In every case the attacking bender exerts his influence over the element. The attack is launched and then there is a degree of control exerted on the attack once its attack has been abandoned to completetion. Zhao only dissipates Zuko's fire in their agni kai once it impacts on him. *Paaku only redirects Kataras water stream once it touches his outer ring.* Toph only Catches the rock and throws it back/destroys the dai li glove when its close.





			
				pipboy said:
			
		

> Then show me..... SHOW ME ONE EXAMPLE OF A BENDER WRESTLING AN ELEMENT FROM A FOE. *All transfers of control occur once control has been reliquished, IE one foe is overextended.* The closest thing that you have is Toph pushing Aang, and thats his physical strength as he is not an earth bender at that moment.





Illuminati Rild said:


> Pakku closed Kakata in with his ring of water that he was controlling at the time and she sent it off in a different direction
> [02:18] Narutimate Hero 3 - Gaara VS Neji
> 
> Victory is mine!!!



You try.... and then you fail.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> Funny how it turns out. So... out of everything in his post that was all not true, it turns out you only have objection to one point. And you don't even have a good argument against it. Nice one Rild.
> 
> @Gunners
> Please don't post if you don't know what you are talking about. Aokiji could destroy the entire water tribe in one move: Ice Age. There is proof of this, and MDB has posted it. He could do it from  a very safe distance too.



The only good argument you want to hear is one piece wins. So STFU



Pipboy said:


> You try.... and then you fail.



There is proof and your fanboy blood boils. Hah


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## Slips (Dec 30, 2006)

gunners said:


> Wasn't it said that Smoker was weak against fire.




No **


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

It can't be helped if the other side won't cooperate in a debate.


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## Pipboy (Dec 30, 2006)

Perhaps then you should actually make an arguement instead of whining and acting the bitch.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

I agree. Since when have you been debating?


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> It can't be helped if the other side won't cooperate in a debate.



What debate? This thread is nothing but Rild going "i'm right right right right ur wrong ur all fanbois n im not" and people arguing with him thinking he's anything more than a retarded troll.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Whenever the outcome is something other that One Piece wins, you all raise hell and fling insults


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> Whenever the outcome is something other that One Piece wins, you all raise hell and fling insults



The outcome would be something other than One Piece if you infact convinced us of it. You have made absolutely no argument in favor of Avatar. All you did was insult and fail at flame. 

What raises insults is that you are a retard looking for insults. 

I'd call you a troll, but you are dead serious with every idiotic statement you type. Thats just sad.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Depends on the thread. Unfortunately most threads where One Piece loses it is by a ridiculous amount because the OP hates One Piece, much like yourself. For example, Vegeta vs. Luffy, etc. The rest of the threads are at least debatable, and I frequently post on those. I tend to avoid the stupid threads. A very small number of people actually post threads where the enemy has a chance of winning. One example in recent memory would be Ubougin and Feitan vs. the Strawhats.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

I still remember the ya'll tried to say Lucci had class 100 strength. 

When other fanbases grow a spine, this strong-arming OP-tards are doing will cease. 

Nothing you lot say can be trusted when it comes to One Piece


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## Slips (Dec 30, 2006)

I think Rild is a little too new on the forums 

One Piece has had a mountain of threads where they have lost over the years here

Its just over the last 4 months we have had an influx of new Naruto fans that keep making the Naruto/One Piece threads to which the answer is a easy win via the One Piece crew

People need to start and broden there horizens and read more shit so we can have a lot more variety to the OB


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> I still remember the ya'll tried to say Lucci had class 100 strength.
> 
> When other fanbases grow a spine, this strong-arming OP-tards are doing will cease.
> 
> Nothing you lot say can be trusted when it comes to One Piece



this guy

Your response to that, to say that Luffy was not actually lifting 715 tons of gold, was that he was struggling with it.

Rild, you are a piece of work.

You want people to take you seriously, do your own calculations.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Hisoka said:


> I think Rild is a little too new on the forums
> 
> One Piece has had a mountain of threads where they have lost over the years here
> 
> ...



Uh whatever. I proven them wrong with that video and they ignored like OPtard always do.


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## Slips (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> Uh whatever. I proven them wrong with that video and they ignored like OPtard always do.



Even if they have ignored it. You are doing the same thing there have been countless points brought up in this thread that you havent gone near :S

Your starting to act like Jplaya tbh

We all get the whole 

Rild hates One Piece bye now. Franky its getting boring and your looking more and more desperate bye the day


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

> @Gunners
> Please don't post if you don't know what you are talking about. Aokiji could destroy the entire water tribe in one move: Ice Age. There is proof of this, and MDB has posted it. He could do it from a very safe distance too.



Perhaps you should take your own advide. Do you think the water tribe would stand still as they are attacked, the whole lot of them would for a sheild defending themselves from attack.

And quit bashing rild, this is a situation where he actually has a point. He his reasons which are pretty valid. And he has a point, in my eyes people will say One piece wins in the stupidist of scenarios.

This thread proves it, you have a universe of benders that can bend each of the elements too their will and you think the OP characters would take them out with ease. Not even ''I think they would win'' you think it would be done in moments.


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

gunners said:


> Perhaps you should take your own advide. Do you think the water tribe would stand still as they are attacked, the whole lot of them would for a sheild defending themselves from attack.



What makes you think they can defend themselves from Ice Age?

He cant be hurt by them and all it takes is for Aokiji to put his hand on the ground to kill them all.


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

> What makes you think they can defend themselves from Ice Age?
> 
> He cant be hurt by them and all it takes is for Aokiji to put his hand on the ground to kill them all.



And all it takes is for them to create a sheild and protect themselves. We know elements plays a part in beating these fruit users, um or an advantage in some cases. I think Fire users would beat on Aoikji in his gas form they would simply heat him up, if he goes in his human form he will get beat down by anyone that launches an offensive attack against him.

Killing the characters isn't as simple as placing his hands on the ground and making then die. For one we don't even know if he would freeze them. when he froze up last time he used water so wouldn't the characters have to be stood in the sea?


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## Orion (Dec 30, 2006)

hes frozen people.......


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

> And all it takes is for them to create a sheild and protect themselves.



From being frozen? What if he freezes the shields too? 

Look gunners, if its on the ground, its going to get hit by Aokiji's attack.


> when he froze up last time he used water so wouldn't the characters have to be stood in the sea?



Are you saying that Aokiji can only freeze water? God damnit gunners. 



Kill yourself right now.


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

> hes frozen people.......



Yeah didn't he to touch them to do so?


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

gunners said:


> Yeah didn't he to touch them to do so?



Even Rild knows he doesnt need to touch them.


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

> From being frozen? What if he freezes the shields too?
> 
> Look gunners, if its on the ground, its going to get hit by Aokiji's attack.



Um yeah freezing the sheild is the point, or did you mean freeze through the sheild?



> Are you saying that Aokiji can only freeze water? God damnit gunners.
> 
> link
> 
> Kill yourself right now.


Calm down sparkie. I didn't say he could only freeze water. I said when he did that huge feat back there, water was present. I am saying that he can't ice up the ground and freeze everyone in a moment. Don't tell me to go and kill my self you are getting agressive over nothing.


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

> Even Rild knows he doesnt need to touch them.


Good for Rild, when he isn't making contact with people it would generally take longer to freeze them and they would likely move out of the way making things a little bit more difficult. Also with bending skills like I said they can evade his attacks.


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

> Um yeah freezing the sheild is the point, or did you mean freeze through the sheild?



Freeze everything touching the ground....like how he didnt just freeze the water, he froze things in and on the water like the Seaking.


> I am saying that he can't ice up the ground and freeze everyone in a moment.



But..he can. 

What makes you think he cant freeze the ground?

Please stop saying dumb things....


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

> Also with bending skills like I said they can evade his attacks.



You like to say it. It doesnt make it right. 

How will they stop the freezing? Did you see how quickly he froze the sea? Did you see the range?


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Hisoka said:


> Even if they have ignored it. You are doing the same thing there have been countless points brought up in this thread that you havent gone near :S
> 
> Your starting to act like Jplaya tbh
> 
> ...



Hmm. I will say this. Whatever I put up, they will ignore because it hurts their case greatly. 

It's also nice to see which side you've chosen.

 I like One Piece. I just hate assholes like you

Cheers Bitch!!


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

> Freeze everything touching the ground....like how he didnt just freeze the water, he froze things in and on the water like the Seaking.



Because those things had much water surronding them it was inside the water.



> But..he can.
> 
> What makes you think he cant freeze the ground?
> 
> Please stop saying dumb things....


Because water and earth are diffrent things, Aokiji ices things up, it is well much harded to turn something that doesn't contain water into ice. So me saying him icing up the ground is diffrent to icing water is 100% valid.



> How will they stop the freezing? Did you see how quickly he froze the sea? Did you see the range?



Since their is an amry of water/ice benders the moment he freezes the water they will undo the work and use it to attack other opisition. How will they stop the freezing, the fire benders firing fire attacks to block the spread, the earth benders raising the earth to a certain height, aang pushing back the mist or what ever he is using to spread the ice which he should be able to do he stopped the flow of a volcano with his win.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> I still remember the ya'll tried to say Lucci had class 100 strength.
> 
> When other fanbases grow a spine, this strong-arming OP-tards are doing will cease.
> 
> Nothing you lot say can be trusted when it comes to One Piece



Um... He *does* have class 100 strength. And my calculations easily show that. But this is beside the point. 

The problem is that you have a deep hatred of One Piece and anyone who supports them, fanboy or not. The One Piece threads that you make can be separated into three categories:

1) Blank vs. One Piece that is meant to incite the fanbase because it is an idiotic thread. Example: Angry D. Monkey vs. Monkey D. Luffy.

2) Blank vs. One Piece that you are sure will destroy the One Piece characters, and in fact does. Example: Zero vs. Luffy

3) Blank vs. One Piece that you are sure will destroy the One Piece characters, but in fact, doesn't. Example: this thread.

The problem is that all your One Piece threads are based on your inherent hatred of One Piece and your desire to destroy the characters or somehow annoy the fans. This thread was created with the desire to prove One Piece fans wrong, but you failed because you were blinded by your own Avatar fanboyism.

@ Gunners
How will they defend against it? With water that will also be frozen? There is no escape from Ice Age. And yes. Aokiji will literally kill the entire water tribe in a matter of seconds. The rest of the world will obviously take some time since they are not as vulnerable.


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## Orion (Dec 30, 2006)

aokiji has froze people,and made a saber out of ice with just some pieces of grass.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> Um... He *does* have class 100 strength. And my calculations easily show that. But this is beside the point.
> 
> The problem is that you have a deep hatred of One Piece and anyone who supports them, fanboy or not. The One Piece threads that you make can be separated into three categories:
> 
> ...



Benders bend the elements. Three of the Logias *are* elements. Nuff said


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

> The problem is that all your One Piece threads are based on your inherent hatred of One Piece and your desire to destroy the characters or somehow annoy the fans. This thread was created with the desire to prove One Piece fans wrong, but you failed because you were blinded by your own Avatar fanboyism.



In honesty I don't think you have the right to call someone an avatar fan, you are the one saying 6 people can 1000s of skilled fighters.



> @ Gunners
> How will they defend against it? With water that will also be frozen? There is no escape from Ice Age. And yes. Aokiji will literally kill the entire water tribe in a matter of seconds. The rest of the world will obviously take some time since they are not as vulnerable.



We this in mind how will Luffy ever beat Aokiji? You are overrating him to a godly level right now.


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

> Because those things had much water surronding them it was inside the water.



Dude. Aokiji can freeze things by breathing on them.



> Because water and earth are diffrent things, Aokiji ices things up, it is well much harded to turn something that doesn't contain water into ice. So me saying him icing up the ground is diffrent to icing water is 100% valid.



Not really. Being a logia, he has an infinite source of ice. He can freeze whatever he wants with about the same effort.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

gunners said:


> In honesty I don't think you have the right to call someone an avatar fan, you are the one saying 6 people can 1000s of skilled fighters.
> 
> 
> 
> We this in mind how will Luffy ever beat Aokiji? You are overrating him to a godly level right now.


Don't defend me. You will regret it.


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## Orion (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> Benders bend the elements. Three of the Logias *are* elements. Nuff said



and the logias can also use the elements people are trying to bend against the benders,not to mention that they apparently arent helpless in human form either,aokiji showed some hand to hand skills,and ace used to beat luffy  when he has his rubber fruit long before ace ever got his fire logia fruit.crocodile also took hits from luffy and fought him in h2h.


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## Slips (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> Hmm. I will say this. Whatever I put up, they will ignore because it hurts their case greatly.
> 
> It's also nice to see which side you've chosen.
> 
> ...



I havent taken any side 

Hell One Piece doesnt even rank in my top 10 list :S

I dont mind you hating me theres plenty of hate for spamasukians on the forums anyway 

oh and *negs* because I'm a bitch.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> and the logias can also use the elements people are trying to bend against the benders,not to mention that they apparently arent helpless in human form either,aokiji showed some hand to hand skills,and ace used to beat luffy  when he has his rubber fruit long before ace ever got his fire logia fruit.crocodile also took hits from luffy and fought him in h2h.



I never doubted the H2h skill. Just saying that the whole"Benders can't bend Logias" argument is bullshit.


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

> We this in mind how will Luffy ever beat Aokiji? You are overrating him to a godly level right now.



Maybe he wont. Aokiji owned his ass so bad when they fought. Jeez gunners. 

Do I need to link you to the fight? Luffy didnt even have a chance.




> In honesty I don't think you have the right to call someone an avatar fan, you are the one saying 6 people can 1000s of skilled fighters.



What the hell? Rob Lucci, not even a logia class, killed 500 fighters by himself, likely before he even ate his devil fruit, at age 13. 

Rob Lucci could kill the Water Tribe by himself, and he's not even on the level of a Vice Admiral. Aokiji killed a Vice Admiral with little effort.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

gunners said:


> Because those things had much water surronding them it was inside the water.
> 
> 
> Because water and earth are diffrent things, Aokiji ices things up, it is well much harded to turn something that doesn't contain water into ice. So me saying him icing up the ground is diffrent to icing water is 100% valid.
> ...



It doesn't even matter. If you had watched Avatar you would have known that the entire northern city is made out of *ice*. All Aokiji has to do is bicyle within a few miles of the city and instantly freeze the entire city. They won't even know he is there until they realize they just died.

@Rild 
Again, this point has been dealt with. Benders have a limit to the amount they can bend. Logias have no limit. They are also in constant control of their bodies, and from what has been shown in Avatar, to even be able to have a chance control them the bender would have to be extremely close.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> It doesn't even matter. If you had watched Avatar you would have known that the entire northern city is made out of *ice*. All Aokiji has to do is bicyle within a few miles of the city and instantly freeze the entire city. They won't even know he is there until they realize they just died.
> 
> @Rild
> Again, this point has been dealt with. Benders have a limit to the amount they can bend. Logias have no limit. They are also in constant control of their bodies, and from what has been shown in Avatar, to even be able to have a chance control them the bender would have to be extremely close.



Wrong. I can prove that dead wrong if you would look. Plus More than One bender could try to bend a logia.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> Wrong. I can prove that dead wrong if you would look. Plus More than One bender could try to bend a logia.



Go for it. Point out some areas out that weren't covered in ice. It might actually help your argument.

And yeah, more then one bender could try, if they could get close enough. They would also fail.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> Go for it. Point out some areas out that weren't covered in ice. It might actually help your argument.
> 
> And yeah, more then one bender could try, if they could get close enough. They would also fail.



You forget Waterbenders can bend Ice? And a surprise attack to plop Aokiji in the water would work.

The spot where Aang meditated wasn't frozen over and was green with grass.


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

> You forget Waterbenders can bend Ice? And a surprise attack to plop Aokiji in the water would work.



Water that Aokiji can freeze? LOL

And that he can apparently teleport away from too?


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Suzumebachi said:


> Water that Aokiji can freeze? LOL



Not if the waterbenders take him under quickly, Then he dies.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Yeah, I'm sure they'll all just be hanging out in the sacred chamber of then moon and water gods. Aokiji is one guy. How will they even see him if he stays say, 5 miles away?


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> Yeah, I'm sure they'll all just be hanging out in the sacred chamber of then moon and water gods. Aokiji is one guy. How will they even see him if he stays say, 5 miles away?





> The four nations join together to defeat their powerful foes. Who wins?



They will be expecting a visit


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> Not if the waterbenders take him under quickly, Then he dies.



Thats a pretty big "if". Do you really think they can knock a nine foot man into the ocean without him noticing water and freezing it or just teleport away from it?


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

> They will be expecting a visit



A visit from a guy who sinks fleets with a single punch and his equally strong buddies.

does anyone know the background music and the screenpack/lifebar in this video


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Still just one guy, who may or may not be on a bicycle. He can strike at any time from an incredible distance in an instant.

And do you honestly think they would be able to put him in the water? He has faster reflexes than Luffy, probably by a good margin and he can freeze anything near him.


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

> Still just one guy, who may or may not be on a bicycle. He can strike at any time from an incredible distance in an instant.



Rild doesnt know Aokiji rides a bike. XD

That was so funny.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Suzumebachi said:


> Thats a pretty big "if". Do you really think they can knock a nine foot man into the ocean without him noticing water and freezing it or just teleport away from it?



You forget(Or never knew) that waterbenders can turn water to ice and back again instantly. I can provide videos or tell you the episodes if you possess them.

A group of waterbender ambushers lie in wait for Aokiji. Aokiji passes by and the waterbenders uses their collective might to turn the ice he's riding on to water and drag him under as soon as possible


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## Slips (Dec 30, 2006)

Rild your neg is going to make my sig 

The comment that your left is spot on it didnt do anything it may as well as been a null neg


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Wait, where are they going to lie in wait? And how exactly are a group of waterbenders put ice incarnate into the water? Thats not even counting the fact that he is incredibly faster than anyone in avatarverse.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> Wait, where are they going to lie in wait? And how exactly are a group of waterbenders put ice incarnate into the water? Thats not even counting the fact that he is incredibly faster than anyone in avatarverse.



That's the point. It's a damn ambush. Speed don't matter when you are caught off guard.

And since it the waterbender's home base, they can hide right outside the village under the water as soon as he's spotted. Or wherever is decent.



Hisoka said:


> Rild your neg is going to make my sig
> 
> The comment that your left is spot on it didnt do anything it may as well as been a null neg



You know I don't give a damn or I would have shut up a loooong time ago


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Sounds like a winning plan Rild. I'm sure it will work. They are going to be hiding under the artic water 10 miles off the coast in the hopes they can ambush Aokiji. And then in the incredibly slim chance he doesn't notice them lurking under the water, their best course of action is to try and dump him under the water in a fraction of a second, and then hope he will actually be affected and not just freeze the water he touches.

@Suze 
Yeah I had almost forgotten that Aokiji does still have 3 teamates who would be equally capable.


----------



## Slips (Dec 30, 2006)

This thread is fantastic its just a pity it will be trashed as soon as the first mod see's it


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> Sounds like a winning plan Rild. I'm sure it will work. They are going to be hiding under the artic water 10 miles off the coast in the hopes they can ambush Aokiji. And then in the incredibly slim chance he doesn't notice them lurking under the water, their best course of action is to try and dump him under the water in a fraction of a second, and then hope he will actually be affected and not just freeze the water he touches.
> 
> @Suze
> Yeah I had almost forgotten that Aokiji does still have 3 teamates who would be equally capable.



So he has spider-sense now? And I assume the other Logias would be attacking other parts of the world. Also, I still think a group of benders can bend a Logia. 


A larger number of benders + masters make this possible.

Smoker and Crocodile is the biggest problem.



Hisoka said:


> This thread is fantastic its just a pity it will be trashed as soon as the first mod see's it



I like that. Why don't you shut up.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

No, he just has perception that equals his speed. This is a standard anime rule. And you still haven't explained how they are going to hide 10 miles out in artic water.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> No, he just has perception that equals his speed. This is a standard anime rule. And you still haven't explained how they are going to hide 10 miles out in artic water.


Ok I know that humans can only survive less than 5 minutes in that temp unprotected.

But they are used to living to that temp. That can make an air bubble underwater like Katara did.

Also. It doesn't have to be 10 miles.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

This is getting really stupid Rild. They have to protect an entire coast out to 10 miles and then look under water for an undeterminable amount of time. And then they still won't be able to do shit because they are scrubs compared to him. Avatar is a good show but it is not a powerful universe. It just isn't a fair battle. Elemental logia's are nearly unstoppable. What can a bender do against someone who can freeze a portion of an ocean as far as the eye can see(and most likely much farther)? Just look at what you are arguing man.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> This is getting really stupid Rild. They have to protect an entire coast out to 10 miles and then look under water for an undeterminable amount of time. And then they still won't be able to do shit because they are scrubs compared to him. Avatar is a good show but it is not a powerful universe. It just isn't a fair battle. Elemental logia's are nearly unstoppable. What can a bender do against someone who can freeze a portion of an ocean as far as the eye can see(and most likely much farther)? Just look at what you are arguing man.



I could care less which universe is superior. This battle four of em, not a universe vs avatar's world.

Your argument is nothing more than OP is superior to avatar.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Haha. Yeah, just keep thinking that. I think my argument is more along the lines of Aokiji can freeze an ocean and nothing could stop him.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> Haha. Yeah, just keep thinking that. I think my argument is more along the lines of Aokiji can freeze an ocean and nothing could stop him.



I was kind enough to post a video. Now you do the same. Does Aokiji freezes large bodies of water on a regular basis?


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

> Does Aokiji freezes large bodies of water on a regular basis?



He's never had to, but with the very small amount of effort he exerted freezing the sea on Long Ring Island, there is nothing leading us to believe he couldnt do that all day. 

He didnt freeze the ocean in Ohara, because that would draw attention, but he did freeze a path to another country for Robin to take to escape the Buster Call.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Suzumebachi said:


> He's never had to, but with the very small amount of effort he exerted freezing the sea on Long Ring Island, there is nothing leading us to believe he couldnt do that all day.
> 
> He didnt freeze the ocean in Ohara, because that would draw attention, but he did freeze a path to another country for Robin to take to escape the Buster Call.



And what leads you to think that a bender can't turn his ice back to water(Which they can do instantly)? 

He can keep a section of ocean frozen for a indefinite time?


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

> He can keep a section of ocean frozen for a indefinite time?



If he touches the water, he can freeze as much as he wants.



> And what leads you to think that a bender can't turn his ice back to water(Which they can do instantly)?



Well, because Aokiji also has control over ice. Their control and mastery of it will have to exceed his, which they dont.


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## Gunners (Dec 30, 2006)

> If he touches the water, he can freeze as much as he wants.


Where was this stated?



> Well, because Aokiji also has control over ice. Their control and mastery of it will have to exceed his, which they dont.



You have proof of this, you know how many people there are in total for the water benders? Then their is avatar aang too.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> And what leads you to think that a bender can't turn his ice back to water(Which they can do instantly)?
> 
> He can keep a section of ocean frozen for a indefinite time?



Because benders can't unfreeze an area that large.

Look to 4:20:
does anyone know the background music and the screenpack/lifebar in this video

As Aokiji states, the ice would last a week. That means that the ice is at least 100 m deep as far as the eye can sea in all directions. 

@Gunners
It wasn't stated, but he can sure freeze a shitload of it. He has not shown any limit yet. And there aren't enough water benders to come even close.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> Because benders can't unfreeze an area that large.
> 
> Look to 4:20:
> does anyone know the background music and the screenpack/lifebar in this video
> ...



Ok, I'm impressed. You shoulda done this a while ago. Now show me him messing with something already frozen. Because if he can't, he can't harm the northern tribe


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Did you think we were making this shit up? I would have done it a while ago but I figured since you had already seen the manga scan it wouldn't have made a difference.

As for messing with something thats already frozen, there is no need because it is all water and he can use it as a freezing conductor just the same. As long as the water benders a touching "water" he can freeze them, as evidenced by the sea king.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> Did you think we were making this shit up? I would have done it a while ago but I figured since you had already seen the manga scan it wouldn't have made a difference.
> 
> As for messing with something thats already frozen, there is no need because it is all water and he can use it as a freezing conductor just the same. As long as the water benders a touching "water" he can freeze them, as evidenced by the sea king.



I'm leaning more to Aokiji now. The seaking was in the water. The waterbenders would be standing on a tall ice wall.  Progress is made when debates speak nicely to each other.

You seem to be the tamest of the lot, so I'll ask you a question, Rild Slayer.

If Aokiji was at the bottom of the Wall, 1 mile away from the Village. Would he be able to freeze all who live in the village?


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

I would say almost definately since everything is ice. What is unknown is his ground freezing capability.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> I would say almost definately since everything is ice. What is unknown is his ground freezing capability.



Aokiji wins then. 

Crocodile vs the sandbenders?

Ace vs The Fire Nation?

Smoker vs Avatar Aang?


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

> Crocodile vs the sandbenders?



Can sandbenders stop sandstorms?

Because we know they cant hurt Croc or survive his attacks. They are too powerful and fast.



> Ace vs The Fire Nation?



Ace could win without the use of his powers. 

Ace can wipe out a fleet of Fire Nation ships with a single punch. I've never seen any firebender do anything on his level.



> Smoker vs Avatar Aang?



Smoker. Avatar Aang still cant harm him.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Suzumebachi said:


> Can sandbenders stop sandstorms?
> 
> Because we know they cant hurt Croc or survive his attacks. They are too powerful and fast.
> 
> ...



Uhh. I'll wait for Limit_Tester to post.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Ace in action:
Link removed

I would say Ace would be better suited attacking the earth kingdom. Smoker versus fire nation. Crocodile versus avatar.

Smoker can nullify most any fire attack as is evidenced by his fight with Ace:

Smoker unrestricted would also be able to use his powers very effectively to kill people, which is usually against his morals and the whole marine thing. If they can't finish the job Aokiji could help out.


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

Link removed

4:00 - Crocodile making a sandstorm without favorable weather conditions.

Link removed

0:10 - Ace sinking a fleet with one punch.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> Ace in action:
> Link removed
> 
> I would say Ace would be better suited attacking the earth kingdom. Smoker versus fire nation. Crocodile versus avatar.
> ...



I admit defeat.......... To the Rild Killer. The rest of ya only did what ya do best....not a damn thing.


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> Uhh. I'll wait for Limit_Tester to post.



What exactly was wrong or inaccurate with my post?


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> I admit defeat.......... To the Rild Killer. The rest of ya only did what ya do best....not a damn thing.



I would say there are quite a few valid posts here...


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## TheGreenSamurai78 (Dec 30, 2006)

The Avatarverse's advantage in this fight isn't the fact that they so happen to control the same elements as the OP characters shown above. It's the fact that the Avatarverse has perfect control of the elements that the Logia's are vulnerable too. Lets face it, fighting for control over a Logia users own element is pointless and is a waste of time, because that Logia user has perfect control over his own element.

The following element weaknesses of the Logia's listed above are these,

*Logia User*​*Weakness*​*Is it Proven**?*​
*Sir Crocodile(Sand)*​ Water​Proven​
*Aokiji(Ice)*​ Fire​Likely​
*Smoker(Smoke)*​ Wind​ Likely​
*Ace(Fire)*​ Water or Earth​ Discussable​
My graph is a little crooked, but you get what I mean. Though as you see, the avatarverse as complete access to the given Logia's weaknesses, If the Avatarverse uses there numbers to over power the Logia's, then they will win. I just glad that Enel was added into this. If he was, then this wouldn't have been a fight at all.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

TheGreenSamurai78 said:


> The Avatarverse's advantage in this fight isn't the fact that they so happen to control the same elements as the OP characters shown above. It's the fact that the Avatarverse has perfect control of the elements that the Logia's are vulnerable too. Lets face it, fighting for control over a Logia users own element is pointless and is a waste of time, because that Logia user has perfect control over his own element.
> 
> The following element weaknesses of the Logia's listed above are these,
> 
> ...



I'm not that stupid. I wouldn't use Eneru in any battle. I would read One Piece. But I refuse to read a manga for the sole purpose of winning debates


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## TheGreenSamurai78 (Dec 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> I'm not that stupid. I wouldn't use Eneru in any battle.



The Avatarverse can win this fight Illuminati Rild. It?s just that you paired the fights the wrong way. If you put a Logia user against a bender, both of the same element type, then the Logia user wins. It is because the Logia user has perfect control over his element, and when I say this, I mean that the element that the logia is made of is not just that regular element. The Logias can expand, create, and shape their elements to any form by using their body. 

For example, Gaara from Naruto prefers to use the sand in his gourd because he has better control over the sand he trains with frequently. His control over this sand is so great, that when he mixes his sand with other elements in the ground, he has more sand to control. If this description was confusing, then I'm sorry. I just thought that giving an example instead of saying one basic statement would be better.

The Avatarverse wins this fight if they can focus on attacking the Logia's weaknesses.


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## Giovanni Rild (Dec 30, 2006)

TheGreenSamurai78 said:


> The Avatarverse can win this fight Illuminati Rild. It?s just that you paired the fights the wrong way. If you put a Logia user against a bender, both of the same element type, then the Logia user wins. It is because the Logia user has perfect control over his element, and when I say this, I mean that the element that the logia is made of is not just that regular element. The Logias can expand, create, and shape their elements to any form by using their body.
> 
> For example, Gaara from Naruto prefers to use the sand in his gourd because he has better control over the sand he trains with frequently. His control over this sand is so great, that when he mixes his sand with other elements in the ground, he has more sand to control. If this description was confusing, then I'm sorry. I just thought that giving an example instead of saying one basic statement would be better.
> 
> The Avatarverse wins this fight if they can focus on attacking the Logia's weaknesses.



That's not fair!! You come in here and kick ass after I conceded.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 30, 2006)

Not really green. The power difference is just too great. Ace would also be able to take out the water tribe, and Aokiji the fire nation. Plus, it would be up to the logia's to decide which to attack and how.


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## TheGreenSamurai78 (Dec 31, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> That's not fair!! You come in here and kick ass after I conceded.



Sorry, I was going to post sooner, but I decided to have dinner and then play some Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney. So after that I got back in the mood of posting. 



> Smoker. Avatar Aang still cant harm him.



It is very likely that Smokers weakness is wind. When Dragon, Luffy's father, appeared in front of Smoker and sent massive wind gusts throughout the city, Smoker was thrown in the air helplessly. Since Aang is a powerful air bender, and wind is smokes natural enemy. I would say that Smoker is in for a tough ride.

This is how the fight goes in my opinion...

The water benders of the North Pole pin Crocodile on an island. Crocodile might be able to suck large amounts of water from the ground, but he has never shown and highly can't suck an ocean filled with water. From there the water benders hit Crocodile with a non-stop assault of water attacks in every direction, thus preventing him from doing any powerful sand attacks. Once Crocodile can't attack at all, the water benders freeze Crocodile, and send the chuck of ice with Crocodile inside into the sea.

The fire benders fight Aokiji on land and stay as far away from the sea as possible. Once the fire benders surround Aokiji, they should land enough blows on him to take him out.

The earth benders should attack Ace, though they shouldn't attack him immediately. The Earth benders should stay defensive, and wait until the water benders come back from finishing Crocodile. Once the water benders and earth benders team up, Ace's Attack would be blocked by the Earth benders and countered back from the water benders.

As for Smoker, Aang should be strong enough to take him on. I even made a thread of this fight, and I believe Aang won in the end do to his Avatar state.

Fighting ?Fire with Fire? isn't a very good term when fighting One Piece characters you can say.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Dec 31, 2006)

TheGreenSamurai78 said:


> Sorry, I was going to post sooner, but I decided to have dinner and then play some Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney. So after that I got back in the mood of posting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I learned a coupled of things.

1. You are a wayyyyy better debater than me.

2. For some unknown reason. I magically lose 100 IQ points when I enter a OP debate.


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 31, 2006)

> It is very likely that Smokers weakness is wind.



But you cant prove it. 



> The water benders of the North Pole pin Crocodile on an island. Crocodile might be able to suck large amounts of water from the ground, but he has never shown and highly can't suck an ocean filled with water. From there the water benders hit Crocodile with a non-stop assault of water attacks in every direction, thus preventing him from doing any powerful sand attacks. Once Crocodile can't attack at all, the water benders freeze Crocodile, and send the chuck of ice with Crocodile inside into the sea.



Well there you've just put Crocodile in a position favoring the Water Tribe. 

If Croc attacked the Water Tribe with a frontal attack on their base, you know he'd win. Even if they set up an offensive. Croc can just spam sandstorms on the infintry. He'd tear their base to shreds with Desert Spada.
Even if they manage to get Crocodile wet, he still has his sand powers and can still launch sand attacks. The way for them to kill him is to drown him, because we know that Croc is a glutton for punishment. Smacking him with water will just piss him off unless they fire canons at him or something. They need to drown him. Freezing him may or may not work. I'm not sure. He may just absorb the ice he's incased in.



> The fire benders fight Aokiji on land and stay as far away from the sea as possible. Once the fire benders surround Aokiji, they should land enough blows on him to take him out.



You're going off a hunch that fire is truly Aokiji's weakness. 

If they surround him, Aokiji will just freeze the area around him. Well, thats what I'd do if I were him.



> The earth benders should attack Ace, though they shouldn't attack him immediately. The Earth benders should stay defensive, and wait until the water benders come back from finishing Crocodile. Once the water benders and earth benders team up, Ace's Attack would be blocked by the Earth benders and countered back from the water benders.



But without the Water Tribe's back up, Ace walks all over the Earth Kingdom.

Earth bending wont hurt him. Even while not in Logia form, Ace got knocked through several stone walls and it just pissed him off.



> As for Smoker, Aang should be strong enough to take him on. I even made a thread of this fight, and I believe Aang won in the end do to his Avatar state.



It be a good fight, but I see Smoker eventually getting a hit on Aang with his baton thats harder than diamond and cracks his skull open.



Illuminati Rild said:


> 2. For some unknown reason. I magically lose 100 IQ points when I enter a OP debate.[/FONT][/COLOR]



Human beings cant have negative IQ points. Unless they're dead.


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## Darklyre (Dec 31, 2006)

Actually, didn't Smoker say something in Loguetown about not being able to use his DF because of Dragon's storm?


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 31, 2006)

Honestly in the grand scheme of things croc and smoker don't matter. They aren't the best people for genocide. They don't have the vast amount of destructive power that Aokiji and Ace have. You have paired the logia to situations would _could_ be unfavorable to them, but in all likelihood won't have a serious impact. Wherever Ace and Aokiji go they will rain death and destruction upon those who come to oppose them. Aokiji against water means Ice AGe. Aokiji against fire benders is a similar result. Why? Because he has shown the capability to absorb a nuclear bomb's worth of energy in one second, with no seeming effect on him. Ace is probably not as advanced in his capabilities, but he can destroy cities in a matter of minutes just from what we have seen so far. And it is incredibly likely that he has held back because his powers are by nature deadly, and he is usually a nice guy.

But the fact of the matter is, most avatar benders are very bad at their job. Aang and crew have been shown to be vastly superior to any other benders with the exception of Bumi and of course their fire nation counterparts, Zuko and Azula. I mean the best the water nation had to offer was pakku, and well, he sucked. What did he do when the fire nation attack? Seriously. Do you know how much more firepower ace has than the entire fire nation fleet? Its freaking ridiculous.

If anyone were to die from team logia, obviously it would be croc. But who cares? As for smoker, in a fight against Aang, he would most likely be victorious due to his major speed advantage and the fact that even if aang uses wind attacks to dissipate smoker, if will not kill him. At some point smoker will get close enough to choke the life out of him, or force himself into aang's lungs. That is, if smoker even chooses to go full smoke form. I'm sure he would be more than capable enough to deal with aang in human form due to his speed, strength, and partial smoke powers.


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## TheGreenSamurai78 (Dec 31, 2006)

> 1. You are a wayyyyy better debater than me.




You should get Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney. Its what got me into to this typing mood right now.




Suzumebachi said:


> But you cant prove it.




In Loguetown, Dragon blasted Smoker away with that wind blast. Plus, I really don't see there being any other weakness for Smoker. If you are going to argue that Smoker can't be hurt at all do to the fact that Odo hasn't show his weakness in the manga, then Smoker shouldn't be discussed at all. Can we positively say how fast Luffy or Lucci move? Can we positively say how much Naruto can bench? We can at least make reasonable assumptions about certain character by using logical think. Sometimes we can't make logical assumptions because there isn't enough information given so he can't argue about those people at all until the fan receives more information. 




> Well there you've just put Crocodile in a position favoring the Water Tribe.
> 
> If Croc attacked the Water Tribe with a frontal attack on their base, you know he'd win.




If I was coaching the Logia team, the last place I would have Crocodile ever go in the Avatarverse is the North Pole, because there is too much water their can it puts Crocodile in a huge disadvantage.

North Pole Main Wall
Link removed

1. Crocodile can't enter the area. In front of the main gate is a huge body of water. How will Crocodile cross it?

2. The gate itself in extremely thick. Desert Sparda might cut through it, but the huge wall is made of ice, and of course ice is water. Wouldn't that effect the power of Desert Sparda?
Link removed

3. The city is basically completely made of water. The buildings are made of ice. Snow is on the ground. Every corner of the city has a river, stream or a fountain. The whole area is laterally one big hazard for Crocodile. 
Link removed




> Even if they set up an offensive. Croc can just spam sandstorms on the infintry. He'd tear their base to shreds with Desert Spada.
> Even if they manage to get Crocodile wet, he still has his sand powers and can still launch sand attacks.




The area still prevents Crocodile from doing his most destructive moves like Desert Girasole and Mass Erosion. He can still use attacks like Barchan and Sparda, but wouldn't attacking the area also get him wet?




> The way for them to kill him is to drown him, because we know that Croc is a glutton for punishment.




Yes, as well as many other people in One Piece as well. 




> Smacking him with water will just piss him off unless they fire canons at him or something. They need to drown him. Freezing him may or may not work. I'm not sure. He may just absorb the ice he's incased in.




Crocodile can only absorb water with his right hand. Crocodile can defend himself using right hand from water attacks, but I doubt he can escape from being completely frozen in ice.




> You're going off a hunch that fire is truly Aokiji's weakness.




Refer to my "Smoker" comment.




> If they surround him, Aokiji will just freeze the area around him. Well, thats what I'd do if I were him.




The only way Aokiji can freeze the fire benders is if they are in water, or he is touching them in some type of fashion. That is why I request that the fire nation to keep Aokiji as far away from the ocean as possible.




> But without the Water Tribe's back up, Ace walks all over the Earth Kingdom.
> 
> 
> Earth bending wont hurt him. Even while not in Logia form, Ace got knocked through several stone walls and it just pissed him off.




True, without the Water Tribe the Earth Kingdom can't beat Ace, but they can hold Ace back if they stay defensive the whole time.




> It be a good fight, but I see Smoker eventually getting a hit on Aang with his baton thats harder than diamond and cracks his skull open.




He only seems to use that baton thing on devil fruit eaters, and he doesn?t seem to use it very often. Smoker?s first choice in attacking Aang would be either to charge at him and challenge him in close combat or to take him on in a range combat fight.


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 31, 2006)

> The only way Aokiji can freeze the fire benders is if they are in water, or he is touching them in some type of fashion. That is why I request that the fire nation to keep Aokiji as far away from the ocean as possible.



No...what gave you the idea that Aokiji needs to actually be touching someone to freeze them or they need to be in water?



> If I was coaching the Logia team, the last place I would have Crocodile ever go in the Avatarverse is the North Pole, because there is too much water their can it puts Crocodile in a huge disadvantage.
> 
> North Pole Main Wall
> Link removed
> ...



Forgot how the structure of the base was, but I remembered that it was made of ice. 

Croc can still launch sandstorms at them.


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## AssFace (Dec 31, 2006)

Aokiji seems to be the only one who'd be a major threat.


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 31, 2006)

^Why is that?


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## atom (Dec 31, 2006)

Couldn't Aang in the avatar state just WTFPWN all of them?


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 31, 2006)

TheGreenSamurai78 said:


> In Loguetown, Dragon blasted Smoker away with that wind blast. Plus, I really don't see there being any other weakness for Smoker. If you are going to argue that Smoker can't be hurt at all do to the fact that Odo hasn't show his weakness in the manga, then Smoker shouldn't be discussed at all. Can we positively say how fast Luffy or Lucci move? Can we positively say how much Naruto can bench? We can at least make reasonable assumptions about certain character by using logical think. Sometimes we can't make logical assumptions because there isn't enough information given so he can't argue about those people at all until the fan receives more information.



Smoker has only shown to be slowed down by wind.




> If I was coaching the Logia team, the last place I would have Crocodile ever go in the Avatarverse is the North Pole, because there is too much water their can it puts Crocodile in a huge disadvantage.



Good point. Why would he be there in the first place?




> 1. Crocodile can't enter the area. In front of the main gate is a huge body of water. How will Crocodile cross it?
> 
> 2. The gate itself in extremely thick. Desert Sparda might cut through it, but the huge wall is made of ice, and of course ice is water. Wouldn't that effect the power of Desert Sparda?
> tak
> ...



Who cares? He wouldn't be there in the first place.





> Crocodile can only absorb water with his right hand. Crocodile can defend himself using right hand from water attacks, but I doubt he can escape from being completely frozen in ice.



 Refer to my previous post as to why Croc doesn't really matter.




> The only way Aokiji can freeze the fire benders is if they are in water, or he is touching them in some type of fashion. That is why I request that the fire nation to keep Aokiji as far away from the ocean as possible.



Funny how you assume that Smoker's weakness is wind and then assume Aokiji only can freeze at close range......



> True, without the Water Tribe the Earth Kingdom can't beat Ace, but they can hold Ace back if they stay defensive the whole time.



Yeah, cuz the earth kingdom did oh so well against Azula and crew without the help of Aang. Ace is vastly more powerful then anything and everything the fire nation has to offer. And he hasn't yet shown his full potential.





> He only seems to use that baton thing on devil fruit eaters, and he doesn?t seem to use it very often. Smoker?s first choice in attacking Aang would be either to charge at him and challenge him in close combat or to take him on in a range combat fight.



A fight which he outclasses him in every category and should win.


@bijuukage

No.


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## atom (Dec 31, 2006)

@ Limit Tester

Why not?


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## Orion (Dec 31, 2006)

logias have complete control over their element effortlessly it seems,it takes multiple benders just to start approaching the level of feats that logias have without trying.


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## fightingu_dengakuman (Dec 31, 2006)

Yes.....when did you seen anyone in avatar actually *bend* the flame/waterball/boulder/windcutter sent by another bender?  They just dodge it, and return with their own attacks.  Seems they can't gain control over element already controled by someone else.  If that's the case, fruiters will not lose instantly.

Though they will still get pwned when a random water bender splash them.


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## Orion (Dec 31, 2006)

fightingu_dengakuman said:


> Yes.....when did you seen anyone in avatar actually *bend* the flame/waterball/boulder/windcutter sent by another bender?  They just dodge it, and return with their own attacks.  Seems they can't gain control over element already controled by someone else.  If that's the case, fruiters will not lose instantly.
> 
> Though they will still get pwned when a random water bender splash them.



a random water bender isnt going to suprise people who fight practically every day of their life and who are leagues above the avatar people in speed strength durability reaction time and raw power with the elements.


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## MdB (Dec 31, 2006)

fightingu_dengakuman said:


> Yes.....when did you seen anyone in avatar actually *bend* the flame/waterball/boulder/windcutter sent by another bender?  They just dodge it, and return with their own attacks.  Seems they can't gain control over element already controled by someone else.  If that's the case, fruiters will not lose instantly.
> 
> Though they will still get pwned when a random water bender splash them.



Except that the element they face have there own will, and a water bender wont own them, aokiji freeze's it, crocodile sucks it up, ace vaporize it.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 31, 2006)

Bijuukage said:


> @ Limit Tester
> 
> Why not?



Because avatar state really isn't that great. He gets fried by a single lightning bolt he didn't see coming. He is still a human underneath the elemental control and has those fleshy durability problems.


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## TheGreenSamurai78 (Dec 31, 2006)

Suzumebachi said:


> No...what gave you the idea that Aokiji needs to actually be touching someone to freeze them or they need to be in water?




When Aokiji froze that sea king, the sea king was in the ocean. In order for Aokiji to freeze the ocean and the sea king, he had to stick his and in the ocean to do so.

OFMG I WISH PEOPLE WOULD READ THE MANGA> I REALLY DO I WOULD PAY YOU GUYS TO READ IT PLEASE DONT JUST LOOK AT THE PICUTRES
OFMG I WISH PEOPLE WOULD READ THE MANGA> I REALLY DO I WOULD PAY YOU GUYS TO READ IT PLEASE DONT JUST LOOK AT THE PICUTRES

And every time Aokiji froze someone, he had physical contact with them in some way.

OFMG I WISH PEOPLE WOULD READ THE MANGA> I REALLY DO I WOULD PAY YOU GUYS TO READ IT PLEASE DONT JUST LOOK AT THE PICUTRES
OFMG I WISH PEOPLE WOULD READ THE MANGA> I REALLY DO I WOULD PAY YOU GUYS TO READ IT PLEASE DONT JUST LOOK AT THE PICUTRES
OFMG I WISH PEOPLE WOULD READ THE MANGA> I REALLY DO I WOULD PAY YOU GUYS TO READ IT PLEASE DONT JUST LOOK AT THE PICUTRES

The only time Aokiji has shown to freeze something without actually touching it was when he used his breath to freeze the grass he tout from the ground to make an ice sword, Though even that wouldn't be enough to stop the whole Fire Nation in their tracks.

OFMG I WISH PEOPLE WOULD READ THE MANGA> I REALLY DO I WOULD PAY YOU GUYS TO READ IT PLEASE DONT JUST LOOK AT THE PICUTRES
OFMG I WISH PEOPLE WOULD READ THE MANGA> I REALLY DO I WOULD PAY YOU GUYS TO READ IT PLEASE DONT JUST LOOK AT THE PICUTRES




> Forgot how the structure of the base was, but I remembered that it was made of ice.
> 
> Croc can still launch sandstorms at them.




The sandstorms wouldn't have much effect in an area such as the North Pole, and never the less. The more Crocodile attacks the area, the more water there is, the more water there is, the more hazardous the area becomes for Crocodile.


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## Suzumebachi (Dec 31, 2006)

> The only time Aokiji has shown to freeze something without actually touching it was when he used his breath to freeze the grass he tout from the ground to make an ice sword, Though even that wouldn't be enough to stop the whole Fire Nation in their tracks.



Nope:
OFMG I WISH PEOPLE WOULD READ THE MANGA> I REALLY DO I WOULD PAY YOU GUYS TO READ IT PLEASE DONT JUST LOOK AT THE PICUTRES
OFMG I WISH PEOPLE WOULD READ THE MANGA> I REALLY DO I WOULD PAY YOU GUYS TO READ IT PLEASE DONT JUST LOOK AT THE PICUTRES

How could you forget about that? I respected you...



> The sandstorms wouldn't have much effect in an area such as the North Pole, and never the less. The more Crocodile attacks the area, the more water there is, the more water there is, the more hazardous the area becomes for Crocodile.



Which is why, like Limit_Tester said, in an actual invasion of the Avatar world, you dont send Crocodile to fight them.


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## Codde (Dec 31, 2006)

TheGreenSamurai78 said:


> The only time Aokiji has shown to freeze something without actually touching it was when he used his breath to freeze the grass he tout from the ground to make an ice sword, Though even that wouldn't be enough to stop the whole Fire Nation in their tracks.


He also threw ice-spears from afar.
go here

He rides his back and the water below freezes without reaching down to touch it.
go here

He freezes Saul to the ground from a distance, it's durable enough for Saul to not be able to do so much as to budge, despite just moments earlier picking up, jumping, and tossing a ship thousands of tons. 
go here

All that was Aokiji 20 years before the current storyline, and even then I doubt he'd try to be as ruthless as he can against Saul. It's clear that he has yet to show anything remotely close to his full strength. 

In regards to fire being his weakness. Fire would probably effect him, but his powers can also counter fire. As the name of his fruit suggests, he removes heat from objects, if he's capable of freezing a large portion of a sea within seconds and durable enough to withstand people standing on it and other sea creatures within the sea to break it with their strength. The equivalent of that in heat would be immense. Even when taking into account how much heat he had to remove from what we saw was frozen, that'd be enough to freeze quite a bit of land mass also. Even if One Piece doesn't follow the law of physics (and to disregard that the word used for his devil fruit means "To Chill" and not "Ice", to chill obviously means to remove heat), it would make less sense to not do the same thing he did to water on land.


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## Pipboy (Dec 31, 2006)

By the time such a consrtuct would last (1 week), the water must be frozen at least 100 m down as an average height.  Basically.  The water has to be frozen solid down to the bottom.   I personally find this hilarious.  Aokiji helps some dude shave a few years off his trip by killing an ecosystem.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 31, 2006)

Ah... guess I'm too late to post those scans. You guys are too fast for me. I guess I'll post the vid link instead.

Voltaire - When You're Evil

Like Code says, Aokiji was not trying that hard because he was friends with Saulo. Note that he just graced Saulo instead of killing him with the partisan. Everything else is pretty much covered by Code. The fire nation would not be able to produce the amount of fire needed to kill Aokiji. 

I again emphasize the fact that Aokiji absorbed approximately *6750 megatons of TnT worth of energy* when he froze the ocean. That is at a per/second rate. The largest nuclear bomb ever was 50 megatons. That is only assuming he froze 10 km. Basically he absorbed energy equivalent to 135 of the largest nukes ever produced. At the same time. In one second or less.


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## TheGreenSamurai78 (Jan 1, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> Nope:
> OFMG I WISH PEOPLE WOULD READ THE MANGA> I REALLY DO I WOULD PAY YOU GUYS TO READ IT PLEASE DONT JUST LOOK AT THE PICUTRES
> OFMG I WISH PEOPLE WOULD READ THE MANGA> I REALLY DO I WOULD PAY YOU GUYS TO READ IT PLEASE DONT JUST LOOK AT THE PICUTRES





> He also threw ice-spears from afar.
> I got no more ! ><
> 
> He rides his back and the water below freezes without reaching down to touch it.
> ...




Thank you for the clarification; it does seem that Aokiji can form ice in mid air, though that one attack cannot freeze the entire Fire Nation army, a troop full of soldiers, but not an entire army. What I want to know is how Aokiji can deal with numerous amounts of fire attacks coming at him at once. This isn't the Narutoverse were talking about here. The Avatarverse can attack as much as they want without restriction. If you can prove me wrong on this, then I will except that Aokiji can defeat the Fire Nation.




> How could you forget about that? I respected you...




Now take it easy, I just forgot that one little detail in Robins past. Naturally we forget things form time to time. If you can prove me wrong, then please go ahead and do so. This is an argument after all, were all going to be proven wrong once in a while.




> Which is why, like Limit_Tester said, in an actual invasion of the Avatar world, you dont send Crocodile to fight them.




Though you said previously that Crocodile could solo the Water Tribe.



> If Croc attacked the Water Tribe with a frontal attack on their base, you know he'd win.



I was proving this comment of yours wrong, if the Water Tribe attacked Crocodile, or if Crocodile attacked the Water Tribe. The Water Tribe would win.




> Funny how you assume that Smoker's weakness is wind.




Then tell me, what would Smoker's weakness be then? 




> Yeah, cuz the earth kingdom did oh so well against Azula and crew without the help of Aang. Ace is vastly more powerful then anything and everything the fire nation has to offer. And he hasn't yet shown his full potential.




True, Ace is vastly more powerful then anything and everything the fire nation has to offer, and he hasn't yet shown his full potential. Though the example you gave isn't the best one to describe the outcome of this fight. I presume you are taking about that time when Azula's team attacked that Earth troop in the episode "The Drill" right? That was a small troop of earth benders forced into a close combat fight with Ty Lee. There was no fight between a fire bender and an earth bender in that episode. So your comment has no connection to what would really happen in a fight between Ace and the Earth Kingdom. 

I would though like to say that without the Water tribe, the Earth kingdom can't win against Ace, but if the Water Tribe can defeat Crocodile and join the Earth Kingdom to beat Ace, then Ace can be defeated.

I also have one question for the person who made this thread. When you say the entire Avatarverse, does that include those that have died? If so, then that would mean that all of the avatars would also be a factor in the fight as well. If that?s so, then the Logias given have no chance in winning at all.


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## Limit_Tester (Jan 1, 2007)

6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.
6750 megatons worth of TnT.


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