# Is War Arc Sakura Kage level?



## Veracity (Oct 29, 2017)

Pretty much what the title says. I know it's clear as day but shit why not.  Damn near a " bait thread" but that's basically the point and it's probably going to turn into Nero vs Me for at least a couple of pages. Also, how do you think Sakura fares against other named Kage?: 

1. Old Hiruzen 
2. Mei
3. Kakashi
4. Rasa


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 29, 2017)

She beats em all imo

Mei is a weird match in 1v1s tho...Shes also mad underrated in those circumstances where she doesnt need to worry about collateral

Reactions: Agree 2


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## oiety (Oct 29, 2017)

By the War Arc you can say what you will about healing others, but in terms of a 1v1 fight I think I'd say that I don't believe that there's anyone Tsunade could beat that Sakura couldn't.

So yeah, mid-kage at least, and given that I'd favor Tsunade over all the listed characters...I guess the answer's obvious.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 29, 2017)

oiety said:


> in terms of a 1v1 fight I think I'd say that I don't believe that there's anyone Tsunade could beat that Sakura couldn't.


This

Sakura also hits harder

So theres that

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Bonly (Oct 29, 2017)

Kishi basically turned her into Tsunade 2.0 but slightly weaker so yeah Kage lvl

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pumpkin Potion (Oct 29, 2017)

She is Chunin level also this thread is a carry over from  if you are not couht up with the topic.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Mar55 (Oct 29, 2017)

This has been done before, hasn't it?


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## Maverick04 (Oct 29, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Pretty much what the title says. I know it's clear as day but shit why not.  Damn near a " bait thread" but that's basically the point and it's probably going to turn into Nero vs Me for at least a couple of pages. Also, how do you think Sakura fares against other named Kage?:
> 
> 1. Old Hiruzen
> 2. Mei
> ...



She beats them..If this was war Kakashi then this wouldve been a different story..But yea she pretty much beats everyone with high difficulty at best


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## Veracity (Oct 29, 2017)

Nerosmoke said:


> She is Chunin level also this thread is a carry over from  if you are not couht up with the topic.


We can see how many think Sakura is truly " chunin" level throughout the course of this thread

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Shazam (Oct 29, 2017)

Sakura has no diversity. She heals and she punches - That's it. 

Her Taijutsu skills are also worse than Lee and that's her only attack method.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TrollbitoUchiha (Oct 29, 2017)

Hiruzen is a close fight. I’m going to give it to the professor at high diff due to his more versatile moveset and Enma, but Sakura’s healing abilities and summon could prove to be a difference maker.

She wrecks Hokage Kakashi. Kakashi is crap without the sharingan. His best technique got taken from him and it just happened to be his finishing technique. Clones are countered by punching the ground or heavenly kick. Sakura wins mid diff.

Mei owns with acid mist that melted Hebi Sasuke’s susanno and finishes with lava. Mid diff for Mei.

Rasa is garbage. Sakura wins mid diff.


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## The_Conqueror (Oct 29, 2017)

She is a mid kage
A fighter as well as support. 

As an adult she is high kage IMO around or better than Itachis level 

Tho its hard to take into account  her combat feats in war tbh

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Maverick04 (Oct 29, 2017)

TrollbitoUchiha said:


> Mei owns with acid mist that melted Hebi Sasuke’s susanno and finishes with lava. Mid diff for Mei.


And she would just stand there doing nothing

Reactions: Like 1


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## Charmed (Oct 29, 2017)

U mean War Arc Sakura vs this guys?



Veracity said:


> 1. Old Hiruzen
> 2. Mei
> 3. Kakashi
> 4. Rasa


I think she looses TBH.
Because I think she's still a Chunin with good skills and INT.
When she's an Adult and a Jonin, I personally think she's better than Tsunade. She's pretty cool actually.
I say Adult Sakura can beat Old Hiruzen without that much trouble, and Kakashi too.
I think she's superior to Rasa, but looses due to a Bad Match up.
I think Mei is better than her though.


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## Shazam (Oct 30, 2017)

I can't name 3 Kage that Sakura could beat. At best she is low level kage... With a severe lack of combat diversity

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Ogihci Shirosaki (Oct 30, 2017)

In terms of combat ability, yes; War Arc Sakura's clearly kage-level. She's comparable to Tsunade.


*Spoiler*: _I mean_ 



She caught up to them. 



I mean, @Veracity already explained it pretty well.



Veracity said:


> • Mastered the Yin Seal; a Kage level technique.
> • Mastered Byakago; a Kage level technique.
> • Punches at the same level as Tsunade, which is superior to A4 and A3 who are both kages.
> • Can summon a Kage level boss summon.
> ...



I'll get to the fights later.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beyonce (Oct 30, 2017)

jnikools said:


> Sakura has no diversity. She heals and she punches - That's it.
> 
> Her Taijutsu skills are also worse than Lee and that's her only attack method.


Sakura's two trick pony fighting style is a lot better than having a diverse move-pool that's weak as hell.



Nerosmoke said:


> She is Chunin level also this thread is a carry over from  if you are not couht up with the topic.


Can you please explain to me how you came to that conclusion.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## The_Conqueror (Oct 30, 2017)

What we are doing is we are only giving our opinions only focusing on  sakuras combat skills. 
We also have to take in account the  support she provides  overall ninja which is her first duty. 
We fail to evaluate her as an over all ninja and just take into account her combat prowess (which she isnot bad at either)


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## Senzumaki (Oct 30, 2017)

Yes she is kage level diring the war arc

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Hi no Ishi (Oct 30, 2017)

She clearly is lol.

Check out the consensus and the databook page.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Gohara (Oct 30, 2017)

Sakura being => Tsunade suggests that she's above average Kage level in my opinion.

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Oct 30, 2017)

yes but she's still easily the weakest member of team 7

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Trojan (Oct 30, 2017)

She is. Her problem tho is Kishi almost always makes her look incompetent. For example, when she needed Kakashi's help to make get away from the Juubi's wood attack, or when Kakashi saved her from falling into the lava and so on.  Not to mention that Kishi did not give her any "solo fight" either so she could bring up her full potential as well. That's why she often gets underrated.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## genii96 (Oct 30, 2017)

Overall she is kage level,get support skills are top notch

In battle only sense,not even close, having super strikes is useless IG your cqc isn't even omoi level


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## Serene Grace (Oct 30, 2017)

She has Tsunade level, if not superior striking strength, possesses the epitome of regeneration being Byakugo, and has one of the strongest summonings in existence

Tell me how she isn't kage level

Reactions: Like 2


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## AdamWiz (Oct 30, 2017)

Serene Grace said:


> She has Tsunade level, if not superior striking strength, possesses the epitome of regeneration being Byakugo, and has one of the strongest summonings in existence
> 
> Tell me how she isn't kage level


She got kicked by Omoi!!!!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Santoryu (Oct 30, 2017)




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## The_Conqueror (Oct 30, 2017)

AdamWiz said:


> She got kicked by Omoi!!!!


Thank you for reminding one of the best scenes in the shippuden 
Kappa


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## LostSelf (Oct 30, 2017)

I doubt she can beat Mei and deff is not beating Kakashi with Kamui.

Hiruzen goes down, though. 

But yes, she's Kage level.


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## Troyse22 (Oct 30, 2017)

No, Sakura is not and will never be Kage level, at best she's elite Jounin level.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Euraj (Oct 30, 2017)

Hiruzen has a lot of fire power a more diverse moveset, but at that age, he's not going to outlast Sakura. Moreover, the only way he can kill her is by running up on her with Shiki Fujin and going for a draw, which would be a bad idea.

Mei is the same story. Also, don't know how either one of those two would deal with Katsuyu.

Kakashi needs the Sharingan to beat Sakura.

Rasa, I think would be the hardest fight as I believe it was said that he defeated the Shukaku. His use of sand was also not that worse than Gaara's. If Sakura can close the distance, he'd be out of luck though.



Beyonce said:


> Can you please explain to me how you came to that conclusion.


As someone who sits in the back of the Beyhive conferences, let me do you a favor and give you something more productive to debate with:


*Spoiler*: __ 





image upload

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 4


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## Skaddix (Oct 30, 2017)

Professor83 said:


> Thank you for reminding one of the best scenes in the shippuden
> Kappa



Hmm hard to live that one down.


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## Tri (Oct 30, 2017)

Anyone who suggests Sakura isn't "Kage Level" by the war arc needs to read the manga again.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Shazam (Oct 30, 2017)

Beyonce said:


> Sakura's two trick pony fighting style is a lot better than having a diverse move-pool that's weak as hell.
> 
> 
> Can you please explain to me how you came to that conclusion.




Not at all

Sai can beat her.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 2


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## Tri (Oct 30, 2017)

jnikools said:


> Not at all
> 
> Sai can beat her.




There are multiple _tiers _between Sakura and Sai. This blind hatred for the character is clearly clouding people's judgement. If Sakura didn't surpass Tsunade by the War arc she was definitely damn near her level at that point regardless of what people _want _to think.

Reactions: Like 7 | Dislike 2


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## Shazam (Oct 30, 2017)

Trizalgia said:


> There are multiple _tiers _between Sakura and Sai. This blind hatred for the character is clearly clouding people's judgement. If Sakura didn't surpass Tsunade by the War arc she was definitely damn near her level at that point regardless of what people _want _to think.



With distance and knowledge, restricting summons Sai can beat her and out last her.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Dislike 4


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## Euraj (Oct 30, 2017)

Byakugo-users are _perfect_ for Katsuyu, but sure, take that, put it a safe distance where Sai can't just be buried under the range of Sakura's attacks, tell him everything about how she is going to fight, and hell, while you're at, why don't we put a blindfold over Sakura's eyes and tell her the opponent is Moegi just to make sure she doesn't just summon Katsuyu from the jump. 

 Yet, even in that case, that Caliban-looking jive turkey would still have no way to kill her. And no, he's not going to outlast her. She fought for hours, called a boss summon, helped heal the entire alliance, and still had more chakra than a RSM-user's clones. Only thing Sai can do is fly up and sit and stalemate the gimped Sakura. Needless to say, if you have to control the circumstances that hard, it means by default that Sakura is stronger than him and that generally, he can't beat her.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 3


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 30, 2017)

As usual Sakura stans use Tsunade feats(which Sakura never showed or implied having) and Magical time skip(which somehow only works on her alone) as proof of her strength it's so pathetic and transparent that if Sakura indeed was Kage lvl there wouldn't be any point of creating all these threads that reeks of self validation of whitish thinking and like minded circle jerking of self reassuring.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Euraj (Oct 30, 2017)

Either that or the NBD has a significant number of people that don't have adult reasoning skills and other people that are bored and triggerable enough that an excess of mediocre logic makes them want to focus on rebuking it.

If simple interest in a discussion was evidence that there was no clear answer for that discussion, then we still wouldn't be having so many discussions on whether the IPCC knows what it's talking about.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 30, 2017)

Here is very significant adult reasoning for  ya. 
EOS Sakura(Thread is about War arc Sakura who by all means weaker) is Kage lvl claim does not hold any factual basis.
On counter all data we have proves otherwise - Sakura was negged by Shin "Uchiha" who only has eye controlled weapons in his arsenal.
So in order to claim that Sakura(war arc that is) is Kage lvl one must also claim that Shin is Kage lvl - which far fetched at very best.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## Shazam (Oct 30, 2017)

Euraj said:


> Byakugo-users are _perfect_ for Katsuyu, but sure, take that, put it a safe distance where Sai can't just be buried under the range of Sakura's attacks, tell him everything about how she is going to fight, and hell, while you're at, why don't we put a blindfold over Sakura's eyes and tell her the opponent is Moegi just to make sure she doesn't just summon Katsuyu from the jump.
> 
> Yet, even in that case, that Caliban-looking jive turkey would still have no way to kill her. And no, he's not going to outlast her. She fought for hours, called a boss summon, helped heal the entire alliance, and still had more chakra than a RSM-user's clones. Only thing Sai can do is fly up and sit and stalemate the gimped Sakura. Needless to say, if you have to control the circumstances that hard, it means by default that Sakura is stronger than him and that generally, he can't beat her.



Never said Sai > Sakura. Sai is barely jounin material and we're talking about people saying Sakura is Mid Kage. 

Restricting anything on Sakura is huge since she doesn't have but 2 tricks. 

Anybody with distance and attrition can beat Sakura..


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## Tom Servo (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> As usual Sakura stans use Tsunade feats(which Sakura never showed or implied having) and Magical time skip(which somehow only works on her alone) as proof of her strength it's so pathetic and transparent that* if Sakura indeed was Kage lvl there wouldn't be any point of creating all these threads that reeks of self validation of whitish thinking and like minded circle jerking of self reassuring.*


Yeah that's....that's not really how this works. the amount of threads made on an online forum has no conceivable outcome with a tier of a fictional character made by a 40 year old japanese man who works across from a gas station.


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 30, 2017)

Tom Servo said:


> Yeah that's....that's not really how this works. the amount of threads made on an online forum has no conceivable outcome with a tier of a fictional character made by a 40 year old japanese man who works across from a gas station.


Yeah, no. That would have been the case if it was not exact same users creating exact same threads about Sakura, this OP already created thread where he asked this same question in different form.



Given Tsunade is Kage lvl is axiom and his previous thread gave him all data he needs asking again is .

Also I get that you upset how Kishi ended his manga or how he treated you favorites(like Sakura). But at least do not bring this everywhere related to them.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Euraj (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> Here is very significant adult reasoning for  ya.
> EOS Sakura(Thread is about War arc Sakura who by all means weaker) is Kage lvl claim does not hold any factual basis.
> On counter all data we have proves otherwise - Sakura was negged by Shin "Uchiha" who only has eye controlled weapons in his arsenal.
> So in order to claim that Sakura(war arc that is) is Kage lvl one must also claim that Shin is Kage lvl - which far fetched at very best.


 Shin also put Naruto on his knees and embarrassed Sasuke. Sakura was giving Shin a good run before Sasuke interfered. She also knocked the shit out of Shin before he could respond later on. Maybe applying contextual outcomes to general situations is "very significant adult reasoning" in your mind, but it's not logic. 


jnikools said:


> Never said Sai > Sakura. Sai is barely jounin material and we're talking about people saying Sakura is Mid Kage.
> 
> Restricting anything on Sakura is huge since she doesn't have but 2 tricks.
> 
> Anybody with distance and attrition can beat Sakura..


Restricting Sakura is huge when you take away the abilities that form as the basis of her fighting profile. Let's take those aforementioned abilities from Sakura and also take ink from Sai and see what happens. Your logic is horrendous. If you have to remove anything to make Sai beat  Sakura, then trying to use Sai beating her as a point is worthless. 

Sakura was  brought across countries to cure a poison, discerned someone called the best Henge user the series, and at 12, snapped a Genjutsu from Kabuto. She doesn't have just two abilities, but they are her strongest for combat.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Dislike 1


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 30, 2017)

Euraj said:


> Shin also put Naruto on his knees and embarrassed Sasuke.


That's false equivalence that leads you to nowhere. Naruto was just standing in his chakra protecting Sarada and Sasuke was unable to use any of his techniques higher than his T3 Sharingan. Then again fight was interfered, otherwise Shin is not going to have leeway when he needs to sacrifice his clone just to tank - frickin Fireball.


Euraj said:


> Sakura was giving Shin a good run before Sasuke interfered. She also knocked the shit out of Shin before he could respond later on.


Point is she was not - she only managed to land hit on Shin from surprise attack(just like Shin did with Naruto and Sasuke). And after that was rendered unable to act by Shin's clones(ones that Sarada trashed) - Shin completed his own field operation and began to trash Sakura and she was in "barely holding" state(lol some stans even claimed that she was holding stalagnate(sic!) in order to toss it to Shin) from which she was saved by Sasuke. 



Euraj said:


> Maybe applying contextual outcomes to general situations is "very significant adult reasoning" in your mind, but it's not logic.


Using sensual claims about Naruto and Sasuke is not logic, claiming that "Sakura was giving Shin a good run before Sasuke interfered" is intellectual dishonesty and made up lies. Talk about adult reasoning and logic is very ironic when to prove your point you needs to outright lie about manga event.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Euraj (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> That's false equivalence that leads you to nowhere. Naruto was just standing in his chakra protecting Sarada and Sasuke was unable to use any of his techniques higher than his T3 Sharingan. Then again fight was interfered, otherwise Shin is not going to have leeway when he needs to sacrifice his clone just to tank - frickin Fireball.


And if Sakura fought Shin to the death, she would have walked away with automatically healing wounds and he'd be in a crater or in Katsuyu's stomach. You two take Sakura and put her in a situation where she is at a logical disadvantage, never has conclusive one-on-one engagement, and try to use that as an irrefutable indicator of her general skill level and then complain if the same is done to the guys. Shin needs to sack a clone for a fireball? What do you think he'd do if Sakura dropped a boss summon on top of him?



> Point is she was not - she only managed to land hit on Shin from surprise attack(just like Shin did with Naruto and Sasuke). And after that was rendered unable to act by Shin's clones(ones that Sarada trashed) - Shin completed his own field operation and began to trash Sakura and she was in "barely holding" state(lol some stans even claimed that she was holding stalagnate(sic!) in order to toss it to Shin) from which she was saved by Sasuke.


 Exactly. Now you know what context is, padawan. What was happening when Shin was fighting Sakura one-on-one afterward? He was running while Sakura was going after him with not so much as a limp in her stride.




> Using sensual claims about Naruto and Sasuke is not logic, claiming that "Sakura was giving Shin a good run before Sasuke interfered" is intellectual dishonesty and made up lies. Talk about adult reasoning and logic is very ironic when to prove your point you needs to outright lie about manga event.


The word you're thinking of is _sensational_, and the claim is neither. Naruto and Sasuke were fucked by Shin when the circumstance favored him, but since the lens of bias is thinner for those two, more of us reconciled with the fact they'd obliterate him without effort in a general fight. Did Shin defeat Sakura in his hideout when they had a few seconds for an actual fight?

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## Shazam (Oct 30, 2017)

Euraj said:


> Shin also put Naruto on his knees and embarrassed Sasuke. Sakura was giving Shin a good run before Sasuke interfered. She also knocked the shit out of Shin before he could respond later on. Maybe applying contextual outcomes to general situations is "very significant adult reasoning" in your mind, but it's not logic.
> Restricting Sakura is huge when you take away the abilities that form as the basis of her fighting profile. Let's take those aforementioned abilities from Sakura and also take ink from Sai and see what happens. Your logic is horrendous. If you have to remove anything to make Sai beat  Sakura, then trying to use Sai beating her as a point is worthless.
> 
> Sakura was  brought across countries to cure a poison, discerned someone called the best Henge user the series, and at 12, snapped a Genjutsu from Kabuto. She doesn't have just two abilities, but they are her strongest for combat.



Anybody who can keep distance and has attrition beats Sakura. Anybody with blitzing speed and piercing attacks beats Sakura. Anybody with good Genjutsu beats Sakura.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Troyse22 (Oct 30, 2017)

Euraj said:


> And if Sakura fought Shin to the death, she would have walked away with automatically healing wounds and he'd be in a crater or in Katsuyu's stomach. You two take Sakura and put her in a situation where she is at a logical disadvantage, never has conclusive one-on-one engagement, and try to use that as an irrefutable indicator of her general skill level and then complain if the same is done to the guys. Shin needs to sack a clone for a fireball? What do you think he'd do if Sakura dropped a boss summon on top of him?
> 
> Exactly. Now you know what context is, padawan. What was happening when Shin was fighting Sakura one-on-one afterward? He was running while Sakura was going after him with not so much as a limp in her stride.
> 
> ...



Most of us have common sense to know that Naruto or Sasuke would blitz the fuck out of shin with no diff if not for PiS (plot induced stupidity) and they wouldn't even get a scratch on their bodies.


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## Troyse22 (Oct 30, 2017)

jnikools said:


> Literally any Kage level Shinobi beats Sakura.



ftfy


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## Shazam (Oct 30, 2017)

I would even wager Sasori with knowledge can beat Adult Sakura

And blood lusted Kimi with distance and knowledge

Maybe even Neji if he is able to avoid a few strikes long enough to shut down chakra points and make her pass out

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 30, 2017)

Euraj said:


> And if Sakura fought Shin to the death, she would have walked away with automatically healing wounds and he'd be in a crater or in Katsuyu's stomach. You two take Sakura and put her in a situation where she is at a logical disadvantage, never has conclusive one-on-one engagement, and try to use that as an irrefutable indicator of her general skill level and then complain if the same is done to the guys. Shin needs to sack a clone for a fireball? What do you think he'd do if Sakura dropped a boss summon on top of him?


How do you expect boss summon to fight in CAVE?! I know Sakura stans usually use Katsui as their last hope and answer to anything but then again just like all summons slug disappears when suffers damage(like clones) or even when it runs out of chakra, and Shin has plenty clones to sacrifice to.



Euraj said:


> Exactly. Now you know what context is, padawan. What was happening when Shin was fighting Sakura one-on-one afterward? He was running while Sakura was going after him with not so much as a limp in her stride.


First of all get off from your high horse - Sakura stan doing is beyond redemption. Second did you even read manga?! Or did you watch anime where they rewrote entire plot just to make Sakura not so pathetic? Because you sound as person who only watched anime.



Euraj said:


> The word you're thinking of is _sensational_, and the claim is neither.


I used right word it's  and yours is very definition of that, you like Sakura and anything related to her will come from affected by your emotion anything negative will be diminished and anything positive will be blown up out of proportion -  take heed padawan.



Euraj said:


> Naruto and Sasuke were fucked by Shin when the circumstance favored him, but since the lens of bias is thinner for those two, more of us reconciled with the fact they'd obliterate him without effort in a general fight.


This comes from factual data of them actually fighting and winning people way more powerful than Shin. 



Euraj said:


> Did Shin defeat Sakura in his hideout when they had a few seconds for an actual fight?


What few seconds you speak about?! They managed to go where Oro is on foot get dna analysis and only come after that. Sakura was already pinned down at the moment, claim that she would won is utterly ridiculous because if she could she have done so long time ago - as Sasuke claimed, too bad Kishi decided Sakura is not that strong.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Veracity (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> Yeah, no. That would have been the case if it was not exact same users creating exact same threads about Sakura, this OP already created thread where he asked this same question in different form.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol why are you so mad? Post your comment and go. Shits not that deep

Reactions: Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 30, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Lol why are you so mad? Post your comment and go.


Right back at you, let it go. Sakura is not kage level and definitely way weaker than Tsunade is.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Veracity (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> Right back at you, let it go. Sakura is not kage level and definitely way weaker than Tsunade is.


No not right back at you. I don't have a problem posting Sakura threads but you're the one hoping on and complaining like you have a personal vendetta against Sakura or some shit. Sakura is a fictional character. She didn't do anything to you. Why are you so hurt?

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## Zensuki (Oct 30, 2017)

If being Kage level means you can defeat a Kage then Sakura is Kage level. 



Veracity said:


> Lol why are you so mad? Post your comment and go. Shits not that deep



Sakura has been rustling his jimmies for years.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 30, 2017)

Veracity said:


> No not right back at you. I don't have a problem posting Sakura threads but you're the one hoping on and complaining like you have a personal vendetta against Sakura or some shit. Sakura is a fictional character. She didn't do anything to you. Why are you so hurt?


Sorry but you projections don't work, if I had anything like that, I would create threads about how weak Sakura is... Did you see any threads about Sakura from me? Of course there is none it's because this is form of obsession of hate. You on other side already created several threads asking same question and hoping new different answer - just like obsessed fanboy would have done. So I must ask did speedyamell retired and you took his job? Because that's how it seems.



Zensuki said:


> Sakura has been rustling his jimmies for years.


Says who? Sakura stan.


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## Shazam (Oct 30, 2017)

Zensuki said:


> If being Kage level means you can defeat a Kage then Sakura is Kage level.
> 
> There is no Kage with feats that Sakura can beat.
> 
> Sakura has been rustling his jimmies for years.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Zensuki (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> Sorry but you projections don't work, if I had anything like that, I would create threads about how weak Sakura is... Did you see any threads about Sakura from me? Of course there is none it's because this is form of obsession of hate. You on other side already created several threads asking same question and hoping new different answer - just like obsessed fanboy would have done. So I must ask did speedyamell retired and you took his job? Because that's how it seems.
> 
> 
> Says who? Sakura stan.



Whether many threads have been created is irrelevant to the one now, as this board is not some constant. Opinions and posters change. Seems like you're more upset at the outcome than this thread existing.

f all you're going to do is whine about the thread existing while posting in it whats the point of you even being here?

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 30, 2017)

Zensuki said:


> Whether many threads have been created is irrelevant to the one now, as this board is not some constant. Opinions and posters change. Seems like you're more upset at the outcome than this thread existing.


Man stop using projections of how you think people think just because you think this way. Only thing I upset about is OP creating essentially same thread he created not so long ago with same question is" Sakura Kage lvl?", if you guys need to ask so much it's obvious she is not.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Veracity (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> Sorry but you projections don't work, if I had anything like that, I would create threads about how weak Sakura is... Did you see any threads about Sakura from me? Of course there is none it's because this is form of obsession of hate. You on other side already created several threads asking same question and hoping new different answer - just like obsessed fanboy would have done. So I must ask did speedyamell retired and you took his job? Because that's how it seems.
> 
> 
> Says who? Sakura stan.


Making threads doesn't automatically equate to obsession or hatred; it's not that cut and dry. You're gonna have to try harder then that lol. And you're honestly smoking dick if you think making four or 5 threads about a specific character over the course of _4 years_ means you have an obsession with said character. Like hell, by that logic I shouldn't make two threads about any character or I'll get labeled as a "Stan." I don't like Sakura at all, she just gets massively underrated on the forums and she has a similar skill set to my favorite character so I roll with her from time to time. And I was outright asked to make this thread by another poster to carry on a debate, but let's just ignore that.

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## Tri (Oct 30, 2017)

Veracity said:


> I don't like Sakura at all, she just gets massively underrated on the forums


Basically this 

having the decency to fairly rate a character =/= liking the character

Reactions: Like 1


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## AdamWiz (Oct 30, 2017)

Zensuki said:


> Sakura has been rustling his jimmies for years.


Seems like her fans have been rustling his jimmies as well lately.

The guy has this deep hate for any Sakura stan for some reason.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 30, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Making threads doesn't automatically equate to obsession or hatred; it's not that cut and dry. You're gonna have to try harder then that lol.


Yet posting threads does? Your abdication is accepted.


Veracity said:


> And you're honestly smoking dick if you think making four or 5 threads about a specific character over the course of _4 years_ means you have an obsession with said character.


And definitely smoking one if you think this is about every thread about Sakura. This is particularity about threads that you and some other users(created) with purpose not getting results but getting fact that Sakura is:
Kage lvl in war arc.(with no factual proof)
If not she definitely Kage lvl at eos.(same as above)
She in war arc is stronger than Tsunade or someone comparable to Tsunade(same as above)
If not she definitely stronger than Tsunade or someone comparable to Tsunade at eos(same as above)

You see pastern here? Because I see it. Sakura did not had any decent fight(or any at all) since Sasori and even it was not her solo fight. She did not do anything significant as fighter ever since then. Naruto gained SM(better than Jman) and defeated Pain and so on, Sasuke got Susanoo(same power as Itachi that Oro wanted) and took 5 kage and then defeated Danzo and so on. Sakura gained Byakugo - and then punched ground, yeah it was big smash but does not get you or any of Sakura "advocates" anywhere.



Veracity said:


> Like hell, by tha logic I shouldn't make two threads about any character or I'll get labeled as a "Stan." I don't like Sakura at all, she just gets massively underrated on the forums and she has a similar skill set to my favorite character so I roll with her from time to time.


That's pathetic rebuttal Sakura presented in battledome same she was presented in manga by Kishi with few crippled Tsunade feats and pointless hype that was never realized. That's not something to be taken seriously.



AdamWiz said:


> Seems like her fans have been rustling his jimmies as well lately.
> 
> The guy has this deep hate for any Sakura stan for some reason.


Well at least you admitted that you are stan. But be my guess read my first post in this thread. Especially this part:


Doc Mindstorm said:


> if Sakura indeed was Kage lvl there wouldn't be any point of creating all these threads that reeks of self validation of whitish thinking and l*ike minded circle jerking of self reassuring*.


I even bold it for you.
Read zen post, then your and then mine. I did predicted that didn't I? And this my post was not even addressed to anyone particular, but you guys still just came and made it true. But .

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 2


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## Veracity (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> Yet posting threads does? Your abdication is accepted.
> 
> And definitely smoking one if you think this is about every thread about Sakura. This is particularity about threads that you and some other users(created) with purpose not getting results but getting fact that Sakura is:
> Kage lvl in war arc.(with no factual proof)
> ...



I mean if you really think I'm addicted to Sakura then roll with it. I'm not getting into an extended debate about my personal feelings over a character. Shit is just not worth it in the long run. But I kindly do ask you to stop derailing the thread and let others post their opinion and go. I'm honestly more interested in that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 30, 2017)

Veracity said:


> I mean if you really think I'm addicted to Sakura then roll with it. I'm not getting into an extended debate about my personal feelings over a character. Shit is just not worth it in the long run. But I kindly do ask you to stop derailing the thread and let others post their opinion and go. I'm honestly more interested in that.


Lol one who derailing is you dear OP, I actually debated about Sakura strength till you showed up - read my last post before yours addressed to me.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## AdamWiz (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> Well at least you admitted that you are stan.


It's obvious as day that I am a Sakura fan.



Doc Mindstorm said:


> I even bold it for you.
> Read zen post, then your and then mine. I did predicted that didn't I? And this my post was not even addressed to anyone particular, but you guys still just came and made it true. But


OP was literally asked by someone else to make this thread. This has nothing to do with self reassuring, I don't see how this is a big deal.

It's not like Sakura is the only character that gets this amount of threads.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Veracity (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> Lol one who derailing is you dear OP, I actually debated about Sakura strength till you showed up - read my last post before yours addressed to me.


Your very first message had little to do with Sakura and more to do with the fact that I created the thread itself. The point is to stay on topic, which you aren't doing much of.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Useful 1


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## Serene Grace (Oct 30, 2017)

I have yet to see anyone counter why she isn't kage level

Even if you don't think she isn't kage level, possessing Katsuyu is more than a enough

I mean I despise sakura, but this is just

Reactions: Like 3


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## Zensuki (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc is just desperate. Should stop before more detail.

@Platypus


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 30, 2017)

AdamWiz said:


> It's obvious as day that I am a Sakura fan.


At least you honest about yourself.



AdamWiz said:


> OP was literally asked by someone else to make this thread. This has nothing to do with self reassuring, I don't see how this is a big deal.
> 
> It's not like Sakura is the only character that gets this amount of threads.


Yeah considering other characters actually have feats and fights we can rely on, her having same amount as them is what makes all these threads about Sakura feel forced, and yeah they self reassuring.
Claiming that Sakura got stronger than Sakura because of TS is what fallacy is. But then again carry on since my debater is not replying and you guys only here not for debate, we have nothing to discuss.



Veracity said:


> Your very first message had little to do with Sakura and more to do with the fact that I created the thread itself. The point is to stay on topic, which you aren't doing much of.


Lol don't try to cop it now. My very first post lead to actual debate in which I proved why my post is correct - and correct post cannot be off-topic if they are validated by this thread's topic. I just placed conclusion of debate before debate even started. But you picking it and not my actually points about why Sakura is not Kage lvl is impaling that you not interested in debate about and interested in off topic which you still not ended.



Zensuki said:


> Doc is just desperate. Should stop before more detail.
> 
> @Platypus


I was actually debating before you 3 showed up and derailed topic.


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## AdamWiz (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> Yeah considering other characters actually have feats and fights we can rely on, her having same amount as them is what makes all these threads about Sakura feel forced, and yeah they self reassuring.
> Claiming that Sakura got stronger than Sakura because of TS is what fallacy is. But then again carry on since my debater is not replying and you guys only here not for debate, we have nothing to discuss.


We do have Sakura feats we can rely on.

And it's not illogical to think that Jonin Sakura > Chunin Sakura, especially when her hand-to-hand combat went from 3 out of 5 to 5 out of 5.

And no, I'm not gonna mention her fight with Shin since it's "filler".


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## Veracity (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> Lol don't try to cop it now. My very first post lead to actual debate in which I proved why my post is correct - and correct post cannot be off-topic if they are validated by this thread's topic. I just placed conclusion of debate before debate even started. But you picking it and not my actually points about why Sakura is not Kage lvl is impaling that you not interested in debate about and interested in off topic which you still not ended.



Lol how about this, let's just debate here. If these are Sakura's feats across the little panel time she had during the War Arc, how is she not Kage level? Ask yourself that:

• Mastered the Yin Seal; a Kage level technique.
• Mastered Byakago; a Kage level technique.
• Punches at the same level as Tsunade, which is superior to A4 and A3 who are both kages.
• Can summon a Kage level boss summon.
• Landed a punch on Kaguya; a god tier.
• dodged Kaguya's chakra arm which was stated to be quick by a god tier.
• fueled Obito's dimensional Kamui while tired.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shazam (Oct 30, 2017)

If Sakura is Kage Level then it doesnt take much to be considered "low kage"


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## Shazam (Oct 30, 2017)

Kimi blood lusted with distance and Intel could kill her.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## AdamWiz (Oct 30, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Lol how about this, let's just debate here. If these are Sakura's feats across the little panel time she had during the War Arc, how is she not Kage level? Ask yourself that:
> 
> • Mastered the Yin Seal; a Kage level technique.
> • Mastered Byakago; a Kage level technique.
> ...


I'll post this again aswell::
Sakura punching a Juubi clone.
Here is Sakura defeating multiple opponents with a single punch

Sakura reading complex movements in the middle of a fight
Sakura surviving a TSB stab, .
Sakura healing the entire alliance despite only activating her Yin Seal.
Sakura had enough chakra reserves (3 years) to open Kaguya's dimensions, something that drained even Kaguya and Obito themselves.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## AdamWiz (Oct 30, 2017)

jnikools said:


> Kimi blood lusted with distance and Intel could kill her.


If he had full intel about her abilities then the first thing he'll do is run away before Sakura turns him to red paste

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## Shazam (Oct 30, 2017)

AdamWiz said:


> If he had full intel about her abilities then the first thing he'll do is run away before Sakura turns him to red paste



He'll use Sawarabi no Mai from the start and Sakura gets impaled followed by being decapitated


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 30, 2017)

AdamWiz said:


> We do have Sakura feats we can rely on.
> 
> And it's not illogical to think that Jonin Sakura > Chunin Sakura, especially when her hand-to-hand combat went from 3 out of 5 to 5 out of 5.


Name any that not.
>Vague time skip which also work the way it only affects Sakura - Tsunade does not benefit from time skip, I bet you guys easily claim she actually suffers from it.
>Vague statement from character(Hashirama) with vague comparison to Tsunade which he remembers only when she was from age of toddler to teen at best.
>Vague punch that ground with fodders.




Veracity said:


> Lol how about this, let's just debate here. If these are Sakura's feats across the little panel time she had during the War Arc, how is she not Kage level? Ask yourself that:
> 
> • Mastered the Yin Seal; a Kage level technique.
> • Mastered Byakago; a Kage level technique.


That's essentially one same technique, and Kage level is vague statement again it's S-rank kinjustu, or Rather it's S-rank because it's kinjutsu, then again it's only needs CC higher than Shizune's or big chakra reserves like Tsunade has.



Veracity said:


> • Punches at the same level as Tsunade, which is superior to A4 and A3 who are both kages.


No, Tsunade has CES and natural-supernatural strength and taijustu specialist of Gai's lvl - there is no way that they are same, when she only has CES.


Veracity said:


> • Can summon a Kage level boss summon.


If you add Kage lvl at everything, it does not make it Kage level. Also P1 Naruto is now Kage lvl now.


Veracity said:


> • Landed a punch on Kaguya; a god tier.


 that root of problem, you guys actually believe that this is feat.


Veracity said:


> • dodged Kaguya's chakra arm which was stated to be quick by a god tier.


 What do you mean dodged?! Kakashi saved her.


Veracity said:


> • fueled Obito's dimensional Kamui while tired.


Again Genin P1 Naruto is Kage now he even without fox seal has large chakra.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## AdamWiz (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> >Vague time skip which also work the way it only affects Sakura - Tsunade does not benefit from time skip, I bet you guys easily claim she actually suffers from it.


Tsunade suffered from it because she didn't train during the timeskip. Jiraya called her rusty (chapter 162), and her blood phobia affected her fighting style.






Doc Mindstorm said:


> Vague statement from character(Hashirama) with vague comparison to Tsunade which he was when she was from age of toddler to teen at best


Kishimoto's intentions were clear. He didn't make Hashirama compare her to Tsunade for the laughs. But If you actually think that Tsunade as a toddler is stronger than Sakura..


Doc Mindstorm said:


> >Vague punch that ground with fodders.


How is it vague? And those fodders have decent durability, one of those fodders brushed off Sakura's punch pre-Byakugo.



Doc Mindstorm said:


> That's essentially one same technique, and Kage level is vague statement again it's S-rank kinjustu, or Rather it's S-rank because it's kinjutsu, then again it's only needs CC higher than Shizune's or big chakra reserves like Tsunade has.


It's S-rank because it's a powerful technique that grants It's user super regeneration. There are mant S-rank jutsus that are not necessarily kinjutsu.

It doesn't require big reserves, it requires extremely delicate chakra control as stated by the author himself. Sakura does not have large chakra reserves yet still has a big amount of chakra stored in her seal thanks to her CC.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> No, Tsunade has CES and natural-supernatural strength and taijustu specialist of Gai's lvl - there is no way that they are same, when she only has CES.


Does natural strength matter? Especially when Sakura's CES punch as soon as she activated Byakugo surpasses any strength feat Tsunade has shown.

And Tsunade is not as good as Gai in Taijutsu 

She's a specialist for sure, but not as good as Gai. Sakura has a 5 out of 5 in Taijutsu as well, but that does not mean that she's near Gai's taijutsu level since he also has a 5 out of 5 in taijutsu.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> you add Kage lvl at everything, it does not make it Kage level. Also P1 Naruto is now Kage lvl now.


Katsuyu is a powerful summon, that's a fact. She's held in such a high regard in this forum for a good reason.

She's indestructible and has crazy durability feats (tanking a CST, etc..)

Not to mention her acid, which is hard to dodge as stated in the second databook, page 241 I believe.

And then we have her long distance: immense healing network which can save an entire army.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> that root of problem, you guys actually believe that this is feat


Her damaging Kaguya is the feat, not her landing a hit.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> What do you mean dodged?! Kakashi saved her


She was able to evade it for a few seconds.




Doc Mindstorm said:


> Again Genin P1 Naruto is Kage now he even without fox seal has large chakra.


??
It's simply just another thing that puts Sakura in the kage tier.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 30, 2017)

AdamWiz said:


> Tsunade suffered from it because she didn't train during the timeskip. Jiraya called her rusty (chapter 162), and her blood phobia affected her fighting style.


And you proofs of Tsunade not training during timeskip just like you have proof of Sakura training during it?






AdamWiz said:


> Kishimoto's intentions were clear. He didn't make Hashirama compare her to Tsunade for the laughs. But If you actually think that Tsunade as a toddler is stronger than Sakura..


But just like you said Intentions of Kish were clear and toddler Tsuna is how he remembered her. 



AdamWiz said:


> How is it vague? And those fodders have decent durability, one of those fodders brushed off Sakura's punch pre-Byakugo.


Because they never showed anything damaging or dangerous to any character at all. And Pre-Byakugo Sakura having problems with them is actually con for Sakura.



AdamWiz said:


> It's S-rank because it's a powerful technique that grants It's user super regeneration. There are mant S-rank jutsus that are not necessarily kinjutsu.


So? This one is S-rank because it's kinjustu that harms user(cell division yeah) just like initial FRS does.



AdamWiz said:


> It doesn't require big reserves, it requires extremely delicate chakra control as stated by the author himself. Sakura does not have large chakra reserves yet still has a big amount of chakra stored in her seal thanks to her CC.


Author did not state anything like that Sakura created seal by continuously seeping her chakra into it in span of 3years, Tsunde created seal again within weeks after Pain attack. It's definitely matter of chakra when even Dan can recreated it by giving all his chakra.     



AdamWiz said:


> Does natural strength matter? Especially when Sakura's CES punch as soon as she activated Byakugo surpasses any strength feat Tsunade has shown.


That's true hypocrisy right here - so we must accept that Tsunade cannot have smash as big if she wants to(being taijutsu specialist she rather hit enemies not ground) *because the fact it was never shown*, but at same time we must accept that Sakura super powerups during time skip *despite the fact it was never shown*?



AdamWiz said:


> And Tsunade is not as good as Gai in Taijutsu


She good enough to have same max stat as him though we don't know how much it goes for both of them after the max show value, still she good enough with CQC to fight with EMS/Rinnegan user in it.



AdamWiz said:


> She's a specialist for sure, but not as good as Gai. Sakura has a 5 out of 5 in Taijutsu as well, but that does not mean that she's near Gai's taijutsu level since he also has a 5 out of 5 in taijutsu.


No she does not. Her max value was 3.



AdamWiz said:


> Katsuyu is a powerful summon, that's a fact. She's held in such a high regard in this forum for a good reason.


Name me at least one being Katsuyu defeated?



AdamWiz said:


> She's indestructible and has crazy durability feats (tanking a CST, etc..)


Sorry I am not following all acronyms what CST is?



AdamWiz said:


> Not to mention her acid, which is hard to dodge as stated in the second databook, page 241 I believe.


So? Hard to dodge is another vague statement who did it hit anyways and what damage it did?



AdamWiz said:


> And then we have her long distance: immense healing network which can save an entire army.


Does not benefit Sakura at all.



AdamWiz said:


> Her damaging Kaguya is the feat, not her landing a hit.


Madara ripped same horn out himself single-handedly without any problem, people overestimate durability of these bone crowns. Then again Sakura damage to Kaguya's face was not more than what Naruto caused after reverse harem.


AdamWiz said:


> She was able to evade it for a few seconds.


So? What she did is not feat at all it's just running away in panic, how you guys manage to twist any action into some kind Kage lvl feat?



AdamWiz said:


> ??
> It's simply just another thing that puts Sakura in the kage tier.


No, just having more chakra does not put you anywhere. By this logic children Naruto and Nagato are both Kage lvl because of their chakra reserves.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Veracity (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> .


That's essentially one same technique, and Kage level is vague statement again it's S-rank kinjustu, or Rather it's S-rank because it's kinjutsu, then again it's only needs CC higher than Shizune's or big chakra reserves like Tsunade has.


No, Tsunade has CES and natural-supernatural strength and taijustu specialist of Gai's lvl - there is no way that they are same, when she only has CES.

If you add Kage lvl at everything, it does not make it Kage level. Also P1 Naruto is now Kage lvl now.

 that root of problem, you guys actually believe that this is feat.

 What do you mean dodged?! Kakashi saved her.

Again Genin P1 Naruto is Kage now he even without fox seal has large chakra.
[/QUOTE]

It's not the same technique at all. You have to learn the Yin seal first and then you have to learn Byakago. Tsuande didn't even have Byakago back in Part 1, as she learned it between then and the War Arc. It's not only S-Ranked but defined as the pinnacle of chakra control in the data book. Having top tier chakra control and then using said chakra control to gain the ability of _ultimate_ regeneration is Kage level. An Elite Jounin like Shizune said it was completely out of her capabilities to learn the Yin seal let alone Byakago and she can't even summon Katsuyu

Uh yes there is lol. If Sakura adds more chakra to her strikes she can match the output of Tsuande's. We've been over this in the last thread. You can start there if you want.

Lmao. Part 1 Naruto not only couldn't consistently summon bunta but the Chief for sure wasn't taking commands from Naruto like Katsuyu takes command from Sakura. Naruto also isn't compatible with bunta; there are no combination attacks and they don't benefit from pooling their abilities together.

So you're going to ignore feats when they don't suit your argument? Okay lol.

She successfully dodged the first chakra arm maneuver, the same chakra arms that were stated to be fast by god tiers.

Use your head. Having large chakra in conjunction with all the other things listed is what makes her Kage level. Being disingenuous and adding an emote after it is most certainly not a strong argument.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 30, 2017)

Veracity said:


> It's not the same technique at all. You have to learn the Yin seal first and then you have to learn Byakago. Tsuande didn't even have Byakago back in Part 1, as she learned it between then and the War Arc. It's not only S-Ranked but defined as the pinnacle of chakra control in the data book. Having top tier chakra control and then using said chakra control to gain the ability of _ultimate_ regeneration is Kage level. An Elite Jounin like Shizune said it was completely out of her capabilities to learn the Yin seal let alone Byakago and she can't even summon Katsuyu


Man it's very hard to argue person with his own delusions - Yin seal and Byakugo being same it common knowledge but even if we assume they are not then Sakura does not have Yin seal - for sole reason it never being mentioned, when Shizune spoke about she only talked about Byakugo so there you have it. For someone who claims to be Tsunade's fan you know very little about it.



Veracity said:


> Uh yes there is lol. If Sakura adds more chakra to her strikes she can match the output of Tsuande's. We've been over this in the last thread. You can start there if you want.


You logic falters at facts that Tsunade can do same then, more so having better natural strength and more natural chakra she can hit way harder your formula of chakra addition.



Veracity said:


> Lmao. Part 1 Naruto not only couldn't consistently summon bunta


He actually used him in battle.



Veracity said:


> but the Chief for sure wasn't taking commands from Naruto like Katsuyu takes command from Sakura. Naruto also isn't compatible with bunta;


Need I remind you Sakura calls slug "Sama"?!


Veracity said:


> there are no combination attacks and they don't benefit from pooling their abilities together.


They have beaten biju together, but sure.



Veracity said:


> So you're going to ignore feats when they don't suit your argument? Okay lol.
> 
> She successfully dodged the first chakra arm maneuver, the same chakra arms that were stated to be fast by god tiers.


Lol and then you stans surprised when people question why heck you guys made these threads about Sakura. You are using as argument of Sakura being Kage lvl - the fact that she run away from huge ass gigantic chakra arm and managed to remain alive for literally few seconds?!



Veracity said:


> Use your head. Having large chakra in conjunction with all the other things listed is what makes her Kage level. Being disingenuous and adding an emote after it is most certainly not a strong argument.


Nope, only thing that benefits from her chakra levels is her CES(somehow) and her self heal.
Ces benefit does not make her Kage level because otherwise any hard and big hitting ninja is Kage lvl - like Choji. Heal also not so big overturn since it only helps against ninjas within or below her range(with few exceptions). Then again we still don't know of her heal can save her from head being chopped off - which is all Kage lvl and many high Jonin lvs can do to Sakura with ease.


I will answer to following posts later, I kinda busy right now.

Reactions: Dislike 3


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## Veracity (Oct 30, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> Man it's very hard to argue person with his own delusions - Yin seal and Byakugo being same it common knowledge but even if we assume they are not then Sakura does not have Yin seal - for sole reason it never being mentioned, when Shizune spoke about she only talked about Byakugo so there you have it. For someone who claims to be Tsunade's fan you know very little about it.
> 
> 
> You logic falters at facts that Tsunade can do same then, more so having better natural strength and more natural chakra she can hit way harder your formula of chakra addition.
> ...



Bro what are you talking about? I know you read the manga so I don't understand why you are ignoring easy to grasp concepts just to downplay Sakura. The accumulation of chakra into the diamond shape on Sakura's forehead is the Yin seal and the release of the seal supplies Sakura with the Chaka necessary to use Byakago; the ultimate regeneration. They are two very different things and you're being disingenuous for damn near no reason.

The logic doesn't falter anywhere you just keep ignoring it. Pulling more chakra from the Yin seal or using a more refined version of CES makes up the difference in physical strength; as shown with feats.

I guess you missed the part where Bunta stated he wouldn't have helped Naruto if it wasn't for his son being bullied therefore bunta isn't a reliable source of power for Naruto in Part 1.

Doesn't matter what Sakura calls Katsuyu, the slug is going to follow her commands if summoned. Jirayia holds the elder sages in high regard yet they are still assets to his power nobody denies this. The same goes for Naruto honestly.

The fact that she could react and partially avoid an attack that was deemed quick by *Riduko Naruto* is impressive. I give credit  where it's due.

So having more chakra to use more powerful CES, to use Byakago more often, to summon larger portions of Katsuyu and to use her Yin seal to boost Katsuyu's durability and acid is just something we should ignore? Having more chakra literally increases everything about Sakura and you are just writing it off because " lol it's Sakura." The bias is leaking rn.  And then you go on to state that hitting hard enough to mist any shinobi with lesser durability than Madara's RC( damn near everybody in the manga) and having the ultimate regeneration aren't Kage level attributes? Like what? Just because you say it isn't impressive doesn't mean you're correct. I can make anything sound lackluster with specific diction. I guess Hashirama just walks around sprouting trees and A3 runs around fingering people. Doesn't sound Kage level to me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## FearIsGood (Oct 30, 2017)

These Sakura feats are a bit over reaching. Like her barely moving out of Kaguya's arm speed? Anyone faster than Sakura would just have an easier time in the same situation.

Reminds me how people took Sakura punching a pillar in the Boruto film and freeze framing the punch to show how her fist didn't connect. So it must be she has air canon fist punches. However, animation studios don't exactly consider hard core Sakura fans to freeze frame their animations for feats! It's simply a missing frame of her not directly connecting her fist to the pillar because the scene happens so quickly no one notices it (suppose to since its animated. Not every frame has to be drawn to show an action scene). Just hardcore Sakura fans scrounging for feats.


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## Pumpkin Potion (Oct 31, 2017)

Veracity said:


> We can see how many think Sakura is truly " chunin" level throughout the course of this thread



You can think it all you want but the question is can you provide evdience that she is not a Chunin in the war arc.

What you are trying to do here is something called.

*Bandwagon Fallacy*: The belief that an argument is valid because a majority of people accept it. For example, everyone I know Thinks Sakura is kage level, so She's obviously is. but no one has any proof that supports this claim.

Proof is what I will take not your logical fallacy.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Veracity (Oct 31, 2017)

Nerosmoke said:


> You can think it all you want but the question is can you provide evdience that she is not a Chunin in the war arc.
> 
> What you are trying to do here is something called.
> 
> *Bandwagon Fallacy*: The belief that an argument is valid because a majority of people accept it. For example, everyone I know Thinks Sakura is kage level, so She's obviously is. but no one has any proof that supports this claim.



There's actually a lot of proof in this thread, you should read through the replies.


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## Pumpkin Potion (Oct 31, 2017)

Veracity said:


> There's actually a lot of proof in this thread, you should read through the replies.



Post the scan in your next respond to me.


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## Veracity (Oct 31, 2017)

Nerosmoke said:


> Post the scan in your next respond to me.


@AdamWiz literally posted every single scan I was referring too.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 31, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Bro what are you talking about? I know you read the manga so I don't understand why you are ignoring easy to grasp concepts just to downplay Sakura. The accumulation of chakra into the diamond shape on Sakura's forehead is the Yin seal and the release of the seal supplies Sakura with the Chaka necessary to use Byakago; the ultimate regeneration. They are two very different things and you're being disingenuous for damn near no reason.


You know Byakugo full name is _Byakugō no In _so either way you claiming that there are two different seal or you need to read manga again.



Veracity said:


> The logic doesn't falter anywhere you just keep ignoring it. Pulling more chakra from the Yin seal or using a more refined version of CES makes up the difference in physical strength; as shown with feats.


What stops Tsunade then? Considering she actually has more chakra.



Veracity said:


> I guess you missed the part where Bunta stated he wouldn't have helped Naruto if it wasn't for his son being bullied therefore bunta isn't a reliable source of power for Naruto in Part 1.


I guess you have missed part where Jman showed him contract and Bunta said there was no need for it. Then again you are overreaching, only reason bunta did not wanted fight was because he was fighting Biju together with genin so it's understandable. 




Veracity said:


> Doesn't matter what Sakura calls Katsuyu, the slug is going to follow her commands if summoned. Jirayia holds the elder sages in high regard yet they are still assets to his power nobody denies this. The same goes for Naruto honestly.


So is Bunta to Naruto - you are first one denying it here. 



Veracity said:


> The fact that she could react and partially avoid an attack that was deemed quick by *Riduko Naruto* is impressive. I give credit  where it's due.


No credit for argument from authority because words quick itself vague.



Veracity said:


> So having more chakra to use more powerful CES,


Again more powerful than what? Tsunade does only ground when she needs to scare someone - in actual fight she never used this kind of attacks instead fighting directly with opponent in CQC, claim that Tsunade cannon punch ground as hard as Sakura did hold no credibility and shows yours guys bias.


Veracity said:


> to use Byakago more often,


I don't know how more often you think Sakura uses it, but I doubt it's more often than surviving from multiple mortal wounds, saving entirety of village from death, lading fight against Madara and not only managing to survive but also save rest Kages from death while being bisected in half. What often use Sakura have? Being Obito battery? Such Kage feat*sarcasm* 


Veracity said:


> to summon larger portions of Katsuyu


She only did together with Tsunade so this is also defeats you claim about Sakura having more chakra in her seal.



Veracity said:


> and to use her Yin seal to boost Katsuyu's durability and acid is just something we should ignore?


Of course I would ignore that because this is morbid delusion Sakura never done something like this.


Veracity said:


> Having more chakra literally increases everything about Sakura and you are just writing it off because " lol it's Sakura." The bias is leaking rn.


Having more chakra indeed powers her up - but having chakra alone is not proof of being Kage lvl by itself, nor stats boost she gets from them is nothing of of Kage lvl. So yeah it is bias - she is Sakura so she must be Kage lvl type of bias.



Veracity said:


> And then you go on to state that hitting hard enough to mist any shinobi with lesser durability than Madara's RC( damn near everybody in the manga) and having the ultimate regeneration aren't Kage level attributes?


Well of course simply speaking misting anyone is fanmade bullshit - only time Sakura hit someone considerble she only damaged one particular organ of shinobi who not known for any healing and durability feats. Speaking bluntly her hits on ninja is in same league like rasengan - which again Naruto knew since P1.

[QUOTE="Veracity, post: 57660069, member: 236849"
Like what? Just because you say it isn't impressive doesn't mean you're correct. I can make anything sound lackluster with specific diction. I guess Hashirama just walks around sprouting trees and A3 runs around fingering people. Doesn't sound Kage level to me.[/QUOTE]
Too bad Hashirama and A3 both were Kages to begin with so you argument is invalid to begin with. Then again I guess Choji fighting GM and Kakuzu and shitton of WZ is not Kage feat too. And yeah Kajukai Korin is one hell of impressive and if Jigokuzuki is not impressive then Raikiri and Chidori either - they are.

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## Pumpkin Potion (Oct 31, 2017)

@Doc Mindstorm thanks I was thinking she had two seals based on some of the post from the Choji vs Sakura thread.


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## Veracity (Oct 31, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> You know Byakugo full name is _Byakugō no In _so either way you claiming that there are two different seal or you need to read manga again.
> 
> 
> What stops Tsunade then? Considering she actually has more chakra.
> ...


Too bad Hashirama and A3 both were Kages to begin with so you argument is invalid to begin with. Then again I guess Choji fighting GM and Kakuzu and shitton of WZ is not Kage feat too. And yeah Kajukai Korin is one hell of impressive and if Jigokuzuki is not impressive then Raikiri and Chidori either - they are.[/QUOTE]

Yes because Byakago is derivitive from the Yin Seal and that's where it gets it gets the chakra to fuel the regeneration from. But then again you definitely know this.

Tsuande doesn't have more chakra in her Yin Seal.

Doesn't change the fact that Naruto cannot summon Bunta consistently and do you need me to post the scan where bunta states the only reason he aided Naruto was because of his son? Bunta was definitely not taking commands from Naruto in Part 1. Don't kid yourself.

Lol so now we are acting like we don't know what the word quick means? Do you need an excerpt from the dictionary?

Feats wise she drew blood from Kaguya and before you use the " her horn is weak " argument you still have to consider the fact that she is a freaking god tier, consider the fact that Evening elephant barely took off Gai's horn, and then consider that Kaguya took a multi riduko amped FRS to the face and her horn was unscathed.

Why does Sakura have to have the same feats as Tsuande to be considered Kage level? Ask yourself that question. You keep drawing a conclusion to Tsuande as if Tsuande is the baseline for Kage. Sakura doesn't even have to be at that level to be Kage level.

Tsuande and Sakura can both summon larger portions( larger than the regular boss summon) of Katsuyu all they went. It's drawn straight from their Yin seal hence the fact that the size various based on the power in their seal. More chakra = larger Katsuyu. Sakura can't summon 10% alone for sure but she can summon more than conventional sized one if she needs it.

But we know Sakura can do it because we know her abilities. Same way I know Tsuande can run on water despite never seeing it with my actual eyes. If Sakura can link to Katsuyu she can use its chakra the same way Tsuande does. And she has done this more than once.

Of course having more chakra alone doesn't make you Kage level but I don't understand why you and Nero keep stating this? As if that's the _*only*_ thing Sakura has for her. It's not. So why do you keep using that logic? Tsuande can punch hard as fuck but that alone doesn't make her Kage level, but we know that SHE CAN DO MORE THEN THAT. Same applies to Sakura.

Are you talking about when she hit Shin? Because she didn't have her Yin Seal active meaning she could only pull from her base reserves; which I'm pretty sure you would agree aren't impressive. So yeah no, hurting Kaguya would also give Sakura validation of misting a person easily. Tsuande can mist a person so I would assume Sakura could.

So then I should simply just change my example to someone that isn't a named kage lol okay. I guess Itachi pulling up a thin wall of chakra over his ass and shotting black flames out his eyes is just lame. No sense of claiming its Kage level.

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## JiraiyaFlash (Oct 31, 2017)

She is a kage level but ı dont know about those matches. Maybe can take out Kakashi but others just too tricky. But even w/o any victory against those.. Yes she can be consider as Kage Leveler.


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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 31, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Yes because Byakago is derivitive from the Yin Seal and that's where it gets it gets the chakra to fuel the regeneration from. But then again you definitely know this.


Again it's two different names for same seal.



Veracity said:


> Tsuande doesn't have more chakra in her Yin Seal.


Nor does Sakura.



Veracity said:


> Doesn't change the fact that Naruto cannot summon Bunta consistently and do you need me to post the scan where bunta states the only reason he aided Naruto was because of his son? Bunta was definitely not taking commands from Naruto in Part 1. Don't kid yourself.


He needed him and summoned and Bunta did his work - the one kidding yourself is you.



Veracity said:


> Lol so now we are acting like we don't know what the word quick means? Do you need an excerpt from the dictionary?


Lol we know what quick mean - Naruto could have called any shiniobi running - quick that is relative term more Naruto was in battle - you are assuming that Naruto used term based on his own stats but considering Naruto is team players it's more than plausible that used term considering average quickness of all of allies where Sakura is lowest denominator. So yeah arm is quick enough to caught up Sakura in seconds I don't see how this is feat for her though.



Veracity said:


> Feats wise she drew blood from Kaguya and before you use the " her horn is weak " argument you still have to consider the fact that she is a freaking god tier, consider the fact that Evening elephant barely took off Gai's horn, and then consider that Kaguya took a multi riduko amped FRS to the face and her horn was unscathed.


Maybe because these attacks were not aimed at horns? Also using Same logic Naruto tore Kaguya's arm with fist(thousands times more better stregth feat than Sakuras) so he can pulverize people?



Veracity said:


> Why does Sakura have to have the same feats as Tsuande to be considered Kage level? Ask yourself that question.


Because Tsunade damn Hokage. And realistically speaking in Kage tier she only little higher than low Kage.


Veracity said:


> You keep drawing a conclusion to Tsuande as if Tsuande is the baseline for Kage. Sakura doesn't even have to be at that level to be Kage level.


Well you know that conceded your point of Sakura surpassing Tsunade by this?



Veracity said:


> Tsuande and Sakura can both summon larger portions( larger than the regular boss summon) of Katsuyu all they went. It's drawn straight from their Yin seal hence the fact that the size various based on the power in their seal. More chakra = larger Katsuyu. Sakura can't summon 10% alone for sure but she can summon more than conventional sized one if she needs it.


Reread manga again - Tsunade and Sakura together as two Byakugo users can summon 10% none of them able doing that alone. Man you really need to read manga again.



Veracity said:


> But we know Sakura can do it because we know her abilities. Same way I know Tsuande can run on water despite never seeing it with my actual eyes. If Sakura can link to Katsuyu she can use its chakra the same way Tsuande does. And she has done this more than once.


But we know Tsunade can hit ground as hard as Sakura because we know her abilities. But you deny it by saying that Sakura hits harder than Tsunade - hypocrite much? Also your claim was that Sakura can enhance Katsuyu durability and acide - not even Tsunade done these thing you literally taking them out of your ass.



Veracity said:


> Of course having more chakra alone doesn't make you Kage level but I don't understand why you and Nero keep stating this? As if that's the _*only*_ thing Sakura has for her. It's not. So why do you keep using that logic? Tsuande can punch hard as fuck but that alone doesn't make her Kage level, but we know that SHE CAN MORE THEN THAT. Same applies to Sakura.


As I already said Sakura with seal able beat only ones that at her lvl (with some exceptions) out of people that considered Kage lvl she cannot win against anyone - only way to make her Kage lvl if she becomes new lower borderline of Kage lvl this also makes everyone who stronger than her but in Kage tier - Kage lvl by default.



Veracity said:


> Are you talking about when she hit Shin? Because she didn't have her Yin Seal active meaning she could only pull from her base reserves; which I'm pretty sure you would agree aren't impressive. So yeah no, hurting Kaguya would also give Sakura validation of misting a person easily. Tsuande can mist a person so I would assume Sakura could.


Lol so when Sakura hit ground with Jubimons she was using her seal - despite it only being mark on her forehead but in case of shin she was not using with same mark? Also never misted anyone she only blew off part of ET Madara who is hardly can be considered human in terms composition.



Veracity said:


> So then I should simply just change my example to someone that isn't a name Kage lol okay. I guess Itachi pulling up a thin wall of chakra over his ass and shotting black flames out his eyes is just lame. No sense of claiming its Kage level.


Lol. I bet you don't what Kage lvl is either do you? Kage lvl is level of shinobi who can take on fight(1v1) with Kage(be it Ho, Tsuch, Mizu, Rai or Kaze) or other Kage lvl and win. Itachi can do that, Sakura cannot.

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## Zensuki (Oct 31, 2017)

FearIsGood said:


> Like her barely moving out of Kaguya's arm speed?



Kaguya's arm speed is something 6 Paths Naruto had trouble dodging so being able to dodge it initially is a speed feat whether one likes it or not. 



FearIsGood said:


> Reminds me how people took Sakura punching a pillar in the Boruto film and freeze framing the punch to show how her fist didn't connect. So it must be she has air canon fist punches. However, animation studios don't exactly consider hard core Sakura fans to freeze frame their animations for feats! It's simply a missing frame of her not directly connecting her fist to the pillar because the scene happens so quickly no one notices it (suppose to since its animated. Not every frame has to be drawn to show an action scene). Just hardcore Sakura fans scrounging for feats.



Actually her fist did connect and what you wrote is no different than Naruto fans looking at the animation and trying to find the crater size of his punch or insert any other manga feat that laughably assumes Kishi is drawing to scale all the time

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Veracity (Oct 31, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> Again it's two different names for same seal.
> 
> 
> Nor does Sakura.
> ...



Does that change the fact that the Yin Seal itself and Byakago are two different techniques? That was my intial point.

By feats Sakura actually does; dimensional transfer of Obito while low on chakra supports this.

So are you to ignore the fact that bunta stated he would not have helped Naruto of it wasn't for the circumstance? If your intial claim was that Part 1 Naruto was Kage level because if bunta then you are wrong here. Stop beating around the bush and accept that you supplied a poor example.

Nope. You outright ignored the fact that after Naruto called the chakra arms fast he warned Sasuke(another god tier) of their lethality. He would not have made that claim if they weren't fast in general.

Huh? Naruto's attack swallowed Kaguya fully as in she was completely caught in its AoE. Her horns were directly hit but simply uneffected. Gai punched Madara directly in his face and it clearly effected the horns seeing how they cracked off.

Tsuande is definitely above low Kage, as are all the Sannin.

When have I said Sakura completely surpassed Tsuande and what does that have to do with Sakura being Kage level.

I know exactly what the panel says. But if you analyze the manga deeper you would realize the size of Katsuyu is contingent upon the amount of chakra the user pours into the summon hence the difference in size between the Katsuyu summoned at the deadlock to the one summoned during the Pain Arc to the one summoned when Tsuande was super low on chakra. It's contingent upon chakra, it's simple.

Tsuande hitting the ground _*as hard as*_ Sakura is fine by me. I don't necessarily push the notion that Sakura is stronger just that she isn't massively inferior like you claim. It isn't necessarily increasing durability but fueling Katsuyu with chakra to protect whatever Katsuyu is defending inside her body as shown with CST. Sakura and Tsuande have also been shown to boost ninjustu and Katsuyu's acid is ninjustu so...

An Edo Tensei's durability is proportionate to their living body hence A3's hype in general. Madara would have exploded like that alive or not, what's more is that Tsuande already busted his RC Sussano so it's even more clear.

Sakura can take on Kage lol. Hokage Kakashi gets crushed, Old Hiruzen takes an L, Rasa gets pasted, Mei arguably loses, etc etc.

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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 31, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Does that change the fact that the Yin Seal itself and Byakago are two different techniques? That was my intial point.
> 
> By feats Sakura actually does; dimensional transfer of Obito while low on chakra supports this.
> 
> ...


It does, they are not. 

Again does not: Sakura never said she is low on chakra that's again you made up.

You are ignoring that Bunta actually helped Naruto and he used bunta later on without problem either, you are made up whole excuse about Bunta not listening Naruto just to deny that having summon itself is not Kage feat.

I did not, but you ignored the fact that Sakura only managed to have seconds against it and claim that this is Kage lvl feat, you claim it as if she managed against arm where she did not - Kakashi saved her from her death.

Naruto then torn Kaguya apart - or you are saying that Horn is more durable than arm, while less durable than face?!
Also using FRS attack on Kaguya while claiming that her horns were unaffected, rest of her body as not affected either so? 

Just what I said.

To bad you have no proofs of her surpassing Tsunade otherwise this thread would have been pointless.

You know nothing: you claimed that Sakura can argument slug's durability and acid - now prove that instead moving goalpost.

But this is whole actual(the only) proof of her surpassing Tsunade, without it there even less to claim. And again frikin prove that slug gets ups from chakra...

Your claim was that Tsunade mistified someone if Madara was alive(again Madara is not example of some durability feasts either) he would suffer hole in his center - this is lethal but he was nowhere near of being turned into mist, also do not forget it was Mokubunshin and not real ET Madara either.

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## Veracity (Oct 31, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> It does, they are not.
> 
> Again does not: Sakura never said she is low on chakra that's again you made up.
> 
> ...



One accumulates chakra in the forehead and the other uses said chakra for regeneration, how are those the same? Tsuande didn't even have Byakago in Part 1 she only had SS. Is SS, the Yin seal and Byakago all the same thing now? No, they are literally different.

She was stated to be low on chakra right before she started assisting " dead Naruto." Do you need a chapter and a page?

He helped Naruto because his own son was being bullied by Gaara. Bunta literally told Naruto he wasn't going to fight with him before he found out about the bullying. Stop ignoring this, shits important. Naruto also never used bunta again in Part 1.

Dodging something deemed fast by a god tier even for seconds is still impressive. After all God tiers are head and shoulders above people even like Hashirama/EMS Madara.

I can't understand some of things you are saying at this point. All we know for sure is that Kaguya wasn't effected much by Riduko FRS yet took damage from Sakura's punch soooo...

The thread isnt about being superior to Tsunade rather being Kage level in general.

Durability may have been a bad term, that's my bad. She can use chakra to protect beings inside Katsuyu. But yeah she also can boost ninjustu which is in fact Katsuyu's acid. Nobody is shifting posts here.

The proof is the difference in size everytime Tsuande has summoned the slug since  the very start, with the most notable difference being how small the slug was when she summoned it with very low chakra. NF makes posting scans hard so I can refer you to every chapter if the need arises.

Mist is a general exaggeration we use here I didn't think that needed clarification. Tsuande and Sakura are still capable of making people explode with punches as seen with Madara and his Sussano. Wood clones are just as durable as the user hence Madara being feinted by Hashirama during VoTE. If you still ignore this Tsuande already obliterated Madara's Sussano which is > to Madara in durability so he explodes anyway.

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## Doc Mindstorm (Oct 31, 2017)

Veracity said:


> One accumulates chakra in the forehead and the other uses said chakra for regeneration, how are those the same? Tsuande didn't even have Byakago in Part 1 she only had SS. Is SS, the Yin seal and Byakago all the same thing now? No, they are literally different.


Again Yin and Byakugo are both seals so either they have two seals or it just two names like Raikiri and Chidori.(it's latter)



Veracity said:


> She was stated to be low on chakra right before she started assisting " dead Naruto." Do you need a chapter and a page?


No, Tsunade said that she and Shizune are low on chakra and Sakura is only one with chakra left =/= low on chakra.



Veracity said:


> He helped Naruto because his own son was being bullied by Gaara. Bunta literally told Naruto he wasn't going to fight with him before he found out about the bullying. Stop ignoring this, shits important. Naruto also never used bunta again in Part 1.


You know that P1 ended with after only one following fight that Naruto fully participated? VotE fight. This most sore far fetched claim I ever seen. 



Veracity said:


> Dodging something deemed fast by a god tier even for seconds is still impressive. After all God tiers are head and shoulders above people even like Hashirama/EMS Madara.


Another false equivalence, it's not impressive it's expected and bellow Kage lvl. 



Veracity said:


> I can't understand some of things you are saying at this point. All we know for sure is that Kaguya wasn't effected much by Riduko FRS yet took damage from Sakura's punch soooo...


Man read manga again, I grow tired telling this to you. Kaguya wasn't affected by FRS at all because Ninjutsu does not work on her only thing she was affected by was Biju chakra resonating with FRSes. Taijutsu on other hand work well on her and considering Naruto ripped her off, Sakuras who is primary taijutsu user only dealing this little damage is very pitiable.



Veracity said:


> The thread isnt about being superior to Tsunade rather being Kage level in general.


And answer she is not to both.



Veracity said:


> Durability may have been a bad term, that's my bad. She can use chakra to protect beings inside Katsuyu. But yeah she also can boost ninjustu which is in fact Katsuyu's acid. Nobody is shifting posts here.


She cannot protect them either she can heal damage done to them because slug transfers SS heal to them. Thing about boosting nin you need to prove because only several things like SM, Biju chakra or SP chakra can do that. 



Veracity said:


> The proof is the difference in size everytime Tsuande has summoned the slug since  the very start, with the most notable difference being how small the slug was when she summoned it with very low chakra. NF makes posting scans hard so I can refer you to every chapter if the need arises.


What what?! Like hell this is proof to anything. She used slug as radio during WW4 early days, Katsuyu was pointless against against Madara. So you are using absence of evidence as evidence of absence?! I am really tired of you logical fallacies here. That's not proof.



Veracity said:


> Mist is a general exaggeration we use here I didn't think that needed clarification. Tsuande and Sakura are still capable of making people explode with punches as seen with Madara and his Sussano. Wood clones are just as durable as the user hence Madara being feinted by Hashirama during VoTE. If you still ignore this Tsuande already obliterated Madara's Sussano which is > to Madara in durability so he explodes anyway.


No they are not any clone weaker than Original in all terms because he uses only portion of original chakra - that's fact. Also word explode is also exaggeration because making holes in someone =/= explode. And lastly initial claim was that Sakura doing it you are in best proving Tsunade doing it. Actual hit of Sakura did not do anything like that(Shin). As I remember you tried to make rebuttal that Sakura did not activate seal. But so favored by her Stans picture of her devastating jubimons proves otherwise. Your only saving grace - is to claim that CES works differently on grounds and ninja and ninjas need more chakra but even in this case this does not prove Sakura having ability "explode" people by her hits.

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## Pumpkin Potion (Oct 31, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Sakura can take on Kage lol. Hokage Kakashi gets crushed, Old Hiruzen takes an L, Rasa gets pasted, Mei arguably loses, etc etc.


 Kakashi has to save her life 6 times and Sasuke 1 shot her with Genjutsu.


Serene Grace said:


> I have yet to see anyone counter why she isn't kage level
> 
> Even if you don't think she isn't kage level, possessing Katsuyu is more than a enough
> 
> I mean I despise sakura, but this is just



I have yet to see anyone post a scan showing she is.

-Kakashi has them
-Itachi has them
-The 7 Swordsmen of the Mist has them
-Shikamaru has them

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## The_Conqueror (Oct 31, 2017)

Why is combat only taken as a requisite for being a kage level is beyond me? 
She is  combatant+ support.  

No one gives a fuck about being some one who could support.  Can heal a platoon /boost sb and still is a very capable fighter none the less.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Braiyan (Oct 31, 2017)

Sakura can summon the same amount of Katsuyu that Tsunade could in the Pain arc, and replicate much of the same feats like remote healing. The mere fact that she can replicate a kage's significant feats to a similar level would indicate she's kage level.

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## Euraj (Oct 31, 2017)

Braiyan said:


> Sakura can summon the same amount of Katsuyu that Tsunade could in the Pain arc, and replicate much of the same feats like remote healing. The mere fact that she can replicate a kage's significant feats to a similar level would indicate she's kage level.


Well apparently, abilities implied through inductive reasoning aren't valid.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## AdamWiz (Oct 31, 2017)

Doc Mindstorm said:


> And you proofs of Tsunade not training during timeskip just like you have proof of Sakura training during it?


What timeskip? If you're talking about the Tsunade Search Arc, then the mere fact that she was called rusty is enough proof that she stopped training for a few years.

And let's change the topic, we've already had this discussion before and I'm not willing to dwell further into this subject.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> But just like you said Intentions of Kish were clear and toddler Tsuna is how he remembered her.



I just had a feeling you'd actually think this, and I'm not surprised tbh. Hashirama comparing Sakura to Tsunade indicates Sakura's growth as a Kunoichi, nothing more and nothing less.

I myself believe that Sakura did not surpass Tsunade in the war arc, but she most likely did as either a Jonin (19 years old) or an Adult (32 years old). the whole "new gen surpasses the old gen" thing in this series applies here.

Again, let's not talk about Tsunade in this thread.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> Because they never showed anything damaging or dangerous to any character at all. And Pre-Byakugo Sakura having problems with them is actually con for Sakura.


Whether these "fodders" were dangerous or not doesn't matter, the *AoE* of her punch is what's important.



Doc Mindstorm said:


> So? This one is S-rank because it's kinjustu that harms user(cell division yeah) just like initial FRS does.


It's dangerous *and *powerful at the same time. Are you actually trying to argue with me that Byakugo is not powerful? Because surviving a TSB stab screams "powerful" to me.

Here is an entire list of S-rank techniques, and only some of them are kinjutsu:



Doc Mindstorm said:


> Author did not state anything like that Sakura created seal by continuously seeping her chakra into it in span of 3years, Tsunde created seal again within weeks after Pain attack. It's definitely matter of chakra when even Dan can recreated it by giving all his chakra.


You are not getting it. Yes, chakra reserves can help you achieve Byakugo faster than others, but you can't achieve it when you don't have the required level of CC, no matter how large your reserves are.

Both Tsunade and Sakura deserve their props for continuously collecting chakra in a tiny spot on their forehead with no conscious effort.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> That's true hypocrisy right here - so we must accept that Tsunade cannot have smash as big if she wants to(being taijutsu specialist she rather hit enemies not ground) *because the fact it was never shown*, but at same time we must accept that Sakura super powerups during time skip *despite the fact it was never shown*?


Tsunade cannot smash as hard as Sakura simply because of feats.
Here is Tsunade smashing this ground, completely bloodlusted:

(Used an anime scan because it looks more impressive here)
And here is Sakura smashing the ground, bloodlusted as well:

And here she is, as an Adult, destroying debris despite barely touching it (focus on the shockwave effect)

The entire debris weren't even connected to each other yet Sakura managed to annihilate it all 

I'm waiting for you to call this a fodder feat.

As for your second question, we do see that Sakura got stronger over the timeskip because:
1) She, alongside Shikamaru, was the only one that was promoted to Jonin.
2) She got a 5/5 in medical ninjutsu and taijutsu in the 3rd Boruto databook.
3) She was able to fight evenly with an MS user, despite getting overwhelmed at the last second.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> She good enough to have same max stat as him though we don't know how much it goes for both of them after the max show value, still she good enough with CQC to fight with EMS/Rinnegan user in it.


1) That was a Wood clone
2) When did she fight him with CQC? I mean, not only was he toying with the Five Kage, she also had 4 other Kage fighting with here, 3 of which are diverse long range fighters. If you're talking about her landing a punch on Madara, then that's an impressive feat, but Sakura did the same thing when she surprised a guy with MS all over his body.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> No she does not. Her max value was 3.


Check the 3rd Boruto databook, she got a 5/5 in both taijutsu and medical ninjutsu.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> Name me at least one being Katsuyu defeated?


... Katsuyu is not even the fighting type. Katsuyu is a support-type, and an incredible one. I'm talking about her durability feats and her long range acid jutsu that she has.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> Sorry I am not following all acronyms what CST is?


The Shinra Tensei that was able to entirely destroy Konoha. Tsunade used her to protect the villagers from CST, but it was too chakra-taxing I think.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> So? Hard to dodge is another vague statement who did it hit anyways and what damage it did?


"vague statement" It seems like anything that you don't like to read is vague now. If it was stated in the 2nd databook, then it's a valid statement.
It's acidic, you should know what kind of damage it does, because it sure as hell will damage anyone who doesn't have an absolute defense and super durability.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> Does not benefit Sakura at all.


It DOES benefit Sakura AND her comrades. This jutsu is not some regular medical ninjutsu. Just because a jutsu is not all about smashy smash does not mean that it doesn't benefit anyone.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> Madara ripped same horn out himself single-handedly without any problem, people overestimate durability of these bone crowns. Then again Sakura damage to Kaguya's face was not more than what Naruto caused after reverse harem.


I'm not talking about Kaguya's horn. And Naruto is superior to Sakura in strength, that's a known fact.

She's still able to damage someone with immense durability (Kaguya tanked Naruto's rasenshuriken variants like nothing happened).


Doc Mindstorm said:


> So? What she did is not feat at all it's just running away in panic, how you guys manage to twist any action into some kind Kage lvl feat?


I'm not even calling it a Kage lvl feat, I'm simply just referring to your statement that Sakura did not evade it for a moment.

It just showcases Sakura's speed, she was able to avoid the Bijuu Arm for some time.


Doc Mindstorm said:


> No, just having more chakra does not put you anywhere. By this logic children Naruto and Nagato are both Kage lvl because of their chakra reserves.



You can have all the chakra reserves in the world, but it doesn't mean shit when you don't know how to use it. Part I Naruto had huge chakra reserves but wasn't anything special, simple.

and Nagato is Kage lvl by default since he has the rinnegan

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Veracity (Oct 31, 2017)

Pumpkin Potion said:


> Kakashi has to save her life 6 times and Sasuke 1 shot her with Genjutsu.



When did Hokage Kakashi save her life 6 times lol and what does Riduko Sasuke have to do with anything lol?


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## Pumpkin Potion (Oct 31, 2017)

Veracity said:


> When did Hokage Kakashi save her life 6 times lol and what does Riduko Sasuke have to do with anything lol?



All the times Kakashi has saved Sakura prob need to be a thread on it's own
The time with Sasuke comes to mind the and the other time with Sasuke comes to mind.


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## Veracity (Oct 31, 2017)

Pumpkin Potion said:


> All the times Kakashi has saved Sakura prob need to be a thread on it's own
> The time with Sasuke comes to mind the and the other time with Sasuke comes to mind.


_Hokage Kakashi_ hasn't saved Sakura at all, and that's only relevant Kakashi seeing how its the only Kage Kakashi.


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## FearIsGood (Oct 31, 2017)

AdamWiz said:


> What timeskip? If you're talking about the Tsunade Search Arc, then the mere fact that she was called rusty is enough proof that she stopped training for a few years.
> 
> And let's change the topic, we've already had this discussion before and I'm not willing to dwell further into this subject.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't take Boruto DB seriously. Konohamaru and Shikamaru are stronger than Naruto, Moegi is faster than Naruto and has Mokuton


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## Pumpkin Potion (Oct 31, 2017)

FearIsGood said:


> Wouldn't take Boruto DB seriously. Konohamaru and Shikamaru are stronger than Naruto, Moegi is faster than Naruto and has Mokuton



Shikamaru has shadow cantrol what is he going do about that.


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## FearIsGood (Oct 31, 2017)

Pumpkin Potion said:


> Shikamaru has shadow cantrol what is he going do about that.


Stronger as in Strength stat.


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## Speedyamell (Oct 31, 2017)

Ignoring the unreasonable angle of the thread..this thread should have an obvious answer..
Sakura>tsuna and tsuna was the strongest of her gokage..
The better question would be why *isn't* Sakura kage level by the war


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## Zensuki (Oct 31, 2017)

FearIsGood said:


> Wouldn't take Boruto DB seriously. Konohamaru and Shikamaru are stronger than Naruto, Moegi is faster than Naruto and has Mokuton



Incorrect. 
The Naruto databooks compliment Kishi's manga. The stats you are talking about come from the Boruto manga which is written by Kodachi/Ikemoto.


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## FearIsGood (Oct 31, 2017)

Zensuki said:


> Incorrect.
> The Naruto databooks compliment Kishi's manga. The stats you are talking about come from the Boruto manga which is written by Kodachi/Ikemoto.


I was quoting someone who was referencing Boruto DB.


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## Nuttynutdude (Nov 1, 2017)

Beyonce said:


> Sakura's two trick pony fighting style is a lot better than having a diverse move-pool that's weak as hell.


Whose move pool is weak as hell? Hiruzen's is not. And Kakashi's is definitely not. If we scale Hokage kakashi from war arc based on the relative time skip from part 1 to part 2, he should be quite a bit stronger than his war arc counterpart. (not including sharingan) He will be weaker due to his lack of Kamui, but his stamina went from nothing to everything in the war arc for whatever reason, and he was effortlessly cutting through bijuu tails. He can't use the raikiri cable anymore, but it is still debatable whether he can use his purple lighting to the same effect


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## Beyonce (Nov 1, 2017)

Nuttynutdude said:


> Whose move pool is weak as hell? Hiruzen's is not. And Kakashi's is definitely not. If we scale Hokage kakashi from war arc based on the relative time skip from part 1 to part 2, he should be quite a bit stronger than his war arc counterpart. (not including sharingan) He will be weaker due to his lack of Kamui, but his stamina went from nothing to everything in the war arc for whatever reason, and he was effortlessly cutting through bijuu tails. He can't use the raikiri cable anymore, but it is still debatable whether he can use his purple lighting to the same effect


Hiruzen AND Kakashi's move pool don't have the same damage output that Sakura can produce. And I'm not talking about destructive capability. 

There's a reason why Kakashi doesn't use those fodder elemental jutsus and only relies on the same 2 attacks. It's because 90% of his movepool is garbage. 

As for Hiruzen, his elemental skill-set is is evidently better than Kakashi's, but still nowhere near the point of doing more damage than what Sakura could do.

And that's why Sakura's 2-trick pony is a hell lot better than what Hirzuen or Hokage Kakashi can do.

Reactions: Like 2


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## genii96 (Nov 1, 2017)

As a medic,she is

As a fighter, not even close
These fanboys need to get off her a**


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## Nuttynutdude (Nov 1, 2017)

Beyonce said:


> Hiruzen AND Kakashi's move pool don't have the same damage output that Sakura can produce. And I'm not talking about destructive capability.
> 
> There's a reason why Kakashi doesn't use those fodder elemental jutsus and only relies on the same 2 attacks. It's because 90% of his movepool is garbage.
> 
> ...


1. Kakashi doesn't use most of his movepool because of his strategy based fighting style and his aptitude for lighting release. He has 1000 jutsu to use, i doubt all of them, as you claim, are complete fodder.
2. Hiruzen's jutsu are a lot stronger than we've seen Sakura use. He used all 5 basic nature transformations at the same time to block an attack from an opponent that terrified the everliving hell out of the rest of the allied shinobi forces, who were all amped up with Kyuubi chakra

Also, by saying Sakura is far superior to Hiruzen, you're stating Sakura is stronger than Orochimaru.


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## Seraph Prime (Nov 1, 2017)

She would be Kage level, but not that high in terms of actual combat prowess.


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## Beyonce (Nov 1, 2017)

Nuttynutdude said:


> 1. Kakashi doesn't use most of his movepool because of his strategy based fighting style and his aptitude for lighting release. He has 1000 jutsu to use, i doubt all of them, as you claim, are complete fodder.
> 2. Hiruzen's jutsu are a lot stronger than we've seen Sakura use. He used all 5 basic nature transformations at the same time to block an attack from an opponent that terrified the everliving hell out of the rest of the allied shinobi forces, who were all amped up with Kyuubi chakra
> 
> Also, by saying Sakura is far superior to Hiruzen, you're stating Sakura is stronger than Orochimaru.



1. If any one of them wasn't fodder, he would have used them more than once/at all. He hasn't, therefore we can make the conclusion that they are fodder. 

2. No, they are not. Hiruzen's 5 nature attack cannot break through Madara's Susanoo. Sakura's punches can. Plus, that was edo Hiruzen, and thus the feat cannot be replicated back to him being alive.

3. And yes, I am stating that Sakura is stronger than Orochimaru.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Nuttynutdude (Nov 2, 2017)

Beyonce said:


> 1. If any one of them wasn't fodder, he would have used them more than once/at all. He hasn't, therefore we can make the conclusion that they are fodder.
> 
> 2. No, they are not. Hiruzen's 5 nature attack cannot break through Madara's Susanoo. Sakura's punches can. Plus, that was edo Hiruzen, and thus the feat cannot be replicated back to him being alive.
> 
> 3. And yes, I am stating that Sakura is stronger than Orochimaru.


Then i'm done here. I'm not going to argue with someone who thinks Sakura is stronger than most of the Akatsuki. We're done here. If anyone wants to make a rational argument, i'll get the alert


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## genii96 (Nov 2, 2017)

Sakura beating oro?
Sakura breaking madara's  susanoo?


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## AdamWiz (Nov 2, 2017)

genii96 said:


> Sakura breaking madara's susanoo?


If Tsunade can, why can't Sakura?


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## Nuttynutdude (Nov 2, 2017)

genii96 said:


> Sakura beating oro?
> Sakura breaking madara's  susanoo?


What are you arguing?


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## genii96 (Nov 4, 2017)

AdamWiz said:


> If Tsunade can, why can't Sakura?



Tsunade never beat a normal oro alone, and sakura at the war arc is not at her level combat wise and even further down in medical ninjutsu . unless you're also on the bandwagon that believes sakura surpassed tsunade during the war


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## AdamWiz (Nov 4, 2017)

genii96 said:


> Tsunade never beat a normal oro alone, and sakura at the war arc is not at her level combat wise and even further down in medical ninjutsu . unless you're also on the bandwagon that believes sakura surpassed tsunade during the war


I’m talking about the fact that Sakura hits harder than Tsunade yet somehow she won’t be able to break Madara’s Susano’o.

And no, I don’t believe that she surpassed Tsunade during the war. She did surpass her as an Adult.


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## genii96 (Nov 13, 2017)

AdamWiz said:


> I’m talking about the fact that Sakura hits harder than Tsunade yet somehow she won’t be able to break Madara’s Susano’o.
> 
> And no, I don’t believe that she surpassed Tsunade during the war. She did surpass her as an Adult.




Hits harder how?
Based on what? Her super punches are based on  application of medical Ninjutsu and chakra control, Tsunade  is not behind in chakra control,and shits on her in medical Ninjutsu.... Plus her base strength already craps on sakura


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## AdamWiz (Nov 13, 2017)

genii96 said:


> Hits harder how?
> Based on what? Her super punches are based on  application of medical Ninjutsu and chakra control, Tsunade  is not behind in chakra control,and shits on her in medical Ninjutsu.... Plus her base strength already craps on sakura


I’ve already proved my point a few posts ago, read it.


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