# Kenpachi in Naruto/Opverse



## Vicotex (Apr 27, 2014)

How far can he go in both verses in a gaunlet battle?
Speed is equal,Bloodlusted.


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## Chad (Apr 27, 2014)

Oh my, green bars back to full red in such a short time huh  

Anyways, he stops at anyone that's anywhere remotely close to Whitebeards level. So that's Roger, Garp, Shiki and Whitebeard himself.

For Nardo, Hashirama, Madara, Obido, Nardo, Sasuke, Orochimaru with Edo's, Kabuto with Edo's, RS, RS's bro, Kaguya, and of course the Jewbi stomps.

And also Itachi blitzes.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 27, 2014)

Kenpachis shikai can cut anything

anything includes an omniverse



gg


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## Linkofone (Apr 27, 2014)

What a response.


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## Hozukimaru (Apr 27, 2014)

Ken-chan flicks his wrist.

Stops at top tiers in both verses.


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## egressmadara (Apr 27, 2014)

He crushes the lolmeteors from both verses.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 27, 2014)

Astral said:


> Oh my, green bars back to full red in such a short time huh
> 
> Anyways, he stops at anyone that's anywhere remotely close to Whitebeards level. So that's Roger, Garp, Shiki and Whitebeard himself.
> 
> ...



Don't forget Indra and Asura


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## Linkofone (Apr 27, 2014)

What if ... 

he is the strongest?


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## Lurko (Apr 27, 2014)

Kenny is still fodder compared to Naruto top tiers.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Apr 27, 2014)

Kenpachi won't make it to top tiers due to various hax standing in his way.

He scuffles with the high tiers and loses somewhere along the way.


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## Lurko (Apr 27, 2014)

That's true someone like Don or Kabuto would troll him hard.


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## Lurko (Apr 27, 2014)

I wonder who would win between the third raikage and kenny.


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## Vicotex (Apr 27, 2014)

It has been done before and the third own him, can kenny beat muu or Ohnoki?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 27, 2014)

They'd probably hit him with Jinton, it'd be easier for Mu though


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## Iwandesu (Apr 27, 2014)

Vicotex said:


> It has been done before and the third own him, can kenny beat muu or Ohnoki?


Can jinton even beat Kenny,  nowadays ? (We are still talking about 111 gigatons of Kinetic energy)
He is above prime Nagato CT.


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## Lurko (Apr 27, 2014)

Vicotex said:


> It has been done before and the third own him, can kenny beat muu or Ohnoki?



Jinton gg os all.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 27, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Can jinton even beat Kenny,  nowadays ? (We are still talking about 111 gigatons of Kinetic energy)
> He is above prime Nagato CT.



I wish Prime Nagato got more feats, just the same as I really want Prime Hiruzen feats


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## Brightsteel (Apr 27, 2014)

If Prime Monkey got scaling based on hype. How strong would he be?  Juubi level?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 27, 2014)

Brightsteel said:


> If Prime Monkey got scaling based on hype. How strong would he be?  Juubi level?



He's supposed to be the strongest Hokage, knows all jutsu known in Konoha, and is the only other character besides Hagoromo known as the "God of Shinobi" so I'd say so. 

Also Enma is a pretty badass summon, imagine Monkey Sage Mode or some shit


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## Iwandesu (Apr 27, 2014)

Brightsteel said:


> If Prime Monkey got scaling based on hype. How strong would he be?  Juubi level?


Being fair, even hashirama wasn't much more than bijju casual high megatons raw power without his op sennin Mode that suddenly gave him worthy gigatons at dc.
Prime Hiruzen would be scalable just to whatever base Hashirama had +. (Indeed beastly anyways)
Also mach 1000 speed


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## Brightsteel (Apr 27, 2014)

The worf effect is strong in Naruto.

Monkey Sage Mode >>>>>>> Juubi >>> Juubi Containers, Sauce, Nardo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fodder

Sound about right?


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## Iwandesu (Apr 27, 2014)

Brightsteel said:


> The worf effect is strong in Naruto.
> 
> Monkey Sage Mode >>>>>>> Juubi >>> Juubi Containers, Sauce, Nardo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fodder
> 
> Sound about right?


Monkey sage mode?  He makes madara Petaton meteor be a actual feat


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## Brightsteel (Apr 27, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Monkey sage mode?  He makes madara Petaton meteor be a actual feat



Stop downplaying. He makes the petaton meteor look like part 1 Sauce's Katons.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 27, 2014)

Brightsteel said:


> The worf effect is strong in Naruto.
> 
> Monkey Sage Mode >>>>>>> Juubi >>> Juubi Containers, Sauce, Nardo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fodder
> 
> Sound about right?



Sounds good, but Juubi containers are actually > Juubi 



iwandesu said:


> Being fair, even hashirama wasn't much more than bijju casual high megatons raw power without his op sennin Mode that suddenly gave him worthy gigatons at dc.
> Prime Hiruzen would be scalable just to whatever base Hashirama had +. (Indeed beastly anyways)
> Also mach 1000 speed



I'm fine with that scaling too if the first doesn't apply


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## Brightsteel (Apr 27, 2014)

Really?  I always assumed, it was the Bijuu>Container or somd shit.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 27, 2014)

Brightsteel said:


> Really?  I always assumed, it was the Bijuu>Container or somd shit.



I originally figured so (because Bijuu are always able to use all their power with no drawbacks and originally it seemed like too much being used just freed the Bijuu) but as the series went on it's become Perfect Jinchuuriki > Bijuu because they can control the power better or something, it's especially prevalent with Naruto and the Juubi jinchuuriki


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## Mr. Black Leg (Apr 27, 2014)

egressmadara said:


> He crushes the lolmeteors from both verses.



lolno, the meteor from Nardo was exaton or something .


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## Iwandesu (Apr 27, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> lolno, the meteor from Nardo was exaton or something .


It was a Petaton outlier iirc but yeah leagues above bleach


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## Mr. Black Leg (Apr 27, 2014)

Yeah, thanks, wrong prefix .


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## Darth Niggatron (Apr 27, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> He's supposed to be the strongest Hokage,


A statement from an unreliable character.


> knows all jutsu known in Konoha,


Likely a hyperbole.


> and is the only other character besides Hagoromo known as the "God of Shinobi"


Hagoromo is the first God of Shinobi.
Hashirama is the second, and Hiruzen is the third.


> so I'd say so.


No. His feats put him below Tsunade.

He has the edge in versatility and range, but Tsunade most likely has greater firepower +dat regen.


> Also Enma is a pretty badass summon,


Word.


> imagine Monkey Sage Mode or some shit


It'd be awesome.


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## Chad (Apr 27, 2014)

Darth ^ (use bro) I don't think you know what you're talking about.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 27, 2014)

Prime Monkey solos HST


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## Darth Niggatron (Apr 27, 2014)

Astral said:


> Darth ^ (use bro) I don't think you know what you're talking about.



They don't know that, do they?
God, it's been ages since I used a lebron. So liberating.


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## Chad (Apr 27, 2014)

You're supposed to use a space in between the LeBron and the sentence ender. 

Like this. 

It's unprofessional to do it like this.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 27, 2014)

Astral said:


> You're supposed to use a space in between the LeBron and the sentence ender.
> 
> Like this.
> 
> It's unprofessional to do it like this.



Indeed, step up.


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## Sir Cool Blizzard (Apr 28, 2014)

He stops at sarutobi.....#BELIEVE_IN_HYPE
Jk......
He stops at Itachi and above !!


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## ShadowReaper (Apr 28, 2014)

Naruto: Hard to say, but most likely Pain. Jinton users like Muu/Oonoki would definetely be a threat to him, definetely stomps most of the high tiers
OP: Law. The hax>raw power. So should be able to get up to mid-high tiers, but lose because they seriously overwhelm him in Hax, speed and have an equal or greater durability/DC.


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## Freechoice (Apr 28, 2014)

Max green now


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## Vicotex (Apr 28, 2014)

Can he really shit on itachi?


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## Aphelion (Apr 28, 2014)

Astral said:


> Nope.



Genjutsu aside, I don't really see what Itachi can do before he gets sliced in half


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 28, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> Genjutsu aside, I don't really see what Itachi can do before he gets sliced in half



swing Totsuka and hope for the best


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## Vicotex (Apr 28, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> Genjutsu aside, I don't really see what Itachi can do before he gets sliced in half


with genjutsu itachi can make kenny commit a suicide, totsuka blitz, kunai to the eye.


MusubiKazesaru said:


> swing Totsuka and hope for the best



maybe that moon genjutsu


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## Aphelion (Apr 28, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> swing Totsuka and hope for the best



Err..remind me.  Does Totsuka bypass durability, or does it need to physically pierce its target in order to soul suck?  If the latter is true, then I don't see how it helps.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 28, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> Err..remind me.  Does Totsuka bypass durability, or does it need to physically pierce its target in order to soul suck?  If the latter is true, then I don't see how it helps.



Yeah it's piecing, no good then


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## 1Person (Apr 28, 2014)

Kenpatchi probably doesn't make it past deidara. gigaton bombs,clay clones and the ability to use C4 multiple times seem like too much for kenny


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 28, 2014)

1Person said:


> Kenpatchi probably doesn't make it past deidara. gigaton bombs,clay clones and the ability to use C4 multiple times seem like too much for kenny



assuming he's able to get out of Kenpachi's reach fast enough, Deidara's clay does take a bit of time, he could probably swap in a clay clone since they don't use as much prep and use the opening to create a C1 Bird and fly beyond what Kenpachi can jump and then use C3 and C4


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## ShadowReaper (Apr 28, 2014)

And why does Deidara gets scaled so high? His strongest attack is a small city level at best. And wasn't it said that Bijuu's without Jinchurikies are really weak? And just a few Jinchurikies managed to control their Bijuus and thus use their full power. He and most of the Akatsuki's are too weak to even be compared with high tiers.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 28, 2014)

Deidara has a gigatons feat + KOed 3-tails who has high island+/small country durability




> And wasn't it said that Bijuu's without Jinchurikies are really weak?


lol nope


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 28, 2014)

ShadowReaper said:


> And why does Deidara gets scaled so high? His strongest attack is a small city level at best. And wasn't it said that Bijuu's without Jinchurikies are really weak? And just a few Jinchurikies managed to control their Bijuus and thus use their full power. He and most of the Akatsuki's are too weak to even be compared with high tiers.



They aren't really weak, Kyuubi is country level by itself and the others are all somewhere below that. Deidara's C3 got calced when it hit the island turtle at gigatons


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## Mr. Black Leg (Apr 28, 2014)

ShadowReaper said:


> And why does Deidara gets scaled so high? His strongest attack is a small city level at best. And wasn't it said that Bijuu's without Jinchurikies are really weak? And just a few Jinchurikies managed to control their Bijuus and thus use their full power. He and most of the Akatsuki's are too weak to even be compared with high tiers.



Gigaton feats . And who the fuck even said that Bijuu's without Jinchurikis are really weak ? At best what was said about this topic is that Juubi while being controlled is much more effective than free .

Really weak ? Really, get your facts straight dude .


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 28, 2014)

biijuu by themselves are smarter then most ninja 

no wonder Kurama ended up being a 'captain'


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## Aphelion (Apr 28, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> Deidara has a gigatons feat + KOed 3-tails who has high island+/small country durability



IIRC that was done with just one of his generic C1 explosives.  That seems like it would be an outlier.  I thought it was flipping the island turtle that put his higher end bombs into the gigatons.


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## Alita (Apr 28, 2014)

In naruto he makes it up to deidara at best where he loses and in one piece he makes it up to law at best.


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## Iwandesu (Apr 28, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> IIRC that was done with just one of his generic C1 explosives.  That seems like it would be an outlier.  I thought it was flipping the island turtle that put his higher end bombs into the gigatons.


it indeed was made by an unnamed bomb which at best was a c2. (even sauce survived c2, and this is the only outlier.)
deidara has many gigatons feats, though (beating gigaton garra sand, the turtle island and sanbi)
he really was just overpowered.
btw pulverizating 15km with C0 wide is easily a gigaton+ feat .


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## Alita (Apr 28, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> IIRC that was done with just one of his generic C1 explosives.  That seems like it would be an outlier.  I thought it was flipping the island turtle that put his higher end bombs into the gigatons.


It wasn't shown what specific explosive deidara used to take out the 3 tails with.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 28, 2014)

Alita54 said:


> In naruto he makes it up to deidara at best where he loses and in one piece he makes it up to law at best.



If Kenpachi's durability is Gigatons what is Law going to do?


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Apr 28, 2014)

ShadowReaper said:


> And why does Deidara gets scaled so high?


Because he is a high tier who is pretty all about blowing shit up. Anyway i thought he had the feats for this anyway nearly wiping out sunakagure and flipping islands with abit help.



> And wasn't it said that Bijuu's without Jinchurikies are really weak?


Nah a nasty rumor made by arrogant humans like madara and deidara. They have shown to be able to work in tandem and use bijuu balls and their unique abilities(saiken substances, shukaku's sealing tattoos etc.) 



> And just a few Jinchurikies managed to control their Bijuus and thus use their full power.


Nah a jin who mastered their bijuu is usually stronger than a bijuu on it's lonesome but only because they can supplement their abilities with their own(naruto's chakra transfer, bee making sealing ink clones and obito and madara focusing the juubi's power while using multiple techniques).



> He and most of the Akatsuki's are too weak to even be compared with high tiers.


The dojutsu three(itachi, nagato and obito) are on another level than most of the other akatsuki but all of akatsuki are high tiers in the verse(though konan and hidan are lame imo). Again deidara has some of the best firepower in the series that don't require top tier shit so DC wise he can hang. This is only correct for a AoE centric explosion release user.


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## Aphelion (Apr 28, 2014)

Alita54 said:


> It wasn't shown what specific explosive deidara used to take out the 3 tails with.



It was actually 
*Spoiler*: __


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## Alita (Apr 28, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> If Kenpachi's durability is Gigatons what is Law going to do?


Since when was his durability in the gigatons? He didn't tank the meteor he cut it in half.



EntangledHive said:


> It was actually


I don't see the turtle getting nailed by the explosion and one shotted in that scan...


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 28, 2014)

Alita54 said:


> Since when was his durability in the gigatons? He didn't tank the meteor he cut it in half.



I thought he got that scaling for whatever reasons since I've seen him been given it in other threads


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## Aphelion (Apr 28, 2014)

Alita54 said:


> Since when was his durability in the gigatons? He didn't tank the meteor he cut it in half.


Not in half, he almost completely pulverized the thing.  Unless energy transfer isn't a thing a good deal of the kinetic energy would have been imparted onto him the instant he made contact.  You also have to consider that Kenpachi tanked the explosion from Gremmy's suicide clone.  Their durability was enough to survive the meteor impact and the explosion wiped them all out.



Alita54 said:


> I don't see the turtle getting nailed by the explosion and one shotted in that scan...


Check the edit.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Apr 28, 2014)

Maybe he put some C3 into a small fish...lol i really don't know.


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## Alita (Apr 28, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> Not in half, he almost completely pulverized the thing.  Unless energy transfer isn't a thing a good deal of the kinetic energy would have been imparted onto him the instant he made contact.  You also have to consider that Kenpachi tanked the explosion from Gremmy's suicide clone.  Their durability was enough to survive the meteor impact and the explosion wiped them all out.
> 
> 
> Check the edit.


I don't know if we apply the whole energy transfer thing. You'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable on that like fluttershy. Although Onoki was able to completely stop one of madara's meteors in yet we don't give him durability on the same level as the meteor even though I'm certain that if we applied energy transfer for such a brief attack like Kenny's slash the same would also be done for onoki. he didn't destroy the meteor but he did completely stop it which I would also figure would require similar energy release to the meteor. And if I remember right gremmy only said he would survive the meteor but he didn't actually tank the impact on panel. Unless we are just taking character statements at face value now...

And that scan still doesn't show the turtle being one shotted by said attack. We know the turtle was taken out by something but the manga as far as I remember never made it clear as to just what that was. It could have been that attack or something else. Most of the battle happened off panel. Also it should be obvious that that attack is stronger than deidara's weaker explosions since his C1 explosions never made blasts that huge before.


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## Iwandesu (Apr 28, 2014)

Alita54 said:


> I don't know if we apply the whole energy transfer thing. You'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable on that like fluttershy. Although Onoki was able to completely stop one of madara's meteors in yet we don't give him durability on the same level as the meteor even though I'm certain that if we applied energy transfer for such a brief attack like Kenny's slash the same would also be done for onoki. he didn't destroy the meteor but he did completely stop it which I would also figure would require similar energy release to the meteor. And if I remember right gremmy only said he would survive the meteor but he didn't actually tank the impact on panel. Unless we are just taking character statements at face value now...
> 
> And that scan still doesn't show the turtle being one shotted by said attack. We know the turtle was taken out by something but the manga as far as I remember never made it clear as to just what that was. It could have been that attack or something else. Most of the battle happened off panel. Also it should be obvious that that attack is stronger than deidara's weaker explosions since his C1 explosions never made blasts that huge before.


It really is likely to be a c2 bomb,   like the teleguides dragons he used against sauce. 
Kenny destroyed and tanked the explosion of the meteor (the same which destroyed gremmy clones which were calculated to be as LE at the 55 gigaton margin. ) The explosion itself was calculated to be at the 110 gigatons. Which alone puts him above most of nardo high tiers only being below to Deidara (which seems to be> prime Nagato)  and above.
oonoki tanked an outlier. and he did this with an unquantifiable hability called weight manipulation. 
He can't be escalled to shit, unless we start scalling old piccolo daimaou to moon level due to roshi moon busting and everyone above nymph to small planet level at sora no otoshimono.


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## Vicotex (Apr 28, 2014)

Deidera said he can wipe out sunagkure and he was about doing it when gaara protected the village. Can someone calc how powerfull deidera DC would be to wipe out the village


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 28, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> It really is likely to be a c2 bomb,   like the teleguides dragons he used against sauce.
> Kenny destroyed and tanked the explosion of the meteor (the same which destroyed gremmy clones which were calculated to be as LE at the 55 gigaton margin. ) The explosion itself was calculated to be at the 110 gigatons. Which alone puts him above most of nardo high tiers only being below to Deidara (which seems to be> prime Nagato)  and above.
> oonoki tanked an outlier. and he did this with an unquantifiable hability called weight manipulation.
> He can't be escalled to shit, unless we start scalling old piccolo daimaou to moon level due to roshi moon busting and everyone above nymph to small planet level at sora no otoshimono.



Of course Deidara is only above Nagato in DC


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## Aphelion (Apr 28, 2014)

Alita54 said:


> I don't know if we apply the whole energy transfer thing. You'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable on that like fluttershy. Although Onoki was able to completely stop one of madara's meteors in yet we don't give him durability on the same level as the meteor even though I'm certain that if we applied energy transfer for such a brief attack like Kenny's slash the same would also be done for onoki. he didn't destroy the meteor but he did completely stop it which I would also figure would require similar energy release to the meteor. And if I remember right gremmy only said he would survive the meteor but he didn't actually tank the impact on panel. Unless we are just taking character statements at face value now...



Onoki couldn't do anything to the Meteor before he lightened it, he was basically falling with it.  And it was only with Gaara's help and after having its weight massively reduced that he was able to stop it.

Kenpachi on the other hand just casually obliterated it, and wasn't at all pushed back or injured from the impact.

Well this character statement in particular seems to be quite credible.  If nothing else, he's been shown to have a good understanding of the things he imagines.  He's never given us any reason to doubt his ability to gauge the power of his own creations.(well except for that last bit )

He even showed off his new durablity when he laughed off base Kenny's slashes.




> And that scan still doesn't show the turtle being one shotted by said attack. We know the turtle was taken out by something but the manga as far as I remember never made it clear as to just what that was. It could have been that attack or something else. Most of the battle happened off panel. Also it should be obvious that that attack is stronger than deidara's weaker explosions since his C1 explosions never made blasts that huge before.



Meh, point taken.  Tobi even said something about using a Jutsu of his own to subdue it, so there was obviously a lot we didn't see.


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## Iwandesu (Apr 28, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Of course Deidara is only above Nagato in DC


Can a city block + dura, at best Mach 70 in speed like Deidara be above a truly high tier at nardo in any point besides dc?


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## Vicotex (Apr 28, 2014)

Can scale their dura to fodders who tanked juubi slap?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 28, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Can a city block + dura, at best Mach 70 in speed like Deidara be above a truly high tier at nardo in any point besides dc?



bottom of the bin otherwise


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## tkpirate (Apr 28, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> Not in half, he almost completely pulverized the thing.  Unless energy transfer isn't a thing a good deal of the kinetic energy would have been imparted onto him the instant he made contact.  You also have to consider that Kenpachi tanked the explosion from Gremmy's suicide clone.  Their durability was enough to survive the meteor impact and the explosion wiped them all out.



Kenpachi didn't pulverize the meteor.and Gremmy would have probably survived the meteor via his reality warping,so i don't know how he gets durability from that.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 28, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> Kenpachi didn't pulverize the meteor.and Gremmy would have probably survived the meteor via his reality warping,so i don't know how he gets durability from that.



He claimed to be able to survive it, but honestly I'm all in favor of nerfing Gremmy.


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## Aphelion (Apr 29, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> Kenpachi didn't pulverize the meteor.


Of course he did.  The thing was almost 6 kilometers in diameter and there were barely a dozen fragments not even as a big building remaining.  If it had been anything less than pulverization, then there would have been *far* more debris. 



> and Gremmy would have probably survived the meteor via his reality warping,so i don't know how he gets durability from that.


No, it was just a durability boost.  That's why base Kenny could no longer cut him after he cloned himself.


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## tkpirate (Apr 29, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> He claimed to be able to survive it, .



yeah,but it should be clear that he would have survived it via reality warping,so i don't know how he could get physical durability from this.


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## tkpirate (Apr 29, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> Of course he did.



no he didn't,otherwise we wouldn't have seen this(there are other scans too):-http://www.mangabb.me/bleach/chapter-578/3


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## tkpirate (Apr 29, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> No, it was just a durability boost.  That's why base Kenny could no longer cut him after he cloned himself.



base kenny and that meteor's DC aren't same.


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## Aphelion (Apr 29, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> no he didn't,otherwise we wouldn't have seen this(there are other scans too):-http://www.mangabb.me/bleach/chapter-578/3


Did......did you just stop reading after that sentence? 

I'm aware there were a few fragments, the question is where did the other 99.999% of the meteor go.



tkpirate said:


> base kenny and that meteor's DC aren't same.



Not the point.

Gremmy says he can survive the meteor, Kenpachi can no longer cut him.  Ergo his "erasing the image of death" technique is not specific to the meteor, but rather a general increase in durability.


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## Sablés (Apr 29, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> yeah,but it should be clear that he would have survived it via reality warping,so i don't know how he could get physical durability from this.


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## tkpirate (Apr 29, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> Did......did you just stop reading after that sentence?
> 
> I'm aware there were a few fragments, the question is where did the other 99.999% of the meteor go.
> .



obviously kubo didn't show all the fragments.afterall he dosen't draw his manga to show rocks.the fact is we see he didn't pulverize the thing.so we can say that he didn't pulverize it.


can't see the pic,can you post the link to the scan or something?


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## Sablés (Apr 29, 2014)

Only in the cancerdome would someone have to explain this in detail. Gremme erased his death, in doing so his durability was increased as a byproduct. I'm not sure where this talk of "it's reality warping" is coming from, everything Gremme's done is reality warping at the source, in this context, taking form in raising his durability  to the extent that NLF allows it.

Gremme would have survived the meteor's impact so he gets the durability from it. In regards to Kenpachi, his durability if not scaled via energy transfer will be from Gremme's further antics. Gremme's imaginative abilities were doubled by each clone; I count  he used here indicating he was exponentially more powerful than before. In a desperate tactic, he managed to create an explosion that was strong enough to surpass the energy that erased his death even while functioning several times higher than what would have been required to stave off the Meteor and Kenpachi tanked it. This is further supported by  the explosion despite having already proven capable of no-selling the meteorite  and that he's visibly  more  using that technique than any we've seen prior.

Regardless of how you slice it, There's more than enough evidence for.both Gremme and Zaraki to get durability and DC scaling from the meteor.


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## LoveLessNHK (Apr 29, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> Gremme's imaginative abilities were doubled by each clone



I'm skeptical of this.

It makes more sense to just assume that each clone just added 1x to his base value (where x is his base value).

meaning

X (original) + X (clone) + X (clone) + X (clone) + X (clone) + X (clone) + X (clone) = 7X


----------



## Sablés (Apr 29, 2014)

LoveLessNHK said:


> I'm skeptical of this.
> 
> It makes more sense to just assume that each clone just added 1x to his base value (where x is his base value).
> 
> ...





That's pretty far from the point.


----------



## Aphelion (Apr 29, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> obviously kubo didn't show all the fragments.afterall he dosen't draw his manga to show rocks.the fact is we see he didn't pulverize the thing.so we can say that he didn't pulverize it.



Your opinion of the author intention doesn't mean anything.  All that matters is what's shown on panel.  If it had been violent fragmentation, there would have been a huge rain of tiny little fragments darkening the sky.  If it had been less than that, Sereitei would have been destroyed.

And of course we fucking see him pulverize it, he pulverized it the instant he swung his sword . The proof that it was pulverization is in the aftermath.


----------



## Blanco (Apr 29, 2014)

Kenpachi stops at Smoker


----------



## Chad (Apr 29, 2014)

Kenny can cut Logias?


----------



## tkpirate (Apr 29, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> Your opinion of the author intention doesn't mean anything.  All that matters is what's shown on panel.  If it had been violent fragmentation, there would have been a huge rain of tiny little fragments darkening the sky.  If it had been less than that, Sereitei would have been destroyed.
> And of course we fucking see him pulverize it, he pulverized it the instant he swung his sword . The proof that it was pulverization is in the aftermath.



wtf?when the fuck did i talk about authors intention?i'm talking about what's being shown on-panel.we did see some of the buildings getting destroyed.it's possible more was destroyed but kubo didn't show it.even if he pulverized it,we don't know exactly how much of it was pulverized,so no,it wasn't pulverization.


----------



## Aphelion (Apr 29, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> wtf?when the fuck did i talk about authors intention?i'm talking about what's being shown on-panel.we did see some of the buildings getting destroyed.it's possible more was destroyed but kubo didn't show it.even if he pulverized it,we don't know exactly how much of it was pulverized,so no,it wasn't pulverization.



"Kubo probably didn't draw all of the fragments"

"He doesn't write this manga to draw rocks"

Meaningless statements.

 At the end of the chapter we see several fully intact buildings *directly* under the site where Kenpachi smashed the meteor.

It's impossible that that area wouldn't have been smashed to pieces, according to your hypothesis anyways.

Hell even when the few fragments crash down around them, the buildings for the most part remain fully intact. 

It's really quite simple, the proof is in what we don't see.  If he didn't at the very least pulverize it, the sky would be completely full of fragments.  The Sereitei would still receive heavy damage, or at the very least be littered with tiny fragments.  A rock that gargantuan doesn't simply disappear.


----------



## Agmaster (Apr 29, 2014)

Astral said:


> Kenny can cut Logias?



Logias can cut Kenny? 

that 's how we do this, right?


----------



## tkpirate (Apr 29, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> At the end of the chapter we see several fully intact buildings *directly* under the site where Kenpachi smashed the meteor.
> It's impossible that that area wouldn't have been smashed to pieces, according to your hypothesis anyways.
> Hell even when the few fragments crash down around them, the buildings for the most part remain fully intact.
> It's really quite simple, the proof is in what we don't see.  If he didn't at the very least pulverize it, the sky would be completely full of fragments.  The Sereitei would still receive heavy damage, or at the very least be littered with tiny fragments.  A rock that gargantuan doesn't simply disappear.



well,he may have pulverized some part of it,but obviously he didn't pulverized the entire thing.take a look at the scan i linked in the last page,there are other scans that shows the same thing.even Greemy said ''did he break it into pieces''.it's probably a combination of pulverization and fragmentation.and you don't know exactly how much he pulverized.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 29, 2014)

he's right though, Kenny can't kill logias


----------



## Chad (Apr 29, 2014)

Confirmed: Even current Kenny can't beat Suigetsu. 


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Vicotex (Apr 29, 2014)

^kenny cant kill him cos of logia/intang +tanking bee's BB ain't a childs play


----------



## Aphelion (Apr 29, 2014)

We don't see any other fragments.

*We don't see any other fragments*

You're just making things up.  We get a frontal view of the Vandenreich in the first page, and multiple skyward shots throughout the chapter.  We only see eight fragments, tops.

"There could be more fragments" is not an argument.


----------



## tkpirate (Apr 29, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> We don't see any other fragments.
> *We don't see any other fragments*
> You're just making things up.  We get a frontal view of the Vandenreich in the first page, and multiple skyward shots throughout the chapter.  We only see eight fragments, tops.
> "There could be more fragments" is not an argument.



actually you're making up things.we see more fragments here:-http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/577/17


----------



## Aphelion (Apr 29, 2014)

Great.  They're still miniscule and few, so that doesn't help your point at all.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Apr 29, 2014)

A Logia of something too solid is really possible for Kenpachi to kill . Ice, Magma, Darkness, Swamp, Snow, and " Sticky " . For unsolid and unphysical things like Fire, Eletricity, Smoke and Light it's impossible for Kenpachi do something WITHOUT EQUIVALATION RULE .

Under he can't kill Sakazuki nor Blackbeard . Both of them survived angry as hell WB .

Edit: Kenpachi would either need to get energy enough to turn into another state of matter or stop the thing dead(AZ) . He would have to turn Fire and Smoke into plasma(Eletricity can be plasma and all, I don't know for sure), and that's about it of what he could do with adding energy to kill unsolid/unphysical Logia, now  all of them would be able to kill with taking energy from them(In Kizaru's Light case would need to be lot's of taking energy since he is made of photons and they carry really much energy, but something like bose-einstein condensate level of cold would be a possible way) .


----------



## tkpirate (Apr 29, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> Great.  They're still miniscule and few, so that doesn't help your point at all.



they're not few.even in the second panel of the first scan that i linked,you could see a lot of small fragments in the backgrounds.and there is a character statement to support that as well.so stop.


----------



## Aphelion (Apr 29, 2014)

God damn it man.

When it comes to fragments that small, It wouldn't matter if there were ten, or one hundred of them.

No....the sky should be *covered* with rocks.  The fact that we can even *see* the sky clearly in the first panel alone is proof the vast majority of the meteorite was ground into a fine thin powder.  Do you understand?


----------



## tkpirate (Apr 29, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> God damn it man.
> When it comes to fragments that small, It wouldn't matter if there were ten, or one hundred of them.
> No....the sky should be *covered* with rocks.  The fact that we can even *see* the sky clearly in the first panel alone is proof the vast majority of the meteorite was ground into a fine thin powder.  Do you understand?



yeah,it's possible that decent amount of that meteor was pulverized.but there are multiple scans showing that there was fragmentation as well,and a character statement that supports it.so we don't know exact how much was pulverized.so no.


----------



## Aphelion (Apr 29, 2014)

Pirate...

No one is disputing the fact that some fragmentation occurred.

The scans you are referring to show fragments whose size is minuscule in comparison to the meteor they came from.  Looking at it again, they're like a tenth of the size of the buildings in the Vandenreich.  Unless there are thousands of them, the difference between the energy required for full pulverization and the same energy taking into account the fragments would be negligible.


----------



## tkpirate (Apr 29, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> Pirate...
> No one is disputing the fact that some fragmentation occurred.
> The scans you are referring to show fragments whose size is minuscule in comparison to the meteor they came from.  Looking at it again, they're like a tenth of the size of the buildings in the Vandenreich.  Unless there are thousands of them, the difference between the energy required for full pulverization and the same energy taking into account the fragments would be negligible.



as i said,the fragments can be seen in background of the second panel of the first scan i linked.they could be bigger too,it's possible that the perspective is making them look small.also do you understand the only thing you're saying from start is ''the sky should be covered with rocks''?when i have shown you scans and statements.


----------



## Aphelion (Apr 29, 2014)

> s i said,the fragments can be seen in background of the second panel of the first scan i linked.they could be bigger too,it's possible that the perspective is making them look small



Occam's Razor.  We see multiple fragments falling, all drawn pretty much the same way.  The impacts we see cause similar amounts of damage.



> also do you understand the only thing you're saying from start is ''the sky should be covered with rocks''?



I'm saying that because it should be.  That tends to happen when a six kilometer long Meteor is blown to pieces 



> when i have shown you scans and statements.


The statement is irrelevant.  Yes it was blown into fragments.  He's looking right at the fragments.  He never specified that the entire meteor was.  Even if he did, it wouldn't matter because the visuals would contradict his statement.


----------



## tkpirate (Apr 29, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> Occam's Razor.  We see multiple fragments falling, all drawn pretty much the same way.  The impacts we see cause similar amounts of damage.
> I'm saying that because it should be.  That tends to happen when a six kilometer long Meteor is blown to pieces
> The statement is irrelevant.  Yes it was blown into fragments.  He's looking right at the fragments.  He never specified that the entire meteor was.  Even if he did, it wouldn't matter because the visuals would contradict his statement.



how dose Occam's Razor support what you're saying?again you're saying same thing again and again.and that statement is relevant,because multiple scans support that statement.still if you're able to get anyone who makes calcs support your claim,i may accept it.


----------



## Aphelion (Apr 30, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> how dose Occam's Razor support what you're saying?again you're saying same thing again and again.and that statement is relevant,because multiple scans support that statement.still if you're able to get anyone who makes calcs support your claim,i may accept it.



Because the assumption that "the fragments might be really far away" is completely unfounded.  Best to stick with what we can see.  If Kubo did intend to make them that far away then he did a terrible job depicting it.

Pretty sad that you can't accept an argument for its own merits but just whether or not the person who's presenting it makes calcs.  We're not even talking math here, it's just common sense.  I'm bringing up the same thing over and over because it's a really fucking important detail that you are severely overlooking.

And just to humor you, in the Kenpachi vs Zoro thread, Waka assumed from the get go that it was pulverization, so there's your person who does calcs


----------



## tkpirate (Apr 30, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> Because the assumption that "the fragments might be really far away" is completely unfounded.  Best to stick with what we can see.  If Kubo did intend to make them that far away then he did a terrible job depicting it.
> Pretty sad that you can't accept an argument for its own merits but rather or not the person who's presenting it makes calcs.  We're not even talking math here, it's just common sense.  I'm bringing up the same thing over and over because it's a really fucking important detail that you are severely overlooking.
> And just to humor you, in the Kenpachi vs Zoro thread, Waka assumed from the get go that it was pulverization, so there's your person who does calcs



so you're saying perspective dosen't matter?this isn't the first time that kubo fucks up the visuals.and i'm not overlooking anything,i'm saying that it's possible that  decent part of that meteor was pulverized,but we don't know how much of it was pulverized.you haven't shown me any other proof than saying ''the sky would have been covered with rocks''.


----------



## Aphelion (Apr 30, 2014)

> so you're saying perspective dosen't matter


I'm saying that assuming a perspective for the sole purpose of supporting your position is not a valid counterargument.  The fragments that crashed appeared to all be the same size, and created similar sized dust clouds.  They're drawn to appear as basically the same size and appearance as the others. 



> i'm not overlooking anything,i'm saying that it's possible that decent part of that meteor was pulverized


No, it's not "possible", it's just a fact, and it was more than "decent."  Think about the size of the metor.  Then think about amount of debris a metor of that size would produce.  Then think about that compared to the amount of debris we see on panel.  Getting the picture?


----------



## tkpirate (Apr 30, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> I'm saying that assuming a perspective for the sole purpose of supporting your position is not a valid counterargument.  The fragments that crashed appeared to all be the same size, and created similar sized dust clouds.  They're drawn to appear as basically the same size and appearance as the others.
> No, it's not "possible", it's just a fact, and it was more than "decent."  Think about the size of the metor.  Then think about amount of debris a metor of that size would produce.  Then think about that compared to the amount of debris we see on panel.  Getting the picture?



i'm not assuming the perspective.Obviously something which is in the background,will look smaller.that's common sense.and yeah,that means decent amount of that meteor was pulverized,but not the entire thing.and you don't know how much of it was.


----------



## Aphelion (Apr 30, 2014)

You're assuming that the fragments in the background are far away enough where they are far larger than they actually appear, which besides your word has no evidence backing it up.  I'll just quote myself:


> The fragments that crashed appeared to all be the same size, and created similar sized dust clouds. They're drawn to appear as basically the same size and appearance as the others.





tkpirate said:


> decent



The fact that you keep using that word tells me that you didn't think hard enough about what I asked you to think about


----------



## tkpirate (Apr 30, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> You're assuming that the fragments in the background are far away enough where they are far larger than they actually appear, which besides your word has no evidence backing it up.  I'll just quote myself:
> The fact that you keep using that word tells me that you didn't think hard enough about what I asked you to think about



even if they are not ''far'' larger,they should be larger than they appear.again that's common sense.and yes i have thought about it,but the fact is that you haven't given me any proof otherthan saying ''the whole sky should have been covered with rocks''.but i have given you multiple evidence.


----------



## Aphelion (Apr 30, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> even if they are not ''far'' larger,they should be larger than they appear.again that's common sense.and yes i have thought about it,but the fact is that you haven't given me any proof otherthan saying ''the whole sky should have been covered with rocks''.but i have given you multiple evidence.



No proof.  Hell, maybe they're _closer_ than they appear and are actually smaller 

That has just as much evidence as your claim.  You see what I mean by Occam's razor?

 Quality of evidence > Quantity of evidence


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 30, 2014)

suigetsu drowns kenny


----------



## tkpirate (Apr 30, 2014)

EntangledHive said:


> No proof.  Hell, maybe they're _closer_ than they appear and are actually smaller
> That has just as much evidence as your claim.  You see what I mean by Occam's razor?
> Quality of evidence > Quantity of evidence



yeah,now i think you don't understand anything about perspective in the manga.and no,my evidence are>in both Quality and Quantity.


----------



## Darth Niggatron (Apr 30, 2014)

How exactly is that pulverisation?
We saw the after effects of the meteor. We saw large rock fragments.
ITT: Peepz talking out of their asses.


----------



## Sablés (Apr 30, 2014)

pretty sure Waka said it was violent fragmentation.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Kenny get the scaling however.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 30, 2014)

Well, you could argue that it's pretty close to being fully pulverized.
Those tiny fragments accumulated probably won't even reach 1% of the meteors mass.
It doesn't matter eitherway, since he gets scaled to the KE.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 30, 2014)

> since he gets scaled to the KE.


and why was that again ?


----------



## Aphelion (Apr 30, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> yeah,now i think you don't understand anything about perspective in the manga.and no,my evidence are>in both Quality and Quantity.



Perspective works both ways 

And unless you can somehow provide an adequate explanation as to why there isn't an exponentially higher number of fragments than is shown on panel, there's no reason for this to continue.


----------



## Ryo Shiki (Apr 30, 2014)

Naruto - stops at Tayuya, Hiruzen or Stupid Tobi
One Piece - stops at Perona, Kuma or Boa

too many hax Jutsu & devil fruit for him to get very far with speed equal.


----------



## Tapion (Apr 30, 2014)

Perona is a ghost correct? why wouldn't a ghost be able to hit a ghost?


----------



## Zern227 (Apr 30, 2014)

Starraver said:


> Perona is a ghost correct? why wouldn't a ghost be able to hit a ghost?



Because Shinigami don't phase through matter like other Ghost do.


----------



## LazyWaka (Apr 30, 2014)

Ryo Shiki said:


> Naruto - stops at Tayuya, Hiruzen or Stupid Tobi
> One Piece - stops at Perona, Kuma or Boa
> 
> too many hax Jutsu & devil fruit for him to get very far with speed equal.



Massivley underestimating Kenpachi here.


----------



## Tapion (Apr 30, 2014)

Zern227 said:


> Because Shinigami don't phase through matter like other Ghost do.



I believe they spirits the perform konso on can, which they'd need to touch with their zan.


----------



## Zern227 (Apr 30, 2014)

Starraver said:


> I believe they spirits the perform konso on can, which they'd need to touch with their zan.



It's highly unlike Kenpachi will resort to that and the fact he has to touch Perona's forehead with the bottom of his hilt makes it worse. She'd still lose because Kenpachi will find her body.


----------



## egressmadara (Apr 30, 2014)

Starraver said:


> I believe they spirits the perform konso on can, which they'd need to touch with their zan.


Pluses have never phased through stuff.

The only time intangibility in Bleach occurred was Orihime phasing through Ichigo's bedroom wall based on a specific object that Ulquiorra gave her.


----------



## Agmaster (Apr 30, 2014)

In regards to the intangibility factor....how is kenpachi perceived to have cut through 'space'?  lolreiatsu i assume is the excuse, which no matter how refined, can never be compared to haki...if i recall the obd's current paradigm.  Am I on point?


----------



## Lurko (Apr 30, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> suigetsu drowns kenny



The sad truth


----------



## Sablés (Apr 30, 2014)

If Zaraki could cut space.

Wouldn't that mean he could he hit Tobi?


----------



## Lurko (Apr 30, 2014)

Doubt it, didn't he cut the clones??


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 30, 2014)

If he can cut through dimensions like Kuwabara then yeah. Would the "ignore defense" type of dimension attack work on him?


----------



## Revan Reborn (Apr 30, 2014)

I was sure he did unless people see something else

I see him cutting through space.


----------



## Rivers (Apr 30, 2014)

Kenpachi says there is nothing he cant cut...


----------



## Iwandesu (Apr 30, 2014)

slayedigneel said:


> I was sure he did unless people see something else
> 
> I see him cutting through space.


I think the main issue was with classifying this as a pocket dimension space or just a teleport of a part of it. The former means dimension cut that is = hax and kenny having 50/50 of soloing bleach. The latter, nothing more than 50 ish gigatons feat which is lower than the meteor one.


----------



## Sablés (Apr 30, 2014)

Where was the discussion?


----------



## Byrd (Apr 30, 2014)

So whats the census of him cutting through space.. did he or did he not


----------



## Sablés (Apr 30, 2014)

He did. No clue where this teleport/dimension stuff is coming from though.


----------



## Iwandesu (Apr 30, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> He did. No clue where this teleport/dimension stuff is coming from though.


Does he have dimensional cut, then? (We discussed at a mainstream convo as no hst feats can be discussed at the normal obd directory. )


----------



## Revan Reborn (Apr 30, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Does he have dimensional cut, then? (We discussed at a mainstream convo as no hst feats can be discussed at the normal obd directory. )



So gremmy created a dimension with thousands of stars>>>>>>
"yea right" Tui.


----------



## Agmaster (Apr 30, 2014)

All signs point to intangi-cut as far as I read.  convo threads seems most active when im at work.


----------



## Zern227 (Apr 30, 2014)

Kubo really depicted whole gremmy fight poorly. As far as we can see is that that "pocket space" was closing and then we see gremmy cut with a small opening with Ken's sword and his eye showing. Since his eye is showing through the opposite side of his swing it leads me to believe he cut gremmy as the "pocket space" was closing.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 30, 2014)

Yeah, that holds as much truth also... its really hard to tell


----------



## Revan Reborn (Apr 30, 2014)

It was still cut through though, and then again kenny's sword made that huge hole and, kenpachi was grabbing the side of the hole which he made.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 30, 2014)

take it as you will but in my eyes, it seem like he stuck his sword out with the small opening and proceed to slash Gremmy... but then again how did he even grab the opening of the void?


----------



## Aphelion (Apr 30, 2014)

Byrd said:


> take it as you will but in my eyes, it seem like he stuck his sword out with the small opening and proceed to slash Gremmy



Well if you look at the bottom panel the hole has widened, so clearly he did affect it.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 30, 2014)

hmmm... more than likely yeah.. but its not to my concern don't really care... I was just wondering what was the census


----------



## BashFace (May 11, 2014)

Kenpachis teabag is equivalent to their strongest curb stomp, Kenpachi destroys.


----------



## Catalyst75 (May 12, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> I think the main issue was with classifying this as a pocket dimension space or just a teleport of a part of it. The former means dimension cut that is = hax and kenny having 50/50 of soloing bleach. The latter, nothing more than 50 ish gigatons feat which is lower than the meteor one.



Gremmy tried to kill Zaraki with something that had no form, so he dropped him into "the void of space".  Creating something like that would require generating a small pocket dimension (unless your Tyki, then you can simply reject the air and air pressure around your opponent).

In short Gremmy put Zaraki in there with the belief that Zaraki would not be able to "cut" his way out of it - yet Zaraki smashed out of it anyway.  The way Zaraki was grabbing the edge of the "space" he smashed through is reminiscent of lower-level Hollows, such as the basic Hollow and the Gillian (you can see an example of this in Uryu's contest with Ichigo - right at the beginning as a matter of fact).

But in the case of those Hollow, it is their natural ability to cross dimension responsible for those openings in "space" - when Gremmy put Zaraki in that "pocket of space", he intended for him to die there.

That being said, Zaraki probably meant it when he said there was nothing he can't cut.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking of that meteor, has anyone got a firm idea on what Zaraki did to it?

All that was left of it after Zaraki released Nozarashi were those small fragments (far fewer than what the meteor's actual size would yield if it were simply fragmented) with not a dust cloud in sight to indicate what happened to the rest of it.  There was simply a flash of light, and the meteor was obliterated.


----------



## 1Person (May 12, 2014)

Its possible that the meteor and its debris faded after  Kenny smashed it. The things gremmy imagines fade if he doesn't consciously focus on keeping them around.


----------



## Katsuargi (May 12, 2014)

Nah. He said the meteor in particular was real and even if he died it'd stick around.


----------



## ShadowReaper (May 12, 2014)

Naruto: 3-rd Raikage
One Piece: Law


----------



## Aphelion (May 12, 2014)

Might as well post this here.

I'm not sure what the standing on Kenny's attack power being scaled to the Meteor's KE is but I think the remaining events in the fight make it pretty clear he should get it one way or the other.

His suicide bomber was clearly stronger than the Meteor, given that it visibly tired Gremmy out, and he was surprised that Kenpachi survived, despite him having just intercepted the meteor without a scratch.  This gives Kenpachi the KE in terms of durability, but based on what happens next, it should also apply to attack power.

Gremmy attempts to recreate Kenpachi's "power" with his imagination as a means to attack him.  This most recent chapter it's made clear that he succeeded in doing that.  If he was able to comprehend Kenpachis power and thought it was an effective means of attack, that means that at the very least, Kenpachi's attack power was greater than either the Meteor impact or the clone explosion.


----------



## Iwandesu (May 12, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> Gremmy tried to kill Zaraki with something that had no form, so he dropped him into "the void of space".  Creating something like that would require generating a small pocket dimension (unless your Tyki, then you can simply reject the air and air pressure around your opponent).
> 
> In short Gremmy put Zaraki in there with the belief that Zaraki would not be able to "cut" his way out of it - yet Zaraki smashed out of it anyway.  The way Zaraki was grabbing the edge of the "space" he smashed through is reminiscent of lower-level Hollows, such as the basic Hollow and the Gillian (you can see an example of this in Uryu's contest with Ichigo - right at the beginning as a matter of fact).
> 
> ...


We actually calculated the meteor of gremmy:

Gremmy imagination limit is thus 58 gt, and kenpachi is 116+ due to surpassing it.
It is been a while since bleach can fight toe to toe with eos classic dragonball


----------



## Catalyst75 (May 13, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> We actually calculated the meteor of gremmy:
> 
> Gremmy imagination limit is thus 58 gt, and kenpachi is 116+ due to surpassing it.
> It is been a while since bleach can fight toe to toe with eos classic dragonball



That's based on the meteor's Kinetic energy - one that uses the ablation speed rather than the actual speed of a meteor that size.  

Well, when I did my rendition of the calc I used the ablation speed for simplicity's sake.  Either way, giving something within the range of an actual meteor's speed would exponentially multiply the meteor's kinetic energy - boot it up into the teraton range, to be precise.

My rendition of the calc put it into the Petatons.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 13, 2014)

It sure as hell wasn't Petatons


----------



## Catalyst75 (May 13, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> It sure as hell wasn't Petatons



Which one are you talking about?


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 13, 2014)

your rendition of the calc you mentioned


----------



## Vicotex (May 13, 2014)

It doesn't really matter


----------



## Iwandesu (May 13, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> That's based on the meteor's Kinetic energy - one that uses the ablation speed rather than the actual speed of a meteor that size.
> 
> Well, when I did my rendition of the calc I used the ablation speed for simplicity's sake.  Either way, giving something within the range of an actual meteor's speed would exponentially multiply the meteor's kinetic energy - boot it up into the teraton range, to be precise.
> 
> My rendition of the calc put it into the Petatons.


If you blog it and get accepted then here we are.
I ain't killing myself if bleach get more upgrades. 
I just would rather if op get something besides speed for strawhats.


----------



## Catalyst75 (May 13, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> If you blog it and get accepted then here we are.
> I ain't killing myself if bleach get more upgrades.
> I just would rather if op get something besides speed for strawhats.



I did blog it.  You can go look it up, if you want.

It is based on a potential way of scaling the Seireitei's size.  

I don't know about it being accepted, though...


----------



## Chad (May 13, 2014)

It's not... I bet you haven't even considered scaling SS off of Regi's Sereitei size.  That would be _direct_ pixel scaling instead of using the assumption that Rukongai districts = Japanese districts.


----------



## Catalyst75 (May 13, 2014)

Astral said:


> It's not... I bet you haven't even considered scaling SS off of Regi's Sereitei size.  That would be _direct_ pixel scaling instead of using the assumption that Rukongai districts = Japanese districts.



If I did that, the Soul Society's size would wind up being incredibly small overall - I'd be able to fit it several dozen times over in my home province.


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## LightspeedLanza (May 16, 2014)

SHikai patched Kenpachi would be Ace level in OP and 8 gate Gai level in Naruto, lol.


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## Darth Niggatron (May 16, 2014)

You're hilarious.
Sooo Ace is 8th gate Gai lvl?


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## LineageCold (May 16, 2014)

LightspeedLanza said:


> SHikai patched Kenpachi would be Ace level in OP and 8 gate Gai level in Naruto, lol.




Gai accidentally breathes to hard in kenpachi general direction.



*Spoiler*: __ 











gg.


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## Stan Lee (May 16, 2014)

Kenpachi would be medium to upper-high tier in Naruto.


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## tkpirate (May 16, 2014)

LightspeedLanza said:


> SHikai patched Kenpachi would be Ace level in OP and 8 gate Gai level in Naruto, lol.



lol no.Kenny will defeat most top and high tiers in one piece.except the logias.also 8th gated Gai will defeat all one piece characters except the logias.


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## LazyWaka (May 16, 2014)

Zero Requiem said:


> Kenpachi would be medium to upper-high tier in Naruto.



Kenpachi would easily be a top tier. Only thing above him are the Bijuu's, Madara, and Hashi.


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## Lurko (May 16, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> lol no.Kenny will defeat most top and high tiers in one piece.except the logias.also 8th gated Gai will defeat all one piece characters except the logias.



The only logias that might beat an 8 gate guy is Kizaru or Enel due to the fact of how the fuck are they supposed to beat him.


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## Darth Niggatron (May 16, 2014)

Do you even read One Piece?
>Ace
>Near admiral level
:heston
Also, admirals are only island level. Small country level in damage soak/endurance.


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## Lurko (May 16, 2014)

LightspeedLanza said:


> We didn't see Ace's full potential, but he is Whitebeard's commander, meaning he should be close to admiral level.
> 
> Now, as for Gai's power; you wanking him to continental doesn't actually make him continental. Just saying.



Nooo Ace got oneshotted by an admiral.


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## LightspeedLanza (May 16, 2014)

Lol @ island level admirals. Luffy is is currently island level. Don't give me that shit.


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## LazyWaka (May 16, 2014)

LightspeedLanza said:


> He was fighting on par with Aokiji, along with his peer Marco, who was able to react to Kizaru and fight him.
> 
> He only got killed by Akainu because he tried to protect Luffy and was exhausted (he was in prison, for a start).
> 
> The real question is: do you even read One Piece?



He launched one attack at Aokiji. That hardly qualifies as fighting him.



LightspeedLanza said:


> Lol @ island level admirals. Luffy is is currently island level. Don't give me that shit.



What did Luffy do that makes him island level?


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## LightspeedLanza (May 16, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> He launched one attack at Aokiji. That hardly qualifies as fighting him.
> 
> 
> 
> What did Luffy do that makes him island level?



He overpowered Aokiji's attack with his own IIRC. Marco was also fighting Kizaru at Marineford and wasn't losing horribly. I didn't say Ace could outright beat an admiral, but that was around their level in terms of physical stats. You're also forgetting that Ace was heavily nerfed due to spending time in Impel Down. He was torn up. 

Watch the movie. Luffy has an island level feat there. Not only that, he broke the ship in the Fishman Island arc, which was the size of an island, and was able to survive the pressure of the deep ocean (and didn't receive a scratch when it grazed the mountain, suggesting that its durability is far above any rock). 

Law also split an island. Lol at suggesting that Luffy is beneath him.


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## Lurko (May 16, 2014)

Luffy had help from sea kings and that was just a big ship not an island,   the movie isn't canon btw and he didn't overpower Aokiji's attack.


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## DarkTorrent (May 16, 2014)

deja vu**


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## LazyWaka (May 16, 2014)

> He overpowered Aokiji's attack with his own IIRC. Marco was also fighting Kizaru at Marineford and wasn't losing horribly. I didn't say Ace could outright beat an admiral, but that was around their level in terms of physical stats. You're also forgetting that Ace was heavily nerfed due to spending time in Impel Down. He was torn up.



He didn't overpower it so much as he just matched it. Matching one generic attack form an Admiral doesn't automatically make you on par with them.



> Watch the movie. Luffy has an island level feat there. Not only that, he broke the ship in the Fishman Island arc, which was the size of an island, and was able to survive the pressure of the deep ocean (and didn't receive a scratch when it grazed the mountain, suggesting that its durability is far above any rock).



Non canon movie.

Also, luffy only damaged part of the ship, not the entire thing, and that was after hundreds of punch's.

Water pressure doesn't work like that.



> Law also split an island. Lol at suggesting that Luffy is beneath him.



Law didn't split an island. He split a mountain.


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## Stan Lee (May 16, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Kenpachi would easily be a top tier. Only thing above him are the Bijuu's, Madara, and Hashi.



I regard the 9 Bijuu, Hashi, and EMS Madara as Upper high tier. Top tier in my eyes is Rikudou Obito and living Madara with both rinnegan.


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## Darth Niggatron (May 16, 2014)

Lol.
There's all sorts of hilarious shit on MVC.
Chinjao split an ice continent, he's continent level. 
I guess if someone splits a moon made from biscuits, the person would be moon level, eh? 
Lol@Luffybeingislandlvl.


> I regard the 9 Bijuu, Hashi, and
> EMS Madara as Upper high tier.



Wot?
Who do you regard as the top tiers, then?


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## Byrd (May 16, 2014)

Actually the value of the continent could greatly change depending on how big the continent is since we really use a low-end for it I think

Same with WB quake... I think they used the diameter of Alabasta... GM actually did one for the entire OP world which came out to be in the petatons

One thing when dealing with OP calcs is that Oda has so much stuff going off in the horizon it's sometimes hard to get a good measure on the size of things


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## LazyWaka (May 16, 2014)

Zero Requiem said:


> I regard the 9 Bijuu, Hashi, and EMS Madara as Upper high tier. *Top tier in my eyes is Rikudou Obito and living Madara with both rinnegan*.



What? The bijuu, Hashi, and Madara are top tiers (with first form Juubi probably being the cap.). V2 Juubi and up are easily god tiers.


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## LazyWaka (May 16, 2014)

Using austrailia (or alabasta, the two are almost the same size so really it doesn't matter) is what got us single digit gigatons for Chinjaos feat.

As for WB, the petaton value was assuming he shook the entire world.


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## Byrd (May 16, 2014)

Oh so that what is was, thanks for the correction


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## Darth Niggatron (May 16, 2014)

Byrd said:


> Actually the value of the continent could greatly change depending on how big the continent is since we really use a low-end for it I think



We always use low-ends.


> Same with WB quake... I think they used the diameter of Alabasta... GM actually did one for the entire OP world which came out to be in the petatons


Nope. The teraton WB calc was done with an actually calced distance.


> One thing when dealing with OP calcs is that Oda has so much stuff going off in the horizon it's sometimes hard to get a good measure on the size of things



True, that.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (May 16, 2014)

I don't see how bijuu 1-8 can be top tiers when they get picked on by top tiers(pretty much any version of madara, hashirama, even BM naruto with half the kyuubi could take on five...pretty sure 100% kurama could run all over them). Even obito was fighting the hachibi, kcm naruto, guy and kakashi with just the gedo mazo as support.

They seem a step below the top tiers.


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## Lurko (May 16, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> What? The bijuu, Hashi, and Madara are top tiers (with first form Juubi probably being the cap.). V2 Juubi and up are easily god tiers.



I can see why he did with all the shit going on right now, Jubbito, Jubbidara, Jubbi,  Indra, Ashura, Hagoromo, Hagoromo's brother, Kaguya, 8 gate guy, and Naruto and Sasuke now.


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## Mr. Black Leg (May 16, 2014)

LightspeedLanza said:


> He overpowered Aokiji's attack with his own IIRC. Marco was also fighting Kizaru at Marineford and wasn't losing horribly. I didn't say Ace could outright beat an admiral, but that was around their level in terms of physical stats. You're also forgetting that Ace was heavily nerfed due to spending time in Impel Down. He was torn up.
> 
> *Watch the movie. Luffy has an island level feat there. *



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



> *Not only that, he broke the ship in the Fishman Island arc, which was the size of an island,*



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



> *and was able to survive the pressure of the deep ocean (and didn't receive a scratch when it grazed the mountain, suggesting that its durability is far above any rock).*



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



> *Law also split an island. Lol at suggesting that Luffy is beneath him.*



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



I could only catch my breath minutes later, man you almost killed me, seriously . Now let's get serious :

The attack was matched . That does not indicate someone is even near Admiral, Kuzan was not serious at all . Or are you suggesting Admiral level Zoro ?

Non fucking cannon, kid .

He didn't break it, he destroyed a *part *of it, and the ship was HALF the size of Fishman Island .

> Survives deep ocean 
> Is now Island level(Gigaton wield)

We have some things in real life, such as some diving suits, that are able to go deep in ocean with people, but trust me, if the energy of even a 100 kiloton was forced in the suit, it would be completely fucked .

Law didn't split an island, he could cut some mountains . Splitting an island is equal to splitting the ISLAND ITSELF(Ground) in two, not the things above, or on it(Like mountains or buildings, that is what he did) . And that's on megaton scale .


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## Byrd (May 16, 2014)

> Nope. The teraton WB calc was done with an actually calced distance.



Naw it was using the distance to SA I think or past it... we had no idea where that one island is located on the map



> We have some things in real life, such as some diving suits, that are able to go deep in ocean with people, but trust me, if the energy of even a 100 kiloton was forced in the suit, it would be completely fucked .



There is no diving suit in the world that can stand under 7000 meters deep in the ocean.. although the deepest submarines can go is around 10,000 meters


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## Tacocat (May 16, 2014)

Byrd said:


> Actually the value of the continent could greatly change depending on how big the continent is since we really use a low-end for it I think
> 
> Same with WB quake... I think they used the diameter of Alabasta... GM actually did one for the entire OP world which came out to be in the petatons
> 
> One thing when dealing with OP calcs is that Oda has so much stuff going off in the horizon it's sometimes hard to get a good measure on the size of things



One could potentially just square law a continent size using the area of our smallest continent.

(150000/12742)^2*7.692e+12=1.066e15m^2

1.066e15*84.74620=9.034e16m^3

9.034e16*917=8.3e19kg

.5*8.3e19*9.69149^2=3.89e21J

or about 931 gigatons. Or something.

Not that anyone will actually approve of this method.


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## Darth Niggatron (May 17, 2014)

Kil'jaeden said:


> That unfortunately sounds like something someone who didn't read/understand the calc would say. Do you think the substance is not taken into account?


Dafuq are you talking about? I meant that properly calcing it, factoring in the material yields island lvl energies, whereas the MVC just tags it with 'continent level'.
Never mind that splitting an actual(irl rock) continent would
yield small country lvl at most.


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## LazyWaka (May 17, 2014)

Honestly the reason the result comes out as so low is because he really didn't even split the continent, he split the ice on top of it.


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## ZenithXAbyss (May 17, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> He launched one attack at Aokiji. That hardly qualifies as fighting him.
> 
> 
> 
> What did Luffy do that makes him island level?



Well, there's that island level skypeia luffy, iirc.


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## ZenithXAbyss (May 17, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Honestly the reason the result comes out as so low is because he really didn't even split the continent, he split the ice on top of it.



Nah, it's because we used alabasta as a base, which is just an island in the verse.


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## Chad (May 17, 2014)

Low end time frame for that calc only puts Loofie at large city level. 

Did Chinjao actually _move_ the continent? How do we know he didn't just pulverize that chunk of ice?


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## ZenithXAbyss (May 17, 2014)

> Did Chinjao actually move the continent?


He moved the ice on top, which is covering the continent.


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## LazyWaka (May 17, 2014)

Island level+.


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