# EA Senior Engineer: ''The Wii U is crap''



## Juub (May 17, 2013)

Huh, they already removed the Tweets...


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## Akira Kurusu (May 17, 2013)

Probably got Adam Oarth'd.


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## Akira Kurusu (May 17, 2013)

OH.MY SIDES.


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## Juub (May 17, 2013)

Oh, didn't see that. Can a mod merge the threads? Or close this one.


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## Death-kun (May 17, 2013)

Prease undastand, and waitu just a ritter ronga.


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## Inuhanyou (May 18, 2013)

well atleast the guy doesnt hide behind excuses and speaks his true thoughts


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## Shirker (May 18, 2013)

Y'know what? The stuff he said is Youtube-comment-level arrogant, but I respect his boldness with the "Pull a SEGA" and "Markets that actually matter" tweets.

Shine on, you beautiful asshole.


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## Geralt of Rivia (May 18, 2013)

He's right. The Wii U is a giant piece of shit.


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## Shirker (May 18, 2013)

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Its lineup isn't what you'd call stellar right now, admittedly.

But he's not in the position to prattle on about it like a 15 year old who watches too much Zero Punctuation.


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## Jake CENA (May 18, 2013)

He's a dumbass for realizing the truth after several months


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## Palpatine (May 18, 2013)

The Wii U basically hasn't even been out a year now. 

Also this should be locked.


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## Akira Kurusu (May 18, 2013)

Geralt of Rivia said:


> He's right. The Wii U is a giant piece of shit.



Just like how the 3DS was suppose to b--oh wait. 



TerminaTHOR said:


> He's a dumbass for realizing the truth after several months



Still called him a dumbass though, which is already truth right there.


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## Canute87 (May 18, 2013)

He seems frustrated like he really wanted to see something different from Nintendo. That crazy anger that shoots up when you see the foolishness a once legendary company is doing.

Quite opposite reaction to the guys at epic.  They just laughed and moved on.


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## Death-kun (May 18, 2013)

lol fired.



Canute87 said:


> He seems frustrated like he really wanted to see something different from Nintendo. That crazy anger that shoots up when you see the foolishness a once legendary company is doing.
> 
> Quite opposite reaction to the guys at epic.  They just laughed and moved on.



Someone looks like he's projecting.


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## Canute87 (May 18, 2013)

Except that I'm not stupid enough to let it cost me my Job. 


Besides how do we know he actually got fired?


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## Death-kun (May 18, 2013)

I think EA erased any affiliation they had with him on their Twitter, and his comments were also taken down.


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## Canute87 (May 18, 2013)

Doesn't mean he got literally fired though.

What he said isn't going to affect EA's rep anymore than their own fucked up decisions over the years already did.

And since many Wii U owners don't really care that EA isn't supporting the system and potential PS4 and 720 owners are going to get whatever good games they bring out in the future,  nothing really changes.

If they fire him he was probably already in the plans to be cut from staff and this was just an interesting convenience for them without having to do more.

They can get rid of him without having to pay him anything and avoid any potential lawsuits.


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## Death-kun (May 18, 2013)

Adam Orth got fired just for telling fans to "Deal with it" on his Twitter concerning the rumors about the 720 being always online. 

It's not farfetched to think this guy will get fired for the slew of hate comments he made. It doesn't matter whether what he said is true or not, the point is that he said them. As a senior engineer of EA Sports, one is expected to have a little more class than going on Twitter and saying things the typical GameFAQs troll says. It's making yourself and the company look bad.


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## Canute87 (May 18, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> Adam Orth got fired just for telling fans to "Deal with it" on his Twitter concerning the rumors about the 720 being always online.
> 
> It's not farfetched to think this guy will get fired for the slew of hate comments he made. It doesn't matter whether what he said is true or not, the point is that he said them. As a senior engineer of EA Sports, one is expected to have a little more class than going on Twitter and saying things the typical GameFAQs troll says. It's making yourself and the company look bad.



THAT is different.

His comment could have had serious effect on Microsoft directly when it came to the reputation in the eyes of the games
which would have affected their sales tremendously given the rumors that were already flying around about the console.

Many people think the Wii U is already crap to begin with and won't boycott EA games based on his comments because it has LITTLE to NO effect to what's going on now.


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## Akira Kurusu (May 18, 2013)

Wouldn't be surprised if EA won the third "worst company in america" nomination once again this year.


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## Canute87 (May 18, 2013)

Well if they are moving away from their online passes back to the traditional movement i guess not.

But if they are making a mobile version of the frostbite engine they just might be moving their online passes to a different area to generate revenue.

The costs are too high that they have obviously decided to focus only on PS4 and 720 which is going to be a very expensive endeavor.  They are going to try something else as long as PS4 has that option in their console.


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## Death-kun (May 18, 2013)

Well, EA is basically acting like the guy doesn't exist anymore, so we'll see if he was actually fired or not.


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## steveht93 (May 18, 2013)

I cannot hate EA. I just like Dat FIFA and battlefield


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 18, 2013)

I really like Fifa but its just crap now. I want another company to make something better.


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## Shirker (May 18, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> I cannot hate EA. I just like Dat FIFA and battlefield



The Sims is what currently has my soul. 

Dammit, why'd they have to announce the 4th installment when I'm supposed to be avoiding them?! It better suck, or I'm gonna be pissed.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 18, 2013)

Go play Animal Crossing yeh fucker^

Damn Shirker


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## Shirker (May 18, 2013)

I'd prefer a life simulator that didn't ram cockroaches into my house if I so much as left it alone for a week, thank you.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 18, 2013)

Fine, Ill throw you into the RPG world then. GO BUY FANTASY LIFE.


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## DedValve (May 18, 2013)

Sims 4 will most likely be trash, especially if those teaser sims are any indication of the artstyle they are choosing (oh god it makes me want to vomit).

Also, shit was just flung.


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## steveht93 (May 18, 2013)

Always wondered why people play a game about people living when they are already living. The only thing I enjoy about sims is getting aliens to visit me and setting my sims on fire.


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## Canute87 (May 18, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> Always wondered why people play a game about people living when they are already living. The only thing I enjoy about sims is getting aliens to visit me and setting my sims on fire.



The same reason why people play sports games.

They like to play as other people.

We can't be like lebron, Wade  and Kobe so that's the closest most people can get to them.

As for things like the sims, things building your own little empire is something that many people just like, creating your own rules. 

 That's why i doubt filthy rich people play the sims.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 18, 2013)

Nah we play Harvest Moon to Champagne Supernova mah chigga


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## WolfPrinceKiba (May 18, 2013)

Yeah the Sims is more about living a lifestyle you couldn't afford in real life. Harvest Moon is about living a life you likely wouldn't choose to live in real life but has appeal in experiencing through a game and Animal Crossing is like a more chillax version of real life with animal people.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 18, 2013)

I prefer life simulators with dating sims that arent completely one dimensional ^

Which is why I liked harvest moon.


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## Narutossss (May 18, 2013)

soooo this guy been fired yet


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## steveht93 (May 19, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> I prefer life simulators with dating sims that arent completely one dimensional ^
> 
> Which is why I liked harvest moon.



So if people play life simulation games to enjoy a luxurios and adventures life they can't have.....then you play dating sims because?


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## Jake CENA (May 19, 2013)

Lol The Sims..  nerds smh


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## Buskuv (May 19, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> Adam Orth got fired just for telling fans to "Deal with it" on his Twitter concerning the rumors about the 720 being always online.
> 
> It's not farfetched to think this guy will get fired for the slew of hate comments he made. It doesn't matter whether what he said is true or not, the point is that he said them. As a senior *engineer of EA Sports,* one is expected to have a little more class than going on Twitter and saying things the typical GameFAQs troll says. It's making yourself and the company look bad.



Pfffhahahahahaah

Can you imagine that being a bullet on your resume?

What's it like to have no soul?


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## Narutossss (May 19, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Pfffhahahahahaah
> 
> Can you imagine that being a bullet on your resume?
> 
> What's it like to have no soul?



hey you  devs at EA sport have souls


*Spoiler*: __ 



NOT


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## Buskuv (May 19, 2013)

It's like being a regional director for Wal-Mart or McDonalds.

It makes you money, but you sure as hell don't talk about it.


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## Narutossss (May 19, 2013)

well there is worse... you could be a movie licensed game dev or a kinect dev.


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## Pilaf (May 19, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> I prefer life simulators with dating sims that arent completely one dimensional ^
> 
> Which is why I liked harvest moon.



Better be careful naming the games out loud like that. Nintendo may start charging you royalties.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 19, 2013)

Pilaf said:


> Better be careful naming the games out loud like that. Nintendo may start charging you royalties.



They should charge EA for ever saying "Wii U".


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## Buskuv (May 19, 2013)

Pilaf said:


> Better be careful naming the games out loud like that. Nintendo may start charging you royalties.



>people make significant amounts of money using a company's property

>fuck copyright

>company does something about it

>stop oppressing me!


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## Death-kun (May 19, 2013)

Disney let EA make Star Wars games in exchange for the souls of EA's employees. Disney was running low on Disneyworld/land intern souls and needed a fresh source to feed to Walt Disney.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 19, 2013)

That's how they keep that old fogey alive^


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## Wan (May 19, 2013)

It was probably unwise of him to make these comments, but it's not an Adam Orth level offense that merits firing.  He didn't directly insult fans and potential customers, just another company that EA confirmed beforehand that they _won't_ be working with.  He didn't say anything that speaks to the quality of EA's games or any anti-consumer practices they use.  And, most importantly to me in particular, he didn't really say anything _false_.  It's no secret that the Wii U is woefully underpowered for a "next gen" console.  While "slower than a 360" might be a bit of an exaggeration, the Wii U has very little in the way of advantages over current gen consoles.

He didn't say anything particularly damaging or wrong, he just said things very forcefully.  Not a big deal IMHO.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 19, 2013)

The man doesnt know his place^ Nor does he have any respect and the "weaker than 360" comment is completely incorrect.


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## Shirker (May 19, 2013)

The problem isn't exactly what he said, it's that he sounds like a child. 'snot a good look.


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## Buskuv (May 19, 2013)

All of this is extremely funny.

I like knowing that high-level executives and PR people at EA are 12 year old girls.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 19, 2013)

I know right^ and you thought those communication classes from MIT Sloan were completely pointless. Benefits of having a mother that actually knows whats up with reality raising you I guess lol.


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## steveht93 (May 19, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> The man doesnt know his place^ Nor does he have any respect and the "weaker than 360" comment is completely incorrect.



The CPU is weaker than that of the Xbox 369 which is a bottleneck but they have the Gpgpu so well see.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 19, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> The CPU is weaker than that of the Xbox 369 which is a bottleneck but they have the Gpgpu so well see.



there is no xbox 369 so I must come to the conclusion you are lying


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## DedValve (May 19, 2013)

Death-kun said:


> Disney let EA make Star Wars games in exchange for the souls of EA's employees. Disney was running low on Disneyworld/land intern souls and needed a fresh source to feed to Walt Disney.



What? What kind of stupid comment is this? The internet I swear -.-
























EA has no soul. It literally is a black hole. What does Disney want with a black hole? I have a bad feeling.


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## The World (May 19, 2013)




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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 19, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> The CPU is weaker than that of the Xbox 369 which is a bottleneck but they have the Gpgpu so well see.



The Ps4 apparently has a CPU thats even slower so... yeah.  Or was that some other part... eh I dont remember.

It processes at a slower speed but because of the way its built this isnt as much of a bottleneck as it appears apparently.

The thing with the Wii U is its a machine that is all about efficiency not raw power increase. There are various ways to make use of that. People seem to have this idea in their heads  that the PS4 is going to have the disparities between it and the Wii U that were present in the Ps3 Vs the Wii. Its not the case. 


If any of you are wondering about Need For Speed having less players for online its to keep the quality/framerate up since it uses the  PC renders. 

I mean the first wave of Wii U titles werent even using one of the cores in the machine.

Iwata said it himself. People seem to think the machine is underpowered and they believe whatever they want. So he's going to make them regret it.


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## steveht93 (May 19, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> The Ps4 apparently has a CPU thats even slower so... yeah.  Or was that some other part... eh I dont remember.



The ps4 has a slower CPU but its more advanced and efficient than the one found in the wii u. It does tasks better using lower energy.



> It processes at a slower speed but because of the way its built this isnt as much of a bottleneck as it appears apparently.


 how so? 



> The thing with the Wii U is its a machine that is all about efficiency not raw power increase.


  the wii u is efficient in energy consumption I'll give you that,but it's CPU is 3 gamecubes duck taped togther. That's not very efficient if you ask me mate.



> People seem to have this idea in their heads  that the PS4 is going to have the disparities between it and the Wii U that were present in the Ps3 Vs the Wii. Its not the case.


 maybe yes and maybe no,only time will tell.





> Iwata said it himself. People seem to think the machine is underpowered and they believe whatever they want. So he's going to make them regret it


. Who gives a shit about what iwata says. That's rep talk,he won't come out and say wii u is underpowered  

#pleaseunderstand

@unlosing ranger 


> there is no xbox 369 so I must come to the conclusion you are lying



 what a dirty lying machine I am. But again,deal with it 

Btw I think I used to play the game in your sig on my pc back then when I was a kid. I think it had a girl with a big anchor in it or maybe it was a boy.


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## Death-kun (May 19, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> The CPU is weaker than that of the Xbox 369 which is a bottleneck but they have the Gpgpu so well see.



No it isn't. It's more powerful/efficient than a 360 CPU but it's clocked at a slower speed.

I'm not saying anymore than that, because we don't need to go through this song and dance for the umpteenth time.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 19, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> the wii u is efficient in energy consumption I'll give you that,but it's CPU is 3 gamecubes duck taped togther. That's not very efficient if you ask me mate.
> 
> 
> Btw I think I used to play the game in your sig on my pc back then when I was a kid. I think it had a girl with a big anchor in it or maybe it was a boy.




If there is a boy you are thinking of that looks like a girl it isn't her 
Actually the wii is 2 gamecubes duct taped together and the wii U is 3 wii's duct taped together.
So that means it is actually 6 gamecubes.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 19, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> The ps4 has a slower CPU but its more advanced and efficient than the one found in the wii u. It does tasks better using lower energy.
> 
> how so?
> 
> ...


Im not just talking about power consumption, but how it handles the data and the machine preforms it tasks. Various developers that arent affiliated with Deep Silver/EA have stated this in some form or another. Even the *Scandinavians* are saying so.

And next gen gaming costs are going to be factors too ( I see you doing a double take Take Two)


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## DedValve (May 19, 2013)

WiiU is shit. PS4 will be shit. Infinite will be uber shit. PC will swiftly go to shit when Valve runs out of business. 

#spectrumsaveus


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 19, 2013)

And the uber powerful tablets will try and take over. BUT NO WE WONT LET IT SAVE US ALL IN 7 YEARS PLZZZZz ITS EVOLVING IN WAYS WE CANT COMPREHEND WHERE ARE YE DR STRANGE?! WE NEED HELLBOOYYYY ooooh that make a fun game.


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## Wan (May 19, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> The Ps4 apparently has a CPU thats even slower so... yeah.  Or was that some other part... eh I dont remember.
> 
> It processes at a slower speed but because of the way its built this isnt as much of a bottleneck as it appears apparently.



Nope.  The PS4 (and the Nextbox, for that matter) will use an 8 core "x86" architecture CPU running at 1.6 GHz or 2 GHz.  The Wii U uses a 3 core "PowerPC" architecture CPU running at 1.2 GHz;  that's barely better than the 3 core CPU in the 360.  The PS4 and Nextbox aren't exactly using cutting-edge CPUs, but they will be a good three or four times better than the one in the Wii U, to say nothing about the graphics chips.



> The thing with the Wii U is its a machine that is all about efficiency not raw power increase. There are various ways to make use of that. People seem to have this idea in their heads  that the PS4 is going to have the disparities between it and the Wii U that were present in the Ps3 Vs the Wii. Its not the case.



Both the PS4 and Nextbox seem to be built for efficiency as well.  The thing is, though, that Microsoft and Sony are still making an effort to push raw power forward while emphasizing efficiency.  Nintendo apparently decided that just edging out current gen console performance was "good enough".

The Wii U is not going to be _quite_ as far behind the PS4 and Nextbox this time around.  But there is still going to be quite a disparity, and as we're already seeing that disparity is enough to lock the Wii U out of third party titles just like the Wii got locked out of third party titles.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 19, 2013)

Oman said:


> The Wii U uses a 3 core power PC architecture CPU running at 1.2 GHz;  that's barely better than the 3 core CPU in the 360.  The PS4 and Nextbox aren't exactly using cutting-edge CPUs, but they will be a good three or four times better than the one in the Wii U, to say nothing about the graphics chips.



Since when was graphics the real reason to play games?


Death-kun said:


> No it isn't. It's more powerful/efficient than a 360 CPU but it's clocked at a slower speed.
> 
> I'm not saying anymore than that, because we don't need to go through this song and dance for the umpteenth time.


We don't need to go through this song and dance.


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## Wan (May 19, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Since when was graphics the real reason to play games?



Since when was graphics not directly tied to progress in games?  Graphics aren't everything, but they mean a lot.  And processing power doesn't just help things look shiny or fluid; it helps gameplay.  More CPU power means more dynamic, gameplay-effecting physics.  More ally and enemy NPCs with advanced AI.  More RAM means larger levels and gameplay areas.  Etc.  

There is a reason developers chose to avoid the Wii in the last generation:  its processing power was restrictive.  The same is already starting to hold true for the Wii U: some last gen games are getting ported over, but true next-gen games?  Nah, developers are saving them for consoles that can actually handle them.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 19, 2013)

Oman said:


> Since when was graphics not directly tied to progress in games?  Graphics aren't everything, but they mean a lot.  And processing power doesn't just help things look shiny or fluid; it helps gameplay.  More CPU power means more dynamic, gameplay-effecting physics.  More ally and enemy NPCs with advanced AI.  More RAM means larger levels and gameplay areas.  Etc.
> 
> There is a reason developers chose to avoid the Wii in the last generation:  its processing power was restrictive.  The same is already starting to hold true for the Wii U: some last gen games are getting ported over, but true next-gen games?  Nah, developers are saving them for consoles that can actually handle them.


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## Wan (May 19, 2013)

Good graphics, of course, can't help bad game design.   And a game can be well designed without having cutting-edge graphics. But let's not pretend there is no value to graphics at all.  Better graphics and processing power allow for more options; it's up to the designer to use those options well.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 19, 2013)

Oman said:


> Good graphics, of course, can't help bad game design.   And a game can be well designed without having cutting-edge graphics. But let's not pretend there is no value to graphics at all.  Better graphics and processing power allow for more options; it's up to the designer to use those options well.



Most won't do it that well if all they rely on is graphical power.
I don't expect innovation


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## Wan (May 19, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Most won't do it that well if all they rely on is graphical power.
> I don't expect innovation



You're right.  Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was too busy relying on its cutting edge graphical power (for its time) to bother being very innovative.   Oh wait.

A bad developer is a bad developer; a good developer is a good developer.  Graphics and processing power are just a tool, one that will be used well by the good developers and badly by the bad developers.  But I'm sure any worker, no matter how good they are, prefers to have the best tools available.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 19, 2013)

Oman said:


> You're right.  Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was too busy relying on its cutting edge graphical power (for its time) to bother being very innovative.   Oh wait.
> 
> A bad developer is a bad developer; a good developer is a good developer.  Graphics and processing power are just a tool, one that will be used well by the good developers and badly by the bad developers.  But I'm sure any worker, no matter how good they are, prefers to have the best tools available.





Look at this stupid piece of shit. It pisses me off.
Everything is going into graphical R&D. That AI and all that other shit are suffering because of it if anything.


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## Ben Tennyson (May 19, 2013)

Wii U like to play?


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## Akira Kurusu (May 19, 2013)

Oman said:


> There is a reason developers chose to avoid the Wii in the last generation:  its processing power was restrictive.  The same is already starting to hold true for the Wii U: some last gen games are getting ported over, but true next-gen games?  Nah, developers are saving them for consoles that can actually handle them.



You forgot the fact that it's architecture was outdated and how the Wii lacked programmable shaders that became a standard for HD development. There's also a matter of fact that Next Gen Engines like UE4 & Luminous have become so scalable that they can work from phones to Next Gen hardware, the Wii U is an HD console that can at least handle scaled Next Gen Engines that can work on current gen tech despite it's limitations in which it can obviously not handle the full versions. That question is wether a third party publisher will bother. 

Forgive me if i made an error.


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## Wan (May 19, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Look at this stupid piece of shit. It pisses me off.
> Everything is going into graphical R&D. That AI and all that other shit are suffering because of it if anything.



I'm sorry that a digitally rendered face is enough to piss you off.



Asa-Kun said:


> You forgot the fact that it's architecture was outdated and how the Wii lacked programmable shaders that became a standard for HD development. There's also a matter of fact that Next Gen Engines like UE4 & Luminous have become so scalable that they can work from phones to Next Gen hardware, the Wii U is an HD console that can at least handle scaled Next Gen Engines that can work on current gen tech despite it's limitations in which it can obviously not handle the full versions. That question is wether a third party publisher will bother.
> 
> Forgive me if i made an error.



This is true.  Nintendo at least went to the trouble of updating its architecture this time around.  Like I said, the disparity won't be as huge this time around, but it is still very significant.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 19, 2013)

Significant like Gamecube vs PS2 or Master system vs everything ?


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## Narutossss (May 19, 2013)

woooow this turned into a wii u vs ps4/nextbox thread fast.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 19, 2013)

Oman said:


> I'm sorry that a digitally rendered face is enough to piss you off.


You bad choice of an example also pisses me off.
OoT that took a great deal of working around its limitations in the new age of 3d.
IT COULDN'T rely on it's graphical power. The game was far too big for that.
This isn't the case of most games at all.


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## Narutossss (May 19, 2013)

can't we all get along


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## Violent by Design (May 19, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> You bad choice of an example also pisses me off.
> OoT that took a great deal of working around its limitations in the new age of 3d.
> IT COULDN'T rely on it's graphical power. The game was far too big for that.
> This isn't the case of most games at all.



I don't really understand this point at all. Ocarina of Time looks great for its era, runs well and has good frame rate;  a lot of that has to do with the n64 being far ahead of the PSX and Saturn. A game like that would not have worked on the other consoles of its generation with out being seriously gimped.

To pretend that graphical power makes no difference in a medium that is based on technology like video games is silly.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 19, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> can't we all get along


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 19, 2013)

Violent By Design said:


> I don't really understand this point at all. Ocarina of Time looks great for its era, and a lot of it has to do with the n64 being far ahead of the PSX and Saturn.






I believe there is even more as well(There are many interviews on OoT even more than what I posted).
If you read the interviews you would know his comparison is horrible.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 19, 2013)

In the end their is only one question you have to ask yourself. What motivates you as a gamer?People tend to only really make decisions based on what motivates them. Developers ask themselves this, so its why they pick one platform over another. (Or rather some COO picks it for them and they all jump on the bandwagon where they fake it to make it till the actually start believing in it)


The point is you only need enough processing power. Graphical updates shouldnt be the main goal.  Consoles change too quickly for that. Besides it makes you a one trick pony and it shows with time. And the HD era has shown  the more you spend on graphics the less you spend elsewhere. When you blur the lines between a console and a pc any further than the PS4 and Xbox Infinitum(tum tum tum tum TUMMMMMM) have all that is left is the fact that you're buying "services" .  And when it turn into tech services you know that means Apple is gonna come in and attempt to eclipse your market.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 19, 2013)

NightRazr gets it.


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## Wan (May 20, 2013)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> You bad choice of an example also pisses me off.
> OoT that took a great deal of working around its limitations in the new age of 3d.
> IT COULDN'T rely on it's graphical power. The game was far too big for that.
> This isn't the case of most games at all.



It HAD to rely on its graphical power.  Practically all of its gameplay innovations wouldn't have even been possible if not for the leap forward made by the N64.

You seemed to be implying (forgive me if I'm wrong) that focus on graphics somehow inherently gets in the way of true innovation with gameplay.  It doesn't; sometimes they can even go hand in hand.  I am not downplaying the importance of gameplay innovation; some developers can get carried away overemphasizing graphics at the expense of other elements and when it happens that's on them. But the thought that graphics and processing power have next to no value except as a money sink and distraction is bullshit not backed up by the actual history of gaming.

Really though, I've seen you leap to the defense of the Wii U before (or rather, leap at the throat of Sony).  In the interest of clarity, what is your opinion of each next-gen console?



St NightRazr said:


> In the end their is only one question you have to ask yourself. What motivates you as a gamer?People tend to only really make decisions based on what motivates them. Developers ask themselves this, so its why they pick one platform over another. (Or rather some COO picks it for them and they all jump on the bandwagon where they fake it to make it till the actually start believing in it)
> 
> The point is you only need enough processing power. Graphical updates shouldnt be the main goal.  Consoles change too quickly for that. Besides it makes you a one trick pony and it shows with time. And the HD era has shown  the more you spend on graphics the less you spend elsewhere. When you blur the lines between a console and a pc any further than the PS4 and Xbox Infinitum(tum tum tum tum TUMMMMMM) have all that is left is the fact that you're buying "services" .  And when it turn into tech services you know that means Apple is gonna come in and attempt to eclipse your market.



I'm...not sure what you just said or where the heck services and Apple enter the picture, but I will say this: delivering the best experience is the goal of any game.  For some games, the best experience is to deliver the most detailed, immersive, realistic characters and environments they can.  They need more graphical capabilities to do that, and there's nothing wrong with that.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 20, 2013)

Im talking about the future of gaming man. Whats the point of making a machine that connects to your tv when you can hook a computer up to it to do the exact same thing. In the end that comes down to simplicity and price. If they keep making consoles more like PCs that function as multimedia hubs its inevitable that the upgrades will increase in price. And I suspect that with time hooking your PC up to your TV will become an even more seamless, inexpensive process. So while that is lowering in cost and time, consoles will be increasing in price to the point all your doing is buying a "service" from a company. And no one likes to sell "services " more than Apple. So you know their arse is coming to get in on that shit. 

Honestly I dont approve of making game world bigger without addressing the design issue that are currently present. Skyrim is the biggest offender of this in my book. Its why I dont like it.

But I bet you Im the only one here that knows the term "taking an arrow to the knee" is a euphemism for getting married.


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## Wan (May 20, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> Im talking about the future of gaming man. Honestly I dont approve of making game world bigger without addressing the design issue that are currently present. Skyrim is the biggest offender of this in my book. Its why I dont like it.
> 
> But I bet you Im the only one here that knows the term "taking an arrow to the knee" is a euphemism for getting married.



Making a game world...bigger?  I think I see what you mean, but I'm not sure what it has to do with what I was talking about.

EDIT for your edit:



St NightRazr said:


> Im talking about the future of gaming man. Whats the point of making a machine that connects to your tv when you can hook a computer up to it to do the exact same thing. In the end that comes down to simplicity and price. If they keep making consoles more like PCs that function as multimedia hubs its inevitable that the upgrades will increase in price. And I suspect that with time hooking your PC up to your TV will become an even more seamless, inexpensive process. So while that is lowering in cost and time, consoles will be increasing in price to the point all your doing is buying a "service" from a company. And no one likes to sell "services " more than Apple. So you know their arse is coming to get in on that shit.



I'm not sure you understand the difference between a packaged good and a service.  Increasing the price does not turn something into a service.  Requiring a constant connection that you have to regularly pay for, on the other hand, does.  And people have been worrying that that's the path the next Xbox is going down,  With regards to that, I absolutely agree that we should stay away from games becoming a "service" like that.


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## Grape (May 20, 2013)

People are actually _defending_ Nintendo's constant failure? 

You realize that the only reason Sony exists in the console war is because Nintendo refused to change from expensive cartridge's to disc? Sony was their disc company and realized the good folks at Nintendo were ignorant, saw a chance to dominate the market and jumped on it. 

As far as graphics vs game play, game play will always be king, but game play evolves over time with technology. Better hardware allows for newer game play. Ultimately, if I could play my favorite games of this era, but on a system from 10+ years ago with totally shit graphics, I would still love the games because of the game play. It's better to look at it as both of them going hand in hand with better graphics just being a benefit of the pairing.

But yeah, Nintendo is retarded. I was considering a Wii U, but they continue to disappoint. I wouldn't be surprised if this were the system that kills the company. I agree with the EA guy, Nintendo should sell off individual game/character rights to M$ and/or Sony.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 20, 2013)

^ Nintendo actually attempted to work with Phillips. but phillips didnt know shit about discs.

What you two fail to understand is it takes veritable leaps in graphical capabilities to create new environments. Truth of the matter is those technologies dont get put to use these days. The last surprising things I've seen  in technical capabilities are like what Guilty Gears did with 3D models/backgrounds appearing as 2D sprites, or what Monolith Soft did with the Wii in regards to Xenoblade.  Apparently Silicon Studio and Mercury Steam have been able to do some interesting things with the 3DS graphically.

In my opinion graphics are only going to get more efficient at what they already can do until they are able to make that leap or they evolve into something else entirely.

The PS4 wont be able to outperform anything on the PC as it is now(but the PC moves faster anyway) until a few years in its life span. After all it is a gaming PC from 2 years ago(with a shit ton more RAM for background services).

Eh grapes you can think what you like, but in the end your opinion's kinda irrelevant. Since its completely based off bullshit. Nintendo's doing whats best for their business in the long run in sustaining their place in the market. Thats why despite the potential benefits of putting their IPs on smartphones (which really arent there) they havent ventured down that unholy path. Their business interest in general lines up with what gamers want thankfully.  (but seriously what shitty decisions they've made at times) The Wii U itself is worth it to me because not only does it streamline how I interact with my television (hey I dont have to find a fucking remote and I dont need an apple tv, because the internet practically works in the same manner as that!) it actually has games that Im interested in. I just decided to be smart and not buy one till I can get a good deal for what I want.

As I always say , no one knows what Nintendo should have done besides Nintendo themselves. Anybody who acts otherwise is a damn fool or an analyst getting paid to analyze, however jaded of a thought process or limited a view they possess


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## Jake CENA (May 20, 2013)

Nintendo should stick on building new handhelds...like gameboy advance color HD.


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## strongarm85 (May 20, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> ^ Nintendo actually attempted to work with Phillips. but phillips didnt know shit about discs.
> 
> What you two fail to understand is it takes veritable leaps in graphical capabilities to create new environments. Truth of the matter is those technologies dont get put to use these days. The last surprising things I've seen  in technical capabilities are like what Guilty Gears did with 3D models/backgrounds appearing as 2D sprites, or what Monolith Soft did with the Wii in regards to Xenoblade.  Apparently Silicon Studio and Mercury Steam have been able to do some interesting things with the 3DS graphically.
> 
> ...



The whole thing can be summed up with one problem.

The reason the next leap hasn't happened is because the parties who have the funding and the means to make that next leap are unwilling to take the risks needed to make the next leap. Its the innovators who break new ground. Thing is, being an innovator is risky because there is a chance that every new idea will fail

The only people who can afford to be innovators right now are independent developers because their games involve less risk. But the indy developers don't have the resources to really go out there and try to push new graphical boundaries. Instead they have to go about designing new game genres, or figuring out new ways to play.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 20, 2013)

Nintendo's like a giant school of indie developers. Its why they needed someone from Pizza Hut to run things here in America.(Except he's always just been the COO XD)


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 20, 2013)

Grape said:


> You realize that the only reason Sony exists in the console war is because Nintendo refused to change from expensive cartridge's to disc?





> Koizuma
> 
> About 500 patterns. Add to that the programming combinations, and there were even more. One reason we were able to put so many patterns in was the Nintendo 64 system's ROM cartridges.
> Iwata
> ...


Yep, only reason.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 20, 2013)

Oman said:


> It HAD to rely on its graphical power.  Practically all of its gameplay innovations wouldn't have even been possible if not for the leap forward made by the N64.
> 
> You seemed to be implying (forgive me if I'm wrong) that focus on graphics somehow inherently gets in the way of true innovation with gameplay.
> 
> Really though, I've seen you leap to the defense of the Wii U before (or rather, leap at the throat of Sony).  In the interest of clarity, what is your opinion of each next-gen console?



I consider it to be the other way around focusing on gameplay doesn't get in the way of graphics. We have been focusing on graphics for so long that it's absurd now switch it up I say. 

As for the trio? well the price of the other two will effect how things go but
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The ps4 might be the next ps2 or not do as well psp/ps3 sales.
The share button is stupid. The touchpad is stupid.(I mean really that is actually worse than a wii U, it serves practically no function.)
Basically confirms that sony can't make a new controller.(Boomerang controller)
And uhhh I haven't seen the console, that actually helps you know...
Lets go by the games then... Some of the games are, well not that impressive. 
The shooters are the same as ever killzone ended up looking like it would work perfectly fine on the wii U if it was spec'd down a bit.

The other one was knack
Now knack is made of the playstation button icons in 3d.
The game looks like it could have been done on the ps3 for the most part with little quality loss.

I don't know what the game actually looks like in gameplay the only footage I have seen is on the vita and that doesn't show me anything that couldn't be done in the ps2 days of ratchet and clank gameplay wise, I need a bigger screen to actually see the details.

basically knack = Kameo + sony icons is how it feels with some clank is how it feels... wait knack... clank... dammit!

So games on the ps4? I'm not sure, but the console look solid as far as specs go, but that has shown consistently to not be important being the strongest almost always means losing. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
(ps2 beating the stronger xbox and gamecube)
(ps1 beating(not as badly) n64)
(Every damn nintendo handheld winning despite being the weaker one)
( ps3 was on equal ground with 360 despite more potential, wii sold tons despite not being a HD console and still had good games)
(the Snes(it was quite a bit stronger) was like the 360 and ps3 with sega(until it died anyway))
(Nes is probably the only exception that comes to mind at all until later in it's life) 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The wii U will make some kind of comeback a good deal past gamecube sale levels (it's not even been a year let them make games for it) it's not doomed like how all of the journalism paints it(they aren't helping). Everyone misunderstands it for a large DS when it's not actually it's main function. (tv switching,budget,distant playing console) 

If you can't afford a good tv, have a room mate, multiple people going in and out, it's a godsend and hardly a gimmick for what it was actually intended for 

(you don't have to use the screen for major gameplay devs, you really don't. just have it be able to switch the game onto the pad and have certain things where it would be handy, handy)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The next box can burn in hell. Everything I've heard about it makes the jaguar sound holy if true at all. But it will probably sell like crazy anyway in the USA even if those are true.

So I imagine it will be like the gamecube era basically just not quite as bad, but with Nintendo finally stepping on solid ground with online, nextbox going super casual (Super Sega Wii levels+ with kinect2), ps4 trying to be more open with their hardware like they should have been doing since the psp(they turned into dicks when they did the ps2, you know what I mean full of themselves).

Just guesses.


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## Grape (May 20, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> ^ Nintendo actually attempted to work with Phillips. but phillips didnt know shit about discs.
> 
> What you two fail to understand is it takes veritable leaps in graphical capabilities to create new environments. Truth of the matter is those technologies dont get put to use these days. The last surprising things I've seen  in technical capabilities are like what Guilty Gears did with 3D models/backgrounds appearing as 2D sprites, or what Monolith Soft did with the Wii in regards to Xenoblade.  Apparently Silicon Studio and Mercury Steam have been able to do some interesting things with the 3DS graphically.
> 
> ...





Fanboys =/= Valid opinions

I was playing NES when you were still just a twinkle in your daddy's eye, bro.

The company is washed up. They have no one to blame but themselves. Poor decisions as far as HD and internet, as well as making developers jump through hoops to deliver a game for their system.. Dude, everyone in the world knows what they should have done. 

Sony certainly knew*.

And ya know, cuz Wiki alwayz be right.

*


> The console's origins date back to 1988 where it was originally a joint project between  and  to create a  for the  .
> The PlayStation made its debut at the   in June 1991 when Sony revealed its console, a Super Famicom with a  built-in CD-ROM drive (that incorporated Green Book technology or CDi).  However, a day after the announcement at CES, Nintendo announced that it  would be breaking its partnership with Sony, opting to go with  instead but using the same technology.
> The deal was broken by Nintendo after they were unable to come to an  agreement on how revenue would be split between the two companies.[]
> The breaking of the partnership infuriated Sony President , who responded by appointing Kutaragi with the responsibility of developing of the PlayStation project to rival Nintendo.


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## Death-kun (May 20, 2013)

Nintendo has made questionable choices, but they are far from washed up. Just slow on the uptake.  And the WiiU is doing a lot more right than most of you give it credit for.

Now all Nintendo needs is a goddamn account system.


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (May 20, 2013)

Well thats quite a big err in your thought process. Opinions are opinions, they isnt a lick of validity to it. Its based off how you think and process the environment and information around you and the conclusion you form based off your personal emotions.

I dont know why but apparently you're either simply overtly disappointed and perhaps a tad bit relinquished.

Chasing trends never did anyone any good, look what it did to Square Enix. You need to carve your own place in the market and come in at it with a good game plan. Nintendo didnt have a good game plan. Simple as that. They thought it might work by letting 3rd parties go first but in reality they were never keen on fully promoting the Wii U until the issues were worked out because they rushed it to the market since they stopped supporting the Wii after 2010. They Rayman Legends delay and entry into the HD market were unforseen circumstances but it only highlighted the already issue present and now that's kicked up a lot of negativity around the console and that just doesnt go away. You seem keen on taking the negativity as fact. That is where you and I differ. I'm not a fanboy. I've been gaming since I was yey high. Im a realist who is taking a look at the positives and negatives. Nintendo's been around for a long time, its not wise to jump the gun. Now if we were more than 6 months in this consoles damn life cycle it'd be another story. Nintendo would be a veritable Regigigas royally fucking things up. Perhaps I simply know more than you do about the situation and dont have my judgement clouded by my own perspective.


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