# How Strong is Benn Beckman?



## Red Admiral (Sep 3, 2019)

Benn is the meaning of Bad ass

it might not be much ... or much clear argument about benn beckman

but all we know from him


1- His Rank


​Benn Beckman is not just strongest commander he is a *Vice-Captain 
*
and among all Yonko crew the only man who hold this rank is Ben

might not be much but it's some thing


2- Oda/SBS
​in early SBS Oda call Benn power and IQ *"astonishing"
*
people wanted to hype Smoothie to admiral level cause Oda said "she is strong"

I wonder how much hype *"astonishing power" *implied by this statement


3- manga


like any other thing in one piece , this is arguable but

​
in manga Shanks went for Akainu and Benn for Kizaru

people claim Kizaru was trolling around

which rise some qestion


is smartest pirate in the world is not smart enough he can't do anything? Benn is smart enough to know he was capable to damage
Luffy been called a major threat for Marine over and over again ... Kizaru let him leave cause he wanted to TROLL? ... do you think Akainu and or Sengoku just gonna let Kizaru run away with this? this is massive crime

but in any cause

*Kizaru did show respect to Benn.
*
​
4- data book

by now ... no REAL or STRONG argument can be made about Ben ... maybe it would give enough cridit to Ben for being strongest YC1 ... but still a high tier ...

but ... data book gave us some massive hype

​
being comparable/rival to a Yonko
maybe one of the most terrifying pirates alive
having "extremely high battle prowess"
making even the most fearless/strongest (as arutr said) pirates tremble by his mere existence
this are not a high tier type of hype ...
​so ...

how strong is Benn Beckman

​


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## Soca (Sep 3, 2019)

As strong as Katakuri. Maybe a notch stronger? I dunno. Hard to tell when all he's done is use the blunt end of a rifle to knock out fodder.


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## oiety (Sep 3, 2019)

highest high tier, strongest 1st mate after prime ray and eos zoro. so, strongest first mate currently.


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## Nox (Sep 3, 2019)

As strong as a first mate is. Weaker than an Admiral level. Superior to most other stations. Until we have confirmation, stating otherwise the strongest 1st mate as of now is Marco.


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## gogcho (Sep 3, 2019)

Definitely weaker than the Color Trio. As strong as Fuji and Green maybe


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## Shiroryu (Sep 3, 2019)

Admiral level at best
High diff for Admirals at worst

Reactions: Like 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 3, 2019)

Is Admiral level above low top to you? If so, I’d put him Admiral level whichever is higher.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Sep 3, 2019)

He might lose to an Admiral, but given the reactions at MF, he should be strong enough to give them a difficult fight.


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## Luke (Sep 3, 2019)

Strongest Yonko First Mate. Not as strong as any of the Admirals.

Reactions: Like 1


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## convict (Sep 3, 2019)

Between King and Fujitora level, just like Oden for me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 3, 2019)

Equal to Shanks


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 3, 2019)

The same people who will parrot Akainu's fruit having the highest offence among devil fruits,  will deny what is said about Beckmann. 

He is comparable to Shanks who is stronger than any admiral. The databook even confirms that Kizaru took him seriously despite what the illiterates say.

Reactions: Like 2


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 3, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> The same people who will parrot Akainu's fruit having the highest offence among devil fruits,  will deny what is said about Beckmann.
> 
> He is comparable to Shanks who is stronger than any admiral. The databook even confirms that Kizaru took him seriously despite what the illiterates say.


 of course I’m the only consistent king


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## AmitDS (Sep 3, 2019)

Well I think he is on Marco's level and that both are Admiral leveled. The vivre card entry doesn't state that he's as powerful as Shanks, it just says he is Shanks' opposite in his role on the crew, based on his personality etc. and that he inspires fear similarly to how Shanks does in the hearts of the greatest warriors in the New World. It doesn't state that he is equal to Shanks and logically that would upset the Yonko balance since that would be like having 2 Shanks on the same crew or Big Mom and Kaido on a crew together.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Djomla (Sep 3, 2019)

No Commander is on the Admiral lvl as that would mean they are on Emperor level as well.

Anyway, I always thought of Beckmann as the top dog of the Commanders. If Emperor crews are more of less equal to each other then Shank's crew being the smallest one must have the strongest individuals to compensate for the numbers. But I could easily be wrong. Either way it would be strange if he is not close to Marco/Katakuri.

And lol dude, no. Kizaru didn't show any respect to BB. He made a troll face and even when BB warned him to stop he simply continued to attack with no fucks given.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Yuji (Sep 3, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> Well I think he is on Marco's level and that both are Admiral leveled. The vivre card entry doesn't state that he's as powerful as Shanks, it just says he is Shanks' opposite in his role on the crew, based on his personality etc. and that he inspires fear similarly to how Shanks does in the hearts of the greatest warriors in the New World. It doesn't state that he is equal to Shanks



You didn't read the Vivre card you posted, second bullet point

_''He's incredibly powerful in terms of physical combat. His card even says comparable to Red Hair's''_

It's not his personality or role on the crew, it's his combat abilities too.
___

My thoughts on Beckman and vivre cards is that we have to remember Vivre Cards have been subject to misinformation and exaggeration, for example they implied Marco's regeneration has no limit when it is factually stated by Oda in an SBS that it has a limit. It stated Jozu has either unparalleled toughness or strength when Kaido and Big Mom exist. It stated Akainu's devil fruit has the highest attack power when Whitebeard's fruit exists, other comparable logias and Law/Big Mom's fruit.

So vivre cards can be used a supplementary material but using it as a bible truth is a fallacy since it has a history of contradicting Oda and the manga.

I don't think it's illogical to put Beckman close to Shanks level though, they are a small crew and we've seen that the smaller the crew gets the better the quality of individual fighters and the closer the gap between the captain's strength. Katakuri is light years away from Big Mom, whilst smaller crews like Roger and Luffy have Rayleigh and Zoro who are much closer to them in power. Shanks' crew shouldn't be any different, they have to compete with other Yonko crews after all.

I don't think we've ever seen a second who was completely on the level of their captain however, unless you believe the Rayleigh hype. So I would not put Beckman on the level of Shanks, just close to it.

EDIT: None of these options cover my placement btw especially since it assumes YC1 is a power level and low top tier isn't defined. Stronger than admirals, weaker than Yonko is my final call which is where I put people like Rayleigh, Mihawk, Garp


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## CaptainCommander (Sep 4, 2019)

As strong or stronger than the other First mates and Admirals. Still well below Fleet Admiral and Yonko.


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 4, 2019)

Beckman > Kizaru

shanks > Beckman > kizaru is lame

shanks = Beckman > kizaru is where it’s at


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## AmitDS (Sep 4, 2019)

Yuji said:


> You didn't read the Vivre card you posted, second bullet point
> 
> _''He's incredibly powerful in terms of physical combat. His card even says comparable to Red Hair's''_
> 
> ...



No _you_ didn't read what I posted from Library of Ohara

"He's incredibly powerful in terms of physical combat. _"*Comparable to Red Hair's, this man's existence *is feared by even the powerful warriors of the New World!!"_It's unclear if existence refers to power, authority, or whatever else, so take this with a grain of salt." 

His existence is compared to Shanks and his role in the crew is stated to be opposite yet complimentary to Shanks'. 

Also Zoro and Luffy being close in power, if we can even call that close, isn't applicable or relevant since Luffy is YC1 and Zoro is probably under YC3 leveled while Shanks is a yonko and Beckman is most likely his YC1. It's not the same gap. 

And there isn't anything hyping Rayleigh as on par with or close to Roger's level as far as I know. Yeah he's a legend but unlike WB/Garp, he isn't legendary for being on par with or close in power to Roger.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Sep 4, 2019)

Low top tier. He will be one of the last (or may be the last) YFM shown on panel before EOS.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Old Man Van (Sep 4, 2019)

Kizaru didnt give a damn about Marco but stood down against Beckman. Clear cut portrayal right there. Beckman was also said to stand toe-to-toe with Shanks. 

Everything is pointing to Beckman being a top tier.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sherlōck (Sep 4, 2019)

For now Marco is the strongest YFM/YC1.

Benn at best is as strong as Marco for now. 

Shiryuu most probably beat Vista a YC3 level fighter. If BBP fights RHP next then he will probably fight Benn. Unless just getting a fruit jumped him from beating YC3 level fighter to beating top tier fighter then Benn at best is YC1 level.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> For now Marco is the strongest YFM/YC1.
> 
> Benn at best is as strong as Marco for now.
> 
> Shiryuu most probably beat Vista a YC3 level fighter. If BBP fights RHP next then he will probably fight Benn. Unless just getting a fruit jumped him from beating YC3 level fighter to beating top tier fighter then Benn at best is YC1 level.



so your base for argument is head canon about what might happen for RHP Vs BBP ?

not much of an argument

it's IMPOSSIBLE for a YC1 for be comparable to a Yonko


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## Sherlōck (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> so your base for argument is head canon about what might happen for RHP Vs BBP ?
> 
> not much of an argument
> 
> it's IMPOSSIBLE for a YC1 for be comparable to a Yonko



No, my base argument is that he hasn’t shown anything that will justify putting him as top tier fighter or whatever low/mid/high top tier gibberish lots of people throw around.

He fought who? He beat who? Did he show any impressive feat? Nothing. All he did was point a gun towards Kizaru that he ignored while he looked like an idiot. Which isn’t surprising from Kizaru who was just fighting WB and put a laser through his chest. And we are supposed to ignore Admirals fearlessness to fight WB head on while hype Beckman's sorry ass non-feat? 

Give me a break. The only reason why you are even talking about Benn being a possible top tier is cause he is part of RHP. Otherwise you wouldn’t give two shit about him. 

And hypothetical match-up between RHP Vs BBP might be headcanon for now but you know in your heart that it's coming soon.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Flame (Sep 4, 2019)

Top of FM tier.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> No, my base argument is that he hasn’t shown anything that will justify putting him as top tier fighter or whatever low/mid/high top tier gibberish lots of people throw around.
> 
> He fought who? He beat who? Did he show any impressive feat? Nothing. All he did was point a gun towards Kizaru that he ignored while he looked like an idiot. Which isn’t surprising from Kizaru who was just fighting WB and put a laser through his chest. And we are supposed to ignore Admirals fearlessness to fight WB head on while hype Beckman's sorry ass non-feat?
> 
> ...


it's a sad thing that people still think FEAT is the only thing that matter

hype and portrayal  matter too 

it dosen't matter (at least should not matter) why I care about ben beckman 

and I don't care if some one would think he is YC1 ...


but saying 

*Shiryuu beat Vista who us YC3
and he would be equal to Benn*

is just beyond stupid argument 


if you want to say : *I don't think he be more than YC1* .... fine ... at least this is an argument 


when you have no argument but a mere a opinion ... it's fine , just say that opinion , don't try to pretend as if you have one


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## Sherlōck (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> it's a sad thing that people still think FEAT is the only thing that matter
> 
> hype and portrayal  matter too
> 
> ...



He doesn’t have hype or portrayal. Not in the manga, not from SBS or Oda's interview. His single hype comes from VC which is known to give false info and even that VC hype doesn’t put him on top tier level.      



> but saying
> 
> *Shiryuu beat Vista who us YC3
> and he would be equal to Benn*
> ...



Don't pretend that all I have been saying is that.

I explecity said I am not basing my argument on that. I even said it’s headcanon gor now but has pretty high chance of coming true.

Stop being disingenuous .


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> He doesn’t have hype or portrayal. Not in the manga, not from SBS or Oda's interview. His single hype comes from VC which is known to give false info and even that VC hype doesn’t put him on top tier level.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



sure ... Oda calling some one power *"astonishing" *is not a hype
and VC is a canon source for info ... simply ignoring that cause you don't like is just rich

the only time VC gave us false info was about Sabo's death 
I assumed you consider yourself smart ... and you can't understand data book can't give away a twits? wow ...

+

yes ... but you said to me "you know in your heart it's true" 

what's the meaning of that?

it's a head canon but we should all agree it's true?


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## Quipchaque (Sep 4, 2019)

Yonko level. Stronger than Big Mom and the Admirals. No matter what certain individuals believe Shanks would never expect to threaten anyone in Marineford which a bunch of High tiers in his crew.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 4, 2019)

PK level. He would've one shotted Kizaru and is one of the most relevant character in the entire manga.


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## Djomla (Sep 4, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Yonko level. Stronger than Big Mom and the Admirals. No matter what certain individuals believe Shanks would never expect to threaten anyone in Marineford which a bunch of High tiers in his crew.



Well, Beckmann did threaten Kizaru and yet he gave no fucks to him. 

You do realise that Sengoku stopped the fight not because he was afraid of Shanks or something like that but because losing two Emperor's would just throw the whole World/World Powers into turmoil.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Djomla said:


> Well, Beckmann did threaten Kizaru and yet he gave no fucks to him.
> 
> You do realise that Sengoku stopped the fight not because he was afraid of Shanks or something like that but because losing two Emperor's would just throw the whole World/World Powers into turmoil.


and fighting Shanks would make Marine nude

1 , 2 or even 3 admirals could die fighting Shanks and WBP


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## Djomla (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> and fighting Shanks would make Marine nude
> 
> 1 , 2 or even 3 admirals could die fighting Shanks and WBP



Not really, but okay. :|


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Djomla said:


> Not really, but okay. :|



knowing there is no Mihawk who help them and Akainu was really broken ... yes really ...


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## Djomla (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> knowing there is no Mihawk who help them and Akainu was really broken ... yes really ...



Kizaru, Aokiji and Akainu would low diff him together... Mihawk isn't really a top dog until he gets retconned so he doesn't matter that much.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Djomla said:


> Kizaru, Aokiji and Akainu would low diff him together... Mihawk isn't really a top dog until he gets retconned so he doesn't matter that much.



Shanks alone?

well Shanks is not alone

Shanks beat Kuzan (strongest admiral atm)
Ben and Marco beat Kizaru
RHP and Vista beat a broken Akainu

all 3 cases are 100% possible and logica

yes , Garp and Sengoku may won the war for Marine ... but if 3 admiral die , so as Marine power


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 4, 2019)

Djomla said:


> Well, Beckmann did threaten Kizaru and yet he gave no fucks to him.


This has been debunked multiple times. Kizaru only attacked after Beckmann left the area. Beckmann made the threat and then Kizaru backed down. Then whole lot of dialogue happens with Beckmann making his way across the plaza, then only does Kizaru attack. The databook which Oda supervises indicates that Kizarru took him seriously. 


Djomla said:


> You do realise that Sengoku stopped the fight not because he was afraid of Shanks or something like that but because losing two Emperor's would just throw the whole World/World Powers into turmoil.


Not of this is remotely suggested by the manga. Sengoku didn't give any of this headcanon. He simply backed down along with BB. BB had no problem fighting all the marines but backed down from the Red-hairs. He placed the threat of Shanks and his crew as higher than the marines. 

Losing one emperor upsets the balance. If they were concerned about the balance they would have given Ace back to WB to keep the balance of 4 Yonkou. The marines are there for justice, that means taking out and arresting pirates. Problem is they can't take out the Yonkou. They would if they could.


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 4, 2019)

Also why doesn't the poll have the option for stronger than admiral????

Reactions: Like 1


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## Djomla (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Shanks alone?
> 
> well Shanks is not alone
> 
> ...



Maybe Shanks could beat Aokiji. And Aokiji may as well do the same.

Two Commanders can't beat an Admiral. Vista and Marco literally went to kill Akainu and he shrugged them off like they were flees. And they even used Haki.

And all 3 original Admirals are more of less equal.

No, losing 3 Admirals isn't the same as losing Emperors. Marines work like today's militaries. There is always somebody to step up and take a rank as evident by the new Admirals. As soon as they need to. While there are Pirates who can claim the Emperor title when two or more die, they would inevitably fight with each other for the position, which means wars between crews, no stability and what not. So the Pirate power in the World Balance would weaken, not Marine or even Warlord as they are handpicked too.

I'm not saying Marines wouldn't suffer casualties if they challenged Shanks on Marineford. Maybe even lose an Admiral, but in the end they would still win. They would however also lose in a sense that they literally threw the World Balance down the sink. And that is something they don't want to do.

And there is also a fact that Shanks is too friendly with Elders. Maybe that also played into Sengoku and Shanks choosing peace instead of War.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Also why doesn't the poll have the option for stronger than admiral????



for the same reason it don't have option for weaker than YC1 

Ben max hype is admiral level until he get feats or more legit info in general


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> for the same reason it don't have option for weaker than YC1
> 
> Ben max hype is admiral level until he get feats or more legit info in general


If he is comparable to Shanks then he is stronger than an admiral.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Djomla said:


> Maybe Shanks could beat Aokiji. And Aokiji may as well do the same.
> 
> Two Commanders can't beat an Admiral. Vista and Marco literally went to kill Akainu and he shrugged them off like they were flees. And they even used Haki.
> 
> ...



Ben himself might be enough by himself ... I just add Marco to be sure ...

+

New admirals are not as good as Logia admirals and CERTAINLY not as loyal

Green Bull and Fujitora might even help Dragon to take down WG 

+

all I'm saying fighting Shanks would have massive cost for Marine ... I don't think it's an illogical claim


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> If he is comparable to Shanks then he is stronger than an admiral.



comparable can mean many thing and Shanks power level still is not 100% clear

again ... I don't think I need to prove I'm a believer in Shanks and his Crew as strongest Yonko and Strongest crew

but as creator of thread I tried to be as fair as possible 


even now I think Ben can beat Fujitora tbh ... but since hype is not clear enough even I voted for low top tier


don't worry mate ... when Ben and Shanks got their panel we are here to show the world we were right all along


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## Djomla (Sep 4, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> This has been debunked multiple times. Kizaru only attacked after Beckmann left the area. Beckmann made the threat and then Kizaru backed down. Then whole lot of dialogue happens with Beckmann making his way across the plaza, then only does Kizaru attack. The databook which Oda supervises indicates that Kizarru took him seriously.
> 
> Not of this is remotely suggested by the manga. Sengoku didn't give any of this headcanon. He simply backed down along with BB. BB had no problem fighting all the marines but backed down from the Red-hairs. He placed the threat of Shanks and his crew as higher than the marines.
> 
> Losing one emperor upsets the balance. If they were concerned about the balance they would have given Ace back to WB to keep the balance of 4 Yonkou. The marines are there for justice, that means taking out and arresting pirates. Problem is they can't take out the Yonkou. They would if they could.



Dude, he trolled him. Literally. Happened in the manga. Even more so in the anime with a troll voice. I don't care about editors and databooks as manga is more Canon that both.

Jesus, not every thing needs to be drawn for us to come to some conclusion, but there literally was a discussion about how after losing Edward, World will be thrown into turmoil as the World Balance is now shaken. Literally discussed by the Five Elders. 

We know that One Piece World works thanks to Admirals, Emperors and Warlords. Losing any of those throws the World into chaos. Especially if it's the Emperors as unlike Marines they hate each other and don't work well together. Sengoku is one of the more intelligent characters in the story and he actually leads (in a way) one or the Powers. Now why would he choose to throw World into chaos when he doesn't need to and when he's sole purpose is to stop that from happening.


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> comparable can mean many thing and Shanks power level still is not 100% clear
> 
> again ... I don't think I need to prove I'm a believer in Shanks and his Crew as strongest Yonko and Strongest crew
> 
> ...


If the cheerful party lover Shanks is the ‘sun’, then Beckman is the ‘moon’ that quietly express his dignity.”
“He have the experience that he gain through his long voyage, a brain that can think clearly and is extremely strong at combat.”
*“Even the warriors of the ‘New World’ shall tremble upon the man who rival ‘RedHair’...!!”
“Even the Marine Admiral understand the threat of Benn•Beckman very well!”(referencing back to his conversation with Kizaru)*
“The cool-headed man Beckman act as the ‘anchor’ that stabilize the ‘ship’ RedHair Pirates!”

*The term they used for the rival part is 比肩, the literal meaning of it is standing shoulder to shoulder, it could also mean the two are equal, equally matched, or rivals each other.*

There you can see what they mean by ''comparable''

While Shanks' power isn't clear there are hints. We know he is capable of equally matching a WB still in WSM condition (not the weak one at MF who sent Akainu to the floor in two hits) and sent Kaido back to the NW (It was a skirmish according to the marines not a drinking contest as some like to make up). Besides ending the war by threatening to fight.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Djomla said:


> Dude, he trolled him. Literally. Happened in the manga. Even more so in the anime with a troll voice. I don't care about editors and databooks as manga is more Canon that both.
> 
> Jesus, not every thing needs to be drawn for us to come to some conclusion, but there literally was a discussion about how after losing Edward, World will be thrown into turmoil as the World Balance is now shaken. Literally discussed by the Five Elders.
> 
> We know that One Piece World works thanks to Admirals, Emperors and Warlords. Losing any of those throws the World into chaos. Especially if it's the Emperors as unlike Marines they hate each other and don't work well together. Sengoku is one of the more intelligent characters in the story and he actually leads (in a way) one or the Powers. Now why would he choose to throw World into chaos when he doesn't need to and when he's sole purpose is to stop that from happening.



troll is a stupid argument

*an admiral let son of the most dangerous man and great threat run away in order to troll some one ...?*

really? Kizaru is not that retarded 

*Ben Beckman is smartest pirate alive , when he assume he can threat some one with his power , he can ...*


*but holding an admiral by a gun for ever is just fucking impossible *


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> If the cheerful party lover Shanks is the ‘sun’, then Beckman is the ‘moon’ that quietly express his dignity.”
> “He have the experience that he gain through his long voyage, a brain that can think clearly and is extremely strong at combat.”
> *“Even the warriors of the ‘New World’ shall tremble upon the man who rival ‘RedHair’...!!”
> “Even the Marine Admiral understand the threat of Benn•Beckman very well!”(referencing back to his conversation with Kizaru)*
> ...



mate ... are you trying to show me the hype of Shanks and Ben? I'm red freaking admiral ... I'm the red temple ! 

I know all of this ...

but if put "above admiral" people would start BS about it that we just want to wank Ben 

and truth is his argument is not enough *YET* to be on same level of Yonko

sun and moon are about personality not power
and comparable is not same with equal

Roger and Dark King are comparable but I bet Roger can high diff him 


let's not fight here about it ...

I know Ben being above admiral is a possibility but the argument is still not strong enough ... I'm trying to be nice to admiral base here ... don't be mad


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 4, 2019)

Djomla said:


> Dude, he trolled him. Literally. Happened in the manga. Even more so in the anime with a troll voice. I don't care about editors and databooks as manga is more Canon that both.
> 
> Jesus, not every thing needs to be drawn for us to come to some conclusion, but there literally was a discussion about how after losing Edward, World will be thrown into turmoil as the World Balance is now shaken. Literally discussed by the Five Elders.
> 
> We know that One Piece World works thanks to Admirals, Emperors and Warlords. Losing any of those throws the World into chaos. Especially if it's the Emperors as unlike Marines they hate each other and don't work well together. Sengoku is one of the more intelligent characters in the story and he actually leads (in a way) one or the Powers. Now why would he choose to throw World into chaos when he doesn't need to and when he's sole purpose is to stop that from happening.


In the manga you claim to read Kizaru stopped.. Did he immediately attack and troll Beckmann? No because then there was a long whole conversation. That's what the manga showed that you are ignoring. Then only once Beckmann was making his way to the plaza for the Shanks' threat did Kizaru get some courage. Note that when Shanks said if you want to continue step forward none of the marines moved. The databook that is supplementary confirms that Kizaru took him seriously. You are just ignoring it and what happened in the manga for the sake of the story in your head that Kizaru was trolling. You are ignoring the databook supervised by the author of the manga for the sake of the story in your head. Do you really think a controversial statement like that did not go through Oda?

Why are you not addressing that executing Ace and going to war with WB would upset the balance? Since they are concerned about it? They are worried about Weevil because the WG has a stalemate with Marines+Warlords= Yonkou vs Yonkou vs Yonkou vs Yonkou. If they could get rid of the Yonkou they would as their goal is justice. 

Show me one panel of Sengoku saying he backed down for the reasons you claim.


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## Djomla (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> troll is a stupid argument
> 
> *an admiral let son of the most dangerous man and great threat run away in order to troll some one ...?*
> 
> ...



He didn't left anybody. Ben pointed the gun and ordered to stop, Kizaru raised his hand made a troll face and used troll voice to say Oh, Benn Beckmann. I don't how you can't see that he didn't really care about him. Like, that what trolling is.

Why does it matter what BB thinks he can do? Even if he is intelligent. What matters is what he *can do.* For example. Edward was the strongest character at that moment, had the most fearsome crew and he said he was going to free Ace. So just because he is the strongest and said he will do something, that must be truth and fact. What did happen exactly? Quite the opposite. Ace died, Edward died, Jozu was off paneled, Marco was trapped by no name fodders and Whitebeard Pirates were destroyed.


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> mate ... are you trying to show me the hype of Shanks and Ben? I'm red freaking admiral ... I'm the red temple !
> 
> I know all of this ...
> 
> ...


I am only interested in the truth. If the databook says they are comparable and comparable in the context of the Japanese word means :

*"The term they used for the rival part is 比肩, the literal meaning of it is standing shoulder to shoulder, it could also mean the two are equal, equally matched, or rivals each other."
*
Then I am going to go with that instead of convincing myself that comparable doesn't mean close to equal when the person translating it says it does. I am not going to sugarcoat it for the admiral trolls.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Djomla said:


> He didn't left anybody. Ben pointed the gun and ordered to stop, Kizaru raised his hand made a troll face and used troll voice to say Oh, Benn Beckmann. I don't how you can't see that he didn't really care about him. Like, that what trolling is.
> 
> Why does it matter what BB thinks he can do? Even if he is intelligent. What matters is what he *can do.* For example. Edward was the strongest character at that moment, had the most fearsome crew and he said he was going to free Ace. So just because he is the strongest and said he will do something, that must be truth and fact. What did happen exactly? Quite the opposite. Ace died, Edward died, Jozu was off paneled, Marco was trapped by no name fodders and Whitebeard Pirates were destroyed.



Kizaru won't let a CLEAR shot go to waste for a troll ...

in fact Kizaru care SO MUCH he risked attacking Luffy anyway

but Ben didn't attacked him cause he wasn't going to make things worst 

+

cause he is not stupid .. Ben know his powers ...
date book told us even the most fearless pirates tremble to the Ben existence

Kizaru fear a clear threat ... make perfect sense and we saw it


+

WB was there to free Ace not to beat Marine ... Ace got free ... so ?


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## Djomla (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> WB was there to free Ace not to beat Marine ... Ace got free ... so ?



Really dude? Common.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Djomla said:


> Really dude? Common.



the war was about freeing Ace ... am I missing something here?


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## Djomla (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> the war was about freeing Ace ... am I missing something here?



Yes. The whole Edward's character.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> I am only interested in the truth. If the databook says they are comparable and comparable in the context of the Japanese word means :
> 
> *"The term they used for the rival part is 比肩, the literal meaning of it is standing shoulder to shoulder, it could also mean the two are equal, equally matched, or rivals each other."
> *
> Then I am going to go with that instead of convincing myself that comparable doesn't mean close to equal when the person translating it says it does. I am not going to sugarcoat it for the admiral trolls.



Shanks having an equal but Yonko is a sad day for me .. lol

and that term refer to Ben as a person ... power and authority both ...

*the claim is not clear enough 
*
trust me ... when Ben proved himself to be equal to Yonko ... I would apology to him for not having faith in him and I do it with joy

but for now I can only consider the max of current strong argument to him to admiral level


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## ice demon slayer (Sep 4, 2019)

Shanks level


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 4, 2019)

its not Benn who is Shanks level
its Shank who is Benn Beckman level


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 4, 2019)

At least Admiral level. All I had to see was Kizarus reaction and BBs reaction when Shanks asked him if he wanted the smoke and just before that the man was trying to take on all the Marines. I wouldn't be surprised if he is Prime Ray level or a just a tiny bit below. 

You don't make teach back down with 1 top tier and other high tiers.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Sep 4, 2019)

Weaker than Shanks, stronger than any other Yonkou FM, except for maybe Lafitte.


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## Steven (Sep 4, 2019)

Off-screen level

Reactions: Like 2


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## Law (Sep 4, 2019)

Above other FM's bar maybe Marco.

If BB's new titan is his strongest subordinate and/or his FM, and he's peaked, then he's > Ben. If it's either Shiryu/Lafitte/Burgess, he'll be surpassed by the time RHP vs BBP happens so Ben > BB's FM for now.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Law said:


> Above other FM's bar maybe Marco.
> 
> If BB's new titan is his strongest subordinate and/or his FM, and he's peaked, then he's > Ben. If it's either Shiryu/Lafitte/Burgess, he'll be surpassed by the time RHP vs BBP happens so Ben > BB's FM for now.



Shanks and Black Beard would have a war

but it's highly unlikely if Black Beard fight Shanks , win and go fight Strew hats


the cost of fighting Shanks is TOO HIGH to BB... maybe 80% of his crew would die, RHP ain't no Marco and WBPs to get a low and get washed away
strew hats on their own are too weak to fight BB alone in a war


and in any case

Roger's pirate and Whitebeard pirate were kinda rival in same kind of RHP and BBP

but no man in WBP were near Dark King
and no man in BBP would be equal to Benn


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Off-screen level



I let Roger take care of this

​


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## Furinji Saiga (Sep 4, 2019)

I think hes slightly above Marco for now, I believe he is hyped indeed.

Not sure if he is as powerful as the Old Geezers( Old Rayleigh, Old Garp, Old Sengoku) 

Definitely weaker then all the Admirals/Yonko.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Law (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Shanks and Black Beard would have a war
> 
> but it's highly unlikely if Black Beard fight Shanks , win and go fight Strew hats
> 
> ...


If they fight as foreshadowed, then BB and his main crewmembers will all win in a close fight and still live, possibly RHP's will get killed. Many fodders on both sides probably will die. 

There will be enough time for BBP to completely heal before fighting SHs.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Law said:


> If they fight as foreshadowed, then BB and his main crewmembers will all win in a close fight and still live, possibly RHP's will get killed. Many fodders on both sides probably will die.
> 
> There will be enough time for BBP to completely heal before fighting SHs.



that's thing ... it's impossible ... you can't fight RHP and heal up ... as I said 80% of BBP would die

you can't fight 2 top tier and many skilled high tiers who most likely all have advance Haki and just be fine after that

it's not even a good fan fiction let alone good plot for one piece

and if they can do that to RHP ... there is no logic behind losing to SHP

SHP only have 1 low top tier , 3 high tier and rest are fodders


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## Law (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> that's thing ... it's impossible ... you can't fight RHP and heal up ... as I said 80% of BBP would die
> 
> you can't fight 2 top tier and many skilled high tiers who most likely all have advance Haki and just be fine after that
> 
> ...


I'm not talking about current SHP. They would lose against either of BBP or RHP.

Peak or near peak PK level crew SHP will beat peak PK level crew BBP.

East Blue Strawhats would lose easily to CP9 but by the time they reached Enies Lobby, they've been thru fights which powered them up. Hence Enies Lobby SHP > CP9.

Current BBP crew is probably weaker than RHP crew since they're DF hunting still. When BBP vs RHP happens as is foreshadowed, BBP will be ready. They retreated 2 years ago because they weren't ready yet.

So like how Oda has been doing close fights for SHP, where it's either live or die, and they lived everytime, Oda will do the same with BBP. Close fights vs RHP and whatever injury they get will be fully healed by the time SHP vs BBP happens. Again, same thing will happen here. Close fight but SHP win and live.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Law said:


> I'm not talking about current SHP. They would lose against either of BBP or RHP.
> 
> Peak or near peak PK level crew SHP will beat peak PK level crew BBP.
> 
> ...



how much do you think it left before Raftel time? less than a year in one piece time ... how much stronger you expect SHs become?

Maybe Luffy would get a CoC power up and a DF power up

rest are same as after wano


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## Law (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> how much do you think it left before Raftel time? less than a year in one piece time ... how much stronger you expect SHs become?


Luffy and Zoro are fodder to yonko level. They'll all become much stronger to become PK level crew.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Law said:


> Luffy and Zoro are fodder to yonko level so they'll all become much stronger to become PK level crew.



they would PK level crew when they are in their Prime ... and tbh ... I doubt they be equal to Roger's crew ... ever

Roger had most likely 5 top tiers in his crew

Luffy would have 3 

2 top tier gap is no small gap


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> I doubt they be equal to Roger's crew ... ever

Reactions: Like 1


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## Law (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> they would PK level crew when they are in their Prime ... and tbh ... I doubt they be equal to Roger's crew ... ever
> 
> Roger had most likely 5 top tiers in his crew
> 
> ...


Luffy and his crew will do what Roger and his crew failed to do. They'll be surpassed at the latest by the time Luffy is 20 y/o unless there's a major timeskip.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Law said:


> Luffy and his crew will do what Roger and his crew failed to do. They'll be surpassed at the latest by the time Luffy is 20 y/o unless there's a major timeskip.



failed? they fail to do what?



Shiba D. Inu said:


>


show me 5 top tiers in Luffy's crew and we talk


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 4, 2019)

what 5 top tiers did Roger have ?


anyway, it doesnt matter, m3/m4 or even Luffy +Zoro will be > them


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> what 5 top tiers did Roger have ?
> 
> 
> anyway, it doesnt matter, m3/m4 or even Luffy +Zoro will be > them



now this was funny .... 

Roger crew fought the world and didn't had 100s of allies like Luffy did 

and if you even think Luffy and Roger or Zoro and Dark king would have big gap ... well ... give me your drug then , it's a good one


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 4, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> what 5 top tiers did Roger have ?


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> what 5 top tiers did Roger have ?



Roger
Dark King
Bullet
Oden
Gabban 

rest of crew should be full of monsters as well


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## Law (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> failed? they fail to do what?


Maybe failed was bit too much but Roger and his crew found out about the history of the world but couldn't do anything about it. Luffy and his crew will be at the forefront to bring about the change needed. Imu's days are numbered.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Bullet


non-canon garbage 



Red Admiral said:


> Oden


he wasnt a full Roger pirate (or even a pirate at all), he just sailed with them some time (and with WB before that) .. just like Law sailed with SHs for most of post-skip lol

even with Oden thats 3 





Red Admiral said:


> Gabban


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Law said:


> Maybe failed was bit too much but Roger and his crew found out about the history of the world but couldn't do anything about it. Luffy and his crew will be at the forefront to bring about the change needed. Imu's days are numbered.



*Roger found One Piece too early ... *

it's fact ...

it's not his fault



Shiba D. Inu said:


> non-canon garbage
> 
> 
> he wasnt a full Roger pirate (or even a pirate at all), he just sailed with them some time (and with WB before that) .. just like Law sailed with SHs for most of post-skip lol


last time I checked when Oda call some canon , he is canon 

Oden went to Raftel with Roger ... what more a crew mate can be?


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## Law (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> *Roger found One Piece too early ... *
> 
> it's fact ...
> 
> it's not his fault


Luffy will be the Pirate King of THE golden age of piracy and will be the ONE to change the world (with the help of his crew and others). That is a fact. 

He may do it at the age of 20 or 200. Who knows. But it will 100% happen.


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## Furinji Saiga (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Roger
> Dark King
> Bullet
> Oden
> ...





I see, so two top tiers  and the rest is just you stating nonsense as facts. Got it.

 Damn I was excited you were privy to information that none of us knew, Roger having 5 top tiers, would be quite a statement one can make so boldly without evidence.

Reactions: Like 6


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Law said:


> Luffy will be the Pirate King of THE golden age of piracy and will be the ONE to change the world (with the help of his crew and others). That is a fact.
> 
> He may do it at the age of 20 or 200. Who knows. But it will 100% happen.



good for him ... still weaker crew ... bigger allies



Furinji Saiga said:


> I see, so two top tiers  and the rest is just you stating nonsense as facts. Got it.
> 
> Damn I was excited you were privy to information that none of us knew, Roger having 5 top tiers, would be quite a statement one can make so boldly without evidence.



sure buddy ...

Roger and Dark King aside

Oda wank the shit out of Bullet himself ignoring the movie

Oden hype is legit

you can have an argument for Gabban ... that I give you


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## Law (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> good for him ... still weaker crew ... bigger allies




So they'll be a PK crew but not PK level crew.

A non-PK level crew will become the PK crew in the Golden Age of Piracy. 

Stop trolling RH.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Law said:


> So they'll be a PK crew but not PK level crew.
> 
> A non-PK level crew will become the PK crew in the Golden Age of Piracy.
> 
> Stop trolling RH.



PK level crew? stop coming up with terms ...

Roger crew was a strength base crew and had many monsters in it

Luffy crew is not based on power , many of his crewmates are not even good fighters

and Luffy main power is to have big terms allies

but Roger did everything himself

Prime Strew hats are give and take equal to rest of Yonko crew maybe a bit stronger at best for plot armor sake

but saying they would be much more cause plot would make them that strong is just baseless and wrong

just counting facts is not trolling

but saying Luffy would have a stronger crew than Roger atm is just wank

so ... stop Wanking

p.s

Strew hats can't eat shit if they go to fight WG without a full army of allies


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## Sade (Sep 4, 2019)

Above the others FM for sure probably Low Top tier level so strong enought to mid/ high diff Kata.


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## Law (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> PK level crew? stop coming up with terms ...
> 
> Roger crew was a strength base crew and had many monsters in it
> 
> ...


A lot of what you said is baseless. We don't know much about Roger and his crew to draw the conclusions you arrived at. 

Pk level crew is as logical made up term as other terms. 

When Roger died, Shiki told Wb it's your era now. Why say that, even without putting up a fight, if he wasn't so sure about it? Shiki was like what the yonko are today. Top tier pirate captain with a huge fleet and allies. He knew his place. 

Earlier you said, based on your fanfic, Luffy and his crew can't and will not surpass Roger's crew because Roger's crew had 5 top tiers.

How can you now say Luffy and his crew will only be a bit stronger than a yonko crew, but only for the sake of plot?

SHP will have 3 top tiers. Yonko only have 1. SHP as you say have many allies. Yonko as well. 

That's not little stronger for the sake of plot. They'd be clear cut decently stronger than a yonko crew. 

Nobody said current SHP are stronger than Roger's crew, so no wanking on my side. 

They will surpass Roger's crew as it's tougher than before hence why now it is the Golden Age of Piracy.


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## Dunno (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> failed? they fail to do what?
> 
> 
> show me 5 top tiers in Luffy's crew and we talk


Luffy 
Sanji 
Zoro's left hand sword
Zoro's right hand sword
Zoro's mouth sword.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Law said:


> A lot of what you said is baseless. We don't know much about Roger and his crew to draw the conclusions you arrived at.
> 
> Pk level crew is as logical made up term as other terms.
> 
> ...



PK level is not a logical term .. cause the two pirate King crew are not same

sure they are both strongest of the era , but that's all they have in-common

Roger crew most likely had 4 to 5 top tiers ... Luffy would not have this number
Roger crew had at least 5 CoC users (kings) on his crew ... Luffy have 1 so far

Luffy crew don't show me any promise to be this good 

+

Yonko have MUCH MUCH MUCH more stronger mid body solders ... 

and numbers matter 

as Shiki crew was almost equal to Roger crew during a war 

a Yonko crew can only do better , if Shiki had 100 ships , big Mom have 1000


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Luffy
> Sanji
> Zoro's left hand sword
> Zoro's right hand sword
> Zoro's mouth sword.


wanking Zoro is good for getting likes ... sadly we live in an era that getting like matter more than logic and fairness


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## Sade (Sep 4, 2019)

EOS Zoro and EOS Luffy would be able to solo the whole Roger crew 
This is a fact and deny it is stupid, let's move on weirdos.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Sade said:


> EOS Zoro and EOS Luffy would be able to solo the whole Roger crew
> This is a fact and deny it is stupid, let's move on weirdos.



OK ... we are getting off thread ... from now on just Benn


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## Sherlōck (Sep 4, 2019)

Roger had 5 top tiers in his crew.  

Luffy's core crew will be garbage compared to RHP or BBP core crew.


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## Corax (Sep 4, 2019)

EOS SH will be overpowered. They all have dreams of surpassing someone/reaching something and you know this is shounen with classic shounen power curve. EOS Luffy might even solo all RHP under certain circumstances and depending on his showcase vs final villain.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> Luffy's core crew will be garbage compared to RHP or BBP core crew.



if they fight now? yes ... low diff is TOO MUCH ... neg neg neg ... just picture some dust ... that's strew hats after fight



Corax said:


> EOS SH will be overpowered. They all have dreams of surpassing someone/reaching something and you know this is shounen with classic shounen power curve. *EOS Luffy might even solo all RHP under certain circumstances and depending on his showcase vs final villain.*



 *are those* *circumstances include super saiyan ultra instinct *


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## Corax (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> *are those* *circumstances include super saiyan ultra instinct *


No,just him soloing final villain. He currently can beat Doflamingo's family or Hody guys alone and we are only 200 chapters away (EOS will be around 200-250 chapters away).


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## Sherlōck (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> if they fight now? yes ... low diff is TOO MUCH ... neg neg neg ... just picture some dust ... that's strew hats after fight



We aren't talking about current crew though.


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## Dunno (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> wanking Zoro is good for getting likes ... sadly we live in an era that getting like matter more than logic and fairness


Maybe you take things too seriously?


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 4, 2019)

Roger’s crew had 4 top tiers: Roger, Rayleigh, Bullet, Oden. Scopper probably misses the cut


Luffy’s crew will also have 4: Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Jinbe


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## Corax (Sep 4, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Roger’s crew had 4 top tiers: Roger, Rayleigh, Bullet, Oden. Scopper probably misses the cut
> 
> 
> Luffy’s crew will also have 4: Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Jinbe


Bullet is filler. Though if he will appear in manga this might be true.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> We aren't talking about current crew though.


in Prime ... they are almost equal a bit more 



Dunno said:


> Maybe you take things too seriously?


no ... I did rate your post as funny ... so I get it

but I like to make once in a blue moon serious statements about new world life style ... for some reasons ... that I'm not sure what are they ...



xmysticgohanx said:


> Roger’s crew had 4 top tiers: Roger, Rayleigh, Bullet, Oden. Scopper probably misses the cut
> 
> 
> Luffy’s crew will also have 4: Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Jinbe



Jinbe is on his prime right now ... he is not a young one


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## Corax (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> man ... taking about RHP is not some thing even god can do ... there are not enough power up
> 
> people really think Luffy would that off chart??
> 
> ...


Prime Teach should be Luffy's rival for One Piece. Imu will be after. Almost impossible for them to be on the same lvl. Imu will be Luffy's biggest challenge as last boss of entire manga. So just simple scaling. Teach kills Shanks before Raftel,Luffy surpasses Teach at Raftel. Imu fights him in the end of the manga,Luffy somehow wins.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Corax said:


> Prime Teach should be Luffy's rival for One Piece. Imu will be after. Almost impossible for them to be on the same lvl. Imu will be Luffy's biggest challenge as last boss of entire manga.



maybe ... depend on how Teach would go down ... 

cause Luffy Vs Teach is a battle for RIGHTFUL HIRE to D clan

maybe Oda let the stronger one fall cause right is not about power

stories like this type of plot


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## Corax (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> maybe ... depend on how Teach would go down ...
> 
> cause Luffy Vs Teach is a battle for RIGHTFUL HIRE to D clan
> 
> ...


Well I can't remember Luffy not beating his arc villain opponent. Teach will be beaten and surpassed like any other arc villains. And we will likely see PIS Rubber vs awakened black hole+awakened gura. It will be fun to see how his plot shield tanks black hole and strongest gura strikes.


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## TheWiggian (Sep 4, 2019)

Stronger than Shanks, weaker than Mihawk

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Corax said:


> Well I can't remember Luffy not beating his arc villain opponent. Teach will be beaten and surpassed like any other arc villains. And we will likely see PIS Rubber vs awakened black hole+awakened gura. It will be fun to see how his plot shield tanks black hole and strongest gura strikes.



rules change when you are playing in the end ... we call it twist


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## Sherlōck (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> in Prime ... they are almost equal a bit more



SHC>BBP>RHP by the time Luffy will be PK.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> SHC>BBP>RHP by the time Luffy will be PK.



not by a big gap
and since Teach would be the strongest thing ever with no real limit (not cause of his men)

yes


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Jinbe is on his prime right now ... he is not a young one


 he will get the standard SH island boosts till EoS


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> he will get the standard SH island boosts till EoS



if he make it alive and if Oda be kind to him ... I mean old strew hats didn't get much of a buffs so far ... why should Jinbe?


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## Sherlōck (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> not by a big gap



It doesn't need to be a big gap. Being stronger is enough.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 4, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> It doesn't need to be a big gap. Being stronger is enough.


good .. cause no one were talking about that to being with ... so ... A for effort


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## Sherlōck (Sep 4, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> good .. cause no one were talking about that to being with ... so ... A for effort



You were talking about how BBP would lose 80% of his crew if he fights RHP.

If & when the fight will happen BBP would beat RHP without taking any loss on his core crew. And then SHP is going to beat the same BBP that beat RHP.

So while SHC won't be heaps and bounds above BBP, they will be at minimum same level as BBP that beat the RHP after Raftel.

There is a reason why all 3 pirate crew has 10 members. All of them are getting 1v1 fight .        

But good job defending RHP by embarrassing them more. I am sure Shanks will appreciate your "F+" effort .

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beast (Sep 4, 2019)

Strongest YFM, might be the weakest top tier.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 5, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> *If & when the fight will happen BBP would beat RHP without taking any loss on his core crew. And then SHP is going to beat the same BBP that beat RHP.*



I don't mind reading a fan fiction

but not a poor and stupidly written one

I guess you need to understand the basic logic in one piece then go and writer such thing unless you want to writer comedy ... in that case ... cute job


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## Sherlōck (Sep 5, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> I don't mind reading a fan fiction
> 
> but not a poor and stupidly written one
> 
> I guess you need to understand the basic logic in one piece then go and writer such thing unless you want to writer comedy ... in that case ... cute job





BB pirates destroyed WBP. Now it’s time for RHP. 

Snitches will get stitches. Don't cry when it will finally come true.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 5, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> BB pirates destroyed WBP. Now it’s time for RHP.
> 
> Snitches will get stitches. Don't cry when it will finally come true.



chapter 59087 in two piece

writer the whole thing , send it to me , I burn it and do the job for you

stop wasting people time with poor fan fiction and come back when you have some thing named argument

so ... never ... as it seem like


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## Sherlōck (Sep 5, 2019)

Denial is strong on this one.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 5, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> Denial is strong on this one.


and ego on you, sure ... we all should call your fan fictions facts ... 

I'll see your face when Oda shit on it 

you can leave the thread now , you are off topic and full of unrelated fan fiction and full of ego

#Typical_Troll


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## Sherlōck (Sep 5, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> we all should call your fan fictions facts ...



_"BBP will lose 80% of crew if they fight RHP." _is legit.

And saying BBP will beat RHP without losing any core member is fan fiction.



Red Admiral said:


> I'll see your face when Oda shit on it



Don't commit suicide when BBP murders all RHP members.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 5, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> _"BBP will lose 80% of crew if they fight RHP." _is legit.
> 
> And saying BBP will beat RHP without losing any core member is fan fiction.
> 
> ...



god you are a lost case

a Yonko crew Vs a Yonko crew having extremely close fight is legit
a Yonko crew low diff a Yonko is bullshit
the smiley faces not gonna give you are more argument ... even a monkey can see your argument is bullshit


don't worry darling , when BBP DARE fight RHP I be here ... to point fingers of people with like you who don't even have 1 present intelligent in one piece power levels or a what it take to writer a good fan fiction

betting against you is safest thing a man can do with his money , you can't lose to bullshit


I don't even waste my signature to quote you on Ben being at best YC1
and RHP would get low diff by BBP


just when it happened remind me to make fun of you

so don't waste my time by BSing in my thread


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## Old Man Van (Sep 5, 2019)

Preskip BB crew ran away from Akainu saying they werent ready, implying high diff at least with so.e dying. The RHP core crew alone wouldve massacred them back then.

A year ago, the BBP crushed a crippled yonko crew who didn't have their captain. Even now I say the RHP have the stronger core crew with BB's strength in comparison to Shanks being unknown.

Overall give it to the RHP. Beckman makes a big difference here.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 5, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> Preskip BB crew ran away from Akainu saying they werent ready, implying high diff at least with so.e dying. The RHP core crew alone wouldve massacred them back then.
> 
> A year ago, the BBP crushed a crippled yonko crew who didn't have their captain. Even now I say the RHP have the stronger core crew with BB's strength in comparison to Shanks being unknown.
> 
> Overall give it to the RHP. Beckman makes a big difference here.



no man ... Oda saved RHP for +22 years so they would get low diff by BBP with no screen time

I mean that's some thing to expect right? writers off screen a whole story arc about most mysterious characters in manga history like that to hype one of already overhyped people in story

this should be right , I'm so smart and I see this and no one can disagree with me ... I see this in my head so Oda will do the same  ... this is how logic work


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## Sherlōck (Sep 5, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> god you are a lost case
> 
> a Yonko crew Vs a Yonko crew having extremely close fight is legit
> a Yonko crew low diff a Yonko is bullshit
> the smiley faces not gonna give you are more argument ... even a monkey can see your argument is bullshit



Stop being a pathetic loser. And I am serious this time. 

No one said a fight between Yonko crew would be easy.
You are the one who said BBP would lose 80% of their crew if they fight RHP 



> don't worry darling, when BBP DARE fight RHP I be here ... to point fingers of people with like you who don't even have 1 present intelligent in one piece power levels or a what it take to writer a good fan fiction



Oh, darling how silly of me to comment on a future clash between RHP and BBP that Oda foreshadowed in MF. How Oda gave 10 crew members to both pirate crew. What a terrible fan fiction.



> betting against you is safest thing a man can do with his money , you can't lose to bullshit



If you bet on BBP then you won't lose any. But again, you are a pathetic loser screaming how great and awesome RHP 24/7.



> I don't even waste my signature to quote you on Ben being at best YC1



And please willfully cut out the *"for now"* part when you do it. 

Cause your ignorant ass failed to see that I kept the possibility of putting Ben being stronger than YC1 level if he shows feat to suggest that in the future. I even said that in my posts.



> and RHP would get low diff by BBP



Never said such. I even said, BBP won't be much stronger than RHP.

Also, please put the quote in your signature. Cause I am sure as hell going to put BBP will lose 80% of his crew if he fights RHP in my signature. 



> just when it happened remind me to make fun of you



Believe me, I am looking forward to that off-panel fight more than you.



> so don't waste my time by BSing in my thread



_"My Thread?"_

How old are you?


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## Red Admiral (Sep 5, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> Stop being a pathetic loser. And I am serious this time.
> 
> No one said a fight between Yonko crew would be easy.
> You are the one who said BBP would lose 80% of their crew if they fight RHP
> ...



and you can stop being stupid ass ... and I am serious too ...
if I'm losing and you are winning there is some thing wrong with scoreboard


unless you can't understand what extreme close fight means 80% is not illogical claim ... and why that's BBP won't fight RHP and than SHP in two different war ... cause they can't ... they lose too much on the first war... and low diff Shanks and lose to SHP is a new level of stupid ... so they would face RHP and SHP in same time as logic of power level demand it ... it's a fan fiction too ... but not a stupid and illogical one as RHP would get low diff by BBP ... as if the story arc of Shanks and his crew don't matter ...
yes there would be war/clash ... but RHP getting low diff by BBP is your claim honey not Oda/story ... and a pure bullshit
bet is not about who would win or lose ... bet is about BBP would beat all RHP in a war and not losing a single core member ... your claim ... in case you forgot ... and a bet any one can take and win free money
keep your insult for some one who care
sure ... if there was a off-panel lost for Shanks is as likely as you being sherlock ... so ... never ... atm you IQ is just a bit about Luffy's last name
this is my thread that I created in order that we talk about Benn power level ... your BS might cause it get close ... so yes ... get your fan fiction somewhere else


p.s

if Ben show feats above YC1 you would call him above YC1 ... 

god ...

now a days we need to give candy to people cause they follow the most basic type of logic ... wow

being  ignorant means just ignore all the hype for lack of feat ... you should know


I waste enough of my worthy time over your poor fan fiction argument and uncivil behavior with ...

I can't teach people basics human rules all day long

but don't worry ... when Oda proved your fan fiction to be FAR FROM TRUTH ... I would care enough to you just for making fun of you
[HASHTAG]#IGNORE[/HASHTAG]


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## Sherlōck (Sep 5, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> and you can stop being stupid ass ... and I am serious too ...
> 
> if I'm losing and you are winning there is some thing wrong with scoreboard



Your head is so far in your own ass you don't even smell your own bullshit anymore.



> unless you can't understand what extreme close fight means 80% is not illogical claim ... and why that's BBP won't fight RHP and than SHP in two different war ... cause they can't ... they lose too much on the first war... and low diff Shanks and lose to SHP is a new level of stupid ... so they would face RHP and SHP in same time as logic of power level demand it ... it's a fan fiction too ... but not a stupid and illogical one as RHP would get low diff by BBP ... as if the story arc of Shanks and his crew don't matter ...



So now, BBP won't fight RHP rather get ganged up on by both RHP & SHC?

And it's cause BBP otherwise would lose 80% of the crew if they fought RHP before & would be way too weak to fight SHC. This is the same BBP that has *legends *in their crew and beat WBP just a year before. Also clashed with CPO+Marines without taking any loses. 

And it's logical ?

WOW !



> yes there would be war/clash ... but *RHP getting low diff by BBP* is your claim honey not Oda/story ... and a pure bullshit



Show where I claimed it or STFU.



> bet is not about who would win or lose ... bet is about BBP would beat all RHP in a war and not losing a single core member ... your claim ... in case you forgot ... and a bet any one can take and win free money



BBP beat WBP without losing anyone. SHC has fought many times without losing someone.It won't be any different against RHP.

Just cause your opponent gives you a hard fight doesn't mean you are going to lose 80% of your force.



> keep your insult for some one who care
> 
> sure ... if there was a off-panel lost for Shanks is as likely as you being sherlock ... so ... never ... atm you IQ is just a bit about Luffy's last name



Your IQ is non-existent to begin with. It goes negative whever someone challenges your views about your precious Shanks & RHP.



> this is my thread that I created in order that we talk about Benn power level ... your BS might cause it get close ... so yes ... get your fan fiction somewhere else



If it gets closed, then it gets closed. 


> if Ben show feats above YC1 you would call him above YC1 ...
> 
> god ...
> 
> ...



So, I have to believe Beckman is above YC1 level even though he has shown zero feat support that, no hype in manga or SBS or Oda's interview but a single line from VC? 

Being gullible like that must suck. 



> but don't worry ... when Oda proved your fan fiction to be FAR FROM TRUTH ... I would care enough to you just for making fun of you



As I said, I am eagerly waiting for RHP Vs BBP.


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## Sherlōck (Sep 5, 2019)

@Red Admiral from the very start you have been disingenuous as fuck.


You focused on my secondary point about why I don't consider Ben >YC1 while ignoring my primary one.
You tried to make it look like my position on Ben's power level strictly comes from the future RHP Vs BBP foreshadowed by Oda and not because of his lack of feats.
You repeatedly made false claim about my view on how RHP Vs BBP will go. 
I would put you on ignore but looking at you scrambling to defend Shanks and RHP power levels has been one of my highlight from my OJ days. But I ain't going to respond to you anymore about topic concerning Shanks and RHP. Just like I don't discuss Zoro's power level with @Dunno.


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## Luke (Sep 5, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> in Prime ... they are almost equal a bit more



You think the current Straw Hats are almost as strong as they'll be at EOS?


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## Dunno (Sep 5, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> @Red Admiral from the very start you have been disingenuous as fuck.
> 
> 
> You focused on my secondary point about why I don't consider Ben >YC1 while ignoring my primary one.
> ...


We both know that the reason you don't do that is because you know that there is no way for you to come out of that discussion looking reasonable. It is a wise move, but bringing it up is less wise.


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## Sherlōck (Sep 5, 2019)

Dunno said:


> We both know that the reason you don't do that is because you know that there is no way for you to come out of that discussion looking reasonable. It is a wise move, but bringing it up is less wise.



Zoro came out of the TS as YFM level and Luffy has been playing catch up is sure more than reasonable argument.

My mistake to doubt the greatest grandmaster .


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## Dunno (Sep 5, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> Zoro came out of the TS as YFM level and Luffy has been playing catch up is sure more than reasonable argument.
> 
> My mistake to doubt the greatest grandmaster .


That is a misunderstanding of my position. What I argue is that depending on how much Zoro goes through before beating King, he might have come out of the TS close to YFM level, and in that case Luffy has been playing catch up the entire time. The difference is subtle but very substantial.


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## Sherlōck (Sep 6, 2019)

Dunno said:


> That is a misunderstanding of my position. What I argue is that depending on how much Zoro goes through before beating King, he might have come out of the TS close to YFM level, and in that case Luffy has been playing catch up the entire time. The difference is subtle but very substantial.



Not that I think that position is still cuckoo, now that Zoro is possibly getting two sword upgrade, one of which is hyped to capable of scaring Kaido what's your position now?


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## Dunno (Sep 6, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> Not that I think that position is still cuckoo, now that Zoro is possibly getting two sword upgrade, one of which is hyped to capable of scaring Kaido what's your position now?


If he does get both, that would most likely count as a significant upgrade. How significant would depend on how the new swords are portrayed. Now that he's gotten a blade that has scarred Kaido though, it's become more likely that he's going to play a major role in taking down Kaido instead, at which point we'll have to see what happens.

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Sep 7, 2019)

probably the strongest first mate


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## Lee-Sensei (Sep 9, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> The same people who will parrot Akainu's fruit having the highest offence among devil fruits,  will deny what is said about Beckmann.
> 
> He is comparable to Shanks who is stronger than any admiral. The databook even confirms that Kizaru took him seriously despite what the illiterates say.


Stronger than any Admiral? Citation needed.


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## ImpalerDragon (Sep 9, 2019)

The way i see it:

Shanks => Ben Backman = Kaidoh > Big Mam = Blackbeard >>> Yonko first mates like katakuri and king > Admiral


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## trance (Sep 10, 2019)

ImpalerDragon said:


> Ben Backman



benn beckman is the man in question

not his good friend ben backman

Reactions: Like 1


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## SomnusUltima (Sep 10, 2019)

stronger than mihawk but weaker than shanks

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kamina. (Sep 10, 2019)

ImpalerDragon said:


> The way i see it:
> 
> Shanks => Ben Backman = Kaidoh > Big Mam = Blackbeard >>> Yonko first mates like katakuri and king > Admiral



Are you from Oro Jackson?


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## MO (Sep 10, 2019)

Hes about as strong as the other first mates


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## Gohara (Sep 10, 2019)

Somewhat inferior to the yonkou/fleet admirals and superior to the other admirals/high ranking yonkou commanders


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## Lord Stark (Sep 10, 2019)

Beckman is probs on par with or a little weaker than Marco.  So the weakest top tier.


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## ImpalerDragon (Sep 21, 2019)

Kamina. said:


> Are you from Oro Jackson?



And what if i am?



Rakuyo said:


> benn beckman is the man in question
> 
> not his good friend ben backman



Excuse me?


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## Izaya X (Sep 23, 2019)

A low top tier FM
He can give a Admiral a middiff but not more.
Probably as strong as OLD RAYLEIGH (not prime).


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## Nox (Sep 25, 2019)

I am still waiting for a right hand who is not Rayleigh. That has proven themselves to be above Marco. Oda gave you flowery poetry and you convinced yourselves Beckman is an Emperor.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 25, 2019)

Astro said:


> I am still waiting for a right hand who is not Rayleigh. That has proven themselves to be above Marco. Oda gave you flowery poetry and you convinced yourselves Beckman is an Emperor.



I don't think there be a major gap between Katakuri and Marco

one have legit Haki other have legit DF

but the gap between Benn and Marco ... hmmm ... I'm kinda sure it's big enough


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## Gianfi (Sep 25, 2019)

Same level as King, Kata and Marco


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## Steven (Sep 25, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> but the gap between Benn and Marco ... hmmm ... I'm kinda sure it's big enough


Based on what?


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## Red Admiral (Sep 25, 2019)

Efege said:


> Based on what?



it's a personal thought ... I need proof for what I think?


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## gogcho (Sep 25, 2019)

^ No need for proof for fanboyism. We all like different characters.
One might argue that characters who are introduced later in the series, or having their respective arcs introduced later, tend to be more powerful than characters whose arcs happen before that. He could be stronger than the other FMs, but will be low to mid diff fight for the Emperors and the Admirals


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## Quipchaque (Sep 26, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> Same level as King, Kata and Marco



Hardly. Not after seeing how worried Marineford was about the few commanders Shanks has brought along to the war and about what the databook+future plot implies about Beckman. Shanks' crew looks like something exceptional.


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## Draco Bolton (Sep 28, 2019)

Shanks commanders seems different others Yonko commanders. That is clearly the impression I had after the last chapter.

So I say Beckman is current Luffy level... stronger than Kata and (probably) others YC1 but still far away Yonko level (yeah I think Luffy post-Udon is still far away from Kaido level).


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Sep 28, 2019)

Admiral level. He pissed Kizaru's pants with a paper pellet gun you know.


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 28, 2019)

Draco Bolton said:


> Shanks commanders seems different others Yonko commanders. That is clearly the impression I had after the last chapter.
> 
> So I say Beckman is current Luffy level... stronger than Kata and (probably) others YC1 but still far away Yonko level (yeah I think Luffy post-Udon is still far away from Kaido level).


 Beckman is certainly above Luffy.

I have Beckman >> current Luffy > Sabo > Marco >>> Katakuri


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