# Raikage vs. Killer Bee



## Intus Legere (Sep 11, 2009)

*Location:* Unraikyo
*Distance:* 100m
*Restrictions:* Bijuu form is forbidden for Killer Bee, however, tailed forms (as powerful and as many as shown in manga) are allowed.


Both are bloodlusted, and they see no reason to take this battle lightly.


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## Violent by Design (Sep 11, 2009)

Kirabi wins if he has Raori Atto. They both clash, but Bijuu juice trumps Raiton juice.


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## machiavelli2009 (Sep 11, 2009)

yup, killer bee is sligthly stronger but slower. good battle but this is a case of the younger brother being the victor


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## Sadgoob (Sep 11, 2009)

I'll wait to see more from the Raikage. Killerbee already praised his brother pretty highly by stating his brother was the only other person to avoid a charge in his tailed state. I have to assume that the Raikage is the Raikage for a reason - strength being one of them. But we'll soon see I suppose.


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## mastergimmy (Sep 11, 2009)

Id say raikage, they both hav bijuu level chakra but raikage seems to be the more speedy one and powerful


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## kyuubi sennin (Sep 11, 2009)

I think Killer Bee wins with his tailed form because Hachibi is smarter than both brothers.


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## machiavelli2009 (Sep 11, 2009)

elaborate!!! and in 3 tails killer bee is still in control


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## CrazyMoronX (Sep 11, 2009)

KB has shown a lot more durability. He tanked that crater-making assault from Jugo, the Chidori didn't even scratch him, and he broke out of Tsukiyomi (yeah, that's right ).

He also has chakra swords to pierce Raikage's raiton aura. What's Raikage gonna do, punch him? Gimme a break.


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## Csdabest (Sep 11, 2009)

Raikage has shown to be both stronger and faster than Kirabi. and was already stated to be the strongest in kumo. Not to mentioned he already dodged rari atto before


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## Ragormha (Sep 12, 2009)

CrazyMoronX said:


> KB has shown a lot more durability. He tanked that crater-making assault from Jugo,



Which one? He dodged both anyway.



> the Chidori didn't even scratch him,



Wasn't a real Chidori, it was made to stun. That, or Bee diffused it. He obviously didn't physically tank the attack.  



> and he broke out of Tsukiyomi (yeah, that's right ).



Nah, _Hachibi broke him out._ 



> He also has chakra swords to pierce Raikage's raiton aura. What's *Raikage gonna do, punch him?* Gimme a break.



Yes. 

Also, read the latest chapter.


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## Intus Legere (Sep 12, 2009)

Just as a reminder, Killer Bee can use tailed states in this match; he isn't restricted to, and probably won't rely on, his swordwork; especially against an enemy like the raikage, whom he should know very well.


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## Tiger (Sep 12, 2009)

lol @ Killerbee breaking out of Tsukiyomi.

What Tsukiyomi? Sasuke hasn't used that yet.

As for Raikage, he's not done showing us his power yet.


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## Emperor JJ (Sep 12, 2009)

Illusory said:


> I'll wait to see more from the Raikage. Killerbee already praised his brother pretty highly by stating his brother was the only other person to avoid a charge in his tailed state. I have to assume that the Raikage is the Raikage for a reason - strength being one of them. But we'll soon see I suppose.



I completely agree with you! The Raikage didn't show all he's got yet.
Let's wait untill the fight between him and Sasuke for this.


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## machiavelli2009 (Sep 12, 2009)

the fight btw the raikage and sauce is gonna b ova in the next chapter, raikage has amateratsu on his arm. he is gonna die by that mistake. 
on the topic i say its an even match 5/10 for both.
dragon bal z kinda match!lol!!!


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## IzanagiRikudo (Jun 1, 2010)

they match in strength. V2 for Killer Bee is equal to Raikage in full Raiton Armor. But Raikage still has the upper hand because of his speed.


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## Alita (Jun 1, 2010)

IzanagiRikudo said:


> they match in strength. V2 for Killer Bee is equal to Raikage in full Raiton Armor. But Raikage still has the upper hand because of his speed.


I'm uprised you necroed this. 

But I agree with you raikage wins due to speed advantage.


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## Final Jutsu (Jun 1, 2010)

I say Raikage.  I don't think bee would be able to land enough hits.  We know raikage has dodged bees rariatto before.


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## Turrin (Jun 1, 2010)

Bee wins with Ease; Their is nothing Raikage can do to V2. Considering Knowledge here is default Manga; Bee would know his brother can't do shit to V2 and would just go V2 at the Start of the match. 

And even if V2 can't match Raikage in Speed(Which i doubt); If Raikage comes in close to attack V2 he will be ripped in half and if Raikage tries to play the waiting Game he will be outlasted by Bee who has Greater Stamina(as he has huge stamina himself and the stamina of the Second Strongest Bijuu).


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## Nikushimi (Jun 1, 2010)

Turrin said:


> Bee wins with Ease; Their is nothing Raikage can do to V2. Considering Knowledge here is default Manga; Bee would know his brother can't do shit to V2 and would just go V2 at the Start of the match.
> 
> And even if V2 can't match Raikage in Speed(Which i doubt); If Raikage comes in close to attack V2 he will be ripped in half and if Raikage tries to play the waiting Game he will be outlasted by Bee who has Greater Stamina(as he has huge stamina himself and the stamina of the Second Strongest Bijuu).



Raikage has Bijuu-level Stamina/chakra himself. He won't be outlasted, and with his incredible Shunshin ability, he will dance around Bee.

And no, he won't be ripped in half with one attack, that's insane. Raikage can match Bee's V2 blow for blow. They are about the same with Raikage having the edge in speed.

He wins, with a great amount of difficulty.


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## Turrin (Jun 1, 2010)

> Raikage has Bijuu-level Stamina/chakra himself.


We've been through this Nikushimi; Raikage was hitting Bijuu levels meaning he was barely Bijuu level aka Closer to Shukaku then Hachibi and Beyond that Bee has the Chakra of Hachibi and Himself so his Chakra/Stamina > Just the Hachibi's alone.

So yes Raikage will be outlasted



> and with his incredible Shunshin ability, he will dance around Bee.


No he won't V1 Bee was keeping up with Raikage perfectly fine. 



> And no, he won't be ripped in half with one attack, that's insane. Raikage can match Bee's V2 blow for blow. They are about the same with Raikage having the edge in speed.


No thats Ridiculous Raikage has not shown any level of Strength that suggest he is on Par with V2; Maybe he is on Par with V1, but probably not even that. 



> He wins, with a great amount of difficulty.


Bee wins with Ease.


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## Phoenix Zoro (Jun 1, 2010)

killerbee mid diff, initially, it seems as if raikage has the speed edge and strength edge, but killerbee can keep with him, just cant hit him. The attack with 7 swords from bee proves futile too. But as soon as hachibi gets involved with various cloaks, the strength gap decreases as does the speed until they match and even surpass raikage. Raikage isnt versatile enough imo to beat bee, although its a good matchup for e


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 1, 2010)

They keep pounding each other with heavy blows left and right until Raikage amps up his shroud and destroys bee with a 300 km/h Lariat. 

I'd say they are pretty evenly matched with Raikage having a significant edge in speed. I am leaning towards raikage with moderate - high difficulty.


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## propooper98 (Jun 1, 2010)

you guys get too worked up on these forums <-.->


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jun 2, 2010)

Turrin said:


> We've been through this Nikushimi; Raikage was hitting Bijuu levels meaning he was barely Bijuu level aka Closer to Shukaku then Hachibi and Beyond that Bee has the Chakra of Hachibi and Himself so his Chakra/Stamina > Just the Hachibi's alone.
> 
> So yes Raikage will be outlasted


Iphr0z3nI posting in the battle dome? Bored and telegrams is closed.

Anyone on the post. I'm surprised you stated Raikage would be outlasted, on second thought it is  Turrin, you state questionable baseless things all the time, AS WE ALL DO from time to time, some more than others sadly. Anyways, what evidence do you have to suggest he would be outlasted, in fact what evidence are you giving to even suggest the fight would go the distance? In fact most fights ends with a person falling to a jutsu opposed to stamina problem for most, minus Itachi/Kakashi. 






> No he won't V1 Bee was keeping up with Raikage perfectly fine.


The same V1 that Sasuke had no trouble dodging, but seemingly couldn't keep up with the Raikage powered up shroud? Raikage speed is in a class of it's own, he is the only one to dodge the unavoidable Amaterasu at point blank range. Something Bee failed to do, and completely blitz the sharingan, something bee has not done. 




> No thats Ridiculous Raikage has not shown any level of Strength that suggest he is on Par with V2; Maybe he is on Par with V1, but probably not even that.


What? Are you serious? Susano bones>>>>>>>> Kisame's Samehada/ribs. Please oh please, just stop posting if you are going to state such BS,  such as this. V2 has shown very little, but yet you cling to it as if is the next coming of Jesus. V2 is an inferior version to Full tailed Biju mode, something Raikage showed no signs of hindrance, given that he was the one that broke it's horn. 




> Bee wins with Ease.


BS. Raikage has been implied to be the strongest of Kumo, by both his position and Bee's own words. Raikage is the Raikage for a reason, as the kage position is usually given to the strongest member of the village, the exception being Konoha, and KONOHA ONLY.  The hidden mist/sand/stone.


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## Cursed Avenger (Jun 2, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> BS. Raikage has been implied to be the strongest of Kumo, by both his position and Bee's own words. Raikage is the Raikage for a reason, as the kage position is usually given to the strongest member of the village, the exception being Konoha, and KONOHA ONLY.  The hidden mist/sand/stone.



Not necessarily, just look at the Mizukage.


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## Turrin (Jun 2, 2010)

> Anyone on the post. I surprised stated Raikage would be outlasted, on second thought it is Turrin, you state questionable baseless things all the time, AS WE ALL DO from time to time, some more than others sadly. Anyways, what evidence do you have to suggest he would be outlasted, in fact what evidence are you giving to even suggest the fight would go the distance? In fact most fights ends with a person falling to a jutsu opposed to stamina problem for most, minus Itachi/Kakashi.


The Fact that Bee has Greater Stamina then Raikage; Raikage was hitting Bijuu levels the Language used there means he was just barely reaching the level that would be considered Bijuu; Thats more Shukaku level then Hachibi level.

And Beyond that Bee has his own Chakra plus the chakra of Second Strongest Bijuu; So its quite obvious he has more.

Whether or not the Fight will come down to a Stamina contest is another story; I was merely asserting if it did Bee would come out on Top. 



> The same V1 that Sasuke had no trouble dodging, but seemingly couldn't keep up with the Raikage powered up shroud?


Sasuke dodged Raiton Shroud Raikage As well or are you forgetting this;


Raikage showed he could power up his Shroud more, but so could Bee as Sasuke only dodged V1 HB3 and Bee is capable of going to V1 HB8. Raikage also showed he was a master of Shunshin, but So is Bee. Only difference is we haven't seen V1 HB8 Bee use Shunshin yet in the manga. 



> Raikage speed is in a class of it's own,


Not really Bee Despite being Exhausted after the Kisame fight kept pace with Raiton Shroud Raikage to perform Double Laraite:





> he is the only one to dodge the unavoidable Amaterasu at point blank range


Sasuke Dodged Amaterasu for a time during the Itachi fight:




He was eventually hit, but he did accomplish Dodging it for a set period of time.



> Something Bee failed to do


Amaterasu has never been Test out against Bee's V1 HB8 using Shunshin or V2 using Shunshin. 



> and completely blitz the sharingan, something bee has not done.






Not to mention; The Sharigan has never gone up against Bee's Fastest Forms like V1 HB8 and V2. 



> What? Are you serious? Susano bones>>>>>>>> Kisame's Samehada/ribs. Please oh please, just stop posting if you are going to state such BS, such as this. V2 has shown very little, but yet you cling to it as if is the next coming of Jesus. V2 is an inferior version to Full tailed Biju mode, something Raikage showed no signs of hindrance, given that he was the one that broke it's horn.


Yeah No; Susano'o Rips do not offer the Same level of Defense as Samehada which absorbs chakra from the blow before it hits it and is empowered by Bijuu chakra. If you really think Raikage can Bust through the Ribs but V2 Laraite can't this is a truly pointless debate. 



> BS. Raikage has been implied to be the strongest of Kumo, by both his position and Bee's own words. Raikage is the Raikage for a reason, as the kage position is usually given to the strongest member of the village, the exception being Konoha, and KONOHA ONLY. The hidden mist/sand/stone.



-A is Raikage because he is the older brother and was selected as Raikage before Bee even became the Host of the Hachibi and was 5 years old; After all thats why Bee was picked as the Hachibi's host to begin with:


-I Fail to see how Bee's words suggest Raikage is stronger then him; Bee Stated Raikage was the only person other then Sasuke who could deflect his V1 Laraite, which is a complement, but hardly means that Raikage is stronger then him

-As for Konoha Being the only Exception to the rule that the Kage is the Strongest person in the village; You have Zero Proof that this is true. We lacked detailed history and accounts of the previous Hokage and Ninja in each village so there is no way you could possibly know this. 

Beyond this fact; What does a village do if one brother is already nominated for the seat of Kage when the other brother is 5 years old and despised as a jinchruiki. Then Times Passes and the other brother becomes a Hero and more powerful then the current kage, but has no interest in being kage. Do they replace a seasoned vet Kage who is more then capable of holding the position for another 5-10 years and force the younger brother to become Kage against his wishes or do they simply wait for the current Kage to step down and hand over the position.

The Acting policy of one Kage stepping down and handing the position to another shinobi seems the most likely and most implicated in the manga.


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## alchemy1234 (Jun 2, 2010)

Wasn't bee afraid of raikage?? someone in the manga said, raikage is the only person who could control bee.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jun 2, 2010)

Cursed Avenger said:


> Not necessarily, just look at the Mizukage.



Mizukage is not the strongest of her village?


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## Sajin Komamura (Jun 2, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Iphr0z3nI posting in the battle dome? Bored and telegrams is closed.
> 
> Anyone on the post. I surprised stated Raikage would be outlasted, on second thought it is  Turrin, you state questionable baseless things all the time, AS WE ALL DO from time to time, some more than others sadly. Anyways, what evidence do you have to suggest he would be outlasted, in fact what evidence are you giving to even suggest the fight would go the distance? In fact most fights ends with a person falling to a jutsu opposed to stamina problem for most, minus Itachi/Kakashi.
> 
> ...



The most logical post in this thread from what I have read so far. Raikage being stronger than Killer Bee is a manga fact as it was pretty much stated/hinted. Although featwise I will admit Bee's latest performance was impressive, but if Bee recognizes Raikage as his superior then that should be enough to decide the victor. Raikage wins but with high difficulty as the 8 tailed Jinchuriki is one tough customer.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jun 2, 2010)

Turrin said:


> The Fact that Bee has Greater Stamina then Raikage; Raikage was hitting Bijuu levels the Language used there means he was just barely reaching the level that would be considered Bijuu; Thats more Shukaku level then Hachibi level.


I've said before, stamina wouldn't make a different, as most battles do not end because of stamina. 



> And Beyond that Bee has his own Chakra plus the chakra of Second Strongest Bijuu; So its quite obvious he has more.


Still doesn't make a difference, if the fight does not last that long. Sasuke beat Naruto, and Naruto not only had more chakara, but the chakara of the strongest biju and still lost. Stamina only plays a role if the fight goes the distance, which is most cases do not. 



> Whether or not the Fight will come down to a Stamina contest is another story; I was merely asserting if it did Bee would come out on Top.


Fair enough I do not argue your assessment on this.




> Sasuke dodged Raiton Shroud Raikage As well or are you forgetting this;


But was unable to keep up when he turned it up.






> Raikage showed he could power up his Shroud more, but so could Bee as Sasuke only dodged V1 HB3 and Bee is capable of going to V1 HB8. Raikage also showed he was a master of Shunshin, but So is Bee. Only difference is we haven't seen V1 HB8 Bee use Shunshin yet in the manga.


And what evidence do you have that Bee's shroud would make a difference in his speed? Kisame was still able to keep up, and counter Bee quite fine regardless. And he does not have the sharingan, nor has he exhibited the reaction speed of a Uchiha. Further more the biggest assessment to Raikage speed is not blitzing the sharingan, but dodging a POINT BLANK, Amaterasu. 




> Not really Bee Despite being Exhausted after the Kisame fight kept pace with Raiton Shroud Raikage to perform Double Laraite:


Samehada gave him chakara.

Remember Bee, was only tired from being drained of chakara, the only type of damage Kisame did. Him gaining chakara is all he needed to get back in the fight, and Bee does not look exhausted whats so ever in those panels. Even able to power up to Full version 1, which actually is counterproductive to what you are trying to suggest. 




> Sasuke Dodged Amaterasu for a time during the Itachi fight:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He got hit, and it wasn't at point blank range. Raikage on the other hand did not get hit, and was at point blank range. Lets not even consider the possibility of Sasuke at that time, having a much better eyesight, than Itachi at his time. 




> Amaterasu has never been Test out against Bee's V1 HB8 using Shunshin or V2 using Shunshin.


It doesn't matter it still would have it, judging by those performance against Kisame. Kisame had no problem timing his sword swings to counter a blitzing Bee, with both V1 and V2. Bee even commented that the Raikage was fast enough to avoid his lariat so what is the point? 




> Not to mention; The Sharigan has never gone up against Bee's Fastest Forms like V1 HB8 and V2.


V1 and V2 speed were not SHOWN TO BE GREATER than the 3 tail state against Sasuke. Bee's speed has not been hype on to the extent of Raikage's, and that is just the absolute truth when it comes down to it. Raikage is faster than Bee, period. 




> Yeah No; Susano'o Rips do not offer the Same level of Defense as Samehada which absorbs chakra from the blow before it hits it and is empowered by Bijuu chakra. If you really think Raikage can Bust through the Ribs but V2 Laraite can't this is a truly pointless debate.


Uh what does absorbing chakara have to do with tanking blows? I haven't seen Samehada being used to tank hardly anything, and when it was, it got what the fuck fucked up. Meanwhile Kisame was still hit as a result. You want to claim it being a good defense, but Samehada failed to protect bee from getting his chest blown off? 

Susano RIBS on the other hand has saved Sasuke from MULTIPLE ATTACKS of ALL KINDS. Please do not statements such as this, you lose credibility.  Absorbing chakara does not = A defensive maneuver entirely. If that was the case Preda would be the king when it came to defense, sadly it didn't save him from being owned by Naruto's using taijutsu on a number of occasions. 

V2. has not shown to be impressive in terms of damage, in fact it did the same damage on Kisame, that 3tail state did on Sasuke. V2 has been hype up by you and only you; with little feats to prove it self. Susano Ribs were able to prevent Sasuke from being hurt by the Raikage bomb, which had a 100% kill rate, and look to be far more powerful than any lariat presented by Bee. 





> -A is Raikage because he is the older brother and was selected as Raikage before Bee even became the Host of the Hachibi and was 5 years old; After all thats why Bee was picked as the Hachibi's host to begin with:
> 
> Konkuro/temari are both older than Gara, but who is Kage. Stop reaching for excuses other than the fact that he is stronger.
> 
> ...


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## Cursed Avenger (Jun 3, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Mizukage is not the strongest of her village?



I doubt it. Ninja who are currently stronger than her would be Kisame and Madara. Heck, based off of what she's shown,  Suigetsu could beat her in a one on one fight.


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## Turrin (Jun 3, 2010)

> Fair enough I do not argue your assessment on this.


Okay then



> But was unable to keep up when he turned it up.


Are you sure because it sure looks like he use Enton to shape the Amaterasu Flames around his Susano'o in response to Raikage's attack to me. 

He wasn't able to keep against Raikage very well, but i think him being unable to keep up at all is a bit of an overestimation of Raikage's speed. The only time Sasuke really couldn't keep up is when Raikage used Shunshin



> And what evidence do you have that Bee's shroud would make a difference in his speed?


That Fact that Bijuu Chakra has been shown to increase Speed and Physical attributes. And the Greater the quantity the Greater the increase.



> Kisame was still able to keep up, and counter Bee quite fine regardless. And he does not have the sharingan, nor has he exhibited the reaction speed of a Uchiha.


Kisame never kept up with Bee when Bee was in V1 or V2



> Further more the biggest assessment to Raikage speed is not blitzing the sharingan, but dodging a POINT BLANK, Amaterasu.


With Shunshin he accomplished this. 



> Samehada gave him chakara.
> 
> Remember Bee, was only tired from being drained of chakara, the only type of damage Kisame did. Him gaining chakara is all he needed to get back in the fight, and Bee does not look exhausted whats so ever in those panels. Even able to power up to Full version 1, which actually is counterproductive to what you are trying to suggest.


Samehada giving him back a portion of his chakra does not change the fact that he would still be exhausted both Physical and Mentally from his fight with Kisame. It also doesn't change the fact that he kept up with Raikage's speed perfectly fine.



> He got hit, and it wasn't at point blank range. Raikage on the other hand did not get hit, and was at point blank range. Lets not even consider the possibility of Sasuke at that time, having a much better eyesight, than Itachi at his time.


I'm not saying Sasuke's feat is as good as the Raikage's; I'm just say that Sasuke was also able to accomplish it for a little while before getting hit. 



> It doesn't matter it still would have it, judging by those performance against Kisame. Kisame had no problem timing his sword swings to counter a blitzing Bee, with both V1 and V2. Bee even commented that the Raikage was fast enough to avoid his lariat so what is the point?


I don't see what any of this has to do with the Speed of Bee using Shunshin when in V1 and V2, which has yet to be seen in the manga. 



> V1 and V2 speed were not SHOWN TO BE GREATER than the 3 tail state against Sasuke. Bee's speed has not been hype on to the extent of Raikage's, and that is just the absolute truth when it comes down to it.


There hasn't been a chance to show speed increases because of the nature of the close combat battle between Bee and Kisame. Although Bee keeping up with Raikage could be considered a Speed feat for V1



> Raikage is faster than Bee, period.


Thats why he kept up with him right?



> Uh what does absorbing chakara have to do with tanking blows?


Bee's Laraite is made out of Condensed chakra; If a large portion of that chakra is absorb before the blow lands it will weaken the blow. 



> I haven't seen Samehada being used to tank hardly anything, and when it was, it got what the fuck fucked up. Meanwhile Kisame was still hit as a result. You want to claim it being a good defense, but Samehada failed to protect bee from getting his chest blown off?


Kisame was still hit because thats just how strong V2 Laraite is. Its not like a Bijuu empowered Samehada is not a good defense. 



> Susano RIBS on the other hand has saved Sasuke from MULTIPLE ATTACKS of ALL KINDS. Please do not statements such as this, you lose credibility. Absorbing chakara does not = A defensive maneuver entirely. If that was the case Preda would be the king when it came to defense, sadly it didn't save him from being owned by Naruto's using taijutsu on a number of occasions.
> 
> V2. has not shown to be impressive in terms of damage, in fact it did the same damage on Kisame, that 3tail state did on Sasuke. V2 has been hype up by you and only you; with little feats to prove it self. Susano Ribs were able to prevent Sasuke from being hurt by the Raikage bomb, which had a 100% kill rate, and look to be far more powerful than any lariat presented by Bee.


The Fact that it did similar damage to Kisame that V1 HB3 Laraite did to Sasuke proves how powerful it is. Since V2 Laraite had to go through a Bijuu chakra empowered Samehada while getting its chakra absorbed to get to Kisame



> Konkuro/temari are both older than Gara, but who is Kage. Stop reaching for excuses other than the fact that he is stronger.


Was Garaa 5 Years Old when Temari and Kankuro were like 18-20 years old? 



> How about the Raikage being called by the manga to be the strongest of the Komogakure, or him giving the position


Mistranslation



> that represents him being the strongest of the village?


This is not always the case as were are shown in the manga



> No my friend the burden of proof falls upon you. From the beginning the manga has stated that the Kage is the strongest person of the village. This has been proven true for almost all the occasions. Minato, the first, the second, the other major villages, Pein's village etc. etc. The only exception is Tsunade, and sarutobi in is older days, please do not tell me to give evidence, when the correlation is there in front of your very eyes.
> 
> It as if asking a doctor to provide you proof that smoking does cause lung cancer, because your daddy who smoked all his life, died of natural causes. Tsunade/Sarutobi are the exception to a long list of examples that followed Kage=strongest of the village rule. Please do not lose credibility by suggesting I need evidence, when the correlations are there.


Actually the burden of proof is one you bud. I'm saying the Kage is not always the Strongest in the village; Tsunade and Old Sarutobi Prove this. My point that this is not always the Case is Prove to be a fact.

Your the one suggesting that this only happens in Konoha and this has never happened in any of the other 4 Hidden villages. So yes if you going to assert that claim you better bring some proof. 



> First of Bee was five when he recieved the Hachibi, not when A became the Raikage, which is still uknown. Which really destroys your argument now does it?


Bee was picked as Next Hachibi host because A was selected to be Raikage:




> It is also an active policy for the Kage position to be handed to the most qualified person. And a big part of that qualification is strength, for EVERY VILLAGE, minus on two occasions in Konoha; The strongest shinobi in the village was the Kage. Without evidence to prove this not to be the case, it is safe to go with the traditional correlation that kage = strongest of the village.


Does Bee seem emotionally qualified or mature enough to run a village?  And yes we have been shown thats a major part of it as well


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jun 3, 2010)

Turrin said:


> Okay then
> 
> 
> Are you sure because it sure looks like he use Enton to shape the Amaterasu Flames around his Susano'o in response to Raikage's attack to me.


I agree that is very plausible, but that wouldn't change the nature of the situation. He could not keep up in speed, thus he decided to utilize the turtle defense and counter. Very technical move, on Sasuke's part, but had to resort to such a method due to his inability to no longer spot the Raikage. 



> He wasn't able to keep against Raikage very well, but i think him being unable to keep up at all is a bit of an overestimation of Raikage's speed. The only time Sasuke really couldn't keep up is when Raikage used Shunshin


Which Raikage uses quite often, and you forget Sasuke was only able to keep up due to the Sharingan, something Bee does not have. 




> That Fact that Bijuu Chakra has been shown to increase Speed and Physical attributes. And the Greater the quantity the Greater the increase.


That trait has been sketchy at best, Pein was able to play keep away with the Kyubi 6, without utilizing any speed techniques. But lets ignore Kyubi and focus on bee. Has Bee shown an increase with speed, while adding tails? No infact Kisame had no trouble timing his sword swings against V1, or V2. You want to argue that chakara has shown to increase speed and physical aspect, but that has only been clearly case for Naruto. Bee, has shown nothing impressive in terms of speed throughout the transformations. 




> Kisame never kept up with Bee when Bee was in V1 or V2


He didn't?



Kisame is certainly having no problem timing his swords swings.

Let me ask you do you see any difference between how he handle base, and V1 Bee? I certainly don't lets continue.


Kisame certainly was blitz by V2, but I don't really think he was really cared at that point. I reckon his goal was simply to make contact with Bee, to absorb his chakara. After all he was going to be healed either way.





> With Shunshin he accomplished this.


Does it matter how he accomplished it? It is still impressive. You are nit picking at this point. As most speed feats have only been presented while using shushin. Certainly all of Sasuke's, Raikage's, and Naruto's have come when they have utilized shushin. 

But lets stay on this point for a bit longer, certainly shushin is not enough to dodge Amaterasu on it's own. Raikage's reaction speed was certainly top notch, just thought I mention that. 




> Samehada giving him back a portion of his chakra does not change the fact that he would still be exhausted both Physical and Mentally from his fight with Kisame. It also doesn't change the fact that he kept up with Raikage's speed perfectly fine.


Really physically and mentally? How did conjure that up? Kisame barely grazed Bee, he was minimally injured him under water, but that was about it. Mentally? seriously? Hachibi was affected by some genjutsu from Kisame? Please do not make up stuff to better your argument, Bee was out of chakara, once Samehada gave him some energy he was up and at em. 

Yea B certainly looks mentally and physically injured here.





> I'm not saying Sasuke's feat is as good as the Raikage's; I'm just say that Sasuke was also able to accomplish it for a little while before getting hit.


I'm sorry, but there is no accomplishing it a little, you either dodged it or you didn't. And what does Sasuke have to do with Bee anyway?




> I don't see what any of this has to do with the Speed of Bee using Shunshin when in V1 and V2, which has yet to be seen in the manga.


You are right we have seen very little of it, but yet it is hype by you as the best thing since slice bread. Bee was stated to be fast, but Raikage proved in terms of speed, he is KING. 




> There hasn't been a chance to show speed increases because of the nature of the close combat battle between Bee and Kisame. Although Bee keeping up with Raikage could be considered a Speed feat for V1


And Raikage and Sasuke did not fight in close quarters? This is a very weak excuse, on your part. Almost all battles in part 2 have been a close quarters battle.




> Thats why he kept up with him right?


He kept up with him? When did they battle? Are you refering to this?

1. Raikage, was not using his powered up shroud. 2. Was he even trying to outpace him? It was a combination attack, of course it has to be in sync. Please stop with the weak evidence incorporated with fan fiction. 




> Bee's Laraite is made out of Condensed chakra; If a large portion of that chakra is absorb before the blow lands it will weaken the blow.


Not this argument again, no matter how much chakara was absorbed. Bee still had more tails presents at the end of the exchange, than he had on the lariat used against Sasuke. Again as much as you want to argue this, the panels don't lie. 




> Kisame was still hit because thats just how strong V2 Laraite is. Its not like a Bijuu empowered Samehada is not a good defense.


It is not, if it wasn't able to prevent and or minimize the damage. 




> The Fact that it did similar damage to Kisame that V1 HB3 Laraite did to Sasuke proves how powerful it is. Since V2 Laraite had to go through a Bijuu chakra empowered Samehada while getting its chakra absorbed to get to Kisame


Or how little the added tails makes a difference in the attack. Again, it depends on how you want to look at it. Samehada, was not much of a factor defensively, it was not a direct obstacle in front of Bee. Especially examining this panel.

Does Samehada look in the slightest bit, like it is trying to guard Bee? In fact why would it need to, if could heal him either way.  




> Was Garaa 5 Years Old when Temari and Kankuro were like 18-20 years old?


Did Raikage become Kage when Bee was 5? Please read, before posting. 




> Mistranslation


Proof please. Otherwise do not make such strong accusations. 




> This is not always the case as were are shown in the manga


The majority of the time it is, the exceptions have been proven to be exceptions. 




> Actually the burden of proof is one you bud. I'm saying the Kage is not always the Strongest in the village; Tsunade and Old Sarutobi Prove this. My point that this is not always the Case is Prove to be a fact.


How is it upon me, when I have the better correlation? The better probability of being right. You do know what the word exception means right? It is a word that is usually affiliated with not going against the norm. Thus is why I gave you the cigarette example. 



> Your the one suggesting that this only happens in Konoha and this has never happened in any of the other 4 Hidden villages. So yes if you going to assert that claim you better bring some proof.


Correction that has only happened twice in Konoha, thus they are the only one that have shown an exception to the rule. Kumogakure is NOT Konoha, thus they have shown no clemency against the rules. Why do I have to provide proof? I am relying on the correlation and probability which is definitely in my favor. You on the other hand, are the one relying on the the exception. You are the one who needs to prove ME WRONG. 


[QUOTEBee was picked as Next Hachibi host because A was selected to be Raikage:
[/QUOTE]
Where does it say that? Are you making words up? The manga never stated that A became Kage, when Bee first became the host. 




> Does Bee seem emotionally qualified or mature enough to run a village?  And yes we have been shown thats a major part of it as well


Neither did the Raikage at first, his anger cost him an arm. Both of them have quirky traits that, you can use to question they're leadership. In fact almost all the Kage's have quirks in which to question there position. Raikage = anger, Gara = experience etc. etc. But they've got there position. And I'm sure strength played a major role in it.


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2010)

> I agree that is very plausible, but that wouldn't change the nature of the situation. He could not keep up in speed, thus he decided to utilize the turtle defense and counter. Very technical move, on Sasuke's part, but had to resort to such a method due to his inability to no longer spot the Raikage.


He was staring in Raikages direction again it looked like he spot Raikage, but couldn't move fast enough physical to escape the attack so he shaped Enton around Susano'o.

Again the only time he really lost Sight of Raikage was when Raikage used Shunshin. 



> Which Raikage uses quite often,


Raikage used Shunshin once in that battle; So i have no clue what your talking about there



> and you forget Sasuke was only able to keep up due to the Sharingan, something Bee does not have


Bee is also Faster then Sasuke and much more Adept in Taijutsu/Kenjutsu.



> That trait has been sketchy at best, Pein was able to play keep away with the Kyubi 6, without utilizing any speed techniques. But lets ignore Kyubi and focus on bee.


You Seriously think Base Naruto can move this fast:



Whether or not Pain was able escape the Mindless KN6 is irrelevant to the fact that its clear the KN6 Transformation Drastically increased Naruto's Speed. 



> Has Bee shown an increase with speed, while adding tails?


Yes; HB3 was clearly faster then Base Bee. 



> No infact Kisame had no trouble timing his sword swings against V1, or V2. You want to argue that chakara has shown to increase speed and physical aspect, but that has only been clearly case for Naruto.


I have no clue how you can possibly judge the speed of V1 HB8 and V2 HB7 off the Kisame fight when both Transformations were getting absorbed instantly and everything happened at extremely close range, so there was no chance to accurately measure Bee's Speed. 



> Bee, has shown nothing impressive in terms of speed throughout the transformations.


Are you kidding me? Compare this to Base Mode:





> He didn't?
> 
> 
> 
> Kisame is certainly having no problem timing his swords swings.



1)The First Picture Bee is in Base Mode; So it has no relevance to what i said

2)Then in the Second Set of Pictures Samehada itself Parried the blow for Kisame; In-fact suggesting exactly what i said which is Kisame wasn't able to do this



> Let me ask you do you see any difference between how he handle base, and V1 Bee? I certainly don't lets continue.


Yeah i do; Kisame Managed to Parry Base Bee on his own. Against V1 Kisame Needed Semahada's Help to do so. So yes a speed increase is suggested.



> Kisame certainly was blitz by V2, but I don't really think he was really cared at that point. I reckon his goal was simply to make contact with Bee, to absorb his chakara. After all he was going to be healed either way.


So wait your trying to prove their wasn't a speed increased by showing Kisame get Blitzed by a V2? I fail to see how this has any relevance at all. 



> Does it matter how he accomplished it? It is still impressive. You are nit picking at this point. As most speed feats have only been presented while using shushin. Certainly all of Sasuke's, Raikage's, and Naruto's have come when they have utilized shushin.


The Reason i'm point out that its Shunshin is that it does not reflect Raikage's Physical Speed in Raiton Shroud. We have never seen Bee use Shunshin in V1 or V2 so there is no means to compare and its impossible to say who is faster



> But lets stay on this point for a bit longer, certainly shushin is not enough to dodge Amaterasu on it's own. *Raikage's reaction speed was certainly top notch*, just thought I mention that.


Never said it wasn't



> Really physically and mentally? How did conjure that up? Kisame barely grazed Bee, he was minimally injured him under water, but that was about it.


You do Realize that Using Bijuu Chakra is not a Cake Walk on the Body, That Being Bashed around by some one with Kisame Level strength is not some harmless pillow fight, that being stabbed in the stomach by Kisame isn't like being stabbed by some nerf foam swords, and that drowning under water while all of this is going on is not like some nice relaxing dip in a hot tub. 



> mentally? seriously? Hachibi was affected by some genjutsu from Kisame?


I don't know about you but drowning underwater while being attacked by a manshark would tire me out mentally, but hey that just me. 



> Please do not *make up stuff* to better your argument, Bee was out of chakara, once Samehada gave him some energy he was up and at em.


Are you really going to claim Bee was at 100% after the chakra Samehada gave him? Are you really going to say i'm making shit up when i say Bee was tired out from a long battle with an S-Rank Criminal?

Yes Samehada gave Bee back enough chakra to enter V1 no one is denying that, but unless Samehada gave Bee back all of his chakra/stamina; Then Bee was not at 100% and was indeed exhausted to some degree from his battle with Kisame. 



> Yea B certainly looks mentally and physically injured here.


And once again you are trying to derail this part of the debate because you don't want to accept that Bee kept up with Raiton Shroud Raikage in the Manga Cannon.



> I'm sorry, but there is no accomplishing it a little, you either dodged it or you didn't.


Are you saying that its impossible to evade something for a little while and then be hit by it; Because if you are, i just don't know what to say to that.....



> And what does Sasuke have to do with Bee anyway?


You were saying no one else was capable of evading Amaterasu to which i simply point out Sasuke was capable of evading it for a little while. 



> You are right we have seen very little of it, but yet it is hype by you as the best thing since slice bread.


If You understood how Shunshin works in that the more chakra you can pump into it the faster you can cover a certain amount of distance and if you understood that Bee is not only physically faster in V1 and V2, but also has access to a simply massive amount of chakra to pump into his Shunshin; And if you take into consideration that Bee's Shunshin in base was already the second most impressive Shunshin in the manga, only out done by Raikage, You may also understand why i expect Bee's Shunshin in V1 and V2 to be very high level.



> Bee was stated to be fast, but Raikage proved in terms of speed, he is KING.


Bee Kept up with Raiton Shroud Raikage in V1. Raikage showed a higher level of speed by Using Shunshin. We have yet to see Bee's Shunshin in V1; So there is no way of telling who is faster.



> And Raikage and Sasuke did not fight in close quarters? This is a very weak excuse, on your part. Almost all battles in part 2 have been a close quarters battle.


Yes they did fight in close corders, but lucky for the Raikage he got to show off his speed by dodging Speedy attacks on the part of his opponent such as Amaterasu. Bee did not have these chances to display his speedy. 



> He kept up with him? When did they battle? Are you refering to this?
> 
> 1. Raikage, was not using his powered up shroud. 2. Was he even trying to outpace him? It was a combination attack, of course it has to be in sync. Please stop with the weak evidence incorporated with fan fiction.


Raikages Shroud looked Bigger there to me then it did in R1 and Raikage's powered up shroud is used simply for Shunshin; So like i said Raikage has shown greater speed the Bee using Shunshin.

And no there is no evidence that both synced their speed; They both simply charged the enemy at  their max speed to do double Laraite. 



> Not this argument again, no matter how much chakara was absorbed. Bee still had more tails presents at the end of the exchange, than he had on the lariat used against Sasuke. Again as much as you want to argue this, the panels don't lie.


Yeah he sure did; Never said he didn't. He was in HB8 V1 after the Exchange and he still blew Kisame chest away even through Bijuu empowered Samehada which goes to show HB8 V1 Laraite > HB3 Laraite and thats not even talking about V2 Laraite.


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2010)

> It is not, if it wasn't able to prevent and or minimize the damage


Or it was just up against such a great offensive force that it was incapable of this. 



> Or how little the added tails makes a difference in the attack. Again, it depends on how you want to look at it. Samehada, was not much of a factor defensively, it was not a direct obstacle in front of Bee. Especially examining this panel.
> 
> Does Samehada look in the slightest bit, like it is trying to guard Bee? In fact why would it need to, if could heal him either way.


Giant and very Durable sword in between Kisame and his attack is always going to provide some level of Defense; The Fact that the sword was empowered by a simply massive amount of Bijuu Chakra doesn't hurt things ether. 

Its not that Kisame's Sword is Weak its that Bee's Laraite is that strong. 



> Did Raikage become Kage when Bee was 5? Please read, before posting.


Yes he did or when Bee was even younger then that. We were just told that a Chapter or 2 ago. 



> Proof please. Otherwise do not make such strong accusations.



The Good none Sleepy Fan Trans Calls him the Final Authority and Not Strongest. Plus do i even have to bring up how faulty the side text is in this manga and how much it lies straight to the readers face?



> The majority of the time it is, the exceptions have been proven to be exceptions


Being a Jin and brother of the current Raikage seems like an exceptional case to me.



> How is it upon me, when I have the better correlation? The better probability of being right.


You would have the better probability of being right if you had proof that Sarutobi and Tsunade are the only times this has happened, but you don't.



> You do know what the word exception means right? It is a word that is usually affiliated with not going against the norm. Thus is why I gave you the cigarette example.


You don't understand something; What i stated was: The Kage is Not always the Strongest. I Proved that -

Exhibit A - Tsunade
Exhibit B - Sarutobi(Old)

One Could even Say Exhibit C - Danzo as Naruto by some may be considered stronger then Danzo and one could even Say Exhibit D - Kakashi who was going to be elected instead of Naruto despite being inferior

So I have proved my Point that not always is the Kage the Strongest Ninja in the Village.

You have asserted a Claim as well; Your claim is that Konoha is the only village that this has happened in.

But where the hell is your proof to support this claim? Were is the Proof that shows in the history of the 5 Great Villages there has never been a Kage weaker then some Ninja existing in his/her village.

The Assertion i made has Been proven by me; The assertion you made is Baseless and you have no proof of. 



> Where does it say that? Are you making words up? The manga never stated that A became Kage, when Bee first became the host.


No it didn't. The Manga Said Bee became a Host because A became the Kage. Here i'll spell it out for you

But Bee-san *never once moped or sulked.*
He always walked around with a smile on his face.
And above all, he never once acted ashamed to be a Jinchuuriki.

In fact, he took PRIDE in it.

How could a Jinchuuriki be so proud of what he was, you ask?
That would be...

Page 14:
Motoi: *Because of his brother...the Raikage.*

To ensure the Jinchuuriki would never betray his village
it *has long been tradition for the Kages to choose their spouses, siblings, or someone close as hosts for the tailed beasts.*
The Jinchuuriki acts both *as the Kage's protector and a symbol of his power.*

Bee-san worked to become a model Jinchuuriki *to make his brother Raikage's life easier.*

So you see it says that Bee never moped ever since becoming a Jin because his brother was the Raikage; It says that Bee was selected as a Jin because he was the sibling of the current Raikage. It says that Bee had to work hard ever since becoming a jin to be a symbol for the Raikage.

It is there in black and white that Bee was select as the Hachibi Jin because his brother was the Raikage. 



> Neither did the Raikage at first, his anger cost him an arm. Both of them have quirky traits that, you can use to question they're leadership. In fact almost all the Kage's have quirks in which to question there position. Raikage = anger, Gara = experience etc. etc. But they've got there position. And I'm sure strength played a major role in it.


Okay sure they all have quirky traits, but Raikage clearly has a sense of obligation to his village while Bee on the other hand fakes his death in-order to go on vacation. Obviously Raikage is the one in terms of maturity more qualified for the position.

*Edit*: On a side not i have no clue how you can believe there is no difference in speed in strength between the Tailed forms because what then would be the point of any tailed form other then V1 HB1. Its complete nonsense.


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## Gspot (Jun 4, 2010)

I think B deferring to A is character-fallible, since B looks up to his older brother so much (after all, A loved and protected him throughout his jinchuuriki life). 

Not that Raikage isn't crazy fucking strong, but in feats, I would go with (V2) Bee by a hair.


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## Lightysnake (Jun 4, 2010)

Basically what Gspot said


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