# 7 Gate Might Guy vs Third Raikage



## Fluon (Mar 21, 2016)

Location : Plain

Distance : 100 meters

Knowledge : Chapter 700


Might Guy wins low difficulty 8/10 by kicking Raikage's arm into himself like Naruto or hirudora, though that would be too much.

Proof : 

Third Raikage vs SM Naruto 

[3]

7th Gate Might Guy vs Juudara 

[3]

_For reference Juudara vs SM Minato 

[3]_


Unless you're going to say that SM Naruto is faster than 7th Gate Guy


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## StarWanderer (Mar 21, 2016)

Well, with knowledge on how he got that scar, Gai easily beats him. But without knowledge, he probably wont be able to overcome his durability.


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## Fluon (Mar 21, 2016)

Hirudora is hugely powerful though, able to crush full Susanoo while gravity powered raikage barely cracked a few ribs of partial Susanoo.


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## Atlantic Storm (Mar 21, 2016)

From what I remember, Hirudora is a concentrated bullet of air that explodes on contact with the target. As long as Gai aims it at the Third Raikage's scar, he should be able to win.


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 21, 2016)

Guy wins with full knowledge, without it, he loses.


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## fyhb (Mar 21, 2016)

Granting such Knowledge to Gai is not fair for the Raikage nor makes the Battle  Balanced considering in fair and proper Battles opponents doesn't have such a detailed information on each other and especially in this case where no one except the Raikage knew.But this is just my opinion.

With this Knowledge Gai wins with Mid Difficulty,but without the Knowledge he gets beaten with Low Difficulty.


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## Fluon (Mar 21, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> Granting such Knowledge to Gai is not fair for the Raikage nor makes the Battle  Balanced considering in fair and proper Battles opponents doesn't have such a detailed information on each other and especially in this case where no one except the Raikage knew.But this is just my opinion.
> 
> With this Knowledge Gai wins with Mid Difficulty,but without the Knowledge he gets beaten with Low Difficulty.





No he doesn't, have you read this manga ? 


7th Gate Guy is basically on par on terms of reflex and speed with Juudara, who absolutely destroyed SM Minato (faster than TBM Naruto himself faster than A himself faster than at least SM Naruto: only with KCM did he beat A). I don't think you can challenge that.

So, Third Raikage would never land a hit, this is canon, but we don't how powerful is Hirudora (it did destroy Susanoo).


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## fyhb (Mar 21, 2016)

Unless you Think 7th Gate Gai can go toe to toe with Hachibi and beat it with Hirudora OK.

Even if he is faster than Raikage,he can't kill him without the Knowledge,considering Raikage Tank Hachibi TBB and eventually Raikage will outlast Gai.

Hmm am really sorry to see the Attitude of some people in this Community/Forum,going rude and offensive asking me if I had read the Manga just because I don't agree with you. Speechless.

Gai's only chance is the Knowledge.


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## Fluon (Mar 21, 2016)

He did better he went toe to toe with Juudara for 10s, that's better than the 9 bijuus, EMS Sasuke, Edo Tobi and Hashirama who were absolutely ravaged by revived Madara without eyes in less than 3s, he even manage to push him back

I mean you can you compare a Hachibi with an actual god ?


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## fyhb (Mar 21, 2016)

Making attacks against Madara Jin is fine and impressive I never I rejected it. But how does that help him beat Hachibi or Raikage!?

He is fast,no doubt there but he doesn't have the power to beat Raikage or Hachibi or outlast them,that is all I mean.

That's why I said that with Knowledge he wins,cuz he will use Raikage weakness thanks to his Speed.


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## Fluon (Mar 21, 2016)

I completely agree with Hachibi, but the Raikage was still wounded by Temari's futon [2]

And again, he was KOd for a few moments against the rasenshuriken : [2]

He's not as tough as people make him to be


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## fyhb (Mar 21, 2016)

Fuuton is his Main Elemental Weakness,and few bruises from Temari are nothing to beat him.

I think Tanking Hachibi proves he can Tank Hirudora too.

But I see no point in continuing this discussion mate,since here Gai have Full Knowledge and thanks to that he wins.


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## Fluon (Mar 21, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> Fuuton is his Main Elemental Weakness,and few bruises from Temari are nothing to beat him.
> 
> I think Tanking Hachibi proves he can Tank Hirudora too.
> 
> But I see no point in continuing this discussion mate,since here Gai have Full Knowledge and thanks to that he wins.



Agreed, but wait wait, you can't  say those [2] are bruises, those are at least flesh wounds, you can't say that in good faith


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## fyhb (Mar 21, 2016)

As I said this is his Main Weakness and it was made by Several Fuuton Users ,normally it wounded him slightly,but Gai Techs are not Fuuton,it is Super Fast Punch which can't compare with TBB.


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## Fluon (Mar 21, 2016)

Think what you want, but comparing Hirodura to a fodder wind technique is madness, it's like comparing the great fireball against a rasengan. Hirudora destroyed a Susanoo, I don't think it was weaker than the Raikage.


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## fyhb (Mar 21, 2016)

Do you think Hirudora beats TBB!?

The type of Attacks are different,the Fuuton Net and Hirudora,one is the weakness of the Raiton Element the other is incredibly strong Taijutsu Attacks,similar to TBB but much faster but with less Destructive Power,so I am betting my money on Raikage Tanking it.


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## Fluon (Mar 21, 2016)

TBB ? Do you mean the bijuu ball ? Do we have proof that he actually tanked one of those ? block

The only time where the bijuudama was mentionned was when Hachibi fell on it.

Yes I know that each elements have their weakness but that only applies to techiques of the same level, like Gokakyu and water wall, not god tier level to fodder level. 

Plus we have to remember than Hachibi's bijuudama was actually tanked by Suigetsu, and that all other bijuu's bijuudama are far weaker than Kurama's.


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## Saru (Mar 21, 2016)

Fluon said:


> TBB ? Do you mean the bijuu ball ? Do we have proof that he actually tanked one of those ? block




How else would they both get knocked out from that exchange? Sandaime Raikage probably used Nukite againt Gyuuki's Bijuudama (perhaps in the process of it being charged) and the resulting explosion made them both drop to the ground.

I'm not saying there's proof, but I think it's suggested by the exchange.



> Plus we have to remember than Hachibi's bijuudama was actually tanked by Suigetsu, and that all other bijuu's bijuudama are far weaker than Kurama's.




Suigetsu didn't actually tank a Bijuudama. Gyuuki's Bijuudama passed through Suigetsu's body and turned him into jelly before exploding far away in the distance.​


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 21, 2016)

Temari has the best Futon in the whole Alliance excluding Naruto himself, and A's RCM wasn't even active when she and several other Futon users hit him with it. Even with his RCM neutralized by NTCM Naruto's FRS he was only put down for a brief second and he had minor injuries. NTCM Naruto's FRS > Hirudora. Not to mention the type of damage is different, Temari and Naruto's attacks aren't just raw damage they slice up the enemy with the latter shredding them completely apart on a microscopic level. Guy's Hirudora is only raw blunt damage, it has no slashing or piercing damage at all. A battled Gyuki in a fight to the death to a stalemate in which his greatest injury from that fight came from himself and Gyuki stated that he was a strong and resilient man that he had trouble damaging. Gyuki's TBB >>>> Hirudora. Unless Guy is aware of A's weakness he will be left unable to harm this inhuman monster.


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## fyhb (Mar 21, 2016)

Suigetsu Tanked the TBB thanks ot his Water Body. We saw the destructive power of Hachibi TBB it may be bellow Kuramas but is still stronger in AoE and Destructive Power than Hirudora.

We have proof he Tanked it because Hachibi initially thought that it was his TBB that left the Scar on Raikage while they were Fighting,and after they continued they both fell from exhaustion on the ground.

I am on same opinion as Saru and Isaiah, exactly what I was trying to explain.


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## Bonly (Mar 21, 2016)

I'd go with the Sandaime more times then not. Gai can't really hurt the Sandaime once he puts up his Raiton armor unless he starts using MP and AT though with his own durability and the armor he may be able to take those without to much damage and keep fighting so chances are Gai is gonna start to feel the effects of the gates before he puts down the Sandaime and when he does he'll get overwhelmed eventually.


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## Saru (Mar 21, 2016)

Gai has full knowledge here, and he also has the speed and reflexes to replicate Naruto's feat if the Seventh Gate is opened. There's not a lot in the way of battle contingencies since Sandaime Raikage's arsenal is rather limited. His _Kuroi Kaminari_ might be able to pressure Gai in combination with his speed, but the starting distance makes that unlikely. Once Gai opens the Seventh Gate, he should be able to respond to Sandaime's attacks and force Nukite through his chest.​


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## fyhb (Mar 21, 2016)

Absolutely. Gai wins in this scenario thanks to the Full Knowledge he is granted.


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## Bonly (Mar 21, 2016)

Is the Sandaime forced to use his one finger Nukite here? If not then I don't see how Gai can do what Naruto did since the Sandaime can, you know, not use his strongest spear especially when it's not needed to take out Gai.


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## fyhb (Mar 21, 2016)

You do have a point though. Another thing is if Gai will come up with the Idea and Tactic to make the Raikage hit himself.


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## Bonly (Mar 21, 2016)

Gai can try to make the Sandaime hit himself but I don't think it's gonna do much unless he uses his one finger Nukite which again he doesn't need sooooooo yeah


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## Fluon (Mar 21, 2016)

Saru said:


> How else would they both get knocked out from that exchange? Sandaime Raikage probably used Nukite againt Gyuuki's Bijuudama (perhaps in the process of it being charged) and the resulting explosion made them both drop to the ground.
> 
> I'm not saying there's proof, but I think it's suggested by the exchange.
> 
> ...




 I think the reason why they were exhausted is that they that both fought a very long time, Hachibi says "we were both exhausted", not too wounded.

The only mention of his nukite is the raikage cutting his tails, so I don't think he landed a nukite on his main body, or else he would mention it 




Isaiah13000 said:


> Temari has the best Futon in the whole Alliance excluding Naruto himself, and A's RCM wasn't even active when she and several other Futon users hit him with it. Even with his RCM neutralized by NTCM Naruto's FRS he was only put down for a brief second and he had minor injuries. NTCM Naruto's FRS > Hirudora. Not to mention the type of damage is different, Temari and Naruto's attacks aren't just raw damage they slice up the enemy with the latter shredding them completely apart on a microscopic level. Guy's Hirudora is only raw blunt damage, it has no slashing or piercing damage at all. A battled Gyuki in a fight to the death to a stalemate in which his greatest injury from that fight came from himself and Gyuki stated that he was a strong and resilient man that he had trouble damaging. Gyuki's TBB >>>> Hirudora. Unless Guy is aware of A's weakness he will be left unable to harm this inhuman monster.




I agree that the type of damage is different, but unless you're speaking of Rikudou Naruto's RS, I don't see how it is stronger, just by feat alone, the Hirudora is far superior : 

RS : edit : destroyed two hearts of Kakuzu and incapacited him

Hirudora : Incapacitated Kisame
Destroyed Madara's Susanoo
Pushed back Juudara

I don't think that Kishi is saying that RS > Hirudora

He said he was strong and resilient, not that he tanked his Bijuudama, he even thought his BD wounded the Raikage, if it wasn't effective in the first place, why would he think that ?





Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> Suigetsu Tanked the TBB thanks ot his Water Body. We saw the destructive power of Hachibi TBB it may be bellow Kuramas but is still stronger in AoE and Destructive Power than Hirudora.
> 
> We have proof he Tanked it because Hachibi initially thought that it was his TBB that left the Scar on Raikage while they were Fighting,and after they continued they both fell from exhaustion on the ground.
> 
> I am on same opinion as Saru and Isaiah, exactly what I was trying to explain.




No that is no proof ! If he thought first that his BD could wound him, it means that he was confident t it was effective to wound him to that extent, the only reason why he doubted it is because he didn't remember shooting his BD.  "wasn't it my bijuudama or what was it ?" "we fell both with our jutsu in hand"
block

If he really tanked the BD without a scar, then Hachibi would obviously know that his BD are ineffective against him and would not think that his attack wounded

Please prove me what is exactly wrong in my reasoning if you think it is  

I mean it's curious that the Raikage tanks BDs right and left but the Hachibi still thinks that it would be effective on him


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## fyhb (Mar 21, 2016)

Hachibi thought so because that is his Strongest Attack and he has nothing else that could have DMG-ed the Raikage,so Gyuki was thinking it might have been his TBB.

No one said Raikage Tanked it like walk in the park without some Flesh Wound or Bruises,but it definitely wasn't enough to kill him or Take him out of the fight. And Hirudora is weaker than Hachibi TBB so,it won't be more effective in taking Raikage down.


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## Saru (Mar 21, 2016)

Fluon said:


> I think the reason why they were exhausted is that they that both fought a very long time, Hachibi says "we were both exhausted", not too wounded.
> 
> The only mention of his nukite is the raikage cutting his tails, so I don't think he landed a nukite on his main body, or else he would mention it




Fair enough. Sandaime Raikage tanking Gyuuki's Bijuudama sounds less plausible the more that I think about it, although I was always under the impression that he had Nukite'd Gyuuk's Bijuudama prematurely.

Yeah, I got Sandaime's feat against Gyuuki mixed up with Yondaime's. ​


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## Fluon (Mar 21, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> Hachibi thought so because that is his Strongest Attack and he has nothing else that could have DMG-ed the Raikage,so Gyuki was thinking it might have been his TBB.
> 
> No one said Raikage Tanked it like walk in the park without some Flesh Wound or Bruises,but it definitely wasn't enough to kill him or Take him out of the fight. And Hirudora is weaker than Hachibi TBB so,it won't be more effective in taking Raikage down.





Well he didn't have any other scar of these tanked BD, and if it only bruised the Raikage, then he would never think that it would be that effective. Occam's razzor man : take the option with the least assumption. In the situation you describe, either there are several other scars we don't know of, or the BD only bruised him and Hachibi still thought to be strong enough to do that . 2 Assumption. 

My situation : He dodged them because he's fast : 1 assumption.

You didn't disprove me, you just repeated the same facts, I thought you were a reasonable  dude ... 

Edit : 


Saru said:


> Fair enough. Sandaime Raikage tanking Gyuuki's Bijuudama sounds less plausible the more that I think about it, although I was always under the impression that he had Nukite'd Gyuuk's Bijuudama prematurely.
> 
> Yeah, I got Sandaime's feat against Gyuuki mixed up with Yondaime's. ​



Ha !  Someone who listen to reason ! He did nukited Gyuuki, but it's difficult to know if he also nukited his chest or head as he didn't leave any scar (as it would because his horn was cut by A and is stiil missing), or it would mean that his nukited isn't strong enough to wound this parts (which I find implausible or weird)

Repped !


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## Clowe (Mar 21, 2016)

Bonly said:


> Gai can try to make the Sandaime hit himself but I don't think it's gonna do much unless he uses his one finger Nukite which again he doesn't need sooooooo yeah



This.

Unless A3 is forced to use one finger nukite in this particular match up, Guy has no way to actually bypass his armor. And A3 doesn't need to use one finger to win, he can just tank everything, wait for the effects of the gates to kick in and proceed to destroy the ever living shit out of Guy.


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## fyhb (Mar 21, 2016)

You think Raikage escaped the Mountain Range Area Effect of TBB,despite his Speed he can't outrun that,considering how he complimented Temari and Co. on using Wide Range Fuuton to overtake his Speed.

TBB could have bruised the Raikage and Hachibi could have thought it made some more serious DMG. That is a fact. Bruises don't leave Deep Wound Scars especially on someone with the Body of Raikage.

As you see no one else here things Hirudora is Stronger than TBB and can accomplish what TBB couldn't. Yet you try to say Hirudora can do what TBB couldn't do to the Raikage.


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## Fluon (Mar 21, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> You think Raikage escaped the Mountain Range Area Effect of TBB,despite his Speed he can't outrun that,considering how he complimented Temari and Co. on using Wide Range Fuuton to overtake his Speed.
> 
> TBB could have bruised the Raikage and Hachibi could have thought it made some more serious DMG. That is a fact. Bruises don't leave Deep Wound Scars especially on someone with the Body of Raikage.
> 
> As you see no one else here things Hirudora is Stronger than TBB and can accomplish what TBB couldn't. Yet you try to say Hirudora can do what TBB couldn't do to the Raikage.



I give up, if you're making assumptions upon assumptions, Konohamaru could defeat Pain.


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## fyhb (Mar 21, 2016)

What assumption is that FACT that Raikage can't escape such a Wide Range Attack as he couldn't do it with Fuuton Net too.

And what Assumption is that he survived TBB without a Scratch. But OK.

Konohamaru has nothing with this,taking by surprise a weak Body of Pain which was alone,really don't have any place in this discussion, especially since I am not the only one who thinks like that about Raikage.

You give up because in the End you can't prove that Hirudora can accomplish that which Hachibi TBB couldn't.


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 21, 2016)

Fluon said:


> I think the reason why they were exhausted is that they that both fought a very long time, Hachibi says "we were both exhausted", not too wounded.
> 
> The only mention of his nukite is the raikage cutting his tails, so I don't think he landed a nukite on his main body, or else he would mention it
> 
> ...



Gyuki also said that he couldn't remember exactly what happened very well. But in order for Gyuki himself to be driven to exhaustion so much that he would collapse means that A must have been incredibly tough. The main go-to move for all Tailed Beasts is their TBB, it is literally their signature move that they have no problem spamming. For Gyuki to have not used it at some point during his death match against A when he was at risk of being sealed away again makes no sense imo. 

Futon: Rasenshuriken Feats: 
- Whilst incomplete, it destroyed Kakuzu's two remaining hearts and killed him instantly when used by base Naruto.
- After being completed, it vaporized half of the body of one of Nagato's Pains when used by SM Naruto.
- Immobilizes Edo Madara and destroys Hashirama's Wood Dragons when used by SM Naruto in the war. 

NTCM Naruto >> SM Naruto. Not to mention Hirodura never pushed back Juudara, though I will admit that Hirodura is very powerful. But my main point is, is that Rasenshuriken is so powerful that it attacks the opponent on a cellular level with an explosion of countless microscopic wind-blades and that was it's weakest version used by base Naruto, so anything beyond that should be far far stronger as seen. Strong enough to at least be beyond Hirodura. 

Not to mention Hirodura never pushed back Juudara, he came out completely unharmed by it


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## Fluon (Mar 21, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> What assumption is that FACT that Raikage can't escape such a Wide Range Attack as he couldn't do it with Fuuton Net too.
> 
> And what Assumption is that he survived TBB without a Scratch. But OK.
> 
> ...




I give up because you're biased, you will never accept my argument, you're like the stubborn fandom of Itachi saying his shield can tank Bijuudama, I thought you were someone reasonable able to understand clear argument, but you're clearly not :

He was hit by the RS at point blank range, he couldn't have gotten out of its radius.

In the flash back he's clearly very far from Gyuuki, Bijuudamas aren't crazy fast, he dodges them and goes far past him, no problem of AOE damage.

I never said that the Hirudora was more powerful than BD, my whole argument is based around the Raikage dodging them.

The fact that the Raikage dodged all of them is very likely, more likely than tanking BDs which only Bijuus have shown to do.


Bijuudama are relatively slow and long range attacks, the Raikage has shown immense speed and reflex, it's very likely, only KCM Naruto with his superior reflex and speed could he land the rasenshuriken, that's the truth. Temari was only 10m at most when she launched her wind.

You're just biased, I exposed my arguments clearly, you failed to answer them, yes if you continue with your assumption, Konohamaru could have tanked all attacks, we haven't seen him not tanking the attacks, he also was fast enough to take one of Pain by surprise.



But you're not addressing my points, this is why it's useless to continue talking with you. 





Isaiah13000 said:


> In order for Gyuki himself to be driven to exhaustion so much that he would collapse means that A must have been incredibly tough. The main go-to move for all Tailed Beasts is their TBB, it is literally their signature move that they have no problem spamming.




No they do have problems, Hachibi was shown to be exhausted from 3-4 exchange with Kisame.




Isaiah13000 said:


> Futon: Rasenshuriken Feats:
> - Whilst incomplete, it destroyed Kakuzu's two remaining hearts and killed him instantly when used by base Naruto.
> - After being completed, it vaporized half of the body of one of Nagato's Pains when used by SM Naruto.
> - Immobilizes Edo Madara and destroys Hashirama's Wood Dragons when used by SM Naruto in the war.




Stop making things up : 

1. Incomplete in its execution not in its destructive power, prove me how it got more powerful between Kakuzu and Pain.

2. The pain bodies weren't tough to begin with, one was destroyed by an incomplete rasengan of Konohamari

3. Bullcrap, show me where Madara was immobilized by RS, you're making shit up.  
Edit : Immobilized here ? Dodging Version 1 B's Lariat 




Isaiah13000 said:


> Not to mention Hirodura never pushed back Juudara,




He isn't pushing back Juudara ? Dodging Version 1 B's Lariat 

I destroyed you, admit it


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## fyhb (Mar 21, 2016)

Raikage couldn't dodge Fuuton Net and complimented Temari for using a Fuuton Jutsu that overtake his Speed because it has really Wide Range but you suggest he escaped with Speed a Bijuu Dama with much much greater Area Effect and Explosion with enough force to Level a Mountain!? 

No he can't outrun TBB amd escape from it Radius of Explosion,considering he couldn't evade much Weaker and with much less Range Fuuton Jutsu.


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## Skaddix (Mar 21, 2016)

Please it counldnt even oneshot Kisame in water and shockwaves move faster in water then an air ie more damage from the Shockwave. Replicating Naruto's feat BS, Gai has no sensing skills or rasengan which were essential parts of Naruto pulling off that trick. Sure Gai is probably faster but he aint doing enough damage before his Gate times out and he loses. He also doesn't have any Futon so no help there sense his abilities don't count as Chakra Nature Manipulation.


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## fyhb (Mar 21, 2016)

Exactly my point. Hirudora can't hurt Raikage enough since TBB with all if their Mountain Destructive Power and Wide Area Effect couldn't take out Raikage. 

Gai only hope is pulling the same Trick as Naruto.


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## Skaddix (Mar 21, 2016)

Plus u know its not a reliable tactic sense it requires Raikage to use One Figure Nukite first not exactly what I call a reliable tactic.


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 22, 2016)

Fluon said:


> I give up because you're biased, you will never accept my argument, you're like the stubborn fandom of Itachi saying his shield can tank Bijuudama, I thought you were someone reasonable able to understand clear argument, but you're clearly not :
> 
> He was hit by the RS at point blank range, he couldn't have gotten out of its radius.
> 
> ...



1. (2) He doesn't have any problems spamming it at all. Kisame had devoured a shitton of his chakra so that point is moot and irrelevant. 

2. The durability of the Pain bodies' varies from body to body, and your point is still moot. It vaporized half of it's body, the other Pain was still left intact by Konohamaru's Rasengan.  

3. (2) and (2) suggest that Madara was immobilized after being hit once Hashirama restrained him. 

4. Juudara underestimated him and he proved to be stronger than he thought. But his attacks failed to do anything at all to Juudara and he was left unimpressed. Only 8th Gate Guy pressured Juudara and earned his praise.


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## Jad (Mar 22, 2016)

Skaddix said:


> Please it counldnt even oneshot Kisame in water and shockwaves move faster in water then an air ie more damage from the Shockwave. Replicating Naruto's feat BS, Gai has no sensing skills or rasengan which were essential parts of Naruto pulling off that trick. Sure Gai is probably faster but he aint doing enough damage before his Gate times out and he loses. He also doesn't have any Futon so no help there sense his abilities don't count as Chakra Nature Manipulation.


Just like Gai and Kisame could hear eachother with massive gallons of water separating them. Just like Gai could only generate a lesser version of Hirudora underwater with barely any air.


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## Skaddix (Mar 22, 2016)

Eh Kisame hearing Gai is easy enough to explain. I am not sure what your broader point is, its harder to compress air underwater?


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## Jad (Mar 22, 2016)

Skaddix said:


> Eh Kisame hearing Gai is easy enough to explain. I am not sure what your broader point is, its harder to compress air underwater?



Gai was hearing Kisame as well, even answered him. Gai could have swam back ontop and blasted Kisame, but using Hirudora underwater would have reduced the amount of air around him to compress, thus a weaker jutsu, thus Kisame's survivability and Gai's nonshock.


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## Skaddix (Mar 22, 2016)

Yes except as I have said repeatedly sound waves and shockwaves or more powerful and damaging underwater then in air and I think that more then makes up for any difficultly in compression. Gai trying to swim out would be dumb, he aint outswimming Kisame underwater. Also the attack itself has a pretty obvious windup, you want a blitz move go Morning Peacock.


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## Veracity (Mar 22, 2016)

"In principle, these shock waves are the same as blast, but there are two big differences in scale. The shock wave from an underwater explosion travels faster and farther--about 6,000 feet per second instead of 1,000--and it has a much higher pressure, measured in tons per square inch instead of pounds. But it is, accordingly, of much shorter duration."


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## Fluon (Mar 22, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> 1. standard gust He doesn't have any problems spamming it at all. Kisame had devoured a shitton of his chakra so that point is moot and irrelevant.
> 
> 2. The durability of the Pain bodies' varies from body to body, and your point is still moot. It vaporized half of it's body, the other Pain was still left intact by Konohamaru's Rasengan.
> 
> ...




1. Those are smaller BD, they need time to prepare for the real ones. 

2. Lol, he wasn't vaporised by a small rasengan, that's normal, even the main body was not vaporised even though he was hit by a real rasengan of Naruto.

3. You're twisting everything and anything to make your point, he was immobilized by Hashi, without his susanoo, it doesn't mean anything you know it. 

4. Does that mean anything, he was suprised by his speed, and he was pushed back, more than every other character did, except for Rikudou Naruto and Sasuke. It's normal that Juudara wasn't wounded, he's a GOD, a literal GOD.

I destroyed you and you won't admit it. 




Skaddix said:


> Yes except as I have said repeatedly sound waves and shockwaves or more powerful and damaging underwater then in air and I think that more then makes up for any difficultly in compression. Gai trying to swim out would be dumb, he aint outswimming Kisame underwater. Also the attack itself has a pretty obvious windup, you want a blitz move go Morning Peacock.





Likes boss said:


> "In principle, these shock waves are the same as blast, but there are two big differences in scale. The shock wave from an underwater explosion travels faster and farther--about 6,000 feet per second instead of 1,000--and it has a much higher pressure, measured in tons per square inch instead of pounds. But it is, accordingly, of much shorter duration."




Yeah because Kishi clearly gives a damn about physics, you're just fighting about details.


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## Jad (Mar 22, 2016)

Skaddix said:


> Yes except as I have said repeatedly sound waves and shockwaves or more powerful and damaging underwater then in air and I think that more then makes up for any difficultly in compression. Gai trying to swim out would be dumb, he aint outswimming Kisame underwater. Also the attack itself has a pretty obvious windup, you want a blitz move go Morning Peacock.



Have you ever heard anyone having a convo underwater 100 meters apart in the ocean? It's not possible unless the sound only travels in one direction pinpointing one target, not spreading out. That, and compressing air when there is barely any,  having that air collide with a massive chakra construct whilst shrinking, and creating such a massive explosion from such disadvantages,  verses compressing air whilst outside with no disadvantages is a massive difference.


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## fyhb (Mar 22, 2016)

He is not fighting over details,if anything his point proves that Hirudora should be actually stronger and faster underwater,rather than being weaker as many people claim. 

Kishi may not care for physics but he never also said ""Disregard any physics in my Manga,it doesnt have influance!" 

The guys is just using solid facts to back his statement!


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## Fluon (Mar 22, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> Raikage couldn't dodge Fuuton Net and complimented Temari for using a Fuuton Jutsu that overtake his Speed because it has really Wide Range but you suggest he escaped with Speed a Bijuu Dama with much much greater Area Effect and Explosion with enough force to Level a Mountain!?
> 
> No he can't outrun TBB amd escape from it Radius of Explosion,considering he couldn't evade much Weaker and with much less Range Fuuton Jutsu.




Are you reading my post, let me dumb down if you want : 

-Raikage and Hachibi : FAR (at least 1km)

-Raikage and Naruto/Temari : Very CLOSE (10m to 30cm)

What's so difficult about this.




Skaddix said:


> Please it counldnt even oneshot Kisame in water and shockwaves move faster in water then an air ie more damage from the Shockwave. Replicating Naruto's feat BS, Gai has no sensing skills or rasengan which were essential parts of Naruto pulling off that trick. Sure Gai is probably faster but he aint doing enough damage before his Gate times out and he loses. He also doesn't have any Futon so no help there sense his abilities don't count as Chakra Nature Manipulation.




He one shoted him, there's no discussion and no debate, you're delusional if you contradict this. It can't be clearer.




Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> Exactly my point. Hirudora can't hurt Raikage enough since TBB with all if their Mountain Destructive Power and Wide Area Effect couldn't take out Raikage.
> 
> Gai only hope is pulling the same Trick as Naruto.




I will repeat again if you want :

Raikage and Hachibi : FAR > easy to dodge  

Raikage and Naruto : 30 cm >  difficult to dodge  :amazed




Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> He is not fighting over details,if anything his point proves that Hirudora should be actually stronger and faster underwater,rather than being weaker as many people claim.
> 
> Kishi may not care for physics but he never also said ""Disregard any physics in my Manga,it doesnt have influance!"
> 
> The guys is just using solid facts to back his statement!




Yes he probably tries to follow physics, but he isn't a scientist, he doesn't know everything about underwater mechanics, you can't bend space either just with superspeed but Guy did, this isn't a scientific documentary.

The only thing we can be sure is that he wanted to show that Guy was at disadvantage, but that he was still strong enough to demolish Kisame nevertheless.


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## Jad (Mar 22, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> He is not fighting over details,if anything his point proves that Hirudora should be actually stronger and faster underwater,rather than being weaker as many people claim.
> 
> Kishi may not care for physics but he never also said ""Disregard any physics in my Manga,it doesnt have influance!"
> 
> The guys is just using solid facts to back his statement!



No he did not, you are right. But in that very same scene, where Kisame and Gai talked to eachother when they shouldn't have been able to, it didn't seem much physics was involved.

Unless you want to play favorites in picking and choosing when physics and biology get used when it's felt like. Because Dosu says the human body is made up of 70% water, yet none believe Gai's Morning Peacock that reduced a gigantic tidal wave of water into mist in a blink of an eye,  would do the same to a person....


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## Fluon (Mar 22, 2016)

What happens when Hachibi Itself is hit by his own Bijuudama Link removed

Are you going to argue that the Raikage can tank a bunch of them without a wound, while the second strongest Bijuu barely can't.


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## fyhb (Mar 22, 2016)

You do have a point there. I am not one to go on favoritism.

If Kisame and Gai talked and heard each other then we can kinda neglect any physics to be applied for that moment,which essentially mean we shouldn't use the Water as an excuse for Hirudora being weaker or that it couldn't finish off Kisame. Am I right!? 

And now Fluon what I essentially mean is that TBB>Hirudora and Raikage Tanked TBB so Hirudora won't be able to put Raikage out of commission. Oh so you somehow know bu how many TBB Raikage was hit or Hachibi used and even at what distance they were from each other!? Oh you must have sone inside knowledge,cuz only you know those details.


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## Fluon (Mar 22, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> You do have a point there. I am not one to go on favoritism.
> 
> If Kisame and Gai talked and heard each other then we can kinda neglect any physics to be applied for that moment,which essentially mean we shouldn't use the Water as an excuse for Hirudora being weaker or that it couldn't finish off Kisame. Am I right!?
> 
> And now Fluon what I essentially mean is that TBB>Hirudora and Raikage Tanked TBB so Hirudora won't be able to put Raikage out of commission. Oh so you somehow know bu how many TBB Raikage was hit or Hachibi used!? Now this is my last reply to you.





I said that I completely agree 100% even 1000% that TBB is far above and beyond Hirudora, it's not even a match in terms of raw power. This is not what I'm arguing with.


My point is : Hachibi itself can't tank his own TBB well, the Raikage has impressive speed and reflex, he was far from Hachibi in the flash back (at least a few hundred of meters) : Thus he most likely dodged them, unless people think he tanked 10+ TBB, what's the most likely scenario ?


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## Jad (Mar 22, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> You do have a point there. I am not one to go on favoritism.
> 
> If Kisame and Gai talked and heard each other then we can kinda neglect any physics to be applied for that moment,which essentially mean we shouldn't use the Water as an excuse for Hirudora being weaker or that it couldn't finish off Kisame. Am I right!?
> 
> And now Fluon what I essentially mean is that TBB>Hirudora and Raikage Tanked TBB so Hirudora won't be able to put Raikage out of commission. Oh so you somehow know bu how many TBB Raikage was hit or Hachibi used and even at what distance they were from each other!? Oh you must have sone inside knowledge,cuz only you know those details.



The thing is, we know how Hirudora works, Kishimoto explains that air is compressed and explodes in an instant. If there is barely any air underwater, that means using Kishimoto's DESCRIPTION of the move, logically would be weaker then using it on land. On top of this we have a clear illustration of Hirudora colliding with Daikodan, which would have made Hiurdora lose some of that compressed air. You see I'm using the inverse Naruto logic to back up my claims,  rather going on a tanget of real life logic. This is further emphasized that Gai wasn't aiming to kill Kisame because its stated several times by Kishi both in manga and databook Hirudora and Morning Peacock kill. Several, not just a one off statement. Hell, Kisame even says Mornibg Peacock DESTROYS the target.


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## ARGUS (Mar 22, 2016)

Guy cannot hurt third Raikage 
Hirudora is tanked and once he's out of gates, then Raikage one shots 

Raikage mid diff


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## Mercurial (Mar 22, 2016)

With full knowledge, Gai wins easily. He is much faster and swifter, he just kicks the Raikage's powered arm through his chest.

Without full knowledge, it's really hard to say. Sure, worst comes the worst, Gai would open the 8th Gate and neg the 3rd Raikage, but at the cost of his own life later.


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## ARGUS (Mar 22, 2016)

^With full knowledge, Raikage knows that guy is faster than him and that he doesn't need Nukite to kill him 
So he just waits it out and then shits


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 22, 2016)

Fluon said:


> What happens when Hachibi Itself is hit by his own Bijuudama If you notice Hiashi in the panels, the Hyuga in front of Naruto he, still spends a page to crouch down into a horse stance and wind that up first before firing the Vaccum Palm Wall.
> 
> Are you going to argue that the Raikage can tank a bunch of them without a wound, while the second strongest Bijuu barely can't.



If you notice Hiashi in the panels, the Hyuga in front of Naruto he, still spends a page to crouch down into a horse stance and wind that up first before firing the Vaccum Palm Wall. and If you notice Hiashi in the panels, the Hyuga in front of Naruto he, still spends a page to crouch down into a horse stance and wind that up first before firing the Vaccum Palm Wall. Argument destroyed. Gyuki was exhausted when he got hit by his own TBB. He had been fighting for nearly a full day at that point and had already used several TBBs. Later, he withstands getting hit by the backlash of his own TBB *and the Ten-Tails' Second Form's at point-blank range contained inside of it's mouth.* That was strong enough to do If you notice Hiashi in the panels, the Hyuga in front of Naruto he, still spends a page to crouch down into a horse stance and wind that up first before firing the Vaccum Palm Wall. . Shortly afterwards, B does If you notice Hiashi in the panels, the Hyuga in front of Naruto he, still spends a page to crouch down into a horse stance and wind that up first before firing the Vaccum Palm Wall. even after being hit by that attack only moments prior. B even says "I'm charged enough" If you notice Hiashi in the panels, the Hyuga in front of Naruto he, still spends a page to crouch down into a horse stance and wind that up first before firing the Vaccum Palm Wall. before doing it, implying he wasn't fully charged but had recovered enough chakra to at least use a TBB against the Juubi. 

The tailed beasts are exceptionally durable creatures that can withstand attacks significantly stronger than themselves as seen here as well If you notice Hiashi in the panels, the Hyuga in front of Naruto he, still spends a page to crouch down into a horse stance and wind that up first before firing the Vaccum Palm Wall. that was strong enough to later do If you notice Hiashi in the panels, the Hyuga in front of Naruto he, still spends a page to crouch down into a horse stance and wind that up first before firing the Vaccum Palm Wall. . That was done by an even weaker form of the Juubi that B attacked as well. They also both ran out of chakra after those events happened when they had already been fighting intensely prior. If you notice Hiashi in the panels, the Hyuga in front of Naruto he, still spends a page to crouch down into a horse stance and wind that up first before firing the Vaccum Palm Wall. . So in conclusion, I see no reason for the Third Raikage to be unable to survive getting hit by a few TBBs if he fought Gyuki to complete exhaustion and stalemated him. Especially since Gyuki has shown that he can spam them If you notice Hiashi in the panels, the Hyuga in front of Naruto he, still spends a page to crouch down into a horse stance and wind that up first before firing the Vaccum Palm Wall. shortly before running out of chakra. So if the Third can fight against that kind of monster and force it to drop due to exhaustion, then I doubt Guy can do anything to him whatsoever. Especially if full knowledge is involved here then that means that A knows that he cannot be harmed by Guy and Guy will eventually tire. So I concede what I said earlier, I believe A can definitely win now.


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## Fluon (Mar 23, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> explosions and explosions Argument destroyed. Gyuki was exhausted when he got hit by his own TBB. He had been fighting for nearly a full day at that point and had already used several TBBs. Later, he withstands getting hit by the backlash of his own TBB *and the Ten-Tails' Second Form's at point-blank range contained inside of it's mouth.* That was strong enough to do explosions . Shortly afterwards, B does explosions even after being hit by that attack only moments prior. B even says "I'm charged enough" explosions before doing it, implying he wasn't fully charged but had recovered enough chakra to at least use a TBB against the Juubi.




Was he wounded before being hit by his own Bijuudama ? Exhausted maybe but not wounded like with his Bijuudama. 

explosions
explosions

So no.

The panel you linked proves that Hachibi was perfectly fine before being hit by his BD, your linked them, not me.

He didn't tank the backlash, the Juubi's stomach did : explosions

End of argument, you're pushing lower and lower to find things to contradit me but you end contradicting yourself : Hachibi can't tank well his own Bijuudama  so either you think that the Raikage is more durable than the second strongest Bijuu  or he dodged them.




Isaiah13000 said:


> The tailed beasts are exceptionally durable creatures that can withstand attacks significantly stronger than themselves as seen here as well explosions that was strong enough to later do explosions . That was done by an even weaker form of the Juubi that B attacked as well. They also both ran out of chakra after those events happened when they had already been fighting intensely prior. explosions . So in conclusion, I see no reason for the Third Raikage to be unable to survive getting hit by a few TBBs if he fought Gyuki to complete exhaustion and stalemated him. Especially since Gyuki has shown that he can spam them explosions shortly before running out of chakra. So if the Third can fight against that kind of monster and force it to drop due to exhaustion, then I doubt Guy can do anything to him whatsoever. Especially if full knowledge is involved here then that means that A knows that he cannot be harmed by Guy and Guy will eventually tire. So I concede what I said earlier, I believe A can definitely win now.



explosions : Hachibi was Kamui'd before he could be damaged more (than a few tails at least, he's fine : explosions), Kyuubi is the Strongest Bijuu so he tanked the attack.

Kyuubi can literally take on all of the other Bijuus alone, just a swing of his tails could deflect 6 fully sized Bijuudamas.

explosions : What's that supposed to prove, no Bijuus here and Juubi missed because of Ino.

explosions : Again contradicting your argument, being hit by his own BD = Super wounded.

So no he most likely didn't tank a few BDs, you just linked me a bunch of panels that don't prove even remotely any of your claims. So still destroyed


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 23, 2016)

Well if my post from before didn't prove anything then I don't have much to say. Gyuki was clearly hit by the backlash of his own and the Juubi's TBB inside of it's mouth, as seen as when he was blown out of it right after they detonated inside of it. All of the Bijuu can tank attacks much stronger than themselves is the point I'm trying to make. Gyuki isn't that much stronger than the rest, only Kurama is a lot stronger, and Gyuki tanked a stronger attack from a stronger form of the Juubi than Kurama did is the point I'm trying to make.


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## Fluon (Mar 23, 2016)

1. He was hit, that is a fact, but he was hit with less than 1% of its power. The Juubi swallowed the TBB, it went down to his stomach and exploded :  this
Edit : Juubi's stomach is expanding if you want proof that it went down, how is Hachibi affected by the explosion then ?

2. You can't argue against that Hachibi was thrown back due to the ripple effect of the explosion through the Juubi : this

3. You're twisting the manga and you keep arguing that Hachibi tanked Juubi's and his Bijuudama. This is clearly false : this

4. So no ! He never tanked anything stronger than Kyuubi. End of story.
The only thing he actually tanked was his own BD : this

It's becoming clear that you don't have anything to back you up so you're twisting facts and you should just admit it. 

And yes ! I agree with you, it's useless to continue this argument if you keep ignoring all my post and keep repeating the same thing over and over.


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## Nikushimi (Mar 23, 2016)

Gai doesn't know how the Raikage got his scar, so he's not deflecting one-finger Nukite back through the Raikage's chest unless it happens by accident...which isn't reliable. If you give Gai that intel, the Raikage needs only to scale back his Nukite to two or more fingers so that it doesn't pose a threat to him. Gai won't be able to do any damage and the Raikage will outlast his Gates.


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## fyhb (Mar 23, 2016)

Absolutely agree with this.

Come think of it Raikage doesn't need 1 Finger Nukite here so he will just 4 Fingers Nukite and will just outlast Gates and finish Gai off.

Even with Intel I think Raikage wins with Mid Difficulty at most.


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## Fluon (Mar 23, 2016)

Guy really don't need 7th Gate, he can easily beat the Raikage in 1st Gate with Omote Renge or maybe the 4th with Ura Renge if he's really tough.

Feat of the 3rd Raikage : Kill a bunch of nameless ninjas.

Feat of the 1st Gate Lee : Nearly killed Gaara.

Given that Guy is far more powerful, he could easily kill the Raikage.

1st Gate Guy wins low diff 10/10.


Edit : Reasoning by the absurd if you don't understand.


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## Veracity (Mar 23, 2016)

What kind of logic is that ? Being the sensei to someone who lost to PTS Gaara means that he is > to the 3rd Raikage?


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## Fluon (Mar 23, 2016)

Well people don't care about the Manga or Logic, so I'm going to lower to their childish level.


Guy in base with his nunchaku has in fact traded blows with Obito, what did Hachibi do against him ? Nothing, so Obito = Base Guy > Hachibi = Raikage.


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## fyhb (Mar 23, 2016)

What cam Giant Hachibi do against Small Human who can make his Body "Disappear" for Five Minutes!? It all falls to match ups.

And Gai winning with Lotus against someone who Tanked FRS and TBB!?

And Third Raikage destroys even Kazekage Gaara especially if not in a Desert. Gaara main weakness was Durability anx Speed against Lee so again it depends on the Match up and in this case Gai just can't win with just 7th Gate Speed and Attacks against someone who can Tank them and outlast him.

It seems we all are on " child" level because you can't show enough hard and correct facts to prove your point!


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## Veracity (Mar 23, 2016)

Fluon said:


> Well people don't care about the Manga or Logic, so I'm going to lower to their childish level.
> 
> 
> Guy in base with his nunchaku has in fact traded blows with Obito, what did Hachibi do against him ? Nothing, so Obito = Base Guy > Hachibi = Raikage.



Bruh .... This isn't worth my time.


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## fyhb (Mar 23, 2016)

Yup I will go with Likes boss and end my participation here.


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## Fluon (Mar 23, 2016)

Childish : Because you argue like a child. Recap of what you said : This is what I think, this is true, I can't hear you.



> Come think of it Raikage doesn't need 1 Finger Nukite here so he will just 4 Fingers Nukite and will just outlast Gates and finish Gai off.



How ? From what we have seen in the manga : Guy is as fast as juudara. Juudara > Minato > A and the Raikage is slower than SM Naruto. SM Naruto < KCM Naruto < A.

You fail to understand this simple reasonning for god's sake. Again, how powerful is the Raikage's attack,or Guy's ? Feat from the Manga :

Hirudora : Push back Juudara (a GOD), destroy Madara's V3 Susanoo

Nukite (all versions) : Went through a doton wall, cut Hachibi's tail's (done by a chidori of Sasuke).

You will never get "hard" evidence unless they actually fight, which will never happen as the manga is over but the Manga and the author is clear : Guy >>> Any Kage ever except Naruto. Only him could ever trade blows with Juudara with the exception of Rikudou Naruto and Sasuke.

This alone is hard evidence enough unless you want that for each panel the author clearly describes everything single detail and leaves no room for interpretation meaning this discussion would never happen.



> And Third Raikage destroys even Kazekage Gaara especially if not in a Desert. Gaara main weakness was Durability anx Speed against Lee so again it depends on the Match up and in this case Gai just can't win with just 7th Gate Speed and Attacks against someone who can Tank them and outlast him.



Reasoning by the absurd: Common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial, or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance.



Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> Yup I will go with Likes boss and end my participation here.



Glad to hear that because so far you fail to understand even the simplest form of logic and you keep spamming the same thing over and over, this is just plain annoying.


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## Skaddix (Mar 24, 2016)

None of that is relevant the only question is if Gai's Durability requires 1 Finger it doesn't ergo he doesn't have to use it. With knowledge he can just stall out to Gai runs out of energy has to leave Gates.


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## Fluon (Mar 24, 2016)

No you don't understand this debate. Even 5  or 6th Gate Guy easily evade his attack, there is no debate, he can't touch him. The Raikage is slower than SM Naruto, proof enough. 

The debate is if Hirudora is powerful enough to one shot him ? Which is yes : It destroyed Madara's V3 Susanoo. Or you would argue that he is more durable than a Susanoo which is laughable.

Or you can argue that he tanked Bijuudamas, the _burden of proof is upon you _ to prove that. But there is none, the manga has ended and from what we have all characters imply that BD would be very effective (Hachibi thinking it could, Naruto trying a mini BD, Hachibi being wrecked by his own BD).

Unless you have something to prove that, this argument over, the Raikage has nothing on Guy.


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## Ryuzaki (Mar 24, 2016)

Is this a joke? 

Gai solos with little or no difficulty, all versions of any Raikage are subpar when compared to 7th Gate Gai. 7th Gate Gai was pushing JJ Madara back, something no Raikage could accomplish on their own. 4th Raikage was getting solo'd and beat by Edo Madara clones and somehow he's going to be able to take on a faster, six-paths infused shinobi 

Hahaha...you guys make the battledome fun.


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## fyhb (Mar 24, 2016)

Except that in this Match Speed doesn't give Gai so big of Advantage and a 100% win,because of the Match up. 
He is faster but Raikage is way more Durable and can outlast and Tank.


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## Ryuzaki (Mar 24, 2016)

I don't know about that, I still think AT > FRS, so unless there's a reason to believe otherwise, I'll just go ahead stick to that.


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## fyhb (Mar 24, 2016)

You should take into consideration that FRS is Fuuton which as Raikage Main Weakness while AT is Blunt Force DMG Fist which have big Area Impact but doesn't make stronger or better than FRS ,it is quite situational for which is better.

So I would say in this particular case FRS is above AR because of the Nature of the Attack and it's affinity and this means AT will be Tanked by Raikage with Low to Mid Difficulty,considering he had Tanked a TBB from Hachibi.


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## Ryuzaki (Mar 25, 2016)

Yeah, don't see that happening at all, 3rd Raikage might be the most durable character in the game, but if Gai went 8th Gate, he would tear him in half. No one would argue that, I mean...you could argue against it but lol. I think he's already got him beat in 7th Gate, because people have seen the attack used against weaker characters, they automatically assume it'd fail. People forget that AT leveled Madara's Susano'o...


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## fyhb (Mar 25, 2016)

8th Gate Gai is completely different story,I can't argue that he will crush Raikage like a bug. But I most certainly can't see 7th Gate Gai beating the Raikage head on with Hirudora.


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## Itachі (Mar 25, 2016)

Gai has no knowledge on Raikage's scar so he's going to lose.


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## Fluon (Mar 25, 2016)

Itachі said:


> Gai has no knowledge on Raikage's scar so he's going to lose.




Read the manga and the thread before you talk.




Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> Except that in this Match Speed doesn't give Gai so big of Advantage and a 100% win,because of the Match up.
> He is faster but Raikage is way more Durable and can outlast and Tank.




No that's not what the manga says, read it.




Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> You should take into consideration that FRS is Fuuton which as Raikage Main Weakness while AT is Blunt Force DMG Fist which have big Area Impact but doesn't make stronger or better than FRS ,it is quite situational for which is better.
> 
> So I would say in this particular case FRS is above AR because of the Nature of the Attack and it's affinity and this means AT will be Tanked by Raikage with Low to Mid Difficulty,considering he had Tanked a TBB from Hachibi.




No he didn't tank anything, I've shown my arguments backed by panels, you repeat your opinions without answering my points. Do you think Hachibi is less durable than the Raikage ?


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## Ryuzaki (Mar 25, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> 8th Gate Gai is completely different story,I can't argue that he will crush Raikage like a bug. But I most certainly can't see 7th Gate Gai beating the Raikage head on with Hirudora.



Honestly, I don't know Hirudora has a massive blast radius and Gai is fast enough to hit him point blank. Raikage's durability is high but I don't see him surviving that, I mean, only reason why Kisame even remotely survived was due to slowing it down via his Kamehameha.


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## Fluon (Mar 25, 2016)

The debate resumes :
Did the Raikage tank or dodge the Bijuudama ?

Then if he did tank Bijuudamas and survive with no trace, it would lead to this question :
Is the Nukite far stronger to pierce the Raikage while the BD did not leave any trace ? Which is unlikely given its feats which resumes to cutting Hachibi's tails (something done by a giant shuriken and a Chidori) and destroying a doton wall.

Now the other question is : Can the Raikage tank a Hirudora ?
To answer that we must ask what are its capability as shown in the manga which are destroying Madara's V3 Susanoo, one shotting Kisame and pushing back Juudara. Given its feat of destroying a V3 Susanoo, it leads to : Is the Raikage stronger than Susanoo ? I personally think it's no.

So if you think that the Raikage can tank a hirudora, then you also think that the Raikage is more durable than Madara's V3 Susanoo and Hachibi, which is unlikely. As for the rest, even 5th or 6th Gate Guy can easily dodge anything that the Raikage can throw at him.


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