# Did Kakashi favor Sasuke over Naruto?



## Sword Sage (Oct 29, 2012)

Back in part 1, Kakashi picked Sasuke as his favorite student because of his skills and him being just like him when he was young, as he said. But with Naruto despite him being the son of his late master and 4th Hokage, he somehow didn't seen anything in Naruto or someone being as skilled as Sasuke.

Kakashi was shocked that Naruto learned the Rasengan that happened to be his father jutsu and he wondered how was he able to preform it. Didn't call him "that brat" when he used Rasengan on Sasuke?

As we have learned from Kakashi is man who lived in a life of regret. I believed that Kakashi started to see Minato in Naruto after he learned FRS and before that he trained Naruto out of shame due of losing his favorite student Sasuke.

Kakashi thought training him would stop him from taking revenge, but in the end he was so naive. 

Kakashi has done the same results as Sarutobi did with Orochimaru.


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## Ernie (Oct 29, 2012)

No, Kakashi knew Jiraiya was training Naruto. Kakashi also said at the Pain Arc to Naruto that he knew Naruto would come so far and he is proud to be his sensei.


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## Sword Sage (Oct 29, 2012)

NarutoShippudenBelgium said:


> No, Kakashi knew Jiraiya was training Naruto. Kakashi also said at the Pain Arc to Naruto that he knew Naruto would come so far and he is proud to be his sensei.



That was after the Chuunin exams when Jiraiya told him to continue training Sasuke.

The Pain arc was after the FRS Training.

Kakashi hides his error ways and why Obito said to him that he lives a life of regret.


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## Freechoice (Oct 29, 2012)

Favouritism... Hmm...


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## CopyNinja93 (Oct 29, 2012)

Actually, Kakashi's conversation with Jiraiya was likely before the training for the 3rd exam at the latest. Jiraiya mentions how Orochimaru will return "one day" or something to that effect, which wouldn't make sense if it was after Kakashi had already seen Orochimaru again. 

Anyway, Sasuke was Kakashi's favourite, I always thought that seemed clear. It was noted that Sasuke was similar to young Kakashi and he did teach him Chidori, his own signature jutsu. Yet, I don't think he was blatant with it like Gai was with Lee. He only gave Sasuke extra training in preparation for the final exam, when Naruto was training with a Sannin and Sakura wasn't involved. 

As for the "that brat" stuff, I don't know if he said that but he did scold Sasuke later on for using a Chidori that big on Naruto, right before his speech about giving up on revenge. I don't think it's fair to say he trained Naruto "out of shame", he liked all three of his students but probably liked Sasuke a little more because he saw himself within him.


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## Sword Sage (Oct 29, 2012)

Then why did he have Ebisu training Naruto instead of Jiraiya?

It's likely the talk was after the churning exams. Just because when he said Orochimaru will return someday doesn't prove anything, Orochimaru retreated and he would o e day return.


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## Naruto Fighto (Oct 29, 2012)

I guess since Sasuke has the same element (lightning) as Kakashi and has the sharingan, also Sasuke is the last of Uchiha clan and Kakashi may feel he is in debt to Uchihas because of Obito.
So those may be the reasons why Kakashi wanted to focus on training Sasuke.

Also Kakashi usually avoids loudmouthed people like Obito, Gai, Naruto etc. They are his friends but being around them tires him. 

But it is strange that Kakashi didn't see Obito in Naruto, maybe his memory is fuzy, but Obito and Naruto are practically the same character. So instead of seeing Minato in Naruto, Kakashi should have saw Obito in Naruto by now.


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## Kai (Oct 29, 2012)

Not a stretch considering geniuses seem to be their sensei's initial favorites thematically (Oro>Jiraiya for Hiruzen, Nagato>Yahiko for Jiraiya, Hiruzen>Danzo for Tobirama, Kakashi>Obito probably for Minato as well).


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## CopyNinja93 (Oct 29, 2012)

Matrix XZ said:


> Then why did he have Ebisu training Naruto instead of Jiraiya?
> 
> It's likely the talk was after the churning exams. Just because when he said Orochimaru will return someday doesn't prove anything, Orochimaru retreated and he would o e day return.



Well, the whole quote is "I have been following Orochimaru's movements since he left the village, that person will return to the village someday." The way he's saying makes it seem like he hasn't been back since he first left. It's fine to interpret it anyway you want, just the general tone I get from the conversation is that it's from before the exams, especially the part about telling him to help Sasuke with Sharingan, which is part of what Kakashi did during their training. I'll admit that it is ambiguous though. 

As to why he went with Ebisu, that wasn't such a bad move. The point was to refine Naruto's chakra control, which he needed so he wasn't wasting his chakra. He probably just presumed that Jiraiya was going to pick him up at some point anyway and thought he may as well learn before that time.


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## Morgan (Oct 29, 2012)

The talk was before the Chunin exams, when he realized that Ebisu wasn't training Naruto and he got concerned about this.



Kai said:


> Not a stretch considering geniuses seem to be their sensei's initial favorites thematically (Oro>Jiraiya for Hiruzen, Nagato>Yahiko for Jiraiya, Hiruzen>Danzo for Tobirama, Kakashi>Obito probably for Minato as well).



Minato didn't play favourites 

EDIT: Just re-read those chapters and I don't see Kakashi anywhere in sight. Must have been anime only.


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## mayumi (Oct 29, 2012)

yes, kakashi did in part 1.


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## Jizznificent (Oct 29, 2012)

iirc didn't kakashi already admit that he didn't give naruto enough attention or something? or was it sakura, or both?


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## Arthas (Oct 29, 2012)

Your forgetting a couple of important factors.

- Kakashi just got rattled when he faced Kabuto in Sasuke's hospital room. Kakashi realised that his own level was not high enough. *Kakashi needed to train himself* for the battle he knew was coming. 

- Sasuke was the one facing Gaara. You remember the homocidal blood thirsty maniac? Naruto was the one facing Neji, an fate driven idiot (at the time) but still a leaf ninja. Who do you think was the one more likely to die during the chuunin match and who was the one who needed training to ensure that he'd survive that match? 

- Finally I always laugh at people who think Naruto would have learnt nothing from training with Ebisu. Naruto's main flaw at that time was chakra control and that is something that Ebisu was well qualified to correct. We have no idea as to what Ebisu would have tried to teach after Naruto mastered water walking.


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## Annabella (Oct 29, 2012)

^Agreed, it was probably because Sasuke's opponent was much more lethal at the time. I suppose he could better train Sasuke because of their common lightning element and the Sharingan.


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## crisler (Oct 29, 2012)

no. i don't think kakashi showed such expressions, and i think he deliberately tries to hide his emotions. naruto thought kakashi favored sasuke, but we know kakashi had a reason to do so.

the very prime reason is...kakashi knew about sasukes' goals. going after itachi. naruto? he's this happy guy who wants to become hokage, while sasuke tries to hunt down this s-class criminal. besides, sasuke had more potential, and kakashi HAD to put more concentration on sasuke rather than naruto. not to mention that sasuke and kakashi had common traits as a ninja.

afterwards, it gets even worse, as kakashi also has the sharingan which he can train sasuke with, and jiraiya takes care of naruto. 


so no, kakashi didn't show any favor towards sasuke over naruto. in fact if kakashi did show any favor to one of them it's probably naruto, as he saw his teacher in naruto..and also because sasuke 'fell' so far.

i think people get this confused because kakashi said 'i think i now know what hokage sama had to go through'...but that's probably the student-teacher business, not his favourite student thingy


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## ovanz (Oct 29, 2012)

Well, sasuke was the last uchiha and he was targeted by orochimaru, but naruto wasn't targeted by akatsuki yet (or kakashi didn't know about them) so sasuke was in more danger.


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## Revolution (Oct 29, 2012)

Shikamaru was helped with his revenge quest when one man died, but when Sasuke looses his entire familyNO ONE would help him, so I doubt Sasuke was ever his favorite student.  He only helped Sasuke use Chidori so he could defeat Gaara.


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## xXMUGIWARAXx (Oct 29, 2012)

ovanz said:


> Well, sasuke was the last uchiha and he was targeted by orochimaru, but naruto wasn't targeted by akatsuki yet (or kakashi didn't know about them) so sasuke was in more danger.



wow couldnt concentrate on topic because your sig was fantastic lol


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## Raiden (Oct 29, 2012)

He himself admitted an greater fondness of Sasuke earlier on int he series. And despite struggling to draw the character, Sasuke got panel time only second to Naruto. Whatever the case, it's clear now that he's dedicated towards building Naruto's profile. Sasuke hasn't appeared for quite some time, and Naruto is center stage.


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## Turrin (Oct 29, 2012)

Seems like he favors Naruto, since he believes only Naruto can surpass the Fourth.


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## Arthas (Oct 29, 2012)

Raiden said:


> He himself admitted an greater fondness of Sasuke earlier on int he series. And despite struggling to draw the character, Sasuke got panel time only second to Naruto. Whatever the case, it's clear now that he's dedicated towards building Naruto's profile. Sasuke hasn't appeared for quite some time, and Naruto is center stage.



This thread is about Kakashi favoring Sasuke or not. It is not about Kishi favoring Sasuke or not.


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## Hero of Shadows (Oct 29, 2012)

I AGREE that Kakashi was playing favorites with Sasuke because he reminded him of his younger self. (but then so did Gai -> Lee, Asuma -> Shika, and maybe Kurenai -> Hinata although Kishi never focused enough on T8 to confirm this).

I DISAGREE that Kakashi was a bad sensei to Naruto. (in fact you seem to be asking not for equality between the students but for the favoritism to be shifted to Naruto)

I AGREE that the Kakashi/Sasuke relationship mirrors the Sarutobi/Orochimaru one.


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## vegeta2002 (Oct 29, 2012)

Hiruzen liked Oro more than Jiraiya, until he realized Oro was a dick. Let Sasuke have Kakashi. Naruto has muthafuckin' Jiraiya.


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## NW (Oct 29, 2012)

It's odd how he didn't favor Naruto at first, seeing as how much he was like Obito.


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## Pirao (Oct 29, 2012)

Yes, I think it was pretty clear. It was for the best though, Naruto got the J-man.


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## Kyrie Eleison (Oct 29, 2012)

Yes, and no. 

It's not so much favoritism as it was that Sasuke stood the most to gain by being trained by Kakashi. 

Initially Kakashi spent some time working with both Naruto and Sasuke, but by the point of the Chuunin exams finals Naruto was primarily lacking in chakra control (an area Ebisu was well qualified to train him in) while Sasuke was in more desperate need of overall training both with his sharingan and in regards to increasing his abilities--areas in which Kakashi was uniquely suited to train him in.

Had events gone a little differently after the Chuunin exams Kakashi might have returned to training his team rather fairly but for the most part his students were out of his hands due to becoming the pupils of the Sannin. 

Sakura still got shafted though in regard to being trained by Kakashi; she was already ahead of his remedial lessons for Sasuke and Naruto but wasn't included in any individual training later on since she was eliminated from the Chuunin exams and then she became Tsunade's pupil.


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## izanagi x izanami (Oct 29, 2012)

kakashi=hiruzen 
sasuke=orochimaru



databook quote


> The 'blade' given to him by Kakashi to protect those special to him. A darkness imfusd Chidori lets out not light, but darkness, not chirping but a roar. Ironically, it is used to sever all ties with his companions as well as that with Naruto.
> 
> The Chidori become the wings that help Sasuke fly towards darkness.
> (Pic of stage two Sasuke with black Chidori)
> ...


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## Skywalker (Oct 29, 2012)

Perhaps back in the day, against his better judgement.


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## Trojan (Oct 30, 2012)

I used to dislike him because of that. Yes, his favorite was Sasuke. -_-"


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## ch1p (Oct 30, 2012)

Kakashi didn't favour Sasuke until the Chunin exams. There, you have these things to consider.

A) Sasuke got the Curse Seal and it was Kakashi who sealed him up. Perhaps he needed to be watched closely.
B) Sasuke and Kakashi have the same element, Naruto has not. Furthermore, Sasuke is Kakashi v2.0+anger, it's normal that he'd relate more. There's nothing wrong with that. 
C) Orochimaru stated blantantly Sasuke would come to seek him for power. There's some sense in making Sasuke have a preferential treatment, it's grounding him to the Leaf.
D) Naruto was fighting against someone from within the village. Sasuke was fighting someone from the outside. Sasuke's performance is much more important, politically.
E) Sasuke has the Sharingan. There is no one else to train him but Kakashi.
F) Plot. Naruto needed to meet Jiraiya, yet he couldn't if he was the one training Naruto.

But I agree Kakashi neglected his students in broad strokes. He did nothing for Sakura that we've known.


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## Medea (Oct 30, 2012)

I always got this vibe from Kakashi during Part 1 to be honest. He didn't ignore Naruto but he was more focused on Sasuke (for different reasons depending on what you think of his character now/at the time). But I think he's made up to it in Part II. I actually like how Naruto/Kakashi's relationship grew in Shippuden


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## Fiona (Oct 30, 2012)

Kakashi knew that only Jiraiya was the one that could completely protect Naruto while also giving him the best training. Also it stands to reason that Jiraiya claimed the right to tutor naruto due to him being his godson


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## Mistshadow (Oct 30, 2012)

jiraiays convo with kakashi took place at least before the big tournament of the chuunin exams.

this is evident because jiraiya told kakashi he had to train sasuke. and thus he trained sasuke with chidori and sharingan. jiraiya then promptly trained naruto after.


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## Silver Fang (Oct 30, 2012)

Ahhhh. Deja vu. Haven't been here in ages.

But, yes. Kakashi's favorite was Sasuke. He had more confidence in Sasuke's abilities than Naruto, and more trust.

Part II, he shows more faith in Naruto, but only because he was shamefully proven wrong about Sasuke once he left.


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## 3rdgenkage (Oct 31, 2012)

I don't think Kakashi was biased although at first glance it seems that way but it had to do with circumstance. I could explain but a lot of people already have Orochimaru was promising him power(so if Sasuke didn't get trained good by Kakashi he was going to Orochimaru's) Also Gaara was his next opponent which was at the time more of a problem than Orochimaru. Kakashi's old self had similarities to Sasuke but Kakashi changed over the years and he is more like Naruto now Sasuke even said it himself "They are both complete idiots" when Kakashi uses 1000 years of death jutsu. Naruto also fights like Kakashi they both use clones and strategies to trick their opponents while Sasuke is more direct style like Kakashi back in the day.


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## Daxter (Oct 31, 2012)

Yeah, it's been said that Kakashi simply favoured Sasuke at the time (specifically chuunin exam arc)  because he believed he knew how to deal with Sasuke most effectively. The common element, the personality problems, not to mention the impending battle with Gaara, someone who at the time was out for blood... Kakashi already sees himself as a failure and he wanted to do as much right as he could, so he attempted to apply what he's learned from his past on Sasuke, figuring he could do the most good from that angle.

Most teachers in Naruto had a blatant favourite, and while it could be argued Sasuke was at one point Kakashi's, at least we could say it was never to the extent that Gai favours Lee, or Asuma - Shikamaru, etc. Even then, this favouritism stems from the fact the teachers feel these select students need the most help/biggest push in the right direction.


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## the_symbol_of_rebirth (Oct 31, 2012)

Kakashi was to weak to protect Naruto from Akatsuki thats what Jiraiya said. So he had to pick Sasuke, he didnt have a choice.


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## Kid (Oct 31, 2012)

I think in some way he did.
Maybe cuz Kakashi saw himself in Sasuke and know he could help him better...

But that is part 1.


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## Klue (Oct 31, 2012)

Matrix XZ said:


> That was after the Chuunin exams when Jiraiya told him to continue training Sasuke.



Look at the state of the village in the flashback carefully. It happened sometime before the invasion, before the Chuunin Exams ended.


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## mayumi (Oct 31, 2012)

kakashi didn't believe naruto "that brat" could learn rasengan as quick as he did. he was quick to admonish jiraiya for teaching naruto that jutsu. quite honestly that scene irritated me.


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## kidloco (Oct 31, 2012)

kakashi never favor naruto, unless come part 2, taht how he tried to mend him wrongs wiht naurto, helping iwht the racengan and the win element and ect

he forgot who is anruto and only think of sasuke and obito promits but in the end... obito went crazy


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## KuroNoKitsune (Oct 31, 2012)

Sarahmint said:


> Shikamaru was helped with his revenge quest when one man died, but when Sasuke looses his entire familyNO ONE would help him, so I doubt Sasuke was ever his favorite student.  He only helped Sasuke use Chidori so he could defeat Gaara.



Well Shikamaru didn't abandon his friends to get revenge. Shikamaru wasn't SO much obsessed with revenge that he tried to kill his teammate/friend/rival.

As Kakashi said: Those who disobey the rules are scum, but those who abandon their friends/companions are even worse than scum.

Shikamaru may have disobeyed the rules (before Tsunade came) but he didn't abandon his team but rather formed a plan with his team.

Sasuke on the other hand disobeyed the rules and he abandoned his team.

I think that Kakashi meant to say: Friends > Revenge. (I mean, he did say that he saw Sasuke in his younger self.)

Besides we do know that Sakura would help him with his revenge.


*Spoiler*: __ 







Anyway on to the topic,
I did get a feeling that Kakashi favored Sasuke more than Naruto (and Sakura) as a student.

Kakashi training Sasuke because of the fact that they had the same affinity is understandable and stupid. 
I mean if teachers are going to favor students on the affinity that they have then it would've been better if they had put Naruto with Asume besides it was shown in part 2 that he had enough knowledge to help Naruto too.

Kakashi leaving Naruto behind for Sasuke was pretty unfair but also understandable. I mean, yeah, Sasuke did have to fight Gaara but Naruto had to fight Neji. You know, that Neji that was trying to kill Hinata, who was from the same village and clan. But then again, Gaara was on a whole different level.

Besides if Jiraiya wasn't there, Naruto would've had big problems with Ebisu since Ebisu didn't know about the seal that Orochimaru had put on Naruto. 


*Spoiler*: __


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## Sword Sage (Oct 31, 2012)

^

I agree on Ebisu it was a dumb idea to have him training Naruto. Even Kakashi training with Sasuke wasn't enough to defeat Gaara, if he had trained Naruto then things would be different. If it weren't for Jiraiyas training then Naruto would not only lose to Neji then Sasuke will lose to Gaara and Konoha would be destroyed.


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## Pirao (Oct 31, 2012)

One thing I remember that striked me as pretty funny, was in the Chunin exams, when Sasuke beats Yoroi using the move he copied from Lee and Kakashi was like "what a genius, he used the power of the sharingan to copy Lee's taijutsu blah blah blah", then Naruto does the same against Kiba and Kakashi was all "he just copied Sasuke", I mean can it get any more obvious?


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## Sword Sage (Oct 31, 2012)

Pirao said:


> One thing I remember that striked me as pretty funny, was in the Chunin exams, when Sasuke beats Yoroi using the move he copied from Lee and Kakashi was like "what a genius, he used the power of the sharingan to copy Lee's taijutsu blah blah blah", then Naruto does the same against Kiba and Kakashi was all "he just copied Sasuke", I mean can it get any more obvious?



Oh yeah I forgot about that one.

Sasuke copied lees moves and called him genius yet he didn't give Naruto much credit as Sasuke did when he copied it.


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## Addy (Oct 31, 2012)

well ofcourse he favored sasuke  at one point 

sasuke is an uchiha like obito. he is the last hope for his best friend's clan for one thing. however, i believe kakashi was much more objective than that. sasuke had the sharingan like kakashi so he could teach him a thing or two.

as for kakashi being naive..................  itachi and orochimaru fucked kakashi's vision for sasuke. he wasn't too naive. he was just too weak to defend sasuke from  people like itachi or orochimaru. if itachi did not fight sasuke in part 1, i believe sasuke would have rejected orochimaru's offering when fighting the sound 4. you can detect some jealousy after naruto fought gaara but itachi not giving a shit about sasuke was on a whole different level.


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## happiholic (Oct 31, 2012)

I honestly think that everyone in the series has. Except like, Hinata.


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## Arthas (Oct 31, 2012)

Matrix XZ said:


> ^
> 
> *I agree on Ebisu it was a dumb idea to have him training Naruto.* Even Kakashi training with Sasuke wasn't enough to defeat Gaara, if he had trained Naruto then things would be different. If it weren't for Jiraiyas training then Naruto would not only lose to Neji then Sasuke will lose to Gaara and Konoha would be destroyed.



Why was it dumb? Seriously no one has ever stated that without going into facts that Kakashi would not know about at the time. 

Also Sasuke did 'defeat' Gaara at least as far as the exams. Remember Gaara all but collapsed a little while after the Chidori. At that point it would have been Sasuke's victory (Exam/Match wise.)

Now what would happen after Gaara woke up would be another matter.

Also Kakashi trained Sasuke to handle everything he knew about Gaara. Strangely enough Kakashi did and could not know that Gaara was a Jinchuriki or that he could go into that half-beast form.

Finally bringing up the Konoha being destroyed bit is stupid because Kakashi would have no idea about the Sand about to attack or being Oro's partners for that matter.



Pirao said:


> One thing I remember that striked me as pretty funny, was in the Chunin exams, when Sasuke beats Yoroi using the move he copied from Lee and Kakashi was like "what a genius, he used the power of the sharingan to copy Lee's taijutsu blah blah blah", then Naruto does the same against Kiba and Kakashi was all "he just copied Sasuke", I mean can it get any more obvious?






Matrix XZ said:


> Oh yeah I forgot about that one.
> 
> Sasuke copied lees moves and called him genius yet he didn't give Naruto much credit as Sasuke did when he copied it.



Sasuke copied everything he saw of Kage Byou including the release of  the first gate and then came up with a very original combo.   

Naruto's move did not include the gates, did not include the of Renge (High speed Taijutsu that Gai praised Sasuke for), used multiple-clones to do the work of one person and had little originality.



KuroNoKitsune said:


> Well Shikamaru didn't abandon his friends to get revenge. Shikamaru wasn't SO much obsessed with revenge that he tried to kill his teammate/friend/rival.
> 
> As Kakashi said: Those who disobey the rules are scum, but those who abandon their friends/companions are even worse than scum.
> 
> ...



- Shikamaru was older at the time of his loss.
- Shikamaru had people who shared his loss. (Seriously don't underestimate survivor's guilt.)
- Shikamaru had people who were completely willing to support his revenge from the get-go along with others coming later.
- Sasuke meanwhile had none of those things and was basically told by Kakashi to give up on his reason for living. 
- Lol Sakura helping him...



> Anyway on to the topic,
> I did get a feeling that Kakashi favored Sasuke more than Naruto (and Sakura) as a student.
> 
> Kakashi training Sasuke because of the fact that they had the same affinity is understandable and stupid.
> I mean if teachers are going to favor students on the affinity that they have then it would've been better if they had put Naruto with Asume besides it was shown in part 2 that he had enough knowledge to help Naruto too.



Kakashi trained Sasuke at that time because Gaara and Orochimaru were a threat and Sasuke could pick up on what he had to teach fastest. (Remember they only had a month/Two Weeks to train.) Elemental training normally takes months remember. Kakashi hadn't thought of the KB training method at that time and would not have beleived Naruto could learn elements in days (in Part One.)

Also Kakashi would not have taught Naruto anything to do with the Kyuubi. So that by itself limits what Kakashi could teach him during that month that would make a difference in the Chunnin exams. Remember Naruto needed the Kyuubi to beat Neji. 

Finally bear this in mind, another reason most don't consider is that Kakashi needed to train himself first. Remember this was the Kakashi who just got his cage rattled by Kabuto. He was busy training himself not training Sasuke. 



> Kakashi leaving Naruto behind for Sasuke was pretty unfair but also understandable. I mean, yeah, Sasuke did have to fight Gaara but Naruto had to fight Neji. You know, that Neji that was trying to kill Hinata, who was from the same village and clan. But then again, Gaara was on a whole different level.



Gaara was far more blood thirsty.

Neji would not have been fighting to kill and even when he was motivated enough to attempt to kill Naruto he called out a warning to the examiner first.

Somehow I doubt Naruto's life being in real danger.



> Besides if Jiraiya wasn't there, Naruto would've had big problems with Ebisu since Ebisu didn't know about the seal that Orochimaru had put on Naruto.



Kakashi didn't know about that seal either and likely would not have been able to do anything about it either. This I blame Naruto for, he should have told Kakashi/Sandaime/Iruka about the this strange marks that the snake-wierdo put on the Seal on my belly.



> *Spoiler*: __



Ironically it appears Kakashi was more right about Naruto there. Naruto was the one who resorted to the Rasengan first remember. Yet somehow he was never given a talking to about using Rasengan to protect his friends...


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## Silver Fang (Oct 31, 2012)

Arthas said:


> W
> Ironically it appears Kakashi was more right about Naruto there. Naruto was the one who resorted to the Rasengan first remember. Yet somehow he was never given a talking to about using Rasengan to protect his friends...



Well Naruto knew he abused the gift Jiraiya gave him. All it took was the stern look to get things accross to Naruto that he screwed up. Sasuke was the spoiled, arrogant, psycho that needed a lecture.

Jiraiya already understood Naruto better than Kakashi ever would, or did. So, really Kakashi had no place to say anything there.

Naruto learning Rasegan. Jiraiya knew it was a good jutsu for Naruto to have and get started on. 

Now, i'm sure Jiraiya didn't expect him to master it so soon, but he was getting on top of things. The sooner he introduced it to Naruto, the sooner he'll master it. 

But Kakashi didn't want Jiraiya to teach him that. That makes him a hypocrite. 

He'll teach Chidori to a revenge-obsessed, arrogant, nutt-job, but he doesn't want Naruto learning any strong jutsu? 

What excuse could he have had for that. What could he have expected Naruto to learn from Jiraiya? Naruto had mastered his basics at that time, jutsu was next.

Sasuke's life was in danger, so Kakashi taught him. 

Ok. Well, we find Naruto's lif is in just as much, if not more, danger.

So, apparently for Kakashi

Trouble Sasuke = jutsu
Trouble Naruto =......? WHat does Naruto get?

So, that scene where Kakashi tries to lecture Jiraiya was the icing on the cake for me that Kakashi, favored, and had more faith in Sasuke, and didn't take Naruto seriously, and didn't try to either.

Not to say Naruto is perfect. He's impulsive, kinda arrogent, and wild. But, Sasuke was not without some big flaws as well, but Kakashi still took gambles on him despite those flaws. With Naruto, not so much. But that's what Jiraiya's for.


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## Arthas (Oct 31, 2012)

Silver Fang said:


> Well Naruto knew he abused the gift Jiraiya gave him. All it took was the stern look to get things accross to Naruto that he screwed up. Sasuke was the* spoiled, arrogant, psycho* that needed a lecture.



First off nice to see you reduced to shameless name calling really helps your argument...not.

Second I am unsure if your referring to a particular panel or scene in your post but this is the Naruto panel I found as close to the Water Tank scene that I could find and it doesn't look like he thinks he screwed up. (If you were referring to a different panel then please post.)



> Jiraiya already understood Naruto better than Kakashi ever would, or did. So, really Kakashi had no place to say anything there.
> 
> Naruto learning Rasegan. Jiraiya knew it was a good jutsu for Naruto to have and get started on.
> 
> ...



Again with the name-calling and bashing of characters... 

Kakashi felt Naruto wasn't ready, that makes him a hypocrite? Especially when he hasn't had an oppertunity to really gauge Naruto's growth? (Remember post-Suna Invasion Kakashi was busy on missions + spent time knocked out due to Itachi.) Keep in mind that Kakashi's thoughts are somewhat borne out by Naruto resorting to Rasengan first.

Next your confusing Sasuke pre-Itachi Meeting and Post-Itachi Meeting. That was something Kakashi could never have predicted, i.e Tsukuyomi and Itachi's words of "Hatred"... 

Remember Kakashi even commented on it during his speech to Sasuke after the Water Tank: "Chidori was given because you found things important to you." Referring to Pre-Itachi Sasuke. Kakashi's next words refer to Post-Itachi Sasuke "That power is not something to be used against your freinds or for revenge."



> What excuse could he have had for that. What could he have expected Naruto to learn from Jiraiya? Naruto had mastered his basics at that time, jutsu was next.



Stangely enough once most people master the bunny slopes (basics) they don't decide to ski down Suicide Hill (Professional/Master level). There are a whole range of jutsu between D and A rank you know.



> Sasuke's life was in danger, so Kakashi taught him.
> 
> Ok. Well, we find Naruto's lif is in just as much, if not more, danger.
> 
> ...



Toad Bosses the size of hills/mountains? Please don't claim that Naruto had no big jutsu to fall back on.

What Kakashi might have trained Naruto in, well since we are speculating as Jiraiya was in charge of Naruto at that time: Elemental jutsu could have been the next step, Naruto might have gotten his wind element a lot earlier if Kakashi had still beein in charge of him,  refining Naruto's Taijutsu another...

One thing I will state though, I doubt anything Kakashi would teach would have involved the Kyuubi. Kakashi seemed to avoid it while Jiraiya embraced it's use. 

Personally (and this I admit is only a theory on my part) Kakashi didn't  understand the danger of Akatsuki and Jiraiya (who had been observing  them) did. He wasn't knowledgable about the immediate risks that Naruto  would likely face while Jiraiya was.   



> So, that scene where Kakashi tries to lecture Jiraiya was the icing on the cake for me that Kakashi, favored, and had more faith in Sasuke, and didn't take Naruto seriously, and didn't try to either.



You mean to say Kakashi didn't have faith in the Naruto who had just decided to resort to the Rasengan first...Gee I wonder why he might have had doubts...  

Oh and before you say I am playing favorites I doubt Kakashi would have taught Chidori to the Sasuke who woke up from his second Tsukuyomi either.



> Not to say Naruto is perfect. He's impulsive, kinda arrogent, and wild. But, Sasuke was not without some big flaws as well, but Kakashi still took gambles on him despite those flaws. With Naruto, not so much. But that's what Jiraiya's for.



Main gamble was before Sasuke's second traumatic experience at Itachi's hands. Before that I would have placed Sasuke as a safe bet too and secondly Jiraiya took charge of Naruto's training way before. Why should Kakashi unduly interfere with it


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## Arthas (Oct 31, 2012)

I apologise for this double post but I remembered my very first post on this forum on a similar thread and thought it appropriate that I repost it. Please forgive it for being a bit outdated. 



Arthas said:


> Ok, was just reading this and I really felt the  need to join up and post, Kakashi might not be  my favorite charactar  but I cant stand to see him take the fall for this.
> 
> Note: In this post there will be a difference between TRAINING and  TEACHING. Training will be just practicing and refining what the student  already knows and Teaching will be actually teaching a new jutsu. I  will also be dividing my defence of his training methods in parts:
> 
> ...


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## KuroNoKitsune (Oct 31, 2012)

Addy said:


> well ofcourse he favored sasuke  at one point
> 
> sasuke is an uchiha like obito. he is the last hope for his best friend's clan for one thing. however, i believe kakashi was much more objective than that. sasuke had the sharingan like kakashi so he could teach him a thing or two.


Naruto is the son of the Yondaime Hokage, Namikaze Minato, his teacher.

How are Kakashi and Obito best friends? Obito died the same day that they became "friends".

Anyway it's pretty strange, you know. People can't see that Naruto and Sasuke were "best friends" but when it comes to Kakashi and Obito they can.



> as for kakashi being naive..................  itachi and orochimaru fucked kakashi's vision for sasuke. he wasn't too naive. he was just too weak to defend sasuke from  people like itachi or orochimaru. if itachi did not fight sasuke in part 1, i believe sasuke would have rejected orochimaru's offering when fighting the sound 4. you can detect some jealousy after naruto fought gaara but itachi not giving a shit about sasuke was on a whole different level.



I agree.



Arthas said:


> Sasuke copied everything he saw of Kage Byou including the release of  the first gate and then came up with a very original combo.
> 
> Naruto's move did not include the gates, did not include the of Renge (High speed Taijutsu that Gai praised Sasuke for), used multiple-clones to do the work of one person and had little originality.



Sasuke came up with a very original combo 
Just like how Kakashi came up with very original Jutsus from seeing other Shinobis, right 





> - Shikamaru was older at the time of his loss.
> - Shikamaru had people who shared his loss. (Seriously don't underestimate survivor's guilt.)
> - Shikamaru had people who were completely willing to support his revenge from the get-go along with others coming later.
> - Sasuke meanwhile had none of those things and was basically told by Kakashi to give up on his reason for living.
> - Lol Sakura helping him...



- True
- What about Kakashi?
- Sasuke had nothing? You mean like friends? (Naruto and Sakura) Someone who understands him? (Kakashi)
- Lol at you thinking that I was serious...



> Kakashi trained Sasuke at that time because Gaara and Orochimaru were a threat and Sasuke could pick up on what he had to teach fastest. (Remember they only had a month/Two Weeks to train.) Elemental training normally takes months remember. Kakashi hadn't thought of the KB training method at that time and would not have beleived Naruto could learn elements in days (in Part One.)
> 
> Also Kakashi would not have taught Naruto anything to do with the Kyuubi. So that by itself limits what Kakashi could teach him during that month that would make a difference in the Chunnin exams. Remember Naruto needed the Kyuubi to beat Neji.
> 
> Finally bear this in mind, another reason most don't consider is that Kakashi needed to train himself first. Remember this was the Kakashi who just got his cage rattled by Kabuto. He was busy training himself not training Sasuke.



So right now you're saying that Kakashi was the worst kind of teacher for Naruto because he couldn't teach him anything. I agree
Besides now he wasn't training Sasuke but himself? Lol
Anyway, Kakashi was the one who thought that they were ready for the Chunin Exams. As a teacher he should have prepared them.  



> Gaara was far more blood thirsty.
> 
> Neji would not have been fighting to kill and even when he was motivated enough to attempt to kill Naruto he called out a warning to the examiner first.
> 
> Somehow I doubt Naruto's life being in real danger.



Didn't I say that Gaara was on a whole different level?

Besides someone as great as Kakashi (or one of the other Jounins) could've stopped the fight, right. I mean Gaara wasn't a speedster and besides if Genins could've defeated him that so could Jounins, right?




> Kakashi didn't know about that seal either and likely would not have been able to do anything about it either. This I blame Naruto for, he should have told Kakashi/Sandaime/Iruka about the this strange marks that the snake-wierdo put on the Seal on my belly.



And he acted like he really knew, right? I mean, it wasn't like Jiraiya had solved the problem? Kakashi would've probably noticed it, unlike Ebisu.  



> Ironically it appears Kakashi was more right about Naruto there. Naruto was the one who resorted to the Rasengan first remember. Yet somehow he was never given a talking to about using Rasengan to protect his friends...



Suuuurre, ignore the fact that Sasuke was the first one that was trying to burn Naruto alive


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## Pirao (Oct 31, 2012)

Arthas said:


> Sasuke copied everything he saw of Kage Byou including the release of  the first gate and then came up with a very original combo.
> 
> Naruto's move did not include the gates, did not include the of Renge (High speed Taijutsu that Gai praised Sasuke for), used multiple-clones to do the work of one person and had little originality.



Oh, didn't know Kakashi posted here 

Sasuke can now open gates, ok


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## poona (Oct 31, 2012)

As far as I know, none of the genin team's leaders have an obligation to teach the students ninjutsu. In fact, I'd say that their title of 'sensei' is only out of respect for their senior. Kakashi's role in Team 7 was not to teach them jutsus, but to be their leader, and teach them how to work cohesively as a unit. Teaching Sasuke and Naruto how to walk up the tree was due to their lack of control over such a basic and essential ability (too much time spent practicing destructive jutsus).

Kakashi was best suited to teach Sasuke ninjutsu, being the only other person in Konoha with a Sharingan, teaching him Chidori in particular because that jutsu works best with the Sharingan. I could talk about the chakra elements, but that concept wasn't introduced until Part 2, and I'm not sure if Kishi had written that concept yet.


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## Arthas (Oct 31, 2012)

Pirao said:


> Oh, didn't know Kakashi posted here
> 
> Sasuke can now open gates, ok



Kage Byou, the first part of the Omote Renge involves the release of the First gate. Sasuke (Or Kakashi for that matter) has not been shown to release any other gates as of yet though.



KuroNoKitsune said:


> Sasuke came up with a very original combo
> Just like how Kakashi came up with very original Jutsus from seeing other Shinobis, right



...You do know that I am refering to the Lion combo right? Which was straight original and whoose creativity was praised by Gai?



> - True
> - What about Kakashi?
> - Sasuke had nothing? You mean like friends? (Naruto and Sakura) Someone who understands him? (Kakashi)
> - Lol at you thinking that I was serious...



- Kakashi wasn't there for about 5 years (Time between Uchiha Massacre and Team 7) and he didn't share Uchiha Sasuke's loss, he had his own. To put simply he revealed his loss too late for it to matter and by making part of a moralising lecture made it's value decrease.
- I said "none of those things" not "Nothing." Sasuke didn't have friends or comrades who shared his loss, (Kakashi as I said was too late) he didn't have people supporting his revenge from the get-go (If you really think Sakura was supporting Sasuke's revenge instead of just wanting to be with him...).



> So right now you're saying that Kakashi was the worst kind of teacher for Naruto because he couldn't teach him anything. I agree
> Besides now he wasn't training Sasuke but himself? Lol
> Anyway, Kakashi was the one who thought that they were ready for the Chunin Exams. As a teacher he should have prepared them.



No, I said that Kakashi was not going to teach Naruto about the Kyuubi and was unable to teach moves that would immediately power up Naruto in time for the exams that could compete with a Kyuubi power up.  

I gave a number of examples in my post as to what Kakashi might have taught Naruto later though. Also everyone knows that at that point Naruto's basics were faulty. Chakra control was the first step of what would make Naruto a better ninja. Unless Kakashi and Ebisu expected Naruto to take a whole month on that area (which considering Kakashi probably didn't as he  knew how little time Naruto spent on Tree climbing) then they would have had other areas to cover later.

As far as Kakashi training himself, you've either forgotten or haven't read the manga: Page Showing Kakashi thinking his current level isn't enough. and Here is a page Kakashi training. 

Finally there is a difference between being ready for the Chunnin exams and winning the exams. Team 7 technically made it past the first two exams beating how many other teams? They were ready.

As far as preparing them further a few small things like the threat of Orochimaru and blood-lusted Gaara shorted out most of Kakashi's plans.



> Didn't I say that Gaara was on a whole different level?
> 
> Besides someone as great as Kakashi (or one of the other Jounins)  could've stopped the fight, right. I mean Gaara wasn't a speedster and  besides if Genins could've defeated him that so could Jounins, right?



Strangely enough there is a bit bigger distance in the 3rd Exam Arena then in the Pre-lims. Also stopping Gaara would depend on the situation. The Examiner for example, I doubt could have stopped him considering how slow he was to react when Lee was about to die.




> And he acted like he really knew, right? I mean, it wasn't like Jiraiya  had solved the problem? Kakashi would've probably noticed it, unlike  Ebisu.



Ebisu wasn't given that much of a chance to notice it and Kakashi would not have been able to do anything even if he did.



> Suuuurre, ignore the fact that Sasuke was the first one that was trying to burn Naruto alive


First of all you expected a Katon to do damage? Second in any case the Katon didn't damage the main Naruto and unless Rasegan suddenly became a Flame repelling sphere then it means that Naruto was practically unharmed by the Katon anyway...


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## Pirao (Oct 31, 2012)

Arthas said:


> Kage Byou, the first part of the Omote Renge involves the release of the First gate. Sasuke (Or Kakashi for that matter) has not been shown to release any other gates as of yet though.




They haven't been shown to release any of the gates.


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## Jiraiya4Life (Oct 31, 2012)

I think the only reason Kakashi trained Sasuke so singularly was because they were the only two people in Konoha who had the sharingan.


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## Wax Knight (Oct 31, 2012)

It was Jirayia who actually wanted him to keep an eye on Sasuke since Kakashi and Sasuke had a lot in common (lightining chakra, sharingan, 'personality') and told Kakashi to leave Naruto to him.


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## Sword Sage (Nov 1, 2012)

It seemed to me that Kakashi only likes training Sasuke because he is the winner and Naruto is the loser. Remember how Obito wanted the world genjutsu to be all winners, and no more losers.

I believe that maybe why Obito wanted Sasuke because he wanted to make Kakashi suffer by making him lose his favorite student.


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## Addy (Nov 1, 2012)

Arthas said:


> Why was it dumb? Seriously no one has ever stated that without going into facts that Kakashi would not know about at the time.
> 
> Also Sasuke did 'defeat' Gaara at least as far as the exams. Remember Gaara all but collapsed a little while after the Chidori. At that point it would have been Sasuke's victory (Exam/Match wise.)
> 
> ...


was sasuke just called "sasuke-sama"?


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## Lelouch71 (Nov 1, 2012)

It doesn't matter who he favors back in part 1 because it's clear Naruto is now his favorite student.


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## Whirlpool (Nov 1, 2012)

Teachers suck.

Hiruzen trained Orochimaru.
Jiraiya trained Nagato.
Minato trained Obito.
Kakashi trained Sasuke.

I bet Naruto get's a student called Adolf soon enough.


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## Pirao (Nov 2, 2012)

Lelouch71 said:


> It doesn't matter who he favors back in part 1 because it's clear Naruto is now his favorite student.



No shit, Sasuke turned into a crazy homicidal maniac.


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