# Superman vs. Goku



## Id (Oct 3, 2007)

Superman is acting on his highest power level, with out sundiping.
Goku is at SS3 (no time limit).


*Rules*
Blood Lusted
No PIS
No Jobbing
No CIS
For Superman - Post PC (or Silver Age).
For Goku - Manga only (no anime)

*
Location*
Indestructible, lifeless, and uninhibited planet.



*Handicaps *
Banned - Instant Transmition 
Speed Cap - Nothing over 99% the speed of light.


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Going to have to define highest level without sundiping...you mean at his strongest without sundipping and is this post crisis only version or the strongest superman there is post crisis?


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## Kaki (Oct 3, 2007)

oh god, you set up the classic match well. I don't know too much about superman, but I'd say ok wins. Surviving after death means you win right?


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## Id (Oct 3, 2007)

feitan said:


> Going to have to define highest level without sundiping...you mean at his strongest without sundipping and is this post crisis only version or the strongest superman there is post crisis?



 With out the need of actually going into the Sun/Star itself and take a dip. Post Crisis only (Feats done by other incarnations of Superman are not allowed).


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Since its bloodlusted superman opens with a bigass heat vision bathing....goku gets melted.


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## Birkin (Oct 3, 2007)

Goku counters with Kamehameha


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Not really,superman from years ago(so weaker then now)and under a red sun(so weakened even more)heat vision was able to put out enough power to move an entire planet through space,he can also extend his heat vision to encompass an entire planet.


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## Gunners (Oct 3, 2007)

Superman would win. If he is bloodlusted he would just abuse the fact that Goku needs to breath and roast or freeze the air around Goku.


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## LIL_M0 (Oct 3, 2007)

I thought Superman vs Goku meant instant ban...


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## Green Lantern (Oct 3, 2007)

Seeing as it IS the OB's reset, and this IS the classic thread which is always made, I will allow this, AND ONLY THIS thread to exist, as future reference for the generations to come.

That being said, Supes still wins this, post crisis, he's tanked some pretty big hits, and even without the dreaded sp33dbl1tz!! he's still got more then enough punching power to take Goku down, even without going into his other abilities.


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## EvilMoogle (Oct 3, 2007)

Jio said:


> Superman would win. If he is bloodlusted he would just abuse the fact that Goku needs to breath and roast or freeze the air around Goku.



QFT.

Bloodlusted Supes opens with full-bore heat vision.  Even if we assume Goku can dodge/live through that it will boil the atmosphere off the planet which will be a problem for Goku before it's a problem for Superman.


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## Gooba (Oct 3, 2007)

This thread is ok because we aren't going to let trolling just go on and destroy it, and one of the largest reasons the other version failed has already been dealt with.

I am going with Superman on this one.  He has taken people on who are stronger/tougher/faster than Goku and won in hand to hand.  Then you can go into his overpowered heat vision to make it even faster.


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## Havoc (Oct 3, 2007)

Just not the same without Phenom and jplaya.


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## Gunners (Oct 3, 2007)

> Just not the same without Phenom and jplaya.


Yeah it won't reach the 100+ page madness. Really the Goku vs Superman threads are pointless without the beef.

If you were to be mature about it, Superman takes this. He has been shown to be physically stronger, at the end of the day Goku breathes like a human Goku can roast the air.

There really is nothing.


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## Keollyn (Oct 3, 2007)

Havoc said:


> Just not the same without Phenom and jplaya.



Most unfortunate.


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## master bruce (Oct 3, 2007)

dude, HTF are you gonna have superjerk use speed up to just below 99% light, but yet, you have goku not able to use Instant Tranmission??!!!?!?!?!?!?!


You basically are saying, here I'll let superman take this while goku, whose normal top speed feats(without it) is nowhere near 1/5 of the 99% lightspeed superjerk has.


You've just made this whole thread biased so superjerk has auto-win.


I knew this would happen, every frickin' goku versus superman thread this biased sh$t happens.


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

master bruce said:


> dude, HTF are you gonna have superjerk use speed up to just below 99% light, but yet, you have goku not able to use Instant Tranmission??!!!?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> 
> You basically are saying, here I'll let superman take this while goku, whose normal top speed feats(without it) is nowhere near 1/5 of the 99% lightspeed superjerk has.
> ...


According to dbztards goku is beyond lightspeed,and this isnt a biased thread,a biased thread would be supes 1 million versus dbz or silver age supes.


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## Havoc (Oct 3, 2007)

Fine, Goku gets his IT, and Supes can go FTL.

That less biased?

Not that it changes anything, Supes would still win.


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## Id (Oct 3, 2007)

master bruce said:


> dude, HTF are you gonna have superjerk use speed up to just below 99% light, but yet, you have goku not able to use Instant Tranmission??!!!?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> 
> You basically are saying, here I'll let superman take this while goku, whose normal top speed feats(without it) is nowhere near 1/5 of the 99% lightspeed superjerk has.
> ...



Your right, I wanted to keep this within the content of a slug fest. 
That way no one leaves the arena. And with IT, Goku has the means to leave. But it can be fixed.

Goku keeps his IT, but he cant leave the Arena. Leaving would mean BFR.


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## Power16 (Oct 3, 2007)

Is this Post Crisis Supes or All Star(i think he's th highest level without pre crisis or sundipped) the result would be the same but just a little quicker with All Star.


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## Fulong (Oct 3, 2007)

Id said:


> Superman is acting on his highest power level, with out sundiping.
> Goku is at SS3 (no time limit).
> 
> 
> ...



Silver Age Superman has done lots of crazy stuffs. So he take this very easily
Post Crisis may not take this easily, but he still has the majority of the match through his insane heat vision.
So Superman wins anyway.


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Its post crisis,all star would be murder on a sick level,even if goku has it he has to concentrate and lock onto ki to use it so its not changing anything,im standing by my statement that a bloodlusted supes just opens with all out heat vision and goku dies.


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## Id (Oct 3, 2007)

Fulong said:


> Silver Age Superman has done lots of crazy stuffs. So he take this very easily
> Post Crisis may not take this easily, but he still has the majority of the match through his insane heat vision.
> So Superman wins anyway.



Oh let me clarify that. Its post crisis Superman (or post Silver Age).


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## Banhammer (Oct 3, 2007)

Dosen't silver age superman have mindrape?


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

This is post crisis.


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## Fulong (Oct 3, 2007)

I have already stated my answer for post-crisis since he's bloodlusted anyway. Bloodlustded Post Crisis Superman just kill Goku with his insane heat vision in my last post.


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

Goku wins with relative ease. Goku knocks off Supes head with one punch. SS3 is too much overkill.Supes heat vision is overrated. Read ma sig, thats what happens when supes faces Goku.
Mods close this thread down because any and everyone who thinks Goku will win will be called trolls, this is pointless


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Superman is so far ahead of goku physically its not funny,and his heat vision is hardly overrated,your the only troll in this thread.


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

Goku as Super Saiyan was punching with 40tons on each arm like it was nothing


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## Wesker (Oct 3, 2007)

Goku may be the better martial artist but supes heat vision is too powerful and he has too much durability.


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## Wesker (Oct 3, 2007)

Oh boy here comes pyron.


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> Goku as Super Saiyan was punching with 40tons on each arm like it was nothing



Superman moves entire planets,and punches moons in half,holds mini blackholes in his hands and white dwarf stars,his heat vision years ago while under  a red sun is enough to propell a planet in space,his heat vision is also hotter then stars so good luck proving goku can survive that.


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## Gunners (Oct 3, 2007)

> Superman moves entire planets,and punches moons in half.


A planet weights more than 40 tons right?


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Jio said:


> A planet weights more than 40 tons right?



Just slightly.


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

feitan said:


> Superman moves entire planets,and punches moons in half,holds mini blackholes in his hands and white dwarf stars,his heat vision years ago while under  a red sun is enough to propell a planet in space,his heat vision is also hotter then stars so good luck proving goku can survive that.



Scans or it didnt happen. i dont wanna see stupid pics of Supes blowing up planets the size of his head.
Goku's punches changed tha landscape on the planet of the KAI's, he also pushed apart a huge cliff at SS2


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Lets start it out slow then,superman from 7 years ago(weaker then current by a longshot)destroying a small moon
.


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

Goku could easily blow up a moon. Roshi blew the moon up from earth, Goku could do it 100000000 times over


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## Fang (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks for making such a one-sided thread, Id. Anyway, Goku might be able to keep pace with Supes but he doesn't have the strength or power to take him down. Supes kills Goku.


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> Goku could easily blow up a moon. Roshi blew the moon up from earth, Goku could do it 100000000 times over



We arent talking about what they can blow up,we are comparing physical strength since you believe goku is supermans superior,now post a scan of something superior to what I posted.


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## Arishem (Oct 3, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> Goku as Super Saiyan was punching with 40tons on each arm like it was nothing



Are you serious? Mentioning 40 tons as something impressive, inside a thread featuring Superman as a contender of all people, shows an incredible amount of ignorance. Here's a real life example of that kind of weight.  
 You should be able to tell that moving a celestial body aka moon or planet makes Goku's feat microscopic in comparison.

This is a common issue with most anime/manga fans: they usually are badly informed about comic characters. On that subject, is anyone going to make a Superman respect thread? I saw one on KMC that was pretty comprehensive. It had a shitload of great feats too. I think that having one present on NF would go a long way to prevent any underestimating of Kal-El.


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

Punching and kicking with ten tons on each limp is more impressive than lifting 40tons


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

And busting a moon is much more impressive.


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## The Internet (Oct 3, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> Punching and kicking with ten tons on each limp is more impressive than lifting 40tons



Because I mean Superman has never destroyed planets with a single punch before.

Never.


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

URL=http://imageshack.us][/URL]





Goku Defeating Burter. Supes would definately have been hit


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Wow he can hit the ginyu force,clearly superior to moon busting with a punch,you going to continue to fail or are you going to actually try and post something of relevance,and superman keeps up with the flash so try again.


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

He keeps up with tha flash in running not fighting speed


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Hes fought at super speeds many many times,im not hating on goku im just not beating off to him over the internet like some seem to like to do.


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

feitan said:


> Hes fought at super speeds many many times,im not hating on goku im just not beating off to him over the internet like some seem to like to do.



Kinda like how you do with Superman huh


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## Arishem (Oct 3, 2007)

This is a low end strength feat for Superman. I'm going to be back once I find scans from his fight with an Imperiex Probe. He's so fast that it appears that multiple Supermans are hitting the same probe with different kinds of attacks at the same time.


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> Kinda like how you do with Superman huh



Not really,I just represent the facts about superman against you and the rest of the dbz owns all brigade.


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## Wesker (Oct 3, 2007)

I hope the mods get over here soon to take care of pyron. Btw pyron wiithout instant transmission goku can not go 99 percent light speed unlike supes.


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## Arishem (Oct 3, 2007)

Here Superman is unfazed by a blow from the demon Etrigan, a blow that knocks him all the way to the moon.


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

He can fight at speeds Superman cant even dream of. Supes gets tagged by Batman, Goku wouldnt even be touched by him. Goku's fighting speed is to fast for Supes, he is just as durable and is a better fighter. Goku bloodlusted is overkill, I.T faster than Supes


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> He can fight at speeds Superman cant even dream of. Supes gets tagged by Batman, Goku wouldnt even be touched by him. Goku's fighting speed is to fast for Supes, he is just as durable and is a better fighter. Goku bloodlusted is overkill, I.T faster than Supes



Not really,superman is much much more durable,supes fights and moves at speeds goku would cream himself thinking about,supes has more fighting experience then goku ever will,superman bloodlusted wins in the first .0000000000001 seconds of the fight with allout heat vision completelly obliterating goku,and batman has never tagged superman when superman didnt want him to.


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## Arishem (Oct 3, 2007)

I call major bullshit. Batman can't even react to Superman under normal circumstances. Like here for example:


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

Goku took Freeza's death beam to the face and shrugged it off. the same death beam that manages to go thru everything


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

feitan said:


> Not really,superman is much much more durable,supes fights and moves at speeds goku would cream himself thinking about,supes has more fighting experience then goku ever will,superman bloodlusted wins in the first .0000000000001 seconds of the fight with allout heat vision completelly obliterating goku,and batman has never tagged superman when superman didnt want him to.



Goku was born a figheter, trained since he could walk, so how does Supes have more fighting experience? throwing wild punches isnt much


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> Goku took Freeza's death beam to the face and shrugged it off. the same death beam that manages to go thru everything



Went through a bunch of weaklings omg,supes survives black holes,planet destroyers and supernovas,and heres one of supes speed feats(this supes is weaker and slower then current)
goku isnt surviving an onslaught like that.


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## Arishem (Oct 3, 2007)

Here Superman survives a planet exploding right in his face. 

*Spoiler*: __


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

lol Goku would laff at that. Freeza death beam>>>>Heat vision


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Not really,no dbz character can survive allout heat vision its hotter then stars and he can cover entire planets in it,if you dont put up a real argument your going on ignore for being the troll you are.


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## Id (Oct 3, 2007)

Lets not forget the rules.
*
Rules*
Blood Lusted
No PIS
No Jobbing
No CIS

Batman able to keep up with a serious Superman, with out some form of aid is PIS.


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## Arishem (Oct 3, 2007)

Superman is an incredibly skilled and knowledgeable fighter. In these scans he incapacitates Batman, who is using kryptonite to supress his power, by hitting a pressure point on Bruce's body.

*Spoiler*: __


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

Nice feats but could he survive Cells selfd destruct? i dont think so. Theres no such thing as PIS. If it is written it is written


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Could he survive cells self destruct which only destroyed a small planet and didnt even harm snake way...supes would laugh at it,again supes survives exploding planets,supernovas,and black holes.


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## Wesker (Oct 3, 2007)

He is trolling just stop feeding him untill the mods log back on.


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## byakugan_warrior (Oct 3, 2007)

ya'll may not agree with me, but im going with goku


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## Wesker (Oct 3, 2007)

Why are you going with Goku?


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## omgbbq (Oct 3, 2007)

goku's style of fighting > superman.  technique > power

goku wins this


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

byakugan_warrior said:


> ya'll may not agree with me, but im going with goku



Your right I dont agree with the slower weaker and less durable character winning,A bloodlusted superman would do nothing short of dominate goku.


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## Wesker (Oct 3, 2007)

I do agree that the fighting skill will go to Goku but seriously he does not have enough advantage in skill to beat superman. Not even close.


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## Arishem (Oct 3, 2007)

Since when does wailing on your opponent like a retard and spamming energy blasts equal a good fighting style or skills?


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## mystictrunks (Oct 3, 2007)

Goku hits Superman with his magic pole.


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## Wesker (Oct 3, 2007)

Trick shot the early dragonball which would be before dbz has more martial arts in it it isn't all spamming ki blasts it really does not have spamming of ki blasts until piccolo.


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

mystictrunks said:


> Goku hits Superman with his magic pole.



Supes has been knocked to the moon by magical characters,and taken hits from people of his level physically(and being enhanced by magic)and was just fine.


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## Arishem (Oct 3, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Trick shot the early dragonball which would be before dbz has more martial arts in it it isn't all spamming ki blasts it really does not have spamming of ki blasts until piccolo.



I know that, but DBZ's fights consist of what I mentioned. On the other hand, there are a ton of scans showing Superman using wrestling, grappling, and martial arts techniques. He also uses his abilities in creative ways to exploit or even create weaknesses in his opponents. I'll post them once I feel my collection is comprehensive enough.


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## Tuxx (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm surprised this hasn't been closed. >< 

Remember when Darkseid thought he killed Kara, and Clark went all bloodlusted/crazy/rage and dragged him off near/into the sun fighting him there and later boomed near the source wall and threw him there.  Yeah... same result.


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## Birkin (Oct 3, 2007)

Let's face it

Goku is a better character than Superman ever will be.

Spirit Bomb > Fiction


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Goku doesnt beat superman in any area,be it character,willpower,strength speed durability,and gokus skill consists of superpowered fast punches and kicks thats not skill thats just being superhuman,superman has fought depowered before and actually uses skill.


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## Birkin (Oct 3, 2007)

Superman uses skill? Since when?

Goku is a trained martial artist. If you actually ranked top FIGHTERS, you'd get DB characters up on top.


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

What he did to bats,and many others times,superman has fought people completelly depowered before,dbz characters wouldnt be ranked anywhere near top anything,batman and kk and ww>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dbz skills because dbz characters have no skills,punching and kicking really fast isnt skill.


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## mystictrunks (Oct 3, 2007)

You rarely need anything else in a fight to be honest.


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## Birkin (Oct 3, 2007)

Dragon Ball, not Z, was all about skill. What has Clark ever done? Exposing a weakness is skill?


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## Purgatory (Oct 3, 2007)

...Didn't CGB make it clear that is anyone made ONE MORE Superman V.S. Goku thread, that they'd get permed?


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Goku said:


> Dragon Ball, not Z, was all about skill. What has Clark ever done? Exposing a weakness is skill?



Hes fought completelly unpowered against martials artists like batman,and db skills went out the window after picollo after that it was all about who had the biggest power level and energy attack,superman wins this he is gokus superior in just about every way imaginable.


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## Birkin (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm not saying Goku would win in a fight. BUT saying Superman has MORE skill than a trained martial artist, is biasness talking.

I don't know shit about comics, but from the movies, when was Batman ever trained? Being able to beat a stronger opponent than yourself wasn't all about powerlevels either. Look at Frieza first half. Goku had him.

Also, Goku's personality is far more enjoyable than Superman's.
Goku has the humour
Goku is overall more interesting.


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## Endless Mike (Oct 3, 2007)

I thought these threads were banned


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## Kenpachi_Uchiha (Oct 3, 2007)

This thread is allowed as long as theres no trolling/flaming in this thread. Other threads of this same has been derailed before. 

Anyway Superman>Goku.


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## Arishem (Oct 3, 2007)

*Superman has no skill?*



Trick Shot said:


> Superman is an incredibly skilled and knowledgeable fighter. In these scans he incapacitates Batman, who is using kryptonite to supress his power, by hitting a pressure point on Bruce's body.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


Here a depowered Superman thrashes a bunch of thugs and even pulls a Captain America:

Here he headbutts an opponent at close range and follows up with a chop to the neck:

Here's a depowered Superman fights a female martial arts master on top of a moving train:


Blocks the high sweeping kick, the uppercut, and left hook, and... 

Hooks the arm, kicks her legs out, and flips the girl over...
Here he uses a combo to get into position to choke his enemy out:

Here he uses a speedblitz to get into a grappling position:

Here without his powers he shows amazing acrobatic ability:


Here he uses his x-ray vision to detect broken bones and proceeds to finger jab the wounded area:

Here he uses a pressure point to paralyze his opponent:

Here he uses pressure points to knock out an enemy yet again:

All of this is a small fraction of the skills he shows in battle.


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## Ippy (Oct 3, 2007)

I'll let this run it's course.

As long as it doesn't resort to flaming, it should be fine.


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## Purgatory (Oct 3, 2007)

Haterade said:


> I'll let this run it's course.
> 
> As long as it doesn't resort to flaming, it should be fine.



You do realize you're going against CBG's word, right? 

Also, you of all people should know it's going to be filled with "ZOMG LIEK GOKU PAWNS SOOPERMAN!" posts within the next few pages.


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## Ippy (Oct 3, 2007)

Corrupt Vergil said:


> You do realize you're going against CBG's word, right?


ALMASETI'S HINA DEFENSE IS FUCKING WIN
ALMASETI'S HINA DEFENSE IS FUCKING WIN



Corrupt Vergil said:


> Also, you of all people should know it's going to be filled with "ZOMG LIEK GOKU PAWNS SOOPERMAN!" posts within the next few pages.


Most of the individuals that make those types of posts have been perm section banned.


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## Darklyre (Oct 3, 2007)

mystictrunks said:


> Goku hits Superman with his magic pole.


 
That wouldn't do much. Being weak to magic simply means that he is no more resistant to magical forces than a normal human. If a magically-empowered being hits him or uses magical energy in a physical manner, his superpowered durability works as normal. It's when you bring in things like Zatanna's spells or transmutation that he loses the advantage. 

Buu hitting him would go up against his bioelectric aura. Babidi using a spell would completely ignore it.


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## Id (Oct 3, 2007)

Corrupt Vergil said:


> You do realize you're going against CBG's word, right?
> 
> Also, you of all people should know it's going to be filled with "ZOMG LIEK GOKU PAWNS SOOPERMAN!" posts within the next few pages.



Maybe because you have bin away for a while.
CBG is gone.
2 (well 3) mods, have approved.
And its a Reset, clean start.


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## Basilikos (Oct 3, 2007)

Is this thread for real? Superman rapestomps.

I wish the fanboys would stop saying that Goku wins. Seriously, feitan and Trick Shot have laid the facts before you with scans and you all still will not concede.

DBZverse is NOT the strongest verse in existence. What about this is so hard to understand? DBZ is NOT FTL. They canNOT destroy moons and planets with punches.  -________________-


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## Dragon (banned) (Oct 3, 2007)

Trick Shot said:


> Here a depowered Superman thrashes a bunch of thugs and even pulls a Captain America:
> 
> Here he headbutts an opponent at close range and follows up with a chop to the neck:
> 
> ...



lol, supes got mad skillzzzzzzzz


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

Goku fights faster than Superman, you dont have to be as strong as some one to hurt them. Flash's punches are like a normal mans just 1000000times faster and he still seems to hurt Supes. Goku is definately Class100 strenght, he is a faster, smarter, better overall fighter than Supes. What is lifting a huge boulder gonna do to someone who can teleport? Goku and Supes fight for a bit, Supes is a lil bit too much so Goku goes straight to Super Saiyan 2, Supes misses every punch, Goku gets all his hits and finishes up with a Kamehameha. Since we are using manga Goku his energy attacks dont take long to charge and are almost instantanious.


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## Wesker (Oct 3, 2007)

Show scans or get out pyron.


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## The Sentry (Oct 3, 2007)

Goku taking a death beam to the face, the same death beam that easilly pierces matter


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## The Internet (Oct 3, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> Goku taking a death beam to the face, the same death beam that *easilly pierces matter*



lolwhut

Hey guys, I just stabbed a piece of meat, I just easily pierced matter.


You're really showing how ignorant on Supes you are, he's taken Galaxy destroying attacks and survived.


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## Arishem (Oct 3, 2007)

Show the death beam penetrating something else. It's a totally useless scan, since we don't know how powerful it is. "Easily pierces matter" also has to be one of the vaguest statements ever. Anything from air molecules to a rock is made out of matter.

Pyron, you shouldn't make any more statements about comic characters. Blows from the Flash cause a large amount of damage when he's going at high speed. Due to the Speed Force, he can transfer all of his kinetic energy from going at such monstrous velocities without any ill effects to himself. His infinite mass punch would kill Goku.


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## Graham Aker (Oct 3, 2007)

I dunno about Galaxy destroying attacks but, he did absorb energies that could wipe out half the Galaxy while he was physically and mentally exhausted.

Lawl piercing matter.


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## Orion (Oct 3, 2007)

Death beam,its in your battledome piercing all your matter,try harder then that,heat vision is hotter then stars and supes can cover entire planets in it,you got a long way to go to proving death beam is even as strong as supes using a casual blast of it.


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## Fang (Oct 4, 2007)

Well I remember Freeza busting mountains with his Death Beam, but that's about it.


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## The Sentry (Oct 4, 2007)

Spectre said:


> lolwhut
> 
> Hey guys, I just stabbed a piece of meat, I just easily pierced matter.
> 
> ...



Like what. if it didnt destroy a galaxy it is not Galaxy destroyin. Lol im doin what you guys do to DB. If it didnt destroy the planet its not planet destroying its hyperbole


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## Coffee Mug (Oct 4, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> Like what. if it didnt destroy a galaxy it is not Galaxy destroyin. Lol im doin what you guys do to DB. If it didnt destroy the planet its not planet destroying its hyperbole



The Galaxy wasn?t destroyed because he absorbed all of the energy that was going to vaporize half of the Milky Way before it detonated, and contained all that energy within him. He absorbed all the energy so that it couldn?t destroy the half of the Galaxy.

No one in Dragonball has done anything of the sort.

Anyway, Bryne Era Superman survived the explosion of the Sun-Eater. A Sun-Eater is several magnitudes bigger than a planet, seeing as how it eats Suns.


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## The Sentry (Oct 4, 2007)

Jimmy Page said:


> The Galaxy wasn?t destroyed because he absorbed all of the energy that was going to vaporize half of the Milky Way before it detonated, and contained all that energy within him. He absorbed all the energy so that it couldn?t destroy the half of the Galaxy.
> 
> No one in Dragonball has done anything of the sort.
> 
> Anyway, Bryne Era Superman survived the explosion of the Sun-Eater. A Sun-Eater is several magnitudes bigger than a planet, seeing as how it eats Suns.



But did it destroy the Milky Way? No Did it even damage the Milky Way? No. So it was hyperbole


----------



## Sōsuke Aizen (Oct 4, 2007)

supes takes this overall.


----------



## Coffee Mug (Oct 4, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> But did it destroy the Milky Way? No Did it even damage the Milky Way? No. So it was hyperbole



It didn?t destroy the Milky Way because he absorbed *all* of the energy before the warhead detonated. He contained it *all* within him.


----------



## The Sentry (Oct 4, 2007)

But how do we know it could have really destroyed the galaxy? It was hyperbole


----------



## Coffee Mug (Oct 4, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> But how do we know it could have really destroyed the galaxy? It was hyperbole



#1. Because it was said by a Martian Manhunter who had probed Mageddon?s mind.

#2. Mageddon was one of the weapons that were used by the Old Gods, and led to the destruction of their Universe and the creation of The New Gods.

#3. Grant Morrison said he designed Mageddon to be the ultimate weapon. In the WWIII arc it was hinted that Mageddon?s warhead would have destroyed ?all of creation? (Now that is what would be considered hyperbole) .    

#4. The warhead was a fail-safe that would destroy Mageddon as well, and Mageddon itself dwarfed our Solar System.


----------



## The Sentry (Oct 4, 2007)

Jimmy Page said:


> #1. Because it was said by a Martian Manhunter who had probed Mageddon?s mind.
> 
> #2. Mageddon was one of the weapons that were used by the Old Gods, and led to the destruction of their Universe and the creation of The New Gods.
> 
> ...



1.Martian Manhunter isnt all-knowing
2.The Old universe could have been weaker than the new one
3.The ultimate weapon doesnt mean it can destroy galaxies
4.It could just intercept not destroy Mageddon

Lol Superman fans dont like it when i bring up hyperbole do they. This hyperbole crap can work both ways.


----------



## Coffee Mug (Oct 4, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> 1.Martian Manhunter isnt all-knowing
> 2.The Old universe could have been weaker than the new one
> 3.The ultimate weapon doesnt mean it can destroy galaxies
> 4.It could just intercept not destroy Mageddon
> ...



#1. But he had probed Mageddon?s mind, so he would know how much damage the warhead would be capable of inflicting.

#2. Not likely. The Old Gods were more powerful than the New Gods. Apokalips has been said to be the size of our Galaxy when compared to planets in the mainstream Universe.

And your assumption is completely unsupported. I can do the same thing and say that planets in the Dragonballverse are very fragile and weak when compared to planets in other Universes. 

But I'm not biased, so I won't do that.

#3. That?s what the author intended it to be able to do. 

#4. What the hell are you talking about? The warhead was inside of Mageddon. It would destroy it, and vaporize half of the Galaxy.

Go read the comics. It would really help you understand what was going on in the story. And it's a good read.


----------



## Orion (Oct 4, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> 1.Martian Manhunter isnt all-knowing
> 2.The Old universe could have been weaker than the new one
> 3.The ultimate weapon doesnt mean it can destroy galaxies
> 4.It could just intercept not destroy Mageddon
> ...



Martian manhunter probing somethings mind and knowing what its going to do is completelly different then cell boasting he can destroy a solar system when kid buu who was stronger couldnt,your just an idiot and dont see that.


----------



## The Sentry (Oct 4, 2007)

No its not. Kid Buu is fun loving he wouldnt destroy the universe outright because he wants to enjoy himself. i bet if Supes stated he could destroy a solar system you idiots would say its true. Am i right? Did Kid Buu ever try to destroy the solar system? No he was focused on Goku and Earth. Cell's energy was focused on Gohan not earth the energy he had was enough to destroy the solar system. You fail. Close thread mods its going nowhere


----------



## Orion (Oct 4, 2007)

Kid buu when he was on a murderous rampage only destroyed a bunch of planets,if kid buu was a solar system+buster he would have destroyed most of the dbzverse considering dbz only has 4 galaxies,kid buu had no reason to hold back but only earth got destroyed,cells boasting means nothing he is a villian,if it had said in narration''cell the power to destroy all life in a solar system''or something like that I wouldnt have a problem with it but all it was is cells shit talking which was completelly disproven,you claimed goku was stronger then supes,not true I owned any argument you had just with one of supes lower end feats,you claim goku is more durable,he died from a planet buster and supes has survived solar system+attacks,you claim he is a faster fighter also not true,you claim he is a better fighter and that got disproven as well,the only idiot here is you.


----------



## The Sentry (Oct 4, 2007)

Martian Manhunter is shit talking also.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Oct 4, 2007)

....
This thread is pointless. 8 threads and over 10,000 post------------SSj3 Goku's maximum power level is and will always be unknown. There is no basis for comparison.


----------



## Orion (Oct 4, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> Martian Manhunter is shit talking also.



Right cause jonn totally lies all the time and boasts like cell...o wait no he doesnt.


----------



## The Sentry (Oct 4, 2007)

When did Cell ever lie? Show scans please. MMH and Superman boast alot.


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> When did Cell ever lie? Show scans please. MMH and Superman boast alot.



Superman and mm are some of the most humble superheroes out there,cell lied about solar system destroying obviously since a.he didnt even destroyed earth when the attacks collided and b. a much stronger person only killed earth with a big attack,the difference between killing earth and killing earth along with the rest of the solar system in one blast is much more then 10 or even 100 times the energy.


----------



## Fang (Oct 5, 2007)

feitan said:


> Superman and mm are some of the most humble superheroes out there,cell lied about solar system destroying obviously since a.he didnt even destroyed earth when the attacks collided and b. a much stronger person only killed earth with a big attack.



Your insane if you don't think he wouldn't have busted the Earth had he won against Gohan. Maybe he was just over-rating his power but he wasn't honestly lying outright.


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

He was honestly lying outright when he talked about solar system destroying,he could destroy every planet in the solar system no doubt by flying to each one and destroying it,but no way could he do it all at the same time,he can destroy a planet theres no contest there,most of the energy was being focused on each other but still if they were both solar system destroyers(which if cell was then gohan was)2 solar system destroyers throwing energy at each other atleast 1 planet would be destroyed in the colliding.


----------



## The Sentry (Oct 5, 2007)

The MMH was lying about that weopon because it obviously didnt destroy the Galaxy


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Because superman absorbed it,for your claim to have any merit at all cell or even buu would have to had destroyed more then one planet at a time.


----------



## Perfect Moron (Oct 5, 2007)

To sum up Pyron's argument: We don't know that weapon can destroy a galaxy, because it was stated by MMH, who is known to lie. When did he lie, you ask? Well, when he stated that weapon can destroy a galaxy!


----------



## The Sentry (Oct 5, 2007)

feitan said:


> Because superman absorbed it,for your claim to have any merit at all cell or even buu would have to had destroyed more then one planet at a time.



The reason the planet or Solar system wasnt destroyed was because Gohan concentrated it on CELL and only CELL, he didnt want to realeae it wildly because he feared he would destroy the Earth. Everyone from Piccollo level to ss2 gohan level can destroy the earth with ease, why else would Vegeta, Trunks(does he lie?),Piccolo(does he lie?), Goku(does he lie?) say that Cell's kamehameha that Gohans countered could destroy the earth? Were all 7 lying?  
It can go both ways, I say cell can destroy a solar system, you say he cant cos it didnt happen, and vice-versa for that weopon thing


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Oct 5, 2007)

a powrlevel of 10 thousand is need to bust a planet

cell's was in the millions....


----------



## Birkin (Oct 5, 2007)

Gecko4lif said:


> a powrlevel of 10 thousand is need to bust a planet
> 
> cell's was in the millions....



Final Form 1% Frieza had a power level of 1 million XD


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Goku said:


> Final Form 1% Frieza had a power level of 1 million XD



More like 1.5million or so,his power level at 50% was 60 mil.


----------



## Birkin (Oct 5, 2007)

Was that ever stated? I can't really remember if it was or not.

Still, it was 50+ millions.


----------



## Fang (Oct 5, 2007)

I don't remember that. I remember Planet Namek having the translated Databook on DB and it had Final Form Freeza 100% at 13,000,000.


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

The White Fang said:


> I don't remember that. I remember Planet Namek having the translated Databook on DB and it had Final Form Freeza 100% at 13,000,000.



120mil from the ones I seen,ssj goku was 150.


----------



## Fang (Oct 5, 2007)

No. And I wish I could post the databook profile but the site has been done since 02.


----------



## Birkin (Oct 5, 2007)

Episode something was even entitled "Power Level over one million?!" and Frieza was 1% under the whole episode.

And yes, it's actually canon.


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

The White Fang said:


> No. And I wish I could post the databook profile but the site has been done since 02.



Link removed
120mil,so when he was nuking vegeta he was at 60mil which means someone with a power level of 10thousand isnt coming close to killing a planet.


----------



## Fang (Oct 5, 2007)

To be honest that looks like an extra o in Goku 12,000,000 from your copy. But I can't really say, because I don't have my old databook any more from my old computer.


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Right well until you prove it was shoped my scan is standing,and even if it was then frieza was 6mil when he tried and still failed so my point still stands.


----------



## Fang (Oct 5, 2007)

I was thinking of a mistranslation, not photoshoped....


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

The White Fang said:


> I was thinking of a mistranslation, not photoshoped....



Heres the jap version
its still saying the same thing.


----------



## The Sentry (Oct 5, 2007)

Freeza failed onpurpose because he wanted to fight Goku.


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Pyron700 said:


> Freeza failed onpurpose because he wanted to fight Goku.



Im sure thats what you tell yourself at night.


----------



## omni1337 (Oct 5, 2007)

Lol, guys. Superman lost to Doomsday. If i'm not mistaken after he is beaten he gets stronger, correct? Even so Doomsday will never reach a level of strenght that Goku had, and superman lost to Doomsday.
Its quite obvious Goku would win. 
Also Bloodlusted superman is being unfair, why not allow goku to go full out aswell, his speed is easily the fastest in any comic/manga ever.

Superman may be a God.
But Goku surpasses even that of a God.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Oct 5, 2007)

Power16 said:


> its like you want me to neg rep you.......have t......o....do.....it.....ahhh i resisted!



I am going o do it for you k


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

omni1337 said:


> Lol, guys. Superman lost to Doomsday. If i'm not mistaken after he is beaten he gets stronger, correct? Even so Doomsday will never reach a level of strenght that Goku had, and superman lost to Doomsday.
> Its quite obvious Goku would win.
> Also Bloodlusted superman is being unfair, why not allow goku to go full out aswell, his speed is easily the fastest in any comic/manga ever.
> 
> ...



Doomsday beat a superman whos 100x weaker then current supes,goku only surpasses shitty dbz gods,goku going fullout wont change superman man handling him like a child.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Oct 5, 2007)

It was SHOWN cannon that in the sayain saga sayains nuke planets and it was stated cannon that 10k power level is needed to nuke a planet

freiza failed because he held to much back


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Gecko4lif said:


> It was SHOWN cannon that in the sayain saga sayains nuke planets and it was stated cannon that 10k power level is needed to nuke a planet
> 
> freiza failed because he held to much back



No it wasnt,that scence with vegeta never really happened,frieza using 1% of his power is over 1mil your still failing.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Oct 5, 2007)

feitan said:


> No it wasnt,that scence with vegeta never really happened,frieza using 1% of his power is over 1mil your still failing.



He didnt say he was using 1% of his power to nuke the planet he said he was using 1% of it to fight goku


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Exactly my point....he was at 50% when fighting goku,if he was using even 1% of his strength he was at over 1mil,you cant argue he wasnt using even 1%.


----------



## Wesker (Oct 5, 2007)

This thread is starting to turn out like the old goku vs superman.


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> This thread is starting to turn out like the old goku vs superman.



You mean goku fans making wild claims never backing them up and no matter how many times you prove them wrong they say the same thing over and over again?yea its starting to turn that way again.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Oct 5, 2007)

feitan said:


> Exactly my point....he was at 50% when fighting goku,if he was using even 1% of his strength he was at over 1mil,you cant argue he wasnt using even 1%.



the non-nuked plant would seem to state differently


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Gecko4lif said:


> the non-nuked plant would seem to state differently



Right,frieza was clearly not using 1/1000th of his power when he wanted goku to die...or frieza cant nuke a planet completelly and has to core it...second one is much more logical,buu can only bust a planet and hes much stronger then frieza or cell,come back with a real argument or be quiet,the vegeta nuking a planet scene  never happened and no one bellow frieza can destroy planets.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Oct 5, 2007)

feitan said:


> Right,frieza was clearly not using 1/1000th of his power when he wanted goku to die...or frieza cant nuke a planet completelly and has to core it...second one is much more logical,buu can only bust a planet and hes much stronger then frieza or cell,come back with a real argument or be quiet,the vegeta nuking a planet scene  never happened and no one bellow frieza can destroy planets.



Cis would cause freiza not to use 1/1000th of his power

freiza nukeed a planet in his first form

planet vegeta remeber?


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Never happened on panel remember?like I said make a real argument and stop saying the same shit over and over.


----------



## Birkin (Oct 5, 2007)

Nuking of Planet Vegeta did happen, you can't deny it.


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Goku said:


> Nuking of Planet Vegeta did happen, you can't deny it.



Never shown in first form,he killed bardock then transformed to kill the planet for all we know,him doing it in first form is contradicted by latter in a much more powerful form not being able to nuke a planet.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Oct 5, 2007)

feitan said:


> Never happened on panel remember?like I said make a real argument and stop saying the same shit over and over.



nuking is nuking regardless if it is on panel or not


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Gecko4lif said:


> nuking is nuking regardless if it is on panel or not



Not really,we dont know how frieza did it,he could have went final form and cored the planet like he did to namek and then it blew up later,you cant say he outright nuked the planet in first form,so again make a real argument because frieza is completelly contradicted by not only himself but buu and cell as well,superman is stronger,more durable,more intelligent and can end this match in the first microseconds it starts with allout heat vision.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Oct 5, 2007)

feitan said:


> Not really,we dont know how frieza did it,he could have went final form and cored the planet like he did to namek and then it blew up later,you cant say he outright nuked the planet in first form,so again make a real argument because frieza is completelly contradicted by not only himself but buu and cell as well,superman is stronger,more durable,more intelligent and can end this match in the first microseconds it starts with allout heat vision.



i was the first person to say supes wins so shut it

and if freiza has nuked a planet before he obviously know roughly how much power it takes

If he needed to go all out to nuke it he would have done it


----------



## Birkin (Oct 5, 2007)

feitan said:


> Never shown in first form,he killed bardock then transformed to kill the planet for all we know,him doing it in first form is contradicted by latter in a much more powerful form not being able to nuke a planet.



Frieza summoned the Death Ball with one finger and killed Bardock with it. That same ball was the one that killed all the Saiyans and destroyed the planet.

Frieza had to be much quicker in his fight with Goku, or he would've been stopped. Also, it's of my knowledge that Planet Vegeta is not as big as Namek.


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Gecko4lif said:


> i was the first person to say supes wins so shut it
> 
> and if freiza has nuked a planet before he obviously know roughly how much power it takes
> 
> If he needed to go all out to nuke it he would have done it



Except we dont know if he has outright nuked a planet before,for all we know he was only strong enough to core  a planet of that size,kid buu someone much stronger only destroyed one planet and he had no reason to hold back,cells omg solar sytstem buster destroyed one small planet thats it,dbz chars arent solar system or galaxy busters they are planet busters thats it,and again the deathball was never shown in thee manga,we see frieza point at bardock and he dies nothing else.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Oct 5, 2007)

feitan said:


> Except we dont know if he has outright nuked a planet before,for all we know he was only strong enough to core  a planet of that size,kid buu someone much stronger only destroyed one planet and he had no reason to hold back,cells omg solar sytstem buster destroyed one small planet thats it,dbz chars arent solar system or galaxy busters they are planet busters thats it,and again the deathball was never shown in thee manga,we see frieza point at bardock and he dies nothing else.



it wouldn be to much to assume that he has outright nucked a planet i mean jackie chun fucked up the moon with a power level in the hundreds


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Difference between busting a planet and busting a moon is phenomenal,it is too much to assume he can since it took someone much much stronger to do it.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Oct 5, 2007)

feitan said:


> Difference between busting a planet and busting a moon is phenomenal,it is too much to assume he can since it took someone much much stronger to do it.



not really

it is simple math

Take jackie's power = moon
The see how many times the earth is bigger then the moon

That number is the powerlevel you would need to bust earth


Simple see? 
108
The moon is 3,474.8 km in diameter
the earth is 12,756. 274 km in diameter

which means earth is ~3.67108150 times larger then the moon


----------



## Darklyre (Oct 5, 2007)

Gecko4lif said:


> not really
> 
> it is simple math
> 
> ...



That assumes that the energy required grows linearly with amount of destruction. That would be a wrong assumption, since you have absolutely no corroborating evidence.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Oct 5, 2007)

Gecko4lif said:


> not really
> 
> it is simple math
> 
> ...





Darklyre said:


> That assumes that the energy required grows linearly with amount of destruction. That would be a wrong assumption, since you have absolutely no corroborating evidence.



more power = bigger exsplosion

what part of this is wrong?


----------



## Birkin (Oct 5, 2007)

I still didn't see you respond to my above post.


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

Gecko4lif said:


> more power = bigger exsplosion
> 
> what part of this is wrong?



Explosions dont grow linearly with power,and power levels arent a linear growth either,again kid buu and cell only busted planets.


----------



## King Bookah (Oct 5, 2007)

Well obviously Freeza would not blow up a planet that he's still on, so ofcourse he wouldn't use his most powerful blast the destroy the planet.  If we all payed attention, we'd know Freeza was banking on escaping before the planet blew up.  Now he couldn't escape if he blew the planet up while he was on it, could he?


----------



## Orion (Oct 5, 2007)

He was banking on goku dying from lack of oxygen,all later feats contradict frieza being able to vaporize a planet.


----------



## The Sentry (Oct 6, 2007)

Freeza did destroy planet vegeta. Vegeta, Dodoria and Goku cmfirmed it. AKIRA TORIYAMA SAID SO. It was shown in the Bardock movie that became CANNON


----------



## Fang (Oct 6, 2007)

Bardock's Lonely Final Battle is essentially approved by Toriyama since it was built into the premise of his manga, Feitan. Him one shoting Planet Vegeta at his weakest form with a single finger without even trying shows he can do it.

Anyway, energy released from a planet busting attack > planet's explosion.


----------



## Arishem (Oct 6, 2007)

It just goes to show you how utterly inconsistent DBZ is. A weakened final form Freeza only manages to core Namek after charging a blast, when he was able to destroy a planet casually two forms prior.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Oct 6, 2007)

feitan said:


> Explosions dont grow linearly with power,and power levels arent a linear growth either,again kid buu and cell only busted planets.



are you really suggesting that you need a power level 10,000's of multitudes larger to destroy something 3 times the size of what someone blew up eailier.... are you fucking kidding me


----------



## Fang (Oct 6, 2007)

Freeza was getting mauled by Goku as a Super Saiyan before going full out, he had fought Gohan, Vegeta, Kuirrin, Piccolo, tanked a Genki Dama, got knocked around by Gohan again, was beating on Goku, then getting beaten on before going full power.

Strain, fatigue and stamina could have to do with him not instantly destroying the planet. Or that of a plot hole.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Oct 6, 2007)

or he was worried the outright exsplosion might damage him more

he could have wanted to use the bare minimum to preserve himself


----------



## Arishem (Oct 6, 2007)

I read the manga volume that had his planet coring blast. Freeza himself said that he was too spent to destroy Namek outright. Considering his performance in a much weaker form, even with extreme fatigue, it just doesn't make any sense at all.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Oct 6, 2007)

course it does.... goku with a power level of 150million was fighting a dude with the effective power level of 9,999...


----------



## atom (Oct 7, 2007)

What does Frieza destroying the Saiyan planet have to do with anything?


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 7, 2007)

Wait, Buu is the only one who can fuck over a planet?  What.  The.  Fuck.  That's as stupid as saying Tsunade can beat Goku in melee.  Everyone was shitting themselves when Cell was charging up his kamehameha, plus the whole planet shaking dilemma that always happens in DBZ.  Hell, weaker people than him have done it.


----------



## Orion (Oct 7, 2007)

God Itachi said:


> What does Frieza destroying the Saiyan planet have to do with anything?



It came up when liars like gecko claim you need a power level in the ten thousands to bust a planet.


----------



## Orion (Oct 7, 2007)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Wait, Buu is the only one who can fuck over a planet?  What.  The.  Fuck.  That's as stupid as saying Tsunade can beat Goku in melee.  Everyone was shitting themselves when Cell was charging up his kamehameha, plus the whole planet shaking dilemma that always happens in DBZ.  Hell, weaker people than him have done it.



No what I said was buu is the only canon outright complete planet vaporizer,which he is,frieza wasnt,cell never showed it but could be as well,the point is that people in the tens of thousands pl cant bust planets,and even buu isnt a solar system+buster,shaking a whole planet doesnt=destroying it.


----------



## Ausar (Oct 7, 2007)

About Cell in his second-form destroying North Kaio's planet...it was 10X the gravity of Earth, therefore its 10x as dense as the Earth, right?...

So, if he was able to destroy Earth 10X over at that point, then why would we doubt that he could have enough ki to destroy the solar system at his Super Perfect form?


----------



## Orion (Oct 7, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> dude, use power scaling. if fieza can estroy a planet, in 5 minutes. then im pretty sure cell can easliy one shot one.



Dude use power scaling,buu who was much more powerful is the only planet one shoter,post a scan of cell vaporzing a planet like buu did or gtfo,im tired of dealing with you dbz fanboys,I have proof backing me up you have wild theories.


----------



## Orion (Oct 7, 2007)

Ausar said:


> About Cell in his second-form destroying North Kaio's planet...it was 10X the gravity of Earth, therefore its 10x as dense as the Earth, right?...
> 
> So, if he was able to destroy Earth 10X over at that point, then why would we doubt that he could have enough ki to destroy the solar system at his Super Perfect form?



Umm no,is king kais planet as big as earth?didnt think so,its more like smaller then a city,and the difference in energy between busting a planet and busting a solar system is in the magnitude of over several thousands times.


----------



## Ausar (Oct 7, 2007)

feitan said:


> Umm no,is king kais planet as big as earth?didnt think so,its more like smaller then a city,and the difference in energy between busting a planet and busting a solar system is in the magnitude of over several thousands times.



lol Nevermind, that one didn't work out too well...


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 7, 2007)

feitan said:


> shaking a whole planet doesnt=destroying it.



He did it just by charging up though.


----------



## Orion (Oct 7, 2007)

No can own me because I have the only canon proof so far in this whole goddamn retarded thread,killing a planet by coring it in 5 minutes means cell can destroy it outright even though the only person who did that is much more powerful then him?ummm no,bring anything you want your going to loose.


----------



## Basilikos (Oct 7, 2007)

Wow, this thread is still going eh? Quite off topic too. >_>


----------



## atom (Oct 7, 2007)

feitan said:


> It came up when liars like gecko claim you need a power level in the ten thousands to bust a planet.


Well, if Frieza can destroy a planet, (Just face it, he can). And his power was 100,000 or so. Going with the completely linear and canon Power Level system, anyone with a power level above Frieza's should be able to destroy a planet.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 7, 2007)

Basilikos said:


> Wow, this thread is still going eh? Quite off topic too. >_>



It happens in every Superman vs Goku thread.


----------



## Orion (Oct 7, 2007)

God Itachi said:


> Well, if Frieza can destroy a planet, (Just face it, he can). And his power was 10,000 or so. Going with the completely linear and canon Power Level system, anyone with a power level above Frieza's should be able to destroy a planet.



Frieza powers level in form one was over 100 thousand,and the power level system is anything but linear,face it your wrong.


----------



## Ausar (Oct 7, 2007)

@Feitan-The power levels are exponential then?


----------



## atom (Oct 7, 2007)

feitan said:


> Frieza powers level in form one was over 100 thousand,and the power level system is anything but linear,face it your wrong.


If the Power Level system is not linear, then whats the point of its existence? Someone who has a power level of 100,000 is stronger then one that has 1000. Since when was it NOT linear? 

Also, yes I meant 100,000.


----------



## Orion (Oct 7, 2007)

God Itachi said:


> If the Power Level system is not linear, then whats the point of its existence? Someone who has a power level of 100,000 is stronger then one that has 1000. Since when was it NOT linear?
> 
> Also, yes I meant 100,000.



Of course they are stronger but not 100x stronger,I dont know what to call the power level system but its not linear and sure as hell isnt consistent.


----------



## atom (Oct 7, 2007)

feitan said:


> Of course they are stronger but not 100x stronger,I dont know what to call the power level system but its not linear and sure as hell isnt consistent.


Its canon, and its a linear form of judging strength. It may or may not be consistent, but its canon fact. Its more canon then actual on-panel feats. Someone with a higher power level has never lost to someone with a lower one then theirs.


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## Orion (Oct 7, 2007)

God Itachi said:


> Its canon, and its a linear form of judging strength. It may or may not be consistent, but its canon fact. Its more canon then actual on-panel feats. Someone with a higher power level has never lost to someone with a lower one then theirs.



Again I said they are stronger but they arent 100x stronger,we dont know the exactly details of pl system but someone with a much lower power level can damage people with much higher ones.


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## atom (Oct 7, 2007)

feitan said:


> Again I said they are stronger but they arent 100x stronger,we dont know the exactly details of pl system but someone with a much lower power level can damage people with much higher ones.


When did I say they are 100X stronger? Why are you even bringing them up? A Power Level Unit (PLU) is not a direct measure of direct strength. Its a general overall gauge of strength. 

Someone who has a power level of 1 compared to a power level of 100 may not be a 100 times weaker. But they are merely 99 PLU's weaker. There is no way to determine how much strength converts into 1 PLU though.


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## atom (Oct 7, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> Powerlevels are canon, this is true.  But there's nothing to suggest that they're linear in nature (and in fact, much to suggest they're not).


They are linear, hence why they are in numbers.

100 > 99 is it not?


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## Orion (Oct 7, 2007)

God Itachi said:


> When did I say they are 100X stronger? Why are you even bringing them up? A Power Level Unit (PLU) is not a direct measure of direct strength. Its a general overall gauge of strength.
> 
> Someone who has a power level of 1 compared to a power level of 100 may not be a 100 times weaker. But they are merely 99 PLU's weaker. There is no way to determine how much strength converts into 1 PLU though.



When you said its a linear system you said they would be 100x stronger or do you not know what linear means...by the logic you and alot of others are trying to use if someone has a pl of 10 and another person has a pl of 100 then the person with 100 is 10xstronger faster and more durable which we know to be not true,pls are practically useless because they are so widly inconsistent they have no real barring on a persons true strength in the battledome.


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## EvilMoogle (Oct 7, 2007)

God Itachi said:


> They are linear, hence why they are in numbers.
> 
> 100 > 99 is it not?



But we have no means of gouging what they mean.  A person with a PL of 100 might be 2x as strong as someone with a PL of 50, or 10x or 1.05x.

They're not linear in effect.


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## atom (Oct 7, 2007)

feitan said:


> When you said its a linear system you said they would be 100x stronger or do you not know what linear means...by the logic you and alot of others are trying to use if someone has a pl of 10 and another person has a pl of 100 then the person with 100 is 10xstronger faster and more durable which we know to be not true,pls are practically useless because they are so widly inconsistent they have no real barring on a persons true strength in the battledome.


Please quote me where I said that they are 100times stronger? Its linear, however, there are still other factors.

Since you apparently don't understand, let me try to explain it. When you have a power level of 1PLU your power level is simply 1. If this person tries to fight someone with a PLU of 100, they will lose. Simple as that. That however, does not mean that they are 100 times stronger. Linear does not always mean exactly accurate. Linear means straight. 



> The word linear comes from the Latin word linearis, which means created by lines.



In how I think about it, I think of the Power Level's being on a line graph, and there being little dots and thats their power level, someone with 1 will always be before someone with 100. I did not mean linear in the warped definition that you are using. No author could make a system of such exactness. It would kill the suspense. Hence why he stopped using power levels.


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## Orion (Oct 7, 2007)

God Itachi said:


> Please quote me where I said that they are 100times stronger? Its linear, however, there are still other factors.
> 
> Since you apparently don't understand, let me try to explain it. When you have a power level of 1PLU your power level is simply 1. If this person tries to fight someone with a PLU of 100, they will lose. Simple as that. That however, does not mean that they are 100 times stronger. Linear does not always mean exactly accurate. Linear means straight.
> 
> ...



Except that is exactly what a linear progression is...your the one using a warped definition.


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## atom (Oct 7, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> But we have no means of gouging what they mean.  A person with a PL of 100 might be 2x as strong as someone with a PL of 50, or 10x or 1.05x.
> 
> They're not linear in effect.


I never said that a person with a PLU of 100 is twice as strong as someone with a PLU of 50. 

Even though this is not stated, its heavily implied. Power level are like this. You have a power level of 1(X), the X is completely dependent on your training, will to fight, and very many other factors. However, this X will never bring your PLU above someone of the next PLU (2 in this case) in other words.

1(X) < 2(X). Obviously this X cannot be negative and it can only be postive. However, this X cannot bring you to the next power level either, meaning it cannot be some things. IE: the X cannot be 2 since 2 times 1 is 2, which would make this person's power level 2, which is obviously impossible. 

But thats where Power Levels get interesting, and this is why it is possible to even get a higher power level to begin with. If your Power Level is 1, it cannot be 2 until X is something that would make it 2, however the X remains static all of the time. So when you train and what not, your power level changes, not the X. So if Goku has a power level of 100(X), then trains to get 1000(X), and X = 1 then his "real" power levels are 100 and 1000. 

To summarize, the power levels are linear in nature, but not in function. Hence why I never said someone who has a power level of 100 is twice as strong as someone with 50


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## Fang (Oct 7, 2007)

Yeah I'm pretty sure Freeza's power level at max in his first form was half a million.


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## atom (Oct 7, 2007)

feitan said:


> Except that is exactly what a linear progression is...your the one using a warped definition.


I'm using the mathematical definition, the actual one; the Latin one. You are using the general term. Granted, both work, the results are just different.


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## Orion (Oct 7, 2007)

God Itachi said:


> I'm using the mathematical definition, the actual one; the Latin one. You are using the general term. Granted, both work, the results are just different.



Regardless nobody with a power level in ten thousands has busted planets.


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## Dragon (banned) (Oct 7, 2007)

feitan said:


> Regardless nobody with a power level in ten thousands has busted planets.



so we know that frieza busted a planet in 5 minutes, frieza is around super saiyan 1 level. Now we know that cell cant destroy a planet, because there is no scans to prove it, cell is around super saiyan 2 level. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## atom (Oct 7, 2007)

feitan said:


> Regardless nobody with a power level in ten thousands has busted planets.


To be fair, Piccolo has destroyed the moon, which is bigger then some distant planets.


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## Orion (Oct 7, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> so we know that frieza busted a planet in 5 minutes, frieza is around super saiyan 1 level. Now we know that cell cant destroy a planet, because there is no scans to prove it, cell is around super saiyan 2 level. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm



Coring a planet is nowhere close to outright busting one.


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## Dragon (banned) (Oct 7, 2007)

feitan said:


> Coring a planet is nowhere close to outright busting one.



well it only took 5 minutes for it to bust. 5 minutes isnt very long. the difference beetween super saiyan 1 and 2>>>>5 minutes


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## Orion (Oct 7, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> well it only took 5 minutes for it to bust. 5 minutes isnt very long. the difference beetween super saiyan 1 and 2>>>>5 minutes



Not really because they arent comparable in the least bit.


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## Al5ez (Oct 7, 2007)

Holy crap....these threads are still goin on? o_0

Well the more curbstomping power to supes the better


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## strongarm85 (Oct 7, 2007)

Sure they're comparable. Cell had as much power as Android 17 and 18 put together, many thousands of other people. Android 17 and 18 where powerful enough own Super Saiyen level Vegeta, one shot Super Saiyen Trunks, break his sword, and beat down several others as well with very little difficulty. 

Android 17 > Android 18 (although I personally think she was very close, 17 always insisted he was stronger) > Super Saiyen > Planets. 

So for that to be true, perfect Cell = Android 17 + Android 18 + Several cities full of people. Your average human being has power level of about 5 also, so if cell only absorbed say 100,000 people X5 is 500,000 power level. Thats a very low number, he probably absorbed several times that. 

Therefore Perfect Cell > 2 Super Saiyens. Of those who bothered doing the math, Frieza at his absolute highest power level was around 12,000,000 which was enough to destroy Namek, a planet three times the size of earth, in 5 minutes. Devide that by 3 and Frieza would destroy an earth sized planet in 1 minute and 40 seconds. 

Super Saiyen > Freeza and Perfect Cell > 2 Super Saiyen > 2 Friezas.  2 Friezas would destroy an earth sized planet in 50 seconds. 

Therefore Perfect Cell > 2 Super Saiyens > 2 Friezas would destroy an earth sized planet in < 50 seconds. And that is how you quantify Cell's power.

The Dragonball Z Databooks put Freeza's at full power as having a power level of 12,000,000. Perfect Cell therefore has a powerlevel of 24,000,000 and probably even more than that. Super Perfect cell would be greater still, which is scary when you consider that Super Saiyen 2 Gohan with an broken arm and other injuries blew Cell apart until there was nothing left of him.

The one who really cannot be be quantified through reason is Buu, and all his incarnations.


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## Dragon (banned) (Oct 7, 2007)

strongarm85 said:


> Sure they're comparable. Cell had as much power as Android 17 and 18 put together, many thousands of other people. Android 17 and 18 where powerful enough own Super Saiyen level Vegeta, one shot Super Saiyen Trunks, break his sword, and beat down several others as well with very little difficulty.
> 
> Android 17 > Android 18 (although I personally think she was very close, 17 always insisted he was stronger) > Super Saiyen > Planets.
> 
> ...



there it is my friend. power scaling at it's finest. feitan has been owned.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 7, 2007)

of course the funny thing is, depending on which version of Superman your talking about he could win or loose. If we where talking animated series Super Man here he would loose. DoS would probably loose too. Pre-Crisis Superman may have come out on top, but he would have had a fight on his hands, but Post Crisis Superman would beat any form of Goku hands down. Gold and Silver Age Superman would be kind of like watching that "World's Most One-Sided Fist Fights" sketch they had on Robot Chicken.


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## Orion (Oct 7, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> there it is my friend. power scaling at it's finest. feitan has been owned.



Not really,because buu is still the only planet vaporizer,I can prove my argument with facts,you cant so in the end you still fail,power levels in dbz are inconsistent and mean nothing,and it says post crisis superman,the most you can say with reasonable certainty is that cell could split a planet in half with a ki blast.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 7, 2007)

Well let me ask you this, how long did it take Kid Buu to destroy a Earth? Well I decided to do some research after my first post. It took 10 seconds of video after Kid Buu's attack hit to destroy the Earth. Under the Assumption that the Camera is moving at a normal elapse of time, no reason not to really, that is the entire time it took to destroy earth. Considering that Cell's time is 100 seconds, than Kid Buu > 10 Freezas, which means Kid Buu > 120,000,000 power level.  And there you have it, a quantified "planet Vaporizer". The reason I say greater is because there was nothing left of earth when Kid Buu destroyed it, I not even debree. When Freeza blew up Namek there where whole bunch of rocks and stuff left over, but when Kid Buu did it, there was nothing left.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 7, 2007)

Even knowing this much, there are some forms of Superman who would outright destroy Kid Buu on his own power, something Goku Super Saiyen 3 Goku would have never accomplished. 

I personally don't count GT as part of Dragonball Cannon, but even if I did, Super Saiyen 4 Goku probably couldn't have destroyed Kid Buu either. 

If you do some simple math, you'll see that 120,000,000 in power level is = to 24 million regular human being's put together. In other words, if you took everyone in the state of Texas every once of their being into one super being that had the strength of all of them  it would be around 120,000,000.


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## Havoc (Oct 7, 2007)

Goku wins, he knows martial arts.


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## Green Lantern (Oct 7, 2007)

Thread is sinking fast.

Point 1- stop debating whether or not certain DBZ characters can or cannot bust planets, as it is not relevant to Supes vs Goku.

Point 2- stop debating whether or not certain DBZ characters can or cannot bust planets, as it is not relevant to Supes vs Goku.

Point 3- No flaming. Strikes being handed out now.

Up this thread's quality or it'll be shut down.

Heck, I may even just shut it down now.


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## Havoc (Oct 7, 2007)

Radish what did you expect?

This happens in every Supes vs. Goku thread, on every forum.


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## Green Lantern (Oct 7, 2007)

I expected a bribe to allow this thread to continue.

Bribe was not delivered. 

So I'm getting ready to shut thread now.


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## Havoc (Oct 7, 2007)

I'll give you Gooba's first born.


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## Morpheus (Oct 7, 2007)

In before the lock.


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## mystictrunks (Oct 7, 2007)

In B4 Lock.

SMH @ This Thread.


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## Dark Evangel (Oct 7, 2007)

Supes will win this with his eyes closed.


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## Ippy (Oct 7, 2007)




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## Gooba (Oct 7, 2007)

In after lock.


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