# US Congress hears on internet censorship bill: SOPA



## Toroxus (Nov 16, 2011)

> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- A proposed new bill intended to combat online piracy has sparked a giant backlash from big tech companies, including Google and Facebook, who say the proposals are far too strict and rife with unintended consequences.
> 
> The Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA), which was introduced in the House of Representatives in late October, aims to crack down on copyright and trademark issues. Its targets include "rogue" foreign sites like torrent hub The Pirate Bay.
> 
> ...




IMO, the primary purpose of this bill is as follows:
If no one is innocent, no one can speak out.

Practically every website that is anything: Google, AOL, Yahoo, Wikimedia, Ebay, etc. (and the ISPs) have placed plenty of banners all over their sites that direct to a small petition application. Their business is free-information, and if they feel so threatened as to essentially plead to the public for assistance, that's a big deal.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 16, 2011)

They will cut off your access to the interwebz too, if they see fit (if you've been accused). And without an investigation to boot.

And apparently I heard from one person that this will also allow them to read your emails. Not to sure about that, but wtf.


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## Toroxus (Nov 16, 2011)

Here are some FAQs about SOPA:


> Wednesday, November 16, 2011 5:20 PM EST
> SOPA Should Be Stopped: 5 Things To Know About the Controversial Bill
> 
> By Melanie Jones
> ...


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## Tsukiyomi (Nov 16, 2011)

Does anyone else find it slightly unsettling that the people writing the laws governing technology and the internet often have little to no understanding of the technology?


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## Toroxus (Nov 16, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Does anyone else find it slightly unsettling that the people writing the laws governing technology and the internet often have little to no understanding of the technology?



"Series of tubez"


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 16, 2011)

well we have the motion picture industry and the recording industry writing the laws, so its obvious that it would go for corporate power over an already existing law


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 16, 2011)

Help FIREFOX in its cause 

Also,



Ron Wy-den


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## Mintaka (Nov 16, 2011)

Well this is scary.


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## Bioness (Nov 16, 2011)

Writing letters?

They are the fucking internet take over the government or some shit.


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## Buskuv (Nov 16, 2011)

Considering that this is pretty much a universally opposed and reviled Bill (opposed by such lightweights as Google and Facebook), I wouldn't hold your breath.

Yet, anyways.


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## Xion (Nov 16, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Considering that this is pretty much a universally opposed and reviled Bill (opposed by such lightweights as Google and Facebook), I wouldn't hold your breath.
> 
> Yet, anyways.



It's supported by a lot of people in Congress though. So, it stands a decent chance of passing unless people get more serious.

And the tactics they use to ensure ignorance of its full ramifications and to bulldoze it through is quite appalling.

It's why I have no faith in the government as it stands.

I'm subversive.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 16, 2011)

I posted a warning about a similar bill last year and every few months Demonoid has something about these bills to say.


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 16, 2011)

that, and it also potentially means the end of the interwebs as we know it. Youtube probably being the first to get taken advantage of


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## Agmaster (Nov 16, 2011)

i like how everyone just rolls over and accepts it.  Is it really that daunting?


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## Tyrannos (Nov 16, 2011)

Well this is so distrubing I just wrote to my Congressman to vote no.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 16, 2011)

Agmaster said:


> i like how everyone just rolls over and accepts it.  Is it really that daunting?


Given the fact that the government has done what it will when it pleases in the past and that it has also enlisted the stupid in our country (like the Tea Party) to push an agenda against their best wishes, there's not much hope if they really set to doing this and they've been trying for the last several years.


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 16, 2011)

apparently a majority of the congress is in favor of these "corporate copyright protections"  either they are as far removed from society as the supreme court, or they're being paid.

Or maybe both


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## Red (Nov 16, 2011)

This is being supported heavily by the movie and music industry who have always had an agenda against the internet since day one. This bill is a concerted attack on the internet and internet based competition by the movie, TV and music industry.

Ive written to my senators and reps I suggest other Americans do the same.


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## Bioness (Nov 16, 2011)

Obama has already said he will uphold net neutrality, meaning SOPA will be vetoed if it makes it to his desk


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## Toroxus (Nov 16, 2011)

Bioness said:


> Obama has already said he will uphold net neutrality, meaning SOPA will be vetoed if it makes it to his desk



*Dat.
Man.*



Will be Re-elected.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Nov 16, 2011)

Agmaster said:


> i like how everyone just rolls over and accepts it.  Is it really that daunting?



Yup. Cause the current generation of people in the US just accept whats told to them as having to happen because of A-B-C. Other Stronger willed Citizens of Generations past would have challenged this nonsense long ago.

And its Congress its going to do what ever the hell it feels like doing SOAP is back on the shelves again to scrub clean those dirta interwebz.


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## Taco (Nov 16, 2011)

I didn't know people could be so stupid... The fuck is this?


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Nov 16, 2011)

Do Not Trust any President that rides on Unicorn with Rainbows coming out of Hand.


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## Romanticide (Nov 16, 2011)

2/3 of Congress could overrule Obama though. And why was this just posted today? Why not when it started?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 16, 2011)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> 2/3 of Congress could overrule Obama though. And why was this just posted today? Why not when it started?


Look at this place, its all sensationalism. This isn't enough for the average crowd.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 16, 2011)

If I was losing a profit I was rightly owned or worse my job I’d be pissed and do everything within my power to sop it. Opponents of this bill course resort to scare mongering as usual with ‘potential’ consequences that are world ending to shore up support, anything less wouldn’t bat an eyelid.

Honestly I don’t know which side to believe. I suggest people should look further in to this before lapping it up with one or two articles.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 16, 2011)

MbS said:


> If I was losing a profit I was rightly owned or worse my job I?d be pissed and do everything within my power to sop it. Opponents of this bill course resort to scare mongering as usual with ?potential? consequences that are world ending to shore up support, anything less wouldn?t bat an eyelid.
> 
> Honestly I don?t know which side to believe. I suggest people should look further in to this before lapping it up with one or two articles.


Look who's back and more full of shit than ever. The people you're talking about are making more money than ever, if they weren't they wouldn't have money to pay off Congress.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 16, 2011)

It'll be defeated. Like all others.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 16, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Look who's back and more full of shit than ever. The people you're talking about are making more money than ever, if they weren't they wouldn't have money to pay off Congress.



Not everyone in the music industry is driven around in a limo and lives in a mansion. There are plenty of average Joes, all at the bottom of course. It’s always the little guy who gets hit first and the hardest by inevitable redundancies created by loss of revenue.

And sorry if I just so happen to be sceptical of all the doom mongering. Been there; done that. I'd like more than just one source to be sure that what I’m being fed isn't a load of BS.


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## Romanticide (Nov 16, 2011)

MbS said:


> Not everyone in the music industry is driven around in a limo and lives in a mansion. There are plenty of average Joes, all at the bottom of course. It?s always the little guy who gets hit first and the hardest by inevitable redundancies created by loss of revenue.
> 
> And sorry if I just so happen to be sceptical of all the doom mongering. Been there; done that. I'd like more than just one source to be sure that what I?m being fed isn't a load of BS.





Is this enough proof?


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## KidTony (Nov 16, 2011)

my friend who follows this said something about it being hard to pass this bill. I also heard its the fucking democrats who wants this to go through. WTF?


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## Psycho (Nov 16, 2011)

in portuguese sopa means soup... not relevant, but i thought it was funny


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 16, 2011)

MbS said:


> If I was losing a profit I was rightly owned or worse my job I?d be pissed and do everything within my power to sop it. Opponents of this bill course resort to scare mongering as usual with ?potential? consequences that are world ending to shore up support, anything less wouldn?t bat an eyelid.
> 
> Honestly I don?t know which side to believe. I suggest people should look further in to this before lapping it up with one or two articles.



I understand your skepticism MbS, but its not simply about "copyright protections" as if its as simple as "either your for copyright laws or you aren't".

There are real damages that have been done because of these kinds of thing. Most of these come from the very industries that simply want more shares, not content with fairness.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 16, 2011)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> Is this enough proof?



I can see why people would be upset but at the end of the day if you?re handling copyright material illegally than you can expect repercussions. Requiring that the websites not be given time to take the offending material down is something I find hard to believe.

I can also see those people are too shy to depart with their money when they can rip it for nothing off the web. Of course they?re going to respond favourably to a populist petition that ANYONE can make.


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## Gino (Nov 16, 2011)

If it happens It happens oh the fuck well........


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 16, 2011)

Inuhanyou said:


> I understand your skepticism MbS, but its not simply about "copyright protections" as if its as simple as "either your for copyright laws or you aren't".
> 
> There are real damages that have been done because of these kinds of thing. Most of these come from the very industries that simply want more shares, not content with fairness.



Perhaps, I just don?t think they?ll be as apocalyptic as people make out. People?s arguments against extending copyright were full of the same doom and gloom and thirty years later what happened to all that, ne?

It?s not as if this is gonna pass anyway.


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## Coteaz (Nov 16, 2011)

MbS said:


> If I was losing a profit I was rightly owned or worse my job I?d be pissed and do everything within my power to sop it. Opponents of this bill course resort to scare mongering as usual with ?potential? consequences that are world ending to shore up support, anything less wouldn?t bat an eyelid.
> 
> Honestly I don?t know which side to believe. I suggest people should look further in to this before lapping it up with one or two articles.


Maybe the RIAA and MPA should adapt to the changing world instead of foolishly trying to make the world adapt to them.

Insanity, I know.


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## The Space Cowboy (Nov 16, 2011)

Right, drafting a letter to my reps.


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 16, 2011)

MbS said:


> Perhaps, I just don’t think they’ll be as apocalyptic as people make out. People’s arguments against extending copyright were full of the same doom and gloom and thirty years later what happened to all that, ne?
> 
> It’s not as if this is gonna pass anyway.



It has the votes to pass unfortunately.

And Obama has been supportive of this type of far reaching bill before. Biden as well.

The fact of the matter is, that this give corporate entities their own ability to censor what they feel is intellectual theft, even if its not, there is no need for them to actually consult with anyone or anything under this bill in order to claim copyright like they have to now.

When your dealing with corporate entities unrestricted and there is no middle man, it paves the way to them abusing the system like they already are in other areas.


This bill literally says that a copyright owner could go straight to a video sharing site like youtube for example, and without having to file a claim, could take youtube straight to court and depending on how much money they throw at the judge,could get it shut straight down.

This is hardly "copyright protection" and more in line with controlled dominance of all assets.


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## Red (Nov 16, 2011)

MbS said:


> If I was losing a profit I was rightly owned or worse my job I?d be pissed and do everything within my power to sop it. Opponents of this bill course resort to scare mongering as usual with ?potential? consequences that are world ending to shore up support, anything less wouldn?t bat an eyelid.
> 
> Honestly I don?t know which side to believe. I suggest people should look further in to this before lapping it up with one or two articles.




Oh boohoo, the music companies can't afford to pay their artists millions of dollars! How would they survive without their diamonds and endless piles of crack cocaine? Cry me a fucking river.

I'm not going to have a bunch of companies decide which site I can or cannot see.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 16, 2011)

Red said:


> Oh boohoo, the music companies can't afford to pay their artists millions of dollars! How would they survive without their diamonds and endless piles of crack cocaine? Cry me a fucking river.
> 
> I'm not going to have a bunch of companies decide which site I can or cannot see.



Hon, If you’d just read just a bit further instead of raging you’d quickly realise that It’s more than just their ‘artists’ losing out. Oh no it goes _much_ further down the company pyramid then that, way down to the people on the bottom. How are companies supposed to compete in capitalist environments when the competition isn’t so much unfair but illegal?

But hey, as long as you aren't losing anything than giving a shit about others who are is merely irrelevant, amirite? Same story the world over.


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## Stalin (Nov 16, 2011)

Actually, piracy can help small artists by raising awareness of them. A lot of indie and alternative have made it clear they don't mind piracy.


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## Xion (Nov 16, 2011)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> 2/3 of Congress could overrule Obama though. And why was this just posted today? Why not when it started?



You think Obama would veto it? 

The guy is in bed with the entertainment industry and even more so with Joe Biden.



MbS said:


> Hon, If you’d just read just a bit further instead of raging you’d quickly realise that It’s more than just their ‘artists’ losing out. Oh no it goes _much_ further down the company pyramid then that, way down to the people on the bottom. How are companies supposed to compete in capitalist environments when the competition isn’t so much unfair but illegal?
> 
> But hey, as long as you aren't losing anything than giving a shit about others who are is merely irrelevant, amirite? Same story the world over.



I don't know where to start with this. It's just bleeding asininity all over.


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## Coteaz (Nov 16, 2011)

Xion said:


> You think Obama would veto it?
> 
> The guy is in bed with the entertainment industry *and even more so with Joe Biden*.


Thanks, I just got a mental image of Obama nailing Biden in the sack.


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## Xion (Nov 16, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Thanks, I just got a mental image of Obama slamming Biden in the sack.



I'm surprised Obama threatened to veto the anti-net neutrality legislation.

But this is different. This is the content industry, not the telecoms.

After the shenanigans he pulled with the Drug War, I have zero faith in his ability to do anything intelligent.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 16, 2011)

Xion said:


> You think Obama would veto it?
> 
> The guy is in bed with the entertainment industry and even more so with Joe Biden.


I like when you say shit that's been proven wrong in the past. Obama upheld Net Neutrality before.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 16, 2011)

Firefox cares, Firefox for pres

And how does one monitor the internet?


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## Xion (Nov 16, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I like when you say shit that's been proven wrong in the past. Obama upheld Net Neutrality before.



I clarified in the post before you dude.

Let's make a bet out of it. If I'm right, you pos rep me, if I'm wrong you neg me.



I'd love nothing better than for Obama to not suck. Sadly he does. His about face on medical marijuana is but one example of many. Him not vetoing this bill, should it make it to his desk, is well...another that we shall see.

FTR net neutrality has nothing to do with this. Entirely different issues.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 16, 2011)

Wait, the bill was supposed to pass today. Did it pass? Or not?


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## Xion (Nov 16, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Wait, the bill was supposed to pass today. Did it pass? Or not?



They were just having hearings on it IIRC. Really lopsided stacked against the opposition with four of five speakers for it and only one against or something.


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## Romanticide (Nov 16, 2011)

I think we'll hear if it did or not soon.


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## Mintaka (Nov 16, 2011)

I wonder what will happen to this site if this passes....?


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## Romanticide (Nov 16, 2011)

Probably be shut down, since Naruto is copyrighted by Masashi Kishimoto. :/ That's why i gave out my e-mails to my friends here.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 16, 2011)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> Probably be shut down, since Naruto is copyrighted by Masashi Kishimoto. :/ That's why i gave out my e-mails to my friends here.


Not necessarily, but the internet won't be better for this bill and I do like how they push this shit so hard when its obvious no one wants it.


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## Raiden (Nov 16, 2011)

Mintaka said:


> I wonder what will happen to this site if this passes....?



Nothing.

I have full confidence that Tazmo can beat the US government. He can't lose his gold members.


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## Blitzomaru (Nov 16, 2011)

Well there was an independent study done a year ago that showed that the money teh RIAA and the MPAA say they lose is in fact the complete opposite. They actually make more money when people pirate their wares than when they don't. The study concluded that the vast majority of people who pirate music are the people who wouldn't purchase it even if they had the money. And there is a pretty sizable percentage that actually eventually purchase the music and movies they pirate. But the RIAA and MPAA think that every illegal download is a download from someone who would buy the movie or CD. 

Im not saying that pirating is a good thing, but its not the 120 billion dollar problem they make it out to be.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 16, 2011)

So basically they're hurting themselves?


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## Red (Nov 16, 2011)

MbS said:


> Hon, If you’d just read just a bit further instead of raging you’d quickly realise that It’s more than just their ‘artists’ losing out. Oh no it goes _much_ further down the company pyramid then that, way down to the people on the bottom. How are companies supposed to compete in capitalist environments when the competition isn’t so much unfair but illegal?


Yes, the people at the bottom were paid a lot of money before piracy. It is because of piracy that the bottom half of the workers are now suffering! Don't bullshit me. The bottom half of the company has always been shafted by the top, piracy didn't do a damn thing.

Piracy is a backlash to the idiotic business tendencies the different industries have gotten themselves into.



> But hey, as long as you aren't losing anything than giving a shit about  others who are is merely irrelevant, amirite? Same story the world over.


i kno rite? The companies complaining about piracy care about the consumer! They all have our best interests at heart! Bullshit.


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## Red (Nov 16, 2011)

Also, you're complaining about internet piracy but you're using Boyaking's illustration of Asuka with his consent as your avatar. I want to call you something. Starts with an H and rhymes with critic.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 16, 2011)

Blitzomaru said:


> Im not saying that pirating is a good thing, but its not the 120 billion dollar problem they make it out to be.



You haven't lost money on money you would never get in the first place after all.
 Not everyone can afford it, but the companies still don't lose money out of it. People tend to pay for something when they have the money.
It's more of a win win win nobody really loses kind of thing.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Nov 17, 2011)

You know why the average person doesn't care what Congress or the President say or do because they are too busy trying to pay their bills/put food on the table/put their kids in school/and keep a roof over their heads to care about some piss ant bill about the net.

-- -- --- --- -- ----- - ---- ----------- ----

If you recall back in the 90s the country was in another recession like the one in the 80s
People clamped down on spending beyond anything other than the necessities.

Napster came along the masses found a secondary means of listening to music and making an informed choice on what to buy and what not to buy The RIAA took insult to the idea that consumers had that power over them shut it down but the idea continues to this day the internet either through streaming sites or P2P sites are a means by which consumers choose before buying an item to decide weather or not the item justifies the price it is sold for in stores or at online-stores.

--- ------ -- - ------------------ ---+---

Listen well and Good nothing Good will come of any Bill that Congress passes or The President Sign into law that take away privilages or rights away from citizins.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 17, 2011)

Red said:


> Oh boohoo, the music companies can't afford to pay their artists millions of dollars! How would they survive without their diamonds and endless piles of crack cocaine? Cry me a fucking river.
> 
> I'm not going to have a bunch of companies decide which site I can or cannot see.



Actually, artists make the bulk of their money from live concerts and merchandise. The record companies keep a lion's share of profits gained from album sales, which is why you have many artists cutting out the middleman and releasing records independently (like Prince has for example). The recording industry, at least the big names, are becoming increasingly irrelevant in this digital age where one can simply post their stuff on YouTube, iTunes, or whatnot and gain a loyal following from that. It makes perfect sense that they would have such strong support for bills like this considering that. They're fighting against their fading relevancy in the music business.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 17, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Not necessarily, but the internet won't be better for this bill and I do like how they push this shit so hard when its obvious no one wants it.



I would just love to see the expression on their faces when they find out they have to censor 99.9% of the internet 


Seto Kaiba said:


> Actually, artists make the bulk of their money from live concerts and merchandise. The record companies keep a lion's share of profits gained from album sales, which is why you have many artists cutting out the middleman and releasing records independently (like Prince has for example). The recording industry, at least the big names, are becoming increasingly irrelevant in this digital age where one can simply post their stuff on YouTube, iTunes, or whatnot and gain a loyal following from that. It makes perfect sense that they would have such strong support for bills like this considering that.



So basically it's a bill that gives corporates even more power they don't need and gives us unwarranted misery if it passes.
This bill would break so many pre-existing laws it shouldn't pass anyway.


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## Platinum (Nov 17, 2011)

Another bill for everyone to overreact to .

Even if it passed a veto it would never hold up in court.


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## Girls' Generation (Nov 17, 2011)

Watch the video. You'll learn what this bill does and how it could possibly affect most people.


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## Romanticide (Nov 17, 2011)

Platinum said:


> Another bill for everyone to overreact to .
> 
> Even if it passed a veto it would never hold up in court.



2/3 of Congress can override Obama, so.....


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Nov 17, 2011)

Obama doesn't need Congress anymore he's been signing and passing his own Legislation for the last 6 Months without Congress's Council.


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## Mider T (Nov 17, 2011)

^If that's true then why isn't his base satisfied?  Because you're lying.

Red's a bit out of touch, I mean when was the last time you've seen a competent artist do crack?  Selling blow went out long after doing it and nobody has even done the former in years.


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## Buskuv (Nov 17, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Actually, artists make the bulk of their money from live concerts and merchandise. The record companies keep a lion's share of profits gained from album sales, which is why you have many artists cutting out the middleman and releasing records independently (like Prince has for example). The recording industry, at least the big names, are becoming increasingly irrelevant in this digital age where one can simply post their stuff on YouTube, iTunes, or whatnot and gain a loyal following from that. It makes perfect sense that they would have such strong support for bills like this considering that. They're fighting against their fading relevancy in the music business.





Indentured servitude, aw yeah.


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## Draffut (Nov 17, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Obama doesn't need Congress anymore he's been signing and passing his own Legislation for the last 6 Months without Congress's Council.



Yes, that's why the entire jobs bill was passed whole cloth.  Now please remove your head from your asshole.


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## Friday (Nov 17, 2011)

God I hope they don't sensor my pornography. It's bad enough asians don't have the biggest dicks, but making them blurry doesn't high the fact that there's not much size to the rod. Imagine if American porn was censored


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## Toroxus (Nov 17, 2011)

Happy to see my once-a-year thread is doing well 

I know I'm Purrfect 

Anyways, this law isn't really about copyright protection as much as it is Congress getting it's foot into the internet-social-engineering door. It's a media outlet they want to control.

Actually, I'm against this law because it'll outlaw my asian black gore transexual gay trap shota furry foot polygamist obese torture twincestual interracial yaoi porn. 
If a law like this passed, you sure as hell would see another law coming around that would make those things disappear.


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## Bioness (Nov 17, 2011)




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## On and On (Nov 17, 2011)

i have a seriously hard time seeing this being passed



> A proposed new bill intended to combat online piracy has sparked a giant backlash from big tech companies, including Google and Facebook, who say the proposals are far too strict and rife with unintended consequences.



Are people forgetting that politicians sit in the pockets of companies like these? What a politcian says and does can be two radically different things 

Not to mention if it did pass, I think we'd see nothing short of full on rioting in the streets tbh. At least I'd hope so, or I'm out of here


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## soulnova (Nov 17, 2011)

Dammit, I can't rep you again.




On and On said:


> Not to mention if it did pass, I think we'd see nothing short of full on rioting in the streets tbh. At least I'd hope so, or I'm out of here



You just can't take away the internet or you will have the 15-30 generation reaching for their molotov bombs and home made weapons.


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## Stroev (Nov 17, 2011)

The Jews won't let this stand. The goyim give them far too many shekels with the internet, losing it would be a blow to them.


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## Darth Nihilus (Nov 17, 2011)

Stroev said:


> The Jews won't let this stand. The goyim give them far too many shekels with the internet, losing it would be a blow to them.



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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## geG (Nov 17, 2011)

On and On said:


> i have a seriously hard time seeing this being passed
> 
> 
> 
> Are people forgetting that politicians sit in the pockets of companies like these? What a politcian says and does can be two radically different things



They're in the pockets of entertainment industries too  These bills apparently have broad bipartisan support in Congress despite opposition from both conservatives and liberals alike outside of it.

Goddamn why is it the one time Congress finally agrees on something it's shit like this


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## Karsh (Nov 17, 2011)

Toroxus said:


> Anyways, this law isn't really about copyright protection as much as it is Congress getting it's foot into the internet-social-engineering door. It's a media outlet they want to control.



I was about to comment about how the U.S. Congress has debt to think about

but perhaps by passing this bill they're hoping to protect big business, thinking that lessening internet piracy will help in ultimately lowering their debt

Either way they're not helping themselves by passing this, especially when the main problem is, in fact, more government control and their debt problem is far more complex and widespread than "focusing on internet piracy"


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Nov 17, 2011)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Yes, that's why the entire jobs bill was passed whole cloth.  Now please remove your head from your asshole.



The First Step is Love , the next is mercy.


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 18, 2011)

This isn't to complete any sane resolution, make no mistake 

As i said before, this is about securing for the Industry, controlled dominance of all assets under the guise of something else. Whether or not this hurts anyone or anything is not for the shills to think about, they'll just pass whatever they'll told to


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## Goshinki (Nov 18, 2011)

So...when are we gonna know whenever its passed or not.

I mean this is bad. Really really bad.


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## CrazyMoronX (Nov 18, 2011)

We just have to pay them enough money and they will not do it. 

They like money.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 18, 2011)




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## dream (Nov 18, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> We just have to pay them enough money and they will not do it.
> 
> They like money.



We should get Tazmo to give us some of his billions.


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## Goshinki (Nov 18, 2011)

What are the odds of this bill passing. 90%? 70%? 20%?


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 18, 2011)

Goshinki said:


> What are the odds of this bill passing. 90%? 70%? 20%?



Doubt most of them even know what an internetz is.


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## Goshinki (Nov 18, 2011)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Doubt most of them even know what an internetz is.



Dosent really answer my question.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 18, 2011)

It didn't pass. And it wouldn't get through the Senate, and Obama will just veto it.


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 18, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> *It didn't pass.* And it wouldn't get through the Senate, and Obama will just veto it.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdRyNea19PE[/YOUTUBE]

 Thank god.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 18, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Does anyone else find it slightly unsettling that the people writing the laws governing technology and the internet often have little to no understanding of the technology?


HAHA were you born today? When was the last time when politicians weren't laggind one or two generations behind the real world?


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> It didn't pass.


Please state the source before making our hopes go up

//HbS


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Nov 18, 2011)

Its passed. The Internet is finished 1984 has come at last I tried to warns them but they woudln't listen they never listen... Big Bro cams everywhere, cameras and wiretaps inside TVs, Computers Video Game Consoles, Phones and Vehicles... Even Toilets too.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 18, 2011)

Hunted by sister said:


> HAHA were you born today? When was the last time when politicians weren't laggind one or two generations behind the real world?



I don't recall saying it was NEW, just that it was unsettling.  So no reason to be a dick about it.


----------



## geG (Nov 18, 2011)

Hunted by sister said:


> Please state the source before making our hopes go up
> 
> //HbS


Yeah will all the support it had in the House I'd be extremely surprised if it didn't pass there.

Do we know if they even voted yet?


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 18, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> I don't recall saying it was NEW, just that it was unsettling.  So no reason to be a dick about it.


Sorry, didn't want to sound like a dick

//HbS


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 18, 2011)

What can we do to make sure this abomination dosent pass? Do we even have a fighting chance? I mean we got to do something! If this bill passes this website will probably disapear, along with many others! You may as well say goodbye to all anime/manga on the internet!


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 18, 2011)

I'm up for bombing them all to death. 

//HbS


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 18, 2011)

Hunted by sister said:


> I'm up for bombing them all to death.
> 
> //HbS



This is serious.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 18, 2011)

Yeah. I am seriously willing to murder these people for making such laws.

//HbS


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 18, 2011)

Hunted by sister said:


> Yeah. I am seriously willing to murder these people for making such laws.
> 
> //HbS



Put some pizza sauce on them before hand not a crime to kill vegetables


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 18, 2011)

Hunted by sister said:


> Yeah. I am seriously willing to murder these people for making such laws.
> 
> //HbS



Then by all means please do try.

BTW heres a lin to a pettion anyone can sign. It already has over  40,342 singatures. The more the better.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 18, 2011)

Sure will, next time I visit US.

//HbS


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 18, 2011)

*Winning.*

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArEO4vw8IIE[/YOUTUBE]

As Charlie sheen would have said, 'Winning!'


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 18, 2011)

Berserk said:


> That is absolutely bullshit.
> 
> 
> These are the companies trying to force this draconian bill through.  No thanks.



Viacom can go screw itself.
Piracy in the big picture is not that bad a thing and any major losses they report are not due to piracy, but due to being stupid and greedy. That or they make up they are having losses that don't exist.


----------



## vampiredude (Nov 18, 2011)

They are losing?

well this suprised noone...


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 18, 2011)

Piracy, in the bigger picture, is a godsend for the market. It has positive influence over the market as a whole, and it is arguable if individual companies and corporations lose anything at all to the piracy.

Piracy is one of the biggest blame-toys in the history.

//HbS


----------



## Daenerys Stormborn (Nov 18, 2011)

Apparently Nancy Pelosi and Ron Paul have both stated their opposition to the bill:


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 18, 2011)

Akatsuki no Tenshi said:


> Apparently Nancy Pelosi and Ron Paul have both stated their opposition to the bill:



Excellent! The odds of this thing passing are decreasing!


----------



## ensoriki (Nov 18, 2011)

Time for conspiracy theory.
This is all a rouse they knew wasn't going to pass just to distract you from a bigger issue.
The bait has been taken.
Now Parliament is free to get those limited edition polkadot coloured jellybeans and no one will know.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 18, 2011)

ensoriki said:


> Time for conspiracy theory.
> This is all a rouse they knew wasn't going to pass just to distract you from a bigger issue.
> The bait has been taken.
> Now Parliament is free to get those limited edition polkadot coloured jellybeans and no one will know.



Will those beans be counted as a vegetable?


----------



## Kahvehane (Nov 18, 2011)

The government needs to realize that the internet is not their plaything.


----------



## ensoriki (Nov 18, 2011)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Will those beans be counted as a vegetable?



No a fruit of course


----------



## hehey (Nov 18, 2011)

The end times are coming, Nancy Peloci isn't going to Marshall much support and even if she could shes only minority leader, on the other hand most conservatives don't listen to Ron Paul because of how crazy and extreme he usually is.


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 19, 2011)

So any more news?


----------



## emROARS (Nov 19, 2011)

Everyone was going crazy about this on Tumblr, even the management did a whole 'censorship' thing so everyone would sign.

:/


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 19, 2011)

There's good reason to go crazy. And why the fuck are you on tumblr


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Nov 19, 2011)

To War!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Xion (Nov 19, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> There's good reason to go crazy. And why the fuck are you on tumblr



Exactly. People need to mouth off about this as much as they can.

I personally have made sure forum-goers, friends, coworkers, and even my Congressmen know.

Yes one person doesn't make a difference but if everyone thinks like that then everyone failed to make a difference.


----------



## TSC (Nov 19, 2011)

So when exactly is the date of deciding the decision? or did it happen already and the bill didn't pass?


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Nov 19, 2011)

We need people like this to enforce checks and Balances on Congress

[Youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cXx99MZSzo&feature=related[/Youtube]


----------



## geG (Nov 19, 2011)

TSC said:


> So when exactly is the date of deciding the decision? or did it happen already and the bill didn't pass?



Pretty sure it hasn't been voted on yet. I don't know when that's going to be


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 19, 2011)

I thought the hearings were a couple of days ago?

//HbS


----------



## Frostman (Nov 19, 2011)

A little part of me wants this to go through just to see the chaos that follows.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 19, 2011)

Frostman said:


> A little part of me wants this to go through just to see the chaos that follows.



All of me thinks that's just stupid.


----------



## Daenerys Stormborn (Nov 19, 2011)

Hunted by sister said:


> I thought the hearings were a couple of days ago?
> 
> //HbS



There have been hearings but AFAIK no vote yet.  And there's actually several levels of voting that need to happen too.  (The process for getting a bill passed in Congress is kind of long, it actually amazes me that _anything_ ever gets signed into law.)  First, the House Judiciary Committee (where those hearings you were mentioned were held) has to vote on it.  If it passes that vote, it then has to be voted on by the full House.  Then it gets sent over to the Senate, where it starts in a committee just like it did in the House.  Then it gets voted on by the full Senate.  Then, if the Senate made any amendments to the bill, the Senate and House have to get together to resolve differences between the versions passed by the two chambers.  After making it through all of that, a bill goes to the President's desk to be signed or vetoed.



			
				emROARS said:
			
		

> Everyone was going crazy about this on Tumblr, even the management did a whole 'censorship' thing so everyone would sign.



It isn't just Tumblr.  I saw something about it on LJ as well, I've heard that Twitter did something similar. and Mozilla has a note about it as one of the things that comes up when you go to Google's page through Firefox.  And Google apparently took a full-page ad about it out in the New York Times.  Pretty much every Internet company ever is making sure people know about this.


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 20, 2011)

I do not think we have too much to worry about now that I think about it. Obama has said he is is a supporter of Net neutrality and with the election coming up he really cant afford a mistake this big. 

Not to mention that with congresses aproval ratings at an all time of of 9% (Which im damn sure will go down to 5% at least if this thing goes through.) I dont think they can afford mistakes ethier.

Plus pepole are obviously *NOT* happy about this. It would afffect voters alot and many jobs would be lost.

So while there is a possiblility of this bill passing, its lilkely not going to pass.

Still by all means sign all pettions and contact your congressman and all that.
It will make it even less likely to pass.


----------



## Jersey Shore Jesus (Nov 20, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Stalin (Nov 20, 2011)

There' too much corporate power against this to pass actually.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Nov 20, 2011)

And on the Flip side of that Stalin "Corporations have a vested interest in seeing this Bill passed".


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2011)

Stalin said:


> There' too much corporate power against this to pass actually.


And its primary supporters in the House are pulling out.


----------



## TSC (Nov 20, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And its primary supporters in the House are pulling out.



got link for this?


----------



## Romanticide (Nov 20, 2011)

Well, the hearing is soon, and no opponents of the bill are allowed in Congress. 

Hopefully it won't pass.


----------



## Gino (Nov 20, 2011)

I can't wait the hear the answer......


----------



## Mintaka (Nov 20, 2011)

What the fucking hell?

Are they really allowed to keep the opposition out like this!?


----------



## TSC (Nov 20, 2011)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> Well, the hearing is soon, and no opponents of the bill are allowed in Congress.



wait WTF? What you mean no opponents allowed in Congress? Are they really trying to attempt to get this pass, going as far as kicking out the bill opposing rep and senate members??

Congress needs serious overhaul.


----------



## Mist Puppet (Nov 20, 2011)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> Well, the hearing is soon, *and no opponents of the bill are allowed in Congress.*


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 20, 2011)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> Well, the hearing is soon, and no opponents of the bill are allowed in Congress.
> 
> Hopefully it won't pass.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKss2uYpih8[/YOUTUBE]

They cant do that! Thats not fair,thats cheating!

Wait! I have an idea! We should take the internet and push it somewhere else!


----------



## vampiredude (Nov 20, 2011)

Wait there has to be some kind of misunderstanding, perhaps there are several steps in this proces and the opponents enter first in a later stage?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2011)

Won't the opposition get its turn to speak?


----------



## Hatifnatten (Nov 20, 2011)

?Gino? said:


> I can't wait the hear the answer......


If you're not gonna hear one answer you might as well sell your PC - it would be useless.


----------



## Gino (Nov 20, 2011)

Hatifnatten said:


> If you're not gonna hear one answer you might as well sell your PC - it would be useless.



Yeah I know.......


----------



## Toroxus (Nov 20, 2011)

SOPA BILL said:
			
		

> To promote prosperity, creativity, entrepreneurship, and innovation by combating the theft of U.S. property, *and for other purposes.*


What. A. Fucking. Surprise.


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 20, 2011)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> Well, the hearing is soon, and *no opponents of the bill are allowed in Congress.*
> 
> Hopefully it won't pass.



I..I'm sorry, but is this even legal?

Seems like the time for the president to use some of his presidential powers.


----------



## Raiden (Nov 20, 2011)

Congress is going to get hit so hard in next year's election. Forget gerrymandering  .


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 20, 2011)

Hatifnatten said:


> If you're not gonna hear one answer you might as well sell your PC - it would be useless.



It can store all the stuff you gathered beforehand


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2011)

Has there been any big news coverage of this bill? Or are the supporters suppressing information so the general public doesn't know?


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 20, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Has there been any big news coverage of this bill? Or are the supporters suppressing information so the general public doesn't know?



They are suppressing it for the most part.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 21, 2011)

yeah the news isn't mentioning this shit at all, which is funny. I like how that goes all of these bills like this have been pretty well hidden.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 21, 2011)

Isn't that also against the law? The supporters have been...dear god.


----------



## Final Giku Tenshou (Nov 21, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Isn't that also against the law? The supporters have been...dear god.



Since when were you under the impression lawmakers had to follow their own laws?


----------



## Xion (Nov 21, 2011)

If you're worried about your favorite sites if this thing passes do keep in mind you can access them by IPs still, though the ISPs might send Thought Police to your house for trying to visit the newly blacklisted IPs the MAFIAA doesn't want you to go to.

Thought you could download that latest Lady Gaga song? Ten years mandatory minimum sentence.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 21, 2011)

These people must want to not be elected again. We should burn the fucking congressional building down around them.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 21, 2011)

Low and behold, this stupid piece of legislation also might cause issues with implementing cyber security measures that have been in the works for years. Basically the government is ready to sacrifice their own plans for our security to get more money from their fucking sponsors.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Nov 21, 2011)

... Can we agree that this whole thing is a clusterfuck of Cosmic Proportions.


----------



## Awesome (Nov 21, 2011)

Lol at this being the one thing congress agrees upon.

They don't do shit unless said thing hurts the country, then they agree to it.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 21, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> ... Can we agree that this whole thing is a clusterfuck of Cosmic Proportions.


I've only seen one person come in here and try and say it wasn't. Did you read the part about the program being around that actually goes through and monitors everything sent across the internet and how the people legislating on this thing don't even understand what's being talked about. 

It's embarrassing for the whole country and more so that they're basically sneaking this through because they know some shit like this wouldn't be the kind of thing that could go uncontested. 

This will actually put America behind when it comes to internet security, information sharing and everything. It sounds like they're basically trying to suppress the ability of the people to communicate with one another easily too because that will make this easier to do. 

Not to mention its causing our already stupid looking government to look far more idiotic.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Nov 21, 2011)

... I agree CTK, but you have to understand that most of the internet Bills being passed are Classified as National Security Protocals and as such that includes spying on Private Citizens - thank u (Canada, NSA, and DHS) and Digital Piracy is covered under some terrorism subcaluse I forgot the bills actual name


----------



## rac585 (Nov 21, 2011)

The only solution is to move to canada.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 21, 2011)

It doesn't matter where you live. The consequences will be worldwide, as servers for many, many info websites are in US, many people creating content work from US, most of the content sharing websites are in US.

For example, Youtube will be shut down almost entirely, and lose over 90% of it's content.

//HbS


----------



## soulnova (Nov 21, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> ... Can we agree that this whole thing is a clusterfuck of Cosmic Proportions.



I have just the pic for that.





Seriously, when is this going "to get solved/the end of the world as we know it"?


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 21, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZT5U11DyX8[/YOUTUBE]

Filibuster anyone?


----------



## Daenerys Stormborn (Nov 21, 2011)

Even one of the industry groups that originally supported this bill, the Business Software Alliance, is now questioning it:

They supported a similar earlier Senate bill, the PROTECT-IP Act, but seem to be concerned about the overly broad language in this bill.  They aren't asking for it not to be passed, but rather for Congress to make the language more precise so that it would target only "egregious actors" and be less abusable.


----------



## vernamon (Nov 21, 2011)

Government and the major corporations just needs to keep their greedy hands off of the internet entirely. If this bill happens to pass there likely is going to be a revolution maybe even a civil war it goes against so many rights. The government as far as I can tell does not care about its people. The US is supposed to be a "free" country however we are quickly losing that freedom upon which we were built.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 21, 2011)

vernamon said:


> Government and the major corporations just needs to keep their greedy hands off of the internet entirely. If this bill happens to pass there likely is going to be a revolution maybe even a civil war it goes against so many rights. The government as far as I can tell does not care about its people. The US is supposed to be a "free" country however we are quickly losing that freedom upon which we were built.




....


----------



## vernamon (Nov 21, 2011)

I say if this bill passes every single person needs to rally up and storm the front doors of Washington and take over and set up a better Government one thats free of corruption one where the people have a say in what passes and a right to information for free no more secrecy either.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 21, 2011)

...you're new to this world aren't you, vernamon?


----------



## vernamon (Nov 21, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...you're new to this world aren't you, vernamon?



to this site pretty much however i've been reading on a different forum posting about the SOPA bill thats trying to be passed and because of that had to jump in about it.


----------



## Deepest Tempest (Nov 21, 2011)

*An Internet lockdown?*

Will I no longer be able to visit foreign websites to make purchases or view media on them?  I buy music online from places like Suntrip Records or Psyshop and preview new upcoming music as well.  I hope this bill is not as people make it out to be, as I want to continue to visit foreign websites about the music I love.


----------



## vernamon (Nov 21, 2011)

Deepest Tempest said:


> Will I no longer be able to visit foreign websites to make purchases or view media on them?  I buy music online from places like Suntrip Records or Psyshop and preview new upcoming music as well.  I hope this bill is not as people make it out to be, as I want to continue to visit foreign websites about the music I love.



The bill will get rid of just that the bill is vague and allows those corporations to do whatever they feel like. If you like youtube say goodbye to it say goodbye to everything you know and come to love about the internet.


----------



## Deepest Tempest (Nov 21, 2011)

*Here comes the Dark Ages...*



vernamon said:


> The bill will get rid of just that the bill is vague and allows those corporations to do whatever they feel like. If you like youtube say goodbye to it say goodbye to everything you know and come to love about the internet.


I might as well appreciate what I already have in my music collection now once this bill is signed into law.   I will not enjoy the "Dark Ages" with cheesy American electro-house, pop rock, or pop rap ruling here now.  I will continue to seek out oldskool '90s trance, Goa, and progressive house in some way or form, no matter what the American government does to change the Internet.


----------



## vernamon (Nov 21, 2011)

Deepest Tempest said:


> I might as well appreciate what I already have in my music collection now once this bill is signed into law.   I will not enjoy the "Dark Ages" with cheesy American electro-house, pop rock, or pop rap ruling here now.  I will continue to seek out oldskool '90s trance, Goa, and progressive house in some way or form, no matter what the American government does to change the Internet.



there's bound to be a revolution if it were to get passed. Just the question is who's gonna be the one setting up the new government I have a great idea for how a government the perfect government should be and set up so things like this won't ever happen again. The land of the free will be free once again.


----------



## Deepest Tempest (Nov 21, 2011)

vernamon said:


> there's bound to be a revolution if it were to get passed. Just the question is who's gonna be the one setting up the new government I have a great idea for how a government the perfect government should be and set up so things like this won't ever happen again. The land of the free will be free once again.


Yeah, there is now way such a thing like that will exist forever.  Power to the people, freedom will always reign supreme. The government can suck it down!


----------



## vernamon (Nov 21, 2011)

Like I said I have ideas extremely good ideas that are fair and uncorrectable that everyone should be happy with except those who are just power hungry no matter what you do. Problem is if that time comes will I be even noticed at all for setting up such a government?


----------



## TenshiNeko (Nov 22, 2011)

We do not forgive censorship.
We do not forget the denial of our free rights as human beings.~_anonymous_




Have someone ready to take down the names of every SOB that votes in favor of this


----------



## vernamon (Nov 22, 2011)

TenshiNeko said:


> We do not forgive censorship.
> We do not forget the denial of our free rights as human beings.~_anonymous_
> 
> 
> ...



Lolz agreed 99999999999999999999999999999999999.99999999999999999999999999999% don't think I have enough numbers but still this is a revolution waiting to happen and I want a part of creating a perfect system if word can get out about me.


----------



## Bleach (Nov 22, 2011)

I'd be very surprised if this actually passed. Would lose my false hope in this country as well


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 22, 2011)

vernamon, there won't be any revolution is this goes through. No offence, but US people are just like that. They will roll over and do as they're told, and let higher ups do their thing. They have been fucked with a huge black dildo for a while now, and no real protests rose. Meanwhile, their government has switched to a bigger sized dildo a couple of times by now. 

Protests like "Occupy Wall Street" are a huge waste of time. Do they think this will accomplish anything? No, bankers are just laughing at these people. They have to actually do something, blow shit up, start killing these greedy fucks. 

But America is not yet ready. Makes me remember a story I heard some time ago, about prisoners. These people were fine with being locked up, the rigorous discipline, their freedoms taken away, but when sweet bread disappeared from prison meals, there was almost a fucking riot, the only reason why it didn't happen was because the sweet bread returned. America is all like that. I wonder what is their sweet bread.

//HbS


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 22, 2011)

Hunted by sister said:


> vernamon, there won't be any revolution is this goes through. No offence, but US people are just like that. They will roll over and do as they're told, and let higher ups do their thing. They have been fucked with a huge black dildo for a while now, and no real protests rose. Meanwhile, their government has switched to a bigger sized dildo a couple of times by now.
> 
> Protests like "Occupy Wall Street" are a huge waste of time. Do they think this will accomplish anything? No, bankers are just laughing at these people. They have to actually do something, blow shit up, start killing these greedy fucks.
> 
> ...



Pretty much this. The reason why the government is able to do this and has been trying to do it for the last few years is because most people either think it won't effect them or because they don't pay attention and are too happy to watch Jersey Shore or listen to celebrity news than actual news. 

But the sad thing is that the government is making the country worse and putting it further behind. We still have more debt talks that aren't working, isn't it funny that while Congress can't work together on that they're somehow doing this when this isn't nearly as important or damning? 

That should tell you something right there.


----------



## TSC (Nov 22, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Pretty much this. The reason why the government is able to do this and has been trying to do it for the last few years is because most people either think it won't effect them or because they don't pay attention and are too happy to watch Jersey Shore or listen to celebrity news than actual news.
> 
> But the sad thing is that the government is making the country worse and putting it further behind. We still have more debt talks that aren't working, isn't it funny that while Congress can't work together on that they're somehow doing this when this isn't nearly as important or damning?
> 
> That should tell you something right there.



I totally agree.


----------



## Wolfarus (Nov 22, 2011)

Bleach said:


> I'd be very surprised if this actually passed. Would lose my false hope in this country as well



You're still at the false hope stage? 

Man, i wish i could be that young and innocent again


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 22, 2011)

Even if the bill does pass I can see it having enough changes to where it wont be nearly as bad as it is now.

Btw how long would it take to read 20,000 names? Thats how many the filibuster for sopa already has on it.


----------



## Sunrider (Nov 22, 2011)

Goshinki said:


> Btw how long would it take to read 20,000 names? Thats how many the filibuster for sopa already has on it.


I wonder if that could be aired? I hope so, I'd love to watch.


----------



## Xion (Nov 22, 2011)

Goshinki said:


> Even if the bill does pass I can see it having enough changes to where it wont be nearly as bad as it is now.
> 
> Btw how long would it take to read 20,000 names? Thats how many the filibuster for sopa already has on it.



Well the really shitty thing about U.S. politics...

Aside from being controlled by corporations. Besides the two-party system where both parties pretty much shaft people the same way. And besides the anti-intellectual, emotive bullshit and dollars that drives campaigns and candidates.

...besides all that, is the fact that if a bill doesn't pass in the U.S.A. you can essentially sneak bits and pieces of it onto other bills that "need" to pass (like defense budget bills).

Our Founding Fathers would roll over in their graves at the thought of the current United States of CorporateJesus.


----------



## vernamon (Nov 22, 2011)

Xion said:


> Well the really shitty thing about U.S. politics...
> 
> Aside from being controlled by corporations. Besides the two-party system where both parties pretty much shaft people the same way. And besides the anti-intellectual, emotive bullshit and dollars that drives campaigns and candidates.
> 
> ...



Agreed considering that a good majority of americans don't care what the hell happens and don't realize they can actually do something about it called revolution its our natural right as human beings. If we don't like something we have a right to change it however us americans are way to lazy to do so nor even know about such a bill.


----------



## Superrazien (Nov 22, 2011)

MbS said:


> If I was losing a profit I was rightly owned or worse my job I?d be pissed and do everything within my power to sop it. Opponents of this bill course resort to scare mongering as usual with ?potential? consequences that are world ending to shore up support, anything less wouldn?t bat an eyelid.
> 
> Honestly I don?t know which side to believe. I suggest people should look further in to this before lapping it up with one or two articles.


----------



## vernamon (Nov 22, 2011)

All in favor for revolution to this damned government say I.


----------



## Ryan (Nov 22, 2011)

The thing that I hate most about this sort of event is that it will probably not pass in America, but the publicity it gets gives the US the power to demand compliance from other countries, and some of them do end up implementing those laws. No wonder google and co. are up in this bitch. This will hurt them all.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 22, 2011)

And anywhere that it passes it will automatically hurt jobs because despite what groups like the RIAA say they're not losing much money. 

Even people like me who have been pirating things since the early days still buy stuff sometimes and we still have a conscious for the most part. I've bought like 23 books this week thanks to my Kindle and I still go to the movies which are over priced and I still watch live tv and sometimes go to concerts, that's where a lot of the money is made but they won't say that shit.


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 22, 2011)

The SOPA filibuster now has 60,000 names. Thats gonna take a *long* time to read.


----------



## TenshiNeko (Nov 22, 2011)

Goshinki said:


> The SOPA filibuster now has 60,000 names. Thats gonna take a *long* time to read.



I wanna watch this happen  

...well, maybe I don't want to watch the WHOLE thing 

CSPAN, maybe? bring some popcorn


----------



## vernamon (Nov 22, 2011)

NEEDS MOAR NAMES!! the longer the better and by all means lets just hope this filibuster will kill that  bill and any other's of the like.


----------



## hehey (Nov 22, 2011)

...cant they just vote to end the filibuster if they ahve more than 60 supporters?


----------



## vernamon (Nov 22, 2011)

hehey said:


> ...cant they just vote to end the filibuster if they ahve more than 60 supporters?



Not too sure but possible knowing how rules change so much in congress its ridiculous just to fit their greedy needs.


----------



## Utopia Realm (Nov 22, 2011)

Goshinki said:


> The SOPA filibuster now has 60,000 names. Thats gonna take a *long* time to read.



Each of those on the list should pirate some shit just to rub it in the faces of some of these ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) corporations.


----------



## vernamon (Nov 22, 2011)

Utopia Realm said:


> Each of those on the list should pirate some shit just to rub it in the faces of some of these ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) corporations.



I already due and the reason is cause i can't get no job to buy all of what they make so to support them in another way I download and enjoy the entertainment they make as it really should be.


----------



## Red (Nov 22, 2011)

I hope this entire clusterfuck of government corruption brings our generation back to reality. These types of bills have passed relatively under the radar. In the past the only people who were outraged by these types of bills were internet nerds who are for the most part ineffectual in politics. Now that the bill is overtly targeting casual internet users who like their Facebook, funny videos from YouTube and other popular sites that exchange information the more mainstream population are now realizing what is at stake here and just how little their government representatives and legislatures care about the opinion of the masses. 

Last I checked, which was a couple days ago at the very least sixty thousand people have signed petitions against the bill and thousands more are expected. Even the laypeople who haven't signed the petition for whatever reason are universally against it. This isn't the mob mentality of the uneducated masses, people who are against it make logical and compelling arguments about why this is a bad idea. Even people who have no knowledge of electronics past the bare necessity needed to check their e-mail think this is a bad idea. Even people who do not use the internet think this is a bad idea because it goes against the popularly touted notion of freedom of speech and free exchange of information.

If at the end of all this, despite evidence about why this is wrong and despite the strong dislike and opposition from the masses this bill goes through then this will be a clear illustration of how little our elected leaders care for us or factor our wants and needs into their decision making. People have been saying for a long time about how the American government has sold it's soul to multinational corporations but this is going to be the most explicit proof that this is true.


----------



## vernamon (Nov 22, 2011)

Red said:


> I hope this entire clusterfuck of government corruption brings our generation back to reality. These types of bills have passed relatively under the radar. In the past the only people who were outraged by these types of bills were internet nerds who are for the most part ineffectual in politics. Now that the bill is overtly targeting casual internet users who like their Facebook, funny videos from YouTube and other popular sites that exchange information the more mainstream population are now realizing what is at stake here and just how little their government representatives and legislatures care about the opinion of the masses.
> 
> Last I checked, which was a couple days ago at the very least sixty thousand people have signed petitions against the bill and thousands more are expected. Even the laypeople who haven't signed the petition for whatever reason are universally against it. This isn't the mob mentality of the uneducated masses, people who are against it make logical and compelling arguments about why this is a bad idea. Even people who have no knowledge of electronics past the bare necessity needed to check their e-mail think this is a bad idea. Even people who do not use the internet think this is a bad idea because it goes against the popularly touted notion of freedom of speech and free exchange of information.
> 
> If at the end of all this, despite evidence about why this is wrong and despite the strong dislike and opposition from the masses this bill goes through then this will be a clear illustration of how little our elected leaders care for us or factor our wants and needs into their decision making. People have been saying for a long time about how the American government has sold it's soul to multinational corporations but this is going to be the most explicit proof that this is true.



Agreed however lets just hope most if not all of them will rally up and do something physical. These Occupy movements aren't doing shit we need an overall take over of the buildings tie them and everyone in government and begin anew that won't let this happen again.


----------



## Stalin (Nov 22, 2011)

Once google and facebook said they were against this bill, I had a feeling it wouldn't pass/


----------



## vernamon (Nov 22, 2011)

Stalin said:


> Once google and facebook said they were against this bill, I had a feeling it wouldn't pass/



Have you not been up to date about this bill? Yes they are against it a lot of people and companies are however congress did not allow anyone who opposed the bill to be in the hearings as of late. Google was the only one there to speak out about it. I dare say let not only the US citizens to rally against the government but many other corrupt government run countries and let us together build a stronger better freer world. We have the right as the true kings/queens of our rightful countries to bring about such a revolution.


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 22, 2011)

Microsoft and apple pull support from SOPA


Booyah.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 22, 2011)

vernamon said:


> Have you not been up to date about this bill? Yes they are against it a lot of people and companies are however congress did not allow anyone who opposed the bill to be in the hearings as of late. Google was the only one there to speak out about it. I dare say let not only the US citizens to rally against the government but many other corrupt government run countries and let us together build a stronger better freer world. We have the right as the true kings/queens of our rightful countries to bring about such a revolution.


...dude. People aren't going to rebel over this. SOPA is losing support day by day. At this rate, it won't be able to get through the hearing committees. Calling for rebellion and revolution over THIS of all things?


----------



## vernamon (Nov 22, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...dude. People aren't going to rebel over this. SOPA is losing support day by day. At this rate, it won't be able to get through the hearing committees. Calling for rebellion and revolution over THIS of all things?



This is the tip of the iceberg we need it badly look at how many people are without any kind of housing and jobs. The government is showing what it sees as priority over everything else that HAS to be done. No jobs means these businesses are losing the money guess they don't care cause they have all the money in the world and want more when so many can't make ends meet. This greed has got to stop our freedoms need to be fully protected.


----------



## TSC (Nov 23, 2011)

Goshinki said:


> Microsoft and apple pull support from SOPA
> 
> 
> Booyah.



yeah if they pulled out, it's over. SOPA won't pass.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 23, 2011)

I think Charter Digital is pulling out too.


----------



## Wolfarus (Nov 23, 2011)

Glad to see that the bill, as it stands now, most likely wont pass. Dosnt mean that a watered down version wont come back, though. 

So not exactly out of the woods yet


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 23, 2011)

This bill has been getting pushed on us since 2007 in different ways.


----------



## vernamon (Nov 23, 2011)

We don't need any kind of form of the bill leave the internet alone. We the people are the kings of our country we say what's acceptable and whats not not these so called higher ups who have one thing on their mind and thats money.


----------



## hehey (Nov 23, 2011)

Wolfarus said:


> Glad to see that the bill, as it stands now, most likely wont pass. ]


What is this based on exactly?

is there some news that i missed?


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 23, 2011)

hehey said:


> What is this based on exactly?
> 
> is there some news that i missed?



Basically some of the big name companys that had supported the bill like microsoft have finally realized what a dumb idea this bill is and have decided to pull out.

Having microsoft leave the support for the bill is a *HUGE* step forward for our side. I think apple has also pulled support as well which really helps.

I admit its still possible that it might pass, but the odds of it passing are going down day by day.

EDIT; they also lost adobes supprt as well.


----------



## vernamon (Nov 23, 2011)

Goshinki said:


> Basically some of the big name companys that had supported the bill like microsoft have finally realized what a dumb idea this bill is and have decided to pull out.
> 
> Having microsoft leave the support for the bill is a *HUGE* step forward for our side. I think apple has also pulled support as well which really helps.
> 
> ...



Which is good however even if this bill dies there's bound to be more much similar unless we the people find a way to overpower them to let them know we won't give in to such corporations with their greed they make more than enough as it is and piracy will always exist so long as the poor exist. Give people jobs and then maybe they will make money as long as the price is right and people can efficiently live without any worries about losing their housing, feeding the family, losing their jobs...etc....


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 23, 2011)

Then its decided. We kill them all.


----------



## vernamon (Nov 23, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Then its decided. We kill them all.



Exactly the only way things will be able to change however if i'm gonna be able to help I'm to change things after the takeover i'm gonna need to somehow be picked up by someone to do so or have some kind of contact with me. Of course I will need help with other area's in what to do. Power to the people not a select few to run all area's.


----------



## Fighting Kitsune (Nov 23, 2011)

Goshinki said:


> Microsoft and apple pull support from SOPA
> 
> 
> Booyah.


Thank goodness.


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 23, 2011)

Obama said he will veto this bill.http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-v...eto-resolution-repealing-net-neutrality-rules

Game.Set.Match


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 23, 2011)

a group of people need to storm congress to remind those idiots that the US Gov't is run _by the people_ and _for the people._, not _by corporations, for corporations._


----------



## Karsh (Nov 23, 2011)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> a group of people need to storm congress to remind those idiots that the US Gov't is run _by the people_ and _for the people._, not _by corporations, for corporations._



But in the U.S., corporations are people too now


----------



## Bleach (Nov 24, 2011)

KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!!!

but it's dead already...KEEP KILLING IT!

If it did pass I'm pretty sure the entire internet would rage and a giant clusterfucks of fucks would be fucking everything up.


----------



## Muk (Nov 24, 2011)

if it did pass, a hell a lot of hackers would be rampaging through the web ruining it for everyone


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 24, 2011)

Goshinki said:


> Obama said he will veto this bill.http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-v...eto-resolution-repealing-net-neutrality-rules
> 
> Game.Set.Match



Why do people keep linking to this? That bill has nothing to do with SOPA and Obama has said that he'd pass any copyright authorization bill that came to his desk.

Also



For those of you that don't grasp the serious nature of this


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 24, 2011)

Inuhanyou said:


> Why do people keep linking to this? That bill has nothing to do with SOPA and Obama has said that he'd pass any copyright authorization bill that came to his desk.
> 
> Also
> 
> ...


That sounds just like the same bill, prove what you're saying. 

Not only that but many of the people commenting on that article seem to not even understand that net neutrality is internet freedom, they think Obama is banning freedom on the internet. It's funny how fucking stupid people are.

More over, the FCC regulation makes SOPA illegal:



> The FCC’s  net-neutrality regulations prevent Internet service providers from  slowing down or speeding up access to websites. Wireless carriers are  banned from blocking lawful websites or applications that compete with  their services.


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 24, 2011)

So the odds of this thing actully passing are lower than 50 % right?
I mean with all the oposition and the bill lossing more support and all that. Not to mention with the elections coming up the last thing they want to do is break the internet.


----------



## vernamon (Nov 24, 2011)

The US Government needs to be put in its place yea The US may have created it however because its widely used and because of net nuetrality it does not need anything of this sort. There's bound to be bills like SOPA and the already passed PIPA. We need to killl ANY and ALL of these bills from popping up. If anything yea some regulation however deep deep investigation before anything is done.


----------



## Guru (Nov 24, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PaoLy7PHwk[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 24, 2011)

Well now the same groups are pulling back and telling Congress that this is a jobs bill, they're going to put their weight in with the Protect IP Act, which is just as bad. The funny thing is that this bill will actually halt job creation not help it. 

I would like to see any Republicans sit there now and tell us how corporations are "doing the right thing" and deserve to be counted as people too.


----------



## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Nov 24, 2011)

I knew SOPA was a stupid idea ever since I saw the name.

It means garbage in Swedish. Not just garbage, but "piece of garbage". It's something you'd call someone or something that is... Well... Garbage...

It's great to see it being resisted. 

*is a Pirate Party voter in Sweden*


----------



## Goshinki (Nov 24, 2011)

and yet ANOTHER blow to SOPA.


----------



## vernamon (Nov 24, 2011)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> I knew SOPA was a stupid idea ever since I saw the name.
> 
> It means garbage in Swedish. Not just garbage, but "piece of garbage". It's something you'd call someone or something that is... Well... Garbage...
> 
> ...



Good to see so many are against this thing even though the origin is in the US. Makes me happy that the world is trying to rally against the US for a law they try to be passing one way or another. I say a new world order is needed one giving people the power not individuals nor corporations.


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 24, 2011)

vernamon said:


> Good to see so many are against this thing even though the origin is in the US. Makes me happy that the world is trying to rally against the US for a law they try to be passing one way or another. *I say a new world order is needed one giving people the power not individuals nor corporations.*



Is this your answer everytime the gov't does something you don't like?

From what I have read of your posts up to this one, you have provided nothing remotely useful or otherwise _relevant_ to this thread, so please, shut the hell up.


----------



## vernamon (Nov 24, 2011)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> Is this your answer everytime the gov't does something you don't like?
> 
> From what I have read of your posts up to this one, you have provided nothing remotely useful or otherwise _relevant_ to this thread, so please, shut the hell up.



I say what I do because there's a valid reason. Look at the entire history deep into. The government is taking the bill of rights and tearing it apart like it doesn't matter. They make more money than the common person I tell you is that fair? Do you want these corporations to continue tell you what you can and can't do? Also look where the economy is since it begun has the government done ANYTHING to make it better? The US was built upon the idea of freedom but we don't have that freedom anymore. We all have the right to be free so long as it doesn't violate another person in any way. Right now is the time to change things for the people give us the TRUE freedom back that we rightly deserve. So many are out of work me included and cannot get any help no matter what. The internet deserves to have freedom of everything. Everything is based upon a choice. Many who pirate are generally no more than underserved customers who have to decide carefully what to buy if they have the money. There's too many of us out of work and do you see that work being created with the current situation at hand? They are trying to pass this bill now saying its for 'jobs' when it is clear that its not. The government has way too many secrets that need to be made public but no they refuse just because they can. I'm sorry you have such a narrow mind thats been brainwashed by the government and corporate greed.


----------



## seastone (Nov 24, 2011)

Just wondering, the supporters of the bill. Do they think that the protesters despite being experts on the topic are either for piracy or just fear-mongers? 

About past bills that dealt with tools to fight piracy. Did companies like Facebook,Google, Mozilla Firefox etc make a big deal about that as well?


----------



## A. Waltz (Nov 24, 2011)

did this bill pass yet ?

cuz i was looking for a website that would have FMA episodes and it said that some have been removed and censored by some bill..

here's the link..



just scroll down




> In response to a complaint we received under the , we have removed 2 result(s) from this page. If you wish, you may  that caused the removal(s) at ChillingEffects.org.



or is that some other bill..

eh its probably unrelated


----------



## vernamon (Nov 24, 2011)

MaskedMenace said:


> Just wondering, the supporters of the bill. Do they think that the protesters despite being experts on the topic are either for piracy or just fear-mongers?
> 
> About past bills that dealt with tools to fight piracy. Did companies like Facebook,Google, Mozilla Firefox etc make a big deal about that as well?



That i'm not sure on however I am led to believe that the government was rather discreet about the other bills. What is a government without its people? If you've been reading my posts on what needs to be done just so bills like this stop all together. The government these days don't care about its people no more they lie when they say they do always been like that.


----------



## vernamon (Nov 24, 2011)

AznKuchikiChick said:


> did this bill pass yet ?
> 
> cuz i was looking for a website that would have FMA episodes and it said that some have been removed and censored by some bill..
> 
> ...




it hasn't passed yet however it does affect it all the same its ridiculous. Things like this should be shared its entertainment many people don't have access to money because there ain't no jobs to make the money in the first place. Its about corporate greed they don't want you to watch anything unless you give them an arm and a leg and your soul.


----------



## Mintaka (Nov 24, 2011)

AznKuchikiChick said:


> did this bill pass yet ?
> 
> cuz i was looking for a website that would have FMA episodes and it said that some have been removed and censored by some bill..
> 
> ...


The digital MILLENNIUM ((hint hint)) copyright act is from the early 2000's I think.


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 24, 2011)

vernamon said:


> I say what I do because there's a valid reason. Look at the entire history deep into. The government is taking the bill of rights and tearing it apart like it doesn't matter.


so are you talking about the gov't as a whole at each and every level, or just a few?


> They make more money than the common person I tell you is that fair?


The higher up you are on the ladder, the more money you make. Whether you're working at a fast-food restaraunt, or in a multi-national corporation, that's how it works. 



> Do you want these corporations to continue tell you what you can and can't do?


If you'd bother to read the first page instead of using this as an excuse to push your "anti-world gov'ts" agenda, then you'd know I'm against this bill.



> Also look where the economy is since it begun has the government done ANYTHING to make it better?



You want me to look back at the US economy since the US came into existence, and then you want me to verify if it's gotten any better? The economy has its ups and downs. It's exactly like an individual's life. There are good times and there are bad times. When it's bad, you grow a fucking pair and tough it out. 



> The US was built upon the idea of freedom but we don't have that freedom anymore. We all have the right to be free so long as it doesn't violate another person in any way.


Which type of freedom are you trying to advocate here? _Absolute freedom?_. If you want that, go live in the wilderness. Otherwise, there is no such thing as _absolute freedom_ in a civilized society, and there never has been _ever_, and people have seemed to have done relatively fine in spite of that.



> Right now is the time to change things for the people give us the TRUE freedom back that we rightly deserve.


Refer to the above.



> So many are out of work me included and cannot get any help no matter what.


And so am I, but I grew a damn pair after my first rejection when I was 16, and I continue to _actively look for a job_. Do I occasionally complain? Yes, but I still look for jobs instead of sitting on my ass and expecting the gov't to pay of my bills and student loans for me. 



> The internet deserves to have freedom of everything.


And that's why there are people opposing the bill, everyday Joe's, and corporations such as Google, thus rendering your "the current gov't must be abolished" agenda irrelevant and otherwise ridiculous.



> Everything is based upon a choice. Many who pirate are generally no more than underserved customers who have to decide carefully what to buy if they have the money.


I don't see your point in this, are we talking about budgeting now? Whether or not you're "rich", you still have to budget. Irrelevant.



> There's too many of us out of work and do you see that work being created with the current situation at hand?


So are you actively looking for a job, or are you just waiting for somebody to hold your hand?



> They are trying to pass this bill now saying its for 'jobs' when it is clear that its not.


You mean to tell me in desperation, some politicians are resorting to lying? 

/legasp!



> The government has way too many secrets that need to be made public but no they refuse just because they can.


such as?



> I'm sorry you have such a narrow mind thats been brainwashed by the government and corporate greed.



Yup, because you clearly know so much about me, my stance on the issue, how finely attuned my "bullshit radar" is, and my reasoning on how ridiculous you sound.

The only sorry person here is you. The main reason for that being is because you find _this_ a reason to "revolt against the gov't". I'm betting you're one of those jobless Wall Street protesters who won't look for a job because "the government's trying to keep you down" or some shit similar. What have _you_ contributed to society? What have _you_ done to make a difference aside from complaining? I'm betting nothing.

That all being said and done, I refer to you my previous statement, _shut the hell up_


----------



## vernamon (Nov 24, 2011)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> so are you talking about the gov't as a whole at each and every level, or just a few?
> 
> The higher up you are on the ladder, the more money you make. Whether you're working at a fast-food restaraunt, or in a multi-national corporation, that's how it works.
> 
> ...



If thats how you want it then have it your way. I have been active for someone who's been fresh out of school since 2008 and not a single job is willing to give me a shot at the job none zip zero.  How can I contribute back when there ain't no jobs that are hiring in the first place. I'll just go and end this life so that in the next I can do it all over again because things are worse off with so many more out of work. Oh btw the government owns EVERYTHING!!! therefore there ain't jack shit I can do in the wilderness anyways. You go and take your ass elswhere I don't have the time for your brainwashed brain to tell me what I can and can't do. I have free will and NOBODY is gonna rid me of that ever.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 24, 2011)

vernamon said:


> I have free will and NOBODY is gonna rid me of that ever.



"Nothing was your own except the few cubic centimetres inside your skull."
?George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four


----------



## Mintaka (Nov 24, 2011)

> The only sorry person here is you. The main reason for that being is because you find _this_  a reason to "revolt against the gov't". I'm betting you're one of those  jobless Wall Street protesters who won't look for a job because "the  government's trying to keep you down" or some shit similar. What have _you_ contributed to society? What have _you_ done to make a difference aside from complaining? I'm betting nothing.


Uhh the OWS people are trying to make a difference.

Whether they are or not is a different story however...


----------



## Violent-nin (Nov 24, 2011)

Guru said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PaoLy7PHwk[/YOUTUBE]



Such a great old school track.


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 24, 2011)

Mintaka said:


> Uhh the OWS people are trying to make a difference.
> 
> Whether they are or not is a different story however...



I never said they weren't _trying_ to make a difference. 

But based on what several of my involved friends told me, the majority of them seem to be jobless college students who can't pay off whatever shit they got themselves into and feel the gov't needs to pay off their debts or S.S.S.

Vernamon on the other hand is just being completely opportunistic.


----------



## butcher50 (Nov 24, 2011)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> I never said they weren't _trying_ to make a difference.
> 
> But based on what several of my involved friends told me, the majority of them seem to be jobless college students who can't pay off whatever shit they got themselves into and feel the gov't needs to pay off their debts or S.S.S.
> 
> Vernamon on the other hand is just being completely opportunistic.



what about the gov't creating the death-trap conditions which lead to jobless college students getting themselves knee-deep in shit in the first place ?

the gov't not wanna pay off anyone's debts ? how about not leaving people with no choice but creating these debts in the first place ?


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 24, 2011)

butcher50 said:


> what about the gov't creating the *death-trap conditions* which lead to jobless college students getting themselves knee-deep in shit in the first place ?



elaborate. 

or are you being ironic/sarcastic? 

in any case, it all comes down to how well you budget whatever money you have. 

and one could always join the military. not necessarily the Marines/Army, but just in general.

for instance, i have a $100-$125 "luxury" budget. I count lunch as a luxury, and i buy lunch 2, maybe 3 times a week, usually on work-out days. do i occasionally go for something more exquisite, like Pho? yes, but i make sure i have leftovers from it.  but i digress.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 24, 2011)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> elaborate.
> 
> or are you being ironic/sarcastic?
> 
> ...



Hey 9% of the population just go join the military.
They can totally hire and pay you all.


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 24, 2011)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Hey 9% of the population just go join the military.
> They can totally hire and pay you all.



i don't know if you're mocking me, but yes, yes they can.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 24, 2011)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> i don't know if you're mocking me, but yes, yes they can.



545,789,422,400$ per year on top of what they have now is required for just BASIC pay. 

This is me lowballing the shit of it as well.
You are full of it needless to say.


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 24, 2011)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> 545,789,422,400$ per year on top of what they have now is required for just BASIC pay.
> 
> This is me lowballing the shit of it as well.
> .



It's still not apparent of whether you're trying to prove me wrong or not. 



> You are full of it needless to say



Who here isnt? 

Irrelevant and futile attack on my person. Nice try though.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 24, 2011)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> It's still not apparent of whether you're trying to prove me wrong or not.



Stop trolling you know what it is.

*Spoiler*: __ 



Components 	Funding 	Change, 2009 to 2010
Operations and maintenance 	$283.3 billion 	+4.2%
Military Personnel 	$154.2 billion 	+5.0%
Procurement 	$140.1 billion 	−1.8%
Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation 	$79.1 billion 	+1.3%
Military Construction 	$23.9 billion 	+19.0%
Family Housing 	$3.1 billion 	−20.2%
*Total Spending 	$685.1 billion 	+3.0%*

-------------------------------------------------------
Defense-related expenditure 	2012 Budget request & Mandatory spending[18][19] 	Calculation[20][21]
DOD spending 	$707.5 billion 	Base budget + "Overseas Contingency Operations"
FBI counter-terrorism 	$2.7 billion 	At least one-third FBI budget.
International Affairs 	$5.6?$63.0 billion 	At minimum, foreign arms sales. At most, entire State budget
Energy Department, defense-related 	$21.8 billion 	
Veterans Affairs 	$70.0 billion 	
Homeland Security 	$46.9 billion 	
NASA, satellites 	$3.5?$8.7 billion 	Between 20% and 50% of NASA's total budget
Veterans pensions 	$54.6 billion 	
Other defense-related mandatory spending 	$8.2 billion 	
Interest on debt incurred in past wars 	$109.1?$431.5 billion 	Between 23% and 91% of total interest
_*Total Spending 	$1.030?$1.415 trillion*_


----------



## Mikaveli (Nov 24, 2011)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> i don't know if you're mocking me, but yes, yes they can.



They most definitely cannot and will not.


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## Xaosin (Nov 24, 2011)

Just gonna drop this here assuming it hasn't been posted already.

It's a response from senator Patrick, the bills actual creator and proposer.

It's The* Protect IP Act*, btw. But I'm the sediments are similar. This is proposed by the state Senate, SOPA is the house judiciary version.



> "Thank you for contacting me about the Preventing Real Online Threats to Economic Creativity and Theft of Intellectual Property (PROTECT IP) Act. I appreciate hearing from you on this issue.
> 
> The growth of the digital marketplace is extraordinary and it gives creators and producers new opportunities to reach consumers, but it also brings with it the perils of piracy and counterfeiting. The increased usage and accessibility of the Internet has transformed it into the new Main Street. Internet purchases have become so commonplace that consumers are less wary of online shopping and therefore more easily victimized by online products that are unsafe or stolen. Online piracy and the sale of counterfeit goods cost the American economy billions of dollars. This is unacceptable in any economic climate, but it is devastating today.
> 
> ...


...


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## vernamon (Nov 24, 2011)

Xaosin said:


> Just gonna drop this here assuming it hasn't been posted already.
> 
> It's a response from senator Patrick, the bills actual creator and proposer.
> 
> ...



I say thats a bunch of BS then again I haven't heard of anything promised being done by anyone in politics shame honestly. I don't trust any of them.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 25, 2011)

Lying through his teeth.


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Nov 25, 2011)

Let's find out if it will pass.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 25, 2011)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Stop trolling you know what it is.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



still doesn't prove anything. 

so, now that you can't prove whatever point you're trying to make, I'm a troll?

nice try.

find me an article where it specifically states "US Military no longer hiring" in _any_ phrase or form, and you'll have proven me wrong.


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## Hunted by sister (Nov 25, 2011)

> with an increased ability to protect our intellectual property, which will benefit American consumers, American businesses, and American jobs.


The only ones to benefit from SOPA and PIPA ("pipa" is Polish for "cunt" ) are the corporations. Consumers will obviously lose here, I don't need to explain. Business will become less healthy due to stronger monopolyzation. Jobs will suffer, if websites are shut down. They're definitely not suffering now, industries that are using "common type" IP are growing fast and strong.

//HbS


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 25, 2011)

It's funny how much bullshit they pack into these bills and say its for one thing when it serves the opposite function. I also like how they have these lofty, patriotic seeming preambles explaining what they hope you'll think the bill is about.


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## vernamon (Nov 25, 2011)

AND this is the entire reason why I say rally up to fully put a stop to the BS thats the current government not only just in the US but the entire world. Yea it may seem like i'm being opportunistic but there's a damn good reason for it. The poor get poorer and the rich get richer THIS HAS GOT TO CHANGE!!!! I'm sick and tired in living is such a corrupt world why not have fairness and freedom to do what you want without worry so long as it doesn't trample upon another's in any shape or form. Does anyone here not know Asuma's Teaching to Shikamaru about protecting the king? This is a Naruto forum is it not?


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## Hunted by sister (Nov 25, 2011)

Try not mixing fiction into reality discussions. While they sound good in theory, such teachings are usually too naive. Many people just don't give a darn and look for new ways to exploit others, to get richer.

//HbS


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## Goshinki (Nov 25, 2011)

We should probably spread the news about this bill around the forum. Not everybody on this site goes here or are even aware of the bills existance.


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## Raizen (Nov 25, 2011)

They better leave The Pirate Bay alone


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## Toroxus (Nov 25, 2011)

That'd be the first site to go.


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## Goshinki (Nov 25, 2011)

I think google all ready took care of that.


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## hyakku (Nov 25, 2011)

I am actually interested in something. Knowing the joys of piracy myself, of course this kind of hurts me, but at the same time, I'm wondering what everyone thinks should be done about piracy online. I know there are some of the "internet anarchists" that just think there should be no laws, but at the same time I'm pretty sure shit like the following will continue without some type of limit on piracy, especially as it spread to mobile devices and whatnot. What would you guys want done if you were in content makers shoes? I can't actually think of anything viable as a consumer that I'd find tenable with content maker's goals.


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## TenshiNeko (Nov 25, 2011)

You can still search those sites with google. They just don't suggest them in auto-complete.

I found this interesting bit of info:


> *SOPA Sponsors Break Their Own Law*
> 
> 
> Here?s a classic.
> ...


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## Nemesis (Nov 25, 2011)

hyakku said:


> I am actually interested in something. Knowing the joys of piracy myself, of course this kind of hurts me, but at the same time, I'm wondering what everyone thinks should be done about piracy online. I know there are some of the "internet anarchists" that just think there should be no laws, but at the same time I'm pretty sure shit like the following will continue without some type of limit on piracy, especially as it spread to mobile devices and whatnot. What would you guys want done if you were in content makers shoes? I can't actually think of anything viable as a consumer that I'd find tenable with content maker's goals.



Not sure what is needed but if more and more people think they are entitled to free stuff while the makers don't get money from the loss sales.   What is needed is for someway to catch anyone who pirates a game online for the PC and treat them similar to someone who walks out of a store with the same game..

If someone can't afford a game then they just don't have it or get someone else to buy it for them end of. They don't have the right to go online and get it free while others who work and save money for it pay for the game/film/song etc.

No i don't agree with censoring the internet at all and this bill is beyond retarded but if nothing is done PC gaming could become less and less viable for businesses outside of MMOs.  Companies will pull out like Ubisoft did in the link since they could make more money on consols while not making enough on PCs.  I mean MW2 had 4.1 illegal downloads.  While it sold less than 400k overall on the PC.  A rate of 10/1 Pirate copies to legal.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Nov 25, 2011)

Self entitlement runs America


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 25, 2011)

Nemesis said:


> Not sure what is needed but if more and more people think they are entitled to free stuff while the makers don't get money from the loss sales.   What is needed is for someway to catch anyone who pirates a game online for the PC and treat them similar to someone who walks out of a store with the same game..
> 
> If someone can't afford a game then they just don't have it or get someone else to buy it for them end of. They don't have the right to go online and get it free while others who work and save money for it pay for the game/film/song etc.
> 
> No i don't agree with censoring the internet at all and this bill is beyond retarded but if nothing is done PC gaming could become less and less viable for businesses outside of MMOs.  Companies will pull out like Ubisoft did in the link since they could make more money on consols while not making enough on PCs.  I mean MW2 had 4.1 illegal downloads.  While it sold less than 400k overall on the PC.  A rate of 10/1 Pirate copies to legal.



You act like 400k is some small number for a game. Some games NEVER reach 100k...and then you act as if all piracy happens in the US. There are places where its illegal to buy that game, what are they supposed to do?


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## hyakku (Nov 25, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You act like 400k is some small number for a game. Some games NEVER reach 100k...and then you act as if all piracy happens in the US. There are places where its illegal to buy that game, what are they supposed to do?



...what? What type of stupid logic is that? "Oh, well who gives a fuck if 4 million people stole their shit, they still sold better then most other games?"

And your second reason is even more ridiculous. It's illegal for them to buy it, so they should steal it?? What the fuck? Normally I'm on board with you but idk if you've still got turkey lethargy or what man, but I could think of a host of reasons for piracy that outdo both of those really weak points.

In any case nemesis, I agree with that sentiment, but then I fail to see why this doesn't apply similarly to movies and music to people. For some reason people like us put game makers in their own category (perhaps simply because more internet denizens are likely to be gamers), but in reality they are essentially just media content creators and distributors like movie/music directors, producers and studios.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 25, 2011)

hyakku said:


> ...what? What type of stupid logic is that? "Oh, well who gives a fuck if 4 million people stole their shit, they still sold better then most other games?"
> 
> And your second reason is even more ridiculous. It's illegal for them to buy it, so they should steal it?? What the fuck? Normally I'm on board with you but idk if you've still got turkey lethargy or what man, but I could think of a host of reasons for piracy that outdo both of those really weak points.
> 
> In any case nemesis, I agree with that sentiment, but then I fail to see why this doesn't apply similarly to movies and music to people. For some reason people like us put game makers in their own category (perhaps simply because more internet denizens are likely to be gamers), but in reality they are essentially just media content creators and distributors like movie/music directors, producers and studios.



I just bought Fall Out New Vegas, like a week ago, but it was only 20 dollars. I think games are just as overpriced as movies and music are, maybe moreso so I don't see the point in buying them new unless I really want it. 

But your reason is that some countries choose to censor what games can be bought...so we shouldn't worry about those people? That doesn't make sense. 

Most of what's done to curtail piracy ends up causing those of us that buy the game undue trouble. PC gaming might just have to become a way of the past.


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## Hunted by sister (Nov 25, 2011)

MW2 is a bad example, it's one of those games that are told to be extremely shitty, but you *have* to make sure. It's pointless to pirate a CoD game, as they are mainly multiplayer titles. Based on user rating floating around 3/10, I bet few pirates played this game more than an hour before removing.

//HbS


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## Avix (Nov 25, 2011)

Call of Duty Modern warfare is the shittest game I've ever played.

The campaign mode was horrendous and the online mode is played by gun freaks who play the same maps, with the same friends, and a constantly revolving team of foreigners they like to shout racist abuse at.

The masses love it even though all the modern warfare games are the same game.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 25, 2011)

That's the other thing, I have pirated a lot of stuff only to remove it because its shit. Music and movies (sometimes I don't get fifteen minutes into a movie) So maybe they should make better movies? I mean I will often buy stuff I pirate. Like I bought American Gods after reading part of a pirated copy, same goes for Scott Pilgrim vs the World.



Avix said:


> Call of Duty Modern warfare is the shittest game I've ever played.
> 
> The campaign mode was horrendous and the online mode is played by gun  freaks who play the same maps, with the same friends, and a constantly  revolving team of foreigners they like to shout racist abuse at.
> 
> The masses love it even though all the modern warfare games are the same game.



the new COD wouldn't be so bad if they took all of the air support bullshit out of the multiplayer and let it be less about shooting fish in a barrel.


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## hyakku (Nov 25, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I just bought Fall Out New Vegas, like a week ago, but it was only 20 dollars. I think games are just as overpriced as movies and music are, maybe moreso so I don't see the point in buying them new unless I really want it.
> 
> But your reason is that some countries choose to censor what games can be bought...so we shouldn't worry about those people? That doesn't make sense.
> 
> Most of what's done to curtail piracy ends up causing those of us that buy the game undue trouble. PC gaming might just have to become a way of the past.



I agree with you on all of those points, but I don't see how that leads to the conclusion that we should be allowed to pirate. What I meant was not that we should ignore people in those countries, but rather that it just doesn't make sense to justify theft because some people are less privileged or have less access to things. If we subscribed to that mentality, thievery from anyone poor would always be acceptable.

I agree that methods to stop piracy are archaic and outdated, as are many of the provisions in this bill. What I'm asking is what people think can or should be done in lieu of these measures, as simply allowing piracy is obviously not going to fly, regardless of whether we feel it's morally justified in some instances.  And I think it needs to be beyond something like, "Let's encourage game providers to make cheaper shit." We need tangibles to replace the content of this bill is what I mean.


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## Stalin (Nov 25, 2011)

I don't pirate mainstream films, only foreign films and arthouse fare.


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## Evil Ghost Ninja (Nov 25, 2011)

Stalin said:


> I don't pirate mainstream films, only foreign films and arthouse fare.



I pirate stuff that would be too much to have imported.


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## Stalin (Nov 25, 2011)

Evil Ghost Ninja said:


> I pirate stuff that would be too much to have imported.



I have like a thousand movies I want to see that are from different eras of the 20th century and the 2000's.  I want to get them because there are gonna more movies I have to see in the future. Arthouse publishers probaly charge $30 a dvd. My hunger for film can't afford that shit.


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## hyakku (Nov 25, 2011)

So it seems like there's three camps of issues with this: those pertaining to expression, others to security and finally economics. Internet denizens seem to be primarily concerned with the first, corporations with the final, and only a few truly concerned with the important security issues (Brookings has a dope piece on the security threats that will arise from fracturing the DNS system).

 I don't know enough about web infrastructure to comment on security, and it seems inevitable that the economics behind piracy will continue to be debated. However, with SOPA, even if it does pass, I see a few things that could be changed immediately that would at least mitigate the risk of wanton censorship issues.

1. Removing the provision that allows private parties to essentially seek injunctions against websites. Without a clear definition of what constitutes copyright infringement, one of the biggest risks seems to be allowing companies like Viacom to troll the internet looking for Spongebob gifs to remove sites. This is especially dangerous because it can apply to search engines and payment processors.

2. Since they are going to be classifying copyright infringment as a felony in some cases, there needs to be a nuanced definition of what constitutes a type of "egregious" copyright offense vs. a negligible one. In the latter cases, a new scale should be provided which fines roughly 100% of the original value + a scalable charge that caps. For instance, if you get caught with one song pirated, they should charge you the market rate ($1.29 or so on Itunes) + a fine of say 10 dollars. With each additional song you would add just another $1.29 and possibly .02-.05 cents. This seems to be a rather equitable system and would also encourage companies to avoid going after most users (the legal costs to a company trying to get someone for $500 or so of songs on this system would outweigh the cost of just allowing them to be) while still ensuring that the worst users would get caught (really, if you've got like 50,000 songs you kind of deserve to be caught for that level of asshattery). 

I also think this is important because the bill does cover some important shit (like fake cancer drugs, fake radiobiological software, etc.) and those in the former, "egregious" category guilty of shit like this should be getting charged with felonies. This system could also be applied to games (100% of the value of the game plus another nominal fine amount) although movies would be a bit difficult. I think this would be a decent compromise as well as it would allow things like CTK says, like using pirating for demo purposes. No one keeps a game they hate on their computer for more than a few hours, and if you like it you can buy it without fear of getting hit with a felony.

3. The establishment of some type of technocratic government wing that retools our definition of copyright infringement to be far more narrow and adaptable for today's environment. This would prevent what we see now (uneducated legislators making decisions on things they have no idea on ) while hopefully establishing the semblance of a system that allows for IP to be somewhat secure while preventing random intrusions from the MPAA onto people's hard drives.


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## vernamon (Nov 25, 2011)

On another note has anyone watched the movie "Thrive" if not you ALL need to as it goes into all this talk with everything. We are controlled by an elite few who have control over everything we take them out and take out the government and set up a new one that won't allow this to happen we have our freedom back. We should all be living with free energy by now but no it was all shut out because the major oil and coal companies would be out of business. Watch "Thrive" all the way through if you haven't just have too look past the corniness of the way its done but the points it makes is very essential.


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## Xion (Nov 25, 2011)

The biggest fallacy of all is that:

a.) Companies are losing billions and billions to piracy.
b.) It is preventable without massive repercussions.

a.) The statistics are hugely biased and inflated. Studies showing copyright infringement in some forms increases sales are often ignored. And most importantly a game/movie/etc. downloaded =/= a loss sale. They account for them as so which if hugely ignorant of the fact that most people would not buy such things if it weren't for them being freely available.

b.) Fixing this issue requires deep pack inspection which is a huge violation of privacy rights and also can involve blocking IPs from certain people. That alone is a very dangerous precedent. The day the U.S. does that (or elects Gingrich), I'm moving to Monaco.

Plus it's only an issue if you have a 1960s myopic mindset considering that digital means of distribution and the consumerization and decentralization of music are the new trends for the 21st century. Opposing the impossible is just standing in the way of history.

I'm a content creator and I recognize the need to not rely on old business models and ways of thinking to improve one's business game.

The issue itself is hardly truly a moral one despite what people may think. It's done by so many in so many cohorts that to try to equate it to theft which deprives someone of a physical, unique copy is ludicrous.

It's like saying going 60 mph in a 55 mph is morally wrong. Technically it is legally. But it's time to accept the fact that not all laws and societal aims are meant to be realized in practice. Especially when the damage is so incalculable and tied in so closely with the technology that it's like securing the barn doors after the entire group of horses has left. Like trying to collect every grain of sand that spilled onto the beach from your jar.

It's impossible. A waste of money. Move on to bigger issues (cough...Drug War...cough) if you want more revenue and to actually solve issues.


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## vernamon (Nov 25, 2011)

Does anyone know about the high elite class thats really running the show here? Its those who control the money and down to everything else this includes the government itself and why we are in the mess we are in. We should have had free energy by now but the people with money shut them down. Explains it in the Movie "Thrive" you could also find information on it at their website  . We need to wake up and smell the roses to whats going on its the reason the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and so many die without food and proper healthcare. Its also the reason why we keep relying on oil and other harmful energy.


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## Dokiz1 (Nov 25, 2011)

hyakku said:


> Soon enough they'll just stop making shit and then people will bitch about that.


what?  



no.


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## Stalin (Nov 25, 2011)

vernamon said:


> Does anyone know about the high elite class thats really running the show here? Its those who control the money and down to everything else this includes the government itself and why we are in the mess we are in. We should have had free energy by now but the people with money shut them down. Explains it in the Movie "Thrive" you could also find information on it at their website  . We need to wake up and smell the roses to whats going on its the reason the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and so many die without food and proper healthcare. Its also the reason why we keep relying on oil and other harmful energy.



You are the mastermind.


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## vernamon (Nov 25, 2011)

Stalin said:


> You are the mastermind.



What's sad is that so many don't and the only way to stop all this if for the mass to wake up and realize they have the power to stop the corruption.


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## Mintaka (Nov 25, 2011)

Ya know vern I was kind of in agreement with you ((on some things)) up until the conspiracy shit.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 25, 2011)

Mintaka said:


> Ya know vern I was kind of in agreement with you ((on some things)) up until the conspiracy shit.


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## vernamon (Nov 25, 2011)

Mintaka said:


> Ya know vern I was kind of in agreement with you ((on some things)) up until the conspiracy shit.



Check out "thrive", Look at the world of today and the past. Nothing has changed things are getting worse. I know it may sound like a conspiracy but its not. People are shut out because it helps them be in control. I've done my Homework if you don't believe me again watch "Thrive" and look into what the narrator has all of his life.


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## Mintaka (Nov 25, 2011)

Actually you have it backward.

I am after them.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 25, 2011)

Mintaka said:


> Actually you have it backward.
> 
> I am after them.



As it should be 


vernamon said:


> Check out "thrive", Look at the world of today and the past. Nothing has changed things are getting worse. I know it may sound like a conspiracy but its not. People are shut out because it helps them be in control. I've done my Homework if you don't believe me again watch "Thrive" and look into what the narrator has all of his life.



Watch

Before?


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## vernamon (Nov 25, 2011)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> As it should be
> 
> 
> Watch
> ...



Heard about it never have didn't really interest me but if you recommend it i'll try to watch it sometime if I can find a download for it.


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## Mintaka (Nov 25, 2011)

vernamon said:


> Check out "thrive", Look at the world of today and the past. Nothing has changed things are getting worse. I know it may sound like a conspiracy but its not. People are shut out because it helps them be in control. I've done my Homework if you don't believe me again watch "Thrive" and look into what the narrator has all of his life.


If I have time I may.

However I remain highly skeptical of this.  If you've done your homework as you say you should be able to link me to statistics, or facts that backup your claims instead of just a video that can claim anything.


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## vernamon (Nov 25, 2011)

Mintaka said:


> If I have time I may.
> 
> However I remain highly skeptical of this.  If you've done your homework as you say you should be able to link me to statistics, or facts that backup your claims instead of just a video that can claim anything.



I understand this. The video is the most in depth so is  . If you want historical people who've been shut out and down because they have found the true source for free energy then one watch the video two let me try to find them so long as I can find the sources again. The video makes many valid historical points that this guy has found. He could have stayed and made a ton of money from what he was born into however he chose a different path to find the truth and he has found it. The facts are also there on that website


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 26, 2011)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> still doesn't prove anything.
> 
> so, now that you can't prove whatever point you're trying to make, I'm a troll?
> 
> ...



They don't do that they "wait till they have an opening"
They can turn down people.


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## vernamon (Nov 27, 2011)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> They don't do that they "wait till they have an opening"
> They can turn down people.



Unfortunately and thankfully I was turned down because I had complications with my lungs that prevented me from getting far and I was not told of any of the things that would have prevented me from joining. Had to keep going to a lung specialist to find out what was specifically wrong and found something out I had a feeling was wrong when I was in elementary school to middle-school.


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## Goshinki (Nov 30, 2011)

So any new info on this piece of crap bill?


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## vernamon (Nov 30, 2011)

Goshinki said:


> So any new info on this piece of crap bill?



in an email I got we have pretty much stopped SOPA however they are pushing PIPA through hard and fast and as quickly as possible. Its a similar bill with a similar setup. Government needs to get smaller not bigger and they need to get their heads out of their asses and help create jobs here in America.


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## Xion (Nov 30, 2011)

hyakku said:


> I don't even really understand what this means. Why would any of that mean that people should be cool with NOT getting paid for their work? You're basically just saying, "Yea, so people get paid less for their shit nowadays because people steal. Life goes on." Again, justifying piracy is fine, but please don't use such stupid logic.



Okay, to start off, mention the name of the person you are quoting. I can't respond (unless that's the point) if I don't know you're replying to me. Luckily I saw this gem.

Now as to you being nonplussed here, it's pretty simple with some examples. iTunes makes loads of money. Consumers like sitting at their computers and getting things with the click of a button or two.

They do not like going to CD stores and standing in line to buy 15 songs that suck and two that they like for $19.99. Similarly, they don't want to go to an online store and get a CD shipped to them for the same. It's time-consuming, expensive, and irrational considering the alternatives.

Straw manning and saying that I think "people should be cool with NOT getting paid" is off base entirely. Old channels of distribution are irrelevant now. If companies cannot innovate, they deserve to die.

Music will never die. Art will never die. People who produce and sell those two will never die. The margins might thin, but that is because the direction technology has moved.

And quite simply we should not be legally or economically obligated to subsidize their failing business models. THAT, is unethical!

And again, downloading is not a lost sale. Calling it "piracy" (like high seas shenanigans) or "theft" (where something cannot be replaced without cost and labor) is simply an emotive tool to appeal to less-intelligent people in order to make a point that they are "losing billions" when in fact that is just statistical dickery.

But your point is so eloquent so please go on.

By the way, I design web sites, create art, create music, engage in photography, and work in modding and game design. 

Is it bad that it's harder to sell stuff through the traditional channels? Ummmm...not really unless you don't know how to change with the times.

There are alternative distribution schemes available. Cutting out the truly immoral and margin-slicing middlemen (that now claim to represent the artists as these companies lose the most, despite giving back little to the creators) only makes it better for the artist and the whole purpose of decentralization allows greater access to the world through one artist's efforts without the major backing of a biased company that could make or break you (which is how it was). Yes people downloading your work without payment can be a little perturbing, but fighting it is a futile effort that wastes resources that can be better spent finding alternate ways to make money, such as through advertising on web sites for your content, low-priced services that consumers love like iTunes, name-your-price downloads, and more that can make someone a very good living if they are willing to put in the effort.

So why you support these monolithic companies is beyond me. Saying you're an artist and feel that way just means you aren't intelligent enough to meet the demands of consumers and probably should accept your lack of sales as punishment instead of stonewalling progress in the name of nostalgia.



			
				hyakko said:
			
		

> That's a pretty stupid opinion. Again, instead of contributing to solutions, too many people just keep burying their heads in the sand and keep trying to pretend like this isn't posing a problem on both ends. When you've got people just straight not making PC games since piracy barely makes it worth shit, something should probably be done. I'm not saying this bill is it, but I never understand why people just keep saying that content makers should deal with it. Soon enough they'll just stop making shit and then people will bitch about that.



Solutions have been proposed. You don't like them. You seem to want to turn the clock back thirty years. To put the genie back in the bottle after it has escaped. That's a truly stupid opinion.

Yes, PC games are not as profitable as they once were. I agree. It's slightly disappointing. But there are alternative ways to make money and you will always have a customer base (see above reasons). 

Trying to turn the clock back though and stop it is not only an exercise in futility, it's stupid and turns many people against you as they see you as being a curmudgeon who doesn't want to adapt, a selfish whore whose only interest is in antiquated profit models. That creates less incentive to buy.

All DRM can be circumvented. All games, books, movies, music, etc. can be downloaded free of charge and with minimal effort.

Accept that. It is impossible to change without turning the world into Super-China and creating a War on Copyright Infringement (which would be probably worse than the already atrocious War on Drugs, which is the greatest debacle of the latter 20th century imo). And even then.

Content makes will never all stop making shit. That argument has no backing. It will become more decentralized and that has spawned many quality games and works. It allows us consumers the ability to become producers without the networking and nepotism game of the big companies. And the latter will always survive as well because the minute one drops out, a market opportunity opens up for others.

Please, stop trying to sound like you have cogent arguments on this issue. You don't. You are standing there grandstanding while the world changes. If you don't adapt to change, you die.

I still see plenty of great movies, games, and music and yet you say it's all dying! Run for the hills! You engage in straw men and hyperbole to support inflated claims made by media conglomerates that could give two shits about the artists in most cases and have been screwing most of them for a long while.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 1, 2011)

... Even if Sopa doesn't get passed by the Senate this round PIPA is going to be passed then all that would need to happen is for SOPA to be added to PIPA next session as an expanion of that bills powers.


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## God (Dec 1, 2011)

Need lose all faith in Congress.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Dec 1, 2011)

PC games market is still the most powerful one, though. Around 45% of market is held by PC, all other platforms have the other half.

SOPA stopped? Good. Now, time for PIPA.

//HbS


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 1, 2011)

SOAP may have been stoped for the moment but in the end it will always slip back onto The Menu.


----------



## soulnova (Dec 1, 2011)

Wha... what's PIPA? o_o!?


----------



## Sunrider (Dec 1, 2011)

soulnova said:


> Wha... what's PIPA? o_o!?


Protect IP Act. Senate version of SOPA.


----------



## soulnova (Dec 1, 2011)

Ghost Rider said:


> Protect IP Act. Senate version of SOPA.



I-, what-, I don't even...


----------



## Hunted by sister (Dec 1, 2011)

Think of it as SOPA 2.0 

//HbS


----------



## Sunrider (Dec 1, 2011)

soulnova said:


> I-, what-, I don't even...


It's less ham-fisted than SOPA, but still rather bad. 

You can read up on it and other legislation .


----------



## Awesome (Dec 1, 2011)

We don't need this shit or PIPA. Deal with shit that actually matters, Congress.


----------



## Goshinki (Dec 1, 2011)

If there was any doubt that Lamar smith has no idea waht he is talking about, read this


He actually thinks infringment is the equivilent of child porn....How the f@ck was this moron elected?!


----------



## Daenerys Stormborn (Dec 1, 2011)

Ghost Rider said:


> Protect IP Act. Senate version of SOPA.



Didn't Sen. Ron Wyden block it though?


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 1, 2011)

Goshinki said:


> How the f@ck was this moron elected?!



The same way, the others were elected; by the voters.


----------



## Sunrider (Dec 1, 2011)

Akatsuki no Tenshi said:


> Didn't Sen. Ron Wyden block it though?


Reading the list of actions, I'm seeing nothing since June, but also nothing showing it being struck down in any definite manner. 

It may have been blocked, but that's no guarantee it's effectively been stopped.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Dec 2, 2011)

Have you guys seen the new anti-piracy ad? I had no idea drugs, gangs, loss of jobs* and child labor were involved when you pirate.


----------



## Gino (Dec 2, 2011)

lol at that dislike bar


----------



## hyakku (Dec 2, 2011)

Xion said:


> Okay, to start off, mention the name of the person you are quoting. I can't respond (unless that's the point) if I don't know you're replying to me. Luckily I saw this gem.
> 
> Now as to you being nonplussed here, it's pretty simple with some examples. iTunes makes loads of money. Consumers like sitting at their computers and getting things with the click of a button or two.
> 
> They do not like going to CD stores and standing in line to buy 15 songs that suck and two that they like for $19.99. Similarly, they don't want to go to an online store and get a CD shipped to them for the same. It's time-consuming, expensive, and irrational considering the alternatives.



I'm not going to bother reading this entire thing having just done an entire report on this bill, and I'm sure your post is filled with assertions that I've claimed media needs to be saved from you evil pirates, etc. Despite the fact that none of that was part of my post, I do need to point out that this old Itunes vs CD debate is something I've heard often and is one of the dumbest fucking arguments I've ever heard. 

First, who the fuck has ever stood in line at a music store? Now tell me how many of those people were doing so past the early 90s. I never understand why people put it like there are hordes of people at your local store that will make it impossible for you to buy a CD. Second, it's not like only JRs sells CDs anymore, you can buy them damn near anywhere, including the internet. Third, most CDs range from 9.99-14.95 in price, otherwise who the fuck would buy the CD instead of just buying the Itunes version and burning it? 

Again, I don't really even see how that argument supported whatever convoluted shit you were spewing as the Itunes model for music isn't some type of revolution; it's actually just a rehashed model of an older framework, just slightly updated for the digital age. Buying single tracks was the norm UNTIL the CD came out, what the fuck are you even talking about with trying to put it like Itunes isn't anything more than a unified platform in which singles can be sold (at least in the music domain. The education domain is another realm entirely). 

I'm not reading the rest of that nonsense, I know it's likely filled with you yelling about how I'm trying to fight evolution (despite having bought one CD in the past decade), am stuck in the past, and how you probably have some type of computer science / programming credentials that make you an expert in these matters like everyone else on the internet.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 2, 2011)

Someone seems mad.


----------



## Bleach (Dec 2, 2011)

Ghost Rider said:


> It's less ham-fisted than SOPA, but still rather bad.
> 
> You can read up on it and other legislation .



I like how at the top of that webpage it says "The easiest way to email your members of Congress" and it points to a Donate button.

Indeed 

Yes it's donating to the website but it's still rather funny


----------



## Hunted by sister (Dec 2, 2011)

It's hilarious and sad at the same time, because it's true.

//HbS


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Dec 2, 2011)

is the genius workaround,brought by MAFIAAFIRE people,going to add as well to my FF 8 as of today.


----------



## Violent-nin (Dec 2, 2011)

Hunted by sister said:


> Have you guys seen the new anti-piracy ad? I had no idea drugs, gangs, loss of jobs* and child labor were involved when you pirate.


----------



## MunchKing (Dec 2, 2011)

Hunted by sister said:


> Have you guys seen the new anti-piracy ad? I had no idea drugs, gangs, loss of jobs* and child labor were involved when you pirate.
> //HbS





That's hilarious. How do they come up with that?


----------



## Xion (Dec 2, 2011)

Hunted by sister said:


> Have you guys seen the new anti-piracy ad? I had no idea drugs, gangs, loss of jobs* and child labor were involved when you pirate.



That just makes me want to pirate and pillage more than ever. 



hyakku said:


> I'm not going to bother reading this entire thing having just done an entire report on this bill, and I'm sure your post is filled with assertions that I've claimed media needs to be saved from you evil...



Abstract: "I'm too lazy and full of my own opinion to bother reading someone else's. I don't feel like actually having to back up my opinion or try to respond to those points, even though I'm in the minority on this issue."

*goes back to watching on VCR and lamenting the loss of Strawberry's*

Hyakku it's pointless discussing with you if you just continue to pick and choose your facts and quotes. You even admitted as such. That's pretty much what the music/movie industry does as well so like minds go together I guess. Basking in ignorance of the world around you.


----------



## Mintaka (Dec 2, 2011)

I hope that joke I put onto the premonition video doesn't get me into to much trouble.


----------



## Goshinki (Dec 2, 2011)

*Colbert Takes On SOPA*


Word is spreading. I always liked that guy.


----------



## hyakku (Dec 2, 2011)

Xion said:


> That just makes me want to pirate and pillage more than ever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



?????

My brain just lost multiple neurons trying to comprehend any of this post. Again, I don't see what opinion (besides the absolutely retarded logic of, "It's unavailable therefore I can steal it" and "Well everyone is doing it so it can't be THAT morally bad") I've expressed that even discusses whether SOPA is merited (in fact, the only post I've suggested anything remotely possible to this is in saying that obviously IP owners need some type of protection, but not this bill). 

The VCR thing? WTF?

But yea bro, you're totally right, the reason I don't want to discuss with you is because your points are so bulletproof, not because I just presented a paper on this shit and am just tired of talking about it.

Also, LMAO, went back and read part of your post. I'm a mafuckinn prophet:



> So why you support these monolithic companies is beyond me. Saying you're an artist and feel that way just means you aren't intelligent enough to meet the demands of consumers and probably should accept your lack of sales as punishment instead of stonewalling progress in the name of nostalgia.



??? I've sure thrown my support behind Viacom, MPAA and RIAA recently.



> Solutions have been proposed. You don't like them. You seem to want to turn the clock back thirty years. To put the genie back in the bottle after it has escaped. That's a truly stupid opinion.



LOL what? You wrote that because so many people pirate, it shouldn't be considered as morally reprehensible as depriving someone as a physical copy, despite basing your entire argument on the fact that digitization and decentralization is going to supplant physical media to become the major medium for these industries in the future. Are you fucking high?



> By the way, I design web sites, create art, create music, engage in photography, and work in modding and game design.



LMAO. 3/3 so far.

If i was going to respond to you, seeing how accurate I was about your opinion without having to read the post has just convinced me not to. Oh, and this little gem sealed it:



> A waste of money. Move on to bigger issues* (cough...Drug War...cough)* if you want more revenue and to actually solve issues.




Incredible. Absolutely incredible. 

"Hey everyone, government shouldn't be involved in telling us what to do with our computers! What they SHOULD be doing is not wasting tax dollars by telling us what to do with our BODIES. YEA!"


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Dec 2, 2011)

The real main reason that the DMCA exists???










> Hypocritical media industry at its finest. Of course, this pales in comparison to companies like Disney, who gladly use works of other creators (i.e. Pinocchio, Snow White, Cinderella, etc) but then after they make their money, use that money to lobby congress to change copyright law to block others from doing the same.






> Yeah, there is no copyright on those works anymore and there never was. It is why other movies of Cinderella or Snow White (Take for example the two movies coming out soon) are allowed to exist. Plus Disney took liberties with the stories and are probably just copyrighting what they added in (Though I could be wrong.. I know about copyright laws but I am not sure what exactly Disney is lobbying for in their copyright wants).





> More like whatever the current age of mickey mouse is +50 years.
> 
> Disney's lobby will never let its copyrights go into the public domain.






> [–]drmoo66 24 points 6 hours ago
> 
> It is excessive.
> In no other industry can you do some work, then milk it the rest of your life.
> ...


----------



## vernamon (Dec 3, 2011)

Anyone heard about the US Senate getting rid of our bill of rights  I'm moving outta this country first chance I get.


----------



## James Bond (Dec 3, 2011)

Hahaha what is that advert about, whoever made that has about as much of a clue as Uwe Boll did.


----------



## Xion (Dec 4, 2011)

hyakku said:


> Incredible. Absolutely incredible.
> 
> "Hey everyone, government shouldn't be involved in telling us what to do with our computers! What they SHOULD be doing is not wasting tax dollars by telling us what to do with our BODIES. YEA!"



I'm against the Drug War. Reading comprehension FTW.

It's a far more serious issue than this.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Dec 4, 2011)

So have they voted on this yet or what?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 4, 2011)

It doesn't look to be going through, First Tsurugi. Supports been pulling out left and right.


----------



## vernamon (Dec 4, 2011)

However another bill has which basically tore about the Bill of rights giving the government to do whatever they want to the people. Its called: The National Defense Authorization Act and the revised version will allow them like I said to do whatever they want to its people without due process.


----------



## hyakku (Dec 4, 2011)

vernamon said:


> However another bill has which basically tore about the Bill of rights giving the government to do whatever they want to the people. Its called: The National Defense Authorization Act and the revised version will allow them like I said to do whatever they want to its people without due process.



....God I need better weed. Sensationalism makes your argument woefully ineffective friend.


----------



## vernamon (Dec 4, 2011)

If you don't believe me just look it up. Yea SOPA may have not gotten through however no one covered other bills like the one I mentioned above.


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Dec 4, 2011)

hyakku said:


> ....God I need better weed. Sensationalism makes your argument woefully ineffective friend.


It's all news everywhere.


----------



## Descent of the Lion (Dec 4, 2011)

MbS said:


> Hon, If you?d just read just a bit further instead of raging you?d quickly realise that It?s more than just their ?artists? losing out. Oh no it goes _much_ further down the company pyramid then that, way down to the people on the bottom. How are companies supposed to compete in capitalist environments when the competition isn?t so much unfair but illegal?
> 
> But hey, as long as you aren't losing anything than giving a shit about others who are is merely irrelevant, amirite? Same story the world over.



Whose fault is that? A bunch of people trying to get more for less like any sane person would do[or company for that matter], or the person whose panties are in a bunch because his customers are changing the rules and he's too myopic and stubborn to adapt?


----------



## Ryuzaki (Dec 5, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Does anyone else find it slightly unsettling that the people writing the laws governing technology and the internet often have little to no understanding of the technology?


In a nutshell this is the problems with law makers in todays society, they are all old and can't even keep up with technology, a couple years ago it was a good thing but now that everything has shifted from the tv to the computer, it's becoming a problem for us.

They don't understand half the issues but odds are if that bill passes, everything you normally download, you probably won't be able to anymore. It's a pain but I'm glad we didn't have to deal with this 10 years ago when the internet was still in it's infancy.


----------



## hyakku (Dec 5, 2011)

SoLiOZuZ said:


> In a nutshell this is the problems with law makers in todays society, they are all old and can't even keep up with technology, a couple years ago it was a good thing but now that everything has shifted from the tv to the computer, it's becoming a problem for us.
> 
> They don't understand half the issues but odds are if that bill passes, everything you normally download, you probably won't be able to anymore. It's a pain but I'm glad we didn't have to deal with this 10 years ago when the internet was still in it's infancy.



Yea....those were the days. Good ol 56k, where you could download unlimited content for free.


----------



## Ryuzaki (Dec 5, 2011)

^ I always had DSL, you need to keep up with the times man =)


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## ~rocka (Dec 5, 2011)

SoLiOZuZ said:


> In a nutshell this is the problems with law makers in todays society, they are all old and can't even keep up with technology, a couple years ago it was a good thing but now that everything has shifted from the tv to the computer, it's becoming a problem for us.


That's just a part of the problem. There is a good reason the law makers are old and incompetent, lobbyists. Due to the excessive amount of power lobbyists (huge industries obv) hold over American politicians ('Inside Job' does an amazing job covering this) it's very easy to make them propose bills to lawmakers like SOPA. 

The fundamental flaw in western society right now (especially in the USA) is the amount of power huge corporations have, and how unwilling they are to change.


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## Goshinki (Dec 5, 2011)

SOPA loses even more support.



Yeah,things dont look good for the bill,which is great news for us!


----------



## God (Dec 5, 2011)

~rocka said:


> That's just a part of the problem. There is a good reason the law makers are old and incompetent, lobbyists. Due to the excessive amount of power lobbyists (huge industries obv) hold over American politicians ('Inside Job' does an amazing job covering this) it's very easy to make them propose bills to lawmakers like SOPA.
> 
> *The fundamental flaw in western society right now (especially in the USA) is the amount of power huge corporations have, and how unwilling they are to change.*



First off, lemme just say, agreed.

Now.. I want to ask you what you think would be a viable solution to this. Capitalism will always screw the middle-class, working man, 100/100 times. How could a government fix this? Socialism? Communism?

I just don't see any way out of a despotic government, it's always there, it will always be there :/


----------



## Sunrider (Dec 5, 2011)

Cubey said:


> First off, lemme just say, agreed.
> 
> Now.. I want to ask you what you think would be a viable solution to this. Capitalism will always screw the middle-class, working man, 100/100 times. How could a government fix this? Socialism? Communism?
> 
> I just don't see any way out of a despotic government, it's always there, it will always be there :/


I think the first mistake is in assuming any one economic theory holds salvation. This country at its most prosperous adopted the capitalistic model _and_ socialistic elements; each a manner of check and balance to the other. 

The problem currently plaguing government is inevitable: when people get fat, happy, and complacent, the ambitious take advantage and the corrupt succumb. 

With regards to currently cleaning up government, I don't know what options are available without basically replacing _every_ elected official. 


My best suggestion (for _everyone)_ is:


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 16, 2011)

So what's the latest news?


----------



## Shukumei (Dec 16, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> So what's the latest news?


You should check out  for updates on SOPA/PIPA &c.

There have been some relevant articles; here are some from the past few days:
 (12/12)
 (12/12)
 (12/12)
 (12/12)
 (12/14)
 (12/14)
 (12/14)
 (12/14)
 (12/15)
 (12/15)
 (12/15)
 (12/15)
 (12/15)
 (12/15)
 (12/15)
 (12/15)
 (12/16)
 (12/16)
 (12/16)

There have also been discussions on Reddit:


----------



## geG (Dec 16, 2011)

The most recent news is that most of the people on the House Judiciary Committee are idiots who don't know how the internet works, but the vote on SOPA and amendments to it is delayed until sometime next month so they can have a hearing that isn't as one-sided as the last one and hopefully get educated on what they're voting on.


----------



## Addy (Dec 16, 2011)

ok guys, i think i voice what everyone is thinkiing:

will this stop free porn?


----------



## Shukumei (Dec 16, 2011)

Geg said:


> delayed until sometime next month


Turns out that isn't the case; it's rescheduled to Wed. the 21st.



> *Update....* Or not. Despite the fact that Congress was supposed to be out of session until the end of January, the Judiciary Committee has just announced plans to come back to continue the markup this coming Wednesday. This is rather unusual and totally unnecessary. But it shows just how desperate Hollywood is to pass this bill as quickly as possible, before the momentum of opposition builds up even further.


()


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 17, 2011)

Why is Hollywood trying to ruin things again?


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 17, 2011)

Because the Studios, want to control how a product; is marketed and released.

Piracy has nothing to do with a minimal percentage drop in sales so much as 
the economic situation domestically is causing a small drop in consumer
perchases.


----------



## Myri (Dec 17, 2011)

I'm a bit slow on the uptake due to living under a rock, and not feeling well.

In basic terms, what the hell is this bill and what will happen if it passes?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 17, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Because the Studios, want to control how a product; is marketed and released.
> 
> Piracy has nothing to do with a minimal percentage drop in sales so much as
> the economic situation domestically is causing a small drop in consumer
> perchases.


It's not just that, its also the quality of the music and the fact that when you do buy music you can buy them one at a time on the computer. So why buy a whole album with one good song when you can spend 1.29$ and buy the song.


----------



## Wolfarus (Dec 17, 2011)

If this ends up passing, i think i'll follow bender's plan :


----------



## Draxo (Dec 17, 2011)

Its the problem with any form of modern government.

All I can say is that not only will they destroy many peoples lives with this, but few people are going to buy their products any more.  Not only will they destroy their reputation amongst the younger generation who keeps them alive, but the majority of their sales come from social media spreading word and hype of their products.  Most of my games come from being enticed to buy them from watching LP's for example.

Essentially, it all stems from people with lack of education and experience on these matters attacking it from in the industry and ruling on it in the government.


----------



## GuidoMista (Dec 17, 2011)

I've been seeing a pro SOPA & PROTECT IP commercial lately. I haven't been able to find it on youtube though. Has anyone else seen it?

It had an image of the red stripes on the American flag being downloaded by pirates.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 17, 2011)

GuidoMista said:


> I've been seeing a pro SOPA & PROTECT IP commercial lately. I haven't been able to find it on youtube though. Has anyone else seen it?
> 
> It had an image of the red stripes on the American flag being downloaded by pirates.



That sounds like the kind of bullshit these people put out to scare people. And what's odd is that no one seems to care about the implications of a bill, they just want to protect some bullshit ideal that some advertising agent made up.


----------



## Linkdarkside (Dec 17, 2011)

GuidoMista said:


> I've been seeing a pro SOPA & PROTECT IP commercial lately. I haven't been able to find it on youtube though. Has anyone else seen it?
> 
> It had an image of the red stripes on the American flag being downloaded by pirates.


yeah i seen it on CNN ,is as stupid the old you would not download a car commercial.


----------



## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Dec 17, 2011)

The truth when you come down to it is that copyright itself is theft.

It is not necessarily as BAD theft as, say, robbing a dozen banks or so, but it is, essentially, stealing from the public. You might disagree with me saying that the artists have created art for us to enjoy and they expect compensation and yes, they certainly EXPECT compensation, but do they DESERVE it? But I digress. The point is that the any information that is spread, any word that is told can be retold. Any digital word can be spread even faster than analog speech. Copyright restricts this speech by claiming that the artists own it, but the truth of the speech and art and information is that anyone who KNOWS it OWNS it. They can, after all, spread it further if they so wish.

Every work that is copyrighted is a work stolen from the public.

I happen to support copyright as a whole (just like I support taxes, despite taxes essentially being theft too) but I strongly disagree with the current way of enforcing copyright. I disagree with extending the terms indefinitely. I disagree with the ridiculous fines.

SOPA is... Just garbage


----------



## butcher50 (Dec 17, 2011)

AWHAAAAA............just put on a extra tax fee on piracy and shut down these absurd copyright bills already.

here problem solved.


----------



## Schwarzwald (Dec 17, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhwuXNv8fJM&feature=g-u&context=G25522f3FUAAAAAAACAA[/YOUTUBE]

Total Biscuit goes through everything in an easy to understand way


----------



## Goshinki (Dec 17, 2011)

Wait a minute, I thought the bill was fixed to make sure only forigen sites were affected.

Granted it still sucks but not as badly.


----------



## kazuri (Dec 17, 2011)

Clothing designers should start suing music labels for music videos that had people dressed in their clothes. Les paul should start suing for guitars used, etc etc.

Nail companies should sue every movie made that has a house built with their nails. If those movies want to use those nails, they need to pay royalties.


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Dec 17, 2011)

Delayed to be passing trough before end of the year.


----------



## ~rocka (Dec 18, 2011)

Cubey said:


> First off, lemme just say, agreed.
> 
> Now.. I want to ask you what you think would be a viable solution to this. Capitalism will always screw the middle-class, working man, 100/100 times. How could a government fix this? Socialism? Communism?
> 
> I just don't see any way out of a despotic government, it's always there, it will always be there :/


I think capitalism will evolve lilke every economic system. I don't think there will be 1 solution, I think it will gradually evolve the same way we went from colonialism > imperialism > industrialism > capitalism. 

The way I see things going in 50-100 years is a mixture of socialism and capitalism much like how Skandinavia and some other European countries are operating already. 

Things that do really need to change however are the banks, they need to be compartmentalized. How the system works now without any regulations, is a ticking time bomb and thusfar (after the crisis) NOTHING has changed. Banks still aim for growth and the world economy will certainly collapse again in 5-10 years, maybe sooner even. 

And of course the wide-spread corruption among American politicians is a great problem. It's a Wall Street government and THAT has to really change. But seeing how the UK even wants to close off their ties with the EU and start more deregulations like the US, they even admitted wanting to do more business with Wall Street instead of the EU, I don't see us coming out of this any time soon.


----------



## Toby (Dec 19, 2011)

@People talking about ideology: This has little to do with capitalism. We have this problem because of unlimited corporate access to the legislature. This is a legal structure, not an economic one. There is no "economic structure", in truth, just actors that exist within a legal framework. And here is the problem: There is little good and clear legal text on what the internet is and how our rights apply there, although we obviously think and should rightly so - consider our freedom of expression here as guaranteed.

That being said, congressmen are by and large lawyers if anything, and suffer from ignorance.



Tsukiyomi said:


> Does anyone else find it slightly unsettling that the people writing the laws governing technology and the internet often have little to no understanding of the technology?



The US Congress has its own Congressional Research Service that carries out research reports on business, economic policy etc. and they should have been alerted ASAP to the problem these bills cause. The fact that Congress hasn't used them on this yet is troubling and suggests that the corporations have not only lined their pockets and filled their minds with ideas, but that the corporations themselves are "explaining" the bill to lawmakers - in private. 

Naturally the one and only way to respond is to contact all important internet businesses and content providers with messages of outrage, and pass it on to lawmakers. They need to be informed of this because they aren't. 

Now I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but voting turnout is bad enough as it is in the US already, but we are also talking about a generation that has not demanded enough of its lawmakers. It shouldn't take any of you more than a few minutes to compile one single cordial but honest letter, save the damn thing, and spam the shit out of your local congresspeople's emails with it, and get the word spread to friends.

At tops I can't see this taking you more than 30 minutes. Hit Facebook, LJ, the whole damn internet with it, and then send on the letters to businesses and public officials. Shut down webpages with excess requests, the whole show. 

Frankly, I wonder where Anonymous is right now. I would have expected to see them mobilize sooner.


----------



## Toby (Dec 19, 2011)

Saving this post as a list of ways to fight SOPA:

1. 

What is SavetheInternet.com?
*Spoiler*: __ 



Save the Internet is a website hosted by FreePress



> Free Press is a national, nonpartisan, nonprofit organization working to reform the media. Through education, organizing and advocacy, we promote diverse and independent media ownership, strong public media, quality journalism and universal access to communications.









2. 

Current count: 1,052,141 (Goal: 1,500,000)

What is Avaaz?
*Spoiler*: __ 



In brief, Avaaz is an email list consisting of millions of people around the planet who sign petitions and raise money for global causes. You can sign their petitions for free and are not required to donate anything at all. If you want to donate, that's cool, but not required. 

What has Avaaz achieved before? Avaaz has tracked many issues, from global warming, human rights campaigns in the Middle East and warzones in Africa, to US legislature encouraging the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell and urging the G20 to increase market access for poor developing countries.

In their own words:



> Avaaz—meaning "voice" in several European, Middle Eastern and Asian languages—launched in 2007 with a simple democratic mission: organize citizens of all nations to close the gap between the world we have and the world most people everywhere want.
> 
> Avaaz empowers millions of people from all walks of life to take action on pressing global, regional and national issues, from corruption and poverty to conflict and climate change. Our model of internet organising allows thousands of individual efforts, however small, to be rapidly combined into a powerful collective force. (Read about results on the Highlights page.)
> 
> The Avaaz community campaigns in 15 languages, served by a core team on 6 continents and thousands of volunteers. We take action -- signing petitions, funding media campaigns and direct actions, emailing, calling and lobbying governments, and organizing "offline" protests and events -- to ensure that the views and values of the world's people inform the decisions that affect us all.






-----------------------------------------


----------



## JMan2003 (Dec 20, 2011)

Goshinki said:


> Wait a minute, I thought the bill was fixed to make sure only forigen sites were affected.
> 
> Granted it still sucks but not as badly.



Foreign Sites meaning Websites that are under Foreign Servers even including the UK, this is still censorship to the highest degree!

Here's what James Rolfe (AVGN) from Cinemassacre.com said about SOPA:



			
				James Rolfe said:
			
		

> I’ve remained silent in this issue for a while, but each day it’s becoming more urgent at an alarming rate. Congress is trying to pass two bills that will change the face of the internet. One is called Protect IP, but the one that’s been a real hot topic lately is SOPA (Stop Online Piracy Act.) It’s an attempt to stop online piracy. Of course, I do not support piracy, but the way the bill is written is very broad and open for interpretation.
> 
> According to what everyone’s saying, it will affect the whole internet. It allows the government to step in, on behalf of major corporations to take down any website or video that they want. It seems like under the broad language of these bills, it would mean doing movie reviews, video game reviews, or anything of that nature would become illegal. There already exist fair use laws that permit the partial use of copyrighted works for criticism or educational value. But somehow these new bills, if they pass, would trample all over that, and fair use would no longer exist. Yes apparently that would mean no more AVGN videos. No nothing. But don’t worry about me. Worry about the internet. The internet has been a source of innovation. These bills are anti-progressive, would cause mass job loss for all small companies online. They are written with a very out-dated business model.
> 
> ...


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## hyakku (Dec 20, 2011)

Lol how'd that guy get banned? He only has one post.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 20, 2011)

They could have deleted the offensive posts, or he could have been a dupe, or the US government could have infiltrated the mods and be trying to censor him.


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## Riley (Dec 20, 2011)

So much for the land of the free. 

Gas anyone noticed that this bill is entirely unconstituFtional...? Have these motherfuckers read the ConstitutiFon? The passing of this law is not only a violation of the first amendment, it gives an incredible power to the Department of Justice. This country is built upon a balance of powers between the areas of federal government and state governmentFs. A federal government with that sort of power would completely destroy this delicate balance - not to mention the damage it would do to a free market economy such as ours. Where is the reserve here? Who will stop them if they block websites they aren't doing anything wrong? The supporters of this bill have no idea the consequencFes of their actions. Look to history! When the government imposes these regulationFs, it can cause irreparablFe damage.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 15, 2012)

More scary shit: 

http://www.businessinsider.com/cens...ed-me-from-commenting-on-ndaa-and-sopa-2012-1



> NBC News has an official Google+ page. They've been using it to promote, mostly, annoying TMZ-style celebrity news updates.
> 
> 
> This morning, I commented on a post that appeared in my feed about a  cruise ship accident in Italy (which killed 3), requesting they cover  NDAA and SOPA, two of the most important news stories in the United  States, and which affect *ALL* 307 million of us.
> ...


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## Yami Munesanzun (Jan 15, 2012)

Riley said:


> So much for the land of the free.
> 
> Gas anyone noticed that this bill is entirely unconstituFtional...? Have these motherfuckers read the ConstitutiFon? The passing of this law is not only a violation of the first amendment, it gives an incredible power to the Department of Justice. This country is built upon a balance of powers between the areas of federal government and state governmentFs. A federal government with that sort of power would completely destroy this delicate balance - not to mention the damage it would do to a free market economy such as ours. Where is the reserve here? Who will stop them if they block websites they aren't doing anything wrong? The supporters of this bill have no idea the consequencFes of their actions. Look to history! When the government imposes these regulationFs, it can cause irreparablFe damage.



what's with the random "F"'s?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 15, 2012)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> what's with the random "F"'s?


The government got to his post...its already too late.


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## Roman (Jan 15, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> More scary shit:
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/cens...ed-me-from-commenting-on-ndaa-and-sopa-2012-1



It really sounds like they're trying to silence the people into submission. The very notion that the US was created with free speech as the very basis of its foundation is being compromised from within consindering both of those bills are very much against the constitution. The people are not important anymore, it's more about who can provide more money to the congressmen, and I find it very disgusting and scary.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 15, 2012)

Corporations need to have their political say in anything dissolved for the most part, that's the main issue here. 

I was talking to Jello and she said Obama did come out against the bill which is good news.


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