# Sabo is underrated.



## Crow (Apr 14, 2019)

Okay, first off Sabo was the strongest person in Dressrosa. And I'm willing to debate it. He was casually handling Issho/Fujitora, who's an ADMIRAL, and about 50 other Marine fodder at once, and complaining that he wasn't a big enough challenge. He was able to casually destroy the Coliseum a second after getting the Flare-Flare Fruit, and he stomped Burgess in the tournament.  

His Haki is top notch, he was using nearly all of Ace's moves right after getting the fruit, and one-upping him by imbuing his staff with flames. Let's not forget to mention he's Number 2 in the Revolutionary Army, right behind Dragon, who's the most wanted man in the world. He has a higher rank than Kuma before he got turned into a Pacifista, and he's stronger than Ivankov. 
​

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## JoJo (Apr 15, 2019)

luffy > zoro > sabo 

during dressrosa


----------



## convict (Apr 15, 2019)

> He was casually handling Issho/Fujitora



I think you've got the names of the fruit with the top-hat and the blind guy mixed up

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## MYJC (Apr 15, 2019)

LOL @ "casually handling" Fujitora

Doflaminjgo would have beaten Sabo's ass if they fought in Dressrosa. But then again I think Doffy is underrated.


----------



## Djomla (Apr 15, 2019)

Casually handling Fujitora? No. He's good, but not that good.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Amol (Apr 15, 2019)

No Issho was clearly stronger than Sabo and I say that as Chief of Sabo fanclub. 
I mean come on if Sabo was above Admiral level before eating the DF then how strong do you think he would be after he masters his DF? 
His potential is not bigger than that off Luffy mate. 
But to address your overall point. Yes Sabo is very underrated on this forum. He is also irrationaly hated on this forum too. OL is weird in that way. 
In Dressrosa it was Issho > Sabo > DD > Luffy > Law/Zoro.


----------



## Ruse (Apr 15, 2019)

Casually handled Fujitora? 


To be fair I don’t think Sabo is underrated it’s just we haven’t seen him do anything since Dressrosa so you know...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## CaptainCommander (Apr 15, 2019)

Other than using "casual" to describe fugitora & being the strongest in Dress, you are right on all his feats.

Still doesn't make him top tier, yet.


----------



## Sayonara (Apr 15, 2019)

After consumption of mera mera I would put him at Luffy current level, would not be surprised if hes above or below.
I think the Ace underestimation is worse but that I can sort of understand that one, Oda did not want to reveal to much detail about haki at that time and Ace was a victim of that.


----------



## Quipchaque (Apr 15, 2019)

Oh boy Crow you have angered the admiral fans for telling the truth lol.


----------



## Beast (Apr 15, 2019)

sabo is alright, better than Ace.


----------



## Dunno (Apr 15, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Oh boy Crow you have angered the admiral fans for telling the truth lol.


----------



## Flame (Apr 15, 2019)

Casually handling Fuji? dafuq? Dude was bruised up after fighting Burgess.


----------



## MO (Apr 15, 2019)

Luffy>sabo


----------



## Conxc (Apr 15, 2019)

Fuji was playing with him...


----------



## Steven (Apr 15, 2019)

Fuji was holding back

Sabo is not even First Mate Level,let alone Admiral Level


----------



## Corax (Apr 15, 2019)

He isn't underrated. Most think that he is first mate lvl. And for him it is and adequate position (as right hand of Rev. army commander). Sure in the next arcs he might surpass this lvl.,but for now he has no feats for that.


----------



## Fel1x (Apr 15, 2019)

Mero Sabo is admiral level for sure, especially now.

In Dressrosa: Fujitora=>Sabo>>Luffy

now: Fujitora=Sabo>Luffy. but current gap between Sabo and Luffy is small. extreme fight for Sabo


----------



## Conxc (Apr 15, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> Mero Sabo is admiral level for sure, especially now.
> 
> In Dressrosa: Fujitora=>Sabo>>Luffy
> 
> now: Fujitora=Sabo>Luffy. but current gap between Sabo and Luffy is small. extreme fight for Sabo


----------



## CaptainCommander (Apr 15, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> Mero Sabo is admiral level for sure, especially now.
> 
> In Dressrosa: Fujitora=>Sabo>>Luffy
> 
> now: Fujitora=Sabo>Luffy. but current gap between Sabo and Luffy is small. extreme fight for Sabo



Nah, its already Wano/Rev time. Both Sabo and Luffy should be =>Fugitora now.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Conxc (Apr 15, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> Nah, its already Wano/Rev time. Both Sabo and Luffy should be =>Fugitora now.


You don’t really think that.


----------



## Luke (Apr 15, 2019)

I don't know about that. Like others have said, a lot of people seem to view him as being around the level of a Yonkou First Mate, which seems about right to me. He's probably a little stronger than that at this point, but yeah.


----------



## Steven (Apr 16, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> Mero Sabo is admiral level for sure, especially now.
> 
> In Dressrosa: Fujitora=>Sabo>>Luffy
> 
> now: Fujitora=Sabo>Luffy. but current gap between Sabo and Luffy is small. extreme fight for Sabo


Yeah no


----------



## Flame (Apr 16, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> Mero Sabo is admiral level for sure, especially now.
> 
> In Dressrosa: Fujitora=>Sabo>>Luffy
> 
> now: Fujitora=Sabo>Luffy. but current gap between Sabo and Luffy is small. extreme fight for Sabo


Sabo was never admiral level lol



CaptainCommander said:


> Nah, its already Wano/Rev time. Both Sabo and Luffy should be =>Fugitora now.


Nah both Sabo and Luffy should be >>>>>>>> Fujitora. Hell, Kaido should be low diff for current Luffy.


----------



## ImpalerDragon (Apr 16, 2019)

That is what i was thinking too. Sabo casually faced Fujitora with backup. He defeated Bastille easily while Fujitora was watching and did not had the courage to interfere to save his subordinate.

Then we have a serious Fujitora dropping meteors and using gravity versus Sabo who is just trying to delay the admiral. Sabo i superior from what he has shown.His haki seem to be also on a different level. Fujitora is not defeating him.


----------



## Crow (Apr 16, 2019)

ImpalerDragon said:


> That is what i was thinking too. Sabo casually faced Fujitora with backup. He defeated Bastille easily while Fujitora was watching and did not had the courage to interfere to save his subordinate.
> 
> Then we have a serious Fujitora dropping meteors and using gravity versus Sabo who is just trying to delay the admiral. Sabo is superior from what he has shown.His haki seem to be also on a different level. Fujitora is not defeating him.



Thank you. His haki is powerful and dragon's claw is deadly. Along with Mera Mera no Mi he's strong af.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Jin san (Apr 16, 2019)

Sabo is easily katakuri/Marco level


----------



## CaptainCommander (Apr 16, 2019)

La Flame said:


> Sabo was never admiral level lol
> 
> 
> Nah *both Sabo and Luffy should be >>>>>>>> Fujitora. Hell, Kaido should be low diff for current Luffy.*



Two questions

1. What are you on?

2. Are you selling it?


----------



## shaantu (Apr 16, 2019)

I wouldn't call Sabo to be admiral level, but imo he's definitely FM level with Mera fruit, maybe a bit stronger if he trained and got used to it 
guess we need to wait for the Reverie fight results


----------



## Imagine (Apr 16, 2019)

He's not Admiral level (yet) but he's definitely on par with G4 Luffy/Katakuri/Marco/Jozu/Vista/All Stars ect.

Sabo will get his time and so will the other revos.


----------



## Conxc (Apr 16, 2019)

Imagine thinking Sabo is stronger than Fujitora...Holy shit.


----------



## Steven (Apr 16, 2019)

Conxc said:


> Imagine thinking Sabo is stronger than Fujitora...Holy shit.


Sabo is the new WSM

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Crow (Apr 16, 2019)

Conxc said:


> Imagine thinking Sabo is stronger than Fujitora...Holy shit.



What makes you so sure? As I said, Sabo was fighting Issho and his backups with little to no problem, and the backups included vice-admirals. Issho wasn't fighting his hardest but neither was Sabo.


----------



## Steven (Apr 16, 2019)

Crow said:


> What makes you so sure? As I said, Sabo was fighting Issho and his backups with little to no problem, and the backups included vice-admirals. Issho wasn't fighting his hardest but neither was Sabo.


You cant scale Sabo to a casual Admiral


----------



## Crow (Apr 16, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> You cant scale Sabo to a casual Admiral



You can't scale Issho to a casual Sabo. They both weren't trying their hardest, but Sabo's feats shined brighter because he was going against reinforcements as well. Even when Admiral's are casual they are still extremely strong, and I didn't get that same feeling from him like I got from the old Admiral's when they were casual.


----------



## Steven (Apr 16, 2019)

Crow said:


> You can't scale Issho to a casual Sabo. They both weren't trying their hardest, but Sabo's feats shined brighter because he was going against reinforcements as well. Even when Admiral's are casual they are still extremely strong, and I didn't get that same feeling from him like I got from the old Admiral's when they were casual.


Because the C3>Fuji


----------



## Conxc (Apr 16, 2019)

Crow said:


> What makes you so sure? As I said, Sabo was fighting Issho and his backups with little to no problem, and the backups included vice-admirals. Issho wasn't fighting his hardest but neither was Sabo.


Fuji wasn’t even trying. Even Sabo acknowledged that IIRC. Also, Fuji left that “fight” unscathed while Sabo had injuries, although minor. That doesn’t translate to “little to no problems.” Maybe in Fuji’s Case, but not Sabo. Either way, it was painfully clear who was superior out of the two. Also, i’d Like to know who these other VA’s were. To my recollection, the only VA that was there was Maynard? As for the marine fodder, anyone that doesn’t have Haki is a non-factor as Sabo is a Logia. It’s fraudulent to use them to make him look good.


----------



## Flame (Apr 16, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> Two questions
> 
> 1. What are you on?
> 
> 2. Are you selling it?


Idk you tell me


CaptainCommander said:


> Nah, its already Wano/Rev time. *Both Sabo and Luffy should be =>Fugitora now*.


----------



## trance (Apr 16, 2019)

no one ive seen rates him any lower than second mate level but most rate him about as strong as an average first mate


----------



## Gervin (Apr 16, 2019)

Conxc said:


> Also, i’d Like to know who these other VA’s were. To my recollection, the only VA that was there was Maynard? As for the marine fodder, anyone that doesn’t have Haki is a non-factor as Sabo is a Logia. It’s fraudulent to use them to make him look good.


Bastille was there, and he was steamrolled in a few panels and had no impact on the fight whatsoever. Fujitora had absolutely no meaningful backup in this fight.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Conxc (Apr 16, 2019)

Rakuyo said:


> no one ive seen rates him any lower than second mate level but most rate him about as strong as an average first mate


First mate is good considering where people think Dragon is on the spectrum.



Gervin said:


> Bastille was there, and he was steamrolled in a few panels and had no impact on the fight whatsoever. Fujitora had absolutely no meaningful backup in this fight.


Forgot all about Bastille, but you’re right. Either way, it was essentially a 1v1 and Fuji was just outright stronger.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Apr 16, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> Mero Sabo is admiral level for sure, especially now.
> 
> In Dressrosa: Fujitora=>Sabo>>Luffy
> 
> now: Fujitora=Sabo>Luffy.





CaptainCommander said:


> Nah, its already Wano/Rev time. Both Sabo and Luffy should be =>Fugitora now.





ImpalerDragon said:


> That is what i was thinking too. Sabo casually faced Fujitora with backup. He defeated Bastille easily while Fujitora was watching and did not had the courage to interfere to save his subordinate.
> 
> Then we have a serious Fujitora dropping meteors and using gravity versus Sabo who is just trying to delay the admiral. Sabo i superior from what he has shown.His haki seem to be also on a different level. Fujitora is not defeating him.



OT: lolno, alongside the leader of the Jedi Council, Master "Haki God" Shanksu, Sabo is one of the most overrated characters in the entire series. Also, Fujitora > the Ace wannabe.


----------



## Fel1x (Apr 16, 2019)

Daisuke Jigen said:


> OT: lolno, alongside the leader of the Jedi Council, Master "Haki God" Shanksu, Sabo is one of the most overrated characters in the entire series. Also, Fujitora > the Ace wannabe.


Sabo is not even in anybody's top 10 list. how is he overrated? by 3 messages?
why do you think Oda made Sabo fight admirals 2 times (DR, Reverie)? because he is below them in strength? 2nd person in Rev army should be atleast admiral level. While Dragon should be = FA Akainu


----------



## Conxc (Apr 16, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> Sabo is not even in anybody's top 10 list. how is he overrated? by 3 messages?
> why do you think Oda made Sabo fight admirals 2 times (DR, Reverie)? because he is below them in strength? 2nd person in Rev army should be atleast admiral level. While Dragon should be = FA Akainu


He’s in nobody’s top 10 because he doesn’t belong there...that doesn’t make him underrated if it’s true. You and the OP are overrating him right now, however. The feats just don’t show it and you guys are performing all kinds of mental gymnastics to honestly believe Sabo came out on top of his and Fuji’s exchange.


----------



## CaptainCommander (Apr 16, 2019)

La Flame said:


> Idk you tell me



Remind me what epic moments were there when Fugi stomped . . .  Nah, when he even fought a FM??


----------



## Conxc (Apr 16, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> Remind me what epic moments were there when Fugi stomped . . .  Nah, when he even fought a FM??


He doesn’t have to do so to prove himself...he’s a top tier by title.


----------



## g4snake108 (Apr 16, 2019)

Sabo would've been the second strongest person on dressrosa-behind fujitora. With his fruit mastery, he does/should go up to admiral level, but no way was he over fujitora during dressrosa-both were pretty casual since both of them only had to stall each other for plot.


----------



## Flame (Apr 17, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> Remind me what epic moments were there when Fugi stomped . . .  Nah, when he even fought a FM??


Lmao imagine downplaying the title of Admiral  

Unlike the title 'Yonko', admiral position is given only to the strongest of the marines. As @Conxc already said, his title is top tier already.


----------



## CaptainCommander (Apr 17, 2019)

Conxc said:


> He doesn’t have to do so to prove himself...he’s a top tier by title.





La Flame said:


> Lmao imagine downplaying the title of Admiral
> 
> Unlike the title 'Yonko', admiral position is given only to the strongest of the marines. As @Conxc already said, his title is top tier already.



Thank you both for making Admiral fans look like idiots with the worst argument possible:

[HASHTAG]#AdmiralsaretoptierbecauseAdmiralsaretoptier[/HASHTAG]
[HASHTAG][/HASHTAG]
[HASHTAG]#Feats?Whatfeats?[/HASHTAG]
[HASHTAG]#Nodiscussion[/HASHTAG]
[HASHTAG][/HASHTAG]


----------



## Flame (Apr 17, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> Thank you both for making Admiral fans look like idiots with the worst argument possible:
> 
> [HASHTAG]#AdmiralsaretoptierbecauseAdmiralsaretoptier[/HASHTAG]
> 
> ...


What does being an admiral fan have anything to do with this debate?   

Let's look at feats. Sabo was huffing and puffing against a *casual *Fujitora. He was all bruised up while Fuji remained untouched. He then used his gravity attack on him and Sabo himself was happy he could get him to at least be _this _serious - meaning Sabo himself knows he's no match. Then we find out Fuji was never serious on fighting him lmao. Yet you claim he's = Fujitora which is complete bullshit and even wanking.






Please explain how in any of these panels Sabo is shown equal to Fuji


----------



## Sayonara (Apr 17, 2019)

La Flame said:


>


Pretty sure its Fujitora saying that. Even then I wouldn't flip this around to support Sabo because there is really nothing in this comment.

The panting and bruising is enough to imply Sabo was having a harder time than Fujitora. Also worth pointing out that birdcage as shown prevented Fuji from using his meteor attacks in this fight.

I agree with you that nothing from this little skirmish is enough to suggest Sabo being stronger or equal to the admiral. But we should note that it may not necessarily mean that it will always remain that way, Sabo only just literally received a serious powerup which Oda clearly wanted to make a point of with Sabos  "I’m not quite used to this ability yet.." comment. His demonstration against Jesus, his position in RA(direct training from Dragon) and his relationship with Luffy/Ace already put him in good standing , so for him to then get powerup at this stage shows he still has serious growth potential.


----------



## Flame (Apr 17, 2019)

Sayonara said:


> Pretty sure its Fujitora saying that. Even then I wouldn't flip this around to support Sabo because there is really nothing in this comment.
> 
> The panting and bruising is enough to imply Sabo was having a harder time than Fujitora. Also worth pointing out that birdcage as shown prevented Fuji from using his meteor attacks in this fight.
> 
> I agree with you that nothing from this little skirmish is enough to suggest Sabo being stronger or equal to the admiral. But we should note that it may not necessarily mean that it will always remain that way, Sabo only just literally received a serious powerup which Oda clearly wanted to make a point of with Sabos  "I’m not quite used to this ability yet.." comment.


Nah it's a continuation to the other text bubble, meaning Sabo said that. The anime also has only Sabo talking while Fuji remains quiet.

Hey i'm all for it. There was a thread about who we think is gonna take down Akainu and I voted for Sabo. I also think he's gonna get stronger - considering he got a new DF and all. But there's a difference between now and the future. For now he hasn't shown he's admiral level.


----------



## CaptainCommander (Apr 17, 2019)

Flame said:


> What does being an admiral fan have anything to do with this debate?
> 
> Let's look at feats. Sabo was huffing and puffing against a *casual *Fujitora. He was all bruised up while Fuji remained untouched. He then used his gravity attack on him and Sabo himself was happy he could get him to at least be _this _serious - meaning Sabo himself knows he's no match. Then we find out Fuji was never serious on fighting him lmao. Yet you claim he's = Fujitora which is complete bullshit and even wanking.
> 
> ...



Nice try adding some feats but you missed the original point of Fugi being scaled to FMs. Dressrosa!Sabo's powers are still immature so if he's going at it with him then (Even if he's a bit weaker) then that just strengthens his case for current.


----------



## Gianfi (Apr 18, 2019)

I think he is FM Level, and By EoS he should be at least Admiral Level. I like to think he will be the one to face EoS Akainu and to avenge Ace, while Luffy will fight BB, but who knows


----------



## Corax (Apr 18, 2019)

His growth rate depends also on Dragon's fate.Will he be killed (by Im or Akainu/Gorosei) or not. It is possible that Sabo might take his place. And this means a lot for EOS.


----------



## Fel1x (Apr 21, 2019)

Corax said:


> His growth rate depends also on Dragon's fate.Will he be killed (by Im or Akainu/Gorosei) or not. It is possible that Sabo might take his place. And this means a lot for EOS.


Sabo's chances of dying are low. because Sabo dying just like Ace is a shitty MF remake. Sabo might be an important figure (political) of after EoS new world


----------



## Dellinger (Apr 21, 2019)

Sabo taking down Akainu doesn't even make sense. The Revs main enemies are CP0 and the celestial dragons. Akainu is a marine who hates Luffy and Luffy hates Akainu too.

If anything Sabo is overrated with the crap you guys post in this thread.


----------



## Beast (Apr 22, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Sabo taking down Akainu doesn't even make sense. The Revs main enemies are CP0 and the celestial dragons. Akainu is a marine who hates Luffy and Luffy hates Akainu too.


It’s makes about the same sense as Luffy going to beat him tbh.


----------



## Gledania (Apr 24, 2019)

FM level for me.

He defeated a yonko commander easily.

I think only a top 3 YC can do it.


----------



## cry77 (Apr 24, 2019)

Gledania said:


> FM level for me.
> 
> He defeated a yonko commander easily.
> 
> I think only a top 3 YC can do it.


Burgess doesnt seem to be a top 3 YC though. Probably Dressorsa Burgess is around Oven/Daifuku level.


----------



## Onyx Emperor (Apr 25, 2019)

Crow said:


> Okay, first off Sabo was the strongest person in Dressrosa.


Did you forget about Fujitora or you think that any of these scrubs in DR are admiral level?


----------



## Onyx Emperor (Apr 25, 2019)

Crow said:


> And I'm willing to debate it. He was casually handling Issho/Fujitora


Ok nvm, this is already a sign of retardation, let's compare...
Sabo after the fight: 
Fujitora after the fight:
I don't see any injuries on Fujitora's face when Sabo has them.
And sabo says this:
Basically a "playing dumb" fujitora flawlessly gives sabo's face some nice punch marks.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Kroczilla (Apr 25, 2019)

sabo is clearly FM level given the ease at which he stomped Burgess and the fact that he got an admiral to fight (somewhat) seriously with an unmastered DF. That said he clearly still has room for growth. I expect admiral tier sabo by EOS.


----------



## Gledania (Apr 25, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> sabo is clearly FM level given the ease at which he stomped Burgess and the fact that he got an admiral to fight (somewhat) seriously with an unmastered DF. That said he clearly still has room for growth. I expect admiral tier sabo by EOS.




The damage control in the OL if he defeat aka inu


----------



## Kroczilla (Apr 25, 2019)

Gledania said:


> The damage control in the OL if he defeat aka inu


----------



## Crow (Apr 25, 2019)

The Overvoid said:


> Ok nvm, this is already a sign of retardation, let's compare...
> Sabo after the fight:
> Fujitora after the fight:
> I don't see any injuries on Fujitora's face when Sabo has them.
> ...



You forgetting that Sabo wasn't just fighting Fujitora he was fighting Vice Admirals and other marines too. He also had just finished fighting Burgess. Fujitora was fighting just Sabo, so of course he has the advantage just off that. But Sabo still was beating Fujitora's underlings and still fighting Fujitora. And newbie you don't have the right to call anyone retarded on this forum. You're a baby.


----------



## Gledania (Apr 25, 2019)

Crow said:


> You forgetting that Sabo wasn't just fighting Fujitora he was fighting Vice Admirals and other marines too. He also had just finished fighting Burgess. Fujitora was fighting just Sabo, so of course he has the advantage just off that. But Sabo still was beating Fujitora's underlings and still fighting Fujitora. And newbie you don't have the right to call anyone retarded on this forum. You're a baby.


----------



## Conxc (Apr 25, 2019)




----------



## Gledania (Apr 25, 2019)

Conxc said:


>


----------



## Conxc (Apr 25, 2019)

Gledania said:


>


This thread is giving me a headache.


----------



## Furinji Saiga (Apr 27, 2019)

Hes not underrated at all... 

If anything hes overrated because most of the people here put him on even footing or above Luffy who is top commander level only based on hype. 

I just ignore the clowns who put him close to or on par with a top tiers like the Admirals.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Gledania (Apr 27, 2019)

Furinji Saiga said:


> If anything hes overrated because most of the people here put him on even footing or above Luffy who is top commander level only based on hype.



He toyed with a yonko commander without taking a scratch. He  one shoted a VA with his fingers.

How is it overrating him to say he's FM level ?


----------



## Furinji Saiga (Apr 27, 2019)

Gledania said:


> He toyed with a yonko commander without taking a scratch. He  one shoted a VA with his fingers.
> 
> How is it overrating him to say he's FM level ?




Okay and?
Blackbeard Pirates are growing, and is Burgess the strongest YC  in that crew?
We have seen massive disparity among YC...
One shotting VA now makes one an FM????  I guess its time to add 4 or 5 people now to the FM hype list.  
So thats hype people accept 

And thats my point, Luffy proved himself with hype( massive bounty ) and feats( defeating two top YC) that he is top YC.
Sabo is being given the benefit of the doubt if not higher based on nothing but false hype.

Hence hes overrated in my eyes.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## NooksBrigade (Apr 27, 2019)

To even be FM level Sabo would have to be capable of handling all of G4's forms.

Katakuri beat Boundman rather easily and he was still out-matching Snakeman. Can Sabo do the same? Does Sabo have advanced CoO and CoA?

Only reason Sabo is considered Admiral level is because of his skirmish with Fujitora (both times), and because he's the #2 of the revolutionary army.  But just take a look at the top 4 Rev.Commanders; are they also near Admiral level? No.

At most we only have 1 top tier per faction - excluding the marines. Meaning Dragon is that top tier and Sabo is top YC level.

*The biggest evidence that Sabo is not Admiral level was given to us in Dessrossa itself. *

Sabo got a power up - a fire logia. Meaning that before getting the mera-mera Sabo was a whole rank below his current level (Reveri Arc Sabo). What's below top YC level? X-Drake, Perospero, and Snack. Or somewhere around pre-timeskip Ace's level; whom was also able to survive a skirmish with Aokiji.

Sabo getting the mera-mera makes it very relevant to the overall story. Sabo got his brother's fruit and was simultaneously able to surpass his strength - a passing of the torch. 

Luffy however surpassed Ace the moment he got G4 - meaning Luffy was by leaps and bounds the 2nd strongest person in Dessrossa; with Doflamingo and pre mera-mera Sabo a whole rank beneath him.


----------



## Corax (Apr 28, 2019)

The Overvoid said:


> Ok nvm, this is already a sign of retardation, let's compare...
> Sabo after the fight:
> Fujitora after the fight:
> I don't see any injuries on Fujitora's face when Sabo has them.
> ...


Also he was scared by meteor drop. And we know that this isn't even strongest Fujitora's attack.


----------



## Quipchaque (Apr 28, 2019)

The Overvoid said:


> Ok nvm, this is already a sign of retardation, let's compare...
> Sabo after the fight:
> Fujitora after the fight:
> I don't see any injuries on Fujitora's face when Sabo has them.
> ...



That is actually a good point.... My word an admiral fan who actually makes good arguments for once, never thought I would see the day.


----------



## Flame (Apr 28, 2019)

Gledania said:


> He toyed with a yonko commander without taking a scratch. He  one shoted a VA with his fingers.
> 
> How is it overrating him to say he's FM level ?


Uhm, actually no. He was bruised up a bit after his fight with Burgess. He also admitted he had his hands full with him. Sure he's stronger but Burgess was still able to put up a fight.


----------



## Fel1x (Apr 28, 2019)

Furinji Saiga said:


> Hes not underrated at all...
> 
> If anything hes overrated because most of the people here put him on even footing or above Luffy who is top commander level only based on hype.
> 
> I just ignore the clowns who put him close to or on par with a top tiers like the Admirals.


DR: clear Sabo > Luffy
WCI: Luffy became ~ FM level. Sabo pretty sure already mastered his DF. Which alone might put him tier above his DR version
Wano: Luffy is solid FM level now. Sabo and co fighting admirals (result unknown)

Sabo is a prodigy just like Ace and Luffy. Why would he lose a strength race with Luffy when he was much stronger when they met in DR? Revs don't stay still


----------



## Dellinger (Apr 28, 2019)

Again why would Luffy be weaker than Sabo in Dressrosa ?


----------



## Fel1x (Apr 28, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Again why would Luffy be weaker than Sabo in Dressrosa ?


by Oda's writing overall. But if you want some clear reasons, check the effect of Fujitora's gravity on Sabo and on Luffy. Gravity pushed Luffy to the ground, while Sabo was pretty much ok under gravity


----------



## Steven (Apr 28, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> by Oda's writing overall. But if you want some clear reasons, check the effect of Fujitora's gravity on Sabo and on Luffy. Gravity pushed Luffy to the ground, while Sabo was pretty much ok under gravity


G4 was crystal clear>Sabo.

Feats and portrayal speaks for him

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## CaptainCommander (Apr 28, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> by Oda's writing overall. But if you want some clear reasons, check the effect of Fujitora's gravity on Sabo and on Luffy. Gravity pushed Luffy to the ground, while Sabo was pretty much ok under gravity


 
Luffy didn't bother with Gear 4 against Fugi.


----------



## Dellinger (Apr 28, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> by Oda's writing overall. But if you want some clear reasons, check the effect of Fujitora's gravity on Sabo and on Luffy. Gravity pushed Luffy to the ground, while Sabo was pretty much ok under gravity



What writing ? We aren't pre skip. We are at the point where we face the Yonko. We only saw Fujitora using one attack on Sabo which would send the fuck out of him flying if he couldn't propel himself with the mera fruit. Then Fujitora easily blocks Sabo's mera kick and after that we see Sabo full of bruises against a Fujitora that basically admitted to be trolling around in order to make it seem that he's busy. Maynard was clear, it didn't make sense for Sabo to stall Fujitora.


----------



## TheWiggian (Apr 28, 2019)

He's overrated as fuck just because he is Luffy's brotha


----------



## Quipchaque (Apr 29, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> G4 was crystal clear>Sabo.
> 
> Feats and portrayal speaks for him



That is not a fair way to judge his strength compared to Luffy. Luffy got a full fight to display all of his abilities. Sabo did not.


----------



## Steven (Apr 29, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> That is not a fair way to judge his strength compared to Luffy. Luffy got a full fight to display all of his abilities. Sabo did not.


Exactly.Sabos best feats are:

Stomping Burgess and fighting against a casual Admiral


----------



## Dunno (Apr 29, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Exactly.Sabos best feats are:
> 
> Stomping Burgess and fighting against a casual Admiral


Which means that his feats aren't worse than Luffy's.


----------



## Quipchaque (Apr 29, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Exactly.Sabos best feats are:
> 
> Stomping Burgess and fighting against a casual Admiral



Let's not exaggerate. Fujitora used attacks like ferocious tiger and tried throwing meteors on top of Sabo but it didn't have any effect at all. So even with a more serious approach he wasn't portrayed as much stronger. Don't try to undersell Sabo's performance against Fuji.

Anyway you are missing the point. It is impossible to say how strong Sabo is at the moment. He could rank anywhere from about as strong as Zoro to slightly weaker than Fujitora. What you are doing is no different than ranking Zoro based on his first battle against Kaku in Water 7 which turned out to be completely irrelevant.


----------



## Steven (Apr 29, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Let's not exaggerate. Fujitora used attacks like ferocious tiger and tried throwing meteors on top of Sabo but it didn't have any effect at all. So even with a more serious approach he wasn't portrayed as much stronger. Don't try to undersell Sabo's performance against Fuji.
> 
> Anyway you are missing the point. It is impossible to say how strong Sabo is at the moment. He could rank anywhere from about as strong as Zoro to slightly weaker than Fujitora.


Tbf,Fuji´s Meteors are trash

Sabo is not stronger than FM´s.NOTHING speaks for it but his performance in DR>Zorro.

Sabo is around YC3 Level aka on par with Doffy


----------



## Quipchaque (Apr 29, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Tbf,Fuji´s Meteors are trash
> 
> Sabo is not stronger than FM´s.NOTHING speaks for it but his performance in DR>Zorro.
> 
> Sabo is around YC3 Level aka on par with Doffy



You are still missing the point. Nothing speaks for that but there is also nothing that speaks against him being stronger than what you believe. Are we also going to pretend that Beckman is weaker than Arlong because his best feat so far is beating up fodder?


----------



## Steven (Apr 29, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> You are still missing the point. Nothing speaks for that but there is also nothing that speaks against him being stronger than what you believe. Are we also going to pretend that Beckman is weaker than Arlong because his best feat so far is beating up fodder?


Beckman=FM

I dont need feats for Beckman.His portrayal alone is enough.


----------



## Steven (Apr 29, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Which means that his feats aren't worse than Luffy's.


----------



## Dunno (Apr 29, 2019)

Acnologia said:


>


Yes, and that is not a better feat than stomping Burgess or fighting Fujitora. Sabo's feats have way higher of a roof than Luffy's does. They place him below Admiral level, but that's about it. Luffy's on the other hand places him below Doflamingo level, which really isn't that great. And if we're talking DC, that feat of Luffy's places him well below Law and Zoro, which also isn't really that great.


----------



## Steven (Apr 29, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Yes, and that is not a better feat than stomping Burgess or fighting Fujitora. Sabo's feats have way higher of a roof than Luffy's does. They place him below Admiral level, but that's about it. Luffy's on the other hand places him below Doflamingo level, which really isn't that great. And if we're talking DC, that feat of Luffy's places him well below Law and Zoro, which also isn't really that great.


What fucking DC has Law?


----------



## Dunno (Apr 29, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> What fucking DC has Law?


I don't know. Maybe cutting a literal mountain in half, and throwing said mountain fifty metres or so into the air?


----------



## Steven (Apr 30, 2019)

Dunno said:


> I don't know. Maybe cutting a literal mountain in half, and throwing said mountain fifty metres or so into the air?


Thats Hax.

Its not a DC feat


----------



## Quipchaque (Apr 30, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Beckman=FM
> 
> I dont need feats for Beckman.His portrayal alone is enough.



So you choose to use feats-only to discredit certain characters and then use portrayal to hype others?? A rather inconsistent and flawed logic. By the way you judge characters Beckman is only fodder level. Do you agree with that or not?


----------



## Dunno (Apr 30, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Thats Hax.
> 
> Its not a DC feat


It's just as much a DC feat as KKG. DC is DC, no matter if the source is a physical attack or a DF. Whitebeard tilting MF is DC, Aokiji freezing an ocean is DC and Fujitora throwing around half an island is DC.


----------



## Steven (Apr 30, 2019)

Dunno said:


> It's just as much a DC feat as KKG. DC is DC, no matter if the source is a physical attack or a DF. Whitebeard tilting MF is DC, Aokiji freezing an ocean is DC and Fujitora throwing around half an island is DC.


Law´s fruit is Spatial Hax and ignores Dura.WB,Aokiji and Fuji,neither of them are used Hax

That dont count as DC.Spatial Hax will NEVER count as DC because you dont need to dish out a certain amount of Strength


----------



## Dunno (Apr 30, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Law´s fruit is Spatial Hax and ignores Dura.WB,Aokiji and Fuji,neither of them are used Hax
> 
> That dont count as DC.Spatial Hax will NEVER count as DC because you dont need to dish out a certain amount of Strength


You need to dish out a certain level of hax. Pre-TS Law couldn't make a room that bug, and thus couldn't achieve that level of DC. If you get stronger, you can do bigger stuff with the Ope Ope, just like with any other DF.


----------



## Quipchaque (Apr 30, 2019)

@Acnologia

So is Beckman fodder level by feats or not? Give me a clear yes or no.


----------



## Steven (Apr 30, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> @Acnologia
> 
> So is Beckman fodder level by feats or not? Give me a clear yes or no.


No,for what reason he should?

Ben is FM


----------



## Quipchaque (May 1, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> No,for what reason he should?
> 
> Ben is FM



Because his feats say so. You just said "Sabo's best feats are x and y so he is weaker than Luffy". And as we can see from the Beckman example feats can be deceiving. So what makes Luffy stronger than Sabo other than speculation?


----------



## Steven (May 1, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Because his feats say so. You just said "Sabo's best feats are x and y so he is weaker than Luffy". And as we can see from the Beckman example feats can be deceiving. So what makes Luffy stronger than Sabo other than speculation?


Sabo has not the same portrayal as Ben.

Thats a fact


----------



## Fel1x (May 1, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> No,for what reason he should?
> 
> Ben is FM


Sabo is some kind of FM too


----------



## Quipchaque (May 2, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Sabo has not the same portrayal as Ben.
> 
> Thats a fact



Yeah agree on that one but you didn't answer my question. Two short skirmishes don't determine someone's strength. That is also a fact.


----------



## Steven (May 2, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Yeah agree on that one but you didn't answer my question. Two short skirmishes don't determine someone's strength. That is also a fact.


So,Marco vs Admirals is not enough proof for Ben?

Ben is ~Marco


----------



## Quipchaque (May 2, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> So,Marco vs Admirals is not enough proof for Ben?
> 
> Ben is ~Marco



...


----------



## Dellinger (May 2, 2019)

Luffy will beat a Yonko by himself in the upcoming arcs and some guys here will still say that Sabo is stronger because he is his older brother.

Like what the fuck


----------



## Magentabeard (May 5, 2019)

Luffy = Fujitora who could beat Sabo very high difficulty right now

Back in Dressrosa, Fujitora high diffs Sabo who very high diffs Luffy


----------



## Jackteo (Jun 16, 2019)

Sabo is probably the most overrated character after Zoro. He is strong of course but he can't be YC1 or so just after having unlocked a new power. I think at the end of DR he was comparable to Cracker at most


----------



## Quipchaque (Jun 16, 2019)

Jackteo said:


> Sabo is probably the most overrated character after Zoro. He is strong of course but he can't be YC1 or so just after having unlocked a new power. I think at the end of DR he was comparable to Cracker at most



Sabo can't be overrated as long as he didn't even show us his upper limit. All we know is that he is very good at armament haki and capable of fighting Fujitora seemingly as a nigh-equal.


----------



## Dellinger (Jun 16, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Sabo can't be overrated as long as he didn't even show us his upper limit. All we know is that he is very good at armament haki and capable of fighting Fujitora seemingly as a nigh-equal.



You don't fight someone as a nigh-equal when that someone tries to make himself get stalled for time. Fujitora wasn't fighting seriously,you know that

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Quipchaque (Jun 16, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> You don't fight someone as a nigh-equal when that someone tries to make himself get stalled for time. Fujitora wasn't fighting seriously,you know that



That is objectively wrong. Fujitora spammed his devil fruit like crazy and used named attacks. Also that same argument applies to Sabo. His fighting style is about his powerful armament haki and dragon claw attacks. He used neither nor did we see much else of him that tells us where exactly he stands.


----------



## Dellinger (Jun 16, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> That is objectively wrong. Fujitora spammed his devil fruit like crazy and used named attacks. Also that same argument applies to Sabo. His fighting style is about his powerful armament haki and dragon claw attacks. He used neither nor did we see much else of him that tells us where exactly he stands.



So throwing a couple of meteors and using moko is Fujitora spamming his devil fruit ? Also what kind of logic is that ? Fujitora is a devil fruit user so he'll use his DF.

Sabo's fighting style is also about using his pipe, something he's been using for a long ass time.

We saw what we needed to see. Fujitora didn't put any serious effort, Sabo was with bruises and admitted himself that Fujitora wasn't trying and had ulterior motives. After that we have Maynard confirming that it made no sense for Fujitora to get stalled by Sabo so there was something weird going on.

You try to twist what's been shown and implied clearly in the manga to support your argument. I mean heck, Tsuru pretty clearly says that Fujitora would have no problem at all to wreck all the pirates and that it would be better to not call any reinforcements but somehow Sabo is equal to him.

lol


----------



## Jujubatman12 (Jun 16, 2019)

Jackteo said:


> Sabo is probably the most overrated character after Zoro. He is strong of course but he can't be YC1 or so just after having unlocked a new power. I think at the end of DR he was comparable to Cracker at most


He was 1st commander before his fruit.


----------



## Quipchaque (Jun 16, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> So throwing a couple of meteors and using moko is Fujitora spamming his devil fruit ? Also what kind of logic is that ? Fujitora is a devil fruit user so he'll use his DF.
> 
> Sabo's fighting style is also about using his pipe, something he's been using for a long ass time.
> 
> ...



Use his devil fruit? Yes. Use it all the time against someone supposedly far weaker and even going as far as using named attacks? No. Look at Luffy and Zoro VS Fujitora, that is what casual Fujitora would look like. 

Doesn't change my point. Sabo's strongest attacks involve his claws and haki.


----------



## TheWiggian (Jun 17, 2019)

Man that's the reason Sabo is overrated as fuck. Luffy got superior feats, portrayal and hype. Whatever Sabo can do, Luffy can do better.

Captain > 2nd in command
Luffy's Feats >>> Sabo's 
Luffy's Haki, FS, CoC, approaching advanced CoA >>> Sabo's hardening
Luffy's 1,5B >>> Sabo's 602M 

It can't be more clear yet people argue about Sabo being stronger, that's exactly why he is overrated.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Hades92 (Jun 17, 2019)

Issho >>Mera Sabo> Luffy = pre mera Sabo  in DR

Now it can be like this

Issho > Luffy>=Current Sabo....FS is a big deal


----------



## TheWiggian (Jun 17, 2019)

Hades92 said:


> Issho >>Mera Sabo> Luffy = pre mera Sabo  in DR
> 
> Now it can be like this
> 
> Issho > Luffy>=Current Sabo....FS is a big deal



Sabo = Luffy based on what exactly?

He is completely outclassed.


----------



## Aaron Tōshiro (Jun 17, 2019)

Crow said:


> Okay, first off Sabo was the strongest person in Dressrosa


Stopped reading there lol


----------



## Flame (Jun 17, 2019)

Hades92 said:


> Issho >>Mera Sabo> Luffy = pre mera Sabo  in DR
> 
> Now it can be like this
> 
> Issho > Luffy>=Current Sabo....FS is a big deal


Sabo isn't touching pre FS G4 Luffy.


----------



## Jujubatman12 (Jun 17, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Man that's the reason Sabo is overrated as fuck. Luffy got superior feats, portrayal and hype. Whatever Sabo can do, Luffy can do better.
> 
> Captain > 2nd in command
> Luffy's Feats >>> Sabo's
> ...


Luffy just beat 1st commander last arc while  Sabo was already at that level and got a power boost because of Flame fruit.
Sabo probably has advance CoA and great COO.  He was the only one keeping up with Hakuba speed like noting and by touching the ground Shockeave comes out of it. I wouldn't doubt his CoA since he had since he was 17. Luffy has been shown way more ofcourse but potrayal wise Sabo should be on luffy level or slightly better. End of Wano Luffy might surpass through, but Sabo also got a new fruit which he is training.


----------



## TheWiggian (Jun 17, 2019)

Jujubatman12 said:


> Luffy just beat 1st commander last arc while  Sabo was already at that level and got a power boost because of Flame fruit.
> Sabo probably has advance CoA and great COO.  He was the only one keeping up with Hakuba speed like noting and by touching the ground Shockeave comes out of it. I wouldn't doubt his CoA since he had since he was 17. Luffy has been shown way more ofcourse but potrayal wise Sabo should be on luffy level or slightly better. End of Wano Luffy might surpass through, but Sabo also got a new fruit which he is training.



He is not at that level as my post clearly states Sabo has yet to achieve anything Luffy already did.

Katakuri's showings indisputably indicate him as far more superior than Sabo. Your whole argument is weak and isn't helping your case as it's simple/baseless speculation.


----------



## Shishio ishere (Jun 27, 2019)

loooooooooooooool
Sabo is in contention for most overrated character of all time when I hear people say "Sabo > Zoro" "Sabo > Doffy" with a straight face despite his feats not even being on the same level as one sword Zoro.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## LolonoisZolo (Jun 27, 2019)

Trafalgar Rao said:


> Stopped reading there lol


hahahahaha I swear the same ahahhahahahah


----------



## Asaya7 (Jun 27, 2019)

underrated though. well i guess it might go both ways lol


----------



## Redline (Jun 27, 2019)

Spot on this tread..let's see


----------



## Asaya7 (Jun 28, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Man that's the reason Sabo is overrated as fuck. Luffy got superior feats, portrayal and hype. Whatever Sabo can do, Luffy can do better.
> 
> Captain > 2nd in command
> Luffy's Feats >>> Sabo's
> ...


though its not impossible sabo knows advanced haki as well. i agree he is overrated though


----------



## Oreki (Jun 29, 2019)

To me, Current Sabo is admiral level whose above Luffy. End of Wano Luffy might surpass Sabo in terms of power but currently, I consider Sabo to be strong. 

it implied in his past that he's learning haki from a young age, making CoA his main haki to carry the fights. In dressrosa when he broke entire Colosseum with his two haki bare hands without putting a strength, might just confirm us that he has advance CoA, I don't think it's far fetched, seeing Luffy learned advance CoA after 2 years training. And Sabo is prodigy too in fighting and has big goals

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## AmitDS (Jun 30, 2019)

As Luffy's big brother I'd say he was Ace/Jinbei level pre time skip and now he's probably YC1 level or slightly higher and still ahead of Luffy. You don't need feats for every little thing and obviously he'd have less feats than Zoro, Luffy or Doflamingo since he never really fought a serious match. 

However it's not hard to see that he's supposed to be incredibly strong as he's right under Dragon, is Luffy's older brother, is hyped by those who see him and teased some great haki feats. He beat a Yonko commander easily and even if Burgess isn't the strongest BB commander that in itself is still a feat. 

Sabo's also been active before during and after the 2 years of the SH being apart so he's not someone who was likely left behind. I feel like he's on the level Ace would have been had he lived. And speaking of Ace, he has his logia df and has shown enough skill to use Ace's signature move just after getting it so he's definitely a powerful fighter.


----------



## Fel1x (Jul 1, 2019)

if you say Sabo<Luffy, you are reading different manga

it's not even about tier level, it's about core of the plot. Sabo is the oldest of ASL (if i remember correctly, even if not, he is older than Luffy)
also many of you underrate Sabo's CoA mastery. I'm pretty sure he is using invisible CoA easily. that is how all of his named attacks works. just reread/rewatch it. he often damages the ground with Haki


----------



## Turrin (Jul 7, 2019)

Based on what’s been shown Sabo and Fujitora on DR had one advanced form of Haki CoA; and potentially had another advanced form on CoO (though this is unclear); and both has just recently got their DF. Katakuri has one advanced form CoO and has full DF mastery to awakening.

Given the above Katakuri >= < Sabo and Fujitora depending on if they have 2 Advanced Types or not. But it’s clear that they will both exceed Katakuri once they have more time to master their new DF; so basically next time we see them I expect both to be stronger then Katakuri, even if they weren’t on DR.


----------



## Flame (Jul 8, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Based on what’s been shown Sabo and Fujitora on DR had one advanced form of Haki CoA; and potentially had another advanced form on CoO (though this is unclear); and both has just recently got their DF. Katakuri has one advanced form CoO and has full DF mastery to awakening.
> 
> Given the above Katakuri >= < Sabo and Fujitora depending on if they have 2 Advanced Types or not. But it’s clear that they will both exceed Katakuri once they have more time to master their new DF; so basically next time we see them I expect both to be stronger then Katakuri, even if they weren’t on DR.


Katakuri also has advanced CoA. His punches hurt Luffy from the inside.


----------



## Turrin (Jul 8, 2019)

Flame said:


> Katakuri also has advanced CoA. His punches hurt Luffy from the inside.


When?


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 8, 2019)

Fujitora > Sabo > Fruitless Sabo > whoever else was on Dressrosa

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Red Admiral (Jul 10, 2019)

Sabo is YC1 ... weaker than Kata why a small gap

p.s

reading the comment people expect Sabo hit the top tier already ...
I guess some people put the faith in wrong place

just remember Marco ... even Sabo being Marco level is not that logical ... let alone admirals


----------



## Gledania (Jul 12, 2019)

Sabo used a level of advanced CoA never seen until now.

I put him as FM level


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 12, 2019)

Sabo is underrated in general.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 12, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Fujitora > Sabo > Fruitless Sabo > whoever else was on Dressrosa


 actually this is wrong 

I missed Lucci lmfao


----------



## Beast (Jul 12, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> actually this is wrong
> 
> I missed Lucci lmfao


Ima take my like back if that’s how you feel.


----------

