# Guts (Berserk) vs Dark Souls bosses



## Majinsaga (Apr 22, 2013)

How would Guts fare against all the bosses of Dark Souls?



Gauntlet style

All at once

Also how would Skull Knight fare against the bosses of Dark Souls?




*vs*











**Mini bosses included.*


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## Saitomaru (Apr 22, 2013)

Just the bosses shown?


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## Majinsaga (Apr 22, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> Just the bosses shown?



No. The entire series of bosses including the ones in the DLC. Just can't find to many good pictures of a reasonable size (either too small or too fucking big) and am too lazy to edit their sizes.


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## familyparka (Apr 22, 2013)

+rep for making a thread this awesome.

You may continute


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## Zombehs (Apr 23, 2013)

Guts should have no issues clearing through almost every boss I imagine. I'm almost certain he outclasses the CU in every way imaginable, given the fact that even at higher levels, the CU can still get stun locked and beaten to death by friggen Hollows if you aren't careful.


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

Ceaseless Discharge.

Yeah, Gutts aint getting far.


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## CheesyFreak (Apr 23, 2013)

ugh, why didnt i think of this(nice thread btw!)
i think guts gets to ceaseless discharge as said above, from up there it gets insanely difficult for guts.


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

He's not getting past Queelaag bro.


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## Atem (Apr 23, 2013)

Quelaag?

Pfft, if Guts doesn't get the darksign here he's going to have trouble getting past the Hellkite Dragon let alone Quelaag. If he charges up front to get to the Altar of Sunlight he's going to get a face full of fire. If he's smart enough to go under the bridge maybe he would make it to Blighttown. 

If he tries to find a way around it he's going to have to deal with HAVEL THE ROCK. Then there's the Hydra near the Darkwood Basin. 

Yeah, this is not going to be easy for Guts.


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

Neither Havel or Hellkite are bosses.


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## Atem (Apr 23, 2013)

zenieth said:


> Neither Havel or Hellkite are bosses.



Ah, I thought Guts was going through the entire game. My bad.


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## Zhen Chan (Apr 23, 2013)

Gutts lacks the magic to take out lake hydra


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

Hydra's not a boss.


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## Saitomaru (Apr 23, 2013)

zenieth said:


> Neither Havel or *Hellkite* are bosses.





zenieth said:


> Hydra's not a boss.



Doesn't matter since the OP clearly shows both the Hellkite and the Hydra.


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

In the skull knight scenario.

Reading comprehension is a must.


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## Saitomaru (Apr 23, 2013)

zenieth said:


> In the skull knight scenario.
> 
> Reading comprehension is a must.



Actually, if you want to bring that into this I guess that means Skull knight is fighting itself.

OP also said this:



> No. The entire series of bosses including the ones in the DLC. *Just can't find to many good pictures of a reasonable size* (either too small or too fucking big) and am too lazy to edit their sizes.


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

That still doesn't include the not bosses, cause you know, there are pictures of bosses here with the not bosses. Stop being obstinate because you're wrong.


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## Saitomaru (Apr 23, 2013)

zenieth said:


> That still doesn't include the not bosses, cause you know, there are pictures of bosses here with the not bosses. Stop being obstinate because you're wrong.



How does that not include the Hydra and the Hellkite? They're clearly shown in the OP. How about you just stop being dense as fuck.


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

Because the person asks if Gutts is fighting all the bosses or just the ones shown.

The ones shown are Gaping, Iron Golem and Taurus Demon. Just because Hydra and Hellkite are in the list doesn't mean they're Bosses. And again, they're in Skull Knight's scenario

And Skull Knight's scenario doesn't indicate he's only fighting Bosses either.


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## Caxe7 (Apr 23, 2013)

seath rapes



Zombehs said:


> Guts should have no issues clearing through almost every boss I imagine. I'm almost certain he outclasses the CU in every way imaginable, given the fact that even at higher levels, the CU can still get stun locked and beaten to death by friggen Hollows if you aren't careful.



lol.....that isn't possible at high levels because even getting that high implies you would never let that happen, careful or not, seriously, I couldn't see it happening even if I boosted a character to end game levels and handed the controllers to a 6 year ol


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## Saitomaru (Apr 23, 2013)

zenieth said:


> Because the person asks if Gutts is fighting all the bosses or just the ones shown.
> 
> The ones shown are Gaping, Iron Golem and Taurus Demon. Just because Hydra and Hellkite are in the list doesn't mean they're Bosses. And again, they're in Skull Knight's scenario
> 
> And Skull Knight's scenario doesn't indicate he's only fighting Bosses either.



Hellkite and Hydra are considered mini bosses and could therefore be lumped together under the term bosses. And going by your interpretation of the OP Skull knight is fighting himself. If you really want to clear this up stop wasting your time arguing with me over something neither of us can prove on our own and just ask the OP directly.

Edit: 



> Guts should have no issues clearing through almost every boss I imagine. I'm almost certain he outclasses the CU in every way imaginable, given the fact that even at higher levels, the CU can still get stun locked and beaten to death by friggen Hollows if you aren't careful.



I too disagree with this as well. The only way you're getting stunlocked by reg hollows is if you take of all poise giving items and just stand there. And even then you should still be able to kill them long before the take off even a tenth of your health. I have a level 564 character and I HAVE let a complete noob play with that character. Although he did a lot of stupid damage, he was never actually killed by an non-boss enemy.


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> Hellkite and Hydra are considered mini bosses and could therefore be lumped together under the term bosses. And going by your interpretation of the OP Skull knight is fighting himself. If you really want to clear this up stop wasting your time arguing with me over something neither of us can prove on our own and just ask the OP directly.



You're the one who brought this up trying to prove me wrong. There's nothing referring to Hydra and Hellkite as bosses of any kind. And your whole point hinges on an error on the OP's part.

We know who bosses are, we know what makes a boss. Hellkite and Hydra are not bosses.

Don't say not to waste my time when you bring the issue up yourself, if you're just going to backpedal.


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

And You know how I'm right until OP clarifies?

Because we have a precedent. It's call Occam's Razor.


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## Saitomaru (Apr 23, 2013)

zenieth said:


> You're the one who brought this up trying to prove me wrong. There's nothing referring to Hydra and Hellkite as bosses of any kind. And your whole point hinges on an error on the OP's part.
> 
> Don't say not to waste my time when you bring the issue up yourself, if you're just going to backpedal.



You tried to act as though mini bosses (that are clearly shown in the OP) are excluded because they aren't true bosses. You claimed that them being shown was just for the Skull knight scenario, which if what you're saying is true (the pictures are just used to show who Skull knight is fighting) that would mean that SK's fighting itself. You're wasting your time. 



> We know who bosses are, we know what makes a boss. Hellkite and Hydra are not bosses.



And just to reiterate (because you like to gloss over things I say) Hellkite and Hydra are mini bosses.



> And You know how I'm right until OP clarifies?
> 
> Because we have a precedent. It's call Occam's Razor.



And how does Occam's Razor prove your claim that Skull knight fights those shown (including itself)?


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> You tried to act as though mini bosses (that are clearly shown in the OP) are excluded because they aren't true bosses. You claimed that them being shown was just for the Skull knight scenario, which if what you're saying is true (the pictures are just used to show who Skull knight is fighting) that would mean that SK's fighting itself. You're wasting your time.



Unless you can't read, I don't see why they would be included when their images weren't added until the skull knight scenario was brought up. If he's fighting himself, that's a problem on the OP's part, that doesn't completely rewrite the OP's post to have them listed as Gutts' foes.





> And just to reiterate (because you like to gloss over things I say) Hellkite and Hydra are mini bosses.



Because you say so?

Aint nothing in DkS media refers to them as bosses or otherwise. They can be seen as special enemies since they're unique and one of a kind (or two in Hydra's case). But that doesn't make them Minibosses. 



> And how does Occam's Razor prove your claim that Skull knight fights those shown (including itself)?



Occam's razor proves that Only bosses are bosses. It has nothing to do with who Skull Knight does or doesn't fight in his scenario.


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## Majinsaga (Apr 23, 2013)

Updated the op.

Guts vs all bosses of Dark Souls including the mini bosses.

And the second scenario was how would Skull Knight do against the bosses and mini bosses.


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

Welp, The World informed me, Hydra's called a miniboss in the guide (who the fuck reads a guide for Dark Souls?). So I guess I'll yield that.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 23, 2013)

.  Gats isn't   .  The Chosen Undead is well out of his league as well.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 23, 2013)

Will say I like the thread idea, just a damn shame the quantified feats for Dark/Demon's Souls shit on Berserk sans the god hand and that giant asshole (forget his name)


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## Majinsaga (Apr 23, 2013)

zenieth said:


> Welp, The World informed me, Hydra's called a miniboss in the guide (*who the fuck reads a guide for Dark Souls?). *So I guess I'll yield that.



Well during it's first week release, gamestops were selling out of Dark Souls guides everywhere. And were being sold on ebat for $40-50.


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

Again. Who would read a guide for it? That defeats the purpose of the game.


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

Noticed i didn't comment on your gwyn calc, Chaos.

That's not Prime Gwyn.

That's Gwyn after he gave his soul to everyone else.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 23, 2013)

Well, true, yeah.

Still has powerscaling from the witches regardless.

Anyway, now to slink off back to class and then to more end of semester classwork...


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## Saitomaru (Apr 23, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 





zenieth said:


> Unless you can't read, I don't see why they would be included when their images weren't added until the skull knight scenario was brought up. If he's fighting himself, that's a problem on the OP's part, that doesn't completely rewrite the OP's post to have them listed as Gutts' foes.



I wasn't referring to the guts situation. I've been referring to the Skull knight situation ever since you basically implied that Skull knight fights itself.



> Because you say so? Aint nothing in DkS media refers to them as bosses or otherwise. They can be seen as special enemies since they're unique and one of a kind (or two in Hydra's case). But that doesn't make them Minibosses.



Forgive me for agreeing with every Dark souls related site and basic game logic. I guess the fact that non-respawning, extra powerful, and unique (barring hydra and certain others) enemies are usually considered mini bosses doesn't matter. I won't bring up the wiki's because they aren't really canon.



> Occam's razor proves that Only bosses are bosses. It has nothing to do with who Skull Knight does or doesn't fight in his scenario.



Occam's razor doesn't prove that only bosses are bosses. Common sense does. And as I said, I'm talking about the SK scenario where he fights himself. Occam's razor proves that SK fights himself. 




Since that was clarified and I was correct (excluding the sarcasm) there is no need for all that text.


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

being correct retroactively doesn't make you right in the moment.

Also don't use Occam's razor if you don't know what it means. Which by the way you reference it, shows you clearly don't.


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## Saitomaru (Apr 23, 2013)

zenieth said:


> being correct retroactively doesn't make you right in the moment.



I was right, get over it.



> Also don't use Occam's razor if you don't know what it means. Which by the way you reference it, shows you clearly don't.



That's the second time someone has said I don't know what Occam's razor means just to be wrong. What is with you guys and assuming you have any idea what I do and don't know? I'll even post the definition for you: 



> Occam's razor: ...It states that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected.



I figured a Wikipedia definition should be good enough for you. Your 'hypothesis' assumed that the OP was wrong. My 'hypothesis' didn't make any assumptions and just went with what the OP showed. Meaning SK fights himself. For future reference, don't presume to know what I have knowledge of.


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> I was right, get over it.



When new info was made available to switch the neutrality of the argument. Unless you somehow knew what Maijin was thinking.



> That's the second time someone has said I don't know what Occam's razor means just to be wrong. What is with you guys and assuming you have any idea what I do and don't know? I'll even post the definition for you:



Maybe you shouldn't use it incorrectly then... separating it from common sense.




> I figured a Wikipedia definition should be good enough for you. Your 'hypothesis' assumed that the OP was wrong.



My 'Hypothesis' assumed nothing of the sort, I merely took the initial Op as literal as per what was and weren't bosses. I noted that there was the possibility of there being an error in the Op's statement, but didn't hinge on it.



> My 'hypothesis' didn't make any assumptions and just went with what the OP showed. Meaning SK fights himself. For future reference, don't presume to know what I have knowledge of.



You did assume. Your assumption was that he meant all of the creatures listed in Skull Knights scenario applied to Gutts' own as well. What is that if not assumption? Hell how can you hypothesize without assumptions? And if you assumed that SK was fighting himself, why query me on my point? Stop changing your argument to make you look right.


And even then... you completely misunderstood what I was using Occam's razor to refer to.


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## Saitomaru (Apr 23, 2013)

zenieth said:


> When new info was made available to switch the neutrality of the argument.



I was right, get over it.



> Maybe you shouldn't use it incorrectly then... separating it from common sense.



I didn't use it incorrectly.



> My 'Hypothesis' assumed nothing of the sort, I merely took the initial Op as literal as per what was and weren't bosses. I noted that there was the possibility of there being an error in the Op's statement, but didn't hinge on it.



You assumed he made an error. I didn't.



> You did assume. Your assumption was that he meant all of the creatures listed in Skull Knights scenario applied to Gutts' own as well. What is that if not assumption? Hell how can you hypothesize without assumptions? And if you assumed that SK was fighting himself, why query me on my point? Stop changing your argument to make you look right.



I'm not changing my argument. I stopped referring to the Guts scenario shortly after I realized that I couldn't prove my side without the OP's clarification. I kept questioning you because I found it funny and because you kept avoiding the question.



> And even then... you completely misunderstood what I was using Occam's razor to refer to.



Sure I did...

The fact of the matter is we now have clarification, no further discussion is necessary. I'll admit I was being petty when I pointed out I was correct, but I never said I wasn't petty. If you want to continue this pm/vm me, otherwise stop continuing this thread derailment.


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## zenieth (Apr 23, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> I was right, get over it.



A debate isn't won based off of the truth of your point being proven, but of your own ability to prove it. You did no such thing.





> I didn't use it incorrectly.



By separating it from common sense you sure as hell did.




> You assumed he made an error. I didn't.



I assumed it was a possibility, you acted like it was outright.




> I'm not changing my argument. I stopped referring to the Guts scenario shortly after I realized that I couldn't prove my side without the OP's clarification.



he you're saying you pointlessly prattled on long after you had known your side had no substance, because you made no indication that your argument had switched to another topic of interest.



> I kept questioning you because I found it funny and because you kept avoiding the question.



Why should I answer a question that has no pertinent relevance to the argument? And I did answer it, noting it doesn't matter who he fights since it has no bearing on who Gutts is fighting.



> Sure I did...



And yet you reference who Skull Knight is fighting when my Occam's razor reference was in regards to who Gutts was fighting based off of what had the least assumptions (note bosses being bosses.)



> The fact of the matter is we now have clarification, no further discussion is necessary. I'll admit I was being petty when I pointed out I was correct, but I never said I wasn't petty. If you want to continue this pm/vm me, otherwise stop continuing this thread derailment.



Thread was answered long before you addressed me. I feel perfectly content to continue this as its run its course in that regard.


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## Saitomaru (Apr 23, 2013)

zenieth said:


> A debate isn't won based off of the truth of your point being proven, but of your own ability to prove it. You did no such thing.



I couldn't care less about your definition of a win. I was right.



> By separating it from common sense you sure as hell did.



Nope.



> I assumed it was a possibility, you acted like it was outright.



I made no such assumption, I acted as though the OP meant what he put. Which meant that SK fought himself.



> he you're saying you pointlessly prattled on long after you had known your side had no substance, because you made no indication that your argument had switched to another topic of interest.



I didn't continue with that point. You assumed I was still talking about the first scenario. My shift in focus was kinda obvious.



> Why should I answer a question that has no pertinent relevance to the argument? And I did answer it, noting it doesn't matter who he fights since it has no bearing on who Gutts is fighting.



That's not answering the question, that's you giving a reason NOT to answer the question.



> And yet you reference who Skull Knight is fighting when my Occam's razor reference was in regards to who Gutts was fighting based off of what had the least assumptions (note bosses being bosses.)



I already stated that I shifted focus, its your fault that you didn't notice and kept droning on about the first scenario.



> Thread was answered long before you addressed me. I feel perfectly content to continue this as its run its course in that regard.



Then swap to vm/pms. Otherwise I'm just going to reply to your messages with the simplest, relevant thing I can think of right now "I was right, get over it".


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## Qinglong (Apr 23, 2013)

It's not fucking relevant at all, shut up about whether you were retroactively right or not


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## Saitomaru (Apr 23, 2013)

Qinglong said:


> It's not fucking relevant at all, shut up about whether you were retroactively right or not



I already pointed that out. But, since you're here and talking about relevance how about you contribute something relevant. You know, instead of throwing your two cents into something that has nothing to do with you and has already been settled.

Edit: I was referring to it being relevant to the replies I would be getting.


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## Vasto Lorde King (Apr 24, 2013)

Manus, Seath, Gwyndolin, Ceaceless Discharge, Ornstein, Kalameet, Hellkite dragon and even Presilla should take this.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 24, 2013)

priscilla should especially take it considering her lifehunt ability was a threat even to the gods.


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## Vasto Lorde King (Apr 24, 2013)

Shoddragon said:


> priscilla should especially take it considering her lifehunt ability was a threat even to the gods.



I agree. however her physical stats aren't much better then a asylum demon imo. She just walks around and swings her scythe. Hence I believe it would be a bit of struggle.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 24, 2013)

Tensa IchiGetsu said:


> I agree. however her physical stats aren't much better then a asylum demon imo. She just walks around and swings her scythe. Hence I believe it would be a bit of struggle.




that's more gameplay mechanics. fact of the matter is that her lifehunt scythe can bleed away the life of even gods which is why she was locked in the painted world in the first place. her ability is so powerful only she can use it effectively, if someone like the chosen undead attempts to use it ( aka, using the lifehunt scythe) the ability partially turns back on the user, so it's pretty wicked powerful.


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## Vasto Lorde King (Apr 24, 2013)

Shoddragon said:


> that's more gameplay mechanics. fact of the matter is that her lifehunt scythe can bleed away the life of even gods which is why she was locked in the painted world in the first place. her ability is so powerful only she can use it effectively, if someone like the chosen undead attempts to use it ( aka, using the lifehunt scythe) the ability partially turns back on the user, so it's pretty wicked powerful.



Hmm most likely.  Yeah and I remember reading somewhere that the chosen undead is actually the pygmee. So for that ability to affect you it must be pretty powerfull.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 24, 2013)

Tensa IchiGetsu said:


> Hmm most likely.  Yeah and I remember reading somewhere that the chosen undead is actually the pygmee. So for that ability to affect you it must be pretty powerfull.



helllllllll no. the furtive pygmy existed at the same time that lord gwyn, the witch of izalith and Gravelord Nito found their lord souls.

the chosen undead is NOT the pygmy.

some people think the pygmy might be Manus, Father of the Abyss but I personally think the pygmy died out long ago.


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## zenieth (Apr 24, 2013)

pygmy, human progenitor.


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