# KCM Minato vs Sage Mode Kabuto



## Ersa (Sep 27, 2013)

*Battlefield*: Killer Bee vs Sasuke
*Starting Distance*: 50 Meters
*Knowledge*: Manga (just assume Kabuto has done some research on Minato)
*Restrictions/Conditions*: 
- Bijuu Mode is restricted.
- Kabuto is only allowed to summon either 3rd Raikage, 2nd Mizukage or Muu.
- Minato is Edo Tensei but assume Kabuto can rewrite him like he was going to do to Itachi.

Scenario 2: Kabuto can summon any Edo but Madara. Only one however.


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## Jagger (Sep 27, 2013)

Honestly, what did Minato show with his KCM? His speed remained the same, he doesn't have any feats of him using powerful Rasengan or any other variation. It doesn't affect his summonings nor anything else. The only new thing he showed besides KCM/BM in this war is KB and that's something he can even do in his base mode and his jutsu keeps getting stopped by the interference of others.

KCM Minato is pretty much featless. But I'm not saying Kabuto wins, just pointing out this.


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## Rocky (Sep 29, 2013)

Jagger said:


> His speed remained the same



No it didn't. It appeared that way because his primary combat speed revolved around Hiraishin, which was already instantaneous. The Chakra Cloak elevated him physically just as all Chakra cloaks power up all Jinchuriki. Just look at Naruto, who used the _same exact cloak_.



> He doesn't have any feats of him using powerful Rasengan or any other variation.



His Ninjutsu is going to be powered by the Kyuubi Chakra too......just as all Chakra Cloaks power up all Ninjutsu. Do you notice a pattern? Don't ignore what we've seen in other examples just because we've seen limited showings from Minato. Minato's opponent was Juubi-Obito, who is a physical god in the verse.

 A small fraction of Kurama's Chakra vastly powered up the Jutsu of the alliance, such as Hinata's Air Palm & Kakashi's Kamui. It also powered the physical stats of people like Lee & the Akimichi clan. Half of Kurama is going to power up Minato _alot._ It just looks worse because his opponent was a good deal stronger than him (and everybody else).

Technically, we do have feats for Minato. His house sized Rasengan is obviously something he could not do without the aid of the Kyuubi, and that goes to show that KCM (or BM) still does boost Ninjutsu. As for his speed, he spread 4 Kunai at corners around the gargantuan Ten-Tails without anyone taking notice, which would require massive physical speed (granted it _is_ unclear whether or not he spread the Kunai in KCM or Base).


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## Trojan (Sep 29, 2013)

^

he was in base when he spread those Kunais. 

As for this match, can't Minato use his contract seal to free any edo that Kabuto use against him
and therefore, it will be Minato + edo Vs Kabuto. lol

since there is noway that the edo kage are going to  help Kabuto by their own will!


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## Csdabest (Sep 30, 2013)

Kyuubi Physical boost or not. Minato still loses due to the same reason. He has no answers to White Noise Jutsu w/o retreating. Kabuto has shown he can turn an enviornment against a user just like he did with the cave. He has his Sound genjutsu for aoe effectiveness. And minato literally has absolutely jack shit to hurt or deliver a killing blow to Kabuto unless he goes for a mutal death in shiki fujin. Now that is with out Kabuto even using Edo tensei.

Also in the first scenario Can Kabuto summon all three. Because you make a difference during the 2nd scenario saying only one can be summoned. Its crazy. Minato actually gets raped. Its a bad match up


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## Jagger (Sep 30, 2013)

Rocky said:


> No it didn't. It appeared that way because his primary combat speed revolved around Hiraishin, which was already instantaneous. The Chakra Cloak elevated him physically just as all Chakra cloaks power up all Jinchuriki. Just look at Naruto, who used the _same exact cloak_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair enough, I guess.

I guess I was wrong, so you win.


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## Rocky (Sep 30, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> He has no answers to White Noise Jutsu w/o retreating.



His answer his the same answer as always: dodge with Hiraishin. Ninjutsu usage isn't negated under Hakugeki's effects. Itachi, who is not as sturdy or durable as Cloaked Minato, was able to use his Susano'o to block Kabuto's attacks. Minato will use his teleportation to dodge them.




> Kabuto has shown he can turn an enviornment against a user just like he did with the cave.



Which does nothing in this location. The only reason Muki Tensei was effective in the cave is due to the existing stalagmites on the ground. Giving life to the flat platforms of Kumo will accomplish nothing. This is of course ignoring the fact that Minato could just negative-emotion sense the Jutsu coming and dodge to another platform.



> He has his Sound genjutsu for aoe effectiveness.



Kurama has shown to cooperate with Minato.This means that the Partner Method is available for illusion breaking. 



> And minato literally has absolutely jack shit to hurt or deliver a killing blow to Kabuto unless he goes for a mutal death in shiki fujin.



This I agree with for the most part. However, decapitation may work. Kabuto isn't immortal. If it doesn't, Minato would have to opt for another method of victory, like Fuinjutsu or BFR, which are both very plausible options. 




> Now that is with out Kabuto even using Edo tensei. Also in the first scenario Can Kabuto summon all three. Because you make a difference during the 2nd scenario saying only one can be summoned. Its crazy. Minato actually gets raped. Its a bad match up



Minato's anti-summon Contract Seal is bad news for Edo Tensei users. Once freed, the Edo Kage are more likely to help good guy Minato than bad guy Kabuto.


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## Jagger (Sep 30, 2013)

I doubt Edo Madara would help a Senju's Dog like Minato.


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## Trojan (Sep 30, 2013)

Jagger said:


> I doubt Edo Madara would help a Senju's Dog like Minato.



But the Uchiha are the Senju's dogs, so madara is their dog. 
Minato has nothing to do with the Senju whatsoever.


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## Rocky (Sep 30, 2013)

Jagger said:


> I doubt Edo Madara would help a Senju's Dog like Minato.



Madara would kill both Kabuto & Minato, ending it in a stalemate. 

Sikeeee

Minato would leave, wait for Madara to slaughter, then come back with a tag he left on the battlefield. Completely legal tactic that gives Minato the victory. 

Too bad Kabuto can't summon Madara here.


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## Bonly (Sep 30, 2013)

Minato should win more times then not. Kabuto has one way of winning but as long as Minato has Hiraishin the chances of Kabuto placing a kunai in Minato's head is close to zero. Minato will eventually take out Kabuto.


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Sep 30, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> *Battlefield*: Killer Bee vs Sasuke
> *Starting Distance*: 50 Meters
> *Knowledge*: Manga (just assume Kabuto has done some research on Minato)
> *Restrictions/Conditions*:
> ...



Minato is not going to have much trouble against the ultimate copy ninja with his only feats as cave attack he cannot use in this situation as well as a light dragon that Minato can easily dodge with s shushin much less using FTG...

This is pretty much the same as a Orochimaru fight...
FIRST:
Minato is so fast that he Kabuto will not be able to react in time to hegde, become water like stolen form the houzuki or replace himself to avoid fatal blows, thus mere Kunai attacks are deadly for Kabuto..
SECOND: Kabuto's healing he stole from karin has no shown the ability to heal deep organ damage much less limbs and such... Thus Minato;s Explosively strong Kunai strikes will still be too much...
THIRD:
Edo's whether Muu, kage, ect... All are bound by contract which Minato can break with a simple TOUCH that with Minato's speed is inevitable, thus the edo's that kabuto summons will become Minato's allies...
FOURTH:
If Minato needs to  beat Kabuto without killing him, he can summon fukasaku and shima to use frog song to paralyze kabuto and any edo's he still has fighting for him...
FIFTH:
If Minato doe snot want to fight the edo's, he can attack kabuto directly and teleport him as well as himself to another location where he has tags placed to fight him directly, completely nullifying the edo numbers advantage...
SIXTH:
Minato knows ALL the Uzumaki sealing jutsu, thus should be able to seal edo's to as well as Kabuto if need be without the use of shiki fuujin...

CONCLUSION:
Base Minato much less what KCM Minato should be capable compared to how much KCM increased naruto's physical abilities should make it so Minato easily owns kabuto before he can even summon edo's, but if he does. Minato teleport himself and kabuto away to fight without edo's one on one...
Can touch them to break the contract gaining new allies... Or use frog song to paralyze them all to seal the edo's and kill kabuto...

Either way, without the edo's kabuto is not much of a challenge with Minato;s ability to strike him before he can even react nullifying his defense of hendging, replacement as well as becoming fluid like suigetsu... And his attacks of muki tensai or hakugenki is not going to even touch Minato so without the edo's Kabuto stands no chance, thus minato's ability to nullify that advantage gives him the ability to beat dragon sage kabuto...


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## Crow (Sep 30, 2013)

Scenario 2 Minato looses Kabuto summons Itachi and they own


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Sep 30, 2013)

Itachi gg.


Awww shit, Dragon Sage Ash is here. Better go ahead and start conceding.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 30, 2013)

Didn't Minato suggest he could outright blitz Jubito in KCM with FTG V2?

Minato either continues to barrage him into submission with Rasengans, summons Ma/Pa for Genjutsu (highly unlikely), or simply chooses to behead him instead of utilizing Rasengan. 

Honestly, neither really have decent knowledge on the other the only difference is Minato is clearly more capable of dealing with that reality in his chakra mode.


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## Joakim3 (Sep 30, 2013)

Scenario 2 I can see going Kabuto with utter extreme dif maybe 5.5 times out of 10, as his techs allow him to survive multiple _Hirashin_ attempts until he gets a good understanding on Minato's tactics, while Minato's arsenal even with KCM doesn't help him that much against Kabuto's hax.  From there on he summons the Raikagenaut to by time while he sets up Genjustu to end the match

BM Minato on the other hand..... Kabuto summons Edo Nagato and they are both _Kage Bunshin: Hirashin Bijudama_ off the planet in a matter of minutes (assuming Minato can use the latter)


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 1, 2013)

*Scenario 1:* I think SM Kabuto would take the victory with... moderate difficulty. Frankly, Minato would have enough trouble against the former, but a tricky opponent like Muu secures the win. The Nidaime Tsuchikage is extremely underestimated on this forum. Individually, I'd place his character within the same tier as Itachi/Nagato - depending on the effectiveness of Meisaigakure no Jutsu - and he probably has access to weight manipulation (akin to Oonoki).

*Scenario 2:* Edo Itachi or Edo Nagato, accompanied by SM Kabuto, can deal with KCM Minato quite handily. 


Forcing a stalemate seems to be Minato's only chance, considering Shiki Fuujin is his answer to ET...


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## Katou (Oct 1, 2013)

Minato wins all Scenarios . .

since Kabuto doesn't have prep time to Edo Tensei. . 

Plus minato Speed blitz easily without Bijuu . .


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## ueharakk (Oct 2, 2013)

Shouldn't KCM Minato logically be able to use bijuurasengan considering he was able to make a combined bijuudama with naruto which requires the chakra ratio be balanced?


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## Joakim3 (Oct 2, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> Shouldn't KCM Minato logically be able to use bijuurasengan considering he was able to make a combined bijuudama with naruto which requires the chakra ratio be balanced?



I'd assume he should be more than capable seeing he based the Rasengan off of Bijudama's in the first place, so the concept is not foreign at all lol


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 2, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> Shouldn't KCM Minato logically be able to use bijuurasengan considering he was able to make a combined bijuudama with naruto which requires the chakra ratio be balanced?


Probably, but Kishimoto isn't going to show it.

If he suddenly started spamming Planetary Rasengans, Bijuurasengans/Mini Tailed Beast Rasengan Balls and Chakra arms he'd perceive to be equal or better than Naruto in that form, which undermines the hype he's given him as the savior and second coming to Rikudo. 

He's used 1 shadow clone in KCM, which is absurd considering Naruto utilized double digit clones when Kurama wasn't feeding all of his chakra to him. Minato has a larger base pool than Naruto has, so theoretically he should be trumping him considerably in nuking efficiency if he's combining that with 50% of Kurama.

Minato is being repressed quite a bit, his shunshin speed alone should be vastly superior than what is being displayed just because of his base speed alone being Obito-level. Though who knows, at this point Sasuke's Susano is moving at BSM Naruto's pace, so why bother trying to scale anything?


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