# Darth Vader vs. Narutoverse



## Zoidberg (Nov 5, 2008)

How does this go? You may use any medium that Vader has appeared in.


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## Sasuke_fanboy (Nov 5, 2008)

Amaretsu is all thats needed


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## Narcissus (Nov 5, 2008)

^Everytime I see this type of drivel posted, I feel a strong urge to reach for the neg button.

Darth Vader stomps via mind raping and force choking.  Lets not even get into how Light Sabers > every weapon in Naruto.


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## Fang (Nov 5, 2008)

Vader can telekentically destroy 200+ meter buildings designed to be durable enough to test heavy weapons in them.

And that was indirectly.


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## Zoidberg (Nov 5, 2008)

How strong do you think Soul Calibur Darth Vader was? If I remember correctly, at the end of his storyline he acquired both Soul Edge and Soul Calibur. With those weapons, how fast do you think Vader can smash Narutoverse?


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## Darth Nihilus (Nov 5, 2008)

TWF said:


> Vader can telekentically destroy 200+ meter buildings designed to be durable enough to test heavy weapons in them.
> 
> And that was indirectly.



Seriously?


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## DaRkMaStEr (Nov 5, 2008)

Kyuubi could stand a chance.


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## Fang (Nov 5, 2008)

That was during Laybrinth of Evil. And yes, he has also tagged a dozen droid tri-fighters in the time it took a heart to beat once, despite the fact they all have faster then light electronic reflexes.

And Anakin at that point isn't even top tier.


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## Ork (Nov 5, 2008)

Vader gets stomped.
Vader vs most ninja 1v1, I'd give it to vader.
Vader vs the Narutoverse? Lol.
Overkill.
Too much Darth Vader Fanboyism.


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## Onomatopoeia (Nov 5, 2008)

Welcome to Vader's ninja massacre. Would you like your ninjas crushed into a little ball or chopped into little pieces?


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## Fang (Nov 5, 2008)

Try again, low level Force Users Pre-Cog allows them to react to lightspeed attacks. And even without it they have showcased supersonic to hypersonic reflexes. I don't think so, especially since Vader can also absorb and deflect energy based attacks from a certain level.

Which is above Naruto.


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## Aokiji (Nov 5, 2008)

TWF said:


> That was during Laybrinth of Evil. And yes, he has also tagged a dozen droid tri-fighters in the time it took a *heart to beat* once, despite the fact they all have faster then light electronic reflexes.
> 
> And Anakin at that point isn't even top tier.



Depending on whose heart that was, this could be subsonic to lightspeed.


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## Fang (Nov 5, 2008)

In the time frame of a heart beating, he took down a dozen tri-fighters with lightspeed electronic references.


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## Aokiji (Nov 5, 2008)

If I take down people who have reflexes at c, wouldn't that basically mean I'm FTL?


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## Michael Myers (Nov 5, 2008)

DemonDragonJ said:


> as he is one of the most powerful and skilled force users in the entire _Star Wars_ universe.


 
I wouldn't go that far, there are plenty more that pass vader in terms of force. Although he is badass as hell.

Pretty sure that Narutoverse could possibly take this with a lot of difficulty.


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## Narcissus (Nov 5, 2008)

Simply amazing how everyone here who says "Narutoverse wins" never bothers to explain how.

Seems odd to me...


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## Fang (Nov 5, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> If I take down people who have reflexes at c, wouldn't that basically mean I'm FTL?



No. 



Michael Myers said:


> I wouldn't go that far, there are plenty more that pass vader in terms of force. Although he is badass as hell.
> 
> Pretty sure that Narutoverse could possibly take this with a lot of difficulty.



Not really, when your a casual building buster indirectly with lightspeed pre-cog, blitzing multiple pre-cognitive bullet-timing Jedi Knights like its nothing a few weeks after having your limbs and body badly burned from lava, I doubt it.

He also is showcasing high degrees of telepathy now.


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## Aokiji (Nov 5, 2008)

TWF said:


> No.



How does he get hit by someone who's much slower than what he can react to then?


hmm?


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## Fang (Nov 5, 2008)

What the hell are you talking about? He doesn't have FTL reflexes, his Precognition lets him know before the attack occurs.


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## KazeYama (Nov 5, 2008)

Force unleashed vader was pretty strong. He could tk apart buildings with ease and survive multiple direct hits from lightsabers and similar tk blasts. He also lived through a massive explosion on the death star that was visible from space and given that the death star is the size of a small moon he could probably tank anything the narutoverse throws at him. Not to mention surviving direct exposure to lava and several thousand degree temperatures. 

Nothing would threaten him since he has precog, force protection and to top it off saber resistant armor. Vader just snaps everyone's neck that he comes across.


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## Ork (Nov 5, 2008)

What TWF said. Jedi are normal sentients who enhance themselves with the force.
They've demonstrated some pretty awesome abilities true, but so has the Narutoverse, if you ask me, placing one man, regardless of how powerful (up to a point) against an entire universe of beings who have demonstrated abilities such as: Complete and utter immortality, the ability to have a mind in seven or more bodies, and control them all simultaneously, instant regeneration after having an entire ARM shoved through their torso, Real teleportation, Physical strength enough to shatter walls with a single finger...

Darth Vader is powerful, he's a badass... placing a badass against a universe of Ability users each equal to most force users in their own way? What the hell? He's going to lose.

Lets not even get into the whole mystical aspect, The kyuubi can cause earthquakes and tidal waves by waving his freaking TAILS. And there are Nine other creatures like him, admittedly weaker... but still.


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## Aokiji (Nov 5, 2008)

I mean the droids. You said they have FTL reflexes. Someone who can hit em would, well, have be in that range as well I s'pose.


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## Ork (Nov 5, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> I mean the droids. You said they have FTL reflexes. Someone who can hit em would, well, have be in that range as well I s'pose.



FTL reflexes, doesnt mean FTL speed at all times. If droids could all move FTL on their own, you'd be in trouble.
I don't know what the exact speed of a tie fighter, but I doubt they move faster than light while manouvering. Its possible I suppose, but even then, you don't need ftl reflexes to hit something if you know exactly when its going to be at a certain point. (precog ftw?)


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## Aokiji (Nov 5, 2008)

I know that FTL reflexes=/=FTL movement. But if you have reflexes of a certain speed, you should be able to dodge anything that is significantly slower than this.


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## CrazyMoronX (Nov 5, 2008)

I choose to use the movie only then. 

He gets rape-fucked up the ass using only that.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 5, 2008)

Well, I didn't know that Darth was Light speed. So he takes it. Unless twf is ignorant. Do you have scans of him actually blitzing the jedi's? Or them dodging bullets by any means?


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## Aokiji (Nov 5, 2008)

Whoa whoa, don't take my word on this. I know next to nothing about EU characters.


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## Fang (Nov 5, 2008)

Blaster bolts move from supersonic to hypersonic speeds, there are freeze frames of the films from AoTC and RoTS of those blaster bolts covering kilometers in a single second divided by two frames.

Secondly, Force Unleashed Vader was tanking telekentic blasts from the Apprentice who can TK apart buildings like its nothing.

Narutoverse gets sodomized and no  your average ninja isn't close to your average Force User, not by a fucking mile.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 5, 2008)

Thats why I said twf not Aokiji.  lol


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## Fang (Nov 5, 2008)

Where is this wank coming from that the Kyuubi causes earthquakes and tsunamis? Vader takes building busting attacks routinely from the Apprentice and was slammed through multiple levels of the Death Star when having a shield generator tossed on him by the Apprentice at the end.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 5, 2008)

Since when is he light speed though?


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## Ork (Nov 5, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> I know that FTL reflexes=/=FTL movement. But if you have reflexes of a certain speed, you should be able to dodge anything that is significantly slower than this.



Thats true, I admit, but I suspect its more the precognition than reflexes.

Jedi have never demonstrated lightspeed anything.
They're very, very fast, but people seem to attribute lightspeed to most things in the OBD without realising quite how fast that is.

299,792,458 Metres per second. 
To put it bluntly, if you were to walk the length of a football pitch, it would take you  a minute or two right? 

Thats about 100 metres. Now, Multiply that by Three Hundred THOUSAND.
Now, If you Anyone, could cross that distance in a single second, and survive the travelling... well... what use is a death star? 

The entire verse would be pointless, there would be no need for a clone army, Darth Vader could literally hit every single person in the enemy army twenty times before their brains could comprehend that he was there. He could escape gravity on his own...

Faster than Light is ridiculous in most fights its applied to in the OBD.

Now, Darth vader can destroy buildings with his tk, accidentally. Thats pretty awesome. Kyuubi can cause earthquakes by waving his tail.
Thats on a different level.


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## Ork (Nov 5, 2008)

TWF said:


> Where is this wank coming from that the Kyuubi causes earthquakes and tsunamis? Vader takes building busting attacks routinely from the Apprentice and was slammed through multiple levels of the Death Star when having a shield generator tossed on him by the Apprentice at the end.





There's your wank.


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## MysticMetaKurra (Nov 5, 2008)

Absence said:


> There's your wank.


Naruto wikipdia? You mean something that can be edited by anyone? Kyuubi's legend things are purely hyperbole at the moment.


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## Ork (Nov 5, 2008)

MysticMetaKurra said:


> Naruto wikipdia? You mean something that can be edited by anyone? Kyuubi's legend things are purely hyperbole at the moment.



tanto

How's that then?
lol.

Also, it was mentioned by TWK that the average force user would stomp the average Narutoverse Ninja, alright, lets put this in perspective.

Link removed 

This is Obi wan Kenobi and His master, who later in life defeated Darth vader at his strongest.

How does that, compare to 
this: 

Link removed

Which is the Kyuubi at less than half power.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 5, 2008)

Well you saw what four tails did. Imagine that with five more tails. Sheesh..


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## C. Hook (Nov 5, 2008)

Absence said:


> RLY?
> 
> How's that then?
> lol.



That's the hyperbole he was talking about... 



Absence said:


> Also, it was mentioned by TWK that the average force user would stomp the average Narutoverse Ninja, alright, lets put this in perspective.
> 
> Ralph Nader commits Sepukku
> 
> ...



The thread maker said any Star Wars fiction, not just the damn movies. You know how powerful Vader in the EU is? 

And any significant force user in the EU can fuck over Naruto's Kn4. Also, we don't know if Kyuubi's power increases linearly with the tails. Just look at Hachibi.


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## Ork (Nov 5, 2008)

I think its safe to say that it does increase linearly, If not exponentially.
At one tail he's strong, at two he's tough, at 4 he causes forest devastating explosions... I'm seeing a pattern here.

And read his post by the way, He was dissing the source because it was a wiki, so I provided a non wiki source.

So, what you're saying, is that because its EU, DV wins, the feats that have been mentioned so far are: Tk destroying buildings casually, surviving large explosions, killing droid ships... right? 

Im not seeing anything particularly godlike there... and be sure, you'd need to be godlike to take the entire Narutoverse.
4 Tails Kyuubi makes fucking enormous explosions, can't be cut by a Sword thats as famous to the Japanese as Excalibur is to the English, Can stretch and Lengthen Bodyparts.

At 4 tails.
And thats ONE character in the Narutoverse, and there are Thousands, of Ninja, then the Bijuu. 

Saying that Darth Vader stomps is Fanboyism at its worst.


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## C-Moon (Nov 5, 2008)

Lol. Narutowank. OP never stated Vader couldn't drop a Star Destroyer on the fucker.


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## C. Hook (Nov 5, 2008)

Absence said:


> I think its safe to say that it does increase linearly, If not exponentially.
> At one tail he's strong, at two he's tough, *at 4 he causes forest devastating explosions...* I'm seeing a pattern here.



Devastating an entire forest? Are you serious? 

Besides, how the heck is that evidence for his strength increasing linearly? Strong and tough are vague words.



Absence said:


> And read his post by the way, He was dissing the source because it was a wiki, so I provided a non wiki source.



It's still hyperbole.

So, what you're saying, is that because its EU, DV wins, the feats that have been mentioned so far are: Tk destroying buildings casually, surviving large explosions, killing droid ships... right?



Absence said:


> *Im not seeing anything particularly godlike there... and be sure, you'd need to be godlike to take the entire Narutoverse.*



You don't seem to get the point. Vader from the EU can TANK attacks that destroy buildings easily, as well as destroy buildings easily. He is also near invincible to attacks, since force-precog allows him to block or dodge any that come his way.

*Sure, we all know that Byakuya or Lucci (Without equal speed) are GODLIKE. Heck, a Dalek can solo much of the Narutoverse. It's one of the weaker verses in the OBD.*



Absence said:


> 4 Tails Kyuubi makes fucking enormous explosions,



And? The damage output is still not enough.



Absence said:


> can't be cut by a Sword thats as famous to the Japanese as Excalibur is to the English,



You have got to be shitting me if you actually believe that it holds a candle to Excalibur. 

Also, how the hell is a fictional sword the same as one from a completely different fiction?



Absence said:


> Can stretch and Lengthen Bodyparts.



As can Luffy. By the way, Luffy rapestomps Kn4, yet can't even think of destroying Vader.



Absence said:


> At 4 tails.
> And thats ONE character in the Narutoverse, and there are Thousands, of Ninja,



Incompetent fodder, anyone?



Absence said:


> then the Bijuu.



The only Bijuu left are Nine Tails and Eight Tails, who are both dispatched fairly easily.



Absence said:


> Saying that Darth Vader stomps is Fanboyism at its worst.



Saying that Kn4 stands a chance against Vader is Fanboyism at its worst.


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## Ork (Nov 5, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Devastating an entire forest? Are you serious?
> 
> Besides, how the heck is that evidence for his strength increasing linearly? Strong and tough are vague words.
> 
> ...



I wont even bother responding to most of your post in response to your last statement, I despise the series. Its in my profile. 
I just despise fanboys more.

At no point has Vader EVER demonstrated the capability to defeat an entire planet of powerful people, on his own. Ever. Its just that simple.


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## MysticMetaKurra (Nov 5, 2008)

Absence said:


> I wont even bother responding to most of your post in response to your last statement, I despise the series. Its in my profile.
> I just despise fanboys more.
> 
> At no point has Vader EVER demonstrated the capability to defeat an entire planet of powerful people, on his own. Ever. Its just that simple.



You act like he couldn't because he has never done it in his verse. hat hardly means anything considering how powerful the Star Wars races are, at least some of them. Anyway, saying he can't beat Naruto verse solely on the grounds of "He has never beat a planet of powerful beings by himself" is just kindive ignorant in my opinion. I don't mean that as an insult to you, just how I see things.


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## Fang (Nov 5, 2008)

Vader was tanking repeated Telekentic assaults from a guy who brought down half a dozen building size moorings with the Force which were equivalent to "explosions of pure kinetic force" and survived being dropped on by a massive shield generator through multiple levels of durasteel.

He also tags and reacts to lightspeed reacting droids and soloed battalions of Super Battle Droids.

Also I would love to see on panel feats of Mini-Kyuubi Naruto destroying an entire forest or the Kyuubi creating actual tsunamis or earthquakes from the manga.

Much less anyone resisting telepathic assaults or getting over his FTL Pre-Cognition.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 5, 2008)

So is he lightspeed?


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## Endless Mike (Nov 5, 2008)

Unless he gets a starship (or even his TIE Fighter) as standard equipment, I don't see him winning.


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## KazeYama (Nov 5, 2008)

He blocks blaster bolts with his hands what is he gonna get killed by a kunai or something.


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## Marth6789 (Nov 5, 2008)

KazeYama said:


> He blocks blaster bolts with his hands what is he gonna get killed by a kunai or something.



No, by Chidori lance, C4, C2, Amaterasu, etc.


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## Hapayahapaya (Nov 5, 2008)

TWF said:


> Vader was tanking repeated Telekentic assaults from a guy who brought down half a dozen building size moorings with the Force which were equivalent to "explosions of pure kinetic force" and survived being dropped on by a massive shield generator through multiple levels of durasteel.
> 
> He also tags and reacts to lightspeed reacting droids and soloed battalions of Super Battle Droids.
> 
> ...



Light-speed reacting droids? If they're that fast, who needs Jedi?

And I assume his durability is due to his armor, right?


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## KazeYama (Nov 5, 2008)

Marth6789 said:


> No, by Chidori lance, C4, C2, Amaterasu, etc.



Chidori lance is nothing compared to a lightsaber. He could probably tank C2 as well given the destructive power of some of the tk blasts he has taken. C4 he would just throw deidara into the air or simply use precog to kill him before he can use it. Amaterasu is a joke. Karin didn't even get her clothes burnt and you expect a guy who lives through direct exposure to lava with 3 of his limbs missing to bat an eye at amaterasu. 

His durability is partially his armor but it is also due to the force. He survived falling into lava on pure hatred and darkside energy alone and he can absorb energy using the force to decrease or eliminate damage. He could also make a shield with tk to protect himself if he really had to.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 5, 2008)

So he isn't light speed? Anywho after giving it some thought Diedra might do it.


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## C-Moon (Nov 5, 2008)

Marth6789 said:


> No, by Chidori lance, C4, C2, Amaterasu, etc.



I find your lack of faith disturbing.


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## Onomatopoeia (Nov 5, 2008)

> a Sword thats as famous to the Japanese as Excalibur is to the English,



How is that even remotely relevant?


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## Steven Pinhead (Nov 5, 2008)

Darth Vader will slowly walk all over them in his menacing manner.


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## Narcissus (Nov 6, 2008)

> you'd need to be godlike to take the entire Narutoverse.



Since when? 
Please, enlighten me.



> 4 Tails Kyuubi makes fucking enormous explosions, can't be cut by a Sword thats as famous to the Japanese as Excalibur is to the English



4 Tails explosions pale in comparison to the power of many other fictional characters.  Nothing impressive here.  And LOL at thinking Oro's sword is anywhere near as destructive as a Light Saber.




> And thats ONE character in the Narutoverse, and there are Thousands, of Ninja, then the Bijuu.



Only 3 bijuu have show feats, so all others can not be used.  And fodder is taken out instantly.  Try again.




> Saying that Darth Vader stomps is Fanboyism at its worst.



While I don't actually think it would be a complete stomp, I do think Vader will win.  And no, this is not fanboyism at its worst.  Read some of Sasuke and Itachi's fanboys/girls post for that.




Marth6789 said:


> No, by Chidori lance, C4, C2, Amaterasu, etc.


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Nov 6, 2008)

Disorderly Conduct said:


> And LOL at thinking Oro's sword is anywhere near as destructive as a Light Saber.


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## Hapayahapaya (Nov 6, 2008)

Well, lava>Vader, lava>fire, and as we all know ninjas>fire. So I say it's a draw.


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## Estrecca (Nov 6, 2008)

Deidara goes C0. Vader dies. The End.

This applies doubly to the incarnation seen in the G-T continuity 

And before someone jumps in, to tell me that I have no idea of WTF I'm talking about, I'd suggest checking my signature. I know my Star Wars and do not believe for a second that even EU Vader stands a decent chance against a large number of top tiers in Naruto.


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## Aokiji (Nov 6, 2008)

then you don't know Naruto.


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## CrimsonRex (Nov 6, 2008)

*Vader wins all.*


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## Di@BoLik (Nov 6, 2008)

Do the light-speed reacting droids move at light speed? What were the circumstances under which they got tagged by Vader?


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## iander (Nov 6, 2008)

Vader losses badly.  Too many powers and people coming at him at once.


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## Ork (Nov 6, 2008)

What Iander said, And yes, Kusanagi is as famous to the Japanese as Excalibur is to the English.




And to quote from Wikipedia in "Kusanagi in Popular Media"




In the popular Japanese manga , a villain named  is able to procure the Kusanagi sword from a snake that comes out of his mouth. This is befitting of him both because it references the Yamata-no-Orochi and because an alternate translation of "Kusanagi-no-Tsurugi" is "Sword of the Snake". Orochimaru himself uses many ninjutsu revolving around snakes.
So Yes, is a fucking famous powerful Japanese sword.

I never said it was equal to a lightsaber, Its supposed to be able to cut powerfully though.
It can't scratch Naruto at 4 Tails.
DV Fails this.

1: Vader isnt Lightspeed. If he was, He would solo the entire JediVerse.
2: If Vader isnt lightspeed, that means his ability to stop and block must be based on his predictons.
3: How do you predict and stop attacks from Hundreds of thousands of Ninja all at once? TK? How long can he keep that up?
4: DV has never demonstrated the ability to regenerate, so any wounds taken are there for the duration of the fight.
5: There are people with INSANE abilities in Naruto, Abilities that are completely explicable. Such as Complete and utter immortality even after dismemberment, The ability to create fire that burns for 7 days and nights. The Kyuubi Naruto's YAMATO CANNON! =D

DV is tough, DV Is strong, DV is gonna die.


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## Rashou (Nov 6, 2008)

C4 ends it for everyone. Does that make it a draw? I seriously only know movie Vader, so I can't call it.


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## Estrecca (Nov 6, 2008)

Rashou said:


> C4 ends it for everyone. Does that make it a draw? I seriously only know movie Vader, so I can't call it.



Actually, I'd say that the C4 is the worst possible attack that Deidara could pick, because Vader's mask might well include some kind of air filter that would negate the internal detonation that is the main point of the technique.


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## Federer (Nov 6, 2008)

*No Naruto-character has shown to take down Vader by his own, not even in a group or whatever.* I believe we haven't seen the true power behind Pain, nor do we have feats of Madara, except he being "untouchable".

And even the mighty Kyuubi, a Bijuu with "infinite chakra" and can't be killed doesn't have actual feats.


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## Ork (Nov 6, 2008)

It HAS to include air filtration Methinks, isnt that the whole purpose in the first place? To filter air for his damaged lungs and to help him breathe?


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## Fang (Nov 6, 2008)

Precognitive powers that allow Force Users to react to lightspeed attacks and reflexes doesn't make them lightspeed.

Jesus christ on a stick. He can literally rip apart Konoha with TK at his leisure.


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## Fang (Nov 6, 2008)

Also none of the top tiers have showcased any mental defenses or powers to take on Vader's telepathic powers, much less low level supersonic speeds.

Deidara in-character, starts by getting close to his enemy then dropping C1 mines. As soon as he gets close, he gets Telekentically crushed like a twig.

Also electronic signals in droids move at ligthspeed, nothing about them "moving" at lightspeed.

Naruto is a weak universe.


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## Aokiji (Nov 6, 2008)

TWF said:


> Also none of the top tiers have showcased any mental defenses or powers to take on Vader's telepathic powers, much less low level supersonic speeds.
> 
> *Deidara in-character, starts by getting close to his enemy then dropping C1 mines.* As soon as he gets close, he gets Telekentically crushed like a twig.
> 
> ...



So you kinda admit that if he did what Estrecca and the rest said, Vader would die?

Besides, does in character Vader go for mass mindrape?


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## Fang (Nov 6, 2008)

He might die but a badly wounded Vader shrugged off Galen Marek's sacrificing blast that destroyed the tower of the first Death Star and it did nothing to him.

So I doubt it.

And considering how Galen Marek can kill AT-AT's with simple bursts of Force Lightning or rip them apart with Telekensis and shred off whole sections of the Death Star's frame and Vader was tanking repeated building busting attacks from him, I severely doubt it.


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## Aokiji (Nov 6, 2008)

He might really survive C0.


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## Heartgobbler (Nov 6, 2008)

I call win for Narutoverse by the weight of numbers. 

Actually, I think team Hebi could overwhelm him; Sasuke is about top tier in speed for his universe so he can conceivably close into malee before getting force strangled. Once in close combat, he is a serious opponent, with an energy blade of his own, high speed and movement-prediction abilities of his sharingan.Then we have Suigetsu who can survive being cut and cannot be strangled. The other two are not well suited for this fight (as lightsaber wounds cannot be healed like Karin does and Yugo fights with 'bare' hands) so they would probably be left cheering.

Vader can take a lot of blows and keep getting up by sheer force of will, but it would only take one chidori nagashi past his defences to bust his breathing support system


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## Fang (Nov 6, 2008)

Vader could TK BFR the entirety of Akatsuki and Team Hebi. Also, he can absorb energry from Sasuke's Raitons, or Kakashi's for that matters.

Also, no, there's still the problem that no one can overcome his telepathy or Precognition and Force enhanced reflexes.

Hell in Lucas's own wordings he threw people like missiles and has busted durasteel with his strength.

Narutoverse loses.


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## Rice Ball (Nov 6, 2008)

Narutoverse wins this.
To meny for Vader to handle and too meny good unique abilities.


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## Fang (Nov 6, 2008)

Not really at all.

Considering how Galen Marek could easily solo Naruto, so could his near equal Vader.


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## Kameil (Nov 6, 2008)

Much Narutoverse hopefuls dickriding the thread when Vader TK's it's over.


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## Rice Ball (Nov 6, 2008)

And the whole of the Naruto isn't near equal to the whole of the narutoverse.

I'll dumb it down to your level, Blub blub blub!


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## Fang (Nov 6, 2008)

You realize that Naruto was meant as the entirety of the series right? Let's see, genjutsu is totally useless, considering how nothing they have can overcome Vader's reflexes of his Precognition or match his Telekentic powers or Telepathy, yeah, I'm sure he's worried about Kirin or C18 or Amaterasu which all take massive amount of time to prepare and power.

So snorlax to your entire post.


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## Rashou (Nov 6, 2008)

Estrecca said:


> Actually, I'd say that the C4 is the worst possible attack that Deidara could pick, because Vader's mask might well include some kind of air filter that would negate the internal detonation that is the main point of the technique.


It seems like his mask only helps get air to his damaged lungs, like Absence said. Meaning the bombs would be given a free ride to the most crucial organs of his body. A specialized filtration mechanism to prevent harmful particles wasn't hinted at in the movies, but I don't know about anything else, so I could be wrong.


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## Fang (Nov 6, 2008)

Vader can protect his body with the Force, just  like how weaker Force Users have done so against the lack of oxygen in vacuum of space, poison gases, including acids and fluids as well.

And it filters any harmful product anyway, so C4 would pointless in two ways. Anyway, what's stopping Vader from snapping Deidara like a twig as soon as he sees him?


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## KazeYama (Nov 6, 2008)

The entire point of the mask it to filter the air into a purified form so it doesn't damage his lungs. Why do you think he needs a special pressured meditation chamber and can't survive for long without his mask on. 

Not that C4 matters as he would sense it through the force anyway.


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## Tendou Souji (Nov 6, 2008)

The Apprentice could solo the Narutoverse, and Vader is better. What makes you think someone superior to someone who could solo the verse would not be able to solo the verse himself?

Vader will stomp the Narutoverse.


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## Rice Ball (Nov 6, 2008)

I'll put your previous statement down to an appeal to popularity then?
Vaders precog = Oh fuck, theres a few billion people all running towards me, i'm fucked.

Even if you include just the Ninja's, sure he could wipe out meny of them, but hes not going to kill all of them, your so wrapped up in your wanking, your ignoring common issues with the whole "1 man v a verse" of fatigue and attrition.

Which by those alone, he loses.


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## Estrecca (Nov 6, 2008)

Irvine Kinneas said:


> The Apprentice could solo the Narutoverse, and *Vader is better*. What makes you think someone superior to someone who could solo the verse would not be able to solo the verse himself?



Emphasis mine, because even ignoring the rest of the comments, largely baseless claims and other things I disagree with in this thread, this one is simply too egregious to let slide. 

Galen Marek proved beyond a doubt that he was more powerful than Vader by a fair margin by beating the crap out of his former master when they dueled in the Death Star. In fact, Starkiller did a more than decent job of battling Palpatine to a standstill, which is *definitely* beyond Vader and puts his power level over nine thou... Err... He is somewhere between Palpatine and Suited Vader in power and he is closer to the former.


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## Fang (Nov 6, 2008)

Rice Ball said:


> I'll put your previous statement down to an appeal to popularity then?
> Vaders precog = Oh fuck, theres a few billion people all running towards me, i'm fucked.




Because the smartest thing for them to do is Zerg Rush Vader while Deidara unleashes C4 and kills off the majority of his own team mates with a double edged attack?

And since when would all of them know to attack him anyway? 90% of them go for close combat and Vader has already proven to be above a Jedi Master like Arca Jeth who can solo droid armies on his own.



> Even if you include just the Ninja's, sure he could wipe out meny of them, but hes not going to kill all of them, your so wrapped up in your wanking, your ignoring common issues with the whole "1 man v a verse" of fatigue and attrition.
> 
> Which by those alone, he loses.



How is he going to get fatigued against when 60% of his body is cybernetic again? Much less I would love to see how their going to defend themselves against a omni-directional Force Wave which can destroy durasteel buildings.



Estrecca said:


> Emphasis mine, because even ignoring the rest of the comments, largely baseless claims and other things I disagree with in this thread, this one is simply too egregious to let slide.



Largely low level street class opponents are not going to bother Vader much at all.



> Galen Marek proved beyond a doubt that he was more powerful than Vader by a fair margin by beating the crap out of his former master when they dueled in the Death Star. In fact, Starkiller did a more than decent job of battling Palpatine to a standstill, which is *definitely* beyond Vader and puts his power level over nine thou... Err... He is somewhere between Palpatine and Suited Vader in power and he is closer to the former.



Which is fine and dandy until the point was that both a badily injured Vader and Palaptine survived Galen Marek's self-destructive blast of Force Energy with absolutely no damage to themselves thereafter.


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## Shock Therapy (Nov 6, 2008)

After all this debating, Darth Vader still stomps the narutoverse.


----------



## Rashou (Nov 6, 2008)

KazeYama said:
			
		

> The entire point of the mask it to filter the air into a purified form so it doesn't damage his lungs. Why do you think he needs a special pressured meditation chamber and can't survive for long without his mask on.
> 
> Not that C4 matters as he would sense it through the force anyway.


Actually a pressure chamber makes it seem more like he's using an oxygen mask than a filter. Which would still leave C4 useless as his oxygen wouldn't even come from the same environment, but meh.


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## Fang (Nov 6, 2008)

Foreign elements from his oxidezer and filtration systems purifies the oxygen Vader breaths. So C4 wouldn't do any good, and again if Deidara resorts to that, he's going to be wiping out the majority of his own team mates near and around where Vader is fighting.


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## Estrecca (Nov 6, 2008)

TWF said:


> Largely low level street class opponents are not going to bother Vader much at all.



...

Boba Fett could have killed Vader in Maryx Minor. And Vader acknowledged that Fett's intervention was helpful when he had to fight against a number of bounty hunters in Dargulli. 

I am dead certain that finding several additional examples of low showings would take comparatively small effort. Keep the fanboyism at reasonable levels, please.



> Which is fine and dandy until the point was that both a badily injured Vader and Palaptine survived Galen Marek's self-destructive blast of Force Energy with absolutely no damage to themselves thereafter.



Fact: Vader got severely curbstomped when he went against Marek on his own.

Fact: Palpatine could not easily overpower Marek. 

Fact: Both Sith survived Marek's kamikaze without too much damage.

Speculation: Marek could have been focusing his attack against Palpatine and/or Palpatine might have shielded his apprentice from the attack. That Starkiller is above Vader, however, is something that is shown rather clearly in the Force Unleashed.


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## Fang (Nov 6, 2008)

I never claimed or stated that Vader was above Marek, not once. You might want to re-read my posts on that, I never said that claim however. Secondly, Vader during that incident was not the same Vader who tanks repeated Force attacks from Marek that have destroyed moorings that are structured, founded and designed to hold down the collososal weight of skyhooks or shatter AT-AT's from Force Unleashed.

And in all perspectives, that was more PIS then anything else with Boba Fett. And I hope you have evidence from the novel to prove that speculation that Palpatine, out of character, would expand his defense in the Force to protect his weakened apprentice from the novel.


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## Rice Ball (Nov 6, 2008)

Reminds me of Phemon.

Because they are working together right, so friendly fire would only happen if it was a means to a end, like supressing Vadar while a big attack hits him.

I wouldn't wank durasteel too much, its barely stronger than normal steel, if not weaker.


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## KazeYama (Nov 6, 2008)

I view Vader as a bit stronger than Starkiller and support the speculation that he was holding back the whole time. Although none of this actually matters as any Jedi or Sith even close to Starkiller's level would take the narutoverse.


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## Fang (Nov 6, 2008)

Rice Ball said:


> Reminds me of Phemon.
> 
> Because they are working together right, so friendly fire would only happen if it was a means to a end, like supressing Vadar while a big attack hits him.
> 
> I wouldn't wank durasteel too much, its barely stronger than normal steel, if not weaker.



You do indeed remind me of Phemononal. Durasteel is barely stronger then steel, if not weaker? From a civilization thats millions of times more advanced then us in every conceivable manner?

Try again. And have fun getting over his pre-cog when Vader can just disable several opponents with Telepathy while dealing with the rest, not too mention trying to ambush him from anyone in Naruto's level would fail.


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## Rice Ball (Nov 6, 2008)

If rocks and wood can crush it, i'm not sure it lives up to your durability requests.
Sure, disabling several will give him time to deal with the other billion :rolleyes

Vadar isn't exactly fast, the best G-canon feats put him pretty slow, alot slower than the average fodder nin.


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## Estrecca (Nov 6, 2008)

TWF said:


> I never claimed or stated that Vader was above Marek, not once. You might want to re-read my posts on that, I never said that claim however.



_Which is fine and dandy until the point was that both a badily injured Vader and Palaptine survived Galen Marek's self-destructive blast of Force Energy with absolutely no damage to themselves thereafter._

It might be that I failed to understand your position in this matter, but when I read this I see that you are implying that Vader > Marek. So, in order to clear my misconception, please state as plainly as possible your position regarding the comparative power levels of Starkiller and Vader.



> Secondly, Vader during that incident was not the same Vader who tanks repeated Force attacks from Marek that have destroyed moorings that are structured, founded and designed to hold down the collososal weight of skyhooks or shatter AT-AT's from Force Unleashed.



WTF? I request clarification of what you are saying here. Are you implying that Marek's defeating Vader was PIS or that the Vader that Marek defeated was some kind of weaker clone?



> And in all perspectives, that was more PIS then anything else with Boba Fett. And I hope you have evidence from the novel to prove that speculation that Palpatine, out of character, would expand his defense in the Force to protect his weakened apprentice from the *novel*.



Now I have this mental image of Galen attacking Vader with books... 

At any rate, Palpatine saving Vader's ass is not exactly news. He crossed the entire galaxy to save him from the lava in ROTS. He sent clones to save him in Kessel, when Master Tsui Choi and friends were about to kill him. I am sure that there are other examples.

Alternatively, Vader, being some distance away from ground zero of the blast, only had to deal with a proportionaly small part of the lightside energy.


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## Fang (Nov 6, 2008)

Rice Ball said:


> If rocks and wood can crush it, i'm not sure it lives up to your durability requests.
> Sure, disabling several will give him time to deal with the other billion :rolleyes
> 
> Vadar isn't exactly fast, the best G-canon feats put him pretty slow, alot slower than the average fodder nin.



The same Vader who reacted to Han Solo a few meters away firing three blaster bolts at Vader, and absorbed the first blaster bolt and redirected the other two in the wall...after Han fired?

And the film isn't the only canon thats available here much less if your talking about Scout-Walkers getting taken out by wooden logs, those trees are heavier then the light armored, hollow canopy of a AT-ST.

So your point is still groundless.



Estrecca said:


> It might be that I failed to understand your position in this matter, but when I read this I see that you are implying that Vader > Marek. So, in order to clear my misconception, please state as plainly as possible your position regarding the comparative power levels of Starkiller and Vader.



Again. I will say it as clearly as possible, Sith Apprentice Starkiller, Jedi Knight Galen Marek is more powerful then Vader at his strongest after Mustafar. But even a badily injured Vader and relatively healthy Palpatine suffered no damage from the blast itself or the rubble and debris that landed on them.




> WTF? I request clarification of what you are saying here. Are you implying that Marek's defeating Vader was PIS or that the Vader that Marek defeated was some kind of weaker clone?



Nothing of the sort. All I am saying was that early in the fight Galen's concentrated Force attacks were being taken by Vader fine. He can take what Marek dishes out, which above 90% of the attacks in Narutoverse. Not suggesting Vader was clone at all.



> At any rate, Palpatine saving Vader's ass is not exactly news. He crossed the entire galaxy to save him from the lava in ROTS. He sent clones to save him in Kessel, when Master Tsui Choi and friends were about to kill him. I am sure that there are other examples.



This has no revelance in the incident of TFU. Please post an excerpt stating that Palpatine shielded or protected Vader from Marek's blast.



> Alternatively, Vader, being some distance away from ground zero of the blast, only had to deal with a proportionaly small part of the lightside energy.



The blast destroyed the entire tower. Vader was still close enough by to get hit by a large amount of energy from the blast.

Feasibly, he could've diverted what hit him with the Force since he has showcased this talent to absorb and redirect energy with the Force.


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## Rice Ball (Nov 6, 2008)

Vadar had his hand up and Solo shot it, hardly a feat of reaction if solo was a slow shooter/had poor aim.

I'm sure i don't have to explain how the Holocron system works, so you can preach all you like, but as long as the Film contradicts a EU feat, its canon and what we should be using.

The same armour was smashed/dented by rocks, if it can be destroyed so easy by kenetic force, i don't see how its going to defend against any of the heavy hitters of the Narutoverse.


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## mailer-daemon (Nov 6, 2008)

Film darth vader gets stomped to the ground.

2x Shadow bind + 2x Amaterasu + Kamui in the brain while the fodder distracts him.


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## C. Hook (Nov 6, 2008)

mailer-daemon said:


> Film darth vader gets stomped to the ground.
> 
> 2x Shadow bind + 2x Amaterasu + Kamui in the brain while the fodder distracts him.



This isn't film Darth Vader.


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## Rice Ball (Nov 6, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> This isn't film Darth Vader.



Film Vader is the G-Canon Vadar, if a feat in the film contradicts a EU feat, the film feat is taken as canon above any EU feat, so movement, melee combat speed, durability etc can all be taken from the film.


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## God Emperor of Mankind (Nov 6, 2008)

is this thread serious


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## mailer-daemon (Nov 6, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> This isn't film Darth Vader.



well, didn't the TC say to use any version?


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## C. Hook (Nov 6, 2008)

Rice Ball said:


> Film Vader is the G-Canon Vadar, if a feat in the film contradicts a EU feat, the film feat is taken as canon above any EU feat, so movement, melee combat speed, durability etc can all be taken from the film.



Yet it is impossible to gauge many feats in the movies. For example, why does Obi Wan fight so weakly in the original Star Wars? Because of the technological and budget restraints of the time. There's no update made on it, so according to G-canon, Darth Vader must have been merely playing with Obi Wan in their final fight.

George Lucas was never even thinking about these things when he made the originals, and he wasn't thinking at all when he made the prequels.


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## Rice Ball (Nov 6, 2008)

Hence why film feats that contradict the EU are taken as canon, and the EU is used for feats that don't contradict the film.

Budget restraints (Style over Substance Fallacy) are nothing to do with it.


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## C. Hook (Nov 6, 2008)

Rice Ball said:


> Hence why film feats *that contradict the EU are taken as canon,* and the EU is used for feats that don't contradict the film.



But that's just it, Obi Wan in the film is weak as hell, yet he was fighting against Darth Vader, who was NOT slacking off. 

Budget reasons have a lot to do with it, as do changes in direction (Lucas originally had the vision of making his sword fights incredibly slow, and having the actors fight as if the light sabre blades had mass. This was changed in Empire Strikes Back).


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## Starrk (Nov 6, 2008)

Free Force Chokes for everyone!


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## Michael Myers (Nov 6, 2008)

TWF said:


> Not really at all.
> .



Real words of wisdom there. Wow.
Scans please? If you can't provide them then leave.


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## KazeYama (Nov 6, 2008)

Rice Ball said:


> Hence why film feats that contradict the EU are taken as canon, and the EU is used for feats that don't contradict the film.
> 
> Budget restraints (Style over Substance Fallacy) are nothing to do with it.



Lots of things in the prequels contradict the original trilogy simply due to the technical differences and the way they were filmed but they are both still G-canon. Also everything, or most everything in the SWverse including the EU counts as canon there are simply different levels of it. G-canon only relates to material george lucas himself creates. If GL wrote a book that contradicted the movies it would still be G canon. 

Plus the OP specifically said to use the most powerful vader meaning we can take all of his high end feats and ignore all of the low end ones. 

Also EU feats are still valid. Just because Vader is stronger in some stories or has more powers doesn't mean it contradicts the films. It is only contradictory if it goes against the events of the films. Like if an EU story had Vader beat Obi Wan on Mustafar that would be seen as a contradiction but a story with Vader having improved durability wouldn't contradict anything.


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## Vynjira (Nov 6, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Budget reasons have a lot to do with it, as do changes in direction (Lucas originally had the vision of making his sword fights incredibly slow, and having the actors fight as if the light sabre blades had mass. This was changed in Empire Strikes Back).


Ok here's my beef with that. If it was budget then his original vision was what he wanted but didn't have the money to do. So you just claimed what he intended on was slow fights, and the budget didn't allow that.... So.. I need you to either restate what you wrote here or explain cause I'm confoozuled.


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## C. Hook (Nov 7, 2008)

Vynjira said:


> Ok here's my beef with that. If it was budget then his original vision was what he wanted but didn't have the money to do. So you just claimed what he intended on was slow fights, and the budget didn't allow that.... So.. I need you to either restate what you wrote here or explain cause I'm confoozuled.



His original vision of lightsaber fights was limited, and the fact that Alec was old when he played Kenobi meant that physical stress was not a good idea. Also, they are slow because the Samurai movies he was "inspired by" used that same kind of fighting.

His later movies (Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi) illustrated him finally shifting over to the current lightsaber style, but the budget limitations still limited what the fights could be.


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## skiboydoggy (Nov 7, 2008)

Which is why Star Wars: The Clone Wars has the most awesome saber fights in any movie. Animated fights are ALWAYS better than live action ones.


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## MarkosSadren (Nov 7, 2008)

Narutoverse has all kinds of techneques at all levels of power, Darth Vader would get creamed 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times over


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## Heartgobbler (Nov 7, 2008)

The movie Vader, definitely.

He only had two really impressive feats. One for speed (catching Han's blaster shots with his gauntlet) and one for the force (strangling an officer during a video conference - the guy was on another ship; apparently Vader only needs to see the target) 

However, threads like this use other incarnations of Vader; comics and books. And those give him much more power.


BTW. Lots of these books show Vader fighting. That alone is the proof that his strangling power isn't always the solution. (The star wars RPG handbook states that strangling isn't telekinesis. rather, it disrupts the force flow in the target's body, forcing the muscles to constrict. Is this explanation considered canon? If so, that would explain why Vader doesn't do it to powerful opponents; their lifeforce is stronger and harder to 'shift' )


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## strongarm85 (Nov 7, 2008)

KazeYama said:


> Lots of things in the prequels contradict the original trilogy simply due to the technical differences and the way they were filmed but they are both still G-canon. Also everything, or most everything in the SWverse including the EU counts as canon there are simply different levels of it. G-canon only relates to material george lucas himself creates. If GL wrote a book that contradicted the movies it would still be G canon.
> 
> Plus the OP specifically said to use the most powerful vader meaning we can take all of his high end feats and ignore all of the low end ones.
> 
> Also EU feats are still valid. Just because Vader is stronger in some stories or has more powers doesn't mean it contradicts the films. It is only contradictory if it goes against the events of the films. Like if an EU story had Vader beat Obi Wan on Mustafar that would be seen as a contradiction but a story with Vader having improved durability wouldn't contradict anything.



A little known truth about Star Wars Canon Policy. Fan-creations are actually considered canon as long as they do not contradict anything that is a higher canon than it.

I can even think of one example where something that started out as Fan-Canon became Movie-Canon. The Character Shak-Tii was originally a piece of fan art that George Lucas' attention and he later decided to use it. After that the character evolved what we have now.


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## strongarm85 (Nov 7, 2008)

Heartgobbler said:


> The movie Vader, definitely.
> 
> He only had two really impressive feats. One for speed (catching Han's blaster shots with his gauntlet) and one for the force (strangling an officer during a video conference - the guy was on another ship; apparently Vader only needs to see the target)
> 
> ...



Here is what you don't understand. As long as the Novel and Video Games ect. do not contradict something something that happened in the movies they're canon. Anything EU, that has to do with Darth Vader, is canon as long as it doesn't contradict something from a higher canon source. That is the official Star Wars Canon Policy.

There are no multiple versions of Vader running around. There's just one version.


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## Aokiji (Nov 7, 2008)

strongarm85 said:


> A little known truth about Star Wars Canon Policy. *Fan-creations are actually considered canon as long as they do not contradict anything that is a higher canon than it.*
> 
> I can even think of one example where something that started out as Fan-Canon became Movie-Canon. The Character Shak-Tii was originally a piece of fan art that George Lucas' attention and he later decided to use it. After that the character evolved what we have now.



1- Sweet, we can create a reality warping, FTL, class 100 strength character with Juggernaut's invulnerability, if it doesn't contradict the higher canons. 

2. Wait, so Lucas using a fan creation in his canon proves that fanfics are canon?


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## Heartgobbler (Nov 7, 2008)

If so, what is his 'canon' speed and agility? even in the little I have read, it varies greatly.

It is perhaps the most important question, since there is a large speed gap between movie star wars and narutoverse (This may be partially nulified by Vader's precognition powers of course)

On a different note; from last weeks' feats; I assume Pein's "repulsor field" is considered a building buster?


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## Orion (Nov 7, 2008)

Why would it be considered a building buster?


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## EvilMoogle (Nov 7, 2008)

The only real way to reconcile the different "versions" of Vader is to assume that as he aged and got progressively more cybernetic parts his speed/skill went down.

This explains slow robo-Vader from EpIV/V/VI.

(Or you can just say EU's an alternate universe like I do, but that tends to annoy people  )


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## Rice Ball (Nov 7, 2008)

It is a alternate universe according to Lucas


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## EvilMoogle (Nov 7, 2008)

Rice Ball said:


> It is a alternate universe according to Lucas



Hence my position 

But don't worry, one of the SWEU fans will be by in a few hours to tell us why we're wrong.


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## Estrecca (Nov 7, 2008)

EvilMoogle said:


> Hence my position
> 
> But don't worry, one of the SWEU fans will be by in a few hours to tell us why we're wrong.



The last conclusion of the canon debate (liable to change the next time George gives an interview) explains that Lucas acknowledges two different continuities: his own including G and T canon (original movies, novelizations of the movies, audio-dramatization of the movies, plus the recent 3D movie and cartoon) and "the books" (essentially, all the rest of the EU including C-canon and below). 

There is EU stuff that has ended in the movies and the movies also happen in EU continuity, but Lucas has pretty much stated that he doesn't care all that much about the continuity created by other writers. Not sure how I feel about this.


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## Vynjira (Nov 7, 2008)

Estrecca said:


> explains that Lucas acknowledges two different continuities: his own including G and T canon


Which is 2 parallel Star Wars universes..





> There is EU stuff that has ended in the movies and the movies also happen in EU continuity


Their parallel thus similarities..


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## Heartgobbler (Nov 7, 2008)

> Why would it be considered a building buster?






Because it left nothing but piles of rubble in its wake?


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## God Emperor of Mankind (Nov 7, 2008)

battlerek said:


> How does this go? *You may use any medium that Vader has appeared in.*



Because people can't read.

EU Vader curbstomps.

Movie Vader gets curbstomped.

End this stupid thread naokthxbai


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## neodragzero (Nov 7, 2008)

Heartgobbler said:


> Because it left nothing but piles of rubble in its wake?


Link removed
Link removed
Link removed

There already was rubble and so on in the immediate area and it's pretty obvious that he's outdoors. There's no clear shot of him destroying a building...while it makes absolutely no sense that he can bust a building but Kakashi doesn't just simply get splattered after having his body hit by it so many times. Kakashi isn't more durable than a building.


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## Ork (Nov 7, 2008)

...
Where did the rubble COME from? I suppose the buildings just disintegrated on their own? Clear building busting.


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## neodragzero (Nov 7, 2008)

Absence said:


> ...
> Where did the rubble COME from? I suppose the buildings just disintegrated on their own? Clear building busting.



Link removed
Link removed
Link removed

Yeah...It's really hard to see where it comes from.


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## Heartgobbler (Nov 7, 2008)

Actually its either inconcistence on Kishi's part or a serious durability feat on Kakashi's part. Because the first time Pein used his barrier...



Seeing what it did to a stone wall, an ordinary man should turn to ketchup. There would be nothing left to identify.

Kind of reminded me of this one

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9xCgNdZPKk[/YOUTUBE]


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## neodragzero (Nov 7, 2008)

Except that it's just a miniature stone wall that was made through Kakashi doing a doton. It's still nowhere near enough to suggest that Kakashi has building+ durability.


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## alchemy1234 (Nov 7, 2008)

lol so many star wars geeks here its disgusting. part 1 sasuke at vote would beat vader to a pulp.


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## Fang (Nov 7, 2008)

So anyway Vader stomps.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2008)

alchemy1234 said:


> lol so many star wars geeks here its disgusting. part 1 sasuke at vote would beat vader to a pulp.



My most detailed analysis:
If only the uchiha were there.
^^ Absolutely irrefutable.


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## Fang (Nov 7, 2008)

Also massive :snorlax: at the canonicity of EU being brought up again.

Not that it matters when TFU was offically approved by fax and word of mouth by Lucas himself directly and has G-canon all over it.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2008)

EU canon debates have about as much relevance as Dragon's gay porn collection.


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## alchemy1234 (Nov 7, 2008)

TWF said:


> So anyway Vader stomps.



were you bought up in retardville. 
Theres no way vader can even beat part 1 sasuke. let alone 9 bijuus with the 9 tails being capable of causing tsunamis and destroying mountains with just one tail, Madara, Sasuke, ITachi with tsukiyomi, amaterasu, susanoo, and kakashi and deidara with his hundreds of bombs and other akatsuki members at the same time. Not to mention there are characters that can split up the earth and swallow anyone standing on it. force powers will help... lol yea right. in your inane fanboy mind they might.


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## Fang (Nov 7, 2008)

The OBD mods and advisors think its 1987 again.


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## Fang (Nov 7, 2008)

alchemy1234 said:


> were you bought up in retardville.
> Theres no way vader can even beat part 1 sasuke. let alone 9 bijuus with the 9 tails being capable of causing tsunamis and destroying mountains with just one tail, Madara, Sasuke, ITachi with tsukiyomi, amaterasu, susanoo, and kakashi and deidara with his hundreds of bombs and other akatsuki members at the same time. Not to mention there are characters that can split up the earth and swallow anyone standing on it. force powers will help... lol yea right. in your inane fanboy mind they might.



:snorlax:

I'm sure Vader will worry about that while instantly choking Itachi and Sasuke in the Force kilometers away.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2008)

TWF said:


> The OBD mods and advisors think its 1987 again.



Gotta relive that nostalgia.


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## Fang (Nov 7, 2008)

Also my imagination is canon therefore I am imagining that G-canon applies to EU.

Because Lucas said thats allowed. I think we solved the problem, CD.


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## alchemy1234 (Nov 7, 2008)

TWF said:


> :snorlax:
> 
> I'm sure Vader will worry about that while instantly choking Itachi and Sasuke in the Force kilometers away.



he wont be able to force choke them form several kilometers away unless he sees through atleast a camera and knows about their existance. they will most likely meet on some place and just when he looks at itachi in the eye he will be genjutsued to hell at the same time roasted by kirin and kyuubi would jump on him and crush his entire body at the same time throw black chakra orbs of death completely destroying the already crippled vader, while kakashi warps half his body back to the death star.

Well this is unecessary really. sasuke part 1 would take him down alone. one chidori to his ugly face and the lethargic vader who cant even move properly in his suit would be dead.

heck i forgot he doesn't even need to look any uchiha in the eye to loose instantaneously. genjutsu can be cast by other mediums such as sound and so on. he even wont be able to dispel a simple genjutsu.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2008)

Go back to the Library

You're boring too


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## Fang (Nov 7, 2008)

Yeah lets not forget about Vader's Precognitive powers, Force-enhanced reflexes, abilitiy to redirect and absorb energy, superhuman strength and speed and Telekentic power that lets him match with a guy whose nearly a city block buster with the Force.

Or Vader just telepathically enslaving Sasuke and Itachi under his will.


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## alchemy1234 (Nov 7, 2008)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> *Go back to the Library*
> 
> You're boring too



go get laid.

too bad you're too boring, so its prolly not possible.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2008)

Okay I'm going to give this a shot

vader can see every possible future because qui gon said he sees things before they happen therefore he gets the first shot and they all choke to death.  vadar reads minds and knows what they'll do before they do it and he said the power of the death star is insignificant to the power of the force therefore vader destroys narutoverse since he is planet buster.

they don't stand a chance


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2008)

alchemy1234 said:


> go get laid.
> 
> too bad you're too boring, so its prolly not possible.



What an amazing comeback.

I am now rendered speechless before your irrefutable wit and logic.


----------



## alchemy1234 (Nov 7, 2008)

TWF said:


> Yeah lets not forget about Vader's Precognitive powers, Force-enhanced reflexes, abilitiy to redirect and absorb energy, superhuman strength and speed and Telekentic power that lets him match with a guy whose nearly a city block buster with the Force.
> 
> Or Vader just telepathically enslaving Sasuke and Itachi under his will.



oh yeah lets not forget sharingans predictive powers. and the superhuman strength of ninjas in general. even gai can punch guys through walls and hes frikking weak when compared to upper tier naruto vere ninjas. even a weakling like tsunade can pick up a ton heavy swords and demolish entire buildings. also lets not forget madaras space time ninjutsu, kakashi space time warping, pains - despite him being a shit character - ability to absorb attacks, itachis susanoo defense and a shit load of other stuff.

Vader can only telepathically enslave those with a weak mind. also are you frikking stupid? you think hell have the time to think when million shinobis throw all their moves at him. genjutsu btw will kick his ass. so much for telepathy.


----------



## alchemy1234 (Nov 7, 2008)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> What an amazing comeback.
> *
> I am now rendered speechless before your irrefutable wit and logic.*



ok cool then.

now go get laid. or atleast try.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2008)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> vader can see every possible future because qui gon said he sees things before they happen therefore he gets the first shot and they all choke to death.  vadar reads minds and knows what they'll do before they do it and he said the power of the death star is insignificant to the power of the force therefore vader destroys narutoverse since he is planet buster.
> 
> they don't stand a chance



I still stand by this.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2008)

What an excellent way to up my post count.


----------



## alchemy1234 (Nov 7, 2008)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> What an excellent way to up my post count.



wow.. this really is your biggest accomplishment in life right? your moment of glory...? your parents would be proud.. or so you think..congratulations on discovering a way to up your post count! now your life has some meaning!!

star wars geeks, truly a sad existance. 

hey how long did you wait outside the hall for the first showing of ep3? one, two weeks??


----------



## alchemy1234 (Nov 7, 2008)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> My most detailed analysis:
> Brokage
> ^^ Absolutely irrefutable.



wookay... and your point?


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Nov 7, 2008)

alchemy1234 said:


> wookay... and your point?



I think he's trying to say that a geek like you really shouldn't be calling names.


----------



## alchemy1234 (Nov 7, 2008)

lol a star wars geek calling someone like me a geek? haha print screen. this is priceless.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2008)

lol, 'someone like me'


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2008)

And I like how my point had to be explained by someone.


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Nov 7, 2008)

alchemy1234 said:


> lol a star wars geek calling someone like me a geek? haha print screen. this is priceless.



Well, for one thing, lol at me being a Star Wars geek since I know jack shit about the series.

Secondly, lol you are a huge fucking geek kid.

You really need to learn what constitutes a geek.  Reading the Star Wars EU so they actually know what they are talking about does not equal a geek.  Being so into a series that you right up a long analysis on two of the main characters does make you a geek.

So yeah, you are a geek.  Get over it.


----------



## Vynjira (Nov 7, 2008)

I think everyone on this forum is insulted by the negative connotations you people are trying to give to geeks. Regardless, the topic was any version of Vadar..

EU is noted as being extremely more powerful than the movies. So then debating cannon is stupid. Because their allowed to use anything they want as a source.

@TWF: *Politely* You should PM me..


----------



## alchemy1234 (Nov 7, 2008)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> And I like how my point had to be explained by someone.



sorry, you see i don't understand geek language over the net.



Snake Plissken said:


> *Well, for one thing, lol at me being a Star Wars geek since I know jack shit about the series.
> *



i wasn't even talking to you. mr. <wanna feel important>.



> Secondly, lol you are a huge fucking geek kid.



haha if you say so. also 12 yr olds shouldn't call senior people kids, sonny boy.



> You really need to learn what constitutes a geek.  Reading the Star Wars EU so they actually know what they are talking about does not equal a geek.  Being so into a series that you right up a long analysis on two of the main characters does make you a geek.



last time I checked no one gave a shit about your definition of a geek. Making an analysis of two characters and critiquing a series equates to one being a geek???  prolly in your puny brain it does. thats why you even misunderstood and thought i was actually talking to you when I called the other guy a geek.



> So yeah, you are a geek.  Get over it.


lol whatever.



Vynjira said:


> I think everyone on this forum is insulted by the negative connotations you people are trying to give to geeks. Regardless, the topic was any version of Vadar..
> 
> EU is noted as being extremely more powerful than the movies. So then debating cannon is stupid. Because their allowed to use anything they want as a source.
> 
> @TWF: *Politely* You should PM me..



darth vader from EU would get crushed. I was talking about darth vader from EU when I said he'd get powned by naruto verse and even part 1 sasuke would be enough to pawn him.

also if you want to include starwars EU then also include naruto fillers. in which some people even had reality warping abilities. so much for darth fart vader.


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Nov 7, 2008)

alchemy1234 said:


> sorry, you see i don't understand geek language over the net.



How do you not understand your own native tongue?




> i wasn't even talking to you. mr. <wanna feel important>.



I said something, then you replied to what I said.  You are right, how could I EVER think that someone replying to something that I said was talking to me.  I'm so sorry!  I think I'll go cry over what a mistake I've made and how I'll never know happiness again now.

(Since you need things like this to be explained to you, I was being sarcastic.)



> haha if you say so. also 12 yr olds shouldn't call senior people kids, sonny boy.



...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.



> last time I checked no one gave a shit about your definition of a geek. Making an analysis of two characters and critiquing a series equates to one being a geek???  prolly in your puny brain it does. thats why you even misunderstood and thought i was actually talking to you when I called the other guy a geek.
> 
> 
> lol whatever.



lol whatever is right.  You are a geek, get the fuck over it.  Making an analysis of two characters and critiquing a series DOES equate to being a geek, dipshit.  At least more of a geek then people who the only reason you are calling geeks is because they actually have read the series.

So, please, enlighten us, how is anyone else in this thread a geek when you have gone that far into Naruto yet all they have done is shown they actually know about Star Wars?

It'll be hilarious to see you try and come up with an answer.


----------



## Vynjira (Nov 7, 2008)

I think its safe to say if your post count is over 10 on an "*Anime*" forum you lose any rights to deny being called a geek.

Again, negative connotations are being given to geeks...


----------



## Shock Therapy (Nov 7, 2008)

why are you guys arguing about who's a geek over the internet. that's just retarded


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Nov 7, 2008)

rawrawraw said:


> why are you guys arguing about who's a geek over the internet. that's just retarded



No one is arguing over who is a geek.  I never said I wasn't a geek, I said I wasn't a Star Wars geek.

Anywhoo, it's not arguing who is a geek it's laughing at alchemy 'cause he seriously thinks he isn't a geek when anyone with a brain can see that he is.

As for the topic, I don't know anything about EU Vader.  Movie Vader gets stomped.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2008)

Vynjira said:


> Because their allowed to use anything they want as a source.



I don't see anyone claiming Yoda can pull down the Death Star.

"Anything they want as a source" is bullshit since there is a canon tree.  What-if events are clearly non-canon, which is where the aforementioned Yoda feat took place in.

But let's not get into this now since



Crimson Dragoon said:


> EU canon debates have about as much relevance as Dragon's gay porn collection.


----------



## alchemy1234 (Nov 7, 2008)

Snake Plissken said:


> How do you not understand your own native tongue?




english is not my native tongue kid.


> At least more of a geek then people who the only reason you are calling geeks is because they actually have read the series.


i called him a geek because he was showing enough bias to make ridiculous statements about how darth vader could solo naruto verse. not to mention talking about how he can up his post count and some other shit. also reading EU, something not even made by the real author is like the geekiest fucking shit anyone can do. lol "oh noes darth vader can throw plasma beams and destroy death stars." fuck that shite.


----------



## Vynjira (Nov 7, 2008)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I don't see anyone claiming Yoda can pull down the Death Star.





battlerek said:


> How does this go? You may use any medium that Vader has appeared in.


Because Yoda isn't involved.. the topic allows for anything cannon or not.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2008)

I thought you were talking about EU, not the thread itself.


----------



## Vynjira (Nov 7, 2008)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I thought you were talking about EU, not the thread itself.


I said arguing its value as cannon is stupid, because it doesn't matter in this thread.


----------



## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Nov 7, 2008)

alchemy1234 said:


> i called him a geek because he was showing enough bias to make ridiculous statements about how darth vader could solo naruto verse. not to mention talking about how he can up his post count and some other shit. also reading EU, something not even made by the real author is like the geekiest fucking shit anyone can do. lol "oh noes darth vader can throw plasma beams and destroy death stars." fuck that shite.



Anyways, for the match, I need a few things cleared up here.  When you say it's Vader vs Narutoverse, how is it going down?  Is he dropped in Narutoverse and has to take them out?  I can see him winning that.  Is it everyone vs him at the same time?  I can see him getting overwhelmed by numbers.  You can't really just say him vs the verse without giving a little bit more info.


----------



## alchemy1234 (Nov 7, 2008)

Snake Plissken said:


> **



its late in the night in the place i'm at - 4 am. so just because i didn't understand 'one' comment from crimson dragoon, it doesn't mean I cant decipher sarcasm and other shit being said.

i won't reply to your flammatory post, since i came to apologize to TWF, crimsoon dragon, and you. yep i was the aggressor. I could have stated my points in a different manner. I still think the idea of darth vader from EU or not - soloing the naruto verse is beyond stupid - atleast in my opinion.


----------



## Fang (Nov 7, 2008)

This thread has taken a turn to faggotry when claims about EU Vader getting stomped aren't even explained.

Also lol at the argument from ignorance fallacy this guy is spouting with.


----------



## Vynjira (Nov 7, 2008)

TWF said:


> This thread has taken a turn to faggotry when claims about EU Vader getting stomped aren't even explained.
> 
> Also lol at the argument from ignorance fallacy this guy is spouting with.


I said you should PM me


----------



## Fang (Nov 7, 2008)

PM you about what?


----------



## Heartgobbler (Nov 7, 2008)

> This thread has taken a turn to faggotry when claims about EU Vader getting stomped aren't even explained.



I managed to miss the last two pages of this thread but if you ask the question like this, I could give some possible answers.

For example, movie evidence shows that despite what Yoda said, mass does make a difference when using telekinesis. It takes a greater effort of will to move larger objects and a jedi performing such a feat is vulnerable to attack due to the concentration involved.

What will Vader do if Jiraya drops "foodcart demolisher" toad on top of him? True, it will be hurt by landing on the lightsaber but with its size, the wound won't be deep enough to take it out (which would save Vader by making it unsummon)


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 7, 2008)

EU Vader is the same as movie Vader - just with more showings.

Still I don't see how he can win by himself.


----------



## Michael Myers (Nov 7, 2008)

TWF said:


> So anyway Vader stomps.



Yet you give nothing but text. Your a failure.


----------



## C. Hook (Nov 7, 2008)

Michael Myers said:


> Yet you give nothing but text. Your a failure.



What, is it now easy to get scans from Star Wars comics? Is it now possible to post videos from the books? It's not like there's an available source like One Manga.


----------



## Michael Myers (Nov 7, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> What, is it now easy to get scans from Star Wars comics? Is it now possible to post videos from the books? It's not like there's an available source like One Manga.



I'm sorry but that is not my problem. If he can't back up his claims then I can't believe him. And no I am not doing this to piss you off. I would love to know how he would win, but he can't help me.


----------



## FreshBaked (Nov 8, 2008)

Does Darth Vader have access to all his toys?

In that case, Death Star > all.

[/thread]


----------



## Fang (Nov 8, 2008)

Michael Myers said:


> Yet you give nothing but text. Your a failure.



The majority of his feats come from the novels. Derp derp. And several of his feats have been posted as excerpts. He was matching Starkiller in the Force.

The same guy who can do this.


*Spoiler*: __ 





			
				Force Unleashed page 29 said:
			
		

> Dropping off the ramp and onto a conveyor belt, he ran to the head of the slave convoy and dropped the lead stormtroopers before they even saw him. He swing his lightsaber twice more, cutting the binders of the lead Wookiee slave to make clear his intent, then reached reached up with the Force and telekinetically wrenched the far wall's ramp out of its footings, spilling the guards to the bottom of the trench






And this...
*Spoiler*: __ 





			
				Force Unleashed Page 296-298 said:
			
		

> The Wookiee leading the way came to a sudden halt, looking confused. Ahead lay a complex tangle of pipes and hoses that could not be crossed. Judging by the accusations flying back and forth, it was obviously a feature of the evolving station that was new to all of the Wookiees. After much gesticulation and howling, it was apparently agreed that they would need to cross the trench and continue their journey on the far side.
> 
> They edged as close to open space as they dared and took stock. They were some distance now from the site of the breakout, but the alert had spread. Stormtroopers held their blasters at ready; walkers turned from side to side, raking the trench with their gunsights. Every thirty seconds a squadron of TIE-Fighters screamed overhead. Sirens added a constant counterpoint, putting the Apprentice's teeth on edge.
> 
> ...


----------



## Fang (Nov 8, 2008)

Vader and Starkiller's fight on the Death Star.
*Spoiler*: __ 





			
				Force Unleashed page 306-310 said:
			
		

> Darth Vader and the Emperor turned at the same moment. A surge of hatred filled every vein of the Apprentice's body. The time for revenge had come at last. The Emperor's hateful visage twisted into a mask of derision.
> 
> "Lord Vader, deal with the boy. Properly, this time." The Dark Lord was already moving. The red blade of his lightsaber flared into life, casting bloody shadows across the room. There was no dicussion. He offered no threats. It was clear he intended only to complete what he had failed to finish on Corellia. The Apprentice knew exactly what to expect. They had dueled many times before. He had learned how to fight at the hands of the man in the black suit--the man whose face had been forever hidden from him. He knew the intimacies of his refined version of Djem So, a fighting style that incorporated elements of Ataru, Soresu, and Makashi. He had fended off many wild, slashing attacks that would have overwhelmed even an extraordinary Jedi Knight. He had borne the brunt of many psychological battles.
> 
> ...


----------



## Fang (Nov 8, 2008)

Starkiller's Telekentic powers at work once more.
*Spoiler*: __ 





			
				Force Unleashed page 167-169 said:
			
		

> The Moorings were larger even than he had guessed from the brief plans displayed by the astromech droid. Its mistress's instructions had been simple" destroy the moorings and the skyhook would be ruined. That sounded deceptively easy, given the amount of fortification and security in place.
> 
> Simplicity suited him, however. He didn't want to think, to have to agonize over motives and methods. He just wanted to act. With none of the joy he had felt while assaulting the lodge and with none of the challenge offered by the black Imperial Guards on Bespin, he plowed through the faceless stormtroopers as a wampa would stride through snow. Sith lightning crackled; bodies broke under his irresistible telekinesis; his mind influenced the decisions of officers, who ordered their underlings to attack one another in droves. None could stand up to him and survive.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ippy (Nov 8, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Also, they are slow because the Samurai movies he was "inspired by" used that same kind of fighting.


Kenjutsu techniques aren't "slow".

They are just not superfluous, overly elaborate, and flashy.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 8, 2008)

Taichou said:


> Kenjutsu techniques aren't "slow".
> 
> They are just not superfluous, overly elaborate, and flashy.



Yeah.  The prequels take care of that.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 10, 2008)

To be fair Vader won't encounter much trouble until he starts fighting, people like Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, or Pein. That's my opinion anyways, he's going to struggle with the High tier people, as well as People who fight long range (Gaara, Deidara) the others probably won't last long unless they have Insane and suicidal trump cards (Gai, Lee, Deidara again, etc...). The rest will be little more than fodder for him (Iruka Mizuki, Hinata, TenTen, some of the sound four etc...). that's assuming they're not all attacking in mass, which if he's in Konoha is very likely to happen, then even against an army of fodder with non-fodder mixed in, he's more than likely to fall, unless he starts to majorly spam the Force abilities.

I'm going to chalk a win up to the Narutoverse simply because of the vast number of opponents, there's no way he's going to beat everyone, he's going to tire eventually, and someone's going to eventually crack his helmet open. 

I'm using the EU and TFU Vader by the way to gauge his strengh, it should also be known that I'm a Star Wars Fan, so there you go.


----------



## C. Hook (Nov 10, 2008)

Taichou said:


> Kenjutsu techniques aren't "slow".



They sure were in _Star Wars_, especially considering that in the immediate sequel, that weakness was removed.



Taichou said:


> They are just not superfluous, overly elaborate, and flashy.



_Empire Strikes Back _included superfluous, overly elaborate, and flashy moves?


----------



## Vynjira (Nov 10, 2008)

I remember 4 Lightning Element Masters, who would have vaporised Konoha right? Their weakness was being 4 people focusing on the target. I don't think its a stretch for DV to do the same a couple times and force kill anyone who tries to attack him directly... Force Pre-cog destroys the use of clones, it also negates the ability to catch him in a Genjutsu or Kakashi's warp. He will know its coming before it happens. He will also know which targets he needs to kill first.

I will be the first to say Pre-cog is not an end all and cannot hope to defend against real speedsters or people that can manipulate time, but there needs to be a significant advantage over the Jedi's own reflexes to render pre-cog useless.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 10, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> They sure were in _Star Wars_, especially considering that in the immediate sequel, that weakness was removed.



I really don't think they were that slow.  They were just busy probing each other for weaknesses or something.  I actually liked Vader and Old Ben's duel.



> _Empire Strikes Back _included superfluous, overly elaborate, and flashy moves?



Not even close to what goes on in the prequels.


----------



## C. Hook (Nov 10, 2008)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I really don't think they were that slow.  They were just busy probing each other for weaknesses or something.  I actually liked Vader and Old Ben's duel.



Okay. They were still ridiculously slow compared to Luke and Vader



Crimson Dragoon said:


> Not even close to what goes on in the prequels.



I wasn't talking about the prequels.


----------



## Seyta (Nov 10, 2008)

If Amaterasu is barred i think vader would win....

If he gets hit by Amaterasu i dont think he could do anything but blow up as much as he can will dying...


----------



## Vynjira (Nov 10, 2008)

Obi and Vadar's match I always thought to be a battle of pre-cog, they were calculating all the possible attack to put themselves in a better position. Which is the stark contrast to when the less experienced Skywalker lashed out with more rage. Not necessarily taking the time to find the best moves but strong quick moves with Obi countering.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 10, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> I wasn't talking about the prequels.



I didn't say you were.

But I do agree that ESB is quicker paced than ANH.


----------



## Ork (Nov 10, 2008)

Vader has nice reflexes and force precog, but would force precog be able to pick the real threat out of a cloud of Shadow clones/mizu bunshin/Doton bunshin or whatever, each of which are able to hurt him?

It would be very akward in the least.


----------



## Fang (Nov 11, 2008)

Because the Force wouldn't tell Vader which one isn't the doppleganger right? Or the fact that he tanks Force attacks equivalent to explosions.

Anyway, Vader's Force-enhanced reflexes + precognition is just way too above anything in speed that Naruto has, well above it.

And like I said, in the recent EU novels, he has showcased the ability  to rob people's memories and reprogram their minds.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 11, 2008)

Why is this still going on?

The only way he could possibly win by himself is by building up his own organization, using the Force to "persuade" people to join him, amassing power over a long period of time, and finally striking.

He's not going to defeat them all in direct combat.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 11, 2008)

Endless Mike said:


> Why is this still going on?
> 
> He's not going to defeat them all in direct combat.




Agreed, there's no way he's going to get through all of them, especially if they all attack in mass, it's just physically impossible in my opinion for him to kill an entire universe, even a cyborg Sith has limits.


----------



## Reddan (Nov 11, 2008)

The Vader of the films would get totally destroyed by a group of jounin let alone the entire movie verse. Jedi telepathic powers are greatly over rated. Vader peaked at the ROTS so I do not care what the books say, because he never was more powerful than then. Powerful jedi like Luke, Qui Gon and Anakin fail to control the strong minded. So I doubt anyone passed jounin level would fall for their tricks.

Now lets talk about jedi reflexes. The jedi do have incredible reflexes, but their speed is nothing scary. When shot with multiple weapons they have not got the speed to deflect them all and die. AN example of this is council members being shot down in ROTS (Ki adi Mundi).

Jedi telekinisses is also blown way out of proportion. In the films the only jedi that manages to perform telekinetic acts whilst wielding a lightsabre is Vader and this is against a very inexperienced Luke. In AOTC  we are told the lightsabre is the life of a jedi and without it they could not even beat beast Sakura could punch to death. 

Vader soon dies after Deidara flies above him and drops a bomb or Naruto so Gamabunta, Kisame sends a tsunami at him etc. Lol Vader taking on the universe when he cannot even take on en elite kage.

EU Vader is a different story, but whats he going to do when the 4 tails spits lava at him. I am sure even in the books Vader must have a weakness to lava since that did kind of do him in.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 11, 2008)

Actually being "strong minded" just helps you resist weak Force suggestion - actual mind control can't be resisted that way, the only reason people like Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon didn't try it is because it's a Dark Side power (that Vader would have no trouble using - in fact he later interrogated one of Watto's race and broke his mind with the Force).

Furthermore, many force users fight without the use of lightsabers - such as the Emperor in ROTJ.


----------



## Seyta (Nov 11, 2008)

There are an immeasurable amount of ways Vader can be killed like this....

-Sasuke hits him with Kirin
-Naruto's RasenShuriken
-Deidara's Bombs
-Kakashi sending his body parts off into other dimensions
-KN4 blasting energy at him....
-Gamabunta hitting him with a giant blade
-Gaara crushes him
-Jiraiya puts him in the stomach of a Frog...
-Amaterasu...
-Tsunade punches him....
-Orochimaru summons a number of giant snakes on him
-Pein's body eats his soul...
-Kisame hits him with a Tsunami

the list goes on and on....


----------



## Fang (Nov 11, 2008)

All of which have been countered, Kirin takes an insane time to power up and Sasuke doesn't control weather nor does it matter when Vader simply TK crushes him along with the majority of the characters you mentioned. C4 won't do shit through his breather or filtration systems, Tsunade and the rest are horrribly outclassed in speed, reflexes and no one is tanking lightsaber blows.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Nov 11, 2008)

with prep time Vader crushes Naruto-verse because he will definetly convert powerful people to the dark side...

but if they just ripped DV from his tie fighter and put him on a field surrounded by everyone and everything in the Narutoverse there is no way he can win...he's a good force user but he ain't THAT good.

now Exar or Nihilus would be a different story.


----------



## Superrazien (Nov 11, 2008)

Vader rapes.


----------



## Caedus (Nov 11, 2008)

Force Crush FTW


----------



## Darwithian (Nov 14, 2008)

Totally agree with you there, yo.
Yeah, some of the stuff in the Narutoverse is hella badass.
Nowhere near on Vader's level....
Vader needs no time to prepare for an atack. He just does it and has preemptive attacks on everyone and everything in his way.
You can't hit something you can't touch.
By the time anyone in the Narutoverse got attack off, they would be doing it in the Afterlife, cause Vader would have force fucked them to death lol. JK.
But on a serious note, Vader would emerge victorious.
As much as I would cut for Itachi and Pain.... Nah.
Gotta give it to the Vader, yo.


----------



## Ork (Nov 15, 2008)

TWF said:


> You realize that Naruto was meant as the entirety of the series right? Let's see, genjutsu is totally useless, considering how nothing they have can overcome Vader's reflexes of his Precognition or match his Telekentic powers or Telepathy, yeah, I'm sure he's worried about Kirin or C18 or Amaterasu which all take massive amount of time to prepare and power.
> 
> So snorlax to your entire post.



Nothing can? Proof please?
YOu like to make statements such as "Garen Malek can solo this"
"DV is immunie to Genjutsu" and so forth. Where's your proof please?
Show me.


----------



## skiboydoggy (Nov 15, 2008)

Vader is a more powerful telepath than all of the ninja. Why would Genjutsu even bother him?


----------



## Ork (Nov 15, 2008)

skiboydoggy said:


> Vader is a more powerful telepath than all of the ninja. Why would Genjutsu even bother him?



Telepath? No. He's a force user. Similar Abilities, different reason for them. Force users, midicholrians, Telepaths, Brain.
Even if he was a Telepath, how do you know that would affect Genjutsu? Gentutsu is the fooling of all the senses, what is telepathy but another sense?


----------



## C-Moon (Nov 15, 2008)

Absence said:


> Telepath? No. He's a force user. Similar Abilities, different reason for them. Force users, midicholrians, Telepaths, Brain.
> Even if he was a Telepath, how do you know that would affect Genjutsu? Gentutsu is the fooling of all the senses, what is telepathy but another sense?



Genjutsu only fools the 5 senses. Otherwise, you'll get nonsense like "Sharingan genjutsu will beat stand users like Dio."


----------



## Zaelapolopollo (Nov 15, 2008)

Endless Mike said:


> Why is this still going on?



Three letters:
TWF.


----------



## Fang (Nov 15, 2008)

Absence said:


> Telepath? No. He's a force user. Similar Abilities, different reason for them. Force users, midicholrians, Telepaths, Brain.



Someone doesn't know Star Wars.



> Even if he was a Telepath, how do you know that would affect Genjutsu? Gentutsu is the fooling of all the senses, what is telepathy but another sense?



Because obviously putting up someone who can actually filter out external illusions, sustain Telepathic attacks on people, rob their memories and control their cognitive functions against street level illusionists is going to work?

First prove that genjutsu won't get filtered through his cybernetic systems and sensors. Second prove that a Telepath who doesn't need to use his vision to locate and kill his opponets will just sit there in any illusion.

Secondly, the Force specifically grants psyhic powers. Try again. On the flipside, its awesome how you have no idea of how the Force works in Star Wars.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2008)

Wait, is absence seriously claiming that Vader isn't a telepath?


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## Ork (Nov 15, 2008)

TWF said:


> Secondly, the Force specifically grants psyhic powers. Try again. On the flipside, its awesome how you have no idea of how the Force works in Star Wars.



Here's my point.
The force. I'm not arguing that they arent able to use the same abilties as a Telepath. I'm Arguing that they arent "Telepaths"
They're force users.
Same result, different reasons.
My take on classical Telepathy has always been that its more to do with the brain than "Midichlorians".

And thats not my argument TWF, I was arguing that Genjutsu fools the mind, so it should be able to fool Telepaths.


----------



## Fang (Nov 15, 2008)

Endless Mike said:


> Wait, is absence seriously claiming that Vader isn't a telepath?



Force Users who have showcased Telepathic and psyhic powers aren't psyhics or psionics because of the Force.

Appearently yes.



Absence said:


> Here's my point.
> The force. I'm not arguing that they arent able to use the same abilties as a Telepath. I'm Arguing that they arent "Telepaths"
> They're force users.
> Same result, different reasons.
> My take on classical Telepathy has always been that its more to do with the brain than "Midichlorians".



Midicholrians are generated through the Force, not the otherway around. The Force creates life, life does not create the Force.



> And thats not my argument TWF, I was arguing that Genjutsu fools the mind, so it should be able to fool Telepaths.



It isn't fooling someone who mind-rapes other psyhics and telepaths.

Except that's not how genjutsu works at all, genjutsu even states what it is in it's name...*illusion techniques*. And they work by affecting the five senses, not the mind.

Sight.
Sound.
Touch.
Taste.
Smell.

Now considering the only sound based genjutsu was from low tiers who low tier characters have resisted and touch and taste don't exist, and smell hasn't been used, all that leaves for the main stay of the Naruto universe is sight.

Now again explain how a psyhic/telepath who has artifical sensors and technology filtering for his eyes and ears, no sense of smell and no need to other then Telepathically kill them is going to be bothered?


----------



## Ork (Nov 15, 2008)

TWF said:


> Force Users who have showcased Telepathic and psyhic powers aren't psyhics or psionics because of the Force.
> 
> Appearently yes.
> 
> ...




If it didn't affect the mind, and only affected the senses, then other people  than the target would be influenced by illusions.
It has to convince the mind that the input its recieving is correct.

Midichlorians are generated through the force?
I always assumed they were living organelles that, through a symbiotic relationship with their host, allowed them access to the force.

"*Midi-chlorians* were intelligent microscopic life forms that lived symbiotically inside the cells of all living things. When present in sufficient numbers, they could allow their symbiont to detect the pervasive energy field known as . " 

Thats my understanding of them, from what I can tell, they're present at birth, or not as the case may be, and access to the force is dependant on them.


And yes, At your first statement, thats my opinion exactly. They're force users, not telepaths. They're force users that are able to in some cases, use Telepathic Abilities.


----------



## Fang (Nov 15, 2008)

Absence said:


> If it didn't affect the mind, and only affected the senses, then other people  than the target would be influenced by illusions.



Except that won't work against psyhics.



> It has to convince the mind that the input its recieving is correct.



Which won't work against Vader.



> Midichlorians are generated through the force?
> I always assumed they were living organelles that, through a symbiotic relationship with their host, allowed them access to the force.



Nope.



> *Midi-chlorians* were intelligent microscopic life forms that lived symbiotically inside the cells of all living things. When present in sufficient numbers, they could allow their symbiont to detect the pervasive energy field known as . "



Retconned.



> Thats my understanding of them, from what I can tell, they're present at birth, or not as the case may be, and access to the force is dependant on them.



No it isn't.



> And yes, At your first statement, thats my opinion exactly. They're force users, not telepaths. They're force users that are able to in some cases, use Telepathic Abilities.



The Force grants specific abilities to psyhic powers: Telekensis, Telepathy, Precognition/Prescience, Clairvoyance, matter manipulation, illusions, and so on.


----------



## Ork (Nov 15, 2008)

TWF said:


> Except that won't work against psyhics.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, your argument is basically "No, No, No, No, I said No".
Please back it up.

As for the Midichlorians thing being retconned, can you show me new information? Cuz thats all i've been able to find and I'm curious.

Yes, the force grants a ton of powers, but when you get down to it. THE FORCE grants these powers. Making them FORCE users.
Anyway, no point in arguing how I phrase it, we both agree they have telepathic abilities.


----------



## Fang (Nov 15, 2008)

For one, I've already posted Starkiller/Galen Marek's feats with the Force, for two, I've posted excerpts of his battle with Vader. 

He's mindraped Telepaths and people  who are generally resistant to psyhics and hypnosis. He telepathically destroyed a member of Watoo's race, he controlled another Force User with little effort in Coruscant Nights.

He was capable of reading and stealing information from Luke's thoughts during RoTJ. As for your argument, a Telepath is still a psyhic, regardless of how they become one, they still are one.

Anyway, there was never evidence or information that suggests midicholorians create life or the Force, only that they can measure the affinity one has in the Force. And even that has been downplayed by Leland Chee in canon.


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## Ork (Nov 15, 2008)

TWF said:


> Anyway, there was never evidence or information that suggests midicholorians create life or the Force, only that they can measure the affinity one has in the Force. And even that has been downplayed by Leland Chee in canon.



I never said they created life, or the force, I said that people are either born with enough midichlorians to communicate with the force, or they arent.
And you said it was retconned.

I was under the impression that midchlorians were little force antenna, and if you had more, you could communicate with the force better, and ue it to your advantage.

And I stll disagree that just because you show mental abilities similar to telepaths, that means you're a telepath. If a man had a magic spoon that let him mindrape, would he be a telepath?
I personally believe that using the force and manipulating it in ways that influence the minds of others, doesnt mean that force users are telepaths.

But thats a personal opinion and doesnt bear arguing over.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2008)

Going by Absence's logic, Professor X isn't a telepath, since he gets his powers from his mutant X-gene


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## KazeYama (Nov 15, 2008)

But the X gene caused a mutation which gave him his power. A mutation in his BRAIN! 
According to Absence Professor X would be vulnerable to genjutsu since it effects the brain.


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## Ork (Nov 15, 2008)

What? I said that telepaths are invulnerable to Genjutsu? No. Thats TWF. Im arguing the opposite.


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## Fang (Nov 15, 2008)

Endless Mike said:


> Going by Absence's logic, Professor X isn't a telepath, since he gets his powers from his mutant X-gene



Pretty much that is his entire train of logic.



Absence said:


> What? I said that telepaths are invulnerable to Genjutsu? No. Thats TWF. Im arguing the opposite.



Except for the fact that non-telepaths and non-genjutsu using ninjas in Naruto have not been "mind-screwed" by genjutsus.

And the fact that Telepaths are not bound by five senses, and Vader even more so.


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## Ork (Nov 15, 2008)

TWF said:


> Pretty much that is his entire train of logic.


No, its not. Professor X is a Telepath. His Gene directly gives him Telepathy.
Midichlorians give access to the force, and the force can be manipulated to have mental effects.

Thats my entire train of logic. Why are doggedly arguing about my opinon on that? Leave it and get on with the argument already.


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## Fang (Nov 15, 2008)

How are illusions that only affect *specifically* the five senses in Naruto going to bother someone who only needs to use a person's thoughts against them to find out the real ninja using them?


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## Ork (Nov 15, 2008)

TWF said:


> How are illusions that only affect *specifically* the five senses in Naruto going to bother someone who only needs to use a person's thoughts against them to find out the real ninja using them?



This is what we disagree on. 


All sorts of Genjutsu directly affect the brain.



 *Name:* Suzu Senbon no Genkaku, スズ千本の幻覚, _literally_ "Illusion Bell Needles"
 *Type:* Unknown
 *Users:* 
 Kin Tsuchi can use this technique with her specially designed bells. By attaching the bells to senbon (throwing needles) and throwing them at her target, she can get them to dodge and subsequently ignore the bells. Additionally, the target may believe the bells are actually designed to lull them into a false sense of security. In actuality, she has strings attached to the bells, which allows her to ring them. The bells ring at a certain frequency, which directly affects the brain. This causes her target to see multiple copies of herself, making it impossible to tell the real one from the illusions. Additionally, the target loses their motor skills with continued exposure to the ringing.






Thats a D rank Genjutsu. Performed by a stupid cannon fodder genin.



Tsukuyomi warps your perception of time... You experience several days in a second or two.
Only in your mind would that be possible.
Unless darth vader is completely immune to Genjutsu, and there's no reason he would be. A genjutsu like this would kill him.

Sure he can mindfuck people... so what? if itachi hits him and he thinks several days have passed when its over... that means that he wont be reacting in real time in the real world.

Genjutsu can also hypnotise. Thats DIRECTLY affecting the mind.


----------



## Fang (Nov 15, 2008)

It's funny how Shikamaru didn't lose any control of his cognitive or motor skills when under that genjutsu and still managed to perform his ninjutsu while being influenced by it.

When has Tsukiyomi affected a psyhic/telepath again? You do realize Force Users can hypnotize and telepathically control people right?

You do realize that Vader can read Kin's mind and still has precognitive abilities letting him know what to do right?

You also happen to have evidence of Vader that he is going to do nothing while in a genjutsu? You realize he still has free control of his mind? I hope to god you realize how silly it is. I also hope you realize that Tsukiyomi works purely based off line of sight and has no evidence of getting through Vader's electronic filters and sensors built into his suit and helmet.


----------



## Ork (Nov 15, 2008)

TWF said:


> It's funny how Shikamaru didn't lose any control of his cognitive or motor skills when under that genjutsu and still managed to perform his ninjutsu while being influenced by it.
> 
> When has Tsukiyomi affected a psyhic/telepath again? You do realize Force Users can hypnotize and telepathically control people right?
> 
> ...



Thats one Genjutsu, and it states in the description that it doesnt affect motor skills.
Vader can predict attacks. Vader cannot predict and stop Ten thousand different attacks at the same time. He cannot predict ten thousand genjutsu or resist their effects, there are genjutsu that make you feel sick, there are Genjutsu that warp perceptions, there are genjutsu that Hypnotise, there are Genjutsu that put people to sleep.

Vader is a powerful being. I have no doubt he'd defeat any single Ninja. He isnt going to defeat over 10 thousand ability users that have all sorts of ridiculous powers.

I have no evidence that vader would do nothing under Genjutsu, but here's the thing, from what I can see, Tsukuyomi makes you experience days in seconds. All we can infer from that, is that it warps your perception of time. Its all well and good if you can mindfuck people. Not so good if it takes days.
Would Professor x Be able to use his telepathy to mindfuck people if he was puking his guts out on the floor and (to his perceptions) drowning, bleeding, paralysed, in pain, reliving all his worst moments and completely blind, as well as deaf?

Thats JUST genjutsu.
There's Still Ninjutsu.

And Unique abilities/Bloodline abilities.
The only person who's silly that I can see here is you.

This is not Vader vs a Naruto Ninja, or even Vader versus a Naruto village.

This is Vader versus every single Ninja in the Narutoverse.
He's completely and utterly fucked.


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## Fang (Nov 15, 2008)

Absence said:


> Thats one Genjutsu, and it states in the description that it doesnt affect motor skills.[/
> Vader can predict attacks. Vader cannot predict and stop Ten thousand different attacks at the same time. He cannot predict ten thousand genjutsu or resist their effects, there are genjutsu that make you feel sick, there are Genjutsu that warp perceptions, there are genjutsu that Hypnotise, there are Genjutsu that put people to sleep.



The only two genjutsus that put people to sleep is one that was showcased by Itachi hypnotizing a *cannon fodder* Chuunin guarding the Konohagakura Gate.

The other was Kabuto's Temple of Nirvana technique that only put to sleep a few Genins and a couple hundred normal human civilians during the Final Chuunin Exams at the stadium.

Secondly, further proof that the hypnosis would work against someone who is a psyhic?



> Vader is a powerful being. I have no doubt he'd defeat any single Ninja. He isnt going to defeat over 10 thousand ability users that have all sorts of ridiculous powers.



There aren't even a total of ten thousand ninjas in Naruto. Not too mention since the OP makes no mention of which or what version of Naruto we're using, it becomes defaulted to current Naruto.

Which means, not that it matters but...Deidara, Itachi, Orochimaru, Kakuzu, Sandaime, Jiraiya, Summoner Pain, Asura Pain, Zabuza, the majority of the Jinchurriki are dead.



> I have no evidence that vader would do nothing under Genjutsu, but here's the thing, from what I can see, Tsukuyomi makes you experience days in seconds. All we can infer from that, is that it warps your perception of time. Its all well and good if you can mindfuck people. Not so good if it takes days.



Kakashi resisted Itachi's Tsukiyomi through willpower. Kakashi who has no psyhic abilities or powers whatsoever. Kakashi who has no notable feats of particular willpower otherwise as well.

Vader had the strength of will to survive having all of his limbs removed and burned by lava's exothermal's heat. The same Vader whose mind which is not being affected by an illusionary technique which has showcased no mental control or the ability to stop Telepathy at all.

Tsukiyomi is going to get laughed off.



> Would Professor x Be able to use his telepathy to mindfuck people if he was puking his guts out on the floor and (to his perceptions) drowning, bleeding, paralysed, in pain, reliving all his worst moments and completely blind, as well as deaf?



You realize that a Telepath's mind is independent of the rest of his body and senses right?



> Thats JUST genjutsu.
> There's Still Ninjutsu.



Elemental ninjutsu aren't going to bother a guy who was tanking Telekentic attacks equivalent to explosions and getting slammed through levels of the Death Star with a fucking shield generator.

Suitons which best feats are stopping fireballs which their own best feats are concussive force propelling them through trees a few feet of stone?

Katons which don't hurt cannon fodder? Raitons that get absorbed by Vader's energy draining powers? Dotons?

Rasengan? Oh no.



> And Unique abilities/Bloodline abilities.
> The only person who's silly that I can see here is you.



Sharingan/MS isn't bothering Vader with its prediction or illusion techniques. Kimimaro's bones get lopped off by casual swipes from Vader's saber. Jyuuken isn't affecting a cybernetic entity or counter Vader's control of the Force.



> This is Vader versus every single Ninja in the Narutoverse.
> He's completely and utterly fucked.



This is Vader at his strongest vs a severaly handicapped *current* Naruto universe.


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## Ork (Nov 15, 2008)

TWF said:


> The only two genjutsus that put people to sleep is one that was showcased by Itachi hypnotizing a *cannon fodder* Chuunin guarding the Konohagakura Gate.
> 
> The other was Kabuto's Temple of Nirvana technique that only put to sleep a few Genins and a couple hundred normal human civilians during the Final Chuunin Exams at the stadium.
> 
> ...



I didn't say 10000 Ninja. I said 10000 Ability users.
There are more than just ninja in Narutoverse. And more than that, where's the proof there are less? Its a Continent of various territories each with towns of Ninja, and Missing Nin, and Hidden villages we havent seen.
Regardless of that, the burden of proof that Vader is Immune to Genjutsu is on you, you're the one that claimed it wouldn't affect him after I said it was a good way to kill him.

Kakashi didn't "resist" Tsukuyomi. He felt it. He was Tortured Horribly for Days and Days of relative time. What he resisted, was being killed or Driven mad by the torture.
And he clearly stated that his Sharingan helped him.
A telepaths mind? Or a Jedi's mind? Or a Sith for that matter. I have no doubt that extreme pain and disorientation negatively affects ability to use the force, at least in a Jedi, sith like that sort of thing.

Elemental Ninjutsu won't bother him huh? 
Force lightning KILLED him.
He DIED to lightning.
There's no way around that, he may show awesome feats of power, but being immune to elemental Ninjutsu? No. Resistant? Sure, able to block? Sure.
Immune? No fucking way.

Jyuuken? what the hell? 

Why isnt Sharingan bothering Vader?
Being able to predict anyones moves is akward. 
Regardless of all this, say he's immune to Genjutsu, for no reason stated, Say he's immune to Ninjutsu, becayse he tanked a big explosion in his own verse, completely bypassing the fact that elemental Ninjutsu don't always do direct damage, COMPLETELY INGORING that Ninja are strong enough to Destroy buildings with ONE PUNCH (Tsunade), ignoring that there are thousands of ninja, ignoring that Ninja have extremely disciplined minds and thats been shown to resist "mind tricks", Ignoring and bypassing the fact that Ninja have been shown to have incredible abilities such as COMPLETE imortality.

Can he keep track of all his enemies? Does his brain work fast enough to follow attack trajectories of Thousands of projectiles at once, can he do that while damaging their minds? Can he MOVE Fast enough, to win this?

If darth vader can block ten thousand projectiles at any time, each moving as fast as a superhumanly strong person can throw them, WHY, please tell me WHY he couldn't block and predict the movements of ONE MAN with a lightsabre?  Why he BOTHERED to have an army to fight the seperatists? If he can defeat 1000+ men on his own all at once, why the HELL he bothered with backup? Why Droideka's were difficult for him to handle?

No. this makes No sense. Your fanboyism has blinded you. 
I'm impartial in this because I despise naruto, and I hate vader.
I'd be much happier if they could kill each other off. But Vader isnt going to win this.

Goodnight.


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## Fang (Nov 15, 2008)

Your entire argument is rooted in no limits fallacies, red herrings and strawmans.

:snorlax:


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## BAD BD (Nov 16, 2008)

Absence said:


> I didn't say 10000 Ninja. I said 10000 Ability users.
> There are more than just ninja in Narutoverse. And more than that, where's the proof there are less? Its a Continent of various territories each with towns of Ninja, and Missing Nin, and Hidden villages we havent seen.
> Regardless of that, the burden of proof that Vader is Immune to Genjutsu is on you, you're the one that claimed it wouldn't affect him after I said it was a good way to kill him.
> 
> ...




Because EU directly contradicts the movies.


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## Fang (Nov 16, 2008)

Try again, Bad BD.


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## BAD BD (Nov 16, 2008)

Then explain why their precog didn't foresee the death star getting destroyed or why vader didn't just solo the rebels.


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## Reddan (Nov 16, 2008)

Lightning is greater than Vader since Lucas has said force lightning would short circuit his suit. Yoda, Mace two jedi more powerful than Vader, along with hundreds of jedi failed to take down 10,000 droids. Infact they were clearly out matched and had to bring along thousands of clones. Yet a weaker Vader, with a serious weakness to lightning can take down millions of ninjas? Dont make me laugh.


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## skiboydoggy (Nov 16, 2008)

arednad said:


> Lightning is greater than Vader since Lucas has said force lightning would short circuit his suit. Yoda, *Mace* two jedi more powerful than Vader, along with hundreds of jedi *failed to take down 10,000 droids.* Infact they were clearly out matched and had to bring along thousands of clones. Yet a weaker Vader, with a serious weakness to lightning can take down millions of ninjas? Dont make me laugh.



ORLY?

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSrH1b-nQ28[/YOUTUBE]


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## Reddan (Nov 16, 2008)

Well when I saw AOTC it did not look like Mace was doing to well when he was surrounded backed into a corner and Dooku was telling him he was going to die. Nor did the jedi masters in ROTS look great when they got shot by all the clones. So much for their great pre recognition only Yoda managed to realise, what was going on.


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## BAD BD (Nov 16, 2008)

skiboydoggy said:


> ORLY?
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSrH1b-nQ28[/YOUTUBE]



Direct contradiction.

[YOUTUBE]4ebnBZIpESY[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]TmPSHR708b8[/YOUTUBE]


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## Fang (Nov 16, 2008)

Dark side's shroud of darkness during the Clone Wars already explained why the Jedi's clairvoyant abilities and Precognition was failing during AToC and RoTS.

Try again, Bad BD.


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## BAD BD (Nov 16, 2008)

TWF said:


> Dark side's shroud of darkness during the Clone Wars already explained why the Jedi's clairvoyant abilities and Precognition was failing during AToC and RoTS.
> 
> Try again, Bad BD.



So then why is Mace able to solo and army in the cartoon and struggle against a smaller group with more backup in the movie? Both happen during the clone wars.

Was Luke able to jam Sidious' and Vader's clairvoyant abilities and precognition then?


And BTW I am using movie Vader. He loses. 

Any other Vader stomps with his overpowered abilities.


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## Fang (Nov 16, 2008)

BAD BD said:


> So then why is Mace able to solo and army in the cartoon and struggle against a smaller group with more backup in the movie? Both happen during the clone wars.



There is no contradiction other then the one your inventing in your mind fictiously.

Last I checked, Clone Wars animated series is still canon. Last I checked, the dark side clouding those Jedi's abilities was the reason why Dooku lured Windu and his strike team to Genosis as well.



> Was Luke able to jam Sidious' and Vader's clairvoyant abilities and precognition then?



Nice red herring that has absolutely nothing to do with this.


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## BAD BD (Nov 16, 2008)

TWF said:


> There is no contradiction other then the one your inventing in your mind fictiously.
> 
> Last I checked, Clone Wars animated series is still canon. Last I checked, the dark side clouding those Jedi's abilities was the reason why Dooku lured Windu and his strike team to Genosis as well.



So their combat abilities are shitty when they are surprised?




> Nice red herring that has absolutely nothing to do with this.





			
				BAD BD said:
			
		

> Then explain why their precog didn't foresee the death star getting destroyed or why vader didn't just solo the rebels.



It has to do with movie vader's precog.


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## Fang (Nov 16, 2008)

BAD BD said:


> So their combat abilities are shitty when they are surprised?



Their ability to use the Force is bad when someone else is clouding and stopping them from using their full abilities.



> It has to do with movie vader's precog.



Which would have a tangent in the thread's context if it weren't for the fact that we aren't limiting Vader to a single canon like the films. 

So its still off topic.


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## BAD BD (Nov 16, 2008)

> Their ability to use the Force is bad when someone else is clouding and stopping them from using their full abilities.



I thought only their precog was limited and there offensive abilities weren't. 




battlerek said:


> How does this go? You may use *any* medium that Vader has appeared in.



Not every.


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## Fang (Nov 16, 2008)

BAD BD said:


> I thought only their precog was limited and there offensive abilities weren't.



Precognition/Prescience, Telepathy, Clairvoyance are limited by the shroud of darkness from the Sith. Which means their ability to use the light side of the Force is also harder to use.



> Not every.



Aruging semantics. :snorlax:

OP is stating we aren't limited by the film incarnation of Vader. Thus the other canons in EU is allowed as well unless specifically stated otherwise.

Wrong again.


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## Badalight (Nov 16, 2008)

Vader taking them 1 on 1 would obviously win... but you have to realize there are millions of ninja's attacking him at ONCE.

How will he dodge every single attack? I know he's got some good counters and all that, but he's not going to be able to defend against everything.

I'm not saying these will work, but I'm curious.

How will Darth Vader be able to defend against:

1. Kakashi's Dimension Warp from his MS

2. Amatseru

3. The  Susano'o Sword

4. Yondaime's or Sandaime's Death God Sealing Jutsu

5. Can DV stop genjutsu?

6. What if kisame turns the battlefield into an ocean? I'd like to see Darth Vader do anything when he's drowning, especialyl since he's pretty much a robot. 

7. Shikamaru's Shadow Mimic or His Shadw Choke to counter Vaders force Choke.

8. Hidan's invincibility, whatever he does to Hidan he does to himself...

9. Sasori's Iron Sand

10.Ino's mind control 

11. Soul Eater Pain



Plus, how will he be able to kill Oro? Orochimaru has constantly shown being able to come back after being split in halg, a light saber won't do anything to him. Not saying Oro could hurt Darth Vader, but he wouldn't die from him either.

Characters that he can't really do anything to:

1. Hidan - He's invincible, and when he's in his little circle anything that he gets hurt by would hurt Vader, and it's not like Vader knows of this ability, so he'd slice hidans arms off or something and bam... 1 armed Vader.

2. Kakuzu - Can't be hurt by psyichal attacks, only takes a second to preform

3. Oro - Regenerates

Not trying to be a Naruto fanboy or anything, I just want to know what Darth Vader will do in those situations, if he can't sotp them all then I think the narutoverse could take this granted they all attack at once.


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## BAD BD (Nov 16, 2008)

TWF said:


> Precognition/Prescience, Telepathy, Clairvoyance are limited by the shroud of darkness from the Sith. Which means their ability to use the light side of the Force is also harder to use.



It made it so much harder that the jedi perform slightly better than normal humans with guns? That doesn't make sense.

Isn't Mace Windu supposed to have  FTL combat speed?
In the movie he was fighting slightly above Jango Fetts level.



> Aruging semantics. :snorlax:
> 
> OP is stating we aren't limited by the film incarnation of Vader. Thus the other canons in EU is allowed as well unless specifically stated otherwise.
> 
> Wrong again.




Again. He said any medium. Not every medium. :slaking:

Do you want to consider his poor showings in the soul caliber universe as part of his EU feats?


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## Fang (Nov 16, 2008)

Badalight said:


> Vader taking them 1 on 1 would obviously win... but you have to realize there are millions of ninja's attacking him at ONCE.



There aren't even thousands of ninjas in the Narutoverse currently. And this is current Naruto.



> How will Darth Vader be able to defend against:
> 
> 1. Kakashi's Dimension Warp from his MS



Wouldn't touch him and Kakashi would have his neck snapped before he could fire a synapse to process a thought of using his Mangekyou Sharingan's Kamui.



> 2. Amatseru



Amataresu would be stopped by a barrier of the Force to protect Vader. Its weak sauce in fiction as an attack.



> 3. The  Susano'o Sword



No limits fallacy. Susanoo's spirit sword first has to physically cut its victim, two: how is this attack going to work against an incredibly powerful Telepathy like Vader when it tries to hypnotize him?



> 4. Yondaime's or Sandaime's Death God Sealing Jutsu



Suicide techniques don't work well against Vader. Not that they would ever get the chance to use it nor does it matter when this is current Naruto so Sandaime and Yondaime are non-factors.



> 5. Can DV stop genjutsu?



Easily. He's a powerful precognitive Telepath with insane Telekentic powers.



> 6. What if kisame turns the battlefield into an ocean? I'd like to see Darth Vader do anything when he's drowning, especialyl since he's pretty much a robot.



Or Vader just Telepathically destroys Kisame before he does anything.



> 7. Shikamaru's Shadow Mimic or His Shadw Choke to counter Vaders force Choke.



Considering someone as physically weak as Tayuya was easily resisting Shikamaru's Kage Mange techniques, I don't think so. Especially since the Force is truly intangible and etheral.



> 8. Hidan's invincibility, whatever he does to Hidan he does to himself...



Hidan is currently dead.



> 9. Sasori's Iron Sand



Negated by Vader's Telekensis, not that it matters again once more since Sasori and Sandaime Kazekage are dead characters currently in current Naruto.



> 10.Ino's mind control



Same Ino who couldn't even mind control Sakura is going to telepathically attack Darth Vader?

Oh god this is awesome.



> 11. Soul Eater Pain



Except that all this Path of Pain did was lobotomize a cannon fodder character.

Not working against Vader.



> Plus, how will he be able to kill Oro? Orochimaru has constantly shown being able to come back after being split in halg, a light saber won't do anything to him. Not saying Oro could hurt Darth Vader, but he wouldn't die from him either.



Hypnosis and low level genjutsu work well against Orochimaru, Telepathy from a high tier Telepath like Vader will work as well. Not that it matters since Orochimaru is currently sealed in an eternal genjutsu.



> Characters that he can't really do anything to:
> 
> 1. Hidan - He's invincible, and when he's in his little circle anything that he gets hurt by would hurt Vader, and it's not like Vader knows of this ability, so he'd slice hidans arms off or something and bam... 1 armed Vader.



Except that Hidan has to spill and taste Vader's blood first, and Hidan doesn't have close to the physical strength to harm Vader to begin with. And this again is a moot point as Hidan is currently not in current Naruto as he's bured under tons of rubble and blasted to pieces.



> 2. Kakuzu - Can't be hurt by psyichal attacks, only takes a second to preform



No limits fallacy again.

Except that Kakuzu is currently dead and was harmed by physical attack like Naruto's Fuuton Rasengan Shuriken. As well as Kakashi's Raikiri.



> 3. Oro - Regenerates
> 
> Not trying to be a Naruto fanboy or anything, I just want to know what Darth Vader will do in those situations, if he can't sotp them all then I think the narutoverse could take this granted they all attack at once.



Except the majority of character's you referenced are dead and the Force gives Vader a plethora of means to attack and kill his opponents.


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## Fang (Nov 16, 2008)

BAD BD said:


> It made it so much harder that the jedi perform slightly better than normal humans with guns? That doesn't make sense.



Even in the films the Jedi and Sith have showcased supersonic/hypersonic reflexes.



> Isn't Mace Windu supposed to have  FTL combat speed?
> In the movie he was fighting slightly above Jango Fetts level.



Its called suspension of disbelief. They still showcased the ability to react to supersonic projectiles at near point blank, show superhuman reflexes and engage in combat that normal beings could never follow.




> Again. He said any medium. Not every medium. :slaking



Wrong again, the OP makes obvious that any of the canon that is canon is allowed. Try again.



> Do you want to consider his poor showings in the soul caliber universe as part of his EU feats?



Non canon events are not allowed. Soul Calibur Vader, Yoda, Starkiller are non-canon in EU.


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## BAD BD (Nov 16, 2008)

The OP went on to ask about Soul Caliber Vader. It is allowed.


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## skiboydoggy (Nov 16, 2008)

Soul Calibur Vader stomped Algol, so what low-end showings are we talking about again?


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## Fang (Nov 16, 2008)

BAD BD said:


> The OP went on to ask about Soul Caliber Vader. It is allowed.



The OP could bring up anime Dragon Ball's feats as well, doesn't change the fact its not canon.



battlerek said:


> How strong do you think Soul Calibur Darth Vader was? If I remember correctly, at the end of his storyline he acquired both Soul Edge and Soul Calibur. With those weapons, how fast do you think Vader can smash Narutoverse?



Also nice attempt at making things up Bad BD.


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## Badalight (Nov 16, 2008)

Responding to some of your points:

1. Who said dead characters don't count? It just said Narutoverse, which measn everything, I didn't ever read it saying the CURRENT Nartuoverse, I just assumed I could use any character from any time period, which would include the diseased.

2. Saying Vader would just kill Kisama before he can doesn' answer my question, I said how would he defend against it. Besides, Kisama isn't slow with his seals, and with the other Naruto characters how would Vader know to go after Kisame before fighting the other nin? Unless Vader can get to and kill kisame in the few seconds i takes to preform the jutsu, I'd say your point is moot.

3. Same as above ^ except it takes a bit of prep time, how would Vader know to go after Kakashi?

4. Can you go into detail of how the Death God Jutsu's wouldn't work? You never explained.

5. Susano'o seals away anything it touches, I don't remember it having to "cut" it first.


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## BAD BD (Nov 16, 2008)

TWF said:


> The OP could bring up anime Dragon Ball's feats as well, doesn't change the fact its not canon.



When the OP states any medium is usable any medium is usable in his thread.


What is made up about me stating he asked about soul caliber vader?



> Soul Calibur Vader stomped Algol, so what low-end showings are we talking about again?



He didn't force crush his head.


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## C-Moon (Nov 16, 2008)

Badalight said:


> 5. Susano'o seals away anything it touches, I don't remember it having to "cut" it first.



Still a No Limits.


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## Ork (Nov 16, 2008)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> Still a No Limits.



So is vader being immune to ALL elemental Ninjutsu because he survived a force induced explosion in his own verse.


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## Fang (Nov 16, 2008)

No one said he's immune to him, I said he's more durable then attacks that can barely destroy a few feet of stone and trees.


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## Banhammer (Nov 16, 2008)

why is this rape is a stick thread thirteen pages long?  The only threat to Vader is the Death God, and he could easly rid himself of that by force snaping the sumoners neck.


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## mykel23 (Nov 16, 2008)

Darth Vader mind rapes everyone in the Narutoverse. Noone can fight him u[ close, a lightsaber[that can cut pretty much anything] made a shallow cut on his armor, how do you think Hidan is gonna draw his blood? Everyone gets their necks snapped, or crushed. Maybe Darth Vader might even have to use his lightsaber for this one, but I highly doubt it.


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## Badalight (Nov 16, 2008)

People forget this is the entire narutoverse, how is he going to stop a single person in time? He's going to have to fight through everyone else.

What if Kisame stood incredibly far away, behind every other character.

It would take awhole 2 seconds to fill the entire arena with water.

i don't think Darth Vader can kill every single character and get to Kisame before 2 seconds is up.


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## Fang (Nov 16, 2008)

Because the Narutoverse is pathetically weak?

The rules are since the OP makes no mention of which time frame of the Narutoverse, the assumpation is this is against current Naruto.

Also a generic Force Wave would pulverize entire clusters of ninjas on Vader's part. And if you think water will bother Vader, think again.


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## mykel23 (Nov 16, 2008)

Badalight said:


> People forget this is the entire narutoverse, how is he going to stop a single person in time? He's going to have to fight through everyone else.
> 
> What if Kisame stood incredibly far away, behind every other character.
> 
> ...



Yeah, 'What if'. What if the Death Star came and blew them up? What if Luke goes on the Dark Side and helps Vader. Stop with the What-if's! 

Vader would make it sound as if a drumline's playing in the fight, bones breaking, neck's snapping, spine's snapping, and they'd be crushed.


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## C-Moon (Nov 16, 2008)

Absence said:


> So is vader being immune to ALL elemental Ninjutsu because he survived a force induced explosion in his own verse.



I was talking about his Susano-o comment being a No Limits.

derp derp


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## Fang (Nov 16, 2008)

Also, Susanoo was showcased during the Itachi and Sasuke fight of physically cutting Orochimaru first before he got sealed by it's sword in that genjutsu.


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## KazeYama (Nov 16, 2008)

Why hasn't a general consensus or OBD rule been established about what X character vs. Y universe matches entail? 

Some people are interpreting it as every person in the universe dead, alive, past, present, and in general all in the same place at the same time attacking Vader at once. Some people are interpreting it as whether Vader can beat everyone in the verse in general like if he were teleported to a random spot and had to fight them as they showed up taking into consideration the fact that due to the geography in Naruto not everyone would be there at once and not everyone appears at once. 

This issue seems to arise in nearly every thread of this nature and there should be a rule established about how these type of fights are to take place. I usually take it as drop X character in Y verse at a certain location and have them fight everyone in the verse but the verse remains somewhat in character to the point where you won't have thousands of people with no affiliation attacking the same person for no reason. 

Vader is massively stronger than anyone in the narutoverse. Vader could beat all of the top tiers even if they were in groups. However only characters that have feats and only characters that have been shown should be used in these arguments. Arguments such as 10,000 filler shinobi with explosive tags strapped to their backs would beat Vader are stupid because only a few dozen ninja at best have actually been seen fighting and playing the numbers game to refute the fact that Vader is stronger than everyone isn't a very good argument.


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## C-Moon (Nov 16, 2008)

^Could make Character A Vs. Universe B battles that much easier.


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## Banhammer (Nov 16, 2008)

Badalight said:


> People forget this is the entire narutoverse, how is he going to stop a single person in time? He's going to have to fight through everyone else.
> 
> What if Kisame stood incredibly far away, behind every other character.
> 
> ...



Tk fuckery.

Or just Tk everyone away and tk his lightsaber at pretty much lspeed.
Less than two seconds.


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## Ork (Nov 16, 2008)

TWF said:


> No one said he's immune to him, I said he's more durable then attacks that can barely destroy a few feet of stone and trees.



Luciano Pavorotti.

What Rasengan and Gokakuu no Jutsu are capable of.
Gokaku can create large explosions, and its a C-Rank, making it a jutsu usable by all chunnin+ and most Genin if they were taught it.


Agility feats from Chuunin+ are easily comparable to their Jedi counterparts.
Speed too.
So they don't have precognition? Or Mindfucking? Or Lightsabres?
They have Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Their own weapons.

Kyuubi alone would rape DV.
Lets not even talk about the Eight tails and any other Jinchuuriki still alive.

LOL at banhammer. 
DV Couldn't kill a thousand Stormtroopers in 2 seconds. Let alone Ninja. Listen to yourself.
Perhaps if he was smart with his TK and they were on a planet where he could drop a ship on them or something. And they were grouped together. And standing still.
And stupid, Blind, and Deaf.


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## C-Moon (Nov 16, 2008)

It's too bad there are only 2 Jin still alive.


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## Fang (Nov 16, 2008)

Its too bad as well that Vader's telekentic attacks are equivalent to Starkiller's casual use of the Force as building busting blasts and that none of the ninja have remotely similar speed, reflexes or durability to last against any major Force User.


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## Banhammer (Nov 17, 2008)

TWF said:


> Its too bad as well that Vader's telekentic attacks are equivalent to Starkiller's casual use of the Force as building busting blasts and that none of the ninja have remotely similar speed, reflexes or durability to last against any major Force User.



that.


And I meant it would take less than two saeconds to send the lightsaber flying around and kill kisame.


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## Estrecca (Nov 17, 2008)

TWF said:


> Its too bad as well that Vader's telekentic attacks are equivalent to Starkiller's casual use of the Force as building busting blasts and that *none of the ninja have remotely similar speed, reflexes or durability to last against any major Force User*.



Assorted wank aside, this is wrong in so many levels that I couldn't help myself. Darth Bane is, by any standard you care to use,  a "major Force User" and Akatsuki (and several individual members thereof) would make mincemeat out of him at the peak of his powers and durability.


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## Ork (Nov 17, 2008)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> I was talking about his Susano-o comment being a No Limits.
> 
> derp derp



And I was talking about TWF's comments from earilier. 
Duh.


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## Fang (Nov 17, 2008)

Estrecca said:


> Assorted wank aside, this is wrong in so many levels that I couldn't help myself. Darth Bane is, by any standard you care to use,  a "major Force User" and Akatsuki (and several individual members thereof) would make mincemeat out of him at the peak of his powers and durability.



Fact: They are confirmed to be slower then cross-bow bolts.
Fact: They have retardly low levels of durability and strength.
Fact: Bane destroying 25+ meters of buildings with Force Waves is more impressive then 90% of the physical feats in Naruto.

The best of the ninja don't even break the sound barrier, are peak human in durability (Sasuke, Itachi, Pain, Jiraiya), and have low levels of superhuman strength and speed.

Your badly over-rating the ninja. Also, low level Force Users from Coruscant Nights have shot blaster bolts out of the air.

So not really. Especially when your blatantly over-rating them.


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## Gunners (Nov 17, 2008)

Darth Vader gets merked 

*Throws meat to the horde of nerds*


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## Fang (Nov 17, 2008)

:snorlax: to that post.


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## Banhammer (Nov 17, 2008)

Well, the only person who could be remotely a threat, is the Sandaime Kazekage. I assume Narutoverse includes the deciesed. Though he has never used his magnetic powers outside of his iron sand, I guess on Vader they would be kinda disadvatageous.
Though I see him tk-ing his way to victory.


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## Onomatopoeia (Nov 17, 2008)

> Lets not even talk about the Eight tails and any other Jinchuuriki still alive.



Actually, Killer Bee and Naruto seem to have the market cornered on "Jinchuuriki that are still alive". 

Not counting Gaara, I suppose.....


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## Fang (Nov 17, 2008)

Gaara isn't a Jinchurriki, he doesn't have a Bijuu anymore.


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## skiboydoggy (Nov 17, 2008)

I was wondering, if Vader, by some freak accident, gets Death God'd and sealed into some random person's body, couldn't he just Force Dominate the bugger and get a fresh, new, healthy body and rape even harder? Especially since the only person even remotely likely to Death God Vader is Yondaime?


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## Fang (Nov 17, 2008)

Both Yondaime and Sandaime have the technique, but no, only people capable of retaining their souls after death are like Exar Kun, Palpatine, Luke, and few others.

Not that it will happen with both Yondaime and Sandaime being dead in current Naruto.


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## skiboydoggy (Nov 17, 2008)

Anakin became a Ghost.


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## Fang (Nov 17, 2008)

And then went to the netherworld of the Force.


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## strongarm85 (Nov 17, 2008)

Pretty much everything that dies and Star Wars can become a Ghost for a little while. Most of the time they just pass right on. Thanks to Qui-gon, Obi-Wan and Yoda where able to stick around longer. The ability to have your spirit live on after you've died is a force ability that has been forgotten and remastered time and again threw the ages, often disapearing for centuries at a time, mostly because Jedi tend to want to pass on after they've completed their business, and also because there is no way to tell if the mastered the technique properly until you actually die. Qui-gon didn't master it until after he was dead.

The only other way to do it is the same way that the Sith have, which usually consists of binding one's Force Spirit soul to a location or an object until such time as you can be revived.

In any case, Vader didn't stick around, and I doubt he would have even if he could.


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## Steven Pinhead (Nov 18, 2008)

I thought of a version of Vader that Narutoverse might be able to beat:

Robot Chicken Vader.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Nov 18, 2008)

"Low-level strength" lol
Tsunade's ability to make giant craters with one punch and knock Gamabunta's knife into the air is more impressive than most any Jedi or Sith strength feats.

Also, what's this donkey shit about ninjas being slower than crossbow bolts?


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