# Kakashi vs X-Men gauntlet



## FireEel (Feb 24, 2012)

Current Kakashi takes on a list of X-Men character gauntlet style at an open ground in the middle of a jungle.

Everyone is IC, no CIS or jobbing.

Kakashi is healed and fully rested after each fight.

Not in order. No knowledge for both sides, but they know they should take their opponent seriously.

1) Beast

2) Angel

3) Wolverine (KO or incapacitated counts as a win) 

4) Cyclops

5) Psylocke (Physical fight, I know if pushed, she can pull off some pretty damn unholy stuff just like most other mutants, so just restrict it to a physical fight)

6) Classic Gambit (No access to full potential)

7) Classic Colossus

8) Classic Iceman (The one who wasn't yet a potential lifewiper and an omega)


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## Huey Freeman (Feb 24, 2012)

Hmm I am assume these guys just have faster than the eye can see reactions in that case kakashi can just speed blitz them all?


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## FireEel (Feb 24, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> Hmm I am assume these guys just have faster than the eye can see reactions in that case kakashi can just speed blitz them all?



To a reasonable degree, yes.

But absolutely no calc stacking (etc Wolverine blitzs Thor who can react to Quicksilver, so Wolverine must be mach 10+!!!)

It would be boring to have something like

1) Kakashi kamuis! GG
or
2) Cyclops wants Kakashi off his lawn! GG

It would be more fun if the characters were actually fighting each other for a while.


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## Huey Freeman (Feb 24, 2012)

FireEel said:


> To a reasonable degree, yes.
> 
> But absolutely no calc stacking (etc Wolverine blitzs Thor who can react to Quicksilver, so Wolverine must be mach 10+!!!)
> 
> ...



the thing is kakashi lacks stamina and durability so his best bet is to end it asap.


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## FireEel (Feb 24, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> the thing is kakashi lacks stamina and durability so his best bet is to end it asap.



Not anymore.

He has been fighting non-stop for over a day already.

Fighting the Seven Swordsmen and getting a pretty bad wound, but he continued on to fight Zetsus, and was just duking it out with multiple bijuus at once.

We dunno how many chidoris he has used, but currently he is using kage bunshin as well, and still had the stamina to want to use kamui.


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## Herekic (Feb 24, 2012)

This is a pretty bad rape for kakashi.


None of these people have significant speed, and all but beast and colossus have only peak human strength.


Kakashi not only has a huge advantage is speed for all of them, and strength for most of them, but it's backed up by his huge verity of abilities.  even against those that can meet/exceed his strength level like beats and collosus, he can just blitz and take them out with ninjutsu


I don't even know why you put psylocke in here while limiting her to only physical. she's slower than kakashi, MUCH weaker, and has no ranged attacks. it's a joke.


Only person kakashi has any trouble with would be collosus because of his durability, but a kamui would solve that pretty quick.


This is in no way a fair fight.


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## FireEel (Feb 24, 2012)

Herekic said:


> This is a pretty bad rape for kakashi.
> 
> 
> None of these people have significant speed, and all but beast and colossus have only peak human strength.
> ...



Pyslocke has pre-coq, world-class fighting skills and enough power to take out Wolverine.

People seem to think Wolverine > Tsunade.

Colossus is supposedly stronger than Thing, whom some here seem to think can come close to destroying most of Narutoverse.

Cyclops is said to be > Pain on the obd wiki.

Angel is strong enough to be one of Apolocalypse's favored horsemen, and has defeated opponents even Wolverine lost to.

Gambit(with the help of Rogue) was able to temporarily take out *Ares*.


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## Herekic (Feb 24, 2012)

FireEel said:


> Pyslocke has pre-coq, world-class fighting skills and enough power to take out Wolverine.
> 
> People seem to think Wolverine > Tsunade.
> 
> ...





Being able to fight wolverine, who kakashi VASTLY exceeds in both strength and speed(not to mention magical powers) doesn't really mean much.


Collusus's strength means nothing because he's way too slow to hit kakashi, and he has 0 defense against kamui to the face.


cyclops>pain? how?

I mean, he has alot of power, but if pain so much as backhands him he's dead.



Angel(if you mean ARCangel) is decent, but still not that far above street level. kakashi should outclass him physically, and his array of ninutsu does the rest.


Gambit stopping ares is nice and all, except ares is not known to speedblitz people, or create clones as a distraction, or use powerful ranged attacks.





Naming off various x-men's accomplishments is nice, but can you actually tell me how any of these people would actually beat kakashi?


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## Angelos (Feb 24, 2012)

Hasn't Cyclops tagged Northstar?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 24, 2012)

Wolvie bullet-timed a fuckton of times

Kakashi can't KO him anyway


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 24, 2012)

and with this thread and his recent "hurr durr low end showings count" bit..OP'er has gone off the deep end

everyone from cyclopes and Logan on down fucking kill him 

and LOL@ kakashi being vastly superior to wolverine and Gambit because magically Jounins are somehow now above A list street level characters for no fucking..reason


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## eaebiakuya (Feb 24, 2012)

But Kakashi IS stronger and faster than Wolverine. You can?t use low showings but you cant use outliers or feats with  jobbing + PIS + CIS.

Wolverine really can dodge a bullet? I mean, not aim dodge. After the bullet is fired he can dodge that? I dont remember him being that fast.

If Kakashi cant KO him, he can trap him.

Cyclops tag someone much faster than sound is also PIS. His blast is very fast, faster than Northstar, Kakashi and whole naturoverse, but his reflexes are not.
He can win if he shot after fight started. If not i dont think he can tag Kakashi. Only with omni blast.

And cyclops need take the shoot. How many time he need to do that? 0,02 seconds? How many time Kakashi need to K?O him ? I have no idea, Kakashi is faster than match 5 right ? If someone know, please post.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 24, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> But Kakashi IS stronger and faster than Wolverine. You can?t use low showings but you cant use outliers or feats with  jobbing + PIS + CIS.
> 
> Wolverine really can dodge a bullet? I mean, not aim dodge. After the bullet is fired he can dodge that? I dont remember him being that fast.
> 
> ...



right so basically you guys disagree with the feats so they don't count?

Wolverine is a bullet timer and that makes him by default faster then 80% of the NU the fact that people like Shang Chi cannot easily blitz him means he can tag kakashi before..Kakashi puts him down for a knock out..even if it wont be easy

As for cyclops and i hate x-men characters specifically for this reason: even this mother fucker likely has enough speed feats to suggest he can tag Kakashi


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 24, 2012)

Can you show me which feat you taking the bullet timing from, because depending on distance or whether he aim dodged that isn't very impressive. Second Kakashi has like mach 5+ reactions from hanging with people like Deva and Gai.


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## FireEel (Feb 24, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and with this thread and his recent "hurr durr low end showings count" bit..OP'er has gone off the deep end



Still hating on me because I said Ben Grimm would lose to Muu and Gaara?



Be a man, get over it.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 24, 2012)

FireEel said:


> Still hating on me because I said Ben Grimm would lose to Muu and Gaara?
> 
> 
> 
> Be a man, get over it.



you mean am I annoyed that someone whom should be banned for making comments that biased and idiotic is allowed to run free? Why yes, yes i am..that you have liberty on this site after expressing such views that you have liberty to post in this section after carrying on said biased for well over a year now...is one of the biggest reasons why people have to be such jack asses to certain fandoms..

essentially yeah I'm really annoyed that you..and people like you who are the cause of all our problems have the right to continue to exist while good posters get fucked over continuously 




Darthgrim said:


> Can you show me which feat you taking the bullet timing from, because depending on distance or whether he aim dodged that isn't very impressive. Second Kakashi has like mach 5+ reactions from hanging with people like Deva and Gai.



ummm Kakashi does not hang with Gai, Gai dramatically exceeds him in all areas when he gets going


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## FireEel (Feb 24, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you mean am I annoyed that someone whom should be banned for making comments that biased and idiotic is allowed to run free? Why yes, yes i am..that you have liberty on this site after expressing such views that you have liberty to post in this section after carrying on said biased for well over a year now...is one of the biggest reasons why people have to be such jack asses to certain fandoms..
> 
> essentially yeah I'm really annoyed that you..and people like you who are the cause of all our problems have the right to continue to exist while good posters get fucked over continuously



I gave valid reasons why I specifically felt Gaara would give Ben Grimm problems. Other posters have also showed scans of Sandman toying with Ben Grimm. The fact that you disagree with me doesn't make my points any less valid than yours.

So you are the type of person who wants me banned simply because I have differing opinions from you? Okay good to know.

Hey here's a suggestion, just put me on ignore, you won't see anything I type then. Happy now?


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## feebas_factor (Feb 24, 2012)

It's tricky to scale Marvel speeds because characters so frequently job to one another. Character that are supposed to be supersonic get tagged by supposedly peak humans, yet at other times are able to fight with far faster opponents.. You could probably prove anyone in the Marvel universe was massively hypersonic if you just set up a who-tagged-whom chain long enough. 

I'd generally say it's wiser to use feats (if possible) to establish their speed.



Herekic said:


> Collusus's strength means nothing because he's way too slow to hit kakashi, and he has 0 defense against kamui to the face.



Colossus can probably do thunderclap as well if he needs to, and if his strength is anything like Ben's that should _easily_ do the trick. But of course, then the speed argument is whether Colossus is fast enough to do that, and what you should base that judgement on.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you mean am I annoyed that someone whom should be banned for making comments that biased and idiotic is allowed to run free? Why yes, yes i am..that you have liberty on this site after expressing such views that you have liberty to post in this section after carrying on said biased for well over a year now...is one of the biggest reasons why people have to be such jack asses to certain fandoms..
> 
> essentially yeah I'm really annoyed that you..and people like you who are the cause of all our problems have the right to continue to exist while good posters get fucked over continuously



You gotta not take this stuff so personally man... Even if you get frustrated with people you think are biased, having stupid opinions isn't and never will be a grounds for banning...


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## FireEel (Feb 24, 2012)

feebas_factor said:


> It's tricky to scale Marvel speeds because characters so frequently job to one another. Character that are supposed to be supersonic get tagged by supposedly peak humans, yet at other times are able to fight with far faster opponents.. You could probably prove anyone in the Marvel universe was massively hypersonic if you just set up a who-tagged-whom chain long enough.
> 
> I'd generally say it's wiser to use feats (if possible) to establish their speed.



Better yet, with an A>B>C chain, one could probably prove that any street-leveler in Marvel could be stronger than the multiverse.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 24, 2012)

feebas_factor said:


> You gotta not take this stuff so personally man... Even if you get frustrated with people you think are biased, having stupid opinions isn't and never will be a grounds for banning...



first of all have you seen what's been happening lately? our new leader is essentially using certain tards as hit squads to draw out regs and get 'em banned

second of all the OBD is the only major league vs debate forum that does not ban for fanboyism and idiocy 




FireEel said:


> I gave valid reasons why I specifically felt Gaara would give Ben Grimm problems. Other posters have also showed scans of Sandman toying with Ben Grimm. The fact that you disagree with me doesn't make my points any less valid than yours.



and that proved that Gaara can buy himself mere moments



FireEel said:


> So you are the type of person who wants me banned simply because I have differing opinions from you? Okay good to know.



lol oh okay sure that's what it is..not you having spent the last year and a half entering any thread involving a marvel character vs narutro to bitch about low end showings and shit

it's either that or Bruce Lee killing things easily with you..you do nothing else



FireEel said:


> Hey here's a suggestion, just put me on ignore, you won't see anything I type then. Happy now?



you know why I don't do that with people I consider problem members? Because ignoring you doesn't stop you from spewing out your BS...we have an obligation to our section to stop any wank that comes our way


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## FireEel (Feb 25, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> first of all have you seen what's been happening lately? our new leader is essentially using certain tards as hit squads to draw out regs and get 'em banned
> 
> second of all the OBD is the only major league vs debate forum that does not ban for fanboyism and idiocy
> 
> ...



You want to protect your favored characters from me by giving out counter-arguments?

Fine.

But keep your personal attacks to PMs. Or I reporting it to a mod.


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## Wu Tang Chessboxing (Feb 25, 2012)

Why do people keep forgetting Gambit is a bullet timer?


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## FireEel (Feb 25, 2012)

Wu Tang Chessboxing said:


> Why do people keep forgetting Gambit is a bullet timer?



Aim-dodging?

Or dodging after bullets are fired?


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## Wu Tang Chessboxing (Feb 25, 2012)

Bullet timing =/= aim dodging

Pointing out aim dodging would be pointless


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## eHav (Feb 25, 2012)

FireEel said:


> Aim-dodging?
> 
> Or dodging after bullets are fired?



blocking bullets with his staff after they were fired. several diferent bullets, individualy


*Spoiler*: __ 






catching a shot grenade here





anyway cant kakashi pretty much insta kamui people after the showing against sasukes susanoo arrow? only psylocks precog could get around that


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## feebas_factor (Feb 25, 2012)

Wu Tang Chessboxing said:


> Why do people keep forgetting Gambit is a bullet timer?



People assume even peak-humans won't have supersonic reaction times. Which would generally be true, but is obviously not the case in the Marvel universe, where bullet-timing street levels are a dime a dozen... Plenty of the guys on this list can do it.

Although even bullet-timing doesn't _necessarily_ mean you have supersonic movement or attack speed, just that you'll at least be able to react in some useful manner to supersonic attacks.



eHav said:


> anyway cant kakashi pretty much insta kamui people after the showing against sasukes susanoo arrow? only psylocks precog could get around that



Yeah bloodlusted Kakashi is pretty hax, he can beat a lot of slow opponents much stronger than him just via kamui decapitation.

That being said though, I think maybe this strategy doesn't work if the opponent strafes fast enough? I mean Amaterasu seems to work similarly to Kamui (inducing an action at the focal point of your vision), yet Sasuke was able to outrun it for a short time.

Though even if possible it'd probably take high-supersonic strafing to avoid.


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## Huey Freeman (Feb 25, 2012)

I am confuse how does a bullet timer with reactions fend off someone who is supersonic?

That is my only argument here.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 26, 2012)

FireEel said:


> You want to protect your favored characters from me by giving out counter-arguments?



right my favorite never mind my going on the record despising  allot of X-men and X-men Author Wank




FireEel said:


> But keep your personal attacks to PMs. Or I reporting it to a mod.



those weren't personal attacks


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## Huey Freeman (Feb 26, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you mean am I annoyed that someone whom should be banned for making comments that biased and idiotic is allowed to run free? Why yes, yes i am..that you have liberty on this site after expressing such views that you have liberty to post in this section after carrying on said biased for well over a year now...is one of the biggest reasons why people have to be such jack asses to certain fandoms..
> 
> essentially yeah I'm really annoyed that you..and people like you who are the cause of all our problems have the right to continue to exist while good posters get fucked over continuously
> 
> ...



To be fair kakashi has feats in reaction speed above gai , and even stamina/durability since we have yet to see a tanking feat in gates besides the fact the gates are ripping him up from the inside.


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## Raid3r2010 (Feb 26, 2012)

1) Beast - get killed

2) Angel - get killed

3) Wolverine (KO or incapacitated counts as a win) - Wolverine tanked Hulk's punches,what's gonna do Kakashi here ? Wolvy takes it after a long fight 

4) Cyclops - get killed

5) Psylocke (Physical fight, I know if pushed, she can pull off some pretty damn unholy stuff just like most other mutants, so just restrict it to a physical fight) - get killed

6) Classic Gambit (No access to full potential) - get killed,Kakashi was mach 5.5 during Pain's arc.

7) Classic Colossus - Gonna win after a long fight

8) Classic Iceman *(The one who wasn't yet a potential lifewiper and an omega)* - get killed

Haven't read more than 5 X-men stories so far but from what I read that's how I see it.


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## Silver2195 (Feb 26, 2012)

Raid3r2010 said:


> 3) Wolverine (KO or incapacitated counts as a win) - Wolverine tanked Hulk's punches,what's gonna do Kakashi here ? Wolvy takes it after a long fight



What's stopping Kakashi from just using Kamui on Wolverine's entire body?


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## Lucifeller (Feb 26, 2012)

First off, regarding Thing vs. Gaara, comparing Gaara to Sandman is retarded for one simple reason: Sandman actually turns to sand, Gaara just controls sand... meaning his physical body is still there.

Ben had no way of injuring Sandman because there was no physical body to actually hit. With Gaara all he has to do is thunderclap and the kid goes down with busted eardrums and possibly bleeding in the skull if we assume Ben's actually trying to kill him. Because, y'know... body still there. That's a pretty big weakness compared to Sandman.

It's also why Sandman would walk all over most opponents that beat Gaara in the past. He's actually functionally invincible while being sand.

Regarding this gauntlet... Which version of Angel are we talking about? Because Horseman Angel tears Kakashi to shreds in about the time it takes someone to blink.

Also, Kakashi isn't getting past Colossus, and there's a good chance he can't get more than a draw against Gambit unless he goes in KNOWING how Remy's power works, because GAMBIT CAN SUPERCHARGE PEOPLE TOO, and basically all of Kakashi's favored techniques are contact ones... which is all Gambit need to make someone a bomb. Basically, you touch Gambit, he'll at the very least take you down with him.


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## FireEel (Feb 26, 2012)

Raid3r2010 said:


> 3) Wolverine (KO or incapacitated counts as a win) - Wolverine tanked Hulk's punches,what's gonna do Kakashi here ? Wolvy takes it after a long fight



Characters FAR WEAKER than Hulk has knocked out Wolverine before.

It isn't a question of how strong Wolverine is, but rather who's writing him.


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## Raid3r2010 (Feb 26, 2012)

Silver2195 said:


> What's stopping Kakashi from just using Kamui on Wolverine's entire body?



There is no way to prove Kakashi's Kamui's gonna get past Wolvy's adamantium. 



FireEel said:


> Characters FAR WEAKER than Hulk has knocked out Wolverine before.



And how someone like Kakashi would knock him ouT ?


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## feebas_factor (Feb 26, 2012)

Raid3r2010 said:


> There is no way to prove Kakashi's Kamui's gonna get past Wolvy's adamantium.
> 
> And how someone like Kakashi would knock him ouT ?



Kamui is weird. Would a spacial warping technique actually be negated by material durability? I'm only reluctant to say no because that seems like a no limits fallacy. I dunno.

He could probably just BFR wolvie entirely though, like he did to Deidara's clone. Or failing that, try to drown him. He's got plenty of water techniques.


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## FireEel (Feb 26, 2012)

Raid3r2010 said:


> There is no way to prove Kakashi's Kamui's gonna get past Wolvy's adamantium.



1) He warps Wolverine away entirely if the Adamantium can be affected by kamui

2) He warps all of Wolverine's flesh away, leaving an Adamantium skeleton behind, if it cannot be affected by kamui. That still counts as a win, considering it takes damn long for Wolverine's skeleton to regrow his flesh, and he is incapacitated.



Raid3r2010 said:


> And how someone like Kakashi would knock him ouT ?



Incapacitation counts as a win.

Water techniques or earth techniques seal the deal.

Wolverine is neither fast nor strong enough to avoid Kakashi's water techniques or earth techniques.

Wolverine may be damn near immortal depending on the writer, but he can't breathe in water, or can he move if he's trapped in the ground.


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## Csdabest (Feb 26, 2012)

About the faster than sound thing. 12 year old Sasuke dodge supersonic air waves with ease while carrying Sakura and Naruto. And at that time. Kakashi would shit on Sasuke in speed. NUverse characters in majority when using chakra amps are faster



FireEel said:


> 1) He warps Wolverine away entirely if the Adamantium can be affected by kamui
> 
> 2) He warps all of Wolverine's flesh away, leaving an Adamantium skeleton behind, if it cannot be affected by kamui. That still counts as a win, considering it takes damn long for Wolverine's skeleton to regrow his flesh, and he is incapacitated.
> 
> ...



Why wouldnt Wolvies Adamantium be affected by Kamui. Its viturally distructible. But if space and time wants to place a peice of that matter by seperating it to another area. Then i dont think Adamantium can say other wise.


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## feebas_factor (Feb 26, 2012)

I don't think Kakashi gets past Colossus unless both are bloodlusted.

My reasoning - if they're not bloodlusted, Kakashi won't use kamui right off the bat, instead saving it for when it seems like the only remaining option. He'll initially opt for elemental jutsus or chidori or whatever instead, none of which are likely to hurt Colossus significantly enough to put him down. Colossus will probably try to physically strike Kakashi for a while, fail due to the speed difference/sharingan, shrug off Kakashi's attacks, and then finally just use a thunderclap. Kakashi gets knocked out without ever having a chance to kamui.

Whereas if both are bloodlusted... Instant kamui probably hits before thunderclap can be used.


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## Havoc (Feb 27, 2012)

Before Iceman was confirmed as an omega he could still freeze brains, make ice doubles, ice shields, etc.

Not sure if he could repair his body yet.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 27, 2012)

claiming kakashi can affect Adamantium

hharr harr harr


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## Raid3r2010 (Feb 27, 2012)

FireEel said:


> 1) He warps Wolverine away entirely if the Adamantium can be affected by kamui



Hard to believe that.

So far he never showed the ability to warp *someone*.



FireEel said:


> 2) *He warps all of Wolverine's flesh away*, leaving an Adamantium skeleton behind



He haven't showed the fucking ability to do that.



FireEel said:


> If it cannot be affected by kamui. That still counts as a win, *considering it takes damn long for Wolverine's skeleton to regrow his flesh, and he is incapacitated.*



Fail,prove Kakashi can do it. 



FireEel said:


> Incapacitation counts as a win.



He won't incapacitate Wolverine unless you prove it with scans this timE. 



FireEel said:


> Wolverine is neither fast nor strong enough to avoid Kakashi's water techniques or earth techniques.



Wolverine is gonna laugh at them. 



FireEel said:


> Wolverine may be damn near immortal depending on the writer, but he can't breathe in water, or can he move if he's trapped in the ground.



We haven't seen Kakashi drowing someone before. 

Kisame on the other hand might incapacitate him with the water lock or w/e.




feebas_factor said:


> Kamui is weird. Would a spacial warping technique actually be negated by material durability? I'm only reluctant to say no because that seems like a no limits fallacy. I dunno.



It is unknown kamui's limit even at this time.

Would that mean he'd be able to warp Kyuubi's head in another dimmension ? 

No,it's kinda hard to believe that. 



feebas_factor said:


> He could probably just BFR wolvie entirely though, like he did to Deidara's clone. Or failing that, try to drown him. He's got plenty of water techniques.



He's much faster than Wolvy,I aknowledge that however im not sure Kakashi's water tehniques are enough to drown Wolverine.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 27, 2012)

Raid3r just out debated FireEel

damn

also excellent post man

and really the thought of Kamui working on Wolverine is border line fanfiction in terms of legitimacy


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## feebas_factor (Feb 27, 2012)

Raid3r2010 said:


> Hard to believe that.
> 
> So far he never showed the ability to warp *someone*.



Pretty much agree with the rest of your post, but you wouldn't say this counts as sufficient to warp away an entire person?

few meters behind Pain
few meters behind Pain

Beats me why the fuck he doesn't just do that all the time.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 27, 2012)

PIS, Kishi made Kamui to overpowered


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## I3igAl (Feb 27, 2012)

feebas_factor said:


> Pretty much agree with the rest of your post, but you wouldn't say this counts as sufficient to warp away an entire person?
> 
> few meters behind Pain
> few meters behind Pain
> ...



He sucked in the fireball after he exploded?


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## eHav (Feb 27, 2012)

yes. kakashi warped something as big as an explosion. wich is clearly bigger than wolverine. wich has no defence agaisnt being warped away. he doest beat kakashi, if kakashi decides to go all out


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## FireEel (Feb 27, 2012)

Raid3r2010 said:


> Hard to believe that.
> 
> So far he never showed the ability to warp *someone*.



Was gonna show the Deidara-explosive feat, but someone else already posted.



Raid3r2010 said:


> He haven't showed the fucking ability to do that.



You misunderstand. What I meant was, if Wolverine's adamantium skeleton is unaffected, his flesh would certainly still be warped. So Kakashi attempting to use Kamui on Logan removes his flesh, leaving a very confused Kakashi and Logan's adamantium skeleton behind.



Raid3r2010 said:


> Wolverine is gonna laugh at them.



I...doubt so. Wolverine would be more like, "Why did he just summon a water dragon and..." Bam, Logan gets hit by the water technique. Don't argue that he's gonna dodge it. He won't, but he can survive it yes.

As for earth techniques, sure Logan can laugh, even as he's buried down to just his head above the ground, cause he won't die. But I 've mentioned, the point of his is for Kakashi to incapaciate Logan, not kill him. It doesn't matter if Logan is still conscious, so long as he's restrained and unable to fight back.



Raid3r2010 said:


> We haven't seen Kakashi drowing someone before.
> .



That's a bad example. We haven't seen Sasuke burning anyone up with his katon techniques, doesn't mean he can't do it.



Raid3r2010 said:


> It is unknown kamui's limit even at this time.
> 
> Would that mean he'd be able to warp Kyuubi's head in another dimmension ?
> 
> No,it's kinda hard to believe that.



This I have to agree. We have absolutely no idea of Kamui's limits, and I would not agree that Kyuubi's head can be warped off. 

Still, I do believe Kakashi can either warp Logan away completely with kamui, or use it to take him out.


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## Raid3r2010 (Feb 27, 2012)

feebas_factor said:


> Pretty much agree with the rest of your post, but you wouldn't say this counts as sufficient to warp away an entire person?
> 
> few meters behind Pain
> few meters behind Pain
> ...



Kakashi kamu-inG Sasuke's Susanoo arrow was amazing aswel but so far we haven't saw him kamuing people,that's all I have to say here. 

It's gonna take a whille till we see it's limit.



FireEel said:


> Was gonna show the Deidara-explosive feat, but someone else already posted.



Yup,just remembered it aswel and if I remember well he needed some time to do it.



FireEel said:


> You misunderstand. What I meant was, if Wolverine's adamantium skeleton is unaffected, his flesh would certainly still be warped. So Kakashi attempting to use Kamui on Logan removes his flesh, leaving a very confused Kakashi and Logan's adamantium skeleton behind.



If he'd try to warp all of his skin something he never tried before.

At least when he used his kamui on Deidara he barely took Deidara's both arms.It's hard to tell he'd manage to teleport all of Wolvy's skin,anyway you have good point.



FireEel said:


> I...doubt so. Wolverine would be more like, "Why did he just summon a water dragon and..." Bam, Logan gets hit by the water technique. Don't argue that he's gonna dodge it. He won't, but he can survive it yes.



Of course I won't try to argue if he'll dodge it or not actually as fast as Kakashi is Wolvy won't even see it coming but I doubt he'll drow WOLVY with only that. 



FireEel said:


> That's a bad example. We haven't seen Sasuke burning anyone up with his katon techniques, doesn't mean he can't do it.



Neah,they're so different.

Is Kakashi's Water Dragon strong enough to do it ? Does Kakashi's Dragon have enough water to drown wolverine ? 



FireEel said:


> As for earth techniques, sure Logan can laugh, even as he's buried down to just his head above the ground, cause he won't die. But I 've mentioned, the point of his is for Kakashi to incapaciate Logan, not kill him. It doesn't matter if Logan is still conscious, so long as he's restrained and unable to fight back.



Got no counter point here.

I know wolvy's strength is likely peak human and im not sure he'll manage to escape on this one but yeah it counts as an incapacitate effect.






FireEel said:


> This I have to agree. We have absolutely no idea of Kamui's limits, and I would not agree that Kyuubi's head can be warped off.
> 
> Still, I do believe Kakashi can either warp Logan away completely with kamui, or use it to take him out.



Great we agree on this matter,at least.


----------



## I3igAl (Feb 27, 2012)

eHav said:


> yes. kakashi warped something as big as an explosion. wich is clearly bigger than wolverine. wich has no defence agaisnt being warped away. he doest beat kakashi, if kakashi decides to go all out



But fireball isn't a solid object like wolverine just some shining plasma. How is that any evidence he can suck in people here?

I mean my bathtub's plughole can suck in over 200 liter of water(all the water inside the tub).  Does that mean an average human whose volume is only 75l would fit through my plughole. 

The explosion is totally different from a moving enemy. Otherwise Deidara wouldn't just have got his arm ripped off. Unless wolverine tries to dive head forward into Kamui it won't work.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 27, 2012)

Raid3r2010 said:


> Hard to believe that.
> 
> So far he never showed the ability to warp *someone*.
> 
> ...




Never showed the ability to warp away solid objects?


Then wtf happened to deidara's arm, or to the nail pain fired at kakashi?


and the arm thing kakashi did with an incomplete, non-mastered kamui.


if kamui can engulf an entire large explosion, pretty sure it can take logan's head.


facts:

-Kamui has on panel feats of being able to warp solid objects, including human flesh

-Kamui comes out very fast, and with pinpoint accuracy(hit a nail out of the air)





Can't incapacitate logan? yea, because I'm sure burying him under like 20 feet of earth would not even slow him down


or use water prison(which kakashi knows, since he saw zabuza use it with his sharingan)

or just knock him the fuck out with continuous blows to his dome.




The "kamui won't work baaah" thing is just retarded.


It has shown to basically be space manipulation. so far, every time he's used it on something, it warped away(only thing immune being tobi because of his own space manipulation)

Solid objects, energy, etc. kamui has worked on human bodies, inanimate objects and energy attacks.


He doesn't need to prove shit, the manga already did.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 27, 2012)

I3igAl said:


> But fireball isn't a solid object like wolverine just some shining plasma. How is that any evidence he can suck in people here?
> 
> I mean my bathtub's plughole can suck in over 200 liter of water(all the water inside the tub).  Does that mean an average human whose volume is only 75l would fit through my plughole.
> 
> The explosion is totally different from a moving enemy.* Otherwise Deidara wouldn't just have got his arm ripped off*. Unless wolverine tries to dive head forward into Kamui it won't work.





That was the incomplete version of kamui. kakashi even said that it wasn't really up to par yet.


It took ages to charge and fire, and was very inaccurate. it was really only good for taking out large objects


After he mastered it, he could fire it off VERY quickly(fast enough to use it on reaction to sasuke's arrow and pain's nail) and with pinpoint accuracy(he shot a nail out of the air, as well as a rocket)


protip: he warped the rocket away in mid-flight, remember?


as in, the rocket wasn't fast enough to escape before being sucked in, *EVEN THOUGH IT WAS ALREADY IN MOTION WHEN KAMUI HIT IT*


In other words, logan is fucked.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 27, 2012)

Why is Logan fucked? He's a bullet timer who's kept pace with people who can at Spiderman and not get blitzed Kakashi cannot say the same

Logan has Bones that shit all over his stupid magic eyeball warp and the regenerative abilities to laugh off anything short of drowning and even then Kakashi has never used a water jutsu with skill required to suggest he can just flood Logans lungs

I smell wank


----------



## Huey Freeman (Feb 27, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Why is Logan fucked? He's a bullet timer who's kept pace with *people who can at Spiderman and not get blitzed *Kakashi cannot say the same
> 
> Logan has Bones that shit all over his stupid magic eyeball warp and the regenerative abilities to laugh off anything short of drowning and even then Kakashi has never used a water jutsu with skill required to suggest he can just flood Logans lungs
> 
> I smell wank


he has shown water jutsu, in the zabuza arc on their first encounter he copied water dragon bullet from zabuza when he was released from the water prison.

@bold I am not sure what your saying , do you mean he cant be blitz by spiderman and had kept pace with him?


----------



## Herekic (Feb 27, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Why is Logan fucked? He's a bullet timer who's kept pace with people who can at Spiderman and not get blitzed Kakashi cannot say the same
> 
> Logan has Bones that shit all over his stupid magic eyeball warp and the regenerative abilities to laugh off anything short of drowning and even then Kakashi has never used a water jutsu with skill required to suggest he can just flood Logans lungs
> 
> I smell wank





Are you actually trying to infer that the strength of adamantium has ANY baring when talking about space manipulation?


you can't tank a space warp, it ignores durability.


Kakashi isn't damaging the adamantium, he's simply moving it. by your logic nightcrawler should be able to teleport wolverine.


Seriously, this idea that wolverine is somehow resistant to kamui is just mindblowingly stupid.


----------



## eaebiakuya (Feb 27, 2012)

IMO Wolverine not being blitzed by Spiderman is huge PIS and CIS. By feats spiderman should be alot faster.

Same thing happen sometimes when Spiderman faces Punisher and Daredevil. He should one shot both with ease always.


----------



## Raid3r2010 (Feb 27, 2012)

Herekic said:


> Never showed the ability to warp away solid objects?



Yep,true.

But that doesn't mean he's gonna warp Wolverine's adamantium skeleton who's *much more durable* than anything in Naruto 



Herekic said:


> Then wtf happened to deidara's arm, or to the nail pain fired at kakashi?



Just human bones and flesh.



Herekic said:


> and the arm thing kakashi did with an incomplete, non-mastered kamui.



Ye,prolly.



Herekic said:


> if kamui can engulf an entire large explosion, pretty sure it can take logan's head.



Im not sure at all.

Prove Kamui's gonna bypass Logan's durability.



Herekic said:


> Kamui has on panel feats of being able to warp solid objects, including human flesh



Human flesh is shit,anything related to durability in Naruto pale in comparation to Wolvy's adamantium skeleton



Herekic said:


> Kamui comes out very fast, and with pinpoint accuracy(hit a nail out of the air)



Ye,it happened in Pain arc either way it was just a small naiL.



Herekic said:


> The "kamui won't work baaah" thing is just retarded.



Kakashi Kamui kyuubi's and juubi's heads,awesome.

GG Kakashi.

Logan's adamantium durability is planetary level in some stories so no. 



Herekic said:


> Solid objects, energy, etc. kamui has worked on human bodies, inanimate objects and energy attacks.



So no matter how durable is a material it's gonna get broken and teleported in space and time ? Neah,hard to believe that. 



Herekic said:


> He doesn't need to prove shit, the manga already did.



Kinda obvious the Kamui has its own limit otherwise he should be able to blow Kyuubi's head.



Herekic said:


> or use water prison(which kakashi knows, since he saw zabuza use it with his sharingan)



Can't remember if he used it but it's possible. 



Herekic said:


> Can't incapacitate logan? yea, because I'm sure burying him under like 20 feet of earth would not even slow him down



Maybe.


----------



## Raid3r2010 (Feb 27, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> IMO Wolverine not being blitzed by Spiderman is huge PIS and CIS. By feats spiderman should be alot faster.
> 
> Same thing happen sometimes when Spiderman faces Punisher and Daredevil. He should one shot both with ease always.



Spider-Man was running in circles against 4 X-Men members including Wolverine during CW. 

I guess it depends on writer.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 27, 2012)

space-time should generally ignore durability

although mass/size does play a role, as seen with Tobi's flush-no-jutsu


idk about Kamui, it's full of PIS and Kishi refuses to deliver on it


----------



## Raid3r2010 (Feb 27, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> space-time should generally ignore durability
> 
> although mass/size does play a role, as seen with Tobi's flush-no-jutsu



In a way or other maybe but still if it were to ignore invulnerability that would mean Kakashi could actually blow KN4's head or smth ... talking about size.




Fluttershy said:


> idk about Kamui, it's full of PIS and Kishi refuses to deliver on it



Yes it is.


----------



## feebas_factor (Feb 27, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Why is Logan fucked? He's a bullet timer who's kept pace with people who can at Spiderman and not get blitzed Kakashi cannot say the same



"X tagged Y who kept up with Z who reacted to A who fought B who dodged C's attack..." You could prove anyone in Marvel was massively hypersonic with a long enough speed scaling chain. They're not really a good argument beyond a single link, and even then you can get ridiculous shit when the writer is massively jobbing to one character.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Why is Logan fucked? He's a bullet timer who's kept pace with people who can at Spiderman and not get blitzed Kakashi cannot say the same



Spiderman generally absolutely runs circles around Wolverine. Even with bullet-timing, Kakashi significantly outspeeds him too. I don't know if you're trying to argue Wolvie is actually faster than Kakashi purely via scaling or what...



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Logan has Bones that shit all over his stupid magic eyeball warp and the regenerative abilities to laugh off anything short of drowning and even then Kakashi has never used a water jutsu with skill required to suggest he can just flood Logans lungs
> 
> I smell wank



I'm not actually certain Kamui would work either because NLF.

But I'm curious: is there any particular reason you think spacial-rift decapitation could be a viable strategy against Ben but not against Logan? Is that just adamantium being fuckin' magic?


----------



## Herekic (Feb 27, 2012)

> Yep,true.
> 
> But that doesn't mean he's gonna warp Wolverine's adamantium skeleton who's much more durable than anything in Naruto




Ok, this really needs to be addressed once and for all:

Kamui is SPACE MANIPULATION. it's basically a projectile teleport.


it is NOT doing damage, or destroying the things it hits. it is MOVING THEM.


Durability has NO impact on it. kamui does not destroy or damage.


Kamui has been seen and explained as basically opening a small gateway to another dimension/space. it's basically he same as madara's teleport, but projectile. YOU CANNOT BE IMMUNE TO IT BASED ON DURABILITY


thats like saying logan is somehow too durable to go through a door. whateve kamui hits is pulled into another space, it is not destroyed or damaged. 


wolverine can and has been teleported many, many times, by many, many diffrient people/devices/spells etc. there is NO reason why kamui would not work.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 27, 2012)

Herekic said:


> YOU CANNOT BE IMMUNE TO IT BASED ON DURABILITY



so we're clear here Kamui is effecting something what fell inside a star and was just fine..what requires herald level transmutation to breach?

fucking yes..Logan is not being taken out by Kamui..and no he isn't loosing limbs and no he isn't being teleported away because Kakashi never BF'rd  a human sized object that is as fast as Logan



feebas_factor said:


> "X tagged Y who kept up with Z who reacted to A who fought B who dodged C's attack..." You could prove anyone in Marvel was massively hypersonic with a long enough speed scaling chain. They're not really a good argument beyond a single link, and even then you can get ridiculous shit when the writer is massively jobbing to one character.



oh for the love of god if you wanna use those cop outs go to anime vice or mvc where downplaying wetsern fiction is not only accepted but encouraged

but don't do it here



feebas_factor said:


> Spiderman generally absolutely runs circles around Wolverine. Even with bullet-timing, Kakashi significantly outspeeds him too. I don't know if you're trying to argue Wolvie is actually faster than Kakashi purely via scaling or what...



are you serious? did you just claim Kakashi is faster then Spiderman? 




feebas_factor said:


> I'm not actually certain Kamui would work either because NLF.



implying Adamantium is an NLF and not backed up by feats are we?




feebas_factor said:


> But I'm curious: is there any particular reason you think spacial-rift decapitation could be a viable strategy against Ben but not against Logan? Is that just adamantium being fuckin' magic?



I think Kamui might work on Ben (and I'd like to see Kakashi teleport a tailed beasts head off first honestly) because Ben does not take a bath inside suns


----------



## Herekic (Feb 27, 2012)

> so we're clear here Kamui is effecting something what fell inside a star and was just fine..what requires herald level transmutation to breach?
> 
> fucking yes..Logan is not being taken out by Kamui..and no he isn't loosing limbs and no he isn't being teleported away because Kakashi never BF'rd a human sized object that is as fast as Logan




...Dear god, are you seriously this hard headed?


you keep comparing kamui to things that do DAMAGE. Kamui is SPACE MANIPULATION. 


It is indeed true that kakashi has nothing that could DAMAGE adamantium.


The thing is, kamui doesn't do damage. it just sucks things into another space. please explain to me how exactly adamantium's durability makes it immune to being moved?


and as for logan's speed, it won't help the point of impact. even with the incomplete shitty kamui kakashi hit deidara with, the actual point of impact where it opened sucked in everything instantly. diedara was merely able to pull the rest of his body away after that point.


this idea that logan is going to rest so incredibly fast as to be able to dodge kamui that is opening RIGHT ON HIM is laughable. 

All kakashi needs is to see the target, and he can open a warp there. and if you try to imply logan is so fast he could literally stay out of kakashi's sight, I will laugh in your face.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 27, 2012)

Herekic said:


> ...Dear god, are you seriously this hard headed?



no but you're massively full of shit if you think Kakashi can use Kamaui to damage adamantium 




Herekic said:


> .you keep comparing kamui to things that do DAMAGE. Kamui is SPACE MANIPULATION.



and you can toss Logans skeleton into a black hole and nothing would happen



Herekic said:


> .
> It is indeed true that kakashi has nothing that could DAMAGE adamantium.







Herekic said:


> DAMAGE adamantium.







Herekic said:


> .
> please explain to me how exactly adamantium's durability makes it immune to being moved?



because unless you're willing to claim Kamaui functions on the same level as the molecular manipulation of herald level characters..or the fucking Infinity gauntlet... (and who knows maybe your willing to claim that.) Kamui is doing exactly jack and shit to Wolverines Skeletal structure

Kakashi manages to rip the flesh off his arm..but considering Wolverine can continue to fight after having most of his brain removed and all of the flesh on his face by the Punisher..all Kakashis managed to do is piss his executioner off 




Herekic said:


> .
> this idea that logan is going to rest so incredibly fast as to be able to dodge kamui that is opening RIGHT ON HIM is laughable.



why because you say so? there's a second or so of warping effect..Logan has more than enough time to remove Kakashis testicles or lower body in that time



Herekic said:


> .All kakashi needs is to see the target, and he can open a warp there. and if you try to imply logan is so fast he could literally stay out of kakashi's sight, I will laugh in your face.



you know what's really awesome? No matter what Kakashi does with kamui he can';t KO Logan...

and no you haven't proven he can easily kamui a high tier street level character- no one has ever proven that ever


----------



## eHav (Feb 27, 2012)

feats of logan resisting teleportation? actually, feats of adamantium being imune to teleportation?


----------



## I3igAl (Feb 27, 2012)

Assuming Kamui could warp adamantium: To get that adamantium he would have to open Kamui inside wolverine's body directly at/inside his skeleton otherwise it would just tear his flesh away(since adamantium is easily solid enouigh to resist the suction pulling it in). To K.O. Logan he would have to warp away his brain or heart or sth. similar.
Kakashi has shown none of those things.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 27, 2012)

eHav said:


> feats of logan resisting teleportation? actually, feats of adamantium being imune to teleportation?



feats proving Kakashi is on magnetos level

because we're not talking about teleporting wolverines entire body here..herekic here just claimed Kamui can actually damage Adamantium rip and warp away pieces of it

and that's something else entirely

edit- in fact I'd bet dollars to donuts the only reason why Herekic over here is suddenly bold enough to claim a Naruto character can damage adamantium is because we've got a library reg as the new section boss


----------



## Heavenly King (Feb 27, 2012)

Wolverine speed blitz a bunch of special opt soldier trained to take down meta human. I had to post some speed feats for Logan


*Spoiler*: __ 








cuts bullets in mid air 



shows some speed dodging X 23's attacks


----------



## Herekic (Feb 27, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> feats proving Kakashi is on magnetos level
> 
> because we're not talking about teleporting wolverines entire body here..*herekic here just claimed Kamui can actually damage Adamantium rip and warp away pieces of it
> *
> ...




The bolded made me facepalm so hard I think I have a slight concussion.


Did you, like, READ my last post? or did you just see the word damage and your mouth went into autopilot?


I specifically told you that the reason kakashi could do this is because it IS NOT DAMAGE. he is simply moving part of the structure to another place.


it. is. TELEPORTATION.

Tell me slick, how many times, by how many people/devices, has logan been teleported? hint: ALOT


You are(idiotically) claiming that adamantium's strength would somehow allow it to negate teleportation. 


Teleporting a part of something to another place IS NOT DAMAGE. nothing is being destroyed. the molecular structure of the thing being transported is not being changed in any way.



You have yet to give a single valid reason as to why teleporting a specific chunk of logan's body would not work. I have explained to you, and pointed out that it has happened in many cases in the comics, that nobody has ever had any trouble teleporting wolverine.



Also, what are you even talking about?


for one, I don't keep up with who the staff is. I could literally name like, maybe 2 mods on the entire forum.


second, I have been arguing in the OBD since before you even joined you noob(my first account was 2005) so your petty elitist BS is really rather amusing.


----------



## feebas_factor (Feb 27, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> oh for the love of god if you wanna use those cop outs go to anime vice or mvc where downplaying wetsern fiction is not only accepted but encouraged
> 
> but don't do it here



Regardless of whether it's for western or anime fiction, speed scaling chains are just generally a very poor quality argument. They're heavily subject to jobbing and PIS. Fun over-the-top example here:



If you think that's a "cop out", whatever. I honestly am starting to not care what you personally think is acceptable or not acceptable around here.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> are you serious? did you just claim Kakashi is faster then Spiderman?



No. I said Spiderman is faster than Wolverine and Kakashi is faster than Wolverine. If you have feats to prove otherwise please post them. He's faster than humans and can bullet time, that's all I've seen.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> implying Adamantium is an NLF and not backed up by feats are we?



No. I said assuming Kamui bypasses durability entirely _might_ be a NLF, which is the same thing I said in an earlier post. Jeez, I was actually agreeing with you on that point.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> I think Kamui might work on Ben (and I'd like to see Kakashi teleport a tailed beasts head off first honestly) because Ben does not take a bath inside suns



Fine.


----------



## eHav (Feb 27, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> feats proving Kakashi is on magnetos level
> 
> because we're not talking about teleporting wolverines entire body here..herekic here just claimed Kamui can actually damage Adamantium rip and warp away pieces of it
> 
> ...



well i was talking about teleporting logan entirely, sicne kakashi has used kamui on that scale before. when he was barely proficient with it


----------



## Heavenly King (Feb 27, 2012)

I don't think he's get past cyclopes


----------



## Lucifeller (Feb 27, 2012)

feebas_factor said:


> I don't think Kakashi gets past Colossus unless both are bloodlusted.
> 
> My reasoning - if they're not bloodlusted, Kakashi won't use kamui right off the bat, instead saving it for when it seems like the only remaining option. He'll initially opt for elemental jutsus or chidori or whatever instead, none of which are likely to hurt Colossus significantly enough to put him down. Colossus will probably try to physically strike Kakashi for a while, fail due to the speed difference/sharingan, shrug off Kakashi's attacks, and then finally just use a thunderclap. Kakashi gets knocked out without ever having a chance to kamui.
> 
> Whereas if both are bloodlusted... Instant kamui probably hits before thunderclap can be used.



I'd like to point out there's circumstantial evidence that Colossus could conceivably survive decapitation while in steel form. Namely, during the Exiles miniseries Mimic was using a weaker version of Colossus's power, and was OPENED UP like a tin can when he attacked Hyperion.

He was still alive and pain-free (if freaking terrified of what would happen should he revert) with a giant gaping hole where his back, spine, arms and lower back of the head were supposed to be. If organic steel worked like a normal body, by all rights he should have been DEAD at that point. The other Exiles even lampshade it.

And as mentioned, Mimic's power is far weaker than the original he copied it off of.

So the way I see it with both bloodlusted Kakashi uses Kamui, it fails to incapacitate Colossus and then Colossus crunches Kakashi.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 27, 2012)

Lucifeller said:


> I'd like to point out there's circumstantial evidence that Colossus could conceivably survive decapitation while in steel form. Namely, during the Exiles miniseries Mimic was using a weaker version of Colossus's power, and was OPENED UP like a tin can when he attacked Hyperion.
> 
> He was still alive and pain-free (if freaking terrified of what would happen should he revert) with a giant gaping hole where his back, spine, arms and lower back of the head were supposed to be. If organic steel worked like a normal body, by all rights he should have been DEAD at that point. The other Exiles even lampshade it.
> 
> ...




Collosus would be slow enough for kakashi to BFR entirely though, instead of removing a small part


though even if not, how is collosus going to fight without a head? does he have some other set of senses?


and not to mention his lack of a brain. even if his body is still "alive" it's useless without something to control it


----------



## Endless Mike (Feb 27, 2012)

I don't see how adamantium bones provide a resistance to Kamui since it's not attempting to destroy them, it's just teleporting them away. I mean Nightcrawler has teleported Wolverine before, so we know he can be teleported.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and you can toss Logans skeleton into a black hole and nothing would happen



Now this I call BS on, unless you have a cite.

Wolverine would still win though - because he's *faster.* He has at least supersonic movement speed over short distances and multiple hypersonic reaction feats, whereas there's no proof anyone aside from Gai in Naruto is even supersonic.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 27, 2012)

> Wolverine would still win though - because he's faster. He has at least supersonic movement speed over short distances and multiple hypersonic reaction feats, whereas there's no proof anyone aside from Gai in Naruto is even supersonic.



1: Thank fucking god somebody finally understood what I was talking about. Space manipulation/TP is not damage and is not affected by durability.


2: I know logan has some kickass reaction feats, but there are 2 important factors.


1: logan doesn't know that he needs to be evasive and stay out of kakashi's line of fire

2: kakashi literally just needs to lay eyes on him to kamui.


Kamui is actually faster than kakashi's own reaction. he said flat out that sasuke's suanoo arrow was too fast for him, yet was still able to kamui it.


all kamui requires is kakashi to see the opponent and activate it. even an attack he normally couldn't react to(susanoo arrow) was tagged by it.


combined with sharingan's ability to predict moves before they happen, I could easily see him getting kamui off


it's a toss up. if logan can get in on him, his reactions and short bursts of speed can clinch it, but thats an if.


----------



## Endless Mike (Feb 27, 2012)

Herekic said:


> 1: logan doesn't know that he needs to be evasive and stay out of kakashi's line of fire



His fighting instincts are so good they can verge on precog. I think he'll figure it out.



> 2: kakashi literally just needs to lay eyes on him to kamui.



Targeting it isn't that simple, he's never been able to hit an evading target with it.



> Kamui is actually faster than kakashi's own reaction. he said flat out that sasuke's suanoo arrow was too fast for him, yet was still able to kamui it.



Didn't that just travel in a straight line?


----------



## Herekic (Feb 27, 2012)

> His fighting instincts are so good they can verge on precog. I think he'll figure it out.




he can, but the question is will it be before kakashi fires kamui


and again I gotta point out that kakashi's sharingan predicts moves. as in, he'd know where logan is going to dodge to before he even does it.


In the VOTE fight, sasuke went from getting slapped around like a bitch to easily dodging all of KN's strikes, just because his sharingan matured. for physical combat it really is a huge deal.


logan can still fight around it, but the issue is kakashi only needs to land one good shot.



He's hit moving targets, two of which being alot smaller than logan


granted they where indeed moving in straight lines, but again thats where sharingan movement prediction comes in


If logan knew before-hand that he had to avoid kakashi'a LoS at all costs, I think he could find a way around it, but how could he possibly know? he will be focusing on watching kakashi and preparing to react to anything he does, but kamui has no warning and doesn't actually travel, merely appears at whatever point kakashi is looking at


it's really hard to dodge something that :

a: Has no warning or indication it's coming, kakashi stands totally still while doing it

b: does not actually travel towards the target, but rather appears out of nowhere at a certain point

c: is being fired by a guy with a supernatural ability to predict physical movements before they happen


I mean, can logan win? yea, but I just think kakashi's odds are better


----------



## Endless Mike (Feb 27, 2012)

Hitting a target moving in a straight line and constant speed is much harder than hitting a guy dodging all over the place with a hundred years of battle experience. Show me Kamui hitting someone actively trying to dodge it.


----------



## feebas_factor (Feb 27, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Wolverine would still win though - because he's *faster.* He has at least supersonic movement speed over short distances and multiple hypersonic reaction feats, whereas there's no proof anyone aside from Gai in Naruto is even supersonic.



Supersonic reactions sure, but I'd really like to see your example showing Wolverine moving at supersonic speeds...

Also: what the heck? Nobody else in Naruto being supersonic? You just boldy dismissed a heck of a lot of calcs and generally well-accepted speeds there.



Endless Mike said:


> Hitting a target moving in a straight line and constant speed is much harder than hitting a guy dodging all over the place with a hundred years of battle experience. Show me Kamui hitting someone actively trying to dodge it.



But in principle I agree with you on this point. I made a comparison to Amaterasu earlier and how that could be dodged by fast strafing, so since Kamui seems to operate similarly it seems like that could be the way to beat it as well.


----------



## Endless Mike (Feb 27, 2012)

You mean like the Pain calc that everyone was harping on even after Banhammer debunked it? Wolverine has outmaneuvered Taskmaster who makes Sharingan movement tracking look like a joke in comparison.


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## Herekic (Feb 27, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Hitting a target moving in a straight line and constant speed is much harder than hitting a guy dodging all over the place with a hundred years of battle experience. Show me Kamui hitting someone actively trying to dodge it.






in most situations this is completely correct. however here, there is a special condition.



Kakashi would actually be MORE capable of hitting a living target than the other things, even if it's faster and moving more erratically


this is because sharingan's prediction works by seeing life energy. in other words, it's prediction is specialized to living things


even if logan is faster and moving in an elusive manner, sharingan's ability to predict his next move could still easily lead to that one shot kakashi needs.


The very concept of elusive movement is negated if the opponent knows where you're going to go before you do it.


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## Herekic (Feb 27, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> You mean like the Pain calc that everyone was harping on even after Banhammer debunked it? Wolverine has outmaneuvered Taskmaster who makes Sharingan movement tracking look like a joke in comparison.






Task's prediction is based on his analysis of their fighting style.


Kakashi's is a supernatural ability that lets him see the flow of energy in the opponent's body, ie where the energy is going, allowing him to literally see the move before they do it


Again, this is such a big modifier than vote sasuke was making a fool of KN, when only moments before with his lower grade sharingan KN was basically blitzing him and landing hits for free.


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## Endless Mike (Feb 27, 2012)

Except like I said, he's fought Taskmaster, whose ability shits on Sharingan precog in all areas.


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## Herekic (Feb 27, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Except like I said, he's fought Taskmaster, whose ability shits on Sharingan precog in all areas.






Except for 2 things:

1: analysis!=actual precog. taskmaster got outmaneuvered because he was predicting based on his knowledge of logan's fighting style. logan knew he was doing this, and could compensate. not the same thing with kakashi.

2: taskmaster could not destroy logan just by looking at him. if you gave TM kamui during their fight, I bet it would have gone very differently. 


Kakashi doesn't need to predict logan's moves then plan an attack, he just has to predict a single on of his moves, then look at him and trigger kamui.


----------



## Lucifeller (Feb 28, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> I don't see how adamantium bones provide a resistance to Kamui since it's not attempting to destroy them, it's just teleporting them away. I mean Nightcrawler has teleported Wolverine before, so we know he can be teleported.



To be fair, Nightcrawler nearly got killed every time he did that - apparently adamantium is incredibly hard to teleport, he either is worn out after just one jump, or he's outright knocked unconscious by the effort. That, from full health.

This is the guy who can usually teleport 50 people to safety in rapid succession before being worn out and who managed to transport Hope halfway across the NA landmass while having Bastion's arm clean through his chest. And yet teleporting Wolverine is always hell on him. At least you can argue adamantium is resistant to teleporting from that.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 28, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Now this I call BS on, unless you have a cite.
> .



That a blackhole can't damage primary Adamantium? Wolverine would be as dead as Julius Caesar but his Adamantium? it should be fine that stuff has taken some really atrocious punishment 

I mean the type of people can break it don't do it through brute force they use magic or molecular transmutation or outright cosmic powers 



eHav said:


> well i was talking about teleporting logan entirely, sicne kakashi has used kamui on that scale before. when he was barely proficient with it



oh that just BFRing Kakashi should be able to do that just fine if he can actually manage to hit Logan he should be able to BFR all of him



feebas_factor said:


> Regardless of whether it's for western or anime fiction, speed scaling chains are just generally a very poor quality argument. They're heavily subject to jobbing and PIS. Fun over-the-top example here:



so...in response to Logans being a high tier bullet timer you post one of the most  jobtastic comics of all time and think it's a valid counter?

I mean you could have gone with Batman or Lady Shivas instances of above their tier speed but..you went with Slade?



Herekic said:


> Kakashi's is a supernatural ability that lets him see the flow of energy in the opponent's body, ie where the energy is going, allowing him to literally see the move before they do it
> .




actually Task master has crapped on the Sharigan feat wise: I mean killing a master of a martial arts style who dedicated a decade to it after Tasky only read the manual for like ten minutes and still mastered it beyond what he could do

That's flat out superior to the sharingan


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## Herekic (Feb 28, 2012)

> actually Task master has crapped on the Sharigan feat wise: I mean killing a master of a martial arts style who dedicated a decade to it after Tasky only read the manual for like ten minutes and still mastered it beyond what he could do
> 
> That's flat out superior to the sharingan



See, if we where talking about a full, normal fight, you'd be correct.

But here is the difference:

Kakashi only needs to predict logan ONCE. he doesn't need to continuously predict and counter his moves, he just needs that single shot.


the first time he predicts logan's next move, logan eats a kamui. he doesn't NEED task's prediction ability, because his task is way easier than any of TM's fights.


task's prediction is better overall because since it's knowledge based, he can actually think SEVERAL steps ahead in a fight, predicting a ehole chain of events, rather then just the next move


But sharingan's ability to predict the opponent's immediate next move is all kakashi needs here. 


Seriously, imagine how insanely difficult it would be to try to dodge an attack that has no travel time, and is activated purely by line of sight, fired by a guy who knows where you're going to be before you're even there. 


The odds of logan getting hit overwhelmingly exceed the odds of him dodging it


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## eHav (Feb 28, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Except like I said, he's fought Taskmaster, whose ability shits on Sharingan precog in all areas.



and yet he got raped by Mr X's precog, a guy that is only peak human, until he let loose and stopped thinking about his actions. wich wouldnt make a difference to sharingan, since its based on muscle movement and not thoughts.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 28, 2012)

Herekic said:


> Kakashi only needs to predict logan ONCE. he doesn't need to continuously predict and counter his moves, he just needs that single shot.



you're leaving out the part where he needs to hope to god he can BFR a moving target that large and that fast and if that fails the only thing that will come of it is one really pissed off wounded Mutant


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 28, 2012)

Kakashi's chances aren't very good against Logan even if he is capable of BFRing him entirely .. that happens when a clawed Death Machine is wailing on you

and if he isn't then those chances become practically non-existant


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## feebas_factor (Feb 28, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> Kakashi's chances aren't very good against Logan even if he is capable of BFRing him entirely .. that happens when a clawed Death Machine is wailing on you
> 
> and if he isn't then those chances become practically non-existant



Kakashi's a lot more versatile than Wolverine... he's got other options than just BFR. Nothing that can kill him, obviously, but plenty of incapacitation techniques. Earth style, water prison, genjutsu (though knowing Logan that probably doesn't work on him for some reason?). Can also waste Wolverine's time with clones in order to set something up.

Admittedly, yeah, his chances still suffer from the fact that Wolverine will be presumably trying to dodge all these attacks and can pretty much one-shot Kakashi as soon as he gets close. 

Though I'm still waiting on an actual feat showing him moving at supersonic speeds faster than Naruto characters, considering even the wiki only puts him at faster than the eye can see.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> so...in response to Logans being a high tier bullet timer you post one of the most  jobtastic comics of all time and think it's a valid counter?
> 
> I mean you could have gone with Batman or Lady Shivas instances of above their tier speed but..you went with Slade?



Heh. Well I did say it was way over-the-top. I like that example for being totally ridiculous.

Anyway it wasn't a counter to Logan bullet-timing, I don't have an issue with that. Just illustrating that speed-scaling based on who tagged whom can lead to absurdities, and it's somewhat arbitrary to just declare "this one totally counts 100%" but "this one is jobbing and doesn't count at all".


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 28, 2012)

feebas_factor said:


> Heh. Well I did say it was way over-the-top. I like that example for being totally ridiculous.


'

'yeah but it's so over the top it kind of invalidates the point your trying to make..you should have struck closer to home..on a comparable level to what we're dealing with here and there are examples 




feebas_factor said:


> Anyway it wasn't a counter to Logan bullet-timing, I don't have an issue with that. Just illustrating that speed-scaling based on who tagged whom can lead to absurdities, and it's somewhat arbitrary to just declare "this one totally counts 100%" but "this one is jobbing and doesn't count at all".



I'm not a huge fan of Logan being a high end bullet timer and have argued against it way back..but admittedly the feats have always been there and even on tight ass CBR where they are obsessively anal about what constitutes bullet timing..people have made very legitimate cases for Logan

and to be fair he has been doing it for awhile and even kinda has his own hypermode in berserker


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## Huey Freeman (Feb 28, 2012)

You sure bullet timing wolverine is not jobberine, not saying it is false but I find it hard to believe wolvie is anywhere as supersonic or sonic in speed.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Feb 28, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> right so basically you guys disagree with the feats so they don't count?
> 
> *Wolverine is a bullet timer* and that makes him by default faster then 80% of the NU the fact that people like Shang Chi cannot easily blitz him *means he can tag kakashi before..Kakashi puts him down for a knock out..even if it wont be easy*
> 
> As for cyclops and i hate x-men characters specifically for this reason: even this mother fucker likely has enough speed feats to suggest he can tag Kakashi



 wolverine will close the standard starting distance before kakashi shunshin's and removes his eye patch? Just how slow is Kakashi??? 

also, what speed feats does cyclops even have? Tagging people is good, but unless they were actively coming to blitz him without warning, it's a fairly different situatio. But lol, this thread reminds me of the really old Cyclops Vs itachi thread. Everyone was in a rage back then.  This thread is probably pretty boring though...
 lol naruto speed debates.


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## Heavenly King (Feb 28, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> You sure bullet timing wolverine is not jobberine, not saying it is false but I find it hard to believe wolvie is anywhere as supersonic or sonic in speed.



Wolverine speed blitz a bunch of special opt soldier trained to take down meta human. I had to post some speed feats for Logan


*Spoiler*: __ 








cuts bullets in mid air 



shows some speed dodging X 23's attacks 




he can move fast when he needs 2


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 28, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> You sure bullet timing wolverine is not jobberine, not saying it is false but I find it hard to believe wolvie is anywhere as supersonic or sonic in speed.



bullet timing = jobverine? No that's tame man like really nothing 

Jobverine had his bone claws puncture the flesh and actually injure someone who ate an explosion to the face that destroyed over a hundred lightyears of space and planets and shit..and only had dirty clothes as a result

that's jobverine

HK: do you have the scan from WWH when pak trolled X fans by having Hulk call x-23 a cheap knock off?


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## Heavenly King (Feb 28, 2012)

I think i might have that scan i'll look for it. I am sry fans but i don't even think Kakashi can hang wit Scott never mind Logan


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 28, 2012)

Heavenly King said:


> I think i might have that scan i'll look for it. I am sry fans but i don't even think Kakashi can hang wit Scott never mind Logan



I'm iffy on Scott I don't know enough about his reaction feats to say one way or another


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 28, 2012)

Scott did beat 6 Peins @ OBD IIRC


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## Heavenly King (Feb 28, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> I'm iffy on Scott I don't know enough about his reaction feats to say one way or another



I don't have that scan you ask for. I fold a scan for scott


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## Soledad Eterna (Feb 28, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> I don't see how adamantium bones provide a resistance to Kamui since it's not attempting to destroy them, it's just teleporting them away. I mean Nightcrawler has teleported Wolverine before, so we know he can be teleported.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I call on that one. Genins were already faster than the eye and genin Lee is faster than that. It would be bold to say that a jounin of Kakashi's level isn't at least supersonic by powerscaling. I'm not saying he wins, just that saying Kakashi is subsonic is ridiculous.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 1, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> That a blackhole can't damage primary Adamantium? Wolverine would be as dead as Julius Caesar but his Adamantium? it should be fine that stuff has taken some really atrocious punishment
> 
> I mean the type of people can break it don't do it through brute force they use magic or molecular transmutation or outright cosmic powers



Do you know how a singularity works? The gravitational stress as your pass the event horizon is literally *infinite*, meaning anything with less than infinite durability is going to be torn apart (unless you use reality warping). Adamantium is tough, but it doesn't have infinite durability.

However, Kamui is nothing like a black hole, so this is a moot point anyway. 



> oh that just BFRing Kakashi should be able to do that just fine if he can actually manage to hit Logan he should be able to BFR all of him



Actually since Lucifeller reminded me of Nightcrawler's difficulty teleporting Wolverine, trying to do so might stress Kakashi past his limit, he might only manage to teleport away a small chunk of his flesh before going into an internal hemorrhage or something and dying.



eHav said:


> and yet he got raped by Mr X's precog, a guy that is only peak human, until he let loose and stopped thinking about his actions. wich wouldnt make a difference to sharingan, since its based on muscle movement and not thoughts.



LMFAO@ Mr. X being "only peak human", even ignoring the fact that in comics that hardly even means anything anyway.



feebas_factor said:


> (though knowing Logan that probably doesn't work on him for some reason?).



Xavier gave him telepathic shields.



> Can also waste Wolverine's time with clones in order to set something up.



He can sniff out the real one.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Jobverine had his bone claws puncture the flesh and actually injure someone who ate an explosion to the face that destroyed over a hundred lightyears of space and planets and shit..and only had dirty clothes as a result



If you're talking about Thanos, it was only 2 light-years. You keep getting that wrong even though I think this is like the 3rd time I've corrected you about this. Also in the instance where Wolverine stabbed him, he was putting on a show for Mistress Death and just pretending to have trouble in the fight He wasn't actually hurt. Everyone always forgets this.



Soledad Eterna said:


> I call on that one. Genins were already faster than the eye and genin Lee is faster than that. It would be bold to say that a jounin of Kakashi's level isn't at least supersonic by powerscaling. I'm not saying he wins, just that saying Kakashi is subsonic is ridiculous.



This is the same kind of numberless powerscaling abuse that DBZtards use to claim DBZ characters are FTL.


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## Herekic (Mar 1, 2012)

> Actually since Lucifeller reminded me of Nightcrawler's difficulty teleporting Wolverine, trying to do so might stress Kakashi past his limit, he might only manage to teleport away a small chunk of his flesh before going into an internal hemorrhage or something and dying.



but on the other end, blink seemed to have no problems TPing him


maybe something about crawler's pocket dimension doesn't agree with logan?





> LMFAO@ Mr. X being "only peak human", even ignoring the fact that in comics that hardly even means anything anyway.



his point being that logan is not beyond prediction.





> He can sniff out the real one.




no indication was ever given that clones smell any different. in kiba's fight with naruto naruto actually tricked him with a KB.





> This is the same kind of numberless powerscaling abuse that DBZtards use to claim DBZ characters are FTL.



If you want something more solid, we have CS sasuke dodging supersonic air waves without a problem in the chunin exams.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 1, 2012)

Herekic said:


> but on the other end, blink seemed to have no problems TPing him



Blink is a very high-level teleporter. She was able to hurt King Hyperion, for example.



> his point being that logan is not beyond prediction.



So if anything in fiction can predict something, Sharingan can too? 



> no indication was ever given that clones smell any different. in kiba's fight with naruto naruto actually tricked him with a KB.



Kiba's sense of smell <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Wolverine's. Not to mention his hundreds of years of experience.



> If you want something more solid, we have CS sasuke dodging supersonic air waves without a problem in the chunin exams.



LOL, you mean that air shooting kid, Zaku or something? That was debunked as being nowhere near supersonic years ago. Dosu's attacks moved at the actual speed of sound, and no one was able to react to or dodge them.


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## Adamant soul (Mar 1, 2012)

Soledad Eterna said:


> I call on that one. Genins were already faster than the eye and genin Lee is faster than that. It would be bold to say that a jounin of Kakashi's level isn't at least supersonic by powerscaling. I'm not saying he wins, just that saying Kakashi is subsonic is ridiculous.



I call BS, only Sasuke and Rock Lee were faster than the eye can see with Neji having faster than the eye can see reactions. It is far from standard for Genin to be faster than the eye can see, only the most exceptional of Genin are that fast. The rest were low superhuman in terms of speed.


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## Reborns Allmark (Mar 1, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> LOL, you mean that air shooting kid, Zaku or something? That was debunked as being nowhere near supersonic years ago. Dosu's attacks moved at the actual speed of sound, and no one was able to react to or dodge them.



I disagree on this part. Dosu only hit 3 people with his sound gauntlet, and Kabuto actually got hit on purpose, here, on the lower-left panel, implying that he could have dodged it. There's also Lee but he was in terrible shape after the reverse Lotus, and Choji got cocky and had no idea how sound works. 

There's also Temari, who reacted to and repelled Tayuya's sound-based illusions, for one.


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## Adamant soul (Mar 1, 2012)

Reborns Allmark said:


> I disagree on this part. Dosu only hit 3 people with his sound gauntlet, and Kabuto actually got hit on purpose, here, on the lower-left panel, implying that he could have dodged it. There's also Lee but he was in terrible shape after the reverse Lotus, and Choji got cocky and had no idea how sound works.
> 
> There's also Temari, who reacted to and repelled Tayuya's sound-based illusions, for one.



Kabuto was well above any of the Genin in speed so that means absolutely nothing. Temari didn't react to shit she killed Tayuya before she could use her flute, not to mention taking her by surprise in the first place. There is a reason covering his ears was the only thing Choji could think of to avoid the ability, because he knew he was nowhere near fast enough to avoid it. No one who that ability was used on managed to avoid it, the only one out of them who could have was Kabuto but he was under the guise of being a Genin so he didn't want to display speed well beyond what Genin are capable of.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 1, 2012)

I don't see any proof Kabuto could have dodged it either, other than an ambiguous statement.


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## Reborns Allmark (Mar 1, 2012)

Adamant soul said:


> Temari didn't react to shit she killed Tayuya before she could use her flute, not to mention taking her by surprise in the first place.



I was talking about this instance.



> There is a reason covering his ears was the only thing Choji could think of to avoid the ability, because he knew he was nowhere near fast enough to avoid it. No one who that ability was used on managed to avoid it, the only one out of them who could have was Kabuto but he was under the guise of being a Genin so he didn't want to display speed well beyond what Genin are capable of.



Well, you got me on Chouji, though. But then again, Chouji isn't the most maneuverable person in meatball tank state and is pretty straightforward. And no Gennin could have dodged Dosu's attack in Chouji's situation, considering that he's backed-up against the wall and had the sound arm literally lodged on his gut. So who knows?


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## Herekic (Mar 1, 2012)

> So if anything in fiction can predict something, Sharingan can too?




Mr.X's prediction is simply weak telepathy. if he could predict logan I don't see why sharingan couldn't.




> Kiba's sense of smell <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Wolverine's. Not to mention his hundreds of years of experience.




even if logan's nose was better, he's not going to have alot of time to sit there and sniff each one.


but seeing as kiba was immidately able to recognize naruto's scent and attack even while suprised by a henge, it's clear that KB is quite difficult to distinguish from the real one seeing as that same trick sed by a KB fooled him.


it's quite possible that the clones smells are simply identical to the real one. ninja magic bro.






> LOL, you mean that air shooting kid, Zaku or something? That was debunked as being nowhere near supersonic years ago. Dosu's attacks moved at the actual speed of sound, and no one was able to react to or dodge them.




Yes, the kid who shot supersonic airwaves.


Both zaku himself and the databook specifically used the term supersonic/faster than sound. 

Can you tell me exactly how it was debunked?



Nobody dodged dosu's attack because it was pure sound. even if you are supersonic, how do you dodge something you can't see or hear?(by the time you hear it that means it's already reached you)

on top of that, dosu actually controls and guides the waves directly into your ear, its not like it's just freeform sound.


on that note, wouldn't the fact that dosu was able to directly control and guide the waves indicate he has sonic reactions?


it's not like they are being constantly emited, there is only a small window where the soundwaves are being sent out, and in that window he catches and guides them into his opponent's inner ear.


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## Axl Low (Mar 1, 2012)

Wolverine asks Cyclops to get Kakashi off the lawn


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## FireEel (Mar 1, 2012)

Axl Low said:


> Wolverine asks Cyclops to get Kakashi off the lawn



It's a jungle!

Kakashi ain't trespassing on nobody's lawn!


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## Axl Low (Mar 1, 2012)

FireEel said:


> It's a jungle!


I know but I wanted an excuse to post these lovelies from banhammer:








> Kakashi ain't trespassing on nobody's lawn!


Damn right. Scott would nuke the board and Kakashi would be pwned by an optical blast.


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## eaebiakuya (Mar 1, 2012)

Depends on initial distance.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (Mar 1, 2012)

Isn't the centre of breakworld that collosus walked into a nuclear fusion reactor or something? And that comic also includes the major kitty feat of keeping a mountainsized bullet phased, and she continued with it for months.


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## Heavenly King (Mar 1, 2012)

Axl Low said:


> I know but I wanted an excuse to post these lovelies from banhammer:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you damn right he would


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## The Bandit (Mar 2, 2012)

Kakashi has a significant speed advantage.
He can even use the 1st gate to give him a speed boost.
He Blitz all of them, and in the recent manga i believe Kakashi was able to fight and defeat the seven swordsmen and than fight zetsu and than even take on multiple Bijuu and still have enough chakra left to use Kamui 5 times but that would obviously result in his death.
It's hard too say how many times can he use Kamui but he can surely take out more than a couple without requiring the aid of Kamui


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## Axl Low (Mar 2, 2012)

kakashi has never opened the first gate

actually the 7 swordsmen was off paneled so we don't know what happened
all we know if that maybe kabuto sneezed an then the edo tensei accidentally ended


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## FireEel (Mar 2, 2012)

The Bandit said:


> Kakashi has a significant speed advantage.
> He can even use the 1st gate to give him a speed boost.
> He Blitz all of them, and in the recent manga i believe Kakashi was able to fight and defeat the seven swordsmen and than fight zetsu and than even take on multiple Bijuu and still have enough chakra left to use Kamui 5 times but that would obviously result in his death.
> It's hard too say how many times can he use Kamui but he can surely take out more than a couple without requiring the aid of Kamui



Just to clear things up, I agree with you Kakashi has a great speed advantage, and I understand why some think Kakashi can use gates. Reason being, he has in-depth knowledge of the gates, and during his training when he climbed up a cliff with 1 hand, he did activate what looked like the first gate. We can say it is likely he can use it if pushed, but that is not confirmed. Sadly, it is just speculation at this point.

Secondly, Kakashi did not fight and defeat the seven swordsmen by himself. He had the backing of an entire army.

Thirdly, while he and gated Gai are taking on the jinchuurikis, my opinion is that he is merely fending them off and grabbing their attention. Unless he resorts to kamui, he surely isn't defeating them.


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## I3igAl (Mar 3, 2012)

FireEel said:


> Just to clear things up, I agree with you Kakashi has a great speed advantage, and I understand why some think Kakashi can use gates. Reason being, he has in-depth knowledge of the gates, and during his training when he climbed up a cliff with 1 hand, he did activate what looked like the first gate. We can say it is likely he can use it if pushed, but that is not confirmed. Sadly, it is just speculation at this point.



He also used it in the Anime IIRC. It wouldn't help here since it is still an unquantifiable buff for him.


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## The Bandit (Mar 3, 2012)

Still he did use alot of his chakra while fighting all the everyone,and still he said that he can kamui the 5 Biju Bomb's, that means at the most he may be able to use Kamui about 7 times a day before he dies or gets paralyzed so that means that he just has to defeat 2 people without the help of Kamui so at the end Kakashi wins via Speed and Kamui.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 3, 2012)

Herekic said:


> Mr.X's prediction is simply weak telepathy. if he could predict logan I don't see why sharingan couldn't.



Weak telepathy? I'd saying knowing what someone is actually going to do by reading their mind beats the pathetic showings of base Sharingan easily.



> even if logan's nose was better, he's not going to have alot of time to sit there and sniff each one.



Who says it will take a lot of time?



> but seeing as kiba was immidately able to recognize naruto's scent and attack even while suprised by a henge, it's clear that KB is quite difficult to distinguish from the real one seeing as that same trick sed by a KB fooled him.
> 
> 
> it's quite possible that the clones smells are simply identical to the real one. ninja magic bro.



Stop comparing vastly inferior characters to Logan and his enemies.



> Yes, the kid who shot supersonic airwaves.
> 
> 
> Both zaku himself and the databook specifically used the term supersonic/faster than sound.





> databook





> databook







> Can you tell me exactly how it was debunked?



I just did. It was a fuckton slower than Dosu's sound waves, which were actually sound speed.



> Nobody dodged dosu's attack because it was pure sound. even if you are supersonic, how do you dodge something you can't see or hear?(by the time you hear it that means it's already reached you)



Move away from him? 



> on top of that, dosu actually controls and guides the waves directly into your ear, its not like it's just freeform sound.



Still only sound speed.



> on that note, wouldn't the fact that dosu was able to directly control and guide the waves indicate he has sonic reactions?
> 
> it's not like they are being constantly emited, there is only a small window where the soundwaves are being sent out, and in that window he catches and guides them into his opponent's inner ear.



Nope. He just has to set up a path for them to move.



The Bandit said:


> Still he did use alot of his chakra while fighting all the everyone,and still he said that he can kamui the 5 Biju Bomb's, that means at the most he may be able to use Kamui about 7 times a day before he dies or gets paralyzed so that means that he just has to defeat 2 people without the help of Kamui so at the end Kakashi wins via Speed and Kamui.



His speed is inferior, and trying to Kamui Logan would probably overload him.


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## Banhammer (Mar 3, 2012)

I couldn't muddle through the first three posts of terrible bullcrap, let alone seven pages so would anyone be so kind of  tell me what inanery is being pondered about this moment?


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## Banhammer (Mar 3, 2012)

Let's see
Beast)
Drops a satelite bombardment on his ass
Angel)
Goes apocalipse on his ass
Wolverine)
Lol, no
Cyclops)
Get's him out of his lawn
Psylocke) 
I don't understand what this nerfing is suposed to mean
Gambit)
Goes Horseman of Death mode and chokes kakashi with his own snot
Colossus)
He's the juggernaut now. He solos most if not the whole SHT
Iceman)
Retarded nerfing is retarded.. You know you're a horrible thread maker when you have to do it


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## Gunners (Mar 3, 2012)

> Weak telepathy? I'd saying knowing what someone is actually going to do by reading their mind beats the pathetic showings of base Sharingan easily.


I would say it is like comparing apples and oranges. 


> Stop comparing vastly inferior characters to Logan and his enemies.


What's the range of Wolverine's ability to detect another person's scent. Anyway it is not so much comparing Wolverine to Kiba but using Kiba to show that there is no discernible difference between the clones scent which is true.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 3, 2012)

Basically we're doing Kakashi vs. Wolverine, people are saying Kakashi speedblitzes him (even without any calcs to back it up), they're saying he'll OHKO him with Kamui, clones will fool him, etc. Also saying Sharingan precog is superior to the likes of Taskmaster and Mr. X.


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## Banhammer (Mar 3, 2012)

But Mr X used telepathy while sharingan precog can be covered with mist clouds 

Also, how would kamui even work? has it broken through shit with more structural integrity than adamanitum while I was looking the other way?


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## Banhammer (Mar 3, 2012)

Didn't know that kakashi had become a planet buster in his passtime


Also, KB, of which kakashi can only muster like, 3 before he risks danger of heart attack and dying, are notoriously weak built

I don't understand how they are meant to be an effective hamper


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## Herekic (Mar 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> But Mr X used telepathy while sharingan precog can be covered with mist clouds
> 
> Also, how would kamui even work? has it broken through shit with more structural integrity than adamanitum while I was looking the other way?





Kamui is teleportation. durability is irrelevant.


Even mike(who's arguing against kakashi) admitted that adamantium would have no real defense from it.


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## FireEel (Mar 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Let's see
> Beast)
> Drops a satelite bombardment on his ass
> Angel)
> ...



You fail at reading my opening post, then call me a horrible thread maker?

Try being less biased then come back to debate.


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## Banhammer (Mar 3, 2012)

Herekic said:


> Kamui is teleportation. durability is irrelevant.


Kamui teleports mass that it can absorb
It's a tiny point that takes in matter and teleports it elsewhere
If it can't properly absorb any of the adamanitium then it's harmless.


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## Banhammer (Mar 3, 2012)

At least that's how  I saw it.
No one cares about wolverine


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## Axl Low (Mar 3, 2012)

So you Kamui part of wolvie's arm/torso/leg
It will come back

What are the biggest things Kakashi has Kamui'd anyway? An elbow. A nail. A missile shorter a human forearm?

Amazing
Didn't wolverine get ripped in half by Hulk and then regenerate the area between his separated torso and legs to become whole again?

Depending on the writer Wolvie has been reduced to a [burning or was it nuked?] skeleton and then came back from that.

And even if kakashi gets passed wolverine 
He doesn't get passed Scott. 
Doesn't matter if it's a jungle or a lawn
kakashi gets off it


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## I3igAl (Mar 3, 2012)

Axl Low said:


> So you Kamui part of wolvie's arm/torso/leg
> It will come back
> 
> What are the biggest things Kakashi has Kamui'd anyway? An elbow. A nail. A missile shorter a human forearm?



Somehow they think sucking in an explosion counts for Wolverine sucking in people....


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## eHav (Mar 3, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Basically we're doing Kakashi vs. Wolverine, people are saying Kakashi speedblitzes him (even without any calcs to back it up), they're saying he'll OHKO him with Kamui, clones will fool him, etc. Also saying Sharingan precog is superior to the likes of Taskmaster and Mr. X.



sharingan is a lot better than X's precog in a fight like this. since precog wont work when the enemy isnt planning things. however sharingan will read the muscles regardless


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## Darth Xanatos (Mar 3, 2012)

Kakashi was ready to use kamui on bijuu 
He also contained a big explosion with kamui
He teleported Deidara` arm away with kamui


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## butcher50 (Mar 3, 2012)

FireEel said:


> Current Kakashi takes on a list of X-Men character gauntlet style at an open ground in the middle of a jungle.
> 
> Everyone is IC, no CIS or jobbing.
> 
> ...





versus these right ?


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## feebas_factor (Mar 3, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Weak telepathy? I'd saying knowing what someone is actually going to do by reading their mind beats the pathetic showings of base Sharingan easily.



You're still just totally ignoring how Sharingan works. Sharingan tracks muscle to predict what you're about to do. Mr X's telepathy reads thoughts. The latter can give you superior precog, but won't work if the opponent is not thinking about their movements at all. Yet the former still will. 

It's not about one being absolutely "superior" to the other, they actually function in different ways. And Wolverine has no way of throwing off Sharingan prediction, unless you can propose one.



Endless Mike said:


> Stop comparing vastly inferior characters to Logan and his enemies.



This isn't even an argument on this point, this is pure wank. "You're just wrong because Wolverine and his enemies and Marvel characters are just superior and totally way better in every single way so there that proves it."



Endless Mike said:


> His speed is inferior, and trying to Kamui Logan would probably overload him.



We've seen Logan bullet-time and unquantifiably blitz some solders. That's it.

Stop bitching about Kakashi's speed and post Wolverine's supersonic movement feats already.


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## FireEel (Mar 3, 2012)

Axl Low said:


> So you Kamui part of wolvie's arm/torso/leg
> It will come back
> 
> What are the biggest things Kakashi has Kamui'd anyway? An elbow. A nail. A missile shorter a human forearm?
> ...



Subjective.

Do you consider Kakashi kamui-ing Deidara's explosion, or being prepared to kamui bijuu bombs as evidence that Kakashi can indeed kamui Wolverine? (Note, I don't claim he can damage Logan's adamantium skeleton, I mean he actually teleporting Logan away)

About Logan's regen, it depends on the lines you would draw for it to be considered jobbing. At his lower end, Logan has been taken down by peak human-level characters, or ordinary gunfire. At his higher end, Logan was dunked in molten metal, and could still move and escape despite being nothing more than a fleshless skeleton.

As for Scott, again there's the question of whether you would think if Scott is prepared to get Kakashi off his lawn despite being non-bloodlusted. Or whether Scott can take off his visor faster than Kakashi can pull up his forehead protector.




butcher50 said:


> Tail Star
> 
> versus these right ?
> 
> ...



Yes, but note in my OP some of the characters are in their classic versions, and I am restricting jobbing or CIS.


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## Raid3r2010 (Mar 4, 2012)

Im surprised this is still going.


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## Gunners (Mar 4, 2012)

I'm not, thread has all of the ingredients for a shitstorm.


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## Banhammer (Mar 4, 2012)

The strange gauntlet and massive nerfing alone is already signs of a bad thread


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## Gunners (Mar 4, 2012)

No one has been nerfed save for Psylocke. Quit trying to look hip.


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## Banhammer (Mar 4, 2012)

gambit, psylocke,colossus, iceman, juggernaut and angel are all convienently classified as "classic" when none of them has been "classic" for at least fifteen years


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## Banhammer (Mar 4, 2012)

I'm sure the fight between kakashi and the guy who desintegrates flesh by just wanting it to was totally meant to be played straight


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## Gunners (Mar 4, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> gambit, psylocke,colossus, iceman, juggernaut and angel are all convienently classified as "classic" when none of them has been "classic" for at least fifteen years


This complaint makes about as much sense as a potential complaint about vs threads where the series finished 15 years ago. Or complains about threads where people use a character before certain events have taken place. 

Nothing has been detracted from the characters in question ( Save for Psylocke) as it is how they were at a certain point in time.

If you don't like the thread don't post in it. It is not like you're of such importance that threads need your stamp of approval.


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## Banhammer (Mar 4, 2012)

Your example makes about as much sense as snail masturbating a sonic screw driver.
Applying subjective criteria to what counts or not as a valid example of the motion at end by throwing an unspecified and arbitrary time frame in such a way that you can intentionally get a downplayed version against what clearly is your prefered match, is clearly a shit quality thing to do, and as a non shit quality person, it's at the very least my job to call anyone who does it out for it


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## Gunners (Mar 4, 2012)

You have a knack for derailing threads, it is so subtle and at the same time so blindingly obvious. 

Anyway no, my examples make perfect sense. This section consists of a threads using characters from different periods of their existence. You look at Naruto and One Piece threads there are threads using the character from a particular arc/before a specific event. You look at Star Wars threads there are threads that take Luke from ROJ. 

Thread starter is at liberty to make whatever thread he pleases providing it isn't stupid like giving character infinite amount of stamina or altering a character in such a way that they are no longer a reflection of the character itself. If he feels things are more balanced using certain incarnation of a character so be it. 

If it upsets you that much, create a thread where all the characters are up to date. No one is stopping you so feel free to stroke that ego of yours.


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## Banhammer (Mar 4, 2012)

Manga and other references usually give a clear point
Pre-Sage Mode
Post Time-Skip
Etc
Classical is just wank

In the words of a lost sage, if me posting in this thread upsets you, then I invite you to not post here in the first place

:33


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## FireEel (Mar 4, 2012)

Gunners said:


> No one has been nerfed save for Psylocke. Quit trying to look hip.



I nerfed Psylocke because she's a wild card to me.

I have seen her feats of fighting in melee against the likes of Wolverine and hand ninjas, and they were impressive enough that I felt letting her engage in a physical fight only is fair, due to her world-class fighting skills, pre-coq and psychic blasts and knives.

Chances are she might have an extremely powerful mutant ability that I am not aware of, which would skew the match into a one-sided slaughter.


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## Banhammer (Mar 4, 2012)

ITT we admit we don't know what we're making threads about


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## Whimsy (Mar 4, 2012)

Chill Ban, he just wanted to cover his back. Someone is bound to pull out a one off feat that doesn't reflect normal power levels anyway.


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## feebas_factor (Mar 5, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> gambit, psylocke,colossus, iceman, juggernaut and angel are all convienently classified as "classic" when none of them has been "classic" for at least fifteen years



Hey look at it this way - it actually gave us a somewhat interesting thread with fights worth debating (as illustrated by the previous 7 or so pages of argument). Using the ultimate superpowered version of all these characters would have made for an incredibly boring gauntlet.

There's nothing wrong with using "classic" versions of a character in a fight any more than using versions of a manga character from an arbitrary point in the story, which is done all the time. It's all at the discretion of the OP. And if it results in a thread that isn't a lolstomp, so much the better.


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## The Bandit (Mar 6, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> His speed is inferior, and trying to Kamui Logan would probably overload him.



Why 
Is wolverine so fast,or does he have a kamui resistant shield around him that will make it difficult to Kamui him.
It isn't gonna overload him.
He kamuis Wolverine easily.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 6, 2012)

Herekic said:


> Kamui is teleportation. durability is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> Even mike(who's arguing against kakashi) admitted that adamantium would have no real defense from it.



Until Lucifeller reminded me of Nightcrawler's trouble teleporting him.



feebas_factor said:


> You're still just totally ignoring how Sharingan works. Sharingan tracks muscle to predict what you're about to do. Mr X's telepathy reads thoughts. The latter can give you superior precog, but won't work if the opponent is not thinking about their movements at all. Yet the former still will.
> 
> It's not about one being absolutely "superior" to the other, they actually function in different ways. And Wolverine has no way of throwing off Sharingan prediction, unless you can propose one.



That I can: Moving faster than Kakashi can react. He also has a near-precognitive danger sense that is seemingly unrelated to his conventional senses.



> This isn't even an argument on this point, this is pure wank. "You're just wrong because Wolverine and his enemies and Marvel characters are just superior and totally way better in every single way so there that proves it."



You think Kiba has better senses than a guy with hundreds of years of experience, who is able to tell, through only his sense of smell, not only where people are miles away, but how many of them there are, and what emotions they're feeling? Who can pick out the smell of one specific person in an entire city? 



> We've seen Logan bullet-time and unquantifiably blitz some solders. That's it.
> 
> Stop bitching about Kakashi's speed and post Wolverine's supersonic movement feats already.



Wolverine starting five feet away closes in on Nuke after he pushed the fire button on his rocket launcher and kicks it away before the rocket even leaves the barrel:


Wolverine dodges around the gunfire of a full party of shooters; one of them men thinks he connected with every shot; from all appearances.. he didn't (guess he didn't know what he was dealing with):


Wolverine outspeeds a man's trigger finger from 10 feet away:


After having killed a gaggle of terrorists, Wolverine decides to take pity on one of them. The man shoots at Wolverine who's over 20 feet away; Wolverine sidesteps the bullet which grazes him and closes ground with a speedblitze so fast that not only is he a virtual blur but the shooter can't even get off another shot:
Link removed

Wolverine closes ground on multiple shooters using automatics without being touched:



Wolverine dodges automatic gunfire, and then uses a body for cover before the bullets get to him:



Wolverine moves so fast that he stops the path of a bullet after the trigger's been pulled but before the bullet has left the barrel:




Vs. Speed Demon (who is supersonic):

Link removed



The Bandit said:


> Why
> Is wolverine so fast,or does he have a kamui resistant shield around him that will make it difficult to Kamui him.
> It isn't gonna overload him.
> He kamuis Wolverine easily.



Adamantium is notoriously difficult to teleport.


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## Whimsy (Mar 6, 2012)

Hasn't Kakashi teleported entire bodies before? Don't see why it'd be so difficult for him.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 6, 2012)

Nightcrawler is a better teleporter and gets exhausted much less easily, but teleporting Wolverine severely taxes him.


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## feebas_factor (Mar 6, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Wolverine starting five feet away closes in on Nuke after he pushed the fire button on his rocket launcher and kicks it away before the rocket even leaves the barrel:
> Link removed
> 
> Wolverine dodges around the gunfire of a full party of shooters; one of them men thinks he connected with every shot; from all appearances.. he didn't (guess he didn't know what he was dealing with):
> ...



Fair enough. Although some of these are more like aimdodging, enough of them do indeed look like they could push Logan into low-supersonic speed range.

He is, apparently, reasonably fast. Good post.



Endless Mike said:


> That I can: Moving faster than Kakashi can react. He also has a near-precognitive danger sense that is seemingly unrelated to his conventional senses.



But even if Wolverine does have supersonic movement speed, it's still nonsense to propose Kakashi wouldn't even be able react to that, especially with Sharingan. He dodged a barrage of Pein's missiles easily; standard missiles are supersonic in speed.

You're dismissing/downplaying a vast number of feats if you think he doesn't even have supersonic reactions, let alone supersonic speed.


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## eaebiakuya (Mar 6, 2012)

Many of those feats are just wolverine jumping from bullets. Or faster than eye can see feats. Naruto have many of feats like this. In a metadome thread, something like bullets vs ninjas, most of people said ninjas would kill you before you could shot.

The feat against Speed Demon just shows how wolverine dont have super sonic speed. He said he only could hit him because he can predict his next step. Also he said for sure a Supersonic guy will land shots in him.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 6, 2012)

feebas_factor said:


> Fair enough. Although some of these are more like aimdodging, enough of them do indeed look like they could push Logan into low-supersonic speed range.
> 
> He is, apparently, reasonably fast. Good post.



Thank you. That was only a small sample.



> But even if Wolverine does have supersonic movement speed, it's still nonsense to propose Kakashi wouldn't even be able react to that, especially with Sharingan. He dodged a barrage of Pein's missiles easily; standard missiles are supersonic in speed.



Those were rockets, not missiles, which are significantly slower.



> You're dismissing/downplaying a vast number of feats if you think he doesn't even have supersonic reactions, let alone supersonic speed.



What, the Pain FRS thing again? 



eaebiakuya said:


> Many of those feats are just wolverine jumping from bullets. Or faster than eye can see feats. Naruto have many of feats like this. In a metadome thread, something like bullets vs ninjas, most of people said ninjas would kill you before you could shot.



I suppose crossing distances faster than bullets and missiles can cross, running directly at machine gun wielding enemies and not getting hit, outmaneuvering a confirmed supersonic movement character, moving people's bodies faster than bullets, etc. are not supersonic? 



> The feat against Speed Demon just shows how wolverine dont have super sonic speed. He said he only could hit him because he can predict his next step.



That was only part of it, that wouldn't work if he couldn't move fast enough.

[/quote]Also he said for sure a Supersonic guy will land shots in him.[/QUOTE]

Problem is Logan can take a lot more before going down than Kakashi can.


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## feebas_factor (Mar 6, 2012)

EDIT: Interesting fact, human reaction time seems to be about 0.1-0.2 seconds at the fastest. So it's actually possible to calc a lower limit on Logan's short-range speed from those feats where he attacks someone faster than they can pull the trigger. 



Endless Mike said:


> Those were rockets, not missiles, which are significantly slower.



Not sure exactly what rockets you're thinking of here... Even rockets from the 60s fired at about Mach 2.



Kakashi would still need supersonic reactions to dodge them. Also, he used Kamui on a fireball in friggin' mid-explosion, how is that not sufficiently fast? (Even if there is apparently some possibility that Adamantium may be magically resistant to teleportation).



Endless Mike said:


> What, the Pain FRS thing again?



Even if you don't like that feat, there's plenty of others, like the two I mentionned above... It's just a massive pain to hunt for them all when someone wants to dismiss them all at once. But I'll take a look shortly.



Endless Mike said:


> That was only part of it, that wouldn't work if he couldn't move fast enough.



Although it does indicate that while he can tag higher supersonics, they'll generally hit him more than he'll hit them.



Endless Mike said:


> Problem is Logan can take a lot more before going down than Kakashi can.



Realistically, if Kakashi can't end this with one or two techniques anyway he'll get shredded.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 6, 2012)

Nope, I'm talking about real primitive stuff - no guidance systems or anything. IIRC they even had a ballistic trajectory over a distance of a few dozen meters, meaning they couldn't be that fast.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Mar 6, 2012)

I don't recall Kakashi ever dodging Demon Realm's missiles. Sounds like filler.


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## eHav (Mar 6, 2012)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> I don't recall Kakashi ever dodging Demon Realm's missiles. Sounds like filler.



he used kamui on one. so he can tag fast things. like the nail or the arrow, or an explosion. and its pretty instant. i assume that was his point, and that logan shouldnt be able to dodge it


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## FireEel (Mar 6, 2012)

This is turning into a Kakashi vs Wolverine thread.

Interesting turn of events. It seems not only does Marvel love Logan, obd does too


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## The Bandit (Mar 7, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Adamantium is notoriously difficult to teleport.



Adamantium is mass and Kamui can telport any kind of mass at the same level of difficulty.
It teleported Chakra,it wouldn't have any difficulty teleporting adamantium.
Also,you cannot compare the teleportation of a Naruto character and a Marvel Comic character.


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## Banhammer (Mar 7, 2012)

Pops in on the thread


The Bandit said:


> Adamantium is mass and Kamui can telport any kind of mass at the same level of difficulty.
> It teleported Chakra,it wouldn't have any difficulty teleporting adamantium.
> Also,you cannot compare the teleportation of a Naruto character and a Marvel Comic character.



Oh God Why?

Pops out of the thread


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## Endless Mike (Mar 8, 2012)

FireEel said:


> This is turning into a Kakashi vs Wolverine thread.
> 
> Interesting turn of events. It seems not only does Marvel love Logan, obd does too



Actually I think he's one of the most overrated piece of shit characters of all time.

But I can't deny that he's got skills.



The Bandit said:


> Adamantium is mass and Kamui can telport any kind of mass at the same level of difficulty.



Prove it. Nothing in Narutoverse is anywhere near the properties of adamantium, it has never encountered anything of its like before, so you can't go making claims like this.



> It teleported Chakra,it wouldn't have any difficulty teleporting adamantium.
> Also,you cannot compare the teleportation of a Naruto character and a Marvel Comic character.



Why not? They do the same thing, and Nightcrawler can do more of it without getting exhausted.


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## feebas_factor (Mar 9, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Prove it. Nothing in Narutoverse is anywhere near the properties of adamantium, it has never encountered anything of its like before, so you can't go making claims like this.





Shittily edited for your pleasure.

By the way, does anyone have the scan/know the issue where Nightcrawler had this trouble teleporting Wolverine? Because as far as I know he's done it a few other times without that much difficulty, so I'm just curious as to where specifically this argument comes from.


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## The Bandit (Mar 10, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Prove it. Nothing in Narutoverse is anywhere near the properties of adamantium, it has never encountered anything of its like before, so you can't go making claims like this.
> 
> 
> Why not? They do the same thing, and Nightcrawler can do more of it without getting exhausted.



Adamantium is mass right?
So is Kakashi ever been shown to be exhausted at different levels when using Kamui on different kinds of masses?
No,he hasn't.
And yeah Nightcrawler is much much better and is on a different scale on teleportation than Kakashi.
It's nightclawlers Main offense and defense options,Kamui is Kakashi secondary(or probably much lower) defense and offense option.
Anyway could you please provide the scans of nightcrawler getting exhausted differently when teleporting Wolverine?
And for your information Kamui teleports MASS to a pocket dimension,where as Nightcrawler teleports them to a different location as per he wishes.
See the difference between the two.
Kamui can't be used to send Naruto to disneyland but Nightcrawler can do that using his teleportation which is different than Kamui.


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## butcher50 (Mar 10, 2012)

the bigger, thicker and denser the mass, the more chakra it's gonna take to teleport it.

in all likelihood if Kakashi is gonna succeed at landing his teleporting shot against wolverine, he's gonna burst his own heart in the process.


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## The Bandit (Mar 10, 2012)

butcher50 said:


> the bigger, thicker and denser the mass, the more chakra it's gonna take to teleport it.
> 
> in all likelihood if Kakashi is gonna succeed at landing his teleporting shot against wolverine, he's gonna burst his own heart in the process.



When the hell was that ever shown or ever mentioned.
Stop making assumptions.


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## Adamant soul (Mar 10, 2012)

The Bandit said:


> When the hell was that ever shown or ever mentioned.
> Stop making assumptions.



Since the very first time the technique was introduced, the bigger and denser the object Kakashi uses it on, the more strain it puts on him. I think also everyone needs to go back and see how kamui works, it creates a portal that then has to draw (forcefully) in whatever it happens to be used on, hence why Deidara's arm broke off before it actually went through the portal so can anybody prove it can draw in a metal far more durable than anything it has ever been used on?


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