# Admirals vs Yonkou - The Final Number



## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

Just putting this here to make it clear as day.

What is the final tally for Yonkous vs Admirals. Equal? Yonkous favor? Admirals favor?

I just want to hear it. After this showing.


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## convict (Aug 7, 2020)

In general equal. The weakest admiral, lets say is Fujitora, but I can see him being about equal to current Blackbeard. I see Akainu as equal to Shanks. Kaido and Whitebeard a bit stronger than that but honestly we should be putting Garp as an admiral because he basically got the position, he just chose not to for political reasons. In the modern era, the Yonkou are a bit stronger on average, but there is definitely overlap.

And as in real-life politics, as someone truly ambivalent and neutral in this fight, I suspect everyone else disagrees with me.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

convict said:


> In general equal. The weakest admiral, lets say is Fujitora, but I can see him being about equal to current Blackbeard. I see Akainu as equal to Shanks. Kaido and Whitebeard a bit stronger than that but honestly we should be putting Garp as an admiral because he basically got the position, he just chose not to for political reasons. In the modern era, the Yonkou are a bit stronger on average I would say, but there is definitely overlap.


Where do you get the "A bit stronger" from. Kaido just got hit from some "so-called" fodder, most would say. It he, who is considered "invincible" can be pierced by the "so-called" fodder. That would mean that Admirals would be able to do much more lethal damage to him. They should be handily on par with them, no "a bit" stronger to it in my eyes.


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## Canute87 (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Where do you get the "A bit stronger" from. Kaido just got hit from some "so-called" fodder, most would say. It he, who is considered "invincible" can be pierced by the "so-called" fodder. That would mean that Admirals would be able to do much more lethal damage to him. They should be handily on par with them, no "a bit" stronger to it in my eyes.



Oden's samurai held off kaido's entire army 20 years ago.
I'll never get how they can be considered fodder.

But from the time oden fucked him everyone knew the admirals could do the same.


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> Oden's samurai held off kaido's entire army 20 years ago.
> I'll never get how they can be considered fodder.
> 
> But from the time oden fucked him everyone knew the admirals could do the same.


People were calling them fodder in our threads, remember those? That they wouldn't be able to do anything to Kaido, that Luffy would be the only one to be able to hurt Kaido? Those were the not too long ago, good ol' days.

And no, they didn't.


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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

Yonko > Admirals.


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

Kylo Ren said:


> Yonko > Admirals.


Beautiful. So. The Scabbards are now stronger than the Admirals. The Scabbards could have fought against Old Whitebeard.


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## Fujitora (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Where do you get the "A bit stronger" from. Kaido just got hit from some "so-called" fodder, most would say. It he, who is considered "invincible" can be pierced by the "so-called" fodder. That would mean that Admirals would be able to do much more lethal damage to him. They should be handily on par with them, no "a bit" stronger to it in my eyes.


4 or 5 of them are yc lvl and rest are strong fighters and all of their concentrated combined all out attack managed to do a bit more than what jozu alone,another yc did to aokiji in one hit.
Oh and by the end of chapter dude was healed up.
Also he was drunk that entire time.
Hence, a bit stronger, until proven otherwise he is still in the same general lvl and its still very high extreme diff.


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## Canute87 (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> People were calling them fodder in our threads, remember those? That they wouldn't be able to do anything to Kaido, that Luffy would be the only one to be able to hurt Kaido? Those were the not too long ago, good ol' days.
> 
> And no, they didn't.



I remember before the oden cut people (including myself)  were questioning if Akainu could damage him.  I didn't think people still held that belief even after oden showed them kaido's hype never applied to the top tiers.

But you are blowing this out of proportion.  They BARELY  pierced his flesh after putting their all into it a few centimetres of their sword. Oden did a whole different league of damage.


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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Beautiful. So. The Scabbards are now stronger than the Admirals. The Scabbards could have fought against Old Whitebeard.


I never said they're. 

But put them in Kaido shoes rn Kaido will have superior showing xompare to Admirals.

WB recieve that same attack he is in great danger while Kaido recieve minimum damage.


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## Shanks (Aug 7, 2020)

WB, Big Mom, Kaido, BB, Shanks high dif C3, Fuji and Greenbull.


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## Fujitora (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> People were calling them fodder in our threads, remember those? That they wouldn't be able to do anything to Kaido, that Luffy would be the only one to be able to hurt Kaido? Those were the not too long ago, good ol' days.
> 
> And no, they didn't.


So you generalize everyone and use randoms opinions to therefore surmize the actual powerlevel of the scabbards? Of whom 2 luffy was praising as super strong
(neko/ino) who are in jacks general lvl and with sulong probably above, just look at carro pre and post sulong as a reference.
Then ashura who is yc too, then denjiro, then izo and then other strong fighters with them after that. I wanna understand your logic my friend.
Also, it ended with kaido being against the entire mink tribe who is going sulong and the scabbards. If he wins this, it will be the greatest feat in this manga. A litteral one man army.


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> 4 or 5 of them are yc lvl and rest are strong fighters and all of their concentrated combined all out attack managed to do a bit more than what jozu alone,another yc did to aokiji in one hit.
> Oh and by the end of chapter dude was healed up.
> Also he was drunk that entire time.
> Hence, a bit stronger, until proven otherwise he is still in the same general lvl and its still very high extreme diff.


Never said he wouldn't be a difficult fight. But if you're taking away the fact that they managed to pierce his so-called "Invulnerable body". You're not reading what I'm reading. It doesn't matter that he was healed. The Admirals would do worse to Kaido. The Admirals are superior to the Scabbards because they have actual feats that show such things. Not just rumors and speculation.



Canute87 said:


> I remember before the oden cut people (including myself)  were questioning if Akainu could damage him.  I didn't think people still held that belief even after oden showed them kaido's hype never applied to the top tiers.


You're seeing it in this thread right now, despite the clear evidence, they still believe this. 



Sabo said:


> WB, Big Mom, Kaido, BB, Shanks high dif C3, Fuji and Greenbull.


Evidence?



OniKaido said:


> So you generalize everyone and use randoms opinions to therefore surmize the actual powerlevel of the scabbards? Of whom 2 luffy was praising as super strong
> (neko/ino) who are in jacks general lvl and with sulong probably above, just look at carro pre and post sulong as a reference.
> Then ashura who is yc too, then denjiro, then izo and then other strong fighters with them after that. I wanna understand your logic my friend.
> Also, it ended with kaido being against the entire mink tribe who is going sulong and the scabbards. If he wins this, it will be the greatest feat in this manga. A litteral one man army.


Super Strong means Admiral level now...


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## Thenewguysnm1 (Aug 7, 2020)

Yonkos win, this latest chapter is just massive PIS. Alot like luffy surviving marineford.

Yonkos rule the seas.

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## A Optimistic (Aug 7, 2020)

Kaido was drunk and off-guard when the Scabbards jumped him. Now he’s sober snd on guard. The next few chapters will settle the Admiral vs Yonko debate once and for all. We’ll see how Kaido performs.

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## Canute87 (Aug 7, 2020)

A Optimistic said:


> Kaido was drunk and off-guard when the Scabbards jumped him. Now he’s sober snd on guard. *The next few chapters will settle the Admiral vs Yonko debate once and for all.* We’ll see how Kaido performs.



The debate will never be settled until we see kaidou / Big Mom against one of those guys.

We still don't know why Marco and Vista's haki attack didn't do much to akainu even though they are clearly stronger than the scabbards.

The scabbards were clearly focused and determined damn near almost killed themselves to get that cut while marco and josu had just witnessed ace's death.


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

Thenewguysnm1 said:


> Yonkos win, this latest chapter is just massive PIS. Alot like luffy surviving marineford.
> 
> Yonkos rule the seas.


PIS would mean that it could never happen. Luffy's not special and people hate to admit he's not.



A Optimistic said:


> Kaido was drunk and off-guard when the Scabbards jumped him. Now he’s sober snd on guard. The next few chapters will settle the Admiral vs Yonko debate once and for all. We’ll see how Kaido performs.


So now being drunk affects the hardness of Kaido's body... Ya'll giving some interesting rules for these characters.



Canute87 said:


> The debate will never be settled until we see kaidou / Big Mom against one of those guys.
> 
> We still don't know why Marco and Vista's haki attack didn't do much to akainu.
> 
> The scabbards were clearly focused and determined damn near almost killed themselves to get that cut while marco and josu had just witnessed ace's death.



Weaker characters just pierced Kaido's scales.


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## Fujitora (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Never said he wouldn't be a difficult fight. But if you're taking away the fact that they managed to pierce his so-called "Invulnerable body". You're not reading what I'm reading. It doesn't matter that he was healed. The Admirals would do worse to Kaido. The Admirals are superior to the Scabbards because they have actual feats that show such things. Not just rumors and speculation.
> 
> 
> You're seeing it in this thread right now, despite the clear evidence, they still believe this.
> ...


His body is not invulnerable as oden has shown and as luffy is training to do and as zoro is training to do and law with gamma knife,etc
Bring me the pannel saying he is invulnerable instead of unkillable, if you cant. Drop this argument because it is moot.


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## Canute87 (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> PIS would mean that it could never happen. Luffy's not special and people hate to admit he's not.
> 
> 
> So now being drunk affects the hardness of Kaido's body... Ya'll giving some interesting rules for these characters.
> ...



Yeah they made him bleed,  Stronger characters gave him a scar that has been mind fucking him for twenty years.

I've always expressed that they're are clear gaps between certain things and this black and white notion that  you either can fuck kaidou up or you don't is seriously flawed.  There are "in betweens". In this case barely piercing the surface. They just  put in a crazy amount of effort to do that,  to achieve that little feat.

And with that sulong coming inu and neku are going into admiral top tier territory.


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## JustSumGuy (Aug 7, 2020)

Akainu will be stronger than Kaido when it’s all said and done.

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## A Optimistic (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> PIS would mean that it could never happen. Luffy's not special and people hate to admit he's not.
> 
> 
> So now being drunk affects the hardness of Kaido's body... Ya'll giving some interesting rules for these characters.
> ...



Never said being drunk affects the hardness of his body, please don’t put words in my mouth.

But we know for a fact he fights a lot worse when he’s drunk. We literally saw a drunk Kaido getting pummelled by a Gear 3rd Luffy and a sober Kaido one shot a Gear 4th Luffy.

I also don’t get what your fascination with Kaido being wounded even is. Is it to prove that the Admirals can also injure him? Nobody is denying that, the Colour Trio have the most impressive offensive fruits in the series.

The Admirals can hurt Kaido and Kaido can hurt the Admirals. Anything more then that then wait to see how Kaido performs next chapter.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 7, 2020)

Chapter literally ends with Kaido about to fight the entire Mink civilization in Sulong mode and the Scabbards and you actually think he got de-hyped?


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> His body is not invulnerable as oden has shown and as luffy is training to do and as zoro is training to do and law with gamma knife,etc
> Bring me the pannel saying he is invulnerable instead of unkillable, if you cant. Drop this argument because it is moot.


Don't tell me that. Tell the people that stated Kaido's body was supposedly invincible. I'm just relaying it as Invulnerable because supposedly they thought he was stronger than he actually was. And I'll say it as many times as I want, because we've seen Oden almost kill Kaido. So obviously, he's not unkillable.



Canute87 said:


> Yeah they made him bleed,  Stronger characters gave him a scar that has been mind fucking him for twenty years.
> 
> I've always expressed that they're are clear gaps between certain things and this black and white notion that  you either can fuck kaidou up or you don't is seriously flawed.  There are "in betweens". In this case barely piercing the surface. They just  put in a crazy amount of effort to do that,  to achieve that little feat.
> 
> And with that sulong coming inu and neku are going into top tier territory.


And Admirals would be able to put less effort and more effectiveness. That's about all I'm saying.



JustSumGuy said:


> Akainu will be stronger than Kaido when it’s all said and done.


I don't think this either, I think it'll be a knockdown dragout as it should be. Because Yonkou should be on par with Admirals. And no one sems to be able to prove that Admirals are weaker.



A Optimistic said:


> Never said being drunk affects the hardness of his body, please don’t put words in my mouth.
> 
> But we know for a fact he fights a lot worse when he’s drunk. We literally saw a drunk Kaido getting pummelled by a Gear 3rd Luffy and a sober Kaido one shot a Gear 4th Luffy.
> 
> ...


Then why did you try to use him being drunk as an effective means of strengthening how strong he is. Kaidou's drunk off his ass most of the time, didn't stop him from completely obliterating a mountain nor did it stop him from taking full barrage attacks from a bloodlusted Luffy.

Luffy couldn't pierce his scales though, supposedly, the Scabbards are weaker than G3 Luffy and especially G4 even at that time. 

Because people think the Admirals are weaker than them, despite that. 

It won't matter, the Admirals should be equally just as impressive. People don't understand that. Just because you're seeing more feats for Kaidou next chapter, doesn't mean the Admirals will be weaker as we didn't see their full deck either, it was even alluded to with Punk Hazard.

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## Fujitora (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Don't tell me that. Tell the people that stated Kaido's body was supposedly invincible. I'm just relaying it as Invulnerable because supposedly they thought he was stronger than he actually was. And I'll say it as many times as I want, because we've seen Oden almost kill Kaido. So obviously, he's not unkillable.
> 
> 
> And Admirals would be able to put less effort and more effectiveness. That's about all I'm saying.
> ...


Where did it say he was about to kill him lol? How would you know he was about to? Are you a prophet? 
Oden was running at him saying never come back to wano btw, is that something to say to someone youre about to kill?


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## Veggie (Aug 7, 2020)

I'm behind at like 60 chapters but I'm always here to represent that Admiral gang

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## A Optimistic (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Don't tell me that. Tell the people that stated Kaido's body was supposedly invincible. I'm just relaying it as Invulnerable because supposedly they thought he was stronger than he actually was. And I'll say it as many times as I want, because we've seen Oden almost kill Kaido. So obviously, he's not unkillable.
> 
> 
> And Admirals would be able to put less effort and more effectiveness. That's about all I'm saying.
> ...



I think it should be fairly clear why I brought up drunk Kaido bro. Kaido when he was drunk wasn’t able to land a single blow on Luffy and you know it, it’s pretty clear that he’s in an inferior state while drunk. The second he sobered up he gave Luffy the same blitz that France suffered during WW2.

I also never said anything about Admirals being weaker, didn’t I even say that the Admiral’s devil fruits are lethal enough to injure Kaido since they are so offensively powerful? I didn’t really say anything negative about the Admirals lol.

As for why I said to wait for Kaido’s performance. Because Kaido could get his ass kicked, which means he’s weaker than we thought. He could destroy them all, so he’s stronger then we thought. Ect ect.

We don’t know how the battle will go. Why is waiting until the next chapter such an unreasonable request?


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## FakeTaxi1738 (Aug 7, 2020)

Admirals =Yonko  Overall.. but the strongest right now is Akainu

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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

I think Gomu taking out his fustration from other poster with you guys lol



FakeTaxi1738 said:


> Admirals =Yonko  Overall.. but the strongest right now is Akainu


People in verse never even think like that meanwhile Kaido have that reputation.

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## JustSumGuy (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> I don't think this either, I think it'll be a knockdown dragout as it should be. Because Yonkou should be on par with Admirals. And no one sems to be able to prove that Admirals are weaker.



I was kinda half-kidding there but it’s definitely not something unlikely especially for someone as hyped as Akainu is. After this arc we’ll likely be in the final saga of One Piece and a couple of top tiers are gonna start revealing how strong they really are which might bring into question our pre-conceived notions of who the strongest person was. But for now, Oda wants us to believe the current antagonist is the strongest cause it makes for dramatic storytelling.

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## FakeTaxi1738 (Aug 7, 2020)

Kylo Ren said:


> People in verse never even think like that meanwhile Kaido have that reputation.


Dont really matter to me what reputation kaido has. Hes weaker than Akainu


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## B Rabbit (Aug 7, 2020)

Admiral=Yonkou to me.

Thats why I don't get butthurt like you guys. Who for some reason want to believe one tier is higher than the other.

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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> You're really just going to throw away the fact that weaker characters just hurt Kaido then and just continue. But I'm the one frustrated. Stay delusional.


It's a joke. Take a breath bro. Why so emotional? Its just a banter lol

It seems to me you never understand how Kaido can be injured. G4 Luffy stronger than anybody there cannot injured Kaido but an advanced coa can. Even if you're weaker as long as you know the advanced coa you can hurt Kaido. This chapter confirmed it at very least.

Admirals without any defense place on kaido shoes they recieve more damage. 

Its his base(normal skin) he never even try to defend. Imagine if he did. BM with said inpregnable skin still putting haki cause thats the way it should be. KAIDO on the orher hand gets too comfortable with his natural defense that he thought they never penetrate it.

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## xmysticgohanx (Aug 7, 2020)

Yonko = Admirals 
Kaido is at the top


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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

B Rabbit said:


> Admiral=Yonkou to me.
> 
> Thats why I don't get butthurt like you guys. Who for some reason want to believe one tier is higher than the other.


I think even if someone have different opinion than others it should be okay but yeah this is OL. Everyone wants to prove they're better than their opposition.


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> I’m sorry I didn’t mean that kaido couldn’t land a single blow, I meant that he just stood there and took the hits, he said he was drunk. I’m assuming his reflexes aren’t the same as it would go well with real life too.
> 
> No worries I get your problem with some people, go get them!
> 
> ...


More than likely he didn't feel what Luffy was doing, hence why he was screaming in pain for the Scabbards and not Luffy.

Cool. I'll only be here for a day though so...

He was knocked out, woke up and threw a strike. For example his eyes were white in the panel showing him getting attack and writhing in pain. I don't want to speculate.



FakeTaxi1738 said:


> Dont really matter to me what reputation kaido has. Hes weaker than Akainu


You'd have to prove that as well. As far as I'm concerned, even after death, Whitebeard is still the strongest character in the Great Age of Piracy until proven otherwise.



A Optimistic said:


> Kaido did attack luffy while drunk, he shot a boro breath/energy beam or something at luffy and luffy dodged while holding that horse headliner if i remember correctly but cant check cuz on mobile and going to bed
> 
> and yes if the scabbards can injure kaido then the admirals can as well, no disagreements there.
> 
> ...


Luffy's best traits are his speed post time skip. Even Doflamingo states this and has trouble keeping up with Luffy using G2. 

Cool.

That's why I say they're equal. They can both defeat one another.

Yes they will.

We don't disagree at all.



Kylo Ren said:


> It's a joke. Take a breath bro. Why so emotional? Its just a banter lol
> 
> It seems to me you never understand how Kaido can be injured. G4 Luffy stronger than anybody there cannot injured Kaido but an advanced coa can. Even if you're weaker as long as you know the advanced coa you can hurt Kaido. This chapter confirmed it at very least.
> 
> ...


Don't use that it's a joke shit on me, please. The way you acted towards me is not forgotten.

I remember you or someone saying he couldn't be injured without Luffy's Internal Destruction haki... hm...

You'd need to prove that as they blocked a shockwave from one of the strongest characters in the series effortlessly.

Doesn't matter. He had the most durable skin, he couldn't be pierced by any torture devices and the first thing that happens when he shows up is falling 10,000 meters from the sky in base.



xmysticgohanx said:


> Yonko = Admirals
> Kaido is at the top


Why is he at the top?


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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Yonko = Admirals
> Kaido is at the top


Then its not equal if someone is above than the rest even if its a lil bit, right?


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## Fujitora (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> More than likely he didn't feel what Luffy was doing, hence why he was screaming in pain for the Scabbards and not Luffy.
> 
> Cool. I'll only be here for a day though so...
> 
> ...


The wound that oden gave him made him scream bro but let’s agree to disagree.

He had white eyes too when luffy g3 hit him was he knocked out then too? 
The white eyes was to show extreme pain, it’s been done before in manga. He was knocked down, not out. The burden of proof is on you. But you said you don’t want to speculate so I’ll respect that
Anyhow going to sleep


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## FakeTaxi1738 (Aug 7, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> You cannot prove that


Yes I can


Gomu said:


> You'd have to prove that as well. As far as I'm concerned, even after death, Whitebeard is still the strongest character in the Great Age of Piracy until proven otherwise.


??? I'm talking about current characters, alive characters


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

FakeTaxi1738 said:


> Yes I can
> 
> ??? I'm talking about current characters, alive characters


That would mean they were equal then. Unless otherwise shown. To my knowledge, the Admirals have the best feats, but the Yonkou like Shanks have stopped wars from continuing and has fought on par with Kaido several times, and clashed with WB (who again is the strongest in the GAoP Era). WB was giving everyone a run for their money.


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## Fujitora (Aug 7, 2020)

FakeTaxi1738 said:


> Yes I can
> 
> ??? I'm talking about current characters, alive characters


Ok so it , boasting that you can while not doing it is the proof of a feeble mind only influenced by what he sees and short term memory. by all means show me how akainu is stronger than kaido.


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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Don't use that it's a joke shit on me, please. The way you acted towards me is not forgotten.
> 
> I remember you or someone saying he couldn't be injured without Luffy's Internal Destruction haki... hm...
> 
> ...


So I been living rent free in your head? Lmao.
Because saying burgess = to katakuri is outright ridiculous and exposing you how to pick your argument to suit your narrative? I really did a number on you then if you still butthurt about that. You need to move on.

I said it? Prove it. Even if I did currently when we debating about those. Its what Oda trying to sell to us. I thought you believe Oda more than anyone?

So they made an effort to defend?

Oda made it that he cant hurt even if by jumping 10k and as the story progress Oda made advanced coa to counter that and we didnt even know about that back then.

For the record I have nothing against you. You should have fun instead of being salty. This is a kid manga in an online forum for godsake well unless you're snowflake I kinda get it.

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## Dark Knight (Aug 7, 2020)

A Optimistic said:


> Chapter literally ends with Kaido about to fight the entire Mink civilization in Sulong mode and the Scabbards and you actually think he got de-hyped?


Pretty much this. I would wait to see the outcome of this showdown before propagating this yonko=admirals talk because if kaido actually soloes these lot...


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## FakeTaxi1738 (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> That would mean they were equal then. Unless otherwise shown. To my knowledge, the Admirals have the best feats, but the Yonkou like Shanks have stopped wars from continuing and has fought on par with Kaido several times, and clashed with WB (who again is the strongest in the GAoP Era). WB was giving everyone a run for their money.


No that doesnt mean they were equal ... thats not how I see it.. put it like this.. right now lets say Lebron is the best player in the nba, if he retires Kawhi Leonard would be the best rn.. and they werent equal. IDK if you get it.



OniKaido said:


> Ok so it , boasting that you can while not doing it is the proof of a feeble mind only influenced by what he sees and short term memory. by all means show me how akainu is stronger than kaido.


Imma make it quick fimir you Akainu got better feats than Kaido and better abilities imo and plot wise he is  one of the last villain luffy will face maybe even the last and you know how shonen works


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## Fujitora (Aug 7, 2020)

FakeTaxi1738 said:


> No that doesnt mean they were equal ... thats not how I see it.. put it like this.. right now lets say Lebron is the best player in the nba, if he retires Kawhi Leonard would be the best rn.. and they werent equal. IDK if you get it.
> 
> 
> Imma make it quick fimir you Akainu got better feats than Kaido and better abilities imo and plot wise he is  one of the last villain luffy will face maybe even the last and you know how shonen works


So this is subjective then?
If kaido falls to a group and luffy solos(if it’s him) akainu, how does that detract from the former exactly?
And yes I know how Shōnen works but this is one piece. Enel was stronger than most pre skip.
Magellan would low diff hody Jones abd cesar and give a though fight to doffy or perhaps even win.
How exacly using oh it’s Shōnen work when one piece provides multiple times that it’s not following a lineal powerscale.
Also I do believe there is a plateau in one piece and oda showed it with yonko/admirals since the beginning. Defeating a yonko and then fighting an admiral later doesn’t mean they are stronger cause they case after, they are in the same realm. So it all comes down to matchups and abilities

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## FakeTaxi1738 (Aug 7, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> So this is subjective then?
> If kaido falls to a group and luffy solos(if it’s him) akainu, how does that detract from the former exactly?
> And yes I know how Shōnen works but this is one piece. Enel was stronger than most pre skip.
> Magellan would low diff hody Jones abd cesar and give a though fight to doffy or perhaps even win.
> ...


 I dont think Kaido is falling to a group, luffy will beat him and ofc they will  both be injured before fighting each other. And I'll say it again Akainus abilities and feats> Kaidos


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## Breadman (Aug 7, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> The debate will never be settled until we see kaidou / Big Mom against one of those guys.
> 
> *We still don't know why Marco and Vista's haki attack didn't do much to akainu even though they are clearly stronger than the scabbards.*
> 
> The scabbards were clearly focused and determined damn near almost killed themselves to get that cut while marco and josu had just witnessed ace's death.



Because plot, but also because cool moment.

Oda wanted to make them look cool, but he couldn't actually do serious harm to Akainu because he needed him to be around for later.


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## Dellinger (Aug 7, 2020)

Oda himself put Kaido over Akainu. What you yourself say is irrelevant. 

Doflamingo shit himself at the mere thought of Kaido coming at him, he didn't give 2 shits about Kuzan and Fujitora.

Hawkins' numbers clearly favored Kaido over Kizaru. He literally had zero in all while it wasn't the case with Kizaru.

And so forth and so on.


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## B Rabbit (Aug 7, 2020)

He didn't give two shits on the Admirals because they know his celestial dragon ties. 

Kaidou doesn't care.


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## Dellinger (Aug 7, 2020)

B Rabbit said:


> He didn't give two shits on the Admirals because they know his celestial dragon ties.
> 
> Kaidou doesn't care.



Kuzan isn't an Admiral. 

Doflamingo said he also had chances to deal with Fujitora. Don't remember him saying that for Kaido.


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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

B Rabbit said:


> He didn't give two shits on the Admirals because they know his celestial dragon ties.
> 
> Kaidou doesn't care.


Iirc Doffy said to his crew that he is planning and thinking that they can beat Fujitora if they're all gang up on him. It maybe delusional of him but the thought of he may have chance while on Kaido its seems impossible.

Edit: got ninja'd


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## B Rabbit (Aug 7, 2020)

Yet Doflamingo ran away from Aokiji when Aokiji gave him a quick warning shot and Buffalo said Doffy almost died.

Doflamingo though Pica could beat Fujitora.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 7, 2020)

Kaido hasnt even started fighting the sulong minks and the admiral vs yonko war has already begun



OL is gonna explode after the next chapter is released


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## Dellinger (Aug 7, 2020)

B Rabbit said:


> Yet Doflamingo ran away from Aokiji when Aokiji gave him a quick warning shot and Buffalo said Doffy almost died.
> 
> Doflamingo though Pica could beat Fujitora.



Doflamingo outright ignored Aokiji. Meanwhile as I said, the mere thought of Kaido had him piss his pants.


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## B Rabbit (Aug 7, 2020)

Doflamingo didn't ignore Aokiji.

Arrogance is not an indication of strength. Doflamingo got the offer to throw hands with Aokiji. And wasn't about that life.


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## Corax (Aug 7, 2020)

Currently equal,but as plot demands EOS villains/opponents to be stronger they will end up stronger. Impossible to be otherwise for shonen manga with a growing power curve.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Aug 7, 2020)

Who cares? All that matters is that Linlin reigns supreme 

Seriously though... Let Oden or the Scabbards bum rush any of the Admirals when they're not using haki and I bet you that Oden decapitates them and the scabbards put them in permanent wheel chairs. There are levels to this. Just because you can hurt a guy doesn't mean you're going to win.

You can sure as hell hurt Mike Tyson but that doesn't guarantee that he isn't knocking you out.

I would temper expectations for anyone hoping to use this to dehype Kaido. By all reasonable expectations, Kaido is about to Solo the 9 scabbards and all the Minks while Sulong is active. If and (likely when) that happens, avoid jumping to early conclusions like this thread because Kaido wank will jump into solar system levels. @Fel1x  is just bidding his time until this happens... Then you will see pain


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## Dellinger (Aug 7, 2020)

B Rabbit said:


> Doflamingo didn't ignore Aokiji.
> 
> Arrogance is not an indication of strength. Doflamingo got the offer to throw hands with Aokiji. And wasn't about that life.


Aokiji warned Doflamingo about Smoker yet Doffy still attacked. So yes he ignored him.

Reactions: Like 1


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## B Rabbit (Aug 7, 2020)

Then when Aokiji gave him that smoke what did Doflamingo do?

Answer that before you do anything else.


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## GrizzlyClaws (Aug 7, 2020)

In the Aokiji/Doflamingo scene I always thought Doflamingo was just hiding behind his CD status. Eventhough Aokiji was no Admiral anymore and not legally bound to let him go, I think it was clear DD knew he is still a man of justice and doesn't just go around murking people and he was taking his chances betting on Aokiji just bluffing. His warning shot made him reconsider.

I don't view this scene as an argument against Admirals.

If you want to argue that better use the Fujitora thing.

Reactions: Like 2


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## B Rabbit (Aug 7, 2020)

You saw it that way because it was meant to be seen that way.

The problem with most of you guys. Is that characters personalities have to come to play when interpreting statement.

Its why so many of you get butthurt over your headcanon being false.

If Doflamingo was about fighting Admirals as much as you said he was. He wouldn't have tuck tail from Aokiji, Jump Fujitora when he had the chance, and ran from an old Tsuru.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Fel1x (Aug 7, 2020)

Yonko are comfortably above any admiral as always has been


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 7, 2020)

They’re about equal, but you should let them dream. Reality will smack the Yonkou stans in the face soon enough.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Bernkastel (Aug 7, 2020)

They're close in strength...simple as that.


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## Fel1x (Aug 7, 2020)

how can admiral=yonko , if 2 Yonko as a team are enough for marines to panic. and its kinda confirmed that 2 Yonko>Marines with Shichibukai


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## Geralt-Singh (Aug 7, 2020)

Yonko, clearly

Admirals will be defeated in Wano and will be history in about 50 chapters, they won't be here in the final arc

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Aug 7, 2020)

I think people are saying Akainu>Kaido later on are factoring Akainu's insane will power, which is the most important attribute in one piece to being strong above all else.



RossellaFiamingo said:


> Who cares? All that matters is that Linlin reigns supreme
> 
> Seriously though... Let Oden or the Scabbards bum rush any of the Admirals when they're not using haki and I bet you that Oden decapitates them and the scabbards put them in permanent wheel chairs. There are levels to this. Just because you can hurt a guy doesn't mean you're going to win.
> 
> ...




I think WB Island shattering rage filled gura punch>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>scabbards all out assault, so no I don't think the scabbards would do that much damage to an off guard admiral.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Aug 7, 2020)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> I think people are saying Akainu>Kaido later on
> 
> 
> 
> I think WB Island shattering rage filled gura punch>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>scabbards all out assault, so no I don't think the scabbards would do that much damage to an off guard admiral.


in destructive capacity, sure but I disagree on damage and lethality. If we go by sword boy logic and Oden Wank, the mere fact that the scabards have swords and are using "Odens" Ryuou makes the attack of the scabbards stronger than Newgate who even when bloodlusted was still on the brink of death. 

Remember, Oden is Oda's self insert who even has more kingly qualities and special powers than Whitebeard himself and he wants to make this moment big for the scabbards.


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## Dellinger (Aug 7, 2020)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Yonko, clearly
> 
> Admirals will be defeated in Wano and will be history in about 50 chapters, they won't be here in the final arc



This is like the worst kind of excuse ever.

Look what Kaido is going through. He will fight an entire nation of natural born warriors that will have their strength boosted by the moon and 7 extremely powerful guys who are hell bent on revenge and will stop at nothing.

You guys wanked the shit out of Akainu vs WB commanders and he only beat one.

Is Fujitora still with bandages I wonder ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> I think people are saying Akainu>Kaido later on are factoring Akainu's insane will power, which is the most important attribute in one piece to being strong above all else.


If we go at will power then we should pick the ones with coc.

Im not surprise if Akainu has it but its not confirm yet.


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## josh101 (Aug 7, 2020)

B Rabbit said:


> He didn't give two shits on the Admirals because they know his celestial dragon ties.
> 
> Kaidou doesn't care.


I thought the only reason the celestial dragons were doing his bidding was because of the secret he know that could destroy them? They had discarded him and his family decades ago.

If anything, the celestials would be happy if Doffy was dead or captured.


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## Six (Aug 7, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> The debate will never be settled until we see kaidou / Big Mom against one of those guys.
> 
> We still don't know why Marco and Vista's haki attack didn't do much to akainu even though they are clearly stronger than the scabbards.
> 
> The scabbards were clearly focused and determined damn near almost killed themselves to get that cut while marco and josu had just witnessed ace's death.


Their Haki attacks were probably weak at that moment due to their shattered mindset. They had just seen Ace get killed and that would have destroyed their fighting spirit. As we all know, Haki is equal to willpower. It makes sense considering earlier Vista was fighting Mihawk with a big grün on his face and had no problem.

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## El Hermano (Aug 7, 2020)

I'd say they're roughly equal. Maybe the likes of Kaido and maybe Big Mom have the slight edge.
 Kizaru was pretty confident in being able to stop Kaido and BM from meeting. Admirals should be able to compete them, considering they're the WG's best(known)line of defense.


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## Dunno (Aug 7, 2020)

Shanks is probably the strongest of the bunch, and Big Mom the weakest, but on average they seem pretty equal.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Aug 7, 2020)

Individual Yonko and Admirals are all different levels. Big Mom PL seems to be dependent on the amount of Homies she has; with a lower amount of Homies she is probably the weakest of the Yonko and Admirals (Certainly in her mindless or emaciated forms), as she is constantly being used as the measuring stick for Luffy and it seems like she will go down to Luffy first while Kaidou is held off by the Sabbers and Minks.

Kaidou will therefore obviously be stronger then BM, since he will be handled as the final villain of this arc by Luffy. So we are already going to see a variation in the Yonko: and likely the same applies to the Admirals, with Akainu as the Strongest presently at least.


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## Grimsley (Aug 7, 2020)

Shanks is the weakest Yonko if we look at
feats and BM/Kaido the strongest. Kaido and Mom would probably confidently beat an admiral but Shanks would probably struggle considering he is the weakest. Blackbeard is an anomaly right now.


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## Gianfi (Aug 7, 2020)

Yonko win as usual and as per canon. Claiming Admirals>Yonko or Admiral=Yonko is like saying that Zoro is > or = Luffy

Reactions: Like 2


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## Unicornsilovethem (Aug 7, 2020)

The weakest yonkou is stronger than the strongest admiral.

But the admirals are on the same team.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Aug 7, 2020)

Theyre equals


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## 9TalesOfDestruction (Aug 7, 2020)

Depends on the admiral/yonkou, and also how well their powers matchup.


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## YellowCosmos (Aug 7, 2020)

This chapter makes no difference the debate.
There is no evidence that the Admirals would do either better or worse in the situation Kaidou found himself in, nor is there any information about Kaidou vs Mink Army or Admirals vs Mink Army yet.
All this chapter does is show that Kaidou can be hurt by people who are weaker than Luffy as long as they have (as the Scabbards seem to do?) Ryou haki, which doesn't help us at all, because we know that most of the Admirals (or ex-Admirals) have massively powerful Ryou haki and are stronger than Luffy anyway.
It doesn't give us information about the other Yonkou or the other Admirals.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

BreadBoy said:


> Because plot, but also because cool moment.
> 
> Oda wanted to make them look cool, but he couldn't actually do serious harm to Akainu because he needed him to be around for later.


Actually, it was the potentially the same reason Katakuri could read attacks and manipulate his body in the shape of the attacks. There hasn't shown any way to ward off haki attacks (as of yet).



He most likely did this to evade their attacks.



Kylo Ren said:


> So I been living rent free in your head? Lmao.


The fact that I showed you evidence then you shunned it away? That's what I remembered. Don't give yourself too much credit.



Dellinger said:


> Doflamingo outright ignored Aokiji. Meanwhile as I said, the mere thought of Kaido had him piss his pants.


Aokiji is the most subdued of the Color Trio and the least likely to try to kill people. Seen time and again. Let that happen to Akainu or Kizaru, the opposite would happen. People mistake kindness and compassion for weakness, despite Aokiji stalemating Akainu for ten days and Akainu fighting WB and Akainu giving him his most substantial injuries.



Fel1x said:


> Yonko are comfortably above any admiral as always has been


Please show why. Don't just say it. Because I can show the exact opposite.



Gianfi said:


> Yonko win as usual and as per canon. Claiming Admirals>Yonko or Admiral=Yonko is like saying that Zoro is > or = Luffy


And once again, you can't prove what you're saying. Personal conveyance of "how hype is" versus the fact that's it's a chaotic non-universal system (Piracy) vs a system of order and responsibility (Marines) isn't a good way to convey why characters are stronger or weaker than one another. It's already been proven that most of Kaido's "rumors" aren't stacking, the "hype" for him was mostly rumors. Doesn't mean he's not strong. But Admirals can definitely defeat him



YellowCosmos said:


> This chapter makes no difference the debate.
> There is no evidence that the Admirals would do either better or worse in the situation Kaidou found himself in, nor is there any information about Kaidou vs Mink Army or Admirals vs Mink Army yet.
> All this chapter does is show that Kaidou can be hurt by people who are weaker than Luffy as long as they have (as the Scabbards seem to do?) Ryou haki, which doesn't help us at all, because we know that most of the Admirals (or ex-Admirals) have massively powerful Ryou haki and are stronger than Luffy anyway.
> It doesn't give us information about the other Yonkou or the other Admirals.


Somebody seems blind. They fought WB, the world's strongest man. Vs Kaido who is rumored to be the World's Strongest Creature. Akainu recovered very quickly from having to strikes from the World's Strongest Man. The Admirals have shown Advanced Haki abilities since Marineford Arc. As stated before in this post, if they hit Kaido, he's getting hurt.


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## YellowCosmos (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Somebody seems blind



Excuse me? I never denied the Admirals can hurt Kaidou.


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

YellowCosmos said:


> Excuse me? I never denied the Admirals can hurt Kaidou.


What I'm saying is that if WEAKER characters can perform an effective measure of hurting him. Would STRONGER characters like the Admirals be more effective against him. They fought WB, whose DC STILL HAS NOT been overwrote as the strongest attacks in One Piece despite people thinking he was the weakest Yonkou.


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## YellowCosmos (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> What I'm saying is that if WEAKER characters can perform an effective measure of hurting him. Would STRONGER characters like the Admirals be more effective against him. They fought WB, whose DC STILL HAS NOT been overwrote as the strongest attacks in One Piece despite people thinking he was the weakest Yonkou.



I don't disagree with that. I only said that this chapter made no difference to the debate. I don't think we needed this chapter to tell us that the Admirals couldn't hurt Kaidou, because we could reasonably believe it before today.


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

YellowCosmos said:


> I don't disagree with that. I only said that this chapter made no difference to the debate. I don't think we needed this chapter to tell us that the Admirals couldn't hurt Kaidou, because we could reasonably believe it before today.


It was just more evidence for the unreasonables to put in their heads when they say Admirals are weaker than Yonkou when they have fought some of the strongest characters in the series and stalemated them. There are still going to be people who have this thought process that Admirals are weaker despite the evidence shown by Oda that they aren't.


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## YellowCosmos (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> It was just more evidence for the unreasonables to put in their heads when they say Admirals are weaker than Yonkou when they have fought some of the strongest characters in the series and stalemated them. There are still going to be people who have this thought process that Admirals are weaker despite the evidence shown by Oda that they aren't.



Proof that the Admirals can hurt the Yonkou isn't proof they're not weaker than the Yonkou.


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

YellowCosmos said:


> Proof that the Admirals can hurt the Yonkou isn't proof they're not weaker than the Yonkou.


None of the Yonkou have displayed feats similar to WB, Old Era or New Era. If so please show those feats. Because people are stating Kaidou is this overwhelming force without doing that. When he's not.


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## Dellinger (Aug 7, 2020)

Akainu didn't get back right away but that's another story.

As for the matter at hand, no Admiral can just endure the attack Kaido did without Logia defense or even Haki. This chapter is a point to Kaido, not against him as you are trying to do.

If any Admiral shits his ass like that without guarding or anything, Scabbards are dealing massive damage. They couldn't do that to Kaido.

As for the rest of the stuff you post, it's hilarious that some of you try to pass Kaido's title as a rumor. Oda outright placed Kaido above Akainu and called him the strongest creature. Novels supervised by Oda call him the strongest creature. Kaido right in this chapter says he's going to show the strongest power in the world etc.

Kaido vs Luffy and Luffy vs Fujitora is pretty telling about the difference in strength.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 7, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> how can admiral=yonko , if 2 Yonko as a team are enough for marines to panic. and its kinda confirmed that 2 Yonko>Marines with Shichibukai


1) The Marines panick, because it’s a threat. They panicked when Whitebeard came too. Remind me again how that worked out for him, his crew, his allies and the Impel Down breakout crew that fought with him against the Marines?

2) No. that wasn’t confirmed.


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## Canute87 (Aug 7, 2020)

Snake said:


> Their Haki attacks were probably weak at that moment due to their shattered mindset. They had just seen Ace get killed and that would have destroyed their fighting spirit. As we all know, Haki is equal to willpower. It makes sense considering earlier Vista was fighting Mihawk with a big grün on his face and had no problem.



Katakuri said that if one doesn't have a calm mind COO doesn't work.

I'd like to hear something similiar with COA, it would really fill a gap on certain things.

marco was sucessfully hitting the admirals until akainu, whitebeard after seeing ace's death was his most focused.


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## Dellinger (Aug 7, 2020)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) The Marines panick, because it’s a threat. They panicked when Whitebeard came too. Remind me again how that worked out for him, his crew, his allies and the Impel Down breakout crew that fought with him against the Marines?
> 
> 2) No. that wasn’t confirmed.


I don't remember any Admiral panicking when WB came. Fujitora and Akainu were all sweaty when they found out about the alliance.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 7, 2020)

Dellinger said:


> I don't remember any Admiral panicking when WB came. Fujitora and Akainu were all sweaty when they found out about the alliance.


To be fair, Sengoku panicked, but that’s sort of his thing. We know for a fact from the recent flashbacks that Sengoku used to fight Roger and that Roger considered him a worthy opponent. The fact that people are still pretending that the Emperors are clearly above the Admirals is just adorable.


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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> The fact that I showed you evidence then you shunned it away? That's what I remembered. Don't give yourself too much credit.


There is no evidence that shown that Burgess is equal to Katakuri. None. All you you did was talk about what Burgess could be in the future.

Anyway this is off topic.

Although Im curious what is the exact opposite you're talking about with fel1x? After all you made a thread asking us what we think of this topic you should give yours why you think they're equals.


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## Vengeance (Aug 7, 2020)

Final tally?


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## Dellinger (Aug 7, 2020)

Lee-Sensei said:


> To be fair, Sengoku panicked, but that’s sort of his thing. We know for a fact from the recent flashbacks that Sengoku used to fight Roger and that Roger considered him a worthy opponent. The fact that people are still pretending that the Emperors are clearly above the Admirals is just adorable.



Nobody has ever said that the Yonko would stomp the Admirals. That doesn't mean that they aren't stronger though. 

Portrayal, hype, showings etc all go with them. Yonko had in their ranks the strongest man and creature respectively, Yonko have 2 members who are near impossible to damage, it's Yonko Shanks, the guy that Roger saw as his heir, the that Akainu was sweating against, its Yonko Teach with the 2 fruits etc.

Admirals on the other hand are the strongest fighters of the WG, clearly a trio of some of the best fighters in the world, clearly monsters with strong fruits that nobody can deal easily with. But as I mentioned above they are no special like the Yonko. They can't one shot a guy on Luffy's level like that, they can't just stand still and not be damaged without resorting to protecting themselves, they can't jump from a sky island and survive.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

Dellinger said:


> They can't one shot a guy on Luffy's level like that


Actually they can (aokiji) but with distraction


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## Flame (Aug 7, 2020)

Equal. I'm the 100th reply so my post > everyone else's.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

Dellinger said:


> Akainu didn't get back right away but that's another story.
> 
> As for the matter at hand, no Admiral can just endure the attack Kaido did without Logia defense or even Haki. This chapter is a point to Kaido, not against him as you are trying to do.
> 
> ...


He didn't need to get back right away. He had to be able to dig through the ground before he fell into the ocean, it's that simple. That means he couldn't have been out for too long otherwise he'd have died.

No, it's a point against Kaido. He was billed as nothing being able to pierce his body 20 years stronger, and the Scabbards did. Even Scabbards from 20 years before with not as much training and experience as Scabbards like Ashura Douji and Denjiro.

That doesn't matter. Because again, weaker characters pierced the supposed "strongest durability" in One Piece. Admirals can do that, and better. That's the entire point.

No. All of it was rumored. His "strongest creature" was rumored. The novelization stated that the person who got the information got it from speculation about the powers of the Yonkou, which means it was still rumored. Kaido states a lot of things, but he's shown nothing of true surprise that Whitebeard himself hasn't shown, that characters like Shanks hasn't shown by way of stalemating Whitebeard, and that Big Mom hasn't shown by stalemating him. most of the stuff that's stated about him has been disproven. Oden defeated him in terms of strength and ability and Kaido's body has been pierced by weaker characters. 

People love going to the Fujitora thing, but not the taking two of the strongest hits in the series from Whitebeard thing. Not only that, Fujitora fought against characters like Sabo no problem, Sabo was already stronger than Luffy. But, keep being delusional.



Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) The Marines panick, because it’s a threat. They panicked when Whitebeard came too. Remind me again how that worked out for him, his crew, his allies and the Impel Down breakout crew that fought with him against the Marines?
> 
> 2) No. that wasn’t confirmed.


They don't seem to understand that the Marines don't want the entire power structure of the world to fall apart because their entire job is to protect people from the potentially dangerous. They don't want to use the setting itself to understand that if this does happen then many innocent lives and the power balance will fall. Why is WB dangerous? Sengoku states it himself: "This man has the power to destroy the world".



Canute87 said:


> Katakuri said that if one doesn't have a calm mind COO doesn't work.
> 
> I'd like to hear something similiar with COA, it would really fill a gap on certain things.
> 
> marco was sucessfully hitting the admirals until akainu, whitebeard after seeing ace's death was his most focused.


The "calm mind" thing seems to be the case with Internal Destruction.



Kylo Ren said:


> There is no evidence that shown that Burgess is equal to Katakuri. None. All you you did was talk about what Burgess could be in the future.
> 
> Anyway this is off topic.
> 
> Although Im curious what is the exact opposite you're talking about with fel1x? After all you made a thread asking us what we think of this topic you should give yours why you think they're equals.


That's not what I stated. I stated that Sabo is potentially superior to characters like Katakuri and that saying that because Jesus Burgess fell to him that Sabo was on par with characters like Katakuri instead of stronger as their wasn't anything to show for this, was you making your own headcanon.

I've already given it in the past why. Multiple times. Nothing in series has showcased that the Yonkou were superior. The strongest Yonkou WB was an exception to the rule of Yonkou, all other Yonkou and Admirals were equals until proven otherwise. As shown with Big Mom and Kaido, as shown with Shanks and Whitebeard. As shown with Akainu and Aokiji.



Dellinger said:


> Nobody has ever said that the Yonko would stomp the Admirals. That doesn't mean that they aren't stronger though.
> 
> Portrayal, hype, showings etc all go with them. Yonko had in their ranks the strongest man and creature respectively, Yonko have 2 members who are near impossible to damage, it's Yonko Shanks, the guy that Roger saw as his heir, the that Akainu was sweating against, its Yonko Teach with the 2 fruits etc.
> 
> Admirals on the other hand are the strongest fighters of the WG, clearly a trio of some of the best fighters in the world, clearly monsters with strong fruits that nobody can deal easily with. But as I mentioned above they are no special like the Yonko. They can't one shot a guy on Luffy's level like that, they can't just stand still and not be damaged without resorting to protecting themselves, they can't jump from a sky island and survive.


You still haven't given a good reason of why that is. Enlighten us.

"Portrayal". Akainu blew half the head off the officially titled: "World's Strongest Man" and survived two hits from him with very little affecting his combat ability. He goes on to fight against two of some of the strongest characters in the series after this in Marco and Vista, and easily evades their attacks as seen with how Katakuri uses his DF powers to do the same despite them having haki. If I was an idiot who didn't understand power dynamics, I'd say Akainu's portrayal was superior to anything characters like Kaido and Big Mom has shown.  Luckily I understand that you putting all your eggs into a basket of expectations is stupid as only Oda can showcase that these characters are what they are. 

"Hype". Kizaru states he's willing to go and stop Big Mom and Kaido from meeting or even fighting against them by himself. Characters like Aokiji are called the World Government's "Strongest Military Powers", which if you haven't guessed means that the System that controls the entire world thinks that they are some of the strongest characters in the series, bar none. How do we know that they are on par with one another? Aokiji and Akainu have a fight which completely changes the weather of an island in two halves. The biggest thing to come out of a Yonkou's showings is the feats from WB which people use to scale Yonkou higher than they actually are. If anything the Admirals have shown more hype than the Yonkou.

None of the Yonkou are special if the character with the "strongest durability" just got pierced by characters who were weaker than the Admirals. By the way "they can't one shot a guy like Luffy like that". Please prove that Katakuri is on par with the Admirals since you wish to make such a claim by stating Luffy somehow has an Admirals strength. Luffy sees both the Admirals and the Yonkou as walls he has to knock over stating it towards Fujitora before Fujitora got angry and flung him away with Purple Tiger where he'd have fell into the ocean if he wasn't caught by Harj.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Canute87 (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> The "calm mind" thing seems to be the case with Internal Destruction.
> 
> .



The could be the case, because even Rayleigh of all people  had to pause and focus before removing caimie's collar.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 7, 2020)

A Yonkou should be able to consistently beat an Admiral but it should take a lot of effort, like a  Luffy vs Katakuri level fight. The reason for this is that the World Government is one big decentralised team while the Yonkou are four unaligned, concentrated ones. As such the Yonkou crews need to be vastly more top-heavy just to even slightly keep up. In other words, Big Mom and Kaido are probably worth around 1.2-1.3 Admirals. If they ever had to fight two at once without their commanders running interference they'd be doomed but if it's just one Admiral and no extenuating circumstances you should bet on the Yonkou.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> A Yonkou should be able to consistently beat an Admiral but it should take a lot of effort, like a  Luffy vs Katakuri level fight. The reason for this is that the World Government is one big decentralised team while the Yonkou are four unaligned, concentrated ones. As such the Yonkou crews need to be vastly more top-heavy just to even slightly keep up. In other words, Big Mom and Kaido are probably worth around 1.2-1.3 Admirals. If they ever had to fight two at once without their commanders running interference they'd be doomed but if it's just one Admiral and no extenuating circumstances you should bet on the Yonkou.


You're talking about "crews" here. We're talking about if you go 1v1 against an Admiral (once again, Whitebeard is the exception, not the rule, no other Yonkou has shown the same level of power WB.

Don't judge by crews. 1v1s, showcase why they are stronger with feats, WOG and scaling.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> You're talking about "crews" here. We're talking about if you go 1v1 against an Admiral (once again, Whitebeard is the exception, not the rule, no other Yonkou has shown the same level of power WB.
> 
> Don't judge by crews. 1v1s, showcase why they are stronger with feats, WOG and scaling.



that's what this bit



Nighty the Mighty said:


> In other words, Big Mom and Kaido are probably worth around 1.2-1.3 Admirals.



is about.


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> that's what this bit
> 
> is about.


But you didn't give a good reason why. Which is what...



Gomu said:


> Don't judge by crews. 1v1s, showcase why they are stronger with feats, WOG and scaling.



This bit is about.


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## Mariko (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> None of the Yonkou have displayed feats similar to WB, Old Era or New Era. If so please show those feats. Because people are stating Kaidou is this overwhelming force without doing that. When he's not.



Shanks just needed to show his ass to stop the war. Akainu obey'd him like his pet dog. 

Best feat in the whole manga so far. Even BB had no other choices but to run away. 

What is actually your point, your argument?

Ofc admirals can wound a yonkou, and? 

Squadro wounded WB. Is he stronger than him? Or was WB a fraud?  

Yonkou are stronger than any admiral on 1 vs 1.

Denying it is like saying the earth is flat and 2+2=22.

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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

Mariko said:


> Shanks just needed to show his ass to stop the war. Akainu obey'd him like his pet dog.
> 
> Best feat in the whole manga so far. Even BB had no other choices but to run away.
> 
> ...


Make sure you say after fighting against WB with that. Sengoku also stopped the war and him going against that would be insubordination. Kizaru had no problem attacking Benn Beckmann was aiming a gun at him, despite Shanks' presence. Conveniently forgetting important details isn't very cute.

BB also needed help in fighting a dying WB too. BB also ran away from Akainu despite there being no other Admirals with him.

It should be clear, what's the thread about. You're not stupid.

Again, read the thread, you're not stupid. It's right there.

You mean attacking him from behind? WB never stated his body could never be pierced by weaker individuals. 

Prove it. If you use the WB reasoning, than you'd be saying that WB was the weakest Yonkou so all other Yonkou could also be as strong as he was. Then not only would you need to prove that, you'd also have to show feats of them showcasing the same destructive potential as WB. I'd love to see that. Also, Akainu took two blows from WB and they were at his angriest. Can any of the other Yonkou state they did that... Or has there even been a hint of that showcasing. I keep saying WB was an exception to the rule, you must have another reason why the Yonkou are stronger other than WB, right?

Funny how you're using mathematics but can't show feats supporting your claims.


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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> That's not what I stated. I stated that Sabo is potentially superior to characters like Katakuri and that saying that because Jesus Burgess fell to him that Sabo was on par with characters like Katakuri instead of stronger as their wasn't anything to show for this, was you making your own headcanon.


Whats headcanon is calling Sabo superior to Katakuri.

And again you're basing your argument to future events thats why you said potentially. Zoro is potentially stronger than Katakuri too but not at the moment.

But it doesnt matter just by comparing feats by feats and portrayal you can already know that Katakuri is superior to Burgess.



Gomu said:


> I've already given it in the past why. Multiple times. Nothing in series has showcased that the Yonkou were superior. The strongest Yonkou WB was an exception to the rule of Yonkou, all other Yonkou and Admirals were equals until proven otherwise. As shown with Big Mom and Kaido, as shown with Shanks and Whitebeard. As shown with Akainu and Aokiji.


Well I dont always read your post.

You list yonko vs yonko and admiral vs admiral but nothing against yonko vs admiral. You never even give a solid argument.

Yonko are stated to be equal and it shown when they clash. They split the sky but when WB and Akainu did what happen is, well you know. Seems like someone is nit on other level and we both know who.

You excluded WB to the yonko cause you probably think WB is superior to Akainu and it did even in old age and sickness. The same WB that been clashing with other yonko to stalemate and in healthy condition.


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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

And Akainu surviving two hits from WB yes but Kaido and BM will definitely done better.

Two Yonko joining forces everybody losing their mind. Admiral join yonko crew no one bats an eye.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

Kylo Ren said:


> Whats headcanon is calling Sabo superior to Katakuri.
> 
> And again you're basing your argument to future events thats why you said potentially. Zoro is potentially stronger than Katakuri too but not at the moment.
> 
> ...


Sabo has shown better feats than Katakuri with fighting an Admiral. Which I keep stating is equal to a Yonkou. He's not Yonkou level as he could only fight him while he was casual and even states such. Bt showcase Katakuri doing the same thing, even hinting that he wished to fight against Big Mom.

No. I'm basing it only clear facts shown in story. You just don't want to hear it. Which is why I have a disdain for talking to you in the first place. Fujitora is an Admiral, Sabo can fight against an Admiral, which is a better feat than fighting G4 Luffy. Luffy can "harm" Fujitora with G3, despite the fact that he's an Admiral, which a small mark on his face isn't really harming him, but whatever.

That was never the point of the situation. The point was he easily defeated Burgess who is considered strong enough to be a Commander for Blackbeard. That's all I was stating. And I stated that multiple times, you didn't listen, you started talking shit. You couldn't show evidence, so you starting raving. It's something people with no leg to stand on normally do.

And you expect me to read yours. OK...

I've given reasons all throughout this and other topics I've been apart of. Being able to fight against the portrayed, strongest, Yonkou gives Akainu a leg up on the Yonkou, but I instead understand that the power dynamic should be equalled because they have never been portrayed as weaker or stronger than one another. Several hints throughout the story state that WB was considered the strongest Yonkou even while dying from sickness and old age. I'll use someone's post to cement why I think this: 

So, when Akainu takes half of Whitebeard's head and puts a hole in his chest with his own powers, I guess he just isn't on par with those superior Yonkou... Despite those Yonkou not showcasing the same ability. Examples being characters like Linlin stating she needed Giants to go after WB's crew as well as WB himself. Kaido using the confusion of getting back Ace to go and try to start a war with WB. Akainu being knocked down and then standing up to fight again despite taking two of WB's strongest hits.

He was. He won the clashes in the end, and even in his sickness he was still considered the strongest man. The burden of showcasing why the other Yonkou are on par with him, is on you. If Word of God, and some of the smartest most knowledgeable individuals in One Piece are wrong, prove it.




Kylo Ren said:


> And Akainu surviving two hits from WB yes but Kaido and BM will definitely done better.
> 
> Two Yonko joining forces everybody losing their mind. Admiral join yonko crew no one bats an eye.


Then prove that.

We don't know the story of Aokiji's relationship with Blackbeard. Your dishonesty is showing, and you're showing why I don't deal with you further. You got one shot before I just ignore you for my last day, I hope you make it count.


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## Mariko (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Prove it.



What can I prove about One Piece to someone who's reading Two Piece? 

Yonkou being individually stronger than admirals is just as obvious as Luffy being the MC. 

If you can't see what's obvious I can't help you. 

There's nothing to prove here. Just read the right manga sweet two piece child.


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

Mariko said:


> What can I prove about One Piece to someone who's reading Two Piece?
> 
> Yonkou being individually stronger than admirals is just as obvious as Luffy being the MC.
> 
> ...


How am I reading two piece when I described the situations that you tried to make seem more beneficial to the Yonkou. That's what happened. Akainu stopped, yes, Kizaru also stopped but started again, Sengoku stopped the war. BB ran away from Akainu because it wasn't beneficial for him to keep fighting.

Luffy states that the Yonkou and the Admirals are a problem, funny how you again take from situations what you want.

More like you can't help yourself, which I do feel sorry for. You need to make a narrative your own way because you don't want to see Admirals as equal, that's a problem for you, not me. Especially with this latest chapter showcasing that weaker characters can indeed pierce Kaido's skin, so more mastered, highly powerful characters who could fight against opponents like WB, sick or otherwise, should have much easier times. Especially Aokiji and Akainu.

I think I'm reading the right manga, I do wish you were though, sweet two piece child. I'd stop making yourself look bad, but here at Narutoforums, it seems that's just the thing people like you seem to want to do.


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## Mariko (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> How am I reading two piece when I described the situations that you tried to make seem more beneficial to the Yonkou. That's what happened. Akainu stopped, yes, Kizaru also stopped but started again, Sengoku stopped the war. BB ran away from Akainu because it wasn't beneficial for him to keep fighting.
> 
> Luffy states that the Yonkou and the Admirals are a problem, funny how you again take from situations what you want.
> 
> ...



You're repeating the same nothing. Again and again.

It's not because you'll say something wrong 10 times that it will become right.

Yonkou being individually stronger than admirals is just common sense. And Shanks aside I'm not a yonkou fan.

As chars Kizaru or Fujitora are way more interesting and "badass" than BM and Kaidou, who are so poorly written.

Let's be clear on one point though, I'm not saying any single yonkou could deal with many admirals. Just that on 1 vs 1 they (emperors) are (have been portrayed as) stronger.

Akainu is maybe the exception. If anything he's the only admiral who could fight on par with a yonkou (all yonkou being differents though).

I'm gonna be fair and give you one thing: Oda has always been vague on tier level. And he's doing it on purpose so he can change the tier hierarchy when plot recquires it. So, by the end and if he decides it, admirals could be revealed as emperor level. But it wouldn't make sense from my pov, seeing how Marco, Jozu or Beckman were portrayed as admiral level (or around).

Once again I'm nor either a pro-yonkou or an anti-admiral. I don't care. Oda does the job, and I just accept it how it is. If he clearly states that admirals = yonkou, well, fine. Just a bit inconsistent with what we saw during MF.

Maybe MF was a mistake, but that's another debate.


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

Mariko said:


> You're repeating the same nothing. Again and again.
> 
> It's not because you'll say something wrong 10 times that it will become right.
> 
> ...


My "nothing" speaks more volumes than your "Two Piece" statements. At least I understand what's happening in the story, obviously you do not.

Funny how you should talk about being wrong... You're a riot today, Mariko. I thought you'd have learned to read by now. It's even got pictures and you still can't understand the story.

And yet you haven't shown anything that states that's the case. Ain't it sad that your "sure thing" has no foundation, it's in the ocean, so no leverage, should I put a slippery when wet sign on those floors you're standing, because you can't be grounded on any strong platform, spilling water every time you speak.

Do you know what "subjective" means? You have to because that's the only claims you seem to make right now.

Then show these portrayals. Please. Talk with your feats, not with your subjective opinions. "Shanks stopped the war". That's fine. Kizaru: "Should I go and deal with them". I could use that just as much as you could use Shanks reputation and position. 


"Akainu is maybe the exception" means that he wasn't stalemated with Aokiji for 10 days. Oh look, you forget facts again to make subjective arguments...

"Vague"? Another subjective argument. Can you explain to me why Kaido got pierced by those scabbards again? Is that also subjective?

You don't accept it though, you wouldn't be saying a Yonkou is stronger than an Admiral with nothing to back it up. Luffy has stated that they are two hurdles he has to overcome, which should have been the end of the fight right there. Akainu survived and almost took down the strongest Yonkou and even after being beaten down was still capable of fighting back afterward. These are facts, not subjective anecdotes. Akainu was capable of fighting Whitebeard who was considered, until his death, the strongest Yonkou. That's more than any other Yonkou has shown.

I won't be here for another debate, so you continue trying to tell yourself something that's not real. I hope you learn one day but all I can do is give the information. 



You not wanting to read it? That's not my problem.


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## Captain Altintop (Aug 7, 2020)

Yonko and Admirals are basically the on the same tier. 
Old Whitebeard (healthy) was en expection tho and little bit above Shanks or Kaido.
On each side there have to be counterparts to neutralize.

Akainu ~ Shanks
Kizaru ~ Kaido
Fujitora ~ BM
Greenbull ~ Current Teach


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## Mariko (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Do you know what "subjective" means?



I guess I do. 

Do you though? 

Everything is subjective. But let's not enter this debate, it would lead us too far off topic.

I sure have bias, as you do. My subjective bias tell me yonkou > admirals. Yours the opposite. 

Well, it's 2 pieces vs 2 pieces if you want. 

I'm just saying that, from my subjective pov, Oda clearly portrayed FM as admiral level, hence Yonkou stronger than admirals. 

Basic logic. 

Now blame Oda if he's been vague. Or blame humans to be enclosed in their own unsurpassable subjective condition.


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

Mariko said:


> I guess I do.
> 
> Do you though?
> 
> ...


If you did know you wouldn't be saying what you think about the portrayals of characters in a debate about facts.

Obviously I do, as my subjections mean nothing to the grand scheme of the "hype, feats, and word of god" that I'm asking you to bring to the table. 

It's not subjective if it's right in your face and it can be proven. You can't state that gravity is subjective, that if the sun goes out on our world we'll all die is subjective. And for even stating that I think I have to show you what subjective means, as you don't seem to get it.



I don't have bias when it comes to facts. If Kaido is the strongest creature, and we see that he's so far above everyone else that he gets the same type of "welcoming party" as Marineford gave WB, then you're completely correct. But everything so far, and everything with this current chapter has showcased that most of what Kaido has been saying, has been rumors and hearsay as stated in my post of that thread.

Again, you're saying I'm reading fanfiction, but I have proof against your claims. You've shown nothing, "just hearsay".

Then your "subjection" needs to become an "objection" to your own value system for this series. You can like whatever characters you want, despite what I say about him, I love Luffy's character, doesn't change facts.



I'm showing about as much logic as one can show, again, you not taking my stance on that logic is your business. Just like not wearing a mask when moving outside in people dense places should be objective yet it's considered subjective and we're paying for it with our time and our lives.

I blame you for not reading. Oda writes the story how he wants. It's our job to put two and two together.


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## Mariko (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> If you did know you wouldn't be saying what you think about the portrayals of characters in a debate about facts.
> 
> Obviously I do, as my subjections mean nothing to the grand scheme of the "hype, feats, and word of god" that I'm asking you to bring to the table.
> 
> ...



Tl;dr.

I answered in PM. 

We won't agree anyway. 

Time will tell, or not.


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## Captain Altintop (Aug 7, 2020)

Mariko said:


> *Yonkou being individually stronger than admirals is just as obvious as Luffy being the MC. *



Honestly, I don't think it's proven that every Yonko >/=/< Admiral. 
Until now, we can only speculate.
There might be more hints for putting Yonko above Admirals than the opposite,
but we need to see an Admiral vs Yonko full fight by ourselves.


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## Mariko (Aug 7, 2020)

Captain Altintop said:


> Until now, we can only speculate.



I agree this 100%. I speculate Yonkou > admirals seems canon to me. 



Captain Altintop said:


> we need to see an Admiral vs Yonko full fight by ourselves.



I agree 1000%. Will Oda do this though? Will Oda deceive a big part of his fanbase?

Dude knows how his fans are divided into factions. So I think this is the reason why he never really clarified things, giving all factions what they want to support their team. 

Let's wait and see. 

For now I still hard think Yonkou > admirals. 

For now.


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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Sabo has shown better feats than Katakuri with fighting an Admiral.


Of course he did cause katakuri never fought an admiral on panel but it doesnt mean he cannot.


Gomu said:


> The point was he easily defeated Burgess who is considered strong enough to be a Commander for Blackbeard. That's all I was stating.


You state that Burgess can be on par with Katakuri because he is a top commander on a yonko crew.

But never accept that Katakuri can replicate what Sabo did against Fujitora just by the fact that Marco can fighr admirals who also a top commander of a yonko crew. So much for talking dishonesty.



Gomu said:


> And you expect me to read yours. OK...


I mean your stance of the topic about yonko vs admirals. I didnt read all your post on all threads. 


WB being strongest is already been answer by the man himself.

"I cant be the strongest forever"

Croc: youre not this weak when you defeat me.

Law stated that the kaido,bm and shanks fighting wb.


Gomu said:


> So, when Akainu takes half of Whitebeard's head and puts a hole in his chest with his own powers, I guess he just isn't on par with those superior Yonkou


Akainu still lose.


Gomu said:


> The burden of showcasing why the other Yonkou are on par with him, is on you. If Word of God, and some of the smartest most knowledgeable individuals in One Piece are wrong, prove it.


Yonko have been on deadlock, stalemate situation.


Gomu said:


> We don't know the story of Aokiji's relationship with Blackbeard. Your dishonesty is showing, and you're showing why I don't deal with you further. You got one shot before I just ignore you for my last day, I hope you make it count.


Doesnt matter the fact Aokiji join hand with blackbeard didnt make enough ruckus to cause a world wide panic. It probably just like drake joining beast pirates but its a fact that other yonko didnt budge.

I just going to ignore your superiority complex. I cant go back and forth with you again.

Another feat I like to add G3 Luffy hurt Fuji while depending you admit that but G4 Luffy didnt hurt Kaido.


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## JustSumGuy (Aug 7, 2020)

On average the characters that we’ve seen with the Yonko title are stronger than those with the rank of Admiral. Doesn’t mean that their on separate tiers though. No character besides maybe Prime Roger and WB is beating any admiral with less than high diff.


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## Gomu (Aug 7, 2020)

Kylo Ren said:


> Of course he did cause katakuri never fought an admiral on panel but it doesnt mean he cannot.
> 
> You state that Burgess can be on par with Katakuri because he is a top commander on a yonko crew.
> 
> ...


You think that Katakuri has these types of problems fighting against Luffy, that he can easily fight against other Admirals the way Sabo can? I'm pretty sure an Admiral, especially ones that were of Akainu's caliber, wouldn't have issues 1 v 1ing Luffy, before Wano country. Oh I know what I'll hear: "But Luffy so easily evaded them in Marineford". Despite the fact that Luffy was so overwhelmed that he needed another injection of pheromones and the help of some of the most experienced pirates in the series to get anywhere in Marineford.

That's the reason you guys usually put people on YC level right? Because of a title, correct?

Prove it. That Katakuri has the potential to fight other Admirals the same way Marco did. His feats against Luffy says he can't. But that's your burden of proof.

You don't seem to read at all. Otherwise you wouldn't be making baseless assumptions.

See, I know you didn't read because I have an actual link showcasing quotes about Whitebeard's status as the "strongest". You also forget that no one can be the strongest forever due to old age and death. Which was more likely what he was referring to. 

Oh look, he can't even quote the actual quote:


At least showcase in actual complete sentences what you're saying dude. Just one more reason not to listen to you.

Akainu didn't even go unconscious, he fell down the fissure. That's not a loss. Again, it builds, dishonesty builds dishonesty... Keep it coming.

And what does that mean? Deadlock situation? They could take over the Marines base whenever they wanted too, right? They're stronger than the Marines. Why don't they just do it...

We don't even know when it happened. We don't know what the situation is or if it's even common knowledge. More dishonesty. Please showcase when the situation with Aokiji and Blackbeard became well known in One Piece, you have to have that scan, right?

Oh no. It was going to be. I just hate dishonest people. Take care of yourself. Maybe learn how to show evidence, make at least a complete sentence, and at least understand what you're talking about in the next life.



JustSumGuy said:


> On average the characters that we’ve seen with the Yonko title are stronger than those with the rank of Admiral. Doesn’t mean that their on separate tiers though. No character besides maybe Prime Roger and WB is beating any admiral with less than high diff.


Please show proof of why that is. If you can't show proof you're being ignored by me. Because it's the same stupid crap. You can say whatever you want, but can you prove it.


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## Kylo Ren (Aug 7, 2020)

Gomu said:


> You think that Katakuri has these types of problems fighting against Luffy, that he can easily fight against other Admirals the way Sabo can? I'm pretty sure an Admiral, especially ones that were of Akainu's caliber, wouldn't have issues 1 v 1ing Luffy, before Wano country. Oh I know what I'll hear: "But Luffy so easily evaded them in Marineford". Despite the fact that Luffy was so overwhelmed that he needed another injection of pheromones and the help of some of the most experienced pirates in the series to get anywhere in Marineford.
> 
> That's the reason you guys usually put people on YC level right? Because of a title, correct?
> 
> Prove it. That Katakuri has the potential to fight other Admirals the same way Marco did. His feats against Luffy says he can't. But that's your burden of proof.


G2/G3 Luffy showcase he can fight admiral level characters even hurting one in the process meanwhile kata easily beat Luffy pre future sight.

Oh wait where is the burgess narrative? Left it on purpose cause I might expose you again? Why give burgess benefit of doubt even though feats and portrayal he have nothing compare to katakuri? Oh right he is top yonk9 commander lol

Stop bullshitting me man.


Gomu said:


> You don't seem to read at all. Otherwise you wouldn't be making baseless assumptions.


Try harder.


Gomu said:


> See, I know you didn't read because I have an actual link showcasing quotes about Whitebeard's status as the "strongest". You also forget that no one can be the strongest forever due to old age and death. Which was more likely what he was referring to.


Are you Oda? I say he is reffering to his current state. 


Gomu said:


> Akainu didn't even go unconscious, he fell down the fissure. That's not a loss. Again, it builds, dishonesty builds dishonesty... Keep it coming.


Its a lose. When someone fighting 1v1 and another gone and take a break and the other continue fighting. Dishonesty builds dishonesty... keep it coming.


Gomu said:


> And what does that mean? Deadlock situation? They could take over the Marines base whenever they wanted too, right? They're stronger than the Marines. Why don't they just do it...


Try harder. Forgot what law said? Or you just dismiss it to suit youe narrative again? Lol


Gomu said:


> We don't even know when it happened. We don't know what the situation is or if it's even common knowledge. More dishonesty. Please showcase when the situation with Aokiji and Blackbeard became well known in One Piece, you have to have that scan, right?


Alright Ill concede here. There was none.

But you know what this tell? Im ready to accept im wrong unlike you. Burgess = katakuri lol who is dishonest now. You're not as good as you think you are.


Gomu said:


> Oh no. It was going to be. I just hate dishonest people. Take care of yourself. Maybe learn how to show evidence, make at least a complete sentence, and at least understand what you're talking about in the next life.


You hate yourself? Oh boy. Dont hate yourself lil boy after all you know what im about to say right? Lmao



Gomu said:


> . Oh I know what I'll hear: "But Luffy so easily evaded them in Marineford".


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## TheOmega (Aug 8, 2020)

Yonko>>Admirals
Admirals>>YFMs
Yonkoset>Admiralgang

Lmao at people getting hyped because the 9 Scabbards who we already know have MULTIPLE members that are YC2-YC5 were able to Squardo a drunk Kaido. Bravo lol.

Difference is Kaido is not old and on life support so he still has access to Haki and won't be having heart attacks and shit in the middle of battle.

He's still gonna give a strong enough performance to show why the Yonko are the top tiers feared by the Admirals themselves

Prepare your tears Admiralgang

Reactions: Like 2


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## La buse (Aug 8, 2020)

Yonko have always been above admirals. Portrayal and feats of characters like Whitebeard, Big Mom and Kaido are greater than admirals.  Even their introduction have always been about their greatness (world strongest man, world strongest creature). I mean, the fact alone that someone can become an admiral through a World Military Draft, that alone put it below the Yonko statut which is way harder to get.

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## Descent of the Lion (Aug 8, 2020)

Slightly weaker to the point that a clean shot from a Yonko can overwhelm an Admiral, but a few hits from one won't be pleasant for a Yonko. 

My guess is that Akainu is the only Yonko level Admiral and may be stronger than that by the end of the series.

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## Six (Aug 8, 2020)

Captain Altintop said:


> Honestly, I don't think it's proven that every Yonko >/=/< Admiral.
> Until now, we can only speculate.
> There might be more hints for putting Yonko above Admirals than the opposite,
> but we need to see an Admiral vs Yonko full fight by ourselves.


Currently, the only Yonkou probably weaker than an individual Admiral is Teach imo.


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## Captain Altintop (Aug 8, 2020)

Snake said:


> Currently, the only Yonkou probably weaker than an individual Admiral is Teach imo.


Post Wano he might be eventually catch up to Big Mum and around MF C3 Level something like that ? 
I mean Teach is Yonko since the beginning of time skip in FI Arc. Difficult to gauge.


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## TheOmega (Aug 8, 2020)

La buse said:


> Yonko have always been above admirals. Portrayal and feats of characters like Whitebeard, Big Mom and Kaido are greater than admirals.  Even their introduction have always been about their greatness (world strongest man, world strongest creature). I mean, the fact alone that someone can become an admiral through a World Military Draft, that alone put it below the Yonko statut which is way harder to get.



This right here.

Admiral status is given
Yonko status is taken

Once an Admiral always an Admiral
Once a Yonko you have to constantly defend against and contest other Yonko

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## VileNotice (Aug 8, 2020)

La buse said:


> Yonko have always been above admirals. Portrayal and feats of characters like Whitebeard, Big Mom and Kaido are greater than admirals.  Even their introduction have always been about their greatness (world strongest man, world strongest creature). I mean, the fact alone that someone can become an admiral through a World Military Draft, that alone put it below the Yonko statut which is way harder to get.


The fact the WG got 2 admiral level guys from the draft is a bit far-fetched to me. Imo one of the two should've been a New World VA (I guess Green Bull would make the most sense), perhaps the previous holder of Vergo's position, who was given a strong DF upon promotion. Fujitora makes sense as a wandering top tier though I suppose.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 8, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> This right here.
> 
> Admiral status is given
> Yonko status is taken
> ...


Did you read the aftermath of WCI? Cause this definitely isn't true lol.


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## TheOmega (Aug 8, 2020)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> Did you read the aftermath of WCI? Cause this definitely isn't true lol.



He's a "5th Yonko" that every other Yonko laughed at. They don't laugh at EACH OTHER. They ABSOLUTELY LAUGHED at Luffy, with Kaido going as far as one shotting him and telling him to stop playing pirate games lol

When he's a LEGITIMATE top tier we WILL KNOW. And so will the rest of the top tiers

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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 8, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> He's a "5th Yonko" that every other Yonko laughed at. They don't laugh at EACH OTHER. They ABSOLUTELY LAUGHED at Luffy, with Kaido going as far as one shotting him and telling him to stop playing pirate games lol
> 
> When he's a LEGITIMATE top tier we WILL KNOW. And so will the rest of the top tiers


Luffy just laughed at Big Mom this chapter, Big Mom was laughing at Kaido, etc.

Meanwhile, one arc after Invading the territory of a Yonkou and wrecking it, Luffy is about to defeat two Yonkous in one go. Our boy is objectively a Yonkou complete with territory in the New World and a massive fleet working for him.


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## TheOmega (Aug 8, 2020)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> Luffy just laughed at Big Mom this chapter, Big Mom was laughing at Kaido, etc.
> 
> Meanwhile, one arc after Invading the territory of a Yonkou and wrecking it, Luffy is about to defeat two Yonkous in one go. Our boy is objectively a Yonkou complete with territory in the New World and a massive fleet working for him.



Laughed? That man is scared outta his life. He been runnin from that woman for a whole arc. Big Mom laughed the notion of Luffy defeating Kaido and Kaido shows respect to BM as well when he didn't want her to reach Wano.

These people don't respect Luffy or his power at all. And even Luffy recognizes he's not really fucking with them.

Luffy DEFINITELY IS wreaking havoc.NO DOUBT. But he's not doing it by himself. He's got a buncha goons and if he does manage to being down these 2 Yonko it will be a TEAM EFFORT.

He's gonna be comparable to them influencewise after Wano FOR SURE. But that doesn't mean he's gonna be at their INDIVIDUAL POWER LEVEL. He won't. He'll be around Admiral level after this.

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## Grimsley (Aug 8, 2020)

How is this thread creating such debates? Fujitora is no way near as strong as the Yonkos considering his feats against G3 Luffy and Doflamingo’s birdcage. Aokiji and Kizaru were stalled and hurt by Yonko commanders. Both Mom and Kaido wiped the floor with Yonko level characters.

Clearly Yonkos > Admirals but yes the Admirals will probably be defeated in later arcs. In those arcs they probably won’t even be the strongest antagonists in those arcs.

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## Fujitora (Aug 8, 2020)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> Luffy just laughed at Big Mom this chapter, Big Mom was laughing at Kaido, etc.
> 
> Meanwhile, one arc after Invading the territory of a Yonkou and wrecking it, Luffy is about to defeat two Yonkous in one go. Our boy is objectively a Yonkou complete with territory in the New World and a massive fleet working for him.


Laughed at big mom? Lol ok bro, i didnt see him laughing, he just spouted his usuual im gonna beat you all bs that hes been screaming ad nauseum since the begining of the series, he also said to fuji he wont run and would beat them, yet ran from fuji,ran from big mom, ran from big mom again, got manhandled by kaido while saying he would beat him,. Man's full of shit.

Luffy alone isnt doing shit, hes getting help, a lot of it. Dont take his statements as gospell cause theyve been proven wrong several times.


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## Mariko (Aug 8, 2020)

Let's fix this for good fams.

Oda is writing 2 pieces so every reader have his Big Mac.

He'll never clarify the tiers.

Precisely because he knows this is what the readers are waiting for.

Why would he deceive half of his fanbase fixing the debate?

Goda has been vague about tiers since the beginings. For a reason.

This is also why he never really answered seriously these questions.

Tbh tbf, Oda would make a geat politician. Just let the electors -right and left, thinking he's defending their cause, while he's just defending his bank account.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 8, 2020)

Sorry I forgot I was in the alternate OL reality for a second there, my mistake.


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## Canute87 (Aug 8, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> This right here.
> 
> Admiral status is given
> Yonko status is taken
> ...





Admiral status is earned.
Yonkou status is earned.

If you fail  or under perform government will demote your ass.
Big Mom , Kaidou  and Shanks managed to go the better half of a decade  without having to directly engage each other.

Blackbeard became a yonkou without having to fight any  of them.


Yonkou's can't achieve what they do without a powerful crew backing them up. Admiral is a individual accolade.

However when one becomes an admiral his movement is very restricted Yonkou's on the other hand are free and don't give a darn.  However Admirals have WG resources at their hands.  Yonkou's have to depend on backwater people and marriage.


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## Beast (Aug 8, 2020)

Yonko~ Admirals

Akainu and shanks are the strongest of each faction.

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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 8, 2020)

At this point it could not be more obviously settle when it comes to Oda's perception.

Yonkous had the strongest man pre-skip in Whitebeard. But the men who gave him his death wound surpassed him and tip the balance of power to the admirals Favor.

When Akainu became the world strongest man, the Admirals became the most powerful faction.

The way Oda treats Yonkou is nowhere near with as much prestige as the Admirals. Kaido does not even have an official title. The way Oda communicated his creature comment was within the context of rumors in the world of One Piece. Akainu has been gang rush by people who we can all admit are stronger than the scabbards in terms of overall power and literally nothing happened to him.

Akainu
Aokiji
Mihawks
Shanks
Kaido/big mom/Kizaru
Current BB
Fujitora
Greenbull

is the official ranking according to Oda.


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## Freechoice (Aug 8, 2020)

Yonko > Admirals

Not by a huge margin or anything. But enough of a difference to be determined with certainty

No reason to think Admirals are equal, and never has been. Have never seen a reasonable argument as to why.

I can't imagine Oda ever writing a situation where Fujitora is put up against three Yonko in a war.

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## Fujitora (Aug 8, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> Admiral status is earned.
> Yonkou status is earned.
> 
> If you fail  or under perform government will demote your ass.
> ...


Calling several islands and castles backwater people, you salty fam?


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## Fujitora (Aug 8, 2020)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> At this point it could not be more obviously settle when it comes to Oda's perception.
> 
> Yonkous had the strongest man pre-skip in Whitebeard. But the men who gave him his death wound surpassed him and tip the balance of power to the admirals Favor.
> 
> ...


Akainu was frontally attacked, kaido was taken by surprise and while drunk, akainu didnt manage to hurt any of the commanders besides curiel.

Aokiji was taken by surprise by jozu was was bleeding at the mouth.

Kaido was taken by surprise from several people 4-5 of whom are in the same general area as jozu, and left with bleeding at the mouth and a needle prick at the hand.

Therefore according to your impeccable logic: Man gets frontally assaulted while on full alert >Man drunk on low alert since hes having a party in his island surprise attacked by a bunch of strong people. But also Man on high alert taken by surprise and hurt somewhat the same as the drunk man but only by one strong dude> Man drunk on low alert taken by surprise by several people and achieving somehwat similar injuries.

You are truly ahead of us as odas personal confidant, he tells you everything and you relay to us his impenetrable thoughts.


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## Canute87 (Aug 8, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> Calling several islands and castles backwater people, you salty fam?



Fishman Candy  and some seastone nails can't compete with artificial intelligence and lazer beam shooting weapons mon ami.


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## Fujitora (Aug 8, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> Fishman Candy  and some seastone nails can't compete with artificial intelligence and lazer beam shooting weapons mon ami.


Lol, mean you shittyfistas? And apparently those things are worth more than a warship, and the wg brings them, never saw anywhere that admirals can just commandeer them. Last time they came with an admiral there were 5 XD. Litteraly nothing to any vet.


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## Canute87 (Aug 8, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> Lol, mean you shittyfistas? And apparently those things are worth more than a warship, and the wg brings them, never saw anywhere that admirals can just commandeer them. Last time they came with an admiral there were 5 XD. Litteraly nothing to any vet.



And i take it those are worse than artificial DF's 

I'll take that over a dung beetle DF any day.


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## Jaap (Aug 8, 2020)

Freechoice said:


> Yonko > Admirals
> I can't imagine Oda ever writing a situation where Fujitora is put up against three Yonko in a war.


That's a very interesting point actually. Never heard that one before. You're right; it would be unfathomable. Can you imagine BM, Kaido and Shanks sitting on thrones waiting for the attack? Fujitora would sigh, turn around and slink away.

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## Shanks (Aug 9, 2020)

This thread sure moves fast... feels like I read all these arguments before. :eyeroll


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## Vengeance (Aug 9, 2020)

Freechoice said:


> Yonko > Admirals
> 
> Not by a huge margin or anything. But enough of a difference to be determined with certainty
> 
> ...



Yup, reversing roles or imagining Yonkou in certain situations instead of Admirals is actually a very good way to illustrate the general superiority of the former:

- "Don't worry Pops, I take care of Big Mom" - Jozu
- Marco fighting Kaido and even mocking him
- Big Mom and Shanks fought Sabo, Lindbergh and Co. and are currently still in bandages 
- "Don't worry, I will retrieve Doflamingo from Shanks and Big Mom" - Jack
- "If we work together we can defeat him" - Doflamingo about Shanks to his crew

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## Sherlōck (Aug 9, 2020)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Yonkous had the strongest man pre-skip in Whitebeard. But the men who gave him his death wound surpassed him and tip the balance of power to the admirals Favor.



I would say no. 

Laido was the strongest pre-skip. WB was either weakest or 3rd strongest out of the four. 

Now BB has taken WB's place while Akainu after MF & PH climbed up to Laido. 

So, in a way I think the balance doesn't favor any group.


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## Ludi (Aug 9, 2020)

I remember someone saying that "arc after wano Akainu" will mid diff currenr Kaido at worst


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## Mariko (Aug 9, 2020)

Vengeance said:


> Yup, reversing roles or imagining Yonkou in certain situations instead of Admirals is actually a very good way to illustrate the general superiority of the former:
> 
> - "Don't worry Pops, I take care of Big Mom" - Jozu
> - Marco fighting Kaido and even mocking him
> ...







/thread.

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## Freechoice (Aug 9, 2020)

Vengeance said:


> Yup, reversing roles or imagining Yonkou in certain situations instead of Admirals is actually a very good way to illustrate the general superiority of the former:
> 
> - "Don't worry Pops, I take care of Big Mom" - Jozu
> - Marco fighting Kaido and even mocking him
> ...

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## Sherlōck (Aug 9, 2020)

Vengeance said:


> Yup, reversing roles or imagining Yonkou in certain situations instead of Admirals is actually a very good way to illustrate the general superiority of the former:
> 
> - "Don't worry Pops, I take care of Big Mom" - Jozu
> - Marco fighting Kaido and even mocking him
> ...



This is idiotic.


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## Geralt-Singh (Aug 9, 2020)

Imagine Aokiji getting knocked out by a YC2 and ending up chained like a boar
Imagine Kizaru getting thrown in the sea and losing memory from a YC1's attack
Imagine Sakazuki getting trolled by the weak trio

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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Aug 9, 2020)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Imagine Kizaru getting thrown in the sea and losing memory from a YC1's attack


Do you have a concussion?


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## Gokou08 (Aug 9, 2020)

Kylo Ren said:


> Whats headcanon is calling Sabo superior to Katakuri.
> 
> And again you're basing your argument to future events thats why you said potentially. Zoro is potentially stronger than Katakuri too but not at the moment.
> 
> ...



Yonko vs Yonko split the sky, admiral vs admiral permanently change the weather of an entire island, don't forget that admirals still have awakening to show, Oda is keeping that for later


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## xmysticgohanx (Aug 9, 2020)

Vengeance said:


> Yup, reversing roles or imagining Yonkou in certain situations instead of Admirals is actually a very good way to illustrate the general superiority of the former:
> 
> - "Don't worry Pops, I take care of Big Mom" - Jozu
> - Marco fighting Kaido and even mocking him
> ...


 this doesn’t work because you have to assume yonko > Admirals already in order for this to make sense.


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## Flame (Aug 9, 2020)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Imagine Aokiji getting knocked out by a YC2 and ending up chained like a boar
> Imagine Kizaru getting thrown in the sea and losing memory from a YC1's attack
> Imagine Sakazuki getting trolled by the weak trio


Kaido after getting pierced by a bunch of fodders with only like 2 YC3~ level swordsmen


Akainu being slashed by arguably the 2nd strongest YC1 + a swordsman whose abilities have been acknowledged by the WSS himself



One is crying in pain while the other is uninjured and only irritated, but of course you won't see any of them acknowledging that

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## Corax (Aug 9, 2020)

This has moved to the BD for some reason. Though in manga strongest characters are saved for EOS. This means Teach,admirals,Shanks and Mihawk. Out of all yonko only Teach will be relevant during the final war. No way around,not at all. I am already seeing threads like: can EOS Teach solo BM+Kaido? And they will be here and seriously debated,not joke threads.


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## Gokou08 (Aug 9, 2020)

Flame said:


> Kaido after getting pierced by a bunch of fodders with only like 2 YC3~ level swordsmen
> 
> 
> Akainu being slashed by arguably the 2nd strongest YC1 + a swordsman whose abilities have been acknowledged by the WSS himself
> ...


Honestly i view admirals equal to Yonkos, Kaidou screaming was the same type of pain Shanks has when he remembers he scar teach gave him, still i agree with everything, people here seriously underestimate admirals a lot, had WB not take a cheap shot to Akainu, their 2nd battle would be Akainu the winner, plus i swear akainu is one of the few character wich is offense is as good as his defense... People judge the admirals by MF wich is correct but they didn't show half their power there, no CoA 2.0 aside stopping WB Gura, no FS aside from Aokiji manipulating is body and especially no awakening.. Every admiral was 1v1 WB equally, Kizaru didn't take any damage at all, Aokiji just a scratch on the lip, Akainu got a island punch and still got up to fuck things.. I mean


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## Ezekjuninor (Aug 9, 2020)

Flame said:


> Kaido after getting pierced by a bunch of fodders with only like 2 YC3~ level swordsmen



"2 ~YC3 level swordsmen"
Inu, Neko, Ashura, Denjiro, Kawamatsu


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## Ezekjuninor (Aug 9, 2020)

Kaidou>=BM>akainu=Shanks>=Kizaru/Aokiji>=BB/Fujitora

It'll be fun watching Kaidou achieve the best feat in the manga meanwhile admiral fans are still praising Akainu for killing Curiel


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## xmysticgohanx (Aug 9, 2020)

Kaido got injured by that, meanwhile Alainu took a bloodlusted quake punch to the back of the head


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 9, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> Akainu was frontally attacked, kaido was taken by surprise and while drunk, akainu didnt manage to hurt any of the commanders besides curiel.
> 
> Aokiji was taken by surprise by jozu was was bleeding at the mouth.
> 
> ...


 What does not hurting commanders have to do with anything? Akainu has the world's most lethal fruit? Are you really implying he can't hurt random commanders when he killed Whitebeard?

Aokiji 1 v 1 Akainu, who by feat is the world strongest. By feat Aokiji>Yonkous

Denjiro, Minks and Ashura are the only noteworthy fighters in that exchange. Everyone else is close to fodder. It's not even close. There is no way to escape Raizo drawing blood from Kaido. It's better to accept the obvious.

The having a party comment pretty much assures me that you're meming, lol. Kaido is in a party so Raizo level people injuring him make sense. lmao


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## LuckyDucky (Aug 9, 2020)

Warning: this is _not _a hot take -- I don't really care who comes out stronger, but the story has portrayed the Yonko as superior so far. That said, it looks like the admirals will be dealt with in a later arc than Kaido/BM, and so by the law of shōnen I think the circumstances will either be different when it's time to face admirals (1v1 instead of team vs Yonko, for example), or the admirals somehow get powered up (via Vegapunk or an ancient weapon or whatever).

Things could also be totally flipped on their head by the end in such a way that the only admiral on the "bad guy" side is Akainu, in which case him vs Sabo might happen.

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## Fujitora (Aug 9, 2020)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> What does not hurting commanders have to do with anything? Akainu has the world's most lethal fruit? Are you really implying he can't hurt random commanders when he killed Whitebeard?
> 
> Aokiji 1 v 1 Akainu, who by feat is the world strongest. By feat Aokiji>Yonkous
> 
> ...


Random fodder were stabbing wb 

Lol the only top tier allowed to fight another in story by oda for now and win is now the world strongest? fking hilarious.

Youre living up to your name mate,

denjiro/neko/inu/ashura vs Jozu who wins.

You think someone getting taken by suprise, even more so since they are at home and chilling is the same as someone attacked frontally in a war?

Also,kaido said they had the same haki as oden, you know, the one that ignores durability. WB was getting stabbed by fodder, it just makes it so kaidos skin is less relevant to them, but while they can stab him, they did next to no damage. Kiku's stab amounted to a needle prick on his hand and he bled somewhat from the mouth the same as aokiji(lol by feat aokiji>yonko, here is a feat here) who got injured by just one high tier in jozu, while attacked by surprise.

Oh and since im not a troll like you i firmly believe yonko=admirals, they have been lumped together multiple times, anything else is trolling.


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## Fujitora (Aug 9, 2020)

LuckyDucky said:


> Warning: this is _not _a hot take -- I don't really care who comes out stronger, but the story has portrayed the Yonko as superior so far. That said, it looks like the admirals will be dealt with in a later arc than Kaido/BM, and so by the law of shōnen I think the circumstances will either be different when it's time to face admirals (1v1 instead of team vs Yonko, for example), or the admirals somehow get powered up (via Vegapunk or an ancient weapon or whatever).
> 
> Things could also be totally flipped on their head by the end in such a way that the only admiral on the "bad guy" side is Akainu, in which case him vs Sabo might happen.


I think 1vs1s are more likely than some dbz powerups. Oda respects his ceiling, heck not even roger/primebeard were much above the current top tiers.


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## Corax (Aug 10, 2020)

LuckyDucky said:


> Warning: this is _not _a hot take -- I don't really care who comes out stronger, but the story has portrayed the Yonko as superior so far. That said, it looks like the admirals will be dealt with in a later arc than Kaido/BM, and so by the law of shōnen I think the circumstances will either be different when it's time to face admirals (1v1 instead of team vs Yonko, for example), or the admirals somehow get powered up (via Vegapunk or an ancient weapon or whatever).
> 
> Things could also be totally flipped on their head by the end in such a way that the only admiral on the "bad guy" side is Akainu, in which case him vs Sabo might happen.


This doesn't change anything. Powered up Teach and admirals are still Teach and admirals. They'll have to face end Wano Luffy upgraded by awakening,advanced CoC and some kind of EOS power up (will of D or something). Even in 1 on 1 this is a tremendous opponent for either of them.


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## Phantom Thief (Aug 10, 2020)

Yonko are likely a bit stronger than the Admirals on average. They're portrayed as these one-off freaks of nature that can't really be said for the Admirals.

With that noted, I think the Admirals come off as more complete fighters than all the current Yonko with the possible exception of Shanks due to his lack of a DF and freaky physiology. 

It's because of that that I'm actually more excited for Luffy and company's fights against them later in the story than I am for their upcoming battle against Kaido.

Unlike a team battle against Kaido, who basically amounts to a massive tank, I think the Admirals  will be solo fights for the top SHs (Luffy at the very least) in which they'll have to show off all their skills (FS, Ryuo, etc.) to best them in combat and finally solidy themselves amongst the upper echelon of OP fighters - the top tiers so to speak. 

Again, I wanna reiterate that I don't think the gap is that large between either groups and while I do think there's evidence that the Yonko are stronger than the Admirals I won't argue that it's extremely compelling evidence and wouldn't be surprised if something happens later in the story that conclusively shoots down the notion that they're not equal.

Seen some pretty interesting arguments here like the Fujitora MF scenario and the idea that it's extremely hard to imagine the C3 getting clowned like the Yonko have in certain situations.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Vengeance (Aug 10, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> This is idiotic.





xmysticgohanx said:


> this doesn’t work because you have to assume yonko > Admirals already in order for this to make sense.



It's only idiotic from a biased perspective. Works fine from a neutral point of view. Guess I have to elaborate it, once again:

▪  "Don't worry Pops, I take care of Big Mom" - Jozu
Yes, Jozu is not taking care of his old captain's peer who has two feats of effortlessly stomping a YC2 character without the need of any distraction
▪ Marco fighting Kaido and even mocking him
Marco has no business fighting a prime Yonkou on near equal footing when he got overwhelmingly crushed by the Rookie Yonkou with half their bounty (who still refers to Kaido as a monster) Kaido one-shot even a YC1 character.
▪ Big Mom and Shanks fought Sabo, Lindbergh and Co. and are currently still in bandages
Do I really need to explain? Yonkou stomp Sabo and shitstomp characters of Lindbergh's level, straight manga facts
▪  "Don't worry, I will retrieve Doflamingo from Shanks and Big Mom" - Jack
Jack is going to confront two peers of his feared monstrous captain, all on his own? Nice, tell me more.
▪  "If we work together we can defeat him" - Doflamingo about Shanks to his crew
Doflamingo shits his pants when Kaido's wrath was just mentioned, but thinks about confronting and killing Kaido's peer?



Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Imagine Aokiji getting knocked out by a YC2 and ending up chained like a boar
> Imagine Kizaru getting thrown in the sea and losing memory from a YC1's attack
> Imagine Sakazuki getting trolled by the weak trio



Of course you would take Big Mom for a counter. But all the apparent anti-feats of her are the product of her unstable mental condition and  personality quirks and Oda seemingly enjoys using the fat old lady for amusement. But these are not actual, serious combat feats. When it comes to actual combat, she still trumps any admiral: effortlessly stomping two YC2 characters and fighting the strongest in his prime on equal footing.



Anyway, we are back in the same old circle. Yonkou in general having better feats and hype than the Admirals is a fact up to this point. But believe what you want to believe, I don't care enough anymore. Opinions are too deadlocked due to personal favor and long-time association, luckily I don't favor any of the two groups and can consider it with a quite neutral perspective. If Oda put's Fujitora on the same pedestal as Shanks and declares Ryokugyu WSM, fine, I welcome it. But so far the manga has been telling a different story.

Reactions: Like 3


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## TheWiggian (Aug 10, 2020)

More or less equal with exceptions like WB and Garp (who were equal to PK Roger in their prime)



Vengeance said:


> It's only idiotic from a biased perspective. Works fine from a neutral point of view. Guess I have to elaborate it, once again:
> 
> ▪  "Don't worry Pops, I take care of Big Mom" - Jozu
> Yes, Jozu is not taking care of a character who has two feats of effortlessly stomping a YC2 character without the need of any distraction
> ...



If you claim to be neutral, check it out from another angle:

"Don't worry Kaido i take care off the Big Mom crew", knocks them all off the Wano country.
_~ Sincerly King ~
_
Garosei: "The Yonkou could possibly stop Blackbeard or Marco and the WB remnants".

"Don't worry Kaido i take care off the Big Mom crew", knocks them all off the Wano country aswell. _~ Sincerly Marco ~
_
Big Mom fights Queen and gets captured by him, could've been drowned the same way the other prisoners in Udon were", when Aokiji could've one shot him like he did with Jozu.

Marco and Vista sneak sliced Akainu, Jozu sneak tackles Aokiji or Marco kicks Kizaru away and the admirals come out annoyed by it, with a bloody lip and without a single bruise or even dirt on them while the most hyped yonkou especially for his durability gets stabbed by characters like Kiku, Raizo, Kinemon and the others and bleeds, kneeling visibly damaged.


Nice try to claim being neutral but forgetting all those instances, just another liar who tries to jump on a hype train that is alrdy heavily declining in speed.

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## Steven (Aug 10, 2020)

I cant imaging Admirals can 2 shots a Yonko,like WB did with Akainu

Even old Ray was able to hurt Kizaru


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## Shadowlord123 (Aug 10, 2020)

To be honest, after seeing the last chapters I think the Admirals are either equal with the Emperors or slightly weaker than them at worst.

Akainu fought evenly against MF Whitebeard and at no point did he look inferior to him. Whitebeard was old and sick sure, but he was still portrayed to be on the same breath as the other Emperors.
Akainu should be equal to the other Admirals. The difference should be extremely little given how it took him 10 days to defeat Aokiji and Punk Hazard got split in two. One half being lava and the other being ice. There's no reason to assume that it wouldn't be the same for Kizaru and the others thus far.
The Admirals are stated to be the Greatest Military Power of the World Government and the strongest fighters they have. The Yonkos are the Strongest Pirates currently active.
Multiple statements (like Chinjao's) put the Yonkos and the Admirals on the same breath.
Garp and Roger were stated to have come close to kill each other multiple times. One can say that Prime Garp might have been stronger than the Admirals, but Roger was the Pirate King too.
It appears that one needs Ryo in order to pierce Kaido's skin (and maybe by extension Big Mom's?) given the last chapter. I highly doubt that the strongest fighters the World Government has would be unable to use this form of haki. Their devil fruits are absolutely ridiculous as well. It has been stated on the Vivre Cards that Akainu has the highest offensive power/lethality in the verse. Kizaru could very well be a solid candidate to be the fastest character of the verse given his fruit. At the end of the day, I would favour the Yonko more on a 1v1 fight. It would depend on the match-ups and the compatibility between the Yonko and the Admiral, but it wouldn't be anything less than a solid High Diff fight, maybe Extreme.

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## Vengeance (Aug 10, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> "Don't worry Kaido i take care off the Big Mom crew", knocks them all off the Wano country. _~ Sincerly King ~
> 
> "Don't worry Kaido i take care off the Big Mom crew", knocks them all off the Wano country aswell. ~ Sincerly Marco ~ _


_
_
Not an actual fight however. Yonkou one-shot YC1-2 character in a actual, Admirals don't.



TheWiggian said:


> Garosei: "The Yonkou could possibly stop Blackbeard or Marco and the WB remnants".


They said the Yonkou and maybe Marco and Co. can stop Blackbeard. And the weakest Yonkou ended up overwhelmingly defeating Marco, who fought on near equal footing with an admiral.



TheWiggian said:


> Big Mom fights Queen and gets captured by him, could've been drowned the same way the other prisoners in Udon were", when Aokiji could've one shot him like he did with Jozu.



The actual fight was Big Mom one-shotting Queen without the need of distractions, Aokiji failed to do the same with Jozu.



TheWiggian said:


> Marco and Vista sneak sliced Akainu, Jozu sneak tackles Aokiji or Marco kicks Kizaru away and the admirals come out annoyed by it, with a bloody lip and without a single bruise or even dirt on them while the most hyped yonkou especially for his durability gets stabbed by characters like Kiku, Raizo, Kinemon and the others and bleeds, kneeling visibly damaged.



Yes good feats for the admirals, they are clearly portrayed superior to Yonkou commanders. And the Yonkou are far superior, as shown sufficiently.
Kaido got hurt by a combined attack  when he had his guard down due to a for him kinda traumatic experience. We already were at this point once where Yonkou downplayers laughed about Kaido when he drunkenly he got pummeled by Gear 4 Luffy. We all know what happened afterwards.

All in all point remains that the Yonkou are able to one-shot YC1-YC3 without any distractions or are even able to solo their whole crew. Which is a level the admirals haven't shown to be on. Not the mention the hype and titles.



TheWiggian said:


> Nice try to claim being neutral but forgetting all those instances, just another liar who tries to jump on a hype train that is already heavily declining in speed.



I have been defending the superiority of Admirals against Yonkou commanders since I registered here and I still do nowadays, I remember even getting quite some Negs for that back in the days.  Do me a favor and refrain from calling my a liar or bandwagon jumper, thanks.
Now I'm out finally, post what you want. Unless it's insults.

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## TheWiggian (Aug 10, 2020)

Vengeance said:


> Not an actual fight however. Yonkou one-shot YC1-2 character in a actual, Admirals don't.



It's not about just feats but also portrayal and the hype revolving around them. If you just look at one side how can you call yourself neutral?



Vengeance said:


> They said the Yonkou and maybe Marco and Co. can stop Blackbeard. And the weakest Yonkou ended up overwhelmingly defeating Marco, who fought on near equal footing with an admiral.



Yes still Marco and the remnants where basically put into consideration together with the Yonkou, coindcidence? At least Marco fought him while the others were afraid of leaving their paradise despite no yonkou ever invading anothers territory in decades, another part of bad portrayal since they ain't stopping him anymore, even if they tried.



Vengeance said:


> The actual fight was Big Mom one-shotting Queen without the need of distractions, Aokiji failed to do the same with Jozu.



Same can be said about Queen oneshotting Big Mom. Aokiji delivered a clean one shot unlike Big Mom, even Queen did a single clean one.



Vengeance said:


> Yes good feats for the admirals, they are clearly portrayed superior to Yonkou commanders. And the Yonkou are far superior, as shown sufficiently.



Both are superior to YC's, good that we agree on that.



Vengeance said:


> Kaido got hurt by a combined attack  when he had his guard down due to a for him kinda traumatic experience. We already were at this point once where Yonkou downplayers laughed about Kaido when he drunkenly he got pummeled by Gear 4 Luffy. We all know what happened afterwards.



Admirals weren't injured to that point despite being catched offguard by arguably stronger characters. The only one that comes close to that is WB injuring Sakazuki and even that was superficial as we've seen the later chasing after Luffy under the ground and facing off against all the remnants a few moments later.



Vengeance said:


> All in all point remains that the Yonkou are able to one-shot YC1-YC3 without any distractions or are even able to solo their whole crew. Which is a level the admirals haven't shown to be on. Not the mention the hype and titles.



Yea yea we've talked about one shots alrdy. We've seen a Yonkou one shot too and Kaido being close to one shot 20 year ago aswell. Admirals can solo the whole marine organization below the admiral title aswell, what is the hype about it? We expect them to do that just based on their standing, it's nothing special. Hype and titles don't give much credibility. WB was the WSM despite never beating Roger or Garp, Kaido is rumoured to be the strongest creature despite never meeting Lor D. Coast.



Vengeance said:


> I have been defending the superiority of Admirals against Yonkou commanders since I registered here and I still do nowadays, I remember even getting quite some Negs for that back in the days.  Do me a favor and refrain from calling my a liar or bandwagon jumper, thanks.
> Now I'm out finally, post what you want. Unless it's insults.



There are no insults, i called you what you are. You claimed to be neutral while ignoring the negative showcases of the yonkou but listing everything towards the admirals and give no shit about what you did in the past.

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## YellowCosmos (Aug 10, 2020)

Vengeance said:


> All in all point remains that the Yonkou are able to one-shot YC1-YC3 without any distraction



I'm not sure that's fair. I've this seen this claim made far too often with too little argument.
Which of the Yonkou have shown the ability to unequivocally one-shot one of the commanders?
We have Kaidou, who one-shotted Luffy with Thunder Bagua.
Big Mom arguably one-shotted Queen (although he recovered fairly quickly and he was thinking while he was on the ground). Big Mom did not one-shot Jimbei, who is probably not stronger than Katakuri/Marco/King.
Shanks hasn't one-shotted anybody significant.
Mihawk hasn't one-shotted anybody significant. (I think Mihawk is stronger than Shanks by some unknown margin, so I would count it as evidence for this claim if he did).
Whitebeard one-shotted Vice-Admirals Ronse and John Giant, and there is no reason to think they are strong as any of the commanders.
Blackbeard hasn't one-shotted anybody significant.

I'm not saying any of these people would fail to one-shot commanders without the advantage of surprise. I'm just wondering why we're so quick to assume that what Kaido did is the _norm_.

If we made a table like the one below, how would you fill it out and what reasons would you give for filling it out that way?

---------   Whitebeard Kaidou Big Mom Shanks Blackbeard Akainu Kizaru Aokiji Fujitora
Marco
Jozu
Vista
King
Queen
Jack
Katakuri
Smoothie
Cracker
Burgess
Shiryuu

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## Extravlad (Aug 10, 2020)

The biggest hype Shanks has received so far

"He is so strong that he can even fight on par with an Admiral"

 

psa : Before you make mention his rivalry with Mihawk, being number 2 isn't hype

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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Aug 10, 2020)

My usual response to this is that if Admirals really were stronger or equal to the Yonko there wouldn't be any Yonko, there wouldn't be Shibukai and there wouldn't be a balance of power. 

But there is. The lore itself requires Yonko to be one step above the admirals.

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## Extravlad (Aug 10, 2020)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> My usual response to this is that if Admirals really were stronger or equal to the Yonko there wouldn't be any Yonko, there wouldn't be Shibukai and there wouldn't be a balance of power.
> 
> But there is. The lore itself requires Yonko to be one step above the admirals.


Gorosei "Whitebeard is dead DAMN IT, we fucked up the balance in power, better be a New Yonko very soon, we absolutely have 0 intention of getting rid of them for some reason unknown to the readers"

Fans "If there Admirals=Yonko there'd be no Yonko so Yonko must be stronger"



Final Villain Teach > 2nd FV Sakazuki > Kaido/Bigmom

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## Sherlōck (Aug 10, 2020)

Vengeance said:


> It's only idiotic from a biased perspective. Works fine from a neutral point of view.



No, it's not. 

It's biased. 

The fact you are claiming it to be a neutral point of view suggests either you are willfully shitting or you don't know you are biased yourself. 



> Guess I have to elaborate it, once again:
> 
> ▪ "Don't worry Pops, I take care of Big Mom" - Jozu
> 
> Yes, Jozu is not taking care of his old captain's peer who has two feats of effortlessly stomping a YC2 character without the need of any distraction



How do you know Jozu won't talk about BM or Kaido that way? Do you have proof? Did you see them interact? 

Jozu has the feat of stopping an attack from WSS. Queen has a feat of cracking BM's skull & sending her to sleep.

If anything Jozu's peer managed to take care of BM while Jozu failed.



> Marco fighting Kaido and even mocking him
> 
> Marco has no business fighting a prime Yonkou on near equal footing when he got overwhelmingly crushed by the Rookie Yonkou with half their bounty (who still refers to Kaido as a monster) Kaido one-shot even a YC1 character.



It's based on personalities. I can't see Marco mock Akainu but TrollZaru is fair game. 

Also Marco was showing edgy attitude towards Shanks, one of WB's peer. Doesn't mean he can beat him. 

Lets not forget that Kaido's peer Mom was humiliated by both YC1 & YC2 of BP. 



> Big Mom and Shanks fought Sabo, Lindbergh and Co. and are currently still in bandages
> 
> Do I really need to explain? Yonkou stomp Sabo and shitstomp characters of Lindbergh's level, straight manga facts



How do you know Lindbergh's level? 

We don't really know how strong RA commanders are, do we? We also don't know what happened during the fight.



> "Don't worry, I will retrieve Doflamingo from Shanks and Big Mom" - Jack
> 
> Jack is going to confront two peers of his feared monstrous captain, all on his own? Nice, tell me more.



It shows Jack's idiocy. Forget Fujitora (who was known as a monster before he even joined the marines) Sengoku is a character whose strength was respected by Roger. Tsuru is someone Mingo used to run away from constantly. 

The fact that Jack even thought he could retrieve Mingo shows he has mush instead of brain. And to use that as an argument to show Yonko's superiority is facepalm worthy. 



> "If we work together we can defeat him" - Doflamingo about Shanks to his crew
> 
> Doflamingo shits his pants when Kaido's wrath was just mentioned, but thinks about confronting and killing Kaido's peer?



Kaido's wrath comes with his whole crew. Fujitora is alone.

Mingo also tried to ignore Aokiji's warning and as a result he almost died while Kiji didn't even take away his hands from his pockets. 



Now imagine if it was Kaido in Aokiji's shoes. He would straight up murder Mingo for that little stunt but Aokiji acted like nothing happened at all. That's what the difference here is. 

I do understand what's happening here. Yonko & their commanders have delusion of grandeur against Admirals. They talk big but fail to deliver. While YC commanders or lower having same level of showing against Yonko gets swept under the rug. 

Mingo & Jack's statements no matter how idiotic is being taken as a point against Admiral even when everyone knows that they are Grade A level idiot for spouting such nonsense.

Marco mocking Kizaru is a point against Admiral but him telling Shanks to "shut up" is not a point against Yonko.

Not to mention there are a lot of assumptions on how YC would react towards other Yonko while they mocked, fought & humiliated another Yonko.

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## Extravlad (Aug 10, 2020)

Bigmom got clowned by Nami, stopped by Chopper, knocked away by Jinbe, blitzed by Brook and captured by Queen yet you fanboys still have the nerve to claim she got better portrayal than Sakazuki 

And before you claim she was weakened lmao she had nothing comparable to Sakazuki being hit by an island splitting attack and taking an additional earthquake punch to the head from behind by Bloodlusted WSM WB

Yet that same injured Sakazuki made a joke out of Ivankov, Inazuma, Jinbe, Marco, Vista and all the commanders

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## Steven (Aug 10, 2020)

Yet Akainu got outspeeded by Buggy

Marco cockblocked his Magmafist,as well as Jinbei with his bare hands

Broke into sweat when he saw shanks

Needed 10 fucking days to defeat Aokiji

Rob Lucci has higher authority as Akainu

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## Extravlad (Aug 10, 2020)

Acno said:


> Yet Akainu got outspeeded by Buggy


Never happened 



Acno said:


> Marco cockblocked his Magmafist,as well as Jinbei with his bare hands


Marco failed to damage him with a sneak attack then got sent flying, then couldn't save poor Curiel despite fighting Sakazuki with 15 of his buddies



Acno said:


> Broke into sweat when he saw shanks


Never happened he was pissed Sengoku cancelled the party, killing 2 Yonko in one day would've been GLORIOUS otherwise 



Acno said:


> Needed 10 fucking days to defeat Aokiji


Aokiji > Bigmeme too.



Acno said:


> Rob Lucci has higher authority as Akainu


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 10, 2020)

Dellinger said:


> Nobody has ever said that the Yonko would stomp the Admirals. That doesn't mean that they aren't stronger though.
> 
> Portrayal, hype, showings etc all go with them. Yonko had in their ranks the strongest man and creature respectively, Yonko have 2 members who are near impossible to damage, it's Yonko Shanks, the guy that Roger saw as his heir, the that Akainu was sweating against, its Yonko Teach with the 2 fruits etc.
> 
> Admirals on the other hand are the strongest fighters of the WG, clearly a trio of some of the best fighters in the world, clearly monsters with strong fruits that nobody can deal easily with. But as I mentioned above they are no special like the Yonko. They can't one shot a guy on Luffy's level like that, they can't just stand still and not be damaged without resorting to protecting themselves, they can't jump from a sky island and survive.


1) It really doesn’t and more and more this is becoming clear. Whitebeard was a special case, and even then we know that Garp and Sengoku were strong enough to challenge Roger and Whitebeard in their primes.

2) Akainu wasn’t nervous about fighting Shanks. He’d just gone head to head against Whitebeard and after that he went at it with all of his Commanders and Crocodile by himself.

3) The Yonkou aren’t that special. They’re about as strong as the Admirals.

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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 10, 2020)

Gomu said:


> He didn't need to get back right away. He had to be able to dig through the ground before he fell into the ocean, it's that simple. That means he couldn't have been out for too long otherwise he'd have died.
> 
> No, it's a point against Kaido. He was billed as nothing being able to pierce his body 20 years stronger, and the Scabbards did. Even Scabbards from 20 years before with not as much training and experience as Scabbards like Ashura Douji and Denjiro.
> 
> ...


You’re exactly right. The purpose of the Marines is to provide security by policing the seas. Destroying pirate crews is also good, but there first job is to protect people.


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## Gokou08 (Aug 10, 2020)

The people here who thinks the statements about the YC's and Doffy's are a point against Admirals are being delusional.. Jack is just plain stupid, one meteor from Fuji and would be GG..
 Fuji couldn't do anything to Doffy because is CL ties and he knew it, yet Fuji said that he would raise his bounty and even hunt him if necessary..
 Yeah, Jozu said he would take care of Kiji, and 2 minutes later ended up without an arm (cheap shot or not, both used it)..
  Akainu would win against WB if it didn't happen the way it did, he won round 1.. No one in this series, not even Kaido as of yet shown the durability that Akainu has shown, he took it straight up and got up away, fought Marco, beat curiel and more..
 Kizaru wasn't trolled at all, Kizaru trolled both Marco and WB in the war.. Didn't care for Beckman interference as well, wanted to stop kaidou and big mom from meeting..

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## Dunno (Aug 10, 2020)

Vengeance said:


> The actual fight was Big Mom one-shotting Queen without the need of distractions, Aokiji failed to do the same with Jozu.


The actual fight was Big Mom taking Queen out for a couple of seconds, Queen getting up and then taking Big Mom out for longer than that. Big Mom one-shots YCs the same way Apoo one-shots Luffy.


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## Beast (Aug 11, 2020)

Freechoice said:


> Yonko > Admirals
> 
> Not by a huge margin or anything. But enough of a difference to be determined with certainty
> 
> ...


That’s some weird logic, Marines don’t take risks that won’t pay off, they aren’t pirates. Fuji wouldn’t be in a situation to be in a 1v3 against Yonko, nor would that actually be a feat because he would be stomped, and if it was the other way round the yonko would be stomped by 3 Admirals, there is a reason why the WSM and worlds strongest pirate took turns with the admiral 1v1, never more.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Aug 11, 2020)

Anyone saying queen beat bm is a troll

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beast (Aug 11, 2020)

Most of it depends on whether you think MF WB is the strongest yonko or not.


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## TheWiggian (Aug 14, 2020)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Anyone saying queen beat bm is a troll



Agree, good thing we still have King left that soloed her with her whole useless crew.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Aug 14, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Agree, good thing we still have King left that soloed her with her whole useless crew.


Shut up


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## TheWiggian (Aug 14, 2020)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Shut up


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## Unicornsilovethem (Aug 15, 2020)

Extravlad said:


> Gorosei "Whitebeard is dead DAMN IT, we fucked up the balance in power, better be a New Yonko very soon, we absolutely have 0 intention of getting rid of them for some reason unknown to the readers"


They never said that. In fact they are quite happy to ruin the balance, as long as it is ruined in their favor. 

If they had wanted to maintain the balance, they wouldn't have goaded Whitebeard into a war.


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## Extravlad (Aug 15, 2020)

Unicornsilovethem said:


> They never said that. In fact they are quite happy to ruin the balance, as long as it is ruined in their favor.
> 
> If they had wanted to maintain the balance, they wouldn't have goaded Whitebeard into a war.


"The balance between the three great powers has fallen into a terrible state" said the Gorosei after killing Whitebeard

Reactions: Like 1


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## Unicornsilovethem (Aug 15, 2020)

Extravlad said:


> "The balance between the three great powers has fallen into a terrible state" said the Gorosei after killing Whitebeard


Link me so I can tell you how you are misinterpreting them.


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## Fel1x (Aug 15, 2020)

Extravlad said:


> "The balance between the three great powers has fallen into a terrible state" said the Gorosei after killing Whitebeard


stick to Zoro wank


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## TheWiggian (Aug 15, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> stick to Zoro wank



He is right though, with the strongest Yonkou gone and now the removal of shichibukai and possibly 2 other yonks about to be defeated the balance is beyond fucked and marines still seem to reign supreme.


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## AllAboveOne (Aug 17, 2020)

I'm here to save posts of the Yonko wank for when Akainu inevitably beats the shit out of Laido or Big Meme next year

Reactions: Like 1


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