# Current Zoro vs Mihawk



## Yuki (Jun 23, 2017)

In this match up, any attack Zoro actually lands on Mihawk is an auto win. Meanwhile, Mihawk has to win legit.

Has Zoro advanced enough to actually land a hit on Mihawk? 

Both fighters are going 100%.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 23, 2017)

I highly doubt it, but Mihawk also can't fodderize Zoro like he could before the timeskip. Zoro is still portrayed under top-tier characters by a good amount, as shown in his confrontation with Fujitora.

Zoro might barely push Mihawk to mid-diff, but he won't be landing anything.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## trance (Jun 23, 2017)

Zolo gets low diff'd


----------



## Furinji Saiga (Jun 23, 2017)

low difficulty

Zoro can be proud he is no longer fodder in front of Mihawk.


----------



## Yuki (Jun 23, 2017)

And to think some people legit think Zoro is FM level.


----------



## Sherlōck (Jun 23, 2017)

Zoro probably can land a hit on Mihawk just like Luffy landed one on Fujitora.

How much it will damage Mihawk is another matter.

Reactions: Dislike 1


----------



## Yuki (Jun 23, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> Zoro probably can land a hit on Mihawk just like Luffy landed one on Fujitora.
> 
> How much it will damage Mihawk is another matter.



Fugi was not really trying.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Sherlōck (Jun 23, 2017)

Yuki said:


> Fugi was not really trying.



I know. Nonetheless .....


----------



## Mr. Good vibes (Jun 23, 2017)

Preforms as good as Vista would.


----------



## trance (Jun 23, 2017)

Furinji Saiga said:


> Zoro can be proud he is no longer fodder in front of Mihawk.



considering he just _barely _escapes being utterly crushed by Mihawk, idk how proud he can be

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Furinji Saiga (Jun 23, 2017)

Kyouko said:


> considering he just _barely _escapes being utterly crushed by Mihawk, idk how proud he can be



Zoro is still a frog, but he is a frog that is proud to say he can get out of the well.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## trance (Jun 23, 2017)

Furinji Saiga said:


> Zoro is still a frog, but he is a frog that is proud to say he can get out of the well.


 
ignoring the infamous wank from certain ppl, this is actually an impressive feat for Zoro considering the ridiculous intensity of Fujitora's gravity even with casual displays

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jun 23, 2017)

Kyouko said:


> ignoring the infamous wank from certain ppl, this is actually an impressive feat for Zoro considering the ridiculous intensity of Fujitora's gravity even with casual displays


 it gets downplayed more than anything


----------



## Yuki (Jun 23, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> it gets downplayed more than anything



Getting out of a non serious admirals none named attack is a great feat to you?

Great, then why is Ace's feat of clashing evenly with an at war serious admirals named attack no big deal for you then? Why is Zoro > Ace?

Clue, you like Zoro, but don't like Ace.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jun 23, 2017)

Yuki said:


> Getting out of a non serious admirals none named attack is a great feat to you?
> 
> Great, then why is Ace's feat of clashing evenly with an at war serious admirals named attack no big deal for you then? Why is Zoro > Ace?
> 
> Clue, you like Zoro, but don't like Ace.


 don't want to debate you again. It's pointless anyway because my powerscale is: 

current Zoro > Ace > Dressrosa Zoro

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 23, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> don't want to debate you again. It's pointless anyway because my powerscale is:
> 
> current Zoro > Ace > Dressrosa Zoro



How has Zoro gotten stronger since Dressrosa? Pica wasn't enough to test his abilities and make him work for a win. As far as we know, he hasn't gained any new ability or made progress after Dressrosa. We don't know whether or not he is fighting against powerful opponents right now. He's likely just as strong and hasn't shown all of his abilities yet.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jun 23, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> How has Zoro gotten stronger since Dressrosa? Pica wasn't enough to test his abilities and make him work for a win. As far as we know, he hasn't gained any new ability or made progress after Dressrosa. We don't know whether or not he is fighting against powerful opponents right now. He's likely just as strong and hasn't shown all of his abilities yet.


 because the strawhats get stronger even from the smallest things


----------



## Yuki (Jun 23, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> don't want to debate you again. It's pointless anyway because my powerscale is:
> 
> current Zoro > Ace > Dressrosa Zoro



Yet you have no reasoning for it.

Once again, you think that getting out of a none serious admirals none named attack is impressive for Zoro. Enough to hype him up over... 

Yet, Ace clashing evenly with a VERY serious DURING WAR Admiral, a STRONGER admiral at that, is just meh to you... That makes... legit... zero sense.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 23, 2017)

100 Percent you say? 

Zoro gets cut in half.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Gohara (Jun 24, 2017)

Zoro wins in my opinion as I think that he can give Mihawk at least low to mid difficulty.


----------



## Furinji Saiga (Jun 24, 2017)

Gohara said:


> Zoro wins in my opinion as I think that he can give Mihawk at least low to mid difficulty.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jun 24, 2017)

Yuki said:


> Yet you have no reasoning for it.
> 
> Once again, you think that getting out of a none serious admirals none named attack is impressive for Zoro. Enough to hype him up over...
> 
> Yet, Ace clashing evenly with a VERY serious DURING WAR Admiral, a STRONGER admiral at that, is just meh to you... That makes... legit... zero sense.


 you're blinded by anger bruh


----------



## Yuki (Jun 24, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> you're blinded by anger bruh



No, the only thing i'm blinded by is misunderstanding. Of how favoritism can effect someones views THIS much.

My fav characters are Shanks and Marco. Do you ever see me hyping either of those two above the likes of anyone else? It's true that i have hope that current Shanks is considered the WSM. But i don't think it's likely because of Mihawk and the WSS thing. I think him and Mihawk are around the same level and a flashback to a little spar of theirs is one of the things i want to see the most.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jun 24, 2017)

Yuki said:


> No, the only thing i'm blinded by is misunderstanding. Of how favoritism can effect someones views THIS much.
> 
> My fav characters are Shanks and Marco. Do you ever see me hyping either of those two above the likes of anyone else? It's true that i have hope that current Shanks is considered the WSM. But i don't think it's likely because of Mihawk and the WSS thing. I think him and Mihawk are around the same level and a flashback to a little spar of theirs is one of the things i want to see the most.


 I think Shanks is cooler than Mihawk. I have Mihawk > Shanks

Sonic is my favorite OPM character by far. I have Fang, WDM, Darkshine, Flash, Tastsumaki, and Metal Bat all > Sonic

I even put Suiryu > Sonic and he's never beat a dragon tier. 
Suiryu is dope though so i guess that isn't a good example. 

I think Sanji is a good character but i can't see him even giving a good fight to anyone on Luffy/Zoro/Law's tier


----------



## Yuki (Jun 24, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> I think Shanks is cooler than Mihawk. I have Mihawk > Shanks
> 
> Sonic is my favorite OPM character by far. I have Fang, WDM, Darkshine, Flash, Tastsumaki, and Metal Bat all > Sonic
> 
> ...



And you don't put Zoro above Luffy or anyone clearly above him either. >_>

Just coz you are not a complete retard does not mean you are not a Zoro wanker. Any SN other than Luffy, or anyone around the same level as the SN... do you think Zoro would lose to any of them more often than not? Or is Zoro the second strongest on that level after Luffy?


----------



## TheWiggian (Jun 24, 2017)

Zoro (at 100%) will perform just as Vista did against the WSS, he won't land a hit thought. So after Mihawk becomes serious it will be quickly over.

And yes Zoro > Ace.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## Yuki (Jun 24, 2017)

TheWiggian said:


> Zoro (at 100%) will perform just as Vista did against the WSS, he won't land a hit thought. So after Mihawk becomes serious it will be quickly over.
> 
> And yes Zoro > Ace.



Vista got in a hit. At least that's what the translation i read says.

"We both have a point to our name."


----------



## TheWiggian (Jun 24, 2017)

Yuki said:


> Vista got in a hit. At least that's what the translation i read says.
> 
> "We both have a point to our name."



If i remember correctly Mihawk was 1 of the 3 people that came out of the war unscathed. 

So no, physically speaking he never was shown to been hurt or taking an L in a fight.


----------



## Yuki (Jun 24, 2017)

TheWiggian said:


> If i remember correctly Mihawk was 1 of the 3 people that came out of the war unscathed.
> 
> So no, physically speaking he never was shown to been hurt or taking an L in a fight.



Vista was considered another. Yet Vista said they both have a point. That may not mean they landed a hit this is true. But it does mean they both got the better of the other at least once each.


----------



## TheWiggian (Jun 24, 2017)

Yuki said:


> Vista got in a hit. At least that's what the translation i read says.
> 
> "We both have a point to our name."



The only ones that who left completely unscathed were just Kizaru, Mihawk and Boa.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jun 24, 2017)

Yuki said:


> And you don't put Zoro above Luffy or anyone clearly above him either. >_>
> 
> Just coz you are not a complete retard does not mean you are not a Zoro wanker. Any SN other than Luffy, or anyone around the same level as the SN... do you think Zoro would lose to any of them more often than not? Or is Zoro the second strongest on that level after Luffy?


 Luffy and Zoro are tied for strongest sn. They were some of the weakest pre skip though


----------



## MYJC (Jun 24, 2017)

Uh, yeah? This isn't pre-timeskip and the next time we see Zoro he'll be fighting commander level opponents.

Going all out Zoro is probably comparable to Vista and should be able to give Mihawk mid-diff. Dunno why people think the Straw Hats are still East Blue level.


----------



## Magnet40 (Jun 24, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> it gets downplayed more than anything



Of course it gets downplayed, you think Zoro can beat his Captain and Law. Probably think he can beat Eustass and Eustass can literally control Zoro's weapons.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jun 24, 2017)

Magnet40 said:


> Of course it gets downplayed, you think Zoro can beat his Captain and Law. Probably think he can beat Eustass and Eustass can literally control Zoro's weapons.


 all strawman. Just ask me my views before assuming everything 

My views:

Luffy vs Zoro is a tie
Law vs Zoro is a Zoro win
Kid vs Zoro is a Kid win
Kid vs Luffy is a Luffy win btw


----------



## Mr. Good vibes (Jun 24, 2017)

Current Zoro should be at least around the level that Vista is. It makes literally zero sense if the man Mihawk spent 2 years training couldn't at least give him a decent causal spar now of course a serious Mihawk would wipe the floor with Zoro, but at this point Zoro should be capable of replicating that little spar that Mihawk had with Vista.


----------



## Magnet40 (Jun 24, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> all strawman. Just ask me my views before assuming everything
> 
> My views:
> 
> ...



Why does Zoro work for a he's equal too? Is Rayleigh as strong as Roger?
Why did Luffy fight Lucci a Stronger Opponent an Zoro handle the weaker one an after Luffy already had fought some one minutes ago.
Why is Zoro's bounty so much lower?.

You're so lost. Im glad you guys aren't the majority

Kid and Luffy are equal just like Law and Luffy


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jun 24, 2017)

Magnet40 said:


> Why does Zoro work for a he's equal too? Is Rayleigh as strong as Roger?
> Why did Luffy fight Lucci a Stronger Opponent an Zoro handle the weaker one?
> 
> You're so lost. Im glad you guys aren't the majority
> ...



>Why does Zoro work for a he's equal too?

No idea what that is supposed to mean. If you're asking why Kid beats Zoro but loses to Luffy yet Luffy = Zoro, then it's because of matchups.

>Is Rayleigh as strong as Roger?

Probably not but the comparison is irrelevant unless Luffy and Zoro are going to 100% parallel the old gen. No reason to believe that. They already have some differences.

>Why did Luffy fight Lucci a Stronger Opponent an Zoro handle the weaker one?

I addressed this in the thriller bark Zoro vs Lucci thread. I should probably have it as a blog post at some point.


----------



## Magnet40 (Jun 24, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> >Why does Zoro work for a he's equal too?
> 
> No idea what that is supposed to mean. If you're asking why Kid beats Zoro but loses to Luffy yet Luffy = Zoro, then it's because of matchups.
> 
> ...



Im asking why Does Zoro for work his "equal" that being Monkey.D Luffy

An please find it. I wanna see that shit


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jun 24, 2017)

Magnet40 said:


> Im asking why Does Zoro for work his "equal" that being Monkey.D Luffy
> 
> An please find it. I wanna see that shit


 Zoro works for him because he accepts him as a captain due to his extreme loyalty and because Zoro isn't stronger than him. It doesn't have to be 100% strength related. 

Here is the thread:


----------



## Dunno (Jun 26, 2017)

Yuki said:


> And to think some people legit think Zoro is FM level.


Not that it would help him land a blow on Mihawk...


----------



## Yuki (Jun 26, 2017)

Dunno said:


> Not that it would help him land a blow on Mihawk...



A FM level swordsmen would be able to land some cuts on Mihawk.


----------



## g4snake108 (Jun 27, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Luffy and Zoro are tied for strongest sn. They were some of the weakest pre skip though


No they aren't.
G4 luffy kills zoro with KG.
Law and kidd would legit own zoro.
Even drake might get a W against zoro.


----------



## Magnet40 (Jun 27, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Zoro works for him because he accepts him as a captain due to his extreme loyalty and because Zoro isn't stronger than him. It doesn't have to be 100% strength related.
> 
> Here is the thread:  said that



Its always 100% strength related


----------



## Dunno (Jun 28, 2017)

Yuki said:


> A FM level swordsmen would be able to land some cuts on Mihawk.


Not if Mihawk didn't want him to.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jun 28, 2017)

Magnet40 said:


> Its always 100% strength related


 even if it was, my answer still answers your question


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 28, 2017)

Yuki said:


> No, the only thing i'm blinded by is misunderstanding. Of how favoritism can effect someones views THIS much.
> 
> My fav characters are Shanks and Marco. Do you ever see me hyping either of those two above the likes of anyone else? It's true that i have hope that current Shanks is considered the WSM. But i don't think it's likely because of Mihawk and the WSS thing. I think him and Mihawk are around the same level and a flashback to a little spar of theirs is one of the things i want to see the most.



Shanks is stronger than Mihawk. The portrayal speaks for itself.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## Esdese (Jun 28, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> Shanks is stronger than Mihawk. The portrayal speaks for itself.


no he is not
plz re-read the manga

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 28, 2017)

Esdese said:


> no he is not
> plz re-read the manga



Show me one character who had relevant interactions with multiple top-tier characters without looking inferior in nearly one arc. Shanks and maybe Whitebeard to some lesser extent are the only characters who come to mind, but Marineford Whitebeard's strength is very misrepresented on this forum. Shanks clashed with the strongest version of Whitebeard we've seen on panel - not only appearing to be physically stronger due to how he clashed with Whitebeard - but their displays of Conqueror's Haki were displayed as equal. Shanks effortlessly blocking Whitebeard's downward, two-armed bisento attack with one arm more or less disproves that losing an arm made Shanks decrease in strength to the level that many posters try to imply. That happened when Luffy was just a child, and Shanks didn't even appear to be an emperor based on how young the crew was. That's a long time for someone to grow in strength or even change as a character, yet it's just assumed that MIhawk is stronger because of his title and refusing to fight Shanks over something that can be construed as honor. Just because Mihawk might need to use two arms at times when wielding a sword doesn't mean Shanks has to. His presence also made a bloodlusted Akainu nervous and forced Blackbeard Pirates to leave Marineford, even though Teach was threatening to sink the place and was fighting Sengoku at the time. He also managed to reach Marineford well before Kaidou, who is known as very ruthless. That doesn't even include symbolism and his relationships with Luffy/Roger. No one thinks about stopping what they're doing just because Mihawk is standing around. The reactions and how those two are viewed in comparison with one another would appear to be tiers apart in relevance.

All of that is superior to anything Mihawk has shown. I don't care about some title that is very ambiguous in the first place. Mihawk lives in Paradise and doesn't even have a flag of his own. He can somehow find Shanks when he needs to, which points at him having Shanks' vivre card. Then he leaves all of a sudden in the war when Shanks would happen to appear, not to mention apologizing to Shanks when trying to kill Luffy. He's more than likely Shanks' missing commander that isn't present at Marineford. Unless Shanks' pet monkey counts as one of the commanders, then someone is missing in that situation. We already know Rockstar existed at the time, but he's seemingly not one of Shanks' commanders when he wasn't present. There's one more missing character to match the parallel with Teach's crew, and no one is more fitting than Mihawk. Everything we've seen on panel would suggest Mihawk's allegiance to Shanks and friendship.

Unless you want to argue that calling off a fight with Vista and having one of your slashes to test Whitebeard's strength being casually stopped by Jozu as superior portrayal, then be my guest. Interactions with Crocodile and Daz Bones aren't very telling when it comes to portrayal, either.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3 | Optimistic 1


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 29, 2017)

It's also worth nothing that most One Piece characters assume Mihawk cut off Shanks' arm, which is how Mihawk got his title. It's not common knowledge that Shanks got his arm taken off from a sea monster. Whitebeard indicates that Shanks and Mihawk used to duel, knowing the rumors of Mihawk cutting off Shanks' arm are false. He calls out the bullshit due to the fact that he knows Shanks' strength and his potential, so he was surprised to hear of him leaving the weakest sea that way. We see that it's something Mihawk and Shanks joke around about. When he goes to see Shanks on the small island, Shanks would ask if he's looking for a fight, while Mihawk replies like the asshole he is with their inside joke. They're just good friends and messing around with each other, though. Mihawk is partying with them right after, and he's generally seen as more serious than most characters. Shanks' commanders were just chilling in Mihawk's presence, too.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Furinji Saiga (Jun 29, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> *It's also worth nothing that most One Piece characters assume Mihawk cut off Shanks' arm, which is how Mihawk got his title. *It's not common knowledge that Shanks got his arm taken off from a sea monster. Whitebeard indicates that Shanks and Mihawk used to duel,* knowing the rumors of Mihawk cutting off Shanks' arm are false.* He calls out the bullshit due to the fact that he knows Shanks' strength and his potential, so he was surprised to hear of him leaving the weakest sea that way. We see that it's something Mihawk and Shanks joke around about. When he goes to see Shanks on the small island, Shanks would ask if he's looking for a fight, while Mihawk replies like the asshole he is with their inside joke. They're just good friends and messing around with each other, though. Mihawk is partying with them right after, and he's generally seen as more serious than most characters. Shanks' commanders were just chilling in Mihawk's presence, too.




Like you just made all that up to reach some weird conclusion. 
Where was any of this stated or even hinted?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 29, 2017)

Furinji Saiga said:


> Like you just made all that up to reach some weird conclusion.
> Where was any of this stated or even hinted?



All of that was just a joke to trigger Mihawk fans. 
If any of that happens to be true...

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## Furinji Saiga (Jun 29, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> All of that was just a joke to trigger Mihawk fans.
> If any of that happens to be true...





Looking at your prior posts and the way you hype Shanks to such a ridiculous level. 

It seems like you will be the one who will be disappointed in the end.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


----------



## Esdese (Jun 29, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> Show me one character who had relevant interactions with multiple top-tier characters without looking inferior in nearly one arc. Shanks and maybe Whitebeard to some lesser extent are the only characters who come to mind, but Marineford Whitebeard's strength is very misrepresented on this forum. Shanks clashed with the strongest version of Whitebeard we've seen on panel - not only appearing to be physically stronger due to how he clashed with Whitebeard - but their displays of Conqueror's Haki were displayed as equal. Shanks effortlessly blocking Whitebeard's downward, two-armed bisento attack with one arm more or less disproves that losing an arm made Shanks decrease in strength to the level that many posters try to imply. That happened when Luffy was just a child, and Shanks didn't even appear to be an emperor based on how young the crew was. That's a long time for someone to grow in strength or even change as a character, yet it's just assumed that MIhawk is stronger because of his title and refusing to fight Shanks over something that can be construed as honor. Just because Mihawk might need to use two arms at times when wielding a sword doesn't mean Shanks has to. His presence also made a bloodlusted Akainu nervous and forced Blackbeard Pirates to leave Marineford, even though Teach was threatening to sink the place and was fighting Sengoku at the time. He also managed to reach Marineford well before Kaidou, who is known as very ruthless. That doesn't even include symbolism and his relationships with Luffy/Roger. No one thinks about stopping what they're doing just because Mihawk is standing around. The reactions and how those two are viewed in comparison with one another would appear to be tiers apart in relevance.
> 
> All of that is superior to anything Mihawk has shown. I don't care about some title that is very ambiguous in the first place. Mihawk lives in Paradise and doesn't even have a flag of his own. He can somehow find Shanks when he needs to, which points at him having Shanks' vivre card. Then he leaves all of a sudden in the war when Shanks would happen to appear, not to mention apologizing to Shanks when trying to kill Luffy. He's more than likely Shanks' missing commander that isn't present at Marineford. Unless Shanks' pet monkey counts as one of the commanders, then someone is missing in that situation. We already know Rockstar existed at the time, but he's seemingly not one of Shanks' commanders when he wasn't present. There's one more missing character to match the parallel with Teach's crew, and no one is more fitting than Mihawk. Everything we've seen on panel would suggest Mihawk's allegiance to Shanks and friendship.
> 
> Unless you want to argue that calling off a fight with Vista and having one of your slashes to test Whitebeard's strength being casually stopped by Jozu as superior portrayal, then be my guest. Interactions with Crocodile and Daz Bones aren't very telling when it comes to portrayal, either.




You said a whole lot of nothing for writing a wall of text. Most of it was just your speculation. Shanks as of the manga has only been shown using a sword (plz none of that he kicks like sanji fanboy crap).  Mihawk is the worlds strongest swordsman currently. Based off the current feats of Shanks in the series one can so far safely assume he only uses a sword primarily, so far as shown. So until that changes Mihawk is > Shanks.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 29, 2017)

Esdese said:


> You said a whole lot of nothing for writing a wall of text. Most of it was just your speculation. Shanks as of the manga has only been shown using a sword (plz none of that he kicks like sanji fanboy crap).  Mihawk is the worlds strongest swordsman currently. Based off the current feats of Shanks in the series one can so far safely assume he only uses a sword primarily, so far as shown. So until that changes Mihawk is > Shanks.



Wow. That's an excellent response for someone who goes on to talk about feats, while Mihawk's feats are complete horseshit compared to Shanks' feats. How are Shanks' feats against Whitebeard and what he did at Marineford invalid? The only speculation in that post was Mihawk being in Shanks' crew, but nothing else is speculation. 

You've only told me what has been regurgitated ad nauseum on this forum, but that doesn't mean it's correct.


----------



## Dunno (Jun 29, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> Wow. That's an excellent response for someone who goes on to talk about feats, while Mihawk's feats are complete horseshit compared to Shanks' feats. How are Shanks' feats against Whitebeard and what he did at Marineford invalid? The only speculation in that post was Mihawk being in Shanks' crew, but nothing else is speculation.
> 
> You've only told me what has been regurgitated ad nauseum on this forum, but that doesn't mean it's correct.



Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world. That's a feat which places him above any other swordsman. As long Shanks is a swordsman and Mihawk's status remains, any feat of his will be inferior to Mihawk's. And Shanks being a swordsman is very likely, given what we know. Shanks' feats aren't invalid, but they are most likely not as good as Mihawk's.


----------



## Gohara (Jun 29, 2017)

Bisentos are a type of sword that Whitebeard uses a lot and yet we know that Whitebeard is > Mihawk.  The way I see it is that Mihawk is the most skilled swordsman.  Also if we're using statements Garp states that the Yonkou are the 4 most powerful Pirates.  Mihawk is a Pirate.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## trance (Jun 29, 2017)

>turned into a Shanks v. Mihawk thread


----------



## trance (Jun 29, 2017)

Gohara said:


> Mihawk is a Pirate.


 
not taking sides but just pointing out that as a Shichibukai, Mihawk is technically a _former _pirate

the Yonko are active pirates


----------



## barreltheif (Jun 29, 2017)

Gohara said:


> Bisentos are a type of sword that Whitebeard uses a lot and yet we know that Whitebeard is > Mihawk.  The way I see it is that Mihawk is the most skilled swordsman.  Also if we're using statements Garp states that the Yonkou are the 4 most powerful Pirates.  Mihawk is a Pirate.



No, he said the Shanks is "on the same level as Whitebeard" as "one of the four most powerful pirates", " emperors who rule over the second half of the grand line". He's talking about their power as emperors, not their ability to win duels.

Also, a bisento is a polearm, not a sword. Not to mention that fighting with his bisento is not WB's primarily form of combat.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 29, 2017)

Dunno said:


> Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world. That's a feat which places him above any other swordsman. As long Shanks is a swordsman and Mihawk's status remains, any feat of his will be inferior to Mihawk's. And Shanks being a swordsman is very likely, given what we know. Shanks' feats aren't invalid, but they are most likely not as good as Mihawk's.



I don't understand how Shanks' feats are inferior to Mihawk's when we know they're better. We've seen Shanks performing better feats than Mihawk, so they are better than Mihawk's. They aren't most likely inferior to Mihawk's, considering they're canonically better than Mihawk's.

Shanks doesn't only use a sword, anyway. He is capable of cracking ships and splitting the skies with Conqueror's Haki. We've seen Rayleigh kicking Kizaru's leg and shooting Haki beams out of his hand, yet it's assumed that he's a swordsman by most posters. We've only seen Mihawk doing shit with a sword, which makes sense due to being the highest in skill with a sword. Mihawk hasn't suggested that he uses other abilities regularly except for Haki that all top-tier characters use.

Viz refers to Mihawk as "World's Greatest Swordsman" along with a few others. I have trouble finding cnet's translation, but I'm assuming it's close to the same thing. If you want to get technical, "greatest" would refer to highest or most prominent, which means that Mihawk is highest/most prominent in skill with use of a sword. Even if the word is strongest, that would mean he's strongest in skill when using a sword. It doesn't matter what it's called. Shanks is stronger than Mihawk, and it can't really get more obvious in the manga. Mihawk's portrayal is vastly inferior based on what we've seen. How an ambiguous title can change that is beyond me.

Garp can grab a sword and clobber Zoro with it, but it doesn't mean he's the better swordsman. Mihawk is the strongest individual or greatest individual in skill with use of a sword, but that doesn't mean he's the strongest individual who wields a sword. Every single definition I've seen in a dictionary suggests the sword skill as something very significant when concerning swordsmen.

Five definitions from dictionaries refer to swordsmen as skilled individuals who use a sword. I went down to even more than ten definitions, and all of them are pointing to skill rather than strength. Mihawk's swordsmanship is either the strongest or greatest in skill. That doesn't mean he can't be defeated in other ways. Those potential ways can be things like Haki to supplement one's fighting style. Swordsmanship doesn't drag in Haki, as it's a separate ability that fruit users and brawlers also use to supplement their abilities.

a person who uses or is skilled in the use of a sword
one skilled in swordplay
a person skilled in fighting with a sword
a person skilled at using swords in sport or combat
a man who is skilled in the use of swords



Kyouko said:


> not taking sides but just pointing out that as a Shichibukai, Mihawk is technically a _former _pirate
> 
> the Yonko are active pirates



Shichibukai are still pirates with access to marine resources. That's how I always viewed them. However, I've never seen Mihawk doing corrupt shit like Crocodile or Doflamingo, and he doesn't even have a flag of his own. They're merely pirates that World Government use to appear stronger. None of them even really give a shit about their position.


----------



## barreltheif (Jun 29, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> I don't understand how Shanks' feats are inferior to Mihawk's when we know they're better. We've seen Shanks performing better feats than Mihawk, so they are better than Mihawk's. They aren't most likely inferior to Mihawk's, considering they're canonically better than Mihawk's.
> Shanks doesn't only use a sword, anyway. He is capable of cracking ships and splitting the skies with Conqueror's Haki. We've seen Rayleigh kicking Kizaru's leg and shooting Haki beams out of his hand, yet it's assumed that he's a swordsman by most posters. We've only seen Mihawk doing shit with a sword, which makes sense due to being the highest in skill with a sword. Mihawk hasn't suggested that he uses other abilities regularly except for Haki that all top-tier characters use.
> Viz refers to Mihawk as "World's Greatest Swordsman" along with a few others. I have trouble finding cnet's translation, but I'm assuming it's close to the same thing. If you want to get technical, "greatest" would refer to highest or most prominent, which means that Mihawk is highest/most prominent in skill with use of a sword. Even if the word is strongest, that would mean he's strongest in skill when using a sword. It doesn't matter what it's called. Shanks is stronger than Mihawk, and it can't really get more obvious in the manga. Mihawk's portrayal is vastly inferior based on what we've seen. How an ambiguous title can change that is beyond me.
> Garp can grab a sword and clobber Zoro with it, but it doesn't mean he's the better swordsman. Mihawk is the strongest individual or greatest individual in skill with use of a sword, but that doesn't mean he's the strongest individual who wields a sword. Every singles definition I've seen in a dictionary suggests the sword skill as something very significant when concerning swordsmen.
> Five definitions from dictionaries refer to swordsmen as skilled individuals who use a sword. That part is unknown and can be construed differently. I went down to even more than ten definitions, and all of them are pointing to skill rather than strength. Mihawk's swordsmanship is either the strongest or greatest in skill. That doesn't mean he can't be defeated in other ways. Those potential ways can be things like Haki to supplement one's fighting style. Swordsmanship doesn't drag in Haki, as it's a separate ability that fruit users and brawlers also user to supplement their abilities.



Mihawk is the STRONGEST swordsman, just as Whitebeard is the strongest man. It's the same word in each of their titles. "Sekai saikyou no otoko" and "sekai saikyou no kenshi".

Haki is part of swordsmanship when it's used in a swordfight. Zoro trained his haki so that he can become the strongest swordsman. If he beats Mihawk due to superior haki, he will be the strongest.

Yes, if Garp beats the WSS in a swordfight, then he is the strongest swordsman. Obviously.

Mihawk's on panel feats are arguably better than Shanks', though there's not much point in debating that, since we've seen very little from either of them, and we already know that the strongest swordsman is stronger than the second strongest.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 29, 2017)

barreltheif said:


> Mihawk is the STRONGEST swordsman, just as Whitebeard is the strongest man. It's the same word in each of their titles. "Sekai saikyou no otoko" and "sekai saikyou no kenshi".
> 
> Haki is part of swordsmanship when it's used in a swordfight. Zoro trained his haki so that he can become the strongest swordsman. If he beats Mihawk due to superior haki, he will be the strongest.
> 
> ...



It doesn't matter what the translation is. That only means Mihawk is the strongest in skill with use of a sword, assuming strongest is the word. The words "strongest" and "greatest" wouldn't differ in this context, anyway. Every definition of swordsman I've seen refers to skill with use of a sword or something very close in meaning. Haki isn't included in that definition, as it's just a supplement to other abilities and something completely different.

How are Mihawk's feats better than Shanks' feats? You've stated that it's arguable, but I've never heard such a claim before. Even Mihawk's supporters don't argue his feats on panel. They argue his title due to the feats and especially portrayal just not being on the same level as the way his title is construed in their eyes.


----------



## SwordSlayer99 (Jun 29, 2017)

Zoro gets destroyed in this fight in my opinion.  

People try to downplay Mihawk and say he's weaker than someone like Vista, but those arguments are rendered null by the fact that Mihawk is said to be the the worlds strongest swordsman. I don't want to get into a Mihawk vs Shanks fight but no matter who is the strongest between them, the other one isn't that much weaker in my opinion. Shank's is Yonko level(Doesn't matter if he's one of the strongest or weakest Yonko the fact that Shanks showed up to Marineford and stopped the war and Shanks(When he had 2 hands) used to spar with Mihawk shows that the two are comparable in strength). And even if Mihawk is slightly weaker than him, Mihawk still would be Yonko level or at least comparable to them. 
Shanks >= Mihawk > Marco > Kakaturi >> Cracker > Doflamingo >=G4 Luffy(WCI arc) > G4 Luffy(Dressrosa) > Zoro.


----------



## trance (Jun 30, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> Shichibukai are still pirates with access to marine resources



they are still technically pirates (closer to privateers, tho) but since they have an alliance with the World Government, they're not viewed as an active threat like the Yonko are


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 30, 2017)

Kyouko said:


> they are still technically pirates (closer to privateers, tho) but since they have an alliance with the World Government, they're not viewed as an active threat like the Yonko are



That sounds reasonable.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 30, 2017)

SwordSlayer99 said:


> People try to downplay Mihawk and say he's weaker than someone like Vista, but those arguments are rendered null by the fact that Mihawk is said to be the the worlds strongest swordsman.



Vista is weaker than Mihawk because he's irrelevant as a character when compared to him. His feats and portrayal are also inferior. Additionally, it would be very strange for Vista to be even roughly equal to Mihawk. Based on the way he was shown at Marineford, Vista is Whitebeard's third strongest. Mihawk was portrayed as someone who attacked Whitebeard along with Kizaru in the beginning of the war. Both of them were stopped by Whitebeard's strongest commanders in some way. It's fair to assume that Kizaru is stronger than Marco, so I think it's similarly fair to assume that Mihawk is stronger than Jozu. Diamond and its strength against Mihawk aside, Jozu can't cover his entire body in diamond at one time. He would lose mobility and can only use it that way for defensive purposes. He's also quite a large target and would constantly be on the defensive against Mihawk's slashes. It has been shown that Jozu is able to casually throw Mihawk's slashes, but I doubt he's able to toss them faster than Mihawk can throw a slash. The gap between Mihawk and Jozu is quite large, while the gap between Kizaru and Marco isn't very large. Mihawk is around the same level as Marco and C3. He might be potentially stronger than them, but that depends on what kind of opponent he will be for Zoro.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Dunno (Jun 30, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> It doesn't matter what the translation is. That only means Mihawk is the strongest in skill with use of a sword, assuming strongest is the word. The words "strongest" and "greatest" wouldn't differ in this context, anyway. Every definition of swordsman I've seen refers to skill with use of a sword or something very close in meaning. Haki isn't included in that definition, as it's just a supplement to other abilities and something completely different.
> 
> How are Mihawk's feats better than Shanks' feats? You've stated that it's arguable, but I've never heard such a claim before. Even Mihawk's supporters don't argue his feats on panel. They argue his title due to the feats and especially portrayal just not being on the same level as the way his title is construed in their eyes.


Of course the translation matters. Mihawk's title is translated into "strongest", not "greatest", just like Whitebeard's. And it has nothing to do at all with his "skill" with the sword, but only with his strength. Just read his title again and you'll see. 

You wouldn't say that Whitebeard's title of WSM refers to his skill at manliness, would you? 

In One Piece, there are certain facts. These facts are facts. If a textbox says says that Kizaru is an admiral for example, then Kizaru is an admiral. He's not an admiral candidate or a retired admiral. He's an admiral. The same is true if a textbox says that Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman. That means he is the world's strongest swordsman, not that he is the world's second strongest swordsman and not that he ia the world's most skilled swordsman. 

Facts = facts 
Not facts =/= facts

I can't understand how this can be so hard to comprehend, the only thing you need to do is to read one line and there is no room at all for misconceptions. 

The only thing that you can possibly argue is the Shanks wouldn't be considered a swordsman, just like Garp with a sword wouldn't be considered one, but that's quite a long shot.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 30, 2017)

Dunno said:


> Of course the translation matters. Mihawk's title is translated into "strongest", not "greatest", just like Whitebeard's. And it has nothing to do at all with his "skill" with the sword, but only with his strength. Just read his title again and you'll see.



I understand the "strongest" or "greatest" part of the title. Either of those words make little difference in how the meaning of Mihawk's entire title is construed, though.



> You wouldn't say that Whitebeard's title of WSM refers to his skill at manliness, would you



Well, man and swordsman have different meanings. Whitebeard being the strongest man is something more absolute, though I disagree that Marineford Whitebeard is stronger than Shanks for other reasons. I think the confusion comes from the fact that most posters think swordsman is very broad in definition and can mean simply just wielding a sword. That doesn't make any sense based on every definition of swordsman I've seen in dictionaries.



> In One Piece, there are certain facts. These facts are facts. If a textbox says says that Kizaru is an admiral for example, then Kizaru is an admiral. He's not an admiral candidate or a retired admiral. He's an admiral. The same is true if a textbox says that Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman. That means he is the world's strongest swordsman, not that he is the world's second strongest swordsman and not that he ia the world's most skilled swordsman.
> 
> Facts = facts
> Not facts =/= facts
> ...



The misconception is how one defines swordsman. Dictionaries have defined it as "one skilled with a sword" among related meanings. Swordsmanship is viewed as something not very basic like just holding a sword. Rather, it's something more akin to style and technique. That's what I gather from these definitions, at least. Skill emphasizes capability. Haki is another skill that can be used with a sword, just like fruit users and brawlers can use it. One's capability in Haki can be higher than their capability in swordsmanship, similar to how one's capability in swordsmanship can be higher than their capability in Haki. We know that Mihawk is the strongest or greatest in skill with use of a sword. The two words differ very little in what that ultimately means.



> The only thing that you can possibly argue is the Shanks wouldn't be considered a swordsman, just like Garp with a sword wouldn't be considered one, but that's quite a long shot.



Shanks isn't one. He happens to have one, but we've seen him showing competence in all three forms of Haki. When I personally look at Shanks' feats, I don't think of swordsman. Haki is what defines Shanks in the meeting with Whitebeard, and it's not the use of his sword that is defined or made apparent. Granted, Mihawk can also use Haki, but I fail to see how his capability in Haki would be anywhere near Shanks' capability when the feats disprove it. When it comes to Mihawk, we hear "strongest slash" or Black Blade. Those are details that point at being a swordsman.


----------



## Dunno (Jun 30, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> I understand the "strongest" or "greatest" part of the title. Either of those words make little difference in how the meaning of Mihawk's entire title is construed, though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Shanks can use Haki as well, yes, but he's not relying on it more than say Luffy, and Luffy is very much considered a rubberman and quite little a hakiman. Shanks' CoC is most likely better than Mihawk's, yes but his CoA is probably weaker, since that what Mihawk seems to specialize in. When it comes to CoO, we really have no idea. Also, the feats don't disprove anything concerning their haki. They might hint at the things I have previously mentioned, but until we see the extent of their power, none of it is proven. 

Shanks has swords on his jolly roger, the only one I know of that does (although I will admit that my knowledge on this matter is quite limited), he has used his sword to create all of his impressive feats and he used to duel Mihawk when they were young. All of these matters points towards him being a legit swordsman, unlike say Kizaru or Law.

Claiming that anyone skilled with a sword is a swordsman is obviously wrong. The only way of classifying people that makes sense is by their main fighting style, their main weapon.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Gohara (Jun 30, 2017)

@ barrelthief.

Those terms aren't exclusive. Bisentos can legitimately be classified as types of swords and have been in some weapon based books. We see Whitebeard's character use a Bisento a lot so if that doesn't necessarily count as being primarily a swordsman then who's to say that Shanks' character can't simply be a swordsman who also uses other primary ways of combat? As for what Garp's character says he simply says that out of millions of Pirates the Yonkou are the 4 most powerful Pirates. While Garp's character does also mention that they rule like Emperors he doesn't make any cause and effect type of statement suggesting that it's the reason for his character stating that the Yonkou are the 4 most powerful Pirates. His character also doesn't say anything about the Yonkou's Crew Members' and Allies' characters when referring to the Yonkou being the most powerful. Even if one finds the statement open to interpretation the same can be said about what characters are and aren't included in the Swordsman title as well as whether or not Oda simply means best swordsman.

@ kyouko.

Well Mihawk's character is a Pirate that's aligned with The World Government, it's not like The Shichibukai are entirely retired as Pirates, they're just allowed to do what they want as Pirates as long as it's not against The World Government.


----------



## trance (Jul 1, 2017)

Gohara said:


> Well Mihawk's character is a Pirate that's aligned with The World Government, it's not like The Shichibukai are entirely retired as Pirates, they're just allowed to do what they want as Pirates as long as it's not against The World Government.



the context of Garp's statement is mostly referring to _active _pirates _not aligned with the World Government and the Marines
_


----------



## Dunno (Jul 1, 2017)

Also, I don't think anyone claims that Mihawk is more powerful than Shanks. Shanks does have a whole Yonkou crew and most likely a whole tonne of allies and countries under his command as well. Mihawk has Perona, a creepy castle, some baboons, a raft and a sword. 

What some of us do claim is that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks, which is something very different.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Yuki (Jul 1, 2017)

Shanks and Mihawk use to duel. It always ending in a draw. Shanks lost his arm and Mihawk lost interest. In that time, Mihawk became known as the WSS a legit title in universe that he owns. And Shanks became a Yonko. A legit title in verse that he owns.

No one knows who would win. If you asked Mihawk i very much doubt he'd tell you that he would win even if you used some kind of truth serum. Same with Shanks.

The reason Mihawk WILL NOT fight Shanks, is because even if he can win their duel, he will never know if he could do the same if Shanks had both of his arms. So he refuses. Mihawk legit defines the word honor when it comes to swordsmen. That's why even if he were to lose his Shichibukai title, he will always walk away from a fight with Shanks. Winning is pointless to him. It proves nothing in his own mind. He just loses a friend. 

Even i use to say shit about his title. But none of it is true. If Shanks was stronger than Mihawk, then there is no way Mihawk would hang onto his title. He's not a fraud. As such, Mihawk at the very least believes, they are still equal.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## hokageyonkou (Jul 1, 2017)

I would say low diff because zoro still has a long way to go to catch up to mihawk in terms of raw power.


----------



## Gohara (Jul 1, 2017)

@ Kyouko.

I don't know, I don't see anything about the statement that specifies that Garp is excluding Pirates that are aligned with The World Government.  The Shichibukai are Pirates with more freedom than most other Pirates.  However it's not like Oda has explicitly stated that Shanks is more powerful than Mihawk.  I do think that Garp's statement is a point in Mihawk's favor though or at least more of a point in Shanks' favor than Mihawk's title is a point in his character's favor.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 2, 2017)

This is where you do reconciliation and assume Garp wasn't talking about the Warlords. Not a big assumption


----------



## Gohara (Jul 2, 2017)

Big assumption or not though it's an unnecessary assumption, exceptions are specified, not assumed.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 3, 2017)

Then why is Mihawk the WSS and Zoro's end goal if Shanks is >?

That makes 0 sense. The same reason WB is the strongest is the same reason Mihawk is. You can't have one without the other.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Gohara (Jul 4, 2017)

If Shanks isn't included in the title then I don't see why it would matter, and if Oda simply means best swordsman, then it wouldn't matter either way.


----------



## trance (Jul 4, 2017)

Gohara said:


> I don't see anything about the statement that specifies that Garp is excluding Pirates that are aligned with The World Government.



because again, _technically speaking_, the Shichibukai are _former_ pirates 

no one's saying the Yonko aren't > the Shichibukai due to other pieces of insurmountable evidence but that statement can't really be used for that argument


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 4, 2017)

Gohara said:


> If Shanks isn't included in the title then I don't see why it would matter, and if Oda simply means best swordsman, then it wouldn't matter either way.


 Shanks used a sword vs WB, was going to pull out his sword vs Ace, and used a sword to block Akainuts' punch. He's a swordsman. 

Oda means strongest swordsman, the same way WB's title isn't best man


----------



## Yuki (Jul 4, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Shanks used a sword vs WB, was going to pull out his sword vs Ace, and used a sword to block Akainuts' punch. He's a swordsman.
> 
> Oda means strongest swordsman, the same way WB's title isn't best man



The best at swordsmanship is clearly no relation to "the best man" ...

It's just obvious to some that the person who holds the title of strongest swordsmen should indeed be the best in the world at using a sword.

What you're saying means that Mihawk title covers anyone using a sword when it comes to strength but not skill? That there can be people in the world better at using a sword that are just overall weaker? No... just no... We both know what that title means above all else. Above strength, there is still. Something Mihawk told us the readers himself once.


----------



## hokageyonkou (Jul 4, 2017)

worlds strongest swordsman means that your above all the other swordsman, which includes shanks, rayleigh etc. 

stop trying to downplay mihawk.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 4, 2017)

Yuki said:


> The best at swordsmanship is clearly no relation to "the best man" ...
> 
> It's just obvious to some that the person who holds the title of strongest swordsmen should indeed be the best in the world at using a sword.
> 
> What you're saying means that Mihawk title covers anyone using a sword when it comes to strength but not skill? That there can be people in the world better at using a sword that are just overall weaker? No... just no... We both know what that title means above all else. Above strength, there is still. Something Mihawk told us the readers himself once.


 saikyou means strongest 

Sekai means world


----------



## Yuki (Jul 4, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> saikyou means strongest
> 
> Sekai means world



Strongest means physical strength.

Mihawks the swordsmen with the most psychical strength confirmed. Cool

Don't say the same shit over and over again. >_> We all know there is no perfect translation to that. It's just the nearest. 

Whitebeard was the strongest, but was he the Most powerful? 

Saikyou only means strongest after all right?


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 4, 2017)

yes

yes

i can not find any alternate translation of saikyou on the internet. they all have strongest and leave it at that.

yes and yes

yes


----------



## barreltheif (Jul 4, 2017)

The strongest swordsman is the person who is strongest in a swordfight. That's why you prove you're the new strongest swordsman by beating the previous one in a swordfight, not through a sword juggling contest or a weightlifting competition.

If you use a sword, but you have some other fighting style you're stronger in, then you might still be stronger than the strongest swordsman.

Shanks' Jolly Roger has swords on it. He has used a sword every time we've seen him fight. He fought with a sword in multiple flashbacks. He's extremely similar in a number of ways to Rayleigh, whose fighting style is swordsmanship. He used to have legendary duels with someone who became the strongest swordsman. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that Shanks has some unknown fighting style that's secretly stronger than his swordsmanship.


----------



## Dunno (Jul 4, 2017)

Yuki said:


> The best at swordsmanship is clearly no relation to "the best man" ...
> 
> It's just obvious to some that the person who holds the title of strongest swordsmen should indeed be the best in the world at using a sword.
> 
> What you're saying means that Mihawk title covers anyone using a sword when it comes to strength but not skill? That there can be people in the world better at using a sword that are just overall weaker? No... just no... We both know what that title means above all else. Above strength, there is still. Something Mihawk told us the readers himself once.


"World's *Strongest* Swordsman". It's all about strength. Just like how the strongest boxer in the world is the one who wins the most boxing fights, and not necessarily the most "skilled" fighter, or the world's best tennis player is the player who wins the most, and not the one who's the most "skilled" at hitting the ball. Just by reading the text in the introduction box, we can clearly see what it states, at that there are no other interpretations possible.


----------



## Gohara (Jul 5, 2017)

@ mysticgohan.

Whitebeard's title isn't necessarily categorical though so it's not necessarily a comparable title. Also as Yuki is saying if we're going to be technical anyone can claim strongest to mean physically strongest. Plus that's all still assuming that Shanks is even included in the title, which he might not be. The examples that you're naming are true but we've barely seen Shanks fight yet so those are still limited samples.

@ Kyouko.

Again, though, I respectfully disagree that they're not still Pirates- they're simply Pirates with more freedom than most Pirates that give some of their loot to The World Government. At least we agree that The Yonkou are > The Shichibukai though so I guess it doesn't matter much.


----------



## trance (Jul 5, 2017)

Gohara said:


> Again, though, I respectfully disagree that they're not still Pirates



again, they're _not_ seen as pirates by the World Government in that because of their pact with the World Government, they don't engage in piracy anymore (well, more like, they shouldn't)

so, _technically, _they aren't pirates anymore

especially since they parallel privateers who also _technically we_ren't pirates either


----------



## Yuki (Jul 5, 2017)

Dunno said:


> "World's *Strongest* Swordsman". It's all about strength. Just like how the strongest boxer in the world is the one who wins the most boxing fights, and not necessarily the most "skilled" fighter, or the world's best tennis player is the player who wins the most, and not the one who's the most "skilled" at hitting the ball. Just by reading the text in the introduction box, we can clearly see what it states, at that there are no other interpretations possible.



LOL! Totally wrong. The most skilled boxer wins. Not the strongest. Weight classes exist. Even then it's not the strongest in them that normally has the title. Each of the best champs in history have all noted fighters that had more strength than them but they were no match because of the difference in skill.

Emmm the worlds best tennis players are the ones best at hitting the ball with the bat... what?

Of fucking course there is. But whatever. Think what you like. Not arguing with you over this BS again. 

As i said. Mihawk himself told us skill matters more than strength. Without skill strength does not matter.

Luffy showed us this much in Arlong park. Arlong easily swept away the swords Luffy picked up. Then Luffy punched him and he went flying. Oda has already shown us multiple times physical strength does not make the swordsmen. SKILL does.

Honestly you're acting like it's possible there is a swordsmen with more skill out there than Mihawk.


----------



## Dunno (Jul 5, 2017)

Yuki said:


> LOL! Totally wrong. The most skilled boxer wins. Not the strongest. Weight classes exist. Even then it's not the strongest in them that normally has the title. Each of the best champs in history have all noted fighters that had more strength than them but they were no match because of the difference in skill.
> 
> Emmm the worlds best tennis players are the ones best at hitting the ball with the bat... what?
> 
> ...


Why would a tennis player use a bat? 

Of course there is the possibility that some other swordsman is more skilled than Mihawk, just like there's the possibility that there was someone more skilled than Federer at tennis during his peak. It's not very likely, but Mihawk isn't confirmed to be the world's most skilled swordsman, only the world's strongest. 

Best =/= Most skilled
Best = Best

Strongest =/= Most skilled
Strongest = Strongest


I think you're misunderstanding this whole debate. What I'm writing isn't my opinion. It's literally what's written in the manga. There's no interpretation possible, it's a clear statement. Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world, as stated by Oda himself. If you want to argue against the words of the author, then be my guest. Just know that you by definition are wrong. 

It's like if I tried to argue that Kizaru wasn't an Admiral, that Shanks didn't know Luffy or that Buggy didn't have a DF. Theoretically I could argue about it, but it would make no sense whatsoever.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Yuki (Jul 5, 2017)

Dunno said:


> Why would a tennis player use a bat?
> 
> Of course there is the possibility that some other swordsman is more skilled than Mihawk, just like there's the possibility that there was someone more skilled than Federer at tennis during his peak. It's not very likely, but Mihawk isn't confirmed to be the world's most skilled swordsman, only the world's strongest.
> 
> ...



It's called a tennis bat, tennis rack and something else...  Wtf...


----------



## Dunno (Jul 5, 2017)

Yuki said:


> It's called a tennis bat, tennis rack and something else...  Wtf...


It's called a tennis racket. A bat has to be solid, take for example a table tennis bat or a baseball bat.

I still don't understand your initial confusion. The world's best tennis player is the one who wins the most. It could be because of better skill, but it could also be through better physique or by being better at reading the opponents. The one who wins is the best in general, but not necessarily in every regard.


----------



## Yuki (Jul 5, 2017)

Dunno said:


> It's called a tennis racket. A bat has to be solid, take for example a table tennis bat or a baseball bat.
> 
> I still don't understand your initial confusion. The world's best tennis player is the one who wins the most. It could be because of better skill, but it could also be through better physique or by being better at reading the opponents. The one who wins is the best in general, but not necessarily in every regard.



Do i have to bring up every word that is often used that is used incorrectly? I bet you yourself do it everyday. People do call it a tennis bat. Idk why, but that's what people call it from where i come from.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 5, 2017)

Gohara said:


> @ mysticgohan.
> 
> Whitebeard's title isn't necessarily categorical though so it's not necessarily a comparable title. Also as Yuki is saying if we're going to be technical anyone can claim strongest to mean physically strongest. Plus that's all still assuming that Shanks is even included in the title, which he might not be. The examples that you're naming are true but we've barely seen Shanks fight yet *so those are still limited samples*.
> 
> ...


 All the samples we have point to Shanks being a swordsman. He has done nothing to show anything to the contrary.

Your assumption: Shanks is possibly not a swordsman

Mine: Garp was not talking about the Warlords

Your's is a bigger one

WB's title is comparable because both use the same Japanese words except for the last word.


----------



## barreltheif (Jul 5, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Garp was not talking about the Warlords



Even if you think Garp wasn't talking about the warlords, it's obviously true that the yonkou are the four most powerful pirates. No one else even comes close to competing with them. Doflamingo was probably the fifth most powerful at that point, and he had a much smaller crew and just one big kingdom.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 6, 2017)

That explanation works too


----------



## Gohara (Jul 7, 2017)

@ mysticgohan.

I'm not disagreeing with that, I'm simply pointing out that those are still limited samples, especially when using it to suggest that he's primarily a swordsman and can't be a swordsman while also relying on other aspects of combat.

I respectfully disagree. At least in Shanks' case it's not only reasonable that Shanks could rely on other aspects of combat but we've even seen that his Haki is in a different league compared to almost any other character in the series. It could simply be that Mihawk is a superior swordsman but Shanks is more powerful overall due to excelling in other aspects of combat. Garp doesn't say anything that would suggest that any Pirates are being excluded in the statement and if anything the point of the statement would be lessened if he were excluding any Pirates.

In any language comparable and even the same words can be used to mean multiple different things. Especially in complicated languages like Japanese and in a series that uses a lot of wordplay.

@ Kyouko.

If that is the case such a thing has yet to be stated, so until The World Government explicitly states that they are in no way shape or form Pirates, I see no reason to exclude The Shichibukai from that statement. Their agreement with The World Government doesn't suggest that they can't be Pirates. It if anything gives them more freedom as Pirates. They just can't do anything against The World Government and agree to give some of their treasures to The World Government- Privateers are basically the same with them being Pirates by definition with more freedom.


----------



## trance (Jul 9, 2017)

Gohara said:


> I see no reason to exclude The Shichibukai from that statement



ur wrong but ok


----------



## Yuki (Jul 9, 2017)

Kyouko said:


> ur wrong but ok



Clearly he's not.  Because they are still counted as fucking Pirates.


----------



## trance (Jul 9, 2017)

Yuki said:


> Clearly he's not.  Because they are still counted as fucking Pirates.



was i talking to you?


----------



## Yuki (Jul 9, 2017)

Kyouko said:


> was i talking to you?



When someones so wrong calls others wrong it kinda allows others to jump in and tell you otherwise.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 9, 2017)

Ah the garp statement again.

Garp was refering to the yonkou in there entirety as emperors not them as individual people. The Marines+Warlords do not exist to counter balance 4 people. Its those 4 captains and there crew, allies, influence ect. Thats what makes them emperors and thats what makes them a giant threat.

Reactions: Agree 4


----------



## Suit (Jul 10, 2017)

zoro pushed back an admiral with an unnamed attack. even in a totally legit fight, mihawk isn't winning against zoro with anything under high diff. zoro's pretty much there. now we just wait for shiryu to dethrone mihawk and become zoro's real target

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## trance (Jul 10, 2017)

Suit said:


> even in a totally legit fight, mihawk isn't winning against zoro with anything under high diff



out of everyone i've seen, it seems you rate mihawk the lowest

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Suit (Jul 10, 2017)

Kyouko said:


> out of everyone i've seen, it seems you rate mihawk the lowest



sakazuki fought whitebeard at MF

mihawk fought _vista
_
simple math, broseph

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 10, 2017)

Suit said:


> sakazuki fought whitebeard at MF
> 
> mihawk fought _vista
> _
> simple math, broseph


 Neither were injured and we see from high tier and top tier fights that they take hours and up to 10 days.

Mihawk on the other hand is WSS (Vista is a swordsman, so is Rayleigh, Shiliew, Cracker, Shanks, and Fujitora) and is implied by Oda be capable of fighting Shanks and WB: mangalife chapter 726 page 21

Oda believes Mihawk is worthy of being in a 1v1v1 with them


----------



## Yuki (Jul 10, 2017)

Suit said:


> zoro pushed back an admiral with an unnamed attack. even in a totally legit fight, mihawk isn't winning against zoro with anything under high diff. zoro's pretty much there. now we just wait for shiryu to dethrone mihawk and become zoro's real target



A none serious admiral that thought he was dealing with fodder and has already decided not to beat the SHs.


----------



## Suit (Jul 11, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Neither were injured and we see from high tier and top tier fights that they take hours and up to 10 days.
> 
> Mihawk on the other hand is WSS (Vista is a swordsman, so is Rayleigh, Shiliew, Cracker, Shanks, and Fujitora) and is implied by Oda be capable of fighting Shanks and WB: mangalife chapter 726 page 21
> 
> Oda believes Mihawk is worthy of being in a 1v1v1 with them



if he truly believed that, he would have given mihawk stronger showings at marineford. instead, what we got was

-attack whitebeard, completely stopped by jozu
-bullying luffy, not exactly a feat since this is pre-TS luffy
-stopped by vista
-walked away when shanks showed up

throw his title around all you want, but he was absolutely pathetic at marineford. there's no excusing that if he's truly admiral or yonkou-level. admirals were all duking it out with whitebeard and marco. mihawk was getting held off by a lower-level commander.

hell, by all showings, marco should be able to solidly mid-diff mihawk. i'm being generous as all hell by assuming that frenchy can actually tangle with yonkou first mates.


----------



## Suit (Jul 11, 2017)

Yuki said:


> A none serious admiral that thought he was dealing with fodder and has already decided not to beat the SHs.



well the fact remains that zoro had enough power to push back fujitora, and mihawk is _significantly _weaker than fujitora, assuming that the latter is "true" admiral level. iirc, luffy was even pushing fujitora into possibly having to get serious without even using G4. and we know that zoro is basically right on luffy's heels, so anything luffy can do without G4 is something zoro can _handily _pull off.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 11, 2017)

Suit said:


> if he truly believed that, he would have given mihawk stronger showings at marineford. instead, what we got was
> 
> -attack whitebeard, completely stopped by jozu
> -bullying luffy, not exactly a feat since this is pre-TS luffy
> ...


 Jozu stopped WB because Mihawk didn't use the breath of diamond. It is the same reason Daz Bones took no damage from Mihawk's attack aimed at Luffy. Once Mihawk saw he was going against a person made of steel, he one shot him. Zoro did 0 damage to Daz Bones as well, then he proceeded to one shot him with the breath of steel. 

Steel and diamond are logias to swordsmen, with the added advantage of swordsmen not using the breaths all the time unlike CoA.

I already addressed the Vista thing

Walking away from Shanks shows he is true to his word, not that he is weaker


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 11, 2017)

Dunno said:


> Shanks can use Haki as well, yes, but he's not relying on it more than say Luffy, and Luffy is very much considered a rubberman and quite little a hakiman. Shanks' CoC is most likely better than Mihawk's, yes but his CoA is probably weaker, since that what Mihawk seems to specialize in. When it comes to CoO, we really have no idea. Also, the feats don't disprove anything concerning their haki. They might hint at the things I have previously mentioned, but until we see the extent of their power, none of it is proven.
> 
> Shanks has swords on his jolly roger, the only one I know of that does (although I will admit that my knowledge on this matter is quite limited), he has used his sword to create all of his impressive feats and he used to duel Mihawk when they were young. All of these matters points towards him being a legit swordsman, unlike say Kizaru or Law.
> 
> Claiming that anyone skilled with a sword is a swordsman is obviously wrong. The only way of classifying people that makes sense is by their main fighting style, their main weapon.



How is Shanks not relying on Haki more than Luffy? There's nothing you can possibly gather from that statement.
Are you telling me that Shanks' physical strength and sword were cracking ships, splitting the skies or making his sword not get destroyed by Whitebeard's bisento/melted by Akainu's magma? Luffy's Haki is fucking weak compared to his other abilities. The power from G4 mostly comes from his fruit abilities and physical stats that are increased due to unique abilities.

Shanks' CoC is not *"most likely" *better than Mihawk's. We know it's better based on what we've seen Shanks doing with CoC, not to mention that we don't even know if Mihawk has CoC. As for CoA, Shanks still has better feats than Mihawk. He clashed with the strongest version of Whitebeard we've seen in the manga with no inferiority. Unless you think neither of them were using CoA and just CoC, their Haki had been displayed as equal. It would be kind of strange for either of them to not be using Haki in a top-tier clash, though. I also think you just kind of use both Haki at the same time in those instances. There's no way to determine that, considering Oda didn't start using the shades of black to emphasize CoA until after the timeskip. CoO would be in Shanks' favor, too. He effortlessly avoided the bottle that Whitebeard threw at him, mocked him by finishing his own and then proceeded to clash with him. What makes the feat more intriguing is that Shanks could have been slightly drunk.

Kidd and Drake have swords of some type on their flags, but it wouldn't point at them being swordsmen. I don't recall Kidd ever using a sword in the manga, and Drake went into his Zoan form when his other abilities weren't enough. His Zoan form apparently can't wield a weapon, not to mention that it would look rather strange. Hawkins also apparently seems to have swords on his flag, but his main abilities are related to his fruit.

It's not wrong on any level. You can't prove that a sword is Shanks' main style of fighting. If anything, it's a medium for his power and one of his abilities just like other characters we've seen.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 11, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Walking away from Shanks shows he is true to his word, not that he is weaker



Then why do you think Mihawk is stronger?
If he's true to his word, that suggests you think the two of them didn't settle anything because of Mihawk's honor and respect. That would essentially mean there's no way to prove Mihawk is stronger.


----------



## Suit (Jul 11, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Jozu stopped WB because Mihawk didn't use the breath of diamond. It is the same reason Daz Bones took no damage from Mihawk's attack aimed at Luffy. Once Mihawk saw he was going against a person made of steel, he one shot him. Zoro did 0 damage to Daz Bones as well, then he proceeded to one shot him with the breath of steel.
> 
> Steel and diamond are logias to swordsmen, with the added advantage of swordsmen not using the breaths all the time unlike CoA.
> 
> ...



unless i'm forgetting something, "breath of diamond" is just conjecture (albeit it has merit i guess).

you're seriously underestimating the vista/mihawk clash though. that can't be brushed off when you consider that the entire point of the war was to showcase relative strengths of some of the strongest fighters in the world. i don't think anyone even _considered _admirals to be strong enough to go toe-to-toe with whitebeard before marineford. that's just how important the arc was in portraying some high and top tiers in relation to each other. mihawk didn't get a single solid showing during the war, so the conclusion i have to come is that he simply isn't that big a deal.

if it was kaido, BM, or shanks getting attacked by vista, they would have completely slaughtered him in basically no time at all. if an admiral had faced off with vista, they would have done the same thing and swept him up with little to no trouble. mihawk didn't cruise through like that, though. therefore he simply isn't on their level.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 11, 2017)

Suit said:


> unless i'm forgetting something, "breath of diamond" is just conjecture (albeit it has merit i guess).
> 
> you're seriously underestimating the vista/mihawk clash though. that can't be brushed off when you consider that the entire point of the war was to showcase relative strengths of some of the strongest fighters in the world. i don't think anyone even _considered _admirals to be strong enough to go toe-to-toe with whitebeard before marineford. that's just how important the arc was in portraying some high and top tiers in relation to each other. mihawk didn't get a single solid showing during the war, so the conclusion i have to come is that he simply isn't that big a deal.
> 
> if it was kaido, BM, or shanks getting attacked by vista, they would have completely slaughtered him in basically no time at all. if an admiral had faced off with vista, they would have done the same thing and swept him up with little to no trouble. mihawk didn't cruise through like that, though. therefore he simply isn't on their level.



It's also worth pointing out that Vista and a few others failed to accomplish anything against Vice Admiral Ronse. Whitebeard fucking curbstomped Ronse, and Shanks is someone who is able to equally clash with a stronger version of Whitebeard.


----------



## Suit (Jul 11, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> It's also worth pointing out that Vista and a few others failed to accomplish anything against Vice Admiral Ronse. Whitebeard fucking curbstomped Ronse, and Shanks is someone who is able to equally clash with a stronger version of Whitebeard.



>vista + others not strong enough for ronse
>whitebeard curbstomps ronse
>vista holds off mihawk solo
>"but mihawk is as strong as whitebeard"

i literally can't even


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 11, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> Then why do you think Mihawk is stronger?
> If he's true to his word, that suggests you think the two of them didn't settle anything because of Mihawk's honor and respect. That would essentially mean there's no way to prove Mihawk is stronger.


 Mihawk is WSS and Zoro's EoS enemy. That is why I believe he is stronger. The Mihawk vs WB vs Shanks Oda thing can be used to prove he's on their tier too.



Suit said:


> unless i'm forgetting something, "breath of diamond" is just conjecture (albeit it has merit i guess).
> 
> you're seriously underestimating the vista/mihawk clash though. that can't be brushed off when you consider that the entire point of the war was to showcase relative strengths of some of the strongest fighters in the world. i don't think anyone even _considered _admirals to be strong enough to go toe-to-toe with whitebeard before marineford. that's just how important the arc was in portraying some high and top tiers in relation to each other. mihawk didn't get a single solid showing during the war, so the conclusion i have to come is that he simply isn't that big a deal.
> 
> if it was kaido, BM, or shanks getting attacked by vista, they would have completely slaughtered him in basically no time at all. if an admiral had faced off with vista, they would have done the same thing and swept him up with little to no trouble. mihawk didn't cruise through like that, though. therefore he simply isn't on their level.


 The breath of diamond has merit because Daz Bones asked Zoro if he was going to cut diamond next.

In one piece, people have fights for multiple hours to multiple days. Jack fought Neko/Inu in multiple 12 hour intervals. Luffy fought Cracker for 12 hours. Ace fought Jinbe for 5 days? Akainuts fought Aokiji for 10 or 12 days. Mihawk vs Vista was a chapter long at best. I see nothing wrong with believing Mihawk, and any other top tier, would beat him in say, 10 hours. Not to mention that Mihawk wasn't even paying attention to him in the beginning. Vista also dealt Akainuts a similar amount of damage as Marco did.

The entire point of the war was not to show powerlevels.



Suit said:


> >vista + others not strong enough for ronse
> >whitebeard curbstomps ronse
> >vista holds off mihawk solo
> >"but mihawk is as strong as whitebeard"
> ...


Oda disagrees with you.


----------



## Suit (Jul 11, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Mihawk is WSS and Zoro's EoS enemy. That is why I believe he is stronger. The Mihawk vs WB vs Shanks Oda thing can be used to prove he's on their tier too.
> 
> The breath of diamond has merit because Daz Bones asked Zoro if he was going to cut diamond next.
> 
> ...



the fact that vista was capable of holding mihawk in a stalemate for a long time is exactly _why _mihawk is so unimpressive. unless you consider vista to be way above the likes of katakuri and cracker, he has no place holding off an admiral or emperor level opponent for "multiple hours" or "multiple days." even marco, whitebeard's own first mate, only held up against the admirals for so long before he was clearly losing step. vista should have been wiped up in a heartbeat if he was facing someone who could truly rival shanks.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 11, 2017)

It was not a long time at all. 5 minutes at most


----------



## trance (Jul 11, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> just CoC



it probs just was CoC

we've seen that a clash between CoC produces a shockwave of sorts; see Luffy v. Chinjao and Luffy v. Doffy

Shanks and Whitebeard's was just on another level


----------



## Suit (Jul 11, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> It was not a long time at all. 5 minutes at most



then all you have to ask yourself is "how long would vista stand up to sakazuki solo?"

the answer, is of course, closer to five _seconds _than to five _minutes._ and not for a second will vista even appear to be fighting equally with him.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 11, 2017)

Suit said:


> the fact that vista was capable of holding mihawk in a stalemate for a long time is exactly _why _mihawk is so unimpressive. unless you consider vista to be way above the likes of katakuri and cracker, he has no place holding off an admiral or emperor level opponent for "multiple hours" or "multiple days." even marco, whitebeard's own first mate, only held up against the admirals for so long before he was clearly losing step. vista should have been wiped up in a heartbeat if he was facing someone who could truly rival shanks.



Vista is actually a powerful swordsman, which is why Mihawk couldn't sweep through him. Vista can probably give Mihawk a mid-diff fight.  My problem with the way Mihawk is ranked more so aligns with the way he is portrayed and the opponents he has fought. What makes it worse is that he doesn't show vast superiority in anything except the fights with complete fodder like Daz Bones.

Marco wasn't losing against the admirals. He was on their level and the best thing next to Whitebeard for the pirates fighting at Marineford. None of the admirals gained any type of advantage against him, and the way he was portrayed had been on their level. Garp was portrayed in the same light as Whitebeard through the way he was acknowledged by Whitebeard and pushed back Marco unlike the admirals.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 11, 2017)

Suit said:


> then all you have to ask yourself is "how long would vista stand up to sakazuki solo?"
> 
> the answer, is of course, closer to five _seconds _than to five _minutes._ and not for a second will vista even appear to be fighting equally with him.


 10ish hours, like he would vs Mihawk


----------



## Suit (Jul 11, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> Vista is actually a powerful swordsman, which is why Mihawk couldn't sweep through him. Vista can probably give Mihawk a mid-diff fight.  My problem with the way Mihawk is ranked more so aligns with the way he is portrayed and the opponents he has fought. What makes it worse is that he doesn't show vast superiority in anything except the fights with complete fodder like Daz Bones.
> 
> Marco wasn't losing against the admirals. He was on their level and the best thing next to Whitebeard for the pirates fighting at Marineford. None of the admirals gained any type of advantage against him, and the way he was portrayed had been on their level. Garp was portrayed in the same light as Whitebeard through the way he was acknowledged by Whitebeard and pushed back Marco unlike the admirals.



yeah, his lack of presence in anything resembling a decent fight really makes him seem pathetic.

and while marco wasn't per se "losing" against them, he wasn't able to really do any damage to them. sure, he pushed them back a couple of times, but at the end of it all, he wasn't able to even bypass sakazuki's logia intang after the latter had taken an island splitter to the face. so there's a clear superiority of admirals over marco, but marco was an absolute trooper in holding his own against them.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 11, 2017)

Kyouko said:


> it probs just was CoC
> 
> we've seen that a clash between CoC produces a shockwave of sorts; see Luffy v. Chinjao and Luffy v. Doffy
> 
> Shanks and Whitebeard's was just on another level



Like I said, it's impossible to determine. Oda didn't start to emphasize the use of CoA until after the timeskip. In a clash with that kind of significance, I'd figure they would be using both types of Haki as top-tier characters in a clash of strength. Nonetheless, they're still Haki feats that trump anything Mihawk has shown when it comes to Haki.


----------



## Suit (Jul 11, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> 10ish hours, like he would vs Mihawk



vista isn't holding off sakazuki for 10 hours 

he and marco together couldn't even bypass the red dog's logia intangibility by the end of the war, and the admiral himself had taken an island-splitter to the face, so he was in really bad condition already. vista's just not gonna last.


----------



## trance (Jul 11, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> In a clash with that kind of significance



idk

with what we know about CoA and CoC, CoC is the one that meets the visual requirements of their clash


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 11, 2017)

Kyouko said:


> idk
> 
> with what we know about CoA and CoC, CoC is the one that meets the visual requirements of their clash



Don't get me wrong. I agree that CoC was the main thing going on there, but I also think they were using CoA. It's just that we wouldn't know they're using CoA before the timeskip due to the art differences. Garp was using both CoC and CoA in the clash with Chinjao. However, we're able to tell Garp is also using CoA because the shades of black emphasize it being used.

I think the same thing applies to Shanks and Whitebeard, but there's no visual indication of CoA also being used due to that not being emphasized with shades of black before the timeskip.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 11, 2017)

Suit said:


> yeah, his lack of presence in anything resembling a decent fight really makes him seem pathetic.
> 
> and while marco wasn't per se "losing" against them, he wasn't able to really do any damage to them. sure, he pushed them back a couple of times, but at the end of it all, he wasn't able to even bypass sakazuki's logia intang after the latter had taken an island splitter to the face. so there's a clear superiority of admirals over marco, but marco was an absolute trooper in holding his own against them.



To be fair, the admirals also can't damage Marco, considering he regenerates from their attacks. He has an incredible defense that can match their incredible offense. A distraction and combination attack from two characters with seastone involved were emphasized to take him down. Marco and Vista also attacked Akainu before Whitebeard put him down, by the way. Akainu being pushed back and fixated on Marco is how he got taken down by Whitebeard. Even though it can be argued that Marco and Vista didn't visibly damage Akainu, he clearly viewed them as a threat and singled them out as Haki users compared to commanders like Curiel who were completely helpless. Akainu's response to their combination attack would indicate discomfort. You can see that in how he reacted along with his expression. He didn't just shrug them off like nothing.

I agree that Vista wouldn't give Akainu more than a mid-diff fight, but Marco can play with guys on that level completely fine. He has the versatility and power to compete with the admirals.


----------



## trance (Jul 11, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> Garp was using both CoC and CoA in the clash with Chinjao. However, we're able to tell Garp is also using CoA because the shades of black emphasize it being used.



only difference being, Garp and Chinjao were actively trying to kill each other

by comparison, Shanks and Whitebeard's scenario was more or less just them demonstrating their disagreement on the discussed issue, albeit in a grandiose and powerful way


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 11, 2017)

Kyouko said:


> only difference being, Garp and Chinjao were actively trying to kill each other
> 
> by comparison, Shanks and Whitebeard's scenario was more or less just them demonstrating their disagreement on the discussed issue, albeit in a grandiose and powerful way



The fact that the two of them clashed makes it offensive in and of itself. Whitebeard was also trying to throw the gift that Shanks brought him right in his face. He was getting pretty aggressive before the clash. It just seems very strange to me for powerful figures like those two to not be serious when going into a clash like that.

It's not like throwing CoA into the mix would have made any difference. Because their CoC had been portrayed as equal, I can't imagine either of them overpowering the other with CoA.


----------



## Captain Altintop (Jul 11, 2017)

Mihawk beats Vista with mid ( mid ) difficulty.
Vista beats Zoro with mid ( high ) difficulty. 

Mihawk beats Zoro with low ( high ) difficulty, still low but close to mid.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 11, 2017)

Suit said:


> vista isn't holding off sakazuki for 10 hours
> 
> he and marco together couldn't even bypass the red dog's logia intangibility by the end of the war, and the admiral himself had taken an island-splitter to the face, so he was in really bad condition already. vista's just not gonna last.


 Vista fought against the WSS for 5ish minutes and left without a scratch on him.

Even if he can't last 10 hours, the point is that Mihawk vs Vista is nowhere long enough to say Mihawk isn't a top tier. Even if Vista could only last 30 minutes vs top tiers, there is nothing inconsistent with Vista leaving without a scratch after fighting for 5 minutes tops. You are heavily downplaying commanders. High and Top tiers have insane endurance and stamina. 

Mihawk has ample proof to be considered a top tier:

World's Strongest Swordsman in a manga with Shanks, Rayleigh, Fujitora, Shiliew, Vista, and Cracker.

Zoro's EoS enemy, which will be after he offs multiple Yonko first mates and an admiral(s). 

Has been implied by Oda himself to be able to be in a 1v1v1 with WB and Shanks.

Mihawk only needs one of those arguments to be true for him to be a top tier.


----------



## Dunno (Jul 11, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> How is Shanks not relying on Haki more than Luffy? There's nothing you can possibly gather from that statement.
> Are you telling me that Shanks' physical strength and sword were cracking ships, splitting the skies or making his sword not get destroyed by Whitebeard's bisento/melted by Akainu's magma? Luffy's Haki is fucking weak compared to his other abilities. The power from G4 mostly comes from his fruit abilities and physical stats that are increased due to unique abilities.
> 
> Shanks' CoC is not *"most likely" *better than Mihawk's. We know it's better based on what we've seen Shanks doing with CoC, not to mention that we don't even know if Mihawk has CoC. As for CoA, Shanks still has better feats than Mihawk. He clashed with the strongest version of Whitebeard we've seen in the manga with no inferiority. Unless you think neither of them were using CoA and just CoC, their Haki had been displayed as equal. It would be kind of strange for either of them to not be using Haki in a top-tier clash, though. I also think you just kind of use both Haki at the same time in those instances. There's no way to determine that, considering Oda didn't start using the shades of black to emphasize CoA until after the timeskip. CoO would be in Shanks' favor, too. He effortlessly avoided the bottle that Whitebeard threw at him, mocked him by finishing his own and then proceeded to clash with him. What makes the feat more intriguing is that Shanks could have been slightly drunk.
> ...


I can't prove that Shanks is a swordsman any more than you can prove that his CoC is better than Mihawk's. That's because neither of those things have been confirmed in the manga. We can only look at what evidence there is, and in both cases, the evidence leans heavily towards one side.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 11, 2017)

Dunno said:


> I can't prove that Shanks is a swordsman any more than you can prove that his CoC is better than Mihawk's. That's because neither of those things have been confirmed in the manga. We can only look at what evidence there is, and in both cases, the evidence leans heavily towards one side.



So you just admitted that there's no proof Shanks is considered a swordsman? That's exactly what I was looking for. You can't prove he's a swordsman due to the feats not suggesting he is, let alone the definition of swordsman. There's absolutely nothing that even hints at Mihawk having CoC, either. If I missed something, I'd like to know what it is.

I know. The evidence heavily leans toward Shanks being stronger than Mihawk. Only subjective reasoning would make an individual place Mihawk higher than Shanks in strength.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Dunno (Jul 11, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> So you just admitted that there's no proof Shanks is considered a swordsman? That's exactly what I was looking for. You can't prove he's a swordsman due to the feats not suggesting he is, let alone the definition of swordsman. There's absolutely nothing that even hints at Mihawk having CoC, either. If I missed something, I'd like to know what it is.
> 
> I know. The evidence heavily leans toward Shanks being stronger than Mihawk. Only subjective reasoning would make an individual place Mihawk higher than Shanks in strength.



Now you are just grasping for straws. Do you know what the difference between proof and evidence is? There is very little proof in One Piece. There's for example no proof that Kaido is stronger than Katakuri, but there is a lot of evidence. It the same when it comes to Shanks being a swordsman, or being able to use CoO, having better CoC than Crocodile, being stronger than Ben Beckmann, or whatever it could be. No proof, lots of evidence. 

Generally, you can't prove anything worth discussing in One Piece. What you can prove is the thing we have been shown on panel or that we have been told by Oda, for example that Kizaru is an admiral, that Luffy has a DF, that Mihawk is the WSS and that WB was the WSM. Most other things cannot be proven at all because there simply is no proof, so you shouldn't talk as if you had any proof at all concerning whether Shanks is a swordsman or not. 

Also, you can't sincerely state that you know that Shanks isn't a swordsman, just like I can't sincerely state that I know he is. So please stop implying certainty.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 11, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> So you just admitted that there's no proof Shanks is considered a swordsman? That's exactly what I was looking for. You can't prove he's a swordsman due to the feats not suggesting he is, let alone the definition of swordsman. There's absolutely nothing that even hints at Mihawk having CoC, either. If I missed something, I'd like to know what it is.
> I know. The evidence heavily leans toward Shanks being stronger than Mihawk. Only subjective reasoning would make an individual place Mihawk higher than Shanks in strength.


 You misunderstood his argument. His arguemnt is that we can't be 100% certian about anything outside of Oda himself saying so. We can only go where the evidence goes. In this case the evidence heavily points to Shanks being a swordsman and Mihawk not having CoC


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 11, 2017)

Dunno said:


> Now you are just grasping for straws. Do you know what the difference between proof and evidence is? There is very little proof in One Piece. There's for example no proof that Kaido is stronger than Katakuri, but there is a lot of evidence. It the same when it comes to Shanks being a swordsman, or being able to use CoO, having better CoC than Crocodile, being stronger than Ben Beckmann, or whatever it could be. No proof, lots of evidence.
> 
> Generally, you can't prove anything worth discussing in One Piece. What you can prove is the thing we have been shown on panel or that we have been told by Oda, for example that Kizaru is an admiral, that Luffy has a DF, that Mihawk is the WSS and that WB was the WSM. Most other things cannot be proven at all because there simply is no proof, so you shouldn't talk as if you had any proof at all concerning whether Shanks is a swordsman or not.
> 
> Also, you can't sincerely state that you know that Shanks isn't a swordsman, just like I can't sincerely state that I know he is. So please stop implying certainty.



You're the one grasping at straws and being intellectually dishonest. I'm starting to think you're the one that doesn't have a genuine understanding of English language. Proof is the product of evidence, and there's no evidence to suggest that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks. The feats certainly aren't there, while the portrayal definitely isn't there. It can be concluded that he is on Shanks' level due to Oda's statement, though I fail to see any evidence pointing at him being stronger. All evidence leans toward Shanks being stronger. Like I said, the feats and portrayal speak for themselves. If you want to continuously lie like I'm some idiot, be my guest. The material is right in front of me. I presume you're basing all of Mihawk's strength on a title, which is being misunderstood and viewed in some ignorant way. Whether or not that ignorance is because of subjectivity would be up to one's interpretation.

We can assume Kaidou is stronger than Katakuri because he's an emperor. The evidence is ample enough. Being WSS doesn't indicate that Mihawk is stronger than anyone with a sword when the title in and of itself doesn't mean that. He's the strongest individual who is skilled in wielding a sword. Shanks isn't considered a swordsman because the manga proof is already there. It doesn't take much to conclude that the product of Shanks' power is Haki, yet many posters just see a sword and decide he's a swordsman. That is deliberately and dishonestly avoiding the fact that Shanks' sword wasn't highlighted and wasn't the center of his feats. He also has shown CoO and used it against Whitebeard himself. Neither Mihawk nor Crocodile *ever* hinted at being capable of using Conqueror's Haki. The evidence isn't there... It was never implied... Anyone can learn CoA or CoO, so that evidence is there. Because of Mihawk's high level, he can obviously use both types of Haki. Conqueror's Haki is another story. You can't learn Conqueror's Haki. One can learn to improve it, but the ability doesn't show itself in every character.

All of the evidence is there. Even the proof is there. Proof is sufficient evidence, and there is sufficient evidence when it comes to this discussion. It doesn't take much to gather that information and reach this conclusion. The proof you're referring to would be something more concrete. As you said, it's hard to find something that absolute in this manga. Little evidence is something that would be implied and perhaps not shown, while feats and portrayal actually suggest proof because there's sufficient evidence to gather from it. There's more evidence pointing at Shanks being stronger, so you can't just go around and say there isn't.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 11, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> You're the one grasping at straws and being intellectually dishonest. I'm starting to think you're the one that doesn't have a genuine understanding of English language. Proof is the product of evidence, and there's no evidence to suggest that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks. The feats certainly aren't there, while the portrayal definitely isn't there. It can be concluded that he is on Shanks' level due to Oda's statement, though I fail to see any evidence pointing at him being stronger. All evidence leans toward Shanks being stronger. Like I said, the feats and portrayal speak for themselves. If you want to continuously lie like I'm some idiot, be my guest. The material is right in front of me. I presume you're basing all of Mihawk's strength on a title, which is being misunderstood and viewed in some ignorant way. Whether or not that ignorance is because of subjectivity would be up to one's interpretation.
> 
> We can assume Kaidou is stronger than Katakuri because he's an emperor. The evidence is ample enough. Being WSS doesn't indicate that Mihawk is stronger than anyone with a sword when the title in and of itself doesn't mean that. He's the strongest individual who is skilled in wielding a sword. Shanks isn't considered a swordsman because the manga proof is already there. It doesn't take much to conclude that the product of Shanks' power is Haki, yet many posters just see a sword and decide he's a swordsman. That is deliberately and dishonestly avoiding the fact that Shanks' sword wasn't highlighted and wasn't the center of his feats. He also has shown CoO and used it against Whitebeard himself. Neither Mihawk nor Crocodile *ever* hinted at being capable of using Conqueror's Haki. The evidence isn't there... It was never implied... Anyone can learn CoA or CoO, so that evidence is there. Because of Mihawk's high level, he can obviously use both types of Haki. Conqueror's Haki is another story. You can't learn Conqueror's Haki. One can learn to improve it, but the ability doesn't show itself in every character.
> 
> All of the evidence is there. Even the proof is there. Proof is sufficient evidence, and there is sufficient evidence when it comes to this discussion. It doesn't take much to gather that information and reach this conclusion. The proof you're referring to would be something more concrete. As you said, it's hard to find something that absolute in this manga. Little evidence is something that would be implied and perhaps not shown, while feats and portrayal actually suggest proof because there's sufficient evidence to gather from it. There's more evidence pointing at Shanks being stronger, so you can't just go around and say there isn't.


 One's Haki level has no bearing on whether somebody is a swordsman or not.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 11, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> You misunderstood his argument. His arguemnt is that we can't be 100% certian about anything outside of Oda himself saying so. We can only go where the evidence goes. In this case the evidence heavily points to Shanks being a swordsman and Mihawk not having CoC



It doesn't compute, man. I don't know where you're getting this evidence from. We can establish proof with sufficient evidence, but you're talking about something concrete. Not everything will be concrete. Refer to my previous response.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 11, 2017)

xmysticgohanx said:


> One's Haki level has no bearing on whether somebody is a swordsman or not.



That's why Shanks isn't considered a swordsman. His feats show that he's an absolute beast when using Haki. Mihawk's feats don't suggest raw use and incredible Haki. His Haki needs to be strong as a top-tier character in One Piece, but that doesn't mean his Haki is supreme.


----------



## Dunno (Jul 11, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> You're the one grasping at straws and being intellectually dishonest. I'm starting to think you're the one that doesn't have a genuine understanding of English language. Proof is the product of evidence, and there's no evidence to suggest that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks. The feats certainly aren't there, while the portrayal definitely isn't there. It can be concluded that he is on Shanks' level due to Oda's statement, though I fail to see any evidence pointing at him being stronger. All evidence leans toward Shanks being stronger. Like I said, the feats and portrayal speak for themselves. If you want to continuously lie like I'm some idiot, be my guest. The material is right in front of me. I presume you're basing all of Mihawk's strength on a title, which is being misunderstood and viewed in some ignorant way. Whether or not that ignorance is because of subjectivity would be up to one's interpretation.
> 
> We can assume Kaidou is stronger than Katakuri because he's an emperor. The evidence is ample enough. Being WSS doesn't indicate that Mihawk is stronger than anyone with a sword when the title in and of itself doesn't mean that. He's the strongest individual who is skilled in wielding a sword. Shanks isn't considered a swordsman because the manga proof is already there. It doesn't take much to conclude that the product of Shanks' power is Haki, yet many posters just see a sword and decide he's a swordsman. That is deliberately and dishonestly avoiding the fact that Shanks' sword wasn't highlighted and wasn't the center of his feats. He also has shown CoO and used it against Whitebeard himself. Neither Mihawk nor Crocodile *ever* hinted at being capable of using Conqueror's Haki. The evidence isn't there... It was never implied... Anyone can learn CoA or CoO, so that evidence is there. Because of Mihawk's high level, he can obviously use both types of Haki. Conqueror's Haki is another story. You can't learn Conqueror's Haki. One can learn to improve it, but the ability doesn't show itself in every character.
> 
> All of the evidence is there. Even the proof is there. Proof is sufficient evidence, and there is sufficient evidence when it comes to this discussion. It doesn't take much to gather that information and reach this conclusion. The proof you're referring to would be something more concrete. As you said, it's hard to find something that absolute in this manga. Little evidence is something that would be implied and perhaps not shown, while feats and portrayal actually suggest proof because there's sufficient evidence to gather from it. There's more evidence pointing at Shanks being stronger, so you can't just go around and say there isn't.



You cannot say that there is no evidence that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks. Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world and there is evidence for Shanks being a swordsman. You know this, so you are straight up lying if you claim that there is none. Also, Mihawk doesn't only have the in-universe title of "World's Strongest Swordsman", Oda has stated that he is the world's strongest swordsman, but I presume that you know this already.

We can assume that Kaido is stronger than Katakuri, but we can't prove it. Being the strongest swordsman in the world actually proves that you are stronger than anyone categorized by Oda as a swordsman. There is evidence for Shanks being categorized such, but there's no proof, since Oda hasn't given us a clear statement on it. There is much less evidence for Shanks not being a swordsman. There is no proof either way about Crocodile or Mihawk regarding CoC. There is evidence that at least Crocodile doesn't have it, since he lost to Luffy without showing it, but Mihawk could have it, as could a lot of other people. 

Proof implies certainty, and there is certainly no certainty in this matter. Sufficient evidence in this case is deliberately being held back by Oda in order to create ambiguity. So please stop talking about proof when there is none either way.


----------



## xmysticgohanx (Jul 11, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> That's why Shanks isn't considered a swordsman. His feats show that he's an absolute beast when using Haki. Mihawk's feats don't suggest raw use and incredible Haki. His Haki needs to be strong as a top-tier character in One Piece, but that doesn't mean his Haki is supreme.


 Shanks is an absolute beast when using Haki, I agree. That doesn't stop him from being a swordsman though


----------



## Monstar6 (Jul 12, 2017)

Shanks is swordsman, it was stated in the databook Red.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Esdese (Jul 13, 2017)

so that means mihawk is stronger 
kk case closed 
I can taste the salty tears of shank fanboys already.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Gohara (Jul 13, 2017)

Again though what's not being disputed is whether or not Shanks is also a swordsman but whether or not he's only a swordsman.  For example I consider Fujitora to be a swordsman but he's also a lot more than just a swordsman.  So while Mihawk is more skilled at swordsmanship specifically the title itself doesn't automatically make him more powerful than Fujitora in my opinion.  Although I do think that Mihawk is more powerful than Fujitora but for a different reason.

Mihawk might very well be => Shanks when it comes to swordsmanship specifically but Shanks might also excel in other aspects to the point of being a master at them.  I have no issue with other interpretations of the title but until the idea of Mihawk > all other characters who use a sword at all- even if they excel in other aspects- there are some characters that I hesitate to include in that title.  Especially when Whitebeard uses a Bisento which is classified as a sword in some weapon based books, Shanks is Luffy's benchmark to become Pirate King, Garp states that the Yonkou are the most powerful Pirates in the series, Old Whitebeard and Shanks have comparable portrayal, etc..  I also doubt that Vista can fight on par with even a distracted Shanks although there's no proof of that.


----------



## Dunno (Jul 14, 2017)

Gohara said:


> Again though what's not being disputed is whether or not Shanks is also a swordsman but whether or not he's only a swordsman.  For example I consider Fujitora to be a swordsman but he's also a lot more than just a swordsman.  So while Mihawk is more skilled at swordsmanship specifically the title itself doesn't automatically make him more powerful than Fujitora in my opinion.  Although I do think that Mihawk is more powerful than Fujitora but for a different reason.
> 
> Mihawk might very well be => Shanks when it comes to swordsmanship specifically but Shanks might also excel in other aspects to the point of being a master at them.  I have no issue with other interpretations of the title but until the idea of Mihawk > all other characters who use a sword at all- even if they excel in other aspects- there are some characters that I hesitate to include in that title.  Especially when Whitebeard uses a Bisento which is classified as a sword in some weapon based books, Shanks is Luffy's benchmark to become Pirate King, Garp states that the Yonkou are the most powerful Pirates in the series, Old Whitebeard and Shanks have comparable portrayal, etc..  I also doubt that Vista can fight on par with even a distracted Shanks although there's no proof of that.



If Fujitora is a swordsman, then Mihawk is *stronger* than him according to Oda. Oda hasn't said anything about skill, only strength. If Shanks is a swordsman, Mihawk is stronger than him. I recommend you read Mihawk's introduction again, it's really clear on the matter, and there's nothing there about skill.


----------



## Gohara (Jul 14, 2017)

Unless you're intending to imply that the statement is literal there is more than one possible meaning. If you are arguing that it's a literal statement then who's to say that it's not referring to physical strength specifically? Not that I'm arguing that it is, but either way the title is not clear cut whether you want to take the word literally or not. Plus even if you suggest that it's in reference to overall power it could still be summed up as being more powerful specifically at swordplay.

Even if it were clear cut there's still the question of who are and aren't included in the title. If non-sword related Abilities are irrelevant to a character's inclusion then there's still the question of Whitebeard who uses what is not only a polearm but also a sword. Additionally Whitebeard is around as powerful as Roger who uses a sword. There has been nothing stated about Roger being the most powerful of such characters which either suggests that Roger's use of a sword is not an automatic indicator of being included in such a title or that there is a character more powerful than Roger.

I'm not going to rule out any possibilities about the swordsmanship title. So I'm not necessarily saying that any claim is factually incorrect. However I dispute the idea that Mihawk is factually more powerful than Shanks based on an unclearly defined title that is ambiguous in it's inclusion of characters. I consider Shanks' comparable portrayal to Whitebeard, Shanks being who Roger trusts to lead the current generation of Pirates, Shanks being Luffy's benchmark to become Pirate King, Jozu groaning just being in Shanks' relaxed presence while not showing Mihawk that type of respect, Garp's statement that the Yonkou are the most powerful Pirates, etc. all to be more solid evidence than I do the swordsmanship title.

Even comparing their Abilities we can fairly assume that they are around the same level in terms of swordsmanship skills with Mihawk having an edge. Yet Shanks' Haki portrayal is significantly superior to Mihawk's so far.


----------



## Amol (Jul 17, 2017)

Zoro should be capable of landing one attack on Mihawk.
Come on now people don't sell him that small .
So by OP's stipulation Zoro wins.


----------



## Yuki (Jul 17, 2017)

Monstar6 said:


> Shanks is swordsman, it was stated in the databook Red.



No it was not. It said Shanks was good with a sword. Kizaru is good with a sword. Kuzan is good with a sword. Are they swordsmen?

Not saying he isn't one. Just saying that no such confirmation was given at all.


----------



## Monstar6 (Jul 17, 2017)

Yuki said:


> No it was not. It said Shanks was good with a sword. Kizaru is good with a sword. Kuzan is good with a sword. Are they swordsmen?
> 
> Not saying he isn't one. Just saying that no such confirmation was given at all.


 

*Translation: "*Shanks is a lefty, he was holding his weapon on his right. Great rival of Mihawk, He is a top class swordsman."

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Yuki (Jul 17, 2017)

Monstar6 said:


> *Translation: "*Shanks is a lefty, he was holding his weapon on his right. Great rival of Mihawk, He is a top class swordsman."



I stand corrected... I hate it when people give me wrong translations... -_-

But then again it also says he is a lefty and rival of Mihawk. But we know those too facts are no longer true.


----------



## Monstar6 (Jul 17, 2017)

Yuki said:


> But then again it also says he is a lefty and rival of Mihawk. But we know those too facts are no longer true.


He is still stated to be a rival to Mihawk in the databook deep blue and he is still a swordsman.


----------



## Yuki (Jul 17, 2017)

Monstar6 said:


> He is still stated to be a rival to Mihawk in the databook deep blue and he is still a swordsman.



Yes, but it's clearly talking about the past. Just like it states Shanks is left handed. But guess what no longer exists? As such no, we know they are not rivals. They refuse to fight. Rivals don't refuse to fight.

Plus, as it states, Shanks lost his prominent sword arm. Swordsmen never recover from that. All i am saying it's not impossible he actually got some kind of new power in that time and only uses a sword because it was once apart of him.


----------



## Geralt-Singh (Jul 17, 2017)

Shanks is absolutely not a swordsman, he uses a fake sword to trick enemies.
He is actually a cyborg shooting lasers from his eyes and giving head-butts.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


----------



## TheWiggian (Jul 17, 2017)

I also don't buy the fact that Shanks is a swordsman. He is clearly portrayed to be a hakiman. He can even walk on water by coating his feet with CoA. With his CoO he can predict the future and with his CoC he can stop time and destroy wooden planets.

Reactions: Funny 4


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 17, 2017)

Amol said:


> Zoro should be capable of landing one attack on Mihawk.
> Come on now people don't sell him that small .
> So by OP's stipulation Zoro wins.


Well Doflamingo can barley touch G4 Luffy and the attacks he can land do no damage. 

The gap between zoro and mihawk is a lot bigger then DD and G4 Luffy. So he honestly might not be able to land a hit


----------

