# Meliodas vs EoS Natsu



## Blade (Sep 27, 2017)

who wins?

discuss


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## Dr. White (Sep 27, 2017)

Unless natsu got them upgrades from rax to country/continent+ mel wins easily


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## Blade (Sep 27, 2017)

from what i know

lol Natsu is island level+ and has likely  MHS reactions?

none of these ''upgrades'' were accepted


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## Dr. White (Sep 27, 2017)

Blade said:


> from what i know
> 
> lol Natsu is island level+ and has likely  MHS reactions?
> 
> none of these ''upgrades'' were accepted


I don't recall any island+ fairytail calcs just tge small island one but mel is 94 gt , mach 3600 and has regen, better fire, and full counter so GG natsu


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## Blade (Sep 27, 2017)

island level+ from lol Acnologia

too lazy to find that shit bur everyone agreed that it should be the minimum 

unless it is downgraded again


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## bitethedust (Sep 27, 2017)

Never heard anything Acnologia that was island level and considering that the one gigaton level feat FT had was also dismissed on the basis that you couldn't get energy out of it since it was something of a hax... 

Yeah, Natsu gets his face punched in.


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## Blade (Sep 27, 2017)

bitethedust said:


> Never heard anything Acnologia that was island level



it was from his barrage on some islands and shit


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## Mythoclast (Sep 27, 2017)

Mel with no difficulty. .


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## Blade (Sep 27, 2017)

so

here goes

another MAGNIFICENT defeat for the COURAGEOUS main hero of Fail Tail


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## Mythoclast (Sep 27, 2017)

You should use sealed Meliodas if you want this to be a closer match-up..


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## Blade (Sep 27, 2017)

even armless Mel could win

Reactions: Funny 2


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 27, 2017)

Natsu takes this, he scales to Acnologia who is above Etherion

Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Mythoclast (Sep 27, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Natsu takes this, he scales to Acnologia who is above Etherion


That Etherion shit isn't accepted here..


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 27, 2017)

Krash said:


> That Etherion shit isn't accepted here..



Etherion Which can obliterate a country?


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## ho11ow (Sep 27, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Etheri Which can obliterate a country?


Isn't that just hyperbole by magic council?


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## Mythoclast (Sep 27, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Etheri Which can obliterate a country?


Yes.It was discussed and got rejected.
Natsu is city level here, so Mel can oneshot him with a finger flick..


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 27, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> Isn't that just hyperbole by magic council?



No, they wouldn't say that when they fired it before


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## Blαck (Sep 27, 2017)

Blade said:


> even armless Mel could win


Like estarossa would even let Mel concern himself with the likes of such trash


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## IdioticGamer (Sep 28, 2017)

Oh shiiit, a FT battle, I wonder how this one will go?


*Spoiler*: __ 





But pretty much just one Full Counter pretty much lolnopes power of friendship


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## Alita (Sep 28, 2017)

Natsu is city+ level and hypersonic so he loses here.



Dr. White said:


> I don't recall any island+ fairytail calcs just tge small island one but mel is 94 gt , mach 3600 and has regen, better fire, and full counter so GG natsu



Do you have a link to the 94 gigaton calc and mach 3600 calcs? Just would like to see them so I know where it's coming from.


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## shade0180 (Sep 28, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> mach 3600 calcs



@iwandesu Is this the dragon flight Value?  I remember that there is a 4 digit calc for FT just not sure if this is the value. Also if you know who it scales to, can you give a generalized list it would be better.


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## trance (Sep 28, 2017)

doesn't Mel stomp?

also, Full Counter is a p hard counter to most of Natsu's attacks


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 28, 2017)

Fire attacks won't work on Natsu, even his own, Natsu scales to Acnologia which scales above Etherion. And he is MHS+

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## shade0180 (Sep 28, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Etherion.



this shit is pointless here. Now if we are talking about rave's version of Etherion and that's an entirely different matter.


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## Blade (Sep 28, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Like estarossa would even let Mel concern himself with the likes of such trash



Escanor vs Acnologia :soon

Reactions: Funny 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 28, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> this shit is pointless here. Now if we are talking about rave's version of Etherion and that's an entirely different matter.



That too is pointless since it is as credible as is destroying everything in existence which it never did


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## shade0180 (Sep 28, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> That too is pointless since it is as credible as is destroying everything in existence which it never did



 no shit it destroyed tenth of the planet and endless indeed can destroy the whole world it already did. He just don't want another reality to exist, that's literally the reason he was attacking the other reality.. so it wasn't pointless.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 28, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> no shit it destroyed tenth of the planet and endless indeed can destroy the whole world it already did. He just don't want another reality to exist, that's literally the reason he was attacking the other reality.. so it wasn't pointless.



And Etherion destroys an entire country because it fired before. It is not a kind of weapon that would be used regularly, There for it is not pointless either


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## Mythoclast (Sep 28, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> Do you have a link to the 94 gigaton calc and mach 3600 calcs? Just would like to see them so I know where it's coming from.



The mach 3600 calc..


The 94 gigatons value doesn't come from a calc, it comes from Mel and Escanor both tanking a fullcountered Cruel Sun


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## shade0180 (Sep 28, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> And Etherion destroys an entire country because it fired before. It is not a kind of weapon that would be used regularly, There for it is not pointless either



you do know a country is a vague term right it could be as small as Vatican it probably wouldn't even pass as a city in our scaling to something as large as russia.

 so yea that shit is as pointless as it can get for scaling purposes without any legitimate country on the map that it destroyed being showed to us.

just so you know without the arbitrary limits most BD used..

scale to random terms is bullshit..

why?? Russia as a country has twice as much area as Australia which is a continent.

there are islands smaller than mountains

City blocks larger than a city

there are moons that are larger than Mercury

Stars smaller than large planets and so on and so forth

Get the picture already? you can't give us concrete evidence of what that country size is we can't use that shit as a scale.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 28, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> you do know a country is a vague term right it could be as small as Vatican it probably wouldn't even pass as a city in our scaling to something as large as russia.
> 
> so yea that shit is as pointless as it can get for scaling purposes without any legitimate country on the map that it destroyed being showed to us.
> 
> ...



No, country is as it is, wether it is is small, normal or large, it is still country. Just like how 1/10 of a planet isn't vague as well since we do not know the size of a fictional planet. that can be considered unreliable as well. It could be the size of ceres or smaller.

Besides like it's name sack Etherion from both series has the same destructive capacity which Etherion in rave is country level.


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## shade0180 (Sep 28, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> No, country is as it is, wether it is is small, normal or large, it is still country.



 so you are telling me Vatican is as large as Russia and it would take the same amount of energy to completely destroy Vatican as Russia... bullshit.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 28, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> so you are telling me Vatican is as large as Russia and it would take the same amount of energy to completely destroy Vatican as Russia... bullshit.



The explosion the Etherion caused would beg to differ

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## shade0180 (Sep 28, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> The explosion the Etherion caused would beg to differ



and where are you scaling that etherion again?

 oh wait an imaginary country you don't even know the scale.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 28, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> and where are you scaling that etherion again?
> 
> oh wait an imaginary country you don't even know the scale.



Just like the imaginary planet you can't scale for Etherion from rave


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## shade0180 (Sep 28, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Just like the imaginary planet you can't scale for Etherion from rave



 except it isn't considering the planet for rave exist and there's literally only one you can use for it..


We even have a fucking view of the planet...


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 28, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> except it isn't considering the planet for rave exist and there's literally only one you can use for it..
> 
> 
> We even have a fucking view of the planet...



And Etherion was only considered country level from how powerful it was despite it's over hype


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## shade0180 (Sep 28, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> And Etherion was only considered country level from how powerful it was despite it's over hype



 and? that's non-sequitur. Hype is hype, which we tend to not care about because you know it is hype.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 28, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> and?



And considering that Fiore is the one of the smallest countries in FT that is the only way to scale it to


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## shade0180 (Sep 28, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> And considering that Fiore is the one of the smallest countries in FT that is the only way to scale it to



there are 3 countries smaller than fiore

 you don't even know that...


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 28, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> there are 3 countries smaller than fiore
> 
> you don't even know that...



I said one of them, and they are no way small that your describing them as


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## shade0180 (Sep 28, 2017)

there's like a country barely half of fiore in landmass.

 the difference is that big....



And this is where I'll end this. considering it is 12 am here and I have a business to run tomorrow.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 28, 2017)

No there isn't, likely a few miles smaller but nothing smaller than a country the size a little above the size of the US

@Divel says the king of trolls


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## Divell (Sep 28, 2017)

I thought people learn from the other thread to simply ignore him. That shit is not worth it.


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## Alita (Sep 29, 2017)

Krash said:


> The mach 3600 calc..
> 
> 
> The 94 gigatons value doesn't come from a calc, it comes from Mel and Escanor both tanking a fullcountered Cruel Sun


 I've been told melodias is mach 3600 in speed. I just wanted to know where that came from.


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## Mythoclast (Sep 29, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> I've been told melodias is mach 3600 in speed. I just wanted to know where that came from.


The link got removed from my previous post.Here it is-


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## Gunstarvillain (Sep 29, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> @Divel says the king of trolls


Oh you mean FAnG?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 29, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Fire attacks won't work on Natsu, even his own, Natsu scales to Acnologia which scales above Etherion. And he is MHS+



Still continuing to apply your "no limits fallacy" to Natsu's flames?

There is more to Meliodas' power than just "flames", who already outclasses Natsu completely in regards to physical strength.


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## Gunstarvillain (Sep 29, 2017)

Fang dood. That stray dog.


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## Jag77 (Sep 29, 2017)

Meliodas throws a stick at him.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 29, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Still continuing to apply your "no limits fallacy" to Natsu's flames?
> 
> There is more to Meliodas' power than just "flames", who already outclasses Natsu completely in regards to physical strength.



No it is simple fact, look at his fight with the Vanish Brothers.

Either way he still scales to Acnologia post RoT.

Natsu is also MHS+


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## Divell (Sep 29, 2017)

No. As Nat's was affected by the god flame slayer or whatever. And he only beat Acnologia by empowering from every dragon slayer in the series.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 29, 2017)

Divell said:


> No. As Nat's was affected by the god flame slayer or whatever. And he only beat Acnologia by empowering from every dragon slayer in the series.



God SLayer Magic is just prefixed to bypass Flame Immunity. There are plenty of stronger flame users than Zancrow who's flames have no damaging effect on

That puts him above Acnologia still


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## Divell (Sep 29, 2017)

He needs it to become Acnologia and you need to provide example for the flame.


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## Alita (Sep 29, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> God SLayer Magic is just prefixed to bypass Flame Immunity. There are plenty of stronger flame users than Zancrow who's flames have no damaging effect on
> 
> That puts him above Acnologia still


Bullshit. Natsu was getting his ass kicked by acnologia even with help from other dragon slayers. He was only able to land the finishing death blow with power from all other slayers and acnologia was left unable to move. Acnologia is obviously>>>Natsu in everything.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 29, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> Bullshit. Natsu was getting his ass kicked by acnologia even with help from other dragon slayers. He was only able to land the finishing death blow with power from all other slayers and acnologia was left unable to move. Acnologia is obviously>>>Natsu in everything.



Natsu would not have the fire power if he was weaker than Acnologia as you described, he would have to have a power that surpassed that of Acnologia but even then he would still need one more factor which he had to become more dragon to harm Acnologia.

@Divel that is why Natsu is scaled to Acnologia


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## Divell (Sep 29, 2017)

Only by Wendy tendering power. On his own. Natsu gets trashed.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 29, 2017)

All the Dragon slayers poured their power into Natsu, Wendy already had massive power to begin with.

5 of the 7 were trained specifically to defeat Acnologia for the Dragons' revenge

That doesn't change Natsu scaling to Acnologia


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## Alita (Sep 29, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Natsu would not have the fire power if he was weaker than Acnologia as you described, he would have to have a power that surpassed that of Acnologia but even then he would still need one more factor which he had to become more dragon to harm Acnologia.
> 
> @Divel that is why Natsu is scaled to Acnologia



The point is, it was not natsu's power alone that finished acnologia but all the dragon slayers combined. Without their added power there is no proof he could have taken out acnologia by himself. In addition, the type of magic natsu and others took acnologia out with is specifically designed to kill acnologia so natsu woulden't necessarily need superior stats to kill acnologia due to the nature of dragon slaying magic.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 29, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> The point is, it was not natsu's power alone that finished acnologia but all the dragon slayers combined. Without their added power there is no proof he could have taken out acnologia by himself. In addition, the type of magic natsu and others took acnologia out with is specifically designed to kill acnologia so natsu woulden't necessarily need superior stats to kill acnologia due to the nature of dragon slaying magic.



That doesn't change that Natsu scales to Acnologia, regardless where it came from, it was Natsu that obtained that power to begin with.

It's like saying Goku should not Scale to Beerus since his power came from his Saiyan friends.

By himself or not, it was still the power they obtained in the end, not the means. Also it is who's wielding said power that matters

No, it is to defeat dragons, not Acnologia specifically, Acnologia eats magic and is immune to harm from magic. Only dragons or dragonized DS can harm him.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 30, 2017)

Meliodas not only has Full Counter, which can direct Natsu's fire back at him with double the strength, but also Vanish Counter, which can disperse magic completely, and the Revenge Counter, which can direct all the damage Meliodas can take in the fight back at his opponent (once again with greater power).

On top of all of this, Meliodas' Lostvayne allows him to create four copies of himself, each of which can use Full Counter at its full potential to counter any of Natsu's magical attacks.  He also has a unique "black matter" that he can shift around his body to use for defense and offensive purposes in Assault Mode, _which is not Fire-based_, as well as Hellfire's unique nature that makes it significantly different from any fire Natsu has ever consumed.

When you take all of that into account, alongside the fact that the Meliodas of recent chapters was completely overwhelming Escanor (until "The One" activated), Meliodas is significantly superior to Natsu in every single department - strength, speed, durability, destructive capacity.  

No amount of fallacies applied to Natsu is going to change that fact.


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## shotgun (Sep 30, 2017)

Meliodas lolstomp easily.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Again, Full Counter is meaningless as Fire attacks cannot harm Natsu, even his own.

Don't know what that means but can eat his hell fire too

Natsu burned through darkness before, and Meliodas AM is island level at best, Natsu scales to Acnologia who is above Etherion


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## Blαck (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Again, Full Counter is meaningless as Fire attacks cannot harm Natsu, even his own.
> 
> Don't know what that means but can eat his hell fire too
> 
> Natsu burned through darkness before, and Meliodas AM is island level at best, Natsu scales to Acnologia who is above Etherion



Didn't that God slayer use fire to harm Natsu? Forgot his name


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Didn't that God slayer use fire to harm Natsu? Forgot his name



God Slayer Flames are flames that bypass fire immunity like Natsu because it is prefix to be superior, but even then there are other more powerful fire uses even a fire dragon that are stronger than Zancrow who's flames did not even harm Natsu. It is just a matter of what type and what special effects they have.

Slayers are naturally immune to their respective elements unless they are enchanted or have special abilities that bypass that immunity.


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## Blαck (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> God Slayer Flames are flames that bypass fire immunity like Natsu because it is prefix to be superior, but even then there are other more powerful fire uses even a fire dragon that are stronger than Zancrow who's flames did not even harm Natsu. It is just a matter of what type and what special effects they have.
> 
> *Slayers are naturally immune to their respective elements unless they are enchanted or have special abilities that bypass that immunity.*



So basically Mels black fire


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> So basically Mels black fire



Mel's fire only known to stop certain types of healing factor, doesn't mean that it can bypass Natsu's fire immunity.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Didn't that God slayer use fire to harm Natsu? Forgot his name



We're dealing with a guy who tried to claim Natsu's flames "distort space-time" because of how hot they were.  



OMGMAN said:


> Slayers are naturally immune to their respective elements unless they are enchanted or have special abilities that bypass that immunity.



Meliodas' Hellfire can negate an immortal's regeneration, and he is vastly more powerful than a Red Demon and its Purgatory Fire, which could burn down the Fairy King's Forest, something which no natural flame could accomplish.

Furthermore, Meliodas also has that "darkness" power that both protects him, can heal his injuries, and can be used as a weapon in combat when in Assault Mode.

Meliodas has many more ways of taking down Natsu than Natsu does for him, and is overall superior in every stat.  Escanor without "The One" could curb-stomp the entirety of Fairy Tail on his own, and Meliodas was completely overpowering him up until "The One" triggered.

Natsu has no chance in hell against Meliodas, both in power and in quality.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> We're dealing with a guy who tried to claim Natsu's flames "distort space-time" because of how hot they were.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your trying to imply real size in mangas not just ft where they use pseudoscience.

That does not make it able to bypass Natsu's fire immunity. Be it natural or magical, matters not.

Last I checked Meliodas AM was only island level while Natsu scales to Acnologia which is stronger than Etherion.


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## Dr. White (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Again, Full Counter is meaningless as Fire attacks cannot harm Natsu, even his own.
> 
> Don't know what that means but can eat his hell fire too
> 
> Natsu burned through darkness before, and Meliodas AM is island level at best, Natsu scales to Acnologia who is above Etherion


Shuttttttt theeeeeee fuuuuckkkk upppppp and learn the rules.

Natsu gets penetrated

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2 | Disagree 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Shuttttttt theeeeeee fuuuuckkkk upppppp and learn the rules.
> 
> Natsu gets penetrated



Learn the facts before saying that. 


OT Natsu burns


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## Blαck (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Your trying to imply real size in mangas not just ft where they use pseudoscience.
> 
> That does not make it able to bypass Natsu's fire immunity. Be it natural or magical, matters not.
> 
> Last I checked Meliodas AM was only island level while *Natsu scales to Acnologia* which is stronger than Etherion.



Wut? Why would he ?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Wut? Why would he ?



Since he has possessed enough power that allowed him to kill Acnologia, and possessing dragon body parts that lets him to harm another dragon.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Blαck (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Since he has possessed enough power that allowed him to kill Acnologia, and possessing dragon body parts that lets him to harm another dragon.



Well that wasn't his power tho, the whole brady bunch chipped in for that last attack.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Your trying to imply real size in mangas not just ft where they use pseudoscience.
> 
> That does not make it able to bypass Natsu's fire immunity. Be it natural or magical, matters not.



You are just ignoring everything that does not involve 'fire' in this match-up, aren't you?  

Meliodas shattered a prison and magic seal _just by arm-wrestling with Ban.  _
At the very beginning of Nanatsu no Taizai.  When a majority of his strength was sealed away, _because he turned an entire kingdom into a crater when he lost it in the past.
_
Oh, and let me not forget:





He cut a small mountain in half with the air pressure from swinging *a stick.*



Blαck said:


> Wut? Why would he ?



Apparently, he thinks that "Combined Magic Attack of Ultimate Dragon Slayer Friendship" i.e. the BS that took out Acnologia in one hit, is applicable to Natsu's base stats, despite the fact he needs the Magic power *from six other Dragon Slayers*.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Well that wasn't his power tho, the whole brady bunch chipped in for that last attack.



I don't see how that changes that he still got the power boost, regardless where it came from, their power became his own when it transformed into his flames. The Seven Flame Dragon

It is like saying that Goku's God form isn't his own since all the Saiyans gave him their powers.


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## Blαck (Sep 30, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Apparently, he thinks that "Combined Magic Attack of Ultimate Dragon Slayer Friendship" i.e. the BS that took out Acnologia in one hit, is applicable to Natsu's base stats, despite the fact he needs the Magic power *from six other Dragon Slayers*.



Wow


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Catalyst, I have no time for someone who doesn't even care about FT at all and doesn't even listen to reason.

The kingdom was a size of a small city, 2-3 miles in diameter.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Wow



Their power becomes vastly more powerful, even with power of feelings which is an actual power source in FT


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## Blαck (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> I don't see how that changes that he still got the power boost, regardless where it came from, their power became his own when it transformed into his flames. The Seven Flame Dragon



Alright let's say that's a thing, it would be up to the op( @Blade ) to say Natsu whether or not he starts in that form because unlike Mel who can utilize his transformations on his own, Natsu cannot.


> It is like saying that Goku's God form isn't his own since all the Saiyans gave him their powers.



Lucky for goku he later trained and got a better form so the scaling would work. Ft on the other hand never even tried to imply natsu kept or surpassed that strength by the end.


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## Blαck (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Their power becomes vastly more powerful, even with power of feelings which is an actual power source in FT


I get that( though some scans would be nice). But feelings aren't something you can calc. As far as stats and feats go Mel takes it, if 7 flame natsu is allowed then we got a debate on our hands.


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## Masterblack06 (Sep 30, 2017)

So what im seeing is that Melodious could kill natsu with a stick and natsu has not a damn thing thats actually gonna harm melodious


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Alright let's say that's a thing, it would be up to the op( @Blade ) to say Natsu whether or not he starts in that form because unlike Mel who can utilize his transformations on his own, Natsu cannot.
> 
> 
> Lucky for goku he later trained and got a better form so the scaling would work. Ft on the other hand never even tried to imply natsu kept or surpassed that strength by the end.



Remember that Natsu can retain most powers that he receives, especially from dragon slayers.


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## Blαck (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Remember that Natsu can retain most powers that he receives, especially from dragon slayers.


Yes _most _powers. We don't have anything to prove he could retain seven elements or even hype of a 7 fire dragon to give that statement some ground.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> I get that( though some scans would be nice). But feelings aren't something you can calc. As far as stats and feats go Mel takes it, if 7 flame natsu is allowed then we got a debate on our hands.



In Natsu's fight with Sting and Rogue, Mavis states that Magic can become even more powerful with the power of feelings. And in Zeref's teachings that feelings are vital to the use of magic.

Sure it can't be calculated but becoming stronger with feelings is still a power like how other series with emotion empowerment makes them stronger.

OT Natsu takes this with him scaling to Acno.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Yes _most _powers. We don't have anything to prove he could retain seven elements or even hype of a 7 fire dragon to give that statement some ground.



They are dragon powers, and from what we have seen with Rogue, Sting, Gajeel and Natsu, they can retain their dragon elements, and power ups.


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## Blαck (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> They are dragon powers, and from what we have seen with Rogue, Sting, Gajeel and Natsu, they can retain their dragon elements, and power ups.



Yes one or maybe two power ups(natsu had 2 right?) But 7? That's not some thing we can reasonable say they're capable of without hard evidence or a character doing so.


OMGMAN said:


> In Natsu's fight with Sting and Rogue, Mavis states that Magic can become even more powerful with the power of feelings. And in Zeref's teachings that feelings are vital to the use of magic.
> 
> Sure it can't be calculated but becoming stronger with feelings is still a power like how other series with emotion empowerment makes them stronger.
> 
> OT Natsu takes this with him scaling to Acno.



Yea I get it emotions make magic stronger but to what degree? If natsu gets angry do we add a megaton to his stats or do we say whatever his emotion is it's +1 over Mel just cause? See? That makes shit complicated. 

And what were acnos stats btw?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Yes one or maybe two power ups(natsu had 2 right?) But 7? That's not some thing we can reasonable say they're capable of without hard evidence or a character doing so.
> 
> 
> Yea I get it emotions make magic stronger but to what degree? If natsu gets angry do we add a megaton to his stats or do we say whatever his emotion is it's +1 over Mel just cause? See? That makes shit complicated.
> ...



I would not say he can't considering he ate Etherion which composes all types of elements and was fine "to a degree", with dragon elements it would basically be no different but without the adverse side effects.

I am saying, true that feelings can't be quantified like that but it is a power, I am saying we can find out Natsu's stats from scaling him to Acnologia

Acno scales above Etherion from eating the Ravines of Time.


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## Blαck (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> I would not say he can't considering he ate Etherion which composes all types of elements and was fine "to a degree", with dragon elements it would basically be no different but without the adverse side effects.
> 
> I am saying, true that feelings can't be quantified like that but it is a power, I am saying we can find out Natsu's stats from scaling him to Acnologia
> 
> Acno scales above Etherion from eating the Ravines of Time.


Eterion was that crystal tower right? Iirc he only ate some of it but yes he did technically eat a bit of every magic that day but he retained none of it. Hell he didn't even retain that gold flame that jellal gave him that one time. 

And yeah emotion is a power so to speak based on lanterns and the hulk so to speak but even those are crafty and take scans to back up those emotional boost.

Going with the acno scaling what are the exact numbers we're working with? Can you give links to the acno calcs?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Eterion was that crystal tower right? Iirc he only ate some of it but yes he did technically eat a bit of every magic that day but he retained none of it. Hell he didn't even retain that gold flame that jellal gave him that one time.
> 
> And yeah emotion is a power so to speak based on lanterns and the hulk so to speak but even those are crafty and take scans to back up those emotional boost.
> 
> Going with the acno scaling what are the exact numbers we're working with? Can you give links to the acno calcs?



Because it was not dragon magic, the gold flame was not dragon magic either, but all the dragon slayers magics are and it would work.

I tried to post scans but the site won't let me. Even the origin of all magic is love, and curses are powered by Emotions from Mard's description of curses.

Acno scales to Etherion which destroys a country. As for numbers, since Fiore being the smallest country with an area a bit greater than the United States continent. That should give an idea of what the DC would be. I will get back to you on that


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## Blαck (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Because it was not dragon magic, the gold flame was not dragon magic either, but all the dragon slayers magics are and it would work.
> 
> I tried to post scans but the site won't let me. Even the origin of all magic is love, and curses are powered by Emotions from Mard's description of curses.
> 
> Acno scales to Etherion which destroys a country. As for numbers, since Fiore being the smallest country with an area a bit greater than the United States continent. That should give an idea of what the DC would be. I will get back to you on that



If the site is trippin get the scans upload them to imgur then post them, worked for me anyway. As for the rest I'll wait for some calcs, I keep seeing the eterion country buster calc not being accepted so idk.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Catalyst, I have no time for someone who doesn't even care about FT at all and doesn't even listen to reason.



Given you have done nothing but repeat "b-but Natsu scales to Acnologia who is greater than Etherion" whenever anyone discusses the abilities or feats that make Meliodas superior to Natsu, your definition of 'reason' doesn't mean much.



Blαck said:


> If the site is trippin get the scans upload them to imgur then post them, worked for me anyway. As for the rest I'll wait for some calcs, I keep seeing the eterion country buster calc not being accepted so idk.



Etherion has only ever been a "word of mouth" statement.  The one time it was fired, the R-Tower turned all the magic into Lacrima, so we got no DC from the end result. 

Also, they just said "the United States _continent_".


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## Blαck (Sep 30, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Given you have done nothing but repeat "b-but Natsu scales to Acnologia who is greater than Etherion" whenever anyone discusses the abilities or feats that make Meliodas superior to Natsu, your definition of 'reason' doesn't mean much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, so does acno have anything worth a damn?
Did he get anything from blasting  those islands when he was high on time ravines?


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## OSL (Sep 30, 2017)

Meliodas due to full counter


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Catalyst, And I discussed how Natsu can easily counter them and how he is superior. And Etherion was fired more than once, it gets the DC scaling from destroying nations in Earth Land which are signicantly larger than the US


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Well, so does acno have anything worth a damn?
> Did he get anything from blasting  those islands when he was high on time ravines?



Unlike Catalyst's lack of knowledge from FT, Etherion was fired more than once, it scales to destroying nations from the verse which range to US size or bigger.


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## Dellinger (Sep 30, 2017)

It never destroyed shit


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## LazyWaka (Sep 30, 2017)

We've seen it used twice. Once against the tower and once in a flashback/imagine spot. In neither instance was it anywhere near the scale suggested.


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## John Wayne (Sep 30, 2017)

And where are you even getting US size nations from? To my knowledge we don't know the size of the Fairy Tail nations.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Sakazuki said:


> It never destroyed shit



Before it was demonstrated to Alvarez it's nation busting power



John Wayne said:


> And where are you even getting US size nations from? To my knowledge we don't know the size of the Fairy Tail nations.



From calculating the size of Fiore from the distance used with Warrod's tree to travel on.


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## Blade (Sep 30, 2017)

is OMGMAN a dupe of a certain someone who loves FT?

find it out










someday


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## Blade (Sep 30, 2017)

@MusubiKazesaru 


i give you permission to lock it

since Mel won that fight


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Blade said:


> is OMGMAN a dupe of a certain someone who loves FT?
> 
> find it out
> 
> ...



I am not, don't assume anything, I use the facts from the manga to give an answer why Natsu would take this


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 30, 2017)

Facts?  Last I checked, you called me "mean" and "selfish" for not giving you an estimate for the kind of temperatures needed to "distort/burn space-time".

And people have kept on providing facts for why Meliodas twists Natsu's head off, but your only response is "but Natsu's scales to Acnologia".

You are fan-fic "facts" all the way.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Well you comments proved that you are mean so I don't have to argue anything about that. 

Because Acnologia scales above Etherion which is something Meliodas cannot handle.

And you don't even know that Fire attacks from Natsu won't hurt Natsu, so goodbye


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## John Wayne (Sep 30, 2017)

These kindergarten level arguments lel.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Well you comments proved that you are mean so I don't have to argue anything about that.



If I am "mean", then that makes me Simon Cowell, and you are one of the myriad of terrible performers who think they're hot stuff, yet got universally burned by Simon.



OMGMAN said:


> Because Acnologia scales above Etherion which is something Meliodas cannot handle.



Meliodas at full strength is stronger than his master, Chandler, the same Demon who can create true night through his magical power alone, and casually called down a storm of meteorites in the recent chapter.



OMGMAN said:


> And you don't even know that Fire attacks from Natsu won't hurt Natsu, so goodbye



And you completely missed the point.

Meliodas has more than enough abilities at his disposal that can counter and nullify _anything_ Natsu can throw at him.  Vanish Counter can disperse Natsu's Fire Magic; Full Counter can also just turn any magic attack back on Natsu with greater power (and still be able to damage him, due to the OBD not operating on such fallacies), with a Magic Item that allows him to take complete advantage of his Full Counter ability.

Revenge Counter is the clincher - Meliodas can just switch off all his abilities, and take all the damage Natsu can throw at him.  Then convert that damage into an attack of raw power (no fire), and fire it straight back at the opponent.  And Meliodas can take a lot of damage, including attacks from most of the members of the Ten Commandments.

Either way you look at it, Natsu has _only _his Dragon Slayer Magic.  He's severely out-classed.


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## bitethedust (Sep 30, 2017)

"So Fagsu scales to a feat that's basically nothing but my wishful thinking while being slower than Meliodas so he wins!1!!1!!1!!" - LOLMAN

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Sep 30, 2017)

bitethedust said:


> "So Fagsu scales to a feat that's basically nothing but my wishful thinking while being slower than Meliodas so he wins!1!!1!!1!!" - LOLMAN


"If I kick and scream enough, Mashima-sama will make Natsu strong enough to win! Nakama Punch solos!" Kappa


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## bitethedust (Sep 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> "If I kick and scream enough, Mashima-sama will make Natsu strong enough to win! Nakama Punch solos!" Kappa



RH possessions are pretty dangerous though, watch out for the sodium-induced high pressure

Reactions: Funny 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> If I am "mean", then that makes me Simon Cowell, and you are one of the myriad of terrible performers who think they're hot stuff, yet got universally burned by Simon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't even know who that is and I don't care since it has no meaning here.

At full strength cannot be scaled and even then is likely only island level.

Just like how Jellal managed to make a starry night sky with his power alone too. And meteors that only causes small explosions that are slightly bigger than Hawk's mom.

Full counter is meaningless since Natsu's own attacks won't hurt him, even if greater power (via Vanish Brothers) go read it, but you will likely not do it. And Vanish Counter seems very outliner since he only used it once and never used it again.

His weapons cuts his power in half each time, which Natsu can handle.

Revenge Counter is his only likely means of harming Natsu but even then, Seven Flame Dragon is too powerful for Meliodas to handle.

Having more powers does not make someone invincible, it just makes them difficult


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## SwordSlayer99 (Sep 30, 2017)

John Wayne said:


> And where are you even getting US size nations from? To my knowledge we don't know the size of the Fairy Tail nations.



We can scale Fiore from statements in the Manga. I don't know if links will work, but it's chapter 461.  It's stated that they are 30km from Hargeon and 400km away from Magnolia. 400 - 30 = 370km. Using that 370km you can scale the rest of Fiore, and it ends up being 4500 / 5000 km wide/long.   Which firmly makes Fiore bigger than the US. Here's a calc showing what I mean

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Alita (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Well, so does acno have anything worth a damn?
> Did he get anything from blasting  those islands when he was high on time ravines?



Acnologia going by feats and calcs is city+ level (80 megatons) in durability and firepower with massively hypersonic long range movement speed and sub relativistic attack speed.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Acnologia scales above Etherion after eating the ravines of time


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> I don't even know who that is and I don't care since it has no meaning here.



You...Don't know who Simon Cowell is? 

What a sheltered life you must lead.



OMGMAN said:


> At full strength cannot be scaled and even then is likely only island level.



Given full strength Meliodas was laying out Escanor, who was able to curb-stomp someone who was Island + Level (Estarossa), that gives a good sense of the scaling.  Furthermore, it was an Escanor at nearly double the power level of Estarossa.



> Just like how Jellal managed to make a starry night sky with his power alone too. And meteors that only causes small explosions that are slightly bigger than Hawk's mom.



I should probably refer you to an optometrist, because every impact greatly exceeds Hawk's Mom in size.





OMGMAN said:


> Full counter is meaningless since Natsu's own attacks won't hurt him, even if greater power (via Vanish Brothers) go read it, but you will likely not do it.



I recall that they were non-Mage fodder from the beginning of the series.  Furthermore, it didn't hurt Natsu because "lol he's immune", but because he ate the flames from the very visible counter-attack.  Meliodas' Full Counter is instantaneous. 



OMGMAN said:


> And Vanish Counter seems very outliner since he only used it once and never used it again.



So now you are trying to resort to claims of an outlier to ignore the Vanish Counter, even though we have seen it to be an established part of Meliodas' techniques.  I suspect it is probably because Counter Vanish could negate Natsu's stronger techniques, and reduce this match-up to pure physical strength (one which Meliodas wins by leaps and bounds).



OMGMAN said:


> His weapons cuts his power in half each time, which Natsu can handle.



Then you do not know how Lostvayne works at all, or how Meliodas uses it. 

Only a single clone has half of Meliodas' power, with it further divided if there are four of them, while Meliodas retains all of his power.  It is the power of the Sacred Treasure that makes this possible.  Furthermore, even though each clone has far less strength than the original, all of them can use Full Counter to counter the same level of attacks with minimal effort put in, and all of them can still double the countered attack's power.

Meanwhile, all of Natsu's powerful attacks are based on magic.



OMGMAN said:


> Revenge Counter is his only likely means of harming Natsu but even then, Seven Flame Dragon is too powerful for Meliodas to handle.
> 
> Having more powers does not make someone invincible, it just makes them difficult



No matter how many times you try to make the claim, it will never make it so. 

Acnologia is not "country-level", and neither is Natsu.  You will not get that result here, no matter how many times you harp on about Etherion. 

And I never said that Meliodas' powers make him 'invincible'; on the other hand, your harping about Natsu being "immune to fire" borders on just that.


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## The World (Sep 30, 2017)

Full Counta


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You...Don't know who Simon Cowell is?
> 
> What a sheltered life you must lead.
> 
> ...



I looked it up and realized who Igneel was, and I don't really care for him Either way.

Natsu was able to go up against people who were Island level namely Spriggans.

Only by a minimal size as Those explosions did not even reach mountain level height.

No, Meliodas has to visibly aware and time his counters accordingly and has to be in his general direction to do so. Even so that doesn't even matter as Natsu is still
Immune to his own attacks.

You haven't answered the question of why he didn't use it since that one time. That is logically in question.

It doesn't matter how many clones he makes for FC since it isn't useless to harm Natsu with his own attacks.

Natsu is above country level since one of the smallest countries in FT is around the size of US. and DC needed to destroy it is in the Petatons

You have no proof that Stronger fires can hurt Natsu without an enchantment or abilities that specifically bypass his immunity.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Natsu is above country level since one of the smallest countries in FT is around the size of US. and DC needed to destroy it is in the Petatons



If you are going to debate in these forums, you are going to do so with the profiles laid out by other members, and established on the OBD site proper.  You are not going to be able to force your own interpretations into this, and you have been told multiple times that your interpretations are not accepted.  

Natsu is not "above country level".  That is the long and short of it.



OMGMAN said:


> You have no proof that Stronger fires can hurt Natsu without an enchantment or abilities that specifically bypass his immunity.



Are you really so biased to resort to a 'no limits fallacy' on Natsu's immunity to fire?  

That is not how things work in the OBD.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> If you are going to debate in these forums, you are going to do so with the profiles laid out by other members, and established on the OBD site proper.  You are not going to be able to force your own interpretations into this, and you have been told multiple times that your interpretations are not accepted.
> 
> Natsu is not "above country level".  That is the long and short of it.
> 
> ...



The burden of proof is on you, not me, I provided the evidence needed, just waiting on you.


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## Dr. White (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> The burden of proof is on you, not me, I provided the evidence needed, just waiting on you.


Can we haz section ban

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> The burden of proof is on you, not me, I provided the evidence needed, just waiting on you.



You have provided no evidence whatsoever.  You have just been going on and on about "country Natsu because _my_ scalings", while ignoring every other argument that contradicts your personal interpretation of things.

That is not evidence.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You have provided no evidence whatsoever.  You have just been going on and on about "country Natsu because _my_ scalings", while ignoring every other argument that contradicts your personal interpretation of things.
> 
> That is not evidence.



I have for the past numerous pages. I said Natsu scales to Acnologia who is stronger than Etherion which can destroy a country by the size standard of FT verse which the link has already been provided a page ago.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> I have for the past numerous pages. I said Natsu scales to Acnologia who is stronger than Etherion which can destroy a country by the size standard of FT verse which the link has already been provided a page ago.



In case you have forgotten, we go by feats, not by blind scaling via 'word of mouth' statements about a thing which we never see do what it is said to.

We have more reason to conclude that Yhwach w/Soul King absorbed is Planet level because the Soul King holds together three worlds, but that idea is not accepted because Yhwach was not actively shown using power of such a level.


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## shade0180 (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> The burden of proof is on you, not me, I provided the evidence needed, just waiting on you.



technically it's still on you, you have a country level claim without and real supporting evidence with a feat showing less than the claim and only hype to go on for it that could be hand wave for multiple reason due to failing to uphold that hype into the multiple account it have been used.

 you need to provide why we should accept that country level hype you keep talking about when it couldn't uphold it in story context or even showing.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> In case you have forgotten, we go by feats, not by blind scaling via 'word of mouth' statements about a thing which we never see do what it is said to.
> 
> We have more reason to conclude that Yhwach w/Soul King absorbed is Planet level because the Soul King holds together three worlds, but that idea is not accepted because Yhwach was not actively shown using power of such a level.



But how is Yamamoto considered country level when he never shown such a feat?


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## Blαck (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> But how is Yamamoto considered country level when he never shown such a feat?


Iirc we had some showings during his banks that backed the whole "could destroy the sereitei" thing as well word of mouth from other high level soul reaper.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> technically it's still on you, you have a country level claim without and real supporting evidence with a feat showing less than the claim and only hype to go on for it that could be hand wave for multiple reason due to failing to uphold that hype into the multiple account it have been used.
> 
> you need to provide why we should accept that country level hype you keep talking about when it couldn't uphold it in story context or even showing.



LINKHL]206898[/LINKHL]

It'sstated that they are 30km from Hargeon and 400km away from Magnolia. 400 - 30 = 370km. Using that 370km you can scale the restof Fiore, and it ends up being 4500 / 5000 km wide/long. Which firmly makes Fiore bigger than the US.

And here is the destruction value of US and we can scale that higher once we add the Fiore area.

To irradicate the country from the map via vaporizing would be 7429734*10^10*760*100*25600 = 1.445*10^26 J = 34.55 Petatons (High 6-A). It doesn't consider Alaska since is way separated from


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Iirc we had some showings during his banks that backed the whole "could destroy the sereitei" thing as well word of mouth from other high level soul reaper.



But if I remember correctly that still doesn't hold value since it never happened, plus it was technically a suicide move


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 30, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Iirc we had some showings during his banks that backed the whole "could destroy the sereitei" thing as well word of mouth from other high level soul reaper.



Just by releasing his Bankai, it was drying up everything in the Seireitei, with statements by Unohana and Yamamoto himself that, if he didn't finish the fight in _a matter of minutes_, the entire Soul Society would be destroyed by his power - burnt to ashes.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 30, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> And here is the destruction value of US and we can scale that higher once we add the Fiore area.



That's calc-stacking.  You are trying to exploit one calc in order to get a desired result for something which has no shown DC value.

We are generally very skeptical of such stacking, or out-right dismiss them altogether.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> That's calc-stacking.  You are trying to exploit one calc in order to get a desired result for something which has no shown DC value.
> 
> We are generally very skeptical of such stacking, or out-right dismiss them altogether.



It is very much like how Yamamoto never destroyed seireitie and yet gets the country feat for no reason.

We use the value of what has been tested and confirmed before in the manga, a power that was previously shown firing to destroy an entire country


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> We use the value of what has been tested and confirmed before in the manga, a power that was previously shown firing to destroy an entire country



You mean an 'example' that is an artistic depiction, not an actual flashback.



OMGMAN said:


> It is very much like how Yamamoto never destroyed seireitie and yet gets the country feat for no reason.



It was not for no reason, since the process started from the moment Yamamoto released Zanka no Tachi.  Yamamoto had no reason to embellish the effects his Bankai has on the environment around him.  Furthermore, the statement is contained within _Zanka no Tachi_ and Yamamoto itself.

On the other hand, you are stacking multiple times just to get your preferred result for this one match up.  You take the size of Fiore gotten by one calc and apply it to Etherion, _then you go on to claim that Acnologia "scales to above Etherion", *all just to claim Natsu is country+ level because he used the power of six other Dragon Slayers to beat Acnologia.
*_
You stacked four different things on top of each other just to get a result for one character.  That is what is known as calc-stacking.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You mean an 'example' that is an artistic depiction, not an actual flashback.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Flashback which is an actual firing of the weapon since it was confirmed used before.

Changing the temperature has no DC since it destroyed anything, unless you want to say it dry up the water which is not a lot. Unles he actually destroys seireitei I don't see why he could

If that were the case, Irene should get her upgrade from how she physically compressed Fiore.

If I recall correctly he just contained the flames previously releases, he would destroy himself and everything else in his suicidal Bankai later. Which he didn't.

That is because I put the facts from the manga to make the calc logical.


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## Divell (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> I have for the past numerous pages. I said Natsu scales to Acnologia who is stronger than Etherion which can destroy a country by the size standard of FT verse which the link has already been provided a page ago.


Even if somehow accepted Acnologia as Country. Natsu does NOT scale to him.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Divell said:


> Even if somehow accepted Acnologia as Country. Natsu does NOT scale to him.



He does since his power outstrips Acnologia's with the seven flame dragon.


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## Divell (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> It is very much like how Yamamoto never destroyed seireitie and yet gets the country feat for no reason.
> 
> We use the value of what has been tested and confirmed before in the manga, a power that was previously shown firing to destroy an entire country


The country comes from Yams's shield actually.


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## Divell (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> He does since his power outstrips Acnologia's with the seven flame dragon.


By. Increasing. His. Own. Combining. All. Of. Them. Put. Together. 

Natsu wasn't even moving Acnologia prior to that. And only won by Igneel having bite off Acnologia's left arm.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Divell said:


> By. Increasing. His. Own. Combining. All. Of. Them. Put. Together.
> 
> Natsu wasn't even moving Acnologia prior to that. And only won by Igneel having bite off Acnologia's left arm.



That doesn't mean that it wasn't  he that utilize that power which he did. Moving doesn't mean anything, it is about how he tanks attacks, he was under motion sickness, temporarily stopped but even then Natsu had the necessary power and dragon parts that can put Acnologia down.



Divell said:


> The country comes from Yams's shield actually.



What shield?


----------



## Divell (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> That doesn't mean that it wasn't  he that utilize that power which he did. Moving doesn't mean anything, it is about how he tanks attacks, he was under motion sickness, temporarily stopped but even then Natsu had the necessary power and dragon parts that can put Acnologia down.
> 
> 
> 
> What shield?


Natsu utilising all of the DS 's power. Not something he can do on his own.

The 15 million degrees flames across his body.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Divell said:


> Natsu utilising all of the DS 's power. Not something he can do on his own.
> 
> The 15 million degrees flames across his body.



Same thing with Goku's Super Saiyan God form.

Besides it is not like he can't retain other dragon slayer powers at once.

Which is nonsense as it would have burned the entire world to cinders just by being there. Besides all it did was just stop a sword swing which should not have high DC


----------



## Divell (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Same thing with Goku's Super Saiyan God form.
> 
> Besides it is not like he can't retain other dragon slayer powers at once.
> 
> Which is nonsense as it would have burned the entire world to cinders just by being there. Besides all it did was just stop a sword swing which should not have high DC


No. As Goku retained the power. Unlike Natsu.

Except those were used to increase his power by Wendy's outside help magic. Which is only temporary.

Only overtime. And Yamamoto's body increases that high thanks to the flame bring compressed.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> If that were the case, Irene should get her upgrade from how she physically compressed Fiore.



She shrank the landmass and moved around land-marks.  You've already been told that is hax, to which DC cannot be applied.  Yamamoto's Bankai doesn't fall under the category of hax.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 1, 2017)

Divell said:


> Only overtime. And Yamamoto's body increases that high thanks to the flame bring compressed.



The shield in of itself is not flame (Haschwalth states correctly that no flame can exist with such high temperatures); Zanjitsu Gokui gave Yamamoto's reiatsu the property of "heat".  As to why it is all contained instead of immediately vaporizing everything around Yamamoto, I think of it like a Tokamak - there is a secondary ability that contains the vast majority of the heat within a field close to Yamamoto's body.

It is Kyokujitsujin's temperature that is reached by compressing all the heat energy of Yamamoto's flames into the edge of his Zanpakuto.


----------



## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Divell said:


> No. As Goku retained the power. Unlike Natsu.
> 
> Except those were used to increase his power by Wendy's outside help magic. Which is only temporary.
> 
> Only overtime.



Which Dragon Slayers have proven to retain other dragon powers.

Doesn't change that it was Natsu that used that power, this is EOS Natsu which is that same power that he obtained.

Not overtime, just a time limit before all that power is unleashed, Yamamoto's body does not increase and it is the flames hat are already released that gets compressed.


----------



## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> She shrank the landmass and moved around land-marks.  You've already been told that is hax, to which DC cannot be applied.  Yamamoto's Bankai doesn't fall under the category of hax.



The only hax is the teleportation of people as the land itself is enchanted, not the people, not the buildings.

It falls under suicide move as it destroys the Seireitei and himself after time runs out. Similar to how August can destroy an entire country with Ars Magia


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## Divell (Oct 1, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> The shield in of itself is not flame (Haschwalth states correctly that no flame can exist with such high temperatures); Zanjitsu Gokui gave Yamamoto's reiatsu the property of "heat".  As to why it is all contained instead of immediately vaporizing everything around Yamamoto, I think of it like a Tokamak - there is a secondary ability that contains the vast majority of the heat within a field close to Yamamoto's body.
> 
> It is Kyokujitsujin's temperature that is reached by compressing all the heat energy of Yamamoto's flames into the edge of his Zanpakuto.


I know. I'm just talking tiny words with him. To not overcomplicate things.


----------



## ho11ow (Oct 1, 2017)

Mel full counter, Natsu cannot eat his own flame(ds rule) so he get damaged. repeat this until Natsu loses
 its simple


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Gen compressed the flames, not the heat, such ludicrous heat would burn the Seireitei out of existence


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> Mel full counter, Natsu cannot eat his own flame(ds rule) so he get damaged. repeat this until Natsu loses
> its simple



His own flames will not harm him, proven sincea the beginning of the series


----------



## ho11ow (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> His own flames will not harm him, proven sincea the beginning of the series


the heat maybe but kinetic energy from it will harm him. Also what natsu have aside his flame since it useless to Mel?


----------



## Divell (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Which Dragon Slayers have proven to retain other dragon powers.
> 
> Doesn't change that it was Natsu that used that power, this is EOS Natsu which is that same power that he obtained.
> 
> Not overtime, just a time limit before all that power is unleashed, Yamamoto's body does not increase and it is the flames hat are already released that gets compressed.


No. They obtain the magic not physical force. 

Again only temporal. EoS is Natsu on his last appearance not final Deus Ex Machina.

Dude. Please grab a science book before you embarrass yourself. The flames are that hot due to surface area on Yamamoto's body. Not to literally increasing its size.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Gen compressed the flames, not the heat, such ludicrous heat would burn the Seireitei out of existence





Coming from the guy who wants to claim Natsu can "burn space-time", this is nothing but the apotheosis of hypocrisy and hilarity.

And again, shows that you have zero understanding of what you are trying to push for.  

Yamamoto states it himself: Kyokujitsujin concentrates _all the heat his flames possess _into the line of the blade's edge.  That intense heat is how it blasts any matter it cuts into nothingness.  The principle that confines the heat of Zanjitsu Gokui to close to his body is the same that contains the heat of his blade to within the blade's edge.

Though I guess you wouldn't want Old Man Yamamoto to be more powerful than Natsu.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> the heat maybe but kinetic energy from it will harm him. Also what natsu have aside his flame since it useless to Mel?



That still applies as the flames are not going to harm him even if multiplied, and FC is just power, nothing about speed how is flames useless? Besides that great strength, jet powered physical combat, lightNing, dragon force, etc.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Coming from the guy who wants to claim Natsu can "burn space-time", this is nothing but the apotheosis of hypocrisy and hilarity.
> 
> And again, shows that you have zero understanding of what you are trying to push for.
> 
> ...



You are talking about applying actual science in mangas series where it is pseudoscience. He said his shikai flames that were released are compressed yet the heat is still felt Across Seireitei, that is a big contradiction on his and the author's part. Don't talk to me about hypocrisy.

Besides Natsu's flames become hot enough to distort spacetime. There is no other way to do it otherwise 

It is not what you are accusing, i simply use facts when he is using a suicidal bankai


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Divell said:


> No. They obtain the magic not physical force.
> 
> Again only temporal. EoS is Natsu on his last appearance not final Deus Ex Machina.
> 
> Dude. Please grab a science book before you embarrass yourself. The flames are that hot due to surface area on Yamamoto's body. Not to literally increasing its size.



What does physical power has to do with this? Magic and dragon essence are enough.

No, it is at his strongest in his final battle, you have no idea that it was temporary.

Yamamoto contradicts himself as the heat is still felt


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## Rax (Oct 1, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> Mel full counter, Natsu cannot eat his own flame(ds rule) so he get damaged. repeat this until Natsu loses
> its simple


He can when tampered with.


The Natsu down play is strong.


Irene's meteor is >>>> anything in SDS and Natsu is > Irene


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 1, 2017)

Oh, brilliant.  Now Rax is involved.  

I haven't been in a situation like this since Tonathan100 and LordofEternity both frequented the board at the same time. 



OMGMAN said:


> You are talking about applying actual science in mangas series where it is pseudoscience. He said his shikai flames that were released are compressed yet the heat is still felt Across Seireitei, that is a big contradiction on his and the author's part. Don't talk to me about hypocrisy.



You seem to take things too literally.  Containing all the heat of his Zanpakuto into the edge of his blade, or the heat of Zanjitsu Gokui does not equal "no heat escapes".  Rather, it shows why the Bankai itself is so dangerous to both its enemies, Yamamoto himself, and the world he is standing on - he can only contain so much heat for so long before it runs out of control. 



OMGMAN said:


> Besides Natsu's flames become hot enough to distort spacetime. There is no other way to do it otherwise



Again, your hypocrisy is astounding.

Let me put it this way:



OMGMAN said:


> Gen compressed the flames, not the heat, such ludicrous heat would burn the Seireitei out of existence



You're so limited in your considerations that you consider _only_ 15 million Celsius to be "ludicrous" and should "burn Seireitei out of existence".  You consider that to be 'ludicrous', yet still think that Natsu's flames "distorting space-time" is somehow "feasible".



OMGMAN said:


> What does physical power has to do with this? Magic and dragon essence are enough.



Because that is not how vs. battles work.  _All factors _are taken into consideration, not just the singular ones you want to abuse to give your character the win, when they are outstripped in any other factors.



Rax said:


> The Natsu down play is strong.
> 
> 
> Irene's meteor is >>>> anything in SDS and Natsu is > Irene



That meteor was not given any DC, the last time I checked.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Oh, brilliant.  Now Rax is involved.
> 
> I haven't been in a situation like this since Tonathan100 and LordofEternity both frequented the board at the same time.
> 
> ...



I think you are je one taking things literally as You try to equate heat from DC which it did nothing but dry up some water, chip a lip and melted a ice Bankai. Do not see the country size destruction, which can only mean that it is his suicide move that is country after losing control.

The only one hypocritical is Yama when his heat is being emitted which was supposed to be sealed.

At least it was shown Natsu's flames burned through time because his heat increasing anger reached that level

Then vs battles already has Irene at large country

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## ho11ow (Oct 1, 2017)

Rax said:


> He can when tampered with.
> 
> 
> The Natsu down play is strong.
> ...


Any proof to this?


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> I think you are je one taking things literally as You try to equate heat from DC which it did nothing but dry up some water, chip a lip and melted a ice Bankai. Do not see the country size destruction, which can only mean that it is his suicide move that is country after losing control.



There was a time limit to how long Yamamoto could have Zanka no Tachi safely activated, both stated by Unohana and Yamamoto himself.  The initial environmental effects just from the release points towards the fact that the threat of destruction to all of Soul Society was very real.  



> The only one hypocritical is Yama when his heat is being emitted which was supposed to be sealed.



There is no hypocrisy here.  The heat of his flames is concentrated along the edge of the Zanpakuto, and the reiatsu immediately around his body possesses a heat of 15 million Celsius.  

Some heat is still able to escape, hence the immediate environmental effect.  



> At least it was shown Natsu's flames burned through time because his heat increasing anger reached that level



Again, you have no idea what you are talking about, as you already demonstrated a while back when you tried to get _me_ to tell you how "hot" Natsu's flames would have to be.

In other words, you are arguing something _you can't even be bothered to put a value to_, yet still find the time to call 15 million Celsius "ludicrous temperatures".  

Natsu burned away the Fairy Heart magic through "friendship and emotions", and Mashima's terrible writing.  That is the only answer you are going to get around here.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> There was a time limit to how long Yamamoto could have Zanka no Tachi safely activated, both stated by Unohana and Yamamoto himself.  The initial environmental effects just from the release points towards the fact that the threat of destruction to all of Soul Society was very real.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is what I was saying the whole time. No, he stated that he compressed the heat yet there is heat still affecting the environment which is contradictory to his statement.

 I am well aware of what Bankai abilities are. The fact that his heat still emanates while he stated that it was compressed is still hypocritical.

 Thanks to hollow, the temperature likely to perform the feet would be the kugelblitz temperature.

 See, was that so hard to just come out and say? No it is not. 

 No, he burnt the time with the intense heat that was increased by his anger that was stated that his emotions increase the intensity of his plane is in and that was stated that his emotions increase the intensity of his plane is in heat.  Stop arguing against facts,


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> That is what I was saying the whole time. No, he stated that he compressed the heat yet there is heat still affecting the environment which is contradictory to his statement.



Actually, it is not contradictory to his statements.  Concentrating all the heat of his flames into the blade's edge is precisely what gives Zanka no Tachi its incredible power - rather than simply "burn" his enemies with fire, he blasts into nothingness with pure heat any physical object he cuts with the blade.



OMGMAN said:


> Thanks to hollow, the temperature likely to perform the feet would be the kugelblitz temperature.
> 
> See, was that so hard to just come out and say? No it is not.
> 
> No, he burnt the time with the intense heat that was increased by his anger that was stated that his emotions increase the intensity of his plane is in and that was stated that his emotions increase the intensity of his plane is in heat. Stop arguing against facts,



Though I suppose he forgot to mention that any object that gets that hot _*would burn away the planet they're standing on in an instant,*_ and the fact that a "kugelblitz" is a _black hole made from a vast concentration of light/radiation in a single spot.
_
So, explain to me how the Guild building was still standing after (supposedly) having so intense an amount of heat in its interior.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Actually, it is not contradictory to his statements.  Concentrating all the heat of his flames into the blade's edge is precisely what gives Zanka no Tachi its incredible power - rather than simply "burn" his enemies with fire, he blasts into nothingness with pure heat any physical object he cuts with the blade.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That doesn't explain why heat is still felt when all the heat is concentrated at the edge of the sword which is makes no sense story wise.

I will use Divell's logic that the world people and atmosphere has of ethernanos just like everything in SS has reishi.


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## Divell (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> What does physical power has to do with this? Magic and dragon essence are enough.
> 
> No, it is at his strongest in his final battle, you have no idea that it was temporary.
> 
> Yamamoto contradicts himself as the heat is still felt


Replace green screen by you.


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## Divell (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> That doesn't explain why heat is still felt when all the heat is concentrated at the edge of the sword which is makes no sense story wise.
> 
> I will use Divell's logic that the world people and atmosphere has of ethernanos just like everything in SS has reishi.


Except is specified that those people are made of reishi, dumbass.


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## Divell (Oct 1, 2017)

Rax said:


> He can when tampered with.
> 
> 
> The Natsu down play is strong.
> ...


There is no calc for it.


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## bitethedust (Oct 1, 2017)

LulHero clinging to feats nobody accepts lol

Soon enough we'll have Spidey vs Firelord being used as legit evidence.


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## DeathHero61 (Oct 1, 2017)

Meliodas stomps easily.....


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## DeathHero61 (Oct 1, 2017)

What is this???


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Divell said:


> Replace green screen by you.



I am not an inanimate object sir.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Divell said:


> Except is specified that those people are made of reishi, dumbass.



That doesn't change anything when they the atmosphere and the earth emit magic power as well. Doesn't make a big difference


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## Divell (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> That doesn't change anything when they the atmosphere and the earth emit magic power as well. Doesn't make a big difference


Show me the statement when is said the world of Fairy Tail operates on similar rules like that of Soul Society where literally everything and everyone is made out of Reishi. And it does make it a big difference. As the atmosphere of FT's planet may emit magic, but is not compressed of it.


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## Divell (Oct 1, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> I am not an inanimate object sir.


Which is why I said to replace yourself with it. Stop this shit already. You have not said a single thing that would ever be accepted here. Wanna make Natsu Superman lv? Make a fanfiction. Until then, stop.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Divell said:


> Show me the statement when is said the world of Fairy Tail operates on similar rules like that of Soul Society where literally everything and everyone is made out of Reishi. And it does make it a big difference. As the atmosphere of FT's planet may emit magic, but is not compressed of it.



What does it matter since the world, atmosphere and people have and emit ethernanos? Compressed or not makes no difference since like I said above, even the Atmosphere in SS was not broken down by Quincies.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 1, 2017)

Divell said:


> Which is why I said to replace yourself with it. Stop this shit already. You have not said a single thing that would ever be accepted here. Wanna make Natsu Superman lv? Make a fanfiction. Until then, stop.



Natsu is Superhuman, above that actually by his stats


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 2, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> That doesn't explain why heat is still felt when all the heat is concentrated at the edge of the sword which is makes no sense story wise.



You cannot be this stupid.

Actually, given you're trying to argue "kugelblitz temperatures" for Natsu, you're beyond that level of stupid.


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> What does it matter since the world, atmosphere and people have and emit ethernanos? Compressed or not makes no difference since like I said above, even the Atmosphere in SS was not broken down by Quincies.


They emit, but they aren't made of it, nor is shown it affects the physics of the world they live in unlike with Bleach.



OMGMAN said:


> Natsu is Superhuman, above that actually by his stats


Can't you read the difference between Superman and Superhuman? For the love of whatever you think is sacred in this world...

spare us having to explain shit to you.


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## Rax (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> There is no calc for it.


You can use sheer logic of looking at the damn thing.


*Spoiler*: __


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

Rax said:


> You can use sheer logic of looking at the damn thing.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


Two things. The meteor's speed was done via calc, so calcing kinetic energy via that is calc stalking and due to its small size (shown by the panel when Erza charges at it) using the normal speed of a meteor it only goes town lv at most. It adds nothing.


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## Rax (Oct 2, 2017)

You can literally look at how it compared to the planet and know even without a calc it's absurdly above anything in SDS


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## bitethedust (Oct 2, 2017)

>still clinging to that feat

How about you try to address why people in this very thread refuse to recognize it instead of bringing it up as accepted evidence?


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## Rax (Oct 2, 2017)

Because the feat was huge and gets down played cause FT isn't liked in the OBD.

If this happened in OP it'd be managed to be calced to huge numbers


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

Rax said:


> You can literally look at how it compared to the planet and know even without a calc it's absurdly above anything in SDS


You know if the writer were to take the actual size in that panel you wouldn't see it right?



bitethedust said:


> >still clinging to that feat
> 
> How about you try to address why people in this very thread refuse to recognize it instead of bringing it up as accepted evidence?


Because he knows those reasons are legit.


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

Rax said:


> Because the feat was huge and gets down played cause FT isn't liked in the OBD.
> 
> If this happened in OP it'd be managed to be calced to huge numbers


Actually is because
1. Everyone (even normal people) were able to react to it.
2. The meteor is soo small it doesn't really matter if accepted or not.

If the feat were to have been done by Oda instead of Mishima then it would have been done right. Instead of the crap hole it was done as.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## bitethedust (Oct 2, 2017)

I was about to type "and don't justify it not being accepted because of bias" but figured lolhero would be smart enough not to try that.

Guess not lol.

OBD has accepted bigger feats for shit they don't like, stop that.


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## Rax (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> Actually is because
> 1. Everyone (even normal people) were able to react to it.
> 2. The meteor is soo small it doesn't really matter if accepted or not.
> 
> If the feat were to have been done by Oda instead of Mishima then it would have been done right. Instead of the crap hole it was done as.




So did Gremmys, Madara's, Chandelier's, and Fujitora's


Meanwhile it covered 500,000 kilometers in the time it took Erza to lean up

You realize the meteorite that hit Russia a few years ago was like 2 meters wide and carried more force than 30 Atomic bombs?


Speed is vital to a meteor.

You're literally trying to discredit the feat cause you dislike the series


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## Rax (Oct 2, 2017)

bitethedust said:


> I was about to type "and don't justify it not being accepted because of bias" but figured lolhero would be smart enough not to try that.
> 
> Guess not lol.
> 
> OBD has accepted bigger feats for shit they don't like, stop that.




Show me a bigger feat in SDS


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

Rax said:


> So did Gremmys, Madara's, Chandelier's, and Fujitora's


Oh course you're going to compare. The problem is 

Everyone in those verse were Hyper sonic++++
Huge as fuck unlike FT's to the point it covered at least 2 digit miles.
Actually done right.



> Meanwhile it covered 500,000 kilometers in the time it took Erza to lean up


Read again. Erza only started to stand when the meteor was there. Erza had almost everything broken. And everyone saw it coming as soon as it appeared.



> You realize the meteorite that hit Russia a few years ago was like 2 meters wide and carried more force than 30 Atomic bombs?


1 kilotons is a atomic bomb.



> Speed is vital to a meteor.


Which in case of FT it slowed a lot upon entering the planet.



> You're literally trying to discredit the feat cause you dislike the series


I actually like the series. Is not close to my top 5000 but I like it. Hentai with real fights is rare in these days. But the feat is worth shit.


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## Rax (Oct 2, 2017)

Tell me how theirs was done right.


What? No she didn't.

She was trying to get up prior to ever seeing the meteor on panel.



The lowest possible speed calced for get Meteor was Mach 13k 

>Hentai


If you think FT's fan service is anything heavy you're an idiot.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You cannot be this stupid.
> 
> Actually, given you're trying to argue "kugelblitz temperatures" for Natsu, you're beyond that level of stupid.



No, I am critically thinking which is a paradix his part.


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

Rax said:


> Tell me how theirs was done right.


Gremmy: first off it created tension. When it was first created it left a cliffhanger for the next chapter. In the next chapter we see everyone's reaction to the meteor where not just the "good guys" were scared shirtless. Then we get a small glance of hope. The dome surrounding the Seireitei is a protection that would always stop anything that comes from above it. Then boom the meteor is far too big for the dome and it doesn't even slow it down. Then we get, the bad guys' reaction where everyone is shitting their pants even Yhwach the final boss with capital B. And Hashwalth his right hand man who knows everything about him even the times he masturbate and to whom screams yelling like a bitch to protect him. Just over those panel on a single chapter is shown shit is going down. And no one can stop it. Then boom. Kenpachi receives it just as a challenge and charges at it, revealing his Zanpakuto after he destroys it.

It follows a path

It creates tension.
It provides a light of hope for everyone just to crush it like a bug.
It shows already provided characters to be powerful as shit as powerless against the falling meteor. 
The "hero" saves the day.
The others follow a similar path, while Fairy Tail James straight to number 4 not even building up tension.



> What? No she didn't.
> She was trying to get up prior to ever seeing the meteor on panel.


.
Yes she did. Prior to it she said she couldn't move at all due to her broken bones to the point she shouldn't have been able to jump and survive due to her bones cleaving her from the inside out.






> The lowest possible speed calced for get Meteor was Mach 13k


Prior to entering the planet where it slowed down to nothing.



> >Hentai


Do you see boobs on regular basis? Is hentai.




> If you think FT's fan service is anything heavy you're an idiot.


Strong? No. On a constant basis? Yes.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## LazyWaka (Oct 2, 2017)

The meteorite was to small to really get anything impressive even if we did do a ke calc for it. (And fwi, the reason we aren't doing that is because we don't accept ke calcs that are dependant on assumed timeframes.)


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## LazyWaka (Oct 2, 2017)

Erza was stripped naked, chained up, afflicted with a power that makes her more sensitive, and then harassed by a tentacle monster all simultaneously. If that's not heavy (and creepy) fanservice than I don't know what is.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Imagine (Oct 2, 2017)

That was Waka's favorite moment in the manga

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

LazyWaka said:


> Erza was stripped naked, chained up, afflicted with a power that makes her more sensitive, and then harassed by a tentacle monster all simultaneously. If that's not heavy (and creepy) fanservice than I don't know what is.


Also this.


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

Imagine said:


> That was Waka's favorite moment in the manga


Top 1 foe everyone.


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## Rax (Oct 2, 2017)

LazyWaka said:


> The meteorite was to small to really get anything impressive even if we did do a ke calc for it. (And fwi, the reason we aren't doing that is because we don't accept ke calcs that are dependant on assumed timeframes.)





The cloud parting alone in this panel


*Spoiler*: __ 





 ,


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> They emit, but they aren't made of it, nor is shown it affects the physics of the world they live in unlike with Bleach.
> 
> 
> Can't you read the difference between Superman and Superhuman? For the love of whatever you think is sacred in this world...
> ...



It does since it can effect space time, Gravity, reality, possesses multiple universes, etc. all worlds have their own laws of physics because they are different realities. Again that changes nothing since Ethernanos exist in the atmosphere, earth and people which they are supernaturally stronger than normal particles.


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## Rax (Oct 2, 2017)

LazyWaka said:


> Erza was stripped naked, chained up, afflicted with a power that makes her more sensitive, and then harassed by a tentacle monster all simultaneously. If that's not heavy (and creepy) fanservice than I don't know what is.




The tentacle demon never touched her pretty sure 

Also Soma has a million times for fan service


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> It does since it can effect space time, Gravity, reality, possesses multiple universes, etc. all worlds have their own laws of physics because they are different realities. Again that changes nothing since Ethernanos exist in the atmosphere, earth and people which they are supernaturally stronger than normal particles.


Show me the proof.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

LazyWaka said:


> Erza was stripped naked, chained up, afflicted with a power that makes her more sensitive, and then harassed by a tentacle monster all simultaneously. If that's not heavy (and creepy) fanservice than I don't know what is.



Compared to Casca, stripped naked, harassed, marked, held down by Tenticle monster and rapes, that is some heavy Fanservice right there compared to Erza's treatment


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## Rax (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> Gremmy: first off it created tension. When it was first created it left a cliffhanger for the next chapter. In the next chapter we see everyone's reaction to the meteor where not just the "good guys" were scared shirtless. Then we get a small glance of hope. The dome surrounding the Seireitei is a protection that would always stop anything that comes from above it. Then boom the meteor is far too big for the dome and it doesn't even slow it down. Then we get, the bad guys' reaction where everyone is shitting their pants even Yhwach the final boss with capital B. And Hashwalth his right hand man who knows everything about him even the times he masturbate and to whom screams yelling like a bitch to protect him. Just over those panel on a single chapter is shown shit is going down. And no one can stop it. Then boom. Kenpachi receives it just as a challenge and charges at it, revealing his Zanpakuto after he destroys it.
> 
> It follows a path
> 
> ...




This entire post is flawed and disgusting


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> Show me the proof.



Did you not read the manga? All the spells, the different worlds? The multiple timelines it causes the dimensions it created. You should read the whole series again


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

Rax said:


> Fairy Tail as a entire series is flawed and disgusting


Fixed it for ya.


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Did you not read the manga? All the spells, the different worlds? The multiple timelines it causes the dimensions it created. You should read the whole series again


I don't like cancer. And it never shows it made of ethenano. We even got an entire dimension without it.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> I don't like cancer. And it never shows it made of ethenano. We even got an entire dimension without it.



You can only get cancer from radiation, extreme sun burn, X-ray, etc. not reading a manga, that is silly talk.

Not the point, besides, SS does not have any distortion in physics as well, it shows just about the same physics as the real world.


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## Rax (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> Fixed it for ya.


If your entire argument is you didn't like how FT did Irene's meteor then just stop.


You're being 100% biased.


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## LazyWaka (Oct 2, 2017)

I never said that fairy tail had the most fanservice. Just that it had alot.



Imagine said:


> That was Waka's favorite moment in the manga



Who told you!? 



Rax said:


> The cloud parting alone in this panel
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



And literally every other panel shows that it was no where near that big.


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## Rax (Oct 2, 2017)

LazyWaka said:


> I never said that fairy tail had the most fanservice. Just that it had alot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The size is irrelevant.


The force it had around it is.


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## NW (Oct 2, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Compared to Casca, stripped naked, harassed, marked, held down by Tenticle monster and rapes, *that is some heavy Fanservice right there *


What in the fuck....?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

NW said:


> What in the fuck....?



Fanservice is something that people want, and wanting to see sexual activity it one of their forte. Likely hentai


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## LazyWaka (Oct 2, 2017)

Rax said:


> The size is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> The force it had around it is.



The size is completely relevant when you're trying to get a ke value for it. And the shockwave size is worthless because literally every other panel shows that it is no where near as big as the planet view suggested.


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## NW (Oct 2, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Fanservice is something that people want, and wanting to see sexual activity it one of their forte. Likely hentai


Different people want to see different things though. By that definition everything in every manga is fanservice.

Also, Casca being ruthlessly brutalized and violated in front of Guts as he lost his arm and eye in the midst of that traumatic event, which resulted in Cascas mind breaking and their child being demonified, was clearly not intended as fanservice.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Dr. White (Oct 2, 2017)

@MusubiKazesaru 
Lock please

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rax (Oct 2, 2017)

LazyWaka said:


> The size is completely relevant when you're trying to get a ke value for it. And the shockwave size is worthless because literally every other panel shows that it is no where near as big as the planet view suggested.



You don't need to do KE.

The feat has Cloud parting.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Oct 2, 2017)

I would have locked this far sooner, but I've been having issues with that option in some parts of the site for unknown reasons.

@Ultimate Deathsaurer 

Are you able to?


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## LazyWaka (Oct 2, 2017)

Id lock it but im at work and my phone isnt letting me.


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Compared to Casca, stripped naked, harassed, marked, held down by Tenticle monster and rapes, that is some heavy Fanservice right there compared to Erza's treatment


You think a human woman getting raped until she literally shatter her mind is erotic? You know I'm the most unbearable asshole in the planet, my first reaction to human suffering and war is crack the popcorn and laugh. Bit that's really bad.



OMGMAN said:


> You can only get cancer from radiation, extreme sun burn, X-ray, etc. not reading a manga, that is silly talk.
> 
> Not the point, besides, SS does not have any distortion in physics as well, it shows just about the same physics as the real world.


FT is just as bad.

Wrong. Is stablished that the concentration of Reishi which makes all worlds is stronger in SS.



Rax said:


> If your entire argument is you didn't like how FT did Irene's meteor then just stop.
> 
> 
> You're being 100% biased.


No. As I provided not just why the comparison between both series is wrong but I also give the reason as of why is not acceptable.



OMGMAN said:


> Fanservice is something that people want, and wanting to see sexual activity it one of their forte. Likely hentai


By giving that example you're saying a woman getting raped is erotic. I know I already used this but...


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## bitethedust (Oct 2, 2017)

Rax said:


> Show me a bigger feat in SDS



So you'll continue with a brilliant goalshifting move instead of addressing what I told you to, AKA all the problems everyone already stated pages ago and in other recent threads like the Fate one too.

lol


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> You think a human woman getting raped until she literally shatter her mind is erotic? You know I'm the most unbearable asshole in the planet, my first reaction to human suffering and war is crack the popcorn and laugh. Bit that's really bad.
> 
> 
> FT is just as bad.
> ...



Depends on what source material and how it is portrayed like hentai, and you think a woman tortured is erotic?

But in general, no, I hate rape

Well that is your opinion, while I don't like Bleach for it's poor execution.

And FT world has Ethernano concentration too, so stop disregarding it as that big of a difference.

You have given no reason why it is not accepted.

Would you say that hentai (Berserk) is erotic? Would you say torture (FT) is erotic?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

NW said:


> Different people want to see different things though. By that definition everything in every manga is fanservice.
> 
> Also, Casca being ruthlessly brutalized and violated in front of Guts as he lost his arm and eye in the midst of that traumatic event, which resulted in Cascas mind breaking and their child being demonified, was clearly not intended as fanservice.



And Erza stripped naked, beaten and tortured and humiliated is not intended for fanservice either if you think that way


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Depends on what source material and how it is portrayed like hentai, and you think a woman tortured is erotic??


Considering she was stripped naked chained and her senses being damaged with no real after effect to Erza while having payback against the bitch that do so... Yes. Casca did not ended the same way.



> But in general, no, I hate rape


Then don't mention it.



> Well that is your opinion, while I don't like Bleach for it's poor execution.


>doesn't like bleach for poor execution.
>loves FT.
This guy. 



> And FT world has Ethernano concentration too, so stop disregarding it as that big of a difference.


Again, not the same. Reishi replace atoms. Ethernano is the equivalent of ki and chakra.



> You have given no reason why it is not accepted.



Meteor too small to be calced via ke.
Meteor slows down considerably after entering the planet.
We don't use calc stalking.



> Would you say that hentai (Berserk) is erotic? Would you say torture (FT) is erotic


Berserk is not Hentai. FT is kept PG-13 while showing nipples, ass and more.


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 2, 2017)

Omg this fucking thread....
> Casca's scene being seen as "fan-service"
>Divell constantly comparing stuff that happess in a shit series to his favorite slightly less shity series
>People seriously discussing that Erza's scene like it had any fucking senlance of meaning.
> People trying to wank the shit out of the copy-paster Meteor feat by claiming ''lawl atomic-shit''
> people trying to accuse other people of downplaying FT because they don't like it when it coulnt be any clearer that ther are biassed for FT...

Seriously..this needs locking ASAP.

PS... Don't put Berserk and FT or Bleach in the same sentence ever again.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> Considering she was stripped naked chained and her senses being damaged with no real after effect to Erza while having payback against the bitch that do so... Yes. Casca did not ended the same way.
> 
> 
> Then don't mention it.
> ...



Erza didn't do anything other than chain Kyoka, and threatened to kill her to tell her where her friends are.

And no, she had after effects, need for revenge and a sense of shame after the battle.

So yes in a way they had psychological damage.
Stop trying to justify torture as erotic so that the Berserk hentai is justified as well.

At least the main character was not a Mary Sue.

Ethernanos are particles which are smaller than atoms. And it permeates the entire world and its people.

It is still sub-relativistic regardless.

There was no nipples, only ass and that is common nudity which is appropriate in medias. Berserk has nipples and pubic hair and more. Stop making things up


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> Bullshit.



Go read it, if you dare


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

And now comes the bitch.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

Why talk about yourself?


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Omg this fucking thread....
> > Casca's scene being seen as "fan-service"
> >*Divell constantly comparing stuff that happess in a shit series to his favorite slightly less shity series*
> >People seriously discussing that Erza's scene like it had any fucking senlance of meaning.
> ...


Get context bitch. He started it. I just explained as to why he is wrong, you know the usual shit.


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 2, 2017)

You can neg all you want, it won't cahnge the fact that your favorite series is ass.

Back on topic, Meliodas's fire >> Natsu's
Mel can Full Counter the shit out of everything that Natsu throws at him.
Mel stomps.That mucn is clear.
He uses Lostvayne for fun to combo the shit out of Natsu.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

And yet you are called king of trolls

OT Natsu takes this


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> You can neg all you want, it won't cahnge the fact that your favorite series is ass.
> 
> Back on topic, Meliodas's fire >> Natsu's
> Mel can Full Counter the shit out of everything that Natsu throws at him.
> ...


I'm not. 

And Melliodas only needs physical stats.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

Sounds like you are


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> And yet you are called king of trolls
> 
> OT Natsu takes this


I'm sorry, we're you talking to here 


OMGMAN said:


> Why talk about yourself?



to me before? 
This comment 


Divell said:


> And now comes the bitch.


wasn't towards you. You don't even register on the list of people I would let them pay me for sex, much less the people that I would pay them for sex.


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> I'm not.


You're not what ? You deny negging me ?


Divell said:


> And Melliodas only needs physical stats.


Like i said..He has fun , he can do whatever the fuck he wants, he still wins.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> I'm sorry, we're you talking to here
> 
> 
> to me before?
> ...



The one with troll in th profile name.

Why would I be on a list when i have a stable job?

OT, Natsu would be fine with physical stats.


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

Guys, is not that he is bias. He is retarded by nature.


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> Guys, is not that he is bias. He is retarded by nature.


Oh, fucking stop it. What he does here is not different to what you do with Bleach. The only difference is the magnitude of bs. He takes more liberties to wank FT to unbelievable levels than you. That's all. You're the biggest Bleach wanker on the forum and he's the biggest FT wanker togheter with Rax. You're in the same position. For fuck sake you tried to push for FTL level Bleach in the past and multi-planet lvl Bleach. You even tried to fucking bring feats from movies which are not cannon.The Allmighty wank is no slouch either.
There are a few things i hate more than hypocrisy.
Stop it, ningen.


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## Mythoclast (Oct 2, 2017)

Not locked yet?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

@reyatsuguy what wanking? I am just using feats and facts from the manga that is all. I am more than capable of stating who beats FT

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Oh, fucking stop it. What he does here is not different to what you do with Bleach. The only difference is the magnitude of bs. He takes more liberties to wank FT to unbelievable levels than you. That's all. You're the biggest Bleach wanker on the forum and he's the biggest FT wanker togheter with Rax. You're in the same position. For fuck sake you tried to push for FTL level Bleach in the past and multi-planet lvl Bleach. You even tried to fucking bring feats from movies which are not cannon.The Allmighty wank is no slouch either.
> There are a few things i hate more than hypocrisy.
> Stop it, ningen.


Yes, as a troll against FTL Naruto (I'm not apologizing, though). This dude is legit.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

Yeah, Haku speed of light is rather vague


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> Yes, as a troll against FTL Naruto (I'm not apologizing, though). This dude is legit.


And so are you. And of  course you would play it off as trolling. The fuck do you care about what other poeple want to push for Naruto ? And why would you replicate it in Bleach's case ?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 2, 2017)

Guess anyone wants anything if it ment at the expense of others


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## Divell (Oct 2, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> And so are you. And of  course you would play it off as trolling. The fuck do you care about what other poeple want to push for Naruto ? And why would you replicate it in Bleach's case ?


FYI there legit reason to consider both yhwach and Ichigo planet. Although only statements and off-screen/panel feats. But not discussing that, as for the other questions, because bitch, I got that much free time.


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 2, 2017)

Divell said:


> FYI there legit reason to consider both yhwach and Ichigo planet. Although only statements and off-screen/panel feats. But not discussing that, as for the other questions, because bitch, I got that much free time.


That's nice but ultimately irrelevant since you pushed for multi-planet not just planet. If you really have that much time i reccomend working on yourself to rid yourself of your wank-syndrome ,dishonesty and hypocrisy.
That is, if you actually want people to respect you.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## LazyWaka (Oct 2, 2017)

Locked because consensus has been reached and is getting horribly off topic. (Also I can finally lock threads on my phone.)


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