# Donquixote Doflamingo vs Phoenix Marco (Chapter 781 spoilers).



## Dragon D. Luffy (Mar 26, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Now taking into consideration the last chapter's update on Doflamingo's powers.

Regenerator vs Regenerator.


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## Ruse (Mar 26, 2015)

Didn't Doffy say it wasn't regeneration?......


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## LyricalMessiah (Mar 26, 2015)

Marco wins with High difficulty at best. He's less versatile than Doflamigo, albeit his regeneration ability will be a hassle for Doflamingo to counter against especially seeing as how it withstood a full frontal attack from Kizaru's Yasakani No magatama that is an attack beyond anything Doflamingo has shown as far as destructiveness is concerned and regenerated without any sort of impediments afterwards. He's capable of dodging Marco's strong kicks with his agility and is overall strong enough to push Marco to High difficulty.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Mar 26, 2015)

You have to wait till the chapter is out of the telegrams to post a thread with information from it. Atleast spoiler tag it and indicate spoilers


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Mar 26, 2015)

Technically it's not a regeneration, but seems to work like one.



IchijiNijiSanji said:


> You have to wait till the chapter is out of the telegrams to post a thread with information from it. Atleast spoiler tag it and indicate spoilers



Ok, sorry. Spoiler tag editted in.


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## GrizzlyClaws (Mar 26, 2015)

Doffy himself said it's not healing.


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## Amol (Mar 26, 2015)

Sigh .........
Doflamingo doesn't have any kind of regeneration and he can't heal any injury.
He can just do what resembles to First Aid .
Marco wins with Mid(high) diff.


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## Bitty (Mar 26, 2015)

It's not the same thing. Not even close.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Dofla is slowly stitching his organs back together. Literally trying to piece them up & hold them together, just to stay alive. He said it himself, it's not the same as healing 




Marco can immediately regenerate from an explosion blowing his face off & after being hit with multiple lasers through his back & heart while under the effects of sea-stone....good as new.

Marco is the stronger fighter overall, but Dofla should be able to challenge him to a degree.
Marco's speed, haki, physical strength, & defense will eventually overwhelm Dofla. Honestly, every attack Dofla has shown(besides birdcage), Marco would probably laugh off compared to all the top tier attacks he took in MF & we still don't the limit to Marco's regeneration


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## Kaiser (Mar 26, 2015)

Marco mid-high difficulty


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## Ghost (Mar 26, 2015)

Marco takes wins with solid high diff. No way is he mid diffing Mingo.


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## Bernkastel (Mar 26, 2015)

DD can't regenerate.
As Bitty said he just stiched his organs to barely stay alive.
Marco mid(high) diffs him and shows him how a true regenerator works


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## Ajin (Mar 26, 2015)

Marco extreme diff (Parasite restricted), he has better strength and regeneration hax, possibly stronger CoA (though he wasn't able to hurt any admiral on MF). On the other hand Doflamingo have Black Knight, better DC, more versatility and long-range attacks, all he needs is to play smart and he will push Marco very far.


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## Lawliet (Mar 26, 2015)

Either way extreme difficulty.


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## Luke (Mar 26, 2015)

Marco wins with medium difficulty. His feats are far better, and obviously his hype as the right hand man of Whitebeard is way out of Doflamingo's league.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 26, 2015)

Marco Mid (high) - High (low) diff.


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## Lawliet (Mar 26, 2015)

Luke said:


> Marco wins with medium difficulty. His feats are far better, and obviously his hype as the right hand man of Whitebeard is way out of Doflamingo's league.



So what? And DD is the leader of the entire underworld of the NW. He's the person people like Kaidou goes to for increasing the strength of his army. He's the guy a former admiral warned smoker about and called it the most dire situation Akainu must go through since he got his new job. Doffy is the step stone that will take luffy to first mate levels. If luffy can best Doffy and get stronger by doing so, then luffy has s fair shot at beating Marco or any first mate of a yonkou.


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## Ajin (Mar 26, 2015)

Luke said:
			
		

> Marco wins with medium difficulty. His feats are far better, and obviously his hype as the right hand man of Whitebeard is way out of Doflamingo's league.



He has no feats, that is his problem. As far i remember, Marco didn't hurt ANYONE in Marineford. He once sent Aokiji flying, once kicked Kizaru into ground and once cut Akainu, but he never actually give them any damage. 

Doflamingo got a lots of hype and feat in Dressrosa, he has an admiral in his own arc and still has the best portrayal on the island . He proved himself to be a powerhouse, an extremely hax, competent C2C fighter, with good durability and speed. And while i agree that Marco hype is overall better (especially now after he took a command over Whitebeard pirates) it is not way out of Doflamingo's league for sure. Both are captains in one of the strongest non-Yonko crews in New World.

Maybe it's time to get used that Doflamingo is a legit top-tier? He has both hype and feats to be the one, why people are still trying to deny that?


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## Lawliet (Mar 26, 2015)

Was it even confirmed Marco took over the WB's? 

They didn't even attempt to get ace's fruit back. They might not have the underworld connections, but that's sad in itself. Or they simply know fucking with Doffy is no joke


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## Luke (Mar 26, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> So what? And DD is the leader of the entire underworld of the NW. He's the person people like Kaidou goes to for increasing the strength of his army. He's the guy a former admiral warned smoker about and called it the most dire situation Akainu must go through since he got his new job. Doffy is the step stone that will take luffy to first mate levels. If luffy can best Doffy and get stronger by doing so, then luffy has s fair shot at beating Marco or any first mate of a yonkou.



That's true, and he's also the person who breaks out into a cold sweat and grimaces when he hears Kaidou being mentioned. Doesn't sound like something a Top Tier would do to me. 



Ajin said:


> He has no feats, that is his problem. As far i remember, Marco didn't hurt ANYONE in Marineford. He once sent Aokiji flying, once kicked Kizaru into ground and once cut Akainu, but he never actually give them any damage.
> 
> Doflamingo got a lot of hype and feat in Dressrosa, he has an admiral in his own arc and still has a the most better portrayal on island . He proved himself to be a powerhouse, an extremely hax, good C2C fighter, with good durability and speed. And while i agree that Marco hype is overall better (especially now after he took a command over Whitebeard pirates) it is not way out of Doflamingo's league for sure. Both are captains in one of the strongest non-Yonko crew in New World.
> 
> Maybe it's time to get used that Doflamingo is a legit top-tier? He has both hype and feats to be the one, why people are still trying to deny that?



What do you mean he has no feats? You're talking about guys who can fight each other for 10 straight days until they're defeated, of course a single unnamed attack isn't going to do them significant visible damage. 

Doflamingo has better portrayal than Fujitora? What? Do you remember him freaking out over a single one of Fuji's meteors? 

It's true Doflamingo has proven himself to be extremely powerful, but he's done nothing even close to legitimately fighting an Admiral. 

No he does not have the hype and feats of a top tier. What's his best feat, defeating a tired Law and having the upper hand against Luffy so far? How does that make him a top tier?


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## Harard (Mar 26, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Either way extreme difficulty.



Either way, huh? You do realize this is Whitebeard's strongest fighter we're talking about here, right? If he's not good enough to beat Doflamingo comfortably, then he doesn't deserve the hype he received from the Gorosei. 

Also, this is a Yonkou crew we're talking about here. You don't really think Dofla will be on the same level as EOS Zoro, do you?


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## Ajin (Mar 26, 2015)

Luke said:
			
		

> What do you mean he has no feats? You're talking about guys who can fight each other for 10 straight days until they're defeated, of course a single unnamed attack isn't going to do them significant visible damage.



Wait, so you know that Marco didn't hurt any admiral, but it doesn't matter? Only because he hit them it means he has a good feats? Are you serious? I don't fucking believe it. 



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> Doflamingo has better portrayal than Fujitora? What? Do you remember him freaking out over a single one of Fuji's meteors?



No, i remember Doflamingo who was pissed because a man who was suppose to be his ally attacked him. Doflamingo cut Fuji's meteor into small pieces with no-named attack and called him a stray mutt soon after.

Fuji's meteors wasn't able to even shake a Bird Cage, he fought two times against Zoro and made him a little bleed, while Doflamingo was consistently beating the shit out of people stronger than Zoro. Doffy was considered by ex-admiral as a threat for whole Marines, he said that he will take care of Fujitora, he also directly threaten him. When Fuji is portrayal as a incompetent fool, Doflamingo has another badass moment. 



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> t's true Doflamingo has proven himself to be extremely powerful, but he's done nothing even close to legitimately fighting an Admiral.



He just stomped a few high-high tiers and now he has to be a severely weakened to make Luffy's win possible. He done much more than Fujitora to prove himself a top-tier. If it wasn't about his title, Fuji would be consider as weaker than Doflamingo for sure. And because Doffy is lacking of title or legit clash with another top-tier, people will be deny about his strength forever. Nice logic there. 



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> No he does not have the hype and feats of a top tier. What's his best feat, defeating a tired Law and having the upper hand against Luffy so far? How does that make him a top tier?



He showed better DC, hax, speed, durability, skill and haki than 90% of top-tiers. If Doflamingo was called the strongest Shichibukai, his feats would suddenly become a proof of his top-tier strength. But lel no, let's keep him forever in high-tier because he never fought against an admiral.


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## mykel23 (Mar 26, 2015)

Doffy being top tier is hilarious. Top tiers get caught by the Law-Luffy switcheroo trick? Yaboy shits his pants everytime he is reminded that if he fucks up Kaidou is gonna come for his cookies, top tier for real. Marco mid diffs. Marco's inability to damage any Admirals during MF speaks more to his fruit is more defense oriented and how strong Admirals are than Marco being weak. Doff is strong don't get me wrong, without Law's help he can beat Luffy, but he loses to Marco.


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## Ajin (Mar 26, 2015)

mykel23 said:


> Doffy being top tier is hilarious. Top tiers get caught by the Law-Luffy switcheroo trick?



Doflamingo was caught by extremely hax and he was fighting against two high-high tiers at the same time. Is it worse than Fujitora being pushed back by no-named Zoro's slash? Or we have nice double-standards here?


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## Luke (Mar 26, 2015)

Ajin said:


> Wait, so you know that Marco didn't hurt any admiral, but it doesn't matter? Only because he hit them it means he has a good feats? Are you serious? I don't fucking believe it.



He overpowered them. I've explained why there was no significant visible damage. 



Ajin said:


> No, i remember Doflamingo who was pissed because a man who was suppose to be his ally attacked him. Doflamingo cut Fuji's meteor into small peaces with no-named attack and called him a stray mutt soon after.
> 
> Fuji's meteors wasn't able even shake a Bird Cage, he fought two times against Zoro and made him a little bleed, while Doflamingo was consistently beating the shit out of people stronger than Zoro. Doffy was considered by ex-admiral as a threat for whole Marines, he said that he will take care of Fujitora, he also directly threaten him. When Fuji is portrayal as a incompetent fool, Doflamingo has another badass moment.



Oh boy. 

Do you honestly believe Fujitora can't even "shake" the Bird Cage? He tried to destroy it with a single meteor and it didn't work. Fujitora obviously has far more power than that, not to mention he was specifically stalling for time during that scene. 

Fujitora was heavily holding back on Zoro, I shouldn't have to explain why. If he fought Zoro 1 on 1 like Doflamingo did with Law, you bet your ass Zoro would be a heap of dead flesh by the time the Admiral's done with him. 

Fujitora's personality has nothing to do with his strength, that's an awful, awful argument. 




Ajin said:


> He just stomped a few high-high tiers and now he has to be a severely weakened to make Luffy's win possible. He done much more than Fujitora to prove himself a top-tier. If it wasn't about his title, Fuji would be consider as weaker than Doflamingo for sure. And because Doffy is lacking of title or legit clash with another top-tier, people will be deny about his strength forever. Nice logic there.
> 
> He showed better DC, hax, speed, durability, skill and haki than 90% of top-tiers. If Doflamingo was called the strongest Shichibukai, his feats would suddenly become a proof of his top-tier strength. But lel no, let's keep him forever in high-tier because he never fought against an admiral.



Doflamingo did not just stomp a few high-high tiers,* stop making stuff up*. He defeated an injured Law and was badly wounded in the process. He didn't stomp jackshit. 

It's very solid logic, actually. I'm not surprised you don't follow. 

Complete crap. And guess what? Doflamingo would never be called the strongest Shichibukai, because it's as clear as daylight to anyone with at least semi-decent reading comprehension that this is clearly not the case.


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## Kaiser (Mar 26, 2015)

Wait people are comparing Doflamingo to Fujitora now? O_o


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## Typhon (Mar 26, 2015)

I never get people bringing up the Kaidou thing. The _entirety of the marines_ went into an uproar on having to deal with two yonkou at the same time, but Doflamingo breaking into a cold sweat _at the thought of dealing with Kaidou and his allies_ automatically means he's not top tier...Where's the logic.

Depending on how this goes, I could definitely see Doflamingo being low top tier. I already considered him stronger then Jozu, but the sheer hax and versatality he brings to the table can push him into the top tier range. 

For now, Marco still wins though. That regen can be a bitch for someone like Doflamingo who has no way of doing continuous damage.


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## Empathy (Mar 26, 2015)

Marco with a solid amount of mid difficulty. Doflamingo would give him a hard time, but I don't think he could ever put his life in danger. Marco's nigh admiral-level, in my opinion.


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## Ajin (Mar 26, 2015)

Luke said:
			
		

> He *overpowered* them. I've explained why there was no significant visible damage.





He overpowered them the same as Zoro overpowered Fujitora. 



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> Do you honestly believe Fujitora can't even "shake" the Bird Cage? He tried to destroy it with a single meteor and it didn't work. Fujitora obviously has far more power than that, not to mention he was specifically stalling for time during that scene.



You miss the point, i am not trying to say that Doflamingo is stronger than Fujitora (or Bird Cage is indestructible for Fuji in this case), i am talking about their portrayal. When Fujiitora attacked a BC and did shit, it increased Doflamingo's hype, with naturally made his portrayal better. 



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> Fujitora was heavily holding back on Zoro, I shouldn't have to explain why. If he fought Zoro 1 on 1 like Doflamingo did with Law, you bet your ass Zoro would be a heap of dead flesh by the time the Admiral's done with him.



Yes, but still if we talking about portrayal, comparing Doflamingo vs Luffy/Law and Fujitora vs Zoro, Doflamingo is clearly better here. Just like Zoro was better than Sanji in early Dressrosa, despite of intent of their opponents. 



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> Fujitora's personality has nothing to do with his strength, that's an awful, awful argument.



So Fujitora being incompetent for pretty much the whole time has nothing to do with his portrayal? 



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> Doflamingo did not just stomp a few high-high tiers, stop making stuff up. He defeated an injured Law and was badly wounded in the process. He didn't stomp jackshit.



Said by the guy who thinks that Marco overpowered admirals. Stomping was obliviously exaggeration, but it doesn't change the fact that Doflamingo was casually beating Luffy in H2H combat even though he isn't a brawler type of fighter. Law despite of all of his hax wasn't able to touch Doflamingo without using a tricks or / and Luffy's help. And it's a feat, consider that both of them are high-high tiers and Doflamingo isn't even seriously trying. 



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> Complete crap. And guess what? Doflamingo would never be called the strongest Shichibukai, because it's as clear as daylight to anyone with at least semi-decent reading comprehension that this is clearly not the case.



This is funny. Luffy will soon beat one of Yonko, i am curious if even then people will prefer to think that Luffy has become so strong in such a short time or Doflamingo was actually stronger than they previously thought. Well, whatever. Sometimes discussion in OPBD is like talking to the wall. It's fine that you has the one, undeniable truth on your side.


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## Bernkastel (Mar 26, 2015)

Ajin said:


> He overpowered them the same as Zoro overpowered Fujitora.



Zoro slightly pushing back Fuji with a sneak attack =/= Sending Kizaru flying with a casual kick.


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## Luke (Mar 26, 2015)

Ajin said:


> He overpowered them the same as Zoro overpowered Fujitora.



Nonsense. Re-read Marco vs Kizaru and then re-read Zoro vs Fujitora. Obviously there's a difference. 



Ajin said:


> You miss the point, i am not trying to say that Doflamingo is stronger than Fujitora (or Bird Cage is indestructible for Fuji in this case), i am talking about their portrayal. When Fujiitora attacked a BC and did shit, it increased Doflamingo's hype, with naturally made his portrayal better.



I'm not arguing that Doflamingo has strong portrayal. I'm arguing that it's not on par with the portrayal of an Admiral, or by extension a Yonkou first mate. 



Ajin said:


> Yes, but still if we talking about portrayal, comparing Doflamingo vs Luffy/Law and Fujitora vs Zoro, Doflamingo is clearly better here. Just like Zoro was better than Sanji in early Dressrosa, despite of intent of their opponents.



Zoro vs Fujitora was a brief skirmish. Law vs Doflamingo was a full out fight, and the former managed to severely injure Doflamingo. 



Ajin said:


> So Fujitora being incompetent for pretty much the whole time has nothing to do with his portrayal?



Kizaru didn't even know how to work a Den Den Mushi back in the Sabaody. Does that hurt his portrayal? 




Ajin said:


> Said by the guy who thinks that Marco overpowered admirals. Stomping was obliviously exaggeration, but it doesn't change the fact that Doflamingo was casually beating Luffy in H2H combat even though he isn't a brawler type of fighter. Law despite of all of his hax wasn't able to touch Doflamingo without using a tricks or / and Luffy's help. And it's a feat, consider that both of them are high-high tiers and Doflamingo isn't even seriously trying.



Prove Doflamingo wasn't trying.

And Law wasn't using tricks...he was using his abilities. 



Ajin said:


> This is funny. Luffy will soon beat one of Yonko,



Thanks for the input Oda. 



Ajin said:


> i am curious if even then people will prefer to think that Luffy has become so strong in such a short time or Doflamingo was actually stronger than they previously thought. Well, whatever. Sometimes discussion in OPBD is like talking to the wall. It's fine that you has the one, undeniable truth on your side.



I have yet to see any solid arguments from you, let alone undeniable truth.


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## Tenma (Mar 26, 2015)

DD does have better portrayal than Fuji currently. Fuji has no reason to keep the Birdcage up and we know his biggest meteor couldn't do shit to it. DD has shown no fear in threatening Fuji and was confident in defeating him. Fuji just looks helpless against DD who threatens to kill everyone including him. Only thing Fuji has for him is hype which through Mihawk we know that a Shichi can be in the same league as an Admiral.

As for feats

DD

Effortlessly turned Jozu into a chair
No diffed Atmos
No differ Smoker
Stomped 2 other VAs
Crushed Law and Sanji in combat

Fuji

Beat Law in tandem with DD.
Unable to gain advantage over Zoro twice
Stalemated Sabo
Attacks generally ineffective against high tiers


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## Gohara (Mar 26, 2015)

Marco wins with high to extremely high difficulty.  Both are around Admiral level, IMO.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Mar 26, 2015)

mykel23 said:


> Top tiers get caught by the Law-Luffy switcheroo trick?



Being a top tier doesn't make you omniscient. Anybody can be outsmarted by anyone.

Just saying.


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## Luke (Mar 27, 2015)

Tenma said:


> DD does have better portrayal than Fuji currently. Fuji has no reason to keep the Birdcage up and we know his biggest meteor couldn't do shit to it. DD has shown no fear in threatening Fuji and was confident in defeating him. Fuji just looks helpless against DD who threatens to kill everyone including him. Only thing Fuji has for him is hype which through Mihawk we know that a Shichi can be in the same league as an Admiral.



Doflamingo said the Donquxiote Pirates will have trouble defeating Fujitora...and keep in mind Doflamingo often heavily overestimates the power of his subordinates. He thought Vergo could handle Law, Smoker, and the Straw Hats with the help of Monet.  




Tenma said:


> DD
> 
> Effortlessly turned Jozu into a chair
> No diffed Atmos
> ...



-Hax is hax and Jozu was caught off guard. 
-Since when does no diffing one of WB's weakest, if not the weakest, commander make you a top tier? 
-No diffing Smoker doesn't automatically make you a top tier, but we didn't see that fight anyway. 
-Also 2 of the least hyped VAs shown so far. 
-Crushed Law? Are you kidding me? Doflamingo was severely injured after putting down an exhausted and wounded Law. 



Tenma said:


> Fuji
> 
> Beat Law in tandem with DD.
> Unable to gain advantage over Zoro twice
> ...



-Of course. 
-Utter bullshit. Casually sending someone flying down into a pit and taking zero damage from their counter attack is not failing to overpower someone. 
-And he made it clear that he was just buying time. Being able to stalemate the equivalent to a Yonkou first mate is a superior feat to anything Doflamingo has going for him. 
-Once again, bullshit. Law destroyed a single meteor from a "warming up" Fujitora. That's all.


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## LyricalMessiah (Mar 27, 2015)

Luke said:


> -No diffing Smoker doesn't automatically make you a top tier, but we didn't see



What do you mean with "We didn't see that fight anyway" We did see that fight between Doflamingo and Smoker in the Manga with Doflamingo coming out as the victor in his clash against Smoker by effortlessly defeating him with a wave of his hand in the direction of Smoker in the panel that Smoker featured in with a fountain of blood coming from his body subsequently after Doflamingo's effortless attack on him.  There was adequate content in that panel for us to conclude that Doflamingo effortlessly defeated Smoker.


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## Ryuksgelus (Mar 27, 2015)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...





*Spoiler*: __ 



Explicitly says it is not regeneration. OP calls it regeneration? 

How does that work? 

Doffy says it is just an emergency procedure. All it is doing is slowly healing shredded up organs  so he doesn't die on the spot. The damage is still there. The strings will repair him after the fight is over. They are not healed instantaneously or even quickly


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## Luke (Mar 27, 2015)

LyricalMessiah said:


> What do you with "We didn't see that fight anyway" We did see that fight between Doflamingo and Smoker in the Manga with Doflamingo coming out as the victor in his clash against Smoker by effortlessly defeating him with a wave of his hand in the direction of Smoker in the panel that Smoker featured in with a fountain of blood coming from his body subsequently after Doflamingo's effortless attack on him.  There was adequate content in that panel for us to conclude that Doflamingo effortlessly defeated Smoker.



We didn't see Smoker go down. You're assuming Doflamingo's first attack took out Smoker. It's absolutely possible it just wounded him, hence the blood. 

There's no right or wrong here because we didn't see the fight, all we know if Doflamingo won without much trouble.


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## Lawliet (Mar 27, 2015)

Harard said:


> Either way, huh? You do realize this is Whitebeard's strongest fighter we're talking about here, right? If he's not good enough to beat Doflamingo comfortably, then he doesn't deserve the hype he received from the Gorosei.
> 
> Also, this is a Yonkou crew we're talking about here. You don't really think Dofla will be on the same level as EOS Zoro, do you?



You think EOS Zoro = Marco ? Jessus

EOS Zoro rapes that parrot and makes him his pet. WB's strongest fighter? what's that supposed to mean?  Doffy is the leader of the entire underworld. THE ENTIRE UNDERWORLD. HE IS THE LEADER OF IT. Why don't we bring the news of Kaidou personally along with this entire army hunting Marco and his men and let's see what he thinks about it. Marco and his buddies are losers, the faster you accept that, the better. DD could be the strongest fighter on a yonkou crew excluding the captain if he was a part of a yonkou crew. It was already implied a few times that DD is not far from being a solid admiral level, which is where I vew Marco, a bit below admiral level.


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## Nox (Mar 27, 2015)

I scale Marco the Phoenix to be at a level that is above Doflamingo. 

He has near impeccable defense thanks to his zoan. On top of this he has impressive physical strength as he was able to overwhelm Kizaru in a clash and was able to send Aoikiji flying after a successful *sneak* attack. There is a common misconception that he is at light speed since he 'kept up with Kizaru who mind you was not in light form. While this statement is a fallacy there is no denying that he has impressive speed. His only downside so far was his haki which was inferior to the likes of Admiral level.

Doflamingo has been shown to be somewhat of an offensive dynamite. He is fast, has great reactions and his attacks pack quite the punch. He should be capable of pushing Marco to high difficulty but will ultimately losses out in the end.


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## Harard (Mar 27, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> You think EOS Zoro = Marco ? Jessus
> 
> EOS Zoro rapes that parrot and makes him his pet. WB's strongest fighter? what's that supposed to mean?  Doffy is the leader of the entire underworld. THE ENTIRE UNDERWORLD. HE IS THE LEADER OF IT. Why don't we bring the news of Kaidou personally along with this entire army hunting Marco and his men and let's see what he thinks about it. Marco and his buddies are losers, the faster you accept that, the better. DD could be the strongest fighter on a yonkou crew excluding the captain if he was a part of a yonkou crew. It was already implied a few times that DD is not far from being a solid admiral level, which is where I vew Marco, a bit below admiral level.



When did I ever say Marco = EOS Zoro. Zoro will obviously be stronger, but you can bet your ass that Marco would give him more than just a decent challenge.

Also, Doflamingo never received the hype that Marco did, so I don't know why you'd think Doflamingo would ever stand a chance against him.


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## Harard (Mar 27, 2015)

I feel like people have the urge to really underrate characters they dislike. Just because you're not a fan of Marco doesn't mean you have to disregard everything he has going for him.


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## Sablés (Mar 27, 2015)

Marco, easy.

There's nothing Doflamingo can do to Marco that he can't regen from and I'm pretty sure the fucker's intangible in phoenix form. That and having much better portrayal and hype.


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## Lawliet (Mar 27, 2015)

Harard said:


> When did I ever say Marco = EOS Zoro. Zoro will obviously be stronger, but you can bet your ass that Marco would give him more than just a decent challenge.
> 
> Also, Doflamingo never received the hype that Marco did, so I don't know why you'd think Doflamingo would ever stand a chance against him.



You just said "You don't really think Dofla will be on the same level as EOS Zoro, do you?" in reply to my "it goes either way extreme difficulty". If that's not you saying Dofla = EOS Zoro then I don't know what is. 

What hype did Marco get? You're talking about the grosseries? False hype and we all know it. That was the beginning of Oda's false hype train. The only reason people don't think so because it happened so god damn long ago. But it was the beginning, and the mid is Dressorsa and all the false hype we got during this arc. If you don't think so then you're just denying it. The 5 geezers thought Marco along with the remnants of the WB could possibly stop Teach. They spoke of Marco and the remnants in the same sentence as the other yonkou. You really think Marco and his clowns are comparable to a yonkou crew without WB? The answer is, they won't get stomped , but they stand no chance without the old man. If Doffy had Jozu, Vista and every allied crew behind him the same way Marco does, trust me when I say Doffy's threat to the world would be double that of Marco's.


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## Yuki (Mar 28, 2015)

High diff fight for Marco.


----------



## Tenma (Mar 28, 2015)

> Doflamingo said the Donquxiote Pirates will have trouble defeating Fujitora...and keep in mind Doflamingo often heavily overestimates the power of his subordinates. He thought Vergo could handle Law, Smoker, and the Straw Hats with the help of Monet.



If DD attacks Fuji I doubt Fuji will be totally alone. He still had 2 Vice Admirals and 5000 marines with him.



> -Hax is hax and Jozu was caught off guard.
> -Since when does no diffing one of WB's weakest, if not the weakest, commander make you a top tier?
> -No diffing Smoker doesn't automatically make you a top tier, but we didn't see that fight anyway.
> -Also 2 of the least hyped VAs shown so far.
> -Crushed Law? Are you kidding me? Doflamingo was severely injured after putting down an exhausted and wounded Law.



- Hax is power, if not Law is fodder. Also, DD was right in front of him and a certified enemy. Either he got blitzed or he was legitimately unable to avoid parasite.
- How do you know Atmos is the weakest? We know he is weaker than Marco, Jozu, Vista and Ace but he could be stronger than everyone else for all we know.
- Yeah, but its implied DD oneshotted him.
- Cancer and Mozambia have just as much hype as Onigumo, Momonga and Doberman- none. If you are going to assume they are the weakest VAs, I can just as easily assume they are the strongest.
- He owned Law on the bridge with only a scratch to show. If he didn't think Law was dead, and PIS didn't kick in when all his shots missed vital points, or Luffy didn't create an opening, the gamma knife thing would never have happened. Every serious blow Law or Luffy have landed on DD so far, they could not have done so without plot or help. DD is clearly a good amount stronger than Law.



> -Of course.
> -Utter bullshit. Casually sending someone flying down into a pit and taking zero damage from their counter attack is not failing to overpower someone.
> -And he made it clear that he was just buying time. Being able to stalemate the equivalent to a Yonkou first mate is a superior feat to anything Doflamingo has going for him.
> -Once again, bullshit. Law destroyed a single meteor from a "warming up" Fujitora. That's all.



- He nailed Zoro with an undodgeable attack which Zoro shrugged off and countered. Sure, Zoro was the one who emerged with minor damage, but he was able to negate Fuji's attack.
- DD toyed with a Yonko's second. But even that aside, just because DD never fought a YFM doesn't make him weaker than someone who did. Against opponents of comparable level (M3), DD has always come off as the bigger threat.
- Zoro took his gravity attack with little damage. Law destroyed his meteor and sent another crashing into his own battleship, and considering the size of his slashes it is kinda obvious he could destroy Fuji's biggest meteors as well.


----------



## Harard (Mar 28, 2015)

> You just said "You don't really think Dofla will be on the same level as EOS Zoro, do you?" in reply to my "it goes either way extreme difficulty". If that's not you saying Dofla = EOS Zoro then I don't know what is.



First you implied I said Marco = EOS Zoro and now you're implying I said Doflamingo = EOS Zoro? 

As for the reply, that was me saying Marco should be on the same general level as EOS Zoro, nothing more. Does Zoro being on the same level as Luffy means he's equal to Luffy? What about Fujitora? Does him being on the same general level as Akainu means he's equal to to Akainu? Wouldn't you consider the top supernovas to be on the same general level even though one might be stronger than the other? Though Luffy, Law, Kid, Drake, etc. are most likely one the same level, it doesn't make them equals.



> What hype did Marco get? You're talking about the grosseries? False hype and we all know it. That was the beginning of Oda's false hype train. The only reason people don't think so because it happened so god damn long ago. But it was the beginning, and the mid is Dressorsa and all the false hype we got during this arc. If you don't think so then you're just denying it. The 5 geezers thought Marco along with the remnants of the WB could possibly stop Teach. They spoke of Marco and the remnants in the same sentence as the other yonkou. You really think Marco and his clowns are comparable to a yonkou crew without WB? The answer is, they won't get stomped , but they stand no chance without the old man. If Doffy had Jozu, Vista and every allied crew behind him the same way Marco does, trust me when I say Doffy's threat to the world would be double that of Marco's.



All I got from this quote is you like Dofla and you dislike Marco, so you'll just completely disregard everything Oda said and I should take your word instead of his just because you say so. Yeah, it doesn't work that way.


----------



## Freechoice (Mar 28, 2015)

marco mid diff

_maybe _high


----------



## Yuki (Mar 28, 2015)

Of course.

Garp fists both of them at the same time.


----------



## Freechoice (Mar 28, 2015)

Fucking facepalm at the Fuji-Doflamingo comparison

Doflamingo himself said even with his entire crew he only had a _chance_ at taking on Fuji



Juvia. said:


> Of course.
> 
> Garp fists both of them at the same time.



This is a quality post, right here.


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Mar 28, 2015)

> It's absolutely possible it just wounded him, hence the blood.



This post just reeks of blatant fanfiction that you try to pass on as a fact even though you yourself understand how you're trying to complicate and change a scene according to your beliefs of Smoker's overall capabilities. On top of that, you have the audacity to accuse me of 'assuming' what had transpired in their brief clash when there have been no assumptions in my arguments neither can there be any other logical explanation/summary as to how their fight went down than Doflamingo effortlessly taking Smoker down with one effortless attack in his direction. The one who is 'assuming' here is no one else but you. To accuse me of 'assuming' must mean that you don't understand what that word means and the way it could be used in a sentence. Basically, you're trying to dictate what had happened whilst disregarding the clear on-panel portrayal of the huge disparity of strength between Doflamingo and Smoker by Oda himself. Hint; Oda > You. 



> There's no right or wrong here because we didn't see the fight, all we know if Doflamingo won without much trouble.



Smoker did go down in 'one blow' as a matter of fact. Ignore the fact that he did all you want, but you can't deny that Doflamingo's movement of his arm in the direction of Smoker that led to Smoker falling down in the subsequent panel can only be concluded as Doflamingo's attack prevailing in taking down Smoker with the attacker (Doflamingo) bringing Smoker down with relative ease. Plus, Doflamingo 'wasn't' even harmed at all in his supposed exchange that prolonged for a longer period of time than what the Manga actually portrayed of their fight. You're assuming that the fight had prolonged for a longer time than the 'clear' on-panel evidence showing Smoker falling down with his body gushing a fountain of blood from Doflamingo's single attack on him.





> You're assuming Doflamingo's first attack took out Smoker. It's absolutely possible it just wounded him, hence the blood.



The one assuming that he didn't go down is you whilst ignoring on panel evidence that he went down with  his body oozing blood all through in the subsequent scene prior to the scene portraying Doflamingo 'swinging' his arm in the direction of Smoker. If you understood what the word 'assumption' meant, then you wouldn't  unnecessarily be accusing me of making 'assumptions'.



Do you actually need assistance to understand what had transpired in that panel that I linked earlier?  I can be your assistant to clear each and every misconception you have of that scene on that panel tainting your mind. We can go through each and every single scene on that panel that I linked. It's your choice.


----------



## Amol (Mar 28, 2015)

Harard said:


> I feel like people have the urge to really underrate characters they dislike. Just because you're not a fan of Marco doesn't mean you have to disregard everything he has going for him.



This really is the truth .


----------



## blueframe01 (Mar 28, 2015)

Marco wins with Mid difficulty. Dofla is a still considerably weaker than an admiral level fighter.


----------



## Captain Altintop (Mar 28, 2015)

Marco can push an average Admiral to high (mid) diff. 
DD can push an average Admiral to mid (high) diff.

Including the matchup, Marco beats DD with high (low) diff.


----------



## Luke (Mar 28, 2015)

Tenma said:


> If DD attacks Fuji I doubt Fuji will be totally alone. He still had 2 Vice Admirals and 5000 marines with him.



Right, but Doflamingo specifically mentioned taking out Fujitora. He wasn't talking about all the marines on Dressrossa. 



Tenma said:


> - Hax is power, if not Law is fodder. Also, DD was right in front of him and a certified enemy. Either he got blitzed or he was legitimately unable to avoid parasite.
> - How do you know Atmos is the weakest? We know he is weaker than Marco, Jozu, Vista and Ace but he could be stronger than everyone else for all we know.
> - Yeah, but its implied DD oneshotted him.
> - Cancer and Mozambia have just as much hype as Onigumo, Momonga and Doberman- none. If you are going to assume they are the weakest VAs, I can just as easily assume they are the strongest.
> - He owned Law on the bridge with only a scratch to show. If he didn't think Law was dead, and PIS didn't kick in when all his shots missed vital points, or Luffy didn't create an opening, the gamma knife thing would never have happened. Every serious blow Law or Luffy have landed on DD so far, they could not have done so without plot or help. DD is clearly a good amount stronger than Law.



-I'm not saying hax can't be factored into overall power, but it's very easy to catch someone off guard with hax. Caesar did the same to Luffy at Punk Hazard. 
-His lack of overall relevance during the war along with Doflamingo easily controlling him, something he has not been shown to be able to do to M3 level fighters or higher. 
-Fair enough. 
-Not true. Cancer and Mozambia didn't cuff Marco. They weren't trusted to escort Ace to Marineford. They weren't given the relevance of the Buster Call Vice Admirals. There's clearly a difference in portrayal despite them being the same "rank". 
-Doflamingo was fighting Law after him and Fujitora had just gotten done laying the Super Nova facedown into a pit. He was extremely exhausted and wounded when he fought Doflamingo, and still managed to slash his face. I consider that impressive. 



Tenma said:


> - He nailed Zoro with an undodgeable attack which Zoro shrugged off and countered. Sure, Zoro was the one who emerged with minor damage, but he was able to negate Fuji's attack.
> - DD toyed with a Yonko's second. But even that aside, just because DD never fought a YFM doesn't make him weaker than someone who did. Against opponents of comparable level (M3), DD has always come off as the bigger threat.
> - Zoro took his gravity attack with little damage. Law destroyed his meteor and sent another crashing into his own battleship, and considering the size of his slashes it is kinda obvious he could destroy Fuji's biggest meteors as well.



-The difference is, Zoro was coughing and groaning as he escaped Fujitora's attack, while Fujitora casually avoids his counter attack with no concern whatsoever. 
-With hax. He never actually fought Jozu. I'm not sure what you mean by Doflamingo coming off as a bigger threat. 
-It's certainly possible, but we haven't seen Fujitora go close to all out yet. As an Admiral, he likely has a myriad of extremely powerful attacks.


----------



## Tenma (Mar 28, 2015)

> Right, but Doflamingo specifically mentioned taking out Fujitora. He wasn't talking about all the marines on Dressrossa.



But DD knows that if he takes on Fuji, he won't be taking on Fuji alone. As long as they are in Dressrossa, Fuji will always have marine support, and fat chance of getting Fuji with your entire family once he's out.



> -I'm not saying hax can't be factored into overall power, but it's very easy to catch someone off guard with hax. Caesar did the same to Luffy at Punk Hazard.
> -His lack of overall relevance during the war along with Doflamingo easily controlling him, something he has not been shown to be able to do to M3 level fighters or higher.
> -Fair enough.
> -Not true. Cancer and Mozambia didn't cuff Marco. They weren't trusted to escort Ace to Marineford. They weren't given the relevance of the Buster Call Vice Admirals. There's clearly a difference in portrayal despite them being the same "rank".
> -Doflamingo was fighting Law after him and Fujitora had just gotten done laying the Super Nova facedown into a pit. He was extremely exhausted and wounded when he fought Doflamingo, and still managed to slash his face. I consider that impressive.



- Fair enough. But portrayal here puts DD squarely above Jozu, given his casual dominance in the situation, whereas Luffy was portrayed as much stronger than Cesar and lost because he was messing around (which Zoro called him out on later). There's a reason why DD didn't do this kind of shit to Whitebeard or something.
- None of the Commanders except for Marco, Jozu and Ace were remotely relevant in the war. Don't see why Atmos gets singled out for being the weakest here. FFS, all the commanders fired at Akainu and they couldn't scratch him. I believe an M3 level fighter will pose a threat to any top tier standing there making no attempt to guard himself. Also, circular logic. You say DD is not top tier because he controlled a weak commander, while your excuse for saying the commander is weak is that DD controlled him.
- Maynard is more or as relevant than any of the buster call VAs and he is widely regarded as thrash. The buster call VAs are no more relevant or powerful than any other VAs unless you are looking for really weak false hype. There is no tangible difference in portrayal apart from the BC VAs looking more badass because they have yet to fight anyone worth a damn.
- He wasn't that badly injured and IIRC he got to rest on the ship. The slash on the face was like a papercut and of no relevance to the outsome of the fight.



> -The difference is, Zoro was coughing and groaning as he escaped Fujitora's attack, while Fujitora casually avoids his counter attack with no concern whatsoever.
> -With hax. He never actually fought Jozu. I'm not sure what you mean by Doflamingo coming off as a bigger threat.
> -It's certainly possible, but we haven't seen Fujitora go close to all out yet. As an Admiral, he likely has a myriad of extremely powerful attacks.



- Fuji noted the attack was strong and was pushed back, indicating the attack at least exceeded the strength he was putting forth at that time. Sure, he blocked it, but then again Zoro and Fuji use different means of attacking so it isn't a fair comparison. The encounter did little to actually hinder Zoro.
- Doflamingo has flat-out beaten Sanji, Smoker, and Law (twice!) decisively and in most cases with ease, and was largely wiping the floor with Luffy before he got bloodlusted. Fuji has come off as superior to M3 level fighters but he has yet to conclusively prove his power over them like DD has.
- Make no mistake, Fuji would beat Law. But then DD has been doing that time and again. I do believe Ferocious Tiger is one of his top moves though.


----------



## Gohara (Mar 28, 2015)

Luke said:


> I'm not arguing that Doflamingo has strong portrayal. I'm arguing that it's not on par with the portrayal of an Admiral, or by extension a Yonkou first mate.



What makes you say that?



Luke said:


> Prove Doflamingo wasn't trying.



To be fair that can be asked about Fujitora not trying against Zoro and especially against Sabo as well, and really any instance in which someone says an Admiral isn't trying for that matter.



Luke said:


> Doflamingo said the Donquxiote Pirates will have trouble defeating Fujitora



He doesn't say the Donquixote Pirates.  He doesn't specify who in the crew would be fighting Fujitora.  Plus, he just says it won't be easy, not that it will be significantly difficult.



Luke said:


> And he made it clear that he was just buying time.



If we say Fujitora was holding back, then we can just say the same about Sabo who wasn't set on Fujitora being his enemy.



Luke said:


> Being able to stalemate the equivalent to a Yonkou first mate is a superior feat to anything Doflamingo has going for him.



That depends on perspective.  I think besting the second most powerful Yonkou Commander of the Whitebeard Pirates is similarly impressive to fighting on par with the most powerful Yonkou Commander.


----------



## RF (Mar 28, 2015)

Marco wins mid difficulty, maybe a bit more.


----------



## Lawliet (Mar 28, 2015)

Harard said:


> First you implied I said Marco = EOS Zoro and now you're implying I said Doflamingo = EOS Zoro?
> 
> As for the reply, that was me saying Marco should be on the same general level as EOS Zoro, nothing more. Does Zoro being on the same level as Luffy means he's equal to Luffy? What about Fujitora? Does him being on the same general level as Akainu means he's equal to to Akainu? Wouldn't you consider the top supernovas to be on the same general level even though one might be stronger than the other? Though Luffy, Law, Kid, Drake, etc. are most likely one the same level, it doesn't make them equals.
> 
> ...



Bla bla bla. Marco ain't going to be on the same general level as EOS Zoro. You think WB and Marco on the same general level? They are not sky and earth apart, but the strength difference is noticeable and it's huge. I guarantee you EOS Zoro is going to be as strong as prime WB. Marco ain't touching that.


----------



## Ruse (Mar 28, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Bla bla bla. Marco ain't going to be on the same general level as EOS Zoro. You think WB and Marco on the same general level? They are not sky and earth apart, but the strength difference is noticeable and it's huge. *I guarantee you EOS Zoro is going to be as strong as prime WB*. Marco ain't touching that.




You have nothing to back up this claim.


----------



## Harard (Mar 28, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Bla bla bla. Marco ain't going to be on the same general level as EOS Zoro. You think WB and Marco on the same general level? They are not sky and earth apart, but the strength difference is noticeable and it's huge. I guarantee you EOS Zoro is going to be as strong as prime WB. Marco ain't touching that.



Whitebeard was on a level of his own.

And what exactly do you have to back up the claim that EOS Zoro is going to be as strong as Prime Whitebeard?


----------



## Tenma (Mar 28, 2015)

Prime WB is obviosuly a stretch, but he's definitely going to be stronger than Prime Ray.

Which considering how much Ray deteriorated from drinking and not fighting, could well mean he is on the level of Old WB.


----------



## Yuki (Mar 28, 2015)

mykel23 said:


> Doffy being top tier is hilarious. Top tiers get caught by the Law-Luffy switcheroo trick?



Omg you're dumb.

Do you really think people like Jozu or Marco would not get caught by that shit? Really? >_>


----------



## Tenma (Mar 28, 2015)

Jozu and Marco's specialty is getting caught off guard. Lol at them avoiding that shit.


----------



## Lawliet (Mar 28, 2015)

Tenma said:


> Prime WB is obviosuly a stretch, but he's definitely going to be stronger than Prime Ray.
> 
> Which considering how much Ray deteriorated from drinking and not fighting, could well mean he is on the level of Old WB.



If he's definitely stronger than prime Rayleigh then he's as strong as prime WB. Unless you think the gap between prime WB and prime Rayleigh is that huge 

If Prime WB = 100  AND Prime Rayleigh = 90 AND EOS Zoro is DEFINITELY stronger than prime Rayleigh then EOS Zoro = 100 , at least 98 which is as strong as prime WB


----------



## Grimsley (Mar 28, 2015)

Marco mid-low difficulty. he stomps


----------



## Amol (Mar 28, 2015)

Prime Ray = Old WB(without random Heart attacks).
It is laughable to even suggest that there would be two PK level guys in same crew. Especially Zoro reaching to Luffy's dream .


----------



## Lawliet (Mar 28, 2015)

Amol said:


> Prime Ray = Old WB(without random Heart attacks).
> It is laughable to even suggest that there would be two PK level guys in same crew. Especially Zoro reaching to Luffy's dream .



Is it laughable? Is it? This crew is supposed to be the miracle. This crew is supposed to accomplish something even the Rogers' couldn't accomplish, and you think it's laughable to think that the 2nd main character is going to be as strong as prime WB? Why? What if I told you Luffy is surpassing Roger? Is that laughable too?


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 28, 2015)

Zoro is Luffy's Rayleigh. He will surpass Prime Ray EOS.

Law is Luffy's "Killer Giant" He will be left behind in the dust once Luffy exceeds high tier and becomes top tier.

.

Killer Giant was "*known for killing hundreds of pirates and was described as a devil", *and is a clear parallel to Law's "delivering a hundred pirate hearts". He was also a "*man with a large sword", *another parallel to Law.


----------



## Tenma (Mar 28, 2015)

The fuck Luffy isn't killing Law.

They are obviously bros now. I don't think Law will be WB 2.0 but he's still going to have a significant dynamic.

Also filler.


----------



## Luke (Mar 28, 2015)

Tenma, I will respond to your longer post later. For now: 



Gohara said:


> What makes you say that?



The Admirals are being set up as some of the endgame opponents of the series. They are the strongest fighting force of the marines. They were able to fight, and in some cases overpower the strongest members of the strongest crew in the world, including Whitebeard himself. They have been shown, at least in my opinion, as a much more intimidating force than Doflamingo. 



Gohara said:


> To be fair that can be asked about Fujitora not trying against Zoro and especially against Sabo as well, and really any instance in which someone says an Admiral isn't trying for that matter.



Not really. Fujitora has made it clear he's been casual his whole time on Dressrossa to avoid potentially messing up his plan to bring down the Shichibukai system. He flat out told Sabo he was fighting him to buy time. 



Gohara said:


> He doesn't say the Donquixote Pirates.  He doesn't specify who in the crew would be fighting Fujitora.  Plus, he just says it won't be easy, not that it will be significantly difficult.



He was talking to Pica, Diamante, Lao G, and Gladius along with a few others that I'm forgetting which is the bulk of his crew. Despite that though, he is known to heavily overestimate his subordinates. 

Pica was confident he could deal with Zoro, Fujitora, Bastille, and all of Riku's men himself. 



Gohara said:


> If we say Fujitora was holding back, then we can just say the same about Sabo who wasn't set on Fujitora being his enemy.



Sabo was fighting Fujitora to help protect Luffy. Fujitora was fighting to stall. 



Gohara said:


> That depends on perspective.  I think besting the second most powerful Yonkou Commander of the Whitebeard Pirates is similarly impressive to fighting on par with the most powerful Yonkou Commander.



But Doflamingo never bested him in a fight. He just caught him off guard with hax. He didn't even damage Jozu.


----------



## Lawliet (Mar 28, 2015)

Luffy got his WB on his crew, something Roger couldn't do.  Period.


----------



## Gohara (Mar 28, 2015)

Luke said:


> The Admirals are being set up as some of the endgame opponents of the series.



What makes you say that?



Luke said:


> They are the strongest fighting force of the marines.



True, but that doesn't necessarily make them the most powerful individuals in the Marines, and even if so the Marines are only part of the World Government.



Luke said:


> Not really. Fujitora has made it clear he's been casual his whole time on Dressrossa to avoid potentially messing up his plan to bring down the Shichibukai system. He flat out told Sabo he was fighting him to buy time.
> 
> Sabo was fighting Fujitora to help protect Luffy. Fujitora was fighting to stall.



If you mean their conversation in chapter 757, I don't see where he says he's only fighting to buy time.  Also, fighting to buy time can entail going all out.  Sabo expresses that he doesn't know what Fujitora is up to and seems to be trying to figure that out.  Defeating Fujitora may be detrimental if he's their ally, which Sabo is unsure of at the time.  Also, that doesn't say anything about his fight with Zoro.



Luke said:


> They were able to fight, and in some cases overpower the strongest members of the strongest crew in the world, including Whitebeard himself.



The most powerful crew overall, but I would argue likely the least powerful from member to member since the Yonkou crews are relatively even and the Whitebeard Pirates is seemingly by far the biggest crew amongst them.  Also, the only real Admiral who has overpowered them under fair circumstances is pre time skip Akainu, who overpowers Marco at one point if I remember correctly.  That may have been Anime only, though.  I don't remember off the top of my head.  Doflamingo has better portrayal than Jozu anyways.  As for overpowering Whitebeard, I assume you're referring to pre time skip Akainu, but at most I only remember him preventing a blow from Whitebeard aimed at Marine foot soldiers.  I don't remember him overpowering Whitebeard.



Luke said:


> He was talking to Pica, Diamante, Lao G, and Gladius along with a few others that I'm forgetting which is the bulk of his crew. Despite that though, he is known to heavily overestimate his subordinates.



True, but he still doesn't specify who amongst them will fight Fujitora.  I would say Doflamingo more so has been underestimating the Straw Hat Pirates and their allies.



Luke said:


> But Doflamingo never bested him in a fight. He just caught him off guard with hax. He didn't even damage Jozu.



It's not so much Doflamingo catching Jozu, but Jozu being unable to overpower Doflamingo's Strings at the time.


----------



## Extravlad (Mar 29, 2015)

EoS Zoro will be around Old WB lvl.

Stronger than Prime Garp/Rayleigh.


----------



## DanElectro (Mar 29, 2015)

Doflamingo wasn't regenerating.

Marco would win.


----------



## Ryuksgelus (Mar 29, 2015)

Amol said:


> Prime Ray = Old WB(without random Heart attacks).
> It is laughable to even suggest that there would be two PK level guys in same crew. Especially Zoro reaching to Luffy's dream .



Really? Pretty sure the Dark King title comes from the fact he would be a Yonkou if he were not willingly in Roger's shadow.

Seriously the gap between Prime Garp, Ray, WB, and Roger is not that huge. They should all give each other extreme diff fights. Roger&WB would simply win their fights but their own fights dragged on and on without signs of a winner or they both collapsed.

Pretty sure all four are stronger than Old WB. As will EoS Law, Luffy,  Zoro, and Kidd.


----------



## Amol (Mar 29, 2015)

Ryuksgelus said:


> Really? *Pretty sure the Dark King title comes from the fact he would be  a Yonkou if he were not willingly in Roger's shadow.*
> 
> Seriously the gap between Prime Garp, Ray, WB, and Roger is not that huge. They should all give each other extreme diff fights. Roger&WB would simply win their fights but their own fights dragged on and on without signs of a winner or they both collapsed.
> 
> Pretty sure all four are stronger than Old WB. As will EoS Law, Luffy,  Zoro, and Kidd.



Are you trying to tell me that Old WB wasn't a Yonkou (let alone The Strongest Yonkou) ?


----------



## Rob (Mar 29, 2015)

Marco is a level above Doffy, my friend


----------



## trance (Mar 31, 2015)

Marco high diffs. Also, that's not true regeneration. Doffy himself even said so.


----------



## Lawliet (Mar 31, 2015)

Amol said:


> Are you trying to tell me that Old WB wasn't a Yonkou (let alone The Strongest Yonkou) ?



How did you get that from that post? I'm just curious


Roƅ said:


> Marco is a level above Doffy, my friend



No he's not. A level above Doffy is solid admiral level. Marco isn't a solid admiral level.


----------



## Extravlad (Mar 31, 2015)

> No he's not. A level above Doffy is solid admiral level. Marco isn't a solid admiral level.


Marco would mid diff Doffy, Admirals would low diff him.
Doffy is weaker than Vista and Jozu.


----------



## Lawliet (Mar 31, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Marco would mid diff Doffy, Admirals would low diff him.
> Doffy is weaker than Vista and Jozu.



No one is low diffing Doffy, stop that bs. And Vista ain't beating Doffy, not even in his dreams. Jozu? Maybe, and that's  a really big MAYBE. Marco? extreme difficulty , that's if he beats Doffy.

Doffy is a yonkou first mate material, 2nd worst case scenario.  Anyone saying anything other than that is averting their eyes from the truth.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 31, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> No one is low diffing Doffy, stop that bs. And Vista ain't beating Doffy, not even in his dreams. Jozu? Maybe, and that's  a really big MAYBE. Marco? extreme difficulty , that's if he beats Doffy.
> 
> *Doffy is a yonkou first mate material*, 2nd worst case scenario.  Anyone saying anything other than that is averting their eyes from the truth.


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## Extravlad (Mar 31, 2015)

> No one is low diffing Doffy, stop that bs. And Vista ain't beating Doffy, not even in his dreams. Jozu? Maybe, and that's a really big MAYBE. Marco? extreme difficulty , that's if he beats Doffy.


Anyone from the Yonko/C3 could mid diff Doffy.
Vista is beating Doffy, stalemating Mihawk is better than everything Doffy has done so far.

Don't know why you rate Doffy so highly, he's the first antagonist of the new world, nothing special about him really.


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## Biased as Fuck (Mar 31, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


>



I know right Doffy being 1st mate....hahahahhhha.....................................he'd be the fucking YONKO!


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## Jossaff (Mar 31, 2015)

Marco still takes this , but with no lower than High or more difficulty. Doflo is more than capable of being a Yonkou 1st mate

Doflamingo casually used Jozu as his chair , and even broked Aokijis ice without much problem while Jozu got 1 shotted by it , it is well said in the manga that he's the boss of the whole freaking one piece's underworld  ; and in order to take him down its requiring 2 high - high tier fighters , tons of hax and plot armor.

lol at this guys saying Vista beats him , seems like everything that rubs Mihawk dick turns gold.


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## Lawliet (Mar 31, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Anyone from the Yonko/C3 could mid diff Doffy.
> Vista is beating Doffy, stalemating Mihawk is better than everything Doffy has done so far.
> 
> Don't know why you rate Doffy so highly, he's the first antagonist of the new world, nothing special about him really.



You said they'd low diff him. No one is low diffing Doffy.


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## Bohemian Knight (Mar 31, 2015)

Jossaff said:


> Marco still takes this , but with no lower than High or more difficulty. Doflo is more than capable of being a Yonkou 1st mate
> 
> Doflamingo casually used Jozu as his chair , and even broked Aokijis ice without much problem while Jozu got 1 shotted by it , it is well said in the manga that he's the boss of the whole freaking one piece's underworld  ; and in order to take him down its requiring 2 high - high tier fighters , tons of hax and plot armor.
> 
> lol at this guys saying Vista beats him , seems like everything that rubs Mihawk dick turns gold.



Aokiji used different attacks on Jozu and Doflamingo


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## Freechoice (Mar 31, 2015)

Doflamingo Yonkou first mate material

Come on Lawliet


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## Jossaff (Mar 31, 2015)

Bohemian Knight said:


> Aokiji used different attacks on Jozu and Doflamingo



So? , He also used a non-named move to freeze the entire marineford bay ; even Whitebeard didnt named his attacks ; you really believe that Aokiji used a half ass fodder attack to freezy Doflamingo when the life of his friend was on risk  ?


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## Yuki (Mar 31, 2015)

Marco is not mid diffing Doffy.

WB mid diffs Marco, if Marco could mid diff DD who can while at 100% mid diff Law level guys Luffy literally needs two more time skips to ever reach above WB level.


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## GrizzlyClaws (Apr 1, 2015)

Jossaff said:


> Sure , and Doflo didnt gave a single fuck about Aokiji's threat and attacked Smoker anyways , didnt even tried to avoid or defend himself from Aokiji's attack having knowledge about his power



He prolly thought a former Admiral wouldn't dare to lay his hands on a celestial dragon. He hid behind his status. He trusted his lineage, not his strength.


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## Pirao (Apr 1, 2015)

Marco mid diff or so.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 1, 2015)

Marco with extreme difficulty.

And lol people not believing that Doffy is Yonko's 1st mate material, the same dude that told Fuji that tried to start a fight with Fujitora.


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## Lawliet (Apr 1, 2015)

lol said:


> Doflamingo Yonkou first mate material
> 
> Come on Lawliet



Why is it laughable? Doffy already showed he's a monster. Doffy and Sabo are most likely dead equals, and Sabo is not much weaker than a first mate of a yonkou IF weaker at all. 

I always viewed Fujitora to be the strongest on the island with Doffy and Sabo right behind him with a noticeable gap, but not enormous. If Sabo can give Fuji a decent fight, so does Doffy. And if these two can give an admiral a decent fight, you can bet they can give a first mate of a yonkou the fight of their life.


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## Zuhaitz (Apr 1, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Why is it laughable? Doffy already showed he's a monster. Doffy and Sabo are most likely dead equals, and Sabo is not much weaker than a first mate of a yonkou IF weaker at all.
> 
> I always viewed Fujitora to be the strongest on the island with Doffy and Sabo right behind him with a noticeable gap, but not enormous. If Sabo can give Fuji a decent fight, so does Doffy. And if these two can give an admiral a decent fight, you can bet they can give a first mate of a yonkou the fight of their life.



In fact, if Redon's spoilers don't turn to be fake


*Spoiler*: __ 



Doffy is about to face Luffy and Sabo at the same time, making him even stronger than we thought.


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## Yuki (Apr 1, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> In fact, if Redon's spoilers don't turn to be fake
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



It's called April fools. >_>

Inb4 i am wrong.


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