# Sabo, Ace, & Luffy vs Fujitora



## hungrytrash (May 4, 2014)

Characters are at their current power levels. Ace is at the level he was at when he died. Greenbit, 100 meters. Go.

Scenario 1: Sabo has no fruit

Scenario 2: Sabo has fruit (So he and Ace both have the Mera Mera)


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## Magician (May 4, 2014)

They stomp.


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## ShadowReaper (May 4, 2014)

Scenario 1: Fuji, high difficulty
Scenario 2: Fuji, extreme difficulty.


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## Urouge (May 4, 2014)

@YM how? they aint stomping him. the only one close to his level is sabo.


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## Orca (May 4, 2014)

The brothers win. Sabo by himself should be on Fujitora's level. Adding Ace and Luffy should give him the victory.


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## Daisuke Jigen (May 4, 2014)

Ace and Luffy are non factors, and Sabo is not Admiral level, so...Issho wins both scenarios.


Urouge said:


> @YM how? they aint stomping him. the only one close to his level is sabo.


Because Sabo/Ace 2.0 is now the most overrated character in OP history and wins every vs thread he's in.


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## eyeknockout (May 4, 2014)

the brothers win extreme difficulty, luffy and ace are strong enough to not get oneshot so they distract fujitora while sabo charges fujitora because he can hold his own.


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## Orca (May 4, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> Ace and Luffy are non factors, and Sabo is not Admiral level, so...Issho wins both scenarios.
> 
> Because Sabo/Ace 2.0 is now the most overrated character in OP history and wins every vs thread he's in.



Why would you think he is overrated?


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## Dellinger (May 4, 2014)

Luffee said:


> Why would you think he is overrated?



If Sabo was really as strong as most think,Burgess and Diamante would be almost dead by now.


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## Orca (May 4, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> If Sabo was really as strong as most think,Burgess and Diamante would be almost dead by now.



If fujitora was as strong as you think then Law wouldn't have gotten away and it wouldn't have taken as much effort. That's honestly the logic you're using here.

Sabo didn't even want to beat them up.


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## Dellinger (May 4, 2014)

Luffee said:


> If fujitora was as strong as you think then Law wouldn't have gotten away and it wouldn't have taken as much effort. That's honestly the logic you're using here.
> 
> Sabo didn't even want to beat them up.



The thing is,Fujitora has made it clear that if he wants to,he can kill everyone on the island.

Sabo certainly didn't give me that impression.Plus his hiken did nothing to Burgess and Diamante.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 4, 2014)

Well for starters Neither group is getting stomped although individually Fuji would beat ace  and luffy up badly if they try to be the main attacker at any point and not let sabo do the heavy lifting.

Anyway Fuji wins, ace and luffy are not strong enough to tip the scales since sabo is not near equal to fuji. Replace Luffy and Ace with Doflamingo and Hancock then we have something to discuss.

Fuji wins at max with High diff IMO,  or wins as easily as low diff. Anything below low or higher then high diff is just being really unreasonable. Honestly if this was someone like marco or garp a stronger arguement could be made, because they lack the powerful aoe that fuji has, so luffy and ace would actually be helping more then being a burden.


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## hungrytrash (May 4, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> *Replace Luffy and Ace with Doflamingo and Hancock then we have something to discuss.*
> 
> Fuji wins at max with High diff IMO,  or wins as easily as low diff. Anything below low or higher then high diff is just being really unreasonable. *Honestly if this was someone like marco or garp a stronger arguement could be made*, because they lack the powerful aoe that fuji has, so luffy and ace would actually be helping more then being a burden.



Wait what? Sabo + Doflamingo + Hancock would wreck Fujitora. 

And do you really think they have a better chance against Garp? I don't even think Marco would necessarily be easier since the majority of the offensive power in this fight is fire which will basically have no effect on him.

I get the feeling that no one actually imagines the fight playing out. They just compare their interpretation of tiers to see who is higher between the opponents and then shout the winner. Sure, tiers are the major factor, but you need to take into account how abilities will interact. For example, why would Fujitora's AOE be the decisive factor when two out of three of his opponents are logias? As a logia, Garp would be way more trouble to defend against than Fujitora.


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## Orca (May 4, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> The thing is,Fujitora has made it clear that if he wants to,he can kill everyone on the island.
> 
> Sabo certainly didn't give me that impression.Plus his hiken did nothing to Burgess and Diamante.



And Sabo made it clear that he could end the fight when he wanted to. Not sure why you didn't get the impression when it was made crystal clear.


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## Coruscation (May 4, 2014)

> Fuji wins at max with High diff IMO, or wins as easily as low diff. Anything below low or higher then high diff is just being really unreasonable.



You think Fujitora winning with _low_ difficulty isn't unreasonable? That would be truly pathetic on the part of the Revolutionaries 2nd in command.


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## savior2005 (May 4, 2014)

sabo is admiral level
ace clashed with aokiji so he is also admiral level.
luffy is weaker then them but he can hurt fuji due to his lack of logia.
2 admiral lvl+one high tier vs 1 admirals level.
the team stomp


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## Magentabeard (May 4, 2014)

The team with slightly less than high difficulty.


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## Canute87 (May 4, 2014)

Fuji isn't a logia and he doesn't have the level of lethality like Akainu or Kiji or the speed of Kizaru so luffy and ace can hit him effectively,  They are not non factors.

The trio can win.


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## November (May 4, 2014)

savior2005 said:


> sabo is admiral level
> *ace clashed with aokiji so he is also admiral level.*
> luffy is weaker then them but he can hurt fuji due to his lack of logia.
> 2 admiral lvl+one high tier vs 1 admirals level.
> the team stomp


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## X18999 (May 4, 2014)

Fujitora has no chance to win.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 4, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> You think Fujitora winning with _low_ difficulty isn't unreasonable? That would be truly pathetic on the part of the Revolutionaries 2nd in command.



Unreasonable sure.

Really unreasonable nope. Oda has a lot of options in terms of how strong he can make Sabo IMO, as we really don't know how strong the Revos are currently and how much growth oda will have them go through.

I was using the nice way of putting it, another way to put it would be if you think Fuji can stomp sabo you are a bias as hell or a troll and should be ignored, vice versa with sabo beating Fuji or giving him extreme diff. That being said I find the latter more likely then the former.


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## Coruscation (May 4, 2014)

Come on, it would be stupid as hell if the Revolutionaries second strongest would get low diffed by an Admiral who isn't even Akainu. You know this full well. The odds of it happening are stupidly small. Even the odds of Luffy being able to give low diff to an Admiral are probably bigger. If you say Oda has a lot of options in how strong he wants to make Sabo then why is him being near on par with Fujitora (who could be one of the weaker Admirals) somehow _really_ unreasonable but Fujitora _low_ diffing Sabo isn't?


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## Daisuke Jigen (May 4, 2014)

Luffee said:


> Why would you think he is overrated?


People think Sabo Pre-DF can extreme diff Akainu, so...


savior2005 said:


> sabo is admiral level
> *ace clashed with aokiji so he is also admiral level.*
> luffy is weaker then them but he can hurt fuji due to his lack of logia.
> 2 admiral lvl+one high tier vs 1 admirals level.
> the team stomp


Seriously? Ace (lost mid diff to Blackbeard) is Admiral because he blocked one attack from an Aokiji who was holding back?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 4, 2014)

^^I said twice already that I find both sides unreasonable. To clarify again Sabo giving Fuji low diff I find unreasonable, as well as high diff. Extreme\stomp as in sabo Giving him extreme diff or fuji stomping him I put in the troll category like zoro mid diff lucci level shit.


And again we dont know how strong the revos are currently. They could be strong enough to beat kaidou entire combined forces in legit combat, or lose mid diff to them(yes I can see the revos being much weaker then a yonkou currently) All depends on the whims of Oda.

Now if you would like my personal opinion. 

I rate Sabo at around jozu level, so I think fuji can currently beat him mid diff. Although I do not find the option of sabo giving fuji high diff or low diff, in the troll territory of thinking either.


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## Orca (May 4, 2014)

> People think Sabo Pre-DF can extreme diff Akainu, so...



I've never seen such a comment here before. So it must be only one or two people who think that way. Infact there was a thread about Akainu vs Sabo+team recently. I don't recall anyone saying Sabo could solo Akainu.


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## Daisuke Jigen (May 4, 2014)

Luffee said:


> I've never seen such a comment here before. So it must be only one or two people who think that way. Infact there was a thread about Akainu vs Sabo+team recently. I don't recall anyone saying Sabo could solo Akainu.


It was over at MF. Sabo hasn't shown any feats that put him near the Admirals or even Marco's level. I can put him above Doflamingo, but I'm not putting Sabo near Marco or the Admirals level until he shows the feats that prove it.


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## Orca (May 4, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> It was over at MF. Sabo hasn't shown any feats that put him near the Admirals or even Marco's level. I can put him above Doflamingo, but I'm not putting Sabo near Marco or the Admirals level until he shows the feats that prove it.



Greenbull has no feats. But just by looking at his rank one can get a good idea of how strong he would be. Similarly I don't think it's wanking or unreasonable to think that the second in command of RA is at Fujitora's level.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (May 4, 2014)

Sabo alone is enough. 

Ace and Luffy just make it lopsided.


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## Coruscation (May 4, 2014)

> To clarify again Sabo giving Fuji low diff I find unreasonable, as well as high diff. Extreme\stomp as in sabo Giving him extreme diff or fuji stomping him I put in the troll category like zoro mid diff lucci level shit.



How does that make any sense? How is the second in command of the Revs being on par with an Admiral on par with the second in command of the Revs being *stomped* by an Admiral in plausibility? One is not really overly implausible at all let alone in the trolling category. Yet _you call even the Revs 2nd giving an Admiral high diff unreasonable_, and no more likely than the Revs 2nd getting low diff'd by one. A low diff fight being something like Luffy vs Caesar Clown in most people's books. That makes no damn sense at all. 

All this is apparently because you think that Oda can do whatever he wants with the Revolutionaries. Then why doesn't that apply just as much the other way around? You say he could make Sabo considerably weaker than Jozu, why couldn't he also make him considerably stronger if he feels like it. You say he could make the Revs considerably weaker than a Yonkou crew, why can't he make them stronger if he feels like it. Maybe the Revs are actually ready to march on the WG at any time in terms of raw power. But for some reason apparently this "logic" only goes in one direction to you.


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## TheWiggian (May 4, 2014)

Ace probably dies in the crossfire since he just can't tank even a couple of hits (from yami teach), Fuji crushes him with a meteor or beheads him.

Luffy isn't Admiral lvl yet he'll survive a while thanks to Haki and his resistance, durability. But he won't be able to do much to Fuji.

Sabo is the only one who will be able to defend himself for some time (either with mera mera or without), but he also will go down against an admiral since he isn't on that lvl yet (he didn't show anything impressive so far).


Fuji wins both scenarios with high diff and lol at ace being admiral lvl, he's high vice-admiral lvl at best.


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## Fiddlesticks (May 4, 2014)

Brother trio high-diff


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 4, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> How does that make any sense? How is the second in command of the Revs being on par with an Admiral on par with the second in command of the Revs being *stomped* by an Admiral in plausibility?



Never said they were on par just both in the troll category which contains a massive range. 



> One is not really overly implausible at all let alone in the trolling category. Yet _you call even the Revs 2nd giving an Admiral high diff unreasonable_, and no more likely than the Revs 2nd getting low diff'd by one.



I said Sabo being on par or stronger then Fuji is more likely then fuji low diffing or stomping sabo. So not sure what your going on about.



> Then why doesn't that apply just as much the other way around?


I never said it did not go both ways i commented on both sides of the pole.



> You say he could make Sabo considerably weaker than Jozu, why couldn't he also make him considerably stronger if he feels like it.



He can and I expect that to turn out to be the case.



> You say he could make the Revs considerably weaker than a Yonkou crew, why can't he make them stronger if he feels like it. Maybe the Revs are actually ready to march on the WG at any time in terms of raw power. But for some reason apparently this "logic" only goes in one direction to you.



Maybe up to oda. He has given us very little in regards to their strength the revos could very well have all major preprations complete and are just wating to strike. In which case it would make perfect sense for them to be able to defeat kaidou.

So again all up to oda he has given no direct hype to the revos strength, so if the revos can beat kaidou or lose to him we really cant say anything about it either way cause it contradicts nothing beyond some fans notions of how strong\weak they should be.


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## Magician (May 4, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> It was over at MF. Sabo hasn't shown any feats that put him near the Admirals or even Marco's level. I can put him above Doflamingo, but I'm not putting Sabo near Marco or the Admirals level until he shows the feats that prove it.



Kaido has no feats.

Buggy >>>> Kaido.

Plus feats don't mean much. "Feats" are 90% fanmade. Author portrayal >>>>>>> feats any day of the week. If the author wants a character to be at a certain level then that person is at that level whether they have the feats to prove it or not. 

Sabo being 2nd command of the entire Revolutionary army who is one of the most important factions in the entire manga and the group who plans to overthrow a juggernaut like the WG, cements the fact that Oda intends him to be extremely strong. He could've easily had made Sabo a 3rd commanding or even 4th commanding officer, but he didn't. He made him 2nd behind Dragon himself.

Your just mad cause your fav character isn't the strongest in this arc.


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## Coruscation (May 4, 2014)

> Never said they were on par just both in the troll category which contains a massive range.



Incredibly pointless semantics. If they're both in the "troll category" then that's saying both are so outrageous you don't even take them remotely seriously. They are hardly, at least the one of them. Sabo being nearly on par with Fujitora wouldn't even be something to raise our collective eyebrows particularly high over. More than almost anyone is expecting sure but not earth shattering. To categorically dismiss people who predict it as ludicrous trolls is unwarranted. Sabo being low diffed by Fujitora, as in terribly and categorically outclassed and just barely capable of not getting swiftly trampled into the dirt, and even being quickly squashed if Fujitora really puts his mind to it, that, on the other hand, would be much more surprising. Predicting that being the case is just, by all accounts, terribly underestimating Sabo.



> I said Sabo being on par or stronger then Fuji is more likely then fuji low diffing or stomping sabo.



No. You put Sabo being low diffed by Fujitora on the same level as Sabo being capable of giving a high difficulty fight to Fujitora. That is what I'm saying is ridiculous. Sabo giving Fuji a high difficulty fight shouldn't even be noteworthy at this point, it's something that is entirely reasonable to expect out of the Revs 2nd. But for some reason you call that an _unreasonable_ thing to believe. Being low diffed on the other hand would be majorly surprising to almost anyone and cement them as terribly weak faction in truth.


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## blueframe01 (May 7, 2014)

its funny how the term Admiral is enough to make you win matches, sometimes with little difficulty regardless of who the opponents may be.

Especially when the admiral is Fujitora. 

Offensively - His strongest move so far, the *meteorfall *- while obviously devastating, is easily the most dodge-able moves among the admirals so far, especially for any of the 3 brothers. Unless Oda shows Fuji being able to clad COA to  giant rock that is falling from thousands of miles away, that skill  does shit to a Logia user which would mean 2 of  of 3 brothers wont even be troubled by it. the fact that Luffy is among the fastest characters so far (by actual feats) & not the main focus in for Fujitora (more on this later) means that he wont be that troubled by it too. 

Defensively - He is not a Logia. that alone gives him a huge disadvantage over the colored trio. Remember WB stabbing straight through Aokiji & Marco/Vista's double up on Akainu? both the admirals would have suffered gravely had they not been logias. But they came out unscathed, due to their Haki & intangibility. Fujitora doesn't have that advantage, so he'll be feeling every hit that comes his way. Just like everyone else, accumulative hits that he receives would only weaken him. 

Back to the topic, he is going against the 2nd strongest Revo, who just got a massive power up offensively, who toyed around a member from a Yonkou crew & a key member in Dofla's crew. That'e already as impressive as anything Fuji has done so far, and IMO what puts him slightly below an admiral so far is his experience with his fruit. however with his 2 brother on his side, they pretty much overwhelm Fujitora after a while. Sabo forces Fuji to give his full attention on him, which gives Ace & Luffy ample space to flank Fujitora. We've seen how effective such a strategy is especially when the likes of Marco was flanked by Onigumo, & Squardo managed to catch WB by surprise & stabbed him in the chest. both were weaker, yet both were able to deal significant damage to the opponent with a free hit. and in this situation, not even an Admiral would take free hits from Ace / Luffy without getting hurt


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## trance (May 7, 2014)

Oh, it seems I haven't commented on this matchup yet. 

Anyway, I must one of the few who thinks that Issho isn't any weaker than the Logia trio (or at least enough just barely weaker). So, I'm going with Issho mid difficulty in the first match up and high/very high difficulty in the second matchup.


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## Daisuke Jigen (May 7, 2014)

blueframe01 said:


> its funny how the term Admiral is enough to make you win matches, sometimes with little difficulty regardless of who the opponents may be.
> 
> Especially when the admiral is Fujitora.


This post is funny.


blueframe01 said:


> Offensively - His strongest move so far, the *meteorfall *- while obviously devastating, is easily the most dodge-able moves among the admirals so far, especially for any of the 3 brothers. Unless Oda shows Fuji being able to clad COA to giant rock that is falling from thousands of miles away, that skill  does shit to a Logia user which would mean 2 of  of 3 brothers wont even be troubled by it.


It's not like meteors are the ONLY thing in his arsenal. And you do realize that one of those three brothers got mid diffed by the man who was crying on the ground after trying to fight a half faced and half dead Whitebeard?


blueframe01 said:


> the fact that Luffy is among the fastest characters so far (*by actual feats*) & not the main focus in for Fujitora (more on this later) means that he wont be that troubled by it too.


Going off actual feats, Luffy is faster than Kaido.


blueframe01 said:


> Defensively - He is not a Logia. that alone gives him a huge disadvantage over the colored trio. Remember WB stabbing straight through Aokiji & Marco/Vista's double up on Akainu? both the admirals would have suffered gravely had they not been logias. But they came out unscathed, due to their Haki & intangibility. Fujitora doesn't have that advantage, so he'll be feeling every hit that comes his way. Just like everyone else, accumulative hits that he receives would only weaken him.


Issho doesn't have a Logia defense. So fucking what? That Logia defense didn't help the Logia Trio when people actually hit the Admirals, like when Jozu hit Aokiji, or when Whitebeard hit Akainu with island splitting force, but guess what? The best that Jozu (who has one of the best strength feats in the manga) could manage to do to Aokiji was one little bloody lip, and Akainu not only remained consciousness from an Island Splitter, he still had enough in the tank to fodderize high tiers.


blueframe01 said:


> Back to the topic, he is going against the 2nd strongest Revo, who just got a massive power up offensively, who toyed around a member from a Yonkou crew & a key member in Dofla's crew. *That'e already as impressive as anything Fuji has done so far*


...this post is just...fighting people who are M3 level at best is as impressive as Issho calling down meteors, while floating his own ship, and eating ramen...


blueframe01 said:


> and IMO what puts him slightly below an admiral so far is his experience with his fruit.


And the fact that we don't know how strong Sabo even is...


blueframe01 said:


> however with his 2 brother on his side


Who aren't on even Doflamingo's level.


blueframe01 said:


> they pretty much overwhelm Fujitora after a while. Sabo forces Fuji to give his full attention on him, which gives Ace & Luffy ample space to flank Fujitora. We've seen how effective such a strategy is especially when the likes of Marco was flanked by Onigumo, & Squardo managed to catch WB by surprise & stabbed him in the chest. both were weaker, yet both were able to deal significant damage to the opponent with a free hit. and in this situation, *not even an Admiral would take free hits from Ace / Luffy without getting hurt*


1.) Yes they could, and 2.) Sabo is the only real threat, and more likely than not, Luffy and Ace will die in the crossfire between Issho and Sabo...which ends with Issho coming out on top.


Stαrkiller said:


> Oh, it seems I haven't commented on this matchup yet.
> 
> Anyway, I must one of the few who thinks that Issho isn't any weaker than the Logia trio (or at least enough just barely weaker). So, I'm going with Issho mid difficulty in the first match up and high/very high difficulty in the second matchup.


I view Issho as equal to the Logia Trio until proven otherwise.


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## Rob (May 7, 2014)

The team could take it. 

Sabo alone should be close to his level. 

Adding Ace and Luffy who could arguably do some damage could tip the scales. 

I'll wait till we see the 3 that are in the current arc do something significant.


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## trance (May 7, 2014)

blueframe01 said:


> Defensively - He is not a Logia. that alone gives him a huge disadvantage over the colored trio. Remember WB stabbing straight through Aokiji & Marco/Vista's double up on Akainu? both the admirals would have suffered gravely had they not been logias. But they came out unscathed, due to their Haki & intangibility. *Fujitora doesn't have that advantage, so he'll be feeling every hit that comes his way. Just like everyone else, accumulative hits that he receives would only weaken him*.



That's assuming they actually land hits on his person. He doesn't have the benefit of Logia intangibility but he does have the benefit of an immensely strong barrier than can completely protect himself from his own meteor.


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## Magician (May 7, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> The best that Jozu (who has one of the best strength feats in the manga) could manage to do to Aokiji was one little bloody lip,


 
>Performs casual BP
>Best he could do.

lulz


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## Louis-954 (May 10, 2014)

Fujitora gets mauled... he wouldn't have a chance to do much of anything.


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## Lawliet (May 10, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> Fujitora gets mauled... he wouldn't have a chance to do much of anything.



Not a chance to do much of anything? He only needed to block Zoro's sword to fuck him up. Oda is showing us the capabilities of the new admirals slowly. First by showing us Fuji + Dofla vs Law. Then switching to Fuji and Zoro, a more focused scene and I'm pretty sure we'll see more soon. The new admirals are at least as strong as the pre skip admirals, otherwise Oda wouldn't have them as the last admirals to join and fight the SHs (as far as we know).


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## Minato Namikaze. (May 10, 2014)

Fuji gets Massacred in both scenarios  lol


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## Louis-954 (May 11, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Not a chance to do much of anything? He only needed to block Zoro's sword to fuck him up. Oda is showing us the capabilities of the new admirals slowly. First by showing us Fuji + Dofla vs Law. Then switching to Fuji and Zoro, a more focused scene and I'm pretty sure we'll see more soon. The new admirals are at least as strong as the pre skip admirals, otherwise Oda wouldn't have them as the last admirals to join and fight the SHs (as far as we know).


Zoro is only *1 opponent and weaker *than the 3 Fuji would be facing in this battle. Lets say he parries Sabo, now he's wide open for Luffy and Ace to sink their fangs into. He'd be getting hit with too many different attacks from too many different angles to mount a real counter-offensive.


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## Lawliet (May 11, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> Zoro is only *1 opponent and weaker *than the 3 Fuji would be facing in this battle. Lets say he parries Sabo, now he's wide open for Luffy and Ace to sink their fangs into. He'd be getting hit with too many different attacks from too many different angles to mount a real counter-offensive.



I know that, teamwork plays a huge part. But this is a marine admiral. Zoro, Ace and Luffy are all on the same level. The only person who's close in power to Fuji is Sabo. Their teamwork will help them a lot, but Fujitora should eventually win because Ace and Luffy are not there, yet for Luffy. Unless Sabo is a lot stronger than I think, I don't see them winning this.


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## Louis-954 (May 11, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> I know that, teamwork plays a huge part. But this is a marine admiral. *Zoro, Ace and Luffy are all on the same level.* The only person who's close in power to Fuji is Sabo. Their teamwork will help them a lot, but Fujitora should eventually win because Ace and Luffy are not there, yet for Luffy. Unless Sabo is a lot stronger than I think, I don't see them winning this.


No they aren't, lol. There's a reason why Zoro never defeats the same caliber of opponents as Luffy. It should be common knowledge by now that Luffy is decisively stronger. It's reflected in their opponents, their bounties, their positions on the crew and most recently by Doflamingos ranking system.

What is Fuji supposed to do to effectively defend against Luffy and Ace while Sabo (who you admit is *close* to his level) is constantly in his face demanding his full attention? The way you're talking It's as if he's going to swat Luffy and Ace away like nothing more than annoying flies while he dominates Sabo. He's going to get worn down faster than the trio.


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## Magician (May 11, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> There's a reason why Zoro never defeats the same caliber of opponents as Luffy. It should be common knowledge by now that Luffy is decisively stronger. It's reflected in their opponents, their bounties, their positions on the crew and most recently by Doflamingos ranking system.



+1.**


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## Lawliet (May 11, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> No they aren't, lol. There's a reason why Zoro never defeats the same caliber of opponents as Luffy. It should be common knowledge by now that Luffy is decisively stronger. It's reflected in their opponents, their bounties, their positions on the crew and most recently by Doflamingos ranking system.
> 
> What is Fuji supposed to do to effectively defend against Luffy and Ace while Sabo (who you admit is *close* to his level) is constantly in his face demanding his full attention? The way you're talking It's as if he's going to swat Luffy and Ace away like nothing more than annoying flies while he dominates Sabo. He's going to get worn down faster than the trio.



of course luffy is stronger, that's why he's the one who will be the PK. But Zoro and Luffy are so close in power to the point where you can't say Zoro is weaker because that would just give the wrong impression to anyone (my opinion ofc).

Fujitora is a solid top tier. He is an admiral. Solid top tiers can manage a 1 vs a team, that's why they are solid top tiers. Just because he doesn't have a logia body, that doesn't mean he can't manage a fight against a team. Sabo should be a threat but I don't think he's a solid top tier yet, he's the closest to Fujitora, he's closer to him than they are closer to Sabo, but like I said, Fuji should not be underestimated. There's a reason why Oda made him and GreenBull along with the Kizaru the admirals to face the new era.


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## Louis-954 (May 11, 2014)

> of course* luffy is stronger,* that's why he's the one who will be the PK.  But Zoro and Luffy are so close in power to the point where* you can't  say Zoro is weaker* because that would just give the wrong impression to  anyone (my opinion ofc).


What?... It's one or the other, there is no in between.



> Fujitora is a solid top tier. He is an admiral. Solid top tiers can  manage a 1 vs a team, that's why they are solid top tiers. Just because  he doesn't have a logia body, that doesn't mean he can't manage a fight  against a team. Sabo should be a threat but I don't think he's a solid  top tier yet, he's the closest to Fujitora, he's closer to him than they  are closer to Sabo, but like I said, Fuji should not be underestimated.  There's a reason why Oda made him and GreenBull along with the Kizaru  the admirals to face the new era.


Yes he's a top-tier, but Sabo is up there too and you aren't giving Luffy and Ace nearly enough credit. If their attacks land flush (and a lot will in a 3 v 1 scenario) Fujitora is going to feel it. It's not that Fujitora isn't strong, it's that you're overestimating the rank of Admiral and underestimating Ace's level before he died and Luffy's post-skip power. Remember, Luffy is going to defeat Doflamingo in this arc, someone who isn't a far cry from Admiral level himself.

The Admirals presence isn't nearly as imposing as it was back in Paradise. Luffy, Zoro and Law were scared shitless of them back then whereas now they have enough confidence in their skills to defy them. That should be very telling for you.


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## Canute87 (May 11, 2014)

Because he's top tier team work is ineffective.

Where people get this crap?


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## Coruscation (May 11, 2014)

Marco > Sabo.
Vista + 10~ more Whitebeard commanders > Ace & Luffy.

Fujitora does not suffer from heavy injuries by the world's strongest man. Akainu did, yet he was still able to face the above situation which is a greater threat than this trio and hold his own. You might think that Fujitora loses because he's weaker than Akainu and he's not a Logia, but arguing he gets wrecked or anything of the sort is _flabbergastingly ridiculous_. That would make the gap between Fujitora and Akainu absolutely enormous and goes against everything we've actually been shown on the subject of "Admiral vs multiple powerful people at once". But people really do like to go against that.


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## Louis-954 (May 11, 2014)

> Marco > Sabo.


Conjecture.



> Vista + 10~ more Whitebeard commanders > Ace & Luffy.


Akainu is a logia and everyone was battle worn and you're overestimating some of the division commanders. Luffy and Ace are stronger than anyone not named Marco, Jozu or Vista.



> Fujitora does not suffer from heavy injuries by the world's strongest  man. Akainu did, yet he was still able to face the above situation which  is a greater threat than this trio and hold his own. You might think  that Fujitora loses because he's weaker than Akainu and he's not a  Logia, but arguing he gets wrecked or anything of the sort is _flabbergastingly ridiculous_.  That would make the gap between Fujitora and Akainu absolutely enormous  and goes against everything we've actually been shown on the subject of  "Admiral vs multiple powerful people at once". But people really do  like to go against that.


I didn't say he'd get wrecked, but he's going to lose the battle of attrition.


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## Coruscation (May 11, 2014)

> Conjecture.



Like virtually everything else. But the most likely option. Sabo only just got his new Devil Fruit. If he was already on par with or above Marco he'll soon be substantially above him.



> *everyone was battle worn* and you're overestimating some of the division commanders. *Luffy and Ace are stronger than anyone not named Marco, Jozu or Vista*.



Battle worn? Akainu just had his body quaked halfway to oblivion by the world's strongest man and doesn't have a DF that, oh, I dunno, lets him heal injuries. You know damn well who was more weakened. 

Sure they might be. Don't tell me Marco > Sabo is conjecture while Luffy & Ace "are" stronger than every other commander though. But they sure as hell aren't stronger than, or as strong as, Vista + 10 commanders all at once. That would be hilariously and mind-bogglingly absurd. Which was the point.



> I didn't say he'd get wrecked



Sorry, it was "mauled" =/ Equally as flabbergasting though.


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## Louis-954 (May 11, 2014)

> Like virtually everything else. But the most likely option. Sabo only  just got his new Devil Fruit. If he was already on par with or above  Marco he'll soon be substantially above him.


The way he casually handled Burgess and Diamante leads me to believe that he wasn't far from Marco's power level before eating the fruit. Now that he's eaten a Logia class fruit he should be every bit as formidable.



> Battle worn? Akainu just had his body quaked halfway to oblivion by the  world's strongest man and doesn't have a DF that, oh, I dunno, lets him  heal injuries. You know damn well who was more weakened.


We're talking about the same guy  who took Aokiji's best for 10 days straight and kept on coming. I don't think Whitebeards 2 attacks injured him as gravely as you believe. If he hadn't fallen into the chasm he probably would have defeated Whitebeard given the condition he was in.



> Sure they might be. Don't tell me Marco > Sabo is conjecture while  Luffy & Ace "are" stronger than every other commander though. But  they sure as hell aren't stronger than, or as strong as, Vista + 10  commanders all at once. That would be hilariously and mind-bogglingly  absurd. Which was the point.


Curiel couldn't do shit to Moriah, the *weakest warlord* and I don't recall the other division commanders doing anything particularly impressive. It's safe to say that Luffy and Ace are a cut above them.



> Sorry, it was "mauled" =/ Equally as flabbergasting though.


I also said:


> He's going to get worn down faster than the trio.


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## Katou (May 11, 2014)

Fuji right now


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## Coruscation (May 11, 2014)

> We're talking about the same guy who took Aokiji's best for 10 days straight and kept on coming. I don't think Whitebeards 2 attacks injured him as gravely as you believe.



Why does it matter...? _It was still two enraged earthquakes from the world's strongest man more than anyone else had taken_. Don't give me "battle worn" when Akainu had just had his insides ruptured with island splitting force.



> Curiel couldn't do shit to Moriah, the weakest warlord and I don't recall the other division commanders doing anything particularly impressive. It's safe to say that Luffy and Ace are a cut above them.



You're really going to play this game? Really? Whitebeard's crew is so weak we're going to *remotely* entertain the idea that 11 of them at once, one being Vista, are weaker than Ace & Luffy? You think there's the slightest chance Luffy is obliterating many WB commanders at once left and right at his current level of strength? Don't dodge the point. Couldn't do anything to Moria, huh. Well I saw Curiel attacking Moria and both of them being fine later, without us knowing exactly what transpired. I also saw Rakoyu attacking Kizaru and both of them being fine later, without us knowing exactly what transpired. It's a huge double standard to use one as evidence of Curiel's alleged crappiness but not the other as evidence of Rakoyu's substantial strength. 



> I also said



And I was responding to the asinine "he'll get mauled" assertion (not just yours, but that idea in general). If you take that back we don't have much of a problem.


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## StrawHat4Life (May 11, 2014)

Too many high level foes for even Fujitora to handle. The brothers win this with medium difficulty.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 11, 2014)

For comparison sake this is my take on it.

Chinjao(Sabo), Rob Lucci(Luffy), X drake pre-skip(Ace) vs Current Luffy.

Or another one Sanji, franky and kinemon vs Luffy. Hell you could replace franky and kinemon with two barts. Luffy would still hold his own imo, so fuji getting mauled or low diff is out of the question in this fight.

in the first comparison we Got one mid level high tier+two top level mid tiers vs a top of the list mid high tier or bottom of the upper high tiers. Sabo is a lot stronger then current luffy and fuji is better then him. 

Aka Fuji wins. Yes I think thier is a pretty big gap between fuji and ace/luffy.


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## BlackBearD (May 13, 2014)

Reads the first page, and what i get?
da fuck...
NF OP fans are really thinks Sabo is admiral level... that so fucking wrong.
Sabo may probably be in level with Marco and Rayleigh, a bitlong down to admiral. but in no way an equal to admiral.

Fujitora wins the two scenario, with some difficult.


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## Shanks (May 13, 2014)

Why do so many people suddenly think Sabo is now not Admiral level? Does the audience in the telegram differ dramatically compare to the battle dome?

The fact that Oda have shown us the small clash between Fuji and Zoro the way it did is to show us that guys at Zoro?s level or higher are in fact strong enough to fight an Admiral and so Luffy and Ace will pay a major factor in this fight.

Luffy in particular is not just a support roll for Sabo. With the right opportunity Fuji could fight himself under 1,000 Elephant Gun in a Gatling style.

I also don?t see Fuji tanking Entei well if he?s caught off guard and didn?t use his gravity or haki to defend. 

Then we capitalize with the 2nd in Charge of the revolutionary army together with the team.

The trio should win mid ? high difficulties. Mid if Luffy solo Dofla in this arc.


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## trance (May 13, 2014)

The M3 wank/Issho downplay.


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## Magentabeard (May 13, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> The M3 wank/Issho downplay.



Only in the eyes of an admiraltardo


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## Extravlad (May 13, 2014)

Can't believe Magentabeard is actually green, dafuk with you guys, he is one of the most terrible troll ever, he's not even funny with his stupid Bobbins wank.


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## trance (May 13, 2014)

Magentabeard said:


> Only in the eyes of an admiraltardo



>Saying Issho is weaker than the Logia trio using bullshit implications
>Saying Sabo is stronger than him
>Saying that Whitebeard can low diff him
>Saying two nonfactors can do anything against him

Nope. He's definitely downplayed. 

So, fuck off.


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## Shanks (May 13, 2014)

Fujitora is weaker than C3 based on feats, hypes and story progression (not bullshit)
Who is saying Sabo is stronger in a 1 v 1 fight?
Did I ever say WB can low dif Fujitora?
Ace & Luffy are not non-factors

And Magentabeard needs to be red or black.


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## trance (May 13, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> [*]Fujitora is weaker than C3 based on feats, hypes and story progression (not bullshit)



Feats, yes. Everything is BS.



> [*]Who is saying Sabo is stronger in a 1 v 1 fight?



Make a "Sabo vs. Fujitora" match up and find out. 



> [*]Did I ever say WB can low dif Fujitora?



Sakazuki (RG) did. 



> [*]Ace & Luffy are not non-factors



Yes. Yes they are.


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## Extravlad (May 13, 2014)

> Fujitora is weaker than C3 based on feats,


Based on feats Shanks is a piece of shit, Mihawk is trash and Roger got killed by 2 random soldiers


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## Shanks (May 13, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Based on feats Shanks is a piece of shit, Mihawk is trash and Roger got killed by 2 random soldiers



So you decided to delete the rest of my sentence and put words in my mouth?


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## BlackBearD (May 14, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> Fujitora is weaker than C3 based on feats, hypes and story progression (not bullshit




Do you even know on whom he is based? on fucking Zatoichi.
and Fujitora is fucking admiral.

no need feats as proofs.


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## Orca (May 14, 2014)

> Do you even know on whom he is based? on fucking Zatoichi.



What does this have to do with his power level?


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## BlackBearD (May 14, 2014)

Luffee said:


> What does this have to do with his power level?


Zatoichi haki power-level is over 9000!


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## Shanks (May 14, 2014)

Rada said:


> and Fujitora is fucking admiral.
> 
> no need feats as proofs.



Just means he's it's more plausible to say he's weaker than the original Admirals who have more experience being an Admiral, no?


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## BlackBearD (May 14, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> Just means he's it's more plausible to say he's weaker than the original Admirals who have more experience being an Admiral, no?


no. he was always strong as admiral. otherwise they wouldn't recruit him to this position.


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## Shanks (May 14, 2014)

Rada said:


> no. he was always strong as admiral. otherwise they wouldn't recruit him to this position.



They recruit him because he's strong, not as strong as the original admiral.


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## BlackBearD (May 14, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> They recruit him because he's strong, not as strong as the original admiral.


you're not serious, right? if yes... it's just a "wow" and not in good way.
and with that i'll end my stay in this discussion. i wouldn't repeat myself with other, but the same examples.

good luck to those who agree with me, and still have the strength to discuss.


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## Lawliet (May 14, 2014)

original admirals? What is "original admirals". Akainu, Aokiji and Kizaru are not the original admirals. Yes I know what you mean, but that still doesn't mean anything. There were previous admirals before, new ones come.


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## Shanks (May 14, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> original admirals? What is "original admirals". Akainu, Aokiji and Kizaru are not the original admirals. *Yes I know what you mean, but that still doesn't mean anything. *There were previous admirals before, new ones come.



Which means this post is simply an attempt to be a smart-ass.


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