# The Saiyans Vs The Empire (starwars)



## gtw1983 (Oct 16, 2007)

Battle for galactic domination.

I'm not exactly sure but i've got a hunch that the Empire at least has a lot more Soldiers than the saiyans since they recruit from all over the universe.

this includes the main star wars baddies as well,in other words Vader and Sidious.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 16, 2007)

Oh Geeze. Well first let me ask a question, is the empire allowed to use its super weapons or not?


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## gtw1983 (Oct 16, 2007)

strongarm85 said:


> Oh Geeze. Well first let me ask a question, is the empire allowed to use its super weapons or not?



Sure.....

I don't want this fight to be a Curbstomp in the saiyans favor by no means


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

The only threats to the high tier saiyans are superweapons and there are not enough of those to do the job. Saiyans stomp.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 16, 2007)

Than the Empire Curbstomps by using the Deathstar to blow up the Saiyen Homeworld wiping out all of them accept Vegeta, Nappa, Raditz, and Kakarot since none of them can live in space.

Then using their star destroiers they can slowly be surely begin a process of destroying any planet that a rumored saiyen would be on. In other words Technology trumps power and Star Wars rapes.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Rofl. Dude goku could destroy the deathstar before it even finishes charging up.


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## Zaru (Oct 16, 2007)

Let me get this straight.

Technically, powerlevel 400 piccolo blew up the moon.

Late dbz goku/vegeta/gohan/trunks are million times stronger than that.

Lol, calculations


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## Jackal (Oct 16, 2007)

3 words. "DBZ Rapes Deathstar"


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## Blix (Oct 16, 2007)

> Than the Empire Curbstomps by using the Deathstar to blow up the Saiyen Homeworld wiping out all of them accept Vegeta, Nappa, Raditz, and Kakarot since none of them can live in space.




The saiyans have brolly.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

All superweapons are allowed? Sun Crusher solo's. It busts solar systems.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 16, 2007)

Sun Crusher FTW.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Brolly ftw if he is allowed.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

Brolly dies in a supernova from the Sun Crusher. Hell it's possbile for it to bust multiple star systems and cause stars to go supernova at the same time.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Brolly destroys galaxies. Galaxies>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>solar system. He demolishes sun crusher.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

Bolly was never shown on screen to destroy galaxies. Hell even Goku needs time just to blow up a planet. Lol. Anime filler doesn't count.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Brolly is only from filler so if we use him then we are using filler that applies to him.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

And is shows a galaxy being destroyed in one of the first scenes of the movie.

Didn't toriyama himself state that movies/anime filler = canon too?


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

It showed the life in the galaxy dying out. Nothing about the galaxy itself being destroyed.

@No Zaru, aside from the Future of Trunsk and Bardock Special, none of the movies are canon.


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## Ulfgar (Oct 16, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Brolly is only from filler so if we use him then we are using filler that applies to him.



But were not including non-canon things now are we? So anyway, Galaxy gun and world devastators solo.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Galaxy gun? World devastators? What do those do?


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## Dark Ascendant (Oct 16, 2007)

Considering the ease with which saiyans destroy planets, and the fact that super saiyans and above are thousands of times stronger, they can annihilate the Empire a thousand time over.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

And the Sun Crusher can blow up entire solar systems and the energy backwash doesn't dent it.


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## Zaru (Oct 16, 2007)

Goku teleports to the command bridge or whatever of that Sun Crusher thingy and EXPLOOOOOOOZ before those guys even notice they're fighting something.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Wait does the empire even have the sun crusher?


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

His not going to teleport into a starfighter that moves a couple thousand times faster then him. Nor can he get through the shields or diamond armor that can shunt on radiation and energy released from multiple supernova's Zaru.


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## Zaru (Oct 16, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> His not going to teleport into a starfighter that moves a couple thousand times faster then him. Nor can he get through the shields or diamond armor that can shunt on radiation and energy released from multiple supernova's Zaru.


Alright, after hearing that, this whole EU stuff is seriously written by crack bitches on at least 5 different drugs.

Still canon, but crack shit.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Since when is it faster than instant transmission?


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

The Sun crusher is the most broken thing in star wars there are few thing's that I can think of that can take it in a fight it moves faster than Light due to having a hyperdrive so goku would be unable to get a lock on it fast enough.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

Zaru said:


> Alright, after hearing that, this whole EU stuff is seriously written by crack bitches on at least 5 different drugs.
> 
> Still canon, but crack shit.



It's designed to bust solar systems. How is that crack? They had to throw it into a super black hole and that didn't even destroy it, just isolate it.

Don't talk shit about EU. 

And Keyes, IT isn't speed.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

He means crack shit in that it really is ridiculous the power levels they put in the eu when compared to the movies. I loved the movies but the eu planetwide force storms sun crusher crap really just turned me off from that.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

But nothing in Dragonball.


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> So I guess you never read marvel or dc comics much? There is alot of stuff that can take down the crackhead creation.



Yeah and there cosmics are a few of the things I can think of that can beat it but as White said nothing in Dragon Ball is even scratching it.


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## Zaru (Oct 16, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> It's designed to bust solar systems. How is that crack? They had to throw it into a super black hole and that didn't even destroy it, just isolate it.
> 
> Don't talk shit about EU.


You probably remember me saying EU just makes everything in star wars 1000 times stronger.

This starcrusher thing is a prime example of them doing so.

Well, that's critique on the base of this thread, doesn't change the fact that this superweapon is the way for the empire to seemingly win.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

Xellos Metallium said:


> Yeah and there cosmics are a few of the things I can think of that can beat it.



Star Wars has comics took. Like the Reborn Emperor Palpatine who rip apart the fabric of space and time with his rage. 



Zaru said:


> You probably remember me saying EU just makes everything in star wars 1000 times stronger.
> 
> This starcrusher thing is a prime example of them doing so.
> 
> Well, that's critique on the base of this thread, doesn't change the fact that this superweapon is the way for the empire to seemingly win.



It is the fact that the Empire will win with it or the Galaxy Gun. And Keys, IT is not "infinite" speed.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Wait there is a gun that DESTROYS Galaxies in the eu?


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

Majin buu or ssj3 Goku would stand no hope in beating the Sun crusher it can survive the gravitational pull of a black hole and can tank super novas with ease lol.

No galaxy gun one shots planets like death star just with a much much better range.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

No it can blow up planets, it can't blow up galaxies despite it's name.


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## The Sentry (Oct 16, 2007)

Saiyans win with relative ease. they win by sending new born babies of Gokus baby level and really really old saiyans


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 16, 2007)

Sun Crusher soloing is BS, just fanboy nonsense as usuall from the star wars geeks that seem to abound in here.

all Goku has to do (BESIDES destroying the tiny sun crusher like a grape) is touch the friggin thing and teleport it to where ever the hell he wants, maybe even another dimension ( i here King Kai could use a new toy)


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

Because no one in DB has shown to survive a single or multiple busting of solar systems.


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Planet busting will not win it for th eu. And how do you get that a supernova is going to get rid of the high tiers of db???



OMG lol a super nova would own them all lol An other point can't The Empire just shot down the Saijin craft when it enters orbit of one of there planets lol which would kill them due to the vacuum and the fact Saijins need air Saijins can't even fight back lol.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

@ kiba And Goku never destroyed a planet. So I guess he can not then huh? Anyway durability wise they might not be able to tank the blast but they can always destroy it. Also a powerful saiyan like goku would be able to hold his breath long enough to get in the atmospher if it is near the orbit of the planet.


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> And Goku never destroyed a planet. So I guess he can not then huh?



No he can't get of his planet with out a ship which the empire would own with ease so empire win due to Saijins being stuck on there planet being unable to attack the empire.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

~RAGING BONER~ said:


> Sun Crusher soloing is BS, just fanboy nonsense as usuall from the star wars geeks that seem to abound in here.
> 
> all Goku has to do (BESIDES destroying the tiny sun crusher like a grape) is touch the friggin thing and teleport it to where ever the hell he wants, maybe even another dimension ( i here King Kai could use a new toy)



Because Goku can breathe in space amiright? And he can physically crush something that causes multiple super novas right and not have any harm done to it from that energy backwash? okay.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

He never said physically destroy it like with a punch. Plus like he said he can move it to a different dimension.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

Goku can't move between dimensions.


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

Oh and he is going to be able to touch the ship moving hundreds of times the speed of light travelling in space where Goku can not breath and then Instant transmission it to an other demension lol.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Like when he didn't teleport cell to king kai's planet? He can touch it using instant transmission.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

Which he only ever did once, which was more like some Deus Ex Machina plot hole.


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## Zaru (Oct 16, 2007)

Xellos Metallium said:


> No he can't get of his planet with out a ship which the empire would own with ease so empire win due to Saijins being stuck on there planet being unable to attack the empire.



Vegeta and Nappa, and well basically any other saiyan showed the ability to freely stand around in space


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Majin buu used the technique to go there also.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

Zaru said:


> Vegeta and Nappa, and well basically any other saiyan showed the ability to freely stand around in space



Anime filler, try again.


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

Zaru said:


> Vegeta and Nappa, and well basically any other saiyan showed the ability to freely stand around in space



That was anime filler and they where standing in there space pods which could have had a force field that protected them.


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## Zaru (Oct 16, 2007)

Oh great, not only is the anime untrue, imagine if someone here only saw the american dub.

I remember piccolo commenting on Radditz with "HE'S FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT!" (nothing like that in japanese), and we know how much crap that statement is.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Bardock special was canon and he was in space without a spaceship or anything.


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

It was originally Anime Filler it was made Canon latter and it completely contradicts what Freeze said during his fight with Goku but still a good point it is a feat of a Saijin in space


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 16, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Because Goku can breathe in space amiright? And he can physically crush something that causes multiple super novas right and not have any harm done to it from that energy backwash? okay.



please...people with power levels over one bazillion can swallow star wars super weapons without chewing. Force storms are like warm breezes to them. I doubt he'd need an energy blast from more than one finger to destroy the tiny sun crusher.

as for Breathing in space, why would he do that? its *INSTANT* transmission remember?


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

@xellos So then what frieza said must not have been true then.


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

I have not seen the episode in ages but Goku seems to beleave it to be true by what he says back to Freaza can't exactly remember what he says though.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Well saiyans were shown to be in space without any breathing device in a canon source.


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## Chocochip (Oct 16, 2007)

How long were they in space?


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 16, 2007)

thegoodjae said:


> How long were they in space?



the whole time it took for Frieza to decimate their forces and destroy the plate Vegeta.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

I don't know exactly but it was longer than a few minutes and he was talking while in space.


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

What canon source the Bardock thing was a one off and I think Freaza knows what he is talking about. Any way no Saijin can defeat the sun crusher even if they manage to take every thing else down the sun crusher will rape them it is near indestructible nothing short of a high end reality warper is taking it down and unfortunately no saijin has that power.


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## LivingHitokiri (Oct 16, 2007)

Xellos Metallium said:


> What canon source the Bardock thing was a one off and I think Freaza knows what he is saying. Any way no Saijin can defeat the sun crusher even if they manage to take every thing else down the sun crusher will rape them it is near indestructible nothing short of a high end reality warper is taking it down and unfortunately no saijin has that power.



There are many people besides high end reality warpers who could take it down.


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 16, 2007)

Xellos Metallium said:


> What canon source the Bardock thing was a one off and I think Freaza knows what he is saying. Any way no Saijin can defeat the sun crusher even if they manage to take every thing else down the sun crusher will rape them it is near indestructible nothing short of a high end reality warper is taking it down and unfortunately no saijin has that power.



Buu destroys GALAXIES.

Goku > Buu

Sun Crusher is just a cheap trinket thought up by some EU crack pot writer.


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## wheres the beef? (Oct 16, 2007)

The sun crusher is a broken piece of shit.Wait,aren't Saiyans the same thing? 
Anyway,I think anyone with Instant transmission could do the job.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

LOL High end reality warpers can create a thousand sun crushers and fingerflick them into destruction.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

And the Bardock special is canon.


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

Tifa said:


> There are many people besides high end reality warpers who could take it down.



Please name a none reality Warper other than that Huge mech TTGL that can beat the sun crusher.

The sun Crusher can tank multiple super novas with out getting a scratch and can fly trough black holes with out taking damage. And it being Part of EU changes the fact it rapes them why.


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 16, 2007)

lol Hulk picks his teeth with the Sun Crusher.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 16, 2007)

Wow, this thread is full of wank.  Then again, it's Wars EU vs DBZ, so it's not unexpected.

Buu does not destroy galaxies.  It's been disproven several times.  He busts planets, that's it.


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

~RAGING BONER~ said:


> lol Hulk picks his teeth with the Sun Crusher.


 The sun crushers is Hundreds of times the speed of light it would make the nearest sun go nova and Hulk is dead unless he has a feat where he survives a super nova that is.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Silver Surfer Superman paralaxx ion tons of others


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Yeah buu never busted a galaxy.


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## LivingHitokiri (Oct 16, 2007)

Xellos Metallium said:


> Please name a none reality Warper other than that Huge mech TTGL that can beat the sun crusher.
> 
> The sun Crusher can tank multiple super novas with out getting a scratch and can fly trough black holes with out taking damage. And it being Part of EU changes the fact it rapes them why.



Rune King Thor
Thanos
Galactus
SS
Tyrant
Odin

And that's only a few from Marvel


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## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 16, 2007)

Xellos Metallium said:


> The sun crushers is Hundreds of times the speed of light it would make the nearest sun go nova and Hulk is dead unless he has a feat where he survives a super nova that is.



If the Hulk is really, really pissed off, he could probably survive a super nova.

Hulk smash puny physics!!


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## azngamer87 (Oct 16, 2007)

Does the sun crusher need time to charge because if it does goku will I.T in the sun crusher and destroy it from the inside out.


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 16, 2007)

ok i was wrong...Anime Buu destroyed 12 galaxies but Manga Buu ONLY destroyed 700 planets (_yeah, i bet he can't destroy a fucking sun crusher_).


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

Tifa said:


> Rune King Thor
> Thanos
> Galactus
> SS
> ...



Most of those are reality warpers and yes most do rape the sun crusher.

^no it just shots a missile into the near by sun and it go's nova and it is to fast for goku to touch. 

Black Hole >> Buu

sun crusher >> black hole


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## LivingHitokiri (Oct 16, 2007)

Xellos Metallium said:


> Most of those are reality warpers and yes most do rape the sun crusher.



No, they are not reality warpers.

Unless you are including matter manipulators as reality warpers.

But if that's the case you could say FMA are reality warpers.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 16, 2007)

Tifa said:


> No, they are not reality warpers.



But they are high-end cosmics.


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## The Sentry (Oct 16, 2007)

~RAGING BONER~ said:


> ok i was wrong...Anime Buu destroyed 12 galaxies but Manga Buu ONLY destroyed 700 planets (_yeah, i bet he can't destroy a fucking sun crusher_).



The DBZ universe only has 4 huge galaxies. Buu destroyed a galaxy in the manga and anime. STOP MAKING THINGS UP


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## LivingHitokiri (Oct 16, 2007)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> But they are high-end cosmics.



Galactus is the only high end cosmic in that list.

Maybe consider Odin and RKT one, depends on if you include skyfathers as high cosmics.

That's irrelevant anyway, as he said only high-end *reality warpers* could beat it.


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 16, 2007)

Kirk transports onto the Sun Crusher and Karate Chops whatever nerd is piloting it...then he makes out with the guys wife whose a green three tittied alien bitch that happens to be on board.


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

Tifa said:


> Galactus is the only high end cosmic in that list.
> 
> That's irrelevant anyway, as he said only high-end *reality warpers* could beat it.



I thought matter manipulation was reality warping and Tyrant used to be almost as powerful as Galactus so he used to be a high end cosmic.

^ it's the size of a tie fighter with room for one guy kirks not geting on


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 16, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> The DBZ universe only has 4 huge galaxies. Buu destroyed a galaxy in the manga and anime. STOP MAKING THINGS UP


i try not to pull shit outta my ass like EU writers...

thats were i found it that info.



Xellos Metallium said:


> ^ it's the size of a tie fighter with room for one guy



theres always a hot Alien bitch for Kirk to make out with.


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## Orion (Oct 16, 2007)

~RAGING BONER~ said:


> ok i was wrong...Anime Buu destroyed 12 galaxies but Manga Buu ONLY destroyed 700 planets (_yeah, i bet he can't destroy a fucking sun crusher_).



Manga buu only destroyed many planets over a course of several years no number was given,and theres only 4 galaxies in dbz...so yea anime buu didnt destroy 12 galaxies.


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## LivingHitokiri (Oct 16, 2007)

Xellos Metallium said:


> I thought matter manipulation was reality warping and Tyrant used to be almost as powerful as Galactus so he used to be a high end cosmic.
> 
> ^ it's the size of a tie fighter with room for one guy kirks not geting on



Ah yea, I forgot about Tyrant.

And reality warping is different from matter manipulation.

Example of reality warping: House of M

I don't see how someone who can manipulate matter could do that.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 16, 2007)

Finally found the thread that is practically the same as this one.

Here it is.


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## Jay (Oct 16, 2007)

Being able to manipulate matter, for example, would be to turn a rock into a can of coke.

Whereas actual reality warping is where you can turn everything around you, people, scenery, yourself or any object, into anything you want.


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## Juggernaut (Oct 16, 2007)

What controls the Sun Crusher?  How does it operate?


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

Jay said:


> Being able to manipulate matter, for example, would be to turn a rock into a can of coke.
> 
> Whereas actual reality warping is where you can turn everything around you, people, scenery, yourself or any object, into anything you want.



Wow turning a rock into a can of coke could be really useful when you get thirsty. 
I was bit ignorant of the differences they seemed very similar to me.

It's piloted by well a pilot. I think it was Han solo in the book.


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## Juggernaut (Oct 16, 2007)

Xellos Metallium said:


> It's piloted by well a pilot. I think it was Han solo in the book.



In other words who cares if the thing is invincible on the outside.  Goku ITs some people in, kills the pilot, blast the controls, whats it gonna do?

Better yet, take the sayian nature, IT people in and take control of it.


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

Juggernaut said:


> In other words who cares if the thing is invincible on the outside.  Goku ITs some people in, kills the pilot, blast the controls, whats it gonna do?
> 
> Better yet, take the sayian nature, IT people in and take control of it.



It is only just big enough to fit one person inside it is the same size as a Tie fighter and it moves hundreds of times the speed of light packing enough fire power to make a star go nova.


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## Juggernaut (Oct 16, 2007)

Xellos Metallium said:


> It is only just big enough to fit one person inside it is the same size as a Tie fighter and it moves hundreds of times the speed of light packing enough fire power to make a star go nova.



Wow, that is a stupid weapon/fighter.  I was thinking it was around Deathstar size or bigger.  Well just IT in a Ki Blast and destroy it from the inside.


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

There not enough room for Goku to get inside unfortunately and I think the inside is indestructible to (the pilots not though) as the they could not destroy it even though they had it in there position they had to dump it into a black hole so no one could use it (it survived the black hole but it is now out of reach) and i don't think goku could get a lock on it while it moves at a Hundred times the speed of light.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 16, 2007)

According to the canon AoTC Incredible Cross Sections, a Venator's turbolasers have a range of three light-minutes.  That's approximately 33,456,838 miles out.


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## Blix (Oct 16, 2007)

Xellos Metallium said:


> It's piloted by well a pilot. I think it was Han solo in the book.



Why was he blowing up suns?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 16, 2007)

Blix said:


> Why was he blowing up suns?



Kyp Durron was the one blowing up suns.  He was influenced by the spirit of a Sith Lord named Exar Kun.


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## Gig (Oct 16, 2007)

Blix said:


> Why was he blowing up suns?



He was bored and wanted to destroy some random stars. I think there was an other Pilot after solo who was the one who was blowing up Stars.


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## Ulfgar (Oct 16, 2007)

The empire has too many ships and considering the Saiyins cannot breathe in space than they are confined to one planet, so if empire is bloodlusted then sun crusher, or Death star rapes them. if they are feeling nasty, World devastors or an orbital nightcloak.


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## The Sentry (Oct 16, 2007)

Vegeta destroys the death star with a generic ki blast


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## Chocochip (Oct 16, 2007)

Too bad Goku can't just IT everyone to the Death Star...oh wait..


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## Darklyre (Oct 16, 2007)

Plus, you kinda need ki for Goku to lock on for an IT.


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## The Sentry (Oct 16, 2007)

Goku only needs to sense the KI. Goku could sense the Ki of people in the death star


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## Orion (Oct 16, 2007)

Suncrusher wins this.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Yup he could sense ki. Also a death star is not a big problem the only real problem is the sun crusher.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Wait if it is the size of a tie fighter then goku could possibly squeeze in there and kill the pilot.


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## Darklyre (Oct 16, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> Goku only needs to sense the KI. Goku could sense the Ki of people in the death star



Didn't Goku himself say that he needed to know the ki of the person before he could track on to it?


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

I am pretty sure he just said ki. What chapter was it again? I want to go re read it to be sure.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

feitan said:


> Suncrusher wins this.



Pretty much but GOKU appearenty survive solar system busters and crush said thing that tanks those attacks!


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

I do not think there are even any characters in the manga that claim to be able to survive a supernova. Busting a sun is up to debate but not surviving the busting of a sun.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

It can bust a solar systems and cause multiple stars to super nova, which is hundreds of thousandfold more energy then the strongest end of series DB characters could produce.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Maybe. I am still trying out some calculations on the damage top tier DBers can do. It probably will take a while so don't expect me to post it in this thread any time soon.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 16, 2007)

A little known fact about the Deathstar is that it can actually tank a blast from its own super laser. Without such structural stability the Deathstar would rip itself apart the force of its own firepower.

Sadly this means the only way those Saiyens are destroying the Deathstar is if they managed to get inside.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Lol dude planet busting attacks are child's play for top tier saiyans.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

That's why Dan Dankai Vegeta took a couple minutes to charge up his Final Flash attack  against Perfect Cell right?


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

And your point is? That was well above planet busting.


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## Wesley (Oct 16, 2007)

strongarm85 said:


> A little known fact about the Deathstar is that it can actually tank a blast from its own super laser. Without such structural stability the Deathstar would rip itself apart the force of its own firepower.
> 
> Sadly this means the only way those Saiyens are destroying the Deathstar is if they managed to get inside.



Hm.  That's a good point.  An equal and opposite reaction and all that.  It doesn't even shake while firing the Superlaser.  Pretty good...


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

All of them barring Buu require minutes to charge up their Ki to blow up a planet. The Death Star could just nail them while their doing it. Ten/fifteen seconds >>>>>>> five minutes of powering up.


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## Wesley (Oct 16, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> All of them barring Buu require minutes to charge up their Ki to blow up a planet. The Death Star could just nail them while their doing it. Ten/fifteen seconds >>>>>>> five minutes of powering up.



Right.  "That's impossible, even for a computer."


----------



## Zephos (Oct 16, 2007)

It took maybe a few seconds for Vegeta to fire Final Flash, mostly spent taunting Cell. Same for pretty much all big blasts pre-Boo.
What are we, going off the anime here?


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

^What he said.


----------



## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

Zephos said:


> It took maybe a few seconds for Vegeta to fire Final Flash, mostly spent taunting Cell. Same for pretty much all big blasts pre-Boo.
> What are we, going off the anime here?



Still won't help any of them against the Sun Crusher.


----------



## Dark Ascendant (Oct 16, 2007)

Goku by himself can destroy the Empire just by using Kid Buu tactics. He can just IT to a planet and shoot a ki blast from the sky and leave before it hits. No surviving witnesses on the planet, or in orbit around it. He can repeat this indefinitely. There's nothing the Imperials can do to counter IT. Hell, they won't even know what's hitting them. And as long as he takes out Coruscant, Palpatine, and Vader, the Empire will pretty much self-destruct on its own.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

Dark Ascendant said:


> Goku by himself can destroy the Empire just by using Kid Buu tactics. He can just IT to a planet and shoot a ki blast from the sky and leave before it hits. No surviving witnesses on the planet, or in orbit around it. He can repeat this indefinitely. There's nothing the Imperials can do to counter IT. Hell, they won't even know what's hitting them.



Goku can't breath in space, none of them can. Goku can't survive a solar system buster, much less multiple ones. Z Senshi losses.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 16, 2007)

Zephos said:


> It took maybe a few seconds for Vegeta to fire Final Flash, mostly spent taunting Cell. Same for pretty much all big blasts pre-Boo.
> What are we, going off the anime here?



Didn't it take almost 10 minutes in the Anime for Vegeta to charge up and then fire the Final Flash?


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Yes but the anime is infamous for taking WAAAY too long to do stuff. And the hit and run tactics can work for Goku all he has to do is time the IT so that he has enough air to fire the blast and do another IT. And it isn't like they are going to be able to target a sun near him since he will only be on the radar for a few seconds before he does an IT to another place.


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## Dark Ascendant (Oct 16, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Goku can't breath in space, none of them can. Goku can't survive a solar system buster, much less multiple ones. Z Senshi losses.



Read closely. I said he sends ki blasts down on a planet and IT out _before_ the blast hits.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

Read closely, he needs to be familiar with someone's ki to do so. And last I checked, normal humans in the SWU don't have Ki. They barely have enough of the Force to live. So explain that. Unless your using anime filler non-canon logic.

So anyway, Sun Crusher solo's hard.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

Force pretty much will equal ki chakra spirit energy chi and all that in the battledome. So yes he can detect lifeforms and IT accordingly.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 16, 2007)

Here is the problem with spending any time at all in space. Its called Explosive Decompression in a Vacume. It wouldn't matter if Goku only spent a second in space, the exposure would rip him apart by pulling the insides out of his body.


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## Fang (Oct 16, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Force pretty much will equal ki chakra spirit energy chi and all that in the battledome. So yes he can detect lifeforms and IT accordingly.



Uh, not people who he isn't familiar with. Badda bing.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

That is people with regular durability. What makes you think it would be able to do that to someone with Goku's durability? Also if he is in the atmosphere when he sends the blast he won't have to worry about it.


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## Sylar (Oct 16, 2007)

gtw1983 said:


> this includes the main star wars baddies as well,in other words Vader and *Sidious*.



F$ck your Sun Crushers and your Galaxy Guns.

Sidious mindrapes them all.


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## Wesker (Oct 16, 2007)

^LOL force users are pretty much a nonfactor against any super saiyan level saiyan.


----------



## wheres the beef? (Oct 16, 2007)

Will the light bulb ever be fixed?! Find out on the next exciting episode of dwagon ball ZEE!!!
This thread's still going,lol.


----------



## Kaki (Oct 17, 2007)

Why is everyone fighting the empire?


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## Fang (Oct 17, 2007)

Dunno, appereantly Sayians can breath in space and survive solar system busters.


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## Wesker (Oct 17, 2007)

They were breathing in space in the bardock special but I am not sure if they can survive solar system busters.


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## Fang (Oct 17, 2007)

They were in the atmosphere. Freeza was the only person in space.


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## Wesker (Oct 17, 2007)

It looked like they were in space to me.


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## Apollo (Oct 17, 2007)

The saiyins win this one


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## Fang (Oct 17, 2007)

All the Saiyans were in Planet Vegeta's atmosphere. How the hell is a Saiyan who can't breathe in space, going to destroy something that can tank attacks that blow away solar systems and make multiple stars go super nova?


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## Wesker (Oct 17, 2007)

He does not have to destroy it he only has to destroy the pilot. And what makes you say they were in the atmosphere?


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## strongarm85 (Oct 17, 2007)

No... Saiyens loose hard this time. All the Empire had to do to win is stay in space and use their capital ships and superweapons to wipe out the Saiyens without ever having to fight them face to face. The only one who can cause problems is Goku and even he can be easily dealt with.


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## Wesker (Oct 17, 2007)

The only thing dealing with goku vegeta and other high tier saiyans is the sun crusher and possibly the deathstar if it is goten or trunks.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 17, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> He does not have to destroy it he only has to destroy the pilot. And what makes you say they were in the atmosphere?



You want to know what would happen to Goku if he tried to IT inside the Sun Crusher and kill the pilot? It would be just like what would happen Night Crawler if he teleported himself inside a wall. Goku, who would likely be standing up at the time would have his legs in the cockpit of the Sun Crusher while the top of him would be sliced in half by top of the craft sending Goku into shock. 

A fraction of a second later Goku's Torso, which is out in space I might add would peel off the side of the like an old band Aid because Sun Crusher would be moving nearly the speed of light, if not faster than light, and Goku would have ITed moving a lot slower than the ship. Seconds later the force of the vacuum would rip out Goku's exposed organs and empty him out like a jar while eyes where ripped off and his head exploaded.

Meanwhile inside the sun Crusher you would have a pilot whose only injuries would be to his psyche as he tries to comprehend how a pair of legs appeared from no where only to bleed all over him.


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## Wesker (Oct 17, 2007)

.....There is room in the cockpit you know. Although it is a stretch that he would get there in the exact position so it most likely would not happen but it is a possibility.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 18, 2007)

He's not going to instant transmission into space and destroy himself. Of course if some of the earlier poster had as keen a memory as I have they would have remembered that space suits are cannon in Dragonball Z and that Goku surviving in space is a non issue.

Of course that presents another problem, Goku's energy blast are not powerful enough or fast enough to destroy the Sun Crusher which survived being cast into a Black Hole. Using instant transmission to enter the cockpit of the Sun Crusher would most likely be fatal for someone Goku's size, and none of the other saiyens know how to use it.


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## Sylar (Oct 18, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> .....There is room in the cockpit you know. Although it is a stretch that he would get there in the exact position so it most likely would not happen but it is a possibility.



Goku is going to teleport into a tiny cockpit of a ship moving nearly the speed of light?


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## Wesker (Oct 18, 2007)

That was already discussed like I said there is a small possibility of him getting in the cockpit. So it would not work most of the time. Sylar it is Instant Transmission. Not the shitty anime version which was only the speed of light. But like I said most of the time he would not be able to get in there due to lack of space.


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

I wonder what happens when Goku hits the armor of the Sun Crusher.


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## Gig (Oct 18, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> That was already discussed like I said there is a small possibility of him getting in the cockpit. So it would not work most of the time. Sylar it is Instant Transmission. Not the shitty anime version which was only the speed of light. But like I said most of the time he would not be able to get in there due to lack of space.



There is no hope of him teleporting inside the sun crusher have you ever watched the Star Wars Movie the cockpits of fighters are almost as small as the guy piloting them Goku dies the way strongarm85 described because I can not think of a more gruesome death my self. Maybe the fighter pilot will be really old and die from a heart attack that?s your only chance for taking the sun crusher down and even if they did the empire just use one of there many super weapons to take down any planet where there has been a roomer that a Saijin is there.


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## ?Grimmjow? (Oct 18, 2007)

saiyans would easily deflect the shots!!!!


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

No, as in the entire Earth solar system and all of its stars get obliterated in one shot from the Sun Crusher. They aren't surviving that, nor have they ever fought solar system busters nor could they since planet busters scare them.


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## Cromer (Oct 18, 2007)

Can we leave this thread as is, before real flaming starts? So the Saiyans might win, or the Sun Crusher might do its nut. Eh?


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

It is very simple. The released out put of energy from busting multiple stars and solar systems don't bother the Sun Crusher. No one in Dragonball is going to affect something moving in normal speeds near FTL busting stars.


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## Wuzzman (Oct 18, 2007)

Piccolo before he trained for his fight with Nappa and Vegata could destroy a moon with ease. Vegata eons before he even reached super sayian or even fought freeza busted a planet bigger then earth with ease. Now multiply that but 100X and then you have a accurate knowledge of how broken the current sayians like goku, gohan, ect.


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## Zaru (Oct 18, 2007)

Of course, going by powerlevel, we can assume that the Saiyans can destroy most things made out of matter.

But we never saw them actually DESTROYING something like a solar system. So it's not canon but only assumption.


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

Zaru said:


> Of course, going by powerlevel, we can assume that the Saiyans can destroy most things made out of matter.
> 
> But we never saw them actually DESTROYING something like a solar system. So it's not canon but only assumption.



You realized that Kid Buu could only vaporize the Earth, and he's one of the strongest characters right? You understand that the difference in taking out a planet and a solar system is hundreds of thousandfold in terms of energy.

If Cell was going to bust the Earth's solar system, how come the Earth wasn't destroyed between Gohan and Cell's energy duel?

They can't. Simple as that. None of them can.


----------



## Zaru (Oct 18, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> You realized that Kid Buu could only vaporize the Earth, and he's one of the strongest characters right? You understand that the difference in taking out a planet and a solar system is hundreds of thousandfold in terms of energy.
> 
> If Cell was going to bust the Earth's solar system, how come the Earth wasn't destroyed between Gohan and Cell's energy duel?
> 
> They can't. Simple as that. None of them can.



It's a matter of inconsistency with destruction power in DB.

As said above, early dbz piccolo could destroy a moon with a quick blast.
Heck, even way weaker roshi could do that with some charging.

But the fact remains that fights in dbz are on a surface and destruction is stuff like destroying rocks or creating craters.

You see, they could EASILY destroy planets at early dbz - and they are million times (literally, by power level) stronger than that in late dbz.

So theoretically, they'd be able to destroy a space million times larger than a planet?

I'd think so, but it's only assumption and thus not usable for this argument, sadly.


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

Zaru said:


> It's a matter of inconsistency with destruction power in DB.
> 
> As said above, early dbz piccolo could destroy a moon with a quick blast.
> Heck, even way weaker roshi could do that with some charging.
> ...



No not until Freeza could anyone destroy planets, and even in his 100% Final Full Power Form, he couldn't outright destroy Namek, he had to hit it's core and cause a chain reaction to destroy it.

It is NOT logical to assume that if it takes the strongest villian in DB to blow up a planet, that they can bust a solar system. Do you have any idea how large a solar system is?


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## Zaru (Oct 18, 2007)

Of course. The matter in it isn't really that much, but the distance between the planets and the sun is usually FUCKING LARGE.

And fang, it's still an inconsistency. A moon isn't THAT much smaller than the earth.
Piccolo destroyed it with a quick blast. He had like powerlevel 350 back then?
Yet his uber attack he used against radditz that needed to charge for quite a while ONLY fucked a hole into a mountain.

Strength of attack =/= destructive power in dbz, it seems.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 18, 2007)

I see no one has adressed the range issue yet.


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## Sylar (Oct 18, 2007)

This entire thread is getting ridiculous.

This is just Saiyans and only 4 or 5 Saiyans are capable of even planet busting.


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## Morpheus (Oct 18, 2007)

The only superweapon The Empire has that can seriously damage the Sayians is the Death Star, and it can easily be destroyed by the combined forces of the Sayians.

Now, if this was the Star Wars verse with the rest of the superweapons, the Star Forge and more Sith Lords like Nihilus, it would be an entirely different story.


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## Sylar (Oct 18, 2007)

Sieglein said:


> The only superweapon The Empire has that can seriously damage the Sayians is the Death Star, and it can easily be destroyed by the combined forces of the Sayians.
> 
> Now, if this was the Star Wars verse with the rest of the superweapons, the Star Forge and more Sith Lords like Nihilus, it would be an entirely different story.



The Sun Crusher could take down any number of Death Stars easily.


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

Zaru said:


> Of course. The matter in it isn't really that much, but the distance between the planets and the sun is usually FUCKING LARGE.
> 
> And fang, it's still an inconsistency. A moon isn't THAT much smaller than the earth.
> Piccolo destroyed it with a quick blast. He had like powerlevel 350 back then?
> ...



Freeza is millions of times stronger then Roshi, yet needed five minutes to blow up Namek, the same size of the Earth, with a chain reaction. So I guess I win. 

They can only bust planets in DB.


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## Wuzzman (Oct 18, 2007)

lol. The creator of dragonball sense of physics is off. Every fight past goku vs vegata was beyond planet busting level. The reason why they never busted a planet during combat because as you guys like to point out, Z fighters can't fight in space. And besides having terrian to fight on looks more dramtic then fighting in a void. DragonballZ is not a manga or an anime that puts much focus on logic if you haven't noticed. 

DragonballZ characters have been past the ability to bust galaxies when they started to train the cell games. When a sayain goes from base sayian to super sayian their base strength is multipied by 10. Now take the base strength of that super sayian and multiply it by 10 again for super sayian 2. Now for goku who is super sayian 3 multiply his super sayian 2 strength by 10 again. Again comparing power levels. If piccolo who was no where near base goku when he doing the sayian saga, was able to destroy a moon....and vegata who was even with base goku before the freeza saga could destroy a planet with ease....do you really want to multiply the power it takes to blow up a planet by 10. Then multiply that strength by 10 again. Then multiply that strength by 10 (buu saga) again...seriously.... 

That means base power = 1 planet destroyed.
Base power times 10 super saiyan = 10 planet destroyed
Base power times 10 again, super saiyan 2 = 100 planets destroyed
Base power times 10 again, super saiyan 3 = 1,000 planets destroyed.


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## Zaru (Oct 18, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Freeza is millions of times stronger then Roshi, yet needed five minutes to blow up Namek, the same size of the Earth, with a chain reaction. So I guess I win.
> 
> They can only bust planets in DB.



Lol, there's no "I win" in this argument. DBZ destructive power is chosen to suit the current plot and cause drama and thrill, there is no real logic behind it.


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## Wuzzman (Oct 18, 2007)

Zaru said:


> Lol, there's no "I win" in this argument. DBZ destructive power is chosen to suit the current plot and cause drama and thrill, there is no real logic behind it.



explain it better then I did.


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

Zaru said:


> Lol, there's no "I win" in this argument. DBZ destructive power is chosen to suit the current plot and cause drama and thrill, there is no real logic behind it.



The difference in busting a planet and busting an entire solar system is billions power in energy output and power. It doesn't change the fact that Kid Buu/Gohan/Goku/Super Buu could never hope to bust more then individual planets.

You can't say "because drama is for this arc they have an inconsistency" so since their millions of times stronger then busting a moon, they can bust a solar system.


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## Zaru (Oct 18, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> You can't say "because drama is for this arc they have an inconsistency" so since their millions of times stronger then busting a moon, they can bust a solar system.



Read my posts. I said, multiple times, that we can assume they are able to do so, but they never showed it and thus it's not usable in this argument...


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

No you can't because your arugment doesn't make sense. Cell said his attack was going to blow up the entire solar system, not just the Earth when he became Super Perfect Cell after nearly dying. How come the duel between him and Gohan didn't destroy the Earth at minimum?

Because they can't bust solar systems. Otherwise the minimum energy from a solar system busting attack would destroy multiple planets easily.


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## Zaru (Oct 18, 2007)

It didn't because everyone would be dead and the manga over.


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

Which proves that no one in Dragonball has anywhere near the power to bust solar systems.


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## Zaru (Oct 18, 2007)

Goku teleports out of range until the sun crusher runs out of fuel or the pilots die. Saiyans live longer.

Saiyans win


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## Gig (Oct 18, 2007)

Zaru said:


> Goku teleports out of range until the sun crusher runs out of fuel or the pilots die. Saiyans live longer.
> 
> Saiyans win



Sun crusher goes and gets its fuel tank filed at the intergalactic petrol station and replaces its tired Pilot with an other fresh Pilot.


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

Goku tries to shoot Sun Crusher, it blows up the solar system. Every single star in the Earth's solar system goes super nova, DBverse goes bye.


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## Wesker (Oct 18, 2007)

Saiyans lose but not before inflicting severe damage on the empire via sneak attacks. I would go into the sun buster debate but I still have not completed the calculations on db attack power.


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Saiyans lose but not before inflicting severe damage on the empire via sneak attacks. I would go into the sun buster debate but I still have not completed the calculations on db attack power.



Or the Empire just blows up their solar system since none of the Sayians approach anywhere near the speed of light where as the Empire can cross an entire galaxy in the matter of hours.


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## Wesker (Oct 18, 2007)

Instant transmission ftw?


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## Sylar (Oct 18, 2007)

No.

Sun Crusher FTW.


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## Wesker (Oct 18, 2007)

I didn't mean that would let them win I was saying that he was wrong about none of the saiyans approaching the speed of light.


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

None of the Dragonball characters are faster then light.


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## Wesker (Oct 18, 2007)

What part of instant transmission do you not understand?


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

IT is teleportation, not speed. And it being an instanteous teleportation technique makes it instant, not FTL.


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## Wesker (Oct 18, 2007)

They still reach the location faster than light does.


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

That isn't speed. And Goku has never even fought at speeds approaching FTL. Remember when they were traveling toward the city to fight the Androids after the three year timeskip? Yeah, that wasn't anywhere near FTL.


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## Wesker (Oct 18, 2007)

If they get there instantly they still get there faster than the speed of light meaning they are faster than the empire thus goku can cause some mayhem before he gets found out.

And I never said he could go ftl without IT so why are you bringing up any instance where he has a speed feat without IT.?


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## C-Moon (Oct 18, 2007)

Sun Crusher. If the majority of the Saiyans are in one place like when Frieza attacked, then all it needs is one shot.


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## Wesker (Oct 18, 2007)

Yeah I know about the suncrusher and that is what the empire has that can win this. But I was just saying some saiyans cause some ahvoc and Goku destroys quite a few planets before he gets caught in a blast.


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## Wesker (Oct 18, 2007)

You know what lets just get a mod in here to lock it since no one here is arguing the saiyans can win for sure.


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## Fang (Oct 18, 2007)

This thread hurts my head. Sun Crusher is going to be the first thing the Empire sends after learning Goku and the others are planet busters. Although I'm curious how Goku is even going to get to a planet when the Empire can just interdict their slow ass ships and blast it apart and Goku simply dies of explosive decompression.


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## Gig (Oct 19, 2007)

Instant Transmission is useless he has never been to any where in the empire or met any one there to get a familiar Ki signature so he can use it to attack the empire.


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## TH4N4T0S (Oct 19, 2007)

The Empire? Including Palpatine? I'd go for the Empire. Palpatine can create Force Storms to warp the Saiyans to anywhere he wants. 

And . . . 



			
				Shiroi Kiba said:
			
		

> This thread hurts my head. Sun Crusher is going to be the first thing the Empire sends after learning Goku and the others are planet busters. Although I'm curious how Goku is even going to get to a planet when the Empire can just interdict their slow ass ships and blast it apart and Goku simply dies of explosive decompression.


 
The Sun Crusher is too much. It can destroy systems. Damn.


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## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

So I guess we are all in agreement that the Empire Wins?


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## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

The Sun Crusher can't kill anything without a star.  

Besides it's useless of the Saiyans commandeer a common hyperdrive capable ship.


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## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

Wait it needs a star to do damage? I thought it just had an attack powerful enough to destroy stars.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 19, 2007)

Wesley said:


> The Sun Crusher can't kill anything without a star.
> 
> Besides it's useless of the Saiyans commandeer a common hyperdrive capable ship.



Are you kidding me? Those monkeys arn't smart enough operate an interstellar star cruiser!

Once those monkeys hit a wrong button they'd go Berserk and break the damn thing.


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## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

................ Are you serious?


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## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Wesley said:


> The Sun Crusher can't kill anything without a star.
> 
> Besides it's useless of the Saiyans commandeer a common hyperdrive capable ship.



Every solar system has stars.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 19, 2007)

Planets form around Star. The only way for the Saiyens to escape the sun crusher is to sit in the middle of space in the pods which would make them sitting ducks Imperial Star Destroyers


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## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Wait it needs a star to do damage? I thought it just had an attack powerful enough to destroy stars.



They left that little dealie out eh?  It uses a resonance torpedo to make a star destroy itself.  Takes a couple hours for it to work too.

The Sun Crusher is also very small.  About the size of the Falcon.

Oh, yeah, every star system has a star.  Too bad every star system has a hyperdrive capable ship.  And sayians are at least as smart as humans.


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## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Wesley said:


> They left that little dealie out eh?  It uses a resonance torpedo to make a star destroy itself.  Takes a couple hours for it to work too.
> 
> The Sun Crusher is also very small.  About the size of the Falcon.
> 
> Oh, yeah, every star system has a star.  Too bad every star system has a hyperdrive capable ship.  And sayians are at least as smart as humans.



The Saiyans have nothing capable of going the speed of light.


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## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> The Saiyans have nothing capable of going the speed of light.



Who knows?  The Sun Crusher isn't capable.  Sublight it still takes a couple hours to reach a star from an Earthlike world.  That's pretty fast, but not even high c. fast.


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## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Wesley said:


> Who knows?  The Sun Crusher isn't capable.  Sublight it still takes a couple hours to reach a star from an Earthlike world.  That's pretty fast, but not even high c. fast.



Yeah that was how Kyp was hopping systems right? It has a hyperdive. And the funny thing was the Calduron Nebula was destroyed almost momentarily after the torp was fired into it's star.


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## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Yeah that was how Kyp was hopping systems right? It has a hyperdive. And the funny thing was the Calduron Nebula was destroyed almost momentarily after the torp was fired into it's star.



Must have been something wrong with the star.  The star at that one Imperial planet took a few hours since Kyp had enough time to shoot it, fly back to the planet, meet with the governor and his brother, before the star exploded.


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## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Wesley said:


> Must have been something wrong with the star.  The star at that one Imperial planet took a few hours since Kyp had enough time to shoot it, fly back to the planet, meet with the governor and his brother, before the star exploded.



And the stars in the Calduron Nebula almost instantly blew up. Either he can set it, or Anderson ret-conned it. Either matter, it doesn't always take an hour to blow up.


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## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Anyway, the Sun Crusher isn't a sure thing and is costly to use.  What else you got?


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## Zaru (Oct 19, 2007)

Costly to use? Does that affect the outcome?


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## strongarm85 (Oct 19, 2007)

The Death Star is a planet buster and actually strong enough to withstand its own attack. Basically only Vegeta and Goku have the power necessary to Destroy the Death Star from the outside and that would have to put a considerable amount of time and energy into the attack to do.


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## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Wesley said:


> Anyway, the Sun Crusher isn't a sure thing and is costly to use.  What else you got?



It is a sure thing because both times it fired it's torp, solar systems were taken out. And this is the fucking Empire, not the shitty Federation, they actually are quite wealthy. Excessively so.


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## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> It is a sure thing because both times it fired it's torp, solar systems were taken out. And this is the fucking Empire, not the shitty Federation, they actually are quite wealthy. Excessively so.



I meant it's not a sure as fair as killing Saiyans is concerned.  Due to all the hyperdrive capable ships available.  You might kill a star system with nothing but billions of people and capital lost to show for it.


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## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

This is the Empire, they will wipe out a dozen star systems if they have to to deal with several planet busters.


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## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

So you think only by blowing up stars could they deal with Saiyans.


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## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

The Death Star actually has more power then any of the Saiyans do. It can tank it's own shots. Regardless, the Empire curbstomps.


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## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Actually, that's not true at all.  Everytime a Death Star was destroyed it was due to it's own reactor exploding.  And it probably wouldn't take much to compromise the Death Star's ability to absorb the shock from firing it's own weapon.


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## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

Lol I will admit the sun crusher is more powerful than the saiyans but saying the deathstar is more powerful is just too much. There is no way the deathstar is more powerful than mystic gohan or ssj3 goku.


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## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Wesley said:


> Actually, that's not true at all.  Everytime a Death Star was destroyed it was due to it's own reactor exploding.  And it probably wouldn't take much to compromise the Death Star's ability to absorb the shock from firing it's own weapon.



Yeah because if it couldn't the foce of it's own superlaser would destroy it. Wong's calculations are already accurate on this. As well as the rest, if it couldn't, it would've been ripped apart by it's own firepower.



Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Lol I will admit the sun crusher is more powerful than the saiyans but saying the deathstar is more powerful is just too much. There is no way the deathstar is more powerful than mystic gohan or ssj3 goku.



The Death Star's superlaser was calculated at moving around 10 to 15% the speed of light, and instantly vaporized Aldaeeran. Freeza at 100% Full Power in his final form had to cause a chain reaction that needed over five minutes to destroy teh planet. And only Buu has shown the ability to completely vaporize planets.

And a non planet busting attack killed him.


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

Since when does a laser give off kinetic force that causes recoil? If anything the deathstar would be durable against heat energy due to the amount of heat the laser would give off.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Lol I will admit the sun crusher is more powerful than the saiyans but saying the deathstar is more powerful is just too much. There is no way the deathstar is more powerful than mystic gohan or ssj3 goku.



The Sun Crusher isn't more powerful than the Death Star.  It's just more technical.  Like something out of Star Trek.

The Death Star's Superlaser probably exceeds the energy output of every DBZ character put together.  Or not, it's hard to say just how powerful characters were later on due to lack of collateral damage.



Shiroi Kiba said:


> The Death Star's superlaser was calculated at moving around 10 to 15% the speed of light, and instantly vaporized Aldaeeran. Freeza at 100% Full Power in his final form had to cause a chain reaction that needed over five minutes to destroy teh planet. And only Buu has shown the ability to completely vaporize planets.
> 
> And a non planet busting attack killed him.



Freeza also blew up Planet Vegeta and it has ten times the gravitational force of Earth.  Blowing it up would have taken alot more energy than what would be needed to blow up earth.


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

..........Deathstar only destroyed a planet. There have been planet busters in dbz long before we got to majin buu. And your right I should have put that the sun crusher can cause more damage than the death star.


----------



## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> ..........Deathstar only destroyed a planet. There have been planet busters in dbz long before we got to majin buu. And your right I should have put that the sun crusher can cause more damage than the death star.



God damn it. Buu is the ONLY CHARACTER in DB to vaporize a planet! And the superlaser exerts kinetic force.


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

Just because he is the only one to show it does not mean he is the only one that can. Plus frieza blasted planet vegeta to hell in the bardock special. Plus him and majin buu were the only ones who made direct attacks against planets with the intent to destroy the planet that actually made contact.


----------



## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Jesus Christ....


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

Also what makes you say the laser exerts kinetic force?


----------



## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Because it's not a fucking laser for one....


----------



## Gig (Oct 19, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Because it's not a fucking laser for one....



Is it a huge plasma cannon like most star wars weapons.


----------



## strongarm85 (Oct 19, 2007)

Because its the laws physics. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Jesus Christ....



What?  He's got a point.  DBZ is inconsistent.  At face value, Super Saiyian is a costume change due to the fact that it never really eclipsed previous feats.  At face value, they were no more powerful at the end of the Saiyan Saga than they were at the end of the Buu Saga.

We _know_ they became hundreds, maybe thousands, of times more powerful because it's stated to be.  

DBZ feats suck and it's inconsistent.


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

> superlaser exerts kinetic force





> Because it's not a fucking laser for one....


So is it a superlaser or something else?


----------



## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> So is it a superlaser or something else?



In NAME only.

@Wesley, the feats are constant. Freeza at full power needed five minutes to create a chain reaction to blow up a planet. Someone who is millions of times stronger then Saiyajin Saga Vegeta.

Then Kid Buu blows up a planet instantly so that it is almost instantly vaporized on the spot. That's the difference of power. They can accomplish nothing more.

And by the way, the only persons stronger the Kid Buu are Super Buu, Chou Gohan and Vegito.

Goku, Vegeta are much weaker then him.


----------



## Gig (Oct 19, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> So is it a superlaser or something else?



I think it might be plasma based like the blasters though it could be some thing else can not be a laser because it makes things explode.


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

What is it if it is not a superlaser? Also dbz feats can be inconsistent. Take for example roshi blowing up the moon. Also frieza is not millions times more powerful than vegeta was. vegeta had a power level of 18k frieza was somewhere in the 12millions or so.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Forget it.  I'm not going to argue DBZ because I don't remember everything ever said in the appropiate context, although I doubt any of you here do.


----------



## Gig (Oct 19, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> What is it if it is not a superlaser? Also dbz feats can be inconsistent. Take for example roshi blowing up the moon. Also frieza is not millions times more powerful than vegeta was. vegeta had a power level of 18k frieza was somewhere in the 12millions or so.



Well I just read up on it on wookiepedia and it says it is a proton beam ( i have no idea what one is though it look like a laser yet it makes things explode)


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

I very rarely use wikipedia for debates anyone can change it pretty much. So anything it says can not be taken as proof. Besides even if it is not a laser if shiroi kiba does not know what it is then he has no basis for it producing kinetic kickback from it firing. Also there were 2 guys right by the beam when it fired and nothing happened.


----------



## strongarm85 (Oct 19, 2007)

Its Plasma, the 4th state of mater, like most Star Wars weapons. Man kind has only recently been able to create plasma on our own. Before then about the only place you could find plasma was on the surface of the star.


----------



## Gig (Oct 19, 2007)

strongarm85 said:


> Its Plasma, the 4th state of mater, like most Star Wars weapons. Man kind has only recently been able to create plasma on our own. Before then about the only place you could find plasma was on the surface of the star.



I knew it was plasma just like all star wars weapons that look like lasers.


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## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

Where is it stated that it is plasma?


----------



## Gig (Oct 19, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Where is it stated that it is plasma?



In one of the books I believe they get it from Bespin that's why the empire at first they are reluctant to attack it but then seize it when they get the chance during the empire strikes back.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Plasma is one of those sci-fi terms that's used even when it's obviously not real plasma.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 19, 2007)

Wesley said:


> Plasma is one of those sci-fi terms that's used even when it's obviously not real plasma.



Just like lasers.


----------



## strongarm85 (Oct 19, 2007)

Empire. The actual ammunition is "Tabana Gas" which is harvested from certain Gas Giant planets with gravity low enough to sustain a floating city, such as Bespin. There are others also.


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## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

Ok then. Gas would cause recoil but the individual "beams" before they met up were not causing that much recoil unless there were dampeners due to those 2 guys not being blown apart when the beam fired by them. Hmmm I guess it depends on what makes the gas shoot out. What is used to make the gas fire?


----------



## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Just like lasers.



And phasers.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 19, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> And phasers.



Add frequencies to the list also.

Anyways, here's the  page from SDN.  That should help somewhat.


----------



## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Here as well for the nature and range of fire power for Star Wars/GE ships/Death Stars.


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

So is there anyone here who is suggesting that Saiyans win? If so please state why you think so. Your link isn't really a link. You might want to try it again.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Sure, Saiyans could win.  Just one low class warrior was expected to wipe out an entire planet.  With the whole race I'm sure they could do alot of damage to the Empire.


----------



## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Until the Deat Star shoots them from a couple hundred thousand kilometers and kills them all. End of thread.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Until the Deat Star shoots them from a couple hundred thousand kilometers and kills them all. End of thread.



They'd have to find the Hyperdrive route to Planet Vegeta first.  

Besides I doubt they'd all be on the home planet with a war to wage on a galaxy.


----------



## strongarm85 (Oct 19, 2007)

This battle was easily decided as soon as the OP allowed the Empire to use its Super Weapons. If you took those away it would be a little more fair, not much, but a little.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

strongarm85 said:


> This battle was easily decided as soon as the OP allowed the Empire to use its Super Weapons. If you took those away it would be a little more fair, not much, but a little.



Not really because those weapons are horrible overkill against one member of an entire race.


----------



## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Wesley said:


> They'd have to find the Hyperdrive route to Planet Vegeta first.
> 
> Besides I doubt they'd all be on the home planet with a war to wage on a galaxy.



Empire wins, Trekkie.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Empire wins, Trekkie.



Warsie.  

Actually my passion for Star Wars at it's height easily trumped my feelings for Trek.  

I do wish you'd just stop ignoring everything I say though.

Come to think of it, the whole Empire goes down if only a few key planets are taken out.  Like Coruscant and Kaut, among others.


----------



## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Wesley said:


> Warsie.
> 
> Actually my passion for Star Wars at it's height easily trumped my feelings for Trek.
> 
> ...



Not really, since your taking about an empire that spands several million worlds. And it's not like the Sayians have any FTL ships or know how to navigate against a galaxy wide empire. 

And your no Warsie.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

I'm a lapsed Warsie.  How else did I call bullshit on your mispresentation of the Sun Crusher?

And absolutely there are important worlds in Star Wars.  Losing them would deal a harsh blow to the Empire.

Saiyan pods travel ftl.  I don't know how fast, but they do.  It's not even their original technology.  It was stolen from the Plant people after they were wiped out.

Steal hyperdrive and boom, saiyans all over the galaxy wiping out populations.


----------



## Superrazien (Oct 19, 2007)

I get kind of ticked off how manga always has to stick with the exact canon, but bull like the Star Wars EU, and stuff from Marvel and DC get away with it. Example is like Superman, there is like 20 different versions of him all made by different people, but each one is canon but the excuse is DC owns it. But it is igorned that the manga artist sold there ideas to Shonen Jump who then sell it to anime companies like Toei, and unless the manga artist really objects to something I don't see why movies and such can't be considered canon. If your useing for DBZ " cause it doesn't make sense with the series ect.." Toriyama said himself he made the DBZ story so it could be unconventional and contradictory.

As for the fight, the only thing that seems to be keeping Star Wars alive is the Sun Crusher. 5o can anyone actually provide proof on what it can do.


----------



## Estrecca (Oct 19, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Not really, since your taking about an empire that spands several million worlds. And it's not like the Sayians have any FTL ships or know how to navigate against a galaxy wide empire.



The Empire is, like the Galactic Republic, a very fragile power. Losing Coruscant would result in rampant warlordism for whole years, even if Palpatine himself survives the destruction.

Imperial Center is both a symbol and the place of residence of the upper echelons of galactic society. If there is no oversight from the central authority, then going rogue becomes a much more attractive scenario for all those power-hungry Moffs that Palpatine handpicked to ensure that the Empire would not survive his own death.

If Palpatine actually dies, clone bodies or not clone bodies, then the odds for the Saiyans become much, much better, because no Imperial warlord is going to risk going after them when there is far easier prey to catch and Palpatine will need years to regain his strength in Byss (which is the reason for the whole "let's hide for the best part of a decade" prior to Dark Empire).


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Superrazien said:


> As for the fight, the only thing that seems to be keeping Star Wars alive is the Sun Crusher. 5o can anyone actually provide proof on what it can do.



It has about a dozen torpedoes that are specifically created to make stars explode.  They're not really any good against anything other than stars.  The Sun Crusher is about the size of the Millenium Falcon, has armor that's described as "indestructible", and has a top speed of about .1 c. at sublight.

It's not really good for taking on Saiyans.


----------



## Superrazien (Oct 19, 2007)

Wesley said:


> It has about a dozen torpedoes that are specifically created to make stars explode.  They're not really any good against anything other than stars.  The Sun Crusher is about the size of the Millenium Falcon, has armor that's described as "indestructible", and has a top speed of about .1 c. at sublight.
> 
> It's not really good for taking on Saiyans.



You saying stuff isn't proof. Provide scans.

Also I love everyone getting all scientific with the star wars universe, because according to Star Wars there is air in space, hence the sound. Oh and you can make like solid.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Superrazien said:


> You saying stuff isn't proof. Provide scans.
> 
> Also I love everyone getting all scientific with the star wars universe, because according to Star Wars there is air in space, hence the sound. Oh and you can make like solid.



There are no scans.  What I'm saying is from memories of a novel I read 8 or so years ago.  I've also got a technical manual on hand, but it doesn't really give details as to the Sun Crusher's performance or limitations.


----------



## Ippy (Oct 19, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> It looked like they were in space to me.


It is possible to be in the upper areas of an atmosphere, like the stratosphere and thermosphere's of Earth, but appear to be in space when viewed from certain angles.


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

Possible but they were all floating around so I am inclined to say they were in space more than likely.


----------



## strongarm85 (Oct 19, 2007)

Estrecca said:


> The Empire is, like the Galactic Republic, a very fragile power. Losing Coruscant would result in rampant warlordism for whole years, even if Palpatine himself survives the destruction.
> 
> Imperial Center is both a symbol and the place of residence of the upper echelons of galactic society. If there is no oversight from the central authority, then going rogue becomes a much more attractive scenario for all those power-hungry Moffs that Palpatine handpicked to ensure that the Empire would not survive his own death.
> 
> If Palpatine actually dies, clone bodies or not clone bodies, then the odds for the Saiyans become much, much better, because no Imperial warlord is going to risk going after them when there is far easier prey to catch and Palpatine will need years to regain his strength in Byss (which is the reason for the whole "let's hide for the best part of a decade" prior to Dark Empire).



And thats is why Coruscant is completely covered with Planetary Shields. If The Saiyens try to land their pods on Coruscant they'd hit the planetary shields, likely survive the crash, but stuck outside the shield they'd be completely exposed to space and die before ever reaching the planet.


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

Goku can IT to where surviving saiyans are and do a mega ki blast. How strong are the shields? Also do the people under the rule of the empire actually like the empire? Because if not then Goku can possibly convince the populace to help him make a HUGE spirit bomb.


----------



## Ippy (Oct 19, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Possible but they were all floating around so I am inclined to say they were in space more than likely.


But if it's known that Saiyajins can't survive in vacuums, and that it's possible to be in upper layers of an atmosphere while seemingly being somewhere in space, your claim is completely unsubstantiated.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

strongarm85 said:


> And thats is why Coruscant is completely covered with Planetary Shields. If The Saiyens try to land their pods on Coruscant they'd hit the planetary shields, likely survive the crash, but stuck outside the shield they'd be completely exposed to space and die before ever reaching the planet.



That's why they'd use commandered Star Destroyers or whatever.


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

Haterade how is it known that saiyans can't survive in vacuums? Where was it stated? Feel free to answer because I am not entirely sure if that was stated or not.


----------



## strongarm85 (Oct 19, 2007)

But they're not smart enough to commandeer Star Destroyers, and even if they where the planetary Turbo Lasers and Ion Cannons on Coruscant would blow them out of the sky.


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

What makes you say they are not smart enough? They seem as intelligent as humans at least. Also you still have the fact that Goku can IT to the saiyan pods right outside of the shields and do a super ki blast.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

A siege against Coruscant would be as effective as it was in the movies.  

Still retarded how it lost in the New Jedi Order though.


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

Do yall think the regular people who live under the rule of the empire would help the saiyans? I mean like donating their energy to form a really big spirit bomb.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Do yall think the regular people who live under the rule of the empire would help the saiyans? I mean like donating their energy to form a really big spirit bomb.



Who knows?  I imagine the Saiyans taking slaves as needed.


----------



## strongarm85 (Oct 19, 2007)

The Saiyens are ruthless killers who in general care little of their own race and nothing for those not of their race. You'd probably get a group like the Peace Brigade running around trying to befriend the Saiyens by taking their side of the war, but a Peace Brigade type force would be minimal and probably no better outfitted than a large pirate group.


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

You forget that goku and gohan DO care about others and they are the most powerful so they would be the leaders.


----------



## strongarm85 (Oct 19, 2007)

No Vegita would be the leader...


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

Possibly. Probably all 3 would lead.


----------



## Ippy (Oct 19, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Haterade how is it known that saiyans can't survive in vacuums? Where was it stated? Feel free to answer because I am not entirely sure if that was stated or not.


The fact that Goku was scared at the thought of still being on Namek when Frieza wanted to destroy it, even though he would more than likely survive the blast, but would be left in a... vacuum. 

The fact that Goku wore a space suit while making repairs to his ship, on his way towards Namek, in the first place(I'm not quite sure if that's anime filler or not, though).


----------



## strongarm85 (Oct 19, 2007)

No probably to it. Either King Vegita or Prince Vegita would lead, no two ways about it. The other saiyens wouldn't follow Goku and they sure wouldn't follow a half-breed like Gohan.


----------



## Wesker (Oct 19, 2007)

True. But Vegeta isn't exactly uncaring at the end of the manga. Thanks for clearing that up though Haterade.


----------



## reddogs52 (Oct 19, 2007)

*?*



Shiroi Kiba said:


> His not going to teleport into a starfighter that moves a couple thousand times faster then him. Nor can he get through the shields or diamond armor that can shunt on radiation and energy released from multiple supernova's Zaru.



I am reading over this and laughing! for one instant transmition makes goku move at a speed of 180 thousand miles per hour or something like that xD stated by him,second ummmmmm....ss4 goku and vegeta, freaking ss3 gotanks freaking max potential gohan freaking that right there they can just combine a massive attack like a mega super kamehameha that would destroy the universe considering a super sayan 3(gotanks) made a worm hole in the hyper bolic time chamber xD

listen the saiyans beat anything no one should ever even do a who would win this or sayans because sayans win always!


ALWAYS!!


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2007)

^ That gentlemen is known as a parody, and a rather poor one at that.


----------



## Sylar (Oct 20, 2007)

reddogs52 said:


> I am reading over this and laughing! for one instant transmition makes goku move at a speed of 180 thousand miles per hour or something like that xD stated by him,second ummmmmm....ss4 goku and vegeta, freaking ss3 gotanks freaking max potential gohan freaking that right there they can just combine a massive attack like a mega super kamehameha that would destroy the universe considering a super sayan 3(gotanks) made a worm hole in the hyper bolic time chamber xD
> 
> listen the saiyans beat anything no one should ever even do a who would win this or sayans because sayans win always!
> 
> ...


----------



## reddogs52 (Oct 20, 2007)

*impossible*



Xellos Metallium said:


> The sun crushers is Hundreds of times the speed of light it would make the nearest sun go nova and Hulk is dead unless he has a feat where he survives a super nova that is.



I dont know who told you that that sun crusher thing is hundreds of times faster then the speed of light but anything traveling AT speed of light basicly is stoping time in a sense but going faster then speed of light warps things around you if you hit them so everything you hit would be a nucleor explosion but then if your going hundreds of times faster then your creating antimatter and then you dont exist anymore

so the sun crusher doesnt exist then is what everyone who is saying the sun crusher is faster then light 

listen and listen well!! Goku and vegeta fuse ssj4 and they do a big bang kamehameha x100 at the central control of the empire  and fight is over lol oh but wait the fusion lasts 15 minutes so that takes about 1 minute then gogeta could instant transmission everywhere and pick off everything left

yeah you guys dont even know what the dbz verse is capable of and you start talking about your nerdy as hell star wars that crap is garbage and is impossible! First off when Goku comes back to earth and meets trunks he tells them how he survived and how he met this one race of ppl who tought him instant transmission then he explained what it does(it transfers his molecules at over 180 thousand miles per hour to anywher ehe wants) Then if you remember gotanks yelled and a worm hole was created to get out of the diffrent dimension they were in(hyperbolic time chamber)


----------



## Superrazien (Oct 20, 2007)

I really don't why Goku can't IT in the Sun Crusher and kill everyone inside. Hell he could IT anyone he wants in there.


----------



## Jeff (Oct 20, 2007)

Well the Empire is large, and even after the "loss" of the Emperor, Darth Vader, and the Second Death Star it retained a decent amount of power and wealth to continue to harass the New Republic.

However, the Saiyans are fast and courageous, and likely well versed in space combat.  I'd say the Saiyans would pull a fast one.  I mean what is Darth Vader gonna do, deflect ki blasts with his lightsaber?


----------



## konflikti (Oct 20, 2007)

reddogs52 said:


> I dont know who told you that that sun crusher thing is hundreds of times faster then the speed of light but anything traveling AT speed of light basicly is stoping time in a sense but going faster then speed of light warps things around you if you hit them so everything you hit would be a nucleor explosion but then if your going hundreds of times faster then your creating antimatter and then you dont exist anymore
> 
> so the sun crusher doesnt exist then is what everyone who is saying the sun crusher is faster then light
> 
> ...


----------



## SSJKrillin (Oct 20, 2007)

Haterade said:


> The fact that Goku was scared at the thought of still being on Namek when Frieza wanted to destroy it, even though he would more than likely survive the blast, but would be left in a... vacuum.
> 
> The fact that Goku wore a space suit while making repairs to his ship, on his way towards Namek, in the first place(I'm not quite sure if that's anime filler or not, though).



Repairs was filler. 
in DB Goku went to the moon on his power pole without a space suit. Also in Bardock special, Bardock was shown in space without a space suit.

Saiyans have this one. Vegeta, Goku, Gohan, Goten, Trunks. They can destroy planets with little effort. Brolly is overkill (and he has been shown to be able to survive in space).


----------



## Ippy (Oct 20, 2007)

reddogs52 said:


> I am reading over this and laughing! for one instant transmition makes goku move at a speed of 180 thousand miles per hour or something like that xD stated by him,second ummmmmm....ss4 goku and vegeta, freaking ss3 gotanks freaking max potential gohan freaking that right there they can just combine a massive attack like a mega super kamehameha that would destroy the universe considering a super sayan 3(gotanks) made a worm hole in the hyper bolic time chamber xD
> 
> listen the saiyans beat anything no one should ever even do a who would win this or sayans because sayans win always!
> 
> ...


I disagree. 

There are quite a few characters that could solo all of the known Saiyajins in DB, including, but not limited to, Giorno Giovanna, Dr. Strange, Dark Schneider, Belzeebub, Uriel, Z, etc...



SSJKrillin said:


> Saiyans have this one. Vegeta, Goku, Gohan, Goten, Trunks. *They can destroy planets with little effort.* Brolly is overkill (and he has been shown to be able to survive in space).


This point has already been addressed multiple times in this thread.


----------



## Blue (Oct 20, 2007)

(sigh) The Sun Crusher masturbation in this thread makes Chibi Blue cry. 

First of all, there is only one Sun Crusher. With, as Wesley noted, about 12 of its namesakes loaded on board. 12 popped stars max, with no chance of reloading in any reasonable timeframe. How many Saiyans are there?

Second, _nobody in the Empire knows it exists_. Moff Tarkin was the only one, and he got wtfpwned with the first Death Star. It's a non-factor.

Third, the Empire would never use it on a populated system. 
"Hay guys, if there's a Saiyan on your planet, call us and we'll come BLOW YOU THE FUCK UP."
More than two or three of those and the Galaxy will waste the Empire itself and the Saiyans can sit back.

I suggest those of you wanting SW to win start down the force path.


----------



## SSJKrillin (Oct 20, 2007)

Haterade said:


> This point has already been addressed multiple times in this thread.



im not really interested in browsing through the 15 other pages to find the argument. but im assuming that there are some people who think that the saiyans cannot destroy a planet easily despite:
-roshi, piccolo
-frieza on namek (read what he says)
- Vegeta vs android 18 (i always bring this up. it is the best proof of saiyans being strong enough to destroy planets, but people convienently keep forgetting to dispute it, and rather just ignore it)
- Buu!


----------



## Fang (Oct 20, 2007)

Goku isn't going to get into the Sun Crusher with IT.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 20, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Goku isn't going to get into the Sun Crusher with IT.



Yeah, because the shields it doesn't have would stop it.


----------



## Fang (Oct 20, 2007)

It's molecular armor would, stop lying Wesley.


----------



## Gig (Oct 20, 2007)

No because Goku would be teleporting in to a solid mass and die from it because there is not enough room for Goku to IT into the sun crusher.


----------



## Blue (Oct 20, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Goku isn't going to get into the Sun Crusher with IT.


We're done with the Sun Crusher.


> No because Goku would be teleporting in to a solid mass and die from it because there is not enough room for Goku to IT into the sun crusher.


Yes there freaking is. Kyp tried to rescue his brother.


----------



## Fang (Oct 20, 2007)

And failed and his brother was incinerated by the star system going bye bye.


----------



## Superrazien (Oct 20, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Goku isn't going to get into the Sun Crusher with IT.



Oh so he can IT to another Dimension but he cant get into an object right in front of him.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 20, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> And failed and his brother was incinerated by the star system going bye bye.



That's true but not the point he was making.  The fact that Kyp, Han, and a big wookie could fit inside says alot.


----------



## Fang (Oct 20, 2007)

Han and Kyp barely fitted into the cockpit for one.


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## Dark Ascendant (Oct 20, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Han and Kyp barely fitted into the cockpit for one.



So? Goku's smaller than Han Solo.


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## Fang (Oct 20, 2007)

Goku is a foot taller then Han at minimum.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Oct 20, 2007)

So the Sun Crusher is completely solid and moves at multiples of light speed while firing? Does that make no sense at all or is it just me?


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## Fang (Oct 20, 2007)

What? You have no idea of what your talking about. Hyperspace allows a ship to travel millions of times the speed of light. Cross one end of the galaxy from the far outer rim to the core worlds is literally half a galaxy and that is accomplished in relative time in less then a few hours.

It's faster then any of the Z-Senshi easily without having to use its hyperdrive.


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## Blue (Oct 21, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Goku is a foot taller then Han at minimum.


Han Solo is 4 foot 4 inches?


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Oct 21, 2007)

Wouldn't it have to stop to fire though? I don't get how you can't get inside of it either because a shield shouldn't stop teleportation.


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## Fang (Oct 21, 2007)

No it wouldn't, as it doesn't fire while in hyperspace.


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## Superrazien (Oct 21, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> What? You have no idea of what your talking about. Hyperspace allows a ship to travel millions of times the speed of light. Cross one end of the galaxy from the far outer rim to the core worlds is literally half a galaxy and that is accomplished in relative time in less then a few hours.
> 
> It's faster then any of the Z-Senshi easily without having to use its hyperdrive.



Or it could just be a worm hole they go through at high speed.


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## Fang (Oct 21, 2007)

The wormhole is an effect of light eloganting around the ship when it goes faster then light with the hyperdrive but not a literal one.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 21, 2007)

I had an interesting thought. Lets say that the Death Star was parked outside Planet Vegita. And the Saiyens looked up in the sky and saw it. Would that count as the Saiyens looking at the full moon and turn them all into Ozuuro?

Saiyens cannot survive in space without being in a space ship. 

The empire does not need the Sun crusher to win. It only needs the Death Star to win. 99% of the Saiyens how there wont have the ability to make an energy blast powerful enough to take down a Star Destroyer. To destroy the Death Star would require a planet buster attack at the very least to destroy it from the outside. Goku cannot use Instant Transmission against the Empire because using it requires that Goku be familiar with someone's Ki. Which means he can only IT to people he's met before, which means the Death Star would be safe.

The only Saiyens who have enough power to destroy the Death Star from the outside and those would be Super Saiyen 3 Goku, Brolly, and Mystic Gohan.

Most of the Saiyens are fodder, If a Saiyen shows up in a major city the Empire would park a Star Destroyer in Orbit, point all their guns forward, and vaporize everything within a 2 square kilometer area with a single timed volly of Turbo Laser fire. That alone would be enough wipe out all the Saiyens weaker than Nappa, who was an elite.


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## Wesker (Oct 21, 2007)

They can't beat the saiyans with just the deathstar....


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## Superrazien (Oct 21, 2007)

Cant all the Saiyans just shoot multiple blasts all around the death star and hit the 2 meter size hole that leads to its destruction. Hell I bet King Kai could tell Goku about that.


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## Wesker (Oct 21, 2007)

Indeed they can.


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## Yupi (Oct 21, 2007)

What about the Centrepoint Station based at Correlia? That thing could send gravity waves to instantly destroy stars in other solar systems.

Also, if Palpatine was truly a Sith Lord, wouldn't he have some way of making a Force Harvester? No living beings could get near that thing without dying.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 21, 2007)

Superrazien said:


> Cant all the Saiyans just shoot multiple blasts all around the death star and hit the 2 meter size hole that leads to its destruction. Hell I bet King Kai could tell Goku about that.



No, that wouldn't work. The 2 meter wide exhaust shaft that traveled down several miles to the Death Star's main reactor. Said Ki blast would need to travel into the whole and then down a several mile long shaft to actually hit the death star and cause it to expload. Hitting the mine shaft on accident would not work. A Saiyen would have to physically to the shaft and fire down in to destroy the Death Star, The saiyens can't do that. That is why the Death Star would solo them.


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## Wesker (Oct 21, 2007)

What makes you say they can't do that? All they have to do is get close enough and fire a ki blast down there. Also the higher level saiyans can just fire a planet buster at it and then no more deathstar.


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## Wesley (Oct 21, 2007)

Or they could fly into a hanger mess shit up from the inside out.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 21, 2007)

Yupi said:


> What about the Centrepoint Station based at Correlia? That thing could send gravity waves to instantly destroy stars in other solar systems.
> 
> Also, if Palpatine was truly a Sith Lord, wouldn't he have some way of making a Force Harvester? No living beings could get near that thing without dying.



Center point station predates the Galatic Republic by several milinea. In fact before they figured out what it was, a lot of people just assumed it was another planet. The only person who could ever control Center Point Station was Anakin Solo, who was never part of the Empire so Centerpoint Station is Out.

A Nappa level Saiyen could probably Destroy a Force Harvester without ever getting near it after charging up a massive amount of energy first.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 21, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> What makes you say they can't do that? All they have to do is get close enough and fire a ki blast down there. Also the higher level saiyans can just fire a planet buster at it and then no more deathstar.



To get close enough they would have be at the end of the Death Star Trench. A TIE Fighter has enough fire power to destroy a Saiyen pod killing the saiyen inside when they are exposed to space and there are more TIE fighters in the death star than there are Saiyens to throw their lives away trying to destroy the Death Star.

The problem with destroying the Death Star with a planet buster is the fact that laws phsyics say that the Death Star can tank a Planet Buster. Energy blasts also become less and less effectivly the further they have to travel. The Range on the Death Star is tens of thousands of Kilometers away, any "Planet Buster" attack fired at the death Star would loose power before it ever hit and not connect at full force. Only 3 Saiyens are powerful enough to threaten the Death Star, they are Super Saiyen 3 Goku, Legendary Brolly, and Mystic Gohan, just like I said a few post ago which you completly missed



Wesley said:


> Or they could fly into a hanger mess shit up from the inside out.



Doing that is a Suicide mission. Little known fact, the only thinking keeping the air inside the docking bay is magnetic field, shut it off and all the air is sucked out of the docking bay everything in there, including the Saiyens, die.  Not only that, but controllers have the ability to let the air out of any chamber within the Death Star making it no different than being in space. Quite literally, the Empire allowed everyone to escape the Death Star. They could have killed them at any time if they wanted to.


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## Superrazien (Oct 21, 2007)

strongarm85 said:


> No, that wouldn't work. The 2 meter wide exhaust shaft that traveled down several miles to the Death Star's main reactor. Said Ki blast would need to travel into the whole and then down a several mile long shaft to actually hit the death star and cause it to expload. Hitting the mine shaft on accident would not work. A Saiyen would have to physically to the shaft and fire down in to destroy the Death Star, The saiyens can't do that. That is why the Death Star would solo them.



Death Star Solos? Lol so what are the going to do when Goku IT in the death star with Vegeta and blows everything up?


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## Wesley (Oct 21, 2007)

Saiyans wear spacesuits.  They win.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 21, 2007)

Superrazien said:


> Death Star Solos? Lol so what are the going to do when Goku IT in the death star with Vegeta and blows everything up?



Yeah, only Goku can't do that. He has to know the person he's using IT to get to, sense their Ki, and then travel to them. Goku doesn't know anyone from Star Wars verse. The only way he could ever use IT to get on is if they captured Gohan for instance where holding him in a detention Cell, which probably wouldn't happen.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 21, 2007)

Wesley said:


> Saiyans wear spacesuits.  They win.



As slow as the Death Star is sub lite, it is capable of teveling in Hyperspace.

Any Saiyens treveling in space suits are going to be noticed before they get close enough to attack. All the Death Star has to do is Micro jump through hyperspace a hundred thousand kilometers and most of those Saiyens would run out of energy before they managed to close in again and then the Death Star would just move again.


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## Yupi (Oct 21, 2007)

strongarm85 said:


> Center point station predates the Galatic Republic by several milinea. In fact before they figured out what it was, a lot of people just assumed it was another planet. The only person who could ever control Center Point Station was Anakin Solo, who was never part of the Empire so Centerpoint Station is Out.
> 
> A Nappa level Saiyen could probably Destroy a Force Harvester without ever getting near it after charging up a massive amount of energy first.


 Good points. 

I only included Centerpoint Station because Thrackan Sal Solo used it to blow up a star even before Anakin even came to Corellia, and I made the assumption that since Corellia was at some point a part of the Empire, it could be used (especially since Thrackan Sal was a supporter of many of the Empire's policies). But the Empire obviously never found out about it, so it is out.

And your comments about the Force Harvester speak for themself.


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## Wesley (Oct 21, 2007)

strongarm85 said:


> As slow as the Death Star is sub lite, it is capable of teveling in Hyperspace.
> 
> Any Saiyens treveling in space suits are going to be noticed before they get close enough to attack. All the Death Star has to do is Micro jump through hyperspace a hundred thousand kilometers and most of those Saiyens would run out of energy before they managed to close in again and then the Death Star would just move again.



There is absolutely no indication that Star Wars sensors are that good.  Heck, they couldn't find the Millenium Falcon despite being literally attached to them.

There's also no indication that the Death Star is even capable of a micro-jump.  It's an entirely different beast from little freighters and starfighters.


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## Superrazien (Oct 21, 2007)

strongarm85 said:


> Yeah, only Goku can't do that. He has to know the person he's using IT to get to, sense their Ki, and then travel to them. Goku doesn't know anyone from Star Wars verse. The only way he could ever use IT to get on is if they captured Gohan for instance where holding him in a detention Cell, which probably wouldn't happen.



No Goku just has to sense Ki, or life force. Since the death star is full of people, which is in turn full of life force it wont be hard at all to IT into it. But even if he can't in the extremely unlikely fashion he can just bust a whole in it. 

Or Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Goten, and Trunks. Power up to there max and scream at the top of there lungs, rip open another dimension and blast the death star into it. Since everyone seems to think this battle is taking place in the SW universe, Science says they can breath in space since there is sound in space there is air.


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## Wesker (Oct 21, 2007)

Actually there does not need to be air. Sound only needs a medium to travel through. So just because there is sound does not mean there is air.


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## Fang (Oct 21, 2007)

Wesley said:


> Saiyans wear spacesuits.  They win.



Yeah, when the Death Star comes cruising, their first thought is to strap on space suits and cover several hundred thousands of kilometers before it blows up the planet and they die of explosive decompression.

No.


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## Wesley (Oct 21, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Yeah, when the Death Star comes cruising, their first thought is to strap on space suits and cover several hundred thousands of kilometers before it blows up the planet and they die of explosive decompression.
> 
> No.



They wouldn't need to travel hundreds of thousands of kilometers.

I don't see why spacesuits wouldn't be standard attire for Saiyans anyway.


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## Fang (Oct 21, 2007)

Wesley said:


> They wouldn't need to travel hundreds of thousands of kilometers.
> 
> I don't see why spacesuits wouldn't be standard attire for Saiyans anyway.



Bardock Special disagrees with you.


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## Wesker (Oct 21, 2007)

Why would they need space suits when they can just fire powerful planet busters at it and destroy it?


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## Wesley (Oct 21, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Bardock Special disagrees with you.



What's that supposed to mean?  You're the one keeps saying Saiyans lose due to vacuum, when that is easily countered.


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## Fang (Oct 21, 2007)

Because ki blasts like Gohan's faded out a few hundred miles where the Death Star could fire on it from like Venus or Jupiter at the Earth. Which Ki blasts definetly don't come close into range.

@Wesley, their first thought has never been to do such a thing since they always expect to fight on the planet. It's that fucking simple.


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## Kilala12 (Oct 21, 2007)

so, what r yoll talkin about"


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## Kilala12 (Oct 21, 2007)

So... WHAT r yoll talkin about"


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## Wesley (Oct 21, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Because ki blasts like Gohan's faded out a few hundred miles where the Death Star could fire on it from like Venus or Jupiter at the Earth. Which Ki blasts definetly don't come close into range.



Lol.  Yeah, sure.  Venus or Jupiter.  

Ki blasts traveled through planets and further than the moon.


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## Wesker (Oct 21, 2007)

Yet a final flash went much further than a few hundred miles. not to mention the fact they dont have to fire a beam they could do one of the blasts that is like a bomb. Also why are you acting like the empire starts out with the deathstar right in range of the planet vegeta at the beginning of the battle before saiyans even know what is going on?


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## Fang (Oct 21, 2007)

Wesley said:


> Lol.  Yeah, sure.  Venus or Jupiter.
> 
> Ki blasts traveled through planets and further than the moon.



Yeah once, oh wait that happend with just Roshi busting the moon. And never happened ever again nor came close to. Calcs already put the Death Star having far greater range then anything that DB characters could ever hope to dream of touching. Just stop with the DB wank.


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## Wesker (Oct 21, 2007)

What calculations are you talking about?


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## Wesley (Oct 21, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Yeah once, oh wait that happend with just Roshi busting the moon. And never happened ever again nor came close to. Calcs already put the Death Star having far greater range then anything that DB characters could ever hope to dream of touching. Just stop with the DB wank.



Funny how the fleet at Endor moved out of the Death Star's range.


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## Wesker (Oct 21, 2007)

I know lol. pos reps


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## Superrazien (Oct 21, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Because ki blasts like Gohan's faded out a few hundred miles where the Death Star could fire on it from like Venus or Jupiter at the Earth. Which Ki blasts definetly don't come close into range.
> 
> @Wesley, their first thought has never been to do such a thing since they always expect to fight on the planet. It's that fucking simple.



I don't know if you noticed this but Gohan is a good guy. He has no reason to keep his blasts going out of planet risking other planets.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 21, 2007)

Wesley said:


> Funny how the fleet at Endor moved out of the Death Star's range.



ECM jamming, maybe?



> Jamming
> 
> All Imperial starships, including the smallest one-man fighters, incorporate sensor jamming equipment. According to SWICS, advanced TIE fighters employ sophisticated sensor suites that "must overcome the extremely powerful jamming signals used by all combat craft". The DS also employed "hundreds of Kuat Drive Yards 220-SIG tactical jammers" that prevented the attacking X-Wings from being able to use their onboard sensors (ref. SWEGWT). And of course, the Imperial fleet broadcast so much sensor interference during the Battle of Endor that the Rebel fleet was unable to determine whether the DS2 shield was up or down until they destroyed the fleet's primary communications ship (ref. ROTJ novelization).
> 
> ...


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