# Why do people keep arguing this?



## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Like, it's one thing to think Mihawk > Shanks. It's one thing to think Shanks is a Haki-wielding swordsman first and foremost, just like Mihawk or somewhat worse. But why do people keep arguing Mihawk is _stronger_ than Shanks just because he's a better swordsman? You can be better than someone in one area and still overall weaker. For instance, Oden apparently possessed the strongest sword style in history, but he never held the title of WSS and I would definitely agree Mihawk > him.

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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Nov 7, 2022)

I'm more wondering why people keep arguing when _neither_ character has really gotten a full showing yet. And not even a small showing in Shank's case.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> I'm more wondering why people keep arguing when _neither_ character has really gotten a full showing yet. And not even a small showing in Shank's case.



Arguing is fine. And again, I can accept or respect Mihawk > Shanks and people's belief that Shanks will probably just be another type of swordsman (though I disagree). Arguing dishonestly, however, is not.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

@olorun We can continue the debate here.


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## TheWiggian (Nov 7, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 11


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## Dunno (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Like, it's one thing to think Mihawk > Shanks. It's one thing to think Shanks is a Haki-wielding swordsman first and foremost, just like Mihawk or somewhat worse. *But why do people keep arguing Mihawk is stronger than Shanks just because he's a better swordsman?* You can be better than someone in one area and still overall weaker. For instance, Oden apparently possessed the strongest sword style in history, but he never held the title of WSS and I would definitely agree Mihawk > him.


Nobody argues this. What people argue is that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks because he's the strongest swordsman, and therefore by definition stronger than any other swordsman. Strength in One Piece has exclusively been used to refer to overall combat ability, including Haki, DFs and waterspitsmanship.

Reactions: Agree 10 | Winner 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Dunno said:


> Nobody argues this. What people argue is that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks because he's the strongest swordsman, and therefore by definition stronger than any other swordsman. Strength in One Piece has exclusively been used to refer to overall combat ability, including Haki, DFs and waterspitsmanship.



But this still just means he is stronger than Shanks as a swordsman, not that he is necessarily stronger than Shanks overall.


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## Canute87 (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Like, it's one thing to think Mihawk > Shanks. It's one thing to think Shanks is a Haki-wielding swordsman first and foremost, just like Mihawk or somewhat worse. But why do people keep arguing Mihawk is _stronger_ than Shanks just because he's a better swordsman? *You can be better than someone in one area and still overall weaker.* For instance, Oden apparently possessed the strongest sword style in history, but he never held the title of WSS and I would definitely agree Mihawk > him.


But what does shanks realistically have over mihawk as a swordsman is why people believe what they believe.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Canute87 said:


> But what does shanks realistically have over mihawk as a swordsman is why people believe what they believe.



Why should he have anything over Mihawk as a swordsman in the first place?


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## Captain Quincy (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> overall


If you think Shanks is only a swordsman then that is the overall since haki is part of being a swordsman, with the other part being sword technique.




Aegon Targaryen said:


> Oden apparently possessed the strongest sword style in history


I don't remember this ever being said. And if it was then it would lend credence to Mihawk > Shanks anyways, since it means Oden had the best technique but still wasn't the strongest swordsman.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Captain Quincy said:


> If you think Shanks is only a swordsman then that is the overall since haki is part of swordsmanship, with the other part being sword technique



That is fair. However, the "only" swordsman part is quite a distinction.



Captain Quincy said:


> I don't remember this being said, and if it was then it would lend credence to Mihawk > Shanks anyways since it means Oden had the best technique but still wasn't the best swordsman.



Or it would mean you can be better than someone in some aspects but be stronger overall, which means Shanks can be > Mihawk overall even if Mihawk is better as a swordsman.


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## ShWanks (Nov 7, 2022)

I honestly don't even get why people put Mihawk & ShWanks > Oden when Oden has equal if not superior portrayal & feats to both of them alongside better weapons & legacy...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dunno (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> But this still just means he is stronger than Shanks as a swordsman, not that he is necessarily stronger than Shanks overall.


No. Mihawk isn't the strongest as a swordsman. He's the strongest swordsman. Oda's words.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Dunno said:


> No. Mihawk isn't the strongest as a swordsman. He's the strongest swordsman. Oda's words.



Potato, potato.

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## deltaniner (Nov 7, 2022)

Because Shanks is a Swordsman who fights with a Sword+Haki, like every other high-level swordsman.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## ShWanks (Nov 7, 2022)

Dunno said:


> No. Mihawk isn't the strongest as a swordsman. He's the strongest swordsman. Oda's words.


In what regard though? It's not saying he'd defeat any Swordsman but rather he's the best with a sword is how I see it.

Even the best athletes lose in the specialties...

I'd consider Floyd & better pure boxer than Tyson but he'd lose if they fought regardless if he were ranked #1

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

deltaniner said:


> Because Shanks is a Swordsman who fights with a Sword+Haki, like every other high-level swordsman.



Okay, and?  



Aegon Targaryen said:


> But why do people keep arguing Mihawk is _stronger_ than Shanks *just because he's a better swordsman?* You can be better than someone in one area and still overall weaker. For instance, Oden apparently possessed the strongest sword style in history, but he never held the title of WSS and I would definitely agree Mihawk > him.


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## deltaniner (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Okay, and?


Hashirama was the WSS (World's Strongest Senju)

Would you consider it a reasonable argument to say another Senju is above him through "Non-Senju" techniques and ways? Yes or no?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Canute87 (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Why should he have anything over Mihawk as a swordsman in the first place?


because shanks is believed to be a swordsman and not the haki bamboosman

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Canute87 said:


> because shanks is believed to be a swordsman and not the haki bamboosman



Then where are all these Hakiman memes coming from? Clearly someone believes he's not just a swordsman (and some, sadly, believe he wasn't one at all)


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

deltaniner said:


> Hashirama was the WSS (World's Strongest Senju)
> 
> Would you consider it a reasonable argument to say another Senju is above him through "Non-Senju" techniques and ways? Yes or no?



This isn't even a great comparison, fam. Senju is a bloodline. Swordsman is a class of fighter.

But I'll bite. You could argue someone who's only half-Senju or something may not count and be stronger than Hashirama, so the statement can correctly exclude that person. 

It's like saying Robert Baratheon is the best or worst  Targaryen king, even though no one really counts him as one (even if some do tie his lineage and claim to that of House Targaryen). It would simply not be an accurate statement.


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## Canute87 (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Then where are all these Hakiman memes coming from? Clearly someone believes he's not just a swordsman (and some, sadly, believe he wasn't one at all)


i mean now.  Back the shit it was all the rage.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> But why do people keep arguing Mihawk is _stronger_ than Shanks just because he's a better swordsman?


" Worlds strongest swordsman"

Reactions: Like 2


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## Captain Quincy (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> distinction


That's why I'm saying if. Whether he is solely a swordsman or not is a different debate that's not important to your question of why people think it means Mihawk is stronger, since the ones who do all already work off the thinking that Shanks is solely a swordsman in the first place. This is the core point.



Aegon Targaryen said:


> Or it would mean you can be better than someone in some aspects but be stronger overall


Absolutely. For example, Shanks can have better haki but still be weaker than Mihawk overall due to Mihawk's combination of haki + sword technique being better, and vice versa.

If you think Shanks is only a swordsman, which the kind of people you're asking about do, then his combination of haki + sword technique by definition *must *be weaker overall to Mihawk's since he's the strongest swordsman. This is the reasoning.

(At least, it's supposed to be. Don't know what the lewdmen of the OL try arguing to you.)

To counter this you would have to make arguments for Shanks not only being a swordsman.








I do believe Shanks is only a swordsman btw, but I don't care to debate that now since I'm only here to answer your question of why people think Mihawk being the better swordsman = being stronger overall than Shanks.

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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> " Worlds strongest swordsman"



Not world's strongest _man_, though.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Not world's strongest _man_, though.


Your mental gymnastics won't work on me.

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## ShWanks (Nov 7, 2022)

So if two UFC fighters are ranked as the #1 & #2 UFC fighters in the world but of significantly differing weight classes with #2 being in Heavy Weight while #1 is in Feather Weight. 

Would #1 be favored to defeat #2 just because of his title despite being 100lbs lighter?

It's no different. Shanks is #2 but a heavyweight (Yonko) while Mihawk is #1 but a featherweight (Warlord)

ShWanks wins...

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Your mental gymnastics won't work on me.



What gymnastics?


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## Unresponsive (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> What gymnastics?


Worlds strongest swordsman. He is more stronger than any swordsman, shanks is a swordsman.

It's as simple as that maru, it's not hard.


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 7, 2022)

Dunno said:


> He's the strongest swordsman. Oda's words.


Do you have evidence to prove that?


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## olorun (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @olorun We can continue the debate here.


Will respond in a bit. The leaks are craaaaaaazy. I'm forgetting about power scaling for a moment

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Worlds strongest swordsman. He is more stronger than any swordsman, shanks is a swordsman.
> 
> It's as simple as that maru, it's not hard.



Already addressed, Maru


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## Unresponsive (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Already addressed, Maru


You claimed that it was only swordskills.

How is one the "strongest swordsman" yet hes somehow weaker than another swordsman, maru.


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## Rey (Nov 7, 2022)

I used to think strongest swordsman meant stronger than anyone else considered  a swordsman, but then Oda brought that skills shit into it. So that view has taken heavy damage. Regardless, shanks is an overhyped amputee whose destined to job.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> For instance, Oden apparently possessed the strongest sword style in history,


Where does this shit come from, anyone has a decently translated panel. Thought he had the strongest style in Wano.


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## ShWanks (Nov 7, 2022)

Rey said:


> I used to think strongest swordsman meant stronger than anyone else considered  a swordsman, but then Oda *brought that skills shit into it*. So that view has taken heavy damage. Regardless, shanks is an overhyped amputee whose destined to job.
> 
> Where does this shit come from, anyone has a decently translated panel. Thought he had the strongest style in Wano.


At least you acknowledged this fact. There was literally no reason to add "skill" in the statement unless he didn't wanna confirm Mihawk would defeat Shanks in a fight. It couldn't be anymore obvious it would be a repetitive quote.

Oda was basically saying "Mihawk is a better Swordsman than Shanks but Shanks would win in a fight"

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## JustSumGuy (Nov 7, 2022)

Mihawk is the worlds strongest swordsman. So when all signs point to Shanks being a swordsman it’s natural to believe that Mihawk is stronger.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Disagree 2


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## Mawt (Nov 7, 2022)

Because Shanks has not shown anything to indicate that he's anything more than a swordsman. And Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 7, 2022)

They’re written as rivals and we’re meant to compare them.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Mawt said:


> Because Shanks has not shown anything to indicate that he's anything more than a swordsman. And Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman.



He's never emphasized as a swordsman in the way Zoro, Ryuma, Maru, Mihawk, Vista, etc. are. He's just a powerful Haki user who also happens to be a swordsman. It also seems unlikely IMO that Oda would just have Shanks be another flavor of Mihawk, so to speak, rather than being his own unique warrior (even if he's weaker after all).

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Rey said:


> I used to think strongest swordsman meant stronger than anyone else considered  a swordsman, but then Oda brought that skills shit into it. So that view has taken heavy damage



Hmm.



Rey said:


> Regardless, shanks is an overhyped amputee whose destined to job



Disagree.



Rey said:


> Where does this shit come from, anyone has a decently translated panel. Thought he had the strongest style in Wano.



Yeah, I think you may be right here.


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## ShadoLord (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Like, it's one thing to think Mihawk > Shanks. It's one thing to think Shanks is a Haki-wielding swordsman first and foremost, just like Mihawk or somewhat worse. But why do people keep arguing Mihawk is _stronger_ than Shanks just because he's a better swordsman? You can be better than someone in one area and still overall weaker. For instance, Oden apparently possessed the strongest sword style in history, but he never held the title of WSS and I would definitely agree Mihawk > him.


Agreed.

just because Whitebeard was the WSM doesn’t mean he’s stronger than Akainu. Wb is physically stronger, yes, but Akainu has more lethality and skills so Akainu is stronger.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Agreed.
> 
> just because Whitebeard was the WSM doesn’t mean he’s stronger than Akainu. Wb is physically stronger, yes, but Akainu has more lethality and skills so Akainu is stronger.



WSM, as far as I understand it, refers to overall strength as a human/man, not physical strength alone.


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## ShadoLord (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> WSM, as far as I understand it, refers to overall strength as a human/man, not physical strength alone.


WSS, as far as I understand it, refers to overall strength as a swordman/user, not sword skills alone.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Empathy (Nov 7, 2022)

Why do people keep arguing that Shanks is a swordsman? What?

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## Mawt (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> He's never emphasized as a swordsman in the way Zoro, Ryuma, Maru, Mihawk, Vista, etc. are. He's just a powerful Haki user who also happens to be a swordsman. It also seems unlikely IMO that Oda would just have Shanks be another flavor of Mihawk, so to speak, rather than being his own unique warrior (even if he's weaker after all).


Pretty sure Oda drew him as a “swordsman” in some cover page or something along those lines.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Mawt said:


> Pretty sure Oda drew him as a “swordsman” in some cover page or something along those lines.



I agree he's a swordsman, but I'm not at all convinced that's the sum total of his abilities.


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## Mihawk (Nov 7, 2022)

It's like the chicken & the egg situation


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## Mystic (Nov 7, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> At least you acknowledged this fact. There was literally no reason to add "skill" in the statement unless he didn't wanna confirm Mihawk would defeat Shanks in a fight. It couldn't be anymore obvious it would be a repetitive quote.
> 
> Oda was basically saying "Mihawk is a better Swordsman than Shanks but Shanks would win in a fight"


The Kanji 剣技 can also be interpreted/translated as “swordsmanship” which is the literal art of combat itself. Which means Mihawk surpasses Shanks in how the guy literally fights in combat. Same way you would get Mihawk above Zoro if you were to say Mihawks surpasses Zoros swordsmanship. And idk how you got the idea that Oda was saying that Mihawk is the “better” swordsman (even though he said he’s the strongest) but Shanks would win a fight even tho he considers both high profiled swordsman but Mihawk has the title.

I just don’t get it. I really don’t. Are we saying that Oda made Mihawk a fraud. What is the point of his characters existence if there is a swordsman superior to him when his whole identity revolves around being at the top.

I’m starting to wished Oda just called him the most skilled swordsman.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mystic (Nov 7, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> It's like the chicken & the egg situation


Frfr


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## Mystic (Nov 7, 2022)

@Sablés you have the panel of Zoro saying he won’t lose to any one called a swordsman on his path to  become the WSS?


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## Sablés (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> He's never emphasized as a swordsman


Shanks has been repeatedly emphasized as a swordsman in nearly every instance of combat. What are you smoking?


Aegon Targaryen said:


> He's just a powerful Haki user who also happens to be a swordsman.


Swordsmen use powerful haki, and Mihawk answered Zoro's plea (making him a stronger swordsman) with training him on haki. You are working completely backwards because your conclusion was set from the beginning. Haki is being used as an out, when it is a component for swordsmen. Now...do you have evidence that Shanks is somehow more than a swordsman?  Do you have evidence that even has better haki than Mihawk? Yes or no?

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## Sablés (Nov 7, 2022)

Mystic said:


> @Sablés you have the panel of Zoro saying he won’t lose to any one called a swordsman on his path to  become to WSS?

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## Mystic (Nov 7, 2022)

There we go as per Zoros own admission becoming the WSS means not losing to any one called a swordsman no matter what.

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## Soldierofficial (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> But why do people keep arguing Mihawk is _stronger_ than Shanks just because he's a better swordsman?



Because Shanks is a swordsman and therefore weaker than the WSS.

Mihawk's title is not the swordsman with the best technique in the world but the strongest, if he fought against Shanks he would be the winner because he is the strongest and Zoro wants to surpass Mihawk's strength not Shanks's.

Shanks is a swordsman like Zoro, Vista or Fujitora so him being stronger than Mihawk is factually wrong until Oda confirms your theory that he's a being from another world that in his true form doesn't use swords but his haki coated tentacles.

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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Shanks has been repeatedly emphasized as a swordsman in nearly every instance of combat. What are you smoking?



Something less off-brand than you are, from the looks of it  

Shanks is a powerhouse who just happens to be a swordsman. It's not his near-entire niche and character like it is Mihawk's.



Sablés said:


> Swordsmen use powerful haki, and Mihawk answered Zoro's plea (making him a stronger swordsman) with training him on haki. You are working completely backwards because your conclusion was set from the beginning. Haki is being used as an out, when it is a component for swordsmen. Now...do you have evidence that Shanks is somehow more than a swordsman?  Do you have evidence that even has better haki than Mihawk? Yes or no?



Haki being a component for swordsmen is irrelevant to my point, which is that swordsmanship isn't the only way Haki can be used or manifested. 

I do and I have provided it above. I have proof Shanks is renowned for his Haki in a way Mihawk _never_ was (FYI, some people even doubt Mihawk has Haki). In terms of frequency, Shanks literally wrote the book on Haki and has been shown using it several times now. In terms of power, Mihawk has never scared Admirals with his Haki like Shanks has.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Mystic said:


> There we go as per Zoros own admission becoming the WSS means not losing to any one called a swordsman no matter what.



Shanks doesn't call himself a swordsman, IIRC, and Zoro's opinion has nothing to do with what WSS actually means. It's just a matter of personal pride for him.



Soldierofficial said:


> Because Shanks is a swordsman and therefore weaker than the WSS.
> 
> Mihawk's title is not the swordsman with the best technique in the world but the strongest, if he fought against Shanks he would be the winner because he is the strongest and Zoro wants to surpass Mihawk's strength not Shanks's.
> 
> Shanks is a swordsman like Zoro, Vista or Fujitora so him being stronger than Mihawk is factually wrong until Oda confirms your theory that he's a being from another world that in his true form doesn't use swords but his haki coated tentacles.



I have already addressed nearly all of this. Your point about Zoro wanting to surpass Mihawk is laughable as I could easily point out Luffy > Zoro in every sense and Shanks is his benchmark, not Mihawk.

Shanks isn't an alien, he's an android. Get it right


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## Mystic (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Shanks doesn't call himself a swordsman, IIRC, and Zoro's opinion has nothing to do with what WSS actually means. It's just a matter of personal pride for him.


Oda does, but that doesn’t matter to my point really.  Zoros opinion does really matter to what it means to be the WSS (it’s really the only context we are given in canon on what it means that have the title or to be the WSS).  And that means not losing to any other swordsman _period_. And that’s consistent because you can’t be the strongest if there’s someone superior to you. That’s contradictory.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Sablés (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Something less off-brand than you are, from the looks of it


Spread the wealth and send some my way. 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Shanks is a powerhouse who just happens to be a swordsman. It's not his near-entire niche and character like it is Mihawk's.


Who told you this? All we've ever heard about Shanks is that he is a swordsman.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> I have proof Shanks is renowned for his Haki


He is more renowned for being a swordsman, which laughably, isn't exclusive to having OP haki. I'm not sure who told you this but it isn't true.  


Aegon Targaryen said:


> in a way Mihawk _never_ was


Mihawk's epithet is not the WSS. It is not even related to swordsmanship. He's known primarily for his eyes, which have been heavily implied to be a special power. Speaking of which, if it ever gets revealed that Mihawk has some extremely powerful CoO. Will you then argue that Mihawk isn't "just" a swordsman either? And that it isn't his entire kit? Even when it's possible that his fighting style could surround that ability?


Aegon Targaryen said:


> FYI, some people even doubt Mihawk has Haki


They're stupid, because we know for a fact that is wrong.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Shanks literally wrote the book on Haki


Can I have your source?
Can I also have where it's said that his haki is better than Mihawk's?


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Spread the wealth and send some my way.



Sorry, I can't  



Sablés said:


> Who told you this? All we've ever heard about Shanks is that he is a swordsman



Nope. We've been told he is a Yonko and have been purposefully left in the dark as to his fighting style. We barely even saw him fight in the manga. We've seen far more of Mihawk's style and his title as the WSS leaves far less ambiguity.



Sablés said:


> He is more renowned for being a swordsman, which laughably, isn't exclusive to having OP haki. I'm not sure who told you this but it isn't true.



This comment doesn't even make sense. I never said being a swordsman is exclusive to having OP Haki. In fact, I'd argue having OP Haki doesn't mean you're a better swordsman than someone with less OP Haki, and that has long been my position.



Sablés said:


> Mihawk's epithet is not the WSS. It is not even related to swordsmanship. He's known primarily for his eyes, which have been heavily implied to be a special power. Speaking of which, if it ever gets revealed that Mihawk has some extremely powerful CoO. Will you then argue that Mihawk isn't "just" a swordsman either? And that it isn't his entire kit? Even when it's possible that his fighting style could surround that ability?



If that happens, sure, I can accept there's more to Mihawk than what meets the eye. I even said I can accept Mihawk > Shanks and that it's possible. I just really doubt it for the reasons I have already shared. 



Sablés said:


> They're stupid, because we know for a fact that is wrong



They're wrong, but they're on to something in that Mihawk has barely ever shown Haki in action in a clear cut way.



Sablés said:


> Can I have your source?






Sablés said:


> Can I also have where it's said that his haki is better than Mihawk's?



It's not said explicitly, but it sure gets far more feats. That's for certain. Mihawk's Haki has practically never been hyped or even shown beyond what Zoro learned from him, which is far less direct.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Mystic said:


> Oda does, but that doesn’t matter to my point really.  Zoros opinion does really matter to what it means to be the WSS (it’s really the only context we are given in canon on what it means that have the title or to be the WSS).  And that means not losing to any other swordsman _period_. And that’s consistent because you can’t be the strongest if there’s someone superior to you. That’s contradictory.



No, it doesn't. That also doesn't make sense as the strongest person can still lose to a weaker one if their styles match poorly or the weaker one is just marginally weaker and/or gets lucky, which can happen. Zoro's idea of what WSS means is not necessarily what reality shows.


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## Mystic (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> No, it doesn't. That also doesn't make sense as the strongest person can still lose to a weaker one if their styles match poorly or the weaker one is just marginally weaker and/or gets lucky, which can happen. Zoro's idea of what WSS means is not necessarily what reality shows.


Yes it does, and it’s really all we have to go on in canon for what it means to be the WSS. And its given by a swordsman. Also being the strongest means that no one is superior to you, losing out to anyone means you’re not the strongest. Again it’d contradictory to give someone the title of the strongest/most powerful/# 1 if someone else can beat you and is superior.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Mystic said:


> Yes it does, and it’s really all we have to go on in canon for what it means to be the WSS. And its given by a swordsman. Also being the strongest means that no one is superior to you, losing out to anyone means you’re not the strongest. Again it’d contradictory to give someone the title of the strongest/most powerful/top 1 if someone can beat you.



No, it doesn't. Zoro's opinion is not, in any way, official. His words are irrelevant. 

Being the strongest means you can beat more people than anyone else, not that you beat everyone and all the time.


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## Mystic (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> No, it doesn't. Zoro's opinion is not, in any way, official. His words are irrelevant.


It does and it’s not irrelevant. It’s better and more official than the headcanon made in the community for the WSS title means. Which is this bogus idea that it’s only skill related and what not.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Being the strongest means you can beat more people than anyone else, not that you beat everyone and all the time.


Being the strongest means you are #1 there’s no one definitively above/superior to you.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Mystic said:


> It does and it’s not irrelevant



Doesn't and is.



Mystic said:


> It’s better and more official than the headcanon made in the community for the WSS title means



Nope. Just an opinion born of pride.



Mystic said:


> Which is this bogus idea that it’s only skill related and what not



Nice strawman. I never said that either, at least not here. 



Mystic said:


> Being the strongest means you are #1 there’s no one definitively above/superior to you



Congratulations for not even addressing any of my points. Literally no one agrees with your definition of "strongest" but Zoro.


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## Raid3r2010 (Nov 7, 2022)

I'd say Mihawk is the better swordsman so in a sword fight he probably wins according to Oda but I think that in a fight to the death Shanks might have better haki which increase his odds but even that we don't clearly now as Mihawk himself taught Zoro ... haki !
In the end it's 50/50 for me or 51/49 in favour of the Hawk Eyes !!! 

Kaido (WSC) > Mihawk (WSS) >=  Big MuM and Shanks (Two other monster yonkos)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mystic (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Doesn't and is.


It does


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Nope. Just an opinion born of pride.


And yet it’s more official than anything else since it’s the only context we are given to WSS


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Nice strawman. I never said that either, at least not here.


I’m not straw-manning you, just pointing out what the community’s headcanon has came up with for what the WSS means even tho we have a canonical statement from a swordsman that gives an idea of what it means.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Congratulations for not even addressing any of my points. Literally no one agrees with your definition of "strongest" but Zoro.


I don’t care what others made up head canon of what the strongest means. I’m going with the what the character in manga with said goal in mind says of what it means to be the strongest swordsman. Oda didn’t have him say that for him for no reason.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 7, 2022)

Mystic said:


> It does



Nah.



Mystic said:


> And yet it’s more official than anything else since it’s the only context we are given to w



It's not official by any standard, my friend.



Mystic said:


> I’m not straw-manning you, just pointing out what the community’s headcanon has came up for the WSS means even tho we have a canonical statement for a swordsman that gives an idea of what it means



My bad. But my points stand.



Mystic said:


> I don’t care what others made up head canon of the strongest means. I’m going with the what the character with said goal in mind says of what it means the strongest swordsman



Bruh, you're inventing headcanon yourself, lol. Nothing about the "strongest" title in _any_ context, save this ridiculously specific quote from Zoro, implies the strongest person is unbeatable. Roger was arguably the world's strongest pirate but Primebeard and even Prime Garp could challenge and seemingly stalemate him.


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## Mystic (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Nah.


Ye


Aegon Targaryen said:


> It's not official by any standard, my friend.


It’s more official than anything else especially over Fans made up interpretations of it.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> My bad. But my points stand.



Ok


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Bruh, you're inventing headcanon yourself, lol. Nothing about the "strongest" title in _any_ context, save this ridiculously specific quote from Zoro, implies the strongest person is unbeatable. Roger was arguably the world's strongest pirate but Primebeard and even Prime Garp could challenge and seemingly stalemate him.


It’s not headcanon tho lol, it’s a stance reiterated by a character in the manga. Which AGAIN is really all we have to go on for this title. We aren’t given anything else on what it means to be the WSS by anyone. And when was Roger ever stated to be the worlds strongest pirate in the manga? If he was than my bad I don’t remember that. Also not losing to any one doesn’t mean others below can’t give a challenge? I think Mihawk extreme diffs Shanks.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Mystic (Nov 7, 2022)

@Aegon Targaryen  what do you think the WSS title means if you don’t agree with what Zoro says about it?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Raid3r2010 (Nov 7, 2022)

Mystic said:


> @Aegon Targaryen  what do you think the WSS title means if you don’t agree with what Zoro says about it?


The man who's swordsmanship is the greatest of all !

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 7, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Oda was basically saying "Mihawk is a better Swordsman than Shanks but Shanks would win in a fight"

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Unresponsive (Nov 7, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Like, it's one thing to think Mihawk > Shanks. It's one thing to think Shanks is a Haki-wielding swordsman first and foremost, just like Mihawk or somewhat worse. But why do people keep arguing Mihawk is _stronger_ than Shanks just because he's a better swordsman? You can be better than someone in one area and still overall weaker. For instance, Oden apparently possessed the strongest sword style in history, but he never held the title of WSS and I would definitely agree Mihawk > him.


People say hes a stronger swordsman because he has the title of the strongest.
He was proclaimed by the manga, the one piece world, databooks, and the man oda himself to be the strongest swordsman.
Not only does the manga clarify he is stronger but it also clarifies that he is also more skillful.
Swordsmanship includes haki, skill, and power.

That may be true but mihawk is literally called stronger and more skillful(which includes haki).
Whether he has acoc or not he still would have better haki in some way.

Oden claimed it but it was never officially confirmed. It probably was also talking about the greatest sword style in wano there currently is and not actually the whole world. 

Mihawk is more skilled, stronger, probably faster, smarter, and is the best swordsman of the current era.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Djomla (Nov 7, 2022)

Equal to Shanks when he lost an arm to a fish
Didn't defeat Vista whose Haki killing slash was no sold by Akainu
World Strongest Slash access denied by Jozu whom Aokiji froze in place

Surely, an Emperor, a Hakiman, has to be better.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

@Mystic The swordsman that can beat more people with swordsmanship.



Unresponsive said:


> People say hes a stronger swordsman because he has the title of the strongest.
> He was proclaimed by the manga, the one piece world, databooks, and the man oda himself to be the strongest swordsman.
> Not only does the manga clarify he is stronger but it also clarifies that he is also more skillful.
> Swordsmanship includes haki, skill, and power.
> ...



Mihawk has never been stated or shown to be better at Haki like ever. Haki is a subset of skill, but being more skilful in swordsmanship doesn't mean being more skilful in Haki. The rest has been addressed.


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## Dunno (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Potato, potato.


More like potato, pavement, since you have misinterpreted the meaning of the words completely. The strongest swordsman is the swordsman who is the strongest, it's not the swordsman who's the best at swordsmanship. Pretty simple tbh.


Mad Scientist said:


> Do you have evidence to prove that?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 6


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## Rey (Nov 8, 2022)

Is shanks really gonna get massive hype, including vis a vis BB due to his connection to Luffy? Luffy wank is the religion of OP. Anything that de-wanks Luffy is haram. I'm not ready for Shanks wank


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

There's no way Oda would stoop shanks down below mihawk 

a younger shanks was able to duel with the supposed strongest swordman when he was indeed young 

fast forward and Shanks is in his prime but no duels has had happened yet, if it did I got my money on shanks 

No way can a former warlord who has feats against yonko commanders can beat one of the strongest Yonkos

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

]


Aegon Targaryen said:


> @Mystic The swordsman that can beat more people with swordsmanship.
> 
> 
> 
> Mihawk has never been stated or shown to be better at Haki like ever. Haki is a subset of skill, but being more skilful in swordsmanship doesn't mean being more skilful in Haki. The rest has been addressed.


No it hasn't, you didn't even address it. You just said "being more better at being skillful doesn't mean you're stronger than a person.

Please tell me why would zoro ask to get trained to get more skillful and stronger yet mihawk teaches him how to use haki..

It's because haki has a huge role in becoming the WSS, or some type of extremely skilled swordsmen.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> ]
> 
> No it hasn't, you didn't even address it. You just said "being more better at being skillful doesn't mean you're stronger than a person



I said a lot more than that, actually.



Unresponsive said:


> Please tell me why would zoro ask to get trained to get more skillful and stronger yet mihawk teaches him how to use haki..



Good thing I never said Haki isn't involved in swordsmanship, so you might want to stop trying to strawman me.



Unresponsive said:


> It's because haki has a huge role in becoming the WSS, or some type of extremely skilled swordsmen.



Doesn't change the fact Haki =/ swordsmanship.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Dunno said:


> More like potato, pavement, since you have misinterpreted the meaning of the words completely. The strongest swordsman is the swordsman who is the strongest, it's not the swordsman who's the best at swordsmanship. pretty simple tbh.



I disagree. Simple as that.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> There's no way Oda would stoop shanks down below mihawk
> 
> a younger shanks was able to duel with the supposed strongest swordman when he was indeed young
> 
> ...


Yes way because he's already done it.

If a duel were to happen I would pick the guy that is called stronger by the author himself

According to oda, mihawk is literally one of the legends regardless if he was a warlord or not. Mihawk needs his freedom so he obtained it even if it meant being some type of government ally.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I disagree. Simple as that.


Never in fanverse have I ever seen someone say "I disagree with a title that was given by the author himself" He's actually trying to argue with the author. I've never seen such commitment. Let's just hope he doesn't send a letter to oda telling him to retcon the WSS title and give it to shanks instead.

Reactions: Funny 4 | Lewd 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Never in fanverse have I ever seen someone say "I disagree with a title that was given by the author himself" He's actually trying to argue with the author. I've never seen such commitment. Let's just hope he doesn't send a letter to oda telling him to retcon the WSS title and give it to shanks instead.



You're mistaken. I don't disagree with the title, just your interpretation of it.

Already sent that letter btw


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I said a lot more than that, actually.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've already proven mihawk was stronger and more skillful. What could you possibly claim shanks is more better at? Running away from the cameraman? Letting his daughter die, failing to regrow his arm.

Your lucky I read that wrong otherwise I would've destroyed your argument pieces by pieces.


Haki=swordsmanship.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> I've already proven mihawk was stronger and more skillful. What could you possibly claim shanks is more better at? Running away from the cameraman? Letting his daughter die, failing to regrow his arm



Haki. He may have unique manifestations or abilities using Haki that have nothing to do with swordsmanship. 



Unresponsive said:


> Your lucky I read that wrong otherwise I would've destroyed your argument pieces by pieces



So you say.



Unresponsive said:


> Haki >swordsmanship.



Fixed.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> You're mistaken. I don't disagree with the title, just your interpretation of it.
> 
> Already sent that letter btw


What do you disagree with then.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Haki. He may have unique manifestations or abilities using Haki that have nothing to do with swordsmanship.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He may but he doesn't. There are no other abilities other than Acoc, Armament, and Future sight. Shanks has a variation of future sight which is FS kiler.

I admitted that I read it wrong. 


Swordsmanship=Haki.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Yes way because he's already done it.
> 
> If a duel were to happen I would pick the guy that is called stronger by the author himself
> 
> According to oda, mihawk is literally one of the legends regardless if he was a warlord or not. Mihawk needs his freedom so he obtained it even if it meant being some type of government ally.


Oda says he has more sword skills 

Judging by how you see this i'm sure you have Mihawk above the likes of Roger as well

Mihawk a "Legend" but Oda clearly didn't care about that in marine ford, Shanks had his confrontations with greats of the OP world while Hawkboy isn't even his own force but instead allied with other former warlords 

Shanks is the leader of his force, Mihawk is not leading anything by himself he's doing it with crocodile 

Portrayal between these 2 has me saying Shanks overwhelms Mihawk, despite having less sword skills back in the day its canon that a Young shanks could rival the older mihawk

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Oda says he has more sword skills
> 
> Judging by how you see this i'm sure you have Mihawk above the likes of Roger as well
> 
> ...



While Mihawk was being kept back by Vista, Shanks was clashing with Whitebeard - the world's strongest man (NOT swordsman) - and effectively ended the war later on.


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> While Mihawk was being kept back by Vista, Shanks was clashing with Whitebeard - the world's strongest man (NOT swordsman) - and effectively ended the war later on.


This is why recently I've changed my opinion on Mihawk so much 

Let's talk about MF where Mihawk was actually present 

Mihawk in MF literally clashed with everyone but a Top Tier, all 3 Admirals had their showings against WB while Mihawk had most of his showings against the underlings of Whitebeard 

Mihawk was clearly not the strongest there not even for the WG side

Fast forward and shanks arrives with his crew, stopping Akainu who's a top tier in his tracks and Mihawk quite literally backs up and says he won't fight shanks 

It's clear that Shanks is clearly the superior to Mihawk, a younger youthful shanks is equal to mihawk

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> This is why recently I've changed my opinion on Mihawk so much
> 
> Let's talk about MF where Mihawk was actually present
> 
> ...



Facts 

Don't forget Mihawk failing to kill Buggy too


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Facts
> 
> Don't forget Mihawk failing to kill Buggy too


Imagine shanks being in MF and post poning against vista  

Oda would never do that to shanks bruhhh

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Imagine shanks being in MF and post poning against vista
> 
> Oda would never do that to shanks bruhhh



That, and Vista wasn't going all out either


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> That, and Vista wasn't going all out either


You got Shanks who around the time in marineford going on his way to Stop Kaidou (Emperor)

then you have Mihawk showing rivalry against yonko commanders

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> You got Shanks who around the time in marineford going on his way to *Stop Kaidou (Emperor)*
> 
> then you have Mihawk showing rivalry against yonko commanders



And he succeeded

Reactions: Like 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Oda says he has more sword skills
> 
> Judging by how you see this i'm sure you have Mihawk above the likes of Roger as well
> 
> ...


Oda also said he was stronger.

Why would you come up with that assumption???

Mihawk literally was dubbed a legend, whether he got his time to shine at marineford or not it still doesn't change the fact that oda himself considers him one of the best. Makes sense meeting greats =being stronger than the stronger swordsmen.

You know why mihawk is a warlord so why're you trying to act like it's because hes scared? He doesn't need the marines help but he just wants them to leave him alone.

Shanks is the leader of a group he created, mihawk and crocodile agreed to make buggy the leader so they could chase him and leave both of them alone. 

All I know is that in official canon evidence mihawk is called the worlds strongest and not the worlds most skillful. Keep trying to cope though.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> While Mihawk was being kept back by Vista, Shanks was clashing with Whitebeard - the world's strongest man (NOT swordsman) - and effectively ended the war later on.


They clashed like one time while mihawk wasn't paying attention.

Shanks clashed with whitebeard that was sick and harmed.

If a swordsman can do it then the world's strongest can too. One more thing is that someone like shanks was able to accomplish what he has due to his knowledge or he just has ties with the WG and snitched on roger.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Facts
> 
> Don't forget Mihawk failing to kill Buggy too





Inferno Jewls said:


> Imagine shanks being in MF and post poning against vista
> 
> Oda would never do that to shanks bruhhh


Shanks would lose his arm to another fodder.

Mihawk had to do his job and mess with luffy also aegon tell me how is someone going to cut and harm someone who is immuned to slicing, cutting, and sword attacks.


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Oda also said he was stronger.
> 
> Why would you come up with that assumption???
> 
> ...


Oda himself was also the one who made Mihawk clash with yonko commanders while making Shanks confronting top greats of the OP world 

that's not the point 

Oda clearly woudve made Mihawk the leader of the cross guild or at least the leader of his own organization of some sort but he chose to put him as an ally to a former warlord 

while Shanks is an emperor/Boss of his own force 

there's a huge difference here, Bounties even favor shanks here

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> They clashed like one time while mihawk *wasn't paying attention*



Sounds baseless. Mihawk literally hyped Vista up and Vista was not serious either.



Unresponsive said:


> Shanks clashed with whitebeard that was sick and harmed



Sick? Yes. Harmed? Not that much yet.



Unresponsive said:


> If a swordsman can do it then the world's strongest can too



Then why didn't he?  

Mihawk isn't the world's strongest, just its strongest swordsman.



Unresponsive said:


> One more thing is that someone like shanks was able to accomplish what he has due to his knowledge or he just has ties with the WG and snitched on roger.



Knowledge is power. The WG ties part may be true, admittedly. The last part is your assumption.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> *also aegon tell me how is someone going to cut and harm someone who is immuned to slicing, cutting, and sword attacks*.



Don't use those


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## Ezekjuninor (Nov 8, 2022)

Shanks is a swordsman which was literally stated by Oda himself. Shanks was also used as a comparison for Mihawk’s swordsmanship. Why would Oda pick a character that isn’t even a swordsman as a standard of swordsmanship.

Mihawk is the World’s Strongest Swordsman, that is his official title. Therefore, he’s stronger than any swordsman, including Shanks. The same way WB as the WSM was stronger than any man. The best case for Shanks would be that he’s equal to Mihawk.

Reactions: Like 4 | Neutral 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Don't use those


Yes he did

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Sounds baseless. Mihawk literally hyped Vista up and Vista was not serious either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Vista was serious as he was completely paying attention to mihawk.
While mihawk was holding back while focusing on luffy.

By harmed I meant weakened lol.

Mihawk never fought whitebeard or clashed with him.

Mihawk is the worlds strongest swordsman, it's in his title.

You tried to use it as a feat for his strength(I think). An assumption that will happen.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> I agree mihawk stronger then shanks, nothing crazy he's the weakest yonko.
> 
> But why do they try to validate the wss title when some of them don't do the same to wb  title?


I always do it with wb.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> I always do it with wb.





> when *some* of them don't do the same to wb ?

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

1 page earlier:



All you've shown is a box with Mihawk's title. For all we know, Oda could be re-iterating his title for readers to see. It's merely a description of what other characters think of Mihawk based on how renowned he is. That's not proof that _Oda_ thinks Mihawk is the WSS.

Furthermore, Mihawk did not want to fight 1-handed Shanks. Why? Because he felt that Shanks would lose? If Mihawk doesn't like fighting a Shanks that Mihawk feels is likely to lose, does that mean Shanks didn't lose to Mihawk previously, or perhaps their wins/losses were balanced? In either of these cases, Mihawk being WSS only means that Shanks is too (just lacks a title because he's not as renowned for his swordsmanship).

In addition, we should not assume that being the strongest swordsman automatically means being stronger than anyone that wields a sword. That would be like assuming Luffy can't beat Kaido because they're both creatures, or if one believes that Kaido > MF WB how can that be when they're both men?



Ezekjuninor said:


> Mihawk is the World’s Strongest Swordsman, that is his official title. Therefore, he’s stronger than any swordsman, including Shanks. The same way WB as the WSM was stronger than any man. The best case for Shanks would be that he’s equal to Mihawk.


Shanks clashed equally with a Whitebeard on his IVs, and was likely holding back more than WB was holding back.

If your argument is that Mihawk > Shanks who IMO is ~ to Whitebeard at worst > non-IVs WB (at worst Shanks is equal to this), wouldn't that contradict WB's title as WSM, since Mihawk is a man?



GreenEggsAHam said:


> But why do they try to validate the wss title when some of them don't do the same to wb title?


I do the same for WB btw.

Also it's not about invalidating the title but rather looking at it with a nuanced perspective.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Oda himself was also the one who made Mihawk clash with yonko commanders while making Shanks confronting top greats of the OP world
> 
> that's not the point
> 
> ...


He came to warn whitebeard and stop kaido. Mihawk clashing with yonko commanders doesn't change how he is literally the strongest.

This is a story, mihawk is all about doing what he wants and not getting bothered. It's obvious that mihawk wasn't going to be the leader instead buggy.

Being an emperor or a boss doesn't matter because mihawk(and croco) was the reason why buggy became a yonko. 

Bounties still do not prove anything. Mihawk is the WSS therefore he is the stronger individual. It's as simple as that.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> That's not proof that _Oda_ thinks Mihawk is the WSS.


This is from the manga itself.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

I'm just reminding you.


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Thi is from the manga itself.


I believe I've already addressed that.


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## Ezekjuninor (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> Shanks clashed equally with a Whitebeard on his IVs, and was likely holding back more than WB was holding back.
> 
> If your argument is that Mihawk > Shanks who IMO is ~ to Whitebeard at worst > non-IVs WB (at worst Shanks is equal to this), wouldn't that contradict WB's title as WSM, since Mihawk is a man?


A single clash is meant to evidence for Shanks~WB? Seriously. Is base Luffy equal to hybrid Kaidou because of an equal clash where they split the skies. And why would Shanks be holding back more than WB was?


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> I believe I've already addressed that.


Oda believes it. Just like he called whitebeard the wsm.
If he didn't believe it then his title would've been similar to kaidos.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> He came to warn whitebeard and stop kaido. Mihawk clashing with yonko commanders doesn't change how he is literally the strongest.
> 
> This is a story, mihawk is all about doing what he wants and not getting bothered. It's obvious that mihawk wasn't going to be the leader instead buggy.
> 
> ...


Right there you go , "Whitebeard and Kaido"

literally 2 greats of the OP world and shanks had his confrontations with them, Mihawk has never even been shown to even attempting to clash with a top tier other than throwing a slash at whitebeard which got stopped by a commander (Jozu) 
they even had a face off

being an emperor or boss does matter, you even said it yourself mihawk needed croco to gain the yonkou status and with the yonkou status he isn't even the sole leader
he's allied with Crocodile who was literally beaten by a pre-ts Luffy

could you imagine Oda giving such portrayal to Shanks?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

Ezekjuninor said:


> A single clash is meant to evidence for Shanks~WB?


Not just that, obviously. Shanks is also a Yonko and likely the strongest based on portrayal etc. We also see WB's performance at MF. If you think Shanks is on that level...



> And why would Shanks be holding back more than WB was?


If he was stronger.



Unresponsive said:


> Oda believes it. Just like he called whitebeard the wsm


He wrote a description for readers based on his title which is based on him being a renowned swordsman.



> If he didn't believe it then his title would've been similar to kaidos.


Which is?


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> being an emperor or boss does matter, you even said it yourself mihawk needed croco to gain the yonkou status and with the yonkou status he isn't even the sole leader
> he's allied with Crocodile who was literally beaten by a pre-ts Luffy
> 
> could you imagine Oda giving such portrayal to Shanks?


This is like saying the Shanks needed Benny, Yasopp, Luckyroo and his super team of a crew to become a Yonko (since his crew was heavily emphasized on and nothing on himself). While it only just took Mihawk and Crocodile *ALONE* as per Laws own admission and do realize that downplaying Croco only makes Mihawk look better because you’re indirectly saying that it’s mostly his doing for creating a Yonko recognized crew because it’s literally those two that are the reason CG is a Yonko crew. Also Oda literally says that in retrospect it was a _mistake _to have had Crocodile lose to Luffy so soon and said there will be more to him in future of the story.


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## Ezekjuninor (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> Not just that, obviously. Shanks is also a Yonko and likely the strongest based on portrayal etc. We also see WB's performance at MF. If you think Shanks is on that level...


WB has the best portrayal in the series next to Roger. He was said to be the ruler of the seas or the WSM countless times. I don’t see how you could argue Shanks has received better portrayal.

WB had to fight in MF with a massive stab wound through his chest and he was constantly being blindsided while fighting top tiers. I doubt Shanks would perform as impressively as you think he would under those circumstances. 


Mad Scientist said:


> If he was stronger.


There’s no evidence of Shanks being stronger than WB though. Oda gave these characters official titles such as WSM and WSS. Unless proven otherwise they are at the top of their category.


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## Santoryu (Nov 8, 2022)

Mihawk and Shanks have been explicitly compared to one another on multiple occasions. Presently, Shanks' primary mode of combat is indicated to be swordsmanship. Mihawk with no territory, crew or alliances also attracted a staggering bounty.


It's been hinted that they're going to be relative and anyone that thinks that one will be significantly stronger than the other is making a mistake. 
For now, I give Mihawk the edge for reasons adumbrated within this thread by others

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Mystic said:


> This is like saying the Shanks needed Benny, Yasopp, Luckyroo and his super team of a crew to become a Yonko (since his crew was heavily emphasized on and nothing on himself). While it only just took Mihawk and Crocodile *ALONE* as per Laws own admission and do realize that downplaying Croco only makes Mihawk look better because you’re indirectly saying that it’s mostly his doing for creating a Yonko recognized crew because it’s literally those two that are the reason CG is a Yonko crew. Also Oda literally says that in retrospect it was a _mistake _to have had Crocodile lose to Luffy so soon and said there will be more to him in future of the story.


That's not the point 

Shanks is seen as a yonkou, a boss of his own force while Mihakw isn't, Mihawk is an ally to the force* while Shanks owns his


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## GreenEggsAHam (Nov 8, 2022)

Why did the marines compare mihawk to shanks? 
Shanks is a swordsmen
other then mihawk shanks is the only alive top tier swordsmen currently.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Right there you go , "Whitebeard and Kaido"
> 
> literally 2 greats of the OP world and shanks had his confrontations with them, Mihawk has never even been shown to even attempting to clash with a top tier other than throwing a slash at whitebeard which got stopped by a commander (Jozu)
> they even had a face off
> ...




Once again how does that matter when one is the WSS. Whether hes a yonko or not he still is the WSS due to his own strength.


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> That's not the point
> 
> Shanks is seen as a yonkou, a boss of his own force while Mihakw isn't, Mihawk is an ally to the force* while Shanks owns his


Why does this matter, Mihawk doesn’t want to be seen as a Yonko or the boss of CG even tho he could. Made Buggy the leader of the group _Crocodile_ created and the man listened to him. Oda made it pretty clear with that interaction and the discrepancy in their bounties. (With Mihawk the highest).


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## Santoryu (Nov 8, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Once again how does that matter when one is the WSS. Whether hes a yonko or not he still is the WSS due to his own strength.


once again how does that matter when the WSS couldn't put down a younger swordsman in their duels

Worlds strongest swordman but Oda said he was equal to a younger shanks


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> once again how does that matter when the WSS couldn't put down a younger swordsman in their duels


He was young too and we don’t know when he got the title. We know he has it NOW


Inferno Jewls said:


> Worlds strongest swordman but Oda said he was equal to a younger shanks


Young Mihawk=Young Shanks, Current Mihawk>Current Shanks because one is called the strongest and the other isn’t.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Mystic said:


> He was young to and we don’t know when he got the title. We know he has it NOW
> 
> Young Mihawk=Young Shanks, Current Mihawk>Current Shanks because one is called the strongest and the other isn’t.


A young mihawk at the time who was still older than a shanks could only duel him but could not put him down

the other don't have to be the strongest as he does not have to be a pure swordsman just relying on sword skills, I see shanks as similar to roger


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

because shanks is stronger than mihawk.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> A young mihawk at the time who was still older than a shanks could only duel him but could not put him down


He was still young regardless. We don’t know if he had Yoru or made it as a black blade then or the WSS title.



Inferno Jewls said:


> the other don't have to be the strongest as he does not have to be a pure swordsman just relying on sword skills, I see shanks as similar to roger


The other is a swordsman who uses haki in conjunction with his blade (does it with WB and Akainu) like every other swordsman that’s worth a damn. Oden, Rayleigh, Zoro, Ryumma etc.


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Mystic said:


> He was still young. We don’t know if he has Yoru or the black blade
> 
> 
> The other is a swordsman who uses haki in conjunction with his blade like every other swordsman’s that’s worth a damn. Oden, Rayleigh, Zoro, Ryumma etc.


Mihawk relies solely all in his sword 

powerful haki can overcome better sword skill 

unless you think vice versa


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> He wrote a description for readers based on his title which is based on him being a renowned swordsman.
> 
> 
> Which is?


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Mihawk relies solely all in his sword
> 
> powerful haki can overcome better sword skill
> 
> unless you think vice versa


Mihawk relies on his sword and his haki  (it’s the reason he has a black blade in the first place, since we KNOW canonically it can only be achieved through “countless battles” which means he heavily used his haki countless times with Yoru).


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Mihawk relies solely all in his sword
> 
> powerful haki can overcome better sword skill


"Mihawk doesn't use haki but he uses his blackblade which is a haki coated sword"

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Santoryu (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> "Mihawk doesn't use haki but he uses his blackblade which is a haki coated sword"


Do you like it?

Reactions: Like 1


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

is shanks even on the "path of the sword" anymore?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Santoryu (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> is shanks even on the "path of the sword" anymore?



The best characters don't abandon the sword

Shanks
Mihawk
Zoro
Rayleigh
Roger 

Oden is a twerking anomaly but we don't mention him


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Mystic said:


> Mihawk relies on his sword and his haki just like Shanks and Zoro and the rest of relevant swordsman (it’s the reason he has a black blade in the first place, since we KNOW canonically it can only be achieved through “countless battles” which means he heavily used his haki countless times with Yoru).


Cool so you think that Mihawks swordsman skills gap is vast when compared to shanks?
like I said, I think Shanks Haki is what makes him superior here 


Unresponsive said:


> "Mihawk doesn't use haki but he uses his blackblade which is a haki coated sword"


when did I say that


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

Santoryu said:


> The best characters don't abandon the sword
> 
> Shanks
> Mihawk
> ...


i didn't ask if he abandoned the sword, i asked if he was on the path of the sword.
roger can use a sword but he is not on the path of the sword, he's on the path of the pirate king.


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Cool so you think that Mihawks swordsman skills gap is vast when compared to shanks?
> like I said, I think Shanks Haki is what makes him superior here


I think Mihawk relies on his sword and his haki just like Shanks. The guy wouldn’t have a black blade (which is forged through “countless battles”—means he used his haki ALOT) otherwise.


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

Ezekjuninor said:


> WB has the best portrayal in the series next to Roger. He was said to be the ruler of the seas or the WSM countless times.


Prime WB =/= heart attacks WB. For someone to be getting heart attacks, their condition must have deteriorated to a large degree. .



> I don’t see how you could argue Shanks has received better portrayal.


You think heart attacks WB, who was damaged by a MF Akainu, is stronger than Shanks?

Shanks intercepted Kaido, intercepted Akainu, and was prepared to fight every MF at MF.
He's someone for Luffy to surpass (who beat Kaido recently).
Rivaled Mihawk.
Made Green Bull piss his pants and flee.
Defeats Kizaru in seconds in Film Red.
Kaido placed Shanks in the same elite class as other legendary pirates that can fight him such as Roger, Prime Whitebeard, Xebec.



> WB had to fight in MF with a massive stab wound through his chest and he was constantly being blindsided while fighting top tiers.


WB had grown weak even before getting stabbed. Also he was getting heart attacks which is attributed to his condition that required stabilizing through IVs.

*Spoiler*: __ 










> I doubt Shanks would perform as impressively as you think he would under those circumstances.


Would Shanks get heart attacks in the middle of the battle?

Shanks was also missing flesh yet he could clash equally with Whitebeard with 1 arm, ward off Kaido with 1 arm, block Akainu's punch with 1 arm.



> There’s no evidence of Shanks being stronger than WB though. Oda gave these characters official titles such as WSM and WSS. Unless proven otherwise they are at the top of their category.


They are titles based on reputation and merit. But they aren't iron-clad rules.

If Kaido was the WSC, why was he beaten by Luffy?
If MF Whitebeard was the WSM, why do people argue that Kaido (a man) is stronger?
If Mihawk was the WSS, why was Shanks rivaling and sparring with him several times?


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Mystic said:


> I think Mihawk replies on his sword and his haki just like Shanks. The guy would have a black blade (which is forged through countless battles—means he used his haki ALOT) otherwise.


this is what I think

obviously Mihawk has better sword skills as stated in the manga, but the gap in their skills shouldn't be vast to the point where Mihawk would be able to solely rely on his sword skills and not haki 

with Shanks I think his Haki is greater than hawks 

So with Mihawk slightly having the better sword skill I think Shanks has greater/more powerful Haki (not by slightly) 

and add those up with Mihawks showings in MF compared to Shanks confrontations, the portrayal imo puts Shanks above Mihawk 

High to very high diff Shanks wins this


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> once again how does that matter when the WSS couldn't put down a younger swordsman in their duels
> 
> Worlds strongest swordman but Oda said he was equal to a younger shanks


"was once as strong as the best swordsman in the world(mihawk)"
Shanks is weaker than mihawk.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

Good thing there's no panel nor quote of ShWanks referring to himself as a Swordsman...


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> is shanks even on the "path of the sword" anymore?


If hes a swordsman yes


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Good thing there's no panel nor quote of ShWanks has NEVER referring to himself as a Swordsman...


LOLLLLLLLLLLLL       Shanks the one armed boxer


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> LOLLLLLLLLLLLL       Shanks the one armed boxer


I'm just saying...that Zoro panel doesn't even apply to Shanks. Ignoring emotions, that's a literal fact as of now.


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

@ShWanks bro when is this Shanks and Mihawk chapter coming out dawg? It’s been weeks, I want this to end for the debate to finally be settled

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> I'm just saying...that Zoro panel doesn't even apply to Shanks. Ignoring emotions, that's a literal fact as of now.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Mystic said:


> @ShWanks bro when is this Shanks and Mihawk chapter coming out dawg? It’s been weeks, I want this to end for the debate to finally be settled

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Soldierofficial (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> While Mihawk was being kept back by Vista, Shanks was clashing with Whitebeard - the world's strongest man (NOT swordsman) - and effectively ended the war later on.



Do you think Mihawk is a fraud but Whitebeard's title is legit?

And with Whitebeard we have proof that his title was not earned by his individual power and that Kaido was the strongest 1v1 according to the Ace canon novel.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> If he didn't believe it then his title would've been similar to kaidos.


Still don't get what you're trying to say here. Kaido's title is WSC, correct? Similarly, Mihawk is WSS. Oda refers to them with their titles. What Oda himself thinks about them is another matter however.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> when did I say that


Why would you claim "Mihawk relies only on his sword and not haki". When he literally told zoro that haki is important


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

I can't wait till Oda reveals ShWanks took Kid's left arm & had it attached to himself by Vegapunk or some doctor in his crew 

ShWanks is literally missing his left arm like Kid & Oda's recent panelling of Shanks Post TS has been very suspicious. They're even nearly the same size so their wingspans could match.

The panic it'd cause the Zoro fans would be hilarious.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> Still don't get what you're trying to say here. Kaido's title is WSC, correct? Similarly, Mihawk is WSS. Oda refers to them with their titles. What Oda himself thinks about them is another matter however.


Kaidos title was based on rumors according to the manga and novels.

Usullay titles go above the name but that wasn't the case for kaido.


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> I can't wait till Oda reveals ShWanks took Kid's left arm & had it attached to himself by Vegapunk or some doctor in his crew
> 
> ShWanks is literally missing his left arm like Kid & Oda's recent panelling of Shanks Post TS has been very suspicious


Forget that, Kid can screw off, where is this Mihawk vs Shanks chapter? Where is it?! And when it is coming?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> I can't wait till Oda reveals ShWanks took Kid's left arm & had it attached to himself by Vegapunk or some doctor in his crew
> 
> ShWanks is literally missing his left arm like Kid & Oda's recent panelling of Shanks Post TS has been very suspicious


Do you think that's going to change the fact that shanks is a swordsman. Or do you really believe hes a retired boxer


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Kaidos title was based on rumors according to the manga and novels.
> 
> Usullay titles go above the name but that wasn't the case for kaido.


Don't see why that matters. Isn't he still called the WSC?


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> Don't see why that matters. Isn't he still called the WSC?


They aren't official like mihawks, dragons, rogers and whitebeard.


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Do you think that's going to change the fact that shanks is a swordsman. Or do you really believe hes a retired boxer


No, I think It'd retcon that title lol as the latest info we'd have is Shanks getting stronger until Mihawk is referred to as WSS AFTER the panel of 2 armed Shanks.

Latest info always takes precedence.


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> They aren't official like mihawks, dragons, rogers and whitebeard.


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Why would you claim "Mihawk relies only on his sword and not haki". When he literally told zoro that haki is important


Oh yeah I did say it, silly me


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Oh yeah I did say it, silly me


Good to know you're a yes man. Now admit that shanks is a weak swordsman that even vista one taps

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Good to know you're a yes man. Now admit that shanks is a weak swordsman that even vista one taps


Mihawk is Vista's 2nd greatest disciple, 1st is shanks 

whenever Vista needs to shine he'll call up mihawk and stalemate him

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


>


I said PANEL and that's drawn by a fan. Oda simply couldn't just not put much thought into taking time to exclude guys the FAN drew on the pic. Oda normally just answers questions briefly. The fan basically strawmanned him into agreeing Shanks was a Swordsman.

Show me a panel, Sbs, databook etc of SHANKS calling HIMSELF a Swordsman like Zoro's panel stated.


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

Still waiting for the Mihawk vs Shanks chapter that the Shanks fans were crowing about all over Twitter and on here (mostly from ShWanks). It’s been months, where is it?! When will we get the chapter that puts an end to this?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

Mystic said:


> @ShWanks bro when is this Shanks and Mihawk chapter coming out dawg? It’s been weeks, I want this to end for the debate to finally be settled


Give it some time. I never said I knew when it'd be just when it'd be. Seeing how we see BB vs Law. Shanks introduction shouldn't be too far away.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Soldierofficial said:


> Do you think Mihawk is a fraud but Whitebeard's title is legit?
> 
> And with Whitebeard we have proof that his title was not earned by his individual power and that Kaido was the strongest 1v1 according to the Ace canon novel.



I don't think either is a fraud. 

I just think y'all misunderstand what titles mean.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I don't think either is a fraud.
> 
> I just think y'all misunderstand what titles mean.


Easily. Titles change or have specifications...


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> If hes a swordsman yes


then wss title means nothing.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Get outnumbered


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> then wss title means nothing.


How


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Get outnumbered


Blah blah it's there & in other databooks as well.


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> "was once as strong as the best swordsman in the world(mihawk)"
> Shanks is weaker than mihawk.


If past Shanks = best swordsman, that means past Shanks was also best swordsman alongside Mihawk.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> How


cause shanks is stronger. it's very clear cut.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> If past Shanks = best swordsman, that means past Shanks was also best swordsman alongside Mihawk.


Do you think mental gymnastics such as that will work on me.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> cause shanks is stronger. it's very clear cut.


No


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> I said PANEL and that's drawn by a fan. Oda simply couldn't just not put much thought into taking time to exclude guys the FAN drew on the pic. Oda normally just answers questions briefly. The fan basically strawmanned him into agreeing Shanks was a Swordsman.


I’d believe you if Oda didn’t recently just compare Shanks swordsmanship to the swordsman of all swordsman. Which he wouldn’t have done if Shanks wasn’t one. Meaning this statement for this drawing is legit.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Blah blah it's there & in other databooks as well.



You mean how literally in the ace novel kaido was rumored to be the strongest in 1v1's


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

Mystic said:


> I’d believe you if Oda didn’t compare Shanks swordsmanship to the swordsman of all swordsman. Which he wouldn’t have done if Shanks wasn’t one. Means this statement of this drawing is legit.


I'd believe you if he didn't feel the need to specify "IN SKILL" instead of just saying "Mihawk surpasses Shanks"

That's directly implying in a fight Mihawk is not guaranteed a victory...

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> You mean how literally in the ace novel kaido was rumored to be the strongest in 1v1's


Google exists...


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> No


his appearance did stop a war that mihawk was taking part in...you know?
mihawk short a billion of shanks bounty too.
why does the wss title matter?


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Mihawk is Vista's 2nd greatest disciple, 1st is shanks
> 
> whenever Vista needs to shine he'll call up mihawk and stalemate him


We've went over this, it was bedtime for mihawk so he needed to leave.

Mihawks greatest disciple is sea beast, whenever mihawk bedtime comes around and hes fighting shanks. He just calls his disciple to no diff him again.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Do you think mental gymnastics such as that will work on me.


"was once as strong as the best swordsman in the world(mihawk)"

Meaning Shanks was once = WSS. This means that Mihawk can hold the title but there can be swordsmen as strong as him.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Google exists...


The novels, databooks, and manga itself exist.


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> I'd believe you if he didn't feel the need to specify "IN SKILL" instead of just saying "Mihawk surpasses Shanks"
> 
> That's directly implying in a fight Mihawk is not guaranteed a victory...


The Japanese kanji can also be translated as “swordsmanship” which again Oda wouldn’t  have done if Shanks wasn’t a swordman.  Why would he compare a swordsman who is as swordsman as anyone in OP can get to a non swordsman. That plus the sbs statement on drawing leads credence to the fact that he does see him as one. Plus all the other databook statements.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> his appearance did stop a war that mihawk was taking part in...you know?
> mihawk short a billion of shanks bounty too.
> why does the wss title matter?


Most likely due to his status and relationship with the WG. Rat D Snitch get's special treatment.

Bounty is how much you're wanted by the navy. Bounty being used for powerscaling doesn't make sense since luffy, zoro, sanji, and other op characters have been defeating people with higher bounty than them.

Because the worlds strongest swordsman title is about "strength". How could mihawk be weaker than someone he is stated to be above.


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> mihawk short a billion of shanks bounty too.
> why does the wss title matter?


Ehh   Mihawk is at less than a 500 mill gap and Shanks is a Yonko captain with territories, influence and way more time as a Yonko.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Nov 8, 2022)

Soldierofficial said:


> Do you think Mihawk is a fraud but Whitebeard's title is legit?
> 
> And with Whitebeard we have proof that his title was not earned by his individual power and that Kaido was the strongest 1v1 according to the Ace canon novel.


Ace novel made no mention of his title not being legit, 

ace novel dd imply shanks is the weakest yonko

And it simply said wb was the strongest man lol.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> "was once as strong as the best swordsman in the world(mihawk)"
> 
> Meaning Shanks was once = WSS. This means that Mihawk can hold the title but there can be swordsmen as strong as him.


That could be possible but that was in the past. We have other statements saying that mihawk is the one that sits above all swordsman and is the strongest.

Also it's possible that mihawk didn't even have the WSS when he was in his mid 20s. There isn't any swordsman comparable to him anymore.


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> That could be possible but that was in the past. We have other statements saying that mihawk is the one that sits above all swordsman and is the strongest.
> 
> Also it's possible that mihawk didn't even have the WSS when he was in his mid 20s. There isn't any swordsman comparable to him anymore.


Do you think mental gymnastics such as that will work on me.


*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> ace novel dd imply shanks is the weakest yonko


"shanks has the worlds strongest haki"

that fraud is even a blackbeard victim.

I guess since law is fighting with bb that makes him superior than rat d snitch(im joking)


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> Do you think mental gymnastics such as that will work on me.


Yes

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> We've went over this, it was bedtime for mihawk so he needed to leave.
> 
> Mihawks greatest disciple is sea beast, whenever mihawk bedtime comes around and hes fighting shanks. He just calls his disciple to no diff him again.


Ngl Shanks getting his shit chopped by a sea king mad goofy

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> That could be possible but that was in the past. We have other statements saying that mihawk is the one that sits above all swordsman and is the strongest.


Either way, the principle is established. There can be swordsmen = Mihawk regardless of his title. Title isn't an iron-clad rule. There can also be swordsmen above him (like Zoro will be one day).



> Also it's possible that mihawk didn't even have the WSS when he was in his mid 20s.


"Best swordsman" - unlikely.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Ngl Shanks getting his shit chopped by a sea king mad goofy


His next arm is getting robbed by a mihawk seraphim


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## GreenEggsAHam (Nov 8, 2022)

Mihawk wss so >swordsmen

Then how will wss mihawk lose to zoro?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> Either way, the principle is established. There can be swordsmen = Mihawk regardless of his title. Title isn't an iron-clad rule. There can also be swordsmen above him (like Zoro will be one day).
> 
> 
> "Best swordsman" - unlikely.


Yeah when mihawk didn't have his title.

That isn't the case anymore since he is the strongest swordsman and sits over all(according to his vivre card)


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Mihawk wss so >swordsmen
> 
> Then how will wss mihawk lose to zoro?


Zoro will likely surpass him during the fight. But even this wouldn't invalidate your argument since there will be a point at which Zoro will defeat him while at the same time Mihawk will still have WSS title: i.e. a contradiction. The title doesn't vanish until it becomes public knowledge that Mihawk lost to Zoro.

Basically, titles are strong indicators of strength but they aren't iron-clad rules.



Unresponsive said:


> Yeah when mihawk didn't have his title.


Screw the title. Mihawk _was_ the best swordsman according to that translation. Spoken through Oda directly (and we trust everything he says).



> That isn't the case anymore since he is the strongest swordsman and sits over all(according to his vivre card)


The principle remains.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Mihawk wss so >swordsmen
> 
> Then how will wss mihawk lose to zoro?


Because zoro has the ability of main character development, enhanced xp, and will get powerups mid fight. Also that will be because zoro will surpass mihawk, it is stated that mihawk and other swordsmen are waiting for the man to surpass shanks then mihawk.


Mihawk is the current WSS but will get defeated by zoro. So he will be the second strongest of the current era while zoro is the first.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Because zoro has the ability of main character development, enhanced xp, and will get powerups mid fight. Also that will be because zoro will surpass mihawk, it is stated that mihawk and other swordsmen are waiting for the man to surpass shanks then mihawk.
> 
> 
> Mihawk is the current WSS but will get defeated by zoro. So he will be the second strongest of the current era while zoro is the first.


Headcannon to think the goal he worked for, he will still have a power in the middle of the fight and even that does he have the title? I thought the wss>a swordsmen.


Mad Scientist said:


> Zoro will likely surpass him during the fight. But even this wouldn't invalidate your argument since there will be a point at which Zoro will defeat him while at the same time Mihawk will still have WSS title: i.e. a contradiction. The title doesn't vanish until it becomes public knowledge that Mihawk lost to Zoro.


Exactly for mihawk the only way to get the title is to fight him and beat him so like you said his is not iron clad.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Conxc (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Like, it's one thing to think Mihawk > Shanks. It's one thing to think Shanks is a Haki-wielding swordsman first and foremost, just like Mihawk or somewhat worse. But why do people keep arguing Mihawk is _stronger_ than Shanks just because he's a better swordsman? You can be better than someone in one area and still overall weaker. For instance, Oden apparently possessed the strongest sword style in history, but he never held the title of WSS and I would definitely agree Mihawk > him.


I think the issue lies in people nitpicking the title in the first place. Mihawk’s title isn’t “World’s Most Skilled”, or “World’s Best.” His title is the _World’s *Strongest* Swordsman. _There is no title difference for people who use Haki to supplement their main fighting style being swordsmanship. Haki is a part of the same skill that makes a swordsman a swordsman. Zoro as he was in his debut was a swordsman. Zoro as he is now is a swordsman despite him learning and becoming a very proficient Haki user.

Frankly, there’d be a little more merit to the argument that Mihawk is simply just more skilled if they were implemented strangers in-verse. Their relation to each other has to mean something. Every time we see Shanks, he shows that his fighting style is swordsmanship. The fact that people still deny that he’s a swordsman should tell you all you need to know here. Mihawk is his rival, and also a swordsman…but the kicker here is Oda made Mihawk the WSS out of the two. To me it’s clear as day. I guarantee you people are only so skeptical of the title because _who else _Mihawk is so closely associated to…

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> Screw the title. Mihawk _was_ the best swordsman according to that translation. Spoken through Oda directly (and we trust everything he says).
> 
> 
> The principle remains.


I'll give an example because I cannot explain it well.


My example-Oden fought against the pirate king 
Roger didn't become the PK till a year later.
BUT YOU GET THE POINT. Mihawk wasn't the wss at that time but much later.

Doesn't work anymore


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> I'll give an example because I cannot explain it well.
> 
> 
> My example-Oden fought against the pirate king
> ...


Shanks fought against the best swordsmen.
Mihawk didn't become the best swordsmen till later.

That doesn't even make sense.


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Most likely due to his status and relationship with the WG. Rat D Snitch get's special treatment.
> 
> Bounty is how much you're wanted by the navy. Bounty being used for powerscaling doesn't make sense since luffy, zoro, sanji, and other op characters have been defeating people with higher bounty than them.
> 
> Because the worlds strongest swordsman title is about "strength". How could mihawk be weaker than someone he is stated to be above.


every piece of evidence points to mihawk being weaker lol, it's stupid to even debate it.
likewise luffy and friends don't receive a higher bounty than kaiderp because they all had to land hits to beat kaiderp. don't get sucked into _das meme's_ here. not even nika luffy is beating kaiderp in an isolated 1v1. he's years too soon for that.
shanks would have ability to land the critical hits alone, it's treated as fact that he dispatched kaiderp on a sail-by and in post he sent kaiderp into a depressive spiral where he tried multiple times to kill himself.
mihawk got stalemated by vista. he's an also ran.

so again, tell me, why does the wss title matter?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> mihawk got stalemated by vista. he's an also ran.


It's obvious that Mihawk was holding back.



> so again, tell me, why does the wss title matter?


It provides a good measure of how strong someone is supposed to be, but it's not an iron-clad rule. We can kinda see that with Buggy as well. Titles aren't everything.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> every piece of evidence points to mihawk being weaker lol, it's stupid to even debate it.
> likewise luffy and friends don't receive a higher bounty than kaiderp because they all had to land hits to beat kaiderp. don't get sucked into _das meme's_ here. not even nika luffy is beating kaiderp in an isolated 1v1. he's years too soon for that.
> shanks would have ability to land the critical hits alone, it's treated as fact that he dispatched kaiderp on a sail-by and in post he sent kaiderp into a depressive spiral where he tried multiple times to kill himself.
> mihawk got stalemated by vista. he's an also ran.
> ...


Zoro defeated king who had a higher bounty... 

Why is the luffy thing important?

Critical hits but shanks didn't even give kaido a scar??? 

They clashed twice while mihawk wasn't paying attention. Ran??? Mihawk just decided to fight later which vista said it would be best for the both of us.

The wss title matters because it points out that he is the strongest title. You can bring up portrayal but it doesn't change the fact that canon statements say mihawk is stronger.


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## Soldierofficial (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> It's obvious that Mihawk was holding back.



Vista was holding back as well, Mihawk cannot defeat another Dai Kengou with less than extreme difficulty.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> Shanks fought against the best swordsmen.
> Mihawk didn't become the best swordsmen till later.
> 
> That doesn't even make sense.


Shanks fought mihawk but he was dubbed the best later in time.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Soldierofficial said:


> Vista was holding back as well, Mihawk cannot defeat another Dai Kengou with less than extreme difficulty.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Headcannon to think the goal he worked for, he will still have a power in the middle of the fight and even that does he have the title? I thought the wss>a swordsmen.


Yes wss>any swordsmen till that wss is surpassed. Once that WSS is surpassed there is a new worlds strongest and he stands above all.

It's as simple as that

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Soldierofficial (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


>


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## GreenEggsAHam (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Yes wss>any swordsmen till that wss is surpassed. Once that WSS is surpassed there is a new worlds strongest and he stands above all.


Nah wss means strongest swordsmen so how can you lose to a swordsmen

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Nah wss means strongest swordsmen so how can you lose to a swordsmen


Do you seriously think I am going to fall for your genjutsu and your tricks. You can't strawman me into an easier victory, that's an illegal tactic.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> It's obvious that Mihawk was holding back.


actually it means that vista is just that good relative to mihawk.



Unresponsive said:


> Zoro defeated king who had a higher bounty...
> 
> Why is the luffy thing important?
> 
> ...


the luffy bounty is important because people thought his value was being obfuscated by the government.
it's not, the bounty is accurate. that is his combat potential.

none of nika's moves would have given kaido a scar, there are other ways to defeat opponents in op verse than leaving them with scars.
why would shanks have to leave a scar on anyone? he's a hakiman, he's beyond that.

vista was never defeated by mihawk over the course of the whole battle, so all i'm left with is that mihawk couldn't kill a vista, who is treated as a meme in these parts.
many cascading ramifications of that that i cba to get into.

the wss title doesn't matter because mihawk stopped sparring with his regular sparring partner shanks. he got the title as a default and frankly had stopped caring about the title specifically some time before shanks even lost his arm. he simply enjoyed sparring with shanks and they both got stronger with each encounter.
shanks loses an arm but he's still seeking stronger opponents, mihawk loses his sparring partner and roams the sea's looking for unlucky pirates. it's in the panel's you posted yourself.


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

Soldierofficial said:


> Vista was holding back as well, Mihawk cannot defeat another Dai Kengou with less than extreme difficulty.


What's a Dai Kengou?

Mihawk is rival to 2-handed Shanks >>> Vista.



Unresponsive said:


> Shanks fought mihawk but he was dubbed the best later in time.


Not according to that scan. That scan says that past Shanks = best swordsman (Mihawk).



aiyanah said:


> actually it means that vista is just that good relative to mihawk.


Mihawk is rival to 2-handed Shanks >>> Vista.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Soldierofficial (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> What's a Dai Kengou?
> 
> Mihawk is rival to 2-handed Shanks >>> Vista.
> 
> ...



Great Swordmaster.

Mihawk, Shanks, Ryuma, Vista and other characters have that title.

Zoro currently holds the title of Kengou (Swordmaster), he only received that title after defeating King, scarring Kaido and obtaining Advanced CoC.

Vista also rivals Mihawk's strength, we've seen it in the manga and his Vivre Card confirmed that his skills are comparable to the WSS.

Although Shanks is superior to Vista, as his sword skills are second to Mihawk's according to one databook.

WSS Mihawk > Dai Kengou Shanks > Dai Kengou Vista >> Kengou Zoro

Reactions: Informative 1


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## JoNdule (Nov 8, 2022)

People that think Mihawk > Shanks
Even tho Shanks Haa always gotten better feats and hype whenever shown in actions than Mihawk
Even tho Shanks is Luffy's benchmark /milestone

"Wss" yeah in skills

Reactions: Like 1


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## JoNdule (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> What's a Dai Kengou?
> 
> Mihawk is rival to 2-handed Shanks >>> Vista.
> 
> ...


Rival to a Shanks who had a bounty less than 1B ?
Shanks got 1B 12 years ago after/during Uta stuff.
He didn't even have 1B when he was clashing Mihawk 12+ years ago

That Shanks isn't even a Yonko candidate
Mihawk matched a mere inbetweener or top YC level Shanks

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Rival to a Shanks who had a bounty less than 1B ?
> Shanks got 1B 12 years ago after/during Uta stuff.
> He didn't even have 1B when he was clashing Mihawk 12+ years ago
> 
> ...


Then how about this: Yonko >>> Whitebeard's subordinates who struggled against MF admirals, and Mihawk is >=< current Shanks.


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> Mihawk is rival to 2-handed Shanks >>> Vista.


shanks kept developing and mihawk stagnated.
really we have a snapshot of how strong shanks was at the moment of losing his arm.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> shanks kept developing and mihawk stagnated.
> really we have a snapshot of how strong shanks was at the moment of losing his arm.


Then how about this: Yonko >>> Whitebeard's subordinates who struggled against MF admirals, and Mihawk is >=< current Shanks.


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> Then how about this: Yonko >>> Whitebeard's subordinates who struggled against MF admirals, and Mihawk is >=< current Shanks.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> But why do people keep arguing Mihawk is _stronger_ than Shanks just because he's a better swordsman?


No one does. The argument is Mihawk is stronger than Shanks because Shanks is a swordsman and Mihawk's title is World's STRONGEST Swordsman

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Yumi Zoro (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> If past Shanks = best swordsman, that means past Shanks was also best swordsman alongside Mihawk.





Unresponsive said:


> "was once as strong as the best swordsman in the world(mihawk)"
> Shanks is weaker than mihawk.



Thid just confirm my theory that.

Prime Shanks (two arms Shanks=Mihawk>current Shanks.

Shanks was Once as strong as the best Swordman (Mihawk) but no more.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Yumi Zoro said:


> Thid just confirm my theory that.
> 
> Prime Shanks (two arms Shanks=Mihawk>current Shanks.
> 
> Shanks was Once as strong as the best Swordman (Mihawk) but no more.


Do you actually believe that mihawk hasn't gotten stronger since?


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> "Wss" yeah in skills


Yeah hes a troll


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> actually it means that vista is just that good relative to mihawk.
> 
> 
> the luffy bounty is important because people thought his value was being obfuscated by the government.
> ...


The bounty isn't accurate, it's based on how much you're wanted. There is a reason why nico robin had such a bounty even though he was a child.

Luffy is a bubble gum boy, he can't scar someone without a sword.
I forgot shanks was a hakiman, I can't believe I thought shanks was a swordsman.   

Mihawk didn't even try to kill vista and held back.

Headcanon, he is called stronger and is stated to surpass therefore he surpassed shanks.I doubt someone as drippy as mihawk is going to a snitch.


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> The bounty isn't accurate, it's based on how much you're wanted. There is a reason why nico robin had such a bounty even though he was a child.
> 
> Luffy is a bubble gum boy, he can't scar someone without a sword.
> I forgot shanks was a hakiman, I can't believe I thought shanks was a swordsman.
> ...


when shanks vs luffy is taking place i wonder what you'll say then 
bookmarked


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> when shanks vs luffy is taking place i wonder what you'll say then
> bookmarked


By that time I'll have a million of excuses on how I wasn't wrong but the manga itself was wrong.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> when shanks vs luffy is taking place i wonder what you'll say then
> bookmarked




You sure about that buddy?


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Conxc said:


> I think the issue lies in people nitpicking the title in the first place. Mihawk’s title isn’t “World’s Most Skilled”, or “World’s Best.” His title is the _World’s *Strongest* Swordsman. _There is no title difference for people who use Haki to supplement their main fighting style being swordsmanship. Haki is a part of the same skill that makes a swordsman a swordsman. Zoro as he was in his debut was a swordsman. Zoro as he is now is a swordsman despite him learning and becoming a very proficient Haki user.
> 
> Frankly, there’d be a little more merit to the argument that Mihawk is simply just more skilled if they were implemented strangers in-verse. Their relation to each other has to mean something. Every time we see Shanks, he shows that his fighting style is swordsmanship. The fact that people still deny that he’s a swordsman should tell you all you need to know here. Mihawk is his rival, and also a swordsman…but the kicker here is Oda made Mihawk the WSS out of the two. To me it’s clear as day. I guarantee you people are only so skeptical of the title because _who else _Mihawk is so closely associated to…



Bruh, I'm not saying Mihawk isn't the strongest swordsman. I'm saying Mihawk being the strongest swordsman (and stronger, not just more skilled than Shanks as a swordsman) is not at all mutually exclusive with Shanks being > him overall.



Strobacaxi said:


> No one does. The argument is Mihawk is stronger than Shanks because Shanks is a swordsman and Mihawk's title is World's STRONGEST Swordsman



You're misunderstanding what the terms mean or how they can be interpreted. @ShWanks has already explained this earlier in the thread, around the first or second page.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Bruh, I'm not saying Mihawk isn't the strongest swordsman. I'm saying Mihawk being the strongest swordsman (and stronger, not just more skilled than Shanks as a swordsman) is not at all mutually exclusive with Shanks being > him overall


??

Shanks is a swordsman. If he was stronger than Mihawk, Mihawk would not be WSS.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> ??
> 
> Shanks is a swordsman. If he was stronger than Mihawk, Mihawk would not be WSS.



Or Shanks is a weaker swordsman but a stronger man overall.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Or Shanks is a weaker swordsman but a stronger man overall.


That's not how it works.

Mihawk is the strongest swordsman. If you are a swordsman, you are weaker than him. Shanks is a swordsman.

His title would not be worth anything otherwise. The 2nd most important character's life long dream would be worth nothing.


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## Conxc (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Bruh, I'm not saying Mihawk isn't the strongest swordsman. I'm saying Mihawk being the strongest swordsman (and stronger, not just more skilled than Shanks as a swordsman) is not at all mutually exclusive with Shanks being > him overall.


I more or less understand what you’re saying, but Hakiman is a meme, not an actual thing bro. If Shanks were overall stronger than Mihawk, Shanks would be the WSS, but he isn’t…and he’s clearly a swordsman. Haki has everything to do with fighting style proficiency in OP.


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## Xebec (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Like, it's one thing to think Mihawk > Shanks. It's one thing to think Shanks is a Haki-wielding swordsman first and foremost, just like Mihawk or somewhat worse. But why do people keep arguing Mihawk is _stronger_ than Shanks just because he's a better swordsman? You can be better than someone in one area and still overall weaker. For instance, Oden apparently possessed the strongest sword style in history, but he never held the title of WSS and I would definitely agree Mihawk > him.


mihawk is not stronger than oden and i fucking hate oden just like he is not stronger than shanks or any og yonko/blackbeard/admirals/dragon

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> shanks kept developing and mihawk stagnated.


According to what? Where is the evidence of this?


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> when shanks vs luffy is taking place i wonder what you'll say then
> bookmarked



Huh I wonder what Shanks interactions will be the SH?

Shanks: “You have the CoC? So you also intend to be a king huh?”

Zoro: “Yes, the World Strongest Swordsman!”

Shanks: “So you’re gunning after Hawkeyes?…that’s quite the task, you’ll have to surpass even me”.

Zoro:


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Conxc said:


> I more or less understand what you’re saying, but Hakiman is a meme, not an actual thing bro



Let's say we disagree.



Conxc said:


> If Shanks were overall stronger than Mihawk, Shanks would be the WSS, but he isn’t…and he’s clearly a swordsman. Haki has *everything* to do with fighting style proficiency in OP.



Not everything. It's just one thing (albeit a big deal).


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Ace novel made no mention of his title not being legit,
> 
> ace novel dd imply shanks is the weakest yonko
> 
> And it simply said wb was the strongest man lol.


Ace novel implying Shanks was weakest Yonko 6 yrs ago when he just got the title. It also implied he's the strongest when angered & "unstoppable" unlike the other Yonko he's the only one said to be "unstoppable" when angered which goes in hand with the Gorosei statement about him.


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Ace novel implying Shanks was weakest Yonko 6 yrs ago when he just got the title. It also implied he's the strongest when angered & "unstoppable" unlike the other Yonko he's the only one said to be "unstoppable" when angered which goes in hand with the Gorosei statement about him.


So will we ever see this “anger” Shanks. (Against Teach?)

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

Mystic said:


> So will we ever see this “anger” Shanks. (Against Teach?)


In the final War or against the most broken character in the series like 3 Fruits BB or mastered G5 Luffy. If it's even high diff that puts Shanks over.

Seeing how BB is beating Law I wouldn't doubt Kid rematching Shanks & getting folded


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

I wonder if Oda giving Mihawk a good/impressive showing in the future will change anything? Will that be enough? I just wonder what people want from Mihawk at this point.


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## Gohara (Nov 8, 2022)

I think most on both sides will not be convinced unless Oda outright shows it through on panel action. That's one reason I don't care to discuss this match much.

I don't really blame anyone for the reasons they use for Mihawk being => Shanks. I don't agree with it, but I can't disprove their interpretation of the title.

For me, what keeps me on the Shanks > Mihawk side is:

I don't see Oda saving Shanks for so long in the story, only to be like here's the 10th most powerful character in One Piece. Unless you're Roger, prime Whitebeard or perhaps Imu, I don't think any character will be superior to Shanks. Even then, I'm not entirely sure any character will be superior to Shanks until prime Luffy and prime Blackbeard.

And the likelihood that Luffy won't be surpassing Shanks until Zoro surpasses Mihawk.

And Vista fighting on par with Mihawk for more than a chapter. No, I don't think Mihawk was going 100% all out, but when you look at Shanks getting admirals to retreat from Haki alone and making Jozu groan from Haki alone, the portrayal is more impressive in my mind.

And Shanks being a yonkou, I feel like Oda made a big deal about the yonkou being the most powerful pirates.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Neutral 1


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

Mystic said:


> I wonder if Oda giving Mihawk a good/impressive showing in the future will change anything? Will that be enough? I just wonder what people want from Mihawk at this point.


We want the portrayal his supposed inferior has...is that too much to ask for? Why TF would we want to see him keep dodging & postponing fights, stopped by high tiers, treated like a nobody by fodder Marines, replaced, etc

That's literally the opposite of everything Shanks was shown as.  Shanks asks for ALL fades including Mihawk, makes top tier dodge fights, LITERALLY stated multiple times to be too much or unstoppable, makes mid tier marines & pirates faint & treated as a king by everyone including even KAIDO who only respects the very strongest, Gorosei even respects him. Etc

Can you guys honestly act like Shanks fan don't have good reasoning for thinking he's stronger now? In what small world do Mihawk fans think fans aren't justified in believing Shanks to be superior based on these things?

Blame Oda

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> We want the portrayal his supposed inferior has...is that too much to ask for? Why TF would we want to see him keep dodging & postponing fights, stopped by high tiers, treated like a nobody by fodder Marines, replaced, etc
> 
> That's literally the opposite of everything Shanks was shown as.  Shanks asks for ALL fades including Mihawk, makes top tier dodge fights, LITERALLY stated multiple times to be too much or unstoppable, makes mid tier marines & pirates faint & treated as a king by everyone including even KAIDO who only respects the very strongest, Gorosei even respects him. Etc
> 
> ...


Go off, but yeah I somewhat agree, I don’t blame the fans for them thinking that , I do blame Oda for all of the telling and not showing for Mihawk and not giving him the suitable feats for his level of strength which has infuriated most of us. But still I just keep wondering if Mihawk does give an impressive showing/moment worthy of the his title, his bounty what Oda says about him in relation to Shanks or a more definitive/concrete statement of his strength, will it be enough? What does he have to do to satisfy the fans? Beat/Clash with Shanks, same for the Admirals, beat the Seraphim, split the sky with ACoC like the Yonko? What does he have to do?

This is why I want this Shanks vs Mihawk chapter so we can finally get some real insight and detail on both of them, mainly Mihawk.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

The real question is what the WSS refers to. Is it the strongest person who happens to be a swordsman or just the strongest person in terms of swordsmanship, period?


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> The real question is what the WSS refers to. Is it the strongest person who happens to be a swordsman or just the strongest person in terms of swordsmanship, period?


Well if you don’t like what Zoro says about it than Mihawks vivre card makes it sound like it’s the swordsman who stands at the top of all other swordsman.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Mystic said:


> Well if you don’t like what Zoro says about it than Mihawks vivre card makes it sound like it’s the swordsman who stands at the top of all other swordsman.



Let's see it.


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Let's see it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

I just realized that could still be consistent with the alternative I have proposed lol.


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

At this point I just want Mihawk to fight again, against someone competent/strong, even if we are just given the outcome. Just something…

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 8, 2022)

Mystic said:


> At this point I just want Mihawk to fight again, against someone competent/strong, even if we are just given the outcome. Just something…


Yeah it sucks that we will likely never see him beat anyone of note

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Like, it's one thing to think Mihawk > Shanks. It's one thing to think Shanks is a Haki-wielding swordsman first and foremost, just like Mihawk or somewhat worse. But why do people keep arguing Mihawk is _stronger_ than Shanks just because he's a better swordsman? You can be better than someone in one area and still overall weaker. For instance, Oden apparently possessed the strongest sword style in history, but he never held the title of WSS and I would definitely agree Mihawk > him.


Imo some people just see that shanks is a swordsman hence he's not stronger than mihawk. Which could be true. Everyone agrees that you could be better in 1 area and still be overall weaker. But the problem is that area is too big and covers all of shanks offensive capabilities (style+coating haki+emission haki). Shanks being A swordsman also only offensively relies on these as far. Shanks then has support abilities that make him more versatile but in terms of raw coating and emission power he would still be below mihawk. Sword style=/=skill=\=power. It's just a style it can either be more aggressive or more reactionary etc.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Useful 1


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## Mystic (Nov 8, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> Yeah it sucks that we will likely never see him beat anyone of note


Honestly he doesn’t have to beat someone outright even tho that’d be the best, it can just be a clash with him getting the upper hand or a flex. Just allow him to do something against someone strong.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> In what regard though? It's not saying he'd defeat any Swordsman but rather he's the best with a sword is how I see it.
> 
> Even the best athletes lose in the specialties...
> 
> I'd consider Floyd & better pure boxer than Tyson but he'd lose if they fought regardless if he were ranked #1


This is a piss poor analogy if I've ever seen one. They both do boxing whether they have different styles and weight classes it does not matter. if Tyson beats Floyd Tyson is the strongest/best boxer no? Floyd is just a weaker boxer with a better technique. this doesn't apply to shanks or mihawk because mihawk is both a more skilled and a stronger swordsman no?


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## Ezekjuninor (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> Prime WB =/= heart attacks WB. For someone to be getting heart attacks, their condition must have deteriorated to a large degree. .


WB deteriorated greatly but was still known as the WSM and ruler of the sea.


Mad Scientist said:


> You think heart attacks WB, who was damaged by a MF Akainu, is stronger than Shanks?
> 
> Shanks intercepted Kaido


Yes, are you implying that being damaged by MF Akainu is a bad thing? WB was nerfed through the Squardo stab and under unfair circumstances during the fight and still came out victorious. Akainu is one of the strongest characters in the series. WB struggling against Akainu while being blindsided and badly injured isn't a bad feat.

We don't know how Shanks dealt with Kaidou, without any information on what happened it isn't particularly impressive.


> intercepted Akainu, and was prepared to fight every MF at MF.


2 things that WB already did. Shanks being prepared to fight MF after their forces were weakened and having the remnants of the WB pirates to back him up is not as impressive as WB taking on MF with just his crew.



> He's someone for Luffy to surpass (who beat Kaido recently).


How do we know Luffy hasn't surpassed him already?


> Rivaled Mihawk.


When he had both arms, also, Mihawk and Shanks are both weaker than WB.


> Made Green Bull piss his pants and flee.
> 
> Defeats Kizaru in seconds in Film Red.


This was impressive but still doesn't show how a fight between the two of them would go.

Also, movie is non-canon


> Kaido placed Shanks in the same elite class as other legendary pirates that can fight him such as Roger, Prime Whitebeard, Xebec.


Shanks being placed next to WB isn't evidence that Shanks is stronger than WB.

None of this proves that Shanks is stronger than WB who was officially known as the World's Strongest Man. To discredit that title you would need strong evidence such as Shanks defeating someone who WB couldn't, Shanks displaying that he was stronger than WB, or a statement which puts Shanks ahead of Old WB at least. Shanks blocking an attack by Akainu or being a rival to Mihawk isn't proof of this.


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

Mystic said:


> Go off, but yeah I somewhat agree, I don’t blame the fans for them thinking that , I do blame Oda for all of the telling and not showing for Mihawk and not giving him the suitable feats for his level of strength which has infuriated most of us. But still I just keep wondering if Mihawk does give an impressive showing/moment worthy of the his title, his bounty what Oda says about him in relation to Shanks or a more definitive/concrete statement of his strength, will it be enough? What does he have to do to satisfy the fans? Beat/Clash with Shanks, same for the Admirals, beat the Seraphim, split the sky with ACoC like the Yonko? What does he have to do?
> 
> This is why I want this Shanks vs Mihawk chapter so we can finally get some real insight and detail on both of them, mainly Mihawk.


Honestly he just has to have a noticable superior showing against any top tier without Plot armor like BB or Luffy to be deserving of his hype. 

He could also get the same reaction from people as Shanks.


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> This is a piss poor analogy if I've ever seen one. They both do boxing whether they have different styles and weight classes it does not matter. if Tyson beats Floyd Tyson is the strongest/best boxer no? Floyd is just a weaker boxer with a better technique. this doesn't apply to shanks or mihawk because mihawk is both a more skilled and a stronger swordsman no?


Wow...you really need to read what you typed slowly. I saw it in no less than seconds of reading the first 3 sentences.

it's literally the exact same thing as Shanks vs Mihawk(assuming Mihawk is weaker)


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> This is a piss poor analogy if I've ever seen one. They both do boxing whether they have different styles and weight classes it does not matter. if Tyson beats Floyd Tyson is the strongest/best boxer no? Floyd is just a weaker boxer with a better technique. this doesn't apply to shanks or mihawk because mihawk is both a more skilled and a stronger swordsman no?


Look for my UFC analogy. It's explains in detail what I mean.


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Something less off-brand than you are, from the looks of it
> 
> Shanks is a powerhouse who just happens to be a swordsman. It's not his near-entire niche and character like it is Mihawk's.
> 
> ...


I think that's the point you're missing. You're ignoring the fact Haki being a component of becoming a strong swordsman because your bias is utterly undone by this small understanding. If to become a strong swordsman you need strong haki then the strongest swordsman must have the strongest haki(coating at the very least,not observation or anything) and technique out of every swordsman. Let go of your bias and open up.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Wow...you really need to read what you typed slowly. I saw it in no less than seconds of reading the first 3 sentences.
> 
> it's literally the exact same thing as Shanks vs Mihawk(assuming Mihawk is weaker)


No because your very first analogy is literally.
Shanks(tyson) is a stronger swordsman but mihawk(Floyd) is more skilled. Mihawk(Floyd) is considered a better swordsman but shanks(Tyson) still wins?? Do you see how this analogy fails in the very beginning. Mihawk is the stronger boxer as his own title explains  you'd literally have to assume mihawk is not stronger than shanks in the first place.


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> No because your very first analogy is literally.
> Shanks(tyson) is a stronger swordsman but mihawk(Floyd) is more skilled. Mihawk(Floyd) is considered a better swordsman but shanks(Tyson) still wins?? Do you see how this analogy fails in the very beginning. Mihawk is the stronger boxer as his own title explains  you'd literally have to assume mihawk is not stronger than shanks in the first place.





ShWanks said:


> So if two UFC fighters are ranked as the #1 & #2 UFC fighters in the world but of significantly differing weight classes with #2 being in Heavy Weight while #1 is in Feather Weight.
> 
> Would #1 be favored to defeat #2 just because of his title despite being 100lbs lighter?
> 
> ...


This is what I was saying


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> So if two UFC fighters are ranked as the #1 & #2 UFC fighters in the world but of significantly differing weight classes with #2 being in Heavy Weight while #1 is in Feather Weight.
> 
> Would #1 be favored to defeat #2 just because of his title despite being 100lbs lighter?
> 
> ...


Again just terrible analogy because #1 isn't just the greatest UFC fighter. He's the strongest UFC fighter no?? Plus you're literally making the assumption that they're in different weight classes. Didn't #2 fail to beat #1 hence why #1 is still #1?? So you're saying that if number #2 and #1 were to cross swords #2 would overpowered #1 based on that sword swing alone??????
You keep coming with bad analogies that have nothing to do with reality.


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> Again just terrible analogy because #1 isn't just the greatest UFC fighter. He's the strongest UFC fighter no?? Plus you're literally making the assumption that they're in different weight classes. Didn't #2 fail to beat #1 hence why #1 is still #1?? So you're saying that if number #2 and #1 were to cross swords #2 would overpowered #1 based on that sword swing alone??????
> You keep coming with bad analogies that have nothing to do with reality.


The point isn't who is or isn't #1. I just used names. You're too focused on that & not the overall point.

Let's say the UFC ranked it's 2 best fighters overall but they were from differing weight classes. This analogy would be spot on.

That's the point. Even the strongest can & WILL lose. That's literally how Zoro will attain his dream...


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## GreenEggsAHam (Nov 8, 2022)

weevil by vivre card has strongest blood in the shibachuki.

Weevil>Mihawk

So Mihawk>shanks to hype weevil.


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> The point isn't who is or isn't #1. I just used names. You're too focused on that & not the overall point.
> 
> Let's say the UFC ranked it's 2 best fighters overall but they were from differing weight classes. This analogy would be spot on.
> 
> That's the point. Even the strongest can & WILL lose. That's literally how Zoro will attain his dream...


That was literally a pivotal point of your analogy tho. Again as I said piss poor analogy. If you gotta ignore 50% of stuff in your analogy to make it even slightly comparable than you need a better analogy. The assumption from 2 different weight classes come from the difference in power durability and size it literally does not apply to shanks and mihawk as mihawk himself was stated to be a stronger "UFC fighter" than shanks.
Like the more you keep going the more you destroy your analogy did you pass your sat's/English grammar exams??

Ok so you agree that mihawk IS STRONGER. But he can maybe lose in a fight. You literally just said it you're all over the place FAM. I'm literally trying to argue in good faith but you keep destroying yourself.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Let's say the UFC ranked it's 2 best fighters overall but they were from differing weight classes. This analogy would be spot on.


Except Mihawk isn't the best swordsman. He's the strongest swordsman.

If the UFC ranked it's 2 strongest fighters, there would be no differing weight classes, the best heavyweight fighters would #1 and #2

That's not a good analogy, and it shows the opposite of what you want


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> There's no way Oda would stoop shanks down below mihawk
> 
> a younger shanks was able to duel with the supposed strongest swordman when he was indeed young
> 
> ...


Fast forward and mihawk even tho he became a much stronger Swordsman(shanks only style of fighting as far as we know) mihawk still doesn't think he's worthy(strong enough to fight him). Can we literally just agree their equals like ffs


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> Except Mihawk isn't the best swordsman. He's the strongest swordsman.
> 
> If the UFC ranked it's 2 strongest fighters, there would be no differing weight classes, the best heavyweight fighters would #1 and #2
> 
> That's not a good analogy, and it shows the opposite of what you want


Again, I told him his analogy seems like something he came up with in 5 seconds and he thought it was the best analogy ever. And to cover his tracks he just says "ok forget about that part of the analogy"


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Oda himself was also the one who made Mihawk clash with yonko commanders while making Shanks confronting top greats of the OP world
> 
> that's not the point
> 
> ...


You think oda making buggy a yonko as a repeating gag of him always somehow ending up being at the top as something to do with mihawk's own power???? You're trolling right?


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## Conxc (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Let's say we disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> Not everything. It's just one thing (albeit a big deal).


I mean…what’s the biggest difference between pre-G5 post timeskip Luffy and pre-ts Luffy? What’s the difference between Zoro’s pre-ts Oni Giri, Shishi Sonson, Asura vs the current versions of those attacks? Skill? Haki literally acted as a multiplier for these characters. Without Haki proficiency, they would probably be the same as they were pre-ts with maybe better base stats, but nowhere near as strong as they are now. Zoro is climbing the ladder as a swordsman as he gets more proficient with Haki. Mihawk standing at the apex of the swordsmen heavily implies that he is an absolute Haki beast, as you’d need to be to hold his title. If current Zoro had a clone with the same moves, but couldn’t use Haki, who’d win in a duel? Better yet, who’s win in a duel between RT Zoro and AdCoC Zoro?

Reactions: Like 1


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Mihawk relies solely all in his sword
> 
> powerful haki can overcome better sword skill
> 
> unless you think vice versa


Strong swordsman rely on haki to be stronger  mihawk, shanks,zoro, ryuma, every wano swordsman, the marine swordsman in dressrosa. Mihawk has the strongest coating out of any swordsman hence why he's the strongest swordsman


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 8, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Mihawk standing at the apex of the swordsmen heavily implies that he is an absolute Haki beast


This is obvious to anyone who isn't biased

Everytime Zoro got stronger post TS was haki

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Conxc (Nov 8, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> This is obvious to anyone who isn't biased
> 
> Everytime Zoro got stronger post TS was haki


Literally _every_ time, and that’s going to continue to be the case. I think people are really expecting Mihawk to beg Zoro to turn his Haki off during their final duel.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> Except Mihawk isn't the best swordsman. He's the strongest swordsman.
> 
> If the UFC ranked it's 2 strongest fighters, there would be no differing weight classes, the best heavyweight fighters would #1 and #2
> 
> That's not a good analogy, and it shows the opposite of what you want


Actually no, let's say Jon Jones is the best UFC light heavy weight & ranked #1 but the 2nd best UFC fighter is Stipe Miocic who's the best Heavyweight. Jon Jones can very well be capable of beating any heavyweight other than the champion. In fact this exact analogy is currently in the making.

If Jon loses to him my analogy is nearly spot on.


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Actually no, let's say Jon Jones is the best UFC light heavy weight & ranked #1 but the 2nd best UFC fighter is Stipe Miocic who's the best Heavyweight. Jon Jones can very well be capable of beating any heavyweight other than the champion. In fact this exact analogy is currently in the making.
> 
> If Jon loses to him my analogy is nearly spot on.


wwe analogies always work best.
it's brock lesnar vs rey mysterio, and people are saying that rey mysterio is going to beat brock lesnar because rey mysterio is the world heavyweight champion. because rey mysterio is the world heavyweight champion he must be the better wrestler.
vince will pick whoever makes more money, but who passes the eye test?


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Actually no, let's say Jon Jones is the best UFC light heavy weight & ranked #1 but the 2nd best UFC fighter is Stipe Miocic who's the best Heavyweight. Jon Jones can very well be capable of beating any heavyweight other than the champion. In fact this exact analogy is currently in the making.
> 
> If Jon loses to him my analogy is nearly spot on.


Glad you're incapable of even surmounting a defence of your anology and instead you gotta make a new (still bad) analogy

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> ??
> 
> Shanks is a swordsman. If he was stronger than Mihawk, Mihawk would not be WSS.


It's as simple as that


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> wwe analogies always work best.
> it's brock lesnar vs rey mysterio, and people are saying that rey mysterio is going to beat brock lesnar because rey mysterio is the world heavyweight champion. because rey mysterio is the world heavyweight champion he must be the better wrestler.
> vince will pick whoever makes more money, but who passes the eye test?


John cena vs shiryuu.


John cena is more advanced in being invisible, he was shown to fight on par with the undertaker and even tame him but was knocked out.
Shiryuu is a bloostlusted fodder who can only go invisible but will be tracked by a hakimen such as john cena.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> This is obvious to anyone who isn't biased
> 
> Everytime Zoro got stronger post TS was haki


No mihawk doesn't use a haki! he uses sword skills but not strength!.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Conxc said:


> I mean…what’s the biggest difference between pre-G5 post timeskip Luffy and pre-ts Luffy? What’s the difference between Zoro’s pre-ts Oni Giri, Shishi Sonson, Asura vs the current versions of those attacks? Skill? Haki literally acted as a multiplier for these characters. Without Haki proficiency, they would probably be the same as they were pre-ts with maybe better base stats, but nowhere near as strong as they are now. Zoro is climbing the ladder as a swordsman as he gets more proficient with Haki. Mihawk standing at the apex of the swordsmen heavily implies that he is an absolute Haki beast, as you’d need to be to hold his title. If current Zoro had a clone with the same moves, but couldn’t use Haki, who’d win in a duel? Better yet, who’s win in a duel between RT Zoro and AdCoC Zoro?



I really don't know why you bother telling me something I already know, fam. You're wasting your time. Shanks could come up with a Haki-empowered gun or tech for all I know.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> wwe analogies always work best.
> it's brock lesnar vs rey mysterio, and people are saying that rey mysterio is going to beat brock lesnar because rey mysterio is the world heavyweight champion. because rey mysterio is the world heavyweight champion he must be the better wrestler.
> vince will pick whoever makes more money, but who passes the eye test?


I would say brock lesnar but we also can't forget about his sidekick leo rush, he has been shown to chain combos in an instant. So in reality 2pac is passes the hearing test while a blindman like fujitora passes the eye test.


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> wwe analogies always work best.
> it's brock lesnar vs rey mysterio, and people are saying that rey mysterio is going to beat brock lesnar because rey mysterio is the world heavyweight champion. because rey mysterio is the world heavyweight champion he must be the better wrestler.
> vince will pick whoever makes more money, but who passes the eye test?


Right comparing acting with actual sports absolute idiotlet's play along tho... But Rey Mysterio is not stronger than Brock. While mihawk is stated to be the strongest swordsman. So how else would shanks be stronger mihawk besides in versatility?? Like basic conquerors??
Also just terrible analogy altogether the title implies that mihawk has fought most strong swordsman(including shanks) and he doesn't lose to them... So according to your analogy Rey Mysterio already fought Brock and either won or stalemated bare minimum  don't skip school kids. Don't wanna end up like this one.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Shanks could come up with a Haki-empowered gun or tech for all I know.


"Haki empowered gun"
The guy uses a sword...

Wait until mihawk actually tries


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> Right comparing acting with actual sports absolute idiotlet's play along tho... But Rey Mysterio is not stronger than Brock. While mihawk is stated to be the strongest swordsman. So how else would shanks be stronger mihawk besides in versatility?? Like basic conquerors??
> Also just terrible analogy altogether the title implies that mihawk has fought most strong swordsman(including shanks) and he doesn't lose to them... So according to your analogy Rey Mysterio already fought Brock and either won or stalemated bare minimum  don't skip school kids. Don't wanna end up like this one.


If you don't like that, just wait till you see his kaido>the legendary pirates arguments.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> "Haki empowered gun"
> The guy uses a sword...
> 
> Wait until mihawk actually tries



He can still use a gun like he did in one of the video games


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> He can still use a gun like he did in one of the video games


I've seen luffy use ice abilities in my dreams does that count for feats?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> I've seen luffy use ice abilities in my dreams does that count for feats?


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> Right comparing acting with actual sports absolute idiot


it's sports entertainment, genius.
what, are the bumps and bruises also scripted?
you not done any research?


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## Quipchaque (Nov 8, 2022)

deltaniner said:


> Hashirama was the WSS (World's Strongest Senju)
> 
> Would you consider it a reasonable argument to say another Senju is above him through "Non-Senju" techniques and ways? Yes or no?



If his second name isn't Senju but Kaguya then yes. That makes Kaguya the WSK. (World's strongest Kaguya)


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> it's sports entertainment, genius.
> what, are the bumps and bruises also scripted?
> you not done any research?


There's a literal script and fights are pre-determined. Rey Mysterio won because he was popular
You are not serious. I don't need to be a genius to know the difference between comparing boxing to acting you on the other hand...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> There's a literal script and fights are pre-determined. Rey Mysterio won because he was popular
> You are not serious. I don't need to be a genius to know the difference between comparing boxing to acting you on the other hand...



Yeah, that's a bad comparison, ngl


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

bruh  
the fucking wrestling is scripted, yet it's less scripted than the fucking fiction we are discussing 
what do these smooth brained rat guano's @ me with? fucking wrestling is scripted? 
no fucking shit sherlock, that's why the analogy fucking works.
pick your heel, pick your face, O D A banks regardless, he's fucking vince, he done it so fucking good that they actually think one peice isn't scripted. THEY THINK ITS A SPORT 
_*PURE SPORTS ANALOGIES ONLY!!*_
HOLY SHIT
CAN WE GIVE O D A HIS FUCKING FLOWERS???? THEY'RE COMPLAINING THAT A SPORT WITH SCRIPTED OUTCOMES IS BEING USED FOR AN ANALOGY IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT A FICTIONAL STORY.
i can't


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## ShWanks (Nov 8, 2022)

It


olorun said:


> Glad you're incapable of even surmounting a defence of your anology and instead you gotta make a new (still bad) analogy


You're reading comprehension is utter garbage. It's literally the exact same analogy only with names...


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

=


ShWanks said:


> It
> 
> You're reading comprehension is utter garbage. It's literally the exact same analogy only with names...


 "you're reading comprehension".

Your analogy isn't changing mihawk>Lhanks


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> bruh
> the fucking wrestling is scripted, yet it's less scripted than the fucking fiction we are discussing
> what do these smooth brained rat guano's @ me with? fucking wrestling is scripted?
> no fucking shit sherlock, that's why the analogy fucking works.
> ...


What did I do and why are you replying to me


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## aiyanah (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> What did I do and why are you replying to me


i'm just jumping off on your post cause you responded.


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> =
> 
> "you're reading comprehension".
> 
> Your analogy isn't changing mihawk>Lhanks


I'm not sure if he's pretending to be like this. Or if he's actually like this...


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Stop, y'all.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Soldierofficial (Nov 8, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> It
> 
> You're reading comprehension is utter garbage. It's literally the exact same analogy only with names...



Your analogy doesn't make any sense since we know that Mihawk is not the swordsman with the best technique but the one who can defeat any other swordsman in a fight so stop repeating this nonsense Maru.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Stop, y'all.


Ayt, just concede. mihawk has stronger coating and emission haki while shanks has better base conquerors. if they clashed swords mihawk has to win otherwise he wouldn't be the strongest swordsman.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> Ayt, just concede



Nah.


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## Soldierofficial (Nov 8, 2022)

- Fujitora
- BM
- Vista
- Smoothie
- Cracker
- Zoro
- Shanks
- Law
- Rayleigh
- Shiryu

All those characters from YC level to Yonko/Admiral level are swordsmen who are currently alive in the story and therefore they are inferior to Mihawk, inferior in strength not in technique, Mihawk would not lose a fight against any of them which is why he's the WSS right now.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Soldierofficial said:


> - Fujitora
> - BM
> - Vista
> - Smoothie
> ...



Fixed.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Nov 8, 2022)

Soldierofficial said:


> - Fujitora
> - BM
> - Vista
> - Smoothie
> ...


Bm isn't a swordsmen

fuji is confirmed not to be.

again just because he's wss doesn't mean he can't lose that's why zoro going to beat him


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

It's like Guy being the best Taijutsu user from Konoha. Until the WA, you probably wouldn't call him the strongest fighter from the village, but you damn sure would call him the best at Taijutsu (even though plenty of other Konoha ninja like SM Naruto, Asuma, and Kakashi were strong at it too).


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> I'm not sure if he's pretending to be like this. Or if he's actually like this...


he's serious


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> It's like Guy being the best Taijutsu user from Konoha. Until the WA, you probably wouldn't call him the strongest fighter from the village, but you damn sure would call him the best at Taijutsu (even though plenty of other Konoha ninja like SM Naruto, Asuma, and Kakashi were strong at it too).


He was called the best at tai but not the strongest.

There is an obvious difference mihawk is called the strongest, best, and greatest therefore he is all of that.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> He was called the best at tai but not the strongest



A distinction without a difference.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Fixed.


Ah yes mihawk never won a normal fair fight but instead fought people in a test sword skills. That makes no sense

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> A distinction without a difference.


There is a difference.


A trash example is the best fighter vs the strongest fighter. It's how you said "guy may be the best at tai but not stronger than anyone else in the village before war arc"

Mihawk is the strongest swordsman so he is stronger than other swordsman. It's not that hard to comprehend maru

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 8, 2022)

aiyanah said:


> i'm just jumping off on your post cause you responded.


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## Soldierofficial (Nov 8, 2022)



Reactions: Lewd 1


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Nah.


So is this always the debate with shanks defenders?? Facts are pointed out and instead of being good faith and accept something's you simply cover your ears??

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> So is this always the debate with shanks defenders?? Facts are pointed out and instead of being good faith and accept something's you simply cover your ears??



No, but this is how (some) Mihawk debaters clearly operate. Present company included.


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## Rey (Nov 8, 2022)

What the fuck is up with this phrasing? No kid or esteemed, intellectual powerscaler cares about skills. The manga never cared about swordskills. What a bizarre phrase


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> It's like Guy being the best Taijutsu user from Konoha. Until the WA, you probably wouldn't call him the strongest fighter from the village, but you damn sure would call him the best at Taijutsu (even though plenty of other Konoha ninja like SM Naruto, Asuma, and Kakashi were strong at it too).


Uh... You would just because he didn't use the 8 gates before doesn't mean he's any less capable of being that powerful. We wouldn't have called him the strongest because we didn't know what he was capable of at the time but in hindsight he was the most powerful ninja IN THE WORLD up until 6 paths Naruto and sasuke.


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> No, but this is how (some) Mihawk debaters clearly operate. Present company included.


... My guy we literally just broke down your and shwanks arguments and presented a perfect counter and you... Just said no and didn't want to concede...


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> ... My guy we literally just broke down your and shwanks arguments and presented a perfect counter and you... Just said no and didn't want to concede...



I literally pointed out possibilities as to how Shanks can be > Mihawk even if Mihawk is a superior swordsman. You have yet to even acknowledge them. Any of you.



olorun said:


> Uh... You would just because he didn't use the 8 gates before doesn't mean he's any less capable of being that powerful. We wouldn't have called him the strongest because we didn't know what he was capable of at the time but in hindsight he was the most powerful ninja IN THE WORLD up until 6 paths Naruto and sasuke.



We're talking about Guy without the Eight Gates.


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I literally pointed out possibilities as to how Shanks can be > Mihawk even if Mihawk is a superior swordsman. You have yet to even acknowledge them. Any of you.
> 
> 
> 
> We're talking about Guy without the Eight Gates.


What possibilities are those?? Base conquerors haki?? It doesn't work on characters around his level(lucky roo no sold it right next to him). I acknowledged them and debunked them we agree that if shanks and mihawk were to clash with coated swords mihawk would have to win since he's the stronger out of the 2 in swordsmanship. So coating and advcoc are out of the picture for shanks what else would he have?? I agree that shanks is more versatile but that doesn't make him STRONGER.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> What possibilities are those?? Base conquerors haki?? It doesn't work on characters around his level(lucky roo no sold it right next to him). I acknowledged them and debunked them we agree that if shanks and mihawk were to clash with coated swords mihawk would have to win since he's the stronger out of the 2 in swordsmanship. So coating and advcoc are out of the picture for shanks what else would he have?? I agree that shanks is more versatile but that doesn't make him STRONGER.





Aegon Targaryen said:


> I really don't know why you bother telling me something I already know, fam. You're wasting your time. Shanks could come up with a Haki-empowered gun or tech for all I know.



Like I said, you're wasting your time.

And now you seem fit to waste mine too.


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I literally pointed out possibilities as to how Shanks can be > Mihawk even if Mihawk is a superior swordsman. You have yet to even acknowledge them. Any of you.
> 
> 
> 
> We're talking about Guy without the Eight Gates.


Guy was still the strongest BECAUSE HE STILL HAD THE 8 GATES it's not because he doesn't use them in that exact moment that he's not as strong...

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> Guy was still the strongest BECAUSE HE STILL HAD THE 8 GATES it's not because he doesn't use them in that exact moment that he's not as strong...



Man, you do realize I'm talking about him without the final Gate, right? 

To be fair, that's partially my bad for not being clearer.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

@Empathy Let's hear it.


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Like I said, you're wasting your time.
> 
> And now you seem fit to waste mine too.


A... Haki gun. Something shanks never used... Is that your example of "I've shown you things that could give shanks an edge" ... Made up stuff?? Im baffed


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## Soldierofficial (Nov 8, 2022)

It's growing...


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> A... Haki gun. Something shanks never used... Is that your example of "I've shown you things that could give shanks an edge" ... Made up stuff?? Im baffed



Yet we know guns and advanced technology exist in the world of OP...


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> What?? Are you actually mentally ok?? You said "you wouldn't call guy the strongest guy around". Yes you would, he has the 8th gate way before the war arc. Why would you not count it?? Just because it dismantles your narrative right? Guy was the strongest guy around period.
> Again give me a reason why you want to exclude the 8th gate.



Maybe because the 8G wasn't part of his portrayal until he finally opened it 

Maru


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Yet we know guns and advanced technology exist in the world of OP...


... But we never saw shanks use them constantly. You know... Like when he uses his sword... Why would it be part of his arsenal all of a sudden besides the fact that you've got no arguments?


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> ... But we never saw shanks use them constantly. You know... Like when he uses his sword... Why would it be part of his arsenal all of a sudden besides the fact that you've got no arguments?



It was in the video game. And why does he need to use it constantly?


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Maybe because the 8G wasn't part of his portrayal until he finally opened it
> 
> Maru


It was still part of his character and he could have used it at any time if he so desired again just because he chooses not to use it doesn't mean he can't. 8 gates is part of guy from beginning of Naruto till end of Shippuden. Just because we viewers didn't know that doesn't mean it's not true.


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> It was in the video game. And why does he need to use it constantly?


To say that he uses it in character he at least needs to show some level of frequency. So far. He's never even thought of using a gun as far as we know... Shanks is a swordsman. Drop it


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> It was still part of his character



But not his portrayal. Yet.



olorun said:


> and he could have used it at any time if he so desired again just because he chooses not to use it doesn't mean he can't. 8 gates is part of guy from beginning of Naruto till end of Shippuden. Just because we viewers didn't know that doesn't mean it's not true.



Useless information is useless, Maru.



olorun said:


> To say that he uses it in character he at least needs to show some level of frequency. So far. He's never even thought of using a gun as far as we know... Shanks is a swordsman. Drop it



No u


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## olorun (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> But not his portrayal. Yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wtf does his portrayal have to do with the fact that he has it? Why do you think kishi had him out during the pain invasion  you're definitely a terrible debater dude. Your point was that guy was called the greatest taijutsu user but wasn't the strongest guy around but he was the strongest guy around and best taijutsu user

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

olorun said:


> Wtf does his portrayal have to do with the fact that he has it? Why do you think kishi had him out during the pain invasion  you're definitely a terrible debater dude. Your point was that guy was called the greatest taijutsu user but wasn't the strongest guy around but he was the strongest guy around and best taijutsu user





I give up. You're not worth my time.

Guy was only the strongest guy around AFTER he opened the Eighth Gate. Before that, people even saw him as a liability against Pain at one time. Going by your logic, Shanks can be > Mihawk even if there is no current hard evidence, so you also just wrecked yourself


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## Soldierofficial (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Yet we know guns and advanced technology exist in the world of OP...



Roger used a gun but he was still a swordsman and weaker than Mihawk so I don't understand why Shanks using a gun would be proof of his superiority over Mihawk.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 8, 2022)

Soldierofficial said:


> Roger used a gun but he was still a swordsman and *weaker than Mihawk *so I don't understand why Shanks using a gun would be proof of his superiority over Mihawk.



Stronger, actually.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Soldierofficial (Nov 8, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Stronger, actually.



Not according to feats and portrayal.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## JoNdule (Nov 8, 2022)

Mad Scientist said:


> Then how about this: Yonko >>> Whitebeard's subordinates who struggled against MF admirals, and Mihawk is >=< current Shanks.


Yeah in skills 

Buggy & Yonko are the ones whom the world view = Shanks or superior than him in power

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## JoNdule (Nov 8, 2022)

Every warlord stagnated since they weren't active fighting strong people again
They also lost their ambitions or will in a way

Shanks grew more than Mihawk did in these 12 years :
Shanks stops kaido while Mihawk is stopped by Vista
Shanks matches WB while Mihawk slash doesn't even reach wb coz Jozu stops it 
Shanks freezes GB while Mihawk backs down per Croco words
Shanks stops Akainu while Mihawk runs away from marine fleet(no top VA, no seraphim around)

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## JoNdule (Nov 8, 2022)

I forgot

Kaido respects Shanks but considers every warlord worthless
BM hypes Yonko as her challenge while doesn't bother hyping any warlord.

"Mihawk is above Shanks coz Brannew and people say he has better skills than Shanks"

Tell that to Kaido who sees everywhere warlord including Posthawk not worth his hype.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mystic (Nov 9, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Yeah in skills
> 
> Buggy & Yonko are the ones whom the world view = Shanks or superior than him in power


Question really and this is for everyone else in the thread @Aegon Targaryen , what is the difference between saying he surpasses Shanks swordsmanship and saying he surpasses him as a fighter because that’s his style. If Oda said Mihawk was above Zoros swordsmanship wouldn’t u scale him directly above because he uses his swordsmanship as a swordsman to fight his battles. Why is it different for Shanks? Is he not also a swordsman too? Explain to me?

Seriously what do you think “swordsmanship” is? If I’m not mistaken it is a literal_ battle/combat art or a style of fighting._

Also again the WG still didn’t give Buggy the higher bounty despite them doing it for literally every other Yonko and captain in canon. So do they really think Buggy is above him, particularly in power?

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 9, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> This is from the manga itself.


That's not Oda. That's the narrator or in-verse perception. Oda has said he doesn't want the readers to even know an author exists. So he isn't giving out word of god statements.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 9, 2022)

Mystic said:


> Question really and this is for everyone else in the thread @Aegon Targaryen , what is the difference between saying he surpasses Shanks swordsmanship and saying he surpasses him as a fighter because that’s his style. If Oda said Mihawk was above Zoros swordsmanship wouldn’t u scale him directly above because he uses his swordsmanship as a swordsman to fight his battles. Why is it different for Shanks? Is he not also a swordsman too? Explain to me?
> 
> Seriously what do you think “swordsmanship” is? If I’m not mistaken it is a literal_ battle/combat art or a style of fighting._
> 
> Also again the WG still didn’t give Buggy the higher bounty despite them doing it for literally every other Yonko and captain in canon. So do they really think Buggy is above him, particularly in power?



Maybe because Zoro and Mihawk are both "pure swordsmen" whereas Shanks's actual fighting style is still largely unknown or not confirmed. Y'all denying that inconvenient detail is really starting to get old.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 1 | Lewd 1


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## Mystic (Nov 9, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Maybe because Zoro and Mihawk are both "pure swordsmen" whereas Shanks's actual fighting style is still largely unknown or not confirmed. Y'all denying that inconvenient detail is really starting to get old.


Wdym “pure swordsman”? What the heck is that? Oda wouldn’t have compared Mihawk to Shanks if his fighting style wasn’t largely revolved as a swordsman like him. The comparison wouldn’t make sense otherwise.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Disagree 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 9, 2022)

Mystic said:


> Wdym “pure swordsman”? What the heck is that? Oda *wouldn’t have compared Mihawk to Shanks if his fighting style wasn’t largely revolved as a swordsman like him*. The comparison wouldn’t make sense otherwise.



You know what I meant. We've scarcely even seen Shanks fight or so much as call a technique. All this means is that Shanks is supposed to be strong in swordsmanship (as the Whitebeard clash shows) and Mihawk is even better.

Anything else is an assumption.


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 9, 2022)

Mystic said:


> At this point I just want Mihawk to fight again, against someone competent/strong, even if we are just given the outcome. Just something…


Oda really dropped the ball. He could have had him defeat Kizaru and backup while he was being chased, for instance.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mystic (Nov 9, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Oda really dropped the ball. He could have had him defeat Kizaru and backup while he was being chased, for instance.


Frfr, well CG gives him *one more* opportunity to face off against a powerful marine. Anyone as long as it’s someone noteworthy which at this point are only the admirals. Unless there’s someone else. I just want something, anything that can give him merit.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 9, 2022)

Btw Shanks is actually a better swordsman than Mihawk. They were equal when he had two arms, despite Mihawk having Yoru, the world's strongest blade. With equal weaponry, Mihawk loses.

It's similar to Arthur Dayne being stronger than Selmy with Dawn but equal when they have similar swords. Though in this case, Mihawk needs the Dawn equivalent just to equal Shanks. 

TLDR: Shanks >


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 9, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Btw Shanks is actually a better swordsman than Mihawk. They were equal when he had two arms, despite Mihawk having Yoru, the world's strongest blade. With equal weaponry, Mihawk loses.


Did he have Yoru? Was Yoru a black blade at the time?

The things y'all know, it's simply amazing

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 9, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> Did he have Yoru? Was Yoru a black blade at the time?
> 
> The things y'all know, it's simply amazing


If he didn't, then he wouldn't have said they can't settle things because Shanks had one arm. He would have known that Yoru would put him above Shanks even with both arms.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 9, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> If he didn't, then he wouldn't have said they can't settle things because Shanks had one arm. He would have known that Yoru would put him above Shanks even with both arms.


wut? That doesn't even make sense dude


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 9, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> wut? That doesn't even make sense dude


Yes, it does if you have the ability to actually change your mind.

Shanks with two arms = as strong as WSS Mihawk

If, according to you, Shanks with two arms = As strong as Mihawk without Yoru or  without Yoru being black
then
Shanks with two arms = weaker than Mihawk with black Yoru
then
No need to say they can't settle things due to one arm, as Mihawk would know that with black Yoru he is > Shanks even with two arms, given he could equal two-armed Shanks without Yoru.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 9, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> No need to say they can't settle things due to one arm, as Mihawk would know that with black Yoru he is > Shanks even with two arms, given he could equal two-armed Shanks without Yoru.


It's almost like a duel is settled with an actual fight instead of "We used to be equals when I had a weaker sword so now that I have a stronger sword I'm stronger than you"

Mihawk was just simply telling Shanks he doesn't fight cripples. The amount of over analyzing required to make Shanks stronger than Mihawk should really tell you that he simply isn't.


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 9, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> It's almost like a duel is settled with an actual fight instead of "We used to be equals when I had a weaker sword so now that I have a stronger sword I'm stronger than you"
> 
> Mihawk was just simply telling Shanks he doesn't fight cripples. The amount of over analyzing required to make Shanks stronger than Mihawk should really tell you that he simply isn't.


There would be no need to settle anything if you were equal before you had weaker weaponry; the outcome is obvious. It's just that you can't handle that Shanks is the superior swordsman 

Mihawk was actually telling Shanks that he is no longer a swordsman now that he has one arm. 

Also, the only over-analysing is from Mihawk fans. Most people don't take Mihawk's title as word of god or believe that Mihawk beats Shanks.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 9, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> There would be no need to settle anything if you were equal before you had weaker weaponry; the outcome is obvious. It's just that you can't handle that Shanks is the superior swordsman


That's not how duels work. There needs to be a fight with a winner for the duel to be settled. Theoretical shit doesn't count.



Seraphoenix said:


> Also, the only over-analysing is from Mihawk fans. Most people don't take Mihawk's title as word of god or believe that Mihawk beats Shanks.


Ah yes, Mihawk fans with the extreme over analysing "Oda said Mihawk is the WSS so he is stronger than any other swordsman"

Meanwhile Shanks fans with just simple analysis "Ah yes, Shanks the hakiman, shanks actually uses a gun, actually he isn't really a swordsman despite it being explicitly said because xxx, ah no you see Shanks wasn't really trying, he was too young and he grew more since the duels than Mihawk because xxx, ah actually Shanks isn't even a swordsman see if you see the kanji Oda used in this specific interview you can see that he calls him a sword user" etc


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 9, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> That's not how duels work. There needs to be a fight with a winner for the duel to be settled. Theoretical shit doesn't count.


There would be no need for a duel, that's the point. You are deliberately being obtuse because you know you have no case. If Mihawk was equal to Shanks without Yoru, then the logical conclusion is that he is stronger with it. You are the one making up that they have to have a duel to settle it when it is settled via logic.

Moreover, Mihawk objecting to a fight because of the one arm (Because he is a cripple, according to you) means that Mihawk acknowledges that theoretically, there is no fight to be had because he knows he is stronger. Being crippled (And objecting to a fight because of it) is meaningless unless it means either Shanks is weaker and therefore no fight is needed, or he is no longer a swordsman because he is a cripple.

You lose either way.


Strobacaxi said:


> Ah yes, Mihawk fans with the extreme over analysing "Oda said Mihawk is the WSS so he is stronger than any other swordsman"


Eiichiro Oda never said that. That's the problem. You people lack reading comprehension. The author himself has said that he doesn't even want readers to think there is an author.


Strobacaxi said:


> Meanwhile Shanks fans with just simple analysis "Ah yes, Shanks the hakiman, shanks actually uses a gun, actually he isn't really a swordsman despite it being explicitly said because xxx, ah no you see Shanks wasn't really trying, he was too young and he grew more since the duels than Mihawk because xxx, ah actually Shanks isn't even a swordsman see if you see the kanji Oda used in this specific interview you can see that he calls him a sword user" etc


Again, you want to argue within your frame of "Oda said Mihawk is WSS and Shanks is just a swordsman". These hidden premises are easily rejected. Which means your argument isn't as airtight as you would like to believe it is.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 9, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> There would be no need for a duel, that's the point. You are deliberately being obtuse because you know you have no case. If Mihawk was equal to Shanks without Yoru, then the logical conclusion is that he is stronger with it. You are the one making up that they have to have a duel to settle it when it is settled via logic.


How many times do I have to say the same shit? Logic doesn't settle duels LOL Fights settle duels.



Seraphoenix said:


> Moreover, Mihawk objecting to a fight because of the one arm (Because he is a cripple, according to you) means that Mihawk acknowledges that theoretically, there is no fight to be had because he knows he is stronger. Being crippled (And objecting to a fight because of it) is meaningless unless it means either Shanks is weaker and therefore no fight is needed, or he is no longer a swordsman because he is a cripple.


He recognizes that the fight isn't fair which means the duel can't be settled. That's all. Again with the overanalyzing lol



Seraphoenix said:


> Eiichiro Oda never said that. That's the problem. You people lack reading comprehension. The author himself has said that he doesn't even want readers to think there is an author.


Ah of course. "The worlds strongest swordsman" isn't actually the strongest swordsman. Vivre cards, databooks, sbs, interviews, everywhere he ever spoke about Mihawk states that is the strongest swordsman, but no no, he actually isn't. You see *Insert dumb overanalyzing of some incredibly simple thing*



Seraphoenix said:


> Again, you want to argue within your frame of "Oda said Mihawk is WSS and Shanks is just a swordsman". These hidden premises are easily rejected. Which means your argument isn't as airtight as you would like to believe it is.


None of these premises are easily rejected. Oda flat out said both of those things, both in and out of universe.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 9, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> That's not Oda. That's the narrator or in-verse perception.* Oda has said he doesn't want the readers to even know an author exists*. So he isn't giving out word of god statements.


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## Eliyua23 (Nov 9, 2022)

1. Saying he’s stronger than even Red Hair Shanks implies it’s Shanks with whom his hype is compared to

2. Why didn’t he just say Mihawk was stronger than Shanks overall , instead of saying a stronger swordsmen

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mystic (Nov 9, 2022)

Eliyua23 said:


> 2. Why didn’t he just say Mihawk was stronger than Shanks overall , instead of saying a stronger swordsmen


See this one right here keeps getting me. What’s the difference between saying he’s a stronger swordsman and saying he’s the stronger fighter? If Oda said Mihawk is a stronger swordsman than Zoro would that not make him scale above Zoro because of his status as a swordsman or would you make the same argument and say “nah he didn’t say _overall _tho”.


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## Eliyua23 (Nov 9, 2022)

Mystic said:


> See this one right here keeps getting me. What’s the difference between saying he’s a stronger swordsman and saying he’s the stronger fighter? If Oda said Mihawk is a stronger swordsman than Zoro would that not make him scale above Zoro because of his status as a swordsman or would you make the same argument and say “nah he didn’t say _overall _tho”.


There is a difference because saying swordsmen implies he’s better in a specific field , saying stronger overall implies he’s just the flat out better fighter there is no ambiguity, and I would find it weird because no one talks like that people just say Mihawk is stronger than Zoro and could defeat him in combat .


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## Mystic (Nov 9, 2022)

Eliyua23 said:


> There is a difference because saying swordsmen implies he’s better in a specific field , saying stronger overall implies he’s just the flat out better fighter there is no ambiguity, and I would find it weird because no one talks like that people just say Mihawk is stronger than Zoro and could defeat him in combat.


Again this brings me back to the question on if Oda said Mihawk was a stronger swordsman than Zoro, how would you interpret that statement and what it means? Would you say he isn’t the stronger fighter because he didn’t say the word overall or would you scale him above by virtue of Zoro’s status a ‘master swordsman’ and him fighting with swordsmanship and what not?


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## Eliyua23 (Nov 9, 2022)

Mystic said:


> Again this brings me back to the question on if Oda said Mihawk was a stronger swordsman than Zoro, how would you interpret that statement and what it means? Would you say he isn’t the stronger fighter because he didn’t say the word overall or would you scale him above by virtue of Zoro’s status a ‘master swordsman’ and him fighting with swordsmanship and what not?


If this was a manga about swordsmen I would say yeah that means Mihawk is flat out stronger , but that isn’t the case Zoro isn’t just fighting swordsmen or himself just simply relying on swordsmen skills the question is if they are saying Zoro is just a swordsmen why wouldn’t they just flat out say Mihawk is stronger and leave it at that


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## Sablés (Nov 9, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Nope. We've been told he is a Yonko


So is Buggy.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> and have been purposefully left in the dark as to his fighting style. We barely even saw him fight in the manga. We've seen far more of Mihawk's style.


No, we haven't. We actually have _no idea _how Mihawk fights. Meanwhile, Shanks is always shown using his sword and is called a great swordsmaster.



> and his title as the WSS leaves far less ambiguity.


Yes. WSS means strongest of a group that includes Shanks.



Aegon Targaryen said:


> If that happens, sure, I can accept there's more to Mihawk than what meets the eye. I even said I can accept Mihawk > Shanks and that it's possible. I just really doubt it for the reasons I have already shared.


In other words, you also have zero reason to believe that Shanks has better haki than Mihawk, since we haven't seen how Mihawk uses haki or anything of the sort. Therefore, you should also have no reason to doubt Mihawk currently has more going for him than Shanks.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> They're wrong, but they're on to something in that Mihawk has barely ever shown Haki in action in a clear cut way.


See the above.
How do you not realize you're undermining yourself with this? Do I really have to point out the hole you dug for yourself?

Reactions: Like 1 | Lewd 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 9, 2022)

What do you disagree with?

1) Fresh MF Whitebeard > Injured MF Whitebeard > MF Akainu
2) MF Akainu > Vista & Marco (duo) > Vista
3) Big Mom > MF Akainu or at least > Vista & Marco (duo)
4) Shanks is at worst comparable to Injured MF WB or Big Mom (if we downplay Shanks)
5) Mihawk is comparable to Shanks and wasn't interested in fighting the 1-handed man
6) No matter what way you slice it, Mihawk is at worst > Vista & Marco (duo) > Vista

... and I am being generous to Vista, Marco, Akainu, and to some extent even Whitebeard.




Ezekjuninor said:


> WB deteriorated greatly but was still known as the WSM and ruler of the sea.


Whitebeard after Roger's death would also be known as the WSM.

My point is he significantly deteriorated by the time of MF and was even deteriorating during the fight as Marco pointed out. What was once WSM doesn't necessarily hold up (in an absolute sense, at least) given the degree of his condition.

Whitebeard even alludes to it here:


This isn't a problem since the WSM title is merely a shared opinion based on reputation. It's fairly accurate, in that Whitebeard (even in his old age) is among the strongest of men (and may well have been the strongest for all we knew _at the time_), but it's not an iron-clad rule.



> Yes, are you implying that being damaged by MF Akainu is a bad thing?


No, but would Shanks have taken damage like that?

MF Akainu is about as strong as Aokiji and that's despite having a type advantage. Kizaru is likely on their level as well. Kizaru was stalemated by an old and out-of-shape Rayleigh. The likes of Shanks and Mihawk are likely stronger than Rayleigh.

It's worth keeping in mind that Whitebeard's body greatly deteriorated and he had sustained damage from earlier, for example from a heart attack. It's not then unbelievable that Shanks wouldn't have had half his face removed.



> We don't know how Shanks dealt with Kaidou, without any information on what happened it isn't particularly impressive.


True, but Kaido placed Shanks in the same elite class of pirates that could fight him such as Roger, Prime Whitebeard, Xebec, and that was likely based on that one encounter they had.

Consider how likely it is that Shanks could have simply had a nice chat with Kaido and Kaido would subsequently agree to leave. Even with Whitebeard who is somewhat friendly with Shanks, they couldn't avoid a clash. Kaido is even worse and prepared his entire army specifically to fight the Whitebeard pirates.



> 2 things that WB already did. Shanks being prepared to fight MF after their forces were weakened and having the remnants of the WB pirates to back him up is not as impressive as WB taking on MF with just his crew.


Though WB did not ward off Kaido. Shanks challenged Blackbeard too. WB had help from Luffy's company.

Either way, like Whitebeard, Shanks challenged the majority of what comprises the Navy's power: Sengoku, Garp, 3 Admirals, Warlords. Befitting of an Emperor.



> How do we know Luffy hasn't surpassed him already?


We don't, but how likely is it that he has?

Keep in mind that Zoro hasn't surpassed Mihawk yet.
Blackbeard is someone for Luffy to surpass. Blackbeard is hinted to fight Shanks one day.



> When he had both arms, also, Mihawk and Shanks are both weaker than WB.


Dunno about that. Shanks clashed equally with a fresh WB on IVs despite only having 1 arm. And earlier I called WB's title cementing absolute superiority into question.



> This was impressive but still doesn't show how a fight between the two of them would go.


It doesn't need to. Shanks would kick his ass.



> Also, movie is non-canon


Do you truly believe that canon Shanks won't live up to (or possibly even beyond) that?

We know from Marineford and Wano that Yonko are pretty much on another level compared to Admirals. By feats and portrayal, Shanks is likely among the strongest of Yonko.

Both the movie and the manga give people an idea of how strong Shanks is supposed to be. If Oda makes Shanks weaker in the manga, it would be quite awkward. Oda has plenty of room to play with Shanks' power level. It's unlikely that he'd make him weaker than in the movie, at least.



> Shanks being placed next to WB isn't evidence that Shanks is stronger than WB.


He was placed next to Prime Whitebeard.

Is Shanks being stronger than old WB who is prone to heart attack really so unbelievable?



> None of this proves that Shanks is stronger than WB who was officially known as the World's Strongest Man. To discredit that title you would need strong evidence such as Shanks defeating someone who WB couldn't, Shanks displaying that he was stronger than WB, or a statement which puts Shanks ahead of Old WB at least. Shanks blocking an attack by Akainu or being a rival to Mihawk isn't proof of this.


I'm not discrediting the title, but rather explaining my viewpoint that these titles aren't absolute rules.

Whitebeard was meant to be seen as the strongest pirate, the world's strongest man... is the claim that people make, while ignoring that Crocodile called him a weakling, Marco was worried that his health was deteriorating constantly and anticipated that he'd have a heart attack, Akainu said even Whitebeard couldn't escape old age, and even Whitebeard himself implicitly acknowledged Crocodile's statement. Some even argue that Kaido is stronger, even though they are both men.


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## olorun (Nov 9, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Every warlord stagnated since they weren't active fighting strong people again
> They also lost their ambitions or will in a way
> 
> Shanks grew more than Mihawk did in these 12 years :
> ...


The idea that every warlord stagnated is incredibly dumb given that doflamingo/mihawk/crocodile were literally fighting people all throughout one piece. The warlord title only makes it so you're immune from the government. Other pirates don't give a damn. I guess Blackbeard stagnated as well after beating Ace you're like the dumbest individual in this entire website


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## olorun (Nov 9, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> I forgot
> 
> Kaido respects Shanks but considers every warlord worthless
> BM hypes Yonko as her challenge while doesn't bother hyping any warlord.
> ...


Brannew and oda state that mihawk is the strongest swordsman. Everyone agrees that mihawk is the strongest swordsman besides people like you
Room temperature iq, that thinks shanks is the stronger swordsman.


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## olorun (Nov 9, 2022)

Eliyua23 said:


> 1. Saying he’s stronger than even Red Hair Shanks implies it’s Shanks with whom his hype is compared to
> 
> 2. Why didn’t he just say Mihawk was stronger than Shanks overall , instead of saying a stronger swordsmen


1)is this not just a rivalry hence oda keeps comparing each other??

2) he did say mihawk is the stronger swordsman. In the exact same panel he made a distinction between strength and skill and said mihawk was better at both no??


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 9, 2022)

Mihawk fanboys are going ape mode like those baboons that worships hawkboy 

Shanks has all portrayal and feats against hawkboy 

if I had to be honest, Shanks literally be making Top tiers actually dodge while Mihawk clash with high/low tiers and stalemating them

Reactions: Like 1


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## olorun (Nov 9, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Mihawk fanboys are going ape mode like those baboons that worships hawkboy
> 
> Shanks has all portrayal and feats against hawkboy
> 
> if I had to be honest, Shanks literally be making Top tiers actually dodge while Mihawk clash with high/low tiers and stalemating them


It's incredible that I'm both a shanks and mihawk fan and I can still see unbiased reason


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## ShWanks (Nov 9, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> =
> 
> "*you're* reading comprehension".
> 
> Your analogy isn't changing mihawk>Lhanks


Typo...

Shanks > replaced warlord...


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## ShWanks (Nov 9, 2022)

olorun said:


> I'm not sure if he's pretending to be like this. Or if he's actually like this...


As the good book quotes 
Proverbs 24:7
[7]Wisdom is too high for a fool: he openeth not his mouth in the gate.


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## verified (Nov 9, 2022)

Mihawk being the strongest swordsman by default puts him above Shanks

How is this even a discussion? I'm genuinely confused as to how your mental processes could lead you to interpreting that as Shanks being above Mihawk despite all evidence pointing to the contrary

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 9, 2022)

Sablés said:


> So is Buggy



If you wanna go that way, I could call Mihawk a fraud too  



Sablés said:


> No, we haven't. We actually have _no idea _how Mihawk fights. Meanwhile, Shanks is always shown using his sword and is called a great swordsmaster.



More than we do for Shanks. Mihawk faced Vista and Zoro on-panel and was shown trying to kill Luffy. Shanks only has a single (and mutual) clash with Whitebeard who >>> any of those people.



Sablés said:


> Yes. WSS means strongest of a group that includes Shanks



Only when it comes to what that group is most known for - swordsmanship, not total combat power.



Sablés said:


> In other words, you also have zero reason to believe that Shanks has better haki than Mihawk, since we haven't seen how Mihawk uses haki or anything of the sort. Therefore, you should also have no reason to doubt Mihawk currently has more going for him than Shanks



I have every reason to believe it when Shanks's Haki has far more hype and feats than Mihawk's ever did  



Sablés said:


> See the above.
> How do you not realize you're undermining yourself with this? Do I really have to point out the hole you dug for yourself?



What hole have I dug for myself by just pointing out that Mihawk hasn't done much with his Haki compared to Shanks (even though we've seen Mihawk in action more often)?


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## Mystic (Nov 10, 2022)

BroIy said:


> Mihawk being the strongest swordsman by default puts him above Shanks
> 
> How is this even a discussion? I'm genuinely confused as to how your mental processes could lead you to interpreting that as Shanks being above Mihawk despite all evidence pointing to the contrary


Significant Shanks bias? Even if Mihawk lets say defeated an Admiral for example or even clashed with Shanks himself they’d still doubt it because there’s this idea that he’s this Roger esc wannabe that should be as powerful as him. They think he’s more than he is (like people think he’ll perform Haki Susanno’s or Kamehameha blasts, like that’s literally a thing). Instead of being a very strong sword master/master swordsman with powerful haki like he’s stated over and over to be.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 10, 2022)

Mihawk’s title means that he can defeat any swordsman in a 1v1 fight. However I will concede that Oda has done a poor job showing us this.

Reactions: Winner 4 | Friendly 1


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## Mystic (Nov 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Mihawk’s title means that he can defeat any swordsman in a 1v1 fight. However I will concede that Oda has done a poor job showing us this.


Agreed, CG gives Oda one more chance to show us something before his fight with Zoro.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 10, 2022)

Mystic said:


> Agreed, CG gives Oda one more chance to show us something before his fight with Zoro.



true hopefully CG pays off 

though in Mihawk’s defence, he’s not the only top tier who was out here looking terrible lol 

big mom wasn’t looking that great before her fight with kidd and law imo. Dragon looks awful

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JoNdule (Nov 11, 2022)

Mystic said:


> Question really and this is for everyone else in the thread @Aegon Targaryen , what is the difference between saying he surpasses Shanks swordsmanship and saying he surpasses him as a fighter because that’s his style. If Oda said Mihawk was above Zoros swordsmanship wouldn’t u scale him directly above because he uses his swordsmanship as a swordsman to fight his battles. Why is it different for Shanks? Is he not also a swordsman too? Explain to me?
> 
> Seriously what do you think “swordsmanship” is? If I’m not mistaken it is a literal_ battle/combat art or a style of fighting._
> 
> Also again the WG still didn’t give Buggy the higher bounty despite them doing it for literally every other Yonko and captain in canon. So do they really think Buggy is above him, particularly in power?


Having better x skills =/= being better /stronger overall



A Optimistic said:


> true hopefully CG pays off
> 
> though in Mihawk’s defence, he’s not the only top tier who was out here looking terrible lol
> 
> big mom wasn’t looking that great before her fight with kidd and law imo. Dragon looks awful


BM already showed superiority over high tiers in wci while being nerfed at WCI or pre kid/Law fight .
BM bad feats are usually when she's nerfed.
She has more good feats than nerfed feats! 

Mihawk wasnt nerfed (not mentally nor physically), he simply sucks 
He has bad feats as his only onscreen feats

Reactions: Neutral 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> He has bad feats as his only onscreen feats


Mihawk holds back most of his power and is the first person to make luffy get scared and run away instead of attack.

Keep crying goober


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 11, 2022)

Mihawk doesn't suck. 

He's just weaker than Shanks. And he may not be much weaker.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Mihawk doesn't suck.
> 
> He's just weaker than Shanks. And he may not be much weaker.



You never believed lies like this. Who tricked you into believing this nonsense. 



I'll take them out myself

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 11, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> You never believed lies like this. Who tricked you into believing this nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll take them out myself



No need

Reactions: Informative 1


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## JoNdule (Nov 11, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Mihawk holds back most of his power and is the first person to make luffy get scared and run away instead of attack.
> 
> Keep crying goober


"Made luffy run" 
Amazing feat there. He made pre ts luffy run
Something magellan did.

Sickbeard was beating Ace casually while asleep
Base Kaido easily beat 9 Retainers after toying with them. Oneshotted Luffy at Kuri.
Nerfed Linlin trashed Queen,...
Stop giving excuses why Mihawk sucks

He had no trouble flexing on Daz and okama by KOing them straight to show superiority after he was attacked or blocked.
He couldn't do it against Vista & Croco coz he knows he can't 1-2 shot them not beat them easily

This whole notion "mihawk can no diff YCs" "mihawk can do what yonko and admirals can" is headcanon , wishes.

Even casual Katakuri was trashing Luffy, Ichiji at tea party . Trashed g2/g3 by trolling luffy.
Spare me the excuses "Mihawk holds back" agreements

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ludi (Nov 11, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Mihawk doesn't suck.
> 
> He's just weaker than Shanks. And he may not be much weaker.



This approach doesn't really work I think, they are either not directly scalable to eachother currently and either could be stronger for now OR Mihawk>Shanks if Shanks ends up being a haki-using swordman like Zoro and not a fighter who "isnt just a swordsman like zoro but also.."


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Sickbeard was beating Ace casually while asleep
> Base Kaido easily beat 9 Retainers after toying with them. Oneshotted Luffy at Kuri.
> Nerfed Linlin trashed Queen,...
> Stop giving excuses why Mihawk sucks
> ...


Mihawk was able to defeat multiple units while holding back.
Sickbeard fighting ace is the same as mihawk destroyed zoro with a small as sword.

Mihawk clashed with vista and croco while holding back, if you're implying that mihawk is weaker than them. You understand shanks would also be weaker than vista & croco. Another valid point is how vista himself acknowledged that mihawk was the strongest swordsman, while he was trying his best. Mihawk was focusing on a different character which was luffy. So instead of making these shitty assumptions. So please open your eyes and realize the truth instead of running away from it, you antimihawk.

When he fought daz and okama they were hit by attacks, when he was fighting croco and vista they clashed. There is a difference.
It's not that he knows he can't, it's that he chooses not to. He has no reason to go full power, he explained this to zoro.

Ycs would get no diffed, mihawk can also do what shanks can do since hes a yonko.


This is mihawks own words that he holds back against weaklings.


If vista and croco will give mihawk a mid-high diff fight(based on clashes and not an actual fight) then it's the same for shanks but this time he get's it extreme diff.


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## olorun (Nov 11, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Having better x skills =/= being better /stronger overall
> 
> 
> BM already showed superiority over high tiers in wci while being nerfed at WCI or pre kid/Law fight .
> ...


Except. He is the strongest swordsman...


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## Soldierofficial (Nov 11, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> "Made luffy run"
> Amazing feat there. He made pre ts luffy run
> Something magellan did.
> 
> ...



Jozu and Vista are stronger than all those characters so what's your point?  

WSS Mihawk > Shanks according to feats and portrayal.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Creative 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

Soldierofficial said:


> Jozu and Vista are stronger than all those characters so what's your point?
> 
> WSS Mihawk > Shanks according to feats and portrayal.


Mfs see a couple of conquerors blast and claim the one armed bandit is stronger than the WSS

Reactions: Agree 3


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## JoNdule (Nov 11, 2022)

Soldierofficial said:


> Jozu and Vista are stronger than all those characters so what's your point?
> 
> WSS Mihawk > Shanks according to feats and portrayal.


Yeah 
Jozu/vista > FS Luffy / 9 retainers  / Queen 

When casual doffy > Jozu


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## JoNdule (Nov 11, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Mihawk was able to defeat multiple units while holding back.
> Sickbeard fighting ace is the same as mihawk destroyed zoro with a small as sword.
> 
> Instead of being this delusional and trying to come up with any excuse you can find from digging in your ass cheeks how about you realize.
> ...


Cope more

Troll


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Cope more
> 
> Troll





JoNdule said:


> Cope more
> 
> Troll


You're a full fledged anti mihawk lost cause


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## Wh1p (Nov 11, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 12, 2022)

@Unresponsive Funny this logic works for Roger but not for Shanks 




Unresponsive said:


> It's possible that gol d roger, was more of a stronger swordsman who relied on his strength and proficiency in haki. Rather than people like zoro and mihawk who specialize in haki and swordsmanship. Or simply mihawk is the better swordsman but the weaker fighter.



Hate to be petty, but this is something I found while randomly looking for funny posts


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## Unresponsive (Nov 12, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @Unresponsive Funny this logic works for Roger but not for Shanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Delete that I don't think I can come up with an excuse for that one

No but I changed my ways, that was before but not anymore.   Roger has a better title so he gets an excuse, shanks doesn't.



*Spoiler*: _For all you shankboys_ 



The last part was a joke, don't come after me because I don't support your wank

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Unresponsive (Nov 12, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @Unresponsive Funny this logic works for Roger but not for Shanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why isn't it delete, my reputation is at stake!

What do you want from me, is it money, rep, popularity, or manga. I'LL DO ANYTHING JUST DELETE IT


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