# Forget Itachi, Kabuto's the biggest failure in this war



## αce (Jun 27, 2012)

Seriously this guy is a gigantic failure. He summons Itachi and then loses control of him. He tells Tobi there's no flaw to this technique (he doesn't know his jutsu's own flaws), and then we figure out Madara was gonna play him like a chump eventually, meaning that he would have become powerless in the end. It was only a matter of time. He lost Nagato, his other Edo's aren't that strong (Deidara got captured, Sasori died) and Madara was gonna ditch him sooner or later.


*Spoiler*: __ 








Not to mention that Itachi solo'd him in a genjutsu loop because he thinks he's Orochimaru and he's at Sasuke's mercy now.






How anyone thought this guy was a final villain candidate is beyond my understanding. He might not die now, but he may as well. He'd lose to bloodlusted Sasuke as far as I'm concerned.

Apparently Uchiha's>Edo Tensei







edit: Sigh. To all you idiots thinking I like Itachi, just leave the thread now.


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## Last Rose of Summer (Jun 27, 2012)

PIS is powerful.

Kabuto should have just ended ET once he saw Itachi and Sasuke and then he could have proceeded with his attempt to gain Sasuke's body or whatever. 

Way better to go down in fight (or win), than the humilitation he suffered.


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## Orochibuto (Jun 27, 2012)

Trying to desesperately shift the failure-o-meter on Kabuto to hide Itachi's OP? . Okay first a respost:



Orochibuto said:


> Okay, here is how I see it:
> 
> While its obvious its poking at the bear, this thread is the result of the endless "Lol, Itachi soloed, the war" "The King saved the word!" and now you are trying to counter it with "Haha, of course he wasnt going to solo the war".
> 
> ...



*This, basically refer to you and your kind.* As you could see I was going to abstain from joining the "Itachi failed lol" post crew (since enough people were there already and I just had to lol) but now I will have so much fun rubbing it into the fans face. Ergo, Itachi is hated because of people like you, now to disarm the post itself.



♠Ace♠ said:


> Seriously this guy is a gigantic failure. He summons Itachi and then loses control of him. He tells Tobi there's no flaw to this technique (he doesn't know his jutsu's own flaws), and then we figure out Madara was gonna play him like a chump eventually, meaning that he would have become powerless in the end. It was only a matter of time. He lost Nagato, his other Edo's aren't that strong (Deidara got captured, Sasori died) and Madara was gonna ditch him sooner or later.



You obviously ignored Madara had to wait for ET to be released, the only time where it has been stated edos have complete control, you also ignore edos cant take actions against the technique, otherwise their bodies wouldnt respond, refer to "Why Tobirama didnt free himself?" edos cant take actions against the technique, so no I dont see how could Madara "ditch him" if he had to wait for the technique to be relesaded.

Dont come with the "Madara is so badass that he was just trolling" because that would be the most stupid shit ever, this would be like willingly walking with a gun aimed at your head all the times and that can shoot anytime. Basically you are saying to me Madara was willignly walking around knowing that anytime if Kabuto decided to make him a killing machine or unsummon him he may never see daylight again, but he just decided not to get free earlier? , try harder.



♠Ace♠ said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mow Itachiwank logic, I wonder how he "solo'd him" when Sasuke was vital to win the fight, of course you will ignore Sasuke's as small as they were contributions claiming how Itachi soloed despite being Sasuke and Itachi vs Kabuto and claiming Sasuke wasnt needed .

Why do I even bother with you?



♠Ace♠ said:


> How anyone thought this guy was a final villain candidate is beyond my understanding. He might not die now, but he may as well. He'd lose to bloodlusted Sasuke as far as I'm concerned.



Yeah........ some things cant be comprehended by Itachiwankers fanboys . I mean it isnt like some guy that had an entire army with Nagato and Madara included under his command, at anytime shoudlnt be taken seriously.


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## Algol (Jun 27, 2012)

eh, i agree i don't know why people thought he may have been final villain, but i don't blame his failing on him. i blame it on kishi creating izanami as he did. kabuto was basically immortal, untouchable, and had a ridiculous arsenal and sage mode, but kishi gave the uchiha bros an "i win" button that was just perfect for negating all of that, allowing itachi to "solo" him in a genjutsu as you said (even though sasuke saved him twice, but i won't get into that)

it would have been great to see madara double-cross kabuto in the end though, for sure


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## Star★Platinum (Jun 27, 2012)

Agreed. **


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## KingBoo (Jun 27, 2012)

kabuto got too drunk on other people's power. so he made stupid decisions like reviving madara, losing the dangerous edos, and things like that. tobi, a guy who's been around for quite some time, even took some of his edos, and had zetsu spores on him. he clearly didn't think this through at all.

he should have just let tobi do his thing, while hiding in the shadows. like a ninja. but he forgot that too.

it's ok though, with itachi's izanami, kabuto will be a good guy, and much smarter.


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## Detective Prince (Jun 27, 2012)

Kabuto dreamed of flying with other birds...only to realise he was a slug jumping off of a tree.


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## Arles Celes (Jun 27, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> Trying to desesperately shift the failure-o-meter on Kabuto to hide Itachi's OP? . Okay first a respost:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



To be fair it wasn't stated in this chapter by Madara(or anyone else) that he could free himself ONLY if the summoner did dispel the jutsu and he(Madara) performed the seals immediately afterwards. All MAdara said is that to break the contract between him and the summoner all he needs is to know the seals. Why he waited so long then? Perhaps for dramatic effect so that readers would be all amazed why he sticks around after all.

Still, what you said may prove to be right in the next chapter(s) but it wasn't proved yet.

And clearly Itachi didn't solo Madara as Madara is...still around.

Personally I think that Kabuto was fairly impressive with his Sage Mode and insane regeneration and dodging skills. A shame his fight with the Uchiha bros was so convoluted with both teams holding back and way to many flashabacks...


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## Draffut (Jun 27, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Seriously this guy is a gigantic failure. He summons Itachi and then loses control of him.



This is as far as I got.

Tell me how he could have possibly stopped this from happening fail or no. Kishi's plot wankage dictated that shit ages ago.


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## Sniffers (Jun 27, 2012)

Yeah, Kabuto got shafted really hard. He had it coming though. He worked up some bad karma after all.


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## Ezekial (Jun 27, 2012)

LMAO ACE hates Kabuto as much as I hate Itachi


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 27, 2012)

Kabuto hit the bottom of the barrel in pathetic

getting patted, looped and crying tears of frustration doesn't help either

+ a crappy flashback


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 27, 2012)

Kabuto who ? 

Forgot about him already.


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## αce (Jun 27, 2012)

> Ergo, Itachi is hated because of people like you, now to disarm the post itself.





> ome things cant be comprehended by Itachiwankers fanboys





> Mow Itachiwank logic


Did you just imply that I like Itachi?
What the fuck?

Get the fuck out of here.


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## Mio (Jun 27, 2012)

Ace an Itachiwanker? Is it opposite day?

On-topic, Kabuto was indeed disappointing.


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## Fruit Monger (Jun 27, 2012)

The thing with Kabuto, is that his rise and fall will probably be the greatest in the Manga.  Underestimation has completely turned the tables for him...taking him from the highest mountain to the lowest valley.

He went from lab geek (300 chapters ago) to Frankenstein Dragon Mode, and if Kishi holds true to Izanami, he will revert back to lab geek.


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## BroKage (Jun 27, 2012)

Kishi embarrasses all his non-Uchiha villains in the end. It's not enough for them to just lose, oh no.

As a Kabuto fan I should've saw it coming after Orochimaru, Nagato, and Danzo's humiliations.


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## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Jun 27, 2012)

No he's not. It's like Itachi said. EVERY jutsu has it's weakness. Kabuto doubted it's weaknesses since it pretty much looked like the perfect technique. So far only one person were able to stop the contract was none other than Madara. You know, the same guy who on whole nother different ballpark compared to 99% of the rest of the Narutoverse.

Also OP, you probably shouldn't have included that Itachi emoticon, otherwise you wouldn't have looked like as much of a Itachi fan.


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## αce (Jun 27, 2012)

It's the best emoticon on here to be honest. Besides the giogio or the oldryoma. Oh and the noworries and distracted. But those didn't really fit.


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## Orochibuto (Jun 27, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Did you just imply that I like Itachi?
> What the fuck?
> 
> Get the fuck out of here.



Sorry for the insult (Being called an Itachifan is quite an insult indeed), but the level of hating you displayed on Kabuto I have only seen in Itachifanboys thus I thought you were one.

But actually I dont know if you are saying the truth, you claimed Itachi "soloed Kabuto" only its fanboys say that


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## Turrin (Jun 27, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Seriously this guy is a gigantic failure.


You do realize Kabuto caused more damage in this war with his machinations than any other character has, right? With that in mind I would not call the guy a gigantic failure, I mean he pretty much only failed due to deus ex machina, but more on that later.



> He summons Itachi and then loses control of him.


And here is why he lost due to Deus Ex Machina. Do you know how unlikely it is that in a war of 180,000+ Shinobi that Itachi just so happens to meet 1 specific shinobi who has a means to release him from Edo Tensei? Realistically this event just happened out of sheer luck on the part of the alliance, or rather should I say happened due to the hand of god Kishi reaching down and making an astronomically improbable event happen. If we played out the war scenario thousands of times w/o Kishi's hand of god interfering, 99% of the time Itachi would not end up freed via the crow.

And if Itachi is not freed via the crow than him and Nagato with ultimated chakra proceed to fuck the alliance over hardcore. Hell Kabuto wouldn't even have had to summon out Madara as his triumph card, since Nagato & Itachi would be the ones owning the alliance & even Kabuto said he only summoned Madara due to the fact that they were taken out.



> and then we figure out Madara was gonna play him like a chump eventually, meaning that he would have become powerless in the end.


Yes he overestimated himself, but he's far from powerless w/o Edo Madara. And Edo Madara breaking free would not mean the failure of his end goal, since his main goal was to have Akatsuki & the Alliance fight and weaken each other which he's been successful at, in-fact Madara breaking free rather than being ended with Edo Tensei is beneficial to that goal as Madara is going after the alliance and weakening them rather than going after him. 



> Not to mention that Itachi solo'd him in a genjutsu loop because he thinks he's Orochimaru and he's at Sasuke's mercy now.


Solo'd, yeah not so much, that was a 2v1 fight & again we have Deus Ex Machina occuring since if Itachi had gone alone he would have lost, but out of the thousands of different paths Sasuke could have taken to the battlefield he just so happens to cross Itachi's and is somehow delayed by fodder crows long enough for Itachi to lead him to Kabuto. If not for this second instants  of Dues Ex Machina, than Itachi would have fought Kabuto alone and would have lost.



> How anyone thought this guy was a final villain candidate is beyond my understanding. He might not die now, but he may as well. He'd lose to bloodlusted Sasuke as far as I'm concerned


He could have defeated Sasuke with his first SM Tech White Rage, so no Sasuke would need a power up to defeat Kabuto & this is a non-full power Kabuto who does not have his Tensei pawns. 

So far Kabuto has been successful at his goal to have Akatsuki & the Alliance fight each other & weaken each other. His second goal of taking Sasuke's body he failed at, but only due to extreme deus ex machina.

Yeah I'd say his plans and machinations were more sound than Itachi's ever have been, considering pre-death all of Itachi's plans failed & post-death he only partially succeeded in his goal due to extreme dues ex machina.


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## Dogescartes (Jun 27, 2012)

If you dont win you  are a failure. As much as I liked Kabuto, his finale was pathetic.

And Kishi you fucking troll  should feel bad. As he don?t deserve that fate.


There?s no moral winners here, Kabuto is trapped in a loop after a sad flahsback.

Uchihas are annoying, but it seem that are the only good villans that Kishi can write.

And that is sad.

Orochi and kabuto,  were more interesting.


Im just reading the manga to see how the yaoi fangirls (i hate you kishi) win in the end. .


Im so sad.

Overall i liked the Naruto manga, but this war is terrible because no good guys die.
It is Bleach?s "Winter War", again,


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## Gin Ichimaru (Jun 27, 2012)

lol kabuto. he's trash, what do you expect.


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## Hossaim (Jun 27, 2012)

Kabuto was an overconfident power hungry orochimaru fanboy who got put in his fucking place by the uchiha.


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## First Tsurugi (Jun 27, 2012)

This outcome was inevitable once he tried copying that failure Orochimaru.

Also apparently saying Itachi wasn't the biggest failure in the manga and using the wrong emoticons gets you labelled an Itachifan/tard now, lolwut?


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## Orochibuto (Jun 27, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Also apparently saying Itachi wasn't the biggest failure in the manga and using the wrong emoticons gets you labelled an Itachifan/tard now, lolwut?



No, saying he soloed a team battle does.


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## Kakashi Hatake (Jun 27, 2012)

Has Kabuto ever accomplish anything in life?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 27, 2012)

Kakashi Hatake said:


> Has Kabuto ever accomplish anything in life?


he got free glasses


and DNA juice


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## Sasuke (Jun 27, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> Kabuto hit the bottom of the barrel in pathetic
> 
> getting patted, looped and crying tears of frustration doesn't help either
> 
> + a crappy flashback



True dat. Worst arc-villain post skip. Even Kishi knew it, so he made sure he would redeem the awfulness of it all by showcasing Madara at the same time.


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## Orochibuto (Jun 27, 2012)

Fought 5 nations at the same time, was stomping them via Madara, at full power he held strenght comparable only with RS.

I said he accomplished a lot, more than 99% of Narutoverse. Bar Naruto and the FV no one will come even close to Kabuto's level when he wielded his full ET. So yes, he accomplished a lot.


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## Rawri (Jun 27, 2012)

Kabuto has been a huge letdown, but he hasn't exactly been a failure. We can't forget this whole war exists almost because of him.

Winning against Sasuke and Itachi was impossible, but he held his own like a boss.


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## αce (Jun 27, 2012)

> Fought 5 nations at the same time, was stomping them via Madara, at full power he held strenght comparable only with RS.



No one died.
Nothing was accomplished other than a showboat.




> I said he accomplished a lot, more than 99% of Narutoverse. Bar Naruto  and the FV no one will come even close to Kabuto's level when he wielded  his full ET. So yes, he accomplished a lot.



Having power is one thing. Doing something with it is another.
What did  he do with Edo other than kick shit in the air?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 27, 2012)

only the results matter

Itachi didn't stop Madara - FAILURE

Kabuto had it all, but lost _*everything*_ and was humiliated on top - WORSE FAILURE


KL never forgets and never forgives


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## Lurko (Jun 27, 2012)

Poor kabuto lol had potential to be much more but plot no justu came in.


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## Orochibuto (Jun 27, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> No one died.
> Nothing was accomplished other than a showboat.



Nearly 20,000 shinobi were wiped out on one edo, Madara's meteor crushed the bulk of the alliance



♠Ace♠ said:


> Having power is one thing. Doing something with it is another.
> What did  he do with Edo other than kick shit in the air?



For starters, he made this war to be actually fightable for the bad side, without him the war would had been simply a lure for Tobi to make a speedrun to the Jinchuurikis. Zetsu's fodder were even weaker without Kabuto's modification.

Sorry, but without him the fight would had been a total joke, an army of Zetsus wy weaker than fucking Chunnins + Gedou Mazo arent going to solo an alliance.


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## BatoKusanagi (Jun 27, 2012)

But, hey, he was the closest man to RS


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## Ryopus (Jun 27, 2012)

BatoKusanagi said:


> But, hey, he was the closest man to RS



Of the 6 major antagonists in the manga, Kabuto's power is ranked 5th only...
Madara > Tobi > Nagato > Sasuke > Kabuto > Orochimaru


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 27, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> Fought 5 nations at the same time, *was stomping them via Madara,* at full power he held strenght comparable only with RS.



 


He couldn't even control the guy.

I guess he also stomped himself via Itachi


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## Frawstbite (Jun 27, 2012)

Last I checked he aided in killing forty thousand shinobi. That is an accomplishment, it doesn't matter if they had names or not. It's Kabuto (or his summons or whatever) & Zetsu vs. the world, and for long enough he wasn't exactly losing.

And if Itachi can "solo" Madara through Kabuto  (not saying you said that, but you get me) than Kabuto can kill thousands and thousands of shinobi through edo tensei, and he did that.

The largest accomplishment in this war is wiping out half of the alliance (Not saying the edo's did all of the work, of course) which is composed of competent ninja and not a gang of Zetsu. Then there is defeating the Biiju and ending edo tensei. That's bumped down because it didn't do a damn thing to Madara. It stopped Chiyo and Kimimmaro. There was no indication that the ones that were sealed were going anywhere anytime soon.

No matter what order you put them in though, Naruto, Itachi, and Kabuto have all done decently enough. Neither Itachi or Kabuto failed as hard as anyone would like to believe.


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## GKY (Jun 27, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Did you just imply that I like Itachi?
> What the fuck?
> 
> Get the fuck out of here.



That's how this forum works, if you say one positive thing about Itachi you're a wanker,uchiha tard, etc.. It's cool to hate the guy but wank just as hacked non-Uchiha like Nagato, Jiraiya and Minato.

Get used to it 

As for your initial post, yeah you're probably right.


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## boohead (Jun 27, 2012)

Kabuto is absolute shit. But noone should be happy about this, bad villians make for bad arcs.


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## Jak N Blak (Jun 27, 2012)

In 'Buto we trust. Ace go make me a cup of tea. Now.


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## Orochibuto (Jun 27, 2012)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> He couldn't even control the guy.
> 
> I guess he also stomped himself via Itachi



And of course you will now provide proof that Kabuto was unable to control Madara.


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## Melas (Jun 27, 2012)

Lets see without Kabuto, the alliance would be fighting against Tobi, Sasuke and Zetsu. Did I miss anyone?

Tobi can't even get past four of the alliance's top shinobis with Edo jinchurikis. That leaves all the others inducing the kages to fight Sasuke and Zetsu. What a joke?

Based on performance to date, without Kabuto, Tobi has a tiny little offensive and certainly no war.


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## iJutsu (Jun 27, 2012)

Kabuto does learn from his mistakes. He didn't blank Madara's memory since he knew that directly controlling them simply doesn't work.

Unfortunately, being trapped in izanami limits his chances to learn from his mistake with Itachi. He can still redeem himself if he ever breaks out of it, unlike Itachi who is just plain gone.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 27, 2012)

anyone who thinks Kabuto is even remotely relevant at this point is delusional


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## Dolohov27 (Jun 27, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> Sorry for the insult (Being called an Itachifan is quite an insult indeed), but the level of hating you displayed on Kabuto I have only seen in* Itachifanboys *thus I thought you were one.
> 
> But actually I dont know if you are saying the truth, you claimed Itachi "soloed Kabuto" only its fanboys say that


 That's not necessary true, i dont like Itachi and cannot stand Kabuto. I even gave him a new name.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Fagbuto


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## Drums (Jun 27, 2012)

Agreed. I like how most people focused only on Itachi's failure this chapter, while completely disregarding Kabuto's whose failure, everything taken into account, is bigger.


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## Illairen (Jun 27, 2012)

Indeed Kabuto failed hard. I had hoped he gets a better ending, but he decided to mess with the king....what did he expect?


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## Stan Lee (Jun 27, 2012)

fedecala said:


> It is Bleach?s "Winter War", again,



Please, that wasn't even a war to begin with.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 27, 2012)

And yet without Kabuto their would be no war in the first place. 

Tobi, Gedo, Sasuke, and some fodder zetsus lol they get stomped.


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## Bender (Jun 27, 2012)

Honestly, I think itachi and Kabuto both suck.


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## LS20 (Jun 27, 2012)

Zero Requiem said:


> Please, that wasn't even a war to begin with.



And this was?


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## Fatstogey (Jun 27, 2012)

Itachi trained him dude. Hes probably gonna be even mo betta now.


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## Orochibuto (Jun 27, 2012)

Ace, please dont scare me into thinking a quality poster like you have gone to the Itachitard side of the wank, I would be even more disappointed than I was when I learned Yuna whom I used to respect was a total  that has to resort to negging to get a point accross 

Althought I admit with your Kabuto hating I was 3/4 to want to punch you in the face 

Thus I hope, the "Itachi soloed Kabuto" was just a joke on your part, otherwise you will meet my disappointment face for having lost one of the most valuable members of the "Anti-Itachi Army"


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## Lurko (Jun 27, 2012)

Poor kabito


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## DremolitoX (Jun 27, 2012)

Kabuto is shit, and edo tensei (especially Madara) was not part of his power.


I've been saying this for ages


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## bobby8685 (Jun 27, 2012)

I really doubt the 20,000 ninja Kabuto killed would impact the war in anyway. And we all know the war is not in anyway about the characters drawn in the background. His feats were useless because Kishi made them to be so. 

This war (and manga in general at this point) is not about anyone except the major players. 100,000 ninja would not have an affect on this war. The story isn't complex enough to allow that. It will come down to Naruto hitting someone with a rasengan as Kakashi complains about using up too much chakra again.


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## shibunari (Jun 27, 2012)

I agree OP.

I think that Kabuto will accept his true self and will return to the orphanage, eventually will die saving  Sasuke or/and Naruto's with Chiyo' jutsu.


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## BroKage (Jun 27, 2012)

StrawHeart said:


> Agreed. I like how most people focused only on Itachi's failure this chapter, while completely disregarding Kabuto's whose failure, everything taken into account, is bigger.


Kabuto is a villain, Itachi is not. Kabuto is still alive, Itachi is not.


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## Orochibuto (Jun 27, 2012)

bobby8685 said:


> I really doubt the 20,000 ninja Kabuto killed would impact the war in anyway. And we all know the war is not in anyway about the characters drawn in the background. His feats were useless because Kishi made them to be so.
> 
> This war (and manga in general at this point) is not about anyone except the major players. 100,000 ninja would not have an affect on this war. The story isn't complex enough to allow that. It will come down to Naruto hitting someone with a rasengan as Kakashi complains about using up too much chakra again.



You are aware 20,000 ninja is the entire military force of a village right? 5 Great Nations = 100,000 ninjas.

So you say basically leaving one of the 5 Great Nations without an army wouldnt impact the war? Let alone the war, fuck the village is going to be crippled for a fucking while, this is like if in real world someone destroyed the army of a world power. Dont think just about the war, a Great Nation has been left virtually without defenses.


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## Deana (Jun 27, 2012)

Kabuto's arrogance caused his failure.  If he would have left the Uchias' in the ground, he would have been successful.  Even if Itachi would not have trolled him . . . Madara would have done so when giving the chance.


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## Seraphiel (Jun 28, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> And of course you will now provide proof that Kabuto was unable to control Madara.



He could have broken the covenant any time he wanted.

He was never ordered to do anything.


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## BroKage (Jun 28, 2012)

Deana said:


> Kabuto's arrogance caused his failure.  If he would have left the Uchias' in the ground, he would have been successful.


If he had simply mind-wiped the Uchihas from the beginning, he'd have been safe even after reviving them.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 28, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> And of course you will now provide proof that Kabuto was unable to control Madara.



What you can't/don't control is not your power. 
Naruto had Kyuubi inside him in part 1.  Did anyone argue that he could defeat 7 bijuu  or that he was stronger than them combined ?


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## Butō Rengoob (Jun 28, 2012)

He's a Non-Uchiha villain in a Kishi manga, this was to be expected.


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## Lunarion (Jun 28, 2012)

I agree with OP about everything but Kabuto losing to Bloodlusted Sasuke. The Sauce doesn't have Totsuka. He will get blitzed, swallowed or flashbanged. Worst case scenasrio, flute Genjutsu ends him.

Amaterasu is negated by oral rebirth. Sauce's Genjutsu is crap vs. Kabuto's closed eyes + SM sensing. His Sussanoo is nowhere near as durable as Itachi's or Madaras. And that MS thunder jutsu disrupts it. Kabuto takes it alone.


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## Golden Circle (Jun 28, 2012)

It ain't over until the fat lady sings.

I surprisingly expect more from Kabuto.


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## shintebukuro (Jun 28, 2012)

Lunarion said:


> I agree with OP about everything but Kabuto losing to Bloodlusted Sasuke. The Sauce doesn't have Totsuka. He will get blitzed, swallowed or flashbanged. Worst case scenasrio, flute Genjutsu ends him.
> 
> Amaterasu is negated by oral rebirth. Sauce's Genjutsu is crap vs. Kabuto's closed eyes + SM sensing. His Sussanoo is nowhere near as durable as Itachi's or Madaras. And that MS thunder jutsu disrupts it. Kabuto takes it alone.



...until Sasuke awakens new strength, which Itachi's last words will open the door for.


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## Draffut (Jun 28, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> He could have broken the covenant any time he wanted.
> 
> He was never ordered to do anything.



Evidence please?

If he cannot control himself, then how could he break it?


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## Punished Pathos (Jun 28, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Seriously this guy is a gigantic failure. He summons Itachi and then loses control of him. He tells Tobi there's no flaw to this technique (he doesn't know his jutsu's own flaws), and then we figure out Madara was gonna play him like a chump eventually, meaning that he would have become powerless in the end. It was only a matter of time. He lost Nagato, his other Edo's aren't that strong (Deidara got captured, Sasori died) and Madara was gonna ditch him sooner or later.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



CO-Sign!!!!

Kabuto didn't even have the balls to fight Tobi.
Pre-Rinnegan Tobi could've won against Kabuto with trouble but once Tobi gained Rinnegan all hope was lost.
Kabuto thought he was next in line to be the Rikudou Sennin.
In the end Kabuto and his Edo Tensei were trolled by Itachi and Madara.
Kabuto still didn't know all of the ins and outs to Edo Tensei.
I'll assume if Kabuto got Madara to fight Tobi then Madara would've broken the spell then it would've been Madara and Tobi VS Kabuto.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Jun 28, 2012)

I can't entirely fault Kabuto.

It's a realistic personality flaw as far as, Kabuto in the space of a few months acquired an *immense* amount of power, and completed goals that Orochimaru himself was unable to accomplish.

He began preparations to use a technique that though he had seen Orochimaru use, this was his first time using it himself. There's simply no way he could've foreseen every problem or have done adequate research into this kinjutsu to know every loophole. There's really no way without actual combat experience that he would've been able to spot the flaws in his own fighting style, and even less of a way for him to gain more of an insight into the flaws of Edo Tensei without using it even more.

He lost Itachi on a fluke. He didn't know about Shisui's eye being stored in Naruto, and he didn't know Itachi had set it up on autotrigger like that. Even Itachi wasn't entirely sure, it was a gamble.

And Madara also isn't his fault. He was already defeated. It's possible that while the Edo Tensei is releasing the summoner can still exert influence, but the summoner was out of the picture. And only someone who had fought alongside Tobirama or Madara could possibly know that Madara knew the seals to execute Edo Tensei or that he could use it on himself. Kabuto knew a lot about Madara, but even he knew that he didn't know everything. He had control of his body, not his mind and he couldn't read his mind. Madara turned out to be a much more powerful trump card than even Kabuto imagined. Only Madara knew that he had seen Edo Tensei and that there was a loophole while he was being released.



Orochibuto said:


> You are aware 20,000 ninja is the entire military force of a village right? 5 Great Nations = 100,000 ninjas.
> 
> So you say basically leaving one of the 5 Great Nations without an army wouldnt impact the war? Let alone the war, fuck the village is going to be crippled for a fucking while, this is like if in real world someone destroyed the army of a world power. Dont think just about the war, a Great Nation has been left virtually without defenses.



Actually it's 80,000. One village is about 16,000 divided evenly, not accounting for the individual sizes of the villages such as Konoha and Kumo having the largest populations and Suna having the smallest.

20,000 ninja is fully a quarter of their forces, and it isn't like Tobi who can just take time to grow more, (although with the death of both halves of Zetsu that may be impossible as well), but it takes time, money, and energy to raise more ninja. At least a decade to raise a new crop of students, in the Konoha style only a third of that group makes Genin, half in the old Kiri system, and then like 1 in 72 or something like that, someone did the calculations not too long ago, makes Chunin. And then a smaller percentage makes Jonin. Think about the Jonin Council meeting. Konoha the largest village can fit all their Jonin in one medium sized room. That's a huge manpower problem.

And if that 20,000 chunk came from one village that village is essentially gone. Even if "the King" is at home, there's no pieces left to defend it anymore, and few left to teach. It's a disaster.


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## Seraphiel (Jun 28, 2012)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Evidence please?
> 
> If he cannot control himself, then how could he break it?



He was not fully restrained, had his personality, Kabuto was not controlling him personally. 

He needed to literally make a release command, if you think he couldn't do that even if he had to fight for it like Hanzo and Zabuza then we have to agree to disagree.

Also the evidence is in both MS's trans and MT's trans, which states that if the person summoned knows the release command he can do it.


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## Jeefus (Jun 28, 2012)

@Op

never thought Itachi was the biggest failure

agree with what you said about Kabuto though. Once Madara appeared, why on why would he ever NOT be the final villain?


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## hitokugutsu (Jun 28, 2012)

Yeah kabuto dropped a tier in my book

Originally I'd put Kabuto on the same tier as Rinnegan Madara & Rinnegan Tobi

Now, seeing as Madara was never truly his, he lost his biggest asset. He is Nagato/Itachi/Minato level at best


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 28, 2012)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> What you can't/don't control is not your power.
> Naruto had Kyuubi inside him in part 1.  Did anyone argue that he could defeat 7 bijuu  or that he was stronger than them combined ?



It seems to me that Madara is doing exactly what Kabuto summoned him to do pawn some noobs.


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## Chibason (Jun 28, 2012)

He dropped a level in my book.

...but maybe he can still redeem himself in some way


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## DremolitoX (Jun 28, 2012)

Kabuto can't redeem himself. He is shit and has always been shit and < Itachi.


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## Jeefus (Jun 28, 2012)

never imagined Kabuto would have mommy issues


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## Oga Tatsumi (Jun 28, 2012)

I don't blame Kabuto.
He is a villian he was to destinated to fail.
Kabuto could be the biggest failure of this war but Itachi is the greatest failure of all time.


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## LS20 (Jun 28, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> You are aware 20,000 ninja is the entire military force of a village right? 5 Great Nations = 100,000 ninjas.
> 
> So you say basically leaving one of the 5 Great Nations without an army wouldnt impact the war? Let alone the war, fuck the village is going to be crippled for a fucking while, this is like if in real world someone destroyed the army of a world power. Dont think just about the war, a Great Nation has been left virtually without defenses.



You know he's right though. You could've killed off every nin except Naruto, Tobi, Kabut Kakashi, Gai, Sasuke, Itachi and the Kages (a couple of the Kages could be gone too). And it wouldn't make a difference. Like that poster said, this story is not written complex enough for that. Which is because Kishi just doesn't care to put that much effort into it.

So no, it wouldn't impact the war, just like those 40,000 nin that were "killed" doesn't matter in the least.


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## BringerOfCarnage (Jun 28, 2012)

What I find really funny is the fact that while Itachi and Sasuke have their farewell and all, Kabuto is standing in the background like a statue.

Seems like Kishi is sending a message 

Honestly, I feel bad for Kabuto and his fans-I know that if Kishi gave that kind of treatment to a character I like, I'll be super pissed...


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## Divinstrosity (Jun 29, 2012)

BringerOfCarnage said:


> What I find really funny is the fact that while Itachi and Sasuke have their farewell and all, Kabuto is standing in the background like a statue.
> 
> Seems like Kishi is sending a message
> 
> Honestly, I feel bad for Kabuto and his fans-I know that if Kishi gave that kind of treatment to a character I like, I'll be super pissed...



Yeah.

While Madara not going away is a bit of a troll to Itachi ending ET, it's not a complete failure like many of these people are claiming. Whether Madara is the biggest threat or not, it doesn't change the fact that Itachi did his part. All the other ET zombies are gone, and only Madara is left. Not only that but Kabuto was stopped, and that is also huge. 

Itachi did a lot while free.

However, as a pissed off Kabuto fan - or simply an Itachi hater - the only consolation is to focus on the negatives.


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## BroKage (Jun 29, 2012)

BringerOfCarnage said:


> Honestly, I feel bad for Kabuto and his fans-I know that if Kishi gave that kind of treatment to a character I like, I'll be super pissed...


Kishi essentially punishes the reader for liking any character who defies Uchiha.


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## Last Rose of Summer (Jun 29, 2012)

Arcystus said:


> Kishi essentially punishes the reader for liking any character who defies Uchiha.



Just start liking Hashirama.


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## BroKage (Jun 29, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Just start liking Hashirama.


Imagine if it turns out that Tobi killed Hashirama.


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## Last Rose of Summer (Jun 29, 2012)

Arcystus said:


> Imagine if it turns out that Tobi killed Hashirama.



Tobi may not be Uchiha at all.


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## Seraphiel (Jun 29, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Tobi may not be Uchiha at all.



He is still Madara's bitch, if not a part of him.


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## Prince Vegeta (Jun 29, 2012)

Itachi only won because Kabuto let him, He could have summoned the rest of ET to deal with itachi.


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## αce (Jun 29, 2012)

> Itachi only won because Kabuto let him, He could have summoned the rest of ET to deal with itachi.



Could have but didn't.
Fail.


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## BroKage (Jun 29, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Could have but didn't.
> Fail.


Plot-induced fail.

Itachi proved that Kabuto could've just desummoned _him_. So why choose not to and get his ass kicked instead? Plot.


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## tupadre97 (Jun 29, 2012)

Kabuto wasnt even needed in this war. It couldnt have just been zetsu's. They could have made the zetsu's powerful with wood-style and regeneration. Then they could have had actual battles, actual strategies, and lots of deaths bcuz the zetsu could have been getting stronger and stronger from yamatos chakra. But no, Kishi gave us hype with the ET army and didnt deliver. He failed so completely its not even funny.


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## BlinkST (Jun 29, 2012)

Completely agree


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## tupadre97 (Jun 29, 2012)

Blinx-182 said:


> Completely agree



Dude wen I saw this picture i was like wtf, Kishi is tryin to make this guy look like  a god or messiah or something. Thats how u kno Kishi is a uchiha dickrider/wanker


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## shintebukuro (Jun 29, 2012)

Arcystus said:


> Kishi essentially punishes the reader for liking any character who defies Uchiha.



Kishi punishes anti-Uchiha fans.

If you're a normal person who reads this series, who doesn't have some insane hatred and agenda against particular characters, it's fine.



			
				tupadre97 said:
			
		

> Kabuto wasnt even needed in this war. It couldnt have just been zetsu's. They could have made the zetsu's powerful with wood-style and regeneration. Then they could have had actual battles, actual strategies, and lots of deaths bcuz the zetsu could have been getting stronger and stronger from yamatos chakra. But no, Kishi gave us hype with the ET army and didnt deliver. He failed so completely its not even funny.



...............................

You think it would have been good to have an entire war full of fights against _Zetsu clones_? :amazed


I'm sorry you didn't get to see the ET's you wanted to see fight.


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## AoshiKun (Jun 29, 2012)

Kabuto did well, the problem here is Kishimoto doesn't let villains succeed.


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## Bloo (Jun 29, 2012)

He had Orochimaru's DNA in him, it was obvious the moment he revealed he implanted Orochimaru's cells that Itachi somehow was gonna come back and beat him. It was made even more clear when Kabuto himself said, "One could genjutsu the user of Edo Tensei into cancelling the technique." How Kabuto didn't see that summoning the best genjutsu user in the manga while knowing genjutsu is a weakness to Edo Tensei would result in failure, is fail on his part.

And apparently Uchiha are immune to Edo Tensei as both Uchihas revived broke free from his control.


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## AoshiKun (Jun 29, 2012)

Bloo said:


> He had Orochimaru's DNA in him, it was obvious the moment he revealed he implanted Orochimaru's cells that Itachi somehow was gonna come back and beat him. It was made even more clear when Kabuto himself said, "One could genjutsu the user of Edo Tensei into cancelling the technique." How Kabuto didn't see that summoning the best genjutsu user in the manga while knowing genjutsu is a weakness to Edo Tensei would result in failure, is fail on his part.
> 
> And apparently Uchiha are immune to Edo Tensei as both Uchihas revived broke free from his control.


Uchihas are beyond control 
To be fair how could Kabuto expect something like Koto Amatsukami could do that?


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## Last Rose of Summer (Jun 29, 2012)

AoshiKun said:


> Kabuto did well, the problem here is Kishimoto doesn't let villains succeed.



That's hardly only Kishi's flaw.


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## Bloo (Jun 29, 2012)

AoshiKun said:


> Uchihas are beyond control
> To be fair how could Kabuto expect something like Koto Amatsukami could do that?


Not only that, but the way Madara broke free was overly easy... Kabuto should have known the flaws in the technique.

This is probably the true reason it's a kinjutsu. Not because it disturbs the dead.


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## Raiden (Jun 29, 2012)

All villains are failures by design. Kabuto just joins the list of people who had a seemingly foolproof plan but failed anyway.

For whatever reason, the mangaka wanted Itachi to bask in the spotlight as well. This must be leading to something in the future; I assume the platform for restoring the Uchiha name (and Sasuke's redemption). But that's far down the road.


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## LS20 (Jun 29, 2012)

shintebukuro said:


> Kishi punishes anti-Uchiha fans.
> 
> If you're a normal person who reads this series, who doesn't have some insane hatred and agenda against particular characters, it's fine.
> 
> ...



Well I'm a normal person reading the series, I'm not apart of some fandom and can tell you straight up that a LOT has sucked with this manga and that Kishi just doesn't seem to give a damn either.

And you want to talk about fandoms? Kishi is THE biggest Itachitard there is. The ass-pullery from this guy (Itachi) is out in orbit somewhere.


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## Ryuzaki (Jun 29, 2012)

Not going to lie, I have to agree with Turrin that most of this was plot-induced. If Itachi/Nagato met someone other than Naruto/Bee and waited it out for a little while things may have played out differently.


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## m1cojakle (Jun 29, 2012)

Maybe this was kabutos plan all along?


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## ShenLong Kazama (Jun 30, 2012)

Every week another shitstorm.


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## Mistshadow (Jun 30, 2012)

what are you talking about, kabuto knew the flaws inside and out. He knew genjutsu was the only way to beat him and his army, and what do you know, he had the perfect counter to it, however kishi made up a genjutsu that works WITHOUT any eye contact somehow which is complete BS. And Kabuto noted that whether he died or not his edo's will still rampage, well what do you know, he got genjutsu'd and released edo, yet his most powerful edo is still rampaging, how is that a lose for him?


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## αce (Jun 30, 2012)

> what are you talking about, kabuto knew the flaws inside and out.



no he didn't.



> He knew genjutsu was the only way to beat him and his army



I didn't say anything about genjutsuing Kabuto.
Itachi broke out of his edo tensei with a genjutsu, something he didn't know could happen.



> however kishi made up a genjutsu that works WITHOUT any eye contact somehow which is complete BS



Didn't say anything about that. And it's not BS. Keep crying. It's Itachi.



> And Kabuto noted that whether he died or not his edo's will still  rampage, well what do you know, he got genjutsu'd and released edo, yet  his most powerful edo is still rampaging, how is that a lose for him?



Because his most powerful edo was gonna give him the finger eventually.
Fail.


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## Neelix (Jun 30, 2012)

Mistshadow said:


> yet his most powerful edo is still rampaging, how is that a lose for him?



his most powerful edo is not his edo anymore, thats a loss.


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## Mistshadow (Jun 30, 2012)

Neelix said:


> his most powerful edo is not his edo anymore, thats a loss.



like he cares, he was NEVER exerting any control on madara in the first place, letting him do whatever he wants. For example when he asked madara would he like to stay and fight the army or go after the real nine tails. the fact that he is stuck in a genjutsu loop while madara is still rampaging is the bright side for him because that's what he wants.


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## Pyre's Plight (Jun 30, 2012)

It isn't Kabuto. It's Tobi for thinking that a bunch of Zetsu clones would have made for a competent army. He's lost the jinchuriki and is now about the face off against most of the alliance. Maybe he can pull something off but I really want to see where he is going with this.


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## BroKage (Jun 30, 2012)

There's still zero proof that Madara could release himself while Kabuto was actually awake.

If he could there's no reason he wouldn't have tried.


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## Seraphiel (Jun 30, 2012)

Arcystus said:


> There's still zero proof that Madara could release himself while Kabuto was actually awake.
> 
> If he could there's no reason he wouldn't have tried.



Except the chapter specifically states that he could since he knew the seals. He didn't do it because he didn't need to.


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## Datakim (Jun 30, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> Except the chapter specifically states that he could since he knew the seals. He didn't do it because he didn't need to.



I don't think it does. Or rather, its not confirmed whether or not Madara could have made those seals while he was still under Kabutos control. We have seen before that Kabuto was able to control the physical actions of his zombies, even if the zombie in question wanted to do something different.

So the fact that Madara knew the seals all along would not help, if he could not actually move his body into making those seals because Kabuto would not let him. Basically its a situation where Madara would first need to break free and regain his free will, in order to perform the technique to break free. This would obviously not have been an issue in this chapter, because ET was ending and all zombies regained their free wills, allowing Madara to perform the seals now that he was free.

I would say that if Madara could have broken free all along, he would have. To throw it to Kabutos face if nothing else. Instead he only did it when Kabutos control was already broken.


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## Mistshadow (Jun 30, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> no he didn't.



yes he did, show an example of what he didn't know could stop edo tensei. 
it took one of the most hax genjutsus never seen or hinted at  in the series to be able to stop him



♠Ace♠ said:


> I didn't say anything about genjutsuing Kabuto.
> Itachi broke out of his edo tensei with a genjutsu, something he didn't know could happen.



no he knew exactly it could happen, Itachi didn't tell kabuto that it was shisui koto that did it, kabuto deduced it himself saying thats the only genjutsu possible that would overpower it, which is why he went ecstatic and wanted it. he just didn't know itachi made that prep in naruto, nor did itachi expect it to affect him instead of sasuke. freak of luck.



♠Ace♠ said:


> Didn't say anything about that. And it's not BS. Keep crying. It's Itachi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A: IDC either, just saying kabuto made prep to counter ALL known jutsu's and strats the reader was privy to at this point in the story, until he introduced a genjutsu that doesn't require any control of the targets eyes/ears. first genjutsu of the case.

B: who says he would have ever allowed madara to perform that seal, madara never said he would go after kabuto, kabuto ressed madara and THEN was sucking up to him so taht he would side with him instead of tobi. tells me kabuto knew what to expect from resurrecting madara.


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