# Adult Naruto vs Adult Sasuke



## Soldierofficial (Oct 28, 2018)

*Match*: Naruto vs Sasuke
*Location*: VOTE
*Knowledge*: Full for both
*Restrictions*: None


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 28, 2018)

Naruto has always been stronger than Sasuke.. He never was trying to kill Sasuke when they fought unlike Sasuke

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kisame (Oct 28, 2018)

Either Naruto wins or it's a draw.


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## King Ramirez (Oct 28, 2018)

Ashura Avatar


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 28, 2018)

Naruto is forced to use AA to win, Sasuke has proven that as of adulthood with all the gains he made, combined with Naruto sitting on his ass after gaining the hat and not improving anymore, hes caught up to Naruto easily. Sasukes strength and speed are at a level Naruto cant just brush aside whatsoever..>As Momoshiki couldnt and hes > Naruto, Sasukes hax have improved, his firepower skyrocketed, he has KB usage as well now...Hed be able to wall naruto across the board for quite some time. Naruto wont gain any definitive edge over Sasuke without using World NE, which Sasuek has no real answer to tbh.

There are a few things he could do with Rinnegan hax to troll the shit out of AA, but they are kind of a long shot.

Extreme diff for Naruto


MaruUchiha said:


> Naruto has always been stronger than Sasuke.. He never was trying to kill Sasuke when they fought unlike Sasuke


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## Grinningfox (Oct 28, 2018)

Naruto has to use AA to win otherwise it’s a mutual win. I personally see adult Naruto vs Sasuke like Buu Sage Goku vs Vegeta with them being even until Goku whips out SSJ3


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## Grinningfox (Oct 28, 2018)

I meant mutual death


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## Bonly (Oct 28, 2018)

It could go either way since they're equal though it depends on how each actually uses their full arsenal


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

MaruUchiha said:


> Naruto has always been stronger than Sasuke.. He never was trying to kill Sasuke when they fought unlike Sasuke



Keep telling yourself that buddy. Meanwhile we have VOE, BOS, and VOE 2 in which the best that Naruto manage to do was tie.

As far as Adult Naruto vs. Adult Sasuke goes it's a draw, as the best we've seen from both characters is Naruto's BM Avatar being assisted by Sasuke's PS to best Momoshiki's golem. We can speculate on whether Asura Avatar could come into play, but then we'll have to speculate whether Sasuke has mastered the Rinnegan.(Something he didn't have at VOE2)


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## Grinningfox (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Keep telling yourself that buddy. Meanwhile we have VOE, BOS, and VOE 2 in which the best that Naruto manage to do was tie.
> 
> As far as Adult Naruto vs. Adult Sasuke goes it's a draw, as the best we've seen from both characters is Naruto's BM Avatar being assisted by Sasuke's PS to best Momoshiki's golem. We can speculate on whether Asura Avatar could come into play, but then we'll have to speculate whether Sasuke has mastered the Rinnegan.(Something he didn't have at VOE2)



How would Sasuke mastering the Rinnegan allow him to compete with Asura Avatar??


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Grinningfox said:


> How would Sasuke mastering the Rinnegan allow him to compete with Asura Avatar??



Because mastery over the Rinnegan allows the shutdown of ninjutsu. Which is why both Adult Sasuke and Adult Naruto avoided using such directly against Momoshiki.


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## Andrew10458 (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Because mastery over the Rinnegan allows the shutdown of ninjutsu. Which is why both Adult Sasuke and Adult Naruto avoided using such directly against Momoshiki.


They avoided ninjutsu since momoshiki aborbs it , enhances it , and sends it back this is unique only to him it’s not shared between all rinnegans 

What’s shared is the preta path


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Andrew10458 said:


> They avoided ninjutsu since momoshiki aborbs it , enhances it , and sends it back this is unique only to him it’s not shared between all rinnegans
> 
> What’s shared is the preta path


Sasuke doesn't need to send it back. He only needs the chakara. He has his own ninjutsu in which he can utilize the extra chakara that Naruto is giving him.


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## Mori Jin (Oct 29, 2018)

Naruto wins obviously. Mastered Rinnegan or not, he's going to run out of chakra first. He doesn't have bijuus for back up. When their avatars come out to play Ashura Avatar × 2> PS. 

Sasuke gets smacked like a ragdoll.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (Oct 29, 2018)

They're equal, as per databooks and author's intent.

Reactions: Like 1


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Mori Jin said:


> Naruto wins obviously. Mastered Rinnegan or not, he's going to run out of chakra first. He doesn't have bijuus for back up. When their avatars come out to play Ashura Avatar × 2> PS.
> 
> Sasuke gets smacked like a ragdoll.


Did you even read VOE2? I don't believe either of them lost because they ran out of chakara. The battle ended how it began. With Sasuke trying to overwhelm Naruto with brute force, and Naruto simply responding. Let's say this fight between Adult Naruto and Adult Sasuke happen in a vacuum. With both learning from mistakes at VOE2. Sasuke now knows that he simply cannot overpower Naruto like he tried to do at VOE2, and Naruto now knows that he simply cannot avoid trying not kill Sasuke if he doesn't want both of them to die. 

Let's say both of them had intention to kill, and both were aware of each other strengths. Naruto wouldn't resort to Asura Avatar out the gate, as he's very aware of the Rinnegan and it's ability to absorb ninjutsu outright. Like wise Sasuke knows he doesn't have the power of the biju to fuel his chakara supply, and he also knows that Naruto simply has more raw power than him no matter what he does. So rather trying to wipe out Naruto with a Kirin like assault by virtue of Indra's arrow. He simply plays to his strength and allows his versatility to give him the advantage. With mastery over the Rinnegan he now has access the all of Nagato's abilities from jump. Add to this better understanding of how Ameno works and his ability to jump dimension I don't see how Naruto can go all out with Asura Avatar like you are implying without fear of either Sasuke simply: 

A. absorbing his chakara. Eliminating any hope of Naruto outlasting Sasuke.
B. Switching places with him using Ameno, thus getting hit by his own attack.(A feat in Baruto in which he's has done on multiple occasions)
C. Simply jumping Dimension to avoid the attack outright, and with the extra chakara Naruto is going to be supplying him with by utilizing ninjutsu rather carelessly like you are implying, there would be no need for him to worry about how taxing the jutsu is.


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## Mori Jin (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Did you even read VOE2? I don't believe either of them lost because they ran out of chakara.



Of course I did. Sasuke sure as hell ran out of chakra, and so did Naruto. Matter of fact so did Kurama.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Mori Jin said:


> Of course I did. Sasuke sure as hell ran out of chakra, and so did Naruto. Matter of fact so did Kurama.



Then how did they lose their arm?


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## Mori Jin (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Then how did they lose their arm?



What the hell does that got to do with them being low on chakra?


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Mori Jin said:


> What the hell does that got to do with them being low on chakra?


You stated they ran out of chakra, right?


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## Mori Jin (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> You stated they ran out of chakra, right?



They were low on chakra, in the final half of their fight, including Kurama. And were out of it when theh lost the arms.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Mori Jin said:


> They were low on chakra, in the final half of their fight, including Kurama. And were out of it when theh lost the arms.


They were low, but that's not the reason they tied. Ultimately what ended up happening is that neither one could move without running the risk of blood lost. The fight would've ended exactly how Naruto predicted it would end with both of them dying. Without the aid of Sakura.


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## Mori Jin (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> They were low, but that's not the reason they tied. Ultimately what ended up happening is that neither one could move without running the risk of blood lost. The fight would've ended exactly how Naruto predicted it would end with both of them dying. Without the aid of Sakura.



Semantics. Sasuke had the aid of the other bijuu. Only reason he lasted that long and the firepower to contend with Naruto. Something he doesn't have now. Whereas Naruto has kurama at full power now. 

This hypothetical fight goes to Naruto for me


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 29, 2018)

Mori Jin said:


> Semantics. Sasuke had the aid of the other bijuu


Not for the entire fight he didnt



And hes even stronger now, more so than Naruto is.

Im not saying Sauke>Naruto as adults...before you mininterprete my words...heres what I mean.

Teen Sasuke = 5

Teen Naruto= 8

Adult Sasuke = 10

Adult Naruto = 10

Meaning, Sasuke grew more than Naruto has by adulthood...As stated by Naruto and Kurama...


Mori Jin said:


> Only reason he lasted that long and the firepower to contend with Naruto. Something he doesn't have now


No...He had the base firepower to match Narutos Base firepower...Cuz he did...Like twice.


Mori Jin said:


> Whereas Naruto has kurama at full power now


 

Owing to his ridiculous boost in speed and power.


Mori Jin said:


> This hypothetical fight goes to Naruto for me


Sure if he uses AA, otherwise its a draw.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Mori Jin said:


> Semantics. Sasuke had the aid of the other bijuu. Only reason he lasted that long and the firepower to contend with Naruto. Something he doesn't have now. Whereas Naruto has kurama at full power now.


You mean long enough for his Rinnegan to progress to the point of being able to absorb chakara right? As ultimately that's what Sasuke relied upon to keep up with Naruto even after exhausting the power of the other Biju. 



> This hypothetical fight goes to Naruto for me


This hypothetical fight of yours has flaws out the gate. First and foremost you assume Naruto has made strides with his avatar, while Sasuke has not. You assume their VOE2 battle was dictated by Naruto's action when it was really Sasuke who was escalating the fight from the start? You assume it is raw power that would ultimately be deciding factor oppose to what happened the last time. In VOE2 neither could kill the other, without dying themselves. In the end Sasuke using the chakara of the Biju was more of a montage to Hashi and Madara's fight. It was to showcase that both had surpass they're final benchmarks at their respective VOE battle.


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## Mori Jin (Oct 29, 2018)

> OTE="WorldsStrongest, post: 59278776, member: 255399"]
> 
> Not for the entire fight he didnt
> 
> ...



Didn't say he couldn't match him. Sasuke has no answer for Ashura Avatar. Its > his PS and that's a fact.

@Bold: Some made up numbers lol. Where did Naruto and Kurama state sasuke grew more than him?



> No...He had the base firepower to match Narutos Base firepower...Cuz he did...Like twice.



Not when Ashura Avatar came out he didn't. That's my point. He has no answer for that.



> Owing to his ridiculous boost in speed and power.



Sasuke said he became familiar with his new techniques. Kurama says otherwise.

He was familiar with them.



> Sure if he uses AA, otherwise its a draw.



Which he will. Not if Naruto actually fights him like he did his other enemies and not the way he did in both VOTE fights.


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## Mori Jin (Oct 29, 2018)

[UOT="IpHr0z3nI, post: 59278781, member: 115765"]



> You mean long enough for his Rinnegan to progress to the point of being able to absorb chakara right? As ultimately that's what Sasuke relied upon to keep up with Naruto even after exhausting the power of the other Biju.



*The Chakra from the stationary and under genjutsu bijuu (something that isn't here this fight). A Naruto that isn't stationary either as the only why he's shown to absorb chakra is of he is directly touching the individual. *




> This hypothetical fight of yours has flaws out the gate. First and foremost you assume Naruto has made strides with his avatar, while Sasuke has not. You assume their VOE2 battle was dictated by Naruto's action when it was really Sasuke who was escalating the fight from the start? You assume it is raw power that would ultimately be deciding factor oppose to what happened the last time. In VOE2 neither could kill the other, without dying themselves. In the end Sasuke using the chakara of the Biju was more of a montage to Hashi and Madara's fight. It was to showcase that both had surpass they're final benchmarks at their respective VOE battle.



*He can make all the strides he wants. Bijuu PS = Ashura Avatar > PS, that's a fact. Unless you have something else to show this ain't changing. Which naruto kept up with just fine. Like raw power wasn't 90% of what they used during that fight. In VOTE 2 sasuke couldn't kill Naruto, don't get it twisted Naruto has never tried to kill him and only fought to match. No it wasn't it was to get more powerful than him. As shown when he says that "I'm the strongest now". Until Naruto got that genjutsu boost. 

Be that as it may, their avatars will come out. What is a fact till now (Boruto Manga) is that sasuke has no answer for Ashura Avatar ×2, with his current feats.

 *


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 29, 2018)

Mori Jin said:


> Didn't say he couldn't match him


Kay


Mori Jin said:


> Sasuke has no answer for Ashura Avatar


Never said he did


Mori Jin said:


> @Bold: Some made up numbers lol


Yes...That was the entire fucking point genius


Mori Jin said:


> Where did Naruto and Kurama state sasuke grew more than him


Naruto and Kurama outright state Naruto has grown rusty.

Sasuke grew to the point hes comparable to Naruto now despite being beneath Naruto as teens

Really not that complicated


Mori Jin said:


> Not when Ashura Avatar came out he didn't


> I say "BASE" firepower
> Kid brings up Ashura Avatar

Are you drunk???


Mori Jin said:


> Sasuke said he became familiar with his new techniques. Kurama says otherwise.
> 
> He was familiar with them.


Sasuke states hes becoming familiar with them...As hes used them more...

Kurama states he still hasnt mastered them...And he hasnt...Or else hed have done exactly what kurama states he SHOULD be able to do there but cant due to inexperience.

Am I actually being asked to fucking prove Sasuke was a rookie with his rinnegan he acquired like 2 hours ago right now?

Really?


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## Trojan (Oct 29, 2018)

Sasuke needs all 9 Bijuus to be able to compete with Naruto.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mori Jin (Oct 29, 2018)

> [OTE="WorldsStrongest, post: 59278810, member: 255399"]
> 
> Kay






> Never said he did





> Yes...That was the entire fucking point genius






> Naruto and Kurama outright state Naruto has grown rusty.
> 
> Sasuke grew to the point hes comparable to Naruto now despite being beneath Naruto as teens
> 
> Really not that complicated



Right so it wasn't stated by Naruto and Kurama, that sasuke became stronger then him. You could have just said you made it up.

Really not that complicated.



> > I say "BASE" firepower
> > Kid brings up Ashura Avatar
> 
> Are you drunk???



> I say Ashura Avatar (which was my whole point from the first post).
> Troglodyte brings up "BASE" power. 

Are you stable?



> Sasuke states hes becoming familiar with them...As hes used them more...
> 
> Kurama states he still hasnt mastered them...And he hasnt...Or else hed have done exactly what kurama states he SHOULD be able to do there but cant due to inexperience.
> 
> ...



He was familiar with them as one can get. Once you get the technique that's it, you know the ins and outs as its already programmed. That's how dojutsus work. 

Yeah go and prove there was more to learn from the paths he used in VOTE 2. The only thing he lacked was experience, nothing else.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Mori Jin said:


> *The Chakra from the stationary and under genjutsu bijuu (something that isn't here this fight). A Naruto that isn't stationary either as the only why he's shown to absorb chakra is of he is directly touching the individual.*


But we've seen Rinnegan users absorb chakara by directly touching it. Aren't we talking about a Sasuke who's mastered is Rinnegan. I don't recall Rinnegan user needing to touch the individual directly to absorb their chakara. Now you're simply being biased. You speculate on Naruto's growth, but are unwilling to give Sasuke that same treatment? Talk about double standards.



> *He can make all the strides he wants. Bijuu PS = Ashura Avatar > PS, that's a fact. Unless you have something else to show this ain't changing.*


But I'm not the one who is going against the grain. We have quotes from Kishi that alludes to Sasuke and Naruto in their current states being equal. And once again Adult Naruto's best feat with his Kurama avatar paired along side Sasuke's PS. So who is the one trying to change the narrative? Who is the one trying speculate on something that's not been given? * 



			Which naruto kept up with just fine. Like raw power wasn't 90% of what they used during that fight. In VOTE 2 sasuke couldn't kill Naruto, don't get it twisted Naruto has never tried to kill him and only fought to match.
		
Click to expand...

*Oh they would've died, if not for Sakura's aid. What Ultimately ended up happening was what Naruto predicted earlier. They both would die if they were to go all out, and if you don't think Asura Avatar was Naruto going all out, then you are hopeless.

*



			No it wasn't it was to get more powerful than him. As shown when he says that "I'm the strongest now". Until Naruto got that genjutsu boost.
		
Click to expand...

*(You need to learn how to quote better) I have no idea which of points you are referring too.

As far as Sasuke citing he's the strongest now, that clearly wasn't the case. And what ended up happening is that he wasted almost all of his chakara on a jutsu that failed to kill Naruto. It was Rinnegan that ultimately allowed him to continue.
*



			Be that as it may, their avatars will come out. What is a fact till now (Boruto Manga) is that sasuke has no answer for Ashura Avatar ×2, with his current feats.



Click to expand...

*Oh he has an answer, you are simply not giving it to him. You're giving Naruto Ashura Avatar x2, while ignoring the fact that Sasuke has canonically improved with his Rinnegan. Whether he now absorb jutsu without direct contact as just as speculative as giving Naruto back his Asura Avatar x 2.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Hussain said:


> Sasuke needs all 9 Bijuus to be able to compete with Naruto.


Just like he needed all 9 against Momoshiki, oh wait...….


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## Trojan (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Just like he needed all 9 against Momoshiki, oh wait...….


how is that relevant to Naruto? 


bottom line, whether Sasuke's fanboys like it or not, he did use all 9 Bijuus against Naruto
and he still couldn't win.

Reactions: Like 1


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Hussain said:


> how is that relevant to Naruto?
> 
> 
> bottom line, whether Sasuke's fanboys like it or not, he did use all 9 Bijuus against Naruto
> and he still couldn't win.


Whether Naruto fans want to admit or not. Neither Naruto or Sasuke has shown a level of raw power that comes close to what was displayed at VOE2.

Adult Naruto's strongest moments in part have come along side Sasuke against Momo. That's what I mean Mr. Hussain.


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## Trojan (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Neither Naruto or Sasuke has shown a level of raw power that comes close to what was displayed at VOE2.


What does this even mean? 

who displayed that raw power then? 



IpHr0z3nI said:


> Adult Naruto's strongest moments in part have come along side Sasuke against Momo. That's what I mean Mr. Hussain.


ok? 

I hope you realized that Momoshiki was absorbing Naruto's chakra for hours, and that after Naruto got a direct hit by a TBB as well. 


furthermore, Naruto did not use his AA and/or SM on the same level as in VOTE when he was battling Momoshiki...


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Hussain said:


> What does this even mean?
> 
> who displayed that raw power then?


Not Naruto or Sasuke, lol.



> ok?
> 
> I hope you realized that Momoshiki was absorbing Naruto's chakra for hours, and that after Naruto got a direct hit by a TBB as well.


Sounds like excuses to me.

You are quick to come up with all these needless pictures, as compensation for your lack of your ability to put together a proper argument despite your 40+ post count.

Whether Naruto had his chakara absorbed or not doesn't make a difference considering in his VOE2 fight with Sasuke he...… It was noted by Kurama and Sasuke that reserves were not at their peaks. So whatever excuses you are using to excuse him needing Sasuke help to battle Momoshiki save it.




> furthermore, Naruto did not use his AA and/or SM on the same level as in VOTE when he was battling Momoshiki...


And he's going to magically use it on Sasuke now?


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## Trojan (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Whether Naruto had his chakara absorbed or not doesn't make a difference considering in his VOE2 fight with Sasuke he...… It was noted by Kurama and Sasuke that reserves were not at their peaks. So whatever excuses you are using to excuse him needing Sasuke help to battle Momoshiki save it.




are you drunk or on drugs? ck

I never said Naruto did not need help against Momoshiki.

What does that have to do with Naruto being stronger than Sasuke? Or Sasuke needing all 9 Bijuus to fight him? 


They also needed Bolt's help to save their asses, I guess that means Bolt is on the same level? ck



IpHr0z3nI said:


> And he's going to magically use it on Sasuke now?


So, your counter-argument is, Sasuke = Naruto because Naruto will hold back and not use his full power?


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## The Great One (Oct 29, 2018)

Naruto.

Kurama Avatar strangles PS with its tail in cqc, then wipes it out with a TBB.

Kurama Avatar binds PS's arms and legs with it tail then wipes it out with TBB spam.

Or

Goes 6 armed 3 headed version which destroys PS in cqc.

There is no why PS is lasting more then few seconds against KA.

Size of PS compare to Kurama body.


Size of Kurama compare to its tails.


And Naruto not only extend size of his avatars tails but he can also morph those tails into hands.

And can create non NE amped 3 headed version. 


Sasuke needs BPS to beat KA.

Reactions: Like 1


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Hussain said:


> are you drunk or on drugs? ck


I must be if I'm willing to take your rather "save-face" responses seriously.



> I never said Naruto did not need help against Momoshiki.


You don't have too. 

Your initial claim was that Sasuke needed 9 Biju in order to keep up with Naruto. For which I pointed to the Momoshiki battle in which Sasuke had no such thing, but was able to match Naruto output just fine.



> What does that have to do with Naruto being stronger than Sasuke? Or Sasuke needing all 9 Bijuus to fight him?


Please if you're going to go on the business of wasting both of our times, at least learn how to make a proper counter argument. I have no idea as which aspect of my post you're referring too. Any who Sasuke needing 9 bijuu to fight Naruto is a myth as he was matching Naruto just fine prior to obtaining the power of the 9 jins….

Sasuke doesn't need 9 biju to match a Naruto who was going all out against Momoshiki golem. So I doubt he need one to go against Naruto in direct combat. 




> They also needed Bolt's help to save their asses, I guess that means Bolt is on the same level? ck


They needed Bolt to defeat Momoshiki. But if you want to put him on Naruto and Sasuke's level, that's up to you.:fap



> So, your counter-argument is, Sasuke = Naruto because Naruto will hold back and not use his full power?


Was Naruto holding back against Momoshki? If your answer is yes, why is that? Is it because Momoshiki possessed something that made using chakara on him rather foolish? Is Sasuke not capable of forcing Naruto to also fight this way? It's not a matter of Naruto holding back. It's a matter of Naruto simply fighting smarter. He isn't going to nuke Sasuke giving several of Sasuke's Hax ability. Thus using AA wouldn't be the best usage of his reserves now would it?


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Naruto.
> 
> Kurama Avatar strangles PS with its tail in cqc, then wipes it out with a TBB.
> 
> ...





Batzzaro29 said:


> Naruto.
> 
> Kurama Avatar strangles PS with its tail in cqc, then wipes it out with a TBB.
> 
> ...


Correct me if I ain't right, but didn't Sasuke manage to coat Adult Naruto's Kurama's Avatar with PS? 

You are making an argument that is dictated on something as inconsistent as size. That's not the smartest idea in the word buddy.


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## The Great One (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Correct me if I ain't right, but didn't Sasuke manage to coat Adult Naruto's Kurama's Avatar with PS?
> 
> You are making an argument that is dictated on something as inconsistent as size. That's not the smartest idea in the word buddy.


KA body = PS in size(w/o wings).

KA tail > KA body in size


That is how it was in manga.

You can cry inconsistent all you want but it does not change the fact that KA fucks up PS with its tails.

And none of Sasuke's offence is getting past those tails.

No Sasuke coated Kurama with PS armour not PS.


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## The Great One (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> I must be if I'm willing to take your rather "save-face" responses seriously.
> 
> 
> You don't have too.
> ...



If Sasuke had those hax which you are talking about then he would've absorbed Momo's TBB. 

If he did not used them when momo was about to nuke them there then he is not absorbing shit here. 

So no Sasuke is not capable of forcing Naruto fight that way. 

And yes Sasuke needed 9 biju to beat Kurama Avatar because there is nothing PS has which putting down KA. 

While Naruto can match Susanoo Chidori with TBB which KA can spam casually.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> KA body = PS in size(w/o wings).
> 
> KA tail > KA body in size
> 
> ...


Yeah I don't think so buddy. Kurama's tails have been there since day one, and have never once managed to overwhelm PS. You implicant them to be some sorta ace to utilize against PS, yet neglect the fact that the only interruption the tails had was blocking Sasuke's Susano'o sword.

Any who is funny how quick Naruto fans are so quick to bring up avatars as if Sasuke doesn't have other abilities that would allow him maneuver out of the situation in which is PS is being overwhelmed. You forgot he can switch places with anything on the battlefield if need be. This includes Naruto suffice to say.


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## The Great One (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Yeah I don't think so buddy. Kurama's tails have been there since day one, and have never once managed to overwhelm PS. You implicant them to be some sorta ace to utilize against PS, yet neglect the fact that the only interruption the tails had was blocking Sasuke's Susano'o sword.
> 
> Any who is funny how quick Naruto fans are so quick to bring up avatars as if Sasuke doesn't have other abilities that would allow him maneuver out of the situation in which is PS is being overwhelmed. You forgot he can switch places with anything on the battlefield if need be. This includes Naruto suffice to say.


Because Naruto was only using the tail to defence... But

Watch Naruto vs bijus he can literally use the tails as hand to restrict their movements.

Or watch fight with juubito where Naruto was using KA tail to fight him.

Or KA using its tail to pin down Madara.

And how many times Sasuke can use that ability? 3 or 4 times?

After then what? KA binds Susanoo's limbs with its tails and then blows it up.


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## Trojan (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Please if you're going to go on the business of wasting both of our times


the irony is lost on you. 
sweetheart, you are the one wasting our time with your delusion. 

manga:





he even admits, again, that he needs the Bijuus. 



You:

nooooo, fanfictions, retcons, Sasuke is a spy and was holding back...etc etc 



What is this rubbish? Is this the new itachi & Kisame's fan bases? 
as if it was not enough having those 2 already... 



anyway, as you said, I won't continue to waste my time with you. Sasuke DID need ALL 9 Bijuus in his fight against Naruto
no amount of delusion/salt is going to change that.


you don't have to like it, but you should deal with it.

Reactions: Like 2


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Hussain said:


> the irony is lost on you.
> sweetheart, you are the one wasting our time with your delusion.


As I said before why are compensating with the emoji's and silly pictures?

No one's denying that he needed the Biju's back then. So can you please stop selecting reading and wasting precious time please.



> manga:


Looks like he needed chakara period to me. Which he later unlocked the ability to steal it from Naruto directly. Which is why he manage to conjure up enough for the final blow, but go ahead pretend the end of the fight didn't exist. And I'll go ahead and keep pretending you are half the poster your post count alludes you are.




> he even admits, again, that he needs the Bijuus.


See above.




> You:
> 
> nooooo, fanfictions, retcons, Sasuke is a spy and was holding back...etc etc


Now this is fanfiction. Your attempts at humor is hilarious. You come at me with made up points, and keep failing to quote the arguments directly in front of you. You think with 40K in the game, this should be easy breezy, but nope. The act of quoting and responding to what's there seems lost. But If you like I love it.




> What is this rubbish? Is this the new itachi & Kisame's fan bases?
> as if it was not enough having those 2 already...


Don't know what you are talking about,but keep rambling old man.





> anyway, as you said, I won't continue to waste my time with you. Sasuke DID need ALL 9 Bijuus in his fight against Naruto
> no amount of delusion/salt is going to change that.


And why did he need biju to begin with? Is it not because he ran out of chakara? Did he finish the battle with those respective Biju, or did he have to compensate with something else?(And that word shouldn't be lost to you, as you are compensating heavily yourself right about now)



> you don't have to like it, but you should deal with it.


If only your ability to quote directly was efficient as your ability to pull random pictures from the internet. Maybe, just maybe, your ability to post would reflect your post count. No one saying he didn't need the Biju's back then. But that was before even acquiring the basic ability to siphon chakara with the Rinnegan. Why didn't link panel with Kurama alluding to Sasuke being essentially a novice with the Rinnegan?


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 29, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Because Naruto was only using the tail to defence... But
> 
> Watch Naruto vs bijus he can literally use the tails as hand to restrict their movements.


And you some how think those hands are powerful enough to restrict PS movement. Look at their respective avatars from chapter 695 page 13.(Don't know how to post images)
Immediately following the clash between Sasuke's sword and the Naruto's tail you can visibly see some damage regarding Naruto's tail. Any who I don't think Naruto's tails are strong enough to restrict Sasuke movements. 



> Or watch fight with juubito where Naruto was using KA tail to fight him.


I read the Juubito fight, and distinctly recall his tails being used on multiple occasions. But never to hold Juubito. 



> Or KA using its tail to pin down Madara.


Don't recall KA being used against Madara's PS. I do vaguely remember being able to hold down Madara though.



> And how many times Sasuke can use that ability? 3 or 4 times?


Ameno? There no specified number. But as an adult it is his most utilized Rinnegan ability. And it was quite broken even from jump street. If I recall correctly he manage to blitz Naruto with it from the back.(That doesn't sound right)



> After then what? KA binds Susanoo's limbs with its tails and then blows it up.


Naruto's tails have yet to Bind anything on PS caliber. And Sasuke can always switch places between himself and Naruto if need be.


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## The Great One (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> And you some how think those hands are powerful enough to restrict PS movement. Look at their respective avatars from chapter 695 page 13.(Don't know how to post images)
> Immediately following the clash between Sasuke's sword and the Naruto's tail you can visibly see some damage regarding Naruto's tail. Any who I don't think Naruto's tails are strong enough to restrict Sasuke movements.
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, because two of them literally pulled out PS to ground forcefully, with 9 of those KA bondage rapes PS.

Those tails received some damage, so what? KA tails can regenerate those damages casually.

Because juubito was fast.

Yes Sasuke blitzed Naruto(which Naruto was able to react anyway) which achieved nothing, just like PS blitzing KA with Ameno here will achieve nothing.

KA will either tank or block everything PS dish out with its tails, after Ameno goes to cool down, KA decimates PS mid-diff.

Ameno does not give PS ability to defeat KA, Ameno gives PS ability to survive against KA for some time,  then PS gets destroyed once Ameno goes cool down.


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## Kagutsutchi (Oct 29, 2018)

Naruto wins more often than not. Naruto can overpower or directly counter all of sasuke's jutsu with ease.

Amaterasu gets blocked and removed like before

Amenotejikara gets reacted to again and chidori fails to do damage.
Genjutsu is broken easily. 

In an avatar battle, naruto has already shown he is superior and VOTE2 showed that naruto was holding back and not trying to kill sasuke.


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## Mindovin (Oct 29, 2018)

Everyone seems to forget that Naruto has regeneration.


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## Serene Grace (Oct 29, 2018)

Asura paths one shots once its used

Confused why Sasuke fanboys are still arguing otherwise


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## Buuhan (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Sasuke doesn't need to send it back. He only needs the chakara. He has his own ninjutsu in which he can utilize the extra chakara that Naruto is giving him.


Preta hasn’t shown an upper limit that  would allow it to absorb something like the Ashura avatar or its attacks so it’s no gonna prevent the mode or its attacks from manifesting.


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 29, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Keep telling yourself that buddy. Meanwhile we have VOE


Sasuke wasn't stronger, he won by a hair thanks to plot


IpHr0z3nI said:


> BOS


4 Tails Naruto is stronger than Hebi Sasuke let alone BoS Sasuke



IpHr0z3nI said:


> VOE 2


Sasuke needed all 9 Bijuu to even match with Naruto




IpHr0z3nI said:


> As far as Adult Naruto vs. Adult Sasuke goes


Naruto is stronger, all that nonsense you said is menial and meaningless


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

MaruUchiha said:


> Sasuke wasn't stronger, he won by a hair thanks to plot


Salty, much...



> 4 Tails Naruto is stronger than Hebi Sasuke let alone BoS Sasuke


Care to revisit their first meeting in shippuden? I believe Sasuke shut shit down, but the level of Salt here is amazing.


> Sasuke needed all 9 Bijuu to even match with Naruto


Is deflecting your Day Job?
We were discussing results not how they got there.

You said Naruto was always stronger, but you make excuses as to why he has yet to beat Sasuke.



> Naruto is stronger, all that nonsense you said is menial and meaningless


Is that something that Kishi said or portrayed, or is that something you made up. 

You make excuses for why Naruto has yet to best Sasuke. You make excuses of why Sasuke is always on or in some cases above Naruto's pay grade, but you fall short of explaining why.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Yes, because two of them literally pulled out PS to ground forcefully, with 9 of those KA bondage rapes PS.


Pulled to the ground and holding him are totally different things. 



> Those tails received some damage, so what? KA tails can regenerate those damages casually.


It's not so much as he can regenerate them. It's showcase to you that Susano'o is very capable of slicing through them, unlike their initial confrontation implies.(If you need to know what I talking about, I'm referring to 695 page 7)



> Because juubito was fast.


What does that have to do with initial argument of Naruto using his tail to restrain Juubito?

Sasuke was flying when Naruto caught his leg. How does that translate to Naruto holding him down. 
I guess I can just go ahead respond recklessly as well; since their is slight cannon to prove my point. Sasuke slashes through Naruto's tails before he get a chance to retrain him.



> Yes Sasuke blitzed Naruto(which Naruto was able to react anyway) which achieved nothing, just like PS blitzing KA with Ameno here will achieve nothing.


First of all; Do you even know how Ameno works? Please read the manga. It allows Sasuke switch places between himself and anything he wants that is within range. And judging by Adult usage of it. It's become a staple in his arsenal outright. If captured, like you allude to, what prevents him from using Ameno to escape Naruto's grasp? Even if he is forced deactivate Susano'o, it's not like he cannot immediately access it once he is out of Naruto's grasp.



> KA will either tank or block everything PS dish out with its tails, after Ameno goes to cool down, KA decimates PS mid-diff.


You can't have it both ways. You cant state that Naruto would do X with his tails based on Y. Without taking into account that Sasuke can do X to his tails based on Y as well. You have a feat of Naruto grasping Susano'o ankles with his tail, and I have a scan of Susano'o successfully cutting through his tails on the second attempt.



> Ameno does not give PS ability to defeat KA, Ameno gives PS ability to survive against KA for some time,  then PS gets destroyed once Ameno goes cool down.


Please stick to the argument, and stop wasting both of our times. Ameno was cited to be a means to escape whatever plan Naruto has to hold PS with his tails, and that's all I said. Secondly please read the fucking manga/watch the anime. Ameno was never cited to have a cool down period as an Adult. His new cool down jutsu is teleporting Kaguya's dimensions. If you need proof of this refer back to Sasuke against Shin, where he utilized it despite his Rinnegan being on cool down.


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## The Great One (Oct 30, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Pulled to the ground and holding him are totally different things.
> 
> 
> It's not so much as he can regenerate them. It's showcase to you that Susano'o is very capable of slicing through them, unlike their initial confrontation implies.(If you need to know what I talking about, I'm referring to 695 page 7)
> ...


I've read manga unlike you which is why you're saying bs fanon like PS sword cutting up KA tails which is btw never happened in Manga. 

I'm sticking to argument. 

Naruto's chakra Reserves > Sasuke's chakra Reserves. 

Sasuke spams ameno against Naruto, then Naruto kills Sasuke once he is incapable of using Ameno anymore. 

And Ameno takes large chunk of Sasuke's reserves.

Its not, If KA can stop PS from running away with 2 tails then it can forcefully hold down PS with more tails. 

No PS is incapable of slicing through KA tails. 
Page 7.

Page 8

PS sword did not even damaged KA tail in above panel. 
Also page 13

PS still can't cut through KA tail.

Yes i can have it both ways, i can state Naruto can block all of PS offence with KA tails, with taking account that Sasuke cutting of KA tail never happened. 

Yes Sasuke can spam Ameno as much as he want that will only make him tire quickly and easier for Naruto to kill him.


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 30, 2018)

Hussain said:


> Sasuke needs all 9 Bijuus to be able to compete with Naruto.


No he doesnt

He needs all 9 Biju to compete with naruto + an entire fucking planet of energy

Unamped wise they are pretty much dead even.

No ones disputing that if AA comes out Sasuek loses, but framing it like Sasuke is outclassed start to finish is just dishonest af

Itd be like me saying "Naruto needs World NE to beat Sasukes PS at VOTE2 because Sasuke has the OPTION of using the Biju"

Dumb logic


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

Hussain said:


> Sasuke needs all 9 Bijuus to be able to compete with Naruto.


What is the power of the rinnegan then. He captured and absorb the chakra of the tailed beast which the rinnegan grant.If he didn't absorb the chakra then what is the usefulness of the preta path.


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

Naruto has always been about raw power, chakra and destructive capabilities whist sasuke has always been about hax, speed and versatility.                                     Bijuudama get absorb.                                 Multiple bijjudama get pushed by chou shinrei tensei.                                                  Ashura Avatar is useless because the opponent can teleport. If it becomes battle of stamina sasuke will have plenty because he would have absorb most chakra to fuel him up. And like the kaguya and madara fight naruto can be teleported in front of his own attacks.         Sasuke wins midd diff.


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 30, 2018)

Mori Jin said:


> Right so it wasn't stated by Naruto and Kurama, that sasuke became stronger then him


Youre not capable of understanding what Im saying

Cuz this is the third time youve failed

I NEVER said Sasuke>Naruto, I said Saske GREW more than Naruto did as of adulthood.

meaning, the gap between Teen Sasuke and Adult Sasuke is LARGER than teh gap between Teen Naruto and Adult Naruto.

Not a hard concept.


Mori Jin said:


> You could have just said you made it up.


I didnt make it up

Sasuke is capable of fighting someone > Naruto on relatively equal physical terms now, he wasnt anywhere close to even Narutos level as a Teen.

These are facts.


Mori Jin said:


> > I say Ashura Avatar (which was my whole point from the first post).
> > Troglodyte brings up "BASE" power.


So are you just incapable of comprehending that Naruto cant just shit out AA and as a result needs to fight in Base for awhile? And as a result will have a hard time overpowering Sasuke who is now his equal?

Or are you just being dishonest as fuck and omitting said context?


Mori Jin said:


> Are you stable?


Are you stupid?


Mori Jin said:


> He was familiar with them as one can get


No

No he wasnt

Its outright fucking stated he wasnt you mouthbreather

Brought that up to you several times now


Mori Jin said:


> you know the ins and outs as its already programmed. That's how dojutsus work.


No it fucking isnt 

What ass did you pull this out of you troll?

Did you miss the fucking part where Sasuke started witha fucking 1T Sharingan and it PROGRESSED to a 3T as he MASTERED HIS ABILITIES?

Did you miss the fucking part where his Susanoo started off as a damn ribcage and he didnt just shit out a fucking Perfect Susanoo at the FKS?

Did you miss the fucking part where he outright states he has NO IDEA what his Rinnegan could do the first time he used it?

NOWHERE in this manga can you find an example of "hurr durr preprogrammed eyes lel"

Thats fanfic garbage

Which im growing to expect from you based on our past encounters and your "GENIUS" display here


Mori Jin said:


> Yeah go and prove there was more to learn from the paths he used in VOTE 2


> That awkward moment when Sasuke gets VISIBLY better with Amenotejikara post war
> That awkward moment when Sasuke can fucking CROSS DIMENSIONS with his Rinnegan post war but outright didnt have that ability developed during the Kaguya fight
> That awkward moment when Kurama outright states (and Sasuek straight up proves) that his use of Preta path is incredibly lackluster during his fight with Naruto

I didnt know your foot could go that far down your throat


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## Trojan (Oct 30, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> No he doesnt
> 
> He needs all 9 Biju to compete with naruto + an entire fucking planet of energy
> 
> ...





Why does people bring the garbage when it comes to Naruto?  

in this case, Sasuke brought All 9 Bijuu + PS, Rinnegan + Enton...etc to come to assist him against Naruto. 


Why doesn't anyone say

Asspulldara brought Kurama to help him against Hashirama who cheated and brought SM to help him... 



I just lost some of my brain cells reading this post.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trojan (Oct 30, 2018)

PrimeRichard said:


> What is the power of the rinnegan then. He captured and absorb the chakra of the tailed beast which the rinnegan grant.If he didn't absorb the chakra then what is the usefulness of the preta path.



That lovely and all.

But he does not have the 9 Bijuus anymore. Where Naruto can use SM at any time he wants.
That's the point....

Had Sasuke kept the 9Bijuus with him all the time (has access to their power at any time he wants) 
then sure, by all means, that counts as his power.

But he does not keep them...


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 30, 2018)

Hussain said:


> Why does people bring the garbage when it comes to Naruto?


Brought up a Sasuke example as well trollsain


WorldsStrongest said:


> Itd be like me saying "Naruto needs World NE to beat Sasukes PS at VOTE2 because Sasuke has the OPTION of using the Biju"
> 
> Dumb logic





Hussain said:


> in this case, Sasuke brought All 9 Bijuu + *PS, Rinnegan + Enton*...etc to come to assist him against Naruto.


The Biju example is relevant

The rest? Stupid false equivalence

PS, the Rinnegan and Enton are all abilities that exist in Sasukes BASE ARSENAL

World NE Naruto is by definition an AMPED Naruto.

Not the same thing.


Hussain said:


> Why doesn't anyone say
> 
> Asspulldara brought Kurama to help him against Hashirama


They do...

Like...

What the fuck are you talking about saying otherwise 

Madara had a fuckton of an amp there and that is THE ONLY REASON that was a fight.

By definition, Madara didnt fight with his own power...Hashirama did...And he still won


Hussain said:


> I just lost some of my brain cells reading this post.


You had any left to lose?

Im shocked based on the usual thought process behind your own content, gives the opposite impression


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## Kagutsutchi (Oct 30, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> No he doesnt


Yes he does.



> He needs all 9 Biju to compete with naruto + an entire fucking planet of energy


Actually, he used all nine bijuu to overpower naruto. the natural energy boost was to equal sasuke's indra susanoo



> Unamped wise they are pretty much dead even.


do you mean base? cos if so, then sasuke could still lose to a clone barrage, and other forms, well, let's not get started on that



> No ones disputing that if AA comes out Sasuek loses, but framing it like Sasuke is outclassed start to finish is just dishonest af


naruto still outclasses sasuke in normal kyuubi avatar.


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

Ashura avatar isn't needed.

SPSM Bijju mode Naruto + clones is more than enough to defeat Sasuke.

Naruto wins.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> I've read manga unlike you which is why you're saying bs fanon like PS sword cutting up KA tails which is btw never happened in Manga.


Yeah it did.

Don't know how to post panel but look at chapter 695 page 13 and 14. Clearly you can see that Sasuke cut of one Naruto tails, although it came at a price of breaking one of his swords.(You got page 13, why did you avoid posting 14?)



> I'm sticking to argument.


No you're not. I merely cited Ameno was adequate means to escape what you are implying and you then go on to cite "It still can't defeat Naruto" as if I said he's going to Ameno his way to victory.

Once again, stop wasting both of our times.



> Naruto's chakra Reserves > Sasuke's chakra Reserves.


Yeah we know that already. Which is why he was granted the Rinnegan, and all it's powers "EVENTUALLY" to begin with. And what you are failing to incorporate is that the opening states that BOTH HAVE KNOWLEDGE ON EACH OTHER. So Sasuke knows from prior experience that he can't overpower Naruto, which is why think Naruto wins am I right?



> Sasuke spams ameno against Naruto, then Naruto kills Sasuke once he is incapable of using Ameno anymore.


Why would he need to spam it? I only presented as a means to escape whatever "grabbing of Sasuke's Susano'o" BS you were spewing. His ultimate ace would be his ability to absorb Naruto chakara; especially if Naruto goes crazy and start spamming TBB and Asura Avatar Rasenshurken that you think Sasuke's unequip to deal with. Ask yourself why wasn't Naruto fighting like that against Momoshiki?  



> And Ameno takes large chunk of Sasuke's reserves.


Where does it say that? You do know we are talking about an Adult Sasuke here, right? The Sasuke who in shippuden was able to utilize the ability three before needing for it be recharge.(Taken from Narutopedia) Who knows what's his limit as an adult, but we do know he can do it without having the tomoe's in his eye and being severely weaken from traveling dimensions.

And from the BS you are spewing Naruto is going to be one wasting chakara by attempting to utilize the strategy implemented against Sasuke's BPS. Remember he almost ran out of chakara by attempting to counter Sasuke's efforts at VOE2. 

Since Sasuke has knowledge he is better off just allowing Naruto to take the lead. As he needs to act and behave like a counter puncher in order to at least keep pace with Naruto.



> Its not, If KA can stop PS from running away with 2 tails then it can forcefully hold down PS with more tails.


Was Sasuke even trying to run? I don't remember the anime, and I know it didn't happen in the manga.
Any who Sasuke can stalemate the tails with his swords. Or he can just disengage Susano'o outright, and reform it later. Or warp out of the way. Either way your silly argument of grabbing anything is crushed, as what you are citing didn't even occur in the manga. You are lucky I'm allowing anime filler.



> No PS is incapable of slicing through KA tails.
> Page 7.
> 
> Page 8
> ...


Why did you fail to link page 14?



> Yes i can have it both ways, i can state Naruto can block all of PS offence with KA tails, with taking account that Sasuke cutting of KA tail never happened.


He clearly can't block a chidori with his tails.....Seeing as he needed TBB  to do that. And reread a bit further Sasuke did manage to cut off a piece of Naruto's tail. 




> Yes Sasuke can spam Ameno as much as he want that will only make him tire quickly and easier for Naruto to kill him.


Yes, I think your points are either misguided or just plain out wrong.

Any who you presented a situation and I offered a adequate counter several. And make things works what you spew isn't even manga canon. Once again, you're lucky I'm allowing to utilize anime filler.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> Ashura avatar isn't needed.
> 
> SPSM Bijju mode Naruto + clones is more than enough to defeat Sasuke.
> 
> Naruto wins.


Sasuke has clones too you know...


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Sasuke has clones too you know...



Haven't shown the ability to use PS and nothing suggest they can.


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

SPSM BM Naruto avatar should be stronger than.Sasuke's PS because he gained the other half of Kurama.


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## Kagutsutchi (Oct 30, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Yeah it did.
> 
> Don't know how to post panel but look at chapter 695 page 13 and 14. Clearly you can see that Sasuke cut of one Naruto tails, although it came at a price of breaking one of his swords.(You got page 13, why did you avoid posting 14?


Sasuke didn't cut naruto's tail, what you are seeing is merely the chakra flow/flamelike chakra that using bijuu mode gives. And let's take what you are saying and put some perspective, for sasuke to break one of naruto's tails, he has to break his sword as well. and this is without taking into account that naruto typically clone spams and he can make clone kurama avatars.

So sasuke can break two swords, and one kyuubi avata can lose two tails, but the avatar still has 7 tails to smack sasuke with, and there are clones to increase the frequency of the smackdown.




> His ultimate ace would be his ability to absorb Naruto chakara;


Too bad sasuke only ever uses this ace once. And it's not like naruto doesn't stomp him in taijutsu or sasuke has shown the ability to absorb chakra during a taijutsu battle(discounting VOTE2, because naruto was exhauseted.) And naruto has knowledge on sasuke, and he has dealt with the preta path before, so he'll do it again.



> especially if Naruto goes crazy and start spamming TBB and Asura Avatar Rasenshurken that you think Sasuke's unequip to deal with.


Naruto won't go crazy and spam those, he never has.



> Since Sasuke has knowledge he is better off just allowing Naruto to take the lead. As he needs to act and behave like a counter puncher in order to at least keep pace with Naruto.


So naruto doesn't have knowledge of sasuke? get out of here.




> Any who Sasuke can stalemate the tails with his swords.


Does sasuke wield nine swords? Or can he face 4 kurama clones in battle?



> Or he can just disengage Susano'o outright, and reform it later.


Naruto can just disengage the avatars and still beat sasuke up with chakra arms, and then reform the avatar later.



> Why did you fail to link page 14?


Even in that page he didn't cut the tails at all.




> And reread a bit further Sasuke did manage to cut off a piece of Naruto's tail.


No, he didn't. Those are the chakra shroud flames that the kyuubi avatar produces


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> Haven't shown the ability to use PS and nothing suggest they can.


Well they haven't showed much of nothing. Sasuke just decided to summon them, lol. 
You see using clones is sorta out of Sasuke's character; Kinda like Naruto using clones in when he's already in BSM. But hey if you what to bring up these what if scenarios I can as well. 

Where did I say they needed the ability to utilize PS? They just need to showcase the ability to utilize the Rinnegan  with some level of competence.


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## Kagutsutchi (Oct 30, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Yeah it did.
> 
> Don't know how to post panel but look at chapter 695 page 13 and 14. Clearly you can see that Sasuke cut of one Naruto tails, although it came at a price of breaking one of his swords.(You got page 13, why did you avoid posting 14?


Sasuke didn't cut naruto's tail, what you are seeing is merely the chakra flow/flamelike chakra that using bijuu mode gives. And let's take what you are saying and put some perspective, for sasuke to break one of naruto's tails, he has to break his sword as well. and this is without taking into account that naruto typically clone spams and he can make clone kurama avatars.

So sasuke can break two swords, and one kyuubi avata can lose two tails, but the avatar still has 7 tails to smack sasuke with, and there are clones to increase the frequency of the smackdown.




> His ultimate ace would be his ability to absorb Naruto chakara;


Too bad sasuke only ever uses this ace once. And it's not like naruto doesn't stomp him in taijutsu or sasuke has shown the ability to absorb chakra during a taijutsu battle(discounting VOTE2, because naruto was exhauseted.) And naruto has knowledge on sasuke, and he has dealt with the preta path before, so he'll do it again.



> especially if Naruto goes crazy and start spamming TBB and Asura Avatar Rasenshurken that you think Sasuke's unequip to deal with.


Naruto won't go crazy and spam those, he never has.



> Since Sasuke has knowledge he is better off just allowing Naruto to take the lead. As he needs to act and behave like a counter puncher in order to at least keep pace with Naruto.


So naruto doesn't have knowledge of sasuke? get out of here.




> Any who Sasuke can stalemate the tails with his swords.


Does sasuke wield nine swords? Or can he face 4 kurama clones in battle?



> Or he can just disengage Susano'o outright, and reform it later.


Naruto can just disengage the avatars and still beat sasuke up with chakra arms, and then reform the avatar later.



> Why did you fail to link page 14?


Even in that page he didn't cut the tails at all.




> And reread a bit further Sasuke did manage to cut off a piece of Naruto's tail.


No, he didn't. Those are the chakra shroud flames that the kyuubi avatar produces


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

I only count 8 tails here so looks like Sasuke does indeed destroy 1 tail


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## Kagutsutchi (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> I only count 8 tails here so looks like Sasuke does indeed destroy 1 tail


Or it could be a drawing inconsistency


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Well they haven't showed much of nothing. Sasuke just decided to summon them, lol.
> You see using clones is sorta out of Sasuke's character; Kinda like Naruto using clones in when he's already in BSM. But hey if you what to bring up these what if scenarios I can as well.
> 
> Where did I say they needed the ability to utilize PS? They just need to showcase the ability to utilize the Rinnegan  with some level of competence.




Without the ability to use PS, Sasuke's clones would be at disadvantage vs SPSM BM Naruto clones.


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 30, 2018)

Kamalu said:


> Yes he does.


Vs AA? Yes.

Otherwise? No he doesnt.


Kamalu said:


> Actually, he used all nine bijuu to overpower naruto. the natural energy boost was to equal sasuke's indra susanoo





> Vs AA? Yes.
> 
> Otherwise? No he doesnt.





Kamalu said:


> do you mean base?


No

I said "Unamped"


Kamalu said:


> if so, then sasuke could still lose to a clone barrage


Clones that Sasuke has as well 


Kamalu said:


> and other forms


If you were restricting both to Base then by definition there ARE NO OTHER FORMS to talk about.


Kamalu said:


> let's not get started on that


Not like you really made it anywhere 


Kamalu said:


> naruto still outclasses sasuke in normal kyuubi avatar.


No he doesnt



Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> Haven't shown the ability to use PS and nothing suggest they can.


Do you think 50% of Sasukes reserves are too small to make PS?

Keep in mind, 50% of Sasuke = 25% of Hagormo...Do you think 1/4 Sage of Six Paths is insufficient to make a PS?

Cuz thats what youd need to believe in order to buy that Sasukes clones cant use Susanoo


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

Kamalu said:


> Or it could be a drawing inconsistency



or Sasuke destroyed a tail.

PS power was hyped to be able to destroy all things in creation and so far it has lived up to that hype.

Able to cut Buddha hands, Mokujin, Mokuton, SPSM Naruto avatar tails...etc


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Vs AA? Yes.
> 
> Otherwise? No he doesnt.
> 
> ...



Sasuke received some of the Sage's chakra to awaken the Rinnegan, but not the half that was the seal.

The seals chakra never entered their system it was contained in the tattoos.


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

MaruUchiha said:


> Naruto has always been stronger than Sasuke.. He never was trying to kill Sasuke when they fought unlike Sasuke


U must be joking. Wait can naruto even fly because he has not been shown flying after the war which is fifteen years. If he can't he's gonna be in trouble as PS will be flying and raining all attacks on him. Can naruto counter CORELESS CHIBAKU TENSEI on himself.


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> Sasuke received some of the Sage's chakra to awaken the Rinnegan, but not the half that was the seal.
> 
> The seals chakra never entered their system it was contained in the tattoos.


If this was the case, Naruto would have lost Rikudo SM and Sasuek would have lost the Rinnegan if the Six Paths chakra they received was tethered to their seals

Not only that, but they would have been HELLA weaker upon losing said seals...And in fact they are MUCH stronger.

Reactions: Like 1


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

H


Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> Ashura avatar isn't needed.
> 
> SPSM Bijju mode Naruto + clones is more than enough to defeat Sasuke.
> 
> Naruto wins.


Has his clones ever had an advantage over sasuke before. It will just be like the bijuus all over again because sasuke can use coreless chibaku tensei on all the clones and unlike momoshiki who escape the moment sasuke traps naruto PS chidori will follow


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> If this was the case, Naruto would have lost Rikudo SM and Sasuek would have lost the Rinnegan if the Six Paths chakra they received was tethered to their seals
> 
> Not only that, but they would have been HELLA weaker upon losing said seals...And in fact they are MUCH stronger.



DB states SPSM was a gift to Naruto by Hagoromo and yes the seals have nothing to do with their power.

That means Hagoromo gave them the gift/SPSM/Rinnegan and seal at the same time, but they're different.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

Kamalu said:


> Sasuke didn't cut naruto's tail, what you are seeing is merely the chakra flow/flamelike chakra that using bijuu mode gives. And let's take what you are saying and put some perspective, for sasuke to break one of naruto's tails, he has to break his sword as well. and this is without taking into account that naruto typically clone spams and he can make clone kurama avatars.


Are you serious? We clearly have a tail that shorter than rest of them conveniently after clashing with Sasuke's sword, and you're expecting me to believe it's the flow/flamelike of the chakara. At least if you're going to throw your hat in the ring have the ability to see actual cannon for what it is.



> So sasuke can break two swords, and one kyuubi avata can lose two tails, but the avatar still has 7 tails to smack sasuke with, and there are clones to increase the frequency of the smackdown.


I thought you said that the tails didn't break. So now you're doubling down? Naruto's tails are hardly a threat, as Sasuke clearly alluded to in the manga. You can't get much more not afraid of Naruto's tails than, "You're going to die if you keep slacking like that."

Classic case of when keeping in real goes wrong, A?





> Too bad sasuke only ever uses this ace once. And it's not like naruto doesn't stomp him in taijutsu or sasuke has shown the ability to absorb chakra during a taijutsu battle(discounting VOTE2, because naruto was exhauseted.) And naruto has knowledge on sasuke, and he has dealt with the preta path before, so he'll do it again.


Uses that ace once, A? And how many times has Naruto utilize BSM clones, Asura Avatar, etc. etc.? Better yet how many times has Adult Naruto and Sasuke fought. It's called speculation my guy. Both sides are merely throwing in their hats hoping that their argument would have some merit.

Naruto stomps in taijutsu, A? Just like VOE2, right? Oh wait..... Sasuke doesn't even utilize taijutsu unless he has to, hence the sword on his back. And I must say that even with one arm; Sasuke performed quite well against Kinshiki. Let us not forget that he's capable of using enton swords, shurikens, and other various ninja tools.  If you're expecting Sasuke to throw hands with Naruto you are mistaken, he only has one arm Sherlock.




> Naruto won't go crazy and spam those, he never has.


Are you reading others arguments outside of your own? BM Clones, Asura Avatar. I have heard it all up until this point.




> So naruto doesn't have knowledge of sasuke? get out of here.


Oh he does. 
But that still doesn't change the fact that Sasuke needs to fight more conservatively, and only escalate the battle when need be. If it's a taijutsu/KENJUTSU battle Naruto wants let him have it. If anything Adult Sasuke has shown is his improvment in is utilizing his none PS abilities more effectively.(He's had to adjust to life with one arm) 





> Does sasuke wield nine swords? Or can he face 4 kurama clones in battle?


Sasuke does need to wield nine swords because Naruto's tails don't even function like swords; Hence when PS and BM fuse it's always Sasuke's avatar that's supplying the sword. His tails are not sharp nor the they even have the capabilities of threatening a PS, so I fail to see your points. Face 4 Kurama clones, so much for Naruto not going crazy right? Sasuke has clones as well, as what extent they are capable of is unknown. But one thing is for sure he doesn't need them to match the chakara output of Naruto, he just need them to have the ability to utilize the bare bones of what his Rinnegan is capable of. 




> Naruto can just disengage the avatars and still beat sasuke up with chakra arms, and then reform the avatar later.


Chakara arms are made of chakara right? Yeah we have the ability to absorb those. Speculation can occur from both sides.




> Even in that page he didn't cut the tails at all.


Yeah it did, unless you can explain why ONE TAIL IN SHORTER THAN THE OTHER. Oh wait it's flickering light "Flames" yeah cut the BS....You even practically admitted it did with your second paragraph.

"Chill young this your long man's fight, you can't cover that...."





> No, he didn't. Those are the chakra shroud flames that the kyuubi avatar produces


Lol, what.....So why aren't the other one's flickering? You need to learn to concede to points with proven, and blatantly admitting when you're mistaken.


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

Hussain said:


> That lovely and all.
> 
> But he does not have the 9 Bijuus anymore. Where Naruto can use SM at any time he wants.
> That's the point....
> ...


Naruto also haven't shown to use any of the bijuu chakra over fifteen years. So its basically sasuke without bijuu amp against naruto who can use Ashura avatar.                                        Rasenshriken and TBB got absorb.             Multi clones get coreless chibaku tensei and PS chiori.                                                  Ashura avatar big attack will be evaded by sasuke who can teleport and can also repel attacks on higher level than nagato


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> DB states SPSM was a gift to Naruto by Hagoromo


Along with the chakra he gave him to activate it

Same with Sasukes Rinnegan

Which is assimilated into their base reserves as they retain these gifts after losing teh seal


Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> the seals have nothing to do with their power


They dont need to be related to prove they received the Sages chakra


Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> That means Hagoromo gave them the gift/SPSM/Rinnegan and seal at the same time, but they're different


Yes, but the chakra he gave to them became theirs, thats why, as i said earlier, they dont get exponentially weaker upon losing the seals, and in fact become MUCH more powerful.

Had Sasuke not received half of Hagoromos chakra to his base reserves, he wouldnt have been capable of fighting Naruto as long as he did, nor would he be capable of opening portals between dimensions as an adult, a feat that tired even kaguya, who had more chakra than even JJ Madara post Shinju.


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

PrimeRichard said:


> U must be joking. Wait can naruto even fly because he has not been shown flying after the war which is fifteen years. If he can't he's gonna be in trouble as PS will be flying and raining all attacks on him. Can naruto counter CORELESS CHIBAKU TENSEI on himself.



We see SPSM Naruto's Bijuu mode floating when he rescued Sasuke after Momo burned part of his face.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

To add to my previous points. You are right Kurama's tails do flicker just like here.(Chapter 610 page 14)
Particularly after they've been damaged. In that panel we have one tail that shorter than the other. After clashing with Sasuke's sword.(Coincidence? I think not)


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> We see SPSM Naruto's Bijuu mode floating when he rescued Sasuke after Momo burned part of his face.


In their battle against juubito both were floating and attacking in air so nothing new. You know there is a difference between floating and flying right.


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

PrimeRichard said:


> H
> 
> Has his clones ever had an advantage over sasuke before. It will just be like the bijuus all over again because sasuke can use coreless chibaku tensei on all the clones and unlike momoshiki who escape the moment sasuke traps naruto PS chidori will follow



Sasuke's CT will be destroyed effortless by Bijuudama so they're useless against Naruto.

Naruto can fire multiple Bijuudama continuously.


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## Muah (Oct 30, 2018)

MaruUchiha said:


> Naruto has always been stronger than Sasuke.. He never was trying to kill Sasuke when they fought unlike Sasuke


 i think theres little insight in this post. its like your trying to be funny. remember their first vote fight.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> Sasuke's CT will be destroyed effortless by Bijuudama so they're useless against Naruto.
> 
> Naruto can fire multiple Bijuudama continuously.


How can Naruto fire a TBB while being confined inside the ball? He would have to have himself or one of his clones firing at the CT, which would probably destroy the clones or him if he isn't careful.


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

PrimeRichard said:


> In their battle against juubito both were floating and attacking in air so nothing new. You know there is a difference between floating and flying right.



Against Juubito they were jumping in the branches to reach him.

BSM Naruto and CS2 Legged Susano'o v3 EMS Sasuke can't fly.

They were suspended in the air for few seconds.

SPSM grants the ability to fly and Naruto is using that form so he was flying like he did vs Sasuke in VOTE2


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> Sasuke's CT will be destroyed effortless by Bijuudama so they're useless against Naruto.
> 
> Naruto can fire multiple Bijuudama continuously.


Wait you're thinking of nagato's own. Am talking about coreless chibaku tensei the one that was used on momoshiki. Naruto can't destroy anything because he himself is the core


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> Against Juubito they were jumping in the branches to reach him.
> 
> BSM Naruto and CS2 Legged Susano'o v3 EMS Sasuke can't fly.
> 
> ...


In the gaiden who were flying naruto and sarada to shin base. The only thing i saw was flying PS. It seems he jumped to save sasuke instead


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

PrimeRichard said:


> Wait you're thinking of nagato's own. Am talking about coreless chibaku tensei the one that was used on momoshiki. Naruto can't destroy anything because he himself is the core



Momoshiki was able to use Mokuton jutsu don't see why Naruto can't use Bijuu laser to destroy it.


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

PrimeRichard said:


> In the gaiden who were flying naruto and sarada to shin base. The only thing i saw was flying PS. It seems he jumped to save sasuke instead



There wasn't any need for Naruto to use his Kurama avatar when Sasuke airline can fly everyone of them to the base.


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> How can Naruto fire a TBB while being confined inside the ball? He would have to have himself or one of his clones firing at the CT, which would probably destroy the clones or him if he isn't careful.



He can use Bijuu laser to destroy them.


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## The Great One (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> I only count 8 tails here so looks like Sasuke does indeed destroy 1 tail


More like drawing inconsistency. 

PS was attacking on tip of tail causing no damage.




And PS sword slice things to half. 



Then that we're finding out KA missing one tail right now is a inconsistency.


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> Momoshiki was able to use Mokuton jutsu don't see why Naruto can't use Bijuu laser to destroy it.


I have already said it in one of my earlier post that unlike momoshiki sasuke will squeeze his hand and crush naruto from the inside and follow with PS chidori. The same chidori without PS which destroyed a meteor in the last.


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

PrimeRichard said:


> I have already said it in one of my earlier post that unlike momoshiki sasuke will squeeze his hand and crush naruto from the inside and follow with PS chidori. The same chidori without PS which destroyed a meteor in the last.



Sasuke can squeeze his hand all he wants, but nothing stop Naruto from using Bijuu laser to destroy it.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> He can use Bijuu laser to destroy them.


And kill himself? You do know their a such thing a recoil right? And they are call TBB for a reason. 
Any who I do think your idea could work, but it would have to be done early. Like before the orb could take full shape. Nothing close to what happened to Momoshiki where he trapped for quite a while.


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> There wasn't any need for Naruto to use his Kurama avatar when Sasuke airline can fly everyone of them to the base.


The reason am saying this is after the war naruto hasn't used his healing to cure injured people nor has he used TSB which all constitute of SPSM so who knows he can/cannot fly


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> Sasuke can squeeze his hand all he wants, but nothing stop Naruto from using Bijuu laser to destroy it.


I think he can teleport and use PS chidori faster to destroy it than naruto can destroy it


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> More like drawing inconsistency.
> 
> PS was attacking on tip of tail causing no damage.
> 
> ...


Stop it. He's clearly referring to panel you are failing to show. Which it does feature a tail that shorter than the others, as it appears to have been damage. Accept cannon and stop linking these silly panels that don't support what you are arbitrating.


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## Trojan (Oct 30, 2018)

PrimeRichard said:


> Naruto also haven't shown to use any of the bijuu chakra over fifteen years. So its basically sasuke without bijuu amp against naruto who can use Ashura avatar.                                        Rasenshriken and TBB got absorb.             Multi clones get coreless chibaku tensei and PS chiori.                                                  Ashura avatar big attack will be evaded by sasuke who can teleport and can also repel attacks on higher level than nagato



The Asura Avatar/ Global natural energy has nothing to do with the Bijuus power that. 
he did not even use any of them besides Kurama's against Sasuke at the VOTE. 

the rest of your post is merely a fanfiction. It's not like Naruto has never faced someone who absorb chakra

Pain, Nagato, Obito, Asspulldara, Kaguya, Toneri, Momoshiki, and Sasuke himself....etc etc 
So, yeah, he has good experience on how to deal with those... ck



furthermore, the Bijuus are able to communicate with him at any point as they were meant to do by Haguromo
and as shown in Boruto the anime


at 0:20
"I am still connected with Naruto and the others"


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

Hussain said:


> The Asura Avatar/ Global natural energy has nothing to do with the Bijuus power that.
> he did not even use any of them besides Kurama's against Sasuke at the VOTE.
> 
> the rest of your post is merely a fanfiction. It's not like Naruto has never faced someone who absorb chakra
> ...


And which of those users have been shown to perform CORELESS chibaku tensei. He have knowledge on the black orb as the center of gravity which sasuke doesn't use.


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## The Great One (Oct 30, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Stop it. He's clearly referring to panel you are failing to show. Which it does feature a tail that shorter than the others, as it appears to have been damage. Accept cannon and stop linking these silly panels that don't support what you are arbitrating.


Or you stop being stupid.

How many tails you can count here.


Those things behind KA are not even resembling anything like tails there.

And this is KA clone a panel before.



Kishimoto draws those short, long, in numerical inconsistency all of time and it does not support your argument.

But you what? AA still one shots PS.


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

PrimeRichard said:


> The reason am saying this is after the war naruto hasn't used his healing to cure injured people nor has he used TSB which all constitute of SPSM so who knows he can/cannot fly



His Jesus healing abilities  was because of the seals which he lost after sealing Kaguya.

Another way he can heal is using Kurama's chakra as we saw with Sasuke.

TSB can't be regenerated after they're lost his 3 last ones were destroyed in the clash vs Sasuke in VOTEII.

SPSM grants fly and Naruto is using that form so he should be able to fly.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Or you stop being stupid.


Stupid? You are the one he can seem to accept that Sasuke clipped of Naruto's tails despite your long man agreeing that it did. Despite showcasing the state of Naruto's tails immediately following a clash with Sasuke's sword.



> How many tails you can count here.


Nine....What this have to do with chapter 695 page 14?



> Those things behind KA are not even resembling anything like tails there.


Actually they do, they're merely scrunched together. 



> And this is KA clone a panel before.


Your point?




> Kishimoto draws those short, long, in numerical inconsistency all of time and it does not support your argument.


But that's the problem. The tails on the panel in question were consistent until we reach that one stump with flickers at the end of it indicating it's been damaged as it's tip is separated from it's base.


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> Healing was because of the seals which he lost after sealing Kaguya
> 
> TSB can't be regenerated after they're lost his 3 last ones were destroyed in the clash vs Sasuke in VOTEII.


Am not denying, just that i haven't seen him fly in fifteen years. Hopefully i will be proven wrong when he does


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## The Great One (Oct 30, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Stupid? You are the one he can seem to accept that Sasuke clipped of Naruto's tails despite your long man agreeing that it did. Despite showcasing the state of Naruto's tails immediately following a clash with Sasuke's sword.
> 
> 
> Nine....What this have to do with chapter 695 page 14?
> ...


Really Naruto was not even using the tails you claimed to be damaged.


So how the tails Naruto was actually using against PS did not got damaged but tail he did not used did? 

Actually in comparison to body KA tails in panel below are larger.

But you know what? Naruto goes Asura Avatar and destroys Sasuke.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Really Naruto was not even using the tails you claimed to be damaged.
> 
> 
> So how the tails Naruto was actually using against PS did not got damaged but tail he did not used did?


Why are you continuously trying to play me. The first panel linked isn't from page 13. That page 7 from the respective chapter. Stop playing with me.



> Actually in comparison to body KA tails in panel below are larger.


That's not even the argument. We're are discussing whether Sasuke's Susano'o stalemated one of Naruto's tails. Keep in one hundred my G.



> But you know what? Naruto goes Asura Avatar and destroys Sasuke.


Yes waist Naruto's chakara by using a mode confirmed expend almost all of his reserves while Sasuke access to preta path, Ameno, S/T Travel.
You're desperate and are now just churning out anything as if these argument haven't been hard countered.


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## Kagutsutchi (Oct 30, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Vs AA? Yes.
> 
> Otherwise? No he doesnt.


Otherwise, naruto is superior to sasuke.



> Clones that Sasuke has as well


But has never used in combat and we can't know his skill with said clones in combat.




> No he doesnt


Naruto wasn't serious and held back for most of the fight. he wasn't trying to kill sasuke.

*Spoiler*: __ 







So sasuke and naruto are equal... when sasuke is trying to kill naruto and naruto is NOT trying to kill him.



> Do you think 50% of Sasukes reserves are too small to make PS?
> 
> Keep in mind, 50% of Sasuke = 25% of Hagormo...Do you think 1/4 Sage of Six Paths is insufficient to make a PS?
> 
> Cuz thats what youd need to believe in order to buy that Sasukes clones cant use Susanoo


Sasuke's clones can use susanoo, his chakra is strong and large enough, but sasuke does not use clones to fight in battle.



IpHr0z3nI said:


> Are you serious? We clearly have a tail that shorter than rest of them conveniently after clashing with Sasuke's sword, and you're expecting me to believe it's the flow/flamelike of the chakara. At least if you're going to throw your hat in the ring have the ability to see actual cannon for what it is.


 
It's a drawing inconsistency, in the first scan you can count nine tails, while in the second you only see eight, with no stump of a ninth to show that it was even there before being cut off. Also, counting clockwise, you'll notice that naruto uses his 2nd and 4th tail to block sasuke's PS sword, but in page 14, The 2nd and *8th* tail are shorter at the same length. But, if you want to disregard this, okay, it's not like the tails are naruto's main offensive weapons.




> You can't get much more not afraid of Naruto's tails than, "You're going to die if you keep slacking like that."
> 
> Classic case of when keeping in real goes wrong, A?


That quote shows that naruto was holding back when sasuke was doing his best to kill him, so it proves my point even further.




> Uses that ace once, A?


yes A.



> And how many times has Naruto utilize BSM clones,


I see you're Ignoring the fact that naruto using clones is in character for him to do irrespective of whatever form he's in, so i'm not even gonna bother answering this question with the most obvious answer. Clones are his signature technique, we can't say he doesn't use clones in whatever form unless we have a canon reason for that.



> Asura Avatar, etc. etc.?


Once, which is why you don't see me throwing it around.



> Better yet how many times has Adult Naruto and Sasuke fought. It's called speculation my guy. Both sides are merely throwing in their hats hoping that their argument would have some merit.


Your argument only has merit when it is backed up by canon



> Naruto stomps in taijutsu, A? Just like VOE2, right?


Naruto wasn't trying to kill sasuke and after their jutsu clash, they fought in base the rest of the time.



> Oh wait..... Sasuke doesn't even utilize taijutsu unless he has to, hence the sword on his back.


this still doesn't change the fact that naruto kicks his ass in taijutsu as kenjutsu is a branch of taijutsu.



> And I must say that even with one arm; Sasuke performed quite well against Kinshiki.


Sure.



> Let us not forget that he's capable of using enton swords,


Which do nothing to naruto.



> shurikens, and other various ninja tools.


Yep, those def kill naruto.



> If you're expecting Sasuke to throw hands with Naruto you are mistaken, he only has one arm Sherlock.


Even still, naruto stomps in taijutsu.



> Oh he does.
> But that still doesn't change the fact that Sasuke needs to fight more conservatively, and only escalate the battle when need be. If it's a taijutsu/KENJUTSU battle Naruto wants let him have it. If anything Adult Sasuke has shown is his improvment in is utilizing his none PS abilities more effectively.(He's had to adjust to life with one arm)


Sasuke still loses.






> Face 4 Kurama clones, so much for Naruto not going crazy right?


How is naruto using clones going crazy?




> Sasuke has clones as well,


That he never uses in canon.



> But one thing is for sure he doesn't need them to match the chakara output of Naruto, he just need them to have the ability to utilize the bare bones of what his Rinnegan is capable of.


sasuke doesn't use clones in character so moot point.





> Chakara arms are made of chakara right? Yeah we have the ability to absorb those. Speculation can occur from both sides.


Never happened. and chakra absorption is OOC for sasuke as per canon.




> Lol, what.....So why aren't the other one's flickering? You need to learn to concede to points with proven, and blatantly admitting when you're mistaken.


Yeah you stil haven't made any points.



Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> or Sasuke destroyed a tail.
> 
> PS power was hyped to be able to destroy all things in creation and so far it has lived up to that hype.
> 
> Able to cut Buddha hands, Mokujin, Mokuton, SPSM Naruto avatar tails...etc


Whatever at this point.


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## Trojan (Oct 30, 2018)

PrimeRichard said:


> And which of those users have been shown to perform CORELESS chibaku tensei. He have knowledge on the black orb as the center of gravity which sasuke doesn't use.


Not sure how is that going to help exactly? 
Naruto can simply break out of it.


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

Hussain said:


> Not sure how is that going to help exactly?
> Naruto can simply break out of it.


He can if only sasuke stand and not attack him like momoshiki. What i mean is after naruto get trap sasuke can teleport and one-shot  him with PS chidori before naruto can react because teleportation is instant.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

Kamalu said:


> Otherwise, naruto is superior to sasuke.


In raw power, maybe. But Sasuke has always made up for it in the form of Hax…..

AA has one attack that's capable of killing Sasuke.
AA have very few feats in general it was utilize solely as a means to counter Indra's Arrow.
And don't get me wrong Indra's arrow is powerful, it is still Sasuke's most powerful jutsu to date, but in the end it not only failed to kill Naruto, it depleted his chakara reserves so low that he couldn't even utilize his dojutsus properly. Do you think Sasuke would try to overpower Naruto again in a clash of most powerful jutsu? He'd be stupid to try that tactic a second time. Especially with knowledge.




> But has never used in combat and we can't know his skill with said clones in combat.


Is that because incapable or is simply out of choice. They don't need to be able to replicate Sasuke in raw power. They just need to be able to utilize some of his jutsu. Naruto almost overwhelmed Sasuke with clones thrice, and two of those times were in base.(At least in the anime)





> Naruto wasn't serious and held back for most of the fight. he wasn't trying to kill sasuke.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


Your links don't work. You need to consult with a vet who knows how to implement panel.(I do as well, lol)
For now just post the chapter and the panel; not that you need to, as I can kind of see where you are going with this.
Did Naruto really not try to kill Sasuke the entire fight? In the anime he only had a chance to best Sasuke once, and even that is questionable because it was a mere TBB, which even Madara's V4 blocked.(Chapter 620 page 16 on manga viewer) And that was from a full powered Kurama




> Sasuke's clones can use susanoo, his chakra is strong and large enough, but sasuke does not use clones to fight in battle.


And neither does Adult Naruto hardly. Especially in his BSM state. I would rather have you disputed Sasuke's clones were incapable of producing a PS, than implicating out right that he does not use him; therefore he can not have them. This is almost pure speculation from both sides. Acting out of character something we have  to do to even generate a discussion. 




> It's a drawing inconsistency, in the first scan you can count nine tails, while in the second you only see eight, with no stump of a ninth to show that it was even there before being cut off. Also, counting clockwise, you'll notice that naruto uses his 2nd and 4th tail to block sasuke's PS sword, but in page 14, The 2nd and *8th* tail are shorter at the same length. But, if you want to disregard this, okay, it's not like the tails are naruto's main offensive weapons.


Once again, your links don't work. Hence you need to ask someone how to do that.

Secondly we don't know which tail was you to block PS sword. We only see a panel of a piece of Sasuke's sword flying, and a later panel of Naruto's avatar missing a piece of one of his tails. I don't want to put much analyze into this because to me it's as plain as day.



> That quote shows that naruto was holding back when sasuke was doing his best to kill him, so it proves my point even further.


Holding back, A? Can't the same be true for both characters at that point. It's not as if Sasuke was using all of his option at that point even with his normal Susano'o, lol. The quote was simply me showcasing to you that Naruto's tails were hardly a threat.




> I see you're Ignoring the fact that naruto using clones is in character for him to do irrespective of whatever form he's in, so i'm not even gonna bother answering this question with the most obvious answer. Clones are his signature technique, we can't say he doesn't use clones in whatever form unless we have a canon reason for that.


Using clones in base, yes. Using clones with SM, maybe. Using clones with BSM is an anomaly.(Only Once) He hasn't utilize clones like that against Toneri or as an Adult against Momoshiki; two opponents in which were arguably as strong if not stronger than VOE2 Sasuke.

Naruto isn't dumb. Or at least as dumb as you people are trying to make him to be. He isn't going to mindless spam high level clones in which would only serve as means to deplete his chakara. Especially given Sasuke has the ability to absorb chakara; handle multiple opponents via CT, etc.




> Once, which is why you don't see me throwing it around.


Didn't you mention it against another poster? The same goes for BSM clones by the way.




> Your argument only has merit when it is backed up by canon


And what isn't exactly canon? Things taken from the manga/anime, right?(I have to include anime because some of a previous posters feats, and the source of why Sasuke needs to be able to cut the tails stems from the anime)
Besides it's was already made canon that Naruto and Sasuke were equals. As expressed in the fourth databook.
Besides it's already canon that Naruto and Sasuke are equals based on the results of VOE2.

Even in Baruto; Their best feats come from working as a pair, and the most powerful variation of them is another fused showcasing of Biju Susano'o.




> Naruto wasn't trying to kill sasuke and after their jutsu clash, they fought in base the rest of the time.


We are talking about solely the taijutsu portion. In which Naruto definitely was sick of Sasuke's BS by time their last exchange of "hands" were thrown. Naruto was trying to utilize a rasengan on a base Sasuke, which would have definitely killed him judging from their final exchange.




> this still doesn't change the fact that naruto kicks his ass in taijutsu as kenjutsu is a branch of taijutsu.


No it's not. Kenjutsu and taijutsu have always been treated as two different things, and Naruto has yet to face Sasuke using kenjutsu.(He was stripped of his sword in the final bout) Now who failing to utilize canon. Now who is just basing their opinion of baseless speculation not supported by the manga. Sasuke doesn't utilize solely taijutsu in his kenjutsu exchanges, he uses several ninjutsu including raton, entons, Ameno, etc. etc. In the anime we even have he him utilize Bansho Tenin and enton to rid himself of Naruto's initial clones. You argue about canon, but you're not even using it. 



> Sure.


And even against Kinshiki he didn't solely rely on kenjutsu/taijutsu….He utilize several shushins and even resorted to using Ameno at one instance.

If you expect to go at Naruto using solely taijutsu, when his Ace is clearly ninjutsu you are foolish. Especially with one arm.




> Which do nothing to naruto.


Just like against Naruto's clones right, oh wait? Please watch their initial clash at VOE.
Naruto was stabbed by Sasuke's standard Kusanagi in the gaiden if while using Kurama Sage mode. Sure it didn't phase him much, but then again the wound wasn't fatal to begin with. You are talking about Naruto engaging Sasuke in taijutsu without regards to what stage he is using, and it's been proven by canon that enton construct can kill him in base. And Sasuke alludes to it being effect against Kurama avatar Naruto if he had the ability to control his eye. This is the same enton ability that was able to slice through Kaguya's Ice dimension. You are foolish to dismiss the potential of enton againstT a TAIJUTSU FIGHTING Naruto.

And what's up with these very brief one line answers. That don't seem to be back by anything, but your own baseless opinion. Put some effort into your post young blood, or you're not going to be taken seriously.




> Yep, those def kill naruto.


See momoshiki battle.....
See Sasuke going against Naruto at VOE2(Chapter 697 page 8 Manga viewer)

If you're not going to at least try to incorporate panel don't expect a serious reply in the future.




> Even still, naruto stomps in taijutsu.


And this is based on what? Naruto engaging Sasuke in taijutsu has led to nothing but either a loss or stalemate in the past. And that was Sasuke without his sword.




> Sasuke still loses.


And that is your baseless opinion.(You see I can do the one liners too)







> How is naruto using clones going crazy?


Do you even remember what you wrote? You didn't cite Naruto merely uses basic clones. You alluded to Naruto using 4 Kurama clones. That's not only out of character it's a waist of chakara. Sasuke can CT the clones as well as the original Naruto. And at very least his clones are destroyed. It didn't take much for Sasuke BPS to deal with them at VOE2, and it was using bare bones taijutsu.





> That he never uses in canon.


So Baruto isn't canon?




> sasuke doesn't use clones in character so moot point.


And Naruto doesn't utilize Kurama clones on the regular so it's a moot point as well.
You want both characters acting in character......See the Momoshiki battle in which no clones from either were used.
(Stop playing with grown folks, please)






> Never happened. and chakra absorption is OOC for sasuke as per canon.


And Naruto only utilize Kurama clones once as per canon....Talk about double standards





> Yeah you stil haven't made any points.


And you are foolish to believe that.(Stop playing with grown folks)


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## Trojan (Oct 30, 2018)

PrimeRichard said:


> He can if only sasuke stand and not attack him like momoshiki. What i mean is after naruto get trap sasuke can teleport and one-shot  him with PS chidori before naruto can react because teleportation is instant.


He will replace himself with Naruto inside the CT? 
the amount of fanfiction is amusing...

I hope you know that Sasuke's teleportation is just a Kawarimi, and he will need to change his position with the target.
if he were to teleport, then he will be the one trapped in CT. 


Furthermore, the teleportation ITSELF is instant. Sasuke however, is not. Hence, how Momoshiki kicked his ass after Sasuke tried to teleport against him.
https://*mangalife*.us/read-online/Boruto-chapter-9-page-28.html
https://*mangalife*.us/read-online/Boruto-chapter-9-page-29.html


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## Marvel (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> Haven't shown the ability to use PS and nothing suggest they can.


Wood Clones can use Susanoo,Shadow Clones can go into Ashura Mode and etc. Nothing to suggest Saskue can't use PS on his clones


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

Blood Gifter said:


> Wood Clones can use Susanoo,Shadow Clones can go into Ashura Mode and etc. Nothing to suggest Saskue can't use PS on his clones



Perfect Susano'o is another beast compared to Legged Susano'o V3.

Do you do see Madara using PS in a Wood clone? no and  Naruto can only do it because of he has far chakra than Sasuke.


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## Marvel (Oct 30, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> Perfect Susano'o is another beast compared to Susano'o V3 and no Naruto can only do it because of he has far chakra than Sasuke.


Saskue has chakra from Hagaromo he can make multiple susanoo


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## Rai (Oct 30, 2018)

Blood Gifter said:


> Saskue has chakra from Hagaromo he can make multiple susanoo



He still has far chakra less than Naruto.


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## The Great One (Oct 30, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Why are you continuously trying to play me. The first panel linked isn't from page 13. That page 7 from the respective chapter. Stop playing with me.
> 
> 
> That's not even the argument. We're are discussing whether Sasuke's Susano'o stalemated one of Naruto's tails. Keep in one hundred my G.
> ...


And stop being an imbecile.

Chapter 7 Kurama and chapter 13 Kurama are same being engaged in same fight, i am not playing you, you're either too stupid to understand that or you're playing dumb.

And the tail you think Sasuke damaged is not the one Naruto used to block PS sword, and it was a drawing inconsistency not Sasuke damaging it, Because it was not even blocking PS sword. 

Argument is PS cutting KA tail which it did not.

Lol, waste most of his Reserves?

Here another example of you ignorance.

With AA Naruto gets chakra from all over planet, he does not waste chakra.

Yes petra which was so useful against Momoshiki : nope Sasuke was camping inside Susanoo... You somehow think Petra will help against AA when it could not even absorb Momo's TBB which Base Naruto can overpower with odama Rasengan.

Ameno which Momoshiki can react to and Naruto can fight Momo 1 on 1 in Taijutsu.

S/T travel which helps Sasuke to escape Naruto, which gives Naruto auto win due to BFR.

And i'm not desperate, you're the one who is delusional with your non-sense arguments, just like that PrimeRichard guy and his fanfiction above, You are hard countering nothing.


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## Guntah (Oct 30, 2018)

Kishimoto says they're equal...

But one of them needed nine extra Bijuu to match the other when they originally fought, and can't replicate his strongest attack. The other...well, he can.

Reactions: Like 1


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## PrimeRichard (Oct 30, 2018)

Hussain said:


> He will replace himself with Naruto inside the CT?
> the amount of fanfiction is amusing...
> 
> I hope you know that Sasuke's teleportation is just a Kawarimi, and he will need to change his position with the target.
> ...


He teleported behind kaguya without switching with any object. He also teleport madara infront of him and naruto attacks without any object to switch with.                                                          How is he getting inside the chibaku tensei when he can shoot an arrow and switch with it in front of the chibaku tensei and one-shot


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> And stop being an imbecile.


Sigh.....If you stop being stubborn.



> Chapter 7 Kurama and chapter 13 Kurama are same being engaged in same fight, i am not playing you, you're either too stupid to understand that or you're playing dumb.


Chapter? Don't you mean page? On page 7 Sasuke failed to cut Naruto's tail. On page 13 we see Sasuke broke his sword trying to breach Naruto tails. On page 14, we see full extent of the exchange in which Naruto tail was broken as well. You can't chalk it up to the inconsistency in the length of Naruto tails, as the tail is clearly shorter than the others which all have identical length. Stop playing with me



> And the tail you think Sasuke damaged is not the one Naruto used to block PS sword.


In the second exchange? Lol we don't even know which tail he used to block it, it was shown. The only thing the readers are given was the exchange between a sword and one of Naruto's tails, and a broken tail as well as sword following the conclusion of that exchange.



> So no the tail you think Sasuke damaged is not used against PS and was not cut by PS sword


And what you previously posted expresses that? Look, even another poster on YOUR SIDE, has conceded to idea that Sasuke broke of one of Naruto's tail with his sword. I don't see why this is such a big deal to you considering; the counter Naruto "has seven more tails to utilize" is a sufficient counter to my point. I don't understand why this is such a big deal to you considering the feat you are is using is minute, at best. What did you say Naruto was supposed to follow up with a TBB? A TBB was tanked by Madara's V4 Susano'o which is not only weaker than a Sage of Six patch chakara Sasuke, but from a 100% Kurama.

I'm giving you the floor to expand into new arguments using the anime, as I'm tired of going back and fourth with you over a tactic that seems almost comical against Sasuke.

Argument is PS cutting KA tail which it did not.

[QUOTE[Lol, waste most of his Reserves?[/QUOTE]
What in the blue hell are you referring too. Without more effort of clearly defining what point you are responding to, you are wasting both of our time. If you aren't willing to put in the work to compose at least a comprehensible response don't bother.



> Here another example of you ignorance.


Or a better example of your inability to quote, my friend.



> With AA Naruto gets chakra from all over planet, he does not waste chakra.


AA requires to churn out BSM clones first and foremost.(A chakara workload for even Naruto standards)
Gather chakara from Kurama, Naruto's battery by the way, who reserves are also taxed even when gathering outside chakara, as Naruto expunge his chakara, Kurama's chakara, and the remnants of the left over chakara from the Bijus.(Please read the manga)

AA Naruto only has one feat. One maneuver, one attack that potentially end the battle if it lands, and not only is this attack not a precise maneuver. It is another nuke, that is capable of damaging Naruto as well if he caught in the crossfire. Meanwhile Sasuke has S/T tech/the ability to absorb ninjutsu. Yeah another example of my ignorance, right? Rather another example of your desperation




> Yes petra which was so useful against Momoshiki : nope Sasuke was camping inside Susanoo.


In the movie, anime or manga? Because all have different interpretation of that fight.

And if I recall correctly Sasuke was using Susano'o to not only protect Baruto, but give him ability to fly.(At least in the movie) Susano'o has showcased to be a Uchiha with access to both main form of defense as it has the ability shield from physical and chakara based assaults.

The anime features him taking an entirely different approach; I haven't watched it all in it's entirety, but I do recall only engaging Momoshiki in kenjutsu, while sprinkling bits of ninjutsu and even more Kenjutsu here and there.

In the manga, the fight features him utilizing the same kenjutsu against Momoshiki only this time with no hardly no jutsu bar the Ameno usage that assisted in ending the fight.

So either way your point fails. Preta Path is an option, but it has always served as a last resort when Susano'o is an option. And with Sasuke's ability to utilize Ameno to simply switch places with a jutsu outright it's even less on the priority list.
Like it nor not Sasuke does have access to preta. Denying him such because he sparingly utilize it is the same of me denying Naruto the ability to utilize AA because he's only performed it once. He's only even performed the set up once.




> Ameno which Momoshiki can react to and Naruto can fight Momo 1 on 1 in Taijutsu.


Momoshiki didn't react to Ameno, the example on  of Ameno being used was against Momoshiki. Ameno was also utilized in defeat of Momoshiki, so how does your point hold any merit.

Ameno isn't solely an attack jutsu, it's a supplementary jutsu which grants it's user the ability to do a number of things. And if I recall correctly Momo, even fused, wasn't the best taijutsu/kenjutsu fighter. Kinshiki was the one that mostly relied on close quarters combat, and we it was Sasuke who not only opted to beat him one on one, but assisted in defeating him using close quarter combat.



> S/T travel which helps Sasuke to escape Naruto.


If he is faced with something such as the attack, which still doesn't have a name by the way Naruto forums, utilized to counter Sasuke's Indra's arrow. He may or may not need it, but it's an option. 



> And i'm not desperate, you're the one who is delusional with your non-sense arguments, just like that PrimeRichard guy and his fanfiction above, You are hard countering nothing.


You are, you are, you are. Hence is why you opted to utilize feats from the Anime, which I'm allowing.
Being delusional, A? Says the person misinterpreting panel, unwilling to apply double standards in their argument(Why didn't Sasuke use Preta against Momoshiki, when Naruto didn't utilize AA against no one in the last or Baruto), says the person that is clearly exhausted by this ass whooping being handed to them.

I can't speak for PrimeRichard, as I haven't quite settled down to read other Pro Sasuke arguments. But from what I gather what he is suggesting does make sense. He brought in the ability to utilize CT, which is coreless, that I see no evidence to suggest it wouldn't counter at least Naruto's BSM clones.(Who were owned by BPS by the way)


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## IpHr0z3nI (Oct 30, 2018)

Prime Richard is right. Ameno doesn't need an object to switch with it's just switching allows he to increase the distance as cited by .


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Oct 30, 2018)

Sasuke's Speed is greatly underestimated. His tool for turning this match around. Blitzed BM Minato. Blocked Obito. He'd gain the upperhand in a battle of firepower (that Naruto is good at.) with his speed. Overlooked factor in a vast majority of fights.


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## Streak (Oct 31, 2018)

I'll be the honest one and admit that there are a plethora of scenarios where both can win.
Sasuke Ameblitzing and and slicing his head off before he enters RKCM, Naruto playing the long game and capitalising on his massive energy reserves until Sasuke exhausted, Sasuke capitlising on hax right off the bat, Naruto capitalising on his offensive versatility and potency etc.
Just bringing any one particular scenario as a justification for either winning isn't really a legit reason. There's far too much to compute and take into acvount to judge how it goes imo.


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## Buuhan (Oct 31, 2018)

Streak said:


> I'll be the honest one and admit that there are a plethora of scenarios where both can win.
> Sasuke Ameblitzing and and slicing his head off before he enters RKCM,


Base Naruto was parrying blows from Momoshiki. Sasuke isn't doing that to him. 


> Naruto playing the long game and capitalising on his massive energy reserves until Sasuke exhausted, Sasuke capitlising on hax right off the bat, Naruto capitalising on his offensive versatility and potency.


A fight between the two ends in a dead on draw unless you factor in Narutos AA in which case he wins(you should since its part of his moveset).


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## Streak (Oct 31, 2018)

Buuhan said:


> Base Naruto was parrying blows from Momoshiki. Sasuke isn't doing that to him.


How does parrying blows from Momo prove he can tank a chidori in base?


Buuhan said:


> A fight between the two ends in a dead on draw unless you factor in Narutos


I can agree.


Buuhan said:


> in which case he wins(you should since its part of his moveset).


Yes but it's definitely not in-character.


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## Buuhan (Oct 31, 2018)

Streak said:


> How does parrying blows from Momo prove he can tank a chidori in base?


Why in the world is he tanking base chidori? He can literally just divert it and force Sasuke into CQC. I'm also trying to understand why naruto is in base to start. He can enter RSM near instantly. 




> Yes but it's definitely not in-character.


How so? He had two chances to use the ability:

He uses it against Sasuke because he is forced to counter Indras arrow. Before this he had no intention to fight offensively against him. 
Using it against Momo would've been pointless considering he would've just absorbed any chakra attacks Naruto could've thrown at him in that form.
Nothing points towards it being OOC. He's not gonna start with it, but if push comes to shove he has no issues using it.


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## Streak (Oct 31, 2018)

Buuhan said:


> Why in the world is he tanking base chidori? He can literally just divert it and force Sasuke into CQC.


What do you mean by 'divert it?'


Buuhan said:


> I'm also trying to understand why naruto is in base to start.


I said it was a possible scenario.


Buuhan said:


> He can enter RSM near instantly.


Sasuke can kill him faster.


Buuhan said:


> He uses it against Sasuke because he is forced to counter Indras arrow.


Exactly, he might not have used it had Sasuke not used the bijuu's power.


Buuhan said:


> Before this he had no intention to fight offensively against him.


Yes, but that doesn't make really make it very in-character.


Buuhan said:


> Using it against Momo would've been pointless considering he would've just absorbed any chakra attacks Naruto could've thrown at him in that form.


He could have fought physically as well. Nothing really limits him to throwing chakra attacks. He would oneshotted Momoshiki in that form.


Buuhan said:


> Nothing points towards it being OOC. He's not gonna start with it, but if push comes to shove he has no issues using it.


The shove would have to be a real one. Like seriously. A slight power/hax gap isn't going to get him to use that trump card. It would have to be just as overwhelming as it was when he did use it.


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## Buuhan (Oct 31, 2018)

Streak said:


> What do you mean by 'divert it?'


 Nothing about what i said is complicated. It literally means he would force the attack away from himself as opposed to trying to tank it. 



> I said it was a possible scenario.


 An unlikely one



> Sasuke can kill him faster.


 Yeah because thats what happened at VOTE 2. 



> Exactly, he might not have used it had Sasuke not used the bijuu's power.


 Thats purely because he was fighting defensively not outright trying to kill Sasuke.



> Yes, but that doesn't make really make it very in-character.


 He used it against Sasuke and it would've been useless against Momo so he didn't. Its part of his arsenal that he can summon at a moments notice. If anybody is lacking evidence its you with the claim that its OOC.



> He could have fought physically as well. Nothing really limits him to throwing chakra attacks. He would oneshotted Momoshiki in that form.


Hitting a smaller target with that large a construct isn't guaranteed.



> The shove would have to be a real one. Like seriously. A slight power/hax gap isn't going to get him to use that trump card. It would have to be just as overwhelming as it was when he did use it.


Facing Sasuke who is his dead equal somehow isn't a shove? If its a fight to the death and Naruto knows how evenly matched they are why in the world wouldn't he opt for it?

This entire debate started because you seemingly think Sasuke has enough speed to somehow end Naruto in the course of a few seconds if he isn't in RSM. Thats an extremely flawed interpretation especially when the manga paints a completely different picture.


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## Streak (Oct 31, 2018)

Buuhan said:


> Nothing about what i said is complicated. It literally means he would force the attack away from himself as opposed to trying to tank it.


How would he do that in base, where he isn't strong enough nor fast enough?


Buuhan said:


> An unlikely one


Well, that depends.


Buuhan said:


> Yeah because thats what happened at VOTE 2.


That was PIS.


Buuhan said:


> Thats purely because he was fighting defensively not outright trying to kill Sasuke.


'Purely', is un substantiated. It could have also been because it isn't IC.


Buuhan said:


> Hitting a smaller target with that large a construct isn't guarant


That's a weak argument. It would be bigger but it would be massively faster and is far better than hetting punked around and facing a losing battle.


Buuhan said:


> Facing Sasuke who is his dead equal somehow isn't a shove?


Read what I said:


Streak said:


> A slight power/hax gap isn't going to get him to use that trump card. It would have to be just as overwhelming as it was when he did use it.


It would have to be as big a push as he recieved when Sasuke entered bijuu Susanoo avatar.


Buuhan said:


> This entire debate started because you seemingly think Sasuke has enough speed to somehow end Naruto in the course of a few seconds if he isn't in RSM.


Considering Naruto is his equal in RKCM, and RKCM is a massive boost for Naruto, it is quite accurate. And I reiterate; it's one possible scenario, nowhere did I say it would happen.


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## The Great One (Oct 31, 2018)

Streak said:


> How would he do that in base, where he isn't strong enough nor fast enough?
> 
> Well, that depends.
> 
> ...


Because he did that?

Base Naruto fighting fused momoshiki.




Base Naruto has feats of reacting someone who low diffed Sasuke with ameno.



Sasuke is cutting nothing with Ameno.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Marvel (Oct 31, 2018)

Cadis Etrama Di Pumpkin Rai said:


> No argument so I guess the only thing left is to attack the poster? ok



Saskue has Hagaromo chakra and you still don't beleive his Kage Bunshins can manifest susanoo when someone with way less chakra did. I can't keep arguing with people like this


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## Rai (Oct 31, 2018)

Blood Gifter said:


> Saskue has Hagaromo chakra and you still don't beleive his Kage Bunshins can manifest susanoo when someone with way less chakra did. I can't keep arguing with people like this



We're talking about Perfect Susano'o not other Susano'o levels and you know that.

You don't have anything so you goes after the poster, try change what we were talking and neg.

PD: so this will be my last reply


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## Buuhan (Oct 31, 2018)

Streak said:


> How would he do that in base, where he isn't strong enough nor fast enough?


Scans have already been shown to you. Thanks @Batzzaro29 



> Well, that depends.


 Unless you specifically force naruto to stay in base for a specific period of time its not. 



> That was PIS.


 Thats an excuse because nothing substantiates your point. 



> 'Purely', is un substantiated. It could have also been because it isn't IC.


No its not lol. Sasuke even  that Naruto is losing and would die because of that very fact. 



> That's a weak argument. It would be bigger but it would be massively faster and is far better than hetting punked around and facing a losing battle.


He didn't need AA to beat Momo lol. A base Odama Rasengan sufficed towards the end. 



> Read what I said:


I did, but you're just running from the point now



> It would have to be as big a push as he recieved when Sasuke entered bijuu Susanoo avatar.


 That was a fight where he only countered when he absolutely needed to due to him not going all out with KI. 



> Considering Naruto is his equal in RKCM, and RKCM is a massive boost for Naruto, it is quite accurate. And I reiterate; it's one possible scenario, nowhere did I say it would happen.


Its RSM as in _Rikudo Sage Mode_, not RKCM. By saying its a possible scenario you have to accept that _you_ think there is a chance it can happen. There is no chance. Sasuke is not no diffing Naruto with a freaking Ameno blitz lol.


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## Streak (Nov 1, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Because he did that?
> 
> Base Naruto fighting fused momoshiki.
> 
> ...


Sasuke was being a decoy:

To use that one instance to claim that he's slower than base Naruto is comical. He clowned Momo just as good as RKCM Naruto did;


Which shows he can be as fast as RKCM Naruto if he wanted.


Buuhan said:


> Scans have already been shown to you.


Addressed.


Buuhan said:


> Unless you specifically force naruto to stay in base for a specific period of time its not.


Considering the fact that he did exactly that in VoTE2, it is.


Buuhan said:


> Thats an excuse because nothing substantiates your point.


Calling it an excuse is an excuse in and of itself. Not only does the fact that this xan be used to counter every claim of PIS ever made. It blatantly contradicts all the times he did attempt to oneshot his opponent before they reached their strongest/when they were vulnerable/ or when they were off-guard, such instances include against alive Madara, Juudara, muktiple times against Kaguya and against Momo.


Buuhan said:


> No its not lol. Sasuke even  that Naruto is losing and would die because of that very fact.


That doesn't prove or offer any testimony against it not being IC.


Buuhan said:


> He didn't need AA to beat Momo lol. A base Odama Rasengan sufficed towards the end.


Naruto disagrees:




Buuhan said:


> I did, but you're just running from the point now


What have I not head-on addressed?


Buuhan said:


> That was a fight where he only countered when he absolutely needed to due to him not going all out with KI.


Doesn't prove that he would use it if he did have KI.


Buuhan said:


> Its RSM as in _Rikudo Sage Mode_, not RKCM.


I personally refer to it as RKCM.


Buuhan said:


> By saying its a possible scenario you have to accept that _you_ think there is a chance it can happen.


No shit, captain Obvious.


Buuhan said:


> There is no chance.


A wise man once said:


Buuhan said:


> By saying its a *not* possible scenario you have to accept that _you_ think there is *no* chance it can happen.


----------



## Buuhan (Nov 1, 2018)

Streak said:


> Sasuke was being a decoy:
> 
> To use that one instance to claim that he's slower than base Naruto is comical. He clowned Momo just as good as RKCM Naruto did;
> 
> ...


Lmao I never claimed he was slower now did I. Im saying he can enter RSM way before Sasuke even gets near him.



> Addressed.


With nothing honestly


> Considering the fact that he did exactly that in VoTE2, it is.


Once again he was fighting defensively. Only when Sasuke ramped it up did he decide to enter RSM and apply his cloak. You keep ignoring that key piece of information.


> Calling it an excuse is an excuse in and of itself. Not only does the fact that this xan be used to counter every claim of PIS ever made. It blatantly contradicts all the times he did attempt to oneshot his opponent before they reached their strongest/when they were vulnerable/ or when they were off-guard, such instances include against alive Madara, Juudara, muktiple times against Kaguya and against Momo.




He was just learning to use RSM against Madara. He didn't even know he could fly lol.
AA was all, but useless against Kaguya considering they needed seals to end her not firepower.
He probably thought he didn't need it against the Momo considering he had Sasuke there with him. This point is reinforced later on when he lets Boruto of all people deal with finishing blow with a _base Odama Rasengan_.



> That doesn't prove or offer any testimony against it not being IC.


Nah this scan was here to prove to you that Naruto was fighting OOC and defensively against Sasuke. It seems you're getting points mixed up now lol.


> Naruto disagrees:


 I can't see your links


> What have I not head-on addressed?


Your trying to use PIS as a foothold when it has no place in VOTE 2.


> Doesn't prove that he would use it if he did have KI.


Oh so Sasuke with KI is gonna use an Ameno blitz, but a tech thats part of Narutos arsenal is OOC all of a sudden? Yeah save me the shit lol


> I personally refer to it as RKCM.


Thats great on a personal level, but its RSM.


> No shit, captain Obvious.


Lemme humble your ass.


Streak said:


> Considering Naruto is his equal in RKCM, and RKCM is a massive boost for Naruto, it is quite accurate. And I reiterate;* it's one possible scenario,* nowhere did I say it would happen.


See that shit right there? If you think its *possible *then you have to accept that* you think* theres a chance it can happen no matter how small.



> A wise man once said:


Which is exactly what i've been doing.


----------



## Streak (Nov 1, 2018)

@Buuhan What site does NF accept scans from? I've tried several, but none seem to be working.


----------



## The Great One (Nov 1, 2018)

Streak said:


> Sasuke was being a decoy:
> 
> To use that one instance to claim that he's slower than base Naruto is comical. He clowned Momo just as good as RKCM Naruto did;
> 
> ...


Nope, Sasuke got blitzed there.

He can barely fight Kinshiki in cqc.




And Base Naruto was taking on fused Momoshiki.

About Sasuke clowning Momoshiki.





Only happened because Naruto beating of Momoshiki gave Sasuke a free hit.

Which does not show Sasuke fast as RSM,  which he is not.


----------



## Streak (Nov 1, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Nope, Sasuke got blitzed there.


You know this despite Momo confirming him to be a decoy because?


Batzzaro29 said:


> He can barely fight Kinshiki in cqc.


While severely nerfed due to dimensional travelling yes.


Batzzaro29 said:


> About Sasuke "clowning" Momo, only happened because Naruto beating of Momoshiki gave Sasuke a free hit.


That literally makes no sense, Momoshiki quite explicitly saw Sasuke before the strike landed, which wouldn't have happened if Sasuke was fodder like you claimed he was.


----------



## Buuhan (Nov 1, 2018)

Streak said:


> @Buuhan What site does NF accept scans from? I've tried several, but none seem to be working.


Personally I go to Manga reader.net and i save the scans. Then I upload them to imgur so they never go away. Don't paste em(directly from manga reader) otherwise itll show up as a blocked domain. Imgur makes it easy although others use different methods.


----------



## The Great One (Nov 1, 2018)

Streak said:


> You know this despite Momo confirming him to be a decoy because?
> 
> While severely nerfed due to dimensional travelling yes.
> 
> That literally makes no sense, Momoshiki quite explicitly saw Sasuke before the strike landed, which wouldn't have happened if Sasuke was fodder like you claimed he was.


Dimensional travelling does not lower his physical parameters, his eyes may be weaker but physically he just as fast.

Because Sasuke could not even beat Kinshiki physically and Naruto was taking on fused Momoshiki in base, and he was still unable to beat Kinshiki after week of rest in Konoha.

It does not matter Momo confirming Sasuke acting as decoy when.

- Sasuke being unable to beat Kinshiki twice.
- Base Naruto being able to keep up with Fused Momoshiki.

Also if Sasuke was fast and strong as RSM Naruto then he would've beaten Momoshiki himself like this. 

Not acting as a decoy

Also Sasuke being  acting as decoy does not mean he was holding himself back when he was trying to stab Momoshiki from behind.

Also no Momo was still being effected by Naruto's kick and its momentum which is why he couldn't dodge Sasuke.


----------



## Streak (Nov 1, 2018)

Buuhan said:


> Personally I go to Manga reader.net and i save the scans. Then I upload them to imgur so they never go away. Don't paste em(directly from manga reader) otherwise itll show up as a blocked domain. Imgur makes it easy although others use different methods.


Thanks.


Batzzaro29 said:


> Dimensional travelling does not lower his physical parameters, his eyes may be weaker but physically he just as fast.


If this were true, he would have lol blitzed Naruto after their double rasenshuriken/Indra arrow clash, when they were both on the ground. But he didn't. Which irrefutably implies that his physical stats is directly connected to his chakra reserves. Which is also consistent with the fact that his physical prowess came purely from rikudo chakra that Hago granted him.


Batzzaro29 said:


> Because Sasuke could not even beat Kinshiki physically and Naruto was taking on fused Momoshiki in base, and he was still unable to beat Kinshiki after week of rest in Konoha.


He was holding Sarada, you forget. Neither did he decide to go all out there because of the collateral damage the village might take due to their fight.


Batzzaro29 said:


> Also if Sasuke was fast and strong as RSM Naruto then he would've beaten Momoshiki himself like this.


He literally did.


Batzzaro29 said:


> Also no Momo was still being effected by Naruto's kick and its momentum which is why he couldn't dodge Sasuke.


You realise Momoshiki can fly right? and has that hair technique that fodderised Gaara?


----------



## The Great One (Nov 1, 2018)

Streak said:


> Thanks.
> 
> If this were true, he would have lol blitzed Naruto after their double rasenshuriken/Indra arrow clash, when they were both on the ground. But he didn't. Which irrefutably implies that his physical stats is directly connected to his chakra reserves. Which is also consistent with the fact that his physical prowess came purely from rikudo chakra that Hago granted him.
> 
> ...


Or maybe because Base Naruto = Sasuke in stats?


----------



## Streak (Nov 1, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Or maybe because Base Naruto = Sasuke in stats?


Something that is canonically, by feats and potrayal, absolute BS?


----------



## The Great One (Nov 1, 2018)

Streak said:


> Something that is canonically, by feats and potrayal, absolute BS?


Canonically Sasuke can't fight against Kinshiki even when his eye power is restored. 

Canonically Base Naruto can keep up with fused momoshiki. 

So i don't know which canon are you talking about.


----------



## Streak (Nov 1, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Canonically Sasuke can't fight against Kinshiki even when his eye power is restored.


I already adressed this:


Streak said:


> He was holding Sarada, you forget. Neither did he decide to go all out there because of the collateral damage the village might take due to their fight.


The only thing he did was dodge.


Batzzaro29 said:


> Canonically Base Naruto can keep up with fused momoshiki.


Barely.


----------



## Raniero (Nov 1, 2018)

If you ask Kishimoto, he'll say they'll tie because they're true equals. 

So it's a draw.


----------



## The Great One (Nov 1, 2018)

Streak said:


> I already adressed this:
> 
> The only thing he did was dodge.
> 
> Barely.


Do you realise Sasuke fought KinshiKi twice right?

First time when you claimed his eyes was weakened.

Second time when Sasuke and Kages went to rescue Naruto, and Sasuke was still unable to beat Kinshiki one on one.


 so you addressed nothing.

And that same guy low diffed Sasuke with his elbow who Base Naruto was keeping up with barely.


----------



## Trojan (Nov 1, 2018)

Raniero said:


> If you ask Kishimoto, he'll say they'll tie because they're true equals.
> 
> So it's a draw.


That's likely what he is going to say indeed. However, in order for them to tie, there are stuff that will need to happen.
Which, for example, what he did in the manga like given ALL 9 Bijuus to Sasuke and having Naruto holding back and exhausted.

That or adding some nerfs, PIS, CIS and plot shield to the fight.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Nov 1, 2018)

Hussain said:


> That's likely what he is going to say indeed. However, in order for them to tie, there are stuff that will need to happen.
> Which, for example, what he did in the manga like given ALL 9 Bijuus to Sasuke and having Naruto holding back and exhausted.
> 
> That or adding some nerfs, PIS, CIS and plot shield to the fight.


He stated that in data book 4. Which came out after the series was over.


----------



## Streak (Nov 1, 2018)

Buuhan said:


> Lmao I never claimed he was slower now did I.


Okay then


Buuhan said:


> Im saying he can enter RSM way before Sasuke even gets near him.


Which implies you think base Naruto can not only react to him but think as well which is BS. Since only RKCM Naruto is Sasuke's equal.


Buuhan said:


> With nothing honestly


Well, considering the scan issue I was having, I suppose this is accurate.


Buuhan said:


> Once again he was fighting defensively. Only when Sasuke ramped it up did he decide to enter RSM and apply his cloak. You keep ignoring that key piece of information.


Except fighting defensively does not entail a need to stay in base? You do realise Naruto could have fought defensively while staying in RKCM from the very start like he did most of the fight? He did the same thing with Momo


Buuhan said:


> He was just learning to use RSM against Madara. He didn't even know he could fly lol.
> 
> AA was all, but useless against Kaguya considering they needed seals to end her not firepower.
> 
> He probably thought he didn't need it against the Momo considering he had Sasuke there with him. This point is reinforced later on when he lets Boruto of all people deal with finishing blow with a _base Odama Rasengan_.


You've completely misunderstood my point. This para:


Streak said:


> Calling it an excuse is an excuse in and of itself. Not only does the fact that this xan be used to counter every claim of PIS ever made. It blatantly contradicts all the times he did attempt to oneshot his opponent before they reached their strongest/when they were vulnerable/ or when they were off-guard, such instances include against alive Madara, Juudara, muktiple times against Kaguya and against Momo.


was in reference to Sasuke. It was to prove that it is highly IC for Sasuke to utilise his opponent's vulnerability against them, and that is was PIS as to why didn't do it against Naruto despite having like a million chances and KI


Buuhan said:


> I can't see your links


Basically the few scans that show Kurama avatar getting overwhelmed by the golem, which proves that Naruto would have needed AA to beat it.


Buuhan said:


> Your trying to use PIS as a foothold when it has no place in VOTE


Not only is there plenty of evidence against that latter half(which I have already provided), but this doesn't amount to me escaping from your points, whatsoever.


Buuhan said:


> Oh so Sasuke with KI is gonna use an Ameno blitz, but a tech thats part of Narutos arsenal is OOC all of a sudden?


Unless you're insinuating that being a part of Naruto's arsenal implies that it is IC, then yes, that is precisely so.


Buuhan said:


> Thats great on a personal level, but its RSM.


Cool.


Buuhan said:


> See that shit right there? If you think its *possible *then you have to accept that* you think* theres a chance it can happen no matter how small.


Again;


Streak said:


> No shit, captain Obvious.


Nowhere have I denied this, why bother bringing it up? for a second time?


----------



## Streak (Nov 1, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Do you realise Sasuke fought KinshiKi twice right?


Thrice actually. Once in the ice dimension, once in Konoha and in the final fight again.


Batzzaro29 said:


> First time when you claimed his eyes was weakened.


As well as the final fight as well. So the first and the third time.


Batzzaro29 said:


> Second time when Sasuke and Kages went to rescue Naruto, and Sasuke was still unable to beat Kinshiki one on one.


You do realise he pushed his chakra to the limits there as well?


Batzzaro29 said:


> And that same guy low diffed Sasuke with his elbow who Base Naruto was keeping up with barely.


That was because Sasuke was a decoy, just meant to momentarily get Momo's attention. Momo confirms this as well.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Nov 1, 2018)

What I can't seem to understand is why oh why is only one variation of the fight being used. The fight between kinshiki/Momoshiki has three variation, and all of them have reiterations of what happened. The movie features both Naruto and Sasuke having adequate success against fused Momoshiki in taijutsu.(Although Naruto never fought him in base) The anime, the one in which I follow because I don't read the manga, is allot more detailed than the manga and movie, and has Sasuke taking a more ninjutsu based approach. To say one is cannon over others is a bit jaded.


----------



## The Great One (Nov 1, 2018)

Streak said:


> Thrice actually. Once in the ice dimension, once in Konoha and in the final fight again.
> 
> As well as the final fight as well. So the first and the third time.
> 
> ...


No, Kinshiki overwhelmed Sasuke instantly second time they fought. 

So Momoshiki confirming Sasuke being a decoy somehow makes him stronger? It does not. 

Sasuke is someone who can't compete physically against Kinshiki wether he was a decoy or not. 

And Base Naruto is someone who can keep up with Fused Momoshiki.


----------



## Buuhan (Nov 1, 2018)

Streak said:


> Which implies you think base Naruto can not only react to him but think as well which is BS. Since only RKCM Naruto is Sasuke's equal.


 Fused Momoshiki at the very _least _is a physical equal to Rinnegan Sasuke.  as Momo tried to hit him mid combat. So this thing about Sasuke somehow being able to kill Naruto before he enters his mode doesn't work.



> Well, considering the scan issue I was having, I suppose this is accurate.


 Then just tell me the chapter and page



> Except fighting defensively does not entail a need to stay in base? You do realise Naruto could have fought defensively while staying in RKCM from the very start like he did most of the fight? He did the same thing with Momo


Fighting defensively has many definitions lol and it applies perfectly to the VOTE 2 battle.



> You've completely misunderstood my point. This para:
> 
> was in reference to Sasuke. It was to prove that it is highly IC for Sasuke to utilise his opponent's vulnerability against them, and that is was PIS as to why didn't do it against Naruto despite having like a million chances and KI


He never had a million chances lol. He can't blitz base Naruto before he turns RSM on and base Naruto has shown reactions necessary to at the very least parry attacks. You just can't believe whats evident in-front of you so you assume that Sasuke didn't do it because of, "PIS."



> Basically the few scans that show Kurama avatar getting overwhelmed by the golem, which proves that Naruto would have needed AA to beat it.


 Then Sasuke wakes up and lends his power making this point null lol. Alone Naruto would've probably opted for the stronger form, but he felt that together he and Sasuke had it in the bag lol. Again nothing substantiates your point.



> Not only is there plenty of evidence against that latter half(which I have already provided), but this doesn't amount to me escaping from your points, whatsoever.


 There is 0 evidence for your argument of PIS as I've proved in this very post. So using that as a crutch to prove multiple points instead of arguing clear feats i've thrown your way is running.



> Unless you're insinuating that being a part of Naruto's arsenal implies that it is IC, then yes, that is precisely so.


Nothing implies that he wouldn't use it against Sasuke in a serious fight to the death where both sides are willing to kill.





> Again;
> 
> Nowhere have I denied this, why bother bringing it up? for a second time?





Streak said:


> Considering Naruto is his equal in RKCM, and RKCM is a massive boost for Naruto, it is quite accurate. And I reiterate; it's one possible scenario, nowhere did I say it would happen.



See the line in red? It contradicts the line in blue. Your arguing in this very thread that its possible for Sasuke to blitz base Naruto with Amentojikara. So no stay humbled lol.


----------



## Trojan (Nov 1, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> He stated that in data book 4. Which came out after the series was over.


Actually, Kishi does not write the databooks. So, it's not exactly him who stated that. 

And the databook was released before the manga was over actually. 
it covers up until chapter 691 or something like that...

Naruto Vs Sasuke was not included in the databook...


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Nov 1, 2018)

Hussain said:


> Actually, Kishi does not write the databooks. So, it's not exactly him who stated that.
> 
> And the databook was released before the manga was over actually.
> it covers up until chapter 691 or something like that...
> ...


Kishi doesn't exactly write Baruto is it canon?
And if it takes place before VOE2 that's even better. Because that means they were intended to be equals despite the details of the fight.


----------



## Trojan (Nov 1, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Kishi doesn't exactly write Baruto is it canon?
> And if it takes place before VOE2 that's even better. Because that means they were intended to be equals despite the details of the fight.



1- I did not say you can't take the Databook as a proof. I just told you that he is not the one who wrote it. Simple as that. 
2- Had they been equal Sasuke wouldn't have needed all 9 Bijuus. It's not that hard.

Are you saying that if we were to consider
Naruto = 50 
Sasuke = 50

1tail = 1
2tails = 2
3tails = 3
4tails = 4
5tails = 5
6tails = 6
7tails = 7
8tails = 8
9tails = 9

Total = 45

So, Sasuke + Bijuus = 50 + 45 = 95

and according to you
50  = 95 I.E Naruto = Sasuke?

please, it's a simple math and simple logic. Why it's so hard for Sasuke's fans to comprehend it?


----------



## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Nov 1, 2018)

They're portrayed as equals outside of Ashura Avatar.


----------



## Kagutsutchi (Nov 1, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> In raw power, maybe. But Sasuke has always made up for it in the form of Hax…..


Hax that was countered by naruto's pure physicals and bijuu cloak.




> Is that because incapable or is simply out of choice. They don't need to be able to replicate Sasuke in raw power. They just need to be able to utilize some of his jutsu. Naruto almost overwhelmed Sasuke with clones thrice, and two of those times were in base.(At least in the anime)


In character sasuke doesn't use clones in battle. We can't just say he will use clones now to fight when he has never done so, so stop saying with this sasuke can use clones to fight.

I don't use Asura avatar(at least, not consciously) as an argument willy nilly, Naruto only used that shit once, just like sasuke used the clone shit once as well. Making things worse, Naruto was the only one to use his jutsu *IN COMBAT*. So if you wanna go with AA has few feats, I can go with Sasuclones have no feats.




> For now just post the chapter and the panel; not that you need to, as I can kind of see where you are going with this.


Chapter 695 page 14, sasuke tells naruto he'll die if he keeps on slacking off.
Chapter 696 page 6, naruto tells sasuke he's not trying to kill him
Chapter 696 page 16, sasuke tells naruto that he's finally gotten serious with the battle.



> Did Naruto really not try to kill Sasuke the entire fight?


Yes.



> In the anime he only had a chance to best Sasuke once, and even that is questionable because it was a mere TBB, which even Madara's V4 blocked.(Chapter 620 page 16 on manga viewer) And that was from a full powered Kurama


I'm not using the anime.





> And neither does Adult Naruto hardly.


You're a fucking liar. In all of adult naruto's fights he uses clones, even in SPSM. Against toneri, uses clones, against shin, he uses clones, against momoshiki in the stadium, he uses clones. He doesn't use clones in momoshiki's planet because sasuke tells him not to.



> Especially in his BSM state.


Shut the fuck up. What is this, the naruto fanfiction battledome? What was he using against toneri, Genjutsu, What about the chunin exams stadium to protect the civilians? Whenever naruto fights, he uses clones all the time except when he has a canon reason not to.



> I would rather have you disputed Sasuke's clones were incapable of producing a PS, than implicating out right that he does not use him; therefore he can not have them. This is almost pure speculation from both sides. Acting out of character something we have  to do to even generate a discussion.


Cut the BS with this it's speculation, therefore I can have characters act OOC. Sasuke only used the shadow clone jutsu to make a point to boruto that children don't inherit their parent's specialty. So please stop embarrassing yourself.





> Holding back, A? Can't the same be true for both characters at that point. It's not as if Sasuke was using all of his option at that point even with his normal Susano'o, lol. The quote was simply me showcasing to you that Naruto's tails were hardly a threat.


Why don't you show me a panel that says that sasukee was holding back? From the way sasuke and naruto were talking, it's clear sasuke was trying to kill naruto from the onset of the fight, while naruto held back for most of it.



> Using clones with BSM is an anomaly.(Only Once) He hasn't utilize clones like that against Toneri or as an Adult against Momoshiki; two opponents in which were arguably as strong if not stronger than VOE2 Sasuke.


Again, you're a fucking liar or you have amnesia. He produced SPSM(BSM enhanced) clones against Madara, kaguya, sasuke, toneri, momoshiki(in the stadium). If you say he didn't make bsm clones against toneri, why don't you explain to all of us here what does people flying out of the split moon to fight toneri were? And don't say it wasn't BSM, the naruto wiki confirms it is BSM with rikudo traits. Again, using fanfiction to suit your own narrative



> Naruto isn't dumb. Or at least as dumb as you people are trying to make him to be. He isn't going to mindless spam high level clones in which would only serve as means to deplete his chakara. Especially given Sasuke has the ability to absorb chakara; handle multiple opponents via CT, etc.


take your fanfiction outta this place. Sasuke only absorbed chakra once, why didn't he absorb chakra against momoshiki? Naruto has countered CT against nagato twice.





> And what isn't exactly canon?


Sasuke using clones in battle.



> Besides it's was already made canon that Naruto and Sasuke were equals. As expressed in the fourth databook.
> Besides it's already canon that Naruto and Sasuke are equals based on the results of VOE2.


So now we use statements? Wow.



> We are talking about solely the taijutsu portion. In which Naruto definitely was sick of Sasuke's BS by time their last exchange of "hands" were thrown. Naruto was trying to utilize a rasengan on a base Sasuke, which would have definitely killed him judging from their final exchange.


I'll give you this for now.



> No it's not. Kenjutsu and taijutsu have always been treated as two different things, and Naruto has yet to face Sasuke using kenjutsu.(He was stripped of his sword in the final bout) Now who failing to utilize canon.Now who is just basing their opinion of baseless speculation not supported by the manga. Sasuke doesn't utilize solely taijutsu in his kenjutsu exchanges, he uses several ninjutsu including raton, entons, Ameno, etc. etc. In the anime we even have he him utilize Bansho Tenin and enton to rid himself of Naruto's initial clones. You argue about canon, but you're not even using it.


I guess i was wrong. I thought that sword usage was part of taijutsu since the great ninja arts were nin gen and taijutsu and kenjutsu wasn't listed separately. So now, naruto will lose because kenjutsu? Interestingly stupid.



> If you expect to go at Naruto using solely taijutsu, when his Ace is clearly ninjutsu you are foolish. Especially with one arm.


If you expect sasuke to suddenly start using clones, naruto to not use clones, especially when that's not their fighting style, you're foolish. And in ninjustu naruto has sasuke beat.




> Just like against Naruto's clones right, oh wait?


Naruto is as durable as his clones now? What are you smoking?



> Naruto was stabbed by Sasuke's standard Kusanagi in the gaiden if while using Kurama Sage mode.


PIS.



> Sure it didn't phase him much, but then again the wound wasn't fatal to begin with. You are talking about Naruto engaging Sasuke in taijutsu without regards to what stage he is using, and it's been proven by canon that enton construct can kill him in base. And Sasuke alludes to it being effect against Kurama avatar Naruto if he had the ability to control his eye. This is the same enton ability that was able to slice through Kaguya's Ice dimension. You are foolish to dismiss the potential of enton againstT a TAIJUTSU FIGHTING Naruto.


Naruto still blocked enton with the basic kyuubi chakra cloak



> And what's up with these very brief one line answers. That don't seem to be back by anything, but your own baseless opinion. Put some effort into your post young blood, or you're not going to be taken seriously.


Says the guy using the argument of speculation to give sasuke skills he never uses




> And this is based on what? Naruto engaging Sasuke in taijutsu has led to nothing but either a loss or stalemate in the past. And that was Sasuke without his sword.


Except naruto is always holding back or they are fighting in base.





> That's not only out of character


In your personal fanfic.



> it's a waist of chakara.


First of all, it's waste. Secondly, Naruto now has little chakra reserves? the naruto whose strategy basically boils down to: Trick opponent using clones and feints, then bombard then with chakra spheres of destruction, Doesn't work, Add MORE POWER!!!!



> Sasuke can CT the clones as well as the original Naruto.


And naruto has escaped from CT, amnesiac. Twice.



> And at very least his clones are destroyed.


Because SPSM kurama avatars didn't tank indra susanno arrows which are mountain busters.



> It didn't take much for Sasuke BPS to deal with them at VOE2, and it was using bare bones taijutsu.


LIES. Sasuke never destroyed any clone, much less with "bare bones taijutsu". And sasuke doesn't have BPS so what is your fucking point?



> So Baruto isn't canon?


Apart from that one time he uses clones to prove a point to boruto, name one other canon instance sasuke uses clones...



 In battle. I'll wait. If you can do that miraculously, Prove to me that sasuke consistently uses clones as part of his arsenal.




> And Naruto doesn't utilize Kurama clones on the regular so it's a moot point as well.


i see the confusion now, I thought you meant human sized BSM.



> You want both characters acting in character......See the Momoshiki battle in which no clones from either were used.


Shut the fuck up. They didn't use clones because momoshiki could absorb ninjutsu dumbass. That fight was mainly a taijutsu battle with supplementary jutsu being used(Stop playing with grown folks, please).



> And you are foolish to believe that.


Yeah. Whatever you say dumbass.


----------



## Streak (Nov 1, 2018)

Buuhan said:


> Fused Momoshiki at the very _least _is a physical equal to Rinnegan Sasuke.


Because...?


Buuhan said:


> as Momo tried to hit him mid combat. So this thing about Sasuke somehow being able to kill Naruto before he enters his mode doesn't work.


If the earlier claim you made is substantiated in your reply, then I can concur.


Buuhan said:


> Then just tell me the chapter and


Unnecessary. I've gotten my point across.


Buuhan said:


> He never had a million chances lol.


Between the moment they reached VOTE and Naruto entering RKCM, he had a plethora of instances.


Buuhan said:


> Fighting defensively has many definitions


Pointlessly letting yourself be vulnerable, despite the fact that you could maintain the same defensiveness in superior forms, isn't one of them.


Buuhan said:


> You just can't believe whats evident in-front of you so you assume that Sasuke didn't do it because of, "PIS."


Considering I've given you a plethora of instances of him doing so, that fact that he didn't can only be associated to PIS. Unless you're naive enough to believe that IC or not, Kishi would ever allow the fight to end that way before it ever began?


Buuhan said:


> There is 0 evidence for your argument of PIS as I've proved in this very post.


You've done nothing other than scoff at it while simulataneously calling it an excuse, pretending as if some odd combination of the 2 is an actual counter, when it isn't. I've already proven that oneshotting his opponent when they're at their most vulnerable is highly IC for Sasuke:
_It blatantly contradicts all the times he did attempt to oneshot his opponent before they reached their strongest/when they were vulnerable/ or when they were off-guard, such instances include against alive Madara, Juudara, multiple times against Kaguya and against Momo._
The only exception being against Naruto, which can easily be associated with PIS. Something you're baselessly denying.


Buuhan said:


> Nothing implies that he wouldn't use it against Sasuke in a serious fight to the death where both sides are willing to kill.


Asides from the fact that he has only ever used it once in a highly desperate situation, and never even attempted make KA clones ever again much less AA.


Buuhan said:


> See the line in red? It contradicts the line in blue.


Not saying it would happen doesn't contradict it being a possibility.


----------



## Buuhan (Nov 1, 2018)

Streak said:


> Because...?


 The fact a weakercan  in cqc.



> If the earlier claim you made is substantiated in your reply, then I can concur.





> It is
> Unnecessary. I've gotten my point across.


 Sure



> Between the moment they reached VOTE and Naruto entering RKCM, he had a plethora of instances.


 You ever wondered why he didn't do it? Maybe its not PIS, but the fact it wouldn't have worked and Sasuke knew that. I get that you personally like to use that abbreviation, but you do know it leaves out the fact Naruto is using _sage mode_ with his six paths chakra?



> Pointlessly letting yourself be vulnerable, despite the fact that you could maintain the same defensiveness in superior forms, isn't one of them.


 This doesn't help your point at all. Naruto elevated his strength on a need to basis. Why waste chakra and strength knowingly?



> Considering I've given you a plethora of instances of him doing so, that fact that he didn't can only be associated to PIS. Unless you're naive enough to believe that IC or not, Kishi would ever allow the fight to end that way before it ever began?


You've given me 0 instances. Not only did you provide 0 evidence, but all the actual events are stacked against your claim. Unless you're going to provide a detailed set of feats that support Sasuke being even remotely capable of ameno blitzing base Naruto its not PIS. It is however your bad interpretation.



> You've done nothing other than scoff at it while simulataneously calling it an excuse, pretending as if some odd combination of the 2 is an actual counter, when it isn't. I've already proven that oneshotting his opponent when they're at their most vulnerable is highly IC for Sasuke:
> _It blatantly contradicts all the times he did attempt to oneshot his opponent before they reached their strongest/when they were vulnerable/ or when they were off-guard, such instances include against alive Madara, Juudara, multiple times against Kaguya and against Momo._
> The only exception being against Naruto, which can easily be associated with PIS. Something you're baselessly denying.


You don't provide evidence. All you did was call out a few names and say, well Sasuke tried it here so obviously its gonna work against base Naruto. You have no evidence to support your argument in VOTE 2 or during the Momo fight so you resort to making claims of PIS in order to try and make it seem like the feats should exist. You provide no logic as to why it is PIS and your still acting like you did.

Post some scans or concede. Its not like I haven't helped you out with a way to do so.




> Asides from the fact that he has only ever used it once in a highly desperate situation, and never even attempted make KA clones ever again much less AA.


There aren't enough instances of it being used for you to begin calling it OOC lol. During the fight with Sasuke he refused to deal any lethal blows, and only elevated his strength as needed to counter Sasuke.



> Not saying it would happen doesn't contradict it being a possibility.


Ahh changing the goal post now.

 Classic


----------



## PrimeRichard (Nov 1, 2018)

Kamalu said:


> Naruto still blocked enton with the basic kyuubi chakra cloak


The same enton that one shot ceberus when the overrated sage rasengan couldn't right.


----------



## Streak (Nov 1, 2018)

@Buuhan: I've lost interest. Agree to disagree.


----------



## Buuhan (Nov 1, 2018)

Streak said:


> @Buuhan: I've lost interest. Agree to disagree.


Or I countered the points well, but sure.


----------



## PrimeRichard (Nov 1, 2018)

@Batzzaro29 its funny how you keep bringing up only manga feats. In the anime which is also cannon momoshiki was overpowering base naruto and a shockwave from his punch destroy the shinju tree behind him. Naruto never reacted to momoshiki in base until he went SPSM. Also last i check sasuke use ameno something ure saying is slow to assist himself destroy momoshiki rinnegan, something SPSM naruto you claim is fast couldn't do.
In their final battle at vote sasuke and naruto were exchanging blows in base so if knowledge tells you that naruto can fight momoshiki in base then sasuke can also do the same.
Btw kinshiki is physically stronger than momoshiki.


----------



## Streak (Nov 1, 2018)

Buuhan said:


> Or I countered the points well, but sure.


Whatever floats your boat.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Nov 1, 2018)

Kamalu said:


> Hax that was countered by naruto's pure physicals and bijuu cloak.


So his Biju cloak counters his ability absorb chakara, mastery over ameno, his ability to jump dimensions? So what you are essentially saying is "Naruto pure physicals and bijuu cloak" counters Sasuke's better mastery over the Rinnegan?



> In character sasuke doesn't use clones in battle. We can't just say he will use clones now to fight when he has never done so, so stop saying with this sasuke can use clones to fight.


We can't just say Naruto will utilize RSM clones in this hypothetical battle either, as he's only utilize them a means to counter Sasuke intake of the tail beast chakara. You want to play stick what's in character, that goes both ways young man.



> I don't use Asura avatar(at least, not consciously) as an argument willy nilly, Naruto only used that shit once, just like sasuke used the clone shit once as well. Making things worse, Naruto was the only one to use his jutsu *IN COMBAT*. So if you wanna go with AA has few feats, I can go with Sasuclones have no feats.


IN COMBAT against a Sasuke's *BSM* so it's still situational Mr. Kamalu.
There is no *BSM* here...Hell they're may not be a PS vs. KA the way Baruto has them fighting.



> Chapter 695 page 14, sasuke tells naruto he'll die if he keeps on slacking off.
> Chapter 696 page 6, naruto tells sasuke he's not trying to kill him
> Chapter 696 page 16, sasuke tells naruto that he's finally gotten serious with the battle.


You waited so long to respond I forgot what exactly this has do with my post.




> Yes.


So that's why he attacked Sasuke why the were both half dead with a Rasengan? You do know that if not for Sakura, both of them would have died. So who not fighting to kill, again?




> I'm not using the anime.


Another poster was, so I wasn't to sure.






> You're a fucking liar. In all of adult naruto's fights he uses clones, even in SPSM. Against toneri, uses clones, against shin, he uses clones, against momoshiki in the stadium, he uses clones. He doesn't use clones in momoshiki's planet because sasuke tells him not to.


Liar, A? I believe I said hardly. Naruto's only had two fights as an adult. Against shin.....Against Momoshiki……

Against shin he barely fought, but still no clones.
Against Momoshiki he probably told not utilize clones because Momoshiki had the ability to absorb ninjutsu? But who knows, any who, we haven't see him utilize BSM clones and especially not the ones utilize to form AA. So my point still stand.



> Shut the fuck up. What is this, the naruto fanfiction battledome? What was he using against toneri, Genjutsu, What about the chunin exams stadium to protect the civilians? Whenever naruto fights, he uses clones all the time except when he has a canon reason not to.


(Someone's cranky)
Don't remember much from The Last, but I do know it takes place before the events of Baruto. I do know it's trivial because Sasuke was showcased with the ability to turn off his Rinnegan, which is something he has shown not capable of doing in Baruto. But once again, I don't mind you using it because it still doesn't dispute my point. We're talking about Adult Naruto and Adult Sasuke.




> Cut the BS with this it's speculation, therefore I can have characters act OOC. Sasuke only used the shadow clone jutsu to make a point to boruto that children don't inherit their parent's specialty. So please stop embarrassing yourself.


It's speculation my good man because we have yet to see Naruto, as an adult, generate same power output demonstrated at VOE2. Which is the underlining point between Adult Naruto and Adult Sasuke. I don't know if you know this, but they HAVEN'T FOUGHT AS ADULTS. Therefore WE HAVE NO IDEA what both sides might do. Sasuke might see fit to use clones since he is fighting with only one arm, and he is going against a person that frequently uses clones, as you put it. Embarrassing myself, A? Says the person getting all emotional over an argument. Learn to calm the fuck down when you post, and maybe we can talk about embarrassing oneself.



> Why don't you show me a panel that says that sasukee was holding back? From the way sasuke and naruto were talking, it's clear sasuke was trying to kill naruto from the onset of the fight, while naruto held back for most of it.


So Sasuke was utilizing the power of the tailed beast the start of the fight? He was operating at the apex of his power from jump. I think I said something along the lines of both characters wasn't using all of their options at a particular point. I don't need a statement for that, you just simply need to read the actual manga/watch the anime.





> Again, you're a fucking liar or you have amnesia. He produced SPSM(BSM enhanced) clones against Madara, kaguya, sasuke, toneri, momoshiki(in the stadium). If you say he didn't make bsm clones against toneri, why don't you explain to all of us here what does people flying out of the split moon to fight toneri were? And don't say it wasn't BSM, the naruto wiki confirms it is BSM with rikudo traits. Again, using fanfiction to suit your own narrative


Do you even know was BSM means? BIJU SAGE MODE...You know the one with the big ass avatar that looks like Kurama? He only utilized clones that could do that against BPS Sasuke. You need to take a chill pill, and at least know what the fuck you are talking about before talking all out of control.




> take your fanfiction outta this place. Sasuke only absorbed chakra once, why didn't he absorb chakra against momoshiki? Naruto has countered CT against nagato twice.


He only found out he could absorb chakara at the tail end of his fight with Naruto. He was hardly featured in The Last; only showing up to save the village with a chidori, and only exclusively fought Kinshiki who is a kenjutsu specialist. Against Momoshiki, IN THE MOVIE, the only reiteration I've watched entirely, he hardly utilized jutsu in which he can absorb. In the anime, in which I watched some, he utilized a large portion of ninjutsu. He didn't need to utilize the ability to absorb chakara because Ameno was simply a better option.



> Sasuke using clones in battle.


Do you even know what the battledome is young blood? We are usually allowed to utilize things characters have done. They are called feats. And since this a hypothetical battle between two characters that's never fought and hardly shown their full power as an ADULT. Some speculation needs to be made on both sides.

Who knows why Sasuke hasn't/doesn't utilize clones in battle. Maybe it was the lack of chakara reserves that was available to Naruto until now. Maybe is because he look down upon it, as he did say to Naruto at VOE2 when he utilize clones, "That jutsu is the symbol of your weakness. A jutsu that shows exactly how lonely you are."(Chapter 696 page 10) Who knows. The point is he used that them in Baruto, and since using clones against Momoshiki wasn't an option he opted not to use it then. Anyways Sasuke using clones is new feat, one of the few we got for Sasuke to begin with, don't expect us not to use it.




> So now we use statements? Wow.


Weren't you? What is...



> Chapter 695 page 14, sasuke tells naruto he'll die if he keeps on slacking off.
> Chapter 696 page 6, naruto tells sasuke he's not trying to kill him
> Chapter 696 page 16, sasuke tells naruto that he's finally gotten serious with the battle.​


Any who I was informed by another poster that the statements take place before the fight.(Which means they were considered as equals going into the fight, but that's another story)​


> I'll give you this for now.


Glad to see we agree on something.




> I guess i was wrong. I thought that sword usage was part of taijutsu since the great ninja arts were nin gen and taijutsu and kenjutsu wasn't listed separately. So now, naruto will lose because kenjutsu? Interestingly stupid.


It's close quarters combat, but no taijutsu, around here, usually refer to the exchange of fist. As far as Naruto losing...You said it not me.





> If you expect sasuke to suddenly start using clones, naruto to not use clones, especially when that's not their fighting style, you're foolish. And in ninjustu naruto has sasuke beat.


We don't know what Sasuke would do if he had to face Naruto again without the aid of the Biju....Hence is why this thread exist. Hence is why we have six pages of back fourth between the fandom.

Naruto has Sasuke beat in ninjutsu? Probably from a pure power perspective, but certainly not versatility. Sasuke has two elemental affinities including a Kekei Genkai in Kagutsuchi. Sasuke has numerous raiton variants, two sets of summons, and access to the Rinnegan/mangekyou. Naruto has rasengan, big rasengan, small rasengan, FRS, TBB, clones. We can literally list Naruto's ninjutsu on a note card, and still have room to spare. Naruto's ninjutsu all do the same thing.....BLOW SHIT UP. At least Sasuke has things that actually do something different. Some cut, some pierce, some burn, some maim, some paralyze etc. etc.

Even in their final jutsu exchange at VOE2 shows the difference in their ninjutsu skill. Sasuke created enton chidori and Naruto countered with bare bones rasengan. You are not even worth arguing with if you think Naruto has the edge when it comes to ninjutsu. Naruto has Kurama, and that has allowed to literally overwhelm his opponents with a rasengan/rasengan variant.



> Naruto is as durable as his clones now? What are you smoking?


Don't exactly know where you getting this from, but you missed me here.



> PIS.


It's not PIS that he was hurt by Sasuke's sword.




> Naruto still blocked enton with the basic kyuubi chakra cloak


That was Amaterasu. I was referring to Enton Kagutsuchi…..You know the one that cuts, stabs, maims like certain SWORD....The one that actually manage to break Kinshiki's axe in the movie at least.



> Says the guy using the argument of speculation to give sasuke skills he never uses


Says the guy who doesn't understand the purpose of that battledome. You can start posting recklessly when your balls drop.





> Except naruto is always holding back or they are fighting in base.


Except Naruto has hardly tried to engage Sasuke that way except in base. Against BPS, he tried with BSM and got wrecked. Sasuke probably should have stuck to what was working, but nope. He wanted to blow Naruto off the map with Indra's arrow and it was hard countered.



> In your personal fanfic.


And Naruto fighting Sasuke for the quote on quote KILL, is fanfic. But here we are discussing ways for Naruto to potentially kill Sasuke, right? You need to let your balls drop, and learn what the actual battle dome is before talking recklessly.




> First of all, it's waste. Secondly, Naruto now has little chakra reserves? the naruto whose strategy basically boils down to: Trick opponent using clones and feints, then bombard then with chakra spheres of destruction, Doesn't work, Add MORE POWER!!!!


It's not that Naruto has low reserves it's Naruto using that much chakara against someone who can hard counter it with someone who has, I don't know, CHAKARA ASORBTION. I believe the opening of thread specified both had knowledge, and Naruto knows that Sasuke has the Rinnegan, which from experience. He knows not go heavy on the Asura Avatar double rasenshuriken mayonnaise otherwise Sasuke might absorb my chakara, and I lose the one advantage I have over him. You even cited Naruto resorts to taijutsu, which at least gives him the chance to maintain the edge in chakara. You are the mouthpiece for Naruto side of things, buddy. It's the battledome. And the character you are making an argument for is Naruto. Be smarter in your strategies.




> And naruto has escaped from CT, amnesiac. Twice.


Not Sasuke's version. And slight correction on your part....Naruto has only been trapped by CT once, and that was Nagato's. Sasuke's variation proved it was on a totally different level.




> Because SPSM kurama avatars didn't tank indra susanno arrows which are mountain busters.


It didn't. It was countered, which lead to the destruction of both their avatars. That's second time you failed to reference the manga, homie.




> LIES. Sasuke never destroyed any clone, much less with "bare bones taijutsu". And sasuke doesn't have BPS so what is your fucking point?


I didn't say he destroyed them now did I? I said he dealt with them with "bare bone taijutsu" which is canon.(Read the manga homie)
As far as not having BPS...…….He may not need it, and considering it did nothing but stalemate Naruto while taking almost all his reserves; it may have been just a "waist of chakara"



> Apart from that one time he uses clones to prove a point to boruto, name one other canon instance sasuke uses clones...


Once again, the only time, now that he has the reserves to spare, now that he isn't afraid to borrow something from Naruto's repertoire out of shame, he has ever used it was in Baruto. It's what we call a new feat. It's the same thing Naruto's AA was. It's the same thing BPS was. It's the reason why some of us still read the new material. This is the battledome my guy, and this is almost exclusively speculative. We don't know what he'll do if were to face Naruto again. Especially without the aid of the Biju's. He may have to compensate. He may have to be more resourceful. He may have to pull out something he not used to using......_cough cough _the other abilities of the Rinnegan.



> In battle. I'll wait. If you can do that miraculously, Prove to me that sasuke consistently uses clones as part of his arsenal.


Sasuke using clones is just as out of character as Naruto aiming to kill Sasuke outright. Both are speculation my friend.

Let me ask you something....If you don't intend to utilize the AA argument. What is your fascination with Sasuke using clones. Unless you are secretly trying to utilize AA argument, or at least its set up. What ever happen to Naruto beats him with taijutsu?



> i see the confusion now, I thought you meant human sized BSM.


So now who's the quote on quote "Idiot"

BSM refers to BIJU SAGE MODE....Refers to Naruto taking the form of KURAMA.



> Shut the fuck up. They didn't use clones because momoshiki could absorb ninjutsu dumbass. That fight was mainly a taijutsu battle with supplementary jutsu being used(Stop playing with grown folks, please).


By they, does that include Sasuke? So are you conceding to point that Sasuke can utilize clones in battle? "Grown"? You're not even familiar with the terms we utilize for Naruto's transformations



> Yeah. Whatever you say dumbass.


So hostile. So confident. Yet you don't seem to familiar with the manga at all. You misquoted like about four times.

Learn to read before posting making you can avoid looking like the very thing you accuse me of being.


----------



## Buuhan (Nov 1, 2018)

Streak said:


> Whatever floats your boat.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Nov 1, 2018)

Hussain said:


> 1- I did not say you can't take the Databook as a proof. I just told you that he is not the one who wrote it. Simple as that.


He approved of it did he not. Which is the very thing he's doing with Baruto.


> 2- Had they been equal Sasuke wouldn't have needed all 9 Bijuus. It's not that hard.


LMAO, so controlling the Biju is not a power of the sharingan now? Taking their power is not one of the powers of the Rinnegan now? Correct me if I ain't right, but what was Gedo Mazo, a Rinnegan user best friend for dealing with Biju's, used for? 
Correct me if I ain't right, but does EMS Madara full power feature Kurama?
Why is it okay for Naruto to use a Biju for extra reserve, and not Sasuke?



> Are you saying that if we were to consider
> Naruto = 50
> Sasuke = 50
> 
> ...


Naruto is calculated with his Biju, right? 

And how is Sasuke still a 50 when, if 591 is when the data book was contrived, he was still unlocking and learning how to utilize his Rinnegan all throughout the Kaguya battle, Naruto battle, and still in Baruto.

How is Naruto still a 50, when he only has access to a portion of the other chakara given to him by the other biju's, and he no longer has access to the Truth seeking orbs?(This is before Baruto and getting access to the other half of the nine tails)



> and according to you
> 50  = 95 I.E Naruto = Sasuke?


No according to you. You are the one that created this stupid math problem which is virtually baseless. At least I'm attempting to utilize something that has merit



> please, it's a simple math and simple logic. Why it's so hard for Sasuke's fans to comprehend it?


Since when does math have anything to do with discussing a book about fictional characters? 

And you talk about Sasuke fans comprehending things, yet WE ARE THE ONE'S WITH THE PROOF. Naruto at ANY MAJOR PLOT POINT bested Sasuke. Naruto's fans thought they were finally going to get a W on the "Best Sasuke in battle" chalk board. Only for Kishi to give you a tie. At least we still got part 1 and the beginning of shippuden to hold on to. You talk about Sasuke fans, as if we need to prove something to Naruto fans.


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## Trojan (Nov 1, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Why is it okay for Naruto to use a Biju for extra reserve, and not Sasuke?


Why do I need to answer this retarded question a million time? 
even if I were to answer you again, you will not be able to comprehend it. So, let's leave it at that.

Thank you.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Nov 1, 2018)

Hussain said:


> Why do I need to answer this retarded question a million time?
> even if I were to answer you again, you will not be able to comprehend it. So, let's leave it at that.
> 
> Thank you.


Concession accepted.


----------



## Trojan (Nov 1, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Concession accepted.


whatever helps you sleep at night. 

you can also go back in the thread, and you will see I have already answered all the rubbish. 
Such that, Naruto's ability to still communicate/connect with the Bijuus.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Nov 1, 2018)

Hussain said:


> whatever helps you sleep at night.
> 
> you can also go back in the thread, and you will see I have already answered all the rubbish.
> Such that, Naruto's ability to still communicate/connect with the Bijuus.


Well you could've just.....
Copy pasted your answer or reiterated you point especially since it was rather short.


----------



## Mori Jin (Nov 1, 2018)

Well glad we all agree that sasuke loses this. Has no way (canon feats and not the fanfic feats his stans were using. "Sasuke is going to use clones in combat lol".) to actually beat Naruto, without the 9 bijuu. That's a fact.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Nov 1, 2018)

Mori Jin said:


> Well glad we all agree that sasuke loses this. Has no way (canon feats and not the fanfic feats his stans were using. "Sasuke is going to use clones in combat lol".) to actually beat Naruto, without the 9 bijuu. That's a fact.


Are you even reading the post?
You have arguments from sides, and didn't I kick your ass on page 1. How you going to jump back into the discussion as if I didn't hand you an assignment personally, and suggest "We all agree" to anything.


----------



## Mori Jin (Nov 1, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Are you even reading the post?
> You have arguments from sides, and didn't I kick your ass on page 1. How you going to jump back into the discussion as if I didn't hand you an assignment personally, and suggest "We all agree" to anything.



Nah you didn't, a bit delusional though. Your Fanfiction don't count for anything. Do carry on screaming pis cis or whatever crap you were spouting. 

What's a fact is sasuke ain't doing nothing to Naruto without the help of 9 bijuu and all that going to give him is a draw. Stay mad about that kid.


----------



## Trojan (Nov 1, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Well you could've just.....
> Copy pasted your answer or reiterated you point especially since it was rather short.


I was going to, but then I saw 9 pages and changed my mind. lol


----------



## Kagutsutchi (Nov 1, 2018)

PrimeRichard said:


> The same enton that one shot ceberus when the overrated sage rasengan couldn't right.


So cerberus now has greater durability than naruto?


----------



## King1 (Nov 1, 2018)

The amount of cringe worthy claims in this thread is mind blowing. Wondering if i should start posting in this thread


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## JJ Baloney (Nov 1, 2018)

King1 said:


> The amount of cringe worthy claims in this thread is mind blowing. Wondering if i should start posting in this thread


Do eeeeeetttt!


I wanna say Naruto. Sasuke is gonna run out of chakra first.


----------



## Serene Grace (Nov 1, 2018)

King1 said:


> The amount of cringe worthy claims in this thread is mind blowing. Wondering if i should start posting in this thread


Yes I agree

The Sasuke damage control is hilarious

Fanboys wont accept he loses


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## PrimeRichard (Nov 1, 2018)

Kamalu said:


> So cerberus now has greater durability than naruto?



IpHr0z3nI said sasuke is not a fool to confront naruto in taijutsu with one arm but you somehow think that because naruto clones are durable he can fight sasuke in taijutsu regardless of his mode(base) and he said if he approaches sasuke in taijutsu he will use enton on him which you thik naruto can shrug off even if he is in base.
To my understanding you were trying to downplay amaterasu even if naruto or his clones are in base which is why i made a statement saying amaterasu oneshot Cerberus which rasengan didn't do.
Fact is base naruto and his clones are not surviving amaterasu which you think he does regardless of his mode been base.


----------



## PrimeRichard (Nov 1, 2018)

Wrecked Baloney said:


> Do eeeeeetttt!
> 
> 
> I wanna say Naruto. Sasuke is gonna run out of chakra first.


If naruto doesn't use chakra base attacks then yes


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## Kagutsutchi (Nov 1, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> his ability absorb chakara,


It's chakra, wise guy. And sasuke only absorbed chakra once, when he ran out of his own. Absorbing chakra is not sasuke's style.



> mastery over ameno,


VOTE2 Sasuke amenos to naruto who proceeds to turn around before sasuke could stab him(in futility) with chidori. And if you say adult sasuke is faster, well adult naruto is faster.



> his ability to jump dimensions?


How will this help him win the fight?



> So what you are essentially saying is "Naruto pure physicals and bijuu cloak" counters Sasuke's better mastery over the Rinnegan?


Yes.




> We can't just say Naruto will utilize RSM clones in this hypothetical battle either, as he's only utilize them a means to counter Sasuke intake of the tail beast chakara. You want to play stick what's in character, that goes both ways young man.


Why don't you shut the fuck up. Naruto will use clones in character no matter what form he's in.  In canon, He used RSM clones against kaguya, toneri, momoshiki(in the stadium) and sasuke himself(VOTE 2, There were clones in those Kurama avatars)




> IN COMBAT against a Sasuke's *BSM* so it's still situational Mr. Kamalu.
> There is no *BSM* here...Hell they're may not be a PS vs. KA the way Baruto has them fighting.


What the fuck are you saying? Sasuke has BSM? God, I doubt your intelligence.



> So that's why he attacked Sasuke why the were both half dead with a Rasengan? You do know that if not for Sakura, both of them would have died. So who not fighting to kill, again?


Except naruto equaled the force sasuke threw at him.




> Liar, A? I believe I said hardly. Naruto's only had two fights as an adult. Against shin.....Against Momoshiki……
> 
> Against shin he barely fought, but still no clones.
> Against Momoshiki he probably told not utilize clones because Momoshiki had the ability to absorb ninjutsu? But who knows, any who, we haven't see him utilize BSM clones and especially not the ones utilize to form AA. So my point still stand.


If you don't even fucking remember what happened, I don't see why you should be in this debate. Naruto creates clones to fight the shin clones. Chapter 9, amnesiac.




> (Someone's cranky)
> Don't remember much from The Last, but I do know it takes place before the events of Baruto. I do know it's trivial because Sasuke was showcased with the ability to turn off his Rinnegan, which is something he has shown not capable of doing in Baruto. But once again, I don't mind you using it because it still doesn't dispute my point. We're talking about Adult Naruto and Adult Sasuke.


The last is canon, so it's not trivial. Naruto creates clons in that fight against toneri.





> It's speculation my good man because we have yet to see Naruto, as an adult, generate same power output demonstrated at VOE2.


He can generate the same power output, he just hasn't had the chance to do so. Now can sasuke generate the same power output as then? No.



> Which is the underlining point between Adult Naruto and Adult Sasuke. I don't know if you know this, but they HAVEN'T FOUGHT AS ADULTS. Therefore WE HAVE NO IDEA what both sides might do. Sasuke might see fit to use clones since he is fighting with only one arm, and he is going against a person that frequently uses clones, as you put it. Embarrassing myself, A? Says the person getting all emotional over an argument. Learn to calm the fuck down when you post, and maybe we can talk about embarrassing oneself.


Lol. Maybe when your arguments are backed by canon, we'll talk about embarrassing oneself.





> He only found out he could absorb chakara at the tail end of his fight with Naruto.


That explains why he tells naruto "This is an ability of the rinnegan" as he's absorbing the chakra.



> He was hardly featured in The Last; only showing up to save the village with a chidori, and only exclusively fought Kinshiki who is a kenjutsu specialist.


When he absorbed naruto's chakra, was naruto performing any jutsu then? Your arguments are shit.



> Against Momoshiki, IN THE MOVIE, the only reiteration I've watched entirely, he hardly utilized jutsu in which he can absorb. In the anime, in which I watched some, he utilized a large portion of ninjutsu. He didn't need to utilize the ability to absorb chakara because Ameno was simply a better option.


Just stop with your silly excuses, go watch the series again and bring me a better argument instead of it's speculation, or else I will bring forth the naruto has tsb and can make AA so gg because it's speculation nonsense as well.




> We are usually allowed to utilize things characters have done.


We aren't allowed to have characters act OOC.



> They are called feats. And since this a hypothetical battle between two characters that's never fought and hardly shown their full power as an ADULT. Some speculation needs to be made on both sides.


Okay. Naruto uses TSB, uses AA again to kill sasuke, gg. It's all speculation right, retard?



> Who knows why Sasuke hasn't/doesn't utilize clones in battle. Maybe it was the lack of chakara reserves that was available to Naruto until now. Maybe is because he look down upon it, as he did say to Naruto at VOE2 when he utilize clones, "That jutsu is the symbol of your weakness. A jutsu that shows exactly how lonely you are."(Chapter 696 page 10) Who knows. The point is he used that them in Baruto, and since using clones against Momoshiki wasn't an option he opted not to use it then. Anyways Sasuke using clones is new feat, one of the few we got for Sasuke to begin with, don't expect us not to use it.


Don't be stupid. Sasuke doesn't use clones in battle because kishimoto didn't want him to, he doesn't want to and therefore, you can't give sasuke skills he doesn't have. Bring up this sasuke uses clones in battle bullshit again and I'm done reeducating your ass.




> We don't know what Sasuke would do if he had to face Naruto again without the aid of the Biju....Hence is why this thread exist. Hence is why we have six pages of back fourth between the fandom.


Hence, we have idiots giving sasuke skills he doesn't have instead of using his own moves to make an argument.



> but certainly not versatility.


Because versatility now implies superiority. Please don't be an idiot.



> Sasuke has two elemental affinities including a Kekei Genkai in Kagutsuchi. Sasuke has numerous raiton variants, two sets of summons, and access to the Rinnegan/mangekyou. Naruto has rasengan, big rasengan, small rasengan, FRS, TBB, clones. We can literally list Naruto's ninjutsu on a note card, and still have room to spare. Naruto's ninjutsu all do the same thing.....BLOW SHIT UP. At least Sasuke has things that actually do something different. Some cut, some pierce, some burn, some maim, some paralyze etc. etc.


Sasuke will win because of this now, because naruto has not tanked a chidori, and cannot just nuke sasuke's summons to oblivion. Heck a TBBRS will destroy sasuke's PS just fine.



> Even in their final jutsu exchange at VOE2 shows the difference in their ninjutsu skill. Sasuke created enton chidori and Naruto countered with bare bones rasengan.


You said it, not me. *A bare bones rasengan is equal to an enton chidori*



> You are not even worth arguing with if you think Naruto has the edge when it comes to ninjutsu. Naruto has Kurama, and that has allowed to literally overwhelm his opponents with a rasengan/rasengan variant.


Sure thing man. I'll let the fandom decide who won this debate instead of some amnesiac fanfic writer.




> That was Amaterasu. I was referring to Enton Kagutsuchi…..You know the one that cuts, stabs, maims like certain SWORD....The one that actually manage to break Kinshiki's axe in the movie at least.


And naruto's chakra cloak is now as durable as kinshiki's axe? God you're stupid.




> Except Naruto has hardly tried to engage Sasuke that way except in base. Against BPS, he tried with BSM and got wrecked. Sasuke probably should have stuck to what was working, but nope. He wanted to blow Naruto off the map with Indra's arrow and it was hard countered.


What was working, Him trying to kill a naruto who wasn't trying to kill him? What a dumbass you are.




> And Naruto fighting Sasuke for the quote on quote KILL, is fanfic. But here we are discussing ways for Naruto to potentially kill Sasuke, right? You need to let your balls drop, and learn what the actual battle dome is before talking recklessly.


You need to use your brain cells before you talk at all.




> It's not that Naruto has low reserves it's Naruto using that much chakara against someone who can hard counter it with someone who has, I don't know, CHAKARA ASORBTION.


Pain had chakra absorption, madara had chakra absorption, Kaguya had chakra absorption, Toneri had chakra absorption, Yet naruto still used clones, many in fact so you have no point at all. momoshiki is a special case, because his rinnegan ability was to absorb and amplify jutsu thrown at him, then send it back.



> I believe the opening of thread specified both had knowledge, and Naruto knows that Sasuke has the Rinnegan, which from experience. He knows not go heavy on the Asura Avatar double rasenshuriken mayonnaise otherwise Sasuke might absorb my chakara, and I lose the one advantage I have over him.


Of course, naruto was blind when he and sasuke fought madara and kaguya after gaining rikudo powers. Stupid ass logic.



> Be smarter in your strategies.


Use canon in your argument dumbass.




> Not Sasuke's version. And slight correction on your part....Naruto has only been trapped by CT once, and that was Nagato's. Sasuke's variation proved it was on a totally different level.


Yes, putting tailed beasts in genjutsu *before *casting CT on them was for show. I mean it's not like the tailed beasts couldn't bust outta there otherwise if not for the genjutsu. It's not like momoshiki didn't bust out of CT when sasuke used it on him. Please keep on making yourself look like a fool.





> It didn't. It was countered, which lead to the destruction of both their avatars. That's second time you failed to reference the manga, homie.


I was referring to the initial arrows that destroyed the tailed beast balls before hitting the avatars. I referenced manga idiot.



> As far as not having BPS...…….He may not need it, and considering it did nothing but stalemate Naruto while taking almost all his reserves; it may have been just a "waist of chakara"


Sasuke's strongest form is a waste of chakra. Wow, the level of fanfic. You're memeworthy.



> Once again, the only time, now that he has the reserves to spare, now that he isn't afraid to borrow something from Naruto's repertoire out of shame, he has ever used it was in Baruto. It's what we call a new feat. It's the same thing Naruto's AA was. It's the same thing BPS was. It's the reason why some of us still read the new material. This is the battledome my guy, and this is almost exclusively speculative. We don't know what he'll do if were to face Naruto again. Especially without the aid of the Biju's. He may have to compensate. He may have to be more resourceful. He may have to pull out something he not used to using......_cough cough _the other abilities of the Rinnegan.


We know sasuke will not act out of character and use clones until we see something new that says otherwise. *Like using clones in battle.*




> Sasuke using clones is just as out of character as Naruto aiming to kill Sasuke outright. Both are speculation my friend.


No. the only speculation here is what would happen if naruto decided to kill sasuke, not if sasuke is allowed to use clones in battle. It's in the fucking OP.




> So now who's the quote on quote "Idiot"


You, the "Retard"



> BSM refers to BIJU SAGE MODE....Refers to Naruto taking the form of KURAMA.


I was wrong on this, I'll admit. It's just that naruto's is unique compared to other jinchuriki's.



> By they, does that include Sasuke? So are you conceding to point that Sasuke can utilize clones in battle?


No, i meant naruto alone.



> "Grown"? You're not even familiar with the terms we utilize for Naruto's transformations


says the guy that keeps on giving sasuke skills he never uses in battle, while taking away naruto's skills.


----------



## Zensuki (Nov 1, 2018)

Ameno GG


----------



## Mindovin (Nov 1, 2018)

OP didn't give mindset and starting distance and people fighting over it 7 pages and 189 replies with only speculations, it's hilarious because this is the two important thing that changes the whole fight.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Nov 1, 2018)

Mori Jin said:


> Nah you didn't, a bit delusional though. Your Fanfiction don't count for anything. Do carry on screaming pis cis or whatever crap you were spouting.


Really?
I'm quite sure I did.

Any who I didn't come to argue. I'm just here to point out that this thread wouldn't have reached 7 pages if we were all in agreement. It's delusional believe "We are all agreeing" on any conclusion, when we're still debating the issue. And I'm the one screaming anything. You have me confused with another poster Mr. Mori Jin.




> What's a fact is sasuke ain't doing nothing to Naruto without the help of 9 bijuu and all that going to give him is a draw. Stay mad about that kid.


Stay mad with Naruto's record against Sasuke.


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## Mori Jin (Nov 1, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Really?
> I'm quite sure I did.
> 
> Any who I didn't come to argue. I'm just here to point out that this thread wouldn't have reached 7 pages if we were all in agreement. It's delusional believe "We are all agreeing" on any conclusion, when we're still debating the issue. And I'm the one screaming anything. You have me confused with another poster Mr. Mori Jin.
> ...



Yes really.

Glad you agree that you was spouting nothing but fanfic (see you can use your brain).

Sure does seem like it though. It wouldn't have reached 7 pages of it wasn't for insecure sasuke faps. "We" those that are not sasuke faps, you were not included in that generalisation. You'd say that of course (we're at 7 pages because of you and the others insecurities). IpHr0z3nI is the guy I'm talking about, that's you. 

The W he gave sasuke, and the draw in the end. The W he gave sasuke and the L he gave sasuke in the end. Reasonable record for a guy who never tried killing sasuke. Can't say the same for Mr. Emo.


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## Buuhan (Nov 1, 2018)

So now the Sasuke fans argue that he can blitz Naruto with ameno and kill him with enton in base.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Nov 1, 2018)

Kamalu said:


> It's chakra, wise guy. And sasuke only absorbed chakra once, when he ran out of his own. Absorbing chakra is not sasuke's style.


"Chakara" "Chakra" same thing. As long as you understand what I'm referring to.
You keep reading Sasuke only doing such, such once, but neglect the fact that we barely have any version of Sasuke in which has fought at full power at all. Shin was a push over and didn't utilize chakara based ninjutsu at all. Kinshiki was exclusively kenjutsu based, and Momoshiki required a special way to fight him.(And Momo barely utilized ninjutsu as well, even when fused) 

The bottom line is Sasuke has barely had any panel time to showcase much of his jutsu at all. There's only such much panel time, and most of that has been reserved for Baruto, Sarada, etc. etc. It's called Baruto: Naruto the next generation for a reason. 



> VOTE2 Sasuke amenos to naruto who proceeds to turn around before sasuke could stab him(in futility) with chidori. And if you say adult sasuke is faster, well adult naruto is faster.


Sasuke attack still appears to have connected it just pushed him back, and why oh why are limiting situation in which ameno can be useful? Ameno his a  supplementary jutsu. It can be used for offense and DEFENSE. Emphases on DEFENSE.  




> How will this help him win the fight?


It helped him against Momoshiki and Kinishiki when he was fighting alone. It's a another defensive maneuver in case he encounters something he's unable to handle such has AA Double Rasenshuriken.(The attack in which Naruto utilized to counter Indra's arrow) Gosh you are rather closeminded. 



> Yes.


Then why does the Rinnegan still seems to be an effective power up against him?
Why are you still not willing yield on the issue of Sasuke having full mastery over the dojutsu.("Blah, blah, blah he's only utilized the ability to absorb jutsu once")





> Why don't you shut the fuck up. Naruto will use clones in character no matter what form he's in.  In canon, He used RSM clones against kaguya, toneri, momoshiki(in the stadium) and sasuke himself(VOTE 2, There were clones in those Kurama avatars)


Are you no reading correctly? I was purely referring to the type of clones with the Kurama avatars. I don't care what form of clones he's utilized outside of that, as the only ones Sasuke would have trouble handling is the one's with the Kurama avatar. And I said RSM, but clearly defined the type of clones I referring to. 



> What the fuck are you saying? Sasuke has BSM? God, I doubt your intelligence.


I meant to say BPS Biju Perfect Susano'o. He clearly doesn't have a sage mode.



> Except naruto equaled the force sasuke threw at him.


So you agree at some point Naruto was going all out against Sasuke, right?





> If you don't even fucking remember what happened, I don't see why you should be in this debate. Naruto creates clones to fight the shin clones. Chapter 9, amnesiac.


I think we are using two totally different sources regarding the shin battle. I'm using the gaiden itself, it appears to me that you are using Baruto. I'm sorry, but I haven't read Baruto, so I am not aware to what changes were made. 



> The last is canon, so it's not trivial. Naruto creates clons in that fight against toneri.


I'm merely quoting what I heard from another poster. I don't particularly care if it's canon or not, it just means Sasuke could potentially revert his Rinnegan eye back to normal if he wanted to.



> He can generate the same power output, he just hasn't had the chance to do so. Now can sasuke generate the same power output as then? No.


So you say Naruto can execute the same power output he just haven't had a chance to, but deny that same fact regarding Sasuke using preta path and clones? 



> Lol. Maybe when your arguments are backed by canon, we'll talk about embarrassing oneself.


(This young boy, here) 
Sasuke using clones is canon. Sasuke having preta path is canon. Canon only means it's happened in the anime, manga, gaiden, etc. etc.



> That explains why he tells naruto "This is an ability of the rinnegan" as he's absorbing the chakra.


You missed me with this. I have no idea what you are trying to imply or the point in which you're making.




> When he absorbed naruto's chakra, was naruto performing any jutsu then? Your arguments are shit.


When he absorbed naruto's chakara, was Naruto in a position in which he could utilize ninjutsu. I believe the scene has Kurama struggling to give him it's last remaining chakara to perform a rasengan, and Sasuke stealing it before that could be done. He then gives Naruto more chakara to counter act Sasuke's next move. The bottom line is Sasuke was never in a position where he could absorb chakara from Naruto's jutsu. But we do know from Nagato and Madara that preta path can be utilized to absorb ninjutsu. Unless you are suggesting Sasuke can't utilize preta path like Nagato/Madara, I fail to see your point.




> Just stop with your silly excuses, go watch the series again and bring me a better argument instead of it's speculation, or else I will bring forth the naruto has tsb and can make AA so gg because it's speculation nonsense as well.


Correct me if I ain't right, but didn't earlier you utilize the excuse that, "He can generate the same power output, he just hasn't had the chance to do so." Is that not an excuse. Better yet is not the same exact excuse I'm giving you just less fleshed out. Learn how to debate before stepping into the ring with yours truly.



> We aren't allowed to have characters act OOC.


Who are you to tell me the rules of the battledome…. You been posting here for what..... not even a month.

And look around almost everyone posting is using OOC tactics. It's because the fight is purely speculation they simply don't have enough feats as adults to warrant such a discussion without reverting to something they did at VOE2.




> Okay. Naruto uses TSB, uses AA again to kill sasuke, gg. It's all speculation right, retard?


Don't know what TSB....I'm guessing Truth Seeking Balls, for which Naruto has no access to. And AA avatar only has one feat in which can be absorb or just play avoided thanks to S/T jutsu.....Nice try.

But that's exactly how the battledome is suppose to work. It was you who initially came with some cringe worthy tactics such as Naruto beats with taijutsu.




> Don't be stupid. Sasuke doesn't use clones in battle because kishimoto didn't want him to, he doesn't want to and therefore, you can't give sasuke skills he doesn't have. Bring up this sasuke uses clones in battle bullshit again and I'm done reeducating your ass.


Sasuke never utilized clones outside of battle because Kishi didn't want him to, as well. But he did it in Baruto now did he? And once again; who are you, who's not even been here for a month, to tell me how the battle dome works? 

Sasuke has access to clones accept it and move on, period.



> Hence, we have idiots giving sasuke skills he doesn't have instead of using his own moves to make an argument.


You are just one poster, a newbie at that. How in fuck are you going to tell someone they can't use a skill because they, why they have the skill, t haven't used it in certain situation. GTFO of here.



> Because versatility now implies superiority. Please don't be an idiot.


Because versatility implies having more options, which equates to having more ways to kill your opponent using the ninjutsu arts. I'd say that's very important and a sign of superiority.



> Sasuke will win because of this now, because naruto has not tanked a chidori, and cannot just nuke sasuke's summons to oblivion. Heck a TBBRS will destroy sasuke's PS just fine.


You're the one that said Naruto was better in ninjutsu, not me. I was simply laying all the cards on the table. As far as Naruto nuking everything.....How about Sasuke puts that ass in time out from jump with a coreless CT, and good luck of Naruto nuking that without blowing up himself. You see both sides can play the mindless blood lusted "spam your best jutsu" game and avoid using tactics if they really wanted to.



> You said it, not me. *A bare bones rasengan is equal to an enton chidori*


We don't know if it was equal because it was a horrible decision from the start judging from just their clash with a traditional chidori and Rasengan. For all we know Sasuke, applying more fire power to his chidori, may have been the catalyst to what led to the loss an arm. Because a normal rasengan/chidori exchange up until now has only resulted in both users being thrown back.

And I said it to demonstrate a point. Sasuke is more skilled in ninjutsu than Naruto is because he has not only a larger arsenal, but his arsenal can combine with other aspects of his arsenal to make his attacks more deadly.



> Sure thing man. I'll let the fandom decide who won this debate instead of some amnesiac fanfic writer.


Don't be so full of yourself, I doubt anyone is even reading at this point. A battle dome debate doesn't have any judges, unless it's a sanction one. And considering your point here has nothing to do with what I arbitrated here, I'd say you are just save face posting at this point.



> And naruto's chakra cloak is now as durable as kinshiki's axe? God you're stupid.


Stupid? Are you even listening to yourself? I never said Kinshiki's axe is as durable as Naruto's cloak, I was merely pointing out that Naruto chakara shroud utilized to block Amaterasu didn't block Enton Kagutsuchi, which is an entirely different attack. Secondly, is Naruto cloak always up? I do remember him fighting in base. I do remember his RSM in the gaiden being stab by Sasuke normal sword. You are the one who brought up Naruto could best him using solely taijutsu, oh how far have we come from that conclusion. Now we're on to the chakara avatar A vs. chakara avatar B scenario, and skipping the build up.



> What was working, Him trying to kill a naruto who wasn't trying to kill him? What a dumbass you are.


BPS vs. BRSM....Sasuke avatar was owning Naruto's in taijutsu if I remember correctly. It wasn't until one of the clones started gathering the worlds Natural energy, and the others fused together to form AA that the battle became even.

And it's implied that Sasuke's Indra's arrow still had more fire power because Naruto's double FRS, it doesn't have an official name, had the elemental advantage and it still stalemated.

So yes Sasuke would have probably been better off not blowing the extra chakara he gather from the biju's on one final attack that, as you said yourself, failed to kill Naruto.



> You need to use your brain cells before you talk at all.


So this counters my point how? If you are just going resort to flaming without applying any substance then it's no point in debating with you at all.





> Pain had chakra absorption, madara had chakra absorption, Kaguya had chakra absorption, Toneri had chakra absorption, Yet naruto still used clones, many in fact so you have no point at all. momoshiki is a special case, because his rinnegan ability was to absorb and amplify jutsu thrown at him, then send it back.


Ah the clone issue again, yeah I believe we're passed that.

I never said Naruto doesn't utilize clones in battle he just never utilized the Kurama Avatar clones against anyone bar Sasuke.



> Of course, naruto was blind when he and sasuke fought madara and kaguya after gaining rikudo powers. Stupid ass logic.


What in the blue hell does this have to do with my point here. I think you are just safe face posting, in which I am not with the BS. If you are not going to take the time to counter what's actually there then it's no point in us going back in forth.(Especially considering all you have is insults, after insults as if you are some angry...………)



> Use canon in your argument dumbass.


Oh I've been sticking to canon. It's you who has went all desperate on the, "Naruto TSB and uses AA BS for GG" argument not me.





> Yes, putting tailed beasts in genjutsu *before *casting CT on them was for show. I mean it's not like the tailed beasts couldn't bust outta there otherwise if not for the genjutsu. It's not like momoshiki didn't bust out of CT when sasuke used it on him. Please keep on making yourself look like a fool.


Making the assumption that the tailed beast could even bust out? And since when are the TB even on momoshiki level.



> I was referring to the initial arrows that destroyed the tailed beast balls before hitting the avatars. I referenced manga idiot.


Is that clear from what you posted, obviously. Rather than call me an idiot for umpteenth time, why not go back and better arbitrate what you meant. 



> Sasuke's strongest form is a waste of chakra. Wow, the level of fanfic. You're memeworthy.


Considering it failed to kill Naruto. It was a waste of chakara, period.  It doesn't matter if it was his strongest form, when the best he got of it was a stalemate which led to him being almost out of chakara, and being unable to control his "Dojutsu" abilities properly. What's sad is that he would have lost afterwards if not for the emergence of Preta Path.



> We know sasuke will not act out of character and use clones until we see something new that says otherwise. *Like using clones in battle.*


Lol, the fallacy in your logic. He hasn't therefore he can't. Once again I'll quote you and end this shit right here. He can "he just hasn't had the chance to do so." Your response to why Naruto hasn't utilized AA or BRSM clones.(Biju Rikudo sage Mode)



> No. the only speculation here is what would happen if naruto decided to kill sasuke, not if sasuke is allowed to use clones in battle. It's in the fucking OP.


Both are what if's, mate.



> You, the "Retard"


Says the person who has literally boiled whole discussion down to "He can't use clones in battle" because he hasn't. Despite only showing willingness to utilize clones once in Baruto. Despite only being in one fight following the revelation that he can summon shadow clones; in which clones were not allowed?(Even Naruto didn't opt to utilize clones against Momoshiki because Sasuke told him not to)




> I was wrong on this, I'll admit. It's just that naruto's is unique compared to other jinchuriki's.


Or is it simply a case of you not understanding or reading what is being arbitrated?



> No, i meant naruto alone.


But you clearly said They. "They" in the dictionary refers to more than one person.




> says the guy that keeps on giving sasuke skills he never uses in battle, while taking away naruto's skills.


I haven't taken away anything from Naruto. He's allowed to utilize whatever is at his disposal. I merely cited you to keep that same energy when it comes to Sasuke.


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## Topace (Nov 1, 2018)

5 page essays with an opening, closing m, and thesis statement. Y’all are dictated.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Nov 1, 2018)

Mori Jin said:


> Yes really.
> 
> Glad you agree that you was spouting nothing but fanfic (see you can use your brain).


Nothing but fanfic.....What is exactly fanfic....Never mind. This entire discussion is fanfic. Adult Naruto and Adult Sasuke have never fought. So both sides are essentially spouting fanfic, when the peak of their power as an adult is a fused Kurama and Perfect Susano'o.



> Sure does seem like it though. It wouldn't have reached 7 pages of it wasn't for insecure sasuke faps. "We" those that are not sasuke faps, you were not included in that generalisation. You'd say that of course (we're at 7 pages because of you and the others insecurities). IpHr0z3nI is the guy I'm talking about, that's you.


Have even read the seven pages? You must not have not? I can't speak for everyone, but I'm very secure on where Sasuke stands. Sasuke isn't the title character nor was he the good guy in their battle. The best we could have hoped for was a tie in the end, and that's exactly what we got.

Also there's a word in the dictionary called coherence. You might want to look that up before attempting to go on a rant about how one side is responsible for a discussion being seven pages. When it takes two the argue. It's that cute you reference me specifically, but correct me if I ain't right. You still have an assignment of the first page Mr. Jin. Unless you are willing to answer that there is no point in point in giving you "Extra credit" 



> The W he gave sasuke, and the draw in the end. The W he gave sasuke and the L he gave sasuke in the end. Reasonable record for a guy who never tried killing sasuke. Can't say the same for Mr. Emo.


He didn't give Sasuke anything, as Naruto outright stated "Why didn't you kill me back then" at the start of part 2. And where is the L Naruto gave Sasuke? In the end both couldn't move. In the end both would have bled to death. I don't know what you are smoking, or what quote on quote "Fan-fic" you are trying to create, but stick to the manga buddy.


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## Mori Jin (Nov 1, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Nothing but fanfic.....What is exactly fanfic....Never mind. This entire discussion is fanfic. Adult Naruto and Adult Sasuke have never fought. So both sides are essentially spouting fanfic, when the peak of their power as an adult is a fused Kurama and Perfect Susano'o.
> 
> 
> Have even read the seven pages? You must not have not? I can't speak for everyone, but I'm very secure on where Sasuke stands. Sasuke isn't the title character nor was he the good guy in their battle. The best we could have hoped for was a tie in the end, and that's exactly what we got.
> ...



Strike-through #1 = Trash

Strike-through #2 = Trash

Strike-through #3 = Trash 

Lol you seem hurt 

"I'm not here to argue". Cry to someone else kid, cause ain't nobody care about your fanfic. 

Adult Naruto Ashura Avatar >>>>>>>>> Anything Adult Sasuke can do. 

End of discussion (on my part, carry on repeating whatever it is you were spouting).


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## IpHr0z3nI (Nov 1, 2018)

Mori Jin said:


> Strike-through #1 = Trash
> 
> Strike-through #2 = Trash
> 
> ...


And you seem desperate for attention. 



> "I'm not here to argue". Cry to someone else kid, cause ain't nobody care about your fanfic.


I was referring to specifically because it appears you weren't about that life, and I see nothing here that changes my mind.



> Adult Naruto Ashura Avatar >>>>>>>>> Anything Adult Sasuke can do.


We've seen Adult Naruto's Ashura Avatar? Page please. Take you troll ass, trash ass, borderline fanfic, retarded BS somewhere else kid.




> End of discussion (on my part, carry on repeating whatever it is you were spouting).


I agree, I see no reason to go back forth against someone who believes that Naruto has ever bested Sasuke in any official one on one bought.

Hold this L, like you your favorite character had to hold that L end of part 1 and BOS.


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## Buuhan (Nov 1, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> \
> 
> We've seen Adult Naruto's Ashura Avatar? Page please. Take you troll ass, trash ass, borderline fanfic, retarded BS somewhere else kid.


Why wouldn't he have it?


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## IpHr0z3nI (Nov 1, 2018)

Buuhan said:


> Why wouldn't he have it?


Because as Mori Jin has arbitrated so diligently it's Fanfic, and we're not including Fanfics, right?


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## Buuhan (Nov 2, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Because as Mori Jin has arbitrated so diligently it's Fanfic, and we're not including Fanfics, right?


What’s your stance on the ability. I never asked for his.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Nov 2, 2018)

Buuhan said:


> What’s your stance on the ability. I never asked for his.


I've already laid out my stance on it several post ago, but my counters for it were considered Fanfic.

So that should tell you that I still believe Naruto could do it if that's what you wanted to know.


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## Buuhan (Nov 2, 2018)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> I've already laid out my stance on it several post ago, but my counters for it were considered Fanfic.
> 
> So that should tell you that I still believe Naruto could do it if that's what you wanted to know.


Oh yeah he should be able to.


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