# Jirayia vs Itachi



## Marvel (Mar 29, 2018)

Location and Kisame vs Part 1 Jounin
Knowledge:Anime
Restrictions:None
Distance:15m


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## The_Conqueror (Mar 29, 2018)

Jiraiya wins or in best case scenario for Itachi it's a draw

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4 | Funny 3 | Winner 1 | Useful 1


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## Maverick04 (Mar 29, 2018)

*insert a tldr comment with random abilities and explanation on how the character you are rooting for wins the fight*

For me both die..Let's just leave it there before the shitstorm

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Marvel (Mar 29, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> *insert a tldr comment with random abilities and explanation on how the character you are rooting for wins the fight*
> 
> For me both die..Let's just leave it there before the shitstorm



Thanks fir answering the question and elaborating on Which side wins.

I know I can always count on you!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Maverick04 (Mar 29, 2018)

Levi Ackerman said:


> Thanks fir answering the question and elaborating on Which side wins.
> 
> I know I can always count on you!

Reactions: Winner 1


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## oiety (Mar 29, 2018)

Done to death, but at such a close distance and with no restrictions Jiraiya probably falls to Tsukiyomi or Amaterasu.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Mar 29, 2018)

Hmm Jiraiya is a pretty bad match up for Itachi since apparently according to the NBD he's immune to Genjutsu

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Winner 1 | Informative 1 | Disagree 1


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## Serene Grace (Mar 29, 2018)

Depends on how serious you'd think Jiraiya would take Itachi with manga knowledge. It's implied that Jiraiya knew about Itachi slaughtering his entire village since he allowed Sasuke to fight Itachi, an attempt to honour his feelings, wouldn't make sense for Jiraiya to just randomly let Sasuke fight an S class criminal for no reason. I do not believe that someone as knowledgeable and smart as Jiraiya would underestimate someone strong enough to wipe out the entire Uchiha clan.

Taking that into my mind, in my opinion, I don't see Jiraiya fucking around early. He'll likely opt for SM early off the bat after maybe a few parry's. Being cautious of genjutsu I see him summoning a toad/kage bunshins for partner method support or relying on his sensing barrier. It's at this point that obtaining SM is the main thing on his mind, which he should be able to do as the location greatly benefits him. Location is a large body of water, meaning jutsu's such as hiding in the toad, or Kekkai:  can be utilized perfectly here, allowing him to hide in either of them and safely obtain SM. All he'd require is to distract itachi with a few bunshins, whilst the real Jiraiya goes under water and to hide in either of the toads.

After obtaining SM it should be an equal footing match as Jiraiya can now protect himself from a good portion of Itachi's abilities.

 Jiraiya , and makes kage bunshins to block itachis LOS so the clones would be hit by ama instead. so Jiraiya should have enough time to make a few clones. This isn't hard to believe when both pa and ma can sense the build up of Amaterasu, so even they can add additional LOS blocking katons, or dust clouds giving Jiraiya time to escape.

CQC does not seem like it would be best option for Jiraiya. Engaging in CQC would open up a chance of Itachi landing Tsukuyomi, which imo would be the end of this match right there. Jiraiya is aware of the potency of Tsukuyomi as he witnessed Itachi using it to torture Sasuke, and he knew Kakashi was put in an indefinite coma from it.  I see him keeping it cool and relying on the distance he keeps via his large-scale katons and or distractions/LOS blockers such as dust clouds and clones and or gamadeirra.

I believe there are times Jiraiya speed is looked down upon, when in fact he is actually pretty fast. In SM, He was blitzing shared vision, creating a crater from his jump alone, hitting animal path before it could make hand seals to summon - (mind you that same animal path was able to react and make handseals for summoning before Jiraiya's _fastest wide range _jutsu could reach him)and touching Preta path with rasengan before he was able to manifest his spiritual barrier(mind you he was able to erect said barrier before FRS was able to reach him). Jiraiya can react to everything Itachi throws at him(bar Amaterasu) with his SM enhanced reflexes, and his sensing which is applicable to both ma and pa as well, yes that includes Totsuka blade as it only blitzed Orochimaru and a cripple Nagato, with sensing and enhanced reflexes+speed Jiraiya reacts to it no problem. SM enhanced Yomi Numa has the means to stall Yomi Numa temporarily, or at the worst disrupt it footing, allowing Jiraiya to keep the distance he set.


It's 51/49 Jiraiya imo, with toad summonings, ma an pa helping him out, and indefinite SM I see him coming out on top, but he will lose an arm a leg, or maybe even his _life_ in the process. Given he's almost or is a master at setting up tricks to give himself openings via Gamadaira clones, Gama trio, Yomi Numa, s, and ma's dust cloud()(), I think he'd able to keep the distance and hold Itachi off until he gets off
+ Magen: Gama Rinshō()-() to end the match or until he falls on the floor via exasperation and dies

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Bonly (Mar 29, 2018)

Jiraiya has better reactions then Sage Naruto and Sage Kabuto since he'll be able to react better then either one of the two have in canon to counter Itachi's jutsu and Jiraiya will be able to come up with the perfect counter to Itachi’s MS jutsu without any mistakes before he knows which is coming so Jiraiya wins

Reactions: Winner 1


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## sabre320 (Mar 29, 2018)

Shit storm incoming....


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## 1yesman9 (Mar 29, 2018)

Bonly said:


> Jiraiya has better reactions then Sage Naruto and Sage Kabuto since he'll be able to react better then either one of the two have in canon



Where is this coming from?


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## Bookworm (Mar 29, 2018)

Obviously Itachi kills Jiraiya quickly, Jiraiya underestimated Itachi before.


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## Serene Grace (Mar 29, 2018)

1yesman9 said:


> Where is this coming from?


He's joking


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## Bonly (Mar 29, 2018)

1yesman9 said:


> Where is this coming from?



Sasuke used Ama against Kabuto and Kabuto almost got hit and didn't because Sasuke was keeping Kabuto back and wasn't suppose to kill him. Despite Kabuto being a Sage Mode sensor he couldn't sense the build up and perform a jutsu or two in order to counter it. Jiraiya on the otherhand can sense the build up of chakra and get a jutsu(not just any jutsu now but the perfect counter of a jutsu) off in order to avoid Ama hitting him. Therefore Jiraiya that means that Jiraiya has better reactions then Sage Mode Kabuto.

Same for Naruto. Naruto has never sensed the build up of chakra for any jutsu and then proceed to set up some counters before a jutsu can get off. The same Naruto who you would think is a better sensor then Jiraiya and would have better reactions. But Jiraiya on the otherhand again can sense a build up of chakra and preform a jutsu before being hit and he'll do such perfectly. Thus Jiraiya>Naruto in reactions


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## 1yesman9 (Mar 29, 2018)

Serene Grace said:


> He's joking



oops. o.o


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## 1yesman9 (Mar 29, 2018)

Anyways, Itachi wins in spite of P1 hype due to
- his ability to genjutsu summons
- jman's lack of canonical genjutsu resistance and Itachi's genjutsu feats against another sannin
- jman lacking in speed feats to dodge ama
- jman lacking in overall feats to fight on par with a full body susanoo that low diff'd hydra.


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## Zero890 (Mar 29, 2018)

1yesman9 said:


> jman lacking in speed feats to dodge ama



CS1 Hebi Sasuke dodged Ama lol.


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## Zero890 (Mar 29, 2018)

Bonly said:


> Sasuke used Ama against Kabuto and Kabuto almost got hit and didn't because Sasuke was keeping Kabuto back and wasn't suppose to kill him. Despite Kabuto being a Sage Mode sensor he couldn't sense the build up and perform a jutsu or two in order to counter it. Jiraiya on the otherhand can sense the build up of chakra and get a jutsu(not just any jutsu now but the perfect counter of a jutsu) off in order to avoid Ama hitting him. Therefore Jiraiya that means that Jiraiya has better reactions then Sage Mode Kabuto.
> 
> Same for Naruto. Naruto has never sensed the build up of chakra for any jutsu and then proceed to set up some counters before a jutsu can get off. The same Naruto who you would think is a better sensor then Jiraiya and would have better reactions. But Jiraiya on the otherhand again can sense a build up of chakra and preform a jutsu before being hit and he'll do such perfectly. Thus Jiraiya>Naruto in reactions



Although Jiraiya can not, two toads with 500 years of training in Senjutsu should.


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## 1yesman9 (Mar 29, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> CS1 Hebi Sasuke dodged Ama lol.



For how long?


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## Bonly (Mar 29, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> Although Jiraiya can not, two toads with 500 years of training in Senjutsu should.



Ma+Pa reactions> Naruto and Kabuto?


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## Zero890 (Mar 29, 2018)

Bonly said:


> Ma+Pa reactions> Naruto and Kabuto?



Hebi Sasuke reaction>Naruto, SM Kabuto, SM Jiraiya+Ma and Pa?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Bookworm (Mar 29, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> CS1 Hebi Sasuke dodged Ama lol.



It's not like Itachi could hit Sasuke full on, so it's not like Itachi was trying to burn his whole body or kill him.


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## Bonly (Mar 29, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> Hebi Sasuke reaction>Naruto, SM Kabuto, SM Jiraiya+Ma and Pa?



Sasuke didn't face a serious Ama, unless you think Itachi was actually trying to kill Sasuke during that fight

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 29, 2018)

What's even the point in these threads anymore? Everyone is already set in their belief on who they think will win. It's unlikely that anyone's opinion will change.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Zero890 (Mar 29, 2018)

Trolling said:


> It's not like Itachi could hit Sasuke full on, so it's not like Itachi was trying to burn his whole body or kill him.





Bonly said:


> Sasuke didn't face a serious Ama, unless you think Itachi was actually trying to kill Sasuke during that fight



In that part he did it. Obito says that Itachi had to press him and that's why he tried to hit Sasuke with Ama. He did it to get Orochimaru outta Sasuke's body


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## Mithos (Mar 29, 2018)

I've always leaned slightly towards Jiraiya, but this match has and will always be a toss up, with the victory barely securing their win. This is how Itachi believed it would go as well. 

Their portrayal has always been too close for either to defeat the other with anything but the highest of difficulty. Both received the same score in the Databook - the only two to get 35.5. They were also used as milestones for Naruto and Sasuke, respectively: They both died at the same point in the manga, and Naruto and Sasuke inherited their powers (i.e., Sage Mode and the Mangekyou Sharingan). However, Sage Naruto was implied, I believe, to be slightly superior to MS Sasuke, which makes me lean a bit more towards Jiraiya.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Bonly (Mar 29, 2018)

Zero890 said:


> In that part he did it. Obito says that Itachi had to press him and that's why he tried to hit Sasuke with Ama. He did it to get Orochimaru outta Sasuke's body



Even then when Obito said Itachi could've killed you if he wanted, Sasuke thought back to Ama hinting that he wasn't in that moment


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## Gohara (Mar 29, 2018)

Itachi wins in my opinion.  Kisame seems to think that Itachi is superior.  And Itachi has Izanami and Izanagi.  Which arguably ranks Itachi superior to any non-top tier characters.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ~Kakashi~ (Mar 29, 2018)

People mistake that popular panel as Itachi inferring he and Jiraiya would tie at best, when he's actually talking about the kyuubi, and that's made obvious in numerous ways. Jiraiya's only real shot vs Itachi is Gama Rinsho and in a serious fight I doubt Itachi gives him enough time to pull it off.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Creative 1 | Disagree 1


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 30, 2018)

Didn't Itachi already state the best is a tie. And he didn't even know about Sennin mode. Sennin mode also grants slight precog. Considering Itachi's stamina and jiraiya's I guess 60-40 to Jiraiya.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## hbcaptain (Mar 30, 2018)

Itachi slaughters him

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## Kai (Mar 30, 2018)

Kisame: "Why did we have to retreat...? With your power..."

Itachi: "There's no need to be impatient... none. Besides which, I must rest my body..."

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Hi no Ishi (Mar 30, 2018)

Jiraiya wins 60/40.
Although these guys are clearly portrayed as the same level of problem, Jiraiya's versatility gives him the edge in a lot of ways so I lean toward him. 


For all the instant OOC Amaterasu, that can't be blocked, anticipated or dodged fans, stop it.

Base exhausted Naruto, CS Sasuke, Killer B with no Knowledge, Nagato, V2 A4, WA B, and KCM Naruto have all done those things on some level. 

Tsukiyomi or Tosuka are much bigger problems for Jiraiya.

Reactions: Like 1


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## koton123 (Mar 30, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


> Jiraiya wins or in best case scenario for Itachi it's a draw


you just stole that quote from itachi

Reactions: Like 1


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## The_Conqueror (Mar 30, 2018)

koton123 said:


> you just stole that quote from itachi

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Trojan (Mar 30, 2018)

Jiraiya wins as per canon statements and portrayal. Which is fairly obvious.

From previous thread... 




-------



--------




-------
*Not so much, but whatever *



------------------



(not the exact trasnaltion, but whatever now)



----
B-b-but itachi-sama! 
He is so different, he is so special, this must be fabrication you itachi-hater! 
this can't be! just because the narrative tells us, and shows us how SM users are superior, that does not mean our lord and savior itachi is under the same law! he is MORE special than the rest! 

Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi! Comes save itachi and one-shot those fodder sannin!

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Trojan (Mar 30, 2018)

Kai said:


> Kisame: "Why did we have to retreat...? With your power..."
> 
> Itachi: "There's no need to be impatient... none. Besides which, I must rest my body..."



with your power, what?
We could have taken Naruto and run away?
We could have killed Sasuke

 we could have pressured him using the kids?

I don't see him saying "with your power, you will slighter him in a fair and square fight"... 


you seem rather bias to assume Kisame means itachi will win against Jiraiya fair and square
when it was him who said that the uchiha clan is nothing to Jman some moments earlier.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Creative 1


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## wooly Eullerex (Mar 30, 2018)

itachi wins more times than not


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## Blu-ray (Mar 30, 2018)

That time of month again eh?

Anywho, by portrayal Jiraiya's equal if not superior admitted Itachi was above him, and not by a small margin. Don't see how you go from that to losing to Jiraiya himself more often than not.

Jiraiya's abilities certainly don't match up better since he sucks at genjutsu by his own admission and he isn't an expert on Sharingan like Orochimaru is. His trump cards being far from the most readily accessible things in the world only hurts his odds more, unlike in Itachi's case where he can use his MS techniques whenever he wants.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 4


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## Trojan (Mar 30, 2018)

Blu-ray said:


> Anywho, by portrayal Jiraiya's equal if not superior admitted Itachi was above him, and not by a small margin. Don't see how you go from that to losing to Jiraiya himself more often than not.


That has nothing to do with Jiraiya. 

And if you want to take it that way. "Jiraiya's equal in the war arc" will fodderstomps the living fuck out of itachi. No? 
If not please do tell us how itachi will defeat Oro and the Edo Hokages. 


If not, then Jiraiya = Oro + Edo Hokage (who are part of his power as the summoner)
and therefore, Jiraiya >>>> itachi. 

(using your logic of course)

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Santoryu (Mar 30, 2018)

Interesting to see that the NBD is currently swamped (no pun intended) with Jiraiya supporters. While this has always been a hotly debated topic, I thought the war arc would have placed another coffin to this argument, even among the more ardent supporters of the sage. The only scenario in which I could see  Jiraiya securing a win was if he started the match in _Sage-Mode_.

Portrayal:

Jiraiya is a Sannin, arguably comparable to the other Sannin, though I'd personally give him a slight edge as his feats are simply better. He was surpassed by Sage-Mode Naruto, and because he was kind of dead, he had no opportunity to usurp his student. He was considered a threat a major threat to the Akatsuki-duo in part one, but the high praise bestowed upon him by Kisame was shortly distorted when fish-man considered him a "disappointment", and even questioned Itachi's retreat. There is scarcely a reasonable poster on this forum who believes Jiraiya>Itachi and Kisame, or Jiraiya>the rest of the Akatasuki. Also, consider Itachi's role in the story as a double agent, the fact that he spared Kakashi. Jiraiya's standings perhaps reached its zenith during the battle with Pain; his opponent stated that he may have lost had Jiraiya's knowledge been more extensive. But that didn't happen, what happened was Jiraiya being overwhelmed by Pain who did not even employ the full extent of his abilities. Obito also praised Itachi in a similar fashion.  It doesn't mean Itachi>Obito.


Enter  Itachi

Wisdom of a Hokage at age 7
Awakened the Mangekyo-Sharingan at an early age
Stomped a Sannin so badly (Jiraiya's peer) to the point Orochimaru shifted his life-goals
Stomped Deidara without moving a muscle
Destroyed Hatake Kakashi
Obito considered him a major threat
Danzo considered him a major threat
Sage Kabuto considered him a major threat
Stopped Edo-tensei, outshone EMS Sasuke when battling Sage Kabuto
Led the team against Edo Nagato, and subsequently sealed him. He also kind of outshone KCM Naruto and Bee
Nagato went so far as to say that should his Rinnegan combine with Itachi's Rrinnegan, they could do anything (or something along those lines)
These are just several of the points that tower place Itachi above his opponent; there is no need to explore all of the praise and narrative-statements relating to him. I am not going to discuss the abilities and potential intricacies of the battle as those arguing for Jiraiya's win use vague and outdated quotes in form of portrayal as their primary argument. I'm not saying it'll be easy since Jiraiya and Orochimaru are different fighters, but I don't see how anyone could argue for any Sannin in regards to the portrayal.

Uchiha Itachi wins.

Reactions: Funny 4 | Winner 3


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## Yin (Mar 30, 2018)

I can see Itachi burning up Jiraya's frogs in no time flat, he may have Sannin status yet that doesn't beat having the guts to kill off your entire clan,  a clan that uses sharingan/ mangekyo and so forth, Jiraya got beat up by a weak shinobi in his teen years  just to be called a mear sannin, yet Itachi reached the anbu black ops with a cool ass mask earlier than most adults in his time. Age may not be  a difference for most though in this case Itachi was in his prime while Jiraya was looking forward to retirement.
Ps: Itachi won & konichiwa to everyone!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Serene Grace (Mar 30, 2018)

~Kakashi~ said:


> People mistake that popular panel as Itachi inferring he and Jiraiya would tie at best, when he's actually talking about the kyuubi, and that's made obvious in numerous ways. Jiraiya's only real shot vs Itachi is Gama Rinsho and in a serious fight I doubt Itachi gives him enough time to pull it off.


Based off? 

Absolutely nothing in that panel indicates he's referring to Kurama

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## The_Conqueror (Mar 30, 2018)

Orochimaru was a overall danger to the world compared to the world compared to jiraiya , as a combatant jiraiya is superior. 

And jiraiya already stated  that he has surpassed the title of a sanin and he is a sage.

And most times the problem arising with this sort of matchup is that a character does not show a specific way to deal with a particular jutsu because he hasnot been forced to do that / he has fought sb who used different techniques.

Even if pt1 portrayal Itachi was lying and blah blah in pt2 jiraiya was portrayed strong enough to fight with the leader of akatsuki in his own turf.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trojan (Mar 30, 2018)

Serene Grace said:


> Based off?
> 
> Absolutely nothing in that panel indicates he's referring to Kurama


Nah, itachi assumed that Naruto was a perfect host. You just can't see it because you are a hater.

Reactions: Winner 6


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 30, 2018)

Pain even stated Jiraiya Sama would have beaten him if he knew his secret. IMO pain always >Itachi. 
Not to forget battles in Naruto aren't A beats B and B beats C so A also beats C. In this scenario Jiraiya has more chances as stated by Itachi himself.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 30, 2018)

Hussain said:


> Nah, itachi assumed that Naruto was a perfect host. You just can't see it because you are a hater.


And yet he went to capture Naruto.


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## Blu-ray (Mar 30, 2018)

Hussain said:


> That has nothing to do with Jiraiya.


How does Orochimaru being Jiraiya's equal have nothing to do with Jiraiya?



> And if you want to take it that way. "Jiraiya's equal in the war arc" will fodderstomps the living fuck out of itachi. No?
> If not please do tell us how itachi will defeat Oro and the Edo Hokages.
> 
> 
> ...



Actually by this logic Itachi is still stronger, since there's no reason why the Jiraiya = Orochimaru would still apply and the Itachi>Orochimaru would not. Heck if we just throw common sense to the wayside and go full retard, Kaguya's will declared Itachi to be invincible therefore Itachi>Kaguya>everyone else.


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## Gin Ichimaru's Shadow (Mar 30, 2018)

Itachi wins 6/10 times only due to his intelligence and MS.


Levi Ackerman said:


> Location and Kisame vs Part 1 Jounin
> Knowledge:Anime
> Restrictions:None
> Distance:15m



Jiraiya can only beat Itachi on 2 fields. First is Ma and Pa Genjutsu, but Itachi should able to kill or seal them. Second is stamina, so Jiraiya can outlast Itachi(it would be hard, coz serious Itachi will try to end fight quickly).TBH besides SM, Jiraiya has nothing to take down someone from Itachi's level. It's too many techniques to beat him:Genjutsu(he is not as fast as Minato and KCM Naruto. I doubt he is as good as Gai in avoiding eye contact. Even if he has knowledge, Itachi is in top 3 in Genjutsu in the entire series), Amaterasu(same as above-one direct hit is game over) and Susanoo(Itachi will use Yata Mirror to reverse attacks and seal Jiraiya at some point with Totsuka). Itachi 7/10 times with high level of difficulty.


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## Trojan (Mar 30, 2018)

Blu-ray said:


> How does Orochimaru being Jiraiya's equal have nothing to do with Jiraiya?


it has nothing to do with Jiraiya vs itachi. 
Simply because Jiraiya's fighting style has absolutely nothing to do with Oro's fighting-style. 



Blu-ray said:


> Actually by this logic Itachi is still stronger, since there's no reason why the Jiraiya = Orochimaru would still apply and the Itachi>Orochimaru would not. Heck if we just throw common sense to the wayside and go full retard, Kaguya's will declared Itachi to be invincible therefore Itachi>Kaguya>everyone else.



No, he wouldn't. 
because you are not even looking at Jman's feat. You are just looking "well, he is sannin, and so is Oro. Therefore, itachi defeated Oro, so he defeats Jman". Applying the same logic, current Oro > itachi. Therefore, Jman > itachi.  
regardless of their feats after all, they are both "Sannin" 



> Kaguya's will declared Itachi to be invincible therefore Itachi>Kaguya>everyone else.


Too bad Susanoo does not protect its user against the sound.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## koton123 (Mar 30, 2018)

Santoryu said:


> Interesting to see that the NBD is currently swamped (no pun intended) with Jiraiya supporters. While this has always been a hotly debated topic, I thought the war arc would have placed another coffin to this argument, even among the more ardent supporters of the sage. The only scenario in which I could see  Jiraiya securing a win was if he started the match in _Sage-Mode_.
> 
> Portrayal:
> 
> ...


Hm? it's a fight no you're just looking at both characters past history and achievements and giving 0 acknowledgement to the fight itself it's not an infographic comparison video


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## Blu-ray (Mar 30, 2018)

Hussain said:


> it has nothing to do with Jiraiya vs itachi.
> Simply because Jiraiya's fighting style has absolutely nothing to do with Oro's fighting-style.



Wasn't your first post in this thread_ "Jiraiya wins as per canon statements and portrayal. Which is fairly obvious." _Funny how I didn't see you accounting for fighting styles in that.


> No, he wouldn't.
> because you are not even looking at Jman's feat. You are just looking "well, he is sannin, and so is Oro. Therefore, itachi defeated Oro, so he defeats Jman". Applying the same logic, current Oro > itachi. Therefore, Jman > itachi.
> regardless of their feats after all, they are both "Sannin"


Hussain, this attempt at being obtuse falls flat for multiple reasons, the first being that I never went _"hurr durr Sannin." _In fact I never brought up their titles at all. I brought up a matter of fact comparison, that being that Orochimaru and Jiraiya are equals if not Orochimaru being superior, and that Itachi by Oro's own admission is well above that.

The second is that if Jiraiya is elevated to WA Oro's level because them being equals is some universal constant, then by the same token Itachi would be elevated above him, changing nothing about their relative standing.



> Too bad Susanoo does not protect its user against the sound.


Doubt it'd even need to, if only because Itachi isn't gonna sit down there while he spends one chapter summing his frogs and another waiting for their singing to kick in.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Ganta (Mar 30, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Didn't Itachi already state the best is a tie. *And he didn't even know about Sennin mode.* Sennin mode also grants slight precog. Considering Itachi's stamina and jiraiya's I guess 60-40 to Jiraiya.


So Kishi who originated or gave existence to Sennin modo and whose authorship determines credibility for what Itachi said if both faced off knows less? 




> Not to forget battles in Naruto aren't A beats B and B beats C so A also beats C. In this scenario Jiraiya has more chances *as stated by Itachi himself.*



manga page please?!?!?





Hussain said:


> Nah, itachi assumed that Naruto was a perfect host. You just can't see it because you are a hater.



J-man was the subject.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 30, 2018)

Ganta said:


> So Kishi who originated or gave existence to Sennin modo and whose authorship determines credibility for what Itachi said if both faced off knows less?



Don't even  know what you are trying to say. Itachi said it would be a death match with both possibly dying and itachi didn't even know about jiraiya's sage mode back then. I have no clue how you came to the conclusion that I reckoned Kishimoto knew less.


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## Ganta (Mar 30, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Don't even  know what you are trying to say. Itachi said it would be a death match with both possibly dying *and itachi didn't even know about jiraiya's sage mode back then*. I have no clue how you came to the conclusion that I reckoned Kishimoto knew less.


His unawareness of Sennin modo is one thing.  
Fan-generated outcome based on that is another. 

Kishi regarded Itachi with equal power keeping Sennin modo in mind.


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## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Mar 30, 2018)

This might be the first Jiraiya vs Itachi thread with Anime Knowledge. 

Does that change anything? Does Itachi see any Sage or Toad related techniques, or Jiraiya any extra Doujutsu in the Anime?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 30, 2018)

Ganta said:


> His unawareness of Sennin modo is one thing.
> Fan-generated outcome based on that is another.
> 
> Kishi regarded Itachi with equal power keeping Sennin modo in mind.



Didn't Naruto once say Kakashi's taijutsu is better than Gai. You think that is even remotely possible? Didn't Kishi also regard Neji as stronger than Lee. Do you think he kept the gates in mind? He called the Sand armor the ultimate defense, so he kept Hyuga's rotation and the susanoo in mind?he also said The Byakugan is superior to Sharingan in part one. Do you think he kept all the Hax sharingan jutsus in mind? Kishi didn't write them as equals he made itachi, a character consider them equals and there is a difference. What a character thinks about some other character is not absolute.


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## Tri (Mar 30, 2018)

Only thing that ever seems to come from this thread now is a bunch of optimistic and funny ratings 

I'd say Itachi likely finishes Jiraiya with either Amaterasu or genjutsu before Jiraiya manages to get into SM which he would otherwise need to beat Itachi here.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 30, 2018)

Itachi still thought he wouldn't win even without knowledge of Senjutsu.


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## Kisame (Mar 30, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Itachi still thought he wouldn't win even without knowledge of Senjutsu.


Can you list the jutsu that Itachi knew about Jiraiya?


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 31, 2018)

Itachi did know about the toad King mouth trap.. So yeah probably many.


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## Kisame (Mar 31, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Itachi did know about the toad King mouth trap.. So yeah probably many.


Meyer’s stepson

No he didn't, he was surprised judging by the exclamation mark and there was no further indication he knew about it.

Regardless, you stated Itachi didn't know about SM. So it seems like you know what jutsu Itachi knows and doesn't know.

You should be able to name which of Jiraiya's jutsu he knew about and which he didn't know about.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## savior2005 (Mar 31, 2018)

Itachi would never lie and he claimed that Base Jiraiya >= Full power Itachi. 
Hell, even with more members, Base Jiraiya>= several akatsuki members (at least 3, possible a lot more akatsuki members otherwise Itachi would say something like "if we had 2 more ppl than we'd win". I'd say that according to Itachi, the akatsuki would need to send nearly all their members to stop Base Jiraiya).
What's more is that Kakashi said that the Akatsuki would not dare to move due to Jirariya 
Factoring in SM and Ma and Pa, Jiraiya legit no to low diffs Itachi, according to the honorable man who never lies Itachi himself

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1 | Lewd 1


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 31, 2018)

Shark said:


> Meyer’s stepson
> 
> No he didn't, he was surprised judging by the exclamation mark and there was no further indication he knew about it.
> 
> ...



When have I ever stated I knew what jutsus itachi knew about jiraiya? Even if itachi knew about SM or not he still Said the best outcome is a tie. I only said he probably didn't know about SM. How does that statement equate to me saying I know everything that itachi knows about Jiraiya.


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## Kisame (Mar 31, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> I only said he probably didn't know about SM. How does that statement equate to me saying I know everything that itachi knows about Jiraiya.


You said Itachi had no knowledge of senjutsu, a technique of Jiraiya's.

Why would you know that and not know the rest of Itachi's knwoedlege on the rest of his jutsu? If you're sure he didn't know about SM then you should also be confident regarding the rest of Jiraiya's abilities.

Itachi made no comment regarding knowledge of SM, so your assumption of his knowledge should logically be applicable to the rest of Jiraiya's jutsu.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 31, 2018)

Shark said:


> You said Itachi had no knowledge of senjutsu, a technique of Jiraiya's.
> 
> Why would you know that and not know the rest of Itachi's knwoedlege on the rest of his jutsu? If you're sure he didn't know about SM then you should also be confident regarding the rest of Jiraiya's abilities.
> 
> Itachi made no comment regarding knowledge of SM, so your assumption of his knowledge should logically be applicable to the rest of Jiraiya's jutsu.


Why do u assume should I know the rest of Itachi's knowledge on the rest of his jutsu and be confident about it ? Just because I said that about SM ? Why shouldn't this knowledge be limited only to sennin mode ? Naruto trained with Ero Sennin and he didn't know about it. Itachi and Jiraiya canonically never had any interaction. So i made an assumption that he was unaware of Senjutsu.


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## Kisame (Mar 31, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Why shouldn't this knowledge be limited only to sennin mode ?


Because the manga made no comment regarding Itachi's knowledge on any of Jiraiya's jutsu, so all of them fall into the same category.


> Itachi and Jiraiya canonically never had any interaction. So i made an assumption that he was unaware of Senjutsu.


And what I'm saying is that assumption is as valid as saying he didn't know about any of his other jutsu.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 31, 2018)

And what I'm saying is that assumption is as valid as saying he didn't know about any of his other jutsu.[/QUOTE]

And maybe he didn't. Even that is a possibility. If he didn't know sage mode then safe to " assume " he didn't know about all of the derivative jutsu. Maybe he didn't know Gamayu Endan... or Odama Rasengan. Maybe he made his statement based on Jiraiya's chakra and the faact that he is a sannin.


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## Kisame (Mar 31, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> And maybe he didn't. Even that is a possibility. If he didn't know sage mode then safe to " assume " he didn't know about all of the derivative jutsu. Maybe he didn't know Gamayu Endan... or Odama Rasengan. Maybe he made his statement based on Jiraiya's chakra and the faact that he is a sannin.


He obviously didn't make it simply based on him being a Sannin, Orochimaru will tell you as much. 

When the author makes statements of inferiority he's just telling us who's stronger, guessing what the characters knew or didn't know at that time is mundane without real evidence. Itachi might not have seen any of Jiraiya's jutsu but we don't know either way so it's not credible regardless.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 31, 2018)

Shark said:


> He obviously didn't make it simply based on him being a Sannin, Orochimaru will tell you as much.
> 
> When the author makes statements of inferiority he's just telling us who's stronger, guessing what the characters knew or didn't know at that time is mundane without real evidence. Itachi might not have seen any of Jiraiya's jutsu but we don't know either way so it's not credible regardless.


I only said that because someone said Jiraiya has no idea about Sharingan Jutsu so it will be moping session for Itachi. I just was making an equal argument. If the initial argument was good..so is mine. If the initial argument was baseless..then so is mine.


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## Kisame (Mar 31, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> I only said that because someone said Jiraiya has no idea about Sharingan Jutsu so it will be moping session for Itachi. I just was making an equal argument. If the initial argument was good..so is mine. If the initial argument was baseless..then so is mine.


Yes you're right about that.


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## Braiyan (Mar 31, 2018)

Don't see how Jiraiya successfully gets to SM before falling to genjutsu or a MS tech, and he most definitely needs SM to win. His base arsenal is good enough to force Itachi into using his MS techs, but not good enough to defend against those same techs. So once Itachi starts relying on MS is when he wins decisively.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 31, 2018)

Braiyan said:


> Don't see how Jiraiya successfully gets to SM before falling to genjutsu or a MS tech, and he most definitely needs SM to win. His base arsenal is good enough to force Itachi into using his MS techs, but not good enough to defend against those same techs. So once Itachi starts relying on MS is when he wins decisively.



He can summon toads to keep itachi busy. These aren't pain  summons. They are sentient and are sages themselves. But you have a point. Getting into SM would be a difficult task.


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## Braiyan (Mar 31, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> He can summon toads to keep itachi busy



Toads couldn't even keep a restricted Deva Path busy. Itachi sidesteps them and/or puts them under genjutsu.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 31, 2018)

Braiyan said:


> Toads couldn't even keep a restricted Deva Path busy. Itachi sidesteps them and/or puts them under genjutsu.



Ummm.. Okay. They do know long range nin jutsu too. Bunta does at least. And he can't stare into the eyes of all the toads at once. And jiraiya can use toad King mouth trap. And get inside some toad to stay still and gather Chakra. And itachi speed not equal to Deva path speed.


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## Braiyan (Mar 31, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Ummm.. Okay. They do know long range nin jutsu too. Bunta does at least.



Long range jutsus that can be tanked with Susano'o (or, if they are oil based, blasted back at them with Amaterasu), and if Itachi is going to bring that out the toads are not going to be lasting long at all.



PradyumnaR said:


> And he can't stare into the eyes of all the toads at once.



He doesn't need to, simply putting one toad under genjutsu could lead to that toad fighting the other toads and causing confusion.



PradyumnaR said:


> And jiraiya can use toad King mouth trap



You mean the technique that was countered by Amaterasu and makes him an easy target for any of Itachi's MS techniques?



PradyumnaR said:


> And get inside some toad to stay still and gather Chakra



And why exactly can't Itachi not just kill the toad while Jiraiya is inside it?



PradyumnaR said:


> And itachi speed not equal to Deva path speed.



Preta Path and Naraka Path also casually dodged the toads. Naraka Path being the same Path that got clone feinted by Konohamaru. The toads simply aren't fast enough to pressure Itachi in CQC, much less an Itachi with access to genjutsu and clone feints.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 31, 2018)

Braiyan said:


> Long range jutsus that can be tanked with Susano'o (or, if they are oil based, blasted back at them with Amaterasu), and if Itachi is going to bring that out the toads are not going to be lasting long at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But doesn't susanoo tanking the toads and using amaterasu against the toad mouth trap drain a lot of Chakra?


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## Braiyan (Mar 31, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> But doesn't susanoo tanking the toads and using amaterasu against the toad mouth trap drain a lot of Chakra?



Hardly matters if both the toads and Jiraiya are dead. Plus, sick Itachi used Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu twice (the second being his most prolonged use of it to date) and Susano'o along with his usual clone feints, Katons, and genjutsu. Nothing I said is outside of Itachi's stamina range.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 31, 2018)

Braiyan said:


> Hardly matters if both the toads and Jiraiya are dead. Plus, sick Itachi used Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu twice (the second being his most prolonged use of it to date) and Susano'o along with his usual clone feints, Katons, and genjutsu. Nothing I said is outside of Itachi's stamina range.



.Umm.. Okiee


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 31, 2018)

Whether or not he knew that Jman specifically could use it tho, is obviously another matter entirely 

And one that i wont dispute either way

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Ganta (Mar 31, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Didn't Naruto once say Kakashi's taijutsu is better than Gai. You think that is even remotely possible?



and that he's the greater mind than Shikamaru
and a better sharingan slinger than Sasuke.​
Learn to dismiss Hyperbole.



> Didn't Kishi also regard Neji as stronger than Lee. Do you think he kept the gates in mind?



Neji [IS] stronger than lee. Why don't Kishi factor-in the gates? Because Hachimon (Eight Inner Gates) are labeled as Kinjutsu due to the self-damage. And Lee hasn't the knack for Ninjutsu.



> *He called the Sand armor the ultimate defense*, so he kept Hyuga's rotation and the susanoo in mind?



The shield of Sand when it's working in concert with the armour of sand are [Gaara]'s _"Ultimate Defence", _they didn't say it's a defence that no shinobi can top.



> *he also said The Byakugan is superior to Sharingan *in part one. Do you think he kept all the Hax sharingan jutsus in mind?



 He [or at least Kakashi] didn't say that, only that it's been rumored the Uchiha clan's ancestry lie with the Hyuuga.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Mar 31, 2018)

Ganta said:


> and that he's the greater mind than Shikamaru
> and a better sharingan slinger than Sasuke.​
> Learn to dismiss Hyperbole.
> 
> ...



I know not to take any of these seriously. I used these to say that nothing can be taken as absolute just because a character says it. It is the character saying it to another character and not Kishimoto to the readers.


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## Sapherosth (Apr 1, 2018)

Serene Grace said:


> After obtaining SM it should be an equal footing match as Jiraiya can now protect himself from a good portion of Itachi's abilities.
> 
> * Jiraiya , and makes kage bunshins to block itachis LOS so the clones would be hit by ama instead. so Jiraiya should have enough time to make a few clones. This isn't hard to believe when both pa and ma can sense the build up of Amaterasu, so even they can add additional LOS blocking katons, or dust clouds giving Jiraiya time to escape.*
> 
> ...





That awkward moment when a superior SM user such as Kabuto who actually has ON PANEL feats of sensing whilst blind was unable to even react to Amateratsu before it appears. 

But apparently SM Jiraiya can do as such. In fact, Itachi somehow won't use Amateratsu until after Jiraiya uses SM. 

It's also ironic how Jiraiya HIMSELF stated that you cannot fight effectively using SENSING alone which suggests that he's unable to. But you tards think that he can do it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Sapherosth (Apr 1, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Why do u assume should I know the rest of Itachi's knowledge on the rest of his jutsu and be confident about it ? Just because I said that about SM ? Why shouldn't this knowledge be limited only to sennin mode ? Naruto trained with Ero Sennin and he didn't know about it. Itachi and Jiraiya canonically never had any interaction. So i made an assumption that he was unaware of Senjutsu.




Wait... so if Jiraiya and Itachi canonically NEVER had any interaction, HOW IN THE ACTUAL FUCK did Itachi somehow come up with the idea that Jiraiya >>himself and Kisame, and even the Akatsuki itself? 

What sort of logic is that? Apart from the fact that Itachi flat out lied. Unless Jiraiya’s “Sannin” title is enough to warrant such. Shame Oro doesn’t have that eh...

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 1, 2018)

Sapherosth said:


> Wait... so if Jiraiya and Itachi canonically NEVER had any interaction, HOW IN THE ACTUAL FUCK did Itachi somehow come up with the idea that Jiraiya >>himself and Kisame, and even the Akatsuki itself?
> .
> 
> What sort of logic is that? Apart from the fact that Itachi flat out lied. Unless Jiraiya’s “Sannin” title is enough to warrant such. Shame Oro doesn’t have that eh...




Lolzz... Do you even read your post before actually hitting the post button. What was the point of this absurd essay. How the fuck am I supposed 5o know why itachi would tell that? I didn't write that shit. Take a  guess, maybe because itachi is inferior.

Zetsu calling itachi invincible is true.. Kisame being called a tailless bijuu is true oh but itachi calling jiraiya stronger is a flat out lie?
Come on man try harder. Just a little. 
You have zero proof to back that statement of Itachi lying up but still use it as if it is some gospel. 
Any statement which indicates someone superior to itachi is lie or bluff isn't it? How very convenient.
Half the people who praise itachi never fought him bit yet that is the most legit info ever but when itachi says something himself it is a lie. 
And why would he even lie? So that he wouldn't have to kill him? How very concerning. LMFAO.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sapherosth (Apr 1, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Lolzz... Do you even read your post before actually hitting the post button. What was the point of this absurd essay. How the fuck am I supposed 5o know why itachi would tell that? I didn't write that shit. Take a  guess, maybe because itachi is inferior.
> 
> Zetsu calling itachi invincible is true.. Kisame being called a tailless bijuu is true oh but itachi calling jiraiya stronger is a flat out lie?
> Come on man try harder. Just a little.
> ...



Lol...all that long post and nothing to refute my claims. All just fluff and some barking


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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 1, 2018)

Sapherosth said:


> Lol...all that long post and nothing to refute my claims. All just fluff and some barking


Wow.. Scathing.
No wonder you resorted to this.
how can refute some claims which have no substance in the first place. All you had was baseless assumptions. Show me evidence that Itachi lied about jiraiya being difficult to handle. I'll come back when you have some factual stuff backing your claims. 
Ps - my barking makes more sense than your whining though.


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## Bonly (Apr 1, 2018)

Sapherosth said:


> That awkward moment when a superior SM user such as Kabuto who actually has ON PANEL feats of sensing whilst blind was unable to even react to Amateratsu before it appears.
> 
> But apparently SM Jiraiya can do as such. In fact, Itachi somehow won't use Amateratsu until after Jiraiya uses SM.
> 
> It's also ironic how Jiraiya HIMSELF stated that you cannot fight effectively using SENSING alone which suggests that he's unable to. But you tards think that he can do it.



Don't forget that said moment of Ama he's referring to, is the only one that exist in the manga, it's not like Ama has been shown to get off faster multiple other times in the manga and even in the same battle when Itachi used Ama on the crow with no long build up or anything. But hey we gonna ignore the average and stick with the worst showing we can find while using nothing but use nothing but the best for Jiraiya

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Serene Grace (Apr 1, 2018)

Sapherosth said:


> That awkward moment when a superior SM user such as Kabuto who actually has ON PANEL feats of sensing whilst blind was unable to even react to Amateratsu before it appears.


Never happened. Kabuto wasn't shown sensing an Amaterasu that wasn't aimed at him

Literally, no reason for Kishi to show him sensing it



Sapherosth said:


> But apparently SM Jiraiya can do as such.


Well, Nagato was able to. Unless Nagato's regular sensing> The epitome of frog arts in sensing 

Even then if Jiraiya can't Ma and Pa would be able to



Sapherosth said:


> It's also ironic how Jiraiya HIMSELF stated that you cannot fight effectively using SENSING alone which suggests that he's unable to. But you tards think that he can do it.


I already said that If Jiraiya can't do it Ma and Pa can

Or do you believe Ma and Pa can't sense either 

Stop crying that your precious trasherstu was getting shitted on left and right, go complain to Kishimoto, not me. It was him that made Amaterasu sensed by sensors not me

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sapherosth (Apr 2, 2018)

Serene Grace said:


> Never happened. *Kabuto wasn't shown sensing an Amaterasu *that wasn't aimed at him
> 
> Literally, no reason for Kishi to show him sensing it



The whole point was that Amateratsu was faster than SM sensors can counter. We saw Amateratsu COMPLETELY surrounding Itachi & Sasuke before Kabuto was even able to make a full stop. If it was aimed at him, he'd have no chance at blocking OR dodging. His only option would be oral rebirth. 


Jiraiya, Ma OR Pa has NO knowledge about how Amateratsu works or how it's activated. To say that they counter this jutsu effective is just plain wank.


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 3, 2018)

Jiraiya cannot break out of finger genjutsu because a 30% Genjutsu was not broken out of,by Naruto who spent three years learning to counter Genjutsu+he borrowed Kyuubi's chakra to facilitate him breaking it which again resulted in futility.Ma and Pa summons+SM state is useless when Itachi time and time again proved Partner Method is nothing more than insignificant in front of him.His Genjutsu cannot be detected so trying to break it is futile from the start.Jiraiya lower than negative difficulty loses.Kisame claimed Itachi could have roasted the Frog Sage if he had not retreated contradicting Itachi's original claim.Itachi escaped because he cared for the village.


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## Serene Grace (Apr 3, 2018)

Sapherosth said:


> iraiya, Ma OR Pa has NO knowledge about how Amateratsu works or how it's activated.


Not that I think about it,_ Jiraiya, Ma and Pa don't actually have to know its amaterasu coming_, they could very well believe Tsukuyomi is coming and anticipate/block the same way. Irrespective that blocking the LOS is a contingent factor when dealing with dojutsu as , or that the large build-up of chakra coming from the dojutsu would trigger either ma or pa to attempt to block the LOS.

inb4 J man doesn't know about Tsukuyomi



Sapherosth said:


> Amateratsu was faster than SM sensors can counter.


_Counter what_? The amaterasu was not even *aimed* at him. 



Sapherosth said:


> he'd have no chance at blocking OR dodging.


Says nothing since the occurrence they used amaterasu wasn't a combat situation, i.e their onslaught wasn't even aimed at him.


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## Kisame (Apr 3, 2018)

@Hi no Ishi Why the funny rating?


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## ThomasTheCat (Apr 3, 2018)

Iirc Jiraiya was legit staring Itachi dead in the eyes while Sharingan was active.

He dies to Tsukuyomi or other Genjutsu pretty soon. Itachi thinks of Jiraiya as a major threat. [Not saying his statement of "Jiraiya solos the Akatsuki" is correct].

If Itachi thinks Jiraiya is such a threat, he will try to pull out a solid attack somewhat early on: Tsukuyomi for example. With Jiraiya seemingly having no knowledge of Sharingan Genjutsu, he will be going down quickly.

Itachi would have some issues if Genjutsu was restricted though


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 3, 2018)

15m start distance, in the middle of the leaf village, and Jiraiya starts in base.

Pretty clear Itachi beats him in these conditions. He's blitzed and put into Genjutsu like Killer Bee, or grabbed by Susano arm like SM Kabuto and crushed in CQC. 

Extend distance to 30m and start Jiraiya in SM and we have a fight.


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## Serene Grace (Apr 3, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Whether or not he knew that Jman specifically could use it tho, is obviously another matter entirely
> 
> And one that i wont dispute either way


I mean.. the toad sage 



ThomasTheCat said:


> Iirc Jiraiya was legit staring Itachi dead in the eyes while Sharingan was active


Plot, same way its plot for an Uchiha not to use genjutsu when someone is staring right in their eyes.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ThomasTheCat (Apr 3, 2018)

Serene Grace said:


> Plot, same way its plot for an Uchiha not to use genjutsu when someone is staring right in their eyes.




I can't say no to that because Itachi didn't bother using Genjutsu...


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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 3, 2018)

Sage light said:


> Jiraiya cannot break out of finger genjutsu because a 30% Genjutsu was not broken out of,by Naruto who spent three years learning to counter Genjutsu+he borrowed Kyuubi's chakra to facilitate him breaking it which again resulted in futility.Ma and Pa summons+SM state is useless when Itachi time and time again proved Partner Method is nothing more than insignificant in front of him.His Genjutsu cannot be detected so trying to break it is futile from the start.Jiraiya lower than negative difficulty loses.Kisame claimed Itachi could have roasted the Frog Sage if he had not retreated contradicting Itachi's original claim.Itachi escaped because he cared for the village.


How did kurenei break his genjutsu? Without a partner. AaAnd Itachi has not time and again proved that partner system won't work. He did it once, on Naruto. And how did he get out of the finger genjutsu? Sakura and Chiyo broke it. Is that not partner system? 
MA and PA can easily detect the Chakra flow in jiraiya and disrupt it. Itachi is not having a geass here to use it on everything he sees, he needs eye contact on the specific person. So by the time he gets one of them, the other will know. 
And Itachi didn't run from Jiraiya to save the village. He ran because he had used Tsukuyomi and didn't want to risk it. If he did want to save the village he wouldn't go after Naruto and be okay with Kisame offering to cut Narutos legs. For him not fighting jiraiya does not equate to saving the village. He slaughtered his own clan  he doesn't give a shit about jiraiya. 
Jiraiya has his own frog song genjutsu which will work regardless of Sharingan. 
PA/MA ( can't remember which one) cut through a pain summon with a a jet of water. Why wouldn't they use that to put Itachi on the defense. Sure itachi is a master tactician but yall act as if his opponent won't even think. They have tactics of their own too.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ThomasTheCat (Apr 3, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> How did kurenei break his genjutsu? Without a partner. AaAnd Itachi has not time and again proved that partner system won't work. He did it once, on Naruto. And how did he get out of the finger genjutsu? Sakura and Chiyo broke it. Is that not partner system?
> MA and PA can easily detect the Chakra flow in jiraiya and disrupt it. Itachi is not having a geass here to use it on everything he sees, he needs eye contact on the specific person. So by the time he gets one of them, the other will know.
> And Itachi didn't run from Jiraiya to save the village. He ran because he had used Tsukuyomi and didn't want to risk it. If he did want to save the village he wouldn't go after Naruto and be okay with Kisame offering to cut Narutos legs. For him not fighting jiraiya does not equate to saving the village. He slaughtered his own clan  he doesn't give a shit about jiraiya.
> Jiraiya has his own frog song genjutsu which will work regardless of Sharingan.
> PA/MA ( can't remember which one) cut through a pain summon with a a jet of water. Why wouldn't they use that to put Itachi on the defense. Sure itachi is a master tactician but yall act as if his opponent won't even think. They have tactics of their own too.



^Assuming Jiraiya is going to get into SM

Reactions: Like 1


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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 4, 2018)

ThomasTheCat said:


> ^Assuming Jiraiya is going to get into SM


That I can't argue... My whole argument was because he said ma and pa can't get jiraiya out because partner system doesn't work. So assuming he already took SM into consideration.. Hence my argument.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ThomasTheCat (Apr 4, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> That I can't argue... My whole argument was because he said ma and pa can't get jiraiya out because partner system doesn't work. So assuming he already took SM into consideration.. Hence my argument.



It's amazing that you can actually accept that just fine. Not to mention you're a newer member.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hazuki (Apr 4, 2018)

ThomasTheCat said:


> Iirc Jiraiya was legit staring Itachi dead in the eyes while Sharingan was active.
> 
> He dies to Tsukuyomi or other Genjutsu pretty soon. Itachi thinks of Jiraiya as a major threat. [Not saying his statement of "Jiraiya solos the Akatsuki" is correct].
> 
> ...



jiraiya is enough experimented to know that itachi genjustu wouldn't work that easely on him
he knew itachi reputation , he knew he was facing 2 akatsuki in the same time !

if itachi did nothing against him it was because he knew it wouldn't work that easely and that he need chakra in case he must escape
the situation was difficult but itachi knew that even in the worst case he had amaterasu to escaped , he was calm because of that and also because he had kisame with him too

don't forget jiraiya was protecting naruto in the same time , it is not enough for you to think that itachi use the situation because kisame was with him and because jiraiya was protecting naruto and even sasuke from 2 akatsuki in the same time !?

also jiraiya in part 2 is without a doubt aware about tsukiyumi , kakashi  told him without a doubt !
jiraiya knew kakashi was beaten by tsukiyumi , he knew that only tsunade can heal him
so what you are thinking is ILLOGICAL

jiraiya knew about tsukiyumi since the time kakashi was hit by that
there is no doubt that kakashi talk about this jutsu

also kakashi himself who was hit by tsukiyumi and aware about amaterasu said that the reason why akatsuki ( itachi and kisame ) didn't try to come back to take naruto was BECAUSE OF JIRAIYA

the guy is one of the most intelligence ninja in the manga , he was the one who experimented the tsukiyumi for 72h BUT  he still think that itachi and kisame was afraid to fight jiraiya

kakashi is also very experimented in genjutsu , he know very well that itachi genjutsu woudln't work as easely on jiraiya


all we know is that jiraiya isn't not good at using genjutsu ( exept in sennin mod)
but that doesn't say that he can't deffend against it
for example gai is not good at all but we all know he can defend against it
and orochimaru is supposed to be a genjutsu master but each time he get caught

there is a difference between using genjutsu AND  defending  against genjutsu

there are lots of ninja who can use genjutsu very well but can't defend against it very well

there are lots of ninja who can defend against genjutsu but can't use it very well

that's the difference

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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 4, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> How did kurenei break his genjutsu?


Kurenai broke HEr Genjutsu.



> AaAnd Itachi has not time and again proved that partner system won't work. He did it once, on Naruto. And how did he get out of the finger genjutsu? Sakura and Chiyo broke it. Is that not partner system?


Itachi allowed them.He smiled in the end when he got smacked with Rasengan.No one smiles if you were serious in your task.



> MA and PA can easily detect the Chakra flow in jiraiya and disrupt it. Itachi is not having a geass here to use it on everything he sees, he needs eye contact on the specific person.


He do not need eye contact.How can he control the Shinobi Alliance if he needs eye contact?



> So by the time he gets one of them, the other will know.


His genjutsu is undetectable.



> And Itachi didn't run from Jiraiya to save the village. He ran because he had used Tsukuyomi and didn't want to risk it.


Kisame states he could have ripped Jiraiya a new one if he had Killing intent.



> If he did want to save the village he wouldn't go after Naruto and be okay with Kisame offering to cut Narutos legs.


Itachi has long range sensing abilities.He knew Sasuke was not dead from Deidara C0.Likewise he knew Jiraiya was approaching them.



> For him not fighting jiraiya does not equate to saving the village. He slaughtered his own clan  he doesn't give a shit about jiraiya.


He could have killed Kakashi with tsukiyomi then.



> Jiraiya has his own frog song genjutsu which will work regardless of Sharingan.


It will work.Itachi could reflect it tho.



> PA/MA ( can't remember which one) cut through a pain summon with a a jet of water. Why wouldn't they use that to put Itachi on the defense.


Itachi is too fast for them.



> Sure itachi is a master tactician but yall act as if his opponent won't even think. They have tactics of their own too.


They have tactics of thier own but tactics alone are useless against the opponent they are facing right now.


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## Hazuki (Apr 4, 2018)

Sage light said:


> *Kisame states he could have ripped Jiraiya a new one if he had Killing intent.*
> 
> Itachi has long range sensing abilities.He knew Sasuke was not dead from Deidara C0.Likewise he knew Jiraiya was approaching them.



what kind of manga are you reading ? seemingly it 's not naruto
where was it states in the manga  that kisame could have beat jiraiya ?
what is it the reason to invented ?


seriously some of you  kisame blind  fanboy in this forum should just return in their ocean of dream and lie


also if itachi have a sencing abilities why he was suprised when gai came out from nowhere ?
seriously try to argue next time
itachi himself admit that he is NOT  a sensor !
itachi never sense jiraiya , he just knew that jiraiya would come soon or later after he get distract by the woman
and for sasuke , itachi knew VERY WELL that sasuke was with TOBI !!
Remember the guy almost invincible and can teleport everywhere ??
itachi knew that obito would save his brother  ass in the worst case
anyone with a brain would have the same reaction of itachi

tobi would have never lets sasuke dying against deidara
because he knew very well he is too much important for him , his project and also for itachi

i just don't understand how you cannot  figure out this evidence fact !


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 5, 2018)

Hazuki said:


> what kind of manga are you reading ?


Naruto Manga.


> seemingly it 's not naruto


Yes Naruto.



> where was it states in the manga  that kisame could have beat jiraiya ?


Never said that.



> what is it the reason to invented ?


What do you mean?




> seriously some of you  kisame blind  fanboy in this forum should just return in their ocean of dream and lie


Not a fanboy.




> also if itachi have a sencing abilities why he was suprised when gai came out from nowhere ?


He was acting.



> seriously try to argue next time
> itachi himself admit that he is NOT  a sensor !


He was lying.



> itachi never sense jiraiya , he just knew that jiraiya would come soon or later after he get distract by the woman


Might have, might have not.



> and for sasuke , itachi knew VERY WELL that sasuke was with TOBI !!


How come he knew it instantly?



> Remember the guy almost invincible and can teleport everywhere ??
> itachi knew that obito would save his brother  ass in the worst case


Tobi didn't save him though.



> anyone with a brain would have the same reaction of itachi


Are you telling me I don't have a brain?



> tobi would have never lets sasuke dying against deidara
> because he knew very well he is too much important for him , his project and also for itachi


Tobi never rescued Sasuke.He cared for his own ass.

i





> just don't understand how you cannot  figure out this evidence fact !


Where is the evidence?


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## Hazuki (Apr 5, 2018)

Sage light said:


> Naruto Manga.
> 
> Not a fanboy.
> 
> ...


he was acting and lying ?
even before itachi /nagato met naruto , nagato was the one who feel naruto
itachi himself said to kabuto that it was nagato who is a sensor ,  how can you ignore the manga so far ?

and about obito , i don't think you understand how much important was sasuke for obito
obito knew that itachi care so much about sasuke , and he knew that sasuke is very useful for him
the moment deidara died , obito told to pain and konan , that sasuke is very interesting , sasuke was always a part of his plan

*do you really think it was a coincidence that obito was with deidara when sasuke fought him ?*
i guess you don't know to read between line
obito care about sasuke and he knew that itachi care about sasuke too as his brother he always loved
and you think he would have just let sasuke died like that ?
he knew that sasuke had the pottentiel to survived against deidara and that in the worst case he would save his ass
that the reason why he was with deidara

*why do you think obito choose to be with deidara who wanted sasuke dead after he killed orochimaru ??
can you at least understand that ??*

you aren't interesting to debat , you don't have any argue , only interpretation and ignoring the manga fact

just as i though
i don't want to waste my time with you anymore *so believe what you want *^^


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 5, 2018)

Hazuki said:


> he was acting and lying ?
> even before itachi /nagato met naruto , nagato was the one who feel naruto
> itachi himself said to kabuto that it was nagato who is a sensor ,  how can you ignore the manga so far ?
> you aren't interesting to debat , you don't have any argue , only interpretation and ignoring the manga fact
> ...


Nagato do not have that power.Itachi lied he had.Itachi can read souls so sensed Kabuto going to attack Sasuke.


When did Nagato 'sense' Naruto?

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## Hazuki (Apr 5, 2018)

Sage light said:


> Nagato do not have that power.Itachi lied he had.Itachi can read souls so sensed Kabuto going to attack Sasuke.
> 
> 
> When did Nagato 'sense' Naruto?



chapter 548

Before itachi and nagato met naruto :
 itachi ask nagato " are they close "

nagato said " i feel nostalgic"
( if you aren't too much idiot , then it's enough easy to understand that  he was thinking about *naruto* )

he senced naruto before he arrived and *itachi felt nothing he was the one who asked nagato what's happen and  when they will come *
it was only nagato who told him what's happen 

a few hours after itachi himself admit it was just nagato who told him everything because he was a sensor 

seriously just read the manga and stop ignoring fact
if you don't understand that then don't answer me , that would waste your time


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## Braiyan (Apr 5, 2018)

Sage light said:


> Nagato do not have that power.Itachi lied he had.Itachi can read souls so sensed Kabuto going to attack Sasuke.



>Itachi literally states he is not a sensor
>literally states Nagato is the sensor
>literally states he just relied on his instincts to protect Sasuke, and breaks down why he thought Kabuto would go after Sasuke first

Yet here you are claiming Nagato wasn't a sensor and Itachi's some kind of actual mind reader.

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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 5, 2018)

Hazuki said:


> chapter 548
> 
> Before itachi and nagato met naruto :
> itachi ask nagato " are they close "
> ...


Okay I forgot that so I'll concede , you win.But on the other hand , Itachi himself can sense things.You should not deny that.How did Itachi sense Sasuke without him turning around?In Jiraiya's Apartment?


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 5, 2018)

Braiyan said:


> >Itachi literally states he is not a sensor
> >literally states Nagato is the sensor
> >literally states he just relied on his instincts to protect Sasuke, and breaks down why he thought Kabuto would go after Sasuke first
> 
> Yet here you are claiming Nagato wasn't a sensor and Itachi's some kind of actual mind reader.


Kabuto stated Itachi has lots of secrets+jutsus.He also wondered how Itachi sensed his position when he was about to attack Sasuke.He is a genius at lying.He said Kisame and himself'll lose to Jiraiya if they face off.Kisame said that is a lie later.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 5, 2018)

Jiraya and Itachi have bene portrayed as being very close in strength. I'm honestly not sure who wins, but it will be a high difficulty fight where the winner would need to go all out.


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## Sapherosth (Apr 5, 2018)

1. Oro defeated "the strongest of the 5 kage"


2. Oro stated that "Itachi is stronger than himself".



3. Itachi stated that "If we face off, we might end up killing each other. Backups WOULDN'T change the outcome". Notice how Kisame's hype about the "LEGENDARY SANNIN", which includes Orochimaru in the hype. And we all know Oro isn't > or = Itachi.



More evidence of Itachi lying to avoid conflict with Konoha.




The dude is a fucking EXPERT at lying.


Kisame questions Itachi's retreat

*Spoiler*: __ 








Last but not least, he didn't kill Kakashi.

Evidence in favour of Itachi FAR outweigh ONE statement which is targeting at a TITLE called "Legendary Sannin" which was ALREADY proven to be false.




As for any arguments about Jiraiya using LOS jutsu's and thinking that it hinders Itachi - Itachi actually fought against Hebi Sasuke with very limited vision & when he faced Orochimaru, Itachi was COMPLETELY blind.

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## Braiyan (Apr 5, 2018)

Sage light said:


> Kabuto stated Itachi has lots of secrets+jutsus.He also wondered how Itachi sensed his position when he was about to attack Sasuke.



Which Itachi explained was due to his instincts.



Sage light said:


> He is a genius at lying.



Ok, so?

Nagato demonstrated on panel that he can sense chakra, so that's not a lie. Itachi said it was Nagato instead of him that sensed Kabuto's location, and also confirmed that he himself was not a sensor. Itachi's lack of sensing abilities is then made evident when he explains that it was his instincts and simple deduction which allowed him to figure out Kabuto was going to target Sasuke first.

What you're basically implying is that Nagato and Itachi are both sensors. You would also be implying that Itachi figured out where Kabuto was but decided to lie and say it was Nagato just for shits and giggles. Then he used this sensing ability to protect Sasuke for one attack, and was suddenly hit with the Idiot Ball soon after because he never used that ability again for the rest of the fight when it could have been useful.

Or ... we could just assume Itachi was telling the truth.



Sage light said:


> He said Kisame and himself'll lose to Jiraiya if they face off.Kisame said that is a lie later.



And this has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Itachi has sensing abilities.


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## Serene Grace (Apr 5, 2018)

Sapherosth said:


> Itachi was COMPLETELY blind.


Sensor type Itachi confirmed

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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 6, 2018)

Braiyan said:


> Which Itachi explained was due to his instincts.


Which was a lie.





> Ok, so?
> 
> Nagato demonstrated on panel that he can sense chakra, so that's not a lie. Itachi said it was Nagato instead of him that sensed Kabuto's location, and also confirmed that he himself was not a sensor. Itachi's lack of sensing abilities is then made evident when he explains that it was his instincts and simple deduction which allowed him to figure out Kabuto was going to target Sasuke first.
> 
> ...


Nagato is a sensor.Itachi is also a sensor.Nagato did not sense Kabuto's location.Because no one can sense edo tensei user's location when inside the counter sensing barrier.Kabuto knows all of Nagato techniques yet did not know he had this ability.Itachi has a like on doing things for 'shits and giggles'.He could have pierced the Hydra instead of going for cutting it and giving orochimaru time to talk.Just because.





> And this has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Itachi has sensing abilities.


Okay?Still proves his words should be deducted with extreme precaution as you can't be sure what he is saying.There are more than 20 lies I can state which he stated in canon manga.He fought blind against oro and hydra.He knew Sasuke location while blind.He knew Sasuke was not dead.He knew Sasuke was behind him without turning around yet Kisame had to turn around to figure out it was Sasuke.


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## Braiyan (Apr 6, 2018)

Sage light said:


> Which was a lie.



Itachi having no reason to lie at that moment and showing no sensing abilities afterwards implies that was not the case.




Sage light said:


> Nagato is a sensor.Itachi is also a sensor.Nagato did not sense Kabuto's location.



Based only on your headcanon so far.



Sage light said:


> Kabuto knows all of Nagato techniques yet did not know he had this ability.



Kabuto also sent Sasori and Chiyo out without puppets, and did not abuse Deidara's ability to self-destruct. The man is not a tactical genius. Plus, it's really not that far-fetched to imagine Kabuto didn't care to learn about Nagato's non-Rinnegan abilities.



Sage light said:


> Itachi has a like on doing things for 'shits and giggles'.He could have pierced the Hydra instead of going for cutting it and giving orochimaru time to talk.Just because.



But he still ended up piercing Orochimaru, so not sure what your point is there. And Itachi doesn't lie for shits and giggles.



Sage light said:


> Okay?Still proves his words should be deducted with extreme precaution as you can't be sure what he is saying.



Then I guess anyone can break Tsukuyomi and he never really loved Sasuke.



Sage light said:


> There are more than 20 lies I can state which he stated in canon manga.



Good for you. And there's probably valid reasons for him lying in those situations that don't amount to "just because".



Sage light said:


> He fought blind against oro and hydra.



If he was blind, then his Susano'o would have been deactivated like Sasuke's was against Kakashi.



Sage light said:


> He knew Sasuke location while blind.



Or he wasn't blind.



Sage light said:


> He knew Sasuke was not dead.



Do you mean vs Deidara? Maybe he had faith in his brother's abilities?



Sage light said:


> He knew Sasuke was behind him without turning around yet Kisame had to turn around to figure out it was Sasuke.



He also has X-ray eyes on 24/7 and would know when a genin is tracking him.


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## Jackalinthebox (Apr 6, 2018)

Stop downplaying sensor Itachi


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 6, 2018)

Braiyan said:


> Itachi having no reason to lie at that moment and showing no sensing abilities afterwards implies that was not the case.


Itachi is a genius at lying.He does it for 'shits and giggles' as you said.






> Based only on your headcanon so far.


Based on manga.





> Kabuto also sent Sasori and Chiyo out without puppets, and did not abuse Deidara's ability to self-destruct. The man is not a tactical genius. Plus, it's really not that far-fetched to imagine Kabuto didn't care to learn about Nagato's non-Rinnegan abilities.


He was not completely manipulating them.He gave them some free will.





> But he still ended up piercing Orochimaru, so not sure what your point is there. And Itachi doesn't lie for shits and giggles.


My point was he lingers around when he could've finished things straight and smooth.Itachi lies for 'shits and giggles' as you said.





> Then I guess anyone can break Tsukuyomi and he never really loved Sasuke.


Itachi never said he loved Sasuke until truth was revealed.Kakashi claimed his normal Mangekyou Genjutsu cannot be broken.





> Good for you. And there's probably valid reasons for him lying in those situations that don't amount to "just because".


Why not put the Uchiha clan in pseudo tsukiyomi like Shikaku knew he was capable of?Instead of killing them?He is more than powerful enough to do that ,he slapped 3 Uchihas who were strongest within seconds.





> If he was blind, then his Susano'o would have been deactivated like Sasuke's was against Kakashi.


Madara used SusanoO without eyes.





> Or he wasn't blind.


His sclera was white.





> Do you mean vs Deidara? Maybe he had faith in his brother's abilities?


This is after Zetsu brought information he was dead.





> He also has X-ray eyes on 24/7 and would know when a genin is tracking him.


Was this sarcasm?


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## Bookworm (Apr 7, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> What have you proven by this ? That itachi said sharingan user with kekkei can break the tsukuyomi ? That is exactly what I was saying. Thanks for proving me right. All of those points hinge on the fact that the enemey should be caught in the tsukuyomi. Jiraiya can avoid being caoght. He already knows how sharingan users cast genjutsu. Kakshi foolishly thought his eye can counter it but he learned it the hard way. Look what happened when itachi tried it on kakashi the second time. He was stopped . All ypur points prove what I said... Itachi was reffering to breaking out of Tsukuyomi and not himself as a ninja.
> Ask Might guy if he cared about sharingan genjutsu and all when he was ready to fight itachi. You don't need to break it if you can avoid being caught. What did Itachi do when he heard Guy could anticipate someone by looking at their feet ??
> 
> And Im still waiting for your proof of the Itachi Bluff.



So you do Acknowledge Itachi thought himself was unstoppable? Itachi said so below, which ends the discussion about whether or not Itachi lied or not about Jiraiya:  

What's the Itachi bluff again?​

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## 1yesman9 (Apr 7, 2018)

Serene Grace said:


> Plot, same way its plot for an Uchiha not to use genjutsu when someone is staring right in their eyes.



Yeah but canonically Oro did the same thing against Itachi and he genjutsu'd him right off the bat. I don't think knowledgeable sannin levels staring right into Itachi's eyes is just plot. They probably think they can recognize & break it, or underestimate it's range. Sasuke had to get really close to genjutsu C, and Obito had to get really close to genjutsu Konan, so Itachi's range is special and surprising even among high class Uchiha.


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## Kai (Apr 7, 2018)

Trolling said:


> So you do Acknowledge Itachi thought himself was unstoppable? Itachi said so below, which ends the discussion about whether or not Itachi lied or not about Jiraiya:
> 
> What's the Itachi bluff again?​


For someone with the name Trolling you know how to post facts at face value

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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 7, 2018)

Trolling said:


> So you do Acknowledge Itachi thought himself was unstoppable? Itachi said so below, which ends the discussion about whether or not Itachi lied or not about Jiraiya:
> 
> What's the Itachi bluff again?​


Wut?? Itachi saying only a sharingan kekkei can break his Tsukuyomi = unbeatable.... Wtf... He never claimed he was unbeatable.. He said his jutsu was unbeatable by anyone without a sharingan kekkei. Jesus christ. 
Did you miss my entire  point there. You don't need to break out of it if you aren't caught. He left when guy said he could fight someone by looking at their feet. He ran once Jiraiya enters. Don't tell me he is scared of some Anbu and an old man he bluffed was supposed to be stronger... He is God isn't he. So itachi =/= unbeatable. He never claimed that. All he said was about his jutsu. Only you claim that via wishful misinterpretation. 

You still didn't prove why itachi accepting he couldn't take down Jiraiya is a bluff. I don't want your opinion.. I want proof.


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## Bookworm (Apr 7, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Wut?? Itachi saying only a sharingan kekkei can break his Tsukuyomi = unbeatable.... Wtf... He never claimed he was unbeatable.. He said his jutsu was unbeatable by anyone without a sharingan kekkei. Jesus christ.
> Did you miss my entire  point there. You don't need to break out of it if you aren't caught. He left when guy said he could fight someone by looking at their feet. He ran once Jiraiya enters. Don't tell me he is scared of some Anbu and an old man he bluffed was supposed to be stronger... He is God isn't he. So itachi =/= unbeatable. He never claimed that. All he said was about his jutsu. Only you claim that via wishful misinterpretation.
> 
> You still didn't prove why itachi accepting he couldn't take down Jiraiya is a bluff. I don't want your opinion.. I want proof.


That pg I showed you above wasn't when he referred to Tsukuyomi. He was talking about Tsukuyomi in chapter 142, the page in the post above this post is in chapters 500+.

No I knew your point and it's irrelevant. Regardless of whether you think Jiraiya could avoid it, Itachi said he thought couldn't be stopped by non sharingan user, in Part 1.  In Part 2, at a completely separate time, hundreds of chapters after he met Jiraiya he said he thought himself unstoppable and on this occasion he didn't even mention Tsukuyomi. And if you don't know unstoppable is an synonym for unbeatable.

I don't need proof, all I need is evidence and I got it. Do you have proof Itachi was telling the truth when he said he would die or stalemate with Jiraiya?


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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 7, 2018)

Trolling said:


> That pg I showed you above wasn't when he referred to Tsukuyomi. He was talking about Tsukuyomi in chapter 142, the page in the post above this post is in chapters 500+.
> 
> No I knew your point and it's irrelevant. Regardless of whether you think Jiraiya could avoid it, Itachi said he thought couldn't be stopped by non sharingan user, in Part 1.  In Part 2, at a completely separate time, hundreds of chapters after he met Jiraiya he said he thought himself unstoppable and on this occasion he didn't even mention Tsukuyomi. And if you don't know unstoppable is an synonym for unbeatable.
> 
> I don't need proof, all I need is evidence and I got it. Do you have proof Itachi was telling the truth when he said he would die or stalemate with Jiraiya?


Sigh.... But still.. In his own words...
Jiraiya >/= unstoppable /unbeatable itachi and Kisame.
You asking proof if something is true?? Lol.. Seriously man. Even slower clap.
Do you have proof for anythng any character ever said is truth? The manga itself is proof to everything.
When a character says something, it is common knowledge to take it as a truth unless the author somehow says or hints otherwise.
By your logic, every single thing every character ever said needs proof to be truth. Even shit like it is a sunny day. Grow up man.


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## Sapherosth (Apr 8, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Sigh.... But still.. In his own words...
> Jiraiya >/= unstoppable /unbeatable itachi and Kisame.
> You asking proof if something is true?? Lol.. Seriously man. Even slower clap.
> Do you have proof for anythng any character ever said is truth? The manga itself is proof to everything.
> ...




He already showed you all the hints that shows otherwise.....You chose to ignore it, that's all.

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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 8, 2018)

Sapherosth said:


> He already showed you all the hints that shows otherwise.....You chose to ignore it, that's all.


He showed Jack implicating itachi lied about his inferiority against jiraiya. All he showed was ambiguous stuff which he misinterpret to suit his itachi= unbeatable fantasy. You just fantasize it was that way.. That's all.
No proof that Itachi referred to himself as unbeatable, he talked about Tsukuyomi. 
He thought he was unstoppable," thought. " he didn't proclaim, or state. He thought. Huge difference. 
No proof he lied about jiraiya . Why would he even have to lie only about jiraiya's abilities. 
You have no answers that and go back to same fantasy powered argument of yours.


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## Bookworm (Apr 8, 2018)

Maybe @Sage light can convince @PradyumnaR that Jiraiya loses this fight to Itachi.


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## Serene Grace (Apr 8, 2018)

Itachi didn't flinch when Kisame wanted to mutilate Naruto, he also had no problem putting one of konoha's top ninja in an indefinite coma

Reactions: Like 1


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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 9, 2018)

Trolling said:


> Maybe @Sage light can convince @PradyumnaR that Jiraiya loses this fight to Itachi.


You don't convince people in a debate.. You prove them wrong. Maybe even you can prove me wrong.. If you had any substance backing your argument and not just fanboy fantasies.


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## Sapherosth (Apr 9, 2018)

Serene Grace said:


> Itachi didn't flinch when Kisame wanted to mutilate Naruto, he also had no problem putting one of konoha's top ninja in an indefinite coma




He also didn't flinch putting his brother on fire despite the fact that he had "zero killing intent". It's just to create suspense for the readers. No other reason. 

Shits don't have to make perfect sense. You just have to learn to read between the lines and use common sense. If your common sense says Jiryaiya = Entire Akatsuki together, then that just tells everybody what kind of reader you are.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 9, 2018)

Sapherosth said:


> He also didn't flinch putting his brother on fire despite the fact that he had "zero killing intent". It's just to create suspense for the readers. No other reason.


Poor logic.. Naruto is not his brother. He doesn't give a shit about him. He killed his clan to keep Sasuke safe so him setting him on fire and not killing is shit logic. He set the fire because he was controlling the fight. It was made clear his intent was to exhaust him. 
Would itachi agree if Kisame wanted to slice off Sasuke's legs???? Would he not flinch? 
Sasuke =/= Naruto for itachi. 
Really poor logic.


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## Braiyan (Apr 10, 2018)

And I no longer have any interest in continuing this, if you're going to take databook excerpts like this: 



Sage light said:


> Itachi Eyes can see every thing in the universe - Databook.



seriously. 
On another note, Sasuke's rigged shuriken & Kabuto confirmed to not be of this universe.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 13, 2018)

Braiyan said:


> And I no longer have any interest in continuing this, if you're going to take databook excerpts like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That fight was planned completely you know, as Tobi said. Itachi had to go through planning so he let himself get hit. And there are many reasons why I believe Itachi can see everything in universe; he saw the invisible King Of Hell, which only; individuals whose souls are captured can visualize/percieve.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kai (Apr 13, 2018)

Sage light said:


> he saw the invisible King Of Hell, which only; individuals whose souls are captured can visualize/percieve.


It's only invisible to other people when it's doing interrogation. It can be seen when used for revival or the Outer Path.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 13, 2018)

Kai said:


> It's only invisible to other people when it's doing interrogation. It can be seen when used for revival or the Outer Path.


For reviving the paths; it can be seen; but the fact is, Nagato was extracting Naruto's soul like Naraka extracted Leaf Ninja's; yet Itachi could pinpoint it enough to kunai blitz it; whilst Konohamaru couldn't percieve it


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## The_Conqueror (Apr 13, 2018)

The comment Itachi made didn't even mean Itachi could defeat akatsuki and..  
Just that someone who is not in their league would just get inthe way ,  be a bother or they won't make any difference at all in the fight.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 13, 2018)

Fap.. Fap... Fap... Solo King


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