# How Strong is Mihawk?



## Rob (Oct 19, 2014)

I've been seeing a lot of bullshit lately, so I just want to see what the consensus is. 

I thought it was made pretty damn clear that he is equal to Shanks, give or take the fight by the skin of their teeth. 
This logically means that he can tango with Admirals just as well as any Yonko not named Edward Newgate could. 

I mean, I remember the days when he was wanked to the heavens, but lately I've been seeing a crap-ton of down-playing. 

Considering we have nothing on BM or Kaido yet, I'll just assume that the majority here believes that Shanks ~ Kaido ~ Big Mom (Not equal, but all very close). 

Now here comes the Yonko vs. Admiral garbage (Sorry), but I also feel like the majority here thinks that Shanks may be slightly stronger than your average Admiral. I'm referring to Kizaru and Aokiji of course, since we can all agree that Sakazuki is the Alpha-Male, and since Fuji is still a mystery Power-wise (I get that he has shown a lot of feats, but he has yet to have been portrayed with the C3 like the 3 of them have with each other... if that makes sense... As in... Oda wanted us to think of the C3 as equal, with Sakazuki at the top, hence the Sakazuki vs. Kuzan fight) 

So, going off of this, 

Yonko (Shanks, Kaido BM) ~ Sakazuki > Kuzan ~ Kizaru 

Now, where do we place Mihawk. 

Like I said before, I'm pretty sure Oda made it clear that he thinks of Mihawk and Shanks as near-equal (With the winner being a mystery still today) since they supposedly fought numerous times in the past. 

So I don't get why it is so hard for some people to feel that Mihawk can hang with Admirals and Yonko, or even beat a few of them. 

It's not a far-fetched thought. It's a logical one. 

Anyway, vote in the poll and discuss.


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## J★J♥ (Oct 19, 2014)

Pre ts Luffy level or weaker.


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## Lawliet (Oct 19, 2014)

He's as strong as any other admiral and yonkou.


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## Luke (Oct 19, 2014)

Strong enough to push Kizaru to extreme diff.


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## Ruse (Oct 19, 2014)

I've changed my ranking of Mihawk recently, I used to think Yonkou/Admiral >= or > Mihawk but I put him on par with them so Shanks ~ Akainu > Mihawk ~ Other Admirals/Yonkou


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 19, 2014)

Yes assuming he is equal to Shanks then by default he can hang with Admirals+Other Yonkou.

The thing is some individuals think Mihawk is not only weaker then Shanks but a lot weaker then Shanks. Some even say he is a high tier. 

So it should go without saying that the people that think Mihawk<=>Shanks also think he is on the same level as the yonkou/admirals. can't really have it any other way.


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## Imagine (Oct 19, 2014)

Admiral/Yonkou level. Exactly where in between the other admiral/yonkou characters is still a mystery, though.


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## Datassassin (Oct 19, 2014)

Young Shanks was matched by Mihawk, yes, but young Shanks was also wounded by a weaker version of Yami Teach who is someone that was trash for WB/struggled against Ace/etc. Shanks had to have simply made tremendous improvements, so I see Mihawk giving the Shanks of today a truly tough fight but not able to defeat him.

Mihawk has a 50% chance of beating any of the C3 (who I see as relatively equal, each able to beat a peer) or in other words just on par with them, soundly above Fujitora, likely soundly above Big Mom as well.


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## Rob (Oct 19, 2014)

I'm glad the Poll is as one-sided as it is. 

Maybe I'm going crazy, but I could have sworn that some people here think that Mihawk is significantly weaker than the Admirals/Yonko.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Oct 19, 2014)

tl;dr

He certainly can hang out with the Yonkou/Admirals and unlike some, is genuinely worthy of being placed in that bracket. I don't think it would be that odd to imagine him as a Yonkou captain or an Admiral in the marines. 

However on a more individual basis I'm not really that confident that he could beat any of the current or previous Admirals and Yonko that we've seen thus far in the manga. Think all of them have just that little bit extra quality that would enable them to beat him.


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## Valdie (Oct 19, 2014)

My inconvenient top-tier tier list.

Shanks > Akainu > Big Mom > Kaido > Aokiji > Mihawk > Kizaru > Fujitora

But yes, I believe that Mihawk can hang with the Yonkou/Admirals.


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## savior2005 (Oct 19, 2014)

he almost got beat by vista. i put them about the same strength.


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## Magnet40 (Oct 19, 2014)

To me I believe he can crack any admiral on their ass. An I believe he can beat big mom too


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## Jellal Fernandes (Oct 19, 2014)

He fought with Shanks back in the days when Shanks was wounded by Teach without any DF powers...And those battles don't have a defined winner. I.e he was equal to Shanks before Shanks became a Yonkou. 

However Shanks physically seems to have matured and is a Yonkou. Not to mention he sent BB running with the threat of a war between his crew and BB's (mind you BB was the proud owner of the two strongest DF's). This shows that Shanks has gotten much much stronger or else why would BB run from him. Thats why I don't put too much into Mihawk fighting with Shanks back in the day. Hence I don't consider him on an admiral/Yonkou level. Thats not saying he would get one shotted its just saying he can't defeat them at the moment and will need to show more to prove he can hang with an admiral/yonkou. You can also see this with his feats of stalemating Vista and failing to kill Luffy with multiple chances. Admirals and Yonkou would produce better results and have produced better results.

Admiral/Yonkou > Mihawk.


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## Ruse (Oct 19, 2014)

Jellal Fernandes said:


> He fought with Shanks back in the days when Shanks was wounded by Teach without any DF powers...And those battles don't have a defined winner. I.e he was equal to Shanks before Shanks became a Yonkou.
> 
> However Shanks physically seems to have matured and is a Yonkou. Not to mention he sent BB running with the threat of a war between his crew and BB's (mind you BB was the proud owner of the two strongest DF's). This shows that Shanks has gotten much much stronger or else why would BB run from him. Thats why I don't put too much into Mihawk fighting with Shanks back in the day. Hence I don't consider him on an admiral/Yonkou level. Thats not saying he would get one shotted its just saying he can't defeat them at the moment and will need to show more to prove he can hang with an admiral/yonkou. You can also see this with his feats of stalemating Vista and *failing to kill Luffy with multiple chances. Admirals and Yonkou would produce better results and have produced better results.*
> 
> Admiral/Yonkou > Mihawk.



 Luffy is the main character of course he's going to fail you can't use that as a mark against Mihawk, The three Admirals failed to kill Luffy as well


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## Furinji Saiga (Oct 19, 2014)

Jellal Fernandes said:


> He fought with Shanks back in the days when Shanks was wounded by Teach without any DF powers...And those battles don't have a defined winner. I.e he was equal to Shanks before Shanks became a Yonkou.
> 
> However Shanks physically seems to have matured and is a Yonkou. Not to mention he sent BB running with the threat of a war between his crew and BB's (mind you BB was the proud owner of the two strongest DF's). This shows that Shanks has gotten much much stronger or else why would BB run from him. Thats why I don't put too much into Mihawk fighting with Shanks back in the day. Hence I don't consider him on an admiral/Yonkou level. Thats not saying he would get one shotted its just saying he can't defeat them at the moment and will need to show more to prove he can hang with an admiral/yonkou. You can also see this with his feats of stalemating Vista and failing to kill Luffy with multiple chances. Admirals and Yonkou would produce better results and have produced better results.
> 
> Admiral/Yonkou > Mihawk.



We do not even know when Shanks was wounded by Teach,  its possible he gave it to rookie Shanks around the time he was on Rogers crew/or shortly after Roger died. 

Oda hiding Shanks face here makes it seem like it could have been inflicted on a young rookie Shanks. 



Mihawk and Shanks in comparison have been dueling each other for a much longer period of time, it was a full out rivalry fighting everyday, when Shanks was a very renowned pirate. The fact WB himself speaks of them as legendary should be proof that they were indeed between very powerful and well known people so it should be counted as legitimate hype and not be discredited. 

Not like it matters much, Mihawk's main hype comes from being the WSS and the one Zoro is after.

Man you have such a double standard when it comes to Mihawk 

As for the Shanks being a Yonkou/failing to kill Luffy argument. I just can't


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## Extravlad (Oct 19, 2014)

Mihawk is stronger than Shanks.


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## trance (Oct 19, 2014)

About as strong as the Admirals/Emperors. I think he's stronger than some and weaker than others.


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## Extravlad (Oct 20, 2014)

I think Akainu,Dragon and Mihawk are the 3 strongest characters atm Kaido is the big unknown because based on hype he's the strongest character.


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## Zeus. (Oct 20, 2014)

Roƅ said:


> I've been seeing a lot of bullshit lately, so I just want to see what the consensus is.
> 
> I thought it was made pretty damn clear that he is equal to Shanks, give or take the fight by the skin of their teeth.
> This logically means that he can tango with Admirals just as well as any Yonko not named Edward Newgate could.
> ...


Everything about this post is about right. Tho re-reading about the admirals as a whole and their portrayal they seem to be seen as much of a threat in terms of strength to the Yonkous as a whole. Of course this whole Yonkou~Admiral/Yonkou>=Admiral debate is still up in the air until we see a legitimate battle go down between these characters.

And about Mihawk, yes he can generally be placed around the same level as the Yonkous/Admirals.


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## Canute87 (Oct 20, 2014)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> tl;dr
> 
> He certainly can hang out with the Yonkou/Admirals and unlike some, is genuinely worthy of being placed in that bracket. I don't think it would be that odd to imagine him as a Yonkou captain or an Admiral in the marines.
> 
> However on a more individual basis I'm not really that confident that he could beat any of the current or previous Admirals and Yonko that we've seen thus far in the manga. Think all of them have just that little bit extra quality that would enable them to beat him.



Yeah agreed.  Mihawk needs to step up.

Can't expect people to believe that Vista wouldn't get steamed over by shanks.


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## Magician (Oct 20, 2014)

No way in the living fuck can Mihawk _ever_ beat an Admiral/Yonko. Never in his life. The man's Marco level at best. 

You guys need to get over your sword fetishes.


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## Gohara (Oct 20, 2014)

I would say he's between Yonkou level and Admiral level- or at least around as strong as the strongest Admiral, pre time skip Akainu.


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## Datassassin (Oct 20, 2014)

Magician said:


> No way in the living fuck can Mihawk _ever_ beat an Admiral/Yonko. Never in his life. The man's Marco level at best.
> 
> You guys need to get over your sword fetishes.


In your view, it'd be logical for a weakened Akainu to be able to treat a direct unblocked slash from the World's Strongest Swordsman as if it were a pesky mosquito?

If you substitute Mihawk in for Marco with Vista, that scene would seem absolutely nonsensical to me.


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## Amol (Oct 20, 2014)

I see Mihawk as Top Tier but usually against any admiral or Yonkou I gave victory to opposition.
He can push them high to extreme diff .
If and only if Fuji is significantly weaker than C3 (i am not claiming he is) then Mihawk has chance of beating him.
Saying Mihawk is high tier is bullshit of course.
Mihawk lacks feats that would support the rediculous hype his fans gave him.
For me Shanks/ Mihawk argument means nothing considering they hadn't fought since more than decade.
At that time Shanks was someone who lost his arm to sea king and got slashed by DFless Teach. 
So we have no fair means to compare him with Shanks .
I also don't scale him to EoS Zoro level because he is not Zoro's EoS opponent.


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## Kaiser (Oct 20, 2014)

I put him on par with Shanks(maybe even stronger) personally and until proven otherwise, nothing disproves that. He didn't even engage himself fully in battle yet


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## Peppoko (Oct 20, 2014)

Yonko > Admirals = Mihawk


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## PirateHunter Eddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Mihawk can definitely Hang with the Admirals though in my books he not really beating any maybe Fujitora. His whole hype is honestly stemming from the fact that he is Grandmaster Zoro end goal take that away and am pretty sure people would also think he losses to an Admiral very high to extreme diff.


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## Ghost (Oct 20, 2014)

He is right there with the Yonko and Admirals. 

He can defeat some and lose to some.


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## Pirao (Oct 20, 2014)

Same tier, can defeat some and loses to some.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 20, 2014)

Strong enough to be called Worlds Strongest Swordsman or WSS.


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## The Bloody Nine (Oct 20, 2014)

Only a high tier. He can't hang with the big boy's. Just put any of the top teirs we know of in Mihawls shoes during the war and they would have  preformed infinitely better.


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## Nox (Oct 20, 2014)

Mihawk is Admiral level. However, when it comes to a fight with those who have reached that caliber I would back any one else but him. FYI Marco and any other top tier below him IMO is not at Admiral level.


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## Freechoice (Oct 20, 2014)

I like Mihawk. A lot.

I'm very interested in how he became the man he is, the struggles he went through etc.

I just don't see him being that strong. He's inferior to the Admirals and Yonkou in my eyes, he's in their general vicinity, but not up there.

Don't ask me why, because I don't have an answer _that would satisfy you_.

Is my opinion stupid?

No. Fuck you.


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## Gilgamesh (Oct 20, 2014)

Mihawk is not equal to any of the Yonko or Admirals.

Blackbeard scarred Shank pre-Yam Yami does that mean he was Yonko level pre skip? of course not. Mihawk dueling Shanks 10+ years ago means shit in the present.

Mihawk fans are so full hypocrisy and double standards it's shocking they haven't collectively choked on them.


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## GucciBandana (Oct 20, 2014)

safe to assume he's the strongest Shichibukai, I think he's around Shanks level but I won't put Shanks above Kizaru, the 3 pre timeskip Admirals would go Akainu >= Kizaru >= Aokiji, but the difference is really small, Shanks would be where Kizaru's at, and Mihawk is either right there or equal to Aokiji.


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## Vengeance (Oct 20, 2014)

Imo he can definitely hang with the Admirals or Yonkou, for reasons already provided countless times.
I respect differing opinions of course, but  @anyone who acts like it is impossible for him to be on that level.


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## RF (Oct 20, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Yeah agreed.  Mihawk needs to step up.
> 
> Can't expect people to believe that Vista wouldn't get steamed over by shanks.



Consider Vista the equivalent to Yassop in Shanks' crew. 

Do you think Shanks could just roll over one of his strongest subordinates? Doubt it.

I swear, the Mihawk/Vista clash is either terribly overblown or completely ignored, it's like people can't find a middle ground. 

OT: Mihawk can beat a Yonko/admiral and is on their level.


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## Patrick (Oct 20, 2014)

He's at their level.


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## Rob (Oct 20, 2014)

Magician said:


> No way in the living fuck can Mihawk _ever_ beat an Admiral/Yonko. Never in his life. The man's Marco level at best.
> 
> You guys need to get over your sword fetishes.






*Spoiler*: __ 



And why is that? I'm not even a Swordsman-wanker or whatever, I'm just trying to be logical here.




@Everyone using the shit-YYnM Teach argument...

So Shanks is the only one that grew? For all we know Mihawk was not the WSS at that time. 
He can grow too.


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## Monster (Oct 20, 2014)

World's Strongest Man


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## Dunno (Oct 20, 2014)

He can definitely hang with them. If it turns out that Shanks is considered a swordsman - which in my opinion is quite likely - then he has a good chance of being the WSM. For now I'd say Mihawk ~ Shanks >= Kaido ~ Big Mom >= Akainu >= Aokiji ~ Kizaru ~ Fujitora. By the way guys, the Shanks - Mihawk argument has nothing to do with the fact that they were even when they fought, it has to do with the fact that Mihawk currently is the WSS and Shanks currently is likely to be a swordsman.


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## Venom (Oct 20, 2014)

Magician said:


> No way in the living fuck can Mihawk _ever_ beat an Admiral/Yonko. Never in his life. The man's Marco level at best.
> 
> You guys need to get over your sword fetishes.





I mean I respect everyone's opinion as long as it doesn't "cross the line".
But dafuq is this shit?
So just because the opinion of other people differ from your's they have "sword fetishes"?
There are sufficient reasons to think why Mihawk is "that" strong and there are sufficient reasons to think why Mihawk is not "that" strong.
Why offend people who think otherwise?
Or it may be that you can provide us evidence to why Mihawk is certainly only Marco level at best and why our opinion on this matter is wrong.
Feel free to share them.
The only problem here would be that you won't be able to do that.
Or is it possible that we are talking with Oda in person but don't know anything about it yet?
So Oda tell us why Mihawk is only "Marco level at best" "can't beat any Admirals/Yonkous" and anyone who thinks otherwise = "Sword Fetish".


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## Sabco (Oct 20, 2014)

An admiral level

waeker than akainu and kizaru but stronger  and fujitora and Ryokugyo and arguably aokiji


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## Unclear Justice (Oct 20, 2014)

Good thread Rob. Would've repped if I could.

You know my opinion.

Mihawk = Shanks and both of them are in the Top 5 strongest characters alive.


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## Canute87 (Oct 20, 2014)

Meth said:


> *Consider Vista the equivalent to Yassop in Shanks' crew. *
> 
> Do you think Shanks could just roll over one of his strongest subordinates? Doubt it.
> 
> ...



Why? Because they have some history that nobody knows about they are suddenly on the same level?

either way

I don't see yassop being an M3 equivalent, somebody who auger is going to best who in turn will be defeated by ussop somebody Luffy will forever be stronger than and will be able to roll over.

That's how I see it.


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## Freechoice (Oct 20, 2014)




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## Canute87 (Oct 20, 2014)

What? **


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## Freechoice (Oct 20, 2014)

That wasn't directed at you, my good friend.


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## trance (Oct 20, 2014)

Dunno said:


> He can definitely hang with them. If it turns out that Shanks is considered a swordsman - which in my opinion is quite likely - *then he has a good chance of being the WSM*. For now I'd say Mihawk ~ Shanks >= Kaido ~ Big Mom >= Akainu >= Aokiji ~ Kizaru ~ Fujitora. By the way guys, the Shanks - Mihawk argument has nothing to do with the fact that they were even when they fought, it has to do with the fact that Mihawk currently is the WSS and Shanks currently is likely to be a swordsman.



Mihawk being WSS *and* WSM would be bullshit.


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## barreltheif (Oct 20, 2014)

Trance said:


> Mihawk being WSS *and* WSM would be bullshit.




Why? That's like saying that it's bullshit for WB to be WSM and the strongest paramecia user, or for Garp to be WSM and the strongest brawler, or for Akainu to be WSM and the strongest logia.
The WSM will always be the strongest in his particular style of fighting.


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## Dunno (Oct 20, 2014)

Trance said:


> Mihawk being WSS *and* WSM would be bullshit.



It would be just as bullshit as Akainu being the WSM(arine) and WSM, Dragon being the WMDM and WSM or Shanks being the WSS and WSM. My point is that if you are the WSM, you're automatically the WS(what-ever-you-are). It's true in the real world as well. Assume that Wayne Gretzky is the best hockey player of all time (BHPoaT). It then follows that he is the best Canadian hockey player of all time (BCHPoaT). Or are you possibly of the opinion that swordsmen have some inherent disadvantage which makes it impossible for a swordsman to become the strongest? In that case your argument makes sense. 

By the way, I hope we're not talking about who would officially be the WSM like in Whitebeard's case? Because it's clear as hell that no-one currently is far enough above the rest to claim that title.


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## trance (Oct 20, 2014)

What I'm saying is the chances of Mihawk being WSM aren't that high. I just worded it somewhat wrong.


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## Dunno (Oct 20, 2014)

Trance said:


> What I'm saying is the chances of Mihawk being WSM aren't that high. I just worded it somewhat wrong.



Well, that's fine.


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## Luke (Oct 20, 2014)

Zοrο said:


> I mean I respect everyone's opinion as long as it doesn't "cross the line".
> But dafuq is this shit?
> So just because the opinion of other people differ from your's they have "sword fetishes"?
> There are sufficient reasons to think why Mihawk is "that" strong and there are sufficient reasons to think why Mihawk is not "that" strong.
> ...



I'm pretty sure he was kidding.


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## RF (Oct 20, 2014)

Mihawk being WSM.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Oct 20, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Mihawk is stronger than Shanks.



I was looking for this option in the poll but couldnt find it. Please fix


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## monkey d ace (Oct 20, 2014)

mihawk being a very possible zoro's EOS opponent is the only thing right now that suggest he can hang with these guys, is it enough for me to put him at that level with his current showings? No. but that may change afterwards


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## Crocodile Atlas (Oct 20, 2014)

Mihawk is not admiral level but would give all of them a tough fight, so he can roll with them.


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## Whitebeard (Oct 20, 2014)

I'd place Mihawk at the same level as Shanks (so ~Yonkou/Admirals and a few others). Shanks being a Yonkou doesn't exactly mean that he's individually stronger than a lone wolf like Mihawk, Shanks didn't become one all by himself.


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## savior2005 (Oct 20, 2014)

vista couldnt do anything to akainu when he had help from marco. vista nearly beat mihawk SINGLEHANDEDLY. akainu>>>vista=mihawk.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Oct 20, 2014)

savior2005 said:


> vista couldnt do anything to akainu when he had help from marco. *vista nearly beat mihawk SINGLEHANDEDLY*. akainu>>>vista=mihawk.



Far be it from me to defend Mihawk on here, but that's just complete rubbish.


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## Bohemian Knight (Oct 20, 2014)

Can hang with Admirals/Yonko. He's got the hype, not too mention that they pretty said it when the introduction of the nature of his relationship to Shanks, and until further clarification that Shanks was weaker at that point, this will not change.


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## Rob (Oct 20, 2014)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Far be it from me to defend Mihawk on here, but that's just complete rubbish.



AK defending Mihawk to the slightest. 

Sigged. 
Negged. 
Reported. 
Repped. 
Negged.


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## Dr. White (Oct 20, 2014)

Bohemian Knight said:


> Can hang with Admirals/Yonko. He's got the hype, not too mention that they pretty said it when the introduction of the nature of his relationship to Shanks, and until further clarification that Shanks was weaker at that point, this will not change.



Lol no. Neither has ever been indicated to be weaker than the other.


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## Rob (Oct 20, 2014)

What Whitey-Tighty said. 

At least I don't recall that.


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## Dunno (Oct 20, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> Lol no. *Neither has ever been indicated to be weaker than the other.*



Isn't that exactly what he said?


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## Bohemian Knight (Oct 20, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> Lol no. Neither has ever been indicated to be weaker than the other.



Right you are. I never said that. I said Shanks and Mihawk have the same hype/portrayal. I said until something changes, since people always bring up the "Shanks was weaker then" bs


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## Bohemian Knight (Oct 20, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Isn't that exactly what he said?



Yes I did, sir


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## Extravlad (Oct 20, 2014)

> Lol no. Neither has ever been indicated to be weaker than the other.


World's strongest swordsman.


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## convict (Oct 20, 2014)

I’ll start this off by saying that I completely understand why people don’t consider Mihawk to be on the level of Yonkou/Emperors.  I know where you guys are coming from seeing Mihawk’s portrayal during the war compared to them. However, I’ll try to explain why I think you are wrong. Currently, I will explain why Mihawk is hyped so much from most fans. I would also like like to address Mihawk’s seemingly underwhelming portrayal during the war so pretty soon I will write about that later in this thread. 

On to arguments for his hype as Admiral/Yonkou level:

First is the common end-goal argument. We know Mihawk is Zoro’s endgame goal. Sure _we don’t know if he will in fact be the final opponent that Zoro faces_ but that doesn’t necessarily degrade from the fact that acquiring his level of power is Zoro’s ultimate goal. The goal of reaching Mihawk at this stage in the story is meant to derive as much significance and difficulty as Nami’s goal of mapping the entire world or Chopper’s goal of finding a cure for all diseases. 

Do people really think Zoro would aspire to be someone who is not amongst the best this world has to offer? One can’t honestly expect that to be the case seeing who Zoro is as a person (he is more fixated on strength than anyone else in the crew) and the significance he and his goal hold to the story. How can one not undermine the future first mate of the Pirate King if his goal is actually far less than what he can potentially achieve as the Rayleigh of this generation? His benchmark should be someone who he struggles obscenely to reach. I really urge people who disagree with Mihawk’s standing as one of the strongest out there to ponder on this because there is a reason this is the strongest argument.

Ok now here is another common yet highly controversial topic. Mihawk is Shanks’s rival. Yes, I realize this point always gets a lot of flack. However, Mihawk and Shanks both had many duels _when they both were already thoroughly respected and established pirates_. Their duels would reverberate across the entire grand line and even reached Whitebeard of all people’s ears. This signifies that they weren’t rookies or something like that when they were rivals. They were already monsters that shook the Grand Line. We also know that the embers of their rivalry still haven’t faded to this day as Shanks still reached for his sword as soon as Mihawk came to his Island. Mihawk’s presence still instilled so much awe and fear in Shanks’s subordinates even though their captain is a damn Yonkou.  

Furthermore, since then there really is no overt evidence suggesting Shanks completely outstripped Mihawk in growth rate. Shanks became an emperor sure but Mihawk became the world’s greatest swordsman. He is not the type to lead. He is a loner who strives for individual brilliance and just as Shanks reached the pinnacle of his path in life Mihawk reached the pinnacle of his own. And I am aware many don’t believe Shanks to be a swordsman so I won’t dwell on why I disagree except to state that it really takes a piss on Mihawk and their rivalry if Shanks was actually holding back his true power and only limiting himself to swordsmanship so he wouldn’t own Mihawk in their duels; a notion that hasn’t remotely been implied and which completely goes against how they are depicted as rivals.

I’d be remiss if I didn’t delve into the world’s strongest title. I agree that the title of world’s strongest can be given to anything e.g world’s strongest sniper/woman/spear-wielder or whatever. All of the potential fields in which one is world’s strongest in do not have to indicate being top tier. However, Oda has indeed been extremely sparing in his introduction of someone as the world’s greatest. In fact, only Kaido, Whitebeard, and Dragon have received such an honor and lets be honest, that is some great company Mihawk is standing in. Mihawk is a Shichibukai but he is special in that he has another more substantial title that puts him on a more equal footing to Admirals/Yonkou, even if the rest of the Shichibukai are not.

Finally, let us just look at Rayleigh. Most of us agree that he is admiral level even now. Shanks is one thing but I really don’t know why people insist Rayleigh wasn’t a swordsman.  He is Zoro’s parallel, he talked about not using his sword in a while when suddenly thrust in a combat situation, and he fought exclusively with a sword against Kizaru – a frikkin admiral. But, even if you don’t think Rayleigh is a swordsman you have to admit that in his fight against Kizaru he fought him equally as a swordsman. Let me repeat: Even if Rayleigh isn’t a swordsman exclusively he only used sword skills to hold off an admiral. Thus, Mihawk canonically should at least be able to do that much as a better swordsman than Rayleigh. Even if you think Mihawk would lose to Rayleigh overall, you can’t deny that he wouldn’t lose in swordsmanship. Hence, Rayleigh fending off an admiral in swordsmanship alone indirectly show us that Mihawk has sufficient swordsmanship to at least hang with an admiral as well (and so he has the necessary prerequisites such as physical stats/Haki etc. to do so).


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Oct 20, 2014)

convict said:


> I?ll start this off by saying that I completely understand why people don?t consider Mihawk to be on the level of Yonkou/Emperors.  I know where you guys are coming from seeing Mihawk?s portrayal during the war compared to them. However, I?ll try to explain why I think you are wrong. Currently, I will explain why Mihawk is hyped so much from most fans. I would also like like to address Mihawk?s seemingly underwhelming portrayal during the war so pretty soon I will write about that later in this thread.
> 
> On to arguments for his hype as Admiral/Yonkou level:
> 
> ...



You are too good for this forum. Like a flower in a turd. Repped


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## Admiral Kizaru (Oct 20, 2014)

Good post Convict. Agree with nearly all of that. 

Though two minor issues I'd raise would be:

1) You refer to the reaction of Shanks' crew when Mihawk arrived on their island. It's a good point though I'd hesitate to use it because iirc it happened right near the start of the manga after Luffy gets his first bounty. At that point I'm honestly very sceptical that Oda even had the concept of the Yonkou planned, let alone that Shanks was one of them. In that context, it kind of diminishes its impact.  


2) Whilst Rayleigh did fight on a par with Kizaru in terms of swordplay, it's important to note that Kizaru specialty isn't swordsmanship either. In fact, I'd wager that Rayleigh would be far more reliant and honed in it than Kizaru mainly due to the lack of DF power on his part.  




Roƅ said:


> AK defending Mihawk to the slightest.
> 
> Sigged.
> Negged.
> ...



Tbh looking back over it, I think it was my anti Vista agenda emanating there rather than any sort of love for Mihawk.


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## convict (Oct 20, 2014)

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying old Rayleigh is equal to Kizaru overall. He simply managed to hold him off  for a time which in of itself is a remarkable feat seeing how physically (and otherwise) overwhelming the admirals are.

Additionally, you raise a good point about what Oda did and didn't plan. In my opinion one thing he planned out for sure even that early on in the story is Shanks's status as one of the strongest characters in the story. Shanks was the main character's idol and that is always a strong reason to assume so and it was also implied that he was already extremely wanted by the marines at that point.


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## Bohemian Knight (Oct 20, 2014)

convict said:


> I?ll start this off by saying that I completely understand why people don?t consider Mihawk to be on the level of Yonkou/Emperors.  I know where you guys are coming from seeing Mihawk?s portrayal during the war compared to them. However, I?ll try to explain why I think you are wrong. Currently, I will explain why Mihawk is hyped so much from most fans. I would also like like to address Mihawk?s seemingly underwhelming portrayal during the war so pretty soon I will write about that later in this thread.
> 
> On to arguments for his hype as Admiral/Yonkou level:
> 
> ...



Rep-worthy as buck.

With the part in bold I'll just add that Mihawk clearly has no use for the power and influence that come with the title of Yonko. Becoming a Yonko would require him to gather a crew, which he has no use for.

The title of Shichibukai fits him quite nicely: it allows him to roam the seas in search of worthy potential as he did with Zoro. At the same time, he's able to do all this without naval pursuance, because ain't nobody got time for Admirals up their ass.


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## Extravlad (Oct 20, 2014)

why do ppl write so much when he have evidence of Mihawk being as strong as the Yonko?
He is basically Shanks with 2 arms


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## Kaiser (Oct 20, 2014)

Nice post Convict and i've a question. Is it me or did Garp say the shichibukais were created to counter yonkous? I ask because it could imply Shanks was already a yonkou 14years ago since we know shichibukais exists for at least that long


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## convict (Oct 20, 2014)

Kaiser said:


> Nice post Convict and i've a question. Is it me or did Garp say the shichibukais were created to counter yonkous? I ask because it could imply Shanks was already a yonkou 14years ago since we know shichibukais exists for at least that long



Even if they were raised specifically to counter the Yonkou that doesn't necessarily imply Shanks personally was a Yonkou at that time. He may have risen up and become a Yonkou after then even if other Yonkou were present before him. Additionally, in this current pirate era Shichibukai are primarily a buffer against Yonkou but I am not sure that this was their primary purpose upon conception of the system.


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## Coruscation (Oct 20, 2014)

Oda did have the Yonkou planned even back then. Remember how we were told that "the Grand Line is considered such a dangerous place because of the Three Great Powers that inhabit it" by Yosaku (or was it Johnny?) in the lead-up to the Arlong arc. You can argue that maybe the concept wasn't completely solidified and detailed the way it is now, and that's fine, but he definitely already knew what those three powers were. Oda's not the type to write something like that without knowing what he's referring to. And you can be sure he already knew Shanks would be one of those greatest pirates.


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## Canute87 (Oct 20, 2014)

How do you remember that shit?

I barely even remember what those two look like much less anything they said.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Oct 20, 2014)

Without wanting to come across as sycophantic, your memory when it comes to these One Piece related details is second to none on here Corus so I'll take your word for it. I personally can't remember anything long term significant Johnny and Yosaku said other than first mentioning Fishman Island and Jinbe. 

It does seem that Oda had the concept down even that early then. I'd always thought given the expansion in the story from Oda's initial plans (it was initially meant to be 5 years), the concept of the Yonkou ruling the latter part of the GL would have been something he decided on at a later stage.


Edit - Panel here. 

It was Yosaku


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## savior2005 (Oct 20, 2014)

jozu>mihawk>=vista


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## Rob (Oct 20, 2014)

Jozu > Mihawk?


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## StrawHat4Life (Oct 20, 2014)

He's at least as strong as Shanks.


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## savior2005 (Oct 20, 2014)

Roƅ said:


> Jozu > Mihawk?



jozu stopped mihawks slash. a slash that he aimed against the wsm. mihawk wanted to test out his strength against wsm so he wud obviously send his strongest slash to which had no effect on jozu. also mihawk couldnt land a scratch on vista so i put them around the same.
so ya jozu>mihawk>=vista


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## Zeus. (Oct 20, 2014)

Oda had the general story of One Piece planned out with the main plot points and important characters already. It seems he just added more characters, arcs, etc.


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## GucciBandana (Oct 20, 2014)

savior2005 said:


> jozu stopped mihawks slash. a slash that he aimed against the wsm. mihawk wanted to test out his strength against wsm so he wud obviously send his strongest slash to which had no effect on jozu. also mihawk couldnt land a scratch on vista so i put them around the same.
> so ya jozu>mihawk>=vista



you forgot about Buggy, Mihawk couldn't put a scratch on him either, so Mihawk is about Buggy's level.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Oct 20, 2014)

savior2005 said:


> jozu>mihawk>=vista



Wall > Whitebeard


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 20, 2014)

Mihawk, in my opinion, can defeat any admiral or emperor that isn't named Shanks.
The difficulties range from moderate to very high.

Shanks > Mihawk > Akainu/Aokiji >/= Kaidou > Current Teach >/= Fujitora/Kizaru/Marco > Big Mom


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## Dunno (Oct 21, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Mihawk, in my opinion, can defeat any admiral or emperor that isn't named Shanks.
> The difficulties range from moderate to very high.
> 
> Shanks > Mihawk > Akainu/Aokiji >/= Kaidou > Current Teach >/= Fujitora/Kizaru/*Marco > Big Mom*



The rest of the list was quite decent, but this part?


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## The Bloody Nine (Oct 21, 2014)

That was an excellent post Convict even though i disagree with it. 



convict said:


> And I am aware many don?t believe Shanks to be a swordsman so I won?t dwell on why I disagree except to state that it really takes a piss on Mihawk and their rivalry if Shanks was actually holding back his true power and only limiting himself to swordsmanship so he wouldn?t own Mihawk in their duels; a notion that hasn?t remotely been implied and which completely goes against how they are depicted as rivals.



This in particular struck a cord with me. It would take a shit all over Mihawk if Shanks had been holding himself back, especially when Mihawk was so hyped in the first part of the manga. 

But at the end of the day i think you can also agree that Mihawk's feats/portrayal in the war were just not worthy of a top-tier and i'm a feats above all else type of person. One way or another Oda will have dropped the ball when it comes to Mihawk. 




convict said:


> Finally, let us just look at Rayleigh. Most of us agree that he is admiral level even now. Shanks is one thing but I really don?t know why people insist Rayleigh wasn?t a swordsman.  He is Zoro?s parallel, he talked about not using his sword in a while when suddenly thrust in a combat situation, and he fought exclusively with a sword against Kizaru ? a frikkin admiral.




I don't think this is a good example though; remember at that point we were less then half way through the manga, Oda had to show us these to-tier's clashing without actually revealing any end-game abilities. As an example the Admirals only overtly showed haki ONCE in the entire war when they did that barrier the rest of the time they relied entirely on their fruits like the vast majority of people in the war. Just like BB and Ace didn't show any signs of haki; despite their duel being at a higher level then Luffy vs Chinjao. And god knows Kizaru never again used a sword in the war.


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## convict (Oct 21, 2014)

> i think you can also agree that Mihawk's feats/portrayal in the war were just not worthy of a top-tier and i'm a feats above all else type of person.



Fair enough. In the next few days I'll probably share my thoughts on why I feel Oda handled Mihawk like that despite all his preceding hype.


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## Dunno (Oct 21, 2014)

The Bloody Nine said:


> That was an excellent post Convict even though i disagree with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There you go.


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## The Bloody Nine (Oct 21, 2014)

Dunno said:


> There you go.



No dude. WB/Garp/Marco/Admirals all managed to look extremely impressive while not revealing too much and Sengoku/Mihawk managed to look extremely disappointing. 


If you told people before the war that Mihawk would seriously try and then fail to kill Luffy with no outside intervention and then be stale-mated and ask for a draw from the WB's 4th seat people would tell you it wasn't even a half-way decent troll.


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## Dunno (Oct 21, 2014)

The Bloody Nine said:


> No dude. WB/Garp/Marco/Admirals all managed to look extremely impressive while not revealing too much and Sengoku/Mihawk managed to look extremely disappointing.
> 
> 
> If you told people before the war that Mihawk would seriously try and then fail to kill Luffy with no outside intervention and then be stale-mated and ask for a draw from the WB's 4th seat people would tell you it wasn't even a half-way decent troll.



Well, if you told people that a bloodlusted Akainu would try to kill Luffy only to be thwarted by Crocodile and Buggy, people would tell you it was an even worse troll.


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## trance (Oct 21, 2014)

But Sakazuki's portrayal was also significantly better than Mihawk's in the War. His positive showings outweighed his negative showings.


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## Magician (Oct 21, 2014)

convict said:


> I?ll start this off by saying that I completely understand why people don?t consider Mihawk to be on the level of Yonkou/Emperors.  I know where you guys are coming from seeing Mihawk?s portrayal during the war compared to them. However, I?ll try to explain why I think you are wrong. Currently, I will explain why Mihawk is hyped so much from most fans. I would also like like to address Mihawk?s seemingly underwhelming portrayal during the war so pretty soon I will write about that later in this thread.
> 
> On to arguments for his hype as Admiral/Yonkou level:
> 
> ...



This is beautiful. Had to step away from my Anti-Mihawk to praise this post.

Now I'm back. Mihawk sucks cock and would get fodderized by Buggy.


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## Imagine (Oct 21, 2014)

I can't even attempt to read that but I give Convict the nod.


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## Luke (Oct 21, 2014)

Imagine said:


> I can't even attempt to read that but I give Convict the nod.



The struggles of the illiterate


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## Rob (Oct 21, 2014)

Convict is one of those guys that has been around too long and is way too under-appreciated 

@Luke

 

Not wanting to read vs. Not being able to


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 21, 2014)

Dunno said:


> The rest of the list was quite decent, but this part?



Big Mom doesn't have any hype or feats that would suggest a higher placement on the list.
I don't recall out-of-the-ordinary statements from powerful characters or anything outside of her emperor rank; the latter can mean a plethora of things. 

And yes, I consider Marco on the level of admirals/emperors. He'd lose against many of the stronger ones, but Fujitora/Kizaru would suffer the same fate; however, they're still quite strong and have the power to be of that rank. There are just stronger people in every position.


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## Infinite Darkness (Oct 22, 2014)

Mihawk has a extreme difficulty fight with Kizaru, Aokoji and Big Mom, loses to Kaidou and Akainu.

As far as Shanks, i don't know.........i don't consider Shanks to be stronger than Kaidou or Akainu so i can't tell where he stands.


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## SsjAzn (Oct 23, 2014)

He's as strong as Akainu Imo.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 23, 2014)

Tea, was that you? 
Whoever it was... Based on what, exactly?

Marco has displayed some of the best feats in OP, fighting on par with admirals and getting a personal invitation from Shanks himself. The Gorosei even labeled him as one of the individuals that's able to take down Teach, alongside other emperors' names. His name was mentioned separately from the crew, so that's a testament to his strength.


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