# Vergo vs. Magellan



## Rob (Dec 31, 2013)

Location: Loguetown central (In front of the Execution Platform)
Distance: Start at 25m
S.O.M.: IC, Intent to Kill
Knowledge: None, Gains through fight

Was discussing this match up on another forum. I'm not sure where I stand here. I feel that it all depends on whether Vergo's level of Haki can tank a Kinjite Drenching. Gut tells me Magellan wins. 

Discuss.


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## Katou (Dec 31, 2013)

Vergo should totally win here 

due to his Arnament Haki making Magellan's Intangibility render useless 
and to put it simply . .Magellan can't probably can't Tag Vergo before Vergo kills him

only thing Magellan can do is withstanding the hits to a small amount of time since Vergo's attack hurts like hell according to Law's experience or Nuking him with Poisonous Dragons that'll probably take time before he hits Vergo  . . . before it even happens. .Vergo have already have Won 

Not only They don't have knowledge .. Which makes it worse since Magellan is not going to be aware that he will be getting inflicted by Physical attacks due to Arnament


Fuck me . . and my Fanfictions 

Vergo Low ~ mid diff


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## Rob (Dec 31, 2013)

^Magellan doesn't have Intang. He's a Paramecia.

Don't forget that Magellan has his Chloroform Ball. 

And No knowledge really plays in Magellan's favor, wouldn't you think?


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## duhjuanwhowins (Dec 31, 2013)

^Magellan isn't a logia.
I think vergo should high-diff this one. I don't think that his haki can be easily penetrated by Magellan's poison. The only way I can see Vergo losing is if he gets a hydra landed on him which could prove to be fatal.

*edit*
Ninja'd


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## Katou (Dec 31, 2013)

Wait really? well fuck me then 

but still .. his body wasn't completely immune to Luffy's Attack  . .but it also Backfires .. like Punching a Spiked Wall . . but using Poison as the latter 


Since Vergo is using his Bamboo stick as his Catalyst for not Getting harmed at all whenever he attacks 

although like i said. .it will take a while to take down Magellan who manage to withstand Luffy ..
but then again . . Magellan can't easily hit Vergo . . since Magellan didn't manage to hit Luffy that easy either

Plus .. Vergo is more Intellectual than Luffy . .so it would be more Harder for Magellan . .since Vergo is more Unpredictable


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## Rob (Dec 31, 2013)

IIRC, Kinjite spreads. If Vergo's Bamboo so much as comes into contact with it, he can forget about using that thing again.


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## Katou (Dec 31, 2013)

Fuck me then

 . .I lose ~ you win

me : Vergo Low~Mid diff


*You guys : Vergo High Diffs ( but still debatable )*


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## Goomoonryong (Dec 31, 2013)

Vergo would beat Magellan, but would end up dying from his poison.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Dec 31, 2013)

"Vergo gets hit by Kinjite"
Vergo: It's ok, I brought the antidote with me.
Magellan: There is no antidote.
Vergo: Oh, right, I forgot there isn't one.
"Vergo dies"


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## Lance (Dec 31, 2013)

Vergo wins this one after few minutes of scrimmages ( you know to know your opponent). I can't see poision freak (man hated that guy) landing hits on Vergo because of his Speed.


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## Rob (Dec 31, 2013)

Who the hell hates Magellan?


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## Shinryu (Dec 31, 2013)

Vergo oneshots Magellan


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## Ghost (Dec 31, 2013)

Magellan bends over.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Dec 31, 2013)

Vergo runs a marathon around Magellan then one shots him.


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## Rob (Dec 31, 2013)

Shinryu said:


> Vergo oneshots Magellan


lol


Zorofangirl24 said:


> Vergo runs a marathon around Magellan then one shots him.


lol ......


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## Forcer (Dec 31, 2013)

Its a Double KO


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## tanman (Dec 31, 2013)

If Vergo doesn't underestimate his opponent, Magellan goes down first.


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## Lance (Dec 31, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Who the hell hates Magellan?



I hate him more than Usopp.


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## Rob (Jan 1, 2014)

Who the hell hates Usopp?


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## mr sean66 (Jan 1, 2014)

Magellan wins especially if he goes venom demon.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 1, 2014)

> "Vergo gets hit by Kinjite"
> Vergo: It's ok, I brought the antidote with me.
> Magellan: There is no antidote.
> Vergo: Oh, right, I forgot there isn't one.
> "Vergo dies"



haha Amusing oda wrote the fight and wanted vergo to lose, i could see him saying something like this.


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## Slenderman (Jan 1, 2014)

Hate is a very strong word. That's almost like saying you think Ussop should be dead. Anywho Vergo high diffs. If he can hit him before Kinjite comes he's good. If Mags starts in Kinjite he wins high diff most likely.


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## J★J♥ (Jan 1, 2014)

Vergo can curbstomp him if he starts in his full haki armor if not he loses, but still injures Magelan.


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## Dunno (Jan 1, 2014)

Magellan beat Teach. Magellan beats Vergo.


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## November (Jan 2, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Who the hell hates Usopp?


Good Question 



			
				RobLucciRapes said:
			
		

> Who the hell hates Magellan?


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## Katou (Jan 2, 2014)

How did Magellan get hated? 

he was only doing his Job  

just because he Mid diff SA Luffy


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## Rob (Jan 2, 2014)

^"Mid diff"


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## Katou (Jan 2, 2014)

Fine. . Extreme then


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jan 2, 2014)

People are really forgeting the basic power of Haki, you know, the one that it has to go through it to touch your skin and the fact that Vergo is a master in that Haki makes just too hard to believe that any poison that needs to touch Vergo will work . Kinjite is not going to put down a guy who has a armor to punch Magellan whenever he wants to, the best tactic for Magellan is to use Chloro Ball and Doku Gumo, something that he can disperse with his Bamboo Air attack, also he can Geppou his way up . Pre TS Luffy was escaping the Chloro Balls and fighting with Magellan, Vergo was fighting Post TS Smoker and Post TS Sanji, Haki is the perfect counter to Magellan's poison, cause you don't get poisoned in the first place and Vergo is a master on it so no  " Vergo wins but dies from the poisoning " cause Rayleigh explained that Haki is a armor in the first place, and for the poison take effect it would have to touch the skin or be strong enough to somehow dissolve Vergo's Haki . Also don't forget that Vergo can use the " Shigan to the throat/skull/heart ", he doesn't have to punch or beat Magellan with his Bamboo he can use a more efficient way to kill Magellan .

Edit: Magellan attacks with Hydra, Vergo CoA's his body and attacks, after a few Shigans to the head and throat . Vergo wins and Monet says to Vergo that he has a piece of Hamburger in his cheek, Vergo eats and dies of poisoning, this is the best scenario for Magellan .


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## DoctorLaw (Jan 2, 2014)

Vergo low dif if he learns about Magellan's poison early enough and goes Haki armor. Magellan really doesn't have any skills besides relying on poison, and Luffy beat that ass. But if not, Magellan beat Blackbeard and crew, had shichibukai running from him, and has a fruit hax enough to kill a top tier if he catches them slipping. Vergo dies but does massive damage to Magellan.


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## Ghost (Jan 2, 2014)

Slenderman said:


> That's almost like saying you think Ussop should be dead.



But he should.


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## Lance (Jan 2, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Who the hell hates Usopp?



Based on that one thread, almost half of us, some just hate him, others completely despise him. I just hate him. And that Poison Bastard more.


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## Gulbana (Jan 2, 2014)

I think Magellan takes this high diff.His Venom Demon form is strong enough to harm Vergo even in his full koka state.


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## Suzumebachi (Jan 2, 2014)

Where is the evidence that says Haki can protect someone from poison?


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## Rob (Jan 2, 2014)

Well, Haki generally counters DFs. 

I still find it hard to believe that people here think that Vergo can just lolTank Kinjite like nothing. 

Vergo, at _very best_, is getting a double KO, unless someone can tell me otherwise.


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## Suzumebachi (Jan 2, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Well, Haki generally counters DFs.



No it doesn't. It lets you bypass a Devil Fruit defense. A hit with Haki can injure Luffy, but it doesn't counter his power. He's still rubber, always rubber, and as far as we know, nothing can change that except for Blackbeard.

That doesn't prove that having Haki can protect you from a neurotoxin that can kill you with one drop on your skin. Haki can't even protect you from a guy who can punch hard enough.


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## Rob (Jan 2, 2014)

I could have been thinking of BB's fruit. 

Whatever. I'm all for Magellan winning this


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jan 2, 2014)

Suzumebachi said:


> Where is the evidence that says Haki can protect someone from poison?





Magellan's poison need to touch you(Your skin more accurately) . Haki keeps poison from touching you . Therefore Haki can help you against Magellan's poison . Also why people are not noticing the difference in status between Magellan and Vergo ? Magellan was getting hurt by Luffy in a straight foward manner and fight, if Vergo punches Magellan he'll be way more fucked up then with Luffy, he'll be able to resist 3 punches, Vergo is faster and stronger then Luffy pre TS, the Blackbeard argument is clearly idiot when Blackbeard fucked up Magellan so bad that he couldn't even move himself, Magellan had just one chance because of Blackbeard's recklessness and because of how his powers work(Poisoning bypasses normal durability) Blackbeard went out, now you put people on Magellan level against anyone in Teach's level and Magellan gets totally raped(People like Ace, who is way weaker then Magellan for example) so it was clearly Teach's PIS that everyone forgets to tell about how he got fucked when he actually went against Blackbeard . Vergo slices and dices here ... Ops, he's not a swordsman .


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jan 2, 2014)

_Does Magellan have the feats not to get blitzed like this


or get KO'ed by something like this 

He lost a lot of credibility after his encounter with Luffy so it's hard to gauge his ability to fight someone like Vergo. 
_


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## Zeus. (Jan 2, 2014)

Vergo mid diff.

Magellan was flinching and getting nearly doubled over by Pre-skip luffy's attacks who would get shitted on by Vergo.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jan 2, 2014)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _Does Magellan have the feats not to get blitzed like this
> 
> 
> or get KO'ed by something like this
> ...



Vergo doesn't need Oni Take, he uses a generic Shigan.


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jan 2, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Vergo doesn't need Oni Take, he uses a generic Shigan.


_
I wouldn't look down on Magellan to that extent, it's a bit to much to even attempt to be reasonable. _


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## Zeus. (Jan 2, 2014)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _
> I wouldn't look down on Magellan to that extent, it's a bit to much to even attempt to be reasonable. _



Yeah, his venom demon was apparently capable of destroying impel down itself, and his generic poison could easily melt stone.

Vergo has much better potency attacks however.


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## Suzumebachi (Jan 2, 2014)

> Haki keeps poison from touching you . Therefore Haki can help you against Magellan's poison .



Um, can you prove that? You're just saying it.



> He lost a lot of credibility after his encounter with Luffy so it's hard to gauge his ability to fight someone like Vergo.



How? He fucking destroyed Luffy. In fact, he destroyed everyone. No one beat him on panel. It took a bunch of level 6 guys ganging up on him to beat him. 




> Does Magellan have the feats not to get blitzed like this



yeh


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## Suzumebachi (Jan 2, 2014)

> Magellan was flinching and getting nearly doubled over by Pre-skip luffy's attacks who would get shitted on by Vergo.



That's not completely true and you know it. Power scaling doesn't really apply to One Piece.


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## Zeus. (Jan 2, 2014)

Suzumebachi said:


> That's not completely true and you know it. Power scaling doesn't really apply to One Piece.



...Yes it does. How does it not?

Magellan definitely did not "tank" luffy's attacks at all.


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## Suzumebachi (Jan 2, 2014)

> Magellan definitely did not "tank" luffy's attacks at all.



Luffy struck him with one Bazooka that didn't have lasting effect or seem to hinder Magellan's combat ability.

Then after being utterly defeated, most of his next encounter with him was spent running away from him.


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## Zeus. (Jan 2, 2014)

Suzumebachi said:


> Luffy struck him with one Bazooka that didn't have lasting effect or seem to hinder Magellan's combat ability.
> 
> Then after being utterly defeated, most of his next encounter with him was spent running away from him.



It doesn't really matter considering the guy fell to his knees iirc and hesitated for a moment, and it's not the same as tanking obviously.

Luffy ran away mainly because he didn't want to get poisoned until he didn't care and prepared to sacrifice his body.


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jan 2, 2014)

Suzumebachi said:


> Um, can you prove that? You're just saying it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_
True, that is a good reaction time feat. It might be possible for him to react in a similar manner to Vergo's attack, though arguably Law displayed better reaction time against Smoker in an instance where he was inches away from getting Jutte smashed and still could not react in time in this situation._
_
He showed signs of damage and pain after taking an attack from a version of Luffy with considerable less fire power though_

*Spoiler*: __ 








_What i will agree with is the fact that this panel does not at all seem to do him justice compared to his overall portrayal in Impel Down. So should we just dismiss it or take it as it is ? Because if we do take it as it is this panel shows him lacking in terms of enduring physical damage compared to the amount Vergo can dish with single named attacks._


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jan 2, 2014)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _
> I wouldn't look down on Magellan to that extent, it's a bit to much to even attempt to be reasonable. _



Shigan to the skull is not look down, is the opposite of looking down, since he has to finish faster to make the probability of getting poisoned smaller . 

Suzumebachi - I made my point, you make yours, I proved my point, or do you want proof of Blackbeard being reckless and arrogant ? If so:



Or do you want proof that Luffy was hurting Magellan ? If so:


 admits that the attack hurt)

 getting overpowered by G3)


Or do you want the proof that poison needs to touch the skin or be breathed ? Or do you want proof that Vergo > Pre TS Luffy in each and every stat ? Cause if it's either you just need to re-read One Piece, until now what I've seen from you saying is just that Haki does not bypass DF's, which is true, but Haki doesn't need to bypass DF's because of the defensive property of Busoshoku no Haki and just to finish my argument :



> That doesn't prove that having Haki can protect you from a neurotoxin that can kill you with one drop *on your skin*.





If you didn't understand at first I'll explain again : Haki provides an armor, something that makes the poison don't touch the skin, so Vergo is not falling for one Hydra or something .



> Haki can't even protect you from a guy who can punch hard enough.



Useful argument when the character that you're defending is on the same level as the other one, but in this case is clearly not as seen by the fact that G2 Pre TS Luffy could fight on a level above that of Magellan and by something(Probablity PIS or Luffy being tired) Luffy didn't use G2 when he got the Doru Doru help from Mr.3 but that would have been perfect because Luffy was handling Magellan like a champ while he was awake . 

So, instead of negging someone how about actually making an argument that is not just " Magellan wins because Haki can't bypass poison " ? Provide something .


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## Suzumebachi (Jan 2, 2014)

> ...Yes it does. How does it not?



It's like Crocodile said, "You never know how two abilities are going to match up."

And we've seen how a guy whose ability is to punch really hard matches up to Magellan. So it's not as cut and dry as people seem to make it out to be, based on "power scaling". 

Magellan gets his attacks stopped my Mr. 3, and yet he completely overwhelmed the Blackbeard Pirates AND a guy/girl who can fight on par with Bartholomew Kuma? 



> It might be possible for him to react in a similar manner to Vergo's attack, though arguably Law displayed better reaction time against Smoker in an instance where he was inches away from getting Jutte smashed and still could not react in time in this situation.



That's up for debate. Neither Smoker nor Law have been portrayed to be 'speed demons', per say.



> He showed signs of damage and pain after taking an attack from a version of Luffy with considerable less fire power though.



Less firepower than what? Luffy never fought Vergo or Law and was incapable of touching Smoker at that point. What are you comparing him to? Also, people like to sell pre-skip versions short, just by fact of them being pre-skip, but don't forget that Luffy was still a famous pirate worth 300 million who can do A LOT of damage with his fists. Vergo wasn't a super high tier. He beat Law because he had his heart.


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jan 2, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> *Shigan to the skull *is not look down, is the opposite of looking down, since he has to finish faster to make the probability of getting poisoned smaller .



_Did that happen to a single named character in One Piece ever ? I mean do you see something like this occurring and delivering the results you are expecting on anything but fodder ?_


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## Zeus. (Jan 2, 2014)

Suzumebachi said:


> It's like Crocodile said, "You never know how two abilities are going to match up."
> 
> And we've seen how a guy whose ability is to punch really hard matches up to Magellan. So it's not as cut and dry as people seem to make it out to be, based on "power scaling".
> 
> ...



Magellan's regular poison was not affecting Mr. 3's attacks, but his Venom demon was. His power is not really geared towards DC or potency, it's poison, lol.

BB and his crew were caught off guard and didn't even get a chance to fight Magellan during that point in time. Luffy was also able to knock down BB with a mere G2 pistol.

Ivankov did not show any injuries when he returned, so it's irrelevant. And Kuma was basically a generic pacifista at that point in time btw.


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jan 2, 2014)

Suzumebachi said:


> It's like Crocodile said, "You never know how two abilities are going to match up."
> 
> And we've seen how a guy whose ability is to punch really hard matches up to Magellan. So it's not as cut and dry as people seem to make it out to be, based on "power scaling".
> 
> ...



_For example it took the entire crew going all out to defeat a single Pacifista pre time skip while any M3 was capable of dishing enough fire power with single unnamed attacks post time skip to achieve similar results. Vergo was able to match Sanji's offensive strength while showcasing superior durability. His Oni Take destroyed Smokers CoA Hardened Jutte, KO'ed him, and had energy to spare that created a shock wave powerful enough to bend the walls of the SAD room. _


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jan 2, 2014)

Really stop trying Vergo is a better version of Pre TS Luffy with the power to coat himself from Magellan's poison .


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## Zeus. (Jan 2, 2014)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _For example it took the entire crew going all out to defeat a single Pacifista pre time skip while any M3 was capable of dishing enough fire power with single unnamed attacks post time skip to achieve similar results. Vergo was able to match Sanji's offensive strength while showcasing superior durability. His Oni Take destroyed Smokers CoA Hardened Jutte, KO'ed him, and had energy to spare that created a shock wave powerful enough to bend the walls of the SAD room. _



Pretty much this.


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## Suzumebachi (Jan 2, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> some shit



First of all, I've read One Piece, but you should still find new links. I don't know if it's because you're not in America or something, but mangafox links don't appear to show anything because "Sorry, its licensed, and not available."

Second of all, your argument hinges on the assumption that Haki can protect you from neurotoxin, when it's never been portrayed to protect from anything of the sort. 



> Magellan's regular poison was not affecting Mr. 3's attacks, but his Venom demon was. His power is not really geared towards DC or potency, it's poison, lol.



I'm aware. But his regular poison is enough to put most people down for the count.


> Luffy was also able to knock down BB with a mere G2 pistol.



Most people Blackbeard has fought have been able to knock him down easily. 



> Ivankov did not show any injuries when he returned, so it's irrelevant.



He was still beaten rather swiftly and could barely slow him down. Like it was said, "You never know how two powers are going to match up." If Magellan wasn't fighting a guy whose power it is to make super poison fighting antibodies, Ivankov would be dead.


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## Rob (Jan 2, 2014)

Luffy bringing Magellan to his knees is just a stupid argument. 

It was unexpected and Magellan presumably didn't even bother to try and make it less effective. 

He fucking Low-diffed Ivankov, for crying out loud. The same person that you guys group with Jimbei and the M3. 

Chloroform Ball also doesn't make Vergo's case any better.


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## Suzumebachi (Jan 2, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Luffy bringing Magellan to his knees is just a stupid argument.
> 
> It was unexpected and Magellan presumably didn't even bother to try and make it less effective.



Especially considering he no sold Luffy's next attack on the next page.


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## Zeus. (Jan 2, 2014)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _For example it took the entire crew going all out to defeat a single Pacifista pre time skip while any M3 was capable of dishing enough fire power with single unnamed attacks post time skip to achieve similar results. Vergo was able to match Sanji's offensive strength while showcasing superior durability. His Oni Take destroyed Smokers CoA Hardened Jutte, KO'ed him, and had energy to spare that created a shock wave powerful enough to bend the walls of the SAD room. _





Suzumebachi said:


> First of all, I've read One Piece, but you should still find new links. I don't know if it's because you're not in America or something, but mangafox links don't appear to show anything because "Sorry, its licensed, and not available."
> 
> Second of all, your argument hinges on the assumption that Haki can protect you from neurotoxin, when it's never been portrayed to protect from anything of the sort.
> 
> ...



Well yes without any use of haki, Magellan can very well put anyone down because all it is, is poison.

Magellan didn't beat BB and his crew. BB is easily capable of putting Magellan down.

Ivankov was shown with lots of poison on him, he didn't make poison anti-bodies, considering he showed no signs of fatigue later on (like luffy did during the war) and was even shown later returning to his kingdom no problem.


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## Zeus. (Jan 2, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Luffy bringing Magellan to his knees is just a stupid argument.
> 
> It was unexpected and Magellan presumably didn't even bother to try and make it less effective.
> 
> ...



Lol, the attack wasn't unexpected, he saw luffy prepping his bazooka. You can't ignore the fact that he nearly got doubled over.

He didn't low-diff Ivankov, he showed no signs of injury afterwards, and he only needed to stall.


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## Suzumebachi (Jan 2, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Chloroform Ball also doesn't make Vergo's case any better.



The man breathes poison as well.

*Spoiler*: __ 







Just by exhaling, releases a deadly poison. 


It's not as cut and dry as the typical "such and such roflstomps lol low dif" posts that pollute this board would suggest. And I'm not even arguing for a clear winner.


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## Rob (Jan 2, 2014)

@GodSmack 

By unexpected I didn't mean Luffy attacking. I meant the power behind the attack.


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## Suzumebachi (Jan 2, 2014)

GodSmack77 said:


> Lol, the attack wasn't unexpected, he saw luffy prepping his bazooka. You can't ignore the fact that he nearly got doubled



This is all a matter of opinion.



GodSmack77 said:


> He didn't low-diff Ivankov, he showed no signs of injury afterwards, and he only needed to stall.



You know what would have been a good way to stall Magellan? Defeating him. I feel like if he could have, he would. Again, "two powers", "how they match up". The power to cure poison is held by Ivankov. 



> Magellan didn't beat BB and his crew. BB is easily capable of putting Magellan down.



And as Magellan showed, he's capable of putting Blackbeard down as well.



> Ivankov was shown with lots of poison on him, he didn't make poison anti-bodies, considering he showed no signs of fatigue later on (like luffy did during the war) and was even shown later returning to his kingdom no problem.



Luffy didn't show fatigue in Impel Down because he was full of Energy Hormones. And those come from....yep, Ivankov.


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## Zeus. (Jan 2, 2014)

Suzumebachi said:


> This is all a matter of opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Saying he nearly got doubled isn't an opinion of mine..lol. 

It wouldn't really be stalling if Ivankov defeated him,  and they were in a hurry. 

And as I've said already, Magellan is capable of putting down anyone that doesn't have haki because his poison ignores durability.

Ivankov didn't show fatigue the whole war, and when he returned to his kingdom.


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## Suzumebachi (Jan 2, 2014)

> It wouldn't really be stalling if Ivankov defeated him, and they were in a hurry.



Then he should have stopped him from chasing them. If you can stop him from chasing you, there's no reason to stall him. You stall someone because you CAN'T stop them. I don't follow your argument anymore, if you're even making one. 



> And as I've said already, Magellan is capable of putting down anyone that doesn't have haki because his poison ignores durability.



You haven't proved that Haki can protect from his poison. You're just assuming that it does because it's a power used by "high tiers" and Magellan can't be a high tier because he's from before the time-skip. 

Why would the government appoint a guy whose power is ineffectual against people with Haki to be in charge of guarding the worst criminals in the world, which would presumedly include some Haki users?



> Ivankov didn't show fatigue the whole war, and when he returned to his kingdom.



He's the guy with the hormone powers that can control the body to his wishes. So it's not really an argument. Inazuma was totally KO'd until his big moment.


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## Zeus. (Jan 2, 2014)

Suzumebachi said:


> Then he should have stopped him from chasing them. I don't follow your argument anymore, if you're even making one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Re-read his skirmish with Magellan. The ward was pointing out that his time-wasting antics were boring him. Ivankov wasn't even being serious, as he showcased his "heavy make-up" to pretend Magellan's poison actually touched him. My point is that Ivankov wasn't being serious and there's nothing suggesting he'd lose to him.

I didn't say haki can "protect" from his poison. With enough efficiency the user can bypass Magellan's defense and be able to harm him without being affected afterwards (like luffy receiving poison wounds after hitting him). 

Why would the government appoint a guy that has no DF abilities and no signs of haki? (Vice warden Hannibal).

Ivankov stated he can't control his body as he wishes like that, he has limitations. The way he showed no signs of fatigue is evident that he did not use his hormone ability.


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## Rob (Jan 2, 2014)

IIRC, Iva got pretty fucking serious right before the Off-panel. 

Law has shown us that just having Haki isn't enough to protect you from any DF. 

You're not taking the Hannyabal thing seriously right? Oda screws around like that, for one. And secondly, Magellan probably proposed it, as he felt he needed to be punished for having failed. (He wanted to take his own life for his failure) In the end, it was probably Magellan who made the decision. We even saw what Magellan said to Hannyaball, right after owning the BB crew.


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## Zeus. (Jan 2, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> IIRC, Iva got pretty fucking serious right before the Off-panel.
> 
> Law has shown us that just having Haki isn't enough to protect you from any DF.
> 
> You're not taking the Hannyabal thing seriously right? Oda screws around like that, for one. And secondly, Magellan probably proposed it, as he felt he needed to be punished for having failed. (He wanted to take his own life for his failure) In the end, it was probably Magellan who made the decision. We even saw what Magellan said to Hannyaball, right after owning the BB crew.



Iva likes to do lots of gag scenes, lol.  

But Iva's goal was to stall, hence his order for Inazuma to cut the stairways down.

Yes that's why I pointed out that with efficient enough haki, you can fight Magellan.

I actually am taking Hannyabal seriously, considering he was able to take out Buggy and Mr. 3, and hold back lvl 6 escapees and luffy for a time. He likes to joke about his position for Warden a lot, similar to Iva and his pain sarcasms.


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## Rob (Jan 2, 2014)

I wish Oda clarified Hannyabal's rise to Warden a little more. 

That would clear things up regarding both him and Magellan.


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## Zeus. (Jan 2, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> I wish Oda clarified Hannyabal's rise to Warden a little more.
> 
> That would clear things up regarding both him and Magellan.



Well Magellan did admit that he's the only successor he's got, so it's likely Hannyabal has taken the position and Magellan was demoted, but then again, I recalled Sengoku wanting to keep him for the job.


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## convict (Jan 2, 2014)

Magellan is criminally underestimated because of that G2 punch. Magellan is definitely going to tank far far more in the future and he probably did against Iva, but obviously such a statement cannot hold weight in the battledome. He is a legit powerhouse in my opinion and one of the strongest high tiers. He isn't as strong as Doflamingo, but he is still beyond Vergo. His defeat of Ivankov without too much difficulty, even if the environment favored him, further indicates that he is beyond Vergo's level.


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## Zeus. (Jan 2, 2014)

convict said:


> Magellan is criminally underestimated because of that G2 punch. Magellan is definitely going to tank far far more in the future and he probably did against Iva, but obviously such a statement cannot hold weight in the battledome. He is a legit powerhouse in my opinion and one of the strongest high tiers. He isn't as strong as Doflamingo, but he is still beyond Vergo. His defeat of Ivankov without too much difficulty, even if the environment favored him, further indicates that he is beyond Vergo's level.



There's nothing that suggests that Magellan didn't get affected by luffy's attacks because he did, he just got used to them later on, and people are forgetting the fact that luffy's attacks were getting significantly WEAKER.

Magellan is a powerhouse and a badass, considering he doesn't have time to fuck around with a shichibukai and put him and his whole crew down with no talk.

Saying he's above Vergo because he apparently took down Ivankov is baseless considering we don't know how Ivankov compares with a vice admiral at all.


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## Rob (Jan 3, 2014)

It's not just that, that would put him above Vergo. 

The lethality of his poisons, and the way they mess around with the senses would be a major set back for any close range fighter such as Vergo.


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## Jad (Jan 3, 2014)

I reckon Magellan wins this, that poison is debilitating, and his _Hydra technique_ has constantly been shown to fire off very quickly.

In the anime though, I remember him flooding an entire hall way in poison, is that in the manga also?


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## Zeus. (Jan 3, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> It's not just that, that would put him above Vergo.
> 
> The lethality of his poisons, and the way they mess around with the senses would be a major set back for any close range fighter such as Vergo.



It would be a big problem if Vergo just heads in without haki, but with it, he'd win. 

The way that luffy first attacked Magellan and how he didn't take those attacks very lightly is safe enough to assume that Vergo, who is superior to Pre-skip luffy and has efficient CoO/CoA can handle Magellan.


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## Rob (Jan 3, 2014)

@Jad


He seemed to flood enough of it to completely drench the whole BB crew.


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## Rob (Jan 3, 2014)

GodSmack77 said:


> It would be a big problem if Vergo just heads in without haki, but with it, he'd win.
> 
> The way that luffy first attacked Magellan and how he didn't take those attacks very lightly is safe enough to assume that Vergo, who is superior to Pre-skip luffy and has efficient CoO/CoA can handle Magellan.



Luffy bringing Magellan down is no different from him knocking Blackbeard and Garp down. 

I love you GP pek


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## Zeus. (Jan 3, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Luffy bringing Magellan down is no different from him knocking Blackbeard and Garp down.
> 
> I love you GP pek



BB and is crew didn't expect Magellan to attack like that. He can tank WB's quake to the face and still end up conscious. 

Garp let luffy hit him, it's the same as Roger letting himself get executed.

Magellan's situation was different. He was expecting an attack. BB and his crew were basically "sucker-punched'.


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## Jad (Jan 3, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> @Jad
> 
> 
> He seemed to flood enough of it to completely drench the whole BB crew.



Actually meant to look for this:



But check this out, how is Vergo not getting poisoned by this:


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## Rob (Jan 3, 2014)

GodSmack77 said:


> BB and is crew didn't expect Magellan to attack like that. He can tank WB's quake to the face and still end up conscious.
> 
> Garp let luffy hit him, it's the same as Roger letting himself get executed.
> 
> Magellan's situation was different. He was expecting an attack. BB and his crew were basically "sucker-punched'.



Magellan falling to his knees is still the cause of some severe underestimation. 

He has been shown to hang with High tiers quite comfortably. 

With his hax and lethality, again, I have a hard time seeing Vergo win. 

It will almost always end in him getting drenched in Kinjizz.


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## Zeus. (Jan 3, 2014)

Magellan's Venom Demon would murk Vergo if not for his haki tbh.


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## Zeus. (Jan 3, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Magellan falling to his knees is still the cause of some severe underestimation.
> 
> He has been shown to hang with High tiers quite comfortably.
> 
> ...



Nothing in the manga implies he underestimated luffy. He only seemingly got used to the attacks because luffy was getting weaker and suffering from the poison.

What high tiers did he comfortably fight against? There's no one to compare Iva to, and the BB pirates are capable of beating him. Shiliew was stated to be on the same level as him.

Aside from his poison hax that ignores durability, Magellan winning is a stretch, when basic powerscaling and showings support the notion that he's stronger, but eh.


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## hehey (Jan 3, 2014)

Vergo can only win if he goes for the kill right of the bat (*shigan through the head* or something), if it becomes a drawn out fight he just cant win against Magellan's poison hax...


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## Rob (Jan 3, 2014)

GodSmack77 said:


> Nothing in the manga implies he underestimated luffy. He only seemingly got used to the attacks because luffy was getting weaker and suffering from the poison.
> 
> What high tiers did he comfortably fight against? There's no one to compare Iva to, and the BB pirates are capable of beating him. Shiliew was stated to be on the same level as him.
> 
> Aside from his poison hax that ignores durability, Magellan winning is a stretch, when basic powerscaling and showings support the notion that he's stronger, but eh.



Are you arguing that Magellan isn't a High, or High-High Tier? 
Jesus Christ 



> Magellan's Venom Demon would murk Vergo if not for his haki tbh.



Haki protects him from Kinjite now? 
oh


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## Zeus. (Jan 3, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Are you arguing that Magellan isn't a High, or High-High Tier?
> Jesus Christ
> 
> 
> ...



Lol Magellan isn't a high-high tier, much less a high tier. 

Admirals are high-tier material, and then the New World pirate captains/ HQ Vice Admirals, so on and so forth.

Magellan would be high mid-tier.


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## Rob (Jan 3, 2014)

GodSmack77 said:


> Lol Magellan isn't a high-high tier, much less a high tier.
> 
> Admirals are high-tier material, and then the New World pirate captains/ HQ Vice Admirals, so on and so forth.
> 
> Magellan would be high mid-tier.



lolwut :sanji

A High-Tier is Current M3, Vergo, Jimbei, Iva. 
A High-High Tier is Kuma, Vista, Hancock. 

I'm pretty sure his placement is just about right. 

An Admiral is Top Tier, here. Solid Top Tier, while a High-Top Tier would be people like Roger, WB, perhaps Dragon, perhaps Kong, and other Legends. 

But screw tiers. It's all fanfic shit anyway. 

I'm saying that Magellan is roughly between the two groups I named.


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## Zeus. (Jan 3, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> lolwut :sanji
> 
> A High-Tier is Current M3, Vergo, Jimbei, Iva.
> A High-High Tier is Kuma, Vista, Hancock.
> ...



It seems we differ in where we place our characters lol.

Alright I can agree with Current M3, Vergo, Jinbei, as high tiers (low ends). 

There's nobody to compare kuma to, since his limits in his ability will forever be unknown now, the only thing we can get from him is that he can get one-shotted by anyone as strong as the M3 and above.

Yeah Vista is around mid- high tier , same with most of the Div commanders( I acknowledge New world pirates and HQ marines high tier and above)

Hancock is an unknown, at least to me, but I'd go with high tier as well.(She only managed to hurt Smoker but no-sell pacifistas)

Admirals are the Very-High Tiers (How are they top tiers lol :T) imo.

Top Tiers are Yonkous, Gorosei (Random guess), Dragon, Kong, Mihawk

God Tiers are Pandaman, Roger, Garp (Prime), WB (Prime), Shiki (Prime),  because these guys seemingly stand out compared to the rest. 

I'm placing Rayleigh (Prime) and Scopper Gaban as either Top or God Tiers as well.

That's weird naming them top top tiers n shit 

I mostly agree with you though, but I'm still leaning towards high-mid tier for Magellan.


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## Zeus. (Jan 3, 2014)

^ I also forgot to add that Fleet Admirals like Sengoku (Prime) or Current Akainu should be considered Low Top Tier.


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## Rob (Jan 3, 2014)

We have a general idea of where to Place Kuma. 

One big set back as to where to accurately set him, is how his DF would react to Haki. 

It's not the point though. 

Hanock, Vista, Kuma > Magellan > Jimbei, Iva, Croc


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## Zeus. (Jan 3, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> We have a general idea of where to Place Kuma.
> 
> One big set back as to where to accurately set him, is how his DF would react to Haki.
> 
> ...



That's the thing, can his DF reflect haki? His ability to warp and BFR places him very high among other characters.

That's understandable. But I don't think we should jump to conclusions with Iva just yet, I feel like, as a basic right-hand man of Dragon, he's a lot stronger than what he's portrayed.


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## Rob (Jan 3, 2014)

I don't see Iva beating Brain Kuma. 

At all. 

Brain Kuma presumably had almost all knowledge on Iva. 

Considering Px-0 was just slightly weaker, if anything, Brain Kuma should just stomp.


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jan 3, 2014)

_Did Ivankov not say that "Brain Kuma" used to fear him when they faced each other? There wasn't really a point for him to lie in that situation._


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## tupadre97 (Jan 3, 2014)

Magellan gets blitzed and his whole skull bashed in in one hit. Low diff.


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## Magician (Jan 3, 2014)

> Busoshoku Haki allows the user to create a force similar to an invisible armor around themselves.[1]



People are forgetting that CoA creates an _armor_ around themselves. So I don't see how Magellan's poison outside of the tear gas stuff or whatever is going to affect Vergo.

I'm going Vergo, mid-high diff.


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## Rob (Jan 3, 2014)

tupadre97 said:


> Magellan gets blitzed and his whole skull bashed in in one hit. Low diff.



Tupaderp still has the troll in him


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 3, 2014)

If Vergo screws around, Magellan wins, but if Vergo pulls out his bamboo and goes full body CoA, he'll beat the hell out of Magellan. Haki counters devil fruit hax op.


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## Rob (Jan 3, 2014)

^
Does it? 
Clearly Vergo's haki protected him from Law's DF


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## Doma (Jan 3, 2014)

I give it to Magellan. I really don't see Vergo's CoA being powerful enough to stop Magellan's Kinjite. Not to mention he has poison you inhale and we don't know how that would affect a CoA user.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jan 4, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Magellan falling to his knees is still the cause of some severe underestimation.


Agreed. For example, Blackbeard fell over screaming when Luffy hit him. Then we saw him in the war, he took a bisento slash, a quake to the head, and a Buddha shockwave, yet he got back up for more.


RobLucciRapes said:


> I don't see Iva beating Brain Kuma.
> 
> At all.
> 
> ...


People forget Kuma has one of the most hax DFs in the OPverse and could send Iva somewhere like the heart of a volcano with one touch.


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## tupadre97 (Jan 4, 2014)

Doma said:


> I give it to Magellan. I really don't see Vergo's CoA being powerful enough to stop Magellan's Kinjite. Not to mention he has poison you inhale and we don't know how that would affect a CoA user.



Who cares if Magellan can use Kinjite he would just blitz him and kill him in one hit. Even if Magellan start off in Kinjite he'll just sacrifice and arm to bash his skull in like Luffy did. He wins easily.


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## Suzumebachi (Jan 4, 2014)

"Haki creates a shield from all df powers" is not an argument, especially since it's an unproven absolute, and people need to stop using it as if it were an argument.


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## Lord Melkor (Jan 4, 2014)

tupadre97 said:


> Who cares if Magellan can use Kinjite he would just blitz him and kill him in one hit. Even if Magellan start off in Kinjite he'll just sacrifice and arm to bash his skull in like Luffy did. He wins easily.



What is this crap!? Magellan has beaten Ivankov, Jimbei run from him and it was implied that it took multiple Level 6 prisoners to take Ivankov down.

I am not even sure if Vergo can beat Ivankov. Magellan should take this, especially with no knowledge, which may allow Magellan to one-shot with Hydra if he is serious.


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## Rob (Jan 4, 2014)

Tupaderp is Tupaderpin.


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## tanman (Feb 17, 2014)

Vergo wins.
In base, he's a ranged fighter. Hardened, he can likely take the damage Magellan is dishing out and respond in kind. He falls shortly after Magellan is defeated.


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