# Ryuma vs Oden



## Dead Precedence (Sep 8, 2021)

We still don’t really have anything to go off of for Ryuma other than his hype which is probably going to kick into overdrive soon once it’s confirmed he’s Zoro’s ancestor.  Hell, if Ushimaru gets any decent feats that’s arguable hype for Ryuma since he should scale off of him just like Mihawk scales off Zoro unless Ushimaru ends up being stronger lol.

but yeah most people have Ryuma as stronger than Oden just curious how much stronger you’d have him, if at all.


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## trance (Sep 8, 2021)

hmm gonna say ryuma high diffs

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## MO (Sep 8, 2021)

Oden. Ryuma is overhyped.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 5


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## Furinji Saiga (Sep 8, 2021)

Ryuma is pretty much a GOD in Wano, but even more so he is a legendary figure known everywhere. An entire policy by the WG avoding Wano is based on his achievements. 
 His status far outstrips Oden. 

He has way more hype in terms of power and standing.

Fought off the WG, Pirates, and Marines 
Slayed a dragon
Forged a Black Blade 
He is  also the WSS/King/Greatest Warrior Soul

The fact is even after many centuries after his death, Just his Shrine being desecrated is enough to convince all the people of Wano that they will be cursed forever. 
Oden's own daughter puts the value of Ryuma's sword even greater importance then her own fathers heirloom. 

Also Ryuma is clearly seen as an End of Series parallel for Zoro, while Zoro is already paralleling Oden's achievements in Wano.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Winner 10


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## Grinningfox (Sep 8, 2021)

Ryuma seems to be the greater one of the two according to the narrative but they should be close. Oden was respected and beloved by the greatest characters in the story . His strength put him among the best of the verse and the best of the verse acknowledge how monstrous ( WB and Roger) he really was.

Oden was a beast and cut down a dragon in his own right but got cheesed out of a victory.

All that said Ryuma is THE Wano Samurai and the story couldn’t be any more clear about it

I do want to say for the record that anyone who thinks mid diff is possible is insane

Reactions: Agree 3


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## ShadoLord (Sep 8, 2021)

Oden doesn’t strike fear into the hearts of the WG and got rekt by Laido. 

Ryuma mid diff 1v1. Maybe low

Reactions: Like 3 | Lewd 1


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## Grinningfox (Sep 8, 2021)

And here we go

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Van Basten (Sep 8, 2021)

Ryuma’s hype endures literally centuries after his death.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## kozuki (Sep 8, 2021)

Nobody will mid diff Prime Oden, someone who is put on the same pedestal as the strongest characters in the series. Ryuma has immense hype though, but we know too little. I don't think that it's fair to use the argument about how Ryuma is known around the world. Oden left Wano when he was freakin 29 and he was only 5 years on the sea, yet Sengoku warned Akainu about the Samurai of Wano, thinking that Oden is still alive. And no, current Zoro is not Prime Oden level. Just because Zoro hurt Kaido doesn't mean that he goes on the same list where Rocks, Roger, WB, Shanks, and Oden are.
Killer hurt him.
Raizo hurt him.
All the scabbards hurt him.
Law hurt him.
Luffy hurt him.
None of them will be put on the same list as the likes of the ones mentioned above tho. Maybe Luffy, if Kaido isn't dead by the end of this arc.
If Ryuma mid diffs Prime Oden then he's above any character in the story, which I don't think is the case.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Grinningfox (Sep 8, 2021)

kozuki said:


> Nobody will mid diff Prime Oden, someone who is put on the same pedestal as the strongest characters in the series. Ryuma has immense hype though, but we know too little. I don't think that it's fair to use the argument about how Ryuma is known around the world. Oden left Wano when he was freakin 29 and he was only 5 years on the sea, yet Sengoku warned Akainu about the Samurai of Wano, thinking that Oden is still alive. And no, current Zoro is not Prime Oden level. Just because Zoro hurt Kaido doesn't mean that he goes on the same list where Rocks, Roger, WB, Shanks, and Oden are.
> Killer hurt him.
> Raizo hurt him.
> All the scabbards hurt him.
> ...


Ah a man of culture !!!


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## Oda Report (Sep 8, 2021)

Ryuuma is the ceiling for wano period. Wano was Ryuumas house even long after his death. 

Oden is overwhelming overrated. Zoro is already checking off a list of things oden could not do.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## oiety (Sep 8, 2021)

Ryuma high diffs.

Sword God>Idiot Lord

Reactions: Like 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## BladeofTheMorning (Sep 9, 2021)

It's Ryuma mid for me. 

The man was a Sword God. I would say that he was WSS at one point, something Oden never was. I would even go on a limb and say that he was at least top three in the verse while he was alive in his prime. I wonder if he was the first man to turn his sword black. But anyways he achieved a permanent black blade, something that we see only from Mihawk at the moment.

Ryuma killed a dragon, Oden was killed by one (ouuuuuuuuuuuu). Jokes aside Oden is or was a beast himself, but not greater than Ryuma.

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1


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## kozuki (Sep 9, 2021)

Guess Ryuma can mid diff Rocks, Roger, WB, and Shanks, yall.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Dead Precedence (Sep 9, 2021)

kozuki said:


> Guess Ryuma can mid diff Rocks, Roger, WB, and Shanks, yall.


Fam not everyone on that list was the same level. That being said I think Ryuma takes it high diff, maybe even very high if he’s only as strong as Mihawk or has even been surpassed. Mid diff would make him pretty much Pirate King level, which I’d be fine with, but I’d need feats or something more concrete to put him at that tier.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tenma (Sep 9, 2021)

this is better hype than anything Ryuma has tbh

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 3 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Eustathios (Sep 9, 2021)

Tenma said:


> this is better hype than anything Ryuma has tbh

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 2


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## Tenma (Sep 9, 2021)

I mean not saying that isn't hype

but the 'ceiling' panel is clearly more significant and represents the pinnacle of strength and the greatest figures in the story.


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## Eustathios (Sep 9, 2021)

Tenma said:


> I mean not saying that isn't hype
> 
> but the 'ceiling' panel is clearly more significant and represents the pinnacle of strength and the greatest figures in the story.


Being known as a National Treasure of the same land Oden came from and scaring the WG so much they never returned to Wano after centuries is an even greater achievement.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 5


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## Dead Precedence (Sep 9, 2021)

Tenma said:


> I mean not saying that isn't hype
> 
> but the 'ceiling' panel is clearly more significant and represents the pinnacle of strength and the greatest figures in the story.


Tbf even if you wanted to take the top 5 at face value and use it to say that those are definitively the top 5 in Kaido's lifetime and use it as an anti-feat for Rayleigh, Garp, Shiki, Admirals, Mihawk, that wouldn't even apply to Ryuma since he's from centuries ago and there's no way he could have ever made Kaido's list. I just feel like Ryuma has too much portrayal in his favor and being an analogue for EoS Zoro compared to Ryuma that puts this in his favor. I feel like Oda's really trying to hammer that he's the greatest Wano has ever produced. He also does have a feat over Oden in terms of blackening his blade, hate to bring that feat up, which there's no chance that Oden didn't try to replicate that feat.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Karma (Sep 9, 2021)

Tenma said:


> this is better hype than anything Ryuma has tbh


Oden isnt the one who got the Marines shook centaries after his passing

Reactions: Like 7 | Winner 2


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## Grinningfox (Sep 9, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> Tbf even if you wanted to take the top 5 at face value and use it to say that those are definitively the top 5 in Kaido's lifetime and use it as an anti-feat for Rayleigh, Garp, Shiki, Admirals, Mihawk, that wouldn't even apply to Ryuma since he's from centuries ago and there's no way he could have ever made Kaido's list. I just feel like Ryuma has too much portrayal in his favor and being an analogue for EoS Zoro compared to Ryuma that puts this in his favor. I feel like Oda's really trying to hammer that he's the greatest Wano has ever produced. He also does have a feat over Oden in terms of blackening his blade, hate to bring that feat up, which there's no chance that Oden didn't try to replicate that feat.


Oden’s sword’s have been shown to be more difficult to tame 

We also don’t know what goes into blackening


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## TheWiggian (Sep 9, 2021)

Ryuma by a good bit. WS title, black blade, called a god, his legend protected Wano for centuries, killed the dragon, the other did not. Clear portrayal difference. Not much Oden can do here. Mid - high diff, closer to mid imo.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Dislike 1


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## Tenma (Sep 9, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> Tbf even if you wanted to take the top 5 at face value and use it to say that those are definitively the top 5 in Kaido's lifetime and use it as an anti-feat for Rayleigh, Garp, Shiki, Admirals, Mihawk, that wouldn't even apply to Ryuma since he's from centuries ago and there's no way he could have ever made Kaido's list. I just feel like Ryuma has too much portrayal in his favor and being an analogue for EoS Zoro compared to Ryuma that puts this in his favor. I feel like Oda's really trying to hammer that he's the greatest Wano has ever produced. He also does have a feat over Oden in terms of blackening his blade, hate to bring that feat up, which there's no chance that Oden didn't try to replicate that feat.



Oden's specialty seemed to be CoC, not CoA just like Shanks, so it makes sense he didn't blacken his sword. Mihawk seems to be a step above Ryuma anyhow (blackened _supreme grade_ blade_)._

Eh Oda has definitely put in way more time into sucking off Oden including lumping him in with fucking WB/Roger/Rocks.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 3


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## ShadoLord (Sep 9, 2021)

Oden never reached the pinnacle as a swordsmen. Whoever could blacken their blades permanently gets a definitive nod over him.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Dead Precedence (Sep 9, 2021)

Tenma said:


> Oden's specialty seemed to be CoC, not CoA just like Shanks, so it makes sense he didn't blacken his sword. Mihawk seems to be a step above Ryuma anyhow (blackened _supreme grade_ blade_)._
> 
> Eh Oda has definitely put in way more time into sucking off Oden including lumping him in with fucking WB/Roger/Rocks.


I highly highly doubt that Ryuma is not going to have CoC, but fair enough, we'll just have to wait for it to be confirmed that he has it. I would say that Zoro does have CoC and is obviously going to be able to use ACoC later on and blacken his blades, but I guess that would just  indicate he surpasses Ryuma/Mihawk/Oden cause of that. I also actually do think that's a fair argument for Mihawk above Ryuma, since he blackened a higher grade weapon, but if it wasn't for that I honestly think that his portrayal would put him at damn near PK level. That's the only thing holding him back, is it's possible Mihawk surpassed him, but all his hype just dwarfs even Mihawk atm until we have more background on Mihawk.

Oden being compared to the legends is good portrayal but others already brought up a ton of things Ryuma has over him WSM/WSS of his day, Sword God Epiphet, Black Blade, had the government and pirates alike shook to invade Wano centuries after his death, is pretty much EoS Zoro then I doubt we're going to convince each other tbh.



Zoro said:


> Oden never reached the pinnacle as a swordsmen. Whoever could blacken their blades permanently gets a definitive nod over him.


This. Like I can kind of get not using the black blade to say Mihawk/Ryuma>Roger, Rayleigh, Shanks etc. but Oden is about as much of a way of the blade, bushido esque, "Kenshi" samurai swordsman there is. He also, no doubt, tried to blacken his blades since Ryuma was known as a god for that.


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## Delta Shell (Sep 9, 2021)

Zombie Ryumma < Pre Skip Zoro.

Alive Ryumma will be < Prine Oden

Reactions: Funny 1


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## kozuki (Sep 9, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> Fam not everyone on that list was the same level. That being said I think Ryuma takes it high diff, maybe even very high if he’s only as strong as Mihawk or has even been surpassed. Mid diff would make him pretty much Pirate King level, which I’d be fine with, but I’d need feats or something more concrete to put him at that tier.


1.Oda stated in the newest SBS that Luffy is the first opponent since Oden that Kaido considers worthy to fight serious against. If that's the case, why is Shanks even in Kaido's Top 5 if they never fought?
2.Kaido didn't fight or see WB after Oden's death, meaning Kaido's act of putting WB in his Top 5 is based on from back when they were in the Rocks Pirates. Kaido never fought or saw Primebeard's strength. And idk about u, but I doubt that the WB from the time of the Rocks pirates is stronger than Prime Oden when WB wasn't even a Yonko back then.


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## Great Potato (Sep 9, 2021)

Tenma said:


> this is better hype than anything Ryuma has tbh



That's just a list of some people Kaido values and has high respect for. Ryuuma wouldn't even be a candidate for that list because he was long dead by the time Kaido was even born, Joyboy wasn't featured in that collage either and Kaido is clearly informed on his legend.

Ryuuma was the World's Strongest Man back when he was alive, and Oden hasn't touched the amount of respect he is given in their homeland of Wano. He's the Sword God revered as deity and more of an analogue of what we could expect from a Prime Zoro.

Reactions: Like 7 | Winner 7


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## Grinningfox (Sep 9, 2021)

@Mihawk  this thread perfectly encapsulates my beef with portrayal .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (Sep 9, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> @Mihawk  this thread perfectly encapsulates my beef with portrayal .


What's the issue?


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## Grinningfox (Sep 9, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> What's the issue?


That hype without substantive showings if rife with the potential for tier specialist insanity .

Prime Ryuma mid diffing oden is insane but due to him lacking a hard cap via feats his hype gets run as high as anyone feels like .

I have similar beef with prime Rayleigh

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Karma (Sep 9, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Prime Ryuma mid diffing oden is insane


Its not abt Ryuma, the ppl who voted mid dif just dont have Oden at PK lvl


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## Grinningfox (Sep 9, 2021)

Karma said:


> Its not abt Ryuma, the ppl who voted mid dif just dont have Oden at PK lvl


Oden is not PK level( in case you’re implying i have him at that level and that’s why I disagree)

 nor does he have to be to not be mid diff for a guy we’ve never seen fight and have no way to compare to anyone in a tangible way.


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## Karma (Sep 9, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Oden is not PK level( in case you’re implying i have him at that level and that’s why I disagree)


Imo hes whatever tier Luffy is wen he leaves Wano, weakest Yonko


Grinningfox said:


> nor does he have to be to not be mid diff for a guy we’ve never seen fight and have no way to compare to anyone in a tangible way.


We already know all of his feats, theres only 1 question

Was his generation weaker than the current one?

Theres more evidence pointing to no than yes, hence y most ppl put him closer to Roger than Oden.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Mihawk (Sep 9, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> That hype without substantive showings if rife with the potential for tier specialist insanity .
> Prime Ryuma mid diffing oden is insane but due to him lacking a hard cap via feats his hype gets run as high as anyone feels like .
> 
> I have similar beef with prime Rayleigh



 This is one case, and if people think Ryuuma mid diffs Rayleigh, they probably already have preconceived notions of the respective levels they think Ryuuma and Oden are at, respectively.

Ryuuma has even less of a cap than Rayleigh, since we have no context of what his era was like or how broad the name of "Sword God" can be. He's more vague than any other character since he's literally from several Eras before.

But I actually agree that the lack of boundaries for this kind of thing can also lead to tier specialist insanity. Ryuuma can be anywhere from being barely better then Oden, to Yonko and PK level.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Quipchaque (Sep 9, 2021)

Personally I think Oden is meant to be the Luffy equivalent to Ryuuma and Zoro so I put Oden above Ryuuma by a hair.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Strobacaxi (Sep 9, 2021)

Ryuuma's hype is on a whole other level. There's no other character with current hype and feats that will still be remembered 800 years in the future. Only maybe Roger and Luffy

Reactions: Like 3


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## BladeofTheMorning (Sep 9, 2021)

Tenma said:


> I mean not saying that isn't hype
> 
> but the 'ceiling' panel is clearly more significant and represents the pinnacle of strength and the greatest figures in the story.


Was Ryuuma even alive as the same time as Kaido? I mean every person that he listed in that mind bubble of his is someone he knew/saw or even fought. He saw the power of Xebec and was under him, he was crew mates with WB, he must have seen Roger take out Xebec (and of course became PK), Oden left a scar on him and Shanks may have done something before, after or when the clashed before Shanks went off to MF.


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## Conxc (Sep 9, 2021)

Idk Oden knows how to move them glutes. Ryuuma couldn’t even beat pre-ts pre Shusui Zoro. Idk.


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## BladeofTheMorning (Sep 9, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Idk Oden knows how to move them glutes. Ryuuma couldn’t even beat pre-ts pre Shusui Zoro. Idk.


It was Brook's shadow in Ryuma's body. If you put Ryumas shadow (which you can't because he was dead) into his own body then he would have wiped out the entire Straw Hat Crew. Then Moria would go to Wano and use him against Kadio and take a W probably. Who knows.


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## Ezekjuninor (Sep 9, 2021)

I feel like Ryuma is meant to be stronger than Mihawk who's likely stronger than Oden.


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## Vivo Diez (Sep 9, 2021)

Furinji Saiga said:


> Also Ryuma is clearly seen as an End of Series parallel for Zoro, *while Zoro is already paralleling Oden's achievements in Wano.*

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Van Basten (Sep 9, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> I feel like Ryuma is meant to be stronger thank *Mihawk who's likely stronger than Oden.*


Likely?


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## Yonko RedHair Shanks (Sep 9, 2021)

If Oda would show more feats and less history everything would be easier to judge.
But I guess Ryuma's story makes him superior to Oden and undoubtedly superior to Mihawk.


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## Great Potato (Sep 9, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Ryuuma's hype is on a whole other level. There's no other character with current hype and feats that will still be remembered 800 years in the future. Only maybe Roger and Luffy



Oars is another one with hype that has survived many centuries.

Joy Boy and Noland to a lesser extent. They would have worldwide acclaim if their legacies had not been tainted by Government, though the people and places that know better still hail them as legends. Still prestigious company to be in.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Sep 9, 2021)

Ryuma low difficulty. Ryuma is the strongest character in OP history, except maybe Im.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Dead Precedence (Sep 9, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Ryuma low difficulty. Ryuma is the strongest character in OP history, except maybe Im.


What do you think of the parallels of 

Mihawk~Shanks
Rayleigh~Roger
Ryuma~Joyboy

For Zoro and Luffy, if that's possible then maybe he's even above PK level (and so would Joyboy obv)

Reactions: Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## Sherlōck (Sep 9, 2021)

Oden was Current Luffy level. 

Ryuuma was Mihawk level at the very least.

Ryuuma wins with high difficulty.


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## trance (Sep 9, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Ryuma low difficulty. Ryuma is the strongest character in OP history, except maybe Im.


lmao

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kroczilla (Sep 9, 2021)

Not sure how we can accurately rank Ryuuma given that we have zero ideas about the calibre of opponents he fought in his life time.

Based of hype though, I say he probably take this with high - extreme diff. Save for maybe the existence of an Uber god tier, I don't see anyone in the verse taking down a Yonko lvl fighter with a lvl of difficulty less than that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Sep 10, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Ryuma low difficulty. Ryuma is the strongest character in OP history, except maybe Im.


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## Yumi Zoro (Sep 10, 2021)

The only people from the legend who are as strong or stronger than Ryuma are Joyboy Aka the Sun God Nika himself and Imu sama.

Anyone else loose Hight diff at best.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## Tsukuyomi (Sep 10, 2021)

Sweet Tomato said:


> The only people from the legend who are as strong or stronger than Ryuma are Joyboy Aka the Sun God Nika himself and Imu sama.
> 
> Anyone else loose Hight diff at best.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Draghensalk (Sep 10, 2021)

Ryuma negs the fodder

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## hajimehipo (Sep 11, 2021)

Zombie or Not, Ryuma got punked by pre ts zoro

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Fel1x (Sep 11, 2021)

lol @ majority thinking someone can mid diff top tier

if in your opinion Ryuma can mid diff Oden, he can high diff Kaido, Roger, Garp, Prime WB and Xebec

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 4


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## kozuki (Sep 11, 2021)

If Ryuma can mid diff Oden then he must be the strongest character in OP until EOS Luffy

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Tsukuyomi (Sep 12, 2021)

kozuki said:


> If Ryuma can mid diff Oden then he must be the strongest character in OP until EOS Luffy


He is.
Well only Imu and Blackbeard are comparable. 
 
Doesn't mean my boy Oden is weak tho.


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## Tsukuyomi (Sep 12, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> lol @ majority thinking someone can mid diff top tier
> 
> if in your opinion Ryuma can mid diff Oden, he can high diff Kaido, Roger, Garp, Prime WB and Xebec


I talked to Oda and he said Ryuma turns Laido to mince meat.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Nox (Sep 12, 2021)

Ryuma is heralded as a swordsman who surpassed the title of strongest swordsman - Sword God. If you wish to juxtapose Oden and Ryuma. One safeguarded Wano from continued invasion, slew a Dragon, converted his great grade weapon into a black blade - the other couldn't. Oden wasn't the best swordsman in the PK ship. *King, God, Man - pick one* and its still Ryuma.

​
*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Winner 5


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## Ezekjuninor (Sep 12, 2021)

Van Basten said:


> Likely?


Well I have Mihawk above Oden but his feats are kinda shit


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## Oda Report (Sep 12, 2021)

Mihawk > = Shanks > Ryuuma > Zoro >= Oden

Ryuuma cake walks Oden.

Ryuumas legend is greater than odens Ryuuma has alot better mastery of his blade and actually defended wano, was known as sword god, died of old age. Oden didn't master enma or fully max out his blades, failed to defend wano and was killed.

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 3 | Dislike 1


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## kozuki (Sep 12, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Mihawk > = Shanks > Ryuuma > Zoro >= Oden
> 
> Ryuuma cake walks Oden.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Sep 12, 2021)




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## Oda Report (Sep 12, 2021)

Yeah Ryuuma defended wano from the WG Pirates alike, became known as the sword god, died of old age. The man was so god like with the blade the poeople thought that since the blade was stolen (by Moriah) that the country of wano lost it protective veil long after his death at the hands of old age.

Oden on the other hand failed to protect anything, hence Luffy and Zoro cleaning up his mess.

Which are you choosing for home defense?

Reactions: Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## kozuki (Sep 12, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Yeah Ryuuma defended wano from the WG Pirates alike, became known as the sword god, died of old age.


He died with 47 due to a sickness, not due to old age.


Oda Report said:


> The man was so god like with the blade the poeople thought that since the blade was stolen (by Moriah) that the country of wano lost it protective veil long after his death at the hands of old age.


He didn't due to old age, he died due to a sickness 100 years ago and was buried with his blade. The people of Wano were in shock cause Moria stole Ryuma's corpse AND his blade 23 years ago, not only is that grave-robbing, but is also happened when Oden was still alive and getting blackmailed by Orochi and Kaido. Of course people would freak out if someone stole the corpse and blade of a Master Swordsman, the same thing would happen if Oden was buried with Enma (or Ame no Habakiri) and someone were to steal his corpse and one of the blades 100 years later.


Oda Report said:


> Oden on the other hand failed to protect anything, hence Luffy and Zoro cleaning up his mess.


Oden had to deal with 2 usurpers, one who was threatening the life of citizens and hostages while having many subordinates with broken abilities, the old man with Bartolomeo's fruit for example, while the other usurper is one of strongest characters in OP. Oden protected hundreds of citizens every day for 5 years and he would've killed Kaido if it wasn't for the old hag saving Kaido's ass.
I never said that Ryuma isn't above Oden, he got hype, but it would never be a mid diff. I'm sorry but despite as much you hype Ryuma up, he wouldn't do much better if he were in Oden's situation, Orochi and Kaido would threaten the lives of the citizens and hostages and Ryuma would have no way to kill Orochi due to the old man with the barrier fruit.

And Zoro>=Oden? Good joke fam, ya almost got me there, Oden would still wash him until Zoro manages to beat an admiral.


Tbh, shouldn't Ryuma be above Mihawk and Shanks too? Shanks is a cripple while Mihawk being the Greatest Swordsman with garbage feats isn't as impressive as Ryuma being the Sword God.

Reactions: Optimistic 3


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## Karma (Sep 12, 2021)

Sword God should be Zoro's final epithet, its a title above WSS

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Oda Report (Sep 12, 2021)

kozuki said:


> He did with 47 due to a sickness, not due to old age.



Point is Ryuuma wasn't killed protecting wano like Oden. 



kozuki said:


> He didn't due to old age, he died due to a sickness 100 years ago and was buried with his blade. The people of Wano were in shock cause Moria stole Ryuma's corpse AND his blade 23 years ago, not only is that grave-robbing, but is also happened when Oden was still alive and getting blackmailed by Orochi and Kaido. Of course people would freak out if someone stole the corpse and blade of a Master Swordsman,* the same thing would happen if Oden was buried with Enma and someone were to steal his corpse and blade 100 years later.*



Oden even failed to stop wano from being violated by Moriah. Damn 

Oden didn't have the strength to muster up a legend of defending wano to be even thought of in the same light as Ryuuma. Ryuuma sword was known as a treasure and what protected wano long after Ryuumas death until it got stolen. Thats how shook and convinced the public was. 

Oden OWN kin traded Enma the only blade that scared kaidou for the Black blade known as Atum water that belonged to Ryuuma. 



kozuki said:


> Oden had to deal with 2 usurpers, one who was threatening the life of citizens and hostages while having many subordinates with broken abilities, the old man with Bartolomeo's fruit for example, while the other usurper is one of strongest characters in OP. Oden protected hundreds of citizens every day for 5 years and he would've killed Kaido if it wasn't for the old hag saving Kaido's ass.
> I never said that Ryuma isn't above Oden, he got hype, but it would never be a mid diff. I'm sorry but despite as much you hype Ryuma up, he wouldn't do much better if he were in Oden's situation, Orochi and Kaido would threaten the lives of the citizens and hostages and Ryuma would have no way to kill Orochi due to the old man with the barrier fruit.



You don't think the likes of the WG or Government officials in wano and Pirates alike are going to do WG and Pirate like trick on Ryuuma when wano was known as the Country of Gold. LMAO

WG gonna world government and Pirates gonna Pirate. 



kozuki said:


> And Zoro>=Oden? Good joke fam, ya almost got me there, Oden would still wash him until Zoro manages to beat an admiral.
> 
> 
> Tbh, shouldn't Ryuma be above Mihawk and Shanks too?



Zoro already pulls up and isnt afraid to 1v1 an Admiral, we are in wano now, Zoro can produce attacks that make Dragon Kaidou avoid it due to fear of damage, while Oden can only scar a weaker version of Kaidou who wasn't in his prime. 

Ryuuma a one man army swordsman fighting off the world with his Black blade, sounds like a Pirate who was famous before the great age of piracy who is the current strongest swordsman in the OP world.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## kozuki (Sep 12, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Point is Ryuuma wasn't killed protecting wano like Oden.


Because he didn't have to deal with the forces Oden had to deal with.


Oda Report said:


> Oden even failed to stop wano from being violated by Moriah


Kaido and Orochi were ruling Wano at that point. If anything, it's pathetic that Kaido beat Moria's ass but Moria still managed to steal Ryuma's corpse and his blade without him noticing.


Oda Report said:


> Oden didn't have the strength to muster up a legend of defending wano to be even thought of in the same light as Ryuuma.


Except he's already being treated as a legend just 20 years after he died.


Oda Report said:


> Ryuuma sword was known as a treasure and what protected wano long after Ryuumas death until it got stolen. Thats how shook and convinced the public was.


The public was shock cause Ryuma and his blade was grave-robbed during the time when Kaido and Orochi were ruling Wano and blackmailing Oden with the lives of said public, the citizens and hostages. Ofc the public would be in shock if that happened during such a time.


Oda Report said:


> Zoro already pulls up and isnt afraid to 1v1 an Admiral


Fujitora would have rocked his shit in Dressrosa.


Oda Report said:


> Zoro can produce attacks that make Dragon Kaidou avoid it due to fear of damage, while Oden can only scar a weaker version of Kaidou who wasn't in his prime.


Kaido was near 40 (prime age) back then and already considered invincible. Kaido wondered if Luffy will reach the level of Rocks, Roger, WB, Oden, and Shanks, so Zoro who's weaker than Luffy isn't as strong as Oden. The fact that current Kaido still thinks of Oden as one of the few people who can fight him, proves that there isn't much of a difference in strength between 40 year old Kaido and current Kaido. Kaido fought Luffy, Zoro, Kid, Law, Killer, Scabbards, and Yamato. Oden alone did better than their combined force and almost killed Kaido. Kaido was already considered invincible back then so don't act like current Kaido got better durability.


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## Shunsuiju (Sep 12, 2021)

I give it to Ryuma.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Oda Report (Sep 12, 2021)

kozuki said:


> Because he didn't have to deal with the forces Oden had to deal with.



Government and Pirates is what Ryuuma defeated, Kaidou is a pirate........Oden is a Pirate lost to a pirate and there pirate ways.

All Odens mess that he failed to clean up and it hasn't surpassed or eclipsed Ryuumas legend who's been dead for how long? 



kozuki said:


> Fujitora would have rocked his shit in Dressrosa.



It was Fuji who showed fear, now Zoro is onto putting that same fear into 2 Yonkou in big Mom and Kaidou.



kozuki said:


> Kaido was near 40 (prime age) back then and already considered invincible.



Thats the kaidou Zoro faced, current kaidou > then the one Oden faced. 

Moriah was able to equal kaidou at that point.


kozuki said:


> Kaido wondered if Luffy will reach the level of Rocks, Roger, WB, Oden, and Shanks, so Zoro who's weaker than Luffy isn't as strong as Oden.



and Mihawk who is legends past Oden acknowledged Zoros potential being greater then that of Shanks back in EAst blue.
Zoro is currently able to run up on admirals and now is able to make dragon kaidou avoid his attacks for fear of damage. 



kozuki said:


> The fact that current Kaido still thinks of Oden as one of the few people who can fight him, proves that there isn't much of a difference in strength between 40 year old Kaido and current Kaido.



LMAO because a cabbin boy apprentice was able to equal Captain Rocks before he was given his Koi Koi DF by Big mom......Nah



kozuki said:


> Kaido fought Luffy, Zoro, Kid, Law, Killer, Scabbards, and Yamato. Oden alone did better than their combined force and almost killed Kaido. Kaido was already considered invincible back then so don't act like current Kaido got better durability.



Current Kaidou had help in Big Mom, and current Kaidou is a lot stronger then Moriah and what Oden faced.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## kozuki (Sep 12, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Government and Pirates is what Ryuuma defeated, Kaidou is a pirate........Oden is a Pirate lost to a pirate and there pirate ways.


Ryuma never had to deal with 2 usurpers at the same time while being blackmailed with the lives of the citizens and hostages. Ryuma never faced someone who is impossible to kill due to a unbreakable barrier.


Oda Report said:


> All Odens mess that he failed to clean up and it hasn't surpassed or eclipsed Ryuumas legend who's been dead for how long?


What are you talking about? Ryuma lived in a completely different time. He wasn't alive during Oden's lifetime where guys like Roger, WB, Garp, Sengoku, Kaido, Big Mom, or Shiki existed. If Ryuma lived during a time where weaker opponents existed, ofc Ryuma would have it easier to become a legend.


Oda Report said:


> It was Fuji who showed fear, now Zoro is onto putting that same fear into 2 Yonkou in big Mom and Kaidou.





Oda Report said:


> Thats the kaidou Zoro faced, current kaidou > then the one Oden faced.


No. Kaido was already considered invincible when Oden faced him.


Oda Report said:


> Moriah was able to equal kaidou at that point.


Kaido fought Moria 5 years before when he faced Oden and
1)Moria was much stronger back then.
2)Kaido destroyed Moria and his crew.
3)Kaido became stronger during those 5 years and strengthened his army while Oden made a fool out of himself for those 5 years and still rocked Kaido's shit.


Oda Report said:


> and Mihawk who is legends past Oden acknowledged Zoros potential being greater then that of Shanks back in EAst blue.





Oda Report said:


> Zoro is currently able to run up on admirals


Any admiral would whoop his ass.


Oda Report said:


> LMAO because a cabbin boy apprentice was able to equal Captain Rocks before he was given his Koi Koi DF by Big mom......Nah


What are you talking about? It was current Kaido who said that he considers Rocks, Roger, WB, Oden, and Shanks as one of the few people who can fight him. Apprentice Kaido (Who was 21 years old 38 years ago) obviously saw Rocks fight so he's able to estimate how his current self would do against Rocks.


Oda Report said:


> Current Kaidou had help in Big Mom, and current Kaidou is a lot stronger then Moriah and what Oden faced.


1.Current Kaido whooped all of them (Luffy, Zoro, Kid, Law, Scabbards, Yamato) on his own.
2.The Kaido which Oden faced is stronger than the Kaido Moria faced, and Moria and his crew got destroyed by Kaido.
3.Kaido was near 40 when he faced Oden and considered invincible.
4.Current Kaido considering Oden as one of the few people who can fight him proves that there isn't much difference in strength between current Kaido and  the Kaido Oden faced. What, you think Kaido would put Zoro in his Top 5 after this? Sorry to crush your dreams but unless Zoro beats an admiral, Kaido would never even think of putting him in his list.


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## B Rabbit (Sep 12, 2021)

Give it to Oden.

For all we know Ryuuma could be another fishertiger.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Dead Precedence (Sep 12, 2021)

I'm not sure what's a more trollish take tbh. Oden winning or Ryuma low diffing.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## B Rabbit (Sep 12, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> I'm not sure what's a more trollish take tbh. Oden winning or Ryuma low diffing.


Ryuuma low diffing.

There is no problem saying Oden wins. Especially because it's a safe take on Ryuuma. The hype and portrayel is getting a little carried away.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Dead Precedence (Sep 12, 2021)

B Rabbit said:


> Ryuuma low diffing.
> 
> There is no problem saying Oden wins. Especially because it's a safe take on Ryuuma. The hype and portrayel is getting a little carried away.


Oden's hype is nowhere near Ryuma and even this Kozuki guy thinks Ryuma wins. Yeah, he's featless but so is Xebec. He's clearly meant to be an analogue for EoS Zoro, the only thing he has over Ryuma in portrayal is that top 5 list and that's if you want to take it at face value. Everyone's listed every single piece of portrayal that Ryuma has over Oden, it's not even close.

Reactions: Like 2


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## B Rabbit (Sep 12, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> Oden's hype is nowhere near Ryuma and even this Kozuki guy thinks Ryuma wins. Yeah, he's featless but so is Xebec. He's clearly meant to be an analogue for EoS Zoro, the only thing he has over Ryuma in portrayal is that top 5 list and that's if you want to take it at face value. Everyone's listed every single piece of portrayal that Ryuma has over Oden, it's not even close.


The only thing we know for 100% fact Ryuuma has over Oden is the black blade. However considering we don't even know the full detail on how to make the black blade officaly makes it an antifeat until we see.

Ryuuma is most likely stronger, but even so we don't know and we are making more guess work and headcanon to justify it.

Oden wins. And when Ryuuma has feats we can reopen the discussion. Might need to contact the mods and make featless character battles bannable again.

@Soca @convict

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Dead Precedence (Sep 12, 2021)

B Rabbit said:


> The only thing we know for 100% fact Ryuuma has over Oden is the black blade. However considering we don't even know the full detail on how to make the black blade officaly makes it an antifeat until we see.


The Black blade is going to be a power up for Zoro and once he blackens Enma thematically it means he surpassed Oden, something Oden could never do. It's his version of G5 or DF awakening. You can pull this argument for why Roger/Primebeard/Shanks etc don't have black blades, but not against Oden who almost certainly attempted to replicate the same feat.



B Rabbit said:


> Ryuuma is most likely stronger, but even so we don't know and we are making more guess work and headcanon to justify it.


He is damn near 100 percent stronger it's just a matter of how much stronger whether it's by quite a bit or barely. Using all the portrayal isn't "heacannon". When the manga is very clear that Ryuma is the greatest samurai Wano has ever produced and Oden isn't.


B Rabbit said:


> Oden wins. And when Ryuuma has feats we can reopen the discussion.


Oden does not beat Mihawk nor Shanks even though he has better feats.



B Rabbit said:


> Might need to contact the mods and make featless character battles bannable again.


Lmao I like how you pull this shit up to try and close the discussion because you don't like that nigh everyone thinks Ryuma beats Oden. But I'm fine with that tbh, we have lots of speculate threads and all we have is scaling really to go off Ryuma

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## B Rabbit (Sep 12, 2021)

Again. You're making up headcanon fiction. Yeah Blackblades will be a powerup but like I said we have no idea about functions and how one achieves a Blackblade.

Even if that is true. That still doesn't prove the gaps in power. You're acting as if being the greatest Samurai Wano has produced means Ryuuma is 100 and Oden's a soft 30. When in actually it could possibly mean Ryuuma's a 100 and Oden's a 95. We have no idea about the gaps of power.

You said yourself that having a Blackblade makes Ryuuma > Oden. Yet you just stated Oden has better feats than Mihawk despite Mihawk having a black blade.  and Shanks doesn't have a Blackblade yet we know he can fight people like Shanks, Whitebeard, Kaidou on equal footing.

You literally just proved to us that Blackblade means nothing.

And sorry you feel that way. But the fact you are already throwing insults around over a character with no feats is proof enough that threads like this need to be locked.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Dead Precedence (Sep 12, 2021)

B Rabbit said:


> Again. You're making up headcanon fiction. Yeah Blackblades will be a powerup but like I said we have no idea about functions and how one achieves a Blackblade.


It's called using your brain and knowing how to read. If anything people to try downplay the black blade feat because they're worried of what it implies for Mihawk (and Ryuma) having flat out CoA in the verse, but I'm not going to get carried away like that. All we know is he did something Oden failed to do, that = a feat over Oden.



B Rabbit said:


> Even if that is true. That still doesn't prove the gaps in power. You're acting as if being the greatest Samurai Wano has produced means Ryuuma is 100 and Oden's a soft 30. When in actually it could possibly mean Ryuuma's a 100 and Oden's a 95. We have no idea about the gaps of power.



For one I already think it'd take High Diff for Ryuma to beat Oden, and said that earlier in this thread. I don't even know if Roger/Primebeard can mid diff him. And I even put Ryuma "extreme" diffs in this poll as a valid option whereas I left out the Ryuma low diffing him option cause I know people will meme with that option. However, most posts saying Oden wins are trolling other than I guess the Tenma guy.


B Rabbit said:


> You said yourself that having a Blackblade makes Ryuuma > Oden. Yet you just stated Oden has better feats than Mihawk despite Mihawk having a black blade.  and Shanks doesn't have a Blackblade yet we know he can fight people like Shanks, Whitebeard, Kaidou on equal footing.
> 
> You literally just proved to us that Blackblade means nothing.


What? Oden has more feats than either unless you want to be dogmatic with feats and use Shanks losing his arm to a fish as a negative and use MF feats at face value, and hey be my guest (guess that means Doffy>Jozu). 

Secondly, Oden is about as much of a kenshi, way of the blade,  samurai that Ryuma would embody or even Mihawk (even though his theme isn't that of a samurai). He has no DF and is about as swordsman-y as you can get. It's simple he failed to replicate Ryuma's feat, that Mihawk has also achieved. I mean hey maybe I can use this against Shanks too if I really wanted but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.   Since he also doesn't even have a DF and unti proven otherwise he IS a swordsman.




B Rabbit said:


> And sorry you feel that way. But the fact you are already throwing insults around over a character with no feats is proof enough that threads like this need to be locked.


Lmao, if you took that as an insult then that's your loss. Just running to the mods to close the thread because you don't like that people think Ryuma beats his ass is just hilarious to me. It's a little circle jerky yeah, but it's an honest question on how people scale Ryuma to Oden whether they think he's only a bit stronger or a lot stronger, if you have an issue with that oh well.


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## Great Potato (Sep 12, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> lol @ majority thinking someone can mid diff top tier
> 
> if in your opinion Ryuma can mid diff Oden, he can high diff Kaido, Roger, Garp, Prime WB and Xebec



It's likely the people voting mid-diff don't believe that Oden pushes those guys to high-diff either.

This is what Oden looked like in front of Roger


*Spoiler*: __ 








This exchange doesn't give me the impression that Oden would have brought them to high-diff if he went the full stretch with either of his captains.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## Dead Precedence (Sep 12, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> It's likely the people voting mid-diff don't believe that Oden pushes those guys to high-diff either.
> 
> This is what Oden looked like in front of Roger
> 
> ...


I guess the real question is, is Ryuma being scaled to PK level then? Cause I don't think Shanks/Mihawk mid diff him lmao.


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## kozuki (Sep 12, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> This is what Oden looked like in front of Roger


We're talking about Prime Oden here, not non Prime Oden.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Great Potato (Sep 12, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> I guess the real question is, is Ryuma being scaled to PK level then? Cause I don't think Shanks/Mihawk mid diff him lmao.



It should be acknowledged that Ryuma was the WSM of his time rather than just the WSS.
So he was the Whitebeard of his generation rather than the Mihawk.

I don't think he gets scaled to Prime Whitebeard or Roger since we don't know if he saw the same level of competition in his era and Whitebeard was able to retain the WSM title even in old-age, but it's still an extremely prestigious ranking. Oda is also building heavy parallels to Zoro who is destined to surpass Mihawk.

I'd personally rank him somewhere in the gap between Roger and Mihawk/Shanks; maybe on the level of pre-skip Whitebeard before being stabbed by Squardo. 



kozuki said:


> We're talking about Prime Oden here, not non Prime Oden.



That was Oden after 4 years of serving on Whitebeard's ship having countless adventures. Was there mention of him seeing a big growth after the fact?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## kozuki (Sep 12, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> That was Oden after 4 years of serving on Whitebeard's ship having countless adventures. Was there mention of him seeing a big growth after the fact?


Yup. He also received the scars that he got during his time with the Roger pirates, lots of shit happend during that one year. Look at how much Luffy developed in just 2 weeks when he was in Kaido's prison.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Fel1x (Sep 12, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> It's likely the people voting mid-diff don't believe that Oden pushes those guys to high-diff either.
> 
> This is what Oden looked like in front of Roger
> 
> ...


its the same as judging Luffy's strength by beginning of post-ts

Prime Oden is like 2x times stronger than Oden in the panels you provided

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Grinningfox (Sep 12, 2021)

How people think it’s honest to scale from  pre ACoC Oden is beyond me


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## Oda Report (Sep 13, 2021)

kozuki said:


> Ryuma never had to deal with 2 usurpers at the same time while being blackmailed with the lives of the citizens and hostages. Ryuma never faced someone who is impossible to kill due to a unbreakable barrier.



What are you talking about?

That does not debunk my point that Ryuuma has fought against the Pirates ( Oden lost to pirates) and all manner of folks trying to rob Wano of its treasure defeat ryuuma etc etc.

Point is Ryuuma was strong enough to defend wano from whom ever, died to a sickness and not some pirates pulling pirate tricks.




kozuki said:


> What are you talking about? Ryuma lived in a completely different time. He wasn't alive during Oden's lifetime where guys like Roger, WB, Garp, Sengoku, Kaido, Big Mom, or Shiki existed. If Ryuma lived during a time where weaker opponents existed, ofc Ryuma would have it easier to become a legend.



lol Ryuuma mirrors Miahwk he will be just fine, while Oden lost to a guy Moria was able to equal. Please

Ryuuma > Oden



kozuki said:


> No. Kaido was already considered invincible when Oden faced him.



Then Moriah must have ACoC LMAO! Like Luffy, oh wait it doesnt matter because Zoro can make the so called invincible GTFO the way of an one sword style attack. lol



kozuki said:


> Kaido fought Moria 5 years before when he faced Oden and
> 1)Moria was much stronger back then.



LMAO



kozuki said:


> 2)Kaido destroyed Moria and his crew.



Moriah lived and it was stated Moriah was kaidous equal.



kozuki said:


> 3)Kaido became stronger during those 5 years and strengthened his army while Oden made a fool out of himself for those 5 years and still rocked Kaido's shit.



Thats why he failed.

Ryuuma > Oden cake walk, couldnt play that nonsense with Ryuuma.



kozuki said:


> Any admiral would whoop his ass.



Yet Purple Tiger didnt, he showed fear, like Big Mom pleading to kaidou to dodge Zoros attack for fear of damage.

LMAO

Please.



kozuki said:


> What are you talking about? It was current Kaido who said that he considers Rocks, Roger, WB, Oden, and Shanks as one of the few people who can fight him. Apprentice Kaido (Who was 21 years old 38 years ago) obviously saw Rocks fight so he's able to estimate how his current self would do against Rocks.



Thats not canon, Kaidou was asking how high will Luffys ceiling go, Kaidou cant compete against those chars, its a fact for the simple fact Kaidou and YOU admitted that Kaidou couldn't beat Oden fair and square.

NEXT



kozuki said:


> 1.Current Kaido whooped all of them (Luffy, Zoro, Kid, Law, Scabbards, Yamato) on his own.



So



kozuki said:


> 2.The Kaido which Oden faced is stronger than the Kaido Moria faced, and Moria and his crew got destroyed by Kaido.



Not stronger then the one Zoro and co faced who Zoro made shit fruity pebbles along with Big Mom. LOL




kozuki said:


> 3.Kaido was near 40 when he faced Oden and considered invincible.



Yet that wasnt a factor when Zoro faced him with a blade he only spent a few hours or a day with. LMAO



kozuki said:


> 4.Current Kaido considering Oden as one of the few people who can fight him proves that there isn't much difference in strength between current Kaido and  the Kaido Oden faced. What, you think Kaido would put Zoro in his Top 5 after this? Sorry to crush your dreams but unless Zoro beats an admiral, Kaido would never even think of putting him in his list.



Then he must of equaled Rocks at some point wait a min..........NAH.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## kozuki (Sep 13, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> That does not debunk my point that Ryuuma has fought against the Pirates


Again, did Ryuma live during the time of Rocks, Roger, WB, Garp, Sengoku, Big Mom, and Shiki? No? Then it doesn't matter cause we don't know how strong people during his lifetime were.


Oda Report said:


> Point is Ryuuma was strong enough to defend wano from whom ever, died to a sickness and not some pirates pulling pirate tricks.


You're ignoring the facts that Ryuma didn't have to deal with 2 usurpers at the same time. If Ryuma switched with Oden, Ryuma would get citizens and hostages killed by trying to kill Orochi, only for the old man with the barrier to stop any move Ryuma makes on Orochi.


Oda Report said:


> lol Ryuuma mirrors Miahwk he will be just fine


In what way, other than a black blade, does he mirror Mihawk? Even Mihawk wouldn't do better if he were in Oden's position, a unbreakable barrier will always be unbreakable to every character in the story.


Oda Report said:


> while Oden lost to a guy Moria was able to equal


It's as if you're unable to read. 
1.The Kaido which Oden faced is stronger than the Kaido Moria faced, and Moria and his crew got destroyed by Kaido. "Equal" my ass.
2.Kaido was near 40 when he faced Oden and considered invincible.
3.Oden was rocking Kaido's shit until Kaido had to get saved by an old hag.



Oda Report said:


> Ryuuma > Oden


According to you.


Oda Report said:


> Then Moriah must have ACoC LMAO! Like Luffy.


Moria got destroyed by Kaido, does being destroyed by Kaido mean that you got ACoC?


Oda Report said:


> Moriah lived and it was stated Moriah was kaidous equal.


Moria got destroyed by Kaido and lost his entire crew to him.


Oda Report said:


> Thats why he failed.


He "failed" cause Kaido was saved by an old hag, that wasn't Oden's fault.


Oda Report said:


> Ryuuma > Oden cake walk, couldnt play that nonsense with Ryuuma


Ryuma wouldn't be able to kill Orochi as long as the old man with the barrier fruit is there and Orochi, Kaido, and Kaido's army would threaten the lives of the citizens and hostages. Good luck with that.


Oda Report said:


> Yet Purple Tiger didnt, he showed fear, like Big Mom pleading to kaidou to dodge Zoros attack for fear of damage.


Fujitora showed fear?


Oda Report said:


> Thats not canon, Kaidou was asking how high will Luffys ceiling go, Kaidou cant compete against those chars, its a fact for the simple fact Kaidou and YOU admitted that Kaidou couldn't beat Oden fair and square.


What? Kaido can't compete against those chars? He's literally the strongest creature, what are you talking about? Yes I said that Kaido couldn't beat Oden fair and square, but my point is that those 5 are able to fight Kaido in a serious 1 vs 1 death match, that's why he put them in his list.


Oda Report said:


> Not stronger then the one Zoro and co faced who Zoro made shit fruity pebbles along with Big Mom.


Whatever makes you sleep a night


Oda Report said:


> Yet that wasnt a factor when Zoro faced him with a blade he only spent a few hours or a day with.


What does that have to do with anything?


Oda Report said:


> Then he must of equaled Rocks at some point wait a min..........NAH.


I already told you that Kaido must've seen Rocks fighting numerous of times, so his current self is able to estimate how he would do against him. Would Kaido beat him? Maybe, maybe not. Prob not cause the dude took on Garp and Roger, but it would be high diff on either side.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Oda Report (Sep 13, 2021)

kozuki said:


> Again, did Ryuma live during the time of Rocks, Roger, WB, Garp, Sengoku, Big Mom, and Shiki? No? Then it doesn't matter cause we don't know how strong people during his lifetime were.



That's NOT how this works, Oden failed to defend wano from the same types of evils Ryuuma banished with EZ.
Hence why Ryuuma sword is far more precious then Enma, same for the legend. Zoro is looking to surpass Ryuuma at the end of this arc Oden been old soup new.

Next



kozuki said:


> You're ignoring the facts that Ryuma didn't have to deal with 2 usurpers at the same time. If Ryuma switched with Oden, Ryuma would get citizens and hostages killed by trying to kill Orochi, only for the old man with the barrier to stop any move Ryuma makes on Orochi.



Stop repeating yourself this is a Pirate, Oden was a pirate on the 2 best Pirate ships in history until SH crew finishes. . .Oden failed against a pirates simple trick. Ryuuma while wano was known as the country of gold defended it all from all manners of pirates and WG.

That's not an excuse for Oden try again.



kozuki said:


> In what way, other than a black blade, does he mirror Mihawk? Even Mihawk wouldn't do better if he were in Oden's position, a unbreakable barrier will always be unbreakable to every character in the story.



Mihawk trained the guy who made kaidou GTFO the way from a one sword style attack, Zoro after time skip is just now repicating Mihawk........and you tell me he wouldn't do better when he is the strongest swordsman in the OP world with out a doubt?  stronger or equal then Shanks lol OK

Fanboi



kozuki said:


> It's as if you're unable to read.
> 1.The Kaido which Oden faced is stronger than the Kaido Moria faced, and Moria and his crew got destroyed by Kaido. "Equal" my ass.



Thats not the events in the story, if Morah got crushed as you put it, his will would of been crushed, guess what it wasn't he was on the way back to the new world.



kozuki said:


> 2.Kaido was near 40 when he faced Oden and considered invincible.



Was considered invincible when Zoro was about to unleash that one sword style attack until Big Mom ordered kaidou to avoid it LMAO if hyerbole wasn't a word like LMAO again.



kozuki said:


> 3.Oden was rocking Kaido's shit until Kaido had to get saved by an old hag.



Thats still not an excuse, like Ive said at the start of this arugment, Pirates gonna Pirate.



kozuki said:


> According to you.
> 
> Moria got destroyed by Kaido, does being destroyed by Kaido mean that you got ACoC?



If he got destroyed in the manner you are talking about, there should of been no equal talk.

Too bad that's not the case.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Kroczilla (Sep 13, 2021)

Just to add to the conversation about Prime Oden, it should be noted that the Oden Roger bodied didn't know jack about AdCoc. That clearly changed once he returned to Wano. It's the equivalent of comparing Pre-Udon Luffy to his current version.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## kozuki (Sep 13, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> That's NOT how this works, Oden failed to defend wano from the same types of evils Ryuuma banished with EZ.


Oh really? Any source where it was said that Ryuma had to deal with 2 usurpers who blackmailed him with the lives of the citizens and hostages? Any source where it was said that Ryuma had to deal with someone who got the barrier fruit?


Oda Report said:


> Hence why Ryuuma sword is far more precious then Enma, same for the legend


As I was saying, Ryuma died a hundred years ago and we don't know how strong the people during his lifetime were, so ofc his legacy was easier to accomplish. Give Oden or Mihawk a 100 years after their deaths and both would be treated the same way. Ryuma got hype, but Oden's feats shit on him and we can't just treat Ryuma as if he lived during the time where the likes of Roger, WB, Garp, Sengoku, Kaido, Big Mom, and Shiki lived. For all we know, all the people during Ryuma's lifetime where a bunch of fodders and Ryuma was the only one with actual skill, which made him stand out and caused people to look at him as if he's something really special. WE DON'T KNOW. All that Ryuma has going for him is the black blade WHICH ROGER AND SHANKS ALSO DON'T HAVE, so you can't use that fact above Oden when he never even tried to get a black blade and had to deal with several other things.


Oda Report said:


> Zoro is looking to surpass Ryuuma at the end of this arc Oden been old soup new.


LMAO. Zoro won't surpass Ryuma until the eos.


Oda Report said:


> Stop repeating yourself this is a Pirate, Oden was a pirate on the 2 best Pirate ships in history until SH crew finishes. . .Oden failed against a pirates simple trick.


Oden was a pirate on the 2 kindest pirate ships. Whitebeard and Roger are honorable men, so it makes totally sense why Oden had a completely different idea from what most pirates are. Whole point is that Kaido had to be saved and didn't defeat Oden by himself.


Oda Report said:


> Ryuuma while wano was known as the country of gold defended it all from all manners of pirates and WG.


Again, unless we know how strong the people in his lifetime were, anything you say is basically worthless. I doubt the people in Ryuma's lifetime were anywhere near as strong as Roger, WB, Garp, Sengoku, Kaido, Big Mom, and Shiki.


Oda Report said:


> That's not an excuse for Oden try again.


Excuse? It' the truth. Both lived in completely different times.


Oda Report said:


> Mihawk trained the guy who made kaidou GTFO the way from a one sword style attack, Zoro after time skip is just now repicating Mihawk........and you tell me he wouldn't do better when he is the strongest swordsman in the OP world with out a doubt?  stronger or equal then Shanks lol OK


Are you deaf dude? A unbreakable barrier is unbreakable to every character in the story, no matter how strong. Mihawk is not above Ryuma and neither of them would be able to get through the barrier.


Oda Report said:


> Fanboi


Talking about yourself?


Oda Report said:


> Thatsnot the events in the story, if Morah got crushed as you put it, his will would of been crushed, guess what it wasn't he was on the way back to the new world.


Moria got destroyed by Kaido and lost his entire crew to him. It litereally doesn't matter what you think.


Oda Report said:


> Was considered invincible when Zoro was about to unleash that one sword style attack until Big Mom ordered kaidou to avoid it LMAO if hyerbole wasn't a word like LMAO again.


ok oda


Oda Report said:


> Thats still not an excuse, like Ive said at the start of this arugment, Pirates gonna Pirate.


Not the point.


Oda Report said:


> If he got destroyed in the manner you are talking about, there should of been no equal talk.
> 
> Too bad that's not the case.


He got beaten by Kaido and lost his entire crew to him. If that's not him getting destroyed, then idk what else that is.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Oda Report (Sep 13, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Just to add to the conversation about Prime Oden, it should be noted that the Oden Roger bodied didn't know jack about AdCoc. That clearly changed once he returned to Wano. It's the equivalent of comparing Pre-Udon Luffy to his current version.



Thats fine it changes nothing.



kozuki said:


> Oh really? Any source where it was said that Ryuma had to deal with 2 usurpers who blackmailed him with the lives of the citizens and hostages? Any source where it was said that Ryuma had to deal with someone who got the barrier fruit?



its a manga about Pirates............does Oda really need to spoon feed you about Pirates and how they cant be trustred? I think shanks introduced us to how dirty Pirates can be.



kozuki said:


> As I was saying, Ryuma died a hundred years ago and we don't know how strong the people during his lifetime were, so ofc his legacy was easier to accomplish. Give Oden or Mihawk a 100 years after their deaths and both would be treated the same way.



Nope Oden is fresh in memory and failed, his legend should of surpassed Ryuumas aka sword god. He didn't because it wasn't greater, HENCE Odens own KIN trading that weak pokemon sword for Ryuumas blade.



kozuki said:


> LMAO. Zoro won't surpass Ryuma until the eos.



That will be Zoro surpassing Mihawk EOS not Ryuuma, just to play devil for a bit since this is tooo damn EZ. If it takes Zoro EOS to surpass Ryuuma then LMAO at Oden.....you arent helping your god in the least bit LMAO. We can stop at this point lol.



kozuki said:


> Oden was a pirate on the 2 kindest pirate ships. Whitebeard and Roger are honorable men, so it makes totally sense why Oden had a completely different idea from what most pirates are. Whole point is that Kaido had to be saved and didn't defeat Oden by himself.



Are you serious?


kozuki said:


> Again, unless we know how strong the people in his lifetime were, anything you say is basically worthless. I doubt the people in Ryuma's lifetime were anywhere as strong as Roger, WB, Garp, Sengoku, Kaido, Big Mom, and Shiki.



Shiki hasnt done shit in this manga, nor as sengoku, Grap etc etc





kozuki said:


> Excuse? It' the truth. Both lived in completely different times.



yet they both faced off against the same evils Pirates. LMAO



kozuki said:


> Are you deaf dude?



I cant hear sounds from ya posts..............dummy



kozuki said:


> A unbreakable barrier is unbreakable to every character in the story, no matter how strong. Mihawk is not above Ryuma and neither of them would be able to get through the barrier.



Mihawk is above Ryuuma and is Zoros goal if that wasn't the case Ryuuma would be the goal.

Zoro is able to break that barrier......



kozuki said:


> Talking about yourself?



You or any other *coded* loser who ignores story points.



kozuki said:


> Moria got destroyed by Kaido and lost his entire crew to him. It litereally doesn't matter what you think.
> 
> ok oda



That's the thing its not what I think its whats in the story, Moriah wanted and went back to the new world. Its stated Moriah equaled kaidou. His crew may of got bodied however Moriah more then sure held his ground against kaidou. 



kozuki said:


> Not the point.
> 
> He got beaten by Kaido and lost his entire crew to him. If that's not him getting destroyed, then idk what else that is.



I didnt see the fight, dont know if it was a 1v1 or all out battle all I know is what the story gives me.

Canon > Opinions

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## kozuki (Sep 13, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Thats fine it changes nothing.


To you.


Oda Report said:


> its a manga about Pirates............does Oda really need to spoon feed you about Pirates and how they cant be trustred? I think shanks introduced us to how dirty Pirates can be.


What does that have to do with anything I said?


Oda Report said:


> Nope Oden is fresh in memory and failed


That has nothing to do with anything.


Oda Report said:


> his legend should of surpassed Ryuumas aka sword god. He didn't because it wasn't greater


That's not how it works. A legacy is build up over the years and like I told you, Ryuma probably had it easier to become a legend due to him not having to live during the time where the likes of Roger, WB, Garp, Sengoku, Kaido, Big Mom, and Shiki were alive.


Oda Report said:


> That will be Zoro surpassing Mihawk EOS not Ryuuma


We'll see  


Oda Report said:


> If it takes Zoro EOS to surpass Ryuuma then LMAO at Oden.....you arent helping your god in the least bit LMAO. We can stop at this point lol.


Not sure what you're talking about but ok


Oda Report said:


> Are you serious?


Yes? I told you how it is, if Oden only left Wano with 29 and was part of the 2 most honorable pirates for 5 years, then it makes totally sense why he had a different idea about pirates.


Oda Report said:


> Shiki hasnt done shit in this manga, nor as sengoku, Grap etc etc


Wasn't it said that Shiki was one of Roger's rivals? Sounds good enough to me.


Oda Report said:


> yet they both faced off against the same evils Pirates. LMAO


???? I'll repeat what I said: "Any source where it was said that Ryuma had to deal with 2 usurpers who blackmailed him with the lives of the citizens and hostages? Any source where it was said that Ryuma had to deal with someone who got the barrier fruit?" Ryuma didn't have to face off against what Oden had to face off. Ryuma didn't live during a time where several legends were active and/or made.


Oda Report said:


> Mihawk is above Ryuuma and is Zoros goal if that wasnt the case Ryuuma would be the goal.


There's nothing that implies that Mihawk is above Ryuma. (same can be said the other way around tho)


Oda Report said:


> You or any other *coded* loser who ignores story points.


I never ignored any story point, unlike you who:
1)Puts Yamato below Zoro and King.
2)Thinks that Fujitora, Big Mom, and Kaido are scared of Zoro.
3)Thinks that Moria didn't get destroyed by Kaido even though he got beaten by him and lost his entire crew to him.


Oda Report said:


> That's the thing its not what I think its whats in the story, Moriah wanted and went back to the new world. Its stated Moriah equaled kaidou. His crew may of got bodied however Moriah more then sure held his ground against kaidou.


Are you serious? Kaido destroyed Moria so hard that he got traumatized, became weaker, and let himself go over the years.


Oda Report said:


> I didnt see the fight, dont know if it was a 1v1 or all out battle all I know is what the story gives me.
> 
> Canon > Opinions


sure

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Oda Report (Sep 13, 2021)

kozuki said:


> To you.



Point remains the same. 
again changes nothing. 



kozuki said:


> What does that have to do with anything I said?



Pirates do Pirate things like play underhanded tricks that bested Oden. I know you struggle with OP story now, god damn get ya baby bib for more spoon feeding. 


kozuki said:


> That has nothing to do with anything.



When you dice up the sentence like that  



kozuki said:


> That's not how it works. A legacy is build up over the years and like I told you, Ryuma probably had it easier to become a legend due to him not having to live during the time where the likes of Roger, WB, Garp, Sengoku, Kaido, Big Mom, and Shiki were alive.



Yeah I can say the same for any Pirate before the Great Age of Piracy. NOPE only a sucker would think like that, if Ryuuma legend didnt mean anything it would of been surpassed by Oden who failed to protect Wano, hell Odens sword play wasn't even close to Ryuuma. 



kozuki said:


> We'll see


Nothing to see its happened already, Zoro EOS goal is the guy who IS the strongest swordsman in the world, not Ryuuma who only stayed in wano or Oden who major feat is scaring Kaidou who Zoro checked off his list. 


kozuki said:


> Not sure what you're talking about but ok



Its you placing Ryuuma over Oden, talk about getting lapped in a debate. 



kozuki said:


> Yes? I told you how it is, if Oden only left Wano with 29 and was part of the 2 most honorable pirates for 5 years, then it makes totally sense why he had a different idea about pirates.



honorable? LMAO  please stop. 



kozuki said:


> Wasn't it said that Shiki was one of Roger's rivals? Sounds good enough to me.



Only Newgate could equal the Pirate king. 



kozuki said:


> ???? I'll repeat what I said: "Any source where it was said that Ryuma had to deal with 2 usurpers who blackmailed him with the lives of the citizens and hostages? Any source where it was said that Ryuma had to deal with someone who got the barrier fruit?" Ryuma didn't have to face off against what Oden had to face off. Ryuma didn't live during a time where several legends were active and/or made.



You can try to dress it up all you want, Oden lost to pirate games. While Ryuuma fells all manner of foes Pirates included. 



kozuki said:


> There's nothing that implies that Mihawk is above Ryuma. (same can be said the other way around tho)



WSS and Mihawk >= Shanks, not to mention Mihawk is a one man army like Ryuuma, with a black blade. Here where they differ....Mihawk sails around the entire OP looking for foes as strong or stronger then shanks. 

Stop ignoring story points. 



kozuki said:


> I never ignored any story point, unlike you who:



DONT MAKE ME COUNT HOW MANY TIMES YOU IGNORE STORY POINTS. 



kozuki said:


> 1)Puts Yamato below Zoro and King.



Yamato was a captive, King is the 2nd strongest of the crew, Yamato IF he was to be apart of the beast pirates she would of been defender of wano, nothing more nothing else while King can solo vs a yonkou and her crew, and go on suicide missions with Kaidou and come back alive vs Yonkou. 



kozuki said:


> 2)Thinks that Fujitora, Big Mom, and Kaido are scared of Zoro.



Ignoring more story points.
Purple tiger was shook by Zoro and his attack, Big Mom DID tell kaidou to avoid Zoros attack.......FACTS.



kozuki said:


> 3)Thinks that Moria didn't get destroyed by Kaido even though he got beaten by him and lost his entire crew to him.



Glad you switched the words to beat. 



kozuki said:


> Are you serious? Kaido destroyed Moria so hard that he got traumatized, became weaker, and let himself go over the years.
> 
> sure



Is that way he was heading back to the NW?

destroyed =/= beat. 

Try again.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Great Potato (Sep 13, 2021)

kozuki said:


> Yup. He also received the scars that he got during his time with the Roger pirates, lots of shit happened during that one year. Look at how much Luffy developed in just 2 weeks when he was in Kaido's prison.



That quote is saying he grew many times stronger than when he left from Wano, not many times stronger than when he left the Whitebeard Pirates. But the fact that he acquired aCoC would mean it's undeniable that he did get stronger, so you make a valid point regarding that.



kozuki said:


> Moria got destroyed by Kaido and lost his entire crew to him. It literally doesn't matter what you think.



Looking at just the outcome is a bad way to determine how the fight itself went. If you skip the fight and look just at the end result then Oden and all of his Scabbards all ended up in a cage being sentenced to death while Kaido's crew is basically fine. If losing a fight and having your whole crew defeated is being destroyed then Luffy destroyed nearly every arc villain he's faced as those usually end with their entire organization defeated while the Strawhats never suffer a single casualty.

Kaido geared up for war against Moria, it was a crew vs crew fight where he even dragged King & Queen with him, it wasn't Kaido running solo on the Gecko Pirates. The fact that he brought all of his forces means he registered Moria as a threat. Not only was Moria's fight with Kaido worthy enough for Oden to remember his name and note them as one of the significant events in his journal, but word of the fight even managed to spread across the seas outside of isolationist Wano and Moria gained a lot of fame for the resistence he put up against him. That Moria was in condition to get away and desecrate Ryuma's grave also speaks well because Kaido would have tried to take him prisoner if he could.

Though it should say more about Prime Moria's strength than Kaido's weakness.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Optimistic 1


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## kozuki (Sep 13, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Point remains the same.
> again changes nothing.


Except it does.


Oda Report said:


> Pirates do Pirate things like play underhanded tricks that bested Oden. I know you struggle with OP story now, god damn get ya baby bib for more spoon feeding.


???? I said "Any source where it was said that Ryuma had to deal with 2 usurpers who blackmailed him with the lives of the citizens and hostages? Any source where it was said that Ryuma had to deal with someone who got the barrier fruit?" So your reply to that made no sense.


Oda Report said:


> Yeah I can say the same for any Pirate before the Great Age of Piracy. NOPE only a sucker would think like that, if Ryuuma legend didnt mean anything it would of been surpassed by Oden who failed to protect Wano, hell Odens sword play wasn't even close to Ryuuma.


Seems like your brain is too small for you to understand what I said. I already told you that a legacy is build up over the years and that Ryuma didn't live during the time where many legends were active and/or made, like Oden, so Ryuma had it easier to become a legend.


Oda Report said:


> Nothing to see its happened already, Zoro EOS goal is the guy who IS the strongest swordsman in the world, not Ryuuma


Sword God>Greatest Swordsman that is currently alive.


Oda Report said:


> or Oden who major feat is scaring Kaidou who Zoro checked off his list


Except Zoro isn't on his level yet, ganged up on Kaido, and barely managed to scar Kaido who was still completely fine and standing after that while Oden almost killed Kaido and traumatized him to this very day.


Oda Report said:


> Its you placing Ryuuma over Oden, talk about getting lapped in a debate.


Said the one who puts Zoro and King above Yamato just out of spite.


Oda Report said:


> honorable? LMAO  please stop.


Stop what?


Oda Report said:


> Only Newgate could equal the Pirate king.


And Shiki.
And Garp.
And Sengoku.
Please.


Oda Report said:


> You can try to dress it up all you want, Oden lost to pirate games. While Ryuuma fells all manner of foes Pirates included.


Doesn't matter what you say since you're being ignorant, Ryuma didn't have to deal with the forces Oden had to deal with nor was he blackmailed with the lives of the citizens and hostages.


Oda Report said:


> WSS and Mihawk >= Shanks, not to mention Mihawk is a one man army like Ryuuma, with a black blade. Here where they differ....Mihawk sails around the entire OP looking for foes as strong or stronger then shanks.


Sword God>Greatest Swordsman that is currently alive .


Oda Report said:


> Stop ignoring story points.


Stop being a hypocrite and accusing me of things when you're the one who keeps mentioning things that neve happened.


Oda Report said:


> DONT MAKE ME COUNT HOW MANY TIMES YOU IGNORE STORY POINTS.


For example?


Oda Report said:


> Yamato was a captive, King is the 2nd strongest of the crew, Yamato IF he was to be apart of the beast pirates she would of been defender of wano, nothing more nothing else while King can solo vs a yonkou and her crew, and go on suicide missions with Kaidou and come back alive vs Yonkou.


I like how the only reason you hype King up like this is to wank Zoro since he'll beat him.  
But no, Yamato>King.


Oda Report said:


> Ignoring more story points.


Said the hypocrite.


Oda Report said:


> Purple tiger was shook by Zoro and his attack, Big Mom DID tell kaidou to avoid Zoros attack.......FACTS.


Fujitora wasn't afraid of him and Zoro's slash wouldn't have done anything to Kaido when it took Zoro's strongest attack to injure Kaido.


Oda Report said:


> Glad you switched the words to beat.


Beat, destroy, whatever.


Oda Report said:


> Is that way he was heading back to the NW?


Wasn't that only because he was searching for Absalom?


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## Oda Report (Sep 13, 2021)

kozuki said:


> ???? I said "Any source where it was said that Ryuma had to deal with 2 usurpers who blackmailed him with the lives of the citizens and hostages? Any source where it was said that Ryuma had to deal with someone who got the barrier fruit?" So your reply to that made no sense.


Oden failed stop making excuses.


kozuki said:


> Seems like your brain is too small for you to understand what I said. I already told you that a legacy is build up over the years and that Ryuma didn't live during the time where many legends were active and/or made, like Oden, so Ryuma had it easier to become a legend.



While wano was known as the country of gold Nah, Ryuumas legend still going strong while Oden is....yeah he failed.



kozuki said:


> Sword God>Greatest Swordsman that is currently alive.



Mihawk Vista & Ryuuma are known as Dai-Kengo, and Mihawk is known as the strongest Dai-Kengo and Zoro's EOS dream goal again you are wrong. 

Stop ignoring story points.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## kozuki (Sep 14, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Oden failed stop making excuses.


I'm not making excuses, I literally said how it happened, Oden had to deal with 2 usurpers who blackmailed him with the lives of the citizens and hostages, and one of them was protected by a guy with a unbreakable barrier, and as Oden was about to kill one of the usurpers, someone distracted Oden by making him think that his son got taken hostage, so the usurper got saved.


Oda Report said:


> While wano was known as the country of gold Nah, Ryuumas legend still going strong while Oden is....yeah he failed.


Like I said: "I already told you that a legacy is build up over the years and that Ryuma didn't live during the time where many legends were active and/or made, like Oden, so Ryuma had it easier to become a legend."

Even Usopp could become a legend if he lived during a timeline where other characters are weaker than him.


Oda Report said:


> Mihawk Vista & Ryuuma are known as Dai-Kengo, and Mihawk is known as the strongest Dai-Kengo


Source?


Oda Report said:


> Stop ignoring story points.


Stop being a hypocrite and accusing me of doing something that I'm not doing.


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