# Hit (DBS) vs JJBA verse



## ogreigniz (Apr 17, 2016)

Can Hit solo? 


Or Hit is high tier levels?


Discuss


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## Finalbeta (Apr 17, 2016)

Hit multiverse busts them


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## fyhb (Apr 17, 2016)

The absolute only chance JJBA is winning is if Pucci starts accelerating time to infinity before Hit destroys the universe


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## Geomancertactics (Apr 17, 2016)

Johnny oneshots him


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## Sablés (Apr 17, 2016)

Absolutely one chance?

Pucci instead of GER?


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## Blocky (Apr 17, 2016)

Just Why


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## ogreigniz (Apr 17, 2016)

> Pucci instead of GER?




Or Heaven Ascension Dio


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## Finalbeta (Apr 17, 2016)

SSB-KK Dio is needed


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## ogreigniz (Apr 17, 2016)

The first win of Hit's in the battledome is the JJBA verse, well, not bad


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## SkylineGTR (Apr 17, 2016)

Doesnt JJBA verse have that broken technique GER or something like that? Basically activates instantly and negates damage to 0 on a universal level? How is hit going to get past that?


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## Blocky (Apr 17, 2016)

He doesn't
He might beat MiH but not GER


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## ogreigniz (Apr 17, 2016)

Hit basically wins the 99% of the JJBA verse


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 17, 2016)

So is it safe to add this to Hit's victories list?


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## ogreigniz (Apr 17, 2016)

easily, defeating 99% of a verse is a win too, it can't be denied


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 17, 2016)

Copy that, new guy.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Apr 17, 2016)

He beats anyone that isnt GER because he's so ridiculously faster than the rest. speed equal quite a few people could beat him though


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 17, 2016)

He loses to GER and Pucci going full steam.

What would he do against Silver Chariot Requiem who can soul swap him, put him to sleep, and reflect his attacks? The first two happen the moment the fight starts.


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## Iwandesu (Apr 17, 2016)

Jjba verse has ger as part of it 
So no he doesnt solo


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## Sablés (Apr 17, 2016)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> He loses to GER and Pucci going full steam.
> 
> What would he do against Silver Chariot Requiem who can soul swap him, put him to sleep, and reflect his attacks? The first two happen the moment the fight starts.



He would freeze pucci in time and one-shot him

Silver chariot too unless that's an autonomous defense that exceeds 20 meters


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## XImpossibruX (Apr 17, 2016)

GER and Eyes of Heaven Dio would still destroy Hit.


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## Sablés (Apr 17, 2016)

DIO gets blitzed and one-shotted too

smh


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## XImpossibruX (Apr 17, 2016)

Liquid said:


> DIO gets blitzed and one-shotted too
> 
> smh



Even Eyes of Heaven Dio?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 17, 2016)

Liquid said:


> He would freeze pucci in time and one-shot him
> 
> Silver chariot too unless that's an autonomous defense that exceeds 20 meters



Going by the logic of the new episode, Pucci should be much faster than Goku and would be about to end the universe and still be moving nonetheless. He'd still be moving in that time stop and it was shown that even when he was just starting up, Jotaro's time stops which are superior to Hit's (as they are longer and have a universal range) were being affected.

Silver Chariot Requiem has planetary range and to quote the wiki



> Silver Chariot Requiem cannot be normally harmed by attacks due to it being a projection of one's very soul, meaning all abilities used on it will be directed right back to the user. When activated by default, this Stand sends all beings into a 8 hour sleep where their souls are switched with the nearest being to them, while the person's body may change, their powers remain with them. However, if one were to lose their body during this time, when the effects were reversed they would die along with the soul within their body, unless the body is healed of course. It keeps moving forward for eternity (ala Juggernaut). The final and most terrible ability of Chariot Requiem is that it forces all beings to evolve into disturbing beasts of a possible future.



Basically Hit would be knocked out for 8 hours, have his soul swapped with someone if there is someone to swap with (Polnareff), and SCR is immune to attacks and they damage Hit instead.


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## Sherlōck (Apr 17, 2016)

What's stopping Hit from grinding JJBA verse into fine dust before they even open their eyes?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 17, 2016)

All of the characters I mentioned for the reasons I mentioned.


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## Sherlōck (Apr 17, 2016)

I didn't know JJBA verse was billion times FTL.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 17, 2016)

Sherlōck said:


> I didn't know JJBA verse was billion times FTL.



One of them exists outside of time and can move in time that has been erased and doesn't exist on a univeral scale (this is beyond a conventional time stop) and can reduce his oppnent's will and actions to zero before they even happen, the second one has literally infinite speed and is a moment away from resetting the universe merely from moving time fast enough (time stop won't work due to this as the limit will instantly be reached and Pucci is moving faster than Goku), and the third has an ability that puts him to sleep for 8 hours and soulfucks him the moment the fight starts and all damage dealt to it will damage Hit.


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## Sablés (Apr 17, 2016)

XImpossibruX said:


> Even Eyes of Heaven Dio?



Especially Eyes of Heaven Dio.



MusubiKazesaru said:


> Going by the logic of the new episode, Pucci should be much faster than Goku and would be about to end the universe and still be moving nonetheless. He'd still be moving in that time stop and it was shown that even when he was just starting up, Jotaro's time stops which are superior to Hit's (as they are longer and have a universal range) were being affected.



Pretty sure Jotaro actually froze his ass in time but couldn't deliver the finishing blow because of his daughteru (As usual he needed to be nerfed not to take it alone ) Pucci has infinite acceleration, doesn't mean he starts out faster than DB-God tiers. If the universe still moves, he'd make it a draw at best.





> Basically Hit would be knocked out for 8 hours, have his soul swapped with someone if there is someone to swap with (Polnareff), and SCR is immune to attacks and they damage Hit instead.



>Immune

Classic NLF

Getting knocked out is a pain though. Have no idea how sleep effects are treated here oddly enough.


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## Sablés (Apr 17, 2016)

Also damn sure SCR's abilities are erratic as hell. If not for that, they would never have caught it.

Last moments of VA and SO were so weird.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 17, 2016)

They're re-translating VA from what I hear, so maybe that will clear some things up, but the reason why it is immune to damage is because SCR is a reflection of everyone's soul and attacking it normally won't damage it and instead damage the attacker. It's not a NFL, it's some kind of soul fuck.

In the case of MiH. I'm talking about Pucci once his acceleration is complete. By that time, time will be moving too quickly for time stops and Pucci will be moving faster as he can exist in that time normally. Time stops do work while MiH is accelerating, but as the acceleration went on, it got less effective and shorter. Like I said this is MiH going full throttle and about to complete its universal reset. This is me being very specific so that Pucci can win


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## Xhominid (Apr 18, 2016)

Since the topic where Heaven Ascension DIO's feats was shown, there was one moment that bugged the crap out of me that I just want to let out:

We see HA DIO block Tusk IV with his fists, cancel out GER...but why the Punch from Jotaro really mattered? But then I read back on TvTropes and it made sense. Jotaro hit him in the exact spot that pretty much guaranteed the win without Joseph's blood and he was able to basically tank the effects from having your skull fracture to such an extent.

Always learn something new...

But anyways yeah Hit should easily be able to ALMOST solo the universe past maybe 2-4 troublemakers.


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## RidleyMan (Apr 18, 2016)

If we're using Heaven DIO who's canon status is very dubious then what about Novel Kars and said Stands from that novel? Such as MIH Requiem or Killer Queen Requiem?


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## Finalbeta (Apr 18, 2016)

Hit can half-universe bust

He's strong


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## cingetorix (Apr 18, 2016)

GER resets his existence to zero.
does that make sense?


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## King Diablo (Apr 19, 2016)

Hit rapes.


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## Finalbeta (Apr 19, 2016)

A wave of hand of the Hitman is enough 
Seriously


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## Zhen Chan (Apr 19, 2016)

Notorious BIG casually beats Hit to death

Canon


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## Montanz (Apr 19, 2016)

GER is a walking NLF.
If his ability to negate effects is only Universal there is no reason to believe he would be able to negeta Hit's most casual attacks.
Considering even SSJG Goku could destroy the realms outside of the universe.


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## Blocky (Apr 19, 2016)

Montanz said:


> GER is a walking NLF.
> If his ability to negate effects is only Universal there is no reason to believe he would be able to negeta Hit's most casual attacks.
> Considering even SSJG Goku could destroy the realms outside of the universe.



Hit is like only universal as well, there's no way he can't go around with GER's hax who could turn everything of him into 0 and make him died a infinite deaths.


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## Iwandesu (Apr 19, 2016)

This doesnt mean anything 
Hit has no resistance to his hax nor is outside the concept of time to attack before him
So he dies regardless of his power


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 19, 2016)

No soul fuck resistance either and he wouldn't hold up to Pucci at full throttle.


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## Clutch (Apr 19, 2016)

Ki/chi wielding characters should be resistant to soul hax if the hax user is weaker than them.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 19, 2016)

Why is that and when have they dealt with soul fuckery on a planetary scale before?


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## Clutch (Apr 19, 2016)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Why is that and when have they dealt with soul fuckery on a planetary scale before?



Akira Toriyama has described ki as spiritual power, if a soul has enough power to destroy the universe; planetary-scale soul thievery should be a non factor.

Akin to a candy thief who steals from babies trying to steal candy from God.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 19, 2016)

that is some amazing fanon


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## SF latif (Apr 19, 2016)

akira`s statement on Ki


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## Clutch (Apr 19, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> that is some amazing fanon



Actually...



> What is the key to winning in battle?





Toriyama said:


> *In battle, the most important thing is the size of your ki, and your control over it*. Ki as a concept of course includes such *spiritual powers* as energy [genki], courage [yūki], and right-mindedness [shōki]11. No matter how much you train, there are limits to physical strength, and the only way to overcome that is through ki. I think Goku was able to approach the mightiest warriors in the universe through strengthening his ki.


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## Montanz (Apr 19, 2016)

Silver Chariot Requiem has no offensive capabilities that would inmediatly put down Hit or anyone for that matter.
Swapping his body for another one ad infinitum hardly counts as a win, and unless you want to assume Hit is  retarded there is no way for him to NOT eventually find out how to defeat it.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 19, 2016)

King Enma had to give Vegeta his body back in the Buu Saga

that wouldn't have been needed if their souls were equivalent to their physical body, power and all

so yeah, "universal soul" is a crock of shit and is something that would've been met with derisive laughter years ago, rightfully so


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## Clutch (Apr 19, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> King Enma had to give Vegeta his body back in the Buu Saga
> 
> that wouldn't have been needed if their souls were equivalent to their physical body, power and all
> 
> so yeah, "universal soul" is a crock of shit and is something that would've been met with derisive laughter years ago and rightfully so



Vegeta had his body taken because he was technically evil. DB obviously has in-universe rules about the afterlife. Him not having his body had nothing to do with his power. Hence, Goku kept his body because he was a Hero. 

If what you say about how this fact would have been received years ago is true, then I am glad people are a lot more intelligent now than they were back then. You are linking two separate details that have nothing to do with each other so that you can dispute a direct quote from the series creator. Unacceptable.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 19, 2016)

Montanz said:


> Silver Chariot Requiem has no offensive capabilities that would inmediatly put down Hit or anyone for that matter.
> Swapping his body for another one ad infinitum hardly counts as a win, and unless you want to assume Hit is  retarded there is no way for him to NOT eventually find out how to defeat it.



SCR swaps Hit and Polnareffs souls and then both are knocked out for 8 hours. That's already a win. Also Hit's attacks will damage himself if he goes for SCR and Polnareff will be in his body...so yeah good luck having him beat Polnareff like that.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Apr 19, 2016)

> so yeah, "universal soul" is a crock of shit and is something that would've been met with derisive laughter years ago and rightfully so



pretty much this

DB characters are still hilariously vulnerable to esoteric abilities, which is something JJBA has in spades. Hit gets put down by any high tier stand user with hax of note.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 19, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> Vegeta had his body taken because he was technically evil. Him not having his body had nothing to do with his power.



I like how you're proving my point of the souls of DBZ characters not being in any way equal or even comparable to the powers of their physical bodies



> Hence, Goku kept his body because he was a Hero.



Goku kept his body because it was his reward and was allowed to have it, otherwise he'd just be like any other fluffy fragile soul

Kami had to take Goku's body to King Enma right after Raditz killed him



> If what you say about how this fact would have been received years ago is true, then I am glad people are a lot more intelligent now than they were back then.





there was some dumb shit years ago that we thankfully got rid of, but this is the sort of thing that deserves mockery


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## SF latif (Apr 19, 2016)

i think people don`t get the contest of akira`s word on ki 
toriyama said, Ki is powered by three concepts, vegeta when he lost his physicall body he would still lack two other concept of it


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## Tonathan100 (Apr 19, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> Vegeta had his body taken because he was technically evil. DB obviously has in-universe rules about the afterlife. Him not having his body had nothing to do with his power. Hence, Goku kept his body because he was a Hero.
> 
> If what you say about how this fact would have been received years ago is true, then I am glad people are a lot more intelligent now than they were back then. You are linking two separate details that have nothing to do with each other.



Stop bullshitting. Equating "spiritual" energy with souls and resistance to soul manipulation is hilarious and baseless equivocation. We have no reason to believe that in Dragon Ball, the amount of ki you have equals your resistance to soul manipulation, especially since bodyless souls are essentially powerless in the manga.


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## Clutch (Apr 19, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I like how you're proving my point of the souls of DBZ characters not being in any way equal or even comparable to the powers of their physical bodies
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. If you say so...

2. _"That's, leik, your opinion man."_

3. Sure...


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 19, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> pretty much this
> 
> DB characters are still hilariously vulnerable to esoteric abilities, which is something JJBA has in spades. Hit gets put down by any high tier stand user with hax of note.



While Hit is vulnerable to hax like Heaven's Door for instance, even stands with an A for speed will be out-sped by him so it's basically down to MiH (once it gets going), GER, and SCR. Or at least I'm pretty sure DBS is beyond 3 digit FTL.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 19, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> 1. If you say so...



so, why would Vegeta's body being taken away from him count as a punishment if his soul is supposedly just as strong as it?


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## Clutch (Apr 19, 2016)

Tonathan100 said:


> Stop bullshitting. Equating "spiritual" energy with souls and resistance to soul manipulation is hilarious and baseless equivocation. We have no reason to believe that in Dragon Ball, the amount of ki you have equals your resistance to soul manipulation, especially since bodyless souls are essentially powerless in the manga.



So you are telling me that you think a planeteray soul rip will work on a soul that can generate enough power to destroy the universe?

I suppose you think Captain Ginyu's Body swap will work on anyone if it hits, as long as they don't have that specific hax? That sounds ridiculous, but if that's the rules of this site, than lol fine.


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## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

Sorry for the double post.


Crimson Dragoon said:


> so, why would Vegeta's body being taken away from him count as a punishment if his soul is supposedly just as strong as it?



Because those are the specific rules of DB's afterlife, wtf?! Are you saying that a ghost who is bound to the afterlife should not be bound to the afterlife...as ghost?

Obviously, no one is exempt from that rule, no matter how powerful they are. Seriously...


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> Because those are the specific rules of DB's afterlife, wtf?!
> 
> Obviously, no one is exempt from that rule, no matter how powerful they are. Seriously...



so, you're agreeing with me or...


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## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> so, you're agreeing with me or...


No...

What I am saying about the Vegeta bit you brought up is; a soul without a body is a ghost. A soul with all the power in the world is still a ghost that can't touch anything. How is that not punishment?

Are you implying that, somehow, Vegeta should have raised Hell as some kind of planet busting poltergeist? He is *incorporeal*, *dead*, and bound to the after life...his power does him no good.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Apr 20, 2016)

German U-boats ain't got shit on this level of torpedoing


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## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

I just realized something. The whole Vegeta not having a body while dead thing is filler. 

Canon let's you keep your body while dead, even if your bad (Freeza RoF). Well, this discussion has been pointless.


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## Montanz (Apr 20, 2016)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> SCR swaps Hit and Polnareffs souls and then both are knocked out for 8 hours. That's already a win. Also Hit's attacks will damage himself if he goes for SCR and Polnareff will be in his body...so yeah good luck having him beat Polnareff like that.



That'd work if SCR took effect instantly except it doesn't.
The fact remains that hit is billions of times faster than what SC has shown, chances are Hit would've already figured out how to defeat it by the time it tried to swap bodies.

And even assuming the bodies swapped It's not like polnareff could make use of Hit's powers, Ginyu failed to do that with Goku and they were very close in powerlevels when it happened.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 20, 2016)

Montanz said:


> That'd work if SCR took effect instantly except it doesn't.
> The fact remains that hit is billions of times faster than what SC has shown, chances are Hit would've already figured out how to defeat it by the time it tried to swap bodies.
> 
> And even assuming the bodies swapped It's not like polnareff could make use of Hit's powers, Ginyu failed to do that with Goku and they were very close in powerlevels when it happened.



It is instant. It happens the moment it appears.

I'm not even saying Polnareff will make use of Hit's powers. I'm saying that Hit in Polnareff's body won't be able to do anything to Polnareff in Hit's body.


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## TeenRyu (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> So you are telling me that you think a planeteray soul rip will work on a soul that can generate enough power to destroy the universe?
> 
> I suppose you think Captain Ginyu's Body swap will work on anyone if it hits, as long as they don't have that specific hax? That sounds ridiculous, but if that's the rules of this site, than lol fine.



Using Captian ginyu's attack as a reference only makes you seem more like an idiot..  


You do realize that DBZ characters are weak to soul effecting attacks in general right? Nobody has any real soulfucking ability to note; only things like ginyu. 

Hell, Jack rakan could technically kill some DBZ characters with His soul fucking technique. So yeah. 




Hit looses to anyone with notable hax.


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## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

TeenRyu said:


> Using Captian ginyu's attack as a reference only makes you seem more like an idiot..
> 
> 
> You do realize that DBZ characters are weak to soul effecting attacks in general right? Nobody has any real soulfucking ability to note; only things like ginyu.
> ...


I am entertained by your unnecessary hostility and quite tickled that you didn't even address what I asked about Ginyu.

I mean, if the rules of this website would allow him to take the body of a character that's a billion times stronger than him because they don't have the hax to defend,  then those are the rules.

I find it hilarious,  but that's neither here nor there. Lol Name calling right off top, we have ourselves a real classy fella, right here.  The internet is so amazing. Everyone on it, but me, has something deep up their asses. You folks should try yoga.


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## Roggiano (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> I am entertained by your unnecessary hostility and quite tickled that you didn't even address what I asked about Ginyu.
> 
> I mean, if the rules of this website would allow him to take the body of a character that's a billion times stronger than him because they don't have the hax to defend,  then those are the rules.
> 
> I find it hilarious,  but that's neither here nor there. Lol Name calling right off top, we have ourselves a real classy fella, right here.  The internet is so amazing. Everyone on it but me has something deep up their asses.


A lot of members are openly hostile, usually for entertainment.  Rarely do they ever actually mean it.

Anyways, it is pretty much the "rule" (more like a general consensus) in the OBD that soul hax is independent from how strong a character is.  Soul hax isn't linked to any physical stats (usually), which means that regardless of how strong a character is, they have no resistance until proven otherwise.  Same thing with various things we consider hax here, like time-stop, mindfuck, etc.  We can only compare what has a common basis.


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## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

I see the reasoning behind time stop being independent of the Intended target's power.

But something like mindraping a guy who has TK that can crush the universe into the size of an atom just becsuse he's never dealt with mind wiping before sounds far outside any bounds of reason, to me. Especially if the mind wiper has only been shown using his power on regular humans. But who am I to disagree with the standards of an entire community?


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## AzureDaora (Apr 20, 2016)

Hax is hax because it invalidates how physically strong a character is as long as said character hasn't shown any resistance to it or anything similar.

A Time stop from some street-level punk will still work against a DBZ character even if he's universal; if we disregard that said DBZ character can blitz street-level punk and street-level punk can't damage a universal even if he time-stopped.
It's the same with other resistances in real life. Maybe you can tank a punch in the gut, but can you resist temperature as cold as the Mt.Everest?
Most forms of Hax are the same, especially soul-fucking.


ColumbianDrugLord said:


> I see the reasoning behind time stop being independent of the Intended target's power.
> 
> But something like mindraping a guy who has TK that can crush the universe into the size of an atom just becsuse he's never dealt with mind wiping before sounds far outside any bounds of reason, to me. Especially if the mind wiper has only been shown using his power on regular humans. But who am I to disagree with the standards of an entire community?


Except it's not a mind-fuck. It's Soul manipulation.

And again, he may be able to resist a galaxy-level punches and dish out the same, but how is that even connected to your mind or soul? 
Simple. It's not.
It's a non-sequitur. Your premise does not equate to your conclusion.


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## Roggiano (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> I see the reasoning behind time stop being independent of the Intended target's power.
> 
> But something like mindraping a guy who has TK that can crush the universe into the size of an atom just becsuse he's never dealt with mind wiping before sounds far outside any bounds of reason, to me. Especially if the mind wiper has only been shown using his power on regular humans. But who am I to disagree with the standards of an entire community?


Ah, TK?  That's a case by case basis.  As an example in the case of Espers, where their powers are generally because of their mind, they are considered to have resistance to mindraping... so how good they are with TK can be comparable to how resistant they are to mind raping (unless it's also shown that offensive abilities of an esper is not equal to their defensive abilities/resistance... which, of course, is why we go case by case with series).

However, say, TK through magic?  Not comparable.

Again though, key thing there is case by case since not all series regard common abilities the same way and such.  Of course, I suppose you can say this is a common thing to debate in VS forums, how to interpret feats and and statements and all those things in a series.

edit:
@AzureDaora
His response about mindrape is relation to my previous post.  I made a comment about the soul hax and then made note of a few other hax, such as mindrape.


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## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

AzureDaora said:


> Hax is hax because it invalidates how physically strong a character is as long as said character hasn't shown any resistance to it or anything similar.
> 
> A Time stop from some street-level punk will still work against a DBZ character even if he's universal; if we disregard that said DBZ character can blitz street-level punk and street-level punk can't damage a universal even if he time-stopped.
> It's the same with other resistances in real life. Maybe you can tank a punch in the gut, but can you resist temperature as cold as the Mt.Everest?
> ...


It's the same thing. A mind rapist would be attacking a mind that's proven to be far outside anything he's ever used the hax on. The mind is capable of incredible universal TK.

A soul rapist would be raping a soul that's far and away beyond anything he's ever used it on. The soul produces enough chi/ki to blow up a universe. Ki orgiantes from the user's spirit/soul.

You all are essentially saying that Hit is producing nuclear reactor energy, running on 2 AAA battery power. The specific thing the hax is attacking is very potent, the hax itself has not been used at that level of potency. I understand you all's logic, I just find it unreasonable,  personally.


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## AzureDaora (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> It's the same thing. A mind rapist would be attacking a mind that's proven to be far outside anything he's ever used the hax on. The mind is capable of incredible universal TK.
> 
> A soul rapist would be raping a soul that's far and away beyond anything he's ever used it on. The soul produces enough chi/ki to blow up a universe. Ki orgiantes from the user's spirit/soul.
> 
> I understand you all's logic, I just find it unreasonable,  personally.



And I thought that you equating strength of Ki as "spiritual energy" to resistance to soul-fucking was equivocation.
And no, that's not how it works. What you can dish out isn't equal to what you can resist.
Glass Cannons exist for that reason.


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## Roggiano (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> It's the same thing. A mind rapist would be attacking a mind that's proven to be far outside anything he's ever used the hax on. The mind is capable of incredible universal TK.
> 
> A soul rapist would be raping a soul that's far and away beyond anything he's ever used it on. The soul produces enough chi/ki to blow up a universe. Ki orgiantes from the user's spirit/soul.
> 
> The specific thing the hax is attacking is very potent, the hax itself has not been used at that level of potency. I understand you all's logic, I just find it unreasonable, personally.


I already responded to the thing about the mindraping in my previous post.

As for the soul... first of all, the soul is not always the source that produces chi/ki in a series.  And on top of that, not all series treat soul raping as the same, as well as the properties of the soul.  That's why, again, we don't have a catch-all and we try to go case-by-case and see how abilities, resistances to certain hax, etc. will compare with the current standards we have.

Also, the thing about what the hax is affecting being potent... well, that then begs the question of what is it potent in?  Again, we can't compare souls to ki/chi (unless proven otherwise in series or we have a reason to believe it is so).

Anyways, I do understand where you're coming from but I'm personally fond of how the OBD does things.  Might be due to my years lurking here though...


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## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

You all are essentially saying that Hit is producing nuclear reactor energy while running on 2 AAA battery power.

I don't even think Hit can solo JJ, but I find the above position to be untenable.


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## TeenRyu (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> I am entertained by your unnecessary hostility and quite tickled that you didn't even address what I asked about Ginyu.
> 
> I mean, if the rules of this website would allow him to take the body of a character that's a billion times stronger than him because they don't have the hax to defend,  then those are the rules.
> 
> I find it hilarious,  but that's neither here nor there. Lol Name calling right off top, we have ourselves a real classy fella, right here.  The internet is so amazing. Everyone on it, but me, has something deep up their asses. You folks should try yoga.



Fun fact: in the docile and nice one  

And there was no reason to answer what was asked of ginyu, since 

1- I couldn't be bothered with the argument. His ability is straight forward, simple in understanding and usage. Should be able to figure out any difficulties about it with no issues. 

2-I'm addressing your thought that Physical supplements the spiritual/mental strength against attacks, which everyone is telling you doesn't work.

For instance, person A who is physically stronger than person B, is hitting Person B with physical attacks. Person B retaliates by using a move which removes the soul from the body, (a generic soul fucking ability). From what your saying person A, although he has not shown abilities or resistance to such moves can use his physical powers to "resist" something that bypasses physical. 

Same goes for Ki and soul. Your Ki can POSSIBLY help, but only if you actually know what the fuck your doing. nobody in DBZ knows how to do that shit. Therefore.. Your current predicament in which we tell you you're wrong.


----------



## Montanz (Apr 20, 2016)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> It is instant. It happens the moment it appears.



It isn't.
See chapter where it first appears, after getting struck by the arrow Diavolo starts talking to it for few good seconds before it even takes effect.
At best you can assume it can be activated as fast as SC is able to react which is still millions of times slower than Hit.



MusubiKazesaru said:


> I'm not even saying Polnareff will make use of Hit's powers. I'm saying that Hit in Polnareff's body won't be able to do anything to Polnareff in Hit's body.



He doesn't actually have to, punching the light behind his back would reverse the effects.

All in all this fight comes down to wether or not Hit can figure out what he needs to do, and considering how much of a genius he is hyped up to be it's unlikely that he won't,, from his perspective he also has more than enough time to do so before it even takes effect.


----------



## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

TeenRyu said:


> Fun fact: in the docile and nice one
> 
> And there was no reason to answer what was asked of ginyu, since
> 
> ...



Ki does not emanate from a physical source. It is energy produced from a spiritual power. 

You are literally saying the energy Hit produces comes from a power that is logically not possible. You can't get sun level energy from a D battery. That's all I'm saying.


----------



## Roggiano (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> You all are essentially saying that Hit is producing nuclear reactor energy while running on 2 AAA battery power.
> 
> I don't even think Hit can solo JJ, but I find the above position to be untenable.



Hmm.  It seems we're not getting to you if that's how you're thinking.

So if you'll allow me to try to explain it to you again:

-Not all ki/chi comes from the soul in a series (sometimes it can come from the physical body, sometimes it's unexplained... in the cases where it's unexplained, I do not believe we default ki/chi coming from the soul)
-In the event that ki/chi is independent from the soul in a series, then that means they aren't comparable
-If they aren't comparable, this means we cannot use how strong someone is with ki/chi as a valid reason to resist soul fucking

Now, I haven't watched DBS so I don't know how this would apply to them but from what everyone else seems to be saying, Hit's strength (which I presume comes from ki) is not applicable in his defense against soul fucking.


----------



## AzureDaora (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> You all are essentially saying that Hit is producing nuclear reactor energy while running on 2 AAA battery power.
> 
> I don't even think Hit can solo JJ, but I find the above position to be untenable.


Can a nuclear missile tank a nuclear explosion?
Can a tank, well, tank a tank shell?
For something more similar to this scenario, can a fire-bender tank fire bending?

"Running on and producing" something and resisting it is a whole different story.

This scenario is, in fact, even worse for him since Hit can't soul-fuck. Ki doesn't give him any resistance to it whatsoever, as we've said countless times before.


----------



## Skye S (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> You all are essentially saying that Hit is producing nuclear reactor energy while running on 2 AAA battery power.
> 
> I don't even think Hit can solo JJ, but I find the above position to be untenable.



Keep in mind lolfiction


----------



## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

AzureDaora said:


> Can a nuclear missile tank a nuclear explosion?
> Can a tank, well, tank a tank shell?
> For something more similar to this scenario, can a fire-bender tank fire bending?
> 
> ...



Your examples are not representative of what I'm actually trying to convey. 

A random soul-fucker is like a car magnet sitting in a junk yard that attracts iron. 

Hit's soul is like a piece of iron.

Problem is, this piece of iron that is Hit's soul, is sitting on the moon.

The iron has no magnetic resistance, but it is just too far beyond the magnet's range. Hit's soul is as powerful as the iron is far away. 

Are we just assuming that the magnet is strong enough to pull a piece of iron from the moon, because it's a magnet? If those are the rules, then fine. But I, in good conscious, would never feel comfortable making a leap that big. I will probably just do better in refraining from VS threads.


----------



## Roggiano (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> Your examples are not representative of what I'm actually trying to convey.
> 
> A random soul-fucker is like a car magnet sitting in a junk yard that attracts iron.
> 
> ...


And once more, you're confusing what we're trying to tell you.

That idea that the distance between piece of iron, which is metaphorically Hit's soul in your example, and the car magnet, which is in this case a soul fucker, is what I presume you consider the difference in strength between the random soul fucker and Hit.

If this is correct, then you're not grasping what we're trying to tell you.  That strength should be completely independent from the soul unless proven otherwise.  If it's independent from the soul, then that means we cannot use it when we compare the soul fucker's ability to the resistance the soul has.  It has NO place in this comparison.

In your terms of a metaphorical example, this means that the distance between the piece of iron and the magnet should NOT be equivalent to the difference in strength between Hit and a soul fucker.  It is as simple as that.

That is the basis we operate on unless we have reason to believe otherwise.  How strong a character is is independent from their resistance to being soul fucked.


----------



## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

I get what you are saying, I always have.

You are saying Ki has little to do with the soul. I am saying Akira Toriyama called ki spiritual power. Spirit is a direct synonym for soul. 

You think Ki is a measure of strength. I'm saying it's a measure of soul. We will have to agree to disagree, but I get where you are coming from, though.


----------



## AzureDaora (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> Your examples are not representative of what I'm actually trying to convey.
> 
> A random soul-fucker is like a car magnet sitting in a junk yard that attracts iron.
> 
> ...


But that's circular reasoning. Your assuming that Hit's strength makes his enemy out his league in terms of "magnetizing" him. It's not. 
Expanding your analogy, it is not the where the iron will be located that is changed, but the Iron's power and strength, or "toughness" as it is.
No matter how tough and durable it is, it's still iron therefore affected by magnets. It's not on the moon. 

I concluded the same as Roggiano from your analogy and it doesn't work since both are independent from each other, as was said.


ColumbianDrugLord said:


> I get what you are saying, I always have.
> 
> You are saying Ki has little to do with the soul. I am saying Akira Toriyama called ki spiritual power. Spirit is a direct synonym for soul.
> 
> You think Ki is a measure of strength. I'm saying it's a measure of soul. We will have to agree to disagree, but I get where you are coming from, though.


And again, that's equivocation.
Not only that, it's also non-sequitur.
1. Equivocation because "spiritual power" is not equal to soul.
2. Non-sequitur because the strength of your "spiritual power" does not conclude that you cannot be affected by weaker spiritual attacks, implying that "spiritual power" is equal to soul.
If you don't think it's equivocation, prove it.


----------



## Roggiano (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> I get what you are saying, I always have.
> 
> You are saying Ki has little to do with the soul. I am saying Akira Toriyama called ki spiritual power. Spirit is a direct synonym for soul.
> 
> You think Ki is a measure of strength. I'm saying it's a measure of soul. We will have to agree to disagree, but I get where you are coming from, though.



I see, I see.  That being said, Akira Toriyama never called ki spiritual power or spirit energy.  That was in the English versions of DBZ.  I do believe that, in the context of DBZ, ki was more akin to life force and was more a tangible type of energy (hence why ki blasts and all that).

Unless that changed in DBS, then I still don't see how, in the DB world, ki equals a measure of soul, as you say.

edit:
To add on top of what AzureDaora says, do remember we're using translations.  This makes it even more difficult to properly determine whether or not ki in DB is part of the soul or not.


----------



## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

_Akira Toriyama_

_"In battle, the most important thing is the size of your ki, and your control over it.* Ki as a concept of course includes such spiritual powers as energy* [genki], courage [yūki], and right-mindedness [shōki]11. *No matter how much you train, there are limits to physical strength, and the only way to overcome that is through ki.* I think Goku was able to approach the mightiest warriors in the universe through strengthening his ki."_



_
"In the Dragon Ball World, *ki is a sort of life-energy found in all living things, even planets and stars. *This idea is based off of the concept of ki (or alternatively “chi” or “qi”) found in various Eastern religions, but exaggerated greatly to match Dragon Ball‘s cartoonish atmosphere." _




*qi*
[chœ]
*noun, Pinyin.*
_1.(in traditional Chinese medicine and philosophy) *the vital life force that flows through the body* and is supposedly regulated by acupuncture._

*spir·it*
_ˈspirit/
noun
noun: spirit; plural noun: spirits
_
_ 1.the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; *the soul.*
*synonyms:	soul*, psyche, (inner) self, inner being, inner man/woman, mind, ego, id;
_

*soul*
sōl/
noun
noun: soul; plural noun: souls

_1.*the spiritual* or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.
_
Spiritual power is *literally* a synonym of soul potency. I'm not seeing how this is a _"non-sequitur"_. You are *literally* claiming ki to be the *exact* opposite of what the creator just said it was and the *exact* opposite of what the English dictionary says it is. If you guys are using your own special definitions to define terms then there is nothing I can do about that. Those are the rules and that's okay.


----------



## AzureDaora (Apr 20, 2016)

>.>
Do you know "soul-fucking" is? Heck, do you know what equivocation is?
You just literally stated a direct example of equivocation. Here, let me use the example on OBD Wiki:

"This is when someone uses two different meanings of a word to imply something that isn't necessarily true.

Example: "In Bleach, Arrancars use the 'Sonido' speed technique. 'Sonido' means sound in Spanish, therefore Arrancars move at the speed of sound."

This argument assumes that the word sound in this context means the same as the speed of sound, when that is not necessarily true."


Soul-fucks and other soul attacks disregard durability. Soul attacks hit the soul, not the physical body.
Ki blasts do nothing of that. 
Now, other than semantics, anything else to prove that Ki makes you resistant to soul fucking?


----------



## Roggiano (Apr 20, 2016)

Synonym does not mean it's the same.  There is a difference and we do have to take note of that.

Second thing is do you see that definition with "qi"?  "The vital life force that flows through the body and is supposedly regulated by acupuncture".  I don't see how that's related to the spirit at all.  If anything, it only reinforces the idea that, in DB, ki is essentially the life force, not exactly related to spirit.

And before you throw at me those translations again, let me tell you something:
Akira Toriyama uses 気 (ki).  That does not inherently mean spirit.  Rather, I've always found it to represent the state of the body, mind, "spirit", etc. pending on what kanji is also paired with it.  Hence why we have words like 元気 (genki), which means energetic or healthy.  If Akira Toriyama wanted to directly reference the soul, then he could have used something like �☻� (tamashii), which literally means soul (or spirit... but spirit in the sense of soul, not spirit in the sense of the state someone is in).

I've been studying Japanese for 3 and a half years so unless you're about to tell me you've been studying longer/are a Japanese native/fluent in Japanese and proceeding to tell me to shut up, then I suggest not taking the translations as the end all be all.

Oh, and add everything else that AzureDaora said as well.

edit:
The Kanji for tamashii isn't showing up well here... sorry about that.


----------



## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

How do synonyms have *different* definitions? I just posted the definitions, they are literally the same definitions for two different words. It's like saying the man didn't jump off the cliff because he leaped off the cliff.

I'm saying Big Ki = Big Soul. The soul fucker's hax is too weak because the soul is too powerful. The soul produces universe destroying power. You don't agree for...reasons, okay.

You are never going to convince me that spirit and soul are two different things. Never. Not as long as dictionaries exist. 

And the Kanji for Soul is literally also a Kanji for spirit...


----------



## AzureDaora (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> Omg, how do synonyms have *different* definitions? I just posted the definitions, they are literally the same definitions for two different words. It's like saying the man didn't jump off the cliff because he leaped off the cliff.
> 
> I'm saying Big Ki = Big Soul. The soul fucker's hax is too weak because the soul is too powerful. The soul produces universe destroying power. You don't agree for some reason, okay.
> 
> You are never going to convince me that spirit and soul are two different things. Never. Not as long as dictionaries exist.


Go and search what "synonym" means. Just, go. A synonym can have different definitions.

Even then, implying spirit and soul mean the same, so? 
Even if soul and spirit mean the same thing, does that mean Ki would equate to resistance to soul-fucking?
It doesn't.
Understand what the fallacy equivocation means and maybe you can spare yourself from shame, or that may already be too late.
Again, as stated by the example OBD wiki has, even if Toriyama said "Spirit energy", that doesn't mean that it resists soul fucking. AT ALL. Where do you get these conclusions?
How is that hard to understand?

Let me be as direct: When in the anime has Ki been showing anything even remotely SIMILAR to resisting soul-fucking?


----------



## Roggiano (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> Omg, how do synonyms have *different* definitions? I just posted the definitions, they are literally the same definitions for two different words. It's like saying the man didn't jump off the cliff because he leaped off the cliff.
> 
> I'm saying Big Ki = Big Soul. The soul fucker's hax is too weak because the soul is too powerful. The soul produces universe destroying power. You don't agree for some reason, okay.
> 
> ...


Alright.  Let me tell you this.

Akira Toriyama uses ki to represent "spiritual energy".  Ki can mean ll these different things:
1: spirit; mind; "heart";
2: nature; disposition;
3: motivation; intention;
4: mood; feelings;
5: atmosphere; essence

Tamashii, which is the word for soul, can mean, yes, "spirit".

Which then brings me to a point that I don't know if you know:
Words can have multiple meanings.  In English, in Japanese.  Why is this important?  Because the "spirit" that Akira Toriyama uses in DB is not the same "spirit" that you can equate to "soul".

Languages are not simple.  What you're doing is immediately hearing the word spirit and equating that to soul.  Which can so incredibly be false when you may have the definition of spirit as "the principle of conscious life" versus the definition that you seem to default to "the incorporeal part of humans".  See how they have different definitions?

That also means that even if two words are synonyms (strong and muscular), it doe not mean all of their definitions are the same as well.

So please, understand that Akira Toriyama is not using the kanji for "soul"... and the kanji that he is using for "spirit" is more along the lines of "the state in which a person is in".

If you can't understand this and continue to shut this out, then I have to tell you that there is then no longer any reason for this debate.  The point of the debate is for the sides to present their claim and support it with evidence.  The moment you bring in something like an opinion or something that does not follow logic (such as your stubbornness to think that spirit and soul may NOT mean the same thing), then the debate is lost.  A debate is not meant to be about winning or convincing others.  A debate is meant for people to learn and expand their horizons from other people's claims and evidence.  So I implore you to think about this for a moment and see that spirit and soul being the exact same thing may not always be true (and that in this case, it is NOT true).

edit:
@AzureDaora
He's keen on equating spirit energy equaling how strong the soul is, and then equating how strong the soul is to how resistant the soul is to soul-fucking.

Which, of course, is wrong considering that soul-fucking is also independent of "how strong a soul is"... quite frankly, I'm tempted to bring up the NNT example of Escanor having his soul ripped from his body but his soul clearly had properties that wrecked the TC who tried to eat his soul.

edit2:
You know what else doesn't make sense if, in DB, the power of ki is part of the soul?  The whole thing with Ginyu and his switching around bodies.  It was clear that when he went into Goku, he couldn't release the power of Goku's body without proper training.  All this suggests that ki is NOT tied to the soul.


----------



## God Movement (Apr 20, 2016)

What's going on here


----------



## Finalbeta (Apr 20, 2016)

Hit can half-universe bust and moves at quadrillions mach speeds

If it's enough ok if not patience


----------



## Roggiano (Apr 20, 2016)

God Movement said:


> What's going on here



Oh, nothing.  As of right now, we're debating about what ki really is in DB.

One side says Ki is part of the soul (because it is spiritual energy... and then apparently spirit always equates to soul because they're synonyms) in DB and representative of how strong a soul is.  How strong a soul is, in turn, should be comparable basis for resistance to soul fucking.

The other side says Ki is not part of the soul in DB and strength should be independent anyways from comparisons between the soul and soul fucking.

That's more or less what's happening.

There was something about Silver Requiem Chariot in Jojo a page ago or something.

edit:
Disregarding this strange debate about souls that just happened, I'm pretty certain there's nothing left for this threat to touch on.  I do believe there's a general consensus that Hit stops the top tiers of Jojo (like GER)... unless I missed something.  Anyways, so there's really not much point left in this thread.  The whole thing about souls can always be taken to the meta-dome if for some reason anyone wanted to continue this debate.


----------



## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

*@Roggiano *
Toriyama's definition of ki is a *"sort of life-energy found in all living things"* is far closer to the actual def of soul, than "a state of being". Unless you disagree, in which you are free to do do.


*@AzureDaora*
Dude, I told you, Hit's soul is too powerful, because Toriyama's definition of spirit energy is also the definition of soul. Hit's soul can produce the power to destroy the universe. *You* don't think Hit's soul is that powerful. Fantastic, we have differing opinions and so the world turns.


----------



## Roggiano (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> *@Roggiano *
> Soul can mean all those things, too.
> 
> How does Toriyama's definition, *"a sort of life-energy"*; he literally says this, mean _"the state in which a person is in"_ more than it means *"the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, the literal definition of soul."*
> ...


I'm not going to get into this one because clearly we have disagreements on this and you're not going to budge on this.  Not to mention, again, you're relying on translations.  I'm looking at the raw Japanese text, which while I won't say I can perfectly translate, certainly tell me something different than what you're seeing.



> *@AzureDaora*
> Dude, I told you, Hit's soul is too powerful, because Toriyama's definition of spirit energy is also the definition of soul. Hit's soul can produce the power to destroy the universe. *You* don't think Hit's soul that powerful. Fantastic, we have differing opinions and so the world turns.


I will be replying to this though.

Even if Hit's soul is strong, it does not mean he has resistance to soul fuck.  We do not assume someone has soul fuck resistance until proven otherwise because it's different from the "strength of a soul".  I will be using another series (Seven Deadly Sins... if you haven't read it... well, I will explain what's happening regardless soo) to demonstrate my point so bear with me:




In the above two panels, we have Escanor, a very powerful entity (perhaps the strongest the series) who had his soul ripped out and then devoured.





And then we have the person who tried to eat Escanor's soul literally burst into flames because of Escanor's magic which is clearly tied to his soul.

What does this mean?  Escanor has a goddamn powerful soul (in relationship to the rest of the series) but he does not have resistance to the soul fucking (which was the action of his soul being ripped from his body).

So, with that said, prove that Hit has soul fucking resistance, that he can resist having his soul being ripped out of him (note that there are also various forms of soul fucking... but let's not get into that).  Because as shown, regardless of how strong your soul is, you can still be soul fucked.

And yes, I used a different series to make my point but the point still stands.  And we do not default to someone having certain resistance or someone having a certain ability.  We default them to not having it unless proven otherwise or it defies common sense (ex: someone throwing a huge whale can obviously lift a five pound dumbbell).


----------



## AzureDaora (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> *@Roggiano *
> Soul can mean all those things, too.
> 
> How does Toriyama's definition, *"a sort of life-energy"*; he literally says this, mean _"the state in which a person is in"_ more than it means *"the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, the literal definition of soul."*
> ...


>.>
Really?
I'mma quote this:



			
				Roggiano said:
			
		

> "You know what else doesn't make sense if, in DB, the power of ki is part of the soul? The whole thing with Ginyu and his switching around bodies. It was clear that when he went into Goku, he couldn't release the power of Goku's body without proper training. All this suggests that ki is NOT tied to the soul."



And again,  how does his "spiritual power" tie to his power to resist spiritual attacks?
How long will we keep hammering that both are independent to each other?


----------



## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

Roggiano said:


> I will be replying to this though.
> 
> Even if Hit's soul is strong, it does not mean he has resistance to soul fuck. We do not assume someone has soul fuck resistance until proven otherwise



We disagree on this on a fundamental basis. I disagree with 99% of you on this basis. I have acknowledged this. I have also said that I will refrain from VS debates for this very reason. I believe in Hax Potency, you all do not.



AzureDaora said:


> >.>
> Really?
> I'mma quote this:
> 
> ...


We are literally saying the same things to each other over an over, now. lol

Also, are you implying that Goku and Ginyu switching bodies and Ginyu *not* having Goku's power in Goku's body is proof that spiritual power is not derived from their souls? Strange, Goku's power was made unavailable once Goku's soul left his body. But whatever you folks say.


----------



## Roggiano (Apr 20, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> We disagree on this on a fundamental basis. I disagree with 99% of you on this basis. I have acknowledged this. I have also said that I will refrain from VS debates for this very reason. I believe in Hax Potency, you all do not.
> 
> 
> We are literally saying the same things to each other over an over, now. lol


I'm not trying to be mean here when I say the following:
Go to another VS forum or, if you came from another VS forum, to go back there.

As you said, we're repeating the same things over and over.  It's tedious work and, if you disagree with a lot of the general consensus that the OBD has, a lot of your arguments will be like this: repetitive and tedious.  Therefore, it is only in everyone's best interest that, quite frankly, you don't debate here.  You already said you will so no problem with that.

On that note, I do bid you good day (or in my case, good night...).  Hope things turn out better for you elsewhere.

edit:
For your little tidbit by the way about Goku and Ginyu: it was stated that Ginyu didn't know how to use Goku's body, which is why he wasn't able to use the full power of Goku's body.  Plus, it makes absolutely no sense that he would switch bodies if it didn't mean it would boost his power.  That was why he did it after all.  He just didn't know that Goku became strong through massive amounts of training (and near-deaths and deaths) rather than simple genetics/inherent power.  (Do note that what race you are in DB does affect things like ki control and all that... hence why I brought up genetics.)


----------



## Clutch (Apr 20, 2016)

Bro, I said...


ME said:


> But I, in good conscious, would never feel comfortable making a leap that big.* I will probably just do better in refraining from VS threads.*



Unless refrain now means something else, too. Idk. I said that a long time ago. There is more to this site than discussing VS, though. You all have been asking me questions and I have been answering them. I've said at least a few more times that I wouldn't participate in anymore VS threads, because I don't agree with the guidelines.


----------



## Roggiano (Apr 20, 2016)

Eh, don't mind it.  I don't know about the others but I like to be the one to get the last post in.  Hence why I continue to post back.

Anyways, you say you're going to refrain from debating now so I'll just walk away as well before we continue this loop.  I seriously need to sleep ; ~ ;...


----------



## God Movement (Apr 20, 2016)

Hit loses any fight that he isn't able to blitz against abilities he has no resistance to.


----------



## Expelsword (Apr 20, 2016)

God Movement said:


> Hit loses any fight that he isn't able to blitz against abilities he has no resistance to.



This is a very generic statement. It applies to more than just Hit, but rather, every character.


----------



## God Movement (Apr 20, 2016)

What are you talking about


----------



## Iwandesu (Apr 20, 2016)

God Movement said:


> What are you talking about


No character can win a battle against a verse it doesnt have the speed edge nor hax resistance 
It is not just a hit thing


----------



## Sablés (Apr 20, 2016)

if they have the range and dc, they can.


----------



## Iwandesu (Apr 20, 2016)

i was including hax that ignore range
so i guess i worded it poorly


----------



## Montanz (Apr 20, 2016)

The only who really can pull a definitive victory over Hit is GER.

Pucci could in theory but he doesn't accelerate fast enough to  outright blitz him, plus Hit has timefreeze of which he could make better use of than Jotaro.


----------



## Finalbeta (Apr 20, 2016)

God Movement said:


> Hit loses any fight that he isn't able to blitz against abilities he has no resistance to.


Hit never loses


----------



## Blocky (Apr 20, 2016)

Peter Pan said:


> Hit never loses



In your wet dreams, he doesn't


----------



## OneSimpleAnime (Apr 20, 2016)

Montanz said:


> The only who really can pull a definitive victory over Hit is GER.
> 
> Pucci could in theory but he doesn't accelerate fast enough to  outright blitz him, plus Hit has timefreeze of which he could make better use of than Jotaro.



Full Throttle Pucci is immune to time stops


----------



## Montanz (Apr 20, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Full Throttle Pucci is immune to time stops



It takes him lots of time and acceleration to get there, Hit would blitz him before he could manage to go full throttle


----------



## almanar (Apr 21, 2016)

if the hax cant hit  Hit so, Hit cant be hit by hax itself, and then Hit will retailed the attacker  with hit99x...


----------



## King Diablo (Apr 21, 2016)

Hit wit da blitz.


----------



## Qinglong (Apr 22, 2016)

He's not blitzing GER


----------



## Mr. Good vibes (Apr 22, 2016)

This thread should of ended the moment GER was brought up.


----------



## TwulveGaighAutoLodeigh (Apr 22, 2016)

Hit can solo parts 1,2,3,4 and 6 effortlessly (However if Pucci is given C-Moon and MIH he would stomp effortlessly, seeing as he has gravity barriers and the abilitiy to reach infinite speeds and destroy/recreate the universe)

Part 5 however would crush Hit effortlessly. Gold Experience Requiem is the reason why.


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## BreakFlame (Apr 22, 2016)

People are having too much fun now that Goku can actually do some of the shit his wankers thought he could do since Namek. I'd give it a couple of weeks before they settle down.


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## ogreigniz (Apr 22, 2016)

This thread reached 3000+ views 

Hit's first win (because he loses only from GER) was successful


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## SF latif (Apr 22, 2016)

it changed back to his "lose" 
win only lasted a day


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 23, 2016)

Did some posts vanish or is it just me?


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 23, 2016)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Did some posts vanish or is it just me?


They vanished.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Apr 23, 2016)

Rest in pieces


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## Hachibi (Apr 23, 2016)

ogreigniz said:


> This thread reached 3000+ views
> 
> Hit's first win (because he loses only from GER) was successful


How's that a win if he actually lose to something within the verse?

I mean, Hit isn't the only one who can't solo JJBA because of GER


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 23, 2016)

As I've been saying he doesn't have an answer to full Pucci once he gets going with MiH or SCR either.


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## Hachibi (Apr 23, 2016)

Why do you keep saying "Pucci!MIH!"

Do you like him?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Masterblack06 (Apr 23, 2016)

Doesnt D4C pose a huge ass problem for Hit


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 24, 2016)

Masterblack06 said:


> Doesnt D4C pose a huge ass problem for Hit



It's not fast enough either even with proper stand scaling (which part 7 should get). Also the Love Train ability redirects misfortune to somewhere else on the planet so it's not helpful against a guy who can casually blow up the planet.


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## Bad Wolf (Apr 24, 2016)

Even Pucci have limits, restarting the universe isn't going to kill Hit or anyone else. And even if he have infinite speed he can't leave the earth


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## Masterblack06 (May 1, 2016)

So basically you'd need the top tiers or the ones with the really esoteric hax powers like Heavens Ascension Dio or GER

Reactions: Dislike 1


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