# God Realm Pain vs. Avatar State Aang



## Commander Shepard (Mar 26, 2009)

Battle takes place in the Konoha crater.  First they battle with the "only five seconds" observation considered valid, then they battle with Pain's speed powerscaled with the rest of his verse.  Aang starts out in the Avatar State with his element rings already assembled.

If in either situation Pain had to resort to Chibaku Tensei (not claiming he would, just speculating), how effective would it be on Aang?  If it simply works by trapping and crushing enemies with rocks, I think Aang could bend them out of the way and fly out.  It is, after all, the job of a flier/levitator to laugh at gravity.


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## Darth Nihilus (Mar 26, 2009)

...No.

Shinra Tensei kicks Aang back a few pegs, via the same way he did with Gamabunta and co.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 26, 2009)

So Aang can't get close to Pain.  What can Pain do to hurt Aang, then?

Also, I'm not sure if gravity would affect fire and air attacks.  Judging by Pain's durability feat to the chakra cannon, I don't think fire will do much...


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## Nihonjin (Mar 26, 2009)

**The fight start**
*God Realm:* _Shinra Tensei..._

That thing is powerful enough to break the bones of Gamabunta and send him and his giant friends flying through the air knocking them unconscious. Fragile little Aang won't be getting up ever again when he gets hit by it. And if by some miracle he doesn't instantly die from that and actually does manage to get up:

*God Realm:* _Bansho Tenin..._
**Stab**

He gets stomped.


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## mystictrunks (Mar 26, 2009)

Aang loses.


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## The World (Mar 26, 2009)

Manwë Súlimo said:


> If in either situation Pain had to resort to Chibaku Tensei (not claiming he would, just speculating), how effective would it be on Aang?  If it simply works by trapping and crushing enemies with rocks, I think Aang could bend them out of the way and fly out.  It is, after all, the job of a flier/levitator to laugh at gravity.



I think he could bend away most of the rocks, but the force of the gravity well pulling him in would probably too much for him to handle and he will ultimately be crushed, unless he goes Avatar State or something.


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## Herekic (Mar 26, 2009)

Bansho tenin.


aang gets stabbed in the heart.


/thread.


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## Darth Nihilus (Mar 26, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> So Aang can't get close to Pain.  What can Pain do to hurt Aang, then?
> 
> Also, I'm not sure if gravity would affect fire and air attacks.  Judging by Pain's durability feat to the chakra cannon, I don't think fire will do much...





Miyamoto Musashi said:


> ...No.
> 
> Shinra Tensei kicks Aang back a few pegs, via the same way he did with Gamabunta and co.



^

Nothing more needs to be said, to be quite frank.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 26, 2009)

Nihonjin said:


> **The fight start**
> *God Realm:* _Shinra Tensei..._
> 
> That thing is powerful enough to break the bones of Gamabunta and send him and his giant friends flying through the air knocking them unconscious. Fragile little Aang won't be getting up ever again when he gets hit by it. And if by some miracle he doesn't instantly die from that and actually does manage to get up:
> ...



It broke Bunta's bones?  I remember the frogs getting thrown back, but I don't remember that detail. Scan please? Also, how could a gravitational force break anything?  It just moves things.  Damage could be done by smashing enemies into hard things, but Aang can avoid that with flight control and even if he doesn't smashing him into earth wouldn't do much.

EDIT:  I found the scan, and nothing about it indicates that the push itself is what hurt the toads, nor that it "broke Gamabunta's bones".  Stop making stuff up. They got smashed into the surroundings and that's what damaged them.



			
				Roxxas said:
			
		

> I think he could bend away most of the rocks, but the force of the gravity well pulling him in would probably too much for him to handle and he will ultimately be crushed, unless he goes Avatar State or something.



OP says Aang is in the Avatar State at the beginning of the fight.  The gravity well wasn't so much that SM Naruto was pulled down by it- he easily stood up on the surface.


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## Nihonjin (Mar 26, 2009)

Manwë Súlimo said:


> I found the scan, and nothing about it indicates that the push itself is what hurt the toads, nor that it "broke Gamabunta's bones".  Stop making stuff up. They got smashed into the surroundings and that's what damaged them.



and bad
^Now it comes down to whether you take his word for it or not.

The push itself is definitely damaging. Or do you honestly think Bunta would get completely knocked out just from rolling over a couple of trees?


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## Onomatopoeia (Mar 26, 2009)

Avatar Aang can defy gravity.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 26, 2009)

@Nihonjin:  Ah.  Sorry, I only looked up the chapter before.

But that looks a little rougher than just "rolling over a couple of trees"

Kakashi said he was unprepared


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## The World (Mar 26, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> OP says Aang is in the Avatar State at the beginning of the fight.  The gravity well wasn't so much that SM Naruto was pulled down by it- he easily stood up on the surface.



The technique and pull had stopped already and it was kind of in a "statis" mode.


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## Nihonjin (Mar 26, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> @Nihonjin:  Ah.  Sorry, I only looked up the chapter before.
> 
> But that looks a little rougher than just "rolling over a couple of trees"
> 
> still fight



Sure, a bit rough, but that fall wasn't more damaging than a blast from Shukaku which Bunta tanked relatively easy. If the push wasn't damaging he wouldn't have stayed down.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 26, 2009)

The pull hadn't stopped- how do you think the rocks stayed on it?


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## The World (Mar 26, 2009)

Then why weren't more trees/debris/rocks/mountains being picked up? The technique was over, it appeared to be in some sort of "stasis" mode.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 27, 2009)

Maybe they were out of the technique's range?  It couldn't have been "over", the ball was still holding together.  KN8, while it broke out of the rocks, was still held by the gravity.

Nihonjin:  Bunta tanked a single air bullet, and it didn't toss him around like Shinra Tensei did.  _Gravity pushes don't hurt._  Have you ever known someone who got hurt skydiving before they hit the ground?  The push hurts by throwing people against hard stuff.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 27, 2009)

That analogy is completely retarded, when you jump from a plane you accelerate at 1g, if you get hit by something that can toss huge-ass frogs that far I'm fairly certain you would be dealing with at least thousands of gs


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 27, 2009)

"Hit"?  You don't get "hit" by gravity.  My point is Shinra Tensei simply moves objects, it doesn't "hit" objects with a force.  The damage is done by whatever the gravity makes the target slam into, or, in the case of stationary objects, like Konoha buildings, uproots them from their foundations.

Of course, I could easily be refuted by a scan of Shinra Tensei hurting someone without slamming the person into a hard object.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 27, 2009)

Please look up the effects of acceleration on a human body and get back to me.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 27, 2009)

You could probably google that anyway


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Mar 27, 2009)

Pein destroyed Kakashi's stone wall jutsu and knocked him back all at once with his weakest Shinra-tensai. Later Pein knocked several ninja's unconcious, shattered the bones of 3 giant summons sending them hurtling for miles, and destroyed a village. No other proof is needed Shinra-tensai causes massive impact'ese' damage from hitting unless you're retarded or masturbating and have gone blind. Incidently, Aang is fooder to any Naruto high-tier character.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 28, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> Please look up the effects of acceleration on a human body and get back to me.



Yeah, fast enough acceleration tears the body apart and/or makes it go unconscious.  Too bad Pain's never thrown anyone at that speed...


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## Banhammer (Mar 28, 2009)

Aang uses earth sight to know exactly where Pein is at the begining of the fight. Taps the floor and drops him on lava.
Also, with five whole seconds to cast steel vaporizing fire kaiten make this an easy rape thread.


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## Platinum (Mar 28, 2009)

Bansho Tenin and stab through the skull wins this for Pain.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 28, 2009)

No simple blade is getting through Aang's air shield.


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## Kage no Yume (Mar 28, 2009)

Shinra Tensei ownage, or Bansho Tenin and a fatal stabbing.


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## Banhammer (Mar 28, 2009)

BY GOD YES, GET THE SPINNING BALL OF STEEL VAPORIZING FIRE CLOSER TO YOUR FACE, YOU SODDIN NICARAGUAN MISCREANT GENIUS!
And whatever you do, do not try to save your main body from having been melted IN FUCKING LAVA.
Yes, I used the past tense on purpose. Because you were too busy GETTING THE SPINNING BALL OF STEEL VAPORIZING FIRE CLOSER TO YOUR FACE


God, I swear, one of these days...


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## The World (Mar 28, 2009)

Butthurt much? God Realm crushes him.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Mar 28, 2009)

Considering Aang's earth sight has been shown to be only a few meters, it has no comparison to Toph's which is a kilometer or two. Pain will be flying to dodge the incoming projectiles. Aang, of course, will fly too and probably better than Pain, but Pain will be blasting shinra tensei at him the entire time.

How much gravity would Pain have had to manipulate below the ground to cause the ground to actually become concave?


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## Banhammer (Mar 28, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> Butthurt much? God Realm crushes him.



Atonishing reply. Concession denied.


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## Antitard (Mar 28, 2009)

Are people still arguing about this?


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## Red (Mar 29, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> Yeah, fast enough acceleration tears the body apart and/or makes it go unconscious.  Too bad Pain's never thrown anyone at that speed...


I don't even think you _know_ what acceleration is.


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## potential (Mar 29, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> Atonishing reply. Concession denied.



Please tell me your joking in this thread.


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## Banhammer (Mar 29, 2009)

I would self quote myself ftw.

Yeah, village busting is pretty, landscape busting and island fucking is much better.
And for all that show, he's still not imune to lava so do be good.


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## Antitard (Mar 29, 2009)

The thing is, he didn't do it with force, he manipulated the elements. So I don't see how making fissures is going to help here when God Realm can fly. God Realm nuked a village via force of his shinra tensei, not be merely splitting the land. 

So let's pit them together

Aang splits and island and does absolutely nothing to harm his opponents, except to make it harder to maneuver, oh but God Realm just flies. Shinra tensei is enough to splatter Aang.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 29, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> Yeah, fast enough acceleration tears the body apart and/or makes it go unconscious.  Too bad Pain's never thrown anyone at that speed...



*headdesk*

Are you honestly that dense? Shinra Tensei hitting a solid object will subject it to an acceleration force - a human being passes out at around 7 gs. The amount of gs needed to fling a 100-foot frog across a village is going to be a hell of a lot more than that.

Acceleration is change in velocity/time

Being hit by a gravity wave that can do that is going to impart a fuckton of acceleration to the target. Aang would die when it hit him.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 29, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> *headdesk*
> 
> Are you honestly that dense? Shinra Tensei hitting a solid object will subject it to an acceleration force - a human being passes out at around 7 gs. *The amount of gs needed to fling a 100-foot frog across a village is going to be a hell of a lot more than that.*
> 
> ...



Actually, no.  Mass doesn't matter when it comes to gravity.  If a human was dropped from 1000 feet and a huge toad was dropped at 1000 feet they'd fall at about the same speed.  A toad would still fall at 1g.

So, still.  Pain hasn't launched anyone fast enough to tear apart their bodies or make them pass out.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 29, 2009)

Are you being willfully ignorant now? Acceleration = change in speed/time. If that shockwave hit a human it would launch them at a much higher speed than the frogs, since they are less massive. And the time is a fraction of a second. Aang would die from being hit by that.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 29, 2009)

If a frog jumps from 1000 feet, it will fall just like a human does.  At 1g.  Pushing around frogs doesn't imply an incredible amount of gs.  It implies Shinra Tensei has a large AoE, but not incredible power.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 29, 2009)

Then why was it able to move such massive creatures?


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 29, 2009)

1g will make a jumbo jet fall from the sky.  Moving big things does _not_ imply incredible amounts of gs.  Otherwise we wouldn't put so much effort into keeping planes in the sky once they get there.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 29, 2009)

It does if they are already sitting on the ground. It's not like he reversed gravity and made them fall up instead, normal gravity was still in action (as evidence by the ballistic trajectory they were launched at).


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 29, 2009)

How?  Sure, Pain had to counteract normal gravity a bit.  Pain's power is probably a couple gs above 1.  But still, moving huge things does not necessitate huge amounts of gs.  Pain does not have a feat of moving people with enough gs that they pass out.  Naruto remained conscious during their whole fight.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Mar 29, 2009)

We can answer all this by estimating the velocity at which he threw the frogs.

Distance = Center of Konoha to outside of Konoha
Time = A few seconds?

Considering the KN6 blast crater had a diameter of 1km, and that was dwarfed by all of Konoha, he must have thrown those frogs a few kilometers in a few seconds time.

Anybody have a reliable guess, because I have sincere doubts it was 1g.


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## Kage no Yume (Mar 29, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> How?  Sure, Pain had to counteract normal gravity a bit.  Pain's power is probably a couple gs above 1.  But still, moving huge things does not necessitate huge amounts of gs.  Pain does not have a feat of moving people with enough gs that they pass out.  Naruto remained conscious during their whole fight.



You seem to be under the impression that Shinra Tensei is a constant gravitational force that provides a continuous acceleration (i.e. like Earth's gravity).

*It's not* (except in the case of Chibaku Tensei ).  It's an instantaneous wave of force that, as mentioned above, sends the opponents flying at insane speeds in a very short amount of time.

And of course Naruto and others remained conscious.  They're all superhuman, whereas Aang is only peak human at best without his bending.  And bending ain't going to do much good when he's unconscious, or when he's hit by a surprise Bansho Tenin.



Also, have you even considered the speed difference?  Pain was keeping up with Kakashi's movements and hand to hand combat before he revealed his power.


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## The World (Mar 29, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> How?  Sure, Pain had to counteract normal gravity a bit.  Pain's power is probably a couple gs above 1.  But still, moving huge things does not necessitate huge amounts of gs.  Pain does not have a feat of moving people with enough gs that they pass out.  Naruto remained conscious during their whole fight.



I don't remember once Pain using Shinra Tensei even on Naruto just Bansho Tenin. He used it on Hinata and she passed out.


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## Dexion (Mar 29, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> Actually, no.  Mass doesn't matter when it comes to gravity.  If a human was dropped from 1000 feet and a huge toad was dropped at 1000 feet they'd fall at about the same speed.  A toad would still fall at 1g.
> 
> So, still.  Pain hasn't launched anyone fast enough to tear apart their bodies or make them pass out.



I think your confused, in this case Shinra Tensei is using this as concussive force. You get hit by the acceleration and it can do damage to you if its enough G's
The same amount of G's will hurl a basketball a mile but won't hurl a building a mile.


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## Blaizen (Mar 30, 2009)

Maybe you've forgotten this page:

chakra

Deva used shinra tensei to casually crush a massive chakra powered wall to dust.

Unless Aang can tank that its over for him.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 30, 2009)

Kage no Yume said:


> You seem to be under the impression that Shinra Tensei is a constant gravitational force that provides a continuous acceleration (i.e. like Earth's gravity).
> 
> *It's not* (except in the case of Chibaku Tensei ).  It's an instantaneous wave of force that, as mentioned above, sends the opponents flying at insane speeds in a very short amount of time.



His power is defined as gravity.  It is gravity.  It acts like gravity.



> And of course Naruto and others remained conscious.  They're all superhuman, whereas Aang is only peak human at best without his bending.  And bending ain't going to do much good when he's unconscious, or when he's hit by a surprise Bansho Tenin.



They are superhumans, but they have no previous feats of resisting acceleration.



			
				Roxxas said:
			
		

> I don't remember once Pain using Shinra Tensei even on Naruto just Bansho Tenin. He used it on Hinata and she passed out.



Hinata "passed out" because she got stabbed with Pain's blades.



			
				Dexion said:
			
		

> I think your confused, in this case Shinra Tensei is using this as concussive force. You get hit by the acceleration and it can do damage to you if its enough G's
> The same amount of G's will hurl a basketball a mile but won't hurl a building a mile.



1g will make a basketball fall and a building fall (if it's high up).



			
				Blaizen said:
			
		

> Maybe you've forgotten this page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What happens to a wall when it's flipped sideways?  It falls apart!


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## Quelsatron (Mar 30, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> His power is defined as gravity.  It is gravity.  It acts like gravity.


Shinra tensei has way more in common with TK than with gravity.




> They are superhumans, but they have no previous feats of resisting acceleration.


Hur hur hur durability


> What happens to a wall when it's flipped sideways?  It falls apart!


That wall looked way more like it was blown up by a shockwave than if it would be dropped.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 30, 2009)

Quelsatron said:


> Shinra tensei has way more in common with TK than with gravity.



It's defined as a gravity attack.  No getting around it.



> Hur hur hur durability



Durability to hits _outside_ the body.  Acceleration makes people pass out by messing with their insides, screwing up blood circulation to the brain, etc.  Ninjas don't have any feats of resistance to that.



> That wall looked way more like it was blown up by a shockwave than if it would be dropped.



I disagree.


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## Quelsatron (Mar 30, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> It's defined as a gravity attack.  No getting around it.


Just saying, shinra tensei barely is gravity related.




> Durability to hits _outside_ the body.  Acceleration makes people pass out by messing with their insides, screwing up blood circulation to the brain, etc.  Ninjas don't have any feats of resistance to that.


They'd have to have internal durability, otherwise every superpowered punch or bomb would reduce their insides to soup.




> I disagree.


So if you would drop, lets say, a house made out of lego from a meters height it would explode in it's consistent bricks the moment you let your grip go?

Dumbest fucking thing i have ever heard


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## Fang (Mar 30, 2009)

Even Deva-Pain could block exchange blows with Senjutsu Naruto. Aang is raped. Anyway Deva-Pain's power involve attraction and repulsion. " Gravitic " is just some technobabble nonsense Kakashi created.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Mar 30, 2009)

Manwë Súlimo said:


> I disagree.



Despite the fact that it doesn't even remotely look like a wall that gets knocked over, but looks more like it was blasted apart with force?


It looks like a shock-wave was shot from his body. You even see the shock-wave hit Kakashi and the area around him.

Since I have never heard of shooting gravity as gravity does nothing but _pull_, he must be manipulating gravity in a perfect bubble around him to pull away his opponents, though that would cause some of the debris to hover in air as it is being pulled on equal gravity from all sides.

If that is your argument, then he couldn't have "thrown" the toads at all, just have manipulated a gravity well behind them to pull them towards it. But, guess what? You'd have seen everything else in Konoha go flying at it as well.

Chibaku Tensei is the only part that actually looks like Gravity manipulation is involved.


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## Kage no Yume (Mar 30, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> His power is defined as gravity.  It is gravity.  It acts like gravity.



...

Shinra Tensei does not act like gravity.  It's not a constant pull or push, but a blast of force.  Furthermore, as TWF mentioned, Kakashi described Pain's power as that of "repulsion" and "attraction", not gravity.

And when you apply a huge amount of force in a very short amount of time (e.g. Shinra Tensei) it might as well be a physical strike.  Shinra Tensei is basically a shockwave, which can indeed be compared to a TK attack.  A TK attack strong enough to send three giant toads flying over a kilometer in a few seconds.





> They are superhumans, but they have no previous feats of resisting acceleration.



You know, except for moving with insane bursts of speed, as well as not being knocked out by shinra tensei.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 30, 2009)

Ok, then.  It's not real gravity.  Aang should be able to dampen the shockwave with airbending so the blast doesn't break him, and use airbending to stay in one place.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Mar 30, 2009)

Except when two forces bump into each other, the superior force wins. In this case, crushing a city, throwing 200 meter tall toads, and tearing apart the ground defeats any air bending feats Aang has shown.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 30, 2009)

I know it's Roku, but elemental feats of past Avatars apply to Aang when he's AS.

Even if Pain's push is superior, it would be weakened enough so that Aang's body wouldn't be knocked out, or worse, by it.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Mar 30, 2009)

He blew smoke away. The best any Avatar air bending I remember is Aang pushing so much air that it shredded a stone pillar.


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## Nihonjin (Mar 31, 2009)

Manwë Súlimo said:


> I know it's Roku, but elemental feats of past Avatars apply to Aang when he's AS.
> 
> Even if Pain's push is superior, it would be weakened enough so that Aang's body wouldn't be knocked out, or worse, by it.



*Scenario 1*
*God Realm:* _Shinra Tensei..._ 
**Aang dies**
1 2 3

*Scenario 2*
*God Realm:* _Bansho Tenin..._
**Snaps neck* stabbing would work too >.>
*Aang dies**
1 2 3

Unlikely *Scenario 3*
*God Realm* _Shinra Tensei..._
**Aang gets crippled*
**God Realm:* _Your death will lead to peace.
_*Aang:* _What the hell are you ta-_
**stab*
*Aang dies**
1 2

Take your pick.

Either way, Aang (or any other Avatar for that matter) does not have what it takes to stop or even weaken the blast enough for him to be able to survive it. And even if he did, he'd have to know what's coming to be able to defend against it so it doesn't really matter.

At best, he doesn't instantly die, but gets knocked out like Hinata followed by a fatal stab to the eye.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 31, 2009)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> He blew smoke away. The best any Avatar air bending I remember is Aang pushing so much air that it shredded a stone pillar.



Plain smoke?  No.  It was a .  Very destructive.  It was wiping out those buildings as it came down the volcano.  Roku stopped it.



Nihonjin said:


> *Scenario 1*
> *God Realm:* _Shinra Tensei..._
> **Aang dies**
> 1 2 3
> ...



You seem to be under the illusion that Aang has plain human durability.

Gets a large stone desk slammed into him.  Unfazed.



Smashes into a rock wall, gets back up moments later.



That's not human durability.

There is, also, his AS airshield smashing through multiple rock pillars when chasing Ozai.  It'll take more than a few pushes to bring Aang down.

Stabbing and pulling won't work, either.  You see, if Pain pulls Aang towards him, he pulls the element rings and air shield with him.  Pain would slam into the airshield and wouldn't reach Aang to stab him.


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## Nihonjin (Mar 31, 2009)

Manwë Súlimo said:


> You seem to be under the illusion that Aang has plain human durability.
> 
> Gets a large stone desk slammed into him.  Unfazed.
> 
> ...



What's your point? Sure, he's more durable than your average human, but he still won't be getting up from an attack that one-shot Bunta. 



> There is, also, his AS airshield smashing through multiple rock pillars when chasing Ozai.  *It'll take more than a few pushes to bring Aang down.*



Luckily we're not talking about a simple push, but a massive shockwave.



> Stabbing and pulling won't work, either.  You see, if Pain pulls Aang towards him, he pulls the element rings and air shield with him.  Pain would slam into the airshield and wouldn't reach Aang to stab him.



How exactly is Aangs airshield going to prevent God Realm from stabbing him?
Do you really think he'll have any trouble going straight through it?


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 31, 2009)

Nihonjin said:


> What's your point? Sure, he's more durable than your average human, but he still won't be getting up from an attack that one-shot Bunta.



At least part of that damage was done by Bunta smashing into the ground, which Aang can avoid.  And, since it's a "massive shockwave", Aang won't be hit by as much of the wave as Bunta was.  Pain doesn't seem to focus his wave.



> Luckily we're not talking about a simple push, but a massive shockwave.



Massive shockwave, meet massive airshield.



> How exactly is Aangs airshield going to prevent God Realm from stabbing him?
> Do you really think he'll have any trouble going straight through it?



Judging by how season 1 Aang's airshield pwned arrows


And how AS Aang's airshield smashed through several rock pillars, yeah God Realm's not stabbing through it.


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## Nihonjin (Mar 31, 2009)

Manwë Súlimo said:


> At least part of that damage was done by Bunta smashing into the ground, which Aang can avoid.



That's minor extra damage. It's the actual blast that messed him up. Stop denying it...



> *And, since it's a "massive shockwave", Aang won't be hit by as much of the wave as Bunta was.*



You wish..lol
By "massive" I meant powerful.



> Pain doesn't seem to focus his wave.



He can.



> Massive shockwave, meet massive airshield.



Because it won't just get blasted away along with Aang, right?



> Judging by how season 1 Aang's airshield pwned arrows



 That's amazing 



> And how AS Aang's airshield smashed through several rock pillars, yeah God Realm's not stabbing through it.



Really, this is Pain we're talking about. The bodies are able to exchange blows with SM Jiraiya & Naruto and God Realm tanked a blast from KN6 Naruto and a kick from SM Naruto without turning into goo. He won't have trouble going through Aangs air.


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## RWB (Mar 31, 2009)

Um, wasn't it concluded that he avoided KN6's blast?


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## Nihonjin (Mar 31, 2009)

Judging by his clothes I'd say he was caught in the blast.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 31, 2009)

Nihonjin said:


> That's minor extra damage. It's the actual blast that messed him up. Stop denying it...



Did Bunta state "That blast broke every bone in my body"?  No.  He just said "It feels like every bone in my body is broken".



> He can.



Proof, please.



> Because it won't just get blasted away along with Aang, right?



Judging by how it stopped a pyroclastic flow that was destroying his village... no, no it won't.



> Really, this is Pain we're talking about. The bodies are able to exchange blows with SM Jiraiya & Naruto and God Realm tanked a blast from KN6 Naruto and a kick from SM Naruto without turning into goo. He won't have trouble going through Aangs air.



Durability feats do nothing to prove that Pain could get _through_ the shield.  Sure, he himself would be fine if he smacked into it.  But he's not getting through it.


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## Shock Therapy (Mar 31, 2009)

Besides Chibaku Tensei, Pain can't hurt Aang so I don't know what nonsense everyone is spouting with Shinra Tensei and shit. I've never seen Shinra Tensei hit something 5 kilometres in the air. Aang stays in the air and spams railgun rocks, Pain ain't tanking much of those since his other bodies were being one-punched by Naruto.


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## Nihonjin (Mar 31, 2009)

Manwë Súlimo said:


> Did Bunta state "That blast broke every bone in my body"?  No.  He just said "It feels like every bone in my body is broken".



Like I said before, Bunta took a full blast from Shukaku and it didn't do much, so unless you're willing to argue that falling is more damaging than a direct hit from a Bijuu, I'd say it was Shinra Tensei that fucked him up.



> Proof, please.




Even Sasuke's Sharingan couldn't keep up with Itachi.

^All directions

Even Sasuke's Sharingan couldn't keep up with Itachi.
Even Sasuke's Sharingan couldn't keep up with Itachi.

^Focussed

Really, obviously he can control the power & radius of the blast.



> Judging by how it stopped a pyroclastic flow that was destroying his village... no, no it won't.



This is going to turn into a "Yes it will. - No it won't" argument.
Not going to bother.



> Durability feats do nothing to prove that Pain could get _through_ the shield.  Sure, he himself would be fine if he smacked into it.  But he's not getting through it.



Based on how easily and far Pain hit Jiraiya through a tick wall and was able to take his arm even though he was in SM, I'd say he has enough force to go through any shield Aang puts up.

And even if you were right and he can't stab through the shield and Aang is able to survive Shinra Tensei then he can still use _Chou Shinra Tensei_ or _Chibaku Tensei_...

God Realm stomps him.


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## Euraj (Mar 31, 2009)

Really? This is a thread? The little bugger isn't puny, but he's not going to beat Pain. I'd like to see him try to get out of this.


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## Commander Shepard (Apr 1, 2009)

Nihonjin said:


> Like I said before, Bunta took a full blast from Shukaku and it didn't do much, so unless you're willing to argue that falling is more damaging than a direct hit from a Bijuu, I'd say it was Shinra Tensei that fucked him up.



Sure.  Slamming into the ground due to ST is on the same level as Shukaku's hit.




> Even If Hidan manages to do this to himself, Oro might still regenerate from that
> 
> ^All directions
> 
> ...



Point taken.  How about focused at long range?



> Based on how easily and far Pain hit Jiraiya through a tick wall and was able to take his arm even though he was in SM, I'd say he has enough force to go through any shield Aang puts up.



Scans please.



> And even if you were right and he can't stab through the shield and Aang is able to survive Shinra Tensei then he can still use _Chou Shinra Tensei_ or _Chibaku Tensei_...



It was already concluded that Aang could escape Chibaku Tensei, and as for Chou Shinra Tensei- bad idea.  It takes a bit of prep time, so Aang could move out of range.  Then it leaves Pain unable to use ST for several minutes.


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## Stan Lee (Apr 1, 2009)

Rape stomp........


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## Nihonjin (Apr 1, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> Sure.  Slamming into the ground due to ST is on the same level as Shukaku's hit.



You can't seriously be arguing that the fall was more damaging than the blast of a full Bijuu, that's just stupid.



> Point taken.  How about focused at long range?



No such scan exists, but logically he should be able to do that too.



> Scans please.



Even If Hidan manages to do this to himself, Oro might still regenerate from that
Even If Hidan manages to do this to himself, Oro might still regenerate from that



> It was already concluded that Aang could escape Chibaku Tensei



Bullshit. Even though he can earthbend, the gravity would crush him.



> and as for Chou Shinra Tensei- bad idea. * It takes a bit of prep time, so Aang could move out of range. * Then it leaves Pain unable to use ST for several minutes.



It doesn't take prep. And Aang doesn't move fast enough to get out of range, not to mention he wouldn't have any reason to because he doesn't know what's coming.

So again, God Realm kills him easily, or overkills him with CST or CT.


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## Commander Shepard (Apr 1, 2009)

Nihonjin said:


> You can't seriously be arguing that the fall was more damaging than the blast of a full Bijuu, that's just stupid.



If it's so obvious, why not prove it wrong?



> No such scan exists, but logically he should be able to do that too.



Explain your logic, then.



> a New HSDK is out, Kensei imppresive.
> a New HSDK is out, Kensei imppresive.



It's unclear just how Pain hit Jiraiya.



> Bullshit. Even though he can earthbend, the gravity would crush him.



Aang lols at the gravity and flies out.



> It doesn't take prep. And Aang doesn't move fast enough to get out of range, not to mention he wouldn't have any reason to because he doesn't know what's coming.



Flying up into the sky instead of just doing it...

Sounds like prep time to me.


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## Grrblt (Apr 1, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> So Aang can't get close to Pain.  What can Pain do to hurt Aang, then?
> 
> *Also, I'm not sure if gravity would affect fire and air attacks.*  Judging by Pain's durability feat to the chakra cannon, I don't think fire will do much...



Fuuton: Rasenshuriken is an air attack (wind = moving air) and Pein's power worked just fine against it.


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## Commander Shepard (Apr 1, 2009)

It's not entirely wind, but also chakra.


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## Nihonjin (Apr 1, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> If it's so obvious, why not prove it wrong?



It's a stupid claim.



> Explain your logic, then.



I already showed you he can control the power, range and radius of his attack. So logically if his target is within range of his attack, he can focus on it.



> It's unclear just how Pain hit Jiraiya.



The bodies can only use one technique and It doesn't seem like it was one of those. So it was a kick/punch/body check/whatever. Either way, to make him fly through such a thick wall requires ridiculous strength. Air won't be much of a problem.



> Aang lols at the gravity and flies out.



Funny, the way I see it he turns into a pancake under the pressure.



> Flying up into the sky instead of just doing it...
> 
> Sounds like prep time to me.



That wasn't prep, that was retreating.
He gathered the bodies in a safe spot, deactivated all but God Realm, talked to Konan and then used it. In this fight he won't need to retreat because it's just Aang, he won't need to worry about the bodies because they're not here and neither is Konan. So the only "prep" will be him saying '_Chou Shinra Tensei_' before Aang gets blown out of existence.


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## Quelsatron (Apr 1, 2009)

Gravity obviously affects air, otherwise you and me would be suffocating after the earths atmosphere GTFO'ed.


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## Grrblt (Apr 1, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> It's not entirely wind, but also chakra.



So? It didn't just repel the chakra. It repelled the whole thing. We saw the same thing with Kakashi's doton wall; not only his chakra was repelled, the whole wall was. The raw material used for elemental jutsu can be repelled without problem, even without them being part of a jutsu at that time (village-sized shinra tensei repelled a lot of dirt).


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## Xaosin (Apr 1, 2009)

Pein wins this one. Ironically, his powers are the perfect match for a landscape-fucker that spews out elements.

Gravity can overpower>Fire/Water/Earth (Assuming Pein doesn't clutch to the ground often) and air.

Any projectile-spamming opponent would be F*cked against pein, and this practially defines Aangs fighting style. Even Aangs greatest air feats wouldn't be able to breach ST, and when he uses them their never spamable so he can't break Peins 5-second rule (which is always his downfall). 

I am under the impression Chibaku Tensei is at its strongest when it starts and weakens after it finalizes (as it stops attracting debris). If 6-tailed Naruto can't break out of it Aang has no chance, his wind abilitys are purely attack based and couldn't help him against being repelled to the center and being made an open target for mr.stabby .

And also Peins ST is NOT Gravity based, it is much more of a TK move. Which sucks really because than he could just go Vader on his opponents or gravity-crush them to death.

*Pein wins with minor difficulty,but it last longer if Aang has the balls to run away when this starts.*


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## Atlantic Storm (Apr 2, 2009)

Bansho Tennin, Choke slam and black rods to the penis, the forehead and the heart to finish it


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## ScreenXSurfer (Apr 2, 2009)

So are we going to continue calling gravity when we already showed that it isn't except in one case?


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## Grrblt (Apr 2, 2009)

It's easier to call it gravity rather than force. Especially on a forum where people think that "700 tons" is a force.


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## Commander Shepard (Apr 2, 2009)

Nihonjin said:
			
		

> I already showed you he can control the power, range and radius of his attack. So logically if his target is within range of his attack, he can focus on it.



Ok, he can do it at close range.  That does not prove he can do it at long range.



> The bodies can only use one technique and It doesn't seem like it was one of those. So it was a kick/punch/body check/whatever. Either way, to make him fly through such a thick wall requires ridiculous strength. Air won't be much of a problem.



I just realized something.  It wasn't God Realm who knocked Jiraiya through the wall.  The feat is irrelevant to this thread.



> Funny, the way I see it he turns into a pancake under the pressure.



When has CT turned _anything_ into a "pancake"?



> That wasn't prep, that was retreating.
> He gathered the bodies in a safe spot, deactivated all but God Realm, talked to Konan and then used it. In this fight he won't need to retreat because it's just Aang, he won't need to worry about the bodies because they're not here and neither is Konan. So the only "prep" will be him saying 'Chou Shinra Tensei' before Aang gets blown out of existence.



He doesn't have his other bodies to draw chakra from.



herewegodudes said:


> Gravity can overpower>Fire/Water/Earth (Assuming Pein doesn't clutch to the ground often) and air.



Wait a sec...



			
				herewegodudes said:
			
		

> And also Peins ST is NOT Gravity based,



Come back when you aren't contradicting yourself.



			
				Grrblt said:
			
		

> So? It didn't just repel the chakra. It repelled the whole thing. We saw the same thing with Kakashi's doton wall; not only his chakra was repelled, the whole wall was. The raw material used for elemental jutsu can be repelled without problem, even without them being part of a jutsu at that time (village-sized shinra tensei repelled a lot of dirt).



It probably mainly affected the chakra, which pulled the wind part with it.



			
				Quelsatron said:
			
		

> Gravity obviously affects air, otherwise you and me would be suffocating after the earths atmosphere GTFO'ed.



Make up your minds, people.  Is ST real gravity or not?


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## The World (Apr 2, 2009)

Oh noes sannin3 dupe.





















Just kidding.


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## Banhammer (Apr 2, 2009)

Pain > Steel now?


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## Quelsatron (Apr 2, 2009)

Grrblt said:


> It's easier to call it gravity rather than force. Especially on a forum where people think that "700 tons" is a force.



Gravity has 2 more letters than force 

But seriously we should call it force


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## Antitard (Apr 2, 2009)

It doesn't matter what you call it. We know what it did to the village. The last 3 pages are just nitpicking arguments. Aside from the OP and Banhammer, everyone established that this is a stomp in God Realm's favour


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## ScreenXSurfer (Apr 2, 2009)

Grrblt said:


> It's easier to call it gravity rather than force. Especially on a forum where people think that "700 tons" is a force.



Depends if they're speaking of weight or of explosive energy.

A kiloton is generally referring to a yield of a bomb. A thousand tons is generally referring to weight.


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## Grrblt (Apr 2, 2009)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> Depends if they're speaking of weight or of explosive energy.
> 
> A kiloton is generally referring to a yield of a bomb. A thousand tons is generally referring to weight.



I know what a ton is  This dude wasn't referring to tons in either of the two appropriate senses. His argument was that force = acceleration * mass, therefore it's okay to say that Luffy punches with the force of 700 tons. Which is kind of the same way as saying that mass = volume * density, therefore it's okay to that I weigh 75 litres.

Ton as an energy unit comes from how much mass of TNT you need to release it anyway. So it still has its roots in mass.


Anyway. Call Pein's power gravity. It isn't gravity (chibaku tensei is closest to gravity of his powers, but it isn't quite gravity either), but it's easier to understand what you're talking about when you see "Pein's gravity" rather than "Pein's force". Force has a lot of other connotations here, such as punching power, army/weapon size, magnitude of any ability ("spirit force") etc. It's similar to the word power in this way. If you say gravity instead, everyone will know what you're talking about.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 2, 2009)

Grrblt, take your unrelated whining out of this thread, it's off - topic and nobody cares.



> Any projectile-spamming opponent would be F*cked against pein



I agree Pain wins this, but are you honestly suggesting he could beat, say, a 

After all, that's a "projectile-spamming opponent"



> He doesn't have his other bodies to draw chakra from.



From the way I understand it, he doesn't draw chakra from them, he uses his original body (Nagato) to send chakra to the other bodies, when he uses CST he just has to focus it all in one of them since he doesn't have enough to keep the others running at the same time.


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## God (Apr 2, 2009)

Even with Avatar State, his defense would be CRUSHED under Chou Shinra Tensei. Then Pein uses Bansho Tenin to pull in his battered body + stab.


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## Grrblt (Apr 2, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> Grrblt, take your unrelated whining out of this thread, it's off - topic and nobody cares.


Are you for real? People obviously _do_ care or they wouldn't have brought it up.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 2, 2009)

You're the one who brought it up


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## Xaosin (Apr 2, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> Grrblt, take your unrelated whining out of this thread, it's off - topic and nobody cares.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was a generalization, that he'd typically have a better chance against such an opponent than a character without a gravity/force/propulsion field. Its not to say he'd actually beat ALL PSO's, but his abilitys give him a huge advantage over such an opponent.

Its like generalizing an opponent made of water would have an advantage over someone that shoots fire. That wouldn't be true in absolutely every scenario, but as it'd be a generalization. 

It really doesn't matter what it would be either, he takes this easily if its gravity or propulsion.


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## Grrblt (Apr 3, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> You're the one who brought it up


ScreenXSurfer is the one who brought up whether we should call it gravity, I answered yes with my reasons for why. He started talking about what the mentioned person could have meant by saying tons, and I clarified it for him. So no, I'm not the one that brought it up.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 6, 2009)

Grrblt said:


> ScreenXSurfer is the one who brought up whether we should call it gravity, I answered yes with my reasons for why. He started talking about what the mentioned person could have meant by saying tons, and I clarified it for him. So no, I'm not the one that brought it up.



Do you even read your own posts? You made a sniping jab at some random person who said something about 700 tons which was completely unrelated to this thread.


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## Nihonjin (Apr 7, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> Ok, he can do it at close range.  That does not prove he can do it at long range.



*sigh*



> I just realized something.  It wasn't God Realm who knocked Jiraiya through the wall.  The feat is irrelevant to this thread.



All the bodies have just 1 technique, their physical strength and endurance should be about the same.



> When has CT turned _anything_ into a "pancake"?



Never. But regardless, Aang would still get crushed by it.



> He doesn't have his other bodies to draw chakra from.



'The hell are you talking about?


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## ScreenXSurfer (Apr 7, 2009)

Nihonjin said:


> *sigh*
> 
> 'The hell are you talking about?



I feel your pain.


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## Grrblt (Apr 7, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> Do you even read your own posts? You made a sniping jab at some random person who said something about 700 tons which was completely unrelated to this thread.



Do _you_ read my posts? Like _I already said_, I brought it up to answer a question that was asked. It isn't off topic to answer an on topic question.

Now take your whining out of this thread. _That_ is off topic and nobody cares.


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## Quelsatron (Apr 7, 2009)

Grrblt said:


> Do _you_ read my posts? Like _I already said_, I brought it up to answer a question that was asked. It isn't off topic to answer an on topic question.
> 
> Now take your whining out of this thread. _That_ is off topic and nobody cares.





Grrblt said:


> It's easier to call it gravity rather than force. Especially on a forum where people think that "700 tons" is a force.



This is where you brought it up, looks like a unprovoked snipe to me.
lol


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## Grrblt (Apr 7, 2009)

Like I already said, I brought it up to answer a question that was asked.


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## Kage no Yume (Apr 7, 2009)

Quelsatron said:


> Grrblt said:
> 
> 
> > It's easier to call it gravity rather than force. Especially on a forum where people think that "700 tons" is a force.
> ...



I suppose you didn't notice the post immediately prior to Grrblt's ?



ScreenXSurfer said:


> So are we going to continue calling gravity when we already showed that it isn't except in one case?



I'm pretty sure he was answering the question, not making an off-topic remark about gravity.



Although, the TC is really the one who brought up the topic first by claiming that Shinra Tensei acted just like Earth's gravity.  It obviously doesn't act like gravity in most cases, although I don't really care whether it's called gravity or a force.  

And aren't they the same thing anyways?  The only difference is that gravity is a *constant* force that uses a different theory of physics when regarding celestial bodies.  Pain's shinra tensei isn't a constant slow pulling force, but a high density instantaneous blast of force.


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## Quelsatron (Apr 7, 2009)

I dont see how the


> Especially on a forum where people think that "700 tons" is a force.


bit was at all necessary to answer the question, but whatever, I am annoyed by how zetta uses it aswell


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## EvilMoogle (Apr 7, 2009)

(An imperial ton is 2000 pounds, pounds are a unit of force that are commonly accepted as a unit of mass in the imperial system where 1 pound-mass = 1 pound-force / force of gravity at sea level)

(A metric ton is 1000kg, kg being a unit of mass)

(So depending on the context and usage a "ton" can be either a unit of force or a unit of mass)

Now that that is answered you can resume your debate without worry.


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## Teashawn (Aug 20, 2012)

You're trying your best to form all sorts of lies and the truth is that shinra tensei is a tko technique and could easily kill aang a 12 year old boy.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Aug 20, 2012)

That was absolutely crucial.


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