# Momoshiki vs. Three-Eyed Rinnegan Jūbi Madara



## ATastyMuffin (Nov 21, 2015)

Just wanna see if people still overrate the fuck out of Madara as of late.


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## Rocky (Nov 21, 2015)

Madara was pretty close to Hagoromo I thought. How much better is Momoshiki than the SO6P?

It is _really_ hard to "overrate" a Ten-Tails host with two Rinnegan and the Rinne-Sharingan.


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## ATastyMuffin (Nov 21, 2015)

It's easy to when people still think someone who probably would have lost to six paths naruto and rinnegan sasuke in their teens can beat someone was going toe-to-toe with adult naruto and sasuke with *much[/B} more experience with the same powers on a much greater scale

oh, and was stated to be a greater threat than kaguya*


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## Rocky (Nov 21, 2015)

Does Momoshiki have Super Senjutsu to bypass Madara's ninjutsu negation? 

I don't see this as a stomp regardless. There is no character in this manga that is _stomping_ Hagoromo-level characters. Naruto was able to at least _keep up_ with Kaguya, and he's weaker than Madara. 

Unless Momoshiki just shits all over Kaguya, Madara shouldn't be getting murdered.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 21, 2015)

We didn't see much from three eyed Madara other than a multi-orb CT that has yet to be rivaled by anyone. 

He might have had the teleportation ability with that third eye, could've had increased speed, durability, strength, regeneration after absorbing that Shinju. 

We don't know. 

There's no room for unknowns when it comes to god level battles, it takes a lot to kill them. This isn't a debatable match IMO, we simply don't know what Madara would've been capable of, though I assume after gaining the power boost of the Shinju that he'd of had the ability to use a Susano likely not even rivaled by Prime Sasuke (assuming he could still use a Susano, we know blind [absent original eyes, which may yet have still also contained those EMS powers aside from the rinnegan powers] SM Madara [significantly weaker than this version] could use V3)

(Juubi+ Shinju + Dual Transmigrant (Indra & Ashura's DNA) PS > Bijuu PS).
(Juubi + Shinju + Dual Transmigrant (Indra & Ashura's DNA) & Sharinnegan = Super Teleporatating more-than-just-4-copies Limbo?)


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## Rocky (Nov 21, 2015)

Madara could probably do everything he should have been capable of, but Kishimoto didn't have the time (or desire) to show him doing so. If he can use continental Chibaku Tensei, then he can use ST & BT lol.

Then you've got Limbo, which is story-breaking hax at its finest. I just don't know what Momoshiki's powers are. If he handled both Super Sage Naruto & Rinnegan Sasuke, then odds are he's got some workaround to all the canon hax & theoretical hax Madara has, alongside some theoretical hax of his own.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 21, 2015)

I would've liked to get a glimpse at a Juubi + Shinju + Fully Evolved Transmigrant PS, even if he had been solo'd by Zetsu a panel after. 

We just don't know if those eyes of his still contained EMS powers, there's really no reason they wouldn't have, just because they remained Rinnegan for others, shouldn't really mean that they simply evolved into Rinnegan and lost all EMS abilities.

Limbo should've been different though, depending upon what the Sharinnegan gave him (teleporating limbo clones, it's also technically another Rinnegan so does that add more clones?), he didn't awaken the eye until after CT was out and the limbo clones were already being jobbed by RSM Naruto clones. But at that point the limbo clones weren't needed anymore anyway, he put the world under Genjutsu the second after he awakened it. 

But yeah Madara was restricted a great deal, as were the kids in their battle against him and later Kaguya (VOTE 2 versions, only hours later, were far more versatile), for plot sake.


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## Rocky (Nov 21, 2015)

I agree. Kishimoto should've just kept Madara has the final boss. Like, did he not have a large-enough move set to work with?


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 21, 2015)

Lol @ Nagato having more feats with Madara's Rinnegan, than Madara himself, first while in Sage Mode, then while a Juubi Jinchuriki, and finally while a transcended Juubi Jinchuriki 

Bro had 1 of the "Six Paths" allocated by the Rinnegan.

Can you imagine how powerful a transcended Juubi Jinchuriki Chou Shinra Tensei would be?

Nagato's poor man's CST (through Gedo [Six Paths Technique]) formed a crater 500m deep, several miles wide, and removed buildings like they were trash on the ground being power washed, while fired from several kilometers displaced from this trash.


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## Rocky (Nov 21, 2015)

It'd be on the same scale as that Chibaku Tensei was, which was like continent or something.  You could legit see the curvature of the planet.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 21, 2015)

It would wipe the kids out, it canonically through Nagato's poor man version (Six Paths Technique) literally erased an FRS in transit on-contact, it would disperse any technique (Indra Arrow, SPSBM FRS). 

It can be released across the entire body while simply standing somewhere, even while severely wounded [1]. 

He goes into CQC with them, dodges and then repels them into the next country without using hand gestures, purely from and away from his body. 

They'd of been toast if he had access to this technique scaled to the level of power he had, especially considering there is apparently a consensus now that the "5 second interval" was only associated with the technique when used through the Gedo Path's Six Path Technique.


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## Rocky (Nov 21, 2015)

Dat plot.


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## Zef (Nov 21, 2015)

Madara is overrated. All this hype about him having three eyes yet the only feat he has in that form are island sized Chibaku Tensei, and Infinite Tsukuyomi. Both of which were countered by two teenagers who had their power ups for a few minutes. 


That being said. I actually don't know who'll win. Just wanted to rant.

But since I firmly believe Adult Naruto & Sasuke stomp JJ Madara I'll go with Momoshiki since they had some trouble dealing with him in the movie. Note I said SOME trouble.


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## Kyu (Nov 21, 2015)

Momo _w/o_ Kinshiki absorbed ripped apart EoS rikudou Kyuubisano'o by spamming basic elemental ninjutsu. 

It's unlikely EoS Naruto & Sasuke will have trouble with Triclops Madara when their younger selves would've eventually taken him down.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 21, 2015)

Kyu said:


> Momo w/o Kinshiki absorbed ripped apart EoS rikudou Kyuubisano'o by spamming basic elemental ninjutsu.
> 
> *I have a difficult time imagining EoS Naruto & Sasuke having trouble with Triclops Madara when their younger selves would've eventually taken him down*.


Well depending on specifics we don't know about that. 

Logically, with access to the other 5 paths, which should all be significantly more powerful as a result of it being Evolved Transmigrant Madara with Madara's eyes, Madara being powered by the Juubi, further transcended by the Shinju, and being granted a third Rinnegan which should transcend the paths and limbo even further as well as granting him Amenominaka....

I'd say that version of triclops Madara would defeat the kids.

Feat-wise, the restricted version of Madara we saw on panel would have probably lost to them.


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## Kai (Nov 21, 2015)

I don't see how Madara is overrated when it was outright stated he was Hagoromo's near equal. I'd still peg Hagoromo to have the edge, but with both Rinnegan in tow and Rinne-Sharingan awakened Madara is certainly on Hagoromo's plain of strength.


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## Mercurial (Nov 21, 2015)

Hagoromo was much more powerful than Madara. Hagoromo's base chakra was the one that, divided in half for each and added to RSM and Rinnegan respectively, made Naruto and Sasuke on the level of God Tiers. On top of that, Hagoromo was the Juubi jinchuriki, with a complete Juubi, while Madara's Juubi lacked still half of the Kyuubi chakra.

OT. I don't see how Madara doesn't trash Momoshiki. As I don't see how Kaguya, Kakashi, Naruto, Sasuke and Gai don't with their feats. Naruto and Sasuke were nerfed against Momoshiki, let's not forget that. And Naruto didn't even use Rikudo Senjutsu. The fact that Momoshiki was a "threat stronger than even Kaguya" was proved wrong both by words (it was wrong if I remember well) and by feats.


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## Ersa (Nov 21, 2015)

Momoshiki's casual elemental attacks were ripping Rikudo-PS combined with Ashura's avatar to shreds. He certainly has the firepower to hurt Madara. He also avoided a blitz from Sasuke that RSM Naruto at VOTE 2 failed to do. So either way it's close, hard to debate without feats from Madara.

But yeah one thing I don't doubt is EoS Sasuke with Naruto would shitstomp Madara. Their variants in The Last easily do it too. Sasuke's Chidori went from the size of a building to CST+ level. The gains they made were fucked


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## KeyofMiracles (Nov 21, 2015)

Only way Momoshiki stands a chance of winning here is if he can use all the absorption techs he used in the movie. If not, then he's screwed because some of Madara's strongest techniques aren't conventional Ninjutsu. They are jutsu that manipulate an already existing substance, like CT or CST. CQC is 100% irrelevant when CQC is the only way Momoshiki can stand against Naruto and Sasuke and when Madara doesn't need to engage in CQC. The moment it became Avatar vs Avatar, Momoshiki literally got one shotted. Unless you people actually think that Naruto and Sasuke w/ what they did in CQC against Momoshiki will take down a full power Madara, mentioning them is irrelevant.

Ha, even then Momoshiki doesn't have Senjutsu. So he can't hurt Madara w/ the absorbed Jutsu. So he'll have to focus on CQC. But then he can't hurt Limbo since Momoshiki doesn't have Senjutsu nor can he get past the Gudo Dama. So Gudo Dama tanks all of Momoshiki's attacks and then he gets torn apart by:

-A swing of PS's blade if he's using his golem.
-CT rain.
-CST.
-Limbo

I also find it funny how he absorbed all their Ninjutsu, yet when Kurama came out he created a falcon and a golem in an attempt to destroy it.


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## ARGUS (Nov 21, 2015)

Madara wins this. 

He can make CT much larger and more in quantity compared to what he did  in canon. and given that momoshiki wont have the firepower to bust them without absorbing a shit ton of attacks. nor can momoshiki  just evade them without madara counterattacking.

so Momoshiki then gets crushed by the giant meteorites



KeyofMiracles said:


> Only way Momoshiki stands a chance of winning here is if he can use all the absorption techs he used in the movie. If not, then he's screwed because some of Madara's strongest techniques aren't conventional Ninjutsu. They are jutsu that manipulate an already existing substance, like CT or CST. CQC is 100% irrelevant when CQC is the only way Momoshiki can stand against Naruto and Sasuke and when Madara doesn't need to engage in CQC. The moment it became Avatar vs Avatar, Momoshiki literally got one shotted. Unless you people actually think that Naruto and Sasuke w/ what they did in CQC against Momoshiki will take down a full power Madara, mentioning them is irrelevant.
> 
> Ha, *even then Momoshiki doesn't have Senjutsu.* So he can't hurt Madara w/ the absorbed Jutsu. So he'll have to focus on CQC. But then he can't hurt Limbo since Momoshiki doesn't have Senjutsu nor can he get past the Gudo Dama. So Gudo Dama tanks all of Momoshiki's attacks and then he gets torn apart by:
> 
> ...



Momoshiki has the rinnegan doe. 
meaning he has the rikudo chakra (which is a form of senjutsu) flowing within his body 
not seeing why he doesnt have senjutsu. 

regardless i dont see how he counters raining CT so madara wins either way

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## KeyofMiracles (Nov 21, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Momoshiki has the rinnegan doe.
> meaning he has the rikudo chakra (which is a form of senjutsu) flowing within his body
> not seeing why he doesnt have senjutsu.
> 
> regardless i dont see how he counters raining CT so madara wins either way



Nope. Only the chakra that comes from Hagoromo himself. 

-Madara had Rinnegan, yet needed Hashirama's Sage Mode.
-Nagato can't sense Nature Energy, but Sasuke post Hagoromo buff can.


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## Ersa (Nov 21, 2015)

Momoshiki has Chou Bijuudama.

It was enough to knock out RSM Naruto and probably stronger then his elemental attacks. Busting meteors shouldn't be an issue.


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## ARGUS (Nov 21, 2015)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Nope. Only the chakra that comes from Hagoromo himself.


Hagoromo is the rikudo 
Rikudo chakra is the same, the only difference lies within its potency 


> -Madara had Rinnegan, yet needed Hashirama's Sage Mode.


What instance are you referring to? 


> -Nagato can't sense Nature Energy, but Sasuke post Hagoromo buff can.


nagato isnt the original weilder of the eye, nor does he have the rikudo chakra



Ersad said:


> Momoshiki has Chou Bijuudama.
> 
> It was enough to knock out RSM Naruto and probably stronger then his elemental attacks. Busting meteors shouldn't be an issue.



yeah but he can only get the huge TBB once he has absorbed some chakra
given the fact that he is a rinnegan user with the most hax chakra absorption ability in the manga. i doubt madara will be giving him free food here


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## Ersa (Nov 21, 2015)

If this is post-Kinshiki Momoshiki, he won't need to absorb chakra for Chou Bijuudama. Probably doesn't need it tbh, busting PS + Ashura's Avatar is a ridiculous feat.

If this is pre-Kinishiki Momoshiki, Madara wins yeah.


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## KeyofMiracles (Nov 21, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Hagoromo is the rikudo
> Rikudo chakra is the same, the only difference lies within its potency
> 
> What instance are you referring to?
> ...



Alright, you have a point here. Was thinking about the eye itself and not the chakra required to awaken the eye.


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## Ersa (Nov 21, 2015)

I always assumed Ōtsutsuki = Rikudo chakra, lol.

Every Ōtsutsuki shown thus far has been god tier status.


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## ARGUS (Nov 21, 2015)

Ersad said:


> If this is post-Kinshiki Momoshiki, he won't need to absorb chakra for Chou Bijuudama. Probably doesn't need it tbh, busting PS + Ashura's Avatar is a ridiculous feat.


Nah naruto never used the ashuras avatar against momo. 

and i agree, post momo should have definitely released some TBBs instead of summoning the fodder golem to fight against PS-Kyuubi. only to then get humiliated. 
especially when he also had enough of pills and chakra within him to actually release them in that point of time. 

unless we assume that momo has already absorbed a shit ton of attacks, he isnt releasing those huge TBBs 



> If this is pre-Kinishiki Momoshiki, Madara wins yeah.


pre kinshiki momo gets mid diffd at most. 
cant see how he tanks CST



> I always assumed Ōtsutsuki = Rikudo chakra, lol.
> 
> Every Ōtsutsuki shown thus far has been god tier status.



yeah, since all ootsutsuki have inherited chakra directly from kaguya


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## Ersa (Nov 21, 2015)

He was RSM in the fight.

Why wouldn't it be Ashura's avatar?


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## Mercurial (Nov 21, 2015)

Ersad said:


> He was RSM in the fight.
> 
> Why wouldn't it be Ashura's avatar?



It wasn't RSM but BSM if I'm not wrong.


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## Ersa (Nov 21, 2015)

Databooks and concept art suggest RSM.

Someone had the links to the art and shit but I don't remember who. 

It's not BSM though, no Sage eyes.


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## ARGUS (Nov 21, 2015)

Ersad said:


> He was RSM in the fight.
> 
> Why wouldn't it be Ashura's avatar?



Ashuras avatar was what he gained when he absorbed a shit ton of nature energy at VOTE 
its the 3 headed and 6 armed avatar that he had. 

in the movie it was just a regular RSM avatar 

and NO it wasnt BSM since naruto had no pigmentation around his eyes.


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## Platypus (Nov 21, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> The fact that Momoshiki was a "threat stronger than even Kaguya" was proved wrong both by words (it was wrong if I remember well) and by feats.



How so?


*Naruto Gaiden chapter 700+5*

_Sasuke:_ Please listen… Even though Naruto and I sealed Kaguya…And even despite the extent to which how strong she was, (There’s something about her) producing the army of Shiro Zetsu, which had made preparations to wage a war…

It’s always been on my mind.

I investigated the remnants of Kaguya in my own way. And then… First of all, I discovered that the army of Shiro Zetsu was something that was produced a long time ago, and before Shinobi were born.

This is… just a hypothesis. But this is an indicator of something. That is… An existence of something that even threatened Kaguya. It suggests that it’s something that will make an appearance in this world…​​

*Boruto: Naruto the Movie*

_Sasuke:_ According to the scoll... It was recorded that these guys would come to steal the fruit of the chakra... That's why Kaguya was amassing an army of White Zetsu...

(...)

_Momoshiki:_ Precisely. As long as we have this [the pills], we are eternally young, immortal and invincible! You poor, inconvenient humans... Unless you train and persevere senselessly, you get nowhere. Watch me! With this pill, instantly, with no effort, and so easily, I acquire true power.​


Kaguya was legitimately afraid of these guys.


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## Mercurial (Nov 21, 2015)

Ersad said:


> Databooks and concept art suggest RSM.
> 
> Someone had the links to the art and shit but I don't remember who.



Well not that I don't trust you, but if you could post something it could be intersting. There's a wide, wide, wide gap between Bijuu Sennin Mode (even with full Kurama) and Rikudo Senjutsu Mode (even with half Kurama). Naruto clearly didn't use Gudodama but it can be said that it was because Momoshiki could still absorb them.


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## Ersa (Nov 21, 2015)

RSM Naruto doesn't have pigmentation.

Rikudo Naruto War Arc

*Spoiler*: __ 







Boruto RSM


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## Shinobi no Kami (Nov 21, 2015)

momoshiki possesses no senjutsu, so he cant bypass madaras one truthseeker and he cant see, sense or damage limbo. he also doesnt have the firepower to counter mass CT.

feat wise, madara kills him easily, though i doubt the fight would be easy if it were to happen in the story.


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## Mercurial (Nov 21, 2015)

Manιwa said:


> How so?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't see how is implied she was afraid. She just wanted to take preventive measures. She grew paranoid about other people having her "precious chakra". Momoshiki wanted to reach Kaguya's level by eating the Shinju chakra fruit, in the movie he told he was her follower, her lackey, I dont' remember precisely but something like that. This alone tells he wasn't on her level. He wasn't immortal as she was, also. He died by a fucking Cho Odama Rasengan. Madara tanked much more.

"In the novel Sasuke says Kaguya created the Zetsu army to protect the thee/Shinju from being stolen from Otsutsuki bandits since the three in her dimension was dead she knew they'd come after the fruit she created in the Naruto dimension so that's why she created the zetsu army. Even though Sasuke already knows why Kaguya created the zetsu army it is implied he still should find out the origins of Kaguya and the Otsutsuki clan because there're indeed MORE Otsutsuki in other dimensions like Momoshiki and Kinshiki and they can be a threat for the shinobi world like Momoshiki and Kinshiki.
*Kaguya was indeed stronger than Momoshiki since Momoshiki's plan was to get all the bijuu to recreate the fruit to become immortal and he was an ordinary Otsutsuki who only had two rinniegans in his hands which allowed only him to absorb ninja's chakra and power and use it for himself.
It is stated there out are more Otsutsuki in other dimensions* "


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## Mercurial (Nov 21, 2015)

Ersad said:


> RSM Naruto doesn't have pigmentation.
> 
> Rikudo Naruto War Arc
> 
> ...



It seems BSM but infused with Rikudo chakra. Sort like of Kakashi and Sasuke having Rikudo chakra in their bodies but not a Rikudo Senjutsu Mode. Sort like actually Naruto in The Last with KCSM.


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## Ersa (Nov 21, 2015)

Pigmentation around the eyes is the defining trait of BSM. Without it, it's just Bijuu Mode.



That's BSM.


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## Mercurial (Nov 21, 2015)

In The Gaiden Naruto was just in Bijuu Mode then?


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## Platypus (Nov 21, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> I don't see how is implied she was afraid. She just wanted to take preventive measures. She grew paranoid about other people having her "precious chakra".



The scroll implies that she was preparing to face Momoshiki and Kinshiki specifically ["these guys"].



> Momoshiki wanted to reach Kaguya's level by eating the Shinju chakra fruit, in the movie he told he was her follower, her lackey, I dont' remember precisely but something like that. This alone tells he wasn't on her level. He wasn't immortal as she was, also. He died by a fucking Cho Odama Rasengan. Madara tanked much more.
> 
> "In the novel Sasuke says Kaguya created the Zetsu army to protect the thee/Shinju from being stolen from Otsutsuki bandits since the three in her dimension was dead she knew they'd come after the fruit she created in the Naruto dimension so that's why she created the zetsu army. Even though Sasuke already knows why Kaguya created the zetsu army it is implied he still should find out the origins of Kaguya and the Otsutsuki clan because there're indeed MORE Otsutsuki in other dimensions like Momoshiki and Kinshiki and they can be a threat for the shinobi world like Momoshiki and Kinshiki.
> *Kaguya was indeed stronger than Momoshiki since Momoshiki's plan was to get all the bijuu to recreate the fruit to become immortal and he was an ordinary Otsutsuki who only had two rinniegans in his hands which allowed only him to absorb ninja's chakra and power and use it for himself.
> It is stated there out are more Otsutsuki in other dimensions* "



Nope.

Some of the villains' dialogue in the movie:


*Momoshiki:* I didn't expect the chakra was dispersed in this manner.

*Kinshiki:* The Divine Tree has been cut down, and there is no sign of Kaguya. It seems the creatures of this planet have gained unnecessary knowledge.

(...)

*Momoshiki:* Imagine that... High-density chakra in humans in the form of beasts.

*Momoshiki absorbs Killer B's Bijuu chakra and turns it into four pills.*

*Momoshiki:* Is that all? Well, I did use most of the pills while travelling through Time-Space.

(...)

*Naruto:* What do you want with me?

*Kinshiki:* We will turn the scattered chakra into one fruit and finish what Kaguya failed to do on this seedbed.

*Sasuke:* According to the scoll... It was recorded that these guys would come to steal the fruit of the chakra... That's why Kaguya was amassing an army of White Zetsu...

*Naruto:* First Kaguya, and now this... What do they plan to do with the fruit?

*Sasuke:* They plan on making pills.

*Naruto:* Pills?

*Sasuke:* Medicine.

*Momoshiki:* Precisely. As long as we have this [the pills], we are eternally young, immortal and invincible! You poor, inconvenient humans... Unless you train and persevere senselessly, you get nowhere. Watch me! With this pill, instantly, with no effort, and so easily, I acquire true power.

(...)

*Kinshiki: *Now, Lord Momoshiki. It seems the time has come to consume my chakra. Just as in the past, when my guardian entrusted me with their power... Do not waver.

*Momoshiki:* Like I would!​[]​
No mention of them having been Kaguya's lackeys or anything.

Other than that, the translation of the novel I've read mentioned nothing like that either.[]​

Feat and ability wise, I'd hand it to Kaguya over Momoshiki any day though (obviously). It's just that Kishimoto would like us to believe that these guys would've been a legitimate threat against Kaguya.


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## Kai (Nov 21, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Hagoromo was much more powerful than Madara. Hagoromo's base chakra was the one that, divided in half for each and added to RSM and Rinnegan respectively, made Naruto and Sasuke on the level of God Tiers. On top of that, Hagoromo was the Juubi jinchuriki, with a complete Juubi, while Madara's Juubi lacked still half of the Kyuubi chakra.



Madara gained the second Rinnegan and awakened the Rinne-Sharingan afterwards. It's undeniable after saying "Madara is getting *close* to me", that Madara arrived at Hagoromo's plain of strength after getting even more powerful.


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## Itachi san88 (Nov 21, 2015)

Madara is overrated because it can beat Naruto and Sasuke 1vs1? 

Please, actually Naruto and Sasuke are overrated because some people they think that the two can defeat Madara easily


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## Rocky (Nov 21, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> In The Gaiden Naruto was just in Bijuu Mode then?



No, his eyes had the cross. Whenever you see the cross in the eyes without the sage pigmentation, it's Super Sage Mode. Anything else from there is just extra tailed beast power added on.


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## Trojan (Nov 21, 2015)

Kai said:


> Madara gained the second Rinnegan and awakened the Rinne-Sharingan afterwards. It's undeniable after saying "Madara is getting *close* to me", that Madara arrived at Hagoromo's plain of strength after getting even more powerful.



Naruto and Sasuke were superior to that madara with each of them having only half of Hago's power.


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## Hasan (Nov 21, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Naruto and Sasuke were superior to that madara with each of them having only half of Hago's power.



1/2 + 1/2 = 1.


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## Trojan (Nov 21, 2015)

Indeed.

But Narudo was pretty much trashing Madara before Sasuke come to the scene, and he even trashed him in base.

And then Sasuke came and he trashed madara several times even without Naruto and cut him in half as well.

Madara had to run for his life from little kids.


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## Hasan (Nov 21, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Indeed.
> 
> But Narudo was pretty much trashing Madara before Sasuke come to the scene, and he even trashed him in pace.
> 
> ...



Well, it's typical of Kishi to dedicate a segment for showing new powers. What's important is if it entailed each of two being stronger than him individually? The answer is no, as Naruto bluntly put it. If they needed to work together to beat Madara, then they aren't stronger than him. The rest is just... Well, it happens in fights: you get hit.

Did you just emphasize upon their ages?


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Nov 21, 2015)

Momoshiki gets smashed by mass usage of chibaku tensei that he can't absorb not to mention limbo(also can't be absorbed) throwing in their jutsu's as well.

Truth seekers and susanoo prevents him from getting one-shotted should he need them.


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## Lord Aizen (Nov 21, 2015)

Madara creates 100 shadow clones. Each clone uses Perfect susanoo, six paths power, izanagi, shared vision, and limbo. What can this guy do against 500 shadows. The madaras can switch places with the shadows at any time avoiding any chance of being hit.


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## Blu-ray (Nov 22, 2015)

A fight between them could probably go either way, depending on whether nor Madara uses techniques on him that can be absorbed by Momoshiki.

Would still go for Madara more times than not, being Rikudo's near equal and being immortal and all.


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## SuperDragonGirl (May 28, 2016)

I think Momoshiki would win

Madara fought Teen Naruto and Sasuke, whom were weaker than they currently are 12 years later. As adults they were having a tough time with Momoshiki (kinshiki) absorbed. So if two more experienced and stronger versions of the duo were struggling then of course Madara would lose.
Momoshiki is the perfect combatant for Madara. Momo can literally counter all of Madara's techniques. 

1. Madara's limbo clones can be tracked with Momo's Rinnegan. Even if Momo cant see with his hand Rinnegan he can probably use them As some type of tracker/detector for the clones.

2. All of Madara's attack can be absorbed and doubled by my Momo. 

3. Lava Golem summon had to be taken down by a fusion Biju Mode Susanoo Kage Naruto and adult Sasuke. I doubt Madara had that kind of firepower unless he had Susanoo, which becomes u accessible once you become host for the Juubi.

4. Kaguya was preparing a army for Momoshiki and Kinshiki, she probably knew they could fuse or one could be absorbed. If Kaguya was cautious then Madara is dead meat. Kaguya should be like 10, Momoshiki (Kinshiki absorbed) like a 9, Madara like a 7, and regular Momo like 5 and Kinshiki 4.


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## ARGUS (May 28, 2016)

Madara wins this

 -- Massive barrage of CT raining on momoshiki means that he gets turned to paste.
Any attempts of TBB would just be stopped by Limbo or ST 

 -- Madara can absorb chakra from the IT victims and if he does, momoshiki is gone 

If we power scale then we have 

Kaguya > Jin Hagoormo >> Non Jin hago >= 3rd eye Madara > momoshiki > rest

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## blackguyinpinksuit (May 28, 2016)

There was already a thread on this why necro this one. 

Anyway it's the same result as the other thread. A serious CT turns momoshiki to a splat on the floor since he can't absorb it. Limbo can also multiply the strength of the attack if need be. Lol at the necromancer bringing up that golem like it can kill an immortal madara. The only purpose that pile of rocks have in this match is being food for a CT satellite.


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## SuperDragonGirl (May 28, 2016)

Like I said before Momoshiki (Kinshiki absorbed) wins. 3 Eyes Madara had trouble with earlier less experienced  versions of Naruto and Sasuke, yet as adults, they were both nearly recktd by Momo.
Who's to say Momo can't absorb the Limbo Clones and use it against him, or in fact absorb some of the biju inside of Madara making himself stronger and Madara weaker. 
I 8/10 see Momoshiki and Madara firing ninjutsu back and north and absorbing them with Momoshiki's attacks becoming stronger. Then once a opening would appear Momo could use this jutsu as a diversion Here's one link turn Madara into fruit and eat him.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (May 28, 2016)

3 eyes madara never fought naruto and sasuke directly. He never got serious and only used CT as a distraction and only taijutsu with his limbo.

How does momo see limbo when he doesn't use his rinnegan to see. They're in the fucking palm of his hand. Even he could see them the clones can just hang back and spam moves to prevent being absorbed. Limbo's amplifying madara's offense and being able to switch with him anytime FTG style is something momo can't stop.

Ain't gonna be no back and forth nothin since madara won't give momo a ninjutsu he can absorb. You just expect momo to suck a meteor up in his rinnegan or some shit. If madara has access to IT victims chakra it gets worse but i won't really go there since i don't know if OP intended for him to be able to use that here.

Absorbing his tailed beast chakra or turning him to a fruit . Is madara gonna be just standing there watching him do this in your scenario? Don't resort to desperation because you realize elemental moves can't kill a immortal.


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## Android (May 29, 2016)

LOL@ madara not fighting naruto and sasuke seriously when he was getting bitch slapped , and had to run tog his other rinnegan 
LOL@ momoshiki can't see the limbo when he has a fucking rinnegan in his head 
LOL@ limbo being a threat when they were getting smacked by naruto's clones 
LOL@ madara who got blitzed by sasuke's ST jutsu , while momoshiki was able to slap an adult sasuke a mile away when he tried to do the same thing to him 
LOL@ momoshiki not using his own CT or just flying out of it's away
inb4 someone says he can't use CT 
I can go all day , but this is enuff right now


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## sanninme rikudo (May 29, 2016)

If Madara actually utilized the Rinnegan to its full capabilities he's taking it. 

The weakest variant of Tendo was able to level a village, imagine what 3 eyed Madara can do with the tech.


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## SuperDragonGirl (May 29, 2016)

I'mhttp://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Wood_Release:_Wood_Flow_Spears


cctr9 said:


> LOL@ madara not fighting naruto and sasuke seriously when he was getting bitch slapped , and had to run tog his other rinnegan
> LOL@ momoshiki can't see the limbo when he has a fucking rinnegan in his head
> LOL@ limbo being a threat when they were getting smacked by naruto's clones
> LOL@ madara who got blitzed by sasuke's ST jutsu , while momoshiki was able to slap an adult sasuke a mile away when he tried to do the same thing to him
> ...





cctr9 said:


> LOL@ madara not fighting naruto and sasuke seriously when he was getting bitch slapped , and had to run tog his other rinnegan
> LOL@ momoshiki can't see the limbo when he has a fucking rinnegan in his head
> LOL@ limbo being a threat when they were getting smacked by naruto's clones
> LOL@ madara who got blitzed by sasuke's ST jutsu , while momoshiki was able to slap an adult sasuke a mile away when he tried to do the same thing to him
> ...




THIS

I agree


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## Shining Force (May 30, 2016)

This match is a good one and quite inconclusive. Mainly because we didn't get to see three-eyed Madara's full capabilities.

-2-eyed Madara was stronger than Naruto and Sasuke back then and 3-eyed Madara was personally going to finish them off, but the duo got stronger at VotE fight. 

-Post-Absorption Momoshiki requires both current duo to combine their strength together. So he should be stronger than 2-eyed Madara, but I don't know how would he compare with 3-eyed Madara.


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## Raiken (May 30, 2016)

*Momoshiki stands no chance.*

Instead of attempting to become like Kaguya Madara's way, who as a Hagaromo descendant managed to through certain means awaken his Chakra and awaken Rinnegan, proceed to absorb Kaguya's 10 Tailed state within themselves. Taking the "Hagaromo" route towards gaining that kind of power. Momoshiki was trying to take the original "Kaguya" route to obtain that kind of power, by eating a Shinju Chakra Fruit like the one Kaguya ate.
The Shinju on the planet Momoshiki was on however had not absorbed enough from it's host world to create another Shinju Chakra Fruit. So his plan was to absorb what power he could from that worlds Shinju, which resulted in two Rinnegan, one in each palm. Then set about to go to Earth, and gather the 9 Bijuu's Chakra and input that Chakra into that Shinju, so that it would become complete and spawn it's Chakra fruit, which he would eat and then become as powerful or more powerful than Kaguya.

People misinterpret the idea of him being a threat greater than Kaguya. He had the "potential" to be a threat greater than Kaguya, but failed. Sure he was still powerful as an Otsutsuki who had absorbed power from that Incomplete Shinju. But a far-cry from Kaguya level. You think the 5 Kage excluding Naruto would have stood a chance against him if he was close to Kaguya level at that point.

Momoshiki who possessed what is dubbed by Hagaromo's descendants as "Six Paths Sage Chakra" though absorbing power from the Incomplete Shinju, Dual Rinnegan and some kind of Sage Transformation after absorbing Kinshiki's Chakra, which makes sense since he likely possessed Chakra originating from the Incomplete Shinju.
So yeah, he was powerful, but he wasn't a Juubi Jinchuuriki, nor had he eat a Shinju Chakra Fruit. He is not Kaguya level, not by any means, and 3 eyed Madara is not far behind Kaguya.

Kaguya > 3 eyed Shinju-JJ Madara > 2 eyed Shinju-JJ Madara > 1 eyed Shinju-JJ Madara => 1 eyed JJ Madara = Sage Transformation Momoshiki > JJ Obito > Momoshiki = 2 eyed SM Madara >> SM Hashirama > Kinshiki

Normal Momoshiki, and definitely Kinshiki, do not belong in God Tier. JJ Obito is the gatekeeper to God Tier, and only the Transformed Momoshiki can get through the gates.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## ARGUS (May 30, 2016)

^youre underestimating momoshiki 
And that's odd, considering some clowns think he's actually above Kaguya 

1 eyed Madara was and will never be even close to momoshikis level


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## SuperDragonGirl (May 30, 2016)

Shining Force said:


> This match is a good one and quite inconclusive. Mainly because we didn't get to see three-eyed Madara's full capabilities.
> 
> -2-eyed Madara was stronger than Naruto and Sasuke back then and 3-eyed Madara was personally going to finish them off, but the duo got stronger at VotE fight.
> 
> -Post-Absorption Momoshiki requires both current duo to combine their strength together. So he should be stronger than 2-eyed Madara, but I don't know how would he compare with 3-eyed Madara.


I think that's kind of preposterous to think. 2 eyes Madara wasn't stronger than Naruto and Sasuke. 
For one Madara was running away from them the whole fight, yet Madara is a offensive type fighter. So he would not run if he didn't think he would be in trouble.
Secondly 2 eyes Madara's limbo clones were getting smacked around by Naruto's shadow clones. So limbo wouldn't help him not wood giant meteors which were all one shotted by biju rasenshuriken and Sasuks's PS. 
Honestly Naruto was holding his OWN against Kaguya for some time while Sasuke was teleported away, he even managed to get a few blows on her. Kaguya is stated to be much more powerful than 3 eyes Madara. So if he holding his own against a stronger oppenent him and Sasuke together would reckt Madara with 2 eyes. 
Even if they didn't technically beat Madara they were eventually going to the way the battle was going. Six Paths is more versatile than Madara, he didn't even use all of his new technique's in their battle. You seriously can't believe Madara would survive this attack  which distorted the chakra of Kaguya but also did damage to her. 
I see this all and all going to Naruto and Sasuke. It's just Madara survived through intellect and Plot, he would not have defeated them if it were two vs 1 like in Obito fight. Instead Madara was keeping his distance the entire battle and spamming long range attacks.
3 eyes Madara is hard to judge we don't see him do anything but activate IT, he could possibly be Hagoromo level, but then again to be one shotted by Black Zetsu like that he shouldn't be a ton of a lot more stronger than his 2 eyes form. Nonetheless I don't think any form of Madara could beat the boys together maybe seperate but not together. 
All of Madara's jutsu can be countered especially stuff like Limbo which the real Naruto wouldn't have to deal with, his clones were a match for them. Plus Madara can only summon up to like 12 clones Naruto can spam 1000 shadow clones in six paths mode and it doesn't even tire him out as he was fighting in six paths mode the entire Kaguya fight and Madara fight. Naruto definitely has the stamina for a fight with 2 eyes Madara.


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## Android (May 30, 2016)

Cryorex said:


> *Momoshiki stands no chance.*


Log out


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## sanninme rikudo (May 30, 2016)

When Madara utilizes the Rinnegan to its full extent, a Rikudo style CST would not only change Momo's area code, but it would scatter his bones in the wind and expunge everything in sight.

Reactions: Like 1


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## SuperDragonGirl (May 30, 2016)

If Kage Naruto and Adult Sasukue can fight evenly with Madara, Super Momoshiki would kill Madara or possibly absorb him. 

Not to brag but honestly Madara has long since been surpassed. Momoshiki and Kinshiki are like Vegeta and Nappa leaving Kaguya on earth to sprout the Shinju tree, and sprout the fruit. She did exactly that but ate the fruit herself, and planned to turn against Momo and Kinshiki so she built a army. 
Momoshiki was dangerous enough and powerful enough for Kaguya to fear him and try to form an army to try and fight him. Kaguya, the strongest person in Narutoverse feared this man. And not to mention his feats are better than Madara's.

Absorbs anything he can, reflects it back stronger. Hell that fire ball he used nearly one shot Sasuke as a Adult who nearly fodderizes any version of Madara. 
Saying 3 eyes Madara is that much more powerful than teen Sasuke and Naruto is even a stretch, let alone Kage and Adult versions.

Sasuke speedblitz Madara ass and cut him half on some future trunks shit. He ran like a bitch and had to activate IT.

As adults they are leagues more powerful than they were as teenagers. At the end of the war they were competing with Kaguya who is so much more powerful than 3 eyes Madara. The fact that they weren't curbstomped, held their own, and managed to seal her means that 3 eyes Madara wouldn't have been a problem in the long run. 
So naturally they would be stronger than they were 12 years ago having Madara on the ropes.
If Naruto and Sasuke are stronger and fighting Momoshiki who had them nearly outclassed individually, it's obvious Super Momoshiki is stronger than someone from 12 years ago.
Tell me what feats Madara had to even out him on adult Naruto and sasuke's level ?

Sasuke's power is at least x2 as strong if not higher. He can teleport through dimensions as adult, when he couldn't as a teen. Naruto has more experience and both halves of Kurama and six paths mode. Yet they were getting their asses handed by Super Momoshiki 

Kaguya- 15
JJ Hagoromo- 12
Super Momoshiki- 11
Adult Naruto/Sasuke- 10.5
3 Eyes JJ Madara- 9.5
Teen Naruto- 9.5
Teen Sasuke- 9
Prime Hagoromo- 9
2 Eyes JJ Madara- 9
Momoshiki
Indra / Ashura
1 Eye JJ Tree Madara- 8
Kinshiki
Prime Hamura- 7.5
8 Gates Guy- 7
1 Eye JJ Madara- 7
Old Hagoromo- 6.8
MS Rinne JJ Obito- 6.5
Juubi- 6

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 3


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## ARGUS (May 31, 2016)

> Hagoromo- 12
> Super Momoshiki- 11
> Adult Naruto/Sasuke- 10.5
> 3 Eyes JJ Madara- 9.5
> ...


This Is a terrible list. 

Prime hagoromo below teen Naruto and Sasuke? When he was the one who gave them his power. And when he has both of their powers?

Prime Hamura whose on par with prime hagoromo, being on the same level as fkn Kinshiki? 

Teen Naruto and Sasuke being above 2 Rinnegan Jin Madara when it was stated that they both were needed to take him out? 

8 gates guy above old hagoromo who supposedly gave his halves to Naruto and Sasuke? 

These are bad flaws

Reactions: Like 1


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## blackguyinpinksuit (May 31, 2016)

What's up with all these numbers and shit is that how y'all do tier list now . 

Not to mention that bitch filling her post with all sorts of shit that has nothing to do with momoshiki vs madara. Can't take nobody in this thread saying momoshiki win seriously.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Raiken (May 31, 2016)

At most Momoshiki can go up against 1 eyed JJ Madara (pre-Shinju absorption).

1 Rinnegan JJ Madara = Transformed Momoshiki

Obviously in regards to Doujutsu, Momoshiki is superior, he has 3 Rinnegan as opposed to 1.
However Madara's Sage Power is far superior to Momoshiki's. Madara has a Perfect(Compared to Obito's Imperfect) Six Paths Sage Transformation, from absorbing the Juubi, Kaguya's Transformed Form, into himself.
Overall they're around equal.

After Madara absorbs the Shinju however, he becomes even harder to kill.
Then gaining Dual Rinnegan, his Doujutsu starts climbing up to Momoshiki's level too, on top of his Sage Powers already being far superior.
Then when he had 3 eyes, 2 Rinnegan and a Rinne Sharingan, even Madara's Doujutsu is superior to Momoshiki's.

3 Eyed JJ Madara murder stomps Momoshiki to a point that it's not even funny.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (May 31, 2016)

Kinshinki 6 spots above the juubi? 

My eyes


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## SuperDragonGirl (May 31, 2016)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> What's up with all these numbers and shit is that how y'all do tier list now .
> 
> Not to mention that bitch filling her post with all sorts of shit that has nothing to do with momoshiki vs madara. Can't take nobody in this thread saying momoshiki win seriously.



Who are u calling a bitch u dumbfuck


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## SuperDragonGirl (May 31, 2016)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Kinshinki 6 spots above the juubi?
> 
> My eyes


Kinshiki can slice the Shinju tree in half while heavily damaged. The juubi's final form = Shinju tree it's really not some ordinary tree you can just slice up. Naruto using I total six paths power sliced the tree with lava rasenshuriken. 
You are clearly a dumb fuck who can't read the numbers. I never even put a number by Momoshiki or Kinshiki name lol.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (May 31, 2016)

SuperDragonGirl said:


> Who are u calling a bitch u dumbfuck


The only goofy bitch in the thread obviously .

But yeah keeping yapping you nasty sore lip thot i ain't got time for all your nonsense.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Raiken (May 31, 2016)

Such hostile, many rage. Plz calm down


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## Android (May 31, 2016)

Cryorex said:


> At most Momoshiki can go up against 1 eyed JJ Madara (pre-Shinju absorption).
> 
> 1 Rinnegan JJ Madara = Transformed Momoshiki
> 
> ...


still posting this nonsense as i can see eh ? 


blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Can't take nobody in this thread saying momoshiki win seriously.


Let's all look for fucks to give

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## SuperDragonGirl (May 31, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> still postin this nonsense as i can see eh ?
> Let's all look for fucks to give


Right exactly I moved from movie longue to come here and be disrespected and complained at by loser bitch mfs all because I said Momoshiki would win against Madara. Lmfao Madara had long been surpassed these guys are butthurt

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## Android (May 31, 2016)

SuperDragonGirl said:


> Right exactly I moved from movie longue to come here and be disrespected and complained at by loser bitch mfs all because I said Momoshiki would win against Madara. Lmfao Madara had long been surpassed these guys are butthurt


could not have agreed more

Reactions: Like 1


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## Raiken (May 31, 2016)

Madara >>> Momoshiki

:^) :^) :^) 

FACT

:^) :^) :^)


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## Android (May 31, 2016)

Cryorex said:


> FANFICTION


 fixed


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## SuperDragonGirl (May 31, 2016)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> The only goofy bitch in the thread obviously .
> 
> But yeah keeping yapping you nasty sore lip thot i ain't got time for all your nonsense.


You've been on here since 2012 and you have probably been on here complaining and bullying all this time, how ignorant of you to call me a bitch when you are probably never going to call your mother that or probably grandma or sister. You really have an anger problem what's wrong you can tell us about it. 
What's next ? Cunt, hoe, Thot, slut, broad ? Grow up. These words are immature and childish you clearly don't have the intellect for me worth even holding a debate let alone normal conversation with.
Also Black guy in a pink suit is a very feminine name


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## Raiken (May 31, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> fixed


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## Android (May 31, 2016)




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## blackguyinpinksuit (May 31, 2016)

SuperDragonGirl said:


> Blub blub blub


Listen you should just move on. I don't care if you feel disrespected or whatever. I said what i said and i'm satisfied. 

Now if you will stop quoting me it'd be greatly appreciated.


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## SuperDragonGirl (May 31, 2016)

Cryorex said:


> Madara >>> Momoshiki
> 
> :^) :^) :^)
> 
> ...



I respect your opinion but mines still is Super Momoshiki > 3 eyes Madara > Momoshiki 

The fact that Naruto speedblitzed Kaguya and Sasuke and him were holding their own against Kaguya means that they would eventually out power Madara with 3 eyes. 3 eyes Madara doesn't even have any feats except getting one shotted by Black Zetsu. Which is outliner of course, but still.

If teen Naruto and Sasuke could take out Kaguya what makes you think Madara 3 eyes would be any more difficult. Kaguya vs Madara 3 eyes= Kaguya the winner obviously. It was more like Naruto wouldn't of beat Kaguya without sasuke, not in the Madara situation. I don't think 3 eyes increased his power exponentially or even at Kaguya's level. 
It's really ABC logic. C being teen Naruto and Sasuke B being Adults Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto as adult could beat a person who could cut the moon. 12 years later he would be much more powerful than he was when be beat that person that could cut the moon. This same 12 years later version of Naruto was having a hard time with super Momoshiki. In all honesty adult Sasuke and Kage Naruto could defeat 3 eyes Madara indivually by now. Yet they needed to work together to defeat Super Momoshiki. By powerscaling Momo is just in another league than 3 eyes madara.

By this point I doubt the 3rd eye was a big jump, because after he got both eyes he ran like a bitch. He knew he couldn't win against them. His only option was IT! His power was explicitly said to be much inferior to Kaguya's.

Plus when you really look at the condition Naruto and Sasuke were in they would've eventually won the fight had not black zetsu one shot Madara. They were fighting Madara, Kaguya, and even had enough energy to fight in a gigantic battle between themselves before the day was over. That's a lot of stamina. I highly doubt they boys would have run on E in their fight with Madara. Plus they didn't even use all their abilities in their fight with Madara. They had just got their powers. But already whopping Madara's ass with them. Naruto used more techniques against Kaguya then he did Madara. It's almost like Naruto wasn't even using his full power against Madara. 
The databpok even says that this is one of the most powerful jutsu of all time  and Naruto doesn't even use this against Madara. If it fucked Kaguya up I think it would really fuck Madara up.
Not to mention this jutsu which was a trump card

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Android (May 31, 2016)

This is madara getting fodderized by TEEN sasuke's Amenotejikara 


like a helpless B 
and this is momoshiki reacting and fodderizing ADULT sasuke's Amenotejikara 

Try for once to use manga/move facts Cryorex

Reactions: Like 2


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## SuperDragonGirl (Jun 1, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> This is madara getting fodderized by TEEN sasuke's Amenotejikara
> 
> 
> like a helpless B
> ...


THIS


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## Trojan (Jun 1, 2016)

This thread is still going on? 

Momoshiki fodderize Asspulldara, how is this even debatable? 

People are still living their fantasies that Asspulldara (and Hashirama) cannot be surpassed? 

there is a huge different between a bug that got killed by Kaguya's will, and between someone whom she was afraid off.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kai (Jun 1, 2016)

I have trouble fathoming Momoshiki possessing power greater than the collection of three Rinnegan and the Ten Tails in one being. The path to power, especially towards the end of the manga, was about acquiring the right eyes and beasts and putting the pieces together. Madara and Hagoromo are the closest to Kaguya in that regard. 

Naruto and Sasuke requiring Yin and Yang Seals as the only means for victory is also more impressive to me than being able to defeat Momoshiki by conventional means.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## SuperDragonGirl (Jun 2, 2016)

Kai said:


> I have trouble fathoming Momoshiki possessing power greater than the collection of three Rinnegan and the Ten Tails in one being. The path to power, especially towards the end of the manga, was about acquiring the right eyes and beasts and putting the pieces together. Madara and Hagoromo are the closest to Kaguya in that regard.
> 
> Naruto and Sasuke requiring Yin and Yang Seals as the only means for victory is also more impressive to me than being able to defeat Momoshiki by conventional means.



Naruto and Sasuke would have defeated Madara eventually. The battle was rushed and Madara had to run and defeat to activate IT. Instead of using his new power to spam attacks. Also Naruto and Sasuke weren't scared when Madara got his third eye. They were trembling she fighting Kaguya, yet Kaguya was afraid of Momoshiki. 
Madara is better as a villan and story but Momo just hyped and feat wise stronger than Madara. Momoshiki is on Naruto and Sasuke's level, who high could individually defeat Madara solo by their adult years

Reactions: Friendly 1 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Klue (Jun 2, 2016)

SuperDragonGirl said:


> Momoshiki is on Naruto and Sasuke's level, who high could individually defeat Madara solo by their adult years



Hagoromo gave them a sealing technique to stop Madara. A technique which requires two people.

Yes, I know Hagoromo has both seals, just repeating the information we have to date.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 2, 2016)

Kai said:


> I have trouble fathoming Momoshiki possessing power greater than the collection of three Rinnegan and the Ten Tails in one being. The path to power, especially towards the end of the manga, was about acquiring the right eyes and beasts and putting the pieces together. Madara and Hagoromo are the closest to Kaguya in that regard.
> 
> Naruto and Sasuke requiring Yin and Yang Seals as the only means for victory is also more impressive to me than being able to defeat Momoshiki by conventional means.



None of this means anything as Momoshiki was straight-up declared twice to be stronger than Kaguya. Once in the Gaiden, and again in the movie. Also also implied to be by her own volition by virtue of constructing a global army just to combat him and Kinshiki.

Feasibly, Madara can't also really do anything to him either because any ninjutsu Madara uses on Momoshiki will be used back on him with a force much stronger than Indra's Arrow/Rikudō: Chō Ōdama Rasenshuriken combined, which is liable to one-shot Madara right from the get-go. What's more is, Madara won't hold a candle to Momoshiki in even taijutsu since the former is equal to teenage Naruto in that regard at best, while Momoshiki dukes it out with adult Naruto/Sasuke simultaneously.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kai (Jun 3, 2016)

Momoshiki was never declared to be stronger than Kaguya, even once. Might want to do a fact check there.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 3, 2016)

Threat greater than Kaguya.

Stated once in the movie, and stated again in the Gaiden. I don't know what your interpretation of 'greater threat' is, but generally in reality, it means to be stronger than. Maybe read the manga one more time before doing this whole debating shtick man, it isn't really for you lmao.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Android (Jun 3, 2016)

greater threat =/= greater power
momoshiki was outright stated to be gathering chakra to gain the same power as kaguya 
so he can't be stronger than her , makes no sense


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## ARGUS (Jun 3, 2016)

Momoshiki envisioned Kaguya and idolized her so much that he wanted to replicate everything she did 

These guys were total chumps in front of her given the fact that all they did was try and be her 

As for threat being bigger. Well Ofcourse Kaguya was wary of them when they were doing the exact same thing she was. The crazy woman was driven to madness after her own sons inherited her chakra

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blu-ray (Jun 3, 2016)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Threat greater than Kaguya.
> 
> Stated once in the movie, and stated again in the Gaiden. I don't know what your interpretation of 'greater threat' is, but generally in reality, it means to be stronger than. Maybe read the manga one more time before doing this whole debating shtick man, it isn't really for you lmao.


That was just a translation error though. Sauce said he could threaten even Kaguya, not that he was a threat greater than Kaguya, and there's a world of difference between the two since even Naruto and Sasuke were threats to her. The movie never calls him stronger than her either, and makes it clear they were threats because they were after her fruit, not because they were already stronger than her. 



ARGUS said:


> Momoshiki envisioned Kaguya and idolized her so much that he wanted to replicate everything she did



I don't recall him ever idolizing her, at least not in the sense of admiration or anything like that. He simply wanted the power she possessed. Rest is correct though.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Raiken (Jun 3, 2016)

End of the day though, Momoshiki isn't beating JJ Madara, transformed or not.

Tri-Rinnegan Transformed Momoshkik might be a match for 1 Rinnegan JJ Madara (Pre-Shinju Absorption), basically the weakest incarnation of JJ Madara, but that's it.

I'd say Tri-Rinnegan Transformed Momoshiki could beat JJ Obito though.


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## Android (Jun 3, 2016)

Cryorex said:


> Tri-Rinnegan Transformed Momoshkik might be a match for 1 Rinnegan JJ Madara


Da-hell ?? 
might beat ?? 
1 rinnegan juubi jin madara gets violated by momoshiki , as everyone already told you


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## Raiken (Jun 3, 2016)

Since I personally think that, Transformed Tri-Rinnegan Momoshiki *VS* Rinne Sharingan/Dual-Rinnegan Six Paths Sage Transformation-Shinju Absorbed Madara, from the other thread was a stomp in Madara's favour, I've made this thread.

So go at it...
*
Scenario 1:*
Dual-Rinnegan Momoshiki *VS* Dual-Rinnegan Sage Mode Madara _"Cannot use Gedo Mazou"_

*Scenario 2:*
Transformed Tri-Rinnegan Momoshiki *VS* Single-Rinnegan Six Paths Sage Transformation Madara

*Scenario 3:*
Transformed Tri-Rinnegan Momoshiki VS Dual-Rinnegan Six Paths Sage Transformation Madara

_"No version of Six Paths Sage Transformation Madara has the Shinju absorbed." _


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## Raiken (Jun 3, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Da-hell ??
> might beat ??
> 1 rinnegan juubi jin madara gets violated by momoshiki , as everyone already told you


Actually a few don't believe that.


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## Android (Jun 3, 2016)

I'll just drop this right here 
madara getting fodderized by teen sasuke 


Momoshiki fodderizing ADULT sasuke


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## Raiken (Jun 3, 2016)

Six Paths Sage Chakra Mode Naruto w/ Hagaromo's Yang Chakra >>> 100% BSM Adult Naruto
Tomoe-Rinnegan Sasuke w/ Hagaromo's Yin Chakra >> Tomoe-Rinnegan Adult Sasuke

The Madara/Kaguya Battle versions of Naruto and Sasuke are more powerful than the adult versions of themselves.

Or could you not tell by their performance against Shin. :^) If they were as powerful as you say, surely they would have lol blitzed.

Also, Madara had lost all but 1 of his Gudoudama's against Naruto and Sasuke, a Juubi Jinchuuriki's main defensive and offensive arsenal.

So yeah, Naruto AND Sasuke together were outperforming a nerfed Madara.
A Naruto and Sasuke that are more powerful than their Adult incarnations.


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## Android (Jun 3, 2016)

Cryorex said:


> Tomoe-Rinnegan Sasuke w/ Hagaromo's Yin Chakra > Tomoe-Rinnegan Adult Sasuke


You have completely lost your mind 



Cryorex said:


> 100% BSM Adult Naruto


for the last fucking time 
it's six fucking paths sage mode , " _rikudou sennin modo_ " , R.S.M
do us a favore please , and don't ever talk about naruto and sasuke's rikudou powers
ever again
at all

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Raiken (Jun 3, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> You have completely lost your mind
> 
> for the last fucking time
> it's six fucking paths sage mode , " _rikudou sennin modo_ " , R.S.M
> ...


You're wrong, but I'm okay with that. If you don't want to talk about it, don't post in my thread. :^)


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## Android (Jun 3, 2016)

Cryorex said:


> You're wrong, but I'm okay with that. If you don't want to talk about it, don't post in my thread. :^)


oh boy 
Bijuu Sage Mode 


Rikudou Sage Mode , aka '' six paths sage mode ''  :


in short  :
crossed pupils+eyeliner = Bijuu Sage Mode, 
crossed pupils = Rikudou Sage Mode

you don't have to be smart , i just spoon fed you 
I don't care if it hurts you , just stop what you're doing


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## Raiken (Jun 3, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> oh boy
> Bijuu Sage Mode
> 
> 
> ...


I've already proved to you in the past with a lot of evidence that that belief is wrong. I don't need to do it again.


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## Android (Jun 3, 2016)

Cryorex said:


> I've already proved to you in the past with a lot of evidence that that belief is wrong. I don't need to do it again.


> I spoon fed him with manga/movie facts , with freaking pictures 
> I gave him 2 hours to look for anything to sustain his claims with any legit material 
> he posts nothing 
> he still has the nerve to say he's right and people/manga/movies/databook are all wrong   ck

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Raiken (Jun 3, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> > I spoon fed him with manga/movie facts , with freaking pictures
> > I gave him 2 hours to look for anything to sustain his claims with any legit material
> > he posts nothing
> > he still has the nerve to say he's right and people/manga/movies/databook are all wrong   ck


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## Klue (Jun 3, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> I'll just drop this right here
> madara getting fodderized by teen sasuke
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



Sasuke's timing was perfect. How was Madara to prevent him self from taking a hit in that situation?


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## Android (Jun 3, 2016)

Klue said:


> Sasuke's timing was perfect. How was Madara to prevent him self from taking a hit in that situation?


we know for a fact from the DB that non cloaked-RSM naruto speed and reaction are on par with JJ madara 
and RSM naruto is even faster than JJ madara since he's using six paths senjutsu + a kurama chakra mode 
RSM barely reacted to teen sasuke amenotejikara , which means if sasuke did the same thing to JJ madara he will blitz him 100 % 
now momoshiki is > adult RSM naruto > manga RSM naruto in speed and reactions
and he was able to react to adult sasuke's amenotejikara low diff , or like ARGUS says , shit diff


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## Kai (Jun 3, 2016)

Most if not all BDers who have commented on this fight would think the strongest incarnation of Madara would be the best match against Momoshiki, win or lose.

I'm merging this thread with the other where you can elaborate your points about Madara's other powers/forms.


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## Raiken (Jun 3, 2016)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Momoshiki transformed or not...

STANDS NO CHANCE

Against Madara with the Rinne Sharingan, Dual Rinnegan and Perfect(when compared to Obito's Imperfect) Six Paths Sage Transformation, a transformation which is augmented further by the absorption of the Shinju. Momoshiki is so outmatched here...

Momoshiki gained his power from absorbing the Chakra inside a failed Shinju on that dead Planet.
A Shinju that failed to absorb the amount of energy it needed to manifest it's Chakra Fruit.
He has two Rinnegan as a result of that, in addition to having the Byakugan.
Because Shinju Chakra by nature is essentially Six Paths Sage Chakra, Momoshiki also has the ability to fly (I believe you need so much of it to be able to fly, for example Obito gained some Six Paths Sage Chakra from Madara, but not enough to be able to fly.)

HOWEVER... Madara absorbed Kaguya in her Juubi state, someone who successfully gained the power of Earth's Shinju Chakra Fruit, gained control of that power and gained a Perfect Six Paths Sage Transformation. In addition to having a Dual Rinnegan of his own and then awakening the Rinne Sharingan, the most powerful Doujutsu in existence.

How does the power of Kaguya inside Madara amount to less than what Momoshiki absorbed from a failed Shinju???

Rinne Sharingan/Dual-Rinnegan Shinju-JJ Madara > Dual-Rinnegan Shinju-JJ Madara > Single-Rinnegan Shinju-JJ Madara => Single-Rinnegan JJ Madara => Transformed Rinnegan Momoshiki > JJ Obito => Rinnegan Momoshiki


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## SuperDragonGirl (Jun 3, 2016)

Cryorex said:


> Since I personally think that, Transformed Tri-Rinnegan Momoshiki *VS* Rinne Sharingan/Dual-Rinnegan Six Paths Sage Transformation-Shinju Absorbed Madara, from the other thread was a stomp in Madara's favour, I've made this thread.
> 
> So go at it...
> *
> ...



Madara loses in all scenarios
It's like Buu Saga Goku and Vegeta Vs Cell. It's an enemy of the past who they surpassed. Madara fought teen Naruto and Sasuke Super Momo is fighting adult Naruto and Sasuke. There is a gap in age difference and in power between the opponents they are fighting. If JJ Madara would've one shotted Naruto and Sasuke in their teens then I would say yes he could possibly be on Super Momo level. But that wasn't the case, as Madara was losing the fight between Naruto and Sasuke. Even indivually both Naruto and Sasuke were cutting Madara up and beating up his limbo clones. Even with dual Rinnegan he wasn't a problem as Naruto and Sasuke handled his meteorites + limbo clones easily. The two weren't even using their full power when fighting Madara. There are plenty of techniques Naruto doesn't even use until he battles Kaguya. Saving the best for last. So it's very possible the two weren't going full throttle.
We don't the extent of Madara Rinnesharingan. He literally does nothing but activate IT with it and gets sucker stabbed through the chest by Black Zetsu. 
Super Momo can track Madara's clones with his Rinnegan hands acting as a Radar, he can summon giant lava creature with a fire Phoniex type summon, spam lava explosion attacks that nearly recktd a adult Sasuke and Sasuke is stronger than JJ Madara all versions. 


Momo is a more advanced version of Madara 
- both can absorb jutsu but Momo can make said jutsu stronger and fire it back.
Too much time has passed and Madara is a threat of the past. He would give Toneri a run for his money but Super Momo would destroy Madara 7/10 mid diff. 
Just look what he did to Sasuke


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## King Shark (Jun 4, 2016)

I still think a hypothetical ST from madara would turn momo into paste but ya know.

No feats.


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## ARGUS (Jun 5, 2016)

The Orange Hokage said:


> I still think a hypothetical ST from madara would turn momo into paste but ya know.
> 
> No feats.


If a rasengan was able to kill him 
Then a CST from Jin Madara would paste him


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## Isaiah13000 (Jun 5, 2016)

It's still utterly ridiculous that til this day people believe that the man who got his ass kicked by teenage RSM Naruto (without using his full power) and Rinnegan Sasuke (before he mastered his Rinnegan) is able to beat a man who was competing with and even overwhelming adult RSM Naruto (Who now has 100% of Kurama) and Rinnegan Sasuke (Who now has greater mastery of his Rinnegan). Juubidara doesn't use genjutsu, his ninjutsu is absorbed and turned back against him with several times the power, and his taijutsu isn't good enough (he got fucking overwhelmed by a weaker version of Naruto and Sasuke in it). This debate is so stupid it's laughable, the only reason people even argue this is because they somehow think Naruto and Sasuke lost Hagoromo's chakra (even though Naruto clearly still has RSM and Sasuke is capable of imitating Kaguya when it comes to dimensional travel, something that can even effect her own godly reserves), or they downplay Momoshiki and Kinshiki because the new Gokage were able to briefly face them (although they did pretty much nothing and got curbstomped the instant they both got serious). Regardless of what anyone thinks, the series made it clear who is stronger. So I'm gonna go with the guy who is regarded as a threat greater than Kaguya (who she made an entire army to combat) compared to the guy who was only "close" to reaching Kaguya's own power. Y'all can believe whatever you want.


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## Trojan (Jun 5, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> If a rasengan was able to kill him
> Then a CST from Jin Madara would paste him


Says you? 
JJ Asspulldara died from Black Zetsu who stabbed him like a bitch.
Yet, Asspulldara was taken on Gai's punches and kick who obviously had much more power into them, no? 

Also, Narudo's Rassengan is stronger than anything JJ Asspulldara showed anyway.


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## ARGUS (Jun 5, 2016)

Hussain said:


> Says you?
> JJ Asspulldara died from Black Zetsu who stabbed him like a bitch.
> Yet, Asspulldara was taken on Gai's punches and kick who obviously had much more power into them, no?
> *
> Also, Narudo's Rassengan is stronger than anything JJ Asspulldara showed anyway.*


This is sig worthy thanks man 

And No. 
CT, CST, PS, sword of nonoboku, IT, shin Jukai Kotan, limbo, and juubidama all are things that are far above a measly rasengan

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 2


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## Trojan (Jun 5, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> This is sig worthy thanks man
> 
> And No.
> CT, CST, PS, sword of nonoboku, IT, shin Jukai Kotan, limbo, and juubidama all are things that are far above a measly rasengan




Show me anything from the trash you listed that able to do this


He literally sent Momoshiki to the fucking space. 
After it devoured his attack


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## Kai (Jun 5, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> So I'm gonna go with the guy who is regarded as a threat greater than Kaguya (who she made an entire army to combat) compared to the guy who was only "close" to reaching Kaguya's own power. Y'all can believe whatever you want.


He was an "existence that threatened even Kaguya", not a threat greater than Kaguya.


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## King Shark (Jun 6, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> If a rasengan was able to kill him
> Then a CST from Jin Madara would paste him


Maybe.



Hussain said:


> Show me anything from the trash you listed that able to do this
> 
> 
> He literally sent Momoshiki to the fucking space.
> After it devoured his attack


idk if this is relevant but iirc momo had taken a bunch of pills made from kurama's chakra. So boruto's rasengan was strong enough to overpower a rasengan powered by kurama chakra.


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## uchihakil (Jun 15, 2016)

People keep saying naruto and sasuke beat kaguya, no, it was basically team 7, DMS kakashi giving the final strategy in beating her, sakura helping in bringing back sasuke from another dimension with the help of kamui powers, obito dying for naruto, they did'nt beat kaguya alone, they could'nt beat her, at first she did'nt even have intent to kill, sheesh, y'all should stop overrating naruto and sasuke, kakashi in that fight had been a great help towards the end, warping kaguya's chakra arms and all, dividing her attention, sakura punching kaguya (that was an asspull to beat kaguya as kaguya is a sensor with 360 vision I don't know how the hell she missed sakura)


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## uchihakil (Jun 15, 2016)

My say on this matchup is 3 eyed jj madara > 2 eyed jj madara > momoshiki
Madara is a better immortal which sage seals were required to defeat him as he can't die, while momo died from an chou odama rasengan, basically the youton rasenshuriken that madara survived would wreck momoshiki, I'm positive night moth would to, madara was getting chopped in hald and was regenerating, on top of madara been heavily nerfed, madara's PS would shit on sasuke's bijuu susano because madara's susano would be enhanced by rikudou SENJUTSU and juubi while sasuke's was only enhanced by rikudou chakra and bijuus, + madara has waay more chakra, rikudou senjutsu > rikudou chakra
Momo aint got no sealing techs, none that we know off, none on moon chibaku tensei seal level
madara's limbo clones defeated naruto's clones offpanel as we see madara's clones later on and naruto's clones were no where to be found
Madara can use a continent sized shinra tensei, continent sized CT, and limbo to finish momo all of which can't be absorbed
Knowledge; madara knows rinnegan has preta path, it won't take him two tries to figure out what momos powers are, assuming there is no intel
Madara did'nt get blitzed by sasuke, he let himself get blitzed just like how he let ohnoki grazed him with jinton and how he let lee hit'em
I can go all day, madara is really underrated, there is a reason the arthur said madara was too strong


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