# who can defeat all dbs gods and angels?



## whatsausername (Mar 19, 2017)

no need to mention the obvious such as omnipotents.


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## Nep Heart (Mar 19, 2017)

It would probably be more appropriate to ask who the weakest character that can solo the Gods and Angels of DBS so you don't have to worry about someone defaulting to things massively above their league.


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## whatsausername (Mar 19, 2017)

Ampchu said:


> It would probably be more appropriate to ask who the weakest character that can solo the Gods and Angels of DBS so you don't have to worry about someone defaulting to things massively above their league.


thats true. should have put more thought into this thread. still, i doubt people would mention a bunch of omnipotents and abstracts.


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## Fang (Mar 19, 2017)

Obviously a high tier or top tier Gold Saint due to speed advantage, more broken powers, and what not; soul-fuckery, mind-fucking, senses destruction, etc...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## tonpa (Mar 19, 2017)

Soma Cruz


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## Bernkastel (Mar 19, 2017)

How would Palkia,Dialga and Giratina would fare in this match?


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## Gordo solos (Mar 19, 2017)

Bernkastel said:


> How would Palkia,Dialga and Giratina would fare in this match?


Aren't they lacking in speed?

DBS gods are MFTL to a pretty large degree


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## Nep Heart (Mar 19, 2017)

Bernkastel said:


> How would Palkia,Dialga and Giratina would fare in this match?



 Any God or Angel can solo the PokeGods sans Arceus even if the latter have the hax to actually harm them.


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## 1337RedGlitchFox (Mar 19, 2017)

The Flash still has that Juicy Speed Steal.
Actually, what's The Flash's base speed to try and do so?


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## Bernkastel (Mar 19, 2017)

Gordo solos said:


> Aren't they lacking in speed?
> 
> DBS gods are MFTL to a pretty large degree





Ampchu said:


> Any God or Angel can solo the PokeGods sans Arceus even if the latter have the hax to actually harm them.



Yeah i was mostly curious due to their various hax in their possesion..especially Palkia due to being the god of time.


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## BlaLig (Mar 19, 2017)

The World said:


> Tadano


Overkill. 


Bernkastel said:


> Yeah i was mostly curious due to their various hax in their possesion..especially Palkia due to being the god of time.


? Palkia is God of Space, Dialga is God of Time. But you know, you actually raise good point, its actually weird for Dialga to not have any speed hax, being 'God of Time' and all.

I myself would like to nominate Enrico Pucci (with Stairway to Heaven) as weakest. Failing that, Giorno (with GER).


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## Flashlight237 (Mar 19, 2017)

Hard to say. The logic behind the Gods of Destruction is screwy. During the fight between SSJG Goku and Beerus, their match has proven to be material universal, yet Beerus himself would be capable of destroying a universe both matter and concept if he used his full power. Of course a Dragon Ball universe would be at least 2x the size of the observable universe assuming the two planes of each universe are of equal size. Issue is if one sphere is twice the volume of another sphere, then it would have a radius 1.26x the radius of the other sphere. That's something to question. It is safe to assume that the other Gods of Destruction are on the same level as Beerus.

As for the Angels, a pamphlet for Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods showed an approximate power level comparison between SSJG Goku, Beerus, and Whis. That rating would be 6, 10, and 15 respectively. Even then, Dragon Ball Super had it to where comparing SSJB Goku and Vegeta and Beerus would be like comparing trees to Beerus's castle. Even then, Whis and Vados both nonchalantly stopped Beerus and Champa (though that was in a baseball filler). I'd give the Angels baseline multiversal (capable of destroying two universes regardless of size in one shot) at worst.

Assuming that, if one were to split the two up, I'd say someone like Bill Cipher (who was reported to be a threat to the multiverse in literature co-written by Alex Hirsch) could take on the Gods, but NOT the Angels. I don't see Giygas doing anything to Mosco regardless of whether he can take the Gods on or not. If one were to keep them together, the weakest character I can readily think of are Ex-Death (true form) or Dissidia Chaos.


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## jasongtrturbo (Mar 19, 2017)

No one


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## Esano (Mar 19, 2017)

Any true multiversal
Ie someone who fucks with infinite universes would do it.

But without that it would take someone extremely powerful, above universal.
SSG Goku can basically destroy of a universe, including other universes inside it.
SSB Kaioken x10 Goku is more than 10 Times stronger and aparently still not Beerus tier. Whis can shrek Beerbelly easily and angels are on his level ,and theres like a dozen of them, and the Grand Priest. So they arent going to be defeated with universal powers or low level multi universe.
They also have reality warping / Magical powers and resistences to things of such nature.

So basically you need someone with Insane Mental Hax, Someone who Casually destroys dozens of Universes at least, or Legit Multiversals and stuff to beat them.


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 19, 2017)

Noo because he's faster than trans-time Wally and has enough hax to fuck them all over


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## B Rabbit (Mar 19, 2017)

Jiren. Jiren will do it.


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## Esano (Mar 19, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Noo because he's faster than trans-time Wally and has enough hax to fuck them all over


Goku is even faster, faster than the pure incarnation of stopped time casually.
So blaaa


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## Gordo solos (Mar 19, 2017)

Jiren the Grey


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 19, 2017)

Esano said:


> Goku is even faster, faster than the pure incarnation of stopped time casually.
> So blaaa


Well...Noo is implied to have existed before the universe so obviously time doesn't matter to him 

In all seriousness, a Planck instant is 500 billion years to Noo. That's fucking fast and gives Noo enough time to make Zeno wet himself into blowing up DB.


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## Esano (Mar 19, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Well...Noo is implied to have existed before the universe so obviously time doesn't matter to him
> 
> In all seriousness, a Planck instant is 500 billion years to Noo. That's fucking fast and gives Noo enough time to make Zeno wet himself into blowing up DB.


For ceral mascots tho.
How fast even are the angels?
What's the best speed calc  for them so far?

(Also does anyone have the calc for the Beerus "1 and a half minutes" feat?


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 19, 2017)

Esano said:


> For ceral mascots tho.
> How fast even are the angels?
> What's the best speed calc  for them so far?
> 
> (Also does anyone have the calc for the Beerus "1 and a half minutes" feat?


Last I heard quadrillions of c's. Zeno is in the quintillions of c's range. Things might have changed but I haven't seen any new speed calcs that put the Angels at Zeno's range.


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## Nep Heart (Mar 19, 2017)

Esano said:


> For ceral mascots tho.
> How fast even are the angels?
> What's the best speed calc  for them so far?
> 
> (Also does anyone have the calc for the Beerus "1 and a half minutes" feat?



 IIRC, highest speed feat is 200 quadrillion c for Whis, which I am sure the other Angels can compare to.


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## Esano (Mar 19, 2017)

Yeah thats about what I last saw, so I guess I didnt miss anything.

I still cant believe how 0 to 60 the powerlevels got for Super, they are even giving us upgrades for Freiza.

Possible Star level Kuririn and Tenshinhan
MFTL Multi Universe Goku

They should reincorporerate this next
*Link Removed*


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## DarkSlayerZero (Mar 19, 2017)

Ryoko farts and kills them all.


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## Fang (Mar 20, 2017)

Owen Deathstalker can beat them if its speed equalized and gauntlet style.


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## TobiSan (Mar 20, 2017)

Non-job Spectre


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## Galo de Lion (Mar 20, 2017)

Mehrunes Dagon shows these n'wahs what a true god of destruction can do.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Keishin (Mar 20, 2017)

GER would get destroyed by them.
Maybe STTGL.


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## Cain1234 (Mar 20, 2017)

TTGL said:


> Mehrunes Dagon shows these n'wahs what a true god of destruction can do.




Why not Sheogorath or Bal


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## OneSimpleAnime (Mar 20, 2017)

Id shows them true fear


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 20, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Id shows them true fear


Id and Noo team up


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## Keishin (Mar 20, 2017)

Fang said:


> Wrong.


Ger can even attack multiple opponents at once? It's ability only targets one opponent fromwhat I remember.


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## Fang (Mar 20, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Ger can even attack multiple opponents at once? It's ability only targets one opponent fromwhat I remember.



GER can attack when not existing, so how would it have issues when its a metaphysical fucking power that says nope to time and space?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Keollyn (Mar 20, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Id shows them true fear



I'd rather see Graf tapdance on their heads instead.


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 20, 2017)

Keollyn said:


> I'd rather see Graf tapdance on their heads instead.


Isn't Grahf at most galaxy level though 

Unless Grahf is like Noo where he's so fast that he's way past plaid (if you get that joke, you have good taste in movies) and he's got hax to back him up.


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## Keollyn (Mar 20, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Isn't Grahf at most galaxy level though
> 
> Unless Grahf is like Noo where he's so fast that he's way past plaid (if you get that joke, you have good taste in movies) and he's got hax to back him up.



Scary enough, I think I've been underestimating Zohar for a long time. I've always assumed the literal big bang was what it tanked, but we have to remember that's from a human's perspective. We know that it tanked the energy the wave existence leaked out. And that thing created the multiverse.

Fei destroyed that not too long after his fight with Graf, so Graf can possibly get slight scaling to that (just durability though. Nothing changes offensively). So no one in DBS is hurting Graf, even if he can't in turn.

I mean, he can get an infinitesimal percent of that, and still be higher than DBS best.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 20, 2017)

Keollyn said:


> Scary enough, I think I've been underestimating Zohar for a long time. I've always assumed the literal big bang was what it tanked, but we have to remember that's from a human's perspective. We know that it tanked the energy the wave existence leaked out. And that thing created the multiverse.
> 
> Fei destroyed that not too long after his fight with Graf, so Graf can possibly get slight scaling to that (just durability though. Nothing changes offensively). So no one in DBS is hurting Graf, even if he can't in turn.


Heh so now it seems like Grahf & Kahn being able to square off against Xenogears isn't PIS.

But the regular Gears fighting against Xenogears-Id is still bullshit

Reactions: Like 1


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## Keollyn (Mar 20, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Heh so now it seems like Grahf & Kahn being able to square off against Xenogears isn't PIS.
> 
> *But the regular Gears fighting against Xenogears-Id is still bullshit*



Truer words cannot be spoken.

Though there is a theory out there that Id mental state was too erratic to utilize his power correctly, even moreso that ever before. But that's bullshit cause he should be able to wreck them on foot.


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 20, 2017)

Keollyn said:


> Truer words cannot be spoken.
> 
> Though there is a theory out there that Id mental state was too erratic to utilize his power correctly, even moreso that ever before. But that's bullshit cause he should be able to wreck them on foot.


The best justification is Id was fucking around with them but that seems way out of character for Id.

Id is someone who loves killing people MD Geist style. Even if he wasn't giving his all, I'm sure even a flick from Xenogears-Id's pinky would kill the cast.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Keollyn (Mar 20, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> The best justification is Id was fucking around with them but that seems way out of character for Id.
> 
> Id is someone who loves killing people MD Geist style. Even if he wasn't giving his all, I'm sure even a flick from Xenogears-Id's pinky would kill the cast.



Dr. McJerkAss Uzuki is my final answer. With him around, there's no telling the level of trolling we are to expect.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 20, 2017)

Keollyn said:


> Dr. McJerkAss Uzuki is my final answer. With him around, there's no telling the level of trolling we are to expect.


Citan does have crazy prep time skills.

I would not be shocked if Hashi or Saga came out and said Citan drugged Id with the corpses Solyent Green while Fei was asleep prior to Fei gaining Xenogears.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Mar 20, 2017)

Keollyn said:


> Scary enough, I think I've been underestimating Zohar for a long time. I've always assumed the literal big bang was what it tanked, but we have to remember that's from a human's perspective. We know that it tanked the energy the wave existence leaked out. And that thing created the multiverse.
> 
> Fei destroyed that not too long after his fight with Graf, so Graf can possibly get slight scaling to that (just durability though. Nothing changes offensively). So no one in DBS is hurting Graf, even if he can't in turn.
> 
> I mean, he can get an infinitesimal percent of that, and still be higher than DBS best.


Graf had good resonance with the Zohar due to having a former Contact's body most likely. He turns everyone into dirt.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gordo solos (Mar 20, 2017)

Daishinkan

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Keollyn (Mar 20, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Graf had good resonance with the Zohar due to having a former Contact's body most likely. He turns everyone into dirt.



Oh I think what I was implying was miscommunicated (re-reading Blakk's post)

I was talking about Graf not keeling over after fighting Fei in Xenogears, not Graf's association with Zohar. The former is far more direct cause we know Fei did fight Graf, and even if Fei was holding back, that would still be a lot of power (especially around that time even Graf felt that Fei in Xenogears had enough power to destroy reality)



Blakk Jakk said:


> Heh so now it seems like Grahf & Kahn being able to square off against Xenogears isn't PIS.



I would say it was never PIS. Gotta remember Fei just found out who Graf really was. So he was likely holding back.


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 20, 2017)

Keollyn said:


> Oh I think what I was implying was miscommunicated (re-reading Blakk's post)
> 
> I was talking about Graf not keeling over after fighting Fei in Xenogears, not Graf's association with Zohar. The former is far more direct cause we know Fei did fight Graf, and even if Fei was holding back, that would still be a lot of power (especially around that time even Graf felt that Fei in Xenogears had enough power to destroy reality)
> 
> I would say it was never PIS. Gotta remember Fei just found out who Graf really was. So he was likely holding back.


We did see Grahf exhausted after fighting Xenogears but he still had enough energy to stop Zohar from eating or fusing with Fei or whatever was going to happen if Grahf hadn't stopped Zohar from doing what it was going to do.


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## Keollyn (Mar 20, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> We did see Grahf exhausted after fighting Xenogears but he still had enough energy to stop Zohar from eating or fusing with Fei or whatever was going to happen if Grahf hadn't stopped Zohar from doing what it was going to do.



Durability/Endurance seems like one of those stats that XGs like giving characters a range generally out of their weight-class (Hammer & Goliath, Dominia & Elul, Abel & Eldridge, Chu-Chu & Achtzehn. Just to name a few)


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 20, 2017)

Keollyn said:


> Durability/Endurance seems like one of those stats that XGs like giving characters a range generally out of their weight-class (Hammer & Goliath, Dominia & Elul, Abel & Eldridge, Chu-Chu & Achtzehn. Just to name a few)


Even while holding back, Grahf holding out as long as he did and just being exhausted afterward and then somehow temporarily stopping Zohar from doing to Fei what it did to WE is impressive.

I'm still assmad about Xenogears-Id not crushing a bunch of pissants even if Citan may or may not have supplied Id Soma Cruz's LSD Solarian hallucogenics. Dammit Square, you rushed the game out the door and robbed us of Space Pirate Captain Bartlock Xenogears Episode 6

Reactions: Like 1


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## Keollyn (Mar 20, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Space Pirate Captain Bartlock



Well damn, it sounds like someone's gonna have to get some talk going on with Square and Monolith, cause this must happen in my lifetime.


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 20, 2017)

Keollyn said:


> Well damn, it sounds like someone's gonna have to get some talk going on with Square and Monolith, cause this must happen in my lifetime.


Starring the Men of the Sea of Stars


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## Keollyn (Mar 20, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Starring the Men of the Sea of Stars



Fiction ain't ready for something like this.


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## Huey Freeman (Mar 20, 2017)

Jackie Chan if he doesn't want trouble


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 21, 2017)

Fang said:


> Obviously a high tier or top tier Gold Saint due to speed advantage, more broken powers, and what not; soul-fuckery, mind-fucking, senses destruction, etc...


Sense destruction won't do much and that's pretty much what mind fucking is.
Also wtf is with this speed advantage bullshit?
Kid Krillin had a fight with master roshi that was literally over in less than a blink of an eye and that was fucking mid dragonball.

Broken powers, not sure what can be more broken on their side than simply erasing existence, yes, gods of destruction have the power to literally erase people and the gods of destruction are trash against the angels. Also considering "Angels" also include grand priest, it's only a bigger stomp.
But yeah, I don't believe you know much about dragonball super.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 4


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 21, 2017)

Flashlight237 said:


> Hard to say. The logic behind the Gods of Destruction is screwy. During the fight between SSJG Goku and Beerus, their match has proven to be material universal, yet Beerus himself would be capable of destroying a universe both matter and concept if he used his full power. Of course a Dragon Ball universe would be at least 2x the size of the observable universe assuming the two planes of each universe are of equal size. Issue is if one sphere is twice the volume of another sphere, then it would have a radius 1.26x the radius of the other sphere. That's something to question. It is safe to assume that the other Gods of Destruction are on the same level as Beerus.
> 
> As for the Angels, a pamphlet for Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods showed an approximate power level comparison between SSJG Goku, Beerus, and Whis. That rating would be 6, 10, and 15 respectively. Even then, Dragon Ball Super had it to where comparing SSJB Goku and Vegeta and Beerus would be like comparing trees to Beerus's castle. Even then, Whis and Vados both nonchalantly stopped Beerus and Champa (though that was in a baseball filler). I'd give the Angels baseline multiversal (capable of destroying two universes regardless of size in one shot) at worst.
> 
> Assuming that, if one were to split the two up, I'd say someone like Bill Cipher (who was reported to be a threat to the multiverse in literature co-written by Alex Hirsch) could take on the Gods, but NOT the Angels. I don't see Giygas doing anything to Mosco regardless of whether he can take the Gods on or not. If one were to keep them together, the weakest character I can readily think of are Ex-Death (true form) or Dissidia Chaos.


That was retconned since that's movie characters, the gap in super is MUCh bigger.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 21, 2017)

Mr Baseball solos.


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 21, 2017)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Sense destruction won't do much and that's pretty much what mind fucking is.
> Also wtf is with this speed advantage bullshit?
> *Kid Krillin had a fight with master roshi that was literally over in less than a blink of an eye and that was fucking mid dragonball.*
> 
> ...


You've never read Saint Seiya if you think that's impressive.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 21, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> You've never read Saint Seiya if you think that's impressive.


It's kid krillin, who after further training, was literally trash compared to Tambourine who goku later effortlessly speed blitzed before even fighting king piccolo.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 21, 2017)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> It's kid krillin.


And? So what?

Gold Saints are fucktons faster than that having been able to outmaneuver the initial expansion of the Big Bang.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 21, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> And? So what?
> 
> Gold Saints are fucktons faster than that having been able to outmaneuver the initial expansion of the Big Bang.


Seems rather unimpressive. That's not going to even get you through the bastard!!! universe.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 21, 2017)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Seems rather unimpressive. That's not going to even get you through the bastard!!! universe.


Nobody in Bastard is that fast or anywhere close to being septillions of times the speed of light.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 21, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Nobody in Bastard is that fast or anywhere close to being septillions of times the speed of light.


Dark Schneider and Satan could have a word with them.
DS has far too good of defenses to fucking even struggle with things like speed.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 21, 2017)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Dark Schneider and Satan could have a word with them.
> DS has far too good of defenses to fucking even struggle with things like speed.


>DS and Satan being septillions of c's
>infinite speed DB

Reactions: Agree 3


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## trance (Mar 21, 2017)

just the Hakaishin and the angels? No Zen'o?

I'd say Death from SPN if it's gauntlet style has a good shot


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 21, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> >DS and Satan being septillions of c's
> >infinite speed DB


DS doesn't have that speed but his shields protect him none the less until he does wipe them out of existence.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 21, 2017)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> DS doesn't have that speed but his shields protect him none the less until he does wipe them out of existence.


Nope.jpg

DS' Eternal Atoms aren't limitless. Given Saga's speed, DS is going to get punched to death faster than he can process a thought.


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## trance (Mar 21, 2017)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Dark Schneider and Satan could have a word with them.
> DS has far too good of defenses to fucking even struggle with things like speed.


 
Bastard!! is far too lacking in speed compared to Super who might as well be statues to guys from SS

and making an argument for Dispel Bound protecting him from an attack that can level a universe or more isn't exactly the best move


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 21, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Nope.jpg
> 
> DS' Eternal Atoms aren't limitless. Given Saga's speed, DS is going to get punched to death faster than he can process a thought.


The Eternal Atoms won't even come into play with Dark Schneider's Dispel Bound defending him.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 21, 2017)

Kyouko said:


> Bastard!! is far too lacking in speed compared to Super who might as well be statues to guys from SS
> 
> and making an argument for Dispel Bound protecting him from an attack that can level a universe or more isn't exactly the best move


Dispel Bound protected him against a force equal with the big bang so it's a pretty good move.
Mix both together and yeah.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## trance (Mar 21, 2017)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Dispel Bound protected him against a force equal with the big bang so it's a pretty good move.
> Mix both together and yeah.


 
scans

last I recall, his best tanking feat is being at ground zero in the destruction of the Black Abyss


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 21, 2017)

Kyouko said:


> scans
> 
> last I recall, his best tanking feat is being at ground zero in the destruction of the Black Abyss


The Black Abyss? They survived the literal explosion that broke the barrier between earth and hell. Black Abyss was like 30k light years away and was destroyed as well to show the damage output.

Okay I found this:


Look at all of the different things, DS is fucking broken.

All damage will be put back onto them on top of all the powers he has.


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## Keollyn (Mar 21, 2017)

Is this my Comicvine tab? Looks an awful lot like OBD though.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Mar 21, 2017)

Keollyn said:


> It's like I tabbed into Comicvine again.


He did link a Comicvine thread 

Any dumber and he'd be close to hitting MVC territory.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Keollyn (Mar 21, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> He did link a Comicvine thread
> 
> Any dumber and he'd be close to hitting MVC territory.



Yeah, yeah he actually did. His response sounded like a direct rip from comicvine view on DS, almost word for word. Now I see why.


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## Keollyn (Mar 21, 2017)

Sai Goku can. He has multiversal strength (stronger than Buddha cause goku made kannon bleed buddha didnt. blood > bruises), infinite speed (he can move freely where time no longer exist and is faster in true form cause limiter did this low-tier feat) and he doesnt need durability cause he's immortal type 4 and only a buddha can kill a buddha (goku's a buddha already he's just dreaming like in Offroad). He has all powers cause it's infinite so he'll just omnipotent his way to victory with any power he chooses after he reads it off superpowers wiki

His range is cross dimensional hyperversal cause he can shake heaven which is higher dimensions and they're all lower dimensions things so they get harmed more cause super effective is in play. 

Then goku goes back in space and talks with time cause he's losing his shit after killing everyone and being lonely for so long. He remembers the cave, he remembers the CAVE!


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## Keollyn (Mar 21, 2017)

Gojyo still pleasure points him cause I can 100% assure you that perverted kappa's gonna have a sex themed youkai power.


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## Fang (Mar 21, 2017)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Sense destruction won't do much and that's pretty much what mind fucking is.



Wrong.



> Also wtf is with this speed advantage bullshit?



Being faster then anyone in DB. Hundreds of septillion times the speed of light > anything in DBS. 



> Kid Krillin had a fight with master roshi that was literally over in less than a blink of an eye and that was fucking mid dragonball.



Not impressive.



> Broken powers, not sure what can be more broken on their side than simply erasing existence, yes, gods of destruction have the power to literally erase people and the gods of destruction are trash against the angels. Also considering "Angels" also include grand priest, it's only a bigger stomp.



Wrong. Aries Mu whose a mid-tier Gold Saint can erase universes and Starlight Extinction isn't jackshit to a Gemini Gold Saints powers. You have no idea what you are talking about.



> But yeah, I don't believe you know much about dragonball super.



Yeah nah.


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## Claudio Swiss (Mar 21, 2017)

Nobody in bastard! Is doing shit to any god tier in super thats a fact.


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## Fang (Mar 21, 2017)

I thought the consensus was if you put someone like Goku or Vegeta against DS it'd just end in a stalemate. They have no way of putting down Schneider but he can't hope to compete with their speed, DC, or durability.


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## Claudio Swiss (Mar 21, 2017)

Fang said:


> I thought the consensus was if you put someone like Goku or Vegeta against DS it'd just end in a stalemate. They have no way of putting down Schneider but he can't hope to compete with their speed, DC, or durability.


It is. only eternal atoms saves him from a complete stomp from any god tiers in super


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## Cain1234 (Mar 21, 2017)

> Being faster then anyone in DB. Hundreds of septillion times the speed of light > anything in DBS.




The initial expansion of the big bang is no where near septillion let alone hundreds of septillion times the speed of light.

There is actually no proof what so ever the initial expansion of the universe is lightspeed or over let the positive exponent of the plank

to get that value you used the timeframe
"zero to approximately 10-43 seconds" without considering any form of displacement, hint: it could be ranging from 1 Planck length to billions of light years to literal infinite light years unmeasurable by any human technology.

Nor using a reliable time frame for a universe, which should be 1-6 seconds.( because thats the time it took for matter to from)



That alone made the initial expansion surpassing feat faulty.
Then there is Shura's statement claiming it to be a "miracle".
Then there is his statement and explanation claming that his "Excalibur will cut at the speed surpassing the initial expansion of the universe before the bigbang...before *light was ever born*"

Which means at the max it was the speed of Dark or Dark Matter. Which at the maximum would be slightly faster than lightspeed.




And don't bring up hyper dimension feat, cause most Angels shits on Multiversal Distances, Heck Hit shits on Multiversal distances



> Wrong. Aries Mu whose a mid-tier Gold Saint can erase universes




No he can't at best he can destroy a countless number of meteors or comets. From Dimension Iepatos

That is not equal to an entire universe. Which also has many infinite subdimensions/ stars and galaxies.

Aries Mu and Shion may be at best Multi-galaxy tier. And even then a galaxy contains trillions of stars.




> and Starlight Extinction isn't jackshit to a Gemini Gold Saints powers. You have no idea what you are talking about.



Whut......Do you even know how Saint Seiya works. Its litterally burn my cosmo as much as plot demands it. Gold Saints are practically equals, some are just more equal than others.

Ares=Virgo >>>> Gemini


Come at me bru.



Anyways don't want to bring up a SS debate in this forums.

So anyone who is Cube level to Celestial level+ in Marvel.

Elder Gods level+ in DC

Chronos and potentially Kronos in Saint Seiya.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 6


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## NightmareCinema (Mar 21, 2017)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Sense destruction won't do much and that's pretty much what mind fucking is.
> Also wtf is with this speed advantage bullshit?
> Kid Krillin had a fight with master roshi that was literally over in less than a blink of an eye and that was fucking mid dragonball.
> 
> ...


Erasing shit from existence is something the Twin Gods from Saint Seiya are capable of doing. High-to-top-tier Gold Saints are above those two.

As for the speed advantage thing, call me when Dragon Ball has a feat of their characters crossing billions of galaxies in minutes. Or having a feat where a character exceeded the speed of the initial expansion of the universe. Using the Kid Krillin vs. Roshi fight from the OG series is hilarious considering it's nothing in comparison.

This isn't even taking into account that Dragon Ball still has no proper defenses against soul manipulation/rip/destruction which means that even someone like Deathmask can take on all the GoDs and Angels and win.

Dragon Ball's spatial fuckery is also low-tier compared to Saint Seiya's.

Your entire post is wrong. Hilariously wrong, even.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Saint Saga (Mar 21, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> The initial expansion of the big bang is no where near septillion let alone hundreds of septillion times the speed of light.
> 
> There is actually no proof what so ever the initial expansion of the universe is lightspeed or over let the positive exponent of the plank
> 
> ...




You know,that's an awfully longwinded way of saying that you have no clue what the hell you are talking about.

You should look into being more efficient with your idiotic statements, would save you time and it would lower the chance of us suffering severe mental trauma from reading your stupidity .

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Mar 21, 2017)

Saga shows them his fist

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## NightmareCinema (Mar 21, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> -snip-


All this shitposting. All this wanking.

The Gemini Saint has repeatedly been said by other characters in the classic series to be the strongest of the Saints.

Episode.G and Episode.G Assassin just confirms this even more by having Saga nearly kill Three Seals Cronus in the former and making Aiolos super salty in the latter. Note that him nearly killing Cronus was him not having any power-ups. Only things he had were his techniques and the Golden Dagger which is able to kill even the gods of Olympus. Otherwise, Saga was matching and even overpowering Cronus with his Gemini techniques.

Also...
>Multiversal distances

You mean the distances that takes the Angels HOURS UPON HOURS to cross?

Which is jack shit compared to crossing billions-to-trillions of light-years/galaxies in minutes.

Also, Iapetos' "dimension" is an outright universe. Mu said so and Iapetos confirms Mu's statement immediately after. Mu then proceeded to erase it with Starlight Extinction. And guess who, despite all of that, is still nothing compared to Saga? Mu.

Not to mention Saga came close to killing Three Seal Cronus who's above Two Seal Iapetos and your statement of Aries > Gemini falls apart completely. Only reason Saga failed is because his Evil Side took control again.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Fang (Mar 21, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> *snip*



Stop talking like you have an actual clue how the feats and achievements in Saint Seiya work.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Mar 21, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> All this shitposting. All this wanking.
> 
> The Gemini Saint has repeatedly been said by other characters in the classic series to be the strongest of the Saints.
> 
> ...


Well when they need to Whis was shown to move from Beerus planet to Earth in a few seconds. they have much faster speeds when serious that we havent seen yet tbf


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## Orochibuto (Mar 21, 2017)

Any reality warper whose warp doesnt depend on power gaps.


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## Agent9149 (Mar 21, 2017)

I nominate the Anti-Spiral with super granzeboma


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## Fang (Mar 21, 2017)

Anti-Spiral against 12 Angels and 12 GoDs at the same time?


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## Agent9149 (Mar 21, 2017)

Fang said:


> Anti-Spiral against 12 Angels and 12 GoDs at the same time?



WIth probablity manipulation, being able to attack from the past, present, and future, being able to hide in the past present and future, plus their mind fuck dimension. The physicall advantage of the angels and gods mean nothing to this level of hax.


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## Fang (Mar 21, 2017)

Agent9149 said:


> WIth probablity manipulation, being able to attack from the past, present, and future, being able to hide in the past present and future, plus their mind fuck dimension. The physicall advantage of the angels and gods mean nothing to this level of hax.



For the Gods of Destruction yeah. With the Attendants/Angels? I'm not so sure. Whis and Vados are able to very clearly peer into time-space and look at the past, like Vados did when she searched for Universe 6's Earth and was able to discern how it was destroyed along with the humans on the planet.


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## Mythoclast (Mar 21, 2017)

1v1 I can see the Anti-Spiral beating anyone, but i don't think he'd solo all of them at the same time


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## Agent9149 (Mar 21, 2017)

Fang said:


> For the Gods of Destruction yeah. With the Attendants/Angels? I'm not so sure. Whis and Vados are able to very clearly peer into time-space and look at the past, like Vados did when she searched for Universe 6's Earth and was able to discern how it was destroyed along with the humans on the planet.



Even if we give that the angels can see through spacetime (including the future and not just present and past) and can see the attacks coming, that's not enough information to say that they could do anything about it. The angels haven't yet shown probability manipulation or resistance on the scale of the anti-spiral. Would thy even be able to touch the anti-spiral? I don't believe so.


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## Muah (Mar 21, 2017)

Uub once he reaches adult hood. If his universe still exist at the time.


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## Fang (Mar 21, 2017)

Agent9149 said:


> Even if we give that the angels can see through spacetime (including the future and not just present and past) and can see the attacks coming, that's not enough information to say that they could do anything about it. The angels haven't yet shown probability manipulation or resistance on the scale of the anti-spiral. Would thy even be able to touch the anti-spiral? I don't believe so.



Don't they also have the speed advantage? Like its shown that Vados alone is several millions of years old, explored universes and possesses a high degree of knowledge on supernatural entities, objects, powers, etc...Point was that considering have powers like that the probability thing is harder to pull off.

Anti-Spiral certainly isn't pulling this against all of the Angels, certainly not against more then 1 of them at best.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Nep Heart (Mar 21, 2017)

As I've said earlier in this thread, Angels should be 200 quadrillion c, and that's literally a dozen Angels coming at the opponent with this much speed.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## ~BLAZxBLUE~ (Mar 21, 2017)

Cyber Sleuth Alphamon could pull it off, but I don't think he's the weakest...


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 21, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> Erasing shit from existence is something the Twin Gods from Saint Seiya are capable of doing. High-to-top-tier Gold Saints are above those two.
> 
> As for the speed advantage thing, call me when Dragon Ball has a feat of their characters crossing billions of galaxies in minutes. Or having a feat where a character exceeded the speed of the initial expansion of the universe. Using the Kid Krillin vs. Roshi fight from the OG series is hilarious considering it's nothing in comparison.
> 
> ...


The shields defend against warping as well so that's irrelevant.

DS's shields aren't doing shit.

"Billions of galaxies in minutes"
Whis did an even greater distance in a few minutes.

It's a measuring point to power scale. 

Um yes, they do have dfense against those things.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Mar 21, 2017)

Fang said:


> Wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whis has disgusting amounts of speed himself. 

Also I'm talking about beerus's reality warping pretty much with his god of destruction ability he used on zamasu.
Also there are many universes busters in dragonball super.

Reactions: Dislike 4


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## Fang (Mar 21, 2017)

>Beerus
>reality warping

El oh el. What the fuck am I reading?

And nothing in DBS touches on mid-tiers speed feats in Saint Seiya so nah.

Reactions: Like 5


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## NightmareCinema (Mar 21, 2017)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> The shields defend against warping as well so that's irrelevant.
> 
> DS's shields aren't doing shit.


What? Where the hell did I mention Darsh in my post?



> "Billions of galaxies in minutes"
> Whis did an even greater distance in a few minutes.
> 
> It's a measuring point to power scale.


No, he didn't. Whis took four hours to cross one end of the universe to the other in the U6 arc.

The distance between Beerus' nebula to Earth is unknown so you can't say he flew past billions of galaxies there.

And it's still nothing compared to the Elysium feat or the "exceeding the initial expansion of the universe" feat from Episode.G Assassin.

And that measuring point is a shit feat so dunno why you're bothering with it.



> Um yes, they do have dfense against those things.



Prove it. Show me an instance of Dragon Ball having defenses against soul-based attacks on the caliber of Saint Seiya. I'll wait.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 21, 2017)

I don't see Zeno or the priest so I'm going to assume they are not included 

I'm going to say something like Mikaboshi or Shuma


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## whatsausername (Mar 21, 2017)

Worldbreaker said:


> I don't see Zeno or the priest so I'm going to assume they are not included
> 
> I'm going to say something like Mikaboshi or Shuma


throw em in as a bonus if you want.


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## Cain1234 (Mar 21, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> No, he didn't. Whis took four hours to cross one end of the universe to the other in the U6 arc.



Whis went form Universe 7 to fucking Universe *10.* In a time span less than 12 hours. That 4 Universe and 8 dimensions of existance they crossed. And I am not even counting, the space *BETWEEN the universes, which in turn is by rato scaling is several time bigger than the universes itself.*


Whis crossing 4  lawn stones worth of Distance>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the initial expansion of 1 universe or Hyperdimension feat.

Heck even Hit crossed MULTI-UNIVERSAL distances in less time than it take Goku to eat dinner.



> The distance between Beerus' nebula to Earth is unknown so you can't say he flew past billions of galaxies there.


Earth is at the edge, Beeru's realm is on the other side of the universe, beyond the Kaioshin realms. There is an infinite number of Galaxies between the milkyway and the center, and Beerus realm is beyond the Kaio Shin realms.



When Beerus or Whis want to they can reach earth in SECONDS. See Episode 69



> And it's still nothing compared to the Elysium feat



This feat is garbage to god tiers. Not to mention it took the Bronze Saints a whole week to Cross the Hyper Dimension as was shown in Soul of Gold.



> or the "exceeding the initial expansion of the universe" feat from Episode.G Assassin.


"Before light was ever born" Meaning it was a fast as the nonexistence of light. There is nothing that says that the universe explands or expanded beyond lightspeed, even the the epochian era. It is heavily debated as going beyond light

And that measuring point is a shit feat so dunno why you're bothering with it.




> Prove it. Show me an instance of Dragon Ball having defenses against soul-based attacks on the caliber of Saint Seiya. I'll wait.




Everything!!! Ki = Soul+Mind+Courage.

This is litterally the fundamental basics of Dragon Ball, not super. They dont need soul based attack because everything is based on SOUL. Their  Universe+ durability doesn't come from their physical body, their actual physical durability is actually fodder level without ki. It comes from their Soul or Spirit.


There is no *caliber *of soul-based attack. Everything SS does effects Soul and Physical Body to some degree. Some have special ability to remove soul Cancer, and that was never used on someone with Universe+ God ki enhanced durability.

Reactions: Dislike 5


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## NightmareCinema (Mar 22, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> Whis went form Universe 7 to fucking Universe *10.* In a time span less than 12 hours. That 4 Universe and 8 dimensions of existance they crossed. And I am not even counting, the space *BETWEEN the universes, which in turn is by rato scaling is several time bigger than the universes itself.*
> 
> 
> Whis crossing 4  lawn stones worth of Distance>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the initial expansion of 1 universe or Hyperdimension feat.
> ...


>Distances between universe are unknown
>Acting like that means a damn
>The universe the Saints crossed is also bigger than our universe
>Calc regarding Whis' flight from U7 to U10 was calc'd in the high quadrillions
>Calc regarding the Saints' Elysium flight is in the quintillions
>Shura's feat is in the septillions
>All this salt regarding Saint Seiya

Shura's a high-tier Goldie. The ones above him (Saga, Kanon, Shaka, Dohko, and Shion) all scale to this feat.

And you still didn't prove shit about Dragon Ball having soul resistance.

Saint Seiya still >>>>>>>> Dragon Ball on the powerscale.

Deal with it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gordo solos (Mar 22, 2017)

Only way you can conceivably argue a DB character being resistant to soul-fuck is Future Zamasu since his soul is immortal

Still low-tier compared to SS stuff. Manlygoldo fucks him up


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## Nep Heart (Mar 22, 2017)

What is it with DBtards always associating ki with soul manipulation?

 It's like as if I were to claim to being fueled on veggies and water, I must be a plant and water manipulator and therefore immune to choking and drowning on either.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Cain1234 (Mar 22, 2017)

Gordo solos said:


> Only way you can conceivably argue a DB character being resistant to soul-fuck is Future Zamasu since his soul is immortal
> 
> Still low-tier compared to SS stuff. Manlygoldo fucks him up



But Gods are immortal, they cannot and have not been harmed by anyone other than the Angels or other Gods.

The only instance of Beerus taking *any damage* is from Champa in the Baseball episode. Other than that noone has been able to do anything to Gods. Whats more is that a Gods soul isn't even tied to his own body. Its tied to the *Kaioshin counterpart of the God*. The God of Destruction is immune to everything other than loosing its Kaioshin countepart's life and you need knowledge of that.



Same with Angels who don't even have a Soul and only stop functioning after their God is dead.

Unless the Battlefield has 12 Kaioshin's you can't effect the Gods, meaning you can't effect the Angels

Reactions: Dislike 4


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## NightmareCinema (Mar 22, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> But Gods are immortal, they cannot and have not been harmed by anyone other than the Angels or other Gods.
> 
> The only instance of Beerus taking *any damage* is from Champa in the Baseball episode. Other than that noone has been able to do anything to Gods. Whats more is that a Gods soul isn't even tied to his own body. Its tied to the *Kaioshin counterpart of the God*. The God of Destruction is immune to everything other than loosing its Kaioshin countepart's life and you need knowledge of that.
> 
> ...


>Abusing NLFs

You're getting desperate at this point.


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## Galo de Lion (Mar 22, 2017)

With speed equalized, Maxwell from Scribblenauts has more than enough power & hax to take DBS.


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## Cain1234 (Mar 22, 2017)

TTGL said:


> With speed equalized, Maxwell from Scribblenauts has more than enough power & hax to take DBS.


Ya that guy was retardedly op, to be honest. I think he can win with speed unequalized. Considering he can just make something faster than DBS. Like a super infinite speed pill.



NightmareCinema said:


> All this shitposting. All this wanking.




Says the wanker in a wanking site.



> The Gemini Saint has repeatedly been said by other characters in the classic series to be the strongest of the Saints.



I think you meant Virgo, or Sagittarius(which is also mentioned by Saga to be the strongest)



> Episode.G and Episode.G Assassin just confirms this even more by having Saga nearly kill Three Seals Cronus in the former and making Aiolos super salty in the latter. Note that him nearly killing Cronus was him not having any power-ups. Only things he had were his techniques and the Golden Dagger which is able to kill even the gods of Olympus. Otherwise, Saga was matching and even overpowering Cronus with his Gemini techniques.



Fully Sealed Cronus, not really quantifiable


> Also...
> >Multiversal distances
> 
> You mean the distances that takes the Angels HOURS UPON HOURS to cross?



HOURS UPON HOURS....lol what it took Whis less than 6 to 12 hours to across from Universe 7 to Universe 10. That is 8 hyper dimensions worth of distance  and NOT EVEN counting the Hyperspace between each universe which in turn is over 2 to 3  timese larger than the universes itself.



> Which is jack shit compared to crossing billions-to-trillions of light-years/galaxies* in minutes.*




And this isn't wanking lol. Where did you get minutes. You never had a time frame for the hyperdimension feat.
But later on a series called Soul of Gold was released showing the timeframe of the hyperdimension feat which was *WEEKS UPON WEEKS*.

Don't believe me here is a time frame.

The Gold Saints destroy the wailing wall. Then die.

Bronze Saints start crossing the Hyperdimension.

Gold Saints are revived in Asguard.

Weeks pass through much trial the Goldies defeat Loki.

After Loki's defeat, poseidon informs the Goldies that the Brozies are facing Thanatos and Hypno in Elysium.
*
Poseidon ask 4 gold saints to help the Bronze Saint who has reached Elysium at the end of "Soul of Gold".  Offers to help deliver the 5 Gold cloths to the main cast.*


The timeframe isn't even close to minutes as people in this section believe.



> Also, Iapetos' "dimension" is an outright universe. Mu said so and Iapetos confirms Mu's statement immediately after. Mu then proceeded to erase it with Starlight Extinction. And guess who, despite all of that, is still nothing compared to Saga? Mu.



Its called a dimension not a universe, it dosent function like a universe. Why not talk about how he, Ipatos hits Mu with meteors and not stars and galaxies.

So unless you have feats for Stars and Galaxies being destroyed, it is a pocket dimension containing a universal amount of rocks.

Nor does it matter. Universe/Dimension busting is literally fodder tier now in DBS, let alone Gods and Angels.

Actually I will post feat of that fight, not SINGLE PANEL CALLED IT A UNIVERSE.



it is called a world, or a cut into another world.














STILL FUCKING DIMESIONS!!!1

The guys name is called Iapetos of *DIMENSIONS*

None of the panels says anything about Universes. The one used by the OBD meta comes from a mistranslation which equates Universe with Dimensions.



> Not to mention Saga came close to killing Three Seal Cronus who's above Two Seal Iapetos and your statement of Aries > Gemini falls apart completely. Only reason Saga failed is because his Evil Side took control again.



Excuses excuses.




Fang said:


> Stop talking like you have an actual clue how the feats and achievements in Saint Seiya work.



I have read every single manga and piece of content Saint Seiya has published to this day. Don't tell me how Saint Seiya works pleb.

All the Manga
All the Movies
and
All the ova/Anime


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## Mr. Good vibes (Mar 22, 2017)

From the title alone I should of known it would turn into db once again getting it's shit kicked by SS.


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## trance (Mar 22, 2017)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Whis has disgusting amounts of speed himself.


 
you do realize that being able to move at quadrillions of times c, while incomprehensibly fast, is legitimately comparable to a statue in the eyes of someone who can move at septillions of times c, right?



> Also I'm talking about beerus's reality warping pretty much with his god of destruction ability he used on zamasu.


 
that wasn't reality warping. that was soul destruction

the closest DB has come to reality warping is matter materialization



> Also there are many universes busters in dragonball super.


 
doesn't make them unbeatable

there are plenty of verses out there that would wipe the floor with DBS


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## Cain1234 (Mar 22, 2017)

Onewhosbeenaround said:


> From the title alone I should of known it would turn into db once again getting it's shit kicked by SS.



Ya SS and DB are very bitter rivals.
SS relies on hype and outlandish statement, reguardless of the reliability of the source.

DB has to post a shit ton of onpanel feats that get deconstructed and misconstrued, and no statement in Dragon Ball is reliable regardless of sources.


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## Cain1234 (Mar 22, 2017)

Kyouko said:


> you do realize that being able to move at quadrillions of times c, while incomprehensibly fast, is legitimately comparable to a statue in the eyes of someone who can move at septillions of times c, right?



Stop wanking noone in SS is septillion of times C, anymore than Goku or Hit is infinite in speed.



> that wasn't reality warping. that was soul destruction



It was both, Hakai can destroy Souls and got though space and time to destroy all possible future versions of Zamasu. Black survived because he had the time ring, and Beerus was too lazy to Hakai the Zamasu that actually killed Gowasu.

This is why Black needed to enter a timeline where Beerus was NOT the God because the Supreme Kai died.

the closest DB has come to reality warping is matter materialization




> doesn't make them unbeatable
> 
> there are plenty of verses out there that would wipe the floor with DBS




Agreed! So many infinitely multiverse fuckers in fictions can reck DBS.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Mar 22, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> Stop wanking noone in SS is septillion of times C, anymore than Goku or Hit is infinite in speed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hakai just killed the present Zamasu, he survived by wearing the time ring as Goku Black. Future Zamasu was not affected because it wasnt the same Zamasu


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## Fang (Mar 22, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> YI have read every single manga and piece of content Saint Seiya has published to this day.



No, you clearly haven't. The fact you keep abusing no limits fallacies and keep trying to misuse equivocation arguments to compare God Ki in DBS with soul manipulation in Saint Seiya to claim the Angels or Gods wouldn't get ass fucked by it is bullshit.

A generic Cosmo blast from a Gold Saint can atomize souls and incorporeal beings, nothing Beerus or Whis have protects them from this.



> Don't tell me how Saint Seiya works pleb.



We all are and will continue to do so because you have no idea what you are talking about. Your nonsense with trying to equate Saturn with Cronos has not been forgotten.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Atem (Mar 22, 2017)

tonpa said:


> Soma Cruz



+1

Soma Cruz throws his wine glass at them.


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## NightmareCinema (Mar 22, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> Says the wanker in a wanking site.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


>All this autism
>Still doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about
>Wanking site
>Being this anally devastated about Saint Seiya
>Excuses
>When that's literally what happens during Episode.G

Iapetos created a universe.
Mu said so and Iapetos confirmed this. Mu then proceeded to erase it from existence and Mu's a mid-tier Goldie.

Fully Sealed Cronus is still above the other Two-Sealed Titans so Iapetos' feat of creating this universe-sized dimension scales to Cronus. Saga nearly killed Fully Sealed Cronus. See how this works?

Also, Sagittarius being the strongest? Ding ding ding, we got another salty Aiolosfag here. Guess what, Anti-Pope Aiolos still couldn't kill Saga even after a cheap shot. Cronus also complimented Saga's power and said that he knew he chose Saga as a God Killer for a reason. So get the fuck outta here with that shit.

As for the Soul of Gold thing, you do realize time flows differently between the human world and Hades' world, right? So you using this to discredit Saint Seiya's speed feat is dishonest. You're really desperate at this moment just to try and get DBS above Saint Seiya.

DBS lacks speed against Saint Seiya. DBS lacks hax against Saint Seiya.

And you saying that you've read/seen everything from the franchise doesn't mean that it's true considering all the bullshit you're spewing.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Mar 22, 2017)

Z from Tenchi Muyo.  @Endless Mike

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Keollyn (Mar 22, 2017)

Saturno said:


> Z from Tenchi Muyo.



How? Isn't he way too slow?


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Mar 22, 2017)

Keollyn said:


> How? Isn't he way too slow?



His LHW.


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## Huey Freeman (Mar 22, 2017)

DB fans see feats of Universal and very low scale Universal+ which can be consider low low multiversal and they automatically think High tier cosmic when most of DB Hax is pretty much still laughable right now.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Mar 22, 2017)

Saturno said:


> His LHW.


hes still too slow


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Mar 22, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> hes still too slow



His LHW automatically protect him for any attack. Plus you need low multiversal power to take out his 5 LHW. Something none of the gods and Angels have.


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## Keollyn (Mar 22, 2017)

Saturno said:


> His LHW.



Great and all, but that really didn't answer the question. He's too slow to ever land a hit on them, so he cannot beat them.


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Mar 22, 2017)

Keollyn said:


> Great and all, but that really didn't answer the question. He's too slow to ever land a hit on them, so he cannot beat them.



LHW react automatically.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Keollyn (Mar 22, 2017)

Saturno said:


> LHW react automatically.



But.... they don't attack at any speed needed to hit a single opponent here.


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## Fang (Mar 22, 2017)

Actually Gold Saints do. But I know your just going to repeat yourself ad naseum and where is the fun trying to debate a stone wall?


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## Keollyn (Mar 22, 2017)

The question of the thread was not who the angels and gods can beat, but who can beat them. So what you're saying is irrelevant Saturno.


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## God Movement (Mar 22, 2017)

What is the required lower limit to destroy Z's LHW?


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## Qinglong (Mar 22, 2017)

God Movement said:


> What is the required lower limit to destroy Z's LHW?



IIRC one of the 3 goddesses thought she could destroy him but would nuke the universe as a side effect, but that was when they thought he had 2 LHW when he actually had 5

another LHW user was merging 2 universes together with 2 LHW if it matters


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## God Movement (Mar 22, 2017)

Qinglong said:


> IIRC one of the 3 goddesses thought she could destroy him but would nuke the universe as a side effect, but that was when they thought he had 2 LHW when he actually had 5
> 
> another LHW user was merging 2 universes together with 2 LHW if it matters



Not sure what to think of that, universe level+ possibly?


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## Qinglong (Mar 22, 2017)

God Movement said:


> Not sure what to think of that, universe level+ possibly?



Around that in durability, if you agree with exponential increase from :



Endless Mike said:


> It's from the 101 secrets book. And each LHW doubles the power required. Basically with only 2 LHWs Tokimi would have to destroy the universe to kill Z, so with 5 it would be 8 universes. Not 31.



then low multiversal


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## God Movement (Mar 22, 2017)

If it's low multiversal, nothing anyone but Zen'o can do to kill him really.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Blocky (Mar 22, 2017)

Why people kept saying Goku and Hit are infinite in speed.

It's might well Early Post-Crisis Superman's speed is infinite since he was fast enough to move in a time-stop too.

There's always people who underestimate SS much as people overestimate DBS..


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## MatthewSchroeder (Mar 22, 2017)

Not getting into this discussion, but it's pretty retarded to think that the Saints took weeks to cross the Hyperdimension when Hades legit explains that he would complete the Greatest Eclipse in minutes multiple volumes before the feat happens.

Correction: Hours, not minutes.


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## Fang (Mar 22, 2017)

God Movement said:


> If it's low multiversal, nothing anyone but Zen'o can do to kill him really.



Yeah but Z also isn't soloing the Gods or Angels/Attendants. 

>lacks speed
>lacks DC

Worst case is a stalemate.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## SF latif (Mar 22, 2017)

it was few minutes


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## MatthewSchroeder (Mar 22, 2017)

No, it's hours, says right there on the scan I linked.


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## SF latif (Mar 22, 2017)

MatthewSchroeder said:


> No, it's hours, says right there on the scan I linked.


i can`t see it


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## SF latif (Mar 22, 2017)

it was said by both hades and shaka that it`s few minutes. dunno where "hours" come. probable a misstranslation


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## MatthewSchroeder (Mar 22, 2017)

Well, they say it was minutes and then they say it was hours, I dunno.

.

Point being: It did not take weeks to happen.


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Mar 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> Actually Gold Saints do. But I know your just going to repeat yourself ad naseum and where is the fun trying to debate a stone wall?



How are gold saints gonna destroy Z's LHW when it requires low multiversal power to do so


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## SF latif (Mar 22, 2017)

MatthewSchroeder said:


> Well, they say it was minutes and then they say it was hours, I dunno.
> 
> .
> 
> Point being: It did not take weeks to happen.


that was towards Ikki. after that many events happend. so likey time had passed after that. he says few minutes when athena begs him to stop it. even shaka says "few minutes"


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## Fang (Mar 22, 2017)

MatthewSchroeder said:


> Well, they say it was minutes and then they say it was hours, I dunno.
> 
> .
> 
> Point being: It did not take weeks to happen.



Holy shit Batman, that's not even the right context. When Hyouga takes Shiryuu, Seiya and Shun were already at Elysium and the gap/difference in time is a few minutes top.


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## Fang (Mar 22, 2017)

Saturno said:


> How are gold saints gonna destroy Z's LHW when it requires low multiversal power to do so



Why are you replying to my post when you can't even debate your own arguments and call others to make them for you?


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Mar 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> Why are you replying to my post when you can't even debate your own arguments and call others to make them for you?



I'm just wondering how gold saints can have  the low-multiversal power required to take out 5 LHWs.


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## Fang (Mar 22, 2017)

Saturno said:


> I'm just wondering how gold saints can have  the low-multiversal power required to take out 5 LHWs.





Fang said:


> Why are you replying to my post *when you can't even debate your own arguments and call others to make them for you?*



Answer that part first.


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Mar 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> Answer that part first.



I just wanted EM's input on  it, but I still don't see how the gold saints have the power to take out Z's LHWs.


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## Fang (Mar 22, 2017)

Saturno said:


> I just wanted EM's input on  it, but I still don't see how the gold saints have the power to take out Z's LHWs.



Translation: "I don't actually read or watch Tenchi Muyo but I want to argue against the other poster's claim despite not knowing the source material or having the capability to argue effectively with the other posters so I'll call on EM."

Neat.

Now let's see:

>Mu can destroy a universe
>Shaka can destroy a universe
>Saga can destroy a universe
>Kanon can destroy a universe
>Shion can destroy a universe
>Dohko can destroy a universe

Neato.


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Mar 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> Translation: "I don't actually read or watch Tenchi Muyo but I want to argue against the other poster's claim despite not knowing the source material or having the capability to argue effectively with the other posters so I'll call on EM."
> 
> Neat.
> 
> ...



Destroying a universe won't do much when you need low multiversal power to take out Z's LHWs.


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## Fang (Mar 22, 2017)

Saturno said:


> Destroying a universe won't do much when you need low multiversal power to take out Z's LHWs.



Good thing people like Shaka and Saga can endlessly spam those techniques to neutralize the Light-Hawk Wings. And again doesn't address the fact, Z isn't soloing shit here.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Mar 22, 2017)

Id say top tier Saints could take his wings out, since you blatently need some form of low multiversal to bypass his 5 wings. Either way hes not fast enough to do shit to most any verse that sits around his DC and durability so it doesnt matter.


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 22, 2017)

whatsausername said:


> throw em in as a bonus if you want.



Still seeing Mikaboshi and Shuma beating them


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