# Jutsu Clash: Amaterasu vs FRS



## Itachі (Nov 12, 2014)

*Amaterasu vs Futon: Rasenshuriken*

Rasenshuriken is thrown by a base Naruto 60 metres away from Itachi, Itachi casts Amaterasu on it while it's still around 50 metres away, what happens?​


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## Trojan (Nov 12, 2014)

Rasengan > Amatersu

FRS >>>>>>>> Amatersu.


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## Itachі (Nov 12, 2014)

I wonder if Itachi could cancel out the FRS by applying more Chakra to his Amaterasu instead of it combining with Futon and becoming even stronger.



Hussain said:


> Rasengan > Amatersu



From what did you come to this conclusion?


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## Trojan (Nov 12, 2014)

in no universe does itachi have more chakra though.



> From what did you come to this conclusion?



The Legend Vs Sasuke


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## Itachі (Nov 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> in no universe does itachi have more chakra though.



Never said that he did. Amaterasu has incinerating properties though, it was able to completely destroy Sasuke's Katon. It has a chance of destroying things that are Chakra based.



Hussain said:


> The Legend Vs Sasuke



I'm pretty sure that Naruto never used a base Rasengan against Sasuke's Amaterasu/Enton.


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## Nurito (Nov 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> in no universe does itachi have more chakra though.



Itachi has more chakra than a fucking FRS from base Naruto.


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## Alex Payne (Nov 12, 2014)

Clash would result in explosion of Enton FRS imo. Sasuke matching chakra levels for techniques to combine into one was a big deal and got mad praise so a simple imbalance would result in a preemptive detonation.


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## Trojan (Nov 12, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Never said that he did. Amaterasu has incinerating properties though, it was able to completely destroy Sasuke's Katon. It has a chance of destroying things that are Chakra based.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that Naruto never used a base Rasengan against Sasuke's Amaterasu/Enton.



- Sasuke's katon is C-rank jutsu. 
- Sasuke used Kurama's chakra as well, so that's even out, and still the Rassengan was the superior one. 



Nurito said:


> Itachi has more chakra than a fucking FRS from base Naruto.



Irrelevant. Is he going to put all of his chakra in that attack and die? No.


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## Itachі (Nov 12, 2014)

Alex Payne said:


> Clash would result in explosion of Enton FRS imo. Sasuke matching chakra levels for techniques to combine into one was a big deal and got mad praise so a simple imbalance would result in a preemptive detonation.



That makes sense actually.



Hussain said:


> - Sasuke's katon is C-rank jutsu.
> - Sasuke used Kurama's chakra as well, so that's even out, and still the Rassengan was the superior one.



Not saying that they are comparable, just saying that Amaterasu can burn through Chakra based constructs. That's why I said it has a chance.

Pretty sure that they both ended up losing an arm, nobody won.


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## Trojan (Nov 12, 2014)

- Yeah, but the Rassengan made the Enton vanish or something (I don't know wha word to use to describe what happened) Not to mention that was Enton + Chidori as well. 

- No, Naruto ended up winning as Sasuke stated, who was knocked out in the process. Which is irrelevant either way because itachi is not near to that level anyway. Enton by itself is superior to Amatersu, let alone Enton + Chidori.


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## Gibbs (Nov 12, 2014)

I think that the FRS would hit Itachi before the Amaterasu burns it enough to disrupt the balance.


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## Itachі (Nov 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> - Yeah, but the Rassengan made the Enton vanish or something (I don't know wha word to use to describe what happened) Not to mention that was Enton + Chidori as well.
> 
> - No, Naruto ended up winning as Sasuke stated, who was knocked out in the process. Which is irrelevant either way because itachi is not near to that level anyway. Enton by itself is superior to Amatersu, let alone Enton + Chidori.



Don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Naruto won because Sasuke's objective was to kill him. At a physical standpoint, they both lost since they couldn't move.


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## Trojan (Nov 12, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Don't understand what you're trying to say here.
> 
> Naruto won because Sasuke's objective was to kill him. At a physical standpoint, they both lost since they couldn't move.



- Look to what happened to the Enton here
[9.1]
it became irrelevant. lol

- I disagree, but it does not matter, as I don't want to go to irrelevant topic here.


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## Itachі (Nov 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> - Look to what happened to the Enton here
> [9.1]
> it became irrelevant. lol
> 
> - I disagree, but it does not matter, as I don't want to go to irrelevant topic here.



You can still see the flames though, Enton also wasn't the main part of Sasuke's attack, it was Chidori, which probably takes up some of the white space.

No matter what way you look at it, neither participants were able to move and neither of them could kill the other after their clash.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 12, 2014)

This isn't open to debate. 

Amaterasu > Cerebrus > FRS


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## Gibbs (Nov 12, 2014)

Enton was dispersed by the Rasengan's effect.


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## Trojan (Nov 12, 2014)

Itachі said:


> You can still see the flames though, Enton also wasn't the main part of Sasuke's attack, it was Chidori, which probably takes up some of the white space.
> 
> No matter what way you look at it, neither participants were able to move and neither of them could kill the other after their clash.



- yeah, the flam were going away (if thats the right word to use ) and that's a ragular Rassengan, let a lone FRS. @>@

- Ok, I would rather take Sasuke's words though. 
+ Naruto did not want to kill him to begin with, in case you missed his words.


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## Hachibi (Nov 12, 2014)

Katon (Amaterasu count) has superiority to Futon according to the elemental wheel (tho that ended forgotten by Kishi) unless the Futon technique is far stronger than the Katon one, which isn't the case here.

Amaterasu has the advantage here.


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## Itachі (Nov 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> I told you Sasuke used that same chakra as well, when he stole Naruto's chakra, so that was not a regular Enton/Chidoi as well, which even them out in that regard.
> 
> as for the whole Naruto Vs Sasuke, as I told you, I don't want to go there. We will have to agree to disagree.



I know that, but you said that Naruto used a regular Rasengan which is false. 

I agree with you that Sasuke lost overall, but in the battle they both came to a tie. Regardless of what Naruto could have done differently, in _that_ battle they stalemated.


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## Hachibi (Nov 12, 2014)

How did this turn into a Naruto vs Sasuke debate?


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## Itachі (Nov 12, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> How did this turn into a Naruto vs Sasuke debate?



Because both have Rasengan/Rasenshuriken and Amaterasu/Enton.


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## TheGreen1 (Nov 12, 2014)

Well, under normal circumstances, basically all of them, Rasenshuriken will be engulfed in flames, because wind enhances fire moves. It just depends on which is going faster, and I think that unless Sasuke uses Enton arrows, FRS will be traveling faster.


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## Itachі (Nov 12, 2014)

TheGreen1 said:


> Well, under normal circumstances, basically all of them, Rasenshuriken will be engulfed in flames, because wind enhances fire moves. It just depends on which is going faster, and I think that unless Sasuke uses Enton arrows, FRS will be traveling faster.



This is Itachi using his eyes to cast Amaterasu on FRS.


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## TheGreen1 (Nov 12, 2014)

Itachі said:


> This is Itachi using his eyes to cast Amaterasu on FRS.



I only used the Enton Arrow as an example of force clashing. Itachi would just be making things worse for himself if he cast Amaterasu on FRS, even if he can quell the Amaterasu flames, there's a fuckton of them in that technique.


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## Itachі (Nov 12, 2014)

TheGreen1 said:


> I only used the Enton Arrow as an example of force clashing. Itachi would just be making things worse for himself if he cast Amaterasu on FRS, even if he can quell the Amaterasu flames, there's a fuckton of them in that technique.



Oh right. I think it could go either way, Amaterasu has a massive elemental advantage as it's the strongest form of Katon but Rasenshuriken is also damn powerful and Itachi may end up sending a hot mess towards himself.


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## TheGreen1 (Nov 12, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Oh right. I think it could go either way, Amaterasu has a massive elemental advantage as it's the strongest form of Katon but Rasenshuriken is also damn powerful and Itachi may end up sending a hot mess towards himself.



Well, Itachi's going to have a hot mess, period. He's not stopping the Jutsu with fire. He'll only make a huge Amaterasu Fireball. I think he'd just end up adding flames to the Wind-Ball-O-Death and just have an even worse jutsu coming after him.


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## JuicyG (Nov 12, 2014)

*EoS Base Naruto's FRS RAPES Itachi's Amaterasu*

*Seriously guys, com'on *


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Nov 12, 2014)

Alex Payne said:


> Clash would result in explosion of Enton FRS imo.


This because



Hachibi said:


> unless the Futon technique is far stronger than the Katon one, which isn't the case here.
> 
> Amaterasu has the advantage here.


Wouldn't imagine it going any other way.


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## RedChidori (Nov 12, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Katon (Amaterasu count) has superiority to Futon according to the elemental wheel (tho that ended forgotten by Kishi) unless the Futon technique is far stronger than the Katon one, which isn't the case here.
> 
> Amaterasu has the advantage here.



This .


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## JuicyG (Nov 12, 2014)

EoS Naruto's enhanced Riduko FRS is superior and would override the elemental wheel against the Amaterasu.

*Do we remember that Naruto's normal rasengan cancelled out Sasuke Amaterasu/Chidori in CH 699 ?*


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 12, 2014)

FRS wins IMO. We're talking Rasengan + Wind Chakra, which should be superior to a Katon. 

On top of that all, FRS moves at an extreme pace, suggesting it detonates before it travels 50m because of some flames is pretty ridiculous, that would mean Amaterasu detonates it in a fraction of a second, which isn't happening. 

Sasuke's Enton Arrow did not detonate Naruto's COFRS, which traveled more than 50m after being hit by the arrow, and only turned into a bonfire once it hit the Juubi. Granted, Tobirama suggested the chakra ratio was perfectly equal, I highly doubt Itachi's Amaterasu release > FRS in chakra. 

Assuming Naruto expands it [1], the Amaterasu does nothing to it, the wind blows it around the Rasengan, and Itachi is hit with it.


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## Veracity (Nov 12, 2014)

[1]
Unless this is Eos Naruto.


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## JuicyG (Nov 12, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> [1]
> Unless this is Eos Naruto.



*No this*
[1]

Naruto was fighting someone STRONGER than Itachi and cancelled out Amaterasu with a normal Rasengan. EoS Naruto's FRS would overwhelm Itachi's Amaterasu


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## Veracity (Nov 12, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> *No this*
> this
> 
> Naruto was fighting someone STRONGER than Itachi and cancelled out Amaterasu with a normal Rasengan. EoS Naruto's FRS would overwhelm Itachi's Amaterasu



To be honest we have no idea what happened there at all. The Raiton effect Sasuke used could have been absolutely useless and Enton itself could have triggered resengan and caused they explosion. We also don't know for a fact if that specific amount of damage output is needed to trigger the explosion. Amaterasu most certainly isn't stronger then FRS in any means, but it doesn't have to be to ignite the sphere and cause it to explode. 

Yamato seems fairly certain that Sasukes pis poor Katons were gonna get the best of Naruto's FRS after seeing it create a massive crater- and amaterasu is on a completely different level.


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## Nikushimi (Nov 12, 2014)

Katon>Fuuton

Amaterasu consumes FRS and grows larger, then dissipates before it reaches Itachi (either because it eats through FRS completely or Itachi just cancels it).


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## JuicyG (Nov 12, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Katon>Fuuton
> 
> Amaterasu consumes FRS and grows larger, then dissipates before it reaches Itachi (either because it eats through FRS completely or Itachi just cancels it).




FRS > Base Rasengan

Base Rasengan = Chidori enhanced Amaterasu

Funny how that works huh ?


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## Nikushimi (Nov 12, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> FRS > Base Rasengan
> 
> Base Rasengan = Chidori enhanced Amaterasu
> 
> Funny how that works huh ?



Naruto's Rasengan and Sasuke's Chidori are roughly equal Jutsu. Slamming them together results in an explosion with or without Enton. We've seen this happen before.


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## JuicyG (Nov 13, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Naruto's Rasengan and Sasuke's Chidori are roughly equal Jutsu. Slamming them together results in an explosion with or without Enton. We've seen this happen before.




Suggesting Amaterasu had zero affect , yet it beats the stronger verison in FRS ?


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## Hachibi (Nov 13, 2014)

>Implying that what seem to be a Odama rasengan (since it's a little more larger than a normal one) can be given to a normal rasengan.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 13, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Naruto's Rasengan and Sasuke's Chidori are roughly equal Jutsu. Slamming them together results in an explosion with or without Enton. We've seen this happen before.


Well we don't know how Enton and Lightning work together, they may not help each other. 

That being said, we do know it did not help Sasuke's Chidori defeat Naruto's Palm Rasengan. And as you said, they clashed before and the result was similar, so there's two possibilities...

1. Enton gave Sasuke enough power to equal Naruto's Rasengan which was superior to his Chidori
2. Enton did nothing whatsoever as the unique power clash of Chidori + Rasengan diffused it by default 

My bet is on #1, as I find it hard to believe the author had Sasuke filter Enton into his Chidori if he didn't mean to make it stronger.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 13, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Suggesting Amaterasu had zero affect , yet it beats the stronger verison in FRS ?



It already did. 
Read Itachi & Nagato vs Kirabi & Naruto.

KCM FRS didn't do shit to cerebrus, Amaterasu burned it down to nothing in a couple of seconds.


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## KeyofMiracles (Nov 13, 2014)

Lol, the stupidity in this thread is overwhelming. We already saw Enton Flames vs Rasen Shuriken in canon. Amaterasu consumes the FRS. That's canon.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 13, 2014)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Lol, the stupidity in this thread is overwhelming. We already saw Enton Flames vs Rasen Shuriken in canon. Amaterasu consumes the FRS. That's canon.



are you saying that wasn't plot?


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## Lawrence777 (Nov 13, 2014)

I think it comes down to the force behind Amaterasu.

If there both moving at similar speed, it'll just absorb the FRS and become a bigger amaterasu headed for naruto. 

If Amaterasu has no inertia and just appears on target though, Amaterasu will still absorb it, but since FRS has velocity that bigger katon will be headed for Itachi. So amaterasu absorbs it either way, but their speed determines who that bigger katon heads for.


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## Bonly (Nov 13, 2014)

Ama hits FRS,the flames get bigger, and someone has a huge ball of Ama coming right at them


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## JuicyG (Nov 13, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> It already did.
> Read Itachi & Nagato vs Kirabi & Naruto.
> 
> KCM FRS didn't do shit to cerebrus, Amaterasu burned it down to nothing in a couple of seconds.



That doesnt explain away what happened in the final clash between Sasuke & Naruto. Also one jutsu may be better suited at a certain area than another, such as with Cerberus.  



DaVizWiz said:


> Well we don't know how Enton and Lightning work together, they may not help each other.
> 
> That being said, we do know it did not help Sasuke's Chidori defeat Naruto's Palm Rasengan. And as you said, they clashed before and the result was similar, so there's two possibilities...
> 
> ...




I agree.

Why would Sasuke spend extra chakra on Amaterasu+Chidori if it weren't going to help improve the chidori once so ever ?

*By this head -to-head match up we have Enton(Buffed) = Normal-slightly larger Base Rasengan
*


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 13, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> That doesnt explain away what happened in the final clash between Sasuke & Naruto. Also one jutsu may be better suited at a certain area than another, such as with Cerberus.


I know something that explains what happened in the final clash. Plot.


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## Icegaze (Nov 13, 2014)

Agree with grimmjaw on this 
Naruto rasengan has always been equal to sasuks chidori 
Yet somehow Enton boost did nothing 
It's obvious plot 
AMA eats FRS and comes straight for itachi as AMA has no velocity it won't redirect the FRS


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## JuicyG (Nov 13, 2014)

_"Plot" or not_, its canon. When I say its just a plot thing, (like with Jiraiya not showing sensing feats with Pain), I just get it thrown back in my face by a couple of BD regulars.  SMH Those double standards though...

Either way the Enton would still be redirected towards Itachi if it fully consumed FRS anyhow.


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## Gibbs (Nov 13, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Katon>Fuuton
> 
> Amaterasu consumes FRS and grows larger, then dissipates before it reaches Itachi (either because it eats through FRS completely or Itachi just cancels it).



DO you really believe the bullshit that you spout?


Amaterasu will not consume the FRS by the time it gets to Itachi. Amaterasu has zero velocity on it's own, it requires a projectile to be thrown with it equipped to have velocity. See Kagatsuchi Susano'O arrow when it meets up with COFRS heading towards the Juubi. It hits the FRS, but the FRS retains it's shape & vector with the same velocity it already had.


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## KeyofMiracles (Nov 13, 2014)

Have no idea why in the world people are using velocity and the direction of the attack as a determinant for the winner. This is a JUTSU clash. Whether or not Itachi can't change the direction of the FRS is irrelevant. FRS gets beaten in the clash, and that's all there is to it.


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## Gibbs (Nov 13, 2014)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Have no idea why in the world people are using velocity and the direction of the attack as a determinant for the winner. This is a JUTSU clash. Whether or not Itachi can't change the direction of the FRS is irrelevant. FRS gets beaten in the clash, and that's all there is to it.





, you need to re-read the OP




> *Amaterasu vs Futon: Rasenshuriken*
> 
> *Rasenshuriken is thrown* by a base Naruto 60 metres away from Itachi, Itachi casts Amaterasu on it while it's still around 50 metres away, what happens?


It inherently has velocity as it was thrown. FRS is way too fast for it to be completely eaten away before Itachi gets Liquefied & incinerated at the same time.

 is essentially what happens.


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## Zynn (Nov 14, 2014)

^I agree. If it was thrown before Amaterasu is cast, based on the speed normal FTS is travelling, all Itachi did is cementing his defeat by making the attack a literal wind-empowered un-extinguishable black flame ball. 

Also, that base rasengan vs chidori+enton? That rasengan was fueled by Kurama's chakra, and with how much chakra control Naruto had by the end of the manga, he managed to condense enough chakra to fuel a Chou Oodama Rasengan into one small ball of pure destruction. 

Fun fact: the denser Rasengan is, the bigger its destructive capability.


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## Deshi Basara (Nov 14, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> It already did.
> Read Itachi & Nagato vs Kirabi & Naruto.
> 
> KCM FRS didn't do shit to cerebrus, Amaterasu burned it down to nothing in a couple of seconds.




_
I think Cerburus got "UN-summoned" because Nagato went down:

But

After all, the two events were only seconds away from each-other:

But
But
_


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 14, 2014)

Deshi Basara said:


> _
> I think Cerburus got "UN-summoned" because Nagato went down:
> 
> But
> ...



Fanfiction, as Nagato wasn't taken down instantly, and we've seen a huge lump of black flames on where cerebrus was after he was shown rolling over covered in flames.


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## Deshi Basara (Nov 14, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Fanfiction, as Nagato wasn't taken down instantly, and we've seen a huge lump of black flames on where cerebrus was after he was shown rolling over covered in flames.



_Yeah, he was.Otherwise why didn't he do anything other than fall?

_


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 14, 2014)

Deshi Basara said:


> _Yeah, he was.Otherwise why didn't he do anything other than fall?
> 
> _



Because he died.


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## KeyofMiracles (Nov 14, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> , you need to re-read the OP
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

You need to re-read the OP..



> Amaterasu vs Futon: Rasenshuriken



That is the title of the thread, that is the battle here. FRS vs. Amaterasu. What happens to Itachi afterward is completely irrelevant to the answer of "Amaterasu vs. FRS" How hard can this be to understand? Why are people trying to argue against Amaterasu winning, based on something irrelevant to whether or not Amaterasu actually beats the jutsu or not.

FRS being too fast for it to be completely eaten before Itachi gets hit is nothing but a ridiculous, baseless assumption from you aside from all this. Naruto throws it, it crosses 10m, then Amaterasu eats it up, then:

A. Turns it off like someone else in this thread suggested.

B. Tanks with Susanoo.


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## JuicyG (Nov 14, 2014)

Zynn said:


> Also, that base rasengan vs chidori+enton? That rasengan was fueled by Kurama's chakra



The form the rasengan took was still a lesser version compared to the FRS when considering destructive capabilities. Which in the end still cancelled out the Enton+Chidori variant 




KeyofMiracles said:


> FRS vs. Amaterasu. What happens to Itachi afterward is completely irrelevant to the answer of "Amaterasu vs. FRS" How hard can this be to understand?



Its not hard to understand. Amaterasu engulfs FRS and Itachi dies...simple as that 



KeyofMiracles said:


> FRS being too fast for it to be completely eaten before Itachi gets hit is nothing but a ridiculous, baseless assumption from you aside from all this. Naruto throws it, it crosses 10m, then Amaterasu eats it up, then:
> A. Turns it off like someone else in this thread suggested.
> B. Tanks with Susanoo.




I would wager than Enton+FRS would break Susano. Because whats going to happen is a huge FRS+Amaterasu jutsu will be coming straight at Itachi, and considering EoS Naruto's strength, the FRS is probably super powerful..

Itachi will die


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 14, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> The form the rasengan took was still a lesser version compared to the FRS when considering destructive capabilities. Which in the end still cancelled out the Enton+Chidori variant
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He can slash through it with Totsuka or block it with Yata.


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## Kai (Nov 14, 2014)

FRS enhanced Amaterasu's flames as seen against the Juubi. Naruto was relieved when he told Yamato that "only wind can help fire and defeat lightning", which was the entire purpose of that relationship being manifested.

Lol to the notion of FRS sending Amaterasu back to the user. Amaterasu will consume FRS first and foremost.


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## KeyofMiracles (Nov 14, 2014)

> Its not hard to understand. Amaterasu engulfs FRS and Itachi dies...simple as that



See, this is what happens when people, for some odd reason, can't stick to the question that was asked.



> I would wager than Enton+FRS would break Susano. Because whats going to happen is a huge FRS+Amaterasu jutsu will be coming straight at Itachi, and considering EoS Naruto's strength, the FRS is probably super powerful..
> 
> Itachi will die



There is no Enton FRS. Its just Enton. Unless you think Enton is going to bust open Susanoo, then he tanks it, or turns it off as it is his flame that he created, and he's shown the ability to turn it off. I've received no reply to that part.

So no, Amaterasu shits on FRS in the Jutsu Clash, which is the whole point of the thread and you people debating whether or not Itachi dies is completely irrelevant, and Itachi lives.


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## Gibbs (Nov 14, 2014)

KeyofMiracles said:


> You need to re-read the OP..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Please learn to read & understand what the OP is asking about before you comment.

1. Itachi cannot simply turn it off like Sasuke can to make it go away, he can stop casting it however. But then you are still faced with a flying Amaterasu enhanced FRS coming straight for him.

2. Amaterasu does not consume other abilities that quickly.

3. FRS travels at a much quicker speed than Amaterasu does, furthermore you end up with what I posted earlier. the Amaterasu is on one spot, FRS flies through it, acquires the flames & keep traveling uninterrupted towards Itachi. 

4. See Naruto vs Pain, it traveled nearly the entire length of the Konoha crater quick enough that Animal Path (IIRC) couldn't react to it, despite the linked vision of the Pain paths. Oh and the Konoha Crater is much larger than the 60 meters as indicated in the OP.

5. Amaterasu has little or no mass to impede the FRS traveling through it. 

6. The title states jutsu vs jutsu, but the OP clarifies the situation, which you obviously disregarded simply to wank Itachi. Your true colors have shown. Go away troll.

Itachi dies because he cannot extinguish the flames.

End of story.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 14, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> Please learn to read & understand what the OP is asking about before you comment.
> 
> 1. Itachi cannot simply turn it off like Sasuke can to make it go away, he can stop casting it however. But then you are still faced with a flying Amaterasu enhanced FRS coming straight for him.



MS active




> 2. Amaterasu does not consume other abilities that quickly.


Katon of that size : MS active
was smothered within a second. MS active
And it was a meter or two away from Itachi's face.



> 3. FRS travels at a much quicker speed than Amaterasu does, furthermore you end up with what I posted earlier. the Amaterasu is on one spot, FRS flies through it, acquires the flames & keep traveling uninterrupted towards Itachi.


Amaterasu *appears* on the target. And then travels with the users gaze. 
Unless you believe FRS travels faster than Itachi's eyes can track, then you are wrong. In otherwords, you are wrong. :ignoramus



> 4. See Naruto vs Pain, it traveled nearly the entire length of the Konoha crater quick enough that Animal Path (IIRC) couldn't react to it, despite the linked vision of the Pain paths. Oh and the Konoha Crater is much larger than the 60 meters as indicated in the OP.


Animal realm couldn't react to it, but everyone else could. And Human realm  had enough time to grab animal realm and toss her in the air. Deva realm dodged it from point blank range. 



> 5. Amaterasu has little or no mass to impede the FRS traveling through it.


Amaterasu doesn't need to act like a wall to stop FRS, it just needs to consume it. That'll halt its momentum.



> 6. The title states jutsu vs jutsu, but the OP clarifies the situation, which you obviously disregarded simply to wank Itachi. Your true colors have shown. Go away troll.
> 
> Itachi dies because he cannot extinguish the flames.



Probably the situation is given so that you have a clear image of whats going on in your head. But the purpose of the thread is to see which jutsu would trump the other. Thats pretty clear imo.




> End of story.



Yup


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## Gibbs (Nov 14, 2014)

However, he can throw the Rasenshuriken quickly enough that this is  rarely necessary. When thrown, the Rasenshuriken becomes Naruto's  quickest attack, able to cross an entire Chibaku Tensei crater — which was roughly the size of a small mountain range — in less  than a single second. When it exploded, it took up a large part of that  same area.


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## KeyofMiracles (Nov 14, 2014)

> However, he can throw the Rasenshuriken quickly enough that this is rarely necessary. When thrown, the Rasenshuriken becomes Naruto's quickest attack, able to cross an entire Chibaku Tensei crater ? which was roughly the size of a small mountain range ? in less than a single second. When it exploded, it took up a large part of that same area.[11]



Lol, this clown actually cited Wiki. 

I highly suggest you stop posting now kid. Grimmjowsensei has said all that needs to be said. Your argument is pile of garbage.


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## Gibbs (Nov 14, 2014)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Lol, this clown actually cited Wiki.
> 
> I highly suggest you stop posting now kid. Grimmjowsensei has said all that needs to be said. Your argument is pile of garbage.



You and Grimmjowsensei  need to prove that the Amaterasu will destabilize or consume the FRS within a single second. Otherwise, it is losing.


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## Bonly (Nov 14, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> You and Grimmjowsensei  need to prove that the Amaterasu will destabilize or consume the FRS within a single second. Otherwise, it is losing.



When Sasuke used his large Enton arrow to mix with Naruto's large FRS, the Ama flames pretty much took over quickly and when Sasuke mixed a smaller amount of Enton with a normal size of Naruto's FRS the Ama flames took over quickly again. So it's not to much of a stretch to think the Ama flames from Itachi can spread very fast after clashing with FRS.


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## Hachibi (Nov 14, 2014)

>People giving SM Rasenshuriken's feats to Base Rasenshuriken, which cannot be throw (tho OP make Naruto been able to because otherwise it won't be debatable since Naruto will die form Amat before touching Itachi).


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## Gibbs (Nov 14, 2014)

Bonly said:


> When Sasuke used his large Enton arrow to mix with Naruto's large FRS, the Ama flames pretty much took over quickly and when Sasuke mixed a smaller amount of Enton with a normal size of Naruto's FRS the Ama flames took over quickly again. So it's not to much of a stretch to think the Ama flames from Itachi can spread very fast after clashing with FRS.


While I do agree with the majority of this post, what also needs to be noted is that the FRS maintained its shape & after effects as well. What this means is that the FRS absorbed the qualities of the Amaterasu/Enton & kept on going. 

I'm not arguing that the flames spread quickly after interacting (they do). I am arguing that the FRS will not be destroyed/destabilized.

Even in the page before that. FRS absorbing the Susano'O Enton Arrow


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## Itachі (Nov 14, 2014)

What happens to Itachi or Naruto is irrelevant here guys, it's about what Jutsu comes out on top.


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## Zynn (Nov 14, 2014)

If the FRS is thrown, then Naruto is in Sage Mode. 

Also, no matter what you think, Amaterasu in it base form is just an *inextinguishable* black fire. It does not detonate, it merely lit the target and starts to incinerate it until there is nothing left. If Amaterasu can burn a target within a single second, then Hachibi!B and Karin would have died instantly from Sasuke's Amaterasu. 

Also, fun fact: wind and fire elemental chakra actually *empowers *each other.


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## Itachі (Nov 14, 2014)

Zynn said:


> If the FRS is thrown, then Naruto is in Sage Mode.



Nah, he isn't. He's in Base, I've given him the ability to throw it.



> Also, fun fact: wind and fire elemental chakra actually *empowers *each other.



It's the Futon that amps up the Katon, though.


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## Zynn (Nov 14, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Nah, he isn't. He's in Base, I've given him the ability to throw it.



Ah, I see. Sorry about that.




> It's the Futon that amps up the Katon, though.



I guess this is true as well. However, my point still stands. Amaterasu in its base form is merely *inextinguishable *black fire. It does not have the capability to *instantly* incinerate something to nothingness. If Itachi casts it on an already-thrown FRS, that is sealing his own fate right there.


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## Gibbs (Nov 14, 2014)

Itachі said:


> What happens to Itachi or Naruto is irrelevant here guys, it's about what Jutsu comes out on top.


What is the criteria for victory?

Also, how much Amaterasu are we talking about here? The amount we saw on karin? the amount Itachi used against Sasuke's Katon? The Amount Sasuke Used on Killer Bee?


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## Itachі (Nov 14, 2014)

Zynn said:


> Ah, I see. Sorry about that.



No problem.




> I guess this is true as well. However, my point still stands. Amaterasu in its base form is merely *inextinguishable *black fire. It does not have the capability to *instantly* incinerate something to nothingness. If Itachi casts it on an already-thrown FRS, that is sealing his own fate right there.



That's true, but Itachi was still able to destroy Sasuke's Katon very easily. Katon: Gokakyu and FRS aren't comparable but Itachi did annihilate a fairly large Jutsu with Amaterasu.



The Phoenix King said:


> What is the criteria for victory?
> 
> Also, how much Amaterasu are we talking about here? The amount we saw on karin? the amount Itachi used against Sasuke's Katon? The Amount Sasuke Used on Killer Bee?



Whatever technique engulfs the other, the one with the largest ratio of itself in the combination.

Surface area of Naruto's FRS.


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## Zynn (Nov 14, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Whatever technique engulfs the other, the one with the largest ratio of itself in the combination.
> 
> Surface area of Naruto's FRS.



Ah, I see. So Itachi does not merely *lit*. He *engulfs* the FRS. Then, this means it is possible that FRS is overwhelmed. Possibility aside, though, Naruto's FRS is made of staggering amount of neutral chakra and wind elemental chakra, however, if we're talking purely about the competition between two Jutsu and not about who win between the two fighters, then by long term, Amaterasu would win hands down. It burns *everything *to nothingness, after all.


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## Itachі (Nov 14, 2014)

Zynn said:


> Ah, I see. So Itachi does not merely *lit*. He *engulfs* the FRS. Then, this means it is possible that FRS is overwhelmed. Possibility aside, though, Naruto's FRS is made of staggering amount of neutral chakra and wind elemental chakra, however, if we're talking purely about the competition between two Jutsu and not about who win between the two fighters, then by long term, Amaterasu would win hands down. It burns *everything *to nothingness, after all.



But couldn't FRS explode before Amaterasu has a large effect on it?


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## Gibbs (Nov 14, 2014)

Expanding the jutsu could give the Amaterasu enough force so that it is pushed off/suffocated


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## Zynn (Nov 14, 2014)

^Dude, Amaterasu is inextinguishable. Not only that, a large part of FRS is made of wind elemental chakra. In Narutoverse, wind empowers fire. Sure, FRS would be able to cut through a plain Katon jutsu, but we're talking about Amaterasu here. Exploding/expanding it would do nothing except throwing more fuel into the fire.


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## Gibbs (Nov 14, 2014)

It maybe inextinguishable, but if you take away its fuel it will die.


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## KeyofMiracles (Nov 14, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> You and Grimmjowsensei  need to prove that the Amaterasu will destabilize or consume the FRS within a single second. Otherwise, it is losing.



Except, The two times Naruto and Sasuke combined their FRS and Enton respectively explicitly show that they consume the FRS in a second. 



> While I do agree with the majority of this post, what also needs to be noted is that the FRS maintained its shape* & after effects as well. *What this means is that the FRS absorbed the qualities of the Amaterasu/Enton & kept on going.


Uh, no, it obviously didn't if you decided to look at the pages. The Enton RS hit the Juubi's body, and all that was shown were* pure flame*. No explosion, thus no aspect of FRS was left behind, and even if there were like there was when Naruto and Sasuke matched chakra ratios perfectly, the Rasengan in the middle only caused the Enton Flame to explode, at the end of the day, both attacks were Enton. 

Enton consumed FRS and grew in power. That is what happened. Nothing else. That is what manga shows and that is what is stated to happen when Katon and Fuuton meet.



> Expanding the jutsu could give the Amaterasu enough force so that it is pushed off/suffocated




1. A perfect Enton RS already exploded, what was the result? Oh wait, pure flame.

2. Pushing the flame off makes zero sense. Amaterasu isn't coating the FRS, it eats up the Wind thus the wind *BECOMES *fire. 

3. Expansion of the Wind Shuriken isn't going to "push" anything regardless, don't know where you got that from. Expansion of the Wind Shuriken is going to do nothing at all, the flame is just going to continue eating the FRS.

4. Even if this nonsense was possible, it'd have to do this in pretty much less than a second, which is impossible.

As OP stated, the criteria for victory is "Whichever Jutsu engulfs the other", something you tried so hard to contest even though it was so obvious from the get go. Manga has pretty much shown us Enton vs FRS, I have no idea why you people are trying your hardest to start a debate, over something that isn't debatable.


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## Zynn (Nov 14, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> It maybe inextinguishable, but if you take away its fuel it will die.




Oh ho. Yes, that's logical, because Amaterasu's target *is* its fuel. But then again, since this is merely a competition between the Jutsu, and the fighters are no longer part of the equation the moment they cast their techniques, I guess it'd end in stalemate anyway.


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## Hexa (Nov 14, 2014)

The normal rasengan, despite being weaker overall, is dramatically better suited to dealing with Amaterasu's flames than Fuuton: Rasenshuriken.   From Yamato's statement of elemental advantage, the FRS has to be on an entirely different level from Amaterasu for the jutsu to not lose outright.   Given the emphasis on the Enton/FRS combos in the war arc, they're more or less similar in level.  

Every other variation of Rasenshuriken would crush Amaterasu, though.


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## Gibbs (Nov 14, 2014)

Why can't the expansion of the FRS function similarly to Edo Nagato's Shinra Tensei?


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## KeyofMiracles (Nov 14, 2014)

^ Because that obviously isn't how it works. It doesn't push anything. Expanding isn't pushing, or repelling I should say.


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## Gibbs (Nov 14, 2014)

The expansion of the Yoton FRS created a shockwave that spread the entire diameter of the Juubi crater & beyond. Scale that down to a normal sized FRS & the flames will be pushed off.


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## Jagger (Nov 14, 2014)

Wind empowers Fire, that's an universal truth shown in Naruto. The entire purpose behind Yamato's statement and Naruto's answer is the proof of that as he says they aren't supposed to extinguish each other, but support each other.

But, given the nature of the attack and the circumstances, I believe Amaterasu will eventually FRS before it hits any target.


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## Hachibi (Nov 15, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> The expansion of the Yoton FRS created a shockwave that spread the entire diameter of the Juubi crater & beyond. Scale that down to a normal sized FRS & the flames will be pushed off.



Because a Rikudo Yoton RS (which is more made of magma than Futon mind you) is comparable in anyways with a normal FRS.


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## Bonly (Nov 15, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> While I do agree with the majority of this post, what also needs to be noted is that the FRS maintained its shape & after effects as well. What this means is that the FRS absorbed the qualities of the Amaterasu/Enton & kept on going.
> 
> I'm not arguing that the flames spread quickly after interacting (they do). I am arguing that the FRS will not be destroyed/destabilized.
> 
> Even in the page before that. FRS absorbing the Susano'O Enton Arrow



Ahh ok then when I first glance at your post I was more so talking about the bold below but in that case I agree that the FRS would still have it shuriken like shape for a little bit after the Ama flames hit



The Phoenix King said:


> You and Grimmjowsensei  need to prove that the Amaterasu will destabilize *or consume the FRS within a single second.* Otherwise, it is losing.


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## KeyofMiracles (Nov 15, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> *The expansion of the Yoton FRS created a shockwave that spread the entire diameter of the Juubi crater & beyond.* Scale that down to a normal sized FRS & the flames will be pushed off.



Uh, that was its explosion, not its expansion. We've already seen how FRS expands. That is not it. Not to mention there is no "pushing the flames off" The flames ARE apart of the technique. Flame eats Wind, it doesn't coat it. You can't "push it off". Makes no sense.


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## JuicyG (Nov 15, 2014)

Zynn said:


> ^Dude, Amaterasu is inextinguishable. Not only that, a large part of FRS is made of wind elemental chakra. In Narutoverse, wind empowers fire. Sure, FRS would be able to cut through a plain Katon jutsu, but we're talking about Amaterasu here. Exploding/expanding it would do nothing except throwing more fuel into the fire.




FRS isnt putting out the amaterasu.



*But whoever casts an amaterasu at a full powered FRS is going to get burnt, because the FRS is going to change the projectory of the amaertasu back at the caster, but only larger *


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## Gibbs (Nov 15, 2014)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Uh, that was its explosion, not its expansion. We've already seen how FRS expands. That is not it. Not to mention there is no "pushing the flames off" The flames ARE apart of the technique. Flame eats Wind, it doesn't coat it. You can't "push it off". Makes no sense.





Learn to read the manga please.
longer (Creation of the Yoton Rasenshuriken
longer  (Throws it)
longer (Expansion/burst)
  (Arrows pointing at the Shockwave)






Itachi uses Amaterasu on Nagato longer


longer (Still Burning)
longer  (Not anymore!!!)


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## Nikushimi (Nov 15, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Well we don't know how Enton and Lightning work together, they may not help each other.
> 
> That being said, we do know it did not help Sasuke's Chidori defeat Naruto's Palm Rasengan. And as you said, they clashed before and the result was similar, so there's two possibilities...
> 
> ...



I'm sure Enton made his Chidori "stronger" as well but I don't think it added to the force behind the attack and I don't think it mattered when Chidori and Rasengan collided with each other. The result was an explosion that pretty much swallowed everything around it indiscriminately.

So I'm going with #2.



JuicyG said:


> Suggesting Amaterasu had zero affect , yet it beats the stronger verison in FRS ?



Pretty much, yes.

Amaterasu has time to eat through FRS as it travels.

But it probably wouldn't make any difference if it was caught between one FRS-equivalent Jutsu slamming into another (it may matter for FRS itself because Katon>Fuuton, but that's a specific type advantage that wasn't present in the Chidori/Rasengan clash).


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## KeyofMiracles (Nov 15, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> Learn to read the manga please.
> longer (Creation of the Yoton Rasenshuriken
> longer  (Throws it)
> longer (Expansion/burst)
> (Arrows pointing at the Shockwave)



 Oh Jesus..... I highly suggest you take some Reading Comp classes before getting back to me, if I hadn't already suggested that. That shockwave was a result of the explosion of the RS, not the expansion. Do I have to show you what a Rasen Shuriken's expansion looks like?

longer

Rasengan is still in the middle, and the Area of Effect is the same size as the blade. On the other hand, when Yoton RS hit the Shinju, it didn't make a clean cut like it would have had it just expanded, it blew away a sizable chunk of the tree, and the RS itself wasn't even therte anymore. That isn't expansion, that is an EXPLOSION.

This is getting pretty ridiculous pal.


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## Jagger (Nov 15, 2014)

Unless Naruto throws FRS or uses a stronger version of the jutsu, Amaterasu is going to eat it if this supposed clash does not count Naruto reaching his target before it happens.


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## ATastyMuffin (Nov 15, 2014)

Why exactly would Amaterasu consume Rasenshuriken? As in, erase it?

In *both* cases we've seen, Amaterasu amplifies the technique to become a fiery Rasenshuriken. The chakra shuriken doesn't vanish, nor does it doesn't lose its original property of exploding into a chakra sphere (see, Naruto and Sasuke's tag-team against Obito).

So if Itachi used Amaterasu against Rasenshuriken, all that would happen is an *even stronger* Rasenshuriken headed his way.


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## Zynn (Nov 16, 2014)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Why exactly would Amaterasu consume Rasenshuriken? As in, erase it?
> 
> In *both* cases we've seen, Amaterasu amplifies the technique to become a fiery Rasenshuriken. The chakra shuriken doesn't vanish, nor does it doesn't lose its original property of exploding into a chakra sphere (see, Naruto and Sasuke's tag-team against Obito).
> 
> So if Itachi used Amaterasu against Rasenshuriken, all that would happen is an *even stronger* Rasenshuriken headed his way.



Yes, Amaterasu would certainly amplify the damage FRS would inflict. However, OP also clarified: 



Itachі said:


> What happens to Itachi or Naruto is irrelevant here guys, it's about what Jutsu comes out on top.



This thread is specifically about the competition between two Jutsu. Both fighters are no longer in the equation the moment they cast their respective techniques. 

In simple terms, it would be like this: 

1. Naruto throws FRS. 

2. Itachi casts Amaterasu on FRS. 

3. Both fighters leave the stage (via anything we can think of). 

4. FRS, lit by Amaterasu, continues to fly without any target to hit. 

Question: Would Amaterasu be able to overwhelm FRS in the end?


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## Hexa (Nov 16, 2014)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Why exactly would Amaterasu consume Rasenshuriken? As in, erase it?
> 
> In *both* cases we've seen, Amaterasu amplifies the technique to become a fiery Rasenshuriken. The chakra shuriken doesn't vanish, nor does it doesn't lose its original property of exploding into a chakra sphere (see, Naruto and Sasuke's tag-team against Obito).


Tobirama commented that the enton/FRS combinations are extremely difficult to execute.   Presumably, if Sasuke didn't properly sync the enton technique with the FRS, the combination would either explode or fizzle.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 16, 2014)

FRS's trajectory will push what ever outcome back towards Itachi. Or it could just slice straight through Amaterasu.

Also Enton=/=Amaterasu.


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## Jagger (Nov 16, 2014)

Enton and Amaterasu are made of the same chakra material, there's absolutely no difference between both in that sense.

One is pretty much the manipulation of flames while the other are the flames themselves.


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## Gibbs (Nov 16, 2014)

When you put it that way Zynn, I think the FRS stops due to lack of velocity & momentum and eventually the chakra disperses leaving the Amaterasu nothing to consume & it dies of natural causes.,


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