# Are you an advocate for White Lies?



## Schneider (Feb 18, 2022)

As a result oriented person, yes I am. In fact, make it non-white lies as well, depending if it outweighs real truths for a specific purpose.

Case in point: I have a close friend who is getting married soon. My wife found out that the vendors unknowingly scammed her the fuck out. She asked us newlyweds for our opinion, then a beef immediately ensued with me opting to tell her everything is ok while my wife wants to tell her the naked truth. My reasoning:

1. To not cause more unnecessary stress. Handling the wedding took a hefty toll on her, plus other ongoing life problems. Her hair even turned white and she's only in her 30s.
2. The "scam" involves promising in a brand new concept (its not) and marked up decor prices. For those, our friend got charged extra. But really, the additional cost in respect to our friend's wealth, amounts to peanuts and pennies. She's _that_ rich. And the vendors will still make sure the wedding goes proper anyway, as once shit sticks in your portfolio your pretty much dead in the industry here.
3. A wedding where i live is a big hype balloon that deflates instantly once its over. You pour time, sweat and tears trying to make it perfect (hint: it never will), check out other couple's wedding and stuff. But after it was done, its _done_. Most came to the realization it never was that big a deal, and no more fucks were given on their own, others' or 'novel' upcoming weddings. Vendors told me our original concept became a trendsetter, and tbh there was barely more than a "meh, cool i guess" in us. People with (or guests of) disaster weddings end up with "eh, shit happens" and quickly moved on. Same with our good friend here, even if worse comes to worst she's not going to dwell on it after she's done. She'll just get over it like everybody else so the way i see it the extra stress ain't worth it long term. She probably won't even bother to check if she really got a completely new concept or not.

So what's your opinion on this? Are you above using lies as a tool? Share your cases here!

Another on-going white lie: we didn't tell my paternal grandmother that 2 of her sons (one being my dad) passed away. The few times she remembered to ask, we just told her they are on a business trip abroad, and she'll just forget it right away due to dementia.

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## pfft (Feb 18, 2022)

Are they really close friends of yours or just your wife?  Btw if she’s rich and can afford it fuck it… especially if she’s a bridezilla type.


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## pfft (Feb 18, 2022)

Schneider said:


> Another on-going white lie: we didn't tell my paternal grandmother that 2 of her sons (one being my dad) passed away. The few times she remembered to ask, we just told her they are on a business trip abroad, and she'll just forget it right away due to dementia.


You might be right with this one but it could really emotionally set her off into a bout which might also be temporary but one you would have to deal with for that duration…


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## Jim (Feb 18, 2022)

I'm not the type of person people ask for advice.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Schneider (Feb 18, 2022)

pfft said:


> Are they really close friends of yours or just your wife?  Btw if she’s rich and can afford it fuck it… especially if she’s a bridezilla type.


She's close with both of us. Wife knew her firsthand but we only got close after I came into the scene.

Yes she can easily afford a wedding 10 times the price of her current one. Thing is she does have a little bridezilla going on the way she's so cheap, haggles like a mofo yet quite demanding at the same time.


pfft said:


> You might be right with this one but it could really emotionally set her off into a bout which might also be temporary but one you would have to deal with for that duration…


So far she never figured it out due to her mental decline. It's almost like she's perpetually living in one period of her life.

I'd imagine if we told her the truth she'd either not believe us or sob for a few moments then abruptly forget it

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## Kitsune (Feb 18, 2022)

I’m not a fan of lies at all. Maybe a rare white lie is passable if it’s done for the sake of kindness, not convenience.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3


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## Jim (Feb 18, 2022)

People are actually more interested in the truth than lies, even if the lies are like embellishments.

Reactions: Like 1


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## pfft (Feb 18, 2022)

Schneider said:


> She's close with both of us. Wife knew her firsthand but we only got close after I came into the scene.
> 
> Yes she can easily afford a wedding 10 times the price of her current one. Thing is she does have a little bridezilla going on the way she's so cheap, haggles like a mofo yet quite demanding at the same time.
> 
> ...



Ooh imo the white lie might be helping out the workers she wants to gouge. I say your a saint to not tell. The Good Place might even  offer a few points toward your cause. 


As for grandma yeah it’s awful to tell the truth to someone who will go through pain and confusion… you know it’s crazy but the way they portray dementia (or maybe it’s Alzheimer’s) in Bojack Horseman is really dark and profound…
Idk if you’ve ever seen it. Bojack s mom goes through a lot with the dementia. Idk if it’s true but I’ve read an autobiography of Rita Hayworth who had early onset Alzheimer’s and they implied that a person can go through so much in their former years and the pain and suffering can attribute to having Alzheimer’s

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## Schneider (Feb 18, 2022)

pfft said:


> Ooh imo the white lie might be helping out the workers she wants to gouge. I say your a saint to not tell. The Good Place might even offer a few points toward your cause.


I'd say we're all going to hell tbh 

One thing i forgot to mention, is at this point there's _very little_ chance my friend can get any drastic change in her wedding setup because there's simply no time left, hence why i felt its unnecessary. All she can do is complain, though i doubt it'll land her anywhere. Tbf her attitude towards the vendors also make it hard for them to give an extra effort too.


pfft said:


> As for grandma yeah it’s awful to tell the truth to someone who will go through pain and confusion… you know it’s crazy but the way they portray dementia (or maybe it’s Alzheimer’s) in Bojack Horseman is really dark and profound…
> Idk if you’ve ever seen it. Bojack s mom goes through a lot with the dementia. Idk if it’s true but I’ve read an autobiography of Rita Hayworth who had early onset Alzheimer’s and they implied that a person can go through so much in their former years and the pain and suffering can attribute to having Alzheimer’s


In a way its like that 50 first dates but in a horrifying tone. Tell her tragic news, shock and cry, then forget. Tell her again and she'll cry in anguish again like the first time hearing it, everytime. The pain will always be fresh due to her never able to cope with it.


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## Worm Juice (Feb 18, 2022)

Not comfortable with voting _depends, and whites only_

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 2


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## pfft (Feb 18, 2022)

Schneider said:


> I'd say we're all going to hell tbh
> 
> One thing i forgot to mention, is at this point there's _very little_ chance my friend can get any drastic change in her wedding setup because there's simply no time left, hence why i felt its unnecessary. All she can do is complain, though i doubt it'll land her anywhere. Tbf her attitude towards the vendors also make it hard for them to give an extra effort too.
> 
> In a way its like that 50 first dates but in a horrifying tone. Tell her tragic news, shock and cry, then forget. Tell her again and she'll cry in anguish again like the first time hearing it, everytime. The pain will always be fresh due to her never able to cope with it.


Lol yeah everyone’s def going to hell there’s probably only one true saint who makes the cut to heaven.  
I think it’s fair to not want to give the information when her only option  will be for her to bitch about it.  
Mistreating people because you pay them is p awful in general. If there’s one thing I do believe can produce results as in make ppl try harder is extra money… tipping and not a cheap amount. 

I have dealt with a random woman with dementia once out and about. She was with her husband and they were gambling but I guess they didn’t stay together and she became scared and upset because she couldn’t find him. I helped her find him and he seemed embarrassed but I felt particularly sad For her if she is often left alone  to be scared and wandering often

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## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Feb 18, 2022)

it really depends 

i've learned the hard way not to be so honest. i was babysitting my newphew a few years ago (he was about nine months old) and he fell from my grasp while we were playing. he didn't drop very far- maybe a few inches and landed on his tummy. the floor was also carpeted. he began crying and i soothed him and checked to see if anything hurt when i pressed on it.

nothing did, and we continued playing for the rest of the afternoon. when his mom came to pick him up not long later, i explained what happened to her. i didnt have any experience with kids at the time and i wanted to be completely transparent in case he began feeling unwell in the days to come. 

my SIL listened quietly and told me she would let me know if she noticed anything.

and then i wasn't left alone with my nephew again for 6 months 

i definitely think she assumed i didn't do a good job caring for him, and maybe thought he wasn't safe in my care. and i didn't need to freak her out by opening my big mouth in the first place to a first time mom

so my new rule is, if it will cause needless worry, keep information to yourself. 

it isn't a lie per say because i'm not denying anything...i'm just not _revealing_ everything that i know.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## savior2005 (Feb 18, 2022)

I try not to lie, but more times than not I'll say something differently and not give complete information. It will give the person a different interpretation of what I say, which is intentional on my end. 

For example, recently my uncle kept asking/grilling me about my salary (so that he can compare it to his son's salary). I ended up telling him something like "A bit over $40k". He probably interpreted that as $41k-$45k and bragged about how his son is making almost $60k even though he is a few years younger than me. In truth I make a bit more than his son but I don't want him knowing that.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Magic (Feb 18, 2022)

If you never hold anything back or tell the truth 100% of the time. It's stupid.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Canute87 (Feb 18, 2022)

So what?

Black Lies don't matter?

Reactions: Funny 2 | Disagree 1


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## Shanks (Feb 18, 2022)

Not avocate... More it's unavoidable.

You have sex, you don't feel it. Make sure you pretend.

Something small that might cause us to have a bad time....forget about it and don't worry about mentioning it.

When dating or pick up. Teasing, flirting, story telling has elements of exaggeration, mixing the truth with other stuff.

Miscommunication and cocky funny are a great way of flirting, but there is a small element of lies. E.g "your hair looks great, but I was wondering how you managed to dye the root of your hair".

When you drop her home, you say with a straight face "okay, that will be $5 dollar for the ride" and then give a sneaky smile.

When telling a story, add elements to it to make it sound better.

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## Schneider (Feb 18, 2022)

RemChu said:


> If you never hold anything back or tell the truth 100% of the time. It's stupid.


As a person living in a 3rd world country this would either get you killed or starve you to death. Lying and foolproofing it aint just an art, its a survival skill here.

But i do see the allure of living with less of it, seems like a much simpler life to live. Probably one of the main reasons why some filthy rich indonesians forego living like royalties to live as mortals in another country. It can be so liberating.

A place like that imo would be china and western/northern euro (germanic/nordic countries). Petty scams are there in china but with time it gets increasingly harder to do so, especially at higher levels. Lack actual experience living in euro, but some foreign students i've met simply lack that 'slimyness' to them, which may or may not be a reflection of their culture growing up.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## pfft (Feb 18, 2022)

Schneider said:


> As a person living in a 3rd world country this would either get you killed or starve you to death. Lying and foolproofing it aint just an art, its a survival skill here.
> 
> But i do see the allure of living with less of it, seems like a much simpler life to live. Probably one of the main reasons why some filthy rich indonesians forego living like royalties to live as mortals in another country. It can be so liberating.
> 
> A place like that imo would be china and western/northern euro (germanic/nordic countries). Petty scams are there in china but with time it gets increasingly harder to do so, especially at higher levels. Lack actual experience living in euro, but some foreign students i've met simply lack that 'slimyness' to them, which may or may not be a reflection of their culture growing up.


 would you say ; 
It’s a hard life if you tell the truth? 


—- 
.. On another note imo the white lies we tell ourselves makes for a happier life. When you live in a world bending the truth can help you out

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## Schneider (Feb 18, 2022)

Schneider said:


> Lack actual experience living in euro, but some foreign students i've met simply lack that 'slimyness' to them, which may or may not be a reflection of their culture growing up.


Heck i even felt the same way over the net about a certain swede @dr_shadow

Wondering whats up with yuros, do they really live a mostly honest life?


pfft said:


> would you say ;
> It’s a hard life if you tell the truth?
> 
> 
> ...


I'd say, _hearing_ the truth is hard. Most of the time it is unwelcomed, but most people also know it is a coveted commodity. It isn't free, we have to search, ask, force or even pay for it at times, as there are a lot cases where only the truth can help you move forward.

My take as someone living in quite a convoluted culture, anyway.


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## Schneider (Feb 18, 2022)

Shanks said:


> Not avocate... More it's unavoidable.
> 
> You have sex, you don't feel it. Make sure you pretend.
> 
> ...


This brings me to another question.

Are "bluffs" white lies as well? Or does it specifically depend on the underlying cause?

It is as common as oxygen with varying shapes and sizes, but i can hardly see it being used maliciously. Mostly self-hype (to fit in, to gain trust, etc.) or survival.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mihawk (Feb 21, 2022)

For most of life I've tried to be as honest and transparent as possible, but you're really shooting yourself in the foot if you're always like this...even if it is "the right thing to do".

So now, I lie selectively.

White lies I utilise if it means saving someone the knowledge of too much pain or hurt. Examples: assuring a family member that a loved one of theirs died peacefully (when in fact they were suffering), or letting someone know it's going to be okay.

I try my hardest not to hide things or lie to the people I care about or those I judge to be of good character.

There are those whom I don't care for or respect, and hell I lie to their face if it means benefitting me rather than furthering their agenda; or I just don't care to explain anything to them. I lie if it means it will serve my purpose, but not at the cost or expense at other people's suffering when I weight things on a balance of scales. Every situation is different, and some people don't need to know everything about you. Sometimes you just gotta realise you don't owe anyone an explanation unless you're in: a) a committed relationship; b) in a fraternity where loyalty comes before anything; or c) or when your family or others genuinely need your help.


Ideally though, better to live a life where lying isn't really necessary. Not a good thing if it becomes a habit, and eventually you'll just unravel when people start to catch on. Not a good look on you.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Karasu (Feb 22, 2022)

This is an amazing thread. Best. Thread. Ever.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Schneider (Feb 23, 2022)

ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ said:


> it isn't a lie per say because i'm not denying anything...i'm just not _revealing_ everything that i know.


This takes me back to a debate i had with @Vagueness in the Squid Game netflix thread.

Not revealing everything, while technically not a lie, is an option very prone to be laced with disingenuity. One use in such case not to cause excess worry (when everything is alright in the end) is fine, but lots of others are not especially those with overt self interest or malicious intent.

In the thread i argued that participants were fully accounted for on their choice of participating in the death games, the counterargument being their consents were not of a fully informed one. I argued again that the multiple red flags were laid bare to see despite so. But as real world events around me unfolded, it is now apparent that my perception on people's thought process, and thus my whole premise, was wrong.

An astounding amount of money had been circulating in a ponzi scheme dressed as online trading in my country. The money never went to the market, sourced from majority (middle to lows income bracket) and goes into the pockets of a few people. Needless to say countless with the app installed are financially ruined. Consent and agreements were laid bare (albeit far from transparent) but red flags alone has little hand in their choices apparently..

On one hand i always advocate for self accountability, but the ideal approach would be a two pronged one. Big moneys should be accountable for ethical business practices, and preferably provide real value.


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## Raiden (Feb 23, 2022)

Schneider said:


> Another on-going white lie: we didn't tell my paternal grandmother that 2 of her sons (one being my dad) passed away. The few times she remembered to ask, we just told her they are on a business trip abroad, and she'll just forget it right away due to dementia.



So sorry about this.

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## pfft (Feb 24, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> For most of life I've tried to be as honest and transparent as possible, but you're really shooting yourself in the foot if you're always like this...even if it is "the right thing to do".


This has gotten me into a lot of trouble. It never benefits you. Now I really only want to live an easier life. I fully am on board w selective lies.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Karasu (Feb 24, 2022)

Yeah, not a fan of lying. Honestly too much to remember

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## ClannadFan (Jul 9, 2022)

Really depends on who I'm talking to. A girl I used to talk to would always ask me how she looked, and I learned quickly that if I said anything other than beautiful, there would be problems.


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## pfft (Jul 9, 2022)

ClannadFan said:


> Really depends on who I'm talking to. A girl I used to talk to would always ask me how she looked, and I learned quickly that if I said anything other than beautiful, there would be problems.


That’s a selective lie to benefit yourself and to get past the woman’s needy manipulation. 

She needed the validation whether it’s true or not , and if she didn’t get the positive one it caused problems. 

Plus she wanted you to be nice enough to her to lie in order for her mental health to remain positive. 

One day she may get stronger but the validation really helped her out.

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## Flowjr (Jul 9, 2022)

In general it's best not to lie. 

But there are circumstances where its justified.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Leo Fall (Jul 9, 2022)

I believe in the truth, however there are times and places for white lies I think. White lies are often used to avoid hurting feelings. That's good here and there, but sometimes that person simply needs to know, either because it's good to tell the truth or for that person to grow. The one thing I'd say that's always good to say white lies, is to keep surprises a surprise. Like birthday parties, a random gift, a celebration, etc.

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## Perrin (Jul 9, 2022)

White lies matter too.

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## Shanks (Jul 9, 2022)

Not advocating. Just unavoidable sometimes.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Schneider (Jul 9, 2022)

ClannadFan said:


> Really depends on who I'm talking to. A girl I used to talk to would always ask me how she looked, and I learned quickly that if I said anything other than beautiful, there would be problems.





pfft said:


> That’s a selective lie to benefit yourself and to get past the woman’s needy manipulation.
> 
> She needed the validation whether it’s true or not , and if she didn’t get the positive one it caused problems.
> 
> ...


wife: oh no this feels kinda tight HONEY AM I GETTING FAT BE HONEST TELL ME IM FAT

me: well you got this flab recently that jiggles when walking down the stairs-

wife:

me: what

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## ClannadFan (Jul 9, 2022)

Schneider said:


> wife: oh no this feels kinda tight HONEY AM I GETTING FAT BE HONEST TELL ME IM FAT
> 
> me: well you got this flab recently that jiggles when walking down the stairs-
> 
> ...


Fr tho lol. I wasn't even being mean, I think I just said something along the lines that I wasn't the biggest fan of how she did her hair and make up lol


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