# [SP688] Current Sasuke vs Current Kakashi



## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

This is current Kakashi​
Let's assume the best for Kakashi and say that his PS can phase and also spam Kamui. 

Secondly we will assume that Kakashi's chakra reserves have majorly boosted to levels that can 

sustain PS for long periods. We will also give him every speed feat from Obito par Juubito speed 

feats​


*Location: VOTE
Distance: 100 Meters
Restriction: None
*​


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## Krippy (Aug 6, 2014)

Realistically, Sasuke sits in PS and outlasts him.

With these unrealistic assumptions he soloes the verse.


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## Rocky (Aug 6, 2014)

These assumptions just mean that Kakashi won't collapse after five seconds of Susano'o. 

He still won't last as long as Sasuke,  a natural Uchiha with Rikudo's chakra. Kamui is avoided consistently using Rinnegan Teleportation.


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## Trojan (Aug 6, 2014)

Rocky said:


> These assumptions just mean that Kakashi won't collapse after five seconds of Susano'o.
> 
> He still won't last as long as Sasuke,  a natural Uchiha with Rikudo's chakra. Kamui is avoided *consistently* using Rinnegan Teleportation.



No. 
you do know that Sasuke needs to recharge his ability after each usage, right?


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

Krippy said:


> With these unrealistic assumptions he soloes the verse.





How is this so "unrealistic" ?


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## Ghost (Aug 6, 2014)

Sasuke is faster and has better reactions. He takes this.


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

saikyou said:


> Sasuke is faster and has better reactions. He takes this.




Being faster is not a automatic GG unless your leagues faster, which this is not the case.

Not only that, but here Kakashi has obito's phasing abilities now due to the new MS in the other eye


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## Ghost (Aug 6, 2014)

^ Sasuke's movement speed is pretty much quite above Kakashi's. And with superior reaction and speed Kakashi's phasing is no _that_ dangerous for him.


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## Trojan (Aug 6, 2014)

saikyou said:


> ^ Sasuke's movement speed is pretty much quite above Kakashi's. And with superior reaction and speed Kakashi's phasing is no _that_ dangerous for him.



Kakashi was able to save Sakura before Sasuke can use his S/T jutsu to save her.
Also, Sasuke need a recharge to use his teleportation jutsu.


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

saikyou said:


> ^ Sasuke's movement speed is* pretty much quite* above Kakashi's. And with superior reaction and speed Kakashi's phasing is no _that_ dangerous for him.




Grammar lolz

Sasuke's speed feats are no better than Kakashi's now

distorted space 
distorted space

Naruto said himself that the white hands were moving too fast for even him to save Sakura, yet Kakashi get there.


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## Ghost (Aug 6, 2014)

Interception feat lululul doesn't matter bruh.


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

saikyou said:


> Interception feat lululul doesn't matter bruh.




You can turn a blind eye to the facts if you want to...

And call it what you want, if Naruto says its too fast, then its fuckking fast mate


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## Trojan (Aug 6, 2014)

saikyou said:


> Interception feat lululul doesn't matter bruh.



and you say I'm the one who's doing damage control?  
at least I did not take Kakashi's only feat from him.


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## Ghost (Aug 6, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> You can turn a blind eye to the facts if you want to...
> 
> And call it what you want, if Naruto says its too fast, then its fuckking fast mate



 Sakura managed to avoid it for a while. I'm sorry but that interception doesn't give Kakashi any impressive movement speed feat. Not my fault


and lol hussain.


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

saikyou said:


> Sakura managed to avoid it for a while. I'm sorry but that interception doesn't give Kakashi any impressive movement speed feat. Not my fault
> 
> 
> and lol hussain.




No your being ignorant. 

Sakura did not avoid it for a while ? She made a leap to escape and then it was upon her. 

*And why are you still ignoring Naruto's statement that it was too fast ? *


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

saikyou said:


> Sakura managed to avoid it for a while. I'm sorry but that interception doesn't give Kakashi any impressive movement speed feat. Not my fault
> 
> 
> and lol hussain.




Or what about the fact that Sasuke couldnt get out of the way on his own here ?

Link removed

You simply won't accept Kakashi's speed feat in the chapter lol I find your denial humorous


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## Ghost (Aug 6, 2014)

Look up what interception feat means.


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

saikyou said:


> Look up what interception feat means.




Answer a damn question, or can you ? I know what interception means btw and speed has to be involved.

WHY DID NARUTO SAY IT WAS "TOO FAST" ?

AND WHY DID SASUKE HAVE TO PUSHED OUT OF THE WAY ?


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## Rocky (Aug 6, 2014)

Kakashi was closer, lol.


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## Ghost (Aug 6, 2014)

Simple: Kakashi was closer to Sakura than Naruto and Sasuke were. Because no way in hell       Kakashi is faster than Naruto.


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Kakashi was closer, lol.




Proof of this plz ?


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## Ghost (Aug 6, 2014)

Which is more likely: Kakashi being closer to Sakura or him being faster than Naruto?


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## Jagger (Aug 6, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Proof of this plz ?


The fact both Naruto and Sasuke approached Kaguya, the character that was far from Team 7 a couple of chapters before. Kakashi, on the other hand, was close to Sakura because he couldn't attack Kaguya since he would have gotten oblirated.

Then, after his last meeting with Obito, he saved Sakura from getting crushed. Common sense.


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## ZE (Aug 6, 2014)

Kamui+Perfect Susanoo
Dude, c'mon.


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

saikyou said:


> Which is more likely: Kakashi being closer to Sakura or him being faster than Naruto?



I want panel proof ?


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Kakashi was closer, lol.




This is the last time we seen Kakashi's position on the battlefield...it was right next to Naruto here...Sakura is no where around.

avoid susanoo slash


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## Jagger (Aug 6, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> This is the last time we seen Kakashi's position on the battlefield...it was right next to Naruto here...Sakura is no where around.
> 
> avoid susanoo slash


And, if you finish that chapter, you'll realize Naruto left Sakura behind to rip off Kaguya's arm.


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

Jagger said:


> And, if you finish that chapter, you'll realize Naruto left Sakura behind to rip off Kaguya's arm.




Which I did...Sakura was no where around either of them ?

But right now you are trying to convince me that Sasuke is faster than Kakashi, this shows that not even sasuke could get out of the way due to his lack of speed...

avoid susanoo slash

Naruto had to push him out of the way...It was that fast. So to even intercept Sakura is a huge feat for Kakashi. Making Kakashi at least on Sasuke's speed level...

Sasuke can't beat kakashi here


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## αce (Aug 6, 2014)

Well if Obito's reaction feats are given to Kakashi then this becomes a debate I suppose.  Although I don't know if Obito's reaction feats are better than Madara's, who reacted to a Minato coming out of thin air and then completely styled on him. A Madara, who before acquiring the Juubi's abilities, reacted to Tobirama coming out of nowhere as well. Sasuke still managed to dance around Madara.

Kakashi doesn't seem like the sort to use perfect susano-o off the bat. And forgive me if I'm not familiar with Obito and Kakashi's reaction feats, but I'm not remembering anything of theirs being on the same level as reacting to a point blank FTG in two different scenario's. So correct me if I'm wrong. But if Kakashi's reaction feats are not in the same ball park as Madara's, he just dies off the bat.


If Kakashi survives the initial bisection than maybe he can pull it off.


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## Trojan (Aug 6, 2014)

Madara did not know anything about Sasuke's jutsu though while he knew everything about FTG. 

I don't remember Kakashi's "great" reacting feats though.


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## Rocky (Aug 6, 2014)

Kakashi can't do anything but get outlasted, unless he can literally warp away Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o.


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## Jagger (Aug 6, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Which I did...Sakura was no where around either of them ?
> 
> But right now you are trying to convince me that Sasuke is faster than Kakashi, this shows that not even sasuke could get out of the way due to his lack of speed...
> 
> ...


What are you even talking about? I'm not trying to make you understand that Sasuke is faster than Kakashi, but that Kakashi was closer to Sakura than either Sasuke or Naruto were, therebefore, making it easier for the Copy Cat Ninja to save the poor pink-haired girl. 

That's what my argument is about and saying Sasuke's reactions are slower than Kakashi's because the latter saved her despite being closer to her than Sasuke was, is not exactly the best argument


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Kakashi can't do anything but get outlasted, unless he can literally warp away Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o.




Which is plausible ....

And we don't know about Kakashi's chakra reserves yet, but OP says were assuming he had a massive boost in chakra..so no outlasting happening here.

Kakashi has more weapons than sasuke now...


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

Jagger said:


> That's what my argument is about and saying Sasuke's reactions are slower than Kakashi's because the latter saved her despite being closer to her than Sasuke was, is not exactly the best argument





I don't see anyone showing panel proof that Sakura was closer for one.

And for 2, Sasuke was pushed out of the way of something at least Sakura was able to attempt and make a few steps to get away from


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## αce (Aug 6, 2014)

> Madara did not know anything about Sasuke's jutsu though while he knew everything about FTG.
> 
> I don't remember Kakashi's "great" reacting feats though




That's true but he didn't see Tobirama coming. He literally just reacted the moment he showed up. He also didn't see Minato coming. The kunai went through a blind spot created by Gaara's sand. The kunai landed and the moment Madara saw it, Minato showed up.

He still took them both out with no difficulty and then got completely out maneuvered by Sasuke.





If Sasuke manages to catch Kakashi with the same move he tried to pull on Kaguya, he'd have to have reactions superior to Madara to phase through it. I'm going to go ahead and say he just gets cut in half.


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## Rocky (Aug 6, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> And we don't know about Kakashi's chakra reserves yet, but OP says were assuming he had a massive boost in chakra..so no outlasting happening here.



Kakashi's "massive boost" in chakra isn't anywhere near Sasuke's Rikudō powered reserves, and Kakashi isn't an Uchiha, so yeah..

Kakashi gets outlasted. 

Like seriously, lol @ MS Kakashi beating Fucking EMS-Rinnegan God Sasuke.


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## Jagger (Aug 6, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> I don't see anyone showing panel proof that Sakura was closer for one.
> 
> And for 2, Sasuke was pushed out of the way of something at least Sakura was able to attempt and make a few steps to get away from


Re-read the lastest two chapters. Kakashi didn't even move after Obito was hit by Kaguya's bone(r) while Sasuke teleported himself to where Kaguya is and Naruto blitzed her and riped off her arm.

if those two got closer to Kaguya and Kakashi didn't move...Well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out he was closer to her.

And your second argument is nothing but a low-tier bait since it does nothing but bash Sasuke's actions. Not to mention Sakura was eventually going to get hit, though.


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Kakashi's "massive boost" in chakra isn't anywhere near Sasuke's Rikudō powered reserves, and Kakashi isn't an Uchiha, so yeah..
> 
> Kakashi gets outlasted.
> 
> Like seriously, lol @ MS Kakashi beating Fucking EMS-Rinnegan God Sasuke.




"God" sasuke has been doing NOTHING to Kaguya while Naruto has done everything..

So much for being a "God" huh ? lmao smh 

*Spamming Kamui/PS/Phasing Techs/Speed near sasukes = Kakashi wins High-diff​*


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

Jagger said:


> And your second argument is nothing but a* low-tier bait* since it does nothing but bash Sasuke's actions. Not to mention Sakura was eventually going to get hit, though.






*BUT !?! 

Its not a bait...its panel facts ?*​


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## αce (Aug 6, 2014)

> "God" sasuke has been doing NOTHING to Kaguya while Naruto has done everything..
> 
> So much for being a "God" huh ? lmao smh



And yet Naruto isn't going to win without Sasuke. Also I don't see how this counters his argument. Sasuke having low chakra reserves was never really ever the case except maybe in early part 2. We now have confirmation that he has Indra's chakra, the rikudou's abilities and is naturally an Uchiha - in what way is Kakashi going to outlast him?

I still think Sasuke ends this within the first 30 seconds so I really couldn't care less about the "who lasts longer" argument.


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## Rocky (Aug 6, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> "God" sasuke has been doing NOTHING to Kaguya while Naruto has done everything.



Kaguya would bend Kakashi over and shove it in. 



> Spamming Kamui/Phasing Techs



This is the same thing.

We don't know his proficiency in phasing, and I don't see what phasing is supposed to do against Sasuke's Susano'o anyway.



> Speed near sasukes


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

αce said:


> And yet Naruto isn't going to win without Sasuke. Also I don't see how this counters his argument. Sasuke having low chakra reserves was never really ever the case except maybe in early part 2. We now have confirmation that he has Indra's chakra, the rikudou's abilities and is naturally an Uchiha - in what way is Kakashi going to outlast him?
> 
> I still think Sasuke ends this within the first 30 seconds so I really *couldn't care less* about the "who lasts longer" argument.






Nobody asked what you cared about.

Secondly, I dont think it will come down to stamina anyways. I believe Kakashi while spamming kamui, will actually make a direct hit and GG the whole damn thing.


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Kaguya would bend Kakashi over and shove it in.




Never said she would ? wtf ? smh

But its not like Sasuke's doing much either ?




Rocky said:


> We don't know his proficiency in phasing, and I don't see what phasing is supposed to do against Sasuke's Susano'o anyway




We have nothing else to go on besides what we've already seen it do....which is phase through shit ?????? duh


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## Rocky (Aug 6, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Never said she would ? wtf ? smh
> 
> But its not like Sasuke's doing much either ?



Why are you bringing up Kaguya then?



> We have nothing else to go on besides what we've already seen it do....which is phase through shit ?????? duh



We have never seen Kakashi phase though anything.

It's rather dumb to believe that MS Kakashi is somehow stronger than Rinnegan Sasuke.

Like really, _really_ dumb.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 6, 2014)

Sasuke still wins. Kakashi's probably around EMS Madara's level, which is far below what Sasuke is now. Sasuke was able to sever Kaguya's arm (though it took much more effort than Naruto) and could survive the pummeling she gave him. His Rinnegan Shifting would be a counter to Kamui too since.


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## αce (Aug 6, 2014)

> Nobody asked what you cared about.


You still dodged the point. 



> Secondly, *I dont think it will come down to stamina anyways*. I believe  Kakashi while spamming kamui, will actually make a direct hit and GG the  whole damn thing.


Yeah it won't. Because Sasuke is just going to cut his head off in the first encounter and Kakashi has no way of reacting to it.


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

αce said:


> Yeah it won't. Because Sasuke is just going to cut his head off in the first encounter and *Kakashi has no way of reacting to it*.





Yes because Kakashi is now still leauges slower than sasuke ? Yea No.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 6, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Yes because Kakashi is now still leauges slower than sasuke ? Yea No.


Given Kakashi was blitzed by Juubi Jin Madara...and Sasuke blitzed Juubi Jin Madara easily, yeah.


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## αce (Aug 6, 2014)

> Yes because Kakashi is now still leauges slower than sasuke ? Yea No.



Unless Kakashi's reactions are significantly superior to Madara's initial Juubi Jin stage, then yes, he is leagues slower and gets killed in one go. I need not remind you that this is the same Madara who casually reacted to Minato coming out of nowhere and a stronger version of the Madara who casually reacted to Tobirama coming out of nowhere, while blind. These characters don't use movement speed. They use instantaneous teleportation to close the gap and then use their speed to deal the rest of the damage. Both of these characters are faster than Kakashi. Madara was also reacting to 7th gate gai, who I'm fairly sure is faster than Kakashi.


Kakashi's reactions are not superior to Madara's or even in the same ball park. Madara didn't even know what hit him when Sasuke styled all over him. You do the math. Kakashi dies in 10 seconds.


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

αce said:


> Sasuke is far weaker than kakashi now...no way sasuke wins





I agree...


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## Destiny Monarch (Aug 6, 2014)

Sasuke wins even with these unreasonable assumptions. Sasuke's PS >>>> Kakashi's PS. Kakashis PS is also the shortest PS to date BTW.


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Sasuke wins even with these unreasonable assumptions. Sasuke's PS >>>> Kakashi's PS. Kakashis PS is also the shortest PS to date BTW.





We know nothing of Kakashi's PS yet....random assertion would be otherwise.

And these are not unreasonable assumptions


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## Turrin (Aug 6, 2014)

People are being way to stock into view points, when we know very little about the nature of the power up Kakashi received. Kakashi didn't just get Obito's eyes, otherwise he wouldn't be capable of P-Susano'o. If Obito's power boost can suddenly allow for P-Susano'o I really see little reason as to why it could not have also granted Kakashi a massive speed boost or simply being able to Kamui phase at double the speed (2-eyes) may be enough for Kakashi to react to survive long enough to pull out P-Susano'o.

From there it all depends on what weapons Kakashi's P-Susano'o has. If it just has a physical sword, than Kakashi will loose, but if it has some dimension warping powers that may give Kakashi an edge to win.

We just know so little about Kakashi's new powers that it's completely pointless to claim someone is wrong.

And I'd advise against the assumption that it will be insignificant next to Sasuke's powers as otherwise there was no point to the whole Kakashi being Rokudaime speech or Kakashi being useful against Kaguya.


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## Ruse (Aug 6, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> *We know nothing of Kakashi's PS yet*....random assertion would be otherwise.
> 
> And these are not unreasonable assumptions



Then why make this thread


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 6, 2014)

All we can do is scale Kakashi's Perfect Susano'o to Madara's. Thus he'll have Small Country level DC and Country level durability with it. Sasuke's now? Continent level DC and Continent level Durability. Its not even a contest.


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

Heavenly Demon said:


> Then why make this thread





Because I wanted to assume something I believe will be shown in the chapters to come and compare them to sasuke...


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> All we can do is scale Kakashi's Perfect Susano'o to Madara's. Thus he'll have Small Country level DC and Country level durability with it. Sasuke's now? Continent level DC and Continent level Durability. Its not even a contest.





Why is Madara even in the topic ?


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## Psp123789 (Aug 6, 2014)

Logically Duel MS kakashi should be far below Someone with rinnegan and the EMS. By feats Sasuke still destroys since kakashi hasn't done anything. The only dude we can scale him to right now is probably EMS madara which is still fodder to Sasuke.


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## Lurko (Aug 6, 2014)

Considering how fast Kakashi's Susano was this chapter and both Kamui's, I don't see Sasuke winning as of now.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 6, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Why is Madara even in the topic ?


Never heard of the term Powerscaling?


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Never heard of the term Powerscaling?



Why power scale to madara though ? When kakashi has different perks like kamui ???


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 6, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Why power scale to madara though ? When kakashi has different perks like kamui ???


Since Madara represents non-Hagoromo empowered Perfect Susano'o.


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## Krippy (Aug 6, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> How is this so "unrealistic" ?



He's not phasing a fucking megazord nor is he spamming kamui with it active. How he can even utilize it in his state is an asspull to put it simply.

He used Kamui ~10 times before running low on chakra/losing his eyesight.

What am I even talking about? He doesn't need Susano'o to shift his blade into Kakashi's brain, seeing how he's caught both Madara and Kaguya by surprise. This is rape.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Aug 6, 2014)

Kakashi isn't using kamui to any extent inside perfect susano just like sasuke can't use his space swapping ability while he is inside his perfect susano.

Sasuke would win with moderate difficulty.


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## Kaiser (Aug 6, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> Kakashi isn't using kamui to any extent inside perfect susano *just like sasuke can't use his space swapping ability while he is inside his perfect susano*.
> 
> Sasuke would win with moderate difficulty.


Who said he can't? If he showed the capacity to use Amaterasu while Susanoo is active, i don't see why Kakashi/Sasuke couldn't use their space-time techniques


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## Trojan (Aug 6, 2014)

Kakashi may or may not use his Kamui with PS, but even if he is able to do so, then I really doubt he can use it for long time... Using them at the same time, should drain him in seconds, unless he received a huge amount of chakra
from obito....


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## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Kakashi may or may not use his Kamui with PS, but even if he is able to do so, then I really doubt he can use it for long time... Using them at the same time, should drain him in seconds, unless he received a huge amount of chakra
> from obito....





He must have gained tremendous amounts of extra chakra or else he wouldnt even be able to open PS


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## Jagger (Aug 6, 2014)

Indeed he needs big amounts of chakra to use it in the first place.

However, maintaining the technique is another matter. Itachi's chakra reserves are big enough to use Susano'O for a lapse of time, however, it isn't as large as people like Sasuke or Madara.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 7, 2014)

Rocky said:


> These assumptions just mean that Kakashi won't collapse after five seconds of Susano'o.
> 
> He still won't last as long as Sasuke,  a natural Uchiha with Rikudo's chakra. Kamui is avoided consistently using Rinnegan Teleportation.



Sasuke can't spam his kawarimi.  It breaks after an unknown plot related amount of uses, and needs and unknown plot related period of time to refresh.  

Kakashi can spam his kamui.

I think it's more likely Kakashi warps into Sasuke's PS and kills him that way.  Maybe he does a Kamui warping Perfect Susano clone feint.  Kakashi loves clone feints.

Raiton PS bunshin, dual wielding PS raikiri swords.


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## Lurko (Aug 7, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Sasuke can't spam his kawarimi.  It breaks after an unknown plot related amount of uses, and needs and unknown plot related period of time to refresh.
> 
> Kakashi can spam his kamui.
> 
> ...



Umm.... Kakashi hasn't shown all of that.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 7, 2014)

I said maybe.


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## Narutossss (Aug 7, 2014)

perfect susanoo and kamui, if kakashi can last 5 minutes in that, he might have a chance against sasuke.


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## Edo Madara (Aug 7, 2014)

Kakashi use PS to walking the distance then he go intangible and get closer to sasuke and snipes his head with Kamui.


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## Bkprince33 (Aug 7, 2014)

Imo naruto and sasuke are at the height of power, using common sense why would the author randomly make kakashi stronger then sasuke? it just literally makes no sense and goes completely against what kishi has been trying to portray

really that not hard if we paraphrase giving kakashi a stamina boost won't change that


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## Hachibi (Aug 7, 2014)

If they begin without PS, Kakashi die by blitzing thank to the Rinnegan Teleport, which gonna be used earlier than Kamui thank to the mindset being IC
If they begin with PS,Sasuke's PS bend over Kakashi's since a Rikudo-powered PS>>>>>Non-Rikudo-Powered PS, then if Kakashi manage to phase tho that, his only chance is too warp the entire Perfect Susano, which I doubt he can do


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## Edo Madara (Aug 8, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> then if Kakashi manage to phase tho that, his only chance is too warp the entire Perfect Susano, which I doubt he can do



Why? he just need to warp Sasuke. intangible Kakashi can 'levitating' in material places as shown by Obito.


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## Hachibi (Aug 8, 2014)

Edo Madara said:


> Why? he just need to warp Sasuke. intangible Kakashi can 'levitating' in material places as shown by Obito.



I doubt Kakashi can warp while being Intangible and if he is about to kamui Sasuke either interrupt it by forcing Kakashi to intang or just teleport out of the way


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## JuicyG (Aug 8, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> I doubt Kakashi can warp while being Intangible and if he is about to kamui Sasuke either interrupt it by forcing Kakashi to intang or just teleport out of the way





Doubts don't make a debate. Your doubt is my certainty


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## Hachibi (Aug 8, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Doubts don't make a debate. Your doubt is my certainty



There's no proof that Kakashi can use both intangibility and teleportation/warp (which aren't the same but similar and which is the point of Kamui) at the same time


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## Edo Madara (Aug 8, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> I doubt Kakashi can warp while being Intangible and if he is about to kamui Sasuke either interrupt it by forcing Kakashi to intang or just teleport out of the way



Kamui is fast and sasuke need something to swap


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## JuicyG (Aug 8, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> There's no proof that Kakashi can use both intangibility and teleportation/warp (which aren't the same but similar and which is the point of Kamui) at the same time




Of course theres not...the next chapter will show all that.

Kakashi's power up was to enable him to be useful in assisting the defeat of Kaguya. And as bad of a writer Kishi is, he will not make Kakashi a complete fodder again. 

Therefore it is justified to believe that Kakashi's abilities include:


Kakashi gets chakra boost
Kakashi can use kamui while in PS
Kakashi can become intangible in PS
Kakashi's PS can fly


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## Hachibi (Aug 8, 2014)

Edo Madara said:


> Kamui is fast and sasuke need something to swap



Kamui can still be sensed and Sasuke has enough reflex to dodge it.
Beside, Sasuke can swap place with Kakashi himself


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 8, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Of course theres not...the next chapter will show all that.
> 
> Kakashi's power up was to enable him to be useful in assisting the defeat of Kaguya. And as bad of a writer Kishi is, he will not make Kakashi a complete fodder again.
> 
> ...




-He already has that if he can use PS
-He can or can not  so we're both speculating on this point
-Same as above and beside, I don't see Intang useful if he has another defense up (PS)
-I never said it couldn't


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 8, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> -He already has that if he can use PS
> -He can or can not  so we're both speculating on this point
> -Same as above and beside, I don't see Intang useful if he has another defense up (PS)
> -I never said it couldn't





But if that all comes to past...I am very inclined to say he can at least match Sasuke. And going on what Sasuke has shown it doesnt seem any more impressive than this Kakashi that we are discussing at the moment. Becoming intangible while in PS makes PS vs PS very difficult for Sasuke, obvious reasons.


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 8, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> But if that all comes to past...I am very inclined to say he can at least match Sasuke. And going on what Sasuke has shown it doesnt seem any more impressive than this Kakashi that we are discussing at the moment. Becoming intangible while in PS makes PS vs PS very difficult for Sasuke, obvious reasons.



Current Kakashi can't match Current Sasuke since he lack the reflex to react to Sasuke's teleport (which can be actived by throwing a sword at or near Kakashi) also, i doubt that Obito's power-up should be equal to RS, _especially_ if he isn't Juubito anymore and beside, Sasuke's PS should be above Kakashi's by a large margin and then it's a cat and mouse game


----------



## Jagger (Aug 8, 2014)

Edo Madara said:


> Kamui is fast and sasuke need something to swap


Only if he wants to step outside of his technique's range. He didn't need an object to teleport himself to where Kaguya was.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 8, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Current Kakashi can't match Current Sasuke since he lack the reflex to react to Sasuke's teleport (which can be actived by throwing a sword at or near Kakashi) also, i doubt that Obito's power-up should be equal to RS, _especially_ if he isn't Juubito anymore and beside, Sasuke's PS should be above Kakashi's by a large margin and then it's a cat and mouse game





Your just going on stated opinions and what you "think" is right. I am actually going on circumstantial evidence. Sasuke couldnt react to the White hands moving last chapter but we seen kakashi make a move on it...so whose to say Sasuke's reaction speed is not slower than Kakashi's now ?


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 8, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Your just going on stated opinions and what you "think" is right. I am actually going on circumstantial evidence. Sasuke couldnt react to the White hands moving last chapter but we seen kakashi make a move on it...so whose to say Sasuke's reaction speed is not slower than Kakashi's now ?



Kakashi outreacting Sasuke is unlikely since he got biltzed by Juudara here:



While Sasuke bitlzed the same Juudara here:


*Spoiler*: __ 



http://i.imgur.com/dTS4ezZ.jpg




So either Kakashi was closer to Sakura than both Naruto or Sasuke or it's a outlier


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 8, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Kakashi outreacting Sasuke is unlikely since he got biltzed by Juudara here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





*FUCK JUUBIDARA*​
Let's talk about right now concerning the new power up and what all it must have included...

We seen Naruto push Sasuke out of the way because it was too fast....By circumstantial evidence from the LATEST chapter, we can confidently conclude that Sasuke and Kakashi are at least near equals in reaction speed.

I will continue to think this way unless proven other wise in the future.


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 8, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> *FUCK JUUBIDARA*​
> Let's talk about right now concerning the new power up and what all it must have included...
> 
> We seen Naruto push Sasuke out of the way because it was too fast....By circumstantial evidence from the LATEST chapter, we can confidently conclude that Sasuke and Kakashi are at least near equals in reaction speed.
> ...



Sasuke reacting to Kaguya's portal (tho couldn't dodge it physically)



Sasuke trading hit with Kaguya:



Beside, you shouldn't give random stat to Kakashi just because he got a power-up


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 8, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Sasuke reacting to Kaguya's portal (tho couldn't dodge it physically)
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Were going on what we have seen thus far. And that is a few things 


Interceping Sakura from an entity that Sasuke couldn't escape from
Kakashi intercepting Sakura when Naruto said it was too fast to save her ( Naruto > 8th Gate Gai speed)
Kakashi's PS is very similar to Sasukes
Sasuke getting owned by Kaguya in all aspects


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 8, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Were going on what we have seen thus far. And that is a few things
> 
> 
> Interceping Sakura from an entity that Sasuke couldn't escape from
> ...



So, Kakashi's speed > Naruto and Sasuke's? 

Beside, it's not like 2 MS Obito (which should a better stamina-wise version of Current Kakashi) admitted that they needed Sasuke to win


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## αce (Aug 8, 2014)

So basically, Naruto and Sasuke are slower than Kakashi. Makes sense.


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## αce (Aug 8, 2014)

This entire argument is pointless. Let me just sum this up in a way that anyone can understand, because apparently my past posts weren't clear enough


>Madara's reactions are to the point where point blank FTG's from two of the best space/time users are pointless against him. he was also reacting to 7th gate Gai, who is clearly faster than kakashi

>Sasuke has an ability that is essentially an FTG without seals that has no restriction on where he wants to go

>Madara's reactions, despite being top tier, were nothing to Sasuke and he didn't even know what hit him when Sasuke decided to style all over him


_*heres the important one_

>Kakashi's reactions are not as good as Madara's or even in the same ball park


* Conclusion?*

>Sasuke cuts Kakashi's head off in the first 30 seconds of the match












Unless of course Kakashi starts off in PS, but that's completely out of character. Sasuke wanting to speed blitz and cut someone's face off is completely within what his character would do and is something he's resorted to on since part two started.


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## Hachibi (Aug 8, 2014)

αce said:


> This entire argument is pointless. Let me just sum this up in a way that anyone can understand, because apparently my past posts weren't clear enough
> 
> 
> >Madara's reactions are to the point where point blank FTG's from two of the best space/time users are pointless against him
> ...



He's actually saying that since Kakashi got a power-up, his reflex are nearly the same as Sasuke ck

Tho I agree with your post


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## Hachibi (Aug 8, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Naruto is faster than Sasuke u dumb cunts



That name calling mean you lose/ are losing this argument beside, Sasuke is faster his than Naruto when he is using his teleport, not before nor after


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## Csdabest (Aug 8, 2014)

Amaterasu Spam. Flame Arrows at Kakashi. Sasuke is just asuperior MS user not to mention he has more technques thank kakashi and his own Faster S/T.

It just went from Sasuke Beating Kakakashi with low diff to Mid-high diff


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## αce (Aug 8, 2014)

It's still low difficulty if Kakashi doesn't start in perfect susano-o.


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## Blu-ray (Aug 8, 2014)

So Sasuke won't just shift Kakashi into his Chidori before Kakashi can even react? PS isn't really an issue when it comes to that shifting, and phasing still requires conscious effort and reaction. Even sniping with Kamui won't happen when Sasuke's speed alone means Kakashi should not be able to follow him. If it's a PS vs PS bout, then Sasuke should just chop Kakashi's into tiny pieces. Or have we really fallen so low that a basic Mangekyo can give this Sasuke a run for his money?

Who cares anymore. Kakashi could move under gravity while Naruto and Sasuke couldn't. I wouldn't be surprised if Kakashi's can trounce Kaguya next chapter.


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## Edo Madara (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Kamui can still be sensed and Sasuke has enough reflex to dodge it.
> *Beside, Sasuke can swap place with Kakashi himself*



You funny guy, you realize they will just end up in the same situation right?


----------



## Santoryu (Aug 9, 2014)

Kakashi destroys his obstinate student. 

His fluid mastery of the basic ninja-arts coupled with his superior Dojutsu abilities grants him victory.


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## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> That name calling mean you lose/ are losing this argument beside, Sasuke is faster his than Naruto when he is using his teleport, not before nor after





Dumb Cunts* needed to be said....

If sasuke is faster than Naruto at any point at all, then that means he is faster than everyone in the series. Not even sasuke's teleportation could get him an opening against Kaguya, but Naruto straight blitzed the hoe and cut off an arm...

Naruto>Sasuke=>Kakashi

Speed in not so much of a factor as to grant Sauce the GG


----------



## Edo Madara (Aug 9, 2014)

It's like Minato vs Obito again

But with his jutsu cooldown, it's only matter of time before sasuke get kamui'ed


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## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

Edo Madara said:


> You funny guy, you realize they will just end up in the same situation right?



Nope, if he swap with Kakashi himself, he will Kamui something else instead of Sasuke and beside, since when does Kakashi has the reflex to react to sasuke's teleport?


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Dumb Cunts* needed to be said....
> 
> If sasuke is faster than Naruto at any point at all, then that means he is faster than everyone in the series. Not even sasuke's teleportation could get him an opening against Kaguya, but Naruto straight blitzed the hoe and cut off an arm...
> 
> ...



Yeah, speed IS the decisif factor, it's like Minato vs Obito all over again

reread my post, I said Sasuke is faster than Naruto *when* he teleport not before nor after,
so after Sauce finished his teleport, it was his own speed that failed to tag Kaguya
unless you believe that Naruto is faster than instantanous


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## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Yeah, speed IS the decisif factor, it's like Minato vs Obito all over again
> 
> reread my post, I said Sasuke is faster than Naruto *when* he teleport not before nor after,
> so after Sauce finished his teleport, it was his own speed that failed to tag Kaguya
> unless you believe that Naruto is faster than instantanous




Explain this then...

Why was Kaguya able to block sasukes attack after he teleported to her, yet was unable to do so on a Naruto blitz ?


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## Rocky (Aug 9, 2014)

Santoryu said:


> Kakashi destroys his obstinate student.
> 
> His fluid mastery of the basic ninja-arts coupled with his superior Dojutsu abilities grants him victory.



Superior Dojutsu....? 

Kakashi has the MS. That's like saying CS2 is superior to Current Naruto's Super Sage Mode.


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Explain this then...
> 
> Why was Kaguya able to block sasukes attack after he teleported to her, yet was unable to do so on a Naruto blitz ?



This:

*Spoiler*: __ 








Is the same scenario as the Sasuke x Kaguya scenario : while Minato was >>>>>>>Juudara in speed when he's using Hiraishin (Sasuke's teleport is basically Hiraishin without seal but a limit range) when Hiraishin ended, SM Minato needed to rely on his own physical speed (which is mile slower than Juudara), so he got his arm cut
Beside, when didnI said that Sasuke is *physically* faster than Naruto


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## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> This:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...





Naruto> Sasuke in speed regardless of ur opinions

And I wish u would stop using examples of Juubidara....Kaguya is who were talking about, so focus on her and use examples with her...

Besides from what we've seen. Sasuke has  a cooldown on his teleportation...This alone will not end Kakashi considering double Kamui


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## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Naruto> Sasuke in speed regardless of ur opinions
> 
> And I wish u would stop using examples of Juubidara....Kaguya is who were talking about, so focus on her and use examples with her...
> 
> Besides from what we've seen. Sasuke has  a cooldown on his teleportation...This alone will not end Kakashi considering double Kamui



Yeah, and ignoring my point like always  but since you think that Naruto is faster than instantanous...

I have the right to use Juudara as a example , you aren't my father  and I didn't used Juudara directly as a example but Minato

It's not because it has a cooldown that it will not end Kakashi, since Kakashi doesn't have the reflex to react to Sasuke's teleport until proven otherwise


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## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Yeah, and ignoring my point like always  but since you think that Naruto is faster than instantanous...
> 
> I have the right to use Juudara as a example , you aren't my father  and I didn't used Juudara directly as a example but Minato
> 
> It's not because it has a cooldown that it will not end Kakashi, since K*akashi doesn't have the reflex to react to Sasuke's teleport until proven otherwise *





Kakashi reacted to the hands whereas sasuke couldnt ? Proven.


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## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Kakashi reacted to the hands whereas sasuke couldnt ? Proven.



Sasuke reacted to it as show here:


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## Jagger (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> *FUCK JUUBIDARA*​


Either you lack patience or you arent' accustomed to people disagreeing with your opinion.

Either way, acting like that only gives the upperhand to your opponent.


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Either you lack patience or you arent' accustomed to people disagreeing with your opinion.
> 
> Either way, acting like that only gives the upperhand to your opponent.



I already have it


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## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Sasuke reacted to it as show here:



Sasuke had to be pushed outta the way by naruto ( NICE TRY ) 

1


Jagger said:


> Either you lack patience or you arent' accustomed to people disagreeing with your opinion.
> 
> Either way, acting like that only gives the upperhand to your opponent.




U think i care what u think...really ? hahahaha 

And my "opponent" ? lol Im not in war over here...just passing time child


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Sasuke had to be pushed outta the way by naruto ( NICE TRY )
> 
> 1



I can play that game too you know 

And beside, interception feat are taken with a grain of salt or else you get shit like Suigetsu being V1 Ei level in speed:


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## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> I can play that game too you know
> 
> And beside, interception feat are taken with a grain of salt or else you get shit like Suigetsu being V1 Ei level in speed:




This^^^ proved nothing ? 

Do better, or my point has been made


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## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> This^^^ proved nothing ?
> 
> Do better, or my point has been made



Tell me if Kakashi can react to this then :


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## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Tell me if Kakashi can react to this then :





From last chapter alone, I have enough reason to believe Kakashi can now react to whatever sasuke can. Simple as that..


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> From last chapter alone, I have enough reason to believe Kakashi can now react to whatever sasuke can. Simple as that..



It's common sense to not think that way, but since you ignore what I say I'm losing my time


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## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> It's common sense to not think that way, but since you ignore what I say I'm losing my time




Ur just a sasuke fan boy wanking random opinions that have zero meaning to this debate...

Sasuke and Kakashi are clearly equals or near equals now until sasuke shows more.


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Ur just a sasuke fan boy wanking random opinions that have zero meaning to this debate...
> 
> Sasuke and Kakashi are clearly equals or near equals now until sasuke shows more.



>Calling people name
>Expect to be taken seriously

If you aren't realised until now, you 1) dodged some of my point 2) have a sasuke set 3)wanked Kakashi


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> This is current Kakashi​
> Let's assume the best for Kakashi and say that his PS can phase and also spam Kamui.
> 
> Secondly we will assume that Kakashi's chakra reserves have majorly boosted to levels that can
> ...



Kakashi should win, unless Sasuke uses in Rinnegan in well timed opportunities in the battle.

Kakashi has to rely on strategy as his Susanoo isn't overpowering a Senjutsu powered Susanoo. 



Rocky said:


> Kamui is avoided consistently using Rinnegan Teleportation.



If, and only if, you can tell me Sasuke's recharge time doesn't interfere with this strategy.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> >Calling people name
> >Expect to be taken seriously
> 
> If you aren't realised until now, you 1) dodged some of my point 2) have a sasuke set 3)wanked Kakashi





This is irrelevant .... are u even debating sasuke vs kakashi anymore ?


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> This is irrelevant .... are u even debating sasuke vs kakashi anymore ?



Implying you do it too
I give up with this debate, it gave me a headache


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Implying you do it too
> I give up with this debate, it gave me a headache





Finally !!! Happy day happy day...

U finally acknowledge that I made stronger points and that you have nothing further to prove your point...at least ur humble in ur defeat !


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Finally !!! Happy day happy day...
> 
> U finally acknowledge that I made stronger points and that you have nothing further to prove your point...at least ur humble in ur defeat !



Whatever help you sleep at night...


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Whatever hel you sleep at night...




A typically losers reply..I understand though 

Kakashi > Sasuke (From what has been shown) high diff


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> A typically losers reply..I understand though
> 
> Kakashi > Sasuke (From what has been shown) high diff





I didn't bet my life on it so I don't care


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> I didn't bet my life on it so I don't care




Dont get mad now child...I know losing hurts but it'll pass..


Kakashi has too much for sasuke 

Kamui GG


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Dont get mad now child...I know losing hurts but it'll pass..
> 
> 
> Kakashi has too much for sasuke
> ...



I'm not mad but you sound rustled


----------



## Edo Madara (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Nope, if he swap with Kakashi himself, he will Kamui something else instead of Sasuke and beside, since when does Kakashi has the reflex to react to sasuke's teleport?



No need to react, Kakashi can just intangible.


----------



## Jagger (Aug 9, 2014)

>Gets in a debate and starts insulting others because they disagree with him.
>I don't care what you think!!


----------



## Jagger (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Dont get mad now child...I know losing hurts but it'll pass..
> 
> 
> Kakashi has too much for sasuke
> ...


Please, enlighten me how Kakashi is "too much" for Sasuke?


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

Edo Madara said:


> No need to react, Kakashi can just intangible.



Seriously, this match is 50/50 and is Minato vs Obito all over again
Kakashi going intangible is related to his reaction tho
It depend on how well Rinnegan's Teleport and/or Kamui are utilized


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

Jagger said:


> >Gets in a debate and starts insulting others because they disagree with him.
> >I don't care what you think!!





Jagger said:


> Please, enlighten me how Kakashi is "too much" for Sasuke?



Give up, she ignore all of your point and she's biased


----------



## Rain (Aug 9, 2014)

Sasuke speedblitzes with his speedblitzer no jutsu.


----------



## Bonly (Aug 9, 2014)

I'd give it to Sasuke more times then not. Sasuke's likely gonna catch Kakashi by using his teleporting jutsu and landing the final blow before Kakashi can land one of his.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Please, enlighten me how Kakashi is "too much" for Sasuke?





Bait city ?

Read the multiple pages of posts that i have posted. I will not re type of that over again...I know u will understand


----------



## Lord Aizen (Aug 9, 2014)

The only technique that puts sasuke at danger is long range kamui which is never going to hit so kakashi loses. For kakashi to use long range kamui he would have to also warp a huge mass of PS which will take way too long to do. With sasukes far superior precog he will know when kakashi is going to do long range kamui and teleport a PS sword into kakashis face


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Lord Aizen said:


> The only technique that puts sasuke at danger is long range kamui which is never going to hit so kakashi loses. For kakashi to use long range kamui he would have to also warp a huge mass of PS which will take way too long to do. With sasukes far superior precog he will know when kakashi is going to do long range kamui and* teleport a PS sword into kakashis face*




Double MS = 2x Kamui Speed & 2x Obito Intagible speed


Which means sasuke isnt landing shit. Kamui spams from a flying PS is much more likely to deal the final blow


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Double MS = 2x Kamui Speed & *2x Obito Intagible speed*
> 
> 
> Which means sasuke isnt landing shit. Kamui spams from a flying PS is much more likely to deal the final blow



How can you double the speed of something that is basically as fast as your reaction time?


----------



## Lord Aizen (Aug 9, 2014)

αce said:


> This entire argument is pointless. Let me just sum this up in a way that anyone can understand, because apparently my past posts weren't clear enough
> 
> 
> >Madara's reactions are to the point where point blank FTG's from two of the best space/time users are pointless against him. he was also reacting to 7th gate Gai, who is clearly faster than kakashi
> ...



Even if kakashi is out of character he gets owned. This is joke thread only kakashi wankers and sasuke haters would think this fight would be close


----------



## Lord Aizen (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Double MS = 2x Kamui Speed & 2x Obito Intagible speed
> 
> 
> Which means sasuke isnt landing shit. Kamui spams from a flying PS is much more likely to deal the final blow



I took all that into account when making my post. If kakashi tries to do long range kamui he gets a PS blade through his face. Intangibility doesn't achieve anything sasukes PS is far stronger, durable and faster than kakashis and sasukes precog is leagues above kakashis. Kakashis reaction speed is mid tier if sage madara gets blitzed kakashi literally gets blitzed 10x harder. Kakashi won't be reacting to sasukes S/T


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Lord Aizen said:


> I took all that into account when making my post. If kakashi tries to do long range kamui he gets a PS blade through his face. Intangibility doesn't achieve anything sasukes PS is far stronger, durable and faster than kakashis and sasukes precog is leagues above kakashis. *Kakashis reaction speed is mid tier* if sage madara gets blitzed kakashi literally gets blitzed 10x harder. Kakashi won't be reacting to sasukes S/T






In this thread kakashi was give Obito speed feats


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> In this thread kakashi was give Obito speed feats



Juudara, who's superior to Juubito in everyway, got blitzed by Sasuke twice, so that doesn't change shit


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Juudara, who's superior to Juubito in everyway, got blitzed by Sasuke twice, so that doesn't change shit




Again u bring up juubidara...get off the dudes dick lame.

Kakashi, by panel feat alone, has shown to be at least a fast as sasuke in last chapter. Like it or not, we have to go on by what the previous chapter has shown.


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Again u bring up juubidara...get off the dudes dick lame.
> 
> Kakashi, by panel feat alone, has shown to be at least a fast as sasuke in last chapter. Like it or not, we have to go on by what the previous chapter has shown.



Sorry dude, but Juudara is better than Juubito in everyways, unless you believe 2 MS Obito > Juudara


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Sorry dude, but Juudara is better than Juubito in everyways, unless you believe 2 MS Obito > Juudara




that has no relevance at all....

It's strange how Kishi gave kakashi this power-up. He seemingly got a huge boost in nearly every stat. 2 MS's shouldnt enable Kakashi to do what he is going to be able to do, but its happening.

Why ? I dunno....but Sasuke=> Kakashi seems to be real right now. Deal with it.


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> that has no relevance at all....
> 
> It's strange how Kishi gave kakashi this power-up. He seemingly got a huge boost in nearly every stat. 2 MS's shouldnt enable Kakashi to do what he is going to be able to do, but its happening.
> 
> Why ? I dunno....but *Sasuke=> Kakash*i seems to be real right now. Deal with it.



Thank you for approving with me


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Thank you for approving with me




I meant that as Sasuke and Kakashi equals or sasuke is slightly better. Any more feats by kakashi without sasuke showing us something more will tip this scale.


----------



## Jagger (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Bait city ?
> 
> Read the multiple pages of posts that i have posted. I will not re type of that over again...I know u will understand


Most of what you have said has already being debunked or doesn't make sense.


----------



## Trojan (Aug 9, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Sasuke still wins. Kakashi's probably around EMS Madara's level, which is far below what Sasuke is now. *Sasuke was able to sever Kaguya's arm* (though it took much more effort than Naruto) and could survive the pummeling she gave him. His Rinnegan Shifting would be a counter to Kamui too since.



Just out of curiosity, when did that ever happen?


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## Edo Madara (Aug 10, 2014)

There are nothing that too fast for Kamui, Obito can fight naruto, kakashi, and gai at the same time because of kamui and he only have one ms. Even Juudara can't do shit to kamui.


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## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Most of what you have said has already being debunked or doesn't make sense.




Umm no...

Nothing u or anyone else have said to debunk any of my points...


Sasuke and Kakashi nearly equal in speed
Kakashi's PS is on the same tier as Sasukes
Kakashi gained a huge speed feat from last chapter
Kakahi's chakra has risen through the roof (opening PS)
Kamui 2x speed
intagible 2x speed


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## Bkprince33 (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Umm no...
> 
> Nothing u or anyone else have said to debunk any of my points...
> 
> ...



Sasuke has way better speed feats then kakashi such as blitzing judara, the same judara who was a jubi jin and has way better reactions then ms kakashi, and yet where suppose to believe kakashi wont end up the same?

kakashi ps is featless so thats nothing more then speculation, but it's pretty silly to think, regular ms susano = ridikuo powered susano

another baseless speculation as we don't know how far kakashi was from sakura, even if we assume kakashi gained a miraculous speed feat, you can't prove he has the reactions to avoid getting blitzed by sasuke

let's see how long he can hold it for then we can have a conversation

and his reactions vs judara?


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## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> kakashi ps is featless so thats nothing more then speculation, but it's pretty silly to think, regular* ms susano = ridikuo powered susano*
> 
> another baseless speculation as we don't know* how far kakashi was from sakura*, even if we assume kakashi gained a miraculous speed feat, you can't prove he has the reactions to avoid getting blitzed by sasuke
> 
> ...




Kakashi reacted to the hands where as sasuke had to be pushed out of the way....that shows us that the speed is in the same tier regardless of where Sakura was because Kakashi at least was able to make a move on it whereas sasuke could not. 

Kakashi's PS looks exactly like Sasuke's PS...this is why I am putting them in the same tier.

Sasuke has virtually shown us nothing against Kaguya, not saying Kakashi could either, but Kakashi has more haxx than sasuke and could be of more utility.


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## Hachibi (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Kakashi reacted to the hands where as sasuke had to be pushed out of the way....that shows us that the speed is in the same tier regardless of where Sakura was because Kakashi at least was able to make a move on it whereas sasuke could not.
> 
> *Kakashi's PS looks exactly like Sasuke's PS...this is why I am putting them in the same tier.*
> 
> Sasuke has virtually shown us nothing against Kaguya, not saying Kakashi could either, but Kakashi has more haxx than sasuke and could be of more utility.



Putting Kakashi's PS in the same tier as Sasuke's because they look the same



So that mean Base Naruto's Rasenshuriken is in the same tier as KCM Naruto's?


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## Bkprince33 (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Kakashi reacted to the hands where as sasuke had to be pushed out of the way....that shows us that the speed is in the same tier regardless of where Sakura was because Kakashi at least was able to make a move on it whereas sasuke could not.
> 
> Kakashi's PS looks exactly like Sasuke's PS...this is why I am putting them in the same tier.
> 
> Sasuke has virtually shown us nothing against Kaguya, not saying Kakashi could either, but Kakashi has more haxx than sasuke and could be of more utility.






that panel shows sasuke and both naruto being pushed out the way by his clone, how do we know sasuke didn't react? especially when on the next panel we see sakura reacting to the hands and she even had enough time to scream and attempted to run


sasuke was about to save her and stopped when he saw kakashi


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## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Putting Kakashi's PS in the same tier as Sasuke's because they look the same
> 
> *So that mean Base Naruto's Rasenshuriken is in the same tier as KCM Naruto's?*





Never said that ?

Kakashi's PS its built the same and has wings similar to Sasukes. 

Base Naruto and KCM are the same person, u cant use the logic


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## Hachibi (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Never said that ?
> 
> Kakashi's PS its built the same and has wings similar to Sasukes.
> 
> Base Naruto and KCM are the same person, u cant use the logic



Nope, but since you said that because they look the same, so i used that as a exemple
but if you want, so does that mean Base Naruto's Rasengan is equal to Base Minato's?


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## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> *that panel shows sasuke and both naruto being pushed out the way by his clone*, how do we know sasuke didn't react? especially when on the next panel we see* sakura reacting to the hands and she even had enough time to scream and attempted to run*
> 
> 
> sasuke was about to save her and stopped when he saw kakashi




Naruto reacted...not sasuke by pushing himself and sasuke from the way.

Sakura was most likely further away and had more time to react, so it makes sense.


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## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Nope, but since you said that because they look the same, so i used that as a exemple
> but if you want, so does that mean Base Naruto's Rasengan is equal to Base Minato's?




Kakashi's PS was moving at enough speed to intercept Sakura...I don't see what Kakashi's PS wouldnt be on the same tier ..


Minato is not 9 tales fox jin either...obviously not the same situation


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## Hachibi (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Kakashi's PS was moving at enough speed to intercept Sakura...I don't see what Kakashi's PS wouldnt be on the same tier ..
> 
> 
> Minato is not 9 tales fox jin either...obviously not the same situation



Yeah no, it isn't impressible if Sakura can dodge it for a while

Minato was clearly Kyuubi Jin in his edo self


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## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Yeah no, it isn't impressible if Sakura can dodge it for a while
> 
> Minato was clearly Kyuubi Jin in his edo self




Sakura was at a much further distance and had more time to react than Sasuke and Naruto.

Why didnt sasuke just teleport out of the way of the hand ? Obviously its not instant or he would have.

Kakashi is not getting blitzed...sorry


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## Hachibi (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Sakura was at a much further distance and had more time to react than Sasuke and Naruto.
> 
> Why didnt sasuke just teleport out of the way of the hand ? Obviously its not instant or he would have.
> 
> Kakashi is not getting blitzed...sorry



Proof that Sakura was at a much further distance? 

it's instant, just like Hiraishin, like how he swaped place with Sakura's Jacket to catch her before she fall to the ground

Kakashi got blitzed by Juudara so, and even then the burden of proof is on you


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## Bkprince33 (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Naruto reacted...not sasuke by pushing himself and sasuke from the way.
> 
> Sakura was most likely further away and had more time to react, so it makes sense.



  Any proof for this claim?


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## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Any proof for this claim?




Here we Sasuke and Naruto together, but no Sakura 

here? 

Again you can see naruto and his clones plus Sasuke but no Sakura
We also see Naruto reacting to the hands but Sasuke is not able and is pushed out of the way

here?


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## Bkprince33 (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Here we Sasuke and Naruto together, but no Sakura
> 
> Physical Power
> 
> ...



So couldn't the same claim your making for sakura be made for kakashi as well? 


your basis for kakashi and sasuke having the same speed is based off a inaccurate comparasion in the first place which is what im trying to point out to you


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## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> So couldn't the same claim your making for sakura be made for kakashi as well?




No because Sasuke was unable to react to the hand...but kakashi did.


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## Bkprince33 (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> No because Sasuke was unable to react to the hand...but kakashi did.



So did Sakura


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## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> So did Sakura




Sakura was further away and had more time to react....I just said this.


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## Bkprince33 (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Sakura was further away and had more time to react....I just said this.



How do we know kakashi wasn't further away and had more time to react I just said this


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## Jet Pistol (Aug 10, 2014)

So Kakashi's reactions are equal or better than Sasuke's just cause he did something Sasuke couldn't do it time? Might as well say that an exhausted Kakashi and Obito are physically stronger than Naruto cause they could move in gravity while Naruto couldn't.

It was PIS and Kakashi was conveniently closer to Sakura.


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## Jet Pistol (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> No because Sasuke was unable to react to the hand...but kakashi did.



Sakura could. Sakura > Sasuke in reactions and speed then.

Sasuke stomps btw.


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## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

Jet Pistol said:


> So Kakashi's reactions are equal or better than Sasuke's just cause he did something Sasuke couldn't do it time? Might as well say that an exhausted Kakashi and Obito are physically stronger than Naruto cause they could move in gravity while Naruto couldn't.
> 
> It was PIS and Kakashi was conveniently closer to Sakura.




Your logic makes zero sense...


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## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

Jet Pistol said:


> Sakura could. Sakura > Sasuke in reactions and speed then.
> 
> Sasuke stomps btw.




Sakura was further away and had more time to react loser...

Kakashi stomps btw


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## Jet Pistol (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Your logic makes zero sense...



You're arguing that Kakashi has better reactions than Sasuke because he could react to the white hand while Sasuke couldn't and that he saved Sakura when Sasuke couldn't. Using your logic, this would mean Kakashi and Obito are physically stronger than Kaguya, Naruto, and Sasuke because they were able to move in gravity when those 3 couldn't. Keep in mind that Kakashi and Obito performed much better than Naruto and Sasuke despite being exhausted and further away from Kaguya.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Aug 10, 2014)

Sasuke should win even with the fanfic scenario the OP made. Sasuke can nail juubi jin madara multiple times with his space shifting tech and can slash up multi mountain range sized meteors before naruto's bijjudama's explode. Simply put obito levels of speed and reactions aren't keeping up with that type of speed on a consistent basis.


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## Blu-ray (Aug 10, 2014)

This is what the manga did to the battledome with all its inconsistencies huh. I'm not jumping to any conclusions saying Sasuke lol blitzes as logical as that would be. Kishi seems to be trolling the poor boy worse than the Obito and Kabuto fight combined.


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## Lord Aizen (Aug 11, 2014)

we give kakashi obitos reaction/feats and it doesn't change anything. Obito is overrated as with kamui. To think just because kakashi has MS/PS he can match a rikudou powered sasuke is ridiculous. It's gotten to the point were people think kakashi can beat sage madara and naruto it's too much.


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## JuicyG (Aug 20, 2014)

Yes Kakashi > Sasuke at this point based on what has been seen thus far.


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## JuicyG (Aug 20, 2014)

Lord Aizen said:


> we give kakashi obitos reaction/feats and it doesn't change anything. Obito is overrated as with kamui. To think just because kakashi has MS/PS he can match a rikudou powered sasuke is ridiculous. It's gotten to the point were people think kakashi can beat sage madara and naruto it's too much.




Kakashi tops everything sasuke can throw at him at this point...hate to say..but I told u guys HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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