# How Did Madara and Izuna Obtain their Mangekyou Sharingan



## ceralux (Sep 22, 2011)

It doesn't say clearly in the manga. And the translation makes it sound like they obtained the mangekyou sharingan through training not killing their closest friend. I'm having this argument and because it doesn't state it clearly he says the real way they got it was through hard work.


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## Judecious (Sep 22, 2011)

They killed their best friends/person closest to them.


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## T-Bag (Sep 22, 2011)

Judecious said:


> They killed their best friends/person closest to them.



This. It even shows blood splattering everywhere, indicating homicide  occurred. Madara was also Itachi's teacher, he's the one that taught him about the awakening the mangekyo and everything about it.


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## BrokenBonds (Sep 22, 2011)

Judecious said:


> They killed their best friends/person closest to them.


This thread ended on the first post...
*
FLAWLESS VICTORY!*


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## silenceofthelambs (Sep 22, 2011)

They probably *didn't* kill anyone, believe it or not.

Think about - not one person in the Uchiha has had to commit murder in order to obtain the Mangekyou Sharingan. Itachi acquired it by witnessing Shisui's death - Sasuke...by seeing Itachi's. And Shisui...well, Obito was most likely his older brother (perhaps even best friend).

Besides, given that Madara and Izuna were the first Mangekyou Sharingan users, it wouldn't make sense for them to suddenly kill their best friends. How would they have known that doing so would activate the MS? Also, the blood spattered ground indicates nothing. They could have _seen_ with their own eyes their best friends' lives being ended, thus bringing to the surface the MS.


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## SaiST (Sep 22, 2011)

Yeah, it's more likely that Madara, as the first person to awaken the Mangekyou Sharingan, witnessed the death of someone close to him, rather than committing the deed himself. No telling how things played out for Izuna.


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## PureWIN (Sep 22, 2011)

The Anime depicted it as them literally killing those closest to them.


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## wibisana (Sep 22, 2011)

they watched other / their closest friend die in War.


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## SleeplessNarc (Sep 22, 2011)

It's difficult to say. I mean, even Kakashi has MS, but it never reveals how.


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## Hasan (Sep 22, 2011)

Itachi said Uchiha throughout the history killed their best friends to gain MS and take their siblings eyes to make the power permanent. Taking this into account, it's most likely the case that they both killed their best friends.


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## Imamember (Sep 22, 2011)

Madara i would say lost the person closest to him and developed his MS,


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## vegeta2002 (Sep 22, 2011)

They killed their best friends. Everyone else has discovered other ways to awaken it.


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## PDQ (Sep 22, 2011)

Hasan said:


> Itachi said Uchiha throughout the history killed their best friends to gain MS and take their siblings eyes to make the power permanent. Taking this into account, it's most likely the case that they both killed their best friends.



Itachi was at the time also completely lying nonstop to Sasuke.  He was trying to push Sasuke over the edge to kill him


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## PikaCheeka (Sep 22, 2011)

silenceofthelambs said:


> They probably *didn't* kill anyone, believe it or not.
> 
> Think about - not one person in the Uchiha has had to commit murder in order to obtain the Mangekyou Sharingan. Itachi acquired it by witnessing Shisui's death - Sasuke...by seeing Itachi's. And Shisui...well, Obito was most likely his older brother (perhaps even best friend).
> 
> Besides, given that Madara and Izuna were the first Mangekyou Sharingan users, it wouldn't make sense for them to suddenly kill their best friends. How would they have known that doing so would activate the MS? Also, the blood spattered ground indicates nothing. They could have _seen_ with their own eyes their best friends' lives being ended, thus bringing to the surface the MS.





SaiST said:


> Yeah, it's more likely that Madara, as the first person to awaken the Mangekyou Sharingan, witnessed the death of someone close to him, rather than committing the deed himself. No telling how things played out for Izuna.



There's a decent chance they killed their best friends merely to test their strength without having any idea of what might happen. Think Bloody Mist style.

There's also a strong possibility that they had heard of the MS somewhere, as it is a clan myth and is recorded, after all.

I don't believe for one second that Madara DIDN'T kill his best friend. It's one of the many things in his background that makes him so horrifically "evil" in comparison to Naruto and one of the _only_ things that sets him apart from Sasuke.


(As for your comment on Shisui's gaining of the MS, he wasn't there when Obito died so that is irrelevant even if they are brothers.)


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## Aazadan (Sep 22, 2011)

PureWIN said:


> The Anime depicted it as them literally killing those closest to them.



The anime doesn't always get things right though.


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## Helios (Sep 22, 2011)

This supposed "killing your best friend" requirement in order to achieve MS is almost hilarious.

According to Itachi,right after Madara and Izuna,many more members of the Uchiha clan started killing their beloved ones to attain power.However there are no records that any of them, besides Uchiha Madara himself and his brother,was successful.

I believe there is something else going on.There are other conditions that have to be met in order to awaken the MS.

One of them has to do with the chakra quality.Itachi was very specific about this regarding Madara.


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## Palpatine (Sep 22, 2011)

SleeplessNarc said:


> It's difficult to say. I mean, even Kakashi has MS, but it never reveals how.



He killed Rin


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## King Of Gamesxx (Sep 22, 2011)

Madara probably saw someone close to him die and obtained MS. Like Goku when he went SSJ.

Then Izuna pulled a Vegeta and gained MS through PURE RAGE AND HATRED to become equal with Madara.

Or vice versa, who knows man.


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## Palpatine (Sep 22, 2011)

I think we'll be getting an even more in depth look into Madara's past soon...at least I hope.

I can see a flashback happening once his mask is removed.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 22, 2011)

Madara admitted that he killed his best friend for MS and his brother for EMS.


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## PDQ (Sep 22, 2011)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Madara admitted that he killed his best friend for MS and his brother for EMS.



When did _Madara_ ever say this?


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## tgm2x (Sep 22, 2011)

They probably are the guys who found the Rikudo tablet If so they knew what were they doing killing their best friends


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## Addy (Sep 22, 2011)

they killed their teddy bear which was their best friend


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 22, 2011)

Addy said:


> they killed their teddy bear which was their best friend


This.

Madara is full of love and shits rainbows all day afterall. 



I don't understand why is it hard for people to grasp that Madara is some douche who'd be more than welcome to kill for power.


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## Addy (Sep 22, 2011)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> This.
> 
> Madara is full of love and shits rainbows all day afterall.
> 
> ...



although, i made fun of it but well, there is more to it if you want to b e serious about it for a sec. If indeed naruto is the pre-evil madara, then madara and his brother killed for the sake of the clan to gain more power and protect it. What made madara evil is the fact that no matter what he sacrificed and did, he was never recognized for his actions aside from being the leader. For example, he killed his brother to protect his clan but the clan doesn’t recognize this sacrifice as they would want peace even if madara’s words became true and uchiha ended as “senju dogs” at the end. 

Now, how did he arrive from “kill uchiha and senju” to “world peace”?  that’s were I agree and call him a power hungry moron


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 22, 2011)

Addy said:


> although, i made fun of it but well, there is more to it if you want to b e serious about it for a sec. If indeed naruto is the pre-evil madara, then madara and his brother killed for the sake of the clan to gain more power and protect it. What made madara evil is the fact that no matter what he sacrificed and did, he was never recognized for his actions aside from being the leader. For example, he killed his brother to protect his clan but the clan doesn?t recognize this sacrifice as they would want peace even if madara?s words became true and uchiha ended as ?senju dogs? at the end.
> 
> Now, how did he arrive from ?kill uchiha and senju? to ?world peace??  that?s were I agree and call him a power hungry moron



Imo, Madara isn't like Naruto. I mean Naruto would never kill anyone for power. Hell Naruto would avoid killing someone at all costs. I don't buy killing your best friend for the sake of the clan as "sacrifice for greater good."
Madara didn't have to do that. They could have devised strategies and trained harder or do some other shit. Sacrifice comes as a last resort thing. Also it is clear that Madara enjoyed battle. Its not a stretch to believe that he killed people for his own good. 
I also don't buy the 'touchy' parts of Madara's story. He made himself look like the victim to gain Sasuke's sympathy. 
He is a devious mother fucker.


He is a cold blooded murderer. Thats what he is.


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## Addy (Sep 22, 2011)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Imo, Madara isn't like Naruto. I mean Naruto would never kill anyone for power. Hell Naruto would avoid killing someone at all costs. I don't buy killing your best friend for the sake of the clan as "sacrifice for greater good."
> Madara didn't have to do that. They could have devised strategies and trained harder or do some other shit. Sacrifice comes as a last resort thing. Also it is clear that Madara enjoyed battle. Its not a stretch to believe that he killed people for his own good.
> I also don't buy the 'touchy' parts of Madara's story. He made himself look like the victim to gain Sasuke's sympathy.
> He is a devious mother fucker.
> ...



it was a time were hashirame  had 9 bjiuus under his control. He had to get some kind of power. What can stratagy do against that?. Imagine naruto vs pain without SM or kyubi? He would have gotten rapped. Stratigy doesnt mean anything in that situation


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 22, 2011)

Addy said:


> it was a time were hashirame  had 9 bjiuus under his control. He had to get some kind of power. What can stratagy do against that?. Imagine naruto vs pain without SM or kyubi? He would have gotten rapped. Stratigy doesnt mean anything in that situation



teleport to his house and drop hashirama while he is asleep.
Problem solved 

Also, as far as we know he didn't have the Kyuubi.


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## Addy (Sep 22, 2011)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> teleport to his house and drop hashirama while he is asleep.
> Problem solved
> 
> Also, as far as we know he didn't have the Kyuubi.


could be a way to win 

he had mito who was the first jin and he gave the bijuus to the rest of the world and madara still lost against him.

for me, it was until he attacked konoha the first time, he had a reason. everything after that is just asspulls from kishi.


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## Good Boy Turned Bad (Sep 22, 2011)

Madara and Izuna unlocked the MS from each other, they didn't kill anybody. The blood that splattered on Sasuke's face was Madara's and Izuna's blood. That's why Sasuke was surprised.


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## Deleted member 45015 (Sep 22, 2011)

silenceofthelambs said:


> They probably *didn't* kill anyone, believe it or not.
> 
> Think about - not one person in the Uchiha has had to commit murder in order to obtain the Mangekyou Sharingan. Itachi acquired it by witnessing Shisui's death - Sasuke...by seeing Itachi's. And Shisui...well, Obito was most likely his older brother (perhaps even best friend).
> 
> Besides, given that Madara and Izuna were the first Mangekyou Sharingan users, it wouldn't make sense for them to suddenly kill their best friends. How would they have known that doing so would activate the MS? Also, the blood spattered ground indicates nothing. They could have _seen_ with their own eyes their best friends' lives being ended, thus bringing to the surface the MS.



Agreed.

Keep in mind also that the story was being told by Itachi, a guy who was lying through his teeth about plenty of things to keep Sasuke in the dark or away from Madara.

Itachi may have killed Shisui...or it's more likely Shisui really did kill himself. Kakashi clearly hasn't killed his best friend, Sasuke hasn't killed his. Itachi was alive and well and yet Shisui had a Mangekyou....

I honestly agree and believe myself that "kill your best friend" is a fabrication since the only person who's said it outright is Itachi. IMHO, he told Sasuke that to _deter him _from obtaining the Mangekyou, not to encourage him.


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## αce (Sep 22, 2011)

Bloodspat in the bottom middle panel which was depicted further in the anime as them killing their best friends.


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## silenceofthelambs (Sep 22, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> There's a decent chance they killed their best friends merely to test their strength without having any idea of what might happen. Think Bloody Mist style.
> 
> There's also a strong possibility that they had heard of the MS somewhere, as it is a clan myth and is recorded, after all.
> 
> ...



Except that doesn't make any sense, given what the manga has shown us.

You're an excellent poster and debater, PikaCheeka, but this argument doesn't add up in a number of ways. Why would Madara and Izuna suddenly kill their best friends? I understand the "testing their strength" idea, but they could have done that on anyone else (ideally, a Senju).

Sure, Madara and Izuna may have been two ruthless warlords, but murdering their best friends for no apparent reason seems slightly strange, even for them. Besides, it's said that the emotion of seeing and/or realizing your best friend's death is the prerequisite that satisfies the activation of the Mangekyou Sharingan.

If Madara and Izuna did it to "test their capacity," they wouldn't have felt remorse after. If it was simply executed out of nonchalance and indifference, they wouldn't have experienced sadness over the aforementioned deaths. Sasuke and Itachi's melancholy was the thing which gave them their heightened doujutsu.

(Itachi wasn't there when Shisui committed suicide, so my point is not entirely irrelevant.)



♠Ace♠ said:


> Bloodspat in the bottom middle panel which was depicted further in the anime as them killing their best friends.



The anime?

Not the best argument to employ. They sometimes divert from manga canon, and drastically (if they had followed it religiously from the beginning, then you might have a point).


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## Ezekial (Sep 22, 2011)

PureWIN said:


> The Anime depicted it as them literally killing those closest to them.



The Anime is non-canon as far as I'm concerned.


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## Smile Sai (Sep 23, 2011)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Madara admitted that he killed his best friend for MS and his brother for EMS.


-lurks about-

 Hehe I like your avatar picture ^^ At first it was kinda creepy but now it makes me laugh too.


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