# 13 Year Old Itachi vs. Jiraiya



## Ersa (Jun 15, 2015)

*Location*: Open Plain
*Distance*: 10m
*Mindset*: IC, intent to kill.
*Knowledge*: None
*Restrictions*: Koto, Izanami

*Sannin are equal in combat power.*

*Spoiler*: __ 





Turrin said:


> ^
> 
> Found the page and your right it does say that Tsunade is a match for Jiraiya and Orochimaru.






*Viz Media - Orochimaru is weaker then Itachi.*

*Spoiler*: __ 





> *Orochimaru*: That all would not have been necessary if we had been able to rope in Uchiha Itachi from the beginning... But that dream has died...He is stronger than I.


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## Mercurial (Jun 15, 2015)

Itachi can one panel Jiraiya (with Sharingan genjutsu/Totsuka/Amaterasu/far better speed + precognition + clone feints + kunai through the head) as he can one panel Tsunade, as he canonically one paneled Orochimaru (who admitted total inferiority to him). That's nothing new here.


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## Alex Payne (Jun 15, 2015)

Genjutsu, gg


Always found it hilarious, btw. Sannin equality is quite often used to cross-support each of them. Yet when it comes to anything Itachi-related...


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## Legendary Itachi (Jun 15, 2015)

Animal Path > Base Jiraiya > Itachi + Kisame + Akatsuki >>>>>>> SM Jiraiya
Oro > Base Jiraiya
13 Years old Itachi > Oro

I wonder who wins.


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## Trojan (Jun 15, 2015)

Jiraiya shits in his mouth.

Even with 1 Jutsu it forced 21 years old itachi to run like a rat.

this vague statement

> Here, Jiraiya flexes his chakra
> itschi gets a heart-attack and die.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 15, 2015)

This has been done to death. Itachi no difs.
Replace Orochimaru with Jiraiya. Fight ends before it even begins. Well, practically you wouldn't call that a fight


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## Ghost (Jun 15, 2015)

MS Itachi handily beats base Jiraiya.


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## Duhul10 (Jun 15, 2015)

Lel, so much wank
Jiraiya no diffs 
A Fart should do it ))))
Older Itachi admitted inferiority to Jiraiya so he rapes kid Itachi
He had the courage to casually Look into Itachi's eyes even though he knew he was a strong sharingan user and he made Both Itachi and Kisame run for their money and we can see Both Kisame's and Itachi's pee flowing through their Panties XD.
Now seriously talking, Jiraiya won't even accept a fight with a Little brat, he is too much of a badass ( Cappo di tutti Cappi )


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Jun 15, 2015)

Duhul10 said:


> Lel, so much wank
> Jiraiya no diffs
> A Fart should do it ))))
> *Older Itachi admitted inferiority to Jiraiya *so he rapes kid Itachi



^

Baffles me to this day why people think Itachi can beat Jiraiya and some times even SM Jiraiya with no difficulty or 100% win rate every time.


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## Duhul10 (Jun 15, 2015)

Transcendent Shinobi said:


> ^
> 
> Baffles me to this day why people think Itachi can beat Jiraiya and some times even SM Jiraiya with no diffuctuly or 100% win rate every time.



They ( Itachi fans ) are fighting with everyone who were telling this to them for many years, so they cannot admit it anymore, because everyone would laugh at them, so they continue holding on the idea that :  Itachi> Oro, so Itachi > Jiraiya, because they are sannins and they respond the same to an enemy attack

Oh and Yomi Numa solo's


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## Alex Payne (Jun 15, 2015)

Itachi also said that only Uchiha can beat him. Which one of those statements is true?


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## Duhul10 (Jun 15, 2015)

Alex Payne said:


> Itachi also said that only Uchiha can beat him. Which one of those statements is true?



Hashirama, Minato, Naruto, Nagato, Kakashi ( DMS mostly ), Kabuto, Bee ~ These are not Uchiha, yet through feats, portrayal and hype are certainly above Itachi.
So that statement is clearly false, while the other one Most probably is not, because he simply admitted inferiority after running Away from Jiraiya. Which one might say that it was only because he was a good guy. ok,  but then why did he let Kisame attack Jiraiya ? Why did he put Kakashi into bed ? Why did he beat with cruelty His brother?


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## Alex Payne (Jun 15, 2015)

So now we place feats above statements. When it suits our agenda. You guys never change.


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## Duhul10 (Jun 15, 2015)

Alex Payne said:


> So now we place feats above statements. When it suits our agenda. You guys never change.



I Said feats, portrayal and hype 
So now you are going to Argue that Itachi beats Hashirama, DMS Kakashi and The others ? Yeah, good luck with that !
You are Those who never change !


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## Alex Payne (Jun 15, 2015)

I am simply giving you two statements. You ignore one because "feats" and support other without looking at "feats"(and everything else). You either use feats/other info for both or accept both of them. It is supposed to work like that.


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## ThunderCunt (Jun 15, 2015)

Another Itachi vs J-Man thread. 
If J-Man was alive and he also participated in power Inflation game, he would have been stronger than Itachi. Itachi was killed by Sauce, who was nowhere as strong at that time. Itachi's top moments are defeating Kabuto and Nagato in ET form, which gave him free pass over his ninja aids.


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## Mercurial (Jun 15, 2015)

Duhul10 said:


> Hashirama, Minato, Naruto, Nagato, Kakashi ( DMS mostly ), Kabuto, Bee ~ These are not Uchiha, yet through feats, portrayal and hype are certainly above Itachi.
> So that statement is clearly false, while the other one Most probably is not, because he simply admitted inferiority after running Away from Jiraiya. Which one might say that it was only because he was a good guy. ok,  but then why did he let Kisame attack Jiraiya ? Why did he put Kakashi into bed ? Why did he beat with cruelty His brother?



Kakashi doesn't need DMS + Rikudo chakra power up to surpass Itachi. War Arc Kakashi easily surpassed him, he has better feats in everything bar genjutsu and a far deadly and haxxed Mangekyo. 

Killer Bee is not defeating Itachi. Itachi already canonically fended him off and put him in a genjutsu. Had he used Tsukuyomi, Bee would have been dead. Hachibi has hella firepower but Itachi can kill him quickly with Amaterasu (very useful here) or use Totsuka and seal the giant target.

You forgot Gai. Gai stomps Itachi with 7th Gate.


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## ThunderCunt (Jun 15, 2015)

Gai is easily one of the toughest opponent for anyone with eye power and using genjutsu.


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## Duhul10 (Jun 15, 2015)

ThunderCunt said:


> Another Itachi vs J-Man thread.
> If J-Man was alive and he also participated in power Inflation game, he would have been stronger than Itachi. Itachi was killed by Sauce, who was nowhere as strong at that time. Itachi's top moments are defeating Kabuto and Nagato in ET form, which gave him free pass over his ninja aids.



Well, we are talking about The Alive version of Itachi, not His Edo feats


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 15, 2015)

ThunderCunt said:


> Another Itachi vs J-Man thread.
> If J-Man was alive and he also participated in power Inflation game, he would have been stronger than Itachi. Itachi was killed by Sauce, who was nowhere as strong at that time. Itachi's top moments are defeating Kabuto and Nagato in ET form, which gave him free pass over his ninja aids.


Inflation game ?

Itachi has better feats as an EDO only because he isn't fatally ill and he isn't holding back this time around. Hebi Sasuke fight Itachi was massively nerfed. 

Jiraiya on the other hand went all out against Pain and had nothing else left to offer.

So If Jiraiya was brought back, he'd be used as a stepping stone to hype someone else(worst case scenario a chuunin or a jounin), just like some others who didn't have much else to offer, hanzo, deidara/sasori/Kakuzu, Asuma, Hiruzen etc.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 15, 2015)

Do you ever go a day without making a new Itachi vs thread, Ersatz?


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## Ersa (Jun 15, 2015)

I think of ways to rustle jimmies while I take breaks from exam study.


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## Duhul10 (Jun 15, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Inflation game ?
> 
> Itachi has better feats as an EDO only because he isn't fatally ill and he isn't holding back this time around. Hebi Sasuke fight Itachi was massively nerfed.
> 
> ...



Maybe, but Those are Edo feats, which he did not show while he was Alive, so we cannot give Those feats to His Alive version
Jiraiya did not show everything because of Petra Path ( The reason he stopped using Ninjutsu ) and The shared vision ( The reason he stopped using taijutsu ).
Yet, after His death, Jiraiya gained some new feats, ALIVE feats ( kawazu naki, dust Cloud and frog katas) which are actually very useful against opponents like Itachi


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 15, 2015)

Duhul10 said:


> Maybe, but Those are Edo feats, which he did not show while he was Alive, so we cannot give Those feats to His Alive version



Yes we can.


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 15, 2015)

No knowledge implies that Jiraiya gets mindraped by genjutsu.


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## RBL (Jun 15, 2015)

Itachi should win more times than not.

even if it's 13 years old itachi, it's a healthy 13 years old itachi

i think itachi wins with mid-higg diff


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jun 15, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> *Location*: Open Plain
> *Distance*: 10m
> *Mindset*: IC, intent to kill.
> *Knowledge*: None
> ...



A fight between Orochimaru and Itachi would be very different if Orochimaru didn't underestimate Itachi. Granted Itachi would win, but it doesn't mean Orochimaru loses to just Genjutsu.

(Obviously you missed the rest of Turrin's post which explains the problems.)

The Sannin have somewhat equal capabilities relative to one-another, but that has no bearing with Itachi. Pain even said there's a difference with each Sannin's abilities - they are unique. 
Orochimaru's don't make him a match for Itachi, yet Jiraiya's makes him equal to Itachi. This is Itachi not knowing about Jiraiya having Sage Mode.

This was about an 18 year old Itachi. 13 year old Itachi probably would be destroyed by Jiraiya. Unless you want to come out and tell me that Itachi never developed since he was 13, this is a safe assumption to make.


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## Six (Jun 15, 2015)

Itachi wins. He capped in power at age 8


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## Bloo (Jun 15, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Jiraiya shits in his mouth.
> 
> Even with 1 Jutsu it forced *21* years old itachi to run like a rat.
> 
> ...


Itachi was _18_ there. But it's an accurate reflection of how people should take you seriously when Itachi's a conversation piece.

Itachi wins due to the no knowledge stipulation, and Itachi is one of the worst opponents to fight with no knowledge and poor genjutsu resistance.


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## StickaStick (Jun 15, 2015)

Jiraiya pats him on the head and then knees him in the face.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 15, 2015)

StickaStick said:


> Jiraiya pats him on the head and then knees him in the face.



Then gets killed by an exploding bunshin, or gets his head cut off realizing too late that he got genjutsu GG'd.


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## StickaStick (Jun 15, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Then gets killed by an exploding bunshin, or gets his head cut off realizing too late that he got genjutsu GG'd.


Maybe 

I could actually see Jiraiya being genjutsu gg'd here since he probably won't be taking Kid-Itachi seriously and lacks knowledge.

Btw, why is Koto restricted?


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## Bloo (Jun 15, 2015)

StickaStick said:


> Maybe
> 
> I could actually see Jiraiya being genjutsu gg'd here since he probably won't be taking Kid-Itachi seriously and lacks knowledge.
> 
> *Btw, why is Koto restricted?*


Probably to avoid this annoying response, "Koto GG." Koto is an annoying move since Itachi never uses it anyway due to its stipulations, so may as well keep it off limits.


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## StickaStick (Jun 15, 2015)

No, I mean 13-yr old Itachi didn't have Shisui's eye at that point (or did he?) so he wouldn't be expected (able) to use it here anyway.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jun 15, 2015)

StickaStick said:


> Btw, why is Koto restricted?



There is a bizarre notion among a subset of regulars who think Itachi would use Koto on just about anyone in a BD context.


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## Bloo (Jun 15, 2015)

StickaStick said:


> No, I mean 13-yr old Itachi didn't have Shisui's eye at that point (or did he?) so he wouldn't be expected (able) to use it here anyway.


He could have. The issue is we don't know how old Itachi was during the massacre (which at that point, he would have had Shisui's eye). Since the massacre took place after Itachi was promoted to ANBU captain at age 13, he could have had the eye. It's hard to guess Itachi's timeline precisely because Kishimoto completely shat on it with the Akatsuki timeline.


*Spoiler*: _Akatsuki Timeline Inconsistency_ 




Itachi was 21 in Part II. 
It was declared Orochimaru left Akatsuki ten years before Part II ( which would have made Itachi _11_ when Orochimaru left). 
Which was after Itachi joined after he annihilated the clan, in which case he should be at least _13_ years old.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 15, 2015)

StickaStick said:


> No, I mean 13-yr old Itachi didn't have Shisui's eye at that point (or did he?) so he wouldn't be expected (able) to use it here anyway.



He should have it. Shisui died prior to the massacre.


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## Trojan (Jun 15, 2015)

I don't know why this thread is still not closed, but I'll say this again
itachi was 15 or 16 when the encounter with Oro happened, not 13.  

The Databook placed their encounter to be 7 years ago from the War Arc, and
yes, it's yet another retecon.


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## StickaStick (Jun 15, 2015)

Ah, I see. So it's a bit up in the air. Might as well restrict jic I guess.


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## Trojan (Jun 15, 2015)

Bloo said:


> Itachi was _18_ there. But it's an accurate reflection of how people should take you seriously when Itachi's a conversation piece.
> 
> Itachi wins due to the no knowledge stipulation, and Itachi is one of the worst opponents to fight with no knowledge and poor genjutsu resistance.



So, 18 years itachi ran as a rat, but 13 years old itachi is somehow better? Sure, dude.


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## Bloo (Jun 15, 2015)

Hussain said:


> So, 18 years itachi ran as a rate, but 13 years old itachi is somehow better? Sure, dude.


I'm glad that's the only argument you can seem to regurgitate. Anyways, ignore my posts until you can actually learn to have a civic, intelligent conversation.


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## Trojan (Jun 15, 2015)

There is no "argument". There are 2 types of debate. First, a debate to seek the truth, and the second type is just a controversia where it's a conversation to waste time and effort with no hope at the end of the tunnel. 

The post you replied to me does not even have either, you were nit-picking my dear and searching for anything
even tho it was an obvious typo. 

but whatever suites you sweetheart.


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## Sans (Jun 15, 2015)

Transcendent Shinobi said:


> ^
> 
> Baffles me to this day why people think Itachi can beat Jiraiya and some times even SM Jiraiya with no difficulty or 100% win rate every time.



They understand context better than you do.



ThunderCunt said:


> Another Itachi vs J-Man thread.
> If J-Man was alive and he also participated in power Inflation game, he would have been stronger than Itachi. Itachi was killed by Sauce, who was nowhere as strong at that time. Itachi's top moments are defeating Kabuto and Nagato in ET form, which gave him free pass over his ninja aids.



Congratulations, you also don't understand context.



Hussain said:


> not really. They don't even understand a flat out statement, let a lone a context with no such direct statements.



And you have never understood context.


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## Trojan (Jun 15, 2015)

oh you were fast enough to get that. lol

oh well, since you're the one saying that I will take that as compliment.


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## Bonly (Jun 15, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> *Location*: Open Plain
> *Distance*: 10m
> *Mindset*: IC, intent to kill.
> *Knowledge*: None
> ...





Replace Orochi with Jiraiya, Genjutsu GG folks


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jun 15, 2015)

> Baffles me to this day why people think Itachi can beat Jiraiya and some times even SM Jiraiya with no difficulty or 100% win rate every time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ironically those who say Itachi beats Jiraiya with no effort tend to distort context heavily. That's why it is ironic when you say anyone who has a different opinion to that doesn't understand context while agreeing to the notion Jiraiya _easily_ loses to Itachi. Despite what words and actions in the manga have shown. 

18 year old Itachi says he'd die against Jiraiya, goes through the trouble to lure Jiraiya out before going for Naruto. Then you're saying in a thread which talks about a *13 year old Itachi* that saying Itachi (presumably 13 year old Itachi going by this thread) can beat Jiraiya, base or SM, easily with a 100% win rate. 

Komnenos!


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## Six (Jun 15, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Ironically those who say Itachi beats Jiraiya with no effort tend to distort context heavily. That's why it is ironic when you say anyone who has a different opinion to that doesn't understand context while agreeing to the notion Jiraiya _easily_ loses to Itachi. Despite what words and actions in the manga have shown.
> 
> *18 year old Itachi says he'd die against Jiraiya*, goes through the trouble to lure Jiraiya out before going for Naruto. Then you're saying in a thread which talks about a *13 year old Itachi* that saying Itachi (presumably 13 year old Itachi going by this thread) can beat Jiraiya, base or SM, easily with a 100% win rate.
> 
> Komnenos!



You realize he wasn't talking about Jiraiya but actually Kurama somehow breaking free


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jun 15, 2015)

Law Trafalgar said:


> You realize he wasn't talking about Jiraiya but actually Kurama somehow breaking free



You do realise that didn't reference Kurama breaking free at all. It made it look like they were talking about _Naruto_ not Kurama himself. *Yet* the actions themselves indicate Kurama, nor Naruto, were actually a problem, rather it was Jiraiya.

Otherwise they wouldn't go through the trouble to get rid of Jiraiya, then run when he enters.

Focusing on words and not imagery/actions seem to be popular Itachi arguments nowadays.


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## Six (Jun 15, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> You do realise that didn't reference Kurama breaking free at all. It made it look like they were talking about _Naruto_ not Kurama himself. *Yet* the actions themselves indicate Kurama, nor Naruto, were actually a problem, rather it was Jiraiya.
> 
> Otherwise they wouldn't go through the trouble to get rid of Jiraiya, then run when he enters.
> 
> Focusing on words and not imagery/actions seem to be popular Itachi arguments nowadays.



No matter how much you hate it, that's what it is, they were talking about a full blown battle against Kurama. That was the worst case scenario.

Other than that, why not distract him, would you rather get injured in a battle or work around your opponent. You'd make a shitty ninja since it seems you'd just run in and charge at your enemy.

No, you're just lost inside your fog of ignorance and idiocy that anything even slightly pro Itachi causes you to bust a nut and go blind with rage. Go tell your therapist about that one fiction character you spend everyday trying to bash.


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## Rocky (Jun 15, 2015)

Itachi's going to win with genjutsu.

Jiraiya without knowledge is going to fair the same as his pier. 

I don't know if Itachi was 13 there though.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jun 15, 2015)

Law Trafalgar said:


> No matter how much you hate it, that's what it is, they were talking about a full blown battle against Kurama. That was the worst case scenario.



Yet they weren't worried Kurama when Jiraiya wasn't there... 



> No, you're just lost inside your fog of ignorance and idiocy that anything even slightly pro Itachi causes you to bust a nut and go blind with rage. Go tell your therapist about that one fiction character you spend everyday trying to bash.



The pro Itachi arguments are, to be frank, garbage. Distorting context and ignoring words and actions when it suits pro Itachi arguments aren't the way to make credible arguments. 

Make a credible Itachi argument, then you have a case.


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## Elite Uchiha (Jun 15, 2015)

Itachi stated that Jiraiya was superior to him.

Itachi's opinion > yours


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 15, 2015)

Kisame implied that a Sick, fatigued Itachi should be able to handle Jiraiya and that's excluding his MS as Kisame suggested he shouldn't use it. Even then, we can't even take that statement seriously as they were solely basing Jiraiya's strength on hype and not feats and even feats suggests that Itachi is Jiraiya's superior.


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## Skywalker (Jun 16, 2015)

Jiraiya wins casually. 

Unless he uses Sage Mode, in which case Itachi beats him like a red headed step child.


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## Bloo (Jun 16, 2015)

Elite Uchiha said:


> Itachi stated that Jiraiya was superior to him.
> 
> Itachi's opinion > yours


Itachi also stated *only* an Uchiha can defeat him.

As you yourself said, "Itachi's opinion > yours."

Newsflash: Itachi was a glorified liar. Use feats if you want to be taken seriously.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 16, 2015)

Given this kind of knowledge, Itachi deals with him the same way he had taken down Orochimaru.
Jiraiya needs skewed conditions to even stand a chance against Itachi.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 16, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> 18 year old Itachi says he'd die against Jiraiya,



And @ some point Kyuubi was a mindless rampaging beast who was known to be a natural disaster. Then he turned out to be a tactical mastermind.

The author made some changes through the course of the manga. Clinging on to a debatable statement(Itachi was lying because he was a spy) that was made long before Itachi or Jiraiya had any proper development, despite all the contrary evidence  that came afterwards shows how desperate you are.


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## Duhul10 (Jun 16, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Kisame implied that a Sick, fatigued Itachi should be able to handle Jiraiya and that's excluding his MS as Kisame suggested he shouldn't use it. Even then, we can't even take that statement seriously as they were solely basing Jiraiya's strength on hype and not feats and even feats suggests that Itachi is Jiraiya's superior.




   That is your opinion, I consider Sm Jiraiya clearly superior to MS Itachi, simply because he has The tools to beat him .
    Kisame did not know anything about Jiraiya, bar he was a sannin,so he Said that base Itachi Could Take on base Jiraiya and that was not even certainly


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## Ersa (Jun 16, 2015)

So what I'm getting from this thread is, the Sannin are equal when it suits the debater but when it doesn't suit the debater Jiraiya is a step above his peers. Sounds like a double standard to me.


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## Elite Uchiha (Jun 16, 2015)

Never thought Tsunade or Orochimaru were on par with HM Jiraiya. Thats just crazy.


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## Sadgoob (Jun 16, 2015)

Duhul10 said:


> That is your opinion, I consider Sm Jiraiya clearly superior to MS Itachi



In what area involving skill is Jiraiya clearly superior to Itachi?


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 16, 2015)

Duhul10 said:


> That is your opinion, I consider Sm Jiraiya clearly superior to MS Itachi, simply because he has The tools to beat him .
> Kisame did not know anything about Jiraiya, bar he was a sannin,so he Said that base Itachi Could Take on base Jiraiya and that was not even certainly



_this_

 No, Kisame said it for certain and considering Itachi is considered to be Orochimaru's superior who's also a Sannin, it's not ridiculous for Kisame's statement to be taken seriously.

 Not that it matters. Part 2 and War Arc Inflation alone puts Itachi far above SM Jiraiya.


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## Duhul10 (Jun 16, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> _this_
> 
> No, Kisame said it for certain and considering Itachi is considered to be Orochimaru's superior who's also a Sannin, it's not ridiculous for Kisame's statement to be taken seriously.
> 
> Not that it matters. Part 2 and War Arc Inflation alone puts Itachi far above SM Jiraiya.



I agree, war arc feats put Itachi over Jiraiya, but part 2 doesn't , not at all.
You see it The way you want to.


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## Bloo (Jun 16, 2015)

Duhul10 said:


> I agree, *war arc feats put Itachi over Jiraiya, but part 2 doesn't *, not at all.
> You see it The way you want to.


Isn't the War Arc in Part II? I hope you meant to say living Itachi, or Pre-War Arc.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jun 16, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Kisame implied that a Sick, fatigued Itachi should be able to handle Jiraiya and that's excluding his MS as Kisame suggested he shouldn't use it. Even then, we can't even take that statement seriously as they were solely basing Jiraiya's strength on hype and not feats and even feats suggests that Itachi is Jiraiya's superior.



Except you need to prove that was sick Itachi. His speed wasn't compromised like it was when he was sick. 
Who knows where you're getting that statement excludes the MS. 

Nothing suggests Jiraiya is inferior to Itachi. However we see Itachi saying he'd die against Jiraiya, even if Kisame was there. Then going through the trouble of actually luring Jiraiya away before trying anything on Naruto. Then running away shortly after Jiraiya goes on the offensive.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> And @ some point Kyuubi was a mindless rampaging beast who was known to be a natural disaster. Then he turned out to be a tactical mastermind.



Which Itachi could control with his eye. Also this mindless beast who also happened to be a tactical mastermind didn't seem to scare Itachi; Jiraiya scared Itachi. Hence Jiraiya was lured away. 
Kurama would've been a real threat if Naruto could actually use Kurama's power like a proper Jinchuriki.



> The author made some changes through the course of the manga. Clinging on to a debatable statement(Itachi was lying because he was a spy) that was made long before Itachi or Jiraiya had any proper development, despite all the contrary evidence  that came afterwards shows how desperate you are.



Debatable statement. 

Itachi said he'd die to Jiraiya then goes through the trouble of luring Jiraiya away. Nothing debatable about that, hombre. 

Now we're going back to the fabricated "Itachi lied" statements? I mean the ones which extend beyond what Itachi actually lied about, y'know the lies the manga actually exposed. 
Evidence he lied about the statement about Jiraiya would help your case.

You're in no position to comment on any position's desperation when you're clinging onto "Itachi lied" while ignoring the fact that following what you call "a debatable statement" Itachi actually went through the trouble of getting Jiraiya away from Naruto before trying anything. 

This was Itachi when he was older than the Itachi ITT. So unless you want to tell me Itachi's development capped at 13, I'm going to lean towards 13 year old Itachi losing.

Now if we assume Itachi's stamina grew since he was 13, then that probably means something like 2-3 MS shots would make him drop dead as opposed to 4-5 MS shots when he was in his early 20s.


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## Duhul10 (Jun 17, 2015)

Bloo said:


> Isn't the War Arc in Part II? I hope you meant to say living Itachi, or Pre-War Arc.



Yes, Alive Itachi


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 17, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Which Itachi could control with his eye. Also this mindless beast who also happened to be a tactical mastermind didn't seem to scare Itachi; Jiraiya scared Itachi. Hence Jiraiya was lured away.
> Kurama would've been a real threat if Naruto could actually use Kurama's power like a proper Jinchuriki.


What are you talking about ?
I am just pointing out an inconsistency. Like many others.
Things can change during the course of the manga. Holding on to a debatable statement from 10 years ago is desperation @ its finest. Especially considering you'r ignoring every bit of evidence that came after it, just so you can keep holding on to it.



> Debatable statement.
> 
> Itachi said he'd die to Jiraiya then goes through the trouble of luring Jiraiya away. Nothing debatable about that, hombre.


Itachi was a spy, of course he was lying.
He had no intention of capturing Naruto or fighting Jiraiya : 
Kakashi looks much older here
Kakashi looks much older here
You gotta read the manga, hombre.



> Now we're going back to the fabricated "Itachi lied" statements? I mean the ones which extend beyond what Itachi actually lied about, y'know the lies the manga actually exposed.
> Evidence he lied about the statement about Jiraiya would help your case.


Evidence is the manga.



> You're in no position to comment on any position's desperation when you're clinging onto "Itachi lied" while ignoring the fact that following what you call "a debatable statement" Itachi actually went through the trouble of getting Jiraiya away from Naruto before trying anything.


The reason why Itachi wanted to avoid fighting Jiraiya had nothing to do with Jiraiya's capabilities.
He simply didn't want to fight because he had no reason to. He didn't want to fight the Konoha Jounins as well, and only did when he was forced to.



> This was Itachi when he was older than the Itachi ITT. So unless you want to tell me Itachi's development capped at 13, I'm going to lean towards 13 year old Itachi losing.


13 year old Itachi 1 paneled Jiraiya's peer , Orochimaru.
Itachi was obviously lying, because Itachi didn't correct Kisame when Kisame said the reputation of the legendary Sannin made them look like nothing.



> Now if we assume Itachi's stamina grew since he was 13, then that probably means something like 2-3 MS shots would make him drop dead as opposed to 4-5 MS shots when he was in his early 20s.


Implying Itachi'd need MS to defeat Jiraiya 
Orochimaru needs to have a word.


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## Duhul10 (Jun 17, 2015)

Lel, Itachi did not want to capture Naruto, yet came after him, tricked Jiraiya to avoid conflict  and let Kisame harm Naruto, he put Kakashi into hospital while they could just run away without conflict.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 17, 2015)

Duhul10 said:


> Lel, Itachi did not want to capture Naruto, yet came after him, tricked Jiraiya to avoid conflict  and let Kisame harm Naruto, he put Kakashi into hospital while they could just run away without conflict.


When did Kisame harm Naruto ? 

They'd fight Jiraiya had Jiraiya attempted to chase after them, but he didn't. 
Jounins wouldn't just let them go.


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## Duhul10 (Jun 17, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> When did Kisame harm Naruto ?
> 
> They'd fight Jiraiya had Jiraiya attempted to chase after them, but he didn't.
> Jounins wouldn't just let them go.



When the frog appeared. If it wasn't Jiraiya, Naruto would have been dead meat

Kakashi looks much older here
Kisame says he should cut off a leg and Itachi doesn't say no

Kakashi looks much older here
Here, Jiraiya saves Naruto and Itachi just looks and lets Kisame attack


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## Atlantic Storm (Jun 17, 2015)

This has gone on for long enough.


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