# This chapter proves it. Kakashi didn't become Jonin at 13. He did it much sooner.



## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

Let's get this out of the way once and for all.

Kakashi and Obito *did not* advance at anywhere close to the same rate.

Kakashi is a genin at 5.
Obito is a genin at 9.

If that doesn't already guarantee that these two will be young teammates who are 4 years apart, I don't know what does.

Kakashi is a Chuunin at age 6.
Obito becomes a Chuunin at age 11.  ( *5 years after Kakashi does it.* )

Why, based on Obito dying at the age of 13, are people assuming that Kakashi must've also been 13?

It's Rin and Obito who advanced at the same rate.

Rin became a Genin and Chuunin at the exact same ages that Obito did. Kakashi was simply far faster at advancing up the shinobi ranks than either of them.

So, explain to me why is it again that people assume that Kakashi and Obito were the same damn age during the Kakashi Gaiden, when it is *LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE* for that to be the case?

Kakashi, Obito and Rin are Genin teammates, as displayed on this page here.



It is impossible for both Kakashi and Obito to have been 13 during the Kakashi Gaiden, because there is at least a confirmed 4 year age difference between Kakashi and Obito when they were confirmed to both be Genin teammates during the Chuunin Exams. They entered the academy the same time, and  they all graduated the academy together as teammates. Kakashi was at least 4 years younger than both of his teammates at all times. There is no possible way that Kakashi was a 13 year old Jonin during the Kakashi Gaiden.

At this idea that he was 13 isn't even supported in the databooks, either. It's time we all got our facts straight. If Obito died at 13, then Kakashi was most likely 9 during the Kakashi Gaiden. It is impossible for these two teammates to have ever been the same age.

Kakashi was 13 during the Kyuubi attack on Konoha. *There is a 4 year difference between the events of the Kakashi Gaiden and the events of the night Naruto was born.*

Which means, Obito during the Kyuubi attack was 17 years old.


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## Namikaze Minato (Aug 29, 2012)

This seems plausible.


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

I can't tell you how long I've been trying to get this across to people, and now we have more concrete evidence of this being the case.

Obito is most likely 17-18 when he fights Minato.

Kakashi is 13-14 during the Kyuubi attack.

The events of the Kakashi gaiden, based on the now confirmed teammate age difference between Kakashi, Obito and Rin, confirms that Kakashi was indeed 9-10 years old during the Kakashi Gaiden.

Obito, based on whose birthday came first could have been 3 years older than Kakashi, or even 4 years older than Kakashi, *but they were definitely not both 13 years of age.*

And a bit of a correction, I don't mean to say that Obito became a Chuunin 5 years after Kakashi did. I mean to say that Obito was 5 years older than Kakashi was when he became a Chuunin. *Based on the timeline I'm working with, Obito became a Chuunin at age 11 exactly one year after Kakashi did it at the age of 6.*

*In other words, Kakashi was 7 years old when Obito became a Chuunin at the age of 11.*


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## Nic (Aug 29, 2012)

That's definitely one way for Kishi to explain the plotholes.


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## Danzio (Aug 29, 2012)

Pretty good explanation.


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

It's simply the best way, period. Kakashi was simply the younger, cockier genius of the genin trio. He was 4 years younger than both of his teammates, Obito and Rin.

He is a 9-10 year old Jonin during the events of the Kakashi Gaiden, and is a 13-14 year old Jonin during the Kyuubi's attack on Konoha. Kakashi is 26-27 years old in part one. It all fits perfectly. Just look at Naruto right now at the age of 16. This works easily.

Obito is 17-18 during the Kyuubi attack. He had a good 4 years to change drastically and train to become a significantly more powerful shinobi.


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## Rasendori (Aug 29, 2012)

Nice. Sums up the answers to my qualms pretty well.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 29, 2012)

Well, the time-difference definitely plays a huge role here, I mean Obito being older makes him a much more plausible villain and much closer to the age of his sensei (who was somewhere around his mid-twenties).


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## Chuck (Aug 29, 2012)

we might actually get that kind of explanation in the later chapters.


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## Jizznificent (Aug 29, 2012)

was it mentioned anywhere *in the manga* that kakashi became jonin at the age 13 or was it just an assumption by fans?


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## Kirath (Aug 29, 2012)

Obito must have been really short for his age and have had an extreme growth spurt in the time between Kakashi Gaiden and the attack of Konoha.


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## Lindsay (Aug 29, 2012)

> Why, based on Obito dying at the age of 13, are people assuming that Kakashi must've also been 13?



I've refuted this before.

Because Tobi stated that Itachi Uchiha was 4 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War. Since Itachi was 17/18 in Part I the war must taken place 13/14 years before Part I. Subtracting Kakashi's age in Part I (26/27) from year when Itachi was 4 (13/14 years ago), we can gather that Kakashi was roughly 13 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War.


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

Jizznificent said:


> was it mentioned anywhere *in the manga* that kakashi became jonin at the age 13 or was it just an assumption by fans?



An assumption by fans, based on the fact that Obito dies at the age of 13, and because Sakura, Naruto and Sasuke are all very close to the same age. They assumed that just because this is the case, that all teams are most likely formed of ninja at the same age, but that's far from the truth.

They also arrived at this assumption by looking at the ages of the other young Konoha teams, but times were not always the same. All three Sannin were genin at the age of 6.



Lindsay said:


> I've refuted this before.
> 
> Because Tobi stated that Itachi Uchiha was 4 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War. Since Itachi was 17/18 in Part I the war must taken place 13/14 years before Part I. Subtracting Kakashi's age in Part I (26/27) from year when Itachi was 4 (13/14 years ago), we can gather that Kakashi was roughly 13 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War.




That holds little weight when compared to the mountain of evidence we have in the other direction. And where did that information come from, exactly?

Mr. I'm Uchiha Madara.

Mr. I had nothing to do with the Kyuubi attack, it was a natural disaster.

Mr. I fought against Hashirama, and he was the only man I ever admired.

All lies. Why are we to believe *everything* that leaves his mouth. Kishi can explain that part away just as easily as all that.


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## Ezekial (Aug 29, 2012)

Obito died at 13 the same day Kakashi became a jounin at 13, stop making shit up, there the same age.


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## Axccel (Aug 29, 2012)

Lindsay said:


> I've refuted this before.
> 
> Because Tobi stated that Itachi Uchiha was 4 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War. Since Itachi was 17/18 in Part I the war must taken place 13/14 years before Part I. Subtracting Kakashi's age in Part I (26/27) from year when Itachi was 4 (13/14 years ago), we can gather that Kakashi was roughly 13 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War.



This. Never has there been team mates with such an age difference.


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

Ezekial said:


> Obito died at 13 the same day Kakashi became a jounin at 13, stop making shit up, there the same age.



What PROOF do you have that Kakashi was 13? Maybe you and other people need to stop making shit up. There has never, not once, been anything in the databooks, fanbooks, or in the manga that suggested Kakashi was 13 years of age. Know what we do have, however? We know that Kakashi became a Genin and Chuunin 4 and 5 years earlier than it took Obito and Rin to accomplish the same. 

We now have manga panels as proof that they were indeed teammates when Kakashi completed the academy, and when Kakashi participated in the Chuunin Exams. If you are too incompetent to put these basic facts together as I have, then it isn't me who needs to stop making shit up, it is you.

Or perhaps you were one of the very same people who use to disrespect other posters for believing that Tobi is Obito, and now you're trying to take out your frustrations elsewhere? Well, let me give you the short version of how this script is going to go. I don't get intimidated nor waste my time on bitter people such as yourself.

Obito became a Chuunin at age 11 -- fact.
Kakashi became a Chuunin at age 6 -- fact.

Kakashi completed the academy at age 5 -- fact.
Obito completed the academy at age 9 -- fact.

Never have there been teammates with such a difference in age? Clearly Kakashi was that damn good, and was the amazing genius son of Konoha's White Fang, and it showed at a very early age.

Want me to demolish your entire argument right now? 

How could Kakashi become a Chuunin as showcased in this chapter at the same time that he's already clearly teammates with Obito and Rin, while the databook confirms that Kakashi became a Chuunin at Age 6 and graduated the academy at age 5, while both Obito and Rin accomplished those same things 5 years and 4 years later in their lives compared to Kakashi?

The only way your argument even remotely works, is if Kakashi wasn't actually genin teammates with these two, and weren't chuunin exam teammates with these two, but we clearly see that he *was*.

*This chapter combined with the databook confirms that Kakashi couldn't have possibly been the same age as Obito and Rin during that Kakashi Gaiden, because they were never all the same age when they first became teammates in the first place, and this chapter proves it.*

They became teammates when Kakashi was 5, and Obito and Rin were both 9.


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## DoflaMihawk (Aug 29, 2012)

Making somesort of sense out of this messed up timeline is an achievement in its own right.


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## NibiruEnkiAnu (Aug 29, 2012)

man these ages are retarded

kakashi became chuunin at age 6?


the childhood love of obito, rejected him for a 7 year old boy?



god dammit kishi. please just add 7years to everyone in a retcon to make this story and everyones physical appearances in flashbacks make sense


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## Hossaim (Aug 29, 2012)

SO he was 16 during Kakashi Gaiden 

Where are you getting these numbers. They seem the same age to me.


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## Yuna (Aug 29, 2012)

This chapter also showed Minato's face as being on the Hokage Monument while Obito was still alive. Let's just say Kishimoto is a hack.

I think Team Minato were all the same age. In every single shot of them, they all look the exact same age. Or do you think Kakashi has *always* looked 4 years older than he really was? What about that photo of a really young Team Minato? What, Kakashi looked, like, 11 age at 7?


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## daschysta (Aug 29, 2012)

Lindsay said:


> I've refuted this before.
> 
> Because Tobi stated that Itachi Uchiha was 4 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War. Since Itachi was 17/18 in Part I the war must taken place 13/14 years before Part I. Subtracting Kakashi's age in Part I (26/27) from year when Itachi was 4 (13/14 years ago), we can gather that Kakashi was roughly 13 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War.



This most recent chapter proved Databook ages are shit, you can't rely on them for any theory.


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## Yuna (Aug 29, 2012)

We also saw that Team Minato all entered the academy at the same time *and* that they all looked to be the same age back then.


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

The Hokage mountain is just a mistake. No more, no less, but the databook + this chapter confirms that Kakashi is not the same age as his teammates. 

And some of you folks failed miserably at basic math. Hossaim, how do you gather that Kakashi was 16 during the Kakashi gaiden, when he is confirmed to be at least 4 years younger than Obito at the time they became genin teammates? Kakashi was 5, Obito was 9. If Obito died at the age of 13, how in god's name can Kakashi, who is suppose to be at least 4 years younger, be 16 years old and suddenly older than Obito during the Kakashi Gaiden?

Please, use your heads 



Yuna said:


> We also saw that Team Minato all entered the academy at the same time *and* that they all looked to be the same age back then.



Looked the same age doesn't mean anything in this manga. Naruto back in part 1, at the age of 12-13, looked as short as team Minato did when Kakashi was 5, Obito was 9 and Rin was 9. Itachi when he first defeated Orochimaru looked much older than he actually was. In fact, I think Itachi defeated Orochimaru at the same friggin age or younger than Naruto was back in part one. Naruto is pretty much the same height as Kakashi now at 16.


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## Jon Snow (Aug 29, 2012)

This made me think of something

if Naruto failed the academy exams time and time again, you'd assume Sasuke clearing it first time right? Naruto should be older than Sasuke/Sakura. Why isn't he?


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## Yuna (Aug 29, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> Hossaim, how do you gather that Kakashi was 16 during the Kakashi gaiden, when he is confirmed to be at least 4 years younger than Obito at the time they became genin teammates? Kakashi was 5, Obito was 9.


And how could you possibly know this? Especially when they look the same age in every panel they're both in.


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## MossMan (Aug 29, 2012)

Lindsay said:


> I've refuted this before.
> 
> Because Tobi stated that Itachi Uchiha was 4 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War. Since Itachi was 17/18 in Part I the war must taken place 13/14 years before Part I. Subtracting Kakashi's age in Part I (26/27) from year when Itachi was 4 (13/14 years ago), we can gather that Kakashi was roughly 13 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War.



We don't know how long the war lasted though.  It could have lasted for several years, so Itachi could have been born during the events of Kakashi Gaiden, and was 4 years old when the war ended.  We also don't know exactly how old Minato was when he became Hokage, or how he handled his responsibilities together with Hiruzen...and this chapter doesn't explain that.

There's still a lot of loose ends, but we need more information before we start calling "retcon" on this.


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## Sora (Aug 29, 2012)

how the hell did Obito become a genin before Sasuke?


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## GoodManJiraiya (Aug 29, 2012)

Probably Madara took Obito to the other dimension where time moves slower (think Hyperbolic Time Chamber in Dragonball Z). Could've trained there for 1 year in real time and it was actually 10 years in the other dimension.


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## Noobster (Aug 29, 2012)

On the second page they look like there around the same age. They might be a minor age gap but I highly doubt it'd be 4 years. Even though it maybe sum up the the Minato fight I still highly doubt that he'd be 4 years older than kakashi.


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## MossMan (Aug 29, 2012)

GoodManJiraiya said:


> Probably Madara took Obito to the other dimension where time moves slower (think Hyperbolic Time Chamber in Dragonball Z). Could've trained there for 1 year in real time and it was actually 10 years in the other dimension.



lol, this could also be possible.


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## Nodonn (Aug 29, 2012)

Sora said:


> how the hell did Obito become a genin before Sasuke?



In peacetime you can keep your trainees out of combat until they're completely ready for it.


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

Jon Snow said:


> This made me think of something
> 
> if Naruto failed the academy exams time and time again, you'd assume Sasuke clearing it first time right? Naruto should be older than Sasuke/Sakura. Why isn't he?



Because he was entering the academy well before he was even ready. Remember, he had no help, so he was doing everything on his own. He entered earlier than Sakura and Sasuke did, and kept failing. Sakura and Sasuke both enter and pass on their first try.



Yuna said:


> And how could you possibly know this? Especially when they look the same age in every panel they're both in.



How old they look is meaningless. You have to realize this. This manga has proven this time and time again. The databook confirms it. Kakashi became a genin at 5 years old, and he became a Chuunin one year later at age 6.

For Obito and Rin, however, they both became Genin at the age of 9, and Chuunin at the age of 11. This chapter, and other older chapters, prove that they were teammates ever since they were genin. This chapter literally shows them entering the academy together and going through the Chuunin Exam together. The only way you don't arrive at the conclusion that I have, that Kakashi had to be at least 4 years younger than his other teammates, is if you are saying the databook is wrong. If you aren't, then there's nothing to argue. *It's a canon fact. Obito died at 13, Kakashi and Obito first became teammates when Kakashi was 5 and Obito was 9. Kakashi became a Genin at 5, Obito became a genin at 9. They couldn't have been the same age during the Kakashi Gaiden.*


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

Sora said:


> how the hell did Obito become a genin before Sasuke?



He also became a genin before Minato, as did Kakashi and Rin. It isn't like regular school, where most people are expected to start at around the same age. You enter the academy when your parents either decide that you enter, or when you decide to enter.

For example, the Chuunin Exam can only be entered once all three genin teammates decide that they want to participate, not when one decides, or when just two decide. Kabuto, for example, was shown participating to become a Chuunin at a much notably higher age than team Kakashi. 

For example, Rock Lee's team, are a year ahead of Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke's team, but they neglected to enter the Chunin Exam in the previous year. They took an extra year before applying. People can apply to the academy and the Chunin Exam when they feel like doing so. They aren't exactly obligated to do it at any particular time, hence the differences in ages for when people choose to enter.

Kakashi was particular cocky and full of himself, so he entered at a crazy young age, meanwhile Obito and Rin entered at age 9. Naruto had attempted to pass the academy numerous times before eventually passing on the attempt that included Sakura and Sasuke. If Naruto had passed on his previous attempts, he likely would not have ended up as a teammate of Sasuke and Sakura.


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## Rawri (Aug 29, 2012)

The theory made sense until I read




Lindsay said:


> I've refuted this before.
> 
> Because Tobi stated that Itachi Uchiha was 4 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War. Since Itachi was 17/18 in Part I the war must taken place 13/14 years before Part I. Subtracting Kakashi's age in Part I (26/27) from year when Itachi was 4 (13/14 years ago), we can gather that Kakashi was roughly 13 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War.



and nothing made sense again. Unless the databooks are completely wrong.


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## CCV (Aug 29, 2012)

Jon Snow said:


> This made me think of something
> 
> if Naruto failed the academy exams time and time again, you'd assume Sasuke clearing it first time right? Naruto should be older than Sasuke/Sakura. Why isn't he?



According to Kushina's flash back, Naruto is actually younger than Sasuke.


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## Klue (Aug 29, 2012)

daschysta said:


> This most recent chapter proved Databook ages are shit, you can't rely on them for any theory.



The recent chapter proved the graduation ages were shit. The manga suggest that they were all the same age.


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## Yuna (Aug 29, 2012)

Sora said:


> how the hell did Obito become a genin before Sasuke?


Because he grew up during a World War, where kids were promoted faster. How the fuck was Obito a *Chuunin* in the Kakashi Gaiden when his stats didn't only *matched* Part I Sakura's stats, he had a lousy 1.5 in Genjutsu, he had piss poor Chakra control and was a joke among Uchihas due to not having yet awakened his Sharingan?! Because Konoha was fucking *desperate*.



CCV said:


> According to Kushina's flash back, Naruto is actually younger than Sasuke.


By a month.


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## tupadre97 (Aug 29, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> Let's get this out of the way once and for all.
> 
> Kakashi and Obito *did not* advance at anywhere close to the same rate.
> 
> ...



Dude its a retcon. They are the same age. Kishi fucked up. He's trollin like a god.


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## Pretty Good Satan (Aug 29, 2012)

Lindsay said:


> I've refuted this before.
> 
> Because Tobi stated that Itachi Uchiha was 4 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War. Since Itachi was 17/18 in Part I the war must taken place 13/14 years before Part I. Subtracting Kakashi's age in Part I (26/27) from year when Itachi was 4 (13/14 years ago), we can gather that Kakashi was roughly 13 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War.



Or the war lasted a few years and Itachi's experiences occurred toward the end of the war and Kakashi Gaiden takes place at the beginning...


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

Klue said:


> The recent chapter proved the graduation ages were shit. The manga suggest that they were all the same age.



Again, another stubborn one. What are you basing this on, exactly? Because they LOOK the same age? Come on, you should know better. How many years have you been paying attention to the manga now?

Itachi didn't look anywhere near as young as he was suppose to have been when he beat Orochimaru. Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke at age 12-13 looked just as small and tiny as Team Minato, who were 5 years old, 9 years old, and 9 years old. 

The only way you guys have an argument on this is if you are prepared to say the databook graduation and promotion ages were wrong, and, well, sorry, those are canon.

Bout time people accepted it, because some of you were just as stubborn about it not being Obito, and look how that turned out.


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## corsair (Aug 29, 2012)

So I guess Obito and Rin are midgets because a kid almost half their age is the biggest one in the group.


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## Yuna (Aug 29, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> Again, another stubborn one. What are you basing this on, exactly? Because they LOOK the same age? Come on, you should know better. How many years have you been paying attention to the manga now?


So you think think Kakashi has just always looked the exact same age as Obito, despite being 4 or so years younger than him? In every single panel they share, they looked to be the exact same age, from their first appearance (the photo of them as kids with Minato) to this chapter. Every single time, they've looked the exact same age, even as they grew up. They're always roughly the same height too.

Say what? Kishimoto messed up/retconned the shit out of things, simple as that. Or Kakashi is a mutant.


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## Kage (Aug 29, 2012)

if kakashi was older he looked like a runt at the time of the mission where obito died.


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## tnorbo (Aug 29, 2012)

all this chapter proved was that kishi doesn't care about his timeline, which incidentily is the only tobito makes sense.


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## Orochibuto (Aug 29, 2012)

And yet a week ago the skeptics were so vehemently opossed to accept anything but Obito being 14 and claim it was impossible because of the timeline.

Now we see them claiming Obito was bigger, obviously denying some of the awesomeness should the guy be 14 

Sage, I dont remember, were you among those who said he HAD to be no bigger than 15 or no?


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## Bumi (Aug 29, 2012)

Are you guys seriously thinking that Kakashi was 9 during the Gaiden? 

It's simple. Kishi fucked up his timeline. Disregard all the databook ages. Kakashi became a genin at the same time as Obito and Rin, and he is also the same age as them. Kakashi became a chuunin maybe a year or so before Obito and Rin. Chapter 599 establishes this. Unless it says that Kakashi became a genin at 5 and chuunin at 6 in an actual manga chapter, you can't take those ages as fact. (I can't remember for sure, so if there is a chapter that contains that information, please feel free to make fun of me and continue on with your day.)

Manga pages trump the databook ages (even if Kishi did write it) and the fanon timeline.


There were a couple of other confusing (and perhaps even contradicting) things in this chapter as well. Why the fuck was the Yondaime's face on the Hokage mountain, for example? Kishi/his assistants must have reused the background. But still. That's a pretty big oversight, I think. I think Kishi just really wanted to get this chapter out and didn't necessarily check it over properly.


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## Lindsay (Aug 29, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> That holds little weight when compared to the mountain of evidence we have in the other direction. And where did that information come from, exactly?
> 
> Mr. I'm Uchiha Madara.
> 
> ...




Except it was a critical plot point as to why Itachi was willing to kill his clan to avoid a 4th Shinobi War. 

Chapter 400, Page 4. Madara states, "During the Third Ninja War... Itachi had seen many people die at the tender age of *4*."

Furthermore do you really think Tobi could tell Sasuke an obvious lie about the dates of the 3rd Shinobi War? Sasuke obviously wanted Tobi's story to be wrong and such a lie would have made Sasuke ignore everything spewed from Tobi's mouth. Sasuke isn't completely stupid and knew Itachi's age and most likely knew the dates of the 3rd Shinobi War.




MossMan said:


> We don't know how long the war lasted though.  It could have lasted for several years, so Itachi could have been born during the events of Kakashi Gaiden, and was 4 years old when the war ended.  We also don't know exactly how old Minato was when he became Hokage, or how he handled his responsibilities together with Hiruzen...and this chapter doesn't explain that.
> 
> There's still a lot of loose ends, but we need more information before we start calling "retcon" on this.



The battle of Kannabi bridge was called the turning point of the war so likely it was near the middle to late stages of the war.

Minato was at oldest 29 when he became Hokage. We know this because the Konohagakure Council mentioned that Minato was younger than Kakashi (thirty years old) when he became the Hokage [Ch. 450; Pg. 15].


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

Yuna said:


> So you think think Kakashi has just always looked the exact same age as Obito, despite being 4 or so years younger than him? In every single panel they share, they looked to be the exact same age, from their first appearance (the photo of them as kids with Minato) to this chapter. Every single time, they've looked the exact same age, even as they grew up. They're always roughly the same height too.
> 
> Say what? Kishimoto messed up/retconned the shit out of things, simple as that. Or Kakashi is a mutant.



Yea, keep in mind this is a work of fiction. Kishimoto draws things and says things early on, and then probably makes up his mind more specifically as to what he wants to do with those things later on. However, there is a very simple reason for why he would draw them all appearing to look like the same age, because he wants to give off that sense that these 3 are all equal teammates, as in new rookie shinobi.

He doesn't want any of the teammates on the team to appear as if they are somehow notably much older shinobi than the rest. He leaves it up to the sensei and older ninja to appear much older than the kids, but he doesn't like doing it with members of the same team. There are other instances, however. Look at Kabuto and his team. One dude looked like a fully grown adult, whereas Kabuto looked like a much younger, but still clearly older person than Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura. Look at Kankurou, Temari and Gaara. Kankurou looks like he was older than the rest.


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> And yet a week ago the skeptics were so vehemently opossed to accept anything but Obito being 14 and claim it was impossible because of the timeline.
> 
> Now we see them claiming Obito was bigger, obviously denying some of the awesomeness should the guy be 14
> 
> *Sage, I dont remember, were you among those who said he HAD to be no bigger than 15 or no?*



No, I was not. I was decided that Obito had to be 17-18 as of the Kyuubi attack even before this week, and I created a thread as proof, which I will find and link in this thread now.

Okay, I didn't create a thread. I just typed it all in another thread, two to be precise.



I was saying this all since August 11th.



SageEnergyMode said:


> Most of the people talking about plot holes don't even seem to know what the heck a plot hole really is. This is a weekly story, told on a weekly basis. The story isn't finished being told until the author finishes it. You can't with any bit of serious accuracy talk about time related plot holes well before the author has even finished telling his story when so much is left open to interpretation. People are making assumptions about what transpired, but the reality is that they do not know for sure. If they did, they would be Masashi Kishimoto as opposed to who they actually are.
> 
> I think we've all seen proof of the fact for some time now that Tobi's body isn't normal by any stroke of the imagination. We've seen extraordinarily powerful shinobi in this manga also turn out to be extremely young. We don't fully know what's going on until Kishi decides to explain it more thoroughly. It's really as simple as that. Did people look at Kakashi's height during the flashback to the Kyuubi attack on Konoha? Why is it impossible that Obito could have grown in a similar fashion, possibly ending up slightly taller than even Kakashi himself?
> 
> ...


----------



## DarkTorrent (Aug 29, 2012)

Lindsay said:


> Except it was a critical plot point as to why Itachi was willing to kill his clan to avoid a 4th Shinobi War.
> 
> Chapter 400, Page 4. Madara states, "During the Third Ninja War... Itachi had seen many people die at the tender age of *4*."
> 
> ...



Have you forgotten about the Kumo - Konoha War, which ended with a Peace Treaty at the date of Hinata's 3d Birthday? This may very well have been the final end of 3d Great Shinobi War.


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

When in doubt, just keep in mind that Tobi has lied about a lot of shit. He lied about knowing Hashirama on a personal basis, and that he fought him many times. He sounded pretty damn convincing about their fights against one another, and how much he admired the man. Unless this dude turns out to be Izuna, which seems damn unlikely, there's no way in hell that Obito could personally know the First Hokage. Hence, if he can makeup something like that and make it sound so convincing, are we really doubting what he could make up about Itachi? Come on.

The dude even squeezed his hand to make it look like he was angry as he was talking about his (Madara's little brother) giving up his eyes of his own free will, and how his brother's sacrifice was for nothing, because the Uchiha made a truce with the Senju.


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## NaruMyaku (Aug 29, 2012)

What PROOF is there that Kakashi and Obito were 5 years apart? They're the same height in the most recent chapter. Not once are their ages mentioned. All we know is that Kakashi became a chunnin and a Jounnin before Obito did.

If you do have proof find the chapters that mention Kakashi's age and it's correlation to the past and post them. Otherwise you have NO facts

--Isn't it annoying when people say "fact" when there is none?


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## Bamfaliscious M (Aug 29, 2012)

Kakashi being a chunnin @ 6, Obviously it requires him being younger and thus starting some kind of earlier @ the academy. Even if the age gap isn't as big as some claim.
Kakashi is one of the top tier Geniuses in the Manga and it's always being harped on about, his insight, tactical/analytical and combat skills, intelligence, technical skill, Developing his own Ninjutsu (without help, since his sensei was surprised/shocked when Kakashi Used Chidori in the Gaiden).

If he's doing this and not even his own sensei is needed, him being 9-10 and a Jounin during a World War isn't really absurd. Hell even 13, is still young and not impossible.[which people were guessing as the Gaiden age, working back from Manga start]


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

@*NaruMyaku* It's more annoying when people such as yourself have even less to go on, like those people who said there was absolutely no evidence suggesting that Tobi could be Obito, despite all the strong evidence to the contrary. You have even less facts than I do, but I actually have a detailed argument to back up what I am saying?

What exactly do you have NaruMyaku? Oh, that's right, they "look like they're the same age." How old are some of you people? Is this the best way that you can debate this? I have confirmed databook ages for when Kakashi and Obito became genin and Chuunin.

I have a damn manga chapter to back up what I'm saying, *this week's manga chapter*, that proves that they both became genin at the same time, and even participated in the Chuunin exam together, meaning Kakashi had to be 5 when he became a genin, Obito had to be 9, and Kakashi had to be 6 when he became a Chuunin, and Obito had to be 11 when he became a Chuunin.

Itachi became an ANBU Captain at 13, became a Chuunin at age 10, and graduated from the academy at age 7. Some of this info is from the manga, and others are from in the databook, but none of it contradicts each other. Where is the proof that Kakashi and Obito were 4 years apart?

Can you think logically? If Kakashi became a genin at age 5, and Obito became a genin at age 9. What does that tell you? What does it tell you? There is a 4 year age difference. I have to be talking to someone much, much younger than myself, because it's stunning you can't understand this.

When Obito became a Chuunin at age 11, Kakashi had to more or less be 7 years old.


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## Kyrie Eleison (Aug 29, 2012)

I'm still wondering how Guy fits into this new timeline in respect to Kakashi...
He's around the same age as Kakashi (30 vs 29-30) so he's either 8 months older or 20 months older (the former being far more likely). He is seen with the same Academy group as Kakashi and graduates the Academy at age 7 (Kakashi graduates at age 5). His team enters in the Chuunin Exams the following year and he comes in second place (Kakashi becomes a Chuunin at this point, at the age of 6) and becomes a Chuunin three years later (at the age of 11), some time prior to Kakashi becoming a Jounin...

I think trying to figure out the timeline is having some ill effects on my intelligence...and I'm still not quite sure how Anko now fits into the equation...


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

Think about it like this: Neji, Lee and Tenten were all one year ahead of Sakura, Sasuke and Naruto. They graduated from the academy one year before they did.

In other words, Neji and Lee were probably around 13-14 when they were really introduced to us in the manga in part one, meanwhile Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke were around 12-13. Kabuto confirms in chapter 39 of this manga that Lee is one year older than they are. Lee was considered a standout among last year's genins, but he didn't enter the Chunin Exam last year, so it was also his first time in the Chunin Exam, just like Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke.

All you need to do to understand the times, is to understand that not everybody needs to join or complete the academy at the exact same time. Kakashi most likely didn't need to enter the academy at the age of 5, but he did anyway. He could have waited till he was 12, like Minato did. In fact, just because you complete the academy at a certain age, doesn't mean that's when you started the academy. For example, we can assume the best ninjas all completed the academy in their first year, but someone like Naruto took many tries. Maybe if he had completed the academy a year earlier, he would have been on Neji and Rock Lee's team.


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## Nagato Sennin (Aug 29, 2012)

Was it stated that Naruto was 12 in the manga and not the Databook?


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

Wow, thanks to someone who wants no credit for this find, but I will acknowledge that I myself didn't even remember this, I have manga confirmation of Kakashi's age when he became a Chunin, and it's directly compared to Naruto's age.

*Chapter 35 Iruka vs Kakashi


Kakashi: I was six years younger than Naruto when I attained the rank of Chunin, Iruka.

Iruka: Naruto's not like you!
*

Done and done, there it is. The manga itself confirming the databook age of when Kakashi became a Chunin.

Here is a page, and I have the official shonen release that confirms this as well.



In other words, in this very chapter today, where we see Kakashi getting his rank of Chunin, the dude was 6 years old!!


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## Hexa (Aug 29, 2012)

Well, technically, it's possible there would only be a 3-year difference.


Kakashi became a chuunin at age 6.
Obito became a genin at age 9*.
Obito and Kakashi at a point in time were both genin, taking the chuunin exam together.
A 4-year difference makes more sense, since it would mean the genin team formed as soon as all members became genin, but the absolute minimum is a 3-year difference.

*NOTE: Obito's graduation age comes from the databook, which proved itself untrustworthy for a lot of character's ages this week.


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## Ricky Sen (Aug 29, 2012)

You're right. Irrefutable evidence that Obito and Rin were older than Kakashi. Unless several retcons occur, this is the established timeline. Age to size correlations are all kinds of fucked in this series so we cannot make any determinations from those. Otherwise we have to accept the fact that Itachi was Orichimaru sized at age 11 and then magically got shorter before the Uchiha massacre. Dat reverse growth spurt.


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## BrokenBonds (Aug 29, 2012)

Nope, it is more likely they are the same age:



Kakashi Hatake: graduated at the age of five

Might Guy: graduated at the age of seven

It is confirmed they are the same age even though they graduated at different times and participated in the same Chunin Exams.


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## AnimeGreatNinja (Aug 29, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> *Chapter 35 Iruka vs Kakashi
> 
> 
> Kakashi: I was six years younger than Naruto when I attained the rank of Chunin, Iruka.
> ...


Nice find, although not very trustworthy in my eyes as its from almost the beginning of the manga. Byakugan, anyone? I'm not sure kishi thought this far ahead at that time...

That being said, I wonder if he even cares whether Obito was 18 or 14 during the Kyuubi attack. 

I'd like him to be younger Kudos on the theory, very solid, just.... databook 

*EDIT:*
Ah, forgot to say. The academy entrance shot is what sealed it for me. So this random kid 4 years younger lounging in the shot, when so emphasized in parallel shots they were all the same age.


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## Wax Knight (Aug 29, 2012)

ummm Kakashi became a chunin at the age of 6, right? that mean that at that time Obito and Rin must've been at least 9 in order to take the chunin exams which is the age they graduated, so Obito can be from 0-3 years older than Kakashi, depending on the age he graduated in. 
So at the time of the attack, Obito cannot be older than 17, assuming Kakshi was 14, and Obito is 3 years older.


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## Rosencrantz (Aug 29, 2012)

Sounds like selective reading OP. You ignore what wrecks you argument (a lot from what I have seen) and onl use evidence that backs you up. No worries though. Just like 99 percent of NF.


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## Guiness (Aug 29, 2012)

Yeah SEM.

Kakashi himself stated he became Chuunin when he was 6.

How can you say he became Chuunin when he was 7 if that was the case?


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## Yuna (Aug 29, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Well, technically, it's possible there would only be a 3-year difference.
> 
> 
> Kakashi became a chuunin at age 6.
> ...


Except this makes no sense if you look at the art. Kakashi is *always* seen to be the same height as Obito and look roughly the same age as him *every single time* they're shown together, from when they first entered the academy to Obito's dying day.

So you're saying... Kakashi is a mutant who's *always* looked 4 years older than he really is?


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

foreign said:


> Yeah SEM.
> 
> Kakashi himself stated he became Chuunin when he was 6.
> 
> How can you say he became Chuunin when he was 7 if that was the case?



Umm... I didn't? I said Kakashi became a Chunin at age 6. I said that OBITO became a Chuunin when Kakashi, keeping with the 4 year age difference, was most likely 7.

And for those talking about arguments that destroy my rationale, it's pretty funny how these arguments that destroy my argument are nowhere to be seen.



Yuna said:


> Except this makes no sense if you look at the art. Kakashi is *always* seen to be the same height as Obito and look roughly the same age as him *every single time* they're shown together, from when they first entered the academy to Obito's dying day.
> 
> So you're saying... Kakashi is a mutant who's *always* looked 4 years older than he really is?



You know what? I'm really, really tired of hearing this kind of nonsense, so let's put an end to it right now, shall we?

Kakashi has always appeared to be the same height as Obito? Really?

Tell me what you think now.

If you can't see that, standing side by side, that Obito is clearly taller and bigger in size than Kakashi, then I don't know what to tell you.


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## Yuna (Aug 29, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> He also became a genin before Minato, as did Kakashi and Rin.


And yet Obito's stats at the time of his supposed death (when he was a Chuunin) were the same as Sakura's Part I stats (for the latter part of Part I) and Sakura was as Genin as they came in Part I. I'm surprised she was even allowed to graduate.

Obito lived during a time of World War. Obviously, people were overpromoted back then.


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## Wax Knight (Aug 29, 2012)

Kish is just bad with age, I mean Itachi as a 13 year-old looked more like 19-20ish


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

Stop stressing over stats. Obito was the naruto version of that team, and he became much stronger later once he awakened his Sharingan, but his stats more or less do not represent the Sharingan Obito. It mostly represents the Obito that we saw constantly getting it handed to him by Gai in this chapter, and who would mess up so often and make excuses for why he messed up.

Let's not act as if Naruto and Sasuke as genin weren't already stronger than some Chunin and even Jonin, because they were. Same goes for Gaara, Lee, Neji, Shino, you name it. Sakura is extremely intelligent. She has the best analytical mind of team 7, and she was said to have the most natural talent for Genjutsu, believe it or not. That may not translate to her being a deadlier genjutsu user than Sasuke, but she was certainly the more gifted at dealing with Genjutsu early on in team 7.

Now, even Naruto is better than her in that regard.

Hell, she even accurately guessed what Tobi's ability was really doing before everybody else, even Kakashi


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## Yuna (Aug 29, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> You know what? I'm really, really tired of hearing this kind of nonsense, so let's put an end to it right now, shall we?
> 
> Kakashi has always appeared to be the same height as Obito? Really?
> 
> ...


Roughly the same size, not the exact same size. So you're telling me that Kakashi at age 13 was only a few inches shorter than Obito at age *fucking 17*? Is Obito a *midget*?! Rin is *shorter* than Kakashi!

Also, if you take a look at the bottom panel, they're roughly the same height (Kakashi and Obito) from the front, give or take 2-3 inches, so the 1st panel is probably just a case of bad perspective (which also explains why Obito's head is so huge).

Also, *how come you complete ignored the argument about how Kishi retconned the shit out of people's ages this chapter*?! You claim Obito's graduation data is still accurate. Why is it? When Anko's and Hayate's clearly no longer are? Sure, Kakashi's graduation data is manga canon, but Obito's isn't.


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## Hexa (Aug 29, 2012)

Yuna said:


> Except this makes no sense if you look at the art.


Given what we saw in this chapter, the timeline requires Obito to be at least 3 years older than Kakashi.  The timeline is seriously messed up, however--definitely if we include databook info into it.


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## AoshiKun (Aug 29, 2012)

Dude it's a retcon.
The DB says Kakashi became Genin at 5 and Chuunin at 6 however this is* impossible.*

Does Kakashi look like a 6 years boy when he got his Chuunin paper? No, he doesn't. I'm sure Kishimoto changed his mind.


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

AoshiKun said:


> Dude it's a retcon.
> The DB says Kakashi became Genin at 5 and Chuunin at 6 however this is* impossible.*
> 
> Does Kakashi look like a 6 years boy when he got his Chuunin paper? No, he doesn't. I'm sure Kishimoto changed his mind.



Stop with these weak arguments. This is the way Kishimoto draws the manga... 

Did Itachi look like a 12-13 year old boy when he owned Orochimaru, a grown ass man in his 40s? He has a default way to draw and indicate kids that are younger, and he has a default way to draw adults, usually only differentiating when there are serious height differences. Do you realize what an utter shrimp Naruto was at 12-13? He was around the same height as genin Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura.


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## Misha (Aug 29, 2012)

Rin and Kakashi are the same height. His hair gives him an edge. Rin could have been very short for her age, or Kakashi tall for his age. It's really not that big an issue. It's not like he's towering over anybody. People mature at different rates. 

As for the databooks, they do not trump manga canon. End of story. People have always debated the validity of the DB, and as shown here and now, we know that they are not the end all and be all, and will never be. Focus on MANGA canon people, not what the DBs say.


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

Misha said:


> Rin and Kakashi are the same height. His hair gives him an edge. Rin could have been very short for her age, or Kakashi tall for his age.
> 
> As for the databooks, they do not trump manga canon. End of story. People have always debated the validity of the DB, and as shown here and now, we know that they are not the end all and be all, and will never be. Focus on MANGA canon people, not DB canon.



The databook is canon, as most of it goes directly based on what is presented in the manga. Now, what you are debating are the minor things, such as ages for unimportant characters, or what is their favorite food. The databook has always acted on the knowledge that readers know only as much as what the manga has so far revealed, but the databook has been accurate to the manga about hundreds of things. It will take far more than a few minor discrepancies that can be easily explained to change that.

The databook and manga go hand in hand, so it's canon. The databook is not somehow meant to reveal things that readers aren't suppose to know until the manga itself reveals them. The real reason there is this backlash against the validity of the databook is because people can't accept the very thing they've been dreading this entire time, the possibility that Tobi truly is Obito, so they are looking elsewhere to direct their anger.

Focus on who is truly saying the databook means nothing now, and every last one of them are tobi = obito deniers


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## Yuna (Aug 29, 2012)

Hexa said:


> Given what we saw in this chapter, the timeline requires Obito to be at least 3 years older than Kakashi.  The timeline is seriously messed up, however--definitely if we include databook info into it.


Why? *10armadillopenises*


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## Nagato Sennin (Aug 29, 2012)

Let's say Naruto was 14 at part 1. Kakashi would be 8 and Obito would be 11. It would make perfect sense.


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 29, 2012)

Well, I've said and, I think, proved all that I really need to prove.


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## phatpimpX4 (Aug 29, 2012)

Lindsay said:


> I've refuted this before.
> Because Tobi stated that Itachi Uchiha was 4 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War. Since Itachi was 17/18 in Part I the war must taken place 13/14 years before Part I. Subtracting Kakashi's age in Part I (26/27) from year when Itachi was 4 (13/14 years ago), we can gather that Kakashi was roughly 13 years old at the time of the 3rd Shinobi War.


This can be true and the OP's logic can also make sense. Just because Kakashi was 13 years old during the 3rd shinobi war, doesn't mean that Kakashi Gaiden took place when he was 13. The reason for this is because wars can last many years. Maybe Kakashi was 9 years old when Obito died and the war was still going on when Kakashi was 13.
This is further supported by the fact that the manga states the battle where Obito died was the turning point of the war. If it was the turning point for Konoha, many years could have been left before they won.


Yuna said:


> Roughly the same size, not the exact same size. So you're telling me that Kakashi at age 13 was only a few inches shorter than Obito at age *fucking 17*? Is Obito a *midget*?! Rin is *shorter* than Kakashi!
> Also, if you take a look at the bottom panel, they're roughly the same height (Kakashi and Obito) from the front, give or take 2-3 inches, so the 1st panel is probably just a case of bad perspective (which also explains why Obito's head is so huge).


The size argument is sort of ridiculous. When I was 13 I was 5 foot 9 and my cousin who was 17 was 5 foot 5. I go to a jiu jitsu school where I’ve seen a five year old the same size as an 11 year old (same height and weight). Matter of fact the five year old who has been training for a longer period of time beats the crap out of the scrawny 11 year old. If it can happen in real life, it can happen in a manga about magical fucking ninjas.


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## T7 Bateman (Aug 29, 2012)

Well I don't think you can use height to try and tell someone's age. Some people are just short and some people are just tall. Hell I have seen 10 year boys tall as hell and they look like they are 15. People grow differently but it looks like Kakashi was 6 when he became a Chuunin he even said that.


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## ATastyMuffin (Aug 29, 2012)

I find it hard to believe that Rin would have a crush on a guy four years younger than her, but hey, don't knock it till you try it.




*Spoiler*: __


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## AoshiKun (Aug 29, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> Stop with these weak arguments. This is the way Kishimoto draws the manga...
> 
> Did Itachi look like a 12-13 year old boy when he owned Orochimaru, a grown ass man in his 40s? He has a default way to draw and indicate kids that are younger, and he has a default way to draw adults, usually only differentiating when there are serious height differences. Do you realize what an utter shrimp Naruto was at 12-13? He was around the same height as genin Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura.


If this is the way he draws his manga then I'm sorry but he sucks.
You can't be serious to think that Kakashi was 6 years old, no one can be that bad.

Kishimoto retcon Kakashi's graduation to fit better in Obito's story and also the Hokage Mountain which appears Minato's face. Also this is just the beginning because I'm sure Kishi will retcon other things too like the Yagura thing.



T7 Bateman said:


> Well I don't think you can use height to try and tell someone's age. Some people are just short and some people are just tall. Hell I have seen 10 year boys tall as hell and they look like they are 15. People grow differently but it looks like Kakashi was 6 when he became a Chuunin he even said that.


I've never seen a 6 years kid look like a 10 years one without some serious disease.


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## T7 Bateman (Aug 29, 2012)

^^^^^^^^^^
Well why not she wasn't looking at his age she was looking at this amazing person who she liked. Age ain't nothing but a number. lol


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## Yuna (Aug 29, 2012)

phatpimpX4 said:


> The size argument is sort of ridiculous. When I was 13 I was 5 foot 9 and my cousin who was 17 was 5 foot 5. I go to a jiu jitsu school where I’ve seen a five year old the same size as an 11 year old (same height and weight). Matter of fact the five year old who has been training for a longer period of time beats the crap out of the scrawny 11 year old. If it can happen in real life, it can happen in a manga about magical fucking ninjas.


What part of "Kakashi has always been roughly the same height and looked roughly the same age as Obito" was too Canadian French pour toi the first 12 times I said it?!

Every single time we've seen them together, from back when they first entered the academy to Obito's day of "death", they look like they're the same age.

This chapter retconned *the shit* out of several characters' ages. So let's pretend that Kakashi and Obito weren't the same age. Let's say that everything we knew from before is true.

This means that Kakashi graduated from the academy at age 5 after having been enrolled in it for 1 year, which means that the Kakashi we saw in this flashback, despite looking the same age and being of roughly the same height as Obito was *fucking four years old*. So a *nine yearold* Obito and Rin were *fucking midgets* because they were roughly the same height and size as a *four year old* Kakashi.

You know what else we know? Anko is 2 years younger than Kakashi and Hayate is 3 years younger, yet we *know* that at least Hayate was in the same class as Kakashi and Obito, which means that Hayate enrolled into the academy at the age of *fucking one*. That's one mighty big one yearold.

We later see Hayate and his team taking the Chunnin exam at the same time as Kakashi. Hayate and his Team battle Anko and her team. Kakashi became a Chuunin at age 6, which means that that's a 3 yearold Hayate fighting a 4 yearold Anko, yet they both look the same age as Obito. The what now?!

*Occam's razor:* Kishi retconned the shit out of everybody's ages and their dates of graduation from the academy but Kakashi.
*Convoluted Fanon:* Kakashi is some kind of *fucking mutant*. He's always been roughly as tall and large as Obito and Rin, despite being 4 years younger than them. At age *fucking four* he was the same height and size as Obito and Rin *at eight years old*. Furthermore, a *fucking one year old* Hayate is roughly the same size and height as an *eight* year old Obito and Rin! The same goes for a *fucking two/three* yearold Anko!


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## T7 Bateman (Aug 29, 2012)

AoshiKun said:


> I've never seen a 6 years kid look like a 10 years one without some serious disease.



Well don't know what to tell you cause I have. If you go to an Elementary around here you would be shock at how the kids look and their ages. Again people grow how they grow and you can't tell age on some people by their height.


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## NO (Aug 29, 2012)

Great post! Finally it makes sense.


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## Yuna (Aug 29, 2012)

T7 Bateman said:


> Well don't know what to tell you cause I have. If you go to an Elementary around here you would be shock at how the kids look and their ages. Again people grow how they grow and you can't tell age on some people by their height.


Again, take a look at page 2 of the chapter. We see a 4 yearold Kakashi next to what is allegedly an 8 yearold Obito and Rin. To the side, we see a *1 year old* Hayate and  they all *look the same age and are roughly the same height*.

Fucking *1 year old* Hayate can walk and everything! And at 2, he's wielding a sword and participating in the Chuunin exam! This is what you have to believe if you don't think Kishimoto has retconned *the shit* out of people's ages this chapter.


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## AnimeGreatNinja (Aug 29, 2012)

^the gods have answered


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## Mider T (Aug 29, 2012)

Wait what?  What 4 year gap?


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## Yuna (Aug 29, 2012)

Mider T said:


> Wait what?  What 4 year gap?


People's heads exploded from the implication that character ages and graduation dates have been retconned. They exploded so violently they were thrown into a parallel dimension, where there's a 4 year gap and where a *fucking 1 year old* can walk, talk, perform Ninjutsu and at 2 wield a sword.


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## Decoyi (Aug 29, 2012)

As long as 100% of the facts are not available, people will make stuff like this.  I'm sorry but the simple answer is that this is a plot-hole.  If you actually try to make a timeline based on just SOME of the "facts", you immediately run into problems.  

So Kakashi gaiden was "around" 10 years ago(direct quote from 232).  That would imply that Naruto is alive during the war because hes like 12 at the start.  But Naruto can't be alive becuase of obvious things, such as his father being alive.  

So, do we assume that Kakashi Gaiden was at least 12 years ago? 13? 14? We are getting pretty far away from 10, aren't we?  Meanwhile you still have Tobito, who is 13 and dies(supposedly 10 years ago).  But wait, The appearance of Tobi when he attacks Yondaime is that of an adult.  He doesn't look like the mini ninjas that were drawn for Kakashi Gaiden.  

So Since naruto is at least 12 years from Kakashi Gaiden, and Obito would need at least 2 years to grow...would you like us to assume that all this happend 14 or 15+ years ago, and respect that as evidence, or a sound theory?

Bad plothole is bad, stop trying to justify it with assumptions that don't hold water.


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## 4ghost (Aug 29, 2012)

Hey OP this interpretation certainly would address many of the timeline inconsistencies and it is actually how I had originally interpreted the Kakashi Gaiden myself when it first came out.  Unfortunately Kishimoto isn't as detail oriented with times, histories and other facts from his story as Oda and some other authors are.

Kakashi and Obito are actually only one year apart in age.  At the time of Obito's "death", which was said to be 13, from the info I was able to gather the youngest that Kakashi could have possibly been was 11.  

The following quotes should explain how I arrived at this and the facts that back it up.


*Spoiler*: __ 





4ghost said:


> Okay I understand the math, but I'm not following where leafninja is getting their numbers from. I'm trying to figure out where they got the "approximately 17 years ago" from.  I do see mention of the 3rd shinobi war being approximately 10 years ago in the narration at the start of the Kakashi Gaiden, but that number really just leaves a lot more questions.
> 
> Anyway it was  thread and post that makes me question Kakashi being the same age as Obito was in that Gaiden.  It is not that big of a difference, but I looks like Kakashi should have been about 12 in that Gaiden.
> 
> ...







*Spoiler*: __ 





4ghost said:


> The only problem I have with this is I don't remember it being stated in the data book that Kakashi was 8 when his father died, or that it was near his 13th birthday during the gaiden. I would appreciate it if you could point it out, is just that I don't think those hard numbers were given in the story or databooks.
> 
> The confusion of Kakashi's birthday being associated with the gaiden might be coming from the fact that he was receiving presents for his jounin promotion.
> 
> If the Kakashi Gaiden was near his birthday, it would actually be near his 12th rather than his 13th.  Obito, who is from the same generation as Asuma who is a year older than Kakshi, had his birthday 7 months before Kakashi's.  Obito's birthday is February 10th, while Kakashi's is September 15th.  There is no way for Obito to die at the age of 13 and for Kakashi to be near his 13th birthday at the same time.


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## Zerocartoo (Aug 29, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> Kakashi was 13 during the Kyuubi attack on Konoha. *There is a 4 year difference between the events of the Kakashi Gaiden and the events of the night Naruto was born.*
> 
> Which means, Obito during the Kyuubi attack was 17 years old.


I hate to disagree with you, but it doesn't fit the fact:



> Link removed
> "Around 10 years ago..."



Basically you say that the events of the Kakashi Gaiden happened 21 years ago

That seems a bit extreme, Kishimoto could have said around "20 years ago" instead.

Regards.


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## Summers (Aug 30, 2012)

Yuna said:


> Again, take a look at page 2 of the chapter. We see a 4 yearold Kakashi next to what is allegedly an 8 yearold Obito and Rin. To the side, we see a *1 year old* Hayate and  they all *look the same age and are roughly the same height*.
> 
> Fucking *1 year old* Hayate can walk and everything! And at 2, he's wielding a sword and participating in the Chuunin exam! This is what you have to believe if you don't think Kishimoto has retconned *the shit* out of people's ages this chapter.



Ninja's might as well be Jounin as soon as they can say Goo Goo Ga ga.


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## mlc818 (Aug 30, 2012)

Honestly, I don't think anyone can say that Databook ages are canon.  If the age was mentioned IN THE MANGA, then that qualifies, but the most recent chapter implies that a lot of "mentor" characters are from the same class, so I wouldn't take the databook ages as gospel.

It's equally likely that this is a retcon, or that Kishi just doesn't know how to draw well enough to differentiate between the ages of 6 and 10, which certainly isn't impossible.   But my first assumption would be that databook ages are made up and inaccurate unless they were specifically mentioned in the text.


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## emanresu (Aug 30, 2012)

of course kakashi youngest out of the three in the group. in kakahsi gaiden kaakshi's shortest


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## Tidezen (Aug 31, 2012)

NibiruEnkiAnu said:


> man these ages are retarded
> 
> kakashi became chuunin at age 6?
> 
> ...



I KNOW, this is the biggest thing I just facepalmed about the whole time this timeline/age discussion has been going on.  Unless we're in a world were people develop at drastically different rates from our own, these age ranges don't make much sense in the first place, for anyone.  Just add 7 years onto everyone's age and it would make sense just fine.

Why are people fighting over silly timelines that didn't make sense in the first place?  Tobito's reveal has nothing to do with this.  Little kids are not ninjas, I'm sorry.


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## Rama (Aug 31, 2012)

By the manga and databook information you are absolutely correct, but you got to realize Kishi retconned the ages.


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## Arthas (Aug 31, 2012)

Yuna said:


> And yet Obito's stats at the time of his supposed death (when he was a Chuunin) were the same as Sakura's Part I stats (for the latter part of Part I) and Sakura was as Genin as they came in Part I. I'm surprised she was even allowed to graduate.
> 
> Obito lived during a time of World War. Obviously, people were overpromoted back then.



I'm doing a wait and see for the next chapter where hopefully Kishi will explain (although I doubt I'll get a good explanation) but in regards to age and Stat scores Yuna is correct. 

Consider this comment made by Orochimaru in regards to Sasuke:

"People used to call me a genius but at that age, even *I was nothing *compared to him." Naruto Chapter 343 page 003.

The fact that Orochimaru made such comment means that Sasuke must have not just been better but *a whole lot better* at the same age. In other words: 16 Year Old Sasuke >>>>> 16 Year Old Orochimaru.

So Orochimaru became a Gennin at 6, was trained by the man who would become the Third Hokage, fought in the Second Shinobi War and yet was much weaker at the same age then Sasuke who became a Gennin at 12.

Regarding Kakashi: Did I mention the fact that on the day he became Jounin the Yondaime said that the Military power of Konoha had dropped to all time low? 

Gee I wonder why Konoha decided to make a 13 year old a jounin...


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## SageEnergyMode (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm just laughing at how po'd this chapter has made people. When the arguments against what I'm saying are THIS weak, you know the argument is already won.


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## Oga Tatsumi (Aug 31, 2012)

People should not take the last chapter so seriously there were a lot of mistakes

- Minato's Hokage Monument
- Obito's with blonde hair
- [Speculation]Hiruzen looks mucher older than he should be.

they're probably others.

Hope Kishi fix them in the Volume releases.


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## insane111 (Aug 31, 2012)

A prepubescent Kakashi (and Guy) was the same height as an adolescent Obito and Rin? How does that work? In this chapter, Guy&Obito were also shown to be the same height, there's no way he was 4-5 years older than Guy (whom is the same age as Kakashi). It's blatantly obvious that Guy/Kakashi/Obito/Rin are all in the same age bracket.


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## Klue (Aug 31, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> Again, another stubborn one. What are you basing this on, exactly? Because they LOOK the same age? Come on, you should know better. How many years have you been paying attention to the manga now?
> 
> Itachi didn't look anywhere near as young as he was suppose to have been when he beat Orochimaru. Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke at age 12-13 looked just as small and tiny as Team Minato, who were 5 years old, 9 years old, and 9 years old.
> 
> ...



Anko age is listed as 24 during the first portion of the story, meaning she is two years younger than Kakashi - she graduated the Academy at the age of 10 and became a chunin at the age of 12.

If Kakashi became a Chunin at the age of six, Anko participated in that same Chunin exam at the age of four - six years before she became a genin.

lol

Gai is the same age as Kakashi. He became a Genin at the age of seven and a chunin at the age of 11. So what you're saying, is that Gai fought in the same Chunin exam Kakashi earned his promotion; although, he didn't graduate the academy until after Kakashi became a Chunin?

Try again. 


Even if I ignore all of that, there is still the small issue with Itachi:

Itachi was 17 years old at the start of part 1 (Naruto is 12).
During the Kyuubi attack, Itachi was five years old (Naruto is a new born).
Tobi said that Itachi experienced the Third Ninja War at the age of four, one year before the Kyuubi attack.

So obviously....


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## PikaCheeka (Aug 31, 2012)

Yuna said:


> This chapter also showed Minato's face as being on the Hokage Monument while Obito was still alive. Let's just say Kishimoto is a hack.
> 
> I think Team Minato were all the same age. In every single shot of them, they all look the exact same age. Or do you think Kakashi has *always* looked 4 years older than he really was? What about that photo of a really young Team Minato? What, Kakashi looked, like, 11 age at 7?




Kishi has always portrayed ages awkwardly but he has always made a very clear difference between "kid" and "little kid". Look at Konohamaru and his buddies. Then look at the genin in the university. They are drawn very differently.

I agree with you. Anyone who argues against you should consider what I said though.


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## Brigade (Aug 31, 2012)

If I was 5' at 6 yrs old and perfectly healthy, magical prodigy ninja can be too. (I'm 6'3" right now)


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## Yuna (Aug 31, 2012)

Arthas said:


> The fact that Orochimaru made such comment means that Sasuke must have not just been better but *a whole lot better* at the same age. In other words: 16 Year Old Sasuke >>>>> 16 Year Old Orochimaru.


No, that's 15 yearold Sasuke. A 15 yearold Sasuke with a Sharingan, which Orochimaru so coveted, so he's a little biased here.



Arthas said:


> Regarding Kakashi: Did I mention the fact that on the day he became Jounin the Yondaime said that the Military power of Konoha had dropped to all time low?
> 
> Gee I wonder why Konoha decided to make a 13 year old a jounin...


Exactly. Obito was over-promoted.



PikaCheeka said:


> Kishi has always portrayed ages awkwardly but he has always made a very clear difference between "kid" and "little kid". Look at Konohamaru and his buddies. Then look at the genin in the university. They are drawn very differently.
> 
> I agree with you. Anyone who argues against you should consider what I said though.


And for that I have the "Hayate Dilemma". Look at the page where we see all of Obito's classmates for the academy. They all entered the academy on the same day... including a *one year old* Hayate who looked roughly as old and tall as everyone else in his class.

We also see a 4 year old Anko and 2 year old Hayate fighting in the same Chuunin Exams as Team Minato. So, yeah. Kishi's a hack.


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## fralamp88 (Aug 31, 2012)

You are thinking too much over this, Kishi clearly has problems with his timeline. 
I think he meant Kakashi and Obito to be the same age, but then he fucked up by saying stuff about Kakashi changing ninja grade in different times then the other two. So math didn't add up, but I think he actually meant fot them to be the same age.


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## Olympian (Aug 31, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> Stop stressing over stats. Obito was the naruto version of that team, and he became much stronger later once he awakened his Sharingan, but his stats more or less do not represent the Sharingan Obito. It mostly represents the Obito that we saw constantly getting it handed to him by Gai in this chapter, and who would mess up so often and make excuses for why he messed up.
> 
> *Let's not act as if Naruto and Sasuke as genin weren't already stronger than some Chunin and even Jonin, because they were*.



For the most part, literally, no, they weren`t. 

As for the overall timeline argument, I think Kishi just wanted to throw a bone to fans and show the whole gang, but frankly while it`s cool to watch familiar faces, it makes no sense at all for Hayate or Anko to have been participating in the same exams that Kakashi and Asuma did. 

Even Kurenai. She is definatly younger than any of the other main sensei, but it`s hinted in the beginning of the manga she is new to the same Jonin rank that the other`s share. But there is that panel where she, Gai , Asuma, Rin and Obito are all wearing Chunnin jackets. Before the Kyuubi attack. 

So how long did she really took to be promoted, then?

Frankly, these details weren`t thought out, they are just there for the fans. It reminds me when Kurumada drew that panel in Saint Seiya where the current Gold generation were wearing the very same Gold armours...at 7 years of age, mostly shared between them. And of course, not even going with Aioros being one of the strongest Gold Saints of any generation at the rip age of 14 (the same year he died) despite being constantly drawn as if he was at least 17 to 19.

I appreciate those bones as any fan, but trying to make sense out of it it`s kinda contranatural.


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## Olympian (Aug 31, 2012)

Oh and Genma and Raido. Wheren`t they supposed to have been the bodyguards of the 4th when he was Hokage?


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## Edward Newgate (Aug 31, 2012)

Olympian said:


> Oh and Genma and Raido. Wheren`t they supposed to have been the bodyguards of the 4th when he was Hokage?


Good point, another mistake. Guarding the Hokage at the age of less than 13, they sure were powerful back then. I mean, look how strong they're now, surely they were even stronger at their prime!


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## hokage5522 (Aug 31, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> It's simply the best way, period. Kakashi was simply the younger, cockier genius of the genin trio. He was 4 years younger than both of his teammates, Obito and Rin.
> 
> He is a 9-10 year old Jonin during the events of the Kakashi Gaiden, and is a 13-14 year old Jonin during the Kyuubi's attack on Konoha. Kakashi is 26-27 years old in part one. It all fits perfectly. Just look at Naruto right now at the age of 16. This works easily.
> 
> Obito is 17-18 during the Kyuubi attack. He had a good 4 years to change drastically and train to become a significantly more powerful shinobi.



I think you called that one right. But its makes the rin feelings for kakashi thing just a bit creepy to me(age wise) maybe i am just a prude.


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## Thebaxman (Aug 31, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> I'm just laughing at how po'd this chapter has made people. When the arguments against what I'm saying are THIS weak, you know the argument is already won.



Nah you just stopped commenting because Yuna proved you wrong 100%.

You said yourself databook is canon. You are saying that 1 Year old Hayate is same height as 8 year old Obito and you're laughing and saying you've won?



YOU SUCK


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## phatpimpX4 (Sep 1, 2012)

Yuna said:


> What part of "Kakashi has always been roughly the same height and looked roughly the same age as Obito" was too Canadian French pour toi the first 12 times I said it?!
> 
> Every single time we've seen them together, from back when they first entered the academy to Obito's day of "death", they look like they're the same age.
> 
> This chapter retconned *the shit* out of several characters' ages.



The idea that Kakashi and Obito’s ages have been retconned is YOUR opinion. You can say it a million times to yourself, but it still doesn’t make it true.  You are basing your opinion that Kakashi and Obito are the same age just because they are the same height. Doing this is ignorant to the point of stupidity. This type of logic doesn’t even work in real life, why does it have to work in a Manga about magical ninjas that can change their appearance. 

There is so much more evidence that points to there being a gap in ages. Even if you choose to ignore the data books, Kakashi himself states in a manga chapter that he was 6 years old when he became a chuunin. 



Yuna said:


> So let's pretend that Kakashi and Obito weren't the same age. Let's say that everything we knew from before is true.
> 
> This means that Kakashi graduated from the academy at age 5 after having been enrolled in it for 1 year, which means that the Kakashi we saw in this flashback, despite looking the same age and being of roughly the same height as Obito was *fucking four years old*. So a *nine yearold* Obito and Rin were *fucking midgets* because they were roughly the same height and size as a *four year old* Kakashi.



You mean an 8 year old Obito and Rin not nine. Regardless, there was a 4 year difference. I don’t really see wtf the problem is.

Look at this CDC growth chart that measures the average height of kids.  

The average height of a 4 year old is 40 inches and the average height of an 8 year old is 50 inches. Looking at high and low percentiles. The tallest 4 year olds are 44 inches and the shortest 8 year olds are 46 inches. If Kakashi was a tall 4 year old and Obito and Rin were short 8 year olds it makes perfect sense in REALITY. Why can’t it make sense in a manga with magical fuckin PEOPLE. 

Are u seriously bitching about 2 fuckin inches?!?!?!



Yuna said:


> You know what else we know? Anko is 2 years younger than Kakashi and Hayate is 3 years younger, yet we *know* that at least Hayate was in the same class as Kakashi and Obito, which means that Hayate enrolled into the academy at the age of *fucking one*. That's one mighty big one yearold.
> 
> We later see Hayate and his team taking the Chunnin exam at the same time as Kakashi. Hayate and his Team battle Anko and her team. Kakashi became a Chuunin at age 6, which means that that's a 3 yearold Hayate fighting a 4 yearold Anko, yet they both look the same age as Obito. The what now?!



Now I’m goint to address the only reasonable argument you have. 

Simply put the problem with this Hayate and Anko argument is that you are making too many assumptions and jumping to conclusions too soon. 

Lets pretend that I’m Kishi for a second and take on your complaints.

Yuna: Kishi y the fuck is a 4 yr old Anko fighting in Kakashi’s first Chuunin Exam. According to databooks, she is not even Genin yet?!?!?!

Kishi: That is not Anko. That is a random girl in the chuunin exam that I drew to look like Anko because I like her character design. 

Yuna: Kishi y the fuck is a 3 yr old Hayate fighting in Kakashi’s first Chuunin Exam. According to databooks, he is not even Genin yet?!?!?!

Kishi: That is Hayate’s older brother. I made him to look like Hayate as an easter egg for his fans. Obviously last name is the same because oh shit they are brothers.

Look at that, with some minor logic, everything makes sense again. 

Even if Kishi decided that he made a mistake with the Anko lookalike and Hayate, he can just retconn their ages by a few years and everything is normal again. 

My point is that this has NOTHING TO DO WITH KAKASHI AND OBITO’s AGES which is the main point of the OP. You can’t take some bullshit about some minor characters like Anko and Hayate and try to overturn some already established information about a main character like Kakashi.


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## Yuna (Sep 1, 2012)

phatpimpX4 said:


> The idea that Kakashi and Obito?s ages have been retconned is YOUR opinion. You can say it a million times to yourself, but it still doesn?t make it true.


I'm speculating, but so are you. Why am I a bad guy, while you aren't?



phatpimpX4 said:


> You are basing your opinion that Kakashi and Obito are the same age just because they are the same height. Doing this is ignorant to the point of stupidity.


I don't think you know that "ignorant" really means.



phatpimpX4 said:


> This type of logic doesn?t even work in real life, why does it have to work in a Manga about magical ninjas that can change their appearance.


This would be valid if a *four year old Kakashi* wasn't roughly the exact same height and size as allegedly *eight year old* Obito and Rin. Show me pictures of any four year olds who can be that tall.



phatpimpX4 said:


> There is so much more evidence that points to there being a gap in ages.


Such as?



phatpimpX4 said:


> You mean an 8 year old Obito and Rin not nine. Regardless, there was a 4 year difference. I don?t really see wtf the problem is.


Yes, I misspoke.



phatpimpX4 said:


> The average height of a 4 year old is 40 inches and the average height of an 8 year old is 50 inches.


Congratulations on failing to read the chart properly. Or to simply lying through your teeth. According to your own chart, the average height of a 4 yearold in the U.S. is 41 inches while the average height of an 8 year old is *55 inches*. That's a *14 inch* difference.

Also, *again*, they weren't just roughly the same height at random points in time, they *always* been roughly the same height!



phatpimpX4 said:


> Looking at high and low percentiles. The tallest 4 year olds are 44 inches and the shortest 8 year olds are 46 inches.


And how common is that? Quite uncommon. Also, ignoring that, your facial structure is not the same at 4 as at 8.



phatpimpX4 said:


> Yuna: Kishi y the fuck is a 4 yr old Anko fighting in Kakashi?s first Chuunin Exam. According to databooks, she is not even Genin yet?!?!?!


I didn't even bring up the "She's not even a Genin yet" argument.



phatpimpX4 said:


> Kishi: That is not Anko. That is a random girl in the chuunin exam that I drew to look like Anko because I like her character design.


Desperate asspull. Then what happened to her? Did she die?



phatpimpX4 said:


> Kishi: That is Hayate?s older brother. I made him to look like Hayate as an easter egg for his fans. Obviously last name is the same because oh shit they are brothers.


Again, did he die?



phatpimpX4 said:


> Look at that, with some minor logic, everything makes sense again.


Asspull logic, more like.



phatpimpX4 said:


> Even if Kishi decided that he made a mistake with the Anko lookalike and Hayate, he can just retconn their ages by a few years and everything is normal again.


And here we arrive at your downfall. If he's retconning Anko's and Hayate's ages, why can't he be retconning Kakashi's, Obito's and Rin's ages?



phatpimpX4 said:


> My point is that this has NOTHING TO DO WITH KAKASHI AND OBITO?s AGES


Why? You have no problems speculating that Kishimoto is retconning Anko's and Hayate's ages, yet it's impossible for Kishi to be retconning Team Minato's ages?



phatpimpX4 said:


> You can?t take some bullshit about some minor characters like Anko and Hayate and try to overturn some already established information about a main character like Kakashi.


Why the Hell not?


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## TheMaskedMan (Sep 1, 2012)

Naruto part one: kakashi age 27

Naruto part one: Naruto age 13

27-13= 14 

So if kakashi was 14 during Tobi VS Minato which happened a year later after the Kannabi bridge then this tells us Kakshi was 13!!!!


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## NoSleep (Sep 1, 2012)

Yuna is raping the shit out of everyone who thinks that Obito is 4, or what ever, years older than Kakashi.


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## Olympian (Sep 1, 2012)

Edward Newgate said:


> Good point, another mistake. Guarding the Hokage at the age of less than 13, they sure were powerful back then. I mean, look how strong they're now, surely they were even stronger at their prime!



That face in the mountain has got to go. I can accept Genma and Raido as bodyguards in training until Minato passed away. Kakashi and the others (Kun, Asuma and Gai) were clearly already teenagers when Minato died, so Genma and Raido being in training at the same age is acceptable. 

But damn, they would still be young. 

And people were crossing hairs at the current generation. The previous one was insane, look at them prodigies. Even Aoba is there. 

By the way, I love the shit out of Raido and Genma as well as Kotetsu and Izumo (at least those two weren`t there..), I think they are definatly above your average Jonin at this point, generally speaking, after what we have seen of them. They are the second wave after the Masters, discounting the Kages. 

Oh, want to see another one? It`s pretty much hinted that Kurenai was the youngest *addition* among the "Elite" according to Asuma himself in the beginning of the manga (which is also weird...Minato dies 12 years before that) and when both he and Kakashi were talking about the exams and were aware that Ibiki ("dat sadist") was the one making the following exam, Kurenai actually asks about him. And yet here, he was also among the same academy/exams generation.


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## hitokugutsu (Sep 1, 2012)

Every poster here pretty much destroyed OP's fail argument 

Lets just all agree that Kishi doesnt give a darn about time-lines no more and just want to tell a story


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## Yuna (Sep 1, 2012)

NoSleep said:


> Yuna is raping the shit out of everyone who thinks that Obito is 4, or what ever, years older than Kakashi.


Raping the shit out of bad arguments, it's what I do.

And whoa. I've had people's reps go from 1 green dot to 4 red dots before after I negged them. This must be the first time my neg ever resulted in someone's rep going from 4 green dots to 8 green dots!


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## sole (Sep 1, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> I'm just laughing at how po'd this chapter has made people. When the arguments against what I'm saying are THIS weak, you know the argument is already won.



Are you really this obtuse or are you just a troll?


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## Yuna (Sep 1, 2012)

sole said:


> Are you really this obtuse or are you just a troll?


Why can't he be both?


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## Addy (Sep 1, 2012)

if i get this correctly, kakashi is 9 when he became a chunin? and rin too is the same age as obito (because kakashi is a "special" case and became genin at a young age). stop me here if i am wrong and correct me because the following is based on this understanding.

Chapter 501


for a 9 year old, kakashi is sure higher than rin  who is progressing at the same rate as obito 

and obito is almost the same height as kakashi here

Chapter 501

we know how kishi draws 9 year olds compered to 13 year olds (see hanabi/konohameru/naurto for reference).

also, a 13 year old rin having a crush over a 9 year old kakashi is................. odd.


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## Ezekial (Sep 1, 2012)

SageEnergyMode said:


> What PROOF do you have that Kakashi was 13? Maybe you and other people need to stop making shit up.


 Me stop making shit up? You're the one making shit up the fact is Obito died at 13 the same day or few days lafter after Kakashi became Jounin, So considering all team members are the same age Kakashi was 13 when Obito died and 14-15 during the invasion as was Obito.

Stop stating your opinion as fact then getting mad when someone disputes it.


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## Yagami Light (Sep 2, 2012)

Kakashi being 9 is the only way the timeline makes sense. It's fact that Kakashi was 13 during the Kyuubi attack, so if Kakashi was 13 during the gaiden, then the gaiden would be only 3 weeks before the Kyuubi attack. If Kakashi was 13 during the gaiden, then it takes place between September 15(Kakashi's birthday) and October 10(Naruto's birthday and Kyuubi attack). If you say Kakashi was 13 during the gaiden, You're also saying in 3 and a half weeks,Obito managed to awaken a 2 tomoe sharingan and gain mastery of his mangekyou, Kakashi had a massive growth spurt, Minato became Hokage, Kushina gave birth and Minato's face was put in the mountain and should kill yourself. Its also highly unlikely that Minato would be sent on a mission  so close to Kurama's Jinchuuriki's giving birth since she was 10 months and could go into labor at any time


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## Yuna (Sep 2, 2012)

Novafire said:


> Kakashi being 9 is the only way the timeline makes sense.* It's fact that Kakashi was 13 during the Kyuubi attack*...


Since when?


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## Impact (Sep 2, 2012)

There is so much win in this thread I don't even


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