# Norwegian woman imprisoned after reporting her own rape in Dubai



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

> A Dubai court has sentenced a Norwegian woman to 16 months in jail for having sex outside of marriage after she reported being raped, according to news reports from the United Arab Emirates.
> 
> Marte Deborah Dalelv, 24, was convicted Wednesday. She was also found guilty of perjury and of drinking alcohol, the English-language Local reported. The Norway Post said she was 25.
> 
> ...



 as this is hardly the first time this has happened, as noted.

It'll be exciting to see how folks turn this around.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 19, 2013)

Guess it wasn't legitimate.


----------



## wibisana (Jul 19, 2013)

> A Dubai court has sentenced a Norwegian woman to 16 months in jail for having sex outside of marriage after she reported being raped, according to news reports from the United Arab Emirates.



lucky she didn't get stoned to death


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 19, 2013)

Don't travel to muslim countries. Simple as that.


----------



## martryn (Jul 19, 2013)

So if I want to rape someone, the place to do it is in UAE.  Good to know.  Spain for having sex with 13 year olds, UAE for rape... I wonder where I can get my necrophilia kick.


----------



## Gain (Jul 19, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]uWwMSm8EfS8[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]fs6mx_vRDeg[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Blunt (Jul 19, 2013)

Didn't something like this happen with an Australian woman some weeks/months back?

Edit:


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

This has happened at least three other times in the past few years, as indicated in the article:



> In December, a 28-year-old British woman who reported being kidnapped and gang-raped by three men in Dubai was found guilty of drinking alcohol without a license. She was fined $257.
> 
> Three years ago, an Abu Dhabi court sentenced an 18-year-old Emirati woman to a year in prison for illicit sex after she reported that six men had gang-raped her.
> 
> In 2008, an Australian woman managing a United Arab Emirates resort reported being brutally gang-raped while unconscious because she had been drugged. She was convicted of illegal sex outside marriage and sentenced to 11 months in prison, in addition to one month for drinking alcohol.



And in the case of the Australian woman, she was pardoned after 8 months...

...as were her attackers.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 19, 2013)

When in Rome, do as what Romans do. If you are a foreigner, I bet you could gang rape in muslim countries and get away with it, and watch the victim getting imprisoned for reporting rape.


----------



## horsdhaleine (Jul 19, 2013)

If you're unmarried and get pregnant (without being raped), you may get imprisoned too. 

Dubai.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Tourist Protip: Find other places to go to without this arising.


----------



## RyokoForTheWin (Jul 19, 2013)

Four male witnesses required for a rape conviction. That's probably never happened in the history of the middle east.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Well don't worry...the sandstorms will come soon and swallow Dubai whole.


----------



## wibisana (Jul 19, 2013)

RyokoForTheWin said:


> Four male witnesses required for a rape conviction. That's probably never happened in the history of the middle east.



but she get jailed without 4 witnesses


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

RyokoForTheWin said:


> Four male witnesses required for a rape conviction. That's probably never happened in the history of the middle east.



Not unless the rapists themselves are kind enough to act as witnesses because it seems they act in groups - one of the instances had six attackers.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Well at least it wasn't Pakistan...she'd have been put to death for being a Western slut.


----------



## Kruptos (Jul 19, 2013)

Countries like these should be burned or at least have their leaders decapitated.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

Really, don't go to some Islamist shithole for a vacation. These nations are ass-backwards when it comes to the handling of rape among so many other things.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Really, don't go to some Islamist shithole for a vacation. These nations are ass-backwards when it comes to the handling of rape among so many other things.



Then I guess it's a good thing she didn't go there on vacation. At least one of the other victims didn't, either.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 19, 2013)

krory said:


> Then I guess it's a good thing she didn't go there on vacation. At least one of the other victims didn't, either.


The Norwegian woman was on a business trip to that ass backward muslim nation when she was raped and arrested.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> The Norwegian woman was on a business trip to that ass backward muslim nation when she was raped and arrested.



Exactly. Not a vacation.

The Australian woman was managing a resort there.


----------



## Lina Inverse (Jul 19, 2013)

Lina Inverse said:


> why is it everytime I view the cafe in the morning I get news like this



yeeeeeeeup


----------



## Spock (Jul 19, 2013)

Lord, when are the laws going to change. This is just outrageous. What gets me is the frequency of pardoned attackers.


----------



## Arishem (Jul 19, 2013)

This whole godforsaken region is going to get its shit utterly wrecked by climate change, and the awful knuckle dragging nations that infest it deserve every bit of woe that's coming to them.


----------



## Spock (Jul 19, 2013)

Now I'm not sure whats worse, the obsolete-minded people who wish to preserve such horrendous laws, or the people in here who are wishing for a genocide on the entire region. All the while subjecting its people who suffer from those laws to doom.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

Spock said:


> Now I'm not sure whats worse, the obsolete-minded people who wish to preserve such horrendous laws, or the people in here who are wishing for a genocide on the entire region. All the while subjecting its people who suffer from those laws to doom.



Oh good, I wasn't the only one thinking it.


----------



## Arishem (Jul 19, 2013)

Not seeing any calls for genocide in this thread, just some vitriol targeted at garbage institutions that let terrible shit happen and carry on like there aren't cultural issues and even global ones that are going to bite them in the ass. It's really hard to feel any sort of compassion for states that would rather exacerbate such problems instead of addressing them. The fact that innocent masses will suffer is sad and unfortunate, but that is going to happen regardless of global warming without some major shakeups throughout their respective societies. The region's insanely violent resistance to such change combined with imminent, relative to human timescales, devastating climate effects is not going give them the time they need to adapt. 

While I'm not saying they couldn't get their act together, the odds are incredibly slim at present - just look at how clusterfucked their revolutions become - and things will get worse while the rulers drag their feet. I could see the Arab states evolving from their current conditions on a much more rapid schedule than Europe did from the bedlam of the Dark Ages, given a similar environment to advance in, but Mother Earth might deny them the chance. Social progress is a brutal grind under the best circumstances. Pushing it forward in a time of failing crops and evaporating water will be a herculean feat.


----------



## dummy plug (Jul 19, 2013)

i guess the best resolution is avoid that place, since the law wont be changed anytime soon


----------



## wibisana (Jul 19, 2013)

Spock said:


> Lord, when are the laws going to change. This is just outrageous. What gets me is the frequency of pardoned attackers.



didn't your lord is the one who make that sharia law?


----------



## kandaron (Jul 19, 2013)

It's hard to get raped *and* get away with it.


----------



## Casyle (Jul 19, 2013)

wibisana said:


> but she get jailed without 4 witnesses



They mean you need at least 4 adult male witnesses to convict the rapists, not the victim. Doubt that'd even help the victim stay out of the jail, though.


----------



## Vasto Lorde King (Jul 19, 2013)

Guess I made the right fucking decision.


----------



## kluang (Jul 19, 2013)

Good God they can be stupid sometimes


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 19, 2013)

This is why I worry about my friend in Morocco because she's cute and American and it seems like this kind of shit keeps happening in these countries and they don't care enough about foreign relations to do a damn thing about their way of dealing with it. 



martryn said:


> So if I want to rape someone, the place to do it is in UAE.  Good to know.  Spain for having sex with 13 year olds, UAE for rape... I wonder where I can get my necrophilia kick.



You could also go to Congo. That's like an all you can rape buffet. 

And if you want dick girls, Thailand is your destination. We should just start a fucked up travel agency. 



ExoSkel said:


> Don't travel to muslim countries. Simple as that.



Do we even have to say it...Muslims gonna Mus.


----------



## Xyloxi (Jul 19, 2013)

Serves those western WHORES right, who do they think they are, going outside and working as opposed to popping out kids from age 15 onwards?


----------



## Rania (Jul 19, 2013)

It's like a trap here, the westerners come here to drink, party in luxury hotel chains and have the time of their lives doing it but once they're out, it's a modern conservative country that abides by strict Islamic laws.

And unfortunately rape is not uncommon, I blame the Indians/Southeast Asians mostly, since they're the ones usually responsible for it. Even though the law punishes the culprit, the victims  do as well, because it's argued that she has lost her dignity by getting raped and should have never put herself in that position to invite unwelcome attention.

Not that I agree with it, I dress pretty provocatively sometimes and I sure as hell don't want to get raped, so I'm on her side but that is the reality here.


----------



## nore (Jul 19, 2013)

They want be Modern country use modern laws, Not the old laws.

If they want ban prostitution make laws for that.


----------



## Jin-E (Jul 19, 2013)

Yeah, this case have blown up big time in Norway. There's especially hard raging at the woman's employer for sacking her, to such an extent that the company had to shut down it's Facebook site due to the massive amount of flaming it received.


----------



## Al-Yasa (Jul 19, 2013)

poor women. thats some stupid decision.


----------



## martryn (Jul 19, 2013)

> And if you want dick girls, Thailand is your destination. We should just start a fucked up travel agency.



I think there are some very rich individuals who would want to take advantage of such an opportunity.  Politicians, CEOs, athletes...


----------



## Velocity (Jul 19, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> Don't travel to muslim countries. Simple as that.



No freakin' kidding. This sort of thing makes me wonder why anyone would want to go to places like that, at all. You'd have to hire bodyguards to come to the country with you just to be safe.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Velocity said:


> No freakin' kidding. This sort of thing makes me wonder why anyone would want to go to places like that, at all. You'd have to hire bodyguards to come to the country with you just to be safe.



To be corrected from my previous statement, she WAS on business after all, and since it's Dubai there's still a level of maturity to be expected.

However going forward this should prompt companies to rethink their policies and decisions...with regret.

Also, it should also prompt some ladies to rethink their desire to broaden their horizons.


----------



## Sōsuke Aizen (Jul 19, 2013)

For a rape conviction, United Arab Emirates law requires either a *confession* or *four adult male witnesses* to the attack.

 If you're a rapist why on fucking hell would you confess?
 If you're a rapist why would you rape someone in the presence of 4 male witnesses?

Instead of protecting victims, they demonise them and the law is set up to make rape easy. I suppose they have designed it to make wife rapes easy, as it's more than likely there won't be enough male witnesses in the household or bedroom.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Ichi Sagato said:


> Rape happens proportionally higher in western countries than they do in Muslim countries, and we have more than our own fair share of rape charges going unpunished here in the States. The thing I find disconcerting is that the crimes mentioned in the article seem like they were committed because the victims were westerners specifically. Most likely the rapists believed that a western women would be an easy target because a foreigner is less likely to receive justice or support from the community.
> 
> 16 months for being raped. A statute requiring a condition that your rapists be witness to the crime. The harshest sentence possible despite the mitigating facts, as ass backwards as they are. Cafe never fails to appeal to my sense of indignation.



You're talking proportions in regard to populations, right?

I don't see why the twitchy deflective measure is necessary here, Ichi.  Fucked up is fucked up and Dubai has its fair share of master-slave controversies along with a very poor culture of defending women.  Your indignation needs to be reserved for the powers that be back in your home region.


----------



## Linkofone (Jul 19, 2013)

Anybody remember the article about the women getting raped in India thing?


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Ichi Sagato said:


> People like to use foreign events as a justification to ignore the problems they have in their own countries. It's absurdly knee jerk and since there were more than a few posts in this thread expressing a general disdain for Muslim countries as a result of this one article it was important to cite that perspective.
> 
> You know better than that Mael, this dates back to the Indian Rape thread.



Yet at the same time it's incredibly knee-jerk to turn around and be like "Well...IN AMERICA WE HAVE THIS TOO!"

No, we don't.  We have rape kits and actual crisis centers.  The UAE has punishments for those unable to produce four witnesses.  Please don't call an orange an apple and an apple a grapefruit.



> I'm quite happy with our new PRISM overlords, thank you. Do tell me what troubles you though.



It ain't PRISM, that's for sure.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

Mael said:


> You're talking proportions in regard to populations, right?
> 
> I don't see why the twitchy deflective measure is necessary here, Ichi.  Fucked up is fucked up and Dubai has its fair share of master-slave controversies along with a very poor culture of defending women.  Your indignation needs to be reserved for the powers that be back in your home region.



He keeps making that moronic argument in every thread about rape or gangrape in that part of the world. 

First, the western nations have different and far more expansive rape laws than these countries, second is that *report* of rape has a higher occurrence than these nations; particularly because unlike their society, we encourage the victims of rape to report their offense and victims do not have to fear punishment, much like the woman of the story and so many others do, when reporting rape. 

You know how like how Ahmadinejad claimed Iran had no homosexuals, the nature of the argument is the same where denial of existence is (mistakenly) proof of its non-existence. These nations turn a blind eye to rape, which is why when you look at the numbers you have plenty of despotic regimes low on the list. It's well-known when the organizations that conduct figures on rape statistics in these countries that rape is severely underrported and the actual occurrence far higher than the numbers the nations attempt to give.


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Jul 19, 2013)

Dubai is worse than Iran


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Blue_Panter_Ninja said:


> Dubai is worse than Iran



Doubt that.  Iran hangs people for being gay.


----------



## Ichi Sagato (Jul 19, 2013)

Mael said:


> Yet at the same time it's incredibly knee-jerk to turn around and be like "Well...IN AMERICA WE HAVE THIS TOO!"
> 
> No, we don't.  We have rape kits and actual crisis centers.  The UAE has punishments for those unable to produce four witnesses.  Please don't call an orange an apple and an apple a grapefruit.



We also have 80 rape cases that go on and on without investigation over the course of three years in a Montana University. We have a culture of defending small town football jocks for raping students. We a media that also mourns the punishment of rapists at Steubenville and demonizes victims because they were 'sluts'.

But do go on about how "USA is da perfect place".


----------



## ShadowReaper (Jul 19, 2013)

Well it could have been much worse. If she was a muslim and a citizen of UAE, she would have been executed by now.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Ichi Sagato said:


> We also have 80 rape cases that go on and on without investigation over the course of three years in a Montana University. We have a culture of defending small town football jocks for raping students. We a media that also mourns the punishment of rapists at Steubenville and demonizes victims because they were 'sluts'.
> 
> Don't sit here and tell me things are that much better.



In terms of actual treatment for women and the cases, yes we do.  The improvement grows year by year.  Tell me you've got that in Saudi Arabia and the UAE.  Tell me those places have the Sexual Assault and Rape Prevention (SHARP) Program.  Tell me that rape is still a reported subject that has grown in terms of treatment and understanding of the victims.  Do we stone raped women?  Do we imprison them?  Do we leave them to deal with their STDs or traumas at a viral rate to make China or Russia jealous?

No.

What's funny about your Steubenville case is that it was the town that defended them but the rest of the nation condemned.  And you decide your opinion on one idiot woman?

Then we see Arab nations that require male witnesses where most rapes never have witnesses.  Cut the bullshit dude.  If you want to really think the apple is the orange, go the fuck back to the orange.

I never said the US was the perfect place you nimrod.  I said that it still has a better standard of care for victims and a slightly less awful culture with it.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

Ichi Sagato said:


> We also have 80 rape cases that go on and on without investigation over the course of three years in a Montana University. We have a culture of defending small town football jocks for raping students. We a media that also mourns the punishment of rapists at Steubenville and demonizes victims because they were 'sluts'.
> 
> Don't sit here and tell me things are that much better.



Yes it is, because it is all anecdotal, or all isolated. The fact that you attempt to compare MU to the endemic of rape in these parts of the world only show how desperate you are to deflect from the issue in these nations. Rape itself is an issue, but the western nations have made far more headway into reporting, prosecuting, and preventing rape than these Islamic nations.

We acknowledge the issue and the plight of the victim, and the fears many victims have in reporting it. We are not a society that blames the victim or encourages such thinking, and the Steubenville case is a very good example of that; national outrage practically built overnight in the handling of the case and the town's treatment of it, and we don't legally punish victims that report rape, most importantly. Rape victims are more encouraged to report it in the U.S., or the western nations in general, rather than keep silent for fear of legal backlash.

So yes, things here are far better.


----------



## Krippy (Jul 19, 2013)

People (especially women) should never travel to arab countries.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Ichi Sagato said:


> You're in ass hurt denial if you think dealing with the problem of rape is getting any better in this country. There is still a profound lack of understanding for the issue among the majority of the population. Girls are still called out as sluts or whores and rape is an issue that is to often treated as a comical matter. Are these Middle Eastern nations fucked up? Yeah they sure are, but what does that have to do with acknowledging our own problems?
> 
> Right nothing, I never said the US was worse than the Middle East you nimrod. I said that it still had its own problems that weren't unique to the Middle East.
> 
> Oh and I see that a nearby cunt has pitched in and on que to play get backs for past wounds. Are you and Seto amoureux pour toujours now? I guess after the debasement Seto suffered in a not to distant thread he needed to finally partner up with a buddy. I understand you and Seto have gotten real close since over at the Prism thread where you show how much of a government shill you are, but you really do need to shut your face : )



You reek of butthurt man.  I mean seriously you missed my point.  You claimed I said the US was perfect.  I never did.  Also calling us cunts isn't going to really win your argument since you think in terms of some hysterical radfem and that you take one high profile case and apply it to everywhere across America without even acknowledging the consistent effort going into addressing rape.  Your only evidence is anecdotal and weak at best, where the numbers of rapes reported are indeed rising which means women are gaining more confidence and strength in this nation to speak up and against rape while Americans as a whole are confronting rapists more often, even in prison where extra-judicial punishment is handed out.  That's more than I can say about the culture of the Middle East to which you seem so privy to deflect upon and point back at the West in a most ungrateful manner.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

Ichi Sagato said:


> You're in ass hurt denial if you think dealing with the problem of rape is getting any better in this country. There is still a profound lack of understanding for the issue among the majority of the population. Girls are still called out as sluts or whores and rape is an issue that is to often treated as a comical matter. Are these Middle Eastern nations fucked up? Yeah they sure are, but what does that have to do with acknowledging our own problems?



It really has nothing to do with the issue at all, you always try to deflect when the matter of rape in the Islamic world is brought up. Nationally in the U.S. and in the west, as a society and legally, the nation acts on the side of the victim. It is one main reason why report of rape, and being accused of rape has such heavy consequences. 



> Right nothing, I never said the US was worse than the Middle East you nimrod. I said that it still had its own problems that weren't unique to the Middle East.



No, you said the U.S. wasn't any better, but in terms of societal attitude at large, report and the push to report rape, and prosecution of rape the nation far exceeds that of its Islamic counterparts. To say that rape isn't unique to these nations is redundant; because no one is arguing otherwise. 



> Oh and I see that a nearby cunt has pitched in and on que to play get backs for past wounds. Are you and Seto amoureux pour toujours now? I guess after the debasement Seto suffered in a not to distant thread he needed to finally partner up with a buddy. I understand you and Seto have gotten real close since over at the Prism thread where you show how much of a government shill you are, but you really do need to shut your face : )



Predictably, you flip out. As I recall, you did as such in the PRISM thread too and got a little vacation for it.


----------



## Subarashii (Jul 19, 2013)

*MAYBE THE WHOLE WORLD NEEDS TO STOP BEING A MISOGYNISTIC SHIT HOLE*

Fucking arguing about this changes nothing, go petition or contact your representative.  Or you can just promote Western and Middle Eastern rape cultures that do jack shit for rape victims. This event and others like it are abhorrently repugnant.

This is a global issue effecting MEN and WOMEN.

/superpissed


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

ShadowReaper said:


> Well it could have been much worse. If she was a muslim and a citizen of UAE, she would have been executed by now.



And that suddenly makes it okay.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

Ichi Sagato said:


> When you have a culture that is abetting towards rape then you need a strong justice system to address the issue. The issue was never regarding wether or not our institutions can handle problem but the rape culture that is alive and well, despite your enthusiasm. And why do I have to address the progress the nation is making towards rape? That was never the point you dickhead.
> 
> But when you make statements like "youre ungrateful to the nation" you sound like a fucking clown. Shut up please.



Predictably flipping out...The U.S.'s progress and its handling of rape at large defeats your argument, that is why. Especially if you are going to claim that the U.S. is no better than Islamic theocracies. These nations have a culture of rape, victim-blaming, and punishment of the victim on a gross scale that generates a climate where for women especially are at enormous risk as potential offenders are emboldened to commit offenses against them, knowing the laws will punish the victims rather than themselves; and puts the victim through enormous hurdles in reporting rape and prosecution of rape.

We have isolated, pretty much anecdotal incidents of particular groups that feel emboldened to commit such offenses, this is acknowledged. What is also held is that these people are sorely mistaken to think this way. However what is also acknowledged is that the victim is not to be blamed or punished, and that victims of rape or any other kind of sexual assault, as well as any witnesses to these crimes should come forward as soon as possible. The biggest difference with the Islamic theocracies is that western nations and their justice systems take the side of the victim rather than the offender.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Jul 19, 2013)

I should be surprised but the Australian woman case already proves this happens in Dubai.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

> However what is also acknowledged is that the victim is not to be blamed or punished, and that victims of rape or any other kind of sexual assault, as well as any witnesses to these crimes should come forward as soon as possible.



Unless it's in Steubenville.


----------



## Megaharrison (Jul 19, 2013)

Muslims gonna Mus, basically. Hopefully cases like these help expose what the UAE is really like, a truth that they attempt to hide with their oil money.

And lol@Ichi Sagato butthurt. THIS IS OKAY BECAUSE PRISM AND RAPES HAPPEN IN OTHER PLACES! Well guess what, you don't get arrested for being raped in normal civilized countries.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

Ichi Sagato said:


> You know, after I tore you a new asshole in the Ben Carson thread you've sent me nasty little flames on Tumblr and on Facebook after searching me out, PM'ed me incessantly with more flames and no doubt thoroughly searched through my profile for clues as to god knows what. Frankly, its kind of creepy. That is why sir I will pay no attention to your strawmans and resign to the convenience of calling you a flaming cunt.



I don't contact you at all. The only interaction we have is in this section. I don't have a Facebook...

However, predictably you are trying to deflect again, especially considering that your initial argument of the U.S. being no better in its handling of cases of rape when compared to the Islamic relations was clearly faulty, and now you have abandoned any attempt to defend it. Predictably you attempt to flame and defame.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Jesus, Ichi.  Paranoid much?



Megaharrison said:


> Muslims gonna Mus, basically. Hopefully cases like these help expose what the UAE is really like, a truth that they attempt to hide with their oil money.
> 
> And lol@Ichi Sagato butthurt. THIS IS OKAY BECAUSE PRISM AND RAPES HAPPEN IN OTHER PLACES! Well guess what, you don't get arrested for being raped in normal civilized countries.



Careful Mega.  He'll roll out the cunt card on your ass like he has with Seto.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

And he keeps talking about my ass. It's really creepy.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> And he keeps talking about my ass. It's really creepy.



I think he wants it Seto...but for God's sake whatever you do make sure you're not in a small town and have at least four male witnesses.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

I dunno why Mega keeps letting you back, again, as soon as your argument is challenged you flip out and start flaming people. You've really failed to make your point, if you had any, and your initial argument didn't address anything to begin with; it was the typical deflection that seems to occur with you when matters of the Islamic nations are brought up.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Ichi Sagato said:


> But I Lul'ed at the damage control you managed to pull in that thread you started because it appealed to your implied desire to masturbate to the mass killing of Muslims.
> 
> And I lul even more at Mael's phony veneer of moral aptitude when it comes to rape, seeing as there is plenty evidence that he creeped on a 16 year old female member in this Forum and was called out on it by two other members.



Wow you are particularly bitter today, especially at Seto since you've called him cunt like five times already and accuse Mega of fapping to dead Arabs.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

To think, it only took four pages to turn a thread about rape into trying to use homoeroticism as an insult.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Ichi I wouldn't really start talking smack about the homoeroticism since you were so gracious to say this:


Ichi Sagato said:


> Oh and I see that a nearby cunt has pitched in and on que to play get backs for past wounds. Are you and Seto amoureux pour toujours now? I guess after the debasement Seto suffered in a not to distant thread he needed to finally partner up with a buddy. I understand you and Seto have gotten real close since over at the Prism thread where you show how much of a government shill you are, but you really do need to shut your face.



Those in glass houses, Ichi.


----------



## kandaron (Jul 19, 2013)

What the fuck happened here?


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

kandaron said:


> What the fuck happened here?



Stealth Jew attack.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

kandaron said:


> What the fuck happened here?



Victimizing rapists, admonishing homosexuality and defense of ephebophilia.

You know... the usual.


----------



## Sōsuke Aizen (Jul 19, 2013)

I am actually enjoying the flame war going on here, between Mael and Ichi Sagato.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

♚Sōsuke Aizen♚ said:


> I am actually enjoying the flame war going on here, between Mael and Ichi Sagato.



Actually it's been over for some time, and it was more Ichi flipping out at Seto, Mega, and myself.


----------



## Toroxus (Jul 19, 2013)

Heterosexual rape, that's like a double negative. 
Oh sorry, I was just mentioning something relevant.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

"LOL RAPE JOKES, IMMA SO FUNNY

brb gotta go strip in front of little boys in a locker room"


----------



## Sōsuke Aizen (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> It's like a trap here, the westerners come here to drink, party in luxury hotel chains and have the time of their lives doing it but once they're out, it's a modern conservative country that abides by strict Islamic laws.
> 
> And unfortunately rape is not uncommon, I blame the Indians/Southeast Asians mostly, since they're the ones usually responsible for it. Even though the law punishes the culprit, the victims  do as well, because it's argued that she has lost her dignity by getting raped and should have never put herself in that position to invite unwelcome attention.
> 
> Not that I agree with it, *I dress pretty provocatively sometimes and I sure as hell don't want to get raped*, so I'm on her side but that is the reality here.



Lol, I wouldn't use the adjective "provocative". Just say you love the fashion. Avoid saying provocative because it makes it sound like you dress to attract people to you. That will probably be used against you.


----------



## Subarashii (Jul 19, 2013)

Middle eastern provocative =/= western provocative


----------



## WT (Jul 19, 2013)

Seems like the jew's shown his injustice again. Oh well. 

Its to be expected.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Seems like the jew's shown his injustice again. Oh well.
> 
> Its to be expected.



Actually I do believe it was Dream the supermod.  Greenies can't ban..


----------



## WT (Jul 19, 2013)

Mael said:


> Actually I do believe it was Dream the supermod.  Greenies can't ban..



Well, you have mods saying derogatory statements like "Muslims gonna Mus" which can be a tad offensive and then run off to their bosses when the guy insults back.

Still don't get why I still post on this racist forum.

Guess I'm just waiting till Naruto ends.

Oh and my reference to MH as the "jew" is pretty racist but I do that to see how he responds.


----------



## MegaultraHay (Jul 19, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Well, you have mods saying derogatory statements like "Muslims gonna Mus" which can be a tad offensive and then run off to their bosses when the guy insults back.
> 
> Still don't get why I still post on this racist forum.
> 
> ...



Why do people on this forum have such thin skin?


----------



## WT (Jul 19, 2013)

MegaultraHay said:


> Why do people on this forum have such thin skin?



I hate that term.

I have a right to feel insulted.

What I do not have is a right to physically fight back.

Go fuck yourself.


----------



## Toroxus (Jul 19, 2013)

MegaultraHay said:


> Why do people on this forum have such thin skin?



People don't come to a forum to get insulted, that's not an interesting waste of time. So it's very tempting to just ignore or block people who are only passive aggressive trolls. My favorite are the ones that never mention anyone or anything in specific.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Well, you have mods saying derogatory statements like "Muslims gonna Mus" which can be a tad offensive and then run off to their bosses when the guy insults back.



But Muslims _are_ going to Mus.

Just like pedophiles are going to pedo.


----------



## Sōsuke Aizen (Jul 19, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> I hate that term.
> 
> I have a right to feel insulted.
> 
> ...



Now now, while I think Mael's perception of Muslims is probably not completely normal, you have to understand that his hometown has gone through a pretty bad terrorist attack by some pretty fucked up kids who don't deserve to call themselves American. 

And I'm not defending Mael or anything. In this case, saying Dubai's laws are anything like American laws is fucking absurd. I don't get why you defend a Muslim fapper when clearly what he says is illogical and simply untrue. America's rape laws are 10 times better than its Dubai counterpart. Dubai is a shockingly scary place for women.


----------



## WT (Jul 19, 2013)

♚Sōsuke Aizen♚ said:


> Now now, while I think Mael's perception of Muslims is probably not completely normal, you have to understand that his hometown has gone through a pretty bad terrorist attack by some pretty fucked up kids who don't deserve to call themselves American.



You can cry me a fucking river and not one fuck will be given.

Mael's hometown has gone through nothing close to what warzones in Islamic countries have gone through.

Stopped reading there.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Sosuke what the fuck?  It's like you didn't even bother to pay attention to anything I've been saying.

And WT cry me a river.  Your own kind cannot figure out how not to kill each other and how utterly pointless the Shia-Sunni schism is.  Don't talk to us about how rough it is over there when 75-90% of it is internecine.

And krory classy bait as always.



White Tiger said:


> Well, you have mods saying derogatory statements like "Muslims gonna Mus" which can be a tad offensive and then run off to their bosses when the guy insults back.
> 
> Still don't get why I still post on this racist forum.
> 
> ...



Um, well Ichi calling Seto Kaiba a cunt repeatedly isn't really the kind of thing that wouldn't attract a supermod.

It's like you all got a case of the stupid all of a sudden.


----------



## WT (Jul 19, 2013)

Mael said:


> S
> 
> And WT cry me a river.  Your own kind cannot figure out how not to kill each other and how utterly pointless the Shia-Sunni schism is.  Don't talk to us about how rough it is over there when 75-90% of it is internecine.



Yeah, that is pretty pointless and fucked up.



> Um, well Ichi calling Seto Kaiba a cunt repeatedly isn't really the kind of thing that wouldn't attract a supermod.



probably would but think it is a tad justified given that Seto Kaiba was accusing me of pedophillia when I told him that I'm married to someone whose older than I am (yes, that was beyond me as well). Think he was just pissed off at me given the fact that I called him out for being a loner.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Yeah, that is pretty pointless and fucked up.



Exacta.



> probably would but think it is a tad justified given that Seto Kaiba was accusing me of pedophillia when I told him that I'm married to someone whose older than I am (yes, that was beyond me as well). Think he was just pissed off at me given the fact that I called him out for being a loner.



IIRC it was always Mohammed that was the subject of accusation in regards to that.


----------



## WT (Jul 19, 2013)

Mael said:


> IIRC it was always Mohammed that was the subject of accusation in regards to that.



Muhammad was married to someone 15 years older than him for 25 years.

Seto's line of logic was that since I am married to someone older than me, in time, I will also get married to someone younger than me.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

Mael said:


> And krory classy bait as always.



For once, that one wasn't directed at you.

But I can see why you would be confused considering the facts.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Thing is the UAE is a very special case because for all its splendor there's a huge atmosphere of slavery in all of it.



krory said:


> For once, that one wasn't directed at you.
> 
> But I can see why you would be confused considering the facts.



I know it wasn't and I do know who it was for but c'mon it's like an open book.



White Tiger said:


> Muhammad was married to someone 15 years older than him for 25 years.
> 
> Seto's line of logic was that since I am married to someone older than me, in time, I will also get married to someone younger than me.



Well there is a line.  I mean Anna Nicole Smith with that near death guy was just fucking gross, gold-digging aside.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

Mael said:


> I know it wasn't and I do know who it was for but c'mon *it's like an open book*.



You'd be surprised. Not all the minds are fully opened yet.


----------



## Sōsuke Aizen (Jul 19, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> You can cry me a fucking river and not one fuck will be given.
> 
> Mael's hometown has gone through nothing close to what *warzones in Islamic countries have gone through*.
> 
> Stopped reading there.



And what does that have to do with Ichi Sagato? 

@Admins, fucking fix the posting area. I have really weird shit going on here.



White Tiger said:


> Yeah, that is pretty pointless and fucked up.
> 
> probably would but think it is a tad justified given that Seto Kaiba was accusing me of pedophillia when I told him that I'm married to someone whose older than I am (yes, that was beyond me as well). Think he was just pissed off at me given the fact that I called him out for being a loner.



Well that was silly of Seto and you. And if he's lonely, you really should avoid making things worse for him. Also, I personally don't think you're a pedo.


----------



## Syed (Jul 19, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Well, you have mods saying derogatory statements like *"Muslims gonna Mus" *which can be a tad offensive and then run off to their bosses when the guy insults back.
> 
> Still don't get why I still post on this racist forum.
> 
> ...



I hate the Muslims Gonna Mus bullshit. It offends me but hey what can we do?



MegaultraHay said:


> Why do people on this forum have such thin skin?



Imagine if I said ^ (use bro) Gonna Nig whenever a black person did something violent or stupid. Have a thicker skin amirite?!


----------



## Tsuchi (Jul 19, 2013)

Dafuq! kinda backwards country is this?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 19, 2013)

Norwegian Foreigns Affair Minister just said on norwegian news he would do anything possible to get her back safely

He made it clear to his colleague in the Emirates that this isnt acceptable and they might withdraw their ecnomical support too


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

Syed said:


> Imagine if I said ^ (use bro) Gonna Nig whenever a black person did something violent or stupid. Have a thicker skin amirite?!



Actually it sounds more equivalent to "Catholics Gonna Cath" unless it's considered a racial slur to call someone a Muslim now.

If so, what has become the proper term?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 19, 2013)

Also, she said her boss (Who is Swedish appearantly) harassed her several times


----------



## Sōsuke Aizen (Jul 19, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Also, she said her boss (Who is Swedish appearantly) harassed her several times



Maybe it was a set up?


----------



## TSC (Jul 19, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Also, she said her boss (Who is Swedish appearantly) harassed her several times



so basically he sent her there to keep her voice from reporting the his ass, knowing fully well of what happens to wimminz in UAE.




Fun Fact:
UAE was actually going to be one of the planned country pavilions for Epcot when it was going to be made, it they canceled it. Iran was another(but got canceled due to Islamic revolution it had in 1979).


----------



## Syed (Jul 19, 2013)

krory said:


> Actually it sounds more equivalent to "Catholics Gonna Cath" unless it's considered a racial slur to call someone a Muslim now.
> 
> If so, what has become the proper term?



The Muslims Gonna Mus thing is just another version of ^ (use bro) Gonna Nig. Both were most likely started from some White Nationalist website like Stormfront or VNN.

It is not a racial slur. But it is negative due to the origin of this new phrase.


----------



## Subarashii (Jul 19, 2013)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Norwegian Foreigns Affair Minister just said on norwegian news he would do anything possible to get her back safely
> 
> He made it clear to his colleague in the Emirates that this isnt acceptable and they might withdraw their ecnomical support too



That's good to hear, I hope they get her back safely AND withdraw support 



Black Leg Sanji said:


> Also, she said her boss (Who is Swedish appearantly) harassed her several times



Well what the fucking fuck?!  Can this poor woman get no peace!?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

Mael said:


> Exacta.
> 
> 
> 
> IIRC it was always Mohammed that was the subject of accusation in regards to that.



It was about Mohammed, WT's reverence of him as a Muslim, and both of their hypocritical stances in regards to Mohammed's actions and view of homosexuality, and LGBT individuals. Naturally, he blows up when I bring up the matter of his dear prophet. Whom was a rapist, murderer, and p*d*p****.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

p*d*p****, or ephebophile/hebephile?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

krory said:


> p*d*p****, or ephebophile/hebephile?



p*d*p****.


----------



## kandaron (Jul 19, 2013)

krory said:


> p*d*p****, or ephebophile/hebephile?


Depends on the source.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

Prepubescence is icky.


----------



## TSC (Jul 19, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Whom was a rapist, murderer, and p*d*p****.



I heard the stuff why they called him p*d*p**** even though at that time, being married and having sex with 7yr old was normal in order to produce children earlier(back then, people's lives were shorter than they are now and so being 7-12yr woman back then was like an adult at the time). But i read that there only been accusations that they had sex at young age. Never had any factual accounts on it. Aisha was only married to Muhammad at the time of that age. It also stated that Muhammad treat her as his equal, even not minding her speak her mind.

So while by today standards, it's understandable why we would think he's such, but i think you have to look back at what time period that was. It's hard to apply modern morals and culture to that of year 600's.

But him being the murder and rapist I've yet ever read on. Care to explain what this about? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. The only thing I can think of with the murder part is that after his death Islam has a history of violence against it's religious rivals.


----------



## Rania (Jul 19, 2013)

Megaharrison said:


> Muslims gonna Mus, basically. Hopefully cases like these help expose what the UAE is really like, a truth that they attempt to hide with their oil money.
> 
> And lol@Ichi Sagato butthurt. THIS IS OKAY BECAUSE PRISM AND RAPES HAPPEN IN OTHER PLACES! Well guess what, you don't get arrested for being raped in normal civilized countries.



What is UAE really like to you? I'm interested to know what people from the outside think about it. I live here, so, it's all pretty normal to me.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> What is UAE really like to you? I'm interested to know what people from the outside think about it. I live here, so, it's all pretty normal to me.



I would say it's pretty depressing to think anyone could see persecuting and prosecuting rape victims for being raped as "pretty normal"...

...but then again the event just proves it's not only normal there, but expected.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

TSC said:


> I heard the stuff why they called him p*d*p**** even though at that time, being married and having sex with 7yr old was normal in order to produce children earlier(back then, people's lives were shorter than they are now and so being 7-12yr woman back then was like an adult at the time). But i read that there only been accusations that they had sex at young age. Never had any factual accounts on it. Aisha was only married to Muhammad at the time of that age. It also stated that Muhammad treat her as his equal, even not minding her speak her mind.



In 7th century, A.D. and the periods before the average marrying age was around 13-16 years of age for a female. Aisha was molested by Mohammed at 6 up until 9, where Mohammed began to have full intercourse with her. 

Having sex with a 7 year-old for the purpose of producing children no less, was not normal even for that time period. As a matter of fact, it was quite an issue Aisha's marriage as she was still young enough to be permitted to keep her dolls at the time of engagement, and was plainly stated to be a child. It's not accusations, it's her own supposed accounts and every reliable source has her at 6 when she was betrothed to Mohammed, and 9 when he consummated the marriage. Conveniently, Mohammed had a 'divine revelation' that God wanted him to have Aisha, and so his followers accepted this.



> So while by today standards, it's understandable why we would think he's such, but i think you have to look back at what time period that was. It's hard to apply modern morals and culture to that of year 600's.



He's one period, regardless of the time. It doesn't change that fact. Also in regards to the religion, the fact that his actions don't stand the test of time puts a damper on the divine influence and appointment of him as a model man for contemporary society, and by extension his god as a model deity. 



> But him being the murder and rapist I've yet ever read on. Care to explain what this about? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. The only thing I can think of with the murder part is that after his death Islam has a history of violence against it's religious rivals.



He waged various bloody campaigns in his lifetime to secure Islams foothold in the Middle East, and he was known to take slave women for his own sexual pleasure; a twisted concept of 'silence means consent'.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> What is UAE really like to you? I'm interested to know what people from the outside think about it. I live here, so, it's all pretty normal to me.



I'm sure there are fantastic places and very nice people, but I've also heard the horror stories for the migrant workers who go there.


----------



## Spock (Jul 19, 2013)

Arishem said:


> Not seeing any calls for genocide in this thread, just some vitriol targeted at garbage institutions that let terrible shit happen and carry on like there aren't cultural issues and even global ones that are going to bite them in the ass. It's really hard to feel any sort of compassion for states that would rather exacerbate such problems instead of addressing them. The fact that innocent masses will suffer is sad and unfortunate, but that is going to happen regardless of global warming without some major shakeups throughout their respective societies. The region's insanely violent resistance to such change combined with imminent, relative to human timescales, devastating climate effects is not going give them the time they need to adapt.
> 
> While I'm not saying they couldn't get their act together, the odds are incredibly slim at present - just look at how clusterfucked their revolutions become - and things will get worse while the rulers drag their feet. I could see the Arab states evolving from their current conditions on a much more rapid schedule than Europe did from the bedlam of the Dark Ages, given a similar environment to advance in, but Mother Earth might deny them the chance. Social progress is a brutal grind under the best circumstances. Pushing it forward in a time of failing crops and evaporating water will be a herculean feat.



Yah that was directed at you. 

And you seem like you are really anticipating this supposed natural disaster that will wipe out the Middle East in jiffy. Interesting, yet highly disturbing. Your lack of compassion is now understandable. 

And regarding your irrelevant revolution bullshit, name one fucking nation that recovered from years and years of oppression in a year or two. Just one fucking nation that spontaneously progressed socially, economically, politically and culturally. France wasn't certainly the way it is now two years after its first or second revolution. 

I see that basic fucking sociology is not to be expected. Progress and ideological challenge and change is needed tremendously in the Middle East, however your line of thinking will never allow it. 



Megaharrison said:


> Muslims gonna Mus, basically. Hopefully cases like these help expose what the UAE is really like, a truth that they attempt to hide with their oil money.
> 
> And lol@Ichi Sagato butthurt. THIS IS OKAY BECAUSE PRISM AND RAPES HAPPEN IN OTHER PLACES! Well guess what, you don't get arrested for being raped in normal civilized countries.



Get real you pansy, you keep banning Ichi every chance you get for having opposing views than yours and your funny bunch thus preventing him from responding to whatever the fuck you've got to say. Coward.


----------



## Rania (Jul 19, 2013)

krory said:


> I would say it's pretty depressing to think anyone could see persecuting and prosecuting rape victims for being raped as "pretty normal"...
> 
> ...but then again the event just proves it's not only normal there, but expected.



I know it doesn't make it any less depressing to you but the offender is also persecuted, he serves a jail sentence then gets deported. It's not such a bad place to live in if you don't get unlucky with the law.



> I'm sure there are fantastic places and very nice people, but I've also heard the horror stories for the migrant workers who go there.



Every country has it's own serious problems. And from what I know, there has been some improvement in migrant workers living standards, at least compared to their own countries. But to be honest, I think it's straightforward exploitation.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

And here I thought Spock was one that had control of his emotions.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Spock, to be fair, he kept calling me and Seto cunts.


----------



## Rania (Jul 19, 2013)

And people, I live here pretty much the same way I would be in any liberated, democratic, free country in the world and I've never faced any problems *yet.*

I sometimes wear quite slutty (I won't lie) clothes in public and I haven't been raped in the streets. I've been approached by a bunch of dudes who can barely speak english though.


----------



## kandaron (Jul 19, 2013)

TSC said:


> But him being the murder and rapist I've yet ever read on. Care to explain what this about? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. The only thing I can think of with the murder part is that after his death Islam has a history of violence against it's religious rivals.





> _Narrated Abd-Allah ibn Umar: Banu Nadir and Banu Qurayza fought (against the Prophet violating their peace treaty), so the Prophet exiled Bani An-Nadir and allowed Bani Quraiza to remain at their places (in Medina) taking nothing from them till they fought against the Prophet again). He then killed their men and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims, but some of them came to the Prophet and he granted them safety, and they embraced Islam. He exiled all the Jews from Medina. They were the Jews of Banu Qaynuqa, the tribe of Abdullah bin Salam and the Jews of Bani Haritha and all the other Jews of Medina._


Sahih Bukhari 5:59:362.


> _Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi: I was among the captives of Banu Qurayza. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair_


Abu Dawud 38:4390.



Research more, and make your own conclusion. (If you care enough)


----------



## Spock (Jul 19, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> And here I thought Spock was one that had control of his emotions.



I'm the movie version.



Mael said:


> Spock, to be fair, he kept calling me and Seto cunts.



People call each other derogatory terms constantly here, however the Mega hammer never seem to strike them for some reason. If this was one time occurrence I'd not complain but Mega keeps banning Ichi every chance he get. 
Why woud he then delete his first post which did not insult anyone aside from presenting an opposing view, yet still a condemning one. Obviously that offends MH.   

He is driving away all opposing views because he can.


----------



## Syed (Jul 19, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> And here I thought Spock was one that had control of his emotions.



Spock is half human half Vulcan after all.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

Spock said:


> I'm the movie version.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



With people like Al Muudari and White Tiger in particular, that's evidently not true. There's also others that say similarly disgusting things as they do that still float around here. 

Ichi Sagato is just like Smiley, he loses his shit way too fast and way too easy and rarely ever makes a real argument.  It wasn't even a response in to his initial post that he started flipping out. It's expected for debates to get heated, but he doesn't even do that in the first place.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> And people, I live here pretty much the same way I would be in any liberated, democratic, free country in the world and I've never faced any problems *yet.*
> 
> I sometimes wear quite slutty (I won't lie) clothes in public and I haven't been raped in the streets. I've been approached by a bunch of dudes who can barely speak english though.



Hon I don't think it's the clothing or anything that is the subject of controversy but rather the bizarre judicial system by which the UAE operates with rape cases.

@Spock: Thing is Ichi also flies off the handle which attracts more attention.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 19, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Well, you have mods saying derogatory statements like "*Muslims gonna Mus*" which can be a tad offensive and then run off to their bosses when the guy insults back.


I invented that term. People now use it. Props to me. Plus muslims are specific people believing in specific religion. It has noting to do with race. Fucking morons throwing "RACISM" out of context and uses it so frequently.



> Still don't get why I still post on this racist forum.


Because you are a racist as well. Your inner racism is preventing you from stop posting in this forum.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Muslim is a person of religion, not a race.  That'd be like saying papist is a racist term.


----------



## Rania (Jul 19, 2013)

Mael said:


> Hon I don't think it's the clothing or anything that is the subject of controversy but rather the bizarre judicial system by which the UAE operates with rape cases.
> 
> @Spock: Thing is Ichi also flies off the handle which attracts more attention.



My point was if you wanna reduce your chances of getting raped you should wear a veil or cover yourself completely. The way it works here is more like a "I told you so" system, where they have laws against indecent clothing but can't practically implement it because most people who come in the country are just not aware of these laws. So, if you get gang-raped here they partially blame the victim because you sorta asked for it by wearing risque/revealing clothes.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> My point was if you wanna reduce your chances of getting raped you should wear a veil or cover yourself completely. The way it works here is more like a "I told you so" system, where they have laws against indecent clothing but can't practically implement it because most people who come in the country are just not aware of these laws. So, if you get gang-raped here they partially blame the victim because you sorta asked for it by wearing risque/revealing clothes.


She was wearing a business suit with proper business pants and shirts. Exactly what the fuck are you talking about by she was wearing a revealing clothes? She was there for business reason with her other company men and women. She wasnt wearing jeans or shorts or any kind of clothes to be suggested as revealing.

Blame the primitive logic and society of muslim people. Their society clearly didn't evolve along with rest of the world. You know she was raped because she was a western white woman with blonde/brown hair and the goat fucking horny muslim men couldnt resist their hormone level. They most likely got tired of gang raping muslim arab women and decided go for rarely seen western woman.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> My point was if you wanna reduce your chances of getting raped you should wear a veil or cover yourself completely. The way it works here is more like a "I told you so" system, where they have laws against indecent clothing but can't practically implement it because most people who come in the country are just not aware of these laws. So, if you get gang-raped here they partially blame the victim because you sorta asked for it by wearing risque/revealing clothes.



Oh, you're one of _those_.

And I'm surprised people haven't realized Smiley is the troll of all trolls yet.


----------



## Megaharrison (Jul 19, 2013)

Funny how the usual suspects here try to deflect/excuse the story by bitching about me. The delicious butthurt


----------



## Rania (Jul 19, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> She was wearing a business suit with proper business pants and shirts. Exactly what the fuck are you talking about by she was wearing a revealing clothes? She was there for business reason with her other company men and women.
> 
> Blame the primitive logic and society of muslim people. Their society clearly didn't evolve along with rest of the world. You know she was raped because she was a western white woman with blonde/brown hair and the goat fucking horny muslim men couldnt resist their hormone level.



Oh, I see, was her shirt slightly unbuttoned?

Except there's so many western/white women here and they don't get all raped. I think this was just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And another reason why western women are primary targets is because most Muslim men view them as whores/easy.


----------



## Spock (Jul 19, 2013)

Megaharrison said:


> Funny how the usual suspects here try to deflect/excuse the story by bitching about me. The delicious butthurt




Don't get so full of yourself, you are not that special. The supposed "usual" suspects already gave an opinion and commented on the matter thoroughly, unlike you who came and deleted some of their comments. Appearantly now to make it look like deflection


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> My point was if you wanna reduce your chances of getting raped you should wear a veil or cover yourself completely. The way it works here is more like a "I told you so" system, where they have laws against indecent clothing but can't practically implement it because most people who come in the country are just not aware of these laws. So, if you get gang-raped here they partially blame the victim because you sorta asked for it by wearing risque/revealing clothes.



what the fuck.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> Oh, I see, was her shirt slightly unbuttoned?
> 
> Except there's so many western/white women here and they don't get all raped. I think this was just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.


And she was arrested for reporting a rape. This isnt the case of wrong place at the wrong time. This is the case of first world person traveling to 3rd world society of hell hole and getting fucked over.

Just dont travel to that part of assbackward region.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

No Rania has a point.  I know, here, that's not how we view it.  But there, that could be how they view it and it's not like you can force them to immediately adapt that way.  There will always be lecherous guys and girls in every culture and it takes a slow and steady pace to change it from that sort of mindset, even judicial mindset, where the victim shares blame to where the victim is the victim.  I don't like it either but reality is like that and Rania's neck of the woods has that mindset with some people.


----------



## Megaharrison (Jul 19, 2013)

Spock said:


> Don't get so full of yourself, you are not that special. The supposed "usual" suspects already gave an opinion and commented on the matter thoroughly, unlike you who came and deleted some of their comments. Appearantly now to make it look like deflection


----------



## Spock (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> My point was if you wanna reduce your chances of getting raped you should wear a veil or cover yourself completely. The way it works here is more like a "I told you so" system, where they have laws against indecent clothing but can't practically implement it because most people who come in the country are just not aware of these laws. So, if you get gang-raped here they partially blame the victim because you sorta asked for it by wearing risque/revealing clothes.



Are you trying to present the victim-blaming attitude of the society or is this just your beliefs on the matter?

Because quite frankly that's very inaccurate point of view. Do you know that there are hundreds of rape cases in Mecca? A place where everyone is supposed to be all holy and god fearing...and covered? Veiling yourself completely offers zero guarantee. It's a very dangerous train of thought.


----------



## Rania (Jul 19, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> And she was arrested for reporting a rape. This isnt the case of wrong place at the wrong time. This is the case of first world person traveling to 3rd world society of hell hole and getting fucked over.
> 
> Just dont travel to that part of assbackward region.



People come here because it's like paradise to them, but it can also be their worst nightmare. One second it's a blast, with amazing music pumping in the background and patron flowing all over the place, the next you're locked up in some rotten jail somewhere with cockroaches crawling under your feet.


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> People come here because it's like paradise to them, but it can also be their worst nightmare. One second it's a blast, with amazing music pumping in the background and patron flowing all over the place, the next you're locked up in some rotten jail somewhere with cockroaches crawling under your feet.


----------



## Spock (Jul 19, 2013)

Thanks for proving my point, GIF Wario.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> Except there's so many western/white women here and they don't get all raped. I think this was just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
> 
> And another reason why western women are primary targets is because most Muslim men view them as whores/easy.



It would seem that quite a few women are in the "wrong place at the wrong time."

If I had to wager a guess, I'd say the wrong place is the UAE and the wrong time is anytime.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> People come here because it's like paradise to them...



Or because it's part of their _job_. As was the case for at least two of these women.

It's sad when it's to the point you might as well tell someone, "If someone's sending you to the UAE, you might as well quit your job just so you don't get raped."


----------



## Daxter (Jul 19, 2013)

Hey look, the UAE demonstrating how progressive they are; time to build another 7 star hotel.


----------



## Rania (Jul 19, 2013)

Spock said:


> Are you trying to present the victim-blaming attitude of the society or is this just your beliefs on the matter?
> 
> Because quite frankly that's very inaccurate point of view. Do you know that there are hundreds of rape cases in Mecca? A place where everyone is supposed to be all holy and god fearing...and covered? Veiling yourself completely offers zero guarantee. It's a very dangerous train of thought.



I think you guys misunderstood. These aren't my beliefs.

Um, not to offend anybody from Mecca, but I'm sure there are far more cases of men putting their dicks in chickens and other animals than raping women, mainly because it's a sex deprived country that has capital punishment laws on adultery/rape.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 19, 2013)

Daxter said:


> Hey look, the UAE demonstrating how progressive they are; time to build another 7 star hotel.


I know right. I love how the Muslims and others come in this thread acting like this is just about the rape. 

It's more about the fact they put the victim in jail.


----------



## Spock (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> I think you guys misunderstood. These aren't my beliefs.
> 
> Um, not to offend anybody from Mecca, but I'm sure there are far more cases of men putting their dicks in chickens and other animals than raping women, mainly because it's a sex deprived country that has capital punishment laws on adultery/rape.



Ah ok, sry then.


----------



## Megaharrison (Jul 19, 2013)

Spock said:


> Thanks for proving my point, GIF Wario.


----------



## Spock (Jul 19, 2013)

Get a funny one next time.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 19, 2013)

double post


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> People come here because it's like paradise to them, but it can also be their worst nightmare. One second it's a blast, with amazing music pumping in the background and patron flowing all over the place, the next you're locked up in some rotten jail somewhere with cockroaches crawling under your feet.


Nope. Their beliefs are so backwarded, its few centuries behind the rest of the world. It's fucked up, but its the truth. No sane business men or women should go to that assbackward country for any kind of business other than OIL.


----------



## Spock (Jul 19, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> Nope. Their beliefs are so backwarded, its few centuries behind the rest of the world. It's fucked up, but its the truth. No sane business men or women should go to that assbackward country for any kind of business other than OIL.



BAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Businessmen who made a fortune investing in Dubai for reason other than oil will deem you insane.

Lets not mix moral decadence and business activities because often times the line separating them blurs.


----------



## Rania (Jul 19, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> Nope. Their beliefs are so backwarded, its few centuries behind the rest of the world. It's fucked up, but its the truth. No sane business men or women should go to that assbackward country for any kind of business other than OIL.



Fine, you can say that the beliefs are outdated and way behind the rest of the progressive world because they are based on centuries old religious laws, but people are still going to come here...

And if you're one of those skeptics, it wouldn't hurt at all to learn about the laws of the country before you enter it, just to avoid any unwanted surprises.


----------



## OS (Jul 19, 2013)

I like how they get alcohol charges on top of it.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Jul 19, 2013)

Rania said:


> I think you guys misunderstood. These aren't my beliefs.
> 
> Um, not to offend anybody from Mecca, but I'm sure there are far more cases of men putting their dicks in chickens and other animals than raping women, mainly because it's a sex deprived country that has *capital punishment laws on adultery/rape*.



They don't have much to worry about though, if the women who get raped are the ones who are punished. 

Maybe she was drunk and raped herself. The man was totally innocent.



Rania said:


> Fine, you can say that the beliefs are outdated and way behind the rest of the progressive world because they are based on centuries old religious laws, but people are still going to come here...
> 
> And if you're one of those skeptics,* it wouldn't hurt at all to learn about the laws of the country before you enter it, just to avoid any unwanted surprises.*



Rape is an unwanted surprise whether you know it's illegal or not.


----------



## Krory (Jul 19, 2013)

Don't worry, the men in the Australian case were jailed and pardoned after a whole eight months.

So they learned their lesson!

(The rape victim was also pardoned after eight months of her eleven month sentence after being convicted of, well, let's just call it what it is... she was imprisoned for "letting herself be raped.")


----------



## Rania (Jul 19, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> They don't have much to worry about though, if the women who get raped are the ones who are punished.
> 
> Maybe she was drunk and raped herself. The man was totally innocent.
> 
> ...



Not much to worry about? Yeah, definitely, I wouldn't have much to worry about either if I just had my head chopped off.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 19, 2013)

Always nice to see so many bigots on the forum.  If you're willing to blame every citizen of the US for the crimes of the US (i.e. we're all torturers and child murderers), then I guess it's cool for you to blame all of this country or the predominant faith for their screwed up laws.  But no one here is doing it.  Garbage comments like "Muslims gonna Mus" are disgusting and say more about the speaker than about this tragedy or screwed up religious/repressive laws. 

Westerners gonna bomb you, set up some sanctions to starve thousands of your kids, and then talk about how terribly violent and cruel other societies are.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jul 19, 2013)

I'm gonna find an excuse to use this in the future, I swear it.


----------



## Sōsuke Aizen (Jul 19, 2013)

krory said:


> Don't worry, the men in the Australian case were jailed and pardoned after a whole eight months.
> 
> So they learned their lesson!
> 
> (The rape victim was also pardoned after eight months of her eleven month sentence after being convicted of, well, let's just call it what it is... she was imprisoned for "letting herself be raped.")



Wow, the victim served same length prison sentence as the rapists. 

I am not quite sure the Dubai lawmakers understand what rape is. It's forced sex, which means one person didn't consent in anyway; it's a kind of assault like a punch, only worse. They are viewing rape as something that's only sex made public.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 19, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> Always nice to see so many bigots on the forum.  If you're willing to blame every citizen of the US for the crimes of the US (i.e. we're all torturers and child murderers), then I guess it's cool for you to blame all of this country or the predominant faith for their screwed up laws.  But no one here is doing it.  Garbage comments like "Muslims gonna Mus" are disgusting and say more about the speaker than about this tragedy or screwed up religious/repressive laws.
> 
> Westerners gonna bomb you, set up some sanctions to starve thousands of your kids, and then talk about how terribly violent and cruel other societies are.


If you believe that then you're truly part of the problem. Me saying Muslims gonna Mus is much better than letting a rape victim go to jail over bullshit charges. We blame the religion because it's the problem.

And if you haven't noticed there are a lot of people who blame laws in the US for things they do wrong. All these arguments about gun rights, Stand Your Ground, Abortion laws and the like...you think we don't look at our own laws critically?

Muslims as a religion are a target because so many of them defend this bullshit or just stay quiet. You're not in here complaining about them. 

It's the same thing with the Christians who hate gays, us being intolerant of their intolerance doesn't make us bigots. They're still bigots. We're the ones pointing out their sexism (and in many cases their bigotry toward other religions).


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 19, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Huge numbers of Muslims don't believe in these laws, yet you tar all Muslims for them.  Simultaneously, you blame only bad American laws for problems in America, and only weird/crazy Christians for hateful interpretations of Christianity.  The logic you're using to tar all Muslims necessitates that you do the same to ALL US citizens, and ALL Christians, yet you don't because "Muslims" is an "other" group to you and you have no empathy for them.  You see Muslims as a unified whole, all responsible for the worst parts of their group, while rightly categorizing harmful parts of groups you sympathize with  like US citizens and Christians as separate and no reflection on the greater whole of those groups.

And, yes, saying something mean is indeed better than immorally jailing someone.  But the fact that someone is being immorally jailed does not excuse you advocating bigoted language and ideas. (such as "if every Muslim doesn't come out against this, it must mean all Muslims support and are responsible for it!)


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 19, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> Huge numbers of Muslims don't believe in these laws, yet you tar all Muslims for them.  Simultaneously, you blame only bad American laws for problems in America, and only weird/crazy Christians for hateful interpretations of Christianity.  The logic you're using to tar all Muslims necessitates that you do the same to ALL US citizens, and ALL Christians, yet you don't because "Muslims" is an "other" group to you and you have no empathy for them.  You see Muslims as a unified whole, all responsible for the worst parts of their group, while rightly categorizing harmful parts of groups you sympathize with  like US citizens and Christians as separate and no reflection on the greater whole of those groups.
> 
> And, yes, saying something mean is indeed better than immorally jailing someone.  But the fact that someone is being immorally jailed does not excuse you advocating bigoted language and ideas. (such as "if every Muslim doesn't come out against this, it must mean all Muslims support and are responsible for it!)



The US isn't run on religious law, until they let that go we can criticize the fuck out of their religion because it's their system of government too. Don't like that? 

There's an "X" in the upper right corner that will take all your problems away.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 19, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The US isn't run on religious law, until they let that go we can criticize the fuck out of their religion because it's their system of government too. Don't like that?
> 
> There's an "X" in the upper right corner that will take all your problems away.



There are multiple interpretations of every major religion.  So one country or ruler's interpretation of the state religion is not representative of the views of all followers of that religion.(and the UAE is not a democracy, so the people living there aren't directly responsible for any of the laws)  Therefore, when you blame all members of a religion for the worst aspects of the worst interpretations of that religion, you are lying.  Since you obviously don't apply this same standard to any groups you identify with, your statements appear to be bigoted.

Don't like that? Don't talk like a bigot.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 19, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> There are multiple interpretations of every major religion.  So one country or ruler's interpretation of the state religion is not representative of the views of all followers of that religion.(and the UAE is not a democracy, so the people living there aren't directly responsible for any of the laws)  Therefore, when you blame all members of a religion for the worst aspects of the worst interpretations of that religion, you are lying.  Since you obviously don't apply this same standard to any groups you identify with, your statements appear to be bigoted.
> 
> Don't like that? Don't talk like a bigot.



I honestly don't care if you think I'm a bigot for disliking a backwards religion. I talk shit about all kinds of groups I identify with, the difference is that most of those groups don't take their shit this far. Otherwise I wouldn't identify with them. The Muslim religion seems to be about four hundred years or so behind the others at the very least (and that's in general).


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 19, 2013)

Quoting Yahtzee from Zero Punctuation: 



> Although Dubai does probably deserve it more than most places. You know  when a shithead wins the lottery and immediately buys a frozen champagne  sculpture of his own scrotum and pack of Filipino slave boys to hold up  his home shelving units? Well, if that person was a city it would be  Dubai.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 19, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I honestly don't care if you think I'm a bigot for disliking a backwards religion. I talk shit about all kinds of groups I identify with, the difference is that most of those groups don't take their shit this far. Otherwise I wouldn't identify with them. The Muslim religion seems to be about four hundred years or so behind the others at the very least (and that's in general).



The US has waged essentially unending war since we became a super power, killing many millions.  The Catholic Church encouraged and allowed teachings in Africa which led to greater spread of AIDS. (though both of these groups have done many good things with health and education all over the world as well)  Western economies have exploited most of the world, leading to massive wealth disparity which is only now being brought to the West. (so soon we will get to be peasants too! =) ) Capitalism has murdered multiple generations of workers with unsafe working conditions, even when the dangers of coal dust/asbestos/etc. were already widely known.

You wouldn't apply this same standard to any of these groups, but I guess that's because they aren't "backwards."  Your language is standard fare for hate, as you have to find an excuse for yourself as to why "they" are fundamentally different from you.  You could be right about many interpretations of Islam and the execution of it as official policy (state religion is almost always abused, even if it's relatively mild in the form of restrictions on speech against the religion), but that doesn't justify blaming all Muslims for these sorts of atrocities.  And, as I noted, the UAE isn't even a democracy so you'd still be wrong even if you limited your comments to only Muslim inhabitants of the UAE.  I've known many Muslims in my life, and none of them would agree with this sort of law, so I don't see why you desperately want to believe that some hateful or repressive shit is representative of Muslims and Islam as a whole.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 19, 2013)

So fucking true about Dubai owning millions of indentured servants aka slaves. I've heard they take away these poor worker's passports so they can never go back to their own country. Hence either they die building those tall ass towers or just commit suicide. It's a whole different fucking level of slavery in that region.

Like I said, what an ass backward of a country with ass backward society and people.

No one would shed a tear if that region somehow disappeared from from planet.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 19, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> The US has waged essentially unending war since we became a super power, killing many millions.  The Catholic Church encouraged and allowed teachings in Africa which led to greater spread of AIDS. (though both of these groups have done many good things with health and education all over the world as well)  Western economies have exploited most of the world, leading to massive wealth disparity which is only now being brought to the West. (so soon we will get to be peasants too! =) ) Capitalism has murdered multiple generations of workers with unsafe working conditions, even when the dangers of coal dust/asbestos/etc. were already widely known.
> 
> You wouldn't apply this same standard to any of these groups, but I guess that's because they aren't "backwards."  Your language is standard fare for hate, as you have to find an excuse for yourself as to why "they" are fundamentally different from you.  You could be right about many interpretations of Islam and the execution of it as official policy (state religion is almost always abused, even if it's relatively mild in the form of restrictions on speech against the religion), but that doesn't justify blaming all Muslims for these sorts of atrocities.  And, as I noted, the UAE isn't even a democracy so you'd still be wrong even if you limited your comments to only Muslim inhabitants of the UAE.  I've known many Muslims in my life, and none of them would agree with this sort of law, so I don't see why you desperately want to believe that some hateful or repressive shit is representative of Muslims and Islam as a whole.



This is blithering idiocy, all you're doing is making massive assumptions and on top of that misconstruing other arguments. You're not speaking from any sensible standpoint but blind, irrational emotion.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 19, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> So fucking true about Dubai owning millions of indentured servants aka slaves. I've heard they take away these poor worker's passports so they can never go back to their own country. Hence either they die building those tall ass towers or just commit suicide. It's a whole different fucking level of slavery in that region.
> 
> Like I said, what an ass backward of a country with ass backward society and people.
> 
> No one would shed a tear if that region somehow disappeared from from planet.



Actually, I was going to mention this.  Is this action also rationalized through some Islamic teaching, or is it just due to the abusive structure of society and the effective monarch(ies)?  I highly doubt that any large number of Muslims in a relatively developed country like Dubai would agree with forced indentured servitude, so it seems as if a repressive interpretation of their religion might be more due to convenience for the monarchy than any feeling on the part of the people.  (also, unless you're already rich from oil - which you aren't if you're not the head of state or a successful businessman - you and your family will only suffer due to effective slave labor as things that could be "jobs" working for the rich and powerful are already taken by unpaid, formerly migrant prisoners)

I don't think you should be saying that no one would shed a tear if the region disappeared, though.  Even ignoring the loss of life and history, I'm certain a whole bunch of rich people would be devastated if all the oil suddenly disappeared. (haha)  Also it would lead to the collapse of modern industrial society, which could kill billions more in addition to the innocent people in the region who mostly suffer from abusive political systems. (a problem we also have in the west, although theirs is on a different scale)



Seto Kaiba said:


> This is blithering idiocy, all you're doing is making massive assumptions and on top of that misconstruing other arguments. You're not speaking from any sensible standpoint but blind, irrational emotion.



Actually, everything in my first paragraph is undeniable fact.  The only assumptions in that post are in my characterization of CTK's views, although I think it's pretty accurate considering how he maintains that "Muslims gonna Mus" and that they're just backwards by 400 years.  So if you want to call me an idiot, you can disagree with me substantively, otherwise your post appears to be blithering idiocy full of massive assumptions. ;P ;P ;P

And, yes, I am emotional, as I'm not fond of bigots.  Being bigoted against Muslims is in vogue at the moment, so I'll respond harshly if I witness people spreading that hate.  I'll gladly rethink my opinion of someone's flaws if they make it clear they aren't speaking from a biased or bigoted position, but bigots don't do that because they believe their hate is reasonable and acceptable.


----------



## Spock (Jul 19, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> So fucking true about Dubai owning millions of indentured servants aka slaves. I've heard they take away these poor worker's passports so they can never go back to their own country. Hence either they die building those tall ass towers or just commit suicide. It's a whole different fucking level of slavery in that region.
> 
> Like I said, what an ass backward of a country with ass backward society and people.
> 
> No one would shed a tear if that region somehow disappeared from from planet.



Lets solve this with genocide. Yay


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 19, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> Actually, I was going to mention this.  Is this action also rationalized through some Islamic teaching, or is it just due to the abusive structure of society and the effective monarch(ies)?  I highly doubt that any large number of Muslims in a relatively developed country like Dubai would agree with forced indentured servitude, so it seems as if a repressive interpretation of their religion might be more due to convenience for the monarchy than any feeling on the part of the people.  (also, unless you're already rich from oil - which you aren't if you're not the head of state or a successful businessman - you and your family will only suffer due to effective slave labor as things that could be "jobs" working for the rich and powerful are already taken by unpaid, formerly migrant prisoners)
> 
> I don't think you should be saying that no one would shed a tear if the region disappeared, though.  Even ignoring the loss of life and history, I'm certain a whole bunch of rich people would be devastated if all the oil suddenly disappeared. (haha)  Also it would lead to the collapse of modern industrial society, which could kill billions more in addition to the innocent people in the region who mostly suffer from abusive political systems. (a problem we also have in the west, although theirs is on a different scale)
> 
> ...



You're less fond of bigots than rape apologists and victim blamers? 

Awesome.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 19, 2013)

*dum dee dum dum*



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You're less fond of bigots than rape apologists and victim blamers?
> 
> Awesome.



L O L

You win the argument, as it is now obvious there is no one there to argue with.

You quote to me where I said that, or apologize.  From what I can see, you're more fond of bigots than religions and cultures that aren't your own.  The difference between our two statements, of course, is that mine is supported by your actual arguments, whereas yours was just invented to tar me.

Also I can't believe you're such a big fan of murder and theft and zoophilia.  (ok, so now you don't have to apologize) ("Bearfucker, do you need assistance?" I really love Super Troopers)


----------



## kandaron (Jul 19, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> Huge numbers of Muslims don't believe in these laws, yet you tar all Muslims for them.  Simultaneously, you blame only bad American laws for problems in America, and only weird/crazy Christians for hateful interpretations of Christianity.  The logic you're using to tar all Muslims necessitates that you do the same to ALL US citizens, and ALL Christians, yet you don't because "Muslims" is an "other" group to you and you have no empathy for them.  You see Muslims as a unified whole, all responsible for the worst parts of their group, while rightly categorizing harmful parts of groups you sympathize with  like US citizens and Christians as separate and no reflection on the greater whole of those groups.


You really underestimate the effects of religious indoctrination in the absence of freedom of speech.

While not related to rape, here is examples of muslims bigotry:





*Spoiler*: _ 9:35 to 10:05 if you don't have time_ 



[YOUTUBE]vNpmq6Ok-QQ[/YOUTUBE]





*Spoiler*: _taken from the Saudi Ministry of Education Textbooks for Islamic Studies_ 





> _Homosexuality is one of the most disgusting sins and greatest crimes. God did not afflict
> any people with this before [He afflicted] the folk of Lot, and He punished them as He
> punished no one else. It is a vile perversion that goes against sound nature, and it is one
> of the most corrupting and hideous sins._





> _Punishment
> The punishment for homosexuality is death. Both the active and passive participants∗
> are
> to be killed whether or not they have previously had sexual intercourse in the context of a
> ...


----------



## Mael (Jul 19, 2013)

> The punishment for homosexuality is death.



Ain't that right, Iran?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 19, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> L O L
> 
> You win the argument, as it is now obvious there is no one there to argue with.
> 
> ...



I didn't say you apologized. But you came into a thread about someone being raped and got mad because I used mean words.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 19, 2013)

kandaron said:


> You really underestimate the effects of religious indoctrination in the absence of freedom of speech.



That's likely true, as those numbers are very disappointing.  But I still don't think it can justify blaming Muslims as a whole, or Islam as a whole, for abusive laws in repressive monarchies.  Even if the majority of accepting Muslims are in Western countries, those laws are not indicative of a flaw within all Muslims.  Also, I'd be interested to know how those polls are performed. (there may be a social stigma attached to speaking liberally in your response to something that is condemned by Islam, as the state may be listening in/informed and proceed to punish you)  

I also believe that this sort of punishment for being the victim of rape would be less accepted than prohibitions against homosexuality, just as in the West the stigma of rape (largely) faded prior to the stigma of homosexuality.  This is a complicated issue, though, as obviously speaking openly on either of those topics was discouraged in the West for a very very long time (even as many people became understanding or accepting) and that social acceptance/moderation effect won't be able to progress as quickly in a society without relatively free speech.

But I do accept that people can be indoctrinated to believe just about anything, since there are huge examples in the US as well, I just don't think that justifies tarring all Muslims as discriminatory towards women, repressive, or violent.  My experience is obviously limited from living in the US, but none of the large number of Muslims I knew actually believed any of this stuff, in the same way that basically none of the Christians you know believe the nutty stuff in the Bible.


----------



## TSC (Jul 19, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> In 7th century, A.D. and the periods before the average marrying age was around 13-16 years of age for a female. Aisha was molested by Mohammed at 6 up until 9, where Mohammed began to have full intercourse with her.



Ah you are right. I could of thought it was little bit earlier like 9 as oppose to 13-16. Maybe 6 and 7 is way too young. But couldn't remember for sure. Thanks for that correction. The intercourse and molesting part I'm unsure on though. All I read up was that he engage and married her at that age. which probably that itself even was controversial even if they didn't have sex.




Seto Kaiba said:


> Having sex with a 7 year-old for the purpose of producing children no less, was not normal even for that time period. As a matter of fact, it was quite an issue Aisha's marriage as she was still young enough to be permitted to keep her dolls at the time of engagement,



I did read that so you're right on that case.



Seto Kaiba said:


> and was plainly stated to be a child. It's not accusations, it's her own supposed accounts and every reliable source has her at 6 when she was betrothed to Mohammed, and 9 when he consummated the marriage. *Conveniently, Mohammed had a 'divine revelation' that God wanted him to have Aisha, and so his followers accepted this.*


True and proabaly most likely why he got away with it.




Seto Kaiba said:


> He's one period, regardless of the time. It doesn't change that fact. Also in regards to the religion, the fact that his actions don't stand the test of time puts a damper on the divine influence and appointment of him as a model man for contemporary society, and by extension his god as a model deity.




I guess what I was trying ask was that while I was familiar with this issue, just not the specifics on it. I read conflicting stories and so probably wasn't sure which was 100% correct. I thought people made the assumption because people of the fact he married her when she at such young age. That and thought back then in those times it was "normal", as disgusting as it is even now.

However don't get me wrong, do agree, just like the other Abrahamic religions, that Islam is an outdated and pointless religion in this time and era.

All I was trying to point out is that it's hard to make the equivalent of today's time to those of back then as the mindset is completely different back then compared to now. This is why we are angry at them now cause they don't seems to WANT to make changes for the better.





Seto Kaiba said:


> He waged various bloody campaigns in his lifetime to secure Islams foothold in the Middle East, and he was known to take slave women for his own sexual pleasure; a twisted concept of 'silence means consent'.


Ah. Though I though the islamic spread happen after his death during and a little before the middle ages, hence why the Europeans became nervous and decide to fight back. 





kandaron said:


> Sahih Bukhari 5:59:362.
> Abu Dawud 38:4390.
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe I should. But atm not interest in investing too much into now. But thanks anyway.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Ichi Sagato is just like Smiley, he loses his shit way too fast and way too easy and rarely ever makes a real argument.



Nah I think Smiley is just a massive asshole troll. His posts are clearly the types in trying to provoke others with a facetious tone and reverse logic. Like his posts against CTK.



krory said:


> And I'm surprised people haven't realized Smiley is the troll of all trolls yet.



Yea I know he is. his posts are clearly obvious of it.



Megaharrison said:


> Funny how the usual suspects here try to deflect/excuse the story by bitching about me. The delicious butthurt



That's cause you're the evil filthy JEW! Your role will always be: THE BAD GUY!




Mael said:


> Ain't that right, Iran?



Isn't that more like every fucking Muslim ruling country?


----------



## RyokoForTheWin (Jul 19, 2013)

Alright, okay, hold the phone. So.. the Bible is nutty stuff and we're all liars for saying we believe in it now?

The kettle just called. It prefers to be called "Cast Iron American".

But to add something relevant, my friend who I met while in the Navy is now stationed in Dubai. Sent me a picture recently of him holding a thermometer showing over a hundred twenty degrees. Most of the people staying there for reasons other than something work related or not having the option to move away are out of their minds.


----------



## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Jul 20, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> If you believe that then you're truly part of the problem. Me saying Muslims gonna Mus is much better than letting a rape victim go to jail over bullshit charges. We blame the religion because it's the problem.
> 
> And if you haven't noticed there are a lot of people who blame laws in the US for things they do wrong. All these arguments about gun rights, Stand Your Ground, Abortion laws and the like...you think we don't look at our own laws critically?
> 
> ...



They share the culture, so of course they will defend it.

I don't think Islam is solely to blame. The culture itself is infused with so much authoritarianism, conservatism and violence from years of war and dictatorships. The religion itself is just a small part.

I'm fairly confident that if we could swap out Islam fom Christianity, instantly converting millions of muslims in the middle east, the culture would still be violent and "backwards". They'd just interpret the bible in a way that suits them best.

It's hard to say that a religion is "good" or "bad" when their texts are so full of content that "creative" interpreters can pick and chose what they find to best match the message they want to convey.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 20, 2013)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> They share the culture, so of course they will defend it.
> 
> I don't think Islam is solely to blame. The culture itself is infused with so much authoritarianism, conservatism and violence from years of war and dictatorships. The religion itself is just a small part.
> 
> ...



How do you demarcate the 'culture' and the 'religion' when the culture has obviously been shaped and dominated by the religion for well over one thousand years? Religion isn't wholly contained in some benign book as you're portraying it, (using 'benign' hypothetically) but it is the actual *lived* ideology through its followers - in some cases, such as this one, the whole society is constructed around it to the extent that it is governed by laws literally dating from the Medieval era. Now, that doesn't mean you can correctly infer the personal beliefs of all these Muslims from certain actions of their courts and their state. That's true of all non-democratic societies, at the minimum. 

To pretend that religion is some sideshow here is just mealy-mouthed apologism, and entirely unconvincing at that. Their Islamic Law directly results in the *punishment* of women who are victims of horrendous crimes because the religious law is so patriarchal and stupid.


----------



## wibisana (Jul 20, 2013)

> Among those awaiting execution is 40-year-old Satinah binti Jumadi Ahmad, an Indonesian maid convicted of murdering her employer. According to Anis Hidayah, executive director of Indonesian rights group Migrant Care, she was arrested three months after arriving to work in Saudi Arabia in September 2006. Three years later she called her family to tell them she had been sentenced to death. Hidayah said the maid had killed her employer, Noura al-Gharib, during an argument.
> 
> "She was cooking in the kitchen and her employer screamed at her angrily. Her employer grabbed her hair and tried to bang her head into the wall. Satinah defended herself by spontaneously beating her employer with bread dough and struck the nape of her neck and she fell down."
> 
> Other reports say Satinah snapped after she was accused of stealing money and that she had suffered regular abuse from her employer. The victim's family has demanded 10m riyals (?1.6m) in blood money, which would save Satinah. The Indonesian government says it is prepared to make a payment, although the figure it is reported to have offered is considerably lower than that demanded by the family. A moratorium was placed on sending migrant workers to Saudi Arabia after an Indonesian maid was beheaded in 2011.



another example
maids work under Arab abusive employer
Satinah got tortured, defend herself, fight back, kill her employer.
she got beheaded. by the "lawful" righteous Saudi Arabian law. which is Sharia law.
dont tell me not to blame the religion


----------



## Subarashii (Jul 20, 2013)

> A moratorium was placed on sending migrant workers to Saudi Arabia after an Indonesian maid was beheaded in 2011.



If you care for your country people, DON'T SEND THEM TO SAUDI ARABIA


----------



## wibisana (Jul 20, 2013)

Subarashii said:


> If you care for your country people, DON'T SEND THEM TO SAUDI ARABIA



we cant provide decent jobs for them
thank to corrupt govt
that only develop Jakarta
no other area except for mining that sold directly to China


----------



## Krory (Jul 20, 2013)

What in the actual fuck?


----------



## Pilaf (Jul 20, 2013)

Is it ever going to be acceptable among the Left to admit that some countries/cultures are just shitty and morally inferior to others?


----------



## Krory (Jul 20, 2013)

And that makes it okay.

Good to know.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 20, 2013)

krory said:


> And that makes it okay.
> 
> Good to know.



Makes what okay? To acknowledge these countries are more regressive than their western counterparts?


----------



## Subarashii (Jul 20, 2013)

wibisana said:


> we cant provide decent jobs for them
> thank to corrupt govt
> that only develop Jakarta
> no other area except for mining that sold directly to China



Damnit!
Send them to America!  Land of picking fruit for 5 cents a daaaaaaaaaaay 
(not a real estimate)


----------



## Thor (Jul 20, 2013)

What else would you expect from a muslim country??


----------



## kandaron (Jul 20, 2013)

Pilaf said:


> morally inferior


Implying objective morality exist.


----------



## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Jul 20, 2013)

erictheking said:


> How do you demarcate the 'culture' and the 'religion' when the culture has obviously been shaped and dominated by the religion for well over one thousand years? Religion isn't wholly contained in some benign book as you're portraying it, (using 'benign' hypothetically) but it is the actual *lived* ideology through its followers - in some cases, such as this one, the whole society is constructed around it to the extent that it is governed by laws literally dating from the Medieval era. Now, that doesn't mean you can correctly infer the personal beliefs of all these Muslims from certain actions of their courts and their state. That's true of all non-democratic societies, at the minimum.
> 
> To pretend that religion is some sideshow here is just mealy-mouthed apologism, and entirely unconvincing at that. Their Islamic Law directly results in the *punishment* of women who are victims of horrendous crimes because the religious law is so patriarchal and stupid.



The religious message is part of the culture but it is also independant. We can take one religion and "transplant" it elsewhere along with the religious customs, but ultimately what carries religious importance is the rules.

Some people claim, falsely, that the bible is benign. It is not so. The bible is just as "benign" as the quran. The difference is in how the quran and the bible are interpreted.

Currently western culture is fairly non-violent hence why interpretations of the bible rulings are fairly liberal. Look what the Christian Liberation Army is doing in Africa for another interpretation.


----------



## Jagger (Jul 20, 2013)

Jesus Christ, some people in this thread.


----------



## Ceria (Jul 20, 2013)

When are people going to learn that if you report rape in the middle east most likely you're going to end up dead or in jail or at the very worst raped again.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Jul 20, 2013)

This stuff is just sickening. I will never visit any country in the middle east. That place is like a disturbing joke.


----------



## Sanity Check (Jul 20, 2013)

krory said:


> It'll be exciting to see how folks turn this around.



Meanwhile in the UK and America.

*#1*


> Figures show that in 2011, 340 people convicted of grievous bodily harm and eight rapists were handed community service sentences.



*#2* 
Rape someone: community service.
Upload movies: 5 to 10 years.


----------



## Savior (Jul 20, 2013)

Love how people in the west and especially the U.S. always act like they have the high ground on these issues. Religion bashing is the "cool thing" to do.

Maybe look at fixing your own countries first, before bashing others.

20% of American children living in poverty,  2.8 million kids on less than 2$ a day.

But we're supposed to believe the Western countries have everything figured out and everyone else is backwards...

Righttttt


----------



## Krory (Jul 20, 2013)

Love how people try to defend their Pro-Rapist Regime.


----------



## Savior (Jul 20, 2013)

krory said:


> Love how people try to defend their Pro-Rapist Regime.



One incident, means Dubai is pro rape? Good logic.


----------



## Rania (Jul 20, 2013)

The US has some really strange laws too. I read somewhere that in connecticut you can't eat a burger on Sunday, wth.


----------



## Spock (Jul 20, 2013)

Savior said:


> One incident, means Dubai is pro rape? Good logic.



The thing is, it is not just one occurance; it's something deeply ingrained within the laws of not just the UAE but several Middle eastern countries as well. Some people get punished, that's undeniable, however many others do not. 

But you are right in pointing out the unsurprising implication that such pardons of rapists does not occur in "our backyard".


----------



## WT (Jul 20, 2013)

erictheking said:


> To pretend that religion is some sideshow here is just mealy-mouthed apologism, and entirely unconvincing at that. Their Islamic Law directly results in the *punishment* of women who are victims of horrendous crimes because the religious law is so patriarchal and stupid.



During the Prophet's time, punishment was inflicted on the rapist based solely on the evidence provided by the victim. Wa'il ibn Hujr reports of an incident when a woman was raped. Later, when some people came by, she identified and accused the man of raping her. They seized him and brought him to Allah's messenger, who said to the woman, "Go away, for All?h has forgiven you," but of the man who had raped her, he said, "Stone him to death." (Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud)

According to Al-Mawardi, an 11th-century specialist in sharia, if either the victim or a witness kills the perpetrator of rape during the crime, in order to prevent furthering the violence of the act, the killing is permissible and is exempt from the laws of murder and killing.

Its pretty sad that its common only now to blame the victim as an adulterer and punish them for this. 

You are right, there is a blatant problem in these countries and denying this is ridiculous. This needs to be dealt with immediately. Discrimination is common in Dubai and the ones who set the Islamic laws don't adhere to them themselves. Do you really believe the ruling class in Dubai forgo Alcohol, fornication and other forbidden things?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 20, 2013)

Pilaf said:


> Is it ever going to be acceptable among the Left to admit that some countries/cultures are just shitty and morally inferior to others?


The Left has a terrible problem with their White Guilt getting out of control. 



1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Meanwhile in the UK and America.
> 
> *#1*
> 
> ...



In how many of those cases was the woman reporting the rape jailed? 

That's what I thought, shut the fuck up.



Spock said:


> The thing is, it is not just one occurance; it's  something deeply ingrained within the laws of not just the UAE but  several Middle eastern countries as well. Some people get punished,  that's undeniable, however many others do not.
> 
> But you are right in pointing out the unsurprising implication that such  pardons of rapists does not occur in "our backyard".



It's not the pardon that's the problem. We're talking about the fact that she was punished. It's one thing for someone to evade legal repercussion. It's another thing for the victim to be put in jail.


----------



## Sanity Check (Jul 20, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> In how many of those cases was the woman reporting the rape jailed?
> 
> That's what I thought, shut the fuck up.



*Sigh*

You think there's a big difference between the injustice of sentencing convicted rapists to community service, and taking things a step further in imprisoning victims of rape for reporting the crime?

Are you saying its ok to sentence child molestors to  because its not as bad as a story you read about rape in a middle eastern country?


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jul 20, 2013)

I'm surprised that rapists from other countries don't just convert, and move the middle east. Sounds like it would be a paradise for them.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 20, 2013)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> *Sigh*
> 
> You think there's a big difference between the injustice of sentencing convicted rapists to community service, and taking things a step further in imprisoning victims of rape for reporting the crime?



There's a big fucking difference? They sentenced her to prison in a Middle Eastern country. Which for a pretty woman is basically like being sentenced to extra rape. 

Why do you have to say the stupidest shit all of the time? Are you trying to beat some record?

I'm sure at this point this woman would let her rapists go free if she could avoid being imprisoned.


----------



## Sanity Check (Jul 20, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> There's a big fucking difference? They sentenced her to prison in a Middle Eastern country. Which for a pretty woman is basically like being sentenced to extra rape.
> 
> Why do you have to say the stupidest shit all of the time? Are you trying to beat some record?
> 
> I'm sure at this point this woman would let her rapists go free if she could avoid being imprisoned.



So?  Some convicted rapists are being sentenced to community service.  Isn't that a tragedy?

It seems like you're playing some special olympic elitist shit where I'm supposed to pretend my country is perfect and that we're all fucking genius' because we're not as fucked up as some of the ppl living across the pond?

That's pretty sad.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jul 20, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> There's a big fucking difference? They sentenced her to prison in a Middle Eastern country. Which for a pretty woman is basically like being sentenced to extra rape.
> 
> Why do you have to say the stupidest shit all of the time? Are you trying to beat some record?
> 
> I'm sure at this point this woman would let her rapists go free if she could avoid being imprisoned.



Exactly this. This sets a horrible precedent.  

If things are just gonna end up getting worse for you if you report being raped,  why even do it? In the middle east it often just seems better to "grin, and bear it", rather than I dunno.. Get justice?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 20, 2013)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> So?  Some convicted rapists are being sentenced to community service.  Isn't that a tragedy?
> 
> It seems like you're playing some special olympic elitist shit where I'm supposed to pretend my country is perfect and that we're all fucking genius' because we're not as fucked up as some of the ppl living across the pond?
> 
> That's pretty sad.



Yeah it's sad. But that's not what this thread is about. When is the last time you entered a thread and posted on topic. I mean you entered it and made posts on topic consistently and didn't try to deflect from the OP with little criticisms about your personal crusades against whatever. 

I'm sure we'd be hard pressed to find that thread...unless you were the OP. 

I mean you came into the Trayvon Martin thread and tried to say that liberals were looking to ban guns, when everyone told you that wasn't what happened at all you kept arguing against it regardless. 

You seem delusional.


----------



## Xyloxi (Jul 20, 2013)

Normality said:


> This stuff is just sickening. I will never visit any country in the middle east. That place is like a disturbing joke.



You know, I heard there was a country which protected the rights of women and LGBT people in the Middle East and had actually democratically elected leaders. Getting a cheap deal there seems almost impossible though.


----------



## Sanity Check (Jul 20, 2013)

ImperatorMortis said:


> Exactly this. This sets a horrible precedent.



Are you saying convicted rapists in the west being sentenced to community service _isn't_ a horrible precedent?

Child molestor in the united states .

That's _not_ a horrible precedent?



EDIT - Ok, I'm done.  Watevaz.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 20, 2013)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Are you saying convicted rapists in the west being sentenced to community service _isn't_ a horrible precedent?
> 
> Child molestor in the united states .
> 
> That's _not_ a horrible precedent?



Shoo, you're done. Everyone stop responding to him because he just exists to derail threads.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jul 20, 2013)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Are you saying convicted rapists in the west being sentenced to community service _isn't_ a horrible precedent?
> 
> Child molestor .
> 
> That's _not_ a horrible precedent?



Who the fuck is talking about them? I don't give a shit about those guys. What I _do_ give a shit about is people getting fucking arrested(or worse) for reporting rape.

I'm done with you.



Xyloxi said:


> You know, I heard there *was* a country which protected the rights of women and LGBT people in the Middle East and had actually democratically elected leaders. Getting a cheap deal there seems almost impossible though.



"Was"? I assume its been taken over/destroyed by now?


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 20, 2013)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Are you saying convicted rapists in the west being sentenced to community service _isn't_ a horrible precedent?
> 
> Child molestor in the united states .
> 
> ...


I love people trying to defend retarded barbaric islamic laws by comparing to American laws. American judicial system is a crooked system.

Apologists always says they are done, but they ALWAYS comes back later for more posts. Luz.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jul 20, 2013)

You know whats really fucked? Rape statistics will probably go down in these countries. Not because its stopping, but because there will be few people who even bother to report it.


----------



## Sanity Check (Jul 20, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> I love people trying to defend retarded barbaric islamic laws by comparing to American laws. American judicial system is a crooked system.
> 
> Apologists always says they are done, but they ALWAYS comes back later for more posts. Luz.



I didn't defend middle eastern countries imprisoning rape victims.

Only pointed out that the united states is almost as fucked up as the middle east is in its unjust treatment towards victims of sex crimes.

I would bother contending the point more -- if I thought anything I said had a prayer of getting through the "united states bs smells like roses, only the middle easts bs smells bad" wannabe elitist mentality some of you seem to have.


----------



## Altron (Jul 20, 2013)

Muslims gonna mus. Start of a new meme?


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jul 20, 2013)

Rania said:


> The US has some really strange laws too. I read somewhere that in connecticut you can't eat a burger on Sunday, wth.



Yeah, this is in no way comparable.



Altron said:


> Muslims gonna mus. Start of a new meme?



Muslims gonna mus.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 20, 2013)

Muslims gon Mus needs to be a meme.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Muslims gon Mus needs to be a meme.



Bigots gonna bigot


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 20, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> Bigots gonna bigot


It's bigots gonna big. 

Fuck, why is this so hard for some of you?


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It's bigots gonna big.
> 
> Fuck, why is this so hard for some of you?



Actually, I think of bigots as small, pitiful things, frightened of the truth.  So "bigots gonna big" just doesn't sound right, despite making about as much sense as "bigots gonna bigot" since "bigot" isn't an action.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jul 20, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> Actually, I think of bigots as small, pitiful things, frightened of the truth.  So "bigots gonna big" just doesn't sound right, despite making about as much sense as "bigots gonna bigot" since "bigot" isn't an action.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 20, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> Actually, I think of bigots as small, pitiful things, frightened of the truth.  So "bigots gonna big" just doesn't sound right, despite making about as much sense as "bigots gonna bigot" since "bigot" isn't an action.


Mus isn't a word; that's what makes it funny.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Mus isn't a word; that's what makes it funny.



You're very correct, but as I said, "big" is pretty much the last word I would use to refer to a bigot.  They are quite the opposite, otherwise they wouldn't hold so much fear and hate for others.

"The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract."

What's sad is that bigotry against Muslims is currently accepted, so you don't have the intelligence or grace to realize that every hateful thing you say or defend only makes you look like more of a vile fool.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jul 20, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Mus isn't a word; that's what makes it funny.



Actually..

*Mus(noun)*: _"A genus of rodents that is the type of the family Muridae and includes the house mouse (M. musculus) and a few related small forms distinguished by the square-notched tip of the upper incisors as seen in profile" _





)


----------



## Krory (Jul 20, 2013)

Jokes are funniest when someone else doesn't get them.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 20, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> You're very correct, but as I said, "big" is pretty much the last word I would use to refer to a bigot.  They are quite the opposite, otherwise they wouldn't hold so much fear and hate for others.
> 
> "The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract."
> 
> What's sad is that bigotry against Muslims is currently accepted, so you don't have the intelligence or grace to realize that every hateful thing you say or defend only makes you look like more of a vile fool.



I don't hate all Muslims, but I feel like the culture and the religion facilitate the bad ones and a lot of time the good ones don't speak up. 

But go ahead and fight your little crusade. I'm sure the mean things I said about some Muslims in this thread are much more important than some rapists going free.


----------



## Krory (Jul 20, 2013)

Oh, he mad.


----------



## kandaron (Jul 20, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> a lot of time the good ones don't speak up.


For a good reason.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

krory said:


> Oh, he mad.



I'm actually quite glad that you quoted that here, as I can explain why...



krory said:


> Jokes are funniest when someone else doesn't get them.



is so completely incorrect.  The text of my neg to you was sarcastic, in an effort to point out why your claim that "Muslims gonna Mus" is a good joke was incorrect.  Harmful or negative jokes can be some of the most funny, IF they are being stated by someone affiliated with the targeted group or sensitive to their cause.  A person who really believes that the majority of Muslims are violent repressive savages saying "Muslims gonna Mus" isn't funny, because his "joke" is actually just an expression of his true hateful views.  A Muslim saying the same thing (with the correct delivery, and evidence that they don't really believe something so terrible) might make such a statement funny.

And, as I'm sure you've heard before, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.


----------



## Krory (Jul 20, 2013)

It's actually adorable how mad he is. It's like an angry hamster.


----------



## Rania (Jul 20, 2013)

> Yeah, this is in no way comparable.



I was trying to add humor to the fact that laws will differ in each country you visit, to me it sounds ridiculous to make eating a burger for one day in a week illegal but maybe to somebody else living in that country it would make sense.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

krory said:


> It's actually adorable how mad he is. It's like an angry hamster.



Yet you're the one attempting to aggressively bait me in a deniable way, which kind of implies that what I say makes *you* mad. =)  Beyond that, you don't reply to any argument I make, you just attempt to insult me in a group and then "validate" your insult by agreeing with others I've argued with, which is honestly the argumentation of a child.


----------



## Krory (Jul 20, 2013)

Aww, he's so precious. pek


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 20, 2013)

krory said:


> Oh, he mad.



Not cool. Not cool.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

krory said:


> Aww, he's so precious. pek





Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Not cool. Not cool.



You guys should take your comedy act on the road, since you're clearly incapable of making any actual argument for your position other than an ad hominem.

Your 10 - 15 years old level of discourse is humorous, however.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 20, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> You guys should take your comedy act on the road, since you're clearly incapable of making any actual argument for your position other than an ad hominem.
> 
> Your 10 - 15 years old level of discourse is humorous, however.


I'm not making a personal attack at all. I just said not cool. I think you're over reacting.


----------



## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Jul 20, 2013)

Wow I knew about the four witnesses thing from reading a few Arab dudes talk about mooslem laws but damn this is screwed up. What part of rape implies any part of this was wanted and who are they to meddle into what goes in her mouth as far as drinks go? 

Sure, she was in their country and that would put her subject to their own (warped) set of laws but dang.

Both men and women suffer badly in the continent of Arabia. 'cept the guy(s) who got a piece of her ass.


----------



## Revolution (Jul 20, 2013)

She was imprisoned because it is illegal for an unwed woman to be raped by someone who is not her (future) husband.   Shame on her e


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I'm not making a personal attack at all. I just said not cool. I think you're over reacting.



You're right, I'm sorry.  I couldn't tell if "not cool, not cool" was a joke or feigned indignation, as immediately prior to your post I explained how the text of the neg was sarcasm designed to illustrate that "Muslims gonna Mus" wasn't a "joke" that I wasn't understanding.

krory, however, is only arguing through personal attacks, but I was wrong to lump your posts in with those. (although if the "not cool, not cool" is indeed feigned indignation, then it may qualify as well)


----------



## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Jul 20, 2013)

Although I've always dreamed of having a Norwegian wife (or concubine), the 16 months is ridiculous and while I'm no left wing activist this is wrong.


----------



## WT (Jul 20, 2013)

krory said:


> It's actually adorable how mad he is. It's like an angry hamster.



Why wouldn't he be angry? 'Muslims gonna mus' may not mean anything on the face of it but its said in a derogatory way.

Seems like a personal attack. Also its a pretty shitty meme as well. Guess I'm a little butthurt over it as well. Its human nature to get annoyed. You seemed to be rather butt hurt over anything and everything I say.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jul 20, 2013)

If it was a male, or little girl that was raped I wonder what would the authorities have done.


----------



## Krory (Jul 20, 2013)

ImperatorMortis said:


> If it was a male, or little girl that was raped I wonder what would the authorities have done.



Depends on if the little girl was wearing a Hello Kitty t-shirt or bright colors because if so, then that heathen white devil bitch _totally_ had it coming.

If it was a guy, they would've been killed because ewww, they don't want the gay spreading in their GREAT NATION.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Jul 20, 2013)

^ Stone them. Who knows. These countries are just :/


----------



## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Jul 20, 2013)

They'd be jailed for being apostates unless the whole bodies were dressed in turbans.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 20, 2013)

Savior said:


> Love how people in the west and especially the U.S. always act like they have the high ground on these issues. Religion bashing is the "cool thing" to do.
> 
> Maybe look at fixing your own countries first, before bashing others.
> 
> ...





Rania said:


> The US has some really strange laws too. I read somewhere that in connecticut you can't eat a burger on Sunday, wth.



This deflection is pathetic. 

I mean, you have these nations that side with the perpetrator rather than the victim in sexual crimes, especially against women, along with completely barbaric laws based on an oppressive system of religion, and you're going to go on a tangent about another topic entirely? One of which you only know because we acknowledge its existence, and try to do something about? I'd say we're far more progressive than the shitholes littered across the world.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I'm not making a personal attack at all. I just said not cool. I think you're over reacting.



Well, I have to be forced to admit, the average library poster is very...different from the average Cafe poster, and this guy is out of his element.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Well, I have to be forced to admit, the average library poster is very...different from the average Cafe poster, and this guy is out of his element.



lol, I also often post on critical political websites with many trolls and weakly designed or fake arguments in favor of Obama/Bush/whoever is in power, so my style of argument can be a little overly aggressive.  Also, if you expect ridiculously false or biased arguments, it can encourage you to misread others' posts in a negative light.  (which, for example, is why I foolishly assumed "not cool, not cool" was feigned indignation to "tar" me as opposed to basically a joke)


----------



## Mael (Jul 20, 2013)

Savior said:


> Love how people in the west and especially the U.S. always act like they have the high ground on these issues. Religion bashing is the "cool thing" to do.
> 
> Maybe look at fixing your own countries first, before bashing others.
> 
> ...



This is such a cop-out.  This is perhaps the coppiest of copping-out.

You have the stats for these claims and secondly, wherever you're from and I'm guessing Russia or Asia, you too are in no form to talk.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

Mael said:


> This is such a cop-out.  This is perhaps the coppiest of copping-out.
> 
> You have the stats for these claims and secondly, wherever you're from and I'm guessing Russia or Asia, you too are in no form to talk.




There are some facts on childhood poverty in the US.  The $2 per day number sounds more like a worldwide stat, though.

I would say that a better argument against the quality of US justice is that we imprison more people than any other country in the world, and the huge class and race bias in who we imprison.  Here's a (now old) ACLU fact sheet on how the US accounts for 5% of the world population while having more than 25% of the world's prisoners.



Obviously none of this excuses horrible laws or abuses in other countries, but the US has some serious problems of our own, as we regularly wage aggressive (illegal) war, imprison the largest portion of our population in the entire world, still execute when most nations have abandoned the practice as cruel, regularly practice solitary confinement (which is cruel and in many cases amounts to torture), have a bunch of cops and citizens with guns and itchy trigger fingers, and continuing large problems with racism.  Our illegal drone bombings and past economic sanctions have led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent children in places like Iraq.  Many of these actions are in violation of both our Constitution and our signed treaties, both of which are intended to be supreme above other laws within our system of government.

As a nation we demand "appropriate" behaviors from other nations that we are unwilling to practice ourselves, as recently shown by ex-CIA Italy branch chief Robert Lady getting happily sent back to the US after being captured in Panama, despite having been (along with 24 others that we continue to protect) tried and convicted in absentia (to several years imprisonment, I believe) in Italy for the war crime of illegal rendition for torture.

Surely none of this excuses the crimes or bad laws of other nations, but it does make Americans (and Westerners in general) who say things like "Muslims gonna Mus" (about travesties like this woman's imprisonment) look foolish or biased, as America is hardly exempt from our share of terrible actions and abuses of justice.


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jul 20, 2013)

people gonna people

am I PCkawaiidesune~~~


----------



## Mael (Jul 20, 2013)

Then where the fuck are you, with this logic, when China pulls out that lulz report?

Where are you on the North Korean articles?

My point is that guess what?  There's a fucking sliding scale of fucked up and those who are even a little better off do get that ability to tell others to shape up.  By all your fucking logic, it's like nobody could tell the Hutus to stop killing Tutsis because they could say OH WELL CHECK UR PRIVILEGE AND BACKYARD!  That's bullshit...complete and utter bullshit...and if my citizens are going to get raped in India, Pakistan, the UAE, or wherever and have a judicial system that punishes THEM for being women or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time then fuck you I'm going to tell them how messed up they are, poverty level or not.

By your logic, nobody can say a thing about Pakistan, a country so governmentally fucked up that it makes you envy Somalia.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 20, 2013)

If you haven't noticed, we report on many of these matters ourselves. A lot of these numbers are only public knowledge because it's something to be acknowledged. A good example of this, very much related to this topic is that of rape. If you seriously believed the numbers places like Saudi Arabia, Iran, and North Korea release, there is virtually no rape, crime, poverty, and everyone can read. 

No one ever said the west or the U.S. was perfect, it's a moronic strawman these apologists go after when they can't defend shitholes like you'd find in the Middle East. We have our problems, but to act like they are the same or have the same gravity here as they would in those other places is pretty dumb. 

The Iraq War was an illegal war, and about the only illegal one we've conducted. Every time something happens in the world, like say a natural disaster however, the international community badgers the U.S. about how it needs to bail these nations out. As a matter of fact, to these developing and third-world countries we provide enormous aid. You cannot demand such support and then cry foul when the U.S. expands its foothold in these areas. Collateral damage is a consequence of war or any other military confrontation but it is not desired. However, these nations are incredibly unstable, with very dangerous elements in their society, and something has to be done to contain it or it will leak well beyond their borders or continue to do so.

At the end of the day it's just pathetic deflection, because whatever problems we have we really are a far cry from the Islamic theocracies in North Africa and the Middle East.


----------



## Mael (Jul 20, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> If you haven't noticed, we report on many of these matters ourselves. No one ever said the west or the U.S. was perfect, it's a moronic strawman these apologists go after when they can't defend shitholes like you'd find in the Middle East. We have our problems, but to act like they are the same or have the same gravity here as they would in those other places is pretty dumb.
> 
> The Iraq War was an illegal war, and about the only illegal one we've conducted. Every time something happens in the world, like say a natural disaster, the international community badgers the U.S. about how it needs to bail these nations out. As a matter of fact, to these developing and third-world countries we provide enormous aid. You cannot demand such support and then cry foul when the U.S. expands its foothold in these areas.
> 
> At the end of the day it's just pathetic deflection, because whatever problems we have we really are a far cry from the Islamic theocracies in North Africa and the Middle East.



Remember Seto, money talks but no one wants to listen to the one with the cash.

And before anyone references China, please look at how they obtained it and who really has it...nowhere as spread out as Mao would think.  Plus their money is mostly through loans and well...Chinese economy is struggling too.

But wait Savior I can't talk about China without my own back yard cleaned up right?


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

The main reason that people criticize the US more strongly is because we're supposed to have higher ideals and standards than places like China and Saudi Arabia and the UAE.  No one is suggesting that the US is a worse place to live than some theocratic monarchy that punishes you for showing your leg, or having a drink, or being the victim of an assault, but the US also has a far greater impact on the world.  At the present time, much of the US' impact on the world is negative through surveillance, torture, drone assassinations, and endless war against "terrorism" (which is essentially the real world version of the endless war with everchanging enemies from 1984).  We also fund humanitarian organizations and offer a lot of aid to suffering areas, although people from those areas would argue that neoliberal governmental and economic policies have created their plight in the first place. (i.e. the US and associated powers are largely responsible for the suffering in worse areas of the world, due to our past actions and current policies)

So no one is suggesting that the US is worse than a country that executes you for being raped, but once you start saying that everyone from X area is awful because of these policies (and this is in a theocracy with a harsh interpretation of their religion, on top of a monarchy, so no one other than the rulers in the area can truly be said to be responsible for these atrocities), then you must apply that same standard to the US and allies.  If all Muslims are responsible for repressive dictatorships in their lands (most of which were set up or fostered by past American and European actions), then all Americans are responsible for drone bombings of children and torture and aggressive war.  To take it even further, Americans and Europeans ostensibly have democracies which would allow them to halt these policies, yet we do not, while the Muslims that will be condemned so harshly are living under dictatorships and could only change their laws through bloody revolution. (although, as Jimmy Carter just said to Der Speigel, the US does not currently have a functional democracy)

Basically, you can talk about the flaws of other regions as much as you like, but to be rational, you must apply those same standards to the actions of your own country.  You can't say "well this horrible thing they did is TRULY horrible, but the horrible things we do aren't that horrible at all, and furthermore their horrible things are indicative of them as people whereas our horrible things are just small mistakes" without showing your biased or nationalistic sensibilities.


----------



## Mael (Jul 20, 2013)

> You can't say "well this horrible thing they did is TRULY horrible, but the horrible things we do aren't that horrible at all, and furthermore their horrible things are indicative of them as people whereas our horrible things are just small mistakes"



But nobody is saying that they're not horrible.  That's the thing.  We're stating how shit is worse elsewhere even if we have an issue to address and that our culture is evolving while some others regress or stagnate, case in point Pakistan.


----------



## TSC (Jul 20, 2013)

Mael said:


> My point is that guess what?  There's a fucking sliding scale of fucked up and those who are even a little better off do get that ability to tell others to shape up.  By all your fucking logic, it's like nobody could tell the Hutus to stop killing Tutsis because they could say OH WELL CHECK UR PRIVILEGE AND BACKYARD!  That's bullshit...complete and utter bullshit...and if my citizens are going to get raped in India, Pakistan, the UAE, or wherever and have a judicial system that punishes THEM for being women or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time then fuck you I'm going to tell them how messed up they are, poverty level or not.
> 
> By your logic, nobody can say a thing about Pakistan, a country so governmentally fucked up that it makes you envy Somalia.



Pakistan is worse than Somalia? WOW. That's really telling something about Pakistan.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 20, 2013)

How is comparing our treatment of rape legally and socially and looking at how these Islamic nations treat it, and being disgusted with their treatment not applying similar standards? It's because of our standards on treatment of the issue that people find themselves disgusted in the first place.

Religious freedom? Women's rights? LGBT issues? The list goes on and on. We do have our standards and we do apply them, and that is why so many of us see these places as regressive. The Islamic world particularly is riddled with virtual boiling pots whose instability can spill over quite rapidly to their neighbors and entities that if left unchecked can do a lot of harm. Civilian casualty is always unfortunate, but we at least make an effort to avoid them in contrast to the supposed groups often lauded as freedom fighters. 



> (i.e. the US and associated powers are largely responsible for the suffering in worse areas of the world, due to our past actions and current policies)



The U.S. and Europe in particular, have done a lot of damage to the international community that is true. The lingering effects of Imperialism and the two World Wars don't go away so easily. With that stated, many of these same nations absolutely refuse to take responsibility for instability that has little to do with, and historically precedes in many cases, that of the U.S. or the era of Imperialism. Yet it has always been easy to blame an outside entity or the 'other' for all the problems of a nation and its people.


----------



## Mael (Jul 20, 2013)

A point in time begins where nations can no longer blame the US or Europe for their present conditions.  We see shit like Venezuela's disparity as just that, their own incompetence brought out to the forefront and they can't blame the white Anglo-Saxon anymore.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

Mael said:


> But nobody is saying that they're not horrible.  That's the thing.  We're stating how shit is worse elsewhere even if we have an issue to address and that our culture is evolving while some others regress or stagnate, case in point Pakistan.



Savior's post, along with all of my posts in this thread, was in response to the "Muslims gonna Mus" and associated bashing of all Muslims due to this fucked up abusive law.  I don't care if you say that this is terrible, because it is, but once there are tons of people in the thread talking about how it is indicative of the feelings of all Muslims, that becomes hateful bullshit.  You are responding as if you haven't read any of the Muslim bashing in this thread, but that is the very issue that everyone you're responding to is arguing against.

And I don't think Pakistan is a particularly good example, as I can't imagine our regular drone strikes which kill innocents are helping to stabilize their country. 

Also, I most definitely disagree with your claim that our culture is evolving.  Your claim about our culture also ignores the fact that we have the means with which to maintain our culture, whereas the areas you critique have suffered from Western exploitation and war for a hundred years.  There is no way to accurately compare "progress" within a war zone to "progress" in one of the safest and richest countries in the world.



Mael said:


> A point in time begins where nations can no longer blame the US or Europe for their present conditions.  We see shit like Venezuela's disparity as just that, their own incompetence brought out to the forefront and they can't blame the white Anglo-Saxon anymore.



There was a temporary pro-US coup in Venezuela in 2002, lol. =) You sure seem to know a lot about how white people aren't responsible for things. rofl


----------



## Mael (Jul 20, 2013)

I have been reading it, and while it's unfair to wholly categorize an entire faith based off that, I have a very hard time defending the Islamic judiciary system as currently demonstrated in Saudi Arabia, Iran, the UAE, Pakistan, etc., and how Salafists want this abomination of a justice system spread around.

So yeah.


----------



## Krory (Jul 20, 2013)

Apparent appropriate response to religious discrimination: Make it WORSE by telling folks that America TOTALLY deserved those terrorist attacks and they were funny because you can get away with them


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 20, 2013)

> And I don't think Pakistan is a particularly good example, as I can't imagine our regular drone strikes which kill innocents are helping to stabilize their country.



That country is already falling apart, which is worrisome because it's a nuclear power; furthermore, every military campaign has had civilian deaths, and the big thing that people ignore about drone strikes is that it has contributed to a drastic decrease of such casualties; especially as the technology improves. Most people who complain about the drones don't even know the first thing about them. Casualties are overwhelmingly Islamic militants and civilian deaths as a result of those strikes drop each year.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> How is comparing our treatment of rape legally and socially and looking at how these Islamic nations treat it, and being disgusted with their treatment not applying similar standards? It's because of our standards on treatment of the issue that people find themselves disgusted in the first place.
> 
> Religious freedom? Women's rights? LGBT issues? The list goes on and on. We do have our standards and we do apply them, and that is why so many of us see these places as regressive.
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Other than your middle portion about minimizing civilian casualties (I think usage of drones and signature strikes alone proves any US claims about minimizing innocent casualties to be lies), I do agree with most of your post.  I don't think it's wrong to criticize these policies, if such criticism is limited to the policies and the leaders and sects which support those policies.  This thread is full of people generalizing these horrible actions to be representative of all Muslims, which is what I take issue with.  If we look at almost any of your listed issues by themselves, without generalizing it into an insult for an entire people or religion, then you are quite correct that the US is far far better.

EDIT: Your contention that civilian casualties are decreasing is only partially true.  The scale of our drone strikes has been decreasing, but we are still operating under rules that classify any military aged male as a combatant.  So a good half of those "militant" numbers are likely innocent civilians, in addition to the hundreds of confirmed civilians and children.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

krory said:


> Apparent appropriate response to religious discrimination: Make it WORSE by telling folks that America TOTALLY deserved those terrorist attacks and they were funny because you can get away with them



I've already explained that neg to you and that it was sarcastic, so this is a LIE.  Also I didn't post my comment publicly, I only said it to you to get under your skin because you were claiming that "Muslims gonna Mus" was a funny "joke."  So this would be another ad hominem from you, although amazingly you formulated a complex thought here! I'm proud! rofl ;P


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 20, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> Other than your middle portion about minimizing civilian casualties (I think usage of drones and signature strikes alone proves any US claims about minimizing innocent casualties to be lies)



You think, but I know. They have reduced casualties of civilians significantly, and the number drops each year. Besides, if there was no effort, the drones wouldn't exist in the first place and we'd just drop hell on whatever target was being pursued at the time, ala, "shock and awe" strategy; which doesn't work. 



> I do agree with most of your post.  I don't think it's wrong to criticize these policies, if such criticism is limited to the policies and the leaders and sects which support those policies.  This thread is full of people generalizing these horrible actions to be representative of all Muslims, which is what I take issue with.



I don't think it's inappropriate to point out there seems to be problems with the religion itself as well; take a look at Britain as a more notable example of issues with immigrants from these Islamic nations that simply refuse to assimilate. They carry over these barbaric Sharia laws and practices and demand special privilege in conduct under them. It's not all Muslims of course, but it is a significant problem in the religion.



> If we look at almost any of your listed issues by themselves, without generalizing it into an insult for an entire people or religion, then you are quite correct that the US is far far better.



I have no love for the Abrahamic religions in particular but I can't lie to myself and say the problems they face are the same or at the very least, the problems they do have in common are equally as severe. I mean, the fact that a poorly-made YT video can make an entire region lose their shit is scary.


----------



## Mael (Jul 20, 2013)

> I am not Chinese or North Korean, which is why I don't spend much time discussing their abusive policies. As a US citizen I am responsible for US policies



Whoop dee doo...but you to get on this deflective stance is a little bullshit.


----------



## Jagger (Jul 20, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> Actually, I think of bigots as small, pitiful things, frightened of the truth.  So "bigots gonna big" just doesn't sound right, despite making about as much sense as "bigots gonna bigot" since "bigot" isn't an action.


The typical guy that is fun at parties.

Yup, this thread is now complete.


----------



## Altron (Jul 20, 2013)

ITT: People need moar thick skin.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Jul 20, 2013)

I don't get why people always assume this defensive stance. We know we have issues here in the U.S but that doesn't mean we aren't allowed to criticize an abomination such as this. This same argument comes up every time a thread is made about rape/women's right in the middle east. Give it a rest already, the middle east sucks.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You think, but I know. They have reduced casualties of civilians significantly, and the number drops each year. Besides, if there was no effort, the drones wouldn't exist in the first place and we'd just drop hell on whatever target was being pursued at the time, ala, "shock and awe" strategy; which doesn't work.



Signature strikes by their very definition kill suspicious looking groups of people whose only crime is walking around in their war torn country with weapons, or gathering in a large group.  The very fact that we are assassinating people for nothing but having a suspicious appearance from afar shows that minimization of civilian casualties is not our main concern, as "suspicious looking" should not be a sufficient standard upon which to decide if someone lives or dies.  That you can't understand this obvious fact shows the sickness of America and her supporters.



Seto Kaiba said:


> I don't think it's inappropriate to point out there seems to be problems with the religion itself as well; take a look at Britain as a more notable example of issues with immigrants from these Islamic nations that simply refuse to assimilate. They carry over these barbaric Sharia laws and practices and demand special privilege in conduct under them. It's not all Muslims of course, but it is a significant problem in the religion.



This I can agree with.  We need to do our best to allow people to maintain their culture, while opening a dialogue and educating them about what our societies deem to be the innate rights of all people.  I'm someone who's not fond of spanking (though I wouldn't want it criminalized, of course, unless it crosses the line into actual abuse), so I certainly wouldn't want to create exceptions to our laws or weaken them just to allow someone to keep cultural practices that are a net harm.  
I think a large part of the problem might be that we just don't have (or don't want to spend) the money that would be required to reach out to all immigrants from places with different standards of behavior or treatment, and educate them in a way about our idea of rights without making them feel as if their culture is being forcibly destroyed or infringed upon.  I'm sure there are huge numbers of native or successfully integrated immigrant Muslims who would love to have government jobs helping members of their own culture successfully join our societies and understand some of the more complicated legal requirements for an easy life in the west.



Seto Kaiba said:


> I have no love for the Abrahamic religions in particular but I can't lie to myself and say the problems they face are the same or at the very least, the problems they do have in common are equally as severe. I mean, the fact that a poorly-made YT video can make an entire region lose their shit is scary.



I know it's terrible, but for whatever reason this reminded me of Mr. Garrison from South Park talking about how Muslims in the Middle East are violent because it's hot and sandy and their religion prohibits sex. ("It's Friday night, but you can't have sex, and you can't jack off" lol)  I do believe that some of the violent responses to seemingly mild events are more of a symptom of a greater problem, where they feel discriminated against or oppressed by the West, so then some relatively minor event that breaks a rule of their religion can be viewed as emblematic of Western dominance and discrimination.  Although I'm sure a large portion is that a lack of free speech (or punishments for disagreement with the state version of the religion) encourages radical readings of their faith to be given equal or greater standing as moderate readings, whereas in the West (with free speech) the vast majority of people will practice a moderate or relatively accepting version of their faith.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 20, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> Signature strikes by their very definition kill suspicious looking groups of people whose only crime is walking around in their war torn country with weapons, or gathering in a large group.  The very fact that we are assassinating people for nothing but having a suspicious appearance from afar shows that minimization of civilian casualties is not our main concern, as "suspicious looking" should not be a sufficient standard upon which to decide if someone lives or dies.  That you can't understand this obvious fact shows the sickness of America and her supporters.



That is a massive and dishonest oversimplification of how these strikes are conducted. Intelligence is gathered on targets and where they gather before the strikes are made, and strikes are conducted as to contain civilian causalities to a minimum. This isn't conjecture, even third-party studies back this up. Civilian casualties have been reduced due to the drone strikes, and they drop each year. If you really have a hard time accepting it then go dig up KidTony's thread on drone strikes and see how he made similar arguments but was simply proven wrong on them. You talk of an "obvious fact" but it's hardly as such. People against the strikes only talk of them from an emotionally charged standpoint, but armed with no facts behind the matter.


----------



## Spock (Jul 20, 2013)

Mael said:


> Then where the fuck are you, with this logic, when China pulls out that lulz report?
> 
> Where are you on the North Korean articles?
> 
> ...





No one is preventing you from criticizing Mael, on the other hand I welcome constructive critiques regarding all aspects of the Middle East whether it be social, ideological, cultural etc. 

However when you got members advocating for genocide and desensitized wishes for the region to be wiped out such as "hope these countries get burned" , "disappear off the planet" or "do as the Romans do" along with other offensive shit it's where people become like hold the phone, niqqa. 

Because if the Middle East deserve to be wiped out for retarded laws upheld by retarded dictators and equally retarded traditionalists then shit, other parts of the world, who may be morally superior in some aspects yet equally morally retarded in others should sure as hell take up their own prescriptions as well. 

Trust me, the defensive attitude and "get off your high horses" positions did not stem from CHECK UR PRIVILEGE, EBEL WEST but from all the desensitized shit being spouted in an unreflecting, declamatorial fashion. At least that's how I got emotional


----------



## Mael (Jul 20, 2013)

Spock said:


> No one is preventing you from criticizing Mael, on the other hand I welcome constructive critiques regarding all aspects of the Middle East whether it be social, ideological, cultural etc.
> 
> However when you got members advocating for genocide and desensitized wishes for the region to be wiped out such as "hope these countries get burned" , "disappear off the planet" or "do as the Romans do" along with other offensive shit it's where people become like hold the phone, niqqa.
> 
> ...



I understand that and I oft tend to ignore the "nuke the ME" crowd.  I'm talking about those who give the logical criticism but are met with people like Savior.


----------



## WT (Jul 20, 2013)

Spock, you need to understand that Maels home town was recently bombed by muslims hence the hatred. He's actually a good person. Im sure the hatred will soon wash away


----------



## Mael (Jul 20, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Spock, you need to understand that Maels home town was recently bombed by muslims hence the hatred. He's actually a good person. Im sure the hatred will soon wash away



God you're stupid.

It has nothing to do with that.  Logical criticism of an archaic and unjust judicial system =/= genocidal hatred.

Are you purposely being retarded or just trolling?


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> That is a massive and dishonest oversimplification of how these strikes are conducted. Intelligence is gathered on targets and where they gather before the strikes are made, and strikes are conducted as to contain civilian causalities to a minimum. This isn't conjecture, even third-party studies back this up. Civilian casualties have been reduced due to the drone strikes, and they drop each year. If you really have a hard time accepting it then go dig up KidTony's thread on drone strikes and see how he made similar arguments but was simply proven wrong on them. You talk of an "obvious fact" but it's hardly as such. People against the strikes only talk of them from an emotionally charged standpoint, but armed with no facts behind the matter.



You are so unbelievably wrong.  We have two uses for drones, one of which is a targeted killing program based on specific people (including a couple American citizens that we illegally assassinated) who we have investigated and decided to assassinate.  The other usage of drones is for "signature strikes," in which we don't know the names or affiliations of the people we kill, but rather kill them based on patterns of behavior that we believe indicate they are militants.  It is laughable that you would lecture me on this when you don't even know what a signature strike is.  I'd like to see your sources for these supposed studies, because both the ACLU and Center for Constitutional Rights hold our signature strikes to be illegal.(and the UN believes them to be in violation of international law, though won't act on it)  As a hint, government claims about who we kill and who is a militant are not trustworthy, and the majority of the information on the program is still treated as classified.

Also, your phrasing (and perhaps the phrasing of the source from which you got this false information) of "civilian deaths have been reduced due to drone strikes" has a serious flaw: are they reduced as compared to full scale, non-targeted bombing?  Because that is obvious (as the drone strikes are smaller scale attacks), and would offer no proof that the drone strikes themselves are killing primarily dangerous militants.

I mean, really, I just can't believe that you'd lecture me on this while not even knowing the basic facts about our drone program.


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jul 20, 2013)

itt tldr:

ur all stupid

and people are all stupid

because when other people call them stupid

it becomes a global 'no u' cold war instead of realizing

good golly miss molly

u might have a point but instead ima backlash at irrelevant tangents cuz my pride is my swag hurrrrrr


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 20, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> You are so unbelievably wrong.  We have two uses for drones, one of which is a targeted killing program based on specific people (including a couple American citizens that we illegally assassinated)



Specific strikes, which only become more precise as the technology improves. We have killed two that renounced their citizenship and declared war on the nation, but this is exactly what I mean about people speaking out against the strikes having no knowledge of the facts.  



> who we have investigated and decided to assassinate.  The other usage of drones is for "signature strikes," in which we don't know the names or affiliations of the people we kill, but rather kill them based on patterns of behavior that we believe indicate they are militants.



Comprehensive intelligence gathering on multiple factors including conduct, affiliation, and whatever dealings we've been able to gather intel on.



> It is laughable that you would lecture me on this when you don't even know what a signature strike is.



The fact that you think it's simply a random strike based on how they look only reveals your massive ignorance on the matter. 



> I'd like to see your sources for these supposed studies, because both the ACLU and Center for Constitutional Rights hold our signature strikes to be illegal.(and the UN believes them to be in violation of international law, though won't act on it)  As a hint, government claims about who we kill and who is a militant are not trustworthy, and the majority of the information on the program is still treated as classified.



No, you're hint is complete shit, just because you don't want to believe it doesn't make it unreliable. They've released pretty accurate civilian casualties for Iraq and Afghanistan as it is, and have conducted a far more comprehensive study on the program than any party only charged with emotion on the matter than the facts. The CIA's claim of zero casualties (which btw, isn't an official report, it was made by an individual in a press conference) is obviously suspect, but even studies conducted by other entities have civilian casualties as no higher than 25% and dropping:



> As a further safeguard, each strike is approved by either CIA director Leon Panetta or his deputy, Michael Morell, the official said. The CIA since mid-2008 has executed about 200 strikes, killing roughly 1,300 militants and 30 non-combatants, the official said.



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...hs-after-increasing-cia-pakistan-strikes.html



> Reporting from Washington ? The CIA passed up a chance last year to kill Sirajuddin Haqqani, the head of an anti-American insurgent network in Pakistan that is closely linked to Al Qaeda and the Afghan Taliban, when it chose not to fire a missile at him from a Predator drone because women and children were nearby, U.S. and Pakistani officials say.
> 
> The incident was one of at least three occasions in the last six months when a militant was identified on video and a shot was available, but U.S. officials decided not to fire in order to avoid civilian casualties, said a senior Pakistani official familiar with the drone program.
> 
> ...







> If there are doubts about the C.I.A. claim, there are also questions about the reliability of critics? reports of noncombatant deaths. Reporters in North Waziristan, where most strikes occur, operate in a dangerous and politically charged environment. Many informants have their own agendas: militants use civilian deaths as a recruiting tool, and Pakistani officials rally public opinion against the drones as a violation of Pakistani sovereignty.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...







> Also, your phrasing (and perhaps the phrasing of the source from which you got this false information) of "civilian deaths have been reduced due to drone strikes" has a serious flaw: are they reduced as compared to full scale, non-targeted bombing?  Because that is obvious (as the drone strikes are smaller scale attacks), and would offer no proof that the drone strikes themselves are killing primarily dangerous militants.



Modern strikes are targeted genius. It's not like WWII were we dropped in the general vicinity and hoped for the most ideal result. Our strike programs all utilize systems for precision, and the drones are the most precise weapons we have. 



> I mean, really, I just can't believe that you'd lecture me on this while not even knowing the basic facts about our drone program.



You haven't presented any basic facts, just your emotionally-charged ignorance.


----------



## Spock (Jul 20, 2013)

WAD said:


> itt tldr:
> 
> ur all stupid
> 
> ...





I do not understand the good Golly miss Molly reference. Is Molly a diminutive of Muslims?


----------



## Mael (Jul 20, 2013)

Spock said:


> I do not understand the good Golly miss Molly reference. Is Molly a diminutive of Muslims?



Mollslims gonna Molls?


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jul 20, 2013)

i might hate u guys :/

or at least severely dislike :/


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jul 20, 2013)

Spock said:


> I do not understand the good Golly miss Molly reference. Is Molly a diminutive of Muslims?



Its just a phrase.. And a song.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 20, 2013)

Spock said:


> No one is preventing you from criticizing Mael, on the other hand I welcome constructive critiques regarding all aspects of the Middle East whether it be social, ideological, cultural etc.
> 
> However when you got members advocating for genocide and desensitized wishes for the region to be wiped out such as "hope these countries get burned" , "disappear off the planet" or "do as the Romans do" along with other offensive shit it's where people become like hold the phone, niqqa.
> 
> ...



Funny thing is that most of this started because I said Muslims gonna Mus, not because off people talking about genocide and burning something.


----------



## Spock (Jul 20, 2013)

No honey. No, you are not the only special little pumpin fry here. Give rightful credit to the others as well.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 20, 2013)

Thanks for your effort, Seto Kaiba, but it's clear that I won't be able to convince you of fuckall when you're citing anonymous administration officials' defenses of the program or lies about the murder statistics as proof that it is just.

As to whether Anwar Al-Awlaki and his 16 year old son Abdulrahman had "renounced their citizenship" as you claim: No, they hadn't. There is a specific process to renounce your American citizenship, and neither of them had done so.  They were illegally assassinated by the US government while still US citizens.  Perhaps they could have tried Anwar on a "material support" charge, but Abdulrahman had no connection to any terrorist activity, other than through his illegally assassinated father's political speeches.  Speaking against the US is not "renouncing your citizenship," and neither is having a father that spoke against the US.  But even if it was, they were still murdered without cause. (Abdulrahman entirely without cause, and Al-Awlaki because we feared his education and ability to arouse opposition to US atrocities)

The signature strikes specifically do NOT collect intelligence on targets, otherwise they wouldn't be signature strikes, they'd be targeted strikes. (because we'd know the people's names and associates)  Signature strikes target people based upon their behavior without any knowledge of the people themselves, which is why many groups and nations hold them to be illegal.

Really, this sort of lockstep defense of indiscriminate murder is disgusting.(oh, I'm sorry!, *somewhat discriminate* murder)  I really can't discuss it in depth, because it is just too infuriating and depressing to see otherwise intelligent people like yourself believe this utter trash.  Please continue believing that your hands aren't dirty with the blood of all these innocents, because, you know, these bombs are so much more targeted than other bombs!  I literally don't have the words to tell you how your defense of this makes me feel about you, and all the other Americans who believe such actions are just.  (or, more likely, I can't tell you here, as I do have some words that I find appropriate to your beliefs) 

& Please don't bother responding to this.

EDIT: Just to clarify, and as a response to krory's latest ad hominem, I'm asking you to not bother responding because I can't really discuss this with you without getting quite upset, due to your acceptance of anonymous government official's claims and "mainstream" establishment media sources as proof of your beliefs.  You can certainly respond if you'd wish, but I don't have much to say other than that your views on drone strikes (and presumably the US "War on Terror") are vile, and that you obviously wish to believe that our side's usage of assassination has acceptably low civilian casualties, even if that number is 25+%.  In my opinion, that makes you utterly hopeless. (until, of course, you wake up and realize this is all immoral)


----------



## Krory (Jul 21, 2013)

Translation: "Please don't respond to this because my ass is now simply empty for me to pull shit out of."


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 21, 2013)

krory said:


> Translation: "Please don't respond to this because my ass is now simply empty for me to pull shit out of."



Wow, you're so clever. That must be why you've posted 5 to 10 times only to attack me, without responding to any of my arguments or making any argument of your own.  Go away, troll.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 21, 2013)

mlc818 said:


> Thanks for your effort, Seto Kaiba, but it's clear that I won't be able to convince you of fuckall when you're citing anonymous administration officials' defenses of the program or lies about the murder statistics as proof that it is just.
> 
> As to whether Anwar Al-Awlaki and his 16 year old son Abdulrahman had "renounced their citizenship" as you claim: No, they hadn't. There is a specific process to renounce your American citizenship, and neither of them had done so.  They were illegally assassinated by the US government while still US citizens.  Perhaps they could have tried Anwar on a "material support" charge, but Abdulrahman had no connection to any terrorist activity, other than through his illegally assassinated father's political speeches.  Speaking against the US is not "renouncing your citizenship," and neither is having a father that spoke against the US.  But even if it was, they were still murdered without cause. (Abdulrahman entirely without cause, and Al-Awlaki because we feared his education and ability to arouse opposition to US atrocities)
> 
> ...



These officials have insight on the program that you or I do not, and even studies outside their statements assert the claim of low civilian casualty rate. 

Wow, what baseless shit. Anwar specifically cooperated in acts of terrorism not only against other Muslims but against U.S. citizens and servicemen. He wasn't speaking out against the U.S. government, he was advocating and an active part of conducting terrorist attacks. He declared war on the U.S., his son was killed in the strike that killed Anwar. 

Not only did you dismiss the studies because they don't align with what you want to believe, you strawmanned my entire case for the drone strikes. The strikes do collect intelligence, for every strike. These drones will sit for hours, if not longer so that those behind it can gather the intelligence that is absolutely necessary for them. That's not even counting the intelligence gathered long beforehand before the drone even arrives. It's really a stupid argument you're making, because from a pragmatic standpoint regardless of any sentimentality, it is within their interest to strike militants rather than civilians because the latter are a waste of time to go after.

Your attempt to describe it as "indiscriminate murder" along with your other irrelevant diatribe, only asserts my point that you base your standpoint on emotionally charged ignorance, not any real understanding of the issue.


----------



## Mael (Jul 21, 2013)

I see anal leakage over traitors to the US.  Cry me a river.


----------



## mlc818 (Jul 21, 2013)

Seto, let's just hope you can be so evenhanded when it's your son or daughter who dies in a targeted strike, because a terrorist happened to live nearby.  I mean, that terrorist could have killed hundreds of people, and your kid is just one person.  It was a sad mistake, but she would be an acceptable sacrifice for the greater good. Your sacrifice will be greatly appreciated by all lovers of freedom, who are quick to sacrifice the lives of others for some perceived false safety.

Mael:  You obviously don't belong in America if you believe assassination for an unproven charge of "traitor" (which neither qualified as, but who needs laws? Not Nazis) is appropriate.

All I see is a bunch of stupid authoritarian fucks who don't care in the least for anyone's life, if that life isn't someone who looks like them and shares their political beliefs. (or if the "collateral damage" death of that life could protect them from a boogieman)  I would gladly be labeled a traitor to a nation full of people like you all.  Honestly, if America is at the point of "well assassination/torture is ok for these people," then the terrorists can't destroy us quick enough.  There would be nothing worth saving.

So, I'm out, have fun with your "anal leakage" of authoritarian murderous nationalistic bullshit.


----------



## Mael (Jul 21, 2013)

Lol with the Godwin's.  Boo hoo dude.  A man confirmed to be involved in AQ's activities died and his son who was likely going to follow the footsteps also got roasted.

Nothing of value was lost.


----------



## Krory (Jul 21, 2013)

Quick, quick. Someone reply, see how fast he comes running back even though he's "totally done with this"... three times now.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 21, 2013)

I still like how a poor woman gets raped and someone has the audacity to come in here and complain about us saying mean things about Muslims. Well when we start raping them and putting them in prison someone has the right to be mad. 

For now we're just saying shit.


----------



## Spock (Jul 21, 2013)

I love the general we vs them atmosphere, gives it a little kick.


----------



## Xyloxi (Jul 21, 2013)

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people here don't hate Muslims, the issue is more so with Muslim dominated states which tend to have legal systems that are beyond stupid. Someone commenting on the flaws of the American legal system and the results it produces aren't going to get away with the fact that the UAE thinks it right to jail rape victims. Nor that Muslims for some reason have a problem with calling other Muslims on their stupidity, which seems to be a recurring issue in any threads where the phrase "Muslims gonna Mus" is uttered. 

The problem is that a lot of Muslims seem to think that other Muslims can do no wrong, or they'll at least pussyfoot around the issue by blaming the West as a whole by bashing the US.

On the topic of authoritarian people, there wouldn't be any centrist authoritarians if both sides of the political system didn't happen to be full of shit. The left with their will to love and tolerate those who don't want to fit into their society and the right wing for thinking immigrants are a drain on society and that they shouldn't receive any benefits of the welfare state they're trying to destroy, because that's only for white people.


----------



## Kruptos (Jul 21, 2013)

Malaysia is a bit different from what I've heard.


----------



## RyokoForTheWin (Jul 21, 2013)

Someone driving the waahmbulance again at the U.S. doing mean ole bad guy stuff for the sake of truth, freedom, and justice? Wait.. wait.. do you hear that?



And he's playing it just for you!


----------



## Blue (Jul 21, 2013)

About time they cracked down on those Norwegian sluts.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 21, 2013)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> The religious message is part of the culture but it is also independant. We can take one religion and "transplant" it elsewhere along with the religious customs, but ultimately what carries religious importance is the rules.
> 
> Some people claim, falsely, that the bible is benign. It is not so. The bible is just as "benign" as the quran. The difference is in how the quran and the bible are interpreted.
> 
> Currently western culture is fairly non-violent hence why interpretations of the bible rulings are fairly liberal. Look what the Christian Liberation Army is doing in Africa for another interpretation.


Christianity has been on the backfoot in the West for a long time - the Churches are forced to reform and conform time and again to social shifts to stay in the mainstream and to survive, at least to some extent. Islam and its whole priest class hasn't been put in its place by Middle Eastern/Asian people like this, not yet. 

By the way, administering Sharia law in the UAE, or wherever, isn't merely a matter of some religious leaders interpreting a passage here or there according to their individual liberal/conservative whims - it is a comprehensive system of religious jurisprudence with long traditions that aren't easy to credibly break from, as I'm sure the Muslims on here can tell you. It can obviously be resisted and changed in the long-run but that takes many, many generations.

Religion doesn't adapt to its host society automatically, or so readily. I mean do you imagine that if Islamic law were implemented in Sweden today, it would somehow adapt itself so radically so as to conform to the spirit of the existing set of laws and the existing liberal culture there? Or would it transform the society as you know it?

All you've said here amounts to equivocation - this travesty of justice in Dubai is a direct result of Sharia Law, and it's not the first time it's happened, because the law itself (rather than the judge) doesn't provide protection or justice for victims of rape. 



White Tiger said:


> During the Prophet's time, punishment was inflicted on the rapist based solely on the evidence provided by the victim. Wa'il ibn Hujr reports of an incident when a woman was raped. Later, when some people came by, she identified and accused the man of raping her. They seized him and brought him to Allah's messenger, who said to the woman, "Go away, for All?h has forgiven you," but of the man who had raped her, he said, "Stone him to death." (Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud)
> 
> According to Al-Mawardi, an 11th-century specialist in sharia, if either the victim or a witness kills the perpetrator of rape during the crime, in order to prevent furthering the violence of the act, the killing is permissible and is exempt from the laws of murder and killing.
> 
> ...


It's absolutely fucking shocking that a rape victim is considered to have taken part in 'adultery' or 'unlawful sex' in the first place. I can't fathom what is so difficult to understand about coercion in the act of rape. It literally defines the concept of the act.

Even in that example you brought up of Muhammad punishing the rapist, he says to the victim 'Go away, for Allah has forgiven you'... forgiven for what? What's sinful about getting raped? 

I know that Dubai and much of that region is extremely racist, but an Emirati girl was thrown into prison for a year for getting gang-raped by six men. It's clearly a problem with the prevailing interpretations of Islamic law as it relates to the crime of rape and to the victimhood of the raped women. I am also aware that the ruling classes in these regions are hypocrites of the highest order.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 21, 2013)

ImperatorMortis said:


> Its just a phrase.. And a song.







Spock said:


> No honey. No, you are not the only special little pumpin fry here. Give rightful credit to the others as well.


I did it first ph 

And wait...did you call me honey


----------



## Rania (Jul 21, 2013)

Now that I think about it, it doesn't seem right that she got imprisoned, even if we're talking about Sharia law in the UAE. It's either they got it terribly wrong, or there is something more to the case that we just don't know about.


----------



## Krory (Jul 21, 2013)

Rania said:


> Now that I think about it, it doesn't seem right that she got imprisoned, even if we're talking about Sharia law in the UAE. It's either they got it terribly wrong, or there is something more to the case that we just don't know about.



Except this isn't the first and only time it's happened... as indicated, it's happened at least four times in the past several years. It's a borderline common occurrence at the very least, the same exact story every time.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 21, 2013)

Rania said:


> Now that I think about it, it doesn't seem right that she got imprisoned, even if we're talking about Sharia law in the UAE. It's either they got it terribly wrong, or there is something more to the case that we just don't know about.


I'm pretty sure they've done this before. 

Picture post, not sure if anyone has yet. 



Pictures of the victim seem to get people to go "awww" the chances of this double if the victim is an attractive white woman.


----------



## Krory (Jul 21, 2013)

The way the victim looks always seems to matter most to people... nevermind that it's awful it happened regardless, it always has to be deemed more awful if the woman is attractive.

Bullshit.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 21, 2013)

That reminds me, everyone can sign the petition for her release here. 



An absolute disgrace that such a petition has to exist, but there y'are. Also a bunch of other links in there you can follow if you have the time. Was actually a friend of hers who shared it on another forum I'm on.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 21, 2013)

erictheking said:


> That reminds me, everyone can sign the petition for her release here.
> 
> 
> 
> An absolute disgrace that such a petition has to exist, but there y'are. Also a bunch of other links you can follow if you have the time. A friend of hers shared it on another forum I'm on.



Like Dubai gives a shit about a petition.


----------



## Rania (Jul 21, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I'm pretty sure they've done this before.
> 
> Picture post, not sure if anyone has yet.
> 
> ...



So true. It's because black/brown people are now considered sub-human and white people are psychologically conditioned by the media to be less affected by their suffering. 

I'm not white but if I saw some Taliban kid get blown up into smithereens, I wouldn't care as much. I feel terrible for admitting this. :$


----------



## Rania (Jul 21, 2013)

erictheking said:


> That reminds me, everyone can sign the petition for her release here.
> 
> 
> 
> An absolute disgrace that such a petition has to exist, but there y'are. Also a bunch of other links in there you can follow if you have the time. Was actually a friend of hers who shared it on another forum I'm on.



Yeah dude, we don't do petitions here. LOL.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 21, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Like Dubai gives a shit about a petition.



Tell that to her friends who want everyone to sign it, you fucking helmet. Sign it, or move on.


----------



## Rania (Jul 21, 2013)

AHHAHA he just called you a helmet, wth.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 21, 2013)

Rania said:


> AHHAHA he just called you a helmet, wth.


----------



## Spock (Jul 21, 2013)

erictheking said:


> That reminds me, everyone can sign the petition for her release here.
> 
> 
> 
> An absolute disgrace that such a petition has to exist, but there y'are. Also a bunch of other links in there you can follow if you have the time. Was actually a friend of hers who shared it on another forum I'm on.



This actually says so much about the Norwegian embassy. Why aren't they being effective enough?


----------



## Rania (Jul 21, 2013)

It's blocked. In the UAE, even our internet laws are strange.


----------



## Xyloxi (Jul 21, 2013)

Rania said:


> It's blocked. In the UAE, even our internet laws are strange.



I'd imagine the photo of penis would be the reason why it's blocked in the UAE.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 21, 2013)

Spock said:


> This actually says so much about the Norwegian embassy. Why aren't they being effective enough?


Well, this is the latest:



> So she was put in prison but the Norwegian Authorities intervened and were able to secure her release into a Norwegian Sailor's Mission in Dubai where she has to remain until her appeal, which is supposed to be on September 5th. But she's had her passport confiscated and isn't allowed to travel. She was fearful that she would be dragged back to prison at any time but now she's been told she is to appear in court tomorrow but she doesn't know why, the authorities won't tell her. Of course we're all hoping that so much pressure has been brought to bear on the UAE that they're going to release her, especially with it being Ramadan, but nobody can be sure.


----------



## Spock (Jul 21, 2013)

^  
I don't understand the Ramadan connection...?


Rania said:


> It's blocked. In the UAE, even our internet laws are strange.



Lol. I thought we'd beat you guys with the blocking services. I'm surprised that page is open over here.


----------



## Rania (Jul 21, 2013)

> ^
> I don't understand the Ramadan connection...?



It's because during Ramadan (since it's a holy month) Sheikhs pardon many criminals to show their mercy. 



> Lol. I thought we'd beat you guys with the blocking services. I'm surprised that page is open over here.



Everything is blocked here. 7ata el facebook wl skype 3amalo block, walla 7aywanat ='(


----------



## Savior (Jul 21, 2013)

Mael said:


> A point in time begins where nations can no longer blame the US or Europe for their present conditions.



Funny how all the academics disagree on this.


----------



## Spock (Jul 21, 2013)

Rania said:


> It's because during Ramadan (since it's a holy month) Sheikhs pardon many criminals to show their mercy.


I see



> Everything is blocked here. 7ata el facebook wl skype 3amalo block, walla 7aywanat ='(



I can relate ;_; 7a ye3malo block 3la el Whatsapp wl Tumblr, 7aywanat bejad.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Jul 21, 2013)

I signed the petition and shared the website.


----------



## Sōsuke Aizen (Jul 21, 2013)

I can't express how happy it makes me to be in this country knowing that sites are blocked in other places.


----------



## Spock (Jul 21, 2013)

♚Sōsuke Aizen♚ said:


> I can't express how happy it makes me to be in this country knowing that sites are blocked in other places.



Dont rub it in, biatch.


----------



## Sanity Check (Jul 21, 2013)

Rania said:


> Everything is blocked here. 7ata el facebook wl skype 3amalo block, walla 7aywanat ='(





Spock said:


> I can relate ;_; 7a ye3malo block 3la el Whatsapp wl Tumblr, 7aywanat bejad.



You can circumvent internet filters with TOR, etc.

Ppl in , China & elsewhere have used it with success in the past.

Can't say I know much about it though.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 21, 2013)

erictheking said:


> Tell that to her friends who want everyone to sign it, you fucking helmet. Sign it, or move on.


People need to learn that signing a petition does nothing if the people you're giving it to don't care about it. You can cry all you want about what I said, but it's the truth. You don't have to be an asshole because someone points that out.


----------



## Spock (Jul 21, 2013)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> You can circumvent internet filters with TOR, etc.



They are all blocked as well


----------



## Rania (Jul 21, 2013)

Spock said:


> I see
> 
> 
> 
> I can relate ;_; 7a ye3malo block 3la el Whatsapp wl Tumblr, 7aywanat bejad.



bs lesh? sho 59hom fi 7ayatna?.. b7ro2 dami


----------



## Krory (Jul 21, 2013)

YouTube seems to like to block Welsh rugby videos Para tries to send to me.

_*Everyone hates America waaah waaa waaaah.*_


----------



## Sanity Check (Jul 21, 2013)

Spock said:


> They are all blocked as well



I guess you'd have to use a VPN or something.

Maybe something like this might work.

[YOUTUBE]gC5bngTLQRk[/YOUTUBE]

Doesn't look like they offer free access though which sux.


----------



## Jagger (Jul 21, 2013)

It's fascinating how the thread went to talk about a rape to two guys talking in another language.


----------



## Spock (Jul 21, 2013)

Most of the VPV, proxy sites are also blocked, the ones that work make the Internet connection extremely slow. Basically, it's the Kobayashi Maru.



Rania said:


> bs lesh? sho 59hom fi 7ayatna?.. b7ro2 dami



Khof, takhalof w 7ob 9aydara. >_< Epitome of insecurity.


----------



## Mael (Jul 21, 2013)

Savior said:


> Funny how all the academics disagree on this.



Ah yes, so when Argentina fucks up, that's the UK's fault or Spain's fault?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 21, 2013)

Savior said:


> Funny how all the academics disagree on this.



Funny how this statement is bullshit.


----------



## wibisana (Jul 21, 2013)

they block wikipedia?? it's like they block library
no wonder....


----------



## Spock (Jul 21, 2013)

wibisana said:


> they block wikipedia?? it's like they block library
> no wonder....



No wonder what?

They don't block Wikipedia in its entirety. Just certain articles.


----------



## Savior (Jul 21, 2013)

> Dubai Police?s forensic report confirmed that the woman had sex but there was no mention of any physical violence.





> The Sudanese, who came to Dubai with Dalelv on a business visit from Qatar, pleaded guilty and confessed to having consensual sex.





> She said they left the nightclub where they were drinking, according to her prosecution statement, at 3am and went to the hotel where they were staying near Safa Park.
> 
> Dalelv claimed to prosecutors that H.A. suggested that she sleep in his room to wake up for an early business meeting.
> 
> The woman undressed and slept in her underwear on the bed while the Sudanese slept on the couch for a while before he moved to a bed beside her, she *claimed*.





Incredibly sketchy. Dunno why people would be so quick to trust what this woman is saying.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 21, 2013)

Savior said:


> Incredibly sketchy. Dunno why people would be so quick to trust what this woman is saying.


Why would we trust any official word from Dubai? 

That's the real question.


----------



## Savior (Jul 21, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Why would we trust any official word from Dubai?
> 
> That's the real question.



Please. You're acting like Dubai is a country with a reputation of North Korea or China, which clearly isn't the case. There's a reason everyone is rushing to do business there.


----------



## Rania (Jul 21, 2013)

Consensual sex is illegal in Dubai but nobody is dumb enough to freaking report it to the police. How else will they find out? Unless you're like this Norwegian woman who wasn't even sure if she had sex or got raped so she asks the authorities for help. Idiot.


----------



## Krory (Jul 21, 2013)

Savior said:


> Please. You're acting like Dubai is a country with a reputation of North Korea or China, which clearly isn't the case. There's a reason everyone is rushing to do business there.



So they can get away with rape with but a slap on the wrist?

Sounds legit.


----------



## Savior (Jul 21, 2013)

krory said:


> So they can get away with rape with but a slap on the wrist?
> 
> Sounds legit.



You're acting like this happens all the time. Clearly it doesn't.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 21, 2013)

Rania said:


> Consensual sex is illegal in Dubai but nobody is dumb enough to freaking report it to the police. How else will they find out? Unless you're like this Norwegian woman who wasn't even sure if she had sex or got raped so she asks the authorities for help. Idiot.



She reported that she was raped. What the hell is wrong with you?


----------



## Krory (Jul 21, 2013)

And yet this article shows _four _ situations where a woman was blamed for her own rape in a smaller time frame than yours.

Stop sucking this dysfunctional country's dick and pretending like this _doesn't_ happen.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 21, 2013)

Savior said:


> Please. You're acting like Dubai is a country with a reputation of North Korea or China, which clearly isn't the case. There's a reason everyone is rushing to do business there.


When it comes to rape Dubai has a pretty shit reputation.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 21, 2013)

Savior said:


> You're acting like this happens all the time. Clearly it doesn't.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Jul 21, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> She reported that she was raped. What the hell is wrong with you?



Exactly what I was thinking. The shitty country she lives in has already poisoned her brain.


----------



## Krory (Jul 21, 2013)

Scumbag UAE.  Forcing a woman to sign a confession in a language she doesn't understand.

And...



> Most foreigners express sympathy with the Dubai government’s point of view – and amusement at the whole affair.



Sounds like some of the douchebags in this thread.  "Hey, if they want to rape you and get away with it, you gotta' respect that."


----------



## Savior (Jul 21, 2013)

You can find negative stories to paint literally every country in the world in a bad light.


----------



## Mael (Jul 21, 2013)

Amazing comeback...


----------



## Krory (Jul 21, 2013)

>"HEY, THESE THINGS ALMOST NEVER HAPPEN, HERE'S PROOF."
>Post three articles about men convicted for just ripping off a woman's clothes... one of which from almost ten year sago
>Someone else posts three articles about women who were drugged, assaulted, beaten some left with broken bones, brutally raped by _multiple_ people, were made a spectacle of by other inhabitants, and were imprisoned because, "You're a dirty, dirty slut." all within the last couple years
>"WELL, LIKE... YOU CAN FIND BAD STUFF ABOUT ANYONE. DOESN'T MEAN IT HAPPENS."


----------



## Sanity Check (Jul 21, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> .
> 
> .*csmonitor.com*/World/Middle-East/2010/0405/In-Dubai-public-kissing-can-land-you-in-jail



Seto Kaiba.

Quoting "Christian Science Monitors" website.



What is this world coming to!!??


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 21, 2013)

I didn't think I would see any victim blaming in here...oh who the fuck am I kidding.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 21, 2013)

Christian Science Monitor is actually a very reliable news source. Don't let the name deceive you.


----------



## Krory (Jul 21, 2013)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Seto Kaiba.
> 
> Quoting "Christian Science Monitors" website.
> 
> ...







Facts


----------



## Jagger (Jul 21, 2013)

This thread confirms the world is getting dominated by inbred idiots.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 21, 2013)

To presume that this woman cannot tell the difference between rape and consensual sex only shows how fucked up the theocratic regimes in that area have made the mentality of many of its own people there.


----------



## Mael (Jul 21, 2013)

Jagger said:


> This thread confirms the world is getting dominated by inbreed idiots.



Inbred*

And explain yourself.


----------



## Krory (Jul 21, 2013)

And let's not forget , something that her lawyer admitted was a _common occurrence_ and even though there were no witnesses, no evidence whatsoever, it still went forward

The taxi driver also went on to lie and claim that  and with that "killing blow" their appeal was shot down and are now forced to do three months of jail time for something that _never_ happened.

This country isn't just ass-backwards. It's inside-out and upside-down to boot and missing a few chunks of grey matter, to boot.


----------



## Mael (Jul 21, 2013)

It ain't THAT bad.  I mean Rania is still cool people in a conversation, or Spock although not Emirati.

It's the judiciary system that's just fucked.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 21, 2013)

Mael said:


> It ain't THAT bad.  I mean Rania is still cool people in a conversation, or Spock although not Emirati.
> 
> It's the judiciary system that's just fucked.



Did you even see the shit Rania has been posting in this thread?


----------



## Mael (Jul 21, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Did you even see the shit Rania has been posting in this thread?



Yes, yes I have...and what I trying to get at was that there wasn't an inherent ass-backwards from birth so that anything coming out was completely ass-backwards.  I was of the understanding that she was saying "it sucks but this is how it is and it won't change soon sadly."

Am I wrong?


----------



## Krory (Jul 21, 2013)

Mael said:


> It ain't THAT bad.  I mean Rania is still cool people in a conversation, or Spock although not Emirati.
> 
> It's the judiciary system that's just fucked.



Anyone who is victim-shaming is not "cool" - whether it's calling someone an idiot and claiming, "they can't remember if it was a rape or consensual" even though it was _never_ a question that it was a rape or people like Savior trying to claim this almost never happens. It's not cool.


----------



## Mael (Jul 21, 2013)

krory said:


> Anyone who is victim-shaming is not "cool" - whether it's calling someone an idiot and claiming, "they can't remember if it was a rape or consensual" even though it was _never_ a question that it was a rape or people like Savior trying to claim this almost never happens. It's not cool.



She's victim-shaming?  Again I was of the understanding her argument was that she didn't approve of it but gave the reality of how it is there.


----------



## Krory (Jul 21, 2013)

Mael said:


> Yes, yes I have...and what I trying to get at was that there wasn't an inherent ass-backwards from birth so that anything coming out was completely ass-backwards.  I was of the understanding that she was saying "it sucks but this is how it is and it won't change soon sadly."
> 
> Am I wrong?



I think he means the part where Rania called her an idiot for reporting it because she was unfamiliar with the laws there, as her employers did not - as they are required - tell her (but that's her own fault apparently), and then tried to twist the story claiming the woman said she couldn't remember if it was a rape or consensual sex... even though every stretch of the way, the woman said it was a flat-out rape.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 21, 2013)

No, she was victim-blaming.


----------



## Mael (Jul 21, 2013)

krory said:


> I think he means the part where Rania called her an idiot for reporting it because she was unfamiliar with the laws there, as her employers did not - as they are required - tell her (but that's her own fault apparently), and then tried to twist the story claiming the woman said she couldn't remember if it was a rape or consensual sex... even though every stretch of the way, the woman said it was a flat-out rape.



Ah ok...yeah then that lends credence to the argument of conducting a proper fucking investigation.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Jul 21, 2013)

wow. I feel bad for her. of course I am not surprised these animals have such laws and almost endorse treating women so poorly. you shouldn't expect much from animals in certain parts of the world.

I remember my cousin said she was planning to go to one of these places to teach esl because it paid well. i drove to her house and berated her for house until she changed her mind. don't risk it!


----------



## Krory (Jul 22, 2013)

Rania said:


> Consensual sex is illegal in Dubai but nobody is dumb enough to freaking report it to the police. How else will they find out? Unless you're like this Norwegian woman who wasn't even sure if she had sex or got raped so she asks the authorities for help. Idiot.



Everything was about this woman being "dumb" or an "idiot." It's not like she went there to have fun or go on vacation - she went there as _business_. She was sent there as a representative by her company and its bosses, and the company and bosses neglected to inform her of _any_ customs or laws of the area. She was there for two years and was never told, "By the way, you're PROBABLY going to get raped. If you do, just let it slide, you know?"

When she went to report it, the hotel lobby asked if she was certain if she wanted to involve the police, _never_ telling her the consequences, like it was some sick game for them to laugh at her behind her back and go, "Oh ho ho, she's in for it now!"

And as is custom in Dubai, the police _didn't even identify her by name_ as being an "alleged sexual assault victim." The only reason she managed to get ahold of someone to help her is because another detainee was kind enough to lend her a phonecard to call her stepfather.


----------



## Krory (Jul 22, 2013)

And with stories such as a Dubai man posting a video of an Emirati brutally beating a South Asian driver with a rope-band over an alternative, and getting arrested for "sharing it" (whereas the Emirati man who did the beating was never pursued), you have to wonder how anyone can defend this.


----------



## Spock (Jul 22, 2013)

Normality said:


> The shitty country she lives in has already poisoned her brain.



Reeks of passive aggressive racism. You've made it very clear now that you hate anyone from that part of the world. You seem to like to exploit chances offered by such circumstances to capitlize on anything in order to attack members who have affiliation with the Middle East. 

Fucking reflect on the story before spouting your usual racist bullshit. 




> But Dalelv ? who?s now camped up in the Norwegian Seamen?s Centre in Oud Metha ? says she is going to appeal the case. Speaking to Gulf News, she says she was encouraged by her former boss early on after the incident to tell authorities that the sex was consensual, and not rape. He allegedly told her it would lead to a quicker resolution of the case and that it wouldn?t go to court. ?At that point, I didn?t want to go to court. I just wanted to go home, so I took that advice. And that?s the biggest mistake I?ve ever made.?
> 
> The case did go to court, and that?s when Dalelv changed her story back to her original statement, claiming she was raped. ?I can?t blame anyone else here but me, because nobody forced me to say it. I just wish I hadn?t taken that advice.? She?s now trying to challenge the case and has lodged a formal appeal. ?I?m going to stay and fight this. I know I haven?t done anything wrong,? Dalelv says.


It was indeed a mistake to have gone to the authority to claim it was consensual sex. I can only imagine the person who advised her to do that wanted to set her up. What a contemptible creature.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 22, 2013)

But Normality is right, it has poisoned her brain. Even before that she brought up the woman's manner of dress, as if that even matters here.


----------



## Krory (Jul 22, 2013)

Mael deleted it, but will respond anyway - yes, an Indonesian woman was beheaded after she killed her employer in self-defense as he tried to rape her.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> But Normality is right, it has poisoned her brain. Even before that she brought up the woman's manner of dress, as if that even matters here.


Manner of dress doesn't cause rape.


----------



## Jagger (Jul 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> Inbred*
> 
> And explain yourself.


Thanks.

And I think I don't have to do it when others clearly did it for me.


----------



## Sanity Check (Jul 22, 2013)

krory said:


> Facts



Substitute facts for irony, you may better comprehend what you're missing in lyfe.


----------



## Spock (Jul 22, 2013)

> The pair's defence lawyers said the woman - who did not appear in court - had not seen the kiss herself, but had been told by her *two-year-old* child that the girl had seen them kissing.



Lol wat da


----------



## Spock (Jul 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> But Normality is right, it has poisoned her brain. Even before that she brought up the woman's manner of dress, as if that even matters here.



She already stated that the clothes thing was not her personal belief but how the system perceive rape cases. 

A system, and several systems, which need to change desperately. 

Secondly, the latest comment was distasteful,yes, not defending but Normality was being obtrusively opportunistic.


----------



## Koppachino (Jul 22, 2013)

Having grown up in Dubai and lived in the U.S for the past 5 years, it's funny to see all of you arguing. Most (if not all) of you have only one perspective, either a Dubai-based one or a Western one, and you're acting like you understand everything about the other country.

Yes, this kind of stuff happens in Dubai; a huge reason why I don't want to live there. Anything to do with sex, and authorities immediately look to blame the woman, that's just how it is. Dubai is extremely strict towards anything non-Islamic (pre-marital sex, alcohol) but it's also a lot more liberal than 99% of Arab countries. Because of the alcohol test, the bias of the court just assumes that she was drunk and had sex. She isn't in the wrong here, but that's the way the justice system is there. Flawed? Extremely.

And Rania, people like you are a prime example of the idiotic thinking in Dubai. The woman suspected that she was raped and told the police; that's the natural reaction of most people. You're calling her an idiot because of that? Yes, if she grew up in Dubai, she likely wouldn't have involved the police (mainly because of the alcohol), but she didn't. Get over yourself and try to take the perspective of someone else. Also, being a woman, you would think that you would be more likely to empathize with her. It's a shame how one-dimensional your thinking is.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 22, 2013)

Koppachino said:


> Having grown up in Dubai and lived in the U.S for the past 5 years, it's funny to see all of you arguing. Most (if not all) of you have only one perspective, either a Dubai-based one or a Western one, and you're acting like you understand everything about the other country.
> 
> Yes, this kind of stuff happens in Dubai; a huge reason why I don't want to live there. Anything to do with sex, and authorities immediately look to blame the woman, that's just how it is. Dubai is extremely strict towards anything non-Islamic (pre-marital sex, alcohol) but it's also a lot more liberal than 99% of Arab countries. Because of the alcohol test, the bias of the court just assumes that she was drunk and had sex. She isn't in the wrong here, but that's the way the justice system is there. Flawed? Extremely.
> 
> And Rania, people like you are a prime example of the idiotic thinking in Dubai. The woman suspected that she was raped and told the police; that's the natural reaction of most people. You're calling her an idiot because of that? Yes, if she grew up in Dubai, she likely wouldn't have involved the police (mainly because of the alcohol), but she didn't. Get over yourself and try to take the perspective of someone else. Also, being a woman, you would think that you would be more likely to empathize with her. It's a shame how one-dimensional your thinking is.



The thing is that what you're saying is exactly why we're calling them sexist. No one cares if they're better than most Islamic countries. An innocent woman is still in jail for their bullshit beliefs.


----------



## Koppachino (Jul 22, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The thing is that what you're saying is exactly why we're calling them sexist. No one cares if they're better than most Islamic countries. An innocent woman is still in jail for their bullshit beliefs.



I'm saying that people are talking as if Dubai is an extremist country, when it just isn't. Yes, they're sexist as hell. Also, this kind of stuff happens a lot - not just sex cases, but other crimes, and a large amount get covered up. Dubai loves to protect its reputation: Tall buildings and pretty lights on the outside, since that's all people will notice. 

This just went high-profile largely because it's a white woman. I'm glad it did go high profile, but I wouldn't be surprised if she still has to carry out the sentence. It's happened before, it'll happen again. It's an Islamic country, no surprise that they're extremely repressed. But, the same way the West looks at them as idiots, they look back the same way. Just an endless cycle that leads nowhere.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Jul 22, 2013)

Spock said:


> Reeks of passive aggressive racism. You've made it very clear now that you hate anyone from that part of the world. You seem to like to exploit chances offered by such circumstances to capitlize on anything in order to attack members who have affiliation with the Middle East.
> 
> Fucking reflect on the story before spouting your usual racist bullshit.
> 
> ...



What are you even saying ? How was my comment racist ? I'm not even going to ask if you're dumb because I think you've already proven that fact already.


----------



## Spock (Jul 22, 2013)

Normality said:


> What are you even saying ? How was my comment racist ? I'm not even going to ask if you're dumb because I think you've already proven that fact already.



Because you are very opportunistic. All the members who were upset about Rania's last comment wrote thorough arguments on why what she wrote was perceived unacceptable. 

You on the other hand, and given your history, did not even attempt to, instead quickly resorted to call her "poisoned" purely due to the country she's from.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 22, 2013)

Released! 





> A Norwegian woman at the centre of a Dubai rape case dispute has been pardoned and is free to leave Dubai, she has said.
> 
> Interior designer Marte Deborah Dalelv was on a business trip in Dubai when she says she was raped in March.
> 
> ...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 22, 2013)

erictheking said:


> Released!


Now we need to get off this oil so these fall back into the stone age. They've got no business in the twenty first century.


----------



## Rania (Jul 22, 2013)

damnnn lesh klhom 3laya. 

In the article it says that she consumed alcohol, had sex (since there was no evidence that suggests she was raped apart from her own testimony, + she requires at least 4 male witnesses to have seen it happening), they probably concluded that she may have been disoriented and is exaggerating the situation in her favor. The law is always going to argue that the victim must have put herself in a vulnerable position to invite unwelcome acts of sexual aggression, whether she was walking outside without a male companion (usually her husband), acting like a drunk emotional whore in a public area, wearing indecent clothing etc. Call it what you want, but this is how things work here.



> And Rania, people like you are a prime example of the idiotic thinking in Dubai. The woman suspected that she was raped and told the police; that's the natural reaction of most people. You're calling her an idiot because of that? Yes, if she grew up in Dubai, she likely wouldn't have involved the police (mainly because of the alcohol), but she didn't. Get over yourself and try to take the perspective of someone else. Also, being a woman, you would think that you would be more likely to empathize with her. It's a shame how one-dimensional your thinking is.



But I'm not representing my way of thinking here, I'm just trying to help make people come to terms with how rape cases are handled in this region, given their certain circumstances. Maybe it's unfair but I called her an idiot only because she doesn't know any better.



> And with stories such as a Dubai man posting a video of an Emirati brutally beating a South Asian driver with a rope-band over an alternative, and getting arrested for "sharing it" (whereas the Emirati man who did the beating was never pursued), you have to wonder how anyone can defend this.



People on this forum enthusiastically talk about these issues and they don't even live here. Meanwhile, I live here and I'm thinking.. whatever. I've just heard it all before and nothing quite surprises me anymore.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 22, 2013)

You calling her an idiot is only indicative of how even that society's warped views on rape have affected your own. You too blame the victim, rather than the perpetrators' lack of self-control and even moreso, lack of basic decency and I say personally, humanity.

So what if she consumed alcohol? That's not an invitation to anything. She says she was raped, and for you to go on about her not being able to discern the difference between consensual sex and rape, calling her an idiot for it, is disgusting.


----------



## Zaru (Jul 22, 2013)

I'm torn on this.

On one hand, obviously the laws regarding alcohol, sex and by extension rape (4 male witnesses is what you usually call a gangrape) in that country are utter bullshit.

On the other hand, if you want to get shitfaced, get your inner slut on and have sex with strangers, don't fucking do it in a muslim country. She's lucky that she somehow got out of this.


----------



## Hand Banana (Jul 22, 2013)

Bitches gonna bitch.


----------



## Rania (Jul 22, 2013)

> You calling her an idiot is only indicative of how even that society's warped views on rape have affected your own. You too blame the victim, rather than the perpetrators' lack of self-control and even moreso, lack of basic decency and I say personally, humanity.
> 
> So what if she consumed alcohol? That's not an invitation to anything. She says she was raped, and for you to go on about her not being able to discern the difference between consensual sex and rape, calling her an idiot for it, is disgusting.



The reason why I said that was because I'm only 17 years old, I drink alcohol (even though the legal drinking age is 21 and you need to have a special permit for that) and dress like any western girl would in public, I still don't get caught or even worse raped because I know what my limits are in this country and how to avoid getting involved with law. It's true that she doesn't have the benefit that I have, but she should have at least educated herself a little before coming into a Muslim country.


----------



## Subarashii (Jul 22, 2013)

Zaru said:


> I'm torn on this.
> 
> On one hand, obviously the laws regarding alcohol, sex and by extension rape (4 male witnesses is what you usually call a gangrape) in that country are utter bullshit.
> 
> On the other hand, if you want to get shitfaced, get your inner slut on and have sex with strangers, don't fucking do it in a muslim country. She's lucky that she somehow got out of this.



It's not like she went there to party, she went there on business, so she had to go.  I don't know what sane person would go to a muslim country to party.



> The reason why I said that was because I'm only 17 years old, I drink alcohol (even though the legal drinking age is 21 and you need to have a special permit for that) and dress like any western girl would in public, I still don't get caught or even worse raped because I know what my limits are in this country and how to avoid getting involved with law. It's true that she doesn't have the benefit that I have, but she should have at least educated herself a little before coming into a Muslim country.



But if you were raped, it would be your fault because you drink and wear western clothes?

You drink, she drank
You wear western clothes, she wears western clothes
You know better, she doesn't so she deserved to be raped?!?

She's over 21 and I sure she knows her limits too.


----------



## Rania (Jul 22, 2013)

> But if you were raped, it would be your fault because you drink and wear western clothes?
> 
> You drink, she drank
> You wear western clothes, she wears western clothes
> ...



But where do I drink and with who? Do I trust them? Everytime I go out I'm surrounded by my friends, so it's not like I'm walking around with my drunk ass hanging out waiting to get raped by some stranger.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 22, 2013)

And if a gang of men roll up and abduct you? The fact that you'd have alcohol in your system would be sufficient by your country's standards to put the blame on you. No plan is ever foolproof, and it is ridiculous to even have to go through that because the men aren't expected and held liable to conduct themselves in a proper manner.


----------



## Krory (Jul 22, 2013)

Rania said:


> But where do I drink and with who? Do I trust them? Everytime I go out I'm surrounded by my friends, so it's not like I'm walking around with my drunk ass hanging out waiting to get raped by some stranger.



And neither did she. She was at _a business meeting_ where she was drinking lightly with _co-workers she knew for years_, when another co-worker assaulted her. If you're going to defend the victim-shaming, rapist-supporting ignorance at least get the story straight.


----------



## Subarashii (Jul 22, 2013)

Rania said:


> But where do I drink and with who? Do I trust them? Everytime I go out I'm surrounded by my friends, so it's not like I'm walking around with my drunk ass hanging out waiting to get raped by some stranger.







I realize the studies were done in the US but I don't think rape is much different across cultures, i.e. the majority of rapes are by someone you know.  Unless you're partying with just girls, just ignore those stats.


----------



## Krory (Jul 22, 2013)

Subarashii said:


> I realize the studies were done in the US but I don't think rape is much different across cultures, i.e. the majority of rapes are by someone you know.  Unless you're partying with just girls, just ignore those stats.



As was the case here, and with the Indonesian maid that was beheaded.


----------



## Subarashii (Jul 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> And if a gang of men roll up and abduct you? The fact that you'd have alcohol in your system would be sufficient by your country's standards to put the blame on you. No plan is ever foolproof, and it is ridiculous to even have to go through that *because the men aren't expected and held liable to conduct themselves in a proper manner*.



This!
Are muslim men, or men in general not held to the same regard as women?  Are men just hormone fueled, walking boners with no sense of reason or logic or justice or self control?  Why are men portrayed so primitively?
This society is bad for women AND men.


----------



## Alicia (Jul 22, 2013)

Rania, it's fine to acknowledge the law and comprehend the reasoning behind it, but you should know when a law is flawed. Every country has it's own share of flawed laws; e.g. here in my country, multinational corporations have to pay zero taxes because a law dictates it.


----------



## Rania (Jul 22, 2013)

krory said:


> And neither did she. She was at _a business meeting_ where she was drinking lightly with _co-workers she knew for years_, when another co-worker assaulted her. If you're going to defend the victim-shaming, rapist-supporting ignorance at least get the story straight.



So where were the rest of her co-workers when all this happened? And I'm not supporting anybody here, I don't want to take any sides, the victim or the rapist. 



> And if a gang of men roll up and abduct you? The fact that you'd have alcohol in your system would be sufficient by your country's standards to put the blame on you. No plan is ever foolproof, and it is ridiculous to even have to go through that because the men aren't expected and held liable to conduct themselves in a proper manner.



Blame me for what? Kidnapping myself when there are a bunch of my friends that can testify that they saw me being abducted by strangers? Sure, they would still charge me for underage drinking, but that's why you don't drink in public places. If you've been drinking heavily the night, you leave with your friends or catch a cabbie quietly and go to your house or wherever.

The closest I've been to getting raped is when I was at a mall with friends and this guy I don't know named Muhannad (later found out) came up to me by surprise and kissed me on my lips and then ran off as I stood there completely shocked.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jul 22, 2013)

Rania said:


> But where do I drink and with who? Do I trust them? Everytime I go out *I'm surrounded by my friends*, so it's not like I'm walking around with my drunk ass hanging out waiting to get* raped by some stranger.*



You do know a lot of women are raped by men they know, right?


----------



## Mochi (Jul 22, 2013)

^ He wanted to steal your ehhh how am I gonna call that.. lips virginity?


----------



## Savior (Jul 22, 2013)

erictheking said:


> Released!



Released as expected. What now?


----------



## Krory (Jul 22, 2013)

Rania said:


> So where were the rest of her co-workers when all this happened? And I'm not supporting anybody here, I don't want to take anybody sides, the victim or the rapist.



Clearly not there... or knowing how fucked up that country is, probably jerking off while watching - it was pointed out in the case of the Australian woman that was gang-raped, people just stood and there and staring and pointing at her bruised, broken body like she was a carnival sideshow. Like, "Haha ha ha! She has three broken ribs and her face is so bruised she can barely see! She sure had THAT coming, silly white devil!"




> Blame me for what? Kidnapping myself when there are a bunch of my friends that can testify that they saw me being abducted by strangers? Sure, they would still charge me for underage drinking, but that's why you don't drink in public places. If you've been drinking heavily the night, you leave with your friends or catch a cabbie quietly.



See: the case of the Australian woman who went there to work, as she was offered a manager position... only to be drugged and raped and brutalized by three of her co-workers. Her superiors there knew about it and ignored her. People heard violent screams and the police were dispatched and found the three naked men and her unconscious, beaten body. They left her there. She woke up in her own apartment barely able to move, and the _best_ legal advice she was given was telling her to _not_ admit she was drugged by her co-workers because she could have received a life imprisonment due to their asinine drug laws. She ended up serving eight months of an eleven month sentence - the _same_ exact sentence the three attackers got _after confessing to rape_.

And one thing this whole "She's free!" celebration of the Norwegian woman leaves out... she wasn't cleared of her "crimes." What was done was they basically removed any record of the attack and incident, pretending as if it never happened. Which means that her attacker is let off the hook and can _never_ be brought up on this again for this case. So to reiterate, the _only_ thing you can do about being raped and brutalized in Dubai is to just magically pretend it never happened.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 22, 2013)

Savior said:


> Released as expected. What now?



Except it wasn't, and had it been left up to them would never have been the case. Furthermore it was stupid that she was jailed to begin with.


----------



## Krory (Jul 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Except it wasn't, and had it been left up to them would never have been the case. Furthermore it was stupid that she was jailed to begin with.



And again, people don't realize what it took for her to "get released."


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jul 22, 2013)

Savior said:


> Released as expected. *What now?*



They're still idiots for arresting her in the first place?


----------



## Mael (Jul 22, 2013)

Savior said:


> Released as expected. What now?



You got some minerals to be this arrogant y'know that?  So far your arguments displayed have been defensive and bratty whines.


----------



## Krory (Jul 22, 2013)

ImperatorMortis said:


> They're still idiots for arresting her in the first place?



And now her attacker is deemed just as "innocent" as she is.

Hell, it's likely if he _really_ wanted to torture her he could admit to the attack and get her thrown back in prison for a couple months just to fuck with her now.

_How's that for forward thinking?_


----------



## WT (Jul 22, 2013)

She was drunk and had sex with a (western) colleague. 

Didn't know about this detail before.

First and foremost, Alcohol is a forbidden drug in these countries. Don't get drunk.

Second, because you are drunk, it'll be easier for you to allow someone to fuck you but in reality, because you cant make a rational decision, this is considered to be rape.

She is partly to blame for this.

Regardless, laws in Dubai need to be reviewed asap.


----------



## Krory (Jul 22, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> She was drunk and had sex with a (western) colleague.
> 
> Didn't know about this detail before.



Probably because that's not the detail - she was forced into his room when she asked him for help, he held her there, and a raped her. If you're going to victim-shame, at least _try_ to get something right.


----------



## WT (Jul 22, 2013)

krory said:


> Probably because that's not the detail - she was forced into his room when she asked him for help, he held her there, and a raped her. If you're going to victim-shame, at least _try_ to get something right.



Read the bbc article posted by Erictheking. Says nothing about that. She was out on a night with colleagues and got drunk

If what you say is true and it really is true, then yeah, its alot more fucked up than my version of the story.


----------



## Savior (Jul 22, 2013)

krory said:


> Probably because that's not the detail - she was forced into his room when she asked him for help, he held her there, and a raped her. If you're going to victim-shame, at least _try_ to get something right.



Allegedly.

Conflicting reports actually.



> She said they left the nightclub where they were drinking, according to her prosecution statement, at 3am and went to the hotel where they were staying near Safa Park.
> 
> Dalelv claimed to prosecutors that H.A. suggested that she sleep in his room to wake up for an early business meeting.
> 
> The woman undressed and slept in her underwear on the bed while the Sudanese slept on the couch for a while before he moved to a bed beside her, she claimed.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> You got some minerals to be this arrogant y'know that?  So far your arguments displayed have been defensive and bratty whines.



More like demented.


----------



## Savior (Jul 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> More like demented.



Resorting to insults means you've lost the debate.


----------



## Mael (Jul 22, 2013)

Savior said:


> Resorting to insults means you've lost the debate.



Not really, as insult simply accentuates the inane nature of the opposition's (you) argument, which is what it had been from the get-go, a sort of "NO U" mentality because of one's inability (you again) to see how messed up the judiciary system is of one particular Middle Eastern nation and thinking that the apple (UAE) is the same as the orange (West) to which it isn't even close.  Another gentleman, Ichi Sagato, did the same thing and was smacked down thoroughly because of the same arguments which warranted insult and derision.  Your "rule" is actually incorrect.  Insults automatically do not negate one's debate especially when context is weighed.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 22, 2013)

Savior said:


> Resorting to insults means you've lost the debate.



Not really, the nature of your arguments are demented, and so is your line of thinking when it comes to matters of rape, at least as far as the UAE is concerned.


----------



## Savior (Jul 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> Not really, as insult simply accentuates the inane nature of the opposition's (you) argument, which is what it had been from the get-go, a sort of "NO U" mentality because of one's inability (you again) to see how messed up the judiciary system is of one particular Middle Eastern nation and thinking that the apple (UAE) is the same as the orange (West) to which it isn't even close.  Another gentleman, Ichi Sagato, did the same thing and was smacked down thoroughly because of the same arguments which warranted insult and derision.  Your "rule" is actually incorrect.  Insults automatically do not negate one's debate especially when context is weighed.




So in your opinion if two people are debating and one of them has had enough and resorts to insults and violence, it's cool? Nothing wrong with that?


----------



## Mael (Jul 22, 2013)

Savior said:


> So in your opinion if two people are debating and one of them has had enough and resorts to insults and violence, it's cool? Nothing wrong with that?



But there was nothing of the sort...merely an addition that the arguments displayed (yours) were demented.  It was an opinion of an argument which is perfectly legitimate and shows no sign of defeat or concession because logically one knows there can be more when prompted to explain.

Where's the threat of violence? Are you making shit up for the lulz now?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 22, 2013)

Savior said:


> So in your opinion if two people are debating and one of them has had enough and resorts to insults and violence, it's cool? Nothing wrong with that?



That implies you actually had the ability to debate, clearly you don't. All you've been doing when you weren't deflecting from the issue, is spouting ignorant statements that blame the victim and have been refuted at every turn, each time of which you fail completely to refute.


----------



## Savior (Jul 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Not really, the nature of your arguments are demented, and so is your line of thinking when it comes to matters of rape, at least as far as the UAE is concerned.



I'm all for convicting rape with the harshest of penalties. In this case the woman was so intoxicated that it's plain silly to just take her word for it. Not to mention how she lied to the authorities and claimed it was just consensual sex. Guess what?, each country can make its own laws. Nobody forced her to work there. She chose to work in Dubai where it's against the law to have consensual sex. She admitted to it and was jailed. Seems like that's how the judicial system should be working? Unless you think certain foreigners should be exempt from the law?


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 22, 2013)

I can't fucking believe what I'm reading in here. Have any of you fucking cretins bothered to find out the facts behind this story? I'm going to paraphrase from the radio interview she gave the other day on the BBC:

She was on a routine business trip to Dubai - after the business was over, her and three of her female colleagues went on a night out, joined by some of her male colleagues who wanted to tag along. She went back to her hotel in a cab with a male colleague who was staying in the same hotel, and she asked him to walk her to her room because she had had a few and she trusted him - she had worked with him for a few years. 

He took her to his room instead - she clocked that it wasn't hers and refused to enter and asked him to take her to her own room, but he told her that since she was drunk she should sleep in his room and he'd wake her up for work. She refused but he dragged her in. She complied to calm the situation down and her intention was to drink a bottle of water, sober up a bit and go back to her room to bed. That was the last memory of her night. 

She woke up to find herself with all her clothes off on his bed, being raped. She thought she heard someone at the door but her attacker threatened her to keep quiet. She ran down to the hotel lobby as soon as possible and told them that she had been raped, and to call the police. They asked her if she was sure she wanted to call the police, to her confusion. When the police came she says she thought they were conducting themselves properly, until the time came when she gave her second statement at the police station. 

The policeman asked her "Did you call the police because you didn't like it?" She says that was when she knew they didn't believe her. They told her to wait in her cell as procedure, and gave her a piece of paper with a list of her items; money, passport, etc. After a few hours she went out and asked for her things back, but a policewoman said "No, we know what kind of woman you are, you got drunk and had sex with your boyfriend, go back in your cell, you're being held here (etc.)" She didn't know she was officially charged with "sex outside of marriage" and "drinking alcohol" until later. She was later charged in court with perjury - 'false rape', because the rapist didn't confess and she couldn't produce four male witnesses.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 22, 2013)

Savior said:


> I'm all for convicting rape with the harshest of penalties. In this case the woman was so intoxicated that it's plain silly to just take her word for it.



There you go, only proving me right. If she was that intoxicated then she would not have been able to consent, and it be the responsibility of the males themselves to have at the very least the basic decency not to rape her in a vulnerable state. Not to mention, it is only said she consumed alcohol, not how much; but of course, you and those like yourself just assume she was an alcoholic party girl.



> Not to mention how she lied to the authorities and claimed it was just consensual sex. Guess what?, each country can make its own laws. Nobody forced her to work there. She chose to work in Dubai where it's against the law to have consensual sex. She admitted to it and was jailed.



You're so full of shit. She consistently maintained the claim that she was raped. It was the twisted authorities that made the presumption that it was consensual and assumed she was lying about being raped, because like you, they are warped enough to blame the victim of rape rather than the offender. 

Each country can make its own laws, but that doesn't make them just. It's a moronic point to bring up.



> Seems like that's how the judicial system should be working? Unless you think certain foreigners should be exempt from the law?



No it shouldn't work like that. It should not be blaming the victim, but that goes back to what I said about your mindset on this matter.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 22, 2013)

Some real, vile scum showing themselves up in this thread. Sickening.


----------



## Jin-E (Jul 22, 2013)

UAE released her to keep the spotlight off their barbaric medieval laws. Hopefully, people wont forget about this so easily. That this autocratic sand pile is one of the worlds biggest tourism magnets is a fucking travesty.


----------



## Krory (Jul 22, 2013)

Jin-E said:


> UAE released her to keep the spotlight off their barbaric medieval laws. Hopefully, people wont forget about this so easily. That this autocratic sand pile is one of the worlds biggest tourism magnets is a fucking travesty.



Again - they only released her because they basically wiped away the whole thing. They "cleaned the slate" by which it means they are acting as if it never happened, meaning nothing can be done to the rapist now either. He is just as free and innocent as she is in their eyes.

YAY, JUSTICE.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 22, 2013)

She was 'pardoned'. For being raped. 

For exactly the reason described above by Jin-E.


----------



## Alicia (Jul 22, 2013)

being pardoned does not wipe the slate clean. pardoning is to forgive someone for committing a crime and cancel the tied penalty, but it does not erase records of the crime.

I presume the rapist got pardoned as well in this case.

wiping the slates would be better defined by granting amnesty instead.


----------



## Krory (Jul 22, 2013)

Daftvirgin said:


> being pardoned does not wipe the slate clean. pardoning is to forgive someone for committing a crime and cancel the tied penalty, but it does not erase records of the crime.
> 
> I presume the rapist got pardoned as well in this case.





> Dalelv's lawyer, Mahmoud Azab Abu Gareda, said the sheikh's pardon is "effectively a royal decree," which wipes the slate clean, leaving no record of her conviction.
> 
> This means the alleged perpetrator, who was charged with public intoxication and having sex outside of marriage, also walks free, he said.



**


----------



## WT (Jul 22, 2013)

Jin-E said:


> UAE released her to keep the spotlight off their barbaric medieval laws. Hopefully, people wont forget about this so easily. That this autocratic sand pile is one of the worlds biggest tourism magnets is a fucking travesty.



Its a tax free haven and has a huge number of awesome attractions.

Don't get drunk and put yourself into silly situations. 

Not very hard.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 22, 2013)

White Tiger says something stupid. What a surprise.


----------



## WT (Jul 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> White Tiger says something stupid. What a surprise.



No its not stupid. The stupid ones are those who are genuinely surprised that getting drunk and walking off with men wont lead to unwanted situations, especially in the middle east.

Its easy to have fun in Dubai, just dont get drunk.


----------



## Alicia (Jul 22, 2013)

krory said:


> **



ah, I was not informed of that piece of info, cheers.

I'd like to have the source of that though.


----------



## Krory (Jul 22, 2013)

Daftvirgin said:


> ah, I was not informed of that piece of info, cheers.
> 
> I'd like to have the source of that though.



.


----------



## kandaron (Jul 22, 2013)

According to some sources the "rapist" was sentenced 13 months for *alcohol consumption* and having consensual sex.

If that's true and he was drinking, then the question is: Was he drunk? If yes, and if there is no evidence of rape, then both of them walking free is the "correct" decision, since it's her word against his. (It would help to read his side of the story, but that's unlikely to happen)


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Jul 22, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> No its not stupid. The stupid ones are those who are genuinely surprised that getting drunk and walking off with men wont lead to unwanted situations, especially in the middle east.
> 
> Its easy to have fun in Dubai, just dont get drunk.



By that logic:

Women should only travel in female packs.
Don't trust men.
Women always loses in every single situation.


----------



## Krory (Jul 22, 2013)

Though according to NBC, yeah, he was just pardoned as well:



> Her alleged attacker, she said, received a 13-month sentence for extramarital sex and alcohol consumption.
> 
> The man she accused of raping her - a colleague - has also been pardoned, a Norwegian official has said.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 22, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> No its not stupid. The stupid ones are those who are genuinely surprised that getting drunk and walking off with men wont lead to unwanted situations, especially in the middle east.
> 
> Its easy to have fun in Dubai, just dont get drunk.



So, don't be a woman in Dubai or you risk getting raped and then thrown into prison.

You backwards fucking gimp.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 22, 2013)

kandaron said:


> According to some sources the "rapist" was sentenced 13 months for *alcohol consumption* and having consensual sex.
> 
> If that's true and he was drinking, then the question is: Was he drunk? If yes, and if there is no evidence of rape, then both of them walking free is the "correct" decision, since it's her word against his. (It would help to read his side of the story, but that's unlikely to happen)



His side of the story is that he took her back to his hotel room and that he never touched her after that. The court didn't believe him and charged him with sex outside of marriage. 

They didn't believe the victim because she didn't have four male witnesses, smfh.  Apparently they only consider physical evidence to the extent that there must be clear forensic evidence of "resistance" to the rape, which they say they didn't find.


----------



## kandaron (Jul 22, 2013)

erictheking said:


> His side of the story is that he took her back to his hotel room and that he never touched her after that. The court didn't believe him and charged him with sex outside of marriage.


A source would help, if you don't mind.



erictheking said:


> Apparently they only consider physical evidence to the extent that there must be clear forensic evidence of "resistance" to the rape, which they say they didn't find.


how would they prove she was raped if he too was drunk? (Not a rhetorical question)


----------



## Rania (Jul 22, 2013)

Mochi said:


> ^ He wanted to steal your ehhh how am I gonna call that.. lips virginity?



I don't know what he was thinking but I was standing there in my place totally shocked for like 2 hrs lol.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 22, 2013)

kandaron said:


> A source would help, if you don't mind.
> 
> how would they prove she was raped if he too was drunk? (Not a rhetorical question)



http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01d2gm2 - a segment of this clip discusses his side of the story.

A medical examination was carried out on the victim and DNA evidence was collected - Dalelv claims that both tests produced evidence to support her case that she was raped. 

Therefore he would have been proven beyond doubt to have lied, by physical evidence, because he claimed he didn't touch her. He didn't claim to have had even consensual sex with her. 




His whole story of innocence relied on the claim that he wasn't drunk - he took her to his room because _she_ was drunk, for her own sake, according to him.

What evidence do you have that he was drunk? I don't believe he said that at any point, nor did she, nor I presume, did any witnesses (their colleagues). She wasn't drunk when the rape was taking place. 

The underlying problem with this entire "trial" is that it was in a Sharia court, clearly. It doesn't rely on evidence, or have the same standards for evidence, in the way that other secular courts do.


----------



## Alicia (Jul 22, 2013)

Indeed, a Sharia court favors eyewitness testimonies over forensic proof.


----------



## Spock (Jul 22, 2013)

erictheking said:


> They didn't believe the victim because she *didn't have four male* witnesses, smfh.  Apparently they only consider physical evidence to the extent that there must be clear forensic evidence of "resistance" to the rape, which they say they didn't find.



That's not entirely true. They didnt believe her because she gave conflicting accounts due to fear...? Someone told her to claim it was consensual because it would supposedly reduce her sentence if she ever received one. When she regretted that advise thus giving the truthful account later the police claimed false report. The no resistance "evidence" was the cherry on top of that.


----------



## WT (Jul 22, 2013)

erictheking said:


> So, don't be a woman in Dubai or you risk getting raped and then thrown into prison.
> 
> You backwards fucking gimp.



Seems like you're letting your emotions run wildly. 

There are uncountable number of women and western women in Dubai. I didn't mention anything about banning women and whatnot. You have to be sensible and adhere to their laws and you'll be fine.

Now, you may argue that the laws are stupid but thats a completely different debate.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 22, 2013)

Spock said:


> That's not entirely true. They didnt believe her because she gave conflicting accounts due to fear...? Someone told her to claim it was consensual because it would supposedly reduce her sentence if she ever received one. When she regretted that advise thus giving the truthful account later the police claimed false report. The no resistance "evidence" was the cherry on top of that.



I see - thanks for that. Do you have a source by any chance, showing that this was the reason she was charged with perjury?

However, her initial and second statements to the police were that she was raped. In desperation and on the advice of her boss (of the Qatari firm she worked for) who assured her that changing her statement to deny that she was raped would give her a better chance of getting home sooner. When she later reverted back to her original statement, her boss fired her.


----------



## Spock (Jul 22, 2013)

Sure 




Yup, her boss is a filthy creature, there is no doubt in my mind that he wanted to set her up. Because everyone knows in the Gulf region you don't just go to the authorities and say you had sex willingly. 

How Janet Jackson is married to that guy is beyond me.


----------



## kandaron (Jul 22, 2013)

erictheking said:


> A medical examination was carried out on the victim and DNA evidence was collected - Dalelv claims that both tests produced evidence to support her case that she was raped.


That she was raped or that there was a sexual intercourse?



erictheking said:


> Therefore he would have been proven beyond doubt to have lied, by physical evidence, because he claimed he didn't touch her. He didn't claim to have had even consensual sex with her.


Proving he was lying doesn't prove he raped her.


erictheking said:


> He didn't claim to have had even consensual sex with her.


Understandably, since consensual sex is outlawed in Dubai.


> The Sudanese, who came to Dubai with Dalelv on a business visit from Qatar, pleaded guilty and confessed to having consensual sex.



Though i'm not sure how reliable the gulfnews is.



erictheking said:


> His whole story of innocence relied on the claim that he wasn't drunk - he took her to his room because _she_ was drunk, for her own sake, according to him.


It's understandable that he would make such lies even if they did have consensual sex.



erictheking said:


> What evidence do you have that he was drunk?


I don't, which is why I said:


kandaron said:


> the question is: Was he drunk? If yes....





erictheking said:


> The underlying problem with this entire "trial" is that it was in a Sharia court, clearly. It doesn't rely on evidence, or have the same standards for evidence, in the way that other secular courts do.


Of course, their system is screwed up, that much is given. What i'm interested in however, is what the verdict would have been if there was a fair trail.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jul 22, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Seems like you're letting your emotions run wildly.
> 
> There are uncountable number of women and western women in Dubai. I didn't mention anything about banning women and whatnot. You have to be sensible and adhere to their laws and you'll be fine.
> 
> Now, you may argue that the laws are stupid but thats a completely different debate.



Who said anything about banning women? Your 'advice' amounts to "if you're a woman visiting the Middle East, you must accept that you may be raped at any time (and thrown into prison for it). Don't act surprised when you do, but have a good time". You're blaming 'stupid' women for getting raped, ffs...

I will not degrade myself by having a debate about whether the rapist or the victim is to blame for rape - but you don't have to be drunk, or go off with strange men, or wear revealing clothes to get raped, in Dubai or in any place. It goes without saying that the fact these factors are considered by such courts in determining blame is morally obscene. 

The stupidity and moral bankruptcy of these laws isn't a different debate, it is the central one, and all women in that region, foreign or not, are endangered by it.



kandaron said:


> That she was raped or that there was a sexual intercourse?
> 
> Proving he was lying doesn't prove he raped her.
> Understandably, since consensual sex is outlawed in Dubai.
> ...



It's very obvious that she was raped, otherwise she wouldn't have reported anything. To determine what a verdict in a fair trial would have been requires more (and more reliable) information than we probably have access to, and possibly more than we ever will have access to.


----------



## MegaultraHay (Jul 22, 2013)

*Janet Jackson?s husband fires employee after she reported rape*



> Janet Jackson?s Qatari husband has allegedly fired an employee from his firm soon after she reported being raped in a Dubai hotel, according to media reports on Sunday.
> 
> After filing the rape report, 24-year-old Norwegian Marte Deborah Dalelv was sentenced to 16 months in prison after being accused of sexual relations outside of marriage, strictly forbidden in Shariah (Islamic) law. On March 6, Dalelv reported that she was raped by a colleague whilst on a business trip from Qatar with Al Mana Interiors, the company belonging to Janet Jackson?s husband Wissam al-Mana.
> 
> ...



relevant.


----------



## Krory (Jul 22, 2013)

MegaultraHay said:


> relevant.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 22, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> No its not stupid. The stupid ones are those who are genuinely surprised that getting drunk and walking off with men wont lead to unwanted situations, especially in the middle east.
> 
> Its easy to have fun in Dubai, just dont get drunk.




Looks like there's no shortage off victim blame that White Tiger is willing to throw around.


----------



## Xyloxi (Jul 22, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> No its not stupid. The stupid ones are those who are genuinely surprised that getting drunk and walking off with men wont lead to unwanted situations, especially in the middle east.
> 
> Its easy to have fun in Dubai, just dont get drunk.



That is hardly sensible behaviour, but she shouldn't be punished for the actions of others. The men decided to rape her, they're clearly the ones who are in the wrong here.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 22, 2013)

Oh, this might get some people mad...but I wonder if some of these apologists are essentially conceding to the savagery Islamic theocratic culture promotes in its followers, officials, and citizenry?


----------



## Mael (Jul 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Oh, this might get some people mad...but I wonder if some of these apologists are essentially conceding to the savagery Islamic theocratic culture promotes in its followers, officials, and citizenry?



The only confirmed is Al Mudaari, who believes that women are so stupid, innocent, and tempting that he and Islam must contain them from the world, education, and other men.

Western women were simply devoid of Allah and thus deserve what they get amirite?


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Jul 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> The only confirmed is Al Mudaari, who believes that women are so stupid, innocent, and tempting that he and Islam must contain them from the world, education, and other men.
> 
> Western women were simply devoid of Allah and thus deserve what they get amirite?



I would rather die than get westernized.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 22, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> I would rather die than get westernized.


Of course not. Our women aren't nearly as subjugated and rapable.


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Jul 22, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Of course not. Our women are nearly as subjugated and rapable.



Don't you mean not nearly?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 22, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> Don't you mean not nearly?


Yeah that one.


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Jul 22, 2013)

I was being sarcastic, Savior. Just because I enjoy living in Canada does not make me less Muslim. I'd rather live here than in a place where my sister could get killed for not wearing a hijab.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 22, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> I was being sarcastic, Savior. Just because I enjoy living in Canada does not make me less Muslim. I'd rather live here than in a place where my sister could get killed for not wearing a hijab.


So you're not going to cut off her head because she ran around in the rain. I guess that's good news.


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Jul 22, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> So you're not going to cut off her head because she ran around in the rain. I guess that's good news.



So did you just assume I had the mentality of a radical because I am Muslim?


----------



## Yachiru (Jul 22, 2013)

If all Muslim women rose up and killed their oppressors, the world would be a much better place.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 22, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> So did you just assume I had the mentality of a radical because I am Muslim?


That was the joke. I don't think cutting off your family member's head is common in any culture because we're wired not to do that.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 22, 2013)

Savior said:


> You really think most Muslim women think they're being oppressed? That's ridiculous. Most of them are happy to be following their religion.



So were these people:


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Jul 22, 2013)

Savior said:


> You really think most Muslim women think they're being oppressed? That's ridiculous. Most of them are happy to be following their religion.



False consciousness.

I won't deny that most of them are happy. If anyone here actually believes that most Muslim women are sad and oppressed, then there might be some underlying issues that you'd need to get worked out.

Despite that, their "false happiness" is a moot point when most are on a leash.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Jul 22, 2013)

Spock said:


> Because you are very opportunistic. All the members who were upset about Rania's last comment wrote thorough arguments on why what she wrote was perceived unacceptable.
> 
> You on the other hand, and given your history, did not even attempt to, instead quickly resorted to call her "poisoned" purely due to the country she's from.



So that makes me a racist now ? Wow, you are soo smart. Anyways, what I said is the pure truth. Rania has had her brain hacked by the terrible, disgusting country she lives in. Lets not pretend like her line of thinking isn't being influenced by the shit hole she resides in. I know this is hard for you to understand but it's really not that complicated.


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jul 22, 2013)

rania is obviously a trolldupe u nimwits


----------



## Mael (Jul 22, 2013)

Savior said:


> You really think most Muslim women think they're being oppressed? That's ridiculous. Most of them are happy to be following their religion.



But it might be a good idea to ask the ones who aren't allowed to drive, who aren't allowed to go anywhere without a male escort, who aren't allowed to be educated lest they get shot or sprayed with acid, and who are given flimsy adultery charges to then be dragged into a soccer arena and shot point blank with a 7.62mm round.

They're only content when they're not being denied some basic privileges which in the case of several Muslim nations is pretty fucking stark.  Some nations make strides like Morocco or Turkey because they also stayed away from Islamism and idiotic Salafism.  Unfortunately it seems that austere Islam wants to cram it in there.


----------



## Spock (Jul 23, 2013)

Normality said:


> So that makes me a racist now ? Wow, you are soo smart. Anyways, what I said is the pure truth. Rania has had her brain hacked by the terrible, disgusting country she lives in. Lets not pretend like her line of thinking isn't being influenced by the shit hole she resides in. I know this is hard for you to understand but it's really not that complicated.



Opportunistic takes an opportunity.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2013)

Remember kids, spoiler tag your shit.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 23, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> So did you just assume I had the mentality of a radical because I am Muslim?


All muslims are radicals or borderline.


----------



## Spock (Jul 23, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> All muslims are radicals or borderline.



Is this Butcher v.2.0 ?


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 23, 2013)

Spock said:


> Is this Butcher v.2.0 ?


You know I'm speaking the truth. Your inner muslim-ism probably wants my head beheaded for saying things like this.

Eh? EH?


----------



## Spock (Jul 23, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> You know I'm speaking the truth. Your inner muslim-ism probably wants my head beheaded for saying things like this.
> 
> Eh? EH?



I think your inner KKK-ism wants me lynched. 

right right?


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 23, 2013)

Spock said:


> I think your inner* KKK-ism* wants me lynched.
> 
> right right?




Implying that I'm white. Bahahaahaa!

Muslims gonna mus.


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Jul 23, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> All muslims are radicals or borderline.



Just because I want this world cleansed of you, infidels, it doesn't make me radical. It makes me a purist and being pure is a good thing.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2013)

How does someone behead someone's head?


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 23, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> *How does someone behead someone's head*?


The allahu fuckbar way.


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> But it might be a good idea to ask the ones who aren't allowed to drive, who aren't allowed to go anywhere without a male escort,




Saudi Arabia is one country. A country that has many policies that most Muslims around the WORLD disagree with.


----------



## Spock (Jul 23, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> Don't tell me you are gonna come to my house and blow it up. Because I will be very sad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So you are not white, you are not black. Why don't you just say what you are, it's ok we are open minded and accepting .


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> All muslims are radicals or borderline.



Solid argument. Not like it's complete bs or anything. Keep up the good posting.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> Solid argument. Not like it's complete bs or anything. Keep up the good posting.


Danke sch?n@!


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> Saudi Arabia is one country. A country that has many policies that most Muslims around the WORLD disagree with.



And look at them make such powerful claims against Saudi Arabia. 

Oh and how about Iran?  Anyone stepping up to challenge their moral police?

Maybe we can also say the same for Pakistan too. 

It's not just one country, champ.  There are several and Salafists intend to increase that number.  Now stop naively defending.



Spock said:


> So you are not white, you are not black. Why don't you just say what you are, it's ok we are open minded and accepting .



Angry AZN.


----------



## Krory (Jul 23, 2013)

I remember when Exo wasn't just a lazy troll.


----------



## Subarashii (Jul 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> But it might be a good idea to ask the ones who aren't allowed to drive, who aren't allowed to go anywhere without a male escort, who aren't allowed to be educated lest they get shot or sprayed with acid, and who are given flimsy adultery charges to then be dragged into a soccer arena and shot point blank with a 7.62mm round.
> 
> They're only content when they're not being denied some basic privileges which in the case of several Muslim nations is pretty fucking stark.  Some nations make strides like Morocco or Turkey because they also stayed away from Islamism and idiotic Salafism.  Unfortunately it seems that austere Islam wants to cram it in there.




Gif irrelevant.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 23, 2013)

krory said:


> I remember when Exo wasn't just a lazy troll.


It's one of those days, man.


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

PROTIP: Explain your macro.


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Maybe we can also say the same for Pakistan too.




You must not know much about Pakistan to be including them in this. Might wanna actually do some real research buddy rather than reading Fox news.


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Jul 23, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> Don't tell me you are gonna come to my house and blow it up. Because I will be very sad.



That would be too easy. We would first rape all the women in your household and make all the men watch. Then we would force you to fuck your sisters and mothers... one by one. We would then sodomize you to further feminize you so you would know your place. Then we would give your youngest child a weapon and tell them that if they were to shoot one family member, that we would free the rest. We would continue this until every youngin has killed someone. Then we would bring our heavy-hitters, our HIV platoon. We would then rape all the girls who are too young to breed to death and impregnate everyone else, so they will always have a piece of us to remember forever. The rest will be burned to death.

Wait, wait.... this is more African than radical Islam. Never mind then.

Yea just watch out whenever you turn your car on, ExoSkel.


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> You must not know much about Pakistan to be including them in this. Might wanna actually do some real research buddy rather than reading Fox news.



Because I need Fox News to know about Lashkar e Jhangvi or the continuous effort to deny girls education which is why they shot Malala in the face?

Are you purposely being this stupid?


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 23, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> That would be too easy. We would first rape all the women in your household and make all the men watch. Then we would force you to fuck your sisters and mothers... one by one. We would then sodomize you to further feminize you so you would know your place. Then we would give your youngest child a weapon and tell them that if they were to shoot one family member, that we would free the rest. We would continue this until every youngin has killed someone. Then we would bring our heavy-hitters, our HIV platoon. We would then rape all the girls who are too young to breed to death and impregnate everyone else, so they will always have a piece of us to remember forever. The rest will be burned to death.
> 
> Yea just watch out whenever you turn your car on, ExoSkel.



So you are not gonna blow up my house?



> Wait, wait.... this is *more African than radical Islam*. Never mind then.


It's all the same shit, man. Btw, are they gonna fuck the dog too while at it?


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

Silly AZN, he won't.


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Jul 23, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> So you are not gonna blow up my house?



Do you own your home?

I don't want to trouble your landlords.


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Because I need Fox News to know about Lashkar e Jhangvi or the continuous effort to deny girls education which is why they shot Malala in the face?
> 
> Are you purposely being this stupid?



So because Malala was shot, it means the entire Pakistan society is against women being educated? 
Solid argument champ.


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> So because Malala was shot, it means the entire Pakistan society is against women being educated?
> Solid argument champ.



Seems to strongly be the case considering how Pakistanis think she's some part of a Western plot and that nobody is really making a concentrated effort to make strides in the country.  Oh but that's of course separate from the acid attacks and the bombings that take place like the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi attack on a bus of schoolgirls...which you conveniently ignored.

Thus, Pakistani society seems pretty complacent in Taliban groups and extreme Islam forcing women to only take Islamic education or barely anything.  

Again man, you really know nothing and you haven't shown me anything to prove you do know what you're talking about.  You are really this dumb or plain stubborn.  Is there some gluteal pain you suffer or something from me being right in how Pakistan treats its women?


----------



## Jagger (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> Solid argument. Not like it's complete bs or anything. Keep up the good posting.


The sames goes to you.


----------



## Gain (Jul 23, 2013)

this thread

[YOUTUBE]c4wHJqqud3U[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Spock (Jul 23, 2013)

Now I know who keeps creating the ProudAsian dupes.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 23, 2013)

I think I drone striked this entire thread.


----------



## Spock (Jul 23, 2013)

No, you just took a massive shit on it.


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> I think I drone striked this entire thread.



Silly Exo.  We all know Asians can't aim any weapon right.


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Silly Exo.  We all know Asians can't aim any weapon right.


We have some of the best Counter Strike team, while japan is good at playing gundam fps.


----------



## TSC (Jul 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> And look at them make such powerful claims against Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Oh and how about Iran?  Anyone stepping up to challenge their moral police?
> 
> ...





Savior said:


> You must not know much about Pakistan to be including them in this. Might wanna actually do some real research buddy rather than reading Fox news.



Mael one of the guys on this forum that probably has the best insight and knowledge concerning foreign affairs. Especially ones from Asia.




Ayanli said:


> That would be too easy. We would first rape all the women in your household and make all the men watch. Then we would force you to fuck your sisters and mothers... one by one. We would then sodomize you to further feminize you so you would know your place. Then we would give your youngest child a weapon and tell them that if they were to shoot one family member, that we would free the rest. We would continue this until every youngin has killed someone. Then we would bring our heavy-hitters, our HIV platoon. We would then rape all the girls who are too young to breed to death and impregnate everyone else, so they will always have a piece of us to remember forever. The rest will be burned to death.
> 
> Wait, wait.... this is more African than radical Islam. Never mind then.
> 
> Yea just watch out whenever you turn your car on, ExoSkel.



Exo is AZn. AZN are use to crazy sick stuff. That won't bother him.


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

But that's Yao Ming...a Chinamans.


----------



## RyokoForTheWin (Jul 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Silly Exo.  We all know Asians can't aim any weapon right.



I know I sure can't.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2013)

What's going on in here?


----------



## Krory (Jul 23, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> We have some of the best Counter Strike team, while japan is good at playing gundam fps.



Only to compensate.


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

BEHOLD!  I HAVE FOUND THE ULTIMATE COMEBACK AGAINST EXO!


----------



## ExoSkel (Jul 23, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> What's going on in here?


Nothing. just random muslims gonna mus stuff.


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

TSC said:


> Mael one of the guys on this forum that probably has the best insight and knowledge concerning foreign affairs. Especially ones from Asia.



Even if this were true, which is doubtful, it doesn't mean he's correct with his blatant generalizations with no actual evidence to back them up.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> Nothing. just random muslims gonna mus stuff.


I think you're causing the Muslims to Mus, you're stirring them up.


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> Even if this were true, which is doubtful, it doesn't mean he's correct with his blatant generalizations with no actual evidence to back them up.



What generalizations?  It's called the news.



Just because you're one of the few butthurt non-Westerners doesn't mean that you're correctly defending anything.


----------



## Syed (Jul 23, 2013)

TSC said:


> Mael one of the guys on this forum that probably has the best insight and knowledge concerning foreign affairs. Especially ones from Asia.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He's asian?! 

That may explain his aggressive and trollish behaviour, you know compensating for his small dick and all.


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I think you're causing the Muslims to Mus, you're stirring them up.



That really is a moronic statement. I assume you guys don't live in multicultural societies because there's no way you'd get by with your narrow minded, hate filled ideologies.


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

Exo is AZN yes, but I'm Caucasoid.


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> What generalizations?  It's called the news.
> 
> 
> 
> Just because you're one of the few butthurt non-Westerners doesn't mean that you're correctly defending anything.



Who says I'm a non-Westerner. Now you're making assumptions along with your generalizations. 

Not good.


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> That really is a moronic statement. I assume you guys don't live in multicultural societies because there's no way you'd get by with your narrow minded, hate filled ideologies.



We live in the United States and in metropolitan areas.

You're just again being hypersensitive and unable to see the problems in those particular areas, attacking with passionate whines and a NO U attitude with still being unable to prove anything.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> That really is a moronic statement. I assume you guys don't live in multicultural societies because there's no way you'd get by with your narrow minded, hate filled ideologies.


What did I say that was hate filled. I said he was baiting Muslims. Stop being overly sensitive, it makes ME think you don't live in a multicultural society when you can't deal with a joke.


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> What did I say that was hate filled. I said he was baiting Muslims. Stop being overly sensitive, it makes ME think you don't live in a multicultural society when you can't deal with a joke.



Lost cause.  He's just going to whine while never providing anything.


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jul 23, 2013)

i dont know how u guys can read and post this stuff without shaking ur heads in shame rly


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

Because you know better?


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Except it wasn't, and had it been left up to them would never have been the case. Furthermore it was stupid that she was jailed to begin with.



Screw ups were made on both sides. You can't blame the Dubai system without acknowledging that the woman lied to the police as well as broke the laws of the country. You don't get a pass for being a white European last I checked.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> Screw ups were made on both sides. You can't blame the Dubai system without acknowledging that the woman lied to the police as well as broke the laws of the country. You don't get a pass for being a white European last I checked.


Did they lock up the men who slept with her?


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> We live in the United States and in metropolitan areas.
> 
> You're just again being hypersensitive and unable to see the problems in those particular areas, attacking with passionate whines and a NO U attitude with still being unable to prove anything.



Or it could be argued that if you lived in one of the more multicultural cities in North America that your view would be a lot more sensible and realistic to the world we live in. Food for thought.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:
			
		

> Or it could be argued that if you lived in one of the more multicultural cities in North America that your view would be a lot more sensible and realistic to the world we live in. Food for thought.



Idiotic argument because it has nothing to do with this. We're a successful multicultural society that at the same time has strict demand for general assimilation into American society, and definitely no respect for that regressive Sharia bullshit that you seem so intent on defending.



Savior said:


> Screw ups were made on both sides. You can't blame the Dubai system without acknowledging that the woman lied to the police as well as broke the laws of the country. You don't get a pass for being a white European last I checked.



Jailing her wasn't a screw up, they intended to do so, and on the stereotype that she was just another drunken, promiscuous party girl. The Dubai system has jailed women for reporting rape before, and she didn't lie to police, she consistently kept up her claim of rape. It was the police that assumed she lied about rape due to perceiving her through the aforementioned stereotypes, and jailed her for it. Which shows an enormous problem in how warped the Dubai system is, and makes me wonder where your head is in that you defend it so adamantly in light of examples just like the woman's. Your claims have already been thoroughly refuted but you still persist in them, which again, goes back to what I said about you before.


----------



## RyokoForTheWin (Jul 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Just because you're one of the few butthurt non-Westerners doesn't mean that you're correctly defending anything.



There's only a few of them?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> Or it could be argued that if you lived in one of the more multicultural cities in North America that your view would be a lot more sensible and realistic to the world we live in. Food for thought.



Continue to avoid the question. 

And I live in a city that has a fair mix of whites, blacks, Mexicans, Middle Easterns and Asians. I hang out in the Middle Eastern part of town because that's where I get my hookah supplies. 

I'm multi-cultural as fuck, Son. 



Seto Kaiba said:


> Jailing her wasn't a screw up, they intended to do so, and on the stereotype that she was just another drunken, promiscuous party girl. The Dubai system has jailed women for reporting rape before, and she didn't like to police; the police assumed she lied about rape due to perceiving her through the aforementioned stereotypes, so your statement is full of shit.



Of course Dubai would never lie. I love how when it's the US government we assume a lie. But when it's an overly patriarchal theocracy they're telling the truth.


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> Or it could be argued that if you lived in one of the more multicultural cities in North America that your view would be a lot more sensible and realistic to the world we live in. Food for thought.



Wrong.

I live in the New England area and we're pretty sensible.  

We know shit when we see shit, like New Jersey or Salafi Islam.  You're just so butthurt you can't accept the reality of things.


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Wrong.
> 
> I live in the New England area and we're pretty sensible.
> 
> We know shit when we see shit, like New Jersey or Salafi Islam.  You're just so butthurt you can't accept the reality of things.




Point proven. Difficult to really know much about the world when all you have are people from your same culture as friends.


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> Point proven. Difficult to really know much about the world when all you have are people from your same culture as friends.



Wow...you are that stupid.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> Point proven. Difficult to really know much about the world when all you have are people from your same culture as friends.


All Mael dates is nonwhite women, what the fuck are you talking about?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> Point proven. Difficult to really know much about the world when all you have are people from your same culture as friends.



This is a really idiotic argument, because whether or not one knows about the world or lives in a multicultural society doesn't change that this is unacceptable and the region as a whole has been criticized for these kind of antics before. You're deflecting, you insist on sticking to disproven claims as well, which as I stated, makes it evident you don't have any actual debating ability.


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> All Mael dates is nonwhite women, what the fuck are you talking about?



Non white is a very vague term, isn't it?


----------



## Mael (Jul 23, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> White guilt?





Savior said:


> Non white is a very vague term, isn't it?



You two, quiet.

And if you've wanted to know, it went Korean-American, Indian, black, Pakistani-American, Korean, Korean.



It's more that I attract them due to the fact I'm white as a friend.


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jul 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Because you know better?



yep

i know better than to try and convince people of things they dont want to admit

and i know better than to masquerade my xenophobic ideologies on a medium like the internet

so, better and more rly


----------



## TSC (Jul 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> Wrong.
> 
> I live in the New England area and we're pretty sensible.
> 
> We know shit when we see shit, like New Jersey or Salafi Islam.  You're just so butthurt you can't accept the reality of things.



Did you just bash my NJ?! And compare us to those radical Islamist?! 


That's it! We're now enemies. This means WAR. 






















*Spoiler*: __ 



You New Englanders are just mad jelly sometimes at us Mid Atlantic-Landers(Penn,NY,NJ,Delaware)


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Jul 23, 2013)

Mael said:


> You two, quiet.
> 
> And if you've wanted to know, it went Korean-American, Indian, black, Pakistani-American, Korean, Korean.
> 
> ...



Was she black black?


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

This thread was quite enjoyable. I think I'll post in this forum more. So many misguided souls in need of enlightenment.


----------



## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Jul 23, 2013)

TSC said:


> Did you just bash my NJ?! And compare us to those radical Islamist?!
> 
> 
> That's it! We're now enemies. This means WAR.


Well New Jersey has a lot of Koreans (whom his nearing-30s white ass has managed to score with)... maybe he's really hiding out down there and dickriding the supposed sophistication of the educated parts of America.


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> What did I say that was hate filled. I said he was baiting Muslims. Stop being overly sensitive, it makes ME think you don't live in a multicultural society when you can't deal with a joke.



Except I do live in a multicultural society and I've never encountered anyone saying anything near what is being said in this thread. The level of hate is quite sad. It sure seems like the majority of people here have never gotten to know anyone that's not in their comfort zone which is a shame.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> Except I do live in a multicultural society and I've never encountered anyone saying anything near what is being said in this thread. The level of hate is quite sad. It sure seems like the majority of people here have never gotten to know anyone that's not in their comfort zone which is a shame.



You living in a multicultural society or not is irrelevant to your demented views.


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You living in a multicultural society or not is irrelevant to your demented views.



So basically what you're saying is that if you lived in North Korea that you'd be the exact same person as you are today. Weak argument bro because it makes no sense.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> So basically what you're saying is that if you lived in North Korea that you'd be the exact same person as you are today. Weak argument bro because it makes no sense.



Unsurprisingly you can't read either...living in a multicultural society has evidently done little in discouraging you from adopting a regressive mindset. Multicultural or not wouldn't change the nature of your arguments in this thread and the general mindset you've espoused here. If you are slow to understand, it's irrelevant to the *nature* of what you've chosen to adopt in your mindset.


----------



## Savior (Jul 23, 2013)

I love how you never actually reply to my posts and post your rather dull insults. Cmon, I'm sure you can do better.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> I love how you never actually reply to my posts and post your rather dull insults. Cmon, I'm sure you can do better.



Certainly an ironic statement, particularly considering that you again are trying to sidestep another matter after your argument falling to shit. Just like your adamant defenses of the UAE and the Dubai justice system, and your initial and common attempt to deflect by pointing fingers at the west for unrelated issues, or your blaming the victim, or like now hiding behind the fallacy that people that don't accept Dubai's justice system aren't cultured, etc. The list goes on and on but at the end of the day nothing will change what you've spouted in this thread was demented bullshit.


----------



## RyokoForTheWin (Jul 23, 2013)

What I don't understand is how a blatantly hateful troll's rep is still in the green.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 23, 2013)

RyokoForTheWin said:


> What I don't understand is how a blatantly hateful troll's rep is still in the green.


Who's the troll?


----------



## Alicia (Jul 23, 2013)

Savior said:


> I love how you never actually reply to my posts and post your rather dull insults. Cmon, I'm sure you can do better.


----------



## RyokoForTheWin (Jul 23, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Who's the troll?



The one giving people cancer, so you're safe.


----------

