# Kizaru vs Aokiji



## Shanks (Aug 23, 2013)

I believe no one's looked at this previously but we know we want to talk about it.

*Location*: Punk Hazard

*Mindset*: Blood lust


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 23, 2013)

Aokiji cause I said so.


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## Shanks (Aug 23, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Aokiji cause I said so.



I'll go with Kizaru because I said so.


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## Lawliet (Aug 23, 2013)

Kizaru = the strongest admiral ever


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## Zorofangirl24 (Aug 23, 2013)

Kizaru > Akainu > Aokiji > Kizaru

Aokiji's ice will reflect his blinding light, he is a bad matchup for Kizaru.


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## Snowless (Aug 23, 2013)

Going solely by portrayal, Aokiji would win.


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## Bitty (Aug 23, 2013)

Aokiji extreme diff.


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## DeathPony (Aug 23, 2013)

Kuzan smacks him out of his high.


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## trance (Aug 23, 2013)

Kuzan extreme difficulty.


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## Shinthia (Aug 23, 2013)

ararara because he is cool


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## Beckman (Aug 23, 2013)

50/50   **


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## Orca (Aug 23, 2013)

They are all equals. Atleast that's how they have been shown.


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## Vengeance (Aug 23, 2013)

Kizaru has the potential to be stronger, so bloodlusted Kizaru takes it in a very close one I think.
But I doubt we will ever see Kizaru in this mood. Both in character Kuzan takes it after a long fight.


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## Goomoonryong (Aug 23, 2013)

Never understood why some people think Kizaru is the weakest Preskip admiral IMO the only admiral that's been portrayed above the others is Akainu, that aside could go either way.


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## Mys??lf (Aug 23, 2013)

can go either way


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## Urouge (Aug 23, 2013)

Benn Beckman said:


> 50/50   **



This the only correct answer. It could go either way it's too close to call.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 23, 2013)

Aokiji fought the strongest Admiral for what? 10 days? 
His feats>Kizaru. 
And lol@admirals being portrayed as equals.


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## Shinthia (Aug 23, 2013)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Aokiji fought the strongest Admiral for what? 10 days?
> His feats>Kizaru.
> *And lol@admirals being portrayed as equals.*


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## Slenderman (Aug 23, 2013)

I'm going to say Aokiji high-extreme difficulty but in the future it could change.


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## Mihawk (Aug 23, 2013)

Kizaru extreme difficulty, or goes either way, with both winning five out of ten times.

I do not believe he was the weakest of the 3, if you have to compare them, and if i were forced to choose one, it'd be him.

Portrayal doesn't favor Kuzan over him by any means, just because Kizaru was not a candidate for FA, or just because he does not have his own subplot like Aokiji did with Robin. 

If we are talking about portrayal, then look at the way Kizaru has always faced the first mates, like Beckman, Rayleigh, Zoro, and Marco, while Kuzan dealt with Jozu in the war.

But that is neither here or there, so the basis with which i am using to argue in Kizaru's favor, or rather, to argue against the notion that he is the weakest of the 3, is based on the fact that amongst 3 combatants of marginally equal stats, I will find it surprising if Kuzan is the one who has the marginal edge over Kizaru, when the latter joined the marines the same day as Akainu, while Kuzan joined years later, only for Borsalino to somehow be marginally weaker. 

Also, Kizaru has apparently gotten stronger over the timeskip, so you know that amongst two men of such equal stature, any growth or improvement gives a slight advantage.

This is in no way a downplay of Aokiji's abilities, as he is my favorite of the 3 Admirals.


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## Extravlad (Aug 23, 2013)

Kuzan extrem diff.


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## Giocatser (Aug 23, 2013)

Zorofangirl24 said:


> Kizaru > Akainu > Aokiji > Kizaru
> 
> Aokiji's ice will reflect his blinding light, he is a bad matchup for Kizaru.




I second this: "Aokiji's ice will reflect his blinding light", but I think Akainu > Kizaru and Akainu > Aokiji.

This fight (Kizaru vs Aokiji) would be 50/50.

I would bet for Kizaru this time!


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## JoJo (Aug 23, 2013)

50/50 but in the end it will be extreme diff for the both of them.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 23, 2013)

Jokes aside Kizaru wins.

Aokiji lost a leg, and sorry aokiji fans but a ice leg is not a proper replacement.

Kizaru wins extreme diffculty.


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## Marik Swift (Aug 23, 2013)

As mentioned, I'd give it to Kizaru because of age. For the admirals I think Oda might be going with their age as their power rankings, thus it's: Kizaru>Akainu>Aokiji.​


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## Sayonara (Aug 23, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Jokes aside Kizaru wins.
> 
> Aokiji lost a leg, and sorry aokiji fans but a ice leg is not a proper replacement.
> 
> Kizaru wins extreme diffculty.



I would say that was true at first but you cant rule out that someone of Aokiji calibre couldn't have overcome the problem in 2 years it isn't like its just an ice peg  he substituted it with a material he has complete mastery over, his leg is still part of him. With exception of BB and seastone it might not be weakness others could exploit.

If he couldn't do that I'd agree with you but otherwise I'd suspect Aokiji is stronger solely because experience he gained in that 10 day battle Akainu.

Either Way I would expect high-extreme Difficulty.


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## Dexx (Aug 23, 2013)

> Kizaru>Akainu



        .


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## Giocatser (Aug 23, 2013)

Marik Swift said:


> As mentioned, I'd give it to Kizaru because of age. For the admirals I think Oda might be going with their age as their power rankings, thus it's: Kizaru>Akainu>Aokiji.​




Kizaru > Akainu..

... Surely that's why Kizaru is the new Fleet Admiral.. And Akainu is his subordinate.. right?


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## Lawliet (Aug 23, 2013)

Giocatser said:


> Kizaru > Akainu..
> 
> ... Surely that's why Kizaru is the new Fleet Admiral.. And Akainu is his subordinate.. right?



Garp > Sengoku. Just saying.


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## Rob (Aug 23, 2013)

I feel like Kizaru would take this. 

They should be around the same level, but I view the Admirals like this, as of right now: Akainu>Kizaru>Aokiji>Fujitora

The only reason I view Kizaru to be slightly stronger is because of an elemental advantage, and nothing else. Seeing as, if we took DF's out, they should be roughly the same exact level.


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## Giocatser (Aug 23, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Garp > Sengoku. Just saying.




Nobody in One Piece stated Kizaru > Akainu, unlike about Garp. Just saying.. 

How Kizaru is suposed to be > than Akainu? We saw him fighting against Raylegh and Z. His speed was not decisive at all, since Raylegh and Z can follow/withstand his moves. 

His lasers can't affect Akainu and if Kizaru tries to kick Akainu, he gets burnt (by other side, Akainu would be able to endure his kicks like other much weaker characters were able to do). How Kizarus is > than Akainu?


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## Lawliet (Aug 23, 2013)

I'm not saying Kizaru is actually stronger than Akainu. I'm just saying your argument is just absurd. I don't recall the Manga stating that Garp is actually stronger than Sengoku, but the majority agrees on it because of Garp's achievements. 

Same thing could be applied in here, just because Akainu is the fleet admiral, that does not automatically put him above Kizaru, strength wise. For all we know, Kizaru might be okay with his position, just like Garp.


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## Giocatser (Aug 23, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> I'm not saying Kizaru is actually stronger than Akainu. I'm just saying your argument is just absurd. I don't recall the Manga stating that Garp is actually stronger than Sengoku, but the majority agrees on it because of Garp's achievements.
> 
> Same thing could be applied in here, just because Akainu is the fleet admiral, that does not automatically put him above Kizaru, strength wise. For all we know, Kizaru might be okay with his position, just like Garp.




In the third OVA (I think) someone asks to Garp why he refuses a better position in the Marine, and Garp answers that he refuses it just because is not interested. 

But, yes, you're right. Akainu is not > than kizaru because of his new positon in the Marine, this would be an absurd argument (I know).. Akainu is stronger than Kizaru because of what we have seen about these two (because of feats). I don't see Kizaru beating Akainu.. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so!

EDIT: It's Aokiji who asks him (to Garp) if he has refused an ascent again?


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## Giocatser (Aug 23, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Garp > Sengoku. Just saying.




By the way, my "argument" related with their position in the Marine, was stupid because I wanted to reply, what I consider, a low-level argument. 



			
				Marik Swift; said:
			
		

> As mentioned, I'd give it to Kizaru because of age. For the admirals I think Oda might be going with their age as their power rankings, thus it's: Kizaru>Akainu>Aokiji.




I reserve my high-level arguments to refute the high-level ones someone else's.


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## barreltheif (Aug 23, 2013)

Aokiji has better feats because he fought equally for 10 days with Akainu, who inflicted fatal damage to WB and had an advantage against all WB commanders - Jozu. Aokiji also decisively defeated Jozu without much difficulty, while Kizaru couldn't even damage Marco without help.
Akainu=Aokiji>Kizaru.




Marik Swift said:


> As mentioned, I'd give it to Kizaru because of age. For the admirals I think Oda might be going with their age as their power rankings, thus it's: Kizaru>Akainu>Aokiji.​




Uh, what? Kizaru is 58, while Aokiji is 49. You don't seriously think that 58 year olds are in general stronger than 49 year olds? If anything, age would be on Aokiji's side.


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## jNdee~ (Aug 23, 2013)

Marco's defense is superior to Jozu just to let you know.


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## barreltheif (Aug 23, 2013)

Battousai said:


> Marco's defense is superior to Jozu just to let you know.




Yes. But it's not so much better that someone would be likely to beat Jozu with low/mid difficulty and then need help to even hurt Marco at all. Akainu in Kizaru's position would probably have beaten Marco without assistance.


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## jNdee~ (Aug 23, 2013)

Kizaru would beat Marco too, in the same diff that Akainiu will.

Don't compare Aokiji to them and the way he beats people, Aokiji only need to have contact with you to freeze you to death, while the other can't bypass any defense to defeat both Jaws and Marco


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## Lawliet (Aug 23, 2013)

Giocatser said:


> In the third OVA (I think) someone asks to Garp why he refuses a better position in the Marine, and Garp answers that he refuses it just because is not interested.
> 
> But, yes, you're right. Akainu is not > than kizaru because of his new positon in the Marine, this would be an absurd argument (I know).. Akainu is stronger than Kizaru because of what we have seen about these two (because of feats). I don't see Kizaru beating Akainu.. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so!
> 
> EDIT: It's Aokiji who asks him (to Garp) if he has refused an ascent again?




I know what scene/panel you're talking about. Garp wanted the freedom. He could have the freedom he want as a VA, admiral position would just strict him to more things which means less freedom. 

I'm not trying to argue who's stronger, but I was just giving my point about the matter. Besides, Oda said Kizaru got stronger during the timeskip, if he was already an admiral level, and now we find out that he even got stronger during the timeskip, how strong is he right now? I would not be surprised at all if Kizaru happened to be the strongest admiral. But if we're going by portrayal ? Akainu is the strongest.


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## barreltheif (Aug 23, 2013)

Battousai said:


> Kizaru would beat Marco too, in the same diff that Akainiu will.
> 
> Don't compare Aokiji to them and the way he beats people, Aokiji only need to have contact with you to freeze you to death, while the other can't bypass any defense to defeat both Jaws and Marco




Right, Aokiji freezes people easily, allowing him to bypass defenses. That's exactly why he'd have an easier time against Marco than Kizaru did. And that's the biggest reason why Aokiji>Kizaru.


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## jNdee~ (Aug 23, 2013)

I won't comment on that.


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## Mangeykou Byakugan (Aug 23, 2013)

Speed is weight, my friend

Kizaru high-extreme difficulty



Giocatser said:


> Nobody in One Piece stated Kizaru > Akainu, unlike about Garp. Just saying..



The reverse isn't true either



> How Kizaru is suposed to be > than Akainu? We saw him fighting against Raylegh and Z. His speed was not decisive at all, since Raylegh and Z can follow/withstand his moves.



Z was a former Admiral and Rayleigh was the PK first mate. You're severly underestimating the strongest men of their time who were still pretty strong when Kizaru fought them



> His lasers can't affect Akainu and if Kizaru tries to kick Akainu, he gets burnt (by other side, Akainu would be able to endure his kicks like other much weaker characters were able to do). How Kizarus is > than Akainu?



Akainu's magma can't Kizaru unless he imbues Haki into it, which it isn't unreasonable to say Kizaru can do the same with his lasers.

Kizaru is just as strong and faster than Akainu by feats

Kizaru getting burnt is about as likely as Akainu getting blinded and sliced up with a light sword

. Akainu isn't just going to shrug off one of those

And Kizaru's endurance should be in same ballpark as Akainu's
He just doesn't get hit as much because he faster and is an avoid-type fighter rather than an tank-type fighter



barreltheif said:


> Aokiji has better feats because he fought equally for 10 days with Akainu, who inflicted fatal damage to WB and had an advantage against all WB commanders - Jozu. Aokiji also decisively defeated Jozu without much difficulty, while Kizaru couldn't even damage Marco without help.
> Akainu=Aokiji>Kizaru.



You mean Kizaru couldn't replicate the same thing that Aokiji did or do better?

 and had an 

(But he couldn't seriously damage due to his regeneration)

Which isn't bad since no Admiral could really damage him during the war

Kizaru>=Akainu>=Aokiji


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 23, 2013)

LMAO

Kizaru inflicting fatal damage to White-beard.


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## Marik Swift (Aug 23, 2013)

God, some of you really don't understand the meaning of a opinion. When did I say that it was written in stone that Kizaru>Akainu. I simply drew the conclusion cause it seems quite likely that the admirals strength to each other is possibly dependent on their ages.

@Barrel
God, Read before posting. I said the admirals, when did I say it was some kind of general fact?

And  at the argument that Akainu's position automatically makes him the strongest of the three. By that logic, Bonney must be stronger than Zoro cause her bounty is higher.

Again, by feats, Akainu is obviously superior, but sometimes I prefer to see legitimate feats from everyone before jumping to conclusion, and so for now I stick with the most likely scenario, which is that age is the factor in their strengths.​


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## trance (Aug 23, 2013)

Giocatser said:


> Kizaru > Akainu..
> 
> ... Surely that's why Kizaru is the new Fleet Admiral.. And Akainu is his subordinate.. right?



The Fleet Admiral is the overall leader of the Marines, as such their word is law unless opposed by the top tiers of the WG. The position needs someone who embodies great leadership and exceptional intelligence more than raw power.


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## Mangeykou Byakugan (Aug 23, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> LMAO
> 
> Kizaru inflicting fatal damage to White-beard.



Yes. It is fatal damage to an average person to an average pirate/marine

But WB is one of the most durable beings in One Piece

He can take a lot more than even your Average Top Tier

Anyways, I meant it was fatal damage in a sense that it would be enough to kill someone; not necessarily WB himself or any top tier for that matter

No top tier should be able to fatally injure another top tier with their most basic generic move unless the damage accumulates

Even Marco, Jozu, and Doflo should be able to survive standard moves from Admirals/ Yonko


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## barreltheif (Aug 24, 2013)

Marik Swift said:


> @Barrel
> God, Read before posting. I said the admirals, when did I say it was some kind of general fact?​





You said that Kizaru is stronger than Akainu because he is older. That would imply that being 58 gives you an advantage over being 49, which is ridiculous. If you really think that age is an important factor, then you should be saying that Aokiji>Kizaru.





Mangeykou Byakugan said:


> You mean Kizaru couldn't replicate the same thing that Aokiji did or do better?




I mean that in Kizaru's situation, Aokiji could have defeated Marco without help from an ally.




> and had an




LOL. Akainu inflicted damage that was fatal to WB. Kizaru obviously did not. Don't try to play some silly semantics game when it's clear what I mean. Kizaru certainly did not take on Marco+Vista+commanders 6-16 all at once.




> (But he couldn't seriously damage due to his regeneration)
> 
> Which isn't bad since no Admiral could really damage him during the war




I agree with the claim that no admiral *did* damage him during the war, but I disagree with the claim that the no admiral *could *have damaged him. If Aokiji froze him at close range, Marco would've been finished.​


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## Coruscation (Aug 24, 2013)

They're close enough that it can go either way. Advantage Aokiji in my books since he is the one who had a ten day fight against another Admiral. When Akainu and Aokiji were *that* close it's almost ridiculous to think Kizaru fits in between them in power. Kizaru and Aokiji's powers don't counter each other in the same way though so I don't think it would last as long. Kizaru has the most sheer power and destructiveness of the Admirals while Aokiji is more lethal. Whoever wins it will end faster than heat vs. cold.


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## Mangeykou Byakugan (Aug 24, 2013)

barreltheif said:


> I mean that in Kizaru's situation, Aokiji could have defeated Marco without help from an ally.



1. YOUR ARGUMENT IS BASELESS
2. Aokiji wouldnt be able to freeze Marco from that distance Kizaru was at
3. He needed Jozu to be distracted to find an opening to freeze him
 4.Doflamingo escaped Aokiji ice w/ his back turned why cant Marco?
5. Marco would regenerate

Aokiji needs an opponent to be occupied or distracted to freeze them(WB, Jozu,Doflamingo)

Since he or his attacks arent that fast

 Marco has many options against Aokijis ice
He can avoid, use Haki, or regenerate

No different from any other admiral

Never mind hes faster than Aokiji anyway





> LOL. Akainu inflicted damage that was fatal to WB Kizaru obviously did not. Don't try to play some silly semantics game when it's clear what I mean. Kizaru certainly did not take on Marco+Vista+commanders 6-16 all at once.



Akainu killed WB? If it didn't kill him, it wasnt fatal

Kizaru didnt do fatal damage and neither did Akainu
By your logic, Squadro damage was fatal as well 

And Akainu didnt take on all WB Commanders either 

He stood up to like 11 but he only fought Curiel on panel




> I agree with the claim that no admiral *did* damage him during the war, but I disagree with the claim that the no admiral *could *have damaged him. If Aokiji froze him at close range, Marco would've been finished.



He can just regenerate

Like Doflamingo was, right?


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## Shanks (Aug 24, 2013)

How does Aokiji freeze fire let alone phoenix fire?

The only reason people see Aokiji as been on the same level as the other Admirals is because of that 10 days clash, however on panel feats Kizaru overwhelm's Aokiji's feats.


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## barreltheif (Aug 24, 2013)

sparklingwater said:


> How does Aokiji freeze fire let alone phoenix fire?
> The only reason people see Aokiji as been on the same level as the other Admirals is because of that 10 days clash, however on panel feats Kizaru overwhelm's Aokiji's feats.




Aokiji freezes fire in the same way that Akainu burns fire. With his DF powers.
Off panel feats are feats. They still happened.




Mangeykou Byakugan said:


> 1. YOUR ARGUMENT IS BASELESS
> 2. Aokiji wouldnt be able to freeze Marco from that distance Kizaru was at




Kizaru touched Marco. That's obviously close enough for Aokiji to freeze Marco.
How is it baseless to say that since Marco can't regenerate against being frozen, Aokii would do better than Kizaru against Marco?




> 4.Doflamingo escaped Aokiji ice w/ his back turned why cant Marco?




For the same reason Jozu couldn't: because Aokiji would actually touch him.




> 5. Marco would regenerate




Regenerate from being frozen? wut




> Akainu killed WB? If it didn't kill him, it wasnt fatal
> Kizaru didnt do fatal damage and neither did Akainu
> By your logic, Squadro damage was fatal as well




Losing nearly half of your brain is fatal. Having a small hole (small compared to the size of your body) put through your chest isn't necessarily fatal if you're WB.




> And Akainu didnt take on all WB Commanders either
> He stood up to like 11 but he only fought Curiel on panel




He fought Marco, Vista, and 11 other commanders and severely damaged one of them.


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## PiPiHanderson (Aug 24, 2013)

Apart from being much faster than Aokiji, which would benefit Kizaru of not getting encased from Aokiji's Ice age, he can simply spam an abundance of laser thereafter Aokiji uses his Ice. Now, this would halt Aokiji's ice from reaching Kizaru and would render Aokiji's attack futile. Also, Kizaru's laser's were hot enough to melt steel within seconds. Steel is much more potent than ice in terms of density, therefore, Kizaru wouldn't have a hard time melting Aokiji's Ice with his lasers. Yasakani no magatama, which is a versatile attack, would spread wide enough for kizaru to completely make Aokiji's ice seem a non-threat.


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## PiPiHanderson (Aug 24, 2013)

Apart from being much faster than Aokiji, which would benefit Kizaru of not getting encased from Aokiji's Ice age, he can simply spam an abundance of laser thereafter Aokiji uses his Ice. Now, this would halt Aokiji's ice from reaching Kizaru and would render Aokiji's attack futile. Also, Kizaru's laser's were hot enough to melt steel within seconds. Steel is much more potent than ice in terms of density, therefore, Kizaru wouldn't have a hard time melting Aokiji's Ice with his lasers. Yasakani no magatama, which is a versatile attack, would spread wide enough for kizaru to completely make Aokiji's ice seem a non-threat. As for my opinion: I think that Aokiji has the biggest disadvantage compared to the other 2 Admirals. I like them all, especially Aokiji?s Ice. However, it has its natural weakness against anything that is hot: Fire, Magma, Lightning and I think also Light.
But he still managed to fight Akainu for 10 days so he must have other strong abilities and is not really dependent on his DF. As in admiral himself, Kizaru's stamina shouldn't be a farcries to Aokiji, for they're both admirals which the latter implies that they, more or less, have got the same capabilities. Impossible to tell who wins unless we get more feats from them...Current Aokiji would most likely lose though because of the damages he got from fighting Akainu.


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## Giocatser (Aug 24, 2013)

Mangeykou Byakugan said:


> Z was a former Admiral and Rayleigh was the PK first mate. You're severly underestimating the strongest men of their time who were still pretty strong when Kizaru fought them
> 
> Akainu's magma can't Kizaru unless he imbues Haki into it, which it isn't unreasonable to say Kizaru can do the same with his lasers.
> 
> ...




1-I'm underestimating the strongest men of their time because I'm comparing them to, what I consider, the strongest admiral currently?
I'm saying if they are capable of withstand Kizaru's movements (when they are old) how Akainu, who I consider the strongest of trio and younger than Z and Rayleigh, couldn't do the same?

2-I have not said that Akainu is capable to hurt Kizaru.. (I will no comment on that) I'm just saying that Kizaru can't hurt Akainu and if he can, can't do this without be injured by burns.

3-Kizaru is faster than Akainu because of his DF (by feats)
Akainu is phisically stronger than Kizaru (by feats and is obvious)
Akainu can attack with the strenght of a volcano's eruption because of his DF(by feats)
Akainu is more indefatigable than Kizaru (by feats)
Akainu has more endurance than Kizaru (by feats)
Akainu's body can melt everything without moving (by feats)
Akainu has a higher level of Haki than Kizaru (probably)

4-Ok, then Kizaru couldn't breath because of the high temperatures and toxic gases of the magma. His eyes, skin and lungs would get burned.
By the way, Akainu was able to dodge haki imbued attacks from Marco and Vista without effort. In the same way that he would do against Kuzaru's light sword.

5-Yeah.. Surely Akainu is able to melt all underground materials of Marineford but he isn't capable of destroying a mangrove.. It has no sense..


EDIT: 6- Akainu >= Kizaru >= Aokiji (In my opinion...)




Trance said:


> The Fleet Admiral is the overall leader of the Marines, as such their word is law unless opposed by the top tiers of the WG. The position needs someone who embodies great leadership and exceptional intelligence more than raw power.




I'm agree with you but I think Akainu has these 2 things at the same time. In my opinion, he is the strongest and is the natural leader (of the trio) with an exceptional intelligence.


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## trance (Aug 24, 2013)

sparklingwater said:


> How does Aokiji freeze fire let alone phoenix fire?
> 
> The only reason people see Aokiji as been on the same level as the other Admirals is because of that 10 days clash,* however on panel feats Kizaru overwhelm's Aokiji's feats*.



Are you fucking kidding me? 

Kuzan easily froze two giant tsunamis by jumping hundreds of meters in the air in a fraction of the second as well as the entire Marineford bay, was able to tank a kick to the stomach from Marco with no injuries, freeze several miles of water in an instant, was able to counter a direct attack by WB by skillfully using his Haki and Logia and was about to attack had it not been for Jozu...then he managed to freeze DD with a unnamed, generic freezing attack (and DD's hand was literally inches away from ending smoking)...plus his Haki shield combo with Sakazuki and Kizaru...

Sorry but his on panel feats are just as good as Kizaru's...


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## jNdee~ (Aug 24, 2013)

Marco's fire wasn't even meant for damage. What the fuck people.


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## Vengeance (Aug 24, 2013)

Can't you guys just agree that the admirals are pretty much equals?


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## Giocatser (Aug 24, 2013)

Dawn said:


> Can't you guys just agree that the admirals are pretty much equals?




You're right, they are pretty much equals..


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## Bansai (Aug 24, 2013)

I personally think Aokiji can win this, but really, it can turn out either way.


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## Shanks (Aug 24, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> Are you fucking kidding me?
> 
> Kuzan easily froze two giant tsunamis by jumping hundreds of meters in the air in a fraction of the second as well as the entire Marineford bay, was able to tank a kick to the stomach from Marco with no injuries, freeze several miles of water in an instant, was able to counter a direct attack by WB by skillfully using his Haki and Logia and was about to attack had it not been for Jozu...then he managed to freeze DD with a unnamed, generic freezing attack (and DD's hand was literally inches away from ending smoking)...plus his Haki shield combo with Sakazuki and Kizaru...
> 
> Sorry but his on panel feats are just as good as Kizaru's...



 Aokiji"s ice was impressive. But don't forget how it was reduced to nothing when Kizaru was after Law"s sub.


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## trance (Aug 24, 2013)

sparklingwater said:


> Aokiji"s ice was impressive. But don't forget how it was reduced to nothing when Kizaru was after Law"s sub.



Irrelevant.

Ace's fire melted Kuzan's ice but Kuzan's ice could equal Sakazuki's magma for ten straight days...


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## Shanks (Aug 24, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> Irrelevant.
> 
> Ace's fire melted Kuzan's ice but Kuzan's ice could equal Sakazuki's magma for ten straight days...



Irrelevant.

Aokiji's sabre snap in 2 from a kick from Macro , but Kizaru's sword matched Dark King's haki infused sword.


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## jNdee~ (Aug 24, 2013)

sparklingwater said:


> But don't forget how it was reduced to nothing when Kizaru was after Law"s sub.



What does this mean?


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## trance (Aug 24, 2013)

sparklingwater said:


> Irrelevant.
> 
> Aokiji's sabre snap in 2 from a kick from Macro , but Kizaru's sword matched Dark King's haki infused sword.



Again, irrelevant. Kuzan was targetting Luffy.

But, you failed to see what I was talking about.

Just think, if Ace's fire could equal Kuzan's ice but lose to Sakazuki, that means Kuzan's ice should lose Sakazuki's magma (and his ice was melted by his magma) but going by his ten day duel, he was able to equal his magma, otherwise, there'd be no ice on PH and Kuzan's Haki likely isn't enough to protect his ice from melting against the magma if his maximum output was only equal to Ace's fire which was godstomped by magma.

So, from this, I firmly believe (and it's _very_ possible) that Kuzan can control his ice and make it much stronger (or colder, if you will) than the ice he used at MF.


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## Slenderman (Aug 24, 2013)

sparklingwater said:


> How does Aokiji freeze fire let alone phoenix fire?
> 
> The only reason people see Aokiji as been on the same level as the other Admirals is because of that 10 days clash, however on panel feats Kizaru overwhelm's Aokiji's feats.



 Oda said in a SBS that Marco's pheonix fire is for is regeneration. The fire isn't hot.


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## eyeknockout (Aug 25, 2013)

aokiji wins extreme difficulty. he's just stronger

even after the timeskip it would make more sense for aokiji to have improved more than kizaru since an ex admiral without the security of the marines will definitely have more people after his life then an admiral protected by a whole fleet alongside the world government if needed. so I believe aokiji's had to fight more than kizaru over the timeskip.


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## White (Aug 25, 2013)

Aokiji low-mid diff. Kizaru got his arse handed to him by Marco no way is he winning.


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## Impact (Aug 25, 2013)

No ones wins


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## Orca (Aug 25, 2013)

Snarl said:


> Aokiji low-mid diff. Kizaru got his arse handed to him by Marco no way is he winning.



:sanji  low diff?


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## trance (Aug 25, 2013)

Snarl said:


> Aokiji low-mid diff. *Kizaru got his arse handed to him by Marco no way is he winning.*



Obvious troll is obvious.


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## White (Aug 25, 2013)

Luffee said:


> :sanji  low diff?



Its more on the higher of low midd difficulty.


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## Shanks (Aug 25, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> Again, irrelevant. Kuzan was targetting Luffy.
> 
> But, you failed to see what I was talking about.
> 
> ...



I see what you are talking about, but I simply response with a 1 feat argument been "irrelevant" to counter your 1 feat argument as "irrelevant".

The only argument for Aokiji been stronger is the 10 days feat with Akainu... and it's getting repetitive and old.

For all we know, Kizaru could take the victory with extreme difficulties whether with Aokiji or Akainu bases on all the reasons explained by above posters.


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## trance (Aug 25, 2013)

sparklingwater said:


> I see what you are talking about, but I simply response with a 1 feat argument been "irrelevant" to counter your 1 feat argument as "irrelevant".
> 
> The only argument for Aokiji been stronger is the 10 days feat with Akainu... and it's getting repetitive and old.
> 
> For all we know, Kizaru could take the victory with extreme difficulties whether with Aokiji or Akainu bases on all the reasons explained by above posters.



The Admirals have been portrayed as being overall equal to each other with miniscule difference between them.

I first quoted you when you said Kizaru's on panel feats > Kuzan's on panels feats which was wrong as both have feats on par with each other as I stated above...

It's fine if you think Kizaru can win extreme difficulty but no less than that...


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## Language of Life (Aug 25, 2013)

Im gonna say they tie.


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## Shanks (Aug 26, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> The Admirals have been portrayed as being overall equal to each other with miniscule difference between them.
> 
> I first quoted you when you said Kizaru's on panel feats > Kuzan's on panels feats which was wrong as both have feats on par with each other as I stated above...
> 
> It's fine if you think Kizaru can win extreme difficulty but no less than that...



You've been replying with only off panel feats - 10 days match up with Akainu and strength speculations based on that feat, but no on panel feats.

So far, I responded with 1) Yasakani no Magatama destroying Ice Age and 2) Light Sword being more versatile that Ice Saber.

There have also been many others above us who stated things like 1) Aokiji only has 1 leg now, 2) Aokiji is slower, 3) Aokiji was match up with Jozo, while Kizaru's been match up with first mates (Rayleigh, Ben Beckmen, Macro, etc),... 

Coloured Trio are portrayed as more or less even, but it doesn't change the fact that Akainu being the victor over Aokiji in an extreme 10 days battle, hence making Akainu stronger than Aokiji (whether by a margin or not).


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## Mangeykou Byakugan (Aug 26, 2013)

Yea somehow freezing tsunamis and bodies of water just doesn't come off as impressive to me
Espicially since they don't fight back

And Kizaru looked more impressive vs Marco and WB than Aokiji vs Marco and Jozu

Marco and Jozu pretty much punched him around w/o resistance
Aokiji needed a open from a distraction to defeat Jozu
They were fighting evenly before that 

So were Kizaru and Marco
But Marco>=Jozu anyway so I'm more impressed with Kizarus feat

When it comes down to it, from *FEATS *shown, Aokiji is probably the weakest of 3 admirals
Followed by Kizaru and Akainu being more impressive throughout the war


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## trance (Aug 26, 2013)

sparklingwater said:


> You've been replying with only off panel feats - 10 days match up with Akainu and strength speculations based on that feat, but *no on panel feats.*





> Kuzan easily froze two giant tsunamis by jumping hundreds of meters in the air in a fraction of the second as well as the entire Marineford bay, was able to tank a kick to the stomach from Marco with no injuries, freeze several miles of water in an instant, was able to counter a direct attack by WB by skillfully using his Haki and Logia and was about to attack had it not been for Jozu...then he managed to freeze DD with a unnamed, generic freezing attack (and DD's hand was literally inches away from ending smoking)...plus his Haki shield combo with Sakazuki and Kizaru...



All on panel feats...



> So far, I responded with 1) Yasakani no Magatama destroying Ice Age



Marco tanked YnM with no trouble, so you must think Marco's regeneration > Kuzan's ice...



> and 2)* Light Sword being more versatile that Ice Saber.*



Baseless assumption.



> There have also been many others above us who stated things like *1) Aokiji only has 1 leg now, *



Pure speculation. Shanks has one arm but still retained all of his strength...

Also, Kuzan has a prosthetic ice leg...



> 2) Aokiji is slower,



In movement speed, yes but Rayleigh was also slower and he was clearly holding his own...



> 3) Aokiji was match up with Jozo, while Kizaru's been match up with first mates (Rayleigh, Ben Beckmen, Macro, etc),...



This part is just ridiculous... 

You honestly think just because he was matched with someone a bit lower down the food chain, he can't handle these guys, because that's what it implies... 

And Kizaru didn't even fight Benn Beckman, so bringing him up is pointless...



> Coloured Trio are portrayed as more or less even, but it doesn't change the fact that Akainu being the victor over Aokiji in an extreme 10 days battle, hence making Akainu stronger than Aokiji (whether by a margin or not).



I already posted that they were roughly equal with tiny differences between them (i.e Sakazuki and Kuzan)...but thanks for repeating it.


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