# Should Mewtwo be OU?



## Mashiba Ryō (Sep 25, 2014)

I think so, even with Life Orb or Mega Stones he can be OHKO'd by Mega Houndoom's sucker punch who is only UU at best. I think that an itemless Mewtwo should be allowed in OU just like Mew, Celebi and Jirachi.


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## BiNexus (Sep 25, 2014)

Ah, this made me smile after reading about Canada's enthralling history for the last 30 minutes.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Sep 27, 2014)

Introvert said:


> I think so, even with Life Orb or Mega Stones he can be OHKO'd by Mega Houndoom's sucker punch who is only UU at best. I think that an itemless Mewtwo should be allowed in OU just like Mew, Celebi and Jirachi.





> *Mega Houndoom*





> *Sucker Punch*



Mewtwo, whose move set is nearly _always_ offensive.

Sucker Punch, which goes first and hits if the target is about to use a damage-dealing attack.

Sucker Punch, which a Dark-type attack and has 80 base power

Houndoom, who is a Dark type, thus raising Sucker Punch's base power to 120.

Mewtwo and Mewtwo Y, both of which are pure Psychic types and weak to Dark-type attacks, ultimately raising the base power of Sucker Punch to 180 or something like that

cmon now.


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## Mashiba Ryō (Sep 27, 2014)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> Mewtwo, whose move set is nearly _always_ offensive.
> 
> Sucker Punch, which goes first and hits if the target is about to use a damage-dealing attack.
> 
> ...



What's your point? A Mega Evolution from UU can still OKHO Mewto and its own Mega Evo who are in Ubers! I think an itemless Mewtwo would be fair and balanced in OU. Also did you vote in my pole?


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## BiNexus (Sep 27, 2014)

I think Yami is arguing for your case, albeit sarcastically.


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## Xiammes (Sep 27, 2014)

252+ Atk Mega Houndoom Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 246-290 (69.4 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Houndoom Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo X: 112-133 (31.6 - 37.5%) -- 89.6% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Mega Houndoom Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 300-354 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO


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## Yami Munesanzun (Sep 27, 2014)

BiNexus said:


> *I think Yami is arguing for your case,* albeit sarcastically.



NNNNNNo.

Because by this logic, we should shift nearly everything down one tier because nearly everything has a weakness to one type or another.


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## Mashiba Ryō (Sep 27, 2014)

Guys this is a new era of Pokemon. Mega Evolutions have left a lot of original Pokemon obsolete. Regular Mewtwo cannot compete in Ubers anymore he is simply outclassed. I think Life Orb Mewtwo might still be too much for OU but and itemless Mewtwo should be fair game. There are so many legendaries in OU already so why not add itemleess Mewtwo to that list?


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## BiNexus (Sep 27, 2014)

You know what? Fuck it.

#FreeMewtwo!!!!!!!!


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## Aduro (Sep 27, 2014)

No way can you put any Mewtwo in a tier with no Mega Gengar, Darkrai, Giratina or Yvetal.


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## Mashiba Ryō (Sep 28, 2014)

I think some people are still brainwashed by his anime feats. In the games he is very beatable these days.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Sep 29, 2014)

Introvert said:


> I think some people are still brainwashed by his anime feats. In the games he is very beatable these days.



Pretty much everything is _very beatable_ these days.

Hell, you can defeat a lvl 100 Arceus with a lvl 1 Smeargle. 

I guess that means Smeargle and Arceus should switch places.


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## babaGAReeb (Sep 29, 2014)

yes mewtwo should be OU but only if u make it adamant and put a toxic orb on it


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## bbq sauce (Sep 29, 2014)

Ubers having specific counters that are in lower tiers has existed forever in pokemon

you listed one counter and only one. if a pokemon has only one counter you can name off the top of your head it is uber. period.


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## YoungChief (Sep 29, 2014)

If Mewtwo was put in OU EVERYONE would have to make sure they had a way to deal with him. His impact would be too huge, and it would force everyone to either have him, have a hard counter, or both. So no, keep Mewtwo in ubers where he belongs


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## Mashiba Ryō (Sep 29, 2014)

If anything belongs in Ubers it's that retarded sword ghost. You can't even hit that thing half the time. Besides Houndoom isn't the only check for Mewtwo. What about choice scarf Greninja? It would make Life Orb Greninja less commonplace therefore balancing out OU even more so! 

Remember this is base Mewtwo we are talking about. Not Mega Mewtwo or Life Orb Mewtwo. Free Itemless Mewtwo!!!!!


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## Ghost (Sep 29, 2014)

lul smogonsword is fine on ou

though i like your "retarded sword ghost" title you've given it


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## Sunrider (Sep 29, 2014)

Does anyone run an itemless anything? 

I didn't think that was something you did unless you just didn't care about getting merc'd.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Sep 29, 2014)

Sunrider said:


> Does anyone run an itemless anything?
> 
> I didn't think that was something you did unless you just didn't care about getting merc'd.


Well technically a Pokemon with the Klutz ability would be like using a Pokemon without a battle item. 

:33


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## Aduro (Sep 30, 2014)

Introvert said:


> If anything belongs in Ubers it's that retarded sword ghost. You can't even hit that thing half the time. Besides Houndoom isn't the only check for Mewtwo. What about choice scarf Greninja? It would make Life Orb Greninja less commonplace therefore balancing out OU even more so!
> 
> Remember this is base Mewtwo we are talking about. Not Mega Mewtwo or Life Orb Mewtwo. Free Itemless Mewtwo!!!!!



Itemless Mewtwo can still OHKO Greninja with thunderbolt or aura sphere guaranteed but Greninja doesn't even OHKO with life orb and dark pulse.


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## lacey (Sep 30, 2014)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> Pretty much everything is _very beatable_ these days.
> 
> Hell, you can defeat a lvl 100 Arceus with a lvl 1 Smeargle.
> 
> I guess that means Smeargle and Arceus should switch places.


Smeargle's in a class all his own. He doesn't fit in a tier, he _makes_ a tier.


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## Aduro (Sep 30, 2014)

Jubey said:


> Smeargle's in a class all his own. He doesn't fit in a tier, he _makes_ a tier.



He brings the FEAR to battle as well as any rattata.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Sep 30, 2014)

Aduro said:


> He brings the FEAR to battle as well as any rattata.



Do you even Splash, bro?


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## Jυstin (Oct 18, 2014)

Deoxys-A gets absolutely destroyed by Sableye, no matter what. Usually without taking a hit.

If Fake Out just does 1/4 of Deoxys-A's max HP, Shadow Sneak will finish the job. Deoxys-A's Extremespeed can't touch Sableye.

This is Diamond/Pearl Sableye, btw, which I'm pretty sure is NU. UU at best.

Should Deoxys-A be lowered to OU or UU because of that?


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## Deputy Myself (Oct 22, 2014)

Kyogre is walled to death by Shedinja, a PU shitmon
Kyogre is literally trash

Pokemon have counters, more news at 11


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## Mashiba Ryō (Oct 22, 2014)

Deputy Myself said:


> Kyogre is walled to death by Shedinja, a PU shitmon
> Kyogre is literally trash
> 
> Pokemon have counters, more news at 11



If anything that just proves Shedinja should be Uber. It's immune to most attacks!


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## Yami Munesanzun (Oct 22, 2014)

Introvert said:


> If anything that just proves Shedinja should be Uber. It's immune to most attacks!



and has 1 hit point.

and can be taken out by 2 of the 4 weather conditions; and by burn or poison or hitting itself in confusion.

and can be skill swap'd to its second death. or Moldbreaker'd


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## Mashiba Ryō (Oct 22, 2014)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> and has 1 hit point.
> 
> and can be taken out by 2 of the 4 weather conditions; and by burn or poison or hitting itself in confusion.
> 
> and can be skill swap'd to its second death. or Moldbreaker'd



Weather got nerfed in 6th gen tho. Plus with a focus sash it can survive 1 super effective hit, giving it time to setup and sweep. I'm not arguing for Shedinja anyway. I only seek justice for Mewtwo!


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## Naruto (Oct 22, 2014)

Pok?mon are placed in tiers based on how well they fill their role(s) compared to other Pok?mon. That means type effectiveness, stat distribution and available movepool.

At 154 spatk and 130 speed Mewtwo is a monster special sweeper on stats alone, and nothing in OU really comes close. He has access to Psystrike, Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, Ice Beam, Fire Blast, Energy Ball, the list goes on forever. His coverage is insanely powerful and accurate. He also gets Recover and Calm Mind.

If he was in overused you basically wouldn't see another special sweeper unless his typing would be a crippling weakness in a particular team setup.

Think about it this way:

When making a team to fight in Ubers, which Pok?mon do you seriously consider? If a Pok?mon is simply outclassed at everything he does by someone else, then you can bring him down a tier.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Oct 22, 2014)

Introvert said:


> Weather got nerfed in 6th gen tho.Plus with a focus sash it can survive 1 super effective hit, giving it time to setup and sweep



Doesn't matter because sandstorm and hail.


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## babaGAReeb (Oct 23, 2014)

if u use this set mewtwo is balanced

Mewtwo
item:toxic orb
nature:adamant
EV's: 0

confusion
brick break
amnesia
toxic

i have tested it against non-uber team

Source

i have tested an entire balanced ubers team proving that all ubers can be balanced and allowed in OU

u jus need stuff like HP fire kyogre and burn orb timid groudon


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## Jυstin (Oct 23, 2014)

Introvert said:


> If anything that just proves Shedinja should be Uber. It's immune to most attacks!



Shedinja might be able to destroy Kyogre, and it can be scary in some situations, but overall it's not Uber level. It's all about how a Pokemon does overall.

Shedinja is destroyed by Sand or Hail, which you'll see in a some Uber battles. It's also wrecked by Stealth Rock (and maybe Spikes?), which are all over Ubers. Toxic and other passive damage will destroy it too. Focus Sash doesn't prevent any of this.

Also Quagsire doesn't do too bad against Kyogre. It sponges Water and Electric moves, and most Kyogre only use Surf/Hydro Pump/Water Spout, Thunder, and Ice Beam. But Kyogre, like Mewtwo, is still powerful as fuck.

If i had Y, I'd run a bit more of a bulky Mewtwo-Y. Something with Bulk Up, Drain Punch, Psystrike/Psychic, and Shadow Ball. His Sp.Atk is high enough as is, so Bulk Up is awesome for buffing its DEF, and making its already pretty high Mewtwo-Y ATK even higher, so Drain Punch becomes viable for the perfect Fighting/Ghost coverage, and it heals him.

And since this Mewtwo would use Bulk Up, Sucker Punch won't work, and then it's free to tank a Sucker Punch easily while one-shotting with Drain Punch and getting almost all its HP back. This is a simple strategy, but Mewtwo-Y can pull it off like only an Uber can.


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## Shanks (Nov 18, 2014)

He's already too strong.


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